# HUGE 2017 MF's  increases at SC Resorts / "Disaster Recovery" [Multi-threads merged.]



## MOXJO7282 (Nov 7, 2016)

[Re OceanWatch] $242  (17.13%) increase.  The highest 1 yr increase I've personally ever seen.
This is so disappointing. Not sure yet where the increase comes from but what could it possibly be to have an increase of that magnitude?

Again another situation where we get no fore warning and it just appears on the website.

_[Post edited to add resort name after thread merged and re-titled. <-- SueDonJ]_


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## VacationForever (Nov 7, 2016)

Hurricane insurance?


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## TheTimeTraveler (Nov 7, 2016)

MOXJO7282 said:


> $242  (17.13%) increase.  The highest 1 yr increase I've personally ever seen.
> This is so disappointing. Not sure yet where the increase comes from but what could it possibly be to have an increase of that magnitude?
> 
> Again another situation where we get no fore warning and it just appears on the website.





Annualized this figure works out to about $12,000 per year for each and every Villa on the property.  So yes, it is a large increase when multiplied by the amount of Villas at Ocean Watch.  The increase of 17% is well beyond the current level of inflation.



.


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## littlestar (Nov 7, 2016)

Wowzer!


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## WBP (Nov 7, 2016)

I've been thinking about a situation like this since Hurricane Matthew reared its ugly head.

In my opinion, owning "resort real estate," fraction or whole, comes with liabilities, that accompany owning real estate in popular resort destinations. A few examples:

The mountain resorts are subject to the extremes of winter (e.g. energy usage, wear and tear by skis, ski boots, snowboards, effects of extreme (cold temperatures));

The desert resorts are subject to bright sun, heat, energy usage (when temperatures are high), earth quakes (in California);

The oceanfront resorts are subject to the risk of flooding, hurricanes, salt water damage, sand damage to villas;

The caribbean and Hawaiian resorts are subject to higher costs of doing business, due to their remoteness;

and The urban resorts are subject to urban ills, including the risk of terrorism, that in this new world is an urban reality.

So, I can't think of a popular resort destination, that would motivate Marriott to build there, customers to buy timeshares there, and that does not have a bunch of liabilities and vulnerabilities, when it comes to annual maintenance fees, not the least of which are staff salaries, fringe benefits, and property insurance.

The one variable that is controllable, is the important role that a Homeowners Association Board of Directors plays, in ensuring that every line item expenditure of the HOA's Operating Budget passes the fiscal responsibility test. Hence, best one look over - carefully - - the slate proposed for their HOA's Board of Directors, and vote responsibly.


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## BocaBoy (Nov 7, 2016)

Out of control maintenance fees are one major reason why the value of timeshares has plummeted in recent years and is unlikely to bounce back.  It wasn't always this way.  We owned at Sabal Palms for 10-15 years before fiscal responsibility went out the window a dozen or so years ago, and at that time Sabal Palms was actually selling at a very significant premium to the original developer prices.  There are also other reasons for this drop in timeshare values, but that is not germane to the topic of this thread.


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## dioxide45 (Nov 7, 2016)

OceanWatch did have a lot more hurricane damage. I don't even thinkg the ocean/garden view tower is open yet since the storm. Perhaps they are just provisioning to be on the safe side.


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## bazzap (Nov 8, 2016)

If they are provisioning for post hurricane costs already in the 2017 MFs, they must have agreed the budget extraordinarily quickly.
If so, Owners should be advised / able to see what has been included in the Reserve Replacement fund for this.


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## disneymom1 (Nov 8, 2016)

I looked at our Surfwatch maintenance fee statement.  There was an extra $50 per unit labeled as "disaster recovery*".  (2 bedroom $46.89
and 3 bedroom $54.48)

Here is the quote from statement
"* Anticipated expenses to be incurred by the Association in connection with damage from the impact of Hurricane Matthew, which includes costs, fees and expenses for debris removal, tree removal, remediation, water intrusion repair, roof repair, elevator repair, reconstruction, and repair and replacement of furniture, fixtures and equipment. Costs and expenses included in this line item are not anticipated to be reimbursable from the insurance company and would be applied to the Association's insurance deductible."

Was there any such line added to OceanWatch statement?


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## dioxide45 (Nov 8, 2016)

I would also suspect, claim or no claim, they expect their insurance premiums to increase next year.


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## Superchief (Nov 8, 2016)

I would be interested in knowing what expenses are driving the increase. I've been monitoring expenses at my MVC resorts at the line item level to see whether increases are reasonable or justified. I've observed significant increases in 'activities' expenses at many resorts, and these are the types of expenses that can be better managed by the boards and GM's. 

Were the increases in the operating fees or in the reserves? Hopefully it includes a one-time expense related to the hurricane.


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## l0410z (Nov 8, 2016)

Look to see what is driving this.   We got a $153 increase (Monarch) that will last for 4 years.   The question I was asked when I posted this was will it go down after 4 years.  I assume yes but based on the question I decided to ask.  Still waiting for a response.  I am assuming Hurricane Matthews is keeping people busy and may impact the answer.


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## SueDonJ (Nov 8, 2016)

disneymom1 said:


> I looked at our Surfwatch maintenance fee statement.  There was an extra $50 per unit labeled as "disaster recovery*".  (2 bedroom $46.89
> and 3 bedroom $54.48)
> 
> Here is the quote from statement
> ...



How are you able to access the Operating Budget?  I can see the MF amounts at the "Make Payment" button but there aren't any PDF's attached.  

Whatever MVW is doing differently with MF's in our owners.marriottvacationclub.com accounts (as compared to my-vacationclub.com) is maddening.  I suspect it may have something to do with each owner having individual log-ins not accessible to each other, in addition to whatever other ridiculousness they've managed to integrate into the new website.  I wish they'd bring back the old way of linking the PDF statements in the emails that announce MF's, and fix the stupid website so it's in sync with those.

As for the additional monies added to the Budgets for hurricane-related expenses?  I won't be happy if these were appended during the Annual Meeting without notice to the owners, and, I won't be happy if owners at all 8 HHI resorts are being assessed the same fees.  The timing is very concerning, considering that the Annual Meeting agendas - including the Operating Budgets - were already set before the storm hit, and, there hasn't been much time since the storm to assess damage costs and finalize insurance recovery.  This bears close watch at every HHI resort.


