# How is Wyndham not Screwing their Owners with new Offers?



## TSGuest2017 (Apr 23, 2017)

So I recently (in past 3 days) attended a Wyndham timeshare presentation with absolutely ZERO intention to buy. I was offered a great deal of perks to go which made it well worth the waste if 5 hours of my day and sitting and listening to someone think they are smarter than me.  BUT......I DID buy something from them and personally, If i already owned points I would be livid as an owner. Below is what I bought and why i would be livid.

2 years "Try before you buy" and enough points in my try before you buy membership to also be considered VIP. So I get all the benefits of a VIP OWNER and I didnt have to sign my life away on maintenance fees. ive done the math and im basically paying less than owners and getting all the perks.

Ive logged in to my profile online and the ONLY thing i can see different between the two programs is true owners have the ability to book online but I do not. i have to call someone to book it for me. but this is the thing. I would normally book from Ebay or Craigslist from the kind owners like yourselves that have rented to me in the past for an extremely good deal. So i would have had to go through that with an owner anyhow.

Am I missing something? Anyone willing to compare the points in the book I got and thats online to see if its the same as yours as an owner?  if its the same, and I get the same perks, 60+ days available upgrad units, 25-50% off points from non-VIP units, how is this not completely screwing current VIP owners?

I 100% intend to cancel my $3k investment in this tomorrow IF when i go to book tomorrow I dont get these benefits. but everything I was told and am reading suggests I do. And my right to cancel will be over in the next. couple of days.

I am usually pretty good at saving money and Ive read a TON on this message board and I dont see anyone talking about this scenario I just bought into.

So its left me wondering if you owners even know Wyndham is doing this and taking your customers away or if there is something I am missing.

Also, I am very well aware buying this has subjected me to likely getting hassled to "buy in". But I never will and Im pretty sure I could ride this out for several years based on my contract allowing me to purchase additional points at the purchase price. AND, Im pretty sure Wyndham has f*cked themselves over with that wording in my "rental" contract. Which I wont go into here. Thoughts?


----------



## chapjim (Apr 23, 2017)

None of us owners are virgins.


----------



## ronparise (Apr 23, 2017)

First of all, VIP units are not a thing. So I don't know what you mean by 25%-50% off non VIP units

You paid $3000. How many points do you have to use over the 2 years?

Yes I think most of us are aware of the Discovery program (at least that's what it used to be called


----------



## TSGuest2017 (Apr 23, 2017)

ronparise said:


> First of all, VIP units are not a thing. So I don't know what you mean by 25%-50% off non VIP units
> 
> You paid $3000. How many points do you have to use over the 2 years?
> 
> Yes I think most of us are aware of the Discovery program (at least that's what it used to be called



i get 25%-50% off the amount of points taken from my pool of points that is advertised in the book for a specific room. that's what i mean when i say "VIP" benefits.

I purchased enough to get that benefit. so more than 400k.


----------



## TSGuest2017 (Apr 23, 2017)

Im not writing this to upset anyone. Truly am not. But I certainly wont ever buy as an owner if this is how they protect their owners "interests" is all. And I am thinking I have to be missing something because I would be livid if I were an owner and this was occuring. That "renters" could reap the benefits of my commitment if they "rented" enough points is all


----------



## TSGuest2017 (Apr 23, 2017)

I also paid up front so I have zero timeframe to meet to achieve the benefits as well as had them extend the timeframe to December 2020 to use all the points


----------



## nicemann (Apr 23, 2017)

Think you are being too vague for anyone to offer help.  So you paid $3k...for over 400k in points?  So does that mean 401k in points?  Per year for the two years?  Or total for the two years?

Also why would the 25% - 50% be a rolling percent?  Did they put in writing that it is one or the other?  That the membership is VIP and would get gold of platinum benefits or are you assuming that because the amount of points? 

Don't think you will get anyone here mad.  Most of us buy resell points anyways.


----------



## paxsarah (Apr 23, 2017)

From things I've heard in the past about the discovery program (or whatever it's called today), it's really not a bad deal for the person who buys it (as opposed to buying retail points from Wyndham). Similar to or slightly more than MFs would be on comparable points, maybe? But it's temporary. So I don't see it as an impact on current owners, either, because it's just a tiny drop in the bucket of all owners and all reservations. Enjoy your trial program and don't buy points from Wyndham.


----------



## TSGuest2017 (Apr 23, 2017)

The only reason I see this as impacting current owners is because it is temporary for me (per say) until the end of 2020.  But if it trial is similar to the benefits of ownership if the points are compared apples to apples, and they are doing this ongoing, it takes the customers from owners that would have otherwise rented from owners. And on top of that, if I as a renter get the benefits of VIP membership as an owner, then i get dibs on a unit for less of my pojnts than a non-vip Owner. So for example, if we both want a Presidential at Bonnet Creek, I would get that dibs 60 days out where a non-vip would get it at what, 30?

And further, lets just say I really end up liking it. I highly doubt it will ever be enough to commit to the maintenance fees for life. But lets say I change my mind. For TWO years, any additional points I purchase towards my rental units gets applied toward the purchase of an actual ownership unit. Thus, I could achieve VIP status fairly easily for next to nothing. if I had planned to spend this money on vacations anyhow.

Example -
Buy 400k points today for 3k
Do that 4 more times and Im at $15k "purchase" directly to windham which at the end of 2020 that $15k by contract can be apllied to a purchae of a Windham VIP Ownership.

So I ride this out til then, apply the $15k, I never signed up for a "loan" or any comitment and I get a VIP membership for pretty darn cheap. Because resales are exempt from that from what I can tell.

Perhaps Im wrong, but Im willing to bet Im not.


----------



## Avislo (Apr 23, 2017)

Does not really affect owners much one way or the other if this is the Discovery program of old.  If I remember, you cannot book on line because the program does not have all of the availability that owners get and that is why you do not have on line booking rights at this point.  If you want comps on availability issues, posting what you want, when and where would be needed.


----------



## TSGuest2017 (Apr 23, 2017)

Avislo said:


> Does not really affect owners much one way or the other if this is the Discovery program of old.  If I remember, you cannot book on line because the program does not have all of the availability that owners get and that is why you do not have on line booking rights at this point.  If you want comps on availability issues, posting what you want, when and where would be needed.



right. goid point. i will look over dates tonight and post what I will ask for tomorrow AM when I call. If I dont get something that I know is verified available, Im dumping it


----------



## Avislo (Apr 23, 2017)

While you are in period that you can cancel, you might want to call your sales rep.  I  think you are operating under the premise that you can by more than one of these contracts and have them in force together.  You may be in for a surprise.


----------



## paxsarah (Apr 23, 2017)

I'm pretty sure they're not going to let you do the discovery program five times in a row. And even if they did, a $15k credit toward the purchase of VIP eligible points is not going to get you to VIP. I don't know what the going rate on retail points is, but I'm guessing $15k would get you maybe 126k points (total guess)? I'm sure someone who's been to a sales meeting more recently (or ever, since I've never attended) can tell you the current range of offers).

And I'm not sure what you're saying about VIP and presidential units here. I booked a presidential suite (not PR, just presidential) at 13 months for this upcoming Christmas, and I'm all resale. I know that PR units are primarily held for PR owners until a certain date, but I don't know if VIPs get an earlier crack at them before the rest of us. I do know that that isn't really a benefit that's ever concerned me, so if you plan to use it, have fun. You're not taking anything away from me.


----------



## ronparise (Apr 23, 2017)

TSGuest2017 said:


> i get 25%-50% off the amount of points taken from my pool of points that is advertised in the book for a specific room. that's what i mean when i say "VIP" benefits.
> 
> I purchased enough to get that benefit. so more than 400k.



400000 points over two years is the equivalent of 200 points per year and your mf, if you owned 200000 points, would be $1200 a year or about $2500 over the two years. If you really get a 25%-50% discount on all your points thats great, but I bet not



TSGuest2017 said:


> The only reason I see this as impacting current owners is because it is temporary for me (per say) until the end of 2020.  But if it trial is similar to the benefits of ownership if the points are compared apples to apples, and they are doing this ongoing, it takes the customers from owners that would have otherwise rented from owners. And on top of that, if I as a renter get the benefits of VIP membership as an owner, then i get dibs on a unit for less of my pojnts than a non-vip Owner. So for example, if we both want a Presidential at Bonnet Creek, I would get that dibs 60 days out where a non-vip would get it at what, 30?
> 
> And further, lets just say I really end up liking it. I highly doubt it will ever be enough to commit to the maintenance fees for life. But lets say I change my mind. For TWO years, any additional points I purchase towards my rental units gets applied toward the purchase of an actual ownership unit. Thus, I could achieve VIP status fairly easily for next to nothing. if I had planned to spend this money on vacations anyhow.
> 
> ...




$15000 dosent get you close to VIP.. a 700000 point account (gold)  is going to cost you something like $125000 thousand.  credit your $15000 and thats still a boatload of money

and the Discovery program dosent take anything from any owner.. Its no different than the new car I bought.  I think I got a good deal at $35000  If I find out later someone else got the same car for $30000. good for them.. but it didnt take anything away from me... I still have my car parked in the garage, and it still works well enough to take me where I want to go when I want to go there. I couldnt care less that someone else got the same thing for less

How are you going to feel if you get a great deal on a purchase 2 or 3 years from now, and spend only $100000 for your VIP account and then learn that I had a VIP account  that cost me less than  $30000

Make your deal, and good on you if its a good deal, but it dosent change anything about my deal and how I feel toward you or Wyndham

What you dont know is that timeshare sales people lwill ie and cheat to get you signed up. What most of us here agree on, is that if their lips are moving they are lying.    I dont know what they told you or what road they walked you down but Im willing to bet you werent told the whole story

enjoy and good luck


----------



## uscav8r (Apr 23, 2017)

TSGuest2017 said:


> right. goid point. i will look over dates tonight and post what I will ask for tomorrow AM when I call. If I dont get something that I know is verified available, Im dumping it



While availability for the general ownership can be limited for some resorts at some times if year, and it is always preferable to book early, the Discovery program has been reported to have some of its own exclusive inventory that you can book closer to check in than what would be expected for a normal owner. This is not taking anything away from existing owners as the inventory comes from Wyndham's outstanding (unsold) points and deeds. 

The discounts are not applied to all reservations, but only to those booked within a certain timeframe from check in. There are no guarantees of availability. 

As a former Discovery package owner, I would recomm MF this approach, since you have 2 years to book:

1) try out the short booking window availability in the first 3-9 months to see if you can get a discounted unit (you're probably Silver VIP which means you get discounts at 60 days and a potential upgrade if booked within 30 days). Be prepared for limited availability if you wait this long. 

