# Help! My Sheltie is all wobbly:(



## ottawasquaw (Jul 3, 2011)

She's 14+ years old and her head today has been bobbing around like she is Katherine Hepburn. She's panting, drinking lots of water, but no food. She doesn't seem comfortable laying down, but she's not that sure on her feet. Her hind quarters have slipped out from under her and so have her front paws. All this came on suddenly a few hours ago. Clearly, she seems uncomfortable.
Last year, I switched her food to Taste of the Wild after she developed hotspots. I spent a couple hundred or more at the vet then, too. She takes the heartworm - actually I gave that to her today, same one she's been taking all year. Last month, I added a flea salve to her shoulder blades. Sorry, of course I can look up the names. It's just that she has been a wonderful, happy little doggie. She weighs 23 # and loves to run my big back yard and along the fence with the beagles on the other side.
Any thoughts?


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## MommaBear (Jul 3, 2011)

It sounds like your dog needs to go to the vets ASAP. This could be an infection, a stroke, some kind of neurological disorder- there are many possibilities and the sooner she gets care the better she can be helped. Good luck! Let us know how this turns out.


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## Steve (Jul 3, 2011)

I agree with the previous post.  I suggest you get your dog to the vet without delay.  If it were me, I'd take her to a 24 hour vet that is open on weekends and holidays.  I would not wait until normal business hours on Tuesday.  With your dog's age and the symptoms you describe, it could be something serious.  If it is life threatening, then getting fast treatment is critical.  

All the best for a happy outcome.

Steve


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## DebBrown (Jul 3, 2011)

Another vote for getting to the vet ASAP.  It may be bloat and that can kill a dog in hours.  It also sounds a bit like a stroke but so hard to tell from just reading the symptoms.

I hope everything is OK!

Deb


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## heathpack (Jul 3, 2011)

Take her in to the ER today.

It is unlikely her food or medications.  Some forms of heartworm preventative can cause similar symptoms in shelties of certain genetic make-up, but it would cause those symptoms with the first dose, not after multiple doses, so that is not the cause of her symptoms.

It is hard to know exactly what is going on from your description, but it very well may be a neurological problem.  Stroke is certainly possible, and many dogs make an excellent recovery from a stroke.  More common is a disease called "old dog vestibular" syndrome, which is a balance disorder similar to Meniere's disease in humans.  This usually improves dramatically within a week.  There are many other possibilities, you really need to get her checked out.

At the ER, they will be able to tell you if the problem is neurological and they can check out her general health with bloodwork and possibly xrays to make sure that the problem is not due to a systemic illness.  They will not be able to give you a specific diagnosis if the problem is in the brain, that would require advanced imaging that will not be possible after hours.  However, they can assess her and start symptomatic treatment.

If it is determined that you need a neurologist, there are veterinary neurologists in St. Louis, Columbus, and Chicago.  There is no neurologist at the veterinary neurologist at the veterinary school in Champaign.  But it may not come to that, start with the ER first.

H


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## tombo (Jul 3, 2011)

Check her carefully for ticks. Some ticks have an effect that will eventually paralyze your pet. Be careful removing it as squeezing it can squeeze more of the toxins into your dog. Get tweezers and pul it from the head, not the body. If it is a tick and it is removed your dog will get better quickly.

A couple of year ago one of our dogs was wobbly in the rear end and walking like it was drunk. She fell down the stairs and I was afraid she had a stroke. I called the vet and she said check her carefully for ticks. My daughter the dog saver came over and found a couple of ticks. She removed them and our pet got better quickly. Within a day she was fine. The vet said that if the ticks aren't removed they can cause irreparable damage. look for ticks and if that is the problem you won't even have to go to the vet. Keeping fingers crossed. Good luck and best wishes.


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## heathpack (Jul 3, 2011)

tombo said:


> Check her carefully for ticks. Some ticks have an effect that will eventually paralyze your pet. Be careful removing it as squeezing it can squeeze more of the toxins into your dog. Get tweezers and pul it from the head, not the body. If it is a tick and it is removed your dog will get better quickly.
> 
> A couple of year ago one of our dogs was wobbly in the rear end and walking like it was drunk. She fell down the stairs and I was afraid she had a stroke. I called the vet and she said check her carefully for ticks. My daughter the dog saver came over and found a couple of ticks. She removed them and our pet got better quickly. Within a day she was fine. The vet said tat if the ticks aren't removed tey can cause irreparable damage. look for ticks and if that is the problem you won't even have to go to the vet. Keeping fingers crossed. Good luck and best wishes.



