# VIP on the cheap?  looks like it might be  possible



## ronparise (Mar 26, 2014)

I was cold called by yet another Wyndham Corporate sales person recently and I gave her the same challenge that I have given every other Wyndham salesperson Ive met in the last several years....and that is: I want to go from where I am to Platinum VIP as cheaply as possible. 

Usually they arent  cheap enough for me.

This time it was different

Todays big news  is that that affiliate points contracts bought on the secondary market, or at least some of them will count toward VIP.,  As a side note here, another owner told me he got to Platinum with affiliates  only. He used el Cid contracts. I am in the process of testing this with a recent el Cid purchase,  I thought el Cid was an exception, but maybe not, maybe its all affiliates. 

Also there are  mistakes made sometimes

Turns out that there are three contracts in my account that are not coded as resales, Two are what I think are mistakes and one affiliate,  105000 points at Tamerack, 84000 points at Royal Vacation Suites and 105000 points at Fairfield Harbor so I have a 294000 point head start toward VIP and Im buying another Royal Vacations Suites 115000 point contract that we are betting (because its an affiliate and because its like the one I already own ), will count toward VIP. If it does Ill have a Silver VIP account

The second piece of good news I got today is that the 2 weeks at Angel Fire Cabinshares I bought  with the plan to PIC them into VIP points can be PICed.   I was told a year ago that they couldnt be.   Today I learned that Cabinshares Phase I cant be PICed (its the Affiliate) but phase II can be.  This is big news and answers a question asked here on TUG on a fairly regular basis. Angel Fire Cabinshares Phase II are 3 bedrooms, red weeks  at 254000 points each and the bonus is that mf is under $500/wk which translates to under $3/1000 points)

To PIC a week you have to buy a new contract of at least 49000 points. I need two so 98000

If you are still with me and still counting  thats 105+84+105+115+254+254+98= 1,022,000 points and Platinum VIP

The 4 points contracts have really high mf,  but the mf on the PIC points is very low, My average mf on the million points will be uner $5/1000

 98000 new points will cost in the neighborhood of $15-$20,000  not cheap but not bad for a Platinum ownership either,  

Ill wait for my new affiliate purchases to settle to see if this works the way she said it will,,, and Ill play with the numbers a bit, to be sure I can justify the purchase, before spending the big bucks


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## lcml11 (Mar 26, 2014)

ronparise said:


> I was cold called by yet another Wyndham Corporate sales person recently and I gave her the same challenge that I have given every other Wyndham salesperson Ive met in the last several years....and that is: I want to go from where I am to Platinum VIP as cheaply as possible.
> 
> Usually they arent  cheap enough for me.
> 
> ...



Congratulations.  You are now have a bunch of points to use as Club Wyndham Pass.


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## ronparise (Mar 27, 2014)

lcml11 said:


> Congratulations.  You are now have a bunch of points to use as Club Wyndham Pass.




why would I do that. Club Pass doesnt allow rentals, and I doubt that there will be anything available that I want at 9 months anyway

If I want more reservations in Worldmark resorts Ill buy more Worldmark Credits

If I do take this account to Platinum, it will be for the Guest Confirms and the discounts available to Platinum members, Club Pass is not part of the equation


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## Bigrob (Mar 27, 2014)

ronparise said:


> The second piece of good news I got today is that the 2 weeks at Angel Fire Cabinshares I bought  with the plan to PIC them into VIP points can be PICed.   I was told a year ago that they couldnt be.   Today I learned that Cabinshares Phase I cant be PICed (its the Affiliate) but phase II can be.  This is big news and answers a question asked here on TUG on a fairly regular basis. Angel Fire Cabinshares Phase II are 3 bedrooms, red weeks  at 254000 points each and the bonus is that mf is under $500/wk which translates to under $3/1000 points)



That is good news! How easy is it to tell which phase the Angel Fire units are in?  Just curious because, for example, most ebay listings for Ocean Boulevard don't list which tower or phase they're in, but they each have slightly different MF rates. IIRC, you've been getting good mileage out of those units anyway trading them for Worldmark credits that get converted to Mardi Gras reservations... will you get better mileage out of them as Wyndham points or will you keep using them as you have been and just use the PICs to get another platinum account?


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## ronparise (Mar 27, 2014)

Bigrob said:


> That is good news! How easy is it to tell which phase the Angel Fire units are in?  Just curious because, for example, most ebay listings for Ocean Boulevard don't list which tower or phase they're in, but they each have slightly different MF rates. IIRC, you've been getting good mileage out of those units anyway trading them for Worldmark credits that get converted to Mardi Gras reservations... will you get better mileage out of them as Wyndham points or will you keep using them as you have been and just use the PICs to get another platinum account?



assuming I pony up the money to do this Ill probably do both for a while, but I just bought another 20000 WM credits. and there are only so many suites at Avenue Plaza... I cant take them all, and the opportunity to make Wyn reservations with $3/1000 points  and then cancel and rebook may be tough to pass up

I cant tell which phase I own at Angel Fire from my deed or my mf bills. It was in the ebay ad when I bought it, and I think I remember Phase II, but Im not sure...so for now Im believing the salesman....Ill have to call the resort  later this week

What I may end up doing though is, instead of PICing, just buy more affiliate points contracts. If Im right and they all count toward VIP, it will take longer, but it will be done with no new purchases..  Ill know more when the three contracts I have in transfer,  settle,  That should bring me to Silver in a few months... The problem is that it may take years to get enough additional contracts to get to Platinum


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## am1 (Mar 27, 2014)

ronparise said:


> What I may end up doing though is, instead of PICing, just buy more affiliate points contracts. If Im right and they all count toward VIP, it will take longer, but it will be done with no new purchases..  Ill know more when the three contracts I have in transfer,  settle,  That should bring me to Silver in a few months... The problem is that it may take years to get enough additional contracts to get to Platinum



Especially now as others will hunting for them as well.


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## lcml11 (Mar 27, 2014)

ronparise said:


> ... What I may end up doing though is, instead of PICing, just buy more affiliate points contracts. If Im right and they all count toward VIP, it will take longer, but it will be done with no new purchases..  Ill know more when the three contracts I have in transfer,  settle,  That should bring me to Silver in a few months... The problem is that it may take years to get enough additional contracts to get to Platinum



I understand from Wyndham Sales, pretty much since I have been with Wyndham, that Wyndham has a list that is given to sales of Resorts/units they want back.

