# Losing Weight



## bogey21 (Apr 25, 2014)

A little over 3 months ago I gave up ice cream, alcohol and French fries and lost a little over 20 pounds (roughly from 195 to 175).  Daily it was about a pint of ice cream, a pint of Canadian Club and a couple of orders of fries.  It totally amazed me.

George


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## #1 Cowboys Fan (Apr 25, 2014)

well done!


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## dioxide45 (Apr 25, 2014)

Great, congratulations. That is a lot of calories. A pint of ice cream is four servings per most ice cream containers. At 150 calories each, that is 600 calories in a day. Add the fries and an Canadian Club and you removed over 1000 calories from your daily diet.


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## Passepartout (Apr 25, 2014)

Jeez, If I gave up alcohol, ice cream, and fried foods, I might live longer, but WHY! There's nothing left that's worth living for. 

Congrats.... I guess!?!?!

Jim


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## VegasBella (Apr 25, 2014)

Congrats! Sounds like your previous diet was very unhealthy. Good job on making changes!



Passepartout said:


> Jeez, If I gave up alcohol, ice cream, and fried foods, I might live longer, but WHY! There's nothing left that's worth living for.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Dying from preventable heart disease, diabetes, or cancer (partially caused by a poor diet) is likely a painful way to go. Even you don't want to live longer, maybe you'd rather not suffer in your last moments.


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## MuranoJo (Apr 26, 2014)

VegasBella said:


> Congrats! Sounds like your previous diet was very unhealthy. Good job on making changes!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



What a spoil-sport.  :hysterical:


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## mav (Apr 26, 2014)

Passepartout said:


> Jeez, If I gave up alcohol, ice cream, and fried foods, I might live longer, but WHY! There's nothing left that's worth living for.
> 
> Congrats.... I guess!?!?!
> 
> Jim



  TOO FUNNY! :hysterical:     

       But, congrats... that takes a lot of will power.


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## dioxide45 (Apr 26, 2014)

Passepartout said:


> Jeez, If I gave up alcohol, ice cream, and fried foods, I might live longer, but WHY! There's nothing left that's worth living for.
> 
> Congrats.... I guess!?!?!
> 
> Jim



There is no reason you still can't enjoy those things, in moderation. I don't think a pint of ice cream, a pint of CC and several orders of fries a day is moderation. How about some ice cream once a week and a drink a day instead of several? All about moderation.


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## VegasBella (Apr 26, 2014)

dioxide45 said:


> There is no reason you still can't enjoy those things, in moderation. I don't think a pint of ice cream, a pint of CC and several orders of fries a day is moderation. How about some ice cream once a week and a drink a day instead of several? All about moderation.




It's very likely the OP has a personality type that is so prone to binging that the healthier option is to simply abstain from those foods. Some people can drink alcohol in moderation. Some other people cannot.

"All in moderation" is only for people who are not alcoholics or binge-eaters. 


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## bogey21 (Apr 26, 2014)

bogey21 said:


> A little over 3 months ago I gave up ice cream, alcohol and French fries and lost a little over 20 pounds (roughly from 195 to 175).  Daily it was about a pint of ice cream, a pint of Canadian Club and a couple of orders of fries.  It totally amazed me.
> 
> George



FWIW you would think I would be tempted to cheat a little on the items I gave up.  In actuality I no longer have any desire for the above.  Every now and then I will drink half of a Miller Light.  That's it.

George


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## theo (Apr 26, 2014)

bogey21 said:


> Every now and then I will drink half of a Miller Light.



George, I must tip my cap that you could possibly stand more than even a single, small sip of that particular "beer wannabe". 
When you drink only "half", I hope that the other half is either going down the drain or is being used to steam hot dogs.


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## Fern Modena (Apr 26, 2014)

Why in heaven's name would you infer that the OP (bogey21) was an alcoholic? Do you know him?  If not, I think it was a very judgmental statement for you to make.

But then, what do I know?  Perhaps you do know something about him I don't.

Fern



VegasBella said:


> It's very likely the OP has a personality type that is so prone to binging that the healthier option is to simply abstain from those foods. Some people can drink alcohol in moderation. Some other people cannot.
> 
> "All in moderation" is only for people who are not alcoholics or binge-eaters.
> 
> ...


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## Blues (Apr 26, 2014)

dioxide45 said:


> I don't think a pint of ice cream, a pint of CC and several orders of fries a day is moderation.



Reminds me of my first job out of college.  I was a fresh-faced 22 year old, sharing a 2-person office with a 40-something engineer named Joe, who showed me the ropes.  We became good friends.

One day, Joe came back from a visit to the doctor, and said "Bob, my doctor thinks I drink too much.  Do you think I drink too much?".  "I don't know, Joe" I said.  "How much do you drink?"  He told me, "I go home from work every day, have a Scotch, then have a glass of wine with dinner, and then another Scotch after dinner."  I said, "Well, if you do that every night, it sounds like a bit much, but it's not excessive."

A couple of months later, Joe and his wife invited me over for dinner.  "Want a Scotch?", Joe asked.  I declined, so he poured himself one.  He took out a regular-sized (12 oz) water glass, poured 8-10 ounces of Scotch into it, and added a couple of ice cubes.  It was then that a light went off in my head.  Oh.

-Bob


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## bogey21 (Apr 26, 2014)

In truth I don't think I had a drinking problem.  Absolutely no craving or need  for alcohol from the day after I quit until the present.  Zero, nada, none at all.  Just a habit.

George


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## ricoba (Apr 26, 2014)

Blues said:


> Reminds me of my first job out of college.  I was a fresh-faced 22 year old, sharing a 2-person office with a 40-something engineer named Joe, who showed me the ropes.  We became good friends.
> 
> One day, Joe came back from a visit to the doctor, and said "Bob, my doctor thinks I drink too much.  Do you think I drink too much?".  "I don't know, Joe" I said.  "How much do you drink?"  He told me, "I go home from work every day, have a Scotch, then have a glass of wine with dinner, and then another Scotch after dinner."  I said, "Well, if you do that every night, it sounds like a bit much, but it's not excessive."
> 
> ...



Good story, but kind of sad too isn't it?  I've known lots of people over the years just like "Joe" who fool themselves about their drinking behavior.  Sadly, I think I have a relative who is the current "Joe" I know.  

Do you know what happened to the guy?


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## Icc5 (Apr 26, 2014)

*Ice cream*

And I thought the ice cream would be the most missed since I feel I've always been an ice cream aholic.  The stories I could tell.   My drink of choice has always been a milk shake.
Bart


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## Gophesjo (Apr 26, 2014)

Congrats Bogey!


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## Blues (Apr 26, 2014)

ricoba said:


> Do you know what happened to the guy?



Nope.  I left that job a couple of years later, and lost touch with all my co-workers from there.  I've often wondered, though.

-Bob


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## ronparise (Apr 26, 2014)

Fern Modena said:


> Why in heaven's name would you infer that the OP (bogey21) was an alcoholic? Do you know him?  If not, I think it was a very judgmental statement for you to make.
> 
> But then, what do I know?  Perhaps you do know something about him I don't.
> 
> Fern



Pint a day 

I'd make the same assumption. But I don't know the definition. 

When it was me eating and drinking like that calling me an alcoholic was what the nice people called me rather than the more accurate fat assed drunk

Recently I went from 220 to 200 at the rate of one pound a week. I cut 250 calories a day out of my diet and burned 250 calories a day at the gym.  That's a difference of 3500 calories a week or a pound of fat. Another 6 months to 180


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## pjrose (Apr 26, 2014)

*Giving up sugar?*

Good job - congratulations!

I'm somewhere between thinking about and planning to give up white sugar.  I know a few people who did that and nothing else and lost around 35 lbs in 3-4 months.  Apparently it is very hard for the first 5 days or week, but after that it's not.  

What I don't know is whether IF I do this, I need to go cold turkey, or can taper off, and whether I also should read all the labels and not eat anything with sugar in it (most prepared foods) or only the obvious culprits that have lots of sugar.  

I also don't get why white sugar vs brown sugar, fructose, corn syrup, and all the other sweeteners.  Giving up ALL sources of sugar other than natural fruits would likely be extremely healthy but very difficult.

And then there'd be the issue of keeping it up - would a cookie here and there bring the sugar addiction back again?   

At least I don't have to worry about ice cream or alcohol or fried foods - the freezer is too full for ice cream, I am actually allergic to alcohol, and I don't like fried anything.  Sweet tea and cookies and chocolate, on the other hand......


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## pjrose (Apr 26, 2014)

ronparise said:


> Pint a day
> 
> . . .
> 
> Recently I went from 220 to 200 at the rate of one pound a week. I cut 250 calories a day out of my diet and burned 250 calories a day at the gym.  That's a difference of 3500 calories a week or a pound of fat. Another 6 months to 180



Good for you!  When you get there will you put up a new photo?


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## b2bailey (Apr 26, 2014)

pjrose said:


> Good job - congratulations!
> 
> I'm somewhere between thinking about and planning to give up white sugar.  I know a few people who did that and nothing else and lost around 35 lbs in 3-4 months.  Apparently it is very hard for the first 5 days or week, but after that it's not.
> 
> ...


In regard to giving up sugar...
Awhile back I was told I was 'pre-diabetic' and decided to make the move to eliminate white sugar products. Did it cold turkey for a year. I was disappointed and surprised that I did not lose any weight. After awhile it dawned on me that I had been very inactive that year, adjusting to the heat of Florida. My final conclusion was that it was a good thing I had given up the sugar -- or I might have gained 30 pounds that year. I went back to eating sugar 'in moderation' -- but I am now considering eliminating high fructose corn syrup from my diet.


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## taffy19 (Apr 27, 2014)

Congratulations to the OP and ronparise. Here is an interesting web page to read and most people may not realize it.

http://aspartame.mercola.com/

A friend of ours signed up with Lindora and he lost a lot of weight and has kept it off for many years already. It is a change in eating habits that you will have to want to make seriously plus exercising too but walking a mile or two every day is all you need to do. Walk your dog and your dog will love you for it.

I know another friend who lost a lot of weight but he stopped eating junk food and is buying organic food and grass-fed beef and avoids buying anything in a package today. The more ingredients there are in a package, the more junk food it is.

We try but it is hard to do when you are on vacation but we are not fanatics about dieting or depriving ourselves. You only live once.

Another eye opener website is here that may give you good information how to stay healthy when the store shelves are full of fast or junk food.


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## MuranoJo (Apr 27, 2014)

I'm currently on a restricted carb diet--and I have pretty much eliminated sugar (as well as processed foods, 'white' foods such as pasta, bread, potatoes, etc.--cauliflower is ok of course), and my carbs are predominantly veggies.

However, being sugar free doesn't necessarily mean you can't have sweets.  For instance, today I baked a coconut layer cake for my sister's birthday and it was made with coconut flour and xylitol, probably the safest of the sugar substitutes (so I've read).  Turned out great.

Sis has lost ~70 lbs. in 10 months on a similar diet.

BTW, congrats to Bogey!


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## bogey21 (Apr 27, 2014)

pjrose said:


> What I don't know is whether IF I do this, I need to go cold turkey, or can taper off, and whether I also should read all the labels and not eat anything with sugar in it (most prepared foods) or only the obvious culprits that have lots of sugar.



I went cold turkey.  Just stopped.  I read somewhere that this is what George Bush did many years ago when he dumped alcohol.  I figured if it could work for him, it could work for me.

George


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## Passepartout (Apr 27, 2014)

bogey21 said:


> I went cold turkey.  Just stopped.  I read somewhere that this is what George Bush did many years ago when he dumped alcohol.  I figured if it could work for him, it could work for me.
> 
> George



That's how I stopped smoking 23 years ago. Cold turkey. Hope it was soon enough.


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## ronparise (Apr 27, 2014)

iconnections said:


> Congratulations to the OP and ronparise. Here is an interesting web page to read and most people may not realize it.
> 
> http://aspartame.mercola.com/
> 
> ...



George

I didnt mean to hyjack your thread or divert any of the credit that should go to you, my way.

All I was trying to say is that when you cut  the roughly 1500 calories a day (booze and icecream) not to mention the fries....something is bound to happen around your weight. Im not surprised it did


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## ondeadlin (Apr 27, 2014)

Great job!

I have a somewhat depressing running dialogue with a colleague about weight loss.  She's constantly searching for the magic diet that will cause her to lose weight and never seems to find it.  The juice cleanse diet seemed particularly painful.  I'm of the position that it really doesn't matter what you eat, as long as limit your calories and exercise more.  I've lost about 15 pounds since January on that plan.  No diet, just less beer, almost no dessert or between-meals snacks, and a careful focus on portion size.  Plus a lot more exercise (well … pretty much none to some …  )


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## vacationhopeful (Apr 27, 2014)

pjrose said:


> Good for you!  When you get there will you put up a new photo?



What a NEW PHOTO of Ron? That will show the side effects of his diet - as he lost his hair and has no happy grin!!!

Just kidding, Ron. Congraduations!


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## Luanne (Apr 27, 2014)

ondeadlin said:


> I'm of the position that it really doesn't matter what you eat, as long as limit your calories and exercise more.



I also firmly believe you don't want to do anything to lose weight that you're not planning on doing to keep it off.

Lost 60 pounds in 2002 and have kept it off since then.


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## laurac260 (Apr 27, 2014)

We are in the midst of switching to a Paleo diet.  We have started pretty severely, by eliminating all sugar, breads, grains, cereals, rice, pasta...eating LOTS of greens and vegetables, and almost no fruit, except for berries and granny smith apples (low glycemic, high anti-oxidant).

Parts have been easy, parts hard, as in any big change.  We are consuming some dairy, mainly whole milk, butter, and whole fat yogurt.  This part has been easy, I switched us off skim about a year ago and went toward 2%, and now we are consuming only whole, non-homogenized milk.  I must admit I had no idea how much sweeter whole fat, plain greek yogurt tasted then the zero fat version.

We get our chicken, eggs, milk and beef from local farmers, free range, grass fed, etc etc.  We've been doing that for years, so that part was also a no brainer.  

