# Anyone Got Denied Wyndham Cancellation Within Rescission Period?



## TSnewbie2017 (Apr 26, 2017)

Hi there,
Long story short - purchased Discovery Points thru PayPal Credit on April 11th in Las Vegas. 
The 5th calendar day after signing happened to be Sunday Easter. So the only option I had to use Click-and-Ship label USPS Priority & drop to the mail box that day. Wyndham got my letter on Wed morning and informed of denial - stated contract date April 11, postmark April 16th and it was not within 5 calendar day after sale period. Is it a mistake in denial? Anybody was in the same situation? I already reopened case, waiting for review....Just curiosity, if my chances are ok or too slim?


----------



## 55plus (Apr 26, 2017)

How many days did you have to rescind? I believe it varies by state and I think it's business day so Easter Sunday should not have counted. I may be wrong on that.


----------



## TSnewbie2017 (Apr 26, 2017)

5 calendar days till midnight after sale. Nevada law doesn't appreciate business days, weekend or holidays. so my only choice was rely on luck and the mood of rescission specialist.


----------



## nicemann (Apr 26, 2017)

In Nevada, you may cancel, by written notice, the contract of sale for a timeshare purchase up until midnight of the fifth calendar day following the date you signed the contract (Nev. Rev. Stat. § 119A.410(1)).

So yeah it looks like calendar days not business days.  Since it is not officialy post marked till they pick it up not sure if you will be able to fight back.


----------



## 55plus (Apr 26, 2017)

Does the purchase day count as one of the 5 days to rescind. If so, that's the reason for the denial.


----------



## TSnewbie2017 (Apr 26, 2017)

it clearly states After sale so Sale day counts as Zero. Priority mail is acceptable per law. I have receipt printed that came with my label date Shipped on April 16th. And I have no control of post office manipulations after drop off...


----------



## nicemann (Apr 26, 2017)

morrisjim said:


> Does the purchase day count as one of the 5 days to rescind. If so, that's the reason for the denial.



NRS 119A.410  Right to cancel contract of sale.

      1.  The purchaser of a time share may cancel, by written notice, the contract of sale until midnight of the fifth calendar day following the date of execution of the contract. The contract of sale must include a statement of this right.

      2.  The right of cancellation may not be waived. Any attempt by the developer to obtain a waiver results in a contract which is voidable by the purchaser.

      3.  The notice of cancellation may be delivered personally to the developer, sent by certified mail, return receipt requested, or sent by express, priority or recognized overnight delivery service, with proof of service, to the business address of the developer.

      4.  The developer shall, within 20 days after receipt of the notice of cancellation, return all payments made by the purchaser.

So yes you did send it via priority mail but it was not scanned into the system till the 17th.  Tracking number probably says "Pre-Shipment Info Sent to USPS, USPS Awaiting Item" on the 16th and they will argue it was not sent on the 5th business day by midnight.  Officially it was not in the mail system till the 17th in USPS eyes.  You can try to fight it but probably will not win.


----------



## vacationhopeful (Apr 26, 2017)

USPS Certified Mail is what is accepted and recognized legally (in US) as to being DATE OF MAILING for legal notification. Else, you have to accept the DATE OF DELIVERY ...which without a proof of delivery becomes WHAT the receiver acknowledges.

Don't know where you are located .. but I know where and when nearby USPS post offices within driving distance of my home and hours open with window service ... 7 days a week (although hours could have changed with Sunday being deleted).

If you had MAILED the "certified letter" on Monday ... and Sunday was the last day in the rescind window, you might have had a 'possible exception' as the post office was NOT open on Sunday .. and Monday was the next business day.

I live with 15 miles of a MAJOR metro area ... 5th largest in US. If you live in an area with great distance to ANY Sunday post office ... you might have gotten an 'exception' to the 1 day delay .. if mailed via their stated method.


A Discovery Package is small buy in for around $3000. With good planning in using the points planning for efficiency .. no FRI & SAT stays, smallest unit for family size (Studio units sleep up to 4 at most resorts) .. you could get 2 or 3+ short stay vacation value for your $3000 spent.

