# Questions about using the VIP discount 60-day window



## jebloomquist (Mar 29, 2013)

I have some questions for those of you who are VIPs and have experience getting your VIP discount using the online Wyndham system to cancel and rebook a reservation within 60 days of check-in.

1) How successful have you been using this technique?
2) What time frame within the 60-day discount window have you found to be most effective, such as 60 days out, 50 days out, etc.?
3) Are there times within the 60 days where you have lost reservations? If so, when?
4) Are there times when you just won’t chance a cancel/rebook for fear of losing a reservation?

Thank you. Jim


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## vacationhopeful (Mar 29, 2013)

jebloomquist said:


> I have some questions for those of you who are VIPs and have experience getting your VIP discount using the online Wyndham system to cancel and rebook a reservation within 60 days of check-in.
> 
> 1) How successful have you been using this technique?  50-50
> 2) What time frame within the 60-day discount window have you found to be most effective, such as 60 days out, 50 days out, etc.? ASAP - 60days out.
> ...



My answers in BLUE.


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## ronparise (Mar 29, 2013)

jebloomquist said:


> I have some questions for those of you who are VIPs and have experience getting your VIP discount using the online Wyndham system to cancel and rebook a reservation within 60 days of check-in.
> 
> 1) How successful have you been using this technique? works every time, but I havent done it much
> 2) What time frame within the 60-day discount window have you found to be most effective, such as 60 days out, 50 days out, etc.?  doesnt seem to make a difference
> ...



my answers in red

I have two accounts, one silver vip and the other not vip. What Ive done recently is to cancel a  reservation in the non vip account and then make the new, discounted reservation in the vip account. having two accounts may be whats responsible for my success.


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## WeLovetoTravel (Mar 29, 2013)

It usually works, but do not do it during a holiday or an event like Mardi Gras or a race week in Daytona. I lost my 2012 Christmas reservation this year by trying it. As Ron said, don't do it without a back up plan.


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## jjmanthei05 (Mar 29, 2013)

jebloomquist said:


> I have some questions for those of you who are VIPs and have experience getting your VIP discount using the online Wyndham system to cancel and rebook a reservation within 60 days of check-in.
> 
> 1) How successful have you been using this technique? About 98% of the time
> 2) What time frame within the 60-day discount window have you found to be most effective, such as 60 days out, 50 days out, etc.?Anywhere between 60 and 15 days
> ...



Mine are in Orange.

Jason


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## jjmanthei05 (Mar 29, 2013)

If I do it for a personal reservation, I always have 2 of the room category we want to stay in and then 1 of whatever the smallest category is for the upgrade. If I lose one, I still have a full price room to stay in as a backup. 

Jason


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## Explorer7 (Mar 29, 2013)

Over the past couple of years I get the discount 100% of the time and upgrade close to 90% of those reservations.
I’ve never lost one but from time to time I have had to wait anywhere from 30 seconds to 15 minutes for the reservation to appear again. I don’t book anything that I am not willing to lose. If I had to travel based on school schedules or Christmas, Easter etc I probably would not take the chance without a backup. 
I do most of mine during the day avoiding times I perceive to be potentially high traffic times like first AM, lunch hour or evenings (not that it really buys me anything it’s just me guessing most people can’t sit at work checking availability during the typical work day.)


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## vacationhopeful (Mar 29, 2013)

Yes, I have lost more reservations than it appears other here on TUG have.

I have had several VCs tell me that was the first reservation that they had lost.

But I have also gotten some GREAT discount HIGH season reservations -- so I know others HAVE lost a vacation by trying to get a discount.

Easy come, easy go.


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## jebloomquist (Mar 29, 2013)

Thanks for all of your colorful answers.


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## Sandy VDH (Mar 29, 2013)

I don't try the release and re-catch at the discount window IF there are NO existing units available.  I am way to chicken to try that. 

However I very frequently book units for the first time at the 60 day mark, when I know there is good inventory.


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## NHTraveler (Mar 30, 2013)

jebloomquist said:


> 1) How successful have you been using this technique?  I have done the cancel/rebook thing about 10-12 times in the last two years and so far I've never lost a reservation...even for holiday weeks.
> 
> 2) What time frame within the 60-day discount window have you found to be most effective, such as 60 days out, 50 days out, etc.?  15-60 days...no particular number of days...I guess when I feel lucky.
> 
> ...



See above.


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## JudyS (Mar 30, 2013)

OK, now this is making me wish I were Wyndham VIP! My timeshare addiction strikes again! 

How big a discount do you get when you rebook at the 60-day window?


