# Westin Hawaii Kaanapali North EOY



## Iowa Rod (Apr 2, 2007)

If a person bought a new westin hawaii on the resale market. I have found a eoy ocean front with 148,100 points for about 18,000. We want to add either this or Martriott Maui Ocean club as we go there every other year. If a person only wanted to use the 1 bedroom can you put your remaining points into the next yr. Also can you borrow points?  I know much about the marriott product but little about the Westin. I do know that the marriott is hard to get the week you want reserved. Any ideas on how hard it will be to reserve the 3rd week in march at this westin.
Thanks, Rod


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## KOR5Star (Apr 2, 2007)

Iowa Rod said:


> If a person bought a new westin hawaii on the resale market. I have found a eoy ocean front with 148,100 points for about 18,000.


WOW!   That sounds like a really good deal.  Are you absolutely sure it's ocean front?  A lot of unscrupulous sellers use the term "ocean front" to describe the resort and then allow the buyer to believe the unit itself is ocean front.  At that price, I would have some serious doubts and ask for proof... the unit number, so you can check with the Starwood Vacation Network (SVN).



Iowa Rod said:


> We want to add either this or Martriott Maui Ocean club as we go there every other year. If a person only wanted to use the 1 bedroom can you put your remaining points into the next yr.


No.  Nothing can be held over to the next year.  If you don't plan to use it, you need to bank it with II or try to rent it.



Iowa Rod said:


> Also can you borrow points?


Yes.  You can borrow StarOptions from the following year if you pay your MF for the following year.  This would allow you to use a Studio one year and a 1BR the next.  Or you could go twice in two years, but then you'd have a two year dry spell.

The problem with borrowing is you lose the 12 month to 8 month owner's window, therefore you'll lose any chance at a high demand week. 



Iowa Rod said:


> I know much about the marriott product but little about the Westin. I do know that the marriott is hard to get the week you want reserved. Any ideas on how hard it will be to reserve the 3rd week in march at this westin.
> Thanks, Rod


It will be very easy.  There are no "super-owners" in the SVN as there are with Marriott.  Everyone that owns at a property gets exactly the same chance to book at that property.  It matters not how many weeks a person owns.  We all get treated equally.  The window is 12 months to 8 months.  After 8 months anyone owning a property anywhere within the SVN can book.  If the week you want is high demand, you had better get yourself on the phone the moment SVN opens up, 12 months in advance.  If you do that, you'll get your time for sure.


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## Denise L (Apr 2, 2007)

I agree that the price sounds too good to be true, but if it is truly an EOY OF, go for it (I didn't know that they sold EOY OFs anywhere, always thought they were EY only).

If you "borrow" Staroptions, my understanding is that you can only use them within 90 days of check-in, so they are probably best used during off-season with a lot of flexibility.


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## Iowa Rod (Apr 2, 2007)

*i found this on a tug add*

I spoke to Fred today on this about his add on Tug and he told me it was an oceanfront. I will find out the room number and go from there.
Thanks, Rod Brannan


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## Denise L (Apr 2, 2007)

I just browsed the current TUG ads and the only WKORV-N OF I saw was EY for $56900.

The EOYs for $18900 are for WKORV-N Island View (IV) or WKORV-N Ocean View (OV).


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## Iowa Rod (Apr 2, 2007)

Denise thats the one the eoy that they are aksing 18,900 for


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## DeniseM (Apr 2, 2007)

Iowa Rod said:


> I spoke to Fred today on this about his add on Tug and he told me it was an oceanfront. I will find out the room number and go from there.
> Thanks, Rod Brannan



Fred has 3 units for sale on TUG: ocean front, ocean view, and island view, listed in 3 different ads.  Maybe he thought you were referring to his Ad for Ocean Front when you called.  

Island View units will really vary in view - some will have a good angled viewed of the ocean and some will just have a glimpse.  The view you get is based on how early in the day, at exactly 12 mos. out, you make your Resv.  The early bird gets the worm.  Reserving the 3rd week in March shouldn't be hard as long as you call at the butt-crack of dawn at exactly 12 mos. out.  (The Resv. office is in Florida - bad for us left coasters!)

I'm not sure that having the unit number will help very much at this point, because I don't think anyone knows exactly how the units are numbered, since the resort is still under construction.  However, the deed will definitely specify - Island View, Ocean View, or Ocean Front.

Good luck - please let us know how it turns out!


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## Denise L (Apr 2, 2007)

Iowa Rod said:


> Denise thats the one the eoy that they are aksing 18,900 for



Okay, then it's either Ocean View or Island View, but not Ocean Front. So then the price seems appropriate.  For the same price, get the Ocean View...same Staroptions, same MFs, etc. Fred is great to work with. Good luck!


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## Westin5Star (Apr 2, 2007)

I bought an OF Deluxe from Fred.  He is awesome to work with.  Very honest and helpful and great communication!


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## KOR5Star (Apr 3, 2007)

DeniseM said:


> I'm not sure that having the unit number will help very much at this point, because I don't think anyone knows exactly how the units are numbered, since the resort is still under construction.  However, the deed will definitely specify - Island View, Ocean View, or Ocean Front.


Either the room number or contract number can be used by SVN to look up what view category the unit has.  They are glad to do it.  

They won't divulge the owner's name or personal info, hence the reason I suggested asking for the room number instead of the contract number.  That way, SVN is sure you are not trying to pry into a particular person's private info, because many different people will own that particular room.