This is a Discovery Package... which REQUIRES the 'owner' to attend a sales presentation while staying at the resort. Know the time length required, pull out the cell phone, set the alarm for THAT many minutes, ask almost NO QUESTIONS and let the sales guy ROLL thru his spiel. Remember, in their eyes, make "nice talk" is NOT sales time .. which is WHY you set the timer and state THIS IS MY REQUIRED time for attendance to the sales person.... and have a COPY from the contract to PROVE this point.

It will annoy them AND take away, you being TRAPPED forever at the sales table.


----------



## Braindead (Apr 26, 2017)

Would Discovery count as a timeshare purchase?


----------



## TSnewbie2017 (Apr 26, 2017)

The contract states must be "sent" not specifically "postmarked"... Not specified that only via certified and law allows priority mail. The question is when the mail enters the dropped box it is legally "sent" as it is physically sent indeed. If law states by midnight than under circumstances why law takes that same right from you and cuts the period automatically just because there was nobody working on holiday who could stamped your stuff?


----------



## vacationhopeful (Apr 26, 2017)

Legal is legal ... by practice and court rulings.

Legal notice for a contract is "Certified Mail" which SETS and PROVES the date of mailing. Sent any other method ... including carriage pigeon, is the delivery date accepted by the receiving party.

Also, when sending a Certified Mail letter ... you need to further send a copy Regular Mail at the same time also. Done this way ... YOU SENT LEGAL NOTICE.

And YES ... I have had NJ State Superior Court judges rule that I have sent valid legal notices in the eyes of the court. And this is the generally accepted legal notice ... along with a legal notices can be posted on the door of residences and/or place of employment which you can prove.

Yes, I have had Legal Notices placed on doors of residences and businesses ... proof is the County Sheriff does that service and costs a bit more the Certified Mail with Return Receipt PLUS a Regular Mail copy sent at the same time ... and noted on the lower part of each copy.

Just so it is clear as to what level a Superior Court judge is in NJ ... those are judges who can preside over DEATH PENATLY cases. And appointed to the judgeship for life with required retirement at age 75.

Added: I am not a lawyer. My experiences is my experiences only and I am NOT an officer of the court or am offering any legal advice. Consult a licensed lawyer in your state for their advice and legal opinion.


----------



## TSnewbie2017 (Apr 26, 2017)

I started the thread just to see if anyone was in the same situation as a customer and got it resolved in customers favor. It's disappointing to see that the law loopholes are in favor of "***holes" in majority of cases and regular people who are supposed to be protected by the same law have no chances.


----------



## TSnewbie2017 (Apr 26, 2017)

Braindead said:


> Would Discovery count as a timeshare purchase?


Good question! There is no deed or is it? But the contract of sale looks the same. In fact the salesman said it's preprinted and half of stuff does not apply to Discovery...But I guess he said a lot of stuff that's lie...Even mentioned that we cannot back out...And call us in 5 days for reservations since it takes 5 days to register info in system.


----------



## ecwinch (Apr 26, 2017)

I don't think it is a timeshare purchase, so recession rights probably dont apply. It is more a "rental" of some points allowing you to book usage at Wyndham resorts. More like buying a hotel certificate for usage. But I dont see how Discovery conveys any other rights as defined in the timeshare plan that Wyndham registered in NV.

NRS 119A.140  “Time share” defined.  “Time share” means the right to use and occupy a unit on a recurrent periodic basis according to an arrangement allocating this right among various owners whether or not there is an additional charge to the owner for occupying the unit.

Chapter 645 of NRS.

      1.  Unless the method of disposition is adopted to evade the provisions of this chapter or chapter 645 of NRS, the provisions of this chapter, except subsection 4, do not apply to:

      ....
      (f) The sale or transfer of the right to use and occupy a unit on a periodic basis which recurs over a period of less than 5 years.