I would not assume it is all affiliate points contracts.  My guess if this is going on to any large degree it would be involving good Resorts in good locations.


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## A.Win (Mar 27, 2014)

Congratulations on your discoveries and thanks for sharing them with us. You consistently share the best information with everyone here. That seems to be a very low cost, efficient way to become Platinum. I would do it. If I had millions of points to go with it, I wouldn't even think twice.

With all your points (22 million?), you must be renting nearly 100 weeks per year. And your MFs are over $100K. Have you financially compared what you are doing now vs. buying a couple rental condos? For example, would you be more or less profitable if you simply bought 2 or 3 condos in NOLA and rented them full time?


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## ronparise (Mar 27, 2014)

am1 said:


> Especially now as others will hunting for them as well.



I agree, but I have get first right of refusal with one PCC, so Ill see them before they go to Ebay


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## ronparise (Mar 27, 2014)

lcml11 said:


> I understand from Wyndham Sales, pretty much since I have been with Wyndham, that Wyndham has a list that is given to sales of Resorts/units they want back.
> 
> I would not assume it is all affiliate points contracts.  My guess if this is going on to any large degree it would be involving good Resorts in good locations.



This is probably true, but it has nothing to do with my post. Im not a seller at this point, Im a buyer, ..  The affiliates I own or plan to buy are already points contracts....

You are right about one thing, although I dont think you realize it...Its not only affiliates bought on the resale marked that surprised me as being VIP eligible points, but also some regular contracts as well .. I have several contracts that I bought on ebay that turned out to be VIP...in fact my very first purchase (3 converted fixed weeks; 385000 points) was an ebay sale that made me Silver VIP


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## csxjohn (Mar 27, 2014)

ronparise said:


> I agree, but I have get first right of refusal with one PCC, so Ill see them before they go to Ebay



Don't forget to keep an eye out for a 2br where I own now.


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## tschwa2 (Mar 27, 2014)

Ron, I thought you made gold level or even platinum level months and months ago through some high flying dealing and wheeling (loopholes) that are no longer available.  Is this for alternate accounts deeded differently or would this be the first opportunity you found in the last 3 years?

Tracey


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## ronparise (Mar 27, 2014)

A.Win said:


> Congratulations on your discoveries and thanks for sharing them with us. You consistently share the best information with everyone here. That seems to be a very low cost, efficient way to become Platinum. I would do it. If I had millions of points to go with it, I wouldn't even think twice.
> 
> With all your points (22 million?), you must be renting nearly 100 weeks per year. And your MFs are over $100K. Have you financially compared what you are doing now vs. buying a couple rental condos? For example, would you be more or less profitable if you simply bought 2 or 3 condos in NOLA and rented them full time?



Im a real estate agent in SW Florida and am quite familiar with the vacation rental market here (Ft Myers, Ft Myers Beach  Sanibel Island etc)  Here our market is the 3 months of the winter.  Folks that buy condos to rent here, make their money in the winter, but the place sits vacant the rest of the year.  From what I see, (and I see a lot) folks are lucky to break even, let alone make a return on their substantial investment

With a points based timeshare, I dont have to deal with the off season. I make all my reservations for the best times, or to satisfy a customers need. ie I have no down time, and no vacant weeks.  ..

Heres an example Using your 100 weeks estimate  that equates to  2 full ownership condos. If I owned them in New Orleans, I could have 2 mardi Gras reservations, 2 Jazz Festival Reservations  2 Essence fest reservations and 2 halloween reservations and 2 Sugar bowl reservations.  With my points, I can make 200 weekend reservations and do 40 each for the 5 events I listed. Less work for me and a whole lot more money.

The other consideration is invested capital.  buying 2 rental condos  as well located as the Wyndham timeshares in New Orleans would tie up something like $500,000 to a $1,000,000  that I dont have, or a big loan that I cant get. My 100 timeshare weeks cost me next to nothing to start (my first deal was 385000 points for a dollar). and Ive funded all my growth out of operations. My start with rentals was a fixed week that I got for free, and the current years fees were paid and there was an included Mardi Gras reservation that I rented for $1000.  Thats what kick-started my rental business.  I never could have done it with a big mortgage

The last consideration was this... I used to own over 100 rental houses and apartments. You should know pipes never freeze, and toilets never clog up except at 3 in the morning. That work prepared me for what Im doing now, but I never want to go back to a regular rental real estate business.

So to answer your question...Have I considered whole ownership condos?...sure, in my dreams, but they were nightmares.


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## ronparise (Mar 27, 2014)

tschwa2 said:


> Ron, I thought you made gold level or even platinum level months and months ago through some high flying dealing and wheeling (loopholes) that are no longer available.  Is this for alternate accounts deeded differently or would this be the first opportunity you found in the last 3 years?
> 
> Tracey



I have 3 accounts,and at the rate Im going, soon to be 4 if  dont  start doing some selling)

2 of my accounts are platinum, and I got there with a little luck and a little help from a couple of  Tuggers, both named Jim.  and a little money provised by the folks that rent from me.  My  3rd account is not Platinum and its this 3rd account that is my current interest. and yes,  the loophole I exploited is nearly closed, or at least its so expensive now, it may not be worth doing.


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## comicbookman (Mar 27, 2014)

Who would I call to find out which of my contracts are coded as resale and which aren't?  While I am already at platinum, it would which accounts I might pick if I were to sell any in the future.


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## Whoozr (Mar 27, 2014)

How would you know if your contracts were incorrectly coded without asking a Wyndham employee?  I wouldn't want to raise any red flags hoping that someone has made a mistake along the way.


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## comicbookman (Mar 27, 2014)

Whoozr said:


> How would you know if your contracts were incorrectly coded without asking a Wyndham employee?  I wouldn't want to raise any red flags hoping that someone has made a mistake along the way.



I have enough "properly" coded contracts to not worry, but it could be useful to know how the others are coded.


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## ronparise (Mar 27, 2014)

Whoozr said:


> How would you know if your contracts were incorrectly coded without asking a Wyndham employee?  I wouldn't want to raise any red flags hoping that someone has made a mistake along the way.



Im not so sure it makes a difference if your account is, like mine, not VIP, what difference does it make?  So maybe you have 300000 points that are VIP eligible today and they take that status away, you are still not a VIP.