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## DeniseM (Apr 3, 2007)

KOR5Star said:


> Either the room number or contract number can be used by SVN to look up what view category the unit has.  They are glad to do it.



Thanks - that's a great tip!


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## Iowa Rod (Apr 3, 2007)

*this sounds like a great property*

I would have bought a Marriott except I am so afraid of not getting a week I need. I dont want to pay Marriott 1300 mf and then not get a week in the summer or in late march during my childrens spring break. As we only go to Hawaii about once every other year I think this will fill a void for me. Also this looks like a great property. Is there any difference at the new north location?
Thanks, Rod


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## califgal (Apr 3, 2007)

The new North property is right next door to the original.  It will have more pools, a lazy river, I think, and a pirate ship for the kids  which I think will have a movie screen as the sails.  Supposedly, if you own at the original you will be able to have acesss to the pool at the new property.  I don't know if that has changed, or could change policy  at any time.  I think the units are more like a real 2 bdrm without the common outside hallway separating the studio from the one bdrm, but still can be useds lock off.

If I made any errors fellow tuggers please correct me!


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## ciscogizmo1 (Apr 3, 2007)

Iowa Rod said:


> I would have bought a Marriott except I am so afraid of not getting a week I need. I dont want to pay Marriott 1300 mf and then not get a week in the summer or in late march during my childrens spring break. As we only go to Hawaii about once every other year I think this will fill a void for me. Also this looks like a great property. Is there any difference at the new north location?
> Thanks, Rod



There was a post at the end of March where someone did not get their check-in date they wanted at WKORV.  You might want to check it out. 

My aunt owns every other year at Marriott Maui and hasn't had a problem reserving at 12 months.  She owns an Island/garden view which I believe they have a lot more units.


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## formerhater (Apr 3, 2007)

califgal said:


> The new North property is right next door to the original.  It will have more pools, a lazy river, I think, and a pirate ship for the kids  which I think will have a movie screen as the sails.  Supposedly, if you own at the original you will be able to have acesss to the pool at the new property.  I don't know if that has changed, or could change policy  at any time.  I think the units are more like a real 2 bdrm without the common outside hallway separating the studio from the one bdrm, but still can be useds lock off.
> 
> If I made any errors fellow tuggers please correct me!



I think you've got it all...Something I didn't realize from all the renderings until I got there was the fact that it's really starting to look like one whole property (if you ignore the fact that half is still under construction).  With the location of the pirate ship/kiddie area between the two properties, it seems to link them together pretty well.


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## KOR5Star (Apr 3, 2007)

califgal said:


> The new North property is right next door to the original.  It will have more pools, a lazy river, I think, and a pirate ship for the kids  which I think will have a movie screen as the sails.  Supposedly, if you own at the original you will be able to have acesss to the pool at the new property.  I don't know if that has changed, or could change policy  at any time.  I think the units are more like a real 2 bdrm without the common outside hallway separating the studio from the one bdrm, but still can be useds lock off.
> 
> If I made any errors fellow tuggers please correct me!


No, just two pools... it just has a regular pool (no slide) and a kiddie pool with very small pirate ship with mini slide... toddlers only type of thing.  No lazy river.  That was an old rumor.

All four properties slated for that strip will share resources.  I'm a little annoyed at that because the original is the only one with a "real" pool slide and tennis courts.  I don't even see a hot tub in the new place, but I'm hoping they put one somewhere.  The originaly resort's resources are going to be sorely taxed when it's all built up.  C'mon two tennis courts servicing four timeshare resorts!?!?  I've wrote a letter of complaint as soon as I saw the overall plans.


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## KOR5Star (Apr 3, 2007)

ciscogizmo1 said:


> There was a post at the end of March where someone did not get their check-in date they wanted at WKORV.  You might want to check it out.
> 
> My aunt owns every other year at Marriott Maui and hasn't had a problem reserving at 12 months.  She owns an Island/garden view which I believe they have a lot more units.


If they don't call as soon as SPG opens one year in advance, yeah, duh, they could miss out on their desired week.  As in all timeshare programs, most of the people want the same weeks.  Not everyone can get them.  First come, first serve.  At least with Westin everyone is treated equally, no matter how many weeks one owns.  

The important difference between Marriott and Westin is the idea of "super owners" at Marriott.  Multiple week owners in Marriott get a "head start" in making reservations over single week owners.  This effectively bars most of the single week owners from ever getting high demand weeks.  It forces Marriott owners to purchase more weeks just to get some decent usage from their already-bought-and-paid-for ownership. 

I would advise anyone looking at a Marriott timeshare to make sure they get cozy with the Ts & Cs, especially looking to see if anyone else can make reservations before they can.  That's a real killer and makes the timeshare virtually useless.


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## Iowa Rod (Apr 3, 2007)

What are the t's and c's your reffering to.
Rod


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## DeniseM (Apr 3, 2007)

Rod - Are you considering the Ocean View unit?


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## DeniseM (Apr 3, 2007)

KOR5Star said:


> No, just two pools... it just has a regular pool (no slide) and a kiddie pool with very small pirate ship with mini slide... toddlers only type of thing.  No lazy river.  That was an old rumor.




The lazy river was actually in the original published design, but they took it out later.


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## califgal (Apr 4, 2007)

That's too bad about the lazy river!
KOR5star..there's going to be 4 properties?  I got the brochure for  the third one.


