# Gout?



## ricoba (Jul 27, 2012)

So, every now and again I get a sore big toe (well actually the joint at the base of the toe).  It is not unbearable, but very uncomfortable and it limits me from getting about easily.

I haven't been to see a Dr., but I am assuming (and yes, I know that can be a problem) it is gout also called gouty arthritis.  I have done the online research and I match the symptoms of gout.  Thankfully, I don't have the severe burning and pain that some people experience, it's just a steady, constant pain.  This is my second day in this cycle and it is much less painful today than yesterday.

Does anyone have any recommendations on how to manage this or how to avoid flareups?  I think this one happened due to two days of drinking beer with a meal (first day 3, second day 2, each over a period of a couple of hours or so).  Other than avoid beer and certain other foods that can cause flareups any other advice?

Last night, I was able to get some cherries, since I read that they are a good way to limit the uric acid that is causing the problem. 

Also, what if any long term problems can occur due to gout? 

Any other thoughts, ideas, suggestions?


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## VivianLynne (Jul 27, 2012)

One of my best friends has had gout for several years.

*CHANGE YOUR DIET - It only gets worst, if you don't.*

No shellfish or shrimp. Limit (that means eliminate) your carbs - esp refined carbs. No fatty foods.

Basicly, I used to eat breakfasts with him at diners - forget that. We had to stop that, as there was almost nothing he could eat.

PS He would eat shrimp (one of his most favorite foods) and limp in pain for weeks afterwards.


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## theo (Jul 27, 2012)

*The non-doctor is in, and he says...*



ricoba said:


> Any other thoughts, ideas, suggestions?



*Jack Daniels*. Reliably reduces the pain of gout, mothers-in-law and numerous other ailments and afflictions.

More seriously, I hope you feel better.


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## ricoba (Jul 27, 2012)

VivianLynne said:


> *CHANGE YOUR DIET - It only gets worst, if you don't.*



_Yes, I know that this is the good and correct answer_ 



theo said:


> *Jack Daniels*. Reliably reduces the pain of gout, mothers-in-law and numerous other ailments and afflictions. .



_BUT....this answer is MUCH BETTER!!!!_  :hysterical:  

BTW, they do say hard liquor does not bring on gout like beer does, so maybe it's time to look more seriously at the cocktail menu rather than the beer list.


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## Beaglemom3 (Jul 27, 2012)

I did a scholarly paper on Gout in grad (NP) school. Can send the PPT to you if you'll PM me with your email.

  Time to see your PCP or NP, oui ?

  I'd give you advice here, but not knowing your past medical history, it wouldn't be right.  There are some good guidelines on the Mayo Clinic or Johns Hopkins websites.


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## VivianLynne (Jul 27, 2012)

Beer is very high in carbs. Liquor is high in sugar, which becomes a carb in your body.

I am not in the medical field and have nothing more than the average lay person's understand of anything. But seeing your doctor might be a good idea while you can still walk most days. :ignore:


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## BocaBum99 (Jul 27, 2012)

I have a gout condition.  I didn't know I had it for almost a year after experiencing excruciating pain in my foot and heel.

then, I went to the doctor and got what is truly a miracle medicine.  It's called Colcrys.  It is expensive at about $5 per pill.  But, it solves the problem is 4 days or less.

Whenever I feel slight pain building up in my joints, I pop one of those pills and flare up is averted.


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## Beaglemom3 (Jul 27, 2012)

There are several anti-Gout medications on the market  including  Colcrys (colchicine - lots of dangerous s/e with this one) Allopurinol, Benemid and so on.

See your PCP for diagnosis and treatment (medication, diet and other lifestyle changes) options. You'll feel much better !


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## BevL (Jul 27, 2012)

Greg has suffered gout for years, it's part and parcel of his high uric acid levels associated with his impaired and now non-existent kidney function.

He takes allopurinol every day, which his neph has told him is a fairly benign drug, which keeps it controlled.  For flare-ups he would take colchicine but very sparingly pre-dialysis, it's not good for kidney patients.  Since he is now on a good dialysis regime, it's not as bad as it used to be.

As always, getting medical "advice" from laypeople isn't the greatest, but Greg's neph explained that it's much better to keep it controlled than simply treat a flare-up as the meds for flare-ups have way more possible side effects and complications.

