# 270,000 Annual RCI Points



## tugger2020 (Jun 18, 2012)

Hello all,

I was thinking of getting 4 timeshares that give a total of 270,000 RCI yearly (67,500 x 4). 

Yearly maintenance comes out to about $1500 a year + RCI fees.  

Anyways, is getting this a good deal?  Is RCI points worth it?  It seems mixed reviews everywhere I look.  Some users are extremely happy or happy and others hate RCI with a passion.  

It seems like a good deal to me as the fees to points ratio is about $.005. 

If I were to get these four properties (weeks properties being converted to points with RCI), do all the points get automatically added to my account every year?   Are all the points automatically added to my account and can I use them combined or do I need to pay fees to be able to use points from different timeshares?  Is there anything I should be concerned with?  

I know with RCI that I have to pay their yearly membership fees on top of the maintenance fees.  Other than that, I understand there's a fee that I need to pay each time I use points to book a resort through RCI and this could range from $39-$139. Are there any other fees that I need to be concerned with? 

Any seasoned RCI vets who can give me advice would be greatly appreciated.   

Thanks!


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## vacationhopeful (Jun 18, 2012)

RCI Points have some advantages. I use HOME RESORT booking for most of my RCI reservations; but I have gotten some cherry exchanges, too. The Hilton Club in NYC, DVC exchanges, Manhatten Club in NYC, and The Renasance in Chicago .... Home Resort at 12 months is $40; all the rest were full price exchanges.

If you aren't sure what a HOME RESORT or HOME GROUP of resort is, READ and LEARN more before buying anything. Pure points are nice, but have a full platter of options is far better in timesharing.


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## rickandcindy23 (Jun 18, 2012)

Exchange fees are cheap for nightly stays but go up to $189 for weekly stays.  I took a week's exchange and paid $139, then another one cost me $189, same resort.  I don't know why.  

If you are paying a lot of money to convert weeks to points, don't do it.  

Even so, the price per point is tempting, so as long as you aren't paying full retail, it sounds like a great deal.  But if you are paying $10K or so to do it, you should re-think your plan.  

I am curious what resort but won't ask you to disclose it here.  

I did get rid of four weeks last year, which were converted to RCI Points and were cheap one year, then the next year, not so cheap.  Fees went up.  So I am always concerned that the price today is not what the price will be next year or the year after.


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## chriskre (Jun 18, 2012)

rickandcindy23 said:


> Exchange fees are cheap for nightly stays but go up to $189 for weekly stays.  I took a week's exchange and paid $139, then another one cost me $189, same resort.  I don't know why.



If you exchange into a points resort for a week then the fee is $139 but if you exchange into a strictly weeks resort then you pay the $189.  Also might be how the week was deposited, either in RCI points or RCI weeks at a dual resort.  :annoyed:


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## tugger2020 (Jun 18, 2012)

rickandcindy23 said:


> Exchange fees are cheap for nightly stays but go up to $189 for weekly stays.  I took a week's exchange and paid $139, then another one cost me $189, same resort.  I don't know why.
> 
> If you are paying a lot of money to convert weeks to points, don't do it.
> 
> ...



I'm paying $7500 for 4 x 1 bedroom timeshares that give a total of 270,000. 

Another choice was for 3 x 1 bedroom and 1 studio timeshare for 249,000 for $5600.  

I opted for the 270,000 as I figured it would be more worth it to get an additional 20,000 points a year in the long-run for roughly $2K more now.  Both of the prices I said above include RCI membership charges, resort transfer fees, closing costs, conversion from weeks to points and the yearly maintenance fees for 2012 so I get the full points this year that I can bank.  

I'm concerned like you are that the fee prices may not be the same in the long-run.  I could still cancel at this point but it seems like a really good deal.


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## rickandcindy23 (Jun 18, 2012)

You are jumping into RCI Points in a big way, so it's probably not terrible to pay that much for the points, since they are so cheap.  I know someone else who posted in this thread that has a better deal than that for her RCI Points, and she got hers free.  It's not me. :ignore:  There are a few people here who are doing the UDI thing with CMV, and they pay about .003 per point, if I remember the numbers correctly.  Brucecz knows far more than I.   

One of the best deals I see for RCI Points is Grandview in Vegas, and the price people pay on eBay is about $3K for the big package of like 107K points.  The fees are about .0065 per point, if I remember my figures from when I considered that purchase.  

I opted to keep my .011 RCI points, and I plan to Points for Deposit some weeks every year to get me enough points, and the price is much higher than your deal at about .0076 per point.  That could change in price too. 

Timesharing is always a gamble that the price won't go up, or there are no SA's anytime soon (or ever).  But if you wait around, you won't have a vacation.


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## tugger2020 (Jun 18, 2012)

rickandcindy23 said:


> You are jumping into RCI Points in a big way, so it's probably not terrible to pay that much for the points, since they are so cheap.  I know someone else who posted in this thread that has a better deal than that for her RCI Points, and she got hers free.  It's not me. :ignore:  There are a few people here who are doing the UDI thing with CMV, and they pay about .003 per point, if I remember the numbers correctly.  Brucecz knows far more than I.
> 
> One of the best deals I see for RCI Points is Grandview in Vegas, and the price people pay on eBay is about $3K for the big package of like 107K points.  The fees are about .0065 per point, if I remember my figures from when I considered that purchase.
> 
> ...



What's this UDI thing with CMV?  lol...the acronyms on here are hard to keep track of. 

This was the lowest maintenance fees to points ratio I could find.  If someone got a really good deal or better than this, I'm all ears!  Please let me know.  I would have been happier if the up-front costs for this were lower or free.  

Grandview was roughly the same if you could get the 122K for $686 a year but those are hard to come.  I saw a few on eBay but lately people have been paying $4-5K each for them which is a bit too much for one of those. 

But I was thinking I could share this with family and split the maintenance fees with them.  I own my own business as well and I was considering buying these timeshares as business assets, providing it's use as a benefit for employees to use.  From what I've been reading, you could deduct the up-front costs and the yearly maintenance fees.  I'm still researching this.  

Also, what did you mean by "I plan to Points for Deposit some weeks every year to get me enough points, and the price is much higher than your deal at about .0076 per point".  Are your timeshares weeks or points? 

If I purchase these timeshares and they get converted to points before I receive the deed for them, am I still having to deposit the weeks each year to get the points?   Or will the points be automatically deposited each year once they are converted?


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## ampaholic (Jun 18, 2012)

If it's not too late, before you pull the trigger I would suggest you examine the *U*n *D*ivided *I*nterest units at *C*hristmas *M*ountain *V*illage - you might get a better deal. I think they are giving them away for the MF's these days and If you play them right they can generate a ton of points.

I think 7 large is too too much for 270K annual points - until recently I had 229K Points that I purchased for under $1200 all in (closing costs and all).

I have offloaded about 120K points recently as I have found other ways to "leverage" my other weeks into more and more weeks so 229K was just too many.


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## tugger2020 (Jun 18, 2012)

ampaholic said:


> If it's not too late, before you pull the trigger I would suggest you examine the UDI units at Christmas Mountain Village - you might get a better deal. I think they are giving them away for the MF's these days and If you play them right they can generate a ton of points.
> 
> I think 7 large is too too much for 270K annual points - until recently I had 229K Points that I purchased for under $1200 all in (closing costs and all).
> 
> I have offloaded about 120K points recently as I have found other ways to "leverage" my other weeks into more and more weeks so 229K was just too many.



It's definitely not too late.   Do you recommend looking for these UDI units on eBay? 

How many points do these units give you?


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## chriskre (Jun 18, 2012)

tugger2020 said:


> It's definitely not too late.   Do you recommend looking for these UDI units on eBay?
> 
> How many points do these units give you?



I sent you a PM about these. 
The HOA is giving them away for free here on TUG.http://tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=153205&highlight=christmas+mountain


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## chriskre (Jun 19, 2012)

tugger2020 said:


> It's definitely not too late.   Do you recommend looking for these UDI units on eBay?
> 
> How many points do these units give you?



No just take a free one from the HOA.
Sheri is helping facilitate the transfers.
Just pay $295 closing costs or something like that.

