# Hilton vs Marriott



## Smyrnian (May 24, 2012)

Just beginning to test the timeshare waters. Learning lots thanks to TUG. At time of this posting, Seth Nock's site has the following for sale:

HGVC on International Dr, 2 bdr, platinum @ $13,500

and 

Marriott Grande Vista, 2 bdr platinum @ $5,500.

Quite a disparity in buy-in price for what would seem to be rather comparable vacations.

Would appreciate comments as to why this big difference. Is Hilton that much better of a timeshare experience?

Thanks.


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## GregT (May 24, 2012)

Smyrnian said:


> Just beginning to test the timeshare waters. Learning lots thanks to TUG. At time of this posting, Seth Nock's site has the following for sale:
> 
> HGVC on International Dr, 2 bdr, platinum @ $13,500
> 
> ...



Welcome to TUG!

Both timeshare properties (and the network of other affiliated properties) are terrific.  There are two differences that I believe result in the price difference that you've seen.

The first difference is the value of the system that you are buying into.  With HGVC, you can have the option of using your home week at I-Drive, or using the points that property is worth, and using your points as a currency to reserve other properties.  As an example, you would likely receive 7,000 HGVC points, which you could use to visit Las Vegas or Hawaii, and reserve another 2BR property worth 7,000 points.  However, HGVC's properties are heavily concentrated in Las Vegas/Orlando/Hawaii.

With Marriott, you can also stay at your home week at Grande Vista,  However, Marriott doesn't have an internal point system (that you can access by buying resale) and if you wish to visit one of Marriott's other properties, you must trade through Interval International (which is much much less reliable/predictable than using the point system).  Marriott has much more diversified properties/locations, but accessing them is challenging.

The second difference is that Hilton has been exercising Right of First Refusal and buying back properties, whereas Marriott hasn't been exercising ROFR.  This has provided support for the Hilton pricing lately (prices were below $1/point, whereas now appear to be $1+ per point) because bidders need to offer more to ensure they actually get the property.  It's a pain going through all the paperwork/etc only to have HGVC intercept your transaction.

I love both -- but for different reasons.  Please tell us more of what you are trying to do and maybe we'll have some creative idea?

Best,

Greg


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## capjak (May 24, 2012)

I would also consider Starwood Sheraton Vistana Villages 2 bedroom Bella or Key west phase as these both come with the option of "81,000 Staroptions" to use at all of there other timeshares much like Hilton but with in my op more locations of interest.


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## pianodinosaur (May 24, 2012)

We own with both Marriott and HGVC.  We purchased HGVC direct and we purchased Marriott resale.  Marriott has many more locations than HGVC.  However, Marriott has a very difficult internal exchange system and the new Marriott point system is not user friendly.  Marriott exchanges with II and HGVC exchanges with RCI.  HGVC treats the resale owner the same way it treats those who purchase direct with the exception of Elite Benefits.  The HGVC internal exchange system is very user friendly and HGVC trades very well within RCI.  Marriott definitely limits the options a resale owner may exercise.  However, upon arrival at Marriott facilities we have been treated very well.  Marriott trades pretty well within II.  I think HHonors is a better hotel rewards system than Marriott Rewards, however, Marriott Rewards is still a very good system.  Marriott has some hotel resorts in locations that Hilton does not and Hilton has some hotel resorts in locations that Marriott does not.  I prefer HGVC overall due to its flexibility.  However, owning at Marriott has increased our travel options.

I really don't think you can go wrong with either HGVC or Marriott.  You are very wise to purchase resale with either system.  You are also very wise to work with Seth Nock.  He is definitely one of the most highly respected people in the resale business.


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## Tamaradarann (May 24, 2012)

*HGVC Precise Locations and Point Flexibility*



Smyrnian said:


> Just beginning to test the timeshare waters. Learning lots thanks to TUG. At time of this posting, Seth Nock's site has the following for sale:
> 
> HGVC on International Dr, 2 bdr, platinum @ $13,500
> 
> ...



The Hilton Point System is very flexible.  It is just like having a vacation bank account that can be used to book HGVC timeshare vacations.  You can book any size and any location subject to availabiltiy.  The only benefit that you don't get when you buy resales is the Elite program which most TUG members feel is not worth the extra cost of buying direct from Hilton.  The Marriott system is not as flexible and it has more restrictions when buying resale.

