# Bidding on eBay for Wyndham points



## Poeticmoe (Oct 13, 2011)

Hi everyone - this is my very post post on TUG!   I have been 'watching' an auction on eBay for a timeshare sale of Wyndham points.  My question is, if I place a bid on this auction and end up winning the bid, is there something I should request from the eBay seller before I send them any money?  Like some sort of document or confirmation?  Just want to make sure I cover all bases before I send the seller any money to complete the transaction.  Any advice is most appreciated!!

Thank you.

Monique


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## am1 (Oct 13, 2011)

contract.  

Quite likely there will be issues with the transfer even with one.  That just  says what you are entitled to.


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## Cheryl20772 (Oct 13, 2011)

Welcome, Monique  

If you are sure you want to take on the fees obligation that goes with owning a timeshare, today's market is full of rock bottom prices for new owners.

Many of the sellers don't know much about timeshares and list the info they get from the person who actually owns the contract they are selling.  These people don't necessarily know what they actually own too.

This means that many details you need to know are incorrectly listed or missing from the listing.

By reading the forum you can learn what to look out for and ask your buyer - such as is it an every year contract or an every other year contract - is it points or a fixed/ floating week.  Are there any special assessments current or expected soon?  

After you buy, you will want to see a purchase agreement/contract and an estoppel letter.  These tell you whether or not the mortgage is paid and taxes or fees are current and any special information such as unused time that's banked/pooled/unused.  You'll also want to know any closing fees and who pays them (buyer or seller).  Will a closing/escrow company be needed?

There are probably more things to want to know pertaining to different resorts.  If you read about specific resorts and ask in their forums, the forum members owning there can help you.  This pertains to different Wyndham resorts too as some are older and were converted from fixed weeks to points.  Their fees are different.  So ask!  And best wishes


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## ronparise (Oct 14, 2011)

I think the best protection is to know what you are buying, ie if its wyndham points, you should know the wyndham system fairly well. That way you can spot the "mistakes' in the listings, and know whats a good deal and whats not. The wyndham directory is here for your learning experience

Also you should know your seller. Look for the guys with lots of deals behind them and good feedback. There are posts here on tug where we have posted our experiences with most of the big guys on ebay...The guys at CJ timeshares publish their phone numbers in their ebay ads. My experience with them is that they return phone calls and that they answer questions and that they stand behind their product.


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## persia (Oct 14, 2011)

I second the opinion that you need to understand the Wyndham system first.  Pay attention to the maintenance fees.  If you want a highly desirable week in a specific resort you need to buy there for the ARP privileges.  For example if you want a three bedroom presidential in August in Glacier Canyon, you likely need ARP.  If a 2 Bedroom deluxe is ok they you can own anywhere.  Myrtle Beach has a lot of days and places that you might need ARP for.  If you do need to these kind of special requirements you should ask about them here or on forums.atozed.com

If you don't have these special needs then look to low maintenance fees.  These  fees vary for $10 a thousand to $4 a thousand.  Outside your home resort POINTS ARE POINTS.

Don't over or under buy.  Figure out where and when you want to go and how many points that would be and try to buy a package near that.  

Don't be hooked by promises of VIP.  VIP does not transfer to non-relatives.


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## wwoods1 (Oct 14, 2011)

Ron, just another quick note of thank you.  I appreciate the new 2011-2012 guide.  I believe that the sticky at the top of the forum still has the 2009-2010 guide.


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## ronparise (Oct 14, 2011)

wwoods1 said:


> Ron, just another quick note of thank you.  I appreciate the new 2011-2012 guide.  I believe that the sticky at the top of the forum still has the 2009-2010 guide.



It is still the old one...perhaps one of the mods can make the change for us

There no difference  when it comes to the rules and how the system works; at least no difference I have found

The new book doeshave the new resorts


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## Poeticmoe (Oct 17, 2011)

Thank you so much for all of your feedback!  I've spent the last several days reading up on posts and learning as much as I can.  I'm currently watching a bid from CJ Timeshares and have spoken to them as well.  Will keep you posted of the outcome.

Thanks again!


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## JimMIA (Oct 17, 2011)

Take your time in researching BEFORE you buy on eBay (or anywhere else).  Before I bought, I researched here and elsewhere for about three months.

On eBay, you should be able to buy a contract for little or nothing.  

But you'd better know what you're bidding on.  Understand that Wyndham contracts come with different Use Years, and they also come in Annual and Every-Other-Year contracts (usually specified as Even Year or Odd Year).  

Check the math carefully on the listings, because as already mentioned, the listing brokers are often clueless about Wyndham and the listings are often inaccurate.  To make matters worse, eBay doesn't allow listings to be changed if mistakes are discovered.

Before you waste your time bidding on an eBay auction, watch a few you find interesting.  

In particular, watch the last few minutes.  If an auction is contested, you'll find that the selling price is established in the last few seconds by automatic bids.  You need to understand that process and play it to be successful in contested auctions.


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## JimMIA (Oct 17, 2011)

Oh...and WELCOME to TUG!

