# Points deposit feature finality?



## Railman83 (Jan 22, 2018)

Does anyone know for sure whether points deposited are used first in the use year they are moved to?

I remember Ron had a bucket theory but not tested.   

I’ve read elsewhere that points deposited are used first.  

Does anyone know for sure?


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## Braindead (Jan 22, 2018)

Railman83 said:


> Does anyone know for sure whether points deposited are used first in the use year they are moved to?
> 
> I remember Ron had a bucket theory but not tested.
> 
> ...


When you deposit the 2018 points into 2019 or 2020. The points will go into the same points bucket as your 2019 or 2020 use year points.
You will not see a new points bucket created for the deposited points.
Example:
You have 500,000 2019 use year points.
You deposit 250,000 2018 points into 2019
You will then see 750,000 2019 use year points. Only one points bucket per year from now forward.

It hasn’t been completely tested yet. But it seems that you could make 500,000 point ARP for 2019 and still deposit the 250,000 2019 points that you deposited in my example into 2020 or 2021.

Points really do seem blind as to what points get used for what.
I and others have made ARP reservations with credit pool points since  Voyager was launched.


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## Railman83 (Jan 22, 2018)

My concern, using your example is what happens between Jan 1 and Mar 30 in 2019.

Let’s say I make 500,000 in standard reservations.  I have 250,000 left.   If they use regular use year first, I am left with 250k of points deposit from 2018 that I cannot push forward.  If they use PD points first I can push the 2019 points forward.

If I knew they used reg year first for sure I’d push 250k before I made first reservation and hope I guessed right about needing 500k reservations.

I am retiring in 3 years and plan on loading up the first couple of years with accumulated PD.   Knowing this is huge for how I do this.




Braindead said:


> When you deposit the 2018 points into 2019 or 2020. The points will go into the same points bucket as your 2019 or 2020 use year points.
> You will not see a new points bucket created for the deposited points.
> Example:
> You have 500,000 2019 use year points.
> ...


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## Braindead (Jan 22, 2018)

I don’t have any 2018 points to test the system. But so far the following seem to apply:
You have 500,000 regular use year points
The system is loaded with your 500,000 point ARP allocations
The system is loaded to allow up to 500,000 points a year for points deposit.

If a VIP deposited 2017 points into 2018 they could test the system by making an ARP reservation for 2018. Then see if all 2018 points are still available for deposit into 2019 or 2020


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## Braindead (Jan 22, 2018)

As stated above. I have no 2018 regular use year points. But I still have some ARP allocation left for 2018 and the system will let me make a 2018 ARP reservation for Christmas.


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## Melder (Jan 25, 2018)

Braindead said:


> When you deposit the 2018 points into 2019 or 2020. The points will go into the same points bucket as your 2019 or 2020 use year points.
> You will not see a new points bucket created for the deposited points.
> Example:
> You have 500,000 2019 use year points.
> ...



Today I deposited my 2018 points into 2020.  The deposited points did not go into the same points bucket as my 2020 use year points.  I now have two 2020 points buckets. One starting Jan. 1 and the other starting Jan. 2.  Which bucket gets used first?  I'm guessing regular use year points (Jan 1)


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## Braindead (Jan 26, 2018)

Melder said:


> Today I deposited my 2018 points into 2020.  The deposited points did not go into the same points bucket as my 2020 use year points.  I now have two 2020 points buckets. One starting Jan. 1 and the other starting Jan. 2.  Which bucket gets used first?  I'm guessing regular use year points (Jan 1)
> 
> View attachment 5541


You and I definitely recieved different outcomes. I did my points deposit before the last announced shutdown.


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## bnoble (Jan 26, 2018)

Melder said:


> Which bucket gets used first?


As I understand it, it no longer matters.


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## Melder (Jan 26, 2018)

bnoble said:


> As I understand it, it no longer matters.



I called Owner Relations and was escalated to Owner Care.  I was told the same thing.  I'm skeptical, but time will tell.  Two quotes from Owner Care on this call....

1) "Regular use year points are used first, than Points Deposit regardless if they are in one or two buckets"
2) "Points are points.  If I book a vacation in 2019 for 2020 and use all of my regular use year points, but only half of my points deposit.  Come Jan. 1, 2020 I will be able to points deposit the remaining points up to my yearly points allotment.  The system doesn't look at what type of points they are.  They only look at the yearly allotment for points deposit."


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## bnoble (Jan 26, 2018)

That's my understanding. In particular quote #2 also applies to ARP and related things as well.


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## wjappraise (Jan 26, 2018)

Melder said:


> I called Owner Relations and was escalated to Owner Care.  I was told the same thing.  I'm skeptical, but time will tell.  Two quotes from Owner Care on this call....
> 
> 1) "Regular use year points are used first, than Points Deposit regardless if they are in one or two buckets"
> 2) "Points are points.  If I book a vacation in 2019 for 2020 and use all of my regular use year points, but only half of my points deposit.  Come Jan. 1, 2020 I will be able to points deposit the remaining points up to my yearly points allotment.  The system doesn't look at what type of points they are.  They only look at the yearly allotment for points deposit."



Thanks for sharing.  It's nice to have this written record of it as well.  Call me cynical but I don't know that I believe Windham's claims.   I am hoping to use up my credit pool points first. My fear is: if my regular use points are used and only credit pool points are remaining I will not be able to move those forward to the following year.  

I am going so far as to make reservations with my regular use points that I will cancel after I've used up all of my credit pool points.


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## Railman83 (Jan 26, 2018)

This seems pretty conclusive to answer my question.


Melder said:


> Today I deposited my 2018 points into 2020.  The deposited points did not go into the same points bucket as my 2020 use year points.  I now have two 2020 points buckets. One starting Jan. 1 and the other starting Jan. 2.  Which bucket gets used first?  I'm guessing regular use year points (Jan 1)
> 
> View attachment 5541


 se


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## paxsarah (Jan 26, 2018)

wjappraise said:


> Thanks for sharing.  It's nice to have this written record of it as well.  Call me cynical but I don't know that I believe Windham's claims.   I am hoping to use up my credit pool points first. My fear is: if my regular use points are used and only credit pool points are remaining I will not be able to move those forward to the following year.
> 
> I am going so far as to make reservations with my regular use points that I will cancel after I've used up all of my credit pool points.



