# new wyndham RCI letter changes 01/15/2011



## jjking42 (Dec 15, 2010)

Dear JAMES KING,
Getting you on the vacation of your dreams is always our number one priority. While we hope that you'll find that perfect getaway with CLUB WYNDHAM® Plus, we know that you may wish to travel to destinations where we do not yet have a property. That's where the value of your Worldwide External Exchange Company, RCI®, becomes important.
I am pleased to share with you that you will soon be able to deposit points, search availability and book your RCI vacation online! And, with this new benefit, you will not only have access to all available inventory within RCI, but it will be displayed in your CLUB WYNDHAM Plus points currency making it even easier to book your exchange vacation.
Before these new online features become available, we want to take this opportunity to share some important program changes as it relates to depositing and booking online with RCI:

    * A minimum of 27,000 points will be required for each deposit with RCI. All deposits must be made in 1,000 point increments (For example, 27,000, 28,000, 29,000 or greater). Deposits with RCI will continue to be good for a two year period.

    * The points you deposit into your RCI account online will be available in your RCI account within 24 hours of your deposit request.

    * New VIP Benefit! If you are a Gold or Platinum Member, you will have the ability to search and book instantly without having to deposit points from your CLUB WYNDHAM Plus account to RCI.

As you may know, the CLUB WYNDHAM Plus resort collection has experienced great growth over the years, with more than 70 properties available to its members. To ensure that your exchanges are fair and equitable within the RCI exchange program, the points chart below has been updated to be more reflective of today's value. This change will go into effect in mid-January 2011; however, any deposits and exchanges that you have made but not yet traveled on will remain unchanged.





[/IMG]
Additionally, if you are a PlusPartners® Member, you will be able to book PlusPartners - RCI Nightly Stays online using the updated PlusPartners - RCI Nightly Stays Points Chart below.




When this new benefit launches in mid-January, you will be able to book your RCI vacation online by logging in to WyndhamVacationResorts.com, clicking on "My Membership" and choosing :"RCI Exchanges."
Look for additional information about this update to your exchange benefit in the "What's New" section of your Member home page. Or, should you have any questions, please call a knowledgeable Vacation Planning Counselor at 1-800-251-8736.
Sincerely,
Deanne Gabel
Senior Vice President, Club Management
CLUB WYNDHAMPlus

*This was the old chart. Big difference*






[/IMG]

*It will now takes 45% more points to deposit a 2 bedroom red*


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## Bourne (Dec 15, 2010)

jjking42 said:


> *It will now takes 45% more points to deposit a 2 bedroom red*



I may be wrong but they bumped it up to make it work like WorldMark/HGVC. It will let you see *all* inventory.


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## siesta (Dec 15, 2010)

a brave new world.

bourne, I'm with you.


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## Twinkstarr (Dec 15, 2010)

Bourne said:


> I may be wrong but they bumped it up to make it work like WorldMark/HGVC. It will let you see *all* inventory.



If that's the case, great.


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## puppymommo (Dec 15, 2010)

*I don't get it*

The letter says:
A minimum of 27,000 points will be required for each deposit with RCI. All deposits must be made in 1,000 point increments (For example, 27,000, 28,000, 29,000 or greater). Deposits with RCI will continue to be good for a two year period.

And yet, the new chart shows that the minimum number of points to get an exchange is 74,000 (quiet studio or one bedroom).  What am I missing?

To me this point inflation basically means that people with small points packages (I have 77k) will no longer be able to exchange into RCI.  Or it will no longer be worthwhile to do so.


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## Bourne (Dec 15, 2010)

Really bad at the bottom and really good at the top...

The days of 28/42/70 are gone. They were good while it lasted. On the flip side, 143/224 can see 1br/2br Disney/HGVC Hawaii which could not be done before even with 254. 

In other words, the bar has been raised. If you were stingy, you are out of luck. However, if you are willing to spend, you get a lot more that what you could get before. 

That is, if my assumption is correct.


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## markel (Dec 15, 2010)

Bourne said:


> Really bad at the bottom and really good at the top...
> 
> The days of 28/42/70 are gone. They were good while it lasted. On the flip side, 143/224 can see 1br/2br Disney/HGVC Hawaii which could not be done before even with 254.
> 
> ...



Bourne,

So can I assume that my 154K (which I have an ongoing search for a 2BR Orlando resort) may at some point after the change in mid-Jan see a 1 BR DVC resort for prime time??

And should I just forget about the 42K, 42K, 70K deposits that I just made the other day? Sounds to me like they are going to be worthless.

mark


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## Arnie (Dec 15, 2010)

*left-over points??*

Now what about the leftover deposits. will they be forwarded into the new system? IE: I have 2 28K deposits left over. Worse case senario, they will go POOF!! I know they say they will remain unchanged.


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## jjmanthei05 (Dec 15, 2010)

markel said:


> Bourne,
> 
> So can I assume that my 154K (which I have an ongoing search for a 2BR Orlando resort) may at some point after the change in mid-Jan see a 1 BR DVC resort for prime time??
> 
> ...



From what it sounds like the deposits that are already made are grandfathered in. So if you have invisible deposits, they will still be invisible and not on the new point chart. It looks like this should eliminate most of the "book and cancel" dance that people do at the end of their use year to get their remaining points to match the former point values. 

Jason


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## jjmanthei05 (Dec 15, 2010)

What this new chart looks like it does is limit the trading back into Wyndham. I looked at GC point chart (the resort we go to most often) and the only place that this would be a value strictly on points would be a 1 bedroom in high or prime. Every other category costs more points in RCI than it does booking Wyndham internal. Looks to be similar at BC only prime and high 1 bedroom and 2 bedroom High (by 5,000 points) and 2 bed prime is a push not counting any exchange fee that needs to be paid. 

Jason


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## Bourne (Dec 15, 2010)

markel said:


> Bourne,
> 
> So can I assume that my 154K (which I have an ongoing search for a 2BR Orlando resort) may at some point after the change in mid-Jan see a 1 BR DVC resort for prime time??
> 
> mark





> This change will go into effect in mid-January 2011; however, any deposits and exchanges that you have made but not yet traveled on will remain unchanged.
> mark



Sadly, no. Looks like the old ones will play with old rules. In other words, you can still access 11,12,14 TPU properties with a +2/3 margin if you are nice on the phone.


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## Dave55123 (Dec 15, 2010)

*hmmmm...*

Would it be worth depositing some 28k increments now?  

I understand they will be non-visible, but could be valuable if one is traveling to Orlando within the next 2 years.


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## paxsarah (Dec 15, 2010)

So, one could deposit several batches of points into RCI at various times to add up to one of the levels for a particular unit type? And if so, would there be a combine fee as there is to combine regular weeks/change back? Or would it just accrue as a point total in your account until it's spent?


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## Sandy VDH (Dec 15, 2010)

Is the exchange fixed, like HGVC.  What if the situation is that it is a last minute booking.  On RCI those points shoud diminish.  Do they diminish on the Wyndham point side to get that trade.  

So far I am not liking this new proposal.  As I use Wyndham for my low end trades.  I use HGVC for the higher level trades. 

Back to the drawing board.


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## bnoble (Dec 15, 2010)

> Is the exchange fixed, like HGVC. What if the situation is that it is a last minute booking. On RCI those points shoud diminish. Do they diminish on the Wyndham point side to get that trade.


I would assume not---this looks like a standard fixed crossover grid.

The part I don't yet understand is that most of the other systems' crossovers use RCI's blue/white/red designations as their seasons.  But, this chart has four seasons.  It will be interesting to see how they are determined.


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## EAM (Dec 15, 2010)

*Exchange fee still the same?*

I would not mind the point increases so much if the exchange fee had been eliminated.  I guess that is wishful thinking though..


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## hjtug (Dec 15, 2010)

Does anyone have any information or thoughts on whether the new chart will apply to Wyndham/II trading?


