# Aruba “event week” in full swing



## rickxylon (Jan 21, 2018)

Major incident at the OC hot tub today. At least 5 security guards with unruly kids. 1 from SC refused to leave so they wouldn’t let any more people in. Not sure how it ended as it became too dark to see. Last night kids were jumping from the top of the hot tub into the pools.


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## davidvel (Jan 21, 2018)

rickxylon said:


> Major incident at the OC hot tub today. At least 5 security guards with unruly kids. 1 from SC refused to leave so they wouldn’t let any more people in. Not sure how it ended as it became too dark to see. Last night kids were jumping from the top of the hot tub into the pools.


Before this thread spins out of control into prohibited areas, I want to add that my blood boils every year I hear about this entourage. They're like chair hogs on crack and steroids. So sad that such a group of people can exist and be allowed back each year ruining the hard earned vacations of others, while they demand special services and dispensations.


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## mjkkb2 (Jan 22, 2018)

Another example of profits trumping common sense.  This 'event" would have never happened if the HOA was controlled by the owners...So sad.  Thinking about possibly taking a trip next week.  Anyone knows if this thing will be done by next weekend....1/27/18?


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## bazzap (Jan 22, 2018)

I can understand that MVC want to maximise their revenue and profits.
At the same time, I regularly read about Aruba owners increasingly finding it difficult or impossible to book their “home” weeks, even 13 months out around this time of year, so I would have thought occupancy levels should be high anyway?
Without them going into any detail, I do believe at the very least that MVC could highlight on the Owners website, for those looking to book at this time each year, that there will be a very large group staying 
(in the same way as they highlight any facilities closures, construction or maintenance work)


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## davidvel (Jan 22, 2018)

bazzap said:


> I can understand that MVC want to maximise their revenue and profits.
> At the same time, I regularly read about Aruba owners increasingly finding it difficult or impossible to book their “home” weeks, even 13 months out around this time of year, so I would have thought occupancy levels should be high anyway?
> Without them going into any detail, I do believe at the very least that MVC could highlight on the Owners website, for those looking to book at this time each year, that there will be a very large group staying
> (in the same way as they highlight any facilities closures, construction or maintenance work)


There are probably large groups staying at resorts at various times of the year, though maybe not as big and organized as this one. The problem is not thst it is a large group, the problem is that it is an unruly, uncouth mob that refuses to follow rules, and insists on making the lives of others miserable.

I doubt  you could get Marriott to make such an announcement, as they are too afraid in this PC world of "offending" the perpetrators, who would likely claim discrimination. Also, it would expose their inability to properly deal with the problem.


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## bazzap (Jan 22, 2018)

davidvel said:


> There are probably large groups staying at resorts at various times of the year, though maybe not as big and organized as this one. The problem is not thst it is a large group, the problem is that it is an unruly, uncouth mob that refuses to follow rules, and insists on making the lives of others miserable.
> 
> I doubt  you could get Marriott to make such an announcement, as they are too afraid in this PC world of "offending" the perpetrators, who would likely claim discrimination. Also, it would expose their inability to properly deal with the problem.


I understand and that is why I was suggesting not going into any detail, just saying that there would be a large group.
To be honest, even if it were a very reasonable, perfectly behaved group I would not be too happy at any resort finding we were one of the few staying amongst many hundreds of people who were together  in one party.


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## Old Hickory (Jan 22, 2018)

rickxylon said:


> Major incident at the OC hot tub today. At least 5 security guards with unruly kids. 1 from SC refused to leave so they wouldn’t let any more people in. Not sure how it ended as it became too dark to see. Last night kids were jumping from the top of the hot tub into the pools.




What?  Those kids should have had helmets on.


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## pedro47 (Jan 22, 2018)

Are the kids guests at the resort and where are their parents or guardians ?


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## jimf41 (Jan 22, 2018)

We experienced this group in 2002. We will never return to Aruba again because of them.


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## SueDonJ (Jan 22, 2018)

davidvel said:


> There are probably large groups staying at resorts at various times of the year, though maybe not as big and organized as this one. The problem is not thst it is a large group, the problem is that it is an unruly, uncouth mob that refuses to follow rules, and insists on making the lives of others miserable.
> 
> I doubt  you could get Marriott to make such an announcement, as they are too afraid in this PC world of "offending" the perpetrators, who would likely claim discrimination. Also, it would expose their inability to properly deal with the problem.



I doubt Marriott would make any kind of announcement because they're active facilitators of just how much this group takes over the property and ruins other guests' vacations.  Over the years there have been other resorts on the island that "uninvited" the group so if Marriott wanted to do it they could.  But they don't; instead they accommodate the group by allowing them to bring outside catering facilities on-property in a section of the parking lot, allowing them to take over other common areas for their group-only activities, hiring extra housekeeping people to clean up after the slobs, not intervening when negative behavior of group members impacts other guests or when ACTUAL SECURITY RISKS are occurring, etc.

After all these years I'm convinced that the bottom line is, this group is the Goose That Laid The Golden Egg for MVC.  If I were an owner who stumbled on this fiasco Marriott would be paying me a hefty portion of their obscene profit because I'd fight them through every possible means.  There is just too much history documented on social media for this to keep happening year after year after year after year ...

This situation is IMO the absolute worst stain on Marriott Vacation Club, and that's coming from someone who loves her timeshares and is usually able to defend Marriott when criticisms are offered.


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## SueDonJ (Jan 22, 2018)

_*Now as Moderator:*_  PLEASE DO NOT MAKE THE TUG MODERATORS' LIVES MORE DIFFICULT BY LODGING COMPLAINTS ABOUT THIS THREAD IN THE THREAD.  Such posts will be treated the same as any others which violate the TUG Rules - they'll be removed and the posters may face a suspension of posting privileges.

It may not seem like I've been around very much (big life changes are interfering!) but be assured that I'm reading every day and will monitor this thread very closely.  All of the moderators know the TUG history of how these threads can degenerate.  If you have an issue please click the "Report" button and every one of us will immediately be notified.


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## SueDonJ (Jan 22, 2018)

mjkkb2 said:


> Another example of profits trumping common sense.  This 'event" would have never happened if the HOA was controlled by the owners...So sad.  Thinking about possibly taking a trip next week.  Anyone knows if this thing will be done by next weekend....1/27/18?



Check out the first post in the "Event Weeks" sticky thread, looks like you may hit the tail end of it.


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## rickxylon (Jan 22, 2018)

mjkkb2 said:


> Another example of profits trumping common sense.  This 'event" would have never happened if the HOA was controlled by the owners...So sad.  Thinking about possibly taking a trip next week.  Anyone knows if this thing will be done by next weekend....1/27/18?


Yes, most of this group will leave starting Thursday.


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## Sunbum (Jan 22, 2018)

I heard last year the "group" had to cut a 6 figure check to cover the extra costs of staff and damages and were happy to do it.


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## JIMinNC (Jan 22, 2018)

jimf41 said:


> We experienced this group in 2002. We will never return to Aruba again because of them.



From what I've read of the problems this situation creates for guests in Aruba, I can see why you would never want to return during that time (and when we go, we will avoid it for sure), but why would that make you not want to return to Aruba at some other time of the year?


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## davidvel (Jan 22, 2018)

SueDonJ said:


> I doubt Marriott would make any kind of announcement because they're active facilitators of just how much this group takes over the property and ruins other guests' vacations.  Over the years there have been other resorts on the island that "uninvited" the group so if Marriott wanted to do it they could.  But they don't; instead they accommodate the group by allowing them to bring outside catering facilities on-property in a section of the parking lot, allowing them to take over other common areas for their group-only activities, hiring extra housekeeping people to clean up after the slobs, not intervening when negative behavior of group members impacts other guests or when ACTUAL SECURITY RISKS are occurring, etc.
> 
> After all these years I'm convinced that the bottom line is, this group is the Goose That Laid The Golden Egg for MVC.  If I were an owner who stumbled on this fiasco Marriott would be paying me a hefty portion of their obscene profit because I'd fight them through every possible means.  There is just too much history documented on social media for this to keep happening year after year after year after year ...
> 
> This situation is IMO the absolute worst stain on Marriott Vacation Club, and that's coming from someone who loves her timeshares and is usually able to defend Marriott when criticisms are offered.


Yes, I meant to say all that too!


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## pedro47 (Jan 23, 2018)

Are these kids or young college students? How can kids  write a six figure check to cover damages and other related costs?


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## jimf41 (Jan 23, 2018)

pedro47 said:


> Are these kids or young college students? How can kids  write a six figure check to cover damages and other related costs?



No this is a family group. Numerous families with common relationship that travel together at the same time. The groups adult participants cover the damages.


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## pedro47 (Jan 23, 2018)

jimf41 said:


> No this is a family group. Numerous families with common relationship that travel together at the same time. The groups adult participants cover the damages.



Sounds like these families needs to take a 101 course in basic manners and how to act in public. That is my opinion only.


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## jimf41 (Jan 23, 2018)

JIMinNC said:


> From what I've read of the problems this situation creates for guests in Aruba, I can see why you would never want to return during that time (and when we go, we will avoid it for sure), but why would that make you not want to return to Aruba at some other time of the year?



On Long Island Spring, Summer and Fall are beautiful and we don't travel much. In winter we want warm wx, good beaches with shade and nice restaurants. The Marriott hotel in Aruba was very nice but that's about all we liked on the island. The wx was not great, everyone says it's a little breezy but when you're on the beach there is a steady 10 kt wind that becomes annoying. Every 10 minutes or so the "breeze" whips up into a mini hurricane that will knock over a drink or fill it with blown sand. There is very little shade and if you want some or a lounge chair you better be up by 0500. The restaurants were OK, not great but good enough but there weren't that many of them when we were there. I understand that has changed dramatically for the better since we were there.

I could go on but the fact is the place left me with a bad taste in my mouth and I don't want to go back. We own in St Thomas and spend our winter vacations there. Each to his own, folks that like Aruba really aren't too fond of the USVI. Doesn't make either a bad place it's just what you like. This year St Thomas was a nogo due to the hurricanes so we opted for Grand Cayman. Never been there before but we're going with friends that have so we'll see.


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## davidvel (Jan 23, 2018)

pedro47 said:


> Are these kids or young college students? How can kids  write a six figure check to cover damages and other related costs?


Pedro (and others), I know it sounds a bit strange, but Tug rules prohibit the discussion of certain aspects of this issue that involve *politics, religion, or contentious social issues.* 

For background, please see this closed thread, but don't discuss prohibited topics in this thread:
Closed thread about Aruba Event Weeks


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## happymum (Jan 23, 2018)

Although I generally disapprove of social shaming, this seems like an instance where a few videos of the outrageous behaviour would be appropriate. People can draw their own conclusions from what they see.


