# HRC conversion to HPP



## bobby111 (Nov 30, 2019)

We have been to 3 HPP presentations in the past 18 months. We did convert to HPP, 500 points for 19.50 per point.  Can roll points for up to 4 years and then convert to WOH or II - we have been HRP members for 18 years and I have noticed a difference in past year with reservations.  So, sadly I am afraid that Marriott is diluting the HRC.  We Have 10 days to rescind, but not sure we will have chance to do this in future for this type of $$.  We purchased a Beach House resale week for $10,000 18 years ago, it was a Platinum week.  They showed us a live version of Beyond and it appears to have benefits.  The Marriott deal is finalized and I am afraid that the HRC folks (ie me) are going to get screwed.  I can see a difference in the past few months.  Anybody else see a,difference?


----------



## echino (Nov 30, 2019)

Did you see that 880 HPP points eBay auction that sold for $30, with free closing?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Hyatt-Portfolio-Points-880-Annual-points-/312846034198

This should tell you something about HPP value. Rescind.


----------



## travelhacker (Nov 30, 2019)

Personally, I would rescind. Some of the benefits of HPP sound good on paper, but @alameda94501 did a fantastic job of debunking a lot of those benefits. I would read through some of Alameda's posts. Alameda studied the system very, very thoroughly and came to the conclusion that it wouldn't be worth it.

There is essentially zero resale market for HPP (see @echino post above)

I know you like the idea of banking points (I do as well), but there are fees for that and $10,000 seems like a hefty price to pay for that. 

When you say you see a difference in the past few months, in what ways have you seen a difference? Personally, I've booked some great stays in the past few months, and seen many, many good options in the recent past that I wasn't able to take advantage of -- there is always way more availability for stays that I would enjoy than points available to me.

I know there is a lot of fear and uncertainty with Marriott buying ILG and I can certainly understand a lot of those concerns (i.e. the first year of maintenance fee increases was unprecedented). However, I think we'll know a lot more in the next year or so about any program changes, and would wait to make any big purchases until then. The nice thing about purchasing resale Hyatt is that you own a deeded interest, so if you get a week that has value (i.e. holiday week in a high demand area) it _should _retain some value despite any negative changes that Marriott could make.


----------



## dahntahn (Nov 30, 2019)

We too bought the minimum points to get into HPP to give us the option to convert any of our 4 legacy weeks or use them as always.  One factor that influenced us was the simplicity of using points, knowing that we are in our 70s and our kids are not fans of the complexity of using the legacy system.  [I know it can be learned and we have used it for many years, but they just roll their eyes when I try to explain it.]  When we die or are too infirm to continue, they are interested in continuing use of the timeshares.  Another is that Coconut Plantation is our favorite resort and they have and are adding significant additional capacity for HPP owners.  There are other advantages, especially banking, waitlist requests 18 months out, and getting all points at one time.  And we can now utilize both systems.  If you feel the advantages are worth it, then don't rescind.
Nevertheless, the best approach [imho] to timeshare ownership continues to be buying on the secondary market a deeded ownership at a resort that you would use most years that is within driving distance of home.  I learned that [too late] on TUG and it remains good advice.


----------



## bdh (Nov 30, 2019)

I


echino said:


> Did you see that 880 HPP points eBay auction that sold for $30, with free closing?
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Hyatt-Portfolio-Points-880-Annual-points-/312846034198
> 
> This should tell you something about HPP value. Rescind.


 
Watched the eBay auction for HPP points - know the person that bid the $29.50 and lost. Knowing that the deal wouldn't go through, (Hyatt will stop it) the bid was just to see how it would unfold.


----------



## bdh (Nov 30, 2019)

travelhacker said:


> Personally, I would rescind. Some of the benefits of HPP sound good on paper, but @alameda94501 did a fantastic job of debunking a lot of those benefits. I would read through some of Alameda's posts. Alameda studied the system very, very thoroughly and came to the conclusion that it wouldn't be worth it.
> 
> There is essentially zero resale market for HPP (see @echino post above)
> 
> ...



While dahntahn provided their basis for buying HPP that works for them, I agree with enchino and travelhacker recommendation to rescind.  I know several HRC legacy owners that bought into HPP based on the sales staff comments that HPP provides access to all HRC properties - they are now disillusioned with HPP as it did not provide them the access / reservation that was promoted at the HPP presentation.  The biggest downside of HPP from my perspective is that you own nothing and are guaranteed nothing.  Until HPP has a resort location different than the current HRC resorts, there is absolutely zero reason for me to even think about HPP.