It's been 6 days so far.  I still crave chocolate after dinner, though I realize it isn't the chocolate I have been craving, I can eat all the chocolate I want,  or the butter in the chocolate, I can eat that too in moderation, it's again the sugar.  Chocolate by itself is good for you, but of course it's bitter alone.  Stevia and Xylitol are the only "acceptable" sweeteners, still Stevia gives me dull headaches, and Xylitol gives me gas and bloating.  I've given up on Stevia, and only do the xylitol when I am "desperate" for sweetness, such as in the pan of brownies in the oven right now.   Otherwise it's berries when the craving hits.  

I am really enjoying my full fat lattes, with simply milk and coffee, no sugar, no coffee syrup, no flavored creamers.  

I've lost 2 lbs so far, but I've already GAINED in that I immediately noticed a loss of fatigue.  That and my joints aren't swollen when I wake up every morning.  This is a huge plus.  

It will take some time to move my kids in this direction.  Our household has gotten a little lax this past year, and bagged snacks have found their way into the house (and lots of sugary stuff too), …  (where's the unlike button?)

Anyway, hats off to the OP.  I wish my mom had learned to conquer her "demons" before they conquered her.


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## Passepartout (Apr 27, 2014)

We've been doing the 5-2 fast diet for a couple of years now. http://thefastdiet.co.uk/ It is not a quick solution, but it's something one can really live with long term. I have dropped 15 or so lbs and DW has left almost 20 behind. We 'fast' on Mondays and Thursdays. I get 600 calories and she gets 500. It has increased our cooking creativity. Low cal soups, seafood dishes, veggie omelettes with egg whites, huge salads with just balsamic vinaigrette and grilled or baked fish. Eat 'normally' on the other 5 days. No restrictions on what you can eat. It works for us, but ymmv.

Jim


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## davidvel (Apr 27, 2014)

bogey21 said:


> I went cold turkey.  Just stopped.  I read somewhere that this is what George Bush did many years ago when he dumped alcohol.  I figured if it could work for him, it could work for me.
> 
> George



That is amazing. Going from 10+ shots of whisky a day to 6oz of lite beer is incredible. Many people would suffer from serious complications of withdrawal.


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## SMHarman (Apr 27, 2014)

ondeadlin said:


> Great job!
> 
> I have a somewhat depressing running dialogue with a colleague about weight loss.  She's constantly searching for the magic diet that will cause her to lose weight and never seems to find it.  The juice cleanse diet seemed particularly painful.  I'm of the position that it really doesn't matter what you eat, as long as limit your calories and exercise more.  I've lost about 15 pounds since January on that plan.  No diet, just less beer, almost no dessert or between-meals snacks, and a careful focus on portion size.  Plus a lot more exercise (well … pretty much none to some …  )



Fat does not make you fat. Sugar makes you fat. Low fat is high sugar or some sweetener to replace the fat  flavor. 

Your no desert and less beer cut a lot of sugar from your diet. 

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## ondeadlin (Apr 27, 2014)

SMHarman said:


> Fat does not make you fat. Sugar makes you fat. Low fat is high sugar or some sweetener to replace the fat  flavor.
> 
> Your no desert and less beer cut a lot of sugar from your diet.



I don't know why this was aimed at me, because I certainly didn't say fat makes one fat.  Calories make you fat, doesn't matter where they come from.  It's a fair point that a lot of the calories I cut out came from sugar, but a lot of calories that come from a pint of ice cream a day are also from fat.

Fat and sugar both cause other problems, of course … but in the end, it's all about calories.  If you cut 1,000 calories from your diet daily, no matter what type of calories you're cutting, you're going to lose weight.


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## Rose Pink (Apr 27, 2014)

bogey21 said:


> A little over 3 months ago I gave up ice cream, alcohol and French fries and lost a little over 20 pounds (roughly from 195 to 175).  Daily it was about a pint of ice cream, a pint of Canadian Club and a couple of orders of fries.  It totally amazed me.
> 
> George



Congratulations, George.  Lifestyle changes can be enormously difficult for many people.  I am happy to read it is going so well for you and wish you continued success.


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## isisdave (Apr 27, 2014)

Passepartout said:


> Jeez, If I gave up alcohol, ice cream, and fried foods, I might live longer, but WHY! There's nothing left that's worth living for.
> 
> Congrats.... I guess!?!?!
> 
> Jim



They say it just _seems _longer.


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## SMHarman (Apr 28, 2014)

ondeadlin said:


> I don't know why this was aimed at me, because I certainly didn't say fat makes one fat.  Calories make you fat, doesn't matter where they come from.  It's a fair point that a lot of the calories I cut out came from sugar, but a lot of calories that come from a pint of ice cream a day are also from fat.
> 
> Fat and sugar both cause other problems, of course … but in the end, it's all about calories.  If you cut 1,000 calories from your diet daily, no matter what type of calories you're cutting, you're going to lose weight.



I quotes you but am on mobile and really meant to cover more than you. 

There has been a lot of study in the last few years to indicate that a calorie is not a calorie is not a calorie and there is good and bad fuel. 

We should all be able to agree that 2000 calories a day of candy is not the same as a balanced 2000 calories of veg, dairy and meat etc. 

More tomorrow from a screen and keyboard. 

Sent from my LT26i using Tapatalk


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## laurac260 (Apr 28, 2014)

SMHarman said:


> There has been a lot of study in the last few years to indicate that a calorie is not a calorie is not a calorie and there is good and bad fuel.
> 
> We should all be able to agree that 2000 calories a day of candy is not the same as a balanced 2000 calories of veg, dairy and meat etc.



+1

We have been brainwashed to believe that the "problem" is that we are all overweight, and if we just "lose weight" than the problem goes away.  Being overweight is a _byproduct_ of eating poorly.  

Counting calories and watching the scale is not the magic answer.  I am done with it.   It has not served me well in the long term.


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## ondeadlin (Apr 28, 2014)

A calorie is not a calorie from a health perspective. So a 2,000 calorie diet of just candy or just red meat would, as we all know, have some obvious negative consequences.

But a calorie is a calorie from a weight perspective.

As science has repeatedly shown:



> Here’s what is true, she said: “The studies that have measured calorie intake, that have put people on calorie-reduced diets and measured what happened, show no difference in weight loss based on composition of the diet.” When people are essentially incarcerated, when all intake is weighed and measured, they will lose weight if the calories in their diets are reduced — regardless of the composition of the diet.



http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/03/20/is-a-calorie-a-calorie/?_php=true&_type=blogs&_r=0#

http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/79/5/899S.full


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## SMHarman (Apr 28, 2014)

ondeadlin said:


> A calorie is not a calorie from a health perspective. So a 2,000 calorie diet of just candy or just red meat would, as we all know, have some obvious negative consequences.
> 
> But a calorie is a calorie from a weight perspective.
> 
> ...





			
				Your NYT Article from Bitman said:
			
		

> The “calorie is a calorie” argument is widely used by the processed food industry to explain that weight loss isn’t really about what you eat but about how many calories you eat. But if it were just about calories, you could eat only sugar and be fine. In fact, you’d die: sugar lacks essential nutrients.





			
				Your NYT Article from Bitman said:
			
		

> An important question, then, is really something like, “What can I eat to keep from putting on weight?” and here the answer turns out to be not only easy but also expected. “If you’re eating a lot of fruits and vegetables,” Nestle says, “you’re not taking in as many calories as you would if you were eating fast food and sodas.” Yes, that’s a calorie issue; the latter group is way higher in calories than the former. But though there’s a difference between eat less and eating better, “eating better makes it much easier to eat less.”



Mrs SMHarman studied under Marion so I am well versed in her stances.  She will also Marion will also defend HFCS as being chemically identical to sugar so not the problem.  Again the problem is too much sugar.

But taking all the points in the Bitman article she will then go back to fixing the farm bill to make corn more expensive so we are not creatign an excess to then turn into HFCS being part of the solution.

You will not feel satiated eating 10 candy bars a day, so maintaining a 2000 calorie a day diet of 10 candy bars will be tough.  The lack of fibre and protein for your stomach to digest will mean you feel hungry quickly and get sugar spikes each time you eat one.

Is your point that I am wrong or that I wrote an answer that was not full, detailed, complete and peer reviewed?



			
				Marion Nestle said:
			
		

> We need a farm bill that’s designed from top to bottom to support healthier diets, one that supports growing fruits and vegetables and making them cheaper. We need to fix school lunches so they’re based on fresh foods, and fix food assistance programs so people have greater access to healthier foods.


And I will stop there for fear of this getting political.


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## geekette (Apr 28, 2014)

Blues said:


> Nope.  I left that job a couple of years later, and lost touch with all my co-workers from there.  I've often wondered, though.
> 
> -Bob



hopefully  having once asked "do you think I am an alcoholic" he maybe asked again and figured out that "I might have a problem..."

When I don't know the outcome, I like to think that someone overcame their challenges.


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## laurac260 (Apr 28, 2014)

SMHarman said:


> You will not feel satiated eating 10 candy bars a day, so maintaining a 2000 calorie a day diet of 10 candy bars will be tough.  The lack of fibre and protein for your stomach to digest will mean you feel hungry quickly and get sugar spikes each time you eat one.



I am on day 8 of a NO sugar diet. No sugar, no bread, no pasta, grains, rice, alcohol, corn…..

I am expecting to lose weight, and already have.  What I was not expecting, was today when I was at my workout class…  I wasn't sure if I had enough energy to complete the workout.  I have given up so many forms of carbs, and as the FDA food pyramid tells us, you are supposed to make grains the main part of your diet (something I have not agreed with in years).  

I have to say, not only did I have enough energy, I felt much stronger as well.  This is no small statement, I have not been a regular exerciser for several weeks.  The other, more significant thing I noticed… I had NO spikes in blood sugar, no feeling like I was going to black out.    The docs tell me I am borderline hypotensive, and borderline hypoglycemic.   

Cutting sugar from my diet…hmmm… I've conditioned myself to going for something sugary (even fruit juice) when I feel lightheaded.


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## Bourne (Apr 28, 2014)

ronparise said:


> Pint a day
> 
> I'd make the same assumption. But I don't know the definition.
> 
> ...



Congrats.. used the same logic to lose weight years back. 

On a different note, you can "fool" the body up to a minimum of 1200 cal per day intake. At that rate, it considers intake as normal and uses body fat to compensate. Go lower than thatand it turns counterintutuve.


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## ondeadlin (Jun 9, 2014)

An excellent piece in The Atlantic taking the organic/natural foods media and "gurus" to task for taking a nuanced, complex and currently unclear issue and turning it into the current "Sugar is Toxic" scare:

http://www.theatlantic.com/features/archive/2014/06/being-happy-with-sugar/372220/


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## pjrose (Jun 9, 2014)

ondeadlin said:


> An excellent piece in The Atlantic taking the organic/natural foods media and "gurus" to task for taking a nuanced, complex and currently unclear issue and turning it into the current "Sugar is Toxic" scare:
> 
> http://www.theatlantic.com/features/archive/2014/06/being-happy-with-sugar/372220/



Interesting.  Regarding losing weight, my father in law has an easy suggestion: "eat half".  

The article barely mentions the artificial stuff that is in much - if not most - sugar-sweetened food.  The dyes, preservatives, unpronounceable stuff, etc.  

Absent research to quote but with a dose of common sense, I am more concerned about that unpronounceable stuff as well as food that can't be whipped up in one's own kitchen.  I do eat processed foods, but I suspect the assorted additives are likely worse than sugar.   

We just found two old bread products in the back of the pantry - green fuzzy bagels or english muffins - couldn't tell - and a loaf of "white whole wheat" bread dated early April, two+ months ago.  The bread looked fine.  DH said maybe we should get that kind again since it lasts longer.  Nope, I don't even want to think what preservatives are in there that made it last longer :roll eyes:


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## Rose Pink (Jun 9, 2014)

ondeadlin said:


> An excellent piece in The Atlantic taking the organic/natural foods media and "gurus" to task for taking a nuanced, complex and currently unclear issue and turning it into the current "Sugar is Toxic" scare:
> 
> http://www.theatlantic.com/features/archive/2014/06/being-happy-with-sugar/372220/



Thank you for posting that.  It was well said.  

I cringe whenever I hear "a calorie is not a calorie."  That is just silly--and I tend to dismiss any "authority" who states that silliness.  

When speaking of the calories in food, we are taking Kilocalories or the amount of energy required to raise one kilogram of water one degree Celsius.  Hence, by definition, a calorie is always a calorie. A calorie is merely a means of measuring energy.  It is a measurement, nothing more, nothing less.  It doesn't "contain" any nutrients.  It doesn't "contain" anything.  It only measures energy.  It is not a "thing."

The things we eat or drink that can be measured in caloric units are carbohydrates, fats, protein and alcohol.  What is in question is whether the bomb calorimetry results accurately measure how those foods are used in the human body.  Does the human body extract the same amount of energy from a given weight of  whatever as does a bomb calorimeter?  It's likely the answer varies from one person to another based on DNA and other factors.

The author points out how ideas tend to trend.  We had the low carb thing back in the 60s or 70s.  Then we had the low fat thing in the 80s and 90s.  Now we are back to the low carb thing again.  I agree with the author that looking solely at the energy producing nutrients does not give the larger picture.  

But nutrition is like religion and politics. People tend to find something they like and swear by it, dismissing any evidence to the contrary.  Especially if those people have a financial interest--ie doctors who write diet books.


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## glypnirsgirl (Jul 6, 2014)

I have been off for a while and found this thread while trying to catch up.

About 18 months ago, trying to disprove my father wrong when he said that sugar turns straight into fat, I found a YouTube video of a nutrition lecture at one of the California medical schools by a Robert C. Lustig. The video was compelling. I cold-turkeyed ALL sugar except that occurring naturally in fruits and vegetables. I lost 50 pounds in about 6 months. 

I stayed off sugar, but stopped losing weight. I went into see my doctor (who was really happy with my weight loss) and told him what I had done to lose the weight, but that I had stopped losing weight. He suggested that I start counting calories and suggested that I use a phone app called myfitnesspal --- I have been logging all of my food ever since. I have lost another 30 pounds since starting with counting calories. 

