# Hilton Waikoloa 600 room conversion moves ahead



## holdaer (Mar 10, 2017)

On March 2, 2017 Park Hotels & Resorts sold 600 rooms to Hilton Grand Vacations Club from the Hilton Waikoloa Village hotel.

As mentioned in previous threads, looks like we'll soon have rooms at the HHW hotel.

http://www.bizjournals.com/pacific/news/2017/03/02/hiltons-600-unit-hawaii-timeshare-conversion.html


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## jestme (Mar 10, 2017)

holdaer said:


> On March 2, 2017 Park Hotels & Resorts sold 600 rooms to Hilton Grand Vacations Club from the Hilton Waikoloa Village hotel.
> 
> As mentioned in previous threads, looks like we'll soon have rooms at the HHW hotel.
> 
> http://www.bizjournals.com/pacific/news/2017/03/02/hiltons-600-unit-hawaii-timeshare-conversion.html


So it looks like Hilton Grand Vacations club paid $177M but Park Hotels and Resorts gets exclusive use of it until at least Dec 2019, maybe longer. Sounds like a very sweet deal for Park. It seems that the "split" may not really have created two arms length companies. I'd love to know who actually legally owns the rest of the HGVC buildings, especially the HGVC buildings at the HHV. Park Hotel and resorts, or HGVC.


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## 1Kflyerguy (Mar 10, 2017)

Interesting that this deal covers 600 room out of a bit over 1200 at the hotel.  That will essential cut the number of hotel rooms in half once the conversion is complete.  The Big Island tourist and convention business must have really dropped off.


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## alwysonvac (Mar 10, 2017)

From Parks and Hotels presentation at the 2017 Citi Global Property CEO Conference in March (see slides 30 to 33) - http://www.pkhotelsandresorts.com/~...esentations/pk-citi-conference-2017-final.pdf

_Impact of Schedule of Room Transfer to Hilton Grand Vacation _

_Hilton Waikoloa Village is a 1,243 room resort hotel located in Waikoloa, HI (Big Island)_
_As previously disclosed, Park has an agreement with Hilton Grand Vacations (NYSE: HGV) whereby Park has transferred 600 rooms to HGV to be used as future time-share inventory_
_Park has leased back all 600 rooms for an amount that covers the cost of HGV’s taxes, insurance and overhead, and will continue to generate room revenue until HGV starts the actual construction on the rooms_
_The physical release of rooms will occur in increments over the next four years, with approximately 20% of the inventory transferred in ’17 and the balance of the rooms (~460) will be released by end of 2019._
_The EBITDA impact is as follows:_
_Hilton Waikoloa generated $40mn of EBITDA in 2016 across 1,243 rooms_
_With the first transfer of rooms in mid-2017, we estimate this impact in 2017 will be ~($7.5mn)_
_Once the 140 keys are renovated, and guests begin occupying those rooms, the benefit to Park is as follows: 1) Park will recognize resort fees, F&B income and ancillary revenues from those rooms; 2) no additional renovation disruption; and 3) HGV will compensate Park for its pro-rata share of operating expenses (2018-2019)._
_The next major room transfer will be in ‘19 when HGV takes the remaining ~460 rooms to begin renovation. The impact to Park’s EBITDA will be approximately $15mn in 2020. _

_
Overall Hawaii Travel Statistics 

8.9mn inbound travelers to Hawaii in 2016, 3% Y/Y growth, and 1.3mn more than the prior peak (’07)
- 5.3mn (or 62%) arriving from the US
- 1.5mn (or 17%) arriving from Japan
- Europe and China each make up ~2% of
  Tourism Board is forecasting arrivals to moderate to 1.6% per annum over the next 3 years—still 50bp above the annualized growth rate over the last 25 years
  The islands have experienced solid growth from China, Korea and Australia 

_


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## Blues (Mar 10, 2017)

Did you read the article to the end?  It appears they're planning further development at Hilton Hawaiian Village, too.

"Park Hotels, in a recent presentation to investors, revealed that a future project at the Hilton Hawaiian Village could involve developing a luxury hotel, timeshare or residential project that would include retail at its “Ala Moana Land Parcel,” located between the Grand Waikikian Tower and the Kalia Tower along Ala Moana Boulevard in Waikiki."


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## alwysonvac (Mar 10, 2017)

Blues said:


> Did you read the article to the end?  It appears they're planning further development at Hilton Hawaiian Village, too.
> 
> "Park Hotels, in a recent presentation to investors, revealed that a future project at the Hilton Hawaiian Village could involve developing a luxury hotel, timeshare or residential project that would include retail at its “Ala Moana Land Parcel,” located between the Grand Waikikian Tower and the Kalia Tower along Ala Moana Boulevard in Waikiki."



This was also mentioned earlier this year.
http://tugbbs.com/forums/index.php?threads/hilton-hawaiian-village-getting-another-tower.250060/


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## Blues (Mar 11, 2017)

Thanks, I guess I missed that.  I find HHV unbearably crowded now; and I haven't even been back since they started on the Grand Islander.  I can't fathom what it will be like if they build yet another tower between Kalia and GW.