I think this is smart, because in my limited experience legacy credit pool points have one foot each in the new and old systems. Credit pooled points seem to be able to be used for ARP in they way outlined for the new system, but in terms of depositing (in my case, to RCI rather than points deposit) they could not be used for deposit, even though I hadn’t used all of my regular UY points for things limited to regular UY points. The old style credit pooled points behaved in the old bucket manner when it came to RCI deposit.


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## weemoeway (Jan 26, 2018)

Melder said:


> 2) "Points are points.  If I book a vacation in 2019 for 2020 and use all of my regular use year points, but only half of my points deposit.  Come Jan. 1, 2020 I will be able to points deposit the remaining points up to my yearly points allotment.  The system doesn't look at what type of points they are.  They only look at the yearly allotment for points deposit."



So, if #2 is accurate, you can theoretically deposit points from 2018 into 2019, then later any of those leftover into 2020, ad infinitum?


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## hjsweet2002 (Jan 26, 2018)

My understanding is that you will not be able to deposit more than the actual points allocated for that year.  So basically you are using up your points deposited forward first.


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## Melder (Jan 26, 2018)

weemoeway said:


> So, if #2 is accurate, you can theoretically deposit points from 2018 into 2019, then later any of those leftover into 2020, ad infinitum?





hjsweet2002 said:


> My understanding is that you will not be able to deposit more than the actual points allocated for that year.



Correct.  That's what I was told.   You can deposit up to your yearly points allotment. The system doesn't look at what type of points they are.



hjsweet2002 said:


> So basically you are using up your points deposited forward first.



In theory that's the logical way to look at it.  In my case I have two buckets (one starting Jan. 1 and the other starting Jan. 2.), so I know for a fact which points are use year and which are points deposit.


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## Braindead (Jan 26, 2018)

Melder said:


> In my case I have two buckets (one starting Jan. 1 and the other starting Jan. 2.), so I know for a fact which points are use year and which are points deposit.


Your deposited points didn’t go where they are supposed to. I would have a ticket opened and get the points put in your 2020 use year.

From last years supplement:
You may deposit your points into your next  Use Year or two Use Years from now.

That didn’t happen and I wouldn’t count on a promise over the phone to hold up 2 years from now. Make Owner Care move the points to your regular 2020 use year where they belong.


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## Braindead (Jan 26, 2018)

wjappraise said:


> I am hoping to use up my credit pool points first. My fear is: if my regular use points are used and only credit pool points are remaining I will not be able to move those forward to the following year.
> 
> I am going so far as to make reservations with my regular use points that I will cancel after I've used up all of my credit pool points.


Credit pool points aren’t eligible for the point deposit option.


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## wjappraise (Jan 26, 2018)

Braindead said:


> Credit pool points aren’t eligible for the point deposit option.



Good point. 

What I meant was "points I had deposited from 2017 into 2018."   They also show one day different from my regular use points.  And that makes me suspicious that they are placed in a different bucket despite Wyndham's claims.


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## Braindead (Jan 26, 2018)

Am I the only one that deposited points and they actually ended up with my regular use year points ? No new points bucket ?


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## Braindead (Jan 26, 2018)

wjappraise said:


> Good point.
> 
> What I meant was "points I had deposited from 2017 into 2018."   They also show one day different from my regular use points.  And that makes me suspicious that they are placed in a different bucket despite Wyndham's claims.


That one day off and the supplement states deposited points expire at the end of year would make me very suspicious also. First I would try to get owner care to put the points in the right points bucket. If they refuse I would atleast want an email from owner care stating that the dosited points are eligible to be deposited again because they weren’t put in with my regular use year points.


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## Braindead (Jan 26, 2018)

Melder said:


> 2) "Points are points.  If I book a vacation in 2019 for 2020 and use all of my regular use year points, but only half of my points deposit.  Come Jan. 1, 2020 I will be able to points deposit the remaining points up to my yearly points allotment.  The system doesn't look at what type of points they are.  They only look at the yearly allotment for points deposit."


Agree 100%. But this one day off stuff and a different points bucket makes no sense!!


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## Baby Jane (Jan 26, 2018)

Well mine are all in one bucket but I put last years into 2018. I was figuring I would do that every year. I know it says in rules points can only be moved once. I am sure by now doing the 2nd the ones on the 1st will be used first. Wyndhams way of not letting us use all our points or forcing us to use RCI again


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## north (Jan 27, 2018)

Maybe it's because 2020 is a leap year?
This could be Wyndham's algorithm:
Start date = Dec 31 - 365 days


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## Melder (Jan 27, 2018)

north said:


> Maybe it's because 2020 is a leap year?
> This could be Wyndham's algorithm:
> Start date = Dec 31 - 365 days



Unfortunately it also happened when wjappraise deposited from 2017 into 2018...



wjappraise said:


> What I meant was "points I had deposited from 2017 into 2018."   They also show one day different from my regular use points.  And that makes me suspicious that they are placed in a different bucket despite Wyndham's claims.



wjappraise have you tried to make a reservation.  Which bucket did it pull from?  Jan 1 or Jan 2?


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## Braindead (Jan 27, 2018)

wjappraise said:


> What I meant was "points I had deposited from 2017 into 2018."   They also show one day different from my regular use points.  And that makes me suspicious that they are placed in a different bucket despite Wyndham's claims.


Try going to the point deposit and click on use year. It will show if you have more than one points bucket that are elegible to deposit.
See if your deposited points bucket show and what happens if you click on it ?
If you can Wyndham is wanting us to pay twice if we have points left in more than one bucket


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## Baby Jane (Jan 27, 2018)

If they are using seperate buckets you will not be able to deposit the ones that are deposited points. The rules were clear on that. You can only move the same points 1x. I figured they want us to use them or lose them


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## Braindead (Jan 27, 2018)

Baby Jane said:


> If they are using seperate buckets you will not be able to deposit the ones that are deposited points. The rules were clear on that. You can only move the same points 1x. I figured they want us to use them or lose them


Anyone who deposited 2017 points into 2018 can be our test. I’m sure the system will still only allow 1x.
I’m not jumping to a conclusion until wjappraise or someone else gives us an answer.
When I go to points deposit it is outlined red stating I have zero points available. I then click on use year and it shows different points bucket that are currently available for the point deposit feature.