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## jebloomquist (Mar 30, 2013)

JudyS said:


> OK, now this is making me wish I were Wyndham VIP! My timeshare addiction strikes again!
> 
> How big a discount do you get when you rebook at the 60-day window?


I don't smoke, do drugs, or gamble, but I do have the Wyndham addiction. And there is some sort of a high when I am able to get a reservation at 50% and then upgrade to a larger unit.

On page 288 in the 2011-2012 Club Wyndham directory shows VIP benefits. However, the headings showing the points required are now outdated.

I would paste it in this reply, but I can't figure out how to do that. How do we paste images into a message?

Basicaslly VIP - 25%, VIP Gold - 35%, and VIP Platinum - 50%, within 60 days of the check-in date.

The upgrade windows are VIP - 30 days, VIP Gold - 45 days, and VIP Platinum - 60 days, within the check-in date.


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## NHTraveler (Mar 30, 2013)

jebloomquist said:


> I don't smoke, do drugs, or gamble, but I do have the Wyndham addiction. And they is some sort of a high when I am able to get a reservation at 50% and then upgrade to a larger unit.



I also don't smoke or do drugs.  As for gambling, I'm not much of one.  I'm the kind of person who can go to a casino with friends and lose $20 over a 2 hour period.  I only play penny slots.  I'm not there to lose a paycheck, just to use up time while my friends do their thing.

I get a thrill (or a high) when cancelling and rebooking.  It is more exciting than a casino...lol.


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## ronparise (Mar 30, 2013)

JudyS said:


> OK, now this is making me wish I were Wyndham VIP! My timeshare addiction strikes again!
> 
> How big a discount do you get when you rebook at the 60-day window?



Be careful what you wish for..you might get the same addiction that Jim and I have

Jim posted the chart with the benefits and the old points requirements. The new numbers are Silver 400,000;  Gold 700,000 and Platinum stayed the same at 1,000,000

That 50% platinum discount sounds nice until you realize that the million points you own must have been purchased from Wyndham and would cost you roughly $150000 . (mf will be about $5500 a year)

So if you were to manage your account so that all your reservations get the 50% discount you will get 2 million points worth of reservations

However there is another way

why not buy  2 million points on the resale market at lets say $10,000. Your mf will be twice as much at about $11000, but you still have 140,000 in the bank. Put that into a nice tax free muni bond fund at 4% and you will have enough income each year to pay half your mf...Now, just like the guy that bought his points from Wyndham you have the use of 2 million points and you have your money in your account rather than Wyndhams.

FYI there are other cheaper ways to get to VIP (like like the PIC program, but thats a lesson for another day....or you could marry Jim, or get him to name you in his will).....but whatever it costs you will almost always be better off (unless you married Jim) by just buying the points you need on the secondary market and not from Wyndham


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## pacodemountainside (Mar 30, 2013)

ronparise said:


> Be careful what you wish for..you might get the same addiction that Jim and I have
> 
> Jim posted the chart with the benefits and the old points requirements. The new numbers are Silver 400,000;  Gold 700,000 and Platinum stayed the same at 1,000,000
> 
> ...





Elaborating on Ron's comments which IMO  are conservative.

Rack rate for Platinum VIP is around $220K, but everyone gets a 10%+  first day discount  as you are sales person new BFF, so say $190K.

The last deal I was offered was 300K points for $49K but that was after   2 salespeople and sales manager so  make $160K.

Likewise very conservative investment, I would go with  `100+ year stock market average of 9-10%  but would be reduced by around 15% taxes.

No matter what assumptions one used they are going to end up much wealthier buying resale. PICing will  definitely reduce cost, but  still need to do the math.

Let's  take an example. One has  a million  Developer  points at BC and around November 20 2013 books hot  2014 Christmas  units, 3-4 BRs.  Around October 21 2014 cancels and rebooks successfully, so now has 500K points. What can they reasonable do with them? Wild assumption  does  another  book somewhere  cancel and rebook so still has 250K points to put to RCI with no bonus and its fees!

Better situation has  a  million points  at LBM.  Booked   Mardi  Gras  2014  around February 1 , 2013   Cancels  and rebooks successfully  around January 2, 2014. Now  has  lots of time to find another hot booking but still hard put to  gross  two million points.

Assuming doing rentals.

Now   Swifter who has done home work  and reads TUG  buys   say    four 500K contracts at say BC, LBM, Daytona and  where MF are really cheap as he will use   plus left  overs from preceding.

He locks reservations and rental contracts  at 13 months , no worry about EH stealing.

Of course,  there is always that Wyndham Demon looking to  increase profits by  reducing VIP benefits.

