# One reason II doesn't work for us



## timeos2 (Jul 8, 2007)

As I read all the various threads on exchanging and AC's I suddenly realized one reason why II isn't a good fit for us. One of the major reasons we bought into timeshare was the shear size as well as quality of the units. Every timeshare we own (except one where local ordinances didn't allow it) are at least two bedroom or more and have fully equipped kitchens. Even the lockouts, if the unit has them, are a third not a second bedroom and also feature some kitchen facilities.  When we trade we are very disappointed if the unit we have to take is a 1 bedroom or, worse yet, a lockoff often with a small or no kitchen.  It doesn't fit the model of travel we were buying into when we purchased. 

For whatever reason II seems to have a ton of quality units (although very often not as nice as RCI's Gold Crown units) but they are tiny. Studios, one bedrooms of less than average size (such as most of the DVC resorts) and lockoffs - worse yet often at off season times - are most of what II seems to offer. It is rare to see a full two bedroom or larger and almost unheard of to see it in a prime time with II.  While we have taken the 1 bedroom - but never the studio - just to get someplace or the dates we wanted it is a let down both from what we gave up to get the trade and from our expectations of what a timeshare unit is.  A one bedroom is little more than an Embassy Suites unit with maybe some extra square footage if you're lucky. In fact thanks to the better availability and added features like the free breakfasts and daily maid service we find that we can get a true suite hotel much easier and as cheaply as a timeshare if all that is offered is a one bedroom or suite sized unit. A true timeshare as we define it is a luxurious, spacious, two or three bedroom with a full kitchen and the feeling this is your home. Those seem to be plentiful in RCI and SFX while a rarity in the II system.  Too many people taking what would be an outstanding 2 or 3 bedroom unit and splitting it up into tiny slivers of space for trade just aren't the experience we expect. And it leads to the irritating habit that II has of trying to force you into smaller units and different ressorts than what you really want.  

While that may get the exchange depositor two weeks of small units for their one deposit / fee it stains the experience for us so much that II was crossed off our list of exchange companies we paid to use. We haven't missed them and have found that SFX and RCI Points are much more able to deliver the "full sized" timeshare units we want when we travel.


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## Liz Wolf-Spada (Jul 8, 2007)

I thought II was the one that was so set on "like for like", you could go down in size, as you have, but should be able to trade like for like. That is disappointing. We just joined II as I am only using SFX and DAE right now and thought I'd try them. Was going to give them our two bedroom Welk, so we could get a two bedroom so we could invite friends. Maybe we'll just rent it out to cover our costs. Speaking of renting out, I would agree with those who say we should raise last minute rentals to $1,000. My mfees for Welk are over $800 or were last year, so I doubt they'll go down.
Liz


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## JudyS (Jul 8, 2007)

Interesting observation, John.  Do you usually travel with many family members -- is that why number of bedrooms matters to you? 

I generally just have DH with me (we have no kids, unfortunately) and I sometimes travel alone. So, I am perfectly happy with a one-bedroom.  In fact, I prefer them to two bedrooms since I feel bad if I "waste" space that someone else might have needed. Once in a while, I will take a studio, but only if I really like the resort or if it's last minute and nothing else is available.  I really, really want a full kitchen, though, so I usually won't settle for a studio.

So, my willingness to take small units may be why I'm so happy with II.  Still, I see quite a few two bedrooms in II.  Now, I'm not sure what you consider "off-season," John, and I'm usually not looking for holiday weeks (too crowded), but I see two-bedrooms even then.  In fact, I just asked II to show me "sleeps 8" units for my strongest trader for weeks 51 & 52 for 2007.  (Christmas is Week 51 this year.)  II showed me some nice stuff, including two-bedroom Marriotts in Palm Springs & Orlando.  The week I'm using isn't part of any big company, it cost me about $1500 to buy (for an EOY unit), MFs are under $600 for each week of usage, and it gets an AC.  What's not to like? 

I've said it before, and I'll say it again -- I think your II problem was trade power, John.  II tends to reduce unit size offered to compensate for low trading power.  I can see this with the resort I just used to trade.  I was using a peak season to search, but I also own an off-season unit at the same resort.  My red week sees two-bedrooms, but my off-season week is often offered only one-bedrooms or studios for the same dates.   As I recall, John, your II trader was an Orlando Westgate.  That just doesn't have a lot of trade power with II.  Rather than offering your nothing (as RCI probably would have done), II's response to low trade power is to offer studios.


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## sandcastles (Jul 8, 2007)

It surprises me to hear you say your trades have been mostly small units.  We have been II members for about 8 years (RCI for 25 years) and I have been very critical of them.  Mostly because of mistakes that have been made on my exchanges.