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## siesta (Dec 15, 2010)

paxsarah said:


> So, one could deposit several batches of points into RCI at various times to add up to one of the levels for a particular unit type? And if so, would there be a combine fee as there is to combine regular weeks/change back? Or would it just accrue as a point total in your account until it's spent?


 I would expect it to just accrue as a total in your account with no fee.  the question is: everytime you add a deposit, does it extend the life of the total points for 2 years, or does each deposit have an independent life span?


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## bnoble (Dec 15, 2010)

Guessing by reading between the lines: there would not be a "combine fee"---it would just be points.  But, each individual deposit would have its own "shelf life".


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## Trish839 (Dec 15, 2010)

An increase to exchange points does that mean an automatic increase in fees?


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## Sandy VDH (Dec 15, 2010)

bnoble said:


> I would assume not---this looks like a standard fixed crossover grid.
> 
> The part I don't yet understand is that most of the other systems' crossovers use RCI's blue/white/red designations as their seasons.  But, this chart has four seasons.  It will be interesting to see how they are determined.



Yes but in the old standard crossover grid depending on supply and demand and time to the exchange (45 days out) a 28K week could get nearly everything. 

In HGVC you get what you pay for, meaning, whatever the season and size of the unit, regardless of inventory or days to checkin, you pay the season and size price.  No discounts, no free upgrades.  

Even if you could get anything with a 74K deposit for last minute inventory, that is still nearly 3 times what it would cost in the Old system,


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## ausman (Dec 15, 2010)

In the "old" system we were privileged. Almost Robber Barons. I could get anything desired, outside of Jly & Aug, for a 28K or 42K deposit within Wyndham.

Prior to 2006 it was even better, not restricted to WYN.

It appears as if that advantage has been removed. A 2 BR in prime time @ 224 K points x say $5.50/K MF plus the RCI exchange fee puts it around $1,400 for a week and in this economy I could go Jly & Aug renting to my preferred places. Seems to be no internal privilege granted.

I kind of agree to an adjustment, we did have it better than "regular" owners. I think it would have been better implemented in a two stage step over a period of time and not done so drastically.


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## DrBopp (Dec 16, 2010)

Bourne said:


> Really bad at the bottom and really good at the top...
> 
> The days of 28/42/70 are gone. They were good while it lasted. On the flip side, 143/224 can see 1br/2br Disney/HGVC Hawaii which could not be done before even with 254.
> 
> ...


I am totally new to this, but it seems to me that part of this points inflation 
for exchanges is due to the cheap points being bought and sold on ebay and other places. In other words; you may be able to get points cheaper, but yoou are going to have to use a bunch of them to do anything. Make you want to lean toward using your points in the Wyndham unless you have no alternative or if you make a  choice to exchange, you have to select one or the other. Not both. Just my take on it.

Gordon


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## chriskre (Dec 16, 2010)

So with this change Wyndham has taken away any incentive for me to trade in RCI thus leaving them with less money from me for exchanges as I will just use my points internally or take my exchange business elsewhere.  

SFX is looking better all the time.


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## Jennie (Dec 16, 2010)

There was a lot of confusion re: a converted week I won on Ebay. It took many months for the deeding to be completed, and when I finally received the paperwork, Wyndham claimed that maintenance fees had not been paid on time so it had reverted back to being a fixed deeded week. 

The manager at our home resort offered to assist us in getting it re-instated into Points. But then I decided that the underlying week was more valuable to us than the Points because it is a 2 bdrm EOY at a prime resort in Pompano Beach that usually falls during President's week. We will most likely use it ourselves every other year. That was the reason we bought it in the first place. (We own fixed weeks at this resort during the two prior weeks). 

I was thrilled to have won this week on Ebay for a few dollars but was not looking forward to paying m/f at unusual times of the year, and having to figure out (and remember!) the specific timeframe to call and reserve the use of our own unit or get stuck with the Points that may or may not have gotten us desirable exchanges.

I was appalled at how shabbily the million-plus Points owners were treated.  The current rule changes and Point deflation further convince me that we did the right thing getting out of that system.

Trying to learn and then relearn all the rules and changes in the various Points systems is time-consuming, frustrating, and usually entails additional extra fees.

I'm so glad that I figured out years ago that the best path for us to take was to purchase back-to-back fixed weeks at timeshares we would be happy returning to each year. Having made over 100 exchanges since 1995 to timeshares all over the world, we are ready to relax at our "tried and true" fixed week timeshares (sans drama) and chant "been there, done that".  RCI," hit the road Jack". 

If we want a change once in awhile, the rent we can get for our weeks  would allow us to rent exactly what we want directly from another  timeshare owner and thus bypass RCI's never-ending rule changes, escalating fees, and dwindling inventory. They just don't get it!


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## bnoble (Dec 16, 2010)

> the old standard crossover grid


But it wasn't a "crossover grid" in the sense I'm using.  I'm using it in the sense that PlusPartners always has for Points---if you want a 1BR Red, it costs X Wyndham points.  Period.  Doesn't matter what the 1BR is, or where as long as it is "red"---could be Orlando in September, or could be Manhattan Club for New Years.  That's what this system looks like.  In contrast, in the old system, you never knew exactly what it would take to get any particular trade (well, for some you did---it was impossible).

I find myself thinking of this the same way that Mark is.  In the old system, if you could avoid the most in-demand resorts/times, you could get some good bargains in RCI.  In the new system, the super bargains are gone---and, while it was nice to trade back into Bonnet Creek in peak summer for a 42K week, it couldn't last forever.  

On the other side of the ledger, Wyndham now can exchange into anything in the spacebank.  You just have to decide whether it is worth it or not.  In some cases it will be.  I think the real question is going to be how they differentiate between High and Prime seasons.  Depending on that answer, the new crossover values are either okay, or not very good at all.


Jennie, I hear where you are coming from, but the *internal* system in Wyndham is actually surprisingly easy to use---and most people aren't using it strictly for their home week.  If the Wyndham portfolio of resorts can keep you occupied, owning Wyndham points and using internally is vastly superior to RCI.  Over the past year or two, I've been focusing on using Wyndham points internally for the most part, and using other things in RCI, and have been pretty happy going that route.



> it seems to me that part of this points inflation
> for exchanges is due to the cheap points being bought and sold on ebay and other places


I think they are completely independent.  The relatively poor Wyndham trade power can really be traced to deposit philosophy---and the trade power has been poor for as long as I've owned, this is just a different way of seeing its impact.  Wyndham doesn't deposit anything until about 8 months prior to use.  That gives owners a two month head start for booking things, and so the best resorts at the best times are gone by the time deposits are made---and, even if some inventory is left, if it looks like it will book up internally, it won't be deposited.  Essentially, Wyndham only sends the "leftovers" to RCI.  Naturally, those aren't the intervals that every non-Wyndham owner wants!  That's good and bad.  It's good for internal use, because it means you have first crack at the good stuff.  You should see the DVC owners howl when someone exchanges into, say, Beach Club during October's Food & Wine festival at Epcot months before most owners could ever book it internally.  But, it's bad for exchange, because our trade power is lower.

Ultimately, I will agree with Jennie that buying where you want to stay is the way to go with Wyndham.  But, "where you want to stay" in this case can be thought of as the entire portfolio of Club Wyndham Plus resorts.


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## jjmanthei05 (Dec 16, 2010)

What is going to be interesting to see is if Plus partners grid changes. If it doesn't, then the $2,500 seems like a bargain to still get the 28K for a studio in off season. Maybe this is how they get people to buy into the plus partner system. If a 2 bedroom red is still 154K through PP and 224 through RCI seems like a great value to me. 

