# Marriott Mole here in Tug



## billymach4 (Apr 25, 2012)

There have been a few new guests here that seem to spin Marriott in a positive light. The language is well written much like a PR professional would apply to a press release. 

We all know that Marriott reads TUG, as well as other industry experts. Marriott has also made somewhat of an official post here in the past. 

I am not here to bash any individual, or Marriott. I do believe Marriott does have a good product. 

My point is that if what I suspect is true, then Marriott has surreptitiously placed a voice here in TUG. I have no proof, and I have no way of proving this. Just a hunch.

The individual(s) may not even be sanctioned by Marriott at all. Just a dedicated Marriott individual?

Just want to know how other long time independent TUG members feel about this?


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## dioxide45 (Apr 25, 2012)

I see no real reason for starting this topic except to cause a ruckus.


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## jimf41 (Apr 25, 2012)

dioxide45 said:


> I see no real reason for starting this topic except to cause a ruckus.



Agree 100%.


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## SueDonJ (Apr 25, 2012)

So all it takes for somebody to be accused of being a Marriott plant, is for that person to use proper english and generally-accepted marketing phrases while praising Marriott?

   I think it's about time for the folks who are making these accusations, to start naming names.  Otherwise this is just ruckus-raising noise, like Dioxide says.


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## billymach4 (Apr 25, 2012)

We are providing Marriott with a free marketing survey. In turn our independent thoughts and opinions may well be leveraged for Marriotts self serving purpose. I am just sharing my thoughts and not singling anyone out?

What is the problem?


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## billymach4 (Apr 25, 2012)

SueDonJ said:


> I think it's about time for the folks who are making these accusations, to start naming names.  Otherwise this is just ruckus-raising noise, like Dioxide says.



You are advising me to break the rules here?


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## SueDonJ (Apr 25, 2012)

billymach4 said:


> You are advising me to break the rules here?



Is there a rule that says you can't name an accused?


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## SueDonJ (Apr 25, 2012)

Regardless, here's what I think from an earlier post:



> But I will NEVER understand the TUG weirdness that is the Marriott-employee accusation. Here will come somebody with a new thought, a different take, that's not a Marriott-bash and out of nowhere somebody inevitably posts, "what Marriott office do YOU work at?" WHAT?! I don't get it. For one thing, Marriott has sold hundreds of thousands of timeshare weeks and the overwhelming majority of owners are happy enough with their purchases. (If they weren't, they'd all be here to complain.   ) But for another, there are plenty of TUG regulars who ARE happy Marriott owners - aren't we proof enough that you don't have to work for Marriott to like them?! And finally, anybody who thinks that any Marriott employees have been given carte blanche to post unguardedly to TUG in an unofficial capacity must be living on another planet. In this day and age, NO company gives their employees that freedom. And we've seen what happens to Marriott employees who do come here on the sly - they post up a storm, usually with all good intentions but invariably getting something wrong, and then disappear never to be heard from again.


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## EKniager (Apr 25, 2012)

The are communists here too and I'll name names!  (LOL!):hysterical:


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## SueDonJ (Apr 25, 2012)

EKniager said:


> The are communists here too and I'll name names!  (LOL!):hysterical:



Federalists.  That's my hill to die on.  If there are Federalists here, I AM GONE!  <hmmmppphh, huff, stomp>


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## dioxide45 (Apr 25, 2012)

SueDonJ said:


> Regardless, here's what I think from an earlier post:



Sure you didn't mean to use the word Irregardless?


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## SueDonJ (Apr 25, 2012)

Billymach, seriously, if you meant this in all seriousness ... I don't have a problem with Marriott reading here and using us as a marketing tool.  What we say here really doesn't matter because Marriott is going to do what makes the most sense to protect its bottom line, but if we're giving them our honest opinions then the possibility exists for us to get a better product.

I don't have a problem, either, with Marriott planting someone here in an official "secret" capacity in order to play up the product.  We're a pretty smart bunch - if whatever a Marriott plant says is the truth and not an embellished misrepresentation of the product, then we'll figure out on our own whether or not the product works for us individually.

I do have a problem with Marriott employees posting here in an unofficial capacity - I've yet to see one who is correct in what s/he posts.  I'm convinced that the Marriott employees who do have authorization to read here are able to track down those rogue posters and stop them.  And I hope they continue to track them down - the last thing TUG needs is more Marriott misinformation.


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## SueDonJ (Apr 25, 2012)

dioxide45 said:


> Sure you didn't mean to use the word Irregardless?



Ha Ha.  Funny.  :rofl:


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## Quilter (Apr 25, 2012)

billymach4 said:


> I am not here to bash any individual, or Marriott. I do believe Marriott does have a good product.
> 
> My point is that if what I suspect is true, then Marriott has surreptitiously placed a voice here in TUG. I have no proof, and I have no way of proving this. Just a hunch.
> 
> The individual may not even be sanctioned by Marriott at all. Just a dedicated Marriott individual?



So you're saying you don't know who to blame, or even if there is someone to blame, or what to blame them for.  Right?

What's the point of starting a thread?   Is there someone you don't like?   Then just don't pay them any attention.   This is a BBS.   Highly unlikely you'll like everyone.