2) to maximize availability begin looking for a vacation at the very opening of your booking window. Depending on when you want this vacation, you can begin looking now, but do not wait until you have only 9 months to go before your package expires. 

3) don't buy anything developer from Wyndham even if they give you credit for your Discovery purchase(s). It isn't worth it. 

FYI, I had a Discovery package that I used to get into Wyndham, but that was over 12 years ago and before I learned about the resale market and TUG. Now I will only buy resale. 





Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## TSGuest2017 (Apr 23, 2017)

Avislo said:


> While you are in period that you can cancel, you might want to call your sales rep.  I  think you are operating under the premise that you can by more than one of these contracts and have them in force together.  You may be in for a surprise.



My contract says I can "add" points to my current contract for the same purchase price I bought these for. It also says ANY purchases made by me between now and the end of 2020 that sum of total dollars spent on points CAN be applied towards an ownership purchase.

Also, FYI, I have in writing a locked rate to buy 500,000k points  if I opt for that in the future for $18,000. So the above two issues combined tend to make me think I can benefit from what they offered me and i personally think this screws the owners. Wyndham hasn't thought their "discovery" program through for cash buyers. they make thir money of financing these. I just worked a way around that I think. but I will know tomorrow.


----------



## TSGuest2017 (Apr 23, 2017)

ronparise said:


> 400000 points over two years is the equivalent of 200 points per year and your mf, if you owned 200000 points, would be $1200 a year or about $2500 over the two years. If you really get a 25%-50% discount on all your points thats great, but I bet not
> 
> 
> 
> ...




well, I have the proposal in writing and locked rates. 750k is $25k at the price I was offered, less than $5.50 maintenance fees and I can apply any purchases of additional points during my trial peirod to that. So I either got an incredible deal, or have a very good reason to get out of this (they lie ON paper).  which can certainly be the case. I would be surprised how if they dont honor this considering they just lost a $20M lawsuit for shit like this.

I will know tomorrow when I try booking a very expensive Point vacation for a 2 month from now window.

Also, I do get the discount on less points. thats on their discovery website contract and on their website. i will find the link and post it


----------



## Avislo (Apr 23, 2017)

TSGuest2017 said:


> My contract says I can "add" points to my current contract for the same purchase price I bought these for. It also says ANY purchases made by me between now and the end of 2020 that sum of total dollars spent on points CAN be applied towards an ownership purchase.
> 
> Also, FYI, I have in writing a locked rate to buy 500,000k points  if I opt for that in the future for $18,000. So the above two issues combined tend to make me think I can benefit from what they offered me and i personally think this screws the owners. Wyndham hasn't thought their "discovery" program through for cash buyers. they make thir money of financing these. I just worked a way around that I think. but I will know tomorrow.



Using another poster's analogy to a car, test drive it, if you like it buy it.  You may not want to buy more of anything for about 9 months to test the car.

Your end game would be Silver VIP.  The higher of the 25 percent Silver Discount at the then current Silver Discount window or the Resort Special discount rate (if that program still exists and is viable).


----------



## wjappraise (Apr 23, 2017)

TSGuest2017 said:


> well, I have the proposal in writing and locked rates. 750k is $25k at the price I was offered



Hook.  Line.  And sinker.  


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## TSGuest2017 (Apr 23, 2017)

The only way I would ever but it, is if I somehow get it dor next to nothing by buying more rental points to achieve enough "purchase price" credits to make it to VIP status. 

No way I would ever invest in a program where owners dont know the true benefits of their interest. Its clear to me that is the case here from my talks with the sales people. they couldn't answer all my questions.


----------



## TSGuest2017 (Apr 23, 2017)

wjappraise said:


> Hook.  Line.  And sinker.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


except Im never paying that. EVER


----------



## wjappraise (Apr 23, 2017)

You "purchased" perhaps as many as 154,000 points, but likely less.  The difference between what you purchased and what you currently have are bonus points.   So if you are calculating your cost per point including all of your bonus points that will lead you to an errant conclusion.  I assume you have calculated your locked price based upon all of your bonus points.  And that is not what your written contract says.  Your written contract will allow you to buy the points at the same price point of the actual point you bought.  Not including the bonus points you were given.   So 750,000 points is going to cost you about $150,000.  

Remember Wyndham has been at this a lot longer than any of us have.  And they know how to write a contract.  


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## wjappraise (Apr 23, 2017)

TSGuest2017 said:


> except Im never paying that. EVER



But you did pay $3000 for points you will find very difficult to use. And that may get you a week somewhere in a two bedroom unit off peak.  

Please know I'm not trying to convince you to not enjoy your "deal".  It's just experience trying to tell you that the deal isn't as fantastic as you believe it to be.  I would love to have you came back after your week long vacation in a four bedroom presidential unit at Myrtle Beach over July 4 week because then I'd ask to get your deal.  But it won't happen.  


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## TSGuest2017 (Apr 23, 2017)

wjappraise said:


> You "purchased" perhaps as many as 154,000 points, but likely less.  The difference between what you purchased and what you currently have are bonus points.   So if you are calculating your cost per point including all of your bonus points that will lead you to an errant conclusion.  I assume you have calculated your locked price based upon all of your bonus points.  And that is not what your written contract says.  Your written contract will allow you to buy the points at the same price point of the actual point you bought.  Not including the bonus points you were given.   So 750,000 points is going to cost you about $150,000.
> 
> Remember Wyndham has been at this a lot longer than any of us have.  And they know how to write a contract.
> 
> ...



no mention of bonus anything in contract  unless you are talking about additional 1,000 points for $.10 each. Not considering this at all


----------



## SmithOp (Apr 23, 2017)

TSGuest2017 said:


> Also, FYI, I have in writing a locked rate to buy 500,000k points  if I opt for that in the future for $18,000. So the above two issues combined tend to make me think I can benefit from what they offered me and i personally think this screws the owners. Wyndham hasn't thought their "discovery" program through for cash buyers. they make thir money of financing these. I just worked a way around that I think. but I will know tomorrow.



I don't own Wyndham or ever stayed at one, but I have been to more than 10 timeshare sales pitches.  Every one of them was designed to make me feel like I was getting a deal no one else could, and getting the better of their sales dept. 

You've been told this inventory is separate from other owners pool, so its not affecting them at all.  It will be interesting to see how you feel tomorrow.




Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## Avislo (Apr 23, 2017)

The intent of the posters is to be helpful.  I see you updated the info to a Gold VIP level.  The continuing discount would be 35 percent, I think, I have not followed Silver and Gold for awhile, if I am wrong, some can correct me.


----------



## Bigrob (Apr 23, 2017)

You are equating the "Discovery" points to regular use year points. Whether you have 400k, 700k, or 1M of these points you do not have anything close to that when you "apply it toward a purchase". 

The program you are on CAN be a good one, a nice way to try before you buy. But you should also be aware of the following caveats...

It isn't exactly what you will get if you end up buying. Availability is different... better in some cases, worse in others... point flexibility will be different if you convert to a purchase, points only good for a year unless you manually move them (once) to a different year at a fee... and cost to buy points is at a rack rate of about $240/K, with discounts of up to about 30%. So the $3k you pay for rental of these points isn't going to go far.

It doesn't screw current owners at all, it just allows Wyndham to get paid for their unsold points and the availability you will have will be based on points they haven't sold.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## bnoble (Apr 23, 2017)

TSGuest2017 said:


> sitting and listening to someone think they are smarter than me.


This is the only part that has me worried, because...



SmithOp said:


> I have been to more than 10 timeshare sales pitches. Every one of them was designed to make me feel like I was getting a deal no one else could, and getting the better of their sales dept.



I suppose you might be the One Guy. But, the sales staff are pros, and do this every day.


----------



## TSGuest2017 (Apr 23, 2017)

SmithOp said:


> I don't own Wyndham or ever stayed at one, but I have been to more than 10 timeshare sales pitches.  Every one of them was designed to make me feel like I was getting a deal no one else could, and getting the better of their sales dept.
> 
> You've been told this inventory is separate from other owners pool, so its not affecting them at all.  It will be interesting to see how you feel tomorrow.
> 
> ...



Agree 100% and exactly why I posted here.  I may cancel tomorrow and say I got a little dupped. But I will likely ise at least this for my vacation and then walk away.


----------



## ilya (Apr 23, 2017)

TSGuest2017 said:


> well, I have the proposal in writing and locked rates. 750k is $25k at the price I was offered, less than $5.50 maintenance fees and I can apply any purchases of additional points during my trial peirod to that. So I either got an incredible deal, or have a very good reason to get out of this (they lie ON paper).  which can certainly be the case. I would be surprised how if they dont honor this considering they just lost a $20M lawsuit for shit like this.
> 
> I will know tomorrow when I try booking a very expensive Point vacation for a 2 month from now window.
> 
> Also, I do get the discount on less points. thats on their discovery website contract and on their website. i will find the link and post it




And what resort offered you this great deal???


----------



## ronparise (Apr 23, 2017)

TSGuest2017 said:


> So I recently (in past 3 days) attended a Wyndham timeshare presentation with absolutely ZERO intention to buy. I was offered a great deal of perks to go which made it well worth the waste if 5 hours of my day and sitting and listening to someone think they are smarter than me.  BUT......I DID buy something from them and personally, If i already owned points I would be livid as an owner. Below is what I bought and why i would be livid.
> 
> 2 years "Try before you buy" and enough points in my try before you buy membership to also be considered VIP. So I get all the benefits of a VIP OWNER and I didnt have to sign my life away on maintenance fees. ive done the math and im basically paying less than owners and getting all the perks.
> 
> ...



so your question was ; how is this not completely screwing current VIP owners?

you have your answer...
 it"s not


----------



## TSGuest2017 (Apr 23, 2017)

wjappraise said:


> But you did pay $3000 for points you will find very difficult to use. And that may get you a week somewhere in a two bedroom unit off peak.
> 
> Please know I'm not trying to convince you to not enjoy your "deal".  It's just experience trying to tell you that the deal isn't as fantastic as you believe it to be.  I would love to have you came back after your week long vacation in a four bedroom presidential unit at Myrtle Beach over July 4 week because then I'd ask to get your deal.  But it won't happen.
> 
> ...



im not sure why my over 400k points for $3,000 wouldnt buy that and more. If it doesnt I am cancelling it and getting a refund because I am still within my right to and I know I can rent it from owners at that price


----------



## raygo123 (Apr 23, 2017)

When I was in the club Wyndham site, a phone number was given out that would grantee one getting cancel and rebook done successfully.  It turned out to be the number that the people who bought a trial package would call to make a reservation.  What you have to realize is you are pulling, as previously indicated, from Wyndham's inventory, not inventory owned by us.

