# Transferring points from one member to another



## Cyberc (Apr 7, 2018)

hi tuggers. 

I recently posted a thread on Facebook with info about me canceling a reservation and offered another member to coordinate so they could pick it up. 

I got in contact with a member which was interested and which had been in contact with member services and they recommended that A guest certificate was issued in their name and then member services would transfer same amount of points from their account to my account. 

Have anyone tried transferring points to someone else account before? Is there any risk for me as the receiver involved?
I would expect the transaction to be final and not reversable ?

Regards.


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## Mosescan (Apr 7, 2018)

I’ve never heard of that with HGVC but that may explain the lady in the FB group trying to buy some points for a large family group stay. 

Let us know how it works out.


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## GT75 (Apr 7, 2018)

I have never heard of that and would be a little leery.    I would definitely want be talk with member's service.    I would think that they could cancel your reservation and book second party's reservation while on phone.


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## Cyberc (Apr 7, 2018)

Thanks. I’ll call member services tomorrow.


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## alwysonvac (Apr 8, 2018)

Please share what you find out.


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## Cyberc (Apr 8, 2018)

alwysonvac said:


> Please share what you find out.


I will. Called member services but they are closed on Sunday’s so I have to wait until tomorrow.


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## hurnik (Apr 9, 2018)

I saw the same FB post where someone insisted that they had transferred points to another member's account.

I could be wrong, but possibly EONS ago (like at least 10+ years ago)? you may have been able to do that via a three-way conf. call with Hilton.

However, IF that was doable, it was a long time ago and no more.

There's no transferring points (like Hilton Hotel's Point Pooling).

The only points transfer I'm aware of is if you buy another contract and the previous owner already paid their MF and has current year's points in the account, you can elect to reimburse the MF and get the points "transferred", as it were.


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## Talent312 (Apr 9, 2018)

_[Revised to follow new information below.]_


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## Cyberc (Apr 9, 2018)

So I have talked to member services and we can indeed do point transfers. Club counselor said “sure” as it was the most normal thing. We had a talk about the transfer and it’s a final transaction and can’t be reverted. There are no limitations to number of transfers and they are fee free(wonder for how long now that the secret is out)

Only requirement was that a 3way call was done with both members on the phone. 

The member transferring the points would have to inform the counselor about how many point from which year had to be transferred. 

The actual point transfer has not been done yet as this call was purely for information for my peace of mind. 

Now people are thinking the obvious, “can’t one member then sell his points to another member” short answer “YES”

Once the transfer is complete I’ll update you guys.


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## Mosescan (Apr 9, 2018)

I guess it’s no different then selling your DVC points. It would be better to sell the points you can’t use rather than save or convert to HH and would cover some of your maintenance fees. I wonder how much you could get?


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## Cyberc (Apr 9, 2018)

Mosescan said:


> I guess it’s no different then selling your DVC points. It would be better to sell the points you can’t use rather than save or convert to HH and would cover some of your maintenance fees. I wonder how much you could get?



I’m not buying just getting a transfer. But if I was a few points short I see why not.


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## Talent312 (Apr 9, 2018)

But it's not in the Rules! No fee?
_
Where will this lead?..._
-- Fire and brimstone coming down from the skies!
-- Rivers and seas boiling!
-- Forty years of darkness! Earthquakes, volcanoes...
-- The dead rising from the grave!
-- Human sacrifice, dogs and cats living together... mass hysteria!

(Source: Ghostbusters, 1984)


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## Cyberc (Apr 9, 2018)

Talent312 said:


> But it's not in the Rules! No fee?
> _
> Where will this lead?..._
> -- Fire and brimstone coming down from the skies!
> ...


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## 1Kflyerguy (Apr 9, 2018)

Interesting.  Could be similar Marriott points with the "rental" of points.  Of course Marriott is true trust, so everyone in the destinations program has the same MF per point. That makes it easy to establish the value or at least a floor to the rental rate.  

Personally the three way call will probably be enough of a hassle to discourage frequent use of this this.


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## Great3 (Apr 9, 2018)

Wow, I always thought this is wasn't allowed.  I know I read many things in the past where this wasn't available, so it's news to me.  Good News (I think).  Thanks for sharing the info.  Let us know when it's done, and how your experience went.