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## Passepartout (Apr 25, 2012)

TUG is a public forum. Anybody can participate. Including RCI, Wyndham, Mayan, various exchange personnel, and on and on. The only private forum is a Wyndham group that is by invitation- that I know of.

What was it Groucho said?...." I wouldn't belong to any outfit that'd have ME for a member."

Keep the words you type sweet, because you may have to eat them.

Jim


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## billymach4 (Apr 25, 2012)

SueDonJ said:


> Billymach, seriously, if you meant this in all seriousness ... I don't have a problem with Marriott reading here and using us as a marketing tool.  What we say here really doesn't matter because Marriott is going to do what makes the most sense to protect its bottom line, but if we're giving them our honest opinions then the possibility exists for us to get a better product.
> 
> I don't have a problem, either, with Marriott planting someone here in an official "secret" capacity in order to play up the product.  We're a pretty smart bunch - if whatever a Marriott plant says is the truth and not an embellished misrepresentation of the product, then we'll figure out on our own whether or not the product works for us individually.
> 
> I do have a problem with Marriott employees posting here in an unofficial capacity - I've yet to see one who is correct in what s/he posts.  I'm convinced that the Marriott employees who do have authorization to read here are able to track down those rogue posters and stop them.  And I hope they continue to track them down - the last thing TUG needs is more Marriott misinformation.




I am indeed sincere and honest in my post. Thank you for your thoughts, this is the type of feedback I am looking to receive.


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## billymach4 (Apr 25, 2012)

There is no one individual I have a problem with. However as others have said this is a public forum. Often during the day I will browse as a guest to see what is going on while in the office. 

So if I can see everything here, and if others can join as guests, then it is easy to plant oneself as a biased authority in an official capacity.

Basically I want everyone here to be aware that some opinions might be tainted. However I have been here long enough to know who is a dedicated TUG person, and who is not.


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## Beefnot (Apr 25, 2012)

I believe Fractional Traveler is a mole, if that's what you want to call it.  Nice enough guy, I don't have a problem with him.  Probably a Marriott employee, not necessarily in an official capacity, and entitled to his opinion.  As long as he is not purporting to represent Mariott's business model, but is only posting as a consumer, then I don't see why they would shut him down.  His posts are informative as well as favorable to Marriott.


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## GregT (Apr 25, 2012)

Beefnot said:


> I believe Fractional Traveler is a mole, if that's what you want to call it



FT may be passionate but I don't believe he's a mole.   I googled him (sorry FT) when he transferred me his Trust points.  I think he's a software programmer type who lives in Florida -- and simply loves his Marriott.

If only we had Joe McCarthy here to help us.....

Best,

Greg


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## KathyPet (Apr 25, 2012)

I agree with Greg T.  I think our newest poster is just a very happy Marriott owner.  He has been nice and agreeable so I have no beef.  He even offered to check availability for TUGGERS using his DC points.  I think that was nice of him so until proven otherwise I prefer to believe he is just a happy Marriott owner.


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## Beefnot (Apr 25, 2012)

KathyPet said:


> I agree with Greg T.  I think our newest poster is just a very happy Marriott owner.  He has been nice and agreeable so I have no beef.  He even offered to check availability for TUGGERS using his DC points.  I think that was nice of him so until proven otherwise I prefer to believe he is just a happy Marriott owner.



He shows excellent restraint in not choosing to directly dispel these salacious notions here or in other threads that they have been raised.  Must be some serious chi.


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## csalter2 (Apr 26, 2012)

*Can't Worry or Be Happy*

I have found that misery loves company on these boards. People use them as complaning therapy. 

It does not make a difference what timeshare company they own. Disney is regarded as a good one and people complain there. 

I love both of my timeshares. Marriott and Diamond Resorts. I have one legacy week at Ko Olina and will join the points program in June and several Diamond points in which I could stay for a whole lot of weeks. I use them and enjoy them with my family and friends. I still feel I get a good deal. 

I am going to post another thread about something that I don't think I have seen discussed but could be either good or bad depending on how you look at it. 

Nevertheless, I love my timeshares and am proud to say it, and I am not a mole.


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## BocaBoy (Apr 26, 2012)

Why not just get out the heavy artillery and accuse me again?  It would only be the third time.  Can I plead double jeopardy?  (I am not suggesting that I am the OP's target this time.)  Apparently my grave mistake a couple of years ago that supposedly blew my cover was being a new poster and not bashing Marriott in every post.  Accusatory posts like this are very low class.  I guess if you have an agenda and no facts to back it up, just make up the facts you need.


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## GregT (Apr 26, 2012)

BocaBoy said:


> I guess if you have an agenda and no facts to back it up, just make up the facts you need.



What's the expression on sleeping dogs?


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## Beefnot (Apr 26, 2012)

BocaBoy said:


> Why not just get out the heavy artillery and accuse me again?  It would only be the third time.  Can I plead double jeopardy?  (I am not suggesting that I am the OP's target this time.)  Apparently my grave mistake a couple of years ago that supposedly blew my cover was being a new poster and not bashing Marriott in every post.  Accusatory posts like this are very low class.  I guess if you have an agenda and no facts to back it up, just make up the facts you need.



You need FractionalTraveler's chi.  Because we all now know that FT could not possibly, no way no how, be a mole either, without him ever having had to say a word.