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## ciscogizmo1 (Apr 4, 2007)

KOR5Star said:


> I would advise anyone looking at a Marriott timeshare to make sure they get cozy with the Ts & Cs, especially looking to see if anyone else can make reservations before they can.  That's a real killer and makes the timeshare virtually useless.



Have you ever owned a Marriott timeshare?  I've stayed in more places with Marriott than I'll ever will with Westin.   All timeshares have their pros and cons.  I'm glad you like Westin but I really think you are making it a bigger deal than it is.  JMHO.... I've never had problems getting into the places I wanted to go to.  I travel strictly during summer and school holidays.  YOu can check the pictures in my signature and you can see all the places I have visited.


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## ciscogizmo1 (Apr 4, 2007)

DeniseM said:


> The lazy river was actually in the original published design, but they took it out later.



This is where Westin stucks.  If I could I'd sell my Westin and buy at Marriott Maui or Ko'Olina where the pools are or will be much better, I would.  Ko'Olina is adding a pool slide and a lazy river similar to the one at Maui Marriott.  I think Westin is gonna have a lot of disappointed timeshare owners when they see that the lazy river wasn't added.


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## Courts (Apr 4, 2007)

KOR5Star said:


> No, *just two pools*... it just has a regular pool (no slide) and a kiddie pool with very small pirate ship with mini slide... toddlers only type of thing.  No lazy river.  That was an old rumor.
> 
> All four properties slated for that strip will share resources.  I'm a little annoyed at that because the original is the only one with a "real" pool slide and tennis courts.  I don't even see a hot tub in the new place, but I'm hoping they put one somewhere.  The originaly resort's resources are going to be sorely taxed when it's all built up.  C'mon two tennis courts servicing four timeshare resorts!?!?  I've wrote a letter of complaint as soon as I saw the overall plans.



When I was showed the drawing for the north section, there were three water designations. One was much smaller than the others. Is there a "pond" in the plans, or is that what was taken out ?


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## KOR5Star (Apr 4, 2007)

ciscogizmo1 said:


> Have you ever owned a Marriott timeshare?  I've stayed in more places with Marriott than I'll ever will with Westin.   All timeshares have their pros and cons.  I'm glad you like Westin but I really think you are making it a bigger deal than it is.  JMHO.... I've never had problems getting into the places I wanted to go to.  I travel strictly during summer and school holidays.  YOu can check the pictures in my signature and you can see all the places I have visited.


My sister owns with Marriott on Maui.  I relating her experience.  Her timeshare was literally unusable during high demand weeks.  She tried for four years, then bought more so she could actually use what she owned.

I'm not talking without knowledge.  As of about 18 months ago, when my sister finally gave in and bought more Marriott timeshare, Marriott allowed multi-week owners to book before single week owners.  That's a fact.  It's also a fact that high demand weeks booked out completely before the single week owners ever get a chance to book.  If this policy has changed, please inform me of the new policy.  I'd hate to continue to mis-inform people.


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## KOR5Star (Apr 4, 2007)

ciscogizmo1 said:


> This is where Westin stucks.  If I could I'd sell my Westin and buy at Marriott Maui or Ko'Olina where the pools are or will be much better, I would.  Ko'Olina is adding a pool slide and a lazy river similar to the one at Maui Marriott.  I think Westin is gonna have a lot of disappointed timeshare owners when they see that the lazy river wasn't added.


Huh?  Why can't you?  The Marriott is selling for less on the resale market than Westin.  You'll be able to sell the Westin, buy a Marriott and have some cash in your pockets.

See, I just made your day. :whoopie:  Now go on, skeedaddle... and own what you really want to own.  We only go 'round once.  Why suffer with Westin when that's not what you want?


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## ketamine (Apr 5, 2007)

KOR5Star said:


> I would advise anyone looking at a Marriott timeshare to make sure they get cozy with the Ts & Cs, especially looking to see if anyone else can make reservations before they can.



Like Rod, I too am wondering about T's and C's. 

Also in a general response to this thread I have NEVER NOT gotten exactly the weeks I have wanted at KVOR, St.John's, Harborside, Avon or WMH and curiously I have also never reserved as early as 12 months or 8 months. IMHO if you want to have more control over your plans Westin is easier to work with.:whoopie:


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## califgal (Apr 5, 2007)

My friend owns Marriott at Newport Beach and they own one week/year.  They always battle to get their week.  They call first thing in the morning 12 months out.  They can only go during summer breaks.  They have been lucky and get the last week before school starts, but it's always so stressful!  When people own 2 weeks/year they can reserve 13 months out and those people seem to get all of the reservations.

That's why I like Starwood with our reservation policy. When you call in the 12-8 month window you can get your home resort.

The Marriott locatioms are tempting though!


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## cmi (Apr 5, 2007)

Not all units at a resort are available for reservation to owners who own more than 1 week at Marriott.  I believe 50% are available for 13 month reservations.  If all units were given to those who own more than 1 weeks you'd have a lot of upset 1 week owners.


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## califgal (Apr 5, 2007)

Not to be rude, but I've read posts from a lot of unhappy Marriott owners.  However when makinig reservations it's luck of the draw.  Interesting to know the 13 month rule does not apply to all resorts, I'll have to see if my friend knows that.


