# Westgate haters enter.....



## Ernie (Nov 19, 2009)

There are several people on this forum that hate Westgate for what ever reasons. Since Im stuck with my Westgate Timeshare for now can all of you that cant stand WG please tell me WHY?  I mean real personal experience's you have gone through not just because someone else told you about something that happened to them. Maybe something you share will help all of us new people avoid any more problems in the future.

Thank you for your time.


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## timeos2 (Nov 19, 2009)

*The list is too long*



Ernie said:


> There are several people on this forum that hate Westgate for what ever reasons. Since Im stuck with my Westgate Timeshare for now can all of you that cant stand WG please tell me WHY?  I mean real personal experience's you have gone through not just because someone else told you about something that happened to them. Maybe something you share will help all of us new people avoid any more problems in the future.
> 
> Thank you for your time.



Just a few I can recall quickly:

 - The $100 jump in fess in one year for "maid service". Turns out the vast majority of owners didn't want it - it was done for sales ("Like a hotel we have maid service"). It was later repealed BUT the fee stayed exactly the same. 

- Owners were sold weeks that were all the same 52 weeks a year and allowed to make changes to fixed time for a minimal fee. Then suddenly there were "seasons" and low and behold all but about 3 weeks a years had to pay HUNDREDS of dollars to change to "a different season".  

- No representation from owners on the Boards ("We've never had anyone ask to be on a Board")

- They assign whatever dog week they feel like to II for exchange  - not your DEEDED fixed week! (And II lets them get away with it). 

- The never ending push to buy more - owner or not. The "maintenance" meetings you "must attend or we will charge you". 

- Total lack of renovation of the units. They were dated in the 80's and have never been upgraded despite all the annual fee rises. 

It goes on and on. We haven't even touched on the convictions of the owners/management in various courts or the outright lies of the sales department. The poor BB ratings. Thats enough. It's maddening just to recall some of this stuff. 

There is no such thing as a happy Wastegate owner - only one that hasn't been completely shafted - yet. Their time WILL come.


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## Ernie (Nov 20, 2009)

This has all happened to you !


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## timeos2 (Nov 20, 2009)

*A few more as I fume over recalling it*



Ernie said:


> This has all happened to you !



Just a sampling of over a decade of (fortunately resale) ownership with the worlds worst timeshare organization (and I didn't even mention the false ROFR claims (they don't have it) or the claims that they are owed a commission on any resale (the list is SO long it's  impossible to remember them all) Had I paid retail I might have been tempted to commit battery on some sleazy sale weasels.


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## Ernie (Nov 20, 2009)

> and I didn't even mention the false ROFR claims (they don't have it)



Are you just talking about your TS with them or overall, even with a recent purchase like mine? I didnt notice anything in my contract about it but it would be easy to overlook.


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## BellaWyn (Nov 20, 2009)

*Westgate*

timeos2, if you hate it so much, _*WHY*_ do you still own? 

There are numerous things about all of our TS properties that annoy me and more than once felt like we've been "shafted."  But if I felt as vehement as you continue to reflect it becomes confusing why you haven't gotten rid of your ownership, especially since you purchased resale.  If it were creating that much internal anger for me, I'd dump it in a heartbeat to relieve myself of the stressor!

Just curious.

Disclaimer:  Realize that I am setting myself up to get blasted here so will try to hang on for the ride.  Oy!


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## timeos2 (Nov 20, 2009)

*At one time we really liked it. Then we had to deal with the Kings court*



BellaWyn said:


> timeos2, if you hate it so much, _*WHY*_ do you still own?
> 
> There are numerous things about all of our TS properties that annoy me and more than once felt like we've been "shafted."  But if I felt as vehement as you continue to reflect it becomes confusing why you haven't gotten rid of your ownership, especially since you purchased resale.  If it were creating that much internal anger for me, I'd dump it in a heartbeat to relieve myself of the stressor!
> 
> ...



