# Bought Welk Resort 1.5m points from developer for $127,000. Today is the last day for cancellation



## Sunnnnie (Dec 28, 2018)

Hi there!

I'm so glad I found this group! I'm a newbie to timeshare and I was been sold 1.5m Welk Resort points for $127,000 last week @ Northstar Lake Tahoe resort.

If you are an owner of 1.5m points, it would be the VVIP member - Pinnacle level with lots of benefits, such as a dadicated hotline, cheap upgration, longer booking window, etc.

I searched the secondary market and found only 2 offers for resale. 1 is $80,000, the other is around $110,000. I spoke with the agent and he told me he sold two similar this year, and the sales price was around $70,000 - $90,000.

From the Welk sales team told me, and I also found from the contract:

"Welk chooses to implement two significant contractual roadblocks when purchasing private party as a protection to all owners who purchase from the developer."

1.      First Right of Refusal in place, giving us the option but not the obligation to step in and remove a buyer.

2.      If a private party transaction is allowed to process through, as stated in the attached Buyers Acknowledgement – “I understand that should I transfer my Ownership to an heir or family member, the *Welk Platinum Rewards Loyalty*program and *Platinum Benefits Card* discount program will transfer. *However, if I sell my Ownership, these programs will not transfer to the buyer…”*

This means that the *ALL* Pinnacle Level Benefits would not be applicable to an owner who purchased on the secondary market. What's worse, not only the pinnacle but also all platinum benefit will go. Benefits such as points use, reservation window, bonus week RCI, points expiration, borrowing, and accrual would be different.

I will probably get back from a sales VP from welk and they might lower their developer price to keep me stay. Let's say it's down to $90,000.

Plus, annual VOA fee is around $5,800 this year, and with a 4% annual increase.

Why I'm buying the timeshare? I spent most of my weekends in winter at Northstar but never live in the welk ski-in-out hotel due to the expensive rental price. And also I love traveling and would like to spend more days in different destinations in the future with my lovely family. FYI, I don't have kids right now and don't have the plan to have kids in the next 5 years. I love luxury resorts and I spend around 10,000 per year traveling around.

My friends here, does it make sense to keep the ownership? Or I should just cancel the contract before it's too late?

Today is the last day to cancel, PLEASE HELP!!

If you have any experience with Welk, please share and I really appreciate all your help.


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## Passepartout (Dec 28, 2018)

Rescind! You can buy on the resale market for pennies on their dollars! Cancel while you can and the Post Office is open.  If it turns out that the deal you were offered, it will be available next week/month/year. Resale points are exactly the same as retail points. RESCIND! DO IT BY MAIL AND STAY FROM THE SALESROOM!

Jim


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## andysnovel (Dec 28, 2018)

I would never pay $127,000 for any timeshare, period. Follow the exact instructions and rescind ASAP. After you rescind, check the resale market, eBay, Redweek and see what the going rates are, check actual sales, not what the owners think it’s worth. Look into other timeshare brands, Vistana, Marriott, Hilton etc to see if the cover the areas you plan to visit!! RESCIND!!!!!


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## vacationhopeful (Dec 28, 2018)

Just rescind unless you won the Mega-Millions jackport last year.


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## T-Dot-Traveller (Dec 28, 2018)

If you have doubts - CANCEL today .

The deal will be there (later) - if you decide it makes sense to buy .

YOU only have TODAY to CANCEL .
Do it and do further research with no deadline .

*****
You need a dated stamped receipt from (USPS or similar) that shows you mailed it within the deadline,
so send - CERTIFIED. or  registered - return receipt AND keep a copy of everything for your records . 
( revised to Certified / as per next post )


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## vacationhopeful (Dec 28, 2018)

Certified Mail ... as registered mail is for valuable documents ... like bonds (and is expensive).

Certified Mail, Return Receipt. Send a 2nd copy REGULAR MAIL, too.

I send "Certified Mail, Regular Mail" as lawful letters all the time in my day job ... where I legally change the terms or conditions with contracts I have with different businesses and individuals.


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## dayooper (Dec 28, 2018)

Recind! As stated above, send your letter to the address in your packet through certified mail today. Make sure anybody who signed the contract signs the recession letter. Do not delay, get that letter in the mail today. 

They may try and call you with all sorts of outrageous things. They may tell you that you will be in trouble with the law, they will may give a sob story on how they need the commission money or they may try and sweeten the pot. With this in mind, don’t answer calls from them.