----------



## TSnewbie2017 (Apr 26, 2017)

ecwinch said:


> I don't think it is a timeshare purchase. It is more a "rental" of some points allowing you to book usage at Wyndham resorts. More like buying a hotel certificate for usage. But I dont see how Discovery conveys any other rights as defined in the timeshare plan that Wyndham registered in NV.
> NRS 119A.140  “Time share” defined.  “Time share” means the right to use and occupy a unit on a recurrent periodic basis according to an arrangement allocating this right among various owners whether or not there is an additional charge to the owner for occupying the unit.
> 
> Chapter 645 of NRS.
> ...


So that being said are we under the same Nevada timeshare rescission law or ??? If you say rescission does not apply why we had that 5 day statement in contract?


----------



## wjappraise (Apr 26, 2017)

Did you pay with a credit card?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## djohn75087 (Apr 26, 2017)

ecwinch said:


> I don't think it is a timeshare purchase, so recession rights probably dont apply. It is more a "rental" of some points allowing you to book usage at Wyndham resorts. More like buying a hotel certificate for usage. But I dont see how Discovery conveys any other rights as defined in the timeshare plan that Wyndham registered in NV.
> 
> NRS 119A.140  “Time share” defined.  “Time share” means the right to use and occupy a unit on a recurrent periodic basis according to an arrangement allocating this right among various owners whether or not there is an additional charge to the owner for occupying the unit.
> 
> ...



Rescission rights definitely apply to discovery contracts. My first dealing with Wyndham had me buying a discovery package and rescinding it after looking on Ebay and deciding to buy resale.


----------



## TSnewbie2017 (Apr 27, 2017)

wjappraise said:


> Did you pay with a credit card?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


Paid with PayPal Credit. Basically they just used line of credit. Just read somewhere yesterday that PayPal Credit also has cool off period 14 days which expired for me already.


----------



## TSnewbie2017 (Apr 27, 2017)

Anyone tried successfully to win thru BBB complain? I see lots of cases open there against Wyndham.


----------



## wjappraise (Apr 27, 2017)

I would suggest simply writing another letter "appealing" their decision.  Include a "cc" line st bottom indicating you are sending a copy to ARDA.  And dispute the charge on the credit card. 

Include in your letter that you had in fact dropped the letter off to the post office on Sunday, giving the time you did so.  State if they have questions, they can contact the Post Office and look at the surveillance videos to see you dropping it off (just to make the point ridiculously).


----------



## maddog497 (Apr 27, 2017)

TSnewbie2017 said:


> Paid with PayPal Credit. Basically they just used line of credit. Just read somewhere yesterday that PayPal Credit also has cool off period 14 days which expired for me already.



I would still contact PayPal also.  Although your 14 days to notify them has expired you can send them copies of the response from Wyndham
 proving you did in fact rescind (or attempted to) and that was well within the 14 days.  It may be a long shot but you will never know if you don't at try.


----------



## bnoble (Apr 27, 2017)

I suspect that if you read the contract very carefully, you will find that postmark date is defined to be the date of rescission. And, because your letter was postmarked on the sixth calendar day, you were technically late.

The good news is that this is just a Discovery package, not a full purchase, so the amount of $ you are out is small. Even better, the Discovery program isn't a half-bad value all in all.


----------



## TSnewbie2017 (Apr 27, 2017)

bnoble said:


> I suspect that if you read the contract very carefully, you will find that postmark date is defined to be the date of rescission. And, because your letter was postmarked on the sixth calendar day, you were technically late.
> 
> The good news is that this is just a Discovery package, not a full purchase, so the amount of $ you are out is small. Even better, the Discovery program isn't a half-bad value all in all.


The contract states "send" nothing mentioned postmark. The letter of deny states my Postmark date was April 16th (which is in fact the 5th day). Will see how the appeal process goes, waiting for a week already for update.


----------



## nicemann (Apr 27, 2017)

TSnewbie2017 said:


> The contract states "send" nothing mentioned postmark. The letter of deny states my Postmark date was April 16th (which is in fact the 5th day). Will see how the appeal process goes, waiting for a week already for update.



