# Interesting Excerpt from Oct 2014 Bay club meeting minutes



## Jason245 (Apr 7, 2015)

Was just looking over HOA docs when I noticed this discussion item

"Review the association policy of the Bay Club owner having to prepay their maintenance fee before they can use their ownership interest.– Moved to the November meeting."

Also

"New Business
 Mr. Gunthner discussed the proposal from the Hilton Waikoloa to resurvey the ownership about 
 having an agreement with the hotel to use their amenities. Further information will be gathered 
 and presented at the November meeting."


I wish the November meeting minutes were available so I could find out the resolution on this.  It would be AWESOME if bay club changed the policy to be in line with other HGVC properties and make my ownership even better. The ammeneties improvement would be nice too.


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## b2bailey (Apr 7, 2015)

My comment is on the first line item -- are they saying someone would question the need to pay their maintenance fee before using resort? I thought that was standard.


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## brp (Apr 7, 2015)

Jason245 said:


> "New Business
> Mr. Gunthner discussed the proposal from the Hilton Waikoloa to resurvey the ownership about
> having an agreement with the hotel to use their amenities. Further information will be gathered
> and presented at the November meeting."
> ...



Thanks for the update!

We don't own there, but we use our other HGVC points to stay there not infrequently (we bought in Vegas with the specific intent to stay at Bay Club). If this also applied to all people staying on HGVC points (and not just owners), that would be cool for us.

As to "in line with other HGVC properties" - the main consideration is that this is not an HGVC property, but an affiliate, so there is justification for a difference if they do decide to keep it.

Cheers.


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## PigsDad (Apr 7, 2015)

b2bailey said:


> My comment is on the first line item -- are they saying someone would question the need to pay their maintenance fee before using resort? I thought that was standard.



That is NOT standard for a HGVC ownership.  The requirement to pre-pay maintenance fees only affects a few HGVC affiliated properties, Bay club being one of them.

Kurt


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## PigsDad (Apr 7, 2015)

brp said:


> As to "in line with other HGVC properties" - the main consideration is that this is not an HGVC property, but an affiliate, so there is justification for a difference if they do decide to keep it.



One could also argue that Bay Club should align more with other _affiliate _properties.  I think if you look into it, you would find that Bay Club is one of the few affiliates that require pre-payment of MFs in order to use points.

Kurt


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## brp (Apr 7, 2015)

PigsDad said:


> One could also argue that Bay Club should align more with other _affiliate _properties.  I think if you look into it, you would find that Bay Club is one of the few affiliates that require pre-payment of MFs in order to use points.
> 
> Kurt



Thanks for the perspective. I was not aware of the rules for the other affiliates in this regard.

I'm still unclear on this point, though. Dues for HGVC properties are due in like mid-January, IIRC (mrs. brp takes care of these, so I may be off). So, there are only a couple of weeks where points could be used before paying. Or, are you saying that you can't even book into year 20XX before paying the dues, even if trying to book in year 20XX-1?

Cheers.


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## Jason245 (Apr 7, 2015)

brp said:


> Thanks for the perspective. I was not aware of the rules for the other affiliates in this regard.
> 
> I'm still unclear on this point, though. Dues for HGVC properties are due in like mid-January, IIRC (mrs. brp takes care of these, so I may be off). So, there are only a couple of weeks where points could be used before paying. Or, are you saying that you can't even book into year 20XX before paying the dues, even if trying to book in year 20XX-1?
> 
> Cheers.



HGVC lets you borrow next years points before paying MF at many resorts. 

For bay club, you need to pay your MF before borrowing points.


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## buzglyd (Apr 7, 2015)

Jason245 said:


> HGVC lets you borrow next years points before paying MF at many resorts.
> 
> For bay club, you need to pay your MF before borrowing points.



That's interesting.

Seapointe will let me take next year's points but I have to call and ask for them (sometimes twice). I don't have to prepay.