So, sure a calorie is a calorie. But our body is very complex and we react differently to the different chemical make-ups of the food that we eat.


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## laurac260 (Jul 6, 2014)

Rose Pink said:


> Thank you for posting that.  It was well said.
> 
> I cringe whenever I hear "a calorie is not a calorie."  That is just silly--and I tend to dismiss any "authority" who states that silliness.
> 
> ...



Thank you for your post.  Yes, when talking strictly in terms of chemistry, a calorie IS a calorie, but it does matter immensely what our bodies do with those calories.

As far as being back to the "low carb thing", I don't think that is the trend.  With the latest Paleo "diet", you do still eat carbs.   It's being more selective in the type of carbs you eat.   The low carb diet of the past was the Atkins Diet.  That was a disaster from the get go.  And I cringe at the notion that Paleo is a a "diet".  Granted, the real definition of diet is the "foods that we eat", so everyone is on a diet of some sort.   Unfortunately the word diet has come to mean "weight loss".  I don't look at Paleo as a method of weight loss as much as a method to eat and live healthfully.   It works for me.  It keeps my blood sugar from spiking and crashing.  And taking out the 3,000 approved additives and preservatives from my diet as much as humanly possible can only be a win/win.

The best thing I have read since of late in regard to eating is:  "Medicine isn't healthcare.  Medicine is sick care.  Food is healthcare."  If you live with that mantra in mind, you can only benefit yourself in the long run.


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## Fin's (Jul 6, 2014)

*Not today*

Now why did I have to read this, TODAY! Crawfish boil @ 4. Man I love those sausages! I think I'll try that "half a beer thing." Half of 12 will make me feel better about myself.. Just my sick humor (Ha). I won't think about this post anymore till TOMMORRA!  I'm also thinkin this site is addictive.. I need to be in the garden before the sun barrels down on me. YET here I sit. ;-)


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## vacationdoc (Jul 6, 2014)

*Fat Chance Cookbook*



glypnirsgirl said:


> I have been off for a while and found this thread while trying to catch up.
> 
> About 18 months ago, trying to disprove my father wrong when he said that sugar turns straight into fat, I found a YouTube video of a nutrition lecture at one of the California medical schools by a Robert C. Lustig. The video was compelling. I cold-turkeyed ALL sugar except that occurring naturally in fruits and vegetables. I lost 50 pounds in about 6 months.
> 
> ...



Lustig's Fat Chance Cookbook has healthy recipes that actually taste good and  are easy to cook.  Eating is like owning a timeshare in that "one size does not fit all." Everyone has to find what works for them.  Congrats to the OP for finding the best solution for his situation.


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## bogey21 (Jul 6, 2014)

bogey21 said:


> A little over 3 months ago I gave up ice cream, alcohol and French fries and lost a little over 20 pounds (roughly from 195 to 175).  Daily it was about a pint of ice cream, a pint of Canadian Club and a couple of orders of fries.  It totally amazed me.



It is now about 2 1/2 months since my original post.  My weight is now 170.  In addition I have always had a heart rhythm issue and periodically take stress tests.  I took one about two weeks ago and my cardiologist said it was my best ever.  Just a layman's opinion but I'm thinking less weight makes my heart work less.

George


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## ace2000 (Jul 6, 2014)

bogey21 said:


> It is now about 2 1/2 months since my original post.  My weight is now 170.  In addition I have always had a heart rhythm issue and periodically take stress tests.  I took one about two weeks ago and my cardiologist said it was my best ever.  Just a layman's opinion but I'm thinking less weight makes my heart work less.
> 
> George



Keep it up George.  A couple of years ago I lost about 30 pounds and starting working out on a daily basis.  I've kept the weight off and I've been off my blood pressure meds ever since - I'm currently 52 years old.  I think the key is exercise and of course continuing to make smart choices on diet - for me it was fiber and vegetables.


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## bogey21 (Jul 6, 2014)

You just reminded me.  I was on 100MG Metoprolol daily.  Cardiologist just cut me back to 50MG with no adverse effect on my daily readings.

George

PS  I'm 79 going on 80 years old


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## laurac260 (Jul 6, 2014)

bogey21 said:


> You just reminded me.  I was on 100MG Metoprolol daily.  Cardiologist just cut me back to 50MG with no adverse effect on my daily readings.
> 
> George
> 
> PS  I'm 79 going on 80 years old


Good for you!  Medicine isn't healthcare.  Medicine is sick care.  FOOD is healthcare.


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## laurac260 (Jul 6, 2014)

bogey21 said:


> It is now about 2 1/2 months since my original post.  My weight is now 170.  In addition I have always had a heart rhythm issue and periodically take stress tests.  I took one about two weeks ago and my cardiologist said it was my best ever.  Just a layman's opinion but I'm thinking less weight makes my heart work less.
> 
> George



My dad is one of 7 kids.  He will be 80 next year and he is the last one left.  He smoked forever (quit about eight years ago), and has never been a heart healthy eater.   What is his secret?  I don't know for sure but We're guessing his amputation of his right leg above the knee, due to an accident at the age of 28.  We figure his heart hasn't had to work as hard due to this.  Certainly not a weight loss option I recommend, though!


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## Sandy VDH (Jul 6, 2014)

Finally got over my 10 year long problem with Plantar Fasciitis, and got my auto-immune issues controlled by something other than prednisone.  

It is hard to work out while in pain, and prednisone does no one any favors if you are trying to lose weight.

I am down over 90 lbs so far.  Paleo Diet and Exercise.  It is hard to get started, but once you are going, it is pretty easy diet to follow.

I still have 40 more that I would like to be down.


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## susieq (Jul 6, 2014)

CONGRATS to all you weight loss winners!!!! ​


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## JudyS (Jul 6, 2014)

I have found that no matter what diet I use, the weight always comes back. It's not a matter of "going back to my old habits," either. For example, I lost 40 pounds when I became a vegetarian. I stayed a vegetarian (33 years now!), but all the weight came back, plus more. 

Whenever I hear people talk about their weight loss, it is almost always weight they have lost recently. Hardly anyone ever says, "I lost 100 pounds 10 years ago and it still gone." In fact, I don't know a single person who has kept off 50 or more pounds without having bariatric surgery. That is because virtually no one can keep weight off for more than a few years through dieting, no matter what they do.

In my case, it seems  the longer I diet, the lower my metabolism goes, the hungrier I get, the colder I feel, and the less weight I lose. For the past few years I have not been well enough to exercise, but even back when I exercised for over an hour a day, when I dieted I was cold the other 23 hours a day and hungry all the time, despite being in the obese range. 

Low-fat diets, low-carb diets, high-protein diets, low-calorie diets, a vegan diet -- you name them; I've tried them all, and none have worked long-term for me, no matter how carefully I stuck to them.

There is strong evidence that dieting makes it harder to lose weight in the future, and some evidence that in the long run, dieting actually increases body weight and fat percentage. (After all, storing fat is how the body protects against famines, and each time you diet, you are making your body think there's a famine.) I no longer believe in dieting. 

I am now on a wait list for an appointment with the bariatric surgery clinic at my local hospital. I'm not heavy enough to meet the usual guidelines for bariatric surgery (I am 5'3" and weigh 215 pounds) but I do have serious health problems that might improve with weight loss (along with other problems unrelated to weight), so I am hoping my insurance will pay for the surgery.


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## DavidnRobin (Jul 6, 2014)

I do not disagree with some of what Judy has to say about weight gain issues following a 'diet', but becoming a vegetarian doesn't mean wight loss.  It is not about dieting - it is about life-style changes and choices.

Just like TSing - Dieting (or changing ones lifestyle in regards to food) is an individual thing - and there is no 'one size fits all' - and importantly... There is no quick fix or miracle diet tricks (and industry to itself).

For me - I have found tremendous benefit it cutting out diary and gluten, and no more added sugar and/or processed foods.

Since May my fasting blood sugar is <90 (down from 115), and my BP is 115/65 with no BP medication (vs 140/85 with BP medication).  More importantly - I feel so much better - the weight loss (245# down to 225#) is just an added benefit, but no way is this an end - only the beginning.  My cravings for sugar and junk food have almost disappeared.
We used Dr Hyman's Blood Sugar Solution approach - YMMV.


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## Patri (Jul 6, 2014)

Judy, good luck with the bariatric. If you are motivated, it will work for you. I know people who have gained all their weight back after that and it just floors me. I guess they eat past full and feel sick, but think it is worth it. I just wonder how the tiny stomach can stretch to full size again. Makes me worry someday it will just pop open.
Elaine, I know you're here but I can't see you. Oh, you were standing sideways. From the front, you have a slender silhouette. Congrats on your weight loss! A true success story.
And also to everyone else who has done so well in the long haul. That is what really matters.


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## DaveNV (Jul 6, 2014)

Jack LaLanne was a major advocate for exercise and healthy eating. I remember him on a talk show in his later years responding to the questions about his diet and longevity.  His response was to the effect of:

"If man made it, don't eat it. Natural food and grains are all that matters.  When you go to the grocery store, shop the perimeter walls.  That's where the Produce, Dairy, and Meat departments are.  Don't walk up and down the center aisles, because that's where all the processed foods are."  

He died of pneumonia when he was 96 years old.  His comments make sense to me. 

Dave


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## laurac260 (Jul 6, 2014)

BMWguynw said:


> Jack LaLanne was a major advocate for exercise and healthy eating. I remember him on a talk show in his later years responding to the questions about his diet and longevity.  His response was to the effect of:
> 
> "If man made it, don't eat it. Natural food and grains are all that matters.  When you go to the grocery store, shop the perimeter walls.  That's where the Produce, Dairy, and Meat departments are.  Don't walk up and down the center aisles, because that's were all the processed foods are."
> 
> ...



I completely agree.  I'm tired of reading labels.  So I've given it up.  Instead I but food with NO labels whenever possible, and the few that DO have labels say things like "contains cream, salt".  Or "ingredients cocoa" .  The more ingredients the further the "product" is away from being anything nature intended.  You could take this much further of course, and we do, with grass fed, free range, non homogenized etc etc.


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## JulieAB (Jul 7, 2014)

JudyS, you sound like you are "leptin resistant."  I was too and have successfully regained sensitivity. It's amazing the difference in the way my body handles food!  I lost 30 and 15 lbs with homeopathic HCG, then switched to paleo/low carb to maintain.  I can splurge here and there and my body doesn't freak out like it used to.  I'm coming up on a year since loosing my weight.


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## MuranoJo (Jul 7, 2014)

I think all along there's been a misunderstanding about Atkins and believe many of the controlled carb diets of today are based significantly on his--not identical of course, but very similar.  

One of the biggest misconceptions is that Atkins doesn't allow carbs, while even his earliest book suggested good carbs such as veggies, avocados, nuts, and then beans and grains in the later maintenance stages.

I've had great success with a controlled carb diet in the past (no processed foods, avoid most 'white' foods, no sugar).  My sis lost 80 pounds this past year after going to a weight-loss clinic where they recommended a restricted carb diet.  She is looking & feeling great!

Personally, I'm practicing a 'good carb' diet, but this time I'm completely wiping out wheat in all forms...so I'm learning a lot about gluten-free baking.


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## laurac260 (Jul 7, 2014)

JudyS said:


> I have found that no matter what diet I use, the weight always comes back. It's not a matter of "going back to my old habits," either. For example, I lost 40 pounds when I became a vegetarian. I stayed a vegetarian (33 years now!), but all the weight came back, plus more.
> 
> Whenever I hear people talk about their weight loss, it is almost always weight they have lost recently. Hardly anyone ever says, "I lost 100 pounds 10 years ago and it still gone." In fact, I don't know a single person who has kept off 50 or more pounds without having bariatric surgery. That is because virtually no one can keep weight off for more than a few years through dieting, no matter what they do.
> 
> ...



I have been between 150-180 my whole life, not including pregnancies.  I'm 5'7'.  If you throw out the outliers--I have gotten to 150 a couple times but have difficulty maintaining it and still being able to enjoy treats when I want to--I have gotten to 180 a couple times but then I decide enough is enough, and I STOP with the treats… throw out the outliers and I have been between 158-168 my whole adult life (freshman year of HS, on).  That being said, I have "lost" over 200 lbs, 10 lbs lost here, 10 lbs gained here, 20 lbs lost here, 20 lbs gained here, so yes, I get what you are saying.   It isn't ideal, but I refuse to go down to a weight where I have to watch what I eat like I'm pinching pennies during the Great Depression, nor do I refuse to allow myself to get to the point where I have rolls that touch each other, and a size 14 is the only size I can fit into.  Not judging anyone, this is how I operate, for me.   My method for monitoring my weight lately has been, I have thrown my bathroom scale in the trash.  I never owned a bathroom scale before 2000, which is when I was pregnant with child #1, and I've decided that I no longer will allow a number on a little device to dictate anything.  

It seems, in my observation, that folks who have excessive weight to lose 50-100 lbs or more, also have underlying "food issues".  I have a dear friend who's husband is in this boat.  He has way more will power than I have, as there is NO WAY I could maintain an all liquid diet for three months, however, he has food demons that cause him to binge eat at 10pm.  He is a stress eater as well.  So the weight always comes back.  Plus Plus.   So, for folks like him, no amount of will power, no amount of dieting in any form, no amount of "counseling" from his well meaning wife is going to "cure" him of his food issues.


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## JudyS (Jul 7, 2014)

Interestingly, psychologists have searched for decades for emotional causes of severe weight gain, and come up with basically nothing. Sure, some people eat more when they are stressed, but that seems to have little or no relationship with weight. In other words, some people eat more when they are stressed and some people eat less when they are stressed. But the people who eat more when stressed do not, on average, weight any more than people who lose their appetite when stressed. (As it happens, I'm one of those people who completely loses my appetite when I'm stressed.) 

There are also some true binge eaters out there, but again, this seems to have little to do with weight. In other words, there are binge eaters who are fat, binge eaters who are normal weight, and binge eaters who are thin. Some of the most severe binge eating is seen in anorexics. 

