# DSV I survey about use of JW facilities



## cp73 (Nov 16, 2009)

Just got this email asking to participate in the survey. If you receive it be sure to think about the questions before you answer them. If you like using the JW pools, spa, tennis, fitness center be sure to be vocal about it. They ask you questions about how frequently you use these facilities and how you feel about increases in your dues and how much to cover the use of these facilities. I personally would pay the top amount or more. Without it my wife and daughters probably wouldn't go. 

Dear Desert Springs Villas I Owner,

Over the past 20 years we have had a 'Recreational Agreement' in place with the adjoining JW Marriott Resort that includes access to their spa, spa fitness center, tennis courts and pools. The agreement expires at the end of this year.  We are involved in negotiations with the hotel's owners and we are unsure if we will be able to reach a new agreement.  However, we would like your feedback on this amenity and how important it is to you when you use your vacation week at Desert Springs Villas. We need your input as soon as possible as we look at our options and the cost of keeping this amenity in 2010 and beyond.

On behalf of your Board of Directors, we would appreciate a timely response of completing this brief but important survey by no later than Friday, November 20th, 2009.  I invite you to participate in the following survey.  We welcome your thoughts and ideas.  All responses are confidential and will only be used to help us develop the product and services that will continue to provide you and your family with unforgettable vacation experiences.

Thank you for your ongoing support as we work to continually evaluate the experiences at your resort with the goal to best meet our Owners' future vacation needs.

Please click on the link below to access the survey.  The survey will be available online through 12:00pm on Friday, November 20, 2009.


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## LAX Mom (Nov 16, 2009)

Chris,

I'm not an owner at DSV and I've never stayed there. But I have wondered about the Spa access. From your post I gather this includes the use of:

spa, spa fitness center, tennis courts and pools

Obviously any treatments at the spa would be for $$, but can't guests at DSV II and Shadow Ridge also pay for treatments there? So what is the advantage to DSV owners at the spa?

What about the other facilities? Are they a much better option than the pools & fitness center at DSV II and Shadow Ridge?

Thanks! Just curious what your wife & daughters enjoy so much about the spa access at DSV and how it compares to the other Palm Desert Marriotts. I hope to visit there soon!


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## cp73 (Nov 17, 2009)

LAX Mom said:


> Chris,
> 
> I'm not an owner at DSV and I've never stayed there. But I have wondered about the Spa access. From your post I gather this includes the use of:
> 
> ...



Lisa,
Yes it covers the spa, spa fitness center, tennis courts and the pools at the JW. The advantage of the spa is that there is no day use cover charge. I believe that charge is about $35?? to use the pools and facilities at the spa. The pool at the spa is very quite and relaxing. No children are allowed or cell phones. The attendants at the spa pool come around bringing you water or whatever you want at that pool. Anything special (massage, etc) is extra $$. The fitness center at the spa is also a lot more plush and more items to choose from.

The big draw for my family (wife and three girls 20,24,25) is the JW pool. I guess I would say its kind of like a pool at Vegas...with lots of action going on. The pools at the Villas are mostly old people or young families (per my daughters). That's probably why I prefer them. 

The big draw for me are the tennis courts. I have been playing tennis for over 20 years and when I go to the desert the club at the JW always sets up matches for you. I can't see them losing this ammenity otherwise there would be no tennis at DSV.

I am really surprised this hasn't been resolved. At my last stay during the summer I played tennis with one of the board members who said that it was a done deal and the access to the facilities had been approved and agreed upon.


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## LAX Mom (Nov 17, 2009)

Thanks Chris! I can see why you value that spa access, it sounds wonderful! I hope they are able to negotiate a solution that allows continued access without costing the owners too much additional $$. Good luck!


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## Latravel (Nov 17, 2009)

I completely agree with you.  Even though we own at Shadow Ridge, we only stay at DSV I because of the access to the JW facilities.   When I think of going to Palm Springs, I only search for DSV I.   

On a related note, I wonder how trading value for DSV I will be effected if they don't renew the contract?  I personally would not be interested in DSV I without the access and would stay at newer resorts.  I hope they think of that point.


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## Cathyb (Nov 17, 2009)

*DSV email*



cp73 said:


> Just got this email asking to participate in the survey. If you receive it be sure to think about the questions before you answer them. If you like using the JW pools, spa, tennis, fitness center be sure to be vocal about it. They ask you questions about how frequently you use these facilities and how you feel about increases in your dues and how much to cover the use of these facilities. I personally would pay the top amount or more. Without it my wife and daughters probably wouldn't go.
> 
> Dear Desert Springs Villas I Owner,
> 
> ...



We have been owners for years but didn't get the survey, hmmmm -- wonder why!  Haven't seen the renovated Spa -- going in February.


