# New Retro Deal



## ck1 (Feb 15, 2010)

I was at a presentation at the Cascades this morning at this is what is on the table.  

Buy a Lagunamar EY Platinum Plus for $32000 148,000 options with 80,000 points and a gift of 148000.  (They said it was a bank repo unit.  That is why the price is good)

They will retro both my 2bedLO at Cascades and my 2blo at SBP

They gave me the retro docs in the p/a for the SBP but for the cascades retro they signed a "Sales Exception Form" and said since I was signing p at the cascades the retro will be automatic?

Has anyone seen a sales exception form.  It is signed by the manager and says my acct at cascades will be retro'd

Any Feed Back Please

My new star option total is 548,000


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## DavidnRobin (Feb 15, 2010)

I think it was the sales exception form I was giving for my retro.  Good price? hmmmm - well it depends how important the SOs are to you.  It is a lot of SPs- especially if you put it on your SPG-AMEX,  Isn't the 5* and/or PFL SO higher?  I am ot sure, anymore - but this is only 4* - if so... why?

148.1K SOs at a Mandatory resort (like WKV) is about $18K - and even less at WKORV.  Lagunamar is Voluntary - so be prepared for the resale price to be less than $10K.
good luck

added: those SPs are worth (warning arguable...) a value of around 2.5 cents/SP (yes - you can get more value - but if you look a averages for SPG hotels from FlyerTalk - that is a good valuation point.  SPG flights are only 1.3 cents/SP)


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## DeniseM (Feb 15, 2010)

Unless you plan to spend even more money and become 5 Star Elite (649,000 StarOptions) there really is no point in spending $32,000 to become 4 Star Elite.  4 Star Elite is virtually useless and certainly not worth $32,000.  You would have to buy another week from the developer worth more than 101 SO's to reach 5 Star Elite.
*
Elite Perks Chart*

On top of that, as David said, as soon as you walk out the door, your $32K Lagunamar TS is going to be worth less than $10K, and may fall even farther, since it's a voluntary resort.

Remember that Elite Status, Star Options, and other perks are not guaranteed to last forever.  If all you end up with is ownership of the timeshares themselves, will this still seem like a good deal?

*Just checked - there is a Lagunamar 2 Bdm. on eBay for $6,495 with no bids...


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## SDKath (Feb 15, 2010)

Hmmm, 2 retros with 1 purchase.  That's nice but unheard of in quite a while!  Here is what I would do:

Go to eBay and quickly buy 2 resale units that are worth 148,100 SOs each.  THEN wait for it to get into your account with your name on it and go back to Lagunamar and tell them you want THOSE units retro'd.  They are worth way more SOs than Cascades or SBP and you might just get to 5* that way.  Add up the SOs and see if you can get to 649,000 SOs doing it this way.  You will essentially gain 148,100x3 (2 resales and 1 Lagunamar).  And you'll be 5* without having to buy ANOTHER unit from the developer.

If for some reason the sales office tells you this is a "one time only, buy today" type of deal (it's a repo, it's special, it's the last one we have....) DON'T listen.  There are tons of units available for sale and there are tons of repos and the same deal gets usually better and better rather than worse with time!

Being 4* is useless as far as benefits go.  Even the 5* benefits have totally eroded over the last 1-2 years.  Katherine


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## l2trade (Feb 15, 2010)

I've got a bit of a shocker confession for most folks who regularly read my posts:  I am actually not an SVN member!   

So, I'll readily admit I am not well versed in all the great benefits I'm missing out on for not buying direct from the developer.  That said, I just read this Elite Perks Chart.  Really, that's it?  Is this just for bragging rights?  Why would anyone do that from a cost vs. value perspective?  If I had money like that to burn, I would be staying at the Four Season, Ritz Carlton or Hyatt.  Better yet, if I were wealthy, I wouldn't bother with the hassle and restrictions of timeshares just to save a few long term bucks.

I've got the Gold Concierge service from II and almost never use it.  I can't imagine a Starwood Platinum version of that being any better.  I would prefer II trades over SVN almost any day of the week.  So, I can't picture their concierge being any better.

Last I researched it, I would not want to join SVN even if Starwood retro'd all of my ownerships for FREE.  I'm not kidding and I think I would be not be too far shy of 5* if they did.  In fact, instead, I am seriously considering dumping most of my Starwood ownerships soon to go buy elsewhere.  

What am I missing?


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## DeniseM (Feb 15, 2010)

L2trade - I think the main attraction for wanting to reach 5 Star Elite is SPG (hotel) Plat Status.  Sometimes people get very nice hotel upgrades if they have Plat Status, but it doesn't seem to be consistent.

When Starwood first introduced Elite Status, the big prize was that they guaranteed that 5 Star Elite TS owners would get automatic upgrades at SW timeshares as well, but that didn't last very long.  Apparently, SW had not really worked out the logistics of upgrading all Elites all the time, and they couldn't deliver, so they took away that perk.  I have some very awkward memories of standing in line behind Elite owners who were furious, because they were not getting upgraded to ocean front at WKORV.  People were VERY unhappy when SW took away the guaranteed upgrade - in fact that was the start of the downward slide that SW has been on ever since.

Nodge has a funny thread around here where he talks about his 5 Star Elite adventures for one year.


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## l2trade (Feb 15, 2010)

Thanks Denise!

I searched for that thread, but couldn't find it.  In the process, I skimmed a bunch of old threads.  It is amazing the change in consumer satisfaction from many of the regular posters I read and trust here.  It matches my own.  What a downward slide, eh?  

Yes, I can see how I too might once have considered SVN/Elite status a worthy goal if I could retro, especially under the earliest, most generous retro program rules.  Not long ago, I was one of Starwood's happiest customers.  I did not foresee to what degree Starwood would shatter my trust in them over the past 6 months.  I've walked the property and model unit countless times to show to others.  So many of those people bought resale because of my endless consumer enthusiasm and positive word of mouth.  

Sure, SVN would probably help resale values, but only if it were open to everyone.  I think this accounts for a large portion of the resale price gap between WKV & SDO.  So, I would welcome SVN or any other improvements that would establish a bottom on resale values and stop this downward slide.  Then, it would be much easier for me to shut up and vote with my feet.


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## saluki (Feb 15, 2010)

l2trade said:


> Thanks Denise!
> 
> I searched for that thread, but couldn't find it.



Here is Nodge's thread about his year of SPG Platinum status.


