# Private Escapes and Ultimate Resorts to Merge



## LTTravel (Sep 12, 2007)

An announcement was made that Ultimate Resorts and Private Escapes plan to merge. The details are not clear yet but this is definately NEWS in the Destination Club Industry.


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## Steamboat Bill (Sep 12, 2007)

This is HUGE news and in the best interest of both clubs.....wow!


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## GOLFNBEACH (Sep 12, 2007)

LTTravel, thanks for the heads-up!  Is this rumor or confirmed?

I guess it is inevitable that there will be mergers in this business.  It seems that they will need to find a way to merge the PE "all you can eat" plan, with the UR "specified number of days" plan.


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## Bourne (Sep 12, 2007)

If this is true, the news is huge. 

Private Escapes had been struggling for a while to add members at the fast clip as HCC was effectively eating into its core market. 

It is a merger between two of the top five i.e. ER, UR, QN, PE & HCC. Also, it solidifies the need for a lite version of the club in the 1000+ member bracket.  As HCC is the ONLY viable LITE version of Destination club remaining, this puts pressure on the big three to be a HCC suitor if ( and the big IF ) HCC is willing to merge. 

I see a few things happening in the future...

HCC remaining independent - 9.0/10
HCC merging with UR - 7.0/10 - if UR and PE merger is successful. 
HCC merger with ER - 5.0/10 - would increase to 8.0/10 if UR and QR merge. 
HCC merging with QR - 3.0/10 - HCC management is way to smart to merge with a big three wannabe that it would surpass soon. 

Let the party begin.


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## Kagehitokiri (Sep 12, 2007)

what the heck? so which model are they going with?

and how are they breaking down the home values, because PE had 3 and UR had 2?

where was the announcement? email to members? any more info at all? 
(i find it absolutely bizarre it takes months for DC sites to actually have updated information/news online...)
(and theres no helium or sherpa coverage)


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## Steamboat Bill (Sep 12, 2007)

Bourne said:


> I see a few things happening in the future...
> 
> HCC remaining independent - 9.0/10
> HCC merging with UR - 7.0/10 - if UR and PE merger is successful.
> ...



I fully agree with you and would only add the possibility of another non-DC player like Marriott getting into the action. Buying HCC would give them a running start into the DC business.


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## Kagehitokiri (Sep 12, 2007)

ultimate resorts recently had a hotel alliance too.. 

http://www.sherpareport.com/destination-clubs/ultimate-resort-collection.html

so if completed this will be pretty large.


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## Bourne (Sep 12, 2007)

Kagehitokiri said:


> what the heck? so which model are they going with?
> 
> and how are they breaking down the home values, because PE had 3 and UR had 2?
> 
> ...



I would assume that PE Premiere and Platinum would be merged with Lite and  Pinnacle with UR's top tier. 

The merger would have to address two major questions. 
1. Does the Reciprocal model gets carried over for UR members.
2. Does the equity model get carried over for PE Members.


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## Kagehitokiri (Sep 12, 2007)

id also think they would have to be getting rid of the nightly fees..

dont the upper tier UR members get reciprocity to lower tier? or am i thinking of portofino?

seems like portofino would be another good merger/acquisition, based on the current standing of PE and UR.

if this goes through, i would think it would have to cause somewhat of a shakeup in the DC market.


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## LTTravel (Sep 12, 2007)

Kagehitokiri said:


> what the heck? so which model are they going with?
> 
> and how are they breaking down the home values, because PE had 3 and UR had 2?
> 
> ...



Initial plans are for three tiers, $1 million, $2 million and $3 million homes with five membership plans at each level (UR's going into the top two of PE). Which model they will use, PE or UR, is not clear yet. But it sounds more like the UR model. Maybe with some modifications. They plan on running independantly for a 75-90 period before there is a complete merge. They have plans to go ahead imminently but as they say, "It ain't over till the fat lady sings". I guess we are faster than Helium or Sherpa. I could use a side job.


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## LTTravel (Sep 12, 2007)

Bourne said:


> I see a few things happening in the future...
> 
> HCC remaining independent - 9.0/10
> HCC merging with UR - 7.0/10 - if UR and PE merger is successful.
> ...



I think that the options are really either
1. HCC remains independant
2. HCC merge with UR at the lowest level ($1 million)
3. Marriott buys them out

ER- not a chance, they will not start a two tier club unless they start a completely new one, completely seperate, but I doubt it. 
QR- I think they are a great club, but more likely to merge with Lusso, which is more at their level. They do not want a lower level club either. They just announce a $50 million development in Cabo (Why? they already have a bunch of homes there. I think that they are making some bad choices. ?Bend Oregon? How much of a national/international draw is that? Maybe locally it is popular but no one from the northeast is dying to go there.)


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## Kagehitokiri (Sep 12, 2007)

i highly doubt lusso will merge with a non-unlimited use club. thats their main marketing focus. as opposed to LRW which included it, but reservations were max 7 nts, i believe had less advanced reservations, and didnt market that feature as heavily.

quintess will be second after ER to have their own private development. steve case is also planning some ridiculous eco dev in costa rica, with $800MM being thrown around as the development cost. who knows with the carbon neutral craze, maybe itll be a good investment for him. but its separate from ER. although i would imagine there could easily be some shared properties/resources.


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## puffpuff (Sep 13, 2007)

As a UR member, I got this today: 

