# "New Brands and New Opportunities..."



## ljmiii (Sep 4, 2018)

Just got an email from MVCI (NOT Marriott) touting the "New Brands and Opportunities" resulting from the ILG merger that are now available to me as a Destinations Point owner.

I was a little surprised...I didn't think ANYTHING would happen this fast. And of course, not a single opportunity in the long email related to the ILG merger - it was all stuff that resulted from Marriott's buying Starwood.  Good for a laugh I guess.


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## fluke (Sep 4, 2018)

I think it is interesting that there was no mention of Hyatt Vacation Club or any other inventory ILG owned.


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## StevenTing (Sep 4, 2018)

Here's the content of the email I received.
​


> You've always known that Marriott Vacation Club has offered its Owners memorable and lasting vacations year after year. As you may have heard, Marriott Vacations Worldwide℠, with its three outstanding brands: Marriott Vacation Club®, The Ritz-Carlton Destination Club® and Grand Residences by Marriott®, has recently acquired ILG, the parent company of the developer and operator of Sheraton® Vacation Club, Westin® Vacation Club and St. Regis® Residence Club. This is an exciting time as we grow our brands and we want to share this excitement by offering expanded opportunities to our valued Owners.
> 
> *UPGRADED MARRIOTT REWARDS® STATUS*
> As a benefit of being a member of the Marriott Vacation Club Destinations® Exchange program, you were upgraded to Platinum Elite status in the Marriott Rewards program. We're pleased to announce that we have upgraded your current Platinum Elite Marriott Rewards status even higher to the newly created Platinum Premier Elite level.1 The benefits just got better, and with your new status, you'll enjoy these outstanding features:​Complimentary In-Room Internet Access
> ...


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## StevenTing (Sep 4, 2018)

fluke said:


> I think it is interesting that there was *no mention of Hyatt Vacation Club* or any other inventory ILG owned.



I noticed that as well.  I wonder if this is indication that they plan to sell the property.


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## bazzap (Sep 4, 2018)

StevenTing said:


> I noticed that as well.  I wonder if this is indication that they plan to sell the property.


I always thought this was the most likely end result.


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## Old Hickory (Sep 4, 2018)

I read the email as "Nothing Has Changed" which for most people means it's a huge win (for now).


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## magicjourney (Sep 4, 2018)

The email I received this morning from Hyatt does acknowledge the merger though:
In recent months, ILG  ̶  the licensee of the Hyatt Residence Club brand  ̶  announced its plans to combine with Marriott Vacations Worldwide to create a leading global provider of premier vacation experiences. 

I am pleased to share that the transaction is complete. The combined company licenses several of the most coveted lifestyle vacation ownership brands, including Hyatt Residence Club under license from an affiliate of Hyatt Hotels, and other prestigious brands. 

We’re excited about the future of Hyatt Residence Club and working with Hyatt. Our goals remain consistent: to provide the highest-quality vacation experiences synonymous with the Hyatt brand and greatest flexibility for our valued Owners.

To view a list of frequently asked questions, please visit hyattresidenceclub.com.


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## TravelTime (Sep 4, 2018)

The email to Hyatt owners stresses the licensee issue quite a bit. Another possibility is that Marriott could re-brand the Hyatt properties under Marriott Vacation Club and get rid of the Hyatt brand license. Is there anything that would keep them from doing this?


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## StevenTing (Sep 4, 2018)

TravelTime said:


> The email to Hyatt owners stresses the licensee issue quite a bit. Another possibility is that Marriott could re-brand the Hyatt properties under Marriott Vacation Club and get rid of the Hyatt brand license. Is there anything that would keep them from doing this?



If they did this, they would destroy a lot of goodwill.  The Hyatt name has value and to just rebrand would cause some loss of value.  I would consider Hyatt more luxury than Marriott so to me, there would be loss of value, if I was a shareholder.


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## TravelTime (Sep 4, 2018)

StevenTing said:


> If they did this, they would destroy a lot of goodwill.  The Hyatt name has value and to just rebrand would cause some loss of value.  I would consider Hyatt more luxury than Marriott so to me, there would be loss of value, if I was a shareholder.



Not necessarily. If they think Hyatt is more upscale than Marriott, they could rebrand under Westin or any of the more upscale brands. I was just speculating since Marriott and Hyatt are competitors and the email to Hyatt owners made such a big deal about the licensing issue. It is almost like MVC is purposely trying to stress with Hyatt owners that the Hyatt brand is only a license. Then in everyone else’s email, Hyatt is not mentioned at all. I suspect they will either sell Hyatt or rebrand. I personally think merging Hyatt into the overall MVC system will create more shareholder value.


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## StevenTing (Sep 4, 2018)

Maybe I'm reading into things but I find it interesting that the Hyatt logo is on the far right and separated by a pipe.  Eventually we'll know but now we can just speculate.


