# [2008] Sandcastle Shift to "Festiva" Points [merged]



## GordonH

I understand that owners at Sandcastles in PTown are being FORCED to pay $3,000 to $7,000 to convert to points and there is no choice in the matter.  Owners are being threatened with a lawsuit if they do not comply.  Comments would be appreciated.


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## Pat H

I hadn't heard that yet but I don't see how they can threaten you with a lawsuit if you don't convert. I'll be compaining to the BBB and the Attorney General's office if they try that with me.


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## Jennie

What type of ownership do you have? If one owns a fixed/deeded week, I can't imagine any way in which anyone can be forced to do anything they don't want to do. This resort is in the United States! Deeded property, even a timeshare, is governed by strong protective laws. 

This sounds like a slimy sales tactic being used by a rogue salesperson. It should be reported immediately to the General Manager of the sales team, as well as to the Attorney General's Office and whatever state regulatory agency oversees real estate issues.


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## Pat H

It is deeded/fixed. It's illegal to threaten someone with an action that they know can't be taken.


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## theo

*Forced?...Can't happen*



GordonH said:


> I understand that owners at Sandcastles in PTown are being FORCED to pay $3,000 to $7,000 to convert to points and there is no choice in the matter.  Owners are being threatened with a lawsuit if they do not comply.  Comments would be appreciated.



Frankly, this sounds highly improbable. Massachusetts isn't Mexico --- such empty, idle threats would likely elicit more laughter than actual concern in Massachusetts, particulalry with a competent and active District Court located just a few towns and tweny five miles away in Orleans.  

For what it's worth, I seem to recall having seen relatively recent mention (either on this site or on TS4MS, I can't recall which) of a complete change in management at this facility. You might want to conduct a search here (and on TS4MS) to see if any owners may have already offered any first hand input, knowledge or experiences regarding what other "changes" might also be accompanying that reported change in management. As far as anyone being "threatened" with a lawsuit, if true the appropriate response would surely be "I'll see you in court then. I'll bring my valid, recorded deed and you can bring anything you choose. Meanwhile, have a nice day...".  

I don't claim to know much about this facility or its practices. I do know, however, that *no* facility can "force" any owner to involuntarily re-purchase that which they *already* own by valid, recorded deed.  While the facility may convert to points in a revenue - raising effort, no owner can ever be "forced" to join (let alone pay to buy into) the new scheme...


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## Sandy VDH

There is new management.  I just received my invoice for MFs and I noticed no mention about converting the resort to points.  

They could NOT force any current owner to convert to points, that is an optional decision, not a mandatory one.  Many resorts do use it as a cash cow as RCI only charges a small fee to convert to points, the resorts add a huge huge markup to generate more revenue.


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## Corky

I own a fixed week at Sandcastle and haven't received any threats, just the bill for maintenance fees due.


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## Rambler65

I have a friend who spent a week at the Sandcastle after the new management took over.  Apparently a company called Festiva has been invited to sell their points system to our owners.  

My friend was ushered into a Festiva sales meeting and told a bunch of BS.  Festiva sales people stated they bought the Sandcastle (not true), that maintenance fees would tripple (we know from our recent bills that is not true) and they would no longer be able to trade their units for weeks at other resorts. From what I'm told owners were "bullied" by the Festiva sales people.  I'm not surprised some where threatened with lawsuits.  These sales people appear to be the scum of the earth, and will say or do anything to get a sale.  Anyone who asked for things they were being told in writing were told NO.

Upon hearing this I did a little research and found this same type of activity has been going on at other resorts for years, with Festiva using the same types of deceptive sales practices.

I joined this users group, who has been dealing with Festiva for the past two years, and got a wealth of information on Festiva practices on the forum.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Equivest-PeppertreeOwners/

In a nut shell, you will be contacted by Festiva or they may call themselves Outfield Marketing.  They will want to meet with you in your home, and try to get your deeded property and 3K to exchange for Festiva points.

While I realize that you can find a person who has a bad opinion on just about anything on the web, I have not found one positive comment about Festiva.  I have never run across so many negative experiences, and a users group dedicated to trying to deal with a deceptive company.

I am steering clear of Festiva and their points system.


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## Sandy VDH

Rambler65 said:


> I am steering clear of Festiva and their points system.



I would too.  Festiva does NOT have a good reputation IMHO.


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## Scott_Ru

Festiva has also purchased Southcape on the Cape and are trying the same thing.  (They did not suggest a deeded owner *must* pay and move to their points system.  But what they *did* strongly say is "there will be a huge assessment coming and those who do not move to points will bear the major burden of it."

Needless to say, we did not move to points.  Can't see "buying" something I already own.


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## Laurie

My understanding about points is that these are Festiva points, not RCI points. I've spoke a couple of times by phone with sales people who are now located onsite at Sandcastle.

I'm a Sandcastle owner too, and I know the relationship between Festiva and Sandcastle was mentioned in our latest newsletter, but I've misplaced mine - anyone want to post the paragraph here?

Festiva is  not being honest about there being a relationship between Sandcastle and Festiva - check out this other TUG thread:

http://tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=70318&page=11

(read all pages for a glimpse of Festiva's reputation)

and these posts, between myself and an official Festiva rep:



Laurie said:


> Hi FestivaRep,
> 
> Can you tell us anything about the new/upcoming association between Sandcastle Resort in Provincetown and Festiva?
> 
> First, is this true? - is Festiva the new management company? If so, what benefits might there be, if any, to fixed weeks owners who don't convert to any points system? And, what special assessments might be slated for 2009?





FestivaRep said:


> Festiva Resorts is not the new management company for the Sandcastle Resort, therefore we have no knowledge or control of any assessments for 2009.



I'd sure like to know what's up, too!


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## Rambler65

Festiva not being honest, kind of par for the coarse but in this case I think the rep was being honest.

I have the owners letter, in an early paragraph it says that the Sandcastle is being "affiliated" with Festiva in addition to RCI.  Also says they will be affiliating with II. It states it is to "offer owners as many vacation opportunities as possible."

The 2nd paragraph states the resort will be managed by New England Vacations Management Services LLC.  The name of the company that bought the unsold Sandcastle stock is New England Vacation Services, so I assume they are somehow related.  Cliff Hagberg of Cape Cod is "Managing General Partner."   I guess the real question is who else if anyone is part of the LLC?  Hopefully Festiva is not involved.

2nd to last paragraph states the Sandcastle for the 1st time has the services of a professional marketing company, "Outfield Marketing," who we now know is Festiva.  Goes on to state "this is critically important to sell the weeks owned by delinquent owners and generate maintenance fees."

My guess is that Festiva was invited to sell and market revoked Sandcastle weeks, in exchange they can push their points system.  Just speculation on my part.


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## Corky

*Future Of Sandcastle??*

Is there any new information regarding New England Vacation Services?  The old Sandcastle web site is gone, and no one answered the telephone at Sandcastle this evening.  

Instead, a recording suggested that owners contact NECS to learn about new opportunities.  When I called, I was told that an agent of the new management company is making INDIVIDUAL appointments in the privacy of your own home to share new information.  Sounds a bit scary.

What is the future of Sandcastle?? I'd appreciate any tidbits, and am hoping my fixed week is safe.


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## theo

I don't know if you did any searching or saw them already, but there are a number of posts concerning Sandcastle (assuming that you mean the Sandcastle in P'town, MA) in this same forum from some weeks back. All of those posts have most recent dates of between 11/23 --11/30 and you can easily find them in this very forum, a few "pages" back. Subjects were "Sandcastle Ptown owners ---major news" and "Sandcastle Shifts to Points". You may find some input (or other links) of interest to you there...


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## Corky

Thanks, Theo.  I did read some old posts but was hoping for new information which will affect old weeks owners.

I appreciate your reply.


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## Welfaric

*So my date with NES is 2/9 at 8pm*

So I will find out what NES wants soon, and I will post it all right here so we can get some more info on what the heck an organization thinks it can sway owners into doing. 

I hope all owners will stay with Sandcastle and not let NES nudge, fool or sway their ownership rights away.

If it’s all about them upgrading the place so be it, I will be happy to let them improve everything, just as long as it costs me no thin dimes. Way to tuff of times for anyone to be thinking upgrading something that works just so they get more cash in their pockets.

If I am off base and they just want to come to my house and bring me chocolate then sorry about this here post.


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## Dtbsmb94

We met with rep last night from Outfield Marketing LTD which Sandcastle has hired to try to get owners to convert to the points sytem.  We were told once Sandcastle was brought up to par that it will become part of the Festiva Resorts.  It is currently owned by New England Vacation Services, LLC but starting in 2010 will become part of Festiva.  We were not told that we HAD to convert to the points system but if we did not that we would have to pay several upcoming assessments and that the one for 2009 is going to be $600 per unit/week owned.  We were also informed that Sandcastle will not be affiliated with RCI but they could not tell us when that would change.  They said that Sandcastle will be affiliated with Interval International for doing external exchanges and Festiva Resorts for doing internal exhanges (if you convert to points).  To convert to the points was to cost $2990 plus $195 fee for each deed to be signed over to them and that the deed would be held in a trust.  We would still be responsible for 2009 Maintenance fees that were billed and if you do not convert to points then you will be charged a $600 assessment for 2009 per week/unit owned.  New maintenance fee will be applied if you convert to point system and the amount you pay is based on the points you own starting in 2010.  Example, for my week 28 studio unit I would get 3300 points and my week 13 studio unit i would get 1900 points and my new maintenance fees for those 2 weeks together would be $730.  So I would be paying $3400 to convert to points and still pay the same $ for maintenance fees???  Where is the benefit to me??  2009 Maintenance fees are $354 per week x 2 equals $708.  What a headache these people are giving me!


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## theo

*Interesting...but somehow not entirely credible*

Re: >> We were not told that we HAD to convert to the points system but if we did not that we would have to pay several upcoming assessments and that the one for 2009 is going to be $600 per unit/week owned. <<

Part of that is certainly true, since *no* owner of a deeded fixed week *anywhere* can *ever* be forced to convert to points... 

What I find truly curious here, however, is the apparent implied (or maybe stated outright) suggestion by the rep(s) that special assessments might somehow be charged only to those owners declining to convert to points. Frankly, I cannot believe that this could be even remotely legal. To my knowledge, a facility cannot "selectively" impose assessments *only* upon some owners without imposing said fees upon all owners, across the board. 

This all sounds (to me, anyhow) like nothing more than a contrived, revenue raising scheme, seemingly attempting to get owners to "buy" (...all over again) that which they *already* own outright right now, employing subtle (and quite possibly untruthful) scare tactics as "motivation". Why would any owner in his / her right mind even consider paying money to buy all over again what they own already now, free and clear???  

================================================

Re: >> We were also informed that Sandcastle will not be affiliated with RCI but they could not tell us when that would change.  They said that Sandcastle will be affiliated with Interval International for doing external exchanges and Festiva Resorts for doing internal exhanges (if you convert to points).<<

It would be interesting to learn of II's take on this unsubstantiated claim. 
II is historically somewhat selective about resort affiliation. RCI gladly affiliates with any resort, anywhere, anytime --- not so with Interval Intl. This "future" II affiliation might prove to be more of a "hope" than a factual  reality when all the Outfield marketing rep(s) smoke and BS clears away...


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## e.bram

I suppose that Festiva could pay the assessments out of the points conversion money and still come out way ahead. If they  spent SA the money improving the TS, I guess that is OK.


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## sullco

*Festiva people will go to jail*

Massachusetts has a very competent and enthusiastic legal system that has nailed bad guy timeshare people before.  They will do it again in this case.

Someone should simply "wear a wire" and get the goods on the sales slime--no this isn't someone who has watched too many cop shows talking.

I think that there remain some of "The Worst People in the World" (thanks Keith Oberman of MSNBC) in the low end of timeshare sales.  

Festiva may well have more than their share.

Do not fall for this.


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## Bill4728

Theo said:
			
		

> ...  if we did not (convert to the points system) that we would have to pay several upcoming assessments and that the one for 2009 is going to be $600 per unit/week owned. <<
> 
> What I find truly curious here, however, is the apparent implied (or maybe stated outright) suggestion by the rep(s) that special assessments might somehow be charged only to those owners declining to convert to points. Frankly, I cannot believe that this could be even remotely legal. To my knowledge, a facility cannot "selectively" impose assessments only upon some owners without imposing said fees upon all owners, across the board.



Yes, you are so right. A TS can't "selectively" impose assessments. All owner must pay the SA. BUT Festivia can choose to pay the SA for their points owners. 


			
				e.bram said:
			
		

> I suppose that Festiva could pay the assessments out of the points conversion money and still come out way ahead.


They could pass it along as increased MFs or as E Bram said take it out of the $3000 the charged to convert people to Festiva.


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## theo

*I'm not certain this approach would even be lawful...*



> ...take it out of the $3000 they charged to convert...



I don't know about that...
In fact, I wonder if that approach would even be an available legal option. 

The phrase "co-mingling of funds'" somehow comes immediately to mind here, making me wonder if it might not also come immediately to mind for investigating state authorities as well. Festiva, with its' well established (..ahem) "credibility issues", might just be a prime target for investigators. The Secretary of State in MA is someone with whom I went to school; he is very bright, very aggressive and certainly "does *not* suffer fools gladly". 
He has a solid track record of routinely indicting and /or eating for breakfast those corporations which attempt to operate improperly in MA; they apparently provide a good source of digestible dietary fiber for him...

Festiva may very well ultimately find that they have unwisely brought their Little League team to play in a Major League ball park --- and a hostile one at that. Attempting to play that far "over their heads" may just prove to have some unexpected and unfortunate consequences for them...


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## Welfaric

*Just canceled our meeting with NES*

I just canceled the meeting we set up. I asked to have the info just mailed out and she said they could not do that because it contains personal data. She did say we could just wait to see what the assessments are when they come out. I would rather they just mail me any info I need to make decisions on my property. She did say there was some other place I could go to talk to the rep, but I do not remember the name of the property.


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## Sou13

*Southcape Resort owners, beware of Outfield Marketing!*

The Southcape Resort and Club in Mashpee, MA has been acquired by the New England Vacation Services and interval owners are being contacted by Outfield Marketing sales reps who want to meet in their homes to "explain the changes"!

Southcape interval owners, don't fall for it!  I have a lot of info to contribute to this Timeshare User's Group just as soon as I can find a way to get in touch with other owners.

My first post to this forum is found at
http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=84127


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## theo

*Different topic --- consider starting a new thread...*



Sou13 said:


> The Southcape Resort and Club in Mashpee, MA has been acquired by the New England Vacation Services and interval owners are being contacted by Outfield Marketing sales reps who want to meet in their homes to "explain the changes"!



The topic of *this* particular ongoing thread is actually the Sandcastle Resort located in Provincetown, MA. 

With due respect, if you want to initiate a new discussion about an entirely different resort in Mashpee, it would be much better noticed by (more appropriately) starting a new thread on your new "Southcape" subject --- instead of hijacking this Sandcastle thread...


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## tombo

Do not pay to convert to Festiva points. These points are almost worthless (I have seen several Festiva points weeks for sale on e-bay and none ever got a bid) and once you convert to Festiva points you will no longer own anything.You will simply be a member of their club, obligated to pay whatever MF's and assesments they deem necessary, but with no real ownership and no vote.You will have all of the obligations that come with ownership but none of the rights that owners have. Festiva will own your week and vote your week in block to levy assessments, elect HOA board members, and to vote themselves in as the management company. They took over one of my favorite resorts and they are trying very hard to assess everyone to upgrade the resort so they can more easily sell their points with granite counters, flat screen TV's etc. Check out how much they have raised MF's at Church Street Inn in Charleston and their Atrium St Maarten resort. A group of Atrium owners have a class action law suit against Festiva for trying to take away some rights and for increasing MF's at a higher rate than allowed in their contract at their resort since Festiva purchased it. They also got sued and aettled with the Missouri Attorney Generals office for unfair and misleading sales tactics.

There was a Festiva rep answering questions on another thread and here is one of her responses: "To answer the concern about the board being picked by owners and Festiva casting votes as opposed to Adventure Club members, our Adventure Club members do not actually own deeded real estate at any of our resorts; rather, they have a 40 year club membership. Therefore, they are not a part of a specific property's HOA." The thread is very long but worth reading. http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=70318


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## gravityrules

Several posts mention Festiva 'acquiring' or 'owning' this resort or others.  Isn't this a sold-out resort that is controlled by the owners through an HOA?  How did Festiva gain control of the HOA?


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## theo

*Actual resort "acquistion" vs. a controlling majority influence...*



gravityrules said:


> Several posts mention Festiva 'acquiring' or 'owning' this resort or others.  Isn't this a sold-out resort that is controlled by the owners through an HOA?  How did Festiva gain control of the HOA?




Unless I'm mistaken, Festiva can "own" only unsold weeks (if any) which they purchase, foreclosed weeks, and those weeks which they can cajole unwitting deeded owners out of, thereby making those (...now former) deeded owners "Festiva Adventure Club members" instead. That said, it's not unthinkable that Festiva could still become a statistical majority influence at the facility (hence the current aggressive marketing campaign, undoubtedly seeking to accomplish exactly that very objective).

One really and truly has to wonder why *any* deeded owner with even half a brain would voluntarily take the regressive, backward step of voluntarily forfeiting their deeded ownership --- and even *PAYING* to do so.


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## ecwinch

I think the cautionary tale here is for HOA/BOD's to really think through the future implications of entering into a deal like the one here. Up front, you definitely can see how a HOA might view Festiva as a godsend - particularly if the resort has a large number of weeks without owners (foreclosed, or deeded back, etc).

Selling them at a bulk rate to someone like Festiva, and providing them with access of your members certainly solves the immediate problem. But in long run, what you really are doing is selling them control of the resort.


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## Sou13

theo said:


> The topic of *this* particular ongoing thread is actually the Sandcastle Resort located in Provincetown, MA.
> 
> With due respect, if you want to initiate a new discussion about an entirely different resort in Mashpee, it would be much better noticed by (more appropriately) starting a new thread on your new "Southcape" subject --- instead of hijacking this Sandcastle thread...



So sorry, I was only trying to alert the Users' Group to the same thing going on at Southcape, not trying to hijack the discussion.

Keep this discussion going and I will keep the Southcape discussion going as long as I have more info to contribute about Festiva Adventure Club, Outfield Marketing, New England Vacation Services, etc.


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## Corky

I wonder how many Sandcastle owners are planning to attend this year's April 25 meeting?  As owners, will we have any real voting power?


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## Sou13

*Letter from Cliff Hagberg*

This is a scanned email attachment so it might not work:
Letter from Cliff Hagberg [final].docx (4195KB)

No, it doesn't work but if you want me to email it to you, I can do so.  Meanwhile I have reproduced it on page one of the Southcape Resort discussion:  http://tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?p=668326#post668326

It may be eeriily similar if not identical to the letter that Sandcastle interval owners received!


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## Rambler65

Sou13 said:


> Letter from Cliff Hagberg
> 
> I have reproduced it on page one of the Southcape Resort discussion:  http://tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?p=668326#post668326
> 
> It may be eeriily similar if not identical to the letter that Sandcastle interval owners received!



*WOW!*

If you replace South Cape with Sandcastle, the letter you reproduced on the South Cape thread reads almost word for word like the Sandcastle letter I received from Cliff.  Amazing that two unaffiliated resorts would have the same "problems," which of coarse Cliff is working hard to address.  I guess this will be handy info to have when it's time to go to the AG's office.


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## Rambler65

Corky said:


> I wonder how many Sandcastle owners are planning to attend this year's April 25 meeting?  As owners, will we have any real voting power?



I'm going, and bringing a tape recorder.  Everything said should be for the record, right?

Plan to bring a tape recorder when I go to Sandcastle on vacation too.  Want to be ready for my sales, um I mean resort status meeting presented by Festiva.  If I can't tape the sales meeting, I'm not going.  Well maybe I will, but only to ask questions and cause trouble.


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## tombo

Get copies of the letters they sent the owners at Church Street Inn in Charleston and the Atrium in St Maarten when they took over those resorts, because they sound almost identical also.

Festiva seems to come into every resort, announce that the MF's will not cover expenses, then they raise MF's. Then every resort they gain control of is announced to be in a sad shape of disrepair and must be upgraded immediatelly, so they must assess. In addition, every resort they gain control of has been operating with no reserves for years (according to them) which is unacceptable, so they must assess for that too. Why does Festiva insist on only buying resorts that are in shambles, that have no reserves, who's MF's are inadequate, and who need assessments and MF increases to even survive one more year? 

When Festiva takes over I would suggest making a call to say goodbye or write a farewell letter to all of your favorite office managers and front desk people. Tell them that you have enjoyed seeing them for the last decade and tell them that you appreciate the great job they have done because Festiva will get rid of all long term employees who are loyal to the owners and replace them with employees loyal to Festiva. They don't want anyone working at the resort who would tell owners what things are occuring regarding finances, expenses, expenditures, etc. IMO. Your long term employees are on borrowed time. Their life will be made miserable so that they will quit, or they will find a reason to fire them.

Good luck with the attorney general. The only thing that will stop them is being hit in the pocketbook IMO.


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## PClapham

Would it be useful if everyone contacted asked first for a copy of the entire budget of the resort?
Anita


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## Rambler65

PClapham said:


> Would it be useful if everyone contacted asked first for a copy of the entire budget of the resort?
> Anita



I don't think Festiva would want to present that info.  Heck, people who have went to sales meetings and asked for the presentation in writing, were told *NO*!  

I think the most useful thing owners can do, is remain owners.  If Festiva can't get enough people to fork over their deeded property, maybe they will go away.

Personally, I like my place at Sandcastle and enjoy it as my home port. I wouldn't want to be an adventure club member, and end up who knows where each year.  Don't get me wrong, we do our share of RCI trades, but also enjoy having Sandcaslte as our main vacation destination.


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## PClapham

Wouldn't being told "no" to a request for the budget, especially to multiple people, be grounds for a letter to the attorney general of Massachusetts?
Anita


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## Sou13

*I hope so!*



PClapham said:


> Wouldn't being told "no" to a request for the budget, especially to multiple people, be grounds for a letter to the attorney general of Massachusetts?
> Anita



We at Soutcape were promised a copy of the budget.  What we got instead was a $400 "special assessment" http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?p=667167#post667167


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## tombo

Sou13 said:


> We at Soutcape were promised a copy of the budget.  What we got instead was a $400 "special assessment" http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?p=667167#post667167



Welcome to Festiva. They are going to give Wastegate a run for their money to see who wins the award for the worst timeshare organization in existence. Westgate had a huge head start, but Festiva is rapidly closing the gap.


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## Sou13

*"terms And Conditions"*

I've managed to copy the TERMS AND CONDITIONS for membership in the Festiva Adventure Club and will email them upon request.


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## CharlesS

tombo said:


> Why does Festiva insist on only buying resorts that are in shambles, that have no reserves, who's MF's are inadequate, and who need assessments and MF increases to even survive one more year?


Because those resorts are the cheapest!
Charles


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## tombo

CharlesS said:


> Because those resorts are the cheapest!
> Charles



I have a different opinion. In my opinion the resorts they gain control of are operating just fine on their current MF's. Checks aren't bouncing and bills are being paid. All are in good shape, maybe not Gold Crown, but in good shape. All have some sort of reserves.The letters they send the owners at the resorts they take over are simply generic imaginary scare tactics to raise MF's and assess IMO. I think they raise MF's to line their pockets and pay their Mgt company, and I think that they assess to fleece the owners even more.They assess to upgrade the resorts at the owner's expense so they can sell their points easier and for higher prices. Would these resorts that Festiva took over (which have operated in the black for decades without Festiva's help) folded or filed bankruptcy in the near future if Festiva hadn't come?  Not in my opinion.


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## Sou13

*More links*

If you click on the link in my signature, it will take you to the letter from Cliff Hagberg that we Southcape Resort owners received in October, 2009.  If you continue to page 3 you will find links to more unhappy Festiva members, posted by tombo.


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## Sou13

*Make that October, 2008!*



Sou13 said:


> If you click on the link in my signature, it will take you to the letter from Cliff Hagberg that we Southcape Resort owners received in October, 2009.  If you continue to page 3 you will find links to more unhappy Festiva members, posted by tombo.



I don't seem able to edit the above post, so please note that I *meant* October, 2008!


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## Sou13

*Email Answered!*

_The by laws are not in a form we can email to you easily but I have attached a link that will take you to them.
www.southcaperesort.com/masterdeed.html 

The trustees are Clifford Hagberg, Steven Lamantia and Thomas C. Franks and we can all be reached in care of the resort.
I have also attached a copy of the 2009 Operating Budget
Please let me know if I may be of further assistance.
Cliff Hagberg_


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## Sou13

*Posted to the wrong discussion*



Sou13 said:


> _The by laws are not in a form we can email to you easily but I have attached a link that will take you to them.
> www.southcaperesort.com/masterdeed.html
> 
> The trustees are Clifford Hagberg, Steven Lamantia and Thomas C. Franks and we can all be reached in care of the resort.
> I have also attached a copy of the 2009 Operating Budget
> Please let me know if I may be of further assistance.
> Cliff Hagberg_



Somehow I posted this to the wrong discussion and the moderator didn't delete it.  But you need it as much as we do, so let's hope it doesn't get deleted.


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## Welfaric

*They came and went,*

So we got a few calls after canceling the meeting, and I said they could come over again. But because my better half was not here the guy had nothing to say and was a little miffed we were not both there. Funny, I mean if it was a great deal without any pressure why would they care if only one partner was around.

But he did say I would be getting an assessment charge in the near future and I could still use RCI to trade my week, then left.

What is so secret, cannot be above board if they just don’t lay it out for everyone to read.

No hot cocoa for me!


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## Sou13

*"Special Assessment"*

If the same thing happens to you as has happened to us at Southcape, Outfield Marketing will keep its promise and you can *expect to receive a "Special Assessment" just to scare you into converting your deeded weeks!

I have started a discussion of Festiva on TUG at http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?p=684782#post684782*


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## Welfaric

*This is not the time to polish up a gem*

I think this is not the time to fix up Sand Castle, the economy is not at its best and folks are trying to use their money for more useful items. If the corp. that runs this resort wants to be the partner to us all that it should be it will maintain this resort in a working fashion and make sure it keeps well within its budget and try’s its hardest to keep the owners from  incurring any fees.
Soon when the economy comes back they can think of fixing up this resort, but not now.
If they go on and fix it up and send out huge bills to us owners, then they are without dough trying to get us to default so they can steal our deeds.

I am not happy thinking I could be charged to polish something just so it shines, but its ok to patch a leak.


----------



## ecwinch

Welfaric said:


> I think this is not the time to fix up Sand Castle, the economy is not at its best and folks are trying to use their money for more useful items. If the corp. that runs this resort wants to be the partner to us all that it should be it will maintain this resort in a working fashion and make sure it keeps well within its budget and try’s its hardest to keep the owners from  incurring any fees.
> Soon when the economy comes back they can think of fixing up this resort, but not now.
> If they go on and fix it up and send out huge bills to us owners, then they are without dough trying to get us to default so they can steal our deeds.
> 
> I am not happy thinking I could be charged to polish something just so it shines, but its ok to patch a leak.



Silly wwRabbit. Cliff has got a huge mortgage he has got to pay. Toward that end I think your goals are not mutually aligned.


