# Attended a presentation at Grande Vista...



## NboroGirl (Mar 29, 2015)

When we checked in last week, we went to pick up our "free gift" at the concierge desk, which is just a ploy to get you over there so they can try and sign you up for one of their sales presentations.  (And the gift is just a blue card that gives you some discounts at the resorts, most of them aren't useful to us).  It was pitched to us as an information session for owners.  We'd be the FIRST to learn about the new changes that are coming at the end of April.  They offered $125 in VISA gift cards or 20,000 MRPs.  I asked my husband if he was interested.  We decided to attend since it was supposed to explain the new stuff to us (before anyone else learned about it), and it was only 1 hr. 15 min. (and my husband said he'd use the $125 for golf).  BTW, they offered $75 to our friends who were staying with us if they attended. They declined.

Our appointment was for 8:00 a.m. on Monday.  I set my phone's timer app to go off at 9:15 and we sat and waited for Margarita, who promptly informed us this was a sales pitch.  My husband said "THEN WE WERE LIED TO!"  In all fairness, she asked "Do you want to end this?"  I didn't know if we'd still receive the points, and I was still interested in learning what this "new" information was, so we continued.

Well, it was ONLY a sales pitch for points.  She tried to scare us by telling us things like we'd be locked out of all the newer Marriotts if we didn't buy trust points, inventory in Interval would dry up, our investment would lose value without trust points, etc. We use one of our weeks every year and usually trade one, so I wasn't too concerned about any of that. It was funny when the timer on my phone started beeping and I said "Time's up!".  But she continued, telling us the minimum purchase was 2500 points, but then got "her boss" who said 1500 points were being offered to owners in the beginning, and if we never declined that offer in writing when we first enrolled our weeks, ( I don't remember declining it, but I know I wasn't interested) we could still get that.  When we said we weren't interested, he lowered his voice to almost a whisper and said Marriott was offering to sell 1000 points to owners who owned since the 1980s, but he could give that offer that to us as well.  (We bought our weeks in 2003).

We said we still weren't interested.  We came there to learn what Marriott was rolling out in April but we didn't learn anything new. (We already knew about the new levels of ownership but the concierge made it sound like there was something more coming.) We finally got out of there, 1 hr. 45 minutes later.  What a waste of time.


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## dioxide45 (Mar 29, 2015)

Waste of time? You got $125 out of it. Could have had 20K in MRPs. You have to know already that they "embellish" a lot when they talk up the "update". This isn't anything new. We know already how the game is played.


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## amanda14 (Mar 29, 2015)

And honestly you are an educated consumer so why bother attending?  You knew you weren't going to learn anything new.

I just got the call to set up a meeting when in Lakeshore soon and I politely declined.  Not much pressure to do so, but I know our sales rep will call us directly since he is in Orlando, but for 125 bucks I may or may not take it since this time it is just my wife and I for a few days and no kids.

Leaning on the side of not going - why?  I don't want to waste their side and all I need to know is on this site.


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## bazzap (Mar 29, 2015)

For as long as they promote these sessions as owner updates and offer an incentive to attend, I really don't see any problem in accepting them as such.
Yes, they may see them purely as sales pitches, but for us there will be new things we want to learn about - changes/developments at the resort, new resorts (perhaps for real this time?), new DC points experiences, as a specific the planned integration of AP and DC points programmes... etc
If though they want to be more open and offer say a choice of 
- an incentivised 90 minute sales pitch
- a non incentivised 30 minute real owner update
that is fine and we will go with the latter when we feel there is a need


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## dioxide45 (Mar 29, 2015)

bazzap said:


> For as long as they promote these sessions as owner updates and offer an incentive to attend, I really don't see any problem in accepting them as such.
> Yes, they may see them purely as sales pitches, but for us there will be new things we want to learn about - changes/developments at the resort, new resorts (perhaps for real this time?), new DC points experiences, as a specific the planned integration of AP and DC points programmes... etc
> If though they want to be more open and offer say a choice of
> - an incentivised 90 minute sales pitch
> ...



The problem with the latter is that it doesn't make them any money and takes one away from selling weeks. Plus, not many people will sign up for it.


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## bazzap (Mar 29, 2015)

dioxide45 said:


> The problem with the latter is that it doesn't make them any money and takes one away from selling weeks. Plus, not many people will sign up for it.


