# Possible Resale WM Newbie - How hard to book resorts?



## Lisa P (May 1, 2016)

We are thinking about a small purchase of a resale WorldMark contract.  Over a period of 5-6 years, *starting in 2017 or 2018*, we hope to spend a summer week at or near several WorldMark resorts, such as:

*Yellowstone* / West Yellowstone, ID
*Bryce & Zion* / St. George, UT
*Rocky Mountains* / Estes Park, CO
*Canadian Rockies* / Banff
*Vancouver/Victoria/Seattle*
- No plans to trade the WM credits, so no need to maintain an II/RCI membership.
- Usually *prefer a 1BR, may need a 2BR* on one of these trips.
- Would probably bank/borrow to make reservations.
- No plans to use Bonus Time or last minute travel since we're in the eastern U.S.
- Our Wyndham points have spoiled us with the freedom to book reservations internally, no exchange company fees.

So how difficult is it to reserve *a prime summer week at these resort destinations*?

How much advance planning would we need to do?

Would it make it more difficult (or impossible) to get these reservations if some of the credits used are banked or borrowed or rented?

*How many credits* should we look for in a contract, at minimum, to do this?

How many credits on a contract would give us the most bang for the buck on purchase and maint fees?

I'm pretty comfortable with a reasonable resale price for credits, selecting a "Premier" contract, not Standard, and checking for numbers of credits which are banked, available in the current use year, and available to borrow.

*Anything else we need to consider when looking at a potential resale contract?*  Thanks in advance.


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## K2Quick (May 1, 2016)

I'd look to buy a 10,000 point contract if I were you.  That will get you a 2BR red season unit in a lot of locations and you can rent in the extra points you need for between 7 cents and 7.5 cents per credit.  A lot of people have 6,000 point contracts and just rent everything in beyond that amount that they need. Unless you are really strapped for cash, I wouldn't go with a 6,000 point contract.  The best value points to buy WM contracts are on each 5,000 point break (i.e., 5,000, 10,000, 15,000, 20,000 points, etc.).  MF on a 6,000 point contract are now $610.18 per year; MF on a 10,000 point contract are $752.43 per year.

Reservations in peak season at popular resorts do require that you're online or on the phone when reservations open at the 13-month mark, but you can almost always get them.  If you don't just waitlist, and you'll get the rooms you want pretty much all of the time.


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## rhonda (May 1, 2016)

Point requirements for the intended properties in summer season:

Yellowstone / West Yellowstone, ID
* 1BR:  11,000
* 2BR:  13,000

Bryce & Zion / St. George, UT
* 1BR: 8,000 - 9,000
* 2BR: 10,000 - 11,000

Rocky Mountains / Estes Park, CO
* 1BR: 8,000 - 9,000
* 2BR: 10,000 - 11,000

Canadian Rockies / Banff
* 1BR: 10,000
* 2BR: 12,000

Vancouver
* 1BR: 8,000
* 2BR: 10,000

Victoria
* 2BR: 10,000

Seattle
* 1BR: 11,500
* 2BR: 14,000 - 16,000

From these, I'd suggest a minimum 10k account for simplicity in dues structure and "near fit" for mostly 1BR uses.  Of the resorts above, the most difficult bookings will likely be Yellowstone and Seattle.  For Yellowstone summer weeks, expect to use the Waitlist but be encouraged knowing that the Waitlist is a powerful and useful tool.  

As for the question of Advanced Planning:  For prime season travel, book these (or open your waitlist, if needed) right at the 13 month window.  I've even used throwaway dates leading up to a prime reservation -- but I don't think these will require that extra effort.


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## VacationForever (May 1, 2016)

I believe effective beginning of this year we cannot use throwaway days to circumvent high season bookings.


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## clifffaith (May 1, 2016)

What is a throw away day??


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## VacationForever (May 1, 2016)

clifffaith said:


> What is a throw away day??



You used to be able to chain together different resorts so that you can book dates that include both inside and outside of the 13th month window.  You then throwaway (forfeit) the first part of the reservation.  As of beginning of this year if you cannot do so anymore.  All resorts have to fall within the 13th month window.


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## ronparise (May 1, 2016)

sptung said:


> I believe effective beginning of this year we cannot use throwaway days to circumvent high season bookings.



Of course you can.

Worldmark allows reservations longer than 7 nights so it is quite possible to reserve 8 9 or 10 days but only use 7

The recent change to the grouped reservations rule doesent change that


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## VacationForever (May 1, 2016)

ronparise said:


> Of course you can.
> 
> Worldmark allows reservations longer than 7 nights so it is quite possible to reserve 8 9 or 10 days but only use 7
> 
> The recent change to the grouped reservations rule doesent change that



Yes, I am referring to grouped reservations where throwaway dates/resorts happen.


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## ronparise (May 1, 2016)

sptung said:


> Yes, I am referring to grouped reservations where throwaway dates/resorts happen.