My approach has been to challenge the salesman and let them find the loopholes or exceptions

In any case I just called owner care and asked them to look at one of the contracts that the salesman told me was VIP eligible. The owner care person said it was clearly coded as a "re purchase"

So either the salesman knows something owner care does not, or she is lying just to make the sale

I think I might take back my answer to Lcml11.  Perhaps Wyndham wants these contracts back and will give me something else that is VIP eligible. At this point who knows, My test will be to wait for another 2 affiliates  Im buying to settle. If they give me Silver VIP Ill know Im onto something


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## pacodemountainside (Mar 27, 2014)

comicbookman said:


> I have enough "properly" coded contracts to not worry, but it could be useful to know how the others are coded.



If you are up to sales pitch, easy enough. The  sales person  pulls  your dossier(ownership)  and there  is  as sheet for  each ownership.  This is what they  use to find problems with your ownership that they will  fix  for a  commission.

On the right side  about 2 inches down  are  boxes to check  if resale..

Then at bottom  is  a comments line that will   say something like resale  and not eligible  for VIP credit!


Errors  definitely have been made, but Wyndham   has the right to correct  any time they find.  Also, they have a contract  audit Department   as  sales people  have been known to  make  "mistakes".


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## comicbookman (Mar 27, 2014)

I would be willing to sit through a sales weasel presentation to get the information, but I am no longer eligible for them.  Makes getting a parking pass quicker though.


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## lcml11 (Mar 27, 2014)

comicbookman said:


> I have enough "properly" coded contracts to not worry, but it could be useful to know how the others are coded.



A Sales Rep will normally run the computer sheets for each timeshare you own during the meeting.  Just ask and get a copy that way.  It has three columns on the printout.  In the third column is a re-sale code.  It needs to be "N" to be be qualified developer points.

By the way, you can look at the top of the print out and if it is a "Old Fairfied Owner" contract you will see Fairfield Resorts, Inc. as the header.  That is how the sales rep knows this.

I am not sure, however, with the various grandfathering actions Wyndham has taken over the years, I think the coding issue being discussed occurs in some of the very early Fairfield contracts at some resorts.  They maybe have a grandfather status.  I do not believe these are mistakes in coding.


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## csxjohn (Mar 27, 2014)

comicbookman said:


> I would be willing to sit through a sales weasel presentation to get the information, but I am no longer eligible for them.  Makes getting a parking pass quicker though.



Ron has volunteered to go with the understanding that he won't be getting a gift.  I'm sure you could do the same.


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## Whoozr (Mar 27, 2014)

lcml11 said:


> A Sales Rep will normally run the computer sheets for each timeshare you own during the meeting.  Just ask and get a copy that way.  It has three columns on the printout.  In the third column is a re-sale code.  It needs to be "N" to be be qualified developer points.
> 
> By the way, you can look at the top of the print out and if it a "Old Fairfied Owner" contract you will see Fairfield Resorts, Inc. as the header.  That is how the sales rep knows this.



I went to three owner's updates last year at Kingsgate and each time I saw the paperwork but they weren't willing to part with anything.  I don't know if one of the salesman was new but I had to tell him that my points were resale.


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## comicbookman (Mar 27, 2014)

csxjohn said:


> Ron has volunteered to go with the understanding that he won't be getting a gift.  I'm sure you could do the same.



I have tried, but so far no go.


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## lcml11 (Mar 27, 2014)

Whoozr said:


> I went to three owner's updates last year at Kingsgate and each time I saw the paperwork but they weren't willing to part with anything.  I don't know if one of the salesman was new but I had to tell him that my points were resale.



Probably just did not read the sheet.  They do do that a lot if they do not think you are a viable buyer or unless thay are trying to make a point off of the sheet.  Or, they already know that they were willing to take some or all of them back for a new sale.


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## lcml11 (Mar 27, 2014)

comicbookman said:


> I have tried, but so far no go.



The trick is being nice and enter the final negotiation stage.  If they give a good enough deal take it if not do not finalize the discussion/contract.  Never tried it, but Owner's care should be able to tell you what the code is now that you can describe the document they are looking for.  I do not get the feeling that Wyndham considers this confidential information.

Do not give up information more than you need to.  Ask two questions.  What is the document showing as the sales date and what is the re-sale code.


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## Whoozr (Mar 27, 2014)

lcml11 said:


> Probably just did not read the sheet.  They do do that a lot if they do not think you are a viable buyer or unless thay are trying to make a point off of the sheet.  Or, they already know that they were willing to take some or all of them back for a new sale.



I think they knew I was a viable buyer because I also have a developer purchase from 2012 and they tried very hard to sell me something because they had two additional salesman come work on me.  The third time I went, the woman new 30 seconds into the conversation that I wasn't going to purchase anything.  I told her I was waiting for a transfer to be completed and she said we can't compete with resale and sent me on my way with my $100 American Express card.  It's a game now for me, I even wave at the salesmen that I have been paired with in the past.

Getting back to the subject, I really like the information that Ron has presented to maybe help others reach Platinum VIP status.  Way too many points for me but I think it's really good information.


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## lcml11 (Mar 27, 2014)

The salesperson that sold you one probably will remember what you look like.  Ask him since you bought one from him.  Do not forget to mention that when you make the request.


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## pacodemountainside (Mar 27, 2014)

comicbookman said:


> I would be willing to sit through a sales weasel presentation to get the information, but I am no longer eligible for them.  Makes getting a parking pass quicker though.




Sneak in through the back door. Wyndham  has    body snatching   booths here  and there:

Branson -Grocery store  next to WalMart

Vegas-Harrah's

Smoky Mountain -WalMart  about a mile  down road

They generally offer  better bribes   and  have  spouse or  whoever is  with you over 21 sign up. Then at pitch  just let  slip out you own and they will pull your dossier.

This is tongue in cheek as I realize most people   equate  sales pitches with  the plague  or root canal.


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## Whoozr (Mar 27, 2014)

lcml11 said:


> The salesperson that sold you one probably will remember what you look like.  Ask him since you bought one from him.  Do not forget to mention that when you make the request.



I purchase at Bonnet Creek so I know there's no way that person would remember me but they do know my face at Governor's Green in Williamsburg. I had three update meeting in less than 4 months, two were within 30 days.  I told the guy making the reservation this same information and they still wanted to sign me up.  Hopefully in May, they won't even ask me to attend.


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## Whoozr (Mar 27, 2014)

pacodemountainside said:


> Sneak in through the back door. Wyndham  has    body snatching   booths here  and there:
> 
> Branson -Grocery store  next to WalMart
> 
> ...