It's usually just my husband and me but we stay in only 2 BR.  The only lockout I would consider is DVC, simply because so many of theirs are.  I have found lockouts to be much noisier than a dedicated unit.

I have never had trouble getting a 2 BR with II.  We've got Marriotts Manor Colony in Williamsburg over spring break in a 2 BR for 2008.  We have stayed in 2 and 3 BR Marriotts in Orlando.  Stayed twice in a 2BR on Siesta Key and Longboat Key.


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## joycapecod (Jul 8, 2007)

Liz Wolf-Spada said:


> I thought II was the one that was so set on "like for like", you could go down in size, as you have, but should be able to trade like for like. That is disappointing. We just joined II as I am only using SFX and DAE right now and thought I'd try them. Was going to give them our two bedroom Welk, so we could get a two bedroom so we could invite friends. Maybe we'll just rent it out to cover our costs. Speaking of renting out, I would agree with those who say we should raise last minute rentals to $1,000. My mfees for Welk are over $800 or were last year, so I doubt they'll go down.
> Liz



Liz,
I agree that with the rise in m/f the rental limit needs to be addressed. If you own a week in the UK or Europe the exchange rate is terrible and even a 1 bedroom unit in a not as desired area have fees around $700. I just recently read that Allen Hosue is in the $800 range. My Whitbarrow Village unit is now over $600 for a 1 bedroom. All of the Orlando area resorts are in the $700 and above for a 2 bedroom unit, with some being much more than that!

The $100 a night might have been excellent an a good benchmark 5 years ago, but, boy have things changed!

Joy


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## Polly Metallic (Jul 8, 2007)

I have gotten my share of two bedroom trades, too, from II, and we own all one bedroom units. We own a one bedroom at Westgate Villas, and that is our smallest unit, but it has a full kitchen and two baths. Our other one bedrooms are 950 - 1300 SF +/- and have full kitchens, so I consider those pretty big units. I don't mind trading to a one bedroom as that's all we typically need. The only "small" one bedrooms I've encountered in my research of possible trades seem to be the smaller portion of a lock-off unit. Those are barely bigger than a studio, so I know what you mean about that, but you can check the square footage with II and decide whether the unit is acceptable.


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## Judy (Jul 9, 2007)

John,  I see that you own in Orlando and Williamsburg.  If those are the units you've been exchanging through II, I might have an explanation. (I don't know anything about your other units).
Orlando and Williamsburg don't have the highest trading power, as you probably know.  But since II gives extra credit in it's trading power formula for larger units, your two-bedroom might be boosting your trading power enough to get you into weeks/places that a smaller unit in your resort couldn't have pulled.  But your trading power might not be good enough to get you a two-bedroom in these high-demand areas/weeks.
For example: When I search online with my Celebrity Orlando 2-bedroom, I sometimes see a one-bedroom or a studio in a high demand area at a high-demand time, but no two-bedrooms.  When I run another search with one of my better traders, I might see larger units at the same resort.


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## timeos2 (Jul 9, 2007)

*Trade power is an unknown so you can't depend on it*



Judy said:


> John,  I see that you own in Orlando and Williamsburg.  If those are the units you've been exchanging through II, I might have an explanation. (I don't know anything about your other units).
> Orlando and Williamsburg don't have the highest trading power, as you probably know.  But since II gives extra credit in it's trading power formula for larger units, your two-bedroom might be boosting your trading power enough to get you into weeks/places that a smaller unit in your resort couldn't have pulled.  But your trading power might not be good enough to get you a two-bedroom in these high-demand areas/weeks.
> For example: When I search online with my Celebrity Orlando 2-bedroom, I sometimes see a one-bedroom or a studio in a high demand area at a high-demand time, but no two-bedrooms.  When I run another search with one of my better traders, I might see larger units at the same resort.



Judy - I'm fairly sure trading power comes into it but what is it? As you know "trading power" is not a value available to the owner.  So in the dark all we can go by is what a unit does with exchange A, B or C.  

Yes I do own Orlando - two different resorts. One, Wastegate 2 bedroom, is in perpetual oversupply in II and understandably has so-so value there. I've only placed that week with II once with the predictable poor results. But with RCI it does very well. First as a weeks trade now as PFD value.  

The second is my Cypress Pointe 3 bedroom. Now this one II gets very few weeks from while RCI used to get the vast majority.  After years of successful trades with RCI  I tried it with II for two years. One a straight deposit (BIG mistake) the other a request first.  The plain old deposit got us the usual barrage of calls to take small units in season or larger units off seasons in the general areas we requested but not the resorts we requested.  We finally selected one so we wouldn't lose the deposit but it was not in anyway an equal trade. The second time I was smarter and requested only what we would accept and did request first. We still got bombarded with offers that missed the mark by a mile. Finally we pulled the week, took it to SFX and got our request within 6 weeks.  So II whiffed on both attempts with Orlando weeks. So you say Orlando has an issue with II. OK, lets move on.  

