# Yet another best places to retire ranking.



## x3 skier (Jul 12, 2018)

https://www.bankrate.com/retirement/best-and-worst-states-for-retirement/

“You’ve retired. You received your gold watch, claimed Social Security and begun to plan that oft-delayed trip of a lifetime. You’re ready to take in nature’s splendor by the water.

Where, though, should you enjoy your repose: Hilton Head, South Carolina? Jekyll Island, Georgia? Maui?

Try Falls Park in Sioux Falls, South Dakota.

The Mount Rushmore State is the best state to retire, according to a new Bankrate study, followed by Utah, Idaho, New Hampshire and Florida.


New York, meanwhile, makes life hardest on those who recently escaped the daily grind. Even well-trod retirement destinations Arizona and New Mexico finished in the bottom half of our ranking.

When it comes to what makes for a happy retirement, conventional wisdom often bumps up against reality.”

Cheers


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## WinniWoman (Jul 12, 2018)

Love the top 4 as they are the ones we always consider, though I do love Vermont. But New Hampshire and Idaho are the top for me.

Never been to Utah or South Dakota but on my vacation list.


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## klpca (Jul 12, 2018)

x3 skier said:


> https://www.bankrate.com/retirement/best-and-worst-states-for-retirement/
> 
> “You’ve retired. You received your gold watch, claimed Social Security and begun to plan that oft-delayed trip of a lifetime. You’re ready to take in nature’s splendor by the water.
> 
> ...


I had a friend who retired with her husband to Utah. Unfortunately his allergies were out of control in Utah so they came back to CA in less than two years. Ouch. Very expensive decision.

Personally, I would always rent for a year or two before moving for retirement. I have another friend who rented out his condo and stayed in different places using airbnb's, staying 3 - 4 months each time. He initially was going to retire in Colorado but decided in the end that it wasn't a good fit, and ultimately loved Reno. That will be his permanent residence. He just sold his condo after traveling around for two+ years. It seemed to work well for him. I'm not sure that I could do it, but he has stayed in some great places along the way.


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## Lydlady (Jul 12, 2018)

Interesting.  Looks like excellent choices in the top 5 and top 10.  Although I knew California would be toward the bottom, I don't know how it ranked 14 in terms of weather, and not 1,2, or 3.


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## Elan (Jul 12, 2018)

The weather ranking is largely just inversely proportional to the mean temp of the state.  I presume CA ranks as low as it does because it's a big state that doesn't all have San Diego's weather.  Same holds for Arizona.  Places like Flagstaff presumably offset the Phoenix or Tucson areas and drag the rating down.


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## bbodb1 (Jul 12, 2018)

Elan said:


> The weather ranking is largely just inversely proportional to the mean temp of the state.  I presume CA ranks as low as it does because it's a big state that doesn't all have San Diego's weather.  Same holds for Arizona.  *Places like Flagstaff presumably correct the Phoenix or Tucson areas and make life tolerable*.



FIFY!


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## bbodb1 (Jul 12, 2018)

The loons who rank the weather in Arkansas as the 9th best in the nation need to be shot on sight. 
Or forced to exist in this hades called summer in Arkansas. 
Without air conditioning.


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## Passepartout (Jul 12, 2018)

There are more 'Where to Retire/Live/Raise a Family' or whatever than you can take the time to read. I think every magazine publishes at least one of these articles every year. They gather a few surveys or parse out some statistics on weather/taxes/crime then mash 'em up and give 'em a score and spit out the 'winners and losers'.

So it is really up to the reader to apply their own 'weighting' to the statistics for themselves. For instance, if one has a lot of taxable income, a low-tax state might be their priority. If their health is marginal, maybe superior healthcare is what they want close by. If they enjoy outdoor activities, then predictable, mild climate might appeal.

And these articles have no way of quantifying the proximity to families. If someone's roots and all the family are in New England, those folks would be hard pressed to enjoy Southern California. Or if one loves the big city hustle and bustle of New York or Boston, they won't be happy in South Dakota.

It's fun to read the articles and wonder, 'what if...', but to be truly happy with a retirement move, I say to rent for 6-months or more before you commit. As was mentioned upthread, selling the family home and moving, only to find that something comes up that you hadn't taken into consideration that forces you sell and move again can be extremely costly.

Or, maybe be like a happy garden and "Bloom where you're planted". 

Jim


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## easyrider (Jul 12, 2018)

bbodb1 said:


> The loons who rank the weather in Arkansas as the 9th best in the nation need to be shot on sight.
> Or forced to exist in this hades called summer in Arkansas.
> Without air conditioning.



I think Arkansas is popular for retired military because Arkansas tax exempts military retirement pensions from State income tax. Arkansas is also a very good place to hunt feral pigs, fishing is decent and there are many outdoor activities. Even so, I don't think I would retire there because its not here. 

Is there a place in Arkansas with decent year round weather ?

Bill


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## DaveNV (Jul 12, 2018)

Passepartout said:


> It's fun to read the articles and wonder, 'what if...', but to be truly happy with a retirement move, I say to rent for 6-months or more before you commit. As was mentioned upthread, selling the family home and moving, only to find that something comes up that you hadn't taken into consideration that forces you sell and move again can be extremely costly.
> 
> Or, maybe be like a happy garden and "Bloom where you're planted".
> 
> Jim



I read articles like these, and compare my own experience in those states to what I think I'd want to deal with every day.  My time spent visiting these places has given me a real world perception of a lot of the common things about the state.

South Dakota is a relatively inexpensive state to live in, probably, but it can be blistering hot in summer, and dismally cold in winter.  You'd have to decide how you plan to spend your time, since retirement is about more than just where you sleep and shop.

Utah has been a go-to for me for a long time, and I do enjoy visiting there.  But I don't know if I'd want to live there.  I disagree with a lot of the political climate there, and my personal religious views aren't seriously compatible with a lot of Utah residents.  Add in the state income taxes assessed on my military retirement pension, and it adds up to a deal breaker for me. 

Topping my current list is Nevada.  No firm decision has been made, since I also like where I live in Washington state quite a bit.  This may come down to a snowbird thing, and an RV-visiting place for me.  Live here in Washington in Spring/Summer/Early Fall, and spend Winters somewhere south.

And then there's Mexico...  

Dave


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## bbodb1 (Jul 12, 2018)

easyrider said:


> I think Arkansas is popular for retired military because Arkansas tax exempts military retirement pensions from State income tax. Arkansas is also a very good place to hunt feral pigs, fishing is decent and there are many outdoor activities. Even so, I don't think I would retire there because its not here.
> 
> *Is there a place in Arkansas with decent year round weather* ?
> 
> Bill



No. 

Now I should disclose I am writing this as we endure another near 100 degree day with humidity in the 90 percent rage as well.  (Misspelling intentional...perhaps).

On a more useful note, what makes Arkansas weather just awful is the humidity - year round.  We all know how insufferable humidity with heat is, yet we don't often think about the humidity in winter - which we have here.  Even at humidity rates of 40 - 50%, a winter wind picks up that moisture and it will just knife through any clothing one has on.  We've all heard the jokes about heat being dry not being as insufferable, but there is a truth to it.  it also applies in winter too.  I've lived in the north (in Minnesota and Michigan - and in winters) and while they are cold, there is something very different about a winter in Arkansas that makes it uniquely miserable.  That difference is the humidity.  

We really don't have four distinct seasons in most of Arkansas.  It is either miserably hot (about 6-8 months each year), bone chilling, wind driven cold (for about 3-4 months) with a small period of transition between the  two extremes.  The point being spring and fall really don't exist (or last for very long if they do).  In the north, I recall spring and fall lasting several (glorious) weeks.  In Arkansas, you get about 5 days of transition between the extremes it seems.

Sorry to be so grouchy - it's the weather.....


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## bbodb1 (Jul 12, 2018)

Bill, 

I could also invoke the famous exchange between Lou Holtz and Frank Broyles to illustrate the point. 

_...from the SI Vault:......._


> ...Holtz hates cold weather; before accepting the Arkansas job he was told by Broyles that on many occasions in January he wouldn't need a coat in Fayetteville. "He was right,"says Holtz. "I needed a parka."...


