# Enforcing the 'No Pet Policy' at MVC locations - petition



## LUVourMarriotts (May 21, 2021)

Hello all.  The topic of pets at MVC resorts has been pretty popular lately, especially on the different Facebook owner forums.  If you are unhappy with the increase in the number of owners/guests that are using Marriott's in-action to bring their pets, please consider signing this new petition that is out there.  It was written by a fellow owner that has experience dealing with the ADA laws in several settings.  Once there are several signatures, the MVC executive office will be informed of this petition.









						Sign the Petition
					

Enforcement of the 'No Pet Policy' at Marriott Vacation Club resorts




					chng.it


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## Sandy VDH (May 21, 2021)

The problem is the way the ADA law is written.  All you can do is ask if the pet performs a service.  You can't ask what service the animal does or what Disability you have.


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## Mlvnsmly (May 21, 2021)

You CAN ask what service the animal is trained to perform.  You can also have the animal removed if it does not adhere to accepted service animal standards.


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## tschwa2 (May 21, 2021)

Sandy VDH said:


> The problem is the way the ADA law is written.  All you can do is ask if the pet performs a service.  You can't ask what service the animal does or what Disability you have.


You can ask what service the dog is trained to do.  The two questions are:
 (1) is the dog a service animal required because of a disability, and (2) what work or task has the dog been trained to perform.

If it is obvious what the animal does -like a guide dog for the blind, you shouldn't ask number 2.


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## TravelTime (May 21, 2021)

I wish pets were allowed at timeshare resorts. I only get angry because people abuse the policies not because I disagree with bringing a pet. A resort can change a lot to cover cleaning fees and charge for damage so I do not see why pets should be banned. We are going to a hotel for a week in July. We are paying over $500 extra to bring our three small dogs. It seems expensive but I am grateful we can bring them.


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## GetawaysRus (May 21, 2021)

We had a major pet problem during a recent MVC stay. 2 nearby units had barking dogs (as well as noisy, pot- smoking humans). We contacted security several times. When there was no change after a few nights, we ultimately requested and were granted a change in our unit. Moving was a hassle, but fortunately the building we were moved to was quiet and didn't smell of marijuana.

(I have absolutely no problem with true service animals. They tend to be extremely well-behaved.)

This is the first time this has happened since we bought our first timeshare in 2004.

We complained (politely) to management. In compensation, the resort granted us a 2BR week good for one year that went into our Interval account. It was a low season week, but I was able to make an acceptable no-fee future exchange with it.

So be aware that, if barking dogs, excessive noise, or pot smokers are a problem, some form of compensation might be offered.


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## normab (May 21, 2021)

I signed it.  So sick of fake service dogs. Big or small unruly dogs who are not trained.  And I’ve seen owners letting them do their business on the activity lawns. Yuck.

I was going to send the link to my sister what also owns MVCI,  But then I remembered...she is guilty of the fake service dog thing.  Ugh.


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## Fried_shrimp (May 21, 2021)

TravelTime said:


> I wish pets were allowed at timeshare resorts. I only get angry because people abuse the policies not because I disagree with bringing a pet. A resort can change a lot to cover cleaning fees and charge for damage so I do not see why pets should be banned. We are going to a hotel for a week in July. We are paying over $500 extra to bring our three small dogs. It seems expensive but I am grateful we can bring them.



I on the other hand am happy that pets are not allowed. I don't want to hear some dog yapping or have some unleashed dog coming after me and my family while walking around the resort. Pets need to stay home.


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## dioxide45 (May 21, 2021)

tschwa2 said:


> You can ask what service the dog is trained to do.  The two questions are:
> (1) is the dog a service animal required because of a disability, and (2) what work or task has the dog been trained to perform.
> 
> If it is obvious what the animal does -like a guide dog for the blind, you shouldn't ask number 2.


The problem is resorts either aren't asking or are accepting "emotional support" as an answer to #2.


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## dioxide45 (May 21, 2021)

Here we go again. Round and round we go


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## tschwa2 (May 21, 2021)

dioxide45 said:


> The problem is resorts either aren't asking or are accepting "emotional support" as an answer to #2.


or people have been coached and know what lies to tell for number 1 and number 2.


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## geist1223 (May 21, 2021)

Patti has decided if there is a Barking "Service Animal" to call 911. After all if it is a trained "Service Animal" it would not be Barking unless there was an Emergency.

We have 3 pets - 1 dog that we miss terribly when we travel and 2 cats. We are against pets at timeshares.


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## californiagirl (May 21, 2021)

I signed the petition.  We have a dog we love but I agree that timeshares are no place for a pet.  Especially any who are poorly behaved.


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## bazzap (May 22, 2021)

Signed and shared


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## Dean (May 22, 2021)

dioxide45 said:


> Here we go again. Round and round we go


If it gets talked about enough in a somewhat public forum eventually maybe someone who can act will do so.  I think the difference here is that this could be more than just TUG banter if shared with MVC directly.


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## vail (May 22, 2021)

Service dogs that bark could be saving someone's life.
On Hilton Head many years ago we saw a foreman supervising heavy machinery doing landscaping.
With him was a medium size dog at best that followed him watched him like  a hawk.
He had lost his hearing from all the heavy equipment noise, or at least that is what we were told.

If he was faced the wrong way or could not hear the  backing up noise that trucks make the dog would get in his line of sight and start barking.
He was able to continue working because of his barking little friend, and no one needed to call 911.

If you looked at that dog, there is no way to tell it was a service animal.
They come in all shapes and sizes and breeds.
That dog goes with him everywhere, even when he travels on his hard earned vacations.

So when he might be walking through a Marriott and someone is in a car backing up and he does not hear it, and the dog starts to bark, you should know you do not need to call 911.


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## RJW (May 22, 2021)

GetawaysRus said:


> We had a major pet problem during a recent MVC stay. 2 nearby units had barking dogs (as well as noisy, pot- smoking humans). We contacted security several times. When there was no change after a few nights, we ultimately requested and were granted a change in our unit. Moving was a hassle, but fortunately the building we were moved to was quiet and didn't smell of marijuana.
> 
> (I have absolutely no problem with true service animals. They tend to be extremely well-behaved.)
> 
> ...


Doesn't pot smoking violate the no-smoking rule?  Can't management enforce that?


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## controller1 (May 22, 2021)

LUVourMarriotts said:


> Hello all.  The topic of pets at MVC resorts has been pretty popular lately, especially on the different Facebook owner forums.  If you are unhappy with the increase in the number of owners/guests that are using Marriott's in-action to bring their pets, please consider signing this new petition that is out there.  It was written by a fellow owner that has experience dealing with the ADA laws in several settings.  Once there are several signatures, the MVC executive office will be informed of this petition.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



There are currently 270 signatures on the petition.


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## dougp26364 (May 22, 2021)

We have dogs and, we take them to the one timeshare we own that allows dogs.

However, I absolutely HATE dog owners who have unruly, untrained dogs and/or owners who just walk off and leave them unattended in the units. I also have a problem with owners who turn their dogs off leash despite the resort rule that dogs must remain on leash and under control at all times. These are the dog owners that turn people off allowing dogs anywhere other than at home. If all dog owners trained their dogs and followed the rules, it would be mostly a non-issue. Much like when parents have well behaved children vs parents who just let the children run wild and do as they please. 

Because of this, I completely understand the no dog rule at Marriott and most timeshare resorts. While we love traveling with our dogs, we’d never dream of bringing them someplace where they are not welcome and I just don’t understand people who do. 

I wish signing a petition would bring change. It disturbs me when a resort has a rule but doesn’t enforce the rule. John Madden once said, “You’ll have to live with tomorrow what you put up with today.” Allowing this issue to get a foot hold will make it more difficult to restrict later.

I think rather than a petition, if enough guests wrote Marriott individually, and maybe if enough of them indicated the reason for not purchasing points or additional points was that MVC wasn’t enforcing the no pet policy, that might be more effective. 

Another, more effective, method would be to put pressure on each individual HOA. Perhaps a grass roots effort to unseat board members who refuse to pressure MVC to enforce their own rules. If there’s enough of an effort made to u seat MVC picked board members, perhaps they’d take notice. Probably not but I’d like to think it’d at least be as effective as a petition that’s more likely to get lip service than real action. 

Perhaps all three, if applied simultaneously, would gain more traction. Think of it as a three prong pitch fork. Petition, refusal to buy more and pressure on HOA board members. 

To many times I’ve witnessed complaints falling of deaf ears. So much so that I rarely complain anymore. Instead I’ve replaced it with the, “This is why I won’t do business with your company in The future.” To date the list is small and includes mostly fast food restaurants and a few retail businesses. For me it’s a call/letter indicating I want nothing from them other than to let them know why I’m walking away. 

Of course, with timeshare, you can’t walk away, you can just refuse to buy more.

*** I’d leave the word “boycott” off the table. It’s over used and one of those words I think falls mostly on deaf ears unless it’s effective enough to force change. I haven’t seen businesses like Chic-Fil-a or Hobby Lobby change their position. Mostly because it wasn’t their customers who cried boycott to begin with but those who didn’t like them anyway. Boycott becomes just another word used by people who don’t do business with a company and want them and their customers to change to fit their ideals. The word has no effect unless it actually creates financial damage. Thus, just a mention in the after-presentation survey as the reason for not purchasing would be sufficient IF it happened enough for MVC to notice.


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## bazzap (May 22, 2021)

controller1 said:


> There are currently 270 signatures on the petition.


Well over 500 now.


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## GetawaysRus (May 22, 2021)

_Doesn't pot smoking violate the no-smoking rule?_ 
Yes, it does.

_Can't management enforce that?_
We thought so, but they didn't during our stay.


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## ilene13 (May 22, 2021)

Over 600 now!


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## Dean (May 22, 2021)

RJW said:


> Doesn't pot smoking violate the no-smoking rule?  Can't management enforce that?


It is a violation for pets to smoke Marijuana at the resorts.  They should be evicted for doing so.


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## jme (May 22, 2021)

Dean said:


> It is a violation for pets to smoke Marijuana at the resorts.  They should be evicted for doing so.



I heard they don't inhale......


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## Jrossi (May 22, 2021)

Signed... My son has asthma and severe allergies so we can tell right away if there has been an animal in the villa. This has become more common recently. Fortunately, Marriott has (so far) been able to move us to another villa when the issue arises.


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## dioxide45 (May 22, 2021)

GetawaysRus said:


> _Doesn't pot smoking violate the no-smoking rule?_
> Yes, it does.
> 
> _Can't management enforce that?_
> We thought so, but they didn't during our stay.


Smokeing in general, at least on the balconies is very hard to enforce. Especially if it is happening at night. They need to see the people doing it. Even when we reported the issue at Vistana Villages, we didn't know where or what villa it was coming from.


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## dioxide45 (May 22, 2021)

ilene13 said:


> Over 600 now!


There are almost 1,000 but less than 650 views in this thread. Does Change.org push these petitions out in the way that Facebook shows you stuff you want to see, or is it perhaps also being shared in Facebook groups?


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## Steve Fatula (May 22, 2021)

dioxide45 said:


> There are almost 1,000 but less than 650 views in this thread. Does Change.org push these petitions out in the way that Facebook shows you stuff you want to see, or is it perhaps also being shared in Facebook groups?



They (change.org) do promote them as things you "may be interested in" for example.


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## bazzap (May 23, 2021)

dioxide45 said:


> There are almost 1,000 but less than 650 views in this thread. Does Change.org push these petitions out in the way that Facebook shows you stuff you want to see, or is it perhaps also being shared in Facebook groups?


I have shared in all of the Europe and Asia MVC Owner fb groups I am an admin or member of and there are now well over 1,100 signed up.


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## Fried_shrimp (May 23, 2021)

GetawaysRus said:


> _Doesn't pot smoking violate the no-smoking rule?_
> Yes, it does.
> 
> _Can't management enforce that?_
> We thought so, but they didn't during our stay.



I would assume their no smoking ban is for indoors, not on the balcony which is probably where the pot smoking took place.


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## jmhpsu93 (May 23, 2021)

Fried_shrimp said:


> I would assume their no smoking ban is for indoors, not on the balcony which is probably where the pot smoking took place.


For Marriott, there is a ban on outdoor smoking as well, except for a few designated areas on the property.  This applies to the Marriott hotel brands as well.


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## Fried_shrimp (May 23, 2021)

jmhpsu93 said:


> For Marriott, there is a ban on outdoor smoking as well, except for a few designated areas on the property.  This applies to the Marriott hotel brands as well.



Thanks for the heads up.


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## dioxide45 (May 23, 2021)

Fried_shrimp said:


> I would assume their no smoking ban is for indoors, not on the balcony which is probably where the pot smoking took place.


The no smoking in the villa also extends to the balcony.


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## Dean (May 23, 2021)

jmhpsu93 said:


> For Marriott, there is a ban on outdoor smoking as well, except for a few designated areas on the property.  This applies to the Marriott hotel brands as well.


More specifically it's non smoking for the entire property except designated ares.


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## LUVourMarriotts (May 23, 2021)

dioxide45 said:


> There are almost 1,000 but less than 650 views in this thread. Does Change.org push these petitions out in the way that Facebook shows you stuff you want to see, or is it perhaps also being shared in Facebook groups?


The link has been shared on several FB owner groups by multiple people. Then, once it hits 1000, it becomes part of the ‘issues you might be interested in’ advertising by change dot org.


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## bazzap (May 23, 2021)

dioxide45 said:


> The no smoking in the villa also extends to the balcony.


I wish that were true for all MVC resorts.
Whilst there is far less of a problem in Europe and Asia with people bringing pets, they do allow smoking on some balconies at some resorts sadly.


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## alchook (May 23, 2021)

The ADA states that you may ask what the service animal is trained to do. But it doesn't seem to say that the owner is required to answer. And, quite honestly, I can see how answering that question could be a violation of privacy.


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## Pompey Family (May 23, 2021)

tschwa2 said:


> You can ask what service the dog is trained to do.  The two questions are:
> (1) is the dog a service animal required because of a disability, and (2) what work or task has the dog been trained to perform.



I would not be comfortable explaining what work or tasks my service dog has been trained to perform. It's intrusive and highlights my disability. I'm constantly being asked by people what my dog is for and what she does, I know people are simply being friendly and inquisitive but for me it's personal and intrusive. Fortunately I carry an ID card that has a photo of my dog and confirms her status as an accredited service dog. Production of this card should be all that's required to satisfy any queries about her status however I acknowledge that such identification cards are not standard in the US.


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## tschwa2 (May 23, 2021)

Pompey Family said:


> I would not be comfortable explaining what work or tasks my service dog has been trained to perform. It's intrusive and highlights my disability. I'm constantly being asked by people what my dog is for and what she does, I know people are simply being friendly and inquisitive but for me it's personal and intrusive. Fortunately I carry an ID card that has a photo of my dog and confirms her status as an accredited service dog. Production of this card should be all that's required to satisfy any queries about her status however I acknowledge that such identification cards are not standard in the US.


Unfortunately it doesn't matter if you are comfortable.  The US law allows them to ask what the dog is trained to do to assist in your disability.  There is no such thing as a federally recognized accreditation for service dogs and since no such recognized accreditation exists none is required. So it isn't that they aren't standard in the US, they just don't legally exist.   You may have an accreditation  through an  organization that has rigorous requirements but another organization might have none and just require that you send them a fee.  In the US, for every rigorous program that offers certification there are probably a dozen that just want you to send them money so you can travel with your pet without having to pay any additional cleaning fees or worry about if the resort is pet friendly.  One of the reasons that certification is not required by the law, is it was determined that programs that cost thousands of dollars may be out of reach for some disabled persons so a provision was allowed to allow the training to be done by the owner.  Also they didn't want to have to provide any money to perform any oversight on any certification process.

I would think that a generic, the animal has been trained to alert me if I am going to have a medical episode or problem should suffice.  I wouldn't think you would need to be so specific as, the dog has been trained to lick my face if my blood sugar drops below x.


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## wjappraise (May 23, 2021)

I think it’s ironic that the ADA is being used (abused) to permit individuals to travel with “emotional support animals” to non-animal resorts. But those with a disability such as asthma or pet allergies are now ignored and have to suffer. 

I wholeheartedly understand a service dog for a sight impaired individual but that’s where it should end. Or just let everyone travel with pets and charge an extra $100 a night for the privilege. Or $500 a night. Maybe our housekeeping fees would go down. 

As it is right now it’s a mess. Our last visit to Bonnet Creek had a dog fight in the lobby, dog feces in the grass out front, and dog urine in the elevator. All in one week there. 

So yes it’s time for a change.


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## alchook (May 23, 2021)

wjappraise said:


> I think it’s ironic that the ADA is being used (abused) to permit individuals to travel with “emotional support animals” to non-animal resorts. But those with a disability such as asthma or pet allergies are now ignored and have to suffer.



The ADA doesn't recognize emotional support animals.


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## wjappraise (May 23, 2021)

alchook said:


> The ADA doesn't recognize emotional support animals.



That’s why it’s being abused. Because ... yeah they do.


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## gln60 (May 23, 2021)

GetawaysRus said:


> We had a major pet problem during a recent MVC stay. 2 nearby units had barking dogs (as well as noisy, pot- smoking humans). We contacted security several times. When there was no change after a few nights, we ultimately requested and were granted a change in our unit. Moving was a hassle, but fortunately the building we were moved to was quiet and didn't smell of marijuana.
> 
> (I have absolutely no problem with true service animals. They tend to be extremely well-behaved.)
> 
> ...


would you mind sharing the name of the resort?


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## rthib (May 23, 2021)

wjappraise said:


> That’s why it’s being abused. Because ... yeah they do.


Nope. ADA covers service animals.

From the government


> *Are emotional support, therapy, comfort, or companion animals considered service animals under the ADA?
> A*. No.  These terms are used to describe animals that provide comfort just by being with a person.  Because they have not been trained to perform a specific job or task, they do not qualify as service animals under the ADA.  However, some State or local governments have laws that allow people to take emotional support animals into public places.  You may check with your State and local government agencies to find out about these laws.


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## RX8 (May 23, 2021)

Some people just do not give a $@?! what others think. I just witnessed a short time ago a male adult smoking in the pool area and he also allowed his child to urinate in the bushes behind the pool chairs.


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## Fried_shrimp (May 23, 2021)

RX8 said:


> Some people just do not give a $@?! what others think. I just witnessed a short time ago a male adult smoking in the pool area and he also allowed his child to urinate in the bushes behind the pool chairs.



Some high class folks right there.


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## Fasttr (May 23, 2021)

RX8 said:


> Some people just do not give a $@?! what others think. I just witnessed a short time ago a male adult smoking in the pool area and he also allowed his child to urinate in the bushes behind the pool chairs.


I’m sure his kid was merely making sure the cigarette butt was properly extinguished.


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## Dean (May 23, 2021)

wjappraise said:


> That’s why it’s being abused. Because ... yeah they do.


From ada.gov





> *Q3. Are emotional support, therapy, comfort, or companion animals considered service animals under the ADA?
> A*. No.  These terms are used to describe animals that provide comfort just by being with a person.  Because they have not been trained to perform a specific job or task, they do not qualify as service animals under the ADA.  However, some State or local governments have laws that allow people to take emotional support animals into public places.  You may check with your State and local government agencies to find out about these laws.


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## tahoe (May 23, 2021)

dioxide45 said:


> There are almost 1,000 but less than 650 views in this thread. Does Change.org push these petitions out in the way that Facebook shows you stuff you want to see, or is it perhaps also being shared in Facebook groups?


There was a long active discussion on this topic on the “Marriott Vacation Club Owners Connection” Facebook page.  The change.org link is posted there as well.


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## controller1 (May 23, 2021)

LUVourMarriotts said:


> The link has been shared on several FB owner groups by multiple people. Then, once it hits 1000, it becomes part of the ‘issues you might be interested in’ advertising by change dot org.



It has surpassed 1,000 and heading toward 1,500. Now at 1,303.


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## ahdah (May 23, 2021)

I am so happy to see the petition on FB.  I hope every Marriott owner will sign and post the petition.  It is time Marriott tried to do something.  I like dogs and my children have dogs, but they don't bring them on vacation, they pay for a kennel,  My husband had an allergy to dog dander, so I understand why only service dogs should be allowed.  I am not opposed to service animals, only pets.


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## davidvel (May 24, 2021)

ahdah said:


> I am so happy to see the petition on FB.  I hope every Marriott owner will sign and post the petition.  It is time Marriott tried to do something.  I like dogs and my children have dogs, but they don't bring them on vacation, they pay for a kennel,  My husband had an allergy to dog dander, so I understand why only service dogs should be allowed.  I am not opposed to service animals, only pets.