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## jerseygirl (Feb 15, 2010)

ck1 said:


> Buy a Lagunamar EY Platinum Plus for $32000 148,000 options with 80,000 points and a gift of 148000.  (They said it was a bank repo unit.  That is why the price is good)




Will be worth less than $10K the minute you walk out the door.
David's estimate of the value of the 80000 SP is pretty accurate -- 2.5 cents each or $2000.  Can be better -- I'm staying next month at the Hotel Grande Bretagne in Athens -- 4 nights (80000 points) is worth about $3500.  Still ... it's only 4 nights vs. a lifetime of obligations!  I opted for the "cash and points" option and I'm getting the same room for 8000/points per night and $150/night.  My way of point stretching!
 Even gold members get some pretty good upgrades -- I got a great one in New Orleans last week, was allowed to check out at 4PM, etc.
These days, you can pick up a 148000 trade on II with a $2 ebay trader.  Or, split you 2bedLO at Cascades via II and get a 2nd 148000 trade though II.  So I would value that extra 148100 SOs at close to $0.



ck1 said:


> .  They will retro both my 2bedLO at Cascades and my 2blo at SBP



At which time you'll be able to turn those 2-BRs into 1-BRs (or studios) via StarOpions ... or you can keep your $32000 and continue (for the time being) to turn those 2-BRs into 2-BRs for $109 (???) via II.  Yes, the day may come that we can't do that .... but, does anyone really want to continue to own a program where the benefits are consistently decreasing?

I own a combination of SVN units and non-SVN units (total SOs if all were in network is 500000+ -- as it stands it's about 1/2 and 1/2 ).  But, given a choice to bring in the non-SVN weeks even without a developer purchase, I would bring in at most one or two non-SVN weeks.  The value just isn't there for the lower SO resorts like SVR and SBP -- they're worth far more as traders.

My vote -- keep your money --- if you want a Lagunamar unit, buy the $6000 one on ebay.

We've created a mythical value of SVN here on TUG.  But, the bottom line is that the non-SVN units are getting better exchanges than the SVN units .... especially on a "dollar spent" for "dollar spent" basis.  And, it's not that difficult to obtain premium status with any hotel brand the old fashioned way -- I'm diamond with Hyatt -- becoming 5 star with Starwood would probably only result in diluting my Hyatt status.  I learned long ago -- it's better to pick a favorite program (airline, hotel) and stick with it.  Dividing your loyalty between multiple brands only serves to dilute the benefits you'll receive from both.

end of my two cents worth!


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## gmarine (Feb 15, 2010)

Save your money and stay away from anything Starwood. And keep in mind that they can devalue your points at any time.


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## vistana101 (Feb 15, 2010)

Does anyone think that being 3 star elite has any good benefits?


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## SDKath (Feb 15, 2010)

vistana101 said:


> Does anyone think that being 3 star elite has any good benefits?



No.  None, nadda, zero....

To the OP: Read the above posts with a grain of salt.  Everyone has a different perspective and I don't think you were asking if being a level of elite is worth it or not.  I am 5* and I LOVE my status, all of my upgrades (I always have gotten one, even when traveling to the timeshares...).  I would do it again in a heartbeat!

But anything below 5* is not worth it.

My advice is to first decide if it's right for you to try to pursue 5* elite.  I would not try to settle for 4* or less as it's worthless at this point.  Either go for the 649,000 SOs or forget buying from the developer entirely.

Then decide the best way to get to 5* without spending too much money (on developer purchases).  Resales are a dime a dozen nowadays.  If you just want to go where you own, buy resale.  Otherwise see my post above for trying to aim for Platinum status using the retro they offered you just now.

Katherine


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## DanCali (Feb 15, 2010)

IMO it is not worth paying six figures (this is more or less the cost) to get to 5* Elite. Even if you can retro 2 for 1, you still need to buy at least two developer weeks. You lose 90% of your investment on those 8 or 11 days after you buy. And you need to pay maintenance fees on 4 (if you have two 3BR HRA units) or more likely 5 units each year. Today, that's about $10K give or take... In 5 years it may be $15K a year at this rate... It's certainly not for everyone.

Anyone pursuing this should consider that the best SO/MF ratios are at WKV Platinum and HRA 3BR Platinum. Those are relatively expensive to buy resale... A true Platinum SDO would be ideal for this, but takes a lot of patience to find one. Some of the voluntary Florida resorts have good ratios too, but you will need 1 or 2 more units to get to 5* Elite since they don't offer 148K SOs in prime season.




SDKath said:


> I would do it again in a heartbeat!



All that said, quite a few 5* Elite seem happy with the benefits. I recently asked this exact question (would you do it all over again?) and got a couple of replies...

Maybe it's like HD television. You don't know what you are missing until you have it...


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## Fredm (Feb 15, 2010)

jerseygirl said:


> We've created a mythical value of SVN here on TUG.  But, the bottom line is that the non-SVN units are getting better exchanges than the SVN units .... especially on a "dollar spent" for "dollar spent" basis.



AMEN!


..........


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## YYJMSP (Feb 15, 2010)

SDKath said:


> But anything below 5* is not worth it.



My two bits.

A matter of opinion.  We're 4* and not interested in going to 5* -- the only extra perk of "value" would be the SPG Platinum (now that the villa upgrades have disappeared), but we already have the SPG Platinum every year through work-related stays.

If we didn't have SPG Platinum through work, I would say the cost is less than $3000/year (25 individual night stays at our local Four Points), and often quite a bit less through promotions where nights count twice (so only need 13 stays for $1500ish).  MFs for the extra units required to go from 4* to 5* would probably be more than $1500-$3000/year, plus the up-front purchase costs.

Going from 3* to 4* was worth it for us with saving the $99 SPG conversion fee per unit, and the 10% premium on SPG conversions -- for those of us who make use of that benefit (don't shoot! we've had that argument before).  I think that we're getting a good balance of extra value with the additional units and the SPG conversions extras/savings.

Yes, fuzzy math...

And of course, I fully understand that my concepts of perceived value are completely different from everyone else's.


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## DanCali (Feb 15, 2010)

jerseygirl said:


> We've created a mythical value of SVN here on TUG.



It's not just on TUG... It's a value very much reflected in resale market prices of WKV and SVV versus their voluntary neighboring resorts.

Justified or not is more of a subjective matter, and also depends of how the future of SVN pans out...


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## jerseygirl (Feb 15, 2010)

DanCali said:


> It's not just on TUG... It's a value very much reflected in resale market prices of WKV and SVV versus their voluntary neighboring resorts.
> 
> Justified or not is more of a subjective matter, and also depends of how the future of SVN pans out...



Agreed ... but I believe much of the extra value comes from perceptions derived from TUG -- the largest pool of timeshare information on the internet.


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## l2trade (Feb 15, 2010)

jerseygirl said:


> Agreed ... but I believe much of the extra value comes from perceptions derived from TUG -- the largest pool of timeshare information on the internet.



Agreed ... it is past due for us all to correct those flawed perceptions with reality.  

SVN is simply a broken system, a complete rip-off.  The only thing I like about SVN is the mythical value which leads to higher resale demand & prices.  If Starwood opens SVN resale to everyone, I will sell all my units ASAP.  I figure if there are enough suckers who see value in SVN and believe the Starwood marketing hype, they can have it.