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## Elan (Jul 12, 2018)

The granularity of state isn't nearly fine enough.  For instance, the difference in weather (and politics/culture) between Eastern and Western Oregon is immense.  Portland ≠ Ontario.  
  Having said that, these pieces do have some value in possibly opening some folks eyes to consider areas otherwise not on their radar.

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## DaveNV (Jul 12, 2018)

Elan said:


> The granularity of state isn't nearly fine enough.  For instance, the difference in weather (and politics/culture) between Eastern and Western Oregon is immense.  Portland ≠ Ontario.
> Having said that, these pieces do have some value in possibly opening some folks eyes to consider areas otherwise not on their radar.
> 
> Sent from my Moto G (5S) Plus using Tapatalk



Same here in Washington.  East and West of the Cascade Mountains are _*very*_ different areas, climatically, geographically, and politically.

Dave


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## Elan (Jul 12, 2018)

The South being ranked so highly for weather is surprising. Heat is good.  Heat with 90% humidity sucks. 
  Having said that, the culture would be harder to deal with than the humidity.  When I think of how backwards Idaho is at times, I put it all in perspective by considering some of the alternatives.

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## bbodb1 (Jul 12, 2018)

DaveNW said:


> Same here in Washington.  East and West of the Cascade Mountains are _*very*_ different areas, climatically, geographically, and politically.
> 
> Dave



But how about *in* the Cascades, Dave? 
What a wonderful place that was....I can't recall seeing mountains that steep at such low altitudes (such sheer faces starting around 5K feet or so).  Very beautiful area and I'm glad I got the chance to see them.


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## bbodb1 (Jul 12, 2018)

Elan said:


> The South being ranked so highly for weather is surprising. Heat is good.  Heat with 90% humidity sucks.
> Having said that, the culture would be harder to deal with than the humidity.  *When I think of how backwards Idaho is at times*, I put it all in perspective by considering some of the alternatives.
> 
> Sent from my Moto G (5S) Plus using Tapatalk



How so (is Idaho backwards) may I ask?


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## PamMo (Jul 12, 2018)

I've lived a bit of a wanderlust life. My parents lived in two countries before settling in the U.S., and my husband and I moved 8 times in our first 13 years of marriage. Over the years, we've moved for jobs (military and private sector), to do what we thought was best for our children (left Seattle and San Francisco to raise our kids in the country outside of Hell's Canyon), and to help aging parents in their last years. We've learned we can be very happy anywhere.

These Best Places lists are interesting, but seem to be mostly about selling a magazine or getting eyeballs for a website. They provide jumping off points for the concerned, curious, and adventurous. I have siblings looking at retiring around the country and overseas. Everyone is looking for a good fit, but each has different priorities. We've been retired three years and haven't found that perfect "final home" yet, but it sure is fun exploring the options!


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## bbodb1 (Jul 12, 2018)

PamMo said:


> I've lived a bit of a wanderlust life. My parents lived in two countries before settling in the U.S., and my husband and I moved 8 times in our first 13 years of marriage. Over the years, we've moved for jobs (military and private sector), to do what we thought was best for our children (left Seattle and San Francisco *to raise our kids in the country outside of Hell's Canyon*), and to help aging parents in their last years. We've learned we can be very happy anywhere.
> 
> These Best Places lists are interesting, but seem to be mostly about selling a magazine or getting eyeballs for a website. They provide jumping off points for the concerned, curious, and adventurous. I have siblings looking at retiring around the country and overseas. Everyone is looking for a good fit, but each has different priorities. We've been retired three years and haven't found that perfect "final home" yet, but it sure is fun exploring the options!



That area looks incredible!  Adding it to future destinations list - thank you Pam!


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## Elan (Jul 12, 2018)

bbodb1 said:


> How so (is Idaho backwards) may I ask?


I think I'd violate Tug policy if I answered honestly, but let's just say that Jeff Foxworthy could get plenty of new material up here 

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## pittle (Jul 12, 2018)

bbodb1 said:


> No.
> 
> Now I should disclose I am writing this as we endure another near 100 degree day with humidity in the 90 percent rage as well.  (Misspelling intentional...perhaps).
> 
> ...




I totally understand!  I lived in Arkansas from age 5-21 (hubby birth-23) and as one of my brothers has said more than once - the smart people leave!  All 4 of us kids left for jobs outside of Arkansas.  We only went back to visit the parents and tried our best to get there during the few weeks of spring or fall.   The mosquitoes are awful in the summer too! When we retired, it was never on either of our lists for moving to.  We chose AZ as one son was here and the other one wanted to move here.  It is hot in the summer but we find cooler places to visit then.  The weather is nice 8 months of the year and taxes are much lower than Kansas or Missouri - no taxes on Pensions, vehicle taxes are lower than KS & MO and real estate taxes are not too bad - we have had proportionately higher ones elsewhere.


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## DaveNV (Jul 12, 2018)

bbodb1 said:


> But how about *in* the Cascades, Dave?
> What a wonderful place that was....I can't recall seeing mountains that steep at such low altitudes (such sheer faces starting around 5K feet or so).  Very beautiful area and I'm glad I got the chance to see them.



There is no doubt at all that the scenery is incredible.  Western Washington is a remarkable place to live (No offense meant to Eastern Washingtonians.)  Within just a few miles of where I live, Bald Eagles gather to take salmon from a river. There are viewing areas where dozens can be seen at one time.  Heading another direction, it's a common sight to go whale watching and see Orca whale pods on a daily basis.  Mule deer wander through my front yard, rabbits raise babies in my back yard, squirrels live in my 200-foot tall trees, and all of them like to eat my rose bushes.  Hawks cruise on the thermals above the grassy fields across the road from my home.  Nature lives in, and loves Washington.

But so does rain.  People here don't tan - they rust.  It can be overcast and grey and cloudy for *DAYS* at a time, sometimes *WEEKS* at a time, keeping residents prisoners in their own homes.  It can sprinkle, drizzle, rain, pour, and torrentially downpour, all on the same day, and not necessarily in that order.  In Winter, add in days or weeks of near-freezing weather, maybe mixed with just enough freezing temps to turn roads to black ice, and never quite cold enough to have a "decent" Winter.  It gets very, very old, with no sign it will ever change.

When it's not raining here, it's extraordinary.  The problem is, it rains a lot.  And by a lot, I mean for example:  In 2017, we went from October to April without seeing a true blue-sky sunny day.  Think about that.  By the numbers:  "Of the 178 days that had passed since the water year began [October 1st to March], Seattle had 123 with rain or snow, 149 with more than 70 percent cloud cover, and just nine -- that's *nine*, as in two more than a week -- with less than 30 percent cloud cover."

Quote above taken from this article:  https://www.seattlepi.com/local/wea...most-no-sunny-days-since-October-11034669.php

The struggle is real.  And so is being a snowbird. 

Dave


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## bbodb1 (Jul 12, 2018)

Elan said:


> I think I'd violate Tug policy if I answered honestly, but let's just say that Jeff Foxworthy could get plenty of new material up here
> 
> Sent from my Moto G (5S) Plus using Tapatalk



Now you're peaking my curiosity!  How about this - can you point me toward a website or two that illustrates this?


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## bbodb1 (Jul 12, 2018)

pittle said:


> I totally understand!  I lived in Arkansas from age 5-21 (hubby birth-23) and as one of my brothers has said more than once - the smart people leave!  All 4 of us kids left for jobs outside of Arkansas.  We only went back to visit the parents and tried our best to get there during the few weeks of spring or fall.   The mosquitoes are awful in the summer too! When we retired, it was never on either of our lists for moving to.  We chose AZ as one son was here and the other one wanted to move here.  It is hot in the summer but we find cooler places to visit then.  The weather is nice 8 months of the year and taxes are much lower than Kansas or Missouri - no taxes on Pensions, vehicle taxes are lower than KS & MO and real estate taxes are not too bad - we have had proportionately higher ones elsewhere.


Thanks for that info, Phyllis.  I have to admit the Flagstaff area appeals to me but I do want to spend some time there to really check it out.  Our trip to Arizona last year was spectacular but I was surprised how bad of shape the roads (even the interstates) were.


