# Just Purchased in Lakeshore Reserve - Mistake?



## kenny1975 (Apr 20, 2009)

My wife and I (and our two kids - ages 6 & 3) were vactioning in Marco Island and toured the new Crystal Shores facility. We almost bought into the silver season there (only time period we could afford) when our saleswoman talked to us about the new Orlando resort - Lakeshore Reserve.

Here's what we bought:
Platinum week, lock off unit, 2 bed / 2 bath with a free weeks vacation through II for $24,600. I've spent the better part of my day researching this website and numerous forums and I'm trying to figure out if this was a mistake or not - It's important to note that we are still within the 10 day recission period.

We decided on the Orlando resort instead of Marco Island due to the fact that we were buying into a Platinum season versus Silver AND due to the fact that we were buying a lock off unit which supposedly gets us another weeks vacation if we so choose...by closing off part of the unit...etc. We were also told that we could roll one week into the Marriott Rewards program - get 100K points and within 2 years get a trip anywhere in the world for two with airfare. Sounded like this was all too good to be true. We liked the idea of using one week and rolling the other week into MRP and start accumulating points towards free hotel stays, airline tickets, etc.

I'm not shocked by the amount of our investment, we can certainly afford it but I don't want to get taken advantage of either. Did we do the right thing?

Are we better off buying through the resale market?

Was it a mistake to buy into Orlando versus a more "desireable" location? We thought it was great to buy into a Platinum time but do we have less "buying power or trade power" since we bought into Orlando? I think it's important to note that we do not intend to actually stay in Orlando...ever We already take the kids to Disney every other year and so I don't ever see us actually using the Lakeshore Reserve resort.

Our intention was to use our ownership interest to trade into other Marriott resorts (during the summertime when our kids aren't in school) and be able to see different parts of the country and world for that matter.

Your help is GREATLY appreciated...if only I found this site before we signed the paperwork!

Thanks!!


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## FlyerBobcat (Apr 20, 2009)

I'll start off....  but first,   Welcome to TUG   



kenny1975 said:


> I'm not shocked by the amount of our investment, we can certainly afford it but I don't want to get taken advantage of either. Did we do the right thing?



Please drop the word "investment".  Treating it as a true investment will likely result in MAJOR disappointment.



> Was it a mistake to buy into Orlando versus a more "desireable" location? We thought it was great to buy into a Platinum time but do we have less "buying power or trade power" since we bought into Orlando? I think it's important to note that we do not intend to actually stay in Orlando...ever We already take the kids to Disney every other year and so I don't ever see us actually using the Lakeshore Reserve resort.
> 
> Our intention was to use our ownership interest to trade into other Marriott resorts (during the summertime when our kids aren't in school) and be able to see different parts of the country and world for that matter.



I think it is a mistake to buy at a place at developer prices when:  *I don't ever see us actually using the Lakeshore Reserve resort.*

Since you are uncertain at this point if you made a good decision -- and you have time to rescind -- you should look very hard at that option.  You can always buy at a later time -- but to sell what you just bought is going to cost you BIG BUCKS.


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## beanie (Apr 20, 2009)

you are better off buying resale . we bought our first 2 timeshares thru marriott . the first one was cypress harbour in orlando . a great resort but so easy to get into we decided we didn't need to own there . we are going there in 2 weeks on a bonus week we earned from an aruba resort that cost us $700 on e-bay an eoy week 52 . so for a little over $300 dollars we grabbed a week that our MF were almost $900 on . we sold that week back thru marriott after 7 yrs with a $2500 loss , but throw in the free trip to hawaii and 7 yrs use and I was happy with that . our other purchase from marriott was a pre-construction at aruba surf club we purchased for $13,900  I believe in 2004 which we just sold for 15k so we were happy with that transaction. I feel that some cheaper 5 star lock-outs fit our needs better as we tend to travel off season and can use flex change thru interval . I say if you can to back out now do more research and that deal will still be there .

also read this thread on the same property

http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=95551


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## kenny1975 (Apr 20, 2009)

Hi Tom - thanks for the reply - I've read many of your past posts and was happy to see your quick response.  I should clarify that by "investment" in meant into my families vacationing future.  We own beachfront property in Marco Island so by no means am I looking at our purchase as a financial investment...my wife and I were happy at the prospect of taking our kids to a different destination each year...

...but after researching this website for quite some time today...I'm not sure I made the right decision by purchasing from the developer, in Orlando, etc...


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## FlyerBobcat (Apr 20, 2009)

Kenny....  I was hoping you were going to mention "families vacationing future" along with the "investment" word.  So you certainly are on the right track.

I'm pretty sure you will have plenty of responses and advice.  Since you  still have time to rescind, you really haven't made "the right/wrong descision" yet.

But if you decide to rescind, follow the details of the procedures exactly, and maybe even cover yourself by doing it more than that one way.

Good luck!




kenny1975 said:


> Hi Tom - thanks for the reply - I've read many of your past posts and was happy to see your quick response.  I should clarify that by "investment" in meant into my families vacationing future.  We own beachfront property in Marco Island so by no means am I looking at our purchase as a financial investment...my wife and I were happy at the prospect of taking our kids to a different destination each year...
> 
> ...but after researching this website for quite some time today...I'm not sure I made the right decision by purchasing from the developer, in Orlando, etc...


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## saturn28 (Apr 20, 2009)

You better talk to your salesperson because they have the Platinum weeks on sale right now through April 22nd at the Lakeshore Reserve for $20,000


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## Karen G (Apr 20, 2009)

Rescind while you still have the chance. Follow the instructions exactly as given in your contract.  It's great that you found TUG in time.  Now do some more research, check out the resale market, and take your time.

It's a buyers' market for resale timeshares.  Educate yourself.  That deal with the developer will always be there.  If, after you've studied the situation more, you decide it is the best deal for you and your family, then make a purchase as an informed consumer.

But, I think you'll see the value of resale the more look into it, especially since you stated that you'd likely not use the property you bought but would trade it.  There are many, many good traders available at bargain prices all over the place.

Welcome to TUG.  You may notice that I deleted your duplicate post on this topic in the Buy, Sell, Rent forum.  TUG posting rules do not allow for duplicate posts in more than one forum.


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## kenny1975 (Apr 20, 2009)

Thank you Karen (and other TUG members) - I will look at the procedures to rescind when I get home from work tonight.  Assuming that I go that route - I believe I'd like to stay within the Marriott family - so does anyone have a recommendation on a resort that I can purchase into via the resale market that will afford my family the best option of transfering around within the Marriott resorts during peak summer months - since we have kids that will be in school...and a school teacher wife who frowns upon taking them out of school for vacations...


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## littlestar (Apr 20, 2009)

I tend to like a lock-off because you can essentially get another vacation out of  it. When I first started my search for a Marriott Vacation Club resort, I checked the Marriott sticky on this board to help me get started on my research. Here's a link for you:

http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=391

Definitely rescind - you can always buy from Marriott direct later if you decide that's what you want to do after you do your homework. 

Good luck.


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## TheTimeTraveler (Apr 20, 2009)

Right now, for about $6K on the resale market you can buy a GOLD two bedroom lockoff unit at Marriott's Summit Watch at Park City, Utah.

If you lock off, then you will be able to obtain two trades every year.

Trading into the Orlando area is relatively easy due to excessive overbuilding of Timeshare resorts.

Best of luck with your search.


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## ldanna (Apr 20, 2009)

TheTimeTraveler said:


> Right now, for about $6K on the resale market you can buy a GOLD two bedroom lockoff unit at Marriott's Summit Watch at Park City, Utah.
> 
> If you lock off, then you will be able to obtain two trades every year.
> 
> Trading into the Orlando area is relatively easy due to excessive overbuilding of Timeshare resorts.



This is a good point. For $6K you might even be able to buy a platinum lockoff at Habour Lake (former Horizons). BUT, if you buy resale on Grande Vista, you might probably pay half what he paid buying direct from Marriott on a brand new resort (Grande Vista is currently the newest and most sofisticated Marriott in Orlando). Although is a lot of money for todays market, it is not a great difference at all (resale x developer).


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## kenny1975 (Apr 20, 2009)

...and does anyone have a strong opinion about the ability to get points into the Marriott Rewards program when you aren't able to use your vacation time share for reason or another?  If I buy resale...what happens if I can't go on a vacation for a year or two?  Assuming that the unit can't be rented...isn't one of the major benefits of buying via the developer is the ability to roll your week into the rewards program and reep the benefits at some point down the road?  That seemed like a benefit to me and my wife....


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## gmarine (Apr 20, 2009)

kenny1975 said:


> ...and does anyone have a strong opinion about the ability to get points into the Marriott Rewards program when you aren't able to use your vacation time share for reason or another?  If I buy resale...what happens if I can't go on a vacation for a year or two?  Assuming that the unit can't be rented...isn't one of the major benefits of buying via the developer is the ability to roll your week into the rewards program and reep the benefits at some point down the road?  That seemed like a benefit to me and my wife....




That is a benefit. But is it worth 20K. No way. IMO, rescind, then take your time to decide what and if you want to buy a timeshare. Then if you still feel you want to buy from Marriott for the ability to trade for points you will be able to make a better informed decision.


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## pwrshift (Apr 20, 2009)

I'm a big supporter of buying direct to enjoy the benefits of the Marriott Rewards program, and my family has had some wonderful trips all over the world in the many years we've been part of the Marriott family.

However, I never bought a timeshare I didn't want to use at least 3 out of 4 years.  I also believe in lockoff suites as in several years, you'll find once the kids have left the nest it's nice to split your unit into two parts and stay 2 weeks for another $75.  The Lakeshore Reserve lockoff (if you bought the right one) has two parts with full kitchens not just a kitchenette in one part...and I also think that is the most unique offering from Marriott with townhomes, etc. and sharing the land with a Ritz Carlton and JW - nice!  However -- do you really really want to always vactation in Orlando -- especially after the kids have grown?