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## scrapngen (Apr 26, 2012)

Beefnot said:


> You need FractionalTraveler's chi.  Because we all now know that FT could not possibly, no way no how, be a mole either, without him ever having had to say a word.



:hysterical: :hysterical: :hysterical:


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## answeeney (Apr 26, 2012)

I actually hope that Marriott does have a mole (or even several) on this site. That way they get some feedback on  the desires and what does and doesn't work for TUG members and, maybe, just maybe, that will feed through into positive changes.

Marriott moles spreading disinformation is of course another matter but then I figure there are too many knowledgeable participants for that to work.


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## dioxide45 (Apr 26, 2012)

If those guests just paid the $15 to join TUG and get the "Guest" moniker off of their username, it would wash them of the Marriott Mole or Apologist title?

Truly if someone was a mole, they would probably try to fit in more and pay the $15 to blend in and try to be less noticeable. Just like resale vs. developer, there seems to be an issue between Guest and TUG Member for some here.


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## rpk113 (Apr 26, 2012)

*Thanks Folks*

I needed a good laugh..  

Perhaps we can all sit down and make some Marriott Guaca-MOLE...  Sorry bad Austin Powers joke, had to be done..


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## EZ-ED (Apr 26, 2012)

I am wondering why Marriott would bother. There is no way a mole would increase the value of the Marriott brand since Marriott has spun off the timeshare business and now just collects a flat fee for the use of the Marriott name. 

Could there be a Spinco_guaca_:hysterical: mole???


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## wuv pooh (Apr 26, 2012)

And here I thought OP was a mole for another developer trying to plant bad mojo about Marriott to help their business   .  Or maybe a resale broker trying to drum up business.

This internet intrigue thing is just too hard for me to figure


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## gblotter (Apr 26, 2012)

My comments from a different thread ...



			
				gblotter said:
			
		

> I have no doubt that Marriott is aware of TUG and reads this forum.
> There are even rare postings from people who identify themselves as Marriott employees.
> I welcome Marriott participation here on TUG.
> I wish we had more of it - I think it would be very helpful to these discussions.
> I just don't appreciate the stealth approach from posers however - I find it insulting.



There is TUG user "MVCI/Orlando" who posted only once in 2009 but continues to monitor (last logged in March 21, 2012).

There is TUG user "MVCI Customer Advocate" who has posted twice, but likely still lurks around (last logged in April 18, 2012).

There is TUG user "Sales Executive" who posted 8 times on January 29, 2012 and then quickly disappeared (likely warned away by his bosses at Marriott).

And let us not forget our good friend "Fletch" (former Marriott sales guy who is still active here on TUG).


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## SueDonJ (Apr 26, 2012)

gblotter said:


> My comments from a different thread ...
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Okay, so you're not a mole, but you sure must be a superduper spy for somebody.  It's time to spill the beans, you're surrounded.


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## billymach4 (Apr 26, 2012)

gblotter said:


> My comments from a different thread ...
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Good work!

By the way. Fletch is not a mole. He is way above board and has fully disclosed his history. In fact I am going to meet Fletch next month at Ocean Pointe, and I am looking forward to our meeting.


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## carl2591 (Apr 26, 2012)

rpk113 said:


> I needed a good laugh..
> 
> Perhaps we can all sit down and make some Marriott Guaca-MOLE...  Sorry bad Austin Powers joke, had to be done..



actually it marriott guacamoleeeee....  

i don't own Marriott, have family members that do own in Hilton head.. they love the resort barony and stay each year in nov.. what bumms they out and i know this is true for most resorts, you pay the same MF for a off season silver week and the people that own high platinum weeks. 

now the difference could be in original pricing.. silver $12K.. vs. platinum week 30K  not sure myself. 

when the MIL goes in first week nov the place is full according to her.. go figure but it still considered silver and does not trade well with II..


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## Old Hickory (Apr 27, 2012)

SueDonJ said:


> So all it takes for somebody to be accused of being a Marriott plant, is for that person to use proper english and generally-accepted marketing phrases while praising Marriott?



Oooo!  Name me!  Name me!    

I would love to be accused of using proper english, writing clever phrases, and having a positive attitude/optimism.


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## Saintsfanfl (Apr 27, 2012)

So what if I am a mole? What is wrong with it? Buying Marriott resales can be a good deal so why shouldn't I tell everyone? 

Go play with your points and leave me alone...


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## taffy19 (Apr 27, 2012)

SueDonJ said:


> Federalists. That's my hill to die on. If there are Federalists here, I AM GONE! <hmmmppphh, huff, stomp>


:hysterical:

I heard some time ago that some people are required to read it so it gives them a pulse as they report on it.  I mentioned TUG yesterday to our saleslady but she had never heard of it and even mispronounced it.  She asked the Manager and he had, of course.  He didn't make any comments but I saw his face or reaction.  We went on an update yesterday which was a good experience.


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## jlf58 (Apr 27, 2012)

Bill,

I will be splitting the week with the kids, I will be there Mon-Thursday, good looking bald guy (shaved my head) .. with skinny wife  


I have been called many things but never a mole . By defintion, how the heck could I be a mole when I posted both times, when  I joined a TS company. FUNNY !! 



billymach4 said:


> Good work!
> 
> By the way. Fletch is not a mole. He is way above board and has fully disclosed his history. In fact I am going to meet Fletch next month at Ocean Pointe, and I am looking forward to our meeting.