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## thinze3 (Nov 17, 2009)

If I am correct, the annual fee is well over $100 per owner week for this privilege. DSV II annual fees are that much cheaper as they don't have the same agreement.

Question is, how many owners would rather have the $100 knocked off their annual fee vs pay it and have use of the JW facilities?


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## TheTimeTraveler (Nov 17, 2009)

Does DSVI and DSVII each have their own budget and association or does it operate as one owners association?


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## mprocopi (Nov 17, 2009)

I didn't get the survey yet, but it seems like a no brainer to me.


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## cp73 (Nov 17, 2009)

thinze3 said:


> If I am correct, the annual fee is well over $100 per owner week for this privilege. DSV II annual fees are that much cheaper as they don't have the same agreement.
> 
> Question is, how many owners would rather have the $100 knocked off their annual fee vs pay it and have use of the JW facilities?



Terry,

I believe the current amount is $46 per year. In the survey they asked how you felt about increases and they started at $46 per year and went up in $5 increments to $75 per year with you rating how you felt about each amount. 

Also the survey came via email...


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## thinze3 (Nov 17, 2009)

You're correct. I was incorrectly basing DSV fees vs DSV II.

I checked the DSV website and it stated that the expense for 2009 was $45.49.


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## californiagirl (Nov 17, 2009)

Just wanted to add that as owners of DSV II we have use of the tennis courts.  It is in our contract.  As stated above, we do not have use of the spa.  

Use of the spa is a deciding point when we trade back in or buy a getaway week.  We love the spa.  I hope they can reach an agreement to keep the spa part of DSV I.  We were so naive when we bought our first property at DSV II.  I would much rather have bought villas I, but didn't know it was a possibility at the time.


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## EducatedConsumer (Nov 17, 2009)

The Desert Springs JW Marriott is owned by Host Hotels & Resorts, a group known to be shark-like.

If you do not receive a survey, I suggest you share your opinion with the President of the Homeowners Association and the President of Host. The President of Host is:

W. Edward Walter
President, Chief Executive Officer
Host Hotels & Resorts, Inc.
6903 Rockledge Drive, Suite 1500
Bethesda, MD 20817

The spa reportedly derives a handsome revenue from Desert Springs Villas owners and guests. On our last visit we were told by our perennial favorites at the Spa that their business is way down. 

What's not known here is whether or not the hotel and spa have chosen not to re-enter into the Recreational Agreement, if they've put a much higher price tag on the Recreational Agreement, or if the HOA is being prudent about raising fees.

If it's the hotel and their ownership that aren't playing ball, one way to send them a message during the upcoming busy holiday season is to "boycott" revenue-producing spa and hotel services (e.g. massage, aesthetics, fitness classes, spa cuisine, food outlets) at th JW Hotel and Spa. While the spa and hotel would feel the economic impact, sadly those who would be wounded would be the employees, who are already apparently feeling the impact of low hotel occupancy and reduced demand for many services, including spa services.

We are disappointed and surprised that at this late date that there is not a successor Recreational Agreement in place, and that one month before the expiration of the Agreement that the HOA is for the first time surveying owners about the Agreement. This does not bode well for the HOA.


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## EducatedConsumer (Nov 18, 2009)

Does any one know if access to the tennis courts is in or out with the Recreation Agreement?


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## cp73 (Nov 18, 2009)

EducatedConsumer said:


> Does any one know if access to the tennis courts is in or out with the Recreation Agreement?



I believe its part of the agreement. IT was also part of the survey. The four items which were indicated were part of the agreement were: tennis courts, spa, pools, jw fitness center.


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## SueDonJ (Nov 19, 2009)

I'm all for a pay-as-you-play system with outside vendors including Marriott hotels near MVCI resorts; it doesn't seem fair that all timeshare owners subsidize outside activities through maintenance fees.

Barony used to have an inclusive tennis contract with Port Royal Racquet Club.  From a newsletter:


> The cost of the tennis program, budgeted at $122,600 for 2009, is currently charged to all Owners as part of the annual maintenance fee; but is used by approximately 10% of the owners.  Since other activities such as golf, off-site tours, and rental of beach chairs and bicycles are on an individual fee basis, the Board questioned the equity of requiring all Owners to subsidize the tennis program.



That's an excellent question, I think, and when they asked for input I said that the contract shouldn't be renewed at the expense of all Owners.

The Board managed to continue the tennis contract for 2009 but with a reduction that year; following 2009 it's now a pay-as-you-play arrangement with a 30% discount off rack rates at the tennis club.  A similar discount arrangement is in place at the European Spa on property.

Maybe DSV I could negotiate a discounted program with the JW, and continue any arrangement in place for payment through DSV I?  That might be a solution that could make all owners at least not unhappy.  And it would be better than what's in place at Crystal Shores, where spa treatments at the Marriott hotel down the beach cannot be charged to your villa.