However - why buy it if you have little interest in using it.  In fact, why buy any timeshare is you don't want to use it?

I think you have to rescind and take time to really look at your vacation needs for the near and long term -- and what you would be happy owning and using in 20 years.  Once you know this the decision becomes a little easier.  Remember that flying a whole family every year to your TS and renting a car can get expensive -- so maybe buy a place you can drive to.  

If trading is your interest buy the cheapest platinum you can find resale that has the lowest maint/taxes and that will trade well -- such as Manor Club for $8000 and MF of $850.  You could even drive there from Chicago...and if you play golf, you get 6 rounds of golf per week.

There are a lot of supporters of the MR program and buying direct here on Tug, but not as many as support resale -- so discussions on this subject is probably the number one topic on this board.  Search and read them so you can decide what's best for your need.

Have fun.

Brian


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## m61376 (Apr 20, 2009)

I am going to add to the "rescind now" camp- and not to tell you to buy resale, but because you seem uncertain about the relative benefits of resale versus direct and, more importantly, you are looking to buy at a place you never want to use. I really think you should take the time to think about where you'd like to go, at least some years. 

In general, people advise to rescind, research and then decide, because the same deal will be there next week or next month. Because of their current special sale pricing, next week the price will increase. However, I don't think you know enough to buy right now.

If being able to trade for points is really important to you, then buy direct, but look into buying somewhere you'll use. Make sure you understand that the points really aren't free, and what the real cost is before you sign on the dotted line. It does give you options when you don't want to use the timeshare for a year (other than renting or depositing it for a future trade) and the trips the points can "pay" for can be wonderful, but contrary to the rosy picture painted by the salesperson, they are not really free. As Brian suggested, just search this forum and read through one of the debates as to the merits of direct versus resale purchases so you can decide for yourself if buying direct is worth the added cost for you and your family's needs.

At the very least, if you are still on the fence about rescinding, try to read as much on this Board as you can over the next few days. I think the more you read the more confused you will likely get; if so, and you can't proceed with confidence, then step back and take the time. As others have mentioned, timeshares are easy to buy, can be a wonderful purchase, but are an albatross if you made a mistake and want to sell.

Welcome to Tug and feel free to ask questions


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## Karen G (Apr 20, 2009)

m61376 said:


> At the very least, if you are still on the fence about rescinding, try to read as much on this Board as you can over the next few days.


I can't urge you enough to RESCIND while you are still within the rescission period.  You will have this opportunity to rescind only this one time and if you let it pass you by, you won't be able to rescind later.  The deal you got will still be there & probably even a better one will be available later!

If you have any questions whatsoever about how the program you bought works or how timeshare works in general, rescind.  You don't have enough information to be an informed buyer.  On any other purchase for the amount of money you paid, I imagine you would have taken your time and done a little more research before signing the papers.  If you rescind you can take the time to educate yourself.  But, if you let the rescission period pass, you are stuck.


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## mamadot (Apr 20, 2009)

Which Marriott properties do you want to trade into in the summer?
Beach properties will be a hard trade with Park City gold. Newport Coast is only 2 bedrooms so you would have to use your entire 2/2 at Park City to trade into it unless during flex time. (less than 59 days from ck in date)  

I recommend buying where you actually want to vacation then if you can not trade into what you want you can still enjoy a wonderful vacation at a place you enjoy going.


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## applegirl (Apr 20, 2009)

Hi Kenny and welcome to TUG! 

We have children ages 6 and 3 also.   They have been vacationing in roomy Marriott t/s properties since they were born.  Our oldest had the lock-off room to himself when he was 2 and 1/2 months old.  When I was young we certainly didn't have vacations like our kids have already had, but we feel very fortunate to be able to provide nice vacations and memories.  We are so glad we found timesharing when we were just starting our family.

We did buy our Marriott t/s from Marrriott, but that was before we discovered TUG.  I'm so glad you found us now, while you still have time to rescind.  Marriott Lakeshore Reserve is going to be a gorgeous property when it grows up, I have no doubt.  But you would be wise to rescind now, do your due diligence here on TUG to figure out exactly what is best for your family and then proceed.  Right now is a buyers market for t/s resales.  You will get such a great deal if you wait and buy resale somewhere that really fits your needs and intentions.  If you are set on Lakeshore Reserve, you will be able to buy it resale within the coming years.  You could always rent a few times until then.

Now, as for exchanging your week for MRP's.  Personally, I don't think it's a good deal at all.  Especially since they just devalued their points program this past January.  Now you get less for your points but they don't increase the points owners can get for exchanging in their weeks!  If you consider how much your MF's are a year (ours are close to $900 at Shadow Ridge), plus how many nights you actually get for your 100K points (it won't be a week!), then it just isn't a good deal at all.  It's a HUGE advantage for Marriott, IMO.  If you go to Marriott website, you can see how much they rent out the units for on a nightly basis to Joe Blow off the street.  It's a lot of money!

Since your family will be very tied to the school calendar, at least for years to come, you will want a strong trader.  For less money than you were willing to spend on Lakeshore Reserve, you will be able to buy a tiger trader on the resale market.  Then, once you learn all the tricks of reserving your week and trading, you will most likely be a very happy Marriott owner.

If you can't use your week one year, you can deposit into Interval International and have up to 2 years to use it.  I seriously doubt you would ever have a year where you just flat out couldn't use it or rent it and had to flush your $$$ down the toilet.  TUGgers don't let that happen!  No worries!

Cheers and I'm glad we are here to help you!

Janna


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## Latravel (Apr 21, 2009)

You have expressed an interest in the Marriott Rewards program so I think buying direct is a good fit but, you don't seem to have made a decision on which location to buy.

We also have young kids and we wanted a timeshare that is a good trader, that is affordable, one that can be locked off, and one that trades for max points.  We picked Shadow Ridge.  I am surprised by how well it trades and we have never stayed there.  

This year we traded one unit for points and one unit I deposited in II.  We now have too many weeks in our bank but it's a nice problem to have.  I like having the option to trade for points because sometimes we just have too many weeks banked and we can get points towards vacations instead of having to pay extra for the points, on top of our maintenance fees, which is what you would have to do if you bought resale.

I think you may need to take your time to figure out which location is best for your family.  It seems like you can afford to purchase direct so the $10K price difference may not be a big deal as long as they give you at least 250,000 incentive points, which will give you a nice vacation.


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## FlyerBobcat (Apr 21, 2009)

There are plenty of threads and posting debating resale vs. developer purchase, so I don't want to go there again.  But I think a couple of points need to be made based on a previous post.



> You have expressed an interest in the Marriott Rewards program so I think buying direct is a good fit but......



Having an interest in the Rewards program certainly is not enough reason to buy direct --- in most cases.



> It seems like you can afford to purchase direct so the $10K price difference may not be a big deal as long as they give you at least 250,000 incentive points, which will give you a nice vacation.



With point purchases from Marriott at $1250 for 100,000 points (per year, per couple), I'm not sure I can consider this solid advice.

Yes there are a lot of factors to consider -- and I'm not one that says NEVER to a developer purchase to a potential buyer here on TUG --- but just wanted to get a few extra points out on this thread.

Since the OP stated a reason for interest in the Rewards Program is based on:


> ...when you aren't able to use your vacation time share for reason or another? If I buy resale...what happens if I can't go on a vacation for a year or two?


Does it follow that the better solution is buying hundreds of thousands of points at an inflated price?   I do see the advantage of flexibility here in a developer purchase.  But if the OP is really worried about not being able to use a single week of vacation a year, maybe Timesharing isn't the route to go.

Just a few additional thoughts.....


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## elaine (Apr 21, 2009)

*I would also cancel--have you considered summer beach*

I would recommend the Marriott system, esp. for a 1st timseshare, simply to get the preference of trading into other Marriotts over others in II.  However, I would advise you to think carefully about Orlando--you indicated you only want to go every other year. Orlando is a VERY easy trade--so really think about where else you might want to go instead.  

You might consider a Hilton Head beach week (make sure you buy a season that fits your district's school schedule).  Another great resort for kids (and adults) is Ocean Watch at Myrtle Beach.  This will be more $$ than Hilton HEAd (even resale), but is very popular.  If you can go early June or end of Aug, Gold might work well for you and be much less $$ for either HHI or MB otherwise buy platinum---you can get them resale for certainly under $20K.  I believe MB does not have lock offs, so if that is important, consider one at HHI---however, do your research and buy a HHI Marriott that is likely to stay a "Marriott"  (Surf, Barony, Grande Ocean). With all of these properties, you can easily trade into Orlando, as well as most other Marriotts. Elaine


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## ldanna (Apr 21, 2009)

kenny1975 said:


> Was it a mistake to buy into Orlando versus a more "desireable" location? We thought it was great to buy into a Platinum time but do we have less "buying power or trade power" since we bought into Orlando? I think it's important to note that we do not intend to actually stay in Orlando...ever We already take the kids to Disney every other year and so I don't ever see us actually using the Lakeshore Reserve resort.
> 
> Our intention was to use our ownership interest to trade into other Marriott resorts (during the summertime when our kids aren't in school) and be able to see different parts of the country and world for that matter.



