# What’s the true benefit of timeshares



## tturla (Nov 1, 2017)

I’m a TS owner but new at reading all the forums advice blogs regarding buying selling and trading TS’s. With all the opportunities to rent via TUG VRBO AirBnb Craigslist Redweek etc., with the cost close to MF’s, what do you all think is the main driving force behind ownership? Just curious about everyone’s thoughts. 


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## AwayWeGo (Nov 1, 2017)

For us, it's luxury vacation accommodations at Motel 6 & Super 8 rates.  

Obviously, we're resale all the way on timeshares.  Plus, we take advantage of RCI _Last Call_, etc., typically paying less for a week in somebody else's timeshare than it would cost to stay in our own.  

So far, so good. 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


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## MOXJO7282 (Nov 1, 2017)

You raise a good point I think.  I think the only reason to buy a TS now is if you want top quality resorts during prime season.  You said "with the cost close to MF’s" but there are some resorts that cost a real premium to rent especially during prime time so if you are someone who needs to have a 2bdrm Maui Marriott during the winter that is where ownership does present real value.  That is how I got hooked, I wanted  a 2bdrm Maui Marriott OV/OF during prime winter and the rental costs were considerably higher than MF so I had an ROI from the purchase.


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## VacationForever (Nov 1, 2017)

I am not trusting in renting from others, whether it is TUG, VRBO, AirBnB, Craigslist, Redweek etc...  For me, having full control of booking my own vacation in a nice spacious unit at a lovely resort is the most important factor in TS ownership.


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## bluehende (Nov 1, 2017)

For me it may be as simple as I am a creature of habit.  We own 2 that we have owned for up to 13 yrs.  One is a leaf week in VT.  After going for 13 yrs we still do  not even consider trading or not going.  We enjoy the same festivals and church dinners each year.  We love fall and this gives us 2 each year.   Again it is as simple as enjoying watching the same beautiful tree change each year.  We could probably replace it each year with close to our maintenance fees, but it is so simple to just pay and go.  Our other TS in in WV in late June.  This one has the same families come each year.  We have watched kids grow up and enjoy old friends every year.  This TS has very low maintenance fees so I do save a lot of money.  We are avid mountain bikers and in my estimation the two timeshares are in two of the best areas for mountain biking on the East Coast.  Purchasing (or better word accepting) timeshare ownership at these two resorts was right for us.  We always thought we would want to trade at some point as we got bored........I will let you know when that happens.


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## DaveNV (Nov 1, 2017)

For me, it's all about options.  If you rent a hotel room, you get what you get, and I've seen enough dumpster views from spendy hotel rooms to last a lifetime. I want to be able to count on better accommodations.

I owned an oceanfront resort on Kauai for a long time, and my vacations there were in the same prime unit every time.  I knew before I arrived exactly what I'd be getting for my money.  I never exchanged that ownership. Selling it was a hard choice, but I did it only after buying a week in an affiliated resort group. That gives me options of exchanging back in to the same resort (but maybe not the same unit), but also being able to internally exchange to other places in their system, for lower maintenance fees.  My next vacation will be in a great oceanfront location on Maui, which I got for about a third of the maintenance fee cost of owning there, and for a fraction of what hotel rooms rent for in the area.

But then, after all these years, I have also just bought into WorldMark so I'd gain the additional flexibility of short stays, last minute stuff, and all the perks, in addition of being able to have long-term planned trips to places I'd like to go, where an exchange may not be available.

The other thing I like is maintaining my membership in RCI, (without exchanging), which gives me access to Last Minute and Extra Vacations, so cash-based options are increased.  I have a coworker who is currently in Las Vegas at the huge SEMA auto trade show, a major event he likes attending every year.  I was able to get him a great two-bedroom unit not far from the venue.  He is sharing the cost with a close car buddy friend, and they're each paying about $35 a night to stay there.  Hotel rooms there have been booked out for a long time. We've done this sort of thing several times.

It's all about the options.  And choices. 

Dave


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## easyrider (Nov 1, 2017)

Our main timeshare benefit is snow birding. The timeshare contracts we own help keep the trip costs down and provide a bit of stability in our yearly planning for winter travel. 

The one draw back, is our dog, Rex, is not allowed to travel with us, not that we would fly him to Mexico or Hawaii anyway. Renting VRBO units that allow pets is some thing we do for summer vacations. 

Bill


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## DeniseM (Nov 1, 2017)

-Larger accommodations for less than we can rent for.
-Oceanfront units for less than we can rent for.
-Knowing exactly what we are going to get.


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## Luanne (Nov 1, 2017)

My sister told me they bought theirs so that they would be forced to take vacation.


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## PigsDad (Nov 1, 2017)

Two of the weeks we own (bought resale, of course!) are weeks 51 and 52, ocean front, high floor 2BR condos on Marco Island.  We love spending the holidays there, and have a great time every year.  Our maintenance fees are about $1100 for each week -- I guarantee you cannot find equivalent accommodations for less that $2k, more likely in the $2.5-3K range (last I checked on VRBO, etc.), so we get great value from owning and using our weeks there.  And being part of the HGVC system, if there are years where we don't want to use our weeks, we can use the points at any other HGVC property and get good value there as well.

So from a purely financial side, owning timeshares save us money compared to other alternatives.  Then there are the non-tangible benefits.  Since jumping into the TS world, we take more vacations.  We travel more with friends and family.  We enjoy our vacations more.  After 13 years of ownership, I wouldn't have changed much if I were to do it all over again.

Kurt


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## rickandcindy23 (Nov 1, 2017)

We own a lot of timeshares and deposit many of them.  I know what resorts I want and will accept via exchange.  I almost always get great value.  It's a hobby, even a game for me.  

Renting timeshares is not a bad idea.  TUG has great deals via the classified ads.  

Renting private homes/condos is not a bad idea, either.  But you could have a bad experience, and who do you complain to about your rental, when you are working with the owner.  With a timeshare, you have a management company.  Some homeowners have management companies who take care of the property, but they cannot move you to a different unit.  

Also, a lot of scams happen with private homes and condos.  

We bought oceanfront on Maui because we wanted whale season.  We bought three weeks.  It's not cheap, around $1,700 per week with taxes/fees.  It goes up every year.  But what would an oceanfront 2 bedroom cost to rent during whale season? Even VRBO is very expensive, and with our resort, I know I will get one of three units, all of which are acceptable to me.


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## WinniWoman (Nov 1, 2017)

For us it was having the exact week and exact unit at the exact resort we wanted to visit every year, with the idea of exchanging as an added bonus just in case we wanted or needed to. Plus, the maintenance fees are a lot less than if we were to rent from the resort or even another owner.


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## geist1223 (Nov 1, 2017)

We own at Royal Solaris in Cabo, Worldmark, and DRI. We have taken vacations all over the World we would not have taken. Before we retired it forced us to take vacations. We like having a full Condo with  kitchen and not just a hotel room. We use all our Points every year.


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## JohnPaul (Nov 1, 2017)

It's a good question.  My brother sees us getting good use out of our timeshares and considers it but he keeps coming back to renting and being happy with it.

Along with all of the things that other people have mentioned, I think the following is a factor for me.  I love vacationing and the planning.  With timeshares I pay my maintenance fees and it's just part of my budget.  When I book I can just decide to go places and not think about the cost.  I assume it would be somewhat like deciding to go to a vacation home since going or not going isn't an additional out of pocket issue (but I'm not stuck with one vacation home location).  That doesn't mean I don't try to get the maximum benefit out of my ownership but that's part of the fun of planning.


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## geekette (Nov 1, 2017)

prepaid vacation, no wondering if I REALLY have a place to stay, known costs, no dealing with strangers on the internet.

for me, it's the most stress free way to roll and saves a ton of time.


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## artringwald (Nov 1, 2017)

Once we find a resort we really like, I  do whatever I need to so we can keep going back. On Kauai, it's a timeshare, so we bought timeshare weeks there. On Maui, it's a condo complex, so we rent from various owners. On Oahu it's a hotel, so we book directly with the hotel. With timeshare points, we have the flexibility to scout out many other locations in search of new favorites. If only we could find a nice resort, with palms trees and beaches, that was a short non-stop from Minnesota.


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## Phydeaux (Nov 1, 2017)

tturla said:


> I’m a TS owner but new at reading all the forums advice blogs regarding buying selling and trading TS’s. With all the opportunities to rent via TUG VRBO AirBnb Craigslist Redweek etc., with the cost close to MF’s, what do you all think is the main driving force behind ownership? Just curious about everyone’s thoughts.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk




Absolutely none. Timeshares are dead. To do over again, I definitely wouldn't given the fact that renters can get all of the perks with zero strings attached. I learned from my mistake.

MF's increase nearly yearly, making a TS membership non sense. Btw, no one accurately describes themselves as _timeshare owners,_ any more than they can call themselves health club owners, country club owners, or Sam's Club owners. Get your language correct folks, you're timeshare _members_. You don't own as much as a blade of grass at that ts.


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## VegasBella (Nov 1, 2017)

When I was first interested in buying a timeshare it came about shortly after my mom and her sisters sold our family's vacation home. Even though I didn't use it much I felt a loss. I felt an immediate need to create some similar experience of a vacation home for my son. So we started looking in timesharing.



DeniseM said:


> -Larger accommodations for less than we can rent for.
> -Oceanfront units for less than we can rent for.
> -Knowing exactly what we are going to get.


Yup

That last one is a big one for us. We own two fixed weeks. This makes planning nice and easy. We know where and when we're going, what kind of things the rooms have or don't have, etc. It's so nice! Husband says he gets more relaxed the closer it gets to our Summer week at CBI. He just loves that place and *knowing* we're going there and things are waiting and ready for us is a very nice feeling. It's kind of like going home.



Luanne said:


> My sister told me they bought theirs so that they would be forced to take vacation.


This is actually our other reason for timesharing. Prior to our ownerships, we would cancel about half of our trips before taking them. But the fact that with timesharing it's mostly prepaid it sort of forces you to take the vacation. Money was never really the issue for us but hubby and I both get a little pre-trip jitters just about every time and can find a million reasons to cancel. Well, that doesn't happen anymore. Rationally, it's a terrible reason to buy a timeshare. BUT it really does work for some people.



geekette said:


> prepaid vacation, no wondering if I REALLY have a place to stay, known costs, no dealing with strangers on the internet.
> 
> for me, it's the most stress free way to roll and saves a ton of time.


There is one trip I have been taking for years and years and there's no timeshare option in that location. I prefer to have a kitchen so this means I need to book a hotel, cottage or I have to do a VRBO. Well, those don't always work out the way you want them to. Yes, it's a fine option sometimes and it's great. But there are other things that are an issue. For instance, it's always a wonder how child-safe the home/apt is. They often say it's fine for kids but most of the time they never bothered to anchor TVs to the walls or move small items from toddler's reach to prevent choking. It's always HIGHLY stressful to travel in unknown accommodations when you have young kids with you.


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## breezez (Nov 1, 2017)

VacationForever said:


> I am not trusting in renting from others, whether it is TUG, VRBO, AirBnB, Craigslist, Redweek etc...  For me, having full control of booking my own vacation in a nice spacious unit at a lovely resort is the most important factor in TS ownership.


I don’t know about the full control part.  With Wyndham lately I keep my fingers crossed


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## breezez (Nov 1, 2017)

A few years back I went to Vegas with family of 4 and spent 6 days at Mandalay Bay Hotel on Strip.   I think my room was about 400SF.  It had a separate living room and bedroom.  Room with tax for 2 teens and 2 adults about $2800.  We were crammed and uncomfortable.   Had to share 1 bathroom, but had a great pool only could use once.  Breakfast in hotel for just eggs and bacon would set you back $125 easy.  Coffee about 6 bucks no fridge just their mini bar. Great if you like $9 cans of beer or $5 candy bars.

This is when I started looking at TS.

Now when I stay in 2 bedroom places typically 1200-1500sqft fireplaces for winter and still have great pools, most I can park for free.  Many times I can spend a week for $400+\-

One thing I find great about TS is they force me to take vacation and I use them a lot to see places I would not see otherwise.

This year:
Vegas 5 Days WM
St. George Utah 7 days WM
Vegas 1 Day WM
Steamboat Springs, CO 6 Days WM
Bass Lake, CA 7 Days WM
San Francisco 1 Day ES
Fort Lauderdale 3 Days WYN
Orlando 3 Days WG
Orlando 3 Days WG
Bonita Springs, FL 3 Days Hyatt

Still have left,
Orlando 5 Days at Christmas at a Vistina

What I have fun with is exchanges see what I can get.