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## dougp26364 (Mar 12, 2017)

Blues said:


> Thanks, I guess I missed that.  I find HHV unbearably crowded now; and I haven't even been back since they started on the Grand Islander.  I can't fathom what it will be like if they build yet another tower between Kalia and GW.



We tend to agree. While we had a great stay the first time, before the Waikakian opened, our second stay, actually in the Waikakian, wasn't as pleasant. HHV had become to crowded to relax and enjoy. With the new building plus future planned expansion, neither of us can imagine returning to Oahu unless it's at the Marriott all the way up in Ko'Olina, and that's to far away for us to enjoy Honolulu due to the traffic on Oahu. So we really don't see returning to Oahu anywhere in the near or distant future. There is such a thing as to much of a good thing..........but HGVC is still selling those units and the demand still makes it difficult to book a unit unless you book 9 months in advance, so we must be in the minority.


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## alwysonvac (Mar 12, 2017)

I agree. With each new HHV tower, they're creating less of a relaxing resort experience.
HHV's greatest appeal is the ability to escape and relax from the Waikiki hustle and bustle.

During my last visit in 2014, they had placed a shuttle pickup in front of the great lawn since  the old bus depot got replaced with the new Grand Islander tower. As a result the sidewalk was occupied with guests and their luggage along the sidewalk. We had to walk in the street to get by or cross over to the narrow sidewalk near Lappert's ice cream shop.

We used to enjoy strolling through the village. Now, we try to avoid it by leaving the village all together by exiting along the beachwalk path or via the street facing the Grand Waikikian Tower entrance.

This year we're staying in the Kalia and Grand Islander towers which are closer to Kalia Road which makes it easier to avoid walking through the village altogether.  Sadly for us, HHV is becoming more of a place to sleep and shower.


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## Sandy VDH (Mar 12, 2017)

If transfer of some Hilton Waikoloa rooms will happen Mid 2017, they should soon have a points chart and limited inventory to add.  I suppose they will do like the do for the other 2 new Hawaiian properties, there is a 6 month window, not a 9 month, that give priority to resort owners.

Has anyone seen a point chart yet?


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## jestme (Mar 12, 2017)

Sandy VDH said:


> If transfer of some Hilton Waikoloa rooms will happen Mid 2017, they should soon have a points chart and limited inventory to add.  I suppose they will do like the do for the other 2 new Hawaiian properties, there is a 6 month window, not a 9 month, that give priority to resort owners.
> 
> Has anyone seen a point chart yet?


I think they will have work to do before they release them to members. The rooms will need plumbing for a kitchen sink, power for stoves, microwaves, etc. Then they need to be installed. The room will be offline to Park when that happens. If Park are keeping full control of the rooms until 2019 in the deal, don't expect any point chart soon.


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## Sandy VDH (Mar 12, 2017)

It said that 140 rooms would be turned over this year, with the balance of 460 rooms in 2019.


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## dsmrp (Mar 13, 2017)

I didn't see in the article how many timeshare units would be created from the 600 rooms. Although in the alwysonac's post of Parks and hotels presentation indicated a 1:1 room to TS.  So these converted/renovated rooms would be at best studios??  Just sounds like they are trying to transfer  a good portion of the maintenance costs to TS 'owners'


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## Sandy VDH (Mar 13, 2017)

From this thread http://tugbbs.com/forums/index.php?threads/visiting-at-kings-land.251327/page-2#post-1974348

It states that 601 rooms will be converted to 450 timeshares.  Using basic math quadratic equations, hey I have a Bachelors of Mathematics, that should result in 151 1BRs and 299 studios, provided the assumption is that 2 hotels rooms make up a 1 BR and a single hotel rooms makes up a studio.  Although there are some bigger curved rooms and standards rooms in these towers, there might be a bit of room size variance.  So there likely will be a significant amount of Plus or Premier units and some standard units around the back.  These would be based on view and size. 

OK, so that is my prediction on the split, 2:1 studios to 1 BRs.


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## 1Kflyerguy (Mar 13, 2017)

jestme said:


> I think they will have work to do before they release them to members. The rooms will need plumbing for a kitchen sink, power for stoves, microwaves, etc. Then they need to be installed. The room will be offline to Park when that happens. If Park are keeping full control of the rooms until 2019 in the deal, don't expect any point chart soon.



I am sure the units will need quite a bit of work to convert them over to timeshares.  I wonder if they will be adding full kitchens to the one bedrooms or just kitchenette type units.


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## jestme (Mar 13, 2017)

1Kflyerguy said:


> I am sure the units will need quite a bit of work to convert them over to timeshares.  I wonder if they will be adding full kitchens to the one bedrooms or just kitchenette type units.


I would expect them to merge 2 hotel rooms to make 1BR, similar to what they did at the Kalia. One room would be kept as a BR, the other room would be made into the kitchen/LR. It's also possible to make 2BR, depending on the hotel room adjoining doors. Put 3 hotel rooms together, with the kitchen/living room in the middle. 
I also agree with dsmrp that they are transferring overhead and maintenance costs to timeshare owners, who will have little to say about how the cost allocations are done. I'm sure if they could have sold the whole thing to another hotel company for more money, they would have.


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## GregT (Mar 13, 2017)

Does anyone know how many units are at KingsLand?