Seriously -- take your time.  There will be a great listing today...and another one tomorrow, and the next day and the next.  Another great listing will always come along

Don't focus on one opportunity; you'll get overanxious and buy something you don't understand or pay WAY too much.  Don't get caught up in the chase.


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## simpsontruckdriver (Oct 21, 2011)

I purchased my 128k points from CJ Timeshares (out of Orlando). Anyway, the best bet is to research the company using their ratings. I found one timeshare resale with only 100 reviews and about 50% rating. Definitely not! But, places like CJ Timeshares has been around for a long time. Plan on paying about $299 transfer and $200-$435 for Closing Costs. You can also search on eBay for "Wyndham points charity", where you only pay for the bid price (seller pays all closing costs) and your bid is tax-deductible.
Also, plan on 60 days to go from paying your bid/costs to Wyndham giving you your timeshare.


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## JimMIA (Oct 21, 2011)

For the actual bidding process on eBay, I would figure out a max price and STICK TO IT!  If you watch the ends of a few auctions, you will see people get carried away and the selling price explode in the last minute or two.  Don't get caught up in that.

I'd also research *automatic bids *and do some hypothetical drills with actual auctions estimating what you would be willing to pay, how you'd set up your automatic bids and when you'd initiate them.

One hint about automatic bids.  The minimum bid increase changes as the bid increases.  You need to know where it changes and set your auto bid up accordingly or your bids will cease when you cross over a threshhold and a higher increase is required.

There are also individuals out there in Internetland who will handle the bidding for you for a fee.  Don't know anything about them other than they exist, so I can't give you a recommendation.


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## djohn75087 (Oct 21, 2011)

*you can negotiate on price*

I found points on ebay a few weeks ago that I wanted. They wanted the usual $400 closing cost and $299 resort transfer fee. About 4 days before the auction ended with no one having bid on it I sent an email to the seller saying I would bid on it if they paid closing. They sent me an email back basically saying no. When I went back the last day of the auction they had changed it to no closing cost and I ended up getting it for $1 plus tranfer fee. Guess I would have asked for no transfer fee but I really wanted b/c of $4.12/1000 bringing my average down to $4.20/1000 plus .51 prigram fee. Hopefully, that will be the last time I need to buy.


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## JimMIA (Oct 21, 2011)

djohn75087 said:


> I found points on ebay a few weeks ago that I wanted. They wanted the usual $400 closing cost and $299 resort transfer fee. About 4 days before the auction ended with no one having bid on it I sent an email to the seller saying I would bid on it if they paid closing. They sent me an email back basically saying no. When I went back the last day of the auction they had changed it to no closing cost and I ended up getting it for $1 plus tranfer fee. Guess I would have asked for no transfer fee but I really wanted b/c of $4.12/1000 bringing my average down to $4.20/1000 plus .51 prigram fee. Hopefully, that will be the last time I need to buy.


Good advice.

The other suggestion I have is to be aware of ALL auctions going on for the kind of contract (resort, number of points, etc) you're interested in.  Often on eBay, we focus on the auctions that are expiring right away, and that's a mistake.

When we finally bought, one of the things that really helped me was my knowledge of what *else* was going on.  I was looking at a 500,000 Smoky Mountains contract auction that was expiring that day.  I set my maximum price at $2200 and swore I wouldn't budge from that.  I had my automatic bid set up, ready to enter the auction when it got serious, but about an hour prior to expiration, the price approached $2,000.  I knew this auction was going to go much higher than $2,200.

But I also knew there was another auction for 501K at the same resort with about 4-5 days left and no bids, and a reasonable Buy It Now price.  I also knew I wasn't the only genius on eBay and that others knew what I knew.  So, I bought the 501K contract at the Buy It Now price for just under $2,000 including closing and transfer fees.

The auction I was prepared to bid on went an hour later for $4,800, and when the other geniuses looked at my contract, I'd already bought it.


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## Beefnot (Oct 21, 2011)

I have remained disciplined thus far, but I wonder if I will discipline myself out of owning. I somewhat arbitrarily set a target 5-yr avg target max MF of $4.65 per 1k points, all in including purchase price and closing costs, taking a short term approach to owning, and giving me more theoretically better options for disposing of my time share should i decide it is not working for me and my family's travel needs.  So i multiplied $4.65 times the annual points, then subtracted the MF from that number.  I then multiplied the difference by 5 years and that gives me the max i will spend up front on purchase price plus closing costs.  

I have bid on National Harbor, Canterbury, and Grand Desert.  Each time the final bid price was just beyond my target.  Now I am wondering if I should raise my target slightly higher or alternatively amortize acquisition costs over 10 years instead of 5.  Oh well, no rush nonetheless.


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## ronparise (Oct 21, 2011)

Beefnot said:


> I have remained disciplined thus far, but I wonder if I will discipline myself out of owning. I somewhat arbitrarily set a target 5-yr avg target max MF of $4.65 per 1k points, all in including purchase price and closing costs, taking a short term approach to owning, and giving me more theoretically better options for disposing of my time share should i decide it is not working for me and my family's travel needs.  So i multiplied $4.65 times the annual points, then subtracted the MF from that number.  I then multiplied the difference by 5 years and that gives me the max i will spend up front on purchase price plus closing costs.
> 
> I have bid on National Harbor, Canterbury, and Grand Desert.  Each time the final bid price was just beyond my target.  Now I am wondering if I should raise my target slightly higher or alternatively amortize acquisition costs over 10 years instead of 5.  Oh well, no rush nonetheless.



