# Disney Rentals



## TUGBrian (Nov 26, 2013)

I have a question id like to ask you disney folks regarding renting a disney unit from an owner.

It has come up recently that there are some issues in confirming (as a renter) a DVC reservation...in that 1. they wont confirm any ownership info/etc to anyone who isnt an owner at that resort...and 2. that as the owner of the week in question being rented, you dont actually get a confirmation of the week until a very short time before the week comes up?

The issue being reported is that there is no real way as a renter to confirm the owner has what they say they have because of DVC policies...is this true?

In every rental ive ever done from another party, I am able to obtain a copy of the confirmation of the week im looking to rent with the owners name on it before I submit payment.

After that I am also able to confirm with the resort that my name is on the check-in list prior to arrival.

My question is thus:

1. are the above issues true with DVC?

and

2. how do you folks rent DVC units without being able to provide confirmation to the renters?  (id never send anyone money without some sort of proof they actually owned what they said they did)


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## scootr5 (Nov 26, 2013)

TUGBrian said:


> I have a question id like to ask you disney folks regarding renting a disney unit from an owner.
> 
> It has come up recently that there are some issues in confirming (as a renter) a DVC reservation...in that 1. they wont confirm any ownership info/etc to anyone who isnt an owner at that resort...and 2. that as the owner of the week in question being rented, you dont actually get a confirmation of the week until a very short time before the week comes up?
> 
> ...




My neighbor booked a DVC unit for me for next summer, and forwarded me the registration confirmation email the next day. I can click the link in the email and be taken to the Disney website where I see all of the specifics of the reservation, including owner name and address and guest names.


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## slum808 (Nov 26, 2013)

Yes the confirmation email is usually sufficient.  You could also do a three way call with member service and have them confirm the details of the reservation.  

Since its a points not week system its the reservation not the ownership week that matters.


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## brigechols (Nov 26, 2013)

slum808 said:


> Yes the confirmation email is usually sufficient.  You could also do a three way call with member service and have them confirm the details of the reservation.
> 
> Since its a points not week system its the reservation not the ownership week that matters.



The ownership is important to ensure you are not renting an exchange.


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## slum808 (Nov 26, 2013)

The confirmation email should be from dvc and it should provide the points per night.


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## PearlCity (Nov 26, 2013)

Yes you get a confirmation email right away (well within 24 hours) from Disney. That reservation can be looked up online.


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## Pro (Nov 26, 2013)

The only problem or risk involved, is that the DVC owner can cancel the reservation at any time.  Even the day before check-in.  There has to be some trust between renter and DVC owner.

Joe


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## presley (Nov 26, 2013)

When I owned and rented out my VGC points, the renter just had to accept a screenshot of my reservation in their name.  There was no way for them to verify it with the resort.

For those renting from owners in Florida, there was a website where people could see their reservation by entering their name and reservation #.  However, anytime that a change was made to reservations (adding magical express, dining plan, name change) the reservation # would change.


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## ptlohmysoul (Nov 27, 2013)

TUGBrian said:


> I have a question id like to ask you disney folks regarding renting a disney unit from an owner.
> 
> It has come up recently that there are some issues in confirming (as a renter) a DVC reservation...in that 1. they wont confirm any ownership info/etc to anyone who isnt an owner at that resort...and 2. that as the owner of the week in question being rented, you dont actually get a confirmation of the week until a very short time before the week comes up?
> 
> ...



The Orange county Comptroller's website can be used to confirm ownership of the timeshare.  The e-mail confirmation of reservation (sometimes sent in minutes, but in hours in other cases) is sent to the owner and can be forwarded to the person renting.  Many people who rent out points provide references too, but having a presence on mouseowners.com and/or disboards.com may reassure some people.


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## TUGBrian (Nov 27, 2013)

Guess my main question/concern was if an owner claiming to have a DVC unit for rent was giving a potential renter the runaround saying that it was impossible to provide proof or confirmation that they actually indeed owned that week/interval/etc....was either full of crap...or trying to scam them.

There should be no issue whatsoever with a DVC owner obtaining and providing a copy of some sort of confirmation email/letter that they have the week they claim to have for rent correct?