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## pwrshift (Nov 19, 2009)

First of all, it's refreshing to hear that owners of DSV1 are hearing from the HOA and asked to let them know their feelings on the renewal of agreement. These days the HOA's of the Marriott I own just make blind decisions and don't seem to give a damn about what owners want ... even though it would be very simple to poll the owners via email.

I don't own at DSV1 but if I ever buy another week out that way to balance my Canyon villas ownership it would be there ... as long as the JW deal is renewed. Otherwise, I wouldn't consider buying. I spend a weekin DSV1 a few years back and loved the daily access to the spa and their pool just to get away from the hoards of kids at the TS pools. When my adult daughters wanted a holiday I exchanged them into DSV1 for the same reason and they thought it was a great benefit ... I remember them coming home and encouraging me to buy a week there.  When you search II for available weeks, it's obvious that DSV2 is readily available all year long while getting DSV1 is very tough...and that seems to indicate DSV1 is a more valuable asset regardless of the extra $43 a year.

It will be interesting to see what happens as I suspect the HOA will get a great and positive response to continuing the agreement. Manor Club has an agreement with Ford's Colony for 6 'free' rounds of golf each week that has an expiry date, but I haven't had a chance to look up that date. Again, it was the key reason I bought there. My guess is that the Manor Club HOA won't even survey owners about it and make some stupid decision.

It is very discouraging that in this day and age the HOA's don't survey owners when at the touch of a button they could find out everything they want to know about what the owners want. Maybe they just don't want the owners to have a say. Shame on them.

Brian


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## pwrshift (Nov 19, 2009)

Seems like Host is part of the family from this post in Bill Marriott's blog:

http://www.blogs.marriott.com/

_'When we split our company, he moved over to the Host Hotel Board of Directors. Host was the company that retained the ownership of the Marriott Hotels we owned before the split and is now called Host Hotels and Resorts."_

Brian



EducatedConsumer said:


> The Desert Springs JW Marriott is owned by Host Hotels & Resorts, a group known to be shark-like.
> 
> If you do not receive a survey, I suggest you share your opinion with the President of the Homeowners Association and the President of Host. The President of Host is:
> 
> ...


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## sernow (Dec 1, 2009)

Hi Chris,

I just returned from a week at DSV 1 and had such a great time (except for stumbling down the steps to the sunken living room) that I was thinking of buying a resale week. 

I'm hoping you might be able to answer some questions for me concerning the differerent amenities available at the JW for DSV 1 versus DSV 2 owners.

1. Golf: What is the access for DSV1 and DSV2 owners and what's the cost? Do guests at the JW have priority?

2. Same question as 1 except for tennis.

3. Besides the access to the JW pools and having the day fee at the spa waived for DSV1 owners, is there anything else that the DSV1 owners get that DSV2 don't?

Thanks for your help.


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## cp73 (Dec 2, 2009)

sernow said:


> Hi Chris,
> 
> I just returned from a week at DSV 1 and had such a great time (except for stumbling down the steps to the sunken living room) that I was thinking of buying a resale week.
> 
> ...



Glad to hear you had a great time SERNOW. Next time stay on the ground floor I dont believe they have the step down living room. Its easy to take that fall when you looking out at the view.

Golf...both DSV I and II are the same as far as fees. I somehow want to say that both get some discount during certain times of the year. Unfortunately I dont recall what that it is and its probably during the summer. Other than the discount I dont believe its any less or more costly than staying in the hotel unless your staying on some golf package which the JW occassionaly has.

Tennis...Both I and II have the same use of the tennis courts and there is no charge for court use. Also the tennis facility there has three different court types, grass, clay, and hard court. They are also very good at finding players for you to play with from local residents if hotel/villa guest aren't available.

Another difference between I and II is the layout and location of the lockouts. DSV I has two double beds, DSV II has one doulble bed and a couch that opens into a bed. Another difference which could be important to you if you have youngs kids is the location of the lockout in the suite. DSV I's lockout is pretty isolated from the rest of the villa. Great if you have older kids or adults guests but not ideal if you have young kids which need to be near you. DSV II lockout is more an integral part of the villa. You should go the Marriott Vacation Club web site and look at the layouts. Overall I believe DSV I units are larger in size and probably one of the largest villas that Marriott has. 

Maybe others can chime in if I forgot something. Applegirl is very knowledgeable about both resorts and has young kids.


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## sernow (Dec 2, 2009)

Thanks Chris for the info. I was staying on the ground floor and it had that sunken living room too.

You're right that the lock-off layout for DSV1 would be ideal for groups traveling together that aren't related or for older children or adult guests. The studio layout for DSV1 is isolated from the rest of the unit. It's actually a seperate apartment with no interior door accesss.  I agree that it wouldn't work as well with very young children unless an adult stayed in the studio portion with them. 