Do service dogs not shed dander?


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## Steve Fatula (May 24, 2021)

davidvel said:


> Do service dogs not shed dander?



They do, but if there's 95% less dogs at a resort, that's 95% less chance it will affect me. It ruins my vacation, I break out in hives all over and swell up. My feet have been concave out before, very painful. If the animal was known and a cleaning fee applied that allows for appropriate cleaning for animals, then, perhaps it wouldn't impact me.

That being said, I will take the pain, itching, and vacation ruin if indeed an animal was in the room that was necessary. I initially considered trying to dig out some pictures, but too gross.


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## BJRSanDiego (May 24, 2021)

All timeshares are allowed to ask the "two questions".  I don't think that they are doing that.   Also, a dog left in the room without the support person is not in accordance with the Federal policy.  Also a dog who barks or bites is not in accordance to the Federal policy and can be removed.  

I have been bit by a 6 month old out-of-control yippy little puppy at a Marriott.  I asked if the dog was a service animal or a support animal and was told that he licks my cheek when I get stressed.  This is a total "red flag".  Marriott needs to "step up to the plate" on this issue.  Maybe they'll "draw some fire" but THEY SHOULD!


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## jme (May 24, 2021)

I've signed and encourage others to do the same.
We've had too many negative experiences where people abuse the rules knowingly for their own self-interests. 
Many major hotels and timeshare properties have "No Pet" policies, and there's ABSOLUTELY no good reason not to have it.
Pets have no business being there. 
If someone wants a place to take pets, I encourage them to buy a beach house. They will discover in the process that there 
ARE consequences involved in allowing pets into their accommodations. 
THEY then have to use their own measures and expenses for cleaning, not to mention finding additional wear & tear, 
so allowing them the opportunity to do that will be self-explanatory.


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## klpca (May 24, 2021)

Not a Marriott specific experience, but we just returned home from Hyatt Highlands Inn in Carmel. We sat inside the beautiful restaurant on Saturday next to an older lady dining with "Bill", her Pomeranian, who barked throughout the meal. I have no idea why this was allowed. I honestly thought that animals were not allowed in an indoor restaurant by law. Bill didn't even have the fake vest.  FWIW, I love dogs and we take ours to outside restaurants all of the time, where she lays quietly under my husbands chair. We have had servers who didn't realize that we had a dog until we were leaving. She does not travel with us because it is not allowed.  I would sign the petition if I was still a Marriott owner. There is a reason that dogs are not allowed in the units and just because you can go online and get a fake certification to skirt the rules shouldn't change anything.


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## LUVourMarriotts (May 24, 2021)

klpca said:


> Not a Marriott specific experience, but we just returned home from Hyatt Highlands Inn in Carmel. We sat inside the beautiful restaurant on Saturday next to an older lady dining with "Bill", her Pomeranian, who barked throughout the meal. I have no idea why this was allowed. I honestly thought that animals were not allowed in an indoor restaurant by law. Bill didn't even have the fake vest.  FWIW, I love dogs and we take ours to outside restaurants all of the time, where she lays quietly under my husbands chair. We have had servers who didn't realize that we had a dog until we were leaving. She does not travel with us because it is not allowed.  I would sign the petition if I was still a Marriott owner. There is a reason that dogs are not allowed in the units and just because you can go online and get a fake certification to skirt the rules shouldn't change anything.


You can still sign, even if you are not an owner!


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## LUVourMarriotts (May 24, 2021)

davidvel said:


> Do service dogs not shed dander?


Of course. But, an owner/guest with a real service animal will most likely make the resort staff aware that they have a service animal with them. I have spoken with 2 GM’s and they both told me that they use a much more involved cleaning procedure when there was a dog in the unit.


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## jme (May 24, 2021)

klpca said:


> Not a Marriott specific experience, but we just returned home from Hyatt Highlands Inn in Carmel. We sat inside the beautiful restaurant on Saturday next to an older lady dining with "Bill", her Pomeranian, who barked throughout the meal. I have no idea why this was allowed. I honestly thought that animals were not allowed in an indoor restaurant by law. Bill didn't even have the fake vest.  FWIW, I love dogs and we take ours to outside restaurants all of the time, where she lays quietly under my husbands chair. We have had servers who didn't realize that we had a dog until we were leaving. She does not travel with us because it is not allowed.  I would sign the petition if I was still a Marriott owner. There is a reason that dogs are not allowed in the units and just because you can go online and get a fake certification to skirt the rules shouldn't change anything.



Katherine, 
It takes a truly fair and honest person like yourself to say what you did, and especially to write in siding with others who genuinely believe 
that this position is "the right thing to do", despite the fact that you love and enjoy your dear pet's company yourself. 

We have had dogs also, two Cairn terriers (and others), and loved them, but NEVER included them when we were "out".  
So I want to take this opportunity to thank you for honoring the rules and stating WHY it's fair for all to do that. 
I've always enjoyed your posts-----you've always expressed intelligent and fair-minded opinions, for which I am very grateful.


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## LUVourMarriotts (May 24, 2021)

Steve Fatula said:


> They do, but if there's 95% less dogs at a resort, that's 95% less chance it will affect me. It ruins my vacation, I break out in hives all over and swell up. My feet have been concave out before, very painful. If the animal was known and a cleaning fee applied that allows for appropriate cleaning for animals, then, perhaps it wouldn't impact me.
> 
> That being said, I will take the pain, itching, and vacation ruin if indeed an animal was in the room that was necessary. I initially considered trying to dig out some pictures, but too gross.


There have been a few people on FB groups report that they have very bad allergies as well. They said some resorts have a special request code to add to your reservation details that requests a villa/room that has never, knowingly, had a dog in it.

Here is another great reason to enforce the rules. The resort is at capacity. Nobody requested a ‘no pet ever room’. Guest X is given one of those rooms. Guest X also sneaks in their dog, Scruffy, into the room. No extra cleaning is done. That room should no longer be categorized as a ‘no pet ever room’, but the resort doesn’t know any better.


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## LUVourMarriotts (May 24, 2021)

To all those looking to sign:
The process is not really obvious, especially as the numbers of signatures get higher.  Here is some info about how to sign.

Enter your name, email and location, click the button to sign.
It asks you to donate $11.  (DO NOT DO THIS)  Just click the button to only SHARE the petition.
It asks you how you want to share.  You can either choose an option or click the 'Skip for now' link.
You are then asked to sign other petitions.  Just click the "show me news about the petition I am signing" link.
At this point, you are done.  If you don't get to this point, you have not signed.
I believe you will also get an email stating you have signed.
I'm guessing many folks never got here, because there are ~6000 views of the petition, but only ~1400 signatures.


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## davidvel (May 24, 2021)

Steve Fatula said:


> They do, but if there's 95% less dogs at a resort, that's 95% less chance it will affect me. It ruins my vacation, I break out in hives all over and swell up. My feet have been concave out before, very painful. If the animal was known and a cleaning fee applied that allows for appropriate cleaning for animals, then, perhaps it wouldn't impact me.
> 
> That being said, I will take the pain, itching, and vacation ruin if indeed an animal was in the room that was necessary. I initially considered trying to dig out some pictures, but too gross.


That makes sense if 95% of dogs are fakes, but still pretty difficult to enforce if not disclosing and sneaking in.


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## Superchief (May 24, 2021)

I spoke to the front desk staff at MCV and MSW during recent visits regarding this issue. They said their biggest problem is people 'sneaking' their pets into their villas. I think the staff is reluctant to challenge anyone regarding this issue once the pet is already onsite. I suggest that pet policies should be included in the pre-arrival communication and check-in, and it should be clearly stated that pets (except legitimate service animals) are prohibited from the facilities and offenders will immediately be evicted with no refund.

This will also help prevent those allergic to pets from being assigned a room occupied by a dog that the resort was unaware of.


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## Steve Fatula (May 24, 2021)

davidvel said:


> That makes sense if 95% of dogs are fakes, but still pretty difficult to enforce if not disclosing and sneaking in.



I agree it's difficult to enforce in all cases, but we see examples in this thread of cases where a pet is known (whether it was disclosed or not, dogs barking, etc.) and Marriott is doing nothing in those cases. That's exactly the type of case that can be handled. There should be a penalty for undisclosed cases. By having to declare pets, they can allow for cleaning, any animal fee, etc. If I complain about your dog barking next door, and there is no official registered animal there, that's a problem. Ignoring the issue is not helpful. The room needs cleaned for animals so the next owner is not hurt. 

A few years back, I almost never saw any pets in 20 years. Now, I see them more and more and in some cases, all they do is bark, all day long.


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## davidvel (May 24, 2021)

Steve Fatula said:


> I agree it's difficult to enforce in all cases, but we see examples in this thread of cases where a pet is known (whether it was disclosed or not, dogs barking, etc.) and Marriott is doing nothing in those cases. That's exactly the type of case that can be handled. There should be a penalty for undisclosed cases. By having to declare pets, they can allow for cleaning, any animal fee, etc. If I complain about your dog barking next door, and there is no official registered animal there, that's a problem. Ignoring the issue is not helpful. The room needs cleaned for animals so the next owner is not hurt.
> 
> A few years back, I almost never saw any pets in 20 years. Now, I see them more and more and in some cases, all they do is bark, all day long.


I agree there should be an across the board policy that there is a penalty to bring non-permitted (ie. ADA) animals into a unit, and that pet must be declared as such to avoid the penalty if found later (not sure of this complies with ADA, but something that would.)  This would help dissuade those that "sneak" pets in and have them on edge of being found out (if enforced.)


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## DisneyJen (May 24, 2021)

The ADA protects people like me who NEED their service animals to live a "normal" life.

When making reservations at a restaurant, hotel, resort or airline I always have it noted on my reservation. When we are in public and my dog is working he wears a vest identifying him as a service animal. When he is having his play/potty period when we aren't home he wear the vest as well.

He never leaves my side which means he isn't left in a hotel room.

If I don't respond to him when he alerts that I am going to or having an issue he will bark until my companion comes to make sure I am safe.

I'm sharing my story so people will understand how a true service animal acts.


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## dhstache (May 24, 2021)

MVC can adopt a policy similar to airlines where any pet has to be pre-registered.


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## Steve Fatula (May 24, 2021)

DisneyJen said:


> The ADA protects people like me who NEED their service animals to live a "normal" life.
> 
> When making reservations at a restaurant, hotel, resort or airline I always have it noted on my reservation. When we are in public and my dog is working he wears a vest identifying him as a service animal. When he is having his play/potty period when we aren't home he wear the vest as well.
> 
> ...



I don't think anyone here is against a true service animal, it's the fake ones we are suggesting need to be handled more effectively.


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## Pompey Family (May 25, 2021)

Superchief said:


> I suggest that pet policies should be included in the pre-arrival communication and check-in, and it should be clearly stated that pets (except legitimate service animals) are prohibited from the facilities and offenders will immediately be evicted with no refund.



My most recent pre-arrival e-mail from Playa Andaluza contained a prominent message that only service dogs were allowed on the premises not pets. This is the first time that I've seen it written on any communication so evidently people at the top are taking heed.


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## bazzap (May 25, 2021)

Pompey Family said:


> My most recent pre-arrival e-mail from Playa Andaluza contained a prominent message that only service dogs were allowed on the premises not pets. This is the first time that I've seen it written on any communication so evidently people at the top are taking heed.


It may just be that prior to this issue being in the headlines again none of us really noticed this, but the “no pets” message has been in the pre-arrivals email for many years. I haven’t checked all the way back, but it was certainly referenced in 2015.
At least this is true for Phuket Beach Club and Club Son Antem, with relevant extracts attached.


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## dougp26364 (May 25, 2021)

bazzap said:


> It may just be that prior to this issue being in the headlines again none of us really noticed this, but the “no pets” message has been in the pre-arrivals email for many years. I haven’t checked all the way back, but it was certainly referenced in 2015.
> At least this is true for Phuket Beach Club and Club Son Antem, with relevant extracts attached.
> 
> View attachment 35928View attachment 35929




The rule has been there since we became owners in 2001. The issue has been the lax enforcement of the rule and the Increase in the number of people who skirt the rule and how MVC hasn’t enforced its own rule.

Either you have a rule or you don’t. If you don’t enforce a rule, then it’s not a rule. MVC should either enforce the rule or remove it.


Several years ago I witnessed management at Ocean Pointe inform a guest, either the dog goes or you go (more politely of course, but that was the point). In the last five years I’ve seen several instances of “emotional support” dogs at the resort that were obviously not trained. Our dogs received their Canine Good Citizenship certificates from the AKC. those took 39 weeks of classes and passing a test to receive and were the stepping off point to become a certified service animal. I can spot an u trained dog pretty easily since going through those classes, and I can tell you I’ve only seen a couple of trained dogs that fit the bill of service animals, the rest, like our dogs, were pets.


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## windje2000 (May 25, 2021)

dougp26364 said:


> *Either you have a rule or you don’t. If you don’t enforce a rule, then it’s not a rule. MVC should either enforce the rule or remove it.*



Could not agree more.


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## tschwa2 (May 25, 2021)

dougp26364 said:


> The rule has been there since we became owners in 2001. The issue has been the lax enforcement of the rule and the Increase in the number of people who skirt the rule and how MVC hasn’t enforced its own rule.
> 
> Either you have a rule or you don’t. If you don’t enforce a rule, then it’s not a rule. MVC should either enforce the rule or remove it.


I think the problem is the law itself doesn't include any penalties for faking it or provide for any physical proof beyond the honor code.  On the other hand if a large business was accused of discriminating or harassing a person with a disability and a service dog the bad PR and the fines terrify most businesses  so they turn a blind eye on anyone who even remotely implies (by bringing their dog when they are told only service animals are allowed) that the dog is a service animal.  I worked at a big box store and was told to never question anyone; if the animal is specifically making a mess, or making a disturbance than to contact a manager.  

As people see more and more animals that seem to be pets, it causes more and more to think they can bring their own pets and pass them off.  Removing the rule completely would just make the 70%+ who generally follow rules to bring their pets too.  

There was a post 7 or so years ago from someone who owned at an independent resort who made everyone who checked, read a description of what a service animal was (and wasn't). Then they had to answer if they had a service animal with them.  If they did, they had to answer the 2 questions in writing.  Then they had to sign and date and acknowledgement that they read and understood the no pet-service animal policy and that if an animal was not listed and found to be in the unit or at the resort, the occupant would be kicked out and would be charged a $500 cleaning fee and would forfeit the rest of their stay.  If they had a pet that was not a service animal to let the front desk know immediately and every effort would be taken to find them a local pet hotel for the duration of the stay.  I always thought that was a great idea because it provided everything in writing and the person couldn't say they didn't know or understand the requirements and it could make someone who had planned on faking it think twice.


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## davidvel (May 25, 2021)

DisneyJen said:


> The ADA protects people like me who NEED their service animals to live a "normal" life.
> 
> When making reservations at a restaurant, hotel, resort or airline I always have it noted on my reservation. When we are in public and my dog is working he wears a vest identifying him as a service animal. When he is having his play/potty period when we aren't home he wear the vest as well.
> 
> ...


Thank you for sharing with us. As Steve and I think this thread notes, no one is agains


tschwa2 said:


> I think the problem is the law itself doesn't include any penalties for faking it or provide for any physical proof beyond the honor code.  On the other hand if a large business was accused of discriminating or harassing a person with a disability and a service dog the bad PR and the fines terrify most businesses  so they turn a blind eye on anyone who even remotely implies (by bringing their dog when they are told only service animals are allowed) that the dog is a service animal.  I worked at a big box store and was told to never question anyone; if the animal is specifically making a mess, or making a disturbance than to contact a manager.
> 
> As people see more and more animals that seem to be pets, it causes more and more to think they can bring their own pets and pass them off.  Removing the rule completely would just make the 70%+ who generally follow rules to bring their pets too.
> 
> There was a post 7 or so years ago from someone who owned at an independent resort who made everyone who checked, read a description of what a service animal was (and wasn't). Then they had to answer if they had a service animal with them.  If they did, they had to answer the 2 questions in writing.  Then they had to sign and date and acknowledgement that they read and understood the no pet-service animal policy and that if an animal was not listed and found to be in the unit or at the resort, the occupant would be kicked out and would be charged a $500 cleaning fee and would forfeit the rest of their stay.  If they had a pet that was not a service animal to let the front desk know immediately and every effort would be taken to find them a local pet hotel for the duration of the stay.  I always thought that was a great idea because it provided everything in writing and the person couldn't say they didn't know or understand the requirements and it could make someone who had planned on faking it think twice.


This is a great example, and should be sent with a confirmation a few weeks before the stay.


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## kds4 (May 25, 2021)

The two 'themes' I come away with from the topic of discussion here are *selfishness *and *accountability*. The people who bring their pets (not ADA service animals) to MVCI resorts are thinking only of themselves and some self-imagined entitlement to do something they know or should know is not allowed because somehow they don't think the pet rule (and potentially other rules) should apply to them. That is plainly selfish behavior and those persons are mistaken in their belief. In addition, the corporate and resort staff who do not enforce the guest/ownership pet guidelines by asking the 'hard' questions at/before check-in and who do not follow through when unauthorized pets are identified on property (such as the animal left unattended in the unit while the owner is elsewhere or that acts inappropriately for a trained service animal including aggressive/nuisance behaviors when outside the unit), represent a double-failure of accountability. The employees are not holding themselves accountable for enforcing the corporate guidelines (as its representatives) and they are not holding the guests/owners accountable who know or should know what they are doing is wrong (even though they don't care as evidenced by the fact they are doing it in the first place). So, what to do?

The first time I hear a barking dog in a unit, I will call the front desk and alert them to a potential problem in that unit (because maybe it is a legitimate service dog doing what it is supposed to do). If not, the resort personnel should be enforcing the no pets policy in some form - requiring the guests to kennel the pet off-site without delay and/or depart the property without a refund (or a significant cleaning charge at a minimum).

The second time I hear a barking dog in the same unit during my stay, I am less likely to call the front desk since IMHO it is less likely there would be 2 legitimate service animal emergencies during the same week in the same unit where I am staying. Instead, I'm more likely going to contact the local police (non-emergency) and file a nuisance complaint (if at night) or request a welfare check (if during the day) on that unit. Since many properties have staffed entrances, the resort and its management will also be made aware when the police arrive that local authorities have been called to the property. I'm guessing MVCI would prefer this occur as seldom as possible and after x number of occurrences may become more proactive toward prevention. Not everyone will agree with my approach, and that's okay. For me, if negative reinforcement is the only reinforcement that produces a positive result, so be it.

_*A few decades ago, early in my career, a supervisor once told me 'No one will look out for your career better than you', and they were right. I say that principle applies here as well. 'No one will look out for your MVCI ownership and the quality of your vacationing/usage better than you.' So, as with all aspects of being an MVCI owner, including dealing with fake service animals, if for all the money we have spent to be a part of MVCI we won't stand up for our ownership interests, why should anyone else? #PetPeeve *

(Yes, I am a long-time dog owner and I kennel our pets when staying at an MVCI property.) YMMV. _


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## geist1223 (May 25, 2021)

Worldmark has a similar no pets. Members lie just like at other timeshares. There is a $350.00 penalty if you get caught sneaking in a pet. There is a reason for this. We have seen the cleaning they go through with a legitimate service animal. All the furniture was removed for deep cleaning as was the Condo - from ceiling to flooring. We have also experienced what can happen when someone sneaks in a pet. Our former DIL was highly allergic to Cats and Dogs. One time they were checking into a Studio at Seaside Oregon. Within 5 minutes of being in the Room she had to rush out and almost had to use her Epie Auto-injectors. The Resort had no records of an Assistance Animal ever being in the Unit. So obviously someone had an undeclared Pet. Luckily they were able to find them another Unit.


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## vail (May 25, 2021)

Exactly where is everyone spotting all these dogs?
I have travelled for the last 30 years to many different Marriott timeshares.
I have yet to see one dog?

I have seen more wolves in the wild, which is two, than I have seen dogs, service or not, at Marriott timeshares in over 50 stays.

While you are at it, might as well start a petition against cats too.
Because I have seen as many cats as I have seen dogs.


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## Pompey Family (May 26, 2021)

kds4 said:


> The second time I hear a barking dog in the same unit during my stay, I won't call the front desk since it is statistically unlikely there would be 2 legitimate service animal emergencies during the same week in the same unit



How have you determined that it would be statistically unlikely that there would be two legitimate service animal emergencies? My dog performs her role on a daily basis. I have a friend whose dog barks to wake him from nightmares before he harms himself, that is a nightly occurence. The roles performed by service dogs are vast and you cannot arbitrarily decide that there couldn't possibly be two occasions in one week where a service dog is required to perform its role.