The disease Tombo is describing is called tick paralysis.  It causes an ascending paralysis starting from the hind legs, then proceeding to the front legs.  It would not be expected to cause abnormalities of movement in the head and neck until after the dog was paralyzed in the limbs.  But Tombo is very right in saying if that's what was going on, the problem could be solved by removing the tick.  The head tremors you described would not be typical for tick paralysis.


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## ottawasquaw (Jul 4, 2011)

Thank you! You all have provided a lot of insight and I will keep you posted! She is a very sweet dog. I would say right now, she has mobility issues. It's hard for her to get up and get down. Her legs are wobbly. Of course, she needed assistance with the steps this a.m.
She's drinking some and peed. I'll check her for ticks - that's a definite possibility as I am in the country, though she is confined to her own field.
Happy 4th to all!


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## riverdees05 (Jul 4, 2011)

Sheltie's life span 12-15 years.  When we had one of our Old English Sheepdogs with the conditions you describe, it was old age.  Need to prepare yourself for what could be a hard week or so.  If it were me, I would take him to a vet and see if there is something to that can be done to help her quality of life.


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## Beaglemom3 (Jul 4, 2011)

Yes, get her to the E/R.

We are beyond blessed to have a fine Veteranarian like Heathpack here.

Thank you for what you've done for us and all the animals that you've helped.

I tried Vet school for less than one year and could not do it. 

Vets are special people.

B


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## Passepartout (Jul 4, 2011)

It's always the pits when a pet or loved one takes ill on a weekend as the OPs sheltie did. Doesn't sound like she took the advice to get the dog to the local vet right away, though.

Best wishes for a happy outcome. I Hope when our beloved Cocker Spaniel gets sick that she'll do it during business hours.

Jim Ricks


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## pkyorkbeach (Jul 4, 2011)

Good Luck with the dog!!!!  Kepp us posted


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## Pat H (Jul 4, 2011)

Sounds like what our dog had when he got older. He was about 14 yrs old the first time it was diagnosed as Lyme's Disease. He was treated and got better. The second time we were told it was some kind of inner ear of infection and he was treated for that. I'm hoping that the reason the OP hasn't posted is not because he has bad news.


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## pwrshift (Jul 4, 2011)

Good luck with your best pal, but get to the vet ASAP.  Old age for a dog comes up fast.  A year ago my Dalmatian was running like the wind in my back yard and about 4 weeks ago I had to have her put down at the age of 15 years 10 months.  Young or old, it doesn't make their passing any easier on you.  Within the space of one year we saw her eyesight get poor, hearing almost gone, losing weight and her legs giving out badly.  So sad.  My avatar is a heart shaped Dalmatian spot in memory of her.

Had it not be for a very special Vet I don't think Tandy would have made it to that age...way more than the average Dalmatian.  There is tick medicine we had to give Tandy as a precaution on her back every month for 6 months each year, and that was never a problem...called Revolution.  http://www.dr-dan.com/revolut.htm


Best wishes,

Brian


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## Present (Jul 4, 2011)

*Agree with go to the Vet*

My sweet Sheltie Sassy passed away at 14.  She had symptoms similar to what your dog is experiencing.  Sassy was diagnosed with both spinal stenosis and renal insufficiency.  We had to put her on pain medications, limit some of her activities and switch her to a renal diet.  Hope your baby is feeling better soon


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## Beaglemom3 (Jul 4, 2011)

I had similar as well. It was thought to be "old age vestibular" disease at first, but was not.

Let's hope it's something benign/treatable.


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## ottawasquaw (Jul 4, 2011)

Passepartout said:


> It's always the pits when a pet or loved one takes ill on a weekend as the OPs sheltie did.* Doesn't sound like she took the advice to get the dog to the local vet right away, though.*
> 
> Best wishes for a happy outcome. I Hope when our beloved Cocker Spaniel gets sick that she'll do it during business hours.
> 
> Jim Ricks