It may not be as much of a problem as I think though, because I saw more younger children at this resort than I saw during my last visit to Marriott's Cypress Harbour in Orlando.


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## thinze3 (Dec 2, 2009)

I received an email Monday stating that DSV II is going to be doing a survey with its owners about future agreements with the JW. Currentlt there is a very limited use agreemenet in place.




> We will be developing a brief survey that will be e-mailed to all Desert Springs Villas II Owners whom we have a current and valid e-mail address and are not on the DNC (Do Not Call) list, to get your input and feedback on amenities at the JW Marriott Desert Springs Resort & Spa.


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## danuty (Dec 2, 2009)

*DSV1*

We are currently at DSV 1 and have enjoyed the complimentary spa facilities.  I will ask tomorrow if there is any update on status of future privileges.

Diane


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## caroln (Dec 3, 2009)

I received this email from Susan Belleville the Manager of Desert Springs villas in response to my question if the spa issue had been settled given there is a $50 charge for "Recreation Agreement" on my maintenance bill.  

"No, it is still in negotiation at this time, and the $50 was just a placeholder as the Maintenance Fees had to go out.  You will receive a letter from your Board President within the next 2-3 weeks that will give an update of the contract as well as what has been happening at the resort and plans for 2010."


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## danuty (Dec 3, 2009)

*DSVI*

Front desk personnel stated JWM spa facility and gym usage for DSVI guests are available at no charge until the end of the year.  A decision had not been reached for 2010.


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## EducatedConsumer (Dec 3, 2009)

Hopefully the HOA Board will not allow the spa/hotel agreement to come to an end. I have to believe that many more people request DSVI over DSVII from II due to the spa/hotel access that accompanies DSVI ownership, thereby creating greater exchange power for DSVI owners. I know that on the rare occasion that we have rented our villa, that the spa/hotel access gave us an advantage over DSVII owners. 

We're good for about $1000.00 in busines at the hotel and spa each week that we vaction at DSVI. The JW can kiss that business good by if the spa/hotel agreement is not renewed. By the look of things at the hotel when we were last there, they can't afford to lose one cent.


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## cruisin (Dec 3, 2009)

Surveys usually lead to very bad things, I had contemplated buying a DSV1 from a friend who has let me use it the last 3 years anyway, but would never consider it if the agreement is gone, you would think that the value of what you own would come down, that should probably be weighed ionto any decisions also. I know I would go from interested at ba fair price to not interested at all.


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## dioxide45 (Dec 3, 2009)

cruisin said:


> Surveys usually lead to very bad things, I had contemplated buying a DSV1 from a friend who has let me use it the last 3 years anyway, but would never consider it if the agreement is gone, you would think that the value of what you own would come down, that should probably be weighed ionto any decisions also. I know I would go from interested at ba fair price to not interested at all.



What may be happening is that the JWM is asking for a lot more money in the new agreement for 2010. The survey is likely being used to weigh the cost vs. benefit in the owners mind. If a lot of owners like the benefit, they will keep it and charge more in the MF. Thus an increase in the MF. If many people don't use it or find its value not worth the cost, it would go away, probably not likely to see much of a decrease in MF as the percentage increase next year would eat in to any savings of not paying that agreement usage fee.


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## EducatedConsumer (Dec 9, 2009)

Has any one received an update? 

The agreement expires in 22 days and we have received no updated communication from Marriott.


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## nazclk (Dec 11, 2009)

*Dsv I*

any news yet on the use of the hotel facilities


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## Darlene (Dec 12, 2009)

Please be sure to let us exchangers know what the decision is at the end of the year.  I have not been to Palm Springs, but have been thinking about exchanging there for a while.
Thanks,
Darlene


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## applegirl (Dec 13, 2009)

I really hope they extend the privileges of DSV I with the Spa access and all.  I think it's a wonderful perk and DSV I would be at the top of my list if we ever buy another week in Marriott.  The new spa at the JW is just amazing and I know not all owners use it, but I'm sure plenty do.   

I can't wait to see what happens with all this and so glad Chris is keeping us all informed!

Cheers,
Janna


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## jcr (Dec 15, 2009)

Goodness, I posted on another thread that I am extremely disappointed that the spa fitness center employees have been let go.  We own two weeks at DSVI and never got the email survey.  We get the surveys after every stay, but not this one.  Interestingly, on every single survey, we have always touted the availability of the spa fitness center as being a primary reason for buying and returning (at least three times a year).  We have referred friends and family.  Things do not look good.


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## dash (Dec 16, 2009)

What do you mean spa fitness employees let go?