This week we will be announcing that Ultimate Resort®, the industry’s 2nd largest destination club, and Private Escapes™, the industry’s 3rd largest destination club, have signed a definitive agreement to merge and create the industry’s fastest growing and top destination club by number of club locations, with 1,200 combined club members accessing 140 club properties located in nearly 50 of the world’s best resort destinations in the US, Mexico, the Caribbean and Europe. For Ultimate Resort and Ultimate Resort ELITE Members, this transaction greatly enhances the number of club destinations and homes available, adding 18 new club destinations immediately upon closing. 
New Destinations Added at Closing: 
Belize 
Big Island, Hawaii 
Cap Cana, Dominican Republic 
Charleston, SC 
Chicago, IL 
Copper Mountain, CO 
Fox Acres, CO 
La Buscadora, BVI 
La Costa, CA 
Lake George, NY 
Lake Las Vegas, NV 
OuterBanks, NC 
Punta Cana, Dominican Republic 
Punta Mita, Mexico 
Reynolds Plantation, GA
Turks & Caicos 
Tuscany, Italy 
Watercolor, FL 
The combined company will have a global resort real estate portfolio with a fair market value of $200 million, and will also have one of the strongest and most seasoned management teams in the industry. The combined company will operate 3 distinct destination clubs targeting the $1 million, $2 million and $3 million average home value club categories. The specific name of the combined business and the names of the 3 destinations clubs will be finalized prior to closing. 
The signing of this agreement begins a formal 75 day due diligence process with an anticipated closing by the end of November 2007. While senior management from both Ultimate Resort and Private Escapes have spent a substantial amount of time discussing various topics regarding organizational structure, staffing, sales, marketing, operations, IT, member services, field operations, etc., there are still many details that need to be clarified and, therefore, we certainly do not have all the answers to questions that our employees or members may have today. We, of course, will continue to keep everyone updated and informed on our collective progress, including finalizing our go-forward plans and clarifying more of the details. 
With the closing of this milestone agreement, the combined company becomes: 
•	The fastest growing club in the $1 billion destination club industry 
•	The #1 club by number of global destinations 
•	The #1 club in the $1 million home value club category 
•	The #1 club in the $2 million home value club category 
•	The #2 club in the $3 million home value club category 
•	The #2 club by total number of members 
•	The only destination club that operates 3 distinct clubs and 5 flexible membership plans
Ultimate Resort and Private Escapes will maintain current club operations in parallel during the 75 day due diligence period while the two companies work on integrating all phases of club operations, technology, member services and field operations. During the first 90 days after closing, Rich Keith (founder and CEO of Private Escapes) and I will both serve as co-CEO’s of the combined company to ensure a seamless transition. Thereafter, I will serve as the CEO of the combined company and Rich will serve as Chairman of the Board. The combined company will continue to embrace the same sustainable and scalability business model that have proven successful for both Ultimate Resort and Private Escapes, ensuring our members have flexible access to the world’s broadest array of club destinations. The combined business is committed to providing great club availability and flexibility, while also maintaining a low equivalent member-to-property ratio, a winning strategy that has led to strong growth and member satisfaction over the last few years. 
The combined company will operate its corporate and operational offices in Orlando, FL, Fort Collins, CO and Kansas City, MO and is committed to maintaining operational offices in both Ft. Collins and Kansas City until the end of 2008. I will be scheduling a member call in the near future to provide you with more details and answer any questions you have about the value and benefits of the merger. Please do not hesitate to contact your Membership Director, Member Services Specialist or the Senior Management team if you have any questions or concerns in the meantime.


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## puffpuff (Sep 13, 2007)

My take on the bottom line:

a. PE is being absorbed by UR. Simple. UR CEO to be the CEO of the merged company. 
b. There will be 3 -tier at the end of the day, consistent with current UR model whcih is here to stay.
c. HCC will eventually be absorbed as a matter of time at a premium and will blend into the lowest tier.


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## puffpuff (Sep 13, 2007)

Those who are thinking about HCC may want to be more practive. Given the merger trend and HCC's current undervalue play, its a matter of time before HCC is absorbed into the lowest tier of UR/PE combine entity . Bear in mind that PE lowest tier is current about twice the price of HCC.


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## puffpuff (Sep 13, 2007)

Based on how UR absorbed members of Tanney and Halley which went well, this is how I see the merger will develop:

Existing PE Platinum Members ( 200000 to join, 11500 dues, 135 per night) will be converted into Ultimate Silver ( 215000 to join as of Sept 15, 14500 dues, 21 days) with a coupon to upgrade to higher level within the same tier or to different tier. 

Existing PE Premier Members ( 100000 to join, 7700 per year, 80 per night) ) will likwise be converted into a new low tier silver , with 21 days usage and about 9500 dues). This will open up a bronze level within this tier with lower entrance fee (  60,000) and 14 days to  compete with HCC.  Compare this to HCC's current price of private memebrshp at 60,000 with dues of 8400 for 45 days, HCC is offereing twice the number of days . 

Of course I could be totally wrong.


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## TarheelTraveler (Sep 13, 2007)

I agree with LTTravel.  I could see some mergers among ER, Quintess, Lusso and possibly Crescendo and Bellehavens (although the last two have very different structures than the first three), but I doubt they would merge with HCC, for example.  The portfolios are too different, and they wouldn't really be adding any scale, which is driving these mergers.  I could see HCC being merged into Portofino or the UR/PE combination someday, so might not be bad to get in with HCC.

ER probably doesn't need to merge, as they seem to have incredible growth, regardless of the economics.  They are almost mainstream at this point.  I've met a lot of people who've heard about Exclusive Resorts, but know nothing about clubs or the DC industry as a whole.


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## PerryM (Sep 13, 2007)

*3 into 2 sounds an alert...*

When company #3 merges into #2 then they know something we don’t know – 1) poorly run #3, 2) Softening of the DC market 3) New player entering the market that will challenge them for #2 slot or even #1

I can only guess, but *I’d guess a major player is getting ready to enter the market *– a Marriott or Westin or both.  Once they enter the DC market it will forever change and the change will be instantaneous and have broad repercussions to companies with a few hundred members or less – mainly #5 and below.

Let’s see if more mergers happen this year and we will have our answer.

I was leaning to joining a DC but have now shelved that idea – I’d rather have a major player handle my money; I'd bet many others will also.

P.S.
What would happen if Ritz-Carlton entered with 25 eye popping destinations/units with 10 memberships each or 250 in total.  How long before those 250 sold out - 1 week?  A unit would be in the $4 M range so each would be $400k membership with $40k MF for 4 weeks.  1 week sounds about right.

What would they do in week #2?   50 more units?

What would that do for the entire industry?  Try to sell your membership and roll it over to a Ritz?  Good luck.


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## GOLFNBEACH (Sep 13, 2007)

puffpuff said:


> Those who are thinking about HCC may want to be more practive. Given the merger trend and HCC's current undervalue play, its a matter of time before HCC is absorbed into the lowest tier of UR/PE combine entity . Bear in mind that PE lowest tier is current about twice the price of HCC.



Interesting thought.  Let's assume I join HCC as an Associate Member ($30K, $3,500 annual, 15 nights) and they are sold to UR/PE.  What level would I be at in the new club?  I'm guessing they kick me down to the PE "trial" status that is based on 14 nights and $4,600.  Bottom line I would lose a night and have my annual dues increased over 30%.

If I were to join HCC as a Private Member ($60K, $8,400 annual, 45 nights) what level would I be at under UR/PE?  Based on property values I would probably fall into something like the PE Premier.  Since PE Premier has no set days the club needs to work something out.

Lot's of questions and uncertainties.


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## vineyarder (Sep 13, 2007)

> Is this rumor or confirmed?





> where was the announcement? email to members? any more info at all?
> (i find it absolutely bizarre it takes months for DC sites to actually have updated information/news online...)
> (and theres no helium or sherpa coverage)



Yes, confirmed... Internal notifaction to members was yesterday; public release is today, hence no online info or coverage yet...



> Private Escapes had been struggling for a while to add members at the fast clip as HCC was effectively eating into its core market.



Actually, this is not true; the pace at which PE has been adding members has remained the same during the period of HCC's dramatic growth...  The number of members per month joining PE Premiere has been very consistent over the past 2 years...



> a. PE is being absorbed by UR. Simple. UR CEO to be the CEO of the merged company.



I disagree.  The UR CEO will be the CEO of the combined entity, but the PE CEO will become the Chairman of the Board (higher on the org chart) and the PE COO will be the COO of the combined entity... and operations will be consolidated in Ft. Collins, at the PE office building, not in UR's home base of Orlando.  It is really being treated as a merger of equals.



