# I Can't Believe I Bought Another Horn.



## AwayWeGo

Actually, I can believe it because it's right there on Old GlassFace -- the eBay item description showing in living technicolor what the instrument looks like (outstanding), who won the bidding for it (me), how much I have to pay (more than double what our most recent timeshare cost), & what the charge is for shippping & handling & insurance ($50). 

Not only that, I have eBay bids in on 2 others -- more than that, actually, but I've already been outbid in all the other horn auctions but 2. 

None of these recent horn bids have been snipes -- just bids sent in early with the idea in mind that I'd likely be outbid but if for some reason my bids stood up I'd willingly go ahead with the purchases.  That is to say, if a decent horn is going to sell cheap, it might as well go to me, & if it's going to sell closer to what it's actually worth then I can do without it. 

I'll tell you 1 thing:  This absolutely motivates me to start moving some of the surplus horns I have around here -- i.e., some that I bought with the idea of making a little something by reselling them on eBay after buying them low, having certain repairs done & custom features added economically, & putting them back on eBay with digital photos showing them off to optimum advantage.  What I need now is another 10-cent listing day. 

The Chief Of Staff is extremely forbearing about this, never complaining once, asking some semi-pointed questions perhaps, but not fussing or fretting. 

At least they're just (French) horns & not tubas, harps, or pipe organs. 
-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


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## T_R_Oglodyte

AwayWeGo said:
			
		

> What I need now is another 10-cent listing day.
> 
> The Chief Of Staff is extremely forbearing about this, never complaining once, asking some semi-pointed questions perhaps, but not fussing or fretting.
> 
> At least they're just (French) horns & not tubas, harps, or pipe organs.


Well, Alan, that excuse is gone:

June 8: 20-cent listing day.

I know, 20-cents instead of 10-cents, but it's just a measly dime.


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## dmharris

I'm thinking of getting into this e-bay craze and selling some stuff.  How often do these 10/20 cent listing days happen?

Thanks,


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## JLB

Don't forget to take it and play it, non-stop, on your timeshare vacations.


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## AwayWeGo

*Plenty More Horns Where That Came From.*




			
				JLB said:
			
		

> Don't forget to take it and play it, non-stop, on your timeshare vacations.


When we go to Florida -- Orlando, Lakeland, Mulberry, Tampa, Clearwater, Pinellas Park, Zephyrhills -- I usually have my road horn with me so if things work out right I can sit in with the Lakeland Concert Band. 

Over the years, I've been to band practice with them maybe 6 times & actually played in 1 of their concerts, held at the concert hall of The Lakeland Center. 

Last January when we were staying in Orlando in a wonderful condo at the Vacation Village At Parkway timeshare, I had my customized Yamaha YHR-668N with me, took it over to Lakeland on band night, got to the band hall right on time, & saw taped to the door a notice reminding everybody that band practice had been moved for that 1 rehearsal only over to some church in Lakeland. 

I don't know my Lakeland streets & neighborhoods well enough to know where  to find the church -- & by the time I found it I would have been way late -- so I gave up.  So it goes. 

I drove back to Orlando the long way -- returning as usual via I-4, but turning left on Rt. 27, then right onto Rt. 192, past the Orange Lake neighborhood, & eventually back to Arabian Nights Boulevard.  Spent the rest of the evening with The Chief Of Staff in our outstanding _Last Call_ resort condo. 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


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## JLB

I remember that, cuz we were there, too, although not looking for your church.  

We had Tuggers from Albuquerque visit last year and she has a road cello.  I believe it involves PVC pipe.


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## Diane

Hi Jim,

Yes, the travel cello is made mostly out of PVC pipe.  Only the strings and tail piece are genuine cello parts.  The rest all came from Lowe's Hardware.  Milt has also designed and built a travel bass.  I think I have attached a packed-up photo.  The assembled and ready-to-play photo was too large to attach.

Diane


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## AwayWeGo

*Shedding Extraneous Horns Via eBay*




			
				T_R_Oglodyte said:
			
		

> Well, Alan, that excuse is gone:
> 
> June 8: 20-cent listing day.
> 
> I know, 20-cents instead of 10-cents, but it's just a measly dime.


OK, thanks. 

Making practical use of that timely information, I sprang into action & put 2 of my surplus horns on eBay. 

Any TUG folks out there eaten up with curiosity about what they look like, etc., can contact me off the list to get the eBay item numbers. 

(No way I'm going to put the numbers here -- don't want to put _anything_ on the TUG-BBS that's advertising, _looks like_ advertising, could be _construed_ as advertising, or could be analyzed so as to reveal specific information from which anybody could deduce anything suggesting the potential idea of a _subliminal_ advertisement.  Do I play by the rules or what?) 
-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


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## dmharris

Hi Alan,

Thanks for the link to ebay, but the day is past.  How often does ebay offer this type of deal?  I'm just getting started looking at selling things on ebay.


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## AwayWeGo

*eBay Dime Day.*




			
				dmharris said:
			
		

> Hi Alan,
> 
> Thanks for the link to ebay, but the day is past.  How often does ebay offer this type of deal?  I'm just getting started looking at selling things on ebay.


Credit for the 20-cent listing link goes to T_R_Oglodyte, not me.  (Thanks, Troggy.) 

Dime & 20-cent listing days come along now & then -- sometimes for _Buy It Now_ only, sometimes for regular auctions too. 

I'd say those promotions come up at 6- or 7-week intervals -- although I have not been keeping track. 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


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## JLB

Hi Diane. The lake is beautiful.


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## jwq387

AwayWeGo said:
			
		

> Actually, I can believe it because it's right there on Old GlassFace -- the eBay item description showing in living technicolor what the instrument looks like (outstanding), who won the bidding for it (me), how much I have to pay (more than double what our most recent timeshare cost), & what the charge is for shippping & handling & insurance ($50).
> 
> Not only that, I have eBay bids in on 2 others -- more than that, actually, but I've already been outbid in all the other horn auctions but 2.
> 
> None of these recent horn bids have been snipes -- just bids sent in early with the idea in mind that I'd likely be outbid but if for some reason my bids stood up I'd willingly go ahead with the purchases.  That is to say, if a decent horn is going to sell cheap, it might as well go to me, & if it's going to sell closer to what it's actually worth then I can do without it.
> 
> I'll tell you 1 thing:  This absolutely motivates me to start moving some of the surplus horns I have around here -- i.e., some that I bought with the idea of making a little something by reselling them on eBay after buying them low, having certain repairs done & custom features added economically, & putting them back on eBay with digital photos showing them off to optimum advantage.  What I need now is another 10-cent listing day.
> 
> The Chief Of Staff is extremely forbearing about this, never complaining once, asking some semi-pointed questions perhaps, but not fussing or fretting.
> 
> At least they're just (French) horns & not tubas, harps, or pipe organs.
> -- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


My cousin just procured a production management position with King-Conn, the brass instrument manufacturer, in Eastlake, Ohio. They also own Bach. Maybe he can get you some of the "rejects" if your horn fetish kicks in again. I can't wait to take a tour of the plant, having played trumpet and baritone(not at the same time) in high school.


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## AwayWeGo

*Eastlake Conn Horns.*

The Eastlake Conn _Connstellation_ horns are said to be a major step up in quality from the Abilene TX _Connstellations_, but horn players familiar with the professional model 8D _Connstellations_ say the sound & response, etc., of the Eastlake 8Ds are not the same as the famous old Conn 8Ds from Elkhart, Indiana. 

How much of that is factual, & how much is nostalgia for the good old days, I'm not able to say. 

That's because I've never been a Conn _Connstellation_ horn player, more of an Alexander 103 & Lawson 804 & Yamaha YHR-666 horn player -- with a couple of Conn 6Ds mixed in just for variety. 
-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


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## jwq387

*Re: Eastlake Conn Horns.*



			
				AwayWeGo said:
			
		

> The Eastlake Conn _Connstellation_ horns are said to be a major step up in quality from the Abilene TX _Connstellations_, but horn players familiar with the professional model 8D _Connstellations_ say the sound & response, etc., of the Eastlake 8Ds are not the same as the famous old Conn 8Ds from Elkhart, Indiana.
> 
> How much of that is factual, & how much is nostalgia for the good old days, I'm not able to say.
> 
> That's because I've never been a Conn _Connstellation_ horn player, more of an Alexander 103 & Lawson 804 & Yamaha YHR-666 horn player -- with a couple of Conn 6Ds mixed in just for variety.
> -- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


I should have known. You 've been playing horn longer than I have been on this Earth. Thank you for the info. on Conn horns. Maybe I can talk to someone in my Cousin's company who might give me a history lesson on the Conn product in variuos plants across the US. Good Stuff.


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## AwayWeGo

*C.G. Conn History*




			
				jwq387 said:
			
		

> You 've been playing horn longer than I have been on this Earth.


Shucks, old as I am -- pushing 64 -- I've been playing horn longer than most TUG folks have been on the planet. 

There's some interesting historical information about C.G. Conn that was prepared by a Musical Instruments Curator at the National Music Museum in Vermillion, South Dakota. 

That's in addition to the official company-authorized history you can view on the Conn-Selmer web site. 

I don't know whether there any timeshares out there in the vicinity of Vermillion, South Dakota -- but I'd like to go out there some day while I'm still breathing air & tour the museum of musical instruments. 
-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


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## AwayWeGo

*Yep, I Really Did Buy Another Horn.*

OK, I followed through -- thanks to 20-cent listing day -- & actually sold off 2 of the extra horns around here, just in time & right before the latest eBay horn that I bought was delivered.  (And it's a nice 1 -- Yamaha YHR-666N -- happy to have it.) 

In fact, as it happens I had gone to FedEx to hand over 1 of my sold eBay horns for shipment to the winning bidder & when I got back the FedEx truck was in front of my house delivering the latest eBay horn that I bought.  

The eBay bids I had in on 2 other horns did not stand up, so the current score card on excess horns as of this afternoon is _Minus Two_ + _Plus One_.  (Or it will be, once the winning eBay bidder on the other horn I sold comes through with the money & I follow through by shipping that 1 out.) 

I still bid on lots of eBay horns -- but my minimal _don't-care-if-I-win_ bid amount is much lower as of now. 
-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


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## rudymcbill

Alan,
Congratulations on your latest auction finishes!   You certainly had a lot of interested parties.
Thanks for all your great advise on what to look for in a horn.
We're almost past the cash flow hump from our latest timeshare purchase, so now I can start seriously watching the horn auctions.  
Cindy McBill


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## AwayWeGo

*Added 1 Horn & Subtracted 2 Horns.*

OK, the winning eBay bidder on that other eBay horn I sold came through with payment in full, so Monday morning that horn also is out of here (via FedEx Ground). 

So even though I really did up & buy that outstanding eBay Yamaha YHR-666, the horn population score card around here now stands at Plus One & Minus Two. 

Not only that, the way the eBay purchase prices & sale prices worked out, in effect I traded away 2 horns I was ready to part with for 1 horn I'm happy to add to the collection. 

That ought to earn me a little credit with The Chief Of Staff, eh? 
-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


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## AwayWeGo

*Followed Through By Putting Another Horn On eBay Sunday Night.*

Just to show that I really am working on thinning down the excess horn inventory around here, I can state truthfully that I put another 1 on eBay Sunday night, with a reasonable opening bid amount (for a used professional-quality instrument), & no reserve. 

Actions speak louder than words, eh? 

Meanwhile, I plan on playing my latest eBay horn acquisition -- an outstanding eBay Yamaha YHR-666N -- in the 4th Of July Independence Day pre-fireworks concert Tuesday evening at Fairfax VA. 

I no longer play in the 4th Of July parades -- simply awarded myself Senior Citizen Status & opted out, even though the group no longer marches but nowadays rides the parade route aboard a humongous flatbed truck belting out patriotic march tunes all through town.  I'm sure it's loads of fun for the young & the middle-aged -- but not for old folks like me. 

I hope everybody has a fabulous 4th. 
-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


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## AwayWeGo

*Horn Update*

Well, numerous practice sessions, rehearsals, & performances on my newly acquired Yamaha YHR-666N make it abundantly clear that it was an outstanding eBay purchase -- a keeper, for sure. 

Meanwhile, although I got taken to the cleaners in selling off my customized Yamaha YHR-668N via eBay, at least I got most of my money back for it & it's out of here. 

Since then, I've taken another unloved horn to the brass technician for repairs & custom work, & picked up another that the technician recently completed working on for me.  I'll be putting those up on eBay in time for back to school shopping by the parents of the band kids. 
-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


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## AwayWeGo

*1st Paying Gig With "Accidental" eBay Horn.*

I played my eBay YHR-666N all summer with Fairfax Band & with my smaller (5-piece) brass group (horn, trombone, tuba, 2 trumpets) for the swearing-in ceremony of the newly elected mayor & city council & board of education of the City Of Fairfax.  (I live in the surrounding _county_ of Fairfax, but that's another story.) 

Anyway, the horn still plays great & I consider myself miles ahead with its acquisition, even though I got taken to the cleaners in selling off the customized YHR-668N that it replaced.  (So it goes.) 

Last night I played my 1st paying gig with the outstanding YHR-666N -- a private party out in Fairfax in celebration of the 50th wedding anniversary of the guests of honor.  I don't know if the event was a surprise party for the anniversary couple, but the live music element of the party was a surprise for sure.  The anniversary couple's daughter had heard us play a city hall lawn concert earlier this summer, & picked up her ears in particular at 1 tune on the program -- _Blues In The Night Train_, arranged for brass quintet by Paul Chauvin.  It opens with a couple of phrases from _Blues In The Night_ (you know, "My Mama Done Told Me, When I Was In Pigtails..."), then does a quick _segue_ into _Night Train_, the famous Buddy Morrow tune, which the anniversary couple consideres to be "their song."  So the daughter decided to see if we'd be available to perform for the Golden Anniversary party, we were, & we played _Blues In The Night Train_ last night.  A good time was had by all. 

Incidentally, if you click on that Buddy Morrow link, _Night Train_ is the tune playing when the WWW page opens up.  (Coincidence?  I don't think so.) 

BTW, when the gig came up, we had to scramble for a substitute lead trumpet player, because our regular lead trumpeter had to lay off playing for 2 weeks following oral surgery.  Our resourceful manager came up with a guy who formerly was lead trumpet with 1 of the U.S. armed services band's jazz combos.  All the tunes we played were familiar & the guy substituting on lead trumpet is a terrific sight-reader anyway, so even with a ringer on lead trumpet it was an outstanding performance if I do say so myself.  We just spent 20 minutes or so ahead of the opening downbeat to open up the book & talk over the tunes on the playlist, & play a few measures of some we thought might be tricky, & then we were good to go. 
-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County ), Virginia, USA.​


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## CSB

I might be imagining things but when I heard the Night Train song on the Buddy Morrow link, I started to think of Jerry Lewis. Can anyone remember if this song was in one of his movies? Maybe The Nutty Professor? His alter ego in that movie was, interestingly enough, Buddy.


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## ocowner

*Trombones???*

Let me change the instrument topic to trombone, if I may.  My son is looking for an intermediate horn for concert band (10th grade).  Any suggestions on intermediate level trombones?  With F attachments?  Have you ever heard of RS Berkeley horns?


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## AwayWeGo

*I Used To Play Trombone But I Let That Slide.  (Yuk-Yuk-Yuk-Yuk-Yuk-Yuk).*




			
				mbender10 said:
			
		

> Have you ever heard of RS Berkeley horns?


Just because I never heard of'm doesn't mean they aren't any good -- or that they _are_ any good, for that matter.  Shucks, the company has only been around since 2002, according to their web site. 

No clue I can get from the company's web page about the country of origin of their instruments -- U.S.A., Europe, Japan, Korea, Taiwain, mainland China, who knows? 

I'd have to rely on the experience-based knowledge of an actual trombone player, a trombone teacher, or at least the school band teacher.  Otherwise, I'd cautiously stick with known quality makers like Yamaha, Bach, Holton, Conn, etc., or even Jupiter or Amati. 

Another useful trombone Internet link is right here. 

Incidentally, even though Bach & Conn & Holton are now all under common ownership, their product lines are still separate & distinct as far as I know. 

Good luck -- & above all (to the budding trombonist), keep on practicing.
-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


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## AwayWeGo

*Bought A Non-Accidental Horn -- Premeditated All The Way.*

It's a wrecked   Amati-Kraslice CHR-343 clone -- complete, but in b-a-a-a-d condition.  Looks like somebody took a soldering flame to it 20 years ago, started to work on it, then put it away in a major serious disconnected condition. A few dings, including 1 big dent, but decent finish despite everything. 

The idea is to turn it over to my local brass-instruments repair guy for fixa-fixa-fixa, plus some nice custom touches, then put it back on eBay & see if I can make a little something by reselling it in restored & ready-to-go condition.  

If so, it will help make up for getting taken to the cleaners recently when I sold off my outstanding customized Yamaha YHR-668N, which I no longer need after "accidentally" purchasing that even more outstanding Yamaha YHR-666N. 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


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## AwayWeGo

*Maynard Ferguson R.I.P.*

The king of screech trumpet recently passed away.  He will be missed.  

Folks with high-speed connections should be sure to click on the audio-video link, not only to hear some of Maynard's stratospheric playing but also to enjoy the trombone artistry of the young guy Maynard introduces from the section. 

Good stuff. 
-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


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## AwayWeGo

*Unloaded 1 Via Craig's List -- But Eyeballing Another eBay Special.*

Somebody wanting to buy a horn for $1*,*500 put a wanted notice on Craig's List, to which I responded politely.   We exchanged E-Mails & some phone calls, then -- _yadda-yadda-yadda_ -- the person came over after work & bought 1 of my horns for $799, a bargain for the buyer & a (modest) profit for the seller.  (Not enough profit, however, to make up for getting taken to the cleaners on the outstanding customized Yamaha YHR-668N I sold on eBay a while back.  So it goes.) 

Now the money is burning a hole in my pocket -- might spend some of it on a nice-looking underappreciated horn I spied on eBay recently, depending on whether the bidding stays low.  

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


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## AwayWeGo

*Got Outsniped.  So It Goes.*

Somebody outbid me by the minimim increment. 

Am I unhappy?  Nope.  I would have been glad to have the horn at my price.  For my price + 1 cent, I am not interested. 

The system works. 
-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


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## taffy19

You are so disciplined.   Another horn will come along.    To be successful in buying timeshares on the cheap, the same discipline is true and a program will do it for you.   

When emotions take over, you will pay too much but not always!   We have witnessed two real estate auctions in person of beautiful ocean front condos where this happened but these condos are worth so much more money today so buying on emotions did well for the people who bought.

I watch the eBay auctions every once and a while just for fun and it gets exciting when the bidding goes fast.


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## AwayWeGo

*Old Man Playing eBay Horn.*




The instrument I'm playing is the outstanding eBay Yamaha YHR-666N that is now 1 of my keepers.  The picture was taken December 2006 in Fairfax VA at a rehearsal for the City Of Fairfax Band's annual holiday concert.  A few weeks later I took the horn with me on vacation to Orlando FL, & on band practice night for the Lakeland Concert Band, I drove on up to Lakeland & sat in on rehearsal with them. 

Yamaha YHR-666 & YHR-666N are discontinued models, manufactured 1981-1985 only.  (YHR-666 is made of conventional yellow "cartridge" brass.  YHR-666N is made of a silver-colored alloy known variously as nickel silver & German silver, which contains zero actual silver -- basically it's just a whitish brass.)  I think I figured out why the Yamaha brain trust decided to quit making them.  It could have gone something like this:  One day, a product manager rushes into the Yamaha executive suite with some devastating news.  "Sir, we have a big problem with our French horn line."  

"Oh?" says the Yamaha bigwig.  "What kind of problem?" 

"Well, sir, it turns out our intermediate-grade student step-up model horn plays better, sounds better, & has better intonation than our top-line professional model horn.  What are we going to do?" 

"Only 1 thing we _can_ do." 

"What's that, sir?" 

"Immediately discontinue our intermediate-grade student step-up model horn.  Got that?" 

"Yes, sir." 

Far as I know, the Yamaha musical instrument division is separate from the Yamaha motorcycle division & the Yamaha outboard engine division.  My next-door neighbor's son has an older model Ford Taurus SHO equipped with a Yamaha V6 engine.  Who'd a-thunk? 
-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


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## taffy19

Nice photo and your story makes sense.  It may well have happened that way.


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## AwayWeGo

*Emmy, You Are So Right.*




iconnections said:


> Another horn will come along.


I have been rebuilding credibility with The Chief Of Staff by selling off some of the unloved horns I have around here, 1s I got tired of or that I bought low with the specific intent of re-selling high(er).  Then another rarity came along that The Devil made me buy:  an eBay Selmer (Paris) professional model double horn, the only 1 like it I've seen in person or in photographs or anywhere -- & believe me, I've seen some horns. 

Selmer (Paris) -- as distinct from Selmer USA -- is known mainly for its highly prized lines of professional clarinets & saxophones.  The Selmer (Paris) folks bought out what was left of Adolphe Sax's instrument works in the 1920s.  Including its famous professional clarinets & saxes, Selmer (Paris) mainly builds quality instruments for the professional market, while Selmer USA mainly builds student-grade instruments for amateur & school musicians.  (But, shucks, some of us amateur musicians with more money than brains buy professional grade horns anyhow.  That way, if there's ever a question in my mind about whether some performance problem I'm having is due to the instrument on the 1 hand or due on the other hand to my own lack of ability, I know for sure it's due to my lack of ability.  So it goes.) 

That particular Selmer (Paris) horn I bought is such a rarity that when I Google or DogPile "Selmer (Paris) double horn" or "Selmer (Paris) double French horn," the only true match that comes up is the completed eBay item for the actual, specific horn I just bought.  All the other "hits" are false positives for web sites that mention "Selmer (Paris)" 1 place & "double horn" or "double French horn" some other place, as with on-line instrument catalogue listings that include anybody's double horns (e.g., Conn, Holton, Yamaha) right along with Selmer (Paris) saxophones or clarinets or both. 

The unique design of the horn brings to mind something I've heard Click & Clack The Tappet Bros. say about French automobiles:  _The French copy nobody, & nobody copies the French._  Even if that's true for cars & horns, it's not true for saxophones.  Everybody copies the Selmer (Paris) line of saxes.  And as if in testimonial to the prestige of the Selmer (Paris) marque, one of the no-name, low-grade _el cheapo_ brands of saxes, horns, trumpets, etc., seen all over eBay is _Selman_ -- as in, "Don't buy cheap junk.  Insist on genuine Selman," as if "Selman" itself weren't cheap junk.  

On this particular eBay auction that I won, I did not get caught up in any competitive bidding.  The item came up, on Day 1 I bid a few bux over the starting amount, nobody else bid all week, & I won the auction for the opening bid amount -- the 2nd time that's happened to me as buyer. As if to compensate, it's also happened to me a few times as seller. 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


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## AwayWeGo

*Goodbye Selmer (Paris) Double Horn -- Hello Fake Alexander 103*

I made a little something flipping my Selmer (Paris) double horn via eBay -- not enough to make up for getting taken to the cleaners when I sold my customized Yamaha YHR-668N*,* but a little something nonetheless. 

One might think I had learnt my lesson regarding eBay horn bids.  But no.  I still check out the eBay horn offerings & I still send in lowball bids that quickly got outbid by others.  Occasionally though -- as in rarely -- a lowball bid will stand up & will win.  I have "accidentally" bought several horns that way.  (At least they're not "accidental" timeshares.) 

Now, I need another horn around here like a Moose needs a Hat Rack.  That didn't stop me from bidding low on an eBay fake Alexander 103 described by the seller as practically new. 

The eBay seller is up in Annapolis MD, so maybe I can arrange with the seller to pay for the horn & pick it up in person.  Otherwise, I'll mail the seller a check & wait for 1 of those big brown trucks to deliver the horn. 

I've already got a fake Alexander 102ST.  Might as well add a fake Alexander 103 to the collection.  That only ups the pressure to sell off more of the unloved horns around here, come what may.  

Meanwhile, nobody has bid (yet) on that cute little Mirafone B-flat single horn I'm offering on eBay -- although 11 people are "watching" it.  Maybe some of them have set up automated last-second bids on eSnipe.com -- I hope so.  By Sunday night I'll know. 

So it goes. 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


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## wackymother

Alan, could you post a link to the Selmer auction? I'd like to see the horn. 

Thanks for posting all this. My grandfather was a musician, but musical ability has skipped generation after generation around here.


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## AwayWeGo

*Selmer (Paris) Horn Pictures Gone (I.E., No Longer On Internet).*




wackymother said:


> Alan, could you post a link to the Selmer auction? I'd like to see the horn.


I took the Selmer (Paris) double horn pictures off the Internet to make room on the server for all those digital photos of the Mirafone B-flat single horn that's currently on eBay.  The only Selmer (Paris) horn picture left at eBay is the 1 eBay hosted free (way down at the bottom of the page).  All the others are off.  

But I didn't delete the Selmer (Paris) pix off my own electric computer at home. I still have'm & I could send some via E-Mail if you want more views of the horn than you get from that lone photo remaining on eBay. 

Let me know. 

Meanwhile, what musical "ability" I once had ( -- if any -- ) is rapidly deteriorating into a semi-nostalgic horn collecting hobby fueled by eBay.  I can (mostly) keep up with the good players if I practice every day.  When I don't, I can't  So it goes. 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


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## wackymother

Just the one is enough, thanks--I'm just nosy. Beautiful horn! 