Furthermore, while Mariott has more locations and the resorts are beautiful, the precise location of the Hilton Timeshare is more desirable if you don't want to have a car.  The Hilton Hawaiian Village, HGVC at South Beach and the West 57 Street NYC locations are extremely prime walkable locations in 3of the most desirable cities to vacation in the world.  Mariott timeshare locations on Oahu in Hawaii and in Miami are no where near where you want to be if you want to be in the prime location and not need a car to get there.  I don't think that Marriott has a timeshare in NYC at all.


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## jdunn1 (May 24, 2012)

If I could own only one timeshare it would definately be a Marriott week.  It is very true that Marriott's lack of an internal trade system for all owners is unfair, at best.  But, if you own a Marriott week you get preference in Interval and that preference has been very powerful as of late.  For a resale owner, it is nearly impossible to get summer Carolina weeks via a trade.  It is also really difficult to trade into Crystal Shores for prime weeks.  Some of the Hawaii resorts are hard to get, but not impossible.  Really, the only trade that is nearly impossible for Marriott owners on such a constant basis are the early and mid summer weeks at any of the beach front Carolina resorts.

The cost for both the timeshares you quoted above is high. That Hilton week should be under 10k and that Marriott week should be closer to 1k. A big difference, I know.

A HGVC owner should correct me if I am wrong, but I think there is only a very limited window when non-W57 street owners can trade in.  Maybe it is something like 30 days before check-in?  I'd actually like to know the rules for that property.  And you can NOT trade into the other Hilton NY timeshare.  

Marriott just has so many prime locations and resorts, it's a hands down winner for me.  Also, you can lock-off the Marriott week and get two exchanges each year.  There are some limitation, but it's relatively easy to turn that one Marriott week into two trades.

Personally, if I were buying a Hilton, I would buy one of the 8,400 point Hawaii Bay Club weeks.  Total cost for that week should be in the 5k-8k range and dues are only 250 dollars more or so than the Orlando properties.


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## dougp26364 (May 25, 2012)

IMHO,

HGVC has a better internal exchange system.
HGVC has lower MF's

Quality for both is about equal

Marriott has far more locations in desirable places than HGVC

We own a 2 bedroom week with HGVC and two 3 bedroom units with Marriott. While I would consider buying another Marriott, I have no real desire to add to our HGVC ownership secondary to being to limited in location choices we want to go too. If I had to choose one over the other, I'd keep out two Marriott weeks.


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## dvc_john (May 25, 2012)

jdunn1 said:


> I think there is only a very limited window when non-W57 street owners can trade in.  Maybe it is something like 30 days before check-in?



It's 44 days.


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## rodbarc (May 25, 2012)

I'm not an HGVC owner, so please correct me if I'm wrong.
I've seen lots of posts where they say HGVC has fewer locations than Marriot (actually, HGVC being too concentrated in 3 areas mostly).
But HGVC owners can always use their points with HHonors to stay at Hilton hotels, right? And they have several locations in the world. Maybesome cat. 6 or 7 might be as good as the resorts.
Sure, the majority is not as "pampered" as the resorts, but one can rely on the hotels to try new / diversified places on vacation. Is this a fair statement?

Thanks,

Rod


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## channimal (May 25, 2012)

rodbarc said:


> I'm not an HGVC owner, so please correct me if I'm wrong.
> I've seen lots of posts where they say HGVC has fewer locations than Marriot (actually, HGVC being too concentrated in 3 areas mostly).
> But HGVC owners can always use their points with HHonors to stay at Hilton hotels, right? And they have several locations in the world. Maybesome cat. 6 or 7 might be as good as the resorts.
> Sure, the majority is not as "pampered" as the resorts, but one can rely on the hotels to try new / diversified places on vacation. Is this a fair statement?
> ...



very fair statement.  Wife and I are headed to the Waldorf Astoria Rome (Cavalieri) for a week in Oct by converting our Hilton to Honors pts.


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## slum808 (May 25, 2012)

While Hilton hotel stay on HH points does open up locations, they typicall won't be large rooms. If you're a couple that would be fine, but if you have a large family it can be difficult to fit into a hotel room. Marriott has a wide variety of locations with 2-bedrooms in most of them.