Are they a good deal?  A good deal is a state of mind.   In my case they are completely worth it.  There is no way the wife and I would want to stay in hotels again.  In fact on way back from bass lake spent night in Embassy Suite hotel outside airport in SF it was miserable compared to our previous 7 day in a TS. But we used TS to even stay at this hotel free.

Retirement...   I see these things as an easy cost effective way to have a second home while seeing the world.

If you do get involved in TS work out an exit strategy should one of you no longer be able to travel or pass away.


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## pedro47 (Nov 1, 2017)

It forces us to take four (4) to five (5) weeks of Vacation each year.
We loved having a full kitchen, a living room; plus two (2) bedrooms and three (3) bathrooms at our disposal.


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## WalnutBaron (Nov 1, 2017)

We only own at places we love to visit, including Carmel and the Monterey Coast of California; Sedona, Arizona; Hawaii; and San Francisco. So our timeshares become a "get to" that we look forward to every year. In addition--because we own properties with high trade value--we're generally able to secure quality trades when we decide we want to visit another location. And because our Hyatt timeshares are fixed week ownerships, we know exactly the prime view we purchased and during the exact prime time of the year for us to visit. No reservations needed, just a confirmation that we plan to use our fixed week in a given year. One more thing: the space we have includes a full kitchen, a living room, 1 or 2 bedrooms with king size beds, a balcony with a great view, and a washer-dryer so we can do laundry in our room when we want/need to. 

There's one additional key advantage for certain timeshares (including two that we own): a board that answers directly to the owners, not the developer. Boards that answer to owners are a) more sensitive to carefully spending MF dollars on maintenance and upgrades; b) making sure that owners' needs are addressed; c) MF increases are usually very modest. With a VRBO rental, you own nothing and have no say with the owner.


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## mbinpa (Nov 1, 2017)

Phydeaux said:


> Absolutely none. Timeshares are dead. To do over again, I definitely wouldn't given the fact that renters can get all of the perks with zero strings attached. I learned from my mistake.
> 
> MF's increase nearly yearly, making a TS membership non sense. Btw, no one accurately describes themselves as _timeshare owners,_ any more than they can call themselves health club owners, country club owners, or Sam's Club owners. Get your language correct folks, you're timeshare _members_. You don't own as much as a blade of grass at that ts.



I have a deed and real estate tax payments that are at odds with this statement.


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## CalGalTraveler (Nov 1, 2017)

rickandcindy23 said:


> Renting private homes/condos is not a bad idea, either.  But you could have a bad experience, and who do you complain to about your rental, when you are working with the owner.  With a timeshare, you have a management company.  Some homeowners have management companies who take care of the property, but they cannot move you to a different unit.
> 
> Also, a lot of scams happen with private homes and condos.



+ 1

Interesting point.  With a rental you are stuck for the week - unless you are renting a timeshare.

I like the resort amenities at timeshares such as the gyms, pools, lounge etc. and activity/people/ocean watching from my lanai.  Cannot get this at similarly priced VRBO's and Airbnb rentals.  Hotels too cramped and expensive.

Renting timeshares for Hawaii ocean front was almost 2x the cost of maintenance fees.


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## Brett (Nov 1, 2017)

Phydeaux said:


> Absolutely none. Timeshares are dead. To do over again, I definitely wouldn't given the fact that renters can get all of the perks with zero strings attached. I learned from my mistake.
> 
> MF's increase nearly yearly, making a TS membership non sense. Btw, no one accurately describes themselves as _timeshare owners,_ any more than they can call themselves health club owners, country club owners, or Sam's Club owners. Get your language correct folks, you're timeshare _members_. You don't own as much as a blade of grass at that ts.



yes. the internet - VRBO Airbnb- trivago homeaway etc. has severely impacted the value of timeshares


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## davidvel (Nov 1, 2017)

Phydeaux said:


> MF's increase nearly yearly, making a TS membership non sense. Btw, no one accurately describes themselves as _timeshare owners,_ any more than they can call themselves health club owners, country club owners, or Sam's Club owners. Get your language correct folks, you're timeshare _members_. You don't own as much as a blade of grass at that ts.


Actually many are both hoa _members_ and property _owners_. Some are also owners of Sam's Club (WMT).


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## breezez (Nov 1, 2017)

Brett said:


> yes. the internet - VRBO Airbnb- trivago homeaway etc. has severely impacted the value of timeshares



I see these sites differently.   I have stayed at both places off Airbnb and Homeaway.   Neither compared in quality to an average 3+ star timeshare.   If something breaks in my timeshare there are maintenance guys to tend to it.   On these other sites while some have people renting rooms in houses with people living in them (Not for me) most have owners not present.   If something breaks you will deal with it over a phone and most likely just suffer.   Plus generally these people want large deposits, cleaning fee's etc.    

But these sites do have a great nitch.  Not every location is a tourist area, and these sites you can find places to stay almost any where in any town even one with 6000 people in Iowa your likely to find something.   So to me these are best used when staying outside the normal tourist destinations that you can stay at with timeshares.  The one thing these things have better than most TS is WIFI..   Resort WIFI is generally painfully slow!   

I would say these sites hurt hotel rack rates more than TS values, especially in large cities.


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## aandmrun (Nov 1, 2017)

I write this as I am enjoying my fall vacation week in Park City, Utah where we like to come for hiking.  To us, the advantage of being timeshare owners is that we end up with what I call pre-paid vacations (since my maintenance fees are paid well in advance of my travel).  Timeshares have allowed me to go to many destinations and to be able to include my grandchildren and/or daughters.  Having a nice two bedroom, two bathroom unit with a patio or balcony is much more enjoyable that a small cramped hotel room.  I enjoy the planning in advance and the many locations that we can travel to.  I say it is not for everyone, but if you like prepaying and planning at least a year in advance, it so so much fun! Also, knowing that my maintenance fees make it possible to know that my unit will be in tip top shape and well maintained is an advantage over what you may find in an Airbnb or other vacation rental.


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## sue1947 (Nov 1, 2017)

I just returned from a 32 day vacation using timeshares for all except 3 nights.  Our average cost for the timeshare stays, in 2 BR units, was about $50/night.  The Comfort Inns were $130-140/night.  
Because we had full kitchens, we cook in.  Our food bill ran about $12/day for 2 people.  
I've used VRBO etc in the past, but as each was bought out by another, they have added more and more layers of fees.  It's not just the HK fees, but also the 'booking' fees and other similar fees that are profits for each of the organizations.   I have been pricing options for next fall, and these types of rentals have all gone up too much for my taste.  I used to be able to figure $50/person/night, but it's now more like $100 but more like $150-$200/person/night.  

Bottom line, I can't afford to travel except via timeshares.  

Sue


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## stmartinfan (Nov 1, 2017)

Both options work for us. Our timeshare in St Mararten is still cheaper than renting something comparable there, so it’s been a money saver for us and we love going the location.  We also rent Vrbo and use suite type hotels for other travel because of the flexibility it gives us, especially since most of those trips are to places where timeshare isn’t an option anyway.


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## geist1223 (Nov 1, 2017)

I remember when Patti and I first bought into Worldmark. We bought it together before we were married. I put my half on a no interest Credit Card and rolled it over about every 12 to 15 months to a new no interest Credit Card. Patti pulled money from her Investment Account. When she called her Financial Advisor to Transfer the money to her Checking Account the Financial Advisor told her it was a horrible idea. Well several years later (and after trips with us to Australia and Hawaii) the Financial Advisor admitted she was wrong because we actually made full use of our Worldmark and travelled to some really nice places. You have to learn the ends and outs of whatever System you buy into and how to use it to its full potential. This year has included 2 weeks on the BI in Hawaii in January, 2 separate 1 week trips to Long Beach Washington (Spring and Fall), 2 weeks in Vancouver BC, summer week in Seaside Oregon, and an upcoming week to Seaside Oregon. Next year we have a 3 week trip to San Jose Cabo, a one week trip to Leavenworth Washington, 2 week trip to Victoria BC, summer week to Mariner Village Washington, 1 week trip to Yellowstone with all 3 Kids and 2 Grandkids, 3 weeks in New Orleans, and our annual trip to Seaside Oregon in November. There is no way we could afford to do all this paying for Hotels and Meals. In addition we have helped a son and DIL have nice places to stay for their Bridge Tournaments, and a Nephew with Wife to return to Maui (where they were married) for their 5 year Wedding Anniversary. Yeah it has been well worth it both the initial purchase and the additional purchases.


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## VacationForever (Nov 1, 2017)

geist1223 said:


> I remember when Patti and I first bought into Worldmark. We bought it together before we were married. I put my half on a no interest Credit Card and rolled it over about every 12 to 15 months to a new no interest Credit Card. Patti pulled money from her Investment Account. When she called her Financial Advisor to Transfer the money to her Checking Account the Financial Advisor told her it was a horrible idea.



When we put down more $ a couple of months ago to buy Marriott DC points/week combo, I let my husband handle the request with our Financial Advisor that we needed money transferred into our checking account.  My husband wrote "We have made a purchase and we need $X to be transferred into our account."  My husband likes to keep his words brief which is great in situations like this and he avoided having the conversation about timeshare. Having said that, this Financial Advisor owns 3 platinum season weeks at Marriott's Newport Coast and conversation about buying more timeshare would probably have been uneventful.  This same Financial Advisor has been encouraging us to take the world cruise that we often joke about.  He has been quite assuring that we will do alright even when we splurge a little here and there.  I am the one who gets worried about being too spendy early in our retirement.


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## bogey21 (Nov 1, 2017)

mpumilia said:


> For us it was having the exact week and exact unit at the exact resort we wanted to visit every year....



My thinking exactly.  At my peak I had six, all Fixed Weeks/Fixed Units.  All were at HOA Controlled Independents; were bought resale (I think I paid $8,000 for the bunch) and all had relatively low MFs.

George


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## tturla (Nov 2, 2017)

Brett said:


> yes. the internet - VRBO Airbnb- trivago homeaway etc. has severely impacted the value of timeshares



This exactly what I mean. There so many options now. More inventory, same demand. So value goes down. But I agree with much of what is being said and I will likely buy another timeshare within a year. Resale of course. 


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## tturla (Nov 2, 2017)

geist1223 said:


> I remember when Patti and I first bought into Worldmark. We bought it together before we were married. I put my half on a no interest Credit Card and rolled it over about every 12 to 15 months to a new no interest Credit Card. Patti pulled money from her Investment Account. When she called her Financial Advisor to Transfer the money to her Checking Account the Financial Advisor told her it was a horrible idea. Well several years later (and after trips with us to Australia and Hawaii) the Financial Advisor admitted she was wrong because we actually made full use of our Worldmark and travelled to some really nice places. You have to learn the ends and outs of whatever System you buy into and how to use it to its full potential. This year has included 2 weeks on the BI in Hawaii in January, 2 separate 1 week trips to Long Beach Washington (Spring and Fall), 2 weeks in Vancouver BC, summer week in Seaside Oregon, and an upcoming week to Seaside Oregon. Next year we have a 3 week trip to San Jose Cabo, a one week trip to Leavenworth Washington, 2 week trip to Victoria BC, summer week to Mariner Village Washington, 1 week trip to Yellowstone with all 3 Kids and 2 Grandkids, 3 weeks in New Orleans, and our annual trip to Seaside Oregon in November. There is no way we could afford to do all this paying for Hotels and Meals. In addition we have helped a son and DIL have nice places to stay for their Bridge Tournaments, and a Nephew with Wife to return to Maui (where they were married) for their 5 year Wedding Anniversary. Yeah it has been well worth it both the initial purchase and the additional purchases.



One of the reasons I purchased is because of the “forced vacations” which I am enjoying now. Stories like yours and the list of places you’ve been to further argues for timeshare ownership. Thanks!


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## MuranoJo (Nov 2, 2017)

As others have said, we've been to places we normally wouldn't have considered.  For a very reasonable per-day cost, we've been all over the Caribbean, MX and HI.  Plus I've burned many RCI TPUs hosting two separate family reunions, using 5-7 two-bd units.  Those two family events alone make it all worthwhile.


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## Phydeaux (Nov 2, 2017)

I remember when I got my first 8-Track tape player, and did I ever think I was something special. At least I never regretted that purchase.


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## mdurette (Nov 2, 2017)

Brett said:


> yes. the internet - VRBO Airbnb- trivago homeaway etc. has severely impacted the value of timeshares



Yes, it has.   I was reading an article the other day about a young couple that rented someones house via one of these outlets.  They found the bedroom had hidden video/audio cameras in the smoke detectors!    The man that owned the place obviously was a sicko.     That one article will most likely stop me from ever considering renting a private residence!