Perhaps so, but I do believe it is not an unreasonable request for owners to seek updates.
If not many sign up, it won't distract them too much anyway.
If they save the extra 60 minutes and incentives from those who do sign up, they can arguably focus those sales resources on more likely sales prospects.
They could also concentrate limited resources on group update sessions, which I believe are held at some resorts now. This would minimise distraction from their sales efforts, whilst providing a genuine and worthwhile customer service.


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## luv2trvl2 (Mar 29, 2015)

*Just attended presentation at Timber Lodge in Tahoe*

Just completed a presentation at Timber Lodge and heard pretty much the exact same speech at nobogirl just reported.  It's scary, almost word for word.  The only difference is that I think the sales person (who was very personable and not high pressure) pretty much figured out from our conversation that we were not going with their plan.  He finished with us within an hour and didn't even show us pricing.  Out of curiosity, we asked for it.  In our case, they were requiring 2,000 at a purchase point of $24,950.  He then suggested that for our situation, not having attended a presentation for the past 18 months, that we consider 1000 point purchase so we don't miss out on the inventory trade availability since they are no longer going to offer as much to Interval, blah, blah, blah.  We passed.  

In any case, I was curious, now with the new destinations point program, are those up for resale and how does that work?  We do like Marriott and have been pleased to use the week's system.  We did buy the destinations program for the option of points, but so far they haven't worked as we don't have that many.  I've thought about buying more (resale of course) but I don't know if that is an option.  Is anyone familiar how that works?


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## jme (Mar 29, 2015)

I've said many times, the updates are great. We meet new people, make friends, go get a great breakfast after, and we take our 250 DC gift points and use them to get 3 extra off-season nights at Hilton Head. For a 90-min gift from us, I'll do it whenever it's offered.


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## Fasttr (Mar 29, 2015)

luv2trvl2 said:


> In any case, I was curious, now with the new destinations point program, are those up for resale and how does that work?  We do like Marriott and have been pleased to use the week's system.  We did buy the destinations program for the option of points, but so far they haven't worked as we don't have that many.  I've thought about buying more (resale of course) but I don't know if that is an option.  Is anyone familiar how that works?



There is a resale points market, and it will cost you around $4-$5 per point, plus $2 per point in junk fees to have Marriott "initiate" them for full use in the system, but in your case, before you even think about purchasing points resale, I would highly recommend you just rent points on either www.vacationpointexchange.com, or www.ownertrades.com for a year or two to see if you like the points system.  Even then, with the abundance of points available to rent, the even bigger question is why buy points, even resale, because as an enrolled owner you already have an account and renting points is so easy and the cost is approximately the same as the  annual MF per point if you owned them, so you get all the benefits at basically the same annual costs....but *without* the upfront cost of buying them.


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## etplitt3TS (Mar 29, 2015)

Wow, heard the same pitch on Friday at Grande Vista.  I guess we are not so special after all. LOL


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## SeaDoc (Mar 29, 2015)

NboroGirl said:


> When we checked in last week, we went to pick up our "free gift" at the concierge desk, which is just a ploy to get you over there so they can try and sign you up for one of their sales presentations.  (And the gift is just a blue card that gives you some discounts at the resorts, most of them aren't useful to us).  It was pitched to us as an information session for owners.  We'd be the FIRST to learn about the new changes that are coming at the end of April.  They offered $125 in VISA gift cards or 20,000 MRPs.  I asked my husband if he was interested.  We decided to attend since it was supposed to explain the new stuff to us (before anyone else learned about it), and it was only 1 hr. 15 min. (and my husband said he'd use the $125 for golf).  BTW, they offered $75 to our friends who were staying with us if they attended. They declined.
> 
> Our appointment was for 8:00 a.m. on Monday.  I set my phone's timer app to go off at 9:15 and we sat and waited for Margarita, who promptly informed us this was a sales pitch.  My husband said "THEN WE WERE LIED TO!"  In all fairness, she asked "Do you want to end this?"  I didn't know if we'd still receive the points, and I was still interested in learning what this "new" information was, so we continued.
> 
> ...


If you are looking to get to a certain tier level to get access to discounts,  longer banking options,  then purchasing additional points is your only way to get there...  