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## TravelTime (Sep 4, 2018)

StevenTing said:


> Maybe I'm reading into things but I find it interesting that the Hyatt logo is on the far right and separated by a pipe.  Eventually we'll know but now we can just speculate.



That is very interesting. The message seems loud and clear that there is a different plan for Hyatt Residence Club than with the rest of the properties.


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## TravelTime (Sep 4, 2018)

This is the email I received from Vistana. No mention of Hyatt. It has a very different tone than the email Hyatt sent to their owners. Vistana is already offering MVC benefits to its owners. That was a surprise to read.

Dear Owner,

In recent months, ILG — the parent company of Vistana Signature Experiences — announced its plans to combine with Marriott Vacations Worldwide to create a leading global provider of premier vacation experiences.  

The combined company brings together several of the most coveted lifestyle vacation ownership brands under a single entity, including Sheraton Vacation Club, Westin Vacation Club, Marriott Vacation Club, Grand Residences by Marriott, St. Regis Residence Club and The Ritz-Carlton Destination Club, providing an unparalleled collection of world-class vacation ownership resorts and services. 

I am pleased to share that the transaction is complete. Through this combination, we are excited to introduce new opportunities for Owners.


*Owners in the Vistana Signature Network can now use their ownership to access Marriott hotels and resorts worldwide through the SPG program. *

_Previously, hotel loyalty points received in connection with your vacation ownership were only eligible to be used at SPG-branded hotels. Now, you have even more choices at over 6,500 hotels and resorts across 29 unique brands in 127 countries, including Marriott-branded hotels — all while continuing to receive preferred status recognition as a Gold Elite member in the SPG program._

*Receive expanded and enhanced discounts at Sheraton Vacation Club, Westin Vacation Club, and Marriott Vacation Club resorts.*

_All Owners will now receive 25% off available nightly rental rates, as well as exclusive discounts on certain food, beverage and activities at participating outlets, at Sheraton Vacation Club, Westin Vacation Club, and Marriott Vacation Club resorts, subject to applicable terms and conditions. To make a reservation or learn more, log in to vistana.com and select Owner Exclusives on your Owner Dashboard. Additional information may be provided at time of check-in._


We are extremely excited about the future. We want to assure you that this is only the beginning as we continue to work hard to determine whether additional benefits and services could potentially be made available in the future from our newly combined company. Our goals remain consistent: to provide the highest-quality vacation experiences and greatest flexibility for our valued Owners. 

To view a list of frequently asked questions, please visit *vistana.com/news*. For the latest news regarding SPG and Marriott Rewards, visit *members.marriott.com*.

Best regards,




Steve Weisz 
President and Chief Executive Officer 
Marriott Vacations Worldwide Corporation 

_Vistana Owners who also own with Marriott Vacation Club will receive separate announcement communications specific to their ownership._


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## dioxide45 (Sep 4, 2018)

So no real changes than we already knew. The change for us from Gold Elite Status to Platinum Elite was already known and was a result of the change in Elite levels in the Marriott Reward system. The other benefits really aren't anything drastic. Providing the owners discounts across brands really doesn't change anyone's ownership or provide them additional internal exchange possibilities between the different systems. If I own at a Marriott but stay at a Westin timeshare, I get a perhaps a 10% discount on food and beverage. Whoop. Most times you get that if you are exchanging in anyway.


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## TravelTime (Sep 4, 2018)

The point for me is they are already starting to integrate Vistana into MVC. But it appears no such benefits were offered to Hyatt owners and the email to Hyatt owners was not a similarly friendly communication.

I am sure there will be more changes on the way.`


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## scpoidog (Sep 4, 2018)

dioxide45 said:


> So no real changes than we already knew. The change for us from Gold Elite Status to Platinum Elite was already known and was a result of the change in Elite levels in the Marriott Reward system. The other benefits really aren't anything drastic. Providing the owners discounts across brands really doesn't change anyone's ownership or provide them additional internal exchange possibilities between the different systems. If I own at a Marriott but stay at a Westin timeshare, I get a perhaps a 10% discount on food and beverage. Whoop. Most times you get that if you are exchanging in anyway.


Dumb question here, but was everyone already given some level of MR status prior to the merger?


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## dioxide45 (Sep 4, 2018)

scpoidog said:


> Dumb question here, but was everyone already given some level of MR status prior to the merger?


Yes, if you were a DC point owner or enrolled owner and were Select level or above.


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## tschwa2 (Sep 4, 2018)

With Vistana no automatic status with resales deeded weeks or SVN member.  Retail SVN members up through 4 star have gold status and 5 star elite gets platinum.  Marriott non enrolled weeks owners get no automatic status.