He also eats two or three whole lemons a day and apparently there is something in lemon juice that helps break down uric acid.  Have to be careful with this one as it can really do a number on tooth enamel.

Hopefully your doctor will also include some tests for creatinine levels and GFR, just to check your kidney function, if your uric acid levels are up.  That is definitely something I would be asking about. 

Hope it gets better and doesn't get worse - the first time Greg had an acute flare up, he described it as hot needles being poked non-stop into the joint of his big toe.  Worst pain he'd ever experienced.


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## easyrider (Jul 27, 2012)

Real lemon juice and baking soda is a natural remedy.

"Lemon and Baking Soda Mixture

Mixing lemon juice and baking soda together creates a nearly perfect pH of 7, which can help reduce acidosis in the body, keeping it neutral or slightly alkaline. This mixture may stop a gout attack almost immediately by alkalizing the blood. It is important to mix the correct amount of baking soda and lemon juice to obtain these results. Pour 2 tbsp. lemon juice in a glass with 1/2 tsp. baking soda. More or less of either ingredient will throw the balance off and it will not work as intended. Allow the mix to foam and fizz until it is flat -- about 2 minutes. Then add 8 oz. water and drink immediately. The drink should have almost no flavor and is easy to swallow. Ordinarily baking soda can raise the blood pressure; however, in this combination it has been neutralized, making it less likely to affect the blood pressure. Regardless, if you have hypertension, do not use this mixture to treat gout unless you first consult a health practitioner."


I use the lemon juice recipe for kidney stones when ever I feel them trying to pass. Its a different recipe from above and works really good for disolving stones.

Good Luck
Bill


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## Mosca (Jul 27, 2012)

It could also be pseudo-gout: same symptoms, different chemical, just as painful. See your doctor.


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## natasha5687 (Jul 27, 2012)

Black Cherry Juice capsuls...you can get them at the local vitamin shop


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## nightnurse613 (Jul 27, 2012)

My husband takes allopurinol every day to keep the symptoms down-it's been a while but sometimes when he binges on shrimp (or other seafood) he is forced to take a colchicine.  Doesn't drink so I'm not sure on the wine/beer thing!!


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## cgeidl (Jul 27, 2012)

*Idocin*

Although in my case my uric acis was in the normal range I had gout in 1986 and eventually had indocin prescribed which worked quickly-three or four days. I have had a couple reoccurences but caught them at the beginning and two pills and the symptoms were gone. I was told red wine mushrooms cauliflower and broccoli were not good to eat.Never have taken preventive medicine and feel lucky no more gout in the last ten years.
Hope your cherries work!That would eb the easiest solution.


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## csxjohn (Jul 27, 2012)

Go to your doctor and talk to him/her about your problems.

My doctor prescribed indomethacine ER for my infrequent flare-ups.

I have also learned that I can sometimes drink a lot of beer with no trouble then once in a while I'll get an attack.  My doc told me that any alcohol will produce uric acid but beer is worse than alcohol.

I have read that the potassium in cherries is what helps but I don't know this for sure.

I resist taking any meds so when I'm feeling a joint pain I don't do anything at first but if it keeps getting worse for no apparent reason, I take a pill and another 8 hrs. later.  In two more hours the pain is gone.

Mine doesn't always attack my big toe.  My last to 2 attacks were in my right ankle area.  

My doctor also told me to drink plenty of water everyday to flush out the uric acid, and to exercise regularly.  Of course this is good advice even if you don't suffer from gout.


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## Patri (Jul 27, 2012)

easyrider said:


> Real lemon juice and baking soda is a natural remedy.
> 
> "Lemon and Baking Soda Mixture
> 
> ...



What is your recipe for the kidney stones? Do you still go to the ER or just sweat it out at home? I'd like the recipe for DH, who gets stones every couple years and always goes to the hospital.


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## Beaglemom3 (Jul 27, 2012)

Be careful about taking Bicarbonate of soda, HCO3-. without checking with your physician first.


 It is a _vey bad idea_ doing this without researching the dangers of* alkalosis *and then excessive sodium. What may be seemingly safe, for the moment, for one person, can be lethal to another. Blood ph has a very narrow range, 7.35 - 7.45 and when knocked out of balance, can have dire consequences.