No, I did not, not yet. I have spent all of yesterday afternoon & today with Tootsie just being with her. Petting her and enjoying her. She doesn't seem to be in any pain or discomfort. Overall, she seems content, especially to be with me. She's slept a lot and a bit of her food this pm.
She's been deaf for at least a year. She has teeth (or lack there of) issues. My boys brushed her teeth early on, but she has not rec'd the dental care that they did.
She seems to have all sorts of balance & mobility problems. She can't back up. Sometimes her front legs go out and sometimes, her back. She can't navigate from side to side.
I'll do some research with the tips I've been given. It will equip me better when we to the vet. I am a little over an hour south of Purdue U. I am certain they have all the medical equipment there. However, I had such a horrible experience last fall going to three different vets - honestly, some of their help were completely awful. I had the same problem with groomers. I finally gave up and just take her back to Indy where's she always gone.
No matter what happens, I am going to make the best of it. She's been a great dog and given us many happy memories.
One last thing, unlike a lot of Shelties, I never let her put on any extra weight. She's tall and 23-25 pounds. Most vets have been amazed at her age because she's extremely fit.


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## slip (Jul 4, 2011)

My sons Sheltie just passed away 3 weeks ago. We just got the ashes back
this week. We spread some of them around the 3 yards he used to roam.
He was 3 weeks short of his 15th birthday. Sorry to say but Max had similar 
problems that your dog is dealing with now. Hope everything works out for all
of you in this difficult time. Every time I think of Max, I think how him and my
son were lifelong buddy's. We got him for my son's 6th birthday.


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## heathpack (Jul 4, 2011)

Yes, you are right if you need a neurologist there are two at Purdue.

The usual procedure is you see your general vet first, who will make the referral.  Purdue might accept cases without a referral, but probably not.  Good luck!

H



ottawasquaw said:


> No, I did not, not yet. I have spent all of yesterday afternoon & today with Tootsie just being with her. Petting her and enjoying her. She doesn't seem to be in any pain or discomfort. Overall, she seems content, especially to be with me. She's slept a lot and a bit of her food this pm.
> She's been deaf for at least a year. She has teeth (or lack there of) issues. My boys brushed her teeth early on, but she has not rec'd the dental care that they did.
> She seems to have all sorts of balance & mobility problems. She can't back up. Sometimes her front legs go out and sometimes, her back. She can't navigate from side to side.
> I'll do some research with the tips I've been given. It will equip me better when we to the vet. I am a little over an hour south of Purdue U. I am certain they have all the medical equipment there. However, I had such a horrible experience last fall going to three different vets - honestly, some of their help were completely awful. I had the same problem with groomers. I finally gave up and just take her back to Indy where's she always gone.
> ...


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## ottawasquaw (Jul 4, 2011)

You all have been so kind and helpful. I have to say that after 24 hours, her symptoms have improved greatly. Given her age, this might be the new normal. She stumbles and staggers but she is getting around. That is hugely important to me. I moved to a new house a couple of years ago and fenced the large back yard so she could roam. She was barking this afternoon. Her eyes are fine. It really threw me yesterday when this came on all of a sudden. She was a 10th birthday present to my son Max! My boys are grown and gone, but she really perks up when they visit. They were just hear a few weeks ago.
It's been a blessing that this happened when I could sit at home with her for a couple days.


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## pkyorkbeach (Jul 5, 2011)

Years ago my doberman acted oddly.  Legs went out from under her she could not get up...Took her to the vet. Had many tests done.  The vet thought she had cancer or tumor on the brain/spine.  Loved her so much it was difficult. Then one day she growled at the cat and the baby...Her personality changed.  She was only seven but had to put down.  It is difficult.  Hope your dog is well today.


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## ottawasquaw (Jul 6, 2011)

Well, 72 hours into this ordeal, I'd say that she is about the same. It's been over 24 hours since I took her to the vet. He's treating her for an ear infection although he could not actually diagnose it due to wax in her ears. He was unable to see her eardrums. My brother thought he should have cleaned out her ears instead of making an assumption. I am not sure how easy that would be given the ninety-degree angle.
She still staggers and stumbles. She falls. Her head tilts to the right. She can be very determined to navigate the steps and such. She's eating slightly less than half her normal food (1/2 c. 2x daily). The vet gave her a shot, some amoxicilin and NSAD along with an ointment to dissolve the wax. I dunno. I am not too keen on leaving her alone for long periods of time though she seems to be doing fine.