When we were kids and into our teens, my father dragged my sister and me to every Salvation Army and checked out every strange musical instrument. (He plays the clarinet and the saxophone.) (Not too well.) He bought a few but left most of them behind. Now I could kick myself, because there were some fantastic things...of course there's always eBay!

Thanks again for posting!


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## wackymother

Oh, I just looked at the Mirafone! Love the little dimes on the keys!


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## AwayWeGo

*Dimes.*




wackymother said:


> Oh, I just looked at the Mirafone! Love the little dimes on the keys!


There are 3 _Good Reasons_ & 1 _Real Reason_ for soldering dimes onto the horn valve levers, to wit . . . 

1.  By positioning the dimes so they extend slightly beyond the lever tips, the levers can be lengthened a bit*,* if needed*,* to accommodate players with smallish hands. 

2.  Dimes add thickness to levers that have worn thin at the ends from longtime use. 

3.  Dimes on the levers give a constant tactile reminder of optimum finger position -- that is, with the fingers arched so that the fingertips are up by the wide parts of the levers. 

4.  Silver dimes on the valve levers are _Way Cool !_ 




Base-metal dimes, however, are uncool.  For customizing valve levers on horns, the coins have to be genuine silver.  (Gold is too ostentatious -- more so than silver*,* I mean*,* not to mention more costly.)  So USA & Canada dimes used for that purpose have to be minted 1964 or earlier.  That's why I go for the USA silver "Mercury" (i.e., Winged Liberty) dimes -- they're all genuine silver*,* with no need to check the dates on'm to be sure.  Roosevelt dimes after 1964 are base metal, but 1964 & earlier are silver.  Ditto Canadian "sailboat" dimes.  So it goes. 

Some horn players go to the trouble of installing dimes minted in the year of the player's birth -- no problem for us Old Folks.  However, that's way too much trouble to go to, & starts veering over from _Way Cool_ to _Way Eccentric_ -- not that there's anything wrong with that.  (I mean*,* shux*,* just playing horn at all is pretty far over on the eccentric side, no?  All the more so for an eBay-using, timeshare-owning, Old Folks kind of horn player -- not that there's anything wrong with that, either.) 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## wackymother

AwayWeGo said:


> starts veering over from _Way Cool_ to _Way Eccentric_ -- not that there's anything wrong with that.  [/RIGHT]



Good thing, as I am tending to veer that way myself these days.  So did you solder these dimes on yourself? Or did the horn come that way?


----------



## AwayWeGo

*Custom Horn Work Done Professionally.*




wackymother said:


> So did you solder these dimes on yourself? Or did the horn come that way?


I had the custom work (dimes, water key) done professionally by the same local guy (retired U.S. Army Band tuba player) who did the dent repairs, etc. 

I can fix Sears & WhirlPool clothes dryers & install dishwashers & swap out toilets, but that's about it as far as handyman stuff goes. 

The dimes came from eBay.  I still have some more left, just in case The Devil makes me buy any more eBay horns needing customizing -- 1 never know, do 1 ? 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## AwayWeGo

*Mirafone Did Not Sell -- So I Put It Back On eBay For Another Go.*

No luck after 1 week. 

I'm trying it again. 

So it goes. 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## AwayWeGo

*Dang!  Mirafone Did Not Sell After 2nd Try On eBay.*

So I jacked up the price (over the eBay opening bid that never materialized) & put the horn on Craig's List. 

So it goes. 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## AwayWeGo

*So This Guy . . .*

. . . responds to my Craig's List Mirafone ad, not because he has any interest in the Mirafone -- it's a single B-flat horn & he's interested in a double horn in F & B-flat -- but because he figures from the wording of the ad that maybe I know a thing or 2 about horns & possibly could suggest where he might find 1 to buy that's (a) decent & (b) affordable. 

I start to give him (via E-Mail) a short version of _eBay French Horn 101_ *.*  Then I come to my senses.  Instead, I tell him all about a nice no-name Czech-made double horn I have that I decided to sell after I unload the Mirafone.  Shux, no need to sell the Mirafone 1st if this guy might want the Czech horn. 

So _yadda-yadda-yadda_ the guy comes over & checks out both horns -- the Mirafone & the Czech no-name -- & he likes'm (specially the no-name Czech double horn).  But he is short on funds.  So I get instantly creative.  I tell him I have not yet photographed the horn he likes & if he's interested in it I will not put it on Craig's List till I hear back from him. 

He says he _is_ interested, & not only that he might be receiving some holiday money of the kind that grows on trees (family trees, that is).  Great, I say. 

Then I promised to do nothing with that horn till I hear from the guy -- even though he is not committed 1 way or another about buying it.   Plus, I say, we'll be away 2 weeks in January, so he need not worry if he's unable to contact me till late next month. 

He thanks me for inviting him in & letting him play my horns.  I thank him for coming over & checking'm out.  We shake hands.  The guy leaves.  I might not ever see him again -- or he might come back later on & spring for my unloved no-name Czech-made double horn.  We'll see. 

Meanwhile, I am now thinking of photographing my outstanding Cousenon (Paris) 1920's-era _Tuxedo_ model "peashooter" trumpet -- the kind Louis Armstrong played -- so I can put that on Craig's List 1 of these days.  It's always something. 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## AwayWeGo

*Glutton For Punishment.*

Even though the unloved Mirafone horn is still unsold, The Devil made me buy a nice little eBay Geyer-wrap double horn (keys of F _and_ B-flat all in 1 instrument -- very tricky) via eSnipe.  

Nobody else even bid at all, so I got the horn for the opening no-reserve bid amount, which is $50 or so less than the seller's _Buy It Now_ price. 

I'm thinking of having some minimal custom work done, then photographing the horn way more than my seller did so when I put it back on eBay it won't be overlooked the way it was when I bought it. 

Best case scenario -- I make a little something. 

Worst case scenario -- I have another surplus horn taking up space around here. 

We'll see, eh ? 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## Steamboat Bill

Thre real question - is it a PINK horn?


----------



## AwayWeGo

*eBay Horn, No.  String, Yes.*




Steamboat Bill said:


> Thre real question - is it a PINK horn?


The eBay horn is just standard yellow "cartridge" brass -- not that there's anything wrong with that for horns, trombones, trumpets, tubas, saxophones, etc.  

However that may be, I just got done bundling up a humongous pile of back yard fallen tree debris using pink string from a humongous ball of twine that I bought specially with that purpose in mind at a flea market near St. Augustine FL.  

The string is not so much cell-phone pink as the color traffic cones would be if traffic cones were pink instead of orange. 

The shocking pink string stands out conspicuously against the greenish-brownish hue of the branches & leaves.  That way the pick-up crew riding on the yard debris truck can plainly tell the stuff is appropriately bundled & tied.  With green or grey or brown string, the bundled tree debris might be mistaken for an unbundled heap, which the trash truck guys would not bother picking up. 

So the stuff is all chopped, cut, bundled, & set out front for pick-up in the morning.  I'll let you know what happens. 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## AwayWeGo

*The Pink String Did The Job.*

The truck rolled into the circle & backed right up to the stacked bundles of tree debris all trussed up in pink string. 

The guys leapt off the truck, heaved all the bundles into the hopper, flushed the handle, jumped back on, & dieseled off to the next stop. 

Is this a great country or what ? 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## Art4th

Alan,
     I'll bet you don't have one of these:  http://defreestvillefire.org/horn.jpg
This is one you definitely have to play standing up  .


----------



## AwayWeGo

*Musical Instrument?   Or Non-Traditional Plumbing Fixture ?*




Art4th said:


> Alan,
> I'll bet you don't have one of these:  http://defreestvillefire.org/horn.jpg
> This is one you definitely have to play standing up.


I think anybody using that horn for its intended purpose will need to be standing up. 





-- hotlinked --​
Kind of hard to tell for sure, but from the way that 1 is hooked up, it might actually be the world famous _Gold Commode_. 





--hotlinked --​
You won't find _that_ at Home Depot or Lowe's. 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## AwayWeGo

*Mirafone Horn That Didn't Sell On eBay -- Twice -- Is Back On eBay.*




wackymother said:


> Oh, I just looked at the Mirafone! Love the little dimes on the keys!


If it doesn't sell this time I might as well give it to The Salvation Army. 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## AwayWeGo

*O. K. -- After Just 7 More Days, That Horn Is Out Of Here.*




> If it doesn't sell this time I might as well give it to The Salvation Army.


One bidder came through already & it's a no-reserve auction on eBay, so that means after a week's time the Mirafone horn is out of here. 

I might make a little something on it or I might get taken to the cleaners (again), but at least something is happening. 

Meanwhile, I've got 1 more horn ready to photograph & list on eBay, plus 1 more on its way to me via UPS or FedEx Ground or some such.  

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## AwayWeGo

*Latest eBay Horn Pictures. (Hotlinked Off eBay -- They'll Disappear Soon.)*



















It's on the truck now -- should be delivered here today or tomorrow.  

Maybe I can make a little something on this 1 -- either that or get taken to the cleaners yet again. 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## AwayWeGo

*Pink String Follow-Up.*

After all the bundles of tree debris got tied up in pink string & picked up at the curb, we were left with an 8-foot-long tree trunk lying on the ground out back.  

The plan was to wait for a nice day, then go out with the circular power saw (designed for cutting 2x4s rather than sawing logs, but we just go with what we've got) & cutting as deeply as possible around the circumference at 2-foot intervals, then cutting the rest of the way through via a keen & tough pruning saw that really does the job evens though it's powered only by elbow grease. 

That nice day is today -- 67 degrees at late morning with a forecast high temperature of 78 with low humidity.  

So I grabbed up my work gloves & extension cord & circular saw & pruning saw & headed out back.  Then I turned right around & put everything away.  

It turns out that without our knowing about it, a helpful neighbor had chainsawed the fallen tree trunk into convenient lengths appropriate for the fireplace.  All I had to do was pick'm up & take'm over to the woodpile.  So I did. 

Case closed. 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## AwayWeGo

*Bought Amati Double Horn, Received King Single Horn.  Next Up = Returna-Turna-Turna.*

The FedEx Ground truck pulled up in the circle this morning, as expected.  Inside the big carton left by the front door was the wrong horn.  Sheesh. 

When I called the eBay seller to complain that the wrong horn had just been delivered, he said he was expecting my call because the buyer of the King single horn had already called saying he received my Amati double horn by mistake yesterday. 

So, the seller said he is going to E-Mail me his FedEx Ground account information plus the name & address of the guy who bought the King single horn.  That way the King can go straight to its intended destination without detouring back through Lubbock TX. 

Presumably something similar will be worked out at the other end to redirect the wayward Amati double horn to me.  We'll see. 

Oh, the eBay seller also said he'll refund the shipping cost I paid, just to compensate for the mix-up.  We'll see about that too, eh? 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## AwayWeGo

*Wrong Horn Out Of Here.  Right Horn En Route.*

Not only that, the eBay seller refunded all shipping charges as a way of compensating for the mail room flub.  

By E-Mail, he sent me a new prepaid shipping label for the wrong horn.  I reboxed the missent horn & slapped on the label & took it up to a convenient shipping drop-off spot near here. 

Plus, he E-Mailed me the new Tracking Number for the correct horn, which has also been re-sent. 

If everybody lives happily ever after, I'll give the seller favorable eBay feedback. 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## AwayWeGo

*Weirdest eBay Adventure Yet.*

OK, the correct horn showed up in a big box delivered by FedEx Ground.  I open up the carton & pick up the horn case by the handle, shaking off the pink plastic foam peanuts.  I open up the horn case.  Inside, I see not a complete & intact horn but the pieces of the horn -- the instrument shown in the eBay item photographs, but not in the condition it was in in the 4 photos. 

I turned on the electric computer & sent the eBay seller the following message via E-Mail: 

*Hi [ -- name -- ] 

The text of your eBay item description for the Amati "as is" double horn is pasted in below, for reference.

I understand & accept as-is.  However, the condition of the disassembled horn inside the case goes way beyond "dings, finish wear and signs of repair."

When I opened up the case, the horn was -- still is -- in 4 disconnected pieces.  There's the outer body of the horn, including bell flare & bell tail & 1st branch & lead pipe, etc.  There's the valve section, including all 6 valve slides.  And there are 2 tuning slides, which can't be inserted into anything at the moment because the tubes into which they get inserted are partly on the outer main section & partly on the inner valve section -- so until those 2 disconnected parts are reunited in a way that accurately spaces the tuning slide receivers nice & parallel, there's nothing that the tuning slides can be slid into.

It seems unlikely that's the condition the horn was in when you sent it out, because the pictures with your eBay item description show the horn all together in 1 piece with all the slides fully inserted, including the 2 tuning slides. So if the horn was OK (as described in your eBay item listing) when it left your location, then the condition it's in now must be the result of something that happened to it between there & here, including its intermediate stop.

You don't think the person who received the Amati double horn by mistake (instead of the King single horn) attempted surgery on the Amati, do you -- e.g., starting out to make a quasi-natural horn via valvectomy before realizing he or she was unsoldering the wrong horn ?

The packing carton was loosely stuffed with crumpled newspaper & a bunch of pink plastic foam peanuts all around the latched horn case.  But there was no cushioning material inside the loose-fitting case to prevent the horn -- or, more correctly, the horn parts -- from shifting & clanking around inside the case.  Conceivably that rattle-around space could be enough to allow the solder joints to break loose at the 3 places in the tubing where the central valve section used to be attached to the outer main section of the horn, but somehow I doubt it.   But if you think I should put in a "concealed damage" claim with FedEx Ground, I will do it.

I'd like to get your take on this eBay Amati horn kit.  I think the horn was deliberately taken apart -- not simply bucked & bounced to pieces by FedEx shipping.  I mean, horns are semi-fragile & all, but not THAT fragile. Plus the horn isn't all dented up, it's all taken apart.

What do you think?

-- Alan Cole, McLean, Virginia, USA. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~​eBay Item Description:  This is a Amati double horn. The slides slide and the valves are free. It is being sold "as is" so you can get any repair done it needs.
We didn't have time to run these through the shop. We are clearing out our inventory to get some space. So, buy this one "as is". Please check our other auctions for more bargains.

Case is poor and it does not come with a mouthpiece.

It is used and does have some dings, finish wear and signs of repair.

Items are used and are sold “as is”. 
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~​*
I got the following E-Mail response from the eBay seller: 

Alan,  

If I am understanding what you are saying, it was taken apart at it's last stop - I don't know why-  

Let me know what you want to do. If you want a partial refund or a full refund, just let me know.  

thanks,

So I promptly E-Mailed back: 

*Hi [ -- name -- ]

Yep, somebody took the horn all  apart -- for sure.  Your eBay pictures showed it was all together when you had it, so the only explanation has to be that the person who started taking it apart is the person who (briefly) had it before it was redirected to me.  

If I received the wrong horn from FedEx or UPS, etc., I would not start taking it apart or doing things to it that are hard to undo.  But that's just me.   

Maybe you can get the person who did it to own up to it.  It shouldn't be your problem or my problem that a 3rd party seriously damaged the horn. 

But in fairness I think it is your problem that the Amati took its fateful detour & landed in the hands of the Horn Destroyer before it got repacked & re-shipped to me.  Maybe the guy in the mail room does need to get fired after all.  

I am willing to pay $100 for the Amati wreckage if that's OK with you.. The local brass repair guy who brought my eBay Lyon Monarch double horn back from the dead ought to be able to do something similar with the dismembered Amati, which at least is complete, although in pieces. 

If a $150 refund is not OK, I'm wiling to repack everything -- with more cushioning protection for the separate loose parts than they had when I got'm -- & send the whole works back to you.

Let me know. 

-- Alan Cole, McLean VA             

PS -- My eBay customized Mirafone Bb single horn finally sold -- 3rd time was the charm.  The buyer loves it -- gave good feedback saying it sounds more like an F horn than a single Bb horn.  She also loved the packing & shipping -- as well she should because of all the care I took to make sure the horn got there OK.    It would have been nicer if I'd made a little something on the sale, but at least the Mirafone is out of here.   Win some.  Lose some.  So it goes.       -AC.* 

Very soon after that, I got an automated PayPal notice of $150 refund, plus the following E-Mail from the eBay seller: 

Alan,  

Sometimes things happen. I figure it's better to try to make the buyer happy no matter what.  

I refunded the $150 -  

Sorry for the inconvenience -  

Watch my auctions in the future and I will make sure it goes smoother next time!  

thanks,

I acknowledged the refund, with thanks, & gave the eBay seller the following feedback notation: 

*Cool Horn. Odd eBay Adventure. Happy Ending. Great Seller Integrity. A++ A++ A++*

All's well that ends well.  On this 1, who'd a-thunk it would come out anything like this ? 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​​


----------



## AwayWeGo

*Another Horn Out Of Here.*

I photographed it, put it on Craig's List, got an E-Mail query the next morning, & a follow-up phone call the day after that.  

The call led to an in-person try-out of the horn at my house by a community band guy who wanted a better horn than the old _el crappo_ instrument he'd been struggling with. 

After 35 minutes or so of experimental honking, he made an offer, we haggled minimally, we reached a deal, he wrote me a check, & he left with the horn.  

Later that day, the buyer called back with some questions (which I answered), leading me to believe he was experiencing buyer regret & setting me up for a request to give him his money back (which I would have done -- wouldn't want him to feel stuck with an unloved instrument). 

The day after that, he called again to say how much he was enjoying playing the horn, how happy he is to have it, how much he appreciates being in touch with other community horn players, & thanking me for selling him the horn. 

I have 2 more unloved horns that I've decided I'll be happier selling off than keeping, so as time permits I'll photograph them & get them ready for eBay or Craig's List or both. 

Meanwhile, that tough-luck eBay Amati double horn will be coming back from the shop 1 of these days, so that will be 1 more to debate keeping or selling.  (I'm starting out with the idea I'll sell it -- but 1 never know, do 1 ?) 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## Kona Lovers

Thanks for the updates, Alan.  The Saga of Alan's Horns is definitely on par with the Alan's Dinky Travel Trailer epic.

----and there's nothing wrong with either one!!!!  

Marty


----------



## AwayWeGo

*Dinky Is As Dinky Does.*




Kona Lovers said:


> The Saga of Alan's Horns is definitely on par with the Alan's Dinky Travel Trailer epic.


The Dinky Trailer saga is another ongoing story. 

Click here for the latest chapter of that. 

It's always something. 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## AwayWeGo

*Suspicions Pretty Much Confirmed . . .*




AwayWeGo said:


> Yamaha YHR-666 & YHR-666N are discontinued models, manufactured 1981-1985 only.  (YHR-666 is made of conventional yellow "cartridge" brass.  YHR-666N is made of a silver-colored alloy known variously as nickel silver & German silver, which contains zero actual silver -- basically it's just a whitish brass.)  I think I figured out why the Yamaha brain trust decided to quit making them.  It could have gone something like this:  One day, a product manager rushes into the Yamaha executive suite with some devastating news.  "Sir, we have a big problem with our French horn line."
> 
> "Oh?" says the Yamaha bigwig.  "What kind of problem?"
> 
> "Well, sir, it turns out our intermediate-grade student step-up model horn plays better, sounds better, & has better intonation than our top-line professional model horn.  What are we going to do?"
> 
> "Only 1 thing we _can_ do."
> 
> "What's that, sir?"
> 
> "Immediately discontinue our intermediate-grade student step-up model horn.  Got that?"
> 
> "Yes, sir."


. . . about Yamaha YHR-666. 

Click here for what Tony Halstead says about that discontinued model. 

Pretty much consistent with my conjecture, wouldn't you say ? 

Lucky for me, I got my outstanding eBay Yamaha YHR-666N for way less than Tony is asking for his -- even though there is no doubt in my mind that his is worth every penny he's asking. 

Tony Halstead's assessment of Yamaha YHR-666 eases the pain somewhat of getting taken to the cleaners the way I did when I sold off my unneeded customized Yamaha YHR-668N on eBay right after I bought the eBay YHR-666N. 

Time heals all wounds, eh ? 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## AwayWeGo

*Too Rich For My Blood -- Way Too Rich.*

OK, I like tricky horns as well as the next guy -- better, actually (but that's another story).  

Even so, I can't fathom why _anybody_ would pay $49*,*999+ for _any_ horn, no matter how tricky & exquisite & rare.  





-- hotlinked --​
Seeing is believing -- click here to see the _Fifty Grand Horn_ right there on eBay. 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## Passepartout

AwayWeGo said:


> -- hotlinked --​
> Seeing is believing -- click here to see the _Fifty Grand Horn_ right there on eBay.
> 
> -- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​



DW tells me the Alexander is a pretty good horn, but she's still fond of her dull, unvarnished Paxman.

Jim Ricks


----------



## AwayWeGo

*Or As It's Called Using Gender-Inclusive Language . . .*




Passepartout said:


> DW tells me the Alexander is a pretty good horn, but she's still fond of her dull, unvarnished Paxman.


* . . . *Paxperson. 

( Not that there's anything wrong with that. ) 

At band practice tonight, the horns being played in the section were 1 Conn 8D & 1 Atkinson & 1 Lawson 804 & 1 Yamaha YHR-666N & 2 Holton Farkas models -- no Alexanders & no Paxpeople. 

( Not that there's anything wrong with that either. ) 

All the horns mentioned above were all shiny -- factory-polished & varnished in a clear lacquer except for the unlacquered Atkinson.  The Atkinson & the Lawson are screwbell horns. 

In fact, 1 of the Holton Farkas players had just picked up her 25-year-old fixed-bell horn from the workshop of a custom brass instrument technician who took out all the dents & dings (there weren't many) & repolished & relacquered the horn so it looks & plays like new, then packed it in a brand-new OEM hardshell carrying case.  

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## AwayWeGo

*Destroyed eBay Horn Is Now Un-Destroyed.*

Click here for the rest of the story. 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## AwayWeGo

*Shux, I Thought You Were Kidding.*



Steamboat Bill said:


> Thre real question - is it a PINK horn?






-- hotlinked -- ​
-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA. ​


----------



## AwayWeGo

*Cool Horn Photos.  (Cool Horn, That Is -- Not Cool Photos.)*
























-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## AwayWeGo

*More Photos Of Cool Horn.*



















-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## AwayWeGo

*Tough-Luck Amati Is Back & On Craig's List.*




AwayWeGo said:


> Meanwhile, that tough-luck eBay Amati double horn will be coming back from the shop 1 of these days, so that will be 1 more to debate keeping or selling.  (I'm starting out with the idea I'll sell it -- but 1 never know, do 1 ?


The tough-luck Amati came back from the shop looking great, but unfortunately not playing all that well -- stuffy, pitches not centering, hard to play, almost like something was jammed inside. 

The instrument technician who put it all back together -- & added some outstanding custom features while he was at it (detachable screw bell flare, silver USA dimes on the 1-2-3 valve levers) -- had another go at it, making sure all the valve-stops were properly aligned so that the valves open fully in the up position & close fully in the down position, & re-checking for any hidden blockages in the various turns & bends. 

Whatever he did pretty much took care of the problem.  So today I photographed the Amati & put it on Craig's List, right along with a near-new but unloved no-name horn that I put on Craig's List last week. 

A solid & good-playing ugly duckling of a horn that I put on Craig's List the previous week actually sold after just a couple of days.  Unfortunately I'm not getting many calls -- as in none so far -- from people interested in the Amati & the no-name.  So it goes. 

Meanwhile, somebody on Capitol Hill recently was offering on Craig's List a rare Yamaha YHR-666N like mine, for a bit less than I paid for mine on eBay.  I made contact with the seller & would have made a lowball offer -- even though I need another YHR-666N like a frog needs a hair net --- but fortunately somebody came along & bought it before I could arrange to go see it.  

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## AwayWeGo

*Snagged Another Horn On eBay, Then 1 More Next Day On Craig's List.*

The Chief Of Staff already knows about the Craig's List horn -- a nice but semi-battered Yamaha YHR-321 4-valve single horn in B-flat -- because she went with me to go pick it up from the seller over in Arlington VA down by the Ballston Metro station. 

She does not know about the eBay horn, however -- a newish Holton 3-valve single horn in B-flat that I did not expect to win -- because I haven't figured out the most diplomatic way of couching the news.  

The eBay Holton counts as another "accidental" horn.  My bid was just a tiny tad over the minimum opening amount.  But there were no other bidders all week, so my paltry bid held up & when the auction ended I "won" the horn.  So it goes. 

In the past, I have bought & flipped plenty of single B-flat horns -- some Conns, a 4-valve King, some Oldses, a 4-valve Chinese no-name horn, a Mirafone, & 1 Austrian-made horn labeled Zalzer.  The Conns played well & I liked them.  The others played OK but nothing special. 

With these latest acquisitions, I will be going from _Zero_ B-flat horns back up to 2.  The Yamaha is already in the hands of a professional brass instrument technician for dent repair & minor customizing (silver dimes being soldered onto the 1-2-3 valve levers).  The Holton is on a truck somewhere between Detroit & here on its way to me.  I'm sure I'll figure out what to tell The Chief Of Staff before the box it's in lands on our doorstep. 

This morning I was outbid during the closing hours of an eBay auction for another Olds single B-flat horn that was going cheap because it needed repairs.  I might have upped my bid if I had not already won the eBay Holton & sprung for the Craig's List Yamaha.  As it is, it's a blessing the Olds will be going to somebody else.  However that may be, I don't expect The Chief Of Staff to cut me any slack on the Yamaha & the Holton just because I got outbid on the Olds.  We'll see, eh ? 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## AwayWeGo

*Confession Is Good For The Soul.*

I came clean with The Chief Of Staff about the eBay Holton Bb horn I bought "accidentally."  In her kind & understanding way she was OK with it.  