Sent from my RCT6873W42 using Tapatalk


----------



## TSGuest2017 (Apr 23, 2017)

Bigrob said:


> You are equating the "Discovery" points to regular use year points. Whether you have 400k, 700k, or 1M of these points you do not have anything close to that when you "apply it toward a purchase".
> 
> The program you are on CAN be a good one, a nice way to try before you buy. But you should also be aware of the following caveats...
> 
> ...



Ok, so you are suggesting the Discovery Program booklet I got that has all the points values in it, the points I use for a specific Time frame and date are MORE than an owners booklet?  Thats what I was originally wondering actually.  I will pull both up later and compare.

As for when I can use them, its from now until December 2020 at no extra cost. That was a deal breaker for me and they have my end date of all points as december 2020.


----------



## TSGuest2017 (Apr 23, 2017)

raygo123 said:


> When I was in the club Wyndham site, a phone number was given out that would grantee one getting cancel and rebook done successfully.  It turned out to be the number that the people who bought a trial package would call to make a reservation.  What you have to realize is you are pulling, as previously indicated, from Wyndham's inventory, not inventory owned by us.
> 
> Sent from my RCT6873W42 using Tapatalk




Understood and exactly why I posted here. Wonder how much inventory they have compared to owners. And thus inventory isnt available to owners til when?


----------



## TSGuest2017 (Apr 23, 2017)

ilya said:


> And what resort offered you this great deal???



Bonnet Creek


----------



## tschwa2 (Apr 23, 2017)

TSGuest2017 said:


> well, I have the proposal in writing and locked rates. 750k is $25k at the price I was offered, less than $5.50 maintenance fees and I can apply any purchases of additional points during my trial peirod to that. So I either got an incredible deal, or have a very good reason to get out of this (they lie ON paper).  which can certainly be the case. I would be surprised how if they dont honor this considering they just lost a $20M lawsuit for shit like this.
> 
> I will know tomorrow when I try booking a very expensive Point vacation for a 2 month from now window.
> 
> Also, I do get the discount on less points. thats on their discovery website contract and on their website. i will find the link and post it


There isn't going to be any very expensive points weeks just sitting waiting to be booked in the 60 day window, for a current owner or for someone in the discovery program.  Most current vip's booked that inventory long ago and are waiting to cancel and rebook while it may show online for 2 seconds if you happen to have someone looking at the exact second for that exact inventory when it is cancelled.  Wyndham is in the process of making big changes that may not allow the current VIPs to operate that way in the future but thats how it works now.  

Make a copy of your proposal.  Redact out any personal information. Post it.  I am sure we can show you how this proposal is not a legally binding anything to purchase 500,000 annual points for $18,0000 or 750,000 annual points for $25,000.  I agree they are likely locking you in on an anual contract of 105,000-149,000 points with bonus points and showing how you can leverage those for 500,000 or 750,000 during the bonus 2-3 years.  At the end of the period, you wouldn't be VIP and you would own 105,000-149,000 no bonuses, no VIP.


----------



## Roger830 (Apr 23, 2017)

TSGuest2017 said:


> im not sure why my over 400k points for $3,000 wouldnt buy that and more. If it doesnt I am cancelling it and getting a refund because I am still within my right to and I know I can rent it from owners at that price



The problem with your logic is you don't know what rents will be in the future.

We bought our first fixed week timeshare in Hollywood Beach 17 years ago because we saw that rents would rise because of teardowns of mom and pop motels. This has happened, but we now have 3 winter weeks that cost $730 mf per week that the resort rents for $1800+ per week.

It's likely that rents for Wyndham weeks will rise with new rules.


----------



## TSGuest2017 (Apr 23, 2017)

tschwa2 said:


> There isn't going to be any very expensive points weeks just sitting waiting to be booked in the 60 day window, for a current owner or for someone in the discovery program.  Most current vip's booked that inventory long ago and are waiting to cancel and rebook while it may show online for 2 seconds if you happen to have someone looking at the exact second for that exact inventory when it is cancelled.  Wyndham is in the process of making big changes that may not allow the current VIPs to operate that way in the future but thats how it works now.
> 
> Make a copy of your proposal.  Redact out any personal information. Post it.  I am sure we can show you how this proposal is not a legally binding anything to purchase 500,000 annual points for $18,0000 or 750,000 annual points for $25,000.  I agree they are likely locking you in on an anual contract of 105,000-149,000 points with bonus points and showing how you can leverage those for 500,000 or 750,000 during the bonus 2-3 years.  At the end of the period, you wouldn't be VIP and you would own 105,000-149,000 no bonuses, no VIP.



Will do in about 30-45 minutes. im out and dont have it with me. Thanks for the help to look and see what i am missing


----------



## TSGuest2017 (Apr 23, 2017)

tschwa2 said:


> Make a copy of your proposal.  Redact out any personal information. Post it.  I am sure we can show you how this proposal is not a legally binding anything to purchase 500,000 annual points for $18,0000 or 750,000 annual points for $25,000.  I agree they are likely locking you in on an anual contract of 105,000-149,000 points with bonus points and showing how you can leverage those for 500,000 or 750,000 during the bonus 2-3 years.  At the end of the period, you wouldn't be VIP and you would own 105,000-149,000 no bonuses, no VIP.



Im pretty certain I purchased 400k+ points and there is no bonus at all. There was zero mention of any bonus. But again, they could have management to slide this "bonus" you are talking about past me. Which is very interesting since they never used that wors once.


----------



## chapjim (Apr 23, 2017)

ronparise said:


> so your question was ; how is this not completely screwing current VIP owners?
> 
> you have your answer...
> it"s not


And my answer was that there aren't any virgins amongst Wyndham owners.  We've been screwed before and we're being screwed now.  At some point, one more screwing doesn't matter.  But, this isn't one of them.

Ron's right.  No current owner cares a rat's whatever about the OP's Discovery purchase.  It affects no one.  I hope for the OP's sake, when it's over, she still thinks she took Wyndham and their dumba$$ sales people to the cleaners.


----------



## tschwa2 (Apr 23, 2017)

TSGuest2017 said:


> Im pretty certain I purchased 400k+ points and there is no bonus at all. There was zero mention of any bonus. But again, they could have management to slide this "bonus" you are talking about past me. Which is very interesting since they never used that wors once.


What you purchased is one time use of 400,000 points for $3000.  They are calling you VIP and giving you some VIP perks with the one time use.  It isn't a bad deal.  It's pretty much a one time thing and you won't be able to do it over and over to continue at VIP beyond 2020 without a true purchase.  You have 400,000 to use for 400,000 in points reservations according to the book you have.  Bonuses (reduced costs) are in the last minute window and there isn't very much of that sitting around at high demand locations.  Many VIP's with million plus points accounts that they could pull into 3 years of usage with pooling, have been able to manufacture there own discounted inventory by reserving early at full points and then cancelling and rebooking during the discount window.  You don't have enough points to do this.  You may have enough to do it once with a single 400,000 point reservation in 10 months that you cancel and rebook for 200,000 and then use the 200,000 for something else.  Unfortunately Wyndham has just announced changes that are changing the ability to cancel and rebook previously held reservations.

By the way- Still not clear- do you get gold perks or platinum or just silver?   

What I am saying is the 500,000-750,000 packages that they say they are locking in for you in the future at the $18,000-$25,000 rate includes bonus points.  What you can buy for $18,000 is going to be about 105,000 annual points (after the bonuses expire 2 years after purchase) and you would be nowhere near a permanent VIP after that time, just an owner of 105,000 points who spent about $15,000 for the 2 extra years of points and perks (if you consider the value of the bonus points and perks at 3000 for those additional 2 years.


----------



## Braindead (Apr 23, 2017)

We have a virgin OP trying to tell the Wyndham pros to turn in all contracts and start buying Discovery only. 

I think I will stick with the pros.


----------



## dagger1 (Apr 23, 2017)

TSGuest2017 said:


> The only way I would ever but it, is if I somehow get it dor next to nothing by buying more rental points to achieve enough "purchase price" credits to make it to VIP status.
> 
> No way I would ever invest in a program where owners dont know the true benefits of their interest. Its clear to me that is the case here from my talks with the sales people. they couldn't answer all my questions.


I know my benefits as a CWA "resale" buyer:  I can book 13 months out at any resort in CWA for points specified by Wyndham.  In general, I can book 1, 2 and sometimes 3 BR units for the same or less than a hotel room would cost.  I'm not in the rental business, never will be.  I'm not eligible for any VIP "maybe's", but am not unhappy about that.  I like everywhere we have been so far, (La Cascada and Avenue Plaza), and am looking forward to the seven resorts we will be visiting this year.  And have rolled over 166,000 points into RCI for a weeks stay in Galveston...  I don't feel screwed by Wyndham at all...


----------



## TSGuest2017 (Apr 23, 2017)

Braindead said:


> We have a virgin OP trying to tell the Wyndham pros to turn in all contracts and start buying Discovery only.
> 
> I think I will stick with the pros.



right....hope people can read and see i NEVER said that.  Im just saying, I WOULD have been a customer of some of the owners that rent theirs out. And Wyndham just took that from you all (if what I believe to be correct is in fact, correct). Thats all Im saying


----------



## tschwa2 (Apr 23, 2017)

TSGuest2017 said:


> right....hope people can read and see i NEVER said that.  Im just saying, I WOULD have been a customer of some of the owners that rent theirs out. And Wyndham just took that from you all (if what I believe to be correct is in fact, correct). Thats all Im saying


You still might be after your package is up and you might have more of an appreciation of the ease of renting what and where you want instead of having to learn all the ins and outs to make it work.


----------



## TSGuest2017 (Apr 23, 2017)

I will have to post this later because Im on my phone and will need to scan this in for all the fine print to be viewable. But I now see what you all are saying when you are referring to "bonus" points. Bonus points are irrelevant for discovery members. we dont have bonus points. That is on the proposal IF I planned to purchase and it matches the amount i purchased. 

IE - You can have this offer for x points a nd the bonus points all equal the amount of points on the proposals I had them do (400k = 400k additional bonus points and so on).  But discovery users dont use bonus points. They only use their entire pool of points they "rented". I never had them quote anything that was under 400k points purchased because I would always want the 25%+ discount.


----------



## chapjim (Apr 23, 2017)

TSGuest2017 said:


> right....hope people can read and see i NEVER said that.  Im just saying, I WOULD have been a customer of some of the owners that rent theirs out. And Wyndham just took that from you all (if what I believe to be correct is in fact, correct). Thats all Im saying



Please try to understand something.  What you received was not to the detriment of current Wyndham owners, at least not any material, non-trivial detriment.  At most, it would be like taking a tablespoon of water out of the pool and looking for a change in the water level.


----------



## TSGuest2017 (Apr 23, 2017)

tschwa2 said:


> You still might be after your package is up and you might have more of an appreciation of the ease of renting what and where you want instead of having to learn all the ins and outs to make it work.