Once your recession is finalized, check out the resale market. Research the different systems and get something for a decent price.


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## Panina (Dec 28, 2018)

First welcome and congratulations, you found us in time to save your money. Rescind, don’t think about it any longer. 

Then start reading everything here on TUG and you will save the tens of thousands that you were going to spend and get what you need for pennies on the dollar on the resale market....and all the information to learn is here on tug free.  

If you want to show your support for this wonderful site you can get a full official membership for $15.


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## Passepartout (Dec 28, 2018)

Sunnnnie, they have fed you a bill of goods that this Pinnicle level has some special perks. Well, it does, but maybe with a value of a few hundred $$$, NOWHERE NEAR $127,000! What a sale like this would do is give the salesweasel a huge bonus check here at year's end. Expect a full court press to save this sale. PLEASE rescind by mail to save yourself the anguish. The instructions and address are in your contract. After that is done and you get back your down payment, come back. We can show you how to get those ski-out units for WAAAY less cost.

Have a happy trip to the Post Office, and a Happy New Year!

Jim


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## SmithOp (Dec 28, 2018)

Consider this also, they sold you something that has no value if you want to sell later, that clause #2 makes it worthless for resale if the benefits will not transfer.

We sincerely hope that A) you did not finance this and B) you RESCIND the purchase in time.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro


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## mjm1 (Dec 28, 2018)

We are former Welk owners. RESCIND IMMEDIATELY.

You should do more research about what system (Welk, Marriott, Hilton, Vistana, Disney, Diamond, Wyndham, etc) would be best for you. TUG is a great place to get a lot of great information.

While we enjoyed our Welk ownership while we had it, we found that we like Marriott and Vistana better for our needs. The offer you received will still be available to you later if you find that to be the best for you. 

Congratulations on finding TUG. RESCIND.

Best regards.

Mike


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## sue1947 (Dec 28, 2018)

Hopefully, you have already posted the rescind letter.  To put the finances in perspective, I traded into Northstar in early October for the equivalent of about $600 in maintenance fees and exchange fees for a 2 BR unit.  
I think if you pencil out those extra benefits, you'll find they are mostly smoke and mirrors.  They always give them a lofty name like Pinnacle (or platinum or elite etc depending on the system) to make you fee special, but there's really not much there.   Do more research to find out which system is best for you and then buy resale.
Sue


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## rickandcindy23 (Dec 28, 2018)

That is a lot of money to spend on something not worth the paper it is printed on.  

Contact TriWest in that area about a resale, if you like Welk properties.  The owner is a member of TUG.  

I think you should look at resale, maybe Hilton, maybe Westin or Marriott.  If you like the internal trading system, look at Westin Kierland resale for a great purchase that will cost you 10% of what you were going to spend on that purchase you were making.  Hilton can save you even more.  

So glad you found us in time.


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## Sunnnnie (Dec 28, 2018)

Thanks all for your reply!!

Update: I sent the cancellation letter today via certified mail with return notice.

I also faxed the letter since this is another way to cancel (Read from the contract)

I signed the purchase agreement on Dec 22nd, there is a 7 calendar days period to change your mind. Hopefully I can get all refund. 

Do I need to email the sales person and title officer for the cancellation? They sent me couple emails today regarding to the potential discount. They don't know I rescind today.


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## RX8 (Dec 28, 2018)

Sunnnnie said:


> Thanks all for your reply!!
> 
> Update: I sent the cancellation letter today via certified mail with return notice.
> 
> ...



Please do not email or call the salesperson. They will throw many lies at you hoping to save their commission.


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## RX8 (Dec 28, 2018)

This amount may be a record for being able to rescind in time.

I wouldn’t believe what the secondary market “agent” told you about this amount of points being sold for $70k to $90k on the resale market. That agent was probably affiliated with one of the listing companies who charge an upfront fee to list a timeshare on their website. They have zero interest in your timeshare being sold. They just want the upfront fee and will mislead a seller by trying to convince them their timeshare will sell for many times the actual value.

Case in point - There was 1.1M Welk Points that sold on eBay for $8500. Granted, not quite 1.5M but close enough and just 10 cents on the dollar from what the agent told you. That was one bid and was a best offer. That was probably a stretch even at that amount.

Congrats for saving $127,000.