Great3


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## Seagila (Apr 9, 2018)

Cyberc said:


> So I have talked to member services and we can indeed do point transfers. Club counselor said “sure” as it was the most normal thing. We had a talk about the transfer and it’s a final transaction and can’t be reverted. There are no limitations to number of transfers and they are fee free(wonder for how long now that the secret is out)
> 
> Only requirement was that a 3way call was done with both members on the phone.
> 
> The member transferring the points would have to inform the counselor about how many point from which year had to be transferred.



I think something's amiss here.  If this were a benefit available to members, it would be in the rules.  I know it's offered in other systems like Marriott's DC points system and Worldmark, and both systems explicitly state this.

I too am curious to find out if the points can indeed be successfully transferred between two separate HGVC memberships outside of an outright contract purchase. And it's an unlimited benefit and fee-free to boot!?  Who would pay to save points, if there's a market for surplus points that develops from this?


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## GT75 (Apr 9, 2018)

Wow, I too didn’t know about this one and it isn’t in the rules.    Thanks for the update.     Keep us posted if you go through with the transaction and of course the outcome.


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## Talent312 (Apr 9, 2018)

Perhaps this option could be added to the HGVC advice article.
... After an actual transaction is confirmed.
.


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## Juxtapose (Apr 10, 2018)

Weird, this surprises me and I'm curious to hear how easy this transfer is.  I mean, I'm the owner of points that I pay 29.7 cents of MF on each (yuck) and it's a small allotment (just 2200). I'm currently looking for more points to use in the short term (another 3,000 to 5000 a year), but after studying the rates I'd really like to get them for 15 cents a point or less. So I'm waiting on the resale market to get what I want. This kind of transaction creates an opportunity:

There are probably people out there paying well under that 15 cents a point who would make a profit selling me their unused points at that rate. Win-win... without a need to go buy a new contract and be obligated to a yearly allotment.


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## Juxtapose (Apr 10, 2018)

whoops... accidentally quoted myself when I meant to edit my post above to correct a typo


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## Talent312 (Apr 10, 2018)

Juxtapose said:


> whoops... accidentally quoted myself when I meant to edit my post above to correct a typo



Quite alright. I once accidentally blocked myself (another BBS).
Then I wondered why my posts were disappearing.
.


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## hurnik (Apr 10, 2018)

Cyberc said:


> So I have talked to member services and we can indeed do point transfers. Club counselor said “sure” as it was the most normal thing. We had a talk about the transfer and it’s a final transaction and can’t be reverted. There are no limitations to number of transfers and they are fee free(wonder for how long now that the secret is out)
> 
> Only requirement was that a 3way call was done with both members on the phone.
> 
> ...



Thanks for the info.  It seems the information varies, and may involve a HUCA to get an agent who knows about it, because (if one believes some of the FB posts) others had called and were told no, cannot do that.

But good to know that the old 3-way conf. call is still there and it's fee free.


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## MikeinSoCal (Apr 10, 2018)

So, where's the site that I can bartering?


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## Cyberc (Apr 11, 2018)

Small update. 

The other member which should have transferred the points to me have backed out, as she is no longer able to use my reservation. 

As I find this rather interesting I will continue to pursue the option of transferring points, even a small amount just to get it verified. 

i'll keep you guys updated.


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## Cyberc (Apr 11, 2018)

One thought just came to mind. If some one is up for it we could transfer points between our accounts?

ie. Someone transfer 1.000 points to my account. I'll then transfer 1.000 points back.

if so I think two 3-way calls would have to be done.

Just a thought.


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## Arimaas (Apr 11, 2018)

Cyberc said:


> One thought just came to mind. If some one is up for it we could transfer points between our accounts?
> 
> ie. Someone transfer 1.000 points to my account. I'll then transfer 1.000 points back.
> 
> ...



I have  20 left over points for 2018 you can have for the test. Just gonna let them expire so I don’t even want them back if you have a use for them.


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## Cyberc (Apr 11, 2018)

Arimaas said:


> I have  20 left over points for 2018 you can have for the test. Just gonna let them expire so I don’t even want them back if you have a use for them.


Sounds great. Could you pm me your calling details and when you have time for a 3way call. 

Appreciate it.