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## heathpack (Jul 6, 2011)

ottawasquaw said:


> Well, 72 hours into this ordeal, I'd say that she is about the same. It's been over 24 hours since I took her to the vet. He's treating her for an ear infection although he could not actually diagnose it due to wax in her ears. He was unable to see her eardrums. My brother thought he should have cleaned out her ears instead of making an assumption. I am not sure how easy that would be given the ninety-degree angle.
> She still staggers and stumbles. She falls. Her head tilts to the right. She can be very determined to navigate the steps and such. She's eating slightly less than half her normal food (1/2 c. 2x daily). The vet gave her a shot, some amoxicilin and NSAD along with an ointment to dissolve the wax. I dunno. I am not too keen on leaving her alone for long periods of time though she seems to be doing fine.



Ok, so now we know something.  She has a right head tilt and the wobbly gait is called ataxia.  This all means her symptoms are probably coming from her vestibular system.  Part of the vestibular system is in the inner ear and part is in the brain.  Sometimes a neurologist can tell for sure where the problem is by performing a neurologic exam, but sometimes it cannot be determined for sure from the exam.  It can also be hard to perform a good ear exam if the dog has vestibular signs, because the dog feels dizzy and the vet can make that feeling much worse by manipulating the head position.  Then the dog can start to panic and flail. Sometimes in that scenario, one would need a sedative or anesthesia for really look deep in the ear canal to visualize the ear drum.  However, an inner ear infection is an infection on the other size of the ear drum from the external ear canal.  You can't necessarily just see signs of an infection by looking with an otoscope.

Considering that the symptoms came on very suddenly, there are really two top considerations in your dog's case:  1.  A vascular accident (ie a stroke) or 2. Old dog vestibular syndrome.  

Most of the time in dogs we don't know for sure why a stroke occurs, but sometimes it occurs secondary to a bleeding disorder, atherosclerosis (the main cause of which in dogs is low thyroid function), urinary protein loss (with loss of an anti-clot blood protein called antithrombin III), and high pressure (sometimes a primary problem, sometimes secondary to an endocrine disease called Cushing's disease, sometime secondary to renal disease, sometimes secondary to heart disease).  Therefore, she should have her bloodwork checked (CBC, chemistry panel, and urinalysis), thyroid testing, blood pressure check, and chest xrays.  The good news if that there is a stroke, most dogs will make a good recovery with time and sometimes a course of prednisone (a steroid) to decrease edema in the surrounding brain tissue.

More common than a stroke is Old Dog Vestibular syndrome.  This is a self limiting disease of unknown cause, usually improves or resolves without treatment.

An inner ear infection is certainly possible, but typically symptoms would not come on as instantanously as you describe.  It is also possible that there is a more ominous disease such as a brain tumor or encephalitis that had a sudden change like hemorrhage to account for the onset of symptoms that you saw.

Other than the tests as described above, a brain/inner ear MRI and possibly a spinal tap or myringotomy (procedure in which fluid is removed from the inner ear by inserting a needle across the ear drum) are indicated.  To have the MRI/spinal tap/myringotomy procedure, she would need to be anesthetized.  If you wanted to go this route, you'd go see the neurologist at Purdue and they would organize it.  If you do not want to proceed with anesthetized tests, it is very reasonable to treat with steroids or NSAIDs (steroids more effective in my experience), antibiotics and possibly an anti-nausea/anti motion-sickness medication such as meclazine. 

I would encourage you to hang in there with her.  Try to give her at least a week or two.  If she has old dog vestibular syndrome or had a stroke, you may be very surprised at how well she does in the long run.  With both of these diseases, you should not see her get any worse, so if that happens you have to be very concerned that something else is going on (like a brain tumor).

Good luck and let us know how things turn out with her.

H


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## ottawasquaw (Jul 7, 2011)

Thank you, heathpack!! You are very generous to take the time to educate me! She's managing. She's such a trooper. Lots of determination and a strong will. I see what you are saying and understand that this may be how things are. All the best to you!


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## JudyH (Jul 7, 2011)

Ours had old dog vestibular, with those exact symptoms.  By three weeks she was much better, and the last two years of her life you could never tell she had had it.  Good luck.


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## ottawasquaw (Jul 11, 2011)

Thank you for the encouragement! She's doing about the same. She's greatly improved from her original symptoms, eats well and barks. She can enter and exit my 2-step home unassisted. She trots around the yard some. Her head still lags to the right and she stumbles and falls occasionally. I'd say we are both feeling better about her situation!