----------



## bobby111 (Nov 30, 2019)

I think we will be rescinding, the Beyond program does not go live until January. So I am not sure we are comfortable until it is actually live, we will have more chances to covert.  It is tempting - but still uncertain!


----------



## Sapper (Dec 1, 2019)

bdh said:


> I Watched the eBay auction for HPP points - know the person that bid the $29.50 and lost. Knowing that the deal wouldn't go through, (Hyatt will stop it) the bid was just to see how it would unfold.



Stop it how?  ROFR?  I’m not sure Hyatt would do that right now. HPP has been a disaster for them, and I imagine they want people paying the maintenance fees on it so they don’t have to.


----------



## Sapper (Dec 1, 2019)

bobby111 said:


> I think we will be rescinding, the Beyond program does not go live until January. So I am not sure we are comfortable until it is actually live, we will have more chances to covert.  It is tempting - but still uncertain!



January now?  They keep pushing it back. When I first heard about “Marriott Beyond” (have they already dropped the “Marriott” in the name?), the sales weasels were saying it would be live in September. 

Please see: https://tugbbs.com/forums/index.php?threads/marriott-beyond.293027/


----------



## bobby111 (Dec 1, 2019)

Sapper said:


> January now?  They keep pushing it back. When I first heard about “Marriott Beyond” (have they already dropped the “Marriott” in the name?), the sales weasels were saying it would be live in September.
> 
> Please see: https://tugbbs.com/forums/index.php?threads/marriott-beyond.293027/



Yup, he said January - so rescinding Monday.  Tempting but to many unknowns!


----------



## bdh (Dec 1, 2019)

Sapper said:


> Stop it how?  ROFR?  I’m not sure Hyatt would do that right now. HPP has been a disaster for them, and I imagine they want people paying the maintenance fees on it so they don’t have to.



Per the HPP program, Hyatt is the only option for an HPP owner to sell their points to.  Not sure if that process is called "ROFR" or "Hostage".  

HPP has not been a tremendous success with the vast majority of HRC owners - however some HRC owners have bought into the program, so HPP is gaining some traction.  Each HRC owner that buys the previous minimum 660 points (now 500 points) will wind up depositing their deeded week into HPP on an annual basis.  ie: Your vacation options are very limited with 660 points (or 500) - to effectively use the HPP program, more points are needed - so deeded HRC weeks will be deposited into HPP on an annual basis.

From late 2018 to late 2019, Hyatt (Hyatt/Vistana/ILG/Marriott - take your pick on what you want to call them) was not exercising ROFR on resales - expect that was due to the Marriott purchase of ILG/Hyatt. There have been a lot of changes within Hyatt/Vistana/ILG/Marriott over the past year with the integration of the various entities.  As that integration has progressed, Hyatt is now exercising ROFR on selected HRC deeded weeks the past 2 months. 

If Hyatt/ILG had not been purchased by Marriott, there was a chance that HPP may have failed - but with Hyatt now owned by Marriott, combine Marriott's success in selling points with their deep pockets, HPP is here to stay.


----------



## Sapper (Dec 1, 2019)

bdh said:


> Per the HPP program, Hyatt is the only option for an HPP owner to sell their points to.  Not sure if that process is called "ROFR" or "Hostage".
> 
> HPP has not been a tremendous success with the vast majority of HRC owners - however some HRC owners have bought into the program, so HPP is gaining some traction.  Each HRC owner that buys the previous minimum 660 points (now 500 points) will wind up depositing their deeded week into HPP on an annual basis.  ie: Your vacation options are very limited with 660 points (or 500) - to effectively use the HPP program, more points are needed - so deeded HRC weeks will be deposited into HPP on an annual basis.
> 
> ...



I’m not sure Hyatt is exercising the “hostage” restriction. By the way, that is a great name for that clause. 

You make a good point re HRC owners depositing their deeds into HPP due to the number of points they get in HPP necessitating they make the deed deposit. 

I don’t know the frequency of Hyatt exercising ROFR. There has been one person I know of who has said they exercised, but was it truly ROFR -or- was it the seller just backing out of the deal and using ROFR as the excuse. I had this happen on an HGVC Valdoro (which has never exercised ROFR), and verified with HGVC that they did not exercise ROFR. It would be nice if ROFR.net had a space for folks to enter information for Hyatt.  

I agree, HPP is not going anywhere now. I think that MVC/ILG/Hyatt have an opportunity to make it an interesting system, however, they will have to make substantial revisions to the benefit of owners for the system to truly succeed.