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## itradehilton (Nov 27, 2013)

I rented from David's rentals. Within 24 hours of paying I was able to go to my Disney website, enter the confirmation # and see my DVC reservation online in my name. Yes, now I just have to have faith that it won't be cancelled but that is why I choose to rent from this broker.


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## presley (Nov 27, 2013)

TUGBrian said:


> Guess my main question/concern was if an owner claiming to have a DVC unit for rent was giving a potential renter the runaround saying that it was impossible to provide proof or confirmation that they actually indeed owned that week/interval/etc....was either full of crap...or trying to scam them.
> 
> There should be no issue whatsoever with a DVC owner obtaining and providing a copy of some sort of confirmation email/letter that they have the week they claim to have for rent correct?



As soon as the DVC member makes a reservation, they can take a screenshot of their account and show the reservation dates, room type and names on the reservation.

ETA:  They have nothing to lose by doing this.  DVC requires the member's social security to change anything in the account.  Showing the DVC owner # will not put the owner in any danger.  If they refuse to do the screenshot, refuse to do business with them.


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## sarahtug (Nov 29, 2013)

Can the reservation and screen shot be done prior to payment?  Most of the solutions listed are after payment has already been sent.  I am looking for proof that the renter is legit PRIOR to sending payment.

Is there any issue with the renter making the reservation for the week I want PRIOR to receiving any payment from me?  i.e. is there some penalty or cancellation fee for them if I decide not to rent the week from them in the end?


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## vacationhopeful (Nov 29, 2013)

sarahtug said:


> ....Is there any issue with the renter making the reservation for the week I want PRIOR to receiving any payment from me?  i.e. is there some penalty or cancellation fee for them if I decide not to rent the week from them in the end?



I don't think you would be happy renting from a private owner - there is a certain level of mutual trust and respect between both parties. The timeshare owner is NOT collecting a paycheck for the time they have taken in HOLDING your hand for helping you to plan YOUR FAMILY vacation. You are renting their HOME (yes a vacation timeshare home). Esp if you SAY or PAY them for using their vacation week AND then change your mind?  Why, would you change you mind?  Found a cheaper option to visit Disney? Decide the weather is too hot or the parks MIGHT be crowded or decided on another "dream family vacation"? 

As for PROOF, call the owner and talk to them. Most will offer various paperwork to prove ownership - I have MFs invoices, resort photos and screen shots. But your should do this type of homework before your 3rd email inquiry --- not after a reservation is made and YOU have made the payment.

PS I rented the Thanksgiving Weekend to a couple from Ohio. Talked to husband, emailed proof of reservation, sent a link to the developer's video link, gave them the front desk phone number to verify the reservation number, took $100 to put Guest Certificate via cashier's check, put GC in their name, and husband mailed the final payment. Yes, I had a rental contract which husband signed .... all because, his WIFE was sure this was a Craigslist scam ... until they checkin. He sent all the stuff from the office. Got the email today, THEY LOVE THE CONDO. I got $34 over MY costs.


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## sarahtug (Nov 29, 2013)

The reason I ask is because I just got scammed for over $2000 on a Disney rental.  The person I was dealing with was not the owner, he claimed he was a broker who had been working with this owner for years.  Long story, but with Disney you cannot just call the resort and verify the reservation for all the reasons listed in the previous posts.  I am looking for a way to verify a Disney rental is legit before I send any money, that is all.  So far I have not seen any good answers to this...


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## presley (Nov 29, 2013)

sarahtug said:


> The reason I ask is because I just got scammed for over $2000 on a Disney rental.  The person I was dealing with was not the owner, he claimed he was a broker who had been working with this owner for years.  Long story, but with Disney you cannot just call the resort and verify the reservation for all the reasons listed in the previous posts.  I am looking for a way to verify a Disney rental is legit before I send any money, that is all.  So far I have not seen any good answers to this...



There's no way you can do that.  You can only do that if you rent directly from Disney.  

Even if someone give you access to their personal account and you see that the reservation is really there, they can cancel it at anytime.  

Brokers are just middlemen who add one more person to the puzzle.  They cannot guarantee that the DVC owner will not cancel your reservation at any point.