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## dougp26364 (May 26, 2021)

geist1223 said:


> Worldmark has a similar no pets. Members lie just like at other timeshares. There is a $350.00 penalty if you get caught sneaking in a pet. There is a reason for this. We have seen the cleaning they go through with a legitimate service animal. All the furniture was removed for deep cleaning as was the Condo - from ceiling to flooring. We have also experienced what can happen when someone sneaks in a pet. Our former DIL was highly allergic to Cats and Dogs. One time they were checking into a Studio at Seaside Oregon. Within 5 minutes of being in the Room she had to rush out and almost had to use her Epie Auto-injectors. The Resort had no records of an Assistance Animal ever being in the Unit. So obviously someone had an undeclared Pet. Luckily they were able to find them another Unit.



Unfortunately, $350 wouldn’t be enough to discourage some from bringing a dog. In our case that’s less expensive than boarding them. Maybe if the fine were closer to $1,000.

We always have to consider the cost of boarding our dogs when making our yearly vacation plans. We have two dogs and the cost for us is $80/night. They’re in a larger suite, get doggie daycare daily and we have to pay for their daily medications. Unlike hotels, we have to pay for the day, not night, so a 7 night timeshare stay costs us 8 days at the pet resort or $640. So a $350 charge would be a bargain for us.

Because of the cost, we always plan a couple of trips where the dogs are allowed. This year we have three such trips, two to Colorado and one to Branson. These are trips to resorts that allow dogs and we declare at the time of reservation. We try to be sensitive to those with allergies. After all, our rights end when they infringe in the rights of someone else.


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## dougp26364 (May 26, 2021)

vail said:


> Exactly where is everyone spotting all these dogs?
> I have travelled for the last 30 years to many different Marriott timeshares.
> I have yet to see one dog?
> 
> ...




Lately we’ve seen an increase in dogs at Ocean Pointe. One of which was a service dog. I was talk8ng with the gentleman about his dog and he should me some of the commands he would follow. I think he had been accused of faking his dog in the past. 

OTOH we’ve seen a few dogs that were obviously NOT trained. It hasn’t been a lot of dogs, but more than I. Previous years, which was zero. We’ve seen issues at some Branson resorts over the years with dogs that appeared to be more pets than service animals, but not at the Marriott resort there. 

I’m not convinced it’s a huge issue, but we have seen an increase at our home resort of Ocean Pointe over the last few years. That increase in the form of spotting one or two dogs obviously not well trained. (Barking at guests, pulling at the lead instead of walking next to the master, marking et.....)


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## kds4 (May 26, 2021)

Pompey Family said:


> How have you determined that it would be statistically unlikely that there would be two legitimate service animal emergencies? My dog performs her role on a daily basis. I have a friend whose dog barks to wake him from nightmares before he harms himself, that is a nightly occurence. The roles performed by service dogs are vast and you cannot arbitrarily decide that there couldn't possibly be two occasions in one week where a service dog is required to perform its role.



Fair enough. I concede there could be service animals that have to perform their function regularly, even daily. Thank you for the information. My comments are more directed toward barking animals where there is no indication that there is anyone else in the unit with the pet and/or occupants socializing on their balcony with a dog that is barking at passers-by (both examples of non-service animal behavior and both of which I have experienced at Marriott's Grande Vista and Harbor Lakes properties in Orlando respectively).


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## Pompey Family (May 26, 2021)

kds4 said:


> My comments are more directed toward barking animals where there is no indication that there is anyone else in the unit with the pet and/or occupants socializing on their balcony with a dog that is barking at passers-by (both examples of non-service animal behavior and both of which I have experienced at Marriott's Grande Vista and Harbor Lakes properties in Orlando respectively).



In which case I'm in complete agreement with you.


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## SueDonJ (May 26, 2021)

dougp26364 said:


> Unfortunately, $350 wouldn’t be enough to discourage some from bringing a dog. In our case that’s less expensive than boarding them. Maybe if the fine were closer to $1,000.
> 
> We always have to consider the cost of boarding our dogs when making our yearly vacation plans. We have two dogs and the cost for us is $80/night. They’re in a larger suite, get doggie daycare daily and we have to pay for their daily medications. Unlike hotels, we have to pay for the day, not night, so a 7 night timeshare stay costs us 8 days at the pet resort or $640. So a $350 charge would be a bargain for us.
> 
> Because of the cost, we always plan a couple of trips where the dogs are allowed. This year we have three such trips, two to Colorado and one to Branson. These are trips to resorts that allow dogs and we declare at the time of reservation. We try to be sensitive to those with allergies. After all, our rights end when they infringe in the rights of someone else.



Sure, impose a high monetary fine. But I'd rather that they enforce the rules that are already stated in the governing docs (of my two resorts, at least, but I'm assuming of most if not all) and simply kick out the people who have non-service animals in the units. Just kick them out! It's happening more and more often because they're doing nothing - they're not proactive enough to make sure that people are intimidated into not bringing their pets with them, and they're not reactive enough when legitimate complaints are lodged.

Just kick out the first offenders and suspend the usage rights of those who are repeat offenders, and let the word get out that Marriott isn't playing around with this nonsense anymore.


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## LUVourMarriotts (May 26, 2021)

vail said:


> Exactly where is everyone spotting all these dogs?
> I have travelled for the last 30 years to many different Marriott timeshares.
> I have yet to see one dog?
> 
> ...


During all of my 2020 and 2021 MVC stays, totaling 5 stays, I have seen dogs that were obviously not service animals. This covers 4 different east coast resorts. During my last stay, there were 3 dogs that could not have been service animals, and I was only at that resort for 3 days. One little lap dog that was running around the pool area chasing birds and barking like crazy. And 2 that came out of the elevators at the same time, different elevators, and immediately started barking at each other and eventually licking each other all over the place while the owners laughed and called them stupid dogs.
In addition, on certain Facebook groups, this issue has come up pretty regularly with other occurrences. In a few occasions, with people posting pictures of the dogs. One of them was a dog being walked around in the pool.


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## Steve Fatula (May 26, 2021)

I am going to start using this as my reason for not purchasing at "owner updates". I think someone else suggested this and I think it's a great idea. I'll certainly continue to complain to the front desk about endless barking though, they do need to know and at least get the chance to take proper action.


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## klpca (May 26, 2021)

LUVourMarriotts said:


> During all of my 2020 and 2021 MVC stays, totaling 5 stays, I have seen dogs that were obviously not service animals. This covers 4 different east coast resorts. During my last stay, there were 3 dogs that could not have been service animals, and I was only at that resort for 3 days. One little lap dog that was running around the pool area chasing birds and barking like crazy. And 2 that came out of the elevators at the same time, different elevators, and immediately started barking at each other and eventually licking each other all over the place while the owners laughed and called them stupid dogs.
> In addition, on certain Facebook groups, this issue has come up pretty regularly with other occurrences. In a few occasions, with people posting pictures of the dogs. One of them was a dog being walked around in the pool.


I just saw one at Timber Lodge in September 2020. An unruly Husky.


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## Big Matt (May 26, 2021)

I just received a pre-arrival email for my upcoming stay at Manor Club and another from the organization that did the petition (which I signed).  Change.org said that they communicated with MVC executives.  

Guess what the first line of the pre-arrival said?  You are correct if you think that they welcome service animals, but pets are not allowed...  I have no idea if it was always on the Manor Club arrival site, but is sure seems to be coincident.


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## vail (May 26, 2021)

There should be a thread with....dog sightings.


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## Dean (May 26, 2021)

vail said:


> There should be a thread with....dog sightings.


With pictures like the view thread?


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## vail (May 26, 2021)

maybe photo's...not pictures


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## dougp26364 (May 26, 2021)

SueDonJ said:


> Sure, impose a high monetary fine. But I'd rather that they enforce the rules that are already stated in the governing docs (of my two resorts, at least, but I'm assuming of most if not all) and simply kick out the people who have non-service animals in the units. Just kick them out! It's happening more and more often because they're doing nothing - they're not proactive enough to make sure that people are intimidated into not bringing their pets with them, and they're not reactive enough when legitimate complaints are lodged.
> 
> Just kick out the first offenders and suspend the usage rights of those who are repeat offenders, and let the word get out that Marriott isn't playing around with this nonsense anymore.



I agree. It would be much easier if they’d just enforce their own rules and tell the guests, board your dog or leave.


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## LUVourMarriotts (May 27, 2021)

Big Matt said:


> I just received a pre-arrival email for my upcoming stay at Manor Club and another from the organization that did the petition (which I signed).  Change.org said that they communicated with MVC executives.
> 
> Guess what the first line of the pre-arrival said?  You are correct if you think that they welcome service animals, but pets are not allowed...  I have no idea if it was always on the Manor Club arrival site, but is sure seems to be coincident.


I also see the same bullet item on my pre-arrival email at OceanWatch.  I went back and checked my emails for the same thing on previous pre-arrival emails, and I see it on many, not all, back to late 2019.  The email we (those who signed) received from change.org about the communication to MVC executives came from the petition organizer.  
Although the bullet item saying no pets has been there for at least a year +, it is being ignored by those people that rules do not apply to.


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## Big Matt (May 27, 2021)

Brady, thanks for digging up the old emails.  I somewhat figured that it was a coincidence.


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## Hobee (May 27, 2021)

We are at SurfWatch on HHI this week.  Checked in Saturday.  Having a terrific stay as usual.  I have noticed at least 5 different dogs on the property this week.  More than I can ever recall before.  I will likely inquire about the policy and its enforcement here before we check out.


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## Superchief (May 27, 2021)

Hobee said:


> We are at SurfWatch on HHI this week.  Checked in Saturday.  Having a terrific stay as usual.  I have noticed at least 5 different dogs on the property this week.  More than I can ever recall before.  I will likely inquire about the policy and its enforcement here before we check out.


I noticed the same thing on my two visits there this year. I think one problem at this resort is that it is very spread out and has lots of wooded areas. It would be easier for a dog to get noticed at GO or Barony.

I first started to observe this problem at Newport Coast several years ago. It is also pretty spread out and California has always been ahead of the curve.


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## pedro47 (May 27, 2021)

Hobee said:


> We are at SurfWatch on HHI this week.  Checked in Saturday.  Having a terrific stay as usual.  I have noticed at least 5 different dogs on the property this week.  More than I can ever recall before.  I will likely inquire about the policy and its enforcement here before we check out.


Were they (the service animal) walking beside the person or in front of the person or just running around. First clue. Service animals normally will walk beside the person and will not leave the disable/owner unattended.


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## geist1223 (May 27, 2021)

When they ask you to attend an "Owners' Update" tell them you will not attend another update until they start enforcing the no pet rule.


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## dougp26364 (May 27, 2021)

Hobee said:


> We are at SurfWatch on HHI this week.  Checked in Saturday.  Having a terrific stay as usual.  I have noticed at least 5 different dogs on the property this week.  More than I can ever recall before.  I will likely inquire about the policy and its enforcement here before we check out.


 
i think I’ll start taking photos and sending them to corporate with an inquiry as to why the rules aren’t enforced for all.


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## dougp26364 (May 27, 2021)

pedro47 said:


> Were they (the service animal) walking beside the person or in front of the person or just running around. First clue. Service animals normally will walk beside the person and will not leave the disable/owner unattended.


.

EXACTLY! The first clue I note is where the dog is walking. In order to pass the first 39 weeks of trialing and move forward, they must walk at the owners side.


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## bazzap (May 27, 2021)

I am not sure how recently these entries have been added into the vacation club hub update pages, e.g.








						Resort Status | Marriott’s Newport Coast Villas | Marriott Vacation Club
					

View property and destination updates for Marriott’s Newport Coast Villas in California. Learn more about the current status of resort amenities and services.




					hub.vacationclub.com
				



*“Pet Policy*
*This property welcomes ADA service animals. Pets are not permitted.”*

but I suspect all resorts and done corporately, as it also shows for the European and Asian resorts where ADA does not even legally apply?!








						Resort Status | Marriott’s Marbella Beach Resort
					

View property and destination updates for Marriott’s Marbella Beach Resort in Marbella, Málaga, Spain. Learn more about the current status of resort amenities and services.




					hub.vacationclub.com


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## Big Matt (May 27, 2021)

dougp26364 said:


> i think I’ll start taking photos and sending them to corporate with an inquiry as to why the rules aren’t enforced for all.


I think this is a really good idea.


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## vail (May 27, 2021)

Yes post the photos and we can all vote on whether the dog has been smoking weed or not?
If you include the owner we can vote on them as well.


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## jmhpsu93 (May 28, 2021)

At Ocean Pointe this week.  We just had a log lick both my wife (very allergic to dogs) and me (would've been cool anywhere they actually belong) in the <redacted for profanity> Marketplace.  The dog was being controlled by a 3 year old (at most).

I walked to the front desk, asked them what the pet policy was.  "Service animals only".  I just reported what happened and let the front desk associate about the growning swell about it and that she should tell the GM.


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## pedro47 (May 28, 2021)

IMO, a true service animal will not touch/lick a total strange. They are trained to only serve their disable owner.


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## Steve Fatula (May 28, 2021)

jmhpsu93 said:


> At Ocean Pointe this week.  We just had a log lick both my wife (very allergic to dogs) and me (would've been cool anywhere they actually belong) in the <redacted for profanity> Marketplace.  The dog was being controlled by a 3 year old (at most).
> 
> I walked to the front desk, asked them what the pet policy was.  "Service animals only".  I just reported what happened and let the front desk associate about the growning swell about it and that she should tell the GM.



Wow, that would have been a big problem for me, super allergic as well. If no adult around, would be hard to complain loudly to the Kid. If the owner was around, they would have gotten a piece of my mind. Glad you reported to front desk.


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## vail (May 28, 2021)

Why didn't you just explain to the 3 year old that service dogs only are allowed?
If he was only 2 years old, than you were correct in not saying anything.

Parents must have been smoking weed on the balcony....


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## jmhpsu93 (May 28, 2021)

Steve Fatula said:


> Wow, that would have been a big problem for me, super allergic as well. If no adult around, would be hard to complain loudly to the Kid. If the owner was around, they would have gotten a piece of my mind. Glad you reported to front desk.


The owner was there as well.  I just didn't want to make a scene - the Marketplace at OP is really, really small and the kid had nothing to do with it.

I don't think the family with the dog had anything to do with ownership at MVC either, so I'm going to blame this on management not being really clear about it to renters.


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## Pompey Family (May 29, 2021)

pedro47 said:


> IMO, a true service animal will not touch/lick a total strange. They are trained to only serve their disable owner.



That's not entirely correct. Whilst the majority of service dogs will not interact with strangers you cannot completely train out a dog's natural instincts and there may be occasions when some will exhibit them which is one of the reasons service dog vests usually have a 'do not pet' badge on them because invariably if you pet a service dog it's going to respond in a natural manner.

As for being trained only to serve their owner, the dogs that are used by the organisation I work with are trained to accompany a stranger if required such as a medical emergency involving the owner in which the dog has to be removed. My dog will also perform some of her roles on other people if she picks up on certain signs, she hasn't been trained to do so but she clearly recognises situations where her training can assist. Many service dogs are also used as trauma therapy dogs and deployed to incidents involving the emergency services that can often be traumatic, the dogs use their training and their natural calming effect to diffuse tension and stress.


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## jmhpsu93 (May 29, 2021)

Pompey Family said:


> That's not entirely correct. Whilst the majority of service dogs will not interact with strangers you cannot completely train out a dog's natural instincts and there may be occasions when some will exhibit them which is one of the reasons service dog vests usually have a 'do not pet' badge on them because invariably if you pet a service dog it's going to respond in a natural manner.
> 
> As for being trained only to serve their owner the dogs that are used by the organisation I work with are trained to accompany a stranger if required such as a medical emergency involving the owner in which the dog has to be removed. My dog will also perform some of her roles on other people if she picks up on certain signs, she hasn't been trained to do so but she clearly recognises situations where her training can assist. Many service dogs are also used as therapy dogs and deployed to incidents involving the emergency services that can often be traumatic, the dogs use their training and their natural calming effect to diffuse tension and stress.


I appreciate your insight into this topic.


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## pedro47 (May 29, 2021)

Pompey Family said:


> That's not entirely correct. Whilst the majority of service dogs will not interact with strangers you cannot completely train out a dog's natural instincts and there may be occasions when some will exhibit them which is one of the reasons service dog vests usually have a 'do not pet' badge on them because invariably if you pet a service dog it's going to respond in a natural manner.
> 
> As for being trained only to serve their owner the dogs that are used by the organisation I work with are trained to accompany a stranger if required such as a medical emergency involving the owner in which the dog has to be removed. My dog will also perform some of her roles on other people if she picks up on certain signs, she hasn't been trained to do so but she clearly recognises situations where her training can assist. Many service dogs are also used as trauma therapy dogs and deployed to incidents involving the emergency services that can often be traumatic, the dogs use their training and their natural calming effect to diffuse tension and stress.


Thanks for sharing this information.


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## TravelTime (May 29, 2021)

jme said:


> I heard they don't inhale......



 I wish my pets would eat some special brownies or something so they would relax. LOL


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## WVBaker (May 29, 2021)

TravelTime said:


> I wish my pets would eat some special brownies or something so they would relax. LOL


No doubt they say the same thing about their owners.


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## PDX Matthew (May 29, 2021)

The Americans with Disabilities Act applies to all time shares located in the USA. It requires that providers of public accommodations, like Time Shares, make reasonable accommodations for persons with disabilities including accommodating service animals, which are defined in the Act as dogs or miniature horses trained in specific tasks to assist the disabled person in the activities of daily life. The ADA does not require that emotional support animals be accommodated, however the Fair Housing Act and state and local laws may require the accommodation of ESAs, the FHA doesn’t apply to Time Shares as far as I know. I have no problem with service dogs/miniature horses, or ESAs that have some training - the AKC Good Canine Citizen certification (or equivalent) would be a minimum. 

Where I do have a problem is people buying ESA credentials on the internet to pass their pets off as ESAs. This does a great disservice to those with mental illnesses who have a need for ESAs and get lumped in with fakers. There has been so much abuse of fake ESA credentials that I think it is time that we have federal or state certification of this area.

We never travel with our pets, and don’t want to. We’ve been going to HI recently anyway, so nobody is going to go through the HI government’s quarantine process to bring their dogs for a week.


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## Pompey Family (May 29, 2021)

jmhpsu93 said:


> I appreciate your insight into this topic.



You're welcome. I often find that there's a high degree of expectation with service dogs and the training they receive and whilst the behaviour of a fully trained service dog is often exceptionally good they're not infallible and sometimes a dog's natural instinct will kick in.

I recall an occasion fairly recently where I was in a supermarket with my dog. At one point I became quite dissociative and I was aware of a dog barking, my initial thought was "it's unusual to have another dog in here" before realising that it was my dog barking. She was barking at a young man who was standing close by looking at me. He had a facemask on and was not acting in a manner that she felt was normal and noticing that I was not fully aware, her bark was a warning for me. This is the only occasion she has ever barked at someone and looking at the circumstances it was completely understandable however to a bystander, it may have appeared that she was not behaving in a manner expected of a service dog.

When I travel with my dog she is in her vest when in public with the only exception being when she's exercised off lead. If I'm in a hotel lobby she's in her vest, if I'm walking around the resort she's in her vest, if I'm relaxing by the pool, she's in her vest. At all times she's expected to be quiet and unobtrusive and not to solicit attention. She is trained not to toilet whilst in her vest and is expected to remain with me at all times unless told otherwise. When in my room she does not wear her vest and therefore could be seen on the balcony without it however she would not be expected to bark and to date, this has been my experience. I would expect this to be the same with other official service dogs. The descriptions of encounters with dogs at resorts detailed on this thread supports the theory that most, if not all of them, were not true service dogs however it is worth remembering that sometimes they do slip into natural instinct mode.


