# Worldmark No Longer Verifying exchange deposits to TPI



## djyamyam (Jan 14, 2020)

I've been depositing WM units that I've reserved into TPI for a couple years now.  I attempted to deposit a few more at the end of last year before some credit increases.  They went undeposited by WM.  I called owner care today and was told the exchange department that used to be in Seattle closed at the end of Dec and that there is new department that looks after no longer will verify deposits made to a third party exchange company.  I was told this by an owner care rep who got the information from a supervisor.  Apparently, there was one person in the department that knew how to work with third parties but that person has now left.

Has anyone heard this?  I read on another post that TPI was no longer getting Wyndham Waikiki Beach Walk deposits.  Are these issues linked?


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## Synergy (Jan 15, 2020)

I don't mean that I like, I mean, 'I'd like to draw attention to this post.'  Is there anyone familiar with using third party exchanges with Worldmark around?


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## Eric B (Jan 15, 2020)

There was a similar posting re: deposits to TPI for Hawaiian Wyndham weeks no longer being done. 

https://tugbbs.com/forums/threads/t...am-week-home-resort-waikiki-beachwalk.299639/

It sounds more like a policy change than a loss of knowledge.  I haven’t been using TPI, but SFX instead and they never had Wyndham verify the deposit but accepted a copy of the confirmation email.  Not sure what they do for WM.


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## Tahiya (Jan 23, 2020)

I wrote an email to the WM Exchange Dept last Fri asking this question, but haven't yet heard back.  Will let you know when/if I hear back.


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## djyamyam (Jan 24, 2020)

Tahiya said:


> I wrote an email to the WM Exchange Dept last Fri asking this question, but haven't yet heard back.  Will let you know when/if I hear back.



I had sent an email as well but got a reply that my request had been declined and that TPI needed to send the request not me.  All I was trying to do was get them to confirm they got the request since TPI had sent the request twice.  Haven't heard since and it's been another 5 days


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## ecwinch (Jan 24, 2020)

I know the popular theory is that this some evil plan by Wyndham to [fill in the blank]. 

But is there any chance that this is a change at TPI?


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## bizaro86 (Jan 24, 2020)

ecwinch said:


> I know the popular theory is that this some evil plan by Wyndham to [fill in the blank].
> 
> But is there any chance that this is a change at TPI?



Looking at incentives it doesn't seem likely. TPI presumably wants the business. If they didn't, what incentive would they have to tell djyamyam they had tried twice? Wouldn't they just say they couldnt/dont do it? Seems like that would be likely to waste their time dealing with him for no reason. But they probably want the exchange fee (given that is their business) so are trying to get it done.

On the other hand, Worldmark doesn't gain much from 3rd party exchange companies. It's almost certainly more work for them than using RCI/II (and even with II things are far from seamless). Their management would likely prefer everyone use corporate sibling rci, so they dont have an incentive to train people on procedures for third party exchange companies that few members will use.


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## geist1223 (Jan 24, 2020)

Just remember Worldmark has no employees.  The WM BOD refuses to get involved in any way in these types of decisions. Don't want to muck around in day to day details and get their hands dirty. These are Wyndham Employees making these decisions. And it does little to no good to write the WM BOD.  You will only get a reply from a Wyndham employee in so called "Owner" Care.


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## Synergy (Jan 25, 2020)

Back when they did verify to independent exchanges, did you have to use a guest certificate to put the week in TPIs name? And then again when they found a guest?


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## djyamyam (Jan 25, 2020)

Synergy said:


> Back when they did verify to independent exchanges, did you have to use a guest certificate to put the week in TPIs name? And then again when they found a guest?