----------



## Carolinian

Rambler65 said:


> I don't think Festiva would want to present that info.  Heck, people who have went to sales meetings and asked for the presentation in writing, were told *NO*!
> 
> I think the most useful thing owners can do, is remain owners.  If Festiva can't get enough people to fork over their deeded property, maybe they will go away.
> 
> Personally, I like my place at Sandcastle and enjoy it as my home port. I wouldn't want to be an adventure club member, and end up who knows where each year.  Don't get me wrong, we do our share of RCI trades, but also enjoy having Sandcaslte as our main vacation destination.



Check your state laws as to what you are entitled to.  As a timeshare owner, you are entitled to inspect and copy most records.  If the resort is stonewalling on that, something fishy is going on.

Write them a letter, addressed to the appropriate person, send it certified and a copy to the state AG and to the office that regulates timeshare, usually the state Real Estate Commission, and specifically demand to inspect and copy every record that the statute entitles you to.  Get to the bottom of what is really going on.


----------



## Carolinian

Given the common lies, scams, and pressure tactics, has anyone thought about talking to a US Attorney of going for the jugular in this situation against the whole operation under the RICO statutes?


----------



## Sou13

Carolinian said:


> Given the common lies, scams, and pressure tactics, has anyone thought about talking to a US Attorney of going for the jugular in this situation against the whole operation under the RICO statutes?


How do we find those "RICO" statutes?


----------



## Sou13

Carolinian said:


> Check your state laws as to what you are entitled to.  As a timeshare owner, you are entitled to inspect and copy most records.  If the resort is stonewalling on that, something fishy is going on.


Two owners who went to the Southcape Resort manager asking for these records were turned away because the owners' list is "confidential" and supposedly protected by the privacy laws.  

I emailed the resort manager with a request to inspect the books and copy the owners' address list while at the resort today.  When I asked her whether she'd received my email request she couldn't find it.  She had forwarded a previous message to Cliff Hagberg, who has yet to reply.  Her answer is the same, that we were told at the owners' meeting that the mailing list is confidential and protected by privacy laws.  

Your suggestion about the real estate commission may be worth pursuing.  In the meantime, my request to inspect the books while I'm on-site has been stonewalled, JUST AS I EXPECTED.


----------



## ecwinch

Sou13 said:


> Carolinian said:
> 
> 
> 
> Check your state laws as to what you are entitled to.  As a timeshare owner, you are entitled to inspect and copy most records.  If the resort is stonewalling on that, something fishy is going on.
> QUOTE]
> Two owners who went to the Southcape Resort manager asking for these records were turned away because the owners' list is "confidential" and supposedly protected by the privacy laws.
> 
> I emailed the resort manager with a request to inspect the books and copy the owners' address list while at the resort today.  When I asked her whether she'd received my email request she couldn't find it.  She had forwarded a previous message to Cliff Hagberg, who has yet to reply.  Her answer is that same, that we were told at the owners' meeting that the mailing list is confidential and protected by privacy laws.
> 
> Your suggestion about the real estate commission may be worth pursuing.  In the meantime, my request to inspect the books while I'm on-site has been stonewalled, JUST AS I EXPECTED.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In regards to the members list, this is the same approach that the Worldmark took. The laws are different in California, but the net result was a lawsuit was filed, with the member initially representing themself (pro se). Court sided with the member, but the issue is stayed, pending on appeal in California.
> 
> I would exhaust all non-legal options first. My next step would be to send a Demand Letter outlining your request. If it were me, in my demand letter I would request that they provide the list as required by statue/code, OR provide a reasonable compromise that allows you to contact the members to discuss member issues. Put the ball back into their court. Then if you need to move forward, you can demonstrate how reasonable you were, and how their only interest was to block owner communication.
> 
> In regards to inspecting the other records, I would prepare that demand letter now, referencing the previous e-mail. I would hand carry a copy to the office. You clearly gave notice that you wanted to inspect the books as permitted by statue.
Click to expand...


----------



## Fig

*Member Lists and Cliff Hagberg*

Cliff Hagberg trustee at Sandcastle and Southcape is always asking us to Google him. He also manages the lists of both HOAs through NEVM. Well here's something interesting that I Googled up:

"NEVM’s resorts are sold-out properties, managed under the auspices of homeowner associations (HOAs). HOA boards are closely regulated by state and federal law and are required to be able to demonstrate that they have honored their fiduciary responsibility while overseeing the resort. New England Vacation Management takes this obligation very seriously, both from the desire to remain in compliance with the law, as well as ethically."

http://askmando.com/authors/brosious_matt/resort_management_software.html


Surely Cliff is familar with Massachusetts General Laws as they pertain to timeshare lists. Chapter 183b, Section 32

(b) The managing entity shall keep reasonably available for inspection and copying by any time-share owner all addresses, known to it or to the developer, of all the time-share owners with the principal permanent residence address of each indicated if known. The managing entity shall revise continually the list of addresses in the light of any information it obtains, and the developer shall keep the managing entity advised of any information he has or obtains.

http://www.mass.gov/legis/laws/mgl/183b-32.htm

Now why would a man who comes onto this board and wants to clear his name and is quoted as taking very seriously legal and ethical issues refuse to let owners see the list? One wonders.


----------



## Carolinian

Right there on Cape Cod, you have already had one success in kicking out developer management and getting a homeowner controlled board.  See www.edgewaterownersma.com

You might get some advice and tactical assistance from them.


----------



## Fig

Carolinian said:


> Right there on Cape Cod, you have already had one success in kicking out developer management and getting a homeowner controlled board.  See www.edgewaterownersma.com
> 
> You might get some advice and tactical assistance from them.



Nice find, Carolinian. They are impressive. A pdf right on the site which is run by owners addressed to the Massachusetts AG clearly spelling out the violation of Mass statues. http://www.edgewaterownersma.com/frequently_asked_questions/sample 93A.pdf  I guess they have over 200 complaints filed! Why not do one with the owner list violation for this resort? Owners?


----------



## ChrisH

*CALL THE AG Hotline*

I emailed the resort manager with a request to inspect the books and copy the owners' address list while at the resort today.  When I asked her whether she'd received my email request she couldn't find it.  She had forwarded a previous message to Cliff Hagberg, who has yet to reply.  Her answer is that same, that we were told at the owners' meeting that the mailing list is confidential and protected by privacy laws.  

Your suggestion about the real estate commission may be worth pursuing.  In the meantime, my request to inspect the books while I'm on-site has been stonewalled, JUST AS I EXPECTED.[/QUOTE]

Now that they refused to provide you with an owners list you should call the Attorney General’s Public Inquiry & Assistance Center Hotline at 617-727-8400 and site:

Chapter 183B: Section 32. Definitions; list of addresses of owners; ballots; communication expenses; vote allocation; notice; recording amendments 

2 (b) The managing entity shall keep reasonably available for inspection and copying by any time-share owner all addresses, known to it or to the developer, of all the time-share owners with the principal permanent residence address of each indicated if known. The managing entity shall revise continually the list of addresses in the light of any information it obtains, and the developer shall keep the managing entity advised of any information he has or obtains. 

Ask them what your next step is.  Certified mail? OR maybe THEY will contact the resort and tell them to get their act together.  
Be able to provide them with names and addresses and email accounts that  you contacted over the phone.  

Southcape can always say the person didn't know they could release it, they didn't get the email etc.  And remember, Cliff is watching  you and us - so they were probably prepared for your request and avoided you - I wonder why.  

GOOD LUCk,   GOOD JOB,  YAHOO!


----------



## ChrisH

Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organizations Act 
The Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organizations Act (RICO), 18 U.S.C. §§ 1961-1968, has been used to attack various forms of fraud, including consumer fraud. Civil penalties include treble damages and attorney fees. 18 U.S.C. § 1964. RICO claims must be based on a pattern of racketeering activity or collection of an illegal debt, terms which are defined in the statute and judicial decisions. In addition, there are complicated requirements involving the relationship between the defendant and an enterprise. Case law interpreting RICO is complex and in a constant state of flux, and there is some judicial hostility to it. Thus, care should be taken to follow the latest developments if this approach is considered. 

Massachusetts does not have an equivalent to RICO, however Chapter 93A offers many of the same advantages (e.g., treble damages) and it is less complex. RICO may have a broader scope than Chapter 93A and allows for federal jurisdiction, whereas Chapter 93A is limited to Massachusetts state courts.


----------



## ecwinch

ChrisH said:


> Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organizations Act
> The Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organizations Act (RICO), 18 U.S.C. §§ 1961-1968, has been used to attack various forms of fraud, including consumer fraud. Civil penalties include treble damages and attorney fees. 18 U.S.C. § 1964. RICO claims must be based on a pattern of racketeering activity or collection of an illegal debt, terms which are defined in the statute and judicial decisions. In addition, there are complicated requirements involving the relationship between the defendant and an enterprise. Case law interpreting RICO is complex and in a constant state of flux, and there is some judicial hostility to it. Thus, care should be taken to follow the latest developments if this approach is considered.
> 
> Massachusetts does not have an equivalent to RICO, however Chapter 93A offers many of the same advantages (e.g., treble damages) and it is less complex. RICO may have a broader scope than Chapter 93A and allows for federal jurisdiction, whereas Chapter 93A is limited to Massachusetts state courts.



It is a federal law. Typically it is invoked when the conspiracy involves a interstate criminal activity or conspiracy (Festiva in NC, NEVS in Mass). 

Also see the Bluebeards case in the Virgin Islands. They invoked RICO statues also.


----------



## ChrisH

*FYI: Festiva Club "Rules"  also posted on Southcape board*

FROM: Festival Resorts Adventure Club
Commonwealth of MA 
Public Offering Statement

6) Other Club-Related Information
a)As of December 31, 2008, there were a total of 13,200 Members in the Club. 

(Gee I was told that Festiva had 100,000 plus members and millions in reserve money)

V) Managing Entity (ies)
…. Each Member, other than the Developer, will be a Class A Member of the Association and is entitled to cast 1 (one) vote for each Point that he or she owns. The Developer (or any Appointee) is a Class B Member of the Association and is entitled to cast 3 (three) votes for each Point that the Developer owns.

…The Developer currently controls the Association, and the Developer has the right to retain control of the Association after a majority of points have been sold.

The Management Agreement has an initial term of five (5) years, commencing August 10, 2006 and expiring August 11, 2011, and will thereafter be automatically renewed for additional five (5) year terms, unless the Members by a vote of at least seventy-five (75%0 of the Voting Power residing in Members other than Developer at a meeting at which at least fifty percent (50%) of the Voting Power residing in Members other than Developer participate, by person or by proxy, elect not to renew the Management Agreement, or the Manager gives the Club sixty (60) days prior written notice…

VII 
2) i)  Standard Assessments. After the Board of Directors Approves and establishes the Budget, the Board of Directors determines the respective Standard Assessment to be levied on each Member according to the provisions of Section 11.2 of the Declaration. Each Member, including the Developer, shall pay a Standard Assessment for each membership owned. 

… Base Standard Assessment: $330.00 per Member
Points Standard Assessment: $0.75 per Point for Members with up to 5,999 Points: $0.65 per Point for Members with 6,000 or more Points.

And then there are those 'special assessments' on top of the Standard Assessments - was anyone told that??????


----------



## Sou13

Could you tell us where you found this "Public Offering Statement"?


----------



## ChrisH

*Public Offering*

I's in the "Leather Binder" - but all the schedules and exhibits they reference are missing.  Couldn't find it online.


----------



## Fig

For some basic Festiva filings click this link and type in the name.
http://corp.sec.state.ma.us/corp/corpsearch/corpsearchinput.asp

Looks like they want to develop and sell timeshares in MA. Maybe they are more involved then Cliff is letting on?


----------



## Fig

ChrisH said:


> I's in the "Leather Binder" - but all the schedules and exhibits they reference are missing.  Couldn't find it online.



Maybe they planned to sell securites to pay off the loan and it fell thru when the market crashed? Que cahoonahs! Talk out a loan, buy a bunch of units...pay of the debt by unloading it on investors...then soak the owners for a special assesment to upgrade the property. You get your money back pronto and still get to sell the units down the line for a profit. However, looks like the public offering never took place, so NEVS is carrying millions in debt. Hold on to your pocketbooks folks!


----------



## Sou13

*Found at RedWeek.com*

Buy or Sell Timeshare Points and Credits
Timeshare points and credits can now be bought and sold on RedWeek.com using the same by-owner, membership supported format as our timeshare rentals and resales. RCI points, Wyndham Vacation Ownership points, Bluegreen Resorts points, and most major timeshare points systems are available. 

_*Festiva Resorts currently manages and owns 16 properties throughout the Midwest, southeast and Caribbean and owns developer inventory at an additional eight resorts. The Festiva Adventure Club, a points-based program that was launched in 2006, allows members to travel throughout the Festiva Resorts network and exchange with Interval International. 

Festiva Sailing Vacations, a Festiva Resorts company that operates the Festiva Cruise Club, charters all-inclusive luxury catamaran yachts in four locations in the Caribbean including the British Virgin Islands, the Grenadines, St. Maarten and the Bahamas.*_


----------



## Sou13

*A typo?*



ChrisH said:


> VII
> 2) i)  Standard Assessments. After the Board of Directors Approves and establishes the Budget, the Board of Directors determines the respective Standard Assessment to be levied on each Member according to the provisions of Section 11.2 of the Declaration. Each Member, including the Developer, shall pay a Standard Assessment for each membership owned.
> 
> … Base Standard Assessment: $330.00 per Member
> Points Standard Assessment: $0.75 per Point for Members with up to 5,999 Points: $0.65 per Point for Members with 6,000 or more Points.
> 
> And then there are those 'special assessments' on top of the Standard Assessments - was anyone told that??????


I asked where you found this "Public Offering Statement" because you must have made a mistake.  The per point assessment must be $0.075 per Point, not $0.75!  

In my case I was told that the MF would be $575 for 3500 points.  It turned out to be $602, not $575.  But at $0.75 per point the MF would be $2,625+330=$2955!


----------



## ChrisH

*Oops! Sorry about the math*

The statement reads $0.075 and $0.065 per point. Sorry
Chris


----------



## Sou13

*Public Offering Statement*



ChrisH said:


> The statement reads $0.075 and $0.065 per point. Sorry
> Chris


Is there a date on that "Public Offering Statement"?

The "Public Offering Statement" included in the contract with Southcape owners is published at http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthr...ent#post687123.  It has come to my attention that Festiva Resorts did not register to do business in Massachusetts until January 20, 2009, well after Outfield Marketing began registering conversions at https://72.8.52.132/ALIS/WW400R.HTM...XTP=A&W9FDTA=&W9TOWN=MASH&W9ABR=*ALL&W9INQ=AY


----------



## Marvan

*Sandcastle Resorts Deeded Weeks vs Points*

During November 2008 we received an undated form letter at our home address titled ”Dear Sandcastle Owner”, from New England Vacation Services LLC.  It was sent by Cliff Hagberg Managing General Partner of New England Vacation Management Services LLC.  The letter also states that New England Vacation Services LLC has affiliated Sandcastle Resorts with one of the premier vacation companies in the country, Festiva Resorts, in addition to RCI which Sandcastle has always had, and is in the process of affiliation with Interval International.  We subsequently received a call from a sales person from Outfield Marketing wanting to schedule an appointment at our home to discuss the new changes that were going to be made by the new owner “New England Vacation Services, LLC”.  We requested he send us a written summary, he declined stating it could only be discussed in person.  We declined.

We are deeded Time Share Owners at Sandcastle Resorts in Provincetown MA.  This year we rented prior to starting our deeded weeks.  The day we checked in we received a phone call from an on premise salesman from “Outfield Marketing”.  We asked how they knew we were at Sandcastle, we didn’t get an answer but were scheduled to a sales meeting to change from deeded ownership to the point system.  A meeting was scheduled with the salesman from Outfield Marketing.  He went thru his sales pitch speaking and making notes on sheets of paper extremely fast to the point it was almost impossible to keep up with him.  This consisted of the following:
1.  Exchanging each deeded week and paying $ 1,000. plus recording fees of  $ 195.     
     each week  For this we would receive 3,000 Festiva Resorts points for each week..  
    This was a one time offer and the payment would increase if we did not act today.  
2.  To purchase points outright, the minimum purchase is 1,800 points costing $ 6,000.  
     The charge for each time share week consisting of 3,000 points, was $ 3,995.  
3.  In addition he stated that our annual maintenance fees would increase dramatically 
     if we chose to stay with our deeded weeks, there was no current budget and the deficit 
     of $ 237,000. would soon exceed $ 300,000.
4.  The point system with the Festiva Resorts, the maintenance fees would remain stable
     due to their large reserve for maintenance and increases would only be a nominal 
     cost of living adjustment.
5.  A benefit with the point system is if you give over 30 days notice to the Resort for a 
     one week reservation it only costs you 1,900 points versus 3,000 points for less than 
     30 days notice.
6.  After our deeded weeks were transferred to New England Vacation Services, they 
     would be put into a Trust.  There wasn’t a clear explanation what that meant. 
7.  Some of his notes we could not decipher.
8.   He gave us a few days grace period to sign and pay the contract.  This was a one 
      time offer, after the few days the cost of acquiring the points would increase.

It was alluded to but not stated that after the conversion to 3,000 points per week we would continue to have our usual weeks at Sandcastle Resorts each year without limitation.   We didn’t get to ask our question “could the points required to stay at Sandcastle Resorts ever be increased over the current 3,000 points per week”?

The sales contract forms consisted of legal size sheets numbered 1 thru 8 (with two copies of page one), pages 9 thru 11 missing, letter size sheets numbered 12 thru 18 and unnumbered “Individual Membership Application”, all of which consist of the following pages:
Page
1.  New England Vacation Services Festiva Adventure Club Membership Application.
	2.  New England Vacation Services/Festiva Resorts Adventure Club, Purchasing and 
                 Security Agreement and Truth-in-Lending Disclosures.
	3 - 4 - 5 & 6  Terms and Conditions consisting of 26 items.
7.  New England Vacation Services Promissory Note.
8.  Festiva Resorts Adventure Club/NEVS Purchaser Acknowledgements.
Pages 9 thru 11 missing.
12.  Untitled – Contract #.   for credit card payment.
13.  New England Vacation Services, LLC, Bank Authorization Agreement For Pre-
       Approved payments (ACH Debits).
14.  New England Vacation Services, LLC, Credit Application and Agreement.
15.  Festiva Resorts Privacy Disclosure.
16.  NEVS/Festiva Resorts Adventure Club, Addendum to Purchaser Acknowledgment.
17.  New England Vacation Services, LLC, Policy Regarding Your Financial Privacy.
18.  Notice of Cancellation and unnumbered Membership Application.
Some questions for above forms:
Page 2      Equity upgrade from??  Term 40 years?  Did not hear of this during meeting.
Page 8      Membership level.  Non term points? These were not mentioned during meeting.
Page 5 – Item 15   Renewal rights for additional ten Years?  Didn’t hear about this limitation!
                 “    18  No oral or written statements are accepted as part of the contract, only the 
                             wordage which is contained within above documents is accepted.   So the rep. 
                             can say or write anything on a sheet of paper to make the sale and if it isn’t
                             contained within the above documents then the reps. statements are not valid..
Page 16     Par. 2   Membership does not include maintenance fees, but the purchase price does 
                              include the first year’s membership fees for Interval International?  What, first 
                              I’ve heard of this!  What is the annual membership after the first year?  And 
                              what if your not interested in ”Interval International”.
     Par. 3   Forms states salesman made no representation about increased maintenance 
                 fees.  We were told by rep that maintenances fees would increase greatly. 
	      Par. 5 We did not have the opportunity to ask many questions.
	        “   6   Rep. not well informed based on what he communicated to us, and no we were 
                              not satisfied with his sales pitch.   AND What are the missing pages 9 thru 11?

That, added to the fast talking salesman and his zooming paper doodling to emphasize his fast talking points.  When my wife attempted to ask him questions, he stated “who is running this meeting?” So for all of this we would get relieved of our deeded weeks and thousands of dollars for what benefit that was never made clear?  What happens to the deeded weeks and who eventually ends up with them?  A complaint letter was filed with MA Attorney General.

I suggest everyone that has had a bad experience file a written complaint to the MA Atty. General, that volume should ensure that an action will be taken.  A current list of deeded owners and addresses is a must for us to have to ensure that all deeded owners are informed of the meeting date and to have sufficient votes to overcome the New England Vacation Services LLC votes.  To anyone who has made a request for the list of deeded owners and was rejected, that is more than sufficient reason to file a written complaint to the MA Atty. General.


----------



## Fig

Marvan said:


> During November 2008 we received an undated form letter at our home address titled ”Dear Sandcastle Owner”, from New England Vacation Services LLC.  It was sent by Cliff Hagberg Managing General Partner of New England Vacation Management Services LLC.  The letter also states that New England Vacation Services LLC has affiliated Sandcastle Resorts with one of the premier vacation companies in the country, Festiva Resorts, in addition to RCI which Sandcastle has always had, and is in the process of affiliation with Interval International.  We subsequently received a call from a sales person from Outfield Marketing wanting to schedule an appointment at our home to discuss the new changes that were going to be made by the new owner “New England Vacation Services, LLC”.  We requested he send us a written summary, he declined stating it could only be discussed in person.  We declined.
> 
> We are deeded Time Share Owners at Sandcastle Resorts in Provincetown MA.  This year we rented prior to starting our deeded weeks.  The day we checked in we received a phone call from an on premise salesman from “Outfield Marketing”.  We asked how they knew we were at Sandcastle, we didn’t get an answer but were scheduled to a sales meeting to change from deeded ownership to the point system.  A meeting was scheduled with the salesman from Outfield Marketing.  He went thru his sales pitch speaking and making notes on sheets of paper extremely fast to the point it was almost impossible to keep up with him.  This consisted of the following:
> 1.  Exchanging each deeded week and paying $ 1,000. plus recording fees of  $ 195.
> each week  For this we would receive 3,000 Festiva Resorts points for each week..
> This was a one time offer and the payment would increase if we did not act today.
> 2.  To purchase points outright, the minimum purchase is 1,800 points costing $ 6,000.
> The charge for each time share week consisting of 3,000 points, was $ 3,995.
> 3.  In addition he stated that our annual maintenance fees would increase dramatically
> if we chose to stay with our deeded weeks, there was no current budget and the deficit
> of $ 237,000. would soon exceed $ 300,000.
> 4.  The point system with the Festiva Resorts, the maintenance fees would remain stable
> due to their large reserve for maintenance and increases would only be a nominal
> cost of living adjustment.
> 5.  A benefit with the point system is if you give over 30 days notice to the Resort for a
> one week reservation it only costs you 1,900 points versus 3,000 points for less than
> 30 days notice.
> 6.  After our deeded weeks were transferred to New England Vacation Services, they
> would be put into a Trust.  There wasn’t a clear explanation what that meant.
> 7.  Some of his notes we could not decipher.
> 8.   He gave us a few days grace period to sign and pay the contract.  This was a one
> time offer, after the few days the cost of acquiring the points would increase.
> 
> It was alluded to but not stated that after the conversion to 3,000 points per week we would continue to have our usual weeks at Sandcastle Resorts each year without limitation.   We didn’t get to ask our question “could the points required to stay at Sandcastle Resorts ever be increased over the current 3,000 points per week”?
> 
> The sales contract forms consisted of legal size sheets numbered 1 thru 8 (with two copies of page one), pages 9 thru 11 missing, letter size sheets numbered 12 thru 18 and unnumbered “Individual Membership Application”, all of which consist of the following pages:
> Page
> 1.  New England Vacation Services Festiva Adventure Club Membership Application.
> 2.  New England Vacation Services/Festiva Resorts Adventure Club, Purchasing and
> Security Agreement and Truth-in-Lending Disclosures.
> 3 - 4 - 5 & 6  Terms and Conditions consisting of 26 items.
> 7.  New England Vacation Services Promissory Note.
> 8.  Festiva Resorts Adventure Club/NEVS Purchaser Acknowledgements.
> Pages 9 thru 11 missing.
> 12.  Untitled – Contract #.   for credit card payment.
> 13.  New England Vacation Services, LLC, Bank Authorization Agreement For Pre-
> Approved payments (ACH Debits).
> 14.  New England Vacation Services, LLC, Credit Application and Agreement.
> 15.  Festiva Resorts Privacy Disclosure.
> 16.  NEVS/Festiva Resorts Adventure Club, Addendum to Purchaser Acknowledgment.
> 17.  New England Vacation Services, LLC, Policy Regarding Your Financial Privacy.
> 18.  Notice of Cancellation and unnumbered Membership Application.
> Some questions for above forms:
> Page 2      Equity upgrade from??  Term 40 years?  Did not hear of this during meeting.
> Page 8      Membership level.  Non term points? These were not mentioned during meeting.
> Page 5 – Item 15   Renewal rights for additional ten Years?  Didn’t hear about this limitation!
> “    18  No oral or written statements are accepted as part of the contract, only the
> wordage which is contained within above documents is accepted.   So the rep.
> can say or write anything on a sheet of paper to make the sale and if it isn’t
> contained within the above documents then the reps. statements are not valid..
> Page 16     Par. 2   Membership does not include maintenance fees, but the purchase price does
> include the first year’s membership fees for Interval International?  What, first
> I’ve heard of this!  What is the annual membership after the first year?  And
> what if your not interested in ”Interval International”.
> Par. 3   Forms states salesman made no representation about increased maintenance
> fees.  We were told by rep that maintenances fees would increase greatly.
> Par. 5 We did not have the opportunity to ask many questions.
> “   6   Rep. not well informed based on what he communicated to us, and no we were
> not satisfied with his sales pitch.   AND What are the missing pages 9 thru 11?
> 
> That, added to the fast talking salesman and his zooming paper doodling to emphasize his fast talking points.  When my wife attempted to ask him questions, he stated “who is running this meeting?” So for all of this we would get relieved of our deeded weeks and thousands of dollars for what benefit that was never made clear?  What happens to the deeded weeks and who eventually ends up with them?  A complaint letter was filed with MA Attorney General.
> 
> I suggest everyone that has had a bad experience file a written complaint to the MA Atty. General, that volume should ensure that an action will be taken.  A current list of deeded owners and addresses is a must for us to have to ensure that all deeded owners are informed of the meeting date and to have sufficient votes to overcome the New England Vacation Services LLC votes.  To anyone who has made a request for the list of deeded owners and was rejected, that is more than sufficient reason to file a written complaint to the MA Atty. General.