Jason


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## Culli (Dec 16, 2010)

jjmanthei05 said:


> What is going to be interesting to see is if Plus partners grid changes. If it doesn't, then the $2,500 seems like a bargain to still get the 28K for a studio in off season. Maybe this is how they get people to buy into the plus partner system. If a 2 bedroom red is still 154K through PP and 224 through RCI seems like a great value to me.
> 
> Jason



I'm keeping my fingers crossed that the PP DOESN'T change!!!  However, that is why I tried to use it as much as I could and have theoritically recovered my $2500 and then some.  It is still nice to have access to both week and points inventory.  I have noticed that in weeks many 2brs in the areas I want seem to be more of the 1 br and studios.  I believe this is due to the large difference in TPUs a depoister gets for a lockoff deposit vs a 2br deposit?  Could be wrong but seems that RCI pts has more 2br where I want to go then weeks.


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## jjmanthei05 (Dec 16, 2010)

What may have you slightly concerned is after rereading the original post I found this line. 



> Additionally, if you are a PlusPartners® Member, you will be able to book PlusPartners - RCI Nightly Stays online using the *updated *PlusPartners - RCI Nightly Stays Points Chart below.



I wonder if PP will mirror the chart shown?

Jason


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## bnoble (Dec 16, 2010)

> What is going to be interesting to see is if Plus partners grid changes.


It is.  That second grid is the new PP exchange grid.


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## Sandy VDH (Dec 16, 2010)

jjmanthei05 said:


> What may have you slightly concerned is after rereading the original post I found this line.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



According to the email it most certainly will.

So now everything has a new higher price, but you can actually get things now and not be locked out.

Personally I am not happy, as I liked the cheap weeks.  I know, I know, change is inevitable, but that doesn't mean I have to like it.  It just means that I will use more in HGVC and less in RCI.


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## jjmanthei05 (Dec 16, 2010)

Sandy,

It looks like you have about a month to pool\book\cancel and deposit 28/42k deposits to stretch out the "cheap trades" for another couple years. In that instance at least this was posted before it was rolled out instead of "SURPRISE" here are the new point charts. 

Jason


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## regatta333 (Dec 16, 2010)

I wonder if VIP members will continue to get "unit size" upgrades for RCI white and blue season deposits.


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## Kozman (Dec 16, 2010)

Looks like there will be a lot more people with points left unused at the end of the use year since 28K is no longer an option.  If you have 73K left over you will need to book those within the Wyndham system if you can find something available.  Otherwise you donate them to Wyndham.


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## Culli (Dec 16, 2010)

bnoble said:


> It is.  That second grid is the new PP exchange grid.



????  I only see the updated grid (1st img) the 2nd img is the old grid.  I assume for PP that it will be the same as the weeks side deposit.  I might be missing the obvious right in front of me.  But even so I like the transperancy overall and ability to get what I want if its available instead of playing the game of hope any prayer.


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## learnalot (Dec 16, 2010)

Kozman said:


> Looks like there will be a lot more people with points left unused at the end of the use year since 28K is no longer an option.  If you have 73K left over you will need to book those within the Wyndham system if you can find something available.  Otherwise you donate them to Wyndham.




I believe you can still get 28K deposits at this point.  The changes will take place sometime mid-January from what the email said.


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## learnalot (Dec 16, 2010)

Culli said:


> ????  I only see the updated grid (1st img) the 2nd img is the old grid.  I assume for PP that it will be the same as the weeks side deposit.  I might be missing the obvious right in front of me.  But even so I like the transperancy overall and ability to get what I want if its available instead of playing the game of hope any prayer.



Culli,

Look at the email again.  The first grid will be the new grid for RCI weeks exchanges.  The second grid will be the new grid for Nightly Stay reservations available through Plus Partners.  The values differ slightly between the two grids, just as the current weeks exchange grid differs from the current Nightly Stays points grid.


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## bnoble (Dec 16, 2010)

> ???? I only see the updated grid (1st img) the 2nd img is the old grid.


Sorry.  When I said "that second grid" I meant the one in the email message Wyndham sent out, not the one posted at the beginning of this thread.  That has the same weekly values, but also breaks them down by weekend/weeknight.


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## jjmanthei05 (Dec 16, 2010)

Can someone forward a copy of the email to me. I don't think I ever got it. jason@mantheitechnologies.com. 

Thanks,

Jason


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## jjmanthei05 (Dec 16, 2010)

Kozman said:


> Looks like there will be a lot more people with points left unused at the end of the use year since 28K is no longer an option.  If you have 73K left over you will need to book those within the Wyndham system if you can find something available.  Otherwise you donate them to Wyndham.



It also looks like once this system is in place, you don't need to make deposits in the amount of the week values(ie 28,70,105 ect). In the original post it said you were able to make deposits at a minimum of 27,000 and 1,000 points increments above that. So at the end of a year if you have 39,000 points left you can deposit all of those points into RCI with 1 deposit. You wont be able to book anything without another deposit but you wont lose them. So if you found a prime 1 bedroom for 143,000 that you wanted, you would just make another RCI deposit of 104,000 to book it. It almost sounds like it works similar to the credit pool. You can put points in from different use years but once the are in the points "all the same"(except for when they expire).

Jason


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## Culli (Dec 16, 2010)

bnoble said:


> Sorry.  When I said "that second grid" I meant the one in the email message Wyndham sent out, not the one posted at the beginning of this thread.  That has the same weekly values, but also breaks them down by weekend/weeknight.



I didn't get an email or I deleted it (will have to go through my deleted folder) thinking it was garbage like all the other email I get.  However, I really like the changes for RCI and Wyndham, although it will cost me more there is an easy and convience factor that will out weigh it.  I don't try to suck every drop of $ savings from my timeshares.  I just want a good deal that beats what I can get buying/renting retail.  I think all my TS options have given me great values and even with cost going up some I feel it is still a great bargain.  

The more and more I use my Wyndham points I keep thinking WOW WHAT A STEAL I got from taking a chance on EBAY.  I actually have to start conserving my 2011 pts as I'm almost out and have lots of stuff I want to do with them yet.  I used all  but a 1000pts this year, and I have a 651k pts (not a ton but it is not a small amount).  Of my TS options Wyn is looking better and better every day especially for the cost!  My DVC pts, I get to bank about 75% of them and I went to Disney 4x's in the last 12 months!


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## Jya-Ning (Dec 16, 2010)

Thanks, have not get the eMail.  Guess the deposit can not be combined.

Jya-Ning


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## bnoble (Dec 16, 2010)

Just a note: Wyndham has put up a few more details on the owners' web site.  You may need to be logged in to read it, but there is a short version (with almost no detail) here, then a longer version (with a few more details) here, and a list of frequently asked questions as well.

There is also a page for II, but the only changes seem to be the new point structure and HK credits.

One question that I had had was whether or not we'd still have "regular" Weeks accounts provided "free" as Wyn owners.  It appears the answer to that is yes:


> Will I still have a separate login for RCI.com?
> Yes, you will still have the ability to create a login for RCI.com and you can still view all of the offers that are available to you through RCI. However, in order to make your RCI exchange reservations with your CLUB WYNDHAM points, you must visit WyndhamVacationResorts.com to use the new RCI site exclusively for CLUB WYNDHAM Plus Members.



But, it does look like we won't be able to combine Wyn point deposits with non-Wyn weeks to beef up their trade power.


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## Jya-Ning (Dec 17, 2010)

I read it twice.  Look like the grid table is used when you exchange back to Wyndham resorts.

It said twice that your deposit is started at 27,000 and increament by 1000.  And everytime it mentions the grid table, it said it is for the balance of Wyndham resort.  

Will see what is the final system look like.

Also



> *Will there be any changes to how Housekeeping Credits are used with exchanges? *Yes, RCI deposits will require 1 Housekeeping Credit for every 2,000 points deposited.



and


> *Will there still be a VIP Upgrade option for Worldwide Exchange deposits? *
> Yes, Gold and Platinum VIP Members will continue to have the opportunity to request an upgrade during the quiet and value seasons for the next larger unit in the same season. This upgrade benefit is not available online. To take advantage of this benefit, please contact your CLUB WYNDHAM Plus Vacation Planning Counselor at 1-800-251-8736.