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## bazzap (Jan 23, 2018)

davidvel said:


> Pedro (and others), I know it sounds a bit strange, but Tug rules prohibit the discussion of certain aspects of this issue that involve *politics, religion, or contentious social issues.*
> 
> For background, please see this closed thread, but don't discuss prohibited topics in this thread:
> Closed thread about Aruba Event Weeks


Steering clear of politics and religion may well be a good idea, but if bad / abusive behaviour by whoever it may be is ruining the vacation for other owners and guests that seems like a social issue well worth addressing.


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## Quadmaniac (Jan 23, 2018)

NOT SAYING IT IS ACCEPTABLE but from Marriott's standpoint if they are dropping that much money, what would you do if that was your business ? Turn it away ? Come on.....Yes it doesn't reflect well on Marriott but much like any other hotel who might host a wild party, can you afford to turn it away to please other guests who probably don't spend a fraction of what this one group brings in for the week. Do you accommodate or push them away ? I think that would be difficult for any business owner to refuse them. 

If you are aware this happens year after year, it's widely published everywhere that Marriott won't do anything about it and it is not something you want to be around, book at another time to avoid this week. If you have to go that week, be prepared for a gong show.


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## mjkkb2 (Jan 23, 2018)

This is the key point - 'if one is aware'.  How about all those "unlucky" owners, renters and exchangers that have no clue what they're up for?  No one here is surprised why Marriott allows it to go on year after year.  It's all about the profits - and this is precisely why many, myself included are upset at the resort management.  I could only imagine how I would feel if I was personally affected by this 'event'.  I don't even have a horse in the race and it ticks me off quite a bit....


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## SueDonJ (Jan 23, 2018)

Quadmaniac said:


> NOT SAYING IT IS ACCEPTABLE but from Marriott's standpoint if they are dropping that much money, what would you do if that was your business ? Turn it away ? Come on.....Yes it doesn't reflect well on Marriott but much like any other hotel who might host a wild party, can you afford to turn it away to please other guests who probably don't spend a fraction of what this one group brings in for the week. Do you accommodate or push them away ? I think that would be difficult for any business owner to refuse them.
> 
> If you are aware this happens year after year, it's widely published everywhere that Marriott won't do anything about it and it is not something you want to be around, book at another time to avoid this week. If you have to go that week, be prepared for a gong show.



It's not "much like any other hotel" though, it's a timeshare property.  MVW profits off of the common area enterprises on-property at all of the resorts, via the rights that they hold by virtue of the governing docs, yet there are still owners who are surprised to learn that and/or argue that owners should share in those profits at least minimally.  Most of us understand that would be a losing battle but I'm bringing it up in the context of this situation because, just think how much MORE profit MVW is making off of this group that the timeshare owners never see one dime of - to name just one conduit, rental costs for the common spaces used by the group for catering and activities.  Or does anybody think that MVW out of the goodness of their hearts donates to this group the exclusive rights to space and amenities that they use to run their camp?!  No way MVW donates anything!  So if the owners' timeshare facility suffers as a result of this debacle, whether you're talking actual physical property damage or a poor reputation that impacts owners' rental and resale values as well as their own vacations, why shouldn't the owners feel as though they should have much more of a say in whether this group should be allowed to hijack the place AND much more of a stake in the profitability that MVW obviously enjoys as a result of the hijack?  I don't know if any Aruba Surf or Ocean Club owners have explored this avenue with competent expert attorneys but I would, if I were in their shoes.

And the other thing is what mjkkb2 has already mentioned - guests who are not affiliated with this group are not notified in advance that their vacation coincides with that of a LARGE group who has a years-long history of ruining other peoples' vacations.  Sure, anybody can research travel review websites but should it be a requirement?  Anybody with any interest in staying at timeshares can come to TUG and read to their hearts' content, but should that be a requirement?  Even if people are savvy about online property reviews, if the event only happens once a year and the properties enjoy a very good reputation all other times, how could the searchers know that they have to focus their searches to those certain weeks and the particular group involved?  Good luck - here on TUG which is one of the most active discussion group that allows this topic, we've had to reach a ridiculous compromise of not naming the group because doing so wreaks havoc.  The group itself stopped updating its own website years ago because of the negative responses they were getting!  Nope, the history related to this situation isn't something easily found even for the most savvy travelers - owners/renters/exchangers who stumble onto it cannot be faulted one bit IMO.

But in the end, how about just the overall unfairness of this whole mess? How about MVW's absolute lack of conviction in enforcing the rules related to owners/guests conduct that are clearly delineated in the governing docs, right down to stating that failure to follow the rules can result in immediate removal from the properties and - for owners - a suspension of ownership privileges?  How about knowing that any and every group that drops cash in MVW's lap might someday be allowed to invade your resort and ruin your vacation?!

Now if you really want to hear me rant and rave about this whole mess, just ask me about the owners who despite knowing the history deliberately market rentals to this group, obscenely inflating their usual rental prices, because "supply and demand."  Boo Hiss Boo!


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## jimf41 (Jan 23, 2018)

Quadmaniac said:


> NOT SAYING IT IS ACCEPTABLE but from Marriott's standpoint if they are dropping that much money, what would you do if that was your business ? Turn it away ? Come on.....


Just about every other major hotel group in Aruba has turned them away or told them not to come back. I really like Marriott but in this particular case something else is going on here. Paying up for damage caused doesn't make up for this annual nonsense. Some other back is being scratched or palm is being greased.


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## Quadmaniac (Jan 23, 2018)

While it is a timeshare, it does function like a hotel, where people can rent the units out from Marriott. You can classify it anyway you wish, it doesn't change the dynamics of it. It is what it is and seeing that it has been discussed a number of times here and on tripadvisor, it is not new. No matter where I go, I would research where I am going and if there things to watch out for. I can complain all I want, but history has proven that Marriott won't do anything about it year after year after year. 

So my question is that what does this discussion accomplish that previous discussions on this same week does not ? Has everyone not noted all the issues, how upset they are, how they complained to Marriott and they allow it to happen ? If you complain to Marriott again, as I'm sure the majority of the guests there during that week has over the past 10-15 years have and this is still the result, what will this debate accomplish ? What are you doing differently from the past that will make a difference ?

I'M NOT SAYING YOU DON'T HAVE A RIGHT TO BE UPSET - I'm saying what does that accomplish ? I'm sure people have yelled at the top of their lungs during that week at management and it still continues, so what does this all accomplish if it has not done anything in the past. How will you hold Marriott accountable ? What will you do different that hasn't already been done ? That is my point, it does not change. So if it makes you feel better to rant here, great, but it will be the same next year unless you do something productive that gets results.

Like everything in life, it is buyer beware. Its not any different at a timeshare to any other facility. We may fool ourselves by believing it isn't but the reality is the reality.


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## Quadmaniac (Jan 23, 2018)

jimf41 said:


> Just about every other major hotel group in Aruba has turned them away or told them not to come back. I really like Marriott but in this particular case something else is going on here. Paying up for damage caused doesn't make up for this annual nonsense. Some other back is being scratched or palm is being greased.



Exactly - Marriott has decided to accept them and continue to every year. So what can you do about it ? That's what I have been asking, what real action can you take as an owner that will stop this from happening year after year ?


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## Quadmaniac (Jan 23, 2018)

mjkkb2 said:


> This is the key point - 'if one is aware'.  How about all those "unlucky" owners, renters and exchangers that have no clue what they're up for?  No one here is surprised why Marriott allows it to go on year after year.  It's all about the profits - and this is precisely why many, myself included are upset at the resort management.  I could only imagine how I would feel if I was personally affected by this 'event'.  I don't even have a horse in the race and it ticks me off quite a bit....



We can be as ticked off as we want, but if it bothers us that much, then we should do something about it. If you fail to do some research of information that is broadly available, then the onus is on you. It is not any different from someone going to a timeshare presentation, not doing any research, commit $50,000 on a timeshare they will not use or know how to get out of, and then complain about it. The opportunity was there to get that information prior to committing and here too, there was that same opportunity here. Blindly assuming that Marriott will be upstanding and do everything in our benefit is really idealistic. Even though it is a respected company like Marriott, you still have to do your research no matter who, what, where, when and why.


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## amanda14 (Jan 23, 2018)

I'm curious. I have no dog in this fight, but I wonder if I acted the way I read here about this group at this property NOT during this event week, would I be spoken to by management about my behavior and the impact on other guests?  Bet I would.


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## Quadmaniac (Jan 23, 2018)

amanda14 said:


> I'm curious. I have no dog in this fight, but I wonder if I acted the way I read here about this group at this property NOT during this event week, would I be spoken to by management about my behavior and the impact on other guests?  Bet I would.


I'm sure you would too, but what will really happen if you did it again and again ? In this situation, it has happened again and again for 10+ years ? So what does that say about the efforts to prevent this from happening next year as obviously Marriott isn't going to do anything about it. I have no dog in the fight either, but I am amused how everyone is getting upset as it happens every year, but doesn't do anything the produces any difference and yet continue to bang their head on the wall. Are we not spinning our wheels here ?


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## rickxylon (Jan 23, 2018)

UPDATE-Confirmed that the group does pay extra for additional “services”. Security says that includes extra security staff for this particular week. Even though one particular offensive male youth was wearing a Surf Club wrist band they are sensitive to the fact that he could be a guest of someone staying at the Ocean Club. I must say the security team is awesome in how they handle each situation. They are frustrated because the kids (seem to be high school and jr high ages) won’t identify themselves or because “so many have the same last name”. Is anyone at the Surf Club or Marriott hotel who could comment on what is going on there?


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## davidvel (Jan 24, 2018)

Quadmaniac said:


> NOT SAYING IT IS ACCEPTABLE but from Marriott's standpoint if they are dropping that much money, what would you do if that was your business ? Turn it away ? Come on.....Yes it doesn't reflect well on Marriott but much like any other hotel who might host a wild party, can you afford to turn it away to please other guests who probably don't spend a fraction of what this one group brings in for the week. Do you accommodate or push them away ? I think that would be difficult for any business owner to refuse them.
> 
> If you are aware this happens year after year, it's widely published everywhere that Marriott won't do anything about it and it is not something you want to be around, book at another time to avoid this week. If you have to go that week, be prepared for a gong show.


In the 80s Palm Springs would draw 10,000-15,000 college kids that got drunk, had sex, puked and peed all over the place. Law enforcement was brought in from San Bernardino, CHP, and other local municipalities. Locals were incensed, but it basically funded the desert towns for the rest of the year. Finally, Mayor Sonny Bono, said enough was enough after some big melees and riots. He decided to end it, and cracked down so kids could barely move without an arrest.

That was published everywhere, and seen on local and national news (this was pre-social media). I don't agree that anyone knows about the Aruba problem on any large scale basis. As seen above, there are people here on TUG who don't even know about it, despite it being a huge topic here every year.