Good information, I'm going to the Smokey Mountains next month and I'm taking my sister so I guess we will go to Walmart and see what bribes we can get.


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## lcml11 (Mar 27, 2014)

Whoozr said:


> Good information, I'm going to the Smokey Mountains next month and I'm taking my sister so I guess we will go to Walmart and see what bribes we can get.



Do not under any circumstances bring up the word re-sale.  The sales people apparently get cold feet.  Besides, it messes up their sales pitch.  If you do that then they can not find the re-sale problem than go into a routine that they will have to talk to the sales manager to see it can be worked out.  Focus on getting their best re-sale price to show you are serious.  If they come up with something, maybe it would be worth considering.  One South Carolina Resort (Not Myrtle Beach) would go as low as $5,000 at one point.  Passed on that one.


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## comicbookman (Mar 27, 2014)

pacodemountainside said:


> Sneak in through the back door. Wyndham  has    body snatching   booths here  and there:
> 
> Branson -Grocery store  next to WalMart
> 
> ...



And AC at Trump Taj Mahal.  Good idea.  Although we did have one arranged in Williamsburg last year which they called to cancel 30 minutes before. (claimed they were overbooked)  we had to make other breakfast plans.


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## lcml11 (Mar 27, 2014)

comicbookman said:


> And AC at Trump Taj Mahal.  Good idea.  Although we did have one arranged in Williamsburg last year which they called to cancel 30 minutes before. (claimed they were overbooked)  we had to make other breakfast plans.



Moral of the story:  do not answer the phone or answer the door once the appointment is made.


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## comicbookman (Mar 27, 2014)

lcml11 said:


> Moral of the story:  do not answer the phone or answer the door once the appointment is made.



Not a bad moral, although I fully expect they would have just turned us away at the desk had we shown up, which would have been even more annoying.


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## jules54 (Mar 28, 2014)

Jeez Ron are you the buyer that one of the resale guys is turning over all the El Cid contracts to? No wonder I can't find any larger contracts to purchase. I was afraid you were the player involved last year when I was purchasing trying to hit million point level Wyndham does take the El Cid contract back and does not charge the owner anything to do so. I just hate to see that happen since of course most were bought top dollar from the developer before 2005. Could you just let me buy one El Cid contract for 154,000 sometime in the next couple of years that expires around 2021.
Since I am asking for favors would you also cancel a couple of La Belle reservations for the second Jazz Fest weekend I need one of those also
Seriously thanks for all your posts and advice you have given timeshare owners everywhere. I am team Ron all the way


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## GregT (Mar 28, 2014)

Ron,

Interesting strategy and thanks for posting it.  I will track this with interest and hope that it works out for you.

I'd not appreciated how valuable Platinum is to Wyndham owners -- is it just the mega-renters that like it, or is it useful for the traditional owner too?

Best,

Greg


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## vacationhopeful (Mar 28, 2014)

GregT said:


> Ron,
> 
> Interesting strategy and thanks for posting it.  I will track this with interest and hope that it works out for you.
> 
> ...



Not Ron, but my take on Platinum is, if you own a Million Plus points and do not only book 3 or 4 bedroom units during PRIME season, it can be very helpful when taking LONG or multiple vacations or have a large group who uses your ownership.

For example, a grandparent with 3 adult children & their families, who travel 5+ times a year, would burn thru all points with no problem. Grandparents use 3+ weeks for just themselves (420K @ 140K per week), 3 weeks where they host the an extended family member (609K @ 203K per week) and 1 large multiple grouping (812K for 4 units for 1 week). The discount of 50% and unit upgrade MUST be used to do almost all this travel (not that all this would happen in one year or some of the stays would all be in PRIME full week time).


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## lcml11 (Mar 28, 2014)

jules54 said:


> Jeez Ron are you the buyer that one of the resale guys is turning over all the El Cid contracts to? No wonder I can't find any larger contracts to purchase. I was afraid you were the player involved last year when I was purchasing trying to hit million point level Wyndham does take the El Cid contract back and does not charge the owner anything to do so. I just hate to see that happen since of course most were bought top dollar from the developer before 2005. Could you just let me buy one El Cid contract for 154,000 sometime in the next couple of years that expires around 2021.
> Since I am asking for favors would you also cancel a couple of La Belle reservations for the second Jazz Fest weekend I need one of those also
> Seriously thanks for all your posts and advice you have given timeshare owners everywhere. I am team Ron all the way



Wish you luck on finding a El Sid contract.  Suggest contacting the HOA(s) directly, sometimes they will give a heck of a deal.

Do not know if it is still there, but there was a 2nd weekend available through Market Place for a decent rental rate.


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## Sandy VDH (Mar 28, 2014)

I am a VIP platinum owner.  With a small package just over 1M, but I never turn in my PIC contracts so I actually use 727K a year.

I did manage to get into VIP relatively cheaply with a combination of resales and PIC weeks along with an equity trade (that got me out of paying a huge Special Assessment because of Hurricane Wilma Damage) and an additional small developer purchase of 160K.   This was done about 7 or so years ago.  Before they changed the resale option and started adding the classification of how ownership was obtained.  So at that point I was grandfathered in, as I did get them to write in the contract the VIP Platinum was to be included in the deal.  They did try to take my VIP away when they went through the clean up a few years ago, but I was able to prove that my VIP status was indeed written in my contract. So I got my VIP reinstated.

I track my actual points used vs my value obtained (as if I had to used full points required to make the booking).  I routinely get about 2.5M value for my .727M I own.  That is between 50% off booking and free upgrades.   

I may book 1 or 2 units at full point values.  I likely book the rest at 60 day mark with 50% off, usually with free upgrade in about 70% of the bookings. 

If I was a non VIP owner there were limited point discounts offers available at the resorts I was traveling to.  So I would have to guess that I would receive little discounts as an average owner.

So as a non-Mega renter, I still think I have gotten value for my VIP status.  Even though I did buy a small package directly with Wyndham.  I routinely get double and many times triple the value of the points that I own.  

I do rent units, but it is mainly family and friends, through word of mouth.  I don't advertise or make a business of it, like Ron does.  I do cover all my costs over the year, and even manage to take a vacation myself at Wyndham with likely most all of my annual costs covered.

So I like my VIP for the discounts, the unlimited transactions and housekeeping.  I also get enough Guest Certificates that I always have extra left that just expire at the end of the year.  I try to use as many for next year bookings right at the end of the year.  But I have never run out since they started limiting them and jacking up the rates for them.