Jya-Ning


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## Conan (Dec 17, 2010)

If you have Club Wyndham Plus Points (the usual thing) and you're not a Club Wyndham PlusPartner, what good is it to deposit fewer than 74,000 points?

And if it matters, can a resale buyer become a Club Wyndham PlusPartner?

Thanks!


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## bnoble (Dec 17, 2010)

> If you have Club Wyndham Plus Points (the usual thing) and you're not a Club Wyndham PlusPartner, what good is it to deposit fewer than 74,000 points?


If you deposit from two different use years, those points can be combined.




> And if it matters, can a resale buyer become a Club Wyndham PlusPartner?


Yes.  The fee is ~$2400.  With the new exchange system, it is less clear that this is worthwhile.  In the "old" system, there were things that Wyndham just could not get in Weeks, but could in Points via PlusPartners.  In the new system, Wyndham has equal access, reducing one of the big downsides of Weeks.


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## onthego (Dec 17, 2010)

According to the Wyndham site the upgrade will still be available to VIP's but it will not be available on-line.  You have to call to get it.


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## Jya-Ning (Dec 17, 2010)

onthego said:


> According to the Wyndham site the upgrade will still be available to VIP's but it will not be available on-line.  You have to call to get it.



This is from the web


> Want to see what’s available before you make a deposit? Soon you can…
> *CLUB WYNDHAM Plus Members *will have the ability to view RCI’s availability before you make a deposit using RCI Search First!.
> 
> If you see a location that you’re interested in, you will have the option to deposit your points, or you can book the reservation using points that you have previously deposited in your RCI account.
> New VIP Benefit! If you are a Gold or Platinum VIP Member, with RCI as your exchange company, you will have the ability to search and book instantly without having to first deposit available points from your CLUB WYNDHAM Plus account to RCI.



Looks to me everyone can search on-line.  Although only VIP gold+ can reserve on-line without first deposit the points.  The rest will have to make deposit wait for how long it will take to process, and save the exchange fee or call VC and make RCI deposit 3 ways to make reservation and charge RCI regular fee.

Jya-Ning


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## alexinorlando (Dec 17, 2010)

Does this mean p.i.c. will be affected as in more points for a p.i.c. week deposited?


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## Kozman (Dec 17, 2010)

learnalot said:


> I believe you can still get 28K deposits at this point.  The changes will take place sometime mid-January from what the email said.



I'm talking about next year.  I have all of 2010 covered.


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## bnoble (Dec 17, 2010)

> Does this mean p.i.c. will be affected as in more points for a p.i.c. week deposited?


I would be surprised, but I suppose it is possible.


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## jjmanthei05 (Dec 17, 2010)

bnoble said:


> If you deposit from two different use years, those points can be combined.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



The other thing that PP offers over weeks in the choice of booking less than a week. So if you only want to go for a long weekend you don't have to pay the full week point price. 

Jason


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## learnalot (Dec 17, 2010)

Kozman said:


> I'm talking about next year.  I have all of 2010 covered.



Okay.  So if you want to make any 28K deposits from next year's points, you'll have to do it before the new system kicks in mid-January.


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## siesta (Dec 18, 2010)

I considered using reserve cancel trick to deposit 154k before the change in small increments to milk it, but would rather have a shot at something I didn't have access to prior, preferably in "high" season.

Edit: I'm sure goofyhobbie is considering the same thing, "timesharing on a shoestring" one last time with wyndham points


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## learnalot (Dec 18, 2010)

Kozman said:


> Looks like there will be a lot more people with points left unused at the end of the use year since 28K is no longer an option.  If you have 73K left over you will need to book those within the Wyndham system if you can find something available.  Otherwise you donate them to Wyndham.



Kozman, 
When you posted this, I said that you could still make 28K deposits until they implement the change in mid-January because I had the impression you thought you were stuck with those points.  After I answered you, you posted this:



Kozman said:


> I'm talking about next year.  I have all of 2010 covered.



That tells me that I don't think you are clear on the described new system, because you would still be able to deposit those 73K points into RCI at the end of 2011.  From what I have read, my understanding is that in the new system, you will no longer be depositing "weeks" (not that you ever actually were, unless you got a visible).  You will be putting Wyndham points into an  RCI savings account of sorts.  The chart they released last week shows how many of those points it will "cost" you when you wish to make a reservation - more points than the previous grid had cost. It seems like this is how they will handle the combining of deposits for Wyndham owners (whereas people who deposit fixed weeks have a trading power assigned to their deposits, which they can combine if they want to book something that requires higher trading power than their deposits could pull in isolation).  You can deposit points into RCI at various points throughout the year, if you wish, up to the last day of the use year, adding to your point balance, like depositing money to your bank account.  

I'm pretty sure this is correct because it's the only way their information makes any sense, i.e., they state that the minimum increment one can deposit is 27K and that deposits are made in 1K denominations.  Since nothing on the chart could be booked with 27K, clearly that is not meant to represent a week, but is a points deposit to be added to your other points.  So if you had 73K left at the end of the year, you could deposit them and they would become currency you could spend in RCI for 2 years.  If you only had 14K left approaching the end of the year, you would not be able to deposit them with RCI unless you pulled in 13K from the next year with a reserve/cancel.


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## EZ Ed (Dec 18, 2010)

*Absorbing, but confusing, info!  What to do now?*

Okay, I have approx 150K points expiring end of 2011; most of my vacations have already been booked.  The 150K could be considered "excess."  What, if any, advantage is there to depositing a portion of them w/RCI prior to the change?  I've got a regular 28K deposit already, and I'm just a plain VIP owner, so my benefits are limited?  Do I just hold on to the points and deposit all or part of them at the optimum time or do I try to make an "old school" deposit before the deadline?  What's the consensus now that we have processed this for a few days now?

I've looked, but I don't think I've seen the "definitive" opinion on the board yet.
Thanks as always for your expertise and opinions!
EZ Ed in Fort Mill, SC


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## learnalot (Dec 18, 2010)

EZ Ed said:


> Okay, I have approx 150K points expiring end of 2011; most of my vacations have already been booked.  The 150K could be considered "excess."  What, if any, advantage is there to depositing a portion of them w/RCI prior to the change?  I've got a regular 28K deposit already, and I'm just a plain VIP owner, so my benefits are limited?  Do I just hold on to the points and deposit all or part of them at the optimum time or do I try to make an "old school" deposit before the deadline?  What's the consensus now that we have processed this for a few days now?
> 
> I've looked, but I don't think I've seen the "definitive" opinion on the board yet.
> Thanks as always for your expertise and opinions!
> EZ Ed in Fort Mill, SC



Ed,
I don't think there is any one size fits all answer.  Here are a couple perspectives.  For people who are able to travel in the off-season and/or with a great deal of flexibility, and who travel A LOT and stretch their points as far as possible, the 28K deposts have served them very well.  If you are such a person, you might wish to get a few more 28K or 42K deposits (weeks) while you still can (apparently before mid-January).  For others, who may be limited to peak season travel (anyone tied to the school calendar, as we are), the usefulness of these deposits is limited.  In such cases, it may be better to use points for internal bookings, and/or to accumulate them for a first tier exchange.  

In either case, we are all just making educated guesses at best right now, but I still think it makes sense to consider which of the two scenarios better describes your situation.  I think that if I had a flexible schedule, I would probably try and obtain the small deposits while they are available.  As it is, I will probably get one or two.  They are truly a bargain if you are able to use them.  If not and they just expire, then not so much.


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## siesta (Dec 18, 2010)

EZ Ed said:


> What's the consensus now that we have processed this for a few days now?


 I believe the consensus is it comes down to preference and vacation style.  You can deposit them now with the "old" chart, and hope to continue the "cheap" trades, or you can save them for something you may have not been able to exchange into before but will have to pay more for.  It's your chance for one last hoorah, they were nice enough(or we were lucky enough) to have a solid month to decide, some of you just a few weeks if your use year is at an end.