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## lwhitt (Sep 4, 2018)

ljmiii said:


> Just got an email from MVCI (NOT Marriott) touting the "New Brands and Opportunities" resulting from the ILG merger that are now available to me as a Destinations Point owner.
> 
> I was a little surprised...I didn't think ANYTHING would happen this fast. And of course, not a single opportunity in the long email related to the ILG merger - it was all stuff that resulted from Marriott's buying Starwood.  Good for a laugh I guess.




I got the same email I guess which starts off with the following:

"You've always known that Marriott Vacation Club has offered its Owners memorable and lasting vacations year after year. As you may have heard, Marriott Vacations Worldwide℠, with its three outstanding brands: Marriott Vacation Club®, The Ritz-Carlton Destination Club® and Grand Residences by Marriott®, has recently acquired ILG, the parent company of the developer and operator of Sheraton® Vacation Club, Westin® Vacation Club and St. Regis® Residence Club. This is an exciting time as we grow our brands and we want to share this excitement by offering expanded opportunities to our valued Owners.
*UPGRADED MARRIOTT REWARDS® STATUS*
As a member of the Marriott Vacation Club Destinations Exchange Program, *we're pleased to announce that with our expansion, we will upgrade your Marriott Rewards membership to the Gold Elite status level starting February 2019. *You'll soon enjoy these outstanding features from your new Marriott Rewards status: etc etc......"

Weird because we were already Gold Elite before the merger and have been for a few years now.

So Gold Elite would not even be an upgrade.

After the Marriott/Starwood merger was official, I logged into our Marriott Rewards account on August 19, 2018 and saw that as rumored, we now were MR Platinum Elite.

Still shows Platinum Elite now when I  Iog in to see all of my upcoming reservations.

Anybody else have a discrepancy between the email and what your MR account updated to post merger?


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## scpoidog (Sep 5, 2018)

lwhitt said:


> I got the same email I guess which starts off with the following:
> 
> "You've always known that Marriott Vacation Club has offered its Owners memorable and lasting vacations year after year. As you may have heard, Marriott Vacations Worldwide℠, with its three outstanding brands: Marriott Vacation Club®, The Ritz-Carlton Destination Club® and Grand Residences by Marriott®, has recently acquired ILG, the parent company of the developer and operator of Sheraton® Vacation Club, Westin® Vacation Club and St. Regis® Residence Club. This is an exciting time as we grow our brands and we want to share this excitement by offering expanded opportunities to our valued Owners.
> *UPGRADED MARRIOTT REWARDS® STATUS*
> ...



I received the same message.  I already had Platinum status with MR, so that’s why i never realized that they gave you Gold status at the Select level.

I did think it was odd that they offered me Gold status, but figured that one database isn’t talking to the other database. 

So now I have this gold status plus gold status for the new SPG credit card that I can’t use.  First world problems.


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## scpoidog (Sep 5, 2018)

dioxide45 said:


> Yes, if you were a DC point owner or enrolled owner and were Select level or above.


Thanks.


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## dioxide45 (Sep 5, 2018)

lwhitt said:


> I got the same email I guess which starts off with the following:
> 
> "You've always known that Marriott Vacation Club has offered its Owners memorable and lasting vacations year after year. As you may have heard, Marriott Vacations Worldwide℠, with its three outstanding brands: Marriott Vacation Club®, The Ritz-Carlton Destination Club® and Grand Residences by Marriott®, has recently acquired ILG, the parent company of the developer and operator of Sheraton® Vacation Club, Westin® Vacation Club and St. Regis® Residence Club. This is an exciting time as we grow our brands and we want to share this excitement by offering expanded opportunities to our valued Owners.
> *UPGRADED MARRIOTT REWARDS® STATUS*
> ...


If you earned a higher status through some other means, such as night stayed or credit card spend, then you get the higher status. What is your owner level in DC? How many trust and enrolled points do you have in total?


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## Old Hickory (Sep 5, 2018)

dioxide45 said:


> Yes, if you were a DC point owner or enrolled owner and were Select level or above.


Select level?  Never heard of that.


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## Fasttr (Sep 5, 2018)

Old Hickory said:


> Select level?  Never heard of that.


See link below for the Owner Benefit tiers as they are currently defined in the Destinations Club.  
https://www.marriottvacationsworldwide.com/common/cms/mvcau/pdfs/benefits-at-a-glance-chart-US.pdf


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## Swice (Sep 5, 2018)

TravelTime said:


> That is very interesting. The message seems loud and clear that there is a different plan for Hyatt Residence Club than with the rest of the properties.



I'm assuming communication with Hyatt is different because of the Marriott/Starwood HOTEL merger.    Hyatt is not part of the combined HOTEL company...    so the Marriott TIMESHARE company can't lump Hyatt timeshares with all of the other TIMESHARE brands that are now included on the HOTEL reservation/point system.