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## Tamaradarann (Apr 11, 2018)

Cyberc said:


> So I have talked to member services and we can indeed do point transfers. Club counselor said “sure” as it was the most normal thing. We had a talk about the transfer and it’s a final transaction and can’t be reverted. There are no limitations to number of transfers and they are fee free(wonder for how long now that the secret is out)
> 
> Only requirement was that a 3way call was done with both members on the phone.
> 
> ...



That brings to mind the issue of HOW MUCH ARE POINTS WORTH?   That has been discussed briefly in another tread on this site "Hotel Harvest in Japan" where another member mentioned 4200 points being valued at $630 using the average maintenance fee cost method; and I mentioned that they would be valued by me as a few thousand dollars using the cost of a hotel room for a couple of weeks since 4200 points is about 2 weeks in a studio in the HGVC system.  I would certainly buy the 4200 points at the $630 price.  I wouldn't sell my points for that amount.


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## PigsDad (Apr 11, 2018)

Yeah, I would want to make a decent profit if I were to sell any points.  Since mine cost me about $0.16/point, I would be looking for at least $0.25/point since there are many properties/weeks where the MF is more than that.  Otherwise it wouldn't be worth the hassle, IMO.

Kurt


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## Tamaradarann (Apr 12, 2018)

PigsDad said:


> Yeah, I would want to make a decent profit if I were to sell any points.  Since mine cost me about $0.16/point, I would be looking for at least $0.25/point since there are many properties/weeks where the MF is more than that.  Otherwise it wouldn't be worth the hassle, IMO.
> 
> Kurt


OK, now you bring up another perspective, how much would be enough for you to be interested in selling your points.  The $.25/point price would make 4200 points cost $1050.  While that is considerable above the $630 value is considerable above what was stated on the other site it is much lower than the couple of thousand dollar price that I value them at.  Perhaps you price is a good middle of the road.  However, there are other ways to look at ithis.  If you are going to lose your points since you have no vacation plans and don't want to or can't save them any more getting $630 is great!  However, if you use your points for great vacations every year and value each and every point even $2000 may not be enough for the 4200 points.  I am in the latter category since I would value the 4200 points to me at about $4000 or priceless since I use them for vacations each year that most people would consider vacations of a lifetime.


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## hurnik (Apr 12, 2018)

Tamaradarann said:


> That brings to mind the issue of HOW MUCH ARE POINTS WORTH?   That has been discussed briefly in another tread on this site "Hotel Harvest in Japan" where another member mentioned 4200 points being valued at $630 using the average maintenance fee cost method; and I mentioned that they would be valued by me as a few thousand dollars using the cost of a hotel room for a couple of weeks since 4200 points is about 2 weeks in a studio in the HGVC system.  I would certainly buy the 4200 points at the $630 price.  I wouldn't sell my points for that amount.



Depends.
Some folks value their points strictly based on their MF which is going to vary quite a bit depending on where/when you bought (in terms of size, etc.).

Others will fold in their initial purchase price (probably amortized) over 10, 15, 20 years, so that's another factor.

Still others will value it based upon the market.  For example, 4,800 points for an "off season" in Orlando will be "worth" far less than 4800 points at HHV Lagoon Tower in January.

And I see others will value it on an "average" vacation (ie, if I were to not own and I had to pay cash to stay at HHV it'll cost me, $X/night so that's how much my points are worth).

Unfortunately there's no correct or same answer.

I might be willing to "sell" points for $0.20, others might want more.  (I'm just using this as a hypothetical here).
I'd say the very least, some portion above the price/point (calculated by MF) is the "basement floor" for things.

But like all things in the free market, it's a supply and demand.  How much are you willing to pay for something, etc.


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## Juxtapose (Apr 12, 2018)

As you said, is where supply and demand comes in, or simple market forces... with enough trading (volume) you find the middle ground.  That is, people fall into one of two categories on a spectrum...
A) People willing, motivated and able to sell 4200 points for $X
B) People unwilling, uninterested, or unable to sell 4200 points for $X

$X represents a moving value where about half are above (in A) and half are below (in B). Supply and demand shifts that line up and down... but it'll sit somewhere between $630 and a few thousand most of the time depending on how heavy either side of the fence is at the moment.