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## Beefnot (Apr 27, 2012)

SueDonJ said:


> I do have a problem with Marriott employees posting here in an unofficial capacity - I've yet to see one who is correct in what s/he posts.  I'm convinced that the Marriott employees who do have authorization to read here are able to track down those rogue posters and stop them.  And I hope they continue to track them down - the last thing TUG needs is more Marriott misinformation.



Any new introspections?  Are you okay with Marriott employees posting in an unofficial, undisclosed capacity, so long as they are not posting misinformation?


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## SueDonJ (Apr 27, 2012)

Beefnot said:


> Any new introspections?  Are you okay with Marriott employees posting in an unofficial, undisclosed capacity, so long as they are not posting misinformation?



Nope, no change in what I said. 

I welcome the Marriott employees who have been given the authority to read and post here in an official capacity, like MVCI Customer Advocate, because I think the forum can only be improved by an official Marriott presence.  On the off chance that they get something wrong, I would expect Marriott to honor what they've gotten wrong (like what happened on Flyertalk a couple years ago with the Rollover Nights misinformation posted by MarriottConcierge, their official rep.)

Any other Marriott employees who decide on their own to read and post while telling us that they're Marriott employees (like that brightest bulb a few weeks ago?)  Well, first thing, I'm pretty sure that when their superiors find out about it they'll be gone.  But aside from that, if what they post is not correct, I have no doubt we TUGgers will be able to set them straight soon enough.  Like I said, we're a smart bunch.  Certainly none of us is so jaded as to fall hook, line and sinker for anything that's posted just because the poster claims to work for Marriott.

The true moles that you seem to be on a crusade to unearth, the ones who are supposedly Marriott employees here on a mission who will never admit their true corporate identity?  They're simply inconsequential.  If they don't admit to being Marriott employees, then obviously they won't try to state that they are an official voice of the company.  That leaves them in the same position as the rest of us, TUG posters who sometimes get it wrong but are lucky enough to be here where what's correct is eventually learned.  By all of us.

Honestly, I just don't understand the cynicism that leads you (and others) to automatically think that anyone who has managed to make good use of the talking points that Marriott uses to sell their timeshares, is a Marriott mole.  Sometimes it seems like a few TUGgers are so stridently anti-developer that they've lost all ability to reason.  For example, this jones you have for FT is so odd, IMO.  Is it really beyond all realm of possibility that he was told by his Marriott rep that he could use his timeshares in a certain way, and he's happy to report that his rep was entirely correct?  He's said many times that he's familiar with the Marriott Insiders online forum - I think he's simply familiar with Marriott timeshares through his ownership over the years, and his time on that MI forum prepared him to dive right into TUG when he found it.

Besides, FT has gotten a few things incorrect.   

As far as Fletch?  When he was still working for Marriott he made it very clear which of his posts were his own opinion and which could be taken as official policy.  He didn't troll the TUG membership rolls for new blood (at least as far as I know, and I think I've been around long enough that I would have heard rumblings if it was happening.)  In between his positions with Marriott and now DVC, he posted up a storm but for none of it did he claim to be an official TUG liaison for either of them.  And now that he's with DVC, he's back to posting very rarely to impart general timeshare knowledge that can apply to a lot of companies.  Fletch is the last person I'd call a mole.


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## Beefnot (Apr 27, 2012)

SueDonJ said:


> Nope, no change in what I said.
> 
> I welcome the Marriott employees who have been given the authority to read and post here in an official capacity, like MVCI Customer Advocate, because I think the forum can only be improved by an official Marriott presence.  On the off chance that they get something wrong, I would expect Marriott to honor what they've gotten wrong (like what happened on Flyertalk a couple years ago with the Rollover Nights misinformation posted by MarriottConcierge, their official rep.)
> 
> ...



I dont think Fletch is a mole. I find it very curious though that when it comes to FT, many jump to his defense without him not so much as letting out a peep to confirm or dispel the rumors.  Actually, it is more than curious, it is amazing that no one else finds it curious.  My estimation is that he is on TUG in an unofficial or unsanctioned capacity, and does not know the inner workings of the program. Of course he can clear things up himself if he would like.  Now, in the whole scheme of things, I dont really care one way or another.  And seems like most of the rest of the group is keen on ignoring it anyway. So I guess that is that. Welcome, FractionalTraveler!  Don't mind me!


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## 4Reliefnow (Apr 27, 2012)

*Watch the Movie No Way Out for Secret Clues to the Truth*



billymach4 said:


> There have been a few new guests here that seem to spin Marriott in a positive light. The language is well written much like a PR professional would apply to a press release.
> 
> We all know that Marriott reads TUG, as well as other industry experts. Marriott has also made somewhat of an official post here in the past.
> 
> ...





I loved that movie with Kevin Kostner and Sean Young about the Russian Mole in the Pentagon.  The obvious conclusion about the Marriott Mole here at Tug is that Billymach is the mole and is directing attention away from himself.

We are coming for you Billymach, we have always heard rumors about the deep silent mole, the Manchurian Candidate of Timeshare, I know all about your devious plan to corner the DC Points market like the Hunt Brothers.  Either you ARE THE MOLE or you are Elvis Presley....Which is it?    