I wouldn't (couldn't) use my Williamsburg in II as it's Wyndham (FF at the time) and they don't do II. Besides between the internal Wyndham use and RCI I get everything I want from those 2 weeks/points.  

Heading up the coast lets look at a fixed week 30 from Cape Cod.  An area that has the trade power to pull virtually anything anywhere in my experience. Using RCI (twice - we don't give it up very often) we had a Hawaii and a San Francisco trade. Both tough and it pulled them easily. So we request first with II (not making the mistake of actually giving up my week again to the black hole of deposit and hope) and we give them 5 areas, 15 resorts and a two month window - all summer time as was the deposit. After no less than 20 calls they weren't even in the right months forget the resorts or areas!  It was pathetic.  So back to RCI with that week and we had an acceptable trade into one of the resorts we picked in II in less than a month. 

Finally I gave up on being an II member but did decide to use the exact same deposit (the 3 bedroom Cypress Pointe) but through the Sunterra Corporate II account rather than as an individual week from a member (me).  Wow. What a difference. Out of the gate we get  Marriott Custom House - 1 bedroom - but it only cost us 2/3 of our week in the points value. We still had enough points left over that combined with $60 of rental points we got a second week in Branson as well.  

So after a 10 year+ experiment I can safely say that in my real world experience II doesn't do the job for the individual paying owner no matter what you give them. The possible exceptions, which you will pay way too much for, are Marriott and DVC. Of course unless you trade back into those brands you are probably taking a lesser exchange which fits the mold of the II system.  

RCI has far more choices while SFX offers a more constant quality and II, as an individual with something other than Marriott/DVC, is likely to disappoint.   As a corporate (read preferred) exchange II can in fact come through with a reasonable selection and, because the trades are effectively points based, equal value.  

Of course what and where you own could make a difference but that was my history with II.  I won't be giving them any more chances as an individual member..


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## JudyS (Jul 9, 2007)

John, I know you were responding to the other Judy on this thread, but I had made similar points, so let me jump in here.

Thanks for the detailed account of your experiences with II.  You've mentioned parts of this before, but this is the first full account I've heard.

I definitely agree that II's non-stop phone calls for ongoing searches are a pain. Craig Urban said in the past that II had the policy to stop phoning if you request that they not call, but I've had to make the request several times before they stopped.  Next time, if I get calls after I've asked them to stop, I'll ask for a supervisor.  (Or maybe I should just change my phone number in their records to a non-working number, then change it back after I get my exchange, hmmmm...)  At any rate, I usually grab most of my trades online during the early morning, and don't do too many ongoing searches, so this usually hasn't been a problem for me.

I think both Cypress Pointe and Westgate Orlando would have low trade power in II.  II just has too many Orlando resorts, and many of them are Marriotts or Sheratons.  I know that Cypress Pointe is a very nice resort (I've stayed there), but why should someone take a resort they have never heard of (most non-TUGGERS have probably never heard of Cypress Pointe) when they could get a Sheraton or Marriott instead? 

As for the better trade power that you got by depositing Cypress Pointe as Sunterra points rather than as a deeded week, I'm wondering what Sunterra actually gave II.  Did Sunterra give II your actual Cypress Pointe week, and that's what your trade power was based on?  Or, does Sunterra give II a "basket" of various Sunterra weeks, and the trade power for each depositor is based on the _average value of the whole basket_?  There are some Sunterra resorts that I would expect to have very high trade power in II, so if your trade power was based on the Sunterra _average_, rather than on Cypress Pointe in particular, I'd expect that to be the reason that your trade power improved.  If I'm right, a Sunterra owner who converted a deeded strong Sunterra trader to Sunterra points might even find that their trade power _declined_, on the other hand. 

As for Cape Cod summer, I agree that this should be a very, very strong trader.  The problem is, II is also very sensitive to quality and almost everything on Cape Cod is low quality.  If you mostly wanted high-end resorts such as Marriott, you would likely be locked out because of quality issues.  Strong traders with lower quality do much better in RCI than in II. 