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## PassionForTravel (Apr 8, 2015)

I saw those items as well a few weeks ago and was wondering about the resolution. It seems weird that the minutes aren't posted for a meeting which occurred 5 months ago. Although I've never noticed the meeting minutes being posted in a timely manner.

Ian


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## alwysonvac (Apr 8, 2015)

In 2012, Bay Club owners weren't interested in the hotel amenities. I'm assuming to avoid a Maintenance Fee increase.

See  this thread - http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=179820


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## brp (Apr 8, 2015)

alwysonvac said:


> In 2012, Bay Club owners weren't interested in the hotel amenities. I'm assuming to avoid a Maintenance Fee increase.
> 
> See  this thread - http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=179820



I wonder if it would really have to be a lot. Relative to the size of the hotel, the Bay Club is small. I think that the number of people that would want to schlep down there, either on foot or by car, would be a relatively small fraction.

Perhaps the hotel sees that as well and has figured that they would more than make up for the access in parking fees and sales of concessions like food, drink and any equipment rentals.

Pure speculation on my part, but I think it's within the realm of reason. Since the note in the OP states that the proposal came from the hotel, and the owner base is probably not substantially different from three years ago, I would assume that they came with a different proposal.

Cheers.


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## Jason245 (Apr 8, 2015)

brp said:


> I wonder if it would really have to be a lot. Relative to the size of the hotel, the Bay Club is small. I think that the number of people that would want to schlep down there, either on foot or by car, would be a relatively small fraction.
> 
> Perhaps the hotel sees that as well and has figured that they would more than make up for the access in parking fees and sales of concessions like food, drink and any equipment rentals.
> 
> ...



As an owner, I have the following opinion:

1. If the HOA is charged for use of those ammenities, I want some type of revenue sharing agreement on concessions and parking and whatnot.  

2. If there is no charge for the use of ammenities, this agreement makes my ownership more valuable and integrated with the Hilton family (reducing risk of losing affliliation with HGVC), and I am all for it.


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## alwysonvac (Apr 8, 2015)

Jason245 said:


> As an owner, I have the following opinion:
> 
> 1. If the HOA is charged for use of those ammenities, I want some type of revenue sharing agreement on concessions and parking and whatnot.
> 
> 2. If there is no charge for the use of ammenities, this agreement makes my ownership more valuable and integrated with the Hilton family (reducing risk of losing affliliation with HGVC), and I am all for it.



JMHO...It's probably better to "pay per use" rather than have it built into your annual maintenance fee since all owners might not visit their home resort every year and on some home visit they might not even use the hotel amenities.

I'm assuming the access charge is already built into Waikoloa and Kings Land's Annual Maintenance Fee (perhaps at a lower group rate).

It's my understanding that Bay Club owners can buy a guest pass today to use the Hotel pool. I remember reading that the 2013 Rate was $80/day, or $150 for 3 days for a family of 4. So I won't expect Hilton to all of the sudden give it up for free or do any type of revenue sharing.


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## brp (Apr 8, 2015)

alwysonvac said:


> It's my understanding that Bay Club owners can buy a guest pass today to use the Hotel pool. I remember reading that the 2013 Rate was $80/day, or $150 for 3 days for a family of 4. So I won't expect Hilton to all of the sudden give it up for free or do any type of revenue sharing.



I would guess (speculation again) the very few people would really pay this. If so, they're not making much actual money on it. In that case, adding a few people relative to the number that they already have, and reaping the revenue from concessions, could make sense.

Cheers.


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## Bill4728 (Apr 9, 2015)

alwysonvac said:


> It's my understanding that Bay Club owners can buy a guest pass today to use the Hotel pool. I remember reading that the 2013 Rate was $80/day, or $150 for 3 days for a family of 4. So I won't expect Hilton to all of the sudden give it up for free or do any type of revenue sharing.