Fasttr said:


> There is a resale points market, and it will cost you around $4-$5 per point, plus $2 per point in junk fees to have Marriott "initiate" them for full use in the system, but in your case, before you even think about purchasing points resale, I would highly recommend you just rent points on either www.vacationpointexchange.com, or www.ownertrades.com for a year or two to see if you like the points system.  Even then, with the abundance of points available to rent, the even bigger question is why buy points, even resale, because as an enrolled owner you already have an account and renting points is so easy and the cost is approximately the same as the  annual MF per point if you owned them, so you get all the benefits at basically the same annual costs....but *without* the upfront cost of buying them.


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## BocaBoy (Mar 29, 2015)

jme said:


> I've said many times, the updates are great. We meet new people, make friends, go get a great breakfast after, and we take our 250 DC gift points and use them to get 3 extra off-season nights at Hilton Head. For a 90-min gift from us, I'll do it whenever it's offered.



I couldn't have said it better.  My sentiments exactly.


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## jme (Mar 30, 2015)

*Looking at the update in a mathematical way.*

Here's the deal.

We Tuggers are always searching for "value". (Some of the mathematical posts get so convoluted that I don't even read them sometimes. I just skip to the punch line....)

Here's mine, short and sweet. (Shhhhhhhhhh!!!)

I give them 1.5 hours to attend the presentation, I receive 250 or 225 DC points (whatever they elect to give). 

HH off-season weeknights at Grande Ocean take 75 points per night. Three nights take 225 points. That's 66 hours of EXTRA vacation (4 pm check-in until 10 am check-out).

So I give 1.5 and get 66 (more if I stay longer that last day). 
That's a factor of *44x*.  

Would anyone swap $100 for $4400?  or $20 for $880?   

Value.

So if anyone thinks the 90 minute update isn't worth their time, maybe they're not utilizing the process in the right way.


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## jpc763 (Mar 30, 2015)

We are headed to Newport Coast Villas on Friday for a 5 night DC points trip and were offered a presentation.  Since we are doing Disney for 3 days they offered us the presentation on our check out day.

We were offered

20K MR points

$125 Amex Gift Card

or 

Golf for 1 (Pelican Hill) or 2 (Oak Creek)

There was no mention of DC points or the maintenance fee discount we were previously offered (years ago).

We were offered a later checkout however.

Not sure we are going to go.

John


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## GrayFal (Mar 30, 2015)

jme said:


> Here's the deal.
> 
> We Tuggers are always searching for "value". (Some of the mathematical posts get so convoluted that I don't even read them sometimes. I just skip to the punch line....)
> 
> ...



I will ask for DC points the next time.  Certainly better then 20,000 MRP in my book.


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## BobG7734 (Mar 30, 2015)

I agree completely with your posting...and, you forgot the free breakfast!  For the life of me I do not understand why people continue to go if they are going to whine about it or complain about being lied to or having to show their one-up-mans-ship to get satisfaction.  Those types of posts are a waste of time IMHO.





jme said:


> Here's the deal.
> 
> We Tuggers are always searching for "value". (Some of the mathematical posts get so convoluted that I don't even read them sometimes. I just skip to the punch line....)
> 
> ...


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## dioxide45 (Mar 30, 2015)

rcgrogan said:


> I agree completely with your posting...and, you forgot the free breakfast!  For the life of me I do not understand why people continue to go if they are going to whine about it or complain about being lied to or having to show their one-up-mans-ship to get satisfaction.  Those types of posts are a waste of time IMHO.



I wouldn't call it much of a breakfast. The last few presentations we have been to they have had a pretty sorry spread. Coffee, some juice and perhaps some powdered donuts and prepackaged muffins. I certainly never go to a Marriott presentation for the breakfast.


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## jpc763 (Mar 31, 2015)

jpc763 said:


> We are headed to Newport Coast Villas on Friday for a 5 night DC points trip and were offered a presentation.  Since we are doing Disney for 3 days they offered us the presentation on our check out day.
> 
> We were offered
> 
> ...



After reading this thread, I replied to the email about setting up the sales presentation (the one that listed the options above) and asked about getting DC points instead.

Here is the reply... 

"Hi John,

We never gave Destination Club points as a gift incentive.

It had too many restrictions.

Thank you."

Now I am not sure who "we" is but I have received DC points for going to a presentation in the past.  (somewhere between 250 and 400).

What I have to ask myself... Is 90 minutes of our time (wife and me) worth $125 OR a night in Cat 4 Marriott?

