# Rental value of HGVC?



## TDub1313 (Jun 23, 2019)

Just as a rough idea...
It seems HGVC isn’t at the top of the list for renting out points, for several reasons. But... is there a a general point at which HGVC owners rent to family and friends if they have excess points?  If I had more points than I could use/save (and/or couldn’t go along with, to treat) and I had a taker, what would be a reasonable request for a cash fee?  Is it worth buying a new contract to have a few thousand extra points to try to recoup some/all of MF buy renting to those who are close to me and not gouging?  Somewhere in the the range of MF/PP?  Such as $.17-.20 per point?  Am I way off base here?  I would appreciate the feedback on general guidelines. It seems the Wyndham folds are big on this, but is seems less so with HGVC. Or is there an open marker that I’m not aware of that will bring more. Thoughts?
Thanks.


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## SmithOp (Jun 23, 2019)

I think you are a little low on cost, I shoot for .25 a point and I’m still cheaper than what hilton dot com rents for.

That covers my maint fee, club fee, reservation fee, guest certificate fee and amortized upfront costs.


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## terces (Jun 23, 2019)

I seem to recall that HGVC has blocked those that are attempting to use Airbnb to rent their units out.


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## Janann (Jun 23, 2019)

terces said:


> I seem to recall that HGVC has blocked those that are attempting to use Airbnb to rent their units out.


  The OP said that this would be just a "friends and family" transaction, so Airbnb wouldn't be needed.




TDub1313 said:


> what would be a reasonable request for a cash fee?



You might want to compare your requested rental fee to the open market.  Your friends/family won't be happy if they later find out you are charging more than an arms length transaction.


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## bizaro86 (Jun 23, 2019)

terces said:


> I seem to recall that HGVC has blocked those that are attempting to use Airbnb to rent their units out.



Anyone have a thread on that? I've considered using airbnb to pick up an odd HGVC night I've needed, but don't want to do that if it's going to get cancelled...


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## CalGalTraveler (Jun 23, 2019)

terces said:


> I seem to recall that HGVC has blocked those that are attempting to use Airbnb to rent their units out.



I dont think this could apply to renting out your home week. If you are renting points that would be verboten.


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## tompalm (Jun 23, 2019)

I usually rent at my cost and explain about the reservation cost and name change cost. With those included, I have rented studios at $65 per night in Las Vegas and $95 per night at Lagoon tower in Hawaii. My cost would have been cheaper if I had bought 7000 points with the same maintenance fee, but most people are happy to get a nice room at a low price. I never try to make money off friends or family. At the end of the day, most people are impressed that I own a timeshare with cost so cheap.


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## PigsDad (Jun 23, 2019)

Personally, I would never try to profit on "renting" to friends and family.  I have just figured out my costs (MFs + fees) and offered it to them at that price.  But that is just me.

Kurt


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## Tamaradarann (Jun 23, 2019)

PigsDad said:


> Personally, I would never try to profit on "renting" to friends and family.  I have just figured out my costs (MFs + fees) and offered it to them at that price.  But that is just me.
> 
> Kurt



I have not rented to friends and family.  I have reserved accommodations for family to come and join us for a spectacular 3 Bedroom Condo in the Lagoon Tower.  I have rented to none friends and family for what I considered a good rate for a special event in South Beach when I had surplus points before being retired.  Since being retired we vacation about 150 days a year so I usually don't have any surplus points to rent to anyone.  I don't know what I would do if I did have surplus, but I think I agree with others that I wouldn't charge anymore than my costs or if it was close family just give them the week.


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## TDub1313 (Jun 23, 2019)

I certainly don’t intend to make a profit off of family or friends. It seems the general rule is at “my cost.”  MF/PP+booking fees wouldn’t be unreasonable. Has anyone bought extra low cost points to use what you can and “rent” to cover costs. The idea being to “rent” out points now but have more personal use out of them in the early retirement years?  Or is that far fetched?


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## PigsDad (Jun 24, 2019)

TDub1313 said:


> I certainly don’t intend to make a profit off of family or friends. It seems the general rule is at “my cost.”  MF/PP+booking fees wouldn’t be unreasonable. Has anyone bought extra low cost points to use what you can and “rent” to cover costs. The idea being to “rent” out points now but have more personal use out of them in the early retirement years?  Or is that far fetched?


According to the HGVC rules, an owner can only rent out their Home Week reservations, so if you owned at a popular place that might work.

Kurt


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## Tamaradarann (Jun 24, 2019)

TDub1313 said:


> I certainly don’t intend to make a profit off of family or friends. It seems the general rule is at “my cost.”  MF/PP+booking fees wouldn’t be unreasonable. Has anyone bought extra low cost points to use what you can and “rent” to cover costs. The idea being to “rent” out points now but have more personal use out of them in the early retirement years?  Or is that far fetched?



The rental to none friends that I mentioned above was an example of the situation that you describe.  We bought more timeshares in the last 3 years before we retired with more points than we could use while still working.  We did save some of the points to build up a bank.  Since it was a special event time period in South Beach we rented at about $300/night for a 1 BR apartment when small hotel rooms were going for over $300/night.


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## brp (Jun 24, 2019)

TDub1313 said:


> I certainly don’t intend to make a profit off of family or friends. It seems the general rule is at “my cost.”



When it comes to renting points, the definition of "friends" can be far-reaching. Some "friends" would definitely be at-cost. Others, maybe not 

In that case, I think the rate would be location-dependent.

Cheers.


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## TDub1313 (Jun 24, 2019)

I did not realize this was the case. Home week only...  is this something that they enforce such as they won’t issues a guest certificate if it is outside of home week?  I’m not asking to try to beat the system just want to know before we seriously consider another contract....

“According to the HGVC rules, an owner can only rent out their Home Week reservations, so if you owned at a popular place that might work.”


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## terces (Jun 24, 2019)

I don't think there would be much value in renting out your home week if it was in Vegas.  Another way to use up your excess points is to use them to pay your MF's.  I think that option is worth around $0.10 per point but not completely sure of my information.


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## SmithOp (Jun 24, 2019)

I dont think the rule is enforced, why should HGV care they are getting their fees and have no problem renting themselves.  

You can get guest certs for club reservations.  There are point rental ads all over the internet.  Look at eBay.

I think you can only use bonus points to pay maint fees.

I dont know why people are adverse to a reasonable profit for taking a risk renting to friends and family, how often do they back out at the last minute and leave you stuck?


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## brp (Jun 24, 2019)

SmithOp said:


> I dont know why people are adverse to a reasonable profit for taking a risk renting to friends and family, how often do they back out at the last minute and leave you stuck?



For actual family, I would not rent. I would give. We take them with us, though, rather than making reservations. One time we did a bigger trip with some family and friends of theirs that we also know. Family got the rooms free. Their friends got the rooms for what it would have cost to rent from Hilton (and they saved the resort fees).

Other "friends," well, that's a different story...

Cheers.


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## hurnik (Jun 24, 2019)

TDub1313 said:


> I did not realize this was the case. Home week only...  is this something that they enforce such as they won’t issues a guest certificate if it is outside of home week?  I’m not asking to try to beat the system just want to know before we seriously consider another contract....
> 
> “According to the HGVC rules, an owner can only rent out their Home Week reservations, so if you owned at a popular place that might work.”



According to the Rules (you can download the PDF from the HGV website), renting your homeweek is the only "approved" option.  You can get a Guest Certificate for anyone.