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## danuty (Dec 16, 2009)

*DSV1 Spa access*

I received the standard "can we schedule any activities for you" email from Marriott yesterday regarding our upcoming January stay at DSV1. The section on Spa services stated the JWM spa will only offer limited services due to renovation.  The email also suggested booking services at the local Renaissance spa.  Is this why employees have been laid off?  Anyone have any info about the renovations?

Diane


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## danuty (Dec 16, 2009)

*Spa Services*

Just got off the phone with the JWM Spa and the info in the owner services email was incorrect - there are no renovations and reduction of spa services planned in January.  I asked about using the spa during our Jan DSV1 stay - answer "we have not been informed of a decision yet."

Diane


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## jcr (Dec 16, 2009)

I'm more concerned about the fitness classes.  People may think I'm crazy, but that was the big draw for me.  We are slated to go December 27.  I'll let you know what happens.


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## judys19058 (Dec 17, 2009)

I traded e-mails with the DVI manager this week.  She said that the Board failed to come to a new agreement with the Spa.  We no longer will have special privileges but can always purchase services as needed directly with the Spa.  Details of the negotiations will be available in a few weeks.  I will sorely miss the use of the Spa facilities and the quiet, adults-only pool.


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## EducatedConsumer (Dec 17, 2009)

I wonder what story the survey told?

Did the board fail the owners? 

What really happened? 

Was the hotel interested or not interested in negotiating a package with DSVI? If interested, I wonder what their threshold was? How much money did they want?


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## Superchief (Dec 17, 2009)

The JW Marriott at Desert Ridge in Phoenix offers free access to the SPA facilities to Marriott platinum members (even when staying in Canyon Villas). Does anyone know whether a similar policy is in place at the JW near DSV?


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## cruisin (Dec 17, 2009)

Timeshare surveys are  used to accomplish whatever the survey giver wants, while giving owners the false sense that their opinions matter, and will always be interpreted to get the result desired, this is really sad, but once the survey was out there, pretty much a done deal 


Well, at least the dues should go down.....


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## dash (Dec 17, 2009)

Superchief

Is that a publicized benefit at the Desert Ridge Spa?  If not, how did you find out about it?

Whenever we have stayed there, I was not informed.

Thanks

Dash


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## ciscogizmo1 (Dec 17, 2009)

dash said:


> Superchief
> 
> Is that a publicized benefit at the Desert Ridge Spa?  If not, how did you find out about it?
> 
> ...


This was not advertised in II so, probably a very few token knew about the "free" spa use at JW Marriott.   Most people don't agree with me but I doubt this benefit really had impact on II.  It might have as far as selling but it so minor in the grand scheme of things I doubt it made it that much more valuable than any other timeshare in Palm Springs.  But that's my opinion.....

I would guess during this tough economic times that Marriott is having trouble keeping the spa open let alone figure out who from DSV I will be using the SPA services that week.  Can you imagine the logical nightmare it must have been to figure out staffing?  I would guess Marriott wanted DSV I to pay a little more for that convenience.  For the overall benefit of the owners this is probably a good thing for MFs and now the owners that truely want to use the SPA services will just pay as they go.


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## Superchief (Dec 17, 2009)

Dash,
I think I learned about the Desert Ridge spa access benefit for Platinum MR members either on the Marriott Insiders forum or Trip Advisors. I called the resort to confirm. This 'privilege' allowed me to use the fitness center, locker facilities, and quiet pool at the Spa without the daily usage fee charge. We really enjoyed it and can't wait to go back.


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## applegirl (Dec 18, 2009)

I hope someone who stays at DSV I after the new year will let us know how this turns out.  I really think the Spa will lose out big time on this.  It's my understanding that EVERY DSV I owner paid an extra $25 a year or something to have the privileges over there.  That amounted to thousands of extra dollars every year.  I don't know how the Spa can afford NOT to renew the contract.   I hope the spa doesn't close.  It's the nicest one I know of in the area.

Cheers,
Janna


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## EducatedConsumer (Dec 18, 2009)

ciscogizmo1 said:


> This was not advertised in II so, probably a very few token knew about the "free" spa use at JW Marriott.   Most people don't agree with me but I doubt this benefit really had impact on II.  It might have as far as selling but it so minor in the grand scheme of things I doubt it made it that much more valuable than any other timeshare in Palm Springs.  But that's my opinion.....
> 
> I would guess during this tough economic times that Marriott is having trouble keeping the spa open let alone figure out who from DSV I will be using the SPA services that week.  Can you imagine the logical nightmare it must have been to figure out staffing?  I would guess Marriott wanted DSV I to pay a little more for that convenience.  For the overall benefit of the owners this is probably a good thing for MFs and now the owners that truely want to use the SPA services will just pay as they go.



I think you are completely off the mark.