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## Elan (Jul 12, 2018)

At least in Oregon, the Eastern downslope of the Cascades is quite nice...transitional area between the rainy Western half and the dry, high desert Eastern half.  The Western side is quite pretty (I've lived in Corvallis and Portland), but a rain jacket would come before underwear on one's clothes shopping list.  I honestly don't think I could do Western Oregon anymore.

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## Elan (Jul 12, 2018)

bbodb1 said:


> Thanks for that info, Phyllis.  I have to admit the Flagstaff area appeals to me but I do want to spend some time there to really check it out.  Our trip to Arizona last year was spectacular but I was surprised how bad of shape the roads (even the interstates) were.


I've never been to Flagstaff, but I've often thought that there must be some nice country north of Phoenix, yet south of Sedona.  Flagstaff is at 7000ft, so it's got to get cold and snowy, which is fine if it's short lived.  Just don't know.

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## Elan (Jul 12, 2018)

bbodb1 said:


> Now you're peaking my curiosity!  How about this - can you point me toward a website or two that illustrates this?


I don't know if any websites that illustrate some of the downsides.  But a little googling of low education levels, historical voting patterns and white supremacists would be a good place to start.  

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## DaveNV (Jul 12, 2018)

Elan said:


> I've never been to Flagstaff, but I've often thought that there must be some nice country north of Phoenix, yet south of Sedona.  Flagstaff is at 7000ft, so it's got to get cold and snowy, which is fine if it's short lived.  Just don't know.
> 
> Sent from my Moto G (5S) Plus using Tapatalk




My strongest recollection of Flagstaff is the wind.  It can be VERY windy there.

Dave


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## Elan (Jul 12, 2018)

That's good to know.  I'm not a fan of wind, nor are my tee shots.  ️





DaveNW said:


> My strongest recollection of Flagstaff is the wind.  It can be VERY windy there.
> 
> Dave



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## Blues (Jul 12, 2018)

DaveNW said:


> When it's not raining here, it's extraordinary.  The problem is, it rains a lot.



Yes, I've always said that when it's not raining, Seattle is one of the most beautiful places on earth.  Both days of the year


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## Passepartout (Jul 12, 2018)

bbodb1 said:


> How so (is Idaho backwards) may I ask?


Well, its soooo politically flaming red that there is exactly zero statewide seats held by someone (thing) else. There are pockets of sanity, but they can't overcome the majority, and Idaho has the second highest concentrations of Mormons. Nice people, but..... Oh, and about diversity. Not much of it here. We're pretty much minor variations on plain vanilla. We like the occasional chocolate chip, but they are kind of few and far between.- And welcome. Though some of Idaho's history contradicts this. That said, and to your beef with Arkansas... We outlawed humidity. Anything over 20% gets sent East. Here's the tourism site. Nice pix.  https://visitidaho.org

Jim


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## dsmrp (Jul 12, 2018)

I like that Hawaii is overall high on the list (11th), don't like the scraping bottom for cost.  what else is new??
Not sure I could live in Hawaii full time, and have gotten used to Seattle gray.
I think ideal for me would be 6 months in each place, but then DH whittled that down to 2-3 months Hawaii/rest in Seattle.
Also not sure if we could live with my occasionally bossy older brother in the family homestead tho' 
We'd be doing the maintenance work around the place and he would be wanting to direct it


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## bbodb1 (Jul 12, 2018)

Passepartout said:


> Well, its soooo politically flaming red that there is exactly zero statewide seats held by someone (thing) else. There are pockets of sanity, but they can't overcome the majority, and Idaho has the second highest concentrations of Mormons. Nice people, but..... That said, and to your best with Arkansas... We outlawed humidity. Anything over 20% gets sent East. Here's the tourism site. Nice pix.  https://visitidaho.org
> 
> Jim



I am liking the sound of this - got to visit here!  The American west is where at.  Beautiful scenery!


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## easyrider (Jul 12, 2018)

Passepartout said:


> Well, its soooo politically flaming red that there is exactly zero statewide seats held by someone (thing) else. There are pockets of sanity, but they can't overcome the majority, and Idaho has the second highest concentrations of Mormons. Nice people, but..... That said, and to your best with Arkansas... We outlawed humidity. Anything over 20% gets sent East. Here's the tourism site. Nice pix.  https://visitidaho.org
> 
> Jim



I haven't figured out how Idaho make these list yet. It gets very boring over there in that beautiful nature. Maybe its the boredom that is the cause of Idaho having such a high rate of suicide. It must be retired people that move into Idaho that is the cause of the high suicide rate. People that live in Idaho all their life are use to Idaho.

Personally, I like Northern Idaho alot.

Bill


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## DaveNV (Jul 12, 2018)

dsmrp said:


> I like that Hawaii is overall high on the list (11th), don't like the scraping bottom for cost.  what else is new??
> Not sure I could live in Hawaii full time, and have gotten used to Seattle gray.
> I think ideal for me would be 6 months in each place, but then DH whittled that down to 2-3 months Hawaii/rest in Seattle.
> Also not sure if we could live with my occasionally bossy older brother in the family homestead tho'
> We'd be doing the maintenance work around the place and he would be wanting to direct it



We must be related. 

Dave


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## bbodb1 (Jul 12, 2018)

Elan said:


> That's good to know.  I'm not a fan of wind, nor are my tee shots.  ️
> 
> Sent from my Moto G (5S) Plus using Tapatalk



Speaking of which, the Open is coming!


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## pittle (Jul 13, 2018)

Elan said:


> I've never been to Flagstaff, but I've often thought that there must be some nice country north of Phoenix, yet south of Sedona.  Flagstaff is at 7000ft, so it's got to get cold and snowy, which is fine if it's short lived.  Just don't know.
> 
> Sent from my Moto G (5S) Plus using Tapatalk



Prescott is a nice town and is south of Sedona.


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## dsmrp (Jul 13, 2018)

DaveNW said:


> We must be related.
> 
> Dave



calabash cousins for sure!


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## WinniWoman (Jul 13, 2018)

DaveNW said:


> There is no doubt at all that the scenery is incredible.  Western Washington is a remarkable place to live (No offense meant to Eastern Washingtonians.)  Within just a few miles of where I live, Bald Eagles gather to take salmon from a river. There are viewing areas where dozens can be seen at one time.  Heading another direction, it's a common sight to go whale watching and see Orca whale pods on a daily basis.  Mule deer wander through my front yard, rabbits raise babies in my back yard, squirrels live in my 200-foot tall trees, and all of them like to eat my rose bushes.  Hawks cruise on the thermals above the grassy fields across the road from my home.  Nature lives in, and loves Washington.
> 
> But so does rain.  People here don't tan - they rust.  It can be overcast and grey and cloudy for *DAYS* at a time, sometimes *WEEKS* at a time, keeping residents prisoners in their own homes.  It can sprinkle, drizzle, rain, pour, and torrentially downpour, all on the same day, and not necessarily in that order.  In Winter, add in days or weeks of near-freezing weather, maybe mixed with just enough freezing temps to turn roads to black ice, and never quite cold enough to have a "decent" Winter.  It gets very, very old, with no sign it will ever change.
> 
> ...




No way could I ever live in a place- no matter how beautiful- without sunshine at least 1/2 the time. But- the greenery must be awesome with all that rain. I can't live anywhere where there is no greenery either. New England is a nice balance of sun and green. Yeah- winter is as long as spring/summer/fall. OK -the mountains are not like out West. But the White and Green Mountains or Adirondacks are good enough for me. Plenty of wildlife. And there is coastline as well. Now if something could just be done about the cost of housing and taxes, especially school and property.


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## WinniWoman (Jul 13, 2018)

bbodb1 said:


> No.
> 
> Now I should disclose I am writing this as we endure another near 100 degree day with humidity in the 90 percent rage as well.  (Misspelling intentional...perhaps).
> 
> ...




Sounds like hell! Get out of there!


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## Elan (Jul 13, 2018)

Yeah, I've been through Prescott.  Was nice enough.  About 2 hours to Phoenix, which isn't bad.  



pittle said:


> Prescott is a nice town and is south of Sedona.