450 units at Ocean Tower is massive.  If not really thought about how many units they would be adding, but this is a major addition.  I think there are about six (?) units per floor at KingsLand - 18 units per building - 25-30 (?) buildings?

So this would be duplicating Kings Land, just with smaller size units.  

Numbers are rough but Wow. 

Will be interesting to see this project develop.  Thx!

Best,

Greg


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## Sandy VDH (Mar 13, 2017)

jestme said:


> It's also possible to make 2BR, depending on the hotel room adjoining doors. Put 3 hotel rooms together, with the kitchen/living room in the middle.



I think it has been stated there will only be studios and 1 BRs, NO 2 BR units.  Frankly there are more 2 BR units at Bay Club, Kohola (only 2 BRs), and Kings' Land, adding studios and some more 1 BRs are a nice addition to balance the mix available to HGVC over the entire Waikoloa area.


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## Sandy VDH (Mar 13, 2017)

1Kflyerguy said:


> I am sure the units will need quite a bit of work to convert them over to timeshares.  I wonder if they will be adding full kitchens to the one bedrooms or just kitchenette type units.



Like Kalia conversions, I expect studios have kitchenettes and 1 BR have full kitchens.  The 1 BR units will obviously take more work, but the kitchen will be put in the place of the bathroom in the HR, thus having water and plumbing already available.


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## Sandy VDH (Mar 13, 2017)

the current website of HWV lists 4 types of rooms, Ocean Front, Oceanview and Partial Oceanview, and Resort View So there is your Premier, Plus (OV rooms)  and Standard Room categories.

The website also says there is already 1 BRs and a Presidential Suite 2 BR at the Ocean Tower NOW as well.  I believe these units are in the center ring facing across the lagoon facing south, to catch sunset views.

So maybe the numbers of studios and 1 BRs will be different.  Maybe they will use the Presidential as onsite concierge, activities or something else. 

Who knows.


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## 1Kflyerguy (Mar 13, 2017)

GregT said:


> Does anyone know how many units are at KingsLand?
> 
> 450 units at Ocean Tower is massive.  If not really thought about how many units they would be adding, but this is a major addition.  I think there are about six (?) units per floor at KingsLand - 18 units per building - 25-30 (?) buildings?
> 
> ...



I just checked the HGV corporate website, according the "Resort Information One Sheet" Kings Land has 435 units, so this will be larger than that.  Definitely adding some serious inventory to the Big Island.  Based on the timing they are projecting, I am assuming they won't build any more phases at KL until they sell the new Inventory at Ocean Tower.  

Wonder how the point structure and MF will be?  With close to half of the hotel rooms going to timeshare, it seems like the MF could be much more than the other resorts.  Though perhaps KL and Kohala Suites are already underwriting the upkeep as part of the access agreement.


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## 1Kflyerguy (Mar 13, 2017)

Sandy VDH said:


> Like Kalia conversions, I expect studios have kitchenettes and 1 BR have full kitchens.  The 1 BR units will obviously take more work, but the kitchen will be put in the place of the bathroom in the HR, thus having water and plumbing already available.



That makes sense to me.


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## Sandy VDH (Mar 13, 2017)

You can see current hotel rooms here....
https://walkinto.in/tour/-JWBn6X_Fx...6183793|0|1XlUko8wCBkAAAQvPF41mw|false|GOOGLE


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## dsmrp (Mar 13, 2017)

I'm sure having the hotel amenities, pools and dolphin area (not to mention some ocean views) adjoined to TS units will be big selling points. Will make Waikoloa much like HHV, but without the Waikiki busy-ness.

Now that we are older, we still prefer our quieter and larger Bay Club unit. Quite frankly, a really nice large resort with bells & whistles, is wasted on DH, LOL


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## alwysonvac (Mar 13, 2017)

GregT said:


> Does anyone know how many units are at KingsLand?...



From http://americanbuildersquarterly.com/2013/rider-levett-bucknall/
When completed, the resort will feature 802 timeshare units.
Phase 1 created 10 three story buildings with a total of *198* one, two and three bedroom units
Phase 2 added 2 additional three story buildings with a total of *97* one and two bedroom units​
From http://www.dckww.com/News.aspx dated June 2016
Phase 3 added 3 additional three story buildings with a total of *124* units of 72 one bedroom units, 42 two bedroom units, and ten 3 bedroom “luxury” suites.
_HGVC’s Master Plan for Kings’ Land includes three more phases, as dckbegins working on phase IV of the project._​120 timeshare units Hilton Grand Vacations Club at Waikoloa Beach Resort. 
142 timeshare units The Bay Club at Waikoloa Beach Resort


​


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## alwysonvac (Mar 13, 2017)

Sandy VDH said:


> *the current website of HWV lists* *4 types* *of rooms, Ocean Front, Oceanview and Partial Oceanview, and Resort View* So there is your Premier, Plus (OV rooms)  and Standard Room categories...



Sadly, I think the point charts will be similar to the high point requirement we see with Grand Islander and Parc Soleil.