I agree that it sounds like II really didn't come through for you, but I don't think that's typical of II overall.  I think you just were unlucky and your resorts were ones that happened to trade poorly in II.  I own a resort that cost me about $1500, has annual fees of around $300, and is a strong II trader, and it's not part of any major group.  So, I'm happy with II.  Even for people whose resorts are undervalued with II, at least II lets you do a search first or request first before giving up your week, so you'll _know_ they don't have anything you want.  That's way more than I can say for RCI Weeks -- RCI Weeks disappoints a _lot_ of people, and won't let them know in advance what they'll be offered.


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## Bill4728 (Jul 9, 2007)

II has been great for us and we have never been offered a studio.  we feel we have made some great trade-ups many recently.

a 1 bd sept at whistler for a 2 bd marriott in newport coast (ncv)
a 1 bd oct whistler for boston marriott custom house
a 1 bd sept socal for the  2 bd ncv 

all within the past year and a half.


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## timeos2 (Jul 9, 2007)

*You could have rented those cheaper than a trade*



Bill4728 said:


> II has been great for us and we have never been offered a studio.  we feel we have made some great trade-ups many recently.
> 
> a 1 bd sept at whistler for a 2 bd marriott in newport coast (ncv)
> a 1 bd oct whistler for boston marriott custom house
> ...



All three off season - great if you can use that time,  and don't mind giving up your trade for it. We saw plenty in Sept-Nov and Jan-March in non-warm, non-ski areas or beach front (yeah, there's where we want to be in January!) including 1 and 2 bedrooms. But that isn't what we can use nor what we ask for in trade.  We, like 70% of the country, have to work around school schedules and usually like to travel in the summer weather OR to warm weather areas while it's cold at home. RCI & SFX has come through with those trades while II, as shown by your list, tends to only have those when its an off season period. A few more years and we'll be able to use those. But I wouldn't trade into them anyway as they are readily available to rent for far less than the annual fee plus exchange and membership fees.  Off season isn't  hard to get.  

Some of the value of any trade is strictly perception. If you are happy with a nice resort, two bedroom but in a non-prime season then you "got a great trade". But if you only want 2 bedroom, prime seasons and even down to specific resorts (OK, we're picky as heck - we know it!) then anything less, smaller units, different times are going to be "bad".  We buy only top resorts and the highest demand times so we expect the same when we trade. If an exchange can't deliver that most of the time then it isn't "good".  II was not "good" for us.  YMMV.


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## happymum (Jul 10, 2007)

We have also decided not to accept any more studio/lockoff units on exchange. I understand that from an owner perspective its great to be able to split your lock-off in to two deposits, but as an exchanger I have been uniformly disappointed. As another poster mentioned there is a noise issue and even at the nicest resorts the studio is little better than a hotel room. I hope that the trend will move away from building lock-offs, but I think that the concept is a great sales tool, so will probably remain.


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## Mel (Jul 10, 2007)

Two things that on the surface make II sound more appealing, actually drag down the system, making it harder to get the trades you want:

1 - Lock-off units.  It's great for the person depositing, since you get two exchanges for 1 timeshare.  Of course, I'm sure II and the developer gloss over the fact that at least in theory you can get that much more for a single deposit of the whole unit.  Then again, if everybody else is depositing split units, there may not be anything better for II to give you for that full unit.

2 - Request first.  Sounds great on the surface, but the reality seems very different.  With deposit first, the exchange company has the units in inventory and can fulfil people's exchanges, while they wait for the unit to fill your request to be deposited.  With Request first, you won't deposit until they have something you want - and the person that has what you want won't deposit until II has something _they_ want... and so on.  

This is great, I suppose, if what you want is before your use week.  If they never come up with it, you use your week or do something else with it.  But what if they don't come up with it, or you want something farther into the future.  You still end up depositing your week first - maybe only 1 month before your use date.  There were people looking for that exchange 2 months ago, but they've already make plans by now, so your unit will sit empty - hence II having their flexchange rules to force late depositors to use other late deposits.

I do wonder about the statistics that are released by the exchange companies each year.  They list the percentage of successful exchanges - I assume this means the number of exchanges vs. the number of deposits.  But if the week is never deposited because they didn't satisfy your request first exchange, does it still count?  If the week wasn't deposited, where does it fit in the statistics?  If II went to complete request first, wouldn't that give them 100% success?  

Like so many other things people have tried to sell to me, I've been through a sales presentation at an II-affiliated resort.  They made a very big deal about request first, and emphasized that you don't have to deposit until II comes up with a satisfactory exchange.  But they gloss over the corrolary - the same policy works against you too, on the other end.  

But


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## jjking42 (Jul 10, 2007)

*I agree with john*

i have dropped II completely. I have top quality hgvc Marco island units and get bonus weeks but cant never find a prime 2 bedroom.