I want to know if their 2017 points deposited 2018 points bucket shows up


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## wjappraise (Jan 27, 2018)

Melder said:


> Unfortunately it also happened when wjappraise deposited from 2017 into 2018...
> 
> 
> 
> wjappraise have you tried to make a reservation.  Which bucket did it pull from?  Jan 1 or Jan 2?



It pulled from January 1 bucket.  And I checked to see about depositing 2018 points into 2019.  The website limited the number of points available for deposit to those in January 1 bucket.  So I have booked bogus reservations toward the end of the year with my January 1 points.  Once I use all of the January 2 points I will cancel those bogus reservations and repopulate the January 1 bucket.  Lot of work extra work.


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## Melder (Jan 27, 2018)

wjappraise said:


> It pulled from January 1 bucket.  And I checked to see about depositing 2018 points into 2019.  The website limited the number of points available for deposit to those in January 1 bucket.  So I have booked bogus reservations toward the end of the year with my January 1 points.  Once I use all of the January 2 points I will cancel those bogus reservations and repopulate the January 1 bucket.  Lot of work extra work.


That's not good.  You have proved what they told me is wrong.

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## wjappraise (Jan 27, 2018)

Melder said:


> That's not good.  You have proved what they told me is wrong


Maybe just for a me.  I seem to have a special place reserved for me in Wyndham Hell.  It looks a bit like Dante's Inferno.  

I still can't get ARP for my Bonnet Creek contracts.  Seems a simple fix, but Wyndham can't or won't do it.  All my other contracts work fine with ARP.  And my Bonnet creek PR contract works fine with ARP.  But not the other four BC contracts.


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## Braindead (Jan 27, 2018)

wjappraise said:


> It pulled from January 1 bucket.  And I checked to see about depositing 2018 points into 2019.  The website limited the number of points available for deposit to those in January 1 bucket.  So I have booked bogus reservations toward the end of the year with my January 1 points.  Once I use all of the January 2 points I will cancel those bogus reservations and repopulate the January 1 bucket.  Lot of work extra work.


Just to be perfectly clear.
When you go to the Deposit Points it says
Review available points 
You see Jan 2018-Dec 2018 window or whatever use year you have
If you click on that window. No other points bucket shows up that you could pick?

If there isn’t another choice I would call owner care to find out why your deposited points didn’t go into the same points bucket as your regular use year points.


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## raygo123 (Jan 28, 2018)

Braindead said:


> Just to be perfectly clear.
> When you go to the Deposit Points it says
> Review available points
> You see Jan 2018-Dec 2018 window or whatever use year you have
> ...


Just because you don't see something doesn't mean it doesn't exist.  The new system knows if your points are ARP or not, as well as pooled.

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## raygo123 (Jan 28, 2018)

Wait, ifyour all CWA, and try to use a RARP at a CWA resort guess what, it will not work since they are all your home resorts.

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## Baby Jane (Jan 28, 2018)

Mine are all in one but wonder if they still wont let me deposit leftover this year since they included points from last. You almost have to go through the whole process to see if it works and its way too early in the year to deposit as we do several late last minute vacations.


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## wjappraise (Jan 28, 2018)

Braindead said:


> Just to be perfectly clear.
> When you go to the Deposit Points it says
> Review available points
> You see Jan 2018-Dec 2018 window or whatever use year you have
> ...



Correct.  Only one - the January 1 point bucket shows available to deposit to future year.  

They've "opened a ticket."   Let the celebration begin!


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## wjappraise (Jan 28, 2018)

Baby Jane said:


> Mine are all in one but wonder if they still wont let me deposit leftover this year since they included points from last. You almost have to go through the whole process to see if it works and its way too early in the year to deposit as we do several late last minute vacations.



You can try it without completing it.  That way you will know how many points are available for deposit.  

My guess is you will be able to deposit all points in the January 1 bucket.   

Let us know what happens.


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## Braindead (Jan 28, 2018)

raygo123 said:


> Wait, ifyour all CWA, and try to use a RARP at a CWA resort guess what, it will not work since they are all your home resorts.
> 
> Sent from my LGLK430 using Tapatalk


No kidding!!


raygo123 said:


> Just because you don't see something doesn't mean it doesn't exist.  The new system knows if your points are ARP or not, as well as pooled.
> 
> Sent from my LGLK430 using Tapatalk


Thats wrong. I can make ARP reservations with credit pool points today


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## raygo123 (Jan 28, 2018)

Have you? Because i could not.  I wanted to book a 203,000 point ARP resevation with 200,000 CWApoints and 420,000 select and it said not enough points for the resevation.  So that must be a resale only benifits huh?  No kidding.

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## comicbookman (Jan 28, 2018)

raygo123 said:


> Have you? Because i could not.  I wanted to book a 203,000 point ARP resevation with 200,000 CWApoints and 420,000 select and it said not enough points for the resevation.  So that must be a resale only benifits huh?  No kidding.
> 
> Sent from my LGLK430 using Tapatalk



The new system does not care if your points are arp or not, it just knows how many arp points you are allowed to use.  So if I have a 200,000 point contract in Williamsburg, I can use up to 200,000 points for arp, regardless of whether those are my Williamsburg points or from another contract.  No buckets, just totals.