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## bnoble (Dec 18, 2010)

The real question is: how many more vacations can you take in the next two years, and where would you be willing to go?  If the answer is "a lot" and "almost anywhere", then there is some advantage to sneaking in a few more low-point studio deposits before The Change.  But, if your time available for travel is limited, and/or you are tied to school break days, it might be better to just allow the change to happen, and follow the switch.


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## Sandy VDH (Dec 18, 2010)

If they are not "canceled" points you could also consider Pooling your Wyndham points before the end of they year, if your use year is Jan - Dec.  That would give you 3 years in wyndham.


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## paxsarah (Dec 18, 2010)

Sandy Lovell said:


> If they are not "canceled" points you could also consider Pooling your Wyndham points before the end of they year, if your use year is Jan - Dec.  That would give you 3 years in wyndham.



This is probably the route I'd go. 

With regard to RCI, you'd also want to consider how much you want to travel in the next few years - if you deposit in RCI now to take advantage of the smaller increments, you've got two years from now, vs. if you wait until the end of 2011 in the new system you'd basically have three years from now.


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## JudyS (Dec 19, 2010)

I'm not a Wyndham owner (although Wyndham keeps calling me, and trying to convert my Fairfield-built, VRI-managed weeks to Wyndham points  ) 

So, I'm no expert on the Wyndham system. However, based on my understanding of the Wyndham system, I'm surprised that people here aren't more upset. Isn't this going to make off-season and last-minute RCI trades a terrible deal using Wyndham points?  Yet, I'm not seeing the sort of angry reaction that we saw on TUG when Starwood stopped letting owners pick specific weeks for deposit into II.

I suppose this new system is mostly a problem if you don't own anything else that trades in RCI. If you own even one decent RCI trader (other than Wyndham points), you could stretch that into several off-season or last-minute trades, and then use Wyndham points only for high demand RCI trades (which previously may not have been available via Wyndham points at all.) Is that why owners aren't more upset?


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## sjuhawk_jd (Dec 19, 2010)

JudyS said:


> I'm not a Wyndham owner (although Wyndham keeps calling me, and trying to convert my Fairfield-built, VRI-managed weeks to Wyndham points  )
> 
> So, I'm no expert on the Wyndham system. However, based on my understanding of the Wyndham system, I'm surprised that people here aren't more upset. Isn't this going to make off-season and last-minute RCI trades a terrible deal using Wyndham points?  Yet, I'm not seeing the sort of angry reaction that we saw on TUG when Starwood stopped letting owners pick specific weeks for deposit into II.
> 
> I suppose this new system is mostly a problem if you don't own anything else that trades in RCI. If you own even one decent RCI trader (other than Wyndham points), you could stretch that into several off-season or last-minute trades, and then use Wyndham points only for high demand RCI trades (which previously may not have been available via Wyndham points at all.) Is that why owners aren't more upset?



Nobody is upset because Wyndham does not care a bit about owners (as well as how they are feeling!!). So why bother


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## regatta333 (Dec 19, 2010)

JudyS said:


> I'm not a Wyndham owner (although Wyndham keeps calling me, and trying to convert my Fairfield-built, VRI-managed weeks to Wyndham points  )
> 
> So, I'm no expert on the Wyndham system. However, based on my understanding of the Wyndham system, I'm surprised that people here aren't more upset. Isn't this going to make off-season and last-minute RCI trades a terrible deal using Wyndham points?  Yet, I'm not seeing the sort of angry reaction that we saw on TUG when Starwood stopped letting owners pick specific weeks for deposit into II.
> 
> I suppose this new system is mostly a problem if you don't own anything else that trades in RCI. If you own even one decent RCI trader (other than Wyndham points), you could stretch that into several off-season or last-minute trades, and then use Wyndham points only for high demand RCI trades (which previously may not have been available via Wyndham points at all.) Is that why owners aren't more upset?




Judy,
I am also surprised that people aren't more upset by this.  On top of the 13% annual increase in maintenance/program fees that I just received in the mail from Wyndham, this now means that the smallest unit in RCI would now cost more than $1,000.  To me, this is a game-changer.

I am down to my last week in RCI.  It has become more and more difficult to get a decent exchange.  After that week is used, I am done with them, except insofar as it may make sense to occasionally book a cheap rental.  Why would I deposit 143K plus points and pay a high exchange fee to get a studio/1BD, when there are plenty of rentals to be had for much less than $1,000?

My future business will be going to SFX, DAE, and Platinum Interchange.


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## janej (Dec 19, 2010)

I am actually very surprised a big size company like Wyndham can do all these to their customers without breaking any law.  I know benefits such as points transfer, RCI/II exchange or program fee were not set in stone in the contract.  But they must have used all these in their sells presentation.  It seem to be fraudulent to take such dramatic action to cut down member benefit year after year.   I can't imagine any business can get away for doing what Wyndham has done to the product they sold.

Is there really no action we can take other than get out of the program?  I am sure many of us just want to get out.  But who is going to buy into it with policies change so often?


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## learnalot (Dec 19, 2010)

*Not too upset if result is better trading power*

Judy,

I guess I am not particularly upset because the 28K trades have never worked for me anyway.  As a teacher tied to the school schedule, we have to travel during peak season and RCI has never worked well for us.  I know that for some, it has.  With a very flexible schedule and itinerary, it has been possible for some people to really stretch points using the 28K deposits.  It has probably also worked well for TUG members who have been able to use the sightings board to obtain the trades back into Wyndham resorts for the small point deposits.  I'm sure we would have been able to get much more out of the RCI trades if we had found TUG sooner.  

One of the biggest frustrations with RCI (besides people not being able to get visible deposits they could use to search online) is the difficulty of obtaining first-rate exchanges.  (i.e., forget about pulling Disney, etc.).  But that isn't surprising when you consider that most of the point values on the current-soon-to-be-replaced grid for RCI deposits are greatly deflated because they are based on the point values of the original legacy resorts and do not reflect the reservation point cost for any other resorts.  I just went through the whole Wyndham Directory.  Out of over 70 resorts, there are only 3 where a 28K Blue Studio even exists: Branson Falls, Fairfield Bay, and Patriots Place.  There is also one affiliate location in the Ozarks, but inventory is so limited there it is probably a non-factor.  Several properties have 49K Blue Studios, several have 42K blue studios, several have 56K, several have 77K.  By my calculations, the average point cost for a blue studio among the resorts that have studios, which many do not, is 63K.  (This is a rough average in that it is strictly based off the point total required for blue studios divided by the number of resorts offering blue studios.  It does not consider the number of units available at each location, which would give a more accurate number).  The rough average point cost on Red Studios is 125K and the rough average on a Red 2BR is 368K.  When you consider these statistics, it is not surprising that the trade value for RCI in Wyndham (excluding the Wyndham internal preference) has been so poor.  Not to mention that, although I have certainly taken advantage of the option to deposit unused points at the very end of the use year just as they would expire, I have always wondered what value those points could actually have.  (Unless Wyndham advances points to RCI throughout the year, assuming that they will be covered with end-of-year deposits, which is possible).

In any case, I think that the new points grid should eliminate the poor trading power of Wyndham deposits in RCI.  Although I would like to see them refine the system by factoring in the trading power required for the unit you want to book.  A deposit under the new points grid should pull anything, including Manhattan Club with TP pushing 60.  In other words, deposits at these point levels should be Tigers.  If you don't want to book a Tiger, you should get "change back" in your account that can be used for another exchange.  Or they need to have multiple deposit grids based on the trading power band you desire.  

If you like to use the 28K deposits, get them while you can if you want them.  I think we'll get a couple while they can be had and see if I have more luck with them now armed with my TUG knowledge.  Mostly, we will wait and see how things shake out.  I'm glad I know that there are alternatives to RCI if I don't like what I see when they roll out the changes!


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## siesta (Dec 19, 2010)

*This is why I'm not upset*

If an HGVC owner and a Wyndham owner book the same exchange who got the better deal?