I am a newbie here but reading posts here for a while I may have some advise to you:
-if Orlando isn't you primary destination every year (or 3 out of 4 as said here), you should not buy there.
-nowadays, it is cheaper pay a hotel instead of convert your week into points. If you already have this option, it's great, but not a feature you should add to your week (today, but a year from now who knows?)
-if you’re planning to be on different places every year you need a good trader. What is that? A week you can trade to a location you want to go easily. Nobody knows what Interval uses to choose one week instead of another, but based on Tugers experiences, they have an idea.
-what should your week have?
  *good season: platinum are always good, gold sometimes, silver and bronze will be good only during Flexchange period (you will have to be able to plan your vacation only with 2 months tops, not recommended if you have kids).
  *good week during a good season: you have to have a good week reserved during a good season. If you go to Interval and find your resort there, you will find a Travel Demand Index that could guide you to choose the best week to trade. If you have 2 weeks, you will be able to reserve your week in advance (13 months instead of general 12 months)improving your chances to reserve a good week.
  *something curious: Lakeshore Reserve is Platinum season all year long, except during weeks 6-17 when it is Premier Platinum. Marriott transformed most gold weeks into platinum but Travel Demand Index is the same for an area full of t/s. If you go to the Royal Palms Calendar, you will see that weeks 36-39 is considered Blue (or Silver) season with low demand on Interval index.
  *lockoff feature: you have 2 bedrooms, you split them into a studio and 1 bedroom, and might end up with 2 weeks with 2 bedrooms each (if you have a good trader)
-what resort? Reading here you will see that some resorts are good traders, I will list some of them with lockoff features:
  *Hawaiian resort, where Ko Olina is the best, but they are expensive and maintenance fees are almost twice the others.
  *Grand Chateaux in Vegas
  *Manor Club in Williamsburg
  *Desert Springs and Shadow Ridge
  *Ocean Point, but owners there usually use their week instead of trade them.
  *Ski season at Park City (Summit Watch or Mountain Side), but prices are really high for those seasons.
  *Canyon Villas
  *Even Grande Vista in Orlando (for the price of one week in Lakeshore you might end up buying 3 Platinum weeks in Grande Vista if you look in the right places).
-last thing to consider, if you buy a Florida Club resort (Grande Vista, Ocean Point, Beach Place, Legends Edge and Villas at Doral, the last 2 with no lockoff feature), you will be able to reserve on those resorts as if you're reserving in your home resort, except you can do this with only 6 month in advance.


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## luv2vacation (Apr 21, 2009)

elaine said:


> You might consider a Hilton Head beach week (make sure you buy a season that fits your district's school schedule).  Another great resort for kids (and adults) is Ocean Watch at Myrtle Beach.



I agree that these are both great places to vacation with kids in the summer and are also great traders.  I think that the MB property is an even better trader because it is the *only* Marriott property in MB and one of very few 5-star resorts actually on the beach there.




elaine said:


> I believe MB does not have lock offs, so if that is important, consider one at HHI


*
NONE* of the SOUTH CAROLINA Marriott TS's have lock-offs, neither in HH or MB.


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## FlyerBobcat (Apr 21, 2009)

elaine said:


> You might consider a Hilton Head beach week (make sure you buy a season that fits your district's school schedule).  Another great resort for kids (and adults) is Ocean Watch at Myrtle Beach.  This will be more $$ than Hilton HEAd (even resale), but is very popular.  If you can go early June or end of Aug, Gold might work well for you and be much less $$ for either HHI or MB otherwise buy platinum---you can get them resale for certainly under $20K.  *I believe MB does not have lock offs, so if that is important, consider one at HHI---however, do your research and buy a HHI Marriott that is likely to stay a "Marriott"  (Surf, Barony, Grande Ocean). *With all of these properties, you can easily trade into Orlando, as well as most other Marriotts. Elaine



Just a quick note....  Marriott resorts on HHI do not have lock offs, even though I like the HHI recommendation.


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## cp73 (Apr 21, 2009)

Kenny

Your head is probably spinning now. There are lots and lots of threads on this subject as to what is the best way to go. Keep in mind that most the people on this board love their Marriott timeshare so regardless of what they say. I know I love mine. Most will tell you to buy where you want to go most frequently and buy if possible close to home. This is because trading and exchanging can take some work which some people dont have patients for. It may require you to wait for trades, and some you may not get for various factors. 

Its really in your best interest to rescind and take six months reading and asking questions on this board. Today is definately a buyers market on the resale. Prices are way down and will probably be there for some time.


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## vacationlover2 (Apr 21, 2009)

Kenny,

I would recommend buying a gold or platinum 2BR Marriott Aruba surf club lockoff unit.  I bought one 2 years ago and can trade into almost ANYTHING.


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## luv2vacation (Apr 21, 2009)

FlyerBobcat said:


> Just a quick note....  Marriott resorts on HHI do not have lock offs, even though I like the HHI recommendation.



Tom - you and I must have been typing at virtually the same time!


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## FlyerBobcat (Apr 21, 2009)

luv2vacation said:


> Tom - you and I must have been typing at virtually the same time!


yea.... but you beat me to the "submit" button by a little bit....


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## Latravel (Apr 21, 2009)

_"Having an interest in the Rewards program certainly is not enough reason to buy direct --- in most cases."_

What?  It's one of the most important reasons to buy direct.  There are many other factors such as peace of mind, insurance against future changes, ease of transaction.

_"With point purchases from Marriott at $1250 for 100,000 points (per year, per couple), I'm not sure I can consider this solid advice."_

Using this logic, it will take a family at lease 3 years and $3750 to get enough points for a vacation.  At that point, it would be cheaper to just plan your own non-point vacation.  Purchasing a substantial amount of points from Marriott is just not practical or cost effective.  It was never meant to be used in this manner.  It's surprising people recommend this option, but it's just another method resale purchasers use to minimize the desirability/necessity of the Marriott program.

People who purchase from marriott can exchange their unit for points just for an extra $104.  It's a nice option to have when you can't use up all of your weeks.  This is not a small benefit.


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## FlyerBobcat (Apr 21, 2009)

My point was *just *"having an interest" is not enough reason....

I certainly have a big interest in earning MRPs whenever I can,  I just couldn't justify the extra cost.

That's all....


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## ondeadlin (Apr 21, 2009)

Latravel said:


> _"With point purchases from Marriott at $1250 for 100,000 points (per year, per couple), I'm not sure I can consider this solid advice."_
> 
> Using this logic, it will take a family at lease 3 years and $3750 to get enough points for a vacation.  At that point, it would be cheaper to just plan your own non-point vacation.



It's hysterical that you're making this argument given that most weeks - when traded for points - give you 110,000 points or fewer. So even after paying tens of thousands of dollars more for your developer timeshare, once your bonus points are gone, you too will have to wait three or more years for your vacation package.

In fact, you might have to wait longer, since many weeks _can only be traded every other year _for points.

And what will trading your timeshare week for points for three straight years cost you? Well, given the average Marriott MF is around $850 these days, and you have to _pay_ to exchange your week for points, it will cost you around $3,000 for your vacation.

So pretty much the exact same argument you just made against buying points can be made against buying a developer timeshare to trade for points.

The big difference being, of course, that if you're just buying the points, you're not out the $25,000 or more that a developer timeshare costs you.


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## gmarine (Apr 21, 2009)

ondeadlin said:


> It's hysterical that you're making this argument given that most weeks - when traded for points - give you 110,000 points or fewer. So even after paying tens of thousands of dollars more for your developer timeshare, once your bonus points are gone, you too will have to wait three or more years for your vacation package.
> 
> In fact, you might have to wait longer, since many weeks _can only be traded every other year _for points.
> 
> ...



You beat me to it. I was going to basically say the same thing. The only thing I would add is that I think the cost is a good bit higher than $3000. I think your average of $850 for Marriott maitenance fees is at least $100-$150too low. Manor Club fees are $850 which is the lowest I recall though I think Horizons Branson is a bit lower but most are higher, especially the Aruba and Hawaii properties.  Other than that you make a great point.


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## Latravel (Apr 21, 2009)

I find it hysterical that you are leaving out a big portion of the equation.

We all pay maintenance fees.  That is a constant cost, therefore, don't consider it.  The only extra cost for direct purchasers is $104.  If you can pay developer prices, this cost is minimal and worth the benefit of getting rid of an unused week.

If you buy resale, you have to pay the maintenance fees PLUS the cost of buying the points ($3750).  At this point, you'd never do it because it's obviously very expensive.  You'll just go to your one timeshare, or trade to others, year after year.

Most importantly, how could it make sense that direct purchasers would have to wait longer to accumulate enough points to purchase a vacation package?  Remember, I could trade my unit AND buy points so logically, if I wanted (remember flexibility), I could accumulate points _twice as fast_.

FYI, all my units trade every year for 110K points.

Lastly, i'm not out $25,000, I only paid $12,000 more and my trip to Italy coming up more than covers my cost difference.   The best part, i'll have the flexibility to take similar trips probably every other year as well, if I wanted.


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## applegirl (Apr 21, 2009)

I think an earlier post, which said that if Kenny is really worried about not being able to take this one week of vacation a year, then maybe t/s is not for them.  I think that's a good point.   Although, like I said in my earlier post, once Kenny learns all the tricks of the trade from TUG, he will have no problem using that one wonderful week a year.  If he buys a strong trader and someplace they like, I don't forsee any problems.

Janna


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## gmarine (Apr 21, 2009)

Latravel said:


> I find it hysterical that you are leaving out a big portion of the equation.
> 
> We all pay maintenance fees.  That is a constant cost, therefore, don't consider it.  The only extra cost for direct purchasers is $104.  If you can pay developer prices, this cost is minimal and worth the benefit of getting rid of an unused week.
> 
> ...



Forget maintenance fees? The points have a cost either way. If your maintenance fees are $1000 and you trade your unit for points then you paid $1104 for 110K points. And add to that the huge premium you paid versus resale.

Anyone can buy 100K points for $1300. Without the huge cost of a developer purchase. 

Your math about the cost of your Italy trip leaves out the fact that you didnt get the points for free. You paid for them by trading your unit for points.