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## Braindead (Jan 28, 2018)

raygo123 said:


> Have you? Because i could not.  I wanted to book a 203,000 point ARP resevation with 200,000 CWApoints and 420,000 select and it said not enough points for the resevation.  So that must be a resale only benifits huh?  No kidding.
> 
> Sent from my LGLK430 using Tapatalk


You can easily answer your own question. Use the points calculator and enter the date your trying to make the reservation for.
If you have 200,000 CWA ARP allocation left you can make a CWA point reservation for upto 200,000
If you have an ARP allocation for select or UDI points you can make an ARP reservation for that single resort.
Your hung up on the points you own. The system doesn’t work that way
Use the points calculator to see what ARP limits you have left.
You never could mix ARP reservations before and you cannot now. Points calculator is very handy and easy to understand


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## raygo123 (Jan 28, 2018)

Braindead said:


> No kidding!!
> 
> Thats wrong. I can make ARP reservations with credit pool points today


Well then why did you say this,  if the system tells you how many ARP points you have to make the reservation?

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## raygo123 (Jan 28, 2018)

comicbookman said:


> The new system does not care if your points are arp or not, it just knows how many arp points you are allowed to use.  So if I have a 200,000 point contract in Williamsburg, I can use up to 200,000 points for arp, regardless of whether those are my Williamsburg points or from another contract.  No buckets, just totals.


Yes, nutyou cannot use "all" your points for ARP just CWA points.

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## Braindead (Jan 28, 2018)

raygo123 said:


> Yes, nutyou cannot use "all" your points for ARP just CWA points.
> 
> Sent from my LGLK430 using Tapatalk


Points calculator tells you ARP ALLOCATION left. And yes then you can use any points available for that ARP reservation even credit pool points if that’s the only points you have left to use.


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## raygo123 (Jan 28, 2018)

Braindead said:


> Points calculator tells you ARP ALLOCATION left. And yes then you can use any points available for that ARP reservation even credit pool points if that’s the only points you have left to use.


Well i went to the points calculator and put in February 16th.  It told me i have 1,032,000 points.  Below it said i have 420,000 points that i can use at national harbor at 10 to 13 months.  Also said that i can book 200,000 points to book at over 60 home resorts.  It did not mention my 8200 credit pool points or my deposit forward points of 406,000.  Why? Because you cannot use them for ARP.  I don't have any idea how you made ARP reservations with credit pool , or deposited forward points .  did you not say they would show up?

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## raygo123 (Jan 28, 2018)

Also why would anyone buy more tha 77,000 CWA points, when you can buy a select contract that has MFs at $4.00 per 1000?

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## Baby Jane (Jan 28, 2018)

wjappraise said:


> You can try it without completing it.  That way you will know how many points are available for deposit.
> 
> My guess is you will be able to deposit all points in the January 1 bucket.
> 
> Let us know what happens.


I guess it says all my points are availablr to deposit. Wonder if in future years that will change?


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## raygo123 (Jan 28, 2018)

Baby Jane said:


> I guess it says all my points are availablr to deposit. Wonder if in future years that will change?


Apparently you have not booked anything this year.  The question still remains that after your first reservation and you deposited forward points which remain?  All your use year points or use year less the reservation you just made.

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## Braindead (Jan 28, 2018)

raygo123 said:


> Well i went to the points calculator and put in February 16th.  It told me i have 1,032,000 points.  Below it said i have 420,000 points that i can use at national harbor at 10 to 13 months.  Also said that i can book 200,000 points to book at over 60 home resorts.  It did not mention my 8200 credit pool points or my deposit forward points of 406,000.  Why? Because you cannot use them for ARP.  I don't have any idea how you made ARP reservations with credit pool , or deposited forward points .  did you not say they would show up?
> 
> Sent from my LGLK430 using Tapatalk


Feb. 2018 or 2019 ? Points available are all points available on the date you selected including credit pool points and points deposited. If your looking at Feb. 2019 you will possibly see more points than all of your ARP allocation added together. Because the extra points will be from credit pool - deposited points - PIC points as well as converted weeks points


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## Braindead (Jan 28, 2018)

If your looking at Feb. 2018 it will only show points available because your not in the ARP window


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## raygo123 (Jan 28, 2018)

Braindead said:


> If your looking at Feb. 2018 it will only show points available because your not in the ARP window


Why would i put in 2018? We are talking ARP.  by the way you are wrong, there is no way you can book ARP with pooled or deposit forward points. Period. I have no idea how that could possibly work or everyone would own a select deed with for1 million points sanfrancisco and a 64,000 CWA! 

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## raygo123 (Jan 28, 2018)

Braindead said:


> Feb. 2018 or 2019 ? Points available are all points available on the date you selected including credit pool points and points deposited. If your looking at Feb. 2019 you will possibly see more points than all of your ARP allocation added together. Because the extra points will be from credit pool - deposited points - PIC points as well as converted weeks points


I already said that only the CWA and Select current year points show, not pooled or deposit forward points!  Since it is the ARP period the pooled and deposit forward points cannot be used.  Therefore deposit and credit pool points CANNOTBE USED FOR ARP.

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## Baby Jane (Jan 28, 2018)

raygo123 said:


> Apparently you have not booked anything this year.  The question still remains that after your first reservation and you deposited forward points which remain?  All your use year points or use year less the reservation you just made.
> 
> Sent from my LGLK430 using Tapatalk


I have booked several vacations. I guess I should have said all remaining points are noted as regular CWP and available for deposit.


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## raygo123 (Jan 28, 2018)

Baby Jane said:


> I have booked several vacations. I guess I should have said all remaining points are noted as regular CWP and available for deposit.


So did not have any pulled or deposit forward points?

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## paxsarah (Jan 28, 2018)

raygo123 said:


> I already said that only the CWA and Select current year points show, not pooled or deposit forward points!  Since it is the ARP period the pooled and deposit forward points cannot be used.  Therefore deposit and credit pool points CANNOTBE USED FOR ARP.
> 
> Sent from my LGLK430 using Tapatalk



Wrong. Here is my situation. I've used up all of my 2018 UY points. I have 70,000 points available to use right now that are old-school credit pooled with a date range of 12/20/16 to 12/20/19. Per your statement, I shouldn't be able to use those points for any ARP this year. However, if I plug 12/15/2018 into the points calendar (which is inside the ARP window), it shows that I have 52,500 points available to use for ARP at Myrtle Beach or 63,000 points available to use for ARP at Pagosa - because I haven't used any of my ARP allocation this UY.