> Those who are thinking about HCC may want to be more practive. Given the merger trend and HCC's current undervalue play, its a matter of time before HCC is absorbed into the lowest tier of UR/PE combine entity . Bear in mind that PE lowest tier is current about twice the price of HCC.




Agree; consolidation = less competition = higher prices.  Whichever DC you are considering, this is probably a good time to join.  Once the PE/UR merger is complete, the deposit and annual dues will be 30% higher than PE is now.  I also agree that HCC would make an attractive parter to be merged into the lowest tier of the PE/UR combo...



> Based on how UR absorbed members of Tanney and Halley which went well, this is how I see the merger will develop:
> 
> Existing PE Platinum Members ( 200000 to join, 11500 dues, 135 per night) will be converted into Ultimate Silver ( 215000 to join as of Sept 15, 14500 dues, 21 days) with a coupon to upgrade to higher level within the same tier or to different tier.
> 
> Existing PE Premier Members ( 100000 to join, 7700 per year, 80 per night) ) will likwise be converted into a new low tier silver , with 21 days usage and about 9500 dues).



This will be treated totally differently than the T&H deal.  With T&H, the members were 'up a creek', as their club was ceasing to exist, so they could be shoehorned into an existing UR plan.  That is not the case with this merger.  Existing PE members will be grandfathered into a special class of membership in the new entity, that will preserve the terms they signed up under (unlimited usage, annual fee structure, etc.).  Of course, this will not be offered to new members of the combined entity, so it will not be on the website, etc. (just like peopel who joined HCC prior to rule changes wrt holiday bookings are grandfathered into the rulkes they joined under).  



> ER probably doesn't need to merge, as they seem to have incredible growth, regardless of the economics.



agree...



> When company #3 merges into #2 then they know something we don’t know – 1) poorly run #3, 2) Softening of the DC market 3) New player entering the market that will challenge them for #2 slot or even #1



Disagree completely.  While there certainly may be a major new player entering the market, it is very reasonable for the #2 & #3 players to merge in order to compete effectively against the #1; happens all the time!

Bottom Line:  Is this a good thing for the members of UR & PE?
Answer:  Only time will tell...  I certainly hope that the PE style reservation flexibility remains, and I hope that the UR home quality is as good as PE's; I'm a little worried looking over the UR site, as some of the non-elite homes appear to be lower in quality/location than PE, but it is very difficult to assess, as there aren't alot of photos... Certainly the Naples home being 45 minutes from the beach is a turn-off, as are the lack of ocean views on the non-elite home in Hawaii... I am certainly hoping that I am wrong, and would love to hear from UR members on their experiences!


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## TarheelTraveler (Sep 13, 2007)

My understanding from those in the industry is that PE is very well run and that there has been softening in the DC industry probably in connection with the overall real estate market.  A lot of clubs are just beating each other up with various introductory offers that are not sustainable long term.

I do think that we'll see a major player enter the market, but that ER and UR may be big enough at this point to fend off a major player.  We did see one major player enter the market and fail, having to essentially merge into Q.  Cendant and Leading Residences of the World entered with a big splash, good size portfolio ahead of demand and good pricing terms, but could never get the traction that they needed to make it without a merger.  I think at this point if a major player enters the market they will need a great name like Ritz and have to commit major dollars or, more likely, merge with an established player.


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## vineyarder (Sep 13, 2007)

> What would happen if Ritz-Carlton entered with 25 eye popping destinations/units with 10 memberships each or 250 in total. How long before those 250 sold out - 1 week? A unit would be in the $4 M range so each would be $400k membership with $40k MF for 4 weeks. 1 week sounds about right.
> 
> What would they do in week #2? 50 more units?
> 
> What would that do for the entire industry? Try to sell your membership and roll it over to a Ritz? Good luck.



As a member of a Ritz-Carlton managed property, I have utmost respect for the company, and if they decided to enter the DC market, they would 'do it right'.   However, if the Ritz did this (and I know that they have had these discussions), it would be a strong competitor for ER, but would not be competing for the same people that join PE Platinum, PE Premiere, UR (non-elite), bellehavens, or HCC...  And even if they sold out ina week or two, and no one joined any other destination club during those 2 weeks, that would just be a blip on the sales charts of the other DCs... and it might increase awareness such that people who never heard of DCs start shopping around.


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## Kagehitokiri (Sep 13, 2007)

i am not particularly interested in FS or RC... i want homes. (unless they open up residential condo penthouses..)

i WAS very interested in Setai Club back when they were planning unlimited use at Amanresorts, but that has apparently been shelved. 

Banyan Tree Private Collection works like a DC, except its ~$100K / $3K per week. (CAN be a great value, but not particularly appealing to me)

PE tiers >
Average Purchase	$800,000	$1.5 Million	$3 Million
so bottom is SAME as HCC... therefore i agree it seems like a sure thing that HCC will eventually be acquired/etc. _could_ be a great thing for HCC members, depending on how they do it.

personally, i am interested in lusso and ciel(if new plan is half the price of original plan) because they offer unlimited use, and are IMHO better than portofino and solstice (same price) respectively.

im also watching DHH (cheap, better fit than HCC for me) and WPR (no annual fee) 

unfortunately seems like WPR is having trouble getting initial investor/members, since they launched with 3 homes, and now appear to have sold one. 2 homes means they have less than 20 members.


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## Steamboat Bill (Sep 13, 2007)

I think this merger is GOOD for the DC industry as it converts two moderately strong players into one very strong player.

Thus, ER will be the king of the hill for now and UR/PE is closing on them fast!

HCC is still UNIQUE in the DC industry as they focus on $1m or less properties and offer memberships that directly compete with high-end timeshares. HCC is NOT in competition with the other DCs, they are in competition with the high end timeshares like Four Seasons, Hyatt, Marriott, DVC, Hitlon, etc.

HCC is also targeting the largest group of potential members (people with upper middle class incomes) vs targeting the wealthy and going after $3-4m homes. Thus, HCC has the BEST long term growth opportunities. This is why timeshares did so well...they were able to sell vacation homes to average people for 1/52 the cost of buying one themselves.

I have posted dozens of threads on this forum outlining how HCC is CHEAPER to join and maintain than any of those top-tiers timeshares and offers a far superior recommendations.

Even if the Ritz, Marriott, etc enters the DC market, it will be good for the entire industry as it would give instant credibility to this new travel concept.

Remember that there are only 5,000 or so DC members compared to the 1m or more timeshare owners and multiple millions of second home owners.

I can only say this for myself....joining a DC is far BETTER than any timeshare or second home/condo/townhome ownership.

There is only one exception to this statement - If you love to go to only one location and stay there for extended periods of time during multiple seasons of the year, then you should BUY a second home/condo etc. Otherwise, DC offers a hassle free vacation in a property that closely approximates second home ownership with ZERO hassles of ownership.


