# Thoughts on moving?



## klpca (Nov 16, 2018)

We have lived in our home for 31 years. We have so many happy memories here. We love our neighbors, and the view from our back yard. But I am starting to feel melancholy during walks in our neighborhood. Things remind me of the passage of time - I will see something that reminds me of walking the kids to school and suddenly I realize that it was 30 years ago. (Head says: I must be old!) It is making me think that perhaps we should consider a move to another community in the area. Have any of you made that kind of move and if so, how do you feel about it now? We had always planned to stay here forever, but as time goes by I am not so sure. Or maybe this feeling will pass?


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## Luanne (Nov 16, 2018)

My story.  I was born and raised in California.  We lived in our last home there for about 24 years, it's basically where our dds grew up.  Great neighborhood.  But as they grew and were moving out and dh and I were getting closer to retirement we realized we really didn't want to stay there.  The house was going to be too big, it was going to be too expensive even to downsize.  So we started looking.  Every time we'd take a trip we'd think "could we live here".  

For quite awhile we considered retiring to the Big Island.  Eventually we realized that was not the place for us to be full time.  When we visited Santa Fe, quite a few years ago now, that was the first place I felt that I could live.  Over the years we made quite a few trips back there as dh's sister and bil moved there and we'd go to visit them.  Anyway, to make a long story short, in May 2012 we bought a house in Santa Fe, put our house in California on the market, and moved in November.  People asked if I was sad to be leaving the house in California.  Honestly by the time we left I didn't feel like it was my home any longer.  We had painted, re-carpeted, all of our personal items (photos, pictures, etc) were down.  I was able to leave without looking back.  Most of the neighbors we'd had when we moved in had moved on by this time as well.

We have been extremely lucky in that both dh and I have gotten involved in the community here, we've made some wonderful friends and have found so much to do.  We sometimes wonder what we would be doing if we'd stayed in California.


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## Passepartout (Nov 16, 2018)

I think that perhaps the healthier way to consider such a move would be to look forward to new views, meeting new neighbors, finding new vistas from the back yard. Looking back, wistfully considering what was, and cannot ever be the same again, is unproductive, and adds to an already stressful experience.

Back in my younger days, I was a mover. I packed and transported many families. Those that had the attitude of 'moving forward' were happier than those mourning a loss of their former life.

My DW and I are starting to come to grips with the reality that we we age, we will not be able to keep up our lives and maintain this 3300 sq. ft. house-and certainly, after one of us is inevitably left alone, it would become a near emergency move. So we are in the very early planning stages of 'what to do, where to go?' There are no CCRCs around here, where she wants to stay. And she has hobbies and crafts that require a certain amount of space, so a simple, small apartment is not in the cards. 

As plans start to come together, I'm pretty sure TUG will be a sounding board.

Jim


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## Panina (Nov 16, 2018)

I was trying to convince my other half to move into a Del Webb 55 + community.  I live in a wonderful community, most are much younger then us, great house, great area.  My reasoning, high end  amenities with clubs, and many other closer to our age.

My husband keeps saying we are too young (late 50’s) and he loves our house.  Ultimately I have realized I am very young in mannerism and I have time.  I can always move in a few years but once I leave I can’t come back.

I would go visit alternative places you would consider moving to. If you get that wow loving feeling then you know there is a good alternative.


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## Luanne (Nov 16, 2018)

I'm already starting to think about the "next step".  We absolutely love our house, it's on a single level, but if one, or both, of us cannot drive any longer we can't stay here.  There is a very nice retirement/assisted living facility in town.  We know several people who live there are are very happy.  Some friends, who are a bit older, just put in a deposit as there is a LONG waiting list.  I asked dh if we thought we should start thinking about something like this and I got a firm "NO".  He's 73 and I'm 68 so we're not ready yet, but.....................


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## klpca (Nov 16, 2018)

Passepartout said:


> I think that perhaps the healthier way to consider such a move would be to look forward to new views, meeting new neighbors, finding new vistas from the back yard. Looking back, wistfully considering what was, and cannot ever be the same again, is unproductive, and adds to an already stressful experience.
> 
> 
> Jim



I think that I misread your original comment. I thought that you meant that I should look at our existing house through new eyes. Lol. So my original comment didn't make much sense!

-deleted original comment-


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## klpca (Nov 16, 2018)

Panina said:


> I was trying to convince my other half to move into a Del Webb 55 + community.  I live in a wonderful community, most are much younger then us, great house, great area.  My reasoning, high end  amenities with clubs, and many other closer to our age.
> 
> My husband keeps saying we are too young (late 50’s) and he loves our house.  Ultimately I have realized I am very young in mannerism and I have time.  I can always move in a few years but once I leave I can’t come back.
> 
> I would go visit alternative places you would consider moving to. If you get that wow loving feeling then you know there is a good alternative.



I just told my husband that we need to go to some open houses. That usually cures my itch to move.

Btw, my mom moved into a 55+community and found it a bit to sterile for her taste. It was a bigger change than she expected to live with only folks who were her age. It took forever to sell her house when she moved. So I would give that a lot of thought. It's a great place for some and not a great fit for others.


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## WinniWoman (Nov 16, 2018)

I can understand- but in an opposite way. I am not very sentimental, but because we want(ed) to move I find myself saying maybe we shouldn't. We know this home inside out. We like it. We were the original owners. We like our property. Obviously we are familiar with mostly everything in our area. We have acquaintances here- but no family or friends, though. There have been a lot of changes in other parts of the county- not for the better. Too many people and too much traffic when you go to those places. And- I don't necessarily like the type of people moving there and even here. A lot more building going on surprisingly also.

For us- we don't like what is going on in our state government, though. The taxes are very high. Our son gets upset at the thought of us selling the family home (31 years here also), even though he doesn't even live in this state and only comes home once per year for a couple of days!

So for me, I find I am struggling a bit with the thought of selling it rather than moving.

However- yesterday we had an experience that tells me we have to move. We had a very bad snow storm. I was home nice and warm with a fire going, but my husband was at work. What is normally a little over an hours' commute for him became a 5 hour nightmare at a dead stop on the highway! I was a nervous wreck. We received over a foot of snow fast and furious. Meanwhile, I have a problem with my leg and I was in pain. Because of a medical test I had on Tuesday I cannot do any lifting until at least Monday, so I couldn't even attempt to shovel some of the snow between that and my leg. Thankfully- my husband finally got home. He was wiped out.

I kept thinking- this is a sign- how would we manage things when we get older? There is no one to call for help really. I am limping about. My husband is outside right now with the snowblower- but how would he manage that in his late 70's and 80's? IF he is even well?

He is having eye surgery the next two Mondays and I have to drive him down an hour away- late in the day. Coming home will be hard for me because of bad night vision- but he won't be able to drive.

So- it will be sad to leave our home but I think we will have to even if we don't want to or don't like what we end up living in or where we end up living. I told our old friends when they were up here for our reunion that it will be very hard for me to leave this- I look out all my windows throughout the house and see land- trees- wildlife, nature, privacy. And- although we already live kind of far from our friends and family- this will be a huge distance- only our son being nearby and not knowing anyone.

There is a lot to think about when you move. The downsizing. The expense, the lifestyle, the people you will surround yourself with, conveniences, medical facilities. What issues will there be with the new house or condo?

I think what Jim said is also relevant. You can look at it as an adventure. That is how I try to see it. It will be stimulating not being in the "same old", though I do get tired just thinking about moving. LOL!

I think it is natural the way you feel. My parents lived in their one and only home for over 55 years and they never thought for one minute to sell it. When they passed, we sold it- but the neighborhood had radically changed so much by then- my mom and a couple of other elderly ladies were the only original ones left on that road. Time passes and change happens. There would be no history without change.

I believe you will know what is the right thing in time.


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## bluehende (Nov 16, 2018)

Panina said:


> I was trying to convince my other half to move into a Del Webb 55 + community.  I live in a wonderful community, most are much younger then us, great house, great area.  My reasoning, high end  amenities with clubs, and many other closer to our age.
> 
> My husband keeps saying we are too young (late 50’s) and he loves our house.  Ultimately I have realized I am very young in mannerism and I have time.  I can always move in a few years but once I leave I can’t come back.
> 
> I would go visit alternative places you would consider moving to. If you get that wow loving feeling then you know there is a good alternative.



My BIL did that at 61 and loves it.  I will say we visited for a few days and it was fantastic.  Certainly got me thinking.


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## TravelTime (Nov 16, 2018)

My DH just told me yesterday that he is ready to move out of California. I have been trying to convince him to move since we got married. I was floored when he said it. Now I am the one saying let’s slow down and think this through. He mentioned Austin, TX since he thinks he may be able to stay with his company in an engineering job there until retirement. I said fine but we have never been there so we need to go visit first. We found a house online that we love but I said I don’t know if I want that house. We need to research how property taxes work in Texas and how they increase over time. When my DH makes a decision, he moves fast. I feel like I need to slow him down now. He is already saying he needs to talk to his boss. I am saying do not talk to him yet. We have not yet decided. We need to sell a bunch of things first. I am scared now.


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## Luanne (Nov 16, 2018)

TravelTime said:


> My DH just told me yesterday that he is ready to move out of California. I have been trying to convince him to move since we got married. I was floored when he said it. Now I am the one saying let’s slow down and think this through. He mentioned Austin, TX since he thinks he may be able to stay with his company in an engineering job there until retirement. I said fine but we have never been there so we need to go visit first. We found a house online that we love but I said I don’t know if I want that house. We need to research how property taxes work in Texas and how they increase over time. When my DH makes a decision, he moves fast. I feel like I need to slow him down now. He is already saying he needs to talk to his boss. I am saying do not talk to him yet. We have not yet decided. We need to sell a bunch of things first. I am scared now.


California to Texas. That would be culture shock.


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## TravelTime (Nov 16, 2018)

Luanne said:


> California to Texas. That would be culture shock.



Austin’s slogan is “Keep Austin Weird” so my DH thought we might fit in.


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## Luanne (Nov 16, 2018)

TravelTime said:


> Austin’s slogan is “Keep Austin Weird” so my DH thought we might fit in.


Yeah, but it's still Texas.


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## DaveNV (Nov 16, 2018)

OP, you’re in a good frame of mind to consider moving. Nothing will touch your memories, but it’s time to make new ones somewhere else. Good luck with your choice!

Dave


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## WinniWoman (Nov 16, 2018)

TravelTime said:


> Austin’s slogan is “Keep Austin Weird” so my DH thought we might fit in.



Vermont has the same saying- but for the whole state. LOL! And yeah- it's getting weirder by the moment, but I still love it there- at least when on vacation.


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## controller1 (Nov 16, 2018)

Luanne said:


> California to Texas. That would be culture shock.





TravelTime said:


> Austin’s slogan is “Keep Austin Weird” so my DH thought we might fit in.





Luanne said:


> Yeah, but it's still Texas.



Austin is certainly the most liberal city in Texas so not too much different than California in general for political leanings.

I've long said there are so many good restaurants in Austin that you could eat in a different one each day and not get a bad meal.

As to the property taxes, that is the major tax in Texas so they are high. No income taxes and no sales tax on food purchases in grocery stores.

Traffic in Austin is terrible.


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## WinniWoman (Nov 16, 2018)

I don't see how someone from California would like the climate in Texas.


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## Luanne (Nov 16, 2018)

We visited Austin a couple of years ago.  We must have been in the wrong areas at the wrong times because we didn't find anything lively about it.  The downtown area seemed dead and deserted.  And yes, the traffic was pretty horrendous.


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## bogey21 (Nov 16, 2018)

When I turned 65 (about 18 years ago), retired, divorced and living alone I moved into a CCRC.  Socially I met a whole new group of people.  I come and go as I please.  Economically it was also a good move.  The buy-in cost was a lot lower than it is now; I was able to stop paying LT Care Insurance premiums; I have no home ownership expenses and responsibilities; and about 30% of my monthly fee is deductible on my FIT.

George


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## Steve Fatula (Nov 16, 2018)

Luanne said:


> Yeah, but it's still Texas.



Which is the best part of course about her potential move. Texas is overall a great state. But climate is a definite adjustment as mpumilla points out. It is a very lively city, live music capital of the world.

But then again, I moved from N Ohio (very cold) to S Oklahoma (super hot), and right by a lake too where humidity levels rise greatly in summer. I hated it the first year, but acclimated and can't stand up north any more. Too cold! Though, I am sure the same could happen in reverse.


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## Talent312 (Nov 16, 2018)

I'd like to move to a condo... Tired of looking after the yard.

Short of that, I'd pack up everything in a U-Haul truck.
Whatever I didn't pack would be given or thrown away.
I'd drive around the block and pull up to our "new" house.

.


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## jehb2 (Nov 16, 2018)

Luanne said:


> California to Texas. That would be culture shock.



Apparently not.  There are a ton of Californians in my neighborhood and they keep coming.  They love it here.  They're buying the 5000 sqft homes for what They tell me is the price of a fixer-upper in California.  And they love the public schools in the neighborhood.


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## tompalm (Nov 16, 2018)

Panina said:


> I was trying to convince my other half to move into a Del Webb 55 + community.  I live in a wonderful community, most are much younger,aI land.  then us, great house, great area.  My reasoning, high end  amenities with clubs, and many other closer to our age.
> 
> My husband keeps saying we are too young (late 50’s) and he loves our house.  Ultimately I have realized I am very young in mannerism and I have time.  I can always move in a few years but once I leave I can’t come back.
> 
> I would go visit alternative places you would consider moving to. If you get that wow loving feeling then you know there is a good alternative.



Agree. Look for a community that you want to retire in.  I would move to a 55+ retirement community in a heartbeat if they had one in Hawaii.


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## am1 (Nov 16, 2018)

40 or more years from now I would rather pay a live in maid, nurse etc for my wife and myself then move to a retirement community or nursing home.


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## klpca (Nov 16, 2018)

Re: Texas. My bff from college and her husband moved to a suburb of Dallas 6 years ago. She adjusted and liked it for the most part (ok, maybe not the weather) right up until a few months ago when she was diagnosed with a rare, terminal disease. She desperately misses her family, and her long time friends. They are trying to move to AZ to be closer to her new doctor. CA is out of the question because they are now priced out of the real estate market. It is a pretty sad situation.


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## klpca (Nov 16, 2018)

DaveNW said:


> OP, you’re in a good frame of mind to consider moving. Nothing will touch your memories, but it’s time to make new ones somewhere else. Good luck with your choice!
> 
> Dave


That is exactly how I am feeling. I am just ready for new surroundings. I always thought that familiarity would be comforting as we aged, but it's starting to feel claustrophobic. We live in a kid-ville community and now that we are empty nesters, I feel a bit like a fish out of water. 

We'll see. Talk is cheap, lol. In the end I may be too lazy to move 31 years of stuff anywhere.