If I go so far as starting a booking for Pagosa checking in on 12/15/18, it will let me (at least as far as the 15-minute hold). Because the ARP benefit is not tied to a bucket of points, but to a number of points allowed during a UY.


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## paxsarah (Jan 28, 2018)

paxsarah said:


> Wrong. Here is my situation. I've used up all of my 2018 UY points. I have 70,000 points available to use right now that are old-school credit pooled with a date range of 12/20/16 to 12/20/19. Per your statement, I shouldn't be able to use those points for any ARP this year. However, if I plug 12/15/2018 into the points calendar (which is inside the ARP window), it shows that I have 52,500 points available to use for ARP at Myrtle Beach or 63,000 points available to use for ARP at Pagosa - because I haven't used any of my ARP allocation this UY.
> 
> If I go so far as starting a booking for Pagosa checking in on 12/15/18, it will let me (at least as far as the 15-minute hold). Because the ARP benefit is not tied to a bucket of points, but to a number of points allowed during a UY.



However, as I've stated elsewhere, the same thing does not hold true for depositing (at least in terms of RCI). I deposited all but 10,500 of my regular 2018 UY points to RCI in spring 2017. The rest of the UY points (along with some pooled points) I used for a standard reservation. However, the system doesn't recognize that my account should have the right to deposit another 10,500 points to RCI if I wanted to - it shows as zero available to deposit.

It's treating old credit pooled points in the new way for ARP, but in the old way for RCI deposits (and I can't speak with personal experience to points deposit). That's why it's concerning to me to see that some people who have used points deposit have been given a separate bucket for the points deposited points, because the whole reason I was confident that deposits would work the way Wyndham said they were going to work is that they were going to be in one big bucket with the UY points.


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## raygo123 (Jan 28, 2018)

paxsarah said:


> Wrong. Here is my situation. I've used up all of my 2018 UY points. I have 70,000 points available to use right now that are old-school credit pooled with a date range of 12/20/16 to 12/20/19. Per your statement, I shouldn't be able to use those points for any ARP this year. However, if I plug 12/15/2018 into the points calendar (which is inside the ARP window), it shows that I have 52,500 points available to use for ARP at Myrtle Beach or 63,000 points available to use for ARP at Pagosa - because I haven't used any of my ARP allocation this UY.
> 
> If I go so far as starting a booking for Pagosa checking in on 12/15/18, it will let me (at least as far as the 15-minute hold). Because the ARP benefit is not tied to a bucket of points, but to a number of points allowed during a UY.


The way ot was explained to me is that the system will reajust the point usage toaccomidate the best use, but will never exceed the amount of UY points.  And if you can use any points for ARP why does it show 63,000 and not 70,000?

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## paxsarah (Jan 28, 2018)

raygo123 said:


> The way ot was explained to me is that the system will reajust the point usage toaccomidate the best use, but will never exceed the amount of UY points.  And if you can use any points for ARP why does it show 63,000 and not 70,000?
> 
> Sent from my LGLK430 using Tapatalk



I can only ARP up to the number of points I have at each location. That's 63k at Pagosa and 52.5k in Myrtle Beach. It doesn't matter which bucket the points come from, but the total number of points at each location can't be exceeded for ARP.


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## Braindead (Jan 28, 2018)

paxsarah said:


> I can only ARP up to the number of points I have at each location. That's 63k at Pagosa and 52.5k in Myrtle Beach. It doesn't matter which bucket the points come from, but the total number of points at each location can't be exceeded for ARP.


Thank you for stepping in here. I probably would’ve ended up with another warning or thrown out by now!!!
Raygo123 doesn’t seem to understand the ALLOCATION for ARP usage. The allocation is tied to points owned in contracts but you don’t actually have to use the points from those individual contracts to make an ARP reservation. The points can come from any points available at that time


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## raygo123 (Jan 28, 2018)

paxsarah said:


> I can only ARP up to the number of points I have at each location. That's 63k at Pagosa and 52.5k in Myrtle Beach. It doesn't matter which bucket the points come from, but the total number of points at each location can't be exceeded for ARP.





Braindead said:


> Thank you for stepping in here. I probably would’ve ended up with another warning or thrown out by now!!!


I think, paxsarah you cannot exceed the number of points in each bucket.given that you had 70,000 remainingg, and a max of 63,000 for ARP , if you would try to book a CWA resort with those all 70,000 points you could not because 7000 poonts are pooled polnts.  Select points are different than CWA in that you cannot exceed the number of points owned.   Also proves buckets exist.  It also confirms that the system is utilizing your points the best way possible.  
braindead is assuming that that those 70,000 points if he tried to book a reservation with 70,000 point, and even though he has used all his ARP points, or even if he has 63000 ARP points left that Wyndham would let him use all 70,000 points both ARP points and pooled points he could still book a reservation under ARP for all 70,000 point. That is what i am saying does not work,

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## Braindead (Jan 28, 2018)

raygo123 said:


> I think, paxsarah you cannot exceed the number of points in each bucket.given that you had 70,000 remainingg, and a max of 63,000 for ARP , if you would try to book a CWA resort with those all 70,000 points you could not because 7000 poonts are pooled polnts.  Select points are different than CWA in that you cannot exceed the number of points owned.   Also proves buckets exist.  It also confirms that the system is utilizing your points the best way possible.
> braindead is assuming that that those 70,000 points if he tried to book a reservation with 70,000 point, and even though he has used all his ARP points, or even if he has 63000 ARP points left that Wyndham would let him use all 70,000 points both ARP points and pooled points he could still book a reservation under ARP for all 70,000 point. That is what i am saying does not work,
> 
> Sent from my LGLK430 using Tapatalk


You can not exceed your ARP ALLOCATION PERIOD. I give up and waiving the white flag!!
Paxsarah can step in if she wishes but I’m done


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## paxsarah (Jan 28, 2018)

raygo123 said:


> braindead is assuming that that those 70,000 points if he tried to book a reservation with 70,000 point, and even though he has used all his ARP points, or even if he has 63000 ARP points left that Wyndham would let him use all 70,000 points both ARP points and pooled points he could still book a reservation under ARP for all 70,000 point. That is what i am saying does not work,



That’s not what he said.