She mainly wanted to know what I'm going to do with it -- i.e., play it on the 1 hand or flip it on the other hand.  

The honest answer is _That Depends_ -- i.e., on how well it plays, how well I like playing it, how it stacks up against the Craig's List Yamaha when that comes back from the shop. etc.  

I mean, I might add 1 single Bb horn to my inventory of keepers, but it's unlikely I'll keep 2. 

We'll see, eh ? 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## AwayWeGo

*eBay Holton H-650.*

eBay Holton Bb horn was delivered today, in reasonably decent condition -- only a few dents (minor), no stuck slides, valves work OK, & horn appears playable.  (I"ll stick a mouthpiece in it & pucker up & blow it later.)  It appears to be a Holton H-650 -- not that I am well versed (or versed at all) in Holton model numbers.  

Only problem right out of the box is that the horn was packed in a gig bag whose black padded lining looks OK but sheds rubbery dust & dirt that I got on my hands & that was all over the horn.  I had to put the horn in the laundry tub & -- literally -- hose it down to get the grime out of all the nooks & crannies.  

After drying off the horn, I could see that even the finish is pretty good.  I guess I'll have to throw out the gig bag if I can't find some way to seal or cover the lining so it no longer sheds black rubbery particles.  Just 1 more reason to shun gig bags ("dent bags") for carrying musical instruments.

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## AwayWeGo

*Craig's List Yamaha YHR-321 Is Back Home After Repairs.*

Just picked it up Sunday.  Looks great.  All dents removed.  All stuck slides loosened & moving smoothly after lubrication.  All four -- 4 -- valves restrung correctly.  FDR dimes -- silver (1964 & earlier) -- soldered onto the 1-2-3 valve levers.  

Have not yet had an opportunity for serious practice with it.  After a few sessions I expect to know whether it's a keeper. 





-- hotlinked --​
I have not yet photographed my Craig's List YHR-321.  The photo above was shamelessly ripped off from Homeless Horns Dot Com.  (I hope I won't get in too much trouble for that.  We'll see, eh?)

Meanwhile, my recently acquired eBay Holton H-650 is in the shop for removal of minor dents, plus clean up & inspection, etc. -- plus addition of a set of silver Roosevelt dimes to its 1-2-3 valve levers.  I dropped off the Holton when I picked up the Yamaha.  Holton should be ready for pick-up after The Chief Of Staff & I come home from our December timeshare vacation in Florida. 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## Bill4728

So Alan,

Just how many horns do you have?


----------



## AwayWeGo

*The Chief Of Staff Is Grateful That I Don't Collect Tubas.*




Bill4728 said:


> Just how many horns do you have?


In response to popular demand -- well, 2 or 3 people have asked at various times -- I decided I will fess up about the horns I've got around here. 

At the moment, only 1 horn is surplus -- surplus as in unneeded & unloved & actually up for sale.  As in, I'd like to get it out of here. 

---->  http://washingtondc.craigslist.org/nva/msg/1482453879.html 

Leading the list of non-surplus horns are my 3 absolute keepers that I've played frequently over the years in Fairfax Band & Potomac Brass & elsewhere -- my Lawson 804, my semi-rare Yamaha YHR-666N, & my Lawson-modified Alexander 103 (the horn my mother & dad gave me, new, in 1958 that I played in Virginia All-State Band that year in Roanoke VA). 

I also have a truly oddball Josef Lidl (Brno) compensating double horn patterned after a 1920s-era Karl Lehmann (Berlin) design featuring single airways in the 1-2-3 valve rotors plus a sideways mounted 4-airway rotor that not only accomplishes the change between Bb & F, but that also forms the U-turn point of the tubing extensions off the 1-2-3 valves when horn is in Bb mode.  I would have thought the Karl Lehmann design to be obselete, except that a recent _Horn Call_ magazine features a full-page advertisement for a high-end triple horn featuring two -- 2 -- of those sideways-mounted 4-airway rotors.  The claim in the ad is that their dual-compensating triple horn weighs less than a conventional double horn.  (Isn't that special?)  The real questions have more to do with sound & intonation, I'd say.  In that regard, my Jos. Lidl horn (which is in pristine condition, BTW, a real beauty) plays flat no matter what I do.  To my ear it's flat, anyway.  Other than that, it is an outstanding horn. 

I also have a plain-vanilla Conn single F horn, mainly used at Fairfax Band instrument petting zoo events for kids. 

A notable recent addition to the bunch is a Buescher "valvectomy" natural horn -- an incomplete single F horn converted to "natural" by replacing what was left of the valve cluster with a piece of straight-through tubing of appropriate length.  With the addition of an Eb slide (which I don't have), it might be good for playing Mozart.  (Trying to, anyway.)  I'm leaning toward offering the unnatural natural horn on eBay.  

The single Bb horns -- Yamaha YHR-321 & Holton H-650 -- are already described on TUG-BBS. 

I no longer have any compensating double horns, other than that oddball Lehmann-model horn by Jos. Lidl.  The no-name copy of Alexander 102ST that I overpaid for (bigtime) is out of here.  Lost my shirt on that.  Ditto the customized Yamaha full double YHR-668N that I sold after I got the YHR-666N.  I should have made big bux on that.  Instead I got taken to the cleaners -- again.  Go figure.  

My losses on the Yamaha & the no-name together offset virtually all the modest gains realized from all the Bb single horns & various double horns that I flipped since the advent of eBay -- all the Conn 6Ds, the Amati CHR-343s, the Conn 8D with bad valves, the Kings, the Buescher 6D copy, the Atkinson 8D copy, a Brasswind 28D copy, & others that I've no doubt forgotten -- including the amazing & unusual & semi-rare Selmer (Paris) full double horn that I bought via eBay & resold (to a Japanese collector) via eBay.   At least I had fun -- not to mention all the gainful employment Bob Pallansch got taking out dents & soldering on dimes & adding water keys & screwbell rings, etc. 

In the interests of Full Disclosure, I will mention also a Conn 6D I have that I borrowed from the EPA _Hazardous Wind Ensemble._  I have tried to return it, but they won't take it back.  It is currently out on loan to a high school student.  

That's my story & I'm sticking to it. 

Thanks for asking. 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## AwayWeGo

*Holton H-650 Update.*

The instrument repair technician called while I was away timesharing in Florida to let me know the Holton H-650 repairs were completed.  Even though we got home Saturday night, I didn't get round to picking up the horn & paying my repair bill ($45) till this morning. 

The horn looks & plays great -- could be a keeper, although if I keep the Holton H-650 then I'm flipping the Yamaha YHR-321 (& vice versa). 

As usual, it's an embarrassment of riches around here. 





-- hotlinked --​
The picture is a stock photo hotlinked from an internet music store's web site.  That will have to do till I get round to taking pictures of my own -- not that there's anything wrong with hotlinking pictures.  (Well, nothing wrong with it other than hijacking the bandwidth, I mean.) 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## AwayWeGo

*Craig's List Came Through Again.*




AwayWeGo said:


> At the moment, only 1 horn is surplus -- surplus as in unneeded & unloved & actually up for sale.  As in, I'd like to get it out of here.


Surplus horn is _gone__._ 

Somebody came over for it the day before Christmas Eve & tried it & liked it & bought it & took it away. 

It is _out of here._ 

Now the only surplus horn is _either_ the Yamaha YHR-321 _or_ the Holton H-650 -- have not yet decided which. 

I'm planning on having the Yamaha with me in Orlando next week & the following week, in case I get a chance to sit in again with the Lakeland Concert Band as I've done several times before when we've spent January weeks in that part of Florida. 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## AwayWeGo

*Oops -- I Did It Again.*




AwayWeGo said:


> Now the only surplus horn is _either_ the Yamaha YHR-321 _or_ the Holton H-650 -- have not yet decided which.


Turns out the Yamaha YHR-321 is a keeper -- nicest playing Bb single horn I've tried.  I took it with me to Florida last January & I played it when I sat in at rehearsal with the Lakeland Band.  

The Holton H-650 is now in the hands of a satisfied new owner, via eBay. 

Meanwhile, a semi-wrecked eBay Yamaha (not sure which model) is en route to me via UPS.  I need another horn like a frog needs a hair net, but the price was right ($13 below my eSnipe maximum), so I am OK with it.  What happens after the Yamaha gets here depends on whether it's fixable, the success of the repairs, & how it plays after that.  Stay tuned. 

Click here for some _How It's Made_ video showing the construction of a new horn.

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## AwayWeGo

*Semi-Wrecked eBay Yamaha Horn Is Now At The Repair Shop.*




AwayWeGo said:


> Meanwhile, a semi-wrecked eBay Yamaha (not sure which model) is en route to me via UPS.


UPS delivered it yesterday afternoon.  

This morning I handed it over to a professional brass instrument technician, who said he will do his best on it.

The horn appears to be a former school instrument.  That would account for its hard use & resulting semi-battered condition -- but not for the additional fact that some of its tubing has been (crudely) unsoldered & left unconnected.  Sheesh.

It is Yamaha model YHR-561, from the company's 1990-92 product line-up.

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## AwayWeGo

*French Horn Rescue.*




AwayWeGo said:


> This morning I handed it over to a professional brass instrument technician, who said he will do his best on it.
> 
> The horn appears to be a former school instrument.  That would account for its hard use & resulting semi-battered condition -- but not for the additional fact that some of its tubing has been (crudely) unsoldered & left unconnected.  Sheesh.
> 
> It is Yamaha model YHR-561, from the company's 1990-92 product line-up.


I picked up the repaired Yamaha YHR-561 yesterday & played the horn at band practice last night.  It played fine, but its looks are humble, to say the least. 

As if that weren't enough, this morning the devil made me offer $100 on a newish but badly damaged horn (crumpled bell flare) that the eBay seller was offering for $190 "buy it now" OBO.  The seller accepted my offer so fast it was amazing.  

I have an idea of the make & model of this latest rescue candidate, but I won't be sure till it's delivered -- the seller did not specify & the photos are not conclusive.  If it's what I'm expecting, it's a good deal even in damaged condition.  If not -- well, sometimes I bite the bear & sometimes the bear bites me.  

None of this would be practical if I didn't know somebody local who does competent professional brass instrument repairs at reasonable rates.   

Meanwhile, I have an eSnipe bid all set up & ready to go on yet another Yamaha YHR-561.  It's for such a low amount that I expect somebody else will bid higher before eSnipe gets a chance to (try to) send in my bid.

We'll see, eh ? 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## glypnirsgirl

Alan - you are as bad about bidding on horns on ebay as some of us are about bidding on timeshares. Thank goodness the horns don't have on-going maintenance fees --- or do they?

elaine


----------



## AwayWeGo

*Truer Words Were Never Typed.*




glypnirsgirl said:


> Alan - you are as bad about bidding on horns on ebay as some of us are about bidding on timeshares. Thank goodness the horns don't have on-going maintenance fees --- or do they?


Minimal maintenance is required on horns -- just keep'm clean, oil the valves, grease the slides, etc. 

When they get dented, the metal can be smoothed out again -- and getting that work done can be thought of as maintenance fees, I suppose.  (Preventing dents is much to be preferred, however -- & prevention costs nothing.  Just be careful with your instruments.  They are semi-fragile even though they are made of metal.  Don't leave'm lying around on chairs during halftime break, etc., at rehearsals.  Put'm away securely in their hard cases any time you don't have'm out for playing.  Use hard-shell carrying cases.  Don't pack'm in soft-side "gig bags," which should be thought of as "dent bags.")  

If French horn valves get eroded from corrosion (i.e, corroded & eroded), they can soon get so leaky that the horn no longer plays right -- poor intonation, poorly "slotted" notes, etc.  Chuck Ward says that 9 out of 10 horn players who think they need new leadpipes on their horns actually need valve jobs (i.e., replating the rotors to replace metal that eroded away from corrosion, remachining for exact fit with the valve bearings & cylinders, etc.).  

French horn valve jobs do not come cheap -- $125 or more per valve, so you're talking a minimum of $500 just for the valve work, which I suppose could be regarded as a special assessment, I don't know. 

Meanwhile, after I picked up the repaired eBay Yamaha YHR-561, the devil made me offer $100 (+ $30 shipping) for a new eBay horn that was pretty much wrecked -- i.e., serious crumpling of the bell flare.  From the configuration of the horn & the style & the emblem on the case (which was also damaged), I guessed that the horn might be a quality instrument that's worth _el fixo_.   

I won't know whether I guessed right or wrong till the instrument gets delivered next week. 

Sometimes I bite the bear.  Sometimes the bear bites me.  We'll see, eh? 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## Ridewithme38

I can't believe these things cost so much to maintain! I mean, can't you just pick them up at any bicycle shop?


----------



## AwayWeGo

*You Squeeze Your Squeeze-Bulb & I'll Squeeze Mine.*




Ridewithme38 said:


> I can't believe these things cost so much to maintain! I mean, can't you just pick them up at any bicycle shop?


Back in the era of crank-start automobiles & Stanley Steamers, etc., car horns were mostly of the (valveless) squeeze-bulb variety -- like that bike horn only lots bigger.  

Now & then, a big & semi-elaborate antique auto horn (minus rubber bulb) will show up on eBay in a musical instrument category. 

Without its squeeze bulb, it was not recognized by the seller as a car horn.  Assuming it had to be some kind of musical horn, the seller offered it in with all the various kinds of eBay musical horns -- an easy mistake for anybody unfamiliar with musical instruments & old cars both.    

As it happens, squeeze-bulb car horns are called for in a famous musical composition by George Gershwin titled An American In Paris.  

The thing is, the horn players in the band don't get to honk the auto horns.  The honor of squeezing the squeeze-bulbs is reserved for the drummers back in the percussion section.  (Go figure.)

BTW -- arranger of the linked U-Tube concert band version of that number is Jerry Brubaker, former (retired) chief arranger of the U.S. Navy Band, Washington DC, & current co-principal horn player in the City Of Fairfax Band.  As it happens, Jerry recently had a valve job done on his horn by none other than Chuck Ward.  (Jerry says his professional-model horn now plays better than when it was new.)  Small world, eh?

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## AwayWeGo

*More French Horn Rescue.*




AwayWeGo said:


> As if that weren't enough, this morning the devil made me offer $100 on a newish but badly damaged horn (crumpled bell flare) that the eBay seller was offering for $190 "buy it now" OBO.  The seller accepted my offer so fast it was amazing.
> 
> I have an idea of the make & model of this latest rescue candidate, but I won't be sure till it's delivered -- the seller did not specify & the photos are not conclusive.  If it's what I'm expecting, it's a good deal even in damaged condition.  If not -- well, sometimes I bite the bear & sometimes the bear bites me.
> 
> None of this would be practical if I didn't know somebody local who does competent professional brass instrument repairs at reasonable rates.
> 
> Meanwhile, I have an eSnipe bid all set up & ready to go on yet another Yamaha YHR-561.  It's for such a low amount that I expect somebody else will bid higher before eSnipe gets a chance to (try to) send in my bid.


Unknown damaged horn was delivered this afternoon.  Till I opened up the box & stripped off the bubble wrap so I could see it with my own eyeballs, I didn't know if I was getting a diamond in the rough or a piece of junk not worth fixing.  

Turns out its not newish at all -- just a C.G. Conn double horn marked Elkhart, Indiana. from Conn's heyday before they moved their horn works 1st to Abilene TX & later to Eastlake OH.  Serial number is in the "N" series, which is researchable via internet to determine year of manufacture.  

The Elkhart & "N" designations lead me to believe it's a Conn 28D, the yellow brass equivalent of Conn's famous nickel-silver 8D, a highly regarded professional-level horn.  (Current production yellow brass 8Ds, made by Conn-Selmer in Eastlake OH, are designated 8DY rather than 28D.  So it goes.)

Meanwhile, I got outsniped not only on that other Yamaha YHR-561, but also on some other candidates for French Horn Rescue that surfaced after my offer on the wrecked mystery horn (that turned out to be Conn 28D) was accepted.  No matter.  Win some.  Lose some.  I buy plenty enough eBay horns as it is.  

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## AwayWeGo

*Plastic Trombones.*




mbender10 said:


> Let me change the instrument topic to trombone, if I may.






-- hotlinked --​
Click here for the particulars. 

Who'd a-thunk ? 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## glypnirsgirl

AwayWeGo said:


> -- hotlinked --​
> Click here for the particulars.
> 
> Who'd a-thunk ?
> 
> -- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​



What will they think of next!!! 

I can't imagine the sound that plastic trombone would make - seems impossible to me that it would be very melodious.

elaine


----------



## AwayWeGo

*The Sound Of The Plastic Trombone.*




glypnirsgirl said:


> I can't imagine the sound that plastic trombone would make - seems impossible to me that it would be very melodious.


Click here for U-Tube video of somebody playing a (purple) plastic trombone. 

Click here for U-Tube video of a guy playing a (partly) wooden trombone. 

Click here for U-Tube video showing construction of a wooden French horn. 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## glypnirsgirl

Interesting - I did not care for the sound of the plastic one, but the wooden had a nice rich tone to me.

elaine


----------



## AwayWeGo

*The Devil Made Me Buy A Piece Of A Horn -- On Spec.*

An eBay seller was offering a new, never installed bell tail, with screw ring already installed on it, for a Holton Farkas Model screwbell horn.

Even though I need 1 of those like a frog needs a hairnet, I noticed it was stuck at the $100 opening bid with just a few minutes to go in the on-line auction.  

I assumed the savvy bidders were keeping their powder dry till the very last seconds, most likely via eSnipe or 1 of its competitors. 

So with 25 seconds left, I put in a bid for $111*.*11, fully expecting other people's automated snipes to run it up to $300 or so when the dust settled after a last-second bidding frenzy -- except that there wasn't any frenzy & no dust.  I ended up buying the thing for $102*.*50, which is exactly 1 bid increment over the opening bid amount.  

There were 2 bidders -- the guy who bid that opening amount of $100 & me.

Who'd a-thunk ? 

If I needed something like that, it would cost me major money.  Not needing it, it's only costing me minor money.  Plus, it'll be here any time the devil makes me buy a semi-ruined horn that only needs a new bell tail. 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## pjrose

Hey Alan,
DD is unlikely to ever play her tenor saxophones again; what's a good way to sell them?  Both are Yamahas.  One is a basic somewhat-beat-up student model but with good sound, and the other a very well-cared-for older intermediate one that was her instructor's till he upgraded.


----------



## AwayWeGo

*eBay All The Way.  Also Craig's List.*




pjrose said:


> DD is unlikely to ever play her tenor saxophones again; what's a good way to sell them?  Both are Yamahas.  One is a basic somewhat-beat-up student model but with good sound, and the other a very well-cared-for older intermediate one that was her instructor's till he upgraded.


Photograph'm & put'm on eBay.  

Try Craig's List 1st -- free, no fees & no commissions.  Plus, no shipping -- Craig's List buyers show up, pay cash, & pick up the items. 

If there are no Craig's List takers after a reasonable period, then go with eBay.  Check their listing of completed items to see what comparable items are going for & set your price accordingly.  Shipping tenor saxophones will be a hassle, but so what?  That's why we have UPS & FedEx Ground.  

Somebody in the next county over has a Yamaha YTS-23 on Craig's List right now.  Click here for that -- while you can (the link might not last long).

Bulletin boards at church & school band rooms & community halls, etc., are also good places to advertise.  

Be realistic about pricing & before long those tenor saxes will find new homes.

Good luck.  

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## pjrose

Thanks.  One or both also has a Selmer mouthpiece...that should add something I hope.


----------



## bunny_foofoo9

*AwayWeGo, do you sell French Horns?*

I have a student that has been playing for 5 years. She is currently playing a cheap Chinese French Horn that is falling apart and desperately needs a new one at a professional level. She has just entered 9th grade and will need it to last through college.

She wants one with a detachable bell. She has shown interest in those colored ones (they are metal, but colored), but I don't know if those are a hunk o'crap. I'm looking to purchase a new one and don't know of if you have any you think would be a good fit that you could part with.


----------



## AwayWeGo

*Sorry -- No Screwbell Horns In Current Inventory.*




bunny_foofoo9 said:


> I have a student that has been playing for 5 years. She is currently playing a cheap Chinese French Horn that is falling apart and desperately needs a new one at a professional level. She has just entered 9th grade and will need it to last through college.
> 
> She wants one with a detachable bell. She has shown interest in those colored ones (they are metal, but colored), but I don't know if those are a hunk o'crap. I'm looking to purchase a new one and don't know of if you have any you think would be a good fit that you could part with.


Don't know if we should be having this semi-commercial dialog out in the open -- but feel free to send me E-Mail via the TUG connection & I'll tell you what I've got.  (No screwbell horns available at the moment, however.) 

Meanwhile, if she's been able to get 5 years out of a cheap Chinese horn, then more power to her.  Some of those are so terrible that the music teachers refer to them as Instrument Shaped Objects, rather than real musical instruments.  Their reputation, generally, is of being hard to play & virtually impossible to repair. 

That said, there is no reason Chinese manufacturing quality control can't improve, & I expect that over time it will improve.  I have heard of a few specialized instrument makers in China -- small custom shops, not assembly line operations -- that turn out decent instruments at competitive prices.  Unfortunately, those are clarinets & not French horns.  So it goes. 

In any case, send me PM or E-Mail via TUG & I will get back to you. 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## AwayWeGo

*Oops -- I Keep On Doing It.*




AwayWeGo said:


> Oops -- I Did It Again.


Won the eBay bidding today for another horn, despite the serious oversupply of horns around here already.  My winning bid was higher than the only other bid by 5¢ -- one nickel.  

I did not bother sniping this time.  I went ahead & bid my maximum right out in the open a few hours after the auction started, not much caring whether I won or lost & expecting that my bid would not stand up.  

The losing bid went in with 6 seconds to go, no doubt via eSnipe or 1 of the competing internet automatic snipe services. 

The horn itself is pretty much a shot in the dark -- Kalison (Italian made), model KAB 10 "Allegri."  I've never played 1, nor even seen 1 up close.  I've noticed their advertisements over the years in _The Horn Call_ (quarterly journal of the International Horn Society).  Kalison, I believe, is better known for making tubas -- not that there's anything wrong with those.  





-- hotlinked --​
Sometimes I bite the bear & sometimes the bear bites me.  Not sure yet how this 1 is going to turn out.  We'll see, eh ? 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## AwayWeGo

*Doofus eBay French Horn.*




AwayWeGo said:


> The horn itself is pretty much a shot in the dark -- Kalison (Italian made), model KAB 10 "Allegri."  I've never played 1, nor even seen 1 up close.  I've noticed their advertisements over the years in _The Horn Call_ (quarterly journal of the International Horn Society).  Kalison, I believe, is better known for making tubas -- not that there's anything wrong with those.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- hotlinked --​
> Sometimes I bite the bear & sometimes the bear bites me.  Not sure yet how this 1 is going to turn out.  We'll see, eh ?


While The Chief Of Staff & I were in Florida on timeshare vacation earlier this month, the horn was being toned up & cleaned & made ready to play by a professional brass instrument technician back home who has fixed lots & lots of instruments for me.  I picked up the horn all squared away & good to go a day or so after we got back.  

The technician remarked about how well the horn is made & designed, which I took as a good sign.  But that made it all the more baffling when I took it out & gave it a try, because I couldn't get the horn to play -- couldn't get it to play _right_, that is. 

After several minutes of failed attempts, I figured it out.  

The trouble is not a defect, but a quirk of this particular make & model of double horn. 

Most single horns are built in the key of F.  Some singles are built in the key of B-flat.  Each kind has its advantages & its limitations.  So about 125 years ago, some crafty instrument makers figured out how to combine all the pluses & minuses of an F horn & a B-flat horn in 1 instrument by building a "double" horn -- press the 4th valve down & it plays in B-flat or leave the 4th valve up & it plays in F.  The thumb-operated 4th valve makes it quick & convenient to switch smoothly while playing, the same as the regular 1-2-3 valves.  

Double horns are the preferred standard for virtually all professional hornists & advanced students & experienced community ensemble horn players.  You start learning on a single horn in grade school & you move up to a double horn in high school (if you stick with it & practice & start to get good). 

A double horn that plays in F with the thumb valve up & in B-flat with the thumb valve down, it is said to "stand" in F.  Standing in F is the conventional & customary arrangement that is completely assumed & taken for granted among horn players, even though a few models of high-end double horns are equipped with reversible thumb-valve mechanisms that can be set to stand in either F or in B-flat, whichever the player prefers.  Most double horns, though, are not reversible.  They simply stand in F, just as practically 100% of horn players would expect. 

As it happens, however, my otherwise outstanding eBay Kalison model KAB 10 "Allegri" double horn not only stands in B-flat, but it's thumb valve is _not_ reversible.  The horn stands in B-flat, period.  Playing it means counteracting 55+ years of habitually playing with the thumb lever up for F & down for B-flat.  I am too old for even giving that a try, so I am now the new owner of a high-end horn that is semi-unplayable unless it turns out that the instrument technician can come up with a modification that will get the 4th valve to operate permanently in reverse. 

So it goes. 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## e.bram

Talking about horns, I went to  the Gotterdammerung at the Met. last night. Lots of horns of all types playing for six hours.