Ron:  Are you adding marriage brokering to your many faceted  talents?  Shoot, why  not add singles connections, travel companions wanted  sub forum???


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## cassvilleokie (Mar 30, 2013)

Travel companion wanted ????  where is that forum


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## dbs1228 (Mar 30, 2013)

I have a quick question - not familiar with the VIP program but that is what my parents own and currently i have a reservation for May 21 - 5 nights in San Antonio.  I keep seeing VIP upgrade status and it says not in upgrade window.  I understand they are gold members so from what I read it is 45 days prior can I get an upgrade and how?  Do I stand a chance of losing the reservation - if so not good?  We booked a 1 bedroom unit what kind of upgrade could we get?  Thank you in advance!


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## vacationhopeful (Mar 30, 2013)

VIP upgrade is NOT the Cancel and Rebook route to save points within 60 days of checkin.

VIP Gold upgrade is at the 45 day in from checkin where if a BIGGER unit is available, you can just UPGRADE the reservation.

You won't lose the reservation.


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## Ron2 (Mar 30, 2013)

dbs1228 said:


> I have a quick question - not familiar with the VIP program but that is what my parents own and currently i have a reservation for May 21 - 5 nights in San Antonio.  I keep seeing VIP upgrade status and it says not in upgrade window.  I understand they are gold members so from what I read it is 45 days prior can I get an upgrade and how?  Do I stand a chance of losing the reservation - if so not good?  We booked a 1 bedroom unit what kind of upgrade could we get?  Thank you in advance!



You don't lose your reservation when you upgrade. You have a choice of accepting any available upgrade or keep the one you have. Often when you check for an upgrade there are none available, so you keep checking and eventually you may catch one of those reservations when someone cancels. I recently upgraded from a 2-BR Deluxe to a 2-BR Presidential Reserve. Possibly someone was playing the cancel/rebook game and I just got lucky.


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## pacodemountainside (Mar 30, 2013)

At 45 day mark just have parents(owners)  go on line or call reservations.

Does not hurt to verify exact date in advance.

Unlike cancel and rebook no risk of losing.

You get NEXT biggest unit available which would  be  2BR Deluxe at La  Cascade or  1 BR Plus at Riverside.

Don't think parents(owners) get hit with  another   RT and GC fee!

If lots of availability go for cancel and rebook!


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## Explorer7 (Mar 30, 2013)

At the 45 day mark you actually qualify for the next largest available unit which means that if you already have a 1 bedroom and the only larger room is a 4 bedroom presidential suite you can upgrade the 1br to the 4br. Keep checking regularly especially in the 15 to 20 day range of your check in date where renters often cancel the reservations they were not able to rent out or others who just can’t find a way to take their vacations cancel their trips before they have to forfeit their points once inside the 15 day mark.


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## dbs1228 (Mar 30, 2013)

pacodemountainside said:


> At 45 day mark just have parents(owners)  go on line or call reservations.
> 
> Does not hurt to verify exact date in advance.
> 
> ...



Thank you everyone I will try the upgrade to see.  

What does the cancel and rebook do - is that for the discounts?  Still trying to learn so I can teach my parents how to use their time share effectively! btw I am the only who has used the website - mom calls for everything even though she is pretty good on the computer!   At least I got them to agree to contact Wyndham and put me on the deed -when it will happen is another thing:hysterical:


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## Explorer7 (Mar 30, 2013)

dbs1228 said:


> Thank you everyone I will try the upgrade to see.
> 
> What does the cancel and rebook do - is that for the discounts?  Still trying to learn so I can teach my parents how to use their time share effectively! btw I am the only who has used the website - mom calls for everything even though she is pretty good on the computer!   At least I got them to agree to contact Wyndham and put me on the deed -when it will happen is another thing:hysterical:



The cancel and rebook would be for the 35% point discout once you reach the 60 day mark. Unless there is extra inventory displaying for the dates you are traveling the cancel and rebook stands a risk of you losing the reservation to someone else.


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## dbs1228 (Mar 30, 2013)

Explorer7 said:


> The cancel and rebook would be for the 35% point discout once you reach the 60 day mark. Unless there is extra inventory displaying for the dates you are traveling the cancel and rebook stands a risk of you losing the reservation to someone else.



Thank you I did check availability and the 1st 3 nights are good the full 5 nights no good - memorial day weekend so I will not chance it!


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## lcml11 (Mar 31, 2013)

dbs1228 said:


> Thank you I did check availability and the 1st 3 nights are good the full 5 nights no good - memorial day weekend so I will not chance it!



Unless you have enough points to hold onto the 1st one and book the second one then cancel the first one, wise move.


