# This is maddening!



## Karen G (Jul 23, 2008)

About six years ago  we bought our house, but because we would not be ready to move into it until last summer, we rented it out.  Our first tenant leased the house for two years while his house was being built in the same neighborhood.

When he moved out the place was so trashed that we kept his security deposit and had to spend a couple of thousand dollars more to restore the house to rentable condition.  We had two other tenants in the house thereafter who took good care of the place, and we moved into it ourselves last year.

Last year a couple of months before moving in, while living in another state, we got notice from our former property manager that the first tenant was bringing a lawsuit against her for the return of the security deposit.  She hired an attorney to represent her and appeared in court to answer the complaint.  Turns out the lawsuit was filed in the wrong jurisdiction and was thrown out.  However, we had to pay her attorney fees as she was theoretically representing us as the property owner. 

A short time later we were served notice that the tenant was now suing us in small claims court in the correct jurisdiction.  We had to fly down to answer the complaint and we appeared in court at the appointed time, armed with photos, bills, much documentation, and our property manager. The tenant did not show up!  The case was dismissed.

Today I received a notice of judgement in the mail that the tenant has obtained against us.  It says he tried to have us served with his new complaint but was unable to, so he "published" notice of the new hearing, which happened July 21, unbeknownst to us!  We were never served any papers and had no idea he had filed a new complaint. Of course we never saw any published notice in the paper. Who knows what paper he even published it in.  (He's a lawyer, by the way.)

Now I'm waiting for a call back from the judge's assistant with information about what our options are. 

Anyone have any advice?  I'm thinking maybe we should bring a small claims case against him for the total amount of money he has cost us. I wonder how we can get this judgement dismissed because I think he can probably put a lien on our house with this judgement.  It just doesn't seem right that he can sue us again on this same matter when he didn't show up in court the last time.


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## pjrose (Jul 23, 2008)

Wow.  This person sounds disturbed, to say the least.  You say his house was being built in the same neighborhood - same as your house?  Does he still live there?   

Definitely consult a lawyer.  Maybe you can countersue for the damages plus all the expenses of these new legal problems.

Good thing you saved receipts, pictures, etc.  Keep documenting and saving copies.


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## ricoba (Jul 23, 2008)

Yikes!  

It are stories like this that make me thankful I have never been a landlord.

Good luck in resolving this mess.


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## CMF (Jul 23, 2008)

After all is said and done - write a letter to the Nevada Bar Association detailing what this bozo has done.  This character is like the JUDGE here in DC who sued his dry cleaner for $54 million for loosing a pair of pants!

Charles


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## Liz Wolf-Spada (Jul 23, 2008)

Definitely get a lawyer to get this guy to reimburse you and then GO AWAY, far away. 
Liz


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## Fern Modena (Jul 23, 2008)

When you speak to the judge's clerk, point out that he hadn't made a "good faith effort" to serve you.  Or even to send you a notice.  He should have sent you a letter to your last known address.  If he didn't know you were in the house, he would have sent it to the address you had in WA.  But we're both pretty sure that he knew you were in the house, so at the very least he should have sent a certified, return receipt requested letter to the property address.  

Make sure that the clerk knows he's a lawyer and is playing games, too.  What judge?  Not Stephen (Baby Daddy) Jones, I hope?  Bonaventure?  Williams?

Good luck!

Fern


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## e.bram (Jul 23, 2008)

If you go to court and the plaintiff does not appear, ask the judge to dismiss the complaint with prejudice. Then the planitiff cannot refile without filing a motion.


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## Karen G (Jul 23, 2008)

*Follow-up*

The judge is Rodney T. Burr.  We went to the courthouse and filed a form for a re-hearing.  Hopefully we'll get to appear before the judge and present our side of this.  We've also requested copies of all the documents  in the file so we can see where he supposedly had papers served. We'll get those tomorrow and see where we go from here.


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## Karen G (Jul 23, 2008)

Fern Modena said:


> But we're both pretty sure that he knew you were in the house, so at the very least he should have sent a certified, return receipt requested letter to the property address.


It's interesting that he sent the copy of the judgement to our house where we've lived for over a year now.  The clerk said he had the paper showing we were being sued again served at our former address in WA that we haven't lived at for about a year and a half.