Great info here. Have you been in touch with these folks? http://sandcastleowners.blogspot.com/


----------



## Frank Stevens

Marvan said:


> During November 2008 we received an undated form letter at our home address titled ”Dear Sandcastle Owner”, from New England Vacation Services LLC.  It was sent by Cliff Hagberg Managing General Partner of New England Vacation Management Services LLC.  The letter also states that New England Vacation Services LLC has affiliated Sandcastle Resorts with one of the premier vacation companies in the country, Festiva Resorts, in addition to RCI which Sandcastle has always had, and is in the process of affiliation with Interval International.  We subsequently received a call from a sales person from Outfield Marketing wanting to schedule an appointment at our home to discuss the new changes that were going to be made by the new owner “New England Vacation Services, LLC”.  We requested he send us a written summary, he declined stating it could only be discussed in person.  We declined.
> 
> We are deeded Time Share Owners at Sandcastle Resorts in Provincetown MA.  This year we rented prior to starting our deeded weeks.  The day we checked in we received a phone call from an on premise salesman from “Outfield Marketing”.  We asked how they knew we were at Sandcastle, we didn’t get an answer but were scheduled to a sales meeting to change from deeded ownership to the point system.  A meeting was scheduled with the salesman from Outfield Marketing.  He went thru his sales pitch speaking and making notes on sheets of paper extremely fast to the point it was almost impossible to keep up with him.  This consisted of the following:
> 1.  Exchanging each deeded week and paying $ 1,000. plus recording fees of  $ 195.
> each week  For this we would receive 3,000 Festiva Resorts points for each week..
> This was a one time offer and the payment would increase if we did not act today.
> 2.  To purchase points outright, the minimum purchase is 1,800 points costing $ 6,000.
> The charge for each time share week consisting of 3,000 points, was $ 3,995.
> 3.  In addition he stated that our annual maintenance fees would increase dramatically
> if we chose to stay with our deeded weeks, there was no current budget and the deficit
> of $ 237,000. would soon exceed $ 300,000.
> 4.  The point system with the Festiva Resorts, the maintenance fees would remain stable
> due to their large reserve for maintenance and increases would only be a nominal
> cost of living adjustment.
> 5.  A benefit with the point system is if you give over 30 days notice to the Resort for a
> one week reservation it only costs you 1,900 points versus 3,000 points for less than
> 30 days notice.
> 6.  After our deeded weeks were transferred to New England Vacation Services, they
> would be put into a Trust.  There wasn’t a clear explanation what that meant.
> 7.  Some of his notes we could not decipher.
> 8.   He gave us a few days grace period to sign and pay the contract.  This was a one
> time offer, after the few days the cost of acquiring the points would increase.
> 
> It was alluded to but not stated that after the conversion to 3,000 points per week we would continue to have our usual weeks at Sandcastle Resorts each year without limitation.   We didn’t get to ask our question “could the points required to stay at Sandcastle Resorts ever be increased over the current 3,000 points per week”?
> 
> The sales contract forms consisted of legal size sheets numbered 1 thru 8 (with two copies of page one), pages 9 thru 11 missing, letter size sheets numbered 12 thru 18 and unnumbered “Individual Membership Application”, all of which consist of the following pages:
> Page
> 1.  New England Vacation Services Festiva Adventure Club Membership Application.
> 2.  New England Vacation Services/Festiva Resorts Adventure Club, Purchasing and
> Security Agreement and Truth-in-Lending Disclosures.
> 3 - 4 - 5 & 6  Terms and Conditions consisting of 26 items.
> 7.  New England Vacation Services Promissory Note.
> 8.  Festiva Resorts Adventure Club/NEVS Purchaser Acknowledgements.
> Pages 9 thru 11 missing.
> 12.  Untitled – Contract #.   for credit card payment.
> 13.  New England Vacation Services, LLC, Bank Authorization Agreement For Pre-
> Approved payments (ACH Debits).
> 14.  New England Vacation Services, LLC, Credit Application and Agreement.
> 15.  Festiva Resorts Privacy Disclosure.
> 16.  NEVS/Festiva Resorts Adventure Club, Addendum to Purchaser Acknowledgment.
> 17.  New England Vacation Services, LLC, Policy Regarding Your Financial Privacy.
> 18.  Notice of Cancellation and unnumbered Membership Application.
> Some questions for above forms:
> Page 2      Equity upgrade from??  Term 40 years?  Did not hear of this during meeting.
> Page 8      Membership level.  Non term points? These were not mentioned during meeting.
> Page 5 – Item 15   Renewal rights for additional ten Years?  Didn’t hear about this limitation!
> “    18  No oral or written statements are accepted as part of the contract, only the
> wordage which is contained within above documents is accepted.   So the rep.
> can say or write anything on a sheet of paper to make the sale and if it isn’t
> contained within the above documents then the reps. statements are not valid..
> Page 16     Par. 2   Membership does not include maintenance fees, but the purchase price does
> include the first year’s membership fees for Interval International?  What, first
> I’ve heard of this!  What is the annual membership after the first year?  And
> what if your not interested in ”Interval International”.
> Par. 3   Forms states salesman made no representation about increased maintenance
> fees.  We were told by rep that maintenances fees would increase greatly.
> Par. 5 We did not have the opportunity to ask many questions.
> “   6   Rep. not well informed based on what he communicated to us, and no we were
> not satisfied with his sales pitch.   AND What are the missing pages 9 thru 11?
> 
> That, added to the fast talking salesman and his zooming paper doodling to emphasize his fast talking points.  When my wife attempted to ask him questions, he stated “who is running this meeting?” So for all of this we would get relieved of our deeded weeks and thousands of dollars for what benefit that was never made clear?  What happens to the deeded weeks and who eventually ends up with them?  A complaint letter was filed with MA Attorney General.
> 
> I suggest everyone that has had a bad experience file a written complaint to the MA Atty. General, that volume should ensure that an action will be taken.  A current list of deeded owners and addresses is a must for us to have to ensure that all deeded owners are informed of the meeting date and to have sufficient votes to overcome the New England Vacation Services LLC votes.  To anyone who has made a request for the list of deeded owners and was rejected, that is more than sufficient reason to file a written complaint to the MA Atty. General.


To Marvan,

Great post. Please do visit the blog mentioned by FIG: http://sandcastleowners.blogspot.com/

 I created it to host information and paperwork that can be viewed by owners and used to, hopefully, remove confusion about what is going on there. I have urged people to write the AG if they have a legitimate complaint. Yesterday, thanks in part to info on this TUG site, I found the Mass law governing timeshares. This is a big help.

 As a group, owners do not know much about the laws and their rights. If there is something wrong going on, we will have to work to get it to stop. Many owners have been harassed by salespeople and been told misleading information by them and others. We need to clear this up.

Please, anyone reading this, look at the blog, participate if you want to, and make a comment which does or doesn't have to be posted. I moderate this blog and will not post flames, rants rumors or such. I will also keep communication private if you indicate that. So it is a way we can get connected, which we need to do as owners since the management is withholding the owners list which we have a right to.


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## NEVMSLLC

Hi Frank

Would you have any objections if I were to participate in your blog?  If you'd rather I didn't, I'll respect that, but owners have an unusual opportunity here to communicate directly with me and get straight answers.  I also offer my email address for owners who wish to communicate with me privately.

I've never understood why owners seem to be happy to email and complain amongst themselves when I'm right here to answer their questions.

Cliff Hagberg


----------



## ecwinch

NEVMSLLC said:


> Hi Frank
> 
> Would you have any objections if I were to participate in your blog?  If you'd rather I didn't, I'll respect that, but owners have an unusual opportunity here to communicate directly with me and get straight answers.  I also offer my email address for owners who wish to communicate with me privately.
> 
> I've never understood why owners seem to be happy to email and complain amongst themselves when I'm right here to answer their questions.
> 
> Cliff Hagberg



Cliff,

IMO it is because you pick and choose what you want to communicate about. You have labelled a huge area (HOA governance) as off-limits as it relates to legal issues.

If you really want to foster communication then have independent outside counsel provide a legal opinion on the behalf of the HOA on the issues that are in question. Put those issues to rest and then I think you will have a more effective and less adverse communication process.

Thanks


----------



## NEVMSLLC

Sorry Eric, but I don't recall asking for your opinion.  Perhaps I might if you were an owner.  I've said from the beginning that I'm not a lawyer and that I can't offer legal opinions.  Even if I could, I wouldn't post them on a public bulletin board!!  Surely, even you can understand that.  Perhaps you can't though since I've seen you offer your "legal" opinion here on many occasions. 

Other than legal issues, I'm wide open.


----------



## Sou13

NEVMSLLC said:


> Sorry Eric, but I don't recall asking for your opinion.  Perhaps I might if you were an owner.  I've said from the beginning that I'm not a lawyer and that I can't offer legal opinions.  Even if I could, I wouldn't post them on a public bulletin board!!  Surely, even you can understand that.  Perhaps you can't though since I've seen you offer your "legal" opinion here on many occasions.
> 
> Other than legal issues, I'm wide open.


OK so here's one for you:

Why did you dissolve Hagberg Realty and Hagberg Home Improvement at the same time that you took out a $2.5 *million* mortgage on developers' rights to resorts valued at only $1.2 million by the previous developers?

Oh and BTW non-Sandcastle owners have as much right to post here as you do FYI.


----------



## NEVMSLLC

I disolved Hagberg Realty because I had stopped selling real estate.  No mystery there.  I disolved the home improvement company because I never got started.  I had some friends that wanted to do improvements so I formed a company to work with them and they then decided to do something else.  Big deal and what does either of those have to do with anything?

Of course non owners can post here, I just don't have to listen to them.  Sometimes I do, sometimes I don't depending on how entertaining they're being.


----------



## ChrisH

*I have a question Cliff*



NEVMSLLC said:


> Hi Frank
> 
> Would you have any objections if I were to participate in your blog?  If you'd rather I didn't, I'll respect that, but owners have an unusual opportunity here to communicate directly with me and get straight answers.  I also offer my email address for owners who wish to communicate with me privately.
> 
> I've never understood why owners seem to be happy to email and complain amongst themselves when I'm right here to answer their questions.
> 
> Cliff Hagberg



I just left the Sandcastle today.  While I was out on the balcony I heard Greg Hughes telling a person [I assume was a current owner but could have been someone (?Sandcastle guest)  he was just trying to get into Festiva Points] that "The timeshare industry is completely converting to 'points ownership' and pretty soon there 'will be no more weeks exchange system'.If you don't convert to points, your week is going to be useless. "  

If you have fired the Outfield Reps that were not telling the truth to consumers and retrained the other Outfield Reps, why is he still lying about this.  I contacted RCI corporate and they said this is NOT TRUE, that they have NO INTENTION OF DROPPING WEEKS EXCHANGES. They are continuing to ADD BOTH POINT AND WEEKS RESORTS.  

I went downstairs and looked to make sure who this was even though I knew the voice and sure enough it was Greg Hughes talking to a woman in the back of the office area right by the outdoor pool.  

When is this misleading falsehood going to STOP?  If you retrained REPS and these lies are continuing, why do you retain this employee? 

ChrisH


----------



## ecwinch

ChrisH said:


> I just left the Sandcastle today.  While I was out on the balcony I heard Greg Hughes telling a person [I assume was a current owner but could have been someone (?Sandcastle guest)  he was just trying to get into Festiva Points] that "The timeshare industry is completely converting to 'points ownership' and pretty soon there 'will be no more weeks exchange system'.If you don't convert to points, your week is going to be useless. "
> 
> If you have fired the Outfield Reps that were not telling the truth to consumers and retrained the other Outfield Reps, why is he still lying about this.  I contacted RCI corporate and they said this is NOT TRUE, that they have NO INTENTION OF DROPPING WEEKS EXCHANGES. They are continuing to ADD BOTH POINT AND WEEKS RESORTS.
> 
> I went downstairs and looked to make sure who this was even though I knew the voice and sure enough it was Greg Hughes talking to a woman in the back of the office area right by the outdoor pool.
> 
> When is this misleading falsehood going to STOP?  If you retrained REPS and these lies are continuing, why do you retain this employee?
> 
> ChrisH



Chris,

You may need to identify yourself in a PM to Cliff in order to have him recognize your complaint against Outfield. In another post he indicated that he did not recognize the owners that have made complaints again Outfield here on Tug.


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## ecwinch

NEVMSLLC said:


> Sorry Eric, but I don't recall asking for your opinion.  Perhaps I might if you were an owner.  I've said from the beginning that I'm not a lawyer and that I can't offer legal opinions.  Even if I could, I wouldn't post them on a public bulletin board!!  Surely, even you can understand that.  Perhaps you can't though since I've seen you offer your "legal" opinion here on many occasions.
> 
> Other than legal issues, I'm wide open.



Again, I will emphasize that this is a public forum. You will receive opinions from members other than those that you directly post to, or members of your target audience. 

If you want a forum with only owners, then take it to a private forum.

And I sincerely doubt that you would respond any differently if I were an owner. For instance if I was a prospective owner doing due diligence on my purchase, would you be any more responsive to my queries?


----------



## tombo

ChrisH said:


> I just left the Sandcastle today.  While I was out on the balcony I heard Greg Hughes telling a person [I assume was a current owner but could have been someone (?Sandcastle guest)  he was just trying to get into Festiva Points] that "The timeshare industry is completely converting to 'points ownership' and pretty soon there 'will be no more weeks exchange system'.If you don't convert to points, your week is going to be useless. "
> 
> If you have fired the Outfield Reps that were not telling the truth to consumers and retrained the other Outfield Reps, why is he still lying about this.  I contacted RCI corporate and they said this is NOT TRUE, that they have NO INTENTION OF DROPPING WEEKS EXCHANGES. They are continuing to ADD BOTH POINT AND WEEKS RESORTS.
> 
> I went downstairs and looked to make sure who this was even though I knew the voice and sure enough it was Greg Hughes talking to a woman in the back of the office area right by the outdoor pool.
> 
> When is this misleading falsehood going to STOP?  If you retrained REPS and these lies are continuing, why do you retain this employee?
> 
> ChrisH



It happened yesterday, it will happen again today, and it will happen again tomorrow. Hold Cliff's feet to the fire but all you will get is lip service.

I am sure that Cliff will tell you that he is shocked and that he will investigate. If Greg Hughes has a poor sales track record he might be terminated (something that would have happened anyway). If he is converting a lot of owners at $3000 a pop he will be told to talk indoors and watch what he says with a wink and a grin. You will be told that he has been reprimanded. Nothing will change.

Honestly if you owned a business and you were constantly receiving complaints about unethical and possibly ilegal sales tactics, would you continue to employ them? Cliff does and so does Festiva. That should tell you all you need to know about their business ethics. The reason they keep Outfield is because they don't care what they do as long as they sell points. If Outfield is sued both NEVS and Festiva will claim ignorance and no responsibility since Outfield is a third party sales force. This group has done this since way before they came to prey upon Southscape and Sandcastle and will continue to until an AG puts a big fine on them. When Festiva settled with the Missouri Attorney General for false and misleading sales tactics their defense was that it was a third party sales force, not Festiva itself. Let's see, they are using Outfield a third party sales force again, there are a lot of complaints about false and misleading sales tactics. Can we see a trend here?

This employee like all others was trained by the same guys that have been doing the same thing since Outfield started selling Festiva points. It works for them and they will not change unless it stops working or unless they get sued and lose a lot f money.

This is a complaint from what they were doing in 2007. Sound familiar?
http://www.ripoffreport.com/reports/0/356/RipOff0356189.htm

Steve Lamantia is one of the owners of Outfield. Here is a discussion about him and his tactics from Feb 2008. If he did it himself back then and employees are still doing it now, it is easy to surmise that the talk of stopping such actions by salesmen is just talk. This is their sales plan implemented from top to bottom. If Cliff fired Outfield then perhaps the sales tactics might change, but I doubt it.
http://www.tripadvisor.com/ShowTopi...tiva_Outfield_Marketing-Branson_Missouri.html

If Greg Hughes ever does get fired it will probably be for lack of sales, not because he shows a lack of ethics. Sales is all they care about.


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## Sou13

*An odd coincidence*

Quote:
Originally Posted by *NEVMSLLC*
_I disolved Hagberg Realty because I had stopped selling real estate. No mystery there. I disolved the home improvement company because I never got started. I had some friends that wanted to do improvements so I formed a company to work with them and they then decided to do something else. Big deal and what does either of those have to do with anything?
_​I find it odd that you stopped selling real estate yet have posted to these discussions that you have been selling timeshares.  Is there a difference?  Under what corporation name have you been selling timeshares?


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## NEVMSLLC

Frankly, Sou13, that's none of your business.  I've already told you things I didn't have to and have no relevance and that stops now.  If you have a question for me, ask it on the Southcape Board where you're an actual owner. From now on, I'll ignore you here.


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## Carolinian

Sou13 said:


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *NEVMSLLC*
> _I disolved Hagberg Realty because I had stopped selling real estate. No mystery there. I disolved the home improvement company because I never got started. I had some friends that wanted to do improvements so I formed a company to work with them and they then decided to do something else. Big deal and what does either of those have to do with anything?
> _​I find it odd that you stopped selling real estate yet have posted to these discussions that you have been selling timeshares.  Is there a difference?  Under what corporation name have you been selling timeshares?



Looks like you caught him in a fib and now he is in a snit!

Timeshare IS real estate, of course.


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## ecwinch

NEVMSLLC said:


> Frankly, Sou13, that's none of your business.  I've already told you things I didn't have to and have no relevance and that stops now.  If you have a question for me, ask it on the Southcape Board where you're an actual owner. From now on, I'll ignore you here.



How is the background of a Trustee at a resort, not the business of an owner at said resort?

And your pledge is really meaningless. You ignore posts from both owners and non-owners unless it suits your purposes.


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## NEVMSLLC

First of all, I did answer her questions about those two previous businesses.  I didn't think more information was relevant and there is a difference between real estate and timeshare.  Don't believe me since none of you non-owners do anyway, just look at the state licensing laws and decide for yourself.  It's no more relevant than if people were to ask you about your business.  Let's say you were in the insurance business for example.  What relevance does that have?

By the way, Eric, I have and will continue to answer question from legitimate owners just as I did earlier today on the Southcape board.  Perhaps if you weren't so busy trying to rally the owners at Pollard Brook, you'd have time to keep up with the posts here so you can inject your opinions on another board where you don't own.


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## Fig

NEVMSLLC said:


> By the way, Eric, I have and will continue to answer question from legitimate owners just as I did earlier today on the Southcape board.



Chris is an owner...gee, I must have missed this answer. Anyone want to clue me in as to what Cliff's answer was? Afterall, he says he will continue to answer questions from owners, so it must be my computer's fault that I am not seeing an answer to what looks like a legitimate question...

http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showpost.php?p=754366&postcount=80


----------



## ChrisH

*Must have the same computer glitch*



Fig said:


> Chris is an owner...gee, I must have missed this answer. Anyone want to clue me in as to what Cliff's answer was? Afterall, he says he will continue to answer questions from owners, so it must be my computer's fault that I am not seeing an answer to what looks like a legitimate question...
> 
> http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showpost.php?p=754366&postcount=80



I don't see an answer either, maybe we have the SAME computer virus


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## dneuser

NEVMSLLC said:


> I have and will continue to answer question from legitimate owners just as I did earlier today on the Southcape board.



Cliff:  I am an owner - paid in full on all my dues and assessments.  I asked these questions below in reference to your statements (also below) on the other Sandcastle thread on this board and you ignored them.  You made slight reference to them by saying "don't ask me" when referencing the tipping point of your ownership value when no one else asked that but you never answered my questions directly.  I guess I wasn't annoying or combative enough.  I'd better brush up on my boxing skills.

If we can't ask you questions such as those below, what questions ARE you willing to answer?  

So now I have new questions.   1)  If you are no longer selling real estate - which I assume means you are no longer part of IVS Realty, how do you plan to sell unsold Sandcastle weeks?  Festiva is taking deeded weeks from owners for a hefty price it would seem and not offering anything but a promise in return for real property.  As a former realtor you know that areal property has certain additional duty-of-care responsibilities associated with it that those owners just signed off on.  Festive/Outfield do not appear to be offering weeks for sale.  So how will you get rid of the weeks you are now left with so that you can recoup your investment in Sandcastle and get out from under the burden of having to deal with all of us?  2)  Do you also loose all you "declarent rights" when you have sold the majority of your weeks (you know - that mysterious tipping point that shall not be spoken of) at that time and, if not, what other rights remain under your control?

Heck - if we knew what that tipping point was, some of us might be willing to help you out a bit :rofl: 

Regards,
Diane

Your Quote: 3. Along with the purchase of the inventory went a bundle of rights referred to as Declarant rights. This gives the developer control of the property until sold out. For twenty years, the former developer never tried to sell out and thus retained control of the resort. NEVS essentially purchased the former developer's position and is in the process of selling the inventory so that eventually, control will be in the hands of the owners where it should have been 20 years ago. End Quote

My Question:  I'm curious about the above statement. We purchased weeks directly from Jewel at the resort after staying there on an exchange a few years ago. Available inventory was clearly posted on the bulletin board with prices. Earlier we had been working with your office at IVS Realty and had gotten close to making an offer on 2 weeks but got a better deal from Jewel. The developer even accepted an offer below the asking price (which Jewel said was not likely to happen). When we contacted your office to say we were going with the resort detal the person in your office (whose name escapes me now) said it wasn't a bad deal and we should probably take it. We appreciated his honesty. By the way - he was a very nice man and very pleasant to work with - I wish I could remember his name.

My point is, this doesn't sound like Sandcastle developer or office agent was trying to avoid selling weeks. The developer may have had a tipping point beyond which they wouldn't sell so as to retain control. So it begs the question - what's your tipping point. What's the "magic number" beyond which you will no longer retain control - if that's not too personal a question? How many weeks do you need to sell to give a deeded owner a real seat on the board with a real vote? Since it's not too likely that you'll sell too many of those out-of-season weeks any time soon, what, if anything, do the by laws say about adding additional seats to the board in an advisory capacity? 

End Quote


----------



## NEVMSLLC

I apologize for seeming to ignore your previous questions.  Sometimes it gets so busy on here dealing with non owners, I can't remember who I answered and who I didn't.  Because of that, I'm just not going to respond to non owners anymore.

I no longer sell real estate under the name Hagberg Realty.  I do still own IVS Realty.  IVS is still very active as the oldest and largest timeshare resale company in New England.  Because of the large number of weeks to be sold at Sancastle, the resort needs a more active program than my company can provide.  Festiva is not "taking" weeks.  Should an owner decide to become a member of Festiva, they deed their week to Festiva and become a member of Festiva's Adventure Club.  It is completely optional.

Outfield is absolutely offering weeks for sale.  I don't know where this rumor got started but it's simply not true.  Anyone wishing to buy a week at the Sandcastle, let me know and we'll be delighted to sell you one.  Two weeks were just sold at the resort today!  When the weeks are sold, NEVS won't own anything at the resort any longer.  NEVS did not buy the weeks to hang on to them like the former trustees, I can promise you that.

I can't tell you when the "tipping point" comes for several reasons.  There are two different associations at Sandcastle with two separate set of condo docs and all the documents were written prior to the enactment of MGL Chapter 183B.  All I can tell you is that four different law firms agreed that control does not yet pass from the developer.  An attorney who works for the associations is currently reviewing all of the documents in order to make necessary amendments, etc.  Having met with him just last week, I can tell you that he's not certain of where that point is either, at least at the moment.  It is being reviewed.

By the way, I can promise you that you're annoying enough already! 

For those of you who didn't get that, it's a joke . . . I'll admit to a strange sense of humor.

I first began working for the former developers and trustees in 1992 as IVS Realty.  I was hired to sell the inventory that they owned.  I was successful enough that I was told not to sell their inventory any longer as they weren't ready to give up control.  This was in 1992!!

Many of the weeks Jewel sold were not developer weeks but owner resales and weeks taken back in the name of the association which was controlled by the developer.  In 1992, the developer had about 400 weeks.  Last fall I purchase about 360 of them that were left.  Not a great track record in selling their interests.  If the economy doesn't blow up completely, NEVS expects to sell that inventory in the next 2 - 3 years.

FYI, the only man working for IVS Realty the past few years has been me.  So if you had a good experience with a man at IVS, I thank you!

As far as owners on the board, no elections are called for at this time.  Instead, I'm creating an owner advisory board that will be made up of individual owners.  This board will review all information before it is presented to the trustees and will have direct input for recommendations to the trustees.  It will also mean that, when we are ready for elections, we'll have a group of committed, qualified owners to stand for election.  Any owners interested in serving on this board, please let me know as appointments will be made next month.

I'm afraid I can't answer the rest of your questions until the legal process has been completed.  The best I can do at this time is to say that I do intend to keep owners informed through newsletters and the new website.  You gave the former trustees over twenty years with no complaints and look where we ended up.  Can you at least give me two??

Cliff

P. S. If everyone on here buys a week, you'll go a long way towards helping NEVS in their mission to sell the inventory!!


----------



## Sou13

*Oh, excuse me yet again!*

_Quote:
Originally Posted by *NEVMSLLC* 
Sorry Eric, but I don't recall asking for your opinion.  Perhaps I might if you were an owner.  I've said from the beginning that I'm not a lawyer and that I can't offer legal opinions.  Even if I could, I wouldn't post them on a public bulletin board!!  Surely, even you can understand that.  Perhaps you can't though since I've seen you offer your "legal" opinion here on many occasions. 

Other than legal issues, I'm wide open

Quote:
Originally Posted by *Sou13*
I find it odd that you stopped selling real estate yet have posted to these discussions that you have been selling timeshares. Is there a difference? Under what corporation name have you been selling timeshares?

Quote:
Originally Posted by *NEVMSLLC*
Frankly, Sou13, that's none of your business. I've already told you things I didn't have to and have no relevance and that stops now. If you have a question for me, ask it on the Southcape Board where you're an actual owner. From now on, I'll ignore you here._​Well, excuse me yet again for asking questions on the wrong discussion.  You did, however, challenge Eric who is a non-owner and I took you up on the challenge.  I have a vested interest in Sandcastle since I suspect that the Special Assessment being collected from Southcape owners is going toward upgrades at Sandcastle.  That's why I want to go over the books before putting out the rest of the $400 Special Assessment you levied on Southcape owners.

I have been poring over the records in the Barnstable County Registry of Deeds and can find no record of Southcape weeks being sold.  Are they being sold under a different name?


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## Sou13

*Here's the only entry to date*

INTERNATIONAL VACATION SALES INC (Gtor)
DALY, JOHN S (&W) UNIT 8-1 TIME 4
Time Sharing Deed Mashpee
09-16-1994 9365-317


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## NEVMSLLC

Sou13 said:


> INTERNATIONAL VACATION SALES INC (Gtor)
> DALY, JOHN S (&W) UNIT 8-1 TIME 4
> Time Sharing Deed Mashpee
> 09-16-1994 9365-317



Yup, you're right on top of things, Sou.  That's a deed to Sea Mist Resort that my company sold in 1994 . . .


----------



## Sou13

*As I noted above*

_Quote:
Originally Posted by *Sou13* 
INTERNATIONAL VACATION SALES INC (Gtor)
DALY, JOHN S (&W) UNIT 8-1 TIME 4
Time Sharing Deed Mashpee
09-16-1994 9365-317

Quote:
Originally Posted by *NEVMSLLC*
Yup, you're right on top of things, Sou. That's a deed to Sea Mist Resort that my company sold in 1994 . . ._​
As I noted above, that is the one and only deed entry for IVS Realty in Mashpee.  So if you have been selling timeshares, under what corporation name are the deeds being recorded?


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## NEVMSLLC

come on, Sou.  IVS Realty is the agent and isn't listed on a deed!!!


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## Sou13

Then why was it listed on that one?