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## PigsDad (May 25, 2012)

Also, using your HGVC points is generally not a good value except for very expensive locations such as Europe, NYC, etc.  For the equivalent of a 2BR HGVC week in prime time, you would only get a hotel room for 3-5 nights.

Kurt


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## PigsDad (May 25, 2012)

rodbarc said:


> (actually, HGVC being too concentrated in 3 areas mostly)


While it is true that HGVC does have multiple locations in Orlando, Las Vegas and Hawaii, the full resort collection currently includes *55 locations*, and they are one of the few systems actively adding locations.  It is true that some of those locations have more limited availability, but so it goes with other systems as well.

The number one feature I like most about HGVC is its flexibility:  I can stay in any size unit, for any number of days (min 3, mostly).  So if just my wife and I want to go to somewhere for a 4-day weekend, I can just get a studio for those days.  If the whole family wants to go to South Beach for 5 days, I can get a 1 or 2BR.  And if I want to go to Hawaii for 11 days, I can do that as well.  I can adjust my start and end days to take advantage of lower airfare if I want.  The point is, I'm not stuck with just the 7-day standard vacation with limited checkin days.

I own a 3BR week, but manage to stretch that out to an average of 2.5 to 3 weeks of usage with these techniques.  When my family situation changes, I know I will always be able to use my HGVC points as I need and not be stuck with a certain sized unit.

Kurt


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## Talent312 (May 25, 2012)

PigsDad said:


> Also, using your HGVC points is generally not a good value except for very expensive locations such as Europe, NYC, etc.  For the equivalent of a 2BR HGVC week in prime time, you would only get a hotel room for 3-5 nights.



I think that it would be clearer to say: Using your HGVC points ___for HHonors' hotel bookings___ is generally not a good value except for very expensive locations...

However, HGVC membership comes with an upper-tier HH account, which when used with a HH-affininty credit card, greatly enhances one's balance and make HHonors a program which is worthy of participation in its own right.


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## toontoy (May 25, 2012)

The HHonors do come in handy, my wife and I recently visited Washington DC and stayed at the Capitol Hilton near all the sites and in December using them to stay at the Hilton property in south beach, (sadly the club property was booked over new years). All I have to say is that when used wisely they do add up and save some cash, our room for south beach was 999 per night and we booked 4 nights and 5 nights in DC and the rate was 399. 

I guess it depends, but we also use the Hilton Amex card and add points quickly with that and love the lower point redemption options for 4 nights or more. 

I would do some research as we don't really use our membership much at the resorts or within RCI; mainly within HHonors. For 2 its great, for more I would look at other options. For us we like to stay downtown in cities we visit and most timeshares are on the outskirts so to speak. 

We would have purchased Marriott but they wouldn't let me buy resale to use the Marriott reward points.


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## Smyrnian (May 25, 2012)

Thanks for all the helpful responses.

Recognizing the more limited number of resorts with Hilton (vs Marriott), would this be mitigated by ability to trade in RCI?

My greatest interest in vacation locations is: Orlando, Las Vegas, Hawaii. So my initial thinking has been on purchase of 2 bd, platinum week at a Hilton resort in one of these locations.

Would ownership of a Hilton timeshare like this be good for trading into a comparable property (2 bd, full kitchen, etc.) in most other locations? For example, noticing Hilton has no resort properties in the Caribbean, as owner of the type of Hilton timeshare described above, could I expect to easily trade into a comparable location somewhere in the Caribbean thru RCI?

And while I'm at it, I would also appreciate any input on how to make the choice between orlando, hawaii, las vegas as "home resort".

Thanks.


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## presley (May 25, 2012)

Smyrnian said:


> Would ownership of a Hilton timeshare like this be good for trading into a comparable property (2 bd, full kitchen, etc.) in most other locations? For example, noticing Hilton has no resort properties in the Caribbean, as owner of the type of Hilton timeshare described above, could I expect to easily trade into a comparable location somewhere in the Caribbean thru RCI?
> 
> And while I'm at it, I would also appreciate any input on how to make the choice between orlando, hawaii, las vegas as "home resort".
> 
> Thanks.



The Hiltons are high demand, high end TS.  They will have a very high trading power.  I can't imagine you not getting what you want in a trade.