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## VegasBella (Nov 2, 2017)

mdurette said:


> Yes, it has.   I was reading an article the other day about a young couple that rented someones house via one of these outlets.  They found the bedroom had hidden video/audio cameras in the smoke detectors!    The man that owned the place obviously was a sicko.     That one article will most likely stop me from ever considering renting a private residence!



I read about that too! Crazy!

Most of my vrbo rentals have been fine but one of them involved a swamp cooler that accidentally flooded the entry room. That was no fun. 


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## CalGalTraveler (Nov 2, 2017)

Timeshares are like credit cards. Some people who pick the right ones and manage them correctly gain great travel benefits for minimal cost. For others it is a financial disaster, and they should not touch them.


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## Phydeaux (Nov 2, 2017)

Would love to hear from just a few CPA's on their opinion of their TS's.


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## CalGalTraveler (Nov 2, 2017)

mdurette said:


> Yes, it has.   I was reading an article the other day about a young couple that rented someones house via one of these outlets.  They found the bedroom had hidden video/audio cameras in the smoke detectors!    The man that owned the place obviously was a sicko.     That one article will most likely stop me from ever considering renting a private residence!



EWWW!  At least renting a timeshare does not have this problem.


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## VacationForever (Nov 2, 2017)

Phydeaux said:


> Would love to hear from just a few CPA's on their opinion of their TS's.



You comment on CPA's opinion is really not relevant.  There are 2 types of accountants and people.  One type is a real penny pincher.  This type would not spend money on timeshare nor stay at high end resort.  They go for the cheapest possible place that they can find, if they have to spend money to go on vacation.  The other type while careful with money, understands the finer things in life and do buy timeshare as after doing the math, they understand that without timeshare, to get a similar experience it would cost them more.  I know both types and have them in my inner circle of friends and family.

You obviously have a distaste for timeshare, and you are in the minority on TUG.  Between timeshare and credit card, we have alot of great vacations that we would otherwise not have experienced nor be willing to pay for them.


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## clifffaith (Nov 2, 2017)

CalGalTraveler said:


> EWWW!  At least renting a timeshare does not have this problem.



I also saw the article on the camera in the smoke alarm. First thing I thought was that a resort maintenance man could install a camera just as easily. Although at the rate we get units with beeping smoke alarms, that is not a good place to hide one.


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## PigsDad (Nov 2, 2017)

VacationForever said:


> You comment on CPA's opinion is really not relevant.


Agreed.  The title of this thread is "What’s the true *benefit* of timeshares".  Not all benefits can be represented on a spreadsheet, as is perfectly clear by the many, many stories shared here already.  Some people just can't understand that, it seems.

Kurt


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## breezez (Nov 2, 2017)

geist1223 said:


> I remember when Patti and I first bought into Worldmark. We bought it together before we were married. I put my half on a no interest Credit Card and rolled it over about every 12 to 15 months to a new no interest Credit Card. Patti pulled money from her Investment Account. When she called her Financial Advisor to Transfer the money to her Checking Account the Financial Advisor told her it was a horrible idea. Well several years later (and after trips with us to Australia and Hawaii) the Financial Advisor admitted she was wrong because we actually made full use of our Worldmark and travelled to some really nice places. You have to learn the ends and outs of whatever System you buy into and how to use it to its full potential. This year has included 2 weeks on the BI in Hawaii in January, 2 separate 1 week trips to Long Beach Washington (Spring and Fall), 2 weeks in Vancouver BC, summer week in Seaside Oregon, and an upcoming week to Seaside Oregon. Next year we have a 3 week trip to San Jose Cabo, a one week trip to Leavenworth Washington, 2 week trip to Victoria BC, summer week to Mariner Village Washington, 1 week trip to Yellowstone with all 3 Kids and 2 Grandkids, 3 weeks in New Orleans, and our annual trip to Seaside Oregon in November. There is no way we could afford to do all this paying for Hotels and Meals. In addition we have helped a son and DIL have nice places to stay for their Bridge Tournaments, and a Nephew with Wife to return to Maui (where they were married) for their 5 year Wedding Anniversary. Yeah it has been well worth it both the initial purchase and the additional purchases.



I’m envious . Can’t wait to get to a point I can take this many trips.  I am excited to retire in a few years, except the part of getting old I am squinting trying to type this on my phone.


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## breezez (Nov 2, 2017)

VacationForever said:


> Between timeshare and credit card, we have alot of great vacations that we would otherwise not have experienced nor be willing to pay for them.



Ditto - My last trip, flew round trip to SF, on Southwest $22.40 for 2 people,  Have  SW Companion pass for wife and points for mine.  Got points paying MF on timeshares.   Chrysler Pacifica Mini Van for 8 days rental from Alamo.  $25 exchange fee +41K RCI points already in a new account I took over (took over 2 with almost 500K Points already in them) Stayed at Bass Lake in 2 Bedroom Town House WM Resort. $530 based on point costs.  Stayed my last night at SF Embasy Suites Hotel by airport free again 40K Hilton Points again from cards used to pay travel and dining expense.

We ate all but 3 meals in our unit and packed lunches for our hikes.

Rental Mini Van, Air Fare and Lodging $577.40.  There is no way I could take trips like this and as many as I do unless I make CC reward cards work with my TS.  Groceries and Dining about anther $300 bucks.

I took family of 4 to Vegas twice this year on SW free RT

Wife and I flew to Denver for free on SW RT

Wife and I flew to SF for free on SW RT

And at Thanksgiving we are flying SW again for free RT this time to Minneapolis 

You got to love SW Companion Pass, it’s a bummer they stopped the loop hole of of partner points counting.  But at least I got 1 more year left and now they will fly to HI I hear


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## Jan M. (Nov 2, 2017)

VacationForever said:


> There are 2 types of accountants and people. One type is a real penny pincher. This type would not spend money on timeshare nor stay at high end resort. They go for the cheapest possible place that they can find, if they have to spend money to go on vacation. The other type while careful with money, understands the finer things in life and do buy timeshare as after doing the math, they understand that without timeshare, to get a similar experience it would cost them more. I know both types and have them in my inner circle of friends and family.



We know exactly how that goes. My now deceased MIL was a real penny pincher unless it was something she wanted for herself. She could have well afforded a timeshare but saw no value in spending money on something that would have benefited her five children and their families. We used to avoid mentioning our timeshare purchase around my husband's family. Then we sent my MIL and her gentleman friend to Kingsgate for week in a two bedroom unit when they were talking about visiting his daughter who lives in Newport News. They were very impressed. Next we sent my SIL and some friends of theirs for a week at Ocean Boulevard in a three bedroom ocean front unit. We offered his oldest brother, his wife, their two grown children and their families who live in Indianapolis a 4 night weekend stay at Glacier Canyon at the end of July in a 4 bedroom presidential. This SIL periodically gets mad at different family members and doesn't speak to them for a while. I may have been on her list at that time or there might truly have been a valid reason. However she just turned it down without offering it to their son, his wife and 2 kids because she doesn't like his wife. My husband said to cross her and his brother off the list and next time I have something to just call our nephew and offer is to them and leave that SIL out of it.

My sister and her family have benefited from our timeshares but we have stayed with them at their timeshare too. It was my sister and BIL that we called before we made the decision to buy our first timeshare. My BIL is very shrewd at managing and investing money and they said they never regretted buying their timeshare which they have owned for 35 years now.
,


aandmrun said:


> the advantage of being timeshare owners is that we end up with what I call pre-paid vacations (since my maintenance fees are paid well in advance of my travel)



We never even have to give any thought to what the lodging part of our vacations cost. And that is pretty darn sweet! I always get cheap flights with the discount airlines, really good deals on rental cars and depending on where we go we eat some to most of our meals in our unit so vacations aren't a luxury item in our family finances like they were before we bought our first timeshare. My husband often says that back before we bought our first timeshare we would never in our wildest dreams have imagined vacationing like we've done since then.

Our son and his wife took their daughter to Kalahari Waterpark for her 6th birthday in August. She had never stayed in a hotel before and wasn't impressed with their room. Our son told her that it would be fine because they were just going to sleep in the room as they would be so busy at the waterpark but she was still doubtful. Our son and DIL called laughing to tell us how spoiled their daughter is thanks to us. I have a reservation for them to go to Glacier Canyon this summer for her birthday so even the waterpark at Kalahari won't impress her after that.   We have another year to wait until their second daughter is old enough, must be close to 3 years old, to get spoiled by spending time with Grandma and Papa and going Disneyworld, Legoland and Sanibel like her big sister. Before our oldest granddaughter started school this Fall she would come to Florida 3-4 times a year and we usually went to both Orlando and Sanibel. People would tell our son and DIL that just one week at either would be a big vacation for their families and their daughter did both multiple times a year. Gotta love timeshares!


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## klpca (Nov 2, 2017)

I think that there are a lot of accountants on this site who own timeshares. 

My daughter is staying at a airbnb as we speak (in fairness, there are no timeshares nearby). She and her husband are comfortable camping, but chose to stay at an airbnb this time so that they didn't have to haul all their gear across the country. Here is a quote from her email: "The cozy cabin is an exercise in letting go. On the plus side, it's warm and most things are functional. On the down side, the floor has angles that make me question the structural integrity of the cabin, and we are vacationing with a lot of spiders. It is challenging when running the dishwasher means no running water for the next 8 hours. Surprise! That was a fun discovery."

We have stayed in owner rentals in the years preceding our first timeshare purchase, and there was always something that happened during our trip. I have stayed and waited for the cable repair man to arrive, I have found used syringes in an unmade bed, we have shown up for our stay to encounter an uncleaned house because there was a miscommunication between the owner and the housekeeper. In the end, _we_ had to deal with it. The photos on the websites can be inaccurate and misleading. I am sure that there are great places out there, but timeshares are consistent if nothing else.

For us, timeshares are definitely less expensive than most rentals, especially if I can lockoff and use half to exchange into a good property. We are headed to Westin Nanea this month for about $100 per night. How can you complain about that?


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## geekette (Nov 2, 2017)

breezez said:


> I see these sites differently.   I have stayed at both places off Airbnb and Homeaway.   ...



The last thing I want for vacation is to spend it in the home of a stranger.  It just does not feel right to me.  

You mention many of my issues with it.

Location can be an issue, but I can suck it up and pay for a hotel.  I just cannot get over the creepy feeling of staying in someone else's home.


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## geekette (Nov 2, 2017)

mdurette said:


> Yes, it has.   I was reading an article the other day about a young couple that rented someones house via one of these outlets.  They found the bedroom had hidden video/audio cameras in the smoke detectors!    The man that owned the place obviously was a sicko.     That one article will most likely stop me from ever considering renting a private residence!


then the murder in Australia will completely seal it for you.


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## geist1223 (Nov 2, 2017)

I forgot to mention last January's 2 week trip to the BI Hawaii and next year's 3 week trip to New Orleans are with DRI.


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## rboesl (Nov 2, 2017)

Prior to buying our first timeshare our vacations were at 2-3 star hotels to keep cost under control or, prior to that, using a tent camper. While we did enjoy those vacations they always created some "memories" which were not always the kind you want to have. Now we're always sure of a certain level of comfort.

Beyond the comfort and quality issues there's cost. And there's 2 components there. First, our costs now are similar to what our costs were before. Second, ever since our first vacation using a timeshare I have kept a spreadsheet. That spreadsheet compares timeshare expense (basically maintenance fees) to the going rate for the same resort same room size from sites like Expedia or Orbitz. That spreadsheet tells me that over that time we have enjoyed that level of comfort for $40k less than those who booked at those other sites.

So over all:

higher level of quality
higher level of comfort & amenities
cost containment
locations we never would have visited otherwise
vacations are planned well ahead of time


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## winger (Nov 3, 2017)

geist1223 said:


> I forgot to mention last January's 2 week trip to the BI Hawaii and next year's 3 week trip to New Orleans are with DRI.


Which properties are DRI's in New Orleans and BI ?


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## winger (Nov 3, 2017)

Just came across this today (ex-coworker sent to me). Interesting reading.

https://www.reddit.com/r/personalfi...are_ownership_is_never_a_good_financial_idea/


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## WinniWoman (Nov 3, 2017)

geekette said:


> The last thing I want for vacation is to spend it in the home of a stranger.  It just does not feel right to me.
> 
> You mention many of my issues with it.
> 
> Location can be an issue, but I can suck it up and pay for a hotel.  I just cannot get over the creepy feeling of staying in someone else's home.



Very true. That's another downside. Also, usually they have all kinds of idiosyncrasies- like don't put the AC on too much or will be a charge- things like that.

If I am staying somewhere a whole week, I need to have a lot of room, so hotel rooms don't cut it. Sometimes something like a Homewood Suite might work, but still not the same as a condo or home.