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## ronparise (Mar 28, 2014)

jules54 said:


> Jeez Ron are you the buyer that one of the resale guys is turning over all the El Cid contracts to? No wonder I can't find any larger contracts to purchase. I was afraid you were the player involved last year when I was purchasing trying to hit million point level Wyndham does take the El Cid contract back and does not charge the owner anything to do so. I just hate to see that happen since of course most were bought top dollar from the developer before 2005. Could you just let me buy one El Cid contract for 154,000 sometime in the next couple of years that expires around 2021.
> Since I am asking for favors would you also cancel a couple of La Belle reservations for the second Jazz Fest weekend I need one of those also
> Seriously thanks for all your posts and advice you have given timeshare owners everywhere. I am team Ron all the way



No and no

I dont have any el Cid yet  one 77000 in transfer)  and I dont have any Jazz fest reservations through Wyndham...I do have one with Worldmark at Avenue Plaza , but thats an odd one that will require a room change (two nights in a studio and one in a one bedroom) 

That el Cid is my test to see if what you say works for me, 

I dont know what you mean when you say "Wyndham is taking these back". Will they trade me something else of equal value that counts toward VIP? or just how does it work?  and more to the point, who do I have to kiss on the butt to make it happen.

Ive passed over el cids in the past because it looks like there are two transfer fees and it ends up costing over $1000 to close one of these. but it would be a cheaper route to vip.  The big question and what Im talking about in this post is do all the affiliates work the same way.  My salesman seems to indicate yes, at least for the Royal Vacation suites I own


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## lcml11 (Mar 28, 2014)

ronparise said:


> No and no
> 
> I dont have any el Cid yet  one 77000 in transfer)  and I dont have any Jazz fest reservations through Wyndham...I do have one with Worldmark at Avenue Plaza , but thats an odd one that will require a room change (two nights in a studio and one in a one bedroom)
> 
> ...



The situation with El Sid has changed over the years.  I did not take a El Sid contract from the estate that was a points based contract because, at the time, even though it was a Wyndham Points contract where the points were usable within the Wyndham System, it could not be reserved through Wyndham because they has gone different ways.  If I went there, I had to book it directly through the resort using a Wyndham legacy unit.  At the time of the parting, the owner at the time elected to stay with Wyndham with the unit involved instead of going with El Sid, she was given an option.

Therefore, with El Sid, check out which of the various ownership options that appear to be there.  It is my understanding that this contract was taken back by either Wyndham or the Resort from the Estate.

http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=31994
http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=105591


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## ronparise (Mar 28, 2014)

GregT said:


> Ron,
> 
> Interesting strategy and thanks for posting it.  I will track this with interest and hope that it works out for you.
> 
> ...



 To answer you question directly, Ill say platinum is  useful and valuable to anyone that has it, or at least it should  be if they  use it for the discounts and guest confirms and upgrades (read Sandi's and Linda's posts again)I

Your  question however is not a good question. There is a lot more to it than "is it useful" You need to add: is it worth the cost for your intended purpose?

Regarding cost: it can range from as much as $150000 if you buy direct from the developer to as little as nothing if you inherit the account.  Its the"in between" that we are talking about here. and even then its personal. What works for one, may not work for others

An example:  I hosted a family gathering in Las Vegas  a while back. and was able to stay in a 3 bedroom at half the one bedroom price (66000  vs 266000 points) so at average mf $365 vs $1463.  a $1000 savings.  Do this enough (1,000,000 points allows for 15 such vacations a year) say one a month. 

So how much will it cost you to get to Platinum? and how hard will you work your ownership?


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## STEVIE (Mar 28, 2014)

Ron,
How did you buy resale that came with VIP status?
Sue


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## lcml11 (Mar 28, 2014)

susgar said:


> Ron,
> How did you buy resale that came with VIP status?
> Sue



Am not Ron, however, if memory serves from multiple threads on this topic:

1.  Some re-sale contracts not coded as re-sale. 

2.  Buy a small points package and PIC in high point value contracts.

3.  By virtue of a will from a elderly person that does not want to pass them on to the heirs.

4.  Be a account manager for someone that does not want to use all or part of the available points (if you use the points yourself, it would be a guest pass and no Resort based VIP things like newspaper)

5.  Variations of the above major areas.

A contract, by itself, that has not been marked as re-sale, more than likely would not have enough points that are VIP countable points to get a VIP level although it probably could be used to trade in in conjunction with a new purchase.

By the way, the line from Wyndham Corporate, as of today, not Wyndham Sales, is re-sale contracts do not have VIP eligible points.


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## Ron2 (Mar 28, 2014)

lcml11 said:


> By the way, the line from Wyndham Corporate, as of today, not Wyndham Sales, is re-sale contracts do not have VIP eligible points.



Nothing new here unless they actually meant that a Platinum owner could not get VIP benefits on the resale contracts that he also owns.


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## ronparise (Mar 28, 2014)

susgar said:


> Ron,
> How did you buy resale that came with VIP status?
> Sue




another tugger gave me this tip and the phone number of a salesman that could make it happen.  and I followed up 

1) certain of the old fixed and floating weeks (not points) are not coded in the Wyndham computers as resale or retail  so when assigned to the Fairshare trust and converted to points the assumption is made that they are not resale

2) you can convert these weeks to points with a new retail purchase

So bought several these weeks that would convert to a high point value, I found the salesman, and with a 63000 point purchase assigned 3 weeks to the trust. 

I already had a Silver account by virtue of my first purchase of 385000 points  I bought on ebay (cost me a dollar plus $750 to close). This was clearly a mistake, or the seller was a dead guy and I got it from an estate.  

So one mistake, and one tugger tip and the willingness to buy several resales, with mf of $4500 a year, with no guarantee that it would work and one knowledgeble salesman with enough clout to get the exception I needed  and $12000 later I was Platinum

Since then I did it again with the same salesman. Now I have a third account that I want to take Platinum. and my salesman doesnt return my calls. and others that work at the same resort tell me that that particular loophole is closed. It can still be done but only with one to one conversions (every week converted requires a new purchase) Im told $35000 to convert 4 and get Platinum

By the way mention this to other salesmen and they will say its impossible to do

So Im trying to find another cheaper path.  This thread is a report on my progress.


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## Bigrob (Mar 28, 2014)

I'll be following this one with interest. Please do post what happens when it transfers in.