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## vineyarder (Sep 13, 2007)

> The merger will give both Ultimate Resort and Private Escapes members access to over 140 properties, as well as over 60 luxury hotels around the world.



Quote from the Helium Report story on the merger; *does anyone know anything about the hotel deal?  Which hotels, how does it work?*  I don't see any mention of it on their website...

Also, does anyone know how many homes UR has in each of their 2 clubs?  The website doesn't seem to have that information... and it is even more confusing because the home page states "members have access to dozens of spectacular residences" whereas another page says "enjoy close to 100 luxurious vacation homes"... Certainly 'close to 100' is about 8 dozen, but one usually wouldn't use the term 'dozens' to mean more than 24 - 36...


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## puffpuff (Sep 13, 2007)

RC , through its RC club, already is in the hybrid DC industry .Current Maui Club  cost 390000 for 21 days usage, 17000 annual dues, 38 weeks to be sold per unit. No Christmas/New Year unless you pay premium. Exchangable to other RC club properties within 45 days window. You do get a deed and title.


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## Sherpa (Sep 13, 2007)

vineyarder said:


> *does anyone know anything about the hotel deal?  Which hotels, how does it work?*  I don't see any mention of it on their website...



UR announced the "Ultimate Resort Collection" a couple of weeks ago - a partnership with hotels that gives their members access to about 60 hotels in 30 locations. Basically members book the hotels in the same way that they use the nights in their membership plan.

They have their home destinations in each club on their site at http://www.ultimateresort.com/membership/index.cfm - but don't show the number of homes in each location.

Cheers
Sherpa


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## Kagehitokiri (Sep 13, 2007)

vineyarder said:


> Quote from the Helium Report story on the merger; *does anyone know anything about the hotel deal?  Which hotels, how does it work?*  I don't see any mention of it on their website...



i referenced/linked it 11 posts ago 
http://tugbbs.com/forums/showpost.php?p=391420&postcount=7 

websites are updated months later it seems.



> Exchangable to other RC club properties within 45 days window.


 what does that mean? (RC is a fractional/PRC )


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## vineyarder (Sep 13, 2007)

> i referenced/linked it 11 posts ago



missed that link; sorry!


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## vineyarder (Sep 13, 2007)

> I'm a little worried looking over the UR site, as some of the non-elite homes appear to be lower in quality/location than PE, but it is very difficult to assess, as there aren't alot of photos...



Just got done seeing a presentation of the UR homes; I withdraw my concern over quality/location!!!


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## Kagehitokiri (Sep 13, 2007)

huh. sorry, i (tried to?) edit that out. i was just joking, but didnt want to come across negatively.


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## whatmough (Sep 13, 2007)

Steamboat Bill said:


> HCC is still UNIQUE in the DC industry as they focus on $1m or less properties and offer memberships that directly compete with high-end timeshares. HCC is NOT in competition with the other DCs, they are in competition with the high end timeshares like Four Seasons, Hyatt, Marriott, DVC, Hitlon, etc.
> 
> HCC is also targeting the largest group of potential members (people with upper middle class incomes) vs targeting the wealthy and going after $3-4m homes. Thus, HCC has the BEST long term growth opportunities. This is why timeshares did so well...they were able to sell vacation homes to average people for 1/52 the cost of buying one themselves.



I agree, Bill.  HCC new marketing strategy appears to target the high end timeshare market as opposed to competing with other DC's.  Their newly offered "Associate" and "Trial" membership levels have brought bother the number of days (7-15) and cost ($20-$30,000) down to a level familiar and comfortable to high-end timesharers.  The fact they they have been the only DC to openly court TUG members reaffirms this strategy.

Whether this turns out to be an effective strategy or not will be determined by how successful they are in selling an unfamiliar new DC type model (albeit a much superior one IMHO)  to timesharers used to buying a specific property in a specific location a week at a time.    Because the number of desirable destinations available in the $850- $1m is limited as is the location (ski- in/ski-out, beachfront vs. more remote) and amenities within the price range, I don't see HCC being an attractive merger partner for any of the top 5 or 6 DC's except perhaps the UR/PE combo.  With the new UR/PE combo likely to place its main emphasis on the higher tiers of membership ($200-$400K and $1.5M-$3M+ homes), that would leave the under $1M niche to HCC alone.  This would open up a huge opportunity for them assume DC leadership in this niche if they can find the way to exploit it profitably.


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## Steamboat Bill (Sep 13, 2007)

The interesting thing after this merger will be that HCC will be the #3 largest DC in terms of total members.


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## travelguy (Sep 13, 2007)

Here's the web site link for the merger:
http://www.starttheexperience.com/


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## travelguy (Sep 13, 2007)

*PE/UR Merger*

It's amazing what is being read into a normal business development.  Companies grow by three main catalysts: 1) Merger, 2) Acquisition & 3) Infusion of outside capital.  I don't believe this merger would happen if the DC sector was not healthy and continuing to show promise in it's infancy.  The sky is not falling!  PE/UR will continue to do well and may do much better as a single entity.  I'm far more skeptical of the other DC start-ups that are struggling with low member counts than I am of the new PE/UR.

I believe the speculation of HCC being acquired or seeking a merger is WAY too premature.  They are not even close enough to the biz growth stage that would allow the management and investors to maximum their cash out. 

Furthermore, HCC is doing well in the marketing niche that they have created and continue to dominate.  Their membership numbers appear to be in line with their projections and they continue to successfully proceed with their unique biz model.

The PE/UR merger only helps HCC as it takes the only real competitor in their price point (PE) and merges it into a company that now has to compete with all but the high-end DCs due to their multi-tier price point membership plans.  I believe this will dilute the PE/UR marketing efforts in the "value" area that HCC so successfully exploits.  It may be that HCC has had a marketing advantage dropped into their lap that is the equivalent of the disoriented opponent described by Sun Tzu in "The Art of War"!

I also believe that the larger luxury travel property companies (Marriott, Hilton, et. al.) would never be able to compete at the HCC price point because they do not have the corporate efficiency to offer the same quality experience and properties as HCC for the same price.  I also believe it's too early in the DC business evolution for them to enter into the biz.  They can't be the 800 pound gorilla in the room if the room is not constructed yet!

My two cents worth: I believe that membership in the top DCs is still a good bet and wouldn't let the PE/UR merger dissuade a potential member's due diligence process.


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## Kagehitokiri (Sep 13, 2007)

i definitely agree >
- its a positive market sign.
- non luxury hotels are going to be a WHILE before they get into DCs. marriott is still doing weeks TS instead of points. TS have those crazy margins too.

OTOH >
- PE and UR were pretty different, and neither seemed to be in a "growth" stage.. so this was more of a surprising merger IMHO, meaning HCC could very well be "next" although portofino seems even more prime, as its smaller in terms of members, and has a similar tier (of home values) setup.



> ...nearly 50 locations...more than 140 [homes]...for a limited time, join now and you can enjoy all of our destinations at our current pre-merger deposit and dues


 could turn out to be a heck of a deal..