But that's not the only type of throwaway day and it's still possible to get the most popular reservations  at 13 months


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## uscav8r (May 1, 2016)

sptung said:


> I believe effective beginning of this year we cannot use throwaway days to circumvent high season bookings.



It was actually a change to the grouped reservation segment booking policy that now prevents jumping the 13 month window. "Throwaway/lead-in days" are still allowed, but these must all be booked at the 13 month window anyway.


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## taterhed (May 1, 2016)

You didn't say how may days (week days and week ends....) you plan to use each year.  It makes a huge difference in the points cost depending on whether you want 7-10 days (with just one weekend) or whether you're trying to book a full 2 weeks each year with 2 full weekends.

*I'd recommend a minimum 10k account for 7-10 days a year (2br) in those locations.  *

If you're trying to do more than 7 days in a 2 br unit (and that's tight for the locations you mentioned) you'll easily spend 15-17K points.  These points will cost the same to rent or own.  If you want to get more for your money.... I'd suggest an alternative plan:



First I qualify my recommendation:  If you are NOT detail oriented, if you don't like to shop for 'good deals' and save points etc... then ignore my suggestions below.  If you are a 'book it once and done' kind of person...don't even read my points under this.  OK?


Buy two WM accounts.  A 10k/5k (preferred) or 7k/7k or 10k/7k etc....   something between 10k and 17k points.  5k/7k/10k are the most efficient (unless you go higher).
Having two WM accounts costs just a little bit more ($150 a year?) but gives you twice (2x) the ability to save points and make some on-the-fly reservations.  Hey, plans change, health changes, fires happen, snow storms...you name it.  Flexibility (if possible) really can save the day.
Two accounts means 2x bonus, ability to book and re-book, book early, rebook on bonus/special,  make on-line bonus reservations simultaneously etc....


There is lots published on this.  Others will comment.  Here's the real dish:  Don't pay more than $0.40 cents per point--all in (including $299 transfer) for a fully loaded account.  Fully loaded meaning 10k bank, 10k avail, 10k to borrow (2hkt, 1 to borrow).  I've seen prices going closer to $0.30 lately (not exactly loaded etc...) but certainly under $0.40 is possible.  Go to WmOwners and browse away.  



If you have specific questions, I'll be glad to share what I know.  I'm certainly not an expert, but have done my research and love my WM.


IMHO, YMMV  good luck!


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## VacationForever (May 1, 2016)

uscav8r said:


> It was actually a change to the grouped reservation segment booking policy that now prevents jumping the 13 month window. "Throwaway/lead-in days" are still allowed, but these must all be booked at the 13 month window anyway.



This change helps level the playing field for booking highly desired locations at 13 month.


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## Lisa P (May 1, 2016)

This is excellent, helpful info... thank you so much!  It seems that 10K (or maybe 12K) would work well for us.  We would most likely use it for a single vacation week, Sat-Sat, in most years, at least initially, due to our work schedules.  For our week-long trips, we tend to book it and keep it.  With just two of us, we're less likely to need to change reservations later.

Thanks for the heads-up on early planning, right at 13 months, and using the waitlist.  I wish Club Wyndham had waitlists!  With WorldMark, are you able to request "any Saturday check-in for 7 nights between these dates" on the waitlist?  Or do you have to make separate 7 night waitlist requests and then cancel them all, once one of them is fulfilled?  Thank you again.  Lovin' TUGGERS!


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## taterhed (May 2, 2016)

Waitlists are at 8 (total) right now, but coming down to 4 (total) probably by the time you enter the fray.

You can put in a single waitlist (earliest check-in day, latest, min/max number of days to accept, 1st/2nd choice on size).  You can put in nested waitlists (and keep updated them to reflect gathered days).

Remember:  Worldmark doesn't turn on the 'fri-fri' or 'sat-sat' wheel.  You can check-in any day and stay any number of days (advance reservations require 7days min, sat/sun rules etc....).  This would allow you (if you could use it) to put in a waitlist that spanned Friday-Sunday check-ins; that's just one waitlist.  So, you can initially WL for 4 resorts.  You can then cancel the waitlists or just let them ride--they'll expire if you don't respond to the hits. 

What you will see:  powerful renters/owners will snag reservations and roll the grouped reservations to get weekends. They will ultimately orphan days between weekends.  When the weekends don't rent...they will be dumped back on the market (or just random cancels).  Thus, the strategy, if you don't get your 7 days at 13 mos, becomes re-building the reservation from mid-week days to grab the weekend(s).  It's not that hard, but requires some attention (for the hard to get dates/resorts).  This is why two accounts can be helpful.  

I suggest you post some specific questions 'how hard to reserve' here and on WMOwners to see just how tough those dates/locations are to get.

Also, at 13 mos, if you can't book fast enough to get what you want, you can book any portion of what you want (assuming all 7 days aren't available) and then waitlist the remaining days. That's the more usual process.