As for points there is a grid for points for deposits.  
I'm not sure if this is the most recent grid but you'll have an idea.http://www.rci.com/GPN/CDA/Common/pdf/RCI_ExGridsUpdate1.pdf
It's like 36K for a red week, 24K for a white and 14K for a blue week.
I'm paying roughly $150 per week deposited plus the $24 to do the PFD transaction to give you an idea.


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## ampaholic (Jun 19, 2012)

tugger2020 said:


> What's this UDI thing with CMV?  lol...the acronyms on here are hard to keep track of.
> 
> *See my last post*
> 
> ...



Patience grasshopper as DeniseM would say:* "you need to study a lot before you jump in like this"*.

I would recommend *much more* study before purchasing a "lifetime of MF's".


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## tugger2020 (Jun 19, 2012)

chriskre said:


> No just take a free one from the HOA.
> Sheri is helping facilitate the transfers.
> Just pay $295 closing costs or something like that.
> 
> ...



Thanks chriskre.  I'll check this out.  It does seem like a complicated system though and a bit too good to be true.  How long have most people been doing this?  

Do you think it is sustainable long-term?


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## chriskre (Jun 19, 2012)

tugger2020 said:


> Thanks chriskre.  I'll check this out.  It does seem like a complicated system though and a bit too good to be true.  How long have most people been doing this?
> 
> Do you think it is sustainable long-term?



Yes it is complicated initially but I'm sure you're a quick study.   

As for how long people have been doing this, I imagine since the developer sold these as UDI's.  It was originally sold this way so it's been around for a long time.  It's not something that you do to your week to convert it, it's already like that on the deed when you take over it.  It's not like RCI points where you convert a week you already own.  

As for it being sustainable long term, I certainly hope so but I don't have a crystal ball.  I think once the renovations are done on the cottages that they will have even more appeal and value than they do today.  I don't see RCI saying, "no, please no more deposits".  If anything, they'll say "yes, please send us more weeks so we can rent them out".  :rofl:


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## MichaelColey (Jun 19, 2012)

I would be careful suggesting the CMV UDI for a casual timesharer.  It's kind of like suggesting a BMW S1000RR for someone looking for their first motorcycle.  Sure, it looks really nice, but it's WAY more motorcycle (and timeshare) that most people can handle.

It's rather complicated to use CMV for RCI Points.  First, you have to own another RCI Points property before you can even have an RCI Points account.  Second, you're limited to 4 PFD deposits per year.  Third, to get the full value, you're going to have to deposit at least 90 days out.  Fourth, because of that, you're probably only going to be able to do 2-3 Red weeks that are 90+ days out (and the other 1-2 either Red less than 90 days or White 90+ days), for a total of about 130k RCI points.  The rest (if you choose to get more weeks than that) would have to be used in other ways.

So, here's a question for you...  Why are you interested in RCI Points?  Are you even sure that's your best option?  You're planning on jumping in, in a very big way.


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## chriskre (Jun 19, 2012)

Michael is right.
It's definitely not the first TS that I'd recommend to a newbie.
Shoot it took me about 3 years just to wrap my brain around the idea of taking one of these on.  Now that I own it though, it's much better than I thought it would be but not for RCI points, but for the flexibility of using it everywhere.
I'm getting good value in II and TPU's also.  
I haven't even ventured into rentals yet but that's also a great perk.


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## tugger2020 (Jun 19, 2012)

MichaelColey said:


> I would be careful suggesting the CMV UDI for a casual timesharer.  It's kind of like suggesting a BMW S1000RR for someone looking for their first motorcycle.  Sure, it looks really nice, but it's WAY more motorcycle (and timeshare) that most people can handle.
> 
> It's rather complicated to use CMV for RCI Points.  First, you have to own another RCI Points property before you can even have an RCI Points account.  Second, you're limited to 4 PFD deposits per year.  Third, to get the full value, you're going to have to deposit at least 90 days out.  Fourth, because of that, you're probably only going to be able to do 2-3 Red weeks that are 90+ days out (and the other 1-2 either Red less than 90 days or White 90+ days), for a total of about 130k RCI points.  The rest (if you choose to get more weeks than that) would have to be used in other ways.
> 
> So, here's a question for you...  Why are you interested in RCI Points?  Are you even sure that's your best option?  You're planning on jumping in, in a very big way.



Thanks Michael.  It sounds interesting but you're right.  I really need to read up more before I jump into it.  

I was looking at RCI, HGVC and Marriott.  RCI seemed to be flexible as far as usage and with the most locations.  It also had lower up-front investment costs, decent yearly maintenance fees and RCI membership costs, and the ability to stay a week or even a few days.  HGVC is similar but the upfront cost was a lot more expensive and the amounts of points you get was much less it seemed. 

The way we travel would be a week vacation and then a bunch of regular weekend and/or holiday weekend trips.  

I was hoping to also use the RCI points for work stays when I travel on business rather than booking hotels.  Maybe even use the Last Call ability to use a lower amount of points to book last minute.


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## djyamyam (Jun 19, 2012)

tugger2020 said:


> I'm paying $7500 for 4 x 1 bedroom timeshares that give a total of 270,000.
> 
> Another choice was for 3 x 1 bedroom and 1 studio timeshare for 249,000 for $5600.
> 
> ...



Not knowing anything other than what you've described here, I'm thinking you're looking at buying Rayburn County packaged together with some South African TS for PFD.  The guy that sells those has been selling those for a while.  He sells them for a bit higher upfront cost but has low MF/points ratio.


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## MichaelColey (Jun 19, 2012)

tugger2020 said:


> The way we travel would be a week vacation and then a bunch of regular weekend and/or holiday weekend trips.
> 
> I was hoping to also use the RCI points for work stays when I travel on business rather than booking hotels. Maybe even use the Last Call ability to use a lower amount of points to book last minute.


Ah, now we're getting down to the nuts and bolts of it.

The week's vacation would be no problem. That's ideal for timeshares.

Weekend and/or holiday weekend trips. That's much harder to do. Weekends and holidays are much harder to get. MANY people are tied to school schedules, so there's a lot of competition for those holiday weeks.

Timeshares for work trips will be even tougher. First, you won't find timeshares in many of the places where most people travel for business (big cities). They're mainly in resort areas (think Orlando, Las Vegas, Branson, Hawaii, etc.). Second, they often have to be booked well in advance and often can't be cancelled. Third, short stays can be more expensive than hotels, especially with RCI.

Based on what you're looking for, I might suggest Wyndham. There's usually fairly good availability, even close in. There are quite a few locations. The quality is consistently good. You can book shorter stays.

BUT DON'T BUY YET. Find a Wyndham owner and rent from them. It won't cost much more than owning, and you'll get the experience without having to make a commitment. And you'll be able to see if it's for you. If it is, then research buying resale and make the leap.


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## tugger2020 (Jun 19, 2012)

djyamyam said:


> Not knowing anything other than what you've described here, I'm thinking you're looking at buying Rayburn County packaged together with some South African TS for PFD.  The guy that sells those has been selling those for a while.  He sells them for a bit higher upfront cost but has low MF/points ratio.



It's at the Club Los Claveles Resorts in Tenerife which are weeks resorts being converted to points.  The purchase prices were quoted in Great British Pound (GBP) but the prices I posted were the approximate converted prices in U.S. dollars.


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## tugger2020 (Jun 19, 2012)

MichaelColey said:


> Ah, now we're getting down to the nuts and bolts of it.
> 
> The week's vacation would be no problem. That's ideal for timeshares.
> 
> ...



Alright I'll look into Wyndham.  I thought RCI was owned by them?  Are you able to trade into Wyndham with RCI points?


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## MichaelColey (Jun 19, 2012)

tugger2020 said:


> Alright I'll look into Wyndham. I thought RCI was owned by them? Are you able to trade into Wyndham with RCI points?


RCI is owned by Wyndham, but Wyndham owners have much better access to Wyndham properties.

What size units would you typically be looking for?  That's another big difference between different systems.  Some are more suited to different sizes of units.


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## tugger2020 (Jun 19, 2012)

MichaelColey said:


> RCI is owned by Wyndham, but Wyndham owners have much better access to Wyndham properties.
> 
> What size units would you typically be looking for?  That's another big difference between different systems.  Some are more suited to different sizes of units.