My ownership is worth more in trade to II or RCI than SVN, any day of the week.  It amazes me how so few owners realize they could often do much better (full 7 days, same size unit or better) by simply DUMPING their SVN membership and trading outside the network system, especially if they don't own a Platinum only week.  Hmm...  Now that would make a statement, right?  Maybe we can get a large group of owners to DUMP SVN membership all at once.  Many folks will lose it when they go to sell anyways, so why not go ahead and save the annual fees now?


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## DanCali (Feb 15, 2010)

l2trade said:


> SVN is simply a broken system, a complete rip-off.



Although I am not known among Starwood's advocates, I respectfully disagree with this. 

There are plenty of Starwood owners who never even logged into an II account and are (or were) perfectly happy with their ownership and ability to trade internally. Sentiment here was much different as recently as 6 months ago when I found TUG. Any unhappiness developed with SVO is probably more likely due to MF increases and II rule changes rather than problems with SVN, and yes - there are a few of those problems. My short personal experience with SVN so far has been an 8 out of 10.

Not that II is not a good trading venue, but Starwood has done enough in my eyes to make II a very unattractive venue for trading Starwood properties. Moreover, the ability to "trade up" via cheap SDO or Orlando units depends on too many things that are subject to change (cheap MFs, bulk deposits, access to sightings board on a consistent basis, etc) and even then the people who make the most of it are the ones who can travel off peak since peak weeks are more often than not kept in SVN. In the short run, the unit may "pay for itself" but if and when trading power changes you may get stuck with a deeded asset that you can't dispose of. I'd be very unlikely to buy a volunary resort just to trade - and this sentiment is probably shared by most and reflected in resale prices of voluntary resorts. Not to mention that this strategy goes against the conventional advice TUG offers most people ("buy where you want to go")

All that said, I believe creating voluntary resorts was a tremendous short sighted mistake that is costing Starwood dearly today as more and more prospective buyers learn during their recission period that they lose 95% or more of their initial investment.


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## vistana101 (Feb 15, 2010)

DanCali said:


> Although I am not known among Starwood's advocates, I respectfully disagree with this.
> 
> There are plenty of Starwood owners who never even logged into an II account and are (or were) perfectly happy with their ownership and ability to trade internally. Sentiment here was much different as recently as 6 months ago when I found TUG. Any unhappiness developed with SVO is probably more likely due to MF increases and II rule changes rather than problems with SVN, and yes - there are a few of those problems. My short personal experience with SVN so far has been an 8 out of 10.
> 
> ...


I agree. While SVN has its ups and downs, it is a great way to easily get into other starwood resorts. starwood has put too many rules and exceptions into II to make it a simple, well-organized trade.It is a good comfort, if anything, to have the ability to trade internally.


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## grgs (Feb 15, 2010)

jerseygirl said:


> We've created a mythical value of SVN here on TUG.  But, the bottom line is that the non-SVN units are getting better exchanges than the SVN units .... especially on a "dollar spent" for "dollar spent" basis.



Depends on the situation.  It is true that you can make great uptrades in II (i.e. a 1 bedroom SDO unit trading for a 2 bedroom WKORV unit).  However, these are mainly non-peak weeks.  My family is tied to the school calendar--I doubt I'd be able to make that trade in late June or July.  However, I have traded into WKORV and Harborside in summer via SVN.  So for me, SVN still holds value.

Glorian


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## l2trade (Feb 15, 2010)

DanCali said:


> Although I am not known among Starwood's advocates, I respectfully disagree with this.
> 
> There are plenty of Starwood owners who never even logged into an II account and are (or were) perfectly happy with their ownership and ability to trade internally. Sentiment here was much different as recently as 6 months ago when I found TUG. Any unhappiness developed with SVO is probably more likely due to MF increases and II rule changes rather than problems with SVN, and yes - there are a few of those problems. My short personal experience with SVN so far has been an 8 out of 10.


Yes, my unhappiness developed with SVO due to MF increases, II rule changes and other consumer unfriendly practices.  I'm not eligible to be an SVN member.  I've researched in depth what I own at my voluntary resort.  The StarOption values don't even come close to offering the quality, quantity and low cost I get through II.  In my situation, I do not want it.  Yes, we can respectfully disagree.  We probably own different resorts and utilize our ownerships differently.  Starwood has brilliantly created this messy network which pits different classes of owners against each other.  


DanCali said:


> Not that II is not a good trading venue, but Starwood has done enough in my eyes to make II a very unattractive venue for trading Starwood properties.


What gives Starwood the right to do what they did?  As you note, Starwood did 'enough to make II a very unattractive venue'.  They did this unilaterally and without communication.  They will not budge or seek a compromise to our complaints about loss of true 'request first'.  Can all owners trust this company long term?


DanCali said:


> Moreover, the ability to "trade up" via cheap SDO or Orlando units depends on too many things that are subject to change (cheap MFs, bulk deposits, access to sightings board on a consistent basis, etc). In the short run, the unit may "pay for itself" but if and when trading power changes you may get stuck with a deeded asset that you can't dispose of. I'd be very unlikely to buy a volunary resort just to trade - and this sentiment is probably shared by most and reflected in resale prices of voluntary resorts. Not to mention that this strategy goes against the conventional advice TUG offers most people ("buy where you want to go")


So, the Starwood name is on a bunch of voluntary resorts with little to no resale value.  I'm already 'stuck with a deeded asset'.  Actually, I'm stuck with many of them.  What does this say about Starwood as a company?  What will this mean longer term to all the resale values across the SVN network?  If SVN is so great, why don't they use it to improve the resale values across the entire network?  


DanCali said:


> All that said, I believe creating voluntary resorts was a tremendous short sighted mistake that is costing Starwood dearly today as more and more prospective buyers learn during their recission period that they lose 95% or more of their initial investment.


On this point, I couldn't agree with you more!  I know Starwood is reading our complaints, _*but still no response to fix the problems*_...


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## DeniseM (Feb 16, 2010)

I know that some people can and do make 5 Star Elite work very well for them (SDKath is one of them.)  But I don't think it's for everyone and I don't think it's responsible to promote 5 Star Elite Status as a goal for everyone.

Requirements to be a successful 5 Star Elite:

√Expert understanding of requalifying
√Expert negotiating skills
√Expert understanding of the Starwood system and owner options
√Disposable income of around $100K[+] to buy-in
√Yearly disposable income of $10-$15K for maintenance fees
√The ability to absorb MF increases of 10% a year
√4-6 weeks of vacation time per year
√Upscale travel habits to take advantage of SPG Plat

YMMV 

BTW - I did have one Elite owner (not a regular) send me an email and essentially say, "Now that I own all these weeks, I don't know what to do with them."  She had the $$$ to become 5 Star Elite, but she didn't have the knowledge to organize it all and get the most out of it.  I felt bad about her situation.  I think it takes some serious disposable income and real skills to make it all work.