----------



## Mlvnsmly (May 29, 2021)

Pompey Family said:


> You're welcome. I often find that there's a high degree of expectation with service dogs and the training they receive and whilst the behaviour of a fully trained service dog is often exceptionally good they're not infallible and sometimes a dog's natural instinct will kick in.
> 
> I recall an occasion fairly recently where I was in a supermarket with my dog. At one point I became quite dissociative and I was aware of a dog barking, my initial thought was "it's unusual to have another dog in here" before realising that it was my dog barking. She was barking at a young man who was standing close by looking at me. He had a facemask on and was not acting in a manner that she felt was normal and noticing that I was not fully aware, her bark was a warning for me. This is the only occasion she has ever barked at someone and looking at the circumstances it was completely understandable however to a bystander, it may have appeared that she was not behaving in a manner expected of a service dog.
> 
> When I travel with my dog she is in her vest when in public with the only exception being when she's exercised off lead. If I'm in a hotel lobby she's in her vest, if I'm walking around the resort she's in her vest, if I'm relaxing by the pool, she's in her vest. At all times she's expected to be quiet and unobtrusive and not to solicit attention. She is trained not to toilet whilst in her vest and is expected to remain with me at all times unless told otherwise. When in my room she does not wear her vest and therefore could be seen on the balcony without it however she would not be expected to bark and to date, this has been my experience. I would expect this to be the same with other official service dogs. The descriptions of encounters with dogs at resorts detailed on this thread supports the theory that most, if not all of them, were not true service dogs however it is worth remembering that sometimes they do slip into natural instinct mode.



I would like us to be able to get back to a point where nobody has to question whether a service animal is legitimate or not. That's how it was when I was young.  If you saw a dog in a place like a hotel or timeshare that did not allow pets, you didn't even think about it.  You just knew it was a service animal.  I think unfortunately due to the abuse of the ADA by people with pets, that ship may have permanently sailed.  I find that to be very unfortunate for people who rely on true service animals.


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## Dean (May 29, 2021)

PDX Matthew said:


> The Americans with Disabilities Act applies to all time shares located in the USA. It requires that providers of public accommodations, like Time Shares, make reasonable accommodations for persons with disabilities including accommodating service animals, which are defined in the Act as dogs or miniature horses trained in specific tasks to assist the disabled person in the activities of daily life. The ADA does not require that emotional support animals be accommodated, however the Fair Housing Act and state and local laws may require the accommodation of ESAs, the FHA doesn’t apply to Time Shares as far as I know. I have no problem with service dogs/miniature horses, or ESAs that have some training - the AKC Good Canine Citizen certification (or equivalent) would be a minimum.
> 
> Where I do have a problem is people buying ESA credentials on the internet to pass their pets off as ESAs. This does a great disservice to those with mental illnesses who have a need for ESAs and get lumped in with fakers. There has been so much abuse of fake ESA credentials that I think it is time that we have federal or state certification of this area.
> 
> We never travel with our pets, and don’t want to. We’ve been going to HI recently anyway, so nobody is going to go through the HI government’s quarantine process to bring their dogs for a week.


I'll point out there are some potential limitations on the miniature horse option plus the ADA definition of service animal omitted the miniature horse as an option.


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## pedro47 (May 29, 2021)

Pompey Family said:


> You're welcome. I often find that there's a high degree of expectation with service dogs and the training they receive and whilst the behaviour of a fully trained service dog is often exceptionally good they're not infallible and sometimes a dog's natural instinct will kick in.
> 
> I recall an occasion fairly recently where I was in a supermarket with my dog. At one point I became quite dissociative and I was aware of a dog barking, my initial thought was "it's unusual to have another dog in here" before realising that it was my dog barking. She was barking at a young man who was standing close by looking at me. He had a facemask on and was not acting in a manner that she felt was normal and noticing that I was not fully aware, her bark was a warning for me. This is the only occasion she has ever barked at someone and looking at the circumstances it was completely understandable however to a bystander, it may have appeared that she was not behaving in a manner expected of a service dog.
> 
> When I travel with my dog she is in her vest when in public with the only exception being when she's exercised off lead. If I'm in a hotel lobby she's in her vest, if I'm walking around the resort she's in her vest, if I'm relaxing by the pool, she's in her vest. At all times she's expected to be quiet and unobtrusive and not to solicit attention. She is trained not to toilet whilst in her vest and is expected to remain with me at all times unless told otherwise. When in my room she does not wear her vest and therefore could be seen on the balcony without it however she would not be expected to bark and to date, this has been my experience. I would expect this to be the same with other official service dogs. The descriptions of encounters with dogs at resorts detailed on this thread supports the theory that most, if not all of them, were not true service dogs however it is worth remembering that sometimes they do slip into natural instinct mode.


Thank you for your comments.


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## WVBaker (May 29, 2021)

Dean said:


> I'll point out there are some potential limitations on the miniature horse option plus the ADA definition of service animal omitted the miniature horse as an option.


In addition to the provisions about service dogs, the Department’s ADA regulations have a separate provision about miniature horses that have been individually trained to do work or perform tasks for people with disabilities. 





__





						Redirecting…
					





					www.ada.gov


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## DisneyJen (May 29, 2021)

pedro47 said:


> IMO, a true service animal will not touch/lick a total strange. They are trained to only serve their disable owner.



You are correct. My service dog completely ignores EVERYONE but me. I do wish folks would understand that they can't pet or touch a working service dog.


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## kds4 (May 29, 2021)

kds4 said:


> The two 'themes' I come away with from the topic of discussion here are *selfishness *and *accountability*. The people who bring their pets (not ADA service animals) to MVCI resorts are thinking only of themselves and some self-imagined entitlement to do something they know or should know is not allowed because somehow they don't think the pet rule (and potentially other rules) should apply to them. That is plainly selfish behavior and those persons are mistaken in their belief. In addition, the corporate and resort staff who do not enforce the guest/ownership pet guidelines by asking the 'hard' questions at/before check-in and who do not follow through when unauthorized pets are identified on property (such as the animal left unattended in the unit while the owner is elsewhere or that acts inappropriately for a trained service animal including aggressive/nuisance behaviors when outside the unit), represent a double-failure of accountability. The employees are not holding themselves accountable for enforcing the corporate guidelines (as its representatives) and they are not holding the guests/owners accountable who know or should know what they are doing is wrong (even though they don't care as evidenced by the fact they are doing it in the first place). So, what to do?
> 
> The first time I hear a barking dog in a unit, I will call the front desk and alert them to a potential problem in that unit (because maybe it is a legitimate service dog doing what it is supposed to do). If not, the resort personnel should be enforcing the no pets policy in some form - requiring the guests to kennel the pet off-site without delay and/or depart the property without a refund (or a significant cleaning charge at a minimum).
> 
> ...



Getting ready for an upcoming stay at an MVCI property. Will be interesting to see if this issue rears its head during our trip. If so, will definitely share here on our return.


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## kds4 (May 29, 2021)

Deleted.


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## turkel (May 29, 2021)

Signed and sent to both my mom and sister also Marriott owners.


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## DavidBr (May 29, 2021)

PDX Matthew said:


> The Americans with Disabilities Act applies to all time shares located in the USA. It requires that providers of public accommodations, like Time Shares, make reasonable accommodations for persons with disabilities including accommodating service animals, which are defined in the Act as dogs or miniature horses trained in specific tasks to assist the disabled person in the activities of daily life. The ADA does not require that emotional support animals be accommodated, however the Fair Housing Act and state and local laws may require the accommodation of ESAs, the FHA doesn’t apply to Time Shares as far as I know. I have no problem with service dogs/miniature horses, or ESAs that have some training - the AKC Good Canine Citizen certification (or equivalent) would be a minimum.
> 
> Where I do have a problem is people buying ESA credentials on the internet to pass their pets off as ESAs. This does a great disservice to those with mental illnesses who have a need for ESAs and get lumped in with fakers. There has been so much abuse of fake ESA credentials that I think it is time that we have federal or state certification of this area.
> 
> We never travel with our pets, and don’t want to. We’ve been going to HI recently anyway, so nobody is going to go through the HI government’s quarantine process to bring their dogs for a week.


Unfortunately, I have been to Ko olina a couple of years ago, and got to see a woman take her "emotional support animal" into the swimming pool.  She thought it was okay because she didn't dip the animal in the water, she just held the dog. The security staff was called, but they decided that they weren't going to interfere. I ended up mentioning it at the front desk, but to my knowledge nothing was done.  I am all in favor of allowing true service animals to be at timeshares.  It is required by law.  I think many people abuse the emotional support animal concept.  Why can't Marriott Vacation Club adopt the rules that most of the airlines have imposed? That is, a guide dog or other service animal can board the plane without question, but an emotional support animal needs further documentation such as a letter why this is necessary written by a medical professional.  Otherwise it's open season.  I have also been on Southwest Airlines with another passenger's emotional support Great Dane.


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## Dean (May 29, 2021)

DavidBr said:


> Unfortunately, I have been to Ko olina a couple of years ago, and got to see a woman take her "emotional support animal" into the swimming pool.  She thought it was okay because she didn't dip the animal in the water, she just held the dog. The security staff was called, but they decided that they weren't going to interfere. I ended up mentioning it at the front desk, but to my knowledge nothing was done.  I am all in favor of allowing true service animals to be at timeshares.  It is required by law.  I think many people abuse the emotional support animal concept.  Why can't Marriott Vacation Club adopt the rules that most of the airlines have imposed? That is, a guide dog or other service animal can board the plane without question, but an emotional support animal needs further documentation such as a letter why this is necessary written by a medical professional.  Otherwise it's open season.  I have also been on Southwest Airlines with another passenger's emotional support Great Dane.


I don't think even true service animals are allowed in pools.


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## dioxide45 (May 29, 2021)

I found this when going through some older videos. If one support animal isn't enough, this person had two. Video from Sheraton Vistana Villages in 2020.








						When One Isn't Enough
					






					bit.ly


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## Pompey Family (May 30, 2021)

Dean said:


> I don't think even true service animals are allowed in pools.



There's no reason why they shouldn't. A friend of mine takes his service dog swimming with him at his local gym. Having watched people exit the sauna or steam room and go straight into the pool, covered in sweat, I'd say the dog is cleaner than a lot of people using the pool.

As much as my dog loves swimming I wouldn't allow her to go into a pool as I don't need the hassle of people telling me she shouldn't be in there, how unhygienic it is and so on.


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## WVBaker (May 30, 2021)

Dean said:


> I don't think even true service animals are allowed in pools.


No, they're not. They are allowed on the pool deck area and any other areas the public is allowed to go.


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## Pompey Family (May 30, 2021)

WVBaker said:


> No, they're not. They are allowed on the pool deck area and any other areas the public is allowed to go.



This is a rule set by the ADA. In the UK it's different and whilst there is no explicit reference to dogs being allowed in pools the law states that assistance dogs are allowed access to anywhere when accompanied by their owner. I guess there's been no case law surrounding this prospect and whilst some pools allow assistance dogs I suspect that the majority of owners don't allow their dogs to enter the pool by their own choice.


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## WVBaker (May 30, 2021)

Pompey Family said:


> I suspect that the majority of owners don't allow their dogs to enter the pool by their own choice.


And, for the wellbeing of the other guests and the dogs themselves, nor should they. But, just my opinion.


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## Pompey Family (May 30, 2021)

WVBaker said:


> And, for the wellbeing of the other guests and the dogs themselves, nor should they. But, just my opinion.



I disagree. Most dogs are cleaner than many humans. How many sweat covered people enter the pool not to mention the number who slyly urinate in there. I don't see many people objecting to swimming in lakes alongside dogs or the sea. Swimming pools are sufficiently chlorinated to deal with any prospect of bacterial contamination. I wouldn't advocate dogs being in heavily congested pools however a dog performing lengths alongside its owner shouldn't pose any issue.


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## jmhpsu93 (May 30, 2021)

Pompey Family said:


> I disagree. Most dogs are cleaner than many humans. How many sweat covered people enter the pool not to mention the number who slyly urinate in there. I don't see many people objecting to swimming in lakes alongside dogs or the sea. Swimming pools are sufficiently chlorinated to deal with any prospect of bacterial contamination. I wouldn't advocate dogs being in heavily congested pools however a dog performing lengths alongside its owner shouldn't pose any issue.


A dog swimming laps would be quite a sight.


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## dioxide45 (May 30, 2021)

Pompey Family said:


> Most dogs are cleaner than many humans.


Not sure this is really the case. Sweat doesn't necessarily make a person dirty. Bacteria does. Bacteria can form on the human or animal skin. Animals happen to have more hair that can catch and gather other dirt. Dogs roll around on the ground quite often, humans *usually* don't. The frequency of cleaning is also a big factor here. How often is the dog bathed vs how often the human takes a bath or shower. It is also a common myth that a dogs mouth is cleaner than a humans. That isn't necessarily the case as many people don't take their dogs for regular dental cleanings nor perform proper oral hygiene on their pets.


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## gln60 (May 30, 2021)

One thing you can be sure of…a dogs feet are not clean.


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## F1or1da1 (May 30, 2021)

dioxide45 said:


> The problem is resorts either aren't asking or are accepting "emotional support" as an answer to #2.


Emotional Support is BS...people too cheap to pay a boarding fee. Couple had 2 Jack Russel size dogs and guy was bragging how he gets them in everywhere he goes. Vacation Village at Jiminy Peak in MA had a building for pets away from others. Walking them, pickup and deposit of poop was still a problem


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## WVBaker (May 30, 2021)

Pompey Family said:


> I disagree. Most dogs are cleaner than many humans. How many sweat covered people enter the pool not to mention the number who slyly urinate in there. I don't see many people objecting to swimming in lakes alongside dogs or the sea. Swimming pools are sufficiently chlorinated to deal with any prospect of bacterial contamination. I wouldn't advocate dogs being in heavily congested pools however a dog performing lengths alongside its owner shouldn't pose any issue.



Please keep in mind that this goes beyond just cleanliness, which is only a part of this.

Any quest needs to be aware of any regulations that govern a specific resort and what is allowed and what isn't. Should any public health regulation prohibit dogs in swimming pools, the resort can't ignore those regulations. ADA policies do not override any public health rule that prohibits dogs in swimming pools. What those policies do state is that service animals must be allowed on the pool deck and in other areas where the public can go. A service dog in the pool area is considered a reasonable ADA accommodation. The dog must remain under control, whether the dog’s leash is held by another person or tethered to a stable element.

We can agree that public pools can become quite chaotic. That's a situation I would not impose on a any dog, no matter how well trained. Dogs, should they be placed in that type of environment, can become anxious and perhaps frightened to a point where they may strike out. In the water, an owner simply doesn't have the same control over their dog as they have on land.


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## Pompey Family (May 30, 2021)

gln60 said:


> One thing you can be sure of…a dogs feet are not clean.



As clean as a person's who has been walking around bare foot.

Yes, I understand that dogs have a propensity to roll around in all sorts of undesirable stuff however my dog will only do that when exercising off lead, she's never done it when working and when she is covered in fox poo or whatever she receives a thorough shower when she gets home. The vast majority of dogs are clean and pose no health risk in a pool however I accept that a lot of people would not be happy to see a dog in a pool and that's the reason I don't allow mine in.


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## Pompey Family (May 30, 2021)

jmhpsu93 said:


> A dog swimming laps would be quite a sight.



It is . My friend's assistance dog is a cocker spaniel and he swims lengths alongside him. He's such an adorable dog and all the gym members are now used to seeing him in the pool that no-one bats an eyelid.


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## gln60 (May 30, 2021)

Pompey Family said:


> As clean as a person's who has been walking around bare foot.
> 
> Yes, I understand that dogs have a propensity to roll around in all sorts of undesirable stuff however my dog will only do that when exercising off lead, she's never done it when working and when she is covered in fox poo or whatever she receives a thorough shower when she gets home. The vast majority of dogs are clean and pose no health risk in a pool however I accept that a lot of people would not be happy to see a dog in a pool and that's the reason I don't allow mine in.


ok...sure


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## Pompey Family (May 31, 2021)

A great contribution to the thread there gln60.


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## gln60 (May 31, 2021)

Pompey Family said:


> A great contribution to the thread there gln60.


Thank you your Highness


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## alchook (May 31, 2021)

Pompey Family said:


> Most dogs are cleaner than many humans.



Absolutely, as long as they shower every day.

Dogs are quite meticulous when it comes to personal hygiene.


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## skimeup (Jun 1, 2021)

Dean said:


> I'll point out there are some potential limitations on the miniature horse option plus the ADA definition of service animal omitted the miniature horse as an option.



Unless you put special brownies in their hay.


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## billymach4 (Jun 1, 2021)

Let's not forget... What is the first thing 2 dogs do when they greet each other for the first time?


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## dioxide45 (Jun 1, 2021)

billymach4 said:


> Let's not forget... What is the first thing 2 dogs do when they greet each other for the first time?


Offer each other some brownies?


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## skimeup (Jun 1, 2021)

I used to own at Los Abrigados in Sedona (until DRI took it over - nuff said).  We could have one or two pets there with a daily fee - pretty sure it was both cats and dogs - no miniature horses or pigs.  I frequently travel by myself as an older (more mature?) single woman.  Thus, it was terrific for me to have that option.  They actually had designated buildings where one could have pets and the included units were not filled with non-pet  owners unless they were full up.

I totally get that many folks would like their resort experience to be dog free.  What I'd really like to know is which timeshares DO allow dogs.  Don't have one now but plan on acquiring one in January so I'd really love to take vacations where dogs are permitted and then we'd all be happy!  (Not that I sneak my pets in or have a fake ESA cert - but I'd rather pay to have them with me rather than pay for a kennel.)  I did see a mention that someone had been at a resort that allowed pets but I can't find it.


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## Dean (Jun 2, 2021)

skimeup said:


> I used to own at Los Abrigados in Sedona (until DRI took it over - nuff said).  We could have one or two pets there with a daily fee - pretty sure it was both cats and dogs - no miniature horses or pigs.  I frequently travel by myself as an older (more mature?) single woman.  Thus, it was terrific for me to have that option.  They actually had designated buildings where one could have pets and the included units were not filled with non-pet  owners unless they were full up.
> 
> I totally get that many folks would like their resort experience to be dog free.  What I'd really like to know is which timeshares DO allow dogs.  Don't have one now but plan on acquiring one in January so I'd really love to take vacations where dogs are permitted and then we'd all be happy!  (Not that I sneak my pets in or have a fake ESA cert - but I'd rather pay to have them with me rather than pay for a kennel.)  I did see a mention that someone had been at a resort that allowed pets but I can't find it.


There are a few that do, many of the Westgate properties do.  Each that I have seen specifics on handled them differently as to whether they have specified rooms, the fees, cleaning, etc.


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## LUVourMarriotts (Jun 4, 2021)

Someone at Desert Springs Villas reported today, a dog running out on the golf course, with picture.  This was on the Owners Network FB group.  Shortly after, a video of a man following the dog and the dog continuing to move away from him.  The dog was wearing a vest of some sort.  It appears the dog/guest is staying at Desert Springs, not the JW.  Either way, pets are not allowed at either location.


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## aka Julie (Jun 5, 2021)

LUVourMarriotts said:


> Someone at Desert Springs Villas reported today, a dog running out on the golf course, with picture.  This was on the Owners Network FB group.  Shortly after, a video of a man following the dog and the dog continuing to move away from him.  The dog was wearing a vest of some sort.  It appears the dog/guest is staying at Desert Springs, not the JW.  Either way, pets are not allowed at either location.


We saw the same thing at Shadowridge several years ago. Small dog running out on the golf course from the owner’s first floor unit.


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## CPNY (Jun 5, 2021)

There were people who brought their little maltepoopoo poodle teacup white little dog to WSJ this week. Just hanging out at the grills. No, it wasn’t a service dog....


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## SueDonJ (Jun 5, 2021)

CPNY said:


> There were people who brought their little *maltepoopoo poodle teacup* white little dog to WSJ this week. Just hanging out at the grills. No, it wasn’t a service dog....



 "Little yip dogs" is what I call them.


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## ahdah (Jun 5, 2021)

I think it would be a great idea if Marriott required all dogs be registered at check-in.  Real service dog owners would not mind because they know many guests are abusing the "no pet" rules.  Once a dog was registered, they would be given a tag that would indicate the dog was a registered service dog at the resort. (like the wrist bands they ask guest to wear) Any animal not registered would be given a heavy fine and removed from the resort.  That way if you saw a dog you would know they were registered or if they did not have the tag, they could be reported. This might stop guests from slipping their pets into the resort.  It is time Marriott came up with a solution and stop ignoring dogs that they know are not service dogs.  I am not opposed to service dogs, only pets that should not be there.  My children own dogs but they do not bring them because it is against the rules.


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## SueDonJ (Jun 5, 2021)

_Post removed by request, and I apologize to anyone who took offense. None was intended. _


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## Foggy1 (Jun 5, 2021)

SueDonJ said:


> "Little yip dogs" is what I call them.