Unfortunately, there are no timeshares near the lake we like to stay on- though there is a resort that has no TV's and no AC-little cottages. That doesn't cut it for us. And there is another, but it is filled to the brink with families with little kids and it costs a fortune. 

So once in a while we rent a small home or cottage through Home Away- but I still like staying at resorts best.


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## VegasBella (Nov 3, 2017)

PigsDad said:


> Agreed.  The title of this thread is "What’s the true *benefit* of timeshares".  Not all benefits can be represented on a spreadsheet, as is perfectly clear by the many, many stories shared here already.  Some people just can't understand that, it seems.


Agreed.
Most timeshares are a LUXURY, like expensive cars, gym memberships, belonging to a country club, owning collectibles, etc. It doesn't make 'financial sense' to someone who doesn't value the luxury. 

But there are also some timeshares that make perfect financial sense or are even lucrative for some people. At their essence, timeshares are inefficient. That inefficiency can be exploited by smart people who study the system and make it work for them, at either a large or small scale. For instance, a number of us own timeshares that we could turn around tomorrow and sell at a profit; they are true assets. We are in the minority of timeshare owners though. *Most timeshare owners do not put in even the same amount of effort into research as they would for a car and all those people are WHY the timeshare market is so inefficient.*


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## geist1223 (Nov 3, 2017)

DRI has Agreements with various Timeshares that allow direct Booking through DRI. There are several on the BI Hawaii. We stayed at Sea Mountain that is a short walk from the Black Sand Beach not far from South Point. The one in NOLA is Frenchman on Frenchman Street. DRI advertises that it has 350+ Resorts. Actually it owns or manages far less but has Agreements with many organizations.

In addition there are the stays through Club Select/Club Combinations. This is where DRI Members that are Club Members have traded in other timeshare stays for DRI Points. These trades are done on an annual basis not a permanent basis. DRI makes these available to Members for DRI Points or cash. I believe they make them available to non-Club Members for Cash but at a higher rate than Club Members.


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## CalGalTraveler (Nov 3, 2017)

1) Bob Brinker, a reputable financial manager and 25 year radio talk show host, states that when you have achieved critical mass with your money, you should enjoy some of your money. He cautions about hoarders who are the _"richest people in the cemetery."_

2) My DH and I have worked very hard for 30+ years.  We can easily afford $300/month or so for several weeks of timesharing per year, and we own prime properties where rentals will cover the maintenance fees at a profit if we opt not to travel. *If spending time until the day I die in a Hawaii oceanfront lanai watching the world (and whales) go by, or spending a week skiing in Park City is considered hell...I will gladly sign up! *


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## klpca (Nov 3, 2017)

VegasBella said:


> Agreed.
> Most timeshares are a LUXURY, like expensive cars, gym memberships, belonging to a country club, owning collectibles, etc. It doesn't make 'financial sense' to someone who doesn't value the luxury.
> 
> But there are also some timeshares that make perfect financial sense or are even lucrative for some people. At their essence, timeshares are inefficient. That inefficiency can be exploited by smart people who study the system and make it work for them, at either a large or small scale. For instance, a number of us own timeshares that we could turn around tomorrow and sell at a profit; they are true assets. We are in the minority of timeshare owners though. *Most timeshare owners do not put in even the same amount of effort into research as they would for a car and all those people are WHY the timeshare market is so inefficient.*



Your bolded part is the absolute truth. Tuggers work the system to our advantage. There has to be a loser on the other side. Those are the profoundly unhappy timeshare owners. I have a friend who regularly loses use of her Maui week. She only wants to travel in February, yet she always waits until Sept/Oct to reserve. We talk about planning ahead all the time, yet in the end she always waits to reserve and gets skunked. The next step of course, would be to reserve anything and get it deposited to Interval. Sometimes she does, sometimes she doesn't. If she deposits to Interval she doesn't set up OGS and doesn't do a manual search until her deposit is about to expire. She is pretty bitter and I am not surprised. I call her to let her know about good sightings on Interval, but then she wants to "think about it". She's really not suited to anything but a fixed week timeshare.



CalGalTraveler said:


> 1) Bob Brinker, a reputable financial manager and 25 year radio talk show host, states that when you have achieved critical mass with your money, you should enjoy some of your money. He cautions about hoarders who are the _"richest people in the cemetery."_
> 
> 2) My DH and I have worked very hard for 30+ years.  We can easily afford $300/month or so for several weeks of timesharing per year. * If spending time until the day I die in a Hawaii oceanfront lanai watching the world (and whales) go by, or spending a week skiing in Park City is considered hell...I will gladly sign up! *



Making the transition from saver to spender has been surprisingly difficult, although I am starting to get the hang of it!


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## JohnPaul (Nov 3, 2017)

klpca said:


> I have a friend who regularly loses use of her Maui week.  .....   *She's really not suited to anything but a fixed week timeshare.*



As a person who loves the flexibility of points, I often have a hard time understanding the appeal of fixed weeks.  You just provided another example of when it makes sense.




klpca said:


> Your bolded part is the absolute truth. Tuggers work the system to our advantage. There has to be a loser on the other side. Those are the profoundly unhappy timeshare owners. I have a friend who regularly loses use of her Maui week. She only wants to travel in February, yet she always waits until Sept/Oct to reserve. We talk about planning ahead all the time, yet in the end she always waits to reserve and gets skunked. The next step of course, would be to reserve anything and get it deposited to Interval. Sometimes she does, sometimes she doesn't. If she deposits to Interval she doesn't set up OGS and doesn't do a manual search until her deposit is about to expire. She is pretty bitter and I am not surprised. I call her to let her know about good sightings on Interval, but then she wants to "think about it". *She's really not suited to anything but a fixed week timeshare.*


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## WinniWoman (Nov 3, 2017)

JohnPaul said:


> As a person who loves the flexibility of points, I often have a hard time understanding the appeal of fixed weeks.  You just provided another example of when it makes sense.



Well- I love fixed week because of the simplicity. I just show up. But even so, I have exchanged a lot over the years past- planning usually 2 years ahead.


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## elaine (Nov 3, 2017)

I see less value than 10 years ago. Our fixed weeks worked great until our vacation patterns changed. IMHO, "cash is king" is making more sense now, esp. when having the ability to rent from owners. I have a prime beach week, which we no longer use. We used it 50% and got very good trades (Bermuda, Banff, DVC 4X) with it. It gets me enough TPU or RCI points to justify keeping it (barely). For other TS we stopped using, I got tired of "managing" that portfolio and "having" to find a TS rather that the place/location we wanted to stay, so I gave away another fixed beach week (bought on ebay 10 years ago), and deeded back another to the resort. We then bought more DVC points, which I luv! Easy to use, easy to rent, (for the past 10 years) easy to sell when we no longer want them. More $$ annual fee for lodging than I would pay for RCI trade, but ease and onsite WDW wins out. DVC was definitely a luxury purchase vs. economic TS purchase for place to stay (other beach weeks).


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## clifffaith (Nov 3, 2017)

geekette said:


> The last thing I want for vacation is to spend it in the home of a stranger.  It just does not feel right to me.
> 
> You mention many of my issues with it.
> 
> Location can be an issue, but I can suck it up and pay for a hotel.  I just cannot get over the creepy feeling of staying in someone else's home.



My cousin and his wife do home exchanges. I can't begin to imagine having strangers in my home, let alone using my car as often is the case. They love this mode of traveling and have been all over the world. Every time Cliff starts in that home exchange sounds like a good idea I bring up the expense of boarding four cats. No way I'm leaving my cats at the mercy of strangers, even if they are the greatest cat lovers ever. My cousin's dog stays with a neighbor. Once more than 15 years ago we stayed at a "bed and breakfast" in the Vancouver area and it turned out to be a room with separate entrance through a muddy yard to someone's home. The woman was pleasant enough, afternoon tea and morning breakfast was served on a tray in our room, but that was enough to convince me that staying in someone else's home wasn't for me.


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## geekette (Nov 3, 2017)

clifffaith said:


> My cousin and his wife do home exchanges. I can't begin to imagine having strangers in my home, let alone using my car as often is the case. They love this mode of traveling and have been all over the world. Every time Cliff starts in that home exchange sounds like a good idea I bring up the expense of boarding four cats. No way I'm leaving my cats at the mercy of strangers, even if they are the greatest cat lovers ever. My cousin's dog stays with a neighbor. Once more than 15 years ago we stayed at a "bed and breakfast" in the Vancouver area and it turned out to be a room with separate entrance through a muddy yard to someone's home. The woman was pleasant enough, afternoon tea and morning breakfast was served on a tray in our room, but that was enough to convince me that staying in someone else's home wasn't for me.


oooohhh, the B&B!!

ugh

I think it was an episode of Everybody Loves Raymond that enlightened me.  It's not YOUR vacation, you are guests and expected to have breakfast at (whatever time they like to have breakfast) and join them for (activity you would never ever choose for yourself) and then dinner at (say what!  Even grandma didn't eat that early!)

on the show, guests shared one bathroom.  Um, NO.


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## WinniWoman (Nov 3, 2017)

geekette said:


> oooohhh, the B&B!!
> 
> ugh
> 
> ...




Yup. We are too private to ever stay in a bed and breakfast or a hostel or anything like that.


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## breezez (Nov 3, 2017)

winger said:


> Just came across this today (ex-coworker sent to me). Interesting reading.
> 
> https://www.reddit.com/r/personalfi...are_ownership_is_never_a_good_financial_idea/



Just confirms to me this guy doesn’t know much....   His loss is my gain.

I have no doubt in my mind I could recoupe my original purchase price if I sold all my TS.   Even if I gave my Wyndham away for free. 

But doesn’t really matter so what if you pay maintenance fees.  This is just that the cost to maintain the resort, sure some places could do a better job fiscally.

I challenge this idiot to go buy a house that doesn’t have fees after you buy it.  (Taxes, Grass needs mowed, pool cleaned and chemicals kept up.  Electricity, Water, Gas, Trash, Landscaping Maintenance, General House Maintenance, AC filters, AC Maintenance, toilet parts needing changed, garbage disposalers worn out, cable tv, Internet service and the list goes on.)

They also provide items.  Toilet paper, dish soap, dishwasher powder, shampoo, soap, laundry detergent, etc.  Then somebody cleans the place when I move out.  Washes all the linens, dumps the ice maker cleans all appliances etc.

Many have amenities beside pools free of charge: Bikes, Beach Chairs, Cabana’s, Fitness centers, Saunas, shuttle buses etc.

What you pay developer or if bought resale is just for the right to use or a sunk in cost for a given interval or amount of points, you may recover or not these cost if you sell one day. I would say plan on getting zero and be happy if you get more one day.  

The MF’s are the cost to run the place, pay property taxes on your portion, and provide reserves to replace / upgrade unit over time.  Finally if your in a system with a group you can internal trade into, then you will have a club fee to manage the people and systems to process the internal exchanges.

So while paying them may seem a pain. This is what actual covers the cost of your stay.

I have yet to stay in a TS where I could have stayed in like facility at a hotel for less money.


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## CalGalTraveler (Nov 3, 2017)

breezez said:


> Just confirms to me this guy doesn’t know much....   His loss is my gain.



Agree.

The problem is that the article is financial advice for the masses; the author will get sued if someone loses money from their advice.

So people read lowest common denominator generic advice intended to avoid all risk. For example, most of these financial pundits will also will say that people should *never* have credit cards, don't waste money on travel, and forget starting your own business (and keep your crappy corporate job) just because there is risk involved.

Good advice for the masses who live paycheck to paycheck, but not for those who understand calculated risk and know how to take steps to reduce it, or are financially stable so the risk is small. The problem arises when people see advice apply to their situation, and then they preach to others that it should apply to everyone.


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## Icc5 (Nov 4, 2017)

We feel our timeshares have worked well for us.  We already owned our house and started time sharing when the kids were 7 and 1 and are now 33 and 27 so we have enjoyed more then our share of family vacations.  Between owning  3 different week units and 1 point system along with using RCI and bonus time we've probably been on 110-130 fun times.  We also only bought when we had the cash saved up so no interest.
An example for us twice recently is we started doing some cruises again after not doing them for several years.  After each cruise we added timeshares at the end of each cruise.  One cruise went thru the Panama Canal from San Diego to Florida.  The extra time in Florida let us visit with snowbird relatives from Wisconsin that we hadn't seen in years.  The second was a New England Cruise from New York to Quebec City and then having the chance to spend the extra time in and around Quebec City.
This has worked great for us and even with some up and downs overall I would say they have worked to give us a pretty good life.
Bart


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## remowidget (Nov 4, 2017)

Phydeaux said:


> I remember when I got my first 8-Track tape player, and did I ever think I was something special. At least I never regretted that purchase.