Now, whether you rent out a points week (non-home week) is a different story.  Can you?  Yes.  But it's against the rules.  although I'm not aware of anyone getting shutdown by Hilton for doing so.

I have been reimbursed by family when using my points (my cost of the points on a MF/point basis, plus the booking/Guest cert fees).  It still provides them a very cheap (comparatively) stay.

If one were to rent out to non-family, the only way you're going to probably break even or "make" some money is with a high-demand place (Hawaii-Honolulu) or timeframe (ie: Christmas, spring break, etc.).  You could go onto redweek.com and look at the rental ask prices for various Hilton locations to get a guesstimate of what will rent for what (just because it's asked doesn't mean it was received, LOL).

I don't think Vegas is a good option for renting for profit, unless possibly you can get an Event week.  Although if you were to have to break even, it's better than losing your points, but typically you have plenty of options with that (save them into next year, or deposit into RCI, etc.)


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## terces (Jun 24, 2019)

I've heard that Wyndam has a problem with a few Airbnb operators using their system as a business with the result that inventory that would normally be available to the members is taken up by renters through Airbnb.  Thankfully HGVC seems to have thwarted this so far.


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## Tamaradarann (Jun 25, 2019)

SmithOp said:


> I dont think the rule is enforced, why should HGV care they are getting their fees and have no problem renting themselves.
> 
> You can get guest certs for club reservations.  There are point rental ads all over the internet.  Look at eBay.
> 
> ...



I understand your comment about friends and family; "they back out at the last minute and leave you stuck".  That's why we insist on knowing they bought the plane tickets for the timeframe of the reservation before we book a plane oriented vacation for them.  For driving ones we would be stuck.  Of course with the HGVC system you can move the reservation to a future date and save the points so you would only be out the relatively small reservation fee.


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## SmithOp (Jun 25, 2019)

Here is an real world example of my .25 a point fee:

A “friend” asked about a 2br at Seaworld this week, 26-29th.

Using points is 2800 x .25 = $700
Open Season is $650, not allowed for “friends”
Hilton dot com, best I could find was a 1br at $256/night = $768

So I’m sticking to my original answer, .25/point.  Some will make a little at this rate, others break even or lose a little depending on your maint fee per point ratio.


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## terces (Jun 25, 2019)

SmithOp said:


> I dont think the rule is enforced, why should HGV care they are getting their fees and have no problem renting themselves.
> 
> You can get guest certs for club reservations.  There are point rental ads all over the internet.  Look at eBay.
> 
> ...


This topic leans towards people acquiring timeshares to then rent out through Airbnb.  This has happened at Wyndam and available inventory is snapped up by the rent-for-profit operators.  This can make it much more difficult for legitimate owners to compete for the holiday accommodation that they signed up for.  I am sure the Airbnb type of operators will continue to try, but I sure hope HGVC has the ability to continue to shut them down.  I for one will report any Airbnb renters that I detect in an HGVC


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## 4Sunsets (Jun 25, 2019)

TDub1313 said:


> Just as a rough idea...
> It seems HGVC isn’t at the top of the list for renting out points, for several reasons. But... is there a a general point at which HGVC owners rent to family and friends if they have excess points?  If I had more points than I could use/save (and/or couldn’t go along with, to treat) and I had a taker, what would be a reasonable request for a cash fee?  Is it worth buying a new contract to have a few thousand extra points to try to recoup some/all of MF buy renting to those who are close to me and not gouging?  Somewhere in the the range of MF/PP?  Such as $.17-.20 per point?  Am I way off base here?  I would appreciate the feedback on general guidelines. It seems the Wyndham folds are big on this, but is seems less so with HGVC. Or is there an open marker that I’m not aware of that will bring more. Thoughts?
> Thanks.



Buying extra because you think family might use can go sideways fast. Unfortunately, you may end up on the losing end more often than you think when family cancels on you and you get stuck with a reservation you can't use. Family also tends to think they don't have to pay you / you are overcharging them / whatever. If family wants weeks, better to steer them to resale weeks for themselves, at least imho. that way they are entirely responsible for the costs and fees and you dont have to worry about it.


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## Tamaradarann (Jun 26, 2019)

4Sunsets said:


> Buying extra because you think family might use can go sideways fast. Unfortunately, you may end up on the losing end more often than you think when family cancels on you and you get stuck with a reservation you can't use. Family also tends to think they don't have to pay you / you are overcharging them / whatever. If family wants weeks, better to steer them to resale weeks for themselves, at least imho. that way they are entirely responsible for the costs and fees and you dont have to worry about it.



I agree with NOT purchasing a property because you think family MIGHT use them!   If this is a close part of your family that you have or have jointly planned on having vacation with you in the future then getting the extra points may be a good idea,  if you can you use the points for vacations in the future if plans fall through with these family members?

We have used points to vacation with our Daughter, Son-in-law and Grandchildren for many years, however, the Grandchildren are at the College entering stages of their lives and no longer take those vacations with school being their primary focus in life.
We are using those points to extend our winters in Honolulu until sometime in spring.


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## brp (Jun 26, 2019)

Tamaradarann said:


> I agree with NOT purchasing a property because you think family MIGHT use them!   If this is a close part of your family that you have or have jointly planned on having vacation with you in the future then getting the extra points may be a good idea,  if you can you use the points for vacations in the future if plans fall through with these family members?
> 
> We have used points to vacation with our Daughter, Son-in-law and Grandchildren for many years, however, the



We don't have any kids (so gradnkids are unlikely), but I have a brother with family and mrs. brp has 4 brothers. These are the people we take with us on trips (Disnye-DVC, Hawaii, NYC, Orlando-HGVC). They are our guests and pay nothing. And they closest they've come to backing out was the time I booked a 2BR at Kohala in anticipation of a trip with them. They never committed in the first place, and couldn't make it. So, speculation on my part 

They're not the backout type, in general, and they will never pay for a point.

We've also brought some close friends with the same rules - they pay nothing for the accommodations. They are our guests.

We also have a "friend" or two that are different 

Cheers.


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## CalGalTraveler (Jun 26, 2019)

We do reimburse some trips to W57 in NYC though work by applying a prorated portion of the maintenance fee. Haven't thought about applying portion of purchase price but not worth doing because it would be a hassle to justify if audited and don't want to create unnecessary tensions at DH job. 

However I would consider for my own firm when I need to visit NYC for business, but hardest part would be determining the years of amortization to apply. Is there an IRS guideline for that?


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## junk (Jun 27, 2019)

TDub1313 said:


> Just as a rough idea...
> It seems HGVC isn’t at the top of the list for renting out points, for several reasons. But... is there a a general point at which HGVC owners rent to family and friends if they have excess points?  If I had more points than I could use/save (and/or couldn’t go along with, to treat) and I had a taker, what would be a reasonable request for a cash fee?  Is it worth buying a new contract to have a few thousand extra points to try to recoup some/all of MF buy renting to those who are close to me and not gouging?  Somewhere in the the range of MF/PP?  Such as $.17-.20 per point?  Am I way off base here?  I would appreciate the feedback on general guidelines. It seems the Wyndham folds are big on this, but is seems less so with HGVC. Or is there an open marker that I’m not aware of that will bring more. Thoughts?
> Thanks.



I use value of $0.30/point to calculate the amortization of purchase price.