Absolutely...but i kind of already knew a little as a renter of owners and like to be an informed consumer.  But if I can purchase more points at the same rate over the next two years and keep rinsing and repeating that (i.e. I rent those out) and that "purchase" amount gets applied to a future ownership, technically I could bank alot of purchases to apply towards ownership at zero cost to me. Or very minimal in comparison.  Even if it does cost me $50 grand....others would be paying that and I would get the credit towards a future purchase.

THATS the loophole Im talking about. Its unclear to me at this point if I can do that but I do know I do not have to be the one staying at the resorts. Although I will be for MY vacation. But IF they allow that, why wouldnt I do it, just in case? 

I doubt I want to travel down that path. But I just find this pretty shitty to do to owners. ALL of it. thats all


----------



## tschwa2 (Apr 23, 2017)

You can't.  If you buy in with the credit from your discovery package you won't be eligible for another non owner package like discovery.  Owners can't take a discovery package.  As mentioned your $18,000 won't even get you a fifth of the way to VIP.


----------



## TSGuest2017 (Apr 23, 2017)

tschwa2 said:


> You can't.  If you buy in with the credit from your discovery package you won't be eligible for another non owner package like discovery.  Owners can't take a discovery package.  As mentioned your $18,000 won't even get you a fifth of the way to VIP.



First, I didnt spend $18k. I spent $3k but thats not what Im talking about. Their Discovery program lets me BUY extra discovery points and the contract says anything I BUY between now and Dec 2020, gets applied to MY contract purchase.  Understand?


----------



## TSGuest2017 (Apr 23, 2017)

Im fairly confident there is a loophole here you all arent seeing. Im not going to pretend to know everything about Wyndham. But Ive read EVERYTHING and Ive rented for YEARS and their contract says I can buy more points for 2 1/2 years and I technically coukd rent those to others and then get the credit for it much later. 

It would take alot of time and effort. But in my opinion, thats 100x better than signing away on a $50,000 commitment PLUS maintenance. 

And I think ONLY people that do this as a buisness would benefit from this "potential" loophole.


----------



## tschwa2 (Apr 23, 2017)

I know you didn't spend $18,000, that would be the first step on an actual purchase of points (not rental).   That is the guarantee buy in you said was on your proposal.   The discovery package will let you "rent" additional points.  Rental points value may be applied to your pack deal but you will still have to start eventually buying something and more power to you if you want to rent another 800,000 points to be used by 2020 and then purchase using the $9000 in credits that you rented the 1.2 million points for toward the $21,000 package- now minus $9000 now $12,000 for something that will be VIP for less than 2 years.     Unless your plan is to rent and using 80 million discovery points to be used by 2020 and then applying the $70,000 you spent renting those points toward the $90,000 package you would need to buy to just be a platinum VIP with an annual 1 million a year contract your plan won't work.  Even if they let you spend $15,000 to get 2 million now (which I doubt they would) you would still be no where near the threshold to become a permanent platinum VIP with the $15,000 credit.

Your guaranteed credit from the discovery package rental (purchase) only lasts until the package expires.  You won't have a $3000-$15,000 credit waiting indefinately and if they say you do- they only way they would honor that is if the price guarantee they gave you expireded and then they would just quote you a higher retail price against your unlimited time credit.  Just as if I had a piece of paper telling me XYZ would give me a $4000 trade in credit for my junker car, they would sell me the car for the same final price with our without the trade in credit


----------



## TSGuest2017 (Apr 23, 2017)

tschwa2 said:


> I know you didn't spend $18,000, that would be the first step on an actual purchase of points (not rental).   That is the guarantee buy in you said was on your proposal.   The discovery package will let you "rent" additional points.  Rental points value may be applied to your pack deal but you will still have to start eventually buying something and more power to you if you want to rent another 800,000 points to be used by 2020 and then purchase using the $9000 in credits that you rented the 1.2 million points for toward the $21,000 package- now minus $9000 now $12,000 for something that will be VIP for less than 2 years.     Unless your plan is to rent and using 80 million discovery points to be used by 2020 and then applying the $70,000 you spent renting those points toward the $90,000 package you would need to buy to just be a platinum VIP with an annual 1 million a year contract your plan won't work.  Even if they let you spend $15,000 to get 2 million now (which I doubt they would) you would still be no where near the threshold to become a permanent platinum VIP with the $15,000 credit.



Their low end silver and gold VIP package is $50k with all the handouts they gave me ("Todays Price"). So you are correct in your first statement.  But IF they let me use buying more points towards a future purchase, its closer to only 7 million points to get to the $50k number. nowhere near 80 million.

$3,000 x 16 times = $48,000 = 7.2 million points

The paperwork says I can buy more and the contract says Discovery Owners "purchase" prices get applied to an investment in ownership at the end of the term.

If they thought the above scenario through and have chacks and balances in place for it, they are very well hidden.

And They KNEW I wasnt going to buy.  I think I could  them down on the VIP level buy in prices


----------



## tschwa2 (Apr 23, 2017)

Silver is worth isn't worth any thing meaningful.  You would need  to go gold and I was thinking more like platinum.  If you have $50,000 in "credit" they aren't going to let you talk them down.  The paperwork says you can buy more but does it say an unlimited amount more at that rate?  Yes they might let you double or triple what you are contracted for now but that doesn't mean they will let you do it time 20 or 40.   Again it isn't hidden and I didn't even go or have the paper in front of me.  They are hidden to you because you don't have the experience.  In inexperienced person without online reservation capacities or a rental platform already established is going to have a lot of problems renting out more than 2 million worth of points in 2.7 years.  Maybe I'm wrong but like you said is that something you would like to gamble with $50,000-$80,000 to find out?


----------



## TSGuest2017 (Apr 23, 2017)

tschwa2 said:


> Silver is worth isn't worth any thing meaningful.  You would need  to go gold and I was thinking more like platinum.  If you have $50,000 in "credit" they aren't going to let you talk them down.  The paperwork says you can buy more but does it say an unlimited amount more at that rate?  Yes they might let you double or triple what you are contracted for now but that doesn't mean they will let you do it time 20 or 40.   Again it isn't hidden and I didn't even go or have the paper in front of me.  They are hidden to you because you don't have the experience.  In inexperienced person without online reservation capacities or a rental platform already established is going to have a lot of problems renting out more than 2 million worth of points in 2.7 years.  Maybe I'm wrong but like you said is that something you would like to gamble with $50,000-$80,000 to find out?



Well no. absolutely not. I would never buy that many points all at once. I would ensure I have them rented out first OR can easily do so over the course of 2.5 years. So I may go on first vacation with 1/4 pr 1/2 my points. rent out the rest and MAYBE buy a half a million more to rent the units out and IF all goes well AND I at least break even (hopeful to make a little $) then start rinsing and repeating the purchases and rentals 8 x a year for the next 2 years. Then Im at that level or more (depending on how it goes) and sitting on the purchase credits.

I will get a feel tomorrow what Im dealing with and see what the options are.


----------



## TSGuest2017 (Apr 23, 2017)

And no, the paperwork does not say I cant buy an unlimited amount nor does it say I have a cap to how many I can buy.  It DOES say if I want to apply them towards a trip within 60 days of booking I can buy the same amount I purchased originally for the same price. But thats how I would want to do it anyhow. quick turnover on my money. Buy, rent, recoup my money and keep repeating that.

IF I even do it at all. Its time consuming to say the least. But I do have experience in selling rentals and more so in renting them. Just not via Wyndham


----------



## TSGuest2017 (Apr 23, 2017)

But as for "talking them down" I already have the VIP Gold locked at "Todays Price". So worst case, its in the $50kish range. They cant go back on a locked in contract (legally anyhow).


----------



## ronparise (Apr 23, 2017)

TSGuest2017 said:


> But as for "talking them down" I already have the VIP Gold locked at "Todays Price". So worst case, its in the $50kish range. They cant go back on a locked in contract (legally anyhow).



No you don't have a contract to buy a gold membership for $50000

It may be fools gold, as much as 308000 points with a 400000 bonus, but it isn't real gold. 700000 points for $50000


----------



## raygo123 (Apr 23, 2017)

TSGuest2017 said:


> But as for "talking them down" I already have the VIP Gold locked at "Todays Price". So worst case, its in the $50kish range. They cant go back on a locked in contract (legally anyhow).


I think you are in for a rude awakening.  Today's price means nothing.  When Wyndham refers to today's price, that's today's rack price which last I bought was $225.00 per thousand points.  Wyndham's price lock is worthless, and everyone that buys gets a price lock for two years.  Makes you feel warm and fuzzy till its too late to rescind.

Sent from my RCT6873W42 using Tapatalk


----------



## tschwa2 (Apr 23, 2017)

Oh if you can only buy points that are applicable to bookings in the next 60 days, you are going to be in for a rude awakening about what you can get in the 60 day window.  You also don't know that there is a $119 fee for putting a reservation in a guest name over the phone.  I doubt they gave you more than one or 2 "free" guest certs.  You aren't going to find full weeks available at 60 days you will be lucky to find 2-3 days.  So if you make 6 reservations you are already looking at another $720 in fees.  No one can churn out that kind of rental income on an ongoing basis with the leftovers.


----------



## uscav8r (Apr 23, 2017)

TSGuest2017 said:


> First, I didnt spend $18k. I spent $3k but thats not what Im talking about. Their Discovery program lets me BUY extra discovery points and the contract says anything I BUY between now and Dec 2020, gets applied to MY contract purchase.  Understand?



You didn't spend $18k... yet.  But you allude to buying more bunches of Discovery points that may END UP costing you up to $18k (that number did not come out of thin air as it was mentioned somewhere in this thread). In any case, all you have bought is the right to use 400k points over 2 years, at which point they expire. 

Let's assume you do buy more rental points and they are ALL eligible to be applied toward a permanent purchase. That purchase will be offered at the full retail rate. 

You will NOT have 400k permanent points unless you pay the rack rate for those points (roughly $80,000). Your $3000 will be applied to that $80k price tag, so you'll spend another $77k to gain PERMANENT VIP Silver status. 

As a Silver VIP, I can tell you this level of benefit is hardly worth it. Gold is the minimum anyone should even consider, but at over $140k, the cost is not worth the benefit. 

As I mentioned before, enjoy your Discovery package, but I highly recommend buying resale if you do like the Wyndham product. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Avislo (Apr 23, 2017)

In reviewing the The Wyndham Discovery Program Directory, I do not see where a Discovery Member or Discovery VIP Member gets to use any guest certificates.  I may have missed it.  Additionally, you may want to review the renting points section of the directory.  Under the terms of any Wyndham Club Plus related contract, the directory terms control per the contract.  I would tend to believe that clause is in the Wyndham Discovery contract.  