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## jerseygirl (Feb 16, 2010)

DanCali said:


> There are plenty of Starwood owners who never even logged into an II account and are (or were) perfectly happy with their ownership and ability to trade internally.



Agreed ... those same people are often very happy trading a two-bedroom SDO/WKV/SVR lockoff through Starwood for a one-bedroom somewhere better .... when they could have gotten a 2-BR for a 2-BR (or a 2-BR for a 1-BR) through II.  That's the point I was making.  Ignorance is often bliss.  Glorian is correct that a lot of the really successful trading is affected by one's ability to travel outside peak seasons -- but, based on the sightings posted recently, that's not completely accurate either.  The bottom line, in my opinion, is Starwood has boxed themselves into StarOption values that do not always match reality.  And, because of these imbalances, it is very easy to get better trades by using II for MANY people (maybe not all).  When you add in the difference in upfront costs (e.g., $50000 vs $3), the II argument is even more compelling.



DanCali said:


> Sentiment here was much different as recently as 6 months ago when I found TUG. Any unhappiness developed with SVO is probably more likely due to MF increases and II rule changes rather than problems with SVN, and yes - there are a few of those problems. My short personal experience with SVN so far has been an 8 out of 10.



I don't disagree, but the "recent unpleasantness" has caused some of us to study our SVN documents, and the repercussions of some of the policies .... to uncover some of the dirt, per se.  For example, isn't anyone concerned with the fact that Starwood can pull unreserved weeks 30-days after the start of the home resort preference period (i.e., at 11-months) for *anticipated* SPG conversions?  Who's balancing that procedure???  And, did you know that Starwood is required by law to publish an annual exchange summary?  I've been an SVN member for at least five years and have only ever seen them with purchase documents (and they've been out-of-date, at that).   Since I most definitely haven't made an annual purchase, I'm quite confident I haven't been receiving my annual summary of exchange activity -- have you?  But, I digress.



DanCali said:


> Not that II is not a good trading venue, but Starwood has done enough in my eyes to make II a very unattractive venue for trading Starwood properties. Moreover, the ability to "trade up" via cheap SDO or Orlando units depends on too many things that are subject to change (cheap MFs, bulk deposits, access to sightings board on a consistent basis, etc) and even then the people who make the most of it are the ones who can travel off peak since peak weeks are more often than not kept in SVN.



I disagree completely.  There are WONDERFUL non-Starwood timeshares out there.  We've used II to trade to London, Venice, Greece, Four Seasons, many beautiful Marriott's -- and I've probably spent an average of 4 weeks/year in beautiful timeshares in the heart of the French Quarter during the past four years while my daughter was a college student in New Orleans.  All courtesy of very inexpensive traders.  If all Starwood-to-Starwood trading went away, I'd be just fine -- provided II gave me the trading power my units commanded before Starwood messed with them.



DanCali said:


> In the short run, the unit may "pay for itself" but if and when trading power changes you may get stuck with a deeded asset that you can't dispose of. I'd be very unlikely to buy a voluntary resort just to trade - and this sentiment is probably shared by most and reflected in resale prices of voluntary resorts. Not to mention that this strategy goes against the conventional advice TUG offers most people ("buy where you want to go")



I agree that there's always risk that one may get stuck with a deeded asset you can't dispose of -- but I think the same is true of mandatory resorts given the maintenance fee increase history with Starwood.  A successful resort depends on great management -- and, unfortunately, I don't think we have that with Starwood.  

And ... I strongly disagree that the majority of people on TUG "buy where they want to go."  It sounds good, for all the right reasons, but why do we have thousands of posts dedicated to trading, resort reviews, etc. if everyone buys where they want to go?!  On a personal level, we do own 4 resorts/systems that we always use (Harborside, WSJ, Hyatt and Hilton Points).  But, we own even more that we trade -- we'd get bored if we didn't experience new places every year.  But, we've been careful to buy resorts that we would be willing to use if there was no other choice.  So, I guess our mantra is "Buy a combination of where you want to go and where you wouldn't mind going if great trading opportunities ever evaporate!"

My way may not be right for everyone -- but, I hate to break it you, your way isn't either!


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## jerseygirl (Feb 16, 2010)

DeniseM said:


> I know that some people can and do make 5 Star Elite work very well for them (SDKath is one of them.)  But I don't think it's for everyone and I don't think it's responsible to promote 5 Star Elite Status as a goal for everyone.
> 
> Requirements to be a successful 5 Star Elite:
> 
> ...



Denise -- this is an excellent summary.  I would add one more point -- you not only need the disposable income/excess capital of $100K to buy-in (and I think it costs most people at least 40-50% more than that since they raised the 5* SO level), you need to completely not care that those assets depreciate 70% (or more) the moment you walk out the door.  I've worked in wealth management/private banking for the last 25+ years.  This last trait is not a function of how much money one has.  It's psychological -- you need to understand it, be able to take the hit financially should circumstances change and you need/want to sell, and most importantly, not lose a moment's sleep about the loss of principle.  In other words, it needs to be like an expensive toy -- bought purely for enjoyment, with no expectation of recouping your funds in the future.

I've seen billionaires cry over the loss of $100,000 .... and watched relative paupers say, "oh well" over an even greater loss.  Again, it's part of one's psyche, not a function of how much money one has.

I can blow $XXXX on a slot machine and not lose a moment's sleep because it's entertainment -- I'm having fun!  But, if my dryer breaks, I'm suicidal at the thought of having to go buy a new one.  I know ... it makes no sense, but it's who I am -- we all have our priorities and household appliances just aren't mine!


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## DeniseM (Feb 16, 2010)

Hi jerseygirl - $100K was probably conservative - I know one Tugger who did it for less, but they are probably the exception.



> you need to completely not care that those assets depreciate 70% (or more) the moment you walk out the door.



Good point!  I don't think I'm there yet (or ever!)


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## jerseygirl (Feb 16, 2010)

DeniseM said:


> Hi jerseygirl - $100K was probably conservative - I know one Tugger who did it for less, but they are probably the exception.



Yes ... probably definitely the exception.  And, it takes some serious analysis to estimate the long-term costs as well.  If Starwood is back to allowing "2 for 1" retros (per the OP's original post), SD Kath is 100% correct that the best way to do it is not with SBP and SVR -- again, the SO values are far too low.  One would need to maximize the SOs while at the same time minimize the annual MFs by buying the lowest cost/highest SO value resorts out there on the resale market (e.g., SMV platinum, SDO true platinum, Lagunamar Platinum).  One thing you don't want to end up with is 8 or 9 "forever" maintenance fees when you could have done it with 4.5.

And, at the end of the day, you really only own your deeds.  I'd want to make darn sure that I would be thrilled to own the underlying properties forever.  For me, that's Harborside and WSJ only .... for others, it's WKORV/N or WPORV (too far for me)!.  Yes, we visit Orlando and Mexico fairly often and wouldn't mind visiting Myrtle Beach ... but would I want to own in any of those places forever?  Not really.  And, I hate cold weather ... so Colorado is out too.  Bottom line -- my list of "forever" places is extremely small .... and I wouldn't spend the extra funds to end up with a portfolio of places that wouldn't work for me "forever" (it's a long time!).


