# Yahoo - Fairfield Timeshare Group moves to new home



## GlennBenscoter (Sep 6, 2007)

The Yahoo fairfield_timeshare group is moving to a new home.  It is a combined web site and Forums.  The web site can be reached by either www.FairfieldOwners.org or www.WyndhamOwners.org  There is a members only section and there are forums that link from there or go to http://forums.WyndhamOwners.org or http://forums.FairfieldOwners.org.  You will need to register to get started.

The format of the forums is very similiar to this at TUG.  We are still in the process of coping from the old home (Yahoo) to the new one.  We have over 600 member register already after anouncing it about 2 weeks ago.  We have or will have info there on all the resorts.

If you have interest in Fairfield / Wyndham, come join us.

Glenn Benscoter


----------



## timeos2 (Sep 6, 2007)

GlennBenscoter said:


> The Yahoo fairfield_timeshare group is moving to a new home.  It is a combined web site and Forums.  The web site can be reached by either www.FairfieldOwners.org or www.WyndhamOwners.org  There is a members only section and there are forums that link from there or go to http://forums.WyndhamOwners.org or http://forums.FairfieldOwners.org.  You will need to register to get started.
> 
> The format of the forums is very similiar to this at TUG.  We are still in the process of coping from the old home (Yahoo) to the new one.  We have over 600 member register already after anouncing it about 2 weeks ago.  We have or will have info there on all the resorts.
> 
> ...



Not a great start. I tried 7 times (with 2 different browsers just in case) to register & each time it says the 

The confirmation code you entered was incorrect

Once maybe I miss typed. Twice - possible 7 times? Nope. Bad code on your end.


----------



## GlennBenscoter (Sep 7, 2007)

John,
I am sorry you had a problem.  The code is case sensitive.  I can not imagine what the problem is as we are getting new members at continuously.  Overnight 10 pm to 6 am we picked up 18.  Not bad for the wee hours.


----------



## Miss Marty (Sep 7, 2007)

*Fairfield - Wyndham*

*
Thanks for the Update! *

www.FairfieldOwners.org 

www.WyndhamOwners.org


----------



## timeos2 (Sep 7, 2007)

GlennBenscoter said:


> John,
> I am sorry you had a problem.  The code is case sensitive.  I can not imagine what the problem is as we are getting new members at continuously.  Overnight 10 pm to 6 am we picked up 18.  Not bad for the wee hours.



I'll try again (I am a LONG time member of the Yahoo version).  But I did try already with case and without (by the way the message by the code says it's case insensitive).

Thanks


----------



## Timeshare Von (Sep 7, 2007)

John I had the same issues when I first signed up.  For me, I had to refresh and/or clear the cookies and start over.  I also found that my AOL browser was adding to the problem(s).

p.s.  Yes the instructions do say "case insensitive" which I pointed out during my struggles too.  So who knows if they are or aren't . . . but obviously the intructions haven't changed.


----------



## acesneights (Sep 24, 2007)

It's not entirely correct to say that the Yahoo! group is moving to a new home.

Glenn has established a new website and closed membership in the Yahoo! group that has existed for 10 years.

He is hoping to force everyone to move to the new website.

Instead TUG may become the new home for owners looking for help with their FF ownership.

The only way for new people to access the files is at the new website since they can't join the old one.

The databases of points for sale and rent are only on the old site. So new people are foreclosed from offering anything for sale to the 4100 owners of 1 billion FF or finding out what is being offered unless the 4100 cross post on the new site.

It's kind of sad, power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely.

Stan


----------



## bnoble (Sep 24, 2007)

It's a marketplace of ideas.  If TUG becomes the resource of choice, then so be it.  What's the harm?

Of course, nothing prevents any of the current Yahoo group members from creating a new group, and copying the entire documents and database archives from the old group to the new one.  People will vote with their feet.  If the Yahoo format is really preferred by so many people, the new Yahoo group will outlive the new forum.

That said, I've always suspected that the vast majority of the Yahoo group "members" were people who may have registered once upon a time, and stopped reading after a few days of the ceaseless bickering that is the hallmark of the Yahoo group.  They've certainly stopped participating.


----------



## Conan (Sep 24, 2007)

I've been a regular visitor to the Yahoo group and now to the new site.  I'm no insider, by the way - - I barely own enough points for a one-week stay.