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## Sou13

*The last matching name is displayed*

NEW ENGLAND VACATION SERVICES LLC (Gtee)
BARTH (AS ID TR BY AY) FALMOUTH RD
Assignment Mashpee
09-04-2008 23138-104

NEW ENGLAND VACATION SERVICES LLC (Gtee)
BARTH (AS ID AS TR &O) SEE INSTRUMENT
Deed Mashpee
09-04-2008 23138-109

NEW ENGLAND VACATION SERVICES LLC (Gtor)
COLEBROOK FINANCIAL CO SEE INSTRUMENT
Mortgage Mashpee
09-04-2008 23138-185 

NEW ENGLAND VACATION SERVICES LLC (Gtee)
FOLEY, CARLA F UNIT 14 TIME 44
Time Sharing Deed Mashpee
04-21-2009 23628-197 

NEW ENGLAND VACATION SERVICES LLC (Gtee)
PAUL, PAMELA UNIT 14 TIME 9
Time Sharing Deed Mashpee
04-21-2009 23628-199 

NEW ENGLAND VACATION SERVICES LLC (Gtee)
SHERIDAN, PHILLIP T UNIT 22 TIME 12 13
Time Sharing Deed Mashpee
04-21-2009 23628-201 

NEW ENGLAND VACATION SERVICES LLC (Gtee)
KELL, MICHAEL J (&O) UNIT 25 TIME 38
Time Sharing Deed Mashpee
04-21-2009 23628-204     
*The last matching name is displayed*


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## Fig

NEVMSLLC said:


> I didn't think more information was relevant and there is a difference between real estate and timeshare.  Don't believe me since none of you non-owners do anyway.



From Cliff's own website...IVS Realty

Q. What do closing costs cover and what are they?
A. *Just as in every real estate transaction, there are closing costs in selling a timeshare as well.* These costs pay for everything from creating the documents, doing the title work, recording the deed, etc. Our closings costs are among the lowest in the industry at $395. If we use an outside title company, closing costs can be as high as $495. Closing costs are typically paid by the buyer.

http://www.ivsrealty.com/Faqs.htm

Now who do we believe...Cliff #1 who says timeshare is not real estate or Cliff #2 who is clearly calling a timeshare sale a "real estate transaction?" Is Cliff #2 calling Cliff #1 a liar or it is the other way around? 

Just a thought....meybee Outfield Marketing is pumping points because that's *all* they can pump....if a timeshare sale is a real estate transaction as Cliff #2's website claims, these Outfield Point pumpers that they are hiring and firing by the day are too costly to train in the nuanced art of real estate sales. Look thru all the posts as pertains to Outfield's attemps at "sales"....points, points, and more points...not a mention of inventory...they simply were not trained to sell inventory.


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## ecwinch

NEVMSLLC said:


> First of all, I did answer her questions about those two previous businesses.  I didn't think more information was relevant and there is a difference between real estate and timeshare.  Don't believe me since none of you non-owners do anyway, just look at the state licensing laws and decide for yourself.  It's no more relevant than if people were to ask you about your business.  Let's say you were in the insurance business for example.  What relevance does that have?
> 
> By the way, Eric, I have and will continue to answer question from legitimate owners just as I did earlier today on the Southcape board.  Perhaps if you weren't so busy trying to rally the owners at Pollard Brook, you'd have time to keep up with the posts here so you can inject your opinions on another board where you don't own.



It really bothers you when someone promotes owner advocacy issues doesn't it? 

Like all developers, you would prefer that owners be seen and not heard. 

Where is the friendly civil relationship we used to have?

And you still do not seem to understand what TUG is about. Members are not limited to only posting to threads where they are owners. Though I understand that you would like it that way. Perhaps you should recommend to your ARDA-cronies that they should sponsor a forum like that.


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## mweinberg

*Questions for Cliff*



NEVMSLLC said:


> I apologize for seeming to ignore your previous questions.  Sometimes it gets so busy on here dealing with non owners, I can't remember who I answered and who I didn't.  Because of that, I'm just not going to respond to non owners anymore.
> 
> I no longer sell real estate under the name Hagberg Realty.  I do still own IVS Realty.  IVS is still very active as the oldest and largest timeshare resale company in New England.  Because of the large number of weeks to be sold at Sancastle, the resort needs a more active program than my company can provide.  Festiva is not "taking" weeks.  Should an owner decide to become a member of Festiva, they deed their week to Festiva and become a member of Festiva's Adventure Club.  It is completely optional.
> 
> Outfield is absolutely offering weeks for sale.  I don't know where this rumor got started but it's simply not true.  Anyone wishing to buy a week at the Sandcastle, let me know and we'll be delighted to sell you one.  Two weeks were just sold at the resort today!  When the weeks are sold, NEVS won't own anything at the resort any longer.  NEVS did not buy the weeks to hang on to them like the former trustees, I can promise you that.
> 
> I can't tell you when the "tipping point" comes for several reasons.  There are two different associations at Sandcastle with two separate set of condo docs and all the documents were written prior to the enactment of MGL Chapter 183B.  All I can tell you is that four different law firms agreed that control does not yet pass from the developer.  An attorney who works for the associations is currently reviewing all of the documents in order to make necessary amendments, etc.  Having met with him just last week, I can tell you that he's not certain of where that point is either, at least at the moment.  It is being reviewed.
> 
> By the way, I can promise you that you're annoying enough already!
> 
> For those of you who didn't get that, it's a joke . . . I'll admit to a strange sense of humor.
> 
> I first began working for the former developers and trustees in 1992 as IVS Realty.  I was hired to sell the inventory that they owned.  I was successful enough that I was told not to sell their inventory any longer as they weren't ready to give up control.  This was in 1992!!
> 
> Many of the weeks Jewel sold were not developer weeks but owner resales and weeks taken back in the name of the association which was controlled by the developer.  In 1992, the developer had about 400 weeks.  Last fall I purchase about 360 of them that were left.  Not a great track record in selling their interests.  If the economy doesn't blow up completely, NEVS expects to sell that inventory in the next 2 - 3 years.
> 
> FYI, the only man working for IVS Realty the past few years has been me.  So if you had a good experience with a man at IVS, I thank you!
> 
> As far as owners on the board, no elections are called for at this time.  Instead, I'm creating an owner advisory board that will be made up of individual owners.  This board will review all information before it is presented to the trustees and will have direct input for recommendations to the trustees.  It will also mean that, when we are ready for elections, we'll have a group of committed, qualified owners to stand for election.  Any owners interested in serving on this board, please let me know as appointments will be made next month.
> 
> I'm afraid I can't answer the rest of your questions until the legal process has been completed.  The best I can do at this time is to say that I do intend to keep owners informed through newsletters and the new website.  You gave the former trustees over twenty years with no complaints and look where we ended up.  Can you at least give me two??
> 
> Cliff
> 
> P. S. If everyone on here buys a week, you'll go a long way towards helping NEVS in their mission to sell the inventory!!



Hi Cliff,

There are two big sticking points that really confuse me, and they confuse many of the other Sandcastle owners that I've spoken with and that I've seen posting on here.  One has to do with Outfield's dual loyalty to Festiva and NEVS, and the other has to do with the unsold inventory held by NEVS.  Perhaps you can clear up the confusion.

1. How can Outfield Marketing possibly be effective at selling deeded weeks?  Outfield tells people that they are hired by Festiva to market Festiva's Adventure Club.  Trying to market a points system and trying to sell deeded timeshare weeks seem to be mutually exclusive.  Outfield is telling people that week-based systems are disappearing, that deeded owners are being left with a disproportionate share of expenses, and that "the best thing that could happen to owners would be for a hurricane to flatten this place."  None of these seems like a particularly good sales pitch for selling deeded weeks.

2. What percentage of the NEVS inventory consists of unsell-able weeks?  My understanding is that NEVS owns all the units at the Sandcastle for all the weeks the resort is closed.  Doesn't that mean that NEVS will always own something close to 25% of the inventory?

I'm not sure you were serious in your posting about people buying more weeks.  As I already told you, I had been seriously considering another week, but such a purchase would be foolish when I have absolutely no idea what is coming in terms of assessments and fees.

And I'd be happy to serve on your advisory committee, as long as the advice is being heeded.

Michael


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## Carolinian

mweinberg said:


> Hi Cliff,
> 
> There are two big sticking points that really confuse me, and they confuse many of the other Sandcastle owners that I've spoken with and that I've seen posting on here.  One has to do with Outfield's dual loyalty to Festiva and NEVS, and the other has to do with the unsold inventory held by NEVS.  Perhaps you can clear up the confusion.
> 
> 1. How can Outfield Marketing possibly be effective at selling deeded weeks?  Outfield tells people that they are hired by Festiva to market Festiva's Adventure Club.  Trying to market a points system and trying to sell deeded timeshare weeks seem to be mutually exclusive.  Outfield is telling people that week-based systems are disappearing, that deeded owners are being left with a disproportionate share of expenses, and that "the best thing that could happen to owners would be for a hurricane to flatten this place."  None of these seems like a particularly good sales pitch for selling deeded weeks.
> 
> 2. What percentage of the NEVS inventory consists of unsell-able weeks?  My understanding is that NEVS owns all the units at the Sandcastle for all the weeks the resort is closed.  Doesn't that mean that NEVS will always own something close to 25% of the inventory?
> 
> I'm not sure you were serious in your posting about people buying more weeks.  As I already told you, I had been seriously considering another week, but such a purchase would be foolish when I have absolutely no idea what is coming in terms of assessments and fees.
> 
> And I'd be happy to serve on your advisory committee, as long as the advice is being heeded.
> 
> Michael



Weeks when a resort is closed are normally maintenance weeks which 1) cannot legally be sold, and 2) carry no vote in the HOA.  If the developer is asserting these weeks carry a vote, you need to get legal assistance to see that they are not voted in the HOA.

Look up the deed where NEVS acquired these weeks.  It will list specifically what weeks they are.  Then look to see how many are maintenance weeks.  Of the sellable weeks, look to see what seasons they are in.

If he is just sitting on these weeks, the key question is whether he is paying m/f's on them or whether he is a deadbeat developer.  Several resorts on the Outer Banks sued or threatened to sue the developer over not paying m/f's on its weeks, and the HOA ended up owning the weeks so they could sell them off.  In one case, they also pried a six figure sum in cash out of the developer.  But, of course you will need to overthrow the developer dictatorship and establish a proper homeowner run HOA to do this.


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## Fig

*Of interest to this board*

Just beware of new guests who seem to be very supportive of current management....thought I'd pass this along.
http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showpost.php?p=757527&postcount=787


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## Marvan

Frank Stevens said:


> To Marvan,
> 
> Great post. Please do visit the blog mentioned by FIG: http://sandcastleowners.blogspot.com/
> 
> I created it to host information and paperwork that can be viewed by owners and used to, hopefully, remove confusion about what is going on there. I have urged people to write the AG if they have a legitimate complaint. Yesterday, thanks in part to info on this TUG site, I found the Mass law governing timeshares. This is a big help.
> 
> As a group, owners do not know much about the laws and their rights. If there is something wrong going on, we will have to work to get it to stop. Many owners have been harassed by salespeople and been told misleading information by them and others. We need to clear this up.
> 
> Please, anyone reading this, look at the blog, participate if you want to, and make a comment which does or doesn't have to be posted. I moderate this blog and will not post flames, rants rumors or such. I will also keep communication private if you indicate that. So it is a way we can get connected, which we need to do as owners since the management is withholding the owners list which we have a right to.


Hi Frank,
Sorry for long delay to your response.  Your 20 page Blog is excellent.  I'm in the process of getting a referral for a time-share attorney from MA.  I believe any of our communication with the stone is worthless.  When I have the referral, I would like to pass the attorney on to you, would that be OK.  We can expand our group of timeshare owners and have an attorney represent us in court.  Is there a way we can communicate directly without going thru this board?  Looking forward to hearing from you. 
Thanks, Marvan


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## e.bram

Ich bein ain Sandcastler and Southcaper(even if I don't own there). All TS owners(myself included) should contribute to a legal fund. We are all vulnerable to the problems facing the above owners unless TS grabs can be stopped in court.


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## Marvan

e.bram said:


> Ich bein ain Sandcastler and Southcaper(even if I don't own there). All TS owners(myself included) should contribute to a legal fund. We are all vulnerable to the problems facing the above owners unless TS grabs can be stopped in court.


That sounds like an excellent idea.  I'm open to suggestions for organization.


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## Frank Stevens

*contact me*



Marvan said:


> Hi Frank,
> Sorry for long delay to your response.  Your 20 page Blog is excellent.  I'm in the process of getting a referral for a time-share attorney from MA.  I believe any of our communication with the stone is worthless.  When I have the referral, I would like to pass the attorney on to you, would that be OK.  We can expand our group of timeshare owners and have an attorney represent us in court.  Is there a way we can communicate directly without going thru this board?  Looking forward to hearing from you.
> Thanks, Marvan



Hi Marvan,

I'm happy to do what I can to help as many owners as possible get together. Go to the blog (http://sandcastleowners.blogspot.com/) and leave me a comment. All comments are seen by me only first. I chose whether or not to post them, so it can be a private message to me. Give me your email in that comment and that connects us. I will not post anyone's email or name unless I am asked to by that person.

To leave a comment you will create an identity there just as you do here. Let me know it is you.

Frank


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## Marvan

Frank Stevens said:


> Hi Marvan,
> 
> I'm happy to do what I can to help as many owners as possible get together. Go to the blog (http://sandcastleowners.blogspot.com/) and leave me a comment. All comments are seen by me only first. I chose whether or not to post them, so it can be a private message to me. Give me your email in that comment and that connects us. I will not post anyone's email or name unless I am asked to by that person.
> 
> To leave a comment you will create an identity there just as you do here. Let me know it is you.
> 
> Frank


Hi Frank,
What profile do I choose to get message to you?
Ray


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## Frank Stevens

*contact me, blog sign in*



Marvan said:


> Hi Frank,
> What profile do I choose to get message to you?
> Ray



Marvan, I'm not sure of your question. Try this: go to the blog: http://sandcastleowners.blogspot.com/.  At the top right area click on "sign in". Follow the prompts and then leave a comment. Looks like you can email me through the TUG site here as well. It does not show you my email address but I assume the site will forward the message to me (haven't done this myself yet). Click on my name at the left of the posting here and choose the email option.
Frank


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## NEVMSLLC

I'm no longer answering questions on TUG. Every time I do, I'm vilified and flamed. I get called a "thief", a "liar", a "crook", etc. I'm told that people won't believe me no matter what I say, even if it's the truth. I've even been accused of committing crimes by people who don't know what they're talking about, do not have any facts to back up their accusations and don't realized the implications of their statements. I've been accused of pretending to be other people when I'm not and there's no way I can prove I'm not someone any more than someone can prove they're not a child molester. I don't know how to prove a negative. I've been personally attacked and libeled. I've had private communications from me published on TUG. I've seen confidential resort information published on TUG.

There is no point in my answering questions when I'm told I won't be believed no matter what I say. I will always respond to owners and answer their questions. As I've said, I do expect that confidential communications remain confidential. I don't think that's too much to ask.

What we have here is not reasonable discourse between people who may have opposing viewpoints. What we have here is diatribe and vitriol of the basest sort and I choose not to participate in it any longer.

Any Sandcastle owner that has questions can reach me at nevmsllc@gmail.com

Cliff


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## Marvan

Frank Stevens said:


> Marvan, I'm not sure of your question. Try this: go to the blog: http://sandcastleowners.blogspot.com/.  At the top right area click on "sign in". Follow the prompts and then leave a comment. Looks like you can email me through the TUG site here as well. It does not show you my email address but I assume the site will forward the message to me (haven't done this myself yet). Click on my name at the left of the posting here and choose the email option.
> Frank


Hi Frank, just sent you email.  Hope you got it.


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## Classylassy523

*Sandcastle Owners Google Group*

*Specifically for Sandcastle owners and former owners*

There is a group of owners and former owners keeping in contact and communicating among themselves ... the intent is to develop and carry out plans and programs to right the wrong that is going on at our resort.

If you would like to join this list please contact Beryl Soparkar and provide your name, address, phone number, email address, unit(s) and week(s) owned.  

Beryl's email address is:  BSopar@aol.com

Thank you


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## Classylassy523

*Attention - Sandcastle Owners Who Are Victims Of Outfield Marketing*

Tom Mitchell, a Sandcastle owner, has an appointment on Wednesday, September 16, with the Mayor's Office of Consumer Protection which is the Local Consumer Protection Office of the Massachusetts Attorney General's Office in Springfield.  His intent is to carry information that will be useful in proving the acts of deceptive marketing carried out by the Outfield Marketing sales people.

If you turned over your deed(s) because you believed what you were told and later found it to be false, or because you were pressured or felt threatened, and now want your deeds back, contact Tom with your story.  He wants as many cases as he can gather to demonstrate to the advocate that there has been deception and wrong doing.  

The dealings with Outfield have to have taken place within the boundaries of Massachusetts but not limited to Provincetown.  If you met with them at the resort, then Tom wants to hear about it.  If they came to your home and you live in Massachusetts then send Tom your story.

If you live outside of Massachusetts, but the dealings happened in Massachusetts then Tom wants to hear from you, too.

If you know of other owners who would want to have their story presented to the advocate, please contact them and give them this information and Tom's email address

*Please do this as soon as possible as his meeting is this coming Wednesday.  *

*Tom's email address is:  tominspfld@gmail.com*

Thank you


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## Sandy VDH

I did not turn over my deed and refused any calls from Outfield Marketing.  Does Tom Mitchell also want to hear from us about the legality of the SA?  I have sent it to the Consumer Assistance Council already but should we be sending issues with the SA to Tom as well?


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## Classylassy523

Sandy Lovell said:


> I did not turn over my deed and refused any calls from Outfield Marketing.  Does Tom Mitchell also want to hear from us about the legality of the SA?  I have sent it to the Consumer Assistance Council already but should we be sending issues with the SA to Tom as well?[/QUOTE
> 
> Did you have an actual meeting with Outfield?  Tom was looking for people who had been exposed to the Outfield dog and pony show, whether they turned their deeds over or not.


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## Sandy VDH

Classylassy523 said:


> Did you have an actual meeting with Outfield?  Tom was looking for people who had been exposed to the Outfield dog and pony show, whether they turned their deeds over or not.



NO, thanks that what I needed to know.


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## mamiecarter

*Timesharing today just sent out SOS for sandcastle owners!*

Sancastle owners at cape cod are having huge problems with new developer. 
They can use all the help they can get. Anyone know anything about this?????


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## Tia

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Equivest-PeppertreeOwners/?yguid=301889772

Had some posts regarding this resort and Festiva awhile back as I recall.


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## TUGBrian

few threads about it in the eastern section here as well.

http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?p=804479#post804479


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## Sou13

*Advisory committee*

Does anyone know who's on the advisory committee that to my knowledge was supposed to be meeting today?  Please review the info above, since my intent is to bump this up to the top of the page!


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## Classylassy523

*Looking for Sandcastle Owners*

We continue to reach out to Sandcastle deeded owners who are unaware of the growing group of owners who have been able to band together and share communications. 

If you are an owner or know of owners who are unaware of our efforts to keep Festiva Adventure Club from acquiring any more deeds, to stop Outfield Marketing from continuing their horrendous treatment of owners and to rid the Sandcastle of the current management situation, please have them contact me through TUG BBS via email or private message.

We have many things happening and need to reach as many owners as possible.


----------



## Classylassy523

*Looking for Sandcastle Owners*

We continue to reach out to Sandcastle deeded owners who are unaware of the growing group of owners who have been able to band together and share communications. 

If you are an owner or know of owners who are unaware of our efforts to keep Festiva Adventure Club from acquiring any more deeds, to stop Outfield Marketing from continuing their horrendous treatment of owners and to rid the Sandcastle of the current management situation, please have them contact me through TUG BBS via email or private message.

We have many things happening and need to reach as many owners as possible.


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## PClapham

HI- do you have us listed?  A. Stoll & P. Clapham, week 33.
Thanks
Anita


----------



## Classylassy523

*Sandcastle Owners on Google Groups*

*Specifically for Sandcastle owners and former owners*

There is a group of owners and former owners keeping in contact and communicating among themselves ... the intent is to develop and carry out plans and programs to right the wrong that is going on at our resort.

If you would like to join this list please contact Beryl Soparkar and provide your name, address, phone number, email address, unit(s) and week(s) owned. 

Beryl's email address is: *BSopar@aol.com*


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## Classylassy523

PClapham said:


> HI- do you have us listed?  A. Stoll & P. Clapham, week 33.
> Thanks
> Anita



Anita ...

This is the information (in the previous post) you will need to access this group of owners.  I don't know of any other groups like ours.  This list has been growing since the annual meeting in April.  Not being allowed access to the owners list (despite MA General Laws stating otherwise) we are trying to contact owners and gather names and email address anyway we can.  Beryl Soparkar maintains the list so that is why you will have to contact her.

Hope this helps.


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## Sou13

*Advisory board*



Sou13 said:


> Does anyone know who's on the advisory committee that to my knowledge was supposed to be meeting today?  Please review the info above, since my intent is to bump this up to the top of the page!


According to NEVMSLLC [Post 756702] there was supposed to be an advisory board "that will be made up of individual owners" which will "review all information before it is presented to the trustees and will have direct input for recommendations to the trustees" and should have been appointed in August.  Has this promise been kept?  What can you Sandcastle owners tell us Southcape Owners about the Sandcastle "advisory board"?


----------



## Classylassy523

*Owners Advisory Committee*



Sou13 said:


> According to NEVMSLLC [Post 756702] there was supposed to be an advisory board "that will be made up of individual owners" which will "review all information before it is presented to the trustees and will have direct input for recommendations to the trustees" and should have been appointed in August.  Has this promise been kept?  What can you Sandcastle owners tell us Southcape Owners about the Sandcastle "advisory board"?



The Sandcastle OAC met on September 26th at the Sandcastle.  From what I understand there were 6 chosen members and 3 physically attended the meeting and 1 attended via computer (like a net meeting, I think), and 2 were 'no shows'.  We have had a couple of reports .. not too much for 2010 was reviewed as far as I could read ... it was more questions from the owners and answers from Cliff and Tom Franks of Outfield Marketing (both are on the Board of Trustees).

Following is a report that was sent to our owners e-list:

Board of Trustees Members Present…Cliff Hagberg, Tom Franks(also Outfield Marketing Partner)

Owners present…Marie Caniglia-Robiolio, Chuck Hazard, Ernie Pergano, Paul Lehrman present via webcam/video conference on laptop…two other owners dropped out. 


My questions are italicized.  Both Cliff and Tom gave answers to the questions.  I did not indiacte who answered what in many cases. 


_Why did you fail to give the owner’s list to owners who asked to see it?_
Cliff’s response was that there are two conflicting laws…one stating we the owners have a right to see the list and the other is the Privacy Act stating it is illegal to give out private information.   


Cliff’s attorneys said he would be/ could be sued either way.  If he doesn’t give it up he could be sued by the owners for not complying with the law requiring him to do so or he could be sued by someone who got hurt because of the information he gave out.  There is a liability here because privacy is compromised.  He was advised by his lawyer not to give it out because there is a greater liability in this situation.  Someone could be stalked, hurt in some way, bothered by someone who got a hold of that list.  He stated it is a responsibility as a trustee to reduce liability and that meant not giving out the owners’ private information.  He did state the privacy law number but I was unable to write the number down.  Anyone can look it up. 


_Did you know there was a deficit when you purchased the inventory?_  They knew there was a deficit but had no idea it was so huge.

_You didn’t get a reduced price from the old Trustees on the inventory you bought because of the deficit or the condition of the resort did you?_  They laughed…NOOO 


_Why the 26% increase in the 2009 maintenance fees? _ To cover all the expenses and balance the budget except for the $350,000 shortfall which would be covered by the assessment. 


The budget is now balanced. 


_Do you anticipate the maintenance fees will go up annually?_  Yes, because all things get more expensive each year, but will not go up anywhere near 26% 


_Will all financial records be available for owners to view? _Yes, on an individual basis, just call the office and let them know in advance when you are coming. 


_Will you be going after owners who do not pay their Maintenace fees and assessments?_  Yes, they will go after all the money first, then try for half.  If they are unable to get anything, and since it is too expensive to forclose, they will go after it by something called “Entry and Possession”  They will go in the room the week the owner is supposed to be there and follow a certain procedure which I will have to get more info on.  I didn’t write it all down and I can’t remember the procedure but ultimately the title will revert back to the association.  The week can then be sold and it’s the association’s money. 


_Cliff, did you pay your maintenance fees on your personal week?_  No, I was unaware that I didn’t pay it until Debbie told me I didn’t pay them this year.

_How could you let that happen?_  It just slipped my mind.

_Do you plan on paying them? And any late fee?_  yes

_And are you going to pay the assessment?_ yes 


_Cliff did you convert your week to points?_ No

_Do you plan on it?_ No, I have RCI points. 


_Will you be taking weeks back?_ If all maintenance fees are paid and there are extenuating circumstances they will consider it.  The title will revert back to the association.  They generally will not take weeks back. 


_If the developer has a week for rent and an owner has a week they want the resort to rent…who gets priority?_  The developer’s week will get priority because all the money from developer’s weeks that are rented goes to the association as per developer agreement. 


The 25% fee that the resort charges to rent an owner’s week also goes to the association as per developer agreement.  


_I asked about a trust issue we could possibly have since all this is going on?  How will we, the owners know that all income is being reported, especially owners’ weeks that are left to be rented out by the resort?  They could potentially be occupied by outfield sales people or free night promotional give aways.  How will the owners ever know.? _ It is a trust issue and there has to be some amount of trust.  Plus there are maid reports and registry documents that can be seen, and there is always a chance an owner will call their room on their week to be rented and if someone answers the phone after they were told its not been rented…well there is going to trouble and they/ NEVS doesn’t need that or want that trouble. 


_Well you do know there are big trust issues right now, so trust is hard at this point. You understand?_ Yes but we have nothing to hide.




********_Why doesn’t the developer pay fees and assessments on his unsold inventory? _The prior developers didn’t .

_So what does that have to do with you as the developer now…_ The bank would not finance the deal unless the declarent was not responsible for the maintenance fees. 

********This is one of the issues that I need to get clarification on.  I am not satisfied with their answer at this time and Cliff had issues about discussing it.   


Questions about Festiva 


_Does/Will Festiva pay maintenance fees and assessment?_   Yes

_Will Festiva have voting rights to the units they hold deeds to?_  Yes 

_Can/will Festiva have control if they get 51% of the resort?_  Yes, but it is virtually impossible for Festiva to get 51% based upon the fact that there are 4000 owners. That would mean more than half would have to turn over their weeks.  And they also can not take over no matter what percentage they own as long a NEVS is the developer, for contractual reasons. 


Cliff and Tom both said there won’t be any issues if the owners make sure they all vote. 


_I mentioned about the lack of trust we have at this point and not having transparency…

I said there needs to be a way to show that you NEVS/Outfield have nothing to hide.  Wouldn’t it be a smart thing to do to let one of the owners be on the Board of Trustees?_ Cliff and Tom made a call to another Trustee and decided it would be a good idea to have the owners elects one owner to be on the Board of Trustees. 


Cliff and Tom will soon be sending out notices stating the duties and responsibilities of the Trustee and will ask for candidates to submit resumes for owners to review and then an election will be held.  Details will follow.  



Questions about Outfield Marketing 


_I mentioned to Tom Franks who is not only a Board of Trustee member, but he is one of the 3 partners in Outfield, that there were so many issues with Outfield and that the owners had been told such as outright lies. I listed several which were told to me directly._  He said he was unaware of the complaints as he had not heard from any owners.  He did say that some of the original sales people that went to people’s homes were fired for various reasons.  Please call them with any Outfield issues. 