We need Beach weeks between 6/15 and 8/01
and beach and Ski week during spring break

with 3 kids in school we can only travel during those times
we always deposit two bedroom units and with 5 people have to get two bedroom units.

we actually took a 1 bedroom  exchange for westin harborside at Atlantis and let it sit empty because we could not decide who to leave behind.  We are not allowed to put 5 in most one bedroom units.

I have been able to get 2 bedroom units with sfx and rci without problem if I plan 12-18 months in advance.

II works great if you 
1. own a marriott
2 can use a 1 bedroom
3 like high quality resorts in shoulder or off season.

I actually recommended II to my friend. They only have two kids so II will work for them.

I also hate lockoffs not something I ever want to stay in unless I have both sides.

For prime two bedroom units you are actually better off using the mini systems
All three of these keep the two bedroom prime summer units for owners and the exchange companies dont get them.
fairfield points
hgvc points
starwood points


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## LGinPA (Jul 12, 2007)

timeos2 said:


> .......  When we trade we are very disappointed if the unit we have to take is a 1 bedroom or, worse yet, a lockoff often with a small or no kitchen.  It doesn't fit the model of travel we were buying into when we purchased.  ......
> 
> ......   It is rare to see a full two bedroom or larger and almost unheard of to see it in a prime time with II.  ...... .



*John,*

I must be one of the rare happy II exchangers here.  Here's my take on John's situation....

I have selected 2 statements from your original post to quote, that causes me to ask you these questions:

Exactly how do you trade with II?  Do you place a request against your 2 Br/2ba unit that's already deposited?  While doing so, do you place a check in the boxes that indicate you require a full kitchen and the same size unit you've deposited?  Do you place a request for desired resorts that have 2 br/2ba units?
When you say "it is rare to see a full two bedroom.." that tells me you may be searching against your deposited unit on-line to see what's available at that second in time looking for something you'd like to take.  Keep in mind that if you are not placing a request, you will see very few 2 br/2ba units by searching (especially in popular areas) since they all get snatched up by people like me who got them by depositing early and requesting.  What you see on-line is left over after 'behind the scenes' matches and exchanges took place. 

What I descibed above in #1 is what we've done for years and have received great exchanges.

 I 'technically' own a 4br/4ba lock-off in Williamsburg Plantation that gets split into two - 2 br/2 ba weeks each year. We have owned there since 1999 and have had very successfully II trades, all into great 2 br/2 ba units with full kitchens of at least the same standard as we own.  We've even received Marriott exchanges into Orlando (which I'll admit, isn't that hard to get since there's a gazillion ts's in Orlando).  

Our latest exchange was a request to the Caribbean for a 1 specific week  period, (we just returned, 6/30 - 7/7).  And the request we made was for 8 possible resorts in different islands all of which had 2br/2ba units.  We actually received a call from II  when the exchange came through last January (which is rare) ....because..... catch this.... the kitchen in Jolly Beach Vacation in Antigua (JBV) was not considered a FULL kitchen because it doesn't have an oven!!!    So they gave us 24 hours to decide to keep it or drop it.  Well, I figured I wasn't going to be baking anything in Antigua, so of course we took it! It was a fabulous exchange! 

All of our other 10 or so exchanges were matched 'behind the scenes' to exactly what we requested, and we are informed of the match by email with an attached confirmation document.  They have all been 2br/2ba full kitchen exchanges.   

I hope this makes sense and helps shed light on your issue.


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## JudyS (Jul 13, 2007)

jjking42 said:


> i have dropped II completely. I have top quality hgvc Marco island units and get bonus weeks but cant never find a prime 2 bedroom....


Well, just about any trade for a week like that would be a trade down. I'd rent my week out if I owned there and didn't want to use it myself. (This is what I do with my DVC.)  Also, were you trading with a one-bedroom unit or a two-bedroom unit?  II's policy of not allowing members to do an ongoing request for a larger unit than their deposit isn't going to work well for anyone who deposits a very valuable, but small, unit.



Mel said:


> Two things that on the surface make II sound more appealing, actually drag down the system, making it harder to get the trades you want:
> 
> 1 - Lock-off units.....
> 
> ...


Mel, have you tried II and been disappointed at availability, or are you theorizing about the effect of II's policies?  I agree with you that lock-offs can be a problem, but just about all trading companies have lock-offs, not just II.  As for Request First leading to a "chicken and egg"" problem of no one depositing because they are waiting for everyone else, there are several factors that help avoid this.  One is that II seems to get a fair amount of developer inventory; another factor is that II encourages deposit first of desirable units by offering ACs; and the third is that depositing first is rewarded by locking-in trading power. 