I don't think so.  I would do it for the DC points, but not for MR points.


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## GreenTea (Mar 31, 2015)

I was offered 250 one time use DC points with a 2 year life to attend a presentation in Hilton Head earlier this month.   I didn't do it.


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## Quilter (Mar 31, 2015)

jme said:


> Here's the deal.
> 
> We Tuggers are always searching for "value". (Some of the mathematical posts get so convoluted that I don't even read them sometimes. I just skip to the punch line....)
> 
> ...



Respectfully, you give a good argument.   I almost called to make an appointment.   Then DH and I went over the possibilities.

250 DC points could get us 2 nights on HHI during our time frame which is Mar. - May or Sept. - Dec.   We have further to drive so Jan. is highly unlikely.  

Renting 250 points for $.55 - $.65 is $137.50 - $162.50.   

1.5 hrs. is not really 1.5 hrs.   You have to set time aside.   Possibly change from pool/beach wear to street clothes.   Drive.   Wait and munch on stuff you don't like.   

Then the presentation is rarely (ever) with your new best friend.   If you try to be friendly it will go over 90 mins.   You will possibly hear how they got into selling, how they love selling, how much they make at selling, how they use their weeks. . .    All to make you feel this is such a great product.   Remember, they have been trained and you are the focus of utilizing that training.   They are in the business of selling.   Not in the business of making new best friends.    If you try to ask minimal questions and keep the talk strictly on target the presentation can get uncomfortable.   They have the control.   You can wait and wait for the encore presentation and to sign off.  

When you're all done it will be more than 1.5 hrs.   It can live with you for years if the presentation was uncomfortable.   Do you want to subject yourself to the fuss of getting ready, possible irritation, and a day of vacation chopped up by something so unproductive.   What can you learn there that you don't learn here?

For a couple off-season nights on HHI or 250 DC points towards a high-season night at OP it is still the same.   Currently $137.50 - $162.50.    Go to marriott.com and see how much a Jan. night at Monarch or Harbor Club costs with an owner's discount.


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## jme (Mar 31, 2015)

Quilter said:


> Respectfully, you give a good argument.   I almost called to make an appointment.   Then DH and I went over the possibilities.
> 
> 250 DC points could get us 2 nights on HHI during our time frame which is Mar. - May or Sept. - Dec.   We have further to drive so Jan. is highly unlikely.
> 
> ...



I understand, but for me it works.  Love HH in Jan, Feb.  We live 2.5 hrs away so a drive over is nothing.  Those nights are 75 pts weeknights, again good for us. We take first appointment only, 8 am, then go for breakfast----no change of clothes involved. "90 min update" is 90 or less for us, usually less. 

There are dozens of owners who come down and string together several weeks in Jan, Feb, Mar, so these point values work well to gain those extra nights.  When they utilize "update" gift points, there's no cash spent for rental of points, so 90 min is just fine, nothing lost, & a lot gained. 

Some people like the idea of spending zero cash when they have have that opportunity. 

I do agree that the point rental is a good thing when you only want 225 or 250----very nice return spending $125 for 250 points, which then gets 3 nights. ($125 for 3 nights at GO, wow.)  

Sorry it doesn't work for everybody, and I understand why, but now you see how it can also be fantastic for others.  We know 4 or 5 couples who thrive on these deals----- they stay from Jan (even Dec) through early March, and any nights gained cheaply through tours can surely add up. The folks we've been to dinner with during these visits have a grin from ear to ear---- they just love being there, when back home (for them) everyone is snowbound. 

The game of utilizing points and tripling or quadrupling the time of off-season vacations is very gratifying, especially when time in a warmer climate is golden.


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## nakyak (Mar 31, 2015)

I learned that if a salesperson has to fear monger such as appears to be the case in this presentation then it's not really a product worth having.

Marriott has really jumped the shark with training their salespersons to fear monger during these presentations in order to get their prospects to purchase points.

I also LOL all the time at how they are not supposed to sell anything lower than 1500 points but then time and time again they compromise their integrity by selling 1,000 point packages.


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## Quilter (Mar 31, 2015)

jme said:


> I understand, but for me it works.  Love HH in Jan, Feb.  We live 2.5 hrs away so a drive over is nothing.  Those nights are 75 pts weeknights, again good for us. We take first appointment only, 8 am, then go for breakfast----no change of clothes involved. "90 min update" is 90 or less for us, usually less.