It doesn't hurt to try.  Like it's been mentioned Discovery is not too bad of a deal so if you get stuck with it, make the most out of it.  Not sure what price you paid for yours and how many points though.  It was recently posted someone got 400k in points for $3,000.  That would make the price per points $7.50 per thousand and not sure if you get any "VIP" benefits with it.


----------



## 55plus (Apr 27, 2017)

Postmark relates to a date officially received by a post office. If the 5th day falls on Easter Sunday, or any Sunday for that matter, how is it possible to have something postmarked? 

At least you don't have tens of thousands of dollars tied up in something you could have purchased for several hundred dollars. I'm just saying. . .


----------



## TSnewbie2017 (Apr 27, 2017)

nicemann said:


> It doesn't hurt to try.  Like it's been mentioned Discovery is not too bad of a deal so if you get stuck with it, make the most out of it.  Not sure what price you paid for yours and how many points though.  It was recently posted someone got 400k in points for $3,000.  That would make the price per points $7.50 per thousand and not sure if you get any "VIP" benefits with it.


For the record, we paid about 3600 for 400K points if paid in full, if we take our time w/ Paypal credit & pay interest it will end up 4700. Anyway my big suspicion is like many people commented I won't be able to reserve anything good on the time I want. If even I'm willing to overpay for prime time lets say NY eve, my account online states I can travel starting January 1st? Also it was supposed to be for 20 months period. And I only see one year timeframe to use...Salesman stated I could use immediately and even stretch to 22 months timeframe, etc. Like many other lies he said...Very disappointed with customer service over the phone and the whole system of communication in general. It truly says a lot about how the company is doing business.


----------



## bnoble (Apr 27, 2017)

morrisjim said:


> Postmark relates to a date officially received by a post office. If the 5th day falls on Easter Sunday, or any Sunday for that matter, how is it possible to have something postmarked?


It doesn't matter. Nevada uses calendar days so even if the fifth day is a day the post office is closed, it counts.
http://www.arda.org/uploadedFiles/A...s_Call_Out_Boxes/RescissionPeriodsNov2010.pdf



TSnewbie2017 said:


> For the record, we paid about 3600 for 400K points if paid in full, if we take our time w/ Paypal credit & pay interest it will end up 4700. Anyway my big suspicion is like many people commented I won't be able to reserve anything good on the time I want.


This sounds awfully familiar....


----------



## nicemann (Apr 27, 2017)

TSnewbie2017 said:


> For the record, we paid about 3600 for 400K points if paid in full, if we take our time w/ Paypal credit & pay interest it will end up 4700.



Wyndham and Paypal must have a great partnership.  They really love to push their financing.


----------



## 55plus (Apr 27, 2017)

nicemann said:


> Wyndham and Paypal must have a great partnership.  They really love to push their financing.



It's Win Win for them. Wyndham has a way to secure the down payment and generate tens of thousands of dollars once the rescind period has passed and PayPal generates interest payments if the purchaser doesn't pay it off right away. Win Win. . .


----------



## TSnewbie2017 (Apr 27, 2017)

maddog497 said:


> I would still contact PayPal also.  Although your 14 days to notify them has expired you can send them copies of the response from Wyndham
> proving you did in fact rescind (or attempted to) and that was well within the 14 days.  It may be a long shot but you will never know if you don't at try.


Interesting fact, but PayPal Credit stated they are the 3rd party and it's between us and Wyn to dispute. So no case was open. Then they simply transferred me to Wyn rep and surprisingly Wyn picked up the phone fast (not like I had to wait 50 minutes the other day to get a hold of someone alive there)...Wyn rep said there was no record i opened an appeal case a week ago....(sounds like a deadend?) Then after putting me on hold a few times and discussing the situation with someone else said: The 1st day starts on the day of signature... Now I'm really confused, sounds like they don;t even know what they are doing and how to read the law. ;(


----------



## davidvel (Apr 27, 2017)

TSnewbie2017 said:


> The contract states "send" nothing mentioned postmark. The letter of deny states my Postmark date was April 16th (which is in fact the 5th day). Will see how the appeal process goes, waiting for a week already for update.