----------



## travelhacker (Dec 1, 2019)

Sapper said:


> I’m not sure Hyatt is exercising the “hostage” restriction. By the way, that is a great name for that clause.
> 
> You make a good point re HRC owners depositing their deeds into HPP due to the number of points they get in HPP necessitating they make the deed deposit.
> 
> ...



Agreed. There is certainly an opportunity to make it an interesting system. If there was some type of fair conversion into the Marriott points program, that could be pretty compelling. I think several Hyatt locations would be very interesting for Marriott to offer to their owners and vice versa.

My friend (completely new to timeshares) had RoFR exercised on him at Windward Pointe (Week 4 -- really good price), he forwarded me a PDF that Hyatt sent to LT Transfers...this was back in early October.


----------



## GTLINZ (Dec 2, 2019)

bobby111 said:


> I think we will be rescinding, the Beyond program does not go live until January. So I am not sure we are comfortable until it is actually live, we will have more chances to covert.  It is tempting - but still uncertain!



Run, Forest, Run !!!


----------



## PerryKing (Dec 3, 2019)

Did you study the FEE schedule to do anything with your HPP points when actually using them and especially when you want to exchange them for World of Hyatt and many of the options your supposed to get. Many fees attached to every move that you make.  The fee schedule is what caused me to back off on my second presentation after which I was wavering and almost said why not?  since I have so many points that I can not use anyway.  But one look at the fee schedule and I said no way.


----------



## alameda94501 (Dec 7, 2019)

bobby111 said:


> We have been to 3 HPP presentations in the past 18 months. We did convert to HPP, 500 points for 19.50 per point.  Can roll points for up to 4 years and then convert to WOH or II - we have been HRP members for 18 years and I have noticed a difference in past year with reservations.  So, sadly I am afraid that Marriott is diluting the HRC.  We Have 10 days to rescind, but not sure we will have chance to do this in future for this type of $$.  We purchased a Beach House resale week for $10,000 18 years ago, it was a Platinum week.  They showed us a live version of Beyond and it appears to have benefits.  The Marriott deal is finalized and I am afraid that the HRC folks (ie me) are going to get screwed.  I can see a difference in the past few months.  Anybody else see a,difference?



Hi @bobby111 . Sorry I am late to this conversation. Could I ask two questions:

1. Which resort were you at, when they offered selling 500 pts @ $19.50? 
2.  What did the live version of Beyond show?

I was at a presentation in the last month and they did not show any Beyond, so I'm curious. 

There's no question that the HPP sales staff have a lot of fear and doubt to sow, but there are only a few cases right now where HPP makes sense for people:

a.  If they don't mind paying a little more in fees (MF's are high on the HPP portion, $133 for annual conversion per unit week) to see a few more options at Windward Pointe and Highlands Inn (and a tiny more at Grand Aspen); OR

b.  If they want to exchange into Wild Oak Ranch and eventually Coconut Plantation.

With only *two main resorts (Wild Oak, Coconut Plantation) *in the HPP and limited availability for Windward Pointe, Highlands Inn, and Grand Aspen it doesn't seem to make much sense for most HRC members.  Having said that I believe the program is a success for Hyatt in getting rid of their dregs of HRC unit weeks by 'taxing' existing HRC members. 

And to be fair I'm still tempted because I'd like more Highlands Inn options with school children.  @dahntahn - when you look at your HPP options for Highlands Inn, do you see a lot of Portfolio inventory over the next year?

HRC inventory itself isn't affected much because Hyatt is only successful at converting existing HRC members (who had access anyway) and not bringing new HPP-only members to the fold.  I know it seems sometimes like there's a difference but I think that's more seasonal than anything.


----------



## bobby111 (Dec 8, 2019)

We were in Key West over Thanksgiving.  We own a platinum week at Beach House.  Live in South Florida and mainly do Key West or Bonita Beach.

We live in Florida, but also own a condo in Summit County Colorado (Breck, Keystone, Copper, Arapaho) so we have that to use when ever we desire.

We were tempted by the Beyond, cruises, and WOH conversions.

Our son is in College and may not be traveling with us much longer.  So our travel habits more then likely will be changing.

At some point we may covert, but still not certain.

He had a live version of Beyond - but of course, I cannot verify anything.

He sent me a photo and info - but I cannot see anything.  He said it launches in January.

I like to see exactly what I am buying- so we rescinded - it was a deal breaker for me.  At least for now...

For reference, this is our 3rd presentation 1st one was 480 points for around $7800 in Key West, then 680 points for  13,000 in Bonita Beach and then the 500 points at Key West.

Seems like it changes every time....


----------



## alameda94501 (Dec 8, 2019)

Thanks for all the information, my presentations have been at Highlands Inn and they also can't seem to answer all my questions. I have rescinded in the past because I would like to understand actually what I am getting.

