# Neighbors child died from H1N1 complications today



## tlwmkw (Oct 10, 2009)

Just heard our neighbors 9 year old died today from complications related to H1N1.  Went into hospital on Wednesday due to dehydration and by Thursday pm was on full life support.  Died today.  What a terrible thing!  I thought all the fuss about this was hysteria from the media but now I know it's not.  Please get the vaccine if you get the chance and be very careful washing hands and using Purelle.  If you do get infected then stay home and don't expose others!

I am especially upset because I have heard of many kids being sent to school when they clearly have the infection- I guess their parents don't want to have to take a few days off work to take care of them.  One child in the neighborhood (who attends the same school as the one who died) was playing at a football game coughing and clearly with a fever.  Please don't do this and expose others to this!

tlwmkw


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## pjrose (Oct 10, 2009)

OMG, the poor family.  How very very sad.  We know a family in which each person got it - first the kids picked it up at summer camp   and then the parents got it.  Fortunately it only lasted a few days for each person.  

We will certainly get the vaccine if we can, given limited supplies, and take your other advice as well.


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## Rose Pink (Oct 10, 2009)

I cannot imagine the pain of losing a child and hope I never have to go through that.  I hope people will stay home and keep their children home, too, but I know for many people it is a matter of finances in this tough economy when people feel lucky just to have a job--any job.  They need their jobs and if the employer isn't understanding or if there are no sick day benefits, the parents may feel they have no choice.  Others simply do not recognize the symptoms until everyone has already been exposed.

Eat nourishing foods, wash your hands well, don't touch your face.  I try to do those things.  I also am not around children very much any more.


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## vacationhopeful (Oct 10, 2009)

So sorry for the loss of a child in this fashion.  My nephew at 12 crashed from the seasonal flu and was on a ventilator for 5 days just 21 months ago.  He was very lucky. This H1N1 flu is hitting kids exceptional hard.

I have become outspoken on dealing with sales staff and other service workers who are visible sick and at work spreading "illness".  I have literally walk away from my almost purchases when encountering a sick cashier, to find a manager and express my disapproval. Then I leave and shop elsewhere. Schools, businesses and social functions should have guidelines and make no exceptions.  And sick kids should NOT be left home alone at any age.

IMO,


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## laurac260 (Oct 10, 2009)

tlwmkw said:


> Just heard our neighbors 9 year old died today from complications related to H1N1.  Went into hospital on Wednesday due to dehydration and by Thursday pm was on full life support.  Died today.  What a terrible thing!  I thought all the fuss about this was hysteria from the media but now I know it's not.  Please get the vaccine if you get the chance and be very careful washing hands and using Purelle.  If you do get infected then stay home and don't expose others!
> 
> I am especially upset because I have heard of many kids being sent to school when they clearly have the infection- I guess their parents don't want to have to take a few days off work to take care of them.  One child in the neighborhood (who attends the same school as the one who died) was playing at a football game coughing and clearly with a fever.  Please don't do this and expose others to this!
> 
> tlwmkw



That is terrible. How sad.  Did the child have underlying medical conditions as well?  Just wondering.  I have a 9 yr old who has allergy induced asthma.  I am personally against the flu shot, I do not get them as a rule (got one many years ago and got very sick).  Anyway, this year we all got the regular flu shot.  The reason being is that our pediatrician explained that 1 in 3 people inthe hospital witn H1N1 are asthmatics.  We will get the H1N1 shot when it comes available in our area (though we may have a better chance of getting H1N1 than the shot at this point).   I have been hearing on the news that the regular flu shot is showing signs of being able to ward off the H1N1 as well.  That is good atleast.  I did get the flu shot this year, and had the symptoms they described, feverish, chills, sore scratchy throat.  I wondered if once again I was going to get sick, but it passed in a couple days.  

The pediatrician mentioned that with this flu, it is the young that are more succeptible.  

My heart goes out to the child's family.  I don't know how I could go on if that happened to us.


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## pgnewarkboy (Oct 10, 2009)

laurac260 said:


> I have been hearing on the news that the regular flu shot is showing signs of being able to ward off the H1N1 as well.   .