We have been able to squeeze enough value out by using RCI and SFX (if we were stuck with II it would be a 110% loser situation - as it is its 95%) which combined with the extremely low resale price means, for now, we put up with the frustrations and hope at some point for a reasonable amount of our already low resale purchase cost back.  I hate to just give it away but it may come to that eventually. Meanwhile no one can claim we're just spouting off or commenting on others issues but speak of actual negative ownership experience.  Nothing like the real thing to get a feel for it.


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## timeos2 (Nov 20, 2009)

Ernie said:


> Are you just talking about your TS with them or overall, even with a recent purchase like mine? I didnt notice anything in my contract about it but it would be easy to overlook.



Most do not have ROFR but some - mostly  those built after 2002 do. But of course they lie and say they all have it so you can't trust them for an answer.


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## T_R_Oglodyte (Nov 20, 2009)

From having observed Westgate from the outside as a person who simply keeps track of the timeshare community ....

one key to Westgate's mode of operation is to hire sharp attorneys who can define and even push the boundaries of legality and liability, then move their operation to that level.  They have little hesitation to beat people down with their lawyers when they want to.  

They drove The Timeshare Beat out of business because they didn't like that Rod was posting inside dirt that was being passed on by insiders.  

And they are always careful to make enough political contributions to ensure that local government decisions go in their favor whenever possible

They have no compunction whatsoever about taking advantage of every opportunity to degrade the value of what owners have purchased, within the bounds of what is legally permissible, if they believe it will help them sell more to suckers.

They are, to my eyes, simply the slimiest developer operating in the US.  I will give them credit for being one cut better than the dregs of the Mexican developers, though even in Mexico they would still rank in the bottom half.


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## BellaWyn (Nov 20, 2009)

*I get it*

It's not like I don't get the frustration with Westgate and completely agree with the disgust specific their approach to TS sales and management.  We made an INFORMED decision years ago to never purchase or trade into Westgate properties for all of the same reasons.  We'd trade into a total unknown before ever staying at a Westgate property again.

Where I get lost is in the rant.  Teh OP's desire is to better UNDERSTAND in order to navigate what he already knows is a challenging situation. 



> We have been able to squeeze enough value out by using RCI and SFX



It would be more useful to explain HOW you "squeeze value" rather than reflect vehement anger with "slimiest, sleazy and weasels" as part of the response.

It scares the *$%@ out of a newbie!  We need HELP, not fear!


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## T_R_Oglodyte (Nov 20, 2009)

BellaWyn said:


> Where I get lost is in the rant.  Teh OP's desire is to better UNDERSTAND in order to navigate what he already knows is a challenging situation.



The OP asked:
_Since Im stuck with my Westgate Timeshare for now can all of you that cant stand WG please tell me WHY? _​People are just saying why they can't stand Wastegate.


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## Ernie (Nov 20, 2009)

Well Im glad that you guys are really letting it out. I did expect more people here to tell of some bad experience they had with WG but maybe it will just take a while.  Timeos2 if you ever do dump your timeshare I hope that no one reads your posts or you will have to pay them to take it.   But I do want to thank you for letting us know about WG.



> It scares the *$%@ out of a newbie! We need HELP, not fear!


BellaWyn, this is true I did lose some sleep over bad comments of what I had bought but one day I will face the WG people again and I will have much more knowledge about how they operate.


Now I know there has to be other people on here who have some stories to tell.


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## AwayWeGo (Nov 20, 2009)

*Lawyer-Whipping The Opposition.*




T_R_Oglodyte said:


> one key to Westgate's mode of operation is to hire sharp attorneys who can define and even push the boundaries of legality and liability, then move their operation to that level.  They have little hesitation to beat people down with their lawyers when they want to.


That makes me semi-worried WestGate will sic some lawyers on the TUG people who dare to tell it the way it is. 