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## GOLFNBEACH (Sep 13, 2007)

travelguy said:


> I believe the speculation of HCC being acquired or seeking a merger is WAY too premature.  They are not even close enough to the biz growth stage that would allow the management and investors to maximum their cash out.



I'm not sure about that.  HCCs is trying to get the average initiation fee up over $100K, which is exactly where PEs Premier club begins.  Could be a good fit.

It seems that the DC model is all about obtaining enough members to maximize cash flow.

At this point I would think HCC would benefit more from a merger with a PE than the other way around.


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## Kagehitokiri (Sep 13, 2007)

hmm, guess it also starts depending on how they distribute financially.. and OTOH HCC does have those lower membership levels.

it will be very interesting to see where the pricing starts for the lowest membership of the $1MM tier of the new merged club starts.


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## Bourne (Sep 13, 2007)

GOLFNBEACH said:


> I'm not sure about that.  HCCs is trying to get the average initiation fee up over $100K, which is exactly where PEs Premier club begins.  Could be a good fit.
> 
> It seems that the DC model is all about obtaining enough members to maximize cash flow.
> 
> At this point I would think HCC would benefit more from a merger with a PE than the other way around.



I tend to agree with Doug on this one. 

There are multiple reasons that HCC has been successful...

1. Initial focus on Ski properties. HCC does have the most diverse portfolio of ski locations thatn any other DC out there. If you are an avid skier, HCC membership is a slam dunk. 

2. Cost. - HCC kept their price point way below their major/only competitor ( PE ) and inline with High end timeshares. From a potential member's prespective, it is first about cost and second about number of nights. A club may offer 100 nights but if the price is 200K+, not many people are going to sign up. 

HCC's future growth will be driven by it's cheaper membership options. Infact, that is what HCC is looking for. A Private membership may net them $60K but 2x Affiliate is 80K and 3x Associate is $90K. Remember, it takes 6-7 *FULL* to buy a new home. $420K vs $630K before they buy one. Like I mentioned before, 275+ member count is full memberships. Numerically, the number of accounts including trial members may well be over 350. 

I have to admit that UR/PE is the most probable merger candidate for HCC. That said, I too believe the speculation of HCC being acquired or seeking a merger is WAY too premature. In fact, they would be better off staying independent as the market conditions have technically improved for HCC.


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## LTTravel (Sep 13, 2007)

vineyarder said:


> Just got done seeing a presentation of the UR homes; I withdraw my concern over quality/location!!!



Where did you see that presentation?


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## LTTravel (Sep 13, 2007)

*New Math?*

...nearly 50 locations...more than 140 [homes]...for a limited time, join now and you can enjoy all of our destinations at our current pre-merger deposit and dues 

I thought UR had 100+ homes and PE had 70+ homes. Does that add up to 140?  Where did the homes go?

There are alot of questions to be answered.

Also, An email from Jim Tousignant to Helium apparently stated that current member plans will not be effected, only those going forward. How can you have members in a club where some have unlimited use and others have limited use, where some have unlimited holidays and others have limited holidays? Some must book Sunday to Sunday and others do not have to. Many of the plans are quite different. They apparently will also be going to a 80% refundable plan for new members, no more 80% of current value. 
Lots of questions!


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## NeilGoBlue (Sep 13, 2007)

LTTravel said:


> Where did you see that presentation?



When you call and show an interest, they will get you on the website and 'show you' the homes.  

I was not impressed during my due diliegence.  I thought BH homes were nicer and in better locations.  The elite homes were great, but at a much higher price point.

Granted BH is at a higher price point than UR lower end offerings. (but below their elite program)


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## Kagehitokiri (Sep 13, 2007)

LTTravel said:


> ...nearly 50 locations...more than 140 [homes]...for a limited time, join now and you can enjoy all of our destinations at our current pre-merger deposit and dues
> 
> I thought UR had 100+ homes and PE had 70+ homes. Does that add up to 140?  Where did the homes go?


i know with the Solstice-Parallel merger they DID sell properties, although i guess those might have been leased actually?

not sure about the other 3 completed mergers, or the current pending one though.

but most large clubs seem to routinely sell properties, as they reconfigure their portfolios.

also note seemingly the most important phrase "all our destinations" seems to suggest theyre bringing in the reciprocity from PE, unless theyre cutting the destinations that only had $1.5MM and $3MM homes.. 

and so it seems theyre getting rid of most of the unlimited use, along with the nighly fees. and for the PE premiere / ~$1MM tier, theyre going to go from 1 membership plan to *5* plans. so id have to imagine the price range will include some competitive to HCC (like a replacement for the preview plan..)

for those considering a PE Preview membership, i would really think now would be the time to join.. since you have a 100% refund if you dont want to keep it, regardless of how the merger impacts you.

also especially because HCC seems to have established that their trial isnt going away, although its not extendable..


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## LTTravel (Sep 13, 2007)

NeilGoBlue said:


> When you call and show an interest, they will get you on the website and 'show you' the homes.



It doesn't seem to make sense that they don't show everyone all there homes. They should know that the photos and galleries of homes is probably the most important marketing material. ER has great photos. Quintess has fantastic photos. The photos sure make a difference on your opinion of the homes. I know they have been going around giving sales presentations. You would think that they could make those photos available to all that are interested.


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## Kagehitokiri (Sep 13, 2007)

quintess doesnt allow nonmembers to see property details online... (free registration gives you something, but not that) which is really annoying IMHO... even ciel club allows you to see more pictures, even though it doesnt give fine details.

here are the numbers >

1 - pe premiere - 24 destinations 30 properties
2 - pe platinum - 20 destinations 21 properties (yacht shared with premiere) (website list + breckenridge)
3 - pe pinnacle - 6 destinations 6 properties

2 - ur - 22 destinations 23+ properties
3 - ur elite - 21 destinations 21+ properties
(46 additional properties spit between two tiers)
hotels = 30+ destinations / 60 hotel properties (studios/1BR suites?) (active next month)

combined numbers >
1 - 24 destinations 30 properties
2 - 35 destinations 44 properties
3 - 23 destinations 27 properties
leftover in 2/3 - 46 properties
total destinations - *44* 
total properties - *147*
hotels - not active yet

PE members, please keep us informed as to when they let you know how you will be affected / what your choices are.


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## GOLFNBEACH (Sep 13, 2007)

Bourne said:


> HCC's future growth will be driven by it's cheaper membership options. Infact, that is what HCC is looking for. .



I'll respectfully disagree. Talk to some of the folks at HCC, or even better sign an NDA and get their financial projecctions.  They are trying to evolve their club toward the $100K membership level.

I think HCC has carved out a niche and has been successful so far.  However they have equity investors and need an eventual exit strategy.  It may be sooner or later - who knows for sure.  But... a meger would be a very desirable option if the terms are right.


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## GOLFNBEACH (Sep 13, 2007)

*Wall Street Journal*

WSJ article pg. D1 from Thursday 9/13.