Similar to Oahu's Grand Islander One Bedroom point structure 
Resort View Regular 1 Bedroom - 7,200(Platinum) / 5,100(Gold)
Partial Ocean View *Plus* 1 Bedroom - 9,300(Platinum) / 6,300(Gold)
Ocean View *Premier* 1 Bedroom - 12,600(Platinum) / 8,700(Gold)
Ocean *Luxury View Premier* 1 Bedroom - 16,800(Platinum) / 11,600 (Gold)
_And Maybe a "one bedroom Penthouse" room category _

Similar to Orlando's Parc Soleil Studio point structure 
Studio - 2,200(Platinum) / 1,600 (Gold)
Studio *Plus* - 3,500 (Platinum) / 2,500 (Gold)
Studio *Premier* - 6,200 (Platinum) / 4,200 (Gold)
_And Maybe a studio luxury view premier and studio penthouse room categories_


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## alwysonvac (Mar 14, 2017)

Also the number of rooms converted into studios might be a very small percentage  (based on what they did with the Kalia Tower on Oahu).

For those who don't know....
The Kalia Tower is a combination hotel/timeshare tower at the Hilton Hawaiian Village on Oahu. Kalia timeshare units are converted hotel rooms. The rooms are located on 6 floors (floor # 12 through 18; there is no 13th floor).
*At Kalia there are 72 timeshare units (66 one Bedrooms and 6 studios).*


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## davidvel (Mar 14, 2017)

alwysonvac said:


> Also the number of rooms converted into studios might be a very small percentage  (based on what they did with the Kalia Tower on Oahu).
> 
> For those who don't know....
> ...The rooms are located on 6 floors (floor # 12 through 18; there is no 13th floor).
> *...*


There is a 13th floor. Its just numbered 14 to trick the superstitious.


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## GregT (Mar 14, 2017)

alwysonvac said:


> Sadly, I think the point charts will be similar to the high point requirement we see with Grand Islander and Parc Soleil.
> 
> Similar to Oahu's Grand Islander One Bedroom point structure
> Resort View Regular 1 Bedroom - 7,200(Platinum) / 5,100(Gold)
> ...



Yes, this is the type of point chart that I am expecting for the Ocean Tower at HWV.  I also think it will have the shortened Club Season reservation window similar to Grand Islander (6 months -- I think Hokulani has this also) and may also have the Friday check-in for Home Resort reservations, like Grand Islander.  A timeshare sales rep told me that the Friday check-in was preferred by the Japanese target market, I don't recall why that was the case.

I don't know how I will feel about this property.  It's a far walk to the lobby and then another far walk to a car.  From Google earth, I don't think there is anyway to put a parking garage near the building -- especially for 450 timeshare units.    But it's a great location and it will be interesting to watch for further developments.

Best,

Greg


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## 1Kflyerguy (Mar 14, 2017)

I have mixed thoughts as well. We stayed in the Ocean Tower years ago before we bought our T/S. It is a long walk, and yes you can take the tram or boat but there can be a long wait for those too... The ocean view will be nice to have, but there is no real beach at the resort. 

I agree the point requirements are likely to be high.. I think have to be more than Kings Land, at least the ocean view should command more than the Lava / Golf view at KL. 

For me part of the appeal of Waikoloa is the lack of crowds, as least when we travel in the off season. I do worry a bit that with the new housing development, the Marriott T/S conversion, now Hilton Conversion that it may start to feel more crowded.


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## Sandy VDH (Mar 15, 2017)

alwysonvac said:


> *At Kalia there are 72 timeshare units (66 one Bedrooms and 6 studios).*



Does anyone know where the 1 studio per floor is located??


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## jestme (Mar 15, 2017)

Sandy VDH said:


> Does anyone know where the 1 studio per floor is located??


They are room 49 on the 12-18'th floor. (1249,1449,etc.) They face the ocean, and are down a bit from the elevators, on the Tapa tower end of the building. There is also a lanai, but in the afternoon, it  is too hot to sit out there. They probably would have been 1BR+'s like the others on that side of the building, but there is now an electrical room where the other hotel room was.


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## brp (Mar 16, 2017)

dsmrp said:


> I'm sure having the hotel amenities, pools and dolphin area (not to mention some ocean views) adjoined to TS units will be big selling points. Will make Waikoloa much like HHV, but without the Waikiki busy-ness.
> 
> Now that we are older, we still prefer our quieter and larger Bay Club unit. Quite frankly, a really nice large resort with bells & whistles, is wasted on DH, LOL



We are big fans of Bay Club (using Flamingo points). We are trying Kohala in November, but that's not that much different in location. We do wander down to the Hilton once or twice per visit to wander around and very much like the grounds. We did stay at the hotel once and enjoyed that visit. We would be likely to stay at the converted Hilton in the future.

Cheers.


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## Sandy VDH (Mar 16, 2017)

brp said:


> We are big fans of Bay Club (using Flamingo points). We are trying Kohala in November, but that's not that much different in location.



I love the Bay Club units.  They have great lanais.  

Of the 3 choices,  I like Kohala the least.  Smallish rooms and OK pool, just nothing that the others don't do better. 

So here is my vote 

If you want a great room and huge lanai - then Bay Club #1 choice
If you want a awesome pool area onsite - then Kings' Land

I would probably NOT pick Kohala unless you want HWV access and ONLY higher point level units are left at KL and you want to save some points.