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## Mitzi Witt (Jul 5, 2019)

PigsDad said:


> According to the HGVC rules, an owner can only rent out their Home Week reservations, so if you owned at a popular place that might work.
> 
> Kurt


I had an owners update in Myrtle Beach a couple years ago.  They were promoting adding 4th of July week there or NYE in Vegas to rent for big $$ and cover all maintenance fees.  The sales guy pulled up an airbnb listing showing a condo in MB for $700 / night over the 4th.  Seemed a bit shady on their part, IMO.


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## dayooper (Jul 5, 2019)

Mitzi Witt said:


> I had an owners update in Myrtle Beach a couple years ago.  They were promoting adding 4th of July week there or NYE in Vegas to rent for big $$ and cover all maintenance fees.  The sales guy pulled up an airbnb listing showing a condo in MB for $700 / night over the 4th.  *Seemed a bit shady on their part, IMO.*




Yup, it what they do. Be shady to get you to purchase.


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## PigsDad (Jul 5, 2019)

Mitzi Witt said:


> I had an owners update in Myrtle Beach a couple years ago.  They were promoting adding 4th of July week there or NYE in Vegas to rent for big $$ and cover all maintenance fees.  The sales guy pulled up an airbnb listing showing a condo in MB for $700 / night over the 4th.  Seemed a bit shady on their part, IMO.


So I obviously wasn't there to hear what was said (and I'm certainly not defending the sales staff), but if you own a Platinum week at on of those locations, it would be perfectly within the rules to make a Home Week reservation and rent it out.  Not sure if you could get $700/night for a full week, though... 

Kurt


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## magmue (Jul 6, 2019)

Sorta like eBay - just because someone is asking that price doesn't mean they are getting that price. Some folks are very aspirational when they set prices.
For all we know, a sales person could have listed it at that price to pull up "randomly" during their sales pitch.


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## terces (Jul 6, 2019)

Here is an excerpt from the June issue of HGVC Traveller.  Does anyone dispute what they are saying in #2 "Renting your timeshare exchange benefits is against the rules of your vacation ownership program."

*Most Common Exit Fraud Schemes*
The four most common types of third-party exit company fraud schemes are:


*Elimination of Maintenance Fees*
Scammers may promise to eliminate your HOA or maintenance fees, which are used to operate your resort and keep it updated. The scammers may claim that fees are going up and attempt to scare you about rising costs. While your HOA fees may naturally go up as costs increase to operate a property, your HOA board approves all maintenance fees and expenses.


*Rental Opportunities*
Scammers may claim to be able to rent your timeshare or say you have unused benefits from which you can profit. Remember: Renting your timeshare exchange benefits is against the rules of your vacation ownership program.


*Offers to Buy or Sell Your Timeshare*
Beware of callers or emails guaranteeing to sell your timeshare within a certain amount of time. There is no set amount of time for the sale of a vacation ownership interest, as it all depends on consumer supply and demand.


*Paid Ownership Transfer*
Scammers may promise to transfer your paid-off ownership to another party for a substantial fee. Often these transfers never take place or are fraudulent, leaving you in the dark until you’re forced into foreclosure.


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## SmithOp (Jul 6, 2019)

I think its consistent with club rules that state no “commercial” rentals allowed.  Having a third party agree to advertise and rent for an owner falls under commercial rental imo.  This article is about scammers that claim to have corporate rental clients for outrageous high prices, all the owner has to do is pay a fee to list with them, a scam, no rental ever materializes.


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## Tamaradarann (Jul 6, 2019)

terces said:


> Here is an excerpt from the June issue of HGVC Traveller.  Does anyone dispute what they are saying in #2 "Renting your timeshare exchange benefits is against the rules of your vacation ownership program."
> 
> *Most Common Exit Fraud Schemes*
> The four most common types of third-party exit company fraud schemes are:
> ...



I don't dispute #2.  However, I will make a comment about #1.  While the HOA maintenance fees and expenses are approved by the HOA, sometimes there is a stacked HOA.  Don't ask me how it happens because I don't know but:  Some of the Hilton Grand Vacation Club Timeshares had executives that worked for HGVC on the HOA.  HGVC didn't have a controlling interest, however, they did have some influence.  Also, TUG members that own the Manhattan Club in New York City have stated on the TUG Forum that a majority of the HOA worked for the Developer of the Manhattan Club Timeshare and voted to approve expenses.  Maintenance fees grew to more that $3,000/week.  That developer has been bought out by Bluegreen and hopefully the operation is overhauled and changed for the better.


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## PigsDad (Jul 6, 2019)

terces said:


> Here is an excerpt from the June issue of HGVC Traveller.  Does anyone dispute what they are saying in #2 "Renting your timeshare *exchange benefits* is against the rules of your vacation ownership program."


I think the key word is what I highlighted -- *exchange *benefits.  IOW, weeks or reservations that you can get by exchanging your ownership for something else (and then renting it out).  I think they are referring to the common scam where an outfit will approach you and say they can rent out the "RCI bonus weeks" (or some similar terminology) that you, as an owner, can obtain.  Of course, not only will they ask for an up-front fee, it is also against RCI's rules to rent out any reservation (exchange, last call, etc.) you obtain through them.

I believe it is perfectly ok to rent out any Home Week reservation that you make via your ownership.  Club Season reservations I think would fall under the "exchange benefits", so it makes sense that you are not allowed to rent those out.

At least that is the way I interpret the wording.  Thoughts?

Kurt


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## Tamaradarann (Jul 7, 2019)

PigsDad said:


> I think the key word is what I highlighted -- *exchange *benefits.  IOW, weeks or reservations that you can get by exchanging your ownership for something else (and then renting it out).  I think they are referring to the common scam where an outfit will approach you and say they can rent out the "RCI bonus weeks" (or some similar terminology) that you, as an owner, can obtain.  Of course, not only will they ask for an up-front fee, it is also against RCI's rules to rent out any reservation (exchange, last call, etc.) you obtain through them.
> 
> I believe it is perfectly ok to rent out any Home Week reservation that you make via your ownership.  Club Season reservations I think would fall under the "exchange benefits", so it makes sense that you are not allowed to rent those out.
> 
> ...


Totally agree with your interpretation.  Now while it does violate your interpretation in part, do you feel that it is OK for friends and family to reimburse you for some or all of your costs of a reservation that you make for them?  I will break it down to 1 make for them and your are NOT accompanying them; and 2 Make for them and you will be part of the group in a large accommodation?


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## GT75 (Jul 7, 2019)

When you make a guest certification, here is one item which you must acknowledge;

_I acknowledge that my guests are my immediate family and/or personally known and acquainted with me and that use of the Club for commercial purposes of Members or their guests including the use of a confirmed reservation for any rental, resale or other commercial use (other than an owner’s Home Week) is strictly forbidden. Reservations made through a commercial rental business are subject to cancellation._


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## terces (Jul 7, 2019)

SmithOp said:


> I think its consistent with club rules that state no “commercial” rentals allowed.  Having a third party agree to advertise and rent for an owner falls under commercial rental imo.  This article is about scammers that claim to have corporate rental clients for outrageous high prices, all the owner has to do is pay a fee to list with them, a scam, no rental ever materializes.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro





GT75 said:


> When you make a guest certification, here is one item which you must acknowledge;
> 
> _I acknowledge that my guests are my immediate family and/or personally known and acquainted with me and that use of the Club for commercial purposes of Members or their guests including the use of a confirmed reservation for any rental, resale or other commercial use (other than an owner’s Home Week) is strictly forbidden. Reservations made through a commercial rental business are subject to cancellation._


So, my take on this is that you can in fact rent out your Homeweek, but it cannot be rented through a commercial business.  That should mean that reservations through Airbnb and VRBO et all are not allowed, and they could be cancelled at any time including when some poorly informed renter is standing at the check in desk, or even after he/she has checked in.  Any other use of points or weeks for renting out a unit is specifically not allowed.


