# Study found Vegas to be most affordable vacation spot



## VegasBella (May 7, 2015)

http://m.reviewjournal.com/travel/tipsdeals/study-las-vegas-the-most-affordable-vacation-spot-the-us

They looked at 50 cities and compared airfare, hotel, food/drink, and ground transportation costs. Also on the list: Orlando, Denver...


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## Luanne (May 7, 2015)

That is until you start losing money at the casinos.


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## presley (May 7, 2015)

Luanne said:


> That is until you start losing money at the casinos.



That was my thought, too. Vegas can be expensive if you do shows, gamble, etc. Orlando gets expensive if you do any amusement parks. Not sure what people do who visit Denver, but I couldn't imagine going to Vegas or Orlando and not spending way more money than a beach vacation.


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## Luanne (May 7, 2015)

presley said:


> That was my thought, too. Vegas can be expensive if you do shows, gamble, etc. Orlando gets expensive if you do any amusement parks. Not sure what people do who visit Denver, but I couldn't imagine going to Vegas or Orlando and not spending way more money than a beach vacation.



This was in that article about Las Vegas.

"That said, the key to surviving this city on a budget is to keep your gambling in check."

It looks like all that was being measured was transportation, lodging and food.  I'm sure the "cheapness" of Las Vegas is in order to get people there hoping they'll drop the big bucks on shows and gambling. 

I noticed our neighbor Albuquerque made the list as well.


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## jeffox (May 7, 2015)

presley said:


> Not sure what people do who visit Denver.



My guess would be skiing, hiking, legal weed, all which could be just as expensive as gambling and amusement parks.


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## PassionForTravel (May 7, 2015)

If I was on the Las Vegas Visitors and Convention Bureau I'm not sure if I would want to be included in that list. Seriously Detroit, Grand Rapids, Kansas City.

Ian


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## SmithOp (May 7, 2015)

jeffox said:


> My guess would be skiing, hiking, legal weed, all which could be just as expensive as gambling and amusement parks.




Whisky!

http://www.stranahans.com/tours/


Sent from my iPad using the strange new version of Tapatalk


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## zinger1457 (May 8, 2015)

Luanne said:


> That is until you start losing money at the casinos.



Yep, a lot of folks have gone broke saving money in Vegas.


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## Passepartout (May 8, 2015)

If you can control your gambling, Las Vegas can be a very economical place to vacation. There are TONS of free or very low cost attractions. Beautiful gardens, Kid's museum, art galleries, mountain or desert hikes, Lake Mead. Inexpensive eats, free shows. The people watching is hard to beat. 

Sure, if you gamble more than you should, or want to take in the newest, headlining shows and eat in the very best restaurants, drink the top-shelf booze in quantity, ride helicopters all over the valley, Vegas knows how to treat a high roller, but that's all optional.

Jim


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## MichaelColey (May 8, 2015)

I go to an annual conference in both Vegas and NYC, and it's quite a contrast in costs.

I don't gamble. My vice is food.


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## VegasBella (May 8, 2015)

Passepartout said:


> If you can control your gambling, Las Vegas can be a very economical place to vacation. There are TONS of free or very low cost attractions. Beautiful gardens, Kid's museum, art galleries, mountain or desert hikes, Lake Mead. Inexpensive eats, free shows. The people watching is hard to beat.
> 
> Jim


Agreed.

Don't gamble, control your gambling, or  there's another option too... win.
Some people could travel to a place like Vegas and actually make money. There are pro gamblers, you know? And gamblers who play well enough they could go pro but just treat it like a hobby. (My husband happens to be a winning player. That's a big reason why we live here.)

Anyway... here's the follow up piece: The 10 Least Affordable Vacation Spots: http://www.reviewjournal.com/travel/tipsdeals/10-least-affordable-vacation-cities-the-us

Included in the list of least affordable: LA, NYC, Honolulu, Santa Barbara... Houston surprised me.


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## Passepartout (May 8, 2015)

VegasBella said:


> ..... or  there's another option too... win.
> *Some* people could travel to a place like Vegas and actually make money. *There are pro gamblers, you know? And gamblers who play well enough they could go pro but just treat it like a hobby.* (My husband happens to be a winning player. That's a big reason why we live here.)



The problem with this is that the lessons are darned expensive. Learning the esoterica and small details needed to consistently beat the house takes time- and MONEY. You don't learn it from books, the internet, or playing penny-ante in your buddy's basement. Well, maybe that last, if your game is poker. 