Why are you active on a timeshare site if you are so anti time share. 

I'll admit that I have had periods of regrets, but those have all been about money. I spent a $100k on my three weeks. In the end though, it's just money. We have wasted a ton on cars, buying and trading. The homes we have lived in have been money sinks too. There have been years in which we have spent tons of money eating out and my wife loves herself a $5 cup of coffee, which can add up. My aunt just dropped $10k on a video system turning her third garage into a tv room. I have spent tons of money on computers and phones. A new iPhone is over a grand.

Over the last 7 years we have used almost every Star option of our ownership. We have dropped a day or two worth here or there because we chose not to pay to bank them, but we have travelled a ton. One of the big selling points for us was that we knew we would use it if we bought.  If we hadn't,  we would have spent the money just the same, but on other things. We wouldn't have traveled a fraction of what we do if we hadn't made our purchase.

I'm not a CPA, but my Bachelors is in Accounting. Is a timeshare a good investment, no. Although, I think a good case could be made for it by purchasing on the aftermarket. Our homes have not been good investments either, we would have been way better off financially staying in the apartment we lived in 27 years ago and investing the savings. We would have had a very substantial nest egg, but a very different life. The same is true of our timeshare. Our life would have been very different over the last 7 years.

My aunt is a big time cruiser. You can easily spend $4 or 5 grand on a weeks cruise. This is my annual maintenance fee, for what is six weeks of prime vacation, or much more in the off season. The studio side is almost three times bigger than the room on a cruise ship. So, if I amortized the $100k I spent over the next 10 or 20 years in addition to the last 7, I'm confident we will have received plenty of value for our money.

We love the flexibility. Having everything built into our budget makes the planning painless. I'm not looking for the best deal, because I know what my choices are and we just decide what we want to do. We do our best to make the most of our time. 

Now if you don't use your time, it is a total waste.

Sent from my SM-T580 using Tapatalk


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## VacationForever (Nov 4, 2017)

remowidget said:


> Why are you active on a timeshare site if you are so anti time share.
> 
> I'll admit that I have had periods of regrets, but those have all been about money. I spent a $100k on my three weeks. In the end though, it's just money. We have wasted a ton on cars, buying and trading. The homes we have lived in have been money sinks too. There have been years in which we have spent tons of money eating out and my wife loves herself a $5 cup of coffee, which can add up. My aunt just dropped $10k on a video system turning her third garage into a tv room. I have spent tons of money on computers and phones. A new iPhone is over a grand.
> 
> ...


Well said!  I have literally wasted and lost about a million dollars on bad investments, large house, and whatever else that did not give a positive return.  But timeshare is not one that I would consider a waste.  I agree that good cruises cost alot more (not the Carnival ones!).  All in all, we are happy to own and use timeshare, which has also taken us to places we would not have gone to otherwise.


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## RussellSun (Nov 4, 2017)

MOXJO7282 said:


> You raise a good point I think.  I think the only reason to buy a TS now is if you want top quality resorts during prime season.  You said "with the cost close to MF’s" but there are some resorts that cost a real premium to rent especially during prime time so if you are someone who needs to have a 2bdrm Maui Marriott during the winter that is where ownership does present real value.  That is how I got hooked, I wanted  a 2bdrm Maui Marriott OV/OF during prime winter and the rental costs were considerably higher than MF so I had an ROI from the purchase.



I agree with this. We bought a Marriott oceanfront 2 bedroom in Hawaii because we absolutely must have an ocean view. We own other timeshares with guaranteed ocean views for the same reason. We also like having lots of space and the quality of upscale timeshares. We would never pay $1000+ per night in Hawaii and the other places we travel so a timeshare for us is well worth the upfront fee and maintenance fees. We travel a lot and use our timeshares. If you don't travel a lot, then it is better to rent.


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## RussellSun (Nov 4, 2017)

DeniseM said:


> -Larger accommodations for less than we can rent for.
> -Oceanfront units for less than we can rent for.
> -Knowing exactly what we are going to get.



This is exactly why I have 3 timeshares!


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## skimeup (Nov 4, 2017)

I'll add in here something that I have not seen and that is access to suites in cities at a great rate.  I am an opera nut as well as a nature lover.  So my timeshares were split between access to cities and access to ocean or scenic areas.  I am a happy owner at Royal Holiday (which makes me a very rare bird, I think!).  I get access to extremely competitive costs in suites in San Diego (ocean front), San Francisco, Chicago, New York, London, Paris, Rome, Bruges, Berlin, etc.  Some of these come with an extra cost per night and some with tax, but they are still half the cost of the online or tripadvisor/cheap hotel search costs.  I can roll over my points and plan to use them to spend two months in Europe in the next couple of years.  This year, I am renting out almost all my points to friends so we can stay at the Manhattan Club (NYC) together for the Metropolitan Opera Auditions and a series of operas -  covering my mf's and giving me a virtually free ten days in New York.  I also own at Inn at the Opera in SF (stayed away from Shell Vacations and now Wyndham), because I use the week to attend SF opera.

I divested myself of weeks in Santa Fe and Sedona because I have had great results with airbnb or tug rentals and don't have to make payments far in advance to get the time I want.  (Well, I also wanted nothing to do with DRI which drove me  to ditch weeks at Los Abrigados in Sedona.  Even though I did not join DRI when it took over Los Ab, my mf's doubled and my ability to make reservation changes became very restricted).  

I am currently looking at a resale for a Hyatt - they are in lovely places and all are wonderful.  Some have very reasonable mf's. Looking at some of the resort area timeshares, like Marriott and Vistana, I see mf's that have gone sky high.  That means I could pick them up on ebay for almost nothing but I'd have an mf of almost $2000 per year.  Since I am not a Hawaii or generally a resort person and I don't play golf, those have no allure for me.

So there are indeed many considerations to look at with the array of options available to us now.  I am hearing horror stories about airbnb and vrbo here, but we have had wonderful family trips where we've rented an eight bedroom place with a pool and a four bedroom "cottage" and housed over 30 of us for a long weekend for a wedding.  Think long and hard about your likely travel "wants" before buying into a timeshare.  And do buy resale so if you make a mistake and need to ditch what you bought, you won't lose a lot of $$$$!


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## SusanRN (Nov 4, 2017)

When I was growing up, my family visited the Adirondacks and the Finger Lakes every summer, staying at the lakefront cottages belonging to my paternal and maternal grandparents. I don't want the hassle, or the cost, of owning a second home, but I want my grandchildren to have that same comfort of going to the same place year after year, so I have mid-June and mid-August weeks in Ocean City, MD -- not classy, but a lot of fun for the kids. And before they had kids, my daughters used to take their friends there. Well worth it to me.
   I also have two timeshares I go to occasionally and exchange the rest of the time (New Year's in New Orleans and float in Branson). It works for now, but maybe not forever.
   I also had three I bought unwisely and was able to give back (whew). 
Susan


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## JohnPaul (Nov 4, 2017)

Not a reason to buy but a great side benefit is bonus time.  In most cases bonus time is available about two weeks before check in.

Using Shell, I often stay in a hotel room at Inn at the Opera in San Francisco on a weekday for $30 plus the $17.50 on line reservation fee (and you get breakfast there).  So if I want two night its $60 plus $17.50.

With WM they have a unique cancellation policy based on when you reserve (the closer to check in you reserve the closer to check in you can cancel without penalty).  Some reservations can be cancelled up to two days before check in.   So, when we had a medical situation in the summer of 2016 and had to keep coming back to Seattle 4 unplanned times I was able to book a last minute timeshare at The Camlin in downtown Seattle for around $75 instead of $300 - $500 for a hotel room. (Well for 3 of the 4 times.)

With Vacation Internationale we are Prestige Platinum.   That means that we can book bonus time at 40 days out and pay half the already ridiculously low rate of $75 a night for a two bedroom.

On a similar, but not quite the same note, with Worldmark you can also book Monday Madness and Inventory specials at very reasonable rates.  For example, we are staying in the ONLY unit at Worldmark Lake Tahoe that has amazing Lake Views next week.  It is a two bedroom unit and we are paying $55 a night including taxes and housekeeping (Inventory Special).


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## jimlocke007 (Nov 4, 2017)

AwayWeGo said:


> For us, it's luxury vacation accommodations at Motel 6 & Super 8 rates.
> 
> Obviously, we're resale all the way on timeshares.  Plus, we take advantage of RCI _Last Call_, etc., typically paying less for a week in somebody else's timeshare than it would cost to stay in our own.
> 
> ...


As former owners in Space Coast, FL and Hilton Head we hope you take  the advice of one respondent and plan your exit strategy now.  It took us 10 years to give away our timeshares...yes, I did not say "sell".  We actually gave away $5000 worth of incentives such as prepaid maintenance, banked weeks, etc. to our "buyers" and we kissed their hands. There is no resale market in timeshares except maybe for selective prime weeks at the major hotel and resort companies.  We owned smaller independent units and NOT on bad weeks.  I read recently there are 600 sellers for every buyer of used timeshare.  The resale market has an seemingly unlimited supply at $1 but no demand.  As a marketing MBA, I don't have to get out old text books to figure this one out...hence our "negative pricing" of offering incentives.  As the Internet is killing Sears, Macy's, traditional taxis etc.,  younger people, like my 30-something daughter who DID NOT want our timeshare, use all the Internet offerings Airbnb, etc.etc. etc.  Demographics are against this business.    It is "aging out" and surviving on the ill-informed consumers who fall for the pitches and unrealistic prices.  Lew and Amanda  Gaithersburg MD


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## Panina (Nov 4, 2017)

The benefit to me is knowing I can go to exactly where I want, when I want, with the view I want at a great price. My maintenance fees are much less then renting or hotels.


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## WinniWoman (Nov 5, 2017)

remowidget said:


> Why are you active on a timeshare site if you are so anti time share.
> 
> I'll admit that I have had periods of regrets, but those have all been about money. I spent a $100k on my three weeks. In the end though, it's just money. We have wasted a ton on cars, buying and trading. The homes we have lived in have been money sinks too. There have been years in which we have spent tons of money eating out and my wife loves herself a $5 cup of coffee, which can add up. My aunt just dropped $10k on a video system turning her third garage into a tv room. I have spent tons of money on computers and phones. A new iPhone is over a grand.
> 
> ...




This is so right on! I have never regretted our timeshare ownerships.   I have some financial investments I made that I regretted for sure.

I love my home, but I often times regret purchasing it because the market sunk where we live and we will need to sell our home in a few years to move. Meanwhile, although the value of the home has barely moved in 30 years, we have put a ton of money into it- maintaining and upgrading. Why? Because we live in it and want to at least enjoy our time in it! The money we put into it helps to make our lives easier. And ownership of the home and our 10.5 acres of land has certainly been better than living in some crummy apartment paying thousands per month in rent next to some low life neighbors. The buying of this home marked the birth of our son (who will be 30 years old in February) and a lot of memories and security this home has brought to us. Can't put a price on that! It's just the location of the house- we probably should have bought in a better area, but who knew the market would change 30 years later?

Our timeshares I would say are also one of the best things we have ever acquired! They have improved our otherwise fairly drab lives. We always have something to look forward to. We get to travel- something neither my husband or I ever did when we were kids.

True- if we can't dispose of them (the timeshares and the house!) when we are ready, that will be tough. But we could never say we regretted having them.


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## CalGalTraveler (Nov 5, 2017)

jimw6nrj said:


> As former owners in Space Coast, FL and Hilton Head we hope you take  the advice of one respondent and plan your exit strategy now.  It took us 10 years to give away our timeshares...yes, I did not say "sell".  We actually gave away $5000 worth of incentives such as prepaid maintenance, banked weeks, etc. to our "buyers" and we kissed their hands. There is no resale market in timeshares except maybe for selective prime weeks at the major hotel and resort companies.  We owned smaller independent units and NOT on bad weeks.  I read recently there are 600 sellers for every buyer of used timeshare.  The resale market has an seemingly unlimited supply at $1 but no demand.  As a marketing MBA, I don't have to get out old text books to figure this one out...hence our "negative pricing" of offering incentives.



I agree that timeshares require extra attention to an exit strategy. The real estate bromide, "Location, Location, Location" rings particularly true. Oceanfront Maui, Oahu, NYC and other premium locations will always have willing takers. If a low resale price was paid, selling at a low price or giving away after 20 years should not matter.  This is what happens to old RVs, cars, and boats, right? The difference is that if a timeshare is well maintained, it should be tastefully updated and useful after 20 years.

You are correct that the reputation of who is managing also matters (e.g. Hilton, Marriott, ILG, Disney among the best).