As for the percentage of successful exchanges, I haven't seen figures for II, just RCI.  RCI reports just the percentage of _ongoing requests_ that are eventually filled with something.  I don't consider this number very meaningful, because probably many owners never bother with ongoing requests, and many of the ones that do no doubt settle for something way below their hopes just to avoid having their week expire. 




LGinPA said:


> I must be one of the rare happy II exchangers here.


I love II.  And I don't think I'm the only one.


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## DebBrown (Jul 13, 2007)

This is a strange yet interesting thread!

We have been with II for years.  We only own 2br units and always trade for 2br units.  I always place ongoing requests as far in advance as possible and usually get what I want.

I do search online with my ACs and can concur that you rarely see the good stuff just sitting out there.

Deb


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## jerseygirl (Jul 13, 2007)

*20 Reasons II Works For Us*

2007:
Quarter House Week 18 (Jazz Fest)
Marriott’s Aruba Ocean Club Week 31
Disney’s Beach Club Villas Week 32
Disney’s Boardwalk Villas Week 33
Harborside Week 37 (Hurricane season, but I don’t mind living dangerously)
Westin St John Week 38 (ditto)
Disney’s Beach Club Villas Week 47
Quarter House Week 52 (Sugar Bowl)

2006:
Disney’s Old Key West Week 29 (3 units – High School Graduation Trip)
Westin Ka’anapali Week 35 (cancelled, unfortunately)
Westin Ka’anapali Week 48 (Wedding Gift)

2005:
Quarter House Week 3 (MLK weekend)
Sunterra’s Carlton Court London Week 26
Marriott’s Beach Place Tower Week 27 
Clarion Beach Club Week 28
Disney’s Old Key West Week 35 (last week of summer break -- 2 units)
Disney’s Beach Club Villas Week 50
Hyatt Coconut Plantation Week 51

2004:
Harborside Week 4
Marriott Aruba Surf Club Week 34 (2 units)

Yes, we occasionally take a smaller unit (~25% of the time), but we never mind ... especially if we trade an ebay bargain for a great resort.


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## JudyS (Jul 13, 2007)

Whoa, Jerseygirl, those are some trades!!!  :whoopie: 

Do you mind if I ask you what you used to trade with?  Feel free to PM me if you'd rather not answer "in public."


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## jerseygirl (Jul 13, 2007)

Most of the Starwood units were obtained with resale "voluntary" Starwood resorts -- I own a couple of Broadway Plantation units and a PGA week and I'm very pleased with the trading power (and low maintenance fees!).  I also own a couple of nice, clean, non-brandname holiday weeks and find they do very well in II.  Nothing spectacular (that I trade  ), which is why I'm always so puzzled when John complains about his trading experiences with II.  It's not that I doubt his experience, it's just that mine has been so different.


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## JudyS (Jul 14, 2007)

jerseygirl said:


> Most of the Starwood units were obtained with resale "voluntary" Starwood resorts -- I own a couple of Broadway Plantation units and a PGA week and I'm very pleased with the trading power (and low maintenance fees!).  I also own a couple of nice, clean, non-brandname holiday weeks and find they do very well in II.....


Thanks very much for the info, Jerseygirl!




jerseygirl said:


> ... Nothing spectacular (that I trade  ), which is why I'm always so puzzled when John complains about his trading experiences with II.  It's not that I doubt his experience, it's just that mine has been so different.


Me, too.  My II traders cost $1500 or less (much less, in some cases), and I see nice stuff with them.   I haven't gotten all the spectacular trades that you have, but in the 2 years I've been with II, I've gotten a bunch of DVC units & also Marriott Newport Coast Villas for Memorial Day. I see other nice stuff but haven't booked it because I can't vacation too many times a year.  So, I'm speculating that II must undervalue certain weeks, unfortunately including all 3 weeks that John owned.


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## anne1125 (Jul 14, 2007)

I also have stopped using II.  My large 2 bedroom oceanfront resort (week 3 Florida) is no longer 5 star.  

When the rating dropped so did the exchange possibilities.

I won't be renewing with II and really hope that this resort switches to RCI after their II only agreement is up in 2011.

Anne


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## Dani (Jul 15, 2007)

This thread is interesting to me as I have noticed a marked decline in available weeks at II...at least weeks that I am interested in and used to see fairly often.  I used to be very, very happy with II and now, I just do not see as much these days.  In fairness to II, you can almost always do better with an on-going search as they just do not have that many great weeks just sitting on-line.  Also, whenever somone speaks about an exchange company not having as much or the same inventory, you must consider that the exchange power for their week/weeks might have changed.  This might be the case with me I suppose.  