ETA:  You can check public records for the deed and see if said person really owns it.  That shows you they own it.  It won't prove that they have any points available to book or that they are not in default.  There was one person who kept booking reservations, sending confirmations, getting the money and then cancelling and doing it again.  It's how she was making her income at the time.


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## bnoble (Nov 29, 2013)

> They cannot guarantee that the DVC owner will not cancel your reservation at any point.


But at least one (DVC Request) promises to make you whole if the underlying owner pulls your reservation.  He charges a little more, but is pretty easy to work with.  I've never rented from him---I only exchange in---but many others have, and report positive experiences.


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## sarahtug (Nov 29, 2013)

Yes I've looked at DVC Request (David's Vacation Club rentals).  He is quite a bit more expensive than ads I've seen on TUG.  For example, the week I got scammed on was March 16-23, 2014.  The TUG ad was $2240 for a 2BR at Bay Lake Tower.  Through DVC request the same 2BR would be $6608.  Quite a bit of a difference.  Of course, mine turned out to be a scam - thus the $2240 was indeed too good to be true…However I have seen other Disney rentals on TUG listed in the $2500-3000 range for a 2BR at various Disney resorts…so it wasn't THAT far off from reality...


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## sarahtug (Nov 29, 2013)

By the way, before going ahead with this rental I got scammed on, I did check the Orange County comptroller site as was suggested on some websites I researched.  But the problem is a good scammer can do the same and just pick a name for his "owner" from that site...


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## vacationhopeful (Nov 29, 2013)

Saratug,
Sorry as to you getting ripped off. Renting from a DVC owner (or their broker) does save you money over renting from Disney directly - but it comes with risks. 

As to future stays at Disney, you might want to consider buying a small DVC points contract - you can transfer ONCE a year DVC points from another member into your account. Cheaper than renting from David - but the points transfer can not be reversed or cancelled. Plus, by banking and borrowing, you can use 3 years worth of points in 1 year.

I have a small points contract (AKV - 90pts) - and have rented OUT my points to David. Pays my DVC MFs and pays for my Disney AP plus exchange fees into the multitude of resorts in the Orlando area.


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## bnoble (Nov 29, 2013)

> the week I got scammed on was March 16-23, 2014. The TUG ad was $2240 for a 2BR at Bay Lake Tower.
> ...
> I have seen other Disney rentals on TUG listed in the $2500-3000 range for a 2BR at various Disney resorts…so it wasn't THAT far off from reality...


The market price for DVC rentals is no less than $10 per point---and lately, I'd say it's closer to $11 or $12.  The absolute rock-bottom least-expensive BLT 2BR during Magic Season (that week in march) is 354 points.  Anyone advertising that week for less than $3500 is either a stone cold idiot, or ripping you off.


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## sarahtug (Nov 29, 2013)

There's an ad right now on TUG for Disney's Beach Club, 2BR lock off for $2450.

Also on TUG, Disney's Animal Kingdom for $2800 for 2BR lock off.

Scams??


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## vacationhopeful (Nov 29, 2013)

sarahtug said:


> There's an ad right now on TUG for Disney's Beach Club, 2BR lock off for $2450.
> 
> Also on TUG, Disney's Animal Kingdom for $2800 for 2BR lock off.
> 
> Scams??



Dang, again --- bnoble has stated a truism ... I can rent my points thru David's (and another broker or two) for $11 per point. I get 50% of the money from David IMMEDIATELY after I give him the confirmation and get the balance when his guest checks in. He provides the opportunity for me to book for his guests (requests) and I get the MFs plus some profit. That thread on TUG is easily found via a SEARCH. 354 points is $3894 of income to me - and I am sure that travel agency is making a decent profit also.


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## bnoble (Nov 29, 2013)

sarahtug said:


> There's an ad right now on TUG for Disney's Beach Club, 2BR lock off for $2450.
> 
> Also on TUG, Disney's Animal Kingdom for $2800 for 2BR lock off.
> 
> Scams??



Depends on what time of year and view they are for, as point costs can vary.

The AKV listing is probably kosher.  It states the week is "white" season---that's middle-tier, so it probably means Choice or Dream season for DVC bookings, not Magic.  It also states the view is woods/pool, which means it's *not* a Savannah view, but is probably Standard instead.  A Standard 2BR at AKV costs 229 points in Choice season and 255 points in Dream, so a $2800 rental is between $11 and $12.20, give or take a few pennies.  That sounds about right to me.  