----------



## AwayWeGo

*Oops -- I Keep On Doing It Faster.*




AwayWeGo said:


> Oops -- I Keep On Doing It.


It's beyond addiction.  Now it is an uncontrollable reflex. 

Today on eBay I spied an outstanding Mirafone double horn with both a "buy it now" price and a "make offer" option. 

Mirafone French horns don't show up on eBay all that often, mainly because Mirafone (now spelled Miraphone) is mainly makes tubas & no longer makes French horns.  I have lost eBay auctions for Mirafone double horns maybe 3-4 times since I caught the eBay French horn bug. 

So this morning The Devil made me offer about $300 less than the "buy it now" amount. 

The seller accepted the offer so quick that it was amazing. 

So I bought it -- paid right away via PayPal, so the horn should be showing up on a delivery truck near here before long. 

Lately I'm paying more for French horns than I am for timeshares.

So it goes. 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## GregT

I love your thread -- and makes me glad that I'm not the only one that buys things that I already have in abundance (like timeshares).

Good luck with the next one!

Best,

Greg


----------



## AwayWeGo

*Plastic Trombone In Person & Up Close.*




AwayWeGo said:


> -- hotlinked --​
> Click here for the particulars.


A member of the Lakeland Concert Band had 1 of those at their big concert on January 22, 2012.

He was showing it off & demonstrating it backstage as people were assembling for the performance.  He played it well & it sounded good. 

During the concert, though, he played his regular instrument, a conventional trombone made of traditional yellow brass -- except in 1 number.  For that, a novelty piece by Mayhew Lake titled _The Roosters Lay Eggs In Kansas_, he whipped out his green & black all-plastic trombone. 

(_The Roosters Lay Eggs In Kansas_ is subtitled "John Philip Sousa's Favorite Encore.") 

_Full Disclosure*:*_  I played 2 rehearsals plus the Jan. 22 concert with the Lakeland Band.  We were timeshare vacationing in Kissimmee FL Jan. 7-21.  Before we left, I arranged with the band president to sit in, as I have done before maybe a half-dozen times since we started January vacationing in Florida several years ago.

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## AwayWeGo

*It Came From Outer Space.*




AwayWeGo said:


> Mirafone French horns don't show up on eBay all that often, mainly because Mirafone (now spelled Miraphone) is mainly makes tubas & no longer makes French horns.  I have lost eBay auctions for Mirafone double horns maybe 3-4 times since I caught the eBay French horn bug.
> 
> So this morning The Devil made me offer about $300 less than the "buy it now" amount.
> 
> The seller accepted the offer so quick that it was amazing.
> 
> So I bought it -- paid right away via PayPal, so the horn should be showing up on a delivery truck near here before long.


USPS dropped it off by the front door yesterday afternoon.  

It's an example of creative packing for sure.  No box.  No carton.  The instrument, inside its carrying case, was wrapped in a humongous plastic bag & padded by bubble wrap.  The hard-shell case was taped closed with wide tape over the latches.  Then the whole shebang was encased in layers of large-cell plastic bubble wrap, which was held on with lots & lots of clear packing tape.  It looked like an oversize alien cocoon from a low-budget sci-fi movie.  The address label with USPS payment code was taped onto the cocoon, as were several _Fragile_ stickers.

The horn is all there, & not totally wrecked but still in need of so much professional fixa-fixa-fixa (mostly tubing dents in hard-to-reach places) that this 1 definitely falls into the _French Horn Rescue_ category.  Even in that condition, the horn was about what I expected when I made the offer, so I recorded favorable feedback for the eBay seller.

With luck, I'll be able to get it into the hands of the brass instrument repair technician today or tomorrow.  (No rush.) 

_Update*:*_  I took it over to the horn fixer this afternoon.  

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## AwayWeGo

*Three -- 3 -- Horns Bought (So Far) In 2012, & It's Only Mid-February.*

Somebody on Craig's List was offering a newish Conn 6d that he had to sell right away (i.e., that very day) so he could pay a traffic fine.  

I showed up pronto with cash in hand, made an offer that was accepted, handed over the folding money, & took home the instrument. 





-- hotlinked --
Conn 6D -- Not the 1 I bought off Craig's List, but another 1 just like it.​
The horn is in extremely good condition, but it does have 1 conspicuous dent that should be easy for the repair technician to smooth out invisibly.  

I don't feel I should take the 6D over for fixa-fixa till my eBay Mirafone double horn that's already being working on gets done & paid for & picked up. 

Patience. 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## sfwilshire

I thought of you last week. Our favorite local auction house has started allowing on-line bidding. They had a sax, a trombone and a couple of other horns. The sax went pretty cheap, but my husband said we already had one that nobody played.

We arrived late and didn't get to check out any of the instruments. I really just wanted to look at a Grand Ol' Opry Martin guitar. It looked beautiful on the website, but they sold it just as we walked in the door. I talked to the man who bought it and hoped he'd at least let me look at it, but he didn't offer and I didn't push it. He said he already had it sold.

We bought a farm wagon to put in the yard. Not something I was excited about but my husband was. It is an Owensboro and they closed the factory in 1940, so it has to be at least that old. Some of the wood has been replaced, but I was amazed at the good condition of the "works".

Sheila


----------



## AwayWeGo

*Whoa -- I Finally Sold 1.*

After several unsuccessful tries, I finally got an eBay buyer for my "valvectomy" natural (valveless) horn that started out as a Buescher single French horn in the key of F. 

When I got it, it was missing so many parts of its valve section that it was only fit for hanging on the wall as a decor item or conversion to a no-valve horn -- like the horns played in Mozart's day. 

A local instrument repair technician removed what was left of the valve section, replacing that part with regular tubing.  The resulting "valvectomy" natural horn was fun to play -- for a while.  Then I got tired of it & put it on eBay. 

Now that it's out of here, I can turn my attention to selling off some of the surplus complete French horns around here. 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## e.bram

I went to a concert where they played Brahms's 2nd Piano Concerto.


----------



## AwayWeGo

*"French Horn Rescue" Instrument Out Of Here.  Thanks, eBay.*




AwayWeGo said:


> Now that it's out of here, I can turn my attention to selling off some of the surplus complete French horns around here.


A Yamaha horn that was in pieces when I got it, & that was reassembled & repaired by the local brass instrument technician I regularly rely on, is out of here -- via eBay.  

Next up on eBay (as of next Sunday evening) will be an extremely nice Craig's List Conn 6D in newish condition.  

Following that, the Mirafone double horn (once the 6D goes to a new home), & after the Mirafone the Kalison (Milan) double. 

Even though I am in horn disposal mode now, that doesn't keep me from bidding on more horns.  The idea is to buy'm low & sell'm high.  Sometimes that works, sometimes not.  So it goes. 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## AwayWeGo

*Kalison (Milan) Topsy-Turvy Double Horn Is Now All Squared Away.*




AwayWeGo said:


> A double horn that plays in F with the thumb valve up & in B-flat with the thumb valve down, it is said to "stand" in F.  Standing in F is the conventional & customary arrangement that is completely assumed & taken for granted among horn players, even though a few models of high-end double horns are equipped with reversible thumb-valve mechanisms that can be set to stand in either F or in B-flat, whichever the player prefers.  Most double horns, though, are not reversible.  They simply stand in F, just as practically 100% of horn players would expect.
> 
> As it happens, however, my otherwise outstanding eBay Kalison model KAB 10 "Allegri" double horn not only stands in B-flat, but it's thumb valve is _not_ reversible.  The horn stands in B-flat, period.  Playing it means counteracting 55+ years of habitually playing with the thumb lever up for F & down for B-flat.  I am too old for even giving that a try, so I am now the new owner of a high-end horn that is semi-unplayable unless it turns out that the instrument technician can come up with a modification that will get the 4th valve to operate permanently in reverse.


A (relatively) simple modification by the professional horn fixer converted my eBay Kalison (Milan) double horn to the conventional arrangement of "standing" in the key of F & changing via thumb-operated 4th valve to the key of B-flat. 

From the factory, it stood in B-flat.  Operating its thumb valve changed it to F -- backwards from virtually every professional & student-line double French horn on the market.  Now, as modified, the Kalison works the same as the Yamahas & Conns & Holtons & all the other major kinds of double French horns, including Alexander & Paxman & Amati & Mirafone & I don't know what-all.

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## AwayWeGo

*Conn 6D Is Out Of Here.*




AwayWeGo said:


> Next up on eBay (as of next Sunday evening) will be an extremely nice Craig's List Conn 6D in newish condition.
> 
> Following that, the Mirafone double horn (once the 6D goes to a new home), & after [that] the Mirafone the Kalison (Milan) double.


Conn 6D is gone -- currently on a FedEx truck headed toward delivery to its new home today. 

Sill thinking of offering the Mirafone next, then the Kalison after that. 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## AwayWeGo

*Nice Knowing Which End Of The Horn To Put The Mouthpiece In.*





-- hotlinked --​
-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## AwayWeGo

*How To Play Trombone.*




mbender10 said:


> Let me change the instrument topic to trombone, if I may.


Click here for (brief) video instruction on the basics. 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## AwayWeGo

*Mirafone & Kalison Horns Are Out Of Here.*




AwayWeGo said:


> Conn 6D is gone -- currently on a FedEx truck headed toward delivery to its new home today.
> 
> Sill thinking of offering the Mirafone next, then the Kalison after that.


The Mirafone has been in the hands of its new owner for several weeks. 

The Kalison went out via FedEx this morning, all boxed up with plenty of little plastic-film air pillows & a bunch of styrofoam packing peanuts. 

Only surplus instruments currently around here that are ready for Craig's List or eBay are a 1920s Couesnon (Paris) trumpet & an Olds Ambassador trombone.

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## pedro47

You are collecting horns like I loved to collect Nikon cameras.


----------



## AwayWeGo

*You Are Correct, Sir.*




pedro47 said:


> You are collecting horns like I loved to collect Nikon cameras.


Too many great horns around here for all of'm to be keepers (even though I have no plans at present for selling off any more horns) . . . 

Lawson-modified Alexander 103
eBay "French horn rescue" Conn 28D (Elkhart)
Lawson 804
eBay Yamaha YHR-666N
eBay Yamaha YHR-321​
Plus 1 oddball museum piece -- a pristine Jos. Lidl (Brno) compensating double horn (eBay), patterned after a 1920s design by Karl Lehmann (Berlin)*:*





-- hotlinked --​
As if those weren't plenty more than enough, I also have 1 standard, plain-vanilla C.G. Conn single horn in F (eBay) that's rarely used except at Fairfax Band instrument "petting zoo" events for letting kids get hands-on introduction to band instruments, with the idea in mind that they might like to start playing in school bands themselves.

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## AwayWeGo

*Where Are The Saxophones ?*




pjrose said:


> DD is unlikely to ever play her tenor saxophones again; what's a good way to sell them?  Both are Yamahas.  One is a basic somewhat-beat-up student model but with good sound, and the other a very well-cared-for older intermediate one that was her instructor's till he upgraded.


Did your DD's Yamaha tenor saxophones find new homes ?  

(It's none of my business -- I'm just curious.) 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## AwayWeGo

*Another Satisfied eBay Purchaser.*




AwayWeGo said:


> The Kalison went out via FedEx this morning, all boxed up with plenty of little plastic-film air pillows & a bunch of styrofoam packing peanuts.


eBay buyer called up to say how much he likes the Kalison horn. 

When I picked up the phone & that's who was calling, I feared he was calling up to complain.  It was a welcome surprise to hear him say positive things.  

No buyer feedback yet, so I won't regard the matter as _Case Closed_ till that happens.

Meanwhile, I have some eSnipe bids on more eBay horns all set for the closing seconds.  Not only that, I am thinking about selling off my oddball museum piece -- pristine Jos. Lidl (Brno) compensating double horn patterned after a 1920s design by Karl Lehmann (Berlin).

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## AwayWeGo

*Case Closed.  New Case Opened.*




AwayWeGo said:


> No buyer feedback yet, so I won't regard the matter as _Case Closed_ till that happens.


Favorable feedback was recorded, so now it's official that the Kalison buyer is satisfied & I can quit worrying about it. 

Meanwhile, The Devil has focused my attention on an outstanding & unusual Yamaha horn on eBay.  

I would gladly have swapped the Kalison & the Mirafone, both of'm, straight up for that 1 Yamaha.  Accordingly, I have set up a secret eSnipe bid for the Yamaha in an amount approximately equal to the eBay take from those 2 others. 

I'll be on pins & needles for the next 4 days. 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## AwayWeGo

*Case Is Still Closed.*




AwayWeGo said:


> I'll be on pins & needles for the next 4 days.


As it happens, I didn't have to wait 4 days. 

With 24 hours to go, the bidding is already $500 over my eSnipe maximum & the reserve hasn't been met. 

Too rich for my blood. 

Fortunately for me, I have plenty of keepers already -- including 2 Yamahas --  without foolishly bidding up 1 more Yamaha just because it's interesting & unusual. 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## wackymother

I love this thread. And I think I love your French horn tech. He's the key to your empire!


----------



## AwayWeGo

*You Typed A Mouthful.*




wackymother said:


> I love your French horn tech. He's the key to your empire!


That's about the size of it.  

Without him, I would be in deep sludge with lots of these eBay specials.  Not only that, French Horn Rescue would be out of the question. 

The guy is in his 80s, so nobody knows how long he'll keep on modifying & unsmashing & de-dentifying people's trumpets & cornets & flugelhorns & baritones & euphoniums & French horns & bugles & trombones & tubas, etc. 

As far as flipping horns on eBay & trumpets, etc., on Craig's List, I think I caught on early that what I'm really doing is buying as much of my horn fixer's craftork as I can & reselling that. 

His rates are reasonable because he's his own boss & works out of his own home workshop -- i.e., low overhead.  He works on brasses only -- no reeds or woodwinds, not even silvery flutes or brassy saxophones.

He told a fun story on himself.  He said he was at some outdoor event where he saw a regular customer (not me -- some other regular customer).  The customer saw him too, but pretending that he didn't know that the horn fixer had seen him, the customer said to his companion (intending to be overheard by the horn fixer while acting like he didn't know the horn fixer was there), "Oh, look, there's Bob, the horn fixer, right over there.  He's a butcher but he works cheap." 

"So," the horn fixer said, "I raised my rates."

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## AwayWeGo

*Spreading The Wealth.*

The Devil not only makes me bid on select eBay horns, old Beelzebub also now & then moves me to alert my horn playing friends to interesting & attractive horns by occasionally sending them internet links to some of the horn offerings on eBay & Craig's List. 

Usually nothing much happens.  My French horn buddies, some of'm, click the links & look at the pictures & that's about it. 

Most recently, however, 1 of the main Fairfax Band hornists followed up a Craig's List link, checked out the pro-level horn being offered, & ended up not only buying it but thanking me for putting him on to it. 

He declares the horn superb -- just what he'd been been looking for & had been unable to find, an iconic instrument from the maker's long-gone golden age.  (Horns of that brand & model are still being made, but in a different workshop under different corporate parenthood, so new ones are not the same even though they're still pretty good.)

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## Sheera

Hi Alan,
Is your guy local? I'm also from McLean and I bought a trombone on ebay today. I got it from quinn the eskimo; any experience wirh him?


----------



## AwayWeGo

*Local Is As Local Does.*




Sheera said:


> Is your guy local? I'm also from McLean and I bought a trombone on ebay today. I got it from quinn the eskimo; any experience wirh him?


Horn fixer is not far from here -- just over in Falls Church VA.  Send me E-Mail (not Private Message) if you want name & phone & address.

quinntheeskimo sells lots of musical instruments via eBay -- has 4 French horns in his eBay "store" right now.  I'm sure I must have placed bids on his items at various times, but I don't know for sure whether I've won any of hie eBay auctions. 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## rhonda

Sheera said:


> quinn the eskimo


Wow, the Mighty Quinn!  What a timewarp to my pre-teens.  I *loved* that song and now can't get it out of my head ... "when Quinn the Eskimo gets here, everybody's gonna jump for joy!"


----------



## AwayWeGo

*Oddball Museum Piece Is Out Of Here.*




AwayWeGo said:


> I am thinking about selling off my oddball museum piece -- pristine Jos. Lidl (Brno) compensating double horn patterned after a 1920s design by Karl Lehmann (Berlin).


Last week somebody in France put a well-preserved Carl Lehmann (Hamburg) compensating double horn on eBay. 

Recognizing an opportunity, I quickly wrote up my pristine Lehmann-style Jos. Lidl (Brno) compensating double horn, used the photos I had ready & waiting, & _-- WHAP ! --_ got my Jos. Lidl horn into the eBay horn listings right next to the authentic Carl Lehmann. 

In the process I learned it's Carl Lehmann (not Karl), & that his instrument-making workshop was in Hamburg (not Berlin).  Who knew ? 

However that may be, the Josef Lidl horn attracted a bidder -- it only takes 1 -- & is already out of here, headed to its new owner via Fed Ex Ground. 

That leaves me with "only" six _-- 6 --_ French horns, 2 Yamahas, 2 Conns, 1 Lawson, & 1 Alexander. 

The devil still makes me bid on more eBay horns, mostly losing bids, but occasionally lightning will strike & I'll buy another lowball horn.  I have 1 eSnipe set up for a semi-wrecked instrument that will be another candidate for French Horn Rescue in the unlikely event I don't get outsniped. 

Is this a great country or what ? 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## AwayWeGo

*Taking A Chance In Las Vegas.*

We're timesharing this week -- 2BR Grandview At Las Vegas unit via straight-points exchange. 

After breakfast Sunday morning, The Devil made me check musical instruments in the Las Vegas section of Craig's List.  Somebody only 5 miles or so from the Grandview was offering an OK-looking Conn 6D for more than I wanted to pay.  But nothing ventured nothing gained, so I sent an E-Mail message saying I was interested & asking when would be a convenient time to go see the horn. 

Before long, the Craig's List person called, giving directions & saying to come right over.  I did.  The horn was OK -- not as good as the most recent prior Craig's List Conn 6D I bought back home, but still not bad. 

I made an offer.  The seller counteroffered.  I counter-countered.  After the seller got me to go just $5 higher than what I thought was my highest & best price, the deal was struck.  

My wallet is now lighter & I am facing the logistical problem of how to get a Conn 6D French horn (in hardshell carrying case) home via the friendly skies day after tomorrow.  I am all but certain the thing won't fit in any airplane overhead storage bin & I am dead certain it won't fit beneath the seat in front of me.  The question is whether to check the thing at the outset, or gamble that I can take it on board, gate-checking it if it can't be stowed on board. 

Some vacationers come to Las Vegas & take a chance at the gaming tables.  I come to Las Vegas & take a chance on a Craig's List French horn.  (Nobody's perfect.)

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## Passepartout

DW has a Marcus Bonna backpack case for her Paxman w/ removable bell. It fits the overhead fine, but only sideways. Too tall (long) to fit straight in.

Sounds like a good, fun new project and the odds are better than 21. Probably not as good as craps, but who knows?

Jim


----------



## AwayWeGo

*Flying French Horn.*




AwayWeGo said:


> I am facing the logistical problem of how to get a Conn 6D French horn (in hardshell carrying case) home via the friendly skies day after tomorrow.  I am all but certain the thing won't fit in any airplane overhead storage bin & I am dead certain it won't fit beneath the seat in front of me.  The question is whether to check the thing at the outset, or gamble that I can take it on board, gate-checking it if it can't be stowed on board.


After a fun timeshare week in Las Vegas, The Chief Of Staff & I got home this evening with all our stuff, including the Conn 6D purchased from a Craig's List seller who lives about 6 minutes from the timeshare. 

The reason I didn't want to check the horn as baggage is that it's so easy for a horn to sustain damage, even locked inside its hardshell case, if it gets slammed around the way checked suitcases sometimes do on the airlines.

A flight attendant recognized by the form of the case what I was carrying with me as I moved down the aisle.  I promised not to play it on board the plane.  

In its carrying case, the horn would not fit in any overhead compartment.  It mostly fit under the middle seat, but not completely & not under the aisle seat.  The wide part of the case, housing the flaring bell of the horn, protruded into the floor space right behind the back of the seat in front of us -- no problem during the 1st leg of the trip home because the plane was less than half full & The Chief Of Staff & I had an empty middle seat between us.  The plane was chock full on the (shorter) 2nd leg of the trip.  The Chief Of Staff volunteered to take the middle seat even though the wide part of the horn case took up most of the floor space in front of her, not leaving much room for her feet.  She's a good sport & did not complain. 

I remarked to a different flight attendant as we were leaving that I bet the 6D I had with me was the only French horn that was on the plane all day, adding that I was surprised I got away with bringing it on board.  

The flight attendant said that if she had noticed the horn when I was carrying it onto the aircraft, I would not have got away with it.

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## Passepartout

We also had difficulty with DW's horn and a Delta Connection coming home last night. It fit fine in the Airbuses outbound, then we saw the little CRJ on the first leg coming home. A flight attendant strapped the horn into it's own seat (at no expense to us). The second leg was an Embraer 170. Still small and overbooked. We couldn't even sit together. The horn DID fit in a coach overhead. I had a bulkhead seat, so no underseat storage ahead of me. I was able to put my carry on stuff in the 1st class closet. It was a PITA non-pleasure trip and we are glad to be home none the worse for wear.


----------



## AwayWeGo

*Fixa-Fixa-Fixa.*




AwayWeGo said:


> The horn was OK -- not as good as the most recent prior Craig's List Conn 6D I bought back home, but still not bad.


The Las Vegas Conn 6D is now in the hands of a professional brass instrument repair technician for minor dent work, unsticking 1 stuck slide, & general going over. 

When the work is done, the 6D will be ready for photos to go on Craig's List here, & then eBay if there are no Craig's List takers within a reasonable time. 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## AwayWeGo

*Goodbye, Las Vegas Craig's List.  Hello, Washington DC Craig's List.*




AwayWeGo said:


> Las Vegas Conn 6D is now in the hands of a professional brass instrument repair technician for minor dent work, unsticking 1 stuck slide, & general going over.
> 
> When the work is done, the 6D will be ready for photos to go on Craig's List here, & then eBay if there are no Craig's List takers within a reasonable time.


Picked up undented & unstuck Las Vegas Conn 6D from the horn fixer this morning.  Brought it home & photographed it & put it on Craig's List for major money -- would give the link for the ad so you can see how outstanding the horn looks, except that would get me crossways with the TUG-BBS _No Advertising_ rule.  

(Far as I know, it's not just no timeshare advertising, it's no advertising, period.  So it goes.)

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## AwayWeGo

*A Nice Horn Now In The Hands Of A Promising Young Player.*




AwayWeGo said:


> Picked up undented & unstuck Las Vegas Conn 6D from the horn fixer this morning.  Brought it home & photographed it & put it on Craig's List


Craig's List Las Vegas Conn 6D is out of here, gone -- as in sold this evening.  

It was a good deal for the person who sold it to me in Las Vegas, a good deal for the local horn fixer, a good deal for the person who bought it from me, & a good deal for me -- a win-win-win-win proposition. 

Is this a great country or what ? 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## AwayWeGo

*Is There An Echo In Here ?*




AwayWeGo said:


> Las Vegas Conn 6D is now in the hands of a professional brass instrument repair technician for minor dent work, unsticking 1 stuck slide, & general going over.
> 
> When the work is done, the 6D will be ready for photos to go on Craig's List here, & then eBay if there are no Craig's List takers within a reasonable time.


The Devil today made me buy a local Craig's List Conn 6D clone made by F.E. Olds (California).

Olds 6D clone is now in the hands of a professional brass instrument repair technician for minor dent work, unsticking 1 stuck slide, & general going over. 

When the work is done, the 6D clone will be ready for photos to go on Craig's List locally, & then eBay if there are no Craig's List takers within a reasonable time.

Only other problem is the original Olds carrying case, which has taken major gas at some point in the past.  Half of the widest part of the case is covered in wood-tone contact paper.  I'm not sure what, if anything, is under that. 

When the horn comes back from repairs, I'll see whether I can find a practical way to improve the appearance & protective function of the case without using too much duct tape.

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## AwayWeGo

*Freeb eBay Listings.*




T_R_Oglodyte said:


> June 8: 20-cent listing day.
> 
> I know, 20-cents instead of 10-cents, but it's just a measly dime.


Now eBay listings in most categories are _el freebo_ -- up to 50 per month. 

Very smart of eBay.  Eliminating the listing fees encourages people to list more stuff for sale on eBay.  Then when it sells (if it sells), eBay snags more sales commissions in the form of Final Value Fees.  Not only that, eBay now gets a piece of the action on shipping charges. 

So it goes. 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## AwayWeGo

*Olds Clone Of Conn 6D Is Back From The Shop -- Plays Great.*




AwayWeGo said:


> When the horn comes back from repairs, I'll see whether I can find a practical way to improve the appearance & protective function of the case without using too much duct tape.


Carrying case is a mess -- nothing was under the contact paper & masking tape but a major serious hole.  

Fixable ?  

Maybe -- but I'm not counting on it.  Besides, any possible fix I can imagine is going to be unsightly. 

There are 2-3 empty horn cases down in the basement.  Maybe 1 of those will work, I don't know.  We'll see. 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## AwayWeGo

*Generic Horn Case Fits Fine.*




AwayWeGo said:


> There are 2-3 empty horn cases down in the basement.  Maybe 1 of those will work, I don't know.  We'll see.