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## TravelTime (Sep 5, 2018)

I was thrilled to get the email stating my account is being upgraded to Platinum Premier Elite since I am Presidential with MVC. However, when I log into Marriott.com, my account has not yet been upgraded. I am staying at a Marriott right now so I want to get the proper benefits, although I booked third party because I got cheaper rates so I probably won’t get the rewards bonus of 50% or 75%. Have other people’s Marriott Rewards account already been updated after getting this email this week?


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## bazzap (Sep 5, 2018)

TravelTime said:


> I was thrilled to get the email stating my account is being upgraded to Platinum Premier Elite since I am Presidential with MVC. However, when I log into Marriott.com, my account has not yet been upgraded. I am staying at a Marriott right now so I want to get the proper benefits, although I booked third party because I got cheaper rates so I probably won’t get the rewards bonus of 50% or 75%. Have other people’s Marriott Rewards account already been updated after getting this email this week?


Yes, both my wife’s account and my own have been updated on the website and app.
Even if you don’t automatically get your correct bonus... though, you should be able to have it retospectively applied.


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## BocaBoy (Sep 5, 2018)

TravelTime said:


> ......I booked third party because I got cheaper rates so I probably won’t get the rewards bonus of 50% or 75%.


I don't think you get any base points for the room rate on a third party booking, only for incidentals charged to your room.  For those, you should get points plus the 50% or 75% bonus.


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## Fairwinds (Sep 5, 2018)

StevenTing said:


> If they did this, they would destroy a lot of goodwill.  The Hyatt name has value and to just rebrand would cause some loss of value.  I would consider Hyatt more luxury than Marriott so to me, there would be loss of value, if I was a shareholder.



If more luxury could they could rebrand a GRC ( as suggested by Traveltime). Or does that require quarter share. Either way, Marriott has incorporated other luxury brands, ostensibly causing loss of value and much to the consternation of owners.

Here is where my wishful thinking kicks in. Keep as Hyatt and let owners participate in Hyatt program as before but link to MVC points exchange as they did with MVC Asia Pacific club and offer weeks trading under the Fee inclusive corporate account.


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## nuwermj (Sep 5, 2018)

StevenTing said:


> I wonder if this [no mention of Hyatt] is indication that they plan to sell the property.



I wonder if Marriott could re-brand the Hyatt Residence Club resorts. I would assume ILG owned the developer rights and management contracts, and licensed the name from Hyatt. Is there any reason Marriott can't switch the brand?

Edit: Sorry. I see @TravelTime already suggested this possibility.


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## Fairwinds (Sep 5, 2018)

TravelTime said:


> although I booked third party because I got cheaper rates



I thought Marriott guaranteed best rates on their website.


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## Steve Fatula (Sep 5, 2018)

Fairwinds said:


> I thought Marriott guaranteed best rates on their website.



Me too, I wonder how you claim it though. Probably have to call in?


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## bazzap (Sep 5, 2018)

Fairwinds said:


> I thought Marriott guaranteed best rates on their website.


What they offer is a “Best Rate Guarantee”
So if you book on their website and then find a lower price third party (with some exceptions), you can claim back the difference
https://www.marriott.co.uk/help/hotel-price-faqs.mi


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## TravelTime (Sep 5, 2018)

Good point. I will need to call them and ask them to credit the bonus points. Also, they still have not upgraded my account to Platinum Premier. It seems like everyone else has been upgraded already.


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## TravelTime (Sep 5, 2018)

They also did not give me bonus points when I bought the Marbella week direct from them. I thought we got bonus points if we charge any Marriott purchases on the Marriott Rewards credit card?


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## TravelTime (Sep 5, 2018)

Fairwinds said:


> If more luxury could they could rebrand a GRC ( as suggested by Traveltime). Or does that require quarter share. Either way, Marriott has incorporated other luxury brands, ostensibly causing loss of value and much to the consternation of owners.
> 
> Here is where my wishful thinking kicks in. Keep as Hyatt and let owners participate in Hyatt program as before but link to MVC points exchange as they did with MVC Asia Pacific club and offer weeks trading under the Fee inclusive corporate account.



I do not think Marriott’s luxury brands have lost any value just because Marriott purchased them. Ritz Carlton is still high end. I think what happened is the people who bought Ritz Carlton fractional lost value and blamed Marriott. However, all high end fractionals lose value after purchase.

I think Tuggers see the world differently than regular consumers because we know all the details.

Many corporations own luxury brands and regular brands. Look at the car companies and cruise ship companies. Consumers do understand that certain brands are upscale but they usually could care less who the parent company is. For example, Carnival is low end yet they own some of the most luxurious cruise brands on the market. No one cares really as long as the parent company maintains the quality of the luxury brands.