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## Panina (Dec 28, 2018)

Sunnnnie said:


> Thanks all for your reply!!
> 
> Update: I sent the cancellation letter today via certified mail with return notice.
> 
> ...


Happy to hear you rescinded.  Timesharing has been wonderful for me and my family.  Once you learn all about it here, you will make an informed decision on what works best for you plus save lots of money.


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## T-Dot-Traveller (Dec 28, 2018)

Sunnnnie said:


> I signed the purchase agreement on Dec 22nd, there is a 7 calendar days period to change your mind. Hopefully I can get all refund.
> Do I need to email the sales person and title officer for the cancellation? They sent me couple emails today regarding to the potential discount. They don't know I rescind today.



Rescinding is your legal right . They are required to give the refund .

It is like returning a clothing purchase to a store - you have no need to give a reason ,
and no need to be in contact with the salesperson .

DO NOT CONTACT THE SALESPERSON


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## dayooper (Dec 28, 2018)

Sunnnnie said:


> Thanks all for your reply!!
> 
> Update: I sent the cancellation letter today via certified mail with return notice.
> 
> ...



The salesman are trained to get you to sign that contract. They will say anything to get you to sign and keep that contract. Don’t give them the opportunity to do so.


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## Passepartout (Dec 29, 2018)

YAAAAY Sunnnnie! You won!
It can take a bit of time to see your refund of the down payment. Consider sending back their promotional materials. Sometimes there is a charge for that stuff.

Once you get paid back, if still interested, check eBay and the TUG marketplace. Educate yourself about timeshares. Welk is good, but hardly the 'best of the best'. We suggest you rent a couple of times in the hotel branded TSs like Marriott, Hilton, Westin, Hyatt to be able to tell the difference. There are a couple of good, reputable brokers who are TUG members and won't put their profit over your cost. They also have experience getting their sales through Right of first Refusal which some developers use to prop up resale prices.

Welcome to TUG!

Jim


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## TUGBrian (Dec 29, 2018)

holy smokes i just saw this...127k...thats gotta be close to a record!  congrats!!!


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## Sunnnnie (Dec 29, 2018)

TUGBrian said:


> holy smokes i just saw this...127k...thats gotta be close to a record!  congrats!!!



I heard the resale Broker said currently there are two sellers selling 1.5m points from Welk. 

he said the seller bought the points from the developer at a price nearly $220,000


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## TUGBrian (Dec 29, 2018)

unreal


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## TUGBrian (Dec 29, 2018)

previous record i saw was a 66k marriott rescission back in 2013....

thats nearly double...incredible.


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## dayooper (Dec 29, 2018)

@Sunnnnie Check out what Tuggers are saying about each of the different systems in the Tug forums. So much knowledge there. Don’t forget Your Tug membership. The reviews are better than anywhere else on the net. 

Congrats again!


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## RX8 (Dec 29, 2018)

Sunnnnie said:


> I heard the resale Broker said currently there are two sellers selling 1.5m points from Welk.
> 
> he said the seller bought the points from the developer at a price nearly $220,000



One of the first things you will learn now that you are in the resale arena is that it doesn’t matter what someone originally paid direct for the timeshare. Original retail prices are full of developer profit, full of salesperson commissions and usually full of lies.  All that really matters is what the current resale value is, usually pennies on the dollar. Bad for original buyers, good for resale buyers but just the way it happens to be.

Now you can take your time (it took me a year after joining TUG before I made a timeshare purchase). As someone else suggested, rent a few different places to see what you like best. There are many options to rent from Tuggers. Check out the last minute rentals for bargains.


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## Marathoner (Jan 5, 2019)

More importantly, Northstar is not a very challenging or particularly interesting ski resort.  Much better to buy at a resort which will challenge you as you improve skiing-wise - such as Squaw Valley or Kirkwood!


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## LannyPC (Jan 5, 2019)

RX8 said:


> Please do not email or call the salesperson. They will throw many lies at you hoping to save their commission.



Especially on a purchase of $127,000.