But I don't think it's fair to accuse Glenn of a power trip.  Besides the second-rate Yahoo interface, the site has a somewhat odd history (having been abandoned by Keith which led to Glenn filling the void there), and a peculiar social chemistry that I won't try to describe here.

Also, although Glenn has ported its files to the new site, my understanding is the door is open for the Yahoo site to take on a new owner, in which case its files would co-exist there.


----------



## Timeshare Von (Sep 24, 2007)

acesneights said:


> It's not entirely correct to say that the Yahoo! group is moving to a new home.
> 
> Glenn has established a new website and closed membership in the Yahoo! group that has existed for 10 years.
> 
> ...




Sour grapes and having it spill over into another forum/bbs is not beneficial for anyone.  There are a number of reasons why the decision was made to move the group from YahooGroups . . . none of which has to do with power, ego or any other lame reason Stan would like to lead folks to believe.

The fact is, YahooGroups is generally a less than adequate BBS service and a better one has been found and tailored for our use.  Unfortunately, there are several who are slow to accept change so they are lingering behind, with a fair amount of grumbling and bitching.

It is my general observation that the majority of contributing members of the "group" have made the move to the new location, which over time, will probably have an adverse affect on the quality of information being provided at the YahooGroup.

To Glenn's credit, he is allowing that group to continue to co-exist and remain in place for those who simply refuse to make the move to the new location.  So at the end of the day, nothing has been taken away from those remaining at YahooGroups.


----------



## Timeshare Von (Sep 24, 2007)

I should have also reminded folks that had it not been for Glenn's tireless efforts a year or so ago, there would be NO YahooGroup when the former list owner Keith, chose to abandon the group leaving "us" with no way to accept and welcome new members.  It was Glenn who worked hard with the YahooGroups administrative personnel to get the group's administrative and moderator duties assigned to active members interested in Fairfield/Wyndham.

As Glenn has said numerous times to the group, if there are folks unhappy with his leadership and/or decisions, they are free to start up their own YahooGroup with their own rules, etc.  He has even offered to assist in that process if there are people interested in going that route.

He has been selfless in his efforts, and for Stan (and others remaining behind at the old YahooGroup) to take shots at him is completely uncalled for!


----------



## Bucky (Sep 25, 2007)

bnoble said:


> That said, I've always suspected that the vast majority of the Yahoo group "members" were people who may have registered once upon a time, and stopped reading after a few days of the ceaseless bickering that is the hallmark of the Yahoo group.  They've certainly stopped participating.



Well said.  There are certain individuals on the Yahoo group who basically only have negative comments to make.  FF/WYN bashers basically.  Nothing positive to contribute and people just got tired of having to read all of their negative comments.  At the new site the forum is set up in the same basic style as TUG.  Makes it easy to go directly to the sub-forum your interested in.  It will survive and thrive.  JMHO.


----------



## bigeyes1 (Sep 25, 2007)

Bucky said:


> Well said.  There are certain individuals on the Yahoo group who basically only have negative comments to make.  FF/WYN bashers basically.  Nothing positive to contribute and people just got tired of having to read all of their negative comments.  At the new site the forum is set up in the same basic style as TUG.  Makes it easy to go directly to the sub-forum your interested in.  It will survive and thrive.  JMHO.



EXACTLY!!!  I recently joined the FF/Wyn group.  After several days of reading all the negativism, I unsubscribed myself.  I love the forum much better. Kudos to all those who have put so much time and effort into it...


----------



## acesneights (Sep 25, 2007)

None of this addresses the point of trying to choke the Yahoo! group by refusing to approve new members.

If someone saved your life a year ago are they now allowed to drown you because you would have died if they didn't rescue you?

If the Yahoo! group is going to self-destruct or is composed mostly of deadwood, why not gracefully allow that to happen?

Stan


----------



## TUGBrian (Sep 26, 2007)

I dont really care to see bickering about the new forums vs yahoo groups here...if you dont mind please keep it civil =)


----------



## bnoble (Sep 26, 2007)

Stan, I'll say it again: instead of complaining about something you can't change, change somethign that you can.  Create a new Yahoo group, populate it with the old group's archives, and see if you are right.

Alternatively, you could keep trying to badger Glenn to sign the current group over to you or another current member.  Good luck with that.