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## PigsDad (Jul 7, 2019)

Tamaradarann said:


> Totally agree with your interpretation.  Now while it does violate your interpretation in part, do you feel that it is OK for friends and family to reimburse you for some or all of your costs of a reservation that you make for them?  I will break it down to 1 make for them and your are NOT accompanying them; and 2 Make for them and you will be part of the group in a large accommodation?


Personally, I see no issue w/ getting reimbursed from family/friends, and I think the wording that GT75 quoted above supports that -- it would not fall under the "commercial rental", I would think.

Kurt


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## PigsDad (Jul 7, 2019)

terces said:


> So, my take on this is that you can in fact rent out your Homeweek, but it cannot be rented through a commercial business.  That should mean that reservations through Airbnb and VRBO et all are not allowed, and they could be cancelled at any time including when some poorly informed renter is standing at the check in desk, or even after he/she has checked in.  Any other use of points or weeks for renting out a unit is specifically not allowed.


I don't know.  The wording in GT75's quote above seems like the commercial renting restriction does not apply to Home Week reservations (but it is not perfectly clear).

Kurt


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## SmithOp (Jul 7, 2019)

I don’t think we have ever had a report of HGVC enforcing the rental rules.  I see ads on eBay all the time that are obviously not home week.


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## terces (Jul 7, 2019)

I see two units available on Redweek for the Boulevard - both floating for really low prices.  Based on that I don't see it is that prevalent.


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## Tamaradarann (Jul 7, 2019)

PigsDad said:


> I don't know.  The wording in GT75's quote above seems like the commercial renting restriction does not apply to Home Week reservations (but it is not perfectly clear).
> 
> Kurt


PigsDad, I totally agree with your interpretation in both of your posts on this subject and also concur with you answering them with separate posts which emphasize that they are two different issues.  One is that having family and friends as guests in an HGVC timeshare that you reserve during club season which requires you to be a member and utilize the club to book the reservation is OK.  The second is that the HGVC rules on renting home week reservations do not apply since home week are when you are reserving a week you own and does not have the restrictions.


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## brp (Jul 8, 2019)

PigsDad said:


> Personally, I see no issue w/ getting reimbursed from family/friends, and I think the wording that GT75 quoted above supports that -- it would not fall under the "commercial rental", I would think.
> 
> Kurt



Agreed. And the definition of "friends" can be as wide as someone is comfortable with.

Cheers.


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## terces (Jul 8, 2019)

brp said:


> Agreed. And the definition of "friends" can be as wide as someone is comfortable with.
> 
> Cheers.


Those "friends" I guess would need to be lock step with how they are related to you in case they happen to blurt out the wrong thing at the check in desk.  For all of the potential problems of renting there is another option of applying your points to the MF's, or simply selling the unit if you have too many points.  Part of my buy-in to HGVC is that they have rules against the extra curricular rental of units, and I really hope they enforce it to the max.


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## dayooper (Jul 8, 2019)

terces said:


> Those "friends" I guess would need to be lock step with how they are related to you in case they happen to blurt out the wrong thing at the check in desk.  For all of the potential problems of renting there is another option of applying your points to the MF's, or simply selling the unit if you have too many points.  Part of my buy-in to HGVC is that they have rules against the extra curricular rental of units, and I really hope they enforce it to the max.



I thought it was just bonus points you can apply to MF’s.

The person renting out their week for a club booking every once and a while to pay MF’s doesn’t bother me all that much. It’s the mega renters or those that purchase to rent the club bookings as an income generator that I have issue with. It’s one of the reasons that I purchased HGVC over Marriott. I’ve seen ads on VBRO for renting at HGVC resorts. Not a specific resort, but any resort. This bothers me because it could effect my enjoyment of the system. If they take weeks that I want and are breaking the rules put in place to stop the practice, HGVC needs to put an end to that.

The question becomes, where do you draw the line?


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## CPNY (Jul 8, 2019)

T


dayooper said:


> I thought it was just bonus points you can apply to MF’s.
> 
> The person renting out their week for a club booking every once and a while to pay MF’s doesn’t bother me all that much. It’s the mega renters or those that purchase to rent the club bookings as an income generator that I have issue with. It’s one of the reasons that I purchased HGVC over Marriott. I’ve seen ads on VBRO for renting at HGVC resorts. Not a specific resort, but any resort. This bothers me because it could effect my enjoyment of the system. If they take weeks that I want and are breaking the rules put in place to stop the practice, HGVC needs to put an end to that.
> 
> The question becomes, where do you draw the line?


the way these slimy sales reps over sell leaving people with more than they need I say good for them renting. It keeps the market honest. Why buy through a developer if you can rent for less


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## GT75 (Jul 8, 2019)

CPNY said:


> the way these slimy sales reps over sell leaving people with more than they need I say good for them renting. It keeps the market honest. Why buy through a developer if you can rent for less



I agree with @dayooper.   I know that some of the other TS systems had/have problems with mega-renters.     I really don't want those issues with HGVC.


----------



## brp (Jul 8, 2019)

terces said:


> Those "friends" I guess would need to be lock step with how they are related to you in case they happen to blurt out the wrong thing at the check in desk.



Nope. Friends are friends. Need not be related. And HGVC has no notion of just how we might know each other, so there is little risk. Of course, if they talk about a "rental," that's not good. But, beyond that, no coordination is needed.




dayooper said:


> The person renting out their week for a club booking every once and a while to pay MF’s doesn’t bother me all that much.
> 
> The question becomes, where do you draw the line?



I agree with both of your points, including the "where to draw the line" part. It is certainly possible, for example, that someone may have more points than they currently need on an annual basis, so they allow "friends" to stay periodically. However, they know that, within a few years, they are very likely to be using all of their points, so this is an interim thing. One scenario, anyway.

Cheers.


----------



## brp (Jul 8, 2019)

GT75 said:


> I agree with @dayooper.   I know that some of the other TS systems had/have problems with mega-renters.     I really don't want those issues with HGVC.



DVC is one of those. While "commercial" renting is technically against the rules, since renting, in general, is OK, it's not enforced. There are agencies that acquire and rent out DVC points as a business. And this has gone on for some time. And people who own a (sometimes quite large) set of points specifically for renting.

Cheers.


----------



## Tamaradarann (Jul 8, 2019)

brp said:


> DVC is one of those. While "commercial" renting is technically against the rules, since renting, in general, is OK, it's not enforced. There are agencies that acquire and rent out DVC points as a business. And this has gone on for some time. And people who own a (sometimes quite large) set of points specifically for renting.
> 
> Cheers.


I think that bringing up some of problems with a timeshare system allowing wild renting of club reservations is important.  To give an example of an extreme abuse one could buy a load of points with low maintenance in Las Vegas on the resale market, make a load of club reservations during a peak time in Honolulu using up the tight inventory, and then rent out those weeks for a profit.  Members who want to make club reservations for their own use could be locked out.


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## dayooper (Jul 8, 2019)

brp said:


> I agree with both of your points, including the "where to draw the line" part. It is certainly possible, for example, that someone may have more points than they currently need on an annual basis, so they allow "friends" to stay periodically. However, they know that, within a few years, they are very likely to be using all of their points, so this is an interim thing. One scenario, anyway.
> 
> Cheers.



