# [2009] Russell Kanner - Timeshare King



## csudell (Dec 7, 2009)

spoke to him tonight.  he seems to be having luck selling units.  his selling prices are very reasonable but the commissions (approx 40%) kill much profit for sellers.


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## DeniseM (Dec 7, 2009)

40% commission!  Ouch!  What's the minimum?

Does he charge an upfront fee?

I would take his reported "luck with sales" with a grain of salt - since he sees you as a potential client, he is not going to tell you how bad the resale market really is right now.


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## James1975NY (Dec 8, 2009)

Resale brokerages (according to ARDA) typically get anywhere from 10%-30% of the sales price as commissions. Depending on the ability to effectively sell your ownership, 40%,  although on the high end may not be all that bad.

There are cases where the overall pricing of the ownreship (to sell) needs to be so low that even a minimum brokerage fee could seem like a high commission.

As an example, if a brokerage has a minimum fee of $1000 and the property can only sell for $2000, you are looking at 50% commission. I can see where that looks high but remember, the process, liability etc for a brokerage is the same on this property as it would be on one that could sell for $6k (Seller nets $5k, commission is 16% of the sales price).

Depends on whether or not you want a brokerage to handle the sale which can be time consuming for a sale in the Bahamas...... and tricky if you do not know what you are doing.


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## CeeWoo (Dec 8, 2009)

DeniseM said:


> Does he charge an upfront fee?.



To me, that would be the big question.  And no matter what some of those guys want to call it ANYTHING paid in advance is an upfront fee in my book (and make me run away from their offers)


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## DeniseM (Dec 8, 2009)

Yes, let me reword - was the commission 40%, or was the minimum commission 40% of the resale value of the resort you are trying to sell?


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## csudell (Dec 10, 2009)

40% commission if he sells.  if he sells a $4500 property, seller gets $2880.
nothing upfront.


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## Dave H (Dec 11, 2009)

I can tell you he mainly sells Harborside and seems to have no problem putting buyers and sellers together.  I have done his closings for the past year and he is by far the one that we see Harborsides the most from.

$4500 sale, net $2800 or a $1700 commission is not that uncommon from any of the resale companies.  You have to understand that they have overhead to do what they do and there is no up front fee.

He has the buyers, he has the sellers and is the one of the most respected Agents that handle Harborside.

If your worried about the $1700 commission, then you would really be shocked to see what closing costs are on the island.

Dave


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## riverdees05 (Dec 11, 2009)

What are the closing costs?  I had heard before that they are really high which is one reason that I have stayed away.


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## Twinkstarr (Dec 11, 2009)

Dave H said:


> I can tell you he mainly sells Harborside and seems to have no problem putting buyers and sellers together.  I have done his closings for the past year and he is by far the one that we see Harborsides the most from.
> 
> $4500 sale, net $2800 or a $1700 commission is not that uncommon from any of the resale companies.  You have to understand that they have overhead to do what they do and there is no up front fee.
> 
> ...




Dave aren't the closing costs in the $2,000 range if I remember my talks with Russell.


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## ace2000 (Dec 11, 2009)

csudell said:


> 40% commission if he sells. if he sells a $4500 property, seller gets $2880.
> nothing upfront.


 


Or, if some of you are having trouble with the math...  if he sells a $1 property, seller gets $.40.  and nothing upfront.

That example is more applicable to my weeks...  :hysterical:


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## ace2000 (Dec 11, 2009)

Also, just curious...  how do you earn the title 'Timeshare King' anyhow?


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## DeniseM (Dec 11, 2009)

ace2000 said:


> Also, just curious...  how do you earn the title 'Timeshare King' anyhow?



Self-imposed - look at his webpage!


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## James1975NY (Dec 11, 2009)

Twinkstarr said:


> Dave aren't the closing costs in the $2,000 range if I remember my talks with Russell.



It depends on the sales price. I would imagine that the sale of this ownership would be priced right around where the commission is (approx $1.6k).

I have done a number of sales for the Harborside Resort as well - mostly for properties priced around $10k or more.


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## Dave H (Dec 11, 2009)

Twinkstarr said:


> Dave aren't the closing costs in the $2,000 range if I remember my talks with Russell.



Closing costs vary by purchase price....  I have a website about Harborside Closings that breaks down the different fees, but most have run in the 1300-1800 price range.

Dave


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## yumdrey (Dec 12, 2009)

For bahama properties, bahama attorney should be involved for closing, and the closing cost Russell (TS king) told me last time was around $2,300.


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## Dave H (Dec 12, 2009)

yumdrey said:


> For bahama properties, bahama attorney should be involved for closing, and the closing cost Russell (TS king) told me last time was around $2,300.



Bahama's attorneys have to be involved in every real estate transaction.  Those that know me know we have a way of closing them quicker since we handle all the paperwork for the attorney and they handle the recordings.

We are typically recorded and Starwood notifiied in less than 30 days from the time we get the file.