I don't know where you heard this but I am sure it was not from the CDC.  I have read nothing from the CDC that says the regular flu vaccine has the ability to ward off the disease.

Every flu vaccine every year is custom made.  It must be custom made to work.  The current h1n1 is brand new to humans and you must have the specific tailor made vaccine to be protected.

The "news" is full of mistakes, misinformation, and purposeful lies.  I am glad to hear you will get the h1n1 injection when it is available.  My heart goes out to the family that lost their 9 year old child to this illness and everyone else who suffers a loss from this new and unpredictable virus.


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## tlwmkw (Oct 11, 2009)

Someone asked if this child had any underlying health issues.  I don't think he did.  He may have had some respiratory issues (asthma perhaps) but not anything that you would regard as unusual- he was on sports teams and acted like any other kid- he certainly didn't have any major health issues that I know of.  He was always out playing with his two younger brothers and their dog.  A very cute, normal kid.  It's a very sad situation- I just can't imagine it.  Puts everything into perspective.

If someone has the flu then they should take time off and if needed get a note from their doctor saying that they needed the time off.  I don't think any doctor would deny this and if a boss gives anyone grief for taking time off to recover then they need a good talking to and a dose of reality.  Nothing is more important than your health.  This situation really shows how important it is to follow the advice about staying home and using good precautions to avoid exposure.


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## Keitht (Oct 11, 2009)

The death of any child is tragic, but it is important not to let hysteria take over.  The number of deaths from Swine Flu is currently very low, and the number of deaths in which the victim didn't have some form of underlying medical problem (some unknown prior to the event) is even lower.

There are reports of some severe reactions to the available anti-virals so it's not an easy decision to make.


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## vacationhopeful (Oct 11, 2009)

I can only speak of my personal experience. 

My nephew did not have any underlying health issues.  He went to school and came home at the end of the day feeling bad.  He was running a fever and was put to bed. He drank fluids.  At noon the next day, he was really achey and his fever was higher.  My sister was in route to the doctor's office when he started having breathing problems.  She stopped immediately at a fire station and using their onsite ambulance, he was transported to a local emergency room (after paramedics met the ambulance after it left the fire station).  He was on oxygen from the fire station on.

He was seen immediately at the hospital by a doctor who tried to treat the chest/lung congestion.  He breathing STOPPED with 10 minutes after arriving at hospital. The doctor got a tube down his throat and shipped him, my sister, the 2 paramedics & fireman driver back into the original ambulance for the 16 mile run to a pedicatic intensive care center. Lights and sirenings with drivers NOT moving out of the way!

At the University of Maryland center in Baltimore, he had immediate attention.  The onsite emergency physician KNEW him very well as his son was in the cub scout pack my nephew helped out with.  The doctor immediately was stunned.  It was like this was his kid.  

After 5 full days on the ventilator at a major pediatic teaching center, the staff knew they had to get him off the ventilator (become dependant on the vent, damage to lungs, etc).  They did but kept him for several more days in the intensive care unit.  The doctor (and his relief) both knew this child, another of his aunts was a local RN who spent many hours at the hospital, both his parents spent almost every moment with him (one was always there, every minute).  I immediately drove the 140 miles and took over the other 2 kids and the house (one who also came down with the flu while I was there).

My 12 yo nephew and my sister LUCKED OUT every step of the way.  One different decision, if the ambulance had left the 1st hospital, if the fire station was not there, it the paramedics had not been picked up (necessary to have transported him to the second hospital).  

When I saw him 36 hours after he was off the ventilator, I was shocked.  Shallow panting at a very rapid pace.  Constant fast panting.  Everyone kept saying how much better he looked!  How much better?  I think I was white as a ghost - much better? I was glad I didn't see him earlier. He was still on oxygen. This was 7 days in the hospital; it was not important that I see him before, as I helping to keep things under control at their house. I was at the Little League game where he was playing at the MD state tourament (the MD winner played in the Williamsport finals that year). He was not overweight. He is not sickly. He had never been in an emergency room before.