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## pjrose (Jul 11, 2011)

*similar problem with young cat*

A young cat in a rescue for which I volunteer had similar symptoms; in her case it was a bad undetected ear infection.  She was probably around 6 months old at the time; without warning she was tilting her head, falling over and uninterested in food and water, and soon thereafter was just lying down doing nothing.  (This all occurred within a short time - overnight or half a day.)  The veterinarian diagnosed an ear infection which was treated with antibiotics, if I recall correctly (it was a year ago).  Anyway, the kitty is completely recovered but has what is probably a permanent head-tilt.


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## shagnut (Jul 12, 2011)

I hope she gets better soon, I almost lost my precious dog, Monkey Sunday.
(She's going to make it)
shaggy


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## heathpack (Jul 12, 2011)

ottawasquaw said:


> Thank you for the encouragement! She's doing about the same. She's greatly improved from her original symptoms, eats well and barks. She can enter and exit my 2-step home unassisted. She trots around the yard some. Her head still lags to the right and she stumbles and falls occasionally. I'd say we are both feeling better about her situation!



Nice!

H


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## ottawasquaw (Jul 29, 2011)

Hi There!
I thought I'd log in and share a quick update. Tootsie is about the same. Still has the head lag. Actually that side of her body looks a bit crumpled and she doesn't seem too sure of that back leg. She's ok, but she is suddenly old. She's a lot less active. She gets around ok but does not seem as enthusiastic as she once was. She is still very sweet and loving - maybe more so.
I guess I should add, I wish people could age as gracefully!


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## Steve (Jul 29, 2011)

Thanks for the update.  I hope that you have some good times together in her senior years.  It's hard to see our pets age, but it just makes the time we have with them all the more valuable.

Steve


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## shagnut (Jul 29, 2011)

Ottawasquaw, please take your dog to the vet. She is obviously very sick. I'm not trying to be ugly or judgemental, but I almost lost my pug, Monkey over the 4th of July weekend. I was at the beach over 4 hrs away and authorized the emergeny vet to take care of her & save her life. At a cost of almost $700 which I couldn't afford, she is alive and well, recovering from a heat stroke. I'll be eating beans & weinies for awhile but my baby is here with me and cuddling up to me at bedtime. All of a sudden I even don't mind her snore!! 

Best wishes to you & your sweet buddy.  shaggy


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## heathpack (Jul 30, 2011)

OP did take the dog to the vet.  They are treating for possible inner ear infection.

H


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## shagnut (Jul 30, 2011)

*Heath ?*

I'm sorry. I must have missed that. It came out harsher than I meant. 

Heath, you know Monkey (my pug) was treated for heat stroke. Kelli walked her a little to far. She is doing well now. Is there a chance down the rode that she can have a relapse , something neurological , or is she basically out of the woods?  

Thank you so much for all your help to me and the other tuggers.  

Hugs, shaggy


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## heathpack (Jul 30, 2011)

shagnut said:


> I'm sorry. I must have missed that. It came out harsher than I meant.
> 
> Heath, you know Monkey (my pug) was treated for heat stroke. Kelli walked her a little to far. She is doing well now. Is there a chance down the rode that she can have a relapse , something neurological , or is she basically out of the woods?
> 
> ...



You are TOTALLY out of the woods!

However (why must there always be a "however"?) the most likely reason a Pug would overheat on a walk is that they have something called "brachycephalic airway syndrome" which is a constellation of anatomical abnormalities associated with having a pushed-in face.  Surgical correction of the anatomical issues can be very helpful in minimizing the likelihood of more problems down the road.  That type of surgery should be performed by a board-certified surgeon, it's not the most major surgery in the world, not trendmendously expensive but not cheap either.

H


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## shagnut (Jul 30, 2011)

Both of my pugs noses are the kinds that look like they have run into a wall. I don't really have the money to pay for elective surgery. Monkey will only stay out a couple of minutes now that it is soooo hot. Kelli knows not to walk her out  of the yard but does put her leash on her and takes walks with  her in the front yard at night when it's cooled down.  She walks Mater down the road a little farther when it's cools at night.   

Thanks for telling me she is out of the woods!!!:whoopie: :whoopie:  
Her vet has been my vet for over 30 yrs. Not knowing that when I got her from the breeder that my vet had been making house calls where I got her. The first time I brought her in he said, "Monkey!!! You are so lucky you have a wonderful home!!  Last year he said when he died he would like to come back as one of my pets!!!! We have a mutual admiration society going on here and I was scared to death when I was at the beach and all this happened, mainly because it wasn't Dr. B. 

Thanks again for being here to help all of us.  shaggy


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