The BCV listing is a little dicier.  It also states white season.  A 2BR BCV costs 211 points in Choice, but 255 in Dream.  At $2450, the Choice is $11.60 and the Dream is only $9.60.

These look like they were posted by the same person; I'll go out on a limb and suggest that if you call them to book something in Magic Season (and maybe even in Dream) the price will go up.

Caveat emptor.


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## presley (Nov 29, 2013)

sarahtug said:


> By the way, before going ahead with this rental I got scammed on, I did check the Orange County comptroller site as was suggested on some websites I researched.  But the problem is a good scammer can do the same and just pick a name for his "owner" from that site...



I think so, too.  Plus, proving that anyone owns anything from DVC doesn't mean that they won't cancel your reservation anyway.  People default on their DVC loans all the time. DVC doesn't care because they can easily sell it for full retail again.  

What are you doing legally to get your money back?


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## JimMIA (Nov 29, 2013)

TUGBrian said:


> It has come up recently that there are some issues in confirming (as a renter) a DVC reservation...in that 1. they wont confirm any ownership info/etc to anyone who isnt an owner at that resort...


That's correct.  DVC Member Services will not speak to anyone other than the owner about a reservation made on a particular account.  If you stop and think about it, why should they?  I would not want anyone talking to anyone except ME about reservations made on MY account with MY points.  





> and 2. that as the owner of the week in question being rented, you dont actually get a confirmation of the week until a very short time before the week comes up?


Regarding confirmations, I've had everything from very quick written confirmations to no confirmation at all.  But the above info on screen shots and checking the reservation through the regular Disney site (not DVC) is correct.



> how do you folks rent DVC units without being able to provide confirmation to the renters?  (id never send anyone money without some sort of proof they actually owned what they said they did)


Generally, there are very, very few frauds with DVC (or probably most timeshares).  A MUCH bigger problem I've seen with DVC rentals has been caused by misunderstandings between the owner and renter which led to difficulties.  Sometimes those involve the renter trying to change plans, and finding that the change they want is not possible.  Other times, the renter does not meet the payment schedule they agreed to, which creates difficulties...and sometimes cancellations.

I think the best way to protect yourself is to use a service like David's.  Like Brian, I have never used him but I've read numerous rave reviews.  Basically, David holds back 1/2 of the proceeds of the rental until the renter checks into their DVC villa.  Only then does the owner get the balance of their payment.  That is an important protection for the renter.


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## sarahtug (Nov 29, 2013)

I filed criminal charges (still ongoing), and I filed an official claim/dispute with Paypal.  I did get my money back from Paypal, but they are out the $2,000+ as the person emptied the funds out of their account and never looked back.  I think this person has quite a scheme going.  It's a long story and I'll post it sometime soon, but the bottom line is that the entity that "loses" in the end is Paypal.  That's why this guy is able to perpetuate his scam over and over again...


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## presley (Nov 29, 2013)

sarahtug said:


> I filed criminal charges (still ongoing), and I filed an official claim/dispute with Paypal.  I did get my money back from Paypal, but they are out the $2,000+ as the person emptied the funds out of their account and never looked back.  I think this person has quite a scheme going.  It's a long story and I'll post it sometime soon, but the bottom line is that the entity that "loses" in the end is Paypal.  That's why this guy is able to perpetuate his scam over and over again...



Glad to hear you got your refund.  Sorry to hear about Paypal.  I'm a small business owner and I know for excellent customer service, we have to make up for employees and clients mistakes.  In the end, we all lose because costs are folded back into services to cover these debts.  

I hope this person gets all they deserve and much more.  Keep us posted.

ETA:  While you still will have the same concerns about verifying a reservation, Mouseowners.com has a great rental board.  There are mega owners there who are very active in their forums as well as in the rental area.  The good part about that is that they are part of a tight community and everyone looks out for each other.  You still have to be cautious because liars/cheats will visit there sometimes.  For the most part, if they have over 100 posts not related to renting their DVC points, I'd trust them.