Laurac260, the pattern you describe in your friend's husband sounds like "night eating syndrome." Some very fat people are not hungry much at all during the day, but famished at night. This is believed to be physiological, but the cause is not known. 

When people say obesity is caused by "food issues," I always wonder what those people think causes obesity in animals that have been bred to be fat, or have had experimentally-induced brain lesions that cause severe obesity. There are strains of rats and mice that have been bred to be enormously obese (say, three times as heavy as a normal animal), or are obese because lesions have been made in the parts of their brains that regulate energy expenditure and appetite. Do these mice and rats somehow have "emotional problems with food" in their tiny rodent brains? If so, these emotional problems must develop very quickly, because rodents with experimentally-induced brain lesions start eating non-stop as soon as they wake up from surgery.

It's also been known for 14 years that some specially-bred strains of mice eat much more than other mice, yet weight much less. The extra food simply gets released as heat rather than stored as fat. (As far as I know, the mice are not more active than other mice.)  I don't think these mice have some sort of especially good emotional relationship to food -- they are just different physiologically. (You can read about them here: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10935638)

Basically, the argument being given on this thread is that if I and the 100,000 million other Americans who are obese can't get down to a normal weight via dieting, then it can't possibly be that diets don't work. Instead, all 100,000 million obese Americans (including me) must somehow be mentally ill. What I think about that cannot be printed here. 

I also wonder what "emotional issue" it is that causes me to stop losing weight even when _I am sticking to a diet_.


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## Sandy VDH (Jul 7, 2014)

I said it I was on the Paleo diet, but I don't view it as a diet.  I view it as a lifestyle choice.  Which make 'diet' a 4 letter work, but 'choice' Not one.

I cut/minimize my carb intake.  I try to eat veggies and protein primarily.  Cut out most all sugars and dairy. I eat some fruit, but limit it to mostly berries because of the sugars.  I do splurge on the rare occasion. 

I have taken 2 years to loose the weight, and been more focused the last year, as keep plateauing and needed to make adjustments.  So it is a continual monitoring and adjusting.  So it is a journey.  I figure as long as I generally make good choices in getting down to my goal weight, staying there should be easier than losing that much weight in the first place.  I should have it as a lifestyle by then and not a diet.


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## laurac260 (Jul 7, 2014)

JudyS said:


> Interestingly, psychologists have searched for decades for emotional causes of severe weight gain, and come up with basically nothing. Sure, some people eat more when they are stressed, but that seems to have little or no relationship with weight. In other words, some people eat more when they are stressed and some people eat less when they are stressed. But the people who eat more when stressed do not, on average, weight any more than people who lose their appetite when stressed. (As it happens, I'm one of those people who completely loses my appetite when I'm stressed.)
> 
> There are also some true binge eaters out there, but again, this seems to have little to do with weight. In other words, there are binge eaters who are fat, binge eaters who are normal weight, and binge eaters who are thin. Some of the most severe binge eating is seen in anorexics.
> 
> ...



Whatever the cause, there is certainly a RISE in obesity.  I think I will bow out of this discussion beyond that.


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## MuranoJo (Jul 8, 2014)

BMWguynw said:


> Jack LaLanne was a major advocate for exercise and healthy eating. I remember him on a talk show in his later years responding to the questions about his diet and longevity.  His response was to the effect of:
> 
> "If man made it, don't eat it. Natural food and grains are all that matters.  *When you go to the grocery store, shop the perimeter walls.  That's where the Produce, Dairy, and Meat departments are.*  Don't walk up and down the center aisles, because that's where all the processed foods are."
> 
> ...


That's also where the beer and wine are (at least in our area).


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## DaveNV (Jul 8, 2014)

muranojo said:


> That's also where the beer and wine are (at least in our area).



He didn't say you should buy _everything_. 

Dave


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## Janette (Jul 8, 2014)

I lost 20 pounds 7 years ago by exercise and sensible eating. I didn't cut out anything but ate less bread and sweets. I have found that exercise is my key to keeping it off and still eating sensibly. Living in an active adult community and being retired makes exercise convenient but I still need motivation. If I don't get out first thing in the morning, I don't exercise. You have to make life changes, not just follow a diet for a few months.


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## Luanne (Jul 8, 2014)

JudyS said:


> Whenever I hear people talk about their weight loss, it is almost always weight they have lost recently. Hardly anyone ever says, "I lost 100 pounds 10 years ago and it still gone." In fact, I don't know a single person who has kept off 50 or more pounds without having bariatric surgery. That is because virtually no one can keep weight off for more than a few years through dieting, no matter what they do.



Sorry to burst your bubble but I lost 60 pounds (I think that's over 50) 12 years ago and have kept it off ever since.  I did NOT have surgery.


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## ace2000 (Jul 8, 2014)

Luanne said:


> Sorry to burst your bubble but I lost 60 pounds (I think that's over 50) 12 years ago and have kept it off ever since.  I did NOT have surgery.



How did you do it?  I think the key is exercise AND diet changes.  That's what worked for me and it seems to be supported by the content on this thread.


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## Luanne (Jul 8, 2014)

ace2000 said:


> How did you do it?  I think the key is exercise AND diet changes.  That's what worked for me and it seems to be supported by the content on this thread.



I follow Weight Watchers.  It does require changing your eating habits, eating in moderation.  The key to losing the weight for me was not exercise.  I have only started exercising regularly in the past year, after I retired.  And I did it more for general health.


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## uop1497 (Jul 9, 2014)

may I join this weight loss group. I am too heavy  and need all advice to help me achieve my goal. 

Thanks


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## easyrider (Jul 9, 2014)

We finally started the vitamix detox and both me and my wife have lost weight. We didn't cut out coffee and we did eliminate the beets, kale and lemons from our smoothies. I lost 11 pounds in the first 2 weeks and my wife has lost about 5.  

We went to a website called blender babes and bought a refurbed vitamix for under $300. We are now kind of doing the 21 day smoothie challenge with some modifications. We are eating a small meal that is mostly veggies and lean meat. 

The first day I ended up with a headache from not having 3 -4 cups of coffee. I had to keep coffee in the diet. I am sleeping better. Im not snoring. I actually feel better than before we started.

On the 4th we entertained so we did add booze to the smoothies. The vitamix creates excellent beverages using frozen fruit and rum, tequila or vodka. There is a margarita recipe on the website that is fantastic.

Bill


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## Kel (Jul 9, 2014)

I love Weight Watchers (online).  I was always a lean healthy weight until I turned 45 and then I went through a 3 year overweight period.  I gained 10 lbs. one year, 10 lbs. the next year and another 10 lbs. next year.   When my back started to jiggle - I joined Weight Watchers.  I lost just over 30 lbs. in 4 months and I’ve kept it off for over 7 years.  I love knowing exactly how much I can eat to maintain or to lose weight.  If the scale moves up a few pounds, I go back to losing mode.  It’s a no brainer for me.  

I eat very healthy foods most of the time.  But, on occasion, I splurge and eat the foods I love that are not so healthy.  I now drink light beer and I like it – go figure.    The high calorie/point items I rarely eat are butter, mayonnaise, peanut butter, salad dressing and cheese.  Each of these items are about 100 calories per tablespoon/ounce.  That’s a lot of calories.  I save these for special occasions or for times when I really want to eat them.  

Working out has always been something I have done.  When I was in my 20’s, 30’s and even into my early 40’s I would work out extremely hard for a few weeks, burn out and take a week or two off.  I was consistently inconsistent with my work out and it was enough.  When I hit my mid forties I found that I needed a more consistent and moderate workout that I could do every day or almost every day forever.  I now do at least 30 minutes of some kind of moderate cardio almost every day (walking, elliptical, cycling).  I spend another 30 to 40 minutes of light weight lifting, some stretching and yoga.  I do this on my own in the morning and when it's done I don’t need to think about it after that.  I’ve done this work out for over 7 years.  Six of the years were when I was working, now I’m retired.

Losing the weight was one of the hardest things I’ve done.  Maintaining is a lot easier.  I lost weight eating about 1,200 calories a day.  I maintain on 1,800 to 2,000 calories.  And, that’s a lot of food.  

I started Weight Watchers in October 2006.  I lost weight through Halloween, Thanksgiving, my Birthday, Christmas, and New Years and I was at my goal weight in February 2007.  So losing weight and maintaining a healthy weight can be done during the holiday season.  

People need to know that the amount of food you are eating while losing weight is not the small amount of food you will need to eat forever.  Once you reach your goal weight you need to add food/calories back into your diet to stop losing and start maintaining.  

Good luck to everyone on whatever weight loss/weight maintenance program that works for you!

Cheers!


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## uop1497 (Jul 9, 2014)

May I ask, did you buy weight watcher food . I joined WW program for 12 weeks  (offer through my company) . I  lose some pounds but gained all back and gain even more than before I start the program .  I also see a nutritionist, but nothing work . I don't know how to calculate the calorie (in take) and from the food I cook daily . Do you calculate the calorie in raw food or after done cooking 

I would like to know some tips :

a) How you combat your hunger. if you feel hungry, what can you do to prevent yourself from eating late at night

b) I love to eat rice. I can not stop eating rice no matter how I tried .
I don't know the way how to stop craving for certain food like rice, bread, cake, sweet stuff ect...

c) The more I do exercise, The more my body asks for food and I feel hungry all the time . That the reason I lost my diet battle after a couple weeks 

Thank you reading


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## Kel (Jul 9, 2014)

I don’t buy any Weight Watcher food.  I eat healthy grains, fruits and vegetables, lean protein, some dairy, etc.  

I bought the Weight Watcher food books to help with calculating points.  I calculate food before cooking.  

I find that if I eat the bulk of my food before 2pm I’m not that hungry later in the day.  I pretty much eat the same things for breakfast and lunch every day.  I eat things I like and then I’m satisfied.  I usually have a very light dinner/snack.  

You don’t have to give up rice, bread, etc.  Just count what you eat and try to find a lower point/calorie choice.

If you exercise you can eat a little more.  Weight Watcher’s allows extra food points for working out.  

I rarely eat late at night.  Try a big glass of water, some 94% fat free popcorn or a handful of carrots at night.  Keep junk food out of the house too.  

But, it’s OK to splurge once in a while.  Don’t beat yourself up if you have a great piece of chocolate cake once in a while.  Enjoy it and count it.

Good luck.


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## bogey21 (Jul 9, 2014)

bogey21 said:


> A little over 3 months ago I gave up ice cream, alcohol and French fries and lost a little over 20 pounds (roughly from 195 to 175).  Daily it was about a pint of ice cream, a pint of Canadian Club and a couple of orders of fries.  It totally amazed me.



Since I wrote the above my weight has declined another 5 pounds.  Moderation continues to be the key but about 3 days a week I exist (easily) on a large bowl of granola with raisins for breakfast; a 6" ham or turkey Subway for lunch; and a Healthy Choice "Steamer" for Dinner.  

George


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## glypnirsgirl (Jul 10, 2014)

uop1497 said:


> May I ask, did you buy weight watcher food . I joined WW program for 12 weeks  (offer through my company) . I  lose some pounds but gained all back and gain even more than before I start the program .  I also see a nutritionist, but nothing work . I don't know how to calculate the calorie (in take) and from the food I cook daily . Do you calculate the calorie in raw food or after done cooking
> 
> I would like to know some tips :
> 
> ...



For calorie counting, I use this website. I use it for calculating calories and for tracking them. For those dishes that you cook, if you cook them regularly, you can add them to your recipe section and it will calculate calories for you. Then just save the recipe in your box and it will be waiting for you the next time.

I have specific things that work for me ---

a) Combating hunger - if I am hungry and I have eaten calories for the day, The first thing that I do is drink a glass of water. I find that sometimes I think that I am hungry but I am just thirsty. If that doesn't work, I eat vegetable that are very low in calories. My very favorite thing is a red bell pepper. I just cut into strips and eat it. Also good to try: cucumber, celery. 

b) Switch to brown rice instead of white. It is more filling. Measure your portions. Once you are eating vegetables when you are hungry instead of trying to tough it out, it makes it easier to resist breads and sweets.

c) Don't exercise. At least not at first. You can lose much more weight by dieting than you can by exercising.

If you like the online support of weight watchers, you might enjoy this forum. --- that is a huge community of people that are supportive of each other in their efforts to lose weight.

Hope this helps!

elaine


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## bogey21 (Jul 10, 2014)

uop1497 said:


> How you combat your hunger.



What I do is probably not on the "makes sense" list.  But anytime I feel hungry between meals I eat a small handful of Planter's mixed nuts.  Yes, I know they are prepared with oil and salt.  On the other hand a small can lasts me about a week.  And my weight continues to stay stable or go down a little.

George


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## Maverick1963 (Jul 10, 2014)

*Timely subject for me*

I used Slendertone over a year.  I did not lose my weight very much.  But my stomach muscle was sort of reshaped "underneath".  I felt really good about that.  

Then I read an article that among English business people, one day fast is becoming popular.  OK.  I knew that I had to reduce the total calorie for the day.  Then I decided to skip my lunch just because I was busy and did not have desire to have lunch

I eat light breakfast and anything for dinner including some desserts.  It's over 3 months and I lost 10 pounds.  I quit playing soccer after senior high school.  During the next 30 years, I gained 40 pounds.  I have never lost 10 pounds in my life before.  If you work in office, skipping lunch may work for you.

One more thing.  I do not have lunch but I eat just around 200 kcal of almonds I buy at Costco.


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## Luanne (Jul 10, 2014)

I'm another long time Weight Watcher.  I do not buy any of their products. That's the beauty of the program.  You can eat real food.


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## laurac260 (Jul 11, 2014)

uop1497 said:


> I would like to know some tips :
> 
> a) How you combat your hunger. if you feel hungry, what can you do to prevent yourself from eating late at night
> 
> ...



Brush your teeth and gargle with Listerine and call it a night.