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## bbodb1 (Jul 13, 2018)

mpumilia said:


> Sounds like hell! Get out of there!



Perhaps my goal should be from hell to hell (Hell's Canyon, ID that is)!


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## Passepartout (Jul 13, 2018)

bbodb1 said:


> Perhaps my goal should be from hell to hell (Hell's Canyon, ID that is)!


I added a little more to my Idaho post. You might peek at it. My mobile TUG doesn't give thread numbers, but it isn't hard to find.


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## DaveNV (Jul 13, 2018)

mpumilia said:


> No way could I ever live in a place- no matter how beautiful- without sunshine at least 1/2 the time. But- the greenery must be awesome with all that rain. I can't live anywhere where there is no greenery either. New England is a nice balance of sun and green. Yeah- winter is as long as spring/summer/fall. OK -the mountains are not like out West. But the White and Green Mountains or Adirondacks are good enough for me. Plenty of wildlife. And there is coastline as well. Now if something could just be done about the cost of housing and taxes, especially school and property.



Our greenery is quite different than East Coast greenery.  Our forests tend to be mainly evergreen trees, where East Coast forests tend to be mainly deciduous.  Our mountains are younger, so tend to be much higher, and many are snowcapped year-round.  The fact that the major mountains are also volcanoes is a point not to be overlooked.   The outdoors here is more "raw," I think, than on the East Coast.  But having said that, colors in Fall in New England are remarkable. It's a different kind of Nature, but it's great in both areas.

Dave


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## WinniWoman (Jul 13, 2018)

DaveNW said:


> Our greenery is quite different than East Coast greenery.  Our forests tend to be mainly evergreen trees, where East Coast forests tend to be mainly deciduous.  Our mountains are younger, so tend to be much higher, and many are snowcapped year-round.  The fact that the major mountains are also volcanoes is a point not to be overlooked.   The outdoors here is more "raw," I think, than on the East Coast.  But having said that, colors in Fall in New England are remarkable. It's a different kind of Nature, but it's great in both areas.
> 
> Dave




Yes. Actually, the White Mountains are younger than the green and have a similarity to the ones I saw in Colorado in terms of the granite. And - northern NH and parts of VT- actually have a lot of evergreen trees- one of the things I love about them- and also birch tress (like Colorado has the aspens). Some of the Whites are/were volcanoes too.

I always say NH is more rugged and VT is softer. The Adirondacks are kind of in between.


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## DaveNV (Jul 13, 2018)

mpumilia said:


> Some of the Whites are/were volcanoes too.



Aah, but do yours blow their tops, like ours do?  

Dave


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## chellej (Jul 13, 2018)

When we started thinking about places to retire, DH researched and the result was Sandpoint Idaho.  Winters average 32 degrees and not too much snow so we bought 40 acres about 20 miles from Sandpoint.  Then a happy coincidence, I found a job in Olympia Washington and within 6 months was able to move to the Spokane office.  We live about 20 miles north of Spokane...on the RIGHT side of the state.....both politically and geographically.  So now we are 2 hours door to door. And it is beautiful country.  I have been amazed at how beautiful Washington is.  An added plus...no state income tax in Washington


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## billymach4 (Jul 14, 2018)

Passepartout said:


> Well, its soooo politically flaming red that there is exactly zero statewide seats held by someone (thing) else. There are pockets of sanity, but they can't overcome the majority, and Idaho has the second highest concentrations of Mormons. Nice people, but..... Oh, and about diversity. Not much of it here. We're pretty much minor variations on plain vanilla. We like the occasional chocolate chip, but they are kind of few and far between.- And welcome. Though some of Idaho's history contradicts this. That said, and to your beef with Arkansas... We outlawed humidity. Anything over 20% gets sent East. Here's the tourism site. Nice pix.  https://visitidaho.org
> 
> Jim



Watch this YouTube...... Also pay attention to the way some of the people in this interview pronounce Boise.


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## WinniWoman (Jul 14, 2018)

chellej said:


> When we started thinking about places to retire, DH researched and the result was Sandpoint Idaho.  Winters average 32 degrees and not too much snow so we bought 40 acres about 20 miles from Sandpoint.  Then a happy coincidence, I found a job in Olympia Washington and within 6 months was able to move to the Spokane office.  We live about 20 miles north of Spokane...on the RIGHT side of the state.....both politically and geographically.  So now we are 2 hours door to door. And it is beautiful country.  I have been amazed at how beautiful Washington is.  An added plus...no state income tax in Washington



So you bought 40 acres in Idaho but live in Washington?


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## bbodb1 (Jul 14, 2018)

Hopefully Idaho will survive the transplants unspoiled and unchanged.  Those leaving California cause this type of reaction just about every where they go because of their effect on house/land prices - this is not an isolated problem in Idaho.

Controlled growth is becoming an issue in places where this was previous not an issue though.  And it will take some planning to control but if a community or state wants to maintain their identity planning is essential.

Articles like this remind us that if we one day become transplants in another state, we should embrace that which makes the state/area unique.


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## DaveNV (Jul 14, 2018)

bbodb1 said:


> Hopefully Idaho will survive the transplants unspoiled and unchanged.  Those leaving California cause this type of reaction just about every where they go because of their effect on house/land prices - this is not an isolated problem in Idaho.



It's easy to bash Californians, since they're the largest group moving in, but to be fair, the underlying question is about change to the status quo for long-time residents in the community. Californians are the largest group of transplants, but it's not all about them.

Back in the 1980s I bought a cabin on Orcas Island, in Washington State's San Juan Islands.  This is an area easily seen from where I spent most of my childhood, so was kind of in my backyard.  The cabin wasn't finished, and the acreage it came with had no utilities.  I spent the money the previous owner hadn't, and turned the cabin into a nice home.  I put in the septic and drilled a well, brought in electric, and made the entire property into a great place to live.  I made every effort to not change the footprint of what was already there, so I could enjoy the Earthy-harmony of the property being part of the ambiance of the island.  When I retired from the military I moved there, and did my best to fit in.  It was great.

Over the next several years there was an invasion of new people from out of state.  I presume the bulk were from California, as that was the common comment made around the island.  The biggest argument against these newcomers was the observation that many had come to the San Juans on vacation, loved the rustic appeal, and decided to move there.  They'd buy a plot of land, clear-cut the timber so they could build an urban-styled McMansion, chain-link fence the whole place, and then constantly complain that the deer were eating their plants, and how the place felt different than it was before.  They objected to no availability of "big city" services like fast-food restaurants and 24-hour grocery stores, (on an island with no stop lights.)  Many took advantage of the low-key, generous attitudes of many of the residents.  Lots of the transplants were part-time Islanders, who wanted to stop development of the Islands, so others couldn't enjoy what they already had.  But once they had developed their own property, they spent their money off-island.   There was a lot of resentment from long-term Islanders toward a lot of the newcomers, for the same reasons as mentioned in the video posted above.

Growth is never easy, especially in an area that becomes the recipient of unexpected notoriety.  (The tiny community of Forks, Washington, was completely overwhelmed when they were overrun with people after the Twilight movies came out. ) So it's very easy to adopt a "Not in my back yard" mentality.  I kept my property for nine years, and left the island after selling  - to a transplanted Californian.

Dave


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## bbodb1 (Jul 14, 2018)

Having visited San Juan Island on our recent trip (even if only for about an hour and a half as part of a planned break/rest stop on a whale watching tour), it is very easy to see the allure of the place.  When we retire, one goal I have is to NOT move what we have here to wherever we go as many people do.  I'm NOT talking about physical items as much as I am a way of life - our goal is to embrace the place we choose because of the aspects that make a place special (and alluring).  We want to move to our chosen place based on what it is - not what we can transform it to.

Why try and change what attracted you to a new location in the first place?  In the case of the islands around (and including) San Juan - what a gorgeous area!


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## chellej (Jul 14, 2018)

mpumilia said:


> So you bought 40 acres in Idaho but live in Washington?