I have a friend that has more points than she can use and her health limits her Travel. She rents those points to friends and family. This is well within the rules. 

If you are renting out with the purpose of making rental income, advertising on AirBnB, VBRO, Redweek and like, even if it’s for a few years, than you rent your home week. That’s well within the rules.


----------



## CalGalTraveler (Jul 8, 2019)

I believe the issue with "commercialization" is with mega-renters and people renting out club reservations. Not with a single home week property on AirBnB or a property placed with a superhost or rental agency.

If it is your home week, it shouldn't matter if you use AirBnB, VRBO, Redweek or whatever to advertise your unit.  It is your right as the deeded property owner to use and advertise it any way you wish; why should Club traders who are arbitraging Vegas points have a higher priority right to use your property than the owner who paid a premium and have a deeded ownership has a right to use with their home week?

People have health or family issues or cannot travel for a period of time. Why limit their ability to recoup their maint fee and make a profit if possible? Renting is also a way to ensure fewer defaults and healthy HOAs.


----------



## brp (Jul 8, 2019)

dayooper said:


> I have a friend that has more points than she can use and her health limits her Travel. She rents those points to friends and family. This is well within the rules.



Well, technically not unless Home Week. But this is something I'm definitely good with.

Cheers.


----------



## dayooper (Jul 8, 2019)

brp said:


> Well, technically not unless Home Week. But this is something I'm definitely good with.
> 
> Cheers.



Actually, it is. She can rent club bookings to friends, family and acquaintances. Since she rents to people she actually knows in real life, it’s well with the rules set forth by HGVC. 

That being said, I really don’t have a problem with someone trying to recoup some of their MF’s on points they aren’t using. It’s the mega renters that I worry about. I’ve seen talk on other forums of people buying huge sums of points and using (gaming) the system to use up high demand weeks. That’s the issue I have.



CalGalTraveler said:


> I believe the issue with "commercialization" is with mega-renters and people renting out club reservations. Not with a single home week property on AirBnB or a property placed with a superhost or rental agency.
> 
> If it is your home week, it shouldn't matter if you use AirBnB, VRBO, Redweek or whatever to advertise your unit.  It is your right as the deeded property owner to use and advertise it any way you wish; why should Club traders who are arbitraging Vegas points have a higher priority right to use your property than the owner who paid a premium and have a deeded ownership has a right to use with their home week?
> 
> People have health or family issues or cannot travel for a period of time. Why limit their ability to recoup their maint fee and make a profit if possible? This is also a way to ensure fewer defaults and healthy HOAs.



It’s the mega renters that I’m more worried about. Of course they can recoup some of their MF’s and advertise. It’s not in the rules, but a week here and there isn’t an issue. It’s those that make it a business that’s a problem. 

Again, the question is where do you draw the line. When does renting to cover MF’s cross into renting as a business?


----------



## brp (Jul 8, 2019)

dayooper said:


> Actually, it is. She can rent club bookings to friends, family and acquaintances. Since she rents to people she actually knows in real life, it’s well with the rules set forth by HGVC.?



OK. I had not realized that being compensated for these reservations was within the rules. Since they would have no way of knowing, I haven't checked in detail, but thought that the paying part was not allowed. Good to know that the rules do permit compensation.

Cheers.


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## terces (Jul 8, 2019)

brp said:


> Nope. Friends are friends. Need not be related. And HGVC has no notion of just how we might know each other, so there is little risk. Of course, if they talk about a "rental," that's not good. But, beyond that, no coordination is needed.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Where renting is clearly over the line is when the rentals are through Airbnb or VRBO or one of the known commercial operators.  If these guys are infiltrating the system they will scoop up high value inventory as they are doing in Wyndham.  The only thing we can do as owners is be vigilant.  If I happen to strike up a conversation with someone who is at a resort under these kind of rental conditions I would make sure the front desk has it reported in writing with copy to HGVC.


----------



## CalGalTraveler (Jul 8, 2019)

terces said:


> Where renting is clearly over the line is when the rentals are through Airbnb or VRBO or one of the known commercial operators.  If these guys are infiltrating the system they will scoop up high value inventory as they are doing in Wyndham.  The only thing we can do as owners is be vigilant.  If I happen to strike up a conversation with someone who is at a resort under these kind of rental conditions I would make sure the front desk has it reported in writing with copy to HGVC.



Your comments indicate that you do not understand how AirBnB or VRBO or rental management works. These are advertisers for individual property owners similar to TUG or Redweek. Any owner should be able to list their home week at these sites. Why should timeshare advertising rights be limited as a deeded owner of the property?

Besides, if I decide to give my home week for a professional management company to respond to rental queries on my behalf because I don't want to spend time with tire kickers, why should anyone care?  The owner is opting to give up a percentage of their rental revenue to the management company.  How does anyone lose out if this is their home week which they have a right to use?

My understanding is the problems arise in WorldMark because there are no deeded weeks and mega-renters use up the points at the best resorts making best units unavailable to the average user.

HGVC is different. If someone owns the best weeks in HI or NYC or OF Carolinas during event weeks, then they should be able to rent out their unit(s) all they want. It is their deeded right and they paid a premium so this should take priority over club. If it is a business or not, who cares? They own the deed and paid a premium for it.  

Issues arise during club week rentals where it may begin to look like a WorldMark problem. However I don't think this is currently a big issue. If it does, HGVC will do like the Feds and crack down on a big mega-renter to get the ants to comply.


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## hurnik (Jul 8, 2019)

dayooper said:


> I have a friend that has more points than she can use and her health limits her Travel. She rents those points to friends and family. This is well within the rules.
> 
> If you are renting out with the purpose of making rental income, advertising on AirBnB, VBRO, Redweek and like, even if it’s for a few years, than you rent your home week. That’s well within the rules.



Not so sure it's "within the rules" for non-home weeks, but then again, I seriously doubt Hilton would do anything.  Even if they accidentally blab on check-in that they rented from someone.

From page 14 of the 2019 Club rules:

"The
Club strictly forbids the use of the Club for
commercial purposes *or monetary or other
consideration by Members or their guests,*
including the use of a confirmed reservation
in an Affiliated Resort for any rental, resale
or other commercial use (other than an
Owner’s Home Week) including through the
use of Guest Certificates."

The bolding is mine.  The underlined part is mine as well.


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## brp (Jul 8, 2019)

hurnik said:


> Not so sure it's "within the rules" for non-home weeks, but then again, I seriously doubt Hilton would do anything.  Even if they accidentally blab on check-in that they rented from someone.
> 
> From page 14 of the 2019 Club rules:
> 
> ...



Thanks. This is what I thought I had remembered.

Cheers.


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## dayooper (Jul 8, 2019)

hurnik said:


> Not so sure it's "within the rules" for non-home weeks, but then again, I seriously doubt Hilton would do anything.  Even if they accidentally blab on check-in that they rented from someone.
> 
> From page 14 of the 2019 Club rules:
> 
> ...



I stand corrected. Thanks.


----------



## dayooper (Jul 8, 2019)

CalGalTraveler said:


> Your comments indicate that you do not understand how AirBnB or VRBO or rental management works. These are advertisers for individual property owners similar to TUG or Redweek. Any owner should be able to list their home week at these sites. Why should timeshare advertising rights be limited as a deeded owner of the property?
> 
> Besides, if I decide to give my home week for a professional management company to respond to rental queries on my behalf because I don't want to spend time with tire kickers, why should anyone care?  The owner is opting to give up a percentage of their rental revenue to the management company.  How does anyone lose out if this is their home week which they have a right to use?
> 
> ...