TSnewbie2017 said:


> Interesting fact, but PayPal Credit stated they are the 3rd party and it's between us and Wyn to dispute. So no case was open. Then they simply transferred me to Wyn rep and surprisingly Wyn picked up the phone fast (not like I had to wait 50 minutes the other day to get a hold of someone alive there)...Wyn rep said there was no record i opened an appeal case a week ago....(sounds like a deadend?) Then after putting me on hold a few times and discussing the situation with someone else said: The 1st day starts on the day of signature... Now I'm really confused, sounds like they don;t even know what they are doing and how to read the law. ;(


*Yes, they are wrong. *If you have a letter from them acknowledging that you sent it on the 16th, and the contract was signed on the 11th, then you sent the rescission within the 5 days. I have never heard any court interpret calendar days the way they claim.


----------



## wjappraise (Apr 27, 2017)

bnoble said:


> It doesn't matter. Nevada uses calendar days so even if the fifth day is a day the post office is closed, it counts.
> http://www.arda.org/uploadedFiles/A...s_Call_Out_Boxes/RescissionPeriodsNov2010.pdf
> 
> 
> This sounds awfully familiar....



It does sound familiar.  The poster who got such a "great deal" that Wyndham was screwing you and me. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## frankf3 (Apr 27, 2017)

wjappraise said:


> It does sound familiar.  The poster who got such a "great deal" that Wyndham was screwing you and me.



  Nice catch!   I forgot about that...


----------



## uscav8r (Apr 27, 2017)

wjappraise said:


> It does sound familiar.  The poster who got such a "great deal" that Wyndham was screwing you and me.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk



What is really odd, it that the OP started the Wyndham-is-screwing-its-owners thread on 4/23... a full week AFTER Wyndham supposedly received her rescission letter on 4/16. AND she claimed in that post to have bought on 4/20. 

When I opened the current thread, I thought the OP had argued and rant d her way past the deadline. It turns out she had already rescinded and was rejected before she posted the other thread. 

Something strange is afoot at the Circle K. 

"How is Wyndham not Screwing their Owners with new Offers?"

https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink?sh...-Owners-with-new-Offers?.254804/&share_type=t


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## TSnewbie2017 (Apr 27, 2017)

uscav8r said:


> What is really odd, it that the OP started the Wyndham-is-screwing-its-owners thread on 4/23... a full week AFTER Wyndham supposedly received her rescission letter on 4/16. AND she claimed in that post to have bought on 4/20.
> 
> When I opened the current thread, I thought the OP had argued and rant d her way past the deadline. It turns out she had already rescinded and was rejected before she posted the other thread.
> 
> ...


OMG! LOL! Thanks for sharing that link....At some point I started getting lost in conversation and now I understand why...you guys think I am TSGuest2017 but I am not, I just registered yesterday though my Screen name looks similar, I am a different customer TSnewbie2017 (by coincidence with the same Discovery product LOL)...How funny...Anyway, my thread is a bit different. Looking for positive stories who abled to fight Wyn in rescission battle successfully. Thanks again for participation.


----------



## uscav8r (Apr 27, 2017)

TSnewbie2017 said:


> OMG! LOL! Thanks for sharing that link....At some point I started getting lost in conversation and now I understand why...you guys think I am TSGuest2017 but I am not, I just registered yesterday though my Screen name looks similar, I am a different customer TSnewbie2017 (by coincidence with the same Discovery product LOL)...How funny...Anyway, my thread is a bit different. Looking for positive stories who abled to fight Wyn in rescission battle successfully. Thanks again for participation.



Like I said. Something strange is afoot! 