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## cmi (Apr 5, 2007)

Sorry if I wasn't very clear.  All resorts qualify for the 13 month rule.  Not all units or inventory is available for reservation at that time.  They have to leave weeks available for those who own 1 week.  Othewise 1 week owners would not be too happy. But yes, you do have to be prepared to call early even if you own more than one week.  Westins are awesome, but I can't afford to buy one.  I believe MF fees are higher than Marriott (in Hawaii and Arizona) and the cost to purchase one is higher too.  Hope that makes more sense.


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## ciscogizmo1 (Apr 5, 2007)

Deleted not on topic


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## ciscogizmo1 (Apr 5, 2007)

deleted not on topic..


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## KOR5Star (Apr 5, 2007)

ketamine said:


> Like Rod, I too am wondering about T's and C's.
> 
> Also in a general response to this thread I have NEVER NOT gotten exactly the weeks I have wanted at KVOR, St.John's, Harborside, Avon or WMH and curiously I have also never reserved as early as 12 months or 8 months. IMHO if you want to have more control over your plans Westin is easier to work with.:whoopie:


Sorry for assuming everyone would know what I was talking about.

"T's & C's" is short for "Terms & Conditions".  They might be called something else in the timeshare world.  I seem to remember a CD and a book with a different title, but esentially they are the T's & C's of the timeshare usage agreement.

No contract should ever be entered without a diligent review of the T's & C's for the contract.  This is exactly where most of the frustration of new owners is born.  They listen to what is said.  They don't read what is written.  The ONLY thing that counts is what is written.  What is merely said is garbage.


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## KOR5Star (Apr 5, 2007)

ciscogizmo1 said:


> Well, my aunt owns a Maui Marriott week and had no trouble reserving a summer week last year.  In fact she only owns one week every other year and has never had trouble reserving her week.  So I'm speaking from experience too.  I'm just trying to say not ALL marriott owners have trouble reserving their week.  You make it sound like if you own Marriott and you are a single week owner you'll never get your reservation during a high demand week.  That is just not true.  I'll remember this when you don't get your week at a Westin.  Don't worry one day it will happen....  YOu can count on it.


I'm so sorry to continually dissagree with you, but I am VERY familiar with the Marriott system.  When I was ready to buy Westin, I ran over to Marriott and grilled them for a couple of hours about the inner details of their system.  I had managers come over, we got corporate on the phone, etc...  I was already armed with the experience of my sister.  She was, in fact, there on Maui with me when I bought Westin... and was advocating I purchase Marriott instead.  

As for your aunt, a "summer week" is not enough info to determine if it's a high demand week.  For instance, anyone can go just about anywhere in August.  Half the country is back in school and l've personally taken advantage of some truly wonderful last minute vacation deals during these "summer weeks".  

What I'm talking about are the universally accepted high demand weeks... Week's 51 and 52, President's week/February break, 4th of July week, etc...  If you own only one week with Marriott, you will simply not be booking these weeks.  If asked directly, even Marriott admits it is very difficult for single week owners to get the highest demand times.

I am not an anti-Marriott guy, although this particular discussion has me on the "knock Marriott" side.  I like the hotel chain and, for the most part, their timeshare program.  I used to be Platinum with Marriott before converting to Starwood.  I can't count the times I've been approached by them for timeshare.  I've taken many a promo with them over the years.  I know their properties very, VERY well.



ciscogizmo1 said:


> I don't think so... I bought from the developer so I'd be losing money.  No thanks..


I'm sorry to say that I don't believe for one instant that we will ever see the resale value of our timeshares approach the price we paid for them.  By the time that happens, inflation and the unrealized returns that money could have brought us will still keep us securely in red ink.

If you buy a stock for $10 and it's only worth $5 today, that's what you have... a $5 dollar stock.  If you see another stock that is more attractive, you don't wait until the bad stock goes back to $10.  You simply sell and move your investment into something more to your liking.

That's all I'm suggesting you do with your timeshare.  I'm sorry to say it's worth what it is worth and no more.  If you truly look upon Marriott as a more attractive place to be, my sincerest advice to you is make the move.  Move on and enjoy your life to it's fullest.  

I couldn't imagine making myself and my family stay in a place that I thought was second best, when what I beleived was "first best" could be had for less then second best could be sold for.  Think about that.  You will get what you really want AND have money in your pocket.  Why on Earth would you not consider that?

Again, we only live this life one time.  Don't stand around thinking what you could have done or what you will do next time.  You already did it and there will be no next time.


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## KOR5Star (Apr 5, 2007)

cmi said:


> Not all units at a resort are available for reservation to owners who own more than 1 week at Marriott.  I believe 50% are available for 13 month reservations.  If all units were given to those who own more than 1 weeks you'd have a lot of upset 1 week owners.


I don't think it's anywhere near 50%, but I have not facts to back that up.

My sister owned one week on Ka'anapali and she tried for years to get Presidents week.  She tried to call the very moment she could and still, she came up empty handed year after year.  Sure she got a week every year, but it was never the week she truly wanted.  Then she became a multi-week owner and she's been able to book Presidents week with no problems..

When I went to Marriott and discussed this with them, they basically agreed.  They DO have a lot of upset single week owners.  Mostly new owners.  Once the realization sets in these people either resell or buy another week.  What's left are people that can live with the system.