I completely agree with your approach. I too want to know my annual cost (mf plus amortized purchase costs) but I think in terms of 10 years not 5. And if Im buying for my personal use all I care about is an annual cost that's less than a comparable vacation rental

When I buy a week to rent, my concern is a little different I want my rental to be double mf and my purchase price to be no more than double mf ...In other words I want to pay for my investment in 2 years and then rent it for twice mf

The best deals come with current years mf paid and with a week to rent right now


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## Lacardsfan (Oct 24, 2011)

I am so confused by all the math in this thread? 

When I made up my mind to buy these were the first things I looked for. Did I have the wrong priority list?

Closing Costs (Wanted free or close to)
EOY or every year (And were the points going to be available in 2012)
Were the MFs paid for
ARP (location)
Then what the MFs would be. 

I guess I look at the now rather than the later. Maybe that is wrong of me. 

Got 250k points for 450 bucks out the door though, didnt think that was too bad.


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## ronparise (Oct 24, 2011)

Lacardsfan said:


> I am so confused by all the math in this thread?
> 
> When I made up my mind to buy these were the first things I looked for. Did I have the wrong priority list?
> 
> ...



Generally. Im more concerned with the "later", Purchase costs are a one time thing...maintenance fees are forever....However my next purchases will be at one specific resort for the ARP....I wont be too concerned about either now or later as long as I can be the winning bider


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## JimMIA (Oct 24, 2011)

ronparise said:


> Generally. Im more concerned with the "later", Purchase costs are a one time thing...maintenance fees are forever....


Yeah, I agree with Ron.  Unless you have some very specific objective like ARP at a particular resort, I'd look first for not only MF's, but the likelihood that MF's will remain relatively stable.  

Many new resorts have low MFs while they're in active sales.  But once the resort is "sold out" the MF's magically rise.


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## Beefnot (Oct 25, 2011)

Lacardsfan said:


> I am so confused by all the math in this thread?
> 
> When I made up my mind to buy these were the first things I looked for. Did I have the wrong priority list?
> 
> ...



Just a matter of how much you are willing to pay for those priorities.  As long as you are psychological comfortable with your acquisition costs, then you can operate with very little or very crude math. Me, I am much more calculating, even with the somewhat emotional lifestyle "investment" that timeshares are.


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## Lacardsfan (Oct 26, 2011)

Beefnot said:


> Just a matter of how much you are willing to pay for those priorities.  As long as you are psychological comfortable with your acquisition costs, then you can operate with very little or very crude math. Me, I am much more calculating, even with the somewhat emotional lifestyle "investment" that timeshares are.



Even after reading everything on TUG before buying it looks like I didnt do a very good job then. 

Here is what I bought:

Dolphin cove: 140k points  MF-817
Branson MO (Falls): 49k points   MF-276
Ocean Walk FL - 49k points   MF - 288

Total points 238   Total MF - 1381

Price per 1k - 5.8

From what I am reading 4.5 to 5.5 is average. Looks like I bought above the high end...ugh... 

Over the course of 10 years will you see all locations level out? Or are some just always higher than others?


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## kaio (Oct 26, 2011)

Lacardsfan said:


> Over the course of 10 years will you see all locations level out?



:rofl: lol.  The answer to the quoted question in my opinion based on my understanding is 'Not a chance'.

5.8 isn't too bad.  I've seen Ownerhsips in the double digit ratio... Yes; 3.x or 4.x is ideal, and 5.x is normal, but I also see alot of 6-7 ratios, and few outlining way above or slightly below... I think the highest Ratio i've seen was like $12 per k points.  Can't remember the home resort though.


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## ronparise (Oct 26, 2011)

Two ways to look at this...

First of all if you were to have bought  at under $5/100 points chances are it would have cost you more for the purchase

Second $5.8 is actually not too bad...

You can of course do what I am doing and buy more to bring your average cost down...My first contract was at $5.9, my second and third less;  so that my average is at $5.5....By careful vacation planning I keep my cost per night at under $100...Im happy with that


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## Lacardsfan (Oct 26, 2011)

Well I feel better about my purchase now guys, thanks....

Now to just get it transferred so I can book my week in Flagstaff.


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## rrlongwell (Oct 26, 2011)

Lacardsfan said:


> Well I feel better about my purchase now guys, thanks....
> 
> Now to just get it transferred so I can book my week in Flagstaff.



OK, I will be the odd ball out.  I think the 5.8 is pretty good compared with what is currently going on in the market.  I am in on average at slightly less, but a large portion of the inventory was bought a long time ago.


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## scootr5 (Oct 26, 2011)

Not necessarily on ebay, but I've picked up 232000 in the last 3 months at an average of 4.09/K - split between Smoky Mountains and Grand Desert.


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