DSVI has operated for about 20 years and seen thousands and thousands of owners and exchangers come and go. Savvy Marriott and non-Marriott owners over the years have learned through a variety of means, including Marriott's own sales and service people and Interval people, about the spa and hotel privileges that accompany DSVI. I suspect that DSVI has had much greater demand then DSVII over the years through II because of the spa and hotel access/priviliges. There's no doubt that some exchangers exchange into DSVI because of the larger size of the villa and/or the two queen beds in the studio. We were told several times over time that many of those exchanging into DSVI are DSVII owners who like the hotel/spa privileges.

I suspect that Interval International will over time see a reduction in those exchanging into DSVI. The first group to go will be all of the DSVII owners that exchange into DSVI to enjoy the spa/hotel privileges. I suspect that reduced demand will impact the exchange power that DSVI owners presently enjoy.

In the absence of any details from the HOA, and the isolation that the HOA Board Members create by hiding behind the General Manager's email address, I have no reason to believe anything but that the HOA blew it. That is unfortunate.


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## danuty (Dec 18, 2009)

*Educated Consumer*

I agree with your comments and will be considering also staying at DSVII  in the future now that the gym and spa facilities are not part of the package. I believe, as stated before, that the sales price of DSVI units will drop to DSVII levels. 

Applegirl, I'll post after our visit in January at Shadow Ridge followed by a week at DSV1.  Looks like we'll be using the local 24 Hr Fitness facility. Not complaining, it's an adjustment that can be easily made - we'll still be in warmer, hopefully dry paradise!

Diane


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## jcr (Dec 18, 2009)

Who is the manager to contact at DVI?  I just called the Villas and was told that no decision has been made yet.


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## cvmar (Dec 18, 2009)

We have been waiting for the right time to purchase a Marriott timeshare as we have been renting for years. We originally wanted Maui but then found out about the new towers going in and wanted to wait to see how they impacted the original building. We have recently decided not to purchase Maui due to the maintenance fees and now the property tax issues playing out there and the future unknown cost of airfare and decided to look into buying DSVI. 

We have stayed at all the Palm Desert Marriotts and although they are all very nice we only wanted to purchase at DSVI due to the spa privileges. There seem to be far fewer DSVI high season available for a price I am willing to pay however there are several DSVII and Shadow Ridge. Now without the spa privileges and the pool use at the JW I will be looking at DSVII since we like that location over Shadow Ridge. 

I think I'll still sit on the sidelines a while longer though just in case this changes. I would hate to buy at DSVII only to have the spa privileges reinstated at DSVI.


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## jennifer 4 (Dec 18, 2009)

*DSVI Survey of JW Marriott Facilities*

I am an owner at Villas I.  However, if I were trying to decide between Villas I and II, I would still buy Villas I.

Even without the spa privilege, we prefer the larger, more private floor plan.
Villas I is about 200 square ft. larger, and there is also a separate whirlpool tub in the guest portion.  We also enjoy the step down living room and the large balcony.

I still feel that Villas I will command a slightly larger price, just because of the larger units.

Also, I don't think there is any difference as far as trading power.  My brother has Villas II, and we were able to see the same availability for like units.

I think if you have small children, you would prefer Villas II to keep a closer eye on them.  However, if you like your privacy, or if two couples are sharing a unit, Villas I would be much more appropriate.

People will get used to paying for the spa privilege as they go.  It was a nice perk, but it wouldn't be a deal breaker for me.


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## applegirl (Dec 18, 2009)

I was incorrect about the amount of money that is added on to the yearly MF's for the Spa and fitness center privilege.  The amount has been $46 a year recently, corrected by cp73 (Chris).  That's for EVERY week of ownership at the resort.  If I knew how many units there were I could figure it out quickly.

Wait a minute I have a property map...let me look...

Looks like there are 25 buildings.  As I remember I think there are usually 8 or 10 units per building so I'm going to use the average 9 to figure this out.

Okay, I just called DSV and asked.  They have 236 units in phase one!
So 236 units X $46 X 51 (weeks of ownership) is $553,656 a year that the Spa and fitness center garner from this sweet little deal.

How can the Spa really afford to lose 1/2 million dollars a year by not renewing the contract?  Times are tough as it is, so I really don't get it if they discontinue the privileges, which is what sounds most likely.

Janna


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## cp73 (Dec 18, 2009)

applegirl said:


> Okay, I just called DSV and asked.  They have 236 units in phase one!So 236 units X $46 X 51 (weeks of ownership) is $553,656 a year that the Spa and fitness center garner from this sweet little deal.
> 
> How can the Spa really afford to lose 1/2 million dollars a year by not renewing the contract?  Times are tough as it is, so I really don't get it if they discontinue the privileges, which is what sounds most likely.
> Janna



Janna,

Great comment. I agree with you. I dont see how they walk away from that. DSV I must be their biggest customer. I am sure most the people who stay never go over to the spa. Or if they do it might be for one or two days. 