Unless your sale is over about 36,000 my fees are under the 2k mark


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## sjuhawk_jd (Dec 12, 2009)

csudell said:


> spoke to him tonight.  he seems to be having luck selling units.  his selling prices are very reasonable but the commissions (approx 40%) kill much profit for sellers.



There are no profits for seller of any timeshare owner (unless you are a postcard company, but then they usually are not the owners). Therefore, approx 40% commissions adds to the losses even more.


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## ciscogizmo1 (Dec 12, 2009)

I recently sold another timeshare I think I got it for a pretty good price.  It was about 30% less of what we had paid for it originally and we had it for 5 years.  We bought it preconstruction.  I think, selling a timeshare has a lot to do with luck.  I just happen to find a buyer who wanted this particular resort, etc...  So, I just happened to be at the right place at the right time, etc...  

But 40% commission is a lot if you ask me.  YIKES...  if he was successful in selling my WKORV unit I'd use him but I can't imagine paying 40% commission.  So, if he sold my WKORV for $30,000 then, I'd only get 18,000.  That doesn't seem like a good deal to me.

I think, with all the Starwood issues we are having.... I'm ready to jump ship.  I don't think things are going to improve which is ashame because it is just a beautiful resort but I'd have to get a really good  price for it.


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## Dave H (Dec 12, 2009)

ciscogizmo1 said:


> I recently sold another timeshare I think I got it for a pretty good price.  It was about 30% less of what we had paid for it originally and we had it for 5 years.  We bought it preconstruction.  I think, selling a timeshare has a lot to do with luck.  I just happen to find a buyer who wanted this particular resort, etc...  So, I just happened to be at the right place at the right time, etc...
> 
> But 40% commission is a lot if you ask me.  YIKES...  if he was successful in selling my WKORV unit I'd use him but I can't imagine paying 40% commission.  So, if he sold my WKORV for $30,000 then, I'd only get 18,000.  That doesn't seem like a good deal to me.
> 
> I think, with all the Starwood issues we are having.... I'm ready to jump ship.  I don't think things are going to improve which is ashame because it is just a beautiful resort but I'd have to get a really good  price for it.



I think the 40% used in the above was based on the selling price.  I have never seen Russell or any timeshare sales person make 12k in commissions on any deal and I have had a fair share of high priced deals.

Before everyone jumps on the 40% band wagon, I suggest you talk with any agent to see what their fee is.  To say it is 40% on every deal is just wrong.

I have seen deals where the seller sold for a $1 and the sales prices was $501.  Does that mean the sales company makes 100% on every deal?

Just like closing costs vary on each deal, I am sure commissions do as well.


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## Fredm (Dec 12, 2009)

Dave H said:


> I think the 40% used in the above was based on the selling price.  I have never seen Russell or any timeshare sales person make 12k in commissions on any deal and I have had a fair share of high priced deals.
> 
> Before everyone jumps on the 40% band wagon, I suggest you talk with any agent to see what their fee is.  To say it is 40% on every deal is just wrong.
> 
> ...



Dave, I agree. 
$1,700 is not out of line. It just happens to represent 40% of this transaction.

For example, our minimum commission irrespective of final sale price, is $1500. So, it would represent 50% of a $3,000 sale.


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## ciscogizmo1 (Dec 14, 2009)

Dave H said:


> I think the 40% used in the above was based on the selling price.  I have never seen Russell or any timeshare sales person make 12k in commissions on any deal and I have had a fair share of high priced deals.
> 
> Before everyone jumps on the 40% band wagon, I suggest you talk with any agent to see what their fee is.  To say it is 40% on every deal is just wrong.
> 
> ...


  Okay... I can see how the OP may not have know that.  Thanks for clearing that up.  I just might see what he has to say about WKORV.  I think, I'm ready to sell..


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## Lonnyzone (Jan 4, 2010)

*Russell Kanner*

I bought a Harborside 3 bedroom Platinum (192k Options) through him.

Nice enough guy, got the job done. I didn't get ripped off.


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## foreverloves (Jul 16, 2011)

Search function isn't working and since this is a thread that is attached to the write-up about "The Timeshare King", I wanted to add this.

He may be good at Harborside, but he had a Marriott (post 6/20 non eligible for DC and EOY to boot!) that he had listed for a fair price, but not great.  I went through the TUG sales databases and found a few that were sold at lower prices and made an offer.

Got a real snarky response!  Basically "Price is not negotiable" (WHAT??) and "you'll never find one at that price".  WOW!  What salesmanship!  I wonder if the owner of that unit knows that they got an offer at 60-70% of asking price?

Maybe he should consider changing his name.  The answer I got wasn't really deserving of "royalty"!!


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## jarta (Jul 16, 2011)

foreverloves,   ...   It appears your offer will have to go up or you will have to buy elsewhere.

I guess you do not understand who the broker works for.  The broker on a real estate transaction has a duty to the seller (the person who has agreed to pay the broker's commission) to get the highest price.  The broker has no duty to sell to a purchaser at the lowest price.

You said the asking price was fair, but not great.  You offer at 60-70% of that fair price.  And, it didn't work!  Your offer was rejected without a counteroffer.  