If only a market existed for this kind of thing... we'd be able to see very quickly how much points are worth at any given time of the year based on that moving $X value


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## Talent312 (Apr 12, 2018)

I can't see HGVC letting this go on w/o imposing a fee at some point.
It is, after all, a form of point-stretching. 
.


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## 1Kflyerguy (Apr 12, 2018)

Talent312 said:


> I can't see HGVC letting this go on w/o imposing a fee at some point.
> It is, after all, a form of point-stretching.
> .



I agree.  Not to mention that renting your points is really an end-run around the rule on only renting your home week.


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## Cyberc (Apr 13, 2018)

hurnik said:


> But like all things in the free market, it's a supply and demand.  How much are you willing to pay for something, etc.



I agree, its all supply and demand.

Should I buy points they would be worth what I pay in MF + a smaller premium. I know I might pay less in MF than most others but that just how it is. IMHO is better to get some of the MF recovered than loosing your points if you can't use them. I dont see my self paying anywhere close to 0.25$ per point well maybe if I rented NYC points. 

In my book 7.000 points is worth around $8-900. If the points had kept home resort booking priority then they could have been worth some more.

You could ofc just book a vacation and then rent that, honestly I dont know how easy that is - maybe if you had a very high demand week it would be doable. But if you booked 7 days in Orlando I dont see it renting. Dont get me wrong Orlando is great but its also packed with timeshares. Maybe a vacation at Hawaii is rentable but I dont know.

I've tried renting my 2br in Vilamoura for slightly more than my MF but there was no takers. 

So again your points are only worth what people are willing to pay for them.


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## Tamaradarann (Apr 13, 2018)

Cyberc said:


> I agree, its all supply and demand.
> 
> Should I buy points they would be worth what I pay in MF + a smaller premium. I know I might pay less in MF than most others but that just how it is. IMHO is better to get some of the MF recovered than loosing your points if you can't use them. I dont see my self paying anywhere close to 0.25$ per point well maybe if I rented NYC points.
> 
> ...



If one were to sell points I totally agree with the final statement in your post "... points are only worth what people are willing to pay for them.  Another factor that effects points value is the year of the points and if they are saved points from a prior year and can't be saved again or used for say 2019.  I have no further vacation book plans for 2018 so if points can't be used in 2019 or beyond they would be of no use to me.


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## PigsDad (Apr 13, 2018)

Cyberc said:


> In my book 7.000 points is worth around $8-900. If the points had kept home resort booking priority then they could have been worth some more.


7000 points will get you a 2BR for a week during Platinum season at many resorts.  I would think that is worth more than $8-900 to most people -- maybe not in Orlando, but certainly at many of the other resorts.  But if you could get someone to sell you points for that price, more power to you!

If all I could get is $8-900 for 7000 points and I couldn't use them for a HGVC reservation, I would seriously consider converting them to Honors points.  I could get more value out of them that way vs. selling them.

Kurt


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## JohnPaul (Apr 16, 2018)

So...did the experiment happen?  Were you able to transfer?  Sometimes I'm 50 or 100 points short to be able to do what I want.  This would be a nice option.


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## Cyberc (Apr 17, 2018)

Update. 

We did have the 3-way call today and....... it was a success 

It took a few minutes and I received the points in my account. However it seems to be luck of the draw as I had to call twice, the first club counselor said it wasn’t possible so I hung up and called back - I would take no for an answer 

The second counselor said sure, I asked if he could start the 3-way call, he couldn’t. So I initiated the 3way call with Arimaas and hgvc.

Any thoughts?


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## MikeinSoCal (Apr 17, 2018)

So, how does HGVC validate who is on the phone?  If you're initiating the call, are you exposing your personal information to HGVC on the 3-way call?  Because if so, you'd have to be able to trust the other party with your personal info.
Thanks.


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## Cyberc (Apr 17, 2018)

MikeinSoCal said:


> So, how does HGVC validate who is on the phone?  If you're initiating the call, are you exposing your personal information to HGVC on the 3-way call?  Because if so, you'd have to be able to trust the other party with your personal info.
> Thanks.



Yes once the 3rd part is on the call he/she will need to give the member number to hgvc and then verify the account. So I agree it takes trust.