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0093640/  Link to No Way Out


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## billymach4 (Apr 28, 2012)

4Reliefnow said:


> I loved that movie with Kevin Kostner and Sean Young about the Russian Mole in the Pentagon.  The obvious conclusion about the Marriott Mole here at Tug is that Billymach is the mole and is directing attention away from himself.
> 
> We are coming for you Billymach, we have always heard rumors about the deep silent mole, the Manchurian Candidate of Timeshare, I know all about your devious plan to corner the DC Points market like the Hunt Brothers.  Either you ARE THE MOLE or you are Elvis Presley....Which is it?
> 
> http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0093640/  Link to No Way Out




Billymole ....Now that does have a nice ring to it!


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## billymach4 (Apr 28, 2012)

*Does anyone remember Steamboat Bill?*

He just sort of dropped off the landscape.

Sort of strange for a lifetime member to go silent since 08. He was poking around on another site for a little while, then sort of drifted off. 

He did live in Florida, was an avid golfer, and did tout the benefits of Fractional ownership.

Makes me think Steamboat Bill has reincarnated around here. 

Steamboat Bill
TUG Lifetime Member
Last Activity: November 2, 2008 08:12 PM 

How about PerryM? He is very eloquent as well. I know he has that other site, but what is to prevent someone to put on another face and begin posting here?

It would be fun. Would it not?

(Oh I better be quiet before they find out my secrets, then I will be labeled a suspected mole?)


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## scrapngen (Apr 28, 2012)

iconnections said:


> :hysterical:
> 
> I heard some time ago that some people are required to read it so it gives them a pulse as they report on it.  I mentioned TUG yesterday to our saleslady but she had never heard of it and even mispronounced it.  She asked the Manager and he had, of course.  He didn't make any comments but I saw his face or reaction.  We went on an update yesterday which was a good experience.



How can you possibly mispronounce TUG???? Or maybe I'm too new and mispronounce it as well???? Tell me it's not really supposed to be "toog!"   

Now I'll be up all night going through as many permutations as I can....


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## DCBoy (Apr 28, 2012)

OK, time to fess up with full disclosure here, I did stay at a Marriott hotel once several years ago. Maybe I'm the mole and I don't even know it!


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## Twinkstarr (Apr 28, 2012)

scrapngen said:


> How can you possibly mispronounce TUG???? Or maybe I'm too new and mispronounce it as well???? Tell me it's not really supposed to be "toog!"
> 
> Now I'll be up all night going through as many permutations as I can....



I saw that last night and :hysterical: could see the woman saying "toog" as that was the first thing that popped into my head.

 If I was inconnections I would have been on the floor rolling with laughter.


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## billymach4 (Apr 28, 2012)

How about TARG, TUUG, TAAG, TOOP.


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## 4Reliefnow (Apr 28, 2012)

*Time to delete this thread*

I posted evidence here yesterday that Billymach4 is the real mole in the Marriott TUG group.  I showed conclusive circumstantial evidence and analogy that he is in fact the character that Kevin Kostner played in the movie "No Way Out'.  My post was deleted as innapropriate.


If my extremely funny post had to be censorred, then it must be time to delete this thread.  It can be viewed as a personal attach against a TUG member.


Time to cut!


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## SueDonJ (Apr 28, 2012)

4Reliefnow said:


> I posted evidence here yesterday that Billymach4 is the real mole in the Marriott TUG group.  I showed conclusive circumstantial evidence and analogy that he is in fact the character that Kevin Kostner played in the movie "No Way Out'.  My post was deleted as innapropriate.
> 
> 
> If my extremely funny post had to be censorred, then it must be time to delete this thread.  It can be viewed as a personal attach against a TUG member.
> ...



All this black helicopter stuff is too confusing.  Isn't that your post right up there, #43?     (Plus, I thought you said he was Elvis?)


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## SueDonJ (Apr 28, 2012)

billymach4 said:


> How about TARG, TUUG, TAAG, TOOP.



It's like some Bizarro World verb conjugation.


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## dioxide45 (Apr 28, 2012)

I have mostly stayed out of commenting in this thread because I think it was more about stirring the pot than anything else. I however would be thrilled if Marriott had a representative here, either in an official or unofficial capacity. The problem is that most corporations see some type of liability placing people in online forums. See the Ask RCI forum. I really don't understand why. Perhaps it is a cost cutting move. People could be doing *real* work instead of coming here listening to us drone about Marriott timeshares.

I would hope that these representatives would answer real questions and not just talk up the company as a whole and mostly advertise or expel the virtues of how great everything is when not all customers may agree.

Over on another forum (not TUG) there is an employee of a company that posts regularly in one of the forums (I won't name which company or which forum). I get the impression that they are there in an unofficial capacity. They are not there to sell the virtues of the company but do respond with very helpful information and correct many inaccuracies in responses by others. I find this person to be very helpful and would not want to see them go. Though I am sure if their company knew they were posting online, their participation would be nixed rather quickly, truly sad.


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## presley (Apr 28, 2012)

billymach4 said:


> Makes me think Steamboat Bill has reincarnated around here.



He is an active and hilarious poster on Mouseowners.  I believe he was banned from several other sites, including this one.


