# Disney Question



## jjhiscutt1979 (Jun 7, 2013)

What should I read into the fact that any Disney resales are A.  Not as plentiful as the other timeshare/vacation package companies and B.  Are significantly higher in costs?  Should I take this as a sign that people in general are very happy with their Disney purchase?  That Disney offers a higher quality product?  Any thoughts?


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## kanerf (Jun 7, 2013)

Disney Vacation Club tends to keep it's value, unlike most timeshares.  There is usually a much lower difference between retail and resale cost per point, say 20-30% vs most other timeshares where the difference can be 80-90%.


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## MichaelColey (Jun 7, 2013)

It's definitely a sign that there is intrinsic value in DVC timeshares.  DVC is probably the best at retaining value.  Marriott is probably the only other that even comes close, from what I've seen.

kanerf's "80-90%" number is a bit generous.  I would guess that MOST timeshares lose 90-100% of their value.


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## jjhiscutt1979 (Jun 7, 2013)

So I guess a follow up question would be is it worth buying "brand new" from Disney?  Are there any perks of doing so?  Or is it still better to buy resale with Disney as well?  Thanks!


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## stanleyu (Jun 7, 2013)

Of course you do know the three main things in real estate are location, location, location, right? Disney resorts are very nice, to be sure, but the main reason they are so much in demand is that they are right there on Disney property. The jury is still out on Aulani, but Vero Beach and Hilton Head DVCs aren't nearly as much in demand and only do better than non-DVCs is because you have a big advantage in trading into WDW.


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## MichaelColey (Jun 7, 2013)

jjhiscutt1979 said:


> So I guess a follow up question would be is it worth buying "brand new" from Disney?  Are there any perks of doing so?  Or is it still better to buy resale with Disney as well?  Thanks!


No.  You lose a few perks (the ability to use points for cruises and a few other things, none of which are a good use of points anyway), but other than that there is no difference between developer DVC and resale DVC points.

Which resort's points to buy is probably the main consideration, if you want the ability to book more than 7 months out (pretty much assuring the ability to get the units you want, the days you want them).  And if you want that priority at a newer resort (where it hasn't been around long enough for people to buy, have buyer's remorse, and want to sell), developer points is the only option.

But even then, availability is VERY good 7 months out almost everywhere, if you're flexible on view and unit size.  For the price and MF difference, resale points at an older resort are a far better value.

So there's very little reason to buy developer points, even at DVC.


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## chriskre (Jun 8, 2013)

When I purchased my DVC points it was actually almost the same price buying from Disney direct with the incentives that they were offering at the time along the free closing costs.  This was back in 2004.

Now the prices have gone up so high that there is a big price difference between direct and resale.  As much as double the price now to buy direct. 

I've toyed with the idea of buying a small add on at Poly or GF just cause it's easier to add on once you are in the club, but I doubt I would buy a large package direct again.  

The benefits you lose with a resale are not a make it or break it deal.
Disney is one of the easiest timeshares to use.  It's also very easy to rent your points or do a points transfer to other members.  
Luckily Disney has not put any onerous restrictions on their owners and have made it easy to get value out of your ownership when you can't use it yourself, unlike other timeshare systems.  :annoyed:


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## vacationhopeful (Jun 8, 2013)

Last month, I met up with my 55 yo sister at DVC Wilderness Villas. We are doing things she had NOT done and believe me, Disney was NOT very high on her list (staying onsite for first time and first Disney trip in 20 years).

Her pre-trip take was she HAD to rent a car; buy a park ticket for a couple of days; did not want a pool over-runned by kids; wanted a nice workout room.

Her post-trip evaluation was: Disney transportation was GREAT, she had an AP, pools at Disney were very nice, best workout room among the massive number of hotels she has ever stayed at. Best question was: How much does it cost to buy DVC - on her 3rd day of being there.


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## capjak (Jun 8, 2013)

While DVC does hold its value for now, there is an end date on use.  The year 2042 for older resorts.  I would expect as the years left get closer the older resorts value will decrease to eventually $0.  So if buying you should be aware of the the expiration dates for different resorts.  