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## Bigrob (Mar 28, 2014)

GregT said:


> Ron,
> 
> Interesting strategy and thanks for posting it.  I will track this with interest and hope that it works out for you.
> 
> ...



I'll second what SandyVDH (primarily non-renter) and Ron (Mega-renter) have said. The value is clearly variable depending upon how you use it, and the more points in the account, the more important it becomes. But working the ownership to best advantage takes time and a certain level of risk acceptance (when you have a reservation at risk on the cancel/rebook). 

The big payoff is paying significantly less in MF due to reduced points requirements. A recent personal example was we took a family vacation over Valentines weekend in a 4BR presidential unit at National Harbor for half the price of a 1BR... which at our low MF rates to start with, was about $100 for 2 nights.

And from another thread, I'll indicate that besides the additional guest certs, the biggest impact moving up from other levels of VIP to platinum is stretching the upgrade window out to the full length of the discount window. The extra 15 days makes a huge difference because you can book and upgrade at the same time, rather than book and hope an upgrade becomes available after all the platinum owners have upgraded.


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## lcml11 (Mar 28, 2014)

ronparise said:


> another tugger gave me this tip and the phone number of a salesman that could make it happen.  and I followed up
> 
> 1) certain of the old fixed and floating weeks (not points) are not coded in the Wyndham computers ats resale or retail  so when assigned to the Fairshare trust and converted to points the assumption is made that they are not resale
> 
> ...



Sounds like buying old Fairfied weeks or floating weeks contracts could be a way to significantly reduce the price of VIP.  It is a gamble.


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## ronparise (Mar 28, 2014)

lcml11 said:


> Sounds like buying old Fairfied weeks or floating weeks contracts could be a way to significantly reduce the price of VIP.  It is a gamble.



That's the point of my original thread ie some of the old weeks, bought on the secondary market as points will come to you as VIP eligible points. We already know that some unconverted weeks will convert to VIP points  And we know about PICs

You should know however that Fairfield has nothing to do with it. In fact, although I have had one purchase of Fairfield weeks come to me as VIP, I think that was a mistake. The others that I converted were not Fairfield . And my new salesman says it's the non Wyndham, non Fairfield affiliates that can do the trick.

I don't know,  which is why I posted this. I'm trying to find somebody that's done it and knows

Your obsession with the moniker "old Fairfield owner" is confusing the issue for me


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## Bigrob (Mar 28, 2014)

ronparise said:


> That's the point of my original thread ie some of the old weeks, bought on the secondary market as points will come to you as VIP eligible points. We already know that some unconverted weeks will convert to VIP points  And we know about PICs
> 
> You should know however that Fairfield has nothing to do with it. In fact, although I have had one purchase of Fairfield weeks come to me as VIP, I think that was a mistake. The others that I converted were not Fairfield . And my new salesman says it's the non Wyndham, non Fairfield affiliates that can do the trick.
> 
> ...



I can't say about the non-Wyndham Non-Fairfield affiliates other than that I have a points contract that transferred that way from a converted week from one of the ones you mentioned. It has maintained its status so far. So even though I wasn't the one that did the conversion, it still worked.

In the next couple of months, I'll know more. I just wish the transfer process were faster.


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## lcml11 (Mar 28, 2014)

ronparise said:


> That's the point of my original thread ie some of the old weeks, bought on the secondary market as points will come to you as VIP eligible points. We already know that some unconverted weeks will convert to VIP points  And we know about PICs
> 
> You should know however that Fairfield has nothing to do with it. In fact, although I have had one purchase of Fairfield weeks come to me as VIP, I think that was a mistake. The others that I converted were not Fairfield . And my new salesman says it's the non Wyndham, non Fairfield affiliates that can do the trick.
> 
> ...



Please keep looking, I am aware that it could have been be done with the Old Fairfield units, however, I do not know about the affiliate thing.

If memory serves, there have been a number of older posts on people getting Wyndham timeshares with points that can be used as non-resale.  Most recently, this one was posted.  See post number 1.

"Turns out that there are three contracts in my account that are not coded as resales, Two are what I think are mistakes and one affiliate, 105000 points at Tamerack, 84000 points at Royal Vacation Suites and 105000 points at Fairfield Harbor so I have a 294000 point head start toward VIP and Im buying another Royal Vacations Suites 115000 point contract that we are betting (because its an affiliate and because its like the one I already own ), will count toward VIP. If it does Ill have a Silver VIP account"

One of three appear to have been a affiliate resorts.  That leaves two.

Wyndham stories on the fate of the affiliates with the coming of Club Wyndham Pass are not consistent.  It would be nice for the affiliate owners if the sales story your received is correct.

If memory serves, a number of posters have mention sales people advised them of something to the effect that their existing points, without a new purchase, would only be good in their Home Club/Resort.  If this comes to pass, I am glad to have the Old Fairfield Owner classification.

Just goes to show someone cannot believe everything they hear from a Wyndham Sales rep.


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## massvacationer (Mar 28, 2014)

I had always thought that accounts were designated either resale or retail.

Specifically:
I had thought that an account number beginning with 999 indicates resale.  But are we saying that a "999" account can hold VIP eligible contracts?


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## lcml11 (Mar 28, 2014)

massvacationer said:


> I had always thought that accounts were designated either resale or retail.
> 
> Specifically:
> I had thought that an account number beginning with 999 indicates resale.  But are we saying that a "999" account can hold VIP eligible contracts?



My account is 999 etc.  I have contracts in it that were gotten from my mother and stepfather's estates or bought through Wyndham.  I have not now or ever had a re-sale as defined by Wyndham's Member Directory, or Wyndham for that matter. 

The account designator 999 etc. being just re-sale is a myth.  Some Wyndham people, including Sales People assume a 999 etc. are just re-sale.

From older posts, I understand that VIP accounts 999 etc. or otherwise, can have re-sale contracts in them and that they get the VIP discounts associated with the account, they just do not count towards the VIP level for the account.

The myth was probably started by sales.  They do not do it anymore, but that has been the "problem" with my account.  That they had to take my VIP status away if I did not buy a new contract.


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## ronparise (Mar 28, 2014)

massvacationer said:


> I had always thought that accounts were designated either resale or retail.
> 
> Specifically:
> I had thought that an account number beginning with 999 indicates resale.  But are we saying that a "999" account can hold VIP eligible contracts?