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## davidvel (Nov 8, 2016)

SueDonJ said:


> How are you able to access the Operating Budget?  I can see the MF amounts at the "Make Payment" button but there aren't any PDF's attached.
> 
> Whatever MVW is doing differently with MF's in our owners.marriottvacationclub.com accounts (as compared to my-vacationclub.com) is maddening.  I suspect it may have something to do with each owner having individual log-ins not accessible to each other, in addition to whatever other ridiculousness they've managed to integrate into the new website.  I wish they'd bring back the old way of linking the PDF statements in the emails that announce MF's, and fix the stupid website so it's in sync with those.
> 
> As for the additional monies added to the Budgets for hurricane-related expenses?  I won't be happy if these were appended during the Annual Meeting without notice to the owners, and, I won't be happy if owners at all 8 HHI resorts are being assessed the same fees.  The timing is very concerning, considering that the Annual Meeting agendas - including the Operating Budgets - were already set before the storm hit, and, there hasn't been much time since the storm to assess damage costs and finalize insurance recovery.  This bears close watch at every HHI resort.


Another question to ask is whether Marriott is taking their standard 10-15% fee on top of the expenses for disaster damage. If they are this is disgusting.


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## SueDonJ (Nov 8, 2016)

davidvel said:


> Another question to ask is whether Marriott is taking their standard 10-15% fee on top of the expenses for disaster damage. If they are this is disgusting.



And, bingo!  Of course!  I think you've hit on the reason why MVW is rolling the one-time expenses like these, which under MVCI had historically been separately quantified/billed as Special Assessments, into the Reserves.  It's because the 10% Management Fee is assessed on the Reserves.  (I had started a thread a few days ago asking this question, am closing it now.)

It's bad enough how suspect this nice round number of $50/interval on SW's budget looks considering the timing of the storm relative to the Annual Meeting.  But now it's worse.

GGGGGRRRRR.  Color me not happy today.


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## disneymom1 (Nov 8, 2016)

SueDonJ said:


> How are you able to access the Operating Budget?  I can see the MF amounts at the "Make Payment" button but there aren't any PDF's attached.
> 
> Whatever MVW is doing differently with MF's in our owners.marriottvacationclub.com accounts (as compared to my-vacationclub.com) is maddening.  I suspect it may have something to do with each owner having individual log-ins not accessible to each other, in addition to whatever other ridiculousness they've managed to integrate into the new website.  I wish they'd bring back the old way of linking the PDF statements in the emails that announce MF's, and fix the stupid website so it's in sync with those.
> 
> As for the additional monies added to the Budgets for hurricane-related expenses?  I won't be happy if these were appended during the Annual Meeting without notice to the owners, and, I won't be happy if owners at all 8 HHI resorts are being assessed the same fees.  The timing is very concerning, considering that the Annual Meeting agendas - including the Operating Budgets - were already set before the storm hit, and, there hasn't been much time since the storm to assess damage costs and finalize insurance recovery.  This bears close watch at every HHI resort.



I went to my-vacationclub account and looked under view payment/make payment.  On the right corner is a link  view ebilling/invoices.  Under that page is 2017 Surfwatch operating budget.  The $50 fee is listed under expenses.  The total generated from this is $502,100.  Increase in management fee is $4.13 per unit.


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## SueDonJ (Nov 8, 2016)

disneymom1 said:


> I went to my-vacationclub account and looked under view payment/make payment.  On the right corner is a link  view ebilling/invoices.  Under that page is 2017 Surfwatch operating budget.  The $50 fee is listed under expenses.  The total generated from this is $502,100.  Increase in management fee is $4.13 per unit.



At that "View eBilling Invoices & Inserts" link I still get this, _"No ownership fee package(s) currently available."_  Once more, GRRRR.


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## VacationForever (Nov 8, 2016)

SueDonJ said:


> At that "View eBilling Invoices & Inserts" link I still get this, _"No ownership fee package(s) currently available."_  Once more, GRRRR.



Me too... I only get high level breakdown from the "Make Payment" page.


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## BocaBoy (Nov 8, 2016)

sptung said:


> Me too... I only get high level breakdown from the "Make Payment" page.


And I can't even get the online payment to work.  You would think they would have fixed this since last year.


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## SueDonJ (Nov 8, 2016)

I was just on the phone with them for something else.  I'm in a rush so will have to call in the morning to figure out why I still can't see SW's PDF or my Club Dues bill, but in the meantime she did say that she's had multiple calls yesterday/today about the online payment system not working, and they're looking into it.


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## WBP (Nov 9, 2016)

This is an annual event with MVW.

This year, I expect that MVW will have a different source to place blame on their perpetual inability to maintain an operable, efficient website......a hack by Russia.


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## pedro47 (Nov 9, 2016)

l0410z said:


> Look to see what is driving this.   We got a $153 increase (Monarch) that will last for 4 years.   The question I was asked when I posted this was will it go down after 4 years.  I assume yes but based on the question I decided to ask.  Still waiting for a response.  I am assuming Hurricane Matthews is keeping people busy and may impact the answer.



The Hurricane Matthews did a lot of damage along the coast and inland North & South Carolina and the Commonwealth of Virginia. 

Yes! Hurricane Matthews is keeping federal, state, city government, insurance companies and affective residences very busy cleaning up, plus filing insurance and FEMA Claims. There are lots of tree still down and mole damages to thousand homes.

In many areas the federal flood zone is in a mess. Because many areas flooded that were not in the flood zone.


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## MOXJO7282 (Nov 10, 2016)

So I left a detailed message for a Fred Myers in MOW sales who someone directed me to. Not sure why a sales guy would know but no one else could help me at MOW or Corp Marriott so we'll see what he has to say on where this increase comes from.

I again assume its from the hurricane but being left in the dark I have no idea.  If it is then "it is what it is" but what bothers me most is we received no fore warning of the extreme increase coming other then some general comments of possible hurricane related costs.


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## l0410z (Nov 11, 2016)

pedro47 said:


> The Hurricane Matthews did a lot of damage along the coast and inland North & South Carolina and the Commonwealth of Virginia.
> 
> Yes! Hurricane Matthews is keeping federal, state, city government, insurance companies and affective residences very busy cleaning up, plus filing insurance and FEMA Claims. There are lots of tree still down and mole damages to thousand homes.
> 
> In many areas the federal flood zone is in a mess. Because many areas flooded that were not in the flood zone.