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## JudyS (Apr 1, 2013)

Thanks for all the information!


ronparise said:


> Be careful what you wish for..you might get the same addiction that Jim and I have....
> That 50% platinum discount sounds nice until you realize that the million points you own must have been purchased from Wyndham and would cost you roughly $150000 .


There have been suggestions before for Tuggers to set up a "Timeshare Addicts Anonymous" group, but we'd  probably just talk about the great deals we've gotten, and wind up even more addicted!

For the moment, I'm safe from developing a Wyndham VIP addiction, as I  have nowhere near $150,000 lying around! (How very "lucky" for me! ) 

I do wonder why there are silver, gold, and platinum levels of VIP. Since "VIP" means "Very Important Person," shouldn't the different status levels be called "Very Important Person," "Very Very Important Person," and "Very Very Very Important Person"? Or, perhaps they could be called "Very Important Person," "More Important Person," and "Most Important Person"?




ronparise said:


> why not buy  2 million points on the resale market at lets say $10,000. Your mf will be twice as much at about $11000, but you still have 140,000 in the bank. Put that into a nice tax free muni bond fund at 4% and you will have enough income each year to pay half your mf...Now, just like the guy that bought his points from Wyndham you have the use of 2 million points and you have your money in your account rather than Wyndhams.


Excellent analysis! But Ron, you have silver VIP benefits, right? So, why did you bother getting VIP? Did you find a cheaper way to get VIP, or did you get to VIP before discovering resale purchases, or do you feel the VIP benefits are more cost-effective because you are using them along with your (much larger?) pool of resale points?



pacodemountainside said:


> ....
> Let's  take an example. One has  a million  Developer  points at BC and around November 20 2013 books hot  2014 Christmas  units, 3-4 BRs.  Around October 21 2014 cancels and rebooks successfully, so now has 500K points. What can they reasonable do with them? Wild assumption  does  another  book somewhere  cancel and rebook so still has 250K points to put to RCI with no bonus and its fees!


 So, the idea here is that rebooking will free up some points, but the points may be close to expiring and therefore would have little value? Have I understood correctly? 




pacodemountainside said:


> Assuming doing rentals.
> 
> Now   Swifter who has done home work  and reads TUG  buys   say    four 500K contracts at say BC, LBM, Daytona and  where MF are really cheap as he will use   plus left  overs from preceding.
> 
> He locks reservations and rental contracts  at 13 months , no worry about EH stealing.


What is EH stealing?


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## pacodemountainside (Apr 1, 2013)

JudyS said:


> Thanks for all the information!
> 
> There have been suggestions before for Tuggers to set up a "Timeshare Addicts Anonymous" group, but we'd  probably just talk about the great deals we've gotten, and wind up even more addicted!
> 
> ...




Yes, it appears to me  one would have trouble  making  desired reservations last couple months of the  year.

Following is from VOI Trust which governs the operation of  the    Club Wyndham  system.  As  stated,   it can legally take 90% of available inventory at 60 day mark. It is  rumored, but   not documented  they have some kinda of priority that allows them to grab  cancels before  they can be rebooked in  very tight window of seconds.

1991 VOI Trust Agreement

11.08 Wyndham Use. In addition to the right of Wyndham, as a Member and owner of Points, to make reservations using those Points at any time, Wyndham, in its capacity as the developer of resort communities and Vacation Plans, may reserve available Accommodations up to 60 days in advance of the first day of anticipated occupancy, for its own purposes, including renting to the public, provided it pays or otherwise causes a third party to pay the occupancy related expenses of such Accommodations for each night to be used. All such occupancy related expenses shall be determined by the Trustee. As a result of Wyndham’s use there will be less space available for Member use; however, Wyndham may not reserve the last 10% of available occupancy for a type of Accommodation until 30 days prior to the first day of intended use. In addition, to the extent more Points are available in the Plan than are allocated to Members other 
than Wyndham, Wyndham may sell or lease Points on such terms as Wyndham and the Trustee deem reasonable. The purchasers or lessees of such Points shall have such Membership rights as Wyndham and the Trustee deem appropriate. 

I will leave it Ron to address your other question. I  would imagine it involved PICing   and or trade in or foreclosure  deal..