Having said that of my timeshares DVC is the most flexible and easiest to use (has on line booking now) and easiest to rent out to others and easiest to sale.  Currently it is a salers market, the units go on websites and if loaded with points sale within 24-48 hours (the last one I was interested in sold within 3 hours of being emailed to me).


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## elaine (Jun 8, 2013)

the only downside of DVC is the cost, IMHO. It is a very fair system--11 month home resort and 7 month free-for-all booking. However, the upfront cost and the amount of points it takes to stay in large units, and esp. prime season, is very steep. I could easily stay at a 2BR at HGVC, OLCC, Bonnet Creek, or a Marriott via II or RCI trade at less than half the cost----but, I agree with vactionhopeful's sister---once I stayed @ SSR for a few nights with my kids, I came right home and bought a resale contract--the buses (I love no car), the service, the kids clubs, etc. was just perfect for me. I truly "drank the Koolaid" while staying. We have been DVC member for 5 years and love it. We also stayed a few nights at DVC's HHI property--again the Koolaid was flowing and we also bought there---we stay in a studio and put other family in our non-DVC 3BR @ HHI--LOL! 
There are more restrictions on resales than in the past--no DVC member cruise, no trading for certain nonDVC properties (But still RCI), etc. I would definitely buy resale with a view to only staying at DVC and also at a place where I was OK the stay at if resales ever were restricted to home resort only (I thnk they would grandfather in existing owner--but I would still make sure I was OK to be locked into my home resort). The deals on resales, esp. SSR are VERY good. If I needed a lot of points, I would buy resale. Elaine


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## MichaelColey (Jun 8, 2013)

vacationhopeful said:


> Last month, I met up with my 55 yo sister at DVC Wilderness Villas. We are doing things she had NOT done and believe me, Disney was NOT very high on her list (staying onsite for first time and first Disney trip in 20 years).
> 
> Her pre-trip take was she HAD to rent a car; buy a park ticket for a couple of days; did not want a pool over-runned by kids; wanted a nice workout room.
> 
> Her post-trip evaluation was: Disney transportation was GREAT, she had an AP, pools at Disney were very nice, best workout room among the massive number of hotels she has ever stayed at. Best question was: How much does it cost to buy DVC - on her 3rd day of being there.


Different factors, but my "first" trip to Disney about 6 years ago was very similar.  I quickly became a fan, and had my next trip booked before I left.  My preconceived notions were wrong.

In my case, it was more affordable than I thought, more fun that I expected, and the food was far better than I expected.

The way we vacation at Disney has changed over the years, but I'm still a huge fan.


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## chriskre (Jun 8, 2013)

MichaelColey said:


> Different factors, but my "first" trip to Disney about 6 years ago was very similar.  I quickly became a fan, and had my next trip booked before I left.  My preconceived notions were wrong.
> 
> In my case, it was more affordable than I thought, more fun that I expected, and the food was far better than I expected.
> 
> The way we vacation at Disney has changed over the years, but I'm still a huge fan.



This happened to me too.  
I used to mostly stay in the moderates (usually Coronado or Port Orleans) or the value resorts with a FL discount onsite or off site in Kissimmee, that is until our car almost got stolen and there was a shooting in our motel.   :annoyed:

Because I'm such a huge Disneyphile I had to find a way to keep coming "home" safely and DVC just made so much sense to me due to the circumstances that I was sold before I even got in the sales door.  :hysterical:

I've been doing the math on an add-on at VGF and it's not as bad as you would think.  For example to go to GF at the time that I usually want to go in early December is about $600 a night for a standard view room.  You can add on as a DVC owner for $145 per point if you buy this month.  

It takes about 17 to 20 points a night to do a studio at GF at my preferred time.  The studios sleep 5 and I usually don't eat in the room on short trips anyway so could add on the dining plan quite reasonably and get plenty of value for the plan or just pay as I go.  

For a 4 day trip every few years a 30 point add on would cost me for about $4350 to purchase.  If I rent from Disney the same type of room it would be $600 X 4 = $2400.  MF's on 30 points is only going to be about $150 for now.
If I just do three stays in the next 10 years by banking, borrowing and renting any points from Disney that I am short, I figure I come ahead by a few thousand.  When I tire of GF I am very sure that I will get back very close to what I pay to add on today.
How's that for Mickey Math?  :rofl:


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## MichaelColey (Jun 8, 2013)

DVC makes a lot of sense for Studio units.  Who can argue with $150/night.  That's not much more than a Disney Value resort (I call them "Disney Motel 6's"), and far nicer.  You could stay off site very nicely in a hotel for $100 or less, but the on-site convenience is worth the difference.