But the vast majority of the folks who frequent these forums, are simply buying entertainment. Go to Vegas, decide as you go out for the evening, that you're going to buy $XXX, or $XXXX worth of entertainment. And when it's gone, you go home. Everything's relative. Some people need to wager 10's of thousands to get the rush of adrenalin, and for some a roll of quarters will provide an evening's jollys.

Jim


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## VegasBella (May 9, 2015)

Passepartout said:


> The problem with this is that the lessons are darned expensive. Learning the esoterica and small details needed to consistently beat the house takes time- and MONEY. You don't learn it from books, the internet, or playing penny-ante in your buddy's basement. Well, maybe that last, if your game is poker.



Why do you say you cant learn strategy games from books or forums? its not a sport whet you need lots of physical practice. Pro poker players read read read. Advantage gamblers rely on listservs and forums. Ganted, the adverage person should just refrain from gambling, but those who Want to win should study.

Edit to add: tho only real way to "beat the house" consistently and profitably is to cheat. The pro gamblers don't try to "beat the house", they play games that aren't against the house (like poker) or they find niche pockets of advantage play (sports book betting lines that aren't up to date or simply miscalculated, slot machine promotions that pay out over 100%, etc)


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## Pat H (May 9, 2015)

Passepartout said:


> If you can control your gambling, Las Vegas can be a very economical place to vacation. There are TONS of free or very low cost attractions. Beautiful gardens, Kid's museum, art galleries, mountain or desert hikes, Lake Mead. Inexpensive eats, free shows. The people watching is hard to beat.
> 
> Sure, if you gamble more than you should, or want to take in the newest, headlining shows and eat in the very best restaurants, drink the top-shelf booze in quantity, ride helicopters all over the valley, Vegas knows how to treat a high roller, but that's all optional.
> 
> Jim



Inexpensive eats? Tell me where they are since I'm going in NOV and staying at the Flamingo. Won't have a car. When I was there last year, restaurant prices were out of sight.


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## Gaozhen (May 9, 2015)

Pat H said:


> Inexpensive eats? Tell me where they are since I'm going in NOV and staying at the Flamingo. Won't have a car. When I was there last year, restaurant prices were out of sight.



Not really inexpensive but the best food and awesome value: The M Resort buffet (far south end of the strip but worth a visit) and the Wynn buffet. Something like $40-50 pp but includes high-end items like crab legs as well as some alcohol. And everything else on the buffet is top notch. So eat the continental breakfast at your unit, or buy cereal eggs toast etc for your timeshare, then pig out at a lunch buffet. Delicious and satisfying and then you only need s cheap snack for dinner. :rofl:


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## Fern Modena (May 9, 2015)

Inexpensive eats? Mainly are available if you have a car and can eat where locals do.

Since you can't, the next best thing to do if you want to stay in a budget of sorts is to eat a largeish buffet or other meal at a late lunch. Then later eat at one of the better food courts for dinner. It is like a mall thing, but with better food. There are some interesting offerings at the one at Venetian, and the new one at Harrah's (where the coffee shop used to be) looks good. Also Caesar's just renovated theirs and you might check online for all of these to see what restaurants/quick serve places they all have.

Fern



Pat H said:


> Inexpensive eats? Tell me where they are since I'm going in NOV and staying at the Flamingo. Won't have a car. When I was there last year, restaurant prices were out of sight.


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## Fern Modena (May 9, 2015)

I don't drink, or eat crab, so I find TheM's buffet not at all worth it for the price. If you like beer or wine, and will drink more than one drink, maybe it is worth it. It was much better in the beginning than it is now, and definitely not worth the price to me. If I were going high end buffet, I'd go to Caesar's. If I wanted local, I'd generally go to Green Valley Ranch. I generally only go to South Point's buffet with friends who stay in the vicinity, it is good for the price. But I'd rather eat at the Oyster Bar or the Deli there, both of which are reasonable. 

Fern



Gaozhen said:


> Not really inexpensive but the best food and awesome value: The M Resort buffet (far south end of the strip but worth a visit) and the Wynn buffet. Something like $40-50 pp but includes high-end items like crab legs as well as some alcohol. And everything else on the buffet is top notch. So eat the continental breakfast at your unit, or buy cereal eggs toast etc for your timeshare, then pig out at a lunch buffet. Delicious and satisfying and then you only need s cheap snack for dinner. :rofl:


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## zinger1457 (May 9, 2015)

VegasBella said:


> Why do you say you cant learn strategy games from books or forums? its not a sport whet you need lots of physical practice. Pro poker players read read read. Advantage gamblers rely on listservs and forums. Ganted, the adverage person should just refrain from gambling, but those who Want to win should study.