----------



## Bucky (Sep 26, 2007)

The best feature of both TUG and the new FF/WYN Forum is the ability to block or ignore a particular poster.  We couldn't do this on the Yahoo site.  It will be great to just not have to watch certain individuals negativity on a daily basis.  I love TUG and I'm getting to enjoy the FF/WYN forum.


----------



## joestein (Sep 26, 2007)

I just want to add that there is nothing wrong with being negative about Fairfield or any other subject.

There is a point where it can become ridiculus, but the idea that the website should be developer neutral (which was bandied around) is even more ridiculus.

Even thought there was quite a bit of negative comments from a few individuals, I still found it was only a small percentage of the total.

My real problem with the Yahoo board was the mean spirited messages to posters who forgot to sign their name to a post or asked a question whose answer could be found in the files section.

Joe


----------



## acesneights (Sep 26, 2007)

bnoble said:


> Stan, I'll say it again: instead of complaining about something you can't change, change somethign that you can.  Create a new Yahoo group, populate it with the old group's archives, and see if you are right.
> 
> Alternatively, you could keep trying to badger Glenn to sign the current group over to you or another current member.  Good luck with that.



Hey it worked for Martin Luther King, Jr. He was told he couldn't change the way things worked in America. Mahatma Ghandi.

I feel I have just as much moral justification as he did.

Civil disobedience has a long and honorable history in America. And this isn't even civil disobedience, more like informational picketing.

Glenn has the absolute legal right to refuse to approve new members on Yahoo! and to advertise his new board as a putative replacement. I have my free speech rights and what I feel is my moral obligation to oppose that policy.

Stan


----------



## TUGBrian (Sep 26, 2007)

*taps microphone

is this thing on?

civility people...please.

As a member of the FF yahoo group for quite some time...I am disappointed to see it go.

However also going through my own form of "board offshoots"...I do not wish to repeat said bickering and arguing here when dealing with Fairfield.

Some are going to like it...some arent...same situation with every decision ever made.


----------



## acesneights (Sep 26, 2007)

The issue here is that the decision about the demise of the 4100 member Yahoo! group has been made by one individual.

There is nothing wrong with offshoots competing with the parent board, but when someone makes an offshoot board and advertises it as a replacement becuase they and they alone have the power to choke off the parent board, it strikes me as fundementally unfair.

The ad hominem attacks merely confirm that there is no logical, ethical or moral defense of that action. Just a shoot the messenger attitude.

If this forum is going to be used to advertise the offshoot board as a replacement or "new home" for the ten year old Yahoo! board, I think it is only fair to advertise the circumstances of the "new home" and the fact that it being done via a naked power grab.

The lack of civility here stems from the lack of civility shown in disregarding the wishes of 4049 people (4100 less the 51 that voted in the seven month long poll for the move)

Stan


----------



## TUGBrian (Sep 26, 2007)

I have no problem with discussing it here...feel free to post your agreement or disagreements with it.

However this has the potential to get very ugly...and already started down the political road with your last post.

Once it gets across that line...the thread is over.  It was my intention to stop it before it began.


----------



## Jya-Ning (Sep 26, 2007)

joestein said:


> I just want to add that there is nothing wrong with being negative about Fairfield or any other subject.



That I agree with



joestein said:


> There is a point where it can become ridiculus, but the idea that the website should be developer neutral (which was bandied around) is even more ridiculus.
> 
> Even thought there was quite a bit of negative comments from a few individuals, I still found it was only a small percentage of the total.



That I believe you misread.  Consider Mike the original poster has try to wrest control of trust over the developer's hand, and you probably want to re-read that thread.

I believe he tends to find a possible solution, so a handful people if they are very upset with FF will not floating all the bitterness around the whole forums.  After all, one of the suppose benefit of new format is to allow more different opions flows longer.  And can allow other people to find the stuff they really interested, and allow someone that willing to figure out what FF is to form their own subject idea, not an idea of FF paint by me or a few people.



joestein said:


> My real problem with the Yahoo board was the mean spirited messages to posters who forgot to sign their name to a post or asked a question whose answer could be found in the files section.
> 
> Joe




When I temp. fill in for Glenn, I also did the same post(s) to remind people sign and read file.

Unfortuantely, when a group that has only a single thread grow to 4,000 members that has over 100 posts every day, and people want to make sure it still is a group that matter the most, there will be a lot of displine activities, and admistration activities.

It is much easier to just post what I feel than admistration a big group.