I understand what they are going through.  I lost two  cars in my driveway, one in front of my house,  a tree on my deck/roof and 4 feet of water in my basement from Superstorm Sandy.  I also was not in a flood zone .  Recovery is a time consuming process that challenges even the most patient person.  It is a costly process even with insurance, FEMA and loan programs.  I feel for the people impacted and wish a speedy recovery.


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## dioxide45 (Nov 11, 2016)

MOXJO7282 said:


> So I left a detailed message for a Fred Myers in MOW sales who someone directed me to. Not sure why a sales guy would know but no one else could help me at MOW or Corp Marriott so we'll see what he has to say on where this increase comes from.
> 
> I again assume its from the hurricane but being left in the dark I have no idea.  If it is then "it is what it is" but what bothers me most is we received no fore warning of the extreme increase coming other then some general comments of possible hurricane related costs.



You should be contacting your board of directors. THere should be a link in the Owes Association section of the website.

https://owners.marriottvacationclub.com/timeshare/mvco/education/ownersassociationag


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## SnowDogDad (Nov 11, 2016)

Dioxide45 is spot on... Contact your board of directors or your on-site property manager and ask them what is driving this increase.  If your reserves are well funded, 17% is almost unprecedented.  Hurricane insurance might be a good culprit. 

I'm on the HOA board at the Grand Residence Club in Lake Tahoe and I'm active with the HOA at another property that I own. At each meeting, I insist that we include in the minutes of the meeting the key factors that affect budget increases.

Marriott's financial people are very good at reserve budgeting. 

Our reserve budget includes projections 20+ years in to the future and not only projects future expenses such as renovations but big ticket items like roof replacements, concrete resurfacing, painting, elevator repairs, pool/spa pumps, etc... A good property manager includes these things in budget plans and thus helps to minimize significant increases in the reserve portion of the budget.

What is more difficult to project year-to-year is things that you can't control.  Minimum wage increases are a good example.  Satisfying Virginia Graeme Baker Pool & Spa Safety Act is another. Insurance.  Lawsuits. 

I am curious to hear what you find.


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## davidvel (Nov 11, 2016)

SnowDogDad said:


> Our reserve budget includes projections 20+ years in to the future and not only projects future expenses such as renovations but big ticket items like roof replacements, concrete resurfacing, painting, elevator repairs, pool/spa pumps, etc...* A good property manager includes these things in budget plans and thus helps to minimize significant increases in the reserve portion of the budget.*


All these should be included in any reserve budget. In California they are _required to be_, and I'd hope other states as well.


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## SueDonJ (Nov 11, 2016)

_[Content deleted after the included link became disabled due to the TUG board system changes.]_


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## MOXJO7282 (Nov 11, 2016)

So I went on the MVC website and opened up a chat session with an CSR and stated my issue to see if they could direct me to the right person because when I call the resort they've not been responsive. I will try the Board email that I did locate on the website

This chat person mentioned they were aware of a $200 added charge related to the hurricane but couldn't give me anymore details.  If it is a special assessment I'm less concerned because then next year the lower costs apply but if just a straight increase somehow then that will hurt more.


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## MOXJO7282 (Nov 15, 2016)

So there is good news at the end of the day that instead of a significant annual increase there is just the one-time payment of $200 for the hurricane damage for the OceanWatch. For the GO it looks like it was $95 and $50 for the SurfWatch. I'm still awaiting my Harbour Pointe MFs and assume they are determining the same special assessment to apply. 

Nobody wants special assessments but in this case I'd rather is a 1-time fee than annual increase.


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## SueDonJ (Nov 15, 2016)

MOXJO7282 said:


> So there is good news at the end of the day that instead of a significant annual increase there is just the one-time payment of $200 for the hurricane damage for the OceanWatch. For the GO it looks like it was $95 and $50 for the SurfWatch. I'm still awaiting my Harbour Pointe MFs and assume they are determining the same special assessment to apply.
> 
> Nobody wants special assessments but in this case I'd rather is a 1-time fee than annual increase.



Joe, I sent you a PM.  Can you please confirm the exact amount that's on the line item in the Operating Budget PDFs for both Monarch and OceanWatch, so that the posts in the MF's thread can be edited to include this information?  Thanks!


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## MOXJO7282 (Nov 15, 2016)

SueDonJ said:


> Joe, I sent you a PM.  Can you please confirm the exact amount that's on the line item in the Operating Budget PDFs for both Monarch and OceanWatch, so that the posts in the MF's thread can be edited to include this information?  Thanks!



Yes thank you Susan for making me aware of the GO one. I assumed that was just a straight increase so that was welcome news as well. 

As for MOW I was told by 2 different MAR CSRs that it was $200 even but haven't seen written confirmation of this yet. When I do I'll share.


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## SueDonJ (Nov 15, 2016)

MOXJO7282 said:


> Yes thank you Susan for making me aware of the GO one. I assumed that was just a straight increase so that was welcome news as well.
> 
> As for MOW I was told by 2 different MAR CSRs that it was $200 even but haven't seen written confirmation of this yet. When I do I'll share.



Thanks!


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## dioxide45 (Nov 15, 2016)

I am still surprised that these properties are not provisioning to cover for a hurricane deductible in their annual fees. It isn't like they aren't in prime hurricane territory. Sure, this is fairly rare, but chances are sooner or later this would have happened. Had they provisioned for hurricane deductible, they wouldn't be going to the owners asking for a one time SA/payment.

Something I found out about Grande Vista while I attended the annual meetings this year. They have provisioned for and have a $3 million liquidity fund. These funds are set aside for surprise items that are difficult to forecast. They want to avoid having to go to the owners to ask for more money if something were to come up. Now of course, there are other things the Grande Vista board is doing that I don't necessarily agree with, like spreading the millions of dollars they have in reserves across hundreds accounts at hundreds of FDIC insured institutions. I don't want to think of what their funds management costs are for that.


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## SueDonJ (Nov 15, 2016)

dioxide45 said:


> I am still surprised that these properties are not provisioning to cover for a hurricane deductible in their annual fees. It isn't like they aren't in prime hurricane territory. Sure, this is fairly rare, but chances are sooner or later this would have happened. Had they provisioned for hurricane deductible, they wouldn't be going to the owners asking for a one time SA/payment.
> 
> Something I found out about Grande Vista while I attended the annual meetings this year. They have provisioned for and have a $3 million liquidity fund. These funds are set aside for surprise items that are difficult to forecast. They want to avoid having to go to the owners to ask for more money if something were to come up. Now of course, there are other things the Grande Vista board is doing that I don't necessarily agree with, like spreading the millions of dollars they have in reserves across hundreds accounts at hundreds of FDIC insured institutions. I don't want to think of what their funds management costs are for that.