Las Vegas has the lower annual dues.  If you want to book a particular resort in Hawaii or Orlando during a high demand time, you may want to buy there.


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## Asl18940 (May 25, 2012)

All three locations have good trading value.  Pick the one you think you'll actually go to the most as a practical matter.  But if you're looking to resell a week, then Hawaii gets the best prices.  Bear this in mind, you need more points for the Hawaii resort for a 2 bedroom than in Orlando.  That's mostly because the units in Hawaii are more tiered from standard to penthouse.


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## PigsDad (May 25, 2012)

Smyrnian said:


> Thanks for all the helpful responses.
> 
> Recognizing the more limited number of resorts with Hilton (vs Marriott), would this be mitigated by ability to trade in RCI?
> 
> ...


Hiltons are strong traders in RCI and can "pull" most any property available.  You generally need to plan further ahead for RCI trades, but it is easy to trade into some very nice places.

But here's the best part:  it costs less points to trade into an RCI week than it does for a Hilton week.  For example, if you own a 2BR Platinum season week, that will give you 7000 annual HGVC points.  But to trade into a 2BR RCI property during their highest-demand season ("red"), it will only cost you 4800 points.  So you will have 2200 points left over that you can roll into next year, use for a shorter vacation, etc.

Kurt


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## PigsDad (May 25, 2012)

Asl18940 said:


> Bear this in mind, *you need more points for the Hawaii resort for a 2 bedroom than in Orlando.*


Only for a couple of the newer Hawaii properties.  The other properties use the same point structure as the Orlando properties.

For full point information, you can look at the online member guide which lists every property and points needed.  90% of the properties use the "standard" point structure.

Kurt


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## jdunn1 (May 25, 2012)

I would immagine Hilton would trade great no matter where you want to go.  However, most of the good reosrts (i.e. the Marriotts) in the Caribbean are all in II.  Hilton does not trade in II.

Trading into the Hiltons is a pretty easy trade via RCI.  There is a 1 in 4 rule to rci exchangers, but with so many resorts to choose from in Orlando, Vegas and Hawaii, you can still visit these places every year or even more than once a year, you just have to stay at differert resorts.  If you want access to HGVC and Marriott but can only buy one timeshare, I really encourage you to check out WorldMark.  Nothing trades better in RCI than WorldMark and it trades very well in Interval.  WorldMark points are much cheaper to buy and to own than either Hilton or Marriott, too.


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## jin (May 25, 2012)

jdunn1 said:


> I would immagine Hilton would trade great no matter where you want to go.  However, most of the good reosrts (i.e. the Marriotts) in the Caribbean are all in II.  Hilton does not trade in II.
> 
> Trading into the Hiltons is a pretty easy trade via RCI.  There is a 1 in 4 rule to rci exchangers, but with so many resorts to choose from in Orlando, Vegas and Hawaii, you can still visit these places every year or even more than once a year, you just have to stay at differert resorts.  If you want access to HGVC and Marriott but can only buy one timeshare, I really encourage you to check out WorldMark.  Nothing trades better in RCI than WorldMark and it trades very well in Interval.  WorldMark points are much cheaper to buy and to own than either Hilton or Marriott, too.



Any thought why worldmark trades better than Hilton or Marriott when they are not quite as nice as either brand and MF's and cost to buy are cheaper??


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## jdunn1 (May 25, 2012)

I don't think there is any proof other than comments made by RCI reps and WM owners.  I've called to make an ongoing request in RCI with my WM points for difficult trades like 3 bedroom DVC units and summer Myrtle Beach weeks and have been told by a couple RCI reps that those are difficult trades but you have WM points and in RCI all good things happen for WM owners.  I didn't believe it myself until I got some difficult trades like a 3 bedroom OKW for Labor Day and a 2 bedroom July Grand Californian week and lots of holiday DVC orlando weeks.  I also did really well last summer getting into Wyndham Ocean Boulevard in July.

I also know of  WM owner who got into the Contempoary resort a full year before anyone else reported getting in on TUG.  I have a gut feeling it will be a WM owner (and not me) who gets into the new Disney in Hawaii, first.  I only think this because of how a WM owner got into the Contempoary so much earlier than anyone else.