The Olds 6D clone does not fit into 2 out of the 3 extra horn cases down in the basement.

Fortunately, it fits fine in the 3rd (generic) horn case that was on hand down there. 

I think of hard-shell horn cases as pretty much generic items, so it was surprising that neither a C.G. Conn nor a Yamaha horn case would work for the Olds.  The cases & the horn are all pretty much standard items.

Who'd a-thunk ?

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## AwayWeGo

*Suspicion Reconfirmed.*



AwayWeGo said:


> Yamaha YHR-666 & YHR-666N are discontinued models, manufactured 1981-1985 only.  (YHR-666 is made of conventional yellow "cartridge" brass.  YHR-666N is made of a silver-colored alloy known variously as nickel silver & German silver, which contains zero actual silver -- basically it's just a whitish brass.)  I think I figured out why the Yamaha brain trust decided to quit making them.  It could have gone something like this:  One day, a product manager rushes into the Yamaha executive suite with some devastating news.  "Sir, we have a big problem with our French horn line."
> 
> "Oh?" says the Yamaha bigwig.  "What kind of problem?"
> 
> "Well, sir, it turns out our intermediate-grade student step-up model horn plays better, sounds better, & has better intonation than our top-line professional model horn.  What are we going to do?"
> 
> "Only 1 thing we _can_ do."
> 
> "What's that, sir?"
> 
> "Immediately discontinue our intermediate-grade student step-up model horn.  Got that?"
> 
> "Yes, sir."


Somebody in France is offering a rare Yamaha YHR-666N like mine on eBay.  

Although I arrived at my assessment of the horn independently, the language of the French eBay seller's description comes close to mine.  The French seller's description says *. . .* 

legend or reality?

This 666 N model was put into production for five years only
and then was stopped by the Yamaha Firm because its perfect quality
was a real problem for the other more expensive Yamaha models.

***

This professional Model is one of the most popular among the Yamaha Best Sellers.
It contributed to build up the Yamaha Fame :
the large Bell, widely opened, is producing rich, powerful and warm sounds.
This 666 N has a strong projection as well.
This instrument is easy to play in the high notes 
with a large sound in the low notes.
It has a very round and colorful sound, 
and is very homogeneous from the deep to high notes.
Its sound is similar to the Conn 8 d models
(which were used to play the Holliwood Movies Sounds Tracks).
but much more easy to play... with a  precise rightness.​
Who'd a-thunk ?

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## AwayWeGo

*French Horn Rescue -- The Continuing Saga.*




AwayWeGo said:


> An eBay seller was offering a new, never installed bell tail, with screw ring already installed on it, for a Holton Farkas Model screwbell horn.
> 
> Even though I need 1 of those like a frog needs a hairnet, I noticed it was stuck at the $100 opening bid with just a few minutes to go in the on-line auction.
> 
> I assumed the savvy bidders were keeping their powder dry till the very last seconds, most likely via eSnipe or 1 of its competitors.
> 
> So with 25 seconds left, I put in a bid for $111*.*11, fully expecting other people's automated snipes to run it up to $300 or so when the dust settled after a last-second bidding frenzy -- except that there wasn't any frenzy & no dust.  I ended up buying the thing for $102*.*50, which is exactly 1 bid increment over the opening bid amount.
> 
> There were 2 bidders -- the guy who bid that opening amount of $100 & me.
> 
> Who'd a-thunk ?
> 
> If I needed something like that, it would cost me major money.  Not needing it, it's only costing me minor money.  Plus, it'll be here any time the devil makes me buy a semi-ruined horn that only needs a new bell tail.


It is clear that having a new Holton bell tail & OK Holton bell flare on hand influenced my bidding recently on a Holton H-179 fixed-bell double horn that's dented at the bell throat & slightly torn a few places round the edge of the flare.  (One torn spot at the edge was crudely patched.)  

I sniped in a winning lowball bid, received the horn via FedEx Ground, noodled around on it to judge its playing qualities (very good), & took it -- along with the eBay bell tail & bell flare -- over to an experienced professional brass instrument technician.

Technician said it will be less work (hence less expensive) to install the new bell tail on the old horn (screw ring & all) than to cut off the horn's existing fixed flare, then move the screw ring off the new bell tail onto the OK bell tail of the complete horn, which would make the separate eBay detachable bell flare usable on the screw-ring converted horn.  

Either way, the complete horn with the damaged fixed bell flare comes back as a complete horn with undamaged screw bell, a desirable feature in professional-model French horns like Holton H-179.   The brass instrument technician said the repaired horn will be ready when The Chief Of Staff & I get back from our January timeshare vacation in Florida. 

Meanwhile, I ordered an eBay _Buy It Now_ flat carrying case specially made for a screw bell horn, which should fit the screwbell-converted horn after the parts transplant & other work are completed.  (One benefit of screwbell horns is the ability to tote them around in attaché-style carrying cases, rather than klunky hardshell cases oddly bulged to accommodate the wide flares of fixed bell horns.)

I expect to flip the finished product rather than add it to the oversupply of keepers around here.  But if it plays as well in top shape as it did in its unrepaired condition, who knows ?

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## AwayWeGo

*Nice Horn Now In The Hands Of A Music Major Getting Back Into Playing Horn.*




AwayWeGo said:


> When the work is done, the 6D clone will be ready for photos to go on Craig's List locally, & then eBay if there are no Craig's List takers within a reasonable time.


No takers on Craig's List or eBay despite several week-long listings.  (So it goes.) 

No problem, because Craig's List came through the 2nd time round. 

As of today, the Conn 6D clone by F.E. Olds & Son is in the hands of a public school music teacher who played horn all through high school & college without ever owning a horn.  She wanted a decent instrument of her own so she could get back into horn playing.  Now she's got 1. 

Is this a great country or what ? 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## AwayWeGo

*"French Horn Rescue" Conn 28D Is Out Of Here.*




AwayWeGo said:


> The Elkhart & "N" designations lead me to believe it's a Conn 28D, the yellow brass equivalent of Conn's famous nickel-silver 8D, a highly regarded professional-level horn.


It _is_ a 28D.  

Not only that, the professional brass instrument technician I took it to got it unsmashed & undented & in fabulous condition -- playing condition, I mean, not just appearance.  

I enjoyed playing the 28D for several months before deciding to let it go.  (I can't keep all the potential keepers.)  So I photographed it & put it on eBay, where it was promptly snapped up.  

As of today, it's on its way via FedEx Ground to its new owner in the USA heartland. 

That leaves me with a manageable total of five _-- 5 --_ horns, plus 1 in the shop.  

The current population is Yamaha YHR-666N, Yamaha YHR-321, Lawson 804, Alexander 103, & 1 very basic Conn single horn in F.  The horn at the shop is a _French Horn Rescue_ Holton H-179. 

Is this a great country or what ?

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## AwayWeGo

*Timeshare French Horn.*

Right now The Chief Of Staff & I are enjoying our traditional after-Christmas Florida timeshare vacation.  As it happens, this is the 2nd consecutive out-of-town vacation from which I'll be going home with 1 horn more than I brought with me.

Last fall I snagged a nice Craig's List Conn 6D in Las Vegas.

Yesterday I picked up an eBay Yamaha YHR-322 in Orlando.

It was just luck that I was here when the eBay auction ended.  I was not paying attention to the seller's location when I sent in the bid. By being here I was able to pick up the horn & pay for it in person. Otherwise the seller would have boxed up the horn & sent it to me at home.

I had intended to play my eBay YHR-666N at Lakeland Band rehearsal last night. Instead, I played the freshly acquired eBay YHR-322, a 4-valve Bb single horn (very much like YHR-321 but a newer design).

I was into French Horn Divestment for a while there -- got the total down to just 5.  Now I'm back up to 7, but with the intention of selling off a couple of'm, most likely my Craig's List Yamaha YHR-321 & my eBay Holton H-179 that's currently in the hands of a professional brass instrument technician for repairs & screwbell modification.

The Chief Of Staff is exceedingly tolerant.  She's an outstanding good sport about my French horn habit.

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## wackymother

Good work on picking up the new horn yourself. I'm going to start checking out Craig's List for places we visit on vacation!

Seems to me like you have a great hobby, buying and selling horns that you play yourself, and you enjoy the discovery of getting to know each one. Love to hear these stories.


----------



## AwayWeGo

*eBay While Away.*




wackymother said:


> Good work on picking up the new horn yourself. I'm going to start checking out Craig's List for places we visit on vacation!
> 
> Seems to me like you have a great hobby, buying and selling horns that you play yourself, and you enjoy the discovery of getting to know each one. Love to hear these stories.


I am pretty sure I am the only man at any timeshare resort anywhere in & around Orlando FL right now who has two _-- 2 --_ Yamaha French horns with him right here in the timeshare unit -- 1 brought from home + 1 picked up locally.

Getting the Yamaha YHR-322 home by car next week will be easier than flying home from Las Vegas last fall with a Craig's List Conn 6D.

The guy who sold the YHR-322 is an eBay rookie who works for a big pawn shop that's branching out into eBay.  He had zero feedback till I recorded favorable feedback for him for the YHR-622.  Now he has his feet wet with a feedback score of 1 -- 100% positive. 

After the sale, the seller sent me a text message apologizing for leaving the shop sticker on the horn & asking me to send him the inventory number off that tag, which he said he needed & had forgotten to write down.  I did, noting in the process that my winning eBay bid was $99 less than the shop's sticker price for the horn.  

By picking up the horn & paying in person, I saved $50 in shopping costs.  The seller saved PayPal remittance fees, not to mention not having to bother with packing & shipping a bulky, odd-shaped object.  Plus, eBay now collects a percentage of sellers' shipping charges, an expense the YHR-322 seller avoided by handing over the horn in person.

A penny saved is a penny earned. 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## wackymother

Someday I want to go to a pawn shop. But I want it to be like the pawn shop on Pawn Stars, not like the pawn shop on Hardcore Pawn.


----------



## AwayWeGo

*What's A Nice Horn Like This Doing In A Shop Like That ?*




wackymother said:


> Someday I want to go to a pawn shop. But I want it to be like the pawn shop on Pawn Stars, not like the pawn shop on Hardcore Pawn.


I got the impression from the very nice & polite guy who delivered the eBay French horn that the pawn shop where he works is more like Hardcore Pawn.

Then again, who takes classy instruments like French horns to the down & dirty pawn shops ?

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## gnorth16

wackymother said:


> Someday I want to go to a pawn shop. But I want it to be like the pawn shop on Pawn Stars, not like the pawn shop on Hardcore Pawn.



Pawn stars in Vegas was tacky and had very few quality items.  I won about $500 and was going to blow it on something frivolous, but ended up leaving with nothing.  My cousin lives in a suburb around Detroit and was at Hardcore Pawn.  More items and a larger store... When I go to visit, I will have to check it out.  Both places flog their TV junk and like to display their "stardome".   Like all reality TV shows, they are played up for the viewers sake....(but don't tell anyone I watch them both on occasion:ignore:!!!)


----------



## AwayWeGo

*Reality Show Reality Is Not Necessarily Real World Reality.*




gnorth16 said:


> Pawn stars in Vegas was tacky and had very few quality items.


The shop featured on Pawn Stars has become a Las Vegas tourist attraction.  People line up outside waiting to get in, even though the Old Man & Rick & Big Hoss & Chumlee are not on site except when show episodes are being shot.

I toyed with the idea of taking that Craig's List horn I bought in Las Vegas over to the Pawn Stars shop, to see whether I could make a little something from it while I was still in town.  They were even going to be shooting a TV episode 1 morning. 

As it happened, I did not go to the pawn shop with the horn -- just brought it home on the plane.  The rest is history. 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## hvsteve1

AwayWeGo, you sound kind of former military.  Did you play your horn with any military bands, or just the community bands you mention?


----------



## ronandjoan

AwayWeGo said:


> It _is_
> Is this a great country or what ?
> 
> -- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​



Loved this whole Thread and also loved hearing about some of your recent French Horn escapades when we met in Orlando last Monday!


----------



## AwayWeGo

*1966-1968.*




hvsteve1 said:


> AwayWeGo, you sound kind of former military.  Did you play your horn with any military bands, or just the community bands you mention?


75th Army Band, Ft. Belvoir VA, 1966.

214th Army Band, Ft. Richardson AK, 1967-68.

Click here for an informative web site where current & former members of military bands can list themselves & their instruments & their dates of service. 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virignia, USA.​


----------



## hvsteve1

Thanks for the reply.  That web site is very usefull.

I'm Chairman of the U.S.A. branch of the International Military Music Society.  Our members include current and former military musicians as well as civilian band members, directors, composers and band fans.  One of our Vice-Presidents is former Commandant of the U.S. Army Field Band and the other VP is currently band director at one of the service academies.  Our website, for anyone interested, is www.immsusa.org


----------



## AwayWeGo

hvsteve1 said:


> I'm Chairman of the U.S.A. branch of the International Military Music Society.  Our members include current and former military musicians as well as civilian band members, directors, composers and band fans.  One of our Vice-Presidents is former Commandant of the U.S. Army Field Band and the other VP is currently band director at one of the service academies.  Our website, for anyone interested, is www.immsusa.org


Thanks for the link. 

Does membership require annual dues or just a 1-time payment ? 

BTW, the Fairfax Band music director is a former executive officer & deputy commander of the United States Air Force Band, Washington DC.

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virignia, USA.​


----------



## AwayWeGo

*Wonderful Socializing With TUG Friends Again In Orlando.*




ronandjoan said:


> Loved this whole Thread and also loved hearing about some of your recent French Horn escapades when we met in Orlando last Monday!


That Orlando meet-up was a highlight of our week.  

Seemed like the party just got going when I had to rush off to meet the Yamaha YHR-322 eBay French horn guy.

Right after that, I hit the highway to Lakeland -- got there in time for band practice.  (Skipped rehearsal the following week because of being on grandfather duty at Universal Studios & Islands Of Adventure.) 

Already looking forward to another Golden Corral Orlando TUG meet-up in January 2014. 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virignia, USA.​


----------



## AwayWeGo

*French Horn Rescue.*




AwayWeGo said:


> Technician said it will be less work (hence less expensive) to install the new bell tail on the old horn (screw ring & all) than to cut off the horn's existing fixed flare, then move the screw ring off the new bell tail onto the OK bell tail of the complete horn, which would make the separate eBay detachable bell flare usable on the screw-ring converted horn.
> 
> Either way, the complete horn with the damaged fixed bell flare comes back as a complete horn with undamaged screw bell, a desirable feature in professional-model French horns like Holton H-179.   The brass instrument technician said the repaired horn will be ready when The Chief Of Staff & I get back from our January timeshare vacation in Florida.


Picked up repaired & screwbell-converted Holton H-179 from instrument repair technician yesterday -- another _French Horn Rescue_ success story. 

Dropped off eBay Yamaha YHR-322 while I was there to get minor dents & dings professionally smoothed out.  (Dents & dings are too few & too minor for the YHR-322 to qualify as a _French Horn Rescue_ instrument.)

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virignia, USA.​


----------



## hvsteve1

AwayWeGo said:


> Thanks for the link.
> 
> Does membership require annual dues or just a 1-time payment ?
> 
> BTW, the Fairfax Band music director is a former executive officer & deputy commander of the United States Air Force Band, Washington DC.
> 
> -- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virignia, USA.​



Dues are $35 per year and get you six great magazines per year which pretty much eat up all the dues.  Three are The Journal of American Military Bands and the others issues of Band International from the International Society and airmailed from the U.K.  Membership also gets you in touch with some great band people arund the country.  Thanks for the heads up on the Fairfax Band.


----------



## wackymother

Alan, a friend just showed me this link and I thought of you right away! Be sure to check out the video at the bottom, showing one of them in action.

http://twentytwowords.com/2013/02/2...ss-instruments-pictures-video/#comment-481714


----------



## AwayWeGo

*Love It.  Thanks.*




wackymother said:


> Alan, a friend just showed me this link and I thought of you right away! Be sure to check out the video at the bottom, showing one of them in action.
> 
> http://twentytwowords.com/2013/02/2...ss-instruments-pictures-video/#comment-481714


Creative way to recycle trumpets & horns, etc. 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## AwayWeGo

*French Horn Build-Up.*

After respectable progress in selling off some of the surplus, I once again have too many horns around here. 

Instead of 1 extra Yamaha YHR-321, I now have 2 of those, both surplus (because I snagged an outstanding YHR-322 -- Yamaha's equivalent newer model -- via eBay).  

My _French Horn Rescue_ Holton H-179 (screwbell converted) is not quite ready to go on eBay.  Horn is ready, but the generic carrying case, which is being modified to fit the Holton, is not completely ready. 

As if those weren't enough, I now have another _French Horn Rescue_ candidate, an Elkhart Conn 8D in rough condition.  The Chief Of Staff bought it for me last weekend at Pecan Park Flea Market while the old man was eyeballing classic cars on Amelia Island, near Jacksonville FL.

The Elkhart 8D is now in the hands of a professional brass instrument repair technician for _fixa-fixa-fixa_ (mostly dent work, including smoothing out some serious creases at the bell throat, which already has 2 small patches). 

The 8D carrying case is also rough.  I'm going to rehab that myself. 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## AwayWeGo

*The Surplus Grows.*




AwayWeGo said:


> I once again have too many horns around here.


Could not pass up today a Craig's List Conn 6D clone by Lorenzo Sansone, New York. 

I always thought Sansone horns were "stencil" instruments, made by other manufacturers (e.g., Conn, Orsi, etc.) but marked & engraved Lorenzo Sansone, New York. 

The linked article says Sansone's later horns were made in his own shop in New York City.  That's believable, judging by the example I brought home today.  It's extremely well made, differing not at all in basic design from Conn 6D (which it closely resembles), but with slight differences in a number of subtle, high-quality ways that are hard to describe but readily apparent to French horn & brass instrument buffs.

Upscale Conn 6D is a good capsule description of this latest acquisition, which is in extremely well preserved original condition (not overhauled or rebuilt).

Who'd a-thunk ?

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## AwayWeGo

*Fixa-Fixa & More Fixa.*




AwayWeGo said:


> I now have another _French Horn Rescue_ candidate, an Elkhart Conn 8D in rough condition.  The Chief Of Staff bought it for me last weekend at Pecan Park Flea Market while the old man was eyeballing classic cars on Amelia Island, near Jacksonville FL.
> 
> The Elkhart 8D is now in the hands of a professional brass instrument repair technician for _fixa-fixa-fixa_ (mostly dent work, including smoothing out some serious creases at the bell throat, which already has 2 small patches).
> 
> The 8D carrying case is also rough.  I'm going to rehab that myself.


Flea market Conn 8D is back from repairs & playable.  It's the horn I used at brass quintet rehearsal last week, & that I'll use again today in rehearsal with a different brass quintet.  

Carrying case still needs work.  I fastened some loose hinges & bought a new latch, but have not yet installed that to replace the missing OEM latch.  Plus, it needs a new handle.  I think I have a replacement on hand, though I'm not exactly sure where.  

I'm leaning toward flipping the horn once I complete repairs to the carrying case, but I have not decided for sure nor taken any pictures.  No rush. 

Meanwhile, my Craig's List Conn 6D clone by Lorenzo Sansone (New York) is now in the hands of the brass instrument repair technician.  

With that, I'm all caught up.  No more horns waiting in the wings -- but that could change.  Who knows ?

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## AwayWeGo

*Horn Case Repair Delayed Indefinitely.*




AwayWeGo said:


> Carrying case still needs work.  I fastened some loose hinges & bought a new latch, but have not yet installed that to replace the missing OEM latch.  Plus, it needs a new handle.  I think I have a replacement on hand, though I'm not exactly sure where.


Did not find replacement handle for carrying case but remembered I have an extra horn-shaped carrying case ready to go down in the basement. 

Fortunately the "rescue" Elkhart Conn 8D fits OK in the extra case, so I'm using that case for the "rescue" 8D instead of completing rehab on the Conn case.

If another horn case is needed some time in the future (which is not out of the question), then maybe that will be an appropriate time to finish work on the Conn horn case.

Waste not, want not. 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## AwayWeGo

*Lorenzo Sansone 6D Clone Now Believed To Be Made By York Band Instruments.*




AwayWeGo said:


> I always thought Sansone horns were "stencil" instruments, made by other manufacturers (e.g., Conn, Orsi, etc.) but marked & engraved Lorenzo Sansone, New York.
> 
> The linked article says Sansone's later horns were made in his own shop in New York City.  That's believable, judging by the example I brought home today.  It's extremely well made, differing not at all in basic design from Conn 6D (which it closely resembles), but with slight differences in a number of subtle, high-quality ways that are hard to describe but readily apparent to French horn & brass instrument buffs.


The Devil made me buy another non-Conn clone of Conn 6D -- an eBay special needing fixa-fixa-fixa, but a nice looking instrument with potential. It's currently in the hands of a professional brass instrument repair technician for dent repairs & unsticking stuck slides & getting stuck rotary valves unstuck & restrung & working freely.  The brand name engraved on the outside of the bell throat is Hallmark. 

While I was puzzling over my non-Conn 6D clone marked Lorenzo Sansone NYC, I reached out to the proprietor of an outstanding horn collector web site.  The collector in turn put me in touch with a retired professional hornist who not only knows lots about Lorenzo Sansone horns, but who actually studied horn playing under the instruction of Maestro Sansone in New York.  The former Sansone student never heard of anything resembling Conn 6D made by Sansone or made elsewhere & marked Sansone.  Not only that, nothing resembling Conn 6D is shown in Sansone's 1955 catalog, according to the PDF facsimile catalog that's viewable on the collector's web site.  The Sansone expert suggested the possibility that the 6D clone marked Sansone was a 1-off prototype.

When I received the eBay Hallmark horn, I noticed that its weight & construction details were lots more like the Lorenzo Sansone 6D clone than like any 6D made by C.G. Conn.  I mentioned that by E-Mail message to the horn collector & to the Sansone expert.  In response, the collector told me that Hallmark is a name found on some instruments made by York Band Instruments Co. of Grand Rapids, Michigan. 

I have concluded, therefore, that if the Hallmark clone of Conn 6D was made by York, then so was the Conn 6D clone marked Lorenzo Sansone New York.

Meanwhile, I successfully flipped (eBay) another _French Horn Rescue_ instrument, a Holton Farkas H-179 that had a badly dented bell tail and bell flare (1 piece) when I got it.  It was exactly what I had in mind last year when I bought a brand-new 2-piece (scewbell) Holton Farkas bell tail & used Holton Farkas bell fiare in good condition, figuring those items would be useful before too long.  A professional brass instrument repair technician removed the damaged bell tail & flare & installed the eBay replacement parts.  (To offset part of the cost of the 2-piece bell tail & flare & generic flat carrying case, I sold the repairable damaged original 1-piece bell tail & flare on eBay.  Waste not, want not.)

The Chief Of Staff modified a generic flat horn case to fit the screwbell-converted H-179, which got bids right away on eBay & sold for a reasonable price 1st time out.  

Next up will be a very nice Yamaha YHR-321 B-flat single horn & a _French Horn Rescue_ Conn (Elkhart) 8D that The Chief Of Staff snagged for me at a Florida flea market. 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## AwayWeGo

*Horn Flipper Out Of The Closet.*




AwayWeGo said:


> I now have another _French Horn Rescue_ candidate, an Elkhart Conn 8D in rough condition.  The Chief Of Staff bought it for me last weekend at Pecan Park Flea Market while the old man was eyeballing classic cars on Amelia Island, near Jacksonville FL.
> 
> The Elkhart 8D is now in the hands of a professional brass instrument repair technician for _fixa-fixa-fixa_ (mostly dent work, including smoothing out some serious creases at the bell throat, which already has 2 small patches).


Horn fixer did a nice job on the Jacksonville flea market Elkhart Conn 8D -- smoothed out all dents, removed the patches covering 2 small cracks, & repaired the cracks using silver solder.  (Don't try that at home.) 

Horn plays great, sounds wonderful, looks OK. 

It has generated nine _-- 9 --_ bids (so far) on eBay.  The auction runs through tomorrow night (Sunday).  

Meanwhile, my outstanding Yamaha YHR-321 has been on eBay several times -- no bids -- & it's on again, also with no bids.  I'm pricing it on the high side because of its outstanding condition.  Trouble is, other people's average- or poor-condition Yamaha YHR-321s show up on eBay for less often enough to quell interest in mine.  So it goes. 

When _-- if --_ the Yamaha YHR-321 sells, I have another 1 just like it that's almost as outstanding which will also go on eBay.  

Waiting in the wings for eBay action are two _-- 2 --_ non-Conn clones of Conn 6D, one near pristine & the other in OK condition.   

Is this a great country or what ? 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## AwayWeGo

*Horn Flip Update.*

Florida flea market _French Horn Rescue_ C.G. Conn (Elkhart) 8D is out of here -- en route to eBay purchaser via USPS. 

Lorenzo Sansone clone of Conn 6D is likewise out of here -- en route via FedEx Ground. 

Yamaha YHR-321 remains unsold -- despite the fact that Wichita Band Instruments (Kansas) has 1 just like it on eBay for twice my opening bid amount even though it's in no better condition than mine.  No bids (so far) on my YHR-321.  No bids (so far) on theirs.  Go figure. 