Still, a year or so ago, I would have ranked RCI and II neck and neck, but for the past  6 months or so, II is running a distant second for me.   There are still weeks that I desire that I can only get through II, so I will not likely leave II anytime soon, it's just that something seems to have changed.


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## JudyS (Jul 15, 2007)

Dani said:


> ..Still, a year or so ago, I would have ranked RCI and II neck and neck, but for the past  6 months or so, II is running a distant second for me.   There are still weeks that I desire that I can only get through II, so I will not likely leave II anytime soon, it's just that something seems to have changed.


Dani, are you using Foxrun in II, and Dik/SoCal/Points in RCI?


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## Dani (Jul 15, 2007)

JudyS said:


> Dani, are you using Foxrun in II, and Dik/SoCal/Points in RCI?



In II I use a Foxrun and I had a Sheraton week too. In RCI, my summer So. Cal has ALWAYS gotten the job done.  I also have Points and Dik in RCI.


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## Judy (Jul 15, 2007)

anne1125 said:


> I also have stopped using II.  My large 2 bedroom oceanfront resort (week 3 Florida) is no longer 5 star.
> 
> When the rating dropped so did the exchange possibilities.
> 
> Anne


My experience was just the opposite  When my Orlando week lost its five star rating (and I assume its Quality Rating dropped at about the same time), the exchange possibilities increased dramatically!  It doesn't pull the top-tier resorts as often as it used to, but it sees far more weeks in many more areas than it did when it had a quality rating.
I think that in II, the worst trading power goes to highly rated resorts in over-built areas.


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## jjking42 (Jul 16, 2007)

JudyS said:


> Well, just about any trade for a week like that would be a trade down. I'd rent my week out if I owned there and didn't want to use it myself. (This is what I do with my DVC.)  Also, were you trading with a one-bedroom unit or a two-bedroom unit?  II's policy of not allowing members to do an ongoing request for a larger unit than their deposit isn't going to work well for anyone who deposits a very valuable, but small, unit.




I always deposit two bedroom units with with II. I finally managed to book back in to Marco island with my last II deposit. Thank goodness the hgvc units in Marco are not lockoff. I got a two bedroom for the two bedroom I gave up. 

But if i wanted to book back into Marco it would have been easier to go with hgvc rather than II. 

I have tried ongoing requests with II that is how I got back in to Marco. But thier were 20 other resorts on that same request that never came up.

I really think all the lockoff are what ruin II for me. Most Marriott owners lockoff before they 
deposit.

I have started renting my marco island units becasue of the trade down problem with II. But I have been able to get hawaii with them using SFX and HGVC. So for me II makes no sense.

My in laws own Marriott ko olina lockoff and love it. 
they lock off thier unit and get three or four weeks for the one. They are retired and only need 1 bedroom or studio units. They stay exclusively in Marriott's . They can travel off or shoulder season . For them II is perfect.

If I only had two kids and owned a Marriott I would stay with II.


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## jjking42 (Jul 16, 2007)

jerseygirl said:


> 2007:
> Quarter House Week 18 (Jazz Fest)
> Marriott’s Aruba Ocean Club Week 31
> Disney’s Beach Club Villas Week 32
> ...



I can see that II works for you becasue you can travel in off sesson.
Our kids start school the first week of august.
From all your exchanges we could only use

Quarter House Week 52 (Sugar Bowl)
Disney’s Old Key West Week 29  
Sunterra’s Carlton Court London Week 26
Marriott’s Beach Place Tower Week 27 
Clarion Beach Club Week 28
Hyatt Coconut Plantation Week 51

where any of these two bedrooms ?


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## JudyS (Jul 16, 2007)

Dani said:


> In II I use a Foxrun and I had a Sheraton week too. In RCI, my summer So. Cal has ALWAYS gotten the job done.  I also have Points and Dik in RCI.


Thanks, Dani.  So, it sounds like you are seeing less II availability with Sheraton, too, not just Foxrun -- is that right?





Judy said:


> ....
> I think that in II, the worst trading power goes to highly rated resorts in over-built areas.


That may be; I'm not sure.  If anything, though, I think this problem is worse in RCI. 





jjking42 said:


> ...I really think all the lockoff are what ruin II for me. Most Marriott owners lockoff before they deposit.
> 
> I have started renting my marco island units becasue of the trade down problem with II. But I have been able to get hawaii with them using SFX and HGVC. So for me II makes no sense.....


Thanks for the information, JJKing.  So, it sounds like your II problem is the same as John's -- not enough larger units in prime areas in high-season.  I've been very happy with II, but it probably does work best for people who can take smaller units and/or travel off-season.


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## Dani (Jul 16, 2007)

JudyS said:


> Thanks, Dani.  So, it sounds like you are seeing less II availability with Sheraton, too, not just Foxrun -- is that right?