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## ronparise (May 2, 2016)

in my estimation there are two kinds of hard to get reservations 

1) some locations are high demand all year or for a fairly long season. Hawaii all year, and the Ocean front resorts (on both coasts). 

2) events, like Comic Con in San Diego, Coachilla in Indio, Octoberfest in Leavenworth, Mardi Gras in New Orleans


The recent changes in the grouped reservation rules leveled the playing field so that every owner has an equal chance of getting these hard to get reservations and you cant use "tricks" to increase your chances.. What you see on the 4 month calendar as available , after the reservation window closes for the night,  (tomorrows availability) is open to all of us and will be available to reserve at 6 am pacific time the next morning

for example look at the calendar for Keihi. There are no 3 bedrooms available for check in June 2 2017 thirteen months from today. However there are  between 2 and 4 available tomorrow  for check in June 3. In the past a savvy owner could make a grouped reservation with one day somewhere else and at least 6 days at Kehei and grab all that availability for themselves... no more,  we all have to wait until tomorrow at 6 to try for one of those reservations. Thats what the new rule did, in this case we all have to wait until tomorrow

So what can a guy that wants to check in on June 5th do to increase his chances of success. My suggestion is to try tomorrow for a 9 day reservation and if he misses it come back the next day for an 8 day reservation and if he misses it come back the next day for the 7 day reservation. In other words, give yourself 3 trys at your reservation   And if you get it you have extra days .... throw away days

The second type of hard to get reservation is events.. My example  is Mardi Gras. and the most popular reservation is for check in the Friday before Mardi Gras.  The problem is if you wait until exactly 13 months in advance of that Friday, everything will be gone. So the way to guarantee your reservation is to add some extra days ahead of your desired check in... throw away days.  I have a reservation for 8 days checking in on Feb 21 and checking out on Mar 1 2017 but I wont arrive until Fri the 24th... so my room will be vacant 3 days.   ... throw away days


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## taterhed (May 2, 2016)

That's a great post ^^^^^  Thanks Ron


I'm not sure (just been gawking at them the last few weeks)
but I think Yellowstone, Victory, Seattle and Vancouver can be tough in the peak months.  Depends on how picky you are on room size.  I'm looking at Victoria/Seattle this week for a combined Vancouver Interwest reservation.....

good luck!


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## ronparise (May 2, 2016)

taterhed said:


> That's a great post ^^^^^  Thanks Ron
> 
> 
> I'm not sure (just been gawking at them the last few weeks)
> ...



They are tough 

What I didnt say in my previous posts is that a little advanced planning can help.. Watch the booking patterns for several days leading up to your target  "make-a reservation day". You may decide that you want to invest in some throw away days to better your chances, or you might see that that's just not necessary

the problem you may need to overcome with your combined reservation is that by the time you can make the second leg of your grouped reservation (6 am 13 months in advance) the first leg may be completely booked

heres a strategy you can use. 

step 1. at 6 am exactly 13 months in advance of your first leg, make a 7 day reservarion at the first resort, then 
step 2. at 6 am 3 (or 4) days later, exactly 13 months ahead of your second leg, make a 7 day reservation at the second resort

so now you have two overlapping 7 day reservations

step 3.  call to make a grouped reservation, take the first 3 days of reservation #1 and group it with the first 4 days of reservation #2 and drop the last 3 or 4 days of each reservation

You need extra credits to do this but they will be returned to your account as soon as step 3 is complete and you will be left with the grouped reservation you want


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## PearlCity (May 20, 2016)

So I checked just now:

Seattle--Has been hard to get a 2 bedroom for summer--there are only 6 and you have to be fast and check. I snagged one for myself in early June but right now, if you wanted to book today at 13 months out, there is nothing available for 2 bedrooms.  1 bedrooms and studios are wide open.

Vancouver is wide open. 

West Yellowstone--rooms available for early June but beginning the 2nd week of June, rooms are booked up and difficult to get.

Victoria is pretty wide open as well. 

All Oregon coast is wide open except for the coveted 3 bedroom oceanfront at seaside everyone talks about.  But If you want any other 3 bedroom or 3 bedroom deluxe you could book today.

Utah St George-Wide open.

Colorado Estes Park -Wide Open.

Canadian Rockies Wide open as well.

In general I found that it's not terribly hard to book except at places like Marina Dunes, Hawaii.  I've even been able too book Leavenworth during Xmas 2 years in a row but have not been able to make it there so I cancelled.


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## Lisa P (May 20, 2016)

Wonderful info!!!!    Thank you so much for posting this!    It verifies what I had expected and hoped.  Thanks again!


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## PearlCity (May 23, 2016)

Lisa P said:


> Wonderful info!!!!    Thank you so much for posting this!    It verifies what I had expected and hoped.  Thanks again!



No problem, please message me or post here if you need me to check other locations. or have questions.

Hawaii seems to be also hard to book in the summer (well year round) but  I've been checking and if you get on at 6 am and you're fast, it seems possible. Waitlisting also seems to work.


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