_Is Outfield getting paid by Festiva to sell points? _Tom was evasive but I believe after I asked several times he finally said yes.  

********_I asked how much Outfield got out of the $3000 that Festiva charges?_  NEVS gets about 50%

********_So what does Sandcastle get out of it?_  We get maintenance fee paying owners.

********I have issues with this answer.  Not too happy about it.  


_Where do the Outfield salespeople stay when here at the resort? _ In developer units, however, if they stay in an owners rooms they will pay for it.

_Does Outfield pay for expenses? _Yes, they even have a separate phone bill that they pay but they also have an agreement with the developer. 



_Cliff is any member of your family involved in the renovations?_  No

_But doesn’t your brother work here as a maintenance man?_ Yes, but not on renovations 


_I did mention the fact that Cliff himself said his brother was a master carpenter and that Cliff said his brother was going to do some work on cabinets and furniture to save the resort some money._  Cliff agreed with that statement. 


_I asked about the annex and I asked if the rooms there were going to be rented and how much we could expect_…Cliff said that he expects $50,000 -$70,000 per year. About $65 per night. The rents go to the association. 



_I asked if the rooms were going to be used as free promo nights for outfield marketing ?_ yes they could be and if they were Outfield would pay for the rooms out of their pockets.  


Cliff will be choosing two additional people to be on the advisory board.  It will meet about 4 times a year.  More details to follow. 


_I had a question about the assessment fees_…if you agreed to pay installments and you are late a few days, they will not charge a late fee and void the installment deal. 


_Cliff did say that if anyone put anything on their check such as “paying under protest” the checks will be returned as funds not available or something to that effect. And he will then charge you a late fee.  There is no escrow fund and the demand letters according to Cliff do not mean a thing. _ 


_Cliff and Tom did say that some financial issues and other issues are developer issues and have nothing to do with the association. _ 


I hope I did not leave anything out.  If I did I will send the additional notes.


----------



## chark

"I mentioned to Tom Franks who is not only a Board of Trustee member, but he is one of the 3 partners in Outfield, that there were so many issues with Outfield and that the owners had been told such as outright lies. I listed several which were told to me directly. He said he was unaware of the complaints as he had not heard from any owners. He did say that some of the original sales people that went to people’s homes were fired for various reasons. Please call them with any Outfield issues."

This is a lie, I sent a letter of demand to C. Hagberg with specific complaints about Outfield; he responded that he was forwarding my complaints to Outfield.  I NEVER heard from Outfield.  So who is lying?


----------



## Classylassy523

chark said:


> "I mentioned to Tom Franks who is not only a Board of Trustee member, but he is one of the 3 partners in Outfield, that there were so many issues with Outfield and that the owners had been told such as outright lies. I listed several which were told to me directly. He said he was unaware of the complaints as he had not heard from any owners. He did say that some of the original sales people that went to people’s homes were fired for various reasons. Please call them with any Outfield issues."
> 
> This is a lie, I sent a letter of demand to C. Hagberg with specific complaints about Outfield; he responded that he was forwarding my complaints to Outfield.  I NEVER heard from Outfield.  So who is lying?



Cliff has said that he reported to Outfield about the complaints and that they fired some, hired new and Outfield sent people to train the new salesmen.  If that was the truth then Tom Franks lied, or maybe he is being kept in the dark.  

Personally, I don't think they would know the truth if it came up and bit them in their backsides.  Their idea of truth is probably anything that is beneficial to them and only them.

I just sat through another meeting with Outfield Marketing ... with a trainee.  Not the high pressure, in your face, insulting and demoralizing presentation that I experienced last year, but there were blatant untruths.  Could tell he was being very cautious and he even mentioned the complaints received  from owners about other salespeople.  So if a trainee knows about the problems, how can Tom Franks be so uninformed?


----------



## Classylassy523

*Correction to this report*



Classylassy523 said:


> The Sandcastle OAC met on September 26th at the Sandcastle.  From what I understand there were 6 chosen members and 3 physically attended the meeting and 1 attended via computer (like a net meeting, I think), and 2 were 'no shows'.  We have had a couple of reports .. not too much for 2010 was reviewed as far as I could read ... it was more questions from the owners and answers from Cliff and Tom Franks of Outfield Marketing (both are on the Board of Trustees).
> 
> Following is a report that was sent to our owners e-list:
> 
> Board of Trustees Members Present…Cliff Hagberg, Tom Franks(also Outfield Marketing Partner)
> 
> Owners present…Marie Caniglia-Robiolio, Chuck Hazard, Ernie Pergano, Paul Lehrman present via webcam/video conference on laptop…two other owners dropped out.
> 
> 
> My questions are italicized.  Both Cliff and Tom gave answers to the questions.  I did not indiacte who answered what in many cases.
> 
> 
> _Why did you fail to give the owner’s list to owners who asked to see it?_
> Cliff’s response was that there are two conflicting laws…one stating we the owners have a right to see the list and the other is the Privacy Act stating it is illegal to give out private information.
> 
> 
> Cliff’s attorneys said he would be/ could be sued either way.  If he doesn’t give it up he could be sued by the owners for not complying with the law requiring him to do so or he could be sued by someone who got hurt because of the information he gave out.  There is a liability here because privacy is compromised.  He was advised by his lawyer not to give it out because there is a greater liability in this situation.  Someone could be stalked, hurt in some way, bothered by someone who got a hold of that list.  He stated it is a responsibility as a trustee to reduce liability and that meant not giving out the owners’ private information.  He did state the privacy law number but I was unable to write the number down.  Anyone can look it up.
> 
> 
> _Did you know there was a deficit when you purchased the inventory?_  They knew there was a deficit but had no idea it was so huge.
> 
> _You didn’t get a reduced price from the old Trustees on the inventory you bought because of the deficit or the condition of the resort did you?_  They laughed…NOOO
> 
> 
> _Why the 26% increase in the 2009 maintenance fees? _ To cover all the expenses and balance the budget except for the $350,000 shortfall which would be covered by the assessment.
> 
> 
> The budget is now balanced.
> 
> 
> _Do you anticipate the maintenance fees will go up annually?_  Yes, because all things get more expensive each year, but will not go up anywhere near 26%
> 
> 
> _Will all financial records be available for owners to view? _Yes, on an individual basis, just call the office and let them know in advance when you are coming.
> 
> 
> _Will you be going after owners who do not pay their Maintenace fees and assessments?_  Yes, they will go after all the money first, then try for half.  If they are unable to get anything, and since it is too expensive to forclose, they will go after it by something called “Entry and Possession”  They will go in the room the week the owner is supposed to be there and follow a certain procedure which I will have to get more info on.  I didn’t write it all down and I can’t remember the procedure but ultimately the title will revert back to the association.  The week can then be sold and it’s the association’s money.
> 
> 
> _Cliff, did you pay your maintenance fees on your personal week?_  No, I was unaware that I didn’t pay it until Debbie told me I didn’t pay them this year.
> 
> _How could you let that happen?_  It just slipped my mind.
> 
> _Do you plan on paying them? And any late fee?_  yes
> 
> _And are you going to pay the assessment?_ yes
> 
> 
> _Cliff did you convert your week to points?_ No
> 
> _Do you plan on it?_ No, I have RCI points.
> 
> 
> _Will you be taking weeks back?_ If all maintenance fees are paid and there are extenuating circumstances they will consider it.  The title will revert back to the association.  They generally will not take weeks back.
> 
> 
> _If the developer has a week for rent and an owner has a week they want the resort to rent…who gets priority?_  The developer’s week will get priority because all the money from developer’s weeks that are rented goes to the association as per developer agreement.
> 
> 
> The 25% fee that the resort charges to rent an owner’s week also goes to the association as per developer agreement.
> 
> 
> _I asked about a trust issue we could possibly have since all this is going on?  How will we, the owners know that all income is being reported, especially owners’ weeks that are left to be rented out by the resort?  They could potentially be occupied by outfield sales people or free night promotional give aways.  How will the owners ever know.? _ It is a trust issue and there has to be some amount of trust.  Plus there are maid reports and registry documents that can be seen, and there is always a chance an owner will call their room on their week to be rented and if someone answers the phone after they were told its not been rented…well there is going to trouble and they/ NEVS doesn’t need that or want that trouble.
> 
> 
> _Well you do know there are big trust issues right now, so trust is hard at this point. You understand?_ Yes but we have nothing to hide.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ********_Why doesn’t the developer pay fees and assessments on his unsold inventory? _The prior developers didn’t .
> 
> _So what does that have to do with you as the developer now…_ The bank would not finance the deal unless the declarent was not responsible for the maintenance fees.
> 
> ********This is one of the issues that I need to get clarification on.  I am not satisfied with their answer at this time and Cliff had issues about discussing it.
> 
> 
> Questions about Festiva
> 
> 
> _Does/Will Festiva pay maintenance fees and assessment?_   Yes
> 
> _Will Festiva have voting rights to the units they hold deeds to?_  Yes
> 
> _Can/will Festiva have control if they get 51% of the resort?_  Yes, but it is virtually impossible for Festiva to get 51% based upon the fact that there are 4000 owners. That would mean more than half would have to turn over their weeks.  And they also can not take over no matter what percentage they own as long a NEVS is the developer, for contractual reasons.
> 
> 
> Cliff and Tom both said there won’t be any issues if the owners make sure they all vote.
> 
> 
> _I mentioned about the lack of trust we have at this point and not having transparency…
> 
> I said there needs to be a way to show that you NEVS/Outfield have nothing to hide.  Wouldn’t it be a smart thing to do to let one of the owners be on the Board of Trustees?_ Cliff and Tom made a call to another Trustee and decided it would be a good idea to have the owners elects one owner to be on the Board of Trustees.
> 
> 
> Cliff and Tom will soon be sending out notices stating the duties and responsibilities of the Trustee and will ask for candidates to submit resumes for owners to review and then an election will be held.  Details will follow.
> 
> 
> 
> Questions about Outfield Marketing
> 
> 
> _I mentioned to Tom Franks who is not only a Board of Trustee member, but he is one of the 3 partners in Outfield, that there were so many issues with Outfield and that the owners had been told such as outright lies. I listed several which were told to me directly._  He said he was unaware of the complaints as he had not heard from any owners.  He did say that some of the original sales people that went to people’s homes were fired for various reasons.  Please call them with any Outfield issues.
> 
> 
> _Is Outfield getting paid by Festiva to sell points? _Tom was evasive but I believe after I asked several times he finally said yes.
> 
> ********_I asked how much Outfield got out of the $3000 that Festiva charges?_  NEVS gets about 50%
> 
> ********_So what does Sandcastle get out of it?_  We get maintenance fee paying owners.
> 
> ********I have issues with this answer.  Not too happy about it.
> 
> 
> _Where do the Outfield salespeople stay when here at the resort? _ In developer units, however, if they stay in an owners rooms they will pay for it.
> 
> _Does Outfield pay for expenses? _Yes, they even have a separate phone bill that they pay but they also have an agreement with the developer.
> 
> 
> 
> _Cliff is any member of your family involved in the renovations?_  No
> 
> _But doesn’t your brother work here as a maintenance man?_ Yes, but not on renovations
> 
> 
> _I did mention the fact that Cliff himself said his brother was a master carpenter and that Cliff said his brother was going to do some work on cabinets and furniture to save the resort some money._  Cliff agreed with that statement.
> 
> 
> _I asked about the annex and I asked if the rooms there were going to be rented and how much we could expect_…Cliff said that he expects $50,000 -$70,000 per year. About $65 per night. The rents go to the association.
> 
> 
> 
> _I asked if the rooms were going to be used as free promo nights for outfield marketing ?_ yes they could be and if they were Outfield would pay for the rooms out of their pockets.
> 
> 
> Cliff will be choosing two additional people to be on the advisory board.  It will meet about 4 times a year.  More details to follow.
> 
> 
> _I had a question about the assessment fees_…if you agreed to pay installments and you are late a few days, they will not charge a late fee and void the installment deal.
> 
> 
> _Cliff did say that if anyone put anything on their check such as “paying under protest” the checks will be returned as funds not available or something to that effect. And he will then charge you a late fee.  There is no escrow fund and the demand letters according to Cliff do not mean a thing. _
> 
> 
> _Cliff and Tom did say that some financial issues and other issues are developer issues and have nothing to do with the association. _
> 
> 
> I hope I did not leave anything out.  If I did I will send the additional notes.



I received an email from the author of this report, correcting the verbage regarding the checks received as payment of or on the Special Assessment bill.  The author wrote:

I believe I wrote an e-mail after the one you are referring to, correcting myself, that is wasn't the words "paying under protest" that was an issue...it was the fact that there was/is no escrow account for those funds to be placed into.  Since there was no escrow account he could not accept the money under those terms...making the funds not available to him. I don't have CLiff's exact response in front of me...but that is what I recall.


----------



## chark

My check was cashed with the words "paying under protest" on it.


----------



## Classylassy523

chark said:


> My check was cashed with the words "paying under protest" on it.



Thank you for that information.  Some people have had their checks returned to them.  It is nice to know that some checks have been accepted.


----------



## Fig

Classylassy523 said:


> Cliff has said that he reported to Outfield about the complaints and that they fired some, hired new and Outfield sent people to train the new salesmen.  If that was the truth then Tom Franks lied, or maybe he is being kept in the dark.
> 
> Personally, I don't think they would know the truth if it came up and bit them in their backsides.  Their idea of truth is probably anything that is beneficial to them and only them.
> 
> I just sat through another meeting with Outfield Marketing ... with a trainee.  Not the high pressure, in your face, insulting and demoralizing presentation that I experienced last year, but there were blatant untruths.  Could tell he was being very cautious and he even mentioned the complaints received  from owners about other salespeople.  So if a trainee knows about the problems, how can Tom Franks be so uninformed?



This claim of "Gee, that's the first I've heard of this" has been going on for years from Festiva on...Cliff has been claiming it's a rarity ever since he was on this board. Go back and read his posts. These trainees don't come to this job making this stuff up and then sounding like a chorus of parrots...same claims over and over again...someone is training them in these claims. There is A LOT of money at stake here...millions in loans against both properties and 50% of each conversion going to NEVS...follow the money and you have the incentive for "blantant untruths".


----------



## Fig

Classylassy523 said:


> Is Outfield getting paid by Festiva to sell points? [/I]Tom was evasive but I believe after I asked several times he finally said yes.
> 
> ********_I asked how much Outfield got out of the $3000 that Festiva charges?_  NEVS gets about 50%
> 
> QUOTE]
> 
> How this is not a HUGE conflict of interest is beyond the capacity of any rational mind to comprehend...where is the "trust" in trustees who are getting 50% of a conversion that at a minimum runs $3000? These are not trustees according to any traditional HOA defintion. They are people who are making a lot of money to push a  point conversion scheme and appear to be fighting tooth and nail for the right to stop anyone from interfering with their efforts.


----------



## Classylassy523

*Check returned*

My check for the first payment of the Special Assessment was returned.  Cliff won't cash a check with any conditions attached.  There is no legal judgement directing him to deposit the monies so the letters serve only as an opinion of the payor.  Cliff likes to flex his muscles.


----------



## Classylassy523

*Who is lying?*

Tom Franks knows nothing about any problems with Outfield sales personnel.  Cliff has reported the problems to Outfield and trouble makers have been removed, new salespeople are trained and in place.  Terry, the Outfield trainee, has been told about problems with sales people.

I was subjected to the ordeal of the Greg Hughes selling technique a year ago.  Lies, half truths, exaggerations, threats, high pressure and fear.  He left the resort, only to be replaced with a clone.  

This year I got a trainee.  According to Terry, the trainee, NEVS is part of Festiva Adventure Group.  Really?  Hmmm.  Cliff says they are not associated in anyway.  Asked Terry about that statement and he repeated himself.  Brought it up again and the answer was the same for the third time. Well, son of a gun!

I did learn something new ... that when an owner turns the deed over to Festiva the owner's name stays on the deed.  Really?  Hmmmm.  I asked, 'it does?'  Yes said Terry, the trainee.  It stays on the deed even though it is deposited into a Trust.  I ask ... So, does that mean that if I quit the FAC organization that I get my deed back?  Terry, the trainee, changed the subject.  Reality ... When the deed is registered the name on it is Intercity Escrow Services ... for Festiva.  That is the owner of that deed.

Some things just don't change.


----------



## Fig

Classylassy523 said:


> Tom Franks knows nothing about any problems with Outfield sales personnel.  Cliff has reported the problems to Outfield and trouble makers have been removed, new salespeople are trained and in place.  Terry, the Outfield trainee, has been told about problems with sales people.
> 
> I was subjected to the ordeal of the Greg Hughes selling technique a year ago.  Lies, half truths, exaggerations, threats, high pressure and fear.  He left the resort, only to be replaced with a clone.
> 
> This year I got a trainee.  According to Terry, the trainee, NEVS is part of Festiva Adventure Group.  Really?  Hmmm.  Cliff says they are not associated in anyway.  Asked Terry about that statement and he repeated himself.  Brought it up again and the answer was the same for the third time. Well, son of a gun!
> 
> I did learn something new ... that when an owner turns the deed over to Festiva the owner's name stays on the deed.  Really?  Hmmmm.  I asked, 'it does?'  Yes said Terry, the trainee.  It stays on the deed even though it is deposited into a Trust.  I ask ... So, does that mean that if I quit the FAC organization that I get my deed back?  Terry, the trainee, changed the subject.  Reality ... When the deed is registered the name on it is Intercity Escrow Services ... for Festiva.  That is the owner of that deed.
> 
> Some things just don't change.



Do you know Tom Franks knows nothing of the problems with Outfield Marketing or is that what he says? If I recall correctly, Outfield Marketing is no longer allowed to sell for Festiva on any of their Festiva properties and has been stopped from making at home calls...this all came about when Festiva was being investigated by the NC AG. As Outfield must have brought in huge profits for Festiva, one has to imagine how bad things got in the sales tactics arena that necessitated cutting ties with Outfield. Are you aware that Tom Franks has been cited by the FCC in regards to marketing timeshares?


----------



## Carolinian

Where are you people in getting legal help to get your membership list that you are entitled to by law and Cliff is stonewalling on, so that you can properly organize to fight these slugs and alert owners about the Festiva ripoff?  The courts in California have ruled that similar stonewalling by Worldmark was ''unreasonable and unlawful''.

As to Outfield, it seems to require lies and misrepresentations to push the murky world of points.


----------



## Classylassy523

Fig said:


> Do you know Tom Franks knows nothing of the problems with Outfield Marketing or is that what he says? If I recall correctly, Outfield Marketing is no longer allowed to sell for Festiva on any of their Festiva properties and has been stopped from making at home calls...this all came about when Festiva was being investigated by the NC AG. As Outfield must have brought in huge profits for Festiva, one has to imagine how bad things got in the sales tactics arena that necessitated cutting ties with Outfield. Are you aware that Tom Franks has been cited by the FCC in regards to marketing timeshares?



That is what Tom Franks said at the OAC meeting.  I questioned whether Cliff was sitting there and did Cliff correct Tom.  After all, Cliff did tell us that he notified Outfield of the problems with their staff.  

Fig, do you honestly think for one minute I believe anything coming out of the mouth of any Outfield employee or Cliff Hagberg?  People who consistently lie, speak half-truths and fabricate don't get a vote of confidence from me.


----------



## Fig

Classylassy523 said:


> That is what Tom Franks said at the OAC meeting.  I questioned whether Cliff was sitting there and did Cliff correct Tom.  After all, Cliff did tell us that he notified Outfield of the problems with their staff.
> 
> Fig, do you honestly think for one minute I believe anything coming out of the mouth of any Outfield employee or Cliff Hagberg?  People who consistently lie, speak half-truths and fabricate don't get a vote of confidence from me.



Understood...irony doesn't always translate as smoothly on BBs.  Outfield Marketing is a strange thing...a CEO who lives 1300 miles from his legal office, a tiny shack in a run down section of Denton, TX, people doing business with these folks for years who can't supply a valid address....looking less and less like a bonafide "third-party business" as opposed to a convient arrangement on paper that allows Festiva to push its points scheme. Here's hoping your legal and "get the word out" efforts can help put a stop to this kind of stuff soon.


----------



## ChrisH

Fig said:


> Do you know Tom Franks knows nothing of the problems with Outfield Marketing or is that what he says? If I recall correctly, Outfield Marketing is no longer allowed to sell for Festiva on any of their Festiva properties and has been stopped from making at home calls...this all came about when Festiva was being investigated by the NC AG. As Outfield must have brought in huge profits for Festiva, one has to imagine how bad things got in the sales tactics arena that necessitated cutting ties with Outfield. *Are you aware that Tom Franks has been cited by the FCC in regards to marketing timeshares?[/*QUOTE]
> 
> Hi Fig
> 
> Did you mean the FCC or the FTC is this statement?  Couldn't find any related complaint on the internet.
> 
> Chris


----------



## Fig

ChrisH said:


> Fig said:
> 
> 
> 
> Do you know Tom Franks knows nothing of the problems with Outfield Marketing or is that what he says? If I recall correctly, Outfield Marketing is no longer allowed to sell for Festiva on any of their Festiva properties and has been stopped from making at home calls...this all came about when Festiva was being investigated by the NC AG. As Outfield must have brought in huge profits for Festiva, one has to imagine how bad things got in the sales tactics arena that necessitated cutting ties with Outfield. *Are you aware that Tom Franks has been cited by the FCC in regards to marketing timeshares?[/*QUOTE]
> 
> Hi Fig
> 
> Did you mean the FCC or the FTC is this statement?  Couldn't find any related complaint on the internet.
> 
> Chris
> 
> 
> 
> 
> FCC...here it is. He was the Pres of a Resort that robocalled people's homes. The volume must have been pretty big to set off this kind of warning by the FCC. The claim by Cliff that he is protecting people by not letting fellow owners have a copy of the list is pretty bizarre when you figure he handed the list over to people who have violated FCC laws for marketing purposes. In the case of NEVS, the "marketing" even went further than repeated phone calls at dinner time as Outfield Marketing reps made their way into people's homes under the claim that they were "updating people" on changes at the resort. From things posted here and elsewhere there was very little updating going on but instead high pressured sales pitches to get people to hand over deeds for $3,000 a pop.
> 
> http://www.fcc.gov/eb/Orders/2002/EB-02-TC-256.pdf
> 
> Festiva has stopped home visits to push points for properties. Perhaps the legal ramifications outweighed the benefits...who knows...the NC AG was probing Festiva when they decided to pull back on using Outfield Marketing.  But neither property on the Cape is considered Festiva owned, so Cliff could give Outfield the list to market for as long as they wanted and that appears to be what is happening as NEVS makes 50% and the owner associaton grows weaker with every conversion. Again, these are not trustees in any traditional sense.
Click to expand...


----------



## Sou13

*"Tracy Sparks"*

I had a message left for me on my home telephone from a "Tracy Sparks" who left her # for me to return her call.  The # is 561-255-9549 and the purpose of the call was to give me "inportant information" about my timeshare.

Of course I have no intention of returning that call but did save the message.

It now looks as though we may need to add the FCC to our list of agencies to which we need to be complaining.  Thanks for the info, Fig!


----------



## Sou13

Timesharing Today will be publishing another article, this time on the marketing and sales practices any of the owners experience IN THEIR HOMES.

They will need our help.  This is what they are looking for:

They are planning a generic article about the sales tactics of developers going to the homes of owners and coercing them into converting them to points. The article won't give any names but will be descriptive of the methods used. Please let TimeSharing Today know what experiences of owners were without disclosing any personal or confidential information.

So, why are they doing all this picking and poking?

TimeSharing Today believes a storm is brewing in the timeshare industry. Owners are moving beyond just complaining; they are organizing in many areas of the country and internationally and have either already turned to the courts or are getting ready to do so. Attorneys General have undertaken action to curb scams. It is their belief that 2010 may prove to be an explosive year for timeshare litigation that will affect developers, owners associations, management companies and millions of owners. A multitude of owners are realizing that they have lost control. In some cases, they have learned that they never really had control. Owners are tired of being manipulated, coerced and lied to. Some of these allegations have already been made public in the courts, in print and on various online forums and blogs. The word is out and it won't go away.

TimeSharing Today is committed to covering all aspects of the industry. They have been publishing a lot of painful stories and have spoken directly to many concerned owners who are desperate for change in an industry that has so much good to offer but can't seem to effectively regulate itself. The courts may be their only source for relief. But, there are also so many happy tales. Perhaps, many more than the tales of conflict and abuse. Let's never overlook the positive side of vacation ownership. Let's work toward raising the level of good faith and fair dealing every timeshare owner deserves. If we're stuck to a contract of adhesion, let's work toward having that contract result in happy, carefree timeshare vacations.

    Please email comments to: staff@tstoday.com  Subject: The industry

Below is a special message to Sandcastle/Southcape owners whose plight has been published in TimeSharing Today:

 TimeSharing Today Magazine has been publishing since 1991 as an independent voice for the owner. It recently announced enhanced services to be more proactive in advocating for the owners on the issues that many are facing. TimeSharing Today has begun supporting us by publishing our letter detailing the difficulties we are addressing and obtaining a response from the resort management. As we continue to seek greater owner control at our resort, TimeSharing Today will continue to support our efforts to create awareness. We ask that you show your support by subscribing to this important publication. Please use this link: https://tstoday.com/shop/freebonus.aspx?source=grp02


----------



## Fig

Sou13 said:


> I had a message left for me on my home telephone from a "Tracy Sparks" who left her # for me to return her call.  The # is 561-255-9549 and the purpose of the call was to give me "inportant information" about my timeshare.
> 
> Of course I have no intention of returning that call but did save the message.
> 
> It now looks as though we may need to add the FCC to our list of agencies to which we need to be complaining.  Thanks for the info, Fig!



Since you own a timeshare, I think they can contact you as there is an existing business relationship. The robocalls for Silverleaf that Tom Franks was held accountable for I think were just random calls by machine. However, the claim that they are giving you "important information" is bogus...we all know this is a marketing call to try and get $3,000 out of you for a timeshare you own. That Cliff let people who have been cited by the FCC and also have been thrown out of houses in other states have access to owners kinda shows you how intent he is on protecting anyone. He and his Outfield Markeing friends took out a $2.5 million loan on these properties...this and this alone goes along way towards explaining why people are hearing so many lies. You can't sell points that nobody wants without streaching the truth. Trustees who make 50% on selling points at several thousand a pop and who have a $2.5 mortgage to pay at a time when timeshares are not selling have their priorties set for them. It seems to be playing out in the heavy handed push for points so many are complaining about. Hopefully, you can reach enough owners before too much is done to enrich these folks at your expense.


----------



## ecwinch

Carolinian said:


> Where are you people in getting legal help to get your membership list that you are entitled to by law and Cliff is stonewalling on, so that you can properly organize to fight these slugs and alert owners about the Festiva ripoff?  The courts in California have ruled that similar stonewalling by Worldmark was ''unreasonable and unlawful''.
> 
> As to Outfield, it seems to require lies and misrepresentations to push the murky world of points.



Just FYI - today the Court of Appeals in California in the WorldMark case lifted the stay that was preventing the release of the owner mailing list information. The only portion of the stay that they did not lift was regarding the e-mail addresses of the owners (most likely because the by-laws of WM do not specifically address that issue).