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## easyrider (Jul 27, 2012)

Patri said:


> What is your recipe for the kidney stones? Do you still go to the ER or just sweat it out at home? I'd like the recipe for DH, who gets stones every couple years and always goes to the hospital.



The recipe is just real lemon juice and water. I was squeezing lemons but now just buy 100% real lemon juice in the 32 ounce bottle.

Step 1. Measure 8 ounces of lemon juice and 8 ounces of water. You can combine them or drink each by itself. I drink both seperatly. Then go brush your teeth to prevent hurting tooth emanal.

Step 2. Measure 2 ounces of lemon juice and 8 ounces of water. Drink this combination every hour for at least 8 hours. Brush teeth after every drink.

I will try to do this all day but have started late and went to bed to wake up and start the 2 ounces + 8 ounces the next day. If you have a screen to catch the stone, the stone will be mushy but usually you will never see it as it will disolve.

When I feel presure on my right lower side about 5 - 8 inches above my waist I know I need to start this remedy. We keep lemon juice in the pantry for just in case. 

You can find this remedy at www.curezone.com and youtube. It has all ways worked for me and I did tell my Doctor about it and received his ok.

Good Luck
Bill


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## easyrider (Jul 27, 2012)

Beaglemom3 said:


> Be careful about taking Bicarbonate of soda, HCO3-. without checking with your physician first.
> 
> 
> It is a _vey bad idea_ doing this without researching the dangers of* alkalosis *and then excessive sodium. What may be seemingly safe, for the moment, for one person, can be lethal to another. Blood ph has a very narrow range, 7.35 - 7.45 and when knocked out of balance, can have dire consequences.



Many health problems can be cured using baking soda, vinagar, lemon juice, hydogen peroxide and other low cost natural ingredients. 

1/2 teaspoon of baking soda with lemon juice will not hurt anyone that isn't really, really, really, ph off balanced. Your body already makes its own carbonates and bicarbonates to neutralise the stomach acid, and has buffers to maintain your body pH in the correct range. You can't make significant changes to your internal body chemistry by drinking baking soda or lemon juice. If you could, there would be a lot of dead people. 

Also, if baking soda is dangerous wouldn't it be regulated and labled as dangerous on the box ?

So I guess I disagree with the over the top warning of baking soda but in reality there is a chance of increased hypertension in some people. 

Ok Then
Bill


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## csaohio (Jul 28, 2012)

*Gout can be controlled and eliminated!*

My DH was diagnosed with gout about 15 yrs ago.  Gout is a very old disease which originally affected the aristocracy as they were the only ones able to afford the much sought after organ meats and other very high protein delicacies from the animal.  

The doctor put him on Allopurinol for several years but when you read the flyer which comes with Allopurinol it states that it is to be used for no more then 3 months in conjunction with dietary changes.  

My DH started having horrible heartburn and was up sick EVERY night for years.  I stupidly thought this was due to late night snacking.  

One day after discovering blood in his urine he went back to a different doctor (he had been taking Allopurinol for 8+ yrs) and we discovered that his condition had not been gout it was actually proteinuria which is a condition of chronic kidney disease.  Not having health insurance or any patience with the medical establishment I started researching and IMMEDIATELY took him off of the Allopurinol as it is an enzyme blocker.

We found that the gout and the heartburn was caused by his body's inability to properly break down protein.  He started taking high doses of natural food enzymes as he was limiting meat protein in his diet and he started to sleep through the night.

Often gout is the diagnosis when the underlying issue is food intolerances which can cause kidney disease to display as a symptom.

The doctors wanted to treat my DH with:  Steroids, stage II chemo, dialysis and a kidney transplant.  We advised them we had no insurance and would be using herbs and diet.

We have been controlling his kidney disease for 7+ years and he has not had a gout flare up in close to 8 years and even with kidney disease he is healthier then he has ever been.

Good luck and remember it can easily be eliminated without pharmaceutical medication.