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## Troopers (Feb 16, 2010)

Different strokes for different folks.


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## jerseygirl (Feb 16, 2010)

Troopers said:


> Different strokes for different folks.



Amen, sister (brother?)!


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## DavidnRobin (Feb 16, 2010)

What jerseygirl and DeniseM state above is very important in the trek to Elite/PFL - and IMO - spending an additional $32K (plus annual increase in MFs - and the sure to arise Special Assessment) is not a good use of money to get to 4* (compared to the benefits - which could change on a whim)

Added: as to the value of a SP (being ~2.5 cents per SP) - this was based on an extensive spreadsheet that a FT person put together last year based on every SPG hotel.  The so called 'fuzzy' math example is like this (in my own personal experience)... we stayed for 5 nites at the Westin Paris in a room that was listed at 750 EU per nite (~$1100 per nite USD) - total cost ~ $5500, SPs ~ 80K - therefore, about 7 cents per SP - WOW!  {if I was selling TSs} However, what does it really cost to stay in that room ($500/nite?)... or would I even normally spend that much to stay in a hotel in Paris w/o those SPs? (probably more like $300 per nite)

so..
at $1100/nite ~7c/SP
at $500/nite ~3c/SP
at $300/nite ~2c/SP

so... what did it really cost me?
of course try and get as much value as you can (in the eye of the beholder) - but normal usage is around 2.5c/SP
(our surreal upgrade at the Park Lane in London was probably more like 10c/SP - in fuzzy math terms - and w/o SPs we would have never been in that room - or stayed at the hotels that we did).

The good news is - by purely using our AMEX SPG - we have already accumulated another 225K SPs

...and of course YMMV


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## DeniseM (Feb 16, 2010)

Troopers said:


> Different strokes for different folks.



So Troopers, does this mean you are still working toward 5 Star Elite status?


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## Troopers (Feb 16, 2010)

jerseygirl said:


> Amen, sister (brother?)!



That would be brother.



DeniseM said:


> So Troopers, does this mean you are still working toward 5 Star Elite status?



Nope.  Never was working towards 5 star elite status.  I thought about it but the idea died quickly.  It was a no brainer for me.  

My initial reaction to original post was yeah for Starwood to offer a 2 for 1 retro deal.  But the thread turned into 5 star pros vs cons, than I sigh'd...here we go again.


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## DanCali (Feb 16, 2010)

Troopers said:


> Nope.  Never was working towards 5 star elite status.  I thought about it but the idea died quickly.  It was a no brainer for me.



I too was toying with the idea and calmed down after some thought. Primary reasons for deciding against it are the fact that I usually vacation 3 weeks at most and one of those is family visits so having that many weeks overall (9-10 after lockoffs) is a lot more than I need or desire to rent. Also, the thought of losing 90%+ on the 3 developer purchases was a bit much. Now that it's possibly doable with only 2 developer purchases it doesn't change things much... I'd still lose close to $80K if I did this... In 2009 MFs didn't seem that ridiculous yet, but now that too imo is now a big reason not to make such a big commitment with Starwood.

Good thread though - summarize the cons very well for whoever is considering this path these uncertain days.


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## James1975NY (Feb 16, 2010)

l2trade said:


> My ownership is worth more in trade to II or RCI than SVN, any day of the week.  It amazes me how so few owners realize they could often do much better (full 7 days, same size unit or better) by simply DUMPING their SVN membership and trading outside the network system, especially if they don't own a Platinum only week.  Hmm...  Now that would make a statement, right?  Maybe we can get a large group of owners to DUMP SVN membership all at once.  Many folks will lose it when they go to sell anyways, so why not go ahead and save the annual fees now?



As with all/most points based programs, SVN was designed with a more realistic picture of what is equal/fair trade among other seasons, properties etc.. I have not seen any threads about unfair StarOption valuations as of yet so I am going to assume that the previous statement is safe to say on TUG.

It is fantastic that you are able to exchange through II and RCI and accomplish some of the trades that you have executed - no question about it. It is great to see you are getting "more bang for the buck". Hopefully these trades will continue to be available to you in the years to come. No guarantees.


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## DanCali (Feb 16, 2010)

James1975NY said:


> I have not seen any threads about unfair StarOption valuations as of yet....



I think you hit on a sensitive button here with HRA and WSJ owners... expect replies on this one soon!


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## James1975NY (Feb 16, 2010)

jerseygirl said:


> I can blow $XXXX on a slot machine and not lose a moment's sleep because it's entertainment -- I'm having fun!  But, if my dryer breaks, I'm suicidal at the thought of having to go buy a new one.  I know ... it makes no sense, but it's who I am -- we all have our priorities and household appliances just aren't mine!



That is too funny! Sounds like me. Assuming of course the $XXXX at least gave me a full nights worth of anxiety attacks :hysterical:


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## grgs (Feb 16, 2010)

DanCali said:


> I think you hit on a sensitive button here with HRA and WSJ owners... expect replies on this one soon!



I just thought the same thing!


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## jerseygirl (Feb 16, 2010)

James1975NY said:


> As with all/most points based programs, SVN was designed with a more realistic picture of what is equal/fair trade among other seasons, properties etc..



By amateurs, apparently!  



James1975NY said:


> I have not seen any threads about unfair StarOption valuations as of yet so I am going to assume that the previous statement is safe to say on TUG.



You haven't been paying attention!   



James1975NY said:


> No guarantees.



None expected here, just an even playing field!  

P.S.  Pleased to meet someone else who would rather spend money on a slot machine than a high-efficiency dryer!  Don't tell anyone, but my pots and pans are almost 30 years old  ... and although we finally have silverware for 20+, the sets don't all match.     Why would I buy new kitchen stuff when Vegas is practically paying me to visit?!


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## jerseygirl (Feb 16, 2010)

Troopers said:


> That would be brother.



Thanks mon!



Troopers said:


> My initial reaction to original post was yeah for Starwood to offer a 2 for 1 retro deal.  But the thread turned into 5 star pros vs cons, than I sigh'd...here we go again.



I'm sorry you feel that way.  I think this thread contains many great responses to someone who asked for an opinion on a retro deal that would get him/her very close to 5* elite.  And, I think the OP is sophisticated enough to weigh the various opinions, throw some out, and make the decision that is best for him/her.  That's what makes TUG a great place!


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## clsmit (Feb 16, 2010)

Back to the OP, I'm guessing what really was purchased was 2 EOYs to do 2 retros. That's the deal we did at Cancun last year. It just feels like an EY because you have Cancun every year.

And like DeniseM commented, you have to be able to manage your 5* inventory. I'm still learning. If I could get the DH to commit to his summer 2010 plans I could finish my 2010/2011 scheduling!