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## CSB (Jul 23, 2008)

Karen, I don't have any advice but I wish you all the best of luck dealing with this lunatic. I wish there was something we could do about all the crazies who waste people's time and money on nonsense like this.


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## teepeeca (Jul 23, 2008)

I could be somewhat "confused" by all of this, BUT. let me see if "I" can wade through all of this mess.

If he/she did NOT show up for a hearing, not only should the case have been dismissed, BUT "favor" should have been found for you.  (Ask that presiding judge to enter a judgement in your favor---that should end everything.)

Next.  Since there has been another "legal" action, of course you will want to answer it.  BUT, respond by your own suit against the tenant (small claims court one person files---the other "really" doesn't want to do anything, BUT, NOW, you "ZAP" him !!!)

I am assuming that you had all of the proper paperwork to the tenant, showing WHY you are withholding some/all of the security deposit, AND, it was presented within the regulated timelines.

Tony


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## e.bram (Jul 24, 2008)

Put in a counterclaim for the damage costs exceeding the security. if he doesn't show up this time you will have a judgement aganist him. You should have done this the first time you went to court.


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## Karen G (Jul 24, 2008)

teepeeca said:


> I could be somewhat "confused" by all of this, BUT. let me see if "I" can wade through all of this mess.
> 
> If he/she did NOT show up for a hearing, not only should the case have been dismissed, BUT "favor" should have been found for you.  (Ask that presiding judge to enter a judgement in your favor---that should end everything.)
> 
> ...


At the first small claims action we showed up at the appointed time ready to present our case.  Since the tenant was the plaintiff and we were the defendants, when he didn't show up, the judge didn't let us give our side of the case. He just said the case was dismissed.  If we had filed a countersuit at the time we were served the first time, we could have presented our case.  But, we had consulted with a lawyer before we went and she said it would be best to answer the complaint, get that over with, and then pursue a separate small claims case.

As for the second legal action, we never were served papers notifying us that there was another lawsuit. We didn't show up for the hearing because we didn't know there was one! But, the plaintiff showed up and since we weren't there to defend ourselves, he got a judgement against us.

Now we've filed a paper with the judge for a re-hearing so that we can tell our side of the story.  Hopefully, we'll get to do that.


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## davhu1 (Jul 24, 2008)

Did your lease specified that you can keep the deposit for demages and that you sent a letter to the tenant when he moved out that you will not be returning the depsoit due to the condition of the property and allow him the opportunity to respond?  

If you keep the deposit, you usually have to inform the tenant the reason and have a walk thru with him based on the move-in / move-out condition of the unit.

Did you document the damage and expenses?

If you did, you should counter suit for expenses plus legal fees.  You also a have witness (property manager) to the damage.  so you should have a good case.

Your tenant is scaring you for money.  He has a laywer and does not cost him anything and hope you would give in.  Most state laws favor the tenants.

What is the role of the property manager?  Why isn't her company covering the cost of legal fee.  Did she do her job properly?


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## Autoeng (Jul 24, 2008)

Was the judgement against you filed in your home state?


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## e.bram (Jul 24, 2008)

You got bad advice. In NJ and presumably elsewhere all issues concerning the litigating parties must me presented at the same time. You would not have been permitted to sue later after the first case was adjuducated. This is known as the "docturn of entire controvesy"


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## Karen G (Jul 24, 2008)

e.bram said:


> You got bad advice.


Must be different in Nevada, and this is small claims court, so that may be different rules, too.  Anyway, they told us at the courthouse that even though the tenant had sued us once before on the same matter (when he didn't show up and it was dismissed), he could still bring another suit for the same thing.


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## Karen G (Jul 24, 2008)

davhu1 said:


> Did your lease specified that you can keep the deposit for demages and that you sent a letter to the tenant when he moved out that you will not be returning the depsoit due to the condition of the property and allow him the opportunity to respond?  Yes, we sent him the letter itemizing all the damages.
> 
> If you keep the deposit, you usually have to inform the tenant the reason and have a walk thru with him based on the move-in / move-out condition of the unit. We flew down from WA for the walk-through and had an appointment to meet him at the house. He never showed up then either!
> 
> ...



Now you can see why this is so MADDENING!