It's not such a clear picture with 2BR units.  Through DVC points, they work out to be about $600/night.  You can stay off site in a very nice timeshare for a week for that.  Or you can exchange in through RCI, much more affordably.  But I don't think I could ever bring myself to spend $600/night.  The most I've ever spent was $475/night for an all-inclusive getaway (including butler service, water sports, food, and some excursions) with my wife.  That was a great one-time treat, but we're both much too frugal to do that with any regularity.


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## Lisa P (Jun 8, 2013)

chriskre said:


> I've been doing the math on an add-on at VGF... If I rent from Disney the same type of room it would be $600 X 4 = $2400... How's that for Mickey Math?  :rofl:


    That's the big "IF"... would you rent from Disney for these vacation stays?  Comparing DVC with the cash rental cost only makes sense if you would otherwise pay the cash rental cost.    If not, it's fuzzy sales-speak.    But then... Chris... you knew that!  :rofl:


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## chriskre (Jun 8, 2013)

Lisa P said:


> That's the big "IF"... would you rent from Disney for these vacation stays?  Comparing DVC with the cash rental cost only makes sense if you would otherwise pay the cash rental cost.    If not, it's fuzzy sales-speak.    But then... Chris... you knew that!  :rofl:



Well not at $600 rates but I have paid $300 to stay at the Contemporary & Poly in the past.  Now it's out of my reach except for conferences.  





MichaelColey said:


> DVC makes a lot of sense for Studio units.  Who can argue with $150/night.  That's not much more than a Disney Value resort (I call them "Disney Motel 6's"), and far nicer.  You could stay off site very nicely in a hotel for $100 or less, but the on-site convenience is worth the difference.
> 
> It's not such a clear picture with 2BR units.  Through DVC points, they work out to be about $600/night.  You can stay off site in a very nice timeshare for a week for that.  Or you can exchange in through RCI, much more affordably.  But I don't think I could ever bring myself to spend $600/night.  The most I've ever spent was $475/night for an all-inclusive getaway (including butler service, water sports, food, and some excursions) with my wife.  That was a great one-time treat, but we're both much too frugal to do that with any regularity.



Well studios definitely make alot of sense with DVC but yeah you are right when you need larger units it gets real expensive to own DVC points.
Hopefully we will be trading into GF with our CMV soon enough.  
I'm sure you will be the first to get a unit.


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## lizap (Jun 19, 2013)

Some of the Westin mandatory properties, as well as some of the Hyatt properties, are also pretty good at maintaining resale value (albeit not as good as Disney)...  I agree that as the lease approaches expiration, resale values will decline.




MichaelColey said:


> It's definitely a sign that there is intrinsic value in DVC timeshares.  DVC is probably the best at retaining value.  Marriott is probably the only other that even comes close, from what I've seen.
> 
> kanerf's "80-90%" number is a bit generous.  I would guess that MOST timeshares lose 90-100% of their value.


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## chunkygal (Jun 19, 2013)

Micheal gave a great synopsis of pros and cons.

There is a pixie dust factor that defies quantification.

We bought 515 points and were like, how will we ever use them. Now we are  like we want more!


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## lizap (Jun 19, 2013)

From a purely financial perspective, I am trying to justify a DVC purchase.  We would primarily use the points at Disney.  For a reasonable amount of points (160-200), we would only be able to stay at Disney once every 2 years.  This would cost well over $10,000 for a resale?  Probably close to $15k.  We could stay at very nice properties a lot for this amount of $, as opposed to purchasing DVC.   I'm having a hard time deciding-yes DVC resale properties appear to maintain value relatively well, but the upfront cost s significant (relative to my other TS purchases).