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## jebloomquist (Apr 1, 2013)

pacodemountainside said:


> 1991 VOI Trust Agreement
> 
> 11.08 Wyndham Use. In addition to the right of Wyndham, as a Member and owner of Points, to make reservations using those Points at any time, Wyndham, in its capacity as the developer of resort communities and Vacation Plans, may reserve available Accommodations up to 60 days in advance of the first day of anticipated occupancy, for its own purposes, including renting to the public, provided it pays or otherwise causes a third party to pay the occupancy related expenses of such Accommodations for each night to be used. All such occupancy related expenses shall be determined by the Trustee. As a result of Wyndham’s use there will be less space available for Member use; however, Wyndham may not reserve the last 10% of available occupancy for a type of Accommodation until 30 days prior to the first day of intended use. In addition, to the extent more Points are available in the Plan than are allocated to Members other
> than Wyndham, Wyndham may sell or lease Points on such terms as Wyndham and the Trustee deem reasonable. The purchasers or lessees of such Points shall have such Membership rights as Wyndham and the Trustee deem appropriate.



Paco, your quote from the VOI Trust Agreement may shed light on one of my original questions. If Wyndham has a trigger at 60 days to hunt down and consume, ie, reserve available accommodations, it might be wise to wait a few days within the 60 days to check-in before doing a cancel/rebook. Furthermore, it would be a good idea to make any cancel/rebook moves before the 30 day mark. I'm thinking that there might be some sweet spot 55-30 days before check-in.

I have some 500k reservations coming up this summer, and I certainly would like to get them down to 250k, but I can't afford to lose them. When I am throwing 500k here and again there, it takes a lot of points to have backups. Plus, there aren't any available backup accommodations, even if I had the points. So, it's a gamble.

Jim


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## pacodemountainside (Apr 1, 2013)

yu9ysaQUOTE=jebloomquist;1446480]Paco, your quote from the VOI Trust Agreement may shed light on one of my original questions. If Wyndham has a trigger at 60 days to hunt down and consume, ie, reserve available accommodations, it might be wise to wait a few days within the 60 days to check-in before doing a cancel/rebook. Furthermore, it would be a good idea to make any cancel/rebook moves before the 30 day mark. I'm thinking that there might be some sweet spot 55-30 days before check-in.

I have some 500k reservations coming up this summer, and I certainly would like to get them down to 250k, but I can't afford to lose them. When I am throwing 500k here and again there, it takes a lot of points to have backups. Plus, there aren't any available backup accommodations, even if I had the points. So, it's a gamble.

Jim[/QUOTE]

IMO it would definitely behoove one to do the cancel and rebook  at say  2:00PM  on  day 53 Wednesday afternoon when people are at work or in school, but no consensus. However, us retirees do tend to hang out on line!

If EH does have on going  search capability  then   one will get zapped.

Since Gold VIPs can upgrade at 45 days would definitely do  before then.

Several years  ago there was an article in  a  TS magazine that all Wyndham  employees including those  at  motels along  with military  got   inventory  really cheap  at 45 days.. Has anyone  ever heard of this?

I would not do unless lots of inventory or solid Plan B!

I would think the  sweet spot has to be the 16-20 day window.


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## bnoble (Apr 1, 2013)

> I have some 500k reservations coming up this summer, and I certainly would like to get them down to 250k, but I can't afford to lose them.


If you can't afford to lose them, and don't have a reasonable backup, I'd think twice before cancel/rebooking.  But, I'm conservative when it comes to these things.


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## JudyS (Apr 1, 2013)

pacodemountainside said:


> Yes, it appears to me  one would have trouble  making  desired reservations last couple months of the  year.
> 
> Following is from VOI Trust which governs the operation of  the    Club Wyndham  system.  As  stated,   it can legally take 90% of available inventory at 60 day mark. It is  rumored, but   not documented  they have some kinda of priority that allows them to grab  cancels before  they can be rebooked in  very tight window of seconds.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the information!

The part I've highlighted in red says Wyndham has to pay for the inventory it takes at 60 days, but it doesn't say how much Wyndham pays. Does anyone know if Wyndham pays a reasonable amount? (I feel Wyndham should pay the MFs on the full, non-discounted points cost.)


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## ronparise (Apr 2, 2013)

JudyS said:


> Thanks for all the information!
> 
> There have been suggestions before for Tuggers to set up a "Timeshare Addicts Anonymous" group, but we'd  probably just talk about the great deals we've gotten, and wind up even more addicted!
> 
> ...



I did fine a cheaper way...There are a few possibilities, A deal with an owner that wants out...or a small purchase from Wyndham with 2 pic weeks   or buy from a dying owner and inherit,    or marry a VIP owner,  are 4 possibilities that come to mind   but Im not saying what I did...  There was a day when you could bring in an unlimited number of PIC weeks with a single small developer purchase. There are Platinum owners that got there with relatively small purchases...That door is now closed...The VIP points requirements have been raised and the number of PIC weeks allowed is limited to 2

But even if you get vip cheap its almost never worth it....I justify it for myself  because I own more points than the average owner and at least for now all my points enjoy the 25% discount close to check in, and I do a lot of last minute rentals...It helps a little each month at mf paying time.

and EH is extra Holidays...Wyndhams rental arm...I just got a etter offering to rent one of my recent purchases for me at 40% commission...no thank you


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## lcml11 (Apr 2, 2013)

deleted it attributed something to me that was not mine.  See following post.