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## brp (Mar 17, 2017)

Sandy VDH said:


> I love the Bay Club units.  They have great lanais.
> 
> Of the 3 choices,  I like Kohala the least.  Smallish rooms and OK pool, just nothing that the others don't do better.
> 
> ...



Thanks for the rundown. I don't like the grounds for KL even a little bit. I go by there every morning running and it looks very uninteresting. I much prefer the setting of Bay Club/Kohala. That makes it a tougher choice since, for this trip, we do want HHV access, so Kohala is really the only choice.

Of course, if we end up not liking the rooms, the grounds around KL may start to look better in the future if we again want HHV access 

Cheers.


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## GregT (Mar 17, 2017)

brp said:


> Thanks for the rundown. I don't like the grounds for KL even a little bit. I go by there every morning running and it looks very uninteresting. I much prefer the setting of Bay Club/Kohala. That makes it a tougher choice since, for this trip, we do want HHV access, so Kohala is really the only choice.
> 
> Of course, if we end up not liking the rooms, the grounds around KL may start to look better in the future if we again want HHV access
> 
> Cheers.


This is an interesting comment - i had not considered the grounds at Kohala/Bay Club to be special. Do others feel the same way?  I am accustomed to Kings Land by now but never thought the grounds were much to look at. But I like the clubhouse and the main pool. 

Would appreciate others perspective.  Thx!

Best,

Greg


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## brp (Mar 17, 2017)

GregT said:


> This is an interesting comment - i had not considered the grounds at Kohala/Bay Club to be special. Do others feel the same way?  I am accustomed to Kings Land by now but never thought the grounds were much to look at. But I like the clubhouse and the main pool.
> 
> Would appreciate others perspective.  Thx!
> 
> ...



To be fair, my view of KL is from the road, running by. I've mot been into the interior where it might be nice.

I like the smallerness (yeah, I made up a word) of the Bay Club/Kohala area. It's long, but really narrow. I actually do like the main pool setting, and the Bay Club quiet pool - where we're more likely to be even staying at Kohala. So, the grounds may not be all that special, but I guess I just like the feel of it...and the familiarity as we've been several times now.

Cheers.


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## holdaer (Mar 17, 2017)

Greg and brp bring an interesting perspective to this conversation.  Back in 2010, My family vacationed in the Ocean tower and toured Kings' Land.  We joined HGVC on that trip.  We haven't been back to the Big Island since that trip but we would love to come back.

The most interesting thing I noticed was the different locations which can create a unique experience while at the same location.

Having various points of view is exciting and very informative.


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## Luanne (Mar 17, 2017)

GregT said:


> This is an interesting comment - i had not considered the grounds at Kohala/Bay Club to be special. Do others feel the same way?  I am accustomed to Kings Land by now but never thought the grounds were much to look at. But I like the clubhouse and the main pool.
> 
> Would appreciate others perspective.  Thx!
> 
> ...


It's the location of the Bay Club that makes it my first choice.  It's closer to the Hilton hotel property.  I also like the larger units.  Kingsland is closer to tne highway and therefore less desirable.


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## 1Kflyerguy (May 23, 2017)

We did a sales presentation at Kings Land this week.  No we did not buy anything.

I know the sales talk is always suspect, but he stated the the Ocean Tower conversation will be a mix of 1,2 and 3 bedroom units.  No studios will be built.  They plan to start taking reservations for elite members in December of this year. 

He also stated the going from 600 hotel rooms to 200 HGVC suites, so that will drop the over room count at the resort quite a bit.  That is probably good the main hotel has felt deserted every-time we have been over there. I know its the slow season here, but the hotel feels super slow. 

Lastly he showed me a news article showing HGVC is spending 825K on each room to really boost the luxury factor,  supposedly the typical Orlando resort is only 50K per room. 

Hard to know how much of this is accurate, but much of the info seems at least possible.   He was trying to convince us to go for elite, so definitely pushing the possibility that the first reservations will be elite only and the fact that its a premium resort with high point requirements.


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## Sandy VDH (May 23, 2017)

1Kflyerguy said:


> I know the sales talk is always suspect, but he stated the the Ocean Tower conversation will be a mix of 1,2 and 3 bedroom units.  No studios will be built.  They plan to start taking reservations for elite members in December of this year.
> 
> He also stated the going from 600 hotel rooms to 200 HGVC suites, so that will drop the over room count at the resort quite a bit.  That is probably good the main hotel has felt deserted every-time we have been over there. I know its the slow season here, but the hotel feels super slow.



*So either 1 of three things is going on.  1) consider the source, Salesman has no clue. 2) Reporter got the facts wrong  3) The Plans have changed in the 3 years since this article was published (mar/14 date).*

Ok, so this reporter stated in this article
http://westhawaiitoday.com/news/local-news/plan-appealed-convert-ocean-tower-rooms-timeshares

By Erin Miller
West Hawaii Today
emiller@westhawaiitoday.com
Hilton Waikoloa Village’s neighbors are protesting a plan that would convert 601 Ocean Tower hotel rooms to 450 timeshare units.