Even if the Wyndham Discovery Program permitted renting at the levels you believe may be possible, be very careful.  By report, Guest Certificates are part of the both the Suspension Issue and current changes about to be implemented.

http://www.wyndhaminteractivesaleshub.com/club-wyndham/CW_Discovery_Cover_Combined_Pgs.pdf


----------



## bnoble (Apr 23, 2017)

OP, I'll repeat myself.

You are convinced you're the smartest guy in the room---not just the sales room, but also here in the Wyndham corner of TUG. Now, that's possible. You might be That Guy. But, there are a lot of people who've chimed in on this thread who know a lot (a _whole_ lot) about the nuts and bolts of Wyndham. It's possible that maybe you could learn something from them.

Maybe. Or not.


----------



## paxsarah (Apr 23, 2017)

Avislo said:


> In reviewing the The Wyndham Discovery Program Directory, I do not see where a Discovery Member or Discovery VIP Member gets to use any guest certificates.  I may have missed it.  Additionally, you may want to review the renting points section of the directory.  Under the terms of any Wyndham Club Plus related contract, the directory terms control per the contract.  I would tend to believe that clause is in the Wyndham Discovery contract.
> 
> Even if the Wyndham Discovery Program permitted renting at the levels you believe may be possible, be very careful.  By report, Guest Certificates are part of the both the Suspension Issue and current changes about to be implemented.
> 
> http://www.wyndhaminteractivesaleshub.com/club-wyndham/CW_Discovery_Cover_Combined_Pgs.pdf



Helpful link! It does mention purchasing guest certificates at $129, but doesn't mention any included.


----------



## am1 (Apr 23, 2017)

bnoble said:


> OP, I'll repeat myself.
> 
> You are convinced you're the smartest guy in the room---not just the sales room, but also here in the Wyndham corner of TUG. Now, that's possible. You might be That Guy. But, there are a lot of people who've chimed in on this thread who know a lot (a _whole_ lot) about the nuts and bolts of Wyndham. It's possible that maybe you could learn something from them.
> 
> Maybe. Or not.



Cheaper ways to get to gold/platinum anyways.   

It is good that you are trying a discovery package first.  Then you will get real first hand knowledge.


----------



## vacationhopeful (Apr 23, 2017)

My experience with the Discovery program is several years old.

It is a one time 'rental' of Wyndham points and you have a special booking number to call. Usually, your vacation stays will be short .. 3 or 4 night stays. Guest certificates are NOT an issue .. as YOU are the guest & you MUST use the points. You might be required or strongly encourage to attend an Owner's Update (sales presentation each stay) for each stay. The Discovery Program has its OWN inventory .. making it appear as those PRIME stays are truly available WHEN and WHERE you want. And with limited planning ... no ARP required for 13 months in advance.

And I believe, it is a ONE time opportunity ... a hook for a buyer to _THINK_ this is the best thing since sliced bread. _IT_ really is a well crafted and _not totally honest SAMPLE offering_.


----------



## TSGuest2017 (Apr 23, 2017)

ronparise said:


> No you don't have a contract to buy a gold membership for $50000
> 
> It may be fools gold, as much as 308000 points with a 400000 bonus, but it isn't real gold. 700000 points for $50000



Ive already said I SEE the bonus on the contract and thats NOT what Im talking about and actually, I didnt even know these included bonus points at the same exact level. So 500k points plus 500k more. Even better. MY contract says "Membership Type = Discovery VIP" and the lock in "price freeze" on the contract states the price "is the same as was being offered for that vacation ownership on the Entollment Date of THIS agreement"

Their original offer said "154,000 Total Points and then 246,000 Bonus Points" totaling the 400k.

I then said, thats not happening and they came back and gave me a price of

Retail = $104k
Discount = $42,000
Net Price = $58,000

THIS one has the 400k Total Points and 400k Bonus points but of course financing and a 14% interest rate.

I then said they are out if their mind and I wouldnt finance a vacation (again, I had no intention of buying) but for the hell of it said "I would pay cash" and told them Im done and leaving.

Of course they came back and gave me the whole Discovery spill and I said I eould maybe consider it and at THAT point they lowered the offer.

I was under the assumption gold is 500k points. If not then I am wrong, but 500k point offer was in the $50k range with 500 bonus points.

It has the Gross Price per 1,000 points like you all say at $251.00. But the "Today's" aprice is almost cut in half on most of the Proposals.

If in 2 years they dont accept the Todays Price, screw em. I dont really care even. I just found this pretty odd and a slap in the face to owners.


----------



## TSGuest2017 (Apr 23, 2017)

bnoble said:


> OP, I'll repeat myself.
> 
> You are convinced you're the smartest guy in the room---not just the sales room, but also here in the Wyndham corner of TUG. Now, that's possible. You might be That Guy. But, there are a lot of people who've chimed in on this thread who know a lot (a _whole_ lot) about the nuts and bolts of Wyndham. It's possible that maybe you could learn something from them.
> 
> Maybe. Or not.




No, I never said I was the smartest man in the room and the sales guy ACTED like he was and as if HE was smarter. THATS what I eluded to. He honestly tried using reverse psychology and saying shit like "Yeah you arent going to buy because you cant" and silly shit like that.  The ONLY reason I did is because I planned on traveling anyhow and would likely have spennt more than $3k. And if tomorrow when I call I cant get what I want for $3k, i will put a stop payment on the check and cancel.

Sorry you took it that way and think I am acting all smart.  Im truly bouncing ideas off you all because I personally would be upset as an owner the way they are handling these "sales"


----------



## TSGuest2017 (Apr 23, 2017)

AND, Im not a man by the way.


----------



## raygo123 (Apr 23, 2017)

I will see you in two and a half years when Wyndham offers you even a better deal,

Sent from my RCT6873W42 using Tapatalk


----------



## TSGuest2017 (Apr 23, 2017)

Avislo said:


> In reviewing the The Wyndham Discovery Program Directory, I do not see where a Discovery Member or Discovery VIP Member gets to use any guest certificates.  I may have missed it.  Additionally, you may want to review the renting points section of the directory.  Under the terms of any Wyndham Club Plus related contract, the directory terms control per the contract.  I would tend to believe that clause is in the Wyndham Discovery contract.
> 
> Even if the Wyndham Discovery Program permitted renting at the levels you believe may be possible, be very careful.  By report, Guest Certificates are part of the both the Suspension Issue and current changes about to be implemented.
> 
> http://www.wyndhaminteractivesaleshub.com/club-wyndham/CW_Discovery_Cover_Combined_Pgs.pdf



I asked this question and was told I dont have to personally go on all vacations using my points I only have to go on the FIRST one. If that is mis-information, then I learned something.

So Wyndhams position is owners SHOULDNT rent their units?  Thats against policy?  Im not sure what they are/were smoking to think platinum members with millions of points ever had any intention when buying them of using them all themselves. Thats absurd.

But they seem crooked as hell. So they allow the sale of them and then suspend them?  Even more reason to dump this "rental" now.


----------



## uscav8r (Apr 23, 2017)

TSGuest2017 said:


> I asked this question and was told I dont have to personally go on all vacations using my points I only have to go on the FIRST one. If that is mis-information, then I learned something.
> 
> So Wyndhams position is owners SHOULDNT rent their units?  Thats against policy?  Im not sure what they are/were moking to think platinum members with millions of points ever had any intention when buying them of using them all themselves. Thats absurd.
> 
> But they seem crooked as hell. So they allow the sale of them and then suspend them?  Even more reason to dump this "rental" now.



It really sounds as if you have talked yourself out of the package, so why continue on?

They don't discourage renting by the masses per se, but they are trying to curtail large scale commercial renting with some of the recently announced program changes. 

Whether or not you can "rent" Discovery vacations is another issue entirely. The policies for Discovery are not exactly the same as for actual ownership, so take any limitations on Discovery usage with a grain of salt. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## TSGuest2017 (Apr 23, 2017)

raygo123 said:


> I will see you in two and a half years when Wyndham offers you even a better deal,
> 
> Sent from my RCT6873W42 using Tapatalk



Never said it was anywhere near a good deal. I wouldnt pay a dime to them of MY money for ownership. But if I can take advantage of a loophole, Im not ashamed to say, I have no problems bending the ethical nature of that loophole for my own benefit.


----------



## TSGuest2017 (Apr 23, 2017)

uscav8r said:


> It really sounds as if you have talked yourself out of the package, so why continue on?
> 
> They don't discourage renting by the masses per se, but they are trying to curtail large scale commercial renting with some of the recently announced program changes.
> 
> ...



I very likely wont continue on.  its only been like a day.


----------



## TSGuest2017 (Apr 23, 2017)

I dont think Discovery is/was designed for VIP and I asked and was told, by at least this sales office, that not many (if any buy Discovery at that point level.  So At least for the sales guys I dealt with, this was new territory for them and  they were under the assumptions VIP benefits of owners I get the same of.  

Has anyone else ever done Discovery at the VIP level that you know of?

I will for sure have no issue burning through 400k points. But the benefits seem different for Discovery VIP vs Discovery Non VIP


----------



## ronparise (Apr 23, 2017)

TSGuest2017 said:


> Never said it was anywhere near a good deal. I wouldnt pay a dime to them of MY money for ownership. But if I can take advantage of a loophole, Im not ashamed to say, I have no problems bending the ethical nature of that loophole for my own benefit.



I guess I don't understand the loophole


----------



## Avislo (Apr 23, 2017)

When you call tomorrow trying booking what you want for vacations with what you have plus the 1,000 points.  Also, asked them about the use of guest certificates and the rules of use.  Wyndham's position on renting is tricky.  They are a massive mega-renter of Fairfield Trust (AKA Wyndham Club Plus) timeshare interests through Extra Holidays and other rental operations they own or control.

Part of Wyndham's sales pitches, over a time frame longer than I've been involved with the Club, have included various buy to rent pitches at various locations.  Do not know if they quit doing this in the last couple of years or not.  When Wyndham Worldwide and a lot of it's business units were part of Cedent, there were serious legal problems related to your "crooked comment" and timeshare shares they owned, sold, rented, etc.  The relevant name if you are Googling the issue would be Fairfield Resorts, if I remember right.  It was a long time ago before they bought Wyndham (primarily a Texas Based outfit) and re-named a bunch of their operations as Wyndham something.

The suspension issues should not control how you use the Wyndham Discovery program, however, could factor into weather or not to buy into Wyndham Club Plus.  Let the snide comments bounce off.  Some posters on this site do not use gender neutral terms if the gender of the person is unknown.