Last night we got home from a swim meet around 9pm.  I had snacked throughout the swim meet on carrots and hummus, I had a Lara bar, water and some cacao and goji berries.  I had the option to eat something more substantial but I really just wanted to eat light for the evening, so I opted for"snack items" instead.  The kids hit the kitchen as soon as they get home.  I wasn't really hungry, I would only have eaten because I "hadn't had a _real_ dinner" (the things our minds do to us some times).   

So, I went directly upstairs, brushed my teeth for the night and gargled with Listerine.  Absolutely NOTHING tastes good after that.  

I think in this society we eat wrong.  Breakfast should be a large meal (not a cup of yogurt and a side of fruit). Lunch should be larger (maybe not as large as breakfast, but more than a sandwich).  _Dinner_, unless you have a huge calorie burning job or activity you are going to, should be light.  I had a friend at work who used to eat popcorn for dinner.  I always thought she was a bit "off" for that.  Now sometimes I just eat a light salad with "zero calorie" items in it, and olive oil and balsamic vinegar and that's it.


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## Kel (Jul 11, 2014)

I agree with Laurac260 on eating more for breakfast and lunch.  That’s what I do.  Through the years I've watched co-workers almost starve themselves during the day so they could have a big dinner at night.  Most were not successful at losing or maintaining weight.  Just an observation.  

I also agree that brushing your teeth is a great tip to not be tempted to eat.  Brushing your teeth during the day works too.  Also, when I was in losing weight mode there were times I would just go to bed early if I was hungry.  

Here’s a dining out tip I got from someone years ago.  If you’ve had enough to eat and the server hasn’t come around to remove your plate that still has food on it – sprinkle the food with salt or sugar so you don’t keep eating what’s left on your plate.  I do this when I order a steak and potatoes or a burger and fries.  Sometimes, portions can be so large that this helps me with my portion control.  

I waste restaurant food.  I don’t need to put half of the food in a to go box because I don’t need to eat the other half later.  We eat at home most of the time, so when I eat out I sometimes choose something that’s not always the healthiest choice.  But, splurging is OK once in a while.  

And, I would rather have a really great 600 calorie dessert once in a while rather than eating a mediocre 100 calorie snack pack almost every day.   


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## ace2000 (Jul 11, 2014)

I recall a saying from a series I did a few years ago that got me started on a healthy lifestyle.  It stuck with me.

Eat breakfast like a king, lunch like a prince, and dinner like a pauper.

http://www.boston.com/lifestyle/health/blog/nutrition/2013/08/to_lose_weight_eat_breakfast_l.html



> There may be something to the old adage to eat breakfast like a king, lunch like a prince, and dinner like a pauper when it comes to better managing your weight, according to a study published in the journal, Obesity.


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## pedro47 (Jul 12, 2014)

Eat a good breakfast and lunch and reduce the size of your portions at dinner. Drink water and cut back on sweets, can sodas, white breads and piazzas .


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## Tia (Jul 12, 2014)

Mid 40's is when my metabolism/hormones took a dive and started gaining weight for the very first time in my life. +10 pounds when I broke an ankle.  Exercise didn't help me drop lbs. Resisted changing what I ate until two years ago my SIL told me she lost 20lbs on the Dukan diet. It is unlimited lean protein  , certain vegetables and plenty of water for the most part. I thought about it, got the book and started.  Followed it to the tee, didn't prepare anything other then what the plan said.  Coworker said it sounded similar to the South Beach that she followed to drop a few. Anyway in 2 months dropped 20lbs and it's still off 2 yr later, still do 1 pure protein day/wk

Couple friends have been interested vaguely. One got the book but started cheating right away so has not lost her weight. SIL put some back on but she said she didn't continue the plan after she dropped her 20. There was lots of misinformation online re what's okay when on the diet plan, so think you do need the book. It's probably at your library too.


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## laurac260 (Jul 13, 2014)

glypnirsgirl said:


> For calorie counting, I use this website. I use it for calculating calories and for tracking them. For those dishes that you cook, if you cook them regularly, you can add them to your recipe section and it will calculate calories for you. Then just save the recipe in your box and it will be waiting for you the next time.
> 
> I have specific things that work for me ---
> 
> ...



Hopefully this is a good, _supportive_ community.  9 years ago I did weight watchers to drop 10 lbs prior to getting pregnant (I was getting close to 40 and I wanted to be a lighter weight prior to my final pregnancy).  At any rate, I joined a weight watchers online forum, and was sadly dismayed at the number of truly vile, hateful people on the forum.  I mean, folks here sometimes disagree, and sometimes vehemently,and sometimes folks take cheap shots. BUT, the level of decorum here was sorely lacking on the WW forum.  It seemed there were certain individuals who trolled the board looking to pounce on anyone who didn't fall into their camp.   The moderating was little to non existent, which was probably part of the problem.  There was one woman in particular who made it a sporting event to get banned for bad behavior, only to come back on as a "different" person.  Her screen name when I left was "Queen of the Banned".  I finally had enough and and went off on her.  I asked her, "Are you miserable and rude because you are overweight, or are you overweight because you are miserable and rude?"  I didn't stick around in the forum for her response, it just wasn't a productive place to be


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## uop1497 (Jul 14, 2014)

Thanks everyone for sharing your tips with me.

Do you know where I can find the weight watcher point list to download . I lost all my weight watcher material on my last move . My plan is to eat 1200Kcal / day maximum . And I use food tracker to keep track of calorie intake 

I normally do not eat breakfast . I eat lunch and big dinner late at night .  Currently, I am trying to eat a light dinner and not to eat my dinner too late . 

By the way, how long you will begin to see your pound drop .


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## bogey21 (Jul 14, 2014)

The recommendation to eat a light dinner caught my attention and makes sense to me so I decided to try it out.  For the last week or so I have been eating one of the Healthy Choice microwave  "Steamers" around 6 pm.  They have a pretty wide assortment and range in calories from 210 to 300.  I find them easy to prepare, tasty and satisfying.

George


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## Luanne (Jul 14, 2014)

uop1497 said:


> Thanks everyone for sharing your tips with me.
> 
> Do you know where I can find the weight watcher point list to download . I lost all my weight watcher material on my last move . My plan is to eat 1200Kcal / day maximum . And I use food tracker to keep track of calorie intake
> 
> ...



The only way you can get the official Weight Watcher information is to pay for an online subscription or join meetings.  You can Google and find lots of unofficial information, but who know if it is correct?

If you are going to count calories why bother with the Weight Watchers points?  You can use one of many free calorie counting sites.  Many people like My Fitness Pal.


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## LUVourMarriotts (Jul 14, 2014)

In January of this year, my wife and I decided to really focus and help each other to become healthier.  My wife was in good shape, but wanted to lose some weight.  I was pretty heavy, considered severely obese on the BMI scales.  We signed up at the local Golds Gym on January 2.  My goal was to lose 45 lbs, which was my initial goal.  I didn't want to set a goal too high to start.  

Since January, I have lost 48.6 pounds (but just back from a 2 week vacation, so we'll see on weigh in day).  I have started a new goal for 25 more.

Here's how I do it:
I have a shakeology smoothie each morning for breakfast.  I get a monthly pack that alternates from strawberry to chocolate.  I use ice, fruit and water in the smoothie, and also PB2 (peanut butter powder) with the chocolate.  I have been going to the gym at least 5 days a week, but usually 6.  At the gym, I take Les Mills Body Combat classes 3-4 times per week, and walk or use elliptical the other days.  I have been using the LoseIt! app on my phone to track calories.  I find this app much better than MyFitnessPal, which I also have, but don't use much at all.  We also have Fitbit Zips, just to track our steps and try to meet our daily goal.  The diet is the big thing, but just a proper calorie diet, none of the trend diets.  I did those in the past and they work while you are on them, but go off for a week and gain 10 lbs back.

The biggest thing is to have my wife doing this with me.  Because she is also doing a proper calorie diet, and we watch each other and help each other, it makes it pretty easy to do.  We do go out to eat on the weekends and usually have one not so good meal, but we keep it within our calorie count.  Just make it a day I go to Body Combat class and burn 850 calories, and its easy.

Good luck to everyone who is also on this health journey.  Its tough, and only your own drive will get you there.

PS - If anyone is interested in Shakeology, or pretty much any of the at home DVD packs, I can help.  Just PM me.


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## Rose Pink (Jul 14, 2014)

Have been distracted with other things lately.  Trying to catch up with this thread.  You people sure have a lot to say.  

Rather than going back and quoting specific posts, I will just add a few thoughts to the general discussion.

When you cut out sugar, or dairy, or wheat (or any food group) you automatically cut calories and will most likely lose weight because you are consuming less calories.  It isn't the magic of eliminating any particular food, it is the reduction in energy (as measured in calories).  That having been said, elimimating sugar (which doesn't bring along any significant nutrients with it) is a good idea, IMO.  Eliminating sugar also means you are most likely also reducing fat since those two seem to go hand in hand when it comes to things like ice cream, snack crackers, and pastries such as cake, cookies and pie.  So, even more calories are cut.

Increasing your vegetable consumption will increase calories but only very little and will still be less than the calories you have eliminated with sugar and sugar-containing foods.  Vegies also pack alot of nutrients with them as well as fiber which can help regulate appetite as well as decrease cholesterol.  They are a nutrient-dense food whereas sugar and dessert type foods are calorically dense.  Just be careful what you put on your vegies.  Butter, margarine, oils, cheese and sauces/dressings made with those high fat ingredients are not helpful.  They can still be used but measure carefully and plan accordingly.  One trick is to put salad dressing in a little cup on the side rather than pouring it over the salad.  Then, place the tines of your fork in the dressing and then take a forkful of salad.  You will get the flavor of the dressing with each forkful but will end up only using about a tablespoon or less of dressing.  You can also measure out the dressing and put it and your salad in a covered bowl and toss until the salad is coated.  

As for surgery, it can and does work for many.  It is also the cause of severe disability and death in others.  Before going that route, I would insist on having a metabolic study where my actual energy needs were calculated by measuring my oxygen intake.  The eating disorder clinic at the hospital where I used to work did those tests and it could be quite telling.  It's been decades since I was involved in that but I do remember one patient (not on the eating disorder unit) who insisted she could not lose weight.  When I interviewed her she insisted she only ate a small amount of calories.  No matter how I approached the questions, I could not come up with enough calories to account for her overweight.  So, I asked her doctor to order the study.  It came back normal. With the results in hand, I again interviewed the patient.  Faced with the results, _then she became more honest with me and herself.  Yeah, eating a box of snack crackers and this and that ....  

That having been said, some people do have very low (or efficient) metabolisms and do not need as many calories as the average person.  Still, it is good to know just what your resting energy needs are.  I don't know how the tests are currently done (I am retired), but in the hospital where I worked the tests were run by the respiratory department by their trained personnel.  It needs to be done first thing in the morning, before you have eaten, and before you engage in any activity as those can raise your metabolic rate.  You want to know your resting metabolic rate.  (Perhaps science has advanced to the point where they can get accurate results without an overnight stay.  However, be very cautious of the hand-held devices at gyms, etc.  I would want to research before to know if those are very accurate.)

We are all very good at deceiving ourselves.  Most of us think we are eating less than we actually do.  Some are the opposite.  That is why tracking food intake is important.  I learned about www.sparkpeople.com from a tugger years ago.  There are also other trackers/calculators.  Do a google search and test-drive them to see which ones you like.  You may be very surprised at how many calories (and how little other nutrients) you actually consume.  Doing the work of tracking your food also has the benefit of limiting your intake of things you know you shouldn't eat.  I find I don't want to have to input a pint of ice cream.    When I track, I eat healthier.  When I don't track, I gain weight.  This is no surprise as research has shown that people who track  intake are more successful at weight loss.  

Will  you have to track for the rest of your life?  No.  Just do it long enough to get a feel for what the nutrient and caloric value of foods are.  You will need to measure your foods.  Obviously, one cup of food contains twice the calories of a half-cup of food.  Most of us underestimate our portion sizes.  I encourage people to measure foods for at least a week and then maybe once a week thereafter to make sure your portion sizes don't trend upward.

Fiber is filling and has health benefits.  Fruits, vegetables and whole grains contain fiber.  Trader Joe's has a delicious blueberry bran muffin that is about 80 calories and 12 grams of fiber, iirc.  I also like the Vitatops chocolate muffin top which has 100 calories and 9 grams of fiber.  Have one of these with a large glass of water or coffee or tea or even an 8 ounce glass of skim or low-fat milk (depending on how you want to spend your calories).  Eat slowly and enjoy.  It will take the edge off cravings.

Food addiction is a hot topic these days.  I am constantly getting offers for continuing education credits (required to maintain credentials) that address this topic.  The brain is an interesting place.  Some people can eat a half cup of ice cream or a piece of pie and be satisfied.  For others, myself included, that just sets off a drive to eat more and more and more.  It seems that for some of us, total abstinance is the best approach.  And that is not an easy thing to do.  

So, best of luck to all of you.  I do not advocate giving up any particular food group (unless that is the junk food group  or unless you have a verifiable allergy) because each group contributes vital nutrients and you could be short-changing yourself unless  you are very careful--which is where tracking nutrients, not just calories, is critical.

I do recommend Weight Watchers as a respectable approach, although I have never tried it myself.  I also recommend the meal plans on Spark People (but I am cautious about anything on the community that does not come from one of their credentialed staff. Some of the community responses are good and some are just wrong.)

If you have the money, you could try a personalized approach by a Registered Dietitian Nutritionist (RDN) who specializes in weight loss.  Some hospitals will have community classes.  You could check with your local hospital or clinic._


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## DavidnRobin (Jul 14, 2014)

Good post - except not all food calories are equal (in a physics lab they are, but not when it comes to metabolism). Not all sugars are the same, not all fats are the same, not all carbs are the same (protein, etc) - and as mentioned - not all peoples' metabolisms are the same. 

Weight-loss is not all about calorie intake - it is also about the foods one eats.  And importantly - just because one loses weight doesn't mean they are healthier - it is critical to eat proper foods.

Sugar has many deleterious affects other than empty calories (e.g. blood glucose, inflammation, addiction, cravings...)
Simple carbs (white) are a simple step away (metabolism-wise) from sugar.
Often 'Low Fat' foods contain higher sugar - and bad carbs (sugar in disguise).