The same is true for the Westin.  There are plenty of first timers that didn't fully understand that they had to call 1 year out or not get their week.  A lot of people can't possibly know one year out.  Those upset people tend to sell their week and move on.  The ones that can live with the program stay.

Again, I really hate to be on the "bashing Marriott" side of things.  I think their properties and program are fine.  I simply pointed out a major wart after someone suggested that Westin owners had a problem getting weeks and Marriott didn't.  If you're talking multi-week owners, then in that regard, the ability to book are generally equal.  The same can't be said for a single week Westin owner versus a single week Marriott owner.


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## Iowa Rod (Apr 5, 2007)

*What would a good price be*

I am reday to make Fred an offer. They are asking 18,500 for this what would be a reasonable offer. 
Thanks, Rod


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## myip (Apr 5, 2007)

Iowa Rod said:


> I am reday to make Fred an offer. They are asking 18,500 for this what would be a reasonable offer.
> Thanks, Rod


Is this ocean view, ocean front or island view?  If island view, I would offer around $15K.


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## ciscogizmo1 (Apr 5, 2007)

deleted not on topic..


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## ciscogizmo1 (Apr 5, 2007)

deleted not on topic


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## Iowa Rod (Apr 5, 2007)

*it is island view*

Thanks for your help. I made him an offer of 15,000. Lets see what happens. Do you think this will pass rofr?


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## Denise L (Apr 5, 2007)

Iowa Rod said:


> Thanks for your help. I made him an offer of 15,000. Lets see what happens. Do you think this will pass rofr?



As a happy WKORV owner, I'm going to be selfish  and say that I hope this "low" offer doesn't get accepted by the seller, as it means my timeshare is worth SO much less than it really should be  !  

But I'm not wishing you any bad luck, and Fred is great to work with.  I just don't like seeing "comps" so low  .  FYI, Starwood rarely exercises its ROFR.


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## DavidnRobin (Apr 5, 2007)

Denise L said:


> As a happy WKORV owner, I'm going to be selfish  and say that I hope this "low" offer doesn't get accepted by the seller, as it means my timeshare is worth SO much less than it really should be  !
> 
> But I'm not wishing you any bad luck, and Fred is great to work with.  I just don't like seeing "comps" so low  .  FYI, Starwood rarely exercises its ROFR.


I am confused - after reading this post - and trying to look beyond the "off-topic" discussion of SVO/Marriott - are you now saying that this wasn't OF afterall, and that this is an offer for an EOY IV at WKORV-N - correct?

Why would this offer be out-of-line with expecatations?  Based on WKORV IV prices - a price of $15K is about what I would expect.


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## Denise L (Apr 5, 2007)

DavidnRobin said:


> I am confused - after reading this post - and trying to look beyond the "off-topic" discussion of SVO/Marriott - are you now saying that this wasn't OF afterall, and that this is an offer for an EOY IV at WKORV-N - correct?
> 
> Why would this offer be out-of-line with expecatations?  Based on WKORV IV prices - a price of $15K is about what I would expect.



Yes, it is not an OF that Iowa Rod is making an offer on.  I am not sure if he is making an offer on the IV or OV, but from the ads it looks like they have the same asking price.

I haven't been tracking WKORV-N resale prices, but it just seems to me that $15K is very low for a brand-spanking new resort that hasn't opened yet.  When WKORV opened, resales showed up a week later at about $38K for EY OV, so you'd hope that WKORV-N EOY would be about half of that price, but of course, there is WKORV inventory to compete with.  Do you know what WKORV-N EYs have actually sold for on the resale market?

I'd like to see the resorts "hold their value" (if there is such a thing when the developer doesn't actively, or even passively, exercise ROFR) because I own a week and have a vested interest.


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## Iowa Rod (Apr 5, 2007)

*another question*

Thanks for all of the replies. Fred told me that the prices for an island view in the North section on resale would be the same as the ocean view in the origional section. He actully has both listed. On the eoy 2 bed island view in the North section they countered to me with 18,000. There is an e bay add and he will take 17,000 for the same type of unit.
Now are my question's. Would I be better off with a 81,000 point 1 bed ocean view unit? There is one on e bay that the seller told me could be purchased for 17,800 but it is at the origional section. I would have about 14,900 more points evy other year. And is the new North section  in any way better then the origional section. What is a good price for one of these 1 bed units.
Thanks so much. 
Rod


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## KOR5Star (Apr 5, 2007)

ciscogizmo1 said:


> I hope your aunt wasn't trying for week 52 as most of those are fixed weeks just like at Westin.  Also, by looking a Marriott's calendar some week 51s are fixed too.


I don't have an aunt with timeshare.  My sister is the one owning Marriott.  The week she was going for was President's week in February.  Like me, she's got kids in school and must live and die with the school schedule.  

I don't want my kid to grow up, but dang!, I'll be glad when I'm not limited to those friggin' high demand weeks!!!


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## myip (Apr 5, 2007)

Here is the price just sold on Ebay - $15700 2bedroom EOY

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...MEWA:IT&viewitem=&item=320097400140&rd=1&rd=1


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## saluki (Apr 5, 2007)

myip said:


> Here is the price just sold on Ebay - $15700 2bedroom EOY
> 
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...MEWA:IT&viewitem=&item=320097400140&rd=1&rd=1



Yeah, but look at the seller's eBay feedback. I'm sure it limited the number of people willing to bid.