Considering how rare it is for them to have to collect following catastrophic incidents, I'm okay with them not keeping the entire insurance deductible amount in reserves.  I prefer having my money working for me than working for them, and wouldn't want to have to think about them being tempted to misuse accumulated funds for other purposes.  Of course it's the financial histories of my resorts that lead me to be comfortable with this particular item - if I'd felt at any time over our years of ownership that they weren't properly anticipating reserves for routine/responsible maintenance and refurbs, then I wouldn't be as comfortable with this.

I have no idea, though, haven't ever thought about, how they bank the reserves.  What would be the purpose of spreading it all around like GV is doing?


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## Fasttr (Nov 16, 2016)

SueDonJ said:


> What would be the purpose of spreading it all around like GV is doing?



Sounds like they want to assure themselves that all of the funds are fully covered via FDIC insurance, which generally limits coverage to $250K in deposits per depositor, per bank.  So as dioxide45 described it, it sounds like they have $250K in total deposits at a lot of banks.


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## dioxide45 (Nov 16, 2016)

Fasttr said:


> Sounds like they want to assure themselves that all of the funds are fully covered via FDIC insurance, which generally limits coverage to $250K in deposits per depositor, per bank.  So as dioxide45 described it, it sounds like they have $250K in total deposits at a lot of banks.



It is exactly that. They have funds in individual $250K accounts at multiple (hundreds) of institutions. I don't think they do this with the operating fund, just reserves and perhaps taxes. It seems like they are trying to protect against a doomsday scenario.


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## stans2000 (Nov 17, 2016)

*Insurance Deductible*

The Insurance Deductible is $3.6 million. When you divide that by the 18,592 units at Oceanwatch it come to $196 per unit. This is all disclosed in the letter from the Owners Association.

Dear Marriott’s OceanWatch Villas at Grande Dunes Owner,
Thank you for continued prompt payment of your annual maintenance fee. It allows the Association to
manage cash flow needed to provide the best vacation experience possible for all Owners throughout the year.
Your 2017 Maintenance Fee is due in January. As always, you have the option of paying by check, electronic
bank transfer or by credit card. However, we would like to request that you pay by check or by electronic bank
transfer. Credit card fees are estimated to cost the Association more than $336,000 in 2017. If all owners paid
their maintenance fee by check or electronic bank transfer, this would save the Association approximately
$18.07 per unit week in credit card fees, and would allow us to continue to improve your resort while reducing
your maintenance fee by 1.3% per unit week. Many Owners are paying their maintenance fee by check or
electronic bank transfer, and we would like to encourage all Owners to as well to help reduce the maintenance
fee.
As you are probably aware, in October 2016, Hurricane Matthew caused significant damage all along the east
coast, including the Myrtle Beach area. Due to the amount of damage sustained at OceanWatch, the 2017
Maintenance Fee includes a “Disaster Recovery” fee of $200 per unit week to cover the expected insurance
deductible from this event. The total cost of that damage has not yet been determined as work is still being
completed. However, the total cost of repair is expected to far exceed the deductible of $3.67M. The damage
at the resort was considerable and included:
 Four of the five buildings sustained roof damage
 The vast majority of villas sustained water damage causing the need to replace carpeting, remove and
replace drywall, replace baseboards and paint baseboards and walls to prevent mold growth and make the
villas habitable
 The lobby carpet and some drywall has been replaced due to water intrusion
 Water damage to the external walls of the buildings
 The pergola sunshade in front of the Starfish building was destroyed
 A 30-foot stretch of the new beach boardwalk was washed away
 Fallen trees and landscaping damage
The OceanWatch Team has worked tirelessly on our behalf to get the resort back up and running. The resort
started a staged reopening on Friday, October 28, 2016; 20 days after Hurricane Matthew hit and is not
expected to be fully operational until November 19, 2016. Because of the amount of work being done to
reopen, the scheduled refurbishment of the Starfish and Maple buildings has been pushed back to begin in
January 2017 with completion as originally scheduled in March 2017.
Insurance claims are underway to recoup all possible funds from this natural disaster. We hope that you
understand the need for the Disaster Recovery fee. Thank you in advance for your continued support.
If you have any questions regarding your 2017 Maintenance Fee, please email the Board at
mvwowownerboard@vacationclub.com.
Sincerely,
Brian Myers Elizabeth Matthew Birgit Koellner-Gozlan
President Vice President Secretary
Glenda Sanderson Donald Mulligan
Treasurer Director
OceanWatch Villas Owners Association
Board of Directors


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## MOXJO7282 (Nov 17, 2016)

So the hurricane ended up costing us $790 in disaster recovery fees for our MOW and GO weeks.  This makes the true MOW MFs $1215.30 that includes a 3.49% increase over 2016.   For such a wonderful resort that is a manageable cost and increase.


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## tgropp (Nov 21, 2016)

*Marriott acquires Starwood/Sheraton and suddenly Marriott MF's go skyward. What a coincidence !*


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## SueDonJ (Nov 21, 2016)

tgropp said:


> *Marriott acquires Starwood/Sheraton and suddenly Marriott MF's go skyward. What a coincidence !*



Actually, now that the higher-than-expected fee increases at the SC resorts have been fully explained by Marriott, it appears as though most of us who own there understand the situation and don't find fault with Marriott for it.

Other than that, the Marriott, Int'l hotel company's purchase of Starwood's hotel company has nothing whatsoever to do with either of the timeshare companies, Marriott Vacations Worldwide or Vistana Signature Experiences, which were both spun off of the parent companies before the hotel company acquisition was completed.  Other than MVW paying a Management Fee to MI, there is no connection or correlation to the timeshare companies that would enable a MF's spike that would benefit MI and could be hidden.


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## pedro47 (Nov 23, 2016)

I feel the letter from Marriott was a good start explaining the increase.


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## SueDonJ (Dec 2, 2016)

The Barony Beach Operating Budget has been posted today with a similar letter/explanation about the "Disaster Recovery" fee, which at Barony equals $75.00 of the $119.13 increase.


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## aka Julie (Dec 3, 2016)

Two things that have always bothered me about MF fee invoices:

We have to go look for them if we want to be able to spread out our payments for multiple weeks.  Eventually MVCI will get around to notifying us via email or snail mail.  And then it's been hit or miss for at least the last 3 years to be able to pay online.
Why can't they publish the budget the same time as the invoice is issued.  They obviously have it finalized, but it always comes a week or 2 after invoices.  I like to know what I'm paying for.  Guess they think us dumb stooges don't care and pay up for whatever they decide.


