# Helicopter crash



## tompalm (Jul 25, 2013)

The news on TV is reporting this as a crash caused by engine failure.  Paradise helicopters on the big island. Crew and passengers walked away without any major injury. The weather was good, so it looks like the pilot was able to find a good place to set it down. 

http://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/Global/story.asp?S=22936073


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## daventrina (Jul 26, 2013)

Must have been really low to not have a better auto-rotation 
Hope he wasn't trying to stretch it back to the airport...


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## Kauai Kid (Jul 26, 2013)

A blessing no one was hurt.

That's why I fly fixed wing.

Sterling


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## daventrina (Jul 27, 2013)

Kauai Kid said:


> A blessing no one was hurt.
> 
> That's why I fly fixed wing.
> 
> Sterling



Yep!
Fixed wing has their own problems ... but at least if there is a mechanical problem ... usually the don't just fall out of the sky.


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## tompalm (Jul 27, 2013)

More bad news is that the passengers told the media that they heard the pilot requesting fuel prior to takeoff, but the company told him that he had enough onboard to do the flight and they never got refueled.  The FAA or the company had no comment about that.  

So it is highly possible the engine failure was caused by lack of fuel.  Maybe the gages were wrong, but that is why you always land with extra.  

They were right next to the airport when they set down.  So, maybe he thought that he was going to make it, but came up a few hundred yards short.


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## daventrina (Jul 27, 2013)

tompalm said:


> Maybe the gages were wrong, but that is why you always land with extra.


Never trust the gages ...
20 min reserve is required for day/VFR...

Unfortunately ... if it's true that the company didn't want to refuel ... the pilot will still take the hit because the safety is the responsibility of the Pilot In Command...


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## daventrina (Jun 17, 2014)

*Illinois Family Survives Hard Helicopter Landing in Waiheʻe*

Happy ending for this one... 
http://mauinow.com/2014/06/17/illinois-family-survives-hard-helicopter-landing-in-waihee/

I'd guess power train problem and auto-rotation.
Pilot seems to have done a nice job.


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## DeniseM (Jun 17, 2014)

There are waaaaaaay too many helicopter incidents in Hawaii - you will never see me and mine on one of these.  

And no, I don't want to "die happy" - I want to live and keep going back to Hawaii every year.


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## rickandcindy23 (Jun 17, 2014)

DeniseM said:


> There are waaaaaaay to many helicopter incidents in Hawaii - you will never see me and mine on one of these.
> 
> And no, I don't want to "die happy" - I want to live and keep going back to Hawaii every year.



I am with you!  Rick took his stepmom (84 years old at the time) on a helicopter tour of Maui.  I didn't go.  I didn't want them to go, either.  I worried the entire time.  Rick says I am nuts.  I am NOT.


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## Chrispee (Jun 17, 2014)

"The company sent another helicopter to retrieve the family and take them back the Kahului heliport."

Uhhh, no thanks, I think I'll just walk to the highway and hitch a ride!


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## daventrina (Jun 17, 2014)

Chrispee said:


> "The company sent another helicopter to retrieve the family and take them back the Kahului heliport."
> 
> Uhhh, no thanks, I think I'll just walk to the highway and hitch a ride!



Not likely one would break twice in the same day


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## Passepartout (Jun 17, 2014)

While helo's are not my favorite mode of transport, there are just some places and missions that no other mode will get you to. I weigh the relative 'importance'  of seeing or doing what is at the other end, with the reputation and professionalism of the carrier. 99.999% of the time, it all comes off without a hitch, but once in a while, very, very, rarely, do-do occurs. Then it comes down to preparedness and experience and quality equipment.

Jim


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## DeniseM (Jun 17, 2014)

daventrina said:


> Not likely one would break twice in the same day



Oh yeah - once when we were on vacation, two went down the same day - NO THANK YOU!


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## Roger830 (Jun 17, 2014)

Passepartout said:


> 99.999% of the time, it all comes off without a hitch
> 
> Jim



When I see percentages like that, it reminds me of the statement that there would only be a nuclear plant failure once in a million years in Japan. It makes it sound like it couldn't happen.