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## AnnaS (Nov 30, 2013)

Pro said:


> The only problem or risk involved, is that the DVC owner can cancel the reservation at any time.  Even the day before check-in.  There has to be some trust between renter and DVC owner.
> 
> Joe





presley said:


> There's no way you can do that.  You can only do that if you rent directly from Disney.
> 
> Even if someone give you access to their personal account and you see that the reservation is really there, they can cancel it at anytime.
> 
> ...



All the above.



sarahtug said:


> I filed criminal charges (still ongoing), and I filed an official claim/dispute with Paypal.  I did get my money back from Paypal, but they are out the $2,000+ as the person emptied the funds out of their account and never looked back.  I think this person has quite a scheme going.  It's a long story and I'll post it sometime soon, but the bottom line is that the entity that "loses" in the end is Paypal.  That's why this guy is able to perpetuate his scam over and over again...




Glad to read you were able to get a refund.  Not good for Paypal - I have never used Paypal for anything but I am sure there must be a fee for this service and they must somehow be covered for such losses.  Again, though, I am clueless when it comes to Paypal and their business.  

I would be afraid to rent from a total stranger even with vrbo.  I always browse the site.  Take a flight with my family and find I have no reservation  It's not just about the money.


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## PearlCity (Nov 30, 2013)

Sorry to hear you got scammed. Yes renting has its risks involved. One of the reasons I bough resale points was to not have to deal with the risk of being scammed while on vacation at Disney. My time at Disney usually involves a long plane ride with little kids and I don't want to show up at the timeshare to discover being scammed. 

I want to say one of the brokers does not pay out all of the money to the owner until after the reservation is complete but I forgot which one and yes they cost more.


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## vacationhopeful (Nov 30, 2013)

sarahtug said:


> I filed criminal charges (still ongoing), and I filed an official claim/dispute with Paypal.  I did get my money back from Paypal, but they are out the $2,000+ as the person emptied the funds out of their account and never looked back.  I think this person has quite a scheme going.  It's a long story and I'll post it sometime soon, but the bottom line is that the entity that "loses" in the end is Paypal.  That's why this guy is able to perpetuate his scam over and over again...



Okay - let's see --* you GOT your MONEY BACK.* You are only out the HAPPINESS of having maybe scored a CHEAP Disney Vacation -- the cheapest on the all the websites you hunted high and low for. 

Did you learn ANYTHING? Perhaps, my grandmother's old adage of: YOU GET  WHAT YOU PAY FOR.

TUG Member bnoble gave you some very good advice -- reasonable rates for the time and unit size you are looking for *OR* go in a lesser season for a cheaper stay for an onsite Disney experience. 

There are NO FAIRIES with PIXIE DUST here on TUG - no free (or below MF costs for) onsite DISNEY vacations. 

AND if you MUST always be onsite --- buy DVC points and plan.


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## tschwa2 (Nov 30, 2013)

JimMIA said:


> That's correct.  DVC Member Services will not speak to anyone other than the owner about a reservation made on a particular account.  *If you stop and think about it, why should they?  I would not want anyone talking to anyone except ME about reservations made on MY account with MY points.*  Regarding confirmations, I've had everything from very quick written confirmations to no confirmation at all.  But the above info on screen shots and checking the reservation through the regular Disney site (not DVC) is correct.



Although no one but you should be able to make any changes to a reservation, it seems like someone who has been added to the reservation and is authorized to check in should at a minimum be able to confirm (by phone or email to DVC) that there is indeed a reservation for x dates with the renters name on it.  They should also be able to call the resort to let them know if they will be arriving late if problems occur on the flight or drive down.


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## Eli Mairs (Nov 30, 2013)

I have been a DVC member almost since the beginning. Now that the kids are grown, I'm not always able to use the points, so I rent them out on Mouseowners.
I book the dates, resort, unit size etc that the renter wants if there is availability.
The price is based on the number of points required, and It is at the lower end.
Almost immediately, I receive an official confirmation from DVC in my name, but indicating that the reservation is for guests, and all their names are listed.
I forward this to the renter, and the renter sends payment within the next couple of weeks.
I've never had any problems. I must say that I'm often surprised at how trusting people can be. I do try to build trust via emails during the booking process, but I don't know if I, myself, would feel comfortable sending money to a stranger.
I've never heard of anyone being scammed on Mouseowners.
Mouseowners does not allow reservations of seven days to be posted, in case they are RCI exchanges.