The only way a developer purchase ever comes close to making sense from a financial standpoint is if you get a huge amount of incentive points. Yes, it gives flexibility if you dont use your unit but why not rent the unit instead? Doing that makes much better sense financially than spending an extra $15K plus on a developer purchase.


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## Latravel (Apr 21, 2009)

When I said don't consider the maintenance fees, I was speaking mathematically.  If you have a number on both sides of an equation, you can ignore it.  It's simple algebra. For example:

For developer purchases, the cost of 110,000 points is: $1000 mf + $104 fee.

The cost for resale purchasers is: $1000 mf + $1250 fee (for slightly less points).

Since $1000 mf was in both equations, you can ignore it, it's constant.  Now the cost difference is $104 for direct purchasers and $1250 for resale purchasers.  For 300,000 points (the cost of an average travel package), the cost difference is greater: $312 for direct vs $3750 for resale.

FYI, the cost of my Italy trip was paid solely by the incentive points I received from my purchase of Shadow Ridge.  I did not trade in my unit.  The incentive points made up for the cost difference, no matter how you guys want to define the value of my Italy trip.

Despite all of this, (I know I sound crazy) the circumstances in place when I purchased my timeshares are not the same as now.  The price difference between resale and direct is more than $12,000 now and Marriott is not offering the same amount of incentive points as they used to.  You have to see what Marriott offers you and do some cost benefit analysis, like i've done above to see if it's worth it.

If I were Kenny, I would rescind and purchase in a different location.  I would buy from Marriott because he mentioned he is interested in points.  I would take advantage of the sale going on and negotiate more incentive points otherwise you won't buy.

Good luck in your decision!


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## FlyerBobcat (Apr 21, 2009)

Latravel said:


> When I said don't consider the maintenance fees, I was speaking mathematically.  If you have a number on both sides of an equation, you can ignore it.  It's simple algebra. For example:
> 
> For developer purchases, the cost of 110,000 points is: $1000 mf + $104 fee.
> 
> ...



Hmmmmm.... . I'm confused...  Is the math really correct here?  For the developer purchase, didn't one have to give up the use of three weeks --- possibly valued at $3000 - $5000 (I'm guessing at rental rates, depending on season/location) ????


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## ondeadlin (Apr 21, 2009)

The math is completely and totally wrong.

It's wrong because it assumes one has to buy a timeshare. Here's the real math: 

Buyer A doesn't buy a timeshare, instead he just buys Marriott points with his wife. He pays $1250 a year for 100,000 points, and at the end of three years he has 300,000 points. He can now go to Europe on a travel package. Whoopie!

Buyer K buys a timeshare from Marriott for $25,000. She trades her timeshare in for points for three straight years, spending $1104 per year, and comes away with 330,000. She can now also go to Europe on a travel package, and has a few more points left over.

But Buyer K paid $25,000 more for the right to trade for those points. What other great bonus did she get? Well, a big bunch of Marriott incentive points, but even if it was 500k - and nobody gets 500k these days without punching up the numbers by including points they got for trading weeks - I doubt it justifies the fact _you can get the exact same thing without ever spending this money on a developer timeshare_.

If you really think Marriott points are all that great don't buy a timeshare. You don't have to.


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## gmarine (Apr 21, 2009)

FlyerBobcat said:


> Hmmmmm.... . I'm confused...  Is the math really correct here?  For the developer purchase, didn't one have to give up the use of three weeks --- possibly valued at $3000 - $5000 (I'm guessing at rental rates, depending on season/location) ????



Exactly. The math is wrong. The resale buyer still has three weeks use while the developer purchaser gave up use in return for points.


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## Latravel (Apr 21, 2009)

"possibly valued at $3000 - $5000 (I'm guessing at rental rates, depending on season/location"

Who said every owner wants to rent out their unit?  I don't want to mess with that.  I'm talking the cost of the points.  Also, can you tell me which units in the system rent for $5000?  For that much, maybe I would reconsider!


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## Latravel (Apr 21, 2009)

ondeadlin-

If you don't use realistic numbers, your point becomes mute.  We become unable to have a discussion.  I've already stated my opinion for Kenny.


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## TheTimeTraveler (Apr 21, 2009)

If the weeks rented for $5,000 then I think Marriott would keep them and rent them out rather then selling them as Timeshares to the public.


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## tlwmkw (Apr 21, 2009)

The OP's head must be spinning now.  Hope this isn't too confusing.


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## FlyerBobcat (Apr 21, 2009)

Latravel said:


> "possibly valued at $3000 - $5000 (I'm guessing at rental rates, depending on season/location"
> 
> Who said every owner wants to rent out their unit?  I don't want to mess with that.  I'm talking the cost of the points.  Also, can you tell me which units in the system rent for $5000?  For that much, maybe I would reconsider!



Hold it!!!   You cut off an important part of the quote:



> ...give up the use of *three weeks* --- possibly valued at $3000 - $5000 (I'm guessing at rental rates, depending on season/location) ????



So that price range was an estimate for all three weeks that are given up to get the points !!!

You can't do a fair comparison without figuring a rough price of the weeks you are giving up.... (as just mentioned by "gmarine")


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## m61376 (Apr 21, 2009)

Latravel said:


> "possibly valued at $3000 - $5000 (I'm guessing at rental rates, depending on season/location"
> 
> Who said every owner wants to rent out their unit?  I don't want to mess with that.  I'm talking the cost of the points.  Also, can you tell me which units in the system rent for $5000?  For that much, maybe I would reconsider!



Aruba holiday weeks are one example- and I am referring to per week; until the recent economic downturn Platinum weeks there were renting in excess of 3K a week and holiday weeks 5K+. As a matter of fact, when Marriott was doing rentals my friend received $4000 for a week 50 from Marriott. So I know high rental rates do exist there, and I would venture to guess other prime weeks/destinations would have similar values.



Latravel said:


> Despite all of this, (I know I sound crazy) the circumstances in place when I purchased my timeshares are not the same as now. The price difference between resale and direct is more than $12,000 now and Marriott is not offering the same amount of incentive points as they used to. You have to see what Marriott offers you and do some cost benefit analysis, like i've done above to see if it's worth it.


It's nice to see you post this  ; we've stood on different sides of the fence, so to speak, so many times on this issue. I have always maintained that for the right deal (cost differential + incentive points) buying direct might make sense. If I felt that I received enough points up front such that it would pay for a trip that I'd evaluate as coming close to the price differential (not rack rate cost, but the way I've managed to put together some pretty terrific trips in the past), such that the price differential would be minimal and I'd still have the option to trade for points, then it is a no brainer. Although I don't think I'd want to give up my expensive unit, which has inherent value, to trade for those points, it admittedly would be nice to have the option if I ever decided I wanted to.

But at the price differential at most properties over the past two years (which is even greater in today's market) and the smaller up front offerings that have largely been given in the recent past, it becomes harder and harder to justify paying that premium. Of course, a newer property with better price point value and large up front incentives might crop up, especially as Marriott again starts to expand. Time will tell....


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## ondeadlin (Apr 21, 2009)

Latravel said:


> ondeadlin-
> 
> If you don't use realistic numbers, your point becomes mute.  We become unable to have a discussion.  I've already stated my opinion for Kenny.



Again, absolutely hysterical. You do realize that most people are questioning your numbers? 

You're always touting the ability to trade your timeshare for a dream travel package to Europe (7 nights, airfare, etc.).  I've showed you how I can get the same package, in the same amount of time, by buying points from Marriott. It will cost me about $400 more.

We get the same exact thing, except you had to spend $25,000 to buy a timeshare from Marriott for the "right" to trade your week for points.

What about those numbers isn't realistic? The No. 1 benefit for buying developer isn't a benefit when you can buy the same points yourself without buying a timeshare and get the travel package in the exact same amount of time. The math here completely undermines trading for points.


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## m61376 (Apr 21, 2009)

ondeadlin said:


> The math is completely and totally wrong.
> 
> It's wrong because it assumes one has to buy a timeshare. Here's the real math:
> 
> ...


Wow- of all the arguments I've read, this is the most concise illustration I have seen offered. I am impressed!

In all fairness, though, most of the price differences are in the 10-20K range rather than 25K, although there have been the occasional bargains. But the same logic applies.


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## ondeadlin (Apr 21, 2009)

Thank you.

And I'd argue that in this case, the price _difference_ doesn't matter, because we're not really talking about comparing the economics of resale v. developer. We're talking about the economics of buying a timeshare just to trade for points, so you consider the _full_ purchase price.

Now, you might ask, but why would you buy a timeshare _just_ to trade for points?

To which I'd ask, if it's not economical to buy your timeshare and just trade it for points, why would you ever trade it for points? Is it really worth paying a $10,000 to $25,000 premium just to have an "option" that you may or may not use? If you can't justify trading the unit for points every year, why would you ever justify it?

And, given the math above, I clearly don't see how you can justify it every year.


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## Latravel (Apr 22, 2009)

I finally see where you are coming from.  Wow, it's way out there.  Of course no one buys a timeshare JUST for trading for points.  See my post #19 above to see there are other reasons.  Yes, from your logic, you don't need to purchase a timeshare JUST to get points but who does that?

The reason everyone mentions the price difference, not full cost, is because people are trying to determine if the extra option, not sole purpose, of trading for points is worth the price differential.  In my analysis, it is because the incentive points paid for that price differential, so the benefit is free for me after 1 year, in my case.  

I am viewing my ownership from a bigger picture while you are discussing simply and very specifically how to acquire points.  We are talking about 2 completely different points of view.

Nope, no need to explain my mathematics and why the price differential should be divided among the number of times I trade until eventually it breaks even and eventually just costs me $104.  That is what I was going to explain until I understood your point of view.  It just doesn't apply to your approach.

Isn't this discussion off topic?