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## siesta (Jun 17, 2014)

I fly private frequently, most often for business.  Usually Gulfstream g550 or g650, as I typically have colleagues and/or secondary staff with me. The smallest I usually fly is in a Cessna CJ3, and that is when its usually just me, and that is not often the case.

But a month ago, I flew in a Phenom 100. It was the smallest private plane I had ever flown in, and I have to admit, I was a bit nervous ... until I opened the mini bar fridge and poured my self a drink.  I will say, it was a very smooth, and pleasant ride. However, I just feel better in a larger plane, I don't know if there is any validity to that or its just instinctual. (maybe I should ask my colleagues who handle aviation law issues for some big manufacturers)

As for helo's, there is just something about them I don't like. Maybe its what another poster mentioned, that they would just drop out of the sky. But whatever it is, they don't give me a good vibe, and I definitely wouldn't choose to fly in one just for a tour. To me, its analagous to sky diving, I have no problem jumping out of a plane, in fact if there is a need for it, I will be the first one to jump. But you won't catch me doing it for sport.

On another note, one of our senior partners doesn't like to drive or sit in traffic. He very often takes a helo to work, lands on the roof of the building. We definitely crack some jokes about that.


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## MOXJO7282 (Jun 19, 2014)

Recent report out says small air craft are much less safe than bigger and that a cover up by airplane manufacturers may be at play to actually conceal how unsafe they really are.


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## MOXJO7282 (Jun 19, 2014)

http://www.usatoday.com/longform/news/nation/2014/06/14/unfit-for-flight-part-3/10533813/

This is quite an indictment of the FAA also.


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## daventrina (Jun 20, 2014)

MOXJO7282 said:


> Recent report out says small air craft are much less safe than bigger and that a cover up by airplane manufacturers may be at play to actually conceal how unsafe they really are.



While the article "Unfit for Flight"   may raise a couple of good points, overall it is both incomplete, misleading, and flawed.
According to the National Transportation Safety Board, the number of fatalities has declined by over 40 percent since the early 1990s.

See the three articles below:

'USA Today' report 'extremely flawed,' AOPA says
“General aviation is enveloped by a robust safety system that is more extensive than any other recreational activity in the United States. This system addresses everything from aircraft certification to pilot training, aircraft maintenance and flight operations. This results in a general aviation system that provides for 21 million flight hours annually while carrying 170 million passengers per year safely and efficiently.

“In comparison to other forms of recreational transportation, the annual number of fatalities for general aviation is about 30 percent fewer of that of the recreational boating industry, and not even 10 percent of motorcycles.”

USA Today Misrepresents GA Accidents, Misleads Public


Unfit for Publication: How USA Today Got Everything Wrong


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## luv_maui (Jun 20, 2014)

rickandcindy23 said:


> I am with you!  Rick took his stepmom (84 years old at the time) on a helicopter tour of Maui.  I didn't go.  I didn't want them to go, either.  I worried the entire time.  Rick says I am nuts.  I am NOT.



We took a tour 22 years ago.  As we were about to take-off, weather was getting bad, and we questioned whether to go up.  Pilot stated wouldn't be a problem and he wouldn't take off unless it was safe.

We had to hold onto our lunches from blowing away when we got to our nice secluded lunch location and couldn't see very much in the wind and rain.  Well......another helicopter up at the same time crashed and everyone died.

We were offered another tour when I requested our money back.  After threatening to sue our money was refunded.  We will not go on another helicopter tour.