----------



## cayman01 (Apr 23, 2017)

I will go at this another way. I've been to the Bonnet Creek presentation a few years ago and I got the same spiel about the Discovery package. The numbers didn't add up about the Gold VIP status. When we started it was 53k for 400,000 points which was Silver at the time. After he realized we weren't buying he went the Discovery route and talked about Gold VIP. The number for Gold was considerably less and I was like WTH is going on. He then admitted it was temporary VIP for five years, after which we ended up with I think 154k of permanent points. AND I could only do ONE Discovery package. No more. Seems like some embellishment of the story since we were there.


----------



## TSGuest2017 (Apr 23, 2017)

cayman01 said:


> I will go at this another way. I've been to the Bonnet Creek presentation a few years ago and I got the same spiel about the Discovery package. The numbers didn't add up about the Gold VIP status. When we started it was 53k for 400,000 points which was Silver at the time. After he realized we weren't buying he went the Discovery route and talked about Gold VIP. The number for Gold was considerably less and I was like WTH is going on. He then admitted it was temporary VIP for five years, after which we ended up with I think 154k of permanent points. AND I could only do ONE Discovery package. No more. Seems like some embellishment of the story since we were there.




well, that's interesting but they never said a word nor is anything in writing "temporary". 

I wouldnt need another Discovery package as I can purchase more points. Thats what the website says anyhow and what I was told.  The only questions are "Whats the availability going to look like AND are they going to take issue with me NOT going on all the vacations"

Although I asked those questions, there is no way to know for sure til when I book and try putting it in someone elses name.


----------



## TSGuest2017 (Apr 23, 2017)

Avislo said:


> When you call tomorrow trying booking what you want for vacations with what you have plus the 1,000 points.  Also, asked them about the use of guest certificates and the rules of use.  Wyndham's position on renting is tricky.  They are a massive mega-renter of Fairfield Trust (AKA Wyndham Club Plus) timeshare interests through Extra Holidays and other rental operations they own or control.
> 
> Part of Wyndham's sales pitches, over a time frame longer than I've been involved with the Club, have included various buy to rent pitches at various locations.  Do not know if they quit doing this in the last couple of years or not.  When Wyndham Worldwide and a lot of it's business units were part of Cedent, there were serious legal problems related to your "crooked comment" and timeshare shares they owned, sold, rented, etc.  The relevant name if you are Googling the issue would be Fairfield Resorts, if I remember right.  It was a long time ago before they bought Wyndham (primarily a Texas Based outfit) and re-named a bunch of their operations as Wyndham something.
> 
> The suspension issues should not control how you use the Wyndham Discovery program, however, could factor into weather or not to buy into Wyndham Club Plus.  Let the snide comments bounce off.  Some posters on this site do not use gender neutral terms if the gender of the person is unknown.



Well, this is really interesting because I REALLY got the impression that Wyndham was and perhaps is moreso now holding back an alottmemt of rentals for this Discovery program and if you think about it, their Discovery Program IS doing exactly that. They are a rental company disquising this as a "try before you buy" scheme because they know damn well 90% of anyone that can pay them properly is smart enough to buy resale with the policies they have in place.  So arent they just "pretending" and "covering" this program up for their own gain and no owners think they may be taking away your inventory or making it harder on you as owners?

I knew the minute the last guy came to talk to me about "let me offer you something special" he was full of sh*t but I just saw a small loophole in some cheap vacations and a potential for income generating opportunity and very slim chance the above 2 can be applied later towards MY purchase if I ever decide I want to pay maintenance fees.

I dont know what to think as I dont have any access to inventory. But I would for sure be willing to check tomorrow if anyone wants to send me a hard to get destination and week.

If they only have stuff available in 3-4 day increments for the discovery program then Im out for sure. I cant see why they would even have a program like that as most people need a week vacation


----------



## tschwa2 (Apr 23, 2017)

and I wouldn't be surprised if you are not fully in the system until after the rescission period is over.


----------



## TSGuest2017 (Apr 23, 2017)

tschwa2 said:


> and I wouldn't be surprised if you are not fully in the system until after the rescission period is over.



Right, and then I cancel because they cant expect me to "trust" them with a short rescend period. They should have it align with their ability to get someone in the system if they dont want people to cancel. Otherwise, their loss and I will then rent from a current owner for less money


----------



## tschwa2 (Apr 23, 2017)

TSGuest2017 said:


> Right, and then I cancel because they cant expect me to "trust" them with a short rescend period. They should have it align with their ability to get someone in the system if they dont want people to cancel. Otherwise, their loss and I will then rent from a current owner for less money


Wyndham really doesn't care about your $4000.  If you can't trust them on this tiny thing you won't trust them to the tune of $18,000 for 105,000 points or $80-100,000 for enough to become platinum or $150,000+ to become presidential Reserve.  Like the 220 million Euros lottery winner scam, they make it obvious enough that if you aren't going to take those first little leaps they know they won't have you for the giant leaps they want you to take later so better throw you back and hook someone else.  They want you to think you found a loophole to the "fabulous" life of a VIP and no matter how much you spend, they will always find a problem that can be solved with an $18,000-$20,000 purchase.


----------



## raygo123 (Apr 23, 2017)

TSGuest2017 said:


> well, that's interesting but they never said a word nor is anything in writing "temporary".
> 
> I wouldnt need another Discovery package as I can purchase more points. Thats what the website says anyhow and what I was told.  The only questions are "Whats the availability going to look like AND are they going to take issue with me NOT going on all the vacations"
> 
> Although I asked those questions, there is no way to know for sure til when I book and try putting it in someone elses name.


Thought you had an end date of 2020.  You are right.  Its already there. The duration of your contract stops, ends.

As long as Wyndham's takes a live and let live, im fine, the benefits have to be equal in value to money spent.  So no there is no animosity.  Yet.

Sent from my RCT6873W42 using Tapatalk


----------



## TSGuest2017 (Apr 23, 2017)

tschwa2 said:


> Wyndham really doesn't care about your $4000.  If you can't trust them on this tiny thing you won't trust them to the tune of $18,000 for 105,000 points or $80-100,000 for enough to become platinum or $150,000+ to become presidential Reserve.  Like the 220 million Euros lottery winner scam, they make it obvious enough that if you aren't going to take those first little leaps they know they won't have you for the giant leaps they want you to take later so better throw you back and hook someone else.  They want you to think you found a loophole to the "fabulous" life of a VIP and no matter how much you spend, they will always find a problem that can be solved with an $18,000-$20,000 purchase.



Presidential Reserve is excluded and that is in writing. So I for sure am out of reach for that. 

I get the point. But again, I have no intention nor will I ever of giving them my money above and beyond renting points for my own benefit. And I made that perfectly clear to them. 

I just get the feeling they are moving away from caring about mine or anyone elses "purchase" and are becoming more focused on renting in this program to as many people as possible and if by some slim chance those people buy in later, great. If not, they have many more lined up to rent more.


----------



## TSGuest2017 (Apr 23, 2017)

raygo123 said:


> Thought you had an end date of 2020.  You are right.  Its already there. The duration of your contract stops, ends.
> 
> As long as Wyndham's takes a live and let live, im fine, the benefits have to be equal in value to money spent.  So no there is no animosity.  Yet.
> 
> Sent from my RCT6873W42 using Tapatalk



I do have an extension til 2020 and yes my contract ends then UNLESS I can rent units the entire 2 years until then AND the purchase of those rentals can be applied towards me purchasing a VIP level unit. If so, I would consider signing up for the maintenance committment if its worth it financially.  (I find I can make decent money renting them out).

If any or one of the above scenarios dont work out, then I walk away. so for me, it has to be a TRUE try before you buy and other perks as well.


----------



## raygo123 (Apr 23, 2017)

TSGuest2017 said:


> Presidential Reserve is excluded and that is in writing. So I for sure am out of reach for that.
> 
> I get the point. But again, I have no intention nor will I ever of giving them my money above and beyond renting points for my own benefit. And I made that perfectly clear to them.
> 
> I just get the feeling they are moving away from caring about mine or anyone elses "purchase" and are becoming more focused on renting in this program to as many people as possible and if by some slim chance those people buy in later, great. If not, they have many more lined up to rent more.


Yep, Wyndham pays the maintenance fees on what they own.  It keeps paying their fare share of the bills.  If they want to sell you the points to get their money back, they own them, right?

Sent from my RCT6873W42 using Tapatalk


----------



## tschwa2 (Apr 23, 2017)

So I am confused are you rescinding or keeping the discovery package.  You aren't going to know if it will work before your time is up to rescind on that one.


----------



## raygo123 (Apr 23, 2017)

TSGuest2017 said:


> Presidential Reserve is excluded and that is in writing. So I for sure am out of reach for that.
> 
> I get the point. But again, I have no intention nor will I ever of giving them my money above and beyond renting points for my own benefit. And I made that perfectly clear to them.
> 
> I just get the feeling they are moving away from caring about mine or anyone elses "purchase" and are becoming more focused on renting in this program to as many people as possible and if by some slim chance those people buy in later, great. If not, they have many more lined up to rent more.


That's funny.


TSGuest2017 said:


> I do have an extension til 2020 and yes my contract ends then UNLESS I can rent units the entire 2 years until then AND the purchase of those rentals can be applied towards me purchasing a VIP level unit. If so, I would consider signing up for the maintenance committment if its worth it financially.  (I find I can make decent money renting them out).
> 
> If any or one of the above scenarios dont work out, then I walk away. so for me, it has to be a TRUE try before you buy and other perks as well.




Sent from my RCT6873W42 using Tapatalk


----------



## TSGuest2017 (Apr 23, 2017)

raygo123 said:


> Yep, Wyndham pays the maintenance fees on what they own.  It keeps paying their fare share of the bills.  If they want to sell you the points to get their money back, they own them, right?
> 
> Sent from my RCT6873W42 using Tapatalk



Well, of course they do and they have every right to sell them to anyone. I just dont think nor do I get the impression that is their focus anymore. I get the impression they are trying to make current owners life way more difficult and rent the units themselves. and they could care less what anyone in Discovery does with those rentals as long as it covers their costs.

I personally think its a conflict of interest for them to have both these programs at the same time, I find it very odd they are so willingly taking units off anyones hands if they dont have some financial gain like this to do so, and on top of that I personally get the feeling they are holding back OWNERS inventory that legally they probably shouldnt.

I may be way off base on these assumptions.  But why offer this program at all IF THEY DONT CARE about my $3,000?  Why spend so much time and money offering these rentals to people like me?

I think perhaps some owners are trusting Wyndham a little too much. I would have a lot more questions about this stuff going on.

And just so everyone knows, Ive been to presentations in the past. The "environment" at these for Wyndham is now different. People are much more willing to sign up for something they can use with zero commitment.  And they are and Wyndhams sales pitch is all geared towards THAT and THAT alone.  Nobody is buying from them anymore. They are entering into this program and everyone is walking out of the presentations happy.