Not really practical advice for the typical Vegas visitor that's there for a few days or a week.  For the successful professional gambler it's a full time job, they are very good with numbers and finances and they realize they are going to lose frequently.  It's all about finding that small advantage that brings you out ahead in the end.  I agree the average person should refrained from gambling but if they did Vegas would turn into a ghost town.


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## AwayWeGo (May 9, 2015)

*Affordable Is As Affordable Does.*

Click here for _Las Vegas Top Ten Values_*.*

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


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## VegasBella (May 10, 2015)

zinger1457 said:


> I agree the average person should refrained from gambling but if they did Vegas would turn into a ghost town.



Vegas is changing. While gaming is still at the center of our economy, that is shifting. We had such huge growth in population over the last 20 years that I think there's no chance Vegas would just turn into a ghost town if gaming tourism ceased. Take a look at the trend:





The left column is year. You can see that in 1984 nearly 59% of total revenue from the Las Vegas Strip was from gaming but that amount has steadily decreased to where in 2014 only about 37% of the Strip's revenue came from gaming. 

That's page 5 of this: http://gaming.unlv.edu/reports/NV_departments_historic.pdf
The executive summary of the report says:


> Executive Summary
> The five reporting areas in this study (with one notable exception): followed the same general pattern:
> *gaming win, as a percentage of total revenue, has declined over the past 25 years, chiefly because of the emergence of lodging, dining, and nightlife components of casino resorts as revenue centers.*
> 
> ...


This trend is what some in this thread have noticed when they say they don't consider dining out "inexpensive" in Vegas any more.


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## zinger1457 (May 10, 2015)

VegasBella said:


> You can see that in 1984 nearly 59% of total revenue from the Las Vegas Strip was from gaming but that amount has steadily decreased to where in 2014 only about 37% of the Strip's revenue came from gaming.



Everything still survives either directly or indirectly off of the casinos.  It's hard to imagine that if gaming went away there wouldn't be a domino effect on lodging, entertainment, dining, etc.


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## AwayWeGo (May 10, 2015)

*That Sounds About Right.*




zinger1457 said:


> Everything still survives either directly or indirectly off of the casinos.  It's hard to imagine that if gaming went away there wouldn't be a domino effect on lodging, entertainment, dining, etc.


By the same token, in Florida, try to imagine Orlando-Kissimmee without the big theme parks.  

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


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## tante (May 10, 2015)

presley said:


> That was my thought, too. Vegas can be expensive if you do shows, gamble, etc. Orlando gets expensive if you do any amusement parks. Not sure what people do who visit Denver, but I couldn't imagine going to Vegas or Orlando and not spending way more money than a beach vacation.



On a list that has Detroit, Jacksonville, Grand Rapids, Kansas City, Memphis and Albuquerque. You wonder what people do in Denver?


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## TJC (May 10, 2015)

tante said:


> You wonder what people do in Denver?



This morning...sledding!! lol





Rather be by a pool, so headed to Vegas Wednesday.  Thanks for the link Awaywego!  Definitely will try to sneak a couple of those in, between the obvious splurges


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## MichaelColey (May 10, 2015)

zinger1457 said:


> Everything still survives either directly or indirectly off of the casinos.  It's hard to imagine that if gaming went away there wouldn't be a domino effect on lodging, entertainment, dining, etc.


I think conferences also bring a very large number of people to Vegas.


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## Pat H (May 10, 2015)

$50 for a buffet no matter what they have is ridiculous. We're in a hotel room so no refrig or even a coffeemaker. I would have stayed at Grandview again but my friends wanted to be on the strip.


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## Fern Modena (May 10, 2015)

This is like saying "there is no there, there." They used to say that thirty years ago. Now, there is plenty of there, there. You seem not to realize that The Strip is not the only area of Las Vegas. There is a vibrant locals' scene, with food, beverage, shopping and entertainment. Unlike Vegas Bella, many of us who live here are not tied to The Strip or the casinos, and seldom visit either area.

Fern



zinger1457 said:


> Everything still survives either directly or indirectly off of the casinos.  It's hard to imagine that if gaming went away there wouldn't be a domino effect on lodging, entertainment, dining, etc.