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## davhu1 (Jul 24, 2008)

My colleague had a similar situation with a tenant.  The tenant took him to small claims court and agreed on artibtration and then lost.  My colleague had all the proof.   I would consider consulting a lawyer and counter-suit.


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## Karen G (Jul 24, 2008)

davhu1 said:


> I would consider consulting a lawer and counter-suit.


That's our next step after we resolve the judgement issue.


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## pianodinosaur (Jul 24, 2008)

This sounds like a case for Bill O'Reilly.  He loves taking on pinhead judges on national TV.


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## Karen G (Jul 24, 2008)

*Update*

Today I went back to the courthouse to pick up copies of all the documentation pertaining to this latest small claims judgement, and the clerk let me know the judge had agreed to a re-hearing and it's scheduled for Monday morning at 8 a.m.   I can't wait to be able to present all our evidence to the judge.

In looking over the copies it really looks like the tenant/attorney tried his best to keep us from finding out he had sued us again.  We took the copy of the envelope of his demand letter (first step in filing a small claims & which is to be sent by certified mail, return receipt requested) to the post office to see if they could tell us if it had really been sent. The clerk said it didn't have a post office postmark--the law office had printed their own postage--and the certified mail sticker didn't have the round stamp that the post office puts on that sticker showing they accepted it.  We paid $4.35 to have it researched to see where it was received.  It was received at the tenant's law office and signed for by one of the employees there, but it never came to us!

The address for us on the document showing that we were being sued was our correct address where we now live.  But, the copies of the sheet showing where the papers were served to let us know we were being sued showed that a process server in Washington state tried to serve it to our former address and the lady who answered the door stated that we didn't live there anymore "but she thought we had moved to Nevada."

The tenant/attorney got permission from the judge to "publish" the notice that we were being sued since we weren't ever served.  He published the notice in the "Nevada Legal News" some daily publication that I've never heard of. 

I'll report back Monday what happens next!


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## Patri (Jul 24, 2008)

Man, this is getting good.


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## dmharris (Jul 24, 2008)

Patri said:


> Man, this is getting good.


 
Yeah, I was thinking this could be an episode of some law TV show.


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## pianodinosaur (Jul 24, 2008)

*Citizens Against Lawsuit Abuse*

You may consider looking up Citizens Against Lawsuit Abuse.  A friend of mine is a podiatrist whose office manager was recently murdered while in her office.  It turns out that her ex-husband had hired a hit man to do the job.  There is good reason to believe that the ex-husband and her son were both in on the crime.  Now they are suing the my friend under the complaint that she filed to provide adequate security in her office.  

Another friend of mine just returned from Guatemala after spending a week doing charity medical work.  Numerous people have asked why he didn't do charity work here at home.  Frivilous lawsuits have put an end to that a long time ago.  I have friends who are being sued because they took time off to help Katrina victims. A 21 year old pregnant IV drug abusing illegal alien showed up in our local ER with abruptio placenta and DIC.  Numerous people dropped everything to help her and all they go in return was a lawsuit.  

Another friend of mine owns a business and rents the building.  Some gang members got into a disupte after midnight and they shot each other infront of the building.  Now the families of the gang bangers have filed a suit against my friend because he failed to provide adequate security.


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## mepiccolo (Jul 26, 2008)

I'm really glad you're getting a re-hearing.  I'm hoping the Judge gives you time to show all the proof that you have that the plaintiff is slime, just a warning that he may not.  He may make you stick to only the facts of the plaintiff's complaint for return of his security deposit $ and not want to bother with the proof that you have that the slimy plaintiff tried to get a backhanded judgment against you.  In order to serve by publication you normally have to show due diligence that you made several attempts to find the new address of the defendants to serve them personally and only after reasonable exhaustive measures with no success does a judge normally allow service by publication, so it's a little troubling that the plaintiff got the judge to okay the service by publication.  Most importantly, be sure you are prepared to defend yourselves on the main case first (photos of damage plaintiff caused, receipts for repair work, photos showing home before plaintiff rented it, etc.), and then if allowed bring all the proof you have that the defendant has been acting underhanded.  Why did he wait so long to sue?  Perhaps he was hoping you would think the time had passed and you were going to get rid of all your evidence of the damage.  I do believe he was using his knowledge as an attorney to get the judgment against you without your knowledge so you would run out of time to fight it.  Once the case is over turn over everything you have to the State Bar where that attorney practices.  Even if he does not end up getting in trouble, there will be a record there that someone complained about his unethical practices.  Good luck dealing with this.  Boy, sure makes you think twice about ever renting to a lawyer, doesn't it!  There not all bad like this, though you sure sound like you got stuck dealing with a schmuck!