BTW, the cub scout pack organized a lunch and dinner drop at the house.  Those 2 totally fixed meals per day for the family was so helpful and last til after he came home.  Someone, just showed up with food.  No asking, no phone calls, just a door bell ringing.  Even the doctor showed up with food at the house when my sister was there to shower and change clothes.

Help the family.  They must be in terrible shock. Take food over now. Send a card (and enclose a gift certificate for pizza delivery) next week. Do anything to make their day a little easier.


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## tlwmkw (Oct 11, 2009)

Keitht,

What anti-virals are you referring to?  Do you mean Tamiflu?  They aren't giving it to the kids here so I don't think that should be a problem.  The H1N1 vaccine has not been released here yet and it looks like it will be too late when it finally does arrive.  One local school has 1 in 5 children sick with the H1N1 flu (and of course the school nurse is also out with it).

The best defense is if those with sick children will keep them home until they are no longer contagious.  If you are sick you must try to stop exposing others and use precautions.  This is so important- please be careful.

tlwmkw


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## ciscogizmo1 (Oct 11, 2009)

tlwmkw said:


> Someone asked if this child had any underlying health issues.  I don't think he did.  He may have had some respiratory issues (asthma perhaps) but not anything that you would regard as unusual- he was on sports teams and acted like any other kid- he certainly didn't have any major health issues that I know of.  He was always out playing with his two younger brothers and their dog.  A very cute, normal kid.  It's a very sad situation- I just can't imagine it.  Puts everything into perspective.


I'm curious why you don't think asthma is not a underlying medical condition.  It is and it can be very serious.  Alot of people have asthma so it is not unusual but it can complicate flu symptoms.  

I'm very sorry for your neighbor's loss.


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## tlwmkw (Oct 11, 2009)

ciscogizmo1,

Actually, I don't think he even had mild asthma.  I didn't mean to say that asthma is not a serious condition but just that he didn't have anything major that was unusual (like cancer or a heart defect or an immune disorder or anything like that)- mild asthma is so common that I suppose I think of it as almost being a normal thing- though as you say it can be quite serious.  Regardless, I do want people to be careful during this outbreak of the H1N1.

tlwmkw


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## AKE (Oct 11, 2009)

The death of a child (or adult or senior) is always tragic when it is due to a seemingly random illness but at the same time we need to put the H1N1 flu into perspective.  There have been many flus over the years BUT it is in this high tech age that we only now become globally aware of the scope and cosequences of such illnesses and this, at times. leads to panic.  By comparison, how many children (or adults) die in traffic accidents versus the flu? This has to be put into perspective before mass panic sets in.


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## Mel (Oct 11, 2009)

While a significant number of people have dies from this virus, everything I have read still indicates that the majority of severe cases involve patients with underlying conditions, and "mild asthma" would be such a condition.

Don't rely on your observations of the child to determine if he had asthma, as even moderately severe cases can be kept under control.  And in mild cases, depending o the trigger, a child might go years without an attack, and then have a severe attack - the asthma appears to be mild, but it isn't really.

My own DD would probably fit in that category.  Her triggers are stress and viral infections.  She was hospitalized as a toddler when each molar erupted (the respitory therapist asked if it was another tooth the final visit).  She has experienced considerable stress since then, but not enough to trigger another attack.  She had 2 or 3 attacks more than 5 years ago due to severe colds and congestion.  But if you ask anyone around her, they would not know she has asthma.  She was in fact exposed to H1N1 at a summer program, and did not get sick. 

I think the best precaution is to be aware of your surroundings.  If someone appears sick, avoid them, but understand that by the time they are showing symptoms, they have probably already infected many people (some of whom will be carriers, and won't show symptoms).

Also, don't get overconfident about the Purell - it's an antibacterial, and won't do anything to the virus.  While it will probably reduce other illnesses, and perhaps reduce the number of people with compromised immune systems.  But it also could lead to a false sense of security.


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## pjrose (Oct 11, 2009)

Mel said:


> . . . Also, don't get overconfident about the Purell - it's an antibacterial, and won't do anything to the virus.  While it will probably reduce other illnesses, and perhaps reduce the number of people with compromised immune systems.  But it also could lead to a false sense of security.



