# Manhattan Club



## ira g (Dec 8, 2009)

We are seeing many Manhattan Club units being sold on e-bay for prices that range from $15 to a few hundred dollars. We were told by a timeshare salesman at the MC that they exercise right of first refusal for these units. I saw his lips moving so I am questioning whether he was not exactly telling the truth. My question is does MC have a right of first refusal in their documents and are they exercising it if they do?


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## timeos2 (Dec 8, 2009)

*Find out if they have it in the docs. In any case they aren't using it*



ira g said:


> We are seeing many Manhattan Club units being sold on e-bay for prices that range from $15 to a few hundred dollars. We were told by a timeshare salesman at the MC that they exercise right of first refusal for these units. I saw his lips moving so I am questioning whether he was not exactly telling the truth. My question is does MC have a right of first refusal in their documents and are they exercising it if they do?



They may have it - I'm not sure - but they aren't exercising it. If they do they have to pay the fees until it is sold and with the market as depressed as it is they aren't willing to do that.  There are very few companies exercising ROFR now as they don't want more inventory no matter how cheap as sales are below the drain. Most are making their money on upgrades or management fees rather than original sales now.


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## pjrose (Dec 8, 2009)

How much is the MF?  I've tried to get a trade into there, but no luck.


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## timeos2 (Dec 8, 2009)

*Too high for certain*



pjrose said:


> How much is the MF?  I've tried to get a trade into there, but no luck.



Last I heard it was at about $2000/year. Hopefully it is going to renovate the units.  In 2002 it was $499 and the units where in great shape. But it must not have been enough as when we last stayed 3 years ago they needed serious work. Plus they have added all types of nuisance fees making what had been a great resort almost like a DVC experience.  Too bad. Today only renting makes sense unless you somehow manage to get a trade with a very low cost trader and then don't mind being hit with the extra fees.


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## ira g (Dec 8, 2009)

We are here at the Manhattan Club for 2 back to back weeks. We traded in using some low cost/ low MF timeshares. I checked Redweek and John is correct that you can rent for less than or equal to the MF with no escalating fees. We are subject to a $15 per day extra charge but since the trader we used to trade in was so low cost and we are given daily cleaning I am not to upset. The units are in pretty good shape and we were pleasantly surprised at their size even for a large L shaped studio.


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## ira g (Dec 8, 2009)

The MF at the MC run from about $1700 for a studio to about $2100 for a one bedroom. Seems very high but when you consider the prices in NYC, for restaurants, parking , etc. it doesn't seem completely out of line. If you are coming to NYC and specifically Manhattan bring plenty of money or plenty of plastic.


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## jjlovecub (Dec 11, 2009)

They aren't exercising ROFR at this time


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## DonM (Dec 12, 2009)

I just traded there via SFX- no extra fees!!


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## stevens397 (Dec 27, 2009)

Okay, here goes everyone.  I hope and pray that these comments get widespread exposure.

We purchased the one bedroom, two bathroom "Founders Package" (3 weekends) about 4 years ago with the idea that we would go to the city three times a year.  We checked it all out and found out that it should be no big deal to call a few months in advance and get what we wanted.  And for two years, it worked very well.

Our resale purchase price was $17,000 - way less than half what the Sales Office was asking for purchase thru the developer.  We figured it was a steal (and I'm not that new at this game).  Maintenance fees were about $1,200.

Since then, two things happened.  First of all, the fees have almost doubled.  Our last MF charged to our credit card was for over $2,300.  Now  happen to think that all things being equal, an argument can at least be made to support those numbers.  There is, in fact, daily service to the room and, of course, it is in NYC.

But get this - every single other timeshare we own or have ever heard of will let you make reservations into the following year as long as you are current with your fees.  So in August, 2010, you could make a reservation for August 2011 and the reservation would be honored as long as you made your MF fee payment by Jan 1, 2011.  Well not with the Manhattan Club.  This requires that you pay way, way in advance.  And they have your credit card so I can only say that in August, 2009 (my year ran from August to August), they charged me for 2010-2011.

But that is far from the biggest problem.  No one knows how this happened but almost overnight, it became impossible to get a reservation unless you called exactly 9 months out.  It truly went from calling a few months ahead to calling the full 9 months in advance - and remember, this is just for a day or two.  Now things come up in those 9 months - someone invites you to a wedding, etc.  But if something does come up, you're a dead duck since there is no possibility that you will be able to rebook within your year since you will be told there is no availability.  Of course, if you look at the maintenance fee and divide by 7, you can see the number is pretty high.  But lose two nights and then divide it by 5 and you can literally get sick!

What's interesting is that studios and one bedroom suites are available all the time on sites like Expedia.  

So out of intense frustration and anger, I bit the bullet and sold it on eBay for $1,525 (+ reimbursement of two years of fees so it wasn't quite as bad).  Me made immediate reservations at a luxury, all-suite hotel a few blocks away (the LondonNYC) and just got back from four nights there.  The rate I paid was significantly less than the per diem net at the Manhattan Club and since it was booked thru AMEX, we got free expensive breakfasts each day.

I have no doubt there is fraud going on here.  Anyone even considering a purchase should go to the Yahoo group for the Manhattan Club - trust me, I'm not alone here.  The did have a $3,000 buy-back but they put it on hold and there are so many members wanting out that they are not even taking names.  Yes, they are not exercising ROFR at this time (mine sailed thru) but my sense from dealing with these thieves is that once the economy turns around, they would like nothing more than to rebuy everyone's unit and sell the project again!

I figure that anyone buying into the MC knows what the fees are but I doubt anyone realizes the difficulty in getting a reservation.  I realize that people have differing perspectives but at this point, I can't see any upside to buying into the MC.  Beware!


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## drivable (Dec 27, 2009)

stevens397 said:


> Okay, here goes everyone.  I hope and pray that these comments get widespread exposure.
> 
> We purchased the one bedroom, two bathroom "Founders Package" (3 weekends) about 4 years ago with the idea that we would go to the city three times a year.  We checked it all out and found out that it should be no big deal to call a few months in advance and get what we wanted.  And for two years, it worked very well.
> 
> ...


My godfather was a Founding Member, name on the wall and everything.  The MFs and reservation difficulties were too much for him.  He sold through Seth before the bust and got $12,000.  Glad to have washed his hands of it.


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## timeos2 (Dec 27, 2009)

*From best to last in a heartbeat*



stevens397 said:


> I figure that anyone buying into the MC knows what the fees are but I doubt anyone realizes the difficulty in getting a reservation.  I realize that people have differing perspectives but at this point, I can't see any upside to buying into the MC.  Beware!



It used to be one of the best timeshares that set standards for others. They adopted the DVC attitude of "we're the best - we don't have to try and we can charge whatever we want" but without even keeping the resort in top shape (the last few times there we felt it was seriously worn out).  Then the incredible run up of fees (I can remember the real bargain $500/week years - but that was obviously not a real bargain for owners as it was far too low to support this resort) and add the unexplainable and sudden lack of available use time - it has gone from a gem to a nightmare. A terrible example of how a poorly managed resort can go from top ranked to the sewer based on a number of factors. And this one has them all.  What a shame and now what a disaster to be an owner there today. Those who think name brands are immune to this type of value collapse had better see the lesson here. No name or resort is immune.


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## Janette (Dec 28, 2009)

We love staying at the MC and have traded in using a low maintenance timeshare. We owned at the beginning with the three weekends but sold before the real estate bust for more than we paid. It is a wonderful timeshare so I hope they will keep it in good shape.It is very hard to justify owning there now.


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