# Mandatory Resorts and Flex Program



## BluePrelude (Aug 27, 2015)

I am new at posting, and I am sorry if this is being addressed before, but I am trying to buy resale away from the Flex Program.

I understand that if you buy a Mandatory Resort you get StarOption you could potentially use on a different resort (SVN), but my confusion is some of those Mandatory Resorts from the past are now part of the Flex Program, and that program now offers HomeOptions (that become StarOptions 8 months out)...

What are my choices for Mandatory Resorts, including the ones in the Flex Program?

At this point, I am not even sure which Resorts are Mandatory.


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## LisaRex (Aug 27, 2015)

We don't know a whole lot about the flex program.  We believe that the new SheratonFlex program's resort selection is identical to SVN.  Whether that will remain the case moving forward remains to be seen.  The only two ways that Starwood can overlay the points program on top of the deeded week program is to acquire deeded weeks and convert them into the points program, or build resorts from scratch and sell them as flex resorts from the get go (e.g. WSJ-Coral Vista).

They can acquire weeks in a multitude of ways.  They can exercise Right of First Refusal on resorts that have ROFR.  They can buy resale weeks on the open market.  They can accept deeds back from owners who want to abandon their VOIs.  They can foreclose on owners who aren't paying their MFs or loan.  Or they can convert the weeks that they own outright. 

If you want to buy resale away from the Flex program, you just have to do what you would have done before the Flex program was introduced, and that is to buy a resale week from an existing owner.  If that resort has Right of First Refusal, Starwood might exercise that right.  If the resort doesn't have ROFR, it's yours. 

Your choices for mandatory resorts haven't changed.  

The only current way to join the Flex program is to buy from the developer.  We won't see resale points sales for awhile since the program is still in its infancy. 

We don't know what the long-term implication is going to be for deeded week SVN owners.  In theory, there is no impact because for every week that is pulled out of SVN, there is an owner who cannot exchange in SVN.  In reality, there are numerous ways that Starwood can manipulate the inventory to favor one program over the other.  

An example? Starwood coded the entire float season at Westin Ka'anapali as platinum season.  So they could buy up just 16 weeks of contracts and control all of February, March, June and July, which are arguably the 16 most popular weeks of the year.


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## BluePrelude (Aug 27, 2015)

Lisa, thank you for your reply... 

We own a 2b/2b in Vistana Resort right now, and we had intended to buy an extra week this year to get not only the StarOptions but the SPG points, I know most people don't like them, but we use them constantly because we have been travelling to many places where SPG hotels have been our home away from home... 

That been said, we almost never use our week in Orlando, because we prefer to stay at the Swan & Dolphin. We were thinking about buying Vistana Beach Club, mostly to add points to our portfolio... but that went out the window when the price to buy a 2b/2b almost doubled because now they are part of the Flex Program... ugh... 

So we are shopping for resale properties now, hoping that we will be able to use the Starpoints that will come with that purchase, to get a week in Hawaii or St John...  And at a later day, retro them into a future purchase with the developers...  Can that even be possible?

At this point, we are not happy (well mostly me) with the Flex Program. We didn't sign up for any of the properties lumped together with our Vistana Resort, and now it feels we don't own real estate but a share of a program. So we don't want to buy more 'shares'... I rather have something that for as small as it is, it is ours to do what we want (sell, rent, give, will, etc...) 

After doing the research in this forum, I realized we need to buy Mandatory Resort weeks in either Harborside at Atlantis (HRA), Vistana Villages (SVV or SKW), Westin St John (Virgin Grand - Hillside Only), Westin Ka'anapali and Westin Ka'anapali-North, Westin Kierland Villas. (please correct me if I am wrong)

If I don't buy a Mandatory Week, I get the week but I won't get the StarOptions to trade within Starwood Vacation Network, and I will need to use Interval or RCI (please correct me if I am wrong )

Sorry for the long reply, but our simple buy became more complicated because of the Flex Program, and now we are in the resale market that is completely new to us.