To reduce cravings - stay away from sugar (entirely - including added sugar in all forms) and carbs (<25 grams) for a week to 10-days.  Try PGX (w/water) before meals as well as certain supplements to control insulin levels (keep them level) - which in turn will reduce cravings.  Tough, but the results are amazing.  Then only reintroduce good carbs slowly, and severely limit these.  Cheating begats cheating, and cheating leads to cravings which leads to poor food choices and over-eating, and therefore weight gain (and feeling poorer) - a slippery slope.

You are what you eat - stay away from processed foods, including farmed fish.  IMO


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## laurac260 (Jul 15, 2014)

DavidnRobin said:


> Good post - except not all food calories are equal (in a physics lab they are, but not when it comes to metabolism). Not all sugars are the same, not all fats are the same, not all carbs are the same (protein, etc) - and as mentioned - not all peoples' metabolisms are the same.
> 
> Weight-loss is not all about calorie intake - it is also about the foods one eats.  And importantly - just because one loses weight doesn't mean they are healthier - it is critical to eat proper foods.
> 
> ...



Agreed with the above.  It's time we turned the "traditional" understanding of nutrition on it's ear.  I have finally come to the conclusion that what I learned in the two years I studied medical dietetics and nutrition, is categorically WRONG.  The _chemistry_ of fat, proteins and carbohydrates hasn't changed, but our understanding of how it is processed in our body, specifically as it relates to the bastardization of our food supply, has, or at least, is finally starting to.  It seems though, still, that the medical community is slow to respond to proper nutrition education.  When my mom was in the hospital (almost constantly the last couple years of her life), I was appalled at what they fed her and called it "nutrition".   Ensure and boost?  I wouldn't give that stuff to my dog.  

BTW, what is PGX?  Just curious.


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## vacationhopeful (Jul 15, 2014)

laurac260 said:


> .....  When my mom was in the hospital (almost constantly the last couple years of her life), I was appalled at what they fed her and called it "nutrition".  ....



And when I was in the hospital 14 months ago, what they allowed my roommate to eat should have been a crime. The staff took her blood sugar every 6 hours and would tell her the numbers from 485 to a low of 436. She was there because they had reduced both of her feet to stubs several weeks earlier and had not found a rehab to accept her and her public assistance. Everything she ordered as meal choices involved sweeten carbs and starches. She tried to chat with me and my sister - telling us getting old was just horrible and to wait til we were her age. Except I was 5 years old and my sister was 3 years old already --- we simply did not choose to disclose the truth, just agreeing with her. Never did ANYONE during my 2+ days in the hospital room talk to her about her food selections - just bringing her more sugary snacks & carb filled meals. She also never had any visitors nor in coming phone calls, Her outbound cell calls lasted less than 30 seconds with her saying "call me back when you are free".

My sister is an RN and has worn the same clothes since HS. And we both look YEARS younger - as we are active. 

And about 8 weeks ago, I decide to limit my food shopping to the Aldi's store near my home verses the larger chain grocery store. Far less junk food, shorter aisles - fresher food with smaller portions. My refrigerator looks better.


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## Rose Pink (Jul 15, 2014)

vacationhopeful said:


> And when I was in the hospital 14 months ago, what they allowed my roommate to eat should have been a crime. The staff took her blood sugar every 6 hours and would tell her the numbers from 485 to a low of 436. She was there because they had reduced both of her feet to stubs several weeks earlier and had not found a rehab to accept her and her public assistance. Everything she ordered as meal choices involved sweeten carbs and starches. She tried to chat with me and my sister - telling us getting old was just horrible and to wait til we were her age. Except I was 5 years old and my sister was 3 years old already --- we simply did not choose to disclose the truth, just agreeing with her. Never did ANYONE during my 2+ days in the hospital room talk to her about her food selections - just bringing her more sugary snacks & carb filled meals. She also never had any visitors nor in coming phone calls, Her outbound cell calls lasted less than 30 seconds with her saying "call me back when you are free".


If I were to point blame it would be towards the management of the hospital (CEO and CFO) rather than the rank and file workers, and to the patient herself.  These days there simply is not the budget to provide the type of whole food meals that dietitians promote (and most Americans wouldn't eat them anyway--as shown by Jamie Oliver) and your diabetic roommate didn't choose.  There is also not the budget for proper nutrition counseling (nor, generally, the length of stay to promote multiple follow-up consultations to reinforce teaching) as there used to be.  There are also less registered nurses per patient.  Corporate greed is to blame.  Just my two cents.

You stated, "they allowed" your roommate to eat unhealthy foods.  Hospitals are not prisons.  People have choice and they can choose to eat themselves to death.  It may have been that the limited staff just didn't want to face your roommate's tantrums if she didn't get what she wanted.  Your description that she didn't have visitors and limited phone calls suggests this is also a problem in her personal life.  I have had these types of patients.  You can talk yourself blue in the face and it would make no difference.  You were only there two days.  You indicate that she had been there for several weeks or that she had had the surgery several weeks prior (not sure if she was inpatient that whole time but they aren't supposed to discharge her if she  has nowhere to go).  Just because no one popped in during the two days you shared a room with her doesn't mean no one ever did.  I am sure that over the years she had many encounters, or opportunities with a diabetes team and chose not to follow through.  She was most likely well-known to the hospital staff who did all they could do given their resources and her amenability to change.  She did not have to ask for unhealthy choices.  I don't doubt that she was counseled many times before the staff just gave up.


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## Tia (Jul 15, 2014)

Rose Pink said:


> ... stated, "they allowed" your roommate to eat unhealthy foods.  Hospitals are not prisons.  People have choice and they can choose to eat themselves to death... .



A friend dtr was a local the hosp three years ago, but when friend tried to order something was told that wasn't on pt's ordered diet....... end of story. So if the facility was serving unhealthy foods that's a problem and must of been ordered??

Sadly there are those in denial and the broken system  enables it to a costly continuance.


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## Rose Pink (Jul 15, 2014)

Tia said:


> A friend dtr was a local the hosp three years ago, but when friend tried to order something was told that wasn't on pt's ordered diet....... end of story. *So if the facility was serving unhealthy foods that's a problem and must of been ordered*??
> 
> Sadly there are those in denial and the broken system  enables it to a costly continuance.



I doubt unhealthy foods were specifically ordered.  Doctors usually write the diet orders and they can be written in very specific terms or in more general terms.  For example, a diabetic diet can be written for a very specific calorie level (I've even seen docs specify the carb breakdown per meal such as 2/7, 2/7, 2/7, 1/7) or a diabetic diet can be written very generally as "no concentrated sweets."  In nursing homes the trend is for no restrictions and an adult patient/resident has the right to refuse treatment including dietary treatment.  

Staff will follow doctor's orders (unless the doc has made some egregious error) and it is likely the staff member approached by your friend was trying to follow orders.  Without being there and knowing the orders and the clinical level of the staff member involved, I cannot comment further on that particular situation.
-----------------------------------------------

I totally agree that the healthcare system is broken or very close to it.  Costs are out of control in the USA compared to similar services in other countries who may even have better outcomes.  And, yes, I believe what we eat plays a huge part in that as well as other riskly behaviors such as smoking and air pollution.

When I first started working in the hospital setting, patients were there for several days and I could do an initial consult and daily follow-ups to reinforce teaching.  At the end of my career, the same patients were not even admitted into the hospital setting but were treated as same day surgeries or as out-patients and if they were given any nutritional direction at all, were given a tear-off sheet of instructions and left to their own interpretation and implementation of such.  Back in the day, I would interview a patient, take a careful diet history (which included a social history such as religious food restrictions, daily home and work schedules, family interactions and so on), calculate their usual intake and help the patient design meal plans that worked around their likes and dislikes and lifestyle, making as few changes as necessary so as not to overwhelm the person.  A new diagosis of diabetes can be overwhelming to a person making any type of new learning next to impossible.  During my first instructions on a diabetic meal plan I would tell the person to just relax, that he didn't need to remember everything I said, and that I would leave reading materials for him to study as he was able. Then I would come back the next day and work with him again to make sure he was able to plan  his own menus according to the meal plan I had calculated for him based on his personal needs.  I would sit with the patient until he or she was able to demonstrate understanding of the process, not just verbalize it.  

I doubt that happens much anymore.  At my last hospital job I spent the entire morning working with a young mother designing a meal plan that she could follow given her hectic schedule and the pressures of her ill husband and two children (both of which also had health and behavioral problems).  I showed her how she could use meals and snack times to interact with her family one on one, etc.  And  you know what, I felt guilty for spending so much time with one patient!  Oh, how things have changed.  It isn't fun anymore. It isn't satisfying work any more.


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## Rose Pink (Jul 15, 2014)

DavidnRobin said:


> Good post - except not all food calories are equal (in a physics lab they are, but not when it comes to metabolism). Not all sugars are the same, not all fats are the same, not all carbs are the same (protein, etc) - and as mentioned - not all peoples' metabolisms are the same.


Yes, by definition, all calories are equal.  If they are not equal, they are not calories.  It is a set definition as I described in a previous post.  What isn't "equal" are the foods that provide the energy.  (Also, as I mentioned in a previous post, the bioavailability of energy from any particular food may not be the same as that in bomb calorimeter.)  Different substrates have different metabolic pathways and those pathways have biological consequences some of which can be negative if the substrate is eaten in excess.  (This is one reason why we encourage people to eat foods in moderation and to eat a wide variety of foods. Overloading the system whether it be glucose, fructose, fats, proteins, alcohol, or even water is usually never a healthy thing to do.) As you said not all fats are the same.  Saturated fats have different metabolic outcomes than unsaturated fats but the calories (energy value) they contribute is the same, measure for measure.

However, if we take two very different foods such as  butter and broccoli and eat them in amounts that will produce the same energy (isocaloric), even though the metabolic pathways are different and even though the broccoli provides far more satiety and health benefits than the butter, the energy produced can be measured in the same units. BTW, you'd need to eat about 3.5 to 4 cups of raw broccoli for the same energy value as one tablespoon of butter.  No wonder it is more filling.    (And, I just read where researchers have found that broccoli can help combat the health problems associated with air pollution.  Yay broccoli! )

I know it may sound like I am splitting hairs but I believe wording is important.  The pop science phrasing of "a calorie is not a calorie" or "not all calories are equal" is misleading and unscientific.  It grabs headlines and sells books and supplements but it is not true science.  And I feel that is an important distinction.  What we should be saying (and what the scientific community has been saying for decades) is "spend your calories on foods that provide health benefits instead of those that do not (or are likely to have negative outcomes)."  I know that isn't as catchy or as pithy but it is more accurate. So while it is false to say that "not all calories are equal," it is true to say not all foods of the same caloric value are equal.



DavidnRobin said:


> Weight-loss is not all about calorie intake - it is also about the foods one eats.  And importantly - just because one loses weight doesn't mean they are healthier - it is critical to eat proper foods.


So, so true.  Even though we all know this, it bears constant repeating.  What good does being thin do a person if he is sickly or dead?  This is why I suggested tracking nutrients as well as calories.  For example, sparkpeople will automatically track calories, carbs, protein and fat.  One can further customize it to track key nutrients that are of particular concern to him.  If a person has or is at risk for cardiac disease, he may want to track saturated fat and sodium.  Those can be real eye-openers.  Just try keeping saturated fat at no more than 10% of calories while eating cheese and butter.  LOL  Or  how about keeping sodium under 1500 mg while eating convenience foods such as canned soups, pickles and tv dinners?  Tracking truly opens one's eyes.  It also helps to find foods that _do_ fit in a healthy meal plan.  Edited to add that tracking things like Vit C, Vit B12, calcium and iron can also be educational.  Make it a game to see if you can get in your daily requirements without going over your caloric needs.  Hint: eat more veggies!



DavidnRobin said:


> Sugar has many deleterious affects other than empty calories (e.g. blood glucose, inflammation, addiction, cravings...)
> Simple carbs (white) are a simple step away (metabolism-wise) from sugar.
> Often 'Low Fat' foods contain higher sugar - and bad carbs (sugar in disguise).



Sugar, in excess, definitely has harmful consequences beyond just adding weight.  http://circ.ahajournals.org/content/120/11/1011.full.pdf
Again, I recommend people track their sugar intake if only to get an idea of how much they are actually eating.  I have no problem with a person consuming a level teaspoon of sugar (about 4 grams) on a bowl of steel cut oats.  But look how much sugar is in prepared cereals and flavored oatmeals.  Then add to that the sugars in sodas, fruit drinks, sports drinks, coffee drinks, sweet tea, cocktails and dessert-type foods.  It adds up very quickly and most people do not realize how much they are really consuming.  

I am not in the camp that thinks sugar is unconditionally evil or poisonous.  I am of the opinion, and research backs it up, that most of us consume far far too much and more than we are aware of.  It has become so normal to drink large amounts of sweetened drinks.  What is now a small serving used to be considered a large serving.   We have lost track of what normal is.



DavidnRobin said:


> To reduce cravings - stay away from sugar (entirely - including added sugar in all forms) and carbs (<25 grams) for a week to 10-days.  Try PGX (w/water) before meals as well as certain supplements to control insulin levels (keep them level) - which in turn will reduce cravings.  Tough, but the results are amazing.  Then only reintroduce good carbs slowly, and severely limit these.  Cheating begats cheating, and cheating leads to cravings which leads to poor food choices and over-eating, and therefore weight gain (and feeling poorer) - a slippery slope.


I tried that once.  It was not at all helpful and backfired.  I was so irritable.  "Come near me and I will eat your face off" irritable.  :annoyed:

While it may work for some people, for others it will be disaster.  I recommend a more moderate approach of, first, learning what your energy needs are for your desired weight (spark people or other trackers will do this for you) and then taking 40 to 50% of those calories as carbohydrate (again, the trackers will calculate this for you).  I believe science actually recommends 45 to 65% but I'd stick to the lower levels if your calorie needs are not that high.  You need to make sure you are getting enough protein and that can skew the %ages.  Then choose a variety of foods that provide those carbs in healthy packaging such as whole fruits, whole vegetables and whole grains.  