I call them “Ankle Biters.”


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## Superchief (Jun 5, 2021)

Are Reindeer allowed?


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## Norcal5 (Jun 5, 2021)

vail said:


> Service dogs that bark could be saving someone's life.
> On Hilton Head many years ago we saw a foreman supervising heavy machinery doing landscaping.
> With him was a medium size dog at best that followed him watched him like  a hawk.
> He had lost his hearing from all the heavy equipment noise, or at least that is what we were told.
> ...


The dog in the unit above us for our week last year must have saved 10,000 lives!


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## vail (Jun 6, 2021)

Norcal5 said:


> The dog in the unit above us for our week last year must have saved 10,000 lives!


Funny.


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## DisneyJen (Jun 6, 2021)

ahdah said:


> I think it would be a great idea if Marriott required all dogs be registered at check-in.  Real service dog owners would not mind because they know many guests are abusing the "no pet" rules.  Once a dog was registered, they would be given a tag that would indicate the dog was a registered service dog at the resort. (like the wrist bands they ask guest to wear) Any animal not registered would be given a heavy fine and removed from the resort.  That way if you saw a dog you would know they were registered or if they did not have the tag, they could be reported. This might stop guests from slipping their pets into the resort.  It is time Marriott came up with a solution and stop ignoring dogs that they know are not service dogs.  I am not opposed to service dogs, only pets that should not be there.  My children own dogs but they do not bring them because it is against the rules.



Those of us who have service dogs have the notation added to our reservations ... be it a restaurant, hotel, VRBO, AirBnB, etc.

My service dog wears a vest, is on leash, has a service dog tag on his collar and has his own Passport. I carry the passport in my wallet at all times.

When we are on vacation my service dog wears his vest even when we are giving him his exercise/potty time off leash. He also responds to hand and vocal commands.

With that all being said I 've had the most rude encounters while staying at MVC properties. We travel around the US with my dog and it seems we only have issues with MVC.

When we were staying in December two years ago at Ocean Grande and a woman yelled and scolded me for having a dog on property. Mind you Hudson was on leash and wearing his vest.

In March of this year a non-service dog barked, nipped and chased me and my dog at Fairway Villas. That dog wasn't on leash and didn't respond to the owner's commands.

I have had people ask if they can pet my service dog. The answer is no when he is working. If he is in one of his exercise periods and not wearing his vest the answer is yes as long as I give the proper command to him.

I do take him on the pool deck, where he lays under my chair. He never goes into a community pool.


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## pedro47 (Jun 6, 2021)

DisneyJen said:


> Those of us who have service dogs have the notation added to our reservations ... be it a restaurant, hotel, VRBO, AirBnB, etc.
> 
> My service dog wears a vest, is on leash, has a service dog tag on his collar and has his own Passport. I carry the passport in my wallet at all times.
> 
> ...


DisneyJen
Thank you for your response.  Excellent.IMHO.


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## frank808 (Jun 7, 2021)

Saw another pet dog at MKO today. Seems to be happening more regularly seeing pets. Since the beginning of year I have seen more pet dogs that the previous decade combined.

Before anyone jumps at me and says how do you n ow it is not a service dog?? Yes it was a pet as it was smelling everything and trying to pee on things. I have not seen a true service dog do that. 

Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk


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## vail (Jun 7, 2021)

frank808 said:


> Saw another pet dog at MKO today. Seems to be happening more regularly seeing pets. Since the beginning of year I have seen more pet dogs that the previous decade combined.
> 
> Before anyone jumps at me and says how do you n ow it is not a service dog?? Yes it was a pet as it was smelling everything and trying to pee on things. I have not seen a true service dog do that.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk



That is why DisneyJen has to deal with rude behavior from misinformed people.
Service dogs are very well trained and do not do their business inside.
But when they have the opportunity to do so outdoors, they do sniff around like other dogs.


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## gln60 (Jun 7, 2021)

Norcal5 said:


> The dog in the unit above us for our week last year must have saved 10,000 lives!


a real non stop barker…too funny


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## WVBaker (Jun 7, 2021)

frank808 said:


> Saw another pet dog at MKO today. Seems to be happening more regularly seeing pets. Since the beginning of year I have seen more pet dogs that the previous decade combined.
> 
> Before anyone jumps at me and says how do you n ow it is not a service dog?? Yes it was a pet as it was smelling everything and trying to pee on things. I have not seen a true service dog do that.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk


You're correct, the service animal should never have displayed that behavior.

We need to understand though that the service animal and it's handler are a team and both need to be trained.

While in public, it’s the handler's responsibility to make sure the service dogs needs are met. Before going into and while in a public place, the handler needs to make very sure their service dog has had an opportunity to hydrate or relieve themselves. Service dogs will make every effort to let it's handler know. Remember, even the most highly trained service or guide dog can get sick or have an issue that the handler needs to notice the cues for.

Service dogs are so highly trained that they can typically distinguish their need and the conduct expected of them in the area they're in. They do however, need their handler's help though.


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## Pompey Family (Jun 7, 2021)

vail said:


> That is why DisneyJen has to deal with rude behavior from misinformed people.
> Service dogs are very well trained and do not do their business inside.
> But when they have the opportunity to do so outdoors, they do sniff around like other dogs.



Very true. My dog has undergone three years of twice weekly training and passed an intensive two day assessment test, she is incredibly well behaved and docile however she is still a dog. She's a pointer and as such is obsessed with sniffing, it's in her DNA and no amount of training would rid her of it and why would anyone want to? Do we want dogs or robots?

There is a lot of assumption surrounding service dogs and some people evidently have huge expectations of them, often too much. A service dog should be trained to perform the role required of its owner. It should be good natured, not aggressive to other animals or people. It should be unobtrusive and not solicit attention. It should be identifiable by the wearing of a vest and should be on a lead other than when it's not working.

Service dogs are not infallible. Sometimes they make mistakes, sometimes their natural instinct takes over, put a squirrel in the line of sight of my dog and it's as if all her training has gone out of the window, go past a bird and she will often 'point', a trait which has been instilled over generations of breeding and one that cannot simply be trained out. On the whole it should be easy to determine a service dog and a non service dog however it's worth bearing in mind that sometimes they don't always behave as some expect them to.


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## frank808 (Jun 7, 2021)

vail said:


> That is why DisneyJen has to deal with rude behavior from misinformed people.
> Service dogs are very well trained and do not do their business inside.
> But when they have the opportunity to do so outdoors, they do sniff around like other dogs.


I guess you could call the open air lobby outside. In my experience if "service animal" is trying to pee on the potted plants and columns, it is not a service animal. 

Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk


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## TUGBrian (Jul 11, 2021)

old thread, but likely the most visible/popular one on the topic...

I saw this on facebook a short time ago, seems like an absolutely brilliant idea for owners to be able to register their animals and provide proof of the service/training/etc without any muss or fuss!


well done HICV


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## tschwa2 (Jul 11, 2021)

TUGBrian said:


> old thread, but likely the most visible/popular one on the topic...
> 
> I saw this on facebook a short time ago, seems like an absolutely brilliant idea for owners to be able to register their animals and provide proof of the service/training/etc without any muss or fuss!
> 
> ...



Except there are already several reports of resorts not following their own requirement to have the dog present and aren't even asking the questions allowed by the ADA.


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## CPNY (Jul 11, 2021)

Is Bob Barker allows at an MVC property? He is a Barker after all. I’d assume not.


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## kds4 (Jul 13, 2021)

CPNY said:


> Is Bob Barker allows at an MVC property? He is a Barker after all. I’d assume not.



Depending on the cleaning fee, they might ... if the price is right.


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## Superchief (Jan 6, 2022)

This is the current statement regarding pet policy at Surfwatch. The wording appears to be a little stronger than what I recall previously. This was on the 'Resort Status' page, but I think should be included in all the 'welcome to the resort' emails because not everyone opens the resort status link. I also think a lot of people would think their 'emotional support' dogs would be allowed.

_Service animals that perform work or tasks are welcome at this resort, but family pets are not permitted. Bringing a pet to the resort will result in a room recovery fee. In the event we discover that you have brought a pet to the resort, you will be charged a room recovery fee in the amount of $500 per pet and you will be asked to take your pet to a local, third-party boarding facility.

Please be aware that in some locations, misrepresenting a pet as a service animal is a misdemeanor and will result in a monetary penalty and/or imprisonment._


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## jme (Jan 6, 2022)

AWESOME!!!!
I hope it's enforced, and that word gets around....
I'm thoroughly disgusted and tired of the practice of certain entitled guests to blatantly disregard 
the STRONG feelings and preferences of others, not to mention the stated policies. 
I would love to be a fly on the wall when the violation happens .....unless flies are not allowed either......


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## Superchief (Jan 6, 2022)

It will be interesting to see how many dogs there are when I'm there for four weeks. I saw a lot of dogs last year when I was there, and most acted more like pets than working animals.


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## SueDonJ (Jan 6, 2022)

Superchief said:


> This is the current statement regarding pet policy at Surfwatch. The wording appears to be a little stronger than what I recall previously. This was on the 'Resort Status' page, but I think should be included in all the 'welcome to the resort' emails because not everyone opens the resort status link. I also think a lot of people would think their 'emotional support' dogs would be allowed.
> 
> _Service animals that perform work or tasks are welcome at this resort, but family pets are not permitted. Bringing a pet to the resort will result in a room recovery fee. In the event we discover that you have brought a pet to the resort, you will be charged a room recovery fee in the amount of $500 per pet and you will be asked to take your pet to a local, third-party boarding facility.
> 
> Please be aware that in some locations, misrepresenting a pet as a service animal is a misdemeanor and will result in a monetary penalty and/or imprisonment._



I think if they expect this to have any teeth, they need to be much more clear about what makes a "service animal." The ADA makes it perfectly clear that only animals which provide a trained service for persons with disabilities are legitimate. The way this statement reads, though, anybody could make the claim that their "emotional support animal" performs work or tasks - and we already know that too many resorts refuse to enforce strict rules that have been in place forever.


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## Superchief (Jan 6, 2022)

SueDonJ said:


> I think if they expect this to have any teeth, they need to be much more clear about what makes a "service animal." The ADA makes it perfectly clear that only animals which provide a trained service for persons with disabilities are legitimate. The way this statement reads, though, anybody could make the claim that their "emotional support animal" performs work or tasks - and we already know that too many resorts refuse to enforce strict rules that have been in place forever.


I also suggest that they require people to sign a form at check-in to indicate they aren't traveling with a pet, and the pet must be present if it is a service animal. That should greatly reduce the number of offenders.


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## ljmiii (Jan 6, 2022)

Superchief said:


> I also suggest that they require people to sign a form at check-in to indicate they aren't traveling with a pet, and the pet must be present if it is a service animal. That should greatly reduce the number of offenders.


I'm pretty sure requiring the person with disabilities and their service animal to be present at check-in when other guests need not is an ADA violation.


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## wjappraise (Jan 6, 2022)

ljmiii said:


> I'm pretty sure requiring the person with disabilities and their service animal to be present at check-in when other guests need not is an ADA violation.



How is that a violation? ADA is not a “just take their word for it” act. It’s entirely within bounds to expect proof is given. 

The abuses of pets being brought to no pet resorts is out of control. I applaud any and all attempts to rein in this abuse.


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## tschwa2 (Jan 6, 2022)

ljmiii said:


> I'm pretty sure requiring the person with disabilities and their service animal to be present at check-in when other guests need not is an ADA violation.


I agree but a simple form could be included in the check in process.
Are you or any of your guests traveling with a service animal Y N
Is the dog a service animal required because of a disability Y N
What work or task has the dog been trained to perform ____________________________________
Include a quick definition of a service animal and the fact that ESA aren't considered service animals.  Mention the fee which will be charged if a non service animal is found, etc.  Have them initial in each spot and then sign at the bottom.


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## tschwa2 (Jan 6, 2022)

wjappraise said:


> How is that a violation? ADA is not a “just take their word for it” act. It’s entirely within bounds to expect proof is given.
> 
> The abuses of pets being brought to no pet resorts is out of control. I applaud any and all attempts to rein in this abuse.


ADA was designed as a take my word for it and requiring proof actually was the only part of the law that could result in a huge fine for the business.


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## dioxide45 (Jan 6, 2022)

People who are abusing the policy already know what to say if asked about their animal. The biggest problem is that the resort either doesn't know the animal is there (people sneak them in), the resort doesn't ask the questions or simply doesn't enforce the policy at all. I don't really expect anything to change. Changing the wording in welcome emails won't change anything until people bringing pets are challenged by the resort on if the animal they have is pet or service animal.

People certainly have the things that they get worked up about. For me, pets at the resort don't bother me that much. I see them, I might smile to myself and think about this thread, but move on with my vacation. I saw one walking by the pool when I was talking with @dougp26364 at Ocean Pointe. It was quite clear that it was probably a pet and not a trained service animal. But did it really negatively impact my vacation? Not really. I do understand that some people have bad reactions if a pet has been in a room before them. For me, it would only really bother me if I let it bother me. Thinking about the pot thread, that is something that has negatively impacted multiple timeshare stays we have been on. For other people, they probably don't care about pot smokers around the resort.


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## tschwa2 (Jan 6, 2022)

dioxide45 said:


> People who are abusing the policy already know what to say if asked about their animal. The biggest problem is that the resort either doesn't know the animal is there (people sneak them in), the resort doesn't ask the questions or simply doesn't enforce the policy at all. I don't really expect anything to change. Changing the wording in welcome emails won't change anything until people bringing pets are challenged by the resort on if the animal they have is pet or service animal.
> 
> People certainly have the things that they get worked up about. For me, pets at the resort don't bother me that much. I see them, I might smile to myself and think about this thread, but move on with my vacation. I saw one walking by the pool when I was talking with @dougp26364 at Ocean Pointe. It was quite clear that it was probably a pet and not a trained service animal. But did it really negatively impact my vacation? Not really. It would only really bother me if I let it bother me. Thinking about the pot thread, that is something that has negatively impacted multiple timeshare stays we have been on. For other people, they probably don't care about pot smokers around the resort.


I think the people know what to say but having them sign may make them a little more hesitant.  I think most of the time they probably don't have to lie, they just try to hide the pet and only lie if they get caught and confronted which is probably less than 1/3 of the time.


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## dioxide45 (Jan 6, 2022)

tschwa2 said:


> I think the people know what to say but having them sign may make them a little more hesitant.  I think most of the time they probably don't have to lie, they just try to hide the pet and only lie if they get caught and confronted which is probably less than 1/3 of the time.


The problem is, if the pet is sitting in the car while they are checking in they will sign the form and deal with the consequences later, if they are even challenged.


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## tschwa2 (Jan 6, 2022)

dioxide45 said:


> The problem is, if the pet is sitting in the car while they are checking in they will sign the form and deal with the consequences later, if they are even challenged.


but they will either say no, there is no service dog and if they are challenged later it could come with the $500 cleaning fee automatically added that they would have to fight off or they would have to go on record with a specific task the dog does which may deter the less hard core cheaters.


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## pedro47 (Jan 6, 2022)

One clue it is a pet and not a sevice animal. A trained service animal will not bark at a stranger.


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## VacationForever (Jan 6, 2022)

pedro47 said:


> One clue it is a pet and not a sevice animal. A trained service animal will not bark at a stranger.


Is the reverse true if the animal does not bark?  If a dog does not bark, sits quietly by the handler, how can we tell if it is a service dog or a pet? Would people be bothered by the presence of such an animal?


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## bazzap (Jan 6, 2022)

VacationForever said:


> Is the reverse true if the animal does not bark?  If a dog does not bark, sits quietly by the handler, how can we tell if it is a service dog or a pet? Would people be bothered by the presence of such an animal?


Yes


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## VacationForever (Jan 6, 2022)

bazzap said:


> Yes


Why?  If the dog appears to be service dog and we cannot verify it one way or the other, why should one be bothered?  If I have a dog allergy, then service dogs are also going to be a problem for me.  My point is that if the animal passes the sniff test, we cannot really challenge the owner as to whether it is a service dog or not.


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## bazzap (Jan 6, 2022)

VacationForever said:


> Why?  If the dog appears to be service dog and we cannot verify it one way or the other, why should one be bothered?  If I have a dog allergy, then service dogs are also going to be a problem for me.  My point is that if the animal passes the sniff test, we cannot really challenge the owner as to whether it is a service dog or not.


Why? Because I bought into a Marriott Vacation Club agreeing to HOPA rules which do not allow pets (or smoking or over occupancy etc)
All very reasonable rules, which I expect to be followed by all of us as owners and enforced if they are not.


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## Superchief (Jan 6, 2022)

dioxide45 said:


> Thinking about the pot thread, that is something that has negatively impacted multiple timeshare stays we have been on. For other people, they probably don't care about pot smokers around the resort.


Then you won't mind if I bring my pit to help enforce the no pot smoking rules. She would do a great 'service'!


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## vail (Jan 6, 2022)

dioxide45 said:


> The problem is, if the pet is sitting in the car while they are checking in they will sign the form and deal with the consequences later, if they are even challenged.


A real service dog goes and does the check in while the owner waits in the car.


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## VacationForever (Jan 6, 2022)

bazzap said:


> Why? Because I bought into a Marriott Vacation Club agreeing to HOPA rules which do not allow pets (or smoking or over occupancy etc)
> All very reasonable rules, which I expect to be followed by all of us as owners and enforced if they are not.


I am not advocating people bring pets to the resort.  It is just that we will never really know whether a well-behaved dog is a service dog or a pet, so why get worked up over it?  Now, if it is a barking or out of control dog, I normally get pissed off.


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## DRH90277 (Jan 6, 2022)

With respect to Pets - Timeshare users should comply with the same laws that apply to guests at the Marriott "W" brand in a city center.  Why would we expect anything less?  

I just called a favorite Marriott beach timeshare and was informed that "service animals" are screened and permitted if they pass the screening.  If the animal doesn't meet the criteria, they refer them to a local animal boarding facility.  The Marriott person was very conversant on the topic and procedures.  The answer was no for "emotional support animals."

I question the need for a petition unless there is evidence of a problem and/or non-compliance with resort policy.  Did someone see a problem at a Marriott timeshare resort?  Perhaps, the resort could spray paint the tail red so we would know it had passed the test.  

Watch for the Red tails......


Smoking is either outlawed or severely restricted to certain areas at the resorts.  

Use of pot should be absolutely prohibited on the entire resort.  That stuff does cause respiratory problems for many.


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## dioxide45 (Jan 6, 2022)

DRH90277 said:


> With respect to Pets - Timeshare users should comply with the same laws that apply to guests at the Marriott "W" brand in a city center.  Why would we expect anything less?
> 
> I just called a favorite Marriott beach timeshare and was informed that "service animals" are screened and permitted if they pass the screening.  If the animal doesn't meet the criteria, they refer them to a local animal boarding facility.  The Marriott person was very conversant on the topic and procedures.  The answer was no for "emotional support animals."
> 
> ...


What beach resort are you referring to? What type of screening do they do? They are only permitted to ask the owner two questions.


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## vail (Jan 6, 2022)

My tail was spray painted red on my last visit and I had no idea why?


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## DRH90277 (Jan 6, 2022)

The resort personnel are better at conveying this than I, so just call a front desk and ask.  They did mention two questions - one was about determining whether it was a service animal versus an emotional support animal.  I think the second was about what services the animal provided.  I also inquired about what animals were permitted and it seems limited to dogs and horses.  This was not an exhaustive inquiry but was enough for me.


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## wjappraise (Jan 6, 2022)

From ADA. 

“This publication provides guidance on the term “service animal” and the service animal provisions in the Department’s regulations.

Beginning on March 15, 2011, only dogs are recognized as service animals under titles II and III of the ADA.
A service animal is a dog that is individually trained to do work or perform tasks for a person with a disability.
Generally, title II and title III entities must permit service animals to accompany people with disabilities in all areas where members of the public are allowed to go.
How “Service Animal” Is Defined

Service animals are defined as dogs that are individually trained to do work or perform tasks for people with disabilities. Examples of such work or tasks include guiding people who are blind, alerting people who are deaf, pulling a wheelchair, alerting and protecting a person who is having a seizure, reminding a person with mental illness to take prescribed medications, calming a person with Post Traumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD) during an anxiety attack, or performing other duties. Service animals are working animals, not pets. The work or task a dog has been trained to provide must be directly related to the person’s disability. Dogs whose sole function is to provide comfort or emotional support do not qualify as service animals under the ADA.

This definition does not affect or limit the broader definition of “assistance animal” under the Fair Housing Act or the broader definition of “service animal” under the Air Carrier Access Act.