But I also found a much later article that quoted the same number.
https://www.elitepronet.com/hilton-undertaking-timeshare-conversion-project-at-resort/


A search Nov 2016 yielded this:
http://www.bizjournals.com/pacific/...ertaking-timeshare-conversion-project-at.html

_Hilton Worldwide is in the early stages of converting about half of its 600 hotel units in the Ocean Tower at its Hilton Waikoloa Village on the Big Island into timeshare units, a spokeswoman for Hilton Grand Vacations confirmed to Pacific Business News on Monday.

The 1,243-hotel is, by far, the largest resort on the Big Island, according to PBN research. It opened in 1988.

The plan is to turn 347 hotel rooms in the Ocean Tower into timeshare units. A general contractor for the project has yet to be selected.

Erin Pagan, a spokeswoman for Hilton Grand Vacations, told PBN that, when the project begins, it will occur in phases with the tower remaining open._

But it provides confusing info...
First it said 600 hotel rooms then it says 347 hotel rooms, I think the error is perhaps it meant 600 hotel to 347 timeshare units. (That is 100 less than earlier comments)

 How does one locate planning commission appeal information?


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## frank808 (May 23, 2017)

I can't fanthom that they would spend 800k plus for a unit if they only spend 50k for an orlando unit.  What would make hgvc spend 16 times more per unit?  They are not going to be charging 16 times more points for the same size hawaii units vs orlando units.

I know construction costs here are higher than orlando.  Maybe 2 to 4 times but not that 16 time premium.  I cannot see hgvc spending more money than they have to to convert the hotel units to timeshare units. Spending more than needed hurts their profit margins.

Sent from my SM-N910P using Tapatalk


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## 2disneydads (May 23, 2017)

I just read a story from January 2017 concerning a presentation made by the new HGVC holding company concerning another new building at the HHV on Oahu.  There also was a discussion about the conversion of 600 rooms at the Waikoloa hotel to timeshare units.  The article mentioned a $1.7 billion vale for the hotel, or $825,000 per room.  So perhaps HGVC paid $825,000 per room for the purchase.  Or perhaps that was the intrinsic pet room value used in determining the price for each room.  So there is some arguable basis for an $825,000 price per room, but not for the amount being spent per room for the conversion.  The sales person is misusing a publicly available detail. 

Sent from my SM-N920P using Tapatalk


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## Sandy VDH (May 23, 2017)

2disneydads said:


> I just read a story from January 2017 concerning a presentation made by the new HGVC holding company concerning another new building at the HHV on Oahu.  There also was a discussion about the conversion of 600 rooms at the Waikoloa hotel to timeshare units.  The article mentioned a $1.7 billion vale for the hotel, or $825,000 per room.  So perhaps HGVC paid $825,000 per room for the purchase.  Or perhaps that was the intrinsic pet room value used in determining the price for each room.  So there is some arguable basis for an $825,000 price per room, but not for the amount being spent per room for the conversion.  The sales person is misusing a publicly available detail.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N920P using Tapatalk



It is the land AND the building units I assume.  Certainly can't imagine it is a leasehold.   So that could add some price to that large $$ to it.  It is Ocean FRONT, and on an island that is limited.


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## 2disneydads (May 23, 2017)

Well, they likely aren't buying the land, because they are buying units.  The hotel probably is being converted into a condominium, with HGVC buying condo units.  This is just my guess, not anything I've seen.  The buildings themselves don't seem to be trading.

Sent from my SM-N920P using Tapatalk


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## davidvel (May 23, 2017)

2disneydads said:


> Well, they likely aren't buying the land, because they are buying units.  The hotel probably is being converted into a condominium, with HGVC buying condo units.  This is just my guess, not anything I've seen.  The buildings themselves don't seem to be trading.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N920P using Tapatalk


The units I assume are sitting on land? If so they are either buying that land or leasing it. I doubt they are leasing it.


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## Sandy VDH (May 23, 2017)

davidvel said:


> The units I assume are sitting on land? If so they are either buying that land or leasing it. I doubt they are leasing it.


i'm with you.  It is not a leasehold.  The land and units have to owned by HGVC.


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## 2disneydads (May 23, 2017)

They do not, if HGVC is buying only certain floors of the hotel.  I haven't seen what the anticipated layout of the units, but if HGVC is buying certain floors and not whole buildings, then they likely are not buying land but rather an undivided intetest in the land on which the buildings sit as part of buying the units.  A lot will depend on where the rooms being converted are. 

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk


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## Sandy VDH (May 23, 2017)

2disneydads said:


> They do not, if HGVC is buying only certain floors of the hotel.  I haven't seen what the anticipated layout of the units, but if HGVC is buying certain floors and not whole buildings, then they likely are not buying land but rather an undivided intetest in the land on which the buildings sit as part of buying the units.  A lot will depend on where the rooms being converted are.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk



There is your understanding problem.  They are getting the entire Ocean Towers buildings.  Separate from all other buildings.  On its own land, off on one side of the property.


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## GregT (May 23, 2017)

Sandy VDH said:


> It is the land AND the building units I assume.  Certainly can't imagine it is a leasehold.   So that could add some price to that large $$ to it.  It is Ocean FRONT, and on an island that is limited.