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## bbodb1 (Nov 16, 2018)

Steve Fatula said:


> Which is the best part of course about her potential move. Texas is overall a great state. But climate is a definite adjustment as mpumilla points out. It is a very lively city, live music capital of the world.
> 
> But then again, I moved from N Ohio (very cold) to S Oklahoma (super hot), and right by a lake too where humidity levels rise greatly in summer. I hated it the first year, but acclimated and can't stand up north any more. Too cold! Though, I am sure the same could happen in reverse.



The desert's quiet.
Cleveland's cold.


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## Steve Fatula (Nov 16, 2018)

bbodb1 said:


> The desert's quiet.
> Cleveland's cold.



Boy is Cleveland cold! Yep, that's where I am from.

Desert, not sure what you are referring to. S Oklahoma is not desert, perhaps where you live? It's very quiet here, I do not live in any city! Love rural.


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## Panina (Nov 16, 2018)

tompalm said:


> Agree. Look for a community that you want to retire in.  I would move to a 55+ retirement community in a heartbeat if they had one in Hawaii.


If we could afford  I can convince my other half, as he lived there while in the service and loves Hawaii but he always says too expensive to live there in retirement.


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## bbodb1 (Nov 16, 2018)

klpca said:


> We have lived in our home for 31 years. We have so many happy memories here. We love our neighbors, and the view from our back yard. But I am starting to feel melancholy during walks in our neighborhood. Things remind me of the passage of time - I will see something that reminds me of walking the kids to school and suddenly I realize that it was 30 years ago. (Head says: I must be old!) It is making me think that perhaps we should consider a move to another community in the area. Have any of you made that kind of move and if so, how do you feel about it now? We had always planned to stay here forever, but as time goes by I am not so sure. Or maybe this feeling will pass?



We have recently arrived at the empty nest stage of life as well, Klpca.  For what it may be worth, we are looking at our next move as our last and to that end have been vacationing in many of the areas we have been considering to give the potential areas a look / see.  But the hardest part of this will be leaving the home that saw our kids raised in.  As Dave says, memories come with you but there is an attachment to a place (for us in this case - a house).  There is no right answer here to be sure.  After you take the time to weigh the alternatives, you must do what feels right for the two of you.  Invariably, one of you will feel stronger about one option than the other.  Be prepared for that too!


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## #1 Cowboys Fan (Nov 16, 2018)

Panina said:


> I was trying to convince my other half to move into a Del Webb 55 + community.




Which one?

We will be touring Sun City, Bluffton SC in a few weeks.


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## Cornell (Nov 16, 2018)

My story is interesting.  My grandparents bought a home during the depression in the early 30s, where my mother grew up.  In the 50s, my parents purchased the home and raised their family of 5 kids there.  I eventually purchased the house in the late 90s.  My daughter was the 4th generation to live there.  It was a beautiful , charming house.  But I started to get sick of everything:  old houses are hard to maintain, it was too big of a house, I was tired of the neighborhood.  Basically everything started "bugging me".  Two years ago, I purchased a new construction town house a couple of towns over.  Much smaller, completely different style, vibe of my former house.  Sold practically all of my old furniture and started fresh.  It has truly been invigorating.  My family, btw, encouraged and supported this move.  The fresh start, new people, new surroundings have honestly added so much meaning to my life.  Was a scary decision but in retrospect one of the best things I have ever done.


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## Cornell (Nov 16, 2018)

I'll also add -- I now have a much smaller house so it took me about 6 months to prepare for my move.  It was a huge amount of work to get rid of so much "stuff" , but it was liberating.  Possessions hold us back.  I will NEVER go back to having all of the possessions I had before.  It limits and holds most people back.


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## klpca (Nov 16, 2018)

Cornell said:


> My story is interesting.  My grandparents bought a home during the depression in the early 30s, where my mother grew up.  In the 50s, my parents purchased the home and raised their family of 5 kids there.  I eventually purchased the house in the late 90s.  My daughter was the 4th generation to live there.  It was a beautiful , charming house.  But I started to get sick of everything:  old houses are hard to maintain, it was too big of a house, I was tired of the neighborhood.  Basically everything started "bugging me".  Two years ago, I purchased a new construction town house a couple of towns over.  Much smaller, completely different style, vibe of my former house.  Sold practically all of my old furniture and started fresh.  It has truly been invigorating.  My family, btw, encouraged and supported this move.  The fresh start, new people, new surroundings have honestly added so much meaning to my life.  Was a scary decision but in retrospect one of the best things I have ever done.


Very interesting. I understand what you are saying. In my case it's the community more than my house, but even the house isn't perfect (two story with no bedroom or full bath downstairs). I was walking the dog yesterday and it hit me - there are too many reminders of the past here. I loved those years and honestly, I'm miss them terribly. I am good with moving on to something else though, but as long as we live here, there aren't a lot of activities for us any more. A lot of our friends have moved away. It isn't the same anymore and I am ready for a fresh start. I am glad to hear how well it worked out for you.


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## Steve Fatula (Nov 16, 2018)

Cornell said:


> I'll also add -- I now have a much smaller house so it took me about 6 months to prepare for my move.  It was a huge amount of work to get rid of so much "stuff" , but it was liberating.  Possessions hold us back.  I will NEVER go back to having all of the possessions I had before.  It limits and holds most people back.



That was our experience, downsizing was liberating. There was more work in getting rid of stuff than there was moving!


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## Luanne (Nov 16, 2018)

Steve Fatula said:


> That was our experience, downsizing was liberating. There was more work in getting rid of stuff than there was moving!


It took us at least a year to downsize.  We started getting rid of stuff at least that far in advance, then went into full gear once we actually bought the house in Santa Fe, which was about 6 months before we moved.  Craigslist and Freecycle were my best friends.


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## Luanne (Nov 16, 2018)

jehb2 said:


> Apparently not.  There are a ton of Californians in my neighborhood and they keep coming.  They love it here.  They're buying the 5000 sqft homes for what They tell me is the price of a fixer-upper in California.  And they love the public schools in the neighborhood.


To each his, or her, own.  I spent enough time in Texas on business trips, visiting friends and our latest road trip through the state to convince me I don't need any more Texas.

Yes, the cost of living is less.  I know people who moved there quite a few years back when there was a big shake up in the company I worked for and the headquarters became somewhere in Texas.  

Can you tell me what it is they love about the public schools?  That is not meant to be snarky, I'm curious as to what makes someone love a school.


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## WinniWoman (Nov 16, 2018)

am1 said:


> 40 or more years from now I would rather pay a live in maid, nurse etc for my wife and myself then move to a retirement community or nursing home.



Home care is not all it is cracked up to be. I know. I worked in the business for most of my life.


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## Luanne (Nov 16, 2018)

mpumilia said:


> Home care is not all it is cracked up to be. I know. I worked in the business for most of my life.


I would think finding someone reliable to come in could be an issue.  I'm guessing that may be what part of your statement is based on.


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## VacationForever (Nov 16, 2018)

I loved the first home that I bought in California.  That home was very peaceful but the issue is that it was old, not that old - built in the early 70s but it had wood shingles on the roof and around the home.  Very pretty but high maintenance.  I wasn't crazy about some immediate neighbors too.  We moved to a wonderful home, but my husband decided he had enough of California and we moved.  Now we live in a very nice single story penthouse condo with breathtaking views.  It also has the best sunrise and sunset - no kidding.  No yard to worry about and not much to worry about breaking.  We just replaced the water heater and we are good for another 10 years there.  There are only 26 units here and we are close knitted, with us becoming great friends with another couple and we do lots of stuff together.  We also belong to a sports and social club in the community and with that we also make many friends.  We left friends and neighbors that we had made behind in California and now we have found new friends.  Whenever I look back, I remind myself to look forward and I am happy to be where we now live.  We left my son behind in California and while I have some regrets, it has been a good opportunity for growth and maturing for him.  He attends HOA meetings, townhall meetings and he takes care of his home. He CARES which is all new to him and me.  These are all firsts for him.  I guess moving away from him provided an opportunity for him to become independent.


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## Karen G (Nov 16, 2018)

In 2007 we moved from the Seattle area where we had lived for 25 years & where our kids grew up. We were tired of the rain by then so now we're in the desert by Las Vegas. Our first home here was in a country club but since 2013 we've been living in Sun City Anthem, a 55+ community.  We love it here. There is so much to do both in our community and of course in Las Vegas and vicinity. Plus, we're within easy driving distance to some of the most beautiful sights in Utah, Arizona, or the beaches of California.  The weather is great most of the time & when it's hot, that's what the pool and the indoor air conditioning are for.  It has been easy to make new friends and there are some wonderful churches here, too.  Another plus is great airline service to wherever you want to fly.

Anyone considering a Del Webb or similar 55+ community should take a look at the ones in Henderson and Las Vegas.  If your kids live elsewhere they probably won't mind coming to visit mom & dad in Las Vegas!  However, two of our three kids and our two grandkids also live here, so that has been an extra blessing.


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## slip (Nov 16, 2018)

We definitely thought about this a lot over the last ten years. We got more serious over the last five years and we ended out pulling the trigger this summer on our retirement condo on Molokai.

When we first married, we bought a house we stayed and raised our kids in for twenty years. With our son in high school we ended out buy a home just out of town in a rural subdivision. We really like the large two acre lots and there’s even a small lake in the middle. We thought we would retire here.

But as we got older and kept making at least annual trips to Hawaii, we started to change our minds. We have both had enough of winter and now with our destination set, it will be hard to wait until retirement. Staying there for four to five weeks a year will have to do for now.

DW is four years older than me and will be retiring in three years. She said she wants to winter there and I can come take here back when winter is over. At first I thought she was kidding but I think she’s going to try it at least once.

So it is possible to make Hawaii work.


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## Panina (Nov 16, 2018)

#1 Cowboys Fan said:


> Which one?
> 
> We will be touring Sun City, Bluffton SC in a few weeks.


Indian Land SC.   I haven’t visited Blufton one but have been to the area.  My secret dream is a Del Webb in southwest Florida.


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## TravelTime (Nov 16, 2018)

mpumilia said:


> I can understand- but in an opposite way. I am not very sentimental, but because we want(ed) to move I find myself saying maybe we shouldn't. We know this home inside out. We like it. We were the original owners. We like our property. Obviously we are familiar with mostly everything in our area. We have acquaintances here- but no family or friends, though. There have been a lot of changes in other parts of the county- not for the better. Too many people and too much traffic when you go to those places. And- I don't necessarily like the type of people moving there and even here. A lot more building going on surprisingly also.
> 
> For us- we don't like what is going on in our state government, though. The taxes are very high. Our son gets upset at the thought of us selling the family home (31 years here also), even though he doesn't even live in this state and only comes home once per year for a couple of days!
> 
> ...



Well said Mary Ann, a lot of what you said resonated with me. I am struggling right now with where to live in the next stage of our lives. You bring up many issues that we all need to consider as we get older.


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## TravelTime (Nov 16, 2018)

Steve Fatula said:


> Which is the best part of course about her potential move. Texas is overall a great state. But climate is a definite adjustment as mpumilla points out. It is a very lively city, live music capital of the world.
> 
> But then again, I moved from N Ohio (very cold) to S Oklahoma (super hot), and right by a lake too where humidity levels rise greatly in summer. I hated it the first year, but acclimated and can't stand up north any more. Too cold! Though, I am sure the same could happen in reverse.



I grew up in South Florida. Heat and humidity are my middle names. However my hair does not like the heat and humidity. That might be a deal breaker!


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## Steve Fatula (Nov 16, 2018)

TravelTime said:


> I grew up in South Florida. Heat and humidity are my middle names. However my hair does not like the heat and humidity. That might be a deal breaker!



Well, only you can answer where is the right place. All everyone else can do is give you things to ponder. I would suggest very careful consideration. When we moved here, we spent years deciding, and, it was agreed and planned to be our last house, so, no more moves unless its underground or a hospital! Everyones situation is different though. We ended up extremely pleased with our choice and where we live. We built the house so it was exactly what we wanted, heck, we even mostly designed it. Too big was definitely not what we wanted! I enjoy yardwork, so, when the time comes (if) that I cannot, we'll simply pay someone. Not a big deal.


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## clifffaith (Nov 17, 2018)

I think because we were in the design business for the last thirty years, and in and out of homes all the time, that being exposed to different parts of our area encouraged us to move regularly. We bought our first townhouse together in 1984, moved to a home closer to our showroom in 1991, moved to an ocean view home in 1998, an ocean front home in 1999, a three story Victorian in 2002, and a home we remodeled into a semi-Mexican style in 2010. So moving is not a big deal for us, although every move is only about 15 minutes away from the last. Unfortunately we seem to expand into every home, and I do like to be surrounded by my "stuff". And now that we have a 400 sq ft guest house, and a second 400 sq ft granny unit downstairs, I filled those up too. Our next move, to a CCRC in Carlsbad about 1hr 45 min away, will be our last. I have a lot of downsizing to do, but I love to get rid of stuff almost as much as I do collecting it in the first place. I will definitely miss our current home's semi-basement storage area, it's awesome!


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## am1 (Nov 17, 2018)

mpumilia said:


> Home care is not all it is cracked up to be. I know. I worked in the business for most of my life.



My guess it neither is a using home. So stating in my house is the best of the options.


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## geist1223 (Nov 17, 2018)

The advice we have been given if we decide to make a major move is to rent for the first year to make sure you really want to live in the new location. We have looked at various Condos and not having a yard could be a bonus. Our problem is that almost all of them have strict pet rules such as only 1 pet under 30 pounds. We have have 3. Two cats and 1 dog. Felix is over 70 pounds but he is a true joy. I actually miss him when we travel. This also leaves out most 55+ Communities.

We love Kauai but would need a large enough house for the kids and Grandkids to visit as often as possible. Also a large fenced yard for Felix and future Felix's. We also remember the people we have encountered that moved to Hawaii. One couple that loved Kauai but got tired of most times having to fly to Honolulu to start their world travels. Another couple on Maui that discovered they were too far away from the Grandkids. So the advice of renting for a year in Hawaii would be sound.

Patti also talks about loving our small city of Salem Oregon though the grey skies from November to March can get depressing. Short drive to the coast, mountains, and Portland. Only 1.5 hour flight or 2 day drive (at our age we can no longer drive from Salem to SLC in 1 day) to Grandkids. She has also started talking about down sizing. Current home is 5 bedrooms, 2 baths, 3100 square feet with a 10,000 foot lot. But it is across the street from the nicest park in town and walkable to downtown.

If money was no object I think Coronado San Diego would be perfect.


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## klpca (Nov 17, 2018)

geist1223 said:


> The advice we have been given if we decide to make a major move is to rent for the first year to make sure you really want to live in the new location. We have looked at various Condos and not having a yard could be a bonus. Our problem is that almost all of them have strict pet rules such as only 1 pet under 30 pounds. We have have 3. Two cats and 1 dog. Felix is over 70 pounds but he is a true joy. I actually miss him when we travel. This also leaves out most 55+ Communities.
> 
> We love Kauai but would need a large enough house for the kids and Grandkids to visit as often as possible. Also a large fenced yard for Felix and future Felix's. We also remember the people we have encountered that moved to Hawaii. One couple that loved Kauai but got tired of most times having to fly to Honolulu to start their world travels. Another couple on Maui that discovered they were too far away from the Grandkids. So the advice of renting for a year in Hawaii would be sound.
> 
> ...