Right now only a studio or 1 bedroom would be needed as no kids yet.  Maybe bigger units later in life.


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## ampaholic (Jun 19, 2012)

tugger2020 said:


> Alright I'll look into Wyndham.  I thought RCI was owned by them?  Are you able to trade into Wyndham with RCI points?



There are two "Wyndhams" 1. is resorts *managed* by Wyndham - you can buy a resale week several places. These can be exchanged in RCI or SFX or PI or Vri*ity or TPI like any other "week"
2. is the Wyndham points system. These are either a deeded week "converted" to Wyndham Points or a membership that is "just points" (I'm not sure if these trade like deeded weeks do).

I recently traded a march week on the Oregon coast for an April week at the Wyndham in Honolulu through VRI*ity - didn't use Wyndham *or* RCI.

Timesharing is like playing golf on quicksand - lots of different lines to the cup. and lots of different hazards as well :hysterical:


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## tugger2020 (Jun 19, 2012)

ampaholic said:


> There are two "Wyndhams" 1. is resorts *managed* by Wyndham - you can buy a resale week several places. These can be exchanged in RCI or SFX or PI or Vri*ity or TPI like any other "week"
> 2. is the Wyndham points system. These are either a deeded week "converted" to Wyndham Points or a membership that is "just points" (I'm not sure if these trade like deeded weeks do).
> 
> I recently traded a march week on the Oregon coast for an April week at the Wyndham in Honolulu through VRI*ity - didn't use Wyndham *or* RCI.
> ...



lol yet another cool site.  Thanks for the heads up.  I'm going to do a little more research on the different choices and see what will work best for us.


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## ampaholic (Jun 19, 2012)

tugger2020 said:


> lol yet another cool site.  Thanks for the heads up.  I'm going to do a little more research on the different choices and see what will work best for us.



Good idea:

First get a good grip on what kind of vacationing you like to do (usage) 

Timeshares are much like other real estate --- Location, Location, Location.

One school of thought here says "buy were you like to vacation" another says "buy where you get the best exchanges" - there is even a small faction of "buy the best rental units" guru's here.

There are so many variables  measure twice - cut once


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## tugger2020 (Jun 19, 2012)

ampaholic said:


> Good idea:
> 
> First get a good grip on what kind of vacationing you like to do (usage)
> 
> ...



Aside from the UDI units that were mentioned, I am still very much leaning towards a points based membership.  It just seems much more flexible.  If I go the points route, I shouldn't have to be concerned as much with getting the best exchanges right?  The points that are provided are my points to use, provided a resort is available for the time/location I want/need? 

Also, you can rent out whatever a "guest" would want...again provided you do it early enough and if it is available?  It just seems much more flexible to me than buying a week at a resort.  The only exception that I've heard to that is the UDI units.


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## MichaelColey (Jun 19, 2012)

I agree that a points system would be best for what you're looking for.  Of the points systems, I would rate Wyndham as one of the best and RCI Points as one of the worst.

The only positive thing RCI Points has going for it is the number of resorts, but that's far outweighed by many negatives IMHO.  When I look at what's available right now, RCI Points has 2736 resorts with availability.  If I remove 7 night stays (basically RCI Weeks inventory), that number plummets to 556.  Just in the US, it drops to 445.  4-star (out of 5) or higher, it's down to 190.  Available this month or next, and it's onlly 42.  That's about one per state to choose from (but of course it's not evenly distributed -- 11 of those 42 are in Florida).

Wyndham and the other systems will have much more consistently high quality resort and much better inventory available fairly close in.  Where RCI only had about 10% of it's RCI Points inventory that was high quality (4-star and up) available close in (this month and next), it's probably closer to 90% elsewhere.

I'm not saying RCI Points is good for nothing.  I've got a few good exchanges out of it.  But for most things, I could do better in other systems.  There are specific situations where RCI Points is often best.  But I wouldn't want to lock myself into just (or primarily) using RCI Points.  That's just me, though.  It might work better for others.


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## vacationhopeful (Jun 19, 2012)

If you look at what many of the posters' own who have been replying to you, you will see they (and I) have a portfolio of resorts and systems which they own. These were NOT brought within a month - but over the years. And everyone of us, constantly track the return we get (vacationing needs met) and dump the dogs when necessary.

Go slow - the bargains will still be there next month or next year. And realize, your employees may not want _the boss_ controlling their vacations. Esp the spouses - pesky critters that they are.:ignore: 

And us TUGGERS have run into other guests at resorts WHO just hate the timeshare concept - make your own bed, kitchen to cook in (many wives), no on site food/hard liquor, gabby elevator persons, and quirky resorts which would NEVER be considered Hiltons or Marriotts (my favorite was the PINK place - everything pink like kitchen cabinets, floors, paint, bathroom, furniture).


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## tugger2020 (Jun 19, 2012)

MichaelColey said:


> I agree that a points system would be best for what you're looking for.  Of the points systems, I would rate Wyndham as one of the best and RCI Points as one of the worst.
> 
> The only positive thing RCI Points has going for it is the number of resorts, but that's far outweighed by many negatives IMHO.  When I look at what's available right now, RCI Points has 2736 resorts with availability.  If I remove 7 night stays (basically RCI Weeks inventory), that number plummets to 556.  Just in the US, it drops to 445.  4-star (out of 5) or higher, it's down to 190.  Available this month or next, and it's onlly 42.  That's about one per state to choose from (but of course it's not evenly distributed -- 11 of those 42 are in Florida).
> 
> ...



Looking into Wyndham now.   Any recommendation on places to purchase from or resellers?  Are these are locations like RCI that have better MFs to points ratio?


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## tugger2020 (Jun 19, 2012)

vacationhopeful said:


> And realize, your employees may not want _the boss_ controlling their vacations. Esp the spouses - pesky critters that they are.:ignore:



:rofl: 

I wouldn't "control" their vacations but I see your point.  I was going to give them the options to select a lot of places and provide me projected dates (way in advance) from the RCI Resort directory and we'd do everything we can to get their first priority.  I haven't decided on all the details yet but figured it would be a good benefit to most employees.  They'd just have to pay for airfare but even that we may try to cover for one or two of them with the AA rewards miles.  Just ideas at this point but the possibility seemed like a good idea.   We're a small group (less than 5) so it would be manageable until/if we grow and I'd have to re-think this more.  

I know what you mean about people not liking a timeshare and complaining though.  I personally don't care about making the beds and like the idea of having my own kitchen but not everyone would.


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## MichaelColey (Jun 19, 2012)

tugger2020 said:


> Looking into Wyndham now. Any recommendation on places to purchase from or resellers? Are these are locations like RCI that have better MFs to points ratio?


My only recommendation right now is NOT to buy.  Have you ever stayed in a timeshare?  Try it out by renting first.

If you had never driven a car before and had never seen one up close, would you think it would be a good idea to buy a fleet of half a dozen cars, sight unseen?  Wouldn't it make more sense to at least take one on a test drive?  Or try a few?  Then buy one?  Then if you think you need more, gradually expand your fleet?


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## tugger2020 (Jun 19, 2012)

MichaelColey said:


> My only recommendation right now is NOT to buy.  Have you ever stayed in a timeshare?  Try it out by renting first.
> 
> If you had never driven a car before and had never seen one up close, would you think it would be a good idea to buy a fleet of half a dozen cars, sight unseen?  Wouldn't it make more sense to at least take one on a test drive?  Or try a few?  Then buy one?  Then if you think you need more, gradually expand your fleet?



I'll rent before I buy.  I've seen ads on eBay for Wyndham, HGVC and Marriott weeks or points rentals.  Is it possible to rent RCI points from someone to book a stay at a resort I want?


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## chriskre (Jun 19, 2012)

tugger2020 said:


> The way we travel would be a week vacation and then a bunch of regular weekend and/or holiday weekend trips.
> 
> I was hoping to also use the RCI points for work stays when I travel on business rather than booking hotels.  Maybe even use the Last Call ability to use a lower amount of points to book last minute.