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## ondeadlin (Apr 22, 2009)

It actually seems most people think it's right on topic.

Yes, we're talking about adding an "option" by buying developer, but what most folks understand is that I've demonstrated above that that "option" is almost completely worthless, because you can acquire the exact same option without ever having to buy a developer timeshare (or any timeshare).

And once you've established that, you're essentially paying developer overhead for two things: The "intangibles" of Marriott ownership (don't have to worry about who you're buying from, etc.) and bonus points that usually amount to one travel package.

Again, you're not getting anything extra by being able to trade for points, because you can get the same benefit without buying a timeshare.


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## Latravel (Apr 22, 2009)

It's so much more than that but I'm not going to state anything new here.  I think the resale route is a perfect fit for you.


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## kenny1975 (Apr 22, 2009)

WOW!  I can't begin to thank you all for this lively discussion!  I've finally been able to digest all of your comments...I've read every one carefully!

Based on everything I've read - here's what my wife and I decided...

First, my wife and I were happy to be able to buy a platinum time and a fabulous new resort that's connected to JW Marriott and Ritz.  The cost to us seemed very reasonable ($22,000), we liked the idea of a lock off unit (stay in a smaller unit and turn the lockoff into MRP) AND we were given one week deposited into our II account to use within one year.

We actually are planning on using the Orlando resort (Lakeshore Reserve) for the forseeable future since we have small kids...but I don't see us going there often when our kids are older (in college)...by that time I envision us buying at least another week via resale in an area like Maui, St. Thomas or Aruba.

I'm learning more every day about how to reserve your week, depositing your week, trading for your week - both within Marriott and through II.

I'm at peace to say that we are not going to rescind our purchase - although I completely appreciate the economics of this all - at the end of the day - we are thrilled to be able to offer our kids a lifetime of family vacations - both in Orlando and elsewhere...for a cost that seems extremely reasonable to me.

If the cost to purchase direct was $65K (like it is in Marco Island for platinum) I never would've purchased into MVC directly.

Once again - I SINCERELY appreciate all of your comments and I'm SO happy that I've joined such a great group of people with commen interests on this forum!!!

Thanks, Kenny!


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## aka Julie (Apr 22, 2009)

kenny1975 said:


> liked the idea of a lock off unit (stay in a smaller unit and turn the lockoff into MRP)



I wasn't aware you could turn in just the lockoff to get MRPs.  Maybe the more experienced TUGgers can chime in on this.


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## kenny1975 (Apr 22, 2009)

Well - that's what we were told...if that's not the case then I'm really going to be upset!


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## ondeadlin (Apr 22, 2009)

You are not allowed to split your unit and deposit one side for points.

Anyone familiar with the Marriott system will confirm that for you.


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## Michigan Czar (Apr 22, 2009)

ondeadlin said:


> You are not allowed to split your unit and deposit one side for points.
> 
> Anyone familiar with the Marriott system will confirm that for you.



I agree, I own Maui Marriott, this is not possible. It has to be your entire unit or nothing.


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## kenny1975 (Apr 22, 2009)

Here's what we were told specifically...

Stay at your home resort (or any MCVI resort that we trade into and use the 1 bedroom side) and roll the "studio" side into the MRP for points.  We remember this exactly because the point was that in 2 years - we would have 200,000 points (100,000 pts per year) saved in MRP which apparantly gives you a trip to any Marriott in the world with round trip airfare for two for a week.

I've just emailed my sales rep at Marriott to confirm but I know for sure that this is what we were told.

Could this be exclusive to Lakeshore Reserve in order to boost sales?


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## ondeadlin (Apr 22, 2009)

Kenny,

Anything's possible, but if you're not holding a piece of paper that has it in writing, TUG experience tells us the sales rep was lying to you. Happens all the time.

Also arguing against this possibility is the fact that other Tuggers have bought at this property and never mentioned this perk.

There is _no chance _IMO they would ever let you lock off, use one side, and then get the full amount of points for the studio. No chance.

And 200,000 MRP is not enough for the "around the world trip" you've been sold on.

You really might want to consider rescinding if today's your last day. You could take more time to become fully informed on the system, and the fact is the price is always going to be there. And even if you're outside the window for rescission, if you make enough of a deal about the rep misleading you, they'll let you out.


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## Latravel (Apr 22, 2009)

_"You are not allowed to split your unit and deposit one side for points. Anyone familiar with the Marriott system will confirm that for you."_


You are wrong on this part.  I guess that means you don't know everything about the Marriott system (shocking).  You CAN turn in just your studio side into points in a special deal when you purchased.  I can with my Shadow Ridge 2 bd.

Based on the sales needs in some resorts, the management decided to sell just a one bedroom or just a studio.  It's based on what the customers needed.  At the end of the day, they have some 1bd left unsold and some studio's unsold.

In order to sell these units, they put the 1bd with the studio and called it a 2 bd.  They are both separate deeds and each unit gets it's own allocation of points.  In my case, my 1 bd gets 65,000 points and my studio gets 45,000 (I believe).  

The benefit is that I have some flexibility with my vacation plans.  Also, you are considered a multiple week owner, even though it really is just a 2bd unit since both units are together.  The downside is that I have to pay a fee for each unit to trade for points.

This was a special circumstance based on sales needs that my husband and I really liked.  We have enjoyed this option so far.  

Please don't always assume salepeople are lying.  Everyone I have dealt with has been above board.  Unless you know for sure, you shouldn't post as if you know something as fact.  If you keep an open mind, you can learn something new everyday.

Kenny - It sounds like you got an outstanding deal for an amazing price!  Great Job and enjoy your new unit!


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## ondeadlin (Apr 22, 2009)

Heidi, sometimes I think if Marriott's CEO were caught stealing candy from a baby on national television, you'd be the only person defending him.

What you're describing is not a 2BR lockoff - it's two different deeds. And it's not what's being described here. I find your answer potentially misleading to newcomers to the board since, yes, anyone familiar with Marriott's sales procedures knows you can't buy a deeded 2BR lockoff, lock it off, and trade half of it for points. And, yes, salespeople lie all the time. Anyone who's spent any time reading TUG knows that.

And what you describe is clearly not what's happening here - the poor guy has been told he can trade his studio for 100,000k.

Now, you tell me, since we both know the system inside and out - _Is that possible in your informed opinion?_


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## Latravel (Apr 22, 2009)

ondeadlin -

Ok, now you are actually telling me what I own and what I purchased, which you have no clue.  I do not write these posts just for you to critique or just to defend myself to you.  Your opinion really doesn't matter.  This is my situation.

It's bizarre to read your comments which shows such distaste and animosity towards Marriott and it appears you are not even an owner.  If you are, you should sell based on the way you feel.  

You asked me if it is possible, in my informed opinion to trade the studio for 100,000 points.  What I hoped you, and others, would see from my post is that for sales, ANYTHING is possible.  You, and I, don't know the tools available to the sales team to make a sale.  I'm just more open minded to the fact I may not know everything.


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## kenny1975 (Apr 22, 2009)

Wow - let's take a step back for second...

What would be the reason to buy a lock-out unit?

Since I know nothing of Marriott...yet...I'd like to make some assumptions...

As described to us...the reason to buy a lock off unit is this...

1) You can close off or lock off the studio side and use the 1 bedroom side for a vacation in May (for example)

2) Then you can use the studio side for another vacation in September (for example)

3) If I don't take a 2nd weeks vacation in the studio...then Marriott ends up with inventory...right?

My question is this...if I don't use the studio side...or the 1 bedroom side...why wouldn't Marriott give me points...they can turn around and try to rent out my unused timeshare...

I can certainly appreciate the fact that maybe I won't get 100k points for my studio side...but you said that I wouldn't get points at all...as a new member to Marriott...are you speaking from experience?  Do you know specifically that Lakeshore Reserve is not offering what I've been told?


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## ondeadlin (Apr 22, 2009)

kenny1975 said:


> Wow - let's take a step back for second...
> As described to us...the reason to buy a lock off unit is this...
> 
> 1) You can close off or lock off the studio side and use the 1 bedroom side for a vacation in May (for example)
> ...



This is all correct and accurate.



kenny1975 said:


> My question is this...if I don't use the studio side...or the 1 bedroom side...why wouldn't Marriott give me points...they can turn around and try to rent out my unused timeshare...
> 
> I can certainly appreciate the fact that maybe I won't get 100k points for my studio side...but you said that I wouldn't get points at all...as a new member to Marriott...are you speaking from experience?  Do you know specifically that Lakeshore Reserve is not offering what I've been told?



I can't tell you why, Kenny, but I can confidently tell you that Marriott does not currently allow you to lock off the studio side of a 2BR and trade it for points.

If you work out a deal where they deed each unit independently, it's possible you could trade one side for points, but no one at TUG has seen that happen at a new development recently (decade or more?)

Again, if you think this is important to you, you should get it in writing, complete with point values, because it would be highly unusual. And, again, I think you should consider getting out of this deal until you get all your questions fully answered by Marriott.


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## Latravel (Apr 22, 2009)

Lock-off's are great.  You are right regarding #1 and 2.  With #3, if you don't intend to use the 2nd weeks vacation, you can rent it out, give it to Interval International (II) to trade for another location, even 2 years out, or, since you purchased direct, you can trade for points.

In general, Marriott doesn't split and allocate points based on separate parts of the unit.  They explained it to me in the past but I forgot why.  Only in special circumstances, such as in my Shadow Ridge unit and your's, is this option open and only at the time of purchase.

In my opinion, it seems unlikely you would get the full 100,000 points just for trading your studio side.  You probably get a fraction of the points, like I do.


_"I can confidently tell you that Marriott does not currently allow you to lock off the studio side of a 2BR and trade it for points."_

ondeadlin is just wrong on this part.    My unit is a 2bd lockoff because Marriott does not sell studios (I believe).  Also, it's reserved in the system as a 2bd, with the option to lock off.