Absolutely they can rent their home weeks as they see fit. Never said they couldn’t. It’s those that use club bookings to get the best weeks to rent that bother me. I have Flamingo points that I may never use my home week for. If we went, we probably would stay at Elara or the Boulevard (they have 3 bedrooms) or would would want a midweek start to our vacation (we love the cheaper air fare).


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## Tamaradarann (Jul 9, 2019)

hurnik said:


> Not so sure it's "within the rules" for non-home weeks, but then again, I seriously doubt Hilton would do anything.  Even if they accidentally blab on check-in that they rented from someone.
> 
> From page 14 of the 2019 Club rules:
> 
> ...





hurnik said:


> Not so sure it's "within the rules" for non-home weeks, but then again, I seriously doubt Hilton would do anything.  Even if they accidentally blab on check-in that they rented from someone.
> 
> From page 14 of the 2019 Club rules:
> 
> Ok, so what about if you make a 2 BR club Reservation and have friends stay with you and they pay 1/2 of the maintenance cost of the unit?


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## Nomad420 (Jul 9, 2019)

hurnik said:


> Not so sure it's "within the rules" for non-home weeks, but then again, I seriously doubt Hilton would do anything.  Even if they accidentally blab on check-in that they rented from someone.
> 
> From page 14 of the 2019 Club rules:
> 
> ...



Just curious and not that I want to rent but what if you have no "home week" as they do at HCNY?   I have already gifted my place/points at HCNY to family with absolutely no problems obviously.


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## brp (Jul 9, 2019)

Nomad420 said:


> Just curious and not that I want to rent but what if you have no "home week" as they do at HCNY?   I have already gifted my place/points at HCNY to family with absolutely no problems obviously.



It's pretty much universally believed that there will never be a problem with the occasional renting (which just looks like sharing). For some, it's just a question of whether it is, or is not, a violation of the rules.

Cheers.


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## Tamaradarann (Jul 10, 2019)

Nomad420 said:


> Just curious and not that I want to rent but what if you have no "home week" as they do at HCNY?   I have already gifted my place/points at HCNY to family with absolutely no problems obviously.



From my interpretation, using HCNY resort you own to gift to your family or friends in no problem.  Also, having friends stay with you and they pay 1/2 of the maintenance cost of the unit is also not a problem?  If it was a problem, I am sure having those friends pay for the groceries and/or dinners out that are the equivalent to 1/2 the maintenance could be worked out, so why even make a problem when there isn't one.


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## CalGalTraveler (Jul 10, 2019)

HCNY is an interesting bird. It would be interesting for an owner to share their rules on renting. Perhaps the points can be rented out since points are considered your "home week."  However didn't they switch from RTU to deeded? What is on the deed?

Maybe the reason they bucketed the bHC points was to curb rental abuse using points from Vegas to rent out HCNY?


----------



## PigsDad (Jul 10, 2019)

CalGalTraveler said:


> Maybe the reason they bucketed the bHC points was to curb rental abuse using points from Vegas to rent out HCNY?


Could definitely have been a factor, IMO.  That change might have been relevant to a conversation I had w/ another HGVC owner in the pool at The Surf Club last Christmas.  He was planning on divesting from several weeks that he owned due to a "change in the reservation system".  Seemed he owned many weeks / points and used them as a side business of renting out reservations.  I think he said he owned 10-15 weeks/deeds.  I really didn't get in a deep discussion, so I'm not sure what exactly changed;  maybe he got caught and HGVC was restricting his renting?  Or maybe it was the byHC restrictions?  I really didn't want to point out that what he was doing was against the rules, though.

Kurt


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## Nomad420 (Jul 10, 2019)

CalGalTraveler said:


> HCNY is an interesting bird. It would be interesting for an owner to share their rules on renting. Perhaps the points can be rented out since points are considered your "home week."  However didn't they switch from RTU to deeded? What is on the deed?
> 
> Maybe the reason they bucketed the bHC points was to curb rental abuse using points from Vegas to rent out HCNY?



It is indeed deeded now.  As far as the rental rules I will have to get back to you as I am working now away from home and don't have the contract with me.


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## brp (Jul 10, 2019)

Tamaradarann said:


> From my interpretation, using HCNY resort you own to gift to your family or friends in no problem.  Also, having friends stay with you and they pay 1/2 of the maintenance cost of the unit is also not a problem?  If it was a problem, I am sure having those friends pay for the groceries and/or dinners out that are the equivalent to 1/2 the maintenance could be worked out, so why even make a problem when there isn't one.



One can finagle the situation any way they want. It is not a problem and never will be a problem in this case, even if one does receive payment for the room. from family, friends or "friends." How one wants to both interpret and follow the rules is an individual decision. If one is not doing this a lot, i.e. not as a commercial venture, nothing's gonna happen.

Cheers.


----------



## terces (Jul 10, 2019)

brp said:


> One can finagle the situation any way they want. It is not a problem and never will be a problem in this case, even if one does receive payment for the room. from family, friends or "friends." How one wants to both interpret and follow the rules is an individual decision. If one is not doing this a lot, i.e. not as a commercial venture, nothing's gonna happen.
> 
> Cheers.


I've also heard of people who get creative with the speed limits and tax laws.  They are the rules and should you choose to bend them, understand you have entered a contract that says otherwise.


----------



## brp (Jul 10, 2019)

terces said:


> I've also heard of people who get creative with the speed limits and tax laws.  They are the rules and should you choose to bend them, understand you have entered a contract that says otherwise.



Exactly!

Cheers.


----------



## escanoe (Jul 10, 2019)

terces said:


> I've also heard of people who get creative with the speed limit.....



It is a minority of drivers that NEVER violate speed limits. This probably is fairly analogous to what we are discussing here. You can in all likelihood drive 5 to 10 mph over the limit almost all the time and never get a ticket. Consistently drive more than 20 over, and you are running some risk.


----------



## Tamaradarann (Jul 11, 2019)

escanoe said:


> It is a minority of drivers that NEVER violate speed limits. This probably is fairly analogous to what we are discussing here. You can in all likelihood drive 5 to 10 mph over the limit almost all the time and never get a ticket. Consistently drive more than 20 over, and you are running some risk.



I like the analogy.


----------



## Tamaradarann (Jul 11, 2019)

terces said:


> I've also heard of people who get creative with the speed limits and tax laws.  They are the rules and should you choose to bend them, understand you have entered a contract that says otherwise.



I agree, but I would add that the intent and bottom line in bending the rules makes a difference.  If one is reserving an accommodation during club season and renting it out for compensation that is one thing since you are taking a timeshare out of circulation that you don't own that other members could reserve for their use and financially benefiting.  However, if you reserve an accommodation during club season for you and your friends or family to stay whether they provide some compensation to you or not is insignificant to the availability for other members.


----------



## brp (Jul 11, 2019)

Tamaradarann said:


> I agree, but I would add that the intent and bottom line in bending the rules makes a difference.  If one is reserving an accommodation during club season and renting it out for compensation that is one thing since you are taking a timeshare out of circulation that you don't own that other members could reserve for their use and financially benefiting.  However, if you reserve an accommodation during club season for you and your friends or family to stay whether they provide some compensation to you or not is insignificant to the availability for other members.



I will disagree here. If one has a limited number of points (and one does ), then taking the room is taking the room and has the same impact on other members either way. It means that one can't reserve a room at another time, so that frees up an availability that one might have used if they had used the points for themselves, and not for a "rental." So, in the end, the net use of the property by said owner is the same in either case. It may just shift specifically when they use those points.