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## Don (Jul 28, 2012)

Two years ago,I suffered my first gout attack in over 15 years.  We were in DEL with friends and on our way to Wyndham Atlantic City.  We called our GP and she called in an Rx to a pharmacy up there for  Methylprednisolone.  Within 3 days I was walking pain free.
When we got back, she put me on Uloric for prevention.  My transplant nephrologist concurred saying that it was one of the gentlest for the kidneys.  I haven't had an attack since. (BTW, in two days, 7/30, I celebrate the 11th "rebirthday" of my transplant.)
This site gives you a good list of foods to avoid and options you can try.
http://arthritis.about.com/cs/gout/a/foodstoavoid.htm


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## Patri (Jul 28, 2012)

easyrider said:


> The recipe is just real lemon juice and water. I was squeezing lemons but now just buy 100% real lemon juice in the 32 ounce bottle.
> Good Luck
> Bill



Thank you so much! Will post on the fridge.


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## MelBay (Jul 28, 2012)

When mine gets really bad, I take colchicine, but haven't had to do that for several years.

This is what my doc told me:

1.  Lose 15 lbs.  It's amazing what 15 can do to your system.  I'm trying.

2.  I take Black Cherry capsules every day.  Got them from Puritan's Pride.

3.  I bought Tart Cherry concentrate at the health food store (you can get it on Amazon too).  I mix it with tonic water and some Stevia sweetener drops, and have a little cocktail every evening.

4.  Lay off the beef.  That's easy for me.  I may eat beef once a week, at the most.  

Good luck.  I came down with it when we were on a timeshare exchange to Sanibel Island.  I was so bad that I had to be pushed around in a wheelchair in the airport on the trip home.  It's nasty, painful stuff.

"Rich man's disease", my doctor says...


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## BevL (Jul 28, 2012)

Don said:


> Two years ago,I suffered my first gout attack in over 15 years.  We were in DEL with friends and on our way to Wyndham Atlantic City.  We called our GP and she called in an Rx to a pharmacy up there for  Methylprednisolone.  Within 3 days I was walking pain free.
> When we got back, she put me on Uloric for prevention.  My transplant nephrologist concurred saying that it was one of the gentlest for the kidneys.  I haven't had an attack since. (BTW, in two days, 7/30, I celebrate the 11th "rebirthday" of my transplant.)
> This site gives you a good list of foods to avoid and options you can try.
> http://arthritis.about.com/cs/gout/a/foodstoavoid.htm



Congrats on your "rebirthday".

Perhaps we'll talk to Greg's neph and the pharmacist at his next clinic about the medication you're on.

Thanks


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## rosebud5 (Jul 29, 2012)

I have had gout for 15 years and nowhave it pretty much under control. I have been taking Allopurinol for the entire time. Was taking Colchicine until the FDA pulled it. Its replacement is Colcrys or something like that. Sorry I wont pay $50 for a name drug, so I only take allopurinol. The cause of Gout is elevated levels of uric acid in the blood. The Kings Disease as it has been referred to. There is no one cause but it is believed that alcohol consumption contributes big time. Alcohol dries you out. If you drink a beer or drink wine, make sure you hydrate yourself with water afterwards. I have had gout attacks on my elbow, knee, ankle and toes. usually very, very painful. My last attack (ankle) occured about 2 years ago and was so bad I couldn't walk or sleep. Since then I have lost 25 lbs, cut back of alcohol and eat better. I think the combination of all those things have helped.


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## Beaglemom3 (Jul 29, 2012)

easyrider said:


> Many health problems can be cured using baking soda, vinagar, lemon juice, hydogen peroxide and other low cost natural ingredients.
> 
> 1/2 teaspoon of baking soda with lemon juice will not hurt anyone that isn't really, really, really, ph off balanced. Your body already makes its own carbonates and bicarbonates to neutralise the stomach acid, and has buffers to maintain your body pH in the correct range. You can't make significant changes to your internal body chemistry by drinking baking soda or lemon juice. If you could, there would be a lot of dead people.
> 
> ...



All,

Exercise caution when giving or taking medical advice from well meaning, enthusiastic, non-medical people. Always discuss with your own PCP re: interactions with current medications and/or existing medical conditions when/where taking bicarb is contraindicated.

A high alkalotic condition, greater than 7.45, decreases both sodium and potassium. To focus on sodium is missing the point. Alkalosis from baking soda (sodium bicarbonate) is caused by the bicarbonate, not the sodium. To further stress my point: Alkalosis (mod or severe) causes binding (unavailability) of calcium. Calcium is crucial for the functioning of muscles (think beating hearts, functioning diaphragm and rib muscles for breathing). So we are talking about muscle twitching, shallow breathing or cessation of breathing, confusion, seizures. As before,  please do your research before alkalinizing your food or water with baking soda( and I don't mean youtube or curezone). 