Other than the YHR-321, all the flippable horns around here have been flipped except 1, which is still in the hands of the local horn fixer for dentwork & unsticking the valves & slides.  No rush. 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## AwayWeGo

*Another Horn Ready To Go.  (Is This A Great Country Or What?)*




AwayWeGo said:


> Other than the YHR-321, all the flippable horns around here have been flipped except 1, which is still in the hands of the local horn fixer for dentwork & unsticking the valves & slides.  No rush.


While we were away for the weekend visiting Rehoboth Beach, Delaware, with our California son & daughter-in-law & 2 granddaughters, the horn fixer called to say that remaining horn he was working on for me is all squared away & good to go & ready for pick-up. 

I have an uncanny talent for being away when he calls to tell me a horn is ready -- have previously been in Florida & other vacation spots when he called to let me know other horns were all fixed.  

Plan now is to arrange to go get the fixed horn (& pay repair bill) once we see the kids & grandkids off at the airport after a nice East Coast visit. 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## AwayWeGo

*Good Playing Horn.*




AwayWeGo said:


> Plan now is to arrange to go get the fixed horn (& pay repair bill) once we see the kids & grandkids off at the airport after a nice East Coast visit.


After coming back from the airport yesterday, I had breakfast, went over to Planet Fitness & moved iron, came back, showered down, got dressed, & called up the horn fixer saying I'd like to come over to pay my bill ($80) & pick up the horn. 

He said OK. 

Drove over, got horn, tanked up Toyota Prius V on the way home, came back with the horn, swapped out its shabby looking & ill-fitting carrying case for a slightly better case I had down in the basement, photographed the horn for eBay, & put it aside till today. 

This afternoon, I got out the horn & played some familiar exercises & musical excerpts on it.  Good sound.  Good response.  Nice instrument -- so much so that I think I'll play it at brass quintet rehearsal later this afternoon. 

Is this a great country or what ?

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## AwayWeGo

*Plastic Trumpet.*




AwayWeGo said:


> -- hotlinked --​
> Click here for the particulars.


Non-toy plastic trumpets are here. 





-- hotlinked --​
Click here for full details. 

What will they think of next ?

( I'm not holding my breath while waiting for plastic French horns. )

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## AwayWeGo

*The Horns, They Keep On A-Flipping.*




AwayWeGo said:


> Florida flea market _French Horn Rescue_ C.G. Conn (Elkhart) 8D is out of here -- en route to eBay purchaser via USPS.
> 
> Lorenzo Sansone clone of Conn 6D is likewise out of here -- en route via FedEx Ground.
> 
> Yamaha YHR-321 remains unsold -- despite the fact that Wichita Band Instruments (Kansas) has 1 just like it on eBay for twice my opening bid amount even though it's in no better condition than mine.  No bids (so far) on my YHR-321.  No bids (so far) on theirs.  Go figure.
> 
> Other than the YHR-321, all the flippable horns around here have been flipped except 1, which is still in the hands of the local horn fixer for dentwork & unsticking the valves & slides.  No rush.


Work on that horn was completed & the horn was successfully flipped.  Case closed. 

Meanwhile, I restocked -- got another high quality but badly battered Elkhart Conn 8D (Craig's List) & a nice Selmer USA double horn that needs a little work (not much).  I also snagged a near-prisitne Holton-Farkas clone that needs no repair work whatever.  

The latest Craig's List _French Horn Rescue_ 8D is on the repair technician's bench right now.  The Selmer USA double will go in next for repairs.  The Holton-Farkas clone is good to go as-is right now.   

All my ready-to-go double horns have flipped just fine -- who'd a-thunk ? 

But my outstanding Yamaha YHR-321 B-flat single horns have proved so far to be flip-resistant.  

So it goes. 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## AwayWeGo

*Addicted To Flipping Horns.*




AwayWeGo said:


> [The Holton-Farkas clone is good to go as-is right now.


Holton-Farkas clone is flipped.  Out of here.  Gone. 

Now the Devil has me eyeballing a Craig's List Conn 6D.  Maybe tomorrow.  I'm taking the rest of today off. 

( Remember the Olden Days when it was possible to flip timeshares ? )

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## Passepartout

AwayWeGo said:


> ( Remember the Olden Days when it was possible to flip timeshares ? )
> 
> -- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​



Or to flip houses. You can't get nearly as scalded on a horn! Sounds like a nice retirement hobby, not to mention that is appears to be pretty much full employment for your horn technician.


----------



## AwayWeGo

Passepartout said:


> Sounds like a nice retirement hobby, not to mention that is appears to be pretty much full employment for your horn technician.


I'm pretty sure I am the horn repair guy's steadiest customer, although when I went over there once recently, a guy was there dropping off two _-- 2 --_ tubas for major serious work.  

As it happens, however, the Holton-Farkas clone was immaculate & in near-pristine condition when I got it.  Didn't need any work at all.  Flipped it totally as-was, a rarity in my horn flipping experience. 

I like it best when the person I buy from is satisfied & when my horn fixer gets paid for a good job & the person I sell to gets a good deal on a nice horn & I make a little something on the transaction -- win-win-win-win. 

I got taken to the cleaners on a couple of horns I resold -- a humbling experience that enhances the positive feeling from a successful flip. 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## AwayWeGo

*Fixing & Flipping.*




AwayWeGo said:


> I restocked -- got another high quality but badly battered Elkhart Conn 8D (Craig's List) & a nice Selmer USA double horn that needs a little work (not much).


Formerly battered Elkhart Conn 8D is back from repairs.  Plays great.  Sounds great.  Looks OK.  Could be a keeper -- but more likely to be flipped.  (How many keepers is it practical to keep?)

The Selmer USA double horn is now in the hands of the repair technician.  It's a flipper for sure when I get it back all fixed. 

Is this a great country or what ?

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## AwayWeGo

*Toothpaste & Horn Playing.*

At a routine dentist appointment, the hygienist said I should use baking soda toothpaste because it fights stains.  So I bought some & started using it.

After using that stuff consistently, I started having trouble playing horn -- felt like I was blowing through duck lips covered in alligator skin.  Plus, I had chapping & cracking.

I toughed it out through 2 Legacy Brass rehearsals & 1 Cathedral Brass rehearsal without catching on that the baking soda toothpaste & the lip discomfort might be related.

When that idea occurred to me, I quit using baking soda toothpaste & went back to just regular Crest.  That brought no immediate improvement, but after 2-3 weeks the swelling & cracking improved -- no more duck lips, no more alligator skin.  Lots better now.

Who'd a-thunk ?

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## Passepartout

Interesting. I wondered about using Biotene to increase the moisture in the mouth. DW is the resident hornist here, not me, but find that at night my head fills with ..... stuff... and I end up mouth breathing and it becomes as dry as the Sahairy Desert. The aforementioned Biotene is said to increase mouth moisture better than water, but at just a bit under $20 for not very much, I was going to let someone else try it and report back before I made the outlay.

I always liked the way I perceived that the baking soda toothpaste cleaned and left my teeth feeling, and never noticed any chapping, but my musical talent is pretty much limited to tuning the radio and singing in the shower.

So it goes.

Jim


----------



## Mamianka

AwayWeGo said:


> Non-toy plastic trumpets are here.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- hotlinked --​
> Click here for full details.
> 
> What will they think of next ?
> 
> ( I'm not holding my breath while waiting for plastic French horns. )
> 
> -- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​



I bought a plastic flute - D foot and C foot, straight and recurved head (for short arms or bad necks) for $150.  Weighs nothing - plays OK.  I know a few flutists who do the beach-wedding gig thing, and do not want sand blowing into a ten-grand flute - so these are fine.  And - yes, the pads are waterproof.  The literature even says that it is a good idea to WASH your flute every so often!!!!  This had been the *cross to the vampire* for us flutists forever - but times change - we had better do so, too.

P


----------



## AwayWeGo

*Where To Click ?*




Mamianka said:


> I bought a plastic flute - D foot and C foot, straight and recurved head (for short arms or bad necks) for $150.


Cool.  

What's the web site for plastic flutes ?

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## channimal

DW is a dental hygienist and says Biotene is the real deal and works.  Dry mouth is a bad thing and can lead to bacteria that would advance tooth decay.  Biotene is your friend 

Regarding baking soda... she says to be *extremely* careful with the amount you use.  The problem is its abrasiveness and can damage enamel.  Despite all of the horrible commercials that tout certain brands of toothpaste able to "rebuild enamel".. it's a falsehood.  When enamel is gone.. it's gone for good.  No getting it back.  If you have problems with staining, better to ask your dentist for whitening trays.  These are trays that are custom molded (from an impression of your mouth) and can be filled with a solution that will aid in whitening.  They are also made to help lessen the impact of teeth-grinding while sleeping.



Passepartout said:


> Interesting. I wondered about using Biotene to increase the moisture in the mouth. DW is the resident hornist here, not me, but find that at night my head fills with ..... stuff... and I end up mouth breathing and it becomes as dry as the Sahairy Desert. The aforementioned Biotene is said to increase mouth moisture better than water, but at just a bit under $20 for not very much, I was going to let someone else try it and report back before I made the outlay.
> 
> I always liked the way I perceived that the baking soda toothpaste cleaned and left my teeth feeling, and never noticed any chapping, but my musical talent is pretty much limited to tuning the radio and singing in the shower.
> 
> So it goes.
> 
> Jim


----------



## AwayWeGo

*Quinn The Eskimo.*




Sheera said:


> I bought a trombone on ebay today. I got it from quinn the eskimo; any experience wirh him?


As it happens, I just recently sold Quinn The Eskimo a _French Horn Rescue_ Elkhart Conn 8D via eBay -- shipped it out yesterday. 

I have sent in losing bids on plenty of Quinn The Eskimo's eBay offerings, but I have not (yet) bought any of his inventory.  

It's surprising to me that a horn flipper like Quinn The Eskimo sprang for my "rescue" French horn.  The price he paid doesn't leave much margin for reflipping far as I can see, although some of those classic Elkhart 8D "Connstellation" French horns have sold for a pretty penny.  

I bought the "rescue" horn in terrible condition off Craig's List, got it totally repaired functionally (but not refinished for looks), & marked it up appropriately for my eBay starting bid amount.  Quinn The Eskimo sniped in with 4 seconds left in the auction, overtopping 4 earlier bids from other people. 

I noticed that Quinn The Eskimo buys instruments using a different eBay user name from the 1 he uses for selling -- not that there's anything wrong with that. 

Meanwhile, not only did I flip my _French Horn Rescue_ Elkhart Conn 8D, I also sold my previously flip-resistant Yamaha YHR-321 Bb single horn that I've been trying to sell for months & months.  

With those 2 instruments out of here, today is French horn photography day.  I'll be taking pictures of my remaining Yamaha YHR-321.  Even though it looks just like the 1 that sold, I won't feel right re-using the old eBay pictures.  I'm also going to snap digital pix of a very nice Selmer USA double horn that by sheerest coincidence I picked up all fixed from the instrument repair technician the same day I shipped out the "rescue" 8D & the YHR-321.

Is this a great country or what ? 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## wackymother

channimal said:


> DW is a dental hygienist and says Biotene is the real deal and works.  Dry mouth is a bad thing and can lead to bacteria that would advance tooth decay.  Biotene is your friend



Off topic a bit, but if you want to try Biotene, ask your dentist for a sample. I had my teeth cleaned the other day and asked the hygienist about Biotene, and she put a couple of small bottles in my party bag.


----------



## channimal

wackymother said:


> Off topic a bit, but if you want to try Biotene, ask your dentist for a sample. I had my teeth cleaned the other day and asked the hygienist about Biotene, and she put a couple of small bottles in my party bag.



hehe.. not just Biotene but toothpaste, toothbrushes, tongue cleaner, floss, etc.  Don't be afraid to ask for samples. DW loves handing them out.


----------



## AwayWeGo

*Horn Buyer Regret.*




AwayWeGo said:


> Holton-Farkas clone is flipped.  Out of here.  Gone.


I am virtually certain I saw that very same horn for sale on eBay _and_ Craig's List recently.  

Not a horn just like that, but that particular specific Holton-Farkas clone -- the very same instrument that I flipped. 

What convinces me it's the same horn is the seller's location.  Even though I advertised the horn on Craig's List in my own locality, the buyer found it & made arrangements to come here to see it from his home 900+ miles away.  (They were traveling to the area anyway & added horn shopping to their trip.)  They liked the instrument & bought it & thanked me & headed back with the horn. 

Now, just a few weeks later, the new owner has the horn for sale again.  My buyer's location is shown as the eBay seller's location.  His Craig's List ad is on the Craig's List section covering his locality. 

The horn is not unique, but so few of'm out are out there that there's little chance the one on eBay & Craig's List from their locality could be some different copy of that model. 

So it goes. 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## wackymother

AwayWeGo said:


> I am virtually certain I saw that very same horn for sale on eBay _and_ Craig's List recently.
> 
> Not a horn just like that, but that particular specific Holton-Farkas clone -- the very same instrument that I flipped.
> 
> What convinces me it's the same horn is the seller's location.  Even though I advertised the horn on Craig's List in my own locality, the buyer found it & made arrangements to come here to see it from his home 900+ miles away.  (They were traveling to the area anyway & added horn shopping to their trip.)  They liked the instrument & bought it & thanked me & headed back with the horn.
> 
> Now, just a few weeks later, the new owner has the horn for sale again.  My buyer's location is shown as the eBay seller's location.  His Craig's List ad is on the Craig's List section covering his locality.
> 
> The horn is not unique, but so few of'm out are out there that there's little chance the one on eBay & Craig's List from their locality could be some different copy of that model.
> 
> So it goes.
> 
> -- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​



He's a horn flipper,too? Are there a lot of you guys out there?


----------



## timeos2

channimal said:


> hehe.. not just Biotene but toothpaste, toothbrushes, tongue cleaner, floss, etc.  Don't be afraid to ask for samples. DW loves handing them out.



I got a couple of those too. Biotene isn't inexpensive but does seem to help with dry mouth.


----------



## T_R_Oglodyte

AwayWeGo said:


> Cool.
> 
> What's the web site for plastic flutes ?
> 
> -- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​



This place sells them 18 to the box - less than $10 for the whole box.  In the original packaging and unopened.


----------



## AwayWeGo

*No Flipping Margin On That Horn.*




wackymother said:


> He's a horn flipper,too? Are there a lot of you guys out there?


I don't think he's flipping.  I think the horn player in that family changed his mind & wanted a different horn, & so they decided to resell the 1 they got from me.

If their horn sells on eBay, they'll recoup most (after fees) of what they paid me.  If it sells on Craig's List, they'll just about break even, not counting what it cost them to travel 900+ miles & back.   

I have seen a few of those horns on eBay offered at $500 or so above what I got for selling mine.  Only reason I got mine cheap enough to flip is that the person I bought it from goofed up the eBay listing -- spelled the maker's name wrong & gave too little information for non-savvy bidders to recognize what was being offered for sale.  

I claim reasonably good horn savvy -- better than most & plenty good enough for eBay & Craig's List purposes.  That's why I was able to snag the horn for a ridiculous amount that left a reasonable margin for flipping.  

I lose most eBay bids.  And not all my Craig's List offers are accepted.  Horn flippers got to be choosy -- & cheap.  

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## AwayWeGo

*Go Whistle.*




T_R_Oglodyte said:


> This place sells them 18 to the box - less than $10 for the whole box.  In the original packaging and unopened.


Yeh -- but the ones that come 18 to the box are not the real deal.  

By contrast, the plastic trumpets, trombones, & flutes previously mentioned are authentic musical instruments (entry-level versions) rather than toys or party favors. 

( Not that there's anything wrong with toys & party favors. )

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## Mamianka

AwayWeGo said:


> Yeh -- but the ones that come 18 to the box are not the real deal.
> 
> By contrast, the plastic trumpets, trombones, & flutes previously mentioned are authentic musical instruments (entry-level versions) rather than toys or party favors.
> 
> ( Not that there's anything wrong with toys & party favors. )
> 
> -- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​



I am a professional flutist and flute teacher.  I got one of these last year on a pre-convention trail price - and son of a gun - they play!  Not any comparison with a concert instrument - but if I had to take  a ong vacation on a boat or in the tropics, and just wanted to keep my lips in shape - not bad. (Action on these would do my fingers no service - spongy, slower in milliseconds than my concert instrument.  If it was the SAME - i could have saved ten grand.) If I got hired to play a wedding on a beach - not bad.  There are higher-level plastic (resin, Grenaditte, etc.) flutes and piccolo, many by fine makers, that replace wooden bodies - concert piccolos, marhcing piccolos, flute that replace ancient-system historical-style flute, plastic contemporary flute ins wacky colors (not to be confused whit the spray-painted pot-metal trash).  Many fo these have totally waterproof pads - a great boon to anyone who has to play in wet conditions.  I have had a few students get GUO piccolos ($700) for marching - they hold up great, are sweet enough for concert use, too (as opposed to a metal piccolo, good for military or cicus use - and will cause you and your bandmates to bleed form the ears . . )  So for fun - and $200 - you can have one of the Nuvo cuties.  They also make a C clarinet, for you single-reed players out there.

http://www.nuvo-instrumental.com/index.php?route=products/flute_specs

Mamianka


----------



## JudyH

deleted...


----------



## AwayWeGo

*Lightning Strikes Again.*




AwayWeGo said:


> The FedEx Ground truck pulled up in the circle this morning, as expected.  Inside the big carton left by the front door was the wrong horn.  Sheesh.
> 
> When I called the eBay seller to complain that the wrong horn had just been delivered, he said he was expecting my call because the buyer of the King single horn had already called saying he received my Amati double horn by mistake yesterday.
> 
> So, the seller said he is going to E-Mail me his FedEx Ground account information plus the name & address of the guy who bought the King single horn.  That way the King can go straight to its intended destination without detouring back through Lubbock TX.
> 
> Presumably something similar will be worked out at the other end to redirect the wayward Amati double horn to me.  We'll see.
> 
> Oh, the eBay seller also said he'll refund the shipping cost I paid, just to compensate for the mix-up.  We'll see about that too, eh?


This time, it's not the wrong horn, its _no_ horn.  The seller mistakenly sent my horn to somebody else, without sending somebody else's horn to me.  

The seller fessed up that he was tardy in sending out the eBay horn I bought, but he claimed to be perplexed by my reporting non-delivery to eBay, because he said USPS reported that the item had been delivered.  

It was delivered all right, but not to me.   Seller said he soon got a query from a 3rd party asking why seller had sent him a French horn. 

Seller now sez he will pay for the 3rd party to send the horn to me.   I expect that will happen in the fullness of time, but I am not waiting on pins & needles for the delivery.  The horn will get here when it gets here -- if it gets here.  Time will tell. 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## AwayWeGo

*Just In Case.*




AwayWeGo said:


> This time, it's not the wrong horn, its _no_ horn.  The seller mistakenly sent my horn to somebody else, without sending somebody else's horn to me.
> 
> The seller fessed up that he was tardy in sending out the eBay horn I bought, but he claimed to be perplexed by my reporting non-delivery to eBay, because he said USPS reported that the item had been delivered.
> 
> It was delivered all right, but not to me.   Seller said he soon got a query from a 3rd party asking why seller had sent him a French horn.
> 
> Seller now sez he will pay for the 3rd party to send the horn to me.   I expect that will happen in the fullness of time, but I am not waiting on pins & needles for the delivery.  The horn will get here when it gets here -- if it gets here.  Time will tell.


Horn not yet delivered.  eBay "case" is open -- closes automatically in a couple of days unless I "escalate."  If horn is not delivered by Tuesday, I will "escalate" Wednesday.  I'd rather receive the horn than get a refund, but I will accept refund if horn is lost irretrievably. 

Meanwhile, I bought two ( _-- 2 --_ ) Craig's List hardshell carrying cases for French horns -- no horns, just 2 carrying cases. No immediate need for'm, but they'll be useful in case I snag any more caseless horns via eBay.  Being willing to buy horns without cases is a bidding advantage over eBay customers who only want horns that already have carrying cases.  (Ditto horns without mouthpieces -- & as it happens I also have a cigar boxful of extra French horn mouthpieces.)

The undelivered eBay horn has no case -- 1 reason my low bid amount won.

Horn flipping has taken on a life of its own.  Who'd a-thunk ?

_Update*:*_ My patience with the undelivered horn ran out last night, so I "escalated" the case to eBay's customer service department.  By E-Mail this morning, eBay notified me that they decided the case in my favor & I'm getting a full refund (purchase price plus shipping charge).  That's OK, but I would have preferred receiving the horn.  Meanwhile, I won the eBay bidding on another caseless double horn, so the hornless cases will not go unused. 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## pedro47

To the OP I just order another camera that is now nine in my collections.  To  the OP just sit back and enjoy your horns.


----------



## AwayWeGo

*Snagged, Fixed, Cased, & Flipped.*




AwayWeGo said:


> I bought two ( _-- 2 --_ ) Craig's List hardshell carrying cases for French horns -- no horns, just 2 carrying cases. No immediate need for'm, but they'll be useful in case I snag any more caseless horns via eBay.


The caseless eBay horn that got lost is still lost.  Too bad. 

Meanwhile, I snagged another eBay horn that was also in need of a carrying case, a King (Cleveland) double horn in F & Bb.  It also needed $125 worth of repairs -- mainly dent removal, now completed. 

One of the Craig's List horn cases turned out to be a good fit for the King double horn.  

After photographing the nicely repaired horn in & out of its Pro-Tec carrying case, I put it on Craig's List.  Before long a mother & horn-playing son showed up to see the instrument.  The son tried it & liked it.  The mom made an offer close to the asking price & a deal was made -- another successful installment in the _French Horn Rescue_ saga. 

Is this a great country or what ? 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## AwayWeGo

*Bought Another eBay French Horn -- Premeditated Purchase This Time.*

After successfully flipping my entire inventory of non-keeper horns, I made an offer on an attractive & unusual eBay horn, described by the seller (a brass instrument maker & professional repair technician) as a pro-conversion of Conn 6D. 

When C.G. Conn introduced model 6D to its French horn catalog way back in the 1920s or so, 6D was the company's top-line professional horn.  Years later, Conn added the famous 8D "Connstellation" model as its top professional French horn, thereafter marketing "Artist" model 6D horns as student-line instruments. 

Well.  If 6D was a professional-quality horn before the introduction of 8D, then it should still be professional quality afterward.  That is, nothing about the addition of Conn 8D to the catalog automatically degraded the sound quality & playing characteristics, etc., of Conn 6D.  If they were good before 8D came out (& they were), then they're still good now. 

So when eBay seller Lanstro offered a Conn 6D pro-conversion via _Buy It Now Or Make Offer_, I sent in an offer -- lowball -- which got turned down in a flash. 

I waited a few days, then upped my offer by $100.  That got me a counteroffer from the seller that was $150 higher than my 2nd offer -- still too rich for my blood (at the time). 

But after flipping my last remaining _French Horn Rescue_ instrument, I reconsidered.  The money was about to burn a hole in my pocket, so I accepted the seller's counteroffer before it expired & paid instantly via PayPal.  Instead of paying for shipping, I arranged to pick up the Conn 6D pro-conversion at the seller's Orlando FL workshop in person when I'm in the Sunshine State next week.  

Over the years I have bought & played & flipped so many Conn 6Ds that I can't even remember all of'm.  I'm looking forward with enthusiasm to playing one now that's been professionally customized & reconfigured as a professional-level instrument. 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## AwayWeGo

*Upscale Horn Resold.  Buyer Regret Resolved.*




AwayWeGo said:


> I think the horn player in that family changed his mind & wanted a different horn, & so they decided to resell the 1 they got from me.
> 
> If their horn sells on eBay, they'll recoup most (after fees) of what they paid me.  If it sells on Craig's List, they'll just about break even, not counting what it cost them to travel 900+ miles & back.


After months on eBay & Craig's List, the unwanted horn that those folks bought from me has sold.  Their completed eBay listing indicated that an offer had been accepted.  I hope they got big bux for the horn.

Plus, it's no longer on Craig's List.  Last time I saw that horn on Craig's List, there was a notation that the horn player in the family had moved on to other activities. 

I'm glad.  I don't like to see folks stuck with pricey items they don't want -- timeshares & French horns _mox nix_. 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## AwayWeGo

*Flipping Or Flopping ?*

Until lately, the rescued & repaired horns around here have been selling just about as fast as I've been listing'm on eBay or Craig's List or both.  

Now I'm backlogged with three _-- 3 --_ outstanding French Horn Rescue Conn 6D clones, 1 by York (Grand Rapids, Michigan) + 1 by Buescher (Elkhart, Indiana) + 1 by Anborg (Como, Italy).  

After expert repairs, done locally by an experienced brass instrument technician, all 3 Conn 6D clones play great.  Plus, they all look OK -- no dents.  All 3 have sturdy & functional carrying cases -- 2 with replacement latches from the hardware store & 1 case heavily reinforced by Gorilla Tape*.* 

Flipping horns via Craig's List is preferable to eBay.  Not only do local, in-person sales avoid eBay fees & PayPal charges, they also give prospective buyers the opportunity to check things out & noodle around on the horns before buying.  Plus, selling horns in person means not having to box'm up for shipping via FedEx Ground or UPS or USPS -- a big plus. 

I have not concluded that my outstanding Anborg & Buescher & York clones of Conn 6D are flip-resistant -- not yet.  It may just be that the moms & dads out there in Craig's List Land are waiting for school to start in the fall before searching out French horns for junior & sis to play in school band.  

Otherwise, there's always eBay. 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## siesta

Love this thread. Its like I'm reading a journal. Keep it up and thanks for sharing.