----------



## Fig

ecwinch said:


> Just FYI - today the Court of Appeals in California in the WorldMark case lifted the stay that was preventing the release of the owner mailing list information. The only portion of the stay that they did not lift was regarding the e-mail addresses of the owners (most likely because the by-laws of WM do not specifically address that issue).



I grabbed this off another board. 

10/14/2009

Order filed.

On March 20, 2009, this court entered a stay of the superior court's "Order Denying in Its Entirety Petitioner Worldmark, The Club's Application for Protective Order," filed on January 23, 2009, in Sacramento County Superior Court Case No. 34-2008-00025130-CU-PT-GDS.

This court now modifies the stay to permit enforcement of the superior court's order except insofar as the superior court required that email addresses be subject to disclosure to members.

Pursuant to the modified stay, email addresses need not be disclosed pending further order of this court. In all other respects, the superior court's order compelling disclosure of membership information is now enforceable upon the terms described in the order. BLEASE, Acting P. J. (Si)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If you have any legal folks working on the case, you might want to pass it along as it appears very similar in that it was a violation of bylaws and an alleged attempt by Worldmark to control the board by not letting owners communicate with each other. In your case you have not only a developer controlling the board but also directly profiting from his control as he and the three other board members, who are part of a marketing organization pushing points on owners, are receiving 50% of the fee per owner conversion, which can be upwards of $3,000.


----------



## Classylassy523

*Letter from CAC, Inc.*

I have received a letter from Paul Schrader, Executive Director of the Consumer Assistance Council, Inc. (CAC), Hyannis, MA. I quote:

Dear Ms. Gallant,

I am writing in response to the complaint you filed with the Massachusetts Attorney General's Office against Sandcastle Resort/Festiva/Outfield marketing. Your complaint was sent to the Cape Cod Consumer Assistance Council (CAC) to attempt mediation.

Despite our efforts, the CAC was unable to resolve your complaint through mediation. I have been asked to return Sandcastle Resort complaints to the Attorney General's Office for further review and consideration.

The Attorney General's staff may be back in touch with you if they require additional information. We understand that this is a difficult issue and we appreciate your bringing your concerns to our attention.

Sincerely,
Paul Schrader
Executive Director

One thing that has either been omitted, overlooked in the writing of this letter, or not included are our complaints against NEVS LLC and NEVMS LLC. Now the CAC and/or the AGs office may be including them under the Sandcastle Resort name but I raise the question because I never filed a complaint against the Sandcastle Resort. I consider the resort itself separate from NEVS and NEVSMS about whom I filed complaints. 

My concerns now are that these complaints will get lost in the AG's office ... stuffed into a box, desk drawer or file cabinet ... and nothing will come of all our pleas for help.

I am asking that everyone who filed complaints and others who are sympathetic to our cause write the Massachusetts Attorney General and encourage them, demand, plea, or beg those who have received our documents do something to stop the travesty that is going on at the Sandcastle and Southcape resorts. 

The address is:
Massachusetts Attorny General
One Ashburton Place
Boston, MA 02108

In your letters please refer to the complaints filed by deeded owners and former deeded owners of timeshare intervals at Sandcastle Resort, Provincetown, MA and Southcape Resort, Mashpee, MA

There are many owners who are appreciative of any support and assistance others can provide us.


----------



## Sou13

Classylassy523 said:


> My check for the first payment of the Special Assessment was returned.  Cliff won't cash a check with any conditions attached.  There is no legal judgement directing him to deposit the monies so the letters serve only as an opinion of the payor.  Cliff likes to flex his muscles.


How were you able to stay at the Sandcastle if your first special assessment installment check was returned?


----------



## Classylassy523

Sou13 said:


> How were you able to stay at the Sandcastle if your first special assessment installment check was returned?



I have no idea.  I had, technically, made the payment.  He chose not to accept it.  Maybe he didn't make that decision until after I was there.  I didn't ask.  Just went about my business.

Sent it back with another check for the second payment both marked the same.

I am trying to pay it.  Keeping my end of the bargain.


----------



## Sou13

I found two interesting references to Cliff Hagberg in TimeSharing Today:

A defamation suit filed by Resort Investment Trust against a New England broker (Cliff Hagberg) who publicized Resort Investment Trust’s method of operation is proceeding slowly. According to Hagberg, the case is still in the pretrial discovery phase and no trial date has yet been established.
http://www.alltimeshare.com/front.pdf

TimeSharing Today Page 18 Nov/Dec, 2000
The defamation lawsuit filed by Resort Investment Trust (RIT) against new England resale broker Cliff Hagberg is moving slowly, with pretrial discovery delayed by Hagberg’s recent back surgery.

Hagberg had been publishing information about the activities of Resort Investment Trust and Swiss American Bank (SAB) when Resort Investment trust sought to enjoin his dissemination of the information and to recover damages for the alleged defamatory statements. The court refused to issue an injunction based on a preliminary determination that RIT was unlikely to succeed in their suit.

According to Hagberg, the U.S. Attorney is now investigating these companies. Although they are headquartered in the Bahamas, both companies use U.S.-based sales offices, operating as Global Referral Service, to convince would-be timeshare sellers that RIT or SAB is interested in buying weeks for the appraised value.  The seller is then contacted by one of several U.S.-based appraisal companies who charge $399 for an appraisal.

Presumably, the pre-trial discovery conducted by Hagberg will determine whether RIT and SAB are contolled by the same person and the extent, if any, to which they share in the appraisal fees.
http://www.tstoday.com/members/magazine/issue54/RIT-SAB.pdf

The more Internet searches I do for "Hagberg" the more I find.  Could it be that he lost the suit and is hard-pressed for cash?  Look at what he's moonlighting as ($4000 per week isn't enough for him):
1 Mo' Time - Cape Cod's Good Time Party Band


----------



## NEVMSLLC

Sou13 said:


> I found two interesting references to Cliff Hagberg in TimeSharing Today:
> 
> A defamation suit filed by Resort Investment Trust against a New England broker (Cliff Hagberg) who publicized Resort Investment Trust’s method of operation is proceeding slowly. According to Hagberg, the case is still in the pretrial discovery phase and no trial date has yet been established.
> http://www.alltimeshare.com/front.pdf
> 
> TimeSharing Today Page 18 Nov/Dec, 2000
> The defamation lawsuit filed by Resort Investment Trust (RIT) against new England resale broker Cliff Hagberg is moving slowly, with pretrial discovery delayed by Hagberg’s recent back surgery.
> 
> Hagberg had been publishing information about the activities of Resort Investment Trust and Swiss American Bank (SAB) when Resort Investment trust sought to enjoin his dissemination of the information and to recover damages for the alleged defamatory statements. The court refused to issue an injunction based on a preliminary determination that RIT was unlikely to succeed in their suit.
> 
> According to Hagberg, the U.S. Attorney is now investigating these companies. Although they are headquartered in the Bahamas, both companies use U.S.-based sales offices, operating as Global Referral Service, to convince would-be timeshare sellers that RIT or SAB is interested in buying weeks for the appraised value.  The seller is then contacted by one of several U.S.-based appraisal companies who charge $399 for an appraisal.
> 
> Presumably, the pre-trial discovery conducted by Hagberg will determine whether RIT and SAB are contolled by the same person and the extent, if any, to which they share in the appraisal fees.
> http://www.tstoday.com/members/magazine/issue54/RIT-SAB.pdf
> 
> The more Internet searches I do for "Hagberg" the more I find.  Could it be that he lost the suit and is hard-pressed for cash?  Look at what he's moonlighting as ($4000 per week isn't enough for him):
> 1 Mo' Time - Cape Cod's Good Time Party Band



Thanks for the plug, Sou13.  Please check out our website and, if anyone wants to hire Cape Cod's Best Party Band, let me know and I'll give you a TUG discount.  Let me know what you think of the music as well!!


----------



## Sou13

:hysterical:


----------



## Sou13

So it's really you, NEVMSLLC!  And you expect to get *paid* for performing?  You should be paying us for humoring you!

So tell me, why does someone who is paying himself more than the salary of the Vice President of the United States for "General and Administrative" services need to be moonlighting as well?


----------



## NEVMSLLC

First of all, Sou13, I don't get paid anywhere near what you think I do.  You continually misinterpret everything from deeds to mortgages to what I'm paid.  You haven't gotten anything right yet.

Second of all, I've been playing guitar since I was in junior high school and, if I must say so myself, I'm actually pretty good at it!  What more fun can you have as a guitar player than playing in a rock and roll band?  I even heard from one owner who checked out the band and wondered if we'd play at the Sandcastle next year!  Who knows, it might even happen . . . 

Finally, you're posting on the wrong board again.  This is about Sandcastle.


----------



## e.bram

Cliff:
Would you play the guitar for someone(the Count) to help serenade a lady(Rosina) like Figaro did in The Barber of Seville". How much?


----------



## NEVMSLLC

Well, E.bram, I'd have to get out my classical guitar and brush up a little on my flamenco techniques, but I think I could pull it off.  Are we talking about one song or a night of mystical and seductive music?

(I can do both, by the way!)

For a solo act, I usually charge $150  to $200 plus fee drinks.  Let me know


----------



## ecwinch

Classylassy523 said:


> I have no idea.  I had, technically, made the payment.  He chose not to accept it.  Maybe he didn't make that decision until after I was there.  I didn't ask.  Just went about my business.
> 
> Sent it back with another check for the second payment both marked the same.
> 
> I am trying to pay it.  Keeping my end of the bargain.



For once, I think Cliff got some good legal advice on not denying your usage. 
He must have a new lawyer, or has started listening to the one he has.


----------



## Sou13

NEVMSLLC said:


> First of all, Sou13, I don't get paid anywhere near what you think I do.  You continually misinterpret everything from deeds to mortgages to what I'm paid.  You haven't gotten anything right yet.
> 
> Second of all, I've been playing guitar since I was in junior high school and, if I must say so myself, I'm actually pretty good at it!  What more fun can you have as a guitar player than playing in a rock and roll band?  I even heard from one owner who checked out the band and wondered if we'd play at the Sandcastle next year!  Who knows, it might even happen . . .
> 
> Finally, you're posting on the wrong board again.  This is about Sandcastle.


So why don't you come over to the Southcape discussion and answer Eric's question?

As for what I think you're getting paid, why don't you spell it out for all of us so that we can get a better idea of where that "General and administrative" services charge is going?  You have posted on the Southcape Resort discussion that you like your "job" and hope that we'll keep you on:

I'm the General Partner of the management company and that's how I make my money. If I do a good job, the owners will want to keep me. If I do a lousy job, they should throw me out. Guess which way I'd prefer! I have a vested financial interest and incentive to do the best management job possible for the resort and the owners or I'm going to have to find another way to make a living. I actually like what I do and I enjoy talking with the owners (mostly . . . ). For almost twenty years I've had a vision of what Southcape could be and now I have a chance to make it a reality. There is a plan to make that happen and I'll get into that in more detail at another time. My fingers are getting sore from typing!

Finally, I don't get paid by Southcape, I don't get paid by Festiva and I don't get paid by Outfield. I will get paid by NEVS if I can help them successfully sell their weeks (so, yes, I want them to sell their weeks!) and I get paid by the management company. That's it. It means absolutely nothing to me if owners join Festiva or not.http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=84127&page=10​


----------



## Fig

*Question for Eric*



Sou13 said:


> So why don't you come over to the Southcape discussion and answer Eric's question?
> 
> As for what I think you're getting paid, why don't you spell it out for all of us so that we can get a better idea of where that "General and administrative" services charge is going?  You have posted on the Southcape Resort discussion that you like your "job" and hope that we'll keep you on:
> 
> I'm the General Partner of the management company and that's how I make my money. If I do a good job, the owners will want to keep me. If I do a lousy job, they should throw me out. Guess which way I'd prefer! I have a vested financial interest and incentive to do the best management job possible for the resort and the owners or I'm going to have to find another way to make a living. I actually like what I do and I enjoy talking with the owners (mostly . . . ). For almost twenty years I've had a vision of what Southcape could be and now I have a chance to make it a reality. There is a plan to make that happen and I'll get into that in more detail at another time. My fingers are getting sore from typing!
> 
> Finally, I don't get paid by Southcape, I don't get paid by Festiva and I don't get paid by Outfield. I will get paid by NEVS if I can help them successfully sell their weeks (so, yes, I want them to sell their weeks!) and I get paid by the management company. That's it. It means absolutely nothing to me if owners join Festiva or not.http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=84127&page=10​



Eric, if Cliff is paying the 2.5 mil mortgage out of his "salary" is this kosher? Trying to figure out how he and his buddies are financing the mortgage they took out on Sandcastle and Southcape. Nothing is being sold and fees are soaring, so that would be my logical guess. He can't flat out charge folks for the loan he took out and have it show up as as a line item in the budget, but couldn't he cut himself a big salary for "administrative" and service the loan out of that? Just wondering.


----------



## Fig

"Finally, I don't get paid by Southcape, I don't get paid by Festiva and I don't get paid by Outfield. I will get paid by NEVS if I can help them successfully sell their weeks."

It's nice to have a history of Cliff Hagberg's statements here so we can see the contradictions. Just like when his alts like Viv, etc, and he posted that they did not know each other when it was revealed they were so intimate they were all typing from the same web address...sometimes within minutes of each other! Funny how they all scattered when he was outed. 

Then there was the time he said he always told you the truth Sou13, until I pointed out that he swore he had not used another name to get on your email list and that name was the same one he used for his twitter account. 

He posted the above before he admitted in a public meeting with that he and his buddies get 50% of each Festiva conversion...the money might pass through an account owned by NEVS, but Festiva dollars most likely end up in his pocket. Judging from the conversions that have gone through and the NEVS weeks that have been sold, he should have a nice wad of Festiva dollars...and the NEVS weeks that have been sold, well, as I recall, they seem to be a little lacking to say the least.


----------



## e.bram

The owners who converted to Festiva points> do they pay an amount per point or the same amount as the mfs for week owners regardless of the tome slot they own? I presume the point amount is allocated based on the time slot of ownership.


----------



## ecwinch

Fig said:


> Eric, if Cliff is paying the 2.5 mil mortgage out of his "salary" is this kosher? Trying to figure out how he and his buddies are financing the mortgage they took out on Sandcastle and Southcape. Nothing is being sold and fees are soaring, so that would be my logical guess. He can't flat out charge folks for the loan he took out and have it show up as as a line item in the budget, but couldn't he cut himself a big salary for "administrative" and service the loan out of that? Just wondering.



From what Cliff has stated here, NEVS has a management contract to act as the manager or managing entity of the resorts, as is the industry standard practice. Typically this means that NEVS is paid a management fee - typically a percentage of gross revenues (10-15%). If Cliff is drawing a large salary in addition to the mgt fee, then yes, I think that would be an issue of interest in a court of law. Particularly if Cliff is approving his own salary, and it is excessive by industry standards.


----------



## ChrisH

*Contacts:  Write to an Editor*

For those owners who wish to have their voices heard in the local Cape Cod media, here are some resources:

Letters Editor, 
Cape Cod Times, 
319 Main St., Hyannis MA 02601. 
Letters may be faxed to: (508) 771-3292.
Editor in chief: Paul Pronovost, 508 862-1166
Editorial Staff: Newsroom staff list 
Ombudsman: Jayne M. Iafrate

The Cape Cod Chronicle 
60-C Munson Meeting Way, 
Chatham, MA 02633
508-945-2220 • 508-430-2700
Editorial Dept.: 508-945-2220
Production Dept: 508-945-2228
Advertising Dept: 508-945-2229
FAX: 508-945-2579

The Barnstable Patriot 
Submit Letter to the Editor 
4 Ocean Street
Hyannis, MO 01206
Phone: 508-771-1427 
 Fax: 508-790-3997
letters@barnstablepatriot.com


The Provincetown Banner
167 Commercial St. 
 PO Box 977 
 Provincetown, MA 02657
Tel: 1 (508) 487-7400 
 Free: 1 (888) 782-2267 
 Fax: 1 (508) 487-7144


----------



## ChrisH

*Contacts:  Cape Cod State Senator and Reps*

For those who wish to voice their concerns to the Representatives in the Cape Cod Area or to our US Senators here are the contacts:

Senator Robert O’Leary
State House
Room 511B
Boston, MA 02133
Telephone: (617) 722-1570
Fax: (617) 722-1271
Robert.O'Leary@state.ma.us
DISTRICT REPRESENTED: CAPE AND ISLANDS.— Barnstable, precincts 1 to 9, inclusive, and 13, MashpeeProvincetown, 

MATTHEW C. PATRICK -Mashpee Rep
State House	               District Office
Room 540	               24 Collins Road
State House	               P.O. Box 3252
Boston, MA 02133	               Falmouth, MA 02536
Telephone: 617-722-2090	  508-540-6308
Facsimile: 617-722-2848	 
E-mail: Rep.MatthewPatrick@hou.state.ma.us
RepMattP@Cape.com

JEFFREY D. PERRY - Mashpee Rep
State House	                   District Office
Room 136	                   449 Route 6A
State House	                   Post Office Box 1435
Boston, MA 02133	                   Sandwich, MA 02563
Telephone: 617-722-2396	      Phone: (508)-888-2158
Facsimile: 617-722-2819	      Fax: (508) 888-1179
Email: Rep.JeffreyPerry@hou.state.ma.us

SARAH K. PEAKE - Provincetown Rep
State House	
Room 473F	
State House	
Boston, MA 02133	
Telephone: 617-722-2210	508-487-5694
Facsimile:617-722-2239	
E-Mail: Rep.SarahPeake@Hou.State.MA.US

*US SENATORS- MA*

John F. Kerry (Democrat) 
421 Russell Senate Office Building 
United States Senate 
Washington, D.C.  20510 
PHONE: 
1-202-224-2742 
FAX: 
1-202-224-8525 
E-MAIL: 
john_kerry@kerry.senate.gov 
WEB: 
http://www.senate.gov/~kerry/ 


Paul G. Kirk, Jr.
Democrat - Massachusetts 
317 RUSSELL SENATE OFFICE BUILDING
WASHINGTON DC 20510
DC Phone: 202-224-4543
Email: Senator_Kirk@kirk.senate.gov


----------



## Sou13

*Call the Secretary of State*

Massachusetts Secretary of State William Francis Galvin has been running TV advertisements for Massachusetts residents to call a toll-free # if they have been victims of fraud.  On his website there is an announcement of a $3.9 million restitution to Massachusetts residents who have been victims of a senior citizen fraud case.

The toll-free # is fleeting and hard for senior citizens to read, and it's not announced, but I did manage to jot it down and call it today.  I talked to a very helpful and empathetic volunteer who couldn't understand why the Attorney General hasn't filed a class action suit against New England Vacation Services.  He encouraged owners of timeshares in Massachusetts to get more vocal and make our case heard.  The contact info posted above is just the beginning of who should be hearing from us.

Today there's an article in the Cape Cod Times:  AG files suit for alleged Cape timeshare scam


----------



## ChrisH

*Fraud case question*

Isn't the settlement you mentioned in relation to securities sold in MA only by a specific broker?  

I find the post confusing, because it appears to be an announcement of $3.9 million for any senior citizen who has been a victim of fraud, and it only applies to this particular case.

Thanks


----------



## Sou13

The TV advertisements are vague and don't necessarily make it clear that the # has been set up for victims in this particular settlement and the volunteer suggested that it was made vague enough to encourage victims of any kind of fraud to call.


----------



## Sou13

*Quick response*

I called yesterday:

*1-800-269-5428* and got this response in today's mail:

Thank you for contacting the Massachusetts Securities Division (the "Division") regarding your complaint.  After reviewing the information that you sent, the Divisioon has concluded that the matter falls within the jurisdiction of the Massachusetts Department of Consumer Affairs and Business Regulation.

Massachusetts Department of Consumer Affairs and Business Regulation
10 Park Plaza, Suite 170
Boston, MA 02116
Telephone: 617-973-8787

Thank you for bringing this matter to our attention.  The Securities Division depends on individuals like you to help us enforce the securities laws and protect investors from future abuse.​
I heard the TV advertisement twice this a.m. and while it's a senior citizen complaining about being scammed out of his and his wife's savings by a ponzi scheme, the Secretary of State encourages calls, stating that they "may be able to help you."  If you feel that you are a victim of fraud, PLEASE call!

This is especially important for those Sandcastle and Southcape owners who have been scammed out of their deeded weeks.  Don't give up hope!  And it doesn't just apply to Massachusetts residents, because the deeded property is in Massachusetts, which makes you a part-time Massachusetts resident.


----------



## mweinberg

*Franchised by Whom?*

The following is an email received from the Texas Comptroller of Public Accounts in response to an inquiry about Outfield Marketing.  The question this raises is that if Outfield is really a franchise, who exactly are they franchised by?

Hagberg and company have been maintaining all along that Outfield is an independent firm hired by Festiva to market its points program.  This email seems to suggest otherwise; perhaps the original conjecture about the relationship between NEVS, Festiva, and Outfield was closer to the truth.  We already know that some of the principals of Outfield are also principals of NEVS.  Perhaps Festiva and Outfield are related as well.

Mr. Hagberg, would you care to attempt to explain this away?

FORWARDED EMAIL:

The Comptroller of Public Accounts received your written request for information on November 16, 2009. Your request has been assigned ID #[redacted] by this office.

According to our records, Outfield Marketing LTD, taxpayer number 3-20359-2336-9, did not file a franchise tax public information report, which lists officers and directors. They did however file a franchise tax ownership-p information report.

Information about corporate officers and directors is specifically designated as public information by Texas Tax Code 171.203. There is no comparable provision making public the information about the principles of other entity types. It is our interpretation of Texas Tax Code 171.206 that ownership information reported by other entity types (associations, partnerships, trusts) as part of their franchise tax filing is confidential and not subject to public disclosure.

Thank you,

Gerti S. Gonzales
Open Records Division
Texas Comptroller of Public Accounts
LBJ State Office Building
111 East 17th Street, Room 210
Austin, Texas 78774
phone: 512) 475-1033
1800) 531-5441, Ext. 5-1033
fax: 512) 475-1610

By the way, Cliff; just because you choose to ignore my questions and emails, that doesn't mean that I'm going to just disappear.


----------



## Sou13

*?????*

I don't quite understand what this means.  Can someone explain?  Thanks!


----------



## T_R_Oglodyte

mweinberg said:


> The following is an email received from the Texas Comptroller of Public Accounts in response to an inquiry about Outfield Marketing.  The question this raises is that if Outfield is really a franchise, who exactly are they franchised by?
> 
> Hagberg and company have been maintaining all along that Outfield is an independent firm hired by Festiva to market its points program.  This email seems to suggest otherwise; perhaps the original conjecture about the relationship between NEVS, Festiva, and Outfield was closer to the truth.  We already know that some of the principals of Outfield are also principals of NEVS.  Perhaps Festiva and Outfield are related as well.
> 
> Mr. Hagberg, would you care to attempt to explain this away?
> 
> FORWARDED EMAIL:
> 
> The Comptroller of Public Accounts received your written request for information on November 16, 2009. Your request has been assigned ID #[redacted] by this office.
> 
> According to our records, Outfield Marketing LTD, taxpayer number 3-20359-2336-9, did not file a franchise tax public information report, which lists officers and directors. They did however file a franchise tax ownership-p information report.
> 
> Information about corporate officers and directors is specifically designated as public information by Texas Tax Code 171.203. There is no comparable provision making public the information about the principles of other entity types. It is our interpretation of Texas Tax Code 171.206 that ownership information reported by other entity types (associations, partnerships, trusts) as part of their franchise tax filing is confidential and not subject to public disclosure.
> 
> Thank you,
> 
> Gerti S. Gonzales
> Open Records Division
> Texas Comptroller of Public Accounts
> LBJ State Office Building
> 111 East 17th Street, Room 210
> Austin, Texas 78774
> phone: 512) 475-1033
> 1800) 531-5441, Ext. 5-1033
> fax: 512) 475-1610
> 
> By the way, Cliff; just because you choose to ignore my questions and emails, that doesn't mean that I'm going to just disappear.



"Franchise Tax" doesn't mean what you think it does.  In many states, "franchise tax" is simply the agency that collects income taxes.  For example, in California the Franchise Tax Board is the agency that collects all income taxes.

The term probably originates from the fact that whenever a corporation is created, the permission for the corporation to exist is a legal franchise to operate.  "Franchise" in this regard simply means "permission".  

When states then began taxing corporations that was then designated a "franchise tax". It has nothing to do with franchising as a business operations model.


----------



## Sou13

*Rangeley Lake Resort*

I've been in contact with an interval owner at Rangeley Lake Resort in Maine which has been taken over by Festiva but in this case it was Festiva that purchased the "unsold weeks":

September 2008

As we head into fall, the colors are beginning to show and the nights are getting cooler.  The town has quieted down from the hustle and bustle of vacation weeks, but there are still many good restaurants and shops to choose from.  This month the Resort became affiliated with Festiva Resorts, as they purchased the unsold weeks from the developer.  They will be offering new options and vacation opportunities to the Owners.  If you have any questions, their Owner Services Department can be reached at 866-933-7848.  Current Owners of deeded weeks can continue making their reservations as they always have, and all existing reservations will be honored.  And speaking of reservations, if you haven’t already made your flex week reservations for 2009, please try to make them as soon as possible to secure your desired week.  This year’s annual HOA meeting, normally scheduled for the second Saturday in December, has been moved up to November 22.  Details of time and location will be posted on the Members’s Only pages shortly, but it is expected to be in the same location on the SMCC campus in South Portland.​
I wanted to check out some of the info provided by the owner for myself, so I did an Internet Search for "Rangeley Lake Resort" Festiva and discovered that there's a civil case that's been filed against Festiva Resorts Development Group:  http://www.med.uscourts.gov/Opinions/Rich/2009/JHR_10272009_2-09cv365_McCormick_v_Festiva.pdf


----------



## Sou13

*New owners, big changes*

New owners, big changes
While the comments to this Boston Globe article appear to have come to a standstill, I posted a link to TUG which I hope readers will follow to the Southcape and Sandcastle discussions.  There's a lot of info about Sandcastle in this discussion that needs to be revived!


----------



## Sou13

I've been advised by Sandcastle owners that the reporter did interview at least one Southcape owner but decided to focus on Sandcastle. I've also been advised by Lois Martin in the AGO that there have definitely been more than 34 complaints filed, and that they are currently being reviewed. Anyone who hasn't received an acknowledgment needs to contact the hotline to track down the whereabouts of the missing complaint.


----------



## Carolinian

*More Festiva slime*

http://www.tribune242.com/sports/01192010_Complain_business_Page1-2


----------



## ChrisH

*Sandcastle - latest pics of renovations*

Use the link below or click photo gallery on the main page.

Work on common areas by NEVS- without Association approval/vote as required by the MGL.

http://www.sandcastlecapecod.com/PhotoGalleryDetails.asp?cid=2&pg=1005

Still no owners link as promised last June.  

Just spending our money as fast as they can, without approval.:annoyed:


----------



## Sou13

*Advisory committee?*

Has the Sandcastle advisory committee met more than once, and will there be a meeting before the owners' meeting in April?