I have the same assumption, and this was my reaction when I saw the number.  $825K all-in for these units is a reasonable number, if you need to include the value of the land.

However, the land is not a cash amount being paid here and construction costs are probably closer to $200K-$300K per unit.   So the owner of the hotel (and land) will be out of pocket for $90M cash (for ~300 units, and they also need to contribute the land) and will be in a position to monetize 300 units X 50 weeks X $50K/average per week -- so $750M in retail sales (before marketing costs and commission to HGVC)?  Numbers are rough, but that's how it can make sense.

Currently, they have 647 hotel rooms that are a financial drain while they sit on priceless land.  Much better to pay the $90M construction costs, have HGVC manage the sales process (and the resulting timeshare property) and the new timeshare owners will also kick in $XXX/each towards the common upkeep of a very expensive property.

It's really a great model for the hotel owner and one we should expect will continue at every Chain hotel in a prime location, that has excess capacity.

And for the record, I still like the sound of HGVC Barbados.

Best,

Greg


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## 1Kflyerguy (May 24, 2017)

I wish i could remember the publication the article was in showing the average expense of 825K, unfortunately the guy was pulling out all kinds of papers and articles out to validate his points...or just to confuse...  In any event it was published in an article, so probably based on a press release or similar and might include other expenses as part of the project.

Since the other info points to more units than the 200 my salesperson reported, my guess is he was wrong or perhaps they are doing 200 in the early phases, with the balance later in the project.


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## Sandy VDH (May 24, 2017)

If the final unit count from HGVC is 200, and they got 600 hotel rooms and suites, then I would agree they are building 2&3 BR units.  If end up with 450 HGVC from the 600 then there just has to a chunk of studios in the mix


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## 1Kflyerguy (Jun 1, 2017)

Sandy VDH said:


> If the final unit count from HGVC is 200, and they got 600 hotel rooms and suites, then I would agree they are building 2&3 BR units.  If end up with 450 HGVC from the 600 then there just has to a chunk of studios in the mix



I am not as confident they will build studios.  One of the salespeople recently told me "studio owners don't end up as happy owners."  While i tend to discount most of what Timeshare Sales people say, I can see truth in that statement.  I don't recall the last time on TUG someone recommended buying a studio... 

In addition what is the last resort HGVC built with Studio's?  I don't think any recent HGVC development in Hawaii has a studio, neither does Oceans 22 or Oceans Oak.


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## rfc0001 (Jun 15, 2017)

Just had owner update at Kingsland two weeks ago.  I asked about HWV Ocean Tower and he said they would have all unit sizes, including studios.  He said they would be open next year.  Like all new developments, exiting direct purchasers will not be able to upgrade.


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## 1Kflyerguy (Jun 15, 2017)

rfc0001 said:


> Just had owner update at Kingsland two weeks ago.  I asked about HWV Ocean Tower and he said they would have all unit sizes, including studios.  He said they would be open next year.  Like all new developments, exiting direct purchasers will not be able to upgrade.



And in typical Owners Update presentation style, you got very different information than me on the unit types...


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## rfc0001 (Jun 17, 2017)

1Kflyerguy said:


> And in typical Owners Update presentation style, you got very different information than me on the unit types...


Yep, although given it's a conversion of existing hotel rooms, I think Studios are very likely.


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## Helios (Jun 18, 2017)

rfc0001 said:


> Just had owner update at Kingsland two weeks ago.  I asked about HWV Ocean Tower and he said they would have all unit sizes, including studios.  He said they would be open next year.  Like all new developments, exiting direct purchasers will not be able to upgrade.


do you think they will be open next year?  as in late 2018?


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## Sandy VDH (Jun 18, 2017)

From an earlier post...

_The physical release of rooms will occur in increments over the next four years, with approximately 20% of the inventory transferred in ’17 and the balance of the rooms (~460) will be released by end of 2019._
So it could be that units are available for next year.


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## rfc0001 (Jun 19, 2017)

Helios said:


> do you think they will be open next year?  as in late 2018?


The way he phrased it was "it will be available for booking beginning next year" making it sound like early 2018 - which is in line with what has been posted here.


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## Helios (Aug 26, 2017)

Just saw in the Hilton site that the ocean tower has a note indicating that there will be construction starting 10/16...


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## Helios (Aug 26, 2017)

somehow this posted twice


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## HGVC Lover (Aug 28, 2017)

davidvel said:


> The units I assume are sitting on land? If so they are either buying that land or leasing it. I doubt they are leasing it.



We have lived in Hawaii for many years and I believe the Waikoloa Hilton is built on leasehold land.  This is not uncommon and often not disclosed by timeshare companies in Hawaii during presentation.  The Hyatt Residences on Kaanapali Beach on Maui are built on leasehold lands but you do not hear this mentioned in presentations but it is buried in the fine print of the contract.  We were just out at Waikoloa Hilton last week and it was full and no sign of building.  Also, every owner update we have gone to in the last year says that HGVC's new business model is to buy existing properties and not to build?


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## JIMinNC (Aug 29, 2017)

HGVC Lover said:


> Also, every owner update we have gone to in the last year says that HGVC's new business model is to buy existing properties and not to build?