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## Troopers (Feb 16, 2010)

jerseygirl said:


> I'm sorry you feel that way.  I think this thread contains many great responses to someone who asked for an opinion on a retro deal that would get him/her very close to 5* elite.  And, I think the OP is sophisticated enough to weigh the various opinions, throw some out, and make the decision that is best for him/her.  That's what makes TUG a great place!



No need to be sorry.  I read the original post about the legitimacy of a 2 for 1 retro deal, not why/why not and how/best way to become 5* elite.

With that said, I agree this is a great thread....this topic (and II vs SVN trading) has been discussed over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again.  That's all.


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## DeniseM (Feb 16, 2010)

And as long as the question keeps popping up, or new info. becomes  available, or new people visit TUG, that's not likely to change!  Although this may be old news to us, there will always be newbies asking for the first time.


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## jarta (Feb 17, 2010)

DeniseM,   "Requirements to be a successful 5 Star Elite:

√Expert understanding of requalifying
√Expert negotiating skills
√Expert understanding of the Starwood system and owner options
√Disposable income of around $100K to buy-in
√Yearly disposable income of $10-$15K for maintenance fees
√The ability to absorb MF increases of 10% a year
√4-6 weeks of vacation time per year
√Upscale travel habits to take advantage of SPG Plat"

The $10K-$15K for yearly MF is slightly too high.

The "negotiating skills" are not necessary.  With the special Elite reservation number, there is no need to negotiate anything.  Subject to availability, what you want is what you get without having to negotiate.  It's what 5 Star Elite is all about.

The $100K buy in is, unfortunately, too low.  And, it would not come from "income."  It would come from accumulated disposable assets.

The rest of the requirements I agree with.  5 Star Elite is not for everyone.   ...   eom


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## DanCali (Feb 17, 2010)

jarta said:


> The "negotiating skills" are not necessary.  With the special Elite reservation number, there is no need to negotiate anything.  Subject to availability, what you want is what you get without having to negotiate.  It's what 5 Star Elite is all about.



Negotiating skills may certainly be required if one buys all these units but doesn't intend to use them all... If part of the intent is to rent unused weeks, negotiating skills may come in handy.

One may also need negotiating skills to buy the resle units they intend to retro. Otherwise, one may end up paying RedWeek asking prices for SMV ski weeks.


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## jerseygirl (Feb 17, 2010)

And ... there's definitely behind the scenes negotiating on many of these retro deals.  If you believe the rules are the same for everyone, I've got a bridge in Brooklyn for sale!  People have just learned, the hard way, to stay quiet about their good fortunes.


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## jarta (Feb 17, 2010)

I thought DeniseM was posting what was necessary to be a "successful" 5 Star Elite.  I did not think she was posting what was necessary to get to be 5 Star Elite.

I don't see bidding on eBay for purchases to retro as involving much negotiating skill.  I was offered and used 2 every other year purchases at Lagunamar for retroing 2 non-developer weeks.  

If you meant to imply I got a better deal than anyone else, I didn't.  But, if you meant negotiating was involved in the retros, thanks for the compliment - but it really wasn't.   ...   eom


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## J&JFamily (Feb 17, 2010)

DeniseM said:


> And as long as the question keeps popping up, or new info. becomes  available, or new people visit TUG, that's not likely to change!  Although this may be old news to us, there will always be newbies asking for the first time.



Thank you Denise.  I'm relatively new to TUG and I learn so much from reading the threads.  What may be repetitious and old news to some is very informative to others.  And, like many of you, I was uninformed when I paid full price for my WKORVN (can you say UGH!) so I want to learn as much as possible about timesharing and the SVN/II system so I can maximize my use and make the best use of my purchase (and possible future purchases).


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## jerseygirl (Feb 17, 2010)

Jarta -- I'm not sure if your post was directed to me, but I was simply stating that I'm aware of several people who got better than "2 Annuals for 2 EOYs."  But, does it really matter?  A successful negotation means that both parties felt they won.  That's all that really counts.  As has been stated on this board many times, a "deal" is truly in the eyes of the beholder.


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## DeniseM (Feb 17, 2010)

Yes - my post included what I consider essential requirements for attaining and successfully maintaining 5 Star Elite.   

As far a negotiating, there is a 5 Star Elite Tugger that I consider to be an expert negotiator, and they reached 5 Star Elite for quite a bit less then $100K. 

YMMV


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## DeniseM (Feb 17, 2010)

J&JFamily said:


> Thank you Denise.  I'm relatively new to TUG and I learn so much from reading the threads.  What may be repetitious and old news to some is very informative to others.  And, like many of you, I was uninformed when I paid full price for my WKORVN (can you say UGH!) so I want to learn as much as possible about timesharing and the SVN/II system so I can maximize my use and make the best use of my purchase (and possible future purchases).



My pleasure!  Glad you found us!


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## DavidnRobin (Feb 17, 2010)

Re: the need for good negotiation skills (and effort required) was intended to for optimal requaling of resales and getting as many SP incentives as possible (at any level).  I had first hand knowledge of this - for example: a same day Explorer Package to maximize SPs, requaling an EY with an EOY, getting an EOY for 1/2 price of EY as a non-SVO owner, etc.

If one wants to pay full price - and have standard requals - then no negotiation skills necessary.

The cost and MFs depends on the VOIs one wants to own.

It is a double-edged sword for being public about requal deals (and shortcuts to Elite status) because if there is no mechanism for sharing this info (e.g. TUG), then how would others ever know?  One reason the Requal thread is the most read here on TUG...
Of course staying quiet until the deal is done is wise...
The issue really resides with SVO in their lack of standardization for doing this - and of course their backwards thinking in resales/requals.


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## DeniseM (Feb 17, 2010)

DavidnRobin said:


> Re: the need for good negotiation skills (and effort required) was intended to for optimal requaling of resales and getting as many SP incentives as possible (at any level).



Exactly what I was trying to say!  I guess I shouldn't have assumed it was obvious.


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## l2trade (Feb 17, 2010)

Acheving Starwood 5* Elite Status requires both time & money.  Actually, acheiving any kind of status takes time & money.  For each person seeking status, the equation of money versus time will vary.  If one cares more about cost, they will negotiate and find ways to acheive it with less money.  If one cares more about time, they will just pay what is required.

If one cares about value over status, they would closely weigh the real benefits to them for acheiving such status.  Status for status sake is worth absolutely nothing to me.  And, of course, I understand that many folks differ and place great value on status for status sake.  Good for them.  I respect everyone's freedom to do that.  My dirty car will be the one parked next to your shiny BMW at Mission Hills.  I'll race you to the last pool chair in Maui.   