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## JManteca (Jan 5, 2019)

Sunnnnie, we bought into the Welk system about 4 years ago on the resale market. We have 720K points per year and paid about $0.20 on the dollar from the retail cost. We stay at Northstar a couple times each winter (we live about 3 hours away). We are heading there in a couple weeks! The Northstar Lodge is Welk's best property, in my opinion. It was formerly a Hyatt fractional ownership resort, so it is a 5 star resort. We've been there at least 6 times and have enjoyed every visit. The staff are great. We have attended (2) sales presentations over the years and each ended with their best offer at $50,000 for 540K annual points. Their sales staff are very low pressure, I like those guys, but their price was always too high. I've been watching the websites and I have never seen a 1.5M point package. However, about once a year I see a 1.0M +/- package, so the large ones are out there, you just have to be patient and check regularly. My guess is that you'll find a large package for sale in the $15K to $20K range. I did try to buy a mid-range package and Welk exercised their ROFR so we lost it. But the second won we bought went through. And yes, the resale buyer gets the key benefits of Pinnacle like the extended booking window. 
If you like Welk, www.calresale.com is a great resource. You can email them and be notified of large packages that come up for sale before they hit the open market. Lastly, read everything you can on this website.


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## Sunnnnie (Jan 6, 2019)

Thanks friend! I love Northstar and I always spend 4 to 6 weekends there in winter time each year. 

From what I saw from the purchase agreement, benefits like extended booking windows for large points owners will not transfer to resale buyers.


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## JManteca (Jan 6, 2019)

If that is in fact the case, then you might have trouble booking One Village Place, but nothing else. I have gotten the weeks I have wanted every year at the Northstar Lodge when booking 12-15 months ahead.


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## Sunnnnie (Jan 7, 2019)

Thanks for sharing! I'll keep an eye on this. For 1.5m points, the annual VOA fee is around 6k


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## Guitarmom (Jan 7, 2019)

Hi Sunnnnie,

I think you did the right thing by rescinding. I'll tell you the story of how we became Platinum Select members, as it may be a way that you can back into both saving money AND getting Platinum Pinnacle benefits.

Over time, we bought three different Welk resale packages. 
1. $3,500: The first was a Villas on the Green 2BR lock-off, floating week package. I actually think this is the sweet spot of resale at Welk, as you can use it as two weeks, or trade one week in to RCI and kind of self-upgrade to a 2BR. I frequently traded in each 1BR with RCI for two 2BR units. I would laugh my way through owner's updates because my package was so much better than what they offered us.
2. $3,500: An aunt and uncle basically aged out of using their 240,000 Welk Platinum Points, and they sold the points to us.
3. $3,000: I saw a 2BR fixed week for Thanksgiving week on www.calresorts.com. With lots of relatives in Southern California, we decided it was precisely the fixed week we wanted.

In November 2018, we went to an owner's update. My husband point blank told the "owner updater" that we were there for them to roll all three of our contracts into one ... at no cost. The sales guy laughed out loud in a good-natured sort of way. By the end of our owner's update, we had rolled all three contracts into 780,000 Platinum Points, and with the yearly savings in Maintenance Fees, we will break even in less than a decade. My husband shook our sales guy's hand and said, "You did it. You rolled all three contracts into one and this will actually save us money in the long run."

Adding it all up, we became Platinum Select members for $17,000 total, spread out over time so that we were able to pay cash for each transaction and have never paid a penny in interest on these transactions. We've secured the equivalent of six 1BR units each year that work out to about $550/week in MF. A comparable hotel would cost about $1,300/week; we know, because we've paid that in the past.

Becoming Platinum Select Owners has proven, in three short months, to be invaluable. Our extended family in San Diego needed some extra help, and we have been taking advantage of our Platinum Select benefits to secure rooms right and left, always at the reduced point values. We would be kicking ourselves if we'd turned them down, and we'd be saying, "Oh, if only we had taken that Platinum Select deal." I admit to extraordinary and unforeseen circumstances, but this really has made our lives easier at a difficult time.

Netting it all out, if you want the Platinum Premier/Select/Elite/Pinnacle benefits, you can pick up cheap resale contracts here and there, then eventually "succumb to the pressure" at an owner's update and roll your contracts into one.

As I said before, you did the right thing by rescinding.


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## Sunnnnie (Jan 7, 2019)

Thank you so much for all the info!!! You're the first one I spoke with as a Welk member with extra benefit. I was wondering if the benefit worth the money and u just guide me the way. Thank you so much again!!!