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## GreenTea (Dec 3, 2016)

I went to the owner's session at GO two weeks ago.  The speaker said once a storm is named that deductibles change and the GO one was higher than the damage incurred.  I think our extra fee was $97.  He said each of the HH resorts would have a one time recovery fee based on their damage.   He noted Myrtle Beach was much worse with water in a lot of units.   GO only had one unit with water intrusion.


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## pedro47 (Dec 4, 2016)

Dumb question. I just read that Westgate Resorts insurance was going to cover 100% of the fire damage at their Westgate Smoky Mountain Resort located in Gatlinsburg, Tn.
The disaster that hit HHI and TN was both cause by natural forces (water, wind and fire). What is the difference in insurance cover? Westgate is cover and not Marriott.


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## dougp26364 (Dec 4, 2016)

pedro47 said:


> Dumb question. I just read that Westgate Resorts insurance was going to cover 100% of the fire damage at their Westgate Smoky Mountain Resort located in Gatlinsburg, Tn.
> The disaster that hit HHI and TN was both cause by natural forces (water, wind and fire). What is the difference in insurance cover? Westgate is cover and not Marriott.



Many insurance policies have special deductibles for high risk perils in different areas. Where we live, wind/hail damage is something that we know will eventually happen, and the deductible for those loses is considerably higher than are standard deductible for losses from other perils such as fire or theft. I believe California property insurance that covers earthquakes has a separate deductible for that loss vs other losses. Coastal resorts have a separate deductible for hurricane's because they KNOW they will eventually suffer that type of loss. Loss by forest fire likely wasn't one of those things that you know is going to happen in TN. Thus the standard deductible likely applies.........or I could be wrong and Westgate had adequate reserves to cover any deductible but, I sort of doubt that knowing how Westgate operates.


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## dioxide45 (Dec 4, 2016)

pedro47 said:


> Dumb question. I just read that Westgate Resorts insurance was going to cover 100% of the fire damage at their Westgate Smoky Mountain Resort located in Gatlinsburg, Tn.
> The disaster that hit HHI and TN was both cause by natural forces (water, wind and fire). What is the difference in insurance cover? Westgate is cover and not Marriott.


Also, since the loss was more than the deductible at the Westgate, it makes sense to file a claim. For many of the HHI properties, the loss wasn't more than the deductible, or if it was, they are just collecting enough to cover the deductible. I would bet that for the Westgage, the owners will need to cough up a special assessment to cover a deductible unless they have it in reserve. Insurance for the Westgate is not covering 100%, there will still be some deductible and I would expect it to still be a sizable sum. This isn't a $200,000 house they are insuring.


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## Finntastic (Dec 4, 2016)

I am a points owner. My maintenance fees did increase of course.  My question is will we also have a special assessment or some sort of fee?


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## JIMinNC (Dec 4, 2016)

GreenTea said:


> I went to the owner's session at GO two weeks ago.  The speaker said once a storm is named that deductibles change and the GO one was higher than the damage incurred.  I think our extra fee was $97.  He said each of the HH resorts would have a one time recovery fee based on their damage.   He noted Myrtle Beach was much worse with water in a lot of units.   GO only had one unit with water intrusion.





dougp26364 said:


> Many insurance policies have special deductibles for high risk perils in different areas. Where we live, wind/hail damage is something that we know will eventually happen, and the deductible for those loses is considerably higher than are standard deductible for losses from other perils such as fire or theft. I believe California property insurance that covers earthquakes has a separate deductible for that loss vs other losses. Coastal resorts have a separate deductible for hurricane's because they KNOW they will eventually suffer that type of loss. Loss by forest fire likely wasn't one of those things that you know is going to happen in TN. Thus the standard deductible likely applies.........or I could be wrong and Westgate had adequate reserves to cover any deductible but, I sort of doubt that knowing how Westgate operates.



Exactly. A neighbor of ours owns a house in Hilton Head and he said that for a typical storm - like a hail storm or wind storm - standard deductibles apply. But when there is a "named" storm, deductibles shift to a schedule based on a % of the value of the insured structure and are much higher. I think that is because named storms tend to impact very large geographic areas (as did Matthew from Ft Lauderdale north through Virginia Beach) and that results in large potential losses for the insurance underwriters. As a result, they write policies for such events with high deductibles to mitigate those losses somewhat and keep premiums from being even higher than they are already. As dougp said, this might also explain why the Westgate insurance may not have provisions for similarly high deductibles for fires - it's not a peril that is specifically excluded from the standard deductible provisions.


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## dioxide45 (Dec 4, 2016)

Finntastic said:


> I am a points owner. My maintenance fees did increase of course.  My question is will we also have a special assessment or some sort of fee?


Points owners won't have a special assessment. Consider though, DC piont MFs are billed before many of the resorts send out their bills. So your MF this year really isn't taking in to consideration the built in assessments that are being seen at the HHI properties. I think though that Marriott builds in enough of a buffer in the DC MF to that any increase will be inconsequential. Any impact might only move the MF only a few cents per BI.


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## SueDonJ (Dec 4, 2016)

Finntastic said:


> I am a points owner. My maintenance fees did increase of course.  My question is will we also have a special assessment or some sort of fee?



I wonder the same thing, how these "Disaster Recovery" fees are being levied in the DC Trust Operating Budget because Weeks at all of the SC resorts have been conveyed to the Trust, and the Trust is responsible for the MF's on all those conveyed Weeks.  If you get a line item budget for DC Points are you seeing a "Disaster Recovery" item in the Operating Fees?


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## dioxide45 (Dec 4, 2016)

SueDonJ said:


> I wonder the same thing, how these "Disaster Recovery" fees are being levied in the DC Trust Operating Budget because Weeks at all of the SC resorts have been conveyed to the Trust, and the Trust is responsible for the MF's on all those conveyed Weeks.  If you get a line item budget for DC Points are you seeing a "Disaster Recovery" item in the Operating Fees?


I don't think that is the case. The DC maintenance fees were billed out long before these properties added the "Disaster Recovery" fees.


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## SueDonJ (Dec 4, 2016)

dioxide45 said:


> I don't think that is the case. The DC maintenance fees were billed out long before these properties added the "Disaster Recovery" fees.