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## bnoble (Nov 30, 2013)

> no free (or below MF costs for) onsite DISNEY vacations.


There can be---exchanging in with a low-cost RCI trader.  I have a very "average" performing resort in terms of MF/TPU, and even with DVC's high TPU costs, exchange fee, and the $95 extortion fee, I'm saving several hundreds of dollars vs. what an owner would pay in Dues for an upcoming VWL stay.



> AND if you MUST always be onsite --- buy DVC points and plan.


We've taken a slightly different approach.  For any given vacation where we might go to WDW, we come up with a couple of options: A DVC stay for a WDW vacation, *or* some other vacation somewhere else. If the DVC match doesn't come through, we plan to book the alternative instead.

So far, DVC has always come through, though there have been some times where we've had to be patient and a little bit flexible on resort choice or specific check-in day.  But, there are plenty of other great vacations out there beyond the Mouse's walls.



> it seems like someone who has been added to the reservation and is authorized to check in should at a minimum be able to confirm (by phone or email to DVC) that there is indeed a reservation for x dates with the renters name on it.


This used to be policy, but several years ago DVC changed their rules so that only the owner of record can call Member Services about any particular points booking.  Most insiders believe this was done to make it harder for "landlords" to rent in competition with Disney's own rental arm.  Now, the only situation in which someone can call Member Services about a reservation that they don't "own" is if they are an RCI inbound.

Edited to add: once you have the Disney reservation number, you can also confirm that the booking exists via their online tool.  You don't need the member's account for that.  I forget how that works exactly, but I just confirmed an exchange the other day; when I get the Disney number next week, I'll come back and post the details.



> They should also be able to call the resort to let them know if they will be arriving late if problems occur on the flight or drive down.


This you can do; this is a call to the individual resort itself (technically, it routes to Disney's main phone bank) not Member Services.



> I must say that I'm often surprised at how trusting people can be.


Most people are honest, and most of these transactions go off without a hitch.


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## rickandcindy23 (Nov 30, 2013)

I love the way people are talking around the really huge elephant in the room!  The person "renting" this unit to Sarah is probably an RCI member, and they are renting an RCI exchange into a Disney resort.   They are likely making a crapload of money on it, too.  

As Brian stated, absolutely anyone can get an RCI exchange into Disney.  All you need is a good trader, and you enter an ongoing search, then get a match.  It's not rocket science, just a little research required into what is going to give you the magic number of points for DVC's exchanges.  60 is the absolute most any DVC week is going to be.  I own a few weeks that get 76 points (used to get 101), for $720 in MF's.  

RCI indeed does not get you the confirmation immediately, that would be true.  You get an email with a name on it, but it doesn't come with a DVC reservation number.  You have to call Disney to get that number, which DVC looks up via name only.  RCI numbers mean nothing to Disney.  It takes weeks and weeks for RCI to get the confirmation to Disney.  I think this is on purpose. Disney has so many complaints (like from me) from owners who are angry about the rentals on eBay, obviously exchanges because of the $95 fee.  

If you are one of those who rent DVC exchanges for a profit, beware that Disney is getting hundreds of complaints per week about it.  I know this because I heard it from a DVC Cast Member via a phone call.  She said the higher ups at DVC are very upset about the rentals of RCI exchanges, which they didn't have nearly the issue while DVC was with II.  My vote is to go back to II, but DVC doesn't allow us to vote.


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## sarahtug (Nov 30, 2013)

Not sure why you're being so hostile, here, Linda.  What am I saying that is annoying you so?  This is all a learning process for me.  Yes I am trying to get the best deal I can while minimizing risk.  What is the sin in that?  I am also sharing information about a scammer that is very real and very good at what he does.  In fact, he is already back on TUG trying to lure in other suckers.  Fortunately, the TUG administrator and I both had an eye out for him and he put a hold on his ad before someone else got scammed.