Some State and local laws also define service animal more broadly than the ADA does. Information about such laws can be obtained from the relevant State attorney general’s office.” 

Unfortunately I believe those of us opposed to the blatant abuses being foisted on us, are doomed to lose. This past week at a layover at Chicago Midway, I felt like I was at a bus station in a third world country. Dogs everywhere. Barking, growling, fighting, howling, defecating. All while under the care of completely ambulatory, and sighted 20 to 30 year old fliers. That’s the future. Welcome to Cartagena. It’s become a badge of honor for those fliers to game the system and bring the high priced pedigree dog on vacation with them. 

I don’t see rational thought coming out victorious here. I feel bad for the truly disabled individual reliant on a dog to “see” or “hear” for them, as they are lumped in with the selfish actions of deluded pet owners.


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## vail (Jan 6, 2022)

DRH90277 said:


> .  I also inquired about what animals were permitted and it seems limited to dogs and horses.


Next thing you know Secretariat will be staying next door to me?


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## wjappraise (Jan 6, 2022)

vail said:


> Next thing you know Secretariat will be staying next door to me?



The floor above you … clop clop.


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## vail (Jan 6, 2022)

wjappraise said:


> The floor above you … clop clop.


and I always thought those were little children running around?


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## MrockStar (Jan 6, 2022)

VacationForever said:


> Is the reverse true if the animal does not bark?  If a dog does not bark, sits quietly by the handler, how can we tell if it is a service dog or a pet? Would people be bothered by the presence of such an animal?


Not as much. I like peace and quiet at night and early morning.


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## MrockStar (Jan 6, 2022)

I also love dogs we have one but would never dream of taking it on vacation to our time share.


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## DRH90277 (Jan 6, 2022)

MrockStar said:


> I also love dogs we have one but would never dream of taking it on vacation to our time share.



I only wish I could meet some of you to discuss this more thoroughly.  Perhaps, someone could pick a resort and we could bring our horses and red-tailed dogs.  We could test the front desk screening process and then get people to sign petitions.


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## dioxide45 (Jan 6, 2022)

I beleive it was only miniature horses?


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## MrockStar (Jan 6, 2022)

What about a trained potbelly pig. They are very smart.


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## Fasttr (Jan 6, 2022)

MrockStar said:


> What about a trained potbelly pig. They are very smart.


mmmmm….bacon


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## kpeiper (Jan 7, 2022)

Steve Fatula said:


> They do, but if there's 95% less dogs at a resort, that's 95% less chance it will affect me. It ruins my vacation, I break out in hives all over and swell up. My feet have been concave out before, very painful. If the animal was known and a cleaning fee applied that allows for appropriate cleaning for animals, then, perhaps it wouldn't impact me.
> 
> That being said, I will take the pain, itching, and vacation ruin if indeed an animal was in the room that was necessary. I initially considered trying to dig out some pictures, but too gross.



Properly trained service dogs are also less likely to be up on furniture, sleep on the bed and run around the condo. I watched a woman with her faux service pit bull in its mail order harness at a theme park barking at kids, jumping up on the bench, smelling people as they walked by.... it had none of the behaviors of a well trained working dog. Abuse. The law is broken and too many people feel entitled.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## bazzap (Jan 7, 2022)

VacationForever said:


> I am not advocating people bring pets to the resort.  It is just that we will never really know whether a well-behaved dog is a service dog or a pet, so why get worked up over it?  Now, if it is a barking or out of control dog, I normally get pissed off.


I agree there is no point in anyone getting worked up over it, but that doesn’t mean that resorts should not enforce the rules or that owners shouldn’t be totally justified in pursuing the issue with resort management if they believe the rules may be broken.
Even well behaved pets are highly unlikely to behave like service dogs through the course of any stay and if they are pets they will not be identified to the resort on check in so the units will not receive the full clean necessary on check out to protect the next owner/guest arrivals.
This seems to be an exclusively US resort centric issue though, The problem just doesn’t seem to exist in Caribbean, European or Asian MVC resorts?


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## Steve Fatula (Jan 7, 2022)

kpeiper said:


> The law is broken and too many people feel entitled.



Yep, I do feel entitled too... To a vacation free of hives and allergies due to illegal pets!


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## Superchief (Jan 7, 2022)

kpeiper said:


> Properly trained service dogs are also less likely to be up on furniture, sleep on the bed and run around the condo. I watched a woman with her faux service pit bull in its mail order harness at a theme park barking at kids, jumping up on the bench, smelling people as they walked by.... it had none of the behaviors of a well trained working dog. Abuse. The law is broken and too many people feel entitled.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Pits can be stubborn and difficult to train. We find them to be aggressively affectionate. They always want to be close and lick you. Ours all think they are lap dogs, even our 75 lb. female. I've never seen dogs that sit upright on your lap. We love these dogs but would never expect to be able to take them to a hotel or timeshare. 

As an owner, I don't think that dogs should be allowed in timeshares. Even if most are clean and well behaved, they would require additional housekeeping and maintenance and impact the vacation enjoyment of other people.


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## ljmiii (Jan 7, 2022)

wjappraise said:


> How is that a violation? ADA is not a “just take their word for it” act. It’s entirely within bounds to expect proof is given.


Actually, no. Places of public accommodation may not require proof of disability, must make accommodations to accept disabled guests, must provide means for disabled guests to make reservations and check in at a place of lodging during the same hours and in the same manner as others, etc., etc.


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## ocdb8r (Jan 7, 2022)

bazzap said:


> This seems to be an exclusively US resort centric issue though, The problem just doesn’t seem to exist in Caribbean, European or Asian MVC resorts?



I have seen dogs at the Aruba resorts several times (I have never had an issue to pursue whether they were likely service dogs or not).

Not MVC, but HGVC in Vilamoura, Portugal shares inventory with the Hilton hotel.  The latter allows dogs for a small fee (while HGVC reservations do not  - however, I know for a fact there is no inventory segregation and rooms are used interchangeably).  At this resort, I don't see it posing much of an issue though as rooms are completely hard floors and cleaned daily.


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## wjappraise (Jan 7, 2022)

ljmiii said:


> Actually, no. Places of public accommodation may not require proof of disability, must make accommodations to accept disabled guests, must provide means for disabled guests to make reservations and check in at a place of lodging during the same hours and in the same manner as others, etc., etc.



True. 

But the abuses of those not truly disabled, but wanting to travel with Fido have become too numerous to be ignored. Unfortunately, I don’t see rational thought ever being applied to this debacle. Welcome to your third world country resort. Dogs everywhere.


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## VacationForever (Jan 7, 2022)

The issue is that the ADA "protection" results in guests being able to lie about their pets being service dogs.  In fact, ADA says that service dogs do not need a service dog harness or any kind of service dog certification.  Seeing a dog in service dog harness or otherwise means nothing.  I don't even know if law enforcement is allowed to challenge whether it is a real service dog or not, even though it is a misdemeanor to lie.  I no longer let dogs at resorts bother me and thank goodness I am not allergic to dogs. 

The first time I came across a fake service dog was at Depoe Bay, OR in a Worldmark property about 7 years ago.  We checked in to a ground floor room and out of our living room was a view of the ocean/bay, separated by a grass patch and we saw a dog run loose, defecating and the handler did not pick up the "goods".  We immediately called the front desk who calmly said that guests were allowed to bring service dogs and there was nothing that they could do about it.  During that stay, we must have seen at least 5 fake service dogs.  Thank goodness there was an issue with our room and an hour after we checked in, they moved us upstairs to a corner room with an amazing view and no more getting worked up over nuisance dogs.


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## bazzap (Jan 7, 2022)

ocdb8r said:


> I have seen dogs at the Aruba resorts several times (I have never had an issue to pursue whether they were likely service dogs or not).
> 
> Not MVC, but HGVC in Vilamoura, Portugal shares inventory with the Hilton hotel.  The latter allows dogs for a small fee (while HGVC reservations do not  - however, I know for a fact there is no inventory segregation and rooms are used interchangeably).  At this resort, I don't see it posing much of an issue though as rooms are completely hard floors and cleaned daily.


OK, my MVC Caribbean experience is primarily St Kitts and St Thomas.
In Europe, we visit all the MVC resorts over many years and I have only seen one pet dog in Majorca which the management spoke to the owners about and they left the resort.
(I have not actually seen a service dog in any of these resorts, although I am sure they must have been there on some of our trips)


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## pedro47 (Jan 7, 2022)

VacationForever said:


> Why?  If the dog appears to be service dog and we cannot verify it one way or the other, why should one be bothered?  If I have a dog allergy, then service dogs are also going to be a problem for me.  My point is that if the animal passes the sniff test, we cannot really challenge the owner as to whether it is a service dog or not.


A trained service dog will laid at the feet of his owner and will not bark or moved if a stanger or another animal would walk by.
Also, most service dog will wear his service harness  tag around his body.
A trained service dog will not run loose around into the woods or ocean without his owner.
A trained service dog is taught to always walk beside his owner.
Finally, a trained service dog will sleep in his own bed cushion by his owner.


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## VacationForever (Jan 7, 2022)

pedro47 said:


> A trained service dog will laid at the feet of his owner and will not bark or moved if a stanger or another animal would walk by.
> Also, most service dog will wear his service harness  tag around his body.
> A trained service dog will not run loose around into the woods or ocean without his owner.
> A trained service dog is taught to always walk beside his owner.
> Finally, a trained service dog will sleep in his own bed cushion by his owner.


It is necessary but not sufficient.  I know a pet who meets all 5 criteria that you have listed.  BTW, I have never owned a dog and I am probably less tolerant of dogs than most because I was chased and almost attacked by a vicious dog, while making my daily trek through a residential estate to school after getting off the bus.  As a result, I have developed a fear of large dogs.


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## BJRSanDiego (Jan 7, 2022)

wjappraise said:


> From ADA.
> 
> “This publication provides guidance on the term “service animal” and the service animal provisions in the Department’s regulations.
> 
> ...


Thanks for posting this. It is a pretty clear document.

In addition to the above, in doing some Google searches a while back, I picked up that if a person requires a service animal, then the animal needs to be with them - - I think that this precludes a person from leaving the dog in the unit while they are off premises.  Also, I read that the earliest training should start is 6 months and that it takes at least six months to complete the training.  So, if a dog is under about 1 year old, it probably is NOT a service dog.  Service dogs are trained not to bark at other people or just because they are lonely.  Plus service dogs are, IIRC, trained to walk by the owner's side (if ambulatory) and NOT pull the owner.  

I've seen a lot of scammers - - dogs left on a balcony to bark while the owner is away.  Dogs barking in units.  Puppies attempted to being pawned off a service dog, and owners struggling against a dog that is pulling them, etc.  I think that a reasonable person could probably categorize a dog into 3 different categories:  (1) appears to be a real service dog (no barking, stays by side of owner, doesn't go out exploring on its own), (2) Uncertain, and (3) definitely not a service dog (barking, territory marking, pulling leash, left alone in unit, greeting strangers on its own).  I would love it, if the Federal gov't. would issue some sort of document or tag to identify true service dogs.  Probably no more restrictive than needing to carry Covid documentation (moderator: this is not meant to be a political statement but is offered as a comparison and perhaps a benchmark. Readers: please don't turn this into more than it is.)


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## pedro47 (Jan 7, 2022)

BJRSanDiego said:


> Thanks for posting this. It is a pretty clear document.
> 
> In addition to the above, in doing some Google searches a while back, I picked up that if a person requires a service animal, then the animal needs to be with them - - I think that this precludes a person from leaving the dog in the unit while they are off premises.  Also, I read that the earliest training should start is 6 months and that it takes at least six months to complete the training.  So, if a dog is under about 1 year old, it probably is NOT a service dog.  Service dogs are trained not to bark at other people or just because they are lonely.  Plus service dogs are, IIRC, trained to walk by the owner's side (if ambulatory) and NOT pull the owner.
> 
> I've seen a lot of scammers - - dogs left on a balcony to bark while the owner is away.  Dogs barking in units.  Puppies attempted to being pawned off a service dog, and owners struggling against a dog that is pulling them, etc.  I think that a reasonable person could probably categorize a dog into 3 different categories:  (1) appears to be a real service dog (no barking, stays by side of owner, doesn't go out exploring on its own), (2) Uncertain, and (3) definitely not a service dog (barking, territory marking, pulling leash, left alone in unit, greeting strangers on its own).  I would love it, if the Federal gov't. would issue some sort of document or tag to identify true service dogs.  Probably no more restrictive than needing to carry Covid documentation (moderator: this is not meant to be a political statement but is offered as a comparison and perhaps a benchmark. Readers: please don't turn this into more than it is.)


Excellent post.


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## Steve Fatula (Jan 7, 2022)

BJRSanDiego said:


> I think that this precludes a person from leaving the dog in the unit while they are off premises.



So, while you cannot prevent people from misrepresenting their pets as service animals, what you can do is make a stink about it if a pet becomes troublesome. Perfectly ok to complain if you hear a pet endlessly barking. And the resort can do something about it if they desire to.


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## PamMo (Jan 7, 2022)

Not sure if it cuts down on fraudulent service dogs, but Shadow Ridge has these signs prominently posted in the lobby.


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## Fasttr (Jan 7, 2022)

PamMo said:


> Not sure if it cuts down on fraudulent service dogs, but Shadow Ridge has these signs prominently posted in the lobby. View attachment 44899


Kudos to Shadow Ridge!!!


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## dioxide45 (Jan 7, 2022)

Fasttr said:


> Kudos to Shadow Ridge!!!


But do they enforce it?


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## Fasttr (Jan 7, 2022)

dioxide45 said:


> But do they enforce it?


Take the win Man…take the win.  ;-)


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## Steve Fatula (Jan 7, 2022)

dioxide45 said:


> But do they enforce it?



Hopefully, but that would make me complain and insist they do something even more that if they didn't have such a sign. That would say to me, we're here to help and I would expect them to do so.


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## PamMo (Jan 7, 2022)

dioxide45 said:


> But do they enforce it?



I haven’t seen or heard any dogs in the 10 days we’ve been here. Quite the opposite of our stay in a Sedona timeshare last month.


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## wjappraise (Jan 7, 2022)

I’m always uneasy with any reference to the “penal code”.


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## aka Julie (Jan 7, 2022)

PamMo said:


> Not sure if it cuts down on fraudulent service dogs, but Shadow Ridge has these signs prominently posted in the lobby. View attachment 44899



Glad to see this.

About 8 years ago we were at Shadowridge and could see a small white dog running out on the golf course from a ground floor unit to chase the geese.  Happened many times.


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## pedro47 (Jan 8, 2022)

PamMo said:


> Not sure if it cuts down on fraudulent service dogs, but Shadow Ridge has these signs prominently posted in the lobby. View attachment 44899


This resort has a posted sign on its property about service animals, emotional support animals, and therapy animals. Finally,  it gives guests, owners and visitors the legal status of the California's Penal Code 367.7 (a).

It is liked a no trespassing sign. IMHO.


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## vail (Jan 8, 2022)

aka Julie said:


> Glad to see this.
> 
> About 8 years ago we were at Shadowridge and could see a small white dog running out on the golf course from a ground floor unit to chase the geese.  Happened many times.


Did it catch any?
If not it was not a service dog.


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## pedro47 (Jan 8, 2022)

aka Julie said:


> Glad to see this.
> 
> About 8 years ago we were at Shadowridge and could see a small white dog running out on the golf course from a ground floor unit to chase the geese.  Happened many times.


Believe me this was not a "trained service animal. "


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## vail (Jan 8, 2022)

pedro47 said:


> Believe me this was not a "trained service animal. "


I will assume than, that it did not catch any?


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## dioxide45 (Jan 8, 2022)

At DSVI I saw kids running out on the golf course chasing geese. Are they not trained?


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## Fasttr (Jan 8, 2022)

dioxide45 said:


> At DSVI I saw kids running out on the golf course chasing geese. Are they not trained?


It’s always good to strive for a birdie on the golf course.


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## vail (Jan 8, 2022)

dioxide45 said:


> At DSVI I saw kids running out on the golf course chasing geese. Are they not trained?


Same question?
Did they catch any?
If not they are not trained.....


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## Foggy1 (Jan 9, 2022)

During our 3+ weeks stay at Desert Springs I in Oct-Nov, I saw 3 different non-Service animals on property.  There was also a multiple evening “barker” across the fairway in Villas II. 

Yesterday I received my Pre-Arrival email for my up coming stay in a couple of weeks.  The following is from that email:

*“Service Animal Policy*
_Service animals that perform work or tasks are welcome at the resort, but family pets are not permitted. Bringing a pet to the will result in a Room Recovery Fee. In the event we discover that you have brought a pet to the resort, you will be charged a Room Recovery Fee in the amount of $500 per pet, and you will be asked to take your pet to a local, third-party boarding facility.

Please be aware that in some locations, misrepresenting a pet as a service animal is a misdemeanor and will result in a monetary penalty and/or imprisonment.”_

This is new since last October.  Maybe they are getting enough complaints that more control may be coming….only if they follow through with enforcement.


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## DRH90277 (Jan 9, 2022)

Service Animal awareness - This forum is a good thing and has increased the awareness of a problem.  More than that, the ground rules pertaining to service animals have been communicated to others.  I think all of us are more aware of the signs of abuse and will be more apt to complain to timeshare personnel.  

Thank you


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## VacationForever (Jan 9, 2022)

We arrived yesterday and saw a fake service dog.  This morning we saw another one.  We simply mumbled to one another "fake service dog".


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## pedro47 (Jan 9, 2022)

dioxide45 said:


> At DSVI I saw kids running out on the golf course chasing geese. Are they not trained?


Maybe the parents needs to take a course in child rearing or telling their kids not to chase wild geese.
Those children could have been stroke by a golf ball, a golf cart or they could have run into a golf pond/lake.


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## aka Julie (Jan 9, 2022)

The thing is that this is an added expense for owners in our MF for the extra cleaning after a “service animal” has been in a unit.  That is if the guests advise they have a service animal. They are not charged, we as owners bear the cost.


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## aka Julie (Jan 9, 2022)

pedro47 said:


> Maybe the parents needs to take a course in child rearing or telll their kids not to chase wild geese.
> Those children could have been stroke by a golf ball, a golf cart or they could have run into a golf pond/lake.


Some parents figure they’re on vacation and don’t care what their kids are doing.  Same as some kids gone wild on cruise ships.


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## Foggy1 (Jan 9, 2022)

pedro47 said:


> Maybe the parents needs to take a course in child rearing or telll their kids not to chase wild geese.
> Those children could have been stroke by a golf ball, a golf cart or they could have run into a golf pond/lake.





aka Julie said:


> Some parents figure they’re on vacation and don’t care what their kids are doing.  Same as some kids gone wild on cruise ships.


You are assuming that the parents know better..or care!


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## VacationForever (Jan 9, 2022)

aka Julie said:


> The thing is that this is an added expense for owners in our MF for the extra cleaning after a “service animal” has been in a unit.  That is if the guests advise they have a service animal. They are not charged, we as owners bear the cost.


I don't believe guests with service animals are advised to inform front desk or housekeeping to ensure extra cleaning, or do the resorts even bother to do "extra" cleaning after service dogs check out.


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## dioxide45 (Jan 9, 2022)

VacationForever said:


> I don't believe guests with service animals are advised to inform front desk or housekeeping to ensure extra cleaning, or do the resorts even bother to do "extra" cleaning after service dogs check out.


Agree. I highly doubt any extra cleaning is really done at any time.


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## wjappraise (Jan 9, 2022)

dioxide45 said:


> Agree. I highly doubt any extra cleaning is really done at any time.



So … it will take a medical emergency for an allergic owner and a lawsuit for the resorts to put teeth in the service dog abuse solution (pun intended).


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## VacationForever (Jan 9, 2022)

wjappraise said:


> So … it will take a medical emergency for an allergic owner and a lawsuit for the resorts to put teeth in the service dog abuse solution (pun intended).


Anyone living with a serious dog allergy would typically carry an Epipen and use it without much fuss.  I have a friend with serious allergies, goes through 2 Epipens a month - just part of staying alive.  Usually people with animal type allergies get sneezes or very itchy skin, and I am one of them.  I take tier 2 anti-histamine medication daily to keep me comfortable, otherwise I would itch to death, literally.  Animal allergies are usually quite unlike nut allergies.

Service dogs or fake service dogs get the same room cleaning regimen, nothing needs to be noted by the resort.  A lawsuit will be about room cleaning as opposed to real vs. fake service dogs.