Lots of great advice.

Completely agree about Coronado. If we could afford that, I'd be gone now, lol.


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## presley (Nov 17, 2018)

klpca said:


> there are too many reminders of the past here. I loved those years and honestly, I'm miss them terribly.


Same. You know, when the kids were little, I used to think about all the things I'd be able to do when they were older or moved out. When that day came, I realized that I didn't enjoy anything nearly as much without them.  I miss my babies every day. One time, I was at Costco and saw a woman in her 30's with a blonde pony tail with a little toddler in the shopping cart. When I saw her, my first thought was, "that used to be me." I almost started crying and I wanted to tell her how lucky she was to be able to go to Costco with her child, but I didn't because I know she would think I was a loony bird.

I thought I would never get over it, but I have made a new life for myself. I've changed my friends, my job, my future plans and with all these dogs, walking around the neighborhood has more memories of what my dogs have done, than what my kids have done, lol. I still know that the best days of my life have already passed and those were the days when I was raising my kids. I've made new goals and passions for living in the present moment. It's like a different life and I just think of myself living here for today and not for the reasons we bought the house in the first place or how the first 15 years were centered around raising kids.


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## VacationForever (Nov 17, 2018)

geist1223 said:


> We have looked at various Condos and not having a yard could be a bonus. Our problem is that almost all of them have strict pet rules such as only 1 pet under 30 pounds. We have have 3. Two cats and 1 dog. Felix is over 70 pounds but he is a true joy. I actually miss him when we travel. This also leaves out most 55+ Communities.



We live in a condo and the rules are that owner occupied homes may have up to 2 pets with a combined weight of 85 lbs.  In reality, no one sees the indoor cats and cats don't get counted.

Just for grins, here is our CC&Rs regarding pets:

CCR’s Section 8.7 – Pets

Animals, livestock, and poultry shall not be raised, bred or kept in any Unit, except (a) caged birds and aquarium fish, and (2) small domestic household pets (e.g., cats and dogs) not exceeding a total of two (2) with a combined weight of not more than eighty-five (85) pounds, may be kept in each Owner-occupied Unit, provided they are not kept, bred or maintained for any commercial purpose. Pets shall be kept in the Unit, except when under leash or being transported to or from the Unit in a motor vehicle. Pets which become a nuisance or an annoyance to other Owners may be muted, confined or removed by the Executive Board at the Owner’s expense.

Rules and Regulations

Pets must be kept within an enclosure or on a leash or other restraint being controlled by a person capable of controlling such animal at all times.
Pets are not permitted to be left unattended in any Common Element or upon a terrace/balcony where they may become a nuisance to others.
Pets are not permitted to cause or create a nuisance or disturbance to other neighbors.
Pet owners are responsible for immediate removal of any waste from their pet on Common Elements.
All animals must have a current license and updated vaccinations.


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## CalGalTraveler (Nov 17, 2018)

Great discussion. We have had similar thoughts. We love our home and our neighborhood. Although we loved it when the kids were little, we also enjoy being empty-nesters. It seems like every day I notice something about our home that I really like even though we have lived here for 15 years.

Our neighborhood has aged too. There were kids in the neighborhood when we were younger (including our own). Now mainly retired/semi-retired empty-nester couples living in 4000+ sq. foot homes.  Few young families can afford to live in our neighborhood. So we already live in a retirement community - but without the nosy people that have too little to do telling you what to do and complaining all the time (I know first-hand from my mother and FIL's retirement community experience. Although they liked it -it's not for me.)

The taxes are horrible in Calif. We often dream about cashing out and establishing residency in Reno or Las Vegas and living the other 5.5 months in a place like San Diego. My DH still needs to go to an office everyday in the Silicon Valley and we can afford to stay here for now.

When our kids are out of college and settle, we will want to move close to them. They may also boomerang back home for a while, so we still need the big home.  We also like our pets.

It's nice to have options. Time will tell.


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## klpca (Nov 17, 2018)

CalGalTraveler said:


> Great discussion. We have had similar thoughts. We love our home and our neighborhood. Although we loved it when the kids were little, we also enjoy being empty nesters. It seems like every day I see something about our home that I really like even though we have lived here for 15 years.
> 
> Our neighborhood has aged too. There were kids in the neighborhood when we were younger (including our own). Now mainly retired/semi-retired empty-nester couples living in 4000+ sq. foot homes.  Few young families can afford to live in our neighborhood. So we already live in a retirement community - but without the nosy people that have too little to do telling you what to do and complaining all the time (I know first-hand from my mother and FIL's retirement community experience. Although they liked it -it's not for me.)
> 
> ...


We always said that we would sell the house and buy condos near our kids. No one has settled down yet.  One says they will eventually move to Colorado,  one is back in San Diego,  and one moves wherever the wind blows. Our family is kind of unsettled at the moment.  I wish they would make up their minds!


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## Passepartout (Nov 17, 2018)

klpca said:


> We always said that we would sell the house and buy condos near our kids. No one has settled down yet.  One says they will eventually move to Colorado,  one is back in San Diego,  and one moves wherever the wind blows. Our family is kind of unsettled at the moment.  I wish they would make up their minds!


Our 'kids' too. With today's employment rationale of not feeling that a job is 'until retirement' many people change jobs and locales far more frequently than our generation did. There is much to say about KarenG's rationale of going to a retirement community in Las Vegas where the younger generation wants to visit, and there are frequent flights to and from virtually anywhere. Oh, and no snow to shovel.


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## CalGalTraveler (Nov 17, 2018)

Passepartout said:


> There is much to say about KarenG's rationale of going to a retirement community in Las Vegas where the younger generation wants to visit, and there are frequent flights to and from virtually anywhere.



Going where your kids want to visit is very important. This is why we timeshare. I don't see them much when they come home but they will always accept a trip to Hawaii or Vegas or elsewhere. As a "captive audience" we do activities together. We've had wonderful family memories.


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## Luanne (Nov 17, 2018)

CalGalTraveler said:


> Going where your kids want to visit is very important. This is why we timeshare. I don't see them much when they come home but they will always accept a trip to Hawaii or Vegas or elsewhere. As a "captive audience" we do activities together. We've had wonderful family memories.


When we were thinking of moving, and where to move, our older dd (who is now married and living in the Silicon Valley) told us that it was our life and we should do what WE wanted.  She loves Santa Fe, and loves to visit, but when she moved she opted to stay in California (she wasn't married at the time).  Our younger dd, who we figured was the nomad, came back to Santa Fe after getting her Master's and ended up getting an excellent job near by, so she'll be staying in Santa Fe, at least for awhile.


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## Ralph Sir Edward (Nov 17, 2018)

All the talk about the high property taxes in Texas got me to break out my "green eyeshades" and doing the math.

On a pure math basis, I would pay more in California income taxes on my current salary than my house taxes cost me in Texas, all of them combined (on a 2200 sq foot brick home in a nice neighborhood.)

Even if I could deduct all of the California income taxes from my federal taxes (at a 24% bracket), I would roughly break even.

I don't see what the "high property tax" problem is.


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## VacationForever (Nov 17, 2018)

We only pay about 0.5% in property tax and no state income tax here.  Shh...


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## bbodb1 (Nov 17, 2018)

VacationForever said:


> We only pay about 0.5% in property tax and no state income tax here.  Shh...


Okay, that's just dirty pool, VF!


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## VacationForever (Nov 17, 2018)

bbodb1 said:


> Okay, that's just dirty pool, VF!


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## bogey21 (Nov 17, 2018)

The best move I ever made was right after graduating from High School.  I moved out of my Parents' house the day after I graduated because I was Hellbent to make it on my own...

George


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## TravelTime (Nov 17, 2018)

Ralph Sir Edward said:


> All the talk about the high property taxes in Texas got me to break out my "green eyeshades" and doing the math.
> 
> On a pure math basis, I would pay more in California income taxes on my current salary than my house taxes cost me in Texas, all of them combined (on a 2200 sq foot brick home in a nice neighborhood.)
> 
> ...



You are probably right. We pay a lot more in state income taxes in California than we would pay on a $2 million house in Austin, TX. All in all, it would be a lot more affordable for us to move to Texas, in spite of the property taxes. However, I am getting cold feet now. The property taxes are about 50% more in Austin compared to California for the same value house. But I agree it is not substantially more to justify moving, unless someone majorly downsizes. The problem I found with Austin is the quality of housing to get an equivalent house is super expensive. The homes in Austin are not a bargain compared to what we already own in California (since we have owned for awhile). However, perhaps other cities in Texas are a better deal.


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## TravelTime (Nov 17, 2018)

VacationForever said:


> We only pay about 0.5% in property tax and no state income tax here.  Shh...



I need to move where you live! I think I remember where you live. Unfortunately my DH has some major PTSD from business trips there. I can’t even say the name of the major city there or he howls. Otherwise, I would be searching for a new home now!


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## bbodb1 (Nov 17, 2018)

According to intuit.com












*Only seven states have no personal income tax:*

Wyoming.
Washington.
Texas.
South Dakota.
Nevada.
Florida.
Alaska.


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## bbodb1 (Nov 17, 2018)

_I'm in: _Wyoming, Alaska
_No way: _Texas, Florida
_Jury still out: _Washington, South Dakota, Nevada


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## am1 (Nov 17, 2018)

VacationForever said:


> We only pay about 0.5% in property tax and no state income tax here.  Shh...



0, 0 (provincal, but none the less not a thing), 0 federal

I do pay a few hundred dollars in property taxes on a few apartment.  Just the land they sit on as the actual buildings are tax exempt for awhile.  

7% sales tax.  I keep the business receipts to lower the sales tax I get charge when getting paid.  To me even %7 is a lot.


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## VacationForever (Nov 17, 2018)

bbodb1 said:


> _I'm in: _Wyoming, Alaska
> _No way: _Texas, Florida
> _Jury still out: _Washington, South Dakota, Nevada


Washington is wet and rainy, South Dakota can get cold and snow in winter which narrows it to only Nevada.


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## WinniWoman (Nov 17, 2018)

TravelTime said:


> You are probably right. We pay a lot more in state income taxes in California than we would pay on a $2 million house in Austin, TX. All in all, it would be a lot more affordable for us to move to Texas, in spite of the property taxes. However, I am getting cold feet now. The property taxes are about 50% more in Austin compared to California for the same value house. But I agree it is not substantially more to justify moving, unless someone majorly downsizes. The problem I found with Austin is the quality of housing to get an equivalent house is super expensive. The homes in Austin are not a bargain compared to what we already own in California (since we have owned for awhile). However, perhaps other cities in Texas are a better deal.



This is the problem I have with New Hampshire overall. Trying to get an affordable quality dwelling-townhouse/condo- to live compared with what we live in now. And- with reasonable HOA fees and taxes.


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## WinniWoman (Nov 17, 2018)

bbodb1 said:


> According to intuit.com
> View attachment 9085
> 
> View attachment 9087
> ...



New Hampshire has no state income tax or sales taxes. No taxes on SS or estates. It does tax dividends over $5000 I believe.


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## Passepartout (Nov 17, 2018)

VacationForever said:


> Washington is wet and rainy, South Dakota can get cold and snow in winter which narrows it to only Nevada.


Not ALL of Washington is wet & rainy. 2/3 of WA East of the Cascades is pretty dry, but it can get cold & snow (though not deep) in Winter and hotter 'n Hades in Summer.


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## WinniWoman (Nov 17, 2018)

bbodb1 said:


> _I'm in: _Wyoming, Alaska
> _No way: _Texas, Florida
> _Jury still out: _Washington, South Dakota, Nevada




You sound like us. Everyone always acts so surprised when I say we want north and not south. At one time we did actually want to live in Alaska. S. Dakota and Idaho appeal to me and my husband likes Wyoming. Not sure about Nevada, though where VacationForever's place sounds wonderful.

Then again, there seems to be better retirement communities in Florida that are affordable. I want access to a pool  is all I know -and year round- so would need an indoor one and would love an outdoor one as well. I want to swim - especially in the winter months to get extra exercise- I enjoy it immensely- it is the one activity I like besides riding a bike. Would be nice to have flat paved bike trails nearby, too. (I don't own a bike yet). New England seems to be lacking in these types of communities- at least affordable ones.

I go back to the thing that I want to live somewhat nearby our son. He can't afford to fly places.Plus, remember- these "kids" have jobs and just can't visit whenever they want.  Plus us seeing him and him seeing us in small doses here and there is probably best instead of in one fell swoop like for a week.

Also- moving to Florida- so far away. Back to how do we even look for a home once our home sells- all the way down there? We can't afford to fly back and forth to look. We would have to put stuff in storage and then rent a place- but how do we rent a place so fast down there? The logistics of the whole thing baffles me. I know people do it all the time but most already have a new home in place to go to after they sell their home, which would not be the case for us.

Plus we have no "connection" to Florida and most other retirement states, though we have been to some of them. Our connection is New England. We are more familiar with that region and vacation there.


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## VacationForever (Nov 17, 2018)

When I think Florida, 2 things always pop up in my mind, one is humidity and the other is hurricanes.  I don't think I would be happy retiring in Florida but lots of people do. 

We have 2 neighbors in our condo building who moved here from Florida.  One couple cited high cost of living in Florida where their property taxes were outrageous - they lived in a high rise condo facing the water in Florida and they had to pay a premium for hurricane risk even though they were something like 30 storey up.  The other older couple who are now in their 80s moved here five years ago because of her arthritis and she does much better in dry than humid. 

When we visited Alaska, our tour guide said Alaskans have major drinking and drug abuse problems because of the cold and short days in winter and there was nothing else to do but to feel sorry for themselves.  Many people turn to drugs and booze as a form of escape.


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## Glynda (Nov 17, 2018)

We've lived in 21 houses in our 50 years of marriage! 9 years is the longest we've lived in a house. I never had the luxury of becoming too attached to a house, neighbors or things. It wouldn't be a problem for me to clean out and move.

But like others...where? We want 1 level living with the ability to lock and leave for travel. The ideal would be: No, or very little, snow. Fairly flat land. Green; not brown. No flooding, hurricanes, earthquakes, volcanoes or tornadoes. No mudslides or frequent wild fires. Few bugs. No red tide or green algae. Lots of sunshine but with low temperatures and no humidity. In, or close, to a vibrant city with major hospitals, universities and international airport. Oh, and where people say "y'all"!  Asking for much? 