Wyndham owner would pay 143k points for a 1br prime thru rci, and typical contracts are ~$5 per thousand points, so approx. 143X$5=*$715*

A HGVC owner would have to pay 3400 points for a 1br prime thru rci, now the cost will matter if one has a 3500, 5000, 7000 point contract due to the way MF are billed.  On ebay I see a 3500 point contract at Hilton Karen, is $960, that's out.  I see a I-Drive with MF of $795, that's out too.  

Moving on to 5000 point. I see a hilton vegas blvd for ~$850. That is about $578 for the exchange week.  A difference of $137.  A seaworld 5000 point contract is ~$1000, that is $680 for the exchanged week, so a diff of $35

Now to a 7000 point contract with MF of around ~$1000 would give you the week for around $485. A difference of $230.

My point is, the luckiest of hgvc owners are paying thousands of dollars for a resale on ebay, unless they get extremely lucky with a property in vegas without ROFR.  And they will either get a worse deal, a $137 deal, or a $230 deal.  

Considering I got my contract for a $1 with free closing, I would say these cheaply acquired points are holding their own quite well.  This is my opinion of course, and obvously my numbers above may not represent the *best * deals you can get for either system MF wise, but it was to show a general point.


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## bnoble (Dec 19, 2010)

> I'm surprised that people here aren't more upset.


Well, first, I'm not upset because I never get too worked up over what timeshare companies do around exchange systems.  You own what you own, and that you can use from year to year, but everything else is, as they say, _Subject To Change_.  I *never* expect things to stay the same from year to year.  Indeed, one of my main exchange targets is DVC, and in the three to four years I've been trading in to DVC, there have been *three* major upheavals: DVC's switch from II to RCI on 1/1/09, RCI's global revaluation on 5/30/09, and the TPU system on 11/15/10.  Each one changed the way I thought about getting those exchanges, and this change will too.

Second, I'm not upset because this change isn't strictly a devaluation.  True, the bargain-bin exchanges will no longer be there with this new model.  But, in exchange (if you'll pardon the pun) Wyndham is no longer hobbled in terms of trade power.  Over the past many years, it was essentially impossible to get any of the "good stuff" in Weeks with Wyndham, but now it's very possible---and in some cases, might even be a decent deal.

Third, I *will* miss the bargain-basement trades, especially the ones where I could trade back into Wyndham with very low-point deposits.  They were nice deals.  But, I'm not upset about losing them because, ultimately, they were unsustainable.  You can't keep pulling out 150K-250K weeks with 28K-70K deposits and expect that to last forever.  There's a *reason* Wyndham's trade power stunk on the high end, and one contributing factor was undoubtedly that they had to "make up" for those ridiculous deals somewhere else.

Fourth, I'm not upset because of exactly what you point out at the end of your note:


> this new system is mostly a problem if you don't own anything else that trades in RCI


although I'd amend it to "anything else that isn't also in a minisystem that trades in RCI."  All of the minis with custom portals have these sorts of fixed crossover grids, AFAIK, so none of them are useful for close-in discounting.  But, I do have a couple fixed weeks, and the TPU-style change gives those some of the flexibility that the Wyndham account loses.  It's not quite the same, but it's close.  Ultimately, this sort of portfolio approach has been what has helped me weather all of these changes over time.  And, if the timeshare gods are smiling on me, it will help me weather the changes that are undoubtedly coming along down the road.

Ultimately, though, I'm not upset because I believe that---over time---market pressures on exchange will require exchanges to become more equitable with time, where "equitable" is measured by rental value on the open market.  That means that some of those great bargains are necessarily going to go away, eventually.  But, on the other hand, I'll be more likely to get back something comparable to what I'm giving, rather than risking a sharp trade down.  I believe this is going to happen not just in RCI, but in all of the exchange systems, and it's only a matter of time.  Until then, I will be happy to get while the getting is good, and find new clever ways to exploit any loopholes that come up.  But, I won't be wearing sackcloth and ashes when the loopholes disappear.

Edited to add one more thing: several years ago or so, when Wyndham removed the ability to reserve and deposit specific weeks, people *were* very upset.  But, again, this is the risk one takes when joining a mini---you cede control of your week to the system in at least some way.  You can pull it back out and have full control over it as a regular timeshare week, but you have to_ pull it back out_.  Some people with really super-prime weeks might find that a useful thing to do, but for most, the benefits of Wyn's system for internal bookings probably outweigh these problems.


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## bnoble (Dec 19, 2010)

> Is there really no action we can take other than get out of the program? I am sure many of us just want to get out. But who is going to buy into it with policies change so often?


I suspect that, for *most* Wyndham owners, internal use is the only thing that really matters.  They might throw some points at RCI if they are about to expire, but maybe not even that.  I'd guess that most of the folks who were really squeezing every last dime out via these low-point exchanges are TUGgers or similar, and very much in the minority.


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## donnaval (Dec 19, 2010)

I'm upset, Judy.  

I purchased Wyndham (resale, Fairfield at the time) specifically for the 28k deposits.  In fact, before I understood that it wasn't the most cost-effective way to get into Wyndham, my first purchase was a 28k contract for a Branson unit.  Now I can no longer trade that unit-for-unit, I must combine with other points to get anything.  I think I would be better off letting that unit convert back to its underlying fixed week.  Ditto a 2-br lockout I own in Flagstaff that has been converted to points--as points it won't even get me a 1-br trade, but if I let it go back to its underlying fixed week I can lock it off and get two weeks out of it.

My mom has a 64k package at Star Island that trades through RCI. She too bought because of the 28k trades.  It's her only timeshare.  She would never have purchased this contract under the new grid.  64k won't get her a trade or much at all through Wyndham directly.

I don't feel like a robber baron who has gotten away with something for years--I feel like I made the best decisions at the time based on information available and considering how we travel and what we expect in return.  I never expected DVC or Marriott for a 28k deposit.  I believed that Fairfield was a reputable company that cared about its owners.  I had one good year before they started decimating the program, and then Wyndham took over,  now this...I am sick about it.


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## regatta333 (Dec 19, 2010)

siesta said:


> Wyndham owner would pay 143k points for a 1br prime thru rci, and typical contracts are ~$5 per thousand points, so approx. 143X$5=*$715*



I think the typical costs are now more like $6 per thousand points, especially with the increases for 2011.


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## regatta333 (Dec 19, 2010)

learnalot said:


> By my calculations, the average point cost for a blue studio among the resorts that have studios, which many do not, is 63K.  (This is a rough average in that it is strictly based off the point total required for blue studios divided by the number of resorts offering blue studios.  It does not consider the number of units available at each location, which would give a more accurate number).  The rough average point cost on Red Studios is 125K and the rough average on a Red 2BR is 368K.  When you consider these statistics, it is not surprising that the trade value for RCI in Wyndham (excluding the Wyndham internal preference) has been so poor.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## siesta (Dec 19, 2010)

regatta333 said:


> I think the typical costs are now more like $6 per thousand points, especially with the increases for 2011.


 I think the only people that saw those kind of increases were EOY owners with the increased program fees?  my contract is 154k annual, $4.74 per 1000 points, for a MF of $729.96, program fee of $88.12, making the total $818.08 for approx. $5.31 per 1000 points.


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## learnalot (Dec 19, 2010)

regatta333 said:


> Yes, but how frequently are the newer, higher point units actually deposited to RCI?  It is mostly the older resorts and those in overbuilt areas that get deposited to RCI.  I suspect this higher point costs bears little relationship to the average point values of the weeks that Wyndham actually deposits to RCI, so I'm not holding my breath about any improved trade power.



Regatta,

If it doesn't improve the trading power significantly, I won't use RCI. I think it has to, though. 