My account is 999xxxx and it started with a resale purchase, and that resale purchase made me VIP  (I know, just a little od and by the way and for Roberts satisfaction it was an "old Fairfield" resort) unfortunately I havent been able to duplicate that lucky break, and I have purchased several of them since) I have also purchased a small udi points contract directly from Wyndham into the same account.....and the 999 account number stayed the same, 

so to your question...yes a 999 account can be VIP


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## lcml11 (Mar 28, 2014)

ronparise said:


> My account is 999xxxx and it started with a resale purchase, and that resale purchase made me VIP  (I know, just a little od and by the way and for Roberts satisfaction it was an "old Fairfield" resort) unfortunately I havent been able to duplicate that lucky break, and I have purchased several of them since) I have also purchased a small udi points contract directly from Wyndham into the same account.....and the 999 account number stayed the same,
> 
> so to your question...yes a 999 account can be VIP



Thank you, I thought all along that you were a Old Fairfield Owner.  Now I am getting greedy, can you confirm that re-sale contracts in that account other than the ones you made reference to, get the account VIP Level discount?


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## ronparise (Mar 28, 2014)

lcml11 said:


> Thank you, I thought all along that you were a Old Fairfield Owner.  Now I am getting greedy, can you confirm that re-sale contracts in that account other than the ones you made reference to, get the account VIP Level discount?



My second Platinum account also started as a 999 account but I made it VIP as discussed earlier in this thread. and yes, all points in both accounts get the VIP discounts and upgrades

Thats not news, Its no different in any other VIPs account....at least for now

And by the way I dont own just any old Fairfirld resort, One of my converted weeks is from the original Fairfield resort,  Fairfield Bay.. ..but I gotta ask...so what?  Those points work just like the points I have from my Pahio deeds, and Equivest deeds and the newer udi's  Again I dont understand your odsession with the older resorts in the system


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## lcml11 (Mar 29, 2014)

ronparise said:


> My second Platinum account also started as a 999 account but I made it VIP as discussed earlier in this thread. and yes, all points in both accounts get the VIP discounts and upgrades
> 
> Thats not news, Its no different in any other VIPs account....at least for now
> 
> And by the way I dont own just any old Fairfirld resort, One of my converted weeks is from the original Fairfield resort,  Fairfield Bay.. ..but I gotta ask...so what?  Those points work just like the points I have from my Pahio deeds, and Equivest deeds and the newer udi's  Again I dont understand your odsession with the older resorts in the system



Your question has been answered directly or indirectly in other threads.  Am very interested in finding out anything possible on the Old Fairfield Resorts.  A number of posters over time have given reports from Sales Presentations pertaining to possible limitations on the right to use resorts outside of their home systems/resorts.  Since since sales has placed me in that community, I am interested in it.  And, yes a variation of that I heard about at Shawnee Village.

The next interesting step in the process now that the Associate Resorts have spun off, are the couple of resorts that have spoken on the 8 Affiliated Shell Resorts that were announced as coming to Club Wyndham Access going to be just available to the Access portion and not the Club Wyndham Plus group using only Club Wyndham Access points.  Then there is always the issue of the Affiliate Resorts.  The good news on this is only one person has indicated to me that this group was going also.

No matter what sales thinks, I am a member of their Old Fairfield Owner community, the Club Wyndham Access Community, and the new deeded UDI group.  The bulk of my holdings are the Old Fairfield Owner Community.

Under point number 14 of the published rules for Wyndham Club Pass, I will retain membership in what I currently own.

"Can I have a membership to more than one Club in the Wyndham Vacation Ownership portfolio of brands?  Yes. Membership into several of these respective Clubs is permitted. There are exclusive benefits of each respective Club separate and apart from WYNDHAM Club Pass."

Sales, in my case, is trying to equate Home Club as what their new community based system is.

Note the use of the term "several of these respective clubs".

A interesting note showed up on the new map for Wyndham Vacation Resorts with a yellow dot for proposed Outrigger Resorts Club by Wyndham.  The existing ones show up in the link below.

http://news.outrigger.com/five-club...-group-earn-top-property-designations-by-rci/

Wonder which Club or community they will show up in.  My guess is Club Wyndham Pass and that Outrigger Resorts Club by Wyndham will join Club Wyndham Plus and WorkMark in the Pass system.


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## RuralEngineer (Mar 29, 2014)

ronparise said:


> Im a real estate agent in SW Florida and am quite familiar with the vacation rental market here (Ft Myers, Ft Myers Beach  Sanibel Island etc)  Here our market is the 3 months of the winter.  Folks that buy condos to rent here, make their money in the winter, but the place sits vacant the rest of the year.  From what I see, (and I see a lot) folks are lucky to break even, let alone make a return on their substantial investment




I have found that the Orlando market is a little more even for the full year.  I have also found that having points and a vacation rental work will together.  If I can't book people in the townhouse I can book them in a local resort.

Stephen


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## vacationhopeful (Mar 29, 2014)

lcml11 said:


> Your question has been answered directly or indirectly in other threads.  *Am very interested *in finding out anything possible on the Old Fairfield Resorts.  A number of posters over time have given reports from Sales Presentations pertaining to possible limitations on the right to use resorts outside of their home systems/resorts.  Since since sales has placed me in that community, I am interested in it.  And, yes a variation of that I heard about at Shawnee Village.
> 
> The next interesting step in the process now that the Associate Resorts have spun off, are the couple of resorts that have spoken on the 8 Affiliated Shell Resorts that were announced as coming to Club Wyndham Access going to be just available to the Access portion and not the Club Wyndham Plus group using only Club Wyndham Access points.  Then there is always the issue of the Affiliate Resorts.  The good news on this is only one person has indicated to me that this group was going also.
> 
> ...



Per your last posting (in BOLD in the above quote) ... you are so totally OFF TOPIC on this thread with your ramblings and to the far, far (left or right) branch of some thought process.

So AGAIN, you have manage to insert yourself into a thread to confuse, dilute or just plain close the discourse that prior posters have contributed to expand and discuss.


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## ronparise (Mar 29, 2014)

vacationhopeful said:


> Per your last posting (in BOLD in the above quote) ... you are so totally OFF TOPIC on this thread with your ramblings and to the far, far (left or right) branch of some thought process.
> 
> So AGAIN, you have manage to insert yourself into a thread to confuse, dilute or just plain close the discourse that prior posters have contributed to expand and discuss.