At 8 a.m. if the dress is something besides bathrobe and slippers I'm like to be underdressed.   Would you please Youtube your next session?   It would be interesting (of course, when I'm in bathrobe and slippers sipping my own favorite tea in the comfort of the porch or sunroom with the cat for company).  



jme said:


> Some people like the idea of spending zero cash when they have have that opportunity.



Yes, lots of them at the Monday donuts and again at the wine and cheese. 



jme said:


> Sorry it doesn't work for everybody, . . .



No need to be sorry, not attending works just as well for some of us.   We'll enjoy HHI at our own time and on our terms.   Would love to see you there sometime.   I'm sure I'd like your company.


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## Bucky (Apr 1, 2015)

Have never quite understood the mentality of "informed" people that attend presentations/updates for some form of "reimbursement" and then complain about it?

You know going in that there is going to be misinformation given during this presentation/update and yet act appalled it could happen to you!

Where I was raised we called these types "mooches". Kind of like the people that swarm to the managers wine and cheese welcoming and then complain about what brand and quality is being served!

If you are going in for the freebies, which most are, be prepared to sit there and take your lumps. That's just the way it is. We went through one of these in Aruba and after 30 minutes we told them we had no intention of buying. The lady told us the presentation was for one hour and if we left we wouldn't get the gift card promised. So my wife and I sat there and talked to each other for 30 more minutes and got our gift card and thanked them and left. That was when we were fairly new to timeshares. Have never went to another one but to each their own. All I know is that if for some reason we do decide to attend another one I won't sit around and complain about doing it!


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## Quilter (Apr 1, 2015)

bazzap said:


> Perhaps so, but I do believe it is not an unreasonable request for owners to seek updates.



During a sales presentation you can always try asking how to best use what they are selling.   The problem is you may not get as much info as you would on TUG.   They either don't know or they pretend not to know.   It would take too much of their time and energy to discuss or go off topic too far.  

Think about it, what really is new?   The new levels.   How do you get to another level?   More points.   What's the most economical way to do that by getting the deepest discount and most incentives?   Really????   A sales person is going to come right out with that?   Or tell you about puck trick 1, 2, 3, 4. . .?   No, a sales presentation is not going to be a condensed version of every tidbit we fish here for hours to decipher.   

At OP there's a session presented by the sales staff strictly to tell about the points program.   No incentives.   Just attend.

And finally, we have called sales departments to view another property (SurfWatch and Oceana Palms) while staying nearby.   A sales person will gladly take you around.   No incentives.  You can ask them to inform you about new updates while touring the property.   It is always a gamble to see if the person actually knows and can recount an update a Tugger doesn't already know.


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## bazzap (Apr 1, 2015)

Quilter said:


> During a sales presentation you can always try asking how to best use what they are selling.   The problem is you may not get as much info as you would on TUG.   They either don't know or they pretend not to know.   It would take too much of their time and energy to discuss or go off topic too far.
> 
> Think about it, what really is new?   The new levels.   How do you get to another level?   More points.   What's the most economical way to do that by getting the deepest discount and most incentives?   Really????   A sales person is going to come right out with that?   Or tell you about puck trick 1, 2, 3, 4. . .?   No, a sales presentation is not going to be a condensed version of every tidbit we fish here for hours to decipher.
> 
> ...


Yes, without doubt much of the most useful information comes from TUG.
That is not to say though that I do not also get useful information from the presentation/update sessions.
Over the years, agreed more so in the earlier years, I found the sales people (some of whom we got to know very well) friendly and constructive with resort related recommendations, hints and tips on using our weeks, new resorts, getting the best out of Interval, Marriott Rewards Travel Packages...etc - whether we were likely to buy or not.
I know much has changed since those days, but I normally still do come away with some useful information and I do still have questions to ask.
So I will still go to these sessions, although only on occasional trips.
If the only way I can do that is to sit through a 90 minute sales pitch and take their incentive, then so be it but I have no need to buy any more and I will make that clear to avoid undue expectations.


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## Quilter (Apr 1, 2015)

The decision to attend sales presentation is obviously personal.   Sure, I'd like free points.   I've come to the conclusion, though, that the points from a presentation are not free.  Besides being part of the ever-increasing cost per point, they cost me time and, most importantly, the possibility of subjecting both DH and me to an uncomfortable experience.  It's my own personal opinion.   I'm comfortable with it and not trying to persuade anyone.  