Not knowing where you live and where you want to go, you did mention Hilton so I'll expound on that.  Although the buy in may be higher but is on par with this RCI points ownership that you are thinking of taking on, it's a great system for short stays.  

Not using the HGVC points per say but for booking last minute getaways.  I've only owned HGVC for 2 short years and I've stayed more than 24 nights.  Only 8 of those stays were with club points the rest were Open season rentals from the club.  That is one of the best perks for this ownership IMO and the reason why I wanted to at least own a biennial in HGVC.  Since I live in an area that HGVC is strong in, it works for me.   If you live in an area that they are strong in or can travel with 30 days notice then you might enjoy this ownership.  

Another thing I can say is I agree with the others that if you have never stayed in a TS, then that should be square one.  They are definitely not hotels and don't function or book like hotels.  You need to either be an uber planner like Michael or a free wheeling opportunist like me.   

For that reason I don't believe in over committing to any one system and why I now only acquire biennials and triennials if possible or systems that will allow me to bank and borrow points.  That way my portfolio of TS's is balanced and if the rules change, which they always seem to do :annoyed: , I can cut my losses and dump the doggies.  Also if I stay in all the resorts in any system and tire of them, I can get out a little easier and cheaper with a lower commitment ownership.  Well that's my take on it YMMV.


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## tugger2020 (Jun 19, 2012)

chriskre said:


> Not knowing where you live and where you want to go, you did mention Hilton so I'll expound on that.  Although the buy in may be higher but is on par with this RCI points ownership that you are thinking of taking on, it's a great system for short stays.
> 
> Not using the HGVC points per say but for booking last minute getaways.  I've only owned HGVC for 2 short years and I've stayed more than 24 nights.  Only 8 of those stays were with club points the rest were Open season rentals from the club.  That is one of the best perks for this ownership IMO and the reason why I wanted to at least own a biennial in HGVC.  Since I live in an area that HGVC is strong in, it works for me.   If you live in an area that they are strong in or can travel with 30 days notice then you might enjoy this ownership.
> 
> ...



I live in Northern Virginia and my hope with a timeshare purchase is to take trips worldwide.  This is also one of the reasons I went with RCI over HGVC because they're so heavily concentrated in the U.S. and you would have to trade with RCI to go elsewhere.  When you traded into RCI with HGVC, my understanding was that you would get an RCI gold crown week anywhere in the world but it didn't provide flexibility to use it for a few days versus the entire week.  

270,000 points is high but I was buying it to allow my family (my brothers and my parents) or co-workers to use too.  If it was just me, I would get much lower points and try to use it wisely.  When you're sharing points with others, it seemed like a good idea to get much more points so you have the flexibility to book just about anywhere even at a high point rate (especially if you can't find anything good at the Last Call points rate).

You're suggesting I go with memberships in multiple clubs like RCI, HGVC CMV, etc and go for biennial or triennial units?  Is there a benefit to get this versus one timeshare unit with CMV or RCI?  

I have stayed at Marriott timeshares before but haven't stayed at at HGVC timeshare or RCI associated resort.


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## gnorth16 (Jun 19, 2012)

You can use your HGVC points for non-week stays exchanged into RCI weeks inventory.  Not the best use of your HGVC points, but depending on the resort and time of year, it could be...


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## ampaholic (Jun 19, 2012)

Several points to consider:

First: RCI Points attracts a high percentage of "doggies" because of a timeshare phenomenon I call *Me*itis. The owner of a prime week (great location, great calendar, great rooms) will tend to keep their hooks in it for their own use - to heck with you. OTOH an owner of a "doggie" (poor location or poor calender or poor rooms) will tend to want to "exchange" it - let you use it while hoping to get a better unit for themselves.

RCI Points tends to attract doggies into its list since any timeshare (almost) can be converted - simple fact.

Second: You can't (legally) rent out an exchange - only an interval that you own can be rented.

You CAN "guest" an exchange but both Wyndham ($99) and RCI ($69) charge a fee for the privilege. Wyndham will give you a wink about charging (renting?) for the guesting to a non family member but RCI will cut your gizzard out if they catch you doing what they consider "their" thing (making a profit on an exchange).

Third: No one system can work for every situation every time as none are universal enough - each lacks something and has other things it is good at.

I would suggest you look into a week at a VRI managed resort as VRI*ity has inexpensive internal trades - *but it is mostly western states.*

Fourth: *EVERY* year (or quarter, or month) the HOA will want what they think of as their money and all too often they will want even *more* (a SA). This wanting money *NEVER stops *even if you don't want to vacation with them that year.

Measure twice - cut once.


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## chriskre (Jun 19, 2012)

tugger2020 said:


> I live in Northern Virginia and my hope with a timeshare purchase is to take trips worldwide.  This is also one of the reasons I went with RCI over HGVC because they're so heavily concentrated in the U.S. and you would have to trade with RCI to go elsewhere.  When you traded into RCI with HGVC, my understanding was that you would get an RCI gold crown week anywhere in the world but it didn't provide flexibility to use it for a few days versus the entire week.
> 
> 270,000 points is high but I was buying it to allow my family (my brothers and my parents) or co-workers to use too.  If it was just me, I would get much lower points and try to use it wisely.  When you're sharing points with others, it seemed like a good idea to get much more points so you have the flexibility to book just about anywhere even at a high point rate (especially if you can't find anything good at the Last Call points rate).
> 
> ...



You can use HGVC points in RCI points for short stays as well but unless it's top of the line resorts might not be the most cost effective use of points.

The only reason I suggest biennials or triennials and only after you have done a few TS stays, is that the rules are constantly changing on us.  It's almost a full time job to keep on top of all this stuff.  If you have the time then great, if not then you don't want to be stuck with something that just won't work anymore for you but you're stuck like Chuck with it cause no one wants South African units anymore.  

I'm saying, you're almost buying into old advice on how to use RCI from a broker who either hasn't kept up with the times or is selling what he knows and believes is best.  It may be, I dunno.   I personally don't want to buy a combo like he is offering you.  I think there are better options and much, much cheaper options.  For the money you are spending you can get top tier TS's that will work better for you IMO.  Personally, I'd rescind and hang out here for a few months and learn more cause you might regret this purchase when you know a little more.


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## tugger2020 (Jun 19, 2012)

I'm going to cancel the purchase I was going to make and possibly cut it down to one bedroom with 67,500 points yearly.  Thanks to everyone who provided feedback and went out of their way to give me advice.  

I'm going to look at biennial or triennial units.  That makes a lot of sense to me now as you bank the points for up to two years with most program anyway.  Plus it gets you into the system and give you the opportunity to book last calls with HGVC and RCI.  I'm assuming the others are the same.  

The yearly maintenance fees will be significantly less as well as the up-front costs. 

I'm going to read up more on the CMV units as that is still confusing me.


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## MichaelColey (Jun 19, 2012)

Okay, the international twist makes me lean away from suggesting any of the systems (Wyndham, HGVC, Marriott) and towards RCI (although probably Weeks rather than Points) or II.  That is one area where those two shine.  They have a lot of international choices.

But I'm still having a hard time getting a handle on what you're really looking for.  You've talked about "1 week of vacation", weekends, holidays, international travel, work stays, last minute travel, travel for others, and more.

No system is going to cover all of that, and to piece something together (like Christine suggests) might work, but it might also be expensive if you spread yourself too thin.  It's kind of like vacationing in Orlando and doing WDW, Universal, SeaWorld, LegoLand, Busch Gardens, Discovery Cove, and spend a day at the beach, too.  Diversification makes much more sense when you have a LOT of time available to travel.

I think you'll have to figure out what it is that's most important to you.


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## tugger2020 (Jun 19, 2012)

MichaelColey said:


> Okay, the international twist makes me lean away from suggesting any of the systems (Wyndham, HGVC, Marriott) and towards RCI (although probably Weeks rather than Points) or II.  That is one area where those two shine.  They have a lot of international choices.
> 
> But I'm still having a hard time getting a handle on what you're really looking for.  You've talked about "1 week of vacation", weekends, holidays, international travel, work stays, last minute travel, travel for others, and more.
> 
> ...