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## TSnewbie2017 (Apr 27, 2017)

uscav8r said:


> Like I said. Something strange is afoot!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That's a good example that the salesmen use the same scripts to brainwash the customers... "word by word" LOL.... i wonder if she bought in Vegas as well or some other state


----------



## bnoble (Apr 28, 2017)

TSnewbie2017 said:


> TSGuest2017 but I am not, I just registered yesterday though my Screen name looks similar, I am a different customer TSnewbie2017 (by coincidence with the same Discovery product LOL)...How funny.


Wow, what are the odds?


----------



## davidvel (Apr 28, 2017)

bnoble said:


> Wow, what are the odds?


I wonder if the IPs are similar? Now that would be a coincidence!


----------



## TSnewbie2017 (Apr 29, 2017)

davidvel said:


> I wonder if the IPs are similar? Now that would be a coincidence!


Not only different IP but different opinions.


----------



## ravenna (May 3, 2017)

I was in a similar situation with a TS purchase last month (Hilton GVC).  I was one day late with my postmark and they strung me along, but since then I have been told - after phone calls, subtle threats of a lawsuit, and persistence - that my rescission is being honored. 

You have a decent argument to make:  you DID mail within five calendar days but Day 5 was a Sunday and a major holiday so you couldn't get the postmark!  You might lose that battle in court but you can threaten to put up a spirited fight ,  and it's possible that just the threat might make them back down.

If you have big money on the line. I suggest making a polite but firm fuss by calling to inquire about your rescission....every day... And mentioning your lawyer.... Every day!.  If you can cancel your down payment (Is that possible on PayPal?) it may help.  My thinking is that if they have no money from you and just the prospect of a difficult customer and a potential lawsuit, they may give up on you.  Good luck.


----------



## TSnewbie2017 (May 5, 2017)

ravenna said:


> I was in a similar situation with a TS purchase last month (Hilton GVC).  I was one day late with my postmark and they strung me along, but since then I have been told - after phone calls, subtle threats of a lawsuit, and persistence - that my rescission is being honored.
> 
> You have a decent argument to make:  you DID mail within five calendar days but Day 5 was a Sunday and a major holiday so you couldn't get the postmark!  You might lose that battle in court but you can threaten to put up a spirited fight ,  and it's possible that just the threat might make them back down.
> 
> If you have big money on the line. I suggest making a polite but firm fuss by calling to inquire about your rescission....every day... And mentioning your lawyer.... Every day!.  If you can cancel your down payment (Is that possible on PayPal?) it may help.  My thinking is that if they have no money from you and just the prospect of a difficult customer and a potential lawsuit, they may give up on you.  Good luck.


Thanks for encouraging. Not sure what was your TS company, but for Wyndham it's almost impossible to get thru. There is no email, there is no phone numbers disclosed. The only one you call for reservation and then they transfer you somewhere else and somewhere else and after 45 min - 1 hour on hold on the phone you are able to speak to a live person in owner care department. The rep still doesn't give you the number to call directly next time and never follows up. I was told last week that it should be resolved in a week by different department which there is no way to call directly and owner care reps has connection. So the owner care rep has no decision power whatsoever. Anyway, more than one week passed today I wanted to follow up and their whole system is down, website down whole day, owner care doesn't have access to anything at this point and they don't know when it's gonna be fixed....What kind of service is that? GUYS, DO YOU THINK I SHOULD FILE COMPLAINT AT BBB?


----------



## ecwinch (May 5, 2017)

TSnewbie2017 said:


> GUYS, DO YOU THINK I SHOULD FILE COMPLAINT AT BBB?



You certainly should. Just dont expect it to be the silver bullet that resolves this. Wyndham has a BBB rating of "C" and is not an accredited BBB organization.


----------



## jhoug (May 5, 2017)

I agree with the poster.  The 5th calendar day, is the 5th day AFTER signing, which is the 16th. 
The way to get a postmark on those days if Sunday or Holiday is to use the Self-service machine at the post office which is still available even when the Post Office window is closed. 
You can send by Priority mail and then you have tracking, also the machine asks if you need more insurance. 
You print your label, apply it to the package yourself and drop it in their bin.


----------