Yes...I work for Wa DOH.  We are very close to the Idaho border.  Idaho has State income tax, Washington does not.  If we lived on the other side, we would have to pay state income tax.  We are building a log cabin on the acreage and it is 2 hours door to door so we go often.   Don't know if we will live there or here once we retire.


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## DaveNV (Jul 14, 2018)

bbodb1 said:


> Having visited San Juan Island on our recent trip (even if only for about an hour and a half as part of a planned break/rest stop on a whale watching tour), it is very easy to see the allure of the place.  When we retire, one goal I have is to NOT move what we have here to wherever we go as many people do.  I'm NOT talking about physical items as much as I am a way of life - our goal is to embrace the place we choose because of the aspects that make a place special (and alluring).  We want to move to our chosen place based on what it is - not what we can transform it to.
> 
> Why try and change what attracted you to a new location in the first place?  In the case of the islands around (and including) San Juan - what a gorgeous area!



I agree with you. But unfortunately, a lot of people don't have that foresight.  When I lived on Orcas, which is very close to San Juan island, tourists would often ask me where the busy night spots were.  I'd laugh and tell them there aren't any.  It's an area where they'd roll up the sidewalks, if there were any.

I travel to Hawaii a lot, and enjoy visiting there.  I've often thought "what if?" questions about retiring there.  But after thoroughly researching things, I decided living in Hawaii would be less satisfying than visiting there.  True, if you live there, you can enjoy the things that are great about visiting there.  But as a resident, there are costs and inconveniences that overshadow a lot of the pleasure of visiting, when every day is a day off.  I'd rather visit, help contribute to the local economy with my tourist dollars, and then come back home till the next trip.  If I tried to live there, I think my enjoyment level would be much lower.

I don't know if there is an easy answer to the initial question.  If you find it, let me know.  

Dave


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## chellej (Jul 14, 2018)

bbodb1 said:


> Having visited San Juan Island on our recent trip (even if only for about an hour and a half as part of a planned break/rest stop on a whale watching tour), it is very easy to see the allure of the place.  When we retire, one goal I have is to NOT move what we have here to wherever we go as many people do.  I'm NOT talking about physical items as much as I am a way of life - our goal is to embrace the place we choose because of the aspects that make a place special (and alluring).  We want to move to our chosen place based on what it is - not what we can transform it to.
> 
> Why try and change what attracted you to a new location in the first place?  In the case of the islands around (and including) San Juan - what a gorgeous area!


My DD lived on Orcas for about a year and a half.  Went to be a naturalist with one of the whale watch companies.  She got disillusioned with them very quickly.  Lived on a sailboat the time she was there and loved being able to take her kayak from the dock and really enjoyed the wildlife.

What she did not like was dealing with the ferries.  It made a simple errand into an all-day affair.  She's at flight school now for the coast guard and would love to be stationed at Port Angeles when she finishes....time will tell.


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## bbodb1 (Jul 14, 2018)

chellej said:


> My DD lived on Orcas for about a year and a half.  Went to be a naturalist with one of the whale watch companies.  She got disillusioned with them very quickly.  Lived on a sailboat the time she was there and loved being able to take her kayak from the dock and really enjoyed the wildlife.
> 
> What she did not like was dealing with the ferries.  It made a simple errand into an all-day affair.  She's at flight school now for the coast guard and would love to be stationed at Port Angeles when she finishes....time will tell.



Hey!  Our DD is in the Coast Guard as well - currently stationed at Atlantic City (boat station though, not the air station).  She's only been in for just over a half year and is waiting the long wait for A School. 
I am envious of the opportunity your DD had to live there (like Dave's cabin) but I can see the flip side of it as well.  I would think that living on the island would mean a person would become a very efficient trip planner to make the most out of trips to the mainland!  In our case, if we were to end up here, we'd be retired but given the prices of the real estate listings we saw as we were walking through town this is not likely.

How was life there in the winter?


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## DaveNV (Jul 14, 2018)

chellej said:


> My DD lived on Orcas for about a year and a half.
> 
> What she did not like was dealing with the ferries.  It made a simple errand into an all-day affair.





bbodb1 said:


> I am envious of the opportunity your DD had to live there (like Dave's cabin) but I can see the flip side of it as well.  I would think that living on the island would mean a person would become a very efficient trip planner to make the most out of trips to the mainland!  In our case, if we were to end up here, we'd be retired but given the prices of the real estate listings we saw as we were walking through town this is not likely.



My decision to leave the island was mainly because of the ferries.  In addition to the cost, which added up quickly, it was a precarious way to live.  I had started a computer service and repair business on the island, (pre-Internet days), and everything had to be picked up, or shipped in.  If I left the island on a given day, I had a schedule I had to keep, to visit my suppliers, pick up what I needed, and get back to the ferry landing in time to catch a boat home.  The ferry ride was about 90 minutes, in addition to waiting in line to get on the boat.  Everything was tied to the ferry schedule, and if it got out of sync, my days were a nightmare.  Visits to my parents' home were stressful, as I had to keep one eye on the clock.  "Sorry, Mom, I can't stay for dinner. I have a boat to catch." I hated that.

I now live on the mainland, where I can come and go as I please.  It's very nice to know I do not have to rely on a ferry to live my life.



bbodb1 said:


> How was life there in the winter?



Winter time on the island was very quiet.  Many shops are closed for the season, and the shop owners went to warmer climates.  Those year-round residents hunker down and enjoy the peace and quiet, but also deal with living on an island.

Winter storms brought a new wrinkle to things.  We had "100 year storms" two years in a row, and power was out for days at a time all over the island. I went without power for nine days at my place one year.  During one storm, thousands of trees fell all over the island, and roads were blocked till residents could clear them.  Everybody drove with a chainsaw in the trunk of their cars. People had to be resourceful to survive.

I loved the beauty and peaceful life there, but hated being so cut off from the world sometimes.  I would not live there full time again.

Dave


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## klpca (Jul 14, 2018)

DaveNW said:


> I travel to Hawaii a lot, and enjoy visiting there.  I've often thought "what if?" questions about retiring there.  But after thoroughly researching things, I decided living in Hawaii would be less satisfying than visiting there.  True, if you live there, you can enjoy the things that are great about visiting there.  But as a resident, there are costs and inconveniences that overshadow a lot of the pleasure of visiting, when every day is a day off.  I'd rather visit, help contribute to the local economy with my tourist dollars, and then come back home till the next trip.  If I tried to live there, I think my enjoyment level would be much lower.
> 
> Dave


We've had the same thought about Hawaii but if we live there, then I'm pretty sure that the magic will evaporate. Try subscribing to the local news/newspaper for awhile and all of the sudden you notice the same issues that you have at home...crime, high prices, crazy laws, crazy government officials lol, yadda yadda. One reality check - last month I went shopping at Foodland. I bought produce, butter, cheese, coffee filters, soy sauce, some La Croix and not much else. Other than the La Croix, everything fit in one grocery bag. The cost was $80. Talk about sticker shock.


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## DaveNV (Jul 14, 2018)

klpca said:


> We've had the same thought about Hawaii but if we live there, then I'm pretty sure that the magic will evaporate. Try subscribing to the local news/newspaper for awhile and all of the sudden you notice the same issues that you have at home...crime, high prices, crazy laws, crazy government officials lol, yadda yadda. One reality check - last month I went shopping at Foodland. I bought produce, butter, cheese, coffee filters, soy sauce, some La Croix and not much else. Other than the La Croix, everything fit in one grocery bag. The cost was $80. Talk about sticker shock.



And every time you leave the island, you have to get on a plane or ship, at large expense. I don't want to be that restricted.  (See my post above about living in the San Juan Islands.) It gets old, fast.

Dave


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## Passepartout (Jul 14, 2018)

Elan said:


> I honestly don't think I could do Western Oregon anymore./
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## Elan (Jul 14, 2018)

Yep.  I like to be outdoors too much to deal with that again.  And I didn't even golf when I lived there. 
 I remember scheduling the graduation party for our engineering class for mid to late June and having to find a park with a gazebo in case it rained.  It rained.  
Sent from my Moto G (5S) Plus using Tapatalk


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## chellej (Jul 14, 2018)

bbodb1 said:


> Hey!  Our DD is in the Coast Guard as well - currently stationed at Atlantic City (boat station though, not the air station).  She's only been in for just over a half year and is waiting the long wait for A School.
> 
> How was life there in the winter?