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## raygo123 (Jan 28, 2018)

Braindead said:


> Points calculator tells you ARP ALLOCATION left. And yes then you can use any points available for that ARP reservation even credit pool points if that’s the only points you have left to use.





paxsarah said:


> That’s not what he said.


Ok

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## Braindead (Jan 28, 2018)

raygo123 said:


> Ok
> 
> Sent from my LGLK430 using Tapatalk


This is as simple as I can make it for you
If you credit pooled all your 2019 points before the new website
Now the points calculator says you have 460,000 ARP allocation at National Harbor for Feb 2019
You can make a ARP Feb.2019 reservation for upto the 460,000 points allocated at National Harbor 
But because you credit pooled all of your 2019 points you don’t have any regular 2019 use year points to make the reservation
You only have credit pool points available for Feb.2019. Voyager will let you use the credit pool points upto your 460,000 ARP allocation to make that Feb. 2019 ARP reservation at National Harbor


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## raygo123 (Jan 28, 2018)

Braindead said:


> This is as simple as I can make it for you
> If you credit pooled all your 2019 points before the new website
> Now the points calculator says you have 460,000 ARP allocation at National Harbor for Feb 2019
> You can make a ARP Feb.2019 reservation for upto the 460,000 points allocated at National Harbor
> ...


Then why did it not acept my 8200 pooled CWA points.  Ihad 200,000 plus uy and the 8200 from the old pool.  The reservation was 203,000.

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## paxsarah (Jan 28, 2018)

raygo123 said:


> Then why did it not acept my 8200 pooled CWA points.  Ihad 200,000 plus uy and the 8200 from the old pool.  The reservation was 203,000.
> 
> Sent from my LGLK430 using Tapatalk



How many CWA points do you own?


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## Cyrus24 (Jan 28, 2018)

raygo123 said:


> Then why did it not acept my 8200 pooled CWA points.  Ihad 200,000 plus uy and the 8200 from the old pool.  The reservation was 203,000.
> 
> Sent from my LGLK430 using Tapatalk


If you have 200,000 2019 points available for ARP at the location you are wanting (per the calculator), all you can use is 200,000 points.


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## raygo123 (Jan 28, 2018)

200000

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## paxsarah (Jan 28, 2018)

raygo123 said:


> 200000
> 
> Sent from my LGLK430 using Tapatalk



Then that is your ceiling for using ARP. You could never book 203000 points worth of ARP, not before and not now, and no one in this thread has suggested otherwise.


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## Baby Jane (Jan 29, 2018)

raygo123 said:


> So did not have any pulled or deposit forward points?
> 
> Sent from my LGLK430 using Tapatalk


They do not expire until September of 2019 but they did use part of them for my ARP to Daytona next year?


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## Braindead (Jan 29, 2018)

Looked at my points history.
The first ARP reservation I made for January 2019.
All points used were old school credit pool points expiring July 2019.
I had all of my 2019 regular use year points available.
The system used points expiring first.


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## Cyrus24 (Jan 29, 2018)

Braindead said:


> Looked at my points history.
> The first ARP reservation I made for January 2019.
> All points used were old school credit pool points expiring July 2019.
> I had all of my 2019 regular use year points available.
> The system used points expiring first.


I just want to confirm something, you did not make a reservation that exceeded points available to use for ARP in 2019?  I suspect not, but, still want to know.  And, are your ARP available points now less than your total points available.


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## Braindead (Jan 29, 2018)

Cyrus24 said:


> I just want to confirm something, you did not make a reservation that exceeded points available to use for ARP in 2019?  I suspect not, but, still want to know.  And, are your ARP available points now less than your total points available.


Correct my ARP reservation did not exceed my ARP allocation at that resort. I had over 1,000,000 more points available than my total of all ARP allocations combined due to credit pool points and converted weeks points added on as available.
My ARP allocation dropped for that resort just like it should.
Reservation only used credit pool points because they expire first. So first points to expire get used first no matter what.
As a result my 2019 regular use year points were untouched and they will still be eligible for points deposit in 2019


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## Cyrus24 (Jan 29, 2018)

Braindead said:


> As a result my 2019 regular use year points were untouched and they will still be eligible for points deposit in 2019


I'm not too sure about this statement, as the verdict is still out on how using points for an ARP reservation impacts points available for deposit.  I'll not debate it as we've all heard, assumed, and been told so many different things.  Would I sound like a broken record if I said this again....I want the Credit Pool back, it was so much easier to understand.....


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## Braindead (Jan 29, 2018)

Cyrus24 said:


> I'm not too sure about this statement, as the verdict is still out on how using points for an ARP reservation impacts points available for deposit.  I'll not debate it as we've all heard, assumed, and been told so many different things.  Would I sound like a broken record if I said this again....I want the Credit Pool back, it was so much easier to understand.....


Time will tell but my 2019 contract points were untouched. That’s the only guarantee I give you today.


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## CCdad (Jan 30, 2018)

Braindead said:


> Time will tell but my 2019 contract points were untouched. That’s the only guarantee I give you today.



Can't you test this by seeing if it shows all 2019 UY points as being available to deposit forward into 2020?


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## Braindead (Jan 31, 2018)

CCdad said:


> Can't you test this by seeing if it shows all 2019 UY points as being available to deposit forward into 2020?


I can guarantee credit pool points were used for my ARP reservation for January 2019
I can guarantee my regular use year January-December 2019 points bucket was not touched

Can I guarantee that ALL of my contract points in the January-December 2019 points are elegible for the points deposit ? NO
As I stated in the quote you used. Time will tell. We will know January 1,2019
I cannot test it today!!


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## Braindead (Jan 31, 2018)

I would just add and advise anyone making a 2019 ARP reservation to also check at 10 months. If your ARP reservation can be replaced during the standard reservation period. DO IT to help protect your points available for the point deposit feature in 2019.