Truth is an absolute defense, of course.  But certain kinds of lawyers care lots more about tangling opponents up in procedural red tape than about actually winning cases.  Win or lose, just being tied up in a court case is a form of punishment all by itself. 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


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## T_R_Oglodyte (Nov 20, 2009)

AwayWeGo said:


> That makes me semi-worried WestGate will sic some lawyers on the TUG people who dare to tell it the way it is.
> 
> Truth is an absolute defense, of course.  But certain kinds of lawyers care lots more about tangling opponents up in procedural red tape than about actually winning cases.  Win or lose, just being tied up in a court case is a form of punishment all by itself.
> 
> -- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.[/SIZE]


Yes - Westgate is one of those operations that will sic the lawyers on people when they believe it is worth their time and energy to do so, counting on the fact that most people cannot afford to defend themselves against a full legal onslaught.

The other party is then forced to settle not because the party is wrong, but because the other party simply can't afford to mount a defense against an organization with the resources of Westgate.  That's what happened to Timeshare Bear.  Beat was basically a Mom and Pop operation that couldn't withstand a full scale assualt from Westgate.  They made a tiny mistake, but that was enough a crack in the door for Westgate to force the door open, get a judgment, and seize all of their assets.


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## Ernie (Nov 21, 2009)

> That makes me semi-worried WestGate will sic some lawyers on the TUG people who dare to tell it the way it is.




Thats sad if people would worry about that. I really dont think they care about people talking on a forum. If I ever run into problems with them I'll be sure to let people know. Its my right and my opinion!


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## chriskre (Nov 21, 2009)

T_R_Oglodyte said:


> Yes - Westgate is one of those operations that will sic the lawyers on people when they believe it is worth their time and energy to do so, counting on the fact that most people cannot afford to defend themselves against a full legal onslaught.
> 
> The other party is then forced to settle not because the party is wrong, but because the other party simply can't afford to mount a defense against an organization with the resources of Westgate.  That's what happened to Timeshare Bear.  Beat was basically a Mom and Pop operation that couldn't withstand a full scale assualt from Westgate.  They made a tiny mistake, but that was enough a crack in the door for Westgate to force the door open, get a judgment, and seize all of their assets.



Wow, now I'm really glad that I only spent $79 for a bonus getaway at Wastegate.  Makes me feel somewhat compensated for all you owners who have been screwed by Wastegate.  

It's really a shame because the resorts have alot of potential to be nice if they'd stop siphoning off the profits and reinvest in the product.  I think it would make for alot more happy owners and less need for a slick legal team.    

Then they could honestly compete and earn an honest buck.  It's a shame that evil exists in the TS world.  They really are giving the business a bad name.  It's just not necessary.   There is enough food for everyone out there.


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## T_R_Oglodyte (Nov 21, 2009)

Ernie said:


> Thats sad if people would worry about that. I really dont think they care about people talking on a forum. If I ever run into problems with them I'll be sure to let people know. Its my right and my opinion!



They probably don't care much about TUG - though it's almost certain they read what is posted here.

They did care about what was being said at Timeshare Beat.  They simply waited until they saw an opportunity to make a claim for damages that would withstand a motion for summary judgment.  (IOW something a judge wouldn't immediately dismiss as unreasonable or improper.)

Then they hit The Beat with a full scale legal attack - one that would have requred The Beat to spend around $100,000 or more to defend themselves. The Beat didn't have those kinds of resources to defend themselves.


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## Ernie (Nov 21, 2009)

chriskre said:


> Wow, now I'm really glad that I only spent $79 for a bonus getaway at Wastegate.  Makes me feel somewhat compensated for all you owners who have been screwed by Wastegate.




So how was it and where did you stay? Were you bugged by any of the westgate people there?


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## gmarine (Nov 21, 2009)

I think one reason you dont have more long posts about problems with Westgage is that many of us have already posted in the past about how bad Westgate is. Search the forums, I'm sure you will come up with many stories of Westgate.


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## billymach4 (Nov 21, 2009)

*May I enter?*

http://www.consumeraffairs.com/travel/westgate.html

I love the internet! Here is a laundry list that comes up on a google search 
of westgate timeshares complaints.


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## chriskre (Nov 21, 2009)

Ernie said:


> So how was it and where did you stay? Were you bugged by any of the westgate people there?