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## zinger1457 (May 11, 2015)

MichaelColey said:


> I think conferences also bring a very large number of people to Vegas.



They do and I'm guessing most of those conferences select Vegas because of the casinos and all the hotel rooms, restaurants, entertainment and shopping that are built to support the casinos.


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## Fern Modena (May 11, 2015)

Sounds like you sort of have this backwards. There are tons of conventions and conferences in Las Vegas these days. In fact, the Riviera is being demolished and the space turned into an extension for the Las Vegas Convention Center. People like to go to Las Vegas for conventions these days mainly for the reasonable extravagance, with tons of shopping (outlet, boutique and high end, even if a lot of that is window shopping), a plethora of shows, and the opportunity to eat at celebrity chef restaurants. I know about the restaurants because (for example) Giada's became an immediate hit, even though the reviews were not stellar in the beginning. Many conventioneers bring spouses/family to town, and do not gamble at all.

The Las Vegas built a Furniture Mart a few years back. It is open to the trade for two Furniture Shows a year. They used to be held mainly in North Carolina (and some in San Francisco). It is a fact that much of the show has shifted to Las Vegas because we have enough hotel rooms near the furniture mart to satisfy everybody, and plenty of things to do after the convention each day, which was sorely lacking in North Carolina.

Fern



zinger1457 said:


> They do and I'm guessing most of those conferences select Vegas because of the casinos and all the hotel rooms, restaurants, entertainment and shopping that are built to support the casinos.


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## Gaozhen (May 11, 2015)

Pat H said:


> $50 for a buffet no matter what they have is ridiculous. We're in a hotel room so no refrig or even a coffeemaker. I would have stayed at Grandview again but my friends wanted to be on the strip.



When you consider a decent steak at $35 or crab plate at $40, plus appetizer / drinks / dessert, you can easily spend way more than $50/pp on a regular dinner. So a $50 high-end buffet with more options and multiple alcoholic drinks seems worthwhile for me.  Especially when hungry!


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## John Cummings (May 11, 2015)

Gaozhen said:


> When you consider a decent steak at $35 or crab plate at $40, plus appetizer / drinks / dessert, you can easily spend way more than $50/pp on a regular dinner. So a $50 high-end buffet with more options and multiple alcoholic drinks seems worthwhile for me.  Especially when hungry!



We typically spend $150-200 at a good steakhouse and we don't drink adult beverages. So $50 at a high end buffet is not unreasonable. We wouldn't do it because we like to be served but I can see how it would appeal to some people.


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## AwayWeGo (May 11, 2015)

*Too Much Of A Good Thing.*




Pat H said:


> $50 for a buffet no matter what they have is ridiculous.


Once when The Chief Of Staff & I were on vacation in Las Vegas, I signed us up for the Orleans Casino Hotel All Day Buffet -- $25 or so (at the time) for unlimited buffet from 8AM till 9PM all in 1 single day.  

Sounded like a good idea at the time. 

But by suppertime, it was clear for both of us that such overconsumption had lost its appeal.  

On some future Las Vegas vacation, we may well decide to go for a buffet breakfast plus a buffet lunch & also a buffet supper -- but for sure not all on the same day (if at all). 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


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## VegasBella (May 13, 2015)

zinger1457 said:


> Everything still survives either directly or indirectly off of the casinos.  It's hard to imagine that if gaming went away there wouldn't be a domino effect on lodging, entertainment, dining, etc.




Whether you accept it or not, gaming is spreading so that more and more places offer legal gambling. Already, every metropolis in the US has legal gaming within 2-3 hours drive if not locally or online. For this reason, fewer people come to Vegas to gamble. The casinos know this, hence the shift in revenues and branding. They are not merely casinos, they are casino hotels. They don't just have gaming, they have dining and shows and shopping. Vegas won't be Vegas if we lost those giant themed hotels on the Strip. But there's a good chance Vegas would still be a travel destination even if they were "just" hotels with entertainment, shopping, and dining. 

The city would certainly survive. There's too much here. There's a major university, a nascar racetrack, a symphony, ballet, tons of shopping, etc. We're home to Zappos... We might not remain a top tourist destination, I don't know, but the million people who don't work on The Strip probably wouldn't just up and move. 

(For the record, we're not actually tied to Vegas professionally. My husband can gamble in many places and much of our income comes from non-gaming. We live here because we like it.)


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