We stayed at the HGVC Waikoloa prior to King's land and enjoyed use of the pools for free. If we had stayed at the bay club instead, I think having the option of pay per use is a good one.  We may have used it at least 1 day.


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## 1Kflyerguy (Apr 10, 2015)

I can see both sides of this argument.. If i had young kids I would definitely stay someplace with a great pool, or at least access to a super pool.. But now that my son is grown, its less important.. 

I don't own at Bay Club, but if I did, i think my vote would depend on how much extra pool access would add to my annual MF.

I wonder if the resale value would be impacted up or down if Bay Club included hotel pool access.


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## glwrenton (Apr 29, 2015)

*Cost*

Seems to me that there was recently a survey asking if owners were willing to pay $100 more to use the facilities and it did not go over well.


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## TheWizz (May 4, 2015)

buzglyd said:


> That's interesting.
> 
> Seapointe will let me take next year's points but I have to call and ask for them (sometimes twice). I don't have to prepay.



Same applies to GP Palisades.  I just called a few months ago and asked for my 2016 points to be deposited into HGVC.  Three days later, they were there.  Two main diffs I've seen between HGVC owned resorts and affiliates regarding points deposits: (1) you have to call each year to deposit into HGVC, not automatic; (2) can only borrow one year out, not two.


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## Jason245 (May 5, 2015)

I just got access to the meeting minutes for November:

Items of note: 

*The prepay requirement is gone.* :whoopie::whoopie:
Bay club will not be paying or getting access to the extra pools (no surprise)


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## ConejoRed (May 7, 2015)

Just closed on a Bay Club unit so this is good news.  Just waiting for HGVC to record the transfer so I can make a 2016 reservation.  Are the minutes actually posted somewhere that other can access?


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## PassionForTravel (May 7, 2015)

Yes they are posted in the HGVC website after you log in. I think the menu items are My Ownership, My HOA.


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## Jason245 (May 7, 2015)

ConejoRed said:


> Just closed on a Bay Club unit so this is good news.  Just waiting for HGVC to record the transfer so I can make a 2016 reservation.  Are the minutes actually posted somewhere that other can access?


I am waiting for my second transfer as well.  Was sent in to hilton on may 4.. when was yours?  I don't think you will be able to access the minutes until you get your ownership transferred  (unless you have another unit there).


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## brp (May 8, 2015)

Jason245 said:


> I just got access to the meeting minutes for November:
> 
> Items of note:
> 
> ...



Was there an indication of what the terms offered by the Hotel were? As someone who trades in with Flamingo points, it would have been nice to have this but, again, as someone not paying for it, I have no complaint with owners voting as they see fit 

Cheers.


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## Jason245 (May 8, 2015)

brp said:


> Was there an indication of what the terms offered by the Hotel were? As someone who trades in with Flamingo points, it would have been nice to have this but, again, as someone not paying for it, I have no complaint with owners voting as they see fit
> 
> Cheers.



They indicated that the last survey a few years ago had 56% of owners say no. they decided not to survey owners again. No info on pricing, but I assume it is whatever they are paying now but included in MF instead of on individual level. 

Personally, I would vote no on those terms and any term that would increase my MF for pool access to a unit that I will never use (as I don't intend to ever stay at the resort or maybe stay once or twice in my life).


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## frank808 (May 8, 2015)

I also read the hoa meeting minutes.  I thought that the prepaying of maintenance fee for next use year was supported.  Board supported idea but was supposed to be brought up at the spring meeting.  There was no passage of that resolution from what i have read.  Was it passed and implemented recently?  Thanks


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## Jason245 (May 8, 2015)

frank808 said:


> I also read the hoa meeting minutes.  I thought that the prepaying of maintenance fee for next use year was supported.  Board supported idea but was supposed to be brought up at the spring meeting.  There was no passage of that resolution from what i have read.  Was it passed and implemented recently?  Thanks


I read that it was approved and that management was going to present implementation plan in spring.