I love Charleston; its architecture, history, restaurants and shopping. I love the smell of a low country salt marsh at low tide, herons and egrets, and old sprawling live oak trees with Spanish moss hanging from them. A porch swing and rocking chairs on a piazza with a haint blue ceiling. Grits and oysters. I don't love invasive and/or obnoxious tourists, traffic, maneuvering around frequently flooded streets, anticipating and preparing for storms, heat and humidity, mosquitoes, poor roads and out of control growth/construction that is ruining the charm and character of this area. I can't even imagine returning to Florida to live and the Bluffton, SC, area is just too far from everything major. Las Vegas? Well, it's_ Las Vegas_! On the wrong coast and brown. 

I often consider Greenville, SC. We've lived in that area 3 times over the years and it has a lot to offer. I could consider a suburb of Charlotte, NC, and Charlottesville, VA. Any further North and snow would be an issue. Any further East and I'm back to worrying about the changes I see coming that will result in more storms and flooding. The West is just too far and foreign from all that I love. 

Hmmm...how about Europe?


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## jehb2 (Nov 17, 2018)

Ralph Sir Edward said:


> On a pure math basis, I would pay more in California income taxes on my current salary than my house taxes cost me in Texas, all of them combined (on a 2200 sq foot brick home in a nice neighborhood.)



You are so correct.  People outside the state hear property taxes and it freaks them out.  But you have to look at the whole picture.  What you pay in property taxes pales in comparison to the amount you pay in income taxes (No income tax in Texas).

No wait. Forget what I said.  The quality of life in central Texas is terrible.  Everyone stop moving here.


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## jehb2 (Nov 17, 2018)

TravelTime said:


> The problem I found with Austin is the quality of housing to get an equivalent house is super expensive. The homes in Austin are not a bargain compared to what we already own in California (since we have owned for awhile).



I am pretty certain that you are only looking at homes in the central Austin area.  That's a small and very expensive market.


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## TravelTime (Nov 17, 2018)

jehb2 said:


> I am pretty certain that you are only looking at homes in the central Austin area.  That's a very small and expensive area.



I was looking at neighborhoods equivalent to where we live now in Silicon Valley and the pricing was $1 million + in Austin. I only saw 2 houses I liked in Austin. One was $1 million and the other was $2 million. I saw a lot I liked over $2 million.


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## Panina (Nov 17, 2018)

Glynda said:


> We've lived in 21 houses in our 50 years of marriage! 9 years is the longest we've lived in a house. I never had the luxury of becoming too attached to a house, neighbors or things. It wouldn't be a problem for me to clean out and move.
> 
> But like others...where? We want 1 level living with the ability to lock and leave for travel. The ideal would be: No, or very little, snow. Fairly flat land. Green; not brown. No flooding, hurricanes, earthquakes, volcanoes or tornadoes. No mudslides or frequent wild fires. Few bugs. No red tide or green algae. Lots of sunshine but with low temperatures and no humidity. In, or close, to a vibrant city with major hospitals, universities and international airport. Oh, and where people say "y'all"!  Asking for much?
> 
> ...


A little south of Charlotte business center about 25 minute is the South Carolina border.  Housing cost less, re taxes less, nicer, all the convenience too.


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## Ralph Sir Edward (Nov 17, 2018)

Acreage homes? 10,000 sq foot? Location relative to UT/Capitol? I have no sense of equivalence. When I was in San Jose in June, (toured the San Jose Rose Garden), homes were both smaller and much more expensive than DFW. I have read that you can't buy a 3/1 less than a million in Silicon Valley. Am I misinformed?


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## jehb2 (Nov 17, 2018)

TravelTime said:


> I was looking at neighborhoods equivalent to where we live now in Silicon Valley and the pricing was $1 million + in Austin. I only saw 2 houses I liked in Austin. One was $1 million and the other was $2 million. I saw a lot I liked over $2 million.



You're definitely only looking at the central Austin area.  That is way too narrow of an area.  Are you just doing an internet search.


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## geist1223 (Nov 17, 2018)

VacationForever said:


> When I think Florida, 2 things always pop up in my mind, one is humidity and the other is hurricanes.  I don't think I would be happy retiring in Florida but lots of people do.
> 
> We have 2 neighbors in our condo building who moved here from Florida.  One couple cited high cost of living in Florida where their property taxes were outrageous - they lived in a high rise condo facing the water in Florida and they had to pay a premium for hurricane risk even though they were something like 30 storey up.  The other older couple who are now in their 80s moved here five years ago because her arthritis and she does much better in dry than humid.
> 
> When we visited Alaska, our tour guide said Alaskans have major drinking and drug abuse problems because of the cold and short days in winter and there was nothing else to do but to feel sorry for themselves.  Many people turn to drugs and booze as a form of escape.



When we think of Florida we think "no see ems" (those little black bugs that might and leave raised red marks), lizards (gators) big enough to eat our pets, humidity, and then hurricanes. Patti's sister and BIL had to evacuate in 2016 and 2017.


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## Ralph Sir Edward (Nov 17, 2018)

jehb2 said:


> You are so correct.  People outside the state hear property taxes and it freaks them out.  But you have to look at the whole picture.  What you pay in property taxes pales in comparison to the amount you pay in income taxes (No income tax in Texas).
> 
> No wait. Forget what I said.  The quality of life in central Texas is terrible.  Everyone stop moving here.



Rabies, rattlesnakes, and rednecks. Nobody should want Texas. . . .


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## Glynda (Nov 17, 2018)

Panina said:


> A little south of Charlotte business center about 25 minute is the South Carolina border.  Housing cost less, re taxes less, nicer, all the convenience too.



Funny you posted that. When hubby was transferred to Charlotte, NC, we chose to live in Rock Hill, SC, so that I could continue to get in-state tuition and finish my bachelor's degree. Went on to get my master's while there and first teaching position. Don't think I'd want to live in Rock Hill again though.  Fort Mill or the Tega Cay area perhaps.


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## Panina (Nov 17, 2018)

Glynda said:


> Funny you posted that. When hubby was transferred to Charlotte, NC, we chose to live in Rock Hill, SC, so that I could continue to get in-state tuition and finish my bachelor's degree. Went on to get my master's while there and first teaching position. Don't think I'd want to live in Rock Hill again though.  Fort Mill or the Tega Cay area perhaps.


Or Indian Land, SC, next town over from Fort Mill.


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## TravelTime (Nov 18, 2018)

Ralph Sir Edward said:


> Acreage homes? 10,000 sq foot? Location relative to UT/Capitol? I have no sense of equivalence. When I was in San Jose in June, (toured the San Jose Rose Garden), homes were both smaller and much more expensive than DFW. I have read that you can't buy a 3/1 less than a million in Silicon Valley. Am I misinformed?



Yes you are correct about the pricing in San Jose. The housing in San Jose is mostly tract homes with the exception of a few areas. The nice places to live in Silicon Valley are west of highway 85 in the incorporated towns. The average prices in these towns are $2 million +. These towns tend to have some charm and character though and nicer homes and some bigger lots. However, the homes would not be as big on average as Texas. 

If you go outside the Bay Area, you can get beautiful huge homes for “reasonable” prices (note the quotes) in some parts of California. The greater Sacramento region is an example. It is listed as one of the fastest growing secondary cities/regions in the country now. Many people are leaving the Bay Area and moving there. The average home price is 1/4 the price in the Bay Area.


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## jehb2 (Nov 18, 2018)

Here's another thought.  You mentioned your husband is an engineer.  It's unlikely that his business, company, or work will be located in the downtown area.  If this is the case I can't imagine you wanting to live in that general area. Seriously, you have so many options available to you.  2,200 sqft is on the small side here.  For $400,000 (and seriously that's still a lot) you can build or buy a big brand new home, all brick, in a great neighborhood.

But I'm guessing you really don't want to move.  I completely respect that.  But if you do I wouldn't rush to buy a home before you really got to know the area.  It took my mom 10 years before she finally moved out of her home 30+ years.  She has been living in a senior high rise for the last 2 years and loves it.  Still it was a very big step.  Best wishes.


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## WinniWoman (Nov 18, 2018)

Glynda said:


> We've lived in 21 houses in our 50 years of marriage! 9 years is the longest we've lived in a house. I never had the luxury of becoming too attached to a house, neighbors or things. It wouldn't be a problem for me to clean out and move.
> 
> But like others...where? We want 1 level living with the ability to lock and leave for travel. The ideal would be: No, or very little, snow. Fairly flat land. Green; not brown. No flooding, hurricanes, earthquakes, volcanoes or tornadoes. No mudslides or frequent wild fires. Few bugs. No red tide or green algae. Lots of sunshine but with low temperatures and no humidity. In, or close, to a vibrant city with major hospitals, universities and international airport. Oh, and where people say "y'all"!  Asking for much?
> 
> ...



LOL! You have basically said it all! Verdict? There is no perfect place!


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## klpca (Nov 18, 2018)

presley said:


> Same. You know, when the kids were little, I used to think about all the things I'd be able to do when they were older or moved out. When that day came, I realized that I didn't enjoy anything nearly as much without them.  I miss my babies every day. One time, I was at Costco and saw a woman in her 30's with a blonde pony tail with a little toddler in the shopping cart. When I saw her, my first thought was, "that used to be me." I almost started crying and I wanted to tell her how lucky she was to be able to go to Costco with her child, but I didn't because I know she would think I was a loony bird.
> 
> I thought I would never get over it, but I have made a new life for myself. I've changed my friends, my job, my future plans and with all these dogs, walking around the neighborhood has more memories of what my dogs have done, than what my kids have done, lol. I still know that the best days of my life have already passed and those were the days when I was raising my kids. I've made new goals and passions for living in the present moment. It's like a different life and I just think of myself living here for today and not for the reasons we bought the house in the first place or how the first 15 years were centered around raising kids.


You know what is stupid - I love the view from my backyard and that it is probably the one thing that keeps me from actually moving. I look online and if there is no view, then I'm not interested. So maybe I need to find the reset button in my brain. Thanks for sharing how you have been able to change your perspective, Presley.


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## Ralph Sir Edward (Nov 18, 2018)

TravelTime said:


> Yes you are correct about the pricing in San Jose. The housing in San Jose is mostly tract homes with the exception of a few areas. The nice places to live in Silicon Valley are west of highway 85 in the incorporated towns. The average prices in these towns are $2 million +. These towns tend to have some charm and character though and nicer homes and some bigger lots. However, the homes would not be as big on average as Texas.
> 
> If you go outside the Bay Area, you can get beautiful huge homes for “reasonable” prices (note the quotes) in some parts of California. The greater Sacramento region is an example. It is listed as one of the fastest growing secondary cities/regions in the country now. Many people are leaving the Bay Area and moving there. The average home price is 1/4 the price in the Bay Area.



I spent a summer in Sacramento in 1978, I'm somewhat familiar with the area. My question was - what was appealing about the Austin homes so I can determine what an equivalent house elsewhere in Texas would cost?


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## klpca (Nov 18, 2018)

I feel sorry for everyone in the bay area. The prices are so skewed. Even in San Diego the prices are substantially less and so is the traffic. I live less than 15 min from the beach and our house is under 1mm. And our taxes are less than 4k per year even though we added on to the house and put in a pool. One of the perks to staying put in CA. (Prop 13)


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## bogey21 (Nov 18, 2018)

Some of what I am reading about Property Taxes in Texas is a touch misleading if someone over 65 is thinking about moving to Texas.  I don't dispute that Property Taxes may be high if you live in a new $350,000 - $750,000  house in a growing Suburban area.  But here is the other side of the story.   My Son lives in a $185,000 house in a mature (but very nice) neighborhood in North Fort Worth.  Because his credit was bad we purchased his house in my name so we get the Homestead and Over 65 Exemptions.  His Property Taxes are less than $3,000 per year.  Note that they probably wouldn't be much different if the house was in his name as he would replace the Over 65 Exemption with his Military Disability Exemption....

George


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## jehb2 (Nov 18, 2018)

Ralph Sir Edward said:


> My question was - what was appealing about the Austin homes so I can determine what an equivalent house elsewhere in Texas would cost?



The only reason why Austin homes are the topic is because that was the Texas city people here talked about moving to.

But here's a really good point.  You can get the exact same new home, same builder, same everything in a different Texas city for a lot less.

For example, San Antonio is the 7th largest city in the US but the vibe is small town.  The cost of living in San Antonio is a lot less than Austin.  People really like Austin.  People really like San Antonio. But they are two very different cities.

A few years ago I toured a new home in Raleigh, NC.  The interior was identical to one I have just seen in Texas. The floor plan, floors, bathrooms, cabinets, counter tops, everything was the exact same.  The outside facades were different reflecting local architecture.  The Texas house was all brick.  The Raleigh house was wood.  The Raleigh house was much more expensive though.


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## Anne&Jim (Nov 18, 2018)

We live in the Bay Area / Silicon Valley also, and the cost of housing and traffic is truly daunting, but we love the weather, for the most part, and the green.  But frankly, once we retire, I can’t see us continuing to try to afford to stay here.  I think we could have a much higher standard of living elsewhere.  We are also considering Las Vegas for the same reasons already mentioned.  As well, we are considering Costa Rica— no one’s mentioned that yet.  We are here for the week and the view from the back yard is so amazing— there’s no way we could afford this view in California in retirement.  We try to come here at least once a year, and at some point we are going to need to try longer stays to really prove if we would love it as much as we do on vacation.  We still have 10 years of work before retirement, but we are learning so much from you all here on TUG, that we are very grateful for all of your suggestions and viewpoints!










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## klpca (Nov 18, 2018)

Anne&Jim said:


> We live in the Bay Area / Silicon Valley also, and the cost of housing and traffic is truly daunting, but we love the weather, for the most part, and the green.  But frankly, once we retire, I can’t see us continuing to try to afford to stay here.  I think we could have a much higher standard of living elsewhere.  We are also considering Las Vegas for the same reasons already mentioned.  As well, we are considering Costa Rica— no one’s mentioned that yet.  We are here for the week and the view from the back yard is so amazing— there’s no way we could afford this view in California in retirement.  We try to come here at least once a year, and at some point we are going to need to try longer stays to really prove if we would love it as much as we do on vacation.  We still have 10 years of work before retirement, but we are learning so much from you all here on TUG, that we are very grateful for all of your suggestions and viewpoints!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


We considered moving abroad until my husband was diagnosed with cancer. Now we need to stay close to his doctors. We are less than 5 years from retirement. Cancer diagnosis was 3 years ago. A completely life changing event. So what I am saying, is you also need to consider health care because you never know what's around the corner.

Btw, with views like that I would consider moving! Beautiful.


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## DrQ (Nov 18, 2018)

I love Texas, but you need to understand it get HOT here in the spring/summer/fall.  If you think of moving here, vacation in San Antonio for a week in July or August.  Try Houston in July


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## DrQ (Nov 18, 2018)

klpca said:


> You know what is stupid - I love the view from my backyard and that it is probably the one thing that keeps me from actually moving. I look online and if there is no view, then I'm not interested. So maybe I need to find the reset button in my brain. Thanks for sharing how you have been able to change your perspective, Presley.
> View attachment 9104 View attachment 9105


If you want views in Texas, look at the Hill Country.