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## sarahtug (Nov 30, 2013)

And by the way, I am not concerned at the "happiness lost by not scoring a CHEAP Disney vacation".  Perhaps I am a little more altruistic and have genuine concern for others getting scammed by this guy.  I also don't want to see Paypal raise fees and change their dispute policy because nobody is willing to put in the time and effort to go after the bad guys.  Because the good guys will eventually lose in the end, with higher fees, less purchase protection, etc.


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## bnoble (Nov 30, 2013)

> The person "renting" this unit to Sarah is probably an RCI member, and they are renting an RCI exchange into a Disney resort.


No, the person "renting" the unit never had it to begin with (or canceled it after it was booked).  It was a scam.


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## sarahtug (Nov 30, 2013)

Exactly.  He doesn't have any units, anywhere.  

Here is the gist of his scam. He has it set up so that the one who really gets ripped off in the end is actually Paypal, not the buyer.  He has the buyer send the money to his “property accountant” who handles all his payment transactions.  He gets the money through paypal, then suddenly sides with the buyer claiming his paypal person (property accountant) actually took the money.  Then he stays in contact with the buyer claiming he is trying his best to get paypal to refund the buyer's money (which he knows Paypal will eventually do).  He comes out looking like one of the "good guys" in the whole deal and so the buyer never reports him.  It is brilliant, really.  And the fact that he "sells" Disney rooms is even better because he knows potential buyers can't verify ahead of time that his "owner" is truly a Disney owner/member or not.


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## rickandcindy23 (Nov 30, 2013)

Yeah, Linda has a habit of capitalizing some words, which appear to be yelling, but it's really not meant that way.  I don't think she realizes how it comes across.  The words she used seemed a bit harsh, but that is not the Linda I know and love. 

I do highly recommend checking to see what week or points you can buy for exchange purposes, so you can get a week at a Disney resort for under $1,000, and yes, even a 2 bedroom at BLT is possible.  

If I were to do it all over again, I would buy 40K WorldMark points on eBay (maintenance fees are cheaper per point), and I would use them solely for Disney vacations.  So about $8,000 and $2,200 in MF's buys you 4 two bedrooms weeks at Disney, and not just once--it's for years and years you can get those four exchanges.  Oh, there is the $199 exchange fee, plus there is the $95.  So $795 in exchange fees, $380 in DVC fees, and $2,200 in MF's added together and divided by four weeks of vacation (2 bedroom units), $843.75 per 2 bedroom at Disney.  Oh, well that doesn't include the 5-year membership to RCI, which is $349, and well worth it.  

Told you he could be making a lot of money on exchanges.


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## vacationhopeful (Nov 30, 2013)

sarahtug said:


> Not sure why you're being so hostile, here, Linda.  What am I saying that is annoying you so?  This is all a learning process for me.  Yes I am trying to get the best deal I can while minimizing risk.  What is the sin in that?  I am also sharing information about a scammer that is very real and very good at what he does.  In fact, he is already back on TUG trying to lure in other suckers.  Fortunately, the TUG administrator and I both had an eye out for him and he put a hold on his ad before someone else got scammed.



It is all in your telling of the story ---- 
Getting scammed and stating the $2,000+ amount, but waiting 10 hours to post that YOU did get your money back ... is called "annoying" to me. 

Wanting to "minimizing risk" but whining that a VERY WELL VETTED vendor has a higher markup than the scammer (almost 3 fold). And then when TUG member bnoble explains the different seasons and views to you, you don't seem the least bit interested.

I was NOT the only poster who suggested you buy into the DVC ownership - to lessen your risk factor.


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## vacationhopeful (Nov 30, 2013)

sarahtug said:


> ...Here is the gist of his scam. He has it set up so that the one who really gets ripped off in the end is actually Paypal, not the buyer.  He has the buyer send the money to his “property accountant” who handles all his payment transactions.  He gets the money through paypal, then suddenly sides with the buyer claiming his paypal person (property accountant) actually took the money.  Then he stays in contact with the buyer claiming he is trying his best to get paypal to refund the buyer's money (which he knows Paypal will eventually do).  He comes out looking like one of the "good guys" in the whole deal and so the buyer never reports him.  It is brilliant, really.  And the fact that he "sells" Disney rooms is even better because he knows potential buyers can't verify ahead of time that his "owner" is truly a Disney owner/member or not.