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## ondeadlin (Apr 22, 2009)

Latravel said:


> ondeadlin is just wrong on this part.    My unit is a 2bd lockoff because Marriott does not sell studios (I believe).  Also, it's reserved in the system as a 2bd, with the option to lock off.



Nope, wrong again.

Call the Marriott resale office at Streamside, they'll sell you a Marriott studio resale right now. Ditto for Breckenridge. They may still be selling developer studios at the Grand Residence in Tahoe.

Waiting for inevitable excuse ... but ... but ... they're OLD resorts ... yes, that's why I said Marriott doesn't do this any more, which is why he's not going to be able to trade his studio for points.

And I LOVE how you say I'm wrong and then one sentence later admit you don't really know by adding "I believe".


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## ondeadlin (Apr 22, 2009)

Latravel said:


> In my opinion, it seems unlikely you would get the full 100,000 points just for trading your studio side.  You probably get a fraction of the points, like I do.



Kenny, whatever else you take from this conversation, realize that this would be highly, highly unusual, and you'd better get it in writing if it's important to you.


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## kenny1975 (Apr 22, 2009)

Just to add my two cents...you mentioned Marriott resales office...what about new purchases?

I can see the argument of a lower amount of points but if you get a 2nd week of vacation but utilizing the lock off...common sense would dictate that if you don't use that 2nd weeks vacation...you get points...maybe not 100K...but points none the less...

Regardless....I'm going over my docs now and will see what's in writing and what isn't in writing...


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## ondeadlin (Apr 22, 2009)

kenny1975 said:


> Just to add my two cents...you mentioned Marriott resales office...what about new purchases?



Sure, the Marriott Grand Residence in Tahoe, a pretty new development, sold studio units with the option to trade them in for Marriott Rewards Points. They also had 1BRs that locked off into two studios, but I don't know if you could trade both sides for points.

It's a little different, in that originally all the weeks were fractional, i.e. you had to buy multiple weeks. I was told they later sold some smaller packages.

I'm not aware of any current developments that sell studios, unless the Grand Res still has units available.

http://www.grandresidenceclub.com/en-us/tahoe/property_floor_index.jsp


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## applegirl (Apr 22, 2009)

Kenny,

I completely agree with ondeadlin, that you need to get this in writing about being able to trade just part of your 2 bedroom unit in for MRPs.   

We don't trade in for MRPs, but just as others have said, this is not typically how it's done.  Perhaps if you have a unique situation as latravel explains, but you have not said that your 2 bedroom was unique like hers, right?  Heidi seems to think you have the same situation as her, but you have not explicitly said that.  So I'm a little confused. 

I'm glad that you feel $22k is not a bad deal, but if you were told any untruths or half-truths about what you can and can't do, then you go past the recission period, you may not be as happy as you were when you first bought, believing everything they told you.  I know it's hard to believe anyone could sit there and tell you bold face lies, but unfortunately it does happen.  I don't know that did happen in your case, but you better make sure you know the 100% truth before the recission period passes.

I know you're going over your documents right now.  Good luck in looking at all that fine print and let us know what happens!

Even if you can't lock-off and deposit part of your unit for MRPs doesn't mean that buying from Marriott isn't for you.  I'm not saying that, because only the two of you can decide that.  But I do think that so far you are basing your decision on inaccurate info and therefore may not be making the best decision for your family.  I just hope you can really get all this straightened out before your 10 day period.

If your 2 bedroom unit CANNOT be turned in separately for MRPs, do you really ever think there would be a year where you couldn't use your ONE week?  I highly doubt that, which puts into question the value of trading for MRPs in the first place.  Do you know the truth on how many points it would take to get a "wonderful around the world trip"?  It would take  several years of you depositing your week with Marriott and not getting your vacations.   Do you really want to give up 3 years of vacations for 1 trip using MRPs???   

I think you have a lot to think about and I wish you well on this!

Cheers,
Janna


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## applegirl (Apr 22, 2009)

I forgot to mention something about traveling with your two little ones.  Don't assume that you will want to lock-off your unit every year and always have the kids sleeping on the couch in the living room, or worse yet, all share the lock-off side which would be very cramped for a week, in my opinion!  Once the 4 of you go an stay in the 2 bedroom villa and the kids have their own "suite", it will be hard to do anything but that!  When the kids are older and are not traveling with you then, yes, you may want to do that more often.  But it's soooooooo nice to go on vacation and everyone has their own space, you and your wife have your own privacy, etc.... You will become spoiled quickly.

This is just how we feel about it!   For some families it may not bother them in the least to be in more crowded situations.  For some the prize of getting two vacations for one week is worth it.  For us, we are very spoiled and prefer to have 2 bedrooms as often as possible.

Janna


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## tlwmkw (Apr 22, 2009)

*Latravel*

With your lockoff that has two deeds- do you pay two MF's for each side or just one for the entire unit?  Is the MF higher than if it was deeded as one unit?

As others have said this is very unusual and since there are two deeds it seems it is a different situation from what Kenny describes.  He doesn't mention two deeds but, as you said, Lakeshore Reserve seems to be a totally new type of resort with different unit designs than have been done before by Marriott.

tlwmkw


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## FlyerBobcat (Apr 22, 2009)

kenny1975 said:


> I can see the argument of a lower amount of points but if you get a 2nd week of vacation but utilizing the lock off...common sense would dictate that if you don't use that 2nd weeks vacation...you get points...maybe not 100K...but points none the less...



Kenny.....  Common sense and real-life do not align very often in this area.

And what are you expecting to pay Marriott for converting part of your lock-off to MRPs?  Just some part of the normal $104 fee?  Boy, is this getting complicated....


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## gmarine (Apr 22, 2009)

Kenny, your getting good information from ondeadlin.  

IMO, there is a lot to learn about Marriott and what you are buying. There is no reason to rush into a purchase. Why not rescind then take your time and after doing some research if you still want to buy the same deal will be available. 
However, if you keep this purchase, make sure you get everything in writing. And I mean every little detail about trading for points and usage. Good luck.


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## kenny1975 (Apr 22, 2009)

Ok Everyone

I just got off the phone with Marriott and have just read through the fine print on the contract.  I'm remembering my sales meeting a little wrong so I'm sorry for sending you all down the wrong path.

Here's what we bought (which is what you probably already know)... 

Our usage year starts in 2010 with Lakeshore Reserve...

In 2010 (if we want) we stay in the 1 bedroom side and rollover the other side or lockoff side to use in 2011.

In 2011 - we use the rolled over lockoff unit (and with a little luck) "upgrade" that rolled over week to a resort that doesn't have lock off units...and presto - we luck out with a 2 bed place!  (I don't have any idea how realistic that is)  
...then we take our entire 2011 2 bed unit and roll into points.

In 2012 we're back to where we were in 2010 and start the process over again...

SO - every 3 years we've banked 200K points into the MRP.

Does this make sense and sound reasonable to you all?

Knowing that we already own a beachfront condo in Marco Island, FL and have a DVC membership at Wilderness Lodge...I think that we're getting a great deal...

...but if I'm still missing the boat somewhere along the line...please let me know.

I greatly value all of this feedback!

Thanks!


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## Latravel (Apr 22, 2009)

Now this changes everything...

You have a traditional 2 bd unit like my Timberlodge unit.

Yes, what you describe makes sense.  It's not as hard as you think to upgrade your studio to a 2bd, because during the flexchange period (within 59 days of travel) size restrictions are lifted.  A studio may be able to trade to a 2bd or 1bd during that time period.  Make sure traveling at a short notice is ok with you.  If not, if you need to plan months ahead, you'll be stuck with a studio (which is not a bad thing).

Remember there is a fee to lock off your unit - I think $75.

Another great benefit:  Sometimes II really wants your unit so they'll offer you an extra week called an accommodation certificate (AC) if you give them your week to trade.  Now, you'll have 3weeks a year to play with if you lock off.  There are restrictions except within the flexchange period.  We got Thanksgiving week in Newport Coast with an AC (they are only 2 bd).  At some point, you may have too many weeks banked, at which point we trade some in for points.


So, your unit trades for 100,000 points?  That's not optimum but ok.  Mine trade for 110,000.  Did you get any incentive points?


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## tlwmkw (Apr 22, 2009)

Kenny,

What you are saying does make sense.  Do you have two full one beds when you lockoff (instead of a one bed and a studio).  If so you will have much better trade power.  I think this sounds like a very reasonable way to use your unit.

Heidi,

I don't doubt you at all.  I agree with much of what you say and also see the value of MRP's (despite the fact that they are so unpopular with so many)- we are going on a trip to London in August and will save thousands on hotel costs (less savings now that the exchange rate has improved but still significant).

tlwmkw


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## capstoneds (Apr 22, 2009)

*My Sales Experience at Lakeshore*

FWIW, I took at tour in Feb at Lakeshore.  I had a newbie sales girl.  Don't remember her name.  I believe she had some of her facts wrong about points/trading (intention or not).  She told us that we could split the unit, staying in half the unit every year, turning in the other year for points.  That way you get to stay at Lakeshore every year plus get points every other year.  

Of course you could potentially do this through some wrangling in II, but she presented it as if it was a given, proven sure thing easily done through Marriott.


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## gmarine (Apr 22, 2009)

kenny1975 said:


> Ok Everyone
> 
> I just got off the phone with Marriott and have just read through the fine print on the contract.  I'm remembering my sales meeting a little wrong so I'm sorry for sending you all down the wrong path.
> 
> ...