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## myip (Apr 5, 2007)

saluki said:


> Yeah, but look at the seller's eBay feedback. I'm sure it limited the number of people willing to bid.


It is great it limit # of people to bid.  You get lower price.  What is the risks if it close through an escrow....


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## Henry M. (Apr 5, 2007)

Iowa Rod said:


> Thanks for all of the replies. Fred told me that the prices for an island view in the North section on resale would be the same as the ocean view in the original section.
> Rod



The retail prices were indeed about the same. The last selling prices for WKORV OV were around $48,900, similar the WKORV-N IV prices, when they were available.

A 2BR unit will net you 148,100 StarOptions to exchange to other resorts, regardless of view. The 1BR will only get you 81,000 StarOptions.

I like WKORV. I haven't been to WKORV-N recently so I can't comment on which one is better from a room size/layout point of view. The way the IV are located at WKORV-N is much better than IV at WKORV. You probably won't go wrong at either location. I'd go for the best deal I can get on a 2BR either OV at WKORV or IV at WKORV-N.


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## Denise L (Apr 5, 2007)

Iowa Rod said:


> Thanks for all of the replies. Fred told me that the prices for an island view in the North section on resale would be the same as the ocean view in the origional section. He actully has both listed. On the eoy 2 bed island view in the North section they countered to me with 18,000. There is an e bay add and he will take 17,000 for the same type of unit.
> Now are my question's. Would I be better off with a 81,000 point 1 bed ocean view unit? There is one on e bay that the seller told me could be purchased for 17,800 but it is at the origional section. I would have about 14,900 more points evy other year. And is the new North section  in any way better then the origional section. What is a good price for one of these 1 bed units.
> Thanks so much.
> Rod



Things to consider:

MFs annually for a 1 bedroom are ~1200 or more?
MFs for a 2 bedroom are ~1500 divided by 2 (roughly) for an EOY

Will you be happy with a 1 bedroom in Maui? Will you ever need a 2 bedroom? Will 81K SOs get you to where you want to go?

I thought that 1 bedrooms were going for prices comparable to the 2 bedroom EOY?


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## ciscogizmo1 (Apr 5, 2007)

Sorry my post went off topic.  I didn't mean to that.  I'll go ahead and delete.  I apologize.


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## DeniseM (Apr 5, 2007)

Iowa Rod said:


> Thanks for all of the replies. Fred told me that the prices for an island view in the North section on resale would be the same as the ocean view in the origional section. He actully has both listed. On the eoy 2 bed island view in the North section they countered to me with 18,000. There is an e bay add and he will take 17,000 for the same type of unit.
> Now are my question's. Would I be better off with a 81,000 point 1 bed ocean view unit? There is one on e bay that the seller told me could be purchased for 17,800 but it is at the origional section. I would have about 14,900 more points evy other year. And is the new North section  in any way better then the origional section. What is a good price for one of these 1 bed units.
> Thanks so much.
> Rod



I would definitely go for an ocean view.  At the Westin, if you buy island  view, you are stuck with it.  For the most part, only elite owners (multiple week owners) get upgraded to better views.  At the WKORV ("old" resort) Island View usually means highway view.  I have heard that some island view units may be better at the new resort, but you know that some of the IV units are going to have crappy views.  When I'm in Hawaii I wanna see the OCEAN!  I'd spend a bit more for OV.


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## Denise L (Apr 5, 2007)

One more thing, I think 1 bedrooms are only available at the original WKORV? WKORV-N only sold 2 bedroom lockoffs, I believe.

You could also wait around for the WKORV-FN (further north) which won't have any studios but will have 3 bedrooms!


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## pharmgirl (Apr 5, 2007)

DeniseM said:


> I would definitely go for an ocean view.  At the Westin, if you buy island  view, you are stuck with it.  For the most part, only elite owners (multiple week owners) get upgraded to better views.  At the WKORV ("old" resort) Island View usually means highway view.  I have heard that some island view units may be better at the new resort, but you know that some of the IV units are going to have crappy views.  When I'm in Hawaii I wanna see the OCEAN!  I'd spend a bit more for OV.



And watch out if you make reservation less than 8 months before. With Westin even if you own an oceanview you may get island view, no guarantee, don't know till you check in.


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## DavidnRobin (Apr 6, 2007)

Iowa Rod said:


> Thanks for all of the replies. Fred told me that the prices for an island view in the North section on resale would be the same as the ocean view in the origional section. He actully has both listed. On the eoy 2 bed island view in the North section they countered to me with 18,000. There is an e bay add and he will take 17,000 for the same type of unit.
> Now are my question's. Would I be better off with a 81,000 point 1 bed ocean view unit? There is one on e bay that the seller told me could be purchased for 17,800 but it is at the origional section. I would have about 14,900 more points evy other year. And is the new North section  in any way better then the origional section. What is a good price for one of these 1 bed units.
> Thanks so much.
> Rod


I answered this a while back to someone else - they ended up buying a 1Bd OV at WKORV.  Depends if you want the LO studio (as in - do you want a studio with a kitchenette, and a sucky balcony at WKORV-N - or none at all at WKORV?)  This is an important consideration, and depends on your vacation needs. For us - we would did not want the studio side except for the WKORV OF - and had to accept it for our WPORV.  WKORV-N does not have a deeded 1Bd (either does WPORV), but WKORV-NN will as I understand.