I am also concerned about losing the use of the pools at JW. This was also part of the agreement. My girls love the JW pools and hate the pools at DSV I or II.


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## Superchief (Dec 19, 2009)

*Is Royal Palms losing resort facility access?*

I noticed there was a special assessment for the Royal Palms MF to build a new fitness center. I hope this doesn't indicate that access to the Marriott World Center facilities will be stopped in the near future. With the downturn in MVC, is Marriott trying to separate the timeshares from the resorts?


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## EducatedConsumer (Dec 22, 2009)

Have any Phase I owners received anything in writing yet from the GM or HOA about the spa access ending at the end of the year?

We will be at DSVI in January and have not received any communication other then the usual from Marriott.


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## Cathyb (Dec 22, 2009)

*DSV I spa*



EducatedConsumer said:


> Have any Phase I owners received anything in writing yet from the GM or HOA about the spa access ending at the end of the year?
> 
> We will be at DSVI in January and have not received any communication other then the usual from Marriott.



Owner going in February -- to my knowledge, no official words.....


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## OutAndAbout (Dec 22, 2009)

SueDonJ said:


> I'm all for a pay-as-you-play system with outside vendors including Marriott hotels near MVCI resorts; it doesn't seem fair that all timeshare owners subsidize outside activities through maintenance fees.



I couldn't have said it better myself.

At $46/week that's about US$7/day

What do you get for $7/day?


cp73 said:


> Over the past 20 years we have had a 'Recreational Agreement' in place with the adjoining JW Marriott Resort that includes access to their spa, spa fitness center, tennis courts and pools.



Let's go through these:
*Spa (notice that "fitness center" and "pools" are separate line items) - Is there anything gratis in the Spa?  Can't anyone, staying at the Marriott or not, pay the exact same for a massage?  If so, this sounds like marketing gibberish as there's no incremental value.  
*Spa fitness center - Doesn't the timeshare has its own fitness center?  If so, do owners need/want two fitness centers?  If the hotel one is "better" then shouldn't they shut the one at the timeshare?  (if they had full use at the hotel)
*Tennis courts - It seems these courts are "free" for DSV II, which makes me wonder if tennis is really part of the $46 fee..  {As *SueDonJ *pointed out, at Barony 100% of owners paid for tennis while only 10% actually used the tennis courts}
*Pools - Pretty sure DSV I has these too.  Are the hotel/spa pools worth US$7/day (and increasing to about $11/day)?  

DSV I isn't just favored due to the JW access, but also the villas are larger than other Marriott timeshare villas. 

I don't know what the survey results were, but I give the HOA credit for standing up to Marriott and not overpaying for the "perk."

Let the hotel/spa go a without the assurance of $550k/year (thanks *applegirl* for doing the math) plus the ancillary spa revenue and see what they come back to the table with.


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## jcr (Dec 22, 2009)

We bought specifically because of that agreement and were told that it would most likely never change.  It did change when they decided to do the massive unnecessary rebuild of the spa.  DSVI had free access to all the fitness classes.  All of a sudden, because of the remodel, we had to start paying $10.00 per class without any warning.  Not only that, parking used to be free and with the remodel, they put up a booth and started charging everyone for parking.  

Although perturbed, it was still worth it.  The classes were high caliber - great instructors.  I got a better workout there than at my home gyms.  Wherever we travel, the first thing I do is stake out local gyms to get my fix.  None of the other Marriotts compared to what this particular center offered.  Not only that, there was no turnover in instructors - or extremely rare.  I'd see the same people year after year in these classes who basically also bought DSVI because of this perk.  My husband is a master's swimmer.  The lap pool was the draw for him.  It is just too difficult to get his workout in any of the other property pools.  

As for the DSVI being larger.  Yes, very attractive, but when we bought in 2001, the units were extremely rundown with no upgrading on the horizon.  They are now upgrading in stages, but we have yet to stay in a remodelled unit.  Again, we didn't care because fitness mattered more than the condition of the unit.  I know it sounds insane, but it's true.  I'm re-reading this thinking I sound like a lunatic.  

We've never used the spa for massage or whatever else it is they do there so can't say anything about that.  Everything seems to have started going downhill just after the remodel. 

Just heard the assistant GM resigned today.  When I called today about the contract, the front desk still claims there is no decision as of yet.  For us, it'll matter only because of the pool.  I don't think they will be offering classes much longer since the fitness staff was let go.  It'll be interesting to see what it's like in a couple of weeks when we visit.