I don't know that it's true that the older resorts were the ones mostly deposited to RCI. But if it is true, there are several reasons for it. First, those are the only resorts whose deposits could have been supported by the RCI deposit grid. I also think that when people got visibles, they were probably at the legacy resorts for the same reason - no other deposits would match the deposit chart. (Which would explain why they were so dang hard to get). Also, if you saw more deposits of the legacy resorts in RCI, you have to take into account that fixed week owners have always been able (the only ones able) to deposit their fixed week. (Meaning a fixed week could actually be deposited by the owner themselves as opposed to something Wyndham "gives" RCI). I think only the legacy resorts were sold as fixed weeks before they went to UDI point sales. There is some circular reasoning going on when you say that trading power won't improve because only the older resorts are usually deposited. Because I am saying that, if that has been true, it's because the points values on the old chart wouldn't support anything more. With the new chart, I think it changes the game.

I'm certainly not holding my breath about anything. I mostly book internally. If we want to exchange somewhere, we can exchange somewhere. If RCI doesn't work well, there are other options available and we will certainly use them.


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## regatta333 (Dec 19, 2010)

siesta said:


> I think the only people that saw those kind of increases were EOY owners with the increased program fees?  my contract is 154k annual, $4.74 per 1000 points, for a MF of $729.96, program fee of $88.12, making the total $818.08 for approx. $5.31 per 1000 points.



Not true.  I own 4 annual points contracts and my average increase was 13% across the 4.  My average cost per 1000 points is now $6.


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## learnalot (Dec 19, 2010)

donnaval said:


> I'm upset, Judy.
> 
> I purchased Wyndham (resale, Fairfield at the time) specifically for the 28k deposits.  In fact, before I understood that it wasn't the most cost-effective way to get into Wyndham, my first purchase was a 28k contract for a Branson unit.  Now I can no longer trade that unit-for-unit, I must combine with other points to get anything.  I think I would be better off letting that unit convert back to its underlying fixed week.  Ditto a 2-br lockout I own in Flagstaff that has been converted to points--as points it won't even get me a 1-br trade, but if I let it go back to its underlying fixed week I can lock it off and get two weeks out of it.
> 
> ...



Donnaval,

I feel bad for you.  As I said in an earlier post, I know some people have been very successful with the 28K trades.  But I also think they were always a sales gimmick that most people have never been able to use as freely as was suggested in sales presentations.  If they work for you, get as many as you can while you can.  I'm sending you a PM with some suggestions.

I think Wyndham definitely has some questionable practices, especially in sales.  And while I do think that the new points chart should significantly increase the trading power of the Wyndham deposits, it has definitely occurred to me that this increased chart will also be used as a sales tool to push people to buy more points.

While I think the new grid will improve the trading power, it may go too far that direction.  It might be better if they had a multi-level grid that related deposits to trading power bands.  (i.e., if you want to see units requiring 50+ TP, you must deposit this many points; this many for 40-49, and so on...  

We'll see where the dust settles.  We have never gone to the annual meeting, but maybe we should...


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## JudyS (Dec 19, 2010)

Thanks for all of the replies to my question. This has given more insight into how Wyndham works. Hopefully, many Tuggers will be able to get RCI good trades under the new system, and those that can't will be able to find other uses for their Wyndham points.



learnalot said:


> ...
> In any case, I think that the new points grid should eliminate the poor trading power of Wyndham deposits in RCI.  Although I would like to see them refine the system by factoring in the trading power required for the unit you want to book.  A deposit under the new points grid should pull anything, including Manhattan Club with TP pushing 60.  In other words, deposits at these point levels should be Tigers.  If you don't want to book a Tiger, you should get "change back" in your account that can be used for another exchange.  Or they need to have multiple deposit grids based on the trading power band you desire...


Just to be clear, you are saying that you would *like* Wyndham to offer "change back" from RCI trades, but right now, they aren't offering this. Is that correct? 



donnaval said:


> I'm upset, Judy.
> 
> I purchased Wyndham (resale, Fairfield at the time) specifically for the 28k deposits.  In fact, before I understood that it wasn't the most cost-effective way to get into Wyndham, my first purchase was a 28k contract for a Branson unit.  Now I can no longer trade that unit-for-unit, I must combine with other points to get anything.  I think I would be better off letting that unit convert back to its underlying fixed week.  Ditto a 2-br lockout I own in Flagstaff that has been converted to points--as points it won't even get me a 1-br trade, but if I let it go back to its underlying fixed week I can lock it off and get two weeks out of it.
> 
> My mom has a 64k package at Star Island that trades through RCI. She too bought because of the 28k trades.  It's her only timeshare.  She would never have purchased this contract under the new grid.  64k won't get her a trade or much at all through Wyndham directly....


I'm sorry that this has worked out so badly for you, Donna. If it makes you feel any better, my very first timeshare (bought resale) decided on a special assessment just days after I purchased! 

How much are the MFs for the weeks that you and your Mom own? Also, I didn't realize that it was possible to "unconvert" a week from Wyndham Points back to the underlying week. I've seen some weeks at Fairfield Mountains (in Lake Lure -- I think it's one of the oldest Wyndham resorts) for sale on eBay that looked nice, but I didn't want them because they were in Wyndham Points, and I wanted fixed weeks instead. Right now, I have more weeks than I can use, but maybe someday, I'd be interested in one of those weeks if they could be converted back.


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## bnoble (Dec 19, 2010)

> I didn't realize that it was possible to "unconvert" a week from Wyndham Points back to the underlying week.


It isn't always.  If the original deed was sold as an undivided interest, then it can't be pulled out.  If the original deed was sold as a fixed (or floating) week that was later converted, it can.


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## JudyS (Dec 19, 2010)

learnalot said:


> ... It might be better if they had a multi-level grid that related deposits to trading power bands.  (i.e., if you want to see units requiring 50+ TP, you must deposit this many points; this many for 40-49, and so on...


I think the simplest and most straightforward system would be to let Wyndham Points owners trade a specific number of points to get one TPU. For example, maybe for every 5k points you gave RCI, RCI would put one TPU in your account. There are actually quite a few last-minute trades at 6 TPUs or less, so with this approach, 25-30k points would still give some nice trades.

Of course, no one has ever accused Wyndham Points of being a simple and straightforward system!


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## JudyS (Dec 19, 2010)

bnoble said:


> It isn't always.  If the original deed was sold as an undivided interest, then it can't be pulled out.  If the original deed was sold as a fixed (or floating) week that was later converted, it can.



Thanks, Brian. Is there a fee for "unconverting" a week?

(I had assumed the UDI contracts couldn't be pulled out of points, just the older fixed and floating weeks. UDI contracts were never really "converted" in the first place, as they were always Points, weren't they?)


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## bnoble (Dec 19, 2010)

> Is there a fee for "unconverting" a week?


I don't think so, but do not know for sure.


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## learnalot (Dec 19, 2010)

JudyS said:


> Just to be clear, you are saying that you would *like* Wyndham to offer "change back" from RCI trades, but right now, they aren't offering this. Is that correct?



Hi Judy,

That is correct.  Actually, right now Wyndham trades are still handled completely differently from the rest of RCI, so there is no "change back" type scenario at all with Wyndham right now, as there is with other trades since the November RCI rollout.  My comment was related to what I would like to see in the new Wyndham/RCI system they are rolling out mid-January, but which does not have any type of provisions right now for "change back" as far as we know.  We'll see as more information becomes available about exactly how it's supposed to work.


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## learnalot (Dec 19, 2010)

JudyS said:


> I think the simplest and most straightforward system would be to let Wyndham Points owners trade a specific number of points to get one TPU. For example, maybe for every 5k points you gave RCI, RCI would put one TPU in your account. There are actually quite a few last-minute trades at 6 TPUs or less, so with this approach, 25-30k points would still give some nice trades.
> 
> Of course, no one has ever accused Wyndham Points of being a simple and straightforward system!



Hi Judy,
What you suggest would be a great approach toward making trades "fair and equitable" which is their stated goal.   Thank you.  I hope someone takes note!


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## Jennie (Dec 23, 2010)

JudyS said:


> Is there a fee for "unconverting" a week?