Now, those with a large number of points specifically for "commercial" rental do have more of an impact given the intent, as others have also said.

Cheers.


----------



## SmithOp (Jul 11, 2019)

This is all hypothetical, I don't think we have seen a report of HGVC megarenters unlike W.  We don't even have a points rental exchange like M.

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk


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## Tamaradarann (Jul 11, 2019)

brp said:


> I will disagree here. If one has a limited number of points (and one does ), then taking the room is taking the room and has the same impact on other members either way. It means that one can't reserve a room at another time, so that frees up an availability that one might have used if they had used the points for themselves, and not for a "rental." So, in the end, the net use of the property by said owner is the same in either case. It may just shift specifically when they use those points.
> 
> Now, those with a large number of points specifically for "commercial" rental do have more of an impact given the intent, as others have also said.
> 
> Cheers.



I guess it is all how someone looks at this issue.  My point is that if you are using the Club system, specifically the club reservation advantages of the system, to book an accommodation that you don't own for yourself and others it doesn't matter whether they compensate you or not.  However, if you are booking the room to rent strictly for compensation it is different.  A example to clarify;  if you own in Orlando or Vegas where the maintenance is lower and the availability is greater and units remain vacant to book Hawaii where the availability is much more tighter to rent you are taking vacation opportunities away from others in the club and are abusing the club privileges for your economic advantage not to have a nice vacation with your family and/or friends.


----------



## brp (Jul 11, 2019)

Tamaradarann said:


> A example to clarify;  if you own in Orlando or Vegas where the maintenance is lower and the availability is greater and units remain vacant to book Hawaii where the availability is much more tighter to rent you are taking vacation opportunities away from others in the club and are abusing the club privileges for your economic advantage not to have a nice vacation with your family and/or friends.



I do see your point, but it is still the case that, with Vegas points, I can (and do) book Hawai'i (Island, and not Oahu, but the idea is the same). Whether I use it or rent it, it's gone, But, yes, if I'd preferentially book a non-home location for rental versus personal use, it could make a difference. If done infrequently, even given this, I'm fine with it.

Cheers.


----------



## terces (Jul 11, 2019)

dayooper said:


> I have a friend that has more points than she can use and her health limits her Travel. She rents those points to friends and family. This is well within the rules.
> 
> If you are renting out with the purpose of making rental income, advertising on AirBnB, VBRO, Redweek and like, even if it’s for a few years, than you rent your home week. That’s well within the rules.


No it is not well within the rules.  The rules state you can rent your homeweek, period.


----------



## brp (Jul 11, 2019)

terces said:


> No it is not well within the rules.  The rules state you can rent your homeweek, period.



Yup,. Definite violation, as already noted upthread. So be it 

Cheers


----------



## GTLINZ (Feb 22, 2020)

I know this tread is old but it is interesting. I do wish there was an organized way to rent from owners. 

I was an HGVC owner for 15 years and sold my unit because we own too many timeshares and were not using the points like we used to. I do miss having access to HGVC Tuscany in the spring as we would always break the winter blues with a studio for 3-4 nights during the week in March which was not a lot of points. Hilton.com is an option but it adds up fast with taxes and resort fees. So it is an adjustment for us - i miss it more than I thought.


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## alwysonvac (Feb 22, 2020)

GTLINZ said:


> I know this tread is old but it is interesting. I do wish there was an organized way to rent from owners.
> 
> I was an HGVC owner for 15 years and sold my unit because we own too many timeshares and were not using the points like we used to. I do miss having access to HGVC Tuscany in the spring as we would always break the winter blues with a studio for 3-4 nights during the week in March which was not a lot of points. Hilton.com is an option but it adds up fast with taxes and resort fees. So it is an adjustment for us - i miss it more than I thought.


Do you have access to II? If so, you can stay at one of the Marriotts in Orlando via a cash getaways and/or one of the many Accomodation Credits (AC). 
You don’t have to stay for the full week.


----------



## TDub1313 (Feb 22, 2020)

I was the OP on this thread and just re-read it. After thinking about the difference between home/club this question comes to mind. Absent the interpretations and possible “ethical” problems - If I book a reservation in club and notify HGVC I need a Guest Certificate, will they issue one?  It would be easy enough for them to figure out this wasn’t a home week reservation, if they are willing to accept the fee and issue the GC, what does that say?  Or do they not issue those currently?


----------



## dayooper (Feb 22, 2020)

TDub1313 said:


> I was the OP on this thread and just re-read it. After thinking about the difference between home/club this question comes to mind. Absent the interpretations and possible “ethical” problems - If I book a reservation in club and notify HGVC I need a Guest Certificate, will they issue one?  It would be easy enough for them to figure out this wasn’t a home week reservation, if they are willing to accept the fee and issue the GC, what does that say?  Or do they not issue those currently?



You can get a guest certificate for a club reservation. You just aren’t supposed to rent it out for commercial gain.


----------



## alwysonvac (Feb 22, 2020)

TDub1313 said:


> I was the OP on this thread and just re-read it. After thinking about the difference between home/club this question comes to mind. Absent the interpretations and possible “ethical” problems - If I book a reservation in club and notify HGVC I need a Guest Certificate, will they issue one?  It would be easy enough for them to figure out this wasn’t a home week reservation, if they are willing to accept the fee and issue the GC, what does that say?  Or do they not issue those currently?



Here what I posted in another thread. I believe it addresses your question.

From two sections in the 2019 Club Rules and 2019 Disclosure Document.
​_*No Commercial Use of Club by Members or Guests.* Accommodations available through the Club are for the personal use and enjoyment of Members, the Members’ immediate family, and guests personally known and acquainted with Members. The Club strictly forbids the use of the Club for commercial purposes or monetary or other consideration by Members or their guests including the use of a confirmed reservation in an Affiliated Resort for any rental, resale or other commercial use (other than an owner’s Home Week) __*including through the use of guest certificates. *__Failure to abide by this restriction may result in immediate cancellation of the applicable reservation(s) (without refund or credit), suspension of Club or Open Season reservation privileges, denial of access to any confirmed reservations, or other products or services offered through the Club and limitations on the number or type of transactions by a Member. Any lease or rental agreement for a Home Week shall be deemed to contain a provision requiring that any sums due to the Club as annual Club Dues or due to the Association as assessments must be deducted from the gross rentals and paid directly to the party for which such sums are owed._​​*Club Benefits for Members Only.*​_Membership benefits are only for the benefit of Club Members who own a vacation ownership interest at an Affiliated Resort. Members may be asked to answer security questions or otherwise verify identity prior to servicing. Members are responsible for __the activity that occurs on their account, and must keep their account access information secure. Hilton Grand Vacations has no obligation to provide services or benefits to Member guests. Reservations booked through third party exchange, travel holiday clubs or any third-party rental or exchange site not affiliated with Hilton Grand Vacations including but not limited to AirBnB, VRBO, HomeAway, eBay, Craigslist, or similar may be denied by Hilton Grand Vacations in its sole discretion. Hilton Grand Vacations is not responsible __for any loss, claim, demand or other injury, including, but not limited to, disclosure of private information, loss or rental proceeds, fraud, performance or non-performance of any transactions, or misapplication of funds, refunds, or credits, arising out of or related to the use of a Member account or reservation at an Affiliated Resort by any third party, including any third party rental or exchange program not affiliated with Hilton Grand Vacations, any designated or authorized user, authorized, permitted or provided access to the account by the Member, including any use rights granted through corporate, partnership, trust or other entity or organizations holding membership._​


----------



## GTLINZ (Feb 22, 2020)

alwysonvac said:


> Do you have access to II? If so, you can stay at one of the Marriotts in Orlando via a cash getaways and/or one of the many Accomodation Credits (AC).
> You don’t have to stay for the full week.