Jya-Ning


----------



## acesneights (Sep 26, 2007)

*Rage, rage against the dying of the light.*

No one is asking for you or anyone else to help administer the Yahoo! group. The remaining 4000 just want the ability to adminisiter the group as is.

If they screw it up and everyone leaves, that's their problem.

There's no problem with you and Glenn and anyone else starting a new board and trying to make it more attractive than the old Yahoo! board.

If the new board prospers because people prefer 61 Forums to an unthreaded single listserv format and don't mind the lack of email/digest  capability and the lack of databases and the much smaller group size that's the American Way.

But if the new board has to strongarm the old board because they don't want the competition, they shouldn't expect the old board to go quietly.

Do not go gentle into that good night ...
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

Stan


----------



## Jya-Ning (Sep 26, 2007)

acesneights said:


> Stan



This has not much to do with me.  But here is what I believe I know.  Originally Glenn is not the owner also.  He has to wrest out to get the group work toward direction he thinks should go.

He has expressed his vision serval time on the Yahoo Group even before the took over, and he is now moving toward that direction

I think whoever want to do that, need to think first what is the direction (s)he visual on that group, not what you or I visual on that group.

I aleady post once on the Yahoo what I think.  I believe the really owner of that group is Yahoo.  So it is Yahoo's decision.

There are serval functions I believe any TS internet group will serve, a place to rant, a place to learn, a place to exchange with other people, a place to commicate with the TS developer, a place to sell/rent/exchange.  Except sell/rent/exchange, I never see any reason there has to be one group in internet that is the mainstream or anyone can only belong to one group or has to belong to that group.  

FF has over 800,000 owners.  If 1% interested in meeting people on the net, learning, help them makes some sort decision, and if 3,000 people is enough to support a group, we should have 2 or 3 very active groups.  And for any TS that needs to go better direction, we need to have 5% or more owner interest in what they actually owned, and at least take participant.  And as I believe, one of the thing about TS is self interest is the most important factor.  I don't believe on main stream myself and I don't know anyone in TS that willing to protect his/her interest will or shall go quitely.

As a person that is more interesting in posting, I wish you can find a solution that you like best.  

Jya-Ning


----------



## bnoble (Sep 26, 2007)

I don't think anyone is attacking you, Stan.  At least I am not.  I am merely suggesting you light a candle rather than curse the darkness.


----------



## acesneights (Sep 26, 2007)

*Light a candle*

If I had a match, I would definitely light the candle. Unfortunately, Glenn has all the matches and all the candles.

(unecessary content removed by admin)

The big unanswered question in all of these discussions is why new members were disallowed after September 15th.

If you want to use the candle analogy, why did Glenn take all the candles and matches with him when he left? What was the point of leaving everyone to curse the darkness he created?

Stan


----------



## TUGBrian (Sep 26, 2007)

seriously...final warning.

your analogies into political history have no bearing on the situation and will no longer be tolerated.

I have been courteous to you as i want to see this thread continue...I will not ask you another time to abide by my reqests of keeping this argument within the limits of the BBS rules.


----------



## acesneights (Sep 28, 2007)

*An Apology*

Glenn deserves an apology from me. We have diametrically opposed views of the "Ownership" of the Yahoo! Group.

Everyone will have to make their own decision as to which view they think is correct.

Glenn feels that he took over complete and absolute ownership of the Yahoo! Group when he petitioned Yahoo! to make him the OWNER. As owner he feels he is the final arbiter of the interpretation results of all polls and that his sense of the mission of the group is the only one that counts. His word is law and breakers of his laws will be banned.

My opinion is that the OWNERSHIP of a Yahoo! group is a technical requirement of the Yahoo! Group software. In my view, the owner is a trustee of the tradition of the group and a temporary guardian of the office. I view the owner much like the President of the United States. 

Glenn has acted in good faith according his world view and I was overly aggressive in describing the results and methods of the polling. I was overly aggressive in describing his motives.

I freely admit that Glenn's Yahoo - Fairfield Timeshare Group has moved to a new home.

In my heart, I feel that the heart and soul of the old group remains on Yahoo!, even if the name and ownership have moved on.

I apologize to everyone that was offended by the fiery rhetoric.

This will be my last post on this subject.

Stan


----------



## Tia (Oct 2, 2007)

I hope FF yahoo group members find a way to stick together where ever they chose to read and post... as the saying goes  *'there is power in numbers'*


----------