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## lcml11 (Apr 2, 2013)

Wyndham does or did do rentals through a travel agency on at least one post.  If they were doing it at one location, then I assume it would be at a number of them.  The rentals were through the Armed Service Vacation Club by Extra Vacations Rentals.

http://www.afvclub.com/military_mwr

I do not know if it is a great deal or not.  Just a quick review, it appears the pricing may be comparable with the VIP Platinum dollar per night rate.  Did not spend the time to see how many Wyndham Vacation Resort locations were involved.

My spot check, very limited, showed about $53 dollars a night for a low end price week through the Armed Force Vacation Club and about $35 dollars a night through last call for a low end price week.


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## JudyS (Apr 2, 2013)

ronparise said:


> I did fine a cheaper way...There are a few possibilities, A deal with an owner that wants out...or a small purchase from Wyndham with 2 pic weeks   or buy from a dying owner and inherit,    or marry a VIP owner,  are 4 possibilities that come to mind   but Im not saying what I did...  There was a day when you could bring in an unlimited number of PIC weeks with a single small developer purchase. There are Platinum owners that got there with relatively small purchases...That door is now closed...The VIP points requirements have been raised and the number of PIC weeks allowed is limited to 2
> 
> But even if you get vip cheap its almost never worth it....I justify it for myself  because I own more points than the average owner and at least for now all my points enjoy the 25% discount close to check in, and I do a lot of last minute rentals...It helps a little each month at mf paying time.
> 
> and EH is extra Holidays...Wyndhams rental arm...I just got a etter offering to rent one of my recent purchases for me at 40% commission...no thank you


OK, I understand now. Thanks for the explanation!


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## pacodemountainside (Apr 2, 2013)

JudyS said:


> Thanks for the information!
> 
> The part I've highlighted in red says Wyndham has to pay for the inventory it takes at 60 days, but it doesn't say how much Wyndham pays. Does anyone know if Wyndham pays a reasonable amount? (I feel Wyndham should pay the MFs on the full, non-discounted points cost.)



The VOI Trust is responsible for reservations, administration , etc. of Club Wyndham   Plus Program.  It is supposed to have 3 Wyndham  executives and 4 owners like us. However, through fancy lawyering Wyndham refuses to add  4 owners. So it is run by their Triumvirate Dictatorship   "in our best interests".

If you have a  have hour  or  so can read  actual 80K  document at:

http://forums.atozed.com/viewtopic.php?f=1608&t=10935

Indeed  Wyndham is supposed to  reimburse Trust  but  there is no documentation  they do. Certainly   actual MF or CWA rate times points would be fair!

Trust   audited financials clearly show Wyndham sales reimburses around $12  Million for VIP  benefits plus replaces points used by VIPs.

If someone is going to big meeting in May they could ask the VOI Trust Controller/Treasurer and if so how much?


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## chapjim (Apr 15, 2013)

jebloomquist said:


> I have some questions for those of you who are VIPs and have experience getting your VIP discount using the online Wyndham system to cancel and rebook a reservation within 60 days of check-in.
> 
> 1) How successful have you been using this technique?
> 2) What time frame within the 60-day discount window have you found to be most effective, such as 60 days out, 50 days out, etc.?
> ...



1) Very successful.  I've lost five reservations in two years that I cared about.  All had been rented but I do full disclosure to my renters.  I tell them what I'm doing and they bear the risk of my losing the reservation.  Their alternative is to pay full price.  No one has taken the full price option.  I have also had extraordinary success combining rebooking with upgrades.  So, for example, I have a 4BR Pres unit at Bonnet Creek that cost me 56,000 points.

2)  I used to start re-booking at 7:01 AM on day 60 but now I wait until maybe day 55, plus or minus one or two.

3) Lost one in April 2011, three late in 2012 (all for the same dates at La Belle Maison), and one this February.  I do not attribute any of those to someone beating me to the reservation after I cancelled.  It takes me 20 seconds to rebook.  Nor do I think Wyndham took them for Extra Holidays because they never showed up there.  I think in every case, I lost the reservation because the resort had taken some units out of service.

4) No.