Another thing is I do not think Hyatt is high end. Hyatt, Marriott and Westin are all the same to me. Hyatt does have some higher end versions using the Hyatt name like Park Hyatt and Grand Hyatt. But wouldn’t those be equivalent to JW Marriott?


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## Steve Fatula (Sep 5, 2018)

TravelTime said:


> They also did not give me bonus points when I bought the Marbella week direct from them. I thought we got bonus points if we charge any Marriott purchases on the Marriott Rewards credit card?



I got the bonus for the purchase. Of course, mine was before the new stuff happened, but it was also with the old card (got 5x).


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## TravelTime (Sep 5, 2018)

Steve Fatula said:


> I got the bonus for the purchase. Of course, mine was before the new stuff happened, but it was also with the old card (got 5x).



Okay I need to check on that too. I am having really bad luck with Marriott. I am checking out early and going home from this trip. The front desk promised to move me to a suite tomorrow. Now they are denying they said that and asking me to pay for the suite. Unfortunately I paid the third party agent in full for 5 nights and I am only staying for 3 nights. I can’t get a refund now.


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## Fairwinds (Sep 5, 2018)

TravelTime said:


> I do not think Marriott’s luxury brands have lost any value just because Marriott purchased them. Ritz Carlton is still high end. I think what happened is the people who bought Ritz Carlton fractional lost value and blamed Marriott. However, all high end fractionals lose value after purchase.
> 
> Agreed


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## dioxide45 (Sep 5, 2018)

nuwermj said:


> I wonder if Marriott could re-brand the Hyatt Residence Club resorts. I would assume ILG owned the developer rights and management contracts, and licensed the name from Hyatt. Is there any reason Marriott can't switch the brand?
> 
> Edit: Sorry. I see @TravelTime already suggested this possibility.


It might not be that easy. There may be reasons they can't just switch. Hyatt makes a nice fee based income from the arrangement between them and ILG. While Hyatt may be able to walk away, it might cost MVC a lot of money to do so. Think like buying yourself out of a real estate lease. Hyatt wants that pure profit fee income.


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## Sapper (Sep 5, 2018)

dioxide45 said:


> It might not be that easy. There may be reasons they can't just switch. Hyatt makes a nice fee based income from the arrangement between them and ILG. While Hyatt may be able to walk away, it might cost MVC a lot of money to do so. Thing like buying yourself out of a real estate lease. Hyatt wants that pure profit fee income.



Agree, as long as the Hyatt brand image is maintained (which I'm sure is in the contract they made with ILG), then there is little, if any, down side for Hyatt. Meanwhile, the up side is pure profit.


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## Sapper (Sep 5, 2018)

StevenTing said:


> Maybe I'm reading into things but I find it interesting that the Hyatt logo is on the far right and separated by a pipe.  Eventually we'll know but now we can just speculate.



From the looks of that image, I'd say right now they will bring all brands to the left into some kind of use agreement (already seeing some of that discussion here, but can't tell if that is being confused with the hotel merger stuff), while continuing to manage Hyatt separately in order to give them time to figure out what to do with it.


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## TravelTime (Sep 5, 2018)

Sapper said:


> Agree, as long as the Hyatt brand image is maintained (which I'm sure is in the contract they made with ILG), then there is little, if any, down side for Hyatt. Meanwhile, the up side is pure profit.



Yes that is all true. I am assuming any changes would need to be longer term, when existing contracts expire. Unless they decide to sell Hyatt. But the Hyatt timeshare has some great locations that MVC and Vistana do not have. Also Hyatt Kaanapali is probably the jewel among the Hyatt properties they acquired and people always want to go to Maui. It sells out really fast anytime of the year so MVC would be smart to keep Hyatt Maui (whether they call it Hyatt or not). It would give Marriott a bunch of new timeshare rooms in Maui. I have heard that it is impossible to build new resorts in Maui now.


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## mjm1 (Sep 5, 2018)

TravelTime said:


> ...............
> 
> Another thing is I do not think Hyatt is high end. Hyatt, Marriott and Westin are all the same to me. Hyatt does have some higher end versions using the Hyatt name like Park Hyatt and Grand Hyatt. But wouldn’t those be equivalent to JW Marriott?



This is such a personal preference, but I agree with you. With regard to the timeshare resorts, we have only seen HRC Highlands Inn, High Sierra and Piñon Pointe. Personally we prefer the Marriott timeshares as far as their feel and layout. From what I recall some who like Hyatt refer to each resort feeling different and fitting with the location. I can see that point of view. But as far as everything else, the quality of Marriott and Vistana properties is right there with them if not a bit higher. Again, personal preference.

One other that I forgot is the HRC on Maui. We thought that was much nicer than the other Hyatt properties we have visited. 

Best regards.