So these fees should show up in some form in the next budget report for the DC?  I agree with you that because SC Weeks make up only a small percentage of the overall total number of Weeks in the Trust, the total "DR" amount charged to the Trust is practically inconsequential.  But a portion of the total at each individual SC resort should be levied to the Trust in some form or another, shouldn't it?


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## dioxide45 (Dec 4, 2016)

SueDonJ said:


> So these fees should show up in some form in the next budget report for the DC?  I agree with you that because SC Weeks make up only a small percentage of the overall total number of Weeks in the Trust, the total "DR" amount charged to the Trust is practically inconsequential.  But a portion of the total at each individual SC resort should be levied to the Trust in some form or another, shouldn't it?


Yes. The trust will have to pay the same fees as an owner. So the trust will be paying these Disaster Recovery assessments. I would think that if there happens to be a shortfall from what the trust collected and what it has to pay out, MVW will cover it (perhaps with interest) and will ghet it back next year when the DC points MF is adjusted to cover the fee.


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## JIMinNC (Dec 5, 2016)

SueDonJ said:


> So these fees should show up in some form in the next budget report for the DC?  I agree with you that because SC Weeks make up only a small percentage of the overall total number of Weeks in the Trust, the total "DR" amount charged to the Trust is practically inconsequential.  But a portion of the total at each individual SC resort should be levied to the Trust in some form or another, shouldn't it?




It has to be something like this, since the Trust approved their 2017 budget several weeks before most resorts had finalized their own. The Trust was one of the first to produce a 2017 budget and invoice for 2017 maintenance fees, so to do that, they had to make some assumptions about what their "Component Expenses" (their portion of resort maintenance fees) would be for 2017 before the resorts had even finalized their budgets. So they may do their budget based on what they EXPECT the 2017 fees to be from the intervals owned by the Trust. Then, if expenses are higher, they run a negative variance from budget to actual and that gets adjusted in the next calendar year.


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## suzannesimon (Dec 11, 2016)

MOXJO7282 said:


> $242  (17.13%) increase.  The highest 1 yr increase I've personally ever seen.
> This is so disappointing. Not sure yet where the increase comes from but what could it possibly be to have an increase of that magnitude?
> 
> Again another situation where we get no fore warning and it just appears on the website.





MOXJO7282 said:


> $242  (17.13%) increase.  The highest 1 yr increase I've personally ever seen.
> This is so disappointing. Not sure yet where the increase comes from but what could it possibly be to have an increase of that magnitude?
> 
> Again another situation where we get no fore warning and it just appears on the website.



Insurance companies don't lose money for very long.  Our condo association in Delaware told us last year that flood insurance would be increasing 18% per year for a lot of years so they could make up for Hurricane Sandy and other storms on the east coast.   After paying increased fees down here on the Florida panhandle since 2005 for hurricane damage back then, they will finally be reducing premiums for the next year since there haven't been any recent hurricanes.  It's the great unknown for condo associations and timeshares are no different.


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## rsackett (Dec 12, 2016)

Just received an update from the Harbour Point Resort Manager.  Here is the letter:

_"HARBOUR POINT PRESIDENT’S LETTER HARBOUR POINT OWNERS’ ASSOCIATION, INC. 

Dear Marriott’s Harbour Point Owner: 

As you are all probably aware Hilton Head Island and Harbour Point and Sunset Pointe in particular were struck by a Category 2 Hurricane in early October. The Governor of South Carolina issued a mandatory evacuation order effective at 3:00 p.m. on October 5, 2016. Owners and guests were required to vacate the property by 12:00 noon so that the staff could have time to secure the property in order to insure that no one would be injured. The Board commends Rajka Osim, General Manager, and Alex Caballero, Director of Engineering, and their respective staff members for the great work that they have done. First to secure the property and secondly, for their work in coordinating the clean-up and restoration of the resort. 

In addition to untold numbers of downed trees, the resort sustained major damage to a number of the structural components of the infrastructure. For example, the elevators were damaged, the roof was damaged, carpets needed to be replaced, the HVAC system needed to be cleaned and repaired, electrical systems were damaged, trees were uprooted and needed to be removed, water intrusion caused damage which required remediation and clean-up. There were other areas that were also damaged; have only mentioned the major systems that sustained damage. 

As of this writing, the total damage amounts to Harbour Point amounts to approximately $800,000. The Management Team has estimated that this amount will rise to over $1,000,000. The resort is insured for $39,268,869.00 and there is a deductible which is 2% of the insured value, therefore the deductible is $785,377.00. This means that we will be responsible for the entire amount of the damage up to the amount of the deductible. $786,900.00 represents *$183.00 per unit week. This will be a one-time additional cost due entirely to the damage that the property sustained from the hurricane. *

You can be assured that the Management Team on Hilton Head Island is working diligently to restore the resort and bring it back to excellent condition. The Accounting Team is also working diligently to monitor the costs associated with the remediation. 

Sincerely, 

Joie Smith President Harbour Point Owners’ Association, Inc. Board of Directors"_

Ray


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## SueDonJ (Dec 13, 2016)

rsackett said:


> Just received an update from the Harbour Point Resort Manager.  Here is the letter:
> 
> _"HARBOUR POINT PRESIDENT’S LETTER HARBOUR POINT OWNERS’ ASSOCIATION, INC.
> 
> ...



First, Ray, I hope you don't mind that I edited the formatting in your post?  I'll also be including a link to it in the Harbour Point post in the MF's thread.

Most of the SC resorts included a "Disaster Recovery" fee in the Operating Budgets for 2017.  Of those reported to TUG only HP and Monarch* didn't, so it doesn't come as a surprise that you've gotten this letter.  Can you share whether this is showing as a separate invoice in your account, and the payment due date?  Thanks!

* As for Monarch, they're already a couple years into a non-hurricane-related 4-year Special Assessment so it will be interesting to see if/when they assess owners for these damages.


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## rsackett (Dec 13, 2016)

SueDonJ said:


> First, Ray, I hope you don't mind that I edited the formatting in your post?  I'll also be including a link to it in the Harbour Point post in the MF's thread.
> 
> Most of the SC resorts included a "Disaster Recovery" fee in the Operating Budgets for 2017.  Of those reported to TUG only HP and Monarch* didn't, so it doesn't come as a surprise that you've gotten this letter.  Can you share whether this is showing as a separate invoice in your account, and the payment due date?  Thanks!
> 
> * As for Monarch, they're already a couple years into a non-hurricane-related 4-year Special Assessment so it will be interesting to see if/when they assess owners for these damages.