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## Kauai Kid (Jun 20, 2014)

*HI Helicopter Statistics*

21 Year Sightseeing Tour Accident Summary
Related
Oahu Helicopter Tours
Kauai Helicopter Tours
Hawaii Transportation
Hawaii Weather
Hawaii Island Hopping
Hawaii Gifts & Souvenirs
Hawaii Nature Center
Hawaii Whale Watching Tips
Hawaii Helicopter Crashes
Warning: (Nov 2011) Blue Hawaiian has another fatal crash (5 deaths) in their EC130 helicopter. Meanwhile, the A-Star 350 continues it’s perfect safety record with Safari Helicopters and Air Maui.
Hawaii Helicopter Crash
Heli USA is no longer operating in Hawaii (Photo Credit: Dennis Fujimoto, 2007)
Hawaii Helicopter Tour Accident Statistics
When researching Hawaii helicopter tours, safety is of the utmost importance. You don’t want to ruin your Hawaii vacation (and more importantly lose your life) because you chose a helicopter company that didn’t put safety first.
Aloha Hawaii does not guarantee the safety of any helicopter tour, but when we take a Hawaii helicopter ride, we definitely take into strong consideration a companies past tour operating history.
The following Hawaii helicopter crash statistics are provided by NSTB (National Transportation Safety Board). Companies WITH and WITHOUT crashes are represented. Companies no longer doing tours are not included.
Note: These accident statistics are for helicopter tours only. Commercial work is much riskier and these types of accidents are not included.
Alex Air
Accidents
10/11/1995
10/14/1996
11/12/1996
NSTB Report #
LAX96LA009
LAX06IA011
LAX97LA039
Damage
Substantial
Substantial
Substantial
Injuries/Death
4 Minor Injuries
None
None
Islands Served: Maui
Air Maui (Aris, Inc.)
Accidents
None
Islands Served: Maui
Blue Hawaiian
Accidents
07/21/2000
07/08/2004
01/05/2006
11/16/2009
11/10/2011
NSTB Report #
LAX00MA273
LAX04LA256
LAX06LA080
Not Reported*
WPR12MA034
Damage
Substantial
Substantial
Substantial
Minor
Substantial
Injuries/Death
7 Fatal
1 Minor
2 Minor
None
5 Fatal
Islands Served: Maui, Kauai, Big Island & Oahu
*No NTSB Record but reported in Maui News on 11/17/2009 with passenger’s Letter to Editor on 12/03/2009 describing engine failure and autorotation into cane field.
Island Helicopters
Accidents
06/06/1991
NSTB Report #
LAX91LA248
Damage
Substantial
Injuries/Death
3 Serious, 1 Minor
Islands Served: Kauai
Inter-Island Helicopters
Accidents
06/23/1990
06/23/1990
04/18/1994
03/11/07
NSTB Report #
LAX90FA230A
LAX90FA230B
LAX94FA197
CHI07MA083
Damage
Mid-Air
Mid-Air
Substantial
Substantial
Injuries/Death
None
None
1 Fatal; 4 Serious
1 Fatal; 3 Serious
Islands Served: Kauai
Jack Harter Helicopters
Accidents
07/23/2003
NSTB Report #
LAX03FA241
Damage
Substantial
Injuries/Death
5 Fatal
Islands Served: Kauai
Safari Helicopters
Accidents
None
Islands Served: Kauai & Big Island
Sunshine Helicopters
Accidents
08/24/1999
04/01/2000
09/09/2003
01/10/2006
04/20/2007
NSTB Report #
LAX99LA282
LAX00LA167
LAX03LA297
LAX06LA072
SEA07LA110
Damage
Substantial
Substantial
Substantial
Substantial
Substantial
Injuries/Death
None
None
None
1 Serious
1 Serious; 4 Minor
Islands Served: Maui, Big Island & Kauai
Tropical & Paradise Helicopters (K&S Helicopters)
Accidents
09/29/2001
06/15/2003
01/21/2005
10/02/2006
02/07/2008
11/20/2009
NSTB Report #
LAX01FA306
LAX03FA200
LAX05LA074
LAX07LA002
SEA08FA071
WPR10LA060
Damage
Substantial
Substantial
Substantial
Substantial
Substantial
Substantial
Injuries/Death
2 Minor
4 Fatal
None
2 Minor
5 Minor
None
Islands Served: Big Island & Oahu
© 1997-2011 Aloha from Hawaii


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## MOXJO7282 (Jun 20, 2014)

daventrina said:


> While the article "Unfit for Flight"   may raise a couple of good points, overall it is both incomplete, misleading, and flawed.
> According to the National Transportation Safety Board, the number of fatalities has declined by over 40 percent since the early 1990s.
> 
> See the three articles below:
> ...