Mike


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## DannyTS (Sep 5, 2018)

StevenTing said:


> If they did this, they would destroy a lot of goodwill.  The Hyatt name has value and to just rebrand would cause some loss of value.  I would consider Hyatt more luxury than Marriott so to me, there would be loss of value, if I was a shareholder.


 
If ILG was paying a lot of money for the Hyatt brand and the contract is not airtight, MVC would rebrand Hyatt to Westin or Marriott. Given the  low resale prices current Hyatt owners would have a hard time to litigate any lost of value. And if they do not like it, what are they going to do? In any case, I think the Hyatt owners would not be unhappy for long if they were offered enrollment in the DC for almost free which may still save Marriott a ton of money.


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## dioxide45 (Sep 5, 2018)

DannyTS said:


> If ILG was paying a lot of money for the Hyatt brand and the contract is not airtight, MVC would rebrand Hyatt to Westin or Marriott. Given the  low resale prices current Hyatt owners would have a hard time to litigate any lost of value. And if they do not like it, what are they going to do? In any case, I think the Hyatt owners would not be unhappy for long if they were offered enrollment in the DC for almost free which may still save Marriott a ton of money.


The problem is that so few people actually take advantage of enrollment, especially when there is any fee involved. Still to this point, I doubt that Marriott has over a 50% enrollment rate. It may be possible given the recent rash of free enrollment offers and reduced prices, but there are still a lot of people out there that aren't enrolled and don't want to spend more money on something they already like using. I suspect that it is possible that Hyatt could dump MVC as a management company if they try to rebrand, like several of the Ritz properties did.


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## TravelTime (Sep 5, 2018)

dioxide45 said:


> The problem is that so few people actually take advantage of enrollment, especially when there is any fee involved. Still to this point, I doubt that Marriott has over a 50% enrollment rate. It may be possible given the recent rash of free enrollment offers and reduced prices, but there are still a lot of people out there that aren't enrolled and don't want to spend more money on something they already like using. I suspect that it is possible that Hyatt could dump MVC as a management company if they try to rebrand, like several of the Ritz properties did.



I am curious about the history of Ritz Carlton timeshares and why only 5 are part of MVC. How did the others not get included in MVC?


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## Fasttr (Sep 5, 2018)

TravelTime said:


> I am curious about the history of Ritz Carlton timeshares and why only 5 are part of MVC. How did the others not get included in MVC?


Here is how at least 1 voted MVC out....  https://tugbbs.com/forums/index.php?threads/jupiter-leaving-ritz-carlton-club.209211/


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## TravelTime (Sep 5, 2018)

Fasttr said:


> Here is how at least 1 voted MVC out....  https://tugbbs.com/forums/index.php?threads/jupiter-leaving-ritz-carlton-club.209211/



From scanning this thread, it sounds like the Ritz Carlton Residence Club was a financial drain on Marriott Vacation Club because of so much unsold inventory. I think there must be more to the story about why MVC has 5 Ritz Carlton Residence Clubs where we can use DPs and all the other RC Residence Clubs are separate.

This does a better job of explaining why the Ritz Carlton fractional value went down: the Great Recession. https://www.sherpareport.com/destination-clubs/ritz-carlton-club-growth-0909.html


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## dioxide45 (Sep 5, 2018)

TravelTime said:


> From scanning this thread, it sounds like the Ritz Carlton Residence Club was a financial drain on Marriott Vacation Club because of so much unsold inventory. I think there must be more to the story about why MVC has 5 Ritz Carlton Residence Clubs where we can use DPs and all the other RC Residence Clubs are separate.
> 
> This does a better job of explaining why the Ritz Carlton fractional value went down: the Great Recession. https://www.sherpareport.com/destination-clubs/ritz-carlton-club-growth-0909.html


I don't think that anyone is disputing why the values dropped, except perhaps the owners at RCDC and MVCI. The issue is that the owners didn't like what happened, however it happened, and they opted to change management companies. It didn't matter who was right and who was wrong.


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## Sapper (Sep 6, 2018)

Fasttr said:


> Here is how at least 1 voted MVC out....  https://tugbbs.com/forums/index.php?threads/jupiter-leaving-ritz-carlton-club.209211/



Interesting read. Thanks.


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## TravelTime (Sep 6, 2018)

dioxide45 said:


> I don't think that anyone is disputing why the values dropped, except perhaps the owners at RCRC and MVCI. The issue is that the owners didn't like what happened, however it happened, and they opted to change management companies. It didn't matter who was right and who was wrong.



Yes, that is true.


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## TravelTime (Sep 6, 2018)

I think I am confusing the Ritz Carlton Destination Club, which includes 5 properties and can be traded using MVC DPs, and the Ritz Carlton Residences. 

http://www.ritzcarlton.com/en/residences

https://ritzcarltonclub.com/

Does anyone know the difference between these two groups? I am wondering why there are 5 under the MVC umbrella and the others are under the Ritz Carlton hotel umbrella?