 DD was very lucky...she got into OCS on her first try from the civilian side  and got flight school.  She did struggle with the military side of things at ocs but got through it.  I hope your DD gets A school.

Winter on a sailboat was absolutely miserable for her.  She was glad to have only spent one winter there


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## klpca (Jul 14, 2018)

DaveNW said:


> And every time you leave the island, you have to get on a plane or ship, at large expense. I don't want to be that restricted.  (See my post above about living in the San Juan Islands.) It gets old, fast.
> 
> Dave


That's my number one issue. Getting anywhere is a pain. Even to other islands. It's just not the place for me but I know that it is home for others and understand their love of the island.


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## WinniWoman (Jul 14, 2018)

DaveNW said:


> I agree with you. But unfortunately, a lot of people don't have that foresight.  When I lived on Orcas, which is very close to San Juan island, tourists would often ask me where the busy night spots were.  I'd laugh and tell them there aren't any.  It's an area where they'd roll up the sidewalks, if there were any.
> 
> I travel to Hawaii a lot, and enjoy visiting there.  I've often thought "what if?" questions about retiring there.  But after thoroughly researching things, I decided living in Hawaii would be less satisfying than visiting there.  True, if you live there, you can enjoy the things that are great about visiting there.  But as a resident, there are costs and inconveniences that overshadow a lot of the pleasure of visiting, when every day is a day off.  I'd rather visit, help contribute to the local economy with my tourist dollars, and then come back home till the next trip.  If I tried to live there, I think my enjoyment level would be much lower.
> 
> ...




This is a very interesting perspective, Dave, and one I have considered and am going to ponder for a while about my special places.


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## DaveNV (Jul 14, 2018)

mpumilia said:


> This is a very interesting perception, Dave, and one I have considered and am going to ponder for a while about my special places.



Don't get me wrong - I love Hawaii, more than anywhere I've ever traveled. Every time I step off the plane, I feel like I'm coming home. But the struggles to afford to live there, the cost of everything, the infrastructure costs of rent and utilities, taxes, insurance, and the tenuous connection to ships and planes for everything there, all adds up very quickly.

Last Fall I was considering taking a job with Marriott's IT on Kauai. The position was written as if they'd read my resume.  I knew I'd be a shoe-in for getting the position.  But then I researched the expense of trying to live on Kauai.  There was 1 (yes, only ONE) two-bedroom rental apartment advertised in Lihue at the time.  The rent was $2300 a month, plus all utilities, which I understand were running around $800 per month.  No assigned parking, no laundry, and no pets.  

Multiply all that by all the other costs of moving there, (shipping possessions or replacing things like furniture and such, shipping or buying a car, figuring out how to deal with my two dogs and a cat, and everything it takes to relocate like that, and it was just too much to deal with.  I didn't want to sell my house here, in case the job there didn't work out.  What if I hated it?  What if they hated me?  There was a substantial raise involved over what I make here, (like a 25% raise), but I already own everything here.  That raise would have been eaten up completely just trying to get something going over there.  And once I was settled in, the extra cost of day-to-day living would roughly break even with what I'm making where I am now.  I finally withdrew my application, because I could see it was just not a good fit for me.  If I was earlier in my working career, maybe I'd have made a different choice.  But so close to retiring, it's just too great a risk.

I made the decision then that instead of living there, I'd rather visit Hawaii on my terms, where every day is a day off, and the hardest thing I might have to deal with is a traffic jam on the highway while I'm heading somewhere.  I can enjoy my time there to the fullest, then get on a plane and fly home.  It just makes the best sense for me.

Dave


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## slip (Jul 14, 2018)

I am seriously considering retiring to Hawaii. I have been saying for years now that the plan is to retire there but if we can’t make that work we will snowbird there.

I have been finding the same thing Dave was finding while researching Kauai. I still have about seven years to work but I’m not against moving and working there.

We even checked the Big Island and Maui but those weren’t high choices and weren’t much better as far as housing is concerned. I have moved three times in my life and every time it was to a smaller town.

One thing we did find in our checking everything was that Molokai is an viable option for us. So much so that we just came back from there and we were looking at places. It’s not for everyone, there’s not much there but that’s the appeal to us. It’s amazing to us that besides our trips, we pretty much just stay home. While you never know until you try something, we think this is worth trying.

We’ve been working on deciding between properties for the last few months. We’re down to about five different properties right now. After all the research, I may even be able to retire a couple years earlier, we’ll see.


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## WinniWoman (Jul 15, 2018)

DaveNW said:


> Don't get me wrong - I love Hawaii, more than anywhere I've ever traveled. Every time I step off the plane, I feel like I'm coming home. But the struggles to afford to live there, the cost of everything, the infrastructure costs of rent and utilities, taxes, insurance, and the tenuous connection to ships and planes for everything there, all adds up very quickly.
> 
> Last Fall I was considering taking a job with Marriott's IT on Kauai. The position was written as if they'd read my resume.  I knew I'd be a shoe-in for getting the position.  But then I researched the expense of trying to live on Kauai.  There was 1 (yes, only ONE) two-bedroom rental apartment advertised in Lihue at the time.  The rent was $2300 a month, plus all utilities, which I understand were running around $800 per month.  No assigned parking, no laundry, and no pets.
> 
> ...




I absolutely get it. (I love Kauai also and I cried when we left there on our second visit).

But in terms of what you are saying- I feel the same way about Vermont, which we have been visiting well over 20 years. Living in NY we are used to paying high taxes, but at least here our SS and IRA income will not be taxed by the state when we retire. Vermont taxes everything, including estates when you pass. This just rubs me the wrong way and is a deal breaker as far as I am concerned. But it breaks my heart as well.

So-we are considering NH because we also visit there every year (6 hour drive form our home in NY), we like it a lot, there is a political movement going on there, too, which we follow, and our son lives there and it is close to VT (and our timeshare at Smuggs and in NH itself we have a timeshare as well), and not that far from NY if we ever want to come back to visit people.

But- The housing prices are high for what you get and the property taxes are no bargain, though a bit less in NH than NY. It will be hard to find the right place comparing it with what we have in terms of modern conveniences. A lot of inventory there in our price range seems to be stuck in the 80's. I'm not giving up our home to buy something that isn't as nice and comfortable and needs work. No way as we approach our 70s! Smaller and less upkeep is what we want; modern; in a community with a pool and clubhouse and activities going on. Not easy to find there.

And I get a headache just thinking about selling our home and the associated costs and then moving and the cost of that and all the logistics.But we really will need to move because here we are isolated and that is not good for us as we age. Family and friends are not nearby here either (long drives), though we have acquaintances around and through Facebook. (I know, FB-sad).

Anyhow, our son's employer asked him if he would consider moving to California since they fly him out West every other month or so where "his" accounts are. He loves California- the beaches- he loves doing his morning run on them- the breweries and restaurants and the weather and scenery, etc. He asked me about it and I told him to think carefully as he has made a life where he lives- friends and so on. He will also be very far away from us. Airfare is expensive for both of us.

I told him they would have to pay him a lot of money- that California is very expensive to live in. Also- if something happens with the job he could be "stuck" out there. My very well off brother who traveled his whole life for his work even said he would never move somewhere just for a job. Too risky. Our son decided to stay put- he doesn't really like change anyway. I think it is a good, practical decision. Plus- he loves snow, too!

My brother, who also lives in NY, just sold a condo he owned in Florida and bought a home there on the water instead- same area as the condo. He and his wife went down a couple of weeks ago and the house needed some repairs and to my surprise he came back in a gloomy mood. Said he really did not want to deal with repairs on a house and so on. (he has the money, so that can't be the issue). Now this is in his happy place where he would love to even live full time as opposed to being a snowbird only. He actually came back depressed- there could be more going on I don't know about- not sure. But here I though he would be so happy. Goes to show ya...