You are right. I was definitely trying to do it all with one system or was hoping to anyway.   I was betting on the fact that buying getting timeshares that give me enough points yearly would give me the flexibility to do just about anything whether it is weekend trips or a one week vacation yearly or for business travel at the last minute.  

I'm not picky where I stay so if it's not a gold crown resort for business travel, it's not a big deal because I figured it will save me significantly more than staying in a hotel.  Most of my travel will be to Florida (Miami, Ft Lauderdale area) and California (San Jose area), and NYC.  

Traveling internationally is important to me though.  While I do want to go to U.S. destinations, I definitely love traveling overseas.


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## MichaelColey (Jun 19, 2012)

tugger2020 said:


> Most of my travel will be to Florida (Miami, Ft Lauderdale area) and California (San Jose area), and NYC.


Florida is easy in the off season, but almost impossible in the peak season (or holidays).  California can be tough (and expensive).  NYC is almost impossible.

You might look at TUG's Timeshare Map and see which resorts are near the areas you're most interested in, and see if one of the systems (Wyndham, HGVC, Marriott, etc.) might have a better coverage for you.

None of those three really have much to choose from internationally.  You would probably need to exchange through RCI or II (which you can do with any of the three) for that.

I still lean towards Wyndham as being the best choice for you.  Or perhaps Wyndham plus a good II or RCI Weeks trader (like a lockoff Week 26 Branson unit for MFs around $500).


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## rickandcindy23 (Jun 19, 2012)

I would buy the deal he is being offered because it's similar to the deal I had for Aussie points way back when, although his deal has lower fees.  My fees at the time were around .0067 each, and now with the value of the dollar and the increase of fees at the resort, I am now over 1 cent each.  The dollar is at a low now, compared to other currency, so I assume maybe when the US economy improves, his fees will be cheaper for him in US dollars.  

I still am tempted by the CMV, but I forget to call Sheraton daily for inventory, so I know I would forget to call CMV, too. :rofl:


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## e.bram (Jun 19, 2012)

Beware. Most RCI points weeks are from converted all weeks resorts. Prime weeks owners by and large do not convert, but use or rent. Dog weeks owners convert hoping to get prime weeks which don't exist as converted prime weeks. So you will be competing for the same nonexistant prime weeks if you purchase them.


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## rickandcindy23 (Jun 19, 2012)

e.bram said:


> Beware. Most RCI points weeks are from converted all weeks resorts. Prime weeks owners by and large do not convert, but use or rent. Dog weeks owners convert hoping to get prime weeks which don't exist as converted prime weeks. So you will be competing for the same nonexistant prime weeks if you purchase them.



Another negative post from e.bram.  I am so surprised.   

Seriously, I would have done it, if this was offered five years ago, when I got my Aussie points.  I think it's a better deal than my Aussie points were back then, and now they are no bargain with the value of the dollar as it is today.  

You still might want to talk to Brucecz.  He is very good at the CMV Timbers UDI's.  

But I have to be honest and say I would jump with both feet into what you were offered because I am loving RCI Points.  I seriously wish I could dump what I have and go your route.  But that would be nuts.  I also own Foxhills in WI in RCI Points, and I am a little under 1 cent there.  My Points for Deposit are cheap at .0076, but that is high compared to what you are getting.


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## tugger2020 (Jun 19, 2012)

rickandcindy23 said:


> Another negative post from e.bram.  I am so surprised.
> 
> Seriously, I would have done it, if this was offered five years ago, when I got my Aussie points.  I think it's a better deal than my Aussie points were back then, and now they are no bargain with the value of the dollar as it is today.
> 
> ...



Have you had pretty good experiences with RCI?  I'm guessing it can be pretty good as long as you don't hope to get an awesome resort last minute but plan it out months to a year in advance?


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## ampaholic (Jun 19, 2012)

tugger2020 said:


> Have you had pretty good experiences with RCI?  I'm guessing it can be pretty good as long as you don't hope to get an awesome resort last minute but plan it out months to a year in advance?



To me the three most important things to consider with RCI Points are:

1. your home resort and home group matters - because - you get a 303 day or less booking window at all points resorts (good), but you get 304-334 days out at your home group (better) and you get 335-364 days out at your home resort (best).
For example we have Meadow Lake for a home resort where we like to go often, so I can book late June 2013 *now* long before any non owners can. I can also often get a weekend there at the last minute.
I also have Grandview as a home resort (I have 5 home resorts) so I am grouped with all the Dailymanagement group and can get reservations 304-334 days out - before any other RCI Points members can (except the home resort owners).

Oh, and when you book into your home resort within the owners ARP you will only need to pay between zero and $40 bucks for a reservation! Cheap, cheap, cheap.

2. *Don't get too many points* - I have 213K points every year and would actually like to have fewer (maybe 140K) - such is life.
Go here to see how many points you'll need to do what you want to do. You can always rent more points to fill out a vacation - but having extra can be an issue to use before they expire (but not as bad as a week you can't use IMO).

3. When you buy don't overpay: A real smokin' solid deal is less than a penny per point in MF's costs along with closing under $300 and this years points thrown in for for free. A reasonable deal would be points @ a penny to 1.5 cents each in MF's along with $500 in closing and no free points IF it's at a resort you want for a home resort.

3a. A red week gives you more points per MF (generally) than a white or blue week.

I own a Red week 1bed Triennial at Grandview for which I get 16,337 points every year for $113 MF each year - and I'll never set foot on the Grandview Grounds, I use the points to go elsewhere. I bought it for $52. (plus 300 closing) on eBay - I'm happy with that.


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## ampaholic (Jun 19, 2012)

rickandcindy23 said:


> Another negative post from e.bram.  I am so surprised.



But a rare accurate statement from our favorite "guest".

Re RCI:

I had to get an MROP membership to get the summer units I wanted at Kala Point and along the Oregon and Washington coast.

RCI Points general reservation window is only 10 months out, so it is a poor performer for premium weeks.

RCI Points are great for last minute, long stays, and low seasons but the top weeks just don't make it through the gauntlet to the opening of the 10 month window - with my MROP I can reserve Kala Point and along the Oregon and Washington coast 20 months out. I can also reserve Jackson Hole, Island Park and several desirable ski resorts 18 months or 16 months out.

The day the 10 month window opens there is nothing (*nada, zip, zilch*) for Yellowstone, Jackson Hole, Coast of Oregon, or Quality Pacific coast resorts because the owners (like me with MROP) have gobbled up the premium weeks at 18 or 16 or 14 or 12 months out.

RCI Points are great for "overbuilt" areas such as Las Vegas and Hawaii since there are "lots" of premium weeks, just don't expect to get a whale watching week on Maui.


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## tugger2020 (Jun 19, 2012)

ampaholic said:


> To me the three most important things to consider with RCI Points are:
> 
> 1. your home resort and home group matters - because - you get a 303 day or less booking window at all points resorts (good), but you get 304-334 days out at your home group (better) and you get 335-364 days out at your home resort (best).
> For example we have Meadow Lake for a home resort where we like to go often, so I can book late June 2013 *now* long before any non owners can. I can also often get a weekend there at the last minute.
> ...



That link in the forum for the points chart wouldn't work for me before or now.  Is this the chart you meant? 

http://www.rci.com/GPN/CDA/Common/pdf/RCI_ExGridsUpdate1.pdf

Thanks for the advice.  I'll likely just get one of these RCI points timeshares and look into HGVC or another timeshare.  

What's MROP membership?


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## ampaholic (Jun 19, 2012)

tugger2020 said:


> That link in the forum for the points chart wouldn't work for me before or now.  Is this the chart you meant?
> 
> http://www.rci.com/GPN/CDA/Common/pdf/RCI_ExGridsUpdate1.pdf
> 
> ...



Yea, I fixed my link - thanks.

*M*ulti *R*esort* O*wnership *P*lan - Mostly western states and Hawaii.


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## tugger2020 (Jun 19, 2012)

ampaholic said:


> Yea, I fixed my link - thanks.
> 
> *M*ulti *R*esort* O*wnership *P*lan - Mostly western states and Hawaii.



You have to buy into one of their associated resorts to get a MROP membership?  Does that get associated somehow with RCI or do you start booking through VRI*ety Exchange?