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## Steve Fatula (Jan 9, 2022)

Yeah, I likely wouldn't die from dog but will be extremely unhappy and covered in hives (under the skin form so hugely swollen and hard to even walk without assistance). I will end up at urgent care center. I agree any lawsuit will be about cleaning. That being said, I'll know immediately upon checkin if previous person staying there had a dog there. I'll know within 0-30 minutes so I presume they could move me if needed, and if they can't, they can do that extra cleaning!


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## bazzap (Jan 9, 2022)

You could certainly mitigate the risk of allergy reaction by taking medication, but why on earth should you need to?
There should be no risk from pets having stayed in the accommodation, as MVC must be pressured into enforcing the “no pet” rule.
Any risk from service dogs having stayed in the accommodation should be kept to an absolute minimum, as MVC should be undertaking a more more rigorous cleaning routine whenever they do.
Do MVC fulfil these obligations now? Clearly not in all cases, but they certainly do in some and only by highlighting their shortfalls to them will they be “encouraged” into doing so more consistently.


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## kds4 (Jan 9, 2022)

You can find out more about the current state of U.S. laws regarding 'service animals' and the Americans With Disabilities Act (ADA) at https://www.ada.gov/regs2010/service_animal_qa.html. The immediate action that every MVCI property could and should be taking on this issue is to ask every guest at check-in if anyone in their party is traveling with a service animal and if so, the following 2 questions they are legally authorized to ask under the ADA:

(1) is the dog (or other animal) a service animal required because of a disability?
(2) what work or task has the dog (or other animal) been trained to perform?

The benefits of this approach are:

(1) Resort management will be more aware of the number of animals that are on property (including which units declared animals are occupying).
(2) Guests with legitimate service animals are more likely to answer the 2 questions honestly than those without legitimate service animals.
(3) Guests found with undeclared animals can be asked to depart with a cleaning fee imposed unless they are able and willing to answer the 2 ADA approved 'check-in' questions above.


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## Steve Fatula (Jan 9, 2022)

Well, I am always at risk from pets. Perhaps I meet you for dinner, and, you had lots of contact skin and clothes before we met. Even though dog is not with you, I will react. So, to a certain extent, I for one realize it's just part of my life. Relatives are not going to get rid of their pets for me. I will deal with it if it comes up in the manner I previously said. If it was a service dog, I hold no ill will towards previous user of the villa. It's just the way it is for me.

Should I have to deal with it at resort in an ideal world, no, but it's reality for me. I still say though that any policy should be enforced, otherwise don't have the policy.

Some non MVCI resorts we have stayed at DO make all guests sign a form about any non human lifeforms that the guest may be bringing.


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## hcarman (Jan 10, 2022)

VacationForever said:


> We arrived yesterday and saw a fake service dog.  This morning we saw another one.  We simply mumbled to one another "fake service dog".


Honestly, why do you always assume fake service dog?  I work on an ADA committee and one complaint service dog owners have is just because they don’t have what is stereotyped to be a typical service dog for a typical disability doesn’t mean their dog is not legit.  In other words, they aren’t blind with a large seeing eye dog.  Some have smaller dogs to detect epilepsy.  One is a Vet with a psychiatric service animal for PTSD (not an ESA).  Many of them feel judged.  There are many different uses for service dogs these days.  I am not saying there aren’t many fakes - but there are too many people on here just assuming every dog is fake.  You can’t judge based on size, whether the owner “looks healthy”, etc.


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## wjappraise (Jan 10, 2022)

hcarman said:


> Honestly, why do you always assume fake service dog? I work on an ADA committee and one complaint service dog owners have is just because they don’t have what is stereotyped to be a typical service dog for a typical disability doesn’t mean their dog is not legit. In other words, they aren’t blind with a large seeing eye dog. Some have smaller dogs to detect epilepsy. One is a Vet with a psychiatric service animal for PTSD (not an ESA). Many of them feel judged. There are many different uses for service dogs these days. I am not saying there aren’t many fakes - but there are too many people on here just assuming every dog is fake. You can’t judge based on size, whether the owner “looks healthy”, etc.



Because the overwhelming percentage of dogs at resorts are not service dogs, they are pets being foisted on us. 









						Emotional-Support Animals Are Banned on Airplanes, but Service Dogs Can Still Fly Free
					

New rules allow trained service dogs, and only dogs, to fly free uncaged. For many people, flying with a pet just got more expensive.




					www.wsj.com


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## DRH90277 (Jan 10, 2022)

I doubt legitimate service dog owners would object to providing a permit certifying the animal is a legitimate service animal - much like a driver's license.  Then, we won't have reason to question fake service dogs.  Come on, this service animal designation is being abused.


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## BJRSanDiego (Jan 10, 2022)

DRH90277 said:


> I doubt legitimate service dog owners would object to providing a permit certifying the animal is a legitimate service animal - much like a driver's license.  Then, we won't have reason to question fake service dogs.  Come on, this service animal designation is being abused.


Good point.  My wife has mobility issues, so her doctor signed a document for the DMV in order to get a handicap placard.  Something similar could be done with doctors and/or veterinarians.  Also, most responsible pet owner bring their pet in for shots and a check up annually so perhaps that is when the owners get their "papers".  Also, if the ADA can mandate that hotels and timeshares cannot charge extra to the service dog owners, then they could also mandate that veterinarians could not charge for the certification appointment.  Just a thought.


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## wjappraise (Jan 10, 2022)

BJRSanDiego said:


> Good point. My wife has mobility issues, so her doctor signed a document for the DMV in order to get a handicap placard. Something similar could be done with doctors and/or veterinarians. Just a thought.



Perfect analogy. Imagine if anyone could use a handicap parking spot without any placard or license designation. And no one was permitted to question why they used a handicap spot. 

My recent trip to Bonnet Creek I thought I was at the Westminster Dog Show. And most of the dogs were purse dogs - ones that got carried around by their Kardashian wannabe owners. 

My grandpa used to say “I’m not a farmer, but I know cow manure when I see it”. Good ole common sense. So sad it’s gone the way of the dodo bird. 

Just my opinion.


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## dioxide45 (Jan 10, 2022)

BJRSanDiego said:


> Good point.  My wife has mobility issues, so her doctor signed a document for the DMV in order to get a handicap placard.  Something similar could be done with doctors and/or veterinarians.  Also, most responsible pet owner bring their pet in for shots and a check up annually.  Also, if the ADA can mandate that hotels and timeshares cannot charge extra to the service dog owners, then they could also mandate that veterinarians could not charge for the certification appointment.  Just a thought.


This would take an act of Congress to update the law to grant states the ability to issue such licenses or permits. Not saying it can't be done, but you know what they say about acts of Congress. Right now most discussion around ADA seems to be more business unfriendly and around electronic apps and ride share companies, rather than putting burdens on the person needing the accommodation under ADA.


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## hcarman (Jan 10, 2022)

dioxide45 said:


> This would take an act of Congress to update the law to grant states the ability to issue such licenses or permits. Not saying it can't be done, but you know what they say about acts of Congress. Right now most discussion around ADA seems to be more business unfriendly and around electronic apps and ride share companies, rather than putting burdens on the person needing the accommodation under ADA.


I would agree - this isn’t happening anytime soon.  The ADA is actually against additional burden on the disabled so it wouldn’t be anything they push for.  Furthermore, there is so much abuse with handicap placards even though they are a certification you get.


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## hcarman (Jan 10, 2022)

BJRSanDiego said:


> Good point.  My wife has mobility issues, so her doctor signed a document for the DMV in order to get a handicap placard.  Something similar could be done with doctors and/or veterinarians.  Also, most responsible pet owner bring their pet in for shots and a check up annually so perhaps that is when the owners get their "papers".  Also, if the ADA can mandate that hotels and timeshares cannot charge extra to the service dog owners, then they could also mandate that veterinarians could not charge for the certification appointment.  Just a thought.


Our vet once told us they didn’t want to be a part of certifying ESAs or service dogs if it ever came to that since they are just docs - not trainers.   And sadly there is a lot of abuse of the handicap placard as well.


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## dioxide45 (Jan 10, 2022)

hcarman said:


> Our vet once told us they didn’t want to be a part of certifying ESAs or service dogs if it ever came to that since they are just docs - not trainers.   And sadly there is a lot of abuse of the handicap placard as well.


In reality, any certification would come from two places. One from a medical professional attesting to the need for the animal and another from an animal trainer attesting to the service the animal provides. It simply won't happen.


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## gln60 (Jan 10, 2022)

Last October my wife and I were flying down to PBI on A/A and the guy sitting in front of us had a “purse“ dog hidden inside his oversized jacket…about 5 minutes after takeoff the dog appeared…stewardess came over,something was said…and that was it.


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## VacationForever (Jan 10, 2022)

hcarman said:


> Honestly, why do you always assume fake service dog?  I work on an ADA committee and one complaint service dog owners have is just because they don’t have what is stereotyped to be a typical service dog for a typical disability doesn’t mean their dog is not legit.  In other words, they aren’t blind with a large seeing eye dog.  Some have smaller dogs to detect epilepsy.  One is a Vet with a psychiatric service animal for PTSD (not an ESA).  Many of them feel judged.  There are many different uses for service dogs these days.  I am not saying there aren’t many fakes - but there are too many people on here just assuming every dog is fake.  You can’t judge based on size, whether the owner “looks healthy”, etc.


Because a reasonable person would guess that these are fake service dogs.  Here is an example today - We were at a restaurant and sat next to a table of 4 people who had a pug, wearing a service vest.  The pug was restless and kept walking around on the short leash, with one of the diners tugging on the leash to rein in the dog and this went on for the entire time.  The owner would keep giving food from his plate to the pug to keep it calm.  A service dog would sit quietly under the table.


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## hcarman (Jan 10, 2022)

VacationForever said:


> Because a reasonable person would guess that these are fake service dogs.  Here is an example today - We were at a restaurant and sat next to a table of 4 people who had a pug, wearing a service vest.  The pug was restless and kept walking around on the short leash, with one of the diners tugging on the leash to rein in the dog and this went on for the entire time.  The owner would keep giving food from his plate to the pug to keep it calm.  A service dog would sit quietly under the table.


And that may be the case in the situation you mention.  However, there are people on this site that make general comments like because an owner had a small dog it must be fake.  Or because they are seeing more dogs at properties these days they must _all _be fake.  Or because they heard a bark it must be fake.  While there are of course fakes, we all recognize that - I would also argue there are a lot more kinds of legitimate service dogs than there used to be since they are training and using them for many more things.  Most people probably have no idea what all they are being used for.  This is what I am talking about - don't immediately judge.  I have a friend with an epilepsy dog - I am sure she gets people accusing her of having a fake service dog because it is not one of the breeds people initially think of as a service dog and is probably not trained the same way as a more traditional service dog like a seeing eye dog is.  But this dog is legitimate, performs his task if needed, and could save her life one day.


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## Mlvnsmly (Jan 10, 2022)

hcarman said:


> And that may be the case in the situation you mention.  However, there are people on this site that make general comments like because an owner had a small dog it must be fake.  Or because they are seeing more dogs at properties these days they must _all _be fake.  Or because they heard a bark it must be fake.  While there are of course fakes, we all recognize that - I would also argue there are a lot more kinds of legitimate service dogs than there used to be since they are training and using them for many more things.  Most people probably have no idea what all they are being used for.  This is what I am talking about - don't immediately judge.  I have a friend with an epilepsy dog - I am sure she gets people accusing her of having a fake service dog because it is not one of the breeds people initially think of as a service dog and is probably not trained the same way as a more traditional service dog like a seeing eye dog is.  But this dog is legitimate, performs his task if needed, and could save her life one day.


Perhaps the blame should lie with those who abuse the rules.  If only legitimate service dogs were brought everywhere, nobody would think to question it.  I'm certain if I had a service animal, these people would make my blood boil.


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## bazzap (Jan 11, 2022)

Have we actually heard from Service Dog owners whether or not they would be OK providing evidence to the resort at check in that their Dog is a genuine Service Dog?
I suspect that most would be willing to do so, as they may probably be just as upset (or more so?) with those who bring pets as fake Service Dogs.
Until there is some certification process, this will always be an issue and many owners seeing a Dog out of control, approaching other guests, frequently barking, left alone…etc will quite reasonably continue to report this to the resort management and ask them to take action to stop this.


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## vail (Jan 11, 2022)

gln60 said:


> Last October my wife and I were flying down to PBI on A/A and the guy sitting in front of us had a “purse“ dog hidden inside his oversized jacket…about 5 minutes after takeoff the dog appeared…stewardess came over,something was said…and that was it.



You realize small dogs are allowed to fly on airlines?
This has nothing to do with the topic?

My uncle George has a German Shepherd that he likes to take for walks on the beach.


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## dioxide45 (Jan 11, 2022)

vail said:


> You realize small dogs are allowed to fly on airlines?
> This has nothing to do with the topic?
> 
> My uncle George has a German Shepherd that he likes to take for walks on the beach.


THey are, but not inside a purse? Aren't they supposed to be in a pet carrier under the seat or in their own seat?


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## wjappraise (Jan 11, 2022)

hcarman said:


> And that may be the case in the situation you mention. However, there are people on this site that make general comments like because an owner had a small dog it must be fake. Or because they are seeing more dogs at properties these days they must _all _be fake. Or because they heard a bark it must be fake. While there are of course fakes, we all recognize that - I would also argue there are a lot more kinds of legitimate service dogs than there used to be since they are training and using them for many more things. Most people probably have no idea what all they are being used for. This is what I am talking about - don't immediately judge. I have a friend with an epilepsy dog - I am sure she gets people accusing her of having a fake service dog because it is not one of the breeds people initially think of as a service dog and is probably not trained the same way as a more traditional service dog like a seeing eye dog is. But this dog is legitimate, performs his task if needed, and could save her life one day.



I think you’re too close perhaps have personalized this. And you’ve missed the point. 

The problem isn’t the service dogs, it’s the fake ones. And with the sheer numbers of dogs at airports and resorts, it’s clear we have a problem. Someone with a real service dog needs to understand that too many counterfeit service dogs are out there. 

When you go to a store and hand the clerk a $100 bill, do you object when they do their counterfeit test? Of course not, when you have the real legal tender you are fine with having it proven. It needs to be the same with service dogs. 

Something needs to be done.


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## vail (Jan 11, 2022)

dioxide45 said:


> THey are, but not inside a purse? Aren't they supposed to be in a pet carrier under the seat or in their own seat?



Yes--and maybe that is exactly what the flight attendant told them, they complied, and end of story?


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## gln60 (Jan 11, 2022)

vail said:


> Yes--and maybe that is exactly what the flight attendant told them, they complied, and end of story?


They complied???….uhh…..no…by the way…..what seat were you sitting in on the flight???


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## LUVourMarriotts (Jan 11, 2022)

Found this on a website midogguide.com.  There are probably other things that could be added.  Not all of these are always true, depending on the disability or if the dog is alerting the handler.

*How can you tell if its a real service dog?*
This makes spoting the fakes exceptionally difficult, but if the dog is showing any of these behaviors, it's most likely an impostor.

They're being carried or pushed in a cart...
They're not on a leash...
They're pulling on the leash...
They're barking or whining...
They're sniffing everything...
Others we can add to the list are

The handler has the dog with them sometimes and not with them other times
The dog leash is being passed between family members while walking
The dog is sleeping while the handler is not beside it


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## vail (Jan 12, 2022)

gln60 said:


> They complied???….uhh…..no…by the way…..what seat were you sitting in on the flight???



These days I try to fly as little as possible.
It seems the same people that used to travel by Greyhound bus, are now filling up the airplanes.


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## Pompey Family (Jan 16, 2022)

DRH90277 said:


> I doubt legitimate service dog owners would object to providing a permit certifying the animal is a legitimate service animal - much like a driver's license.



That's exactly what I have. I have a card in my wallet with a photo of my dog, my details and confirmation that she is a certified service dog. I've never been asked to produce it but it's there in the event that someone questions the legitimacy of my dog.


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## Fasttr (Jan 16, 2022)

Pompey Family said:


> That's exactly what I have. I have a card in my wallet with a photo of my dog, my details and confirmation that she is a certified service dog. I've never been asked to produce it but it's there in the event that someone questions the legitimacy of my dog.


If we weren’t so hung up on taxation without representation years ago, we’d have those cards here.  ;-)


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## Pompey Family (Jan 16, 2022)

LUVourMarriotts said:


> Found this on a website midogguide.com.  There are probably other things that could be added.  Not all of these are always true, depending on the disability or if the dog is alerting the handler.
> 
> *How can you tell if its a real service dog?*
> This makes spoting the fakes exceptionally difficult, but if the dog is showing any of these behaviors, it's most likely an impostor.
> ...



That's pretty generic and not quite true. I have a service dog, she's a german shorthaired pointer and she LOVES to sniff, it's in her DNA, she's a gundog and you can't train it out of her. She also barks, not when we're out and about but when at home as well as whining whilst she's waiting for her dinner to be prepared. She doesn't accompany me at all times because there are occasions and locations where I don't anticipate needing her. When she's exercising she's not working and therefore can be walked by anyone, is let off lead and allowed to exhibit normal dog behaviours.

I've never taken her to any of our Vacation Club stays because it would be unfair on her to expect her to lay in the heat with her jacket on whilst I'm sunbathing or in the pool (if I was in the pool she most definitely would want to join me which wouldn't be appropriate). She does accompany me when we taake a break in the UK.


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## Big Matt (Jan 16, 2022)

I checked in to Manor Club yesterday.  They are now posting at each checkin desk a very prominet sign stating the pet/service animal policy and how misrepresenting a service animal is a criminal offense in Virgnia.  Interestingly a woman checking in ahead of me told them that she had a service animal with her (in the car).  The front desk person asked for proof.  The woman didn't have any on her, but went to the car and retrieved the dog's vest as evidence and promised that she would email her proof once she got in the unit.  

So...........Marriott is listening


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## VacationForever (Jan 16, 2022)

Big Matt said:


> I checked in to Manor Club yesterday.  They are now posting at each checkin desk a very prominet sign stating the pet/service animal policy and how misrepresenting a service animal is a criminal offense in Virgnia.  Interestingly a woman checking in ahead of me told them that she had a service animal with her (in the car).  The front desk person asked for proof.  The woman didn't have any on her, but went to the car and retrieved the dog's vest as evidence and promised that she would email her proof once she got in the unit.
> 
> So...........Marriott is listening


The issue is that there is no documentation requirement that makes a dog a service dog.


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## dioxide45 (Jan 16, 2022)

Big Matt said:


> I checked in to Manor Club yesterday.  They are now posting at each checkin desk a very prominet sign stating the pet/service animal policy and how misrepresenting a service animal is a criminal offense in Virgnia.  Interestingly a woman checking in ahead of me told them that she had a service animal with her (in the car).  The front desk person asked for proof.  The woman didn't have any on her, but went to the car and retrieved the dog's vest as evidence and promised that she would email her proof once she got in the unit.
> 
> So...........Marriott is listening


Legally, they aren't allowed to ask for proof. They can ask two questions. Manor Club is violating ADA in this instance and Marriott and likely the HOA could face stiff fines.


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## kds4 (Jan 16, 2022)

dioxide45 said:


> Legally, they aren't allowed to ask for proof. They can ask two questions. Manor Club is violating ADA in this instance and Marriott and likely the HOA could face stiff fines.



Yup. The first question they asked was correct, but they missed the second question of asking the owner what the animal is trained to do. Asking for proof instead of asking what the animal was trained to do is a violation of the ADA as dioxide45 correctly stated. The vest is meaningless as a form of proof (which may contribute to why in the U.S. we don't require it). Besides it being a 'burden' to show proof, there is also the great difficulty of obtaining one.  https://www.amazon.com/s?k=service+animal+pet+vest&crid=2XTWUSU1H9SX5&sprefix=service+animal+pet+vest,aps,114&ref=nb_sb_noss_2


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## Big Matt (Jan 17, 2022)

They didn't ask what the service animal was for.  They asked to show something stating that the dog was a service animal.  The woman volunteered to bring in the vest, but the front desk clerk never asked for that.  The desk clerk did ask for a description of the dog.


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## dioxide45 (Jan 17, 2022)

Big Matt said:


> They didn't ask what the service animal was for.  They asked to show something stating that the dog was a service animal.  The woman volunteered to bring in the vest, but the front desk clerk never asked for that.  The desk clerk did ask for a description of the dog.


Either way, it is still a violation of ADA.


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## Big Matt (Jan 17, 2022)

dioxide45 said:


> Either way, it is still a violation of ADA.