I played the trumpet for 6 years in grade and middle school; however, these days I doubt I could still even read music.


----------



## AwayWeGo

*Thanks.*




siesta said:


> Love this thread. Its like I'm reading a journal. Keep it up and thanks for sharing.
> 
> I played the trumpet for 6 years in grade and middle school; however, these days I doubt I could still even read music.


I am persuaded that French horn & bassoon & oboe, etc., are hard-core geeky instruments by contrast with trumpets & trombones & saxophones & tubas & drums, etc., which are way cool any way you shake it. 

There are advantages to playing a geeky instrument.  When the draft board was breathing down my neck & I auditioned for a vacancy in 1 of the many army bands that were in existence back then (1965), I was 1 guy trying out for 3 vacant French horn spots in 1 particular army band.  I didn't have to be any good.  I just had to be able to operate the instrument OK at a basic performance level.  By contrast, if I had auditioned on trumpet-trombone-saxophone-clarinet-tuba-drums, etc., I would have had to be reasonably talented in order to get in.  It is arguable that playing French horn saved my life.  

After the funeral 13 years ago of a friend who had been in bands with me from grade school all through high school & college, my friend's widow offered me my friend's old trumpet -- a silver plated F.E. Olds (Los Angeles) large-bore B-flat trumpet in a shabby, worn-out carrying case.  She was clearing out unwanted items, so I overcame my reluctance & accepted my old friend's trumpet.

I bought a nice new eBay trumpet case for my departed friend's outstanding Olds trumpet.  Another friends sewed my deceased friend's high school solo & ensemble performance medals into the plush lining of the lid of the trumpet case.  Everything looked great.  But nobody played that trumpet.  It just sat there, unused & mostly unappreciated.  

Recently, at my college 50th anniversary class reunion, I reunited with my deceased friend's brother, who played tuba in high school & college.  I mentioned the large-bore Olds trumpet, saying it was an honor to have it as a memento but expressing the feeling also that it would be better for the trumpet to be in the hands of its former owner's son or grandchildren.  My surviving friend suggested reaching out to the widow (who has since remarried), describing the situation with her 1st husband's old trumpet. 

So I did.  She thanked me & said she would check with her son.  She did.  He said he'd like to have it.  So I boxed it up, with plenty of bubble wrap inside the case & inside the mailing carton around the case, & entrusted the trumpet to USPS. 

While the trumpet was en route, I got a nice E-Mail note from my deceased friend's son, as follows*:*

Hi Alan,

This is great!  I would love to have this.  Thank you for thinking of me as you, er, cleaned out the closet.  

The timing is a bit interesting, actually; I have three kiddos (13, 10, and 6) and the middle one, my daughter, is leaving 5th grade and choosing to play an instrument going into 6th.  She chose the violin, what her mom played, and I was thinking back to my decision to play the trumpet just like my dad.  Even though he is not with us any more, I appreciate everything he did for me and occasionally even stop long enough to reflect on how the pattern repeats itself.

I hope you are well and always smile whenever a piece of my dad's past and life touches mine.  Thank you again!

Reuniting the trumpet with my friend's family is a very satisfying & satisfactory outcome.  I am sorry my friend is gone, but I am glad I'm still here -- still breathing air & still playing horn.  Who'd a-thunk ?

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## AwayWeGo

*Competition For Tiger Trumpet -- The Only Surprise Is It Didn't Happen Sooner.*




AwayWeGo said:


> Non-toy plastic trumpets are here.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- hotlinked --​
> Click here for full details.


It was inevitable that a competitor for Tiger Trumpet would emerge.  





-- hotlinked --​
What's unsurprising that the competition, P-Trumpet, is from the people who came out with the non-toy plastic trombone a few years ago.

More recently, they've added a smaller instrument in higher pitch (E-flat) to their plastic trombone line-up -- an alto or mini P-Bone.  





-- hotlinked --​
Who'd a-thunk ? 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## pedro47

Wow amazing pictures !!!


----------



## Ken555

AwayWeGo said:


> Who'd a-thunk ?




Amazing. I haven't played in years but love the sound from my Bach Stradivarius. Hard to believe plastic could sound as nice. I'd like to see one of these plastic trumpets and compare!


Sent from my iPad


----------



## AwayWeGo

*Bach Stradivarius Is Outstanding.*




Ken555 said:


> I haven't played in years but love the sound from my Bach Stradivarius. Hard to believe plastic could sound as nice. I'd like to see one of these plastic trumpets and compare!


The main things determining the sound of a wind instrument are the shape, length, taper, & bore of the piece of air that the lips set into vibration.  In essence, the air doesn't care what the material is which defines the particular piece of air that's made to vibrate.

Even so, it is widely believed that the materials involved still make a noticeable, if slight, difference in sound.  

I have a demo CD issued by Bach (Selmer USA) featuring recordings by the same trumpeter playing the same music on 2 different Bach Stradivarius B-flat trumpets, one with conventional silver plated brass bell & the other just like it except with a sterling silver trumpet bell.  Listening carefully (through my high-tech digital hearing aids), I honestly can't distinguish any difference in sound between brass & silver.  (Shux upon me.) 

It would be interesting to hear a comparable demonstration of brass & plastic trumpets playing the same music by the same trumpeter.  

Recently I read an internet story about blind tests for sound quality & playing characteristics of ancient Stradivarius & Guarneri violins side by side with top quality modern violins right out of the makers' workshops.  Care was taken so that neither the violinists involved nor those listening to the music could tell which instruments were new & which were old.  Click here for a story about the test results. 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## AwayWeGo

*Yamaha (Japan) Is Outstanding.*

While my son & daughter-in-law & grandson are (timeshare) vacationing in Orlando FL, I've been checking the Orlando section of Craig's List for French horn bargains.  

Last week I spied a complete but damaged Yamaha double horn (B-Flat & F) for an asking price that was reasonable in light of the banged-up condition of the horn shown in the Orlando Craig's List photos.  (An obvious _French Horn Rescue_ candidate.)

I forwarded the ad to my son, with the idea in mind of asking him to pay for the horn & pick it up in Orlando in the event I reached a deal via E-Mail with the Orlando Craig's List seller.  He said OK. 

I made the seller a semi-ridiculous offer.  Via return E-Mail, he accepted.  My son got directions to the seller's location & arranged a time for payment & pick-up, which occurred Sunday evening.  

The horn has been in my son's possession ever since.  He looked at it closely & determined that it's a Yamaha YHR-667, a highly regarded "Geyer wrap" professional model.  

"Geyer wrap" means the 4th valve is located next to the 3rd valve.  By contrast, on "Kruspe wrap" double horns the 4th valve is right next to the 1st valve.  ("Wrap" in horn-speak refers to the way the horn's tubing is wound round & round.) Both 4th valves are thumb-operated, via short linkage on Kruspe-style horns & by longer linkage on Geyers.  Which is better?  I don't know.  By me it's _mox nix_ even though plenty of horn players out there have strong feelings on the subject -- not unlike people's arguments over the relative merits of iPhone & android mobile devices.

The next task is to figure out how to get the horn from Orlando FL to McLean VA without unduly inconveniencing my son & his family, while also avoiding any airline baggage fees.  Current thinking is to see if we can pick up the horn at a timeshare resort where we'll be staying later this month -- _if_ (& it's a big if) someone at the resort will say OK.   Fortunately, it's only a relatively compact French horn & not a humongous tuba or bulky bass drum.  

Once the horn gets here, I will get it into the hands of my reliable local horn fixer as soon as I can for repair & restoration -- i.e., mainly smoothing out the dents.  After that, I'll have fun deciding whether the Orlando Craig's List Yamaha YHR-667 is a keeper or a flipper. 

Meanwhile, I still have 3 Conn 6D clones, all 3 made by different manufacturers & none made by C.G. Conn, that are all ready to flip right now.  Two are on eBay currently & all 3 are on Craig's List locally.  There's not much interest in any of them so far.  Maybe that will change when the schools start up again after summer vacation.  We'll see. 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## AwayWeGo

*Just A Flipper, Not A Dealer.*

I think of TUG-BBS as an insular little world of timeshare fans.  But it goes beyond that. 

Yesterday, out of the blue, I received an E-Mail message from somebody looking for a French horn for his young teen son.  The guy contacted me at the suggestion of someone who had read a bunch of these horn-flipping entries on TUG-BBS.  

I didn't have exactly what the person wanted for his son, so in my E-Mail reply I not only mentioned my current crop of flippers, but also made a suggestion for a great horn at a great price from another source.  I included a link to the horn maker's web site & (in follow-up E-Mail) a link to an attractively priced example that was on eBay at the time.  (By attractively priced, I mean $50 less than I paid the same horn maker for another horn just like that back in January.) 

I sent a CC of my reply to the person who recommended me as a potential source after reading a bunch of my TUG-BBS horn-flipping entries.  He then chimed with a ringing endorsement of the very same horn I suggested. 

The person looking for a horn for his son must have gone for that double-barreled recommendation.  When I checked eBay a few hours later, looking for the recommended horn, it was no longer there -- gone, snapped up in a flash "buy it now."  

Is this a great country or what ? 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## AwayWeGo

*Yamaha's Professional-Grade Geyer-Knopf Model Double French Horn Now Being Repaired.*




AwayWeGo said:


> Yamaha (Japan) Is Outstanding.


The Yamaha YHR-667 from Orlando FL Craig's List that my son bought for me while he was timeshare vacationing in the area is now in the hands of my regular horn repair professional back home. 

The YHR-667 is a candidate for _French Horn Rescue_.  That is, it was a really nice horn before it got semi-trashed by a previous owner via carelessness & neglect.  (I'd hate to think any of the damage was done intentionally.)

Looking forward to playing it once it comes back from the instrument repair workshop. I've never had a pro-quality Geyer-Knopf horn before.

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## AwayWeGo

*Yamaha YHR-667 Is So Outstanding That I Bought A Yamaha YHR-567 Also.*




AwayWeGo said:


> YHR-667 is a candidate for _French Horn Rescue_.


Nice fixable horns keep turning up on Craig's List, so I keep on buying (some of) them.  The latest, a Yamaha YHR-567, is a Geyer/Knopf-style horn, like Yamaha YHR-667.  

YHR-567, however, is marketed as "intermediate" while Yamaha offers YHR-667 as a "custom" or professional instrument.  

I'm not sure how reliable such designations are.  The way a horn plays is the thing, not what the catalog reading material says about it. 

Once both horns come back from repairs, then maybe we'll see. 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## theo

*A question from the clueless...*



AwayWeGo said:


> ...Yamaha double horn (*B-Flat & F*)...



Hi Alan:

The quoted partial line above caught my attention and confused me, although I will readily admit to knowing *nothing* about horns.
I know a bit about music from playing guitar and keyboards however, so I am puzzled by the concept of *one* horn being in *two* keys. 
Not to sound like a complete dunce, but how is that even possible?


----------



## AwayWeGo

*Push The 1st Valve Down, The Music Goes Round & Round O-O-O-O-O-O & It Comes Out Here*




theo said:


> The quoted partial line above caught my attention and confused me, although I will readily admit to knowing *nothing* about horns.
> I know a bit about music from playing guitar and keyboards however, so I am puzzled by the concept of *one* horn being in *two* keys.
> Not to sound like a complete dunce, but how is that even possible?


Have you ever seen (or heard of) a double-bell euphonium ? 

That's a (mostly) obsolete instrument that was in vogue among the concert band low brass crowd back in the John Philip Sousa era.  The idea was to equip the instrument with a trombone-size bell flare for notes up there in the trombone range, plus a 2nd larger bell flare for notes in the lower range.  Alongside the instrument's regular 1-2-3 valves, there is 1 more valve whose sole purpose is to direct the airflow to whichever bell flare the player wants to use, the larger or the smaller.  (Some euphoniums have 1-2-3-4 valves, so the double-bell versions of those have a 5th valve for switching between bell flares.)

In the world of French horns, the standard professional models & advanced student horns ("double horns") are built in 2 keys -- F & B-flat.  All the sound comes out through just 1 large bell flare, & the air all goes in through 1 mouthpiece.  In between are 2 complete sets of partly parallel airways.  The player selects 1 or the other by using a thumb-operated 4th valve to pitch the horn in F or in Bb, whichever is needed to play the music best.  Each of 1-2-3 valves is made with parallel dual airways, 1 for Bb & another for F.  There are 2 sets of side by side valve slides -- the air detours that temporarily lengthen the horn when a valve lever is down.  There are 2 main tuning slides, Bb & F.  With all that extra hardware, a double horn is lots heavier than a single horn.  

Single horns come in both Bb & F.  Bb singles are shorter in overall tubing length than F singles.

Not all 4-valve French horns are doubles.  Some single Bb horns are equipped with a 4th valve used to play hand-stopped notes in tune.  That's not needed on F horns, only because the acoustics of hand-stopping a longer horn in F just happen to work out right to produce that mute-like effect more or less in tune, depending on the player's accuracy & skill.  

After sending this in, I'll look up some internet pictures of single & double horns -- & maybe a double-bell euphonium. 

Aren't you glad you asked ?

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## theo

*Thanks!*



AwayWeGo said:


> Aren't you glad you asked ?



Actually, I *am* glad I asked  --- and thanks for the detailed explanation. Any day learning something new is a day that's off to a good start.  

Also, I can now add the word "euphonium" to my vocabulary. I'm not entirely sure how I could or would work it into everyday conversation, but I'll certainly be ready if the occasion should ever arise.


----------



## AwayWeGo

*1 Never Know, Do 1 ?*



theo said:


> Also, I can now add the word "euphonium" to my vocabulary. I'm not entirely sure how I could or would work it into everyday conversation, but I'll certainly be ready if the occasion should ever arise.






-- hotlinked --
5-Valve Double Bell Euphonium.​


----------



## AwayWeGo

*4-Valve Euphonium.*





-- hotlinked --

(Slanted 4th Valve Partly Concealed In Back.)​


----------



## AwayWeGo

*Yamaha YHR-667 Double French Horn -- F & B-Flat.*





-- hotlinked --

Geyer/Knopf style -- 4th Valve Next To 3rd Valve.​


----------



## AwayWeGo

*Holton Farkas Model Double French Horn.*





-- hotlinked --

Kruspe style -- 4th Valve Next To 1st Valve. ​


----------



## AwayWeGo

*Yamaha YHR-322 Single French Horn In B-Flat.*





-- hotlinked --

Thumb-operated 4th Valve. 
(For Playing Hand-Stopped Notes In Tune.)​


----------



## AwayWeGo

*Yamaha YHR-314 Single French Horn -- Key Of F.*





-- hotlinked  --

Plain Vanilla 3-Valve Single F Horn.​


----------



## AwayWeGo

*Don't Just Take My Word For It . . .*

 *. . .* click here for a brief video featuring a nice lady talking about the F & Bb sides of her double French horn. 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


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## AwayWeGo

*Vienna Horn -- Semi-Obsolete Single Horn In F.*





-- hotlinked --
Vienna Horn.​
Horns of this style are still used, with masterful results, by the horn players of the Vienna Philharmonic -- & nowhere else that I know of.  Vienna horns are said to have a rich sound that horns of modern design cannot equal, so that orchestra still uses them even though they're reputed to be much more difficult to play than today's double (& triple) horns.  The design is from the mid-19th century.  Because they are still in (limited) use today, they are still made by a few instrument makers. (That is, the antique-style horns still being played are not necessarily actual antiques.)

Click here for a U-Tube video featuring fabulous playing by amazing hornists performing on Vienna horns*.* 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## theo

*Dawn breaks...*



AwayWeGo said:


> All the sound comes out through just 1 large bell flare, & the air all goes in through 1 mouthpiece.  *In between are 2 complete sets of partly parallel airways.* *The player selects 1 or the other by operating a thumb-operated 4th valve to pitch the horn in F or in Bb*...



This is clearly the important detail that I could not / did not initially comprehend or conceptualize. 
I appreciate your efforts in explaining same, further reinforced by the video whose link you  thoughtfully provided. Thanks again.


----------



## AwayWeGo

*You're Welcome.*




theo said:


> Thanks again.


Don't mention it. 

Thanks for an opportunity to ride my hobby horse right here on TUG-BBS. 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## vacationtime1

theo said:


> Actually, I *am* glad I asked  --- and thanks for the detailed explanation. Any day learning something new is a day that's off to a good start.
> 
> Also, I can now add the word "euphonium" to my vocabulary. I'm not entirely sure how I could or would work it into everyday conversation, but I'll certainly be ready if the occasion should ever arise.



+1 (thanks to each of you for asking and answering)


----------



## AwayWeGo

*Flipping Season Returning ?*




AwayWeGo said:


> Until lately, the rescued & repaired horns around here have been selling just about as fast as I've been listing'm on eBay or Craig's List or both.
> 
> Now I'm backlogged with three _-- 3 --_ outstanding French Horn Rescue Conn 6D clones, 1 by York (Grand Rapids, Michigan) + 1 by Buescher (Elkhart, Indiana) + 1 by Anborg (Como, Italy).


York clone of Conn 6D is flipped -- out of here as of earlier this week.  

A former university ensemble player (15 years ago) wants to get back into horn playing & join a nearby local community orchestra.  The horn he chose will be ideal for that purpose. 

Is this a great country or what ? 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## AwayWeGo

*Dead Ends In Brass Instrument Development.*








-- hotlinked --

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~​
Modern French horns, euphoniums, & other now standard brass instruments didn't get to be the way they are all at once.  Their evolution from primitive ram horns & conch shells of antiquity to their current forms happened step by step, with some false starts & blind alleys along the way.  

The instruments shown above were made by Adolphe Sax (1814-1894).  His best known & most enduring contribution to the world of music is the invention & development of the saxophone.  But that's not all.  He also experimented creatively with the brass instrument family.  The multiple-valve & multiple-bell instruments shown up top are Adolphe Sax's attempts to get around the phenomenon of valve swindle.  

Attached to each brass instrument valve, then & now, is a length of tubing that effectively lengthens the instrument by routing the air through an extra loop when the valve is down. Each 1 used alone is pretty much in tune. Using more than 1 at a time can easily make the pitch too sharp.  That's because even though the length of each loop is calculated to be OK by itself, their combined length is always too short. That's valve swindle*.* Flugelhorn 3rd-valve slide triggers & trumpet-cornet 1st & 3rd valve-slide extenders today are the most common ways of dealing with it.  Whatever Adolphe Sax's odd prototypes may have offered in intonational precision, they nevertheless were lacking in simplicity & practicality.  That's why today they're found only in museums.  So it goes. 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## AwayWeGo

*Note Of Clarification.*




AwayWeGo said:


> Have you ever seen (or heard of) a double-bell euphonium ?
> 
> That's a (mostly) obsolete instrument that was in vogue among the concert band low brass crowd back in the John Philip Sousa era.  The idea was to equip the instrument with a trombone-size bell flare for notes up there in the trombone range, plus a 2nd larger bell flare for notes in the lower range.  Alongside the instrument's regular 1-2-3 valves, there is 1 more valve whose sole purpose is to direct the airflow to whichever bell flare the player wants to use, the larger or the smaller.  (Some euphoniums have 1-2-3-4 valves, so the double-bell versions of those have a 5th valve for switching between bell flares.)


An authority on the subject (the guy who did the restoration on the double bell euphonium pictured a few frames back) pointed out that nothing about the instrument requires the person playing it to use the trombone-size bell flare for higher notes & the euphonium-size bell for the lower notes.  

Smaller for higher notes & larger for lower notes might seem like a natural way to go, but it's not mandatory.  That is, nothing about the way the instrument's tubing & valves are arranged requires doing it that way.  Low notes can sound via the smaller bell flare & high notes can come out of the larger one.  It's all up the player's musical preferences.  The instrument's design & construction work either way. 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## AwayWeGo

*The Chief Of Staff Was Right Again.  (As Usual.)*




AwayWeGo said:


> I'm backlogged with three _-- 3 --_ outstanding French Horn Rescue Conn 6D clones


No more Conn 6D clone backlog.  Once the new school term started, sure enough, band parents & band kids started looking for outstanding double horns -- & some of'm found mine.  It's exactly as The Chief Of Staff foresaw. 

The current backlog is "rescue" horns needing _fixa-fixa-fixa_.  Right now, nothing is ready to go.   

One horn is in the shop right now -- a Yamaha YHR-667 that's been there nearly a month (because it was so badly damaged when it went in).  

Three others are waiting their turns on the workbench -- an outstanding Yamaha YHR-567 in semi-rough condition, a version of Amati 345-H with lots of dented tubing, & a previously repaired Selmer USA double horn that needs just 1 minor fix (missing rubber or cork bumper for 3rd valve rotary valve stop-arm).

I take project horns over to the instrument repair technician singly, mainly so he won't have to store them while they're waiting for work but also so he can  concentrate on just 1 horn at a time.  I always ask him to take his time & fit in my "rescue" horns as non-priority projects because I'm not in a hurry while some if not most of his clients need their personal instruments fixed ASAP.  A trombonist who's in 3 ensembles that I'm in needed emergency trombone repair recently.  Our brass instrument technician fixed the trombone right away -- 15 minutes & the trombone was good to go.

The "rescue" Amati came in a high-quality aftermarket carrying case that's worth almost as much as the total eBay cost for the item + shipping.  Any gain from that, however, is apt to be offset by the repair bill, which I'm guessing will be on the high side because of all the hard-to-reach places that have dents.  (Sometimes I bite the bear & sometimes the bear bites me.)

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## AwayWeGo

*Oops!  I Did It Again.*

I must have a thing for non-Conn copies of Conn 6D.

A specially nice looking 1 of those, a silver plated version by Getzen, showed up on eBay. 

The Devil made me set up a last-minute e-snipe for it. 

With 4 seconds to go, I won ! 

( That's because there were no other bidders.  I would not have won if there had been, because my snipe amount was not much above the opening bid amount. )

Basically, I am swapping 1 of my recently flipped other 6D look-alikes for a another horn like it, except silver plated & in lots better condition.  

Is this a great country or what ? 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## AwayWeGo

*Getzen Clone Of Conn 6D Was Delivered Today.*

It's the nicest clone/copy of Conn 6D I've seen -- & I've seen lots of'm (& owned quite a few). 

The horn has a few minor dings & pings that will need to be smoothed out professionally -- but those can wait till repairs are completed on the _French Horn Rescue_ instruments already in the queue.  (The Getzen _Signature_ 6D clone is not a "rescue" horn. It clearly never suffered that degree of extensive abuse & misuse & neglect.)

Plans are to play the Getzen 6D copy at brass quintet rehearsal today & possibly also at concert band rehearsal tomorrow. 

Is this a great country or what ? 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## AwayWeGo

*Fixed - Flipped - Gone.*




AwayWeGo said:


> The Yamaha YHR-667 from Orlando FL Craig's List that my son bought for me while he was timeshare vacationing in the area is now in the hands of my regular horn repair professional back home.
> 
> The YHR-667 is a candidate for _French Horn Rescue_.  That is, it was a really nice horn before it got semi-trashed by a previous owner via carelessness & neglect.  (I'd hate to think any of the damage was done intentionally.)
> 
> Looking forward to playing it once it comes back from the instrument repair workshop. I've never had a pro-quality Geyer-Knopf horn before.


I picked up the fully repaired Yamaha YHR-667 last week (& dropped off another horn for repairs at the same time).  

The fixed YHR-667 looked & played great.  I enjoyed it -- but not enough to keep it.  So I photographed it & put it on Craig's List & eBay.

As it happens, somebody on FaceBook yesterday asked if any of his FaceBook Friends happened to have a Yamaha YHR-667 fixer upper.  I responded saying mine was just back from the shop & on Craig's List, & I included a link to my Craig's List ad.  In a flash, the guy said he'd take it.  Not only that, he said he'd be in my area today.  We arranged to meet.  He liked the horn so well that he took it with him.  It was less than a week between completion of repairs & flipping.  

My only ready-to-flip horn at the moment is a solid, good quality (but humble looking) Selmer USA double horn that's on eBay & Craig's List.  I have 1 more horn in the shop (Yamaha YHR-567) plus 2 more lined up for repair after that (Getzen "Signature" clone of Conn 6D & Amati Denak AHR-345).  

Is this a great country or what ? 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## AwayWeGo

*Out Of The Shop, Then Back In Again.*




AwayWeGo said:


> 1 more horn in the shop (Yamaha YHR-567)


I picked up the newly repaired Craig's List Yamaha YHR-567 Sunday, after morning work-out at the gym.  It played great -- on the F side of the double horn.  Unfortunately the B-flat side was messed up in a puzzling way that I could not understand & that's hard to explain to the non-French horn crowd out there.  

Basically, the notes that should have "been there" were not there -- could not be made to sound -- & the valve-fingering combinations that should have worked for the intended notes did not work.  I flat-out could not figure why.  All the visible parts of the horn were in the right places -- no misplaced tubing or slides or levers, etc.  

I described the situation to my non-horn playing son, a smart man who is interested in all things musical & plays clarinet & saxophone skillfully.  He asked me to get out the horn so he could look at it.  I did -- also demonstrating the problem.  He looked carefully all round the various turns and bends of the air circuitry & had me try blowing with certain valves down (others up) & with certain valve-slides removed (to see whether air came out the open slide tube or went all the way through to the bell fiare, producing a nice tone).  

He concluded that 2 of the valve rotors were switched -- that the 1st valve rotor was installed where the 3rd valve rotor ought to go & vice versa.  I can't quite get my mind around it, but I can't see anything wrong with that diagnosis -- plus I can't come up with any other explanation, so I that's what I told the brass instrument repair technician when I told him about the problem.  