Destination Clubs Try To Shore Up Their Image

Industry Hopes Consolidation And Regulation Will Restore Members' Shaken Confidence

The article discuss the UR and PE meger plans, however, it seems to focus on the Tanner and Haley bankrupcy problem.  It indicates than approximately 650 of the 800 T&H members decided to take URs offer to join the club without additional new deposits.  I wonder why the other 150 members decided not to join and potentially only collect pennies on the dollar?


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## Kagehitokiri (Sep 13, 2007)

1. HCC currently runs 30K/3.5K > 40K/5.4K > 60K/8.4K > 70K/9.6K (corporate)

2. PE Premiere is currently 105K/7.7K

3. after the merger, the lowest tier ($800K PE Premiere) will have 4 ADDITIONAL membership plans (3 family and 1 corporate) _presumably_ including at least 1 priced in line with 1 of HCC's current plans


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## saluki (Sep 13, 2007)

Kagehitokiri said:


> 3. after the merger, the lowest tier ($800K PE Premiere) will have 4 ADDITIONAL membership plans, presumably including at least 1 priced in line with 1 of HCC's current plans



The Sherpa Report story indicates the merged company will have 3 tiers (not five):

"The merged company will operate 3 distinct destination clubs targeting the $1 million, $2 million and $3 million average home value club categories".

The Helium Report story indicates 5 tiers:

"According to Tousignant, there will be no change to existing memberships, but there will be adjustments to plans going forward, as they tweak the five different plans that the new club will offer".


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## Kagehitokiri (Sep 13, 2007)

LTTravel said:


> *Initial plans* are for *three tiers*, $1 million, $2 million and $3 million homes with *five membership plans* at *each* level (UR's going into the top two of PE)...sounds more like the UR model.



3 tiers, and 5 plans per tier, like UR has now - 4 family plans and 1 corporate plan.

http://ultimateresort.com/membership/index.cfm

the helium report story confirms this information IMHO - saying "plans" and not "tiers"


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## LTTravel (Sep 13, 2007)

*UR or PE a better membership deal?*

It is definately three tiers and five different membership plans. The interview with the CEO's on Helium and Sherpa indicate that they want to merge reservations by December and use PE's current online booking system. I don't know how they are going to do that with the different booking rules between UR and PE. 

If they keep both plans retroactively and change membership rules only proactively, who do you think benefits more, UR or PE members? The way I look at it. PE Pinnacle has unlimited reservations, 28 days on the books at any one time, up to two years in advance, can book a reservation from 1-14 days long, unlimited holidays. The UR elite platinum has 42 bookable days per year but up to 28 days up to 2 years in advance (in 4, 7 day, Sunday to Sunday reservations) and 14 days up to 180 days in advance plus 30,000 points good for another 10 days and two holidays 180-2 years in advance, unlimited holidays <180 days. PE $22,000 annual dues plus daily fees, UR Elite Platinum, $30,000 yearly dues. PE you can book lower tiered homes, UR Elite Platinum, you cannot.
Similar but slightly different scenario for UR Platinum vs PE Platinum. It would be very difficult to determine which is the better deal. It can get very confusing to figure this out.


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## Kagehitokiri (Sep 13, 2007)

yeah, they are vastly different models - IMHO this will set a real precedent for M&A in the DC industry, much moreso than the merger of Quintess/DCR and LHW (which dropped unlimited total use from LHW) for example.

PE brings a new low tier, and about the same for mid tier.
UR brings a lot more properties for the high tier.

plans are becoming _more_ like UR.

but it also seems fairly certain that they are bringing in the PE reciprocity, from the way they are wording the number of destinations/properties offered by the new post merger club.

and PE did not have unlimited use for no extra fee, they charge a fee for every single night used. so even if they did get rid of unlimited use (especially when you have 5 plans with different numbers of nights) its nowhere near the same impact it was for LHW members after the Quintess/DCR and LHW merger.


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## pwrshift (Sep 13, 2007)

To me, RC Club seems a lot different from the DC market ... more resort areas than individual homes and only a handful of locations at present.  I can't see RC running around town making beds and cleaning up a bunch of 'home' locations.  Apparently RC has 3,000 'owners' at their present list of locations, so they are growing.

Brian



puffpuff said:


> RC , through its RC club, already is in the hybrid DC industry .Current Maui Club cost 390000 for 21 days usage, 17000 annual dues, 38 weeks to be sold per unit. No Christmas/New Year unless you pay premium. Exchangable to other RC club properties within 45 days window. You do get a deed and title.


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## Kagehitokiri (Sep 13, 2007)

im curious about the "exchange within 45 days" part though..

some fractional properties allow unlimited space available use, and booking multiple units even though you only own 1 fraction.

but i have never seen a fractional company / PRC that allows unlimited use across their portfolio. setai may do that in the future, once they have more properties, but while they were originally planning to do it with Amanresorts properties, that has apparently been scrapped. 

if a PRC did that, id be more interested. otherwise i see DCs as much more attractive since they have multiple destinations/properties.

banyan tree private collection is basically like a DC, and sells 1-week increments for $100K/$3K, and you can go to any of their hotels/resorts(villas etc), or a number of independent villas as well. banyan tree residences are designed more for investment purposes, allowing a choice of 2 different income/return models, and charging up to $2.5MM (seychelles) for 60 days of use per year.


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## vineyarder (Sep 14, 2007)

LTTravel said:


> Where did you see that presentation?



Called up UR and a membership director took me on an online "tour"... agree that it is strange that they do not show and list all the homes by club on their website...


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## vineyarder (Sep 14, 2007)

> An email from Jim Tousignant to Helium apparently stated that current member plans will not be effected, only those going forward. How can you have members in a club where some have unlimited use and others have limited use, where some have unlimited holidays and others have limited holidays? Some must book Sunday to Sunday and others do not have to. Many of the plans are quite different.



That is what PE members have been told as well; no change to deal you joined, just changes for new members, although things like holiday booking rules may change, as they were subject to change (and did change twice) previously...  It may be a bit cumbersome, but certainly feasible to have numerous rules that apply differently to different members; the computer reservations sytems should be able to know that I, as an 'old-timer PE' can book unlimited nights but a new member is limited to a certain number per year (just like new members in different plans get different numbers of nights, holiday usage, etc.).  My understanding is that current UR reservation policies, while more restictive than PE, are still more flexible than ER or others that require a 7 night stay srriving on a certain day.  My guess is that the combined entity will have a reservation system that is more like PE's (hence the decision to use PE's booking engine) but perhaps with some tweaking; i.e. may change minimum from 1 night to 2 or 3 nights...


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## vineyarder (Sep 14, 2007)

> PE members, please keep us informed as to when they let you know how you will be affected / what your choices are.



So far, we've been told that we will not be 'shoehorned' into any new/different plan; we'll still be under the agreement we joined under; i.e. unlimited nights, same annual dues (but still subject to annual CPI + 2% increases), same deposit refund policy (100% or 80%, depending on when you joined), etc.  Certainly some policies will change (i.e. holidays, maybe minimum nights to book), but we will not be 'converted' to some new membership plan; we'll be a 'special class' of member that mirrors our current arrangement.