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## Icarus (Jul 26, 2008)

You've piqued my interest. Keep posting.

I'm surprised you never sued the bastard or tried to get back the thousands you spent repairing the place after the trashing he did when he was a tenant.

-David


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## Jennie (Jul 26, 2008)

Re: Karen's problem, it is a simple matter to have the judgment set aside if the Judge has reason to believe that you were not properly served. You apparently have more than enough proof of that. The fact that you have shown up on multiple occasions to defend against the allegations will also be a strong point in your favor. 

You might want to try talking to the Court Clerk before the hearing, and ask for the name of a local attorney who has experience defending against these types of cases. If for some reason things do not appear to be going your way during the hearing, you could ask for a 24 hour adjournment of the case to consult with an attorney. 

Have you checked with the Bar Association in the jurisdiction where creepo is licensed? You should see if there are any complaints against him, and if any warnings or suspensions have occurred. He sounds like a mentally unbalanced individual. People like that usually receive complaints and warnings. 

Good luck. Bravo for pursuing it.


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## dmharris (Jul 26, 2008)

Man, you Tuggers with legal knowledge are awesome!  Just out of curiousity, how much was the security deposit that he's upset about?


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## Karen G (Jul 26, 2008)

mepiccolo said:


> Boy, sure makes you think twice about ever renting to a lawyer, doesn't it!  There not all bad like this, though you sure sound like you got stuck dealing with a schmuck!


Funny you mention that.  We've joked that people should never rent to lawyers.  They aren't really a "protected class" that you could be charged with discrimination against such as a race, religion, age, etc.

As to some of the other questions people have posted, the amount of the security deposit is $2500.  We're now out about $3300 over that amount which covers all the repairs, property manager's and our legal fees, and the cost of the plane tickets to fly down for the other small claims court case where he didn't show up.

It is clear to us that the guy didn't want us to know about this new small claims suit.   After not showing up for the one last year, he filed this new one about a month after it.  But, according to the court's instructions on filing a small claims matter, plaintiff has to send a demand letter and show that it was sent certified mail, return receipt.  You're also supposed to show a copy of the actual envelope showing it was "refused or returned" and a copy of the return receipt showing it was signed for.

On this new case he had provided the court a copy of the first demand letter for the case that was dismissed and a copy of a bogus envelope with the postage printed on his office postage meter but no official post office stampings or cancellation marks and no copy of the return receipt post card that a recipient should have signed. 

He faxed the judge a request to publish saying he was unable to serve the papers.  His process server tried twice--he went to our old address one day, no one was home, left his card, new owner called, he came back the next day, she told him we'd moved to Nevada. End of any attempt to serve.  (All this was in the copies of documents we got from the court.)

We definitely will be contacting the Nevada state board and filing a small claims case against the guy when tomorrow's proceedings are done.


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## Liz Wolf-Spada (Jul 26, 2008)

Have you also considered lodging a complaint with the bar association of whatever state you (or rather he) is in?
Liz


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## Karen G (Jul 26, 2008)

Liz Wolf-Spada said:


> Have you also considered lodging a complaint with the bar association of whatever state you (or rather he) is in?
> Liz


Absolutely!


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## dmharris (Jul 26, 2008)

Karen,

Best of luck in court and I'll be praying that good wins over evil!


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## Karen G (Jul 26, 2008)

dmharris said:


> Karen,
> 
> Best of luck in court and I'll be praying that good wins over evil!



Thanks so much--I really appreciate that.


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## Karen G (Jul 28, 2008)

*Went to court today*

We went to the small claims court today and were surprised that the tenant/attorney actually showed up.  This was our first time to actually see and speak with him since our property manager always dealt with him and his wife. He was the egotistical @$$**** we thought him to be!