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## dioxide45 (Apr 28, 2012)

presley said:


> He is an active and hilarious poster on Mouseowners.  I believe he was banned from several other sites, including this one.



There was a thread started in the TUG Lounge  back in 2009 about "Where's Steamboat Bill". It seems he got PO'ed because of some responses to a thread about a traffic ticket he got for speeding, so he decided to move on. I think he went OY, but I don't frequent there much, so I don't know how active he is there.


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## Mr. Vker (Apr 28, 2012)

It's me. I admit it.


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## amanda14 (Apr 28, 2012)

Holy Moley.

If there is a "mole" really who cares?  Like others have said it can only help us as owners.  I am certain that some sales reps have no clue about TUG and so what if they don't? It seems as though people get offended because Marriott people don't admit they are aware of these forums, and? I am in Sales and pretty successful at it.  I don't go out of my way to highlight weaknesses of my product so what's the big deal? If someone takes any info back to the mothership of Marriott, or people from there monitor the boards, awesome!  Fletch helped me a few years ago and is solid and even if he was a mole, so?  Marriott offers a superior product and I am thrilled with what we have and the trips and memories I have created by purchasing 1 resale and 1 developer week, now in points.  I often marvel at how forums like trip advisor, tug and many others where complaints dominate.   

And if someone doesnt want to admit they work for Marriott and lurks, I am totally cool with that.


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## Twinkstarr (Apr 29, 2012)

amanda14 said:


> Holy Moley.
> 
> If there is a "mole" really who cares?  Like others have said it can only help us as owners.  I am certain that some sales reps have no clue about TUG and so what if they don't? It seems as though people get offended because Marriott people don't admit they are aware of these forums, and? I am in Sales and pretty successful at it.  I don't go out of my way to highlight weaknesses of my product so what's the big deal? If someone takes any info back to the mothership of Marriott, or people from there monitor the boards, awesome!  Fletch helped me a few years ago and is solid and even if he was a mole, so?  Marriott offers a superior product and I am thrilled with what we have and the trips and memories I have created by purchasing 1 resale and 1 developer week, now in points.  I often marvel at how forums like trip advisor, tug and many others where complaints dominate.
> 
> And if someone doesnt want to admit they work for Marriott and lurks, I am totally cool with that.




I know the Marriott salesperson we talked to about MOW knew a lot about TUG. 

Also I know a lot of the DVC guides lurk on the various DVC sites.


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## JBRES1 (Apr 29, 2012)

*Marriott Mole*

Lets get real here.
If you were the mole here would you admit it.
You would be skined alive and hung out to dry in the sun.

Jim Breslin


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## gblotter (Apr 29, 2012)

dioxide45 said:


> I think he went OY, but I don't frequent there much, so I don't know how active he is there.


What is "OY"?


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## billymach4 (Apr 29, 2012)

Over Yonder

Timeshareforums.com


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## dioxide45 (Apr 29, 2012)

JBRES1 said:


> Lets get real here.
> If you were the mole here would you admit it.
> You would be skined alive and hung out to dry in the sun.
> 
> Jim Breslin



There is really no way to prove or disprove a mole. They could admit it, but no one would believe them. If the person denies it, those that think they are the mole still won't believe them. The whole thread is just silly.


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## Quilter (Apr 29, 2012)

dioxide45 said:


> The whole thread is just silly.



It is more than just silly.   It drags TUG down like a witch hunt.   

Think of the reasons why someone would begin such a thread:

1.   They have a compulsive disorder that makes them always stir the pot and cause drama.

2.  They are a resale salesperson who wants to keep any developer looking perpetually dishonest and sneaky.

3.   They sell another brand of timeshare and want to keep the Marriott forum in an uproar and focused away from positive, helpful posts.


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## Beefnot (Apr 29, 2012)

Quilter said:


> It is more than just silly.   It drags TUG down like a witch hunt.
> 
> Think of the reasons why someone would begin such a thread:
> 
> ...



Or they do not appreciate what they perceive to be hidden agendas and manipulations, but instead would like to see full disclosure.  Like if some organization pulblished a study suggesting that nicotine was not addictive and smoking has positive health benefits without disclosing it was sponsored by Altria.  I do not find that unreasonable at all.

Now, there is indeed no way to prove beyond a reasonable doubt the existence of a mole.  But this is not a court of law, so preponderance of the evidence is sufficient.  If someone does not even take the time to refute an allegation, then their silence is very interesting.  It is like pleading the fifth.

So I do not find this thread silly at all. It helped to illuminate that most of you refuse to believe what circumstantial evidence would lead many to conclude, and more importantly it made it patently clear that you do not care whether someone is a "mole" or not.

But like I said, I don't really much care either other than as a curiosity. Because in most cases I can tell from a body of work what someone's agenda is, so if they want to fool everyone else, ok. Doesn't make me none.


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## billymach4 (Apr 29, 2012)

Quilter said:


> It is more than just silly.   It drags TUG down like a witch hunt.
> 
> Think of the reasons why someone would begin such a thread:
> 
> ...



Quilter, 

In order to answer some of your questions above I would like to explain that I have personally met some of the other posters here that can vouch for my background and reputation. 

I would also like to invite you to friend request me on my FB page so you can gain some more of my background history. 