----------



## Sou13

*Sandcastle advisory committee?*



Sou13 said:


> Has the Sandcastle advisory committee met more than once, and will there be a meeting before the owners' meeting in April?


Sandcastle owners seem to have gone underground ever since forming the Google group.


----------



## ChrisH

*Latest Renovation Photos: Sandcastle*

Here's the link to the latest photos of the renovations, from late February.  

http://www.sandcastlecapecod.com/PhotoGalleryDetails.asp?cid=2&pg=1006

If the link doesn't work, go to sandcastlecapecod.com, click the photo gallery icons and find Feb 22nd.

Chris


----------



## Sou13

*Owners' advisory committee?*

Again I must ask, have there been any advisory committee meetings since the one that was posted on TUG?


----------



## ChrisH

*Interesting Lawsuits update: Florida AG and many players*

March 11, 2010
Media Contact: Sandi Copes
Phone: (850) 245-0150


Attorney General Focuses Consumer Protection Initiative on Timeshare Resale Industry


~ McCollum announces 2009 was record-breaking year for consumer recoveries ~


TALLAHASSEE, FL – In continuing recognition of National Consumer Protection Week, Attorney General Bill McCollum today announced he is tackling growing abuses in the timeshare resale industry, beginning with the announcement of a significant settlement that could yield as much as $1.3 million in consumer refunds and the filing of a lawsuit against a major player in the timeshare resale industry in Florida. The Attorney General also unveiled ongoing investigations into at least 17 timeshare companies and their affiliates throughout the state for deceptive trade practices. 

“Florida’s consumers are trying to make prudent financial decisions, but many timeshare resale companies are blatantly scamming people by promising sales or refunds and failing to provide services even after taking hefty up-front fees,” said Attorney General McCollum.

The statewide initiative was launched by the Attorney General’s Economic Crimes Division in 2009 in response to the growing number of timeshare resale complaints received by the Attorney General’s Office last year. Timeshare resale complaints have recently surpassed mortgage-related complaints as the most commonly reported consumer complaint received by the Office’s Consumer Hotline.

The lawsuit filed today against Resales Buy Owner.com, Inc. states the company engaged in a systematic pattern of deception that improperly induced consumers to pay up-front fees for timeshare resale services that were never provided. According to consumer complaints, the company would indicate it either had a buyer or renter interested in the timeshare and that there would be no problem renting or selling the timeshare within 90 to 120 days. According to the lawsuit, the company merely advertised the property listings, if taking any action at all, and allegedly charged consumers’ credit cards even after consumers opted not to do business with the company. The lawsuit seeks an order prohibiting the company from engaging in further deceptive conduct and seeks full restitution on behalf of victimized consumers, civil penalties and reimbursement for fees and costs. Two additional lawsuits are also pending against other companies.

The Attorney General’s Office also announced a significant settlement with Virtual Group, Inc., an Orange County company, resolving allegations the company failed to provide promised refunds to consumers. Virtual Group, which does business under the name Realty Trade, offered timeshare resale and rental advertising services to consumers looking to sell or lease their timeshare properties. As a result of the Attorney General's investigation, Realty Trade has already paid over $800,000 in refunds to 799 consumers. The company will also make another $500,000 available to consumers who make new refund requests.

Over the past year, the Attorney General’s Office has also reached settlements with six other timeshare resale companies obtaining total restitution to consumers of more than $298,000, with approximately $50,000 more in escrow to resolve future complaints in some cases. Several of these settlements contributed to a record-breaking $216 million in restitution for Florida consumers obtained by the Attorney General’s Office in 2009. Since 2007, the Attorney General’s Office has returned over $363 million in restitution for Florida consumers, several times more than the recoveries obtained over the previous four years.

In addition to the litigation and the settlement announced today, in recent months, the Attorney General’s Office has subpoenaed 17 timeshare resale companies and their affiliates over allegations of potentially deceptive business practices. Common complaints about timeshare resale companies involve the use of false and deceptive claims to entice consumers to pay up-front fees, including assertions that buyers are allegedly ready and willing to buy or rent the consumers’ timeshare. Companies also often allegedly fail to honor cancellation policies, misrepresent the actual services that will be provided to consumers, and fail to comply with elements of state and federal telemarketing acts. 

Floridians who are considering listing their timeshare for sale or rent are encouraged to contact the Attorney General’s Office to inquire whether or not specific companies have complaints reported against them. Consumers can contact the Attorney General’s Citizen Services Division by calling the Attorney General’s fraud hotline at 1-866-9-NO-SCAM (1-866-966-7226) or by visiting the Attorney General’s website at http://www.myfloridalegal.com.

Pending litigation:
- American Marketing Group, LLC., located in West Palm Beach – lawsuit filed in January 2010
- Hicks, Inc., doing business as Universal Marketing Solutions and Creative Vacation Solutions, located in West Palm Beach – the Attorney General’s Office filed a lawsuit against these companies in October 2009. An Agreed Orders for Temporary Injunctive Relief was obtained against this company and its principals in January 2010, and further litigation is pending.

Companies subpoenaed:
- Executive Timeshare Marketing, Inc., located in Tamarac, Florida 
- Coastal Timeshare Solutions, Inc., located in Boca Raton, Florida 
- Worldwide Resorts Direct, Inc. and Worldwide Marketing Solutions of Palm Beach, Inc., doing business as Worldwide Timeshare, located in West Palm Beach, Florida
- TS Luxury Group, Inc., located in Lake Worth
- C& G Marketing Associates, LLC., doing business as Premier Timeshare Solutions, located in Palm Beach Gardens
- Nationwide Marketing Solutions, Inc., doing business as Magnum Advertising Services, Inc., located in Lake Worth
- International Resort Solutions, LLC., located in Lake Worth
- E.A.T. Sales LLC, located in Boca Raton
- Euroamerican Timeshare LLC., located in Boynton Beach
- Transatlantic Timeshare LLC., located in Boynton Beach
- Seabreeze Advertising Corp., also known as SBA, Corp., located in Daytona Beach
- Timeshare Market Pro, located in Davie
- International Marketing and Finance, located in Wellington
- Gold Crown Property Management, Inc., located in Dunedin
- Vacation Property Resales, Inc., doing business as BUYATIMESHARE.COM, located in Tampa
- Timeshare Only, located in Orlando
- PFS Concepts, Inc., doing business as US Vacation, located in Largo

Recent settlements:
- World Timeshares, Inc., located in Deerfield Beach – The Attorney General’s Office settled with this company in April 2009 and obtained $100,161 in consumer restitution.
- Timeshare Travels, located in Boca Raton – The Attorney General’s Office settled with this company in April 2009 and obtained $90,323 in consumer restitution.
- Vacation Property Trader, located in Deerfield Beach – The Attorney General’s Office settled with this company in May 2009 and obtained $8,447 in consumer restitution. 
- Preferred Vacation Resorts, Inc., doing business as Preferred Property Services, Inc., Preferred Property Services.com, Inc., located in Clearwater – As a result of the Attorney General’s investigation into these companies, they ceased operations in April 2009, and the Attorney General’s Office obtained $36,000 in consumer restitution. 
- D&D Vacations, Incorporated, doing business as United States Property Services,, located in largo – The Attorney General’s Office reached an agreement with this company last week and obtained $26,000 in consumer restitution. 
- S.F.C. Group, Inc. doing business as TWA Resale, located in Orlando – The Attorney General’s Office settled with this company in March 2010 and obtained $37,226 in consumer restitution. 

http://www.myfloridalegal.com/newsrel.nsf/newsreleases/705F60ACA911B5AB852576E300503590


----------



## Sou13

*Mass. Attorney General lists Timeshare Resale scams top of complaints list in 2009*

From Timeshare Users Group Guest Newsletter 3/25/2010:

"Mass. Attorney General lists Timeshare Resale scams top of complaints list in 2009 

"Following Florida’s lead, the Massachusetts Attorney General reports that Timeshare Scams were at the top of their complaints list in 2009, this is becoming a countrywide epidemic! Hopefully it will spurn more Law Enforcement Agencies to begin going after these scams!"


----------



## ChrisH

*ANNUAL MEETING APRIL 24th, 2010 - NOON*

*Attention every Sandcastle Owner:*

We have been told by Hagberg, after requesting the information, that the 

*ANNUAL OWNER' MEETING *will be held on *SATURDAY, APRIL 24th, 2010*

*at noon*, at the SANDCASTLE RESORT.

No owner that our group is in contact with has received a notice of this meeting.

If you are an owner, or know other Sandcastle owner's

*PLEASE plan on ATTENDING*, and let other owner's know of the date and time.


----------



## NEVMSLLC

ChrisH said:


> *Attention every Sandcastle Owner:*
> 
> We have been told by Hagberg, after requesting the information, that the
> 
> *ANNUAL OWNER' MEETING *will be held on *SATURDAY, APRIL 24th, 2010*
> 
> *at noon*, at the SANDCASTLE RESORT.
> 
> No owner that our group is in contact with has received a notice of this meeting.
> 
> If you are an owner, or know other Sandcastle owner's
> 
> *PLEASE plan on ATTENDING*, and let other owner's know of the date and time.



Again, this is incorrect.  Notice of the Annual Meeting was sent to all owners in the newsletter that accompanied the maintenance fee bill.


----------



## ChrisH

*I Stand Corrected .... BUT*

That letter, sent -  when? - last October 2009 or November 2009 announced a meeting for April 24,  2010, well I guess I missed that reading the other lavish tales of the resort. 

also said that a budget was included - it wasn't.

and it said owner's would receive a ballot in January 2010 - no ballot was received.  

Also said a list of units for sale would be available to all owner's at the end of the year.  Didn't receive that either.  Or maybe you meant a different year?
Or maybe you don't have a license to sell them and you are waiting for that? 

Certainly they are not on the website which is supposed to have sales info and an owner's page, since last summer,  

but that isn't there either because the website construction has been dead in the water basically since it's first inception last June/July - 
except for construction photos that get added - 

wouldn't want owners to be able to contact each other. 

Not really sure, what is real, what is not.  Some things seem to be true, others appear to be just window dressing, pretend, a guessing game.


----------



## ChrisH

*More SANDCASTLE BS FROM NEVS*

Today I received, in the mail, a letter from Sandcastle announcing new services/opportunities for vacationers:

It is 4 xeroxed pages (6 pg total if you count the backs) 
So we paid for the paper and ink, envelopes, address labels
The personel time to address and stuff envelopes and the mailing
Cost $0.44 in postage o mail per owner

1) Contains letter of introduction about mgt plans for:
2) Menu for the Castle Grill - if they get a permit to reopen it
3) Food Survey  for Fri night - leaving; or Sat arrival for would you want cookout/clambake/boxed lunches from the snackbar
4-5) Shopping service for groceries - 2 pages worth - ie. 2 liter Sierra Mist @ $3.98 or Cok 20 pz. $2.49. Hot dog buns $3.49 for 8, Jiff PB at $4.99, hot dogs, canned beans, spaghettios etc.
6)  Activities page, what you might like ot be offered, sign up for - scuba, fly fishing, Whale watch, group wine tour, monument tour, tennis tournament, nightly movies, computer workstations, Wii game etc.


I wonder why this didn't include a reminder about the annual meeting?

I wonder why it doesn't contain a ballot for the annual meeting - ie. election of trustees, election of an owner to board of trustees which was supposed to be mailed prior to the meeting?

I wonder why it doesn't contain any information that owners have requested?

You have to pay postage etc to mail it back

Isn't that speciaal.

There planning computer stations and Nintendo Wii but cannot get the owner's section of the website working.

I wonder if this some requirement ordered by Festiva?????


----------



## Sou13

*Sandcastle owners meeting reports*

In anticipation of the *Southcape owners meeting coming up Saturday, May 16 at noon* I've compiled four reports from *Sandcastle owners* who were willing to share with Southcape owners.  These reports are unedited so please don't fault me if there are typos:

*Reporter #1:*

I understand Cliff just stuck to his agenda during the meeting. To some questions he answered that he couldn't answer because he was not a lawyer. He  says the association has a lawyer (I didn't know we had an association). He said we are the association. When someone asked who then is the association lawyer, he said he couldn't give out the name.
He passed out a financial sheet but the figures were all wrong.
He says  Festiva only owns about 10% of Sandcastle weeks (hard to believe). Anyway, there was not much learned at the annual meeting. Much remains hidden.

*Reporter #2:*

Sandcastle had their annual meeting this past Saturday, about 70 owners were present.  Following is a brief summary of the meeting:

The meeting lasted a little over three hours, net result was a range of next to nothing to zero.

The Advisory Committee was introduced, only a few at meeting.  Then, by some owners the fire of “they were hand picked by Hagberg” who stated they were all volunteers.  * was present and took some mouth by a few members of crowd.  In reality, the Advisory Committee is the only real representation we have to getting our questions answered from the Trustees.  So why are they being picked on by the unit owners?  I believe that started some time ago with *.  

Hagberg was personal enough, conducted a good meeting and was even complimented by a few people at the end of meeting.  A lot of rehashing with no result and on difficult questions like:  Special Assessment – why wasn’t the fee allocated between interval unit sizes as is the annual maintenance fee?  when will a new election for Trustees by unit owners take place?  How can the Trustees make property improvements and Special Assessments without the approval of the time share unit owners?  Answers, THAT’S A LEGAL QUESTION FOR ATTORNEYS TO ANSWER.  Hagberg stated the Attorney used by the Trustees is the unit owner’s attorney, and then Hagberg was asked, why isn’t he here to answer the legal questions.  Answer, Blab Blab Blab. 

Met * at meeting, very knowledgeable and easy to converse with.  She passed out copy of unit owner contract, sale of deeded week for points, she was attempting to help owner get back deeded week which had been exchanged for points.  Title of contract “NEW ENGLAND VACATION SERVICES FESTIVA ADVENTURE CLUB MEMBERSHIP APPLICATION”!! 


*Reporter #3:* 

The same old same old, Cliff a bit more secure with himself,  so a bit less flamboyant, able to allow simple questions about the agenda he printed out, but not able to stretch himself beyond. Also, he's not a lawyer so he can't  understand anything else to answer.
He will save the most important info for last when everyone is bursting out of their seats to be finished.

*Reporter #4:*

Here are my notes from the annual meeting. I tended to concentrate on the areas of my own self interest, so I didn't get every piece of information. I also didn't stay for the entire Q&A after the meeting.

Here are my notes:

Cliff opened the meeting by saying that it couldn’t be taped. He had an agenda and indicated that he would take questions on the agenda but anything else would not be answered until after the meeting adjourned.

 First item of business was the Owner Advisory Committee. * recommended that the named be changed to Management Advisory Committee because the members were not elected and Cliff accepted this suggestion.

*Financial Report* 

*2009 Budget* 

For 2009, the actual figures were close to the projected figures except in the case of collections. Delinquenices are in the range of $3.5-4 M. Cliff thought he would collect $100,000 from delinquent accounts but only collected $27,624. 30-35% of units are delinquent. Collections have been turned over to Monterey Financial Services in CA. I googled them and they seem to be a pretty shady company. 

Salaries and wages were $604,772. 

General and Administrative costs were $209,963. 

Total expenses were $1,455,321.00 and there was a profit of $41,345.77. 

The *2010 Budget* was presented but there was a lot of confusion because it became clear that the math was all wrong. The budget said that there was projected income of $25,000 from telephone reimbursement but the actual income from last year was only $410. Cliff tried to explain this as better efforts at collecting reimbursement until he figured out it must be a typo. 

With numerous people asking questions about the outlandish telephone income and the math errors, Cliff made half hearted excused and then quickly moved the discussion on by saying "I'll send a corrected budget." We did move on ..... and never questioned him about the estimates on the income from maintenance fees which he projects are going to decline by *an astounding 30%!* Last year Cliff claimed income of $1,396,793 from maintenance fees. This year he is projecting only $948,000 due to "the economy and aging ownerbase." This is a decrease of $428,693 or 30% of last years total. Doesn't this have serious implications for the viability of the resort? Where did all the owners go in one year? Were there huge numbers who defaulted due to the special assessment? Couldn't it mean that our MF will increase by another 30%? It is hard to believe that we were so confused by the budget errors that Cliff was able to quickly present this and move on with only a few questions that got lost in the shuffle. I would not put it past Cliff to have manipulated this portion of the discussion by deliberately creating confusion. 

Administrative costs are projected to be only $118,615.00 compared to $209,963 last year. No explanation for this. 

Expense for real estate taxes is increasing due to the change in the accounting system from fiscal to calendar year (3 payments will be posted for 2010 instead of 2 but will go back to 2 payments per year after that). Cliff expects increased rental income ($210,000 for 2010 up from $60,000 last year) because he will be renting units that are delinquent even if they haven’t been foreclosed. He also expects $50,000 income from renting the Annex. 

Cliff projected a profit of $4026 but it looked like it would be wiped out when math errors were corrected. Cliff said he was not a math whiz. He will send a corrected budget. Cliff claims that Festiva pays all maintenance and special assessments on their units. Out of a total of 4600 units Festiva owns about 500. Cliff said that NEVS does not pay MF and assessments on their units because the previous owners never did (although as we know the Condo documents say they should.) 

*Renovations.* Royal Coachman building has been shingled, new roof, decks and railings. The Annex and Sunset room are scheduled to be completed within the next couple of weeks. Total expenditures to date are $1,193,657 which is $73,000 under budget. Interior reovations will be scheduled for after this season. 

The cost of the septic system is less than anticipated. The $100,000 upfront cost to the town isn’t necessary. The total cost (about $850,000) will be paid over 20 years and added to the annual maintenance fee. Cliff said anything money left over would go into a reserve fund so that there would not have to be special assessments in the future. 

Question was raised about how the special assessment was calculated. Cliff once again said it was divided by 3300 because that is about how many people he expected would pay the assessment. Point was raised that according to the Condominium documents this in no way conforms to the way the assessment is supposed to be calculated . Cliff he was not able to comment on this because it was a legal point and he is not a lawyer. Question was asked why the lawyer wasn’t there. Cliff said no need for the lawyer to be there. He would not give the name of the lawyer (who according to Cliff is the lawyer for the Association) because he doesn’t want people calling due to the expense. Cliff completely stonewalled on this issue. 

*Delinquent Units:* Cliff has a plan to go to Small Claims court and get ownership  of delinquent units. There are 300 summer units that are delinquent and this is valuable property. He plans to auction them in blocks to big companies (would that be Festiva?) 

Cliff also hopes to make a deal with owners of the restaurant who are deeply in arrears to get that unit back without having to pay them anything. He estimates it is a $400,000 piece of property. 

Cliff has plans for increased activities and amenities such as a Tiki bar, clam bakes, cookouts, etc. All will have fees attached and be self supporting or make a small profit. 

Suggestions were made for ramps to the beach. I pointed out that this would be an improvement and needed approval of owners. Cliff referred to me as "Ms Lawyer." 

Cliff brought up the fact that off season units only pay half the annual maintenance fee and he would like to change this as he doesn’t think it is fair. Attendees with off season units noted that the fees can’t be changed for current owners and Cliff agreed but he would like to change the Master Deed so that fees would be higher for new people buying units. (I have an off season unit so I am particularly interested in this. It seems like the off season units are a thorn in Cliff's side and perhaps losing money overall. There were only about 6 people at the Royal Coachmen when I was there in the 3rd week of Oct.) 

I only stayed for a portion of the question and answer session following the meeting. I once again raised the question of the special assessment and once again Cliff refused to concede that the special assessment was calculated incorrectly. I told him I had sent two certified letters that he failed to respond to and asked what I should do next. Cliff said “Get a lawyer.” 

I also confronted Cliff with the documents that verified NEVS involvement in selling Festiva Points. Cliff admitted that NEVS was an agent for Festiva in the sales of Festiva points but that they were separate companies. (I believe that in the past, Cliff has denied that NEVS was involved in sales of Festiva Points.) 

Cliff maintained that anyone could make an appointment to view all the records and denied that he had refused to make appointments with the Soparkars last year despite many attempts on their part. "Not true" according to Cliff. 

At this point, I felt the Q&A was going no where so I left. I would love to hear from anyone who stayed.


----------



## ChrisH

*Get your facts straight*



> "The Advisory Committee was introduced, only a few at meeting. Then, by some owners the fire of “they were hand picked by Hagberg” who stated they were all volunteers. Marie ? was present and took some mouth by a few members of crowd. In reality, the Advisory Committee is the only real representation we have to getting our questions answered from the Trustees. So why are they being picked on by the unit owners? I believe that started some time ago with Chris ."



To Ele/SOU 13:

I have not had any problems with Marie and I think she is doing her best despite adversity she has faced.  Nor have I 'picked' on her.

If you're going to use my name, get your facts straight.

ChrisH


----------



## Sou13

Sou13 said:


> In anticipation of the *Southcape owners meeting coming up Saturday, May 16 at noon* I've compiled four reports from *Sandcastle owners* who were willing to share with Southcape owners.  These reports are unedited so please don't fault me if there are typos:


I've compiled four reports from *Sandcastle owners who were willing to share* with Southcape owners.  *These reports are unedited!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!*


----------



## Sou13

ChrisH said:


> I have not had any problems with Marie and I think she is doing her best despite adversity she has faced.  Nor have I 'picked' on her.
> 
> If you're going to use my name, get your facts straight.
> 
> ChrisH


*You and anyone else who was at the meeting were asked to post your own reports.*

These reports are of special interest to Southcape Resort owners *in anticipation of the Southcape owners meeting coming up Saturday, May 16 at noon!*  That's *2 weeks from today!*

Since I was not at the meeting I have no way of knowing what happened, can only *copy and paste* what reports I've received.


----------



## ChrisH

*If you don't know the facts - Don't use my name*



Sou13 said:


> *You and anyone else who was at the meeting were asked to post your own reports.*
> 
> These reports are of special interest to Southcape Resort owners *in anticipation of the Southcape owners meeting coming up Saturday, May 16 at noon!*  That's *2 weeks from today!*
> 
> Since I was not at the meeting I have no way of knowing what happened, can only *copy and paste* what reports I've received.



TO: *Eleanor*/Sou13

As you admit, you don't know the facts, weren't there etc.  then you have no right to post accusations with a name attached unless you can confirm it.  

Simple courtesy.  Ought to know better.

ChrisH


----------



## Sou13

*Names edited out*

I've edited out the names and suggest that you do the same for the good of all owners.  I will be unable to do any more editing over the weekend, so please do me the favor of correcting errors before I log off today (was hoping to be able to do so before this).


----------



## Classylassy523

*Caution should have been used*

Ele, your eagerness to demonstrate your ability to have an 'in' on the happenings at Sandcastle, you forgot or didn't think it important to verify your information, especially information that was used in a pointing finger, accusatory manner.

Maybe you should stick to reporting on the happenings at Southcape and leave reporting Sandcastle issues to those who own there.  I don't understand why you felt it necessary to garner information to post here on a Sancastle thread.  There are Sandcastle owners, who if they felt it necessary, could have posted their own thoughts and opinions, and not have their words filtered through you.


----------



## Sou13

I've edited out the names and suggest that you do the same for the good of all owners. I will be unable to do any more editing over the weekend, so please do me the favor of correcting errors before I log off today (was hoping to be able to do so before this).


----------



## Classylassy523

Sou13 said:


> *You and anyone else who was at the meeting were asked to post your own reports.*
> 
> These reports are of special interest to Southcape Resort owners *in anticipation of the Southcape owners meeting coming up Saturday, May 16 at noon!*  That's *2 weeks from today!*
> 
> Since I was not at the meeting I have no way of knowing what happened, can only *copy and paste* what reports I've received.



If these reports are so important to Southcape owners, then why are they not posted on the Southcape thread or why didn't you email them directly to the owners on your Southcape list?  

What was your purpose of posting them on this Sandcastle thread?


----------



## Sou13

I've requested that Southcape owners or interested parties post to the Southcape Resort discussion rather than rely on me to keep it going.  These discussions are open to *all* TUG members and guests and are *public*.

I regret any reactions that have been caused in my haste to get them out into the public domain, which is where they belong.


----------



## ecwinch

Classylassy523 said:


> If these reports are so important to Southcape owners, then why are they not posted on the Southcape thread or why didn't you email them directly to the owners on your Southcape list?
> 
> What was your purpose of posting them on this Sandcastle thread?



Perhaps because the information might be of interest to Sandcastle owners, and to other TUG members who are interested in the tactics that developers use when owners attempt to organize.

Not sure why you seem to be critical of her doing so. What purpose is furthered by her NOT posting the reports?


----------



## Sou13

*Thank you!*

Thank you, TUGBrian, for editing those offensive posts!

Thank you, ecwinch, for your continued interest and contributions to these discussions!

Thank you, most of all, to the Sandcastle owners who were willing to share their observations or reports of the 2010 meeting!

There are many observations which should prove useful to *Southcape owners* in preparation for the upcoming meeting *May 15*.  I'll have to direct attention to them by posting a link.


----------



## Sou13

ChrisH said:


> To Ele/SOU 13:
> 
> I have not had any problems with Marie and I think she is doing her best despite adversity she has faced.  Nor have I 'picked' on her.
> 
> If you're going to use my name, get your facts straight.
> 
> ChrisH


http://www.wickedlocal.com/capecod/...re-owners-consider-new-resort-policies-unjust


----------



## Sou13

Classylassy523 said:


> There are Sandcastle owners, who if they felt it necessary, could have posted their own thoughts and opinions, and not have their words filtered through you.


The original reports were copied and pasted, not "filtered" through me, but with the names edited out they are now "filtered"!


----------



## Sou13

For a "filtered" report of the Sandcastle meeting, contact Classylassy523.

For a "filtered" report of the Southcape meeting, contact Sou13.


----------



## ChrisH

*Be HEARD now - stop takeovers- MA Timeshare Legislation*

MA House Bill 4496

MA legislators are making corrections in MGL 183B - specifically addressing defaults on maintenance and assessment fees, making the process easier to foreclose on those delinquent accounts.


While this bill is beneficial in making it easier for those in financial straits to forfeit their unit for resale, it also gives developers the opportunity to buy and or sell large blocks of units by auction in a resulting takeover from the existing Owner's Association.

*At Sandcastle in Provincetown, the current management has stated *at the annual meeting that our units recouped via this new procedure or small claims court, will be offered 'in bulk' at auction - so members of the existing owners association will NOT be able to buy additional units unless purchased in '100 unit' blocks - therefore essentially allowing for developers like *Festiva in our case*, to overtake the units and gain majority control.   

Also, a bulk sale or auction sale will not necessarily bring the owners association realistic sums of money for prime weeks. Fifty or 100 units sold at in bulk $1000 a piece, prevents most individuals from purchase and allows prime weeks to be sold at significant bargain prices, hurting owners associations financially. 

 Every MA timeshare owner needs to write to their representative requesting that House Bill 4496 be changed to allow your resort OWNERS ASSOCIATION to have the final say on how reclaimed units are sold and or handled.  If you don’t live in MA but own a timeshare in MA, write to the representative in the district where your timeshare is located as you are a taxpayer there.

If you live in MA and own timeshare property in MA, write to both your local representative and the rep in your timeshare district.


http://www.mass.gov/legis/bills/house/186/ht04pdf/ht04496.pdf


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## e.bram

ChrisH: 
If an entity is forced to buy a block of weeks(not cherry pick) and pay MFs and SAs, what is wrong with that? Why would they pay &1000.00 for weeks that can be picked up on Ebay for &1.00 or less and have to pay fees after owning those units?