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## MichaelColey (Jun 19, 2013)

lizap said:


> From a purely financial perspective, I am trying to justify a DVC purchase.  We would primarily use the points at Disney.  For a reasonable amount of points (160-200), we would only be able to stay at Disney once every 2 years.  This would cost well over $10,0000 for a resale?  Probably close to $15k.  We could stay at very nice properties a lot for this amount of $, as opposed to purchasing DVC.   I'm having a hard time deciding-yes DVC resale properties appear to maintain value relatively well, but the upfront cost s significant (relative to my other TS purchases).


For 160-200 points a year and a stay every other year, it sounds like you're probably looking for a week in a 2BR.  I think you could probably hit your $10k goal if you wait for the right opportunity.  MFs would be about $1000/year.  So you're looking at $10k upfront and $2k per week on site in a 2BR (since you would be using two years of points per stay).  Personally, I find that very hard to financially justify.

Alternatively, you could buy a good trader *for almost nothing upfront*, with MFs in the $500-600 range, and exchange into Orlando (including DVC for as long as they're associated with the exchange company/companies your property is) *every year* (and maybe more than once a year) for less (including exchange company dues and exchange fees) than it costs to stay through DVC every other year.


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## lizap (Jun 19, 2013)

Thanks.  Very well said.  This supports my thinking on this. Would like to hear from others too who own DVC.




MichaelColey said:


> For 160-200 points a year and a stay every other year, it sounds like you're probably looking for a week in a 2BR.  I think you could probably hit your $10k goal if you wait for the right opportunity.  MFs would be about $1000/year.  So you're looking at $10k upfront and $2k per week on site in a 2BR (since you would be using two years of points per stay).  Personally, I find that very hard to financially justify.
> 
> Alternatively, you could buy a good trader *for almost nothing upfront*, with MFs in the $500-600 range, and exchange into Orlando (including DVC for as long as they're associated with the exchange company/companies your property is) *every year* (and maybe more than once a year) for less (including exchange company dues and exchange fees) than it costs to stay through DVC every other year.


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## ptlohmysoul (Jun 19, 2013)

lizap said:


> Thanks.  Very well said.  This supports my thinking on this. Would like to hear from others too who own DVC.



It's definitely cheaper to exchange in right now.  But, what is flexibility worth to you?  Do you want to get exact dates?  Do you want something other than 1 week?  Do you want a specific dvc other than SSR or OKW (which are relatively easy to get 2 bedroom)?  

Or, you can always rent from a dvc owner and get exactly what you want, too, paying more than an exchange, but no commitment to ongoing costs.  

At the current resale listed prices for BLT, it is currently cheaper to rent than buy.  Long term, who knows?  I keep looking at prices and try to justify buying in, but really can't for our situation yet.  We've decided to visit again at a different dvc before deciding to buy (or not).

BTW, we rented 1st week in Feb., staying in a 2-br at AKV - Kidani - Savannah view, for $9/point with only 2 weeks notice, which still costs more than trading in through BlueGreen points in RCI (which I didn't know we had the option to do before the trip, but certainly couldn't do at last minute).


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## MichaelColey (Jun 19, 2013)

FWIW, we have received a total of SIXTEEN exchanges (15 through RCI Weeks, 1 through RCI Points) into 2BR (or larger) DVC properties in the past three years.  One of those was a 2BR VGC unit.  We've stayed at all 7 Orlando properties.  We've had many peak weeks (Easter, Spring Break, Summer, etc.).  All of those exchanges cost us significantly less than DVC MFs (even ignoring the upfront costs) would have been.  I figure 16 weeks at DVC at 300-400 points per week is 4800-6400 points or $24-32k in MFs.  We haven't spent anywhere near that TOTAL for ALL of our timeshare expenses, to date.  And Disney accounts for probably only about 1/3 of our exchanges.