I believe there is no fee for "unconverting" a non UDI week. Here's my tale of woe:

I purchased a converted week via an Ebay auction. It took many, too many, months for the paperwork to be completed. The seller (one of the experienced ones whom many TUGgers have used successfully for years) collected the next year's maintenance fees from me as part of the closing costs. 

I had no idea that the m/fees were due in July of each year. Everything else I have ever owned (fixed, floating, RCI Points weeks) has always required payment in December or January. The m/f bill for our Wyndham FF converted week arrived when we were on an extended vacation. All of our mail was being held at the Post Office. 

When we returned home in August and found the FF m/f bill, I immediately called the seller to discuss the situation. He claimed that I should have realized by the low m/f he collected during the closing process, that I was going to have to make the next payment in July  . He offered to give me a free bonus week to make up for the $25. late fee I would undoubtedly incur. Like I need another week! I basically told him "Thanks for nothing".

I then called Wyndham to explain the reason for not paying on time, and made the payment instantly by phone via credit card. The Customer Service Representative stated that they were waiving the late fee because of the circumstances. He sent me an Email confirmation stating this. 

When December rolled around, I called to use my Points to make a future reservation at another FF resort. The rep stated that I could not do so because my account showed a $25.00 unpaid balance. I explained what had happened and volunteered to fax or Email her the letter sent by the CSR in August, waiving the late fee. She then said that there was nothing she could do for me because the failure to pay on time had automatically caused my converted week to revert back to being a fixed-deeded week. 

I made many more calls about it and got a complete run-around. I was transferred to FF offices in Florida, Texas, and Las Vegas. Each one gave me different answers, and each said that I would have to talk to someone else. This went on for a week and literally had me on the phone for 9 hours altogether.  

When I vacationed at this home resort two months later, staying in a unit we have owned for years as a deeded week, I spoke with the manager. She offered to assist us in trying to get the converted week re-instated to Points. But by that time I had decided that the FF Points system was so "screwed up" that I would be better off owning the week as a fixed-deeded week. Our intention from the git go had been to use it ourselves most every year. It is a 2 bedroom in the best building, with a great view, and it falls during President's week almost every year, which is a very high demand week in this area. In fact, we rented it out for twice our m/f and the same couple wants to rent again each year, or even purchase it from us, because they love it. 

So, bottom line, at least from our terrible experience, is that if you are even two weeks late paying the m/f, Wyndham will use that as an excuse to dump you back into deeded (non Points) ownership, and require you to pay a couple of thousand dollars to get back into Points. Frankly, I wouldn't pay $2.00 to do it. Thank goodness we own a valuable week. We can rent it and use the proceeds to rent whatever else we might want direct from another owner. Or happily use our week every year. That makes us far less dependent upon Wyndham and RCI and their never-ending rule and fee changes.


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## ronandjoan (Jan 5, 2011)

chriskre said:


> So with this change Wyndham has taken away any incentive for me to trade in RCI thus leaving them with less money from me for exchanges as I will just use my points internally or take my exchange business elsewhere.
> 
> SFX is looking better all the time.



AMEN to that, that's how I feel


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## ronandjoan (Jan 5, 2011)

Arnie said:


> Now what about the leftover deposits. will they be forwarded into the new system? IE: I have 2 28K deposits left over. Worse case senario, they will go POOF!! I know they say they will remain unchanged.



Does anyone have an answer for this?


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## ausman (Jan 5, 2011)

Arnie said:


> Now what about the leftover deposits. will they be forwarded into the new system? IE: I have 2 28K deposits left over. Worse case senario, they will go POOF!! I know they say they will remain unchanged.



You mean existing deposits.?

The literature suggests they will remain in the system until used or expire, they won't go poof.

What is in question, will they retain an internal preference for other Wyndam resorts or will they not.

Current indications are they will not and thus be only useful in the 10 -30 day last minute RCI window.


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## Conan (Jan 6, 2011)

You can assume that the pre-2011 28K deposits aren't going to get the sort of exchanges they used to get.

That may already be happening.  I have a week reserved for 9/8/12 that I got with a 28K deposit.  There's current availability in RCI for that same week and also the preceding week 9/1/12.  Both are being offered for 15 TP.

I called about cancelling my 9/8 reservation and taking the 9/1 date in its place.  The agent checked and said if I cancelled, my restored 28K would not be strong enough to hold the 9/1 week.

So I guess I'll be keeping the 9/8/12 after all....


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## Culli (Jan 6, 2011)

Conan said:


> You can assume that the pre-2011 28K deposits aren't going to get the sort of exchanges they used to get.
> 
> That may already be happening.  I have a week reserved for 9/8/12 that I got with a 28K deposit.  There's current availability in RCI for that same week and also the preceding week 9/1/12.  Both are being offered for 15 TP.
> 
> ...



Or just keep calling until you get a rep that will make the change for you


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## siesta (Jan 22, 2011)

bump, for new people


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## steve34609 (Jan 22, 2011)

*A step forward?*



jjmanthei05 said:


> What this new chart looks like it does is limit the trading back into Wyndham. I looked at GC point chart (the resort we go to most often) and the only place that this would be a value strictly on points would be a 1 bedroom in high or prime. Every other category costs more points in RCI than it does booking Wyndham internal. Looks to be similar at BC only prime and high 1 bedroom and 2 bedroom High (by 5,000 points) and 2 bed prime is a push not counting any exchange fee that needs to be paid.
> 
> Jason



I spoke with Wyndham/RCI yesterday.

The previous,invisible deposits still let you play by the old rules. You still get the free upgrades if available. 

The minimum deposit is now 74k...not 28k as quoted by the wyndham rep above. This hurts us. Yes,we're stingy. 
Last year we realized thousands more at retail, over what we paid in in M and T. Orange Lake,LV,Ocean Walk,SoCal,SoFLA...and more. We have actually booked a blue week (28k points) and gotten a full 2 BR in the past! Under the new system,the auto/comp upgrades based upon availability...are gone.

We own both of our contracts at Palm Aire outright. We pay only M and T. Therefore,our points run on a factor of $.0057 per. This means that we can still book a unit for far less than retail/taxes than the average Joe can. We did our calculations and we decided that keeping our Wyndham points and booking through Wyndham (not RCI) was still cost effective....worth it. 

One thing that stands out is that we calculated that, based upon Wyndham's normal points cost v RCI exchange (w/points discount plus exchange fee), we end up paying roughly $90 MORE per week by depositing with RCI and paying the exchange fee...whisch is now $199. This makes Wyndham much more flexible than RCI now because of their cancellation policy and the fact that we do not have to use a full week's worth of points. Add in the cost of cancellation insurance with RCI and well..fuggitabowtit!

Another negative working against this new arrangement is that the poorly rated properties now require a high amount of points to book there. They will be receiving even less RCI traffic than before.  After all,who would want to spend 74k points on a dog property? 

One thing that I was told by RCI was that the discounts and free upgrades still apply on properties that are found by an ongoing search that are 30 days or LESS from the date of travel. Ongoing searches cost $20 more but may be worth it in this respect. The freebies do NOT show up on an online search 30 days or less out from the travel date.  

One thing I do not like is that one cannot search online for units by points cost. I'd like to be able to find units that are available within a certain points value. 

A final point.  Wyndham owners no longer can 'jump the line' and receive priority treatment by having other Wyndham properties being made available to them in their searches. This is a major disappointment to us because we have stayed at many Wyndham properties and have found them to be of high quality...except for one.  

A very important point to remember when booking through the wyndham vacation resorts website. The resort specials are great deals! If you can get a points discount thru Wyndham, you should not even call RCI. For example: when searching for Wyndham properties serviced by RCI I compared the points costs for Fairfield Glade RCI v Fairfield Glade via the Wyndham website in January/February.  The points are presently discounted at Fairfield Glade,TN Wyndham through the wyndham website. The results were clear. For seven nights through RCI, 74k points gets you a 1BR...plus you pay the exchange fee. For 74k points thru Wyndham vacation resorts (same time frame) at Fairfield Glade with the discount, you get a 2BR lockoff!


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