It has nothing to do with money. Marriott is too scared of the "sensitivities" and doesn't have the guts to document the behavior,  and defend the lawsuits if they were to enforce the rules against this "group."


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## Quadmaniac (Jan 24, 2018)

davidvel said:


> I don't agree that anyone knows about the Aruba problem on any large scale basis. As seen above, there are people here on TUG who don't even know about it, despite it being a huge topic here every year.
> 
> It has nothing to do with money. Marriott is too scared of the "sensitivities" and doesn't have the guts to document the behavior,  and defend the lawsuits if they were to enforce the rules against this "group."



Whether it is known or not, the information is available if one was to look on Tripadvisor or google reviews of the resort. It's not any different from a newbie buying a timeshare without googling it. How many people buy timeshares without doing any research ? 1000's every day even though this site is easily found on an internet search plus numerous other sites. Whether it is on a large or small scale, it is up to each individual to do their research in any reservation or purchase.

When I started travelling, I researched every place I went to, the accommodations, places to eat, when to go, what to avoid, things to bring, etc. I had considered going to SC and OC a few years ago and researched each resort, what each resort was better at, why would I want to stay at one or another. I did find a couple of threads about this event.

This event appears to have been going on at least since 2002 as by the comment by another user he ran into this at that time which ruined it. So for at least 16 years this has been going on and Marriott has turned a blind eye to it. So really, what can be really done after 16+ years of this ? Unfortunately not much is going to change.....go talk to the GM, write to Marriott, protest, try social media, but do something that hasn't been done if you want any chance of anything changing. If all of these things have not worked in the past, why would you think getting upset here will make a difference ? This has nothing to do with right or wrong, whether Marriott is allowed to do it or not. Marriott has done it and will continue to, so how do you stop them ?


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## vacationhopeful (Jan 24, 2018)

As the old saying goes, "Follow the Money". Marriott is. And Marriott seems to be able to SEE just fine as it counts the green.

Ft Lauderdale used to be "Spring Break Capital of the World" and my first FLL Spring Break was March, 1971. Now, us seniors STILL go back and relive our 'youth' to warm our old bones. Those "adventures of youth" become cash years later into the corporate coffers.


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## bazzap (Jan 24, 2018)

For me, there are two issues here.
1) should MVC allow very large groups demonstrating such bad behaviour to return each year?
2) should MVC advise individual owners that very large groups will be staying during certain week(s)?
Personally, as an owner, I don’t believe such groups should be allowed to return.
However, if for whatever reason (profit presumably) they do continue to allow it then I definitely believe they should give other owners advance notice of those week(s) so that they can decide whether or not they want to book and stay at a time when very large groups will be at the resort.
I would always research this and hopefully through TUG... etc find resorts and dates to avoid, but really as a responsible company MVC ought to take the initiative on this issue.


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## amanda14 (Jan 24, 2018)

That makes complete sense and I would say that this has everything to do with money and little to do with sensitivities.


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## mjkkb2 (Jan 24, 2018)

Quadmaniac said:


> We can be as ticked off as we want, but if it bothers us that much, then we should do something about it. If you fail to do some research of information that is broadly available, then the onus is on you. It is not any different from someone going to a timeshare presentation, not doing any research, commit $50,000 on a timeshare they will not use or know how to get out of, and then complain about it. The opportunity was there to get that information prior to committing and here too, there was that same opportunity here. Blindly assuming that Marriott will be upstanding and do everything in our benefit is really idealistic. Even though it is a respected company like Marriott, you still have to do your research no matter who, what, where, when and why.


IF nothing else, then another link that may show up on someone's search and maybe save their vacation...So I disagree that the same conversation on same topic does nothing.  Yes it doesn't solve the problem, but if it helps one person doing research for their Aruba trip then it's worth to me.
One way to solve this is to elect an independent HOA that would put owner's interests first.  Obviously as we all know this is a very hard thing to do....


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## SueDonJ (Jan 24, 2018)

I understand the point that venting here every year isn't doing anything to change Marriott's stance but, so what?  If that was the barometer of whether or not we should post about this or any other timeshare-related topic, the same could be said about 90% of TUG's content!

"3-5% annual increases in the MF's just aren't sustainable.  Marriott needs to get MF's in check or owners are going to start walking away!"

"Sales reps lie and their lies are going to catch up to them.  Direct sales just aren't sustainable with more and more people exposing this racket on the internet!"

"Timeshare companies should give owners access to the other owners' contact information.  Shared ownership isn't sustainable if it's too difficult for owners to band together for the common good!"

"I bought direct and am furious to learn that the timeshare companies don't actively sustain a healthy resale market.  It's time for a class action suit!"

"Tell me why you insist that I shouldn't pay a postcard company to help me get rid of my timeshare.  Sure, they're making money doing something that I could do on my own if I wanted to put in the time and energy, but it's not your money I'm spending!"

"Postcard companies are the devil, don't EVER support their business model!"

"Don't buy direct.  Buy instead on the external resale market from resellers - like the postcard companies - who collude to drag resale prices down as far as they possibly can go.  It's a buyer's market!"  <wink wink>

"Ack!  Just found out that <pick any timeshare company> is making money off of the common areas of the resort THAT I OWN!  It's time for a class action suit!"

"Owners who are made smart enough to be anti-developer by reading TUG need to sit on timeshare boards. Get active, run for your board!"

"It's useless for owners to fight the big timeshare machine.  Forget about them ever letting a TUGger near a board position."

Lather, rinse, repeat, on an unending cycle!

But again, so what?  It doesn't hurt anybody if we repeat ourselves, in fact it's helpful if even one person newly stumbles onto a topic each time a related discussion comes up.  Plus we have an opportunity to learn something new the more we talk about it - consider that even though this Aruba mess has been happening for years, it's only fairly recently that we've been able to pinpoint the exact time frame that it happens.  Baby steps.  

As for whether or not this topic being addressed annually on TUG will ever influence Marriott Vacation Club, I couldn't care less that what we're doing here doesn't appear to make one bit of difference to them.  All I know is, it makes me feel better to rant and rave about what I see as the worst example of MVC's indifference to owner concerns.  They deserve to be dragged for this, and TUG is a good place to do it.

(I'm not an owner at an Aruba resort.  Like I said upthread, if I were I would at least have a conversation about all this with a competent, expert attorney if for no other reason than, it would give me an idea of whether something actually could be done.)


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## Quadmaniac (Jan 24, 2018)

bazzap said:


> However, if for whatever reason (profit presumably) they do continue to allow it then I definitely believe they should give other owners advance notice of those week(s) so that they can decide whether or not they want to book and stay at a time when very large groups will be at the resort.
> I would always research this and hopefully through TUG... etc find resorts and dates to avoid, but really as a responsible company MVC ought to take the initiative on this issue.



Why would they want to warn anyone and possibly cost themselves business or guests ? If they aren't willing to control the group, they certainly won't warn anyone. It happens at other resorts as well - Ko Olina had that huge concert where the resort was over run with fans going to the concert and the loud music. I think there is another week when all the football players go there as well and there is some sort of training I believe ?


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## Quadmaniac (Jan 24, 2018)

mjkkb2 said:


> IF nothing else, then another link that may show up on someone's search and maybe save their vacation...So I disagree that the same conversation on same topic does nothing.  Yes it doesn't solve the problem, but if it helps one person doing research for their Aruba trip then it's worth to me.
> One way to solve this is to elect an independent HOA that would put owner's interests first.  Obviously as we all know this is a very hard thing to do....



Doesn't matter how many links - it won't show up if you don't search period. Tripadvisor is so universal and if you're too lazy to search there, hardly doubt one would google either. You would assume someone going to the island would want to know something about Aruba first let alone the resort or weather, etc.


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## Quadmaniac (Jan 24, 2018)

SueDonJ said:


> I understand the point that venting here every year isn't doing anything to change Marriott's stance but, so what?  If that was the barometer of whether or not we should post about this or any other timeshare-related topic, the same could be said about 90% of TUG's content!
> 
> But again, so what?  It doesn't hurt anybody if we repeat ourselves, in fact it's helpful if even one person newly stumbles onto a topic each time a related discussion comes up.  Plus we have an opportunity to learn something new the more we talk about it - consider that even though this Aruba mess has been happening for years, it's only fairly recently that we've been able to pinpoint the exact time frame that it happens.  Baby steps.
> 
> As for whether or not this topic being addressed annually on TUG will ever influence Marriott Vacation Club, I couldn't care less that what we're doing here doesn't appear to make one bit of difference to them.  All I know is, it makes me feel better to rant and rave about what I see as the worst example of MVC's indifference to owner concerns.  They deserve to be dragged for this, and TUG is a good place to do it.



Go ahead and vent to get it out. I just think it's funny how upset people are getting for something they can't do much about.


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## SueDonJ (Jan 24, 2018)

Quadmaniac said:


> Why would they want to warn anyone and possibly cost themselves business or guests ? If they aren't willing to control the group, they certainly won't warn anyone. It happens at other resorts as well - Ko Olina had that huge concert where the resort was over run with fans going to the concert and the loud music. I think there is another week when all the football players go there as well and there is some sort of training I believe ?



That concert was managed by the county and held on a parcel adjacent to Ko 'Olina, with the county changing the venue shortly before the event and giving very little notice to the nearby resorts.  MVC corporate and the onsite management team had absolutely no say in any of that, which is completely different from MVC corp and the onsite Aruba management teams allowing this group to hold their camps annually and giving them exclusive access to common areas of the resorts to the detriment of every other guest.

I think the football thing you're talking about is the NFL All-Star game which is widely publicized by the NFL as well as travel agencies and local lodging facilities.  It also doesn't compare with the Marriott mess in Aruba, which isn't publicized at all except within the insular community it serves and which MVC for all intents and purposes tries to pretend doesn't happen.


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## bazzap (Jan 24, 2018)

Quadmaniac said:


> Why would they want to warn anyone and possibly cost themselves business or guests ? If they aren't willing to control the group, they certainly won't warn anyone. It happens at other resorts as well - Ko Olina had that huge concert where the resort was over run with fans going to the concert and the loud music. I think there is another week when all the football players go there as well and there is some sort of training I believe ?


I am not saying they want to, I am saying they ought to as a reputational issue.
The only thing which is absolutely guaranteed is that if noone even attempts to raise the issue to be addressed through either or both the Resort Owner Board and MVC Corporate Offices definitely nothing will be done.
We have had a lesser scale events issue at one of my “home” resorts, still unreasonable behaviour though, and raising the issue with the resort management has at least resulted in changes to temper the impact on other owners staying.