The judge let me show  & tell about evidence that the tenant had not followed the rules about filing this latest small claims case and that he had already sued us last year for the same thing.  The judge said he would take some time and look back at the records for the case last year.  

Other cases were heard and then the judge called us back up to the desks. In the meantime, while my husband had stepped out of the courtroom to go to the restroom, the tenant approached him in the lobby and said if we would both agree to "walk away" from this issue and the notice on his credit report (amount he owed us beyond what the security deposit covered on the repairs was turned over to a collection agency) was removed, we could be done with all this. If we didn't agree, he planned to sue us in District Court and it would cost us a lot more money.

My husband came back inside and told me this and I went outside and talked with the guy, too.  He said he was just interested in getting this "mark" off his credit report and I said if he paid us the $1200 we'd agree to that.  He said no way would he pay us anything.  He also said we couldn't sue him in small claims court because we should have counter-sued on last year's case & we didn't.  He also said something about us not being experienced landlords and not knowing how things worked. We actually have had three other rental properties besides our current residence that was rented to that tenant and two others after him. Over the last 18 years we've dealt with probably 12-15 tenants in rental/lease situations.

When we were back in court and the judge looked over the records of the claim last summer, he said it had been dismissed "with prejudice" meaning the tenant couldn't sue us again for the same thing. Therefore, he dismissed this current case and, we assume, the judgement that went with it.  We are to come back in 2-3 days to get copies of the ruling in this case.

I asked the judge, since the prior case was dismissed "with prejudice" toward the plaintiff, did that preclude us from bringing another small claims case against the tenant for the money he owes us.  I told the judge the tenant had threatened us with a lawsuit in district court if we didn't walk away from this one.  The judge said if we do bring about a new small claims case, the tenant will defend it with the idea that we should have filed a counterclaim when we first were sued.  (We consulted a local attorney about doing that very thing, and she said it was best to just answer the first claim and then do a separate countersuit--bad advice we see now.)

I told the judge that this is the third time this matter has come before a court and we've never been allowed to give our side of the story. The first time it was filed in the wrong jurisdiction & thrown out; the second time plaintiff didn't show up and it was dismissed without us being allowed to speak; and this time it was dismissed because the second time it had been dismissed.  The tenant started to bring up some issues like the handle of the microwave had broken off and we replaced the whole microwave & we had the whole house repainted for "normal wear & tear." The judge stopped him from going any further and we weren't allowed to respond.

We didn't have a chance to respond that we tried to find a replacement door for the microwave & it wasn't available anymore so we had to get a whole new one.  We didn't get to say that the painting estimate was for $1900 and $300 of that was judged to be normal wear and tear and we were asking for just $1600 from him for painting, not the whole $1900.  We also didn't get to say that in the past 18 years of renting properties, none of our other 12-15 tenants broke the handle off a microwave, broke cabinet drawers, tore cabinet doors off, left chocolate syrup dripping down the inside of the refrigerator along with other assorted molding liquids, broke the chandelier and left it sitting in the corner of garage, left paint stains and other unknown substance stains on the carpet in every room, left the oven in despicable condition & it's a self-cleaning oven that they never bothered to clean in two years; let the water softener run out of salt so that all kinds of deposits were inside the dishwasher; knocked a chunk off the stucco fireplace hearth, nailed holes all across the front of the stucco mantle, killed part of the grass on the front lawn by leaving big objects on the grass long enough to kill it, left all kinds of trash in and around the house including a 200 lb. clay pot, left big gouge marks on the bedroom wall, left several marks on the hallway that looked like maybe they were doing a height chart on how much their kids had grown in two years, did not return the keys or garage door openers, did not show up for the walk through at the end of the lease after we had flown down from Seattle to be here for it, told the property manager he couldn't have the carpets cleaned because the power had been turned off & he's the one who turned it off in violation of the lease! 

After we get the copies back of today's proceedings, we'll file our own small claims case and see what happens.  We'll also file a report with the state bar association about the irregular way he filed this case today.

This is still MADDENING!!!