I know Hyatt likes the high pressure approach but I think for me it would be more successful if I had someone in their headquarters in Florida to answer my specific questions in writing.


----------



## bobby111 (Dec 8, 2019)

Did they ever show you the Beyond website and then there is link to an additional travel site? 

They want you to covert your points so they can use your week.  At Beach House we would still actually hold the deed and the deeded week.  So unless we converted into the HPP every year, nothing changes.


----------



## alameda94501 (Dec 8, 2019)

No I have never seen anything about Beyond. If you can share the link in PM I would love to check it out.

Yes, they only have two resorts so depend on us annually converting to their Portfolio. I think it worked for 2019 but it's expensive enough that I think they may see folks drop off next year if there was no benefit.


----------



## bobby111 (Dec 8, 2019)

The Beyond link isn’t live, I will post what he sent me.  Supposed to go live in January.


----------



## bdh (Dec 8, 2019)

bobby111 said:


> They want you to covert your points so they can use your week.  At Beach House we would still actually hold the deed and the deeded week.  So unless we converted into the HPP every year, nothing changes.



Agree that unless you convert your deeded week to HPP every year, nothing changes with your HRC week use...  But unless you travel in off/mud season or partial weeks, what would you do with 600+/- HPP points?


----------



## bobby111 (Dec 8, 2019)

Well we might convert all of them to something in Beyond - but no clue how many points needed....until it’s live - if it actually ever goes live!


----------



## tmand (Dec 12, 2019)

With all of the obvious bad feelings by those from those who have fallen for the new Portfolio program as well as those who own weeks being upset how they are being treated, I see a possible class action law suit in the future.


----------



## Pathways (Dec 12, 2019)

tmand said:


> With all of the obvious bad feelings by those from those who have fallen for the new Portfolio program as well as those who own weeks being upset how they are being treated, I see a possible class action law suit in the future.



That should be an interesting filing.  "Judge, we have some folks who have 'bad feelings' and are not being treated well.  Give them cash."

Sure, Mr Attorney, let's give them each $10 in resort credits (which expires in 180 days).  And here is your %, $800k for your firm's hard work!


----------



## bradj (Dec 24, 2019)

In my opinion, I would never convert my "deeded" week to portfolio points. Deeded weeks do have some value. FYI I bought an annual week 20 Beach House on e bay (1400 points) 3 years ago for $10.00 (yeah, ten dollars) Hyatt didn't exercise FROR and more recently increased my point value to 2000 points. That'll probably never happen again. That was a lot of points for 10 bucks. I've successfully used those points for exchanges within the Hyatt program.


----------



## skimeup (Dec 30, 2019)

How did they increase your points to 2000?  Did you pay something?  Was this a lovely gesture on their part?


----------



## alameda94501 (Dec 30, 2019)

skimeup said:


> How did they increase your points to 2000?  Did you pay something?  Was this a lovely gesture on their part?



I wasn't involved in this, but from what was stated on TUG at the time, it was pretty much a lovely gesture.  Hyatt reserves the right to equalize points according to demand in their HRC and HPC systems, and they do this only by inflating point value (they would have a riot if they deflated point value so they would rather inflate all others if they needed to do that).  It definitely made things nice for folks like @bradj!


----------



## Sapper (Dec 31, 2019)

skimeup said:


> How did they increase your points to 2000?  Did you pay something?  Was this a lovely gesture on their part?



Hyatt increased the point value of specific weeks for all three Key West properties a few years ago. It was an unannounced one time change. The HPP has a lot of Key West Windward Pointe units, my guess is this was a semi self serving move on their part that happened to help some individual owners, my self included.


----------



## melroseman (Jan 1, 2020)

Actually, it was a


Sapper said:


> Hyatt increased the point value of specific weeks for all three Key West properties a few years ago. It was an unannounced one time change. The HPP has a lot of Key West Windward Pointe units, my guess is this was a semi self serving move on their part that happened to help some individual owners, my self included.


Actually, it was a two-time change.  We bought our Beach House as a bronze week, 1100 points.  First raised to 1400 points a few years later, then in the last increase to 1880 points.  Both pleasant surprises that made buying from the developer a little more palatable!!


----------



## Sapper (Jan 5, 2020)

melroseman said:


> Actually, it was a
> 
> Actually, it was a two-time change.  We bought our Beach House as a bronze week, 1100 points.  First raised to 1400 points a few years later, then in the last increase to 1880 points.  Both pleasant surprises that made buying from the developer a little more palatable!!



Thanks for the info.


----------