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## jehb2 (Nov 18, 2018)

Ann&Jim if I owned your home I don't think I would have a need for timeshares.  That's beautiful.

[correction]
Is that your Costa Rica view?  It's still gorgeous.  Is that a timeshare, vacation rental?


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## bbodb1 (Nov 18, 2018)

geist1223 said:


> When we think of Florida we think "no see ems" (those little black bugs that might and leave raised red marks), lizards (gators) big enough to eat our pets, humidity, and then hurricanes. Patti's sister and BIL had to evacuate in 2016 and 2017.



And the reality is that any of the items on your list could have caused the need for evacuation!


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## bbodb1 (Nov 18, 2018)

DrQ said:


> I love Texas, but you need to understand it get HOT here in the spring/summer/fall.  If you think of moving here, vacation in San Antonio for a week in July or August.  Try Houston in July



..or the surface of the sun.  It's all the same.......


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## WinniWoman (Nov 18, 2018)

klpca said:


> You know what is stupid - I love the view from my backyard and that it is probably the one thing that keeps me from actually moving. I look online and if there is no view, then I'm not interested. So maybe I need to find the reset button in my brain. Thanks for sharing how you have been able to change your perspective, Presley.
> View attachment 9104 View attachment 9105



Katherine- that view is awesome! Is that a pool you have there! To me- that's heaven!


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## Anne&Jim (Nov 18, 2018)

jehb2 said:


> Ann&Jim if I owned your home I don't think I would have a need for timeshares.  That's beautiful.
> 
> [correction]
> Is that your Costa Rica view?  It's still gorgeous.  Is that a timeshare, vacation rental?



I WISH this was our place!  It’s a vacation rental through Inspirato.  We are going out with a real estate agent to look around, but we’re not really ready to make the commitment yet.  If we could find a place to rent out until we retire, it might be something to consider.  Has anyone else bought a place early and rented it out until retirement?  I’d love to hear those stories!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Anne&Jim (Nov 18, 2018)

mpumilia said:


> Katherine- that view is awesome! Is that a pool you have there! To me- that's heaven!



Agree!  I would rent that view in a heartbeat!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## slip (Nov 18, 2018)

Anne&Jim said:


> We live in the Bay Area / Silicon Valley also, and the cost of housing and traffic is truly daunting, but we love the weather, for the most part, and the green.  But frankly, once we retire, I can’t see us continuing to try to afford to stay here.  I think we could have a much higher standard of living elsewhere.  We are also considering Las Vegas for the same reasons already mentioned.  As well, we are considering Costa Rica— no one’s mentioned that yet.  We are here for the week and the view from the back yard is so amazing— there’s no way we could afford this view in California in retirement.  We try to come here at least once a year, and at some point we are going to need to try longer stays to really prove if we would love it as much as we do on vacation.  We still have 10 years of work before retirement, but we are learning so much from you all here on TUG, that we are very grateful for all of your suggestions and viewpoints!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



That's what we did when we decided on Hawaii. We made sure we went at least once a year for a couple weeks and we went at different times over the years. August is the only month we haven't been there.

We thought about different country's too. I even subscribed to International Living for a couple of years. Costa Rica, Mexico and Belize were on the list. Large savings can be had but the savings aren't as large if you stay in the expat communities. You need to stay among the locals for the real savings. For us that made the language barrier the main issue.

While living in the expat areas are safe you have to be careful in other areas. You really need to do a lot of research to narrow down your areas. In the time we reasearched, it seemed to us that Mexico has the most promise for real savings. Belize and Costa Rica were already starting to get expensive. They all can definitely still work for others though.

I still have some copies of International Living, if someone is interested, I can send them to you.

I just purchase my condo in Molokai and  just started renting it out while we are not there until we retire.


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## klpca (Nov 18, 2018)

DrQ said:


> If you want views in Texas, look at the Hill Country.


I'm not the poster who wants to move to Tx. We're staying in San Diego.


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## klpca (Nov 18, 2018)

mpumilia said:


> Katherine- that view is awesome! Is that a pool you have there! To me- that's heaven!


Yep. It's hard to go to another place without a view when you have been looking at this for 30 years. It is one of life's greatest pleasures. We actually remodeled the living room so that the focus is on the view. Now we sit in there every morning and watch the sun come up while we have our coffee.


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## Anne&Jim (Nov 18, 2018)

klpca said:


> Yep. It's hard to go to another place without a view when you have been looking at this for 30 years. It is one of life's greatest pleasures. We actually remodeled the living room so that the focus is on the view. Now we sit in there every morning and watch the sun come up while we have our coffee.



Now that’s heaven!


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## DrQ (Nov 18, 2018)

klpca said:


> I'm not the poster who wants to move to Tx. We're staying in San Diego.


With that view, I can't blame you.

That said, the Hill Country is my favorite part of Texas. Galveston is out of the running because they don't consider themselves part of Texas.


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## CalGalTraveler (Nov 18, 2018)

@klpca  What a gorgeous view! We have a similar view in Bay Area and like you, nothing compares with similar views, climate and home amenities. Though we are socked in today with smoke from the Camp fire 200 miles away and can barely see a block away.

Sadly many of the residents in Paradise were retirees who moved out of the expensive Bay Area for the foothills. One of the victims was a former mentor to my DH early in his career. Very sad.


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## klpca (Nov 18, 2018)

CalGalTraveler said:


> @klpca That's a gorgeous view! We have a similar view in Bay Area and like you, nothing compares with similar views, climate and home amenities. Though we are socked in today with smoke from the Camp fire 200 miles away and can barely see a block away.
> 
> Sadly many of the residents in Paradise were retirees who moved out of the expensive Bay Area for the foothills. One of the victims was a former mentor to my DH early in his career. Very sad.


I just makes you sick to hear those stories. I'll see if I can dig up a picture taken from our backyard during the Cedar fire. I hate fires and what it does to people's lives, I hate the smoke.

Edit: found it. Can't figure out how to move it to the bottom  though. Btw, if I recall correctly, this was taken during the early afternoon, maybe 2:00ish. Obviously looking in a different direction than my other pictures. Funny to see the old fence, brick pool coping, and the green plastic chairs!


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## DrQ (Nov 18, 2018)

We share your pain. I recall the Bastrop fires of 2011.  While not on the same scale, we do see fires in Texas too.

Our prayers are with you.


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## Anne&Jim (Nov 18, 2018)

CalGalTraveler said:


> @klpca That's a gorgeous view! We have a similar view in Bay Area and like you, nothing compares with similar views, climate and home amenities. Though we are socked in today with smoke from the Camp fire 200 miles away and can barely see a block away.
> 
> Sadly many of the residents in Paradise were retirees who moved out of the expensive Bay Area for the foothills. One of the victims was a former mentor to my DH early in his career. Very sad.



CalGal, I’m so sorry to hear that.  These fires are really scary and my heart goes out to those impacted, including your DH in losing his mentor.


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## VacationForever (Nov 18, 2018)

Anne&Jim said:


> I WISH this was our place!  It’s a vacation rental through Inspirato.  We are going out with a real estate agent to look around, but we’re not really ready to make the commitment yet.  If we could find a place to rent out until we retire, it might be something to consider.  Has anyone else bought a place early and rented it out until retirement?  I’d love to hear those stories!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


We bought our retirement earlier and only moved in 2.5 yrs later.  We did not rent it out as we didn't want someone else leaving in our home.


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## Anne&Jim (Nov 18, 2018)

VacationForever said:


> We bought our retirement earlier and only moved in 2.5 yrs later.  We did not rent it out as we didn't want someone else leaving in our home.



I totally know what you mean!  Last year we looked at some new construction and my first thought was that I couldn’t bear to see the wear and tear put on it by renters.  That’s when I came up with a plan to buy something existing that could be remodeled when it’s time to move in.  Yes, lofty goals for a girl who figured my retirement lifestyle would include the phrase, “Would you like fries with that?”


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## bbodb1 (Nov 18, 2018)

Good morning Katherine, 


I was thinking more about your OP the last couple of days and wanted to revisit it to offer a few thoughts: 




klpca said:


> We have lived in our home for 31 years. We have so many happy memories here.




Our story is similar here.  Every time I walk past a room, I see a memory or think about something that happened in the past.  It may have been an inconsequential event at the time (perhaps just a quick conversation on something that happened that day) but it was an interaction between one (or more) of my kids and me.  Those memories are triggered mainly by this house.  Nothing can change that and it would be hard to relocate that.  




klpca said:


> We love our neighbors, and the view from our back yard.




Here is where our experiences differ - my wife and I were so involved in the lives of our kids that we really did not get to know our neighbors.  It was also that case that our family was the only family in our immediate area with kids as our neighbors were at other points in their lives in terms of kids.  Most of the families here had older kids so we never really bonded with our neighbors.  I think it is fair to say we were (and are) out of synch with most of the families in our neighborhood.  And our view isn’t really all that spectacular either.  I say that to note that a connection to neighbors and a view will not keep us here any longer than necessary.  





klpca said:


> Things remind me of the passage of time - I will see something that reminds me of walking the kids to school and suddenly I realize that it was 30 years ago. (Head says: I must be old!)




That is the effect I feel when I turn the corner in a hallway in our home, or enter a room I haven’t been in for weeks.  I am sad because of who is not there anymore despite the fact I know the natural end point for kids at home is that they one day move out.  The logic of that point does nothing to quell the emptiness I feel inside.    




klpca said:


> It is making me think that perhaps we should consider a move to another community in the area.




Because we are stuck here until we retire, I too was considering the possibility of suggesting we look for a smaller home for financial reasons.  


But for me anyway, there is a reality that says if I am going to have to be here for perhaps as long as 10 more years (when we reach the optimal age for retirement), I’d rather be surrounded by memories from (pretty much) the only house our kids have ever known AND (pretty much) the only house where I’ve really known my kids.  


I say pretty much because our oldest was born when we lived in Minnesota but we relocated to Arkansas before he started school.  I still have very fond memories of the places we lived in Minnesota because of our oldest son doing things newborns and toddlers do.  Those type of memories CANNOT be relocated but they can be recalled.  Here’s an example: only our oldest child loved his Johnny Jumpup and he would wear himself out in that thing.  He would jump so much (for so long) he would fall asleep in that thing from exhaustion.  I will never forget that as long as I live but that memory is of/from a house in Minnesota.  I don’t see that memory in our current house in Arkansas.  I know that may not seem all that large of a distinction to others, but it is to me.  It is hard to explain but I think I understand where you are coming from.  I hated to leave that place because of the events that happened there.  It ripped a hole in my soul that exists to this day despite the fact that move made sense from so many other perspectives.  

Any subsequent move from our current house will produce the same effect to me.


This is why if we do move again, I intend this move be our last move and to a place we really want to move to.  You asked the following:  




klpca said:


> Have any of you made that kind of move and if so, how do you feel about it now? We had always planned to stay here forever, but as time goes by I am not so sure. Or maybe this feeling will pass?




I can only say there are some feelings I never want to lose - feelings I hope go with me from place to place that do NOT fade away over time because the stimuli that brings those memories out for a romp is gone.  There are no guarantees though.  All I feel I can do is work with the wife to pick the best place for the rest of our time and hope for the best.  


I know that is not the most uplifting response you’ll read, but (at least for me) it seems to be down to earth real.


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## Luanne (Nov 18, 2018)

CalGalTraveler said:


> @klpca That's a gorgeous view! We have a similar view in Bay Area and like you, nothing compares with similar views, climate and home amenities. Though we are socked in today with smoke from the Camp fire 200 miles away and can barely see a block away.
> 
> Sadly many of the residents in Paradise were retirees who moved out of the expensive Bay Area for the foothills. One of the victims was a former mentor to my DH early in his career. Very sad.


My bff and her daughter live in Paradise.  They lost everything. Two years ago she lost her husband, he is the one who wanted to move to Paradise and this was going to be their retirement home.  Her dd basically grew up there.  We are devastated for them, and for everyone who lost basically everything.


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## klpca (Nov 18, 2018)

bbodb1 said:


> Good morning Katherine,
> 
> 
> I was thinking more about your OP the last couple of days and wanted to revisit it to offer a few thoughts:
> ...


This is very helpful honestly. I am (slowly) coming to the realization that there will be a give and take if we move. We get a fresh start somewhere, but lose the house that we love. But like I say in the tag line on my posts, no matter where you go, there you are. I think that I need to make the change in me, not my surroundings, at least not now. Presley's post inspired me to make some changes in my life - I'll be keeping my friends because I love them and we go back over 30 years. There's a lot of shared history. I will keep my job for a few more years because I committed to staying until my boss retires - and he's close. But I can find some new hobbies, and I think that I may just put the dog in the car and drive somewhere else for our walks so that I don't get hit with memories every time I walk around the block. I am in control of how I move through life and I think that I can easily change some things to give me a fresh perspective.


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## TravelTime (Nov 18, 2018)

Anne&Jim said:


> We live in the Bay Area / Silicon Valley also, and the cost of housing and traffic is truly daunting, but we love the weather, for the most part, and the green.  But frankly, once we retire, I can’t see us continuing to try to afford to stay here.  I think we could have a much higher standard of living elsewhere.  We are also considering Las Vegas for the same reasons already mentioned.  As well, we are considering Costa Rica— no one’s mentioned that yet.  We are here for the week and the view from the back yard is so amazing— there’s no way we could afford this view in California in retirement.  We try to come here at least once a year, and at some point we are going to need to try longer stays to really prove if we would love it as much as we do on vacation.  We still have 10 years of work before retirement, but we are learning so much from you all here on TUG, that we are very grateful for all of your suggestions and viewpoints!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Where in Costa Rica are you? We are going to Peninsula Papagayo in July. But it sounds super expensive there too.


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## bnoble (Nov 18, 2018)

I have learned that I can live anywhere and be happy, and I've lived in several very different places. Being happy or not about where I live is up to me. Moving (or changing jobs, or relationships, or ...) so that I can be happy generally doesn't work, because problem isn't where I live (or where I work or who I live with), it's the guy in the mirror.


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## Anne&Jim (Nov 18, 2018)

TravelTime said:


> Where in Costa Rica are you? We are going to Peninsula Papagayo in July. But it sounds super expensive there too.



We are in Guanacaste region, Playa Hermosa.  It’s beautiful and there are expensive AND inexpensive places to stay — and they are all good in my book!


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## Luanne (Nov 18, 2018)

Anne&Jim said:


> I WISH this was our place!  It’s a vacation rental through Inspirato.  We are going out with a real estate agent to look around, but we’re not really ready to make the commitment yet.  If we could find a place to rent out until we retire, it might be something to consider.  Has anyone else bought a place early and rented it out until retirement?  I’d love to hear those stories!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


We didn't do this, but I have friends who did.  We are in Santa Fe and there is a big market for rentals during opera season.  One of my friends rented to personally associated with the opera for a few years.  She ended up having such bad experiences with them that she stopped.  We have other friends who occupy their homes here on a part time basis and rent it out when they aren't here (so it wouldn't be a long term rental).