Nope.  Never had to do anything with guest certs.  I would occasionally get emails about multiple reservations violations (because I would deposit more than one reservation with the same check-in date or back-to-back reservations.  But I would call owner care to have them connect with WM exchange dept and we'd be good


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## ecwinch (Jan 25, 2020)

bizaro86 said:


> Looking at incentives it doesn't seem likely. TPI presumably wants the business. If they didn't, what incentive would they have to tell djyamyam they had tried twice? Wouldn't they just say they couldnt/dont do it? Seems like that would be likely to waste their time dealing with him for no reason. But they probably want the exchange fee (given that is their business) so are trying to get it done.
> 
> On the other hand, Worldmark doesn't gain much from 3rd party exchange companies. It's almost certainly more work for them than using RCI/II (and even with II things are far from seamless). Their management would likely prefer everyone use corporate sibling rci, so they dont have an incentive to train people on procedures for third party exchange companies that few members will use.



In your analysis, are you considering the data point offered in this thread about TPI no longer accepting Club Wyndham Hawaii weeks unless it is a home resort deposit?  Clearly something has changed at TPI since being acquired by Marriott. I can dream up a number of conspiracy theories on why that might be, given the facts at hand (... winding down TPI to facilitate II taking over their business, wanting to stick to Wyndham, etc...)

That pattern seems similar, and you could apply your same rebuttal to that scenario....

Because what party is the "moving party" in this story.... aka the one who appears to be changing their policies? Also consider the passivity of TPI when explaining the glitch. If TPI is truly interested in servicing the customer and generating the revenue as you speculate, what would a prudent person do? Maybe get on the phone and get this ironed out? I know that is what I would be doing if I was running TPI.


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## tschwa2 (Jan 25, 2020)

Wyndham won't verify deposits for anyone other than RCI and (II for those grandfathered accounts although it can be difficult to find a rep who knows how to do it).  They did have a relationship with TPI pre ILG purchase of TPI.  Perhaps that relationship/contract expired.  This relationship was a selling point for Wyndham sales in Hawaii up until the last year.  With Wyndham managing many aspects of Worldmark I can see them refusing to verify deposits from Worldmark owners.


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## bizaro86 (Jan 25, 2020)

ecwinch said:


> In your analysis, are you considering the data point offered in this thread about TPI no longer accepting Club Wyndham Hawaii weeks unless it is a home resort deposit?  Clearly something has changed at TPI since being acquired by Marriott. I can dream up a number of conspiracy theories on why that might be, given the facts at hand (... winding down TPI to facilitate II taking over their business, wanting to stick to Wyndham, etc...)
> 
> That pattern seems similar, and you could apply your same rebuttal to that scenario....
> 
> Because what party is the "moving party" in this story.... aka the one who appears to be changing their policies. Also consider the passivity of TPI when explaining the glitch. If TPI is truly interested in servicing the customer and generating the revenue as you speculate, what would a prudent person do? Maybe get on the phone and get this ironed out? I know that is what I would be doing if I was running TPI.



Good point about TPI being owned by II et al. That does change things, as they might have motivations that aren't strictly related to the economics of TPI.


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## ecwinch (Jan 25, 2020)

tschwa2 said:


> Wyndham won't verify deposits for anyone other than RCI and (II for those grandfathered accounts although it can be difficult to find a rep who knows how to do it).  They did have a relationship with TPI pre ILG purchase of TPI.  Perhaps that relationship/contract expired.  This relationship was a selling point for Wyndham sales in Hawaii up until the last year.  With Wyndham managing many aspects of Worldmark I can see them refusing to verify deposits from Worldmark owners.



Perhaps. So how can one reconcile the fact that TPI does still accept Club Wyndham deposits - but only if it is your home resort?  Clearly what TPI has to verify is that you both own and that the week is available. 

We had a similar panic with these 2nd tier exchange companies when guest certificates were implemented. And I never could get anyone to explain to me what process those companies used when confirming a reservation in the name of the guest. This seems of a similar ilk.


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## bnoble (Jan 25, 2020)

ecwinch said:


> So how can one reconcile the fact that TPI does still accept Club Wyndham deposits - but only if it is your home resort?