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## Jason245 (May 12, 2015)

Jason245 said:


> I am waiting for my second transfer as well.  Was sent in to hilton on may 4.. when was yours?  I don't think you will be able to access the minutes until you get your ownership transferred  (unless you have another unit there).



My ownership transfered today, and I called to have them send me enrollment form. 

That is my timeframe in case anyone needs comparison.


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## mjack47 (May 14, 2015)

I am in the middle of closing on a Bay Club unit. I emailed HGVC today on this very question. The answer was, Yes you still have to prepay MF before you can book for next year. For example if I wanted to book today for a 2016 vacation, I would have to pay my 2016 MF now.


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## Jason245 (May 14, 2015)

mjack47 said:


> I am in the middle of closing on a Bay Club unit. I emailed HGVC today on this very question. The answer was, Yes you still have to prepay MF before you can book for next year. For example if I wanted to book today for a 2016 vacation, I would have to pay my 2016 MF now.



I have all my points for next year loaded into my account and it is giving me the option to borrow.  I have not paid MF for next year. 

I think you should wait and see.

I now think that Bay club ownership has gotten more valuable.


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## ConejoRed (May 16, 2015)

Just got our new Bay Club purchase HGVC account set up and it also has the 2016 points showing (it is an EOY Even unit). Need to contact them now about making an Home Week reservation for next year (did not see that it could be done online) so will see if that requires the prepayment of the maintenance fees and will report back on what I am told.


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## Jason245 (May 17, 2015)

I just borrowed points for a reservation without needing to pay for MF.


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## TTom (May 18, 2015)

*Different story?*

I had a conversation with a rep at HGVC last week, who indicated that Bay Club maint fees had to be paid in order to use those points. I did confirm that I had rolled 2015 points to 2016 and could borrow them back, but the Rep seemed confused about points rolled forward.

Still have to get straight information, since the story I got seemed to indicate that there was no particular value to rolling points forward and borrowing them back. If what she said was correct, the timeline for usage remains the same, but that doesn't track with anything I have ever heard before. Oh well,...

Tom


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## ConejoRed (May 18, 2015)

I just faxed them a Home Week reservation request for 2016.  I included the requested CC information on the form and will post back on whether they charge the card or not (assuming the week I requested is available).  I tried calling them several times today (had questions as a new owner), but no answer so I just faxed the form and asked for a confirmation that the fax was received via email so we will see...


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## SmithOp (May 18, 2015)

They are on Hawaii time, its only 10am there.


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## ConejoRed (May 18, 2015)

SmithOp said:


> They are on Hawaii time, its only 10am there.



Guess I will have to learn that when their phone message indicated 8:00 Hawaii time, it really means later than that  

I actually got a call back from them confirming the home week request so I am happy! I was going for the week after Easter which I know is a high demand so was happy to learn that it was still available and we will have a penthouse unit (which is what I own).  So far, have not received notice that my credit card was charged in order to make the reservation (I get an email notice any time anything is charged to my CC for security purposes), but do see that the points were deducted from my 2016 points balance so unless they charge the card later, it looks like they may have updated all their procedures and Bay Club Home Week reservations (and club) can now be made without pre-payment of maintenance fees.   Not sure if this will end up being a good thing as I think the pre-payment requirement kept a lot of people from booking a 2016 this far out in the past (could be wrong) and since I own a EOY, it would not have been that big of a deal to prepay the fee since I will not be paying it every year.


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## SmithOp (May 19, 2015)

I took this picture last week on Maui, breakfast served all day, well sort of based on the opening time.





BTW, your handle remind me of our airport conejo rojo 

http://anewscafe.com/2011/10/25/red-rabbit-leaps-into-conversations-about-new-sac-airport-terminal/


Sent from my iPad using the strange new version of Tapatalk


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## ConejoRed (May 19, 2015)

comes from a combination of growing up in the Conejo (Rabbit) Valley in So Cal and hair color! .  Empirical evidence of Hawaii Time......


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