Im sorry, but if I were an owner, this would really worry me and what it means for my investment in them.


----------



## TSGuest2017 (Apr 23, 2017)

tschwa2 said:


> So I am confused are you rescinding or keeping the discovery package.  You aren't going to know if it will work before your time is up to rescind on that one.



Part 1 - booking MY personal vacation I can do immediately and plan to tomorrow.

If I cant do that like I want, I am out.  If part 1 goes ok, no loss as I would have spent the $3k on my vacations anyhow.

Then I will move to Part II which is buying more points under my current membership but in someone else name. I will likely do it for a friend or family member in case it doesnt work out that way no harm done to anyone.  They will know they only pay me if it works.

Part III is after above 2 are done call and ask how many dollars I have available towards purchasing from them.

So I dont know what I will do until tomorrow. If the inventory is NOT  good for my pretty short term wants Im out.  If Inventory is good, I will use the vacations and then start playing around in parts II and III.  At that point im only wasting my time, not my money.

But, I will be asking my personal booking agent (which is absurd) about II and III tomorrow.  They may be able to answer me right then.


----------



## TSGuest2017 (Apr 23, 2017)

raygo123 said:


> That's funny.
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my RCT6873W42 using Tapatalk



Its ONLY excluded for me for applying THIS contracts purchases to Presidential Reserve.  Which is the exact reason I truly think there is a shot they will let me buy more points under this Discovery Agreement and apply them to a VIP Owner purchase. If they wouldnt allow it, why is only that one level in writing saying I cant apply my points purchases to that level ownership?

So in other words, if by some slim chance I can buy in using purchases of points (my credits) I could only go to platinum level with my credits. After that, i would have to buy the difference in points from Platinum to Presidential reserve once Im an owner.


----------



## cayman01 (Apr 23, 2017)

TSGuest2017 said:


> Its ONLY excluded for me for applying THIS contracts purchases to Presidential Reserve.  Which is the exact reason I truly think there is a shot they will let me buy more points under this Discovery Agreement and apply them to a VIP Owner purchase. If they wouldnt allow it, why is only that one level in writing saying I cant apply my points purchases to that level ownership?
> 
> So in other words, if by some slim chance I can buy in using purchases of points (my credits) I could only go to platinum level with my credits. After that, i would have to buy the difference in points from Platinum to Presidential reserve once Im an owner.



They are not going to let you keep buying points, renting them, and then applying the cost towards a permanent VIP account. In the end you are going to end up with a TEMPORARY VIP account that will expire after so many years. That is the question you need to ask tomorrow, and then see it in writing that it is PERMANENT VIP status for the $25k price . Dollars to donuts you don't get it. These guys lie like rugs.


----------



## cayman01 (Apr 23, 2017)

TSGuest2017 said:


> Well, of course they do and they have every right to sell them to anyone. I just dont think nor do I get the impression that is their focus anymore. I get the impression they are trying to make current owners life way more difficult and rent the units themselves. and they could care less what anyone in Discovery does with those rentals as long as it covers their costs.
> 
> I personally think its a conflict of interest for them to have both these programs at the same time, I find it very odd they are so willingly taking units off anyones hands if they dont have some financial gain like this to do so, and on top of that I personally get the feeling they are holding back OWNERS inventory that legally they probably shouldnt.
> 
> ...



They care about your $3k. It helps pay the bills. The salesmen get some cash, and then maybe you come back and buy from Wyndham after your Discovery period. Its an investment by Wyndham that YOU pay for.

People are buying PLENTY from them. They wouldn't be taking back deeds if they weren't. Those Ovation contracts more than likely have HIGH maintenance fees and Wyndham wouldn't be taking them back if they couldn't get rid of them quickly . They don't want to pay the fees any more than the previous owner did.


----------



## Bigrob (Apr 23, 2017)

tschwa2 said:


> You can't.  If you buy in with the credit from your discovery package you won't be eligible for another non owner package like discovery.  Owners can't take a discovery package.  As mentioned your $18,000 won't even get you a fifth of the way to VIP.



Actually, some time ago, there was an ability for current owners to also add a Discovery Package. That may no longer be possible, but Ron P. and I had a contact some time ago that had offered it to us. The terms were very much similar to what the OP has described with some of the same hooks (everything you put into it can be rolled into a purchase, etc.)

That being said, I didn't end up pulling the trigger, but it was something that was possible at the time. This was over a year ago though.


----------



## TSGuest2017 (Apr 24, 2017)

Bigrob said:


> Actually, some time ago, there was an ability for current owners to also add a Discovery Package. That may no longer be possible, but Ron P. and I had a contact some time ago that had offered it to us. The terms were very much similar to what the OP has described with some of the same hooks (everything you put into it can be rolled into a purchase, etc.)
> 
> That being said, I didn't end up pulling the trigger, but it was something that was possible at the time. This was over a year ago though.



Right. trust me guys and gals.....I GET that these people lie any time their mouths move or at least word it to where you dont get the full truth.  But Im pretty good at getting and finding the best deals, and Im telling you, something is "off" here and to me it seems like the only one benefiting is Wyndham. And IF the people who sign up for the "try before you buy" know how to use it, they MAY be able to work this system to a better advantage.

I will update tomorrow with more details.  I just really think there is more to this than owners are being told.


----------



## TSGuest2017 (Apr 24, 2017)

cayman01 said:


> They are not going to let you keep buying points, renting them, and then applying the cost towards a permanent VIP account. In the end you are going to end up with a TEMPORARY VIP account that will expire after so many years. That is the question you need to ask tomorrow, and then see it in writing that it is PERMANENT VIP status for the $25k price . Dollars to donuts you don't get it. These guys lie like rugs.



No, I DO get it and Im perfectly fine with a temporary VIP for the $3,000 I paid IF and ONLY if I can use them for the two vacations I want. If not I will cancel.  So Im fine with it unless the availability isnt there which is why i bought it. 

But in the research Ive done and just talking to them, I am pretty sure I can keep rolling this to achieve VIP status for little cost out of my own pocket. IF i even want that when that time rolls around.  Worst case I am out some time.

Im leaning towards not ever wanting it if nobody as an owner is clear on this stuff even existing and what it could really mean for them. Because Im not sure I ever want to be in that position even if i somehow could achieve this status for little of my own $.


----------



## TSGuest2017 (Apr 24, 2017)

It just seems to me two things are at play here

1)They would LOVE for anyone to buy from them if they can charge 14-17% interest rate which THAT is where they make money from Owners. And the sales guy actually admitted that to me.  And then when that person can no longer afford the payments and/or wants out of the maintenance they work a deal to take it off their hands for nect to nothing. WHY?  No other business I know of does shit like that.

2) If individual is against #1 due to the high interest rate, they offer up the world to get your money to cover their maintenance fees at some point later down the line.

Because I refused to apply for anything and never gave them my social security number.  But when they said "well, we need it to see what you qualify for to offer you the best deal"....in which case i simply provided proof I wouldnt have any problems paying cash from my bank account and showed them I could pay their maintenance fees no problem. And at that point they offer me this program to bank any purchases under the "Try Before you Buy" to a later purchase.

They either want owners to pay high interest rates OR be well qualified to support their maintenance fees.  And if the latter is better, perhaps better perks to buy in? 

I would be curious to find out how many people are paying the high interest rates and struggle with the maintenance fees and if so if Wyndham takes them off their hands to offer to someone like me or well qualified  owners they have no problems getting all their maintenance fees paid timely.  And in the meantime, the non-VIP members are getting screwed over on the availability of what they want and should be able to use their points for and suspending accounts to make it difficult for owners to rent their units out. 

Seems very very strange to me


----------



## tschwa2 (Apr 24, 2017)

Wyndham has actually done quite nicely over the last 3 years taking inventory back for $0 from people who have completely paid off there $20,000-$100,000+ purchases  (principle and interest) who simply decided they don't want to deal with the $2000-$15,000 annual MF anymore.  Taking that inventory and selling it to new and existing owners again for $20,000+ per 120,000 points.


----------



## TSGuest2017 (Apr 24, 2017)

tschwa2 said:


> Wyndham has actually done quite nicely over the last 3 years taking inventory back for $0 from people who have completely paid off there $20,000-$100,000+ purchases  (principle and interest) who simply decided they don't want to deal with the $2000-$15,000 annual MF anymore.  Taking that inventory and selling it to new and existing owners again for $20,000+ per 120,000 points.



I hate that for the people that paid that. That really sucks for them


----------



## tschwa2 (Apr 24, 2017)

DRI is doing the same thing but to make it even a little worse they are charging owners $299 for each fully paid deed they accept back.


----------



## TSGuest2017 (Apr 24, 2017)

tschwa2 said:


> DRI is doing the same thing but to make it even a little worse they are charging owners $299 for each fully paid deed they accept back.



Well, for owners who were just raped for years and years paying that high interest rate and struggling to pay the maintenance fees and then on top of that not even having a good selection of weeks to use their points, I would say most people would be loving any way out of the headaches these companies put them in. It seems to me they only care about the high level owners and the rest are just "placeholders" for them until then next one comes along.  Its really a depressing picture to look at.  

And the more and more I think about it, I would have no issues at all taking advantage of Wyndham. But I get the impression it takes from owners but everyone seems to argue with me saying no it doesnt, its a whole other pool of inventory and doesnt affect their ownership. I would participate if thats the case. i just truly have a gut feeling it isnt.


----------



## DazedandConfused (Apr 24, 2017)

I am NOT a Wyndham, but I did read this entire thread and it really is a strange thread with no definitive answer either way. I am not sure I will keep on reading, so good luck TSGuest2017 as you appear to need it.


----------



## paxsarah (Apr 24, 2017)

TSGuest2017 said:


> I hate that for the people that paid that. That really sucks for them



Yes, and_ that's_ how Wyndham is screwing their owners. Not with the Discovery program, which doesn't have an appreciable impact on the rest of us in any way.


----------



## ronparise (Apr 24, 2017)

TSGuest2017 said:


> Well, for owners who were just raped for years and years paying that high interest rate and struggling to pay the maintenance fees and then on top of that not even having a good selection of weeks to use their points, I would say most people would be loving any way out of the headaches these companies put them in. It seems to me they only care about the high level owners and the rest are just "placeholders" for them until then next one comes along.  Its really a depressing picture to look at.
> 
> And the more and more I think about it, I would have no issues at all taking advantage of Wyndham. But I get the impression it takes from owners but everyone seems to argue with me saying no it doesnt, its a whole other pool of inventory and doesnt affect their ownership. I would participate if thats the case. i just truly have a gut feeling it isnt.