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## TravelTime (Nov 18, 2018)

klpca said:


> I'm not the poster who wants to move to Tx. We're staying in San Diego.



I mentioned moving to Austin only because my DH mentioned maybe he could keep his job there. However after I looked at real estate prices in nice neighborhoods west of Austin near hill country, I changed my mind. It would not be much of a cost savings and it might be a huge culture shock and weather probably would be worse. We need to explore for the next couple of years before making a decision.


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## vacationhopeful (Nov 18, 2018)

A decade or more ago, a male single friend moved to the Phillipines for his retirement years. He sent me an email about losing his Passport (an experience I had when travelling with him in Eastern Europe a few years earlier). He wanted to know WHAT he had to do to get a new passport.

After I stopped laughing, I emailed him the procedure ... US Embassy, local police report, all day at Embassy and some dollars for the cost of new passport. Bring any other ID with you. Well, he was scuba diving off the beach of some isolated islands and WHINED about it interrupting his vacationing ... he just would wait and go to the Embassy a day or two before his flights back to USA.

Bad Plan ... and I emailed him that.

6 weeks later, he went to Embassy the day before his flights home. Seems he found it was MUCH cheaper to scuba dive in the "Al Quida" area than the tradiational US friendly tourist areas. He got introduced to "Mr Smith" at the US Embassy ... short hair, trim, in shape, square jaw male who started with Day 1 of his 5+ month trip with the "WHO, WHAT YOU DID and SLEPT WHERE" interview. And then dismissed after a couple of hours, with a "Come back tomorrow early AM or ELSE" appearance. The emails he sent out to me and his network of US family and friends got MORE desperate each day. He lost his business class ticket and finally over a week later, got a NEW passport and paid MORE dollars for a next day flight home to USA for a coach middle seat for the very long flight back to New Jersey.

He visited Thailand the next winter and moved there a few years later fulltime after selling his house near me.


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## DrQ (Nov 18, 2018)

TravelTime said:


> I mentioned moving to Austin only because my DH mentioned maybe he could keep his job there. However after I looked at real estate prices in nice neighborhoods west of Austin near hill country, I changed my mind. It would not be much of a cost savings and it might be a huge culture shock and weather probably would be worse. We need to explore for the next couple of years before making a decision.


Unless he is transferring within the same company, I think that there would be more oppertunity in Dallas/Ft Worth, Houston or San Antonio. Austin has a lot of HiTech BUT it is an expensive city in which to live.


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## jackio (Nov 18, 2018)

We, too, were in our house for 31 years. It was a starter home, all we could afford in 1986. It was a new development and all of the neighbors were young couples starting out. We all 
Knew each other and it was a great place to raise our 3 children.
The neighborhood started changing around 10 years ago when the original families started moving out and younger families started moving in. The prices had gone up so both parents were generally working and no one was meeting up in the street chatting anymore. We were one of the oldest left.
We were only 20 minutes away from our grown children and enjoyed the house. However the yard got to be a lot and DH started having health issues.  
We had done some work through the years. The house was brand new when we moved in. We replaced the roof, windows, countertop and one bathroom, but we were faced with a lot of updating and repairs that needed to be done.
That is what prompted us to move. We would have to sink a lot of money into the house, so we decided to cash out and let some young, energetic couple do it. The lovely couple who bought the house loved the big yard and loved the idea of making the house their own. The were enthusiastic about all the needed updates.
So we moved to a small cottage 2 BR, 2 BA in a 55+ community about a half hour away. The yard is small and manageable. There are a lot of activities. Since we still work, we don’t take advantage of a lot of them, but we have met many nice people. We had everything updated before we moved in so we didn’t have to deal with construction. We think it was a good move.
Our taxes on our 1200 sq ft house were $9,000 yearly. Here we pay about the same between the taxes and the HOA fees.


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## am1 (Nov 18, 2018)

International living is pretty much a scam.  They make everything sound good so people send money on their services.  

One can find better prices without a realtor.  Just need to ask around.  Do not be afraid to kick some tires and lowball.  

Buying new to rent out before retirement may not be a bad idea as once you are ready to live in it may be time to remodel anyways.   But not easy to manage from afar.


----------



## TravelTime (Nov 18, 2018)

vacationhopeful said:


> A decade or more ago, a male single friend moved to the Phillipines for his retirement years. He sent me an email about losing his Passport (an experience I had when travelling with him in Eastern Europe a few years earlier). He wanted to know WHAT he had to do to get a new passport.
> 
> After I stopped laughing, I emailed him the procedure ... US Embassy, local police report, all day at Embassy and some dollars for the cost of new passport. Bring any other ID with you. Well, he was scuba diving off the beach of some isolated islands and WHINED about it interrupting his vacationing ... he just would wait and go to the Embassy a day or two before his flights back to USA.
> 
> ...



I do not completely understand the point of this story except that he had a hard time. Did he end up okay in the end?


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## slip (Nov 18, 2018)

am1 said:


> International living is pretty much a scam.  They make everything sound good so people send money on their services.
> 
> One can find better prices without a realtor.  Just need to ask around.  Do not be afraid to kick some tires and lowball.
> 
> Buying new to rent out before retirement may not be a bad idea as once you are ready to live in it may be time to remodel anyways.   But not easy to manage from afar.



International Living sells a lot of services. We just subscribed to the magazine. The magazine was very informative and over the year we subscribed, helped us decide that it really wasn't for us. They do send you a bunch of other information to try to sell you in their other service's. We never did any of that.

When we subscribed, it was just to explore all avenues and we didn't really think it was for us. I'm glad we subscribed and checked it out. In the long run it helped us in our decision.


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## TravelTime (Nov 18, 2018)

Okay, this thread has inspired me to move today to my second home in the Sierra Foothills outside the greater Sacramento region on the way to northern Lake Tahoe. I already own my dream home so why move out of state now? If I can just convince my DH to figure out how to telecommute to the Bay Area, we can semi-retire now and sell our Bay Area house now. Then just maintain one home. In 10-15 years when it is real retirement time, we can decide if we want to leave California altogether. I can already telecommute. I was going to sell my dream home and keep my Bay Area home but why? I hate the Bay Area and love the northern Sierra Foothills and northern Lake Tahoe.


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## klpca (Nov 18, 2018)

TravelTime said:


> Okay, this thread has inspired me to move today to my second home in the Sierra Foothills outside the greater Sacramento region on the way to northern Lake Tahoe. I already own my dream home so why move out of state now? If I can just convince my DH to figure out how to telecommute to the Bay Area, we can semi-retire now and sell our Bay Area house now. Then just maintain one home. In 10-15 years when it is real retirement time, we can decide if we want to leave California altogether. I can already telecommute. I was going to sell my dream home and keep my Bay Area home but why? I hate the Bay Area and love the northern Sierra Foothills and northern Lake Tahoe.


Why not Incline Village?


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## TravelTime (Nov 18, 2018)

We own a beautiful 5500 sf Mediterranean style custom home with pool on 1.5 acres with a 10 acre private preserve behind us in a 1000 acre golf country club on the California side below the snow belt. You can’t find this for what we paid in Incline Village or anywhere else in California. We bought it during the downturn well below construction cost. It has been increasing $100K per year since we purchased.

I am tired of paying for 2 homes and my DH has refused to move. So I am moving without him and hoping he will follow. I said no to Austin. I already have what I want. Then we can cash out on Silicon Valley.


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## DavidnRobin (Nov 18, 2018)

TravelTime said:


> The greater Sacramento region is an example. It is listed as one of the fastest growing secondary cities/regions in the country now. Many people are leaving the Bay Area and moving there. The average home price is 1/4 the price in the Bay Area.



This is not true. Prices in Silicon Valley (normal homes) are around $900-1000 per sqft.  Greater Sacramento for an equivalent home is not <$250/sqft.



Ralph Sir Edward said:


> Acreage homes? 10,000 sq foot? Location relative to UT/Capitol? I have no sense of equivalence. When I was in San Jose in June, (toured the San Jose Rose Garden), homes were both smaller and much more expensive than DFW. I have read that you can't buy a 3/1 less than a million in Silicon Valley. Am I misinformed?



They can be found, but either a tear down or a neighborhood that you may not want to live in.

We just sold our 3Bd/2Ba (2000sqft) home of 15 years in the mid-SF Peninsula for $850/sqft. 6-day Escrow.
Moving to an apartment in Sunnyvale (renting) to be closer to MIL, and taking money off the table (so to speak).  May never be able to get back into SF Bay Real Estate - unless another depression in prices. Personally, IMO, the affordability limit has been reached here.  Since we have sold (and while we were selling) it seems that the supply has increased dramatically- especially for this time of year.
We shall see...
But, onto our next stage in life.

I would never live in an open carry state regardless of tax savings.
(or is that considered too political...)


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## DrQ (Nov 18, 2018)

DavidnRobin said:


> I would never live in an open carry state regardless of tax savings.
> (or is that considered too political...)


All states are open carry when you disregard the law.


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## DavidnRobin (Nov 18, 2018)

^^^^ probably an unnecessary comment ^^^^


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## bbodb1 (Nov 18, 2018)

To be fair David, I'm having difficulty in seeing the relevance of your point:



DavidnRobin said:


> ... I would never live in an open carry state regardless of tax savings.


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## TravelTime (Nov 18, 2018)

DavidnRobin said:


> This is not true. Prices in Silicon Valley (normal homes) are around $900-1000 per sqft.  Greater Sacramento for an equivalent home is not <$250/sqft.



How much is a home in Greater Sacramento area? Maybe it is at most $300 - $400 a square foot in a nice area (I think $400 is way high but I will through that out there). It is not more than that. In my neighborhood and in places like Palo Alto, homes are above $1000 a square foot. I can compare where I live to where I own my second home and we paid about 1/4 the price per square foot. However, my second home is 2.5 times the size of my primary home and we have acreage and the finishes and design are amazing for the price per square foot so in reality we are really paying a lot less if did comps.

Update: Zillow says it is $228 per square foot in Sacramento County. https://www.zillow.com/sacramento-county-ca/home-values/

Placer County is always higher because it is much nicer. That is where our house is. Placer borders Sacramento County and includes North Tahoe and other upscale neighborhoods like Granite Bay.


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## TravelTime (Nov 18, 2018)

This article just came out. Note the comments about the Sacramento region.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/real...e8-aeb7-ddcad4a0a54e_story.html?noredirect=on


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## jehb2 (Nov 18, 2018)

TravelTime said:


> The homes in Austin are not a bargain compared to what we already own in California (since we have owned for awhile).





TravelTime said:


> However after I looked at real estate prices in nice neighborhoods west of Austin near hill country, I changed my mind. It would not be much of a cost savings...



I'll try one more time.  I know you're not moving to Austin but your understanding of the real estate market in Austin is very skewed.  The second area you are referring to is Westlake.  Home to 2 very wealthy private schools where tuition starts at $30,000 a year.  When you say "homes in Austin are not a bargain compared to what we already own in California" BUT you are only comparing it to Westlake--that's like saying "The homes in Florida are not a bargain compared to what we already own in California" but you only looked at homes in West Palm Beach or like saying "The homes in New York are not a bargain compared to what we already own in California" but you only looked at condos on the upper East side.

Anyway, I say that not for your benefit but for any other interested individuals.


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## TravelTime (Nov 18, 2018)

jehb2 said:


> I'll try one more time.  I know you're not moving to Austin but your understanding of the real estate market in Austin is very skewed.  The second area you are referring to is Westlake.  Home to 2 very wealthy private schools where tuition starts at $30,000 a year.  When you say "homes in Austin are not a bargain compared to what we already own in California" BUT you are only comparing it to Westlake--that's like saying "The homes in Florida are not a bargain compared to what we already own in California" but you only looked at homes in West Palm Beach or like saying "The homes in New York are not a bargain compared to what we already own in California" but you only looked at condos on the upper East side.
> 
> Anyway, I say that not for your benefit but for any other interested individuals.



That is because I would only move to a comparable home and neighborhood. If I want to trade down, I can do that in California too but not in Newport Beach or La Jolla, maybe in Ventura or Carlsbad or Palm Desert or even San Diego. I was hoping we could move to an equivalent upscale neighborhood in Austin for half price. That will not happen in Austin. I was looking at some real estate charts and Austin now ranks among the most expensive real estate markets in the country and the world. Shocking to me. Of course, they are probably also only including the exclusive zip codes. Thank you for clarifying that I am only looking at the tony neighborhoods. I do understand that. I think perhaps the Las Vegas area might be great but DH will not consider. So for now I am working on Placer County area of California where we already own a second home.


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## klpca (Nov 18, 2018)

Took the walk down to Mission Bay tonight. Even the dog enjoyed the change of venue


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## SmithOp (Nov 18, 2018)

We took a walk at Crystal Cove, about the same time judging by the sunset.








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## jehb2 (Nov 18, 2018)

TravelTime said:


> That is because I would only move to a comparable home and neighborhood.



How exactly did you decide that central Austin and Westlake are the ONLY areas in Austin that are comparable to your current neighborhood.  What exactly are your parameters.  If you did it based on price, well it simply doesn't work that way.  If you tour the Austin housing market you'll discover that if you want something COMPARABLE to what you have now you won't pay $2,000,000.000.  You can pay $500,000-$600,000. And if you want to spend $1,000,000 then you can get a heck of a lot more then what you currently have.

Your internet search is very limited.  It simply won't give you all the information you're looking for.

That's why all the Californians are going crazy when they move here.  They sell their homes in California.  They buy a bigger better house than what they had in California and in a great neighborhood.  Often they can pay cash and pocket the rest of the money from the sell of their California home.  Although traffic sucks here it's still not as bad as what they left behind.  This is no secret.  Just google "Californians moving to Texas."  It's been going on for quite a while.  Hence the local joke "Austin sucks, don't move here."


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## VacationForever (Nov 18, 2018)

View from our living room.


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## TravelTime (Nov 18, 2018)

jehb2 said:


> How exactly did you decide that central Austin and Westlake are the ONLY areas in Austin that are comparable to your current neighborhood.  What exactly are your parameters.  If you did it based on price, well it simply doesn't work that way.  If you tour the Austin housing market you'll discover that if you want something COMPARABLE to what you have now you won't pay $2,000,000.000.  You can pay $500,000-$600,000. And if you want to spend $1,000,000 then you can get a heck of a lot more then what you currently have.
> 
> Your internet search is very limited.  It simply won't give you all the information you're looking for.
> 
> That's why all the Californians are going crazy when they move here.  They sell their homes in California.  They buy a bigger better house than what they had in California and in a great neighborhood.  Often they can pay cash and pocket the rest of the money from the sell of their California home.  Although traffic sucks here it's still not as bad as what they left behind.  This is no secret.  Just google "Californians moving to Texas."  It's been going on for quite a while.  Hence the local joke "Austin sucks, don't move here."



Where do you recommend looking in Austin to get a nice upscale home in a nice upscale house for $500,000 to $600,000? That would be fabulous!