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## ampaholic (Jun 19, 2012)

tugger2020 said:


> You have to buy into one of their associated resorts to get a MROP membership?  Does that get associated somehow with RCI or do you start booking through VRI*ety Exchange?



No you can sometimes find an MROP for sale on eBay or TUG marketplace for a few hundred bucks or you can buy one direct from MROP for $8000. Me, I would search MROP on eBay in the timeshare section from time to time if I wanted another one.

MROP is managed by VRI so if you are an MROP member you automatically have access to VRI*ity.

Once I reserve a week with my MROP membership I can:
A. use it 
B. give it away to a friend or family (no extra charge for guest fee)
C. Rent it to anyone (still no charge for a guest fee)
D. Deposit it to II (if I am a member of II)
E. Deposit it to RCI Weeks (if I am an RCI Weeks member)
F. Deposit it to RCI Points (using PFD if I have an RCI Points membership)
G. Deposit it to VRI*ity 
H. Deposit it to Platinum Interchange
I. Deposit it to almost any other exchange co. EXCEPT SFX (they only take certain weeks)

So one of the things I like about MROP is the versatility.


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## rickandcindy23 (Jun 19, 2012)

tugger2020 said:


> Have you had pretty good experiences with RCI?  I'm guessing it can be pretty good as long as you don't hope to get an awesome resort last minute but plan it out months to a year in advance?



I love several different exchanges I get with RCI Points, which are not easy to get in RCI weeks.  I have seen Disney resorts just sitting online in RCI Points, but I rarely see those resorts in weeks.  I saw some Christmas weeks at Disney's Grand Californian, even 2 bedrooms!  And the cost was much cheaper than I would pay for the same with my DVC points.  

I have also seen more Bay Lake Tower (also DVC) in RCI Points.  I think Aulani (also DVC but it's Disney's Oahu resort) will be in Points, and I doubt any will be visible in weeks.  I have ongoing searches in weeks set up for two years down the road.  

I love Wyndham Shearwater and see it cheaply for the times of year we go.  82K points is awesome for Shearwater.  My average point cost is around .0084 per point, and my MF's for Shearwater (we own two weeks) is $1,200.  I can exchange into the resort cheaper than I can use my own weeks.  

Anaheim and Northern California--low RCI Points for full week stays, and it's such a bargain for me.  WorldMark was on RCI Points today for about 31K points for a 2 bedroom.  San Francisco, there was a Nob Hill Inn 1 bed for a measly 19,500, and it was not last-minute.  

Don't use nightly stays.  The housekeeping fees are a dealbreaker for me.  

All that being said, because my point cost is not what it used to be way back when, I don't really like the expensive exchanges, like Disney in summer for 68K points.  That's terrible for a 1 bedroom.  The same 1 bedroom is only 41K in early December and most of January.  I love those exchanges.  

I just happen to think RCI has their values messed up.  Some are very favorable compared to weeks, while others are not a good value.  You have to use common sense.  I have a lot of it.  

Even with all of this common sense, I am wishing I could afford to buy the RCI Points you are buying.  I think the low fees are well worth it.  I would ask for a guarantee that the fees wouldn't increase more than 5% per year for the next five years.


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## tugger2020 (Jun 19, 2012)

ampaholic said:


> No you can sometimes find an MROP for sale on eBay or TUG marketplace for a few hundred bucks or you can buy one direct from MROP for $8000. Me, I would search MROP on eBay in the timeshare section from time to time if I wanted another one.
> 
> MROP is managed by VRI so if you are an MROP member you automatically have access to VRI*ity.
> 
> ...



Very cool, thanks for the clarification.  Their website is not very informative at all.  It sounds like a great deal especially if you can find for a few hundred bucks on eBay like you mentioned.


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## tugger2020 (Jun 19, 2012)

rickandcindy23 said:


> I love several different exchanges I get with RCI Points, which are not easy to get in RCI weeks.  I have seen Disney resorts just sitting online in RCI Points, but I rarely see those resorts in weeks.  I saw some Christmas weeks at Disney's Grand Californian, even 2 bedrooms!  And the cost was much cheaper than I would pay for the same with my DVC points.
> 
> I have also seen more Bay Lake Tower (also DVC) in RCI Points.  I think Aulani (also DVC but it's Disney's Oahu resort) will be in Points, and I doubt any will be visible in weeks.  I have ongoing searches in weeks set up for two years down the road.
> 
> ...



Wow this is awesome.  This is RCI points usage in action and kind of what I was hoping to do if I ever got the points.   The responses I've been reading sound like it is hard to do what you described or isn't easy with RCI to do anymore.  

I asked about the increase in fees guarantee when I was initially negotiating but the response I got was that wasn't something they really could promise or guarantee me.


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## rickandcindy23 (Jun 20, 2012)

Did this seller give you an opportunity to search RCI Points with a "play" account?  I know Scott Riddle allows prospective buyers to play around with RCI Points to get an idea of what's there.  He sells RCI Points on eBay and has a similar name to the company you are using, but his deals are in Texas with South African weeks you use for PFD to add more points cheaply.  

I noticed the Hiltons on the Big Island are pretty reasonable in RCI Points.  I don't care to go to the Big Island again, but I was tempted by those in RCI Points.  If I ever did go to the Big Island, I would definitely want to stay at the Hiltons.   Nothing else would do.  

People always say to buy where you want to go.  I tried to do that, and now we own way too many places.  We love Branson, so I bought the best in Branson--I bought two Marriott Platinum Branson weeks.  

We love South Carolina, so I bought Sheraton Broadway Plantation--several weeks there.

We love Colorado and live here.  We own five weeks in Colorado.  Yes, we use them all.

I couldn't bring myself to buy Orlando (we do own DVC, though), even though we go 8 weeks per year.  It's too easy to get nice Marriott's and Sheratons with the Colorado weeks, so why buy?  We also get 2 bedrooms for the lockoff sides of our Sheraton Broadway Plantations.  Cheap to go to Orlando and stay at the best places.   

We wanted to stay in North Carolina one week on the way to Myrtle Beach so we bought Blue Ridge Village.  Love that one but dislike the management company.

We love San Francisco and Anaheim so bought Shell Points (got them free).  

We have a whole lot of weeks that we will use much of the time, but it was important for us to be able to exchange those weeks for the other places we want to go, like San Antonio, Orlando, Williamsburg (we own Wyn points there), New York City, Cape Cod, Gatlinburg, Nashville, Yellowstone Park, Washington State, Wash D.C., and the list goes on.  We couldn't own everywhere.  

We own a lot of Maui and Kauai weeks.  I don't even want to tell you how many, I am so shocked myself.  We want to go to Hawaii from January-early March when we retire.  And really, who needs to even use our own weeks, when exchanging is cheaper to Shearwater?  I am sorry I bought some of the stuff I bought.  Rick just goes along with whatever I do.


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## tugger2020 (Jun 20, 2012)

Wow you own a lot of timeshares.  Isn't the maintenance costs a lot every year?  If you do a lot of traveling, I'm sure it comes out cheaper than paying for hotels.


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## chriskre (Jun 20, 2012)

ampaholic said:


> Once I reserve a week with my MROP membership I can:
> A. use it
> B. give it away to a friend or family (no extra charge for guest fee)
> C. Rent it to anyone (still no charge for a guest fee)
> ...



You can do all this with a CMV also. 

Now that you say you want to come to my home town of Miami  and Ft. Lauderdale, I think you should definitely look into BG and HGVC points.

BG has a really nice boutique TS in Surfside called Solara.  It's almost an impossible trade with II and RCI but very doable with BG and if you bought there you could get bonus time also.  Cheap rentals within 30 days.

HGVC also has a resort on South beach but I'm not real fond of being right in South beach, but if you like that sort of party atmosphere you may like it.  HGVC also has those short stay Open season rental options available to you in the club and there is usually good availability many times of the year.

In RCI points there is a resort in Sunny Isles that is also usually available and you could do short stays or long stays there.  It's called Golden Strand.  I like the resort as long as my unit doesn't face Collins Ave.  The nice thing about RCI points is that if there is availability you only pay one flat exchange fee even if it's 30 days in a row.  I have seen this resort available for a full month at a time in RCI points.  