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## ilene13 (Jan 24, 2018)

Just a point of information.  The majority of the people who come this week and are part of this group are Ocean Club and Surf Club owners.  Over the past 15 years or so they have purchased platinum weeks at both resorts.


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## NboroGirl (Jan 24, 2018)

Quadmaniac said:


> Go ahead and vent to get it out. I just think it's funny how upset people are getting for something they can't do much about.



I think that alone is a reason to get upset.


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## Ralph Sir Edward (Jan 25, 2018)

There is only one thing that can be done under the owner's control. . . Sell the timeshare.

I say that in a liability sense. What if one of the young fools, does something that get themselves killed? What kind of lawsuit do you think the parents are going to bring? Against just Marriott? Or against all the owners? I would expect the lawyers would go after every pocket they could grab out of. . . And the interval owners are just as much owners as Marriott.


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## Old Hickory (Jan 25, 2018)

Quadmaniac said:


> Go ahead and vent to get it out. I just think it's funny how upset people are getting for something they can't do much about.



And it seems to be an annual outrage.   

Marriott and the property owners seem to be fine with it all.    So why should I care?


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## rpk113 (Jan 25, 2018)

First let me say, this is the most calm thread about this topic in YEARS!!  Kudos to TUGGERS for keeping their heads on straight.  Second, this was a driver for my family to convert the weeks to points.  Flexibility...  No more Interval trade roulette ending us up in this week.  We login just like everyone else at 13-month (or 12 if we miss it) and get our unit the week we want.  Avoiding this group.  Had to spend a bit of cash, but it has saved whatever hair is left on my receding hairline to not stress over it..


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## Quadmaniac (Jan 25, 2018)

SueDonJ said:


> It's not "much like any other hotel" though, it's a timeshare property.  MVW profits off of the common area enterprises on-property at all of the resorts, via the rights that they hold by virtue of the governing docs, yet there are still owners who are surprised to learn that and/or argue that owners should share in those profits at least minimally...... So if the owners' timeshare facility suffers as a result of this debacle, whether you're talking actual physical property damage or a poor reputation that impacts owners' rental and resale values as well as their own vacations, why shouldn't the owners feel as though they should have much more of a say in whether this group should be allowed to hijack the place AND much more of a stake in the profitability that MVW obviously enjoys as a result of the hijack?  I don't know if any Aruba Surf or Ocean Club owners have explored this avenue with competent expert attorneys but I would, if I were in their shoes.



This is the thing you are missing here it that you and other "owners" are NOT actually owners, you own the rights to USE the facility for 1 week. You've prepaid for usage every year, essentially you have entered into a contract to lease the facilities of 1 suite for that time and shared used of the common facilities/areas. You don't own anything nor do you have any say in what they do with the facility. Its not unlike buying season tickets to your hockey team - you bought the rights to use that seat, but you have no say on how the facility runs, what events it holds, or what things it may have in it. If you aren't happy with the facility, sell your rights for that week. At no time during the sales process was there a promise of maintaining the resale value or the reputation. The profits the overall property/facility makes is within the rights of being the manager and operator. If you don't agree with how the operator is handling things, don't give them your business, just like any other business which you don't agree with how things are run or done. You feel that you own a piece of the pie, but you really don't. Trying to get lawyers involved is just throwing your money away. You have no rights in this situation unless they are denying you use of your unit during your prescribed time.




SueDonJ said:


> And the other thing is what mjkkb2 has already mentioned - guests who are not affiliated with this group are not notified in advance that their vacation coincides with that of a LARGE group who has a years-long history of ruining other peoples' vacations.  Sure, anybody can research travel review websites but should it be a requirement?  Anybody with any interest in staying at timeshares can come to TUG and read to their hearts' content, but should that be a requirement?  Even if people are savvy about online property reviews, if the event only happens once a year and the properties enjoy a very good reputation all other times, how could the searchers know that they have to focus their searches to those certain weeks and the particular group involved?  Good luck - here on TUG which is one of the most active discussion group that allows this topic, we've had to reach a ridiculous compromise of not naming the group because doing so wreaks havoc.  The group itself stopped updating its own website years ago because of the negative responses they were getting!  Nope, the history related to this situation isn't something easily found even for the most savvy travelers - owners/renters/exchangers who stumble onto it cannot be faulted one bit IMO.


Anyone who doesn't spend time to do research can only blame themselves if the information is out there and they don't seek it out before making their decision on when to go. The fact is, that the information is out there on multiple sites. Yes the onus is on the individual. If one is to really expect that everything and anywhere you go is going to be perfect and there are not pitfalls or things to watch out for is in for a rude awakening. This is true of any location you may go to and any facility you may be staying at. Of course, everyone puts their best foot forward to entice you to go there. Do they deliver on every aspect ? Not in most cases. I remember going to an all inclusive in Jamaica in a last minute trip and it wasn't anywhere close to its description. I researched it prior and it seemed like a great resort but the food was awful and the facilities were not as advertised. Its buyer beware.



SueDonJ said:


> But in the end, how about just the overall unfairness of this whole mess? How about MVW's absolute lack of conviction in enforcing the rules related to owners/guests conduct that are clearly delineated in the governing docs, right down to stating that failure to follow the rules can result in immediate removal from the properties and - for owners - a suspension of ownership privileges?  How about knowing that any and every group that drops cash in MVW's lap might someday be allowed to invade your resort and ruin your vacation?!
> 
> Now if you really want to hear me rant and rave about this whole mess, just ask me about the owners who despite knowing the history deliberately market rentals to this group, obscenely inflating their usual rental prices, because "supply and demand."  Boo Hiss Boo!



Again here is the problem, you THINK you are entitled to fairness as you BELIEVE you have more rights than you actually do. You are a guest who has rented a suite under an annual contract. They guarantee you your suite and USE of the facilities that it may have available. How they enforce the rules is up to the resort and management. Yes you can call them on the enforcement, but if they don't, what recourse do you have ? Yes Marriott has the ability to allow any group of people to invade the resort as you say and the only recourse you have is to not give them your money and boycott owning/using a unit there if you are that firmly disgusted with the situation.

Timeshare units are a commodity and if the market dictates that a rights holder can command more money for a week due to events going on that week, then people will follow the market. It is not any different than Christmas and New Year's weeks, President's week, Spring Break, Fourth of July weeks renting for more. They are sometimes sold for more and the rental rates are most times more.

If one was a smart "owner" I would purposely avoid that week and rent it out for more money, then take the money to rent out a subsequent week I want, making a profit that would cover for my airline tickets and car rental. If the idiots really want the place that week, have at it and they can cover my costs to enjoy my week at their expense. I'm going to turn a poor situation around to make it better for me rather than let them make it bad for me. Really it is Marriott's issue as they are the real owners and operators of the facility.

There is the old saying, if you are given lemons, make lemonaid out it.


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## SueDonJ (Jan 25, 2018)

Quadmaniac said:


> This is the thing you are missing here it that you and other "owners" are NOT actually owners, you own the rights to USE the facility for 1 week. You've prepaid for usage every year, essentially you have entered into a contract to lease the facilities of 1 suite for that time and shared used of the common facilities/areas. You don't own anything nor do you have any say in what they do with the facility. Its not unlike buying season tickets to your hockey team - you bought the rights to use that seat, but you have no say on how the facility runs, what events it holds, or what things it may have in it. If you aren't happy with the facility, sell your rights for that week. At no time during the sales process was there a promise of maintaining the resale value or the reputation. The profits the overall property/facility makes is within the rights of being the manager and operator. If you don't agree with how the operator is handling things, don't give them your business, just like any other business which you don't agree with how things are run or done. You feel that you own a piece of the pie, but you really don't. Trying to get lawyers involved is just throwing your money away. You have no rights in this situation unless they are denying you use of your unit during your prescribed time.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Of course you're right about MVC having the right to do whatever they want - including profit-making enterprises - with the common areas of the properties, which is what I've said already in this thread.  At every other resort where it happens though, including the Fia Fia Luau and market stalls at Ko 'Olina, those "amenities" are available to every guest on property who chooses to participate, and they're included in the Activities Guide that's distributed to every guest.  That's a far different animal than what takes place at the Aruba timeshares every year in January, when MVC gives exclusive access of certain common areas (parking lot space for an outside caterer, onsite venues for crafts/physical activities, etc) to this group for their "camp."  That's why I think the other owners/guests on property at the same time may have an unusual/singular claim to MVC's profit from this venture, because MVC is allowing only certain guests access to the entire resort.  The fact that MVC does not in any way notify owners/guests not connected to this group that they will be completely restricted from certain common areas, despite MVC's obvious knowledge of it in advance, IMO reinforces the claim that MVC should be held accountable for the impact this event has on non-participating owners/guests.

You are much more blasé than me when it comes to MVC not enforcing the stated rules and penalties re conduct and behavior when it directly impacts other owners/guests during this single event.  I've seen isolated instances at practically every resort we've visited when Security (or Loss Prevention, which is what most of them call themselves) intervene to diffuse bad situations, and I think it's entirely reasonable for owners and guests to expect that MVC will enforce the rules consistently across the entire portfolio of resorts.  When they don't, which is routine for this Aruba mess, they give the appearance - and a possible legal defense - to anybody who wants to make a claim that MVC Security has a known pattern and therefore no basis on which to enforce any rules.  Incidentally, that non-enforcement is also directly in contrast with the "family-centric" and "safe" attributes that they use to market their product.

Like I said, all of this is something I'd explore with a competent attorney in the field if I were an owner or if I stumbled upon it as a guest.  Could be it'd be a useless exercise but IMO it's one worth trying.

As for taking advantage of the situation as an owner and renting for higher-than-usual profit to this group, knowing its detrimental effect on others, well, we'll just have to disagree.


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## rthib (Jan 25, 2018)

Quadmaniac said:


> This is the thing you are missing here it that you and other "owners" are NOT actually owners, you own the rights to USE the facility for 1 week.


Aruba is a different beast. Most MVCI are deeded so the owners are actually own, but Aruba is a "right to use" - would be interesting to see what the actually contract says if someone were to take legal action.  If someone really wanted to do something - get some high quality video then get a contact at a local TV station that has a consumer reporter, probably someone in FL near MVCI HQ.  Then do the "Time Share Purchase turns into a nightmare" or "Honeymoon turns into a nightmare" etc... Bad review on trip advisor are not going to do it.  Or find one of the hundreds of cable channels and see if they want to do a documentary on "hell week." Or maybe someone on NPR.  If I owned there, that's what I would do.