Seems to me that the death rate could have drop even more if they weren't worried about airplane profits.

This grandfathering of parts safety back to the design phase seems absurd. The example that a hawk flew through a windshield and killed 8 because windshield was still weak plexi from basic design and not up to today's standard but was grandfathered in is a perfect example. 

Seems like someone is doing the "value of a life" equation where its cheaper to pay off victims than to correct problem.


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## SnowDogDad (Jun 21, 2014)

daventrina said:


> I'd guess power train problem and auto-rotation.
> Pilot seems to have done a nice job.



I am probably the only person on this board to walk away from a helicopter engine failure.  And statistically a safe bet to fly with.   

In my younger days, I was convinced I wanted to be a helicopter pilot.  I hung out at the airports, got to know all of the helo pilots, did ride-alongs, took lessons, and actually got my private pilots's license.  I'd ferry helicopters from one city to another, do ride-alongs, anything to get some hours. 

On a ferry flight with 3 people onboard a Hughes 300, the engine block exploded and we went down like a streamlined rock.   There was a far more experienced pilot in the co-pilot seat, but his controls had been removed, so I took the helo all the way to the ground and successfully auto-rotated in the the middle of a cow pasture.

I don't fly helos any longer, but still love them.  And, there is a LOT that can go wrong with them.  Altitude and air speed will keep you out of trouble provided you have some place on the ground you can go.  Unfortunately, a lot of sightseeing helicopter tours are going low and slow and don't have a lot of options when the unexpected happens.


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## Kauai Kid (Jun 21, 2014)

Safest & cheapest way to get a helicopter tour of an Hawaiian Island is to buy one of their videos, sit in front of a fan, and plug the video into a rented 150" plasma monitor and be sure and sit real close to the monitor so it will seem like you are the pilot. 

:hysterical:

Sterling


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## daventrina (Jun 23, 2014)

MOXJO7282 said:


> This grandfathering of parts safety back to the design phase seems absurd. The example that a hawk flew through a windshield and killed 8 because windshield was still weak plexi from basic design and not up to today's standard but was grandfathered in is a perfect example.



While it seems straightforward... it isn't that simple.
If you replace the Plexi with Lexan it then comes with a different set of problems. It would be nice if there were a product that exhibited the good characteristics if both products and not the bad characteristics of either, but there isn't one. We went through this specific evaluation when building our aircraft. Its windshield is plexi, so the question was why don't they use lexan as it seemed straightforward to use lexan instead of plexi. As it turned out the question isn't that simple and we opted to not change to plexi.

All aircraft, except those registered as experimental amature build, are certifited via Part 23. Wherein the same certification process that applies to a jumbo jet applies to small aircraft. This involves a lot of $$$ and time.

Several years ago Light Sport aircraft were created by the FAA. These aircraft are not certified using the same Part 23 process. They are certified via a ASTM process wherein accepted engineering procedures are applied. This significant;y reduces both the cost and time while at the same time in many cases improving safety. The FAA is currently working on a new process where most small aircraft would be certificated using this process. Right now, AOA (Angle Of Attack) displays are being certified for many small aircraft using this process making these devices available for certified aircraft at significantly less cost. The hope is that many low speed maneuvering accidents can be prevented with this instrumentation.

More specifically, the "grandfathering" process is not as bad as it was made to look in the article. While it may seem like a bad idea to use parts, processes, etc that have been around for many years, these "grandfathered" they have been tested, tried, and improved over many years.  And what the article didn't say is that all parts are not necessarily "grandfathered". There are many many times where the FAA has issued an "Airworthiness Directive" requiring parts to be replaced. Sometimes immediately other times at the next inspection or after a certain number of hours.


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