This would probably fit their new business model since they are buying an existing hotel building and renovating/converting it to timeshare units, not building it rom the ground up. Both HGVC and Marriott Vacation Club are pursuing "asset light" expansion activities where they try to avoid ground-up new construction - although HGVC did just open a new ground-up project in Hilton Head, and owns property for a potential ground up project on Maui that is still in the permitting/development phase. Asset light can also mean working with a third-party who fronts the money to buy/build/renovate the units, with HGVC/MVC buying the units in some phased manner over time, and in so doing, not tying up their capital for an extended period prior to the actual sale of the intervals.


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## rabmsn (Oct 3, 2017)

I just rec'd this promo from Hilton Honors:

*72-Hour Ocean Tower Super Sale*
*SALE STARTS FRIDAY!*

Take advantage of nearby construction to book an incredible low rate, starting at $129 for resort view! Portions of Ocean Tower will undergo construction beginning October 16, 2017. Work will take place Monday to Friday, between 8am and 5pm.

Sale period:


Starts *Friday, October 6 at 12pm* Hawaii Time
Ends *Monday, October 9 at 12pm* Hawaii Time
Stay between (additional blackout dates may apply):


*October 15 - December 15, 2017*
*January 7 - March 31, 2018*


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## alwysonvac (Oct 3, 2017)

For those thinking about the Waikoloa hotel room sale - http://www.hiltonwaikoloavillage.com/oceantowersale?\

Don't forget... Along with the ongoing construction, there is the daily resort fee and daily parking fee 

From http://www.hiltonwaikoloavillage.com/have-a-perfect-stay
*Have a car? Use self park or valet*
_Self-parking is available for *$27 per day*. However, we recommend using our Valet Parking service for $37 per day to avoid the long uphill walk from the parking lot._​
From http://www.hiltonwaikoloavillage.com/resort-charge
*Resort Charge Benefits*
_Our standard Daily Resort Charge of *$35 (plus tax) per room*, per night includes the following benefits:_

_Internet access in your room_
_Hawaiian Cultural Classes (Hula, Lei Making and Ukulele - see below for details)_
_PlayStation® 3 access with unlimited movies and games (DVD Now card can only be used in your specified tower. Limit 2 checked out at any given time.)_
_Local, toll-free, and credit card calls (No access fee)_
_Complimentary 15 minute photo session and souvenir keepsake - Reservations required for photo session_
_20% discount on beach toys at the saltwater lagoon_
_Keiki Pool Activities & Scavenger Hunt - Meet at the Kona Pool Towel Desk_
_Fitness or Yoga Class at the Kohala Spa - Reservations required, contact Kohala Spa at extension 1228 for reservations_
_Pool Toy Inflation at Kona Pool and Lagoon Beach recreation desks - Inflatable toys available for purchase_
_Big Island Bird Talk with resident Wildlife Specialist_
_Hawaiian Cultural Classes take place at the Hawaiian Cultural Center located next to Kohala Spa in Lagoon Tower. These activities have limited space so reservations are required to participate. With the resort charge, the first class for each person, each day is complimentary.  Additional classes each day are $15 per person. Please call Ext. 1463 to make a reservation. View the Resort Activities schedule, showing class times._​


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## clotheshorse (Oct 8, 2017)

Blues said:


> Thanks, I guess I missed that.  I find HHV unbearably crowded now; and I haven't even been back since they started on the Grand Islander.  I can't fathom what it will be like if they build yet another tower between Kalia and GW.



Depends when you go, knowing that Hawaii is always busy - it's relative.  Since we don't have kids, we are never there during what we call "high family/school weeks - months."


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## MelanieB (Oct 11, 2017)

Sandy VDH said:


> Using basic math quadratic equations, hey I have a Bachelors of Mathematics...



UWaterloo?

(Sorry, I know this was both an older post and off topic, but I had to ask.  Don't know of many places that offer a BMath.)


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## Sandy VDH (Oct 11, 2017)

MelanieB said:


> UWaterloo?
> 
> (Sorry, I know this was both an older post and off topic, but I had to ask.  Don't know of many places that offer a BMath.)



Yes University of Waterloo, class of 1988


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## MelanieB (Oct 12, 2017)

Sandy VDH said:


> Yes University of Waterloo, class of 1988



BMath CS/EEE, class of 2000.


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## 1Kflyerguy (Nov 7, 2017)

Just FYI.

Mark Wang, CEO and President of HGVC discussed the Ocean Tower conversion during their recent earning call.  He stated the sales for this resort will start in early 2018, with first occupancy planned for late 2018.  He also confirmed this will be higher priced that anything they have previously done in Waikoloa.  He also referred to this as sequel resort, not sure exactly what means.  Perhaps that its targeted to existing owners.


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## thare (Dec 26, 2017)

Jesus, more expensive than KL?  I guess Hawaii sells, and prices will keep skyrocketing. I have a tough time reconciling paying 2x Lagoon tower though for a marginally better room.


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## CalGalTraveler (Dec 26, 2017)

1Kflyerguy said:


> Just FYI.
> 
> He also referred to this as sequel resort, not sure exactly what means.  Perhaps that its targeted to existing owners.



Thanks for the update. My wild guess is that "sequel" is HGVC code word for getting more money out of current owners...


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