Thank you for all your help.


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## LisaRex (Aug 27, 2015)

> So we are shopping for resale properties now, hoping that we will be able to use the Starpoints that will come with that purchase, to get a week in Hawaii or St John... And at a later day, retro them into a future purchase with the developers... Can that even be possible?



First of all, you mean StarOptions, as those come with a resale purchase. StarPoints (hotel points) do not. 

If you're already in the Flex program, I don't know if FlexPoints can be combined with StarOptions.  I've read that FlexPoints convert to StarOptions at 8 months, but I'm not certain of this.  It's certainly a question to ask. 

The other assumptions you make are correct.


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## DeniseM (Aug 27, 2015)

It is almost never a good value to convert a timeshare to StarPOINTS (hotel points.)  

If you factor in your upfront cost and your maintenance fees, you will find that when you convert to StarPOINTS, you are paying far more than you would if you just paid for the hotel rooms.

I do NOT think you are a good candidate to buy more timeshares or Flexoptions.

Are you aware that you can get virtually free Starpoints by signing up for a Starwood AMEX and using it for all your spending?  

We use ours for every cent we spend, pay it off every month (no interest) and accumulate a significant number of Starpoints - the only cost is our yearly credit card fee of around $90.

Timesharing works best and is the most cost effective, when you use it for timeshare stays.


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## BluePrelude (Aug 27, 2015)

Denise, 

that is exactly what we are doing right now... and we use as many SPG points as we earn... we really travel a lot. One of the reasons we wanted to buy through the developer is to get the 4 certificates that usually come with purchases, plus the extra SPG points that come as an incentive... but yes, they don't come cheap at all.

They are just so many days we can take vacations in a year, we are not completely retired yet, and we were thinking of maybe renting out some of our weeks in the future to offset the Maintenance Fees. If we decide to go that route, buying resale is the way to go. (please correct me if I am wrong)

Lisa

Thank you for your corrections, I meant to say StarOptions
As for the FlexPoints... ugh... I have been reading some of your posts and I am concerned Vistana Experience will the sold to a 3rd party as well... and I really don't want to lose my SPG points... grrr.... So I guess, I am trying to grab at straws and keep myself in the Starwood part of the system... I don't know if that will make any difference at the end, but I have to try.


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## Henry M. (Aug 27, 2015)

Lately I'm staying less and less in hotels and prefer to rent through VRBO. The hotel experience just doesn't compare to having an apartment with a small kitchen and washer and drier. I went as far as canceling a stay on points in Madrid, Spain in favor of renting for 100€/night for the much better location and convenience. It is much better for me to rent out my WKORV weeks and get an apartment for my trips, than to stay on hotel points.


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## BluePrelude (Aug 28, 2015)

emuyshondt,
You make a good point. I will price VRBO against staying in one of the Starwood hotels. We usually take short trips, and that was the reason why we were using Hotels instead of apartments, but it makes sense to have the convenience of a kitchen, washer and drier.


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## Henry M. (Aug 28, 2015)

I still use hotel points for short stays or for staying in a hotel room to align my frequent traveller airline tickets with timeshare stays. For anything over 2 nights or so, I prefer to rent an apartment. In larger cities, such apartments are often better situated and much more interesting than the nicer luxury hotels. Same for some resort destinations.

Henry


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## YYJMSP (Aug 28, 2015)

BluePrelude said:


> One of the reasons we wanted to buy through the developer is to get the 4 certificates that usually come with purchases, plus the extra SPG points that come as an incentive... but yes, they don't come cheap at all.



You're going to pay an extra $20K for the developer unit to get 4x 100K SPG points.  You'll get to purchase those 400K points at a discount of ~1.5c/pt vs the standard 3.5c/pt rate, which would make your savings ~$6K

Factor in 100K points for free as the purchase bonus (say a value of ~$3.5K at the standard 3.5c/pt rate)

Total savings is less than ~$10K, for which you paid $20K.

Does that make sense?