The other reason I was given by WM owners is that only 2 or 3 percent of WM owners ever trade out of WM so WM deposits into RCI are not as plentiful as other resort brands.  Also, RCI is owned by Wyndham and Wyndham owns WorldMark so I guess (again no proof, just hearsay) WM gets some kind of preference in RCI.

With all this said, I had much better luck in RCI last year than this year.  For some reason, I haven't received many matches in the last few months.

Definatley, I would pick a Hilton Resort over a WM resort (with the possible exception of the WM reosorts along the Oregon Coast, which are pretty nice), but almost all of the WM resorts are very popular.  They are just all on the West Coast and I am an East Coast vacationer.



jin said:


> Any thought why worldmark trades better than Hilton or Marriott when they are not quite as nice as either brand and MF's and cost to buy are cheaper??


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## dougp26364 (May 26, 2012)

rodbarc said:


> I'm not an HGVC owner, so please correct me if I'm wrong.
> I've seen lots of posts where they say HGVC has fewer locations than Marriot (actually, HGVC being too concentrated in 3 areas mostly).
> But HGVC owners can always use their points with HHonors to stay at Hilton hotels, right? And they have several locations in the world. Maybesome cat. 6 or 7 might be as good as the resorts.
> Sure, the majority is not as "pampered" as the resorts, but one can rely on the hotels to try new / diversified places on vacation. Is this a fair statement?
> ...



And Marriott owners can use Marriott Rewards points for hotel stays but, I did not buy timeshares to spend nights in hotel rooms.


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## pianodinosaur (May 26, 2012)

We accumulate HHonors points and Marriott Rewards points mostly from credit card use.  The points accumulate rapidly.  We have not had any need to convert HGVC points to HHonors points.  Marriott will not allow the resale owner to convert their week into Marriott rewards points.  We have not had any desire for such a conversion.


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## Remy (May 27, 2012)

jdunn1 said:


> The cost for both the timeshares you quoted above is high. That Hilton week should be under 10k and that Marriott week should be closer to 1k. A big difference, I know.



Under $10k would be sweet and I'm sure they sell for that occasionally, but the buyer wouldn't be the one ending up with the timeshare. Hilton would exercise ROFR around $11k or so. That's where the price differential comes from. Hilton buys them back and resells them at full freight. It's less expensive/risky than building out a new property.

It is telling that in resale the systems with properties _actually selling_ for 5 figures consistently are Hilton and Hyatt with point systems that are useable by retail and resale buyers alike.


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## GregT (May 27, 2012)

Remy said:


> It is telling that in resale the systems with properties _actually selling_ for 5 figures consistently are Hilton and Hyatt with point systems that are useable by retail and resale buyers alike.



Agreed -- and it is the same with Starwood -- a Platinum Westin Kierland Villas 2BR that has access to the internal system (StarOptions) will sell for $13K - $15K.   

A Platinum Sheraton Desert Oasis 2BR that does not have access to the internal system will sell for $2K - $4K.

Now that Marriott has closed access to its internal system for resale buyers (and isn't ROFRing much of anything), and changed the reliability of Interval International exchanges, the values of the Marriott weeks are just plummeting.  

There clearly is a premium value on being able to access the internal system, otherwise the price sinks to whatever the actual value of that specific week/view is.

Best,

Greg


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## GregT (May 27, 2012)

Smyrnian said:


> Thanks for all the helpful responses.
> 
> Recognizing the more limited number of resorts with Hilton (vs Marriott), would this be mitigated by ability to trade in RCI?
> 
> ...



With respect to home resort, we selected Orlando for our home resort, but we were simply looking for any Las Vegas or Orlando properties that had the annual MFs that we wanted to pay (approx $700 for each of our two 1BRs).

It is odd because we purchased specifically to go to Hawaii and we are counting on the continuing access through their system (which I believe will not undergo many changes).   We didn't buy Hawaii because the home resort week must be booked Sat-Sat, and we often like to travel Fri-Fri.  If that was an option, we would buy at HHV-Lagoon.

The other issue with home resort is you must book exactly what you own.  If you have a 2BR, you can't book just the 1BR side at 12 months out, so you must be highly confident that you are buying exactly what you need the home resort advantage for.

HGVC is a great system -- truly, a remarkable system that is very owner-friendly.   I'm glad you found us here!

Best,

Greg


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