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## TravelTime (Nov 18, 2018)

Apparently we live in the 18th most expensive zip code in the United States. This was a bit of a shock for me actually. Median home value in my zip code is over $3 million and nothing is for sale!

https://www.forbes.com/sites/andrew...8-2018-most-expensive-zip-codes/#24104b9d1aea


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## geist1223 (Nov 18, 2018)

slip said:


> That's what we did when we decided on Hawaii. We made sure we went at least once a year for a couple weeks and we went at different times over the years. August is the only month we haven't been there.
> 
> We thought about different country's too. I even subscribed to International Living for a couple of years. Costa Rica, Mexico and Belize were on the list. Large savings can be had but the savings aren't as large if you stay in the expat communities. You need to stay among the locals for the real savings. For us that made the language barrier the main issue.
> 
> ...



We had a co-worker that retired about 5 years before we did. He moved to a coastal (does not like seafood) community in Mexico (does not speak Spanish well he can order a beer and find the bathroom), and had surrounded the home he bought with a 10 foot wall. We have never understood why he moved to Mexico.


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## CalGalTraveler (Nov 18, 2018)

IMO if you want to remain in the Bay Area, the TriValley and Contra Costa in the East Bay are  about half per square foot what you'd are experiencing on the peninsula and south bay. You might get a newer house, larger lot and equivalent neighborhood and schools.


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## slip (Nov 18, 2018)

geist1223 said:


> We had a co-worker that retired about 5 years before we did. He moved to a coastal (does not like seafood) community in Mexico (does not speak Spanish well he can order a beer and find the bathroom), and had surrounded the home he bought with a 10 foot wall. We have never understood why he moved to Mexico.




That does sound a bit strange. Is he still there? Maybe it worked out anyway.


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## geist1223 (Nov 18, 2018)

He is still there. He travels a lot. He does a lot of cruises. He mainly communicates only with other Ex-pats. He travels back to Oregon once or twice per year. We have never understood his decision. Even when we are only in an area for 2 to 3 weeks we try to immerse ourselves in the local community has much as possible.


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## TravelTime (Nov 18, 2018)

geist1223 said:


> He is still there. He travels a lot. He does a lot of cruises. He mainly communicates only with other Ex-pats. He travels back to Oregon once or twice per year. We have never understood his decision. Even when we are only in an area for 2 to 3 weeks we try to immerse ourselves in the local community has much as possible.



Maybe he liked the low cost of living? Maybe he goes out in Mexico and no one is aware? We are sort of hermits and I can imagine doing something similar that no one else would understand. Don’t judge!


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## slip (Nov 18, 2018)

geist1223 said:


> He is still there. He travels a lot. He does a lot of cruises. He mainly communicates only with other Ex-pats. He travels back to Oregon once or twice per year. We have never understood his decision. Even when we are only in an area for 2 to 3 weeks we try to immerse ourselves in the local community has much as possible.



I’m the same way as you but that’s why these expat communities exist. He has good weather, people he can communicate with and he probably still lives there much cheaper. Who are we to judge.


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## jehb2 (Nov 18, 2018)

TravelTime said:


> Apparently we live in the 18th most expensive zip code in the United States. This was a bit of a shock for me actually. Median home value in my zip code is over $3 million and nothing is for sale!
> 
> https://www.forbes.com/sites/andrew...8-2018-most-expensive-zip-codes/#24104b9d1aea



Exactly!  Yes. Thank you.  You live in Silicon Valley!  Those of us outside Silicon Valley know that Silicon Valley is a really expensive housing market.  And yes, comparable houses are indeed much cheaper in Austin than in Silicon Valley.  No question.

And I sent you a pm of a listing.  The first one that popped up.


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## silentg (Nov 19, 2018)

We visited Austin TX last year. We are originally from Boston, and moved to Florida 31 years ago. 
I was surprised how much I like Austin, although we stayed in Lake Travers in the hill country, but we went to San Antonio, Dallas and Johnson City. We met lots of people from California who have or will be moving to Texas. We kept hearing,”Everything is booming in Texas” and we saw lot of building going on there. We will stay in Florida and travel to many areas on vacations as long as we are both healthy. It’s nice to have choices.
Silentg


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## WinniWoman (Nov 19, 2018)

I don't mean to put down Austin- I have never been there. But a coworker of mine visited there last summer for her sister's wedding and she hated it. She said there were tons of homeless people/drug addicts in the streets. She felt it was dirty. The outskirts of the city she said were ok. But she said no way would she ever live there- both she and her husband were disappointed because they thought they would love it.


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## WinniWoman (Nov 19, 2018)

All I can say is moving somewhere is not the same as vacationing somewhere. You can like vacationing in a place but still not want to live there.

"Wherever you go, there you are." 

People are always searching, but the grass isn't always greener elsewhere. The greenest grass could be right under where your feet are presently and you might not realize it.


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## DrQ (Nov 19, 2018)

mpumilia said:


> I don't mean to put down Austin- I have never been there. But a coworker of mine visited there last summer for her sister's wedding and she hated it. She said there were tons of homeless people/drug addicts in the streets. She felt it was dirty. The outskirts of the city she said were ok. But she said no way would she ever live there- both she and her husband were disappointed because they thought they would love it.


I take it she hasn't been to San Francisco, Chicago, New York ...  I worked in downtown Dallas and saw the homeless panhandling.

Yes there are rough parts of Austin, what city does not have them?

Funny story, my wife and I went to a restaurant in near downtown San Antonio. This was long before consumer GPS and smart phones. I hired a car to drive us to the restaurant and on the way I saw a woman on the street corner. I asked the driver, "Is that what I think?" and he replied "Yep". That part of town didn't seem especially "seedy".


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## jehb2 (Nov 19, 2018)

mpumilia said:


> I don't mean to put down Austin- I have never been there. But a coworker of mine visited there last summer for her sister's wedding and she hated it. She said there were tons of homeless people/drug addicts in the streets.



Have you seen the homelessness in Honolulu and Waikiki.  There are sections where the homeless have set makeshift shelters that stretch for city blocks.  I don't believe there is a major city in the US that doesn't have homelessness.


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## Ralph Sir Edward (Nov 19, 2018)

TravelTime said:


> We own a beautiful 5500 sf Mediterranean style custom home with pool on 1.5 acres with a 10 acre private preserve behind us in a 1000 acre golf country club on the California side below the snow belt. You can’t find this for what we paid in Incline Village or anywhere else in California. We bought it during the downturn well below construction cost. It has been increasing $100K per year since we purchased.
> 
> I am tired of paying for 2 homes and my DH has refused to move. So I am moving without him and hoping he will follow. I said no to Austin. I already have what I want. Then we can cash out on Silicon Valley.



An equivalent house in the "mansion zone" that parallels my house in DFW (I have a modest tract house), would run 1 to 1.6 million. However, I expect these are closer to things like hospitals, restaurants, and shopping, that your location. (Note, there are <lots> of mansion zones in DFW, I only priced the one nearby. Here's a 1.6 million listing - https://www.zillow.com/homes/for_sa...5,-96.578751,32.976196,-96.763287_rect/12_zm/


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## Panina (Nov 19, 2018)

mpumilia said:


> All I can say is moving somewhere is not the same as vacationing somewhere. You can like vacationing in a place but still not want to live there.
> 
> "Wherever you go, there you are."
> 
> People are always searching, but the grass isn't always greener elsewhere. The greenest grass could be right under where your feet are presently and you might not realize it.


So true. I don’t expect for it to be greener just more convenient knowing I will be giving up other things to have my overall living easier. For me wanting to move is knowing eventually taking care of my house will be too much and my needs will be different.  For me I would want a nice amenity filled 55+ community I can afford so I am with others in my age category where outside maintenance is taken care of.   I feel it’s best to make a move while I can, not when I have to.  Convincing my other half will take time.


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## Talent312 (Nov 19, 2018)

mpumilia said:


> People are always searching, but the grass isn't always greener elsewhere. The greenest grass could be right under where your feet are presently and you might not realize it.


_... which reminds me of this quote:_

"The grass is always greener over the septic tank."
-- Erma Bombeck (1995)

.


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## TravelTime (Nov 19, 2018)

jehb2 said:


> Exactly!  Yes. Thank you.  You live in Silicon Valley!  Those of us outside Silicon Valley know that Silicon Valley is a really expensive housing market.  And yes, comparable houses are indeed much cheaper in Austin than in Silicon Valley.  No question.
> 
> And I sent you a pm of a listing.  The first one that popped up.



I was comparing Austin to where I have my second home in the outskirts of the Greater Sacramento region in the Sierra Foothills in between Sacramento and North Tahoe. My second home and the nature and scenery is better and cheaper there although my neighborhood might be more upscale and my town is more quaint in the Silicon Valley. However, the cost of living in the Silicon Valley and California in general is out of control. I still think Austin is super expensive even from my vantage point coming from Silicon Valley. I will explore a broader range of neighborhoods in the greater Austin region and see if I change my mind.


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## VacationForever (Nov 19, 2018)

mpumilia said:


> I don't mean to put down Austin- I have never been there. But a coworker of mine visited there last summer for her sister's wedding and she hated it. She said there were tons of homeless people/drug addicts in the streets. She felt it was dirty. The outskirts of the city she said were ok. But she said no way would she ever live there- both she and her husband were disappointed because they thought they would love it.


Drug and homeless problems are now in most big cities throughout the US.  We are glad that we don't see the problem around where we live.


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## CalGalTraveler (Nov 19, 2018)

IMO Austin seems to have similar weather and rolling hills with oak flora as Northern California. The blue bells in the spring can't be beat. We have family in California, so Austin is too far away. Nevada is a better option for us.

@TravelTime it sounds like a plan since you already own the home and like it. You can assess what you want to do next after you fully retire. We have a vacation home that we would need to sell and buy in an area where we would want to potentially live. We couldn't live in the vacation home for 2 reasons: 1) it is too small and not made for permanent living e.g. little storage; 2) It is in the mountains. Although my DH wouldn't mind, I want to live in a warmer climate without snow.

FWIW...Sacramento can offer savings, however anyone on the peninsula or Marin could move just across the bay to the Tri-valley or Contra Costa and live in equivalent or better homes without leaving the Bay Area and still be ahead (prices are around $445 - $500 per sq foot vs. $800 - $1000).  If you don't need to commute during rush hour, this is an option. Similar to Sacramento, income taxes are the same (and they suck). You might even be able to take a low property tax basis with you and not be subject to higher property taxes based on the new home purchase price - certain Calif counties allow for this.


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## stmartinfan (Nov 19, 2018)

We live in a cold, high tax state which may not appeal to everyone.  But there are factors that more than make up for it, at least for me...

No hurricanes or forest fires (we can easily keep warm during a blizzard and there's no major damage.)

For the most part, our school systems and governmental agencies function well.  (We don't worry that our vote will be lost in a mess of corruption, faulty equipment or ineptitude and generally lead the nation in percent of citizens who vote.  Our work force is well educated, which has helped with the number of start up companies that have succeeded here despite the taxes.)

We have a strong network of non profits that step in to try to help those that maybe forgotten otherwise and people support them well with either time or funds.  

I'm sure those factors don't matter to many, but they contribute to quality of life for me.


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## bbodb1 (Nov 19, 2018)

CalGalTraveler said:


> IMO Austin seems to have similar weather and rolling hills with oak flora as Northern California. ....



Not just no, but NO - on the weather part. 
While not invited there, humidty as a device of torture was perfected on the Gulf Coast and manages to pervade the area starting from Texas, over to Florida and heads significantly inland in the late spring/summer/and early fall. Northern California is a paradise *weather wise* compared to Texas.


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## CalGalTraveler (Nov 19, 2018)

bbodb1 said:


> Not just no, but NO - on the weather part.
> While not invited there, humidty as a device of torture was perfected on the Gulf Coast and manages to pervade the area starting from Texas, over to Florida and heads significantly inland in the late spring/summer/and early fall. Northern California is a paradise *weather wise* compared to Texas.



Although my son lived there for 9 months and I visited Austin frequently, it was during the fall/winter and spring. I will take your word for it. I cannot tolerate humidity so Austin is off my list.

BTW...no place is perfect. Calif has earthquakes, fires. Sacramento has depressing tule fog in the winter, and high heat in the summer. Unlike the Tri-valley (Pleasanton, Livermore, Dublin, incl. San Ramon, Danville, Alamo) and Lamorinda/Walnut Creek which benefits from being on the edge of San Fran summer fog to cool at night, Sacramento does not cool off at night so you better have solar to run all those air conditioners.


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## bbodb1 (Nov 19, 2018)

stmartinfan said:


> We live in a cold, high tax state which may not appeal to everyone.  But there are factors that more than make up for it, at least for me...
> 
> No hurricanes or forest fires (we can easily keep warm during a blizzard and there's no major damage.)
> 
> ...



As a former resident of the North Star state, I agree with a lot of this BUT the housing bubble burst that started in the Minneapolis metro area in the mid 90's wrecked a LOT of households as good paying jobs were getting harder to find and keep one's existing standard of living.  Taxes were high (and I assume they still are) but one tended to see tangible results with their tax dollars.  Planned neighborhoods - with sidewalks, lots of cut de sacs, neighborhood parks, wetlands, etc - were common in the areas I was familiar with.  You don't see that in the south at all - in general, the level of municipal planning in the North tends to be more efficient and organized than in the South.  

I miss Minnesota, especially the winters, but the economic conditions there were difficult if one lost a job.  If you're retiring to Minnesota, that is not such a large issue.


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## TravelTime (Nov 19, 2018)

VacationForever said:


> Drug and homeless problems are now in most big cities throughout the US.  We are glad that we don't see the problem around where we live.



Drugs and homelessness are a huge problem in San Francisco, Sacramento and San Jose. My DH said he sees many homeless people living under the bridges and highways in our town too.


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## TravelTime (Nov 19, 2018)

CalGalTraveler said:


> IMO Austin seems to have similar weather and rolling hills with oak flora as Northern California. The blue bells in the spring can't be beat. We have family in California, so Austin is too far away. Nevada is a better option for us.
> 
> @TravelTime it sounds like a plan since you already own the home and like it. You can assess what you want to do next after you fully retire. We have a vacation home that we would need to sell and buy in an area where we would want to potentially live. We couldn't live in the vacation home for 2 reasons: 1) it is too small and not made for permanent living e.g. little storage; 2) It is in the mountains. Although my DH wouldn't mind, I want to live in a warmer climate without snow.
> 
> FWIW...Sacramento can offer savings, however anyone on the peninsula or Marin could move just across the bay to the Tri-valley or Contra Costa and live in equivalent or better homes without leaving the Bay Area and still be ahead (prices are around $445 - $500 per sq foot vs. $800 - $1000).  If you don't need to commute during rush hour, this is an option. Similar to Sacramento, income taxes are the same (and they suck). You might even be able to take a low property tax basis with you and not be subject to higher property taxes based on the new home purchase price - certain Calif counties allow for this.