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## AwayWeGo (Jul 28, 2008)

*Property Management Woes.  (How Much Justice Can You Afford?)*

The Chief Of Staff knows somebody who rented out his nice suburban home while serving out of the country on a foreign service assignment.  While 1 tenant was in the house for only eight -- 8 -- months total, the tenant's cat peed on every rug & carpet in the whole house.  Upon moving out, the tenant threatened to sue if the landlord withheld any of the tenant's security deposit.  Unfair as that was, the landlord refunded the full deposit rather than hassle with such a contentious ex-tenant. 

In the situation you describe, I might have been inclined to bargain with the guy over that $1*,*200.  Clearly he has the means & the inclination to lawyer-whip you over any & all unfinished business & unresolved issues pertaining to these cases.  I might have said, "Tell you what.  I'll settle for $600 cash & we'll both sign comprehensive release documents covering any and all issues between us for all events & all claims & all transactions from Day One up till the day we sign the release documents.  How does that grab you?" 

If he said OK, I'd get my lawyer to draw up comprehensive release documents to be signed & notarized & witnessed & recorded down at the county right along with the deed to the property, just in case the guy later tried recording any kind of lien.   

Can't be too careful. 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


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## taffy19 (Jul 28, 2008)

Karen, I still hope you have a valid claim against him. He made sure you didn't get served. He is a crooked attorney and was a bad tenanct too.  Good luck!


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## Karen G (Jul 28, 2008)

AwayWeGo said:


> In the situation you describe, I might have been inclined to bargain with the guy over that $1*,*200.


We were willing to accept $1200 as he now has cost us over $3300 with the added expenses he caused us with the other two lawsuits.  He said he wouldn't pay us anything.


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## Rose Pink (Jul 28, 2008)

AwayWeGo said:


> *(How Much Justice Can You Afford?)*
> 
> -- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


 
Alan, I understand and can appreciate your point but I hope Karen has the financial means to stand up to this bully.  We lose more than money when we let them intimidate us.  It is type of terrorism in my opinion.  It seems to me that this man does it for sport as much as for anything else.  He does it because he can.  He needs to be stopped--or at least slowed down.

Karen, I am happy to see you are reporting him to the state bar.  I hope that gets his attention.


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## Bill4728 (Jul 28, 2008)

Karen 

I know this is very maddening for you.

Thank the stars you were able to resolve this so fast!! 

I wouldn't have been surprized if you had told us that this wasn't going to be heard for several weeks if not months. 

Good luck!


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## AwayWeGo (Jul 28, 2008)

*Legal Blackmail Ends With A Signed Comprehensive Release.*




Karen G said:


> We were willing to accept $1200 as he now has cost us over $3300 with the added expenses he caused us with the other two lawsuits.  He said he wouldn't pay us anything.


The vibe I'm getting off that lawyer ex-tenant is bad news. 

Not saying he's right or you're wrong -- only that you might be money ahead by cutting your losses, if -- _if_ -- he's willing to sign papers making it official that it's over & finished & done & permanently case closed.  

That's what I meant by _How Much Justice Can You Afford ?_ 

I hate seeing the guy get over on you.  I'd hate it more if he lawyer-whips you into even worse future trouble & unhappiness. 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


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## pjrose (Jul 28, 2008)

Karen G said:


> After we get the copies back of today's proceedings, we'll file our own small claims case and see what happens.  We'll also file a report with the state bar association about the irregular way he filed this case today.



Good for you.



AwayWeGo said:


> I might have been inclined to bargain with the guy over that $1,200.  Clearly he has the means & the inclination to lawyer-whip you over any & all unfinished business & unresolved issues pertaining to these cases.  I might have said, "Tell you what.  I'll settle for $600 cash & we'll both sign comprehensive release documents covering any and all issues between us for all events & all claims & all transactions from Day One up till the day we sign the release documents.  How does that grab you?"
> 
> If he said OK, I'd get my lawyer to draw up comprehensive release documents to be signed & notarized & witnessed & recorded down at the county right along with the deed to the property, just in case the guy later tried recording any kind of lien.



Karen's planned strategy will likely result in more back-and-forth, while yours might result in being done with it.  

There are definite advantages to being done with it - probably the most important is to get the stress over with.  However, I'm  skeptical if that would really get the guy off Karen's back.  He's such a jerk that any agreement on her part may be a sign of weakness, and he'll just keep coming back even with the documents you suggested.  

I don't know which way I'd go, but Alan's remark here is wise.