From my POV, the current cost and commitment to become 5* Elite is a ripoff, plain & simple.  Let's just look at how I often get many of the same benefits:
- Priority Early Villa Check-in / Late Check-Out:  Ask politely
- Room view upgrades:  Ask politely
- SVN Elite Wait List While Holding Prior Reservation:  Use II request first instead.  Oops, can't do that anymore?  Put in the time to join our complaints and upcoming lawsuit to restore this owners' right for everyone.


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## DeniseM (Feb 17, 2010)

I think SPG Platinimum for life has value for people who regularly travel first class - but that wouldn't be me!  I am strictly a Priceline hotel kinda gal, so SPG Plat wouldn't benefit me, and I just don't have that kind of discretionary income.


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## jerseygirl (Feb 17, 2010)

DavidnRobin said:


> Re: the need for good negotiation skills (and effort required) was intended to for optimal requaling of resales and getting as many SP incentives as possible (at any level).  I had first hand knowledge of this - for example: a same day Explorer Package to maximize SPs, requaling an EY with an EOY, getting an EOY for 1/2 price of EY as a non-SVO owner, etc.
> 
> If one wants to pay full price - and have standard requals - then no negotiation skills necessary.
> 
> ...


  Requal strategies were shared freely and frequently via PM from the time I joined TUG in about 2002 until Duke posted his now famous thread.  It's a double edged sword...better deals or helping more people get worse <but better than full retail> details.


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## DavidnRobin (Feb 17, 2010)

I came to TUG in Dec 2005 - and would have never known about it (or to even ask) w/o Duke's thread - and w/o that thread I may have never known teh process and documents needed to protect me from getting screwed by SVO (as a few posters did at the time).  Of course - not finding it would have saved me about $10K in hindsight.  It is a double-edge sword...


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## jerseygirl (Feb 17, 2010)

DavidnRobin said:


> I came to TUG in Dec 2005 - and would have never known about it (or to even ask) w/o Duke's thread - and w/o that thread I may have never known teh process and documents needed to protect me from getting screwed by SVO (as a few posters did at the time).  Of course - not finding it would have saved me about $10K in hindsight.  It is a double-edge sword...



true. But if you had posted that you were thinking about buying, adding, or were in a recission period theses a great chance you would have received a private message.


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## tomandrobin (Feb 17, 2010)

Long time lurker, first time poster.  

I have enjoyed my platinum status so far. We have received excellent recognition and very frequent upgrades. Platinum status has opened addition perks that I didn't even know I had. 

We are not happy with the high maintenance fees that have been opposed on us, but the resorts that we visit are still top notch and we still continue to rent our excess weeks to cover our maintenance fees. Starwood works for us....still. 

Back to the OP's question - Having the opportunity to retro two units with the purchase of one is a good deal. If the units were worth 148,100 staroptions each, then it would be a great deal.


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## tomandrobin (Feb 17, 2010)

jerseygirl said:


> true. But if you had posted that you were thinking about buying, adding, or were in a recission period theses a great chance you would have received a private message.



Too funny....brings back memories of my first days on TUG. Every week kept getting PM's with advice and offers.


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## Henry M. (Feb 17, 2010)

Hi tomandrobin!

I am also still happy with my 5*, even though I don't like the increased maintenance fees. I bought in expecting the price of my units would fall and was OK with even no value at the end. I didn't quite expect the rate of increase of MF, but I do like the rest of the perks that come with the status. I like first class accommodations and I go abroad often, for business and for pleasure. Platinum status makes a huge difference in my circumstances.

I tend to use my ownership, but it hasn't been that difficult to rent out when I have something left over. When push comes to shove, Starpoints are valuable enough to me that I don't feel bad just converting. I know that is against the general feeling here, but if you travel at a certain level, they really are not that bad. It just depends on whether you would actually stay at the rooms you get even if you were paying out of your own pocket.

Henry


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## ck1 (Feb 18, 2010)

clsmit said:


> Back to the OP, I'm guessing what really was purchased was 2 EOYs to do 2 retros. That's the deal we did at Cancun last year. It just feels like an EY because you have Cancun every year.
> 
> And like DeniseM commented, you have to be able to manage your 5* inventory. I'm still learning. If I could get the DH to commit to his summer 2010 plans I could finish my 2010/2011 scheduling!



The deal I am going to RECIND is Starwood is going to retro 2 units for me with the purchase of 1 Lagunamar Purchase.  The Sales manager at the Cascades asured me it was a 2 for 1 deal.  I do have signed papers for proof. I told them this has not been done in years and they assured me that this was going to happen.  

My sales person was actually pretty good.  Once she figured out I already owned 4 weeks and wanted to retro some units, she figured I new more than her and she stopped the presentation and got the manager involved.  It was better than somebody trying to BS me for an hour.

5 star Elite is something I could use with the amount of travel I do.  I have decided to RECIND because the 2 units I was going to retro are worth 90,000 and 81,0000 options.  With my other 2 timeshares I could have 400,000 Options.  If I let this deal continue I would have spent around $75K for 548,000 options. Everything I own is a 2bd LO  (LGR,SDO,SBP,SVR)  MY LAGUNAMAR PAPER WORK SAYS I HAVE 10 DAYS TO MAIL IN TO RECIND.

I am going to look for a new resales with better options before I move forward.

By the way I am in a newly refurbished cascades unit and it is really nice.  The VIP check in was great also.  I had a free bottle of champaign waiting for me!

Craig K


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## oneohana (Feb 18, 2010)

DeniseM said:


> I think SPG Platinimum for life has value for people who regularly travel first class - but that wouldn't be me!  I am strictly a Priceline hotel kinda gal, so SPG Plat wouldn't benefit me, and I just don't have that kind of discretionary income.



Denise,
That is what *points are for. We rarely pay for a room.
We do not travel first class unless we are staying at a *wood resort.


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## SDKath (Feb 18, 2010)

ck1 said:


> The deal I am going to RECIND is Starwood is going to retro 2 units for me with the purchase of 1 Lagunamar Purchase.  The Sales manager at the Cascades asured me it was a 2 for 1 deal.  I do have signed papers for proof. I told them this has not been done in years and they assured me that this was going to happen.
> 
> My sales person was actually pretty good.  Once she figured out I already owned 4 weeks and wanted to retro some units, she figured I new more than her and she stopped the presentation and got the manager involved.  It was better than somebody trying to BS me for an hour.
> 
> ...



Good idea!  548,000 SOs is short of 5* so it's better to make sure you pick up the right resales to get you to 649,000 before you approach them again.  I know TUG's been super down on Starwood/II lately but I LOVE my 5* platinum, I love having tons of SOs and I absolutely LOVE having so many Starpoints that I never have to pay for another airline ticket again.  I am flying first class everywhere and staying at the nicest hotels now!  It's fantastic!!!  Our quality of life and travel days have improved so much thanks to the Elite status perks and the many options I now have. 

Putting on the flame suit as many will point out what a "bad deal" it is and how it's 2.5c per SP and so on....  But that's ok because we are totally happy!!