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## tahoeJoe (Aug 28, 2015)

LisaRex said:


> If that resort has Right of First Refusal, Starwood might exercise that right.  If the resort doesn't have ROFR, it's yours.



Does anyone have a list of resorts WITHOUT ROFR?


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## lizap (Aug 28, 2015)

The Starwood resorts with ROFR are WKORV, WKORVN,WPORV, and WMH.




tahoeJoe said:


> Does anyone have a list of resorts WITHOUT ROFR?


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## BluePrelude (Aug 29, 2015)

YYJMSP,
You are speaking my husband's tongue... lol... that was one of the points he made... so that is why we were looking into buying resale...


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## BluePrelude (Aug 29, 2015)

Lisa,
Just to be sure, that means that all the other resorts (minus WKORV, WKORVN,WPORV, and WMH) do not have ROFR?


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## YYJMSP (Aug 29, 2015)

BluePrelude said:


> YYJMSP,
> You are speaking my husband's tongue... lol... that was one of the points he made... so that is why we were looking into buying resale...



I'm not saying the certificates are a bad thing, in fact, they can be good as an "added bonus" if you're already buying a developer unit anyways, and need a whole whack of SPG points for some ridiculously priced trip (suites in Europe, South Pacific, etc) at a no worse discounted price than if you'd gotten the points another way (purchase from SPG direct, convert a unit)

On their own, they're not a good enough reason to buy a developer unit.

We've used 3 certificates I think over the years, each time to "top up" before a month-long Europe trip...


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## vacationtime1 (Aug 29, 2015)

BluePrelude said:


> Lisa,
> Just to be sure, that means that all the other resorts (minus WKORV, WKORVN,WPORV, and WMH) do not have ROFR?



I know that Kierland does not have ROFR.


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## lizap (Aug 29, 2015)

Found this info. in the sticky at the top.  I have no reason to believe anything has changed.  



BluePrelude said:


> Lisa,
> Just to be sure, that means that all the other resorts (minus WKORV, WKORVN,WPORV, and WMH) do not have ROFR?


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## BluePrelude (Aug 31, 2015)

Can you recommend a site (besides tuggs). Where you can buy resale for mandatory properties?


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## DeniseM (Aug 31, 2015)

BluePrelude said:


> Can you recommend a site (besides tuggs). Where you can buy resale for mandatory properties?



Just so you know - It's "TUG" = Timeshare Users Group

Timeshare classified websites:

ebay
Redweek
www.myresortnetwork.com

Reputable brokers who are Tuggers:

Syed Sarmad (TUG user name Syed)
www.advantagevacation.com

Fred Messreni (TUG user name FredM)
www.timeshare-gallery.com

Seth Nock (TUG user name the same)
www.sellingtimeshares.net

Judi Kozlowski (TUG user name the same)
www.timeshareresalepros.com


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## DavidnRobin (Aug 31, 2015)

RedWeek.com - but has a small fee (helps to prevent scammers)


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## taterhed (Aug 31, 2015)

> Can you recommend a site (besides tuggs). Where you can buy resale for mandatory properties?


 I used Samuel at Sellingtimeshares...
He is easy to work and talk with. Give him a shout...he will share his opinions.

As pointed out by Denise (and others) Mandatory resorts in SVN come with significant costs, both in purchase and maintenance fees. Just a thought. Rarely makes sense to buy more timeshares you won't actually use without a very clear business plan. 

good luck.

Seth Nock (TUG user name the same)
www.sellingtimeshares.net


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## DeniseM (Aug 31, 2015)

taterhed said:


> Keep in mind; for timeshares with (essentially) zero value, there typically isn't a lot of broker activity. Of course, there are many SVN resorts with mucho value.



Please note that the OP is looking for a mandatory resort.  Except for SVV - they have significant resale value.


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## taterhed (Aug 31, 2015)

DeniseM said:


> Please note that the OP is looking for a mandatory resort. Except for SVV - they have significant resale value.