~17K for the 1Bd WKORV - also, one good aspect of the LO is that you pay relatively less for it MF-wise.
(in comparing the MFs of the 2Bd LO to the 1Bd)

I am unclear what you mean about the 14.9K extra points EOY? [StarOptions ?]
You are buying resale - you don't get StarPoints - and the SOs that you get are 148.1K EOY - they are not split - perhaps I missed something.  Research more before you buy anything... (search past posts...ask questions)
The 2nd R of the RRR&R mantra.


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## KOR5Star (Apr 6, 2007)

califgal said:


> That's too bad about the lazy river!
> KOR5star..there's going to be 4 properties?  I got the brochure for  the third one.


Sorry for the delay.  I missed this question.

Yes, there will be four resorts.  Two on each side of that park next to WKORVN.  All four resorts will share resources.  

All will have pools, but no other pool slides are planned.  That might mean more tweens and teens in the pool at the original WKORV.  

I'm most concerned about the tennis courts.  There are only two.  They are already hard to get on in the morning (when I like to play) during high demand weeks... and that's with WKORVN still not open yet!


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## MON2REY (Apr 6, 2007)

KOR5Star,
Where did you hear that there would be 2 new complexes north of WKORVN?  When were there in July we were told that there will be 2 complexes but only the one just north of WKORVN would be Westin; the one further north (already under construction) was not Starwood.


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## Henry M. (Apr 6, 2007)

I believe there will only be three Starwood resorts:

- WKORV is completed and basically sold out, although Starwood sometimes gets inventory as people upgrade to WKORV-N. They have 2 BR Lock-offs or one bedroom units with various views.
- WKORV-N opens this year and is expected to be completed by the end of 2008 or maybe 2009. They only sell 2BR lock-off's.
- WKORV-Ho'omahua expansion is in the process of getting all its permits. They will sell 1, 2 and 3 BR units, no lock-offs. I'm sorry they won't have lock-offs because I like the flexibility of using the whole unit or just one part. I suppose those that want that can always buy two 1BR or a 1BR and a 2BR but the maintenance fees will be astronomical.

The fourth resort is an Intrawest whole-ownership condominium development called Honua Kai that is already under construction and almost sold out. They had a one-day auction a year or two ago for the first phase and all units sold out in one day! I have a friend that bought there. I think they sold the second phase last December. I'm not sure if any units are still available.

There are also two lots just south of WKOR available for construction of private homes. These are about an acre each and last year when I was there one was for sale for about $10 million.

This is the last beach area in West Maui (maybe all of Maui?) available for development.


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## Henry M. (Apr 6, 2007)

A while back I got some information on the final Starwood expansion that included a map of the various properties in this area. DeniseM was kind enough to host the scans I made on her web site at http://www.freewebs.com/denisetravels/newwkorvhoomahuapics.htm

You can see the proposed room layouts and other artist renderings there. Lot 1 is WKORV, Lot 2 WKORV-N, Lot 3 WKORV-Ho'omahua Expansion. Lot 4 is not a Starwood property.

There's an artist's rendering of the non-Starwood Honua-Kai project at http://www.honuakai.com/condo.html. For reference, to the left, on the beach, is the old Embassy Suites resort.


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## Iowa Rod (Apr 6, 2007)

Dave and Robin,  What I was refering to is if I purchased a 1 bed unit 81,000 star options every 2 years I would have 162,000 staroptions. I was told I could borrow from one year. So if I woudl have then I could have 162,000 star options in a yr. Which woule be 13,900 more staroptions over the same period as an eoy with 148,100. Dave I have been looking at all posts. I had planned to buy a Marriott I want to go not in the summer but usually in the 3rd week of March. My kids have baseball Little League and AAU and we are usually just left with August. March is still cold in Iowa so we love warm weather. That being said I was worried that I would not get the Marriott week I need. So I started to Look at Starwood. I need to get going ASAP as I want to make sure I can get a reservation for March of 2008. I had made a post about the new Cancun property as I was offered to me by a Starwood rep. Although its not Hawaii we love Cancun. Its just a 3.5 hr flight from DSM and usually its about half the cost. I do thank you for your time.
Rod


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## MON2REY (Apr 6, 2007)

Maybe I am misunderstanding you.  It is my understanding that a 1 BR EY is worth 81,000 star options and that an EOY would be worth half that yearly, or 81,000 every two years.  Therefore it would take you four years to earn the 162,000 you are seeking.  I seriously doubt that an EOY could borrow from two years out, but if you can, more power to you.


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## saluki (Apr 6, 2007)

IowaRod-

I think you are inquiring about buying a 1BR EY unit that would be worth 81000 StarPoints & then trying to borrow ahead the following year's points for a 148100 2BR reservation (leaving 13900 StarPoints). Is that right?

It is my understanding (not 100% sure on this) that you can borrrow your next year's StarOptions but can only make a reservation at the 90 day mark if using borrowed StarOptions. This would not be a good recipe for trying to reserve a specific spring break week.