I didn't say it wasn't.  I was just posting what happened.  BTW, I don't own a service animal and don't have a clue about the regulations.  I'm just happy that Marriott is trying to address a problem that a lot of us have experienced.


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## jme (Jan 17, 2022)

dioxide45 said:


> Either way, it is still a violation of ADA.



Should NOT be a violation, that's the problem. Until the resort can ask, just like most of the other dozens of situations where IDs are required 
(there's really no difference), then we're never going to make much progress. 
Having said that, 
THIS was in the pre-arrival email going out to soon-to-be guests at Marriott Grande Ocean, 
(and I think it's been mentioned before for several resorts, despite the lack of a universal across-the-board policy):

"Your confirmed arrival time is 4:00 p.m.  
We can’t guarantee access to your villa before 4 p.m., but you’re welcome to use our facilities to freshen up or to change and start enjoying the resort amenities.
Check-out is 10 a.m.
*Service Animal Policy*
*Service animals that perform work or tasks are welcome at the resort, but family pets are not permitted. Bringing a pet to the will result in a Room Recovery Fee. In the event we discover that you have brought a pet to the resort, you will be charged a Room Recovery Fee in the amount of $500 per pet, and you will be asked to take your pet to a local, third-party boarding facility.
Please be aware that in some locations, misrepresenting a pet as a service animal is a misdemeanor and will result in a monetary penalty and/or imprisonment."*
***************************************************************************

This is progress, but not enough!!! 
I firmly believe that the burden of proof should be on the guest to show evidence, 
GIVEN the ramifications and the definite way it adversely affects others at the resort, 
who LIKEWISE have the legal right to AVOID animals that might cause potentially severe allergic reactions 
while their presence is unbeknownst to them, or simply preceded them in a villa. 
THAT is equally within the realm of medical safety and appropriateness, is it not?


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## Superchief (Jan 17, 2022)

I hope this stronger message is working. I have not yet noticed any dogs at Surfwatch after seeing several last year. Unfortunately, there are a lot more people here and in Hilton Head than my previous January visits. Even the Planet Fitness was packed in the middle of the day.


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## DRH90277 (Jan 17, 2022)

Pompey Family said:


> That's exactly what I have. I have a card in my wallet with a photo of my dog, my details and confirmation that she is a certified service dog. I've never been asked to produce it but it's there in the event that someone questions the legitimacy of my dog.



With respect, has any Marriott or other resort check-in person ever asked the two permitted questions?  If they did, were you ok with this inquiry?  

From your experience, do you view this issue as a real problem at the resorts?

Thank you


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## Pompey Family (Jan 18, 2022)

DRH90277 said:


> With respect, has any Marriott or other resort check-in person ever asked the two permitted questions? If they did, were you ok with this inquiry?
> 
> From your experience, do you view this issue as a real problem at the resorts?
> 
> Thank you



As this problem appears almost completely confined to the US and I've never taken my dog to the US then the question has never arisen. I've been in shops in the UK where I've been challenged at times by security informing me that dogs are not allowed but I simply point to her vest and state that she's a service dog, this usually prompts an apology and I'm allowed to enter. I think the problem stems that jackets (normal jackets with no official service writing on them) have become ubiquitous that many people simply see a dog in a jacket without reading what's on it.

As for being asked the questions about my disability and what the dog performs I am expected to answer up to five questions as to the role she performs for me, no questions are permitted to ask about my disability. I have no qualms answering such questions and I often answer them on a daily basis to enquiring members of the public, particularly children. I often see my role as an ambassador to the charity and always keen to recruit fosters for the dogs whilst they undergo training so it's often a good way to meet potential fosters along with veterans who have no idea that the charity exists.

There's no specific or typical breed within the charity, all the dogs are rescue dogs from the Dog's Trust in the UK who have been assessed for their suitability. Whislt the majority are labradors we have plenty of crossbreeds, spaniels, a huskie and the tiniest terrier that would fit in a handbag and I'm sure many people would have no idea that she was a service dog. All dogs and trainers undergo a minimum twice weekly nine month training session and a two day final assessment, the charity is also a member of ADI (Assistance Dogs International) who perform rigorous reviews periodically to ensure we remain up to standard.

To date I've never experienced any problems with her. She accompanies me to pubs and restaurants, is given the command "go in" and she will settle under the table and not move or make a sound until it's time to go. Bus and train travel involves sitting between my feet and not soliciting attention. She can fly for free if she can fit in the floorwell in front of me otherwise I have to purchase a seat for her. The only problems I've encountered have been cultural ones, I was once initially refused entry to a Vietnamese restaurant until I informed the owner they would be liable to a fine up to£9000 and also a number of taxi drivers of a particular faith, some of whom have been taken to court and had their licences removed for refusing to transport colleague's dogs.

I'm quite confident that I could spot a fake service dog whilst wearing a vest judging by it's behaviour but once the vest is off then the dog is allowed to exhibit natural dog behaviour and it would be almost impossible to tell however any dog that dispayed aggressive behaviour clearly isn't a service dog.


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## DRH90277 (Jan 18, 2022)

Pompey Family said:


> As this problem appears almost completely confined to the US and I've never taken my dog to the US then the question has never arisen. I've been in shops in the UK where I've been challenged at times by security informing me that dogs are not allowed but I simply point to her vest and state that she's a service dog, this usually prompts an apology and I'm allowed to enter. I think the problem stems that jackets (normal jackets with no official service writing on them) have become ubiquitous that many people simply see a dog in a jacket without reading what's on it.
> 
> As for being asked the questions about my disability and what the dog performs I am expected to answer up to five questions as to the role she performs for me, no questions are permitted to ask about my disability. I have no qualms answering such questions and I often answer them on a daily basis to enquiring members of the public, particularly children. I often see my role as an ambassador to the charity and always keen to recruit fosters for the dogs whilst they undergo training so it's often a good way to meet potential fosters along with veterans who have no idea that the charity exists.
> 
> ...



It was gracious of you to offer this response and education for us.    

I think I can be more understanding and helpful to others.


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## wjappraise (Jan 21, 2022)

DRH90277 said:


> It was gracious of you to offer this response and education for us.
> 
> I think I can be more understanding and helpful to others.



That’s the most difficult aspect of this scenario. The ones who truly do have service dogs get lumped in with the hordes of pet-bringing abusers. 

So, while understanding and empathy are required, so is a fix of the abuses. And requiring some sort of proof or reason for the dog being allowed on property is the only way to weed out the posers. And it appears the legitimate (non emotional support) users of service dogs are amenable to providing such. It’s the illegitimate users, and the emotional support recipients that become offended. 

Just my dos centavos. 

Wes.


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## VacationForever (Jan 21, 2022)

wjappraise said:


> That’s the most difficult aspect of this scenario. The ones who truly do have service dogs get lumped in with the hordes of pet-bringing abusers.
> 
> So, while understanding and empathy are required, so is a fix of the abuses. And requiring some sort of proof or reason for the dog being allowed on property is the only way to weed out the posers. And it appears the legitimate (non emotional support) users of service dogs are amenable to providing such. It’s the illegitimate users, and the emotional support recipients that become offended.
> 
> ...


There is no proof / certification of a service dog in the US.  You cannot show proof when there isn't such.  ADA also precludes the owner to give reason, other than answer the 2 questions.


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## wjappraise (Jan 21, 2022)

VacationForever said:


> There is no proof / certification of a service dog in the US. You cannot show proof when there isn't such. ADA also precludes the owner to give reason, other than answer the 2 questions.



I’m stating that something needs to be done. I’m not staying ADA be enforced, as it is fatally flawed. But even at that, the questions then should be asked until ADA is fixed. Ignoring this won’t fix it. 

It’s pretty obvious the service dog arrangements are being abused. And the current system has failed.

And the two questions that can be asked should be.  When I’ve observed them being asked, my experience has been that the pet owner becomes belligerent.  Whereas the service dog owner politely answers, and often offers more explanation than was requested.









						Service Dog Rules for Staying in Hotels
					

There are a number of people that require the assistance of a service dog. These specialized and highly trained canines provide the person with a




					www.servicedogcertifications.org
				




Quote “However, under the ADA definition, even the service dog will be scrutinized. Their policies state the dog must be there to directly help the person with a disability. This means the canine aids in areas such as pulling a wheelchair, guiding the person safely, alerting to seizures or medications and other services that are needed for the person’s health and well-being.”

The answer isn’t to state “there’s no certification so we can’t do anything”.  Scrutinized.  As in questioned.  Viewed.  Examined.

Quote “Neither law covers pets or what some call "emotional support animals": animals that provide a sense of safety, companionship, and comfort to those with psychiatric or emotional disabilities or conditions. Although these animals often have therapeutic benefits, they are not individually trained to perform specific tasks for their handlers. Under the ADA and Florida law, owners of public accommodations are not required to allow emotional support animals, only service animals (including psychiatric service dogs).”


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## jme (Jan 21, 2022)

wjappraise said:


> I’m stating that something needs to be done. I’m not staying ADA be enforced, as it is fatally flawed. But even at that, the questions then should be asked until ADA is fixed. Ignoring this won’t fix it.
> 
> It’s pretty obvious the service dog arrangements are being abused. And the current system has failed.
> 
> ...



Amen and Amen!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  I'm with you 100%... 
Something has to be done to take this ridiculous LOOPHOLE away from the self-serving "entitled" ones who willingly and selfishly break the rules.


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## nanceetom (Jan 21, 2022)

I have been reading some of these posts, and have chosen not to respond, until now!  Are you saying a child who is Diabetic, should go onto a seizure or coma to prove their service dog is legitimate?  I use child, since my professional experiences have been with younger children that have dogs for services dealing with Autism, Type 1 diabetes, cancer, etc.  The era of seeing eye/hearing dogs is one that has expanded to so many more disabilities that cannot be seen.  For the families that can afford a service dog, it has been a life saving situation.  Maybe, I am reading the past responses incorrectly, but I hope you are not saying, you would like to see the dog in action, or look at someone’s pods, needles attached to their arms and/or groin to prove they have a disability!


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## wjappraise (Jan 21, 2022)

nanceetom said:


> I have been reading some of these posts, and have chosen not to respond, until now! Are you saying a child who is Diabetic, should go onto a seizure or coma to prove their service dog is legitimate? I use child, since my professional experiences have been with younger children that have dogs for services dealing with Autism, Type 1 diabetes, cancer, etc. The era of seeing eye/hearing dogs is one that has expanded to so many more disabilities that cannot be seen. For the families that can afford a service dog, it has been a life saving situation. Maybe, I am reading the past responses incorrectly, but I hope you are not saying, you would like to see the dog in action, or look at someone’s pods, needles attached to their arms and/or groin to prove they have a disability!



Totally missed the point.

I’m saying there are far too many fake service dogs out there.  Not that those with real needs shouldn’t have a service dog.  Something needs to be done.  What do you suggest?  We need solutions. Not drama.  

Otherwise just let everyone bring whatever animal they want to the resorts.  And Call it a day.


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## nanceetom (Jan 21, 2022)

wjappraise said:


> Totally missed the point.
> 
> I’m saying there are far too many fake service dogs out there.  Not that those with real needs shouldn’t have a service dog.  Something needs to be done.  What do you suggest?  We need solutions. Not drama.
> 
> Otherwise just let everyone bring whatever animal they want to the resorts.  And Call it a day.


Not drama, just stating examples where a dog may not look like the ‘picture’ of what many people have stated in some posts, or what people have associated Service Dog functions. Since 2020, we have stayed 19 weeks in different Marriott timeshares, And we have only seen one dog, so, it is difficult to give solutions to something that we have not witnessed to be a problem or abuse.


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## DRH90277 (Jan 21, 2022)

I haven't seen a service dog or another dog at any one of our Marriott Timeshares since 2006 when we bought.  When I see one and can conclude there is a problem, I will get involved.  Until then, I think I will let resort management team handle this.  Sorry, no petition for us.


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## Dean (Jan 21, 2022)

I don't think I"ve had a MVC stay in years where I didn't see a dog that appeared to be a pet including this week in Aruba.  We're usually in 3-5 MVC resorts per year, sometimes more.


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## BJRSanDiego (Jan 21, 2022)

I agree that a person with a disability shouldn't need to go through a severe screening and PROVE that their dog is a service dog.  But the ADA only allows 2 questions:  Do you need a service dog for your disability and what are the two tasks that your dog is trained to do?  How simple can that be?  

But when I've discussed with Marriott, many of their associates believe that they cannot any question, let alone those two specific questions.  So, there is a lack of training.  All associates should know what is allowed to be asked and what is not.  Right now, I suspect that most associates don't have much of an understanding.

I typically see a dog or two or more at every timeshare exchange.  Some are very likely service dogs (vest, well behaved, no barking, no pulling on the leash, sitting patiently at the owners feet, etc. - - they are working and on-duty).  But at the other end of the spectrum are a few that I've seen barking, pulling on a leash, getting off the leash and running around, starting a fight with another dog, aggressive behavior like nipping at people, 6 month old puppies, being left on the lanai to bark when their owner is apparently not around, etc).

But it is a complex issue and it is a problem because of the sleaze-ball people who are manipulating the system to pawn off their family pet as a service dog.


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## Pompey Family (Jan 22, 2022)

nanceetom said:


> Maybe, I am reading the past responses incorrectly, but I hope you are not saying, you would like to see the dog in action, or look at someone’s pods, needles attached to their arms and/or groin to prove they have a disability!



My take on most of the posts on this thread is that people would like to see some way of establishing the authenticity of a service dog without infringing upon the privacy and rights of the handler. The most obvious way to do this would be to have some sort of identification that certifies that a dog is a legitimate service dog. As I mentioned in a previous post I carry an identification card for my dog which confirms her status as a service dog. This was provided by the charity once she was accredited. I can't see a reason why this cannot be replicated by organisations in the US. I'm not familiar with the training systems in use in the US but I would imagine that authentic service dogs are trained by accredited organisations who would be in a position to provide certified documentation that could be provided to confirm a dog's status as a service dog. 

I've never been asked to show my card but I'd have no issue if someone asked to see it and it negates the need to ask any questions about my disability. Of course there is always the potential for people to create fake certification, I've experienced it with the charity I work with, however such practices are not common and the benefits of certification far outweigh the risks associated with fraudulant documentation.


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## wjappraise (Jan 22, 2022)

nanceetom said:


> Not drama, just stating examples where a dog may not look like the ‘picture’ of what many people have stated in some posts, or what people have associated Service Dog functions. Since 2020, we have stayed 19 weeks in different Marriott timeshares, And we have only seen one dog, so, it is difficult to give solutions to something that we have not witnessed to be a problem or abuse.



I think of it like the situation with handicapped parking. Do we “take someone’s word for it?” No, there are steps that are taken so it’s an approved usage. Are there times it’s abused? Yes. But far less than it would be if were left up to the conscience of the individual. And the problem is growing. 

We have stayed at Wyndham resorts. And EVERY visit over the same time period (about 15 stays) there have been multiple dogs on site. Some are clearly service dogs. And others are clearly not (being carried or in a purse, or out of control). But all get treated the same because of lack of appropriate approval standards. 

The desk at bonnet creek told me during our thanksgiving stay that one couple checked in with FOUR service dogs. The couple was in there 20’s and we regularly saw them without their “service animals” when they would jog around the pond. So, what’s your answer to this? Let it be? If so, it’s going to grow and compound. Get ready for dog fights in the lobbies. And get ready for the unmistakable scent of dog urine in your room. And make sure you walk around the grassy sections with shoes so you don’t step in the dog feces. 

Don’t forget - if someone is so callous as to pass themselves off as handicapped and needing a service dog, when they don’t - they likely don’t feel the need to clean up after Fido. 

It’s going to get worse.


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## Superchief (Jan 25, 2022)

I've now seen three dogs in the past week here at SurfWatch, None appeared to be behaving like you would expect a service dog to behave. They were running, jumping on people, and chasing birds. I think this resorts attracts more people who think it is ok to bring their dogs because it is more spread out and they think they are less likely to get caught.


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## jme (Jan 25, 2022)

Superchief said:


> I've now seen three dogs in the past week here at SurfWatch, None appeared to be behaving like you would expect a service dog to behave. They were running, jumping on people, and chasing birds. I think this resorts attracts more people who think it is ok to bring their dogs because it is more spread out and they think they are less likely to get caught.



Bill, speak to the general manager and inform him TODAY.......and take pics if necessary.......
he needs to know because "he's being taken for a fool".
Somebody is using him and the other guests for their selfish and illegal pleasure.
It's not something to be taken lightly, and I believe the ACTION is our responsibility initially.


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## jmhpsu93 (Feb 18, 2022)

There was a reminder in the Marriott Insider email this week.  No teeth of course, but does remind people that service animals are allowed, pets aren't.





Links to here:





__





						Service Animals Welcome – Insider | Marriott Vacation Club
					






					insider.marriottvacationclub.com


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## Fasttr (Feb 18, 2022)

jmhpsu93 said:


> There was a reminder in the Marriott Insider email this week.  No teeth of course, but does remind people that service animals are allowed, pets aren't.
> 
> View attachment 47331
> 
> ...


Saw that too.  In my opinion, they are missing an educational opportunity to explain that “emotional support animals” (as we are defining them as pets disguised as service animals) are not recognized service animals.


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## wjappraise (Feb 18, 2022)

Just left a week at Bonnet Creek. 

I counted 14 different dogs there … likely two were actually service dogs, based on their behavior. The other twelve … pets using the facilities and adding to the already bloated maintenance fees we pay at BC.
At least three piles of dog poo in the grass.


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## vail (Feb 18, 2022)

Gee...and I thought the pot smoking service dogs only stayed at Marriott's?
I guess they are getting branching out.....


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## dioxide45 (Feb 18, 2022)

wjappraise said:


> Just left a week at Bonnet Creek.
> 
> I counted 14 different dogs there … likely two were actually service dogs, based on their behavior. The other twelve … pets using the facilities and adding to the already bloated maintenance fees we pay at BC.
> At least three piles of dog poo in the grass.


Is it possible you counted the same dog twice during your trip?


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## wjappraise (Feb 18, 2022)

dioxide45 said:


> Is it possible you counted the same dog twice during your trip?



I was worried about that contingency. So I came up with a good solution. I sprayed each dog with an X from an indelible bright red spray can color so I wouldn’t count them more than once. 

For the easily alarmed animal rights activists - I’m joking. 

Wes


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## WBP (Feb 20, 2022)

Pompey Family said:


> That's exactly what I have. I have a card in my wallet with a photo of my dog, my details and confirmation that she is a certified service dog. I've never been asked to produce it but it's there in the event that someone questions the legitimacy of my dog.



Those cards are meaningless. They can be purchased on the Internet for $10.00, $15.00 with a Medical Marijuana card and $20.00 for a Mask Waiver Card. I think they call the Card Trifecta, the Extortion Package. Here's just one example produced by a Google search for "certified service dog card:"









						US Service Dog Certification | Same Day Online Registration
					

Most trusted online registry of Service Dogs and Emotional Support Animals. Register in minutes. Same day digital download and email.




					usservicedogcertification.com


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## Steve Fatula (Feb 20, 2022)

WBP said:


> Those cards are meaningless. They can be purchased on the Internet for $10.00, $15.00 with a Medical Marijuana card and $20.00 for a Mask Waiver Card. I think they call the Card Trifecta, the Extortion Package. Here's just one example produced by a Google search for "certified service dog card:"
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Yeah, that site tries to look very official. But the FAQ says this:

Am I eligible to have a Service Dog?
We do not require medical proof or a letter from a doctor to process your registration. By registering, you affirm that you have a physical or mental disability that impairs your ability to complete everyday activities and your Service Animal helps you with a specific task(s).

In other words, if I lie, no different than those who bring non service dogs into MVCI, they will send me the meaningless card.

What's funny is the site says "Legally staff are not allowed to request documentation for the dog". This is true, but they are selling me a card but said they can't ask you for said card. So, why would I need it!


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## Pompey Family (Feb 20, 2022)

WBP said:


> Those cards are meaningless. They can be purchased on the Internet for $10.00, $15.00 with a Medical Marijuana card and $20.00 for a Mask Waiver Card. I think they call the Card Trifecta, the Extortion Package. Here's just one example produced by a Google search for "certified service dog card:"



Those cards are meaningless because there's no law that covers them.In the UK my card has the registered charity number and full details should anyone wish to perform a check. There's also a registration reference to Assistance Dogs International, if you forge a reference to belonging to ADI then expect a lawsuit. It's not a difficult process to make an create an offcial organisation that manages idetification cards for officially trained service dogs.


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