I think I finally understand your concern. You think discovery point you get somehow take something away from the rest of us

It dosent and here's why:  there is no difference between a discovery sale and a regular sale, either way a new owner gets points that were held by Wyndham and now gets to use them for reservations.  And either way nothing has been taken from me

And when you say Wyndham only cares about the high level owners vs the little guy. That's wrong too. Wyndham makes the bulk of their money from timeshare sales not maintennance fees or management fees. And they  make about 2/3 of their sales to existing owners (upsales) vs 1/3 to new buyers   Those new buyers are important because they are tomorrow's upsales. Now here my point a happy owner with 105000 points is more likely to buy more than a big owner. The big owner is obviously happy, at least in wyndhams eyes. Look at how much time they stay at the resort; they must like us. The small owner is the more likely buyer, they have to be kept happy or made happy. All thes new rules are designed to screw the big guy and make more inventory available to the little guy

Not to mention the ongoing suspension issue. That thing really screwed some big owners


----------



## CO skier (Apr 24, 2017)

TSGuest2017 said:


> I dont know what to think as I dont have any access to inventory. But I would for sure be willing to check tomorrow if anyone wants to send me a hard to get destination and week.


Try for a week in a 2 BR Deluxe Oceanview at Kauai Beach Villas.  I had no trouble reserving 3 days in one of those units at 10 months and could have reserved a week, if I wanted it.

When you can't get anything there, ask for anything in Hawaii at any time, and see what you are offered.  If you can book something, maybe at Ka EO Kai during the slower season, that might make the Discovery package worth something.

I doubt they will find anything in Hawaii for you, and definitely not anything for a discount.


----------



## ilya (Apr 24, 2017)

DazedandConfused said:


> I am NOT a Wyndham, but I did read this entire thread and it really is a strange thread with no definitive answer either way. I am not sure I will keep on reading, so good luck TSGuest2017 as you appear to need it.




I agree. This post has the undertone  that it was meant to irritate and/or see reactions of owners  rather than gain valuable information. As with other posts, a very good marketing tools for Wyndham. [Political comment removed.] That's why I read and don't post much. People rather debate posts like this until the cows come home rather then help someone who wants real help and advise.


----------



## Jan M. (Apr 24, 2017)

I may have missed a response about the limited availability of inventory for discovery point bookings. It has been quite a while since we had a discovery package so they could have changed things since then but I distinctly remember there being restrictions on what and when I could book with those discovery points.


----------



## dagger1 (Apr 24, 2017)

TSGuest2017, I am the last person to comment intelligently on your purchase of a Wyndham Discovery Package, I hope you enjoy it.  Per your comments above, I don't feel like I have been screwed by Wyndham at all.  I purchased almost 1.1M points resale on eBay for only a little more than your $3K purchase.  We have been on two vacations already (points all closed by the end of February,) to Las Cascada in San Antonio and Avenue Plaza in New Orleans.  Both wonderful facilities with great people working there.  We have vacations planned for National Harbor, Riverside Suites, Flagstaff, Sedona, Durango, Taos, Old Town Alexandria, La Belle Maison, and Bonnet Creek to fill out the rest of this year.  We use our points, bought them to travel to unique locations, and plan to never be in the rental business.  We like timeshares because we always book 1 BR's, and many times need 2BR's and will use 2 x 3 BR's at Bonnet Creek this Christmas.  My point is that even without any VIP benefits, we have been very successful in getting what we want when we want it.  And we are not forced to stay in hotel rooms!!!  I'm sure some "developer" point owners feel unhappy about the price they paid, but for some of them, especially the Gold and Platinum VIP's, the benefits and perks they get make up for the purchase price.  Many have added PIC points and used other techniques to gain VIP status, and have been rewarded for their knowledge on how to get this done.
My point is that we are very happy with Wyndham, don't feel "screwed", and would buy "resale" tomorrow again without hesitation.  Good luck with your Discovery Package.


----------



## Sandy VDH (Apr 24, 2017)

TSGuest2017, as many have posted here the Discovery package is not a bad deal.  But I think they are just trying to level set your expectations of converting a temporary Discovery Package VIP status into a permanent VIP status.  If you are able to accomplish it, then more power to you.

I will speak for myself, and other here may agree.  I love the Wyndham product.  I HATE HATE HATE the Wyndham sales team and tactics.  But for any timeshare to be available as a resale, someone had to buy it from the Developer in the first place.  Not everyone finds TUG before that happens and we have either felt that pain ourselves and learned from it, or at least have some empathy for the ones bought retail.  But anyone that is still here on tug, is making Lemonade out of Lemons.  Be it either through getting better use out of their timeshare $$ spend, or adding resale purchases and bringing their average cost of purchase down.

In any case I would say if you have to finance a timeshare purchase, you shouldn't be purchasing it.  If you can't afford the lump sum (developer or resale) don't buy it.  It is not an investment, per say.  It is an investment in attempting to ensure you take future vacations.  But clearly that does not work in a lot of cases, because there are a lot of timeshare owners who pay MFs but never use their weeks/points.  That is shame, but you usually don't find those types here on TUG.

But purchase price, developer or resale, is only part of the cost.  Ongoing MFs are going to be what you need to consider long term not short term.

You are also proposing renting, as you yourself have rented from other owners.  There are several of use here that do rent, and renting is not always as easy as it appears.  You need the right product, right price and you need to find the right customer.  As a renter wanting to pickup a week it is easy, you look up a rental site, find the week you want and contract someone.  For those that do rent, it is not always so easy.  Others can chime in.  Competition renting Wyndham weeks is high, there are a lot of rentals to chose from, so you need to do better on price, or get a regular set of clients. Calls and contacts are flaky, some call you back, a lot don't, people change their minds. People don't want to pay the price you are offering and want you to discount it.  It is easier to have a solid customer base that comes back and rents from you everytime, but you only have a short window to establish that.

With the changes coming in the next month at Wyndham which we don't exactly know how they have implemented things, some of those previous tactics to get low rental rates may no longer be valid, we don't yet.  So you have an unknown you are now projecting into.

So I don't think you are hurting yourself or screwing current owners with a Discovery Package.  It is a try it before you buy it.  And Wyndham wants it to work well, so people do buy.  Do you blame them, it is their job as sales to do that.  So try it and enjoy it, and as you said at worst case you would have spent $3K on accommodations anyway.   I would love it if you found a new loophole to get a permanent VIP status, but at the costs that Wyndham charges for a permanent VIP, they will make it difficult.

Enjoy.


----------



## Braindead (Apr 24, 2017)

Sandy VDH 

Your post deserves more than a like.

Awesome post

Thanks


----------



## TSGuest2017 (Apr 24, 2017)

Well, although my last minute availability isn't available I have confirmed the following:

1) I can purchase more points under this contract over the next 2 1/2 years and all purchases count as money Ive paid wyndham directly to be applied to a purchase.

2) I do not have to be present at any bookings I make although i DO have to pay the $129 fee for a guest.

So I will try out my vacation for the $3k and play it out and see how I feel. worst case I use it and enjoy it and walk away.

Thanks for everyones opinions and help. I too lie like their product. just not a fan of their management style and sales team


----------



## TSGuest2017 (Apr 24, 2017)

And the availability isnt THAT bad. Just not in May like I had hoped. Which I knew was a long shot


----------



## LisaH (Apr 24, 2017)

Good luck and have fun with your Discovery Package.


----------



## wjappraise (Apr 24, 2017)

TSGuest2017 said:


> Well, although my last minute availability isn't available I have confirmed the following:
> 
> 1) I can purchase more points under this contract over the next 2 1/2 years and all purchases count as money Ive paid wyndham directly to be applied to a purchase.
> 
> ...



Have a great trip and enjoy.  The resorts are by far the best thing about Wyndham.


----------



## TSnewbie2017 (Apr 29, 2017)

TSGuest2017 said:


> Well, although my last minute availability isn't available I have confirmed the following:
> 
> 1) I can purchase more points under this contract over the next 2 1/2 years and all purchases count as money Ive paid wyndham directly to be applied to a purchase.
> 
> ...


First of all, dear TUG members please note that my nickname and poster name is a pure coincidence...and I got attention to this thread when somebody pointed at it on my different topic thread... Second, dear TSguest, it's clear to me that it's only a good deal for Wyn, not customers. I happened to buy the same Discovery product and see no benefit at all even to enjoy a vacation. I'm still trying to appeal their deny in my rescission within my rescission period (that tells u already a lot about the company practice of doing business and following the contract.)...in case I loose that battle and be stuck w/ Discovery, keep us posted how the program benefited you...at this time I see it as a big rip off compare if I'd just rented something else on my own.


----------



## raytheyounger (May 16, 2017)

TSnewbie2017 said:


> First of all, dear TUG members please note that my nickname and poster name is a pure coincidence...and I got attention to this thread when somebody pointed at it on my different topic thread... Second, dear TSguest, it's clear to me that it's only a good deal for Wyn, not customers. I happened to buy the same Discovery product and see no benefit at all even to enjoy a vacation. I'm still trying to appeal their deny in my rescission within my rescission period (that tells u already a lot about the company practice of doing business and following the contract.)...in case I loose that battle and be stuck w/ Discovery, keep us posted how the program benefited you...at this time I see it as a big rip off compare if I'd just rented something else on my own.



TSnewbie2017, I'm curious as to why you consider the Discovery program a ripoff.  I recently rented points for the first time.  I bypassed the "parking pass" desk, but I forgot to unplug the phone.  When they called, I was genuinely interested in finding out more about the program, but had zero interest in buying.  After saying "no" multiple times, they offered the Discovery program.  The cost per point in the Discovery program is about 30% higher than what I paid for my week by renting.  While 30% is not insignificant, I wouldn't define it as a ripoff.  I thought I received a pretty good deal when renting, but maybe not as good as you have gotten.

Can you elaborate as to why you consider the Discovery program a ripoff?


----------



## Cheryl20772 (May 17, 2017)

tschwa2 said:


> You can't.  If you buy in with the credit from your discovery package you won't be eligible for another non owner package like discovery.  Owners can't take a discovery package.  As mentioned your $18,000 won't even get you a fifth of the way to VIP.


I am VIP Silver and have purchased a Discovery package while owning. Just go to a presentation and tell them no over and over. Their final twist is to try and get you to buy a Discovery package and preserve what they offered in case you change your mind.


----------



## needhelp (May 23, 2017)

ilya said:


> I agree. This post has the undertone  that it was meant to irritate and/or see reactions of owners  rather than gain valuable information. As with other posts, a very good marketing tools for Wyndham. [Political comment removed.] That's why I read and don't post much. People rather debate posts like this until the cows come home rather then help someone who wants real help and advise.


I have found the members of TUG to be very helpful. I think all the replies here are trying to be helpful, although the original post can be viewed as disrespectful. As with anything everyone doesnt always agree, but that is to be expected.


----------