  I wouldn't say that I am seeing less with the Sheraton as I have not owned it long enough to make that assessment.  I just am not that impressed with the availabilty.


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## guy33 (Jul 16, 2007)

*Exchanging With II*

How early you deposit the week you are trading is very important.  Both II and RCI have a "trade secret" built-in excuse not to share true trade value rules, but I find that a few basic rules are not a secret at all.

1. Be realistic:  If you truly own at a first class resort you deserve no less in exchange.  (Hold your Developer Accountable if you constantly find that you are short changed by RCI or II)

2. Deposit Early:  If you deposit 18 months to two years in advance your chances of getting quality for qaulity is enormous.

3. Do your homework:  Read about resorts and look at the classified section of TUG and the sale and rental listings for different resorts.  Look at MF's and resale values in the TUG database.  Monitor how long it takes for it to sell.

4. Search Wisely:  Keep searching daily, weekly and/or use ongoing searches for what you need or want.  The early bird catches the worm.  I have been on the phone with a respresentative and had a week get away because he/she moved too slow to claim it for me.


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## tashamen (Jul 16, 2007)

guy33 said:


> How early you deposit the week you are trading is very important.  Both II and RCI have a "trade secret" built-in excuse not to share true trade value rules, but I find that a few basic rules are not a secret at all.
> 
> 2. Deposit Early:  If you deposit 18 months to two years in advance your chances of getting quality for qaulity is enormous.



I don't believe this is that important for II, as stated by Craig Urbine on the old TUG, and on my own experience.  I can't even deposit Club Intrawest into II until 11 months out - not that I usually deposit more than 8 months out or so.  I have never had a problem getting the quality resorts in II that I requested.  I place most requests 6 to 9 months out on average.


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## jerseygirl (Jul 16, 2007)

jjking42 said:


> I can see that II works for you becasue you can travel in off sesson.
> Our kids start school the first week of august.
> From all your exchanges we could only use
> 
> ...



The vast majority of them were two-bedrooms and our school system (in NJ) didn't start again until the week after Labor Day so we always LOVED taking the last two weeks of August off.  Great "final break" before the school year started again.

And, for the right exchange, we pulled our d out of school (and, no, I don't want to start that debate again ... she survived, got into lots of great colleges, is on the Dean's List ... and remembers the vacations much more than the science lessons she missed!).  

Even better, we don't have to worry about school calendars anymore (but I still get her Spring Break weeks to use ... she inherited her mom's love of travel!).


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## jjking42 (Jul 17, 2007)

jerseygirl said:


> The vast majority of them were two-bedrooms and our school system (in NJ) didn't start again until the week after Labor Day so we always LOVED taking the last two weeks of August off.  Great "final break" before the school year started again.
> 
> And, for the right exchange, we pulled our d out of school (and, no, I don't want to start that debate again ... she survived, got into lots of great colleges, is on the Dean's List ... and remembers the vacations much more than the science lessons she missed!).
> 
> Even better, we don't have to worry about school calendars anymore (but I still get her Spring Break weeks to use ... she inherited her mom's love of travel!).




thats a much better schedule than we have in texas . We used to start the first week of august, now the state passed a law that they cant start any earlier then the third week of august. I grew up in VA and we never started until labor day .

We have a miitant pricipal and part of the schools ratings come from attandance. I have known parents to get called in and chewed out for taking thier kids on vaction. I dont care but my wife is in the Pta and wont do it.


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## jerseygirl (Jul 17, 2007)

jjking42 said:


> thats a much better schedule than we have in texas . We used to start the first week of august, now the state passed a law that they cant start any earlier then the third week of august. I grew up in VA and we never started until labor day .



Yes, I remember that schedule.  My daughter was born in Texas and did her first few years of school there.  Believe me, by the end of June (my daughter didn't graduate from HS until 6/24ish), the kids are ready to revolt, so both schedules have their positives and negatives.  My favorite part of the NJ schedule was the President's Week plus a Spring Break .... gave us two weeks to look forward to during those long, cold winters.  

Re militant principals -- yes, my d's high school (public) was a lot more strict than her middle school (private).  We didn't push the limits nearly as much ... sometimes a great exchange is worth a 5-day trip (especially if the maintenance fee on your trader is reasonable).


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## 4nzic1 (Jul 22, 2007)

Hello,

What is the SFX exchange company that you speak of and do you know what the DAE exchange company that I also read about in another posting?  Currently, we are RCI and II members (also have ICE gallery lifetime membership through one of our other timeshares).  I've also heard about VCI but have not checked them out yet.  

Thanks in advance


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