Linda

Well it looks like my thread has been officially hijacked. I know discussions often go off course into other directions, and I accept that. Heck Ive been responsible more than once. But this time he's hijacked me into a black hole

 its like an Alice and Wonderland dream. and Grace Slick is singing

Go ask Alice (Robert)
I think she'll (he'll) know
When logic and proportion
Have fallen sloppy dead

And the White Knight is talking backwards
And the Red Queen's off with her(his) head
Remember what the dormouse said
"Feed your head, feed your head"

I think Robert must have already fed his head

Maybe one day we can get this back to affiliate resorts, and good weeks to PIC. and an inexpensive path to VIP. But for now I think we've learned all were gonna learn for now

Robert

Why dont you open up another thread to ask the questions that interest you. and I promise not to write them off or suggest that you must be high


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## vv813 (Mar 29, 2014)

May be it is just me--but don't I find it suspicious that he is very interested in how you did this.  Will he use this knowledge to make his account more legitmate to wyndham if he decides to buy more ts.  or could he be sales/mgmt  just doing an act to get more info on how people perceive the system and how it "works"  so that others may not take advantage of it or will this be ways for wyndham to take away another feature of the system that we currently have.   I have kind of seen this is some of the other things that have been posted.  Again maybe just suspicious


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## lcml11 (Mar 29, 2014)

vv813 said:


> May be it is just me--but don't I find it suspicious that he is very interested in how you did this.  Will he use this knowledge to make his account more legitmate to wyndham if he decides to buy more ts.  or could he be sales/mgmt  just doing an act to get more info on how people perceive the system and how it "works"  so that others may not take advantage of it or will this be ways for wyndham to take away another feature of the system that we currently have.   I have kind of seen this is some of the other things that have been posted.  Again maybe just suspicious



No, I am not sales or management.  My account great as it is with Wyndham.  No resale contract that were not gotten through Wyndham.  Not in the market right now for more timeshares Wyndham or otherwise.  

Caught me on the one that I am interested in how people perceive the system but not for the purpose of having Wyndham take it way.

Have no affiliate resorts.  Learned a lesson from my mother's account, Affiliates can come and go.  Got re-inforced with the departure of the Associate Resorts without a additional fee.


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## ronparise (Mar 29, 2014)

lcml11 said:


> No, I am not sales or management.  My account great as it is with Wyndham.  No resale contract that were not gotten through Wyndham.  Not in the market right now for more timeshares Wyndham or otherwise.
> 
> Caught me on the one that I am interested in how people perceive the system but not for the purpose of having Wyndham take it way.
> 
> Have no affiliate resorts.  Learned a lesson from my mother's account, Affiliates can come and go.  Got re-inforced with the departure of the Associate Resorts without a additional fee.



I guess what's confusing me is that I haven't seen affiliates go 

As near as I can tell affiliate points are points too and work just like my other points. 

What affiliates have come and gone??


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## vacationhopeful (Mar 29, 2014)

ronparise said:


> ....What affiliates have come and gone??



I call it the "SLOW DEATH" verses the "gone by the way side" for some affiliates. Say I owned a Fixed/Floating deeded week before Wyndham became the property manager. In comes Wyndham and I either trade in or convert my unit into Points - Wyndham leaves the management position; THAT is the "affiliated" resort's total inventory collection. And the affiliated units eventually go away as owners age out.


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## lcml11 (Mar 29, 2014)

ronparise said:


> I guess what's confusing me is that I haven't seen affiliates go
> 
> As near as I can tell affiliate points are points too and work just like my other points.
> 
> What affiliates have come and gone??



There have been posts over the years mentioning them.  The one I looked into and did not take was El Sid.  I notice that they appear to be back for booking through Wyndham but I do not know if the specific building my family was involved in is back or not.  Have not followed El Sid since then.

Sorry, forgot about Sands Ocean Club on the Ocean at Myrtle Beach.  I was on the good end of that deal, got a long term lease of one of the Wyndham timeshare units that they still controlled there.  They brought it into the Wyndham Club Plus system through the PIC program.

Do not know mush about it but I understand a St. Thomas resort may have gone by the wayside at some point.  Maybe, others can provide more names.

http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=23404

This maybe the one.  Check out post 11.


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## ronparise (Mar 29, 2014)

vacationhopeful said:


> I call it the "SLOW DEATH" verses the "gone by the way side" for some affiliates. Say I owned a Fixed/Floating deeded week before Wyndham became the property manager. In comes Wyndham and I either trade in or convert my unit into Points - Wyndham leaves the management position; THAT is the "affiliated" resort's total inventory collection. And the affiliated units eventually go away as owners age out.



Sure from the perspective of someone that wants to stay at an affiliate resort that makes sense but from where I sit as as a points owner at an affiliate, my my week is in the Fairshare trust for good. It's not going anywhere. And the associated points will work just fine. I think forever


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## ronparise (Mar 29, 2014)

lcml11 said:


> There have been posts over the years mentioning them.  The one I looked into and did not take was El Sid.  I notice that they appear to be back for booking through Wyndham but I do not know if the specific building my family was involved in is back or not.  Have not followed El Sid since then.
> 
> Sorry, forgot about Sands Ocean Club on the Ocean at Myrtle Beach.  I was on the good end of that deal, got a long term lease of one of the Wyndham timeshare units that they still controlled there.  They brought it into the Wyndham Club Plus system through the PIC program.
> 
> Do not know mush about it but I understand a St. Thomas resort may have gone by the wayside at some point.  Maybe, others can provide more names.



You need to understand the difference between  associates and affiliates

It's not enough to know the words you have to know what they mean too


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## lcml11 (Mar 29, 2014)

ronparise said:


> Sure from the perspective of someone that wants to stay at an affiliate resort that makes sense but from where I sit as as a points owner at an affiliate, my my week is in the Fairshare trust for good. It's not going anywhere. And the associated points will work just fine. I think forever



I think one poster said once to listen to Linda.  That may or may not be the correct advise in all cases, but, in this case it is not a bad idea.


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## vacationhopeful (Mar 29, 2014)

ronparise said:


> Sure from the perspective of someone that wants to stay at an affiliate resort that makes sense but from where I sit as as a points owner at an affiliate, my my week is in the Fairshare trust for good. It's not going anywhere. And the associated points will work just fine. I think forever



Yes, forever.... as a regular Wyndham owner, don't buy other points to book at an affiliated resort because it is in the PRETTY PICTURE. There is VERY limited inventory.


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