Not sure of Purell's specific composition, and perhaps if it only says "antibacterial" that's not enough, but the CDC says "Alcohol-based hand cleaners are also effective."  flu.gov


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## chriskre (Oct 12, 2009)

I work at a major county hospital and have worked in the piggy flu unit most of the last year and so far no flu.  (believe it or not we do have a pig flu unit).  

My secret?  
Well I believe that my megdoses of Vitamin C and antioxidants are keeping my immune system vigilant.  I was starting to feel ill the other day and attacked it with my supplement arsenal and in 4 days what was trying to catch me ran packing.   I am taking Vitamin C 3 times a day in my 12 and a half hour shift.  

Most of our staff members have been sick.  So far not me.  Now I share my cocktails with other staff members and they willingly down their vitamin C.  

My hospital is offering flu shots but not piggy flu shots.  So far I've passed on the offer.  Keeping my fingers crossed as I too am asthmatic.


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## JulieAB (Oct 12, 2009)

We do not vaccinate because of neurobiological disorders in our family.  As a result, we take other precautions to limit our risk.

We take a liquid echinacea/goldenseal combo and astragalus - 1 week on, 1 week off.  Daily we have 1000 mg of vitamin c, a good multi-vitamin, 5000 iu vitamin d3, a teaspoon of cod liver oil, a 30 bil broad spectrum probiotic, and a balanced diet with organic fresh fruits/veggies, low sugar and few processed foods.

We are also attentive to good hygiene like washing our hands when we come home and before we eat, using place mats in public, wiping shopping carts, etc.  We use soap/water over the antibacterial stuff when possible.

Thankfully, we have never had the flu.  When we do occasionally get sick, it is a minor cold or sinus infection that quickly passes.    So far so good!  And hoping we can avoid H1N1 as well!  

I appreciate everyone's advice on this thread to stay home when you're sick!  There are myths that many people believe you aren't contagious if you don't have a fever or your nose is clear.  Not true!  You are contagious up to 2 days BEFORE showing any symptoms and up to 5 days AFTER the symptoms start!  Please be kind to others at school and work!  You never know if you're working with someone who has an immune-compromised family member.  It could pose a greater risk to them if they got sick.    Plus, you'll recover faster if you're home and resting!


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## AKE (Oct 12, 2009)

Even if these types of disinfectants were effective against viruses, as soon as you touch a doorknob, a handle of a shopping cart, an elevator button, etc etc you are contaminating your hands again.   In reality, unless you are wearing gloves 24/7 which you dispose of without touching the outside of the glove itself, I cant see the effectiveness of disinfectants except for the moment between the time that you use the disinfectant and the time that you use your hand to touch something.  From my observation of people using these disinfectants, this time lapse will generally range from a few seconds to a minute or two (try it and see how fast one touches something contaminated after using a disinfectant on their hands).


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## pjrose (Oct 12, 2009)

AKE said:


> Even if these types of disinfectants were effective against viruses, *as soon as you touch a doorknob, a handle of a shopping cart, an elevator button, etc etc you are contaminating your hands again.  * In reality, unless you are wearing gloves 24/7 which you dispose of without touching the outside of the glove itself, I cant see the effectiveness of disinfectants except for the moment between the time that you use the disinfectant and the time that you use your hand to touch something.  From my observation of people using these disinfectants, this time lapse will generally range from a few seconds to a minute or two (try it and see how fast one touches something contaminated after using a disinfectant on their hands).



True, regardless of whether hands are washed with soap and water or disinfectant was applied.  This underscores the importance of not touching your nose, mouth, eyes, etc!    I do have a tiny Lysol spray in my purse, which I use on occasion for bathroom doorknobs, seats, handles, and knobs, and also keyboards, switches, etc.  I also have hand cleaner in my purse and use it frequently, many times a day, use shopping-cart wipes, AND I avoid touching mouth, nose, etc.