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## Baby Jane (Feb 1, 2018)

Braindead said:


> I would just add and advise anyone making a 2019 ARP reservation to also check at 10 months. If your ARP reservation can be replaced during the standard reservation period. DO IT to help protect your points available for the point deposit feature in 2019.


Except for last booked first cancelled is supposedly Wyndhams new way of handling problems. I thought last year at Edisto they cancelled us because I had cancelled and rebooked but we find out tomorrow if we get a reservation made a year ago gets cancelled. Maybe they think we rent too much but it is only close friends and family. I do not trust anythin right now. Between the web mess and Wyndham not always doing ethical things


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## Melder (Feb 1, 2018)

Braindead said:


> Your deposited points didn’t go where they are supposed to. I would have a ticket opened and get the points put in your 2020 use year.
> 
> From last years supplement:
> You may deposit your points into your next  Use Year or two Use Years from now.
> ...





wjappraise said:


> Correct.  Only one - the January 1 point bucket shows available to deposit to future year.
> 
> They've "opened a ticket."   Let the celebration begin!



I finally had a chance to address this.  I called and explained the "Jan 1" & "Jan 2" situation.  I was transferred to Owner Care and they corrected it while I was on the phone.


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## uscav8r (Jul 1, 2018)

So to recap this long and meandering thread:

1) Points deposited to future years have the same use period as the Regular Use Year points. 

2) the system is agnostic as to what points are being used (i.e., there are no “bins” either on the website or in the back-end of the system).

3) the restriction against depositing points forward more than once is esoteric as long as you are an active user, because:

4) you can deposit forward up to your normal annual allocation in any case. Example: you have 600k annual points, but deposit 200k from 2018 to 2019. In 2019, you make a booking for exactly 200k points, but do nothing else. You can still forward deposit 600k points from 2019 to 2020/21. So while you technically cannot forward deposit twice, you are simply replacing those deposited points with different points. In the case where you book nothing in 2019, you would still be limited to the 600k for deposit.

5) the ability to assign deposited points above your annual allocation has not been proven, but I would suspect that you would limited by the total annual points. 

RCI Deposits + Points Deposits to future Years =< Total Annual Points allotment

RCI + PD + Bookings =< TAP + Points Deposited from prior years. 


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## Cyrus24 (Jul 1, 2018)

uscav8r said:


> 4) you can deposit forward up to your normal annual allocation in any case. Example: you have 600k annual points, but deposit 200k from 2018 to 2019. In 2019, you make a booking for exactly 200k points, but do nothing else. You call still forward deposit 600k points from 2019 to 2020/21. So while you technically cannot forward deposit twice, you are simply replacing those deposited points with different points. In the case where you book nothing in 2019, you would still be limited to the 600k for deposit.


I'm not sure that this has been totally tested and found true IF that hypothetical 200k point reservation was for an ARP reservation in 2019.  It was communicated to me that points have benefits.  If you use 200k of the 600k that was available for 2019 ARP, you would only have 400k 2019 points left available for more ARP reservations, RCI Deposits, Points Deposit 'Feature', etc.  That other 200k would still need to be used in 2019.

If the hypothetical 200k reservation was a regular, no special benefit, reservation there is no question in my mind that all 600k 2019 points would be available for Points Deposit. 

Do I think the system is smart enough to do this correctly.  On the surface, I'd say no.  But, one thing has been consistent with all the 2017 changes......the system is designed to screw the owners.....so maybe it is smart enough. 

I'm curious to find out if any persons that have attempted to Deposit their 2018 points have found that they can't deposit what they wanted to or expected to Deposit.  If anyone has been denied a deposit, I hope they speak up and help us all understand the 'why' behind the denial.


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## paxsarah (Jul 1, 2018)

Cyrus24 said:


> I'm curious to find out if any persons that have attempted to Deposit their 2019 points have found that they can't deposit what they wanted to or expected to Deposit. If anyone has been denied a deposit, I hope they speak up and help us all understand the 'why' behind the denial.



So far the only people able to deposit 2019 points would be those with 4/1 use years. For the majority of people with 1/1 use years, they won't fully be able to test this scenario with their 2019 points until 1/1.


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## Cyrus24 (Jul 1, 2018)

I should have said 2018 points.  The scenario that was being presented was 2019 and I got into that year, I guess.  I'll fix the post.  Thanks.


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## paxsarah (Jul 1, 2018)

There wouldn't have been many people who deposited 2017 points into 2018, since the changeover didn't happen until May. There will be more test cases come 1/1/19.


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## Cyrus24 (Jul 1, 2018)

paxsarah said:


> There wouldn't have been many people who deposited 2017 points into 2018, since the changeover didn't happen until May. There will be more test cases come 1/1/19.


Agreed, 2019 is when we'll start seeing activity of this nature.  I did, however, deposit 2017 points into 2018 after the new system came into play, but, I've used all my points in 2018 so I won't be the test case in 2018 or in 2019.


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## wjappraise (Jul 2, 2018)

Last week I deposited 2,000,000 1/1/2018 points into 1/1/2019 bucket.  

I had used all of my 2019 points for spring break vacations.  I had made some ARP 2019 reservations.  But had not exhausted all 2019 ARP uses.  So the newly deposited points allowed me to make an ARP reservation.   For once, it worked like it should (points deposit).


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## Cyrus24 (Jul 2, 2018)

---All your 2019 points were used before you did the deposit.
---You had not used up all of your ARP availability for 2019.  
---At the time of the deposit and with the deposit, you still had ARP options available via the calendar.  
---deposited points from 2018 were subsequently used for a 2019 ARP vacation.  

So, in essence, the deposited 2018 points picked up 2019 account rights/priviledges (at least for ARP reservations).  That is good new!!!  *One scenario tested.*  A question still remains, what will happen if/when you try to deposit some of those remaining 2019 points into 2020 or 2021?  

Yes, I'm a conspiracy theorist when it comes to the Points Deposit 'Feature'.  I don't trust Wyndham and I see this 'feature' as a way to grab/expire points from unsuspecting/undereducated owners.