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## jeepie (Sep 6, 2018)

TravelTime said:


> I think I am confusing the Ritz Carlton Destination Club, which includes 5 properties and can be traded using MVC DPs, and the Ritz Carlton Residences.
> 
> http://www.ritzcarlton.com/en/residences
> 
> ...


I’ll take a stab. 
Residences are full ownership, RCDC are fractional (with some inventory accessible with MVC DPs). Cheers.


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## Fasttr (Sep 6, 2018)

jeepie said:


> I’ll take a stab.
> Residences are full ownership, RCDC are fractional (with some inventory accessible with MVC DPs). Cheers.


How about The Ritz-Carlton Club® and Residences, San Francisco which has "and Residences" in the name and bookable via MVC points.  Is that a combo of both??


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## TravelTime (Sep 6, 2018)

jeepie said:


> I’ll take a stab.
> Residences are full ownership, RCDC are fractional (with some inventory accessible with MVC DPs). Cheers.



I think this might be it. I think there is separate inventory for the fractionals/time share that Marriott controls. The whole ownership condos / full residences must be managed by the Ritz Hotel. They are two different animals since a whole ownership is like a regular condo except these are based in the Ritz Hotels. I suspect the problem with the decline in value is primarily with the fractionals. I do not think fractionals retain their value. I see many for sale at low prices from various luxury brands. The Four Seasons fractional owners also complained about the drop in value. There are many other fractionals exchanging through Elite Alliance and other luxury exchange companies for minimal amounts. I suspect the whole residences / full ownership condos have done pretty very well, depending on the market where they are located, because these would follow the real estate market trend. They are truly real estate where as fractionals sort of aren’t. They are fancy timeshares worth 3-4 weeks, on average, with accompanying maintenance fees. However, one could argue a condo is a 52 week timeshare, right? The fractionals probably follow the timeshare trend of being nearly worthless after purchase. I suspect it has nothing to do with MVC at all but the fractional owners need to blame someone to try to get their money back. Many people like owning a condo in a hotel where they can access all amenities and feel safe when they leave, especially if the Ritz offers a lot of homeowner amenities, which I assume they would for full owners. I also noticed that Ritz Carlton Lake Tahoe has full residences that are wholly owned and not accessible through MVC as well as the separate fractionals/timeshare units that we can rent with DPs.


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## lwhitt (Sep 6, 2018)

scpoidog said:


> I received the same message.  I already had Platinum status with MR, so that’s why i never realized that they gave you Gold status at the Select level.
> 
> I did think it was odd that they offered me Gold status, but figured that one database isn’t talking to the other database.
> 
> So now I have this gold status plus gold status for the new SPG credit card that I can’t use.  First world problems.



So you said you were MR Platinum Elite but got this same email saying that you are MR Gold Elite?

So you have a discrepancy when it comes to this as well?


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## lwhitt (Sep 6, 2018)

dioxide45 said:


> If you earned a higher status through some other means, such as night stayed or credit card spend, then you get the higher status. What is your owner level in DC? How many trust and enrolled points do you have in total?




Forgive me...I am not as up on my knowledge as you all are here....hence the reason I joined TUGS years ago to learn. 

We own 2 weeks at Oceanwatch bought directly from Marriott.

We also enrolled both weeks in the DC program years ago.

We have not bought any DC points as of yet, but may in the future.

Not too familiar with the levels of ownership in great detail, but I don't think that makes us even up to that 'Select' level yet correct?


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## dioxide45 (Sep 6, 2018)

lwhitt said:


> Forgive me...I am not as up on my knowledge as you all are here....hence the reason I joined TUGS years ago to learn.
> 
> We own 2 weeks at Oceanwatch bought directly from Marriott.
> 
> ...


As long as you own gold or above annual weeks, you would have enough. As each would be worth a minimum of 2,225 DC points. It only takes 4000 points to be Select which is enough for Platinum Elite status.


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## lwhitt (Sep 6, 2018)

dioxide45 said:


> As long as you own gold or above annual weeks, you would have enough. As each would be worth a minimum of 2,225 DC points. It only takes 4000 points to be Select which is enough for Platinum Elite status.



Gold or above?

We own 2 Silver weeks only, but both are DC enrolled weeks


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## dioxide45 (Sep 6, 2018)

lwhitt said:


> Gold or above?
> 
> We own 2 Silver weeks only, but both are DC enrolled weeks


Then you wouldn't have enough to be Select level as your weeks would only be worth 1,800 each if they are Ocean Front.


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## lwhitt (Sep 6, 2018)

dioxide45 said:


> Then you wouldn't have enough to be Select level as your weeks would only be worth 1,800 each if they are Ocean Front.