We regret buying our first timeshare from the developer and paying more than we should have. However we were fortunate that the property was in a premium location with a reputable management company (Hilton), and the maintenance fees are reasonable. The quality of the product is excellent so we don't regret owning a timeshare.

The greed of the timeshare industry has led to its poor reputation. Similar to stock market downturns, some people are panicking to exit causing bargain resale prices for some extraordinary properties.


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## CalGalTraveler (Nov 5, 2017)

jimw6nrj said:


> As the Internet is killing Sears, Macy's, traditional taxis etc.,  younger people, like my 30-something daughter who DID NOT want our timeshare, use all the Internet offerings Airbnb, etc.etc. etc.  Demographics are against this business.    It is "aging out" and surviving on the ill-informed consumers who fall for the pitches and unrealistic prices.



I agree with the trend to rent Airbnb and VRBO, however I view this as an opportunity not a threat.  Is there a rule that stops timeshare owners from listing their units on AirBnB or VRBO to cater to this crowd?

It seems that timeshares offer a superior benefit because renters gain the ability to get immediate attention or switch rooms if there is an issue, and offer name-brand resorts which gives a sense of quality/better amenities vs. an unknown home. (BTW...this is what I learned from Tuggers on this thread.)

I am curious if owners could gain a nice premium marketing through these channels to these audiences?  I also believe that Airbnb offers a performance guarantee to renters and issues security deposit insurance which should reduce scams.

Lastly, it appears from recent research that younger people are buying into timeshares.  Infographic below states that the average age is 39, with 39% GenXers and 30% Millenials.  42% rented first before buying.

For those who no longer want to use their timeshare or cannot sell it, *perhaps renting could offset maint. expenses and expand the resale market by gaining awareness among future resale buyers in the form of rent-to-own possibilities or try and buy (apply the rent to the sale if they decide to purchase after renting it).*


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## 2turners (Nov 5, 2017)

TS owners for over 20 years with 7 TS in St Maarten. When we lived in Long Island could not wait for our 3 to 5 weeks in St. Maarten with family and friends. Retired and moved to Florida. Everything changed, children grew up, etc. RCI trades we have tried all over the USA but in our case we always got what I considered the bottom quality of the units. The older ones with less than desirable views. For what we pay in MF we can have a prime unit with a prime view anywhere we want to go. Trades for Disney with RCI have worked a little better but cost of TS is still higher than rentals. Bottom line for us TS are an expensive way to vacation. The MF have increase to the point the TS have no value. All our TS are for sale with no hope of ever recouping initial cost of TS. Looking back TS are not the way to go. Initial costs are just to high. Comparing yearly MF for what you can rent for is unrealistic. You must factor in your intial costs, RCI fees, cleaning fees and some just plain gotcha fees in comparison to what you can rent for.


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## Timeshare Von (Nov 5, 2017)

VacationForever said:


> I am not trusting in renting from others, whether it is TUG, VRBO, AirBnB, Craigslist, Redweek etc...  For me, having full control of booking my own vacation in a nice spacious unit at a lovely resort is the most important factor in TS ownership.



Good point regarding the "control" issue . . . I've been very fortunate renting from TUG and AirBnB . . . but I've also had a bad experience or two as well.


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## Timeshare Von (Nov 5, 2017)

I bought my first timeshare contract, a "Right To Use" arrangement in the Poconos back in the early 1980's.  As the termination of that agreement approached, I had been able to travel to many places I otherwise couldn't have afforded.  Living in the Midwest, I still had reason to "go home" to Virginia, so I bought a fixed week, 3BR lockoff in Williamsburg.  The resale purchase price was reasonable and MF's dirt cheap at the time.  That ownership spoiled me with Hawaii with RCI "internal exchange preferences" for years!

I also picked up a couple of other timeshares along the way including another Wyndham fixed week . . . this one in Flagstaff . . . as well as a floating 1-52 studio/1BR in Waikiki.  In 2008 my sister gave us their 77k point contract with Wyndham in Myrtle Beach.

Today we still have the 77k points and the Waikiki unit, having sold or given away the two other fixed Wyndham weeks.

The benefit for us today is that we can go to nice vacation places and take family . . . either in our unit or via RCI exchanges . . . or I can do work travel to places like Vegas & Nashville and save my employer money vs. paying high convention rates.


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## klpca (Nov 5, 2017)

2turners said:


> TS owners for over 20 years with 7 TS in St Maarten. When we lived in Long Island could not wait for our 3 to 5 weeks in St. Maarten with family and friends. Retired and moved to Florida. Everything changed, children grew up, etc. RCI trades we have tried all over the USA but in our case we always got what I considered the bottom quality of the units. The older ones with less than desirable views. For what we pay in MF we can have a prime unit with a prime view anywhere we want to go. Trades for Disney with RCI have worked a little better but cost of TS is still higher than rentals. Bottom line for us TS are an expensive way to vacation. The MF have increase to the point the TS have no value. All our TS are for sale with no hope of ever recouping initial cost of TS. Looking back TS are not the way to go. Initial costs are just to high. Comparing yearly MF for what you can rent for is unrealistic. You must factor in your intial costs, RCI fees, cleaning fees and some just plain gotcha fees in comparison to what you can rent for.


One thing to keep in mind is that nearly every vrbo rental I have ever used (including our upcoming stay in Yosemite West) has a non-refundable cleaning fee. On the Yosemite house, we are paying a $200 cleaning fee for a 4 night stay. There's a refundable $500 deposit as well, but I expect to get that refunded. So there are gotcha fees everywhere.


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## CalGalTraveler (Nov 5, 2017)

+1 Not to mention VRBO, AirBnB fees and those garbage "resort fees" at hotels.


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## breezez (Nov 5, 2017)

klpca said:


> One thing to keep in mind is that nearly every vrbo rental I have ever used (including our upcoming stay in Yosemite West) has a non-refundable cleaning fee. On the Yosemite West house, we are paying a $200 cleaning fee for a 4 night stay. There's a refundable $500 deposit as well, but I expect to get that refunded. So there are gotcha fees everywhere.



Next time you go to Yosemite try WorldMark Bass Lake Resort.  About 15 miles from entrance all units are 2Bdr 2 story townhouses.   We were just there last month and enjoyed it a lot.


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## Frasier (Nov 5, 2017)

I have bought several timeshares over the past number of years (most resale). I bought them for most of the same reasons as everyone else, forced vacations, better accommodations and larger and better units, etc. I happened to be an accountant but I don’t think that really matters (someone brought that up earlier in the thread). Are timeshares an investment? Certainly not! Again I purchased them for me and my family’s use and enjoyment for how we like to vacation.

I have family and friends that will tell you they are bad investments and I don’t disagree from financial perspective. But I asked these same people who usually vacation a fair amount and how much they spend on vacations and their costs aren’t much different than my vacation costs including timeshare maintenance fees. But I feel timesharing is more suited to me and my family because we don't have to be in cramped hotel rooms eating out all of the time.

An important benefit of timeshares for me is traveling with my kids or them being able to take advantage of using on their own now they are young adults. Young kids now days want to travel like they were use to with their parents but at least for my adult kids that is not financially feasible. Since we usually have excess points I enjoy sending them on vacations to places they wouldn’t normally be able to afford.


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## WinniWoman (Nov 5, 2017)

We barely spend over a few hundred dollars over our maintenance fees when we use our home resorts.


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## dagger1 (Nov 5, 2017)

Frasier said:


> I have bought several timeshares over the past number of years (most resale). I bought them for most of the same reasons as everyone else, forced vacations, better accommodations and larger and better units, etc. I happened to be an accountant but I don’t think that really matters (someone brought that up earlier in the thread). Are timeshares an investment? Certainly not! Again I purchased them for me and my family’s use and enjoyment for how we like to vacation.
> 
> I have family and friends that will tell you they are bad investments and I don’t disagree from financial perspective. But I asked these same people who usually vacation a fair amount and how much they spend on vacations and their costs aren’t much different than my vacation costs including timeshare maintenance fees. But I feel timesharing is more suited to me and my family because we don't have to be in cramped hotel rooms eating out all of the time.
> 
> An important benefit of timeshares for me is traveling with my kids or them being able to take advantage of using on their own now they are young adults. Young kids now days want to travel like they were use to with their parents but at least for my adult kids that is not financially feasible. Since we usually have excess points I enjoy sending them on vacations to places they wouldn’t normally be able to afford.


EXACTLY!


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## sue1947 (Nov 5, 2017)

CalGalTraveler said:


> +1 Not to mention VRBO, AirBnB fees and those garbage "resort fees" at hotels.



I've been researching vacation rentals for a trip next fall and the added fees have really gotten out of hand.  It's typical for the cost of the rental to be double or more the actual per night rental cost.  There is a booking fee AND a 'service' fee plus housecleaning.  Now I understand housecleaning, but the rental that also includes a $250 per stay carpet cleaning fee in addition to the HK fee is really over the top.  

Sue


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## klpca (Nov 5, 2017)

breezez said:


> Next time you go to Yosemite try WorldMark Bass Lake Resort.  About 15 miles from entrance all units are 2Bdr 2 story townhouses.   We were just there last month and enjoyed it a lot.


 Thanks for the suggestion. I didn't even try this time because we are going over New Years and aren't WM owners. But we are staying at a place that sleeps 12, has level parking, and is almost new. It looks amazing. Fingers crossed that the photos are accurate!


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## turkel (Nov 6, 2017)

My beloved sister is a CPA and bought her first timeshare from the developer, her second was a resale I found her at the exact resort. She considers both purchases warmly and as money well spent!!!


Phydeaux said:


> Would love to hear from just a few CPA's on their opinion of their TS's.


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## breezez (Nov 6, 2017)

Phydeaux said:


> Would love to hear from just a few CPA's on their opinion of their TS's.



My wife is a CPA, with CGMA certification and an MBA.

We have 7 TS.    Now we need some more vacation time from our jobs.  Wish I could buy that for $1


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## JohnPaul (Nov 6, 2017)

I'm a CPA (retired) and love our MANY timeshares.


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## winger (Nov 7, 2017)

JohnPaul said:


> I'm a CPA (retired) and love our MANY timeshares.


From your perspective as a CPA, would you care to shed some light as what's to like?


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## WinniWoman (Nov 7, 2017)

breezez said:


> My wife is a CPA, with CGMA certification and an MBA.
> 
> We have 7 TS.    Now we need some more vacation time from our jobs.  Wish I could buy that for $1




The company my husband works for actually allows employees to buy more PTO time during open enrollment. Unfortunately, they charge like twice what your daily pay would be for each day you buy!


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## PigsDad (Nov 7, 2017)

mpumilia said:


> The company my husband works for actually allows employees to buy more PTO time during open enrollment. Unfortunately, they charge like twice what your daily pay would be for each day you buy!


That's crazy!  My company allows us to buy up to an extra week at open enrollment (at our normal salary rate), and then at the end of the year if you don't use any or part of it, we get the cost paid back to us in our last paycheck of the year (so no penalty if you don't use it).

I always buy an extra week. 

Kurt


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## WalnutBaron (Nov 7, 2017)

As the large majority of TUGgers will attest, if a newbie to the Timeshare World considers a timeshare purchase (even on the resale market) as a financial investment, he/she is likely to be sorely disappointed. If, however, that person looks at a new purchase as an investment in their relationships, their families, and building great memories, they are likely to be richly rewarded.

Vacations cost money, but a vacation in a beautiful locale with a spacious and well-maintained space to enjoy it in is a genuine pleasure.


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## Phydeaux (Nov 7, 2017)

breezez said:


> My wife is a CPA, with CGMA certification and an MBA.
> 
> We have 7 TS.    Now we need some more vacation time from our jobs.  Wish I could buy that for $1



I think it’s great you’re happy. I’m curious though what the total of your annual maintenance fees are. Do you mind sharing? Also, did you pay $1 for each of them!


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## dominidude (Nov 7, 2017)

tturla said:


> I’m a TS owner but new at reading all the forums advice blogs regarding buying selling and trading TS’s. With all the opportunities to rent via TUG VRBO AirBnb Craigslist Redweek etc., with the cost close to MF’s, what do you all think is the main driving force behind ownership? Just curious about everyone’s thoughts.
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Try renting from TUG VRBO AirBnb Craigslist or Redweek a 4th of July Week in Virginia or Myrtle Beach for $800 in a luxury two bedroom apt Ocean Front 
Only with RESALE timeshares is that even remotely possible.


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## CalGalTraveler (Nov 7, 2017)

Phydeaux said:


> I think it’s great you’re happy. I’m curious though what the total of your annual maintenance fees are. Do you mind sharing? Also, did you pay $1 for each of them!



@Phydeaux It would be most helpful to understand your situation e.g. 