Jim


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## BamaBlue (May 2, 2013)

I have upgraded several times but I have never tried the cancel and rebook discount. I do have two units booked that usually family goes and takes the other unit. this year, don't think they are going to make it, so I think I will try the cancel and rebook with the other unit. my question is:

how long does it usually take for the unit to show back up to be rebooked after you have cancelled it? 
do you cancel it and then rebook it right away or how long does it take to be able to see it to rebook?


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## jebloomquist (May 2, 2013)

BamaBlue said:


> I have upgraded several times but I have never tried the cancel and rebook discount. I do have two units booked that usually family goes and takes the other unit. this year, don't think they are going to make it, so I think I will try the cancel and rebook with the other unit. my question is:
> 
> how long does it usually take for the unit to show back up to be rebooked after you have cancelled it?
> do you cancel it and then rebook it right away or how long does it take to be able to see it to rebook?



My experience is that in the past, 6 months or more ago, the opportunity to rebook would reappear in 15-20 seconds after I initiated a cancel.

As of late, it seems to take longer, in the range of 20-45 seconds. On some rare occasions, a property will vanish and not reappear until 7:00 am the next morning.

As soon as it reappears, it has to be rebooked, otherwise someone else will see it, and it will be gone.

Your heart will race just a little bit each time you cancel, but usually you will be successful with the rebooking.

Good luck.

Jim


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## BamaBlue (May 2, 2013)

Thanks Jim... 
The reason I was asking is that I cancelled a weekend trip a couple of weeks ago. I had Friday and Saturday night booked in Nashville. When I cancelled it, I just watched it and tried to see how soon it would be available to rebook. I watched it for about 10 minutes or so and nothing. Then, about 20 minutes later, I checked it and just the Saturday night was available. I wasn't sure if that is the way it worked other times or if it was sooner.. Sounds like it normally is available much sooner.


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## wed100105 (May 3, 2013)

I lost a unit at Bonnet Creek for this Easter.  It was for friends and I will never play the game gain if I didn't have a second unit booked or a back up plan. I was able to find a guy in redweek and rent the unit from him (cost me an extra $100 over what I was charging my friends). Thank heavens it worked out. I stalked the website and it never came back in the system, not even as partial days. The guy I rented from and Ken Price, who does a ton of Bonnet Creek rentals, both said it had happened to them at day 59 or later. I think it has something to do with the specific resort. I had one bedrooms and three bedrooms (two of each) booked at the Wyndham Smoky mountains for summer and was able to do the cancel at 60 days and rebook for a discount and then at 45 days I didn't lose either three bedroom unit when I cancelled and upgraded. Now I only do it when I have a second unit to play around in the system. I don't think I would have tried it at the newer Smoky Mountain Resort though, unless I had the second st of reservations. I have a couple units at the Dells for summer and I am not risking it for te discount.


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## cyseitz (May 3, 2013)

If I have both the 1 bedroom and 2 bedroom both booked, I find that if I cancel the 2 bedroom and click "check for upgrade" on the reservations page the upgrade will come in a few seconds.  I just keep clicking "check for upgrade" then "close window" (however it is stated ), then go back to "check for upgrade" and repeat the steps until the upgrade shows.

I have been 100% successful using this method.  However, I am quite  new at the game


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## vacationhopeful (May 3, 2013)

cyseitz said:


> ...  However, I am quite  new at the game



When you DO eventually lose one (and you will as we ALL have lost some over the years), don't take it personal. 

It might have been one of US TUGGERS who scored a great deal. :ignore:

And the old saying is, "Live by the cancel & rebook with the discount trick; expect to lose, by the unsuccessful some of the time".


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## cyseitz (May 3, 2013)

Yeah, I would be devastated if it was a reservation for a guest! 

I hold my breath and say a prayer and my nerves are going crazy!!  But so far so good.


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## Ichiro (Feb 13, 2014)

Has anyone ever just called the vip reservation line and asked the operator to cancel and rebook?


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## ronparise (Feb 13, 2014)

Ichiro said:


> Has anyone ever just called the vip reservation line and asked the operator to cancel and rebook?



They will do it for you, but they dont give you any advantage...,they lose them too


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## Bigrob (Feb 13, 2014)

ronparise said:


> They will do it for you, but they dont give you any advantage...,they lose them too



I'm surprised that recently, two different VC's have mentioned to me to be sure to call back and cancel/rebook with them. I'm surprised they're encouraged to do that.

I do believe they can do it faster through a different screen/view than we have. But you're right that there is still a risk that they can't get it back either if there is no other availability besides the unit you're canceling.