*Possibly* because the resort can independently verify the owner's rights, and TPI is willing to call resorts directly. We know that Wyndham won't verify e.g. SFX deposits, and instead SFX has the depositor acquire guest certificates directly, trusting they will do so. It's possible TPI doesn't want to bother with that/take that risk.


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## tschwa2 (Jan 25, 2020)

ecwinch said:


> Perhaps. So how can one reconcile the fact that TPI does still accept Club Wyndham deposits - but only if it is your home resort?  Clearly what TPI has to verify is that you both own and that the week is available.
> 
> We had a similar panic with these 2nd tier exchange companies when guest certificates were implemented. And I never could get anyone to explain to me what process those companies used when confirming a reservation in the name of the guest. This seems of a similar ilk.


As part of the sales, they offered some kind of upgraded TPI membership just for Wyndham Hawaii owners.

This is a quote from a member about the language from her Hawaii points purchase contract:  “ The Seller and The Association have entered into a contact (Exchange Contract) with Trading Places International (TPI) . The contract provides that TPI will make its Premier Access exchange program available to owners in this plan. For a description of the Premier Access exchange program, please consult the exchange directory and related materials published by TPI.” 

Perhaps the Hawaii resorts themselves are confirming the deposits per contractual agreements in the same way that if you own a fixed or float week with Wyndham you verify and add guest information directly through the resort and not through wyndham owner services.  

My understanding is that they aren't allowing home resort reservations for Wyndham owners, only Hawaii home resort reservations.


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## ecwinch (Jan 25, 2020)

tschwa2 - I get that... I own at a Club Wyndham resort in Hawaii and am a TPI member under that program.... and I am also pretty sure that the front desk does not verify deposits with TPI. As I understand it, that only occurs with "legacy weeks" like my Wyndham Riverside Suites, that are not in the Club Wyndham points system.

But my CW Royal Garden floating week is handled the points system, which TPI will accept and verify.


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## tschwa2 (Jan 25, 2020)

bnoble said:


> *Possibly* because the resort can independently verify the owner's rights, and TPI is willing to call resorts directly. We know that Wyndham won't verify e.g. SFX deposits, and instead SFX has the depositor acquire guest certificates directly, trusting they will do so. It's possible TPI doesn't want to bother with that/take that risk.


And if they have to go with the SFX model it would require 1-2 guest certificates per deposit/exchange.


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## tschwa2 (Jan 25, 2020)

ecwinch said:


> tschwa2 - I get that... I own at a Club Wyndham resort in Hawaii and am a TPI member under that program.... and I am also pretty sure that the front desk does not verify deposits with TPI. As I understand it, that only occurs with "legacy weeks" like my Wyndham Riverside Suites, that are not in the Club Wyndham points system.
> 
> But my CW Royal Garden floating week is handled the points system, which TPI will accept and verify.


I owned a legacy week, so that was a guess on my part and since you know that isn't how they handle Royal Garden, then that debunks that theory.

My fallback then is there is some kind of contractual obligation that Wyndham still has to verify the Hawaiian home weeks and if or as soon as they no longer have to they won't.


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## ecwinch (Jan 25, 2020)

tschwa2 said:


> My fallback then is there is some kind of contractual obligation that Wyndham still has to verify the Hawaiian home weeks and if or as soon as they no longer have to they won't.



Perhaps. But also consider that what you believe might be true, but in regards to TPI's contractually obligations, not Wyndham's. And while TPI can easily point the finger at Wyndham, that might not be the true issue. Because clearly this more about a policy change, and less about having a process for verifying. Because some people are being given the answer "we sent it twice" and thats all we can do.

In the IT world ... this game gets played a lot when you have two vendor/companies involved. My experience has taught me that the company that is offering the excuse and not trying to get the issue resolved is usually the one playing the games.


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## Tahiya (Jan 27, 2020)

I received a very pleasant email back this morning from WM Exchange staff stating that WM is still confirming exchanges w independent exchange companies, just as they have done historically.  There has been no policy chhange.


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