We've only had one Marriott salesman that we've followed through with the purchases.   We became friends.   In our opinion he was knowledgeable, considerate and ethical.    Steered us away from some properties and even tried to deter me from a purchase.   From the beginning he guided us to buy oceanside instead of oceanfront at OP so we would have more inventory for hard to get school vacations.    Now that we're not planning on any more presentations I guess if I wanted to ask sales department questions I would just call him.   

Most likely I will just keep coming to TUG because I don't believe there is anything a sales person would or could answer that can't be asked here.


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## bazzap (Apr 2, 2015)

I agree Quilter, that is very understandable and I would be inclined to do exactly the same thing.
I just wish at least one of the few sales people I had got to know and trust over the years was still with MVC and I would be very happy phoning or emailing them with any queries as I used to do.


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## amanda14 (Apr 2, 2015)

I cant believe we have owned at MGV for almost a decade and then Lakeshore for a few years less than that.

Over those years I can only think of one experience that wasn't pleasant and that was at Grand Chateau where the rep said like 19 times - "you will by more points today".  My response at the end was, I will not be buying them with you.

So overall, good experiences in the presentations.  Still debating whether to do Lakeshore next week.  And not because of uncomfortable moments, but because I have no intention of purchasing anything and I don' want to waste their time.


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## Fasttr (Apr 2, 2015)

amanda14 said:


> ...where the rep said like 19 times - "you will by more points today".



Did he waive his hand in front of you when he said it?  Sounds like he was trying the Jedi Mind Trick on you.

Sounds like it didn't work.


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## amanda14 (Apr 2, 2015)

I'm in sales and have been for quite some time and I was just wasn't into the whole schpiel (sp) of his and he wasn't a rookie.  I suppose he just thought it worked with others so why not us.

I prefer to go into Sales as open and honest as I can. Sometimes people don't like realism but overall I find it works.

Our guy that we bought Lakeshore from is a good guy but my purchase was more out of frustration at MGV and I loved the concept at Lakeshore because of the campus it is on with JW Marriott and the Ritz.  I also enjoy that they haven't built it out more.


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## Quilter (Apr 2, 2015)

Currently sitting in the DC presentation at OP.  This is open to everyone here.  Thought I'd see if there is anything I can add to TUG.   Taking notes.   Got a spot on the sectional with feet up on the ottoman.  Very comfortable.

Editing to add notes from the group presentation.   It was conducted by John Ryan from the Oceana sales office.   These are not notes from the entire presentation.  Only things new to me.

-- when he talked about looking for DC inventory he said the system has a failing that you have to search property by property as opposed to an area.  Bottom line, keep suggesting to Marriott ways to improve the website.  Ask to be able to search by area.   

-- the new levels were rolled out prematurely.   More perks to the levels are still to come.  

--  giving the example of how his own family's needs have changed, he said 2 units at a MVC property are not always sufficiently comfortable when his 3 kids' families gather at the same time.  He said there has been discussion of partnering with a vacation home group.  Inspirato is an example of one of these type groups.  
https://www.inspirato.com

--  he likes to look at statistical updates.  Today he saw that 80% of vacations in the system can be done with 2000 points or less.   He clarified that this can be done utilizing the reduced rates for Sun.-Thurs. 

--  another couple stayed after to ask about MR travel.  Then they mentioned they have not enrolled in DC.  He said the current price for enrolling was $2395 but said he doesn't recommend that.   He suggests buying points and Marriott will pick up the enrollment fee.  Then they left.  This was not new to me but I found it an interesting quick response to enrollment vs. buying points.  (Yes, I understand there is roughly a $10k difference for a minimal purchase of 1000 points).

He tried to keep session to about 45 mins.


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## nakyak (Apr 2, 2015)

Quilter said:


> Currently sitting in the DC presentation at OP.  This is open to everyone here.  Thought I'd see if there is anything I can add to TUG.   Taking notes.   Got a spot on the sectional with feet up on the ottoman.  Very comfortable.
> 
> Editing to add notes from the group presentation.   It was conducted by John Ryan from the Oceana sales office.   These are not notes from the entire presentation.  Only things new to me.
> 
> ...



They are sending out the heavy hitters for these.  Can't recall if Mr Ryan is their Director of Sales or a long time sales manager.


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