More of the story - explained better to help prevent others from becoming a victim. Finally. Could have stated this more completely in POST #15.


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## sarahtug (Nov 30, 2013)

Geez, Linda.  I don't spend 24 hours a day watching the TUG blog.  I am so sorry.  I didn't purposely wait 10 hours to let you know I got my money back.  I have a life.  You need to get one.


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## sarahtug (Nov 30, 2013)

There is no whining coming from me.  I was careless and I got burned.  Period.  I was not willing to pay over $6000 for a week at a Disney resort through David's rentals.  That is not whining.  That is a decision based on value/worth.  It's not worth $6000 to me.  We have had many wonderful vacations to Orlando and stayed at some great properties (non-Disney) at some great prices.  I saw this guy's (scammer's) ad and thought I'd take a shot at staying on Disney property for what seemed like a very reasonable price.  Keep in mind I'm used to paying anywhere from $700 - $1000 for a 2BR at places like Marriott's Cypress Harbour, Marriott's Harbour Lake, HGVC-Seaworld or International Drive, Sheraton Vistana Villages.  I hadn't researched Disney prices prior to seeing his ad, just saw that this particular one wasn't too far off from what we normally spent.  So I gave it a shot.  Now, after learning much much more about Disney, and points, and seasons, and all the rest, I realize that it's not a realistic price.

Forgive me now, if I sign off and don't reply for several hours.  I have things to do, Linda.


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## JimMIA (Nov 30, 2013)

tschwa2 said:


> Although no one but you should be able to make any changes to a reservation, it seems like someone who has been added to the reservation and is authorized to check in should at a minimum be able to confirm (by phone or email to DVC) that there is indeed a reservation for x dates with the renters name on it.


As others have said, you can do that via Disney's regular online system -- just not through DVC. DVC Member Services (paid for by the MFs of DVC owners) serves the needs of the members.  And if you are doing a _legitimate_ RCI exchange, you can also call DVC MS.





> They should also be able to call the resort to let them know if they will be arriving late if problems occur on the flight or drive down.


They can do that.  The reservation is usually in the resort's system a week or so before arrival.  The renter just has to be savvy enough with things Disney to get the correct resort phone number and to know the difference between the resort front desk and the call center.


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## dickyb2349 (Dec 5, 2013)

I rent Disney points/reservations all the time. I do not even ask the rentor to do anything uptill I have sent them a copy of the reservation in their names. The reservation letter must be sent to the owner, they do not send it to the rentor. When I rent, I ask for a 25% deposit if more than 60 days before reservation date. I ask the rentor to send that once they receive the reservation letter that I send to them when i receive it from Disney. There are also ways for the rentor to look online to see the reservations (I don't remember the url now but somebody else can provide that to you). I also ask for full payment at the 60 days before reservation date timeframe. This provides me with safety in not getting stuck with the points.
But be careful. Even if a reservation is made in your name by the owner and the reservation letter is sent to you, the owner can cancel that reservation at any time, even the day before the reservation. Try to work with people who have rented before and have a track record of rentals.


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## tomandrobin (Dec 9, 2013)

There is three ways a renter can verify if a DVC owner has made a reservation and that the rental is not an exchange or scam. 


Three-way call when making the reservation. This allows the renter to hear the reservation being made and get the confirmation number. 
DVC owner to forward the confirmation email of the reservation. That email will contain a link to a Disney site with all the details of the reservation.
Get the confirmation number from the DVC owner and go to Disney site and  input the confirmation. The reservation will come up with all your information.

Verifying a reservation does not avoid being scammed, but will go along way to avoid one. 

I am a long time renter of points and go out of my way to make my renters comfortable with the transaction. 

A price to good to be true is more then likely a scam or an exchange renter.


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## tomandrobin (Dec 9, 2013)

Eli Mairs said:


> I've never heard of anyone being scammed on Mouseowners.



Yes, there have been people scammed on MouseOwners. Its a rare occurrence, but it does happen.....at best, once a year since the recession. In almost every case, it was a deal that was too good to be true. 

If everyone is renting rooms for $3500 why would someone rent that same room for $2000?


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