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## lcml11 (Feb 13, 2014)

Bigrob said:


> I'm surprised that recently, two different VC's have mentioned to me to be sure to call back and cancel/rebook with them. I'm surprised they're encouraged to do that.
> 
> I do believe they can do it faster through a different screen/view than we have. But you're right that there is still a risk that they can't get it back either if there is no other availability besides the unit you're canceling.



If Wyndham is snatching up the better rental periods through Extra Holidays or wherever, then it would make since for them to do this.  They get the better units to rent at the heavily discounted rate or for the cleaning costs (I think that is what they pay for the 60 day and under units they get).

Remember, Wyndham has multiple programs to rent units through.


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## comicbookman (Feb 13, 2014)

I have had them suggest cancel/rebook on existing reservation when I have called about something else.


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## Bigrob (Feb 13, 2014)

lcml11 said:


> If Wyndham is snatching up the better rental periods through Extra Holidays or wherever, then it would make since for them to do this.  They get the better units to rent at the heavily discounted rate or for the cleaning costs (I think that is what they pay for the 60 day and under units they get).
> 
> Remember, Wyndham has multiple programs to rent units through.



I'm sorry, I don't understand what one has to do with the other, unless you think they are coaching VC's to get VIP owners to give up valuable reservations that they will snatch with EH when they try to cancel/rebook.  That would not happen too many times before you'd have a large number of disgruntled owners though, and most of the VCs I've talked to have said they wouldn't try it if there was a chance of losing the reservation. So I don't think that's their motivation.

I'm just not sure how it's in Wyndham's best interest to preserve points for VIP members by having their VC's recommend they cancel/rebook.


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## lcml11 (Feb 13, 2014)

Bigrob said:


> ... unless you think they are coaching VC's to get VIP owners to give up valuable reservations that they will snatch with EH when they try to cancel/rebook ...



Maybe figuring out how to get high value reservations through any legal means possible is why they are the among the biggest if not the biggest mega rentor/exchanger in the world.

From watching posts over time, some apparently believe that Wyndham is snatching up cancelled reservations that were formally re-booked at a discount.  

Also, it appears to me that more people are reporting more unsuccessful attempts on the book cancel re-book trick to save points.


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## Roger830 (Feb 13, 2014)

Bigrob said:


> I'm surprised that recently, two different VC's have mentioned to me to be sure to call back and cancel/rebook with them.



This doesn't surprise me from what I have learned here and staying at Wyndham resorts.

I'm sure many here have been offered lodging to stay at a resort for a sales promotion. They want new guests at the resort. What better way is there then to have someone else rent the unit. You pay the MF and find the guests, then they can sell them points.

Has anybody that rented from you bought from Wyndham?


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## Bigrob (Feb 13, 2014)

Roger830 said:


> This doesn't surprise me from what I have learned here and staying at Wyndham resorts.
> 
> I'm sure many here have been offered lodging to stay at a resort for a sales promotion. They want new guests at the resort. What better way is there then to have someone else rent the unit. You pay the MF and find the guests, then they can sell them points.
> 
> Has anybody that rented from you bought from Wyndham?



Not that I am aware of. And many people ask if they will be required to go on a timeshare tour before they book. I assure them they don't but they may have to be "firm" when they say no, depending upon the resort.


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## lcml11 (Feb 13, 2014)

Roger830 said:


> This doesn't surprise me from what I have learned here and staying at Wyndham resorts.
> 
> I'm sure many here have been offered lodging to stay at a resort for a sales promotion. They want new guests at the resort. What better way is there then to have someone else rent the unit. You pay the MF and find the guests, then they can sell them points.
> 
> Has anybody that rented from you bought from Wyndham?



For me yes.  They went to a sales presentation, then they went and bought a couple of units re-sale.

I am surprised I do not see more chatter on the board from the timeshare relief companies hinting or suggesting that if a rental customer rents from them and then makes a re-sale purchase, then closing costs could be shared, eliminated, or part of the rental go to the purchase price.  Especially if the timeshare relief company has already used this years and/or next years points.  Why should Wyndham have a exclusive on this approach?


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## am1 (Feb 13, 2014)

I do not think my guests are even asked to go on tours anymore.  I see that as a great benefit to my clients.


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## Roger830 (Feb 13, 2014)

am1 said:


> I do not think my guests are even asked to go on tours anymore.  I see that as a great benefit to my clients.



Does Wyndham ask you to call back to cancel and rebook?


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## Bigrob (Feb 17, 2014)

am1 said:


> I do not think my guests are even asked to go on tours anymore.  I see that as a great benefit to my clients.



Where are you putting your rental guests? I suspect the resort makes a difference.


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