Noted:  I had visions of Bella/Key West in my head.

 Don't forget:  somebody just gave away a WKV for free this month in bargains.  It was generous, but it was there.  So were the MF's.


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## DeniseM (Aug 31, 2015)

taterhed said:


> Noted:  I had visions of Bella/Key West in my head.
> 
> Don't forget:  somebody just gave away a WKV for free this month in bargains.  It was generous, but it was there.  So were the MF's.



That was an off-season week with low Staroptions.  

That's not what the OP wants to buy, because the off-season weeks have far fewer Staroptions, but the *same MF at a high season week*.  When buying a mandatory resale week, you want Plat, or whatever the highest season at the resort is.


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## DavidnRobin (Aug 31, 2015)

And a reason the Flex was started by SVO (VSE)


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## vacationtime1 (Aug 31, 2015)

Then why didn't Starwood (SVN/VSE/etc.) require different numbers of points for different weeks of usage at Nanea?  Clearly week 7 is more desirable than weeks 48-50 and logically should be more expensive to use.

Marriott did this and sells points in buckets of 250 (ie. 1500, 2000, 3750, etc) rather than trying to match the number of Destination Points to the number of points necessary to reserve any particular unit for any particular week.

I think Starwood is still trying to sell the concept of "a week at Nanea" rather than the pure points product Marriott now pushes.


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## DeniseM (Aug 31, 2015)

Starwood considers Hawaii to be Plat season year round.  There are no off-season weeks according to SW.


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## taterhed (Aug 31, 2015)

DeniseM said:


> It is almost never a good value to convert a timeshare to StarPOINTS (hotel points.)
> 
> If you factor in your upfront cost and your maintenance fees, you will find that when you convert to StarPOINTS, you are paying far more than you would if you just paid for the hotel rooms.
> 
> ...



Even better when you use what you own.
Sorry for the earlier distracting comments. I'm going to bow out of this discussion...I don't want to distract from the OP's thread. 

Having said that, think Denise gave very sound advice (above and throughout). SVN has some wonderful resorts, great traders and very desirable locations. Some come with hefty MF's and some steep acquisition costs as well; choose carefully. Because the Vistana/SVN/Westin/Flex brand-system seems to be in a state of change right now, I personally wouldn't invest until the dust settles. Again, Samuel and Seth's group are great to work with...and the others are respected on TUG as well. I hope you find a solution that works for you.


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## tschwa2 (Aug 31, 2015)

> I think Starwood is still trying to sell the concept of "a week at Nanea" rather than the pure points product Marriott now pushes.



I agree.  Marriott is much more about getting someone in the door at the $25,000-$35,000 threshold with a MF in the $600 range with the idea of borrowing and banking to take the dream Hawaii vacation some years and taking a 5 day beach vacation or a 10 day Orlando trip.  They aren't trying to sell to the $75,000+ for a full week ocean front annually.  I guess Starwood has this too with the Sheraton flex so that when they say no to Nanea then can pick it up with the Flex.


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## serendip7 (Sep 1, 2015)

taterhed said:


> Noted:  I had visions of Bella/Key West in my head.
> 
> Don't forget:  somebody just gave away a WKV for free this month in bargains.  It was generous, but it was there.  So were the MF's.



Did something change with Bella/Key?  They were listed as mandatory in the FAQs but the broker I was working with just said the Bella seller I was targeting doesn't have star options associated with the unit.  I'm all confused.


Robert


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## tschwa2 (Sep 1, 2015)

Nothing changed.  The owner doesn't know what he has-  he has Bella and SO's or he has another section and does not have SO's.


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## taterhed (Sep 1, 2015)

serendip7 said:


> Did something change with Bella/Key?  They were listed as mandatory in the FAQs but the broker I was working with just said the Bella seller I was targeting doesn't have star options associated with the unit.  I'm all confused.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




My point was that Bella and Key and not usually brokered anymore, they have too little value.  They have been drifting into the bargain page.   Along with a less than desirable WKV. sic.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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