I sure do and can get great prices during offseason. That is one of the reasons i gave up my ownership - after getting access to interval i quickly learned that II getaways are far nicer than what I saw in RCI, and there is a lot of nice inventory in Orlando.  This is specific to Tuscany village - we just spent a lot of time there and I miss it more than i thought I would.  But it was not worth keeping the unit just for that.

I am also aware that you can only rent your home week - unlike Marriott who does not care about rentals - it would be nice if you could but the rules prevent it.  The few times I did make a reservation for someone else i was very explicit to tell them when asked that they were my guest - and nothing else - and to politely but firmly decline the timeshare presentation.

We do have the option to go thru hilton.com - but our favorite time of March is more expensive then.


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## PigsDad (Feb 22, 2020)

dayooper said:


> You can get a guest certificate for a club reservation. You just aren’t supposed to rent it out for commercial gain.


Also, on the page where you fill out the information about a guest certificate, there are several "warnings" about how a GC is only for family or a personally-known friend, and how you are responsible for any damages to the unit incurred by your guests.  If you rent it out to a stranger, you not only risk getting caught and having the reservation cancelled and possibly your membership suspended, you also have a financial risk if your renter trashes the place.

Kurt


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## alwysonvac (Feb 22, 2020)

PigsDad said:


> Also, on the page where you fill out the information about a guest certificate, there are several "warnings" about how a GC is only for family or a personally-known friend, and how you are responsible for any damages to the unit incurred by your guests.  If you rent it out to a stranger, you not only risk getting caught and having the reservation cancelled and possibly your membership suspended, you also have a financial risk if your renter trashes the place.
> 
> Kurt


Interesting....I just checked the pdf confirmation that I sent to my nephew for his stay last year and it has the following printed at the bottom.

_GUEST CERTIFICATE ACKNOWLEDGEMENT_​_I acknowledge that my guests are my immediate family and/or personally known and acquainted with me and that use of the Club for commercial purposes of Members or their guests including the use of a confirmed reservation for any rental, resale or other commercial use (other than an owner’s Home Week) is strictly forbidden. Reservations made through a commercial rental business are subject to cancellation._​_I am responsible for any damages caused by my guests during this stay._​_My guests are at least 18 years of age and will provide proof of age upon check-in to the property._​


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## GT75 (Feb 22, 2020)

alwysonvac said:


> I just checked the pdf confirmation that I sent to my nephew for his stay last year and it has the following printed at the bottom.


The wording looks very clear to me.


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## brp (Feb 24, 2020)

PigsDad said:


> Also, on the page where you fill out the information about a guest certificate, there are several "warnings" about how a GC is only for family or a personally-known friend, and how you are responsible for any damages to the unit incurred by your guests.  If you rent it out to a stranger, you not only risk getting caught and having the reservation cancelled and possibly your membership suspended, you also have a financial risk if your renter trashes the place.
> 
> Kurt



Exactly. Depends upon your risk tolerance and just how well you "know" the person.

Cheers.


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## GTLINZ (Feb 25, 2020)

brp said:


> Exactly. Depends upon your risk tolerance and just how well you "know" the person.
> Cheers.



I did a few swaps with someone in another system, and also did send a coworker for a great price. I simply explained that the word "rental" could keep them from being able to check in - and again that if asked they were my guest (and also a FIRM no to any timeshare presentation).  So they understood it was in their best interest to be careful.

So it is a grey area but i felt comfortable because I was not doing it often and i was not trying to do it as a business - which I agree would not be fair to other owners. I owned multiple units like many and sometimes you just did not need all of your points that particular year.  Plus the folks I sent loved it.


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## brp (Feb 25, 2020)

GTLINZ said:


> I did a few swaps with someone in another system, and also did send a coworker for a great price. I simply explained that the word "rental" could keep them from being able to check in - and again that if asked they were my guest (and also a FIRM no to any timeshare presentation).  So they understood it was in their best interest to be careful.
> 
> So it is a grey area but i felt comfortable because I was not doing it often and i was not trying to do it as a business - which I agree would not be fair to other owners. I owned multiple units like many and sometimes you just did not need all of your points that particular year.  Plus the folks I sent loved it.



Yea, this. The very few times I have done this, it was someone I know well enough from another timeshare-related board. While we have not met in person, we have known each other for several years in what is a relatively small community. I felt no risk of them causing any damage or of doing anything inappropriate. And, as you said, it was an occasional thing and not a business.

Now, as we bought about 9600 Boulevard and still have 10K Flamingo that we're trying to sell, we have a metric crapton of Vegas. I ad thought about the idea of Raiders games. In the end, I'm very unlikely to do this as these would be people I don't know and the risk (and rule stretch) may well not be worth it.

Who know, being from the Bat Area (but a diehard Jets fan as a result of being from NYC), it may be fun to go to Vegas during a Raiders game, even if we don't get tickets.

Cheers.


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## 1Kflyerguy (Feb 25, 2020)

brp said:


> Yea, this. The very few times I have done this, it was someone I know well enough from another timeshare-related board. While we have not met in person, we have known each other for several years in what is a relatively small community. I felt no risk of them causing any damage or of doing anything inappropriate. And, as you said, it was an occasional thing and not a business.
> 
> Now, as we bought about 9600 Boulevard and still have 10K Flamingo that we're trying to sell, we have a metric crapton of Vegas. I ad thought about the idea of Raiders games. In the end, I'm very unlikely to do this as these would be people I don't know and the risk (and rule stretch) may well not be worth it.
> 
> ...



Can't imagine a better group of renters than random Raiders fans coming to Vegas for a fun weekend....


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## GTLINZ (Feb 26, 2020)

1Kflyerguy said:


> Can't imagine a better group of renters than random Raiders fans coming to Vegas for a fun weekend....



LOL - that just might bring into play the section above that says "I am responsible for any damages made by my guests during their stay" !


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## brp (Feb 26, 2020)

GTLINZ said:


> LOL - that just might bring into play the section above that says "I am responsible for any damages made by my guests during their stay" !



Which is the part of the agreement that is first abd foremost on my mind. A few extra $K of MFs for the points we haven't sold is worth the peace of mind not to have to face this.

Now, I should see if I personally know any Raiders fans I trust. But all my friends in the area either don't follow sports or they're Niner fans.

Cheers.


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## GTLINZ (Mar 10, 2020)

A curious update on our Orlando trip this month.

I did not pull the trigger on booking last Dec at either Tuscany I-Drive using HH points, at MGV using MR points, or with II for a shortstay.  Then in January all options dissapeared except for an occasional Tuscany unit for 83k-93k points a night (which is silly). 

Starting last week, reward nights showed up for MGV and for Tuscany (at 54k) so I booked them both to ponder my choices.  Yesterday I was able to book an Interval shortstay using points I needed to use and am very glad i hit (I can stay a bit longer also). So i cancelled both reward points stays to keep my points.

I have to wonder if this is good luck - but I suspect there has been a wave of openings with cancelled flights into Orlando and otherwise cancelled vacations. I know people who have had their cruises canceled even into May - likely due to too many cancellations.


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