Katherine


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## Troopers (Feb 18, 2010)

SDKath said:


> I know TUG's been super down on Starwood/II lately but I LOVE my 5* platinum, I love having tons of SOs and I absolutely LOVE having so many Starpoints that I never have to pay for another airline ticket again.  I am flying first class everywhere and staying at the nicest hotels now!  It's fantastic!!!  Our quality of life and travel days have improved so much thanks to the Elite status perks and the many options I now have.
> 
> Putting on the flame suit as many will point out what a "bad deal" it is and how it's 2.5c per SP and so on....  But that's ok because we are totally happy!!
> 
> Katherine



That's great Kath (and TnR, Henry, Jarta, others).  Do enjoy it.  Life is short.

I am 5* elite envy.  Maybe I need to reevaluate.


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## DavidnRobin (Feb 18, 2010)

I think it is great as well - the comment about a SP being at an approximate valuation of 2.5c/SP was just an FIO (not good or bad).

I do not have 5*/PFL envy because I already have more SPs and SOs than I can use (and our MFs are over $10K as it is...)


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## DeniseM (Feb 18, 2010)

No flames here!  You have the skills, resources, and life-style to really make it work for you - but you are exceptional!


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## sjuhawk_jd (Feb 18, 2010)

DeniseM said:


> No flames here!  You have the skills, resources, and life-style to really make it work for you - but you are exceptional!



Kath sure is exceptional! In my opinion, her skills, her resources, and her willingness to education others on starwood 5*elite require "standing ovation" (even from those who have no need, no skills and resources, or desire to attain that). I was considering going for this a while ago since I love my starwood platinum status, but I figured out a less expensive way to maintain it. Much better for me than paying all this money to starwood! 

Overall, just like Kath, I am extremely pleased with timesharing as well as with starwood products (timeshares as well as upscale hotels).


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## James1975NY (Feb 18, 2010)

l2trade said:


> Yes, my unhappiness developed with SVO due to MF increases, II rule changes and other consumer unfriendly practices.  I'm not eligible to be an SVN member.  I've researched in depth what I own at my voluntary resort.  The StarOption values don't even come close to offering the quality, quantity and low cost I get through II.  In my situation, I do not want it.  Yes, we can respectfully disagree.  We probably own different resorts and utilize our ownerships differently.  Starwood has brilliantly created this messy network which pits different classes of owners against each other.
> 
> What gives Starwood the right to do what they did?  As you note, Starwood did 'enough to make II a very unattractive venue'.  They did this unilaterally and without communication.  They will not budge or seek a compromise to our complaints about loss of true 'request first'.  Can all owners trust this company long term?
> 
> ...



I think what is interesting here as I read this is that I am seeing two different owners showing how they make use of the SVO product. SVN or not, it appears to me that there are a number of different usage scenarios that can be achieved through ownership at SVO. Some like the club aspect, some like the week for week trade and maximizing their ownership that way.


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## SDKath (Feb 18, 2010)

sjuhawk_jd said:


> Kath sure is exceptional! In my opinion, her skills, her resources, and her willingness to education others on starwood 5*elite require "standing ovation" (even from those who have no need, no skills and resources, or desire to attain that). I was considering going for this a while ago since I love my starwood platinum status, but I figured out a less expensive way to maintain it. Much better for me than paying all this money to starwood!
> 
> Overall, just like Kath, I am extremely pleased with timesharing as well as with starwood products (timeshares as well as upscale hotels).



 [blushing]  Thanks for the compliments.  I didn't negotiate much throughout the process but it sure is a bit of planning and juggling to get all my weeks lined up a year in advance.  

I use SOs heavily (meaning I don't stay where I own most of the time) so I have to be conscious of the 8 month window too.  I did spend way less than $100,000 for my 5* status and I pay less than $10,000 in MFs, but that's only because TUG kept me from buying at WKORV, where MFs are through the roof.

Katherine


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## duke (Feb 22, 2010)

clsmit said:


> Back to the OP, I'm guessing what really was purchased was 2 EOYs to do 2 retros. That's the deal we did at Cancun last year. It just feels like an EY because you have Cancun every year.



I agree. This is probably the way the deal would be structured.
duke


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## pointsjunkie (Feb 22, 2010)

SDKath said:


> Good idea!  548,000 SOs is short of 5* so it's better to make sure you pick up the right resales to get you to 649,000 before you approach them again.  I know TUG's been super down on Starwood/II lately but I LOVE my 5* platinum, I love having tons of SOs and I absolutely LOVE having so many Starpoints that I never have to pay for another airline ticket again.  I am flying first class everywhere and staying at the nicest hotels now!  It's fantastic!!!  Our quality of life and travel days have improved so much thanks to the Elite status perks and the many options I now have.
> 
> Putting on the flame suit as many will point out what a "bad deal" it is and how it's 2.5c per SP and so on....  But that's ok because we are totally happy!!
> 
> Katherine



i am in absolute agreement with Katherine, i love my 5* platinum, it changed the way we travel and how often i am able to travel. i still give a week to make a wish at mother's day, and rent out enough units to have most of my MF's paid for  and go on a vacation almost every month. life is good.


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## ck1 (Feb 22, 2010)

duke said:


> I agree. This is probably the way the deal would be structured.
> duke



Nope, It was a Every year for $32,900.  I am looking at it again right now.  Platinum Plus Anual Floating Week.

The Recind Papers were mailed out last friday.

Craig K


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## SDKath (Feb 22, 2010)

ck1 said:


> Nope, It was a Every year for $32,900.  I am looking at it again right now.  Platinum Plus Anual Floating Week.
> 
> The Recind Papers were mailed out last friday.
> 
> Craig K



Well that's interesting.  They still could have put 2 EOYs together into an EY (which is what they did for me initially without my knowledge) but when I found out I had 2 separate but tied together deeds, I complained and they gave me 1 EY deed instead.  It was quite a hassle and took some 6 months to correct and I ended up with a different unit number, but I thought there could potentially be a problem trying to resell a property advertised as EY but that has 2EOY deeds on file in FL!  I can't believe they didn't even inform me of it until after I got the recorded paperwork from the state!   

Katherine


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## DavidnRobin (Feb 23, 2010)

SDKath said:


> Well that's interesting.  They still could have put 2 EOYs together into an EY (which is what they did for me initially without my knowledge) but when I found out I had 2 separate but tied together deeds, I complained and they gave me 1 EY deed instead.  It was quite a hassle and took some 6 months to correct and I ended up with a different unit number, but I thought there could potentially be a problem trying to resell a property advertised as EY but that has 2EOY deeds on file in FL!  I can't believe they didn't even inform me of it until after I got the recorded paperwork from the state!
> 
> Katherine



you have negotiation skills that you are not aware of...


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## SDKath (Feb 23, 2010)

DavidnRobin said:


> you have negotiation skills that you are not aware of...



My DH say I have a strong  "inner bitch"?  Is that the same thing?  :rofl:


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