Correct. They are both oceanfront.

I'm still confused.

I guess I am just going to follow what my MR account says and has noted since Aug 19th which is that we're Platinum Elite. The email just threw me off since we've been Gold Elite for years and Gold Elite would not be an upgrade.


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## dioxide45 (Sep 6, 2018)

lwhitt said:


> Correct. They are both oceanfront.
> 
> I'm still confused.
> 
> I guess I am just going to follow what my MR account says and has noted since Aug 19th which is that we're Platinum Elite. The email just threw me off since we've been Gold Elite for years and Gold Elite would not be an upgrade.


You may be Platinum Elite for other reasons, have you stayed 50 nights, had rollover nights. You could be Platinum Elite because you somehow otherwise qualified for Gold in 2018 and they made that Platinum Elite after the system changes. You somehow made Gold previously based on something. You may drop back down to Gold Elite next year based on ownership or you may remain Platinum based on whatever criteria got you to the previous gold.


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## Venter (Sep 6, 2018)

dioxide45 said:


> You may be Platinum Elite for other reasons, have you stayed 50 nights, had rollover nights. You could be Platinum Elite because you somehow otherwise qualified for Gold in 2018 and they made that Platinum Elite after the system changes. You somehow made Gold previously based on something. You may drop back down to Gold Elite next year based on ownership or you may remain Platinum based on whatever criteria got you to the previous gold.



Could it be they were grandfathered in after the latest changes to levels as they signed up years ago?


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## BocaBoy (Sep 6, 2018)

TravelTime said:


> They also did not give me bonus points when I bought the Marbella week direct from them. I thought we got bonus points if we charge any Marriott purchases on the Marriott Rewards credit card?


If you are talking about the credit card 5 points per dollar, yes.  If you are talking about the 50% or 75% elite bonuses, they apply only to items charged to your room (and not from a third party vendor).  The 50% and 75% bonuses also apply to the room rate if booked direct with Marriott, but not on a third party site.


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## TravelTime (Sep 6, 2018)

BocaBoy said:


> If you are talking about the credit card 5 points per dollar, yes.  If you are talking about the 50% or 75% elite bonuses, they apply only to items charged to your room (and not from a third party vendor).  The 50% and 75% bonuses also apply to the room rate if booked direct with Marriott, but not on a third party site.



Yes talking about the Marriott Marbella purchase. Marriott is really droping the ball with me. I am very unhappy with them for many reasons. I am having many problems and no one will help. At the Marriott hotel, they promised to move me to a suite and then the entire front desk told me it wasn’t true that someone said that. They said I would need to pay for it. This is terrible customer service.


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## lwhitt (Sep 6, 2018)

dioxide45 said:


> You may be Platinum Elite for other reasons, have you stayed 50 nights, had rollover nights. You could be Platinum Elite because you somehow otherwise qualified for Gold in 2018 and they made that Platinum Elite after the system changes. You somehow made Gold previously based on something. You may drop back down to Gold Elite next year based on ownership or you may remain Platinum based on whatever criteria got you to the previous gold.



Thanks for the explanation. I kinda see what you mean.


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## lwhitt (Sep 6, 2018)

Venter said:


> Could it be they were grandfathered in after the latest changes to levels as they signed up years ago?



That's what I assumed. 

Pre-merger, I thought I read something about being upgraded to say (for example) MR Platinum Elite once the merger was official if you were already Gold Elite with Marriott previously.


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## dioxide45 (Sep 7, 2018)

lwhitt said:


> That's what I assumed.
> 
> Pre-merger, I thought I read something about being upgraded to say (for example) MR Platinum Elite once the merger was official if you were already Gold Elite with Marriott previously.


It seems that you somehow qualified for gold elite prior to the merger of reward programs, that is why you are Platinum Elite now. You may drop down to the new Gold Elite after January 2019 unless you are able to renew Platinum Elite through some other method.


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## scpoidog (Sep 7, 2018)

lwhitt said:


> So you said you were MR Platinum Elite but got this same email saying that you are MR Gold Elite?
> 
> So you have a discrepancy when it comes to this as well?



Yep.  I’m a lifetime plat from the hotel side.  On the timeshare side I only get 5925 points EOY, so maybe that’s why they had me classified so low and I got “upgraded”to gold status in the email. 

I think the systems must not talk to each other.


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## TravelTime (Sep 7, 2018)

scpoidog said:


> Yep.  I’m a lifetime plat from the hotel side.  On the timeshare side I only get 5925 points EOY, so maybe that’s why they had me classified so low and I got “upgraded”to gold status in the email.
> 
> I think the systems must not talk to each other.



Or it could be a systems error. I finally spoke to a CSR at Marriott Platinum line. The man said Marriott has a lot of known bugs and they are trying to fix them.


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