So, it's your step next.  Posting here about the negotiating posture of the broker is not a next step that will get you the unit you want.

All sellers who have properties listed for sale with Kanner are probably smiling to themselves about this one.   ...   eom


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## csudell (Jul 17, 2011)

*timeshare king*

foreverloves, 

As you'll see from some of my other posts, I've never had bad experiences with Russell Kanner.  He is very knowledgable and he would know what his sellers would accept and would not accept.  He also understands that Ebay prices dont reflect what many sellers will accept.  Many Tuggers use Ebay to get bargains.  We dont use Ebay to sell our timeshares unless we really just want to get rid of them.  I know you didnt refer to Ebay, not sure what database you were referring to but I know there are a lot of referrals to price on Ebay that we pick up.  

I've bought and sold through Russell and would recommend him 100% to anyone without hesitation.  As a team, he and Dave Heine make things very easy for the buyer and seller.  I'm sorry you didnt have a good experience with him.  

I hate to agree with Jarta,  but perhaps the price, while you thought it was fair, wasnt.   When Russell (or any broker) sells a timeshare, they are taking their commission off the top.  So, if a timeshare is listed at 1000 and you are offering even 70%, the buyer is only going to get 490.  That's less than half of the advertised price.  I think its easy to see why that kind of offer may not be acceptable.


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## Westin5Star (Jul 17, 2011)

The comment that I think was in bad taste was "and you'll never find one at that price".  I try very hard not to use the term "never" as I usually end up looking like a fool when I do.  The broker could have easily been more gracious in refusing the offer.  I have worked with FredM many times (and I haven't always been in agreement with him).  I will say that FredM has been very professional and I could not imagine him making such a comment to me.  I would expect him to say something like "I haven't seen a price that low or you might have difficulty securing that property for that price".

If I were the buyer, I would find one at that price and then send proof to The Timeshare King.  I would then do everything that I could to make known my purchase price to all of his potential buyers!!!  If he was hurt in his wallet over a poor and inappropriate comment maybe he would be more polite and honest in the future.

I "never" thought that I would see 3BR Pool Villas at WSJ selling for $5k.  I "never" thought that I would see OFD at WKORV selling for what they are today.  The Timeshare King's experience the past few years with the dramatic reduction in TS pricing should prevent him from making such comments; and I am assuming that he has not ever heard of ebay.


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## LisaRex (Jul 18, 2011)

Come on, he's dubbed himself the "Timeshare King."  We can pretty much assume from the get go that he's not the most professional of brokers anyway. 

Secondly, unless directed otherwise by the owner, IMO he really should be presenting any and all offers to the owner, even if it's just to share a laugh.  When I bought my OF unit at WKORV-N directly from an owner, another real estate agent remarked that the price I got was "unheard of" at the time.  And yet, that's what we agreed upon. (And soon thereafter, the price that I'd gotten was no longer unheard of.) 

IMO, owners should be made aware of all offers for several reasons.  First of all, a few hundred bucks may not be as important to them as the next MF bill.  Secondly, it allows them to get a feel for what the market is doing. "Fair market value" is a fluid number and the trend is down.  So let the owner get an honest feel for the market by presenting all offers so he can make a decision based on that.  After looking at some of the prices on resale websites, it's clear that more than a few owners need a reality check.


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## sjuhawk_jd (Jul 18, 2011)

*My take on this guy*

I have had phone and email discussions with this broker. I have also spoken to another lady through TUG who purchased from him. We both agreed that he is "Full of himself." That attitude works with people who are new and not very informed on both buying and selling. I find that attitude not good for smart folks here on TUG. 

Maybe a nice guy, maybe an honest broker, but cocky and "full of himself."


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## C30NY (Aug 21, 2011)

I spoke with Russel once when searching around and he was the most ARROGANT person I have ever dealt with.  Regardless of the way he runs his business (legit or not), he is NOT the type of person I would do business with.  Cocky and arrogant do not begin to describe his phone demeanor...and obviously his self proclaimed "time share king" status says it all.  I am being very polite when I wrote the prior...you should hear my wife as i brought back her memories and dealings with him.  

AVOID him if possible is all I can say.


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## Twinkstarr (Aug 22, 2011)

csudell said:


> foreverloves,
> 
> As you'll see from some of my other posts, I've never had bad experiences with Russell Kanner.  He is very knowledgable and he would know what his sellers would accept and would not accept.  He also understands that Ebay prices dont reflect what many sellers will accept.  Many Tuggers use Ebay to get bargains.  We dont use Ebay to sell our timeshares unless we really just want to get rid of them.  I know you didnt refer to Ebay, not sure what database you were referring to but I know there are a lot of referrals to price on Ebay that we pick up.
> 
> ...



I wouldn't hesitate to give Russell a call to talk about an HRA unit again. I actually enjoyed talking with him. We ended up talking auto racing and months after we talked he emailed me pictures he had taken at Daytona during the Rolex 24 and Speedweeks. 

We were looking at a 2br Plat unit phase II and his unit was priced at the low end of what I had seen from other brokers.


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