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## EducatedConsumer (Dec 22, 2009)

jcr said:


> We bought specifically because of that agreement and were told that it would most likely never change.  It did change when they decided to do the massive unnecessary rebuild of the spa.  DSVI had free access to all the fitness classes.  All of a sudden, because of the remodel, we had to start paying $10.00 per class without any warning.  Not only that, parking used to be free and with the remodel, they put up a booth and started charging everyone for parking.
> 
> Although perturbed, it was still worth it.  The classes were high caliber - great instructors.  I got a better workout there than at my home gyms.  Wherever we travel, the first thing I do is stake out local gyms to get my fix.  None of the other Marriotts compared to what this particular center offered.  Not only that, there was no turnover in instructors - or extremely rare.  I'd see the same people year after year in these classes who basically also bought DSVI because of this perk.  My husband is a master's swimmer.  The lap pool was the draw for him.  It is just too difficult to get his workout in any of the other property pools.
> 
> ...



I enthusiastically second much of what you wrote. 

I didn't know that the fitness staff were let go. When did that happen? Bob too? Most of the fitness staff have been there for years.

What we still don't know is why is the spa/hotel perk not renewed. Did the hotel say no? Increase their fees? Did the DSVI Board say no? It's all a mystery and there still seems to be no communication from the Board.


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## jcr (Dec 23, 2009)

I have no idea why it happened.  The fitness staff was let go two weeks ago and Friday was their last day.  Bob too, after 17 years I believe.  In terms of the contract, I don't recall seeing anything at all in the Minutes about the contract renewal, but then again, I don't read those things that carefully.  Glad to know there is someone here who also loved the fitness center.  I am going to call again tomorrow and see if there is anymore information.  The front desk at DSVI is definitely aware of the contract negotiation - they don't sound surprised and have a ready answer "no news yet".


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## EducatedConsumer (Dec 23, 2009)

jcr said:


> I have no idea why it happened.  The fitness staff was let go two weeks ago and Friday was their last day.  Bob too, after 17 years I believe.  In terms of the contract, I don't recall seeing anything at all in the Minutes about the contract renewal, but then again, I don't read those things that carefully.  Glad to know there is someone here who also loved the fitness center.  I am going to call again tomorrow and see if there is anymore information.  The front desk at DSVI is definitely aware of the contract negotiation - they don't sound surprised and have a ready answer "no news yet".



When we last stayed at the hotel the hotel looked like a deserted island. We were told that their bookings were down dramatically and that the same was expected for this winter. Many of the restaurants were closed and the few that were open had reduced hours. Our convention rate was the lowest it had ever been. We noticed something was off at the spa, and I could not put my finger on what it was. I could not tell if it was employee morale, dismissive management, no business, or something else. The mood at the spa was flat.

I wonder if Marriott's strategy is to do to the spa what they did to the restaurants, mothball them until the economy turns around. If the spa is bleeding, this would be one way to cut their losses. Do you think the fitness center were layed off due to the end of the DSV contract?

If the spa/hotel perks do come to an end, I hope DSV acts quickly to raise the bar on their fitness center, as the equipment is a fraction of that at the hotel. I wonder how DSV is going to accommodate all of their guests. 

All very sad. I'm far less concerned about our inconvenience then the loss of jobs for the Marriott's talented fitness center staff.

We are staying at the Westin in Rancho Mirage and then Desert Springs in January. It'll be interesting to see what's going on at the Westin.


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## jcr (Dec 27, 2009)

We're heading to DSVI today.  I called this morning and they said the contract is still in effect until Jan 1.  After that, DSVI will no longer have access.  "The fitness center was dissolved".  However, for this week, they will be having classes.  They do not know what will happen after January 1.


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## applegirl (Dec 27, 2009)

jcr said:


> We're heading to DSVI today.  I called this morning and they said the contract is still in effect until Jan 1.  After that, DSVI will no longer have access.  "The fitness center was dissolved".  However, for this week, they will be having classes.  They do not know what will happen after January 1.



Wow!  They are just going to close the fitness center over at the spa?!?!?!?!  That is such a nice facility.  HOw can a large, high end resort like the JW Marriott NOT have a top notch fitness center for it's guests who sometimes are paying $400 and $500 a night for an average resort room?

I just really don't get what's going on with the Spa and fitness center.  I know the economy has affected their revenue, but it doesn't seem to make a lot of sense to severe their ties with all the DSV I owners they have been serving for 25 years and close their fitness center.

This is not sounding good at all....

Janna


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## gardon (Jan 4, 2010)

*Sad News About DSV1*

What can be done now that the agreement has not been renewed?  Is it a done deal or can pressure be put on our Board of Directors to go back to the table and negotiate a deal for us? Surely they must recognize that spa/fitness and tennis privileges are what sets DSV1 apart from all the rest.  As many people have already indicated, that is why we own this particular timeshare.  Without this agreement, our investment is devalued.  Who should be contacted?


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