First - I do not mind a bit.

Second I have already paid my 2017 Maint Fees, and the charge mentioned in this letter is not showing up yet on My-VacationClub.

Ray


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## mash84121 (Dec 13, 2016)

For the $183.00 at HP, it was included in the MF.  If you look at the line items on the MF, I believe it was listed as Disaster Recovery.  So we won't see a separate charge for $183.00 on the website as it is already included.  They do not show the 2017 insert on the website yet, but you should have received it in the mail a week or two ago that shows the line items for the MF.


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## rsackett (Dec 13, 2016)

mash84121 said:


> For the $183.00 at HP, it was included in the MF.  If you look at the line items on the MF, I believe it was listed as Disaster Recovery.  So we won't see a separate charge for $183.00 on the website as it is already included.  They do not show the 2017 insert on the website yet, but you should have received it in the mail a week or two ago that shows the line items for the MF.



I paid $1,273.06 online and it does not show the $183.00 charge.  

What did you pay?

Ray


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## SueDonJ (Dec 13, 2016)

mash84121 said:


> For the $183.00 at HP, it was included in the MF.  If you look at the line items on the MF, I believe it was listed as Disaster Recovery.  So we won't see a separate charge for $183.00 on the website as it is already included.  They do not show the 2017 insert on the website yet, but you should have received it in the mail a week or two ago that shows the line items for the MF.



Ah!  Thank you!  The post in the 2017 MF's thread for HP didn't have a breakdown, showed only a 2.3% increase over 2016 so I assumed (I know, I know!) that the hurricane-related damages hadn't been included.  Looking back to the 2016 thread I now see that the Operating Fee increase of $205.90, which includes the "Disaster Recovery" line item, was offset by a steep decrease of $177.44 in the Reserve Fee.  I'll edit the MF post again so that it reads like the other SC resorts.

So, have any Monarch owners received the PDF and can share details re any hurricane-related line items that are included?  Thanks!

Also, this might be a good place to drop a reminder that if there are multiple owners on an MVW account, each should register with their own log-in information on owners.marriottvacationclub.com, because MVW attaches the MF PDF's to only one.  In the case of mine and Don's ownership I had always done everything through the one account registered in my name, but we've had to register with an online account for Don in order to see the posted MF packages.  So I'm still doing all the work through a single account but now it's the one in his name, not mine.  If you're not seeing posted MF PDF's you may want to consider if this is in play.


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## mash84121 (Dec 13, 2016)

rsackett said:


> I paid $1,273.06 online and it does not show the $183.00 charge.
> 
> What did you pay?
> 
> Ray


I paid $1273 as well.  You only see the $183 on the itemized breakdown of your MF, where it breaks down all of the Operational Costs.  They added a line item for Disaster Recovery for $183.


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## l0410z (Dec 13, 2016)

SueDonJ said:


> So, have any Monarch owners received the PDF and can share details re any hurricane-related line items that are included?  Thanks!
> 
> ]



I emailed the GM a couple of weeks because my wife and I are thinking about purchasing another week at the Monarch and I wanted to know this information in case we do.   It appears the Monarch was  lucky.  The expenses related to  Hurricane Mathew is  estimated to be between $207K and $300K once all bills are reconciled     This will be covered by the Monarch Operating fund which had a surplus.  There is no assessment required.    I am guessing nothing is going out since it had no impact to MF.  I did ask the person in charge of the Monarch Owners website to update it with this information. The insurance deductible is 846K so with 6150 units, the max the assessment would have been is about $138.


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## DennisN (Dec 13, 2016)

I was wondering if the disaster recovery charge could be used during income tax filing.  Unfortunately, there is a $100 deductible for each incident.  https://turbotax.intuit.com/tax-tools/tax-tips/Tax-Deductions-and-Credits/About-Casualty-Deduction-for-Federal-Income-Tax/INF14772.html

I am thankful that this may be the only additional cost to staying at a beautiful property and look forward to our next visit in March 2017.

*Moderator Note:*  Post moved from MF's sticky thread.



> * This includes a one-time "Disaster Recovery" charge in the Operating Fee of $75.00 for damages/expenses caused by Hurricane Matthew. See the cover letter and footnotes that accompany the MF's package; note any overage above insurance recovery will be reimbursed, and, this amount is not included in the calculation of MVW's Management Fee.


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## SueDonJ (Dec 13, 2016)

l0410z said:


> I emailed the GM a couple of weeks because my wife and I are thinking about purchasing another week at the Monarch and I wanted to know this information in case we do.   It appears the Monarch was  lucky.  The expenses related to  Hurricane Mathew is  estimated to be between $207K and $300K once all bills are reconciled     This will be covered by the Monarch Operating fund which had a surplus.  There is no assessment required.    I am guessing nothing is going out since it had no impact to MF.  I did ask the person in charge of the Monarch Owners website to update it with this information. The insurance deductible is 846K so with 6150 units, the max the assessment would have been is about $138.



If you've received the 2017 Operating Budget or can access it on owners.marriottvacationclub.com, can you confirm that it does NOT include a "Disaster Recovery" line item?  If not, it'll be the only (out of all those that have been posted in the MF's thread) SC resort that doesn't.  For what it's worth, those resorts are also collecting only what's needed to cover the catastrophic insurance deductible.

Did the email from Monarch explain why/how there was that much of a surplus available?  Maybe it's just me but I'd be concerned that they're not correctly estimating operating costs, especially as they're currently mid-way through a 4-year Special Assessment period.  If they're sitting on a surplus wouldn't it basically consist of the SA they're in the middle of collecting, that they said they needed to cover necessary repairs/costs that weren't projected?


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## MOXJO7282 (Dec 13, 2016)

See below for excerpts from the Operating Budget. Quick summary it is included in the maintenance fees already disclosed by HP.


Operating Fee The 2017 Net Operating Fee is budgeted to increase by $23.50 (2.6%) per unit week. Our major challenge in this area continues to be recruiting associates to the island. This is due to the continued development, and related employment opportunities, off the island. Marriott Vacation Club has conducted a salary comparison study in the area for comparable jobs, and there is a need to increase hourly wages. It is a modest increase, but the amount multiplies when considering the number of associates in labor intensive roles such as Housekeeping, Engineering, and Loss Prevention. 