1) where and what season did you buy? 
2) How much did you pay and what are your maintenance fees?
3) Did you buy from the developer? 
4) What company manages your property?

This could provide clues as to the source of your unhappiness.


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## JohnPaul (Nov 7, 2017)

winger said:


> From your perspective as a CPA, would you care to shed some light as what's to like?



Is a timeshare a financial investment?  Clearly not.  However, if you buy on the secondary market the investment is minimal.

What about all those pesky maintenance fees?  I guess it depends on what the alternate uses of your money would be, and frankly that is an issue for each person to decide based on their goals.  

Some people want a fancy car.
Some people want to build a huge inheritance for their kids.
Some people want to put every penny into their business.
Some people want a fancy house in an exclusive neighborhood.
Some people want to collect antique cars.

Nothing wrong with any of those goals.  However, I want to travel.  Of course, travel comes in a zillion forms but we are talking lodging here.

So, as a practical matter we are talking renting or having a second home as the alternatives to timeshare.  I'm going to list some pros and cons but again it will vary for every individual how big the pro or con is depending on their likes/dislikes and goals.  But....you asked for MY opinion.

Renting:

Pros:  

Sometimes you can get a real deal.
No restrictions on where you are able to go.
No ongoing commitments. 
Sometimes you are going to stumble on something that is amazing.  (Ask me about Queenstown, NZ sometime.)

Cons:

I find with my planning that what I get for my related cost is typically a much better deal with timeshares.
Unless you are returning to somewhere you never know for sure what you are getting.
Less recourse (in many cases) if there are problems.

Second home:

Pros:

Hopefully it will go up in value.
It's yours and you can make it whatever you want.
You can "book it" whenever you want, even at the last minute (but not if you rent it out).
You may be able to rent it out to offset costs.

Cons:

Large initial investment either in cash or a mortgage.  If cash, you've tied it up.  If a mortgage it's cash flow.
If you rent it out you will need to spend time managing it or money hiring a manager.
If you rent it out you run the risk of people not treating your home the way you would want.
There are lots of costs of owning a home besides the purchase - taxes, insurance, maintenance, utilities, furnishings, etc
You either have to clean up after yourself or pay someone to do it.  No housekeeping staff already included.

Timeshare (based on my ownership of lots of points systems) YMMV:

Pros:

Nominal initial investment if purchased on secondary market.
Few inaccurate expectations as I know what I'm getting.
Fully supplied, decorated and cleaned lodging when I arrive.
When I leave, I run the dishwasher and someone comes and cleans up.
"Second homes" in Tahoe, Napa, San Francisco, San Diego, Colorado, Park City, New York City, Sun River, Seattle and so on.
Someone else shovels the snow and fixes anything that doesn't work.
My ongoing costs (MF) are much less than I would pay on a second home.
I spend very little money on restaurants as we cook in the TS kitchen.

Cons:

MF (like ownership costs and rentals) will continue to go up.
MF obligations are on going (but...give it away to end them since you didn't pay much up front).
Pressure for sales presentations  (I find it is easy money or else I just say no).
If you want to exchange (I don't much because I have hundreds of options in my systems) there are extra costs.

So.   I expect you were looking for all dollars and cents since you asked for my opinion as a CPA.  But as I said at the beginning it's all about your goals for your dollars and cents and within those goals how best to use your money.


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## Phydeaux (Nov 7, 2017)

My experience is from both sides. I'm a TS member and had used the TS with my family for quite a few years, and we were happy. That was until the year that we rented a beach-side condo in the Caribbean. Since that time, we've been renting out our TS every year, taking those monies and renting beach-side condos in various locations in the Caribbean. Not looking back. All it took was 1 week in this condo and our family lost any desire to return to a resort of any kind. No desire at all to return to the TS.

When we can no longer recover our MF's from renting out the TS, we'll walk away from it as so very many members at these TS's already have.

Renting has no strings attached, no annual maintenance fees, and we are happier than we ever were at the resorts. Chair hogs? Not where we stay now. Our vacation tastes changed dramatically after just one experience different from what we were accustomed to.

I know I'm outnumbered here, and couldn't care less. I also know I'm not outnumbered in the general population. I'm glad to see most all of you so very pleased with your TS; I also see a level of rationalizing though, to be honest. I was simply responding honestly to the OP's original question. It was different than most people here. That's OK, it really is. This is a TS website, I rent out my TS here quite well.


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## CalGalTraveler (Nov 7, 2017)

@Phydeaux Thanks for sharing your perspective. It may very well be true that these Caribbean condos are better suited for your situation and you don't like resorts.  It sounds like your timeshare is not suiting you anymore. Perhaps you should sell it?

In our case, we trade into Oahu oceanfront during peak summer. Those units rent for $5000 a week.  We pay about $980 in maintenance fees to get it. We don't need a CPA to tell which is the better deal.

I have experienced some very poor VRBO/AirBnB condo rentals that were not what they were pictured. I like to know what I am going to get as my vacation time is limited and precious. I have a sister-in-law who is perfectly fine with imperfect VRBO/AirBnB rentals. She is delighted to stay at 3 star accommodations - I am not.

Congratulations on finding some treasures in the Caribbean - too far away to visit regularly - to each his own.


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## PigsDad (Nov 7, 2017)

Phydeaux said:


> Renting has no strings attached, *no annual maintenance fees*, and we are happier than we ever were at the resorts.


I'm always curious why maintenance fees are often brought up by some people as a negative when discussing timeshares.  How do maintenance fees differ from the rent one pays, when comparing timeshares to renting?

Both are paid in order to use the property for a period of time.  MFs are likely lower than the rent one would pay for the same week, especially when vacationing during any popular times.  I get the "no strings attached" part, but in my case, since my weeks are all part of HGVC, if I don't want to use one of my weeks it converts into points I can use anywhere in the HGVC system -- and I have never had an issue finding a good use for those points.  Others find alternative use in trading, or other uses.  Having "strings attached" is not a big deal to many of us, as those strings aren't necessarily limiting.

I'm glad you have found a place where your family is happy to vacations -- I think that is a goal for all of us here.  But making a blanket statement of "Timeshares are dead" as you did early in this thread is absolutely ridiculous.  Perhaps you were just talking about the poor choices of timeshares you made for your family?  If so then yes, they are dead -- to you.  But certainly not to everyone.

Kurt


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## DavidnRobin (Nov 7, 2017)

PigsDad said:


> I'm always curious why maintenance fees are often brought up by some people as a negative when discussing timeshares.  How do maintenance fees differ from the rent one pays, when comparing timeshares to renting?
> 
> Both are paid in order to use the property for a period of time.  MFs are likely lower than the rent one would pay for the same week, especially when vacationing during any popular times.  I get the "no strings attached" part, but in my case, since my weeks are all part of HGVC, if I don't want to use one of my weeks it converts into points I can use anywhere in the HGVC system -- and I have never had an issue finding a good use for those points.  Others find alternative use in trading, or other uses.  Having "strings attached" is not a big deal to many of us, as those strings aren't necessarily limiting.
> 
> ...



Perhaps it is because  TSs are a Luxury item and have a yearly commitment, and in many cases MFs (and other related TS costs) go up faster than the inflation rate and/or Cost-of-Living


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Phydeaux (Nov 7, 2017)

Don’t take my word for it that ts’s are dead, just turn on your radio, watch a few commercials, or take a random pole. Again, I’m glad they work for folks here. No need to defend them. At least I see no need


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## PigsDad (Nov 7, 2017)

DavidnRobin said:


> Perhaps it is because  TSs are a Luxury item and have a yearly commitment, and in many cases MFs (and other related TS costs) go up faster than the inflation rate and/or Cost-of-Living


But how is that different than the rent one would pay for an equivalent vacation? We are comparing timeshares to renting here, not timeshares to not vacationing.

BTW, the MF increases I have owned have not been out of line at all.  I think they should be compared to the cost of lodging, not the cost of living.  For example, my first TS bought in 2005 had a MF of about $900.  This year it was $1300.  Ask yourself this: do you think a hotel room that went for $90 in 2005 would fetch $130 today?  My answer would definitely be "yes, and then some".

Kurt


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## PigsDad (Nov 7, 2017)

Phydeaux said:


> Don’t take my word for it that ts’s are dead, just turn on your radio, watch a few commercials, or take a random pole. Again, I’m glad they work for folks here. No need to defend them. At least I see no need


You must have a strange definition of "dead" then.  Just took a look at HGVC's investor's report (the system I am most familiar with), and their TS sales are continuing to increase.  They are building new resorts.  Is that what you call dead? LOL!

TS as a whole may be past their heyday, but certainly still alive and kicking. 

Kurt


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## CalGalTraveler (Nov 7, 2017)

Phydeaux said:


> Don’t take my word for it that ts’s are dead, just turn on your radio, watch a few commercials, or take a random pole.



Didn't you say you were renting your timeshare out at a profit?  IMHO...That doesn't sound dead.

Herd mentality works for me. Dirt cheap resales. I'll simply rent out my "dead" timeshares to the "enlightened" on AirBnB for a profit...


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## puppymommo (Nov 7, 2017)

I think if owning timeshare(s) is working out for you, it is a good investment for you. If it is not working, it is a bad investment for you. Not an investment in terms of investing to earn money, of course. Over the past 20 years, I have spent less than $2500 total obtaining resale Wyndham points. My current MFs are about $2000/year. For that I get 2-4 weeks of vacation per year, in either a 1 or 2 bedroom unit. For me, the numbers crunch in a positive direction. I like the variety in the Wyndham system. I could go to a different place every year. This year I had an oceanfront 2 bedroom condo on Kauai. In 2018 I am going to NYC. Other people like going to the same place every year. If I wanted to go places where my timeshare could not take me, I would be unhappy with timeshare ownership. If I had bought retail, I  would be unhappy with timeshare ownership. This is just sharing my own experience, not "defending timeshare".


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## VegasBella (Nov 7, 2017)

TUGgers in general do not encourage others to buy timeshares. In fact we’re always shouting RESCIND! And we often/usually suggest renting before buying. So none of us will say “everyone should own a timeshare.”

We know plenty of other timeshare owners are unhappy with their ownership(s). This thread is about what we value from our ownerships.


edit to clarify: 
not encouraging others to buy timeshares =/= a general sentiment that people 'shouldn't' buy timeshares

Offering a timeshare for free or sale, answering questions about 'what timeshare should I buy', discussing one's own purchases of timeshares and similar are not IMO 'encouraging others to buy timeshares'.


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## davidvel (Nov 7, 2017)

VegasBella said:


> *TUGgers in general do not encourage others to buy timeshares.* In fact we’re always shouting RESCIND! And we often/usually suggest renting before buying. So none of us will say “everyone should own a timeshare.”
> 
> We know plenty of other timeshare owners are unhappy with their ownership(s). This thread is about what we value from our ownerships.
> 
> ...


Not true at all. TUGGERs in general encourage people not to buy timeshares direct from developers. I don't know of any sentiment overall on TUG that people shouldn't buy timeshares.


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## breezez (Nov 7, 2017)

Phydeaux said:


> I think it’s great you’re happy. I’m curious though what the total of your annual maintenance fees are. Do you mind sharing? Also, did you pay $1 for each of them!



I pay about $535 per month.   This may seem like a lot it is.  This covers about 13 weeks of prime time vacation.....   If used in shoulder seasons you would get 20-26 weeks.  Currently I hook up family, I try to take 3 full week each year then several small 3-5 day trips during the year around holidays during the year.    What I don’t use I now rent.

I don’t pay for any vehicles and I guess you could say I pay what the average person pays for 1 car payment now days.   And when they get done I will probably be able to get more unloading my TS than they will get for their car.

I did not pay $1 for any of them.   The lowest I paid $50 - highest $7000


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## VacationForever (Nov 7, 2017)

breezez said:


> I pay about $535 per month.   This may seem like a lot it is.  This covers about 13 weeks of prime time vacation.....   If used in shoulder seasons you would get 20-26 weeks.  Currently I hook up family, I try to take 3 full week each year then several small 3-5 day trips during the year around holidays during the year.    What I don’t use I now rent.
> 
> I don’t pay for any vehicles and I guess you could say I pay what the average person pays for 1 car payment now days.   And when they get done I will probably be able to get more unloading my TS than they will get for their car.
> 
> I did not pay $1 for any of them.   The lowest I paid $50 - highest $7000


It is interesting in your statement about not paying for any vehicles.  We are down to 1 car after we are retired.  Every once in a while we are tempted to buy another car - for years we owned 3 between the 2 of us.  When we plonked down 40K+ on additional Marriott timeshare a month or so ago, I wrote it off as the equivalence of the cost of a 2nd car that we are not buying.  Our MF for the Marriott timeshare is about 6.5K per year, which is also about what it costs us in depreciation and cost of maintenance of the 2nd car each year.  This would be double counting...   So just ignore that...