Ft. Laud. beach resort is also readily available in RCI points.  I used to own there and it's a nice resort in a good location.  

If you just wanted to be in Broward County there is always last call rentals in RCI for Vacation Vilage at Weston, Bonaventure and Mizner place.  No need to exchange in there and waste your points.


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## rickandcindy23 (Jun 20, 2012)

tugger2020 said:


> Wow you own a lot of timeshares.  Isn't the maintenance costs a lot every year?  If you do a lot of traveling, I'm sure it comes out cheaper than paying for hotels.



We rent out some of the weeks we own, plus we rent Wyndham points to others.  I don't like the low trading power of my Kauai weeks.  I never trade our Maui weeks.  We go to Kauai only two weeks a year, currently, and we own five weeks there.  I am getting a bad deal for exchanges.  I hope to get something in San Francisco through Hawaiian for my deposits, but I could be out of luck for such a difficult exchange, because I want late May-early June.  

I always have Shell to use for SF.  It's a guarantee I will get something there, as long as I book soon.


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## SOS8260456 (Jun 20, 2012)

Didn't read all the posts but you have some very knowledgeable Tuggers responding.   My biggest worry about investing in that many RCI points is what happens if you can't use them for some reason?  RCI prohibits the renting of reservations made with points so unless the underlying weeks/units are good rentable ones then you are sort of stuck.  This was one reason we went with a mini point system.  Wyndham worked best for us but other point systems work better for different reasons for other people.

Christmas Mountain may be giving units away right now but we are looking at a definate special assessment in the very near future. I also suspect that with more and more Tuggers purchasing them they may not be as great of a deal as they currently are.

Anyway good luck with your search.  Just remember to do your own double checking of information.


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## tugger2020 (Jun 20, 2012)

rickandcindy23 said:


> We rent out some of the weeks we own, plus we rent Wyndham points to others.  I don't like the low trading power of my Kauai weeks.  I never trade our Maui weeks.  We go to Kauai only two weeks a year, currently, and we own five weeks there.  I am getting a bad deal for exchanges.  I hope to get something in San Francisco through Hawaiian for my deposits, but I could be out of luck for such a difficult exchange, because I want late May-early June.
> 
> I always have Shell to use for SF.  It's a guarantee I will get something there, as long as I book soon.



That's is cool, if you can get good properties that rent well, it's all good.  I'm getting hooked on this, man...it's addicting.  In a decade, I'll own tons of properties and will have quit my day job to manage this addiction full-time.  One can only dream...;-)


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## tugger2020 (Jun 20, 2012)

chriskre said:


> You can do all this with a CMV also.
> 
> Now that you say you want to come to my home town of Miami  and Ft. Lauderdale, I think you should definitely look into BG and HGVC points.
> 
> ...



I am very much researching HGVC and Wyndham now, leaning more towards HGVC just because I have Hilton membership as well.  I haven't heard so much of BG until I heard about the CMV UDI aspect.   Is it recommended over HGVC or Wyndham?   

I am very much looking at HGVC through an affiliate as a way of getting into their system affordably.  GPP in California seems to have an awesome deal where you can buy from the resort resale department directly and they give you prices that were competitive to eBay or even on this forum.  Plus the main perk is that the HGVC points you get still count towards Elite.  Not a big deal elsewhere but if the prices are similar elsewhere, I figured why not?   Plus it would make sense when I stay at the Hilton hotels.  

Does anyone recommend any HGVC affiliates over GPP?   They seem to be the only one I've seen where resales directly from them is offered at good prices.


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## tugger2020 (Jun 20, 2012)

SOS8260456 said:


> Didn't read all the posts but you have some very knowledgeable Tuggers responding.   My biggest worry about investing in that many RCI points is what happens if you can't use them for some reason?  RCI prohibits the renting of reservations made with points so unless the underlying weeks/units are good rentable ones then you are sort of stuck.  This was one reason we went with a mini point system.  Wyndham worked best for us but other point systems work better for different reasons for other people.
> 
> Christmas Mountain may be giving units away right now but we are looking at a definate special assessment in the very near future. I also suspect that with more and more Tuggers purchasing them they may not be as great of a deal as they currently are.
> 
> Anyway good luck with your search.  Just remember to do your own double checking of information.



I'm pretty much killed the idea of getting a lot RCI points.  It's either one unit or none and looking more at HGVC.  I've definitely been lucky to have the pros chime in here to stop me from getting so much.  

While CMV sounds interesting, I'm don't think it's for me.  From everything I've been reading on it and the posts on here, it's an awesome deal for those who can work the system.


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## tugger2020 (Jun 21, 2012)

*SFX?*

I was looking into HGVC at GPP and saw another post regarding SFX.  I just checked out the SFX website and their resort directory has some great places.  Since most of the HGVC units are in the U.S. and Mexico, is this a good way to get to international locations?   Is it a one for one trade....meaning one week at HGVC deposited with SFX or is there additional fees on top of that?  I saw gold membership is free but anything higher starts at the listed price but there's no limit to what it could go up to.  

Is this a recommended way to go?


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## tugger2020 (Jun 21, 2012)

rickandcindy23 said:


> I love several different exchanges I get with RCI Points, which are not easy to get in RCI weeks.  I have seen Disney resorts just sitting online in RCI Points, but I rarely see those resorts in weeks.  I saw some Christmas weeks at Disney's Grand Californian, even 2 bedrooms!  And the cost was much cheaper than I would pay for the same with my DVC points.
> 
> I have also seen more Bay Lake Tower (also DVC) in RCI Points.  I think Aulani (also DVC but it's Disney's Oahu resort) will be in Points, and I doubt any will be visible in weeks.  I have ongoing searches in weeks set up for two years down the road.
> 
> ...



Is it easy or straight forward to get bookings at HGVC resorts with RCI points? I see that they are all Gold Crown resorts.  

Also, what did you mean housekeeping fees on nightly stays?  You have to pay fees for that on top of your booking/reservation cost?


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## vacationhopeful (Jun 21, 2012)

tugger2020 said:


> ...Also, what did you mean housekeeping fees on nightly stays?  You have to pay fees for that on top of your booking/reservation cost?



RCI Points resorts charge Housekeeping Fees - mostly IF you book less than a 7 night stay. The original timeshare model was a WEEK stay and that is what the resorts base their cost structure and MFs on. If you stay less than the 7 nights, another FULL service housekeeping /unit reset is required for the NEXT guest of that week. You PAY for the priviledge of a short stay via the housekeeping fee.


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## tugger2020 (Jun 21, 2012)

vacationhopeful said:


> RCI Points resorts charge Housekeeping Fees - mostly IF you book less than a 7 night stay. The original timeshare model was a WEEK stay and that is what the resorts base their cost structure and MFs on. If you stay less than the 7 nights, another FULL service housekeeping /unit reset is required for the NEXT guest of that week. You PAY for the priviledge of a short stay via the housekeeping fee.



Thanks.  Does this fee vary from resort to resort or is it fixed?  Booking fees + housekeeping fees could add up each time you travel. 

Is this an RCI only thing or HGVC, Wyndham and the other resorts charge this as well?

Also, if you book an RCI resort with HGVC points...do you have to pay the RCI fees and housekeeping fees on top of the HGVC booking fee?


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## chriskre (Jun 21, 2012)

tugger2020 said:


> I am very much researching HGVC and Wyndham now, leaning more towards HGVC just because I have Hilton membership as well.  I haven't heard so much of BG until I heard about the CMV UDI aspect.   Is it recommended over HGVC or Wyndham?
> 
> Does anyone recommend any HGVC affiliates over GPP?   They seem to be the only one I've seen where resales directly from them is offered at good prices.



No BG is not recommended over the others but is in the same league.  You should look at the resort collection in each of the systems and decide for yourself if those are places that you will want to visit.  

BG has some unique offerings but then so does Wyndham.  Hilton not so much unless you count the affiliates.  It's all in where you like to vacation that will determine what to buy.  Since I like to vacation everywhere I bought into all of them.   



tugger2020 said:


> I'm pretty much killed the idea of getting a lot RCI points.  It's either one unit or none and looking more at HGVC.  I've definitely been lucky to have the pros chime in here to stop me from getting so much.
> 
> While CMV sounds interesting, I'm don't think it's for me.  From everything I've been reading on it and the posts on here, it's an awesome deal for those who can work the system.