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## Iowa Rod (Apr 6, 2007)

Saluki,  Your correct. Thanks for letting me know about that 90 day rule.
Rod


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## DavidnRobin (Apr 6, 2007)

Iowa Rod said:


> Dave and Robin,  What I was refering to is if I purchased a 1 bed unit 81,000 star options every 2 years I would have 162,000 staroptions. I was told I could borrow from one year. So if I woudl have then I could have 162,000 star options in a yr. Which woule be 13,900 more staroptions over the same period as an eoy with 148,100. Dave I have been looking at all posts. I had planned to buy a Marriott I want to go not in the summer but usually in the 3rd week of March. My kids have baseball Little League and AAU and we are usually just left with August. March is still cold in Iowa so we love warm weather. That being said I was worried that I would not get the Marriott week I need. So I started to Look at Starwood. I need to get going ASAP as I want to make sure I can get a reservation for March of 2008. I had made a post about the new Cancun property as I was offered to me by a Starwood rep. Although its not Hawaii we love Cancun. Its just a 3.5 hr flight from DSM and usually its about half the cost. I do thank you for your time.
> Rod



Be careful with this assumption in buying resale - I am not sure how it works with resale in borrowing SOs (whether it is even possible with resale).  One thing that cannot be done with a resale purchase is combining SOs - they can only be split - this is why (IMO) that you should buy at least 81K resale SOs no matter what.

With the increase in Cancun SOs - this does make this property alot more desirable (although I think Princeville will hold it's value better than Cancun - but that is my opinion - and hope - since we bought there).

The main thing is to buy where you plan to go - whether or not it is resale. I mentioned the 81K SOs at WKORV (1Bd) because the LO studio can possible be more hassle than it is worth - but if you have kids that you feel can be safe in their own studio - then the LO offers benefit. Again, it comes down to your vacation priorities - and of course - cost.  It is important to consider these.  I personally would recommend buying resale - and buying Mandatory.

If you can go 'off-season' (the low occupancy months) then exchanging into SVN resorts will be easy (except St John, and likely Princeville) - then buy resale Mandatory (Kierland resale is a good buy when you look at the total package - IMO).  

If you can't go off-season, then certainly buy where you want to go (even if you decide to buy from SVO) - but there is alot of money to be saved resale.  If you buy resale - and later you decide the SVO/SVN system works well - then buy from SVO and requal your resale.  I would not recommend buying SVO Voluntary resale (except maybe Princeville) unless you have plans to get to 5* Elite - and you are far from that.

Regardless - be patient - TSs are like buses - if you miss one - another will soon come by.  If we were more patient with our first TS (resale WKORV OF) we would have saved $5K, but at least we bought resale (ty TUG).


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## DavidnRobin (Apr 6, 2007)

Another thing - if you plan to buy Cancum from SVO - consider being patient - going to Kierland on a TS tour package (I can get you reference info) - go thru the TS spiel there - and get the terms agreed to - BUT DON'T SIGN - at the exit interview you will get offered the Explorer Package - use this to buy Cancun - that essentially gives you 80K additional StarPoints for $100.

I am not sure of the SP incentives they offer there - but certainly a Tugger probably knows - or I can give you someone to call at WKV (they would probably tell you)


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## duke (Apr 6, 2007)

DavidnRobin said:


> Another thing - if you plan to buy Cancum from SVO - consider being patient - going to Kierland on a TS tour package (I can get you reference info) - go thru the TS spiel there - and get the terms agreed to - BUT DON'T SIGN - at the exit interview you will get offered the Explorer Package - use this to buy Cancun - that essentially gives you 80K additional StarPoints for $100.
> 
> I am not sure of the SP incentives they offer there - but certainly a Tugger probably knows - or I can give you someone to call at WKV (they would probably tell you)




I completely agree with David except that I recommend that you but RESALE VOLUNTARY and REQUALIFY THE VOLUNTARY.  This works when you plan on buying a Developer and need to requalify a resale.  You will save 50% and be closer to the Five * Elite that is the goal.


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## KOR5Star (Apr 7, 2007)

emuyshondt said:


> A while back I got some information on the final Starwood expansion that included a map of the various properties in this area. DeniseM was kind enough to host the scans I made on her web site at http://www.freewebs.com/denisetravels/newwkorvhoomahuapics.htm
> 
> You can see the proposed room layouts and other artist renderings there. Lot 1 is WKORV, Lot 2 WKORV-N, Lot 3 WKORV-Ho'omahua Expansion. Lot 4 is not a Starwood property.
> 
> There's an artist's rendering of the non-Starwood Honua-Kai project at http://www.honuakai.com/condo.html. For reference, to the left, on the beach, is the old Embassy Suites resort.


I knew that Marriott and Starwood were at least two of the properties bidding on the land West of the park.  I also knew that Starwood won.

When I recieved the brochure from Starwood (the one you scanned and posted), I just assumed all four properties were being developed by Starwood.


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## pointsjunkie (Apr 7, 2007)

*Wmh Or Sdo?*

Would i be better off buying a l/o at wmh plat, since it is voluntary does it maintain the 148,100 so's when it is transferred as a resale. at sdo a l/o plat is valuted at 81,000 so's. do i have my facts straight? i want to purchase to requalify to get to 5*.


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## grgs (Apr 7, 2007)

pointsjunkie said:


> Would i be better off buying a l/o at wmh plat, since it is voluntary does it maintain the 148,100 so's when it is transferred as a resale. at sdo a l/o plat is valuted at 81,000 so's. do i have my facts straight? i want to purchase to requalify to get to 5*.



I guess if the goal is 5*, then WMH plat is the better move--try to get as many options in one transaction as possible.  WMH plat will be significantly more expensive--at least twice as much, and with much higher m.f. as well.  So I would only do it if you need 148,100 options.

Glorian


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