No matter where you live, there are responsibilities and practical issues you have to deal with. Being on vacation somewhere is not the same as living full time somewhere, though I guess it is possible in some cases and with enough money.

Dave- you seem to have it figured out perfectly. There really is no Utopia. There are trade offs to everything we do. Sometimes paradise  is in our own backyard, but we are all too busy working to notice. Because we work so long and hard, we need to get away and Kauai, Utah, Vermont- these are all our escape-to's.

I always remember when we came back from Arizona once I was sitting on the plane next to a woman from Detroit of all places. She had been visiting her friend in Scottsdale. She absolutely loved Arizona- her happy place she said. I asked her if she would consider moving there and she said definitely NOT! I was surprised and asked her why. She said because if she lived there it would not longer be special and she wanted to keep it that way.

That says it all.


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## WinniWoman (Jul 15, 2018)

slip said:


> I am seriously considering retiring to Hawaii. I have been saying for years now that the plan is to retire there but if we can’t make that work we will snowbird there.
> 
> I have been finding the same thing Dave was finding while researching Kauai. I still have about seven years to work but I’m not against moving and working there.
> 
> ...




Think long and hard, We are like you- we vacation and then we stay home on weekends (we are still working unfortunately). We are pretty much homebodies.

We live in a rural area and I have always lived in small towns/hamlets. (Hubby is originally from Brooklyn/Manhatten, but we married young). We love the peace and quiet as a relief from our hectic, drudgery filled work week. But it also can be very isolating. I feel it now more and more. Thank goodness for the social connections the internet gives us- FB, TUG, Instagram, etc. And for doing some practical stuff like emailing, and banking and on-line shopping.

Anyway though, as you get older it is not good to be so far away from everything- medical facilities, some stores, town halls and government buildings, volunteer organizations, religious organizations if you are so inclined, family. friends, etc. Even if you are introverts, like us, and don't want to be involved in a lot of things, it is good to have some people around.


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## DaveNV (Jul 15, 2018)

slip said:


> I am seriously considering retiring to Hawaii. I have been saying for years now that the plan is to retire there but if we can’t make that work we will snowbird there.
> 
> I have been finding the same thing Dave was finding while researching Kauai. I still have about seven years to work but I’m not against moving and working there.
> 
> ...




Wow!  That's awesome to hear. I wouldn't have considered Molokai as an option.  But as you say, you've only moved three times in your life, and each time was to a small town.  I've moved so many times, I never pack my suitcase too deeply into the back of the closet.  (Thirteen schools in five states in twelve years, then a twenty year career in the Navy.  I've moved seven times just since I retired from the Navy in 1993, although I've been in my current home fifteen years - a record for me.)

I really hope you can make this work for you both.  Don't forget to factor in things like medical care.  What will you do if one of you gets sick, or needs ongoing medical care?  That was important for me on Kauai, as Wilcox is a good medical center, but as a military retiree, I might need closer access to a military hospital facility.  As Gilda Radnor used to say, "It's always something." 

Dave


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## bluehende (Jul 15, 2018)

DaveNW said:


> Wow!  That's awesome to hear. I wouldn't have considered Molokai as an option.  But as you say, you've only moved three times in your life, and each time was to a small town.  I've moved so many times, I never pack my suitcase too deeply into the back of the closet.  (Thirteen schools in five states in twelve years, then a twenty year career in the Navy.  I've moved seven times just since I retired from the Navy in 1993, although I've been in my current home fifteen years - a record for me.)
> 
> I really hope you can make this work for you both.  Don't forget to factor in things like medical care.  What will you do if one of you gets sick, or needs ongoing medical care?  That was important for me on Kauai, as Wilcox is a good medical center, but as a military retiree, I might need closer access to a military hospital facility.  As Gilda Radnor used to say, "It's always something."
> 
> Dave



Man am I a homebody.  I have had 2 addresses in 62 yrs.  Childhood home til college and my current house since then.  My current house is about 3 miles from my childhood house.


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## DaveNV (Jul 15, 2018)

bluehende said:


> Man am I a homebody.  I have had 2 addresses in 62 yrs.  Childhood home til college and my current house since then.  My current house is about 3 miles from my childhood house.



My spouse is that way - lived in one house growing up, went to the same schools all the way through.  I can't imagine how that must have been.  My Dad was military, and my Mom had very itchy feet.  We moved a LOT.  I was in three different schools in three different towns within the first two months of the sixth grade.  The running joke at our house was if the new phone book came out, and our name and address were right, it was time to start packing - we knew we'd be moving soon. 

Dave


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## slip (Jul 15, 2018)

mpumilia said:


> Think long and hard, We are like you- we vacation and then we stay home on weekends (we are still working unfortunately). We are pretty much homebodies.
> 
> We live in a rural area and I have always lived in small towns/hamlets. (Hubby is originally from Brooklyn/Manhatten, but we married young). We love the peace and quiet as a relief from our hectic, drudgery filled work week. But it also can be very isolating. I feel it now more and more. Thank goodness for the social connections the internet gives us- FB, TUG, Instagram, etc. And for doing some practical stuff like emailing, and banking and on-line shopping.
> 
> Anyway though, as you get older it is not good to be so far away from everything- medical facilities, some stores, town halls and government buildings, volunteer organizations, religious organizations if you are so inclined, family. friends, etc. Even if you are introverts, like us, and don't want to be involved in a lot of things, it is good to have some people around.



That’s what we are doing, thinking long and hard. One thing we are learning is it’s hard to distinguish from actual reasons not to do something and what are just excuses. We’re not introverts but we have a small circle. We can definitely get a small circle somewhere else. Both my mother and father are gone, I have one brother who works at the same place I do and a sister that lives in our same small town. Most of the time we communicate over Facebook but it’s not often. Everyone is living their lives. My other sister lives in another state and we communicate the same way. None of that would change. 

All of the things you listed about not being far away from are there, just a different place. I can join the church and be involved with the community there. They have government offices. There is a hospital, I know they won’t be able to do everything at that hospital but i’m In the same situation here. 

One other thing we know is that if it doesn’t work out, we can move back. DW has moved a lot when she was young and she has been thinking about this move for years. We would both like to try it while we can enjoy it also.

I’m not one of those people who go somewhere one time and thinks it would be great to live there. I’ve been a lot of places and the only place I have felt that way about is Hawaii and we’ve been returning every year since. 

Do we know for sure it will be great and work out, no. I don’t believe anyone really does. We’re still working on it. We’ll see what we decide. I’m sure I’ll post either way.


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## DaveNV (Jul 15, 2018)

slip said:


> I’m not one of those people who go somewhere one time and thinks it would be great to live there. I’ve been a lot of places and the only place I have felt that way about is Hawaii and we’ve been returning every year since.
> 
> Do we know for sure it will be great and work out, no. I don’t believe anyone really does. We’re still working on it. We’ll see what we decide. I’m sure I’ll post either way.




I think your attitude is awesome. Make sure the guest room is ready. I've never been to Molokai.  

Dave


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## slip (Jul 15, 2018)

DaveNW said:


> Wow!  That's awesome to hear. I wouldn't have considered Molokai as an option.  But as you say, you've only moved three times in your life, and each time was to a small town.  I've moved so many times, I never pack my suitcase too deeply into the back of the closet.  (Thirteen schools in five states in twelve years, then a twenty year career in the Navy.  I've moved seven times just since I retired from the Navy in 1993, although I've been in my current home fifteen years - a record for me.)
> 
> I really hope you can make this work for you both.  Don't forget to factor in things like medical care.  What will you do if one of you gets sick, or needs ongoing medical care?  That was important for me on Kauai, as Wilcox is a good medical center, but as a military retiree, I might need closer access to a military hospital facility.  As Gilda Radnor used to say, "It's always something."
> 
> Dave



Yeah, Moloka’i just came about while checking on all the other islands. 

The company I work for just bought out HFM. The islands largest food distributor. So that brought up a transfer option. To get to the islands sooner. I’ve been watching but no jobs i’m Interested in at the moment. 

Not many options for housing on Kauai like you said. We looked at a few leasehold properties during a few of our visits. They would work and we could afford them but the leaseholds expired when we were 85. Don’t know if that would be an issue or not. 