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## vineyarder (Sep 14, 2007)

LTTravel said:


> It is definately three tiers and five different membership plans. The interview with the CEO's on Helium and Sherpa indicate that they want to merge reservations by December and use PE's current online booking system. I don't know how they are going to do that with the different booking rules between UR and PE.
> 
> If they keep both plans retroactively and change membership rules only proactively, who do you think benefits more, UR or PE members? The way I look at it. PE Pinnacle has unlimited reservations, 28 days on the books at any one time, up to two years in advance, can book a reservation from 1-14 days long, unlimited holidays. The UR elite platinum has 42 bookable days per year but up to 28 days up to 2 years in advance (in 4, 7 day, Sunday to Sunday reservations) and 14 days up to 180 days in advance plus 30,000 points good for another 10 days and two holidays 180-2 years in advance, unlimited holidays <180 days. PE $22,000 annual dues plus daily fees, UR Elite Platinum, $30,000 yearly dues. PE you can book lower tiered homes, UR Elite Platinum, you cannot.
> Similar but slightly different scenario for UR Platinum vs PE Platinum. It would be very difficult to determine which is the better deal. It can get very confusing to figure this out.



I agree - very confusing...  I'm glad that I'm not in the position of having to make that decision right now!  Since it has been announced that rates for the new entity will be 25% - 35% higher than current plans, anyone considering joining would want to do that prior to the merger to avoid the rate hike, but wouldn't really know what the eventual entity will look like or which 'deal' is better right now.  I guess the bottom line for someone wanting to join PE or UR before the rate increases would be to base the decision on a 'what ifthe merger falls through' scenario, and join the one whose destinations, homes, rules, etc. fit your needs best...


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## travelguy (Sep 14, 2007)

GOLFNBEACH said:


> I'll respectfully disagree. Talk to some of the folks at HCC, or even better sign an NDA and get their financial projecctions.  They are trying to evolve their club toward the $100K membership level.
> 
> I think HCC has carved out a niche and has been successful so far.  However they have equity investors and need an eventual exit strategy.  It may be sooner or later - who knows for sure.  But... a meger would be a very desirable option if the terms are right.



The HCC 10 year plan does have the average membership up to $100K within three years BUT this is the average of all "equivalent" memberships including the lower membership plans.  I'm guessing that their Private memberships will top out at about $80K which should give them the $100K average when you blend in the Affiliate, Associate and Group memberships.

My understanding is that HCC will continue to focus on this specific demographic (the "value luxury" customer) and offer several different plans based on the number of nights (as they do now).

HCC's advantage has always been their corporate efficiency which allows them to be profitable at a lower membership fee and their targeting of the specific "value luxury" vertical market.  This makes them the top player in this niche.  It's ironic that HCC is targeting the narrowest vertical market that also happens to have an almost infinite base of potential consumers.

Also, the HCC PPM 10-year plan has tremendous return for equity investors that would be hard to match with any type of merger or acquisition by another DC.  As I mentioned before, they appear to be on track for those returns to investors.  I contend that any merger or acquisition of HCC will happen much later rather than sooner.

All of this is good news for HCC members and potential members!


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## Steamboat Bill (Sep 14, 2007)

I still think this merger is good for the DC industry, but the cost per night will be in the $1,000 per night range.


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## Kagehitokiri (Sep 14, 2007)

thanks for all the additional information vineyarder,

that might make sense (keeping your current plan) i wonder if its the same for UR members as well. and just adding reciprocity, so that everyone can can use every property for at least 1 week. it will be interesting to see what they do with unlimited use/nightly fees..

now would people joining now be in the same situation, or would they eventually be shifted into new plans? it seemed from the wording if you join now it might be beneficial/discount/etc, but that could also simply be a marketing tactic. because they werent particularly clear.


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## GOLFNBEACH (Sep 14, 2007)

Steamboat Bill said:


> I still think this merger is good for the DC industry, but the cost per night will be in the $1,000 per night range.




Totally agree.  For livin' large with family and friends $1K/night may be reasonable.  For my usual vacation with the wife and 2 kids, I would like to keep the cost per night at half of that.  

It remains to be seen whether HCC or other future DCs can meet that requirement as a long term business model.


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## Steamboat Bill (Sep 14, 2007)

GOLFNBEACH said:


> Totally agree.  For livin' large with family and friends $1K/night may be reasonable.  For my usual vacation with the wife and 2 kids, I would like to keep the cost per night at half of that.
> 
> It remains to be seen whether HCC or other future DCs can meet that requirement as a long term business model.



Not to beat the same drum all the time, but this was one of the reasons why I joined HCC vs the any of the other DCs.

I can afford to pay $1,000 per night, but prefer not to spend that amount when I can get an extremely nice accommodation's for $325 per night with HCC.

For my family of four, HCC blows away any timeshare and most rentals I have previously stayed at. In addition, the DC concept is far superior than owning a second home.

I love the $2-4m properties, but think this will have a negative effect on my kids as they are tremendously overindulged just by living in Boca Raton. It is bad enough when my kids regularly get picked up for play dates in Bently's that cost more than most peoples homes.


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## Kagehitokiri (Sep 14, 2007)

i hope theyre at least arnages, instead of flying spurs  (man it seems like everyone has a chauffered arnage in London)

i certainly will never spend that much on a family car. but it would be awfully convenient to have a driver. 

im trying to plan for the other way - "overindulge" with travel, but live in a somewhat less "money" area.


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## Steamboat Bill (Sep 14, 2007)

My kids have ridden in the Arnage, Azure, and Continental.

A very good friend of mine just got a GTC (the convertible one) and I have not been in it yet.

My kids want me to trade in my wife's Pacifica for the "B car"....perhaps....NOT!


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## Kagehitokiri (Sep 14, 2007)

continental i understand is made by VW themselves now. so i probably wouldnt go with one personally.

azure. yummy. will be interesting to see how phantom convertible sales compare.

i remember recommending DB9 and F430 to someone looking at $200K sporty convertibles.

perhaps not indeed


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## LTTravel (Sep 14, 2007)

Kagehitokiri said:


> azure. mmmm.
> 
> continental i understand is made by VW themselves now. so i probably wouldnt go with one.



A powder blue continental convertible in sunny Florida or SoCal. I've seen them, and though not a color I would drive daily, boy, they look nice. Great to pick up a goldigging babe.


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## Kagehitokiri (Sep 14, 2007)

i started really liking the F430 after seeing Miami Vice 

wonder when a DC will finally start a real partnership with a car club.


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## LTTravel (Sep 14, 2007)

Kagehitokiri said:


> i started really liking the F430 after seeing Miami Vice
> 
> wonder when a DC will finally start a real partnership with a car club.



Tanner and Haley tried this, just before the bankruptcy. I think Quintess has some limited car club options with OnQ experience.