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## mjkkb2 (Jan 25, 2018)

Quadmaniac said:


> This is the thing you are missing here it that you and other "owners" are NOT actually owners, you own the rights to USE the facility for 1 week. You've prepaid for usage every year, essentially you have entered into a contract to lease the facilities of 1 suite for that time and shared used of the common facilities/areas. You don't own anything nor do you have any say in what they do with the facility. Its not unlike buying season tickets to your hockey team - you bought the rights to use that seat, but you have no say on how the facility runs, what events it holds, or what things it may have in it. If you aren't happy with the facility, sell your rights for that week. At no time during the sales process was there a promise of maintaining the resale value or the reputation. The profits the overall property/facility makes is within the rights of being the manager and operator. If you don't agree with how the operator is handling things, don't give them your business, just like any other business which you don't agree with how things are run or done. You feel that you own a piece of the pie, but you really don't. Trying to get lawyers involved is just throwing your money away. You have no rights in this situation unless they are denying you use of your unit during your prescribed time.



I did not realize ARUBA MVCI properties were not deeded. Is this what you're referring to above?  Are the two resorts RTU type?  Would it be any different in your opinion if it was another resort where one actually owns real estate interest?  And if this is the case, does it mean that there's no HOA board at those properties?


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## mjkkb2 (Jan 25, 2018)

looks like I posted my questions just as the above post was being posted.......


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## davidvel (Jan 25, 2018)

Quadmaniac said:


> This is the thing you are missing here it that you and other "owners" are NOT actually owners, you own the rights to USE the facility for 1 week. You've prepaid for usage every year, essentially you have entered into a contract to lease the facilities of 1 suite for that time and shared used of the common facilities/areas. You don't own anything nor do you have any say in what they do with the facility. Its not unlike buying season tickets to your hockey team - you bought the rights to use that seat, but you have no say on how the facility runs, what events it holds, or what things it may have in it. If you aren't happy with the facility, sell your rights for that week. At no time during the sales process was there a promise of maintaining the resale value or the reputation. The profits the overall property/facility makes is within the rights of being the manager and operator. If you don't agree with how the operator is handling things, don't give them your business, just like any other business which you don't agree with how things are run or done. You feel that you own a piece of the pie, but you really don't. Trying to get lawyers involved is just throwing your money away. You have no rights in this situation unless they are denying you use of your unit during your prescribed time.
> 
> Again here is the problem, you THINK you are entitled to fairness as you BELIEVE you have more rights than you actually do. You are a guest who has rented a suite under an annual contract. They guarantee you your suite and USE of the facilities that it may have available. How they enforce the rules is up to the resort and management. Yes you can call them on the enforcement, but if they don't, what recourse do you have ? Yes Marriott has the ability to allow any group of people to invade the resort as you say and the only recourse you have is to not give them your money and boycott owning/using a unit there if you are that firmly disgusted with the situation.


I know know nothing about the governing structure of Aruba. But in regards to the U.S. Marriotts, and CA in particular, you are  wrong when you state the following things: 

-- You don't own anything nor do you have any say in what they do with the facility.
-- You have no rights in this situation unless they are denying you use of your unit during your prescribed time.
-- Trying to get lawyers involved is just throwing your money away.
-- How they enforce the rules is up to the resort and management. 
-- Yes you can call them on the enforcement, but if they don't, what recourse do you have ?

The answer to the last is: Plenty. The HOA (or Marriott as its Manager) has an obligation to protect the usage rights, and enforce the governing documents, rules, and regulations in a fair and un-arbitrary manner, to protect the rights of all owners. It cannot favor some owners over others. It cannot turn a blind eye to some violations, and enforce others.  This conduct clearly violates rules against nuisance, interference with other owners "USE", and many other provisions. 

In fact, (in CA at least) any owner has the right to sue any other owner directly to enforce the governing documents. No need to "ask" Marriott to enforce them. If this were happening at a CA Marriott resort, I'd be happy to take the case anytime on a contingency basis. Again, not specific to Aruba, but this is where many owners here are coming from based upon their experience of how Marriott resorts are organized and operate.


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## SueDonJ (Jan 25, 2018)

rthib said:


> Aruba is a different beast. Most MVCI are deeded so the owners are actually own, but Aruba is a "right to use" - would be interesting to see what the actually contract says if someone were to take legal action.  If someone really wanted to do something - get some high quality video then get a contact at a local TV station that has a consumer reporter, probably someone in FL near MVCI HQ.  Then do the "Time Share Purchase turns into a nightmare" or "Honeymoon turns into a nightmare" etc... Bad review on trip advisor are not going to do it.  Or find one of the hundreds of cable channels and see if they want to do a documentary on "hell week." Or maybe someone on NPR.  If I owned there, that's what I would do.



Every MVC Owner has a deed whether it's to a 1/50 (or 48, 49, 51 or 52, depending on the individual resort governing docs) share of a single unit or to a similarly-fractured RTU in a leasehold, but MVC holds ownership and/or usage rights for common areas at all of the resorts.  I understand the ownership difference and that it could impact any legal standing as far as ownership rights.

But the thing I'm focused on is that for this singular event MVC makes what must be an obscene profit while giving one group of onsite guests preferential treatment and exclusive access to certain common areas, to the known detriment of and without advance notice to every other guest on-property at the same time (and without any input from the RTU deeded owners.)  The historically-documented negative impact to the guests who are not members of this exclusive group is the same regardless of whether they are RTU owners, DC Points users, Marriott Rewards Members using MRP, Marriott, Int'l cash guests, II exchangers, renters-by-owners, whatever.  MVC has, as stipulated in the governing docs of every resort, a responsibility to every guest to enforce consistent rules that ensure the expectations fostered by Marriott's advertising - i.e. an enjoyable vacation in a family-friendly, safe environment - and when it comes to this mess in Aruba they're definitely not exercising that responsibility.


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## Quadmaniac (Jan 25, 2018)

davidvel said:


> I know know nothing about the governing structure of Aruba. But in regards to the U.S. Marriotts, and CA in particular, you are  wrong when you state the following things:
> 
> -- You don't own anything nor do you have any say in what they do with the facility.
> -- You have no rights in this situation unless they are denying you use of your unit during your prescribed time.
> ...



If that is the case, then sue Marriott and I guess we will see how far it really gets. I would place bets on it, but I would like to see if it remedies this. If it were possible and after 16+ years of this occurring, I find it interesting that the event continues on year after year. I would assume there would have been at least one lawyer vacationing there during that week over the years or an irate "owner" who hires a lawyer, wanting to prevent this from happening.

I would put it out there that if there were as much "rights" as you say there are, this should be an easy slam dunk case and the problem would be solved. My question is why has it not if this was possible ?


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## jimf41 (Jan 25, 2018)

Quadmaniac said:


> If that is the case, then sue Marriott and I guess we will see how far it really gets. I would place bets on it, but I would like to see if it remedies this. If it were possible and after 16+ years of this occurring, I find it interesting that the event continues on year after year. I would assume there would have been at least one lawyer vacationing there during that week over the years or an irate "owner" who hires a lawyer, wanting to prevent this from happening.
> 
> I would put it out there that if there were as much "rights" as you say there are, this should be an easy slam dunk case and the problem would be solved. My question is why has it not if this was possible ?



Most of the people affected by this are not owners. Owners know about the situation and avoid that time period. As far as Marriott letting it continue for corporate greed,I don't see it. The group pays for the damages and maybe Marriott comes out a little ahead there but the group brings most of it's own food and I don't think they imbibe heavily so where's the extra profit over what they'd make on a normal guest?

Someone is getting a huge payment that doesn't show up on the books.


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## skyequeen (Jan 25, 2018)

We spend several weeks a year at the Surf Club in fall and winter and are owners.  In one of our earliest visits another guest told us about this large group and we have been avoiding booking during NY Regents Week which is when they come because of the school holiday.  That being said, whenever we are at the resort during times like Presidents Week or when NJ and Massachusetts have school holidays, there are lots of pre-teens and teenagers who can be disruptive as a normal part of being kids.  When it happens I speak to the kids (which usually works) and if necessary call Security (for instance when kids jump off bridges or rocks into the lazy river).  The larger the group of related children, the more wild they can be.  Management at Surf Club is superb and listens to owners plus we have a board of directors.  All over Palm Beach resorts block off areas for private parties and weddings and we all survive.  It is one week a year and the visitors either own their weeks or have paid to rent - either way they have the right to be there and arrange catering IMO.  Book another time and just keep track of when Regents Week is every year. It is posted online.  Or make reservations that week and make some money renting as demand should be high.  If you are there then, speak up and get help from management.  Because group members have bought weeks, they are not likely to go to another venue.


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## merriot (Jan 25, 2018)

Politics?!  Religion??!  Contentious social issues???  Come on!!!    Speak up people! Right is right and wrong is wrong.

Doesn't matter your race, color, nationality or religion. 


 In the year of 2017, some people bury that insight  that because they think they have to to make sure everyone gets their rights and their voice.  Some people fear being labelled politically incorrect.  But what about when the do-gooders are stomped upon by the less enlightened or humanistic ?

Every person is born with a sense of right and wrong.  It is in their hearts.  This is an innate sense.  These  January people know they are acting out. The simple fact is they don't care.  So much for brotherly love and treat others equally the way you'd like to be treated. They will do whatever they want BECAUSE THEY CAN!  Apparently for some reason, the rules do not apply to them.

 Marriott is to blame here.  What if we all behaved this way, all timeshare year long?    Marriott would fold, that's what would happen.Who wants to pay 30000 plus 1500 a year maintenance fee  for a trip to hell or, just as bad, can't get a reservation because Marriott reserves a percentage of inventory for these uncivilized moneybags ? Why does Marriott   disregard the rights of good timeshare owners for the sake of  rude ignorant  selfish people WHO WILL NOT CONFORM TO THE RULES FOR THE MEMBERSHIP...FOR THE GOOD OF ALL???  Money might buy boldness but it can't buy class and maybe it can't even buy education.  

Marriott  should be fair enough to enforce the rules of civility whether money is to be made or not.  Why would a GOOD company be afraid of afraid saying, "Hey.  That's inappropriate. Unacceptable for the common good."   
We should all be equal under the  Marriott flag  and when fellow timeshare folks to whom I should be equal infringe on my right to enjoy the rest I have dearly paid for.... Marriott is breaking its contract with me.  

And that's all I have to say about that as Forrest Gump would say.

P.S.  I love Aruba and go three weeks in February for the last ten years and  will go this year too...have NEVER experienced anything like the January nightmare...I have stayed at Surf, Renaissance, Holiday Inn and Eagle Beach....I've gone in November...I just love the 85 degrees, the breeze (ok sometimes it is windier and it rains but that's of short duration)...it's a desert isle but the Arubans are great and restaurants are better every year...come on Marriott, step up to the plate.


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## WBP (Jan 25, 2018)

The "weeks" ownership at Ocean Club and Surf Club in Aruba is not deeded. The form of ownership is a Cooperative Association. Owners own Class A shares or Class B shares, one being residential, and the other being commercial.