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## JulieAB (Oct 12, 2009)

pjrose said:


> True, regardless of whether hands are washed with soap and water or disinfectant was applied.  This underscores the importance of not touching your nose, mouth, eyes, etc!    I do have a tiny Lysol spray in my purse, which I use on occasion for bathroom doorknobs, seats, handles, and knobs, and also keyboards, switches, etc.  I also have hand cleaner in my purse and use it frequently, many times a day, use shopping-cart wipes, AND I avoid touching mouth, nose, etc.



:deadhorse:  Agreed!  This is a given.


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## post-it (Oct 12, 2009)

I'm very sad to hear about your neighbors loss.  I'll keep them in my prayers.

------------------
The last I heard it's a 9 day incubation, has anyone heard otherwise?  It's going to be hard for this not to spread unless everyone stays home if they've been exposed, which is highly unlikely.  

Have any other kids from his school or team come down with the flu?


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## tlwmkw (Oct 13, 2009)

*An update*

I was the OP and I now have more information about what happened.

The boy did have an underlying condition which was due to flu also.  He had seasonal flu 2 years ago and was very ill at that time.  They think that that damaged his heart and made him more susceptible to the H1N1.  He had been cleared by a cardiologist and the family had been told that he was OK.  The currents doctors think that the damage 2 years ago was probably worse than had been thought.  He didn't have asthma.

Anyway, wash your hands, take the vaccine (to protect yourself and others), and stay home if you are sick (again for your sake but also for those around you).

As an extra note Purell does kill some viruses- in fact it does kill flu viruses (though not cold or hepatitis viruses).  The alcohol in Purell dissolves the lipid (fatty) shell of the flu virus and destroys the virus.  The purell does not kill your skin cells- the ones on the surface are already dead- but it does dry out you skin.  Personally we do use it and also try not to touch our faces after touching possibly contaminated surfaces.

tlwmkw


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## laurac260 (Oct 13, 2009)

ciscogizmo1 said:


> I'm curious why you don't think asthma is not a underlying medical condition.  It is and it can be very serious.  Alot of people have asthma so it is not unusual but it can complicate flu symptoms.
> 
> I'm very sorry for your neighbor's loss.



Yes, asthma is an underlying medical condition, and yes, you are right, it can be very serious.  Our daughter has asthma.  It runs in my husband's family.  Hers is aggravated by allergies.  Her #1 allergen is dogs.  We had a dog once, found out she was allergic, but did not realize the severity of it (nor did I realize the severity of asthma).  She was on medication, but still ended up with the beginning stages of pneumonia.  It turns out that the dogs saliva is the biggest allergen when it comes to dogs, not the fur, or dander.  (goodbye Rosy, I hope you are happy in your new home, we still miss you).

At any rate, this is when I realized that asthma is not something to be taken lightly.  This was also around the time I learned that her maternal great grandmother died of asthma complications as a young woman.  Yes, this was back in the late 1940's, and we have come a long way in the treatment of asthma, but that does not change the fact that asthma can be serious.  I know that now.  

According to our pediatrician, 1 in 3 patients that have been hospitalized with H1N1 are asthmatics.  THAT is why we are getting the H1N1 flu shot if it ever becomes available in time in our area (not the nasal variety, which has live virus, and is not recommended for people with compromised immune systems, or underlying medical issues).  Normally, I am very anti-flu shot.  I am biting the bullet with the H1N1.


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## Patri (Oct 13, 2009)

And I don't think people should take H1N1 lightly, or minimize deaths because a person had compromised health. Nearly every family has someone with a medical condition that could raise their risk of flu complications, so everyone must be careful (as much as we can be) so as not to bring the virus into the home and infect those who have weaker systems.
It almost seems to verge on this thread of blaming the victim. The flu won't be fun for anyone, but again, no one wants to bring it home to a family member or friends or neighbors or co-workers who may not be able to fight it off.


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## vacationhopeful (Oct 14, 2009)

My flu sick nephew came down with a positive case of the flu this past Thursday night.  His mom called the doctor's office first thing Friday AM and was told to come in late afternoon; sister got that changed to 9AM.  The test for H1N1 cost $400, takes 7-10 days for the result and many insurance companies are NOT paying for it.  The newly licensed PA took the medical history (did the OMG) and the MD prescribed Tamiflu.  He had the meds by 11AM and went back to school yesterday (Tuesday).