RCI points is good for trading into the cheap stuff in RCI points.  Some things are expensive in RCI thru HGVC points and some things are not.  Every resort is different and there is also seasonal variability.  



tugger2020 said:


> I was looking into HGVC at GPP and saw another post regarding SFX.  I just checked out the SFX website and their resort directory has some great places.  Since most of the HGVC units are in the U.S. and Mexico, is this a good way to get to international locations?   Is it a one for one trade....meaning one week at HGVC deposited with SFX or is there additional fees on top of that?  I saw gold membership is free but anything higher starts at the listed price but there's no limit to what it could go up to.
> 
> Is this a recommended way to go?



SFX is strong in some locations and weak in others.  They pride themselves on being a boutique exchange company that only takes prime deposits at prime resorts.  

It is a one for one technically but they give you all kinds of tiers of membership if you pay for it which entitles you to "lifestyle" weeks and bonus weeks at reduced prices.  Basically a cheap rental.   Not giveaway prices but they have a sliding scale depending on the type of membership you have.  With the basic gold membership you pay the most.  

They also do this "cash card" thing which honestly, I don't really understand, but it seems to be some sort of rebate for paying the higher membership fees.  You can credit it towards those rentals to bring the price down really cheap.  I'm thinking I've seen Manhattan Club weeks for something as low as $299 with their cash card offers which is a great deal if you want to go there.  I've also seen stuff like that in London's Sloan Gardens.  

If you buy your HGVC unit from Seth Nock he will give you an SFX Platinum membership for free with your purchase for one year.


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## chriskre (Jun 21, 2012)

tugger2020 said:


> Is it easy or straight forward to get bookings at HGVC resorts with RCI points? I see that they are all Gold Crown resorts.
> 
> Also, what did you mean housekeeping fees on nightly stays?  You have to pay fees for that on top of your booking/reservation cost?



If you book 10 months out and are flexible there are HGVC units deposited into RCI points.  

Yes you pay a housekeeping fee on top of the exchange fee.  :annoyed: 
That goes to the resort.  It makes many short stays not worth it IMO.  



tugger2020 said:


> Thanks.  Does this fee vary from resort to resort or is it fixed?  Booking fees + housekeeping fees could add up each time you travel.
> 
> Is this an RCI only thing or HGVC, Wyndham and the other resorts charge this as well?
> 
> Also, if you book an RCI resort with HGVC points...do you have to pay the RCI fees and housekeeping fees on top of the HGVC booking fee?



It's a resort thing not an RCI thing.  RCI is just warning you that you will be charged when you book so you don't get a big surprise at check out.  I've had some of the resorts forget to charge me.  

HGVC doesn't technically charge housekeeping fees but they charge a reservation fee for each booking no matter how long or short so in a sense I believe it's a housekeeping fee in disguise.  

Wyndham has a complicated housekeeping token system which gives you so many housekeeping credits per year per number of points.  If you do lots of 2 bedroom short stays you can easily run out of housekeeping credits and end up borrowing from future years or paying cash for the cleaning.


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## rickandcindy23 (Jun 21, 2012)

I was just thinking today what an amazing thing it is that people go to a timeshare sales presentation and learn about some points system, and they walk out of there with a contract in their hands after taking every word the salesman says as gospel.  Amazing. 

I just talked to a woman today who went to a point presentation on Maui, specifically RCI Points, and she signed on the dotted line.  She was told she could get 10-12 weeks per year with her points at her home resort because _Maui is so desirable_.  Fees are around .014 each, and you know what she told me?  She said she wants to use the Maui week most years, probably 3 out of 4 years!  Why did you buy that for $8K?  The resort paid RCI $199 for what you paid them $8K to get.  She gets 98,000 points per year.  AWFUL.  

She said, "Can I cancel?"  "When did you sign the contract?"  "April 9th."  

I met this woman in the hot tub last year and gave her my TUG information and my phone number.


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## tugger2020 (Jun 21, 2012)

chriskre said:


> If you book 10 months out and are flexible there are HGVC units deposited into RCI points.
> 
> Yes you pay a housekeeping fee on top of the exchange fee.  :annoyed:
> That goes to the resort.  It makes many short stays not worth it IMO.
> ...



Geez, RCI can get expensive with the reservation fees and housekeeping fees.  If I'm looking at this right, you can easily spend up to $200 or more each time you book a reservation then with these fees.


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## JohnPaul (Jun 21, 2012)

*Good points to MF ratio*

I think that 270,000 RCI points for $1500 MF is a great deal.  I get 144,500 for about $1300 in MF and thought I was doing well.


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## ampaholic (Jun 21, 2012)

JohnPaul said:


> I think that 270,000 RCI points for $1500 MF is a great deal.  I get 144,500 for about $1300 in MF and thought I was doing well.



But, I think the OP has discovered that this is more points than he can readily use. 

It's *not* a good deal if you don't need it and can't use it. But you are right that is a lot of cheap "vacation power".


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## tugger2020 (Jun 21, 2012)

JohnPaul said:


> I think that 270,000 RCI points for $1500 MF is a great deal.  I get 144,500 for about $1300 in MF and thought I was doing well.



Yeah I still don't think it is too bad of a deal.  Purchase cost is 4600 GBP (roughly $7200) for the 270,000 points or 3500 GBP (roughly $5500) for 250,000 points.  Maintenance fees are 940 GBP/1166 Euros for 2012 which roughly converts to about $1466 a year in maintenance fees for the 270,000 points.  For the 250,000 it is 900 GBP/1116 Euros which roughly converts to about $1400 a year in maintenance fees.  *This is not including the RCI membership yearly cost.  

The thing that I'm realizing now is that RCI membership will add up over time with the added costs per reservation and it seem like you have to reserve way in advance to try to get the properties you want, if they are even still available.


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## MichaelColey (Jun 22, 2012)

chriskre said:


> It's all in where you like to vacation that will determine what to buy. Since I like to vacation everywhere I bought into all of them.


Yes, but the OP and most other people don't vacation as much as you or Joan or Cindy or I do. We got a lot of efficiencies out of multiple ownerships that people who only take 1-3 weeks a year of vacation could never come close to getting.


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## chriskre (Jun 22, 2012)

MichaelColey said:


> Yes, but the OP and most other people don't vacation as much as you or Joan or Cindy or I do. We got a lot of efficiencies out of multiple ownerships that people who only take 1-3 weeks a year of vacation could never come close to getting.



True Michael, but if the OP is planning to give vacations to his employees, then he might be in our league sooner than he thinks.


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## bshmerlie (Jun 29, 2012)

I am a business owner as well and do the exact same thing as the OP is suggesting.  I give my employees vacations as little perks or I let them stay any remaining days of a week that I'm not staying the whole week at.  I have been using RCI points now for several years and I'm not sure why there are so many complaints about them....I havent really had any bad experiences with them.  Knock on wood.  I have exchanged into Disney, various So Cal beach resorts during summer months as well as most holidays.  You just have to be diligent in your seaches. I'm honestly happy with them.


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## tugger2020 (Jun 29, 2012)

bshmerlie said:


> I am a business owner as well and do the exact same thing as the OP is suggesting.  I give my employees vacations as little perks or I let them stay any remaining days of a week that I'm not staying the whole week at.  I have been using RCI points now for several years and I'm not sure why there are so many complaints about them....I havent really had any bad experiences with them.  Knock on wood.  I have exchanged into Disney, various So Cal beach resorts during summer months as well as most holidays.  You just have to be diligent in your seaches. I'm honestly happy with them.



Thanks bshmerlie.  I sent you a PM but figured this would be valuable information to post.

Were you able to write off the timeshare up-front purchase cost as a business expense?  Are you able to write off the yearly maintenance fees?

It seems to me like this would be allowed as long as the timeshare is bought and used for business purposes or for entertainment that all employees have the right to use.  I'm curious to see what would be the best way to go about this without getting into trouble with the IRS.


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