Yes and no. My DH can’t commute from our second home. He needs to talk to his company and see if he can get a different job. Otherwise he might be able to work in their office in Austin. His problem is he works on confidential projects and needs to be in a secure location on campus. A huge advantage to selling our primary home first and moving to our second home for at least 5 years is the $500K gain that is not taxable. We lose that on the second home if we sell it first. I really want to sell one home because I am tired of paying for two homes that we only use half the time. I love the second home and I would be happy there for 5-10 more years and I can telecommunte but we do not think it will work for DH. He will talk to his boss but there is a chance he could lose his job.


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## CalGalTraveler (Nov 19, 2018)

TravelTime said:


> Yes and no. My DH can’t commute from our second home. He needs to talk to his company and see if he can get a different job. Otherwise he might be able to work in their office in Austin. His problem is he works on confidential projects and needs to be in a secure location on campus. A huge advantage to selling our primary home first and moving to our second home for at least 5 years is the $500K gain that is not taxable. We lose that on the second home if we sell it first. I really want to sell one home because I am tired of paying for two homes that we only use half the time. I love the second home and I would be happy there for 5-10 more years and I can telecommunte but we do not think it will work for DH. He will talk to his boss but there is a chance he could lose his job.



Although you may not like it, can you rent out your Sacto home for a few years to offset the costs? Does it have AirBnB potential? My DH hates that we started renting out our vacation home but rentals pay the bills, and now we can write off all of the maintenance and 100% of the SALT taxes with the new tax law.  We also are building a small reserve to update the kitchen and floors.

Renting in the Silicon Valley may be a lot more expensive than continuing to own your existing home.


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## CalGalTraveler (Nov 19, 2018)

Anne&Jim said:


> I totally know what you mean!  Last year we looked at some new construction and my first thought was that I couldn’t bear to see the wear and tear put on it by renters.  That’s when I came up with a plan to buy something existing that could be remodeled when it’s time to move in.
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



I have also heard of people buying new construction and instead of adding the builder upgrades (which are overpriced with huge margins), taking the standard finishes in the home to avoid the extra cost, renting it out for a few years, and then remodeling with the upgrades and finishes you want before you move in.  With rising interest rates you can bank the money you would spend on builder upgrades and grow with interest instead of spending up front.  Then, you have more money to spend on a clean, remodeled home for you to live and will spend less on the upgrades than you would with a builder because you can shop it.


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## Steve Fatula (Nov 19, 2018)

bbodb1 said:


> Not just no, but NO - on the weather part.
> While not invited there, humidty as a device of torture was perfected on the Gulf Coast and manages to pervade the area starting from Texas, over to Florida and heads significantly inland in the late spring/summer/and early fall. Northern California is a paradise *weather wise* compared to Texas.



To each his own, the hotter and more humid the better to me, and I also like seasons. But that's why we have 50 states and each of them have people! By all means, one should live where they think is best. I doubt too many (if any) would pick my state, but that's great to me, I wouldn't pick yours either, I don't enjoy N California weather. 

It's just a matter of what you like, where you like, and down on the list, other things like taxes, cost of living, etc. It all has to be balanced. I can't stand desert climates (to live in, to visit, sure as I do each February). Others may love or even be healthier there. It all just depends. 

All the advice here is good. The problem is, to pick the perfect place can take forever. As I had mentioned, I spent a year picking a place in one urban area, Dallas. An entire year, of scouting the area each weekend, driving neighborhoods, suburbs, etc. But that was possible as we were renting in Dallas area at the time. I cannot imagine taking a search nationwide (at least to the level of detail I took, which was likely excessive but that's me!). Fortunately, I had travelled to most states (and lived part time in quite a few) and already had a very short list. I like the center, and the people more importantly. For me, liking the people is #1 on my list. While working, Texas is a great state to live. (For those who think I live in Texas, I do not). They have the largest population growth (people not percent) for a reason, and it likely is somewhat job related. I have gotten jobs for half a dozen relatives who could not find jobs in other states, they are new residents. Of course, depends on your skill set too like any state. A programmer from Ohio who had searched daily for over 2 years got 10 job offers within a few days in Dallas, he was shocked (think bidding war...). I am sure that is true of some other states as well. Higher property tax is more than offset in other areas, wages are pretty good too. But when retired, I moved North from Texas since I didn't want to pay property tax and I love the state I live in. That and my property tax cannot ever rise here. 

We all have different stories, there is no right answer. There is merely a right answer for each of us. I find something nice in every state honestly. But considerations when working are much different than considerations when retired. I wish anyone on such a journey the best as it's a very hard decision as there are so many factors as has been pointed out by all. I am sure most of us would say our state is best. But we all have different criteria.


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## geist1223 (Nov 19, 2018)

Earlier in this thread people mentioned Oklahoma. My oldest son lived for 3 years while in the Air Force, couple of years finishing college (he is a Sooner), and a couple years working before he and his SO managed to move to Seattle. Every email, telephone call, letter started with: "Have I told you how much Oklahoma sucks." He lived in the Oklahoma City. He said they had 2 Seasons - hot or cold and icy. I lived in Oklahoma for about 6 Months in the late 70's while attending US Army Field Artillery School. I remember the almost total absence of trees and what they called a Mountain was a hill in Oregon.


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## Egret1986 (Nov 19, 2018)

You said a mouthful, Steve.


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## bbodb1 (Nov 19, 2018)

Steve Fatula said:


> To each his own, the hotter and more humid the better to me, and I also like seasons. But that's why we have 50 states and each of them have people! By all means, one should live where they think is best. I doubt too many (if any) would pick my state, but that's great to me, I wouldn't pick yours either, I don't enjoy N California weather.
> 
> It's just a matter of what you like, where you like, and down on the list, other things like taxes, cost of living, etc. It all has to be balanced. I can't stand desert climates (to live in, to visit, sure as I do each February). Others may love or even be healthier there. It all just depends.
> 
> ...



Very well stated indeed, Steve!


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## Glynda (Nov 19, 2018)

Homelessness is a problem in most larger cities. We have a good many here. The city passed a regulation that they can not stand at intersections to beg. They moved to our major shopping street and sat on our already narrow sidewalks asking for money. So the city passed another regulation on where they can sit. They can hold signs but cannot ask for money. They still do. I was so surprised this summer while in London and Dublin to see so many homeless. Just the year before in London, there were not nearly as many.


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## Steve Fatula (Nov 19, 2018)

geist1223 said:


> Earlier in this thread people mentioned Oklahoma. My oldest son lived for 3 years while in the Air Force, couple of years finishing college (he is a Sooner), and a couple years working before he and his SO managed to move to Seattle. Every email, telephone call, letter started with: "Have I told you how much Oklahoma sucks." He lived in the Oklahoma City. He said they had 2 Seasons - hot or cold and icy. I lived in Oklahoma for about 6 Months in the late 70's while attending US Army Field Artillery School. I remember the almost total absence of trees and what they called a Mountain was a hill in Oregon.



Uh, that's one part of the state. There is nothing but trees in the eastern half. Including a national forest. But to each his own! I would not live in the Western part of the state either. Or, for you Colorado lovers, the eastern part of that state (the flatlands). I remember the first time I moved here, and my Dad flew in from Ohio, and, the first thing out of his mouth was, hey, there's trees here. Makes me laugh still. I wouldn't live anywhere else, but, I am obviously a minority on that. Though, 20 of the 95 lots here are Californians. The worst part of OKC is not heat or cold, it's the tornadoes out there (and softball size hail at times). You have all seen them on the news many times.

For those who might be shocked:

https://www.nationalforests.org/our-forests/find-a-forest/ouachita-national-forest

Speaking of Colorado, it would be equivalent of visiting from Kansas, seeing the border sign where it says Welcome to Colorado, Land of (something like) mountains and color, or fun, or whatever it says. If you just stayed on the eastern side, you would be like I was first time and say, WHAT mountains and what color, it's all brown!

Absolutely there are no Oregon mountains. The same could be said of most states, Florida, Ohio, Missouri, you name it. DW hates mountains. I am not found of the cold that comes with them. Except for the Big Bend in the S end of Texas, I recall being on top of those mountains (close to 8,000') and it was still 100 degrees.

Note, I was not picking on any state. I was merely trying to point out that people like different things. Definitely do not live where you do not like or enjoy, if you have a choice. I actually thought I would get more criticism for my post. People take their state personally in some cases!


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## bbodb1 (Nov 19, 2018)

Steve Fatula said:


> ... I actually thought I would get more criticism for my post. People take their state personally in some cases!



I've enjoyed people presenting their case for various places in this thread and elsewhere on TUG.  Not only has that process given me new vacation destinations to consider, but also new possibilities for our next move. There is still so much of this country I want to see....


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## bluehende (Nov 19, 2018)

All places have their pluses and minuses.  It depends on what is important to you.  That is why their are people virtually everywhere.  The few places that are very sparsely populated are that way for an obvious reason....I'm looking at you Antartica


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## bbodb1 (Nov 19, 2018)

bluehende said:


> All places have their pluses and minuses.  It depends on what is important to you.  That is why their are people virtually everywhere.  The few places that are very sparsely populated are that way for an obvious reason....I'm looking at you Antartica



Hey! NO POLLEN HERE!
And very dry!


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## bluehende (Nov 19, 2018)

bbodb1 said:


> Hey! NO POLLEN HERE!
> And very dry!
> 
> View attachment 9129



I am allergic to penguins.


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## Steve Fatula (Nov 19, 2018)

bbodb1 said:


> Hey! NO POLLEN HERE!
> And very dry!
> 
> View attachment 9129



I am sure it is dry, but it's also 17 degrees, likely a warm day.  For those of you North Dakotans, Minnesotans, etc, a hot winter day. We still like seasons, probably too cold (and hot) here for some. We've been here almost 6 years, coldest night we have seen is 12. Actually, much worse (at times) is Mount Washington here in the good ol USA. You would not want to be there on a windy day.... But fun to visit in non winter.

I agree that it is great hearing about other states. Still a few I have not been to and need to get there.


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## TravelTime (Nov 19, 2018)

I would like to hear from our international friends and the pros and cons of their cities.


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## TravelTime (Nov 19, 2018)

PS I am fine with bashing my towns and states. I move so often that by the time you finish bashing me, I will be somewhere new. LOL


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## bluehende (Nov 19, 2018)

TravelTime said:


> PS I am fine with bashing my towns and states. I move so often that by the time you finish bashing me, I will be somewhere new. LOL



And I have been in this house for 40 yrs and live 2 miles from where I spent my first 22.


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## TravelTime (Nov 19, 2018)

bluehende said:


> And I have been in this house for 40 yrs and live 2 miles from where I spent my first 22.



Wow you are stable!


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## WinniWoman (Nov 19, 2018)

DrQ said:


> I take it she hasn't been to San Francisco, Chicago, New York ...  I worked in downtown Dallas and saw the homeless panhandling.
> 
> Yes there are rough parts of Austin, what city does not have them?
> 
> Funny story, my wife and I went to a restaurant in near downtown San Antonio. This was long before consumer GPS and smart phones. I hired a car to drive us to the restaurant and on the way I saw a woman on the street corner. I asked the driver, "Is that what I think?" and he replied "Yep". That part of town didn't seem especially "seedy".




She lives in NY and has been to the city a zillion times.


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## DrQ (Nov 19, 2018)

mpumilia said:


> She lives in NY and has been to the city a zillion times.


Then I wonder who gave her the impression Austin was a clean "Leave to Beaver" city. It's unofficial motto is "Keep Austin Weird".  

Maybe they were thinking of Austin MN ... Spam, spam, spam , spam ...


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## bluehende (Nov 19, 2018)

TravelTime said:


> Wow you are stable!



I am so boring I am scary

edited to add

same job for 31 yrs and only one after graduation
same wife for 39 yrs.
I did change banks once.


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## PcflEZFlng (Nov 19, 2018)

It's been great fun reading everyone's thoughts, experiences, and comparisons! Especially for those places I've only visited and wondered what it would be like to live there. I've lived in a number of very different places, including some mentioned above (Minneapolis, Denver, SF Bay Area, Los Angeles, Sacramento). Got fond memories of each of them.

I've been in the San Diego area now for almost 30 years and still love it here. Yes, it's expensive, though someone coming from the SF Peninsula/Silicon Valley would find it pretty reasonable (home prices are still half of what they are there - of course, salaries are lower, too). Chances are, DW and I will stay here in retirement, but we also love the desert, and occasionally ponder joining many others and eventually moving to a 55+ community in or around Phoenix.


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## bluehende (Nov 19, 2018)

I guess I will plug our local retirement area.  Coastal Delaware

Very little snow and a nice fall.  
A lot of retirees especially air force due to dover air force base
With above a lot of services and activities geared for the retired
We refer it as slower delaware as opposed to lower delaware  due to the laid back atmosphere
taxes very low.  No sales tax very low real estate in that county and an exclusion for pension income


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## jehb2 (Nov 19, 2018)

Any military brats out there?


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## Steve Fatula (Nov 19, 2018)

bluehende said:


> I guess I will plug our local retirement area.  Coastal Delaware
> 
> Very little snow and a nice fall.
> A lot of retirees especially air force due to dover air force base
> ...



Ah, I've been to Ocean View last summer, anywhere near there? I liked the area. Since it's apparently a resort town, few people in winter though.


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## bluehende (Nov 20, 2018)

Steve Fatula said:


> Ah, I've been to Ocean View last summer, anywhere near there? I liked the area. Since it's apparently a resort town, few people in winter though.



We owned a house the next town back.  The closer to the beach you are the less people are year round.  When we bought our neighborhood was mostly summer homes.  By the time we sold 2 yrs ago we were the last one.  I was amazed how crowded it was getting even in winter.  The Bethany Beach/Ocean View is better than the Rehoboth/Lewes area as it is less crowded.  At this point only the very beach front restaurants close up for winter.  If you do not need beach front or block.  Real estate is not that bad.  What costs 2 million can be had for 300k a few miles back.  The retirement area is now stretching almost 10 miles from the actual coast.

PS  anybody going give me a holler and I will let you know where to eat and especially where to go for happy hours.


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## DrQ (Nov 20, 2018)

jehb2 said:


> Any military brats out there?


Yep


geist1223 said:


> Earlier in this thread people mentioned Oklahoma. ... I lived in Oklahoma for about 6 Months in the late 70's while attending US Army Field Artillery School. I remember the almost total absence of trees and what they called a Mountain was a hill in Oregon.


I recognized the description of Mount Scott outside of Fort Sill.

Ich wurde in Deutschland geboren, als mein Vater Atomic Annie durch die Landschaft schleppte.


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## bbodb1 (Nov 20, 2018)

DrQ said:


> Then I wonder who gave her the impression Austin was a clean "Leave to Beaver" city. It's unofficial motto is "Keep Austin Weird".
> 
> Maybe they were thinking of Austin MN ... Spam, spam, spam , spam ...



*Bloody vikings!*


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## geist1223 (Nov 20, 2018)

Yes to Military Brat.


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