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## wjappraise (Jul 2, 2018)

Cyrus24 said:


> So, in essence, the deposited 2018 points picked up 2019 account rights/priviledges (at least for ARP reservations).  That is good new!!!  *One scenario tested.*  A question still remains, what will happen if/when you try to deposit some of those remaining 2019 points into 2020 or 2021?
> 
> Yes, I'm a conspiracy theorist when it comes to the Points Deposit 'Feature'.  I don't trust Wyndham and I see this 'feature' as a way to grab/expire points from unsuspecting/undereducated owners.



I concur with your synopsis.  I also no not believe you to be a conspiracy theorist, more likely a realist.  At this point, any errors in the website have simply been one sided; they have hurt us, the owners, and benefited Wyndham.  I have observed no error in the website that benefited me, an owner.  And I have had to fight tooth and nail to get basic, rudimentary rights of ownership established for my contracts (ARP for my Bonnet Creek contracts).  Your untested scenario is one that concerns me as well, however I take comfort in seeing that ARP extended to my recently deposited points.  I was contemplating duplicating some of my spring break reservations, then cancelling the corresponding ones made with "virgin" 2019 points to recapture them if the ARP did not populate to the deposited points.  But that was unnecessary once ARP followed the deposited points.  Another factor that may provide comfort is that some of my 2,000,000 2018 points had been points deposited from 2017 use year (not sure of the exact amount as they have somewhat co-mingled), yet all of the 2,000,000 easily were moved to 2019 points.  Perhaps that is a good omen.


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## paxsarah (Jul 2, 2018)

wjappraise said:


> I take comfort in seeing that ARP extended to my recently deposited points.



This actually follows from what we already knew about old-style pooled points - I was able to use credit pooled points for ARP in the new system as well. What is really untested is the new functionality of depositing points into a future year from a year which has also had some points deposited into it. We _should_ be able to deposit forward any points (up to our UY total) that haven't been used for any UY-specific purposes (ARP, RCI deposits, etc.), but we don't know if this is how the system will treat them, and whether the system is even functioning as intended (like that crazy Jan 2 deposit start date). Still, now, 14 months after the new system rolled out, there are glaring questions about its basic functionality.


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## Cyrus24 (Jul 2, 2018)

wjappraise said:


> Your untested scenario is one that concerns me as well, however I take comfort in seeing that ARP extended to my recently deposited points.


I take comfort in your test scenario, as well.  I should be able to do a test early in 2019 as I expect to have 2018 deposited points in my account on 1/1/19.  I did not have any 2017 deposited points in my account on 1/1/18 as they had already been used for non-ARP reservations.  

I want the Credit Pool back....in a form that does not allow future year stripping.  I can always hope!!!


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## uscav8r (Jul 2, 2018)

After seeing how things have played out in the 5+ months since this thread first played out, I firmly believe everyone is making this out to be way more complicated than it is. 

Remember, for every separate bin, there is an extra cost in terms of complexity, accounting, coding, computations, etc. everything I have seen with respect to the Points Deposit is to make everything SIMPLER. 

Instead of having to account for up to 366 potential use periods (old credit pool) and potentially over 1,460 ((365+365+366) x 2 types) possible combinations of simultaneous use periods to keep straight, the new system only needs to consider 4 use periods and only 4 simultaneous overlapping use periods once all the credit pools age out. That is a massive reduction in accounting and computing cost. 

We got caught up with the old distinction of ARP, and pooled credits, and language that points could only be pushed forward once. But that creates more bins, and more complexity.

It appears Wyndham actually came out with a much simpler solution that reduces/limits the number of potential use periods and simply uses basic accounting rules to make sure you can’t exceed your annual allotments.

They did something very similar to this in their changes to policies in the WorldMark system. 


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## uscav8r (Jul 2, 2018)

Cyrus24 said:


> I want the Credit Pool back....in a form that does not allow future year stripping.  I can always hope!!!


Never gonna happen, and I think the new setup as implemented (if I am right) is actually much more flexible than the old credit pool (because ARP is still in play). 



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## paxsarah (Jul 2, 2018)

uscav8r said:


> It appears Wyndham actually came out with a much simpler solution that reduces/limits the number of potential use periods and simply uses basic accounting rules to make sure you can’t exceed your annual allotments.



I agree that the new system is conceptually simpler and dare I say even elegant (once the sting of the loss of the credit pool subsided for me). I trust that if it works the way it’s supposed to, it will be a fair system that doesn’t require some of the workarounds we used to enact. I think most of us are still a little skeptical and wary that Wyndham’s IT is up to the task.


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## Cyrus24 (Jul 2, 2018)

All I can say is I won't be taking any chances with MY points.  I'll book ARP, use the old points, then cancel the ARP's and know that what I have in my account is available for later deposit.  Just me, I don't trust Wyndham to be watching out for me.  Time will tell, verdict is still out.  

And, I know that the Credit Pool may never come back, but please, let me have my dreams.


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## wjappraise (Jul 2, 2018)

uscav8r said:


> Never gonna happen, and I think the new setup as implemented (if I am right) is actually much more flexible than the old credit pool (because ARP is still in play).



I hope you are right, and some of the anecdotal evidence to this point does support that conclusion.  However, never underestimate the ineptitude of Wyndham IT department, nor the duplicity of Wyndham Owner Care. . . .   

I do miss the feature to move next year's points to this year, even though I only used it one (it felt like using a credit card for a purchase I would not pay off for a year - Dave Ramsey would not likely approve).


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## Baby Jane (Jul 9, 2018)

I have booked ARP reservations for next year but not all the points I have in there are available for ARP so I assume if those are the ones remaining they wont be available for deposit next year either. I  have rebooked a few ARP reservations within 10 month window and it does change the points available for ARP so assume also available for deposit. It is a big concern for me because we have 600000 points left this year (We had our regular use year plus a bunch of deposited points from old system) all available for deposit. Bad vacation year for us as husbands work schedule has been crazy and wont improve until next spring. Knowing what year to deposit in is a crap shoot until we retire   We may get to use some in November if anywhere warm enough is available. I did prefer the credit pool and  3 years to use it. Time will definitely tell I assume.


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