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## BocaBoy (Jan 27, 2018)

Quadmaniac said:


> NOT SAYING IT IS ACCEPTABLE but from Marriott's standpoint if they are dropping that much money, what would you do if that was your business ? Turn it away ? Come on.....Yes it doesn't reflect well on Marriott but much like any other hotel who might host a wild party, can you afford to turn it away to please other guests who probably don't spend a fraction of what this one group brings in for the week.


The problem with your analysis is that the resort is not really "Marriott's business", they manage it on behalf of the owners.


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## Quadmaniac (Jan 27, 2018)

BocaBoy said:


> The problem with your analysis is that the resort is not really "Marriott's business", they manage it on behalf of the owners.



You are correct they manage it, but who takes all the profit from the resort ? The owners ? They don’t see any of it.


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## maizeandblue (Jan 28, 2018)

So how does the group all book the same week? Do they own hundreds of platinum weeks and have booking priority?


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## mj2vacation (Jan 28, 2018)

maizeandblue said:


> So how does the group all book the same week? Do they own hundreds of platinum weeks and have booking priority?


Yes


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## bazzap (Jan 28, 2018)

Quadmaniac said:


> You are correct they manage it, but who takes all the profit from the resort ? The owners ? They don’t see any of it.


Marriott International receive their royalty payments for licensing of their brand name and as this is % based it increases with the resort spend.
The balance of resort based business, once all operating / MVC costs are covered though, should be spent on resort development and improvement for the benefit of owners.


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## maizeandblue (Jan 28, 2018)

Wow, they probably control a seat on the board then. It’s my understanding that the spring break crowd at the Ft Lauderdale location is even more disruptive to owners. 

I love MVC but am glad I sold my week, many of the resorts are monstrous in size and condusive to large groups. I don’t care if it’s a fraternity, firemen, swingers or a church group. Anytime you have a big 300+ group there are issues. 

Not to be a shill for Hyatt or Four Seasons but most of their resorts are under 100 units so this would never happen.  It seems like the higher end brands that have residence club properties tend to attract a better demographic of owners and exchangers. Unfortunately these brands don’t have the reach of MVC or Hilton.


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## Quadmaniac (Jan 28, 2018)

bazzap said:


> Marriott International receive their royalty payments for licensing of their brand name and as this is % based it increases with the resort spend.
> The balance of resort based business, once all operating / MVC costs are covered though, should be spent on resort development and improvement for the benefit of owners.



The maintenance fees go to the operating income which they use to operate the resort. Marriott contributes a portion depending on how much they own, but the profits from rentals, events, food sales, alcohol goes to Marriott, not the owners.


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## DavidBr (Jan 29, 2018)

SueDonJ said:


> I doubt Marriott would make any kind of announcement because they're active facilitators of just how much this group takes over the property and ruins other guests' vacations. Over the years there have been other resorts on the island that "uninvited" the group so if Marriott wanted to do it they could. But they don't; instead they accommodate the group by allowing them to bring outside catering facilities on-property in a section of the parking lot, allowing them to take over other common areas for their group-only activities, hiring extra housekeeping people to clean up after the slobs, not intervening when negative behavior of group members impacts other guests or when ACTUAL SECURITY RISKS are occurring, etc.
> 
> After all these years I'm convinced that the bottom line is, this group is the Goose That Laid The Golden Egg for MVC. If I were an owner who stumbled on this fiasco Marriott would be paying me a hefty portion of their obscene profit because I'd fight them through every possible means. There is just too much history documented on social media for this to keep happening year after year after year after year ...
> 
> This situation is IMO the absolute worst stain on Marriott Vacation Club, and that's coming from someone who loves her timeshares and is usually able to defend Marriott when criticisms are offered.



We own three weeks in Aruba and avoid this week.  Please know that this topic is a frequent topic at the weekly meeting where the staff meets with owners.  The problem is that the resort management sometimes feels that it has to bend over backwards for owners regardless of behavior.  However, when other guests complain at other times in the year, management can take action.   During December, a college-age guest and child of an owner at the Surf Club, decided it would be a fine idea to kill several of the iguanas that inhabit the pool area.  What was interesting, in contrast to this thread is that after many guests complained and called security, the resort took firm action, and reported this individual to the police.  I was told that this individual would be fined at the airport in order to be able to leave.  The management can't excuse all behavior with the response "what can I do, they're owners." I have told the general manager myself that even if I'm not at the resort during late January, this group still has an impact on me and my family.  When I purchase a 15 week Platinum season, I should not be forced to crowd into the remaining 13 weeks because of someone's bad behavior.  When people experience this and don't return, it reduces my ability to rent my week if I don't want to use it or reduces my resale value.  So, I'm not ready to assume that all the owners have no power.  This should be brought up by multiple owners at the weekly meetings, it should be brought up to Marriott Vacations Worldwide management, it should be brought up to the boards at the two resorts. It should even be brought up as one of the reasons you're not buying at a sales presentation.  If they hear this from everyone things may change.  The annual maintenance on all the Aruba Timeshares is in the tens of millions of dollars.  That's the golden goose that keeps everyone on staff employed, not some check from this group (even if it is six figures) that comes once a year.  There's plenty of time to conclude that you're not being heard after you've spoken up--Don't make that assumption before you make your views known!


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## Luckybee (Jan 30, 2018)

DavidBr said:


> We own three weeks in Aruba and avoid this week.  Please know that this topic is a frequent topic at the weekly meeting where the staff meets with owners.  The problem is that the resort management sometimes feels that it has to bend over backwards for owners regardless of behavior.  However, when other guests complain at other times in the year, management can take action.   During December, a college-age guest and child of an owner at the Surf Club, decided it would be a fine idea to kill several of the iguanas that inhabit the pool area.  What was interesting, in contrast to this thread is that after many guests complained and called security, the resort took firm action, and reported this individual to the police.  I was told that this individual would be fined at the airport in order to be able to leave.  The management can't excuse all behavior with the response "what can I do, they're owners." I have told the general manager myself that even if I'm not at the resort during late January, this group still has an impact on me and my family.  When I purchase a 15 week Platinum season, I should not be forced to crowd into the remaining 13 weeks because of someone's bad behavior.  When people experience this and don't return, it reduces my ability to rent my week if I don't want to use it or reduces my resale value.  So, I'm not ready to assume that all the owners have no power.  This should be brought up by multiple owners at the weekly meetings, it should be brought up to Marriott Vacations Worldwide management, it should be brought up to the boards at the two resorts. It should even be brought up as one of the reasons you're not buying at a sales presentation.  If they hear this from everyone things may change.  The annual maintenance on all the Aruba Timeshares is in the tens of millions of dollars.  That's the golden goose that keeps everyone on staff employed, not some check from this group (even if it is six figures) that comes once a year.  There's plenty of time to conclude that you're not being heard after you've spoken up--Don't make that assumption before you make your views known!



Sorry to go slightly off topic but we too are owners at the OC in Aruba and I was dismayed to read your post. I had not heard about the incident involving the wonderful iguanas which have been a fixture at the Marriott properties since they first opened( in other words they were there long before we were). I'm assuming since there was talk of a fine they were  charged with some type of offence. Imho a fine was the least that should have happened to the two participants. Perhaps we can hope that with an offence record they might not be allowed back on Aruba again. My blood is boiling !!!


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## mdurette (Jan 30, 2018)

Will this group be gone by this weekend?    Trying to work out a last minute trip to surf club for my sister in law.

Edit.   Found the event sticky.  Looks like it is over now/tomorrow


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## Wally3433 (Jan 30, 2018)

Pretty please, with sugar on top, POST A VIDEO OF ARUBA EVENT WEEK!  

Words are great for some things, but this isn't it.  It doesn't exist until we see it.


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## ilene13 (Jan 31, 2018)

Luckybee said:


> Sorry to go slightly off topic but we too are owners at the OC in Aruba and I was dismayed to read your post. I had not heard about the incident involving the wonderful iguanas which have been a fixture at the Marriott properties since they first opened( in other words they were there long before we were). I'm assuming since there was talk of a fine they were  charged with some type of offence. Imho a fine was the least that should have happened to the two participants. Perhaps we can hope that with an offence record they might not be allowed back on Aruba again. My blood is boiling !!!


We were in Aruba at the OC weeks 51 and 52.  Yes there were some iguanas who were killed at the Surf Club.  The police were called because they are considered an endangered species. According to the management they did not know who had actually done the crime, so no one was going to be fined.  Because of their endangered status if they do find who did it those people would each be fined about $3000.  There were a lot of rumors floating around the beach but what I have stated is what I was told by Erwin.


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## Fairwinds (Jan 31, 2018)

Quadmaniac said:


> Anyone who doesn't spend time to do research can only blame themselves if the information is out there and they don't seek it out before making their decision on when to go. The fact is, that the information is out there on multiple sites. Yes the onus is on the individual. If one is to really expect that everything and anywhere you go is going to be perfect and there are not pitfalls or things to watch out for is in for a rude awakening. This is true of any location you may go to and any facility you may be staying at. Of course, everyone puts their best foot forward to entice you to go there. Do they deliver on every aspect ? Not in most cases. I remember going to an all inclusive in Jamaica in a last minute trip and it wasn't anywhere close to its description. I researched it prior and it seemed like a great resort but the food was awful and the facilities were not as advertised. Its buyer




Yep. I always blame the victim too. Especially in this case because poor behavior should always be excused when it can be predicted and therefore avoided. Never mind that they paid up to stay at a quality property where, most reasonable people have preconceived expectations of a quality vacation experience. I fall into this group. (Stupid me). I also once bought cruise line passage on Royal Caribbean because of good reviews. Arrived, checked in and went to topside bar only to find 20 to 30 (a small faction of the total number onboard) inebriated bikers; one with his pants down around his ankles. And so went the rest of the week. Totally my fault as I’m sure somewhere someone new this “group which will remain unnamed” was having Sturgis at sea week.

Actually, I’ve been vacationing with MVC for over 15 years and my research is always focused on the destination, available activities, and weather. If I wasn’t a member of tug I wouldn’t know about this mischief and it would have a big impact on my vacation. I would probably complain and would not understand someone’s opinion that it was my fault.


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## SueDonJ (Jan 31, 2018)

Wally3433 said:


> Pretty please, with sugar on top, POST A VIDEO OF ARUBA EVENT WEEK!
> 
> Words are great for some things, but this isn't it.  It doesn't exist until we see it.



Based on reports of how some members of this group have responded to one-on-one direct confrontations, and especially considering that Marriott doesn't appear to be supportive in those instances, I definitely wouldn't be obvious about taking any pics/videos.  Surreptitious, maybe, but I really don't know how to be paparazzi and don't want to learn.  