AwayWeGo said:


> I hate seeing the guy get over on you.  I'd hate it more if he lawyer-whips you into even worse future trouble & unhappiness.


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## pianodinosaur (Jul 28, 2008)

Under the British system of torts, the scumbag plaintiff who gave you all this grief would have to pay all the court costs and reimburse your attorney. This discourages frivilous law sutis in England. Unfortunately, the American Bar Association has argued to the American people that the British system discriminates against the poor and as a result the American legal system is more like entering the lottery.  The American legal system is therefore rigged against honest, hardworking people. It has given birth to numerous professional plaintiffs. 

Karen, if you are a landlord, you are assumed to be a greedy, corrupt, abuser of the the poor until proven otherwise according to the American legal system.  I am glad that the sumbag lost his suit. However, it may cost you more money and aggravation than it is worth to pursue this matter any further.  Remember, we have the best justice in America that money can buy.


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## Emily (Jul 28, 2008)

Karen - I know you are frustrated - but at the end of this day your the winner.

The judge dismissed the case and judgment against you and the egotistical lawyer still has marred credit.

You may have a case - some hope is better than none and if the facts are listed correctly, you have the basis for a complaint with the bar association.

Today was a good start . .    you did good


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## mepiccolo (Jul 28, 2008)

I'm not sure what the jurisdictional limit for small claims court is in Nevada but I believe here in California it is $7,500.00.  By everything that you listed it seems to me like the damages to your home would have exceeded that.  A very important thing to consider:  If you file in small claims you represent yourself and cannot have a lawyer represent you (I believe this is true nationwide).  You are suing a lawyer so you are already at a disadvantage.  Especially if the rental contract he signed called for attorney's fees to the prevailing party I would certainly hire a lawyer to represent me against him rather than file a small claims lawsuit.  All the evidence points to him being the irresponsible scummy lowlife pig and your only mistake was renting to him.  It sounds to me like you would prevail.  At the least consult with a lawyer who specializes in landlord-tenant law (specifically representing landlords) and really go after the guy.  While it may cost you money up front I believe you would end up with potentially more $$ in your pocket than if you simply did a small claims action.  I also say this because a losing defendant can appeal a small claims judgment to the higher court.  So even if you win in small claims, being that he is a lawyer, it sounds to me like he's certainly the kind of defendant who would proceed to appeal, then you'd be dealing with the higher court and all kinds of court rules and obligations that would almost make it impossible for you to proceed without hiring a lawyer to represent you if he does appeal the small claims ruling if you win.


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## Karen G (Jul 29, 2008)

mepiccolo said:


> So even if you win in small claims, being that he is a lawyer, it sounds to me like he's certainly the kind of defendant who would proceed to appeal, then you'd be dealing with the higher court and all kinds of court rules and obligations that would almost make it impossible for you to proceed without hiring a lawyer to represent you if he does appeal the small claims ruling if you win.


We hadn't really thought of that possibility--even if we won a small claims case against him and got a judgement, he would appeal for sure just to cause us grief.


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## e.bram (Jul 29, 2008)

If you look back at my post you will see I told what the judge did.


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## UWSurfer (Jul 29, 2008)

There's always Judge Judy.   He sounds just egotistical to appear there and so long as your ducks are in a row and you can keep your cool, you'd likely win and show him to an audience of millions.


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## AwayWeGo (Jul 29, 2008)

*Even When You Win, You Lose.*




Karen G said:


> We hadn't really thought of that possibility--even if we won a small claims case against him and got a judgement, he would appeal for sure just to cause us grief.


Not only that, if you got a judgment that stood up on appeal, then after that you'd have to figure out some way of collecting on that judgment.  It's not automatic.  

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


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## Karen G (Jul 29, 2008)

UWSurfer said:


> There's always Judge Judy.   He sounds just egotistical to appear there and so long as your ducks are in a row and you can keep your cool, you'd likely win and show him to an audience of millions.


 That would be fun!


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## pjrose (Jul 29, 2008)

UWSurfer said:


> There's always Judge Judy.   He sounds just egotistical to appear there and so long as your ducks are in a row and you can keep your cool, you'd likely win and show him to an audience of millions.





Karen G said:


> That would be fun!