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## Steamboat Bill (Sep 14, 2007)

Kagehitokiri said:


> wonder when a DC will finally start a real partnership with a car club.



A friend of mine started Collexium and I previewed it here.

http://tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=46080&highlight=collexium

FYI...they even had a party with Exclusive Resorts in the past....


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## Kagehitokiri (Sep 14, 2007)

lttravel, interesting re onQ.

bill, IIRC thats one of the most appealing to me, saw it on helium report or luxist. 

always good to have friends in the right places  i presume its been fairly successful?

talking about the new club again >



> This winter, Stowe Mountain Resort will unite both the Mt Mansfield and Spruce Oeak ski mountains into [a] resort with state-of-the-art high speed lifts. Spruce Peak at Stowe, the mountain's base development, offers ski-in/ski-out (and golf-in/golf-out in the summer) [well thats unique ] access through...mountain cabins (starting at $2.2 million)...new 139-room Stowe Mountain Lodge (managed by Destination Hotels & Resorts). The lodge also features a Cooper Wellness Center spa...



seems prime for PE/UR tradeups or for clubs like Bellehavens/Crescendo to expand their portfolios.


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## LTTravel (Sep 14, 2007)

Figured we'd take guesses on the new name of the new company. I say it is going to be Ultimate Escapes. Any other guesses?


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## Kagehitokiri (Sep 14, 2007)

or Private Resorts?  either sound similar to ER or sound really different.

they might just choose one too. IMHO Private Escapes is better than Ultimate Resort.


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## vineyarder (Sep 14, 2007)

LTTravel said:


> Figured we'd take guesses on the new name of the new company. I say it is going to be Ultimate Escapes. Any other guesses?



My bet would have been on Ultimate Escapes, but I think that both Ultimate Escapes and Private Resorts are both already trademarked (Private Resorts by "Destinations, Private Resorts" a small DC, and Ultimate Escapes by a travel agency)...


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## LTTravel (Sep 20, 2007)

I spoke to a UR person a few days ago. I got the impression that the only way they think that they can compete with ER is with numbers, and having three tiers allows growth within the company. I wouldn't be surprised if they go after HCC after the dust settles with this merger. Then they would be up to 1600 members and no competition in the <$1 million group.


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## Kagehitokiri (Sep 20, 2007)

depending on how portofino is doing financially, that might also be a good target. they have 3 tiers right now as well.


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## GOLFNBEACH (Sep 21, 2007)

*Email From ER*

I received an email from PE today.  Benefits if I join in the next 30 days:

1. Post merger pricing going up approximately 30%
2. Membership Fee Redemption Term Upside
3. Unlimited Annual Travel (grandfathered)
4. Reciprocal Usage Benefit (grandfathered)

I'm tempted to join...


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## vivalour (Sep 21, 2007)

GOLFNBEACH said:


> I received an email from ER today.  Benefits if I join in the next 30 days:
> 
> 1. Post merger pricing going up approximately 30%
> 2. Membership Fee Redemption Term Upside
> ...



To clarify: are you referring to Private Escapes (PE) or UR (Ultimate Resorts)? If you are referring to PE/UR, I am also at the research stage but would like to move ahead soon -- just have to get a handle on the finer points that are relevant to our family and expect to call next week re all details. Could you pls explain what you mean in #2?


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## GOLFNBEACH (Sep 21, 2007)

vivalour said:


> To clarify: are you referring to Private Escapes (PE) or UR (Ultimate Resorts)? If you are referring to PE/UR, I am also at the research stage but would like to move ahead soon -- just have to get a handle on the finer points that are relevant to our family and expect to call next week re all details. Could you pls explain what you mean in #2?



Yes, I was referring to Private Escapes (PE).  I corrected my above post.

In regards to #2, you would receive 80% of the then current membership fee when you resign.  For example if you join today at $100K and resign when the future membership fee is $150K, you would receive $120K.  You would have a $20K bonus.


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## LTTravel (Sep 21, 2007)

GOLFNBEACH said:


> Yes, I was referring to Private Escapes (PE).  I corrected my above post.
> 
> In regards to #2, you would receive 80% of the then current membership fee when you resign.  For example if you join today at $100K and resign when the future membership fee is $150K, you would receive $120K.  You would have a $20K bonus.



Is this correct? UR currently has this policy to get 80% of market but PE as I understand only gives you 80% of what you pay.


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## Kagehitokiri (Sep 21, 2007)

itd be nice if PE published this information publicly... in Q&A format or something. i guess they would prefer people pay more for less after the merger is complete?

id think itd always be better to have more members paying annual fees etc, but i guess i dont know what their business model is.


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## GOLFNBEACH (Sep 21, 2007)

LTTravel said:


> Is this correct? UR currently has this policy to get 80% of market but PE as I understand only gives you 80% of what you pay.



It was in an email I received today.


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## LTTravel (Sep 21, 2007)

GOLFNBEACH said:


> It was in an email I received today.



Very interesting. I think that they are really pushing to get new members in just before the merge. I had not heard of this anywhere before.


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## travelguy (Sep 22, 2007)

*PE/UR Merger*

Since we seem to have two semi-redundant threads about the PE/UR merger, instead of double posting, here's a link to my thoughts on several due diligence questions: http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?p=395664#post395664


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## vivalour (Sep 22, 2007)

travelguy said:


> Since we seem to have two semi-redundant threads about the PE/UR merger, instead of double posting, here's a link to my thoughts on several due diligence questions: http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?p=395664#post395664



Good idea, thank you. I guess I'm on the same track as golfnbeach. I  also recently received PE's email with a list of "incentives" to get potential members to sign on in the next 30 days pre-merger. Incidentally, UR, which we also considered, has done a special pre-merger promotional email as well. 

Just wondering what the business advantage would be for this push. Why not wait to get newbies into a unifrom, post-merger structure at higher fees? When something looks so good, my suspicious feelers come out.


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## vineyarder (Sep 23, 2007)

> Just wondering what the business advantage would be for this push. Why not wait to get newbies into a unifrom, post-merger structure at higher fees? When something looks so good, my suspicious feelers come out.



Yes, it does seem odd that they would both be competing for sales pretty aggressively before the merger...  OTOH, since they don't have the details of what the post-merger program will look exactly like yet, they can't just both sell the 'final deal', yet they don't want their sales people sitting around doing nothing for 3 months... and since the whole DC industry has always used the 'price increases coming next month, get in now' as a successful sales incentive, the upcoming merger gives them an ideal opportunity to use this as a 'get in now' deal... and since people who join now are uncertain about what exactly they are joining, they have to give incentives, so as not to have a 3 month period of no sales.  Still, as long as you like both clubs (PE & UR), joining whichever you prefer now seems like a good deal, since they are still grandfathering in members joining now, and if the merger falls through, you'll still be in a club you're happy with... and if the merger does go through, then you've gotten a great deal and can choose between the deal you signed up for, or a more standardized deal that they will probably offer (with incentives) to try to align as members as possible on one system...


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