I posted a review on the timeshareforum but actually my stay wasn't so bad.  I had been there 2 times before so I knew what to expect but was hoping that they had at least remodeled the units which of course they had not.  Still it was better than staying in a motel in Kissimmee.  

I think it's really a shame because the location of the resort is not bad and the grounds are kept nicely but the units still have the tired formica and washed oak look to them and the beds are terrible.  I hate the garden tub in the 2nd bedroom with that stupid glass enclosure which makes getting in and out for short people like me difficult.  

Other than those annoyances I did enjoy my stay.  
We did have a few plumbing problems but honestly the staff were very nice and prompt in fixiing anything.  

I didn't answer the phone though because I knew who it was.
My friends did the timeshare tour but Wastegate did not want me since I am single and live in Florida.  It seems that people because of the economy are working on timeshare tours for the free money so they've decided to discriminate with singles.  Not that I cared because honestly I did not want to go but my friends did go and said that the room was packed with people touring.  The sales pitch was very high pressure and they were extremely annoyed when my friends told them that they were not going to buy now.
The prices were ridiculous.  $15K for a 2 bedroom in the new area and $10K for a 1 bedroom or 8K for a 2 bedroom in the Villas (the old section).   
You can buy DVC for that direct from Disney.  

It was a steal deal so I don't really care but if I had exchanged into this resort I'd be pretty pissed about a few things.


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## Ernie (Nov 22, 2009)

Thanks everyone for your input. The comsumeraffairs reports are unreal!

But we have to be fair here I did searches on other timeshare companies and there were many of the same complaints.


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## Jollyhols (Nov 23, 2009)

I have also had a moan on the forum in the past so will try to keep these points to actual experiences, as the OP seems to want:

1.  Maintenance has increased a lot every year. By the time we have deposited with II just in case we cannot go during our fixed week, it would be cheaper to rent.  I rented a studio there last week for just $61 for one night.
2.  Units are getting tatty and need redecorating, although I think they are working their way round the resort to a certain extent.
3. After a long flight and just wanting to get to our room, the staff try to get you to agree a day to attend a presentation (even though we already own) and ask you to pay a $20 deposit which will be credited to discounted attraction park tickets once you have attended.  This appears to be a new tack to get you to attend a presentation, as opposed to previously saying you have to attend a 'maintenance meeting'.
4.  A couple of times over the past few years we have attended the required 'maintenance' meetings which of course are really further selling opportunities for Westgate.  The most annoying occasion was when the rep told us our unit was now worth $62,000, when we cannot even sell it for $2000 (or even under a 'make an offer'!).
5.  The other year they decided that our week would become a 'value' week which was annoying because we originally bought a June week, and only changed it to November (with their agreement and no refund, as they said all weeks were 'red' weeks) because we were more likely to travel in November.  For exchange purposes we should have kept the June week.
6.  Now they have nearly completed the new buildings (which look quite nice, along the design of the Marriott's Ocean Pointe style) they have blocked off the pathway by the lake, so instead of walking along by the lake you have to walk along the paths by the car park.  I notice they haven't built a new pool for the new buildings so presumably the other pools will become crowded as a result.

Those are my main gripes with Westgate.

Good points / tips:

1.  Exchange on Interval and you can sometimes get a better unit, e.g. this year I exchanged my lock off studio for a 2 bedroom unit.
2.  If noise bothers you, try to ask for a top floor unit.  Last year we had rooms above us and were irritated by someone (presumably children) constantly running around (the floors are all tiled, so you hear a slap, slap, slap sound) and when people move furniture such as the dining chairs you hear a screeching sound.  Children's toys (marbles possibly) being rolled around the floors make a noise.  Also people tend to use the noisy hot tubs at all times of the night - if you are on top of the noise it tends to be a bit less.

That's it I think.  Hope that has been helpful and kept to the point.


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## tom714 (Dec 5, 2009)

*westgate*

It's bad enough being an owner at westgate.I have not worked there, I have worked at several Resorts in Orlando for 10 years, I just want to let you know they treat their sales reps just about as bad!Only the higher ups who are friends or family make out good there!


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