According to some unnamed local expert doctors, Tamiflu is NOT being dispensed as freely as in past years.  It is NOT as effective as it once was. 

The youngest nephew got sick Sunday night; the doctor's office told my sister to just keep him at home, as he did not qualify for a Tamiflu script.

Thank you, OP, on the update and the underlining conditions.  My sister should know this info, as this will be something she will aggressively checkout for her son.


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## jlwquilter (Oct 14, 2009)

My 10 yr. old daughter gets the FLuMist nasal dose today - as does all the other school kids that have parental permission. DH and I went back on forth about giving our permission quite a bit before we signed the form a few weeks ago. I am now a bit on the nervous side about how she will do!

Adding to that is that she is giving a very small party tomorrow night (they have Friday off from school) for 3 girlfriends - combo Halloween, pool party, sleepover thing. All planned before the school sent home the notice yesterday about the timing of the FluMist. I HATE that the school give no notice on stuff  I do not know if the other girls are getting the mist or not. Guess I'll be making phone calls today to other parents.


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## carl2591 (Oct 15, 2009)

the vitamin C thing is good but you need at least 3,000IU or more a day min this time of year.. also Vit D at 4,000 units a day to help your system fight off virus.. several holistic doctors,, 

Dr. David William is one that has talked about Vit D in his newsletters.. adults need appx 4-5,000 IU per day and children get 1,000 IU per 25lbs of body weight.. 
Additionally, if you contract the flu, vitamin D at
higher doses can be used therapeutically at a dosage of
1,000 IU per pound of body weight per day for a week.
For example, if you weigh 170 pounds, you would take
170,000 IU of vitamin D daily for a week.

it does take a while for Vit D to build up in the body so start taking it now. 

get more info on vit d at
www.vitamindcouncil.org.

if you are looking for a good alternative type heath newsletter I highly recommend the one by Dr. David Williams.. 

check out his website at http://www.drdavidwilliams.com


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## SDKath (Oct 16, 2009)

carl2591 said:


> if you read the tread on tug lounge about the member neighbor kid age 9 that died from H1N1 (swine flu) you must read this info on Vitamin D.
> it could save your our your family members life.
> 
> http://www.vitamindcouncil.org/



Well, "could" being the operative word since absolutely no large scale studies have been done to prove that vitamins (C, D, E, etc) do anything to alleviate flu symptoms.  And the "vitamin D counsel" has a very strong financial incentive to prey on people's fears in order to sell more product, so it's not exactly an unbiased source of medical information...  That said, it's certainly harmless and easy enough to take through the winter months.

Here is a recent article on the regular flu vaccine being mildly efficacious in H1N1 illness: http://h1n1.nejm.org/?p=960.  At the least, everyone should get a regular flu shot this year!

Katherine


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## laurac260 (Oct 16, 2009)

jlwquilter said:


> My 10 yr. old daughter gets the FLuMist nasal dose today - as does all the other school kids that have parental permission. DH and I went back on forth about giving our permission quite a bit before we signed the form a few weeks ago. I am now a bit on the nervous side about how she will do!
> 
> Adding to that is that she is giving a very small party tomorrow night (they have Friday off from school) for 3 girlfriends - combo Halloween, pool party, sleepover thing. All planned before the school sent home the notice yesterday about the timing of the FluMist. I HATE that the school give no notice on stuff  I do not know if the other girls are getting the mist or not. Guess I'll be making phone calls today to other parents.



My children cannot get the nasal mist, due to asthma.  
You do realize the nasal mist is a LIVE virus??


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## SDKath (Oct 16, 2009)

It's a live ATTENUATED virus, which means it's been altered in it's function (IE you don't get H1N1 from it) but your body can still make the antibodies to it since its structure is similar to the original virus.   

Kath


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## laurac260 (Oct 16, 2009)

SDKath said:


> It's a live ATTENUATED virus, which means it's been altered in it's function (IE you don't get H1N1 from it) but your body can still make the antibodies to it since its structure is similar to the original virus.
> 
> Kath



So, if you don't get H1N1 from then why does every medical professional say not to get the flumist if you have a compromised immune system, or underlying medical conditions?  It is my understanding that you CAN still get 
H1N1 from the flumist.