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## elaine (Jun 19, 2013)

I own 2 small contracts and have traded via RCI 3X. I like the balance. We love staying @ AKV and use our DVC points for short stays. But, you can't beat RCI trades--even given the limitations. I had 1 RCI trade that was perfect--exact date and exact size unit we wanted. 2nd trade was great--but limitations--I had to take a Friday check-in and could only get a 1 BR at either SSR or OKW--but it was for spring break the week prior to Easter--my cost (portion of purchase price+annual fee) for my trade week was about $1K--not as great as others on TUG, but annual fees alone at DVC would have been $1500, plus capital costs of buying that large a contract. Renting 300 DVC points @$12 would have been $3600 for the week. We needed to travel SAt-Sat, so we ditched Friday night and moved to another place for the next Friday. IMHO, it was still worth it. On our 3rd trade, we had to take a Sun-Sun and could only get OKW--but we made it work and it was an excellent trip. Next summer, I need to go a specific week, so I am open to a 1BR, but prefer a 2BR, and will take fri/sat/sun check-in at any resort, even if that means ditching a day. If we don't get onsite, we will trade into a nearby TS and stay a couple days with DVC points onsite. With DVC points, you can tailor what you want exactly--but it costs you more. I am too cheap. Elaine


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## chriskre (Jun 19, 2013)

lizap said:


> Thanks.  Very well said.  This supports my thinking on this. Would like to hear from others too who own DVC.



I like doing split stays.  I will stay Monday-Friday onsite and then move off site for the weekend to Bonnet Creek.  
I live in FL so I have a weekday yearly pass so being onsite is convenient.  
You get free parking when you use your points so even the day of check out on Friday is a free parking day.  
Then it's off to Bonnet Creek for the lazy river for a few days using my Wyndham points or renting points.  
I love having the flexibility in both systems.   



elaine said:


> I own 2 small contracts and have traded via RCI 3X. I like the balance. We love staying @ AKV and use our DVC points for short stays. But, you can't beat RCI trades--even given the limitations.
> 
> With DVC points, you can tailor what you want exactly--but it costs you more. I am too cheap. Elaine



Oh but it's so nice to score something you'd never get thru RCI like a treehouse of beach cottage.  
To me I totally understand the trading in and plan to do it as often as I can, but I also love booking a last minute trip on a whim, knowing that I 
may get lucky and score something great like I have in the pas, like a 2 bedroom P-weekend at BCV.  



ptlohmysoul said:


> It's definitely cheaper to exchange in right now.  But, what is flexibility worth to you?  Do you want to get exact dates?  Do you want something other than 1 week?  Do you want a specific dvc other than SSR or OKW (which are relatively easy to get 2 bedroom)?   (or not).
> 
> BTW, we rented 1st week in Feb., staying in a 2-br at AKV - Kidani - Savannah view, for $9/point with only 2 weeks notice, which still costs more than trading in through BlueGreen points in RCI (which I didn't know we had the option to do before the trip, but certainly couldn't do at last minute).



These last minute deals happen and they are great.  I consider them gifts from above, but for most that have to fly in and preplan it's too risky. 
Flexibility comes with a cost.  If you are fanatical about the mouse you may be more willing to pay the price.  
If you are undecided, don't go to the preview center to see the units.  
They'll sprinkle pixie dust in your eyes and you'll forget all about RCI logic.  :rofl:


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## ptlohmysoul (Jun 19, 2013)

chriskre said:


> These last minute deals happen and they are great.  I consider them gifts from above, but for most that have to fly in and preplan it's too risky.
> Flexibility comes with a cost.  If you are fanatical about the mouse you may be more willing to pay the price.
> If you are undecided, don't go to the preview center to see the units.
> They'll sprinkle pixie dust in your eyes and you'll forget all about RCI logic.  :rofl:



It was definitely a gift from above .  I'm thinking they sprinkled pixie dust while I was there, because I don't understand why I am obsessed with buying dvc.  Thankfully, my dh has put limitations that don't line up with the current market for dvc, but I'm keeping my eyes open :deadhorse:


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## alwysonvac (Jun 19, 2013)

jjhiscutt1979 said:


> What should I read into the fact that any Disney resales are A.  Not as plentiful as the other timeshare/vacation package companies and B.  Are significantly higher in costs?  Should I take this as a sign that people in general are very happy with their Disney purchase?  That Disney offers a higher quality product?  Any thoughts?



I think folks are generally happy with their Disney purchase but not as plentiful? 
Try this resale site - http://www.dvc-resales.com/dvclisting.cfm.  They claim that they receive about 130 to 150 new DVC listings every month 

Some other DVC resale sites
http://www.fidelityresales.com/dvc-resales.php
http://www.resalesdvc.com/BUY_DVC_Timeshare/page_1924721.html


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