In reality, the MF that we are paying for our timeshares (Vistana + Marriott) + credit card points are getting us at least 2 round trip business class tickets a year, plus hotel accommodation and timeshare resort accommodation.  The business class tickets are worth about 8K to 10K for 2, not counting the cost of accommodation which is another 2K or so.  In 2018, we are booking 2 sets of 2 round trip business class tickets with mileage - 2 round trip tickets to Europe and 2 round trip tickets to Asia.  If we pay out of our pocket, we are looking at about $16K to $20K in air fare.  We do this by converting timeshare to Marriott hotel points and booking travel packages.  We have almost turned ourselves into Jarta (good old Jim for those of us who remember him).  We have cruises in both continents and our timeshare is helping us fly there with less cost.


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## winger (Nov 8, 2017)

JohnPaul said:


> ...
> 
> So.   I expect you were looking for all dollars and cents since you asked for my opinion as a CPA.  But as I said at the beginning it's all about your goals for your dollars and cents and within those goals how best to use your money.


 No, on the contrary, that part of asking "your opinion as a CPA" was simply to get the conversation started.  I was really interested in what specific consideration(s) a professional numbers person such as yourself had in purchasing multiple TS's.  TS ownership is such a multi-faceted animal, I just love hearing/learning about the different viewpoints. Life is about learning.  Maybe I can put the information to good use one day??? Or not.

Thank you for taking time for composing such a detailed response and for sharing.  It was nice reading.


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## jehb2 (Nov 8, 2017)

I feel no need what so ever to defend my timeshare lifestyle.  We were fortunate to buy our timeshares when we were young. We're still a long way from retirement and our kids are not yet teenagers.  We have the most awesome vacations.  We absolutely would not pay the money it takes to have these "grand" vacations if we had to do it without timeshares.  Plus we always take family and friends. That just wouldn't happen without timeshares.  Lately we've rented out our timeshares for more money than I would be willing to pay and used it to travel to Europe & Japan.

I have had very good experiences with Homeaway & Airbnb.  However, it's just very stressful sending full payment and not knowing til you turn the key and step inside if everything is legit.  Of course the very last Airbnb apartment we stayed in was very modern and beautiful.  However the beds were made up with sheets that were still very damp.  We had to take them to a laundry mat at 9pm at night.  If it had been a hotel I certainly would have been comped something.

Airbnb has worked for me but it simply is not comparable to my Hilton Hawaiian ocean view timeshares.


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## marinskas (Nov 10, 2017)

jehb2 said:


> Lately we've rented out our timeshares for more money than I would be willing to pay



There were several folks in this thread alone that mentioned about successfully renting out their unused timeshares and in most cases covering MFs and then some. I have also read the renting threads to learn more about it. But something does not add up to me. When I browse Redweek I see a lot of supply in the best destinations during the best peak times (ski destinations in height of ski season, Hawaii during Holidays, etc.) priced at what seems to be at or below MFs (most likely at a loss when considering other costs - reservation fee, guest certificate fee, cancelation insurance fee, paypal/CC fee for receiving rent money, advertisement fees, etc.). And there is a lot of supply. So how/where folks are able to rent their TS for a break-even/or better price among all the supply?


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## LannyPC (Nov 10, 2017)

PigsDad said:


> But how is that different than the rent one would pay for an equivalent vacation? We are comparing timeshares to renting here, not timeshares to not vacationing.
> 
> BTW, the MF increases I have owned have not been out of line at all.  I think they should be compared to the cost of lodging, not the cost of living.  For example, my first TS bought in 2005 had a MF of about $900.  This year it was $1300.  Ask yourself this: do you think a hotel room that went for $90 in 2005 would fetch $130 today?  My answer would definitely be "yes, and then some".



Yes, I get what you're saying and you make a good comparison.  But the point still remains that bothers a number of TS owners (or former owners)...MFs seem to increase faster than the regular cost of living and wages.  So for example and numbers' sake, if an owner shelled out 50 hours' wages last year for MFs on his TS and this year he is paying 52 hours' wages, then he has a valid complaint.

Yes, it might be the same in the hotel/motel industry but the complaint is still there.


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## dominidude (Nov 10, 2017)

LannyPC said:


> But the point still remains that bothers a number of TS owners (or former owners)...MFs seem to increase faster than the regular cost of living and wages.  So for example and numbers' sake, if an owner shelled out 50 hours' wages last year for MFs on his TS and this year he is paying 52 hours' wages, then he has a valid complaint.
> 
> Yes, it might be the same in the hotel/motel industry but the complaint is still there.



I check every vacation I schedule, and if I can rent a vacation condo cheaper, I do that. If I can get get it cheaper through my timeshare network, I do that. So far, the timeshares save me anywhere from 30% to as much as 80% when you compare the same accommodations and rent from the cheapest source possible.

My experience is that every year I SAVE more and more money with timeshares.
Yes, I may have to spend more money every year, BUT, at least in my situation, the money I would have to spend to get the same number of vacations every year without timeshares increases faster than the money I spend with timeshares.

But of course, that is my personal situation. I have kids in school, so I'm tied to the school schedule and do the lion's share of my travels when school is off. Others who can travel throughout the year might feel different.

But honestly, so far, *I don't see how someone who has researched RESALE timeshares well enough can say that timeshares cannot save you money, hassle, time, or any combination of those three.*

The only exception I see, perhaps, is that some people do not like the financial commitment that comes with timeshares, having to EVERY YEAR pay maintenance dues. In my experience that is the biggest hurdle, complaint, negative, etc, the people I talk to see in timeshares.  Never mind they might spend way more money than our family in fewer vacations! The idea of being indebted, possibly for ever, to a timeshare resort is very unappealing to some folks.

To each its own.


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## CalGalTraveler (Nov 10, 2017)

marinskas said:


> There were several folks in this thread alone that mentioned about successfully renting out their unused timeshares and in most cases covering MFs and then some. I have also read the renting threads to learn more about it. But something does not add up to me. When I browse Redweek I see a lot of supply in the best destinations during the best peak times (ski destinations in height of ski season, Hawaii during Holidays, etc.) priced at what seems to be at or below MFs (most likely at a loss when considering other costs - reservation fee, guest certificate fee, cancelation insurance fee, paypal/CC fee for receiving rent money, advertisement fees, etc.). And there is a lot of supply. So how/where folks are able to rent their TS for a break-even/or better price among all the supply?



Good point. In general I don't view timeshares as a good rental income investment - especially with maintenance fees outstripping COLA.  However, renting enables owners a way to offset fees and possibly make a little money in years you want to go elsewhere or if you cannot sell or give it away.

The bromide "Location, Location, Location," plus unit type, and season play a big role as to whether it's profitable or not.

On Redweek, it initially appears that there are many units, but when you look closer by week or month there are not as many available.  As a renter this can be like looking for a needle in a haystack when you need to search multiple sites, assessing whether the unit is legit etc.  This hassle and risk is why I dislike renting.

Here are a few back of the envelope examples based on where I travel - all appear profitable:

*July 2018 Maui:*

Marriott Napili - 12 units available (BTW that's only 3 per week avail) - 2 bdrm $3500 Island View - $5500 Oceanfront (maint approx $2400)
Westin Kaanapali - only one 1 bedroom fixed week available - hard to find - 1 studio - hard to find
                            27 -  2 BDRMS - $3595 - $4600  (Maint approx $2700)


*Jan 2018 Ski week Park City:*

Hilton Sunrise - only 3 one bdrm available - fixed weeks - $2993 - $4000/week (maint approx $1199)
Marriott Mountain Watch - 3 1 bdrm avail - $2373 - $2600 / week (2bdm maint approx $1530)

YMMV


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## CalGalTraveler (Nov 10, 2017)

FWIW...AirBnB and VRBO open up new opportunities for timeshare owners, since these appear to be very popular channels and in vogue. (IMHO...Tug or Redweek could have an opportunity to partner and create an "Interval Channel" within these portals to promote the unique benefits of renting timeshares (e.g. branded resorts, on-property mgt, resort amenities) and make the process seamless for owners to list.)


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## heathpack (Nov 10, 2017)

marinskas said:


> There were several folks in this thread alone that mentioned about successfully renting out their unused timeshares and in most cases covering MFs and then some. I have also read the renting threads to learn more about it. But something does not add up to me. When I browse Redweek I see a lot of supply in the best destinations during the best peak times (ski destinations in height of ski season, Hawaii during Holidays, etc.) priced at what seems to be at or below MFs (most likely at a loss when considering other costs - reservation fee, guest certificate fee, cancelation insurance fee, paypal/CC fee for receiving rent money, advertisement fees, etc.). And there is a lot of supply. So how/where folks are able to rent their TS for a break-even/or better price among all the supply?



You're assuming fees that don't always exist.

If I want to rent out my DVC, for example:
1.  Reservation fee- none
2.  Guest certificate fee- none
3.  Cancellation insurance fee- none, nor would this be a fee I would pay as the owner of the unit
4.  Paypal fee- none, I'm paid via direct deposit when I use a broker
5.  Advertisement fee- none, if I use a broker or advertise myself on Craigslist (which works really well for Disneyland)

Obviously I am "paying" the broker to rent my points, in that he takes a cut of the proceeds and if I weren't using his services, I'd get more of the rental fee.  But either way, I can rent my points for significantly more than my annual costs with minimal investment of my time.

I could go through the same math with my other ownerships but I haven't rented any of them. They wouldn't be as easy to rent or as profitable.


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## LannyPC (Nov 11, 2017)

winger said:


> Just came across this today (ex-coworker sent to me). Interesting reading.
> 
> https://www.reddit.com/r/personalfi...are_ownership_is_never_a_good_financial_idea/



I just read this.  It's quite a shame that people, whose only experience with TSs is buying a developer purchase, go writing all these scathing blogs about TSs, how TSs are the root of all evil and totally incorrigible.

It would be nice if they came on to TUG and read some of the stories of the many contented owners.


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## VegasBella (Nov 12, 2017)

LannyPC said:


> I just read this.  It's quite a shame that people, whose only experience with TSs is buying a developer purchase, go writing all these scathing blogs about TSs, how TSs are the root of all evil and totally incorrigible.
> 
> It would be nice if they came on to TUG and read some of the stories of the many contented owners.



Yes, but the negative stigma of timeshares probably helps to keep resale prices low.


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## Marathoner (Nov 12, 2017)

Phydeaux said:


> My experience is from both sides. I'm a TS member and had used the TS with my family for quite a few years, and we were happy. That was until the year that we rented a beach-side condo in the Caribbean. Since that time, we've been renting out our TS every year, taking those monies and renting beach-side condos in various locations in the Caribbean. Not looking back. All it took was 1 week in this condo and our family lost any desire to return to a resort of any kind. No desire at all to return to the TS.



This is great that you've identified a condo that your family really enjoys.  I've also gone on non-timeshare vacations that we've thought were excellent but the ones we've chosen were high-end which rented more than 5K a week and I don't want to pay that sum to vacation too often.

Can you share with us which condo your family loved that has made timeshares a thing of the past for your family?  Any photos of the location and condo?


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## CalGalTraveler (Nov 12, 2017)

Just read an article today in our local paper in which a renter had sent a $4000 deposit to rent a VRBO but as the arrival date approached the provider was non-responsive. VRBO was not helpful when contacted by the renter (despite their "rent with confidence" policy which contains a lot of "ifs").

Bottom Line:  VRBO reportedly told the renter that he would need to show up at the rental home and get actually denied access before he could make a claim.  Not a practical situation after traveling thousands of miles on an airplane with a large extended family that includes tired grandchildren. VRBO was un-willing to assist with this situation and it took the pressure of a media consumer help line to intervene to get his money back.

This is why I will always opt to be an owner and not a renter - I don't need additional stress like this added to my vacations.


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## VacationForever (Nov 12, 2017)

CalGalTraveler said:


> Just read an article today in our local paper in which a renter had sent a $4000 deposit to rent a VRBO but as the arrival date approached the provider was non-responsive. VRBO was not helpful when contacted by the renter (despite their "rent with confidence" policy which contains a lot of "ifs").
> 
> Bottom Line:  VRBO reportedly told the renter that he would need to show up at the rental home and get actually denied access before he could make a claim.  Not a practical situation after traveling thousands of miles on an airplane with a large extended family that includes tired grandchildren. VRBO was un-willing to assist with this situation and it took the pressure of a media consumer help line to intervene to get his money back.
> 
> This is why I will always opt to be an owner and not a renter - I don't need additional stress like this added to my vacations.


Same here, I have not done a private rental at all for the same reason.


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