Please send me a PM if you would like accept my invitation to my FB page. I do ask you to respect my privacy an not to post my name here on TUG, or in this thread.


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## billymach4 (Apr 29, 2012)

Beefnot said:


> Or they do not appreciate what they perceive to be hidden agendas and manipulations, but instead would like to see full disclosure.  Like if some organization pulblished a study suggesting that nicotine was not addictive and smoking has positive health benefits without disclosing it was sponsored by Altria.  I do not find that unreasonable at all.
> 
> Now, there is indeed no way to prove beyond a reasonable doubt the existence of a mole.  But this is not a court of law, so preponderance of the evidence is sufficient.  If someone does not even take the time to refute an allegation, then their silence is very interesting.  It is like pleading the fifth.
> 
> ...



Beefnot, 

Thank you for your support, and interest in the same subject matter.


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## dioxide45 (Apr 29, 2012)

Quilter said:


> It is more than just silly.   It drags TUG down like a witch hunt.
> 
> Think of the reasons why someone would begin such a thread:
> 
> ...



I really have no reason to believe Billymach is a mole for Marriott or any other company. Is there an agenda? Perhaps, but is there also an agenda at the center of his post? Perhaps.

Being a mole and having an agenda are very different things. After reading many posts by many individuals, you know which ones to take more seriously and which to take with a grain of salt.


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## billymach4 (Apr 29, 2012)

presley said:


> He is an active and hilarious poster on Mouseowners.  I believe he was banned from several other sites, including this one.



I went over to mouseowners and see that the Steamboat Bill was banned as well.


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## Quilter (Apr 29, 2012)

SueDonJ said:


> The true moles that you seem to be on a crusade to unearth, the ones who are supposedly Marriott employees here on a mission who will never admit their true corporate identity?  They're simply inconsequential.  If they don't admit to being Marriott employees, then obviously they won't try to state that they are an official voice of the company.  That leaves them in the same position as the rest of us, TUG posters who sometimes get it wrong but are lucky enough to be here where what's correct is eventually learned.  By all of us.



What I perceived from Sue's post was, it's not that those who won't join the "hunt" are blindly following a pied piper, we just see the info posted as a view from another Tugger.  

Manipulative?   I don't think so.   Positive?   Yes.   Some owners are very high on their ownership and focus on what it has to offer.   Maybe they also see some negative but they don't choose to dwell on it or be a spreader of negativity.  No ulterior motive.  

If that owner/Tugger is also an employee of Marriott so be it.   An employee can be a Tugger with the simple motive to share but also have the integrity not to say anything negative about the company they work for.  

It's not mandatory here on TUG to be negative.


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## Quilter (Apr 29, 2012)

billymach4 said:


> Quilter,
> 
> In order to answer some of your questions above I would like to explain that I have personally met some of the other posters here that can vouch for my background and reputation.
> 
> ...



Thank you for the invitation but I'm sorry I can't accept because I don't do FB.   For anyone.  It's just one more thing that would encroach on my time.  I was enjoying a recent come back to TUG and learning new ways to use our ownership.   Then this hunt got in the way of the enjoyment and I'm questioning the value of time spent here.  

Your reputation could be stellar but I think you're off the mark with this hunt, it's just not worth the fuss.  Nobody's perfect.


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## dioxide45 (Apr 29, 2012)

Quilter said:


> Thank you for the invitation but I'm sorry I can't accept because I don't do FB.   For anyone.  It's just one more thing that would encroach on my time.  I was enjoying a recent come back to TUG and learning new ways to use our ownership.   Then this hunt got in the way of the enjoyment and I'm questioning the value of time spent here.
> 
> Your reputation could be stellar but I think you're off the mark with this hunt, it's just not worth the fuss.  Nobody's perfect.



It would be really upsetting if threads like this (and those others where people are complaining about how others are complaining) would cause people to leave or limit their time on TUG. The information I have learned here is very valuable. I wouldn't want others to miss out on this information for stuff like this that doesn't really matter in the grand scheme of things.


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## billymach4 (Apr 29, 2012)

On the net, and here on TUG, due to the insulation and distance of anonymity all ideas, communication, and perception (including my perception) needs to be taken with a grain of salt. 

Since we just writing out thoughts much is left of the delivery. Facial expression, tone, body language, etc. 

When I am at work, and I see something in an email that I question, or don't like, I stop the emails, and pick up the phone and speak! This usually ends all questions and potential conflicts. We don't have that ability here.... (We do but that is not the function of this board) 

As a result many posters misinterpret, and spin information the wrong way.


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## SueDonJ (Apr 30, 2012)

billymach4 said:


> On the net, and here on TUG, due to the insulation and distance of anonymity all ideas, communication, and perception (including my perception) needs to be taken with a grain of salt.
> 
> Since we just writing out thoughts much is left of the delivery. Facial expression, tone, body language, etc.
> 
> ...



Also worth noting is that "on the net," some folks will always hear the deafening roar of black helicopters without so much as a contrail appearing in the sky.  It must be exhausting to never stop searching for ulterior motives.


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## csxjohn (May 7, 2012)

scrapngen said:


> How can you possibly mispronounce TUG???? Or maybe I'm too new and mispronounce it as well???? Tell me it's not really supposed to be "toog!"
> 
> Now I'll be up all night going through as many permutations as I can....