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## SDKath (Oct 16, 2009)

MedImmune sponsored a safety and efficacy trial of the nasal spray live- attenuated, cold adapted (see below) influenza vaccine compared with inactivated vaccine on infants and young children 6 to 59 months of age [4]. . The study was conducted at 249 sites in 16 countries; US (49 percent of subjects), 12 countries in Europe and Middle East (45 percent), and 3 countries in Asia (6 percent). 

A total of 7852 children completed the study. The results showed that there were 54.7 percent fewer cases of culture-confirmed influenza in the group that received live attenuated vaccine than in the group that received inactivated vaccine (153 cases, 3.9 percent vs 338 cases, 8.6 percent). For all culture-confirmed symptomatic influenza (both vaccine and non-vaccine strains), the overall attack rates were 5 percent in the group that received live attenuated vaccine and 10.0 percent in the group that received inactivated vaccine, indicating that neither vaccine was particularly good at preventing illness from non-vaccine strains. These results broadly confirm those of a comprehensive review carried out in 2006-2008, which could not provide safety analysis [5]. 

It is important to note that the MedImmune study explicitly excluded children with a history of hypersensitivity to any component of the live attenuated vaccine or the inactivated vaccine, known immunosuppressive condition , medically diagnosed or treated wheezing within 42 days before enrolment, a history of severe asthma , body temperature higher than 37.8 C within 3 days before enrolment and the use of aspirin or salicylate-containing products within 30 days before enrolment. The conditions italicized are precisely those considered especially at risk from swine flu and identified as ‘priority groups' for receiving the vaccine by the UK government, which intends to vaccinate the entire UK population starting in October [6], and there is already evidence that the inactivated flu vaccine tripled the risk of severe events in children with asthma [7]. These findings are confirmed in the Medimmune study, which exposes the highly inadequate safety considerations in the UK government's mass vaccination programme. 

The results showed that among previously unvaccinated children, wheezing within 42 days after the administration of dose 1 was more common with live attenuated vaccine, primarily among children 6 to 11 months of age, which had 12 more episodes of severe wheezing (3.8 percent, compared with 2.1 percent, p=0.076). Furthermore, rates of hospitalization for any cause during the 180 days after vaccination were significantly higher among the recipients of live attenuated vaccine who were 6 to 11 months of age (6.1 percent compared with 2.6 percent, p = 0.002). 

The authors stated [4, p. 694]:“Until additional data are available, the observations related to medically significant wheezing and rates of hospitalization will restrict the use of live attenuated vaccine in children younger than 1 year and in children 12 to 47 months of age who have a history of asthma or wheezing.” 

With that proviso, perhaps, they concluded that an “evaluation of the risks and benefits indicates that live attenuated vaccine should be a highly effective, safe vaccine for children 12 to 59 months of age who do not have a history of asthma or wheezing


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## Bill4728 (Oct 16, 2009)

carl2591 said:


> if you read the tread on tug lounge about the member neighbor kid age 9 that died from H1N1 (swine flu) you must read this info on Vitamin D.
> it could save your our your family members life.
> 
> http://www.vitamindcouncil.org/





SDKath said:


> Well, "could" being the operative word since absolutely no large scale studies have been done to prove that vitamins (C, D, E, etc) do anything to alleviate flu symptoms.  And the "vitamin D counsel" has a very strong financial incentive to prey on people's fears in order to sell more product, so it's not exactly an unbiased source of medical information...  That said, it's certainly harmless and easy enough to take through the winter months.
> 
> Here is a recent article on the regular flu vaccine being mildly efficacious in H1N1 illness: http://h1n1.nejm.org/?p=960.  At the least, everyone should get a regular flu shot this year!
> 
> Katherine



It will be a lot easier to get the H1N1 vaccine than the regular flu shot since they stopped making the regular shot and most providers are out of stock of the regular flu shot.