I also think that it would be stupid to post video/pics of any of them to social media because it would (correctly IMO) invite a challenge from them as to their privacy rights, but more importantly in this context because publicly sharing it could jeopardize whatever function it might serve in forcing Marriott to finally respond appropriately with a longterm solution to this mess.  If you have evidence I suggest, once again, that you share it with a competent attorney who can presumably help you to appropriately maximize its leverage.


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## Marathoner (Jan 31, 2018)

Please take videos and share with us. I would like to really understand what all the drama is about. 

Sent from my LG-H932 using Tapatalk


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## Quadmaniac (Jan 31, 2018)

Fairwinds said:


> Yep. I always blame the victim too. Especially in this case because poor behavior should always be excused when it can be predicted and therefore avoided. Never mind that they paid up to stay at a quality property where, most reasonable people have preconceived expectations of a quality vacation experience. I fall into this group. (Stupid me). I also once bought cruise line passage on Royal Caribbean because of good reviews. Arrived, checked in and went to topside bar only to find 20 to 30 (a small faction of the total number onboard) inebriated bikers; one with his pants down around his ankles. And so went the rest of the week. Totally my fault as I’m sure somewhere someone new this “group which will remain unnamed” was having Sturgis at sea week.
> 
> Actually, I’ve been vacationing with MVC for over 15 years and my research is always focused on the destination, available activities, and weather. If I wasn’t a member of tug I wouldn’t know about this mischief and it would have a big impact on my vacation. I would probably complain and would not understand someone’s opinion that it was my fault.



There is a big difference between your cruise and this event week. Your cruise is random attendees unless it is a specific occasion where it attracts certain people. This specific week has been occurring for at least 16 years and published in multiple sites, not just TUG, but Tripadvisor and number of other groups. 

In your "over 15 years" you indicate that you do your research on the destination, activities available and weather - where exactly do you research that ? Tripadvisor probably which has gathered all the relevant information. Would you not also research the resort, where it is located, what facilities it may have, what restaurants are close, what activities it is close, what the WEATHER may be at the specific time you're there ? If you did as you said you would, you would most likely come across at least one thread in this event. Would you also not google activities/events in January in Aruba if you were going at that time ? 

So if you show up at Stugis, booking a hotel in the area without knowing it was going on, it would be the hotel's fault for not pointing it out to you specifically right ? You expect them to advertise and warning you AGAINST coming ?

I'm just saying the information is out there, whether or not you choose to seek it out is your choice. It is always buyer beware no matter what you buy or book. Do you not research the backpack you're going to buy ? Do you not research the university you are going to attend ? Do you not research car you're buying ? Not every product or service is created equal and there will be factors affecting your enjoyment of it. 

The prime example which I mentioned earlier is buying a timeshare. The information is out there, yet many still go out to buy one blindly without doing any research about them at all, let alone each brand, how to use them, is it a good value, where to buy them, etc. Let's look at Marriott specifically, they sell points and tell you that you can book anything. Then after buying, they don't realize that not everyone can book Maui at Christmas time in a 3 br OF suite. They promote their big safari trips of a lifetime, but don't tell you that you can book that same trip for less than using your points on your own with cash ? Do they mention you have to book right at 12/13 month mark to get your week as a weeks owner for president's week ? If you think that a business is going to disclose their weaknesses or anything that will deter you from giving them your patronage, I think you're setting yourself up for disappointment. This is the reality of the world.

As a consumer, you are the one who suffers as a result at the end of the day if you attend during this event week and no matter how much you complain, it won't change the people already there having their get together. Blame the resort, stand in the middle of the pool and yell at the kids, does it change the end result ? Nope


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## pedro47 (Jan 31, 2018)

I have learn this from reading this thread do not book an exchange at this Marriott resort during the Month of January.


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## m61376 (Jan 31, 2018)

pedro47 said:


> I have learn this from reading this thread do not book an exchange at this Marriott resort during the Month of January.


Just fyi- it's not the whole month- generally it's the third week, occ. the 4th. It's the NY January Regent's week, when the private school has off. When our daughter was in law school we adhered to the college intersession schedule, and went down the second week in January without issue. We've also gone the last week, so overlapped on the weekend, and except for perhaps bigger crowds on Sat. we didn't see/hear any issues.


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## davidvel (Jan 31, 2018)

Quadmaniac said:


> There is a big difference between your cruise and this event week. Your cruise is random attendees unless it is a specific occasion where it attracts certain people. This specific week has been occurring for at least 16 years and published in multiple sites, not just TUG, but Tripadvisor and number of other groups.
> 
> In your "over 15 years" you indicate that you do your research on the destination, activities available and weather - where exactly do you research that ? Tripadvisor probably which has gathered all the relevant information. Would you not also research the resort, where it is located, what facilities it may have, what restaurants are close, what activities it is close, what the WEATHER may be at the specific time you're there ? If you did as you said you would, you would most likely come across at least one thread in this event. Would you also not google activities/events in January in Aruba if you were going at that time ?


*Lots of people do, and many don't. No one should expect Marriott to allow this behavior, regardless.*


> So if you show up at Stugis, booking a hotel in the area without knowing it was going on, it would be the hotel's fault for not pointing it out to you specifically right ? You expect them to advertise and warning you AGAINST coming ?


*Yes, most people would expect this.*


> I'm just saying the information is out there, whether or not you choose to seek it out is your choice. It is always buyer beware no matter what you buy or book. Do you not research the backpack you're going to buy ? Do you not research the university you are going to attend ? Do you not research car you're buying ? Not every product or service is created equal and there will be factors affecting your enjoyment of it.


*So according to your logic, if there are multiple yelp reviews that people suffer food poisoning at a restaurant due to bacteria in the food (and this is true), the restaurant shouldn't be held accountable? (Yes, we know, there is nothing anyone can do about it, so just go back to the TUG Lounge threads.)*


> The prime example which I mentioned earlier is buying a timeshare. The information is out there, yet many still go out to buy one blindly without doing any research about them at all, let alone each brand, how to use them, is it a good value, where to buy them, etc. Let's look at Marriott specifically, they sell points and tell you that you can book anything. Then after buying, they don't realize that not everyone can book Maui at Christmas time in a 3 br OF suite. They promote their big safari trips of a lifetime, but don't tell you that you can book that same trip for less than using your points on your own with cash ? Do they mention you have to book right at 12/13 month mark to get your week as a weeks owner for president's week ? If you think that a business is going to disclose their weaknesses or anything that will deter you from giving them your patronage, I think you're setting yourself up for disappointment. This is the reality of the world.
> 
> As a consumer, you are the one who suffers as a result at the end of the day if you attend during this event week and no matter how much you complain, it won't change the people already there having their get together. Blame the resort, stand in the middle of the pool and yell at the kids, does it change the end result ? Nope


A very sad commentary on this situation in my opinion. I know you are trying to defend your position that "sorry folks, it is what it is, but just deal with it, it's not going to change." But your zeal to defend your position is exposing the absurdity of it.

Everyone (else) here is just stating how wrong it is that Marriott allows this to happen. Your response is buyer beware, and don't go those weeks. So imagine that there is an owner who has problems with his intestinal tract, and he craps in the pool where *you own* every time he goes in, and its shuts down every day during your stay. Marriott does nothing, and allows him to defecate in the pool every day of his 2 week stay. (Some people may even get sick.) But, this is well known, and there is a story on CNN, MSNBC or Fox (take your pick) every year, and any fool should know about it. And, they should just not book during these prime weeks, and be OK with that.

So according to your multiple posts, "too bad so sad." This thread is about what Marriott _should be_ doing, as much as it's about what they are or are not doing. Sorry you can't see that.


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## Quadmaniac (Feb 1, 2018)

davidvel said:


> *Lots of people do, and many don't. No one should expect Marriott to allow this behavior, regardless.*
> 
> *Yes, most people would expect this.*
> 
> ...



No I think you are missing what I am saying. If that restaurant has caused a lot of food poisoning and I spent a little time researching it, then if I decide to go, THAT IS A RISK that I am exposing myself to! Yes the restaurant is responsible but :

1) Restaurant knows about it
2) Restaurant doesn't do anything about it
3) Authorities or policies that are SUPPOSED to protect consumers have been ineffective
4) You go to the restaurant and you are now sick
5) You are suffering in the bathroom
6) Who is suffering at the moment and paying the price ? YOU!

The same goes for your example of a guest defecating in the pool. Yes Marriott is responsible BUT IF THEY DO NOTHING REPEATEDLY - Do you stupidly jump in the pool knowing that the issue is not being addressed and then complain you are sick when you could have avoided the pool until SOMEONE does do something about it ? HUGE difference in what I am saying. RECOGNIZING that your complaints are falling on deaf ears and taking the appropriate actions as a result is prudent. You are more than welcome to go swim in the pool while you are complaining if this is your solution.

I've said in numerous posts and you can go back and read it - I've said it is NOT RIGHT for Marriott to do what they are but as there is nothing stopping them, they have done it for 16+years. 



Quadmaniac said:


> NOT SAYING IT IS ACCEPTABLE but from Marriott's standpoint if they are dropping that much money, what would you do if that was your business ? Turn it away ? Come on.....Yes it doesn't reflect well on Marriott but much like any other hotel who might host a wild party, can you afford to turn it away to please other guests who probably don't spend a fraction of what this one group brings in for the week. Do you accommodate or push them away ? I think that would be difficult for any business owner to refuse them.
> 
> If you are aware this happens year after year, it's widely published everywhere that Marriott won't do anything about it and it is not something you want to be around, book at another time to avoid this week. If you have to go that week, be prepared for a gong show.



I'll summarize it in SIMPLE TERMS

1) YES IT IS WRONG - WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG of Marriott
2) 16 years of bitching about it has accomplished --> Didley squat!
3) Getting upset about it has accomplished --> Didley squat!
4) Instead of bitching like arm chair quarterbacks and it bothers you THAT MUCH - DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT THAT WILL PRODUCE RESULTS AS COMPLAINING HAS DONE NOTHING !!!!!!!!!!!!
5) Remember this is the real world and not FANTASY ISLAND, businesses will do whatever it takes for the bottom line at the expense of customers - that is a given. Look at what fast food places use to make their burgers and chicken nuggets - is it good for you ? NO!
6) Many businesses WILL NOT DO what is right unless forced to
7) WHAT WILL YOU DO TO FORCE MARRIOTT TO DO THE RIGHT THING ?
8) Talking about what Marriott SHOULD be doing has accomplished nothing. Will you continue doing the same thing, year after year, to get the same results ? What does that accomplish ? Does it make you feel better to vent it till it happens next year and you get to complain about it again ? Where does it end ? It ends when something forces it to change.

You aren't really upset about it if all you can do is be a keyboard hero. If you are TRULY SERIOUS AND UPSET, get up and change the channel instead of yelling at the TV, which is my point from the beginning. Yelling at it does nothing, DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT! If you are unwilling to do something, then be smart about it and avoid it or rent it out to make money from it.