Fiber is very important.  Aim for at least 25 grams a day.  (Again, the trackers can do this for you.)  Try to do it by eating real foods and not engineered supplements. You will quickly find that refined flour products and sugary foods just don't cut it.  If you eliminate those and choose whole foods instead, you can meet your goals.

------------------------------
Many diets and diet books/websites have been mentioned on this and similar threads over the years. May I make a suggestion?  Try the D.A.S.H. approach.  http://www.nhlbi.nih.gov/health/public/heart/hbp/dash/new_dash.pdf
It comes from research aimed at reducing high blood pressure (hypertension) but even if that is not a problem, it is still the best, well-rounded, non-gimmicky approach that I have come across.  It is built on real science not pop science culture.  It is free online and the website also has meal plans and recipes. 

For consumer oriented reading on the newest in nutrition I recommend the Tufts University Health and Nutrition Newsletter as well as the one from Environmental Nutrition.  They address current research as well as current fads and put things into perspective.  These are only two of many legitimate, research-based publications.


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## Rose Pink (Jul 15, 2014)

laurac260 said:


> ... I have finally come to the conclusion that what I learned in the two years I studied medical dietetics and nutrition, is categorically WRONG.  .....  It seems though, still, that the medical community is slow to respond to proper nutrition education.  When my mom was in the hospital (almost constantly the last couple years of her life), I was appalled at what they fed her and called it "nutrition".   Ensure and boost?  I wouldn't give that stuff to my dog.



I don't know when or which university you attended but I am sad to hear it wasn't up to par.  Mine (back in the early to mid 70s) was quite thorough and emphasized a well-rounded approach to both people's behavior and scientific research.  

I remember when Ensure first became available.  It didn't come in flavors.  We had to add flavor packets to the product.  Still, it was like a godsend in that it was a uniform product that could be stored until needed, unlike blenderized formulas that clogged feeding tubes (or tasted nasty) and had to be used within hours before they spoiled.  Fast forward these many decades and we have so many different formulas for different needs: renal, hepatic, COPD, high protein, high fiber, low fiber, isotonic, not to mention the elemental products for malabsorption syndromes.  These can be life saving products when used appropriately.  Unfortunately, I think we have come to depend on them too much and serve them almost as a knee-jerk reaction.  Current trends are to go back to whole foods but that takes time, preparation and the staffing to do it correctly and monitor acceptance.  IOW, dollars that are not budgeted into nutrition care.  (And the CEOS make million dollar paychecks.  Yeah, I get a little angry.)

If your mom was being offered Ensure or Boost products, it was likely she was not eating sufficient foods otherwise--and that was an easier way for her to get nutrients.  For people who are weak it can be much easier to drink than to chew. (Or, was she on a liquid diet for some reason?)  That can be a very tricky situation.  Was she not eating because she didn't like the food or because she had no appetite?  I am not going to make excuses for hospital food only to say that given enough money and enough personnel it can be done.  Some of the best meals I had were from a hospital where I worked.  The food service manager was buddies with the hospital administration and had a large budget.  Nowadays, that type of attention is not given to the food service departments.  And it shows.


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## Rose Pink (Jul 15, 2014)

*Personally, I think it is about the dopamine.  *http://www.bostonglobe.com/lifestyl...ins-elusive/EEpcpoWB9Fyi6CDUgCw8RP/story.html

“There is a certain brain mechanism that sabotages all the knowledge we have about good nutrition and exercise,” Pothos said. “It doesn’t take a lot to convince us that these are good things, but why do we still fail to follow the government recommended guidelines?”

His studies on rats prone to obesity suggest that their levels of the “pleasure” brain chemical dopamine are 50 percent lower than in rats who are resistant to becoming obese. Research on obese humans found that they tend to have fewer dopamine receptors in their brain compared with those who aren’t overweight.

What this means, Pothos said, is that obesity might trigger overeating as people need to eat more of their favorite foods to get pleasurable sensations. Such a drive for pleasure, he added, is akin to an addiction.

He and his colleagues argued in a 2012 commentary published in the journal Physiology & Behavior that obesity should be considered an addictive disorder because a rich piece of fudge or juicy steak can set off the same pleasure pathways in the brain as a hit of cocaine and lead to the same compulsive behaviors to achieve a sort of “high” from the substance.

“The point we were trying to make is that people who treat obesity should have an education in addiction to understand the causes of relapse that can make people relax back into their bad diet or lifestyle,” Pothos said.


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## DavidnRobin (Jul 15, 2014)

Rose Pink - We agree for the most part - or at least the end result (better nutrition).  My prior point was that when it comes to metabolism and pharmacology (my profession, but I did get a degree in chemistry) - that all calories are indeed not the same - it is not splitting hairs or 'Pop Science'.  Using an example of a bomb calorimeter for calorie measure (comparing amount of butter and broccoli per calorie) is misleading because it gives it does not take into account many other factors that affect physiology (not to mention psychology...).  It is just not sugar in excess - it is added sugar in general (in all forms) - it does not need to be excessive. Sugar (sucrose) is much more harmful to the body on a per calorie basis than most foods (esp healthy foods) - in more ways than just the calories.

I did say that everyone is different when it comes to metabolism, but when going for the affect to reduce cravings - it is not as simple as stop eating sugars and cravings will go away - that will certainly make one irritable (and consequently likely to lead to failure) - especially if one is deep into sugar/food addiction.

For a Typical Patient (population median) - the reduction of cravings is first and foremost in a successful life-change for eating habits.  Craving reduction is probably the most important thing one must accomplish to be successful. It can work, but not as simple as stop eating sugar and your cravings will go away - it comes from a complete approach (including supplements), and self-control (self-recognition) - and proper nutrition (of course) - which is much easier if the cravings (signaling from the brain) are minimized.  Otherwise, w/o craving reduction chances are any change in diet will fail eventually for both physiological and psychological reasons (as they are connected).  No one said it was without challenges - it is not - but first must come the recognition and acceptance of one's food addiction for those with food issues (that is more like pop science - but regardless - quite true) and the true willingness to change one's lifestyle.  It is a lifestyle change.  I am now in my 4th month - it is not easy, but made easier by tackling the cravings.  It took decades to get to this point, and I do not expect an easy fix (nor am I always going to be perfect) - I am in for the long haul.

After all - I am a food/sugar addict... (the 1st step)
Peace.

added - I wrote this prior to your above post...


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## uop1497 (Jul 15, 2014)

I have a couple questions regarding counting calorie for the food I cook it myself

a) I want to cook my own food. However, I am having a problem to calculate the calorie in total . What you are normally do

For example: If I would like to cook a disk of green bean beef.  The ingredients are : oil, soy sauce, sugar, black pepper, green bean, onion, ginger

In order to know the amount total of calorie of this disk . I weight and measure all of ingredients . I research each of ingredients for how much calorie of individual item . Then . I will add all numbers together. *Let say it is ~ 2500 Kcal*

When I finish cooking, I will weight the green bean beef dish . *Let's say it is around 750gr .*

*I takes 2500 kcal divine by 750 = 3.33 kcal/ per gram *

At dinner, I eat 100 gr of green bean, does that mean my calorie intake for that item is 330Kcal .

b) I read on internet, Women need ~1200K cal per day for body to function. If I eat ~800 kcal - 1100 kcal per day . Will that given me problem of my body going to starvation mode. I am worried that, my calculation of calorie in take is not accurate, I may end up over eating, so I try to stay a little under 1200 Kcal / day to be on the safe site . 

c) I am walking 2 miles a day currently and I burned around 200 Kcal (for my walking exercise), the food tracker on Sparkpeople suggest I can eat  200 kcal more of of food . This is what I do not understand . If my limit of calorie in take is ~1200 kcal and I eat around 1000 kcal / day. Now the exercise burned 200 Kcal . That means I have 800 kcal in take per day . The remaining 400 Kcal will come from my fat storage .  As a result, it will help me to lose weight . I should ignore  the Sparkpeople nutrition suggestion . am  I correct?

d) I do not understand about the grading of food A, B, C ect... Can you please explain if you know the meaning of it.

This is my second week of diet and I am not feeling hungry at all . I am not craving rice or sweet .  I am drinking vanilla Soymilk daily ( around 80z) . It has 7gr of sugar in a a half gallon size . Does it still  a lot of sugar?  I wonder Is it the reason why I do not have any craving for sweet stuff 

Please advise and thank you


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## laurac260 (Jul 15, 2014)

Rose Pink said:


> I don't know when or which university you attended but I am sad to hear it wasn't up to par.  Mine (back in the early to mid 70s) was quite thorough and emphasized a well-rounded approach to both people's behavior and scientific research.



Um, yea, that's NOT what I said.  Not at all.


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## laurac260 (Jul 15, 2014)

Rose Pink said:


> I remember when Ensure first became available.  It didn't come in flavors.  We had to add flavor packets to the product.  Still, it was like a godsend in that it was a uniform product that could be stored until needed, unlike blenderized formulas that clogged feeding tubes (or tasted nasty) and had to be used within hours before they spoiled.  Fast forward these many decades and we have so many different formulas for different needs: renal, hepatic, COPD, high protein, high fiber, low fiber, isotonic, not to mention the elemental products for malabsorption syndromes.  These can be life saving products when used appropriately.  Unfortunately, I think we have come to depend on them too much and serve them almost as a knee-jerk reaction.  Current trends are to go back to whole foods but that takes time, preparation and the staffing to do it correctly and monitor acceptance.  IOW, dollars that are not budgeted into nutrition care.  (And the CEOS make million dollar paychecks.  Yeah, I get a little angry.)
> 
> If your mom was being offered Ensure or Boost products, it was likely she was not eating sufficient foods otherwise--and that was an easier way for her to get nutrients.  For people who are weak it can be much easier to drink than to chew. (Or, was she on a liquid diet for some reason?)  That can be a very tricky situation.  Was she not eating because she didn't like the food or because she had no appetite?  I am not going to make excuses for hospital food only to say that given enough money and enough personnel it can be done.  Some of the best meals I had were from a hospital where I worked.  The food service manager was buddies with the hospital administration and had a large budget.  Nowadays, that type of attention is not given to the food service departments.  And it shows.



She was underweight.  Yes.  But the ingredients in boost?  The first ingredients are water, sugar, corn syrup, milk protein (ok, that's something), canola oil (avoid this like the plague), and soy protein isolate (soy is a substandard protein).  One decent protein, one substandard protein, an oil invented in a lab, and 47% of the calories from sugar.  She couldn't stand the stuff.  I would say to her "mom, you need the calories.."  Then I read the label and said, "um, no, never mind, just ask for FOOD."


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## Rose Pink (Jul 16, 2014)

DavidnRobin said:


> Rose Pink - We agree for the most part - or at least the end result (better nutrition).  My prior point was that when it comes to metabolism and pharmacology (my profession, but I did get a degree in chemistry) - that all calories are indeed not the same - it is not splitting hairs or 'Pop Science'.  Using an example of a bomb calorimeter for calorie measure (comparing amount of butter and broccoli per calorie) is misleading because it gives it does not take into account many other factors that affect physiology (not to mention psychology...) .....


Yes, we do agree on most things, just not on terminology.  I don't think my examples were misleading at all since I discussed that various substrates utilize different metabolic pathways, etc etc.  I covered that.

All I am saying is that a calorie is a unit of measurement, nothing more nothing less.  That measurement is defined as the amount of energy required to raise one kilogram of water one degree Celsius.  To say foods provide different types of calories is taking liberty with the very definition.  There aren't types of calories, only types of foods.

You wouldn't say that a gram of aspirin weighs differently than a gram of levodopa.  Even though the two drugs have very different properties and are metabolized differently, a gram is still a gram is still a gram.  The definition of a gram does not change.  It is a set definition, just as a calorie is a set definition.


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## Rose Pink (Jul 16, 2014)

laurac260 said:


> Um, yea, that's NOT what I said.  Not at all.



My sincere apology.  When you said that what you learned from your program was "categorically wrong," I took that to mean that the information taught was in error, meaning it did not present accurately the scientific knowledge of the day.  So, I don't know what you meant.


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## Rose Pink (Jul 16, 2014)

laurac260 said:


> She was underweight.  Yes.  But the ingredients in boost?  The first ingredients are water, sugar, corn syrup, milk protein (ok, that's something), canola oil (avoid this like the plague), and soy protein isolate (soy is a substandard protein).  One decent protein, one substandard protein, an oil invented in a lab, and 47% of the calories from sugar.  She couldn't stand the stuff.  I would say to her "mom, you need the calories.."  Then I read the label and said, "um, no, never mind, just ask for FOOD."



Boost and similar formulas are meant to provide as much energy and other nutrients in as little volume as feasible for people who are unable or unwilling to consume larger amounts of food.  That means concentrated, isolated substrates such as sugars and oils and vitamins and minerals.  Some formulas contain other types of fats such as medium chain triglycerides or more complex carbohydrates.  Still, they are all engineered products generally meant to supplement a diet that is deficient in energy, protein, or other nutrients.  They are meant to slide down easily with little effort in the way of chewing.  They are not generally meant to be the sole source of nutrition for prolonged periods of time--but rather just to get past an acute phase.  Some people do supplement with them for years and even that is better than starvation.  

That your mother didn't like the taste and wouldn't drink it should have prompted an intervention to find something she did like and could tolerate.  This just underscores the lack of funding and attention given to nutrition services.  Could she have been given a blenderized smoothie made with whole foods?  Sure, if the dietary department had the staff to make it and nursing had the staff to make sure she received it.  (It was one of my frustrations that the kitchen would send up the snacks--or "nourishments" as they are sometimes called--but nursing would not remember, or was too busy, to deliver them to the patients.)

As I mentioned before, Ensure and its copycats have become easy fallbacks when there is not the staff nor the dollars to do something more creative and healthful.  

Blame the CEOs and the shareholders.  The dietitians, the nurses, the doctors would all like to see a better system but as long as we run healthcare for profit, dollars will come before people.  Yes, I am bitter.  It is just plain wrong, evil and immoral to profit from other people's misery.