I have seen admissions to the E/R from these so-called alkalinizing diets requiring intubation and ventilation for respiratory support until the underlying cause was corrected.

There is FDA legislation pending to put stronger warning message on baking soda boxes (OTC)  http://dailymed.nlm.nih.gov/dailymed/drugInfo.cfm?id=61491

Here are some good sites:


http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmedhealth/PMH0000538/ http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19469119

http://askdrgottmd.com/baking-soda-treats-gout/
http://sodiumbicarbonate.imva.info/index.php/main-and-side-effects/warnings-and-contraindications/

http://www.medicinenet.com/sodium_bicarbonate-oral/article.htm

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/drug-information/DR601241/DSECTION=before-using

http://www.merckmanuals.com/home/ho...acid-base_balance/alkalosis.html?qt=&sc=&alt=

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19469119

Beags. RN/MSN/ANP-C/JD


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## easyrider (Jul 29, 2012)

Beaglemom3 is right about talking to your doctor. Before I did the lemon juice dealio I was a bit concerned that the juice could cook my insides. I thought that since lemon juice can cook fish that it might be a bit hard on me. My doctor said it was fine and said he heard of this remedy.

Bill


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## Beaglemom3 (Jul 30, 2012)

easyrider said:


> Beaglemom3 is right about talking to your doctor. Before I did the lemon juice dealio I was a bit concerned that the juice could cook my insides. I thought that since lemon juice can cook fish that it might be a bit hard on me. My doctor said it was fine and said he heard of this remedy.
> 
> Bill



Thanks, Bill,
  It's the bicarb that I am concerned about. Personally, I like dilute lemon juice and/or homemade lemonade (very little sugar) for my own personal use or while I'm doing a day fast (approved by my PCP).

 If, for any reason, I had to take soduim bicarb , I don't think that I could force it down. When I was a kid, I spent the weekend with my Irish (from the "old country") Grandmother. I had forgotten to pack  my "Ipana" (dating myself here - ha !), so I had to brush with baking soda, lovingly supplied by my Grammy.
I still gag when I think back to it ! Insert gag icon right here - ha !


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## Patri (Jul 30, 2012)

easyrider said:


> Beaglemom3 is right about talking to your doctor. Before I did the lemon juice dealio I was a bit concerned that the juice could cook my insides. I thought that since lemon juice can cook fish that it might be a bit hard on me. My doctor said it was fine and said he heard of this remedy.
> 
> Bill



Bill, you are not going to believe this. I think it was a God thing. I got your kidney stone recipe just days ago. Told my DH and put it on the fridge. Sat. night he didn't feel great and by morning thought he had the start of stones. Same symptoms as usual. He did the lemon juice thing. Spent the day on the couch. Started feeling better after that first dose. (The lighter mixtures tasted worse, he said). He's going to work today. Any other time, we would have spent the afternoon in the ER. And I have better things to do. Thank you so much!


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## Don (Jul 30, 2012)

It got the name Kings (or rich man's) Disease several hundred years ago because only the rich could afford the food and beverages that cause it.  The poor were actually eating healthier (gout wise) than the rich.  

When the uric acid levels reach a certain point, it crystallizes in the joints.
For those of you who have never known how painful a gout attack can be, imagine this: 
you can take your foot off at the ankle,
pour course sand on the ankle joint,
put your foot back on and try walking.


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## easyrider (Jul 30, 2012)

@ Patri, Your Welcome  Im glad it helped.

Bill


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## Rob&Carol Q (Aug 8, 2012)

No that you need any more advice, but...

I went through a period of gout flares about 8 years ago...one after another, seperated by about two months of calm.  My blood levels showed a clear spike in Uric Acid and my body just wasn't getting the job done.  Been on Allopurinol ever since.

Honestly, that was one of the better decisions I was led to...pain free is a wonderful thing.  Gout hurts...even just to look at it.

Personally, go on the med.  Takes a little adjustment but the payoff is outstanding.  BTW, the comment about losing a few pounds?  Probably the best advice most of us could receive.


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