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## pedro47 (Feb 1, 2018)

What would happen if all Marriott travelers would boycott that week in January in Aruba?
Would that send a message to someone?


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## ilene13 (Feb 1, 2018)

pedro47 said:


> What would happen if all Marriott travelers would boycott that week in January in Aruba?
> Would that send a message to someone?



These questions are moot as most of the guests there at that time are owners.


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## davidvel (Feb 1, 2018)

Quadmaniac said:


> No I think you are missing what I am saying. If that restaurant has caused a lot of food poisoning and I spent a little time researching it, then if I decide to go, THAT IS A RISK that I am exposing myself to! Yes the restaurant is responsible but :
> 
> 1) Restaurant knows about it
> 2) Restaurant doesn't do anything about it
> ...


I haven't  read about people who know what is happening  there, book those weeks specifically, then complain about it. But of course everyone else that is affected deserve it because they are too stupid to research and find information that gives them a picture of how truly bad it is.

Yep, very SIMPLE.


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## Quadmaniac (Feb 1, 2018)

davidvel said:


> I haven't  read about people who know what is happening  there, book those weeks specifically, then complain about it. But of course everyone else that is affected deserve it because they are too stupid to research and find information that gives them a picture of how truly bad it is.
> 
> Yep, very SIMPLE.



If you don't do your research, you end up there, yes it is bad, yes Marriott SHOULD be doing something about it, yes Marriott has not done what they should, so you are going to suffer and put up with the disruption. You can complain till you are blue in the face, its not going to stop it at that moment as it is too late, so you will live with the consequences of not doing your homework. Is that or is that not realistic of how it will play out ? Please tell me in your view how the actual week will play out otherwise ? 

Lets say you are 100% right, it all Marriott's fault and they should be taking responsibility, but they aren't going to do anything about it as they have done for in the past, does that change how you are going to experience the next week with all these people doing what they want at the resort ? Is this knowledge of personal satisfaction that Marriott apologizes to you on the spot, make your week better ? Will that stop the bad behaviour ? Does anything play out differently ?


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## l0410z (Feb 2, 2018)

My grandfather used to say  'You can't help someone who doesn't want to be helped or fix somethings that isn't broken'.  The families are responsible but given it has gone on for so long, things aren't changing.  They do not see their behavior as a problem. Marriott's  GM either believes the behavior is okay or us powerless to do anything.  I would video the behavior over the course of the week. If there is a Surf Club facebook page I would post it there to gain support of owners.  If there isn't an owners facebook page, I would  create one.  i would send it to MVCI's executive team and legal.  I would copy Marriotts CEO since it still represents the brand.  This doesn't represent the values of most people that own or the values that Marriott sells.   If nothing gets done then control what you can control and avoid the situation.


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## davidvel (Feb 2, 2018)

l0410z said:


> My grandfather used to say  'You can't help someone who doesn't want to be helped or fix somethings that isn't broken'.  The families are responsible but given it has gone on for so long, things aren't changing.  They do not see their behavior as a problem. Marriott's  GM either believes the behavior is okay or us powerless to do anything.  I would video the behavior over the course of the week. If there is a Surf Club facebook page I would post it there to gain support of owners.  If there isn't an owners facebook page, I would  create one.  i would send it to MVCI's executive team and legal.  I would copy Marriotts CEO since it still represents the brand.  This doesn't represent the values of most people that own or the values that Marriott sells.   If nothing gets done then control what you can control and avoid the situation.


Yes,  it going to take one of those people who doesn't know how or refused to research properly to video this and get it viral. But likely the group will claim discrimination just like the airline videos.


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## Quadmaniac (Feb 2, 2018)

l0410z said:


> My grandfather used to say  'You can't help someone who doesn't want to be helped or fix somethings that isn't broken'.  The families are responsible but given it has gone on for so long, things aren't changing.  They do not see their behavior as a problem. Marriott's  GM either believes the behavior is okay or us powerless to do anything.  I would video the behavior over the course of the week. If there is a Surf Club facebook page I would post it there to gain support of owners.  If there isn't an owners facebook page, I would  create one.  i would send it to MVCI's executive team and legal.  I would copy Marriotts CEO since it still represents the brand.  This doesn't represent the values of most people that own or the values that Marriott sells.   If nothing gets done then control what you can control and avoid the situation.



This has to be one of the best replies to this thread and exactly what I was trying to get at but much better explained than I was able to. Do something about it to stimulate change or live with the consequences of inaction and adapt to make it work in your favor.


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## Wally3433 (Feb 3, 2018)

SueDonJ said:


> Based on reports of how some members of this group have responded to one-on-one direct confrontations, and especially considering that Marriott doesn't appear to be supportive in those instances, I definitely wouldn't be obvious about taking any pics/videos.  Surreptitious, maybe, but I really don't know how to be paparazzi and don't want to learn.
> 
> I also think that it would be stupid to post video/pics of any of them to social media because it would (correctly IMO) invite a challenge from them as to their privacy rights, but more importantly in this context because publicly sharing it could jeopardize whatever function it might serve in forcing Marriott to finally respond appropriately with a longterm solution to this mess.  If you have evidence I suggest, once again, that you share it with a competent attorney who can presumably help you to appropriately maximize its leverage.



Disagree.  Nothing wrong with taking a video of stupidity and posting it in any media format.  Happens all day, and every day.  Heck, you can't even park illegally in my neighborhood for 5 minutes without someone posting a picture of your car and plate number on our Facebook neighborhood watch.  This HELPS society.    Pictures complete the story - without them, it's just anonymous narrative.


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## pedro47 (Feb 4, 2018)

This is now called reality tv and these tv shows are a hit liked Jerry Springer, The HouseWives of LA and Cops. They are nothing but trash and a very bad influence on our young kids & adults. That is my opinion only.

I think, I am showing my old age.


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## Luckybee (Feb 6, 2018)

ilene13 said:


> We were in Aruba at the OC weeks 51 and 52.  Yes there were some iguanas who were killed at the Surf Club.  The police were called because they are considered an endangered species. According to the management they did not know who had actually done the crime, so no one was going to be fined.  Because of their endangered status if they do find who did it those people would each be fined about $3000.  There were a lot of rumors floating around the beach but what I have stated is what I was told by Erwin.


Hi Ilene...how are you ? Thanks for the follow up. When I first read this I was hoping it was a rumor without traction. Sad to hear and if they didn't know who was responsible even more unfortunate


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## ilene13 (Feb 6, 2018)

It was sad. The different stores that were going around were ridiculous- an urban legend!  We are good.  I’ve been looking into flights for December and right now round trip fares from Florida are about $1200 pp.  Crazy!!


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## Luckybee (Feb 7, 2018)

ilene13 said:


> It was sad. The different stores that were going around were ridiculous- an urban legend!  We are good.  I’ve been looking into flights for December and right now round trip fares from Florida are about $1200 pp.  Crazy!!


Uh yep we know....looking at the prices from Toronto or Buffalo for Nov/Dec we decided to use our points instead on Air Canada (and at least we can get a non stop out of Toronto) . I was surprised....usually Buf is way cheaper but not this time.


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## DavidBr (Feb 15, 2018)

ilene13 said:


> We were in Aruba at the OC weeks 51 and 52.  Yes there were some iguanas who were killed at the Surf Club.  The police were called because they are considered an endangered species. According to the management they did not know who had actually done the crime, so no one was going to be fined.  Because of their endangered status if they do find who did it those people would each be fined about $3000.  There were a lot of rumors floating around the beach but what I have stated is what I was told by Erwin.



I was at the Surf Club on 12/20 when the incident with the Iguanas occurred. At least a half a dozen people pointed out the young man to security. The next day, he was at the pool as if nothing had happened. Again, several guests inquired about what was going to be done about this.  Several members of the management team came to the pool area on Thursday 12/21 to reassure the guests that this was being taken seriously. We were told that the police went up to the individual's room. There is no way that Surf Club management did not know who the individual was by Thursday afternoon.  That's because there were many guests telling the managers who came out to the pool "it's that guy over there in the red baseball cap."  By the way, he and his family all had pool floats with their last name written in Sharpie.  Anyone who actually saw this guy knows that name.  When I checked out on Christmas Day, I had a conversation with one of the managers whom I have previously spoken to at the regular Tuesday owner's meeting.  He was also well aware of the identity of this individual and told me that there would be a fine/sanction at the airport when the individual would leave the island.  Obviously, I have no way of knowing whether a fine actually occurred.  As an aside, I was at the Surf Club this past weekend (2/10-2/11), and my wife is still there.  Although there is a bit more wind and rain than is typical for February, everyone I encountered was well-behaved.


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## dfeetham (Feb 15, 2018)

I was there that week and my real concern was with all of the very young children unattended in the pool. I overheard one of the parents tell her 7 year old at the beach to just go up to the pool and find some kids to hang out with.
What upset me the most is watching them doing very dangerous stunts that could seriously harm them.  I witnessed a young 3 year old wandering around the pool by herself and nobody was looking for her. We turned her over to the security.
Or the 6 year old girl in the pool that my girlfriend had to jump in and save from drowning and no parent around.
Or the 16 passed out drunk on the floor of the lobby and no parent to be found. This to me is very nearveracking.
My friend who asked the boys in the lazy river to stop jumping off the rocks because they almost landed on her and the she got threats by them of harm.
Where are the parents. If any of this happened in the USA child services would be brought in.


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## Goaltender (Feb 15, 2018)

My wife and I were at OC 1/20 - 1/27 and were unaware of "Event Week".  We were a bit shocked when we arrived and went to the pool bar for Happy Hour and found teenagers 12-15 deep.  The manager saw us and quickly brought us to a table and had a waiter get us drinks.  I am an early riser and was in line @ 7AM for the free day/of rental of palaces and reserved the same front row for 4 of the 6 days we were at the beach.  I had conversations with a number of people from the community both adult and 18+ yo's and all were pleasant. With that said, we will never return to Aruba in January!  The young children are not supervised at the pool and it seems like the parents go to the casino next door and let their kids roam the resort.  Every nite when we came back from dinner the lobby was full of tweens and loud.  We took a late nite walk on the beach returning around 10PM Friday and there was a group of 6 young girls walking in front of us and my guess is the youngest was between 6-8 and the oldest couldn't have been more than 10.  Who lets young girls walk along at nite? We did see kids up in the hot tub after hours and a father throwing a ball around the pool to his kids on the last day and was asked 4-5 times to get closer to the kids so others could enjoy the pool.  He kept telling security he was close enough!  I'm sure there was more happening but we did beach during the day, dinner off-site each night and walk on the beach when we returned and then bed.  We will go back next year...... in February!


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