Reserve Fee The 2017 Reserve Fee will not increase for 2017 and we hope not for next year as well. This Reserve Fee allows us to set aside funds for required maintenance items (the Feature Pool renovation project for example), yearly projects as well as major refurbishments (the Lobby refurbishment). Our goal is to manage your Reserve dollars through a comprehensive 20-year plan so that the resort will continue to be a great place to vacation both now and in the future. We are in a strong position for both current and future plans. 

Disaster Recovery Fee For 2017, we will have a one-time Disaster Recovery Fee. As we write this letter we are still impacted by Hurricane Matthew. Initial clean-up and damage has been addressed and the resort is operational. However, we continue to find problems both from wind damage and salt water corrosion due to the storm that Harbour Point experienced. We carry insurance for catastrophic damage; however, the deductible is 2% of the value of the resort. Unfortunately, to cover this deductible, a one-time Disaster Recovery Fee of $183.00 per unit week will be required. We are confident that this will be the only financial impact to Owners to address the worst natural disaster to impact Hilton Head Island in over 100 years. We regret the need for the additional charge, but also feel quite lucky compared with many other resorts and homeowners on the southeast coast. 

Summary The 2017 Operating Fund budget results in an increase of $23.50 while the 2017 Reserve Fund budget results in a decrease of $177.68.* The one-time Disaster Recovery Fee of $183.00 will bring the total 2017 Maintenance Fee increase to $28.82. *We thank you for your investment in Harbour Point! We are working hard to return the resort to 100% and it will be ready for your return. Thanks for your help in making Harbour Point special. We look forward to seeing you in 2017!


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## dioxide45 (Dec 13, 2016)

So without the DR fee, they would have had a decrease in the overall MF fee of over $150?


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## MOXJO7282 (Dec 13, 2016)

They've lowered the reserve fee for some reason and that counter balanced the DR increase.


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## SueDonJ (Dec 13, 2016)

I'm getting more confused now between Monarch and Harbour Point both being discussed.  But yes, at HP it appears that they've offset the DR fee with a decrease in the Reserve Fee.  That's somewhat worrisome and bears watching next year because you don't want the normal Reserves to be underfunded.

Monarch is even more worrisome because it has suffered hurricane-related damage but it's the only one (of those reported) that is saying they have a surplus to cover the deductible.  Either way, whether they have a surplus or they're off-setting it by a decrease in the Reserves, you have to take into consideration the ongoing 4-year Special Assessment that's already being levied.  While a decrease in the MF's during an SA is questionable, covering the unforeseen catastrophic insurance deductible with a surplus during an SA doesn't make any sense.

At both resorts I'd like to confirm that the "Disaster Recovery" fees are shown as a line-item on the detailed Operating Budget and whether they're itemized as an "Operating Fee" or "Reserves", and, that the DR is not a factor in MVW's Management Fee.  Owners?


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## dioxide45 (Dec 13, 2016)

Perhaps with Monarch already doing a complete renovation of the units, those renovations fix a lot of what hurricane damage there was? Don't need to fix something twice.


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## dioxide45 (Dec 13, 2016)

SueDonJ said:


> At both resorts I'd like to confirm that the "Disaster Recovery" fees are shown as a line-item on the detailed Operating Budget and whether they're itemized as an "Operating Fee" or "Reserves", and, that the DR is not a factor in MVW's Management Fee. Owners?


Even if it is a line item on the budget, it is possible that they still exclude it from the management fee. Grande Vista has a large village enhancement project a few years ago. Paying for that came out of the reserves but I think Marriott only got half the management fees on the funds targeted to that project. That is why whenever I calculated it, the management fee never seemed to calculate out to 10%.


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## SueDonJ (Dec 14, 2016)

dioxide45 said:


> Even if it is a line item on the budget, it is possible that they still exclude it from the management fee. Grande Vista has a large village enhancement project a few years ago. Paying for that came out of the reserves but I think Marriott only got half the management fees on the funds targeted to that project. That is why whenever I calculated it, the management fee never seemed to calculate out to 10%.



Attached is a PDF file of Barony's 2017 MF's package.  Page 2 shows that the DR is a line-item in the Operating Fees and there's a footnote about it not being included in the Management Fee calculations.  It's been confirmed by owners at all reported SC resorts except Monarch that the same format was used; I'm now looking for something similar from Monarch owners.


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## l0410z (Dec 14, 2016)

Monarch - I looked at the breakdown of the MF and it  does not contain any line items nor notes that suggest money is being used for Hurricane Matthew's.  The reserve fee had no increase and the operating budget went up $34 oe 3.7 percent.  As mentioned above, any damages are being handled by surplus dollars in the budget. Above  Dioxide45 suggested it could be a displacement of money set aside for the renovation.  I actually thought the same thing.  I think the total surplus in the budget was 360K.  From a previous update to owners about 25 units had damages but I do not know to what extent.  

Until questioned above, I gave no thought to the reason for the surplus.  It came up as an answer to a question and I do not  believe email is conducive for explanations of unasked questions.   Just as a side. I also do not think the HOA  planned poorly and as such was the reason for the assessment.   Other owners at the Monarch could feel differently.   BTW, I am not friends with anyone on the board and in fact have no idea who is on the  board. The liaison to the board has been responsive when I have reached out to her.  The Monarch is a small property so I believe the GM handles all of Marriott's Sea Pine properties.  She has been very responsive when I have reached out to her.   When email is an ineffective way to communicate she has taken my call.   I trust the GM and HOA ares doing the best they can and looking out for the owners. 

This all being said I did call the GM and left a message.  I had a couple of other things in the email that I need to discuss so i will ask about the surplus and if the cost of repairs is leaving a hole in the reserve fund.


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## alexb (Dec 15, 2016)

[Re Heritage Club] we just got our 2017 fees and they have increased from $1600 to $1950
Are there similar increases at other Hilton head resorts


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## Fasttr (Dec 15, 2016)

See info in this thread....
_[Link disabled after threads merged. <-- SueDonJ]_


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## SueDonJ (Dec 15, 2016)

alexb said:


> we just got our 2017 fees and they have increased from $1600 to $1950
> Are there similar increases at other Hilton head resorts



Yes, and I've merged your thread with an ongoing one related to the Hurricane Matthew "Disaster Recovery" fees that we're seeing at all of the SC resorts.  Will you please consider posting the Heritage Club MF's in the forum's sticky thread:  Marriott 2017 Maintenance Fees ??  If you take a look at the posts for Barony, Grande Ocean, etc you'll see the format being used to delineate these one-off fees.  Thank you!


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