BUT right now, the best advice is for anyone under 25 to get the H1N1 shot ASAP (when available).  But for those of us over 50 (and  this goes double for those of you over 65) try and get the regular flu shot if you can find it.  I'm getting both but I work in healthcare and therefore I'm at greater risk.

As far as the Vit D info, it can't hurt, but the people of mexico get so much sun exposure that their Vit D levels should be great, yet that is were the outbreak started.


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## ricoba (Oct 16, 2009)

Bill4728 said:


> It will be a lot easier to get the H1N1 vaccine than the regular flu shot since they stopped making the regular shot and most providers are out of stock of the regular flu shot.



As far as I know there is not a shortage of the regular flu shot this year.  At least not here.  The flu clinic is open at our local Kaiser and both my wife and I got our regular flu shots this week.  I have not heard of any shortage here in Southern California.


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## Bill4728 (Oct 16, 2009)

jlwquilter said:


> My 10 yr. old daughter gets the FLuMist nasal dose today - as does all the other school kids that have parental permission. DH and I went back on forth about giving our permission quite a bit before we signed the form a few weeks ago. I am now a bit on the nervous side about how she will do!
> 
> Adding to that is that she is giving a very small party tomorrow night (they have Friday off from school) for 3 girlfriends - combo Halloween, pool party, sleepover thing. All planned before the school sent home the notice yesterday about the timing of the FluMist. I HATE that the school give no notice on stuff  I do not know if the other girls are getting the mist or not. Guess I'll be making phone calls today to other parents.



The mist is a great idea for anyone not care for or in close contact with someone with a significantly compromised immune system ( like cancer pts in the middle of treatment)


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## Bill4728 (Oct 16, 2009)

ricoba said:


> As far as I know there is not a shortage of the regular flu shot this year.  At least not here.  The flu clinic is open at our local Kaiser and both my wife and I got our regular flu shots this week.  I have not heard of any shortage here in Southern California.


Glad to hear that. 

I hope that means you got yours??


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## ricoba (Oct 16, 2009)

Bill4728 said:


> Glad to hear that.
> 
> I hope that means you got yours??



Yes, and from the looks of the line up and the amount of people, lots of people were getting their regular flu shot.

Is there a shortage there in WA?

I just read the LA Times and it speaks about a crimp in the H1N1 pipeline, but not in the regular vaccine.


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## Mel (Oct 16, 2009)

ricoba said:


> As far as I know there is not a shortage of the regular flu shot this year.  At least not here.  The flu clinic is open at our local Kaiser and both my wife and I got our regular flu shots this week.  I have not heard of any shortage here in Southern California.


There is a shortage here in Connecticut - several agencies have cancelled their clinics because they only have enough to cover their own staff and regular clients.

As for whether this thread is bordering on blaming the victims, I don't think it is.  I think it is important that people understand who is most severely impacted by H1N1, because if the is a shortage of vaccine, those people should have the first opportunity for a vaccine.

If everybody is scared their kids will die from this, yet it might increase the number getting vaccinated, but it will be done at the risk of making the vaccine unavailable to those who really need it.

Much more emphasis should be put on keeping those children who get the flu away from the general public.  As indicated an one of the earlier posts, the H1N1 test is expensive, and it takes a week to get results back.  If we really care, we should be keeping those kids out of school either until we get the results back, or until they are no longer contageous.  In either case, they should be out of school for a week!  So why the need for the test, unless you are trying to track H1N1 for a specific purpose.

The other problem is that the vaccine will not be 100% effective - so will parents who vaccinated their children assume that their child only has a cold?  Will those children then end up exposing everyone else anyway?


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## laurac260 (Oct 16, 2009)

*yes, they have stopped making the regular flu shot*

I have heard it from my pediatrician, my neighbor who is a pharmD and just finished going to a symposium where this same subject was discussed, and also from Fox News, by a doctor on Glenn Beck''s show today.  I have also had two of my neighbors tell me they could not get the flu shot for their kids this week, as there is no more here, and the regular flu shot is not being produced right now.  

So, it isn't a shortage per se, in that there isn't any now but will be in the future.  It is that they are now focusing their efforts on H1N1 vaccines.  If you can still get it in your locale, it is because they have not run out of it.  Yet.


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