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## macmanrider (Jan 7, 2019)

Years ago around 1995 I was in a elevator  in Waikiki Hawaii . Talking to my wife about going to the timeshare there. A older gentleman spoke and said how he went years ago and bought and someone at the resort told him he had one for sale. He told us he got his money back and now owns 8 weeks. In 2 different resorts. I keep that story with me and just bought my 2nd timeshare in tahoe for $20. And our 2 weeks in Mexico will be expired in 2030.


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## mjm1 (Jan 7, 2019)

Guitarmom said:


> Hi Sunnnnie,
> 
> I think you did the right thing by rescinding. I'll tell you the story of how we became Platinum Select members, as it may be a way that you can back into both saving money AND getting Platinum Pinnacle benefits.
> 
> ...



Thanks for sharing your story. If I understand correctly, Welk charged you $7,000 ($17,000 less the $10,000 you spent to buy your weeks) to convert to 780,000 Platinum points. Is that correct?

Thanks.

Mike


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## Guitarmom (Jan 8, 2019)

mjm1 said:


> Thanks for sharing your story. If I understand correctly, Welk charged you $7,000 ($17,000 less the $10,000 you spent to buy your weeks) to convert to 780,000 Platinum points. Is that correct?
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> Mike


Sort of. The conversion did cost $7,000, but one of our contracts was already 240,000 Platinum Points. If we'd had, say, three fixed week contracts or three Villas on the Greens, I'm not sure what they would have charged. Someone in another thread indicated he paid under $10,000 to convert three fixed weeks to PP. Also, in all fairness, the prices I mentioned do not include closing costs; I consider those just necessary overhead when dealing in real estate. Even with closing costs, we paid well under 20 cents per dollar compared to full developer prices.

Sent from my SM-T350 using Tapatalk


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## Sunnnnie (Jan 8, 2019)

Guitarmom said:


> Sort of. The conversion did cost $7,000, but one of our contracts was already 240,000 Platinum Points. If we'd had, say, three fixed week contracts or three Villas on the Greens, I'm not sure what they would have charged. Someone in another thread indicated he paid under $10,000 to convert three fixed weeks to PP. Also, in all fairness, the prices I mentioned do not include closing costs; I consider those just necessary overhead when dealing in real estate. Even with closing costs, we paid well under 20 cents per dollar compared to full developer prices.
> 
> Sent from my SM-T350 using Tapatalk



That's a great deal in my opinion. Congrats


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## Oscar923 (Jan 8, 2019)

JManteca said:


> Sunnnnie, we bought into the Welk system about 4 years ago on the resale market. We have 720K points per year and paid about $0.20 on the dollar from the retail cost. We stay at Northstar a couple times each winter (we live about 3 hours away). We are heading there in a couple weeks! The Northstar Lodge is Welk's best property, in my opinion. It was formerly a Hyatt fractional ownership resort, so it is a 5 star resort. We've been there at least 6 times and have enjoyed every visit. The staff are great. We have attended (2) sales presentations over the years and each ended with their best offer at $50,000 for 540K annual points. Their sales staff are very low pressure, I like those guys, but their price was always too high. I've been watching the websites and I have never seen a 1.5M point package. However, about once a year I see a 1.0M +/- package, so the large ones are out there, you just have to be patient and check regularly. My guess is that you'll find a large package for sale in the $15K to $20K range. I did try to buy a mid-range package and Welk exercised their ROFR so we lost it. But the second won we bought went through. And yes, the resale buyer gets the key benefits of Pinnacle like the extended booking window.
> If you like Welk, www.calresale.com is a great resource. You can email them and be notified of large packages that come up for sale before they hit the open market. Lastly, read everything you can on this website.




We love NorthStar in the summer and that was exactly the reason why we bought resale 240,000 Platinum points (so that we can stay there for 5 weekdays in the summer).  I have not followed the resale prices but the estimate by JManteca sounds about right.  1.5M points, assuming $0.01 - $0.015 per point, get you to a resale price of somewhere between $15,000 - $22,500.  You would save >$100,000 compared to the developer's price.


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## RunCat (Mar 7, 2019)

Two comments: Used to sell timeshares for SVO in Avon.  During the short time that I worked there, before they shut down in 2007 (before the Westin opened), I had sold to two different people, that then showed up either later that day or the next day to buy more,  only to rescind a few days later.  Everyone was shocked to see that it happened to me twice. Does not happen often.  
Everyone knows that the true cost of a purchased timeshare is about 50% of the retail price. Marketing, commissions, onsite perks cost 50% of the price. 
Congrats on rescinding.


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