What a great idea!!!


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## Icarus (Jul 29, 2008)

mepiccolo said:


> You are suing a lawyer so you are already at a disadvantage.



That's not how small claims court works. There is no advantage to being an attorney in small claims court, which is the entire idea of having a small claims court in the first place.

It also works differently as far as the ability to appeal a small claims court judgment, depending on the jurisdiction. Every state is different, even courts within a state can be different. You have to look up the rules in your state and your county.

Years ago, when I sued a car dealer in small claims court in NYC, they were required to be represented by an attorney since they were a corporation. Either party could elect to have a judge hear the case, and the judgment could be appealed only in that case. If both parties agreed to have it heard by an adjudicator instead, the decision could not be appealed by either party. 

-David


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## dmharris (Jul 29, 2008)

I think one telling thing stood out in what the "lawyer" said to you . . . he wants his credit record cleaned.  He must want to buy something with a loan and can't get the loan in this tight lending market because of his record.  You can look up other's credit records somehow, so you might find something to leverage in negotiations with him.


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## pjrose (Jul 29, 2008)

It'd be great to have this guy off your back - but he doesn't DESERVE to have his credit record cleaned!  Correcting an inaccuracy is one thing, but that doesn't seem to be the case here.


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## dmharris (Jul 29, 2008)

pjrose said:


> It'd be great to have this guy off your back - but he doesn't DESERVE to have his credit record cleaned! Correcting an inaccuracy is one thing, but that doesn't seem to be the case here.


 

True, he doesn't deserve it, but let's remember, we reap what we sow.  And if clearing his credit record is what it takes to get him to disappear, then it's up to Karen to decide what to do and what he has to do to make amends (he should not get off scott-free).  Sometimes I like a good fight but other times I want to just be done with it.


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## e.bram (Jul 29, 2008)

With Judge Judy nobody loses, the show does the paying.(we got asked once)


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## pjrose (Jul 29, 2008)

dmharris said:


> True, he doesn't deserve it, but let's remember, we reap what we sow.  And if clearing his credit record is what it takes to get him to disappear, then it's up to Karen to decide what to do and what he has to do to make amends (he should not get off scott-free).  Sometimes I like a good fight but other times I want to just be done with it.



You're right - pick your battles and all that.  It's like trying to argue with toddlers or teenagers (who are more or less the same).


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## Karen G (Aug 23, 2008)

*The rest of the story*

In case anyone is interested, here's what happened:
When the judge at the re-hearing dismissed the second small claims case & the illegal judgement with it, we asked the judge if we could now sue the lawyer/tenant for the money he has caused us to pay. The judge said it was too late--we should have counter-sued the first time.

We consulted with a real estate attorney & he concurred with the judge. He did say we might want to file a complaint with Nevada State Bar Association, which we did.  At least that consultation was free. 

We received a letter from the State Bar that read like a form letter someone had stored in their computer--sounded like they didn't even read or understand our complaint about the unethical way the lawyer tried to circumvent the small claims court rules to get the illegal judgement.  The letter said that since the bar association complaint department wasn't a "legal services agency" and couldn't help us with our case (what case?), we should just talk with the lawyer or file appropriate pleadings with the court. 

So, I guess that's the end of it.  At least the tenant/lawyer still has the mark against his credit & we got the judgement thrown out.  If he does sue us in district court (though the amount is really too small for district court) we would countersue him then.


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## pjrose (Aug 23, 2008)

Frustrating, annoying, etc.  I'm sure you'll still keep everything in case the jerk resurfaces.

The form letter you got that looked like nobody had a clue what your complaint was, reminds me of a complaint I filed many years ago.  I had applied for a job in a male-dominated field, and was told I was "unsuited."  I decided to file an Equal Opportunity Employment complaint.  Filled out tons of paperwork, interviews, etc.  After a YEAR I finally got a form letter from Equal Opportunity - basically I had 3 options.  1. Ask them to drop the case and admit that there was no discrimination, 2. Ask them to drop the case because I decided not to pursue it, and 3. Ask them to investigate.  When I got to option 3, which is what I thought they had been doing all along, I opted for #2 and tossed it.  

Bureaucracy is supposed to be efficient, but sometimes....AAARRRGHHHHH!


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