My problem with the purchase is that you think your getting a great deal. Your not. The minute the purchase is completed you would be lucky to get half of what you paid for it. To me, that isnt a good deal. Your also counting on trading a studio for a two bedroom unit. Sure it can happen, but assuming it will is a mistake. Keep in mind that when you say "rollover" to the next year you must deposit that unit with Interval in order to use it at a later date. You are then subject to availability with regrds to where you can travel.

You could purchase a platinum resale lockout unit at a different resort for $15K less and accomplish the same goal. And you would accumulate MR points faster by buying 100K every year for almost the same cost as your maintenance fees.

Look, if you want this unit because your going to use it, and you really want to go to this resort all the time then go ahead. But if your buying it because you think its a great deal, you want to trade it or because of MR points then your making a mistake. Good luck.


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## capstoneds (Apr 22, 2009)

kenny1975 said:


> Ok Everyone
> 
> I just got off the phone with Marriott and have just read through the fine print on the contract.  I'm remembering my sales meeting a little wrong so I'm sorry for sending you all down the wrong path.
> 
> ...




OK, That's what they told me when I was there in Feb.  However, using your scenario above, they make it sound like your rollover week can automatically be used at Lakeshore in 2011, when in reality, you have to deposit it into II and roll the dice on what it will trade for in 2011.


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## FlyerBobcat (Apr 22, 2009)

kenny1975 said:


> Ok Everyone .....
> ...........
> *SO - every 3 years we've banked 200K points into the MRP.*



Since you are converting to 100K points (for $104) every _other _year, I think the math is:
. . . every 3 years we've banked *150K points* (avg)  into the MRP.

And make sure you also account for the yearly II fees (when you referred to the "rollover").


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## pwrshift (Apr 22, 2009)

Make sure you get everything in writing, of course.

Lakeshore Reserve is quite unlike any otehr TS Marriott has ... it will have 340 villas and townhomes in six floor plans ranging from 1,185 to 1,655 square feet.  There could be a lot more flexibility in trading for some of the larger ones that other Marriott owners don't know.

I'm not clear exactly what you bought at Lakeshore Reserve ... was it the 2 bdrm lockoff suite that had just a regular studio with kitchenette ... or did both sides have a full kitchen - in other words, two one-bedroom suites attached by a door but with separate entrances? If so, I think there is a special deal on trading each side even though one is smaller - if I remember correctly from when I considered buying when it was announced. 

I doubt that there would be that opportunity with the 'regular' 2 bdrm suite with a regular 'studio'...but hope you are correct as it would be nice to see some flexibility at Marriott's new properties.

Brian

Here are the floor plans:
http://timeshares.marriott-vacation...s/lakeshore/floorplans.html?loc=DB59*1-1XZKIB


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## ondeadlin (Apr 22, 2009)

FlyerBobcat said:


> Since you are converting to 100K points (for $104) every _other _year, I think the math is:
> . . . every 3 years we've banked *150K points* (avg)  into the MRP.



This is accurate


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## ondeadlin (Apr 22, 2009)

pwrshift said:


> I doubt that there would be that opportunity with the 'regular' 2 bdrm suite with a regular 'studio'...but hope you are correct as it would be nice to see some flexibility at Marriott's new properties.



Given the explanation above, I think he's got a standard 2 bdrm with a studio lockoff.

But I agree with you that it would be a smart perk if one side of the 1BR/1BR lockoff could be traded for points. Don't see why they wouldn't do it.


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## pwrshift (Apr 22, 2009)

That is an amazing floor plan illustration coupled with pictures!  Just click on an arrow and the view shows.  Cool.

http://timeshares.marriott-vacation...s/lakeshore/floorplans.html?loc=DB59*1-1XZKIB


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## Michigan Czar (Apr 23, 2009)

kenny1975 said:


> Ok Everyone
> Our usage year starts in 2010 with Lakeshore Reserve...
> 
> In 2010 (if we want) we stay in the 1 bedroom side and rollover the other side or lockoff side to use in 2011.
> ...



How can everyone say this makes sense? It seems like another sales rep lie. If he makes a trade in 2011 how does he take this trade and deposit it for points? In my opinion this is not possible, if it is please tell me how.


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## m61376 (Apr 23, 2009)

Michigan Czar said:


> How can everyone say this makes sense? It seems like another sales rep lie. If he makes a trade in 2011 how does he take this trade and deposit it for points? In my opinion this is not possible, if it is please tell me how.



Because he is trading half of his 2010 week for use in 2011. He is trading his 2011 week for points.


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## kenny1975 (Apr 23, 2009)

Ok - 1 final post here...hopefully...

I HAVE TWO DAYS LEFT OF MY RECISSION PERIOD

I feel good about what I bought...BUT...I need a little clarification since a previous (recent) post is leading me to believe that I'm not getting a great deal.

So...I want to paint a final picture for the experts on this site and see what you all think...

I think $22K is very reasonable for a lifetime of vacations in top notch resorts (and I realize I will have annual dues, fees, etc.)

We DO NOT plan on using the Orlando resort (Lakeshore Reserve) all too often (maybe once or twice every 5 years or so).  I envision us wanting to explore many other areas - but MAINLY MARRIOTT VC PROPERTIES.

Top of our list are Maui, St. Thomas, St. Kitts, Hilton Head, Myrtle Beach, etc.

We already go to Florida once a year at least...already...so that's why we don't think we'll actually use Orlando all that much...BUT...we thought since it's a new resort with really unique features that it would be a great trader for the next 5-10 years...like I've heard Grand Vista was.

If I never found this site...I'd be sitting hear happy as I was when I put my deposit down.  Don't get me wrong...I'm thirlled that I found this site but due to the conflicting reports...taking into consideration my planned use for MVCI - I'd like to hear from you all on if you think a resale (and where) is a better option for us...

Thanks for everything!


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## FlyerBobcat (Apr 23, 2009)

Oh Kenny,

Upon reading all this, I can't help but start to think you are asking for advice, but really don't want to hear what is being said....   Sorry I said that,  but...

A previous post indicated you would lock-off and deposit 1/2.  Now it seems you don't really want to stay at your new place much at all.

Many people have pointed out that you can get a much better deal resale, and do something just about the same as your currents plans.  If you are stuck on paying for those expensive points, what are your plans for those points?  Sounds like you have plenty of vacation planned already...

I have a feeling based on what you are saying that you'd have no regrets in your current purchase -- and that's good.  I just wonder about your hassle of locking-off, depositing, trading up for that gem, etc.  That part certainly ruins the timesharing experience for some  (but for others, it is THE fun!)


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## Michigan Czar (Apr 23, 2009)

m61376 said:


> Because he is trading half of his 2010 week for use in 2011. He is trading his 2011 week for points.



My bad, I reread it and now it makes sense. I thought he was saying he would trade his acquired trade from II into points. Thanks.


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## luv2vacation (Apr 23, 2009)

Just to let you know, Kenny, if you want to rescind and take a little more time.  I just got an e-mail (today) from one of the Marriott salesman that always keeps me up-to-date on everything - they've extended the 25% off sale for another full month.  So if you want to rescind and learn a little more, you can still get that sale price for another month (if that's still what you want to buy after you've learned a bit more).

Personally, even though I really like lock-offs better (because my children are grown), it sounds like you might enjoy a summer week in HH or MB more.  Those are fabulous resorts to go to and they trade extremely well.  The new Lakeshores property sounds extremely nice but there is just such a glut of gorgeous TS's in Orlando (not all just Marriotts), I can't see it ever being a difficult trade to get into.

In fact, I LOVE Marriott TS's, very rarely stay anywhere else, but we stayed at the International Drive Hilton in Orlando last year and that was absolutely the best TS I have EVER been in.  The service and amenities there even outdid Marriott.


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## Latravel (Apr 23, 2009)

pwrshift - 

Since you've been to a presentation at that resort, what do you think about the trading power?


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## Steve (Apr 23, 2009)

kenny1975 said:


> Ok - 1 final post here...hopefully...
> 
> I HAVE TWO DAYS LEFT OF MY RECISSION PERIOD
> 
> I feel good about what I bought...BUT...I need a little clarification since a previous (recent) post is leading me to believe that I'm not getting a great deal.



If you're happy with your purchase, then stick with it.  But you are NOT getting a great deal.  $22,000 for a week in Orlando is way too much.  

Personally, I would rescind at once and buy a resale Marriott.  If you want a lockoff, I would look at Manor Club Sequel, Ocean Pointe or Grande Vista.  

Steve


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## gmarine (Apr 23, 2009)

kenny1975 said:


> Ok - 1 final post here...hopefully...
> 
> I HAVE TWO DAYS LEFT OF MY RECISSION PERIOD
> 
> ...



If you dont plan on going to that resort most of the time there is absolutely no reason to buy that resort . You could accomplish the same trades for 
$15K  plus less if you want a Marriott. Or consider a platinum two bedroom lock off Starwood property and pocket the left over $20K. A lifeime of great vacations for 22K isnt bad ? The same lifetime of great vacations with 20K in your pocket is better, no? 

Dont forget that your maintenace fees are going to go up EVERY year. And the fees may be currently subsidized by Marriott only to make a large jump in the future.

Again, your not getting a great deal. Its way too much for an Orlando timeshare. 

How about I sell you my platinum 2 bedroom Marriott Manor club and my two bedroom lock off Sheraton Desert Oasis for $20K? Sounds good right? You would be overpaying by around 12K.

Rescind then take your time and buy resale.