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## ChrisH

e.bram said:


> ChrisH:
> If an entity is forced to buy a block of weeks(not cherry pick) and pay MFs and SAs, what is wrong with that? Why would they pay &1000.00 for weeks that can be picked up on Ebay for &1.00 or less and have to pay fees after owning those units?



I am not opposed to this bill - I strongly support parts of it such as offering a "cleaner way out" for delinquent owners who just are too financially strapped or elderly or on fixed incomes, to continue making annual payments or special assessments.

I just think it needs some rewording to protect the OA of resorts that are not in such financial straits as to require an auction of 'blocks' of units.  I would prefer it to say that the OA, in posession of a majority, be allowed to make the decision on the sale of units, how it will occur, by whom etc.  Allow the OA to make the decision on whom will be in charge of these sales, fees involved etc etc.  rather than let 'management' or the 'developer' have carte blanche.


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## Sou13

*Corrected budget?  Meeting minutes?*

Have Sandcastle owners been mailed a corrected budget and meeting minutes?


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## Sou13

*This is about Blue Ridge Village!*

This is the place to discuss what's going on at Blue Ridge Village since Festiva took over the management!



tombo said:


> If you call the resort or the HOA president they can tell you which buildings are scheduled to be renovated by what dates. They are doing one bldg, then another, then another, until all are finished, and they have a schedule and timeframe that each bldg should be fnished by. If you contact the resort or Board president you should know whether your building/unit will be renovated by the time you arrive next year. I love this resort and area, I just dislike Festiva.
> 
> If you have never been to Blue Ridge Village or have any questions about the area PM me and I will e-mail you a list I have compiled of things to do in the area. I love this area in the summer and winter, but summer here is my favorite. When it is a miserable 96 degrees here at home, the highs will typically be in the 70's in this area. It is a heat wave when it gets into the low 80's. You hike, picnic, swim, golf, do whatever outdoor activity you enjoy and you are comfortable, not passing out from the heat.If I was wealthy I would buy a summer home in the North Carolina high country and spend my  summers here, with breaks spent vacationing at the beach, however after a week or 2 at the beach I would be returning to the cool,comfortable High Country climate to spend the majority of my summer.


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## ChrisH

*This is the forum to discuss SANDCASTLE - PTOWN*



Sou13 said:


> This is the place to discuss what's going on at Blue Ridge Village since Festiva took over the management!



This is the forum to discuss SANDCASTLE - PTOWN 

not Blue Ridge Village

ChrisH


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## Classylassy523

*Festiva has not taken over the management of Sandcastle*



Sou13 said:


> This is the place to discuss what's going on at Blue Ridge Village since Festiva took over the management!



Maybe you were confused when you posted this on a Sandcastle thread.  The Southcape Resort has been taken over by Festiva, not the The Sandcastle Resort.  Unless, of course, you know something that the Sandcastle owners don't know.


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## Sou13

Sou13 said:


> Have Sandcastle owners been mailed a corrected budget and meeting minutes?


So now that I got your attention, what about this one?


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## ChrisH

*Add YOUR Comments to Boston HERALD article on Timeshares*

There is an article in the Boston Herald about Timeshare Sales practices in general, describing the reporters trip to Oak n' Spruce in the Berkshires for a promotional visit.

At the end of the article is an area to 'post comments'.  This might be an excellent place to voice our concerns about what is happening at Sandcastle, about House Bill 4496 and /or about Festiva at our resort.

Please take the time to read the article, and if you are willing, post a comment, or even send your comments to the editor as well.  See this link for the story:


http://bostonherald.com/news/regional/view.bg?articleid=1262741&format=comments&page=3&listingType=Loc&sort=newest&cnum=1 

*This communication is my opinion and solely my opinion.  
It should not be distributed posted, emailed or otherwise published, in whole or in part, in any form, on any email list, or any forum of any type without my express written permission. *

Chris


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## ChrisH

*Sandcastle Resort Website*

Evidently they are working on the Sandcastle website now.  There are a few new pics of the decks/outside.

The 'Owners' page has a short blurb about the snackbar and activities as well as the work in progress.  It states that this is a 'test' page.

http://sandcastlecapecod.com/

Chris


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## ChrisH

*WBZ-TV to Report on SANDCASTLE- P'Town*

Yesterday afternoon, I spoke to Jon Wells of WBZ-TV Channel 4 Boston who interviewed Cliff Hagberg and some Sandcastle unit owners within the last 2 weeks. 

Jon said the short segment about Sandcastle will be aired on the 11 o'clock news next Monday night.  ( It will probably be repeated on the morning news Tuesday)

For those of you who are out of state, you will most likely be able to watch the segment by going to http://wbztv.com/local on Tuesday and locating the story in the local news section.  

Usually at the end of each story section you may also post comments!  So here is a chance for more owners to air their views in the media.

ChrisH


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## ChrisH

*WBZ-TV BOSTON - REPORT on SANDCASTLE*

Here is the link for the news report from last night (Mon., July 26, 2010).

http://wbztv.com/local/time.share.investigation.2.1826266.html

Copied from the above report: 
_"Festiva Resorts gave us a statement saying complaints at the Sandcastle are largely related to the actions of Cliff Hagberg and Outfield Marketing, not Festiva. The company did say, however, that it will return property deeds to any Sandcastle owners who feel they were pressured to join Festiva."_


There is also an RSS feed that you would have to sign up for to view the video content.


At the end of the report there is a section for *comments* on this news report.  You must register and provide an email address to use this function although your email won't be visible to the public and you can have a username, so that your name does not appear if you don't want it visible. 

Owners at Sandcastle/Royal Coachman should take this opportunity to express their opinions on this public format.

 See the 'register here' link under Add Comment at the end of the report on the WBZ website and shown below.


To post comments, you must log in by clicking here. here. Need a log in? Register here 
Your Name  
Your E-Mail  * Will not be displayed with comment 
Suggest Link  * e.g. (http://www.mywebsite.com) (if you want to include a link to another source)


_The opinions in this post, are mine and mine alone, and should not be distributed via mail, email, internet posting or in any other format without my written permission._

Chris


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## Sou13

Does anyone know why the reporter chose to leave the sale of the Southcape weeks to Festiva out of the report?  I saw the report on the 11 p.m. WVZ-TV4 news and am wondering whether any Sandcastle owners are going to take Festiva up on the offer to get their weeks back.  Do you suppose that Festiva's main interest was in Southcape and agreed to let Outfield Marketing sell conversions at Sandcastle in order to get the Southcape "Developer's Rights"?  Is it possible that Festiva has no intention of incorporating Sandcastle into the "Festiva Family of Resorts"?


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## ChrisH

*Sandcastle PTown Owners - Find us here*

Hi

Sandcastle Resort in PTown has it's own email group.  If you are either:

Sandcastle/Royal Coachman weeks owner 
OR
Sandcastle owner who joined FAC and are NOT happy with Festiva

check in with us at:  scresponds@yahoo.com

We can help you file complaints with the MA Attorney General etc.

ChrisH


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## dian

*Sandcastle converting to Festiva*

We have owned 3 units at the Sandcastle Resort in Provincetown, Ma for over 20 years. 2 of the units were on the 2nd floor. My husband was in a motorcycle accident that left him a paraplegic so the 2nd floor would no longer work for us. We joined Festiva and the "point system" and couldn't be happier. We have 9700 points and can pick and choose what room works best for us. We have learned how to get the most out of the point system and have actually turned 3 weeks into 5. We are very happy with this change. I can understand how it might not work for most people, but our situation is unique and because of the point system we are still able to vacation at Sandcastle only we now have more weeks to enjoy. 
The new management has done some much needed repairs and the place is looking very nice. You can see some of the repairs on the web site. I do however wish they would keep the web site better updated.


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## e.bram

dian = shill??????????????


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## ChrisH

*Unique situation*



dian said:


> We have owned 3 units at the Sandcastle Resort in Provincetown, Ma for over 20 years. 2 of the units were on the 2nd floor. My husband was in a motorcycle accident that left him a paraplegic so the 2nd floor would no longer work for us. We joined Festiva and the "point system" and couldn't be happier. We have 9700 points and can pick and choose what room works best for us. We have learned how to get the most out of the point system and have actually turned 3 weeks into 5. We are very happy with this change. I can understand how it might not work for most people, but our situation is unique and because of the point system we are still able to vacation at Sandcastle only we now have more weeks to enjoy.
> The new management has done some much needed repairs and the place is looking very nice. You can see some of the repairs on the web site. I do however wish they would keep the web site better updated.



You have a unique situation.  Glad you can still use the resort.  
ChrisH


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## ChrisH

*Festiva Announces Special Assessment*

Dear Sir or Madam:

2010 has been a great year for the Festiva Adventure Club. The changes made to the club for 2010 have been a success both for the club's financial health as well as improved member usage and satisfaction. There has been a significant decrease in member delinquencies as compared with 2009 as well as a significant increase in rental revenues related to the rental of nreserved inventory that would otherwise go unused. Currently the positive signs and future indications are looking immeasurably better than this same time in 2009. 

We are excited to say that Festiva Hospitality Group will add more than 3,000 new members to the Adventure Club through its sales efforts by the end of 2010, bringing the total membership to more than 20,000 members. This net increase in members helps to ensure a healthy and vibrant club. 

As we discussed last year, the Festiva Adventure Club has also seen the effects of the economic recession as have many other industries, businesses and individuals. In 2009 there was an increase in delinquencies and defaults from 8% to 14%. As a result the Festiva Adventure Club faced some very large deficits heading into 2010 totaling nearly $900,000. In order to face those deficits head on and to ensure that the Festiva Adventure Club continued to fulfill its mission of providing superior products and services to its members, the maintenance fee structure was adjusted in 2010 to include nearly *15% expected bad debt *and defaults by its members. Fortunately we can say with certainty at this point that delinquencies and defaults will not exceed 15% for 2010. We anticipate that your increase from 2010 to 2011 will be nominal. However, 2011 will also be the year in which the Festiva Adventure Club must assess its first (and it is hopefully its last) Special Assessment. 

The Festiva Adventure Club owns real estate at the resort locations that your membership entitles you to be able to use. Just as the Festiva Adventure Club has seen a rise in delinquencies and defaults as a result of the dire economic conditions, so too have nearly all of the resort locations. In order to make up for those delinquencies and defaults and to also ensure that timely renovations and improvements may continue to happen, many of the Boards of Directors at the resorts have made the difficult decision to special assess the owners of the resorts to raise the required capital funds. 

As a result of, the Festiva Adventure Club has been invoiced approximately $7.8 million by the various resorts. While this news may seem unpleasant, you as a Festiva Adventure Club member are receiving a substantial savings in comparison with an individual resort owner. While the average resort owner will see an average special assessment of more than $700, *you as an Adventure Club member will only see a special assessment of $400 that will be payable in two annual installments of $200.* This $200 special assessment will ensure that the resort locations where you spend your vacation time will be able to meet and exceed your expectations of quality for years and years to come despite these troubled economic times. 

Festiva Hospitality Group passes this news along with sincere empathy as it has certainly felt the pain firsthand. As we mentioned last year, Festiva Hospitality Group (while under no obligation to do so) has subsidized the Adventure Club's bad debt in an amount approaching $1 million during 2009. We mention the above contribution as we predict that the news of this special assessment could be met by accusations and rumors spread among members through various internet outlets or at the resorts since there was such a large increase in maintenance fees in 2010. 

This special assessment will cover many things at many resorts. There will be exterior renovations to beautify certain resorts, complete renovations of the resort accommodations themselves at most resorts, and energy efficient replacements of outdated windows, roofs, cooling systems, hot water heaters, etc. While the timing may be inconvenient, we see this special assessment as an opportunity to take your vacation experience to the next level very quickly and in most cases permanently. 

In addition to the various resorts initiating extensive and sustainable renovations and upgrades, Festiva Hospitality Group and its subsidiaries will be reinvesting in the resorts alongside the resort members and Festiva Adventure Club. At no charge to any member, Festiva Hospitality Group and its subsidiaries will be funding special amenity improvements to be shared by all members. One such project will be to fund the installation of Wi-Fi access at every Festiva managed resort. Not only will Festiva Hospitality Group pay for the installation of the Wi-Fi access, it will also deliver it to you the member at no charge. There will also be special projects such as construction of sporting facilities, common area improvements and more. 

You will also see a new line item on your budget classified reserve expense totaling $50. This addition to your annual maintenance fee should ensure that the need to have a special assessment in the future will be very unlikely. Regardless of whether or not the resorts pass along assessments in the future, the establishment of this reserve fund will ensure there is always an "emergency fund" in place for the Festiva Adventure Club to meet those obligations without having to special assess you the member again. 

As a gesture of appreciation for your continued support, you will also receive a gift from Festiva Hospitality Group in the form of a gift card for a Relaxing Retreat vacation valued at $500 as a thank you. This gift card can be used to reserve a Relaxing Retreat 7 night vacation at one of our resorts in 2011. You can use it yourself, give it as a gift to friends or family or donate it to charity. 

We thank you sincerely for helping the Festiva Adventure Club continue to move forward and promise you we will do our absolute best to provide to you the highest quality resort and vacation experiences in the coming months and years! 

Sincerely, 
Festiva Adventure Club


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## ChrisH

*WARNING: DM Marketing is now selling Festiva in MA (Southcape)*

DM Marketing 
14100 US HWY 19 N #136 
Clearwater, FL 33764

Use this link to see the whole promotion page
http://www.dmmarketing.net/maletter.html

Festiva Resorts Welcome Center
950 Falmouth Rd
Mashpee, MA 02649
2 forms of identification are required at check in: a drivers license and a major credit card (note: debit cards not accepted)
You will receive the following complimentary gifts following your presentation:
$50 Mashpee Commons Gift Card
3 Day/ 2 Night Hotel Stay in choice of over 34 destinations
$25 Dining Dough
If you have any questions please call 866-409-2395.


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## ChrisH

*Check craigslist for Festiva sales JOBS! $8/hr or $175 commission!*

From capecod craigslist:


*Resort Marketing Rep/OPC no exp necessary (Mashpee, Ma)*

Festiva Adventure Club is seeking Off "_Premisses_" Contacts to operate _"out"_ Tourist Information Centers and Marketing Functions. 

Must NOT be shy and _*maintain a pleasant and approachable *_personality. 

$8 Min or Commission. 

Full Time Part Time Evenings Nights Weekend Shifts are all available 

No "_experince_" necessary* Training provided 

We are an equal Opportunity Employer 

Forward resume to this job list posting or call carlos 774-521-3741 

Location: Mashpee, Ma 
Compensation: $175 per tour "_o_" $8 hr

Evidently _spelling_ ability is not required


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## Sou13

*Get in on this discussion!*



ChrisH said:


> MA House Bill 4496
> 
> MA legislators are making corrections in MGL 183B - specifically addressing defaults on maintenance and assessment fees, making the process easier to foreclose on those delinquent accounts.
> 
> 
> While this bill is beneficial in making it easier for those in financial straits to forfeit their unit for resale, it also gives developers the opportunity to buy and or sell large blocks of units by auction in a resulting takeover from the existing Owner's Association.
> 
> *At Sandcastle in Provincetown, the current management has stated *at the annual meeting that our units recouped via this new procedure or small claims court, will be offered 'in bulk' at auction - so members of the existing owners association will NOT be able to buy additional units unless purchased in '100 unit' blocks - therefore essentially allowing for developers like *Festiva in our case*, to overtake the units and gain majority control.
> 
> Also, a bulk sale or auction sale will not necessarily bring the owners association realistic sums of money for prime weeks. Fifty or 100 units sold at in bulk $1000 a piece, prevents most individuals from purchase and allows prime weeks to be sold at significant bargain prices, hurting owners associations financially.
> 
> Every MA timeshare owner needs to write to their representative requesting that House Bill 4496 be changed to allow your resort OWNERS ASSOCIATION to have the final say on how reclaimed units are sold and or handled.  If you don’t live in MA but own a timeshare in MA, write to the representative in the district where your timeshare is located as you are a taxpayer there.
> 
> If you live in MA and own timeshare property in MA, write to both your local representative and the rep in your timeshare district.
> 
> 
> http://www.mass.gov/legis/bills/house/186/ht04pdf/ht04496.pdf


There is a discussion of the passage of this bill at http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1002376#post1002376

Sandcastle owners need to chime in on this discussion!


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## Time Out

*Auction*

Just curious as to how many people you think would attend an autction specifically for timeshare and actualy bid on a timeshare? I'm sure you can buy them from places like ebay for less money. Most H.O.A.'s will give their weeks away just to have another dues paying owner. Forget about the deliquency issue, if an H.O.A. could hire an aution company and sell their weeks for $1 most would do it.


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## Sou13

ChrisH said:


> MA House Bill 4496
> 
> MA legislators are making corrections in MGL 183B - specifically addressing defaults on maintenance and assessment fees, making the process easier to foreclose on those delinquent accounts.
> 
> 
> While this bill is beneficial in making it easier for those in financial straits to forfeit their unit for resale, it also gives developers the opportunity to buy and or sell large blocks of units by auction in a resulting takeover from the existing Owner's Association.
> 
> *At Sandcastle in Provincetown, the current management has stated *at the annual meeting that our units recouped via this new procedure or small claims court, will be offered 'in bulk' at auction - so members of the existing owners association will NOT be able to buy additional units unless purchased in '100 unit' blocks - therefore essentially allowing for developers like *Festiva in our case*, to overtake the units and gain majority control.
> 
> Also, a bulk sale or auction sale will not necessarily bring the owners association realistic sums of money for prime weeks. Fifty or 100 units sold at in bulk $1000 a piece, prevents most individuals from purchase and allows prime weeks to be sold at significant bargain prices, hurting owners associations financially.
> 
> Every MA timeshare owner needs to write to their representative requesting that House Bill 4496 be changed to allow your resort OWNERS ASSOCIATION to have the final say on how reclaimed units are sold and or handled.  If you don’t live in MA but own a timeshare in MA, write to the representative in the district where your timeshare is located as you are a taxpayer there.
> 
> If you live in MA and own timeshare property in MA, write to both your local representative and the rep in your timeshare district.
> 
> 
> http://www.mass.gov/legis/bills/house/186/ht04pdf/ht04496.pdf


http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showpost.php?p=921833&postcount=204

When I launched the discussion "Contact the Speaker of the Massachusetts House" I didn't see anything wrong with it, either, but was soon corrected by the Sandcastle owners who attended their annual meeting!


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## Sou13

*"Declaration of Trust" filed October 13, 2010*

Found in BOOK 24904 PAGE 224:

New England Vacation Services has found a new way to cash in on the Sandcastle weeks purchased from Barth and Woods on 9-4-2009 (BOOK 23138 PAGE 109) now that the Southcape weeks have been sold to Festiva Development Group for $1 million.

A new scheme of "float weeks" will garner greater maintenance fees depending upon which weeks are sold as "float" weeks.  The schedule of 2010 maintenance fees is found in Exhibit B.  Some weeks cost more than $700 in annual MFs!

The developer/declarant has exempted himself from payment of MFs.

And at the end of 45 years, all weeks will revert back to the developer!

*Sandcastle owners, where are you?*


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## Conan

Can you please tell me what the above means to me?  As a new Sandcastle owner I'd appreciate being brought up to speed.

I own a summer 1-BR week at Sandcastle that I bought last year on Ebay.  Of course I would never pay to convert it to RCI Points.  I've just deposited the 2011 use into RCI Weeks.


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## JamesT RI

*What this means to you*

This will have no affect on what you own.


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## Sou13

Conan said:


> Can you please tell me what the above means to me?  As a new Sandcastle owner I'd appreciate being brought up to speed.
> 
> I own a summer 1-BR week at Sandcastle that I bought last year on Ebay.  Of course I would never pay to convert it to RCI Points.  I've just deposited the 2011 use into RCI Weeks.


It means that the Trustee has the right to occupy or utilize any of the unsold units in the Trust without having to pay maintenance fees on those units!

It means that the units committed to the Trust will revert back to the Declarant or successor(s) to the Declarant on the first Friday in January, 2059!

It means that any of the units in the Trust that are sold as "float" weeks have to be reserved in order to be used by the owner!

It means that Sandcastle owners need to know their rights as deeded interval owners!


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## JamesT RI

*Like I said*

Like I said it will have no affect on what you own. All your examples are of units you don't own. The developer can do what they wish with their inventory as can the HOA. Just like each and every individual owner can do as they wish with what they own.

By the way Sou13 what did you do with your week at Sandcastle?


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## Sou13

*I don't own a week at Sandcastle*

JamesT RI,

You must have me confused with someone else.  I don't own a week at Sandcastle, I'm a Southcape owner who became aware of what's happening at Sandcastle when NEVS bought the unsold inventory of Sandcastle and Southcape and combined the two resorts into one $2.5 million mortgage.

My interest in what NEVS is doing at Sandcastle is from the perspective of what Festiva intends to do at Southcape.  Festiva Development Group is not selling any of the more than 560 unsold Southcape weeks purchased from NEVS.  Will Festiva draw up a Declaration of Trust for the Southcape weeks similar to the NEVS Declaration of Trust for the Sandcastle weeks?


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## JamesT RI

*I guess I am confused*

Why do you care what someone does with the weeks they own? Why are you trying to use scare tactics on Sandcastle owners like myself with your opinions instead of facts. Have you taken the time to actually call Sandcastle and talk to someone in charge and have them explain what they are doing and why? I did and I was quite suprised. Why do you care what they paid? I dont understand your motives. I went to the Sandcastle Resort and I noticed huge improvments, granted I helped pay my fair share as I do own a share. I have owned there for many years and nothing has changed with the new developers other than we had a special assessment and they are fixing up my property. I personally think its a good thing. 

If you had been there more than 2 years ago the place was pretty much falling down. The railings were so bad I was afaraid to lean against them. I did not like the special assesment, however I am a realistic person. If you fail to properly maintain any structure, at some point you will have to spend a little money to fix it up. Its no different with a home or even a condo in Florida. I was very scared of change at first, now two years later, I am seeing the improvements and none of my benefits have been altered. I am a lot less skeptical. I will have to see what the future holds and hopefully they will keep making the necessary improvements to my property. 

If you don't know whats going on, please don't make your assumptions as facts. I would not dream of scaring owners at other resorts that I do not own. As a matter of fact, what do I care what some resort does that I have no ties to? Why do you? Doesn't make any sense. Then again what does make sense these days. Just my personal thoughts.


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## Sou13

I should have included the link to the document found in BOOK 24904 PAGE 224 of the free public access to the Barnstable County Capeview Internet Access.

To view the document, you need to first set your viewing/printing preference at the bottom of the main menu. 

Forewarned is forearmed.


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## Classylassy523

*Sancastle owner going to court*

Four years later and the struggle continues. The Brennan family (deeded owner) has a court date.

*Brennan vs. Hagberg. August 9, 2012 at the Orleans District Court, 237 Rock Harbor Road, Orleans, Massachusetts*.

Tom Mitchell, another deeded Sandcastle owner will be at the resort that week and will be attending. He has asked that I post this and if there is anyone who will be at the resort or in the area that week and would like to attend the court hearing to contact him and he will be glad to provide transportation.

Tom Mitchell ... Week 31, Unit 220. You can reach him via email: tominspfld@gmail.com or cell phone: 860-989-5685


Mr. Brennan's description of the case:

Summarization of Case: developer doesn't pay its share and this inflates your cost, Sandcastle Resort is a sole propreitorship of Hagberg that doesn't follow the common area percentage and commingles trust funds... and defalcations (who pays the developer share? property taxes?) fraud (billings and financial summaries and letter responses to questions), constructive fraud (Festiva), conspiracy to commit larceny (repeated overbilling, ignoring off season week half share, special assessment illegal and unlawful) mail fraud (Festiva, annual assessments not according to common area percentage, 1 response letters says Intercity pays same as every owner (lies) - all enabled by the trickery of it being an investment contract with an approval process of sending a bill and receiving a check (the approval)

Extortion: as a "holder" of information, that makes the collector of the money an official agent, so demanding more money and getting it as the owner fears personal damage to their credit rating is extortion by Mass. law definition - if Sandcastle Resort is not delegated this authority, then they cannot collect the taxes, can they? I am sure this topic will be seriously argued, but if they win that idea they are not delegated agents of the trusts' trustees, then surely its a sole propreitorship based on the business name certificate filing, therefore the one who must pay will be Hagberg PERSONALLY, which was the point...

Aiding and abetting breach of fiduciary duty: this and Chapter 230 section 5 enables a beneficiary to sue any and all third parties who are screwing the trusts...

All I have to prove is that they knew it. It's hard to pretend Hagberg didn't know when he is trustee, developer, managing entity, and Sandcastle Resort (still not sure what the demarcations of when each position starts and stops and what each one actually does -since Hagberg claims all the contracts are private)


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## NEVMSLLC

*Sandcastle Owner Going to Court*

The case was dismissed.


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## ChrisH

*Sandcastle MORE SPECIAL ASSESSMENTS - VOTE!*

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The management at Sandcastle/Royal Coachman sent out letters about 2 weeks ago with 

Another Special Assessment that will be due this January 1, 2013;

AND 6 more pages of additional proposed Special Assessments; 

with a BALLOT for approval/disapproval. 

The total, if all are approved, will amount to approximately $1152 per unit owned.

The ballots are due back to Sandcastle by October 15th. There will be a meeting at Sandcastle on October 20th to discuss the results.

I have heard from owners who did not receive this mailing - letter or ballot - at all. 
If you are among them, then you need to call the resort at 508.487.9300 or visit www. Sandcastlecapecod.com and use the Contact Us link to inform management that you do not have any BALLOTS for your unit(s).

All owners should be voting.


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## Classylassy523

*Re-establish Sandcastle Owners Association*

Are you an owner at Sandcastle Resort and Condominium in Provincetown, MA? 

There is a group of owners trying to re-establish the Owners Association. 

With this latest go-round of proposed Special Assessments planned over the next three years, it is imperative that owners group together and do something to have a meaningful say about what happens at our resort. 

Management has repeatedly refused access to the owners list at the resort even though the Deeds and Trusts clearly state that owners are to be provided with the list when a request is made. I have previously posted this request on the Sandcastle Resort Facebook page but it was removed in a matter of hours. I also submitted a written request to post this on the Owners/Members secure section of the resort website (supposedly the area where owners can communicate) but have received no response from management. For these reasons I am turning to TUG and other media to get the word out to Sandcastle owners.

If you are going to the meeting at the resort that is scheduled for October 20, 2012, at noon, you can contact me there. If you are unable to attend the meeting and are interested in re-establishing the Owners Association, or if you don't want to wait for the meeting you can contact me through TUG. 

FYI ... I have checked with the resort office staff and questioned how the ballots would be handled. I was told that the Office Manager would count the ballots (she works for the owners) and then the ballots would be turned over to Cliff Hagberg (he owns the management company). I asked how possible ties would be handled, especially with the multiple choice questions and was told that that was unknown at that time. When I asked if there would be a separate company responsible for verifying and certifying the count ... I was that there was not. These ballots represent approximately $3 million and could mean a total of $1,200.00 in assessments for each unit. With this amount of money coming directly out of the pockets of deeded owners, a verified/certified ballot count is very important.

Thank you,
Jean Gallant
Deeded Owner
Week 40


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