You mean it's not pronounced toog?  The t from timeshare is easy and the g from group is easy.  I thought the u from users was just as easy.  How did the u from users get changed from oo to uh?  Just because it goes between the t and g it changes sound?

Oh well, thats what I get for thinking.


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## laurac260 (May 8, 2012)

*ok, it's me, I'll come clean*

I love me some Marriotts'.  I done owns one that I bought re-sale so as to not drawl no attention to meself.  I think everyone on hear should buy two or three or fore, even if they are resales.  Then convert them to points.  Then trade them.  I don't no what you are all squeaking about, all those skimming threads and whatnot.  We (oops, I mean they), don't skim no points nohow.  uh uh.  Its all some cockamamie somthinoranuther that some guy from Disney started (you know, THAT mole).  

Huh, dint you no that Disney puts them thar moles on this hear Marriott bored to make ya'll think that Marriotts' folks are all sheisters?

Sorry if my grammer aint what you all is akostemd too.  My dog is a'sleepin right now.  He's my spel chekar and all.  He is reel good at barkin when I done speld a word rong.   Keeps the landlord away too wen they coma calling' for that thar rent check.


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## BocaBoy (Jul 1, 2012)

Beefnot said:


> I dont think Fletch is a mole. I find it very curious though that when it comes to FT, many jump to his defense without him not so much as letting out a peep to confirm or dispel the rumors.  Actually, it is more than curious, it is amazing that no one else finds it curious.  My estimation is that he is on TUG in an unofficial or unsanctioned capacity, and does not know the inner workings of the program. Of course he can clear things up himself if he would like.



This is the same crap that I was accused of two years ago when I refused to condemn everything that Marriott was doing.


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## rrsafety (Jul 1, 2012)

*Jfk (1991)*

_"Oh man, why don't you friggin stop it? This is too friggin' big for you, you know that? Who did the president, who killed Kennedy, frig man! It's a mystery! It's a mystery wrapped in a riddle inside an enigma! The friggin' shooters don't even know! Don't you get it?"_


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## pedro47 (Jul 1, 2012)

Why does Marriott needs a mole ? This is an open forum where anyone came join, post new topics and respond to any topics / thread.

The mole theory here is a waste of time. 

This is my opinion only.


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## Phill12 (Jul 1, 2012)

SueDonJ said:


> So all it takes for somebody to be accused of being a Marriott plant, is for that person to use proper english and generally-accepted marketing phrases while praising Marriott?
> 
> If this is the case I can say my gardening service people don't work with Marriott!
> 
> PHIL:rofl:


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## jlf58 (Jul 1, 2012)

I can tell you that Marriott doesn't want thier reps on TUG. 



BocaBoy said:


> This is the same crap that I was accused of two years ago when I refused to condemn everything that Marriott was doing.


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## Beefnot (Jul 1, 2012)

BocaBoy said:


> This is the same crap that I was accused of two years ago when I refused to condemn everything that Marriott was doing.



And I am sure you also had plead the fifth to any mole allegations.  Got it.  Bless your heart. Bless your heart.


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## Beefnot (Jul 1, 2012)

Fletch said:


> I can tell you that Marriott doesn't want thier reps on TUG.



I would not disagree with that.  I do not believe that our friend is a sales rep.


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## pfrank4127 (Jul 1, 2012)

*Why Do You Care?*



Beefnot said:


> I would not disagree with that.  I do not believe that our friend is a sales rep.



Who cares?  If they add to the discussion of the board then that's a great thing.


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## Beefnot (Jul 1, 2012)

I hear you. I don't begrudge that perspective at all.


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## billymach4 (Jul 1, 2012)

*As far as FT is concerned....*

I respect FT for his knowledge, and experience with regards to MVCI.

However there is a noticeable undertone to his posts. Some may like, some may not care, some may not even notice at all. 

Should FT decide to come clean that would be marvelous. He does not have to, and I don't think he or she will give us full disclosure.

Personally I think (However I will put in a disclaimer).... I could be wrong. I think FT is an old timer that used to be active here on TUG. The said old Timer disappeared and signed up under the alias FT. 

To be anonymous is one of the advantages of the internet. Until anyone here meets up with FT we shall never know?

Regardless of the circumstances we are here to share and learn about timeshares and our other interests. 

I have made my statement. End of story.


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## FractionalTraveler (Jul 1, 2012)

billymach4 said:


> I respect FT for his knowledge, and experience with regards to MVCI.
> 
> However there is a noticeable undertone to his posts. Some may like, some may not care, some may not even notice at all.
> 
> ...



Sorry to break your heart but old timer is not the best term since I have lord willing 35 more years of fractional ownership experiences ahead of me.

I came across TUG randomly earlier this year executing a Bing search on the differences between timesharing, fractional ownership, and residence clubs.

Not sure what is meant by undertones but I can certainly say that each time I have posted I have learned a great deal.  *I have gained years of experience in a short period of time just by listening and challenging ideas, concepts, thoughts, and strategies.*  Thanks to TUG.....

Right or wrong no matter it’s the exchange of ideas that is valuable.  Some people think you have to be right, others don’t post because they are afraid to be challenged.  I prefer to just speak, listen, evaluate, and take it all in.  The drama is part of the process.


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