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## jaym (Apr 23, 2009)

kenny1975 said:


> Ok - 1 final post here...hopefully...
> 
> I think $22K is very reasonable for a lifetime of vacations in top notch resorts (and I realize I will have annual dues, fees, etc.)
> 
> ...



kenny1975- 
 Despite on all the specifics provided by contributors regarding overall value, you seem content with your cash outlay for buying developer, obtaining the benefit of MRW points. With that in mind, and the fact that many Marriott Orlando TS will be easier (for most part) to trade into, why aren't you more interested in St. Thomas (MFC) for actual purchase from MAR? You stated Orlando may only be visited every 5 yrs. or so, if that, so why buy there?! 
It seems like an island resort is something you would be more inclined to actually use/visit. Great trade power in peak season would likely yield strong exchange. So if MFC is chosen as home resort, you could avoid exchange fees on the occasions, possibly every few years, you stay there. Have you considered inquiry to salesperson for a cost comparison of Lakeshore vs. Frenchman's Cove? They may be in same cost ballpark, although different in features. That is less of an issue for trading strategy, focus on demand. 
As many have mentioned, you may want to rescind and do a bit more research. 
I, for one, am willing to bet the decision to delay could benefit you in a number of ways. Marriott will likely be eager to hold the sale and may offer even greater incentives, you may decide on other home location where you will actually use, as opposed to a trader only. Why rush in?? Patience with $22k in a dicey economic backdrop is a wise approach.......good luck.

JM


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## Lizyyz (Apr 23, 2009)

kenny1975 said:


> I think $22K is very reasonable for a lifetime of vacations in top notch resorts (and I realize I will have annual dues, fees, etc.)
> 
> We DO NOT plan on using the Orlando resort (Lakeshore Reserve) all too often (maybe once or twice every 5 years or so).  I envision us wanting to explore many other areas - but MAINLY MARRIOTT VC PROPERTIES.
> 
> Top of our list are Maui, St. Thomas, St. Kitts, Hilton Head, Myrtle Beach, etc.



Kenny, I've been following this thread (and just about every thread that talks about resale and developer purchase) as we are in the same boat except that I've been on the boat 2 years longer than you have.  Why have I not jumped after 2 years? Because, echoing a similar post above, I'm beginning to discover that the above are achievable for less than $22K.  What you might miss if you don't buy Lakeshore is the pride of ownership and that is probably worth $22K to you.

Good luck in your decision!


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## tlwmkw (Apr 23, 2009)

Kenny,

One thing Iis that Lakeshore Reserve will start to appear as re-sales at some point (people like you who have bought and waited to long to rescind may have/want to sell).  You could always buy then.  If points are really important to you consider getting a Marriott Rewards Visa and collecting points that way as well as buying them as has already been mentioned.  

I bought developer and have been happy but I've never traded for points (I'd rather use my weeks) so the extra cost hasn't paid off in that way.  I did get lots of points when I bought and have had lots of value from those so I'm not so upset but if I still had the extra cash in my pocket that would be nice.

One other point is that the purchase if very smooth with Marriott.  Some people feel that this is a reason to buy from them also.  If that is a concern for you then you can buy from a trusted/experience resale agent who would give you a smooth purchase experience also.  Personally I wouldn't buy off of E-bay or Redweek but many do and have been happy with the results.

Make sure you look at all the options.  $22k is a lot of money and make sure you will not have regrets later.

Just some extra thoughts.

tlwmkw


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## hockeybrain (Apr 23, 2009)

Kenny - lots of good advice above.   Good thread to read.   I suggest you take heed.   In any event good luck to you.............


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## Latravel (Apr 23, 2009)

_"I, for one, am willing to bet the decision to delay could benefit you in a number of ways. Marriott will likely be eager to hold the sale and may offer even greater incentives, you may decide on other home location where you will actually use, as opposed to a trader only."_

This is excellent advice, the best you've received.


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## doodles1 (Apr 23, 2009)

Hi Kenny

My wife and I just purchased resale at Kauai Beach Club.
This unit will trade well for our needs and serve us well as our home resort.
As we were not interested in MRP buying resales was not an issue.
We paid a fraction of what you are considering.
We would never buy a week were we were not planning to spend at least every other year. I echo others 22K is a lot for a resort you are not going to make your home resort. There are a fair number of red/platinum weeks resale for alot less that will serve you just as well.
Good luck I know you have a ton of info to digest, my wife and could never have made our decision with out the help of this forum

Jay


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## applegirl (Apr 23, 2009)

FlyerBobcat said:


> Oh Kenny,
> 
> Upon reading all this, I can't help but start to think you are asking for advice, but really don't want to hear what is being said....



I think for whatever reason you are pretty set on buying from Marriott at THIS property.  We have given you tons of excellent advice, but in the end you will do what you feel is best for your family and peace of mind.

Personally, if you are not staying at this property at least every other year, I think you could do way better for trading power by buying a resale Marriott for Hilton Head, Myrtle Beach, Newport Coast or St. Thomas.  Then if you book a prime season week every year, you will be able to trade almost anywhere you want!  With Orlando, not so much.

You haven't mentioned much more about MRPs, so I'm beginning to think that is not a big deal for you (and the only real reason to buy developer).

Best of luck on your decision!  You still have not responded to my PM I sent you a couple of days ago.  I know you're busy.

Cheers,
Janna


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## Swice (Apr 23, 2009)

*lockoffs*

I'm not clear on something:

Some units at Lakeshore are new "super" lockoffs.    That would give you TWO "one bedrooms" to trade with Interval.... not a "one bedroom" and a "studio."

A true "one bedroom" would pull better than a "studio."

What kind did Kenny buy?


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## m61376 (Apr 23, 2009)

Kenny- With the extension of the sale I would think you'd be making a huge mistake not to rescind. And, before anyone jumps down my throat, it is not because I am jumping on the rescind and buy resale bandwagon, although I do think that you can do much better in the resale market.

The very fact that you are still questioning your decision tells me you are not convinced that it is the right one. For most people, 22K is somewhere between a tremendous amount and a significant amount of money, and you should be reasonably confident of what you are buying before spending it. It seems to me that you still have more to understand and should take at least a few more weeks to understand it.

Off the bat, there are a few things, besides the price, that bother me wrt what you want and what you've purchased. Foremost is you don't really seem interested in using it. Another thing is that the places you want to trade into are all hard properties to get so you want to have a strong trader. Lakeshore will be brand new so it will likely be a fabulous trader for the first two years, but then it won't be so brand new and it will still be in Orlando. I am not so sure that it will consistently get you into peak weeks at top resorts, especially as the kids get older and you want that 2BR in Maui, Caribbean, etc.. Better traders can be bought elsewhere resale for less money. 

I haven't sensed that you really looked into whether or not you want to be able to trade for points. I am not going to argue with you to buy resale if you feel you will avail yourself of that opportunity and make good use of it, and that it makes sense to you financially. There are other threads which you can easily read through that discusses that issue. But- unless you know enough about trading for points that you feel paying extra is worthwhile for you and your family, you should hold off buying.

Rescind now, call or e-mail the salesperson if you'll feel better (although that's not necessary) and tell them you need a few more weeks to reconsider, and take the opportunity to learn more about things.


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## kenny1975 (Apr 23, 2009)

I did not buy one of those "deluxe" 2 bedrooms - just the standard 2 bed lock off...

BTW everyone - I just negotiated a resale at St. Thomas (gold) for $10,800 with 1 year maintenance and all closing costs included.  Gold is the time that we can travel there in the summer...with the kids.  We'd actually use this resort at least every other year...

Please chime in...


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## gmarine (Apr 23, 2009)

kenny1975 said:


> I did not buy one of those "deluxe" 2 bedrooms - just the standard 2 bed lock off...
> 
> BTW everyone - I just negotiated a resale at St. Thomas (gold) for $10,800 with 1 year maintenance and all closing costs included.  Gold is the time that we can travel there in the summer...with the kids.  We'd actually use this resort at least every other year...
> 
> Please chime in...




Much better than 22K for Orlando. Wise choice.


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## applegirl (Apr 23, 2009)

That is certainly a better price at a great resort.  Keep in mind it's not Platinum though, so your trading power won't be as great and you said you really wanted to exchange into different resorts.  Resale weeks are not going anywhere, I don't think you should rush into any purchase right now.  Make sure you buy what you wil be happy with in the long run.

St. Thomas in the summer every other year sounds great, I just hope the trading power will be good enough for your needs.

Cheers,
Janna


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## gmarine (Apr 24, 2009)

The gold and platinum designations relate to Marriott only. They dont necessarily apply to trading power with II. St Thomas Gold season will more than likely trade better than Orlando platinum because of the abundance of Orlando timeshares compared to the low supply of St Thomas timeshares.


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## LisaRex (Apr 24, 2009)

Certainly owning at a high-demand resort where you'll visit most years makes more sense than buying in Orlando.  I'd never buy in Orlando because most weeks you can scoop up a Marriott or Westin TS via II Getaways for less than you'd pay in MFs.  If you don't know what those are, they are excess weeks available to all II members for cash.   

For instance, there are currently summer weeks available at Marriott's Grande Vista, Cypress Harbour, Harbour Lake, Sabal Palms and Sheraton Vistana Resorts for $72/night (studio) to $111/night (2 bdrm).  That's less than you'd pay in MFs and you don't have to spend $22k to purchase it either.  You simply have to belong to II. 

A few cautions about St. Thomas:

1) I own a TS in Maui that is dependent on flying to get there.  Currently flights are reasonably priced.  That may not always be the case, as we learned in 2007/08.  If airfare doubled, would you still take the wife and kids to St. Thomas every other year?  Had we not been able to book award seats with frequent flyer miles, it would have cost us $4400 just to get the 4 of us to Maui last summer.  

2) A lot of TripAdvisor reviews write negatively about St. Thomas because they believe there is an undercurrent of racism on the island. From talking to local St. Johnians when I visited in January, some of that criticism is warranted and some is not.  While some of the TA reviews are overly dramatic, recent unrest in Martinique and Jamaica suggest that what tension does exist will only worsen as the downturn in the economy takes its toll on these islands which are largely dependent upon tourism. 

Good luck to you.


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