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## Arimaas (Apr 17, 2018)

Cyberc said:


> Yes once the 3rd part is on the call he/she will need to give the member number to hgvc and then verify the account. So I agree it takes trust.



Didn’t even think of that. Lol. Now you know my favorite color. Lol


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## MikeinSoCal (Apr 17, 2018)

What?  HGVC knows my favorite color?


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## Sandy VDH (Apr 17, 2018)

You set up 5 various security questions and answer them.  To verify your identity HGVC asks you one of the questions and verifies your answer. 

I think they must be ordered but I usually get the first one on my list nearly all the time.


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## Tamaradarann (Apr 17, 2018)

MikeinSoCal said:


> So, how does HGVC validate who is on the phone?  If you're initiating the call, are you exposing your personal information to HGVC on the 3-way call?  Because if so, you'd have to be able to trust the other party with your personal info.
> Thanks.



I agree, I wouldn't want to give my personal information to another party.  Furthermore, why does the person who is receiving the points have to be involved in the call at all.  If a person wants to deposit points into my account they can do so anytime they want.  I can always use more points.  Of course, the person who is depositing needs to know my account number.  I get Hawaiian Airline points from others in my family with their just knowing my account number.


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## JohnPaul (Apr 17, 2018)

Well....I think the concept is not that you are sharing points with a stranger but doing something for a friend.  As such the trust shouldn't be an issue.  I doubt that ability was set up for people to sell their points.


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## CalGalTraveler (Apr 17, 2018)

I am sure you can also change your security questions after the call.


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## hurnik (Apr 18, 2018)

If my sister's HGVC gifting purchase goes through, this would be a nice feature to have if either one of us needs to borrow some points, or use my SFX account.


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## Cyberc (Apr 18, 2018)

JohnPaul said:


> Well....I think the concept is not that you are sharing points with a stranger but doing something for a friend.  As such the trust shouldn't be an issue.  I doubt that ability was set up for people to sell their points.



I agree to this, and if you feel it’s a risk you have two options either don’t do it or change your security questions before or after the call. If you do it before you can afterwards revert back to your original answers. That’s what I would
Do.


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## Arimaas (Apr 18, 2018)

I actually wouldn’t be too too concerned. It’s not like the points are going to some random person without an identity. Even if someone were to go in a steal my points, HGVC knows exactly who’s account they are going into. They have that persons information, including home address and probably the ability to back the points right out. Most of us seem to be pretty well intrenched in our HGVC accounts. I think we would notice anything fishy to the accounts pretty quickly. That being said, I’m not looking to sell points to a random person off of eBay or anything, but I’m not too worried about sending off some extra points to someone. In 2019 it’s going to look like I will have 200 extra points. Rather give them away to a fellow a TUGer that can use them instead of letting them expire (not worth the cost to turn them into HHonors points IMHO).


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## Tamaradarann (Apr 19, 2018)

JohnPaul said:


> Well....I think the concept is not that you are sharing points with a stranger but doing something for a friend.  As such the trust shouldn't be an issue.  I doubt that ability was set up for people to sell their points.



I think you have something there.  The ability was set up so you could share your points with a friend or relative.  Not so you could sell your points.  Therefore, sharing your password should NOT be an issue.


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## Cyberc (Apr 20, 2018)

Tamaradarann said:


> I think you have something there.  The ability was set up so you could share your points with a friend or relative.  Not so you could sell your points.  Therefore, sharing your password should NOT be an issue.


I wonder how many now starts to either sell points or buy points because of this


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## hurnik (Apr 23, 2018)

Cyberc said:


> I wonder how many now starts to either sell points or buy points because of this



And unfortunately I think HGVC will stop allowing us to do this probably because of this as well.


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## Arimaas (Apr 23, 2018)

hurnik said:


> And unfortunately I think HGVC will stop allowing us to do this probably because of this as well.



Or charge a fee for it. If they can make money off of doing it, why do they care where thr points go?


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## Cyberc (Apr 25, 2018)

hurnik said:


> And unfortunately I think HGVC will stop allowing us to do this probably because of this as well.





Arimaas said:


> Or charge a fee for it. If they can make money off of doing it, why do they care where thr points go?



I can see this going either way. Why buy more points direct or resale for that matter if you can get a transfer.  If HGVC sees a "market" for transfers then they will charge a fee.


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