Right now we have a realtor on Maui for Molokai and one on Kauai. We are pre-qualified and will get pre-approved when we are ready to put in an offer. Still a lot of questions being answered but mostly on specific properties. We’ll see.


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## DaveNV (Jul 15, 2018)

slip said:


> Right now we have a realtor on Maui for Molokai and one on Kauai. We are pre-qualified and will get pre-approved when we are ready to put in an offer. Still a lot of questions being answered but mostly on specific properties. We’ll see.



I had no idea you two were so serious about it.  I'm very impressed! You'll have to keep us posted.

Dave


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## slip (Jul 15, 2018)

DaveNW said:


> I had no idea you two were so serious about it.  I'm very impressed! You'll have to keep us posted.
> 
> Dave



I really only posted because I was surprised that you had applied for a job on Kauai.

One place does have a loft for guests. I’ll keep everyone posted.


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## DaveNV (Jul 15, 2018)

slip said:


> I really only posted because I was surprised that you had applied for a job on Kauai.
> 
> One place does have a loft for guests. I’ll keep everyone posted.



I didn't talk about it because I didn't want to jinx myself.  Once I withdrew my application, it didn't seem to make any difference till this thread came along.  Small world. 

Dave


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## CalGalTraveler (Jul 15, 2018)

With Boomers retiring, young adults seeking affordable housing and jobs, and people seeking less crowding, the migration of Californians to other western states in the next decade will change the dynamic of culture, race, and political diversity in these states.  The cap on the SALT tax deduction will put this migration on steroids. Idaho will become move diverse politically and otherwise as people move in. Perhaps congress did not consider this when they voted for the SALT cap.  Be careful what you wish for, you may just get it.


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## bbodb1 (Jul 15, 2018)

CalGalTraveler said:


> With Boomers retiring, young adults seeking affordable housing and jobs, and people seeking less crowding, the migration of Californians to other western states in the next decade will change the dynamic of culture, race, and political diversity in these states.  The cap on the SALT tax deduction will put this migration on steroids. Idaho will become move diverse politically and otherwise as people move in. Perhaps congress did not consider this when they voted for the SALT cap.  Be careful what you wish for, you may just get it.


While I understand the point you are making here, I think Californians are in for quite an awakening when they move. 
Both personally and politically.


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## CalGalTraveler (Jul 15, 2018)

bbodb1 said:


> While I understand the point you are making here, I think Californians are in for quite an awakening when they move.
> Both personally and politically.



I have a close relative and a few nieces and nephews who were born and raised in California who have already migrated to these states. They love it there. White, not politically active, so easy to blend in, but they do vote.  The only difficulty has been adjusting to the winter weather.  Summers are drop-dead gorgeous.


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## bbodb1 (Jul 15, 2018)

CalGalTraveler said:


> I have a son and a few nieces and nephews who were born and raised in California who have already migrated to these states. They love it there. White, not politically active, so easy to blend in, but they do vote.


Watch what happens over time now that they are away from California.  Nature and outdoors can have a profound effect on an individual.  Moving away from the masses and toward the solitary can shift a POV significantly.  BTW, I should ask CalGal - are these relatives of your primarily northern or southern Californians?


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## VacationForever (Jul 15, 2018)

bbodb1 said:


> While I understand the point you are making here, I think Californians are in for quite an awakening when they move.
> Both personally and politically.


Why did you say that?  We moved out of California 2 years ago and cannot be happier.  Much lower crime rate and we feel that it is much safer.  People are also nicer. Taxes only plays a small part in our decision to move.


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## bbodb1 (Jul 15, 2018)

Let me also pause here to say there are many places I'd love to visit in California but none of them are in the big cities.  
Well, except Miramar (even despite the fact this is no longer home to Top Gun......).


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## CalGalTraveler (Jul 15, 2018)

Northern California. Despite the reputation, California is not all masses. Three of them lived in remote parts of Northern California (think Humbolt County Redwoods and Sierra Foothills) so solitary is not an issue and nature is in their blood. A few of them live in suburbs of cities e.g. Boise, Spokane, Boulder. Not much different than suburbs and towns in N. California, except less expensive.


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## bbodb1 (Jul 15, 2018)

VacationForever said:


> Why did you say that.  We moved out of California 2 years ago and cannot be happier.  Much lower crime rate and we feel that it is much safer.  People are also nicer. Taxes only plays a small part in our decision to move.


That was the direction I was headed here....leaving the over crowded urban areas in California for the far less crowded areas in the West can produce a change of spirit and appreciation for a way of life many may not have thought possible or appreciated.  It's another way of saying you have to experience it to understand it.....

I'll take an existence in Idaho, Colorado, Utah or Wyoming.... over many urban areas in California.


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## DaveNV (Jul 15, 2018)

bbodb1 said:


> That was the direction I was headed here....leaving the over crowded urban areas in California for the far less crowded areas in the West can produce a change of spirit and appreciation for a way of life many may not have thought possible or appreciated.  It's another way of saying you have to experience it to understand it.....
> 
> I'll take an existence in Idaho, Colorado, Utah or Wyoming.... over many urban areas in California.



I don't think you can generalize to that degree.  People who live in big cities often want to get out.  And some, like my younger brother, who grew up in rural northwestern Washington, couldn't wait to move to a big city in southern California, to be able to experience all those things you think nobody likes.  He's still there, after more than 30 years.  

People are people, and everyone is an individual.  I hope wherever people choose to live, they have the option to make that happen. Whatever change comes afterwards will be what it is, based not only on that individual, but also after interacting with everyone else in that new area.

Dave


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## bbodb1 (Jul 15, 2018)

CalGalTraveler said:


> Northern California. You seem to have the assumption that California is all masses. Three of them lived in remote parts of Northern California (think Humbolt County and Sierra Foothils) so solitary is not an issue and nature is in their blood. A few of them live in suburbs of cities e.g. Boise, Spokane, Boulder. Not much different than suburbs and towns in N. California.



Most definitely not.  I have been to San Francisco, Los Angeles and San Diego.  But also drove from San Francisco to Reno and enjoyed some time at Truckee.
Yosemite is on my bucket list as is Lassen.
Please don't misunderstand - there are many natural wonders and attractions in California I'd like to see.

[Poitical comment deleted]

Well, I'll leave that alone.

I'd like to travel the small towns of northern California and visit the many parks and forests there.
My point is there is something ln living closer to nature that tends to bring a [different] perspective. [edited]


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## DaveNV (Jul 15, 2018)

bbodb1 said:


> My point is there is something ln living closer to nature that tends to bring a perspective apart from the usual (urban) politics.



But not everyone shares that viewpoint.  I know people who are SO urban, they think "roughing it" is staying in a hotel room without air conditioning. LOL!

Dave


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## bbodb1 (Jul 15, 2018)

Let me try it this way and use the old adage - you can take the boy out of the country, but you can't take the country out of the boy. 
_And yes, that applies to girls too!
_
I'd be curious if we revisit this is a few years to see if CalGirl notes any changes in her relatives.


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## bbodb1 (Jul 15, 2018)

DaveNW said:


> But not everyone shares that viewpoint.  I know people who are SO urban, they think "roughing it" is staying in a hotel room without air conditioning. LOL!
> 
> Dave


True enough, but I don't think they would be the most likely candidates to be moving to the less populated areas in the western frontier areas.


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## VacationForever (Jul 15, 2018)

bbodb1 said:


> That was the direction I was headed here....leaving the over crowded urban areas in California for the far less crowded areas in the West can produce a change of spirit and appreciation for a way of life many may not have thought possible or appreciated.  It's another way of saying you have to experience it to understand it.....
> 
> I'll take an existence in Idaho, Colorado, Utah or Wyoming.... over many urban areas in California.


DUH!  Got it now.


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## CalGalTraveler (Jul 15, 2018)

[ CalGalTraveler - it is a violation of TUG rules to edit or remove a moderator's edit from your post - please do not remove.]

[Deleted: Political posts are not permitted on TUG.]


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## DeniseM (Jul 15, 2018)

Folks - if this thread continues to go down the political road, it will be closed.


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