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## Rose Pink (Jul 16, 2014)

uop1497 said:


> I have a couple questions regarding counting calorie for the food I cook it myself
> 
> a) I want to cook my own food. However, I am having a problem to calculate the calorie in total . What you are normally do
> 
> ...



Spark People has a recipe calculator.  Just input the ingredients and it will do the calculations for you.  It will calculate values for the total recipe so when you input your portion into your meal, just put in the fraction of the recipe that you ate.  Spark People will automatically adjust the numbers for you.  You can save your recipes so that you don't have to enter them each time.  

How many calories, protein, etc you need depends on your age, gender, height, weight and any factors such as pregnancy, breastfeeding, and some injuries such as broken bones, burns, etc.  Spark People (and other trackers) will calculate your energy needs for you if  you input your height, weight, gender etc.  The programs will walk you through it.  Usually they will calculate a resting energy expenditure multiplied by a factor for whatever activity level you say is typical for you.  If you google "Harris Benedict equation" you will get an idea of how this works.  There are many different formulas for calculating energy needs.  Harris Benedict is only one of them.  They all have limitations and should be used as guidelines only.  If you are not losing weight and are certain  you are accurately following your meal plan, then drop some calories and see if that helps (or increase your activity level or both).  If you are losing weight too quickly and don't feel well, then increase your caloric intake slightly.  My advice is not to get so caught up in a specific number that you get frustrated.  Some days you will eat more and some days you will eat less.  It is the average over several days that is important.  A weight loss of one to two pounds a week is generally considered safe.  Some people think that is too slow and they want to lose alot in a short period of time.  Consider this, at one to two pounds a week, you will lose 52 to 104 pounds in a year.  That's good work!  A year comes and goes so quickly.  As a general rule, I do not recommend eating less than 1200 Kcals a day.  It is difficult to get enough vitamins and minerals on less food than that. 

As far as SP telling you to eat more calories to make up for your walking exercise, I am not familiar with that.  I have not had SP suggest that to me.  I haven't used the program in awhile so maybe something has changed.  I'll need to check into that.  But, no, I would not suggest eating more to make up for your exercise unless you are feeling weak and lethargic from too little food.  An energy (calorie) deficit is what  you want in order to lose weight.  Still, you want sufficient food and nutrients that you don't become sick.  

I am not sure what you mean about the grading of food A,B,C.  Are you talking about produce?  Perhaps this site will answer your question. http://www.pickyourown.org/USDAGradeGuidelines.htm  If  not, please clarify which foods you are referring to.

As to the sugar in your soymilk, 7 gms per half gallon (64 ounces) equates to almost 9 grams (a little over two teaspoons) in the 80 ounces you are drinking.  (If I did the math correctly.  It's very late. LOL)  I would not be concerned with that small amount.  That is only about 3% of your 1200 calories.  Just keep in mind that added sugars in other foods will contribute to the total so just be wise in your choices.  It isn't about any one food but rather the total composition of all the foods you eat in a day.  If it makes you feel any better, I recently bought a half gallon of almond milk with added protein and fiber because I had a coupon for it.  The label proclaims it has 5 grams of protein and 5 grams of fiber per cup (240 ml) as well as 50% more calcium than dairy milk.  I didn't bother to read more than that.  I had a coupon.  I was curious.  I am trying to increase fiber.  When I took the first swallow I nearly spit it out.  Oh my, what a surprise!  It was cloyingly sweet.  I looked at the label.  Cane sugar (sucrose) is listed as the second ingredient. I won't be buying that product again.  LOL  It has 12 grams of sugar per 8 ounces or 120 per 80 ounces compared with the 9 in your 80 ounces of soymilk.  I'd say you are doing okay.

Edited:  Okay reread your post and I am not sure you said 80 ounces of soy milk or 8 ounces.  If it is only 8 ounces then you are consuming even less sugar.  Either way, no problem.

Second edit: Okay it is now the morning after.  I was really tired last night and then my internet went out.  Of course you didn't mean you were drinking 80 ounces of soy milk.  That would put your calorie level much higher than what you are consuming.  Again, my apologies.  I was frazzled last night.  I do need a clarification on the sugar content.  When you came up with the number 7 gms per half gallon, were you looking at the nutrition label on a half gallon carton?  The nutrition info is given per serving (which is specified) and not for the entire package--unless it is a single-serve item.  My guess is that it is 7 gms per 8 oz as 8 oz is a typical serving size for milks.  Could you please clarify that for me?  Even at 7 gms in 8 oz you will be okay because you are only consuming one cup per day.  Again, it is the total meal intake not any one particular item (unless that item is really loaded with sugar such as a soft drink, etc.)  If  you are really concerned about it, look for a product that has less sugar.  It seems there are so many varieties with higher and lower caloric values, more or less protein, sugar, fat.  Find one that you feel good about.  If you have the time and want to be entirely in control of the ingredients, you can make your own soymilk.


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## laurac260 (Jul 16, 2014)

Rose Pink said:


> My sincere apology.  When you said that what you learned from your program was "categorically wrong," I took that to mean that the information taught was in error, meaning it did not present accurately the scientific knowledge of the day.  So, I don't know what you meant.



Yes, I DID mean that what was taught was categorically wrong.  That does not translate to "my college was below par."  It was taught with the knowledge of the time, which was mid 90's understanding of nutrition.  The chemistry is still the same, however, nutrition _understanding_ changes.  Knowledge changes, and I think we are seeing this now with nutrition.    Some are just slow to catch up, and keep regurgitating the same old facts.  I used to be stuck in that mindset too.  Too often we assume that what we learned 20-30-40 years ago still holds true.  Oftentimes it just doesn't.


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## laurac260 (Jul 16, 2014)

Rose Pink said:


> Boost and similar formulas are meant to provide as much energy and other nutrients in as little volume as feasible for people who are unable or unwilling to consume larger amounts of food.  That means concentrated, isolated substrates such as sugars and oils and vitamins and minerals.  Some formulas contain other types of fats such as medium chain triglycerides or more complex carbohydrates.  Still, they are all engineered products generally meant to supplement a diet that is deficient in energy, protein, or other nutrients.  They are meant to slide down easily with little effort in the way of chewing.  They are not generally meant to be the sole source of nutrition for prolonged periods of time--but rather just to get past an acute phase.  Some people do supplement with them for years and even that is better than starvation.
> 
> That your mother didn't like the taste and wouldn't drink it should have prompted an intervention to find something she did like and could tolerate.  This just underscores the lack of funding and attention given to nutrition services.  Could she have been given a blenderized smoothie made with whole foods?  Sure, if the dietary department had the staff to make it and nursing had the staff to make sure she received it.  (It was one of my frustrations that the kitchen would send up the snacks--or "nourishments" as they are sometimes called--but nursing would not remember, or was too busy, to deliver them to the patients.)
> 
> ...



We can blame CEO's and shareholders.  We can lay blame on the Big Pharm that teaches us "there is a pill for that."  My mom was on so many pills, all prescribed by the docs, it was insane how many pills she was on, yet she just got worse.  I don't blame the docs for her issues, she self created many of them, and she also didn't do much to help herself.  But I think also, we are sliding down a slippery slope when we think healthcare is a pill.  And, if you have a side effect from that pill, here's another pill to help with that, too.  

Healthcare is food.  Pills are sick care.   How do we fix the mindset that if you aren't well, you take a pill and you will be better?  How do we get doctors to go back to treating patients, rather than just medicating them away?  How do we get Big Pharm to stop incentivizing doctors to push their latest drug?   

Medicine has become big business.  Nearly every major city it seems (1st-3rd tier)  are either building new hospitals or adding on to their existing hospitals, and yet, people aren't getting any better.  It seems they are just getting sicker.  But, there's a pill for that, right?  I hear ya.  I guess I'm bitter too.


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## Rose Pink (Jul 16, 2014)

laurac260 said:


> We can blame CEO's and shareholders.  We can lay blame on the Big Pharm that teaches us "there is a pill for that."  My mom was on so many pills, all prescribed by the docs, it was insane how many pills she was on, yet she just got worse.  I don't blame the docs for her issues, she self created many of them, and she also didn't do much to help herself.  But I think also, we are sliding down a slippery slope when we think healthcare is a pill.  And, if you have a side effect from that pill, here's another pill to help with that, too.
> 
> Healthcare is food.  Pills are sick care.   How do we fix the mindset that if you aren't well, you take a pill and you will be better?  How do we get doctors to go back to treating patients, rather than just medicating them away?  How do we get Big Pharm to stop incentivizing doctors to push their latest drug?
> 
> Medicine has become big business.  Nearly every major city it seems (1st-3rd tier)  are either building new hospitals or adding on to their existing hospitals, and yet, people aren't getting any better.  It seems they are just getting sicker.  But, there's a pill for that, right?  I hear ya.  I guess I'm bitter too.


I agree with you.  As Hippocrates said, "Let food be thy medicine and medicine thy food."  That's not to say I am against all pharmacology.  Antibiotics can be life-saving.  But the way we abuse them is life-threatening.  I have a young friend who is a pharmacist.  He is as frustrated with the system as I am.  It's taken a long time to weave this straight jacket we are in.  

I've had some great doctors who do try to educate but time is money and the time it takes is not reimbursed by insurances.  Not many insurance companies will cover nutrition care and counseling.  Not many people can or are willing to pay out-of-pocket.  And lifestyle change is not easy for most folks.  Our society has become one that demands instant gratification.  Drive-thru fast foods.  Drive-thru banking.  Drive-thru pharmacies.  Drive-by shootings.  We are cocooned in our cars and our houses.

For 40 years I have advocated for a whole food (real food) diet.  And yet, when I am exhausted, which is most of the time, I reach for whatever is easy.  And I know better.  What about the millions who don't know better?  

There is no lack of good science on the web and in the schools.  Unfortunately, there is also a lot of other stuff (put out by people who are selling something--that should be a red flag) and people just don't want to take the time, or don't know how, to differentiate and sort through the massive amounts of information.

As for Big Pharm, it is big money.  It can and has done alot of good.  Unfortunately, greedy people have done a lot of harm with it as well.

I don't have the answers as to how to change the behavior of an entire society that wants a quick and easy fix.  We don't even spell out complete words and sentences when texting or posting on the www.  We are always in such a hurry.

And, I need to hurry off because SYTYCD has started.  :hysterical:


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## Tia (Jul 17, 2014)

Agree it's sad re society and eating habits. We had neighbors when my kids were young that every night the mom would drive by  where kids were playing in the area and get her kids fast food order. Do not think she cooked anything, and she didn't work out of the home either.


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## ace2000 (Jul 17, 2014)

Has anyone seen the movie Fed Up yet?  I was going to try to watch that one.

*New Look At The Movie The Food Industry Doesn't Want You To See*

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/04/10/fed-up-poster_n_5127876.html


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## uop1497 (Jul 17, 2014)

Thank you everyone who chime in to help me on my weight loss this time. I am serious to get back in shape and to lose all extra pound .

Here is the link of what I find the letter A for the food I searched
http://caloriecount.about.com/calories-silk-soymilk-vanilla-i85007

I just join the Sparkpeople web not long ago. I am learning how to navigate around and to use the website. 

My plan is to lose 65 lbs to be healthy again . I also want to eat right . I will be very happy if I can lose 1 lbs per week . So far, I have not lost any pound yet . I am begin my third week now and I just wonder if I am over eat again .

I drink 8oz ( 2 cups) of soy milk daily . I get the sugar from the label listing on the soy milk carton .

In the past, I went on diet but did not know how to calculate my in take calorie correctly. Therefore, I failed my plan over and over again.  This time, with all advice and the calculation to track all my food in take daily , I hope I can achieve my goal.  My small goal to the year end is to lose 10- 20 lbs

By the way, does anyone know any good brand of exercise shoes . I need recommendation for a good pair of shoes that won't hurt my feet . Thank you


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## Kel (Jul 17, 2014)

uop1497 - Please see the following link for help in calculating your daily calories for weight loss:  

http://caloriecount.about.com/tools/calories-goal

Good luck in weight loss and maintenance.


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## e.bram (Jul 17, 2014)

Dr. Dean Ornish diet. Lost 60 lbs and am keeping it off.


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## laurac260 (Jul 18, 2014)

uop1497 said:


> Thank you everyone who chime in to help me on my weight loss this time. I am serious to get back in shape and to lose all extra pound .
> 
> Here is the link of what I find the letter A for the food I searched
> http://caloriecount.about.com/calories-silk-soymilk-vanilla-i85007
> ...



I highly recommend you get your hands on this book, as a starter.  http://www.amazon.com/Maximized-Nut...d=1405686363&sr=1-1&keywords=maximized+living


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## bogey21 (Jul 18, 2014)

Don't make it too confusing.  I have gone from 195 to 169 by cutting out alcohol, ice cream, most snacks, French fries and other fried foods.  I have also cut back portions of meat, sometimes substituting fish.  For lunch I often have a 6" Subway (remember Jarad).

George

PS At this point I am still slowly losing weight but so slowly it is hardly noticeable.


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## Patri (Jul 18, 2014)

bogey21 said:


> PS At this point I am still slowly losing weight but so slowly it is hardly noticeable.



But if you are not gaining, that is what matters.


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## uop1497 (Oct 2, 2014)

To update: 

I am loosing 20 lbs already . Still working toward to loose another 20 lbs. Thank everyone for all weight loss tips .


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## Passepartout (Oct 2, 2014)

bogey21 said:


> ...... cutting out alcohol, ice cream, most snacks, French fries and other fried foods.



I was on a diet like that once. Worst 2 hours of my life!!


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## HatTrick (Oct 2, 2014)

Passepartout said:


> I was on a diet like that once. Worst 2 hours of my life!!



:hysterical:


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## bogey21 (Oct 2, 2014)

I seem to have leveled off at 168 pounds, down from 195.  Sticking to the no alcohol, no ice cream, etc. eating protocol has not been a problem.

George


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## Patri (Oct 2, 2014)

Passepartout said:


> I was on a diet like that once. Worst 2 hours of my life!!




Come on Brian. We have to get a 'like' button or something similar.


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