He said he'll get to the bottom of the trouble & get it all squared away by Thursday.  That's when I'll be substituting on horn in a brass quintet in which he plays tuba.  Their regular horn player is away for 2-3 months & I agreed to fill in on horn till he gets back.  It will great fun playing in a brass group with the man who has rescued & repaired so many horns for me, & when he brings the squared away Yamaha YHR-567 with him on Thursday, that's the horn I'll play at the rehearsal.  

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## AwayWeGo

*Switched Rotors Put Right -- Getzen "Signature" Clone Of Conn 6D Also Fixed.*




AwayWeGo said:


> [My son] concluded that 2 of the valve rotors were switched -- that the 1st valve rotor was installed where the 3rd valve rotor ought to go & vice versa.  I can't quite get my mind around it, but I can't see anything wrong with that diagnosis -- plus I can't come up with any other explanation, so I that's what I told the brass instrument repair technician when I told him about the problem.


The brass instrument repair technician said yes, those 2 valve rotors got switched inadvertently.  He unswitched'm & brought the all-fixed Yamaha YHR-567 with him to brass quintet rehearsal last week, along with my outstanding Getzen _Signature_ clone of Conn 6D that needed only minor dentwork, which was also complete.  

I asked whether my non-horn-playing son deserves credit for figuring out what the trouble was with the Yamaha YHR-567.  "Indeed he does," the instrument repair technician said. 

The Yamaha played fine.  I used it all through quintet rehearsal.  All the notes were there, & they all sounded good.  Plus, the horn looks beautiful in all respects.  

I thought about switching to the Getzen midway through quintet practice, but never got round to it. 

When rehearsal was over, I went home with 3 horns -- Yamaha YHR-567, Getzen _Signature_ 6D clone, & Lanstro pro-converted Conn 6D that I took to rehearsal just in case the others were not ready.  (Even though I was pretty sure they'd both be good to go.)

In addition to his own tuba, the brass repair technician took home with him my last (for now) remaining unfixed French horn -- a "rescue" Amati-Denak AHR-345 that plays OK but looks bad because of tarnish & dents.  With the dents smoothed out, it will look lots better.  Then maybe I can use brass polish on some of the tarnished places, I don't know. 

Meanwhile, The Devil made me buy a thrift shop Olds Ambassador (student model) trombone, which looks pretty good & needs only minor dentwork plus replacement of a water-key cork.  That should flip OK on Craig's List after those minor problems are resolved. 

I'm sure it's just coincidence that last night The Chief Of Staff & I watched all but the 1st hour of _The Music Man_ on public TV.  

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## AwayWeGo

*Unsolicited E-Mail From Satisfied "Rescue" French Horn Buyer.*



AwayWeGo said:


> York clone of Conn 6D is flipped -- out of here as of earlier this week.
> 
> A former university ensemble player (15 years ago) wants to get back into horn playing & join a nearby local community orchestra.  The horn he chose will be ideal for that purpose.


The E-Mail "in" box yesterday contained a nice note from a guy who bought 1 of my non-Conn clones of Conn 6D last summer.  He typed *. . .* 

*I just wanted to tell you that I keep getting compliments on how cool my horn is from the other players that have super sleek expensive horns themselves   I joined the [local community] Symphony Orchestra and was asked a week later to join the [local] University Community Band, so I've been busy!  The chops are getting back in shape pretty quickly.  Thanks again, hope all is well with you.*

It's always satisfying to know that people get enjoyment out of playing horns they get from me.  I remember feeling semi-flabbergasted several years ago when a man called up about a horn I sold him a few months earlier.  I just assumed he would have a complaint of some kind.  Instead, he said he was calling to thank me for fixing him up with such a rewarding instrument to play. He added that he was getting more enjoyment from playing in the band than he ever had before, all because of having that horn to play instead of the 1 he had been playing previously. 

In my version of horn flipping & _French Horn Rescue_, I like it best when the person who sells me a fixer-upper is happy, when my horn repair technician gets another job out of it, when I make a little something flipping the finished product, & when the person who buys the horn from me gets a nice instrument at a favorable prince.  _Win-win-win-win._

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## vacationhopeful

Alan,
I enjoy reading your continuing saga of French horn redemptions. I started playing a French horn in 6th grade ... thru HS graduation. Let me say, I was NOT a master of that horn even at the lowest level ... but "HS Band" was listed activity on my college applications.

I am impressed by your unique hobby - one not hobbled by years, location or talent BUT a hobby bringing a class and variety of people to your door who go forth in all walks of life to provide hours of enjoyment to many others. 

Thanks for saving and restoring the French Horns that find their way to you. I just love reading your latest projects and successes. It brightens my day every time.


----------



## AwayWeGo

*Nice Of You To Say.*




vacationhopeful said:


> I enjoy reading your continuing saga of French horn redemptions. I started playing a French horn in 6th grade ... thru HS graduation. Let me say, I was NOT a master of that horn even at the lowest level ... but "HS Band" was listed activity on my college applications.
> 
> I am impressed by your unique hobby - one not hobbled by years, location or talent BUT a hobby bringing a class and variety of people to your door who go forth in all walks of life to provide hours of enjoyment to many others.
> 
> Thanks for saving and restoring the French Horns that find their way to you. I just love reading your latest projects and successes. It brightens my day every time.


I am plenty far away from mastery of the horn.  The high water mark of my progress on the instrument was after a lesson with a respected French horn teacher in the early 1980s.  After 1 grueling lesson, he held up a thumb & forefinger about 1 inch apart & said, "Alan, you're about _that far_ from being a good horn player."   I was elated. 

As to flipping horns, that has taken on a life of its own which is fun in a different way.  I was musing about that this morning on the way home from buying an outstanding Craig's List Conn 6D -- the real deal, not a clone or look-alike.  I decided that the inspiration for changing from player & collector to player & flipper is a combination of exposure to _Pawn Stars_ on TV plus familiarity with eBay & Craig's List on the internet -- that plus having access to a reliable & affordable professional horn fixer who lives not far from here.  Without him, my horn flipping days would be over & done.

Current inventory of flip-ready horns consists of 1 outstanding Yamaha YHR-567, plus 2 humbler double horns in good playing condition that sound good but look so-so (i.e., no major dents but poor finish, remaining lacquer darkened, etc.).  All of those are on Craig's List & 1 is also on eBay. (I'd rather sell via Craig's List than eBay -- saves fees & eliminates the bother of packing & shipping.)   

Currently my horn fixer is working on an Olds Ambassador trombone, bought at a ridiculous price at a Delaware thrift shop to tide me over when I ran out of fixer-upper French horns.  Since then, I've added today's Craig's List Conn 6D & 1 eBay 6D look-alike that's currently in transit.  

So the saga continues. 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## AwayWeGo

*First There Were eBay & Craig's List.  Now There's Also FaceBook.*

FaceBook has expanded well beyond its origins as an internet social network.  Now it features not only commercial advertising, but also special-interest "groups" covering everything from highbrow art to the art of speed (motorcycles, hot rods, race cars, etc.).  There's even a French Horn Trader group.  Who'd a-thunk ?  

Last month somebody on the Horn Trader group put out an entry saying, _Hey, anybody got a fixer-upper Yamaha YHR-667?_ (or words to that effect). 

As it happened, mine was in the shop.  I said so in the comments. 

After a week or so, the same guy asked the same question.  By then mine was back from the shop & on Craig's List.  In the comments, I reported that & gave a link to the Craig's List. 

Next _-- BOOM ! --_ the guy said he'd take the horn at my price less shipping.  I asked how much shipping would cost.  The guy said, _Hey, aren't you near Washington DC?_ (or words to that effect).  I said yes, so he said let's meet next day near the Lincoln Memorial, because he was planning to be in the area anyway (from some other part of the country).  He revised his offer downward by $50, which he said was less than I would have paid in shipping costs if I had shipped him the horn instead.  OK by me, I said. 

We met.  He checked out the horn, discovered it was exactly as described, & whipped out his smartphone, which he used to send the money to my PayPal account.  I whipped out my smartphone & used that to see that, sure enough, the French horn money had just landed in my PayPal account. 

He did not want the mouthpiece or the carrying case, so I still have those.  His plan is to strip off the horn's clear lacquer finish, take the horn all apart, administer a process he calls mastering to all the components of the instrument, convert the horn's fixed bell flare to a detachable screw-on style, & house the finished product in a high-end custom carrying case.  Yamaha YHR-667 is highly in demand, & the guy who bought mine to fix up already has a customer for it once it's mastered & customized.

Even though the Craig's List horn trader group is mostly for high-end instruments, I used it to put out word about my humbler double horn flippers anyway.  Can't hurt -- & maybe somebody out there is looking for a good quality French horn that's more affordable than those pricey top-line instruments.  Or maybe somebody will submit an entry that says _Hey, anybody out there got a Yamaha YHR-567 or an Amati-Denak double horn or a Selmer USA double?_ (or words to that effect).  You never know. 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## AwayWeGo

*French Horn Build-Up.*

For a while I was flipping horns just as quick as the brass instrument technician was fixing'm.  Then all summer, my 3 outstanding Conn 6D clones (made by companies other than Conn) sat gathering dust because nobody was interested. 

Just as The Chief Of Staff predicted, as soon as school started in September _-- BOOM ! --_ the moms & dads out there snapped up all 3 horns for junior & sis to play in school band.  

By then I snagged some more French horn rescue candidates, plus 2 other horns that needed only minor dent work.  In a flash, half of those likewise went to new homes -- so fast that The Chief Of Staff suggested maybe I'm pricing horns too low on eBay & Craig's List.  So I started raising my asking prices.  

Since then, I have acquired 2 more French horn "rescue" candidates, both C.G. Conn 6D double horns.  One needs minor dent repair plus cleaning.  The other is missing its leadpipe (the horn's farthest upstream piece of tubing, whose diameter tapers down to the opening where mouthpiece goes).  

Fortunately, just yesterday somebody on eBay was offering C.G. Conn leadpipes for 4D & 6D horns, so I snagged 1 of those at a ridiculous price.  All my horn repair expert will need in addition to that pipe is a few small connecting braces & supports that he'll be able to cannibalize off what's left of a Carl Fischer single horn that I left with him after he transplanted its bell assembly (bell flare + bell tail, 1 piece) onto another horn for me a few years back.  

When the 2 Conn 6Ds come back from repairs (in a few weeks), the French horn inventory ready to flip will rise to 5, unless I'm able to flip some of the current build-up before that.  We'll see. 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## AwayWeGo

*Old Dog.  Bizarre New Trick.*

After snagging an outstanding custom 2-piece French horn mouthpiece for a ridiculous eBay price, I photographed the screw rim (not my size) & offered it for sale on eBay.   (No bids yet.  So it goes.)

I'm keeping the mouthpiece base, which is an exact copy of what I've been using for about 20 years.  Can always use a back-up.  

So I called the custom shop that made the mouthpiece to order a new rim of the size I like.  The proprietor must have been feeling lonesome, because he wanted to chat -- about horns, about summer horn camp, about horn players, about horn playing, & I don't know what-all.  The 5 minute phone call went about 22 minutes.  No problem -- I'm just an old retired guy with nothing to do & nowhere to go & I enjoyed talking French horn with a recognized expert. 

During the conversation, I mentioned that 1 of my custom mouthpiece cups has scaly stuff stuck inside that I have been unable to clean out, so maybe I need to have the mouthpiece cup professionally replated (silver).  "Do you have a mouthpiece brush?" the guy said. 

"Sure," I said.  "Didn't do any good."

"OK," the guy said.  "Here's what you do.  Get some Lysol Toilet Bowl Cleaner -- got go use Lysol, not some other brand.  Soak the mouthpiece in that for 30 minutes.  Then clean the inside with your mouthpiece brush & rinse thoroughly in plain water."  

"Won't that hurt the silver plating?" I said. 

"No -- it'll be fine," he said.  "The founder's son discovered that Lysol Toilet Bowl cleaner is about 4% some acid that takes care of scale.  Works great on mouthpieces.  Try it & see."  

When I was at the supermarket yesterday, I bought a 2-pack of Lysol Toilet Bowl cleaner (on sale).  Came home & poured some into a narrow plastic cup, dropped in the scaly mouthpiece, set the timer for 30 minutes.  When the timer beeped, I took the mouthpiece out of the deep-blue cleaning product, brushed it out, rinsed it well, looked inside, & saw that the cup was shiny clean & bright all the way to the narrow throat of the mouthpiece.  The silver finish was OK -- gleaming like new inside & out.   Who'd a-thunk ? 

That bizarre cleaning procedure worked so well that I tried it on 2 more horn mouthpieces.  

After that, I used the cleaning product to clean the toilet bowl.  

Waste not, want not. 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## Passepartout

Handy tip, that. We have had some flower vases that get hard-water and who knows what gunk in 'em. I just fill with hot tap water to about where the gunky insides are covered than drop a few denture cleaning tablets in and leave 'em overnight. Usually a bottle brush swirls them nice and clean. Sometimes it takes a second dose. I don't think I'd use the solution for it's intended purpose though after cleaning vases.

Jim


----------



## MULTIZ321

Passepartout said:


> Handy tip, that. We have had some flower vases that get hard-water and who knows what gunk in 'em. I just fill with hot tap water to about where the gunky insides are covered than drop a few denture cleaning tablets in and leave 'em overnight. Usually a bottle brush swirls them nice and clean. Sometimes it takes a second dose. I don't think I'd use the solution for it's intended purpose though after cleaning vases.
> 
> Jim



Jim, Thanks for the laugh.

Alan, great story - I'm glad his solution worked on your mouthpieces.

Best regards,

Richard


----------



## AwayWeGo

*Waste Not, Want Not.*




AwayWeGo said:


> After snagging an outstanding custom 2-piece French horn mouthpiece for a ridiculous eBay price, I photographed the screw rim (not my size) & offered it for sale on eBay.   (No bids yet.  So it goes.)


After a week, people started bidding. The winning bid for the rim alone was roughly double the amount that I paid for the rim + base together.  The winning bidder paid instantly via PayPal.  I sent the rim via USPS today.  (I'm keeping the base, & in fact just now ordered a new rim in my preferred size.)

Earlier, I noticed that a beat-up old mouthpiece which came with a Craig's List horn that I bought recently was marked with the name of a famous Chicago horn maker whose products are highly regarded.  I cleaned up the mouthpiece, photographed it, & put that on eBay.  After a few days, it started getting bids.  When time ran out, bidders had run the price of the mouthpiece up to approximately 1/3 of the amount that I paid for the Craig's List horn + carrying case + mouthpiece. 

Unfortunately, the winning mouthpiece bidder is in South America & has not paid yet.  eBay offers an international shipping option for smallish items up to $350 or so in value -- seller sends the item to an address in Kentucky & eBay takes it from there -- but I did not check that option when I put the mouthpiece on eBay.  Unlikely it's possible to sign up for that retroactively.  Not sure how this will work out.   

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## AwayWeGo

*New (To Me) Internet Resource For Buying & Selling Brass Instruments.*

Brass Exchange Dot Com. 

Click here.

_Full Disclosure*:*_  I listed 3 French horns + 1 trumpet & 1 trombone on their _Trading Post _section yesterday. 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## AwayWeGo

*Craig's List Miscellany.*

Somebody in Kansas City MO has a Craig's List French horn ad running that's illustrated by a picture snaked off my Washington DC Craig's List French horn ad.  

I'm going to let it slide.  

Why ? 

Because last month I sold an Ian Desmond bobble-head figure via Craig's List using photos I snaked off somebody else's Craig's List ad.  

What goes round comes round. 

Meanwhile, somebody over in Maryland advertised a beautiful non-working no-name French horn on Craig's List yesterday & today at a price low enough that I should be able to flip it after repairs.  So I called'm up & arranged to go over & get the horn.  Just now got home with it.  

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## AwayWeGo

*Zombie Frankenstein French Horn Rescue Instrument.*




AwayWeGo said:


> Fortunately, just yesterday somebody on eBay was offering C.G. Conn leadpipes for 4D & 6D horns, so I snagged 1 of those at a ridiculous price.  All my horn repair expert will need in addition to that pipe is a few small connecting braces & supports that he'll be able to cannibalize off what's left of a Carl Fischer single horn that I left with him after he transplanted its bell assembly (bell flare + bell tail, 1 piece) onto another horn for me a few years back.


The horn that was missing its leadpipe came back from repairs today with its new leadpipe installed & all its dents smoothed out & any other issues resolved.  It is not only good to go, it is already on Craig's List. 

In describing it to the Craig's List crowd, my inclination was to type that it's a zombie Frankenstein _French Horn Rescue_ instrument, brought back to life & rebuilt with various brand-name parts & no-name parts.  The Chief Of Staff advised against that, reasoning that despite the appeal of that kind of language to oddball folks like me, that description is apt to repel more potential Craig's List customers than it could ever attract.  

I did not get where I am today by ignoring The Chief Of Staff's advice, so I wrote up a description of the horn in more conventional terms -- e.g., instrument was upgraded with replacement bell flare & bell tail, plus new Conn leadpipe (mouthpipe).  

The horn does look & play great, so we'll see how long it takes to find it a new home. 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## AwayWeGo

*Educating Would-Be Horn Buyers On eBay & Craig's List.*




AwayWeGo said:


> In the world of French horns, the standard professional models & advanced student horns ("double horns") are built in 2 keys -- F & B-flat.  All the sound comes out through just 1 large bell flare, & the air all goes in through 1 mouthpiece.  In between are 2 complete sets of partly parallel airways.  The player selects 1 or the other by using a thumb-operated 4th valve to pitch the horn in F or in Bb, whichever is needed to play the music best.  Each of 1-2-3 valves is made with parallel dual airways, 1 for Bb & another for F.  There are 2 sets of side by side valve slides -- the air detours that temporarily lengthen the horn when a valve lever is down.  There are 2 main tuning slides, Bb & F.  With all that extra hardware, a double horn is lots heavier than a single horn.


I have recently (i.e., starting today) begun adding a version of that description of double horns to my eBay & Craig's List French horn offerings.  Can't hurt.  Might help. 

Up till now I had just assumed the internet French horn shoppers out there already knew about double horns & single horns & B-flat horns & F horns & all that.  Now I have decided maybe they aren't all that well informed on the subject.  Could be that they mainly just harbor the (correct) idea that double horns cost more than singles without necessarily knowing why -- just that their children's horn teachers are talking about moving the kids up to double horns because of the good progress they've made learning to play their beginner single horns.

Now & then an eBay seller will describe as double horn some instrument that's clearly a 3-valve single horn, usually in F (sometimes B-flat).  Those sellers aren't necessarily trying to pull the wool over anybody's eyes.  They just don't know anything much about French horns other than that the good ones on eBay all seem to be labeled doubles, so they label theirs that way, too.  

To savvy & semi-savvy horn folks, the visible differences between single & double horns are obvious at a glance.  For 1 thing, double horns have 4 valves.  Singles have 3.  (Yes, some single horns have 4 valves & some doubles have 5 -- but those fortunately are the rarities.)  

Will be interesting to see whether adding a description of double horns to the ads will affect the responses -- also, to see whether other sellers will copy it & start using something similar with their offerings.  

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## AwayWeGo

*Semi-Quick Results.*




AwayWeGo said:


> I have recently (i.e., starting today) begun adding a version of that description of double horns to my eBay & Craig's List French horn offerings.  Can't hurt.  Might help.


Since adding that brief explanation of double horns to my eBay & Craig's List offerings, I have received 2 phone inquiries & 1 internet query about my double horns. One of the calls turned into a horn flip. 

The other 2 inquiries -- 1 phone + 1 E-Mail -- were from out-of-towners.  Not sure how they found my Craig's List horns -- One Craig's or some such, I suppose. 

Remains to be seen whether anything will come of those. 

Meanwhile, I'm set to pick up a newly repaired horn after rehearsal tonight, a beautiful but cheap no-name Chinese knock-off of Conn 8D that was not playable when I got it (stuck valves).  Will be interesting to find out how it plays after repairs. 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## AwayWeGo

*No-Name Chinese French Horn Now On Craig's List.*




AwayWeGo said:


> Meanwhile, I'm set to pick up a newly repaired horn after rehearsal tonight, a beautiful but cheap no-name Chinese knock-off of Conn 8D that was not playable when I got it (stuck valves).  Will be interesting to find out how it plays after repairs.


The horn plays OK -- not as well as my keepers, but definitely all right.  Good sound quality.   Decent horn.  Good value for money.    

I took pictures this morning & put the horn on Craig's List for sale.  

The Chief Of Staff thinks it will get snapped up pronto because it's so beautiful & priced so low.  

Hope she's right. 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## AwayWeGo

*Sent Message To Kansas City Horn Photo Rustler.*




AwayWeGo said:


> Somebody in Kansas City MO has a Craig's List French horn ad running that's illustrated by a picture snaked off my Washington DC Craig's List French horn ad.
> 
> I'm going to let it slide.


I'm not trying to make trouble for the person who used my Craig's List French horn photo for his Craig's List French horn ad, but today the devil did make me send an E-Mail message to the Kansas City guy, as follows *. . . *

The Selmer USA French horn shown in your Craig’s List ad is the horn I sold earlier this month — not another horn just like mine, but my actual Selmer horn that I sold.  You copied my photograph of my Selmer USA double horn & used that picture in your Craig’s List ad instead of using a picture of your own horn that you’re offering for sale.  

Maybe nothing is wrong with using a picture showing an item that’s similar to what you’re selling, but there are problems in doing that.  For 1 thing, the horn I sold (shown in your ad) has USA silver dimes on the 1-2-3 valve levers — that’s not unique, but it is unusual.  Does your Selmer USA double horn have dimes on the valve levers? 

If I were using somebody else’s picture in a Craig’s List ad, at a minimum I would spell out that it’s a picture of a similar item rather than a photograph of the actual item that’s for sale.  

I have not (yet) informed Craig’s List of the photo borrowing, but that’s still an option.  I think you should take pictures of your horn that’s for sale & use those in your Craig’s List ad.  If you keep using the picture of my horn that I sold, you should mention in your ad that it’s not the actual horn you’re selling but 1 somebody else sold that looks like yours. 

Will be interested to see whether (a) I get an E-Mail response, or (b) the guy puts a different picture in the Kansas City Craig's List French horn ad.

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## ronandjoan

AwayWeGo said:


> Somebody in Kansas City MO has a Craig's List French horn ad running that's illustrated by a picture snaked off my Washington DC Craig's List French horn ad.
> 
> I'm going to let it slide.
> 
> -- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​



Very interesting sagas about your horn flipping and the photo situation, wonder if the guy will write back. 

My photos from the Townhouses at St Augustine beach and Tennis Resort (TAS) have been copied for years in eBay and other ads... Always surprised to see them pop up


----------



## AwayWeGo

*French Horn Rescue, 2015.*




ronandjoan said:


> Very interesting sagas about your horn flipping and the photo situation, wonder if the guy will write back.


No word so far from the Kansas City Craig's List horn photo rustler.  But his ad is still running -- with my horn photo. 

Meanwhile, today I snagged my 1st _French Horn Rescue_ candidate of 2015 via eBay -- _Buy It Now Or Make Offer._  I made a semi-lowball offer.  The seller said OK. 

If the horn gets delivered before we take off for Florida later this week, then maybe I can get it into the hands of my horn fixer before we go.  If that happens, it could be ready to flip when we get back.  We'll see. 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## AwayWeGo

*I Love It When A Plan Comes Together.*




AwayWeGo said:


> If the horn gets delivered before we take off for Florida later this week, then maybe I can get it into the hands of my horn fixer before we go.


Badly damaged French Horn Rescue instrument was delivered this afternoon via UPS.  I just now got back from taking it over to my regular horn fixer.  He noted its rough condition but said it's all there & the job of getting it into decent shape should not be all that difficult.  (Easy for him to say.  I'd never be able to do it myself.) 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## pedro47

AwayWeGo said:


> Badly damaged French Horn Rescue instrument was delivered this afternoon via UPS.  I just now got back from taking it over to my regular horn fixer.  He noted its rough condition but said it's all there & the job of getting it into decent shape should not be all that difficult.  (Easy for him to say.  I'd never be able to do it myself.)
> 
> -- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​



I am so happy you rec'd your French Horn before your Florida trip. Man tonight,it is cold in Coastal Virginia. The Arctic winds are blowing right now.


----------



## AwayWeGo

*Are You Ready For A Plastic Tuba ?*




AwayWeGo said:


> More recently, they've added a smaller instrument in higher pitch (E-flat) to their plastic trombone line-up -- an alto or mini P-Bone.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- hotlinked --​


It had to happen -- a full size all-plastic tuba, fully functional with robust sound.  Just the thing for an ensemble featuring plastic trumpets & plastic trombones. 

Click here for a brief U-Tube video of a plastic tuba demonstration. 

What'll they think of next ? 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## AwayWeGo

*French Horn Rescue 2015.*

Just as it's easier to buy timeshares than to sell'm, it's likewise lots easier to buy French horns than to flip'm.  

So far in 2015 I have bought eight _-- 8 --_ _French Horn Rescue_ candidates (all via eBay) & have flipped exactly 1 (via Craig's List).  

The horn that flipped is a King (Cleveland) double horn that plays great & looks OK.  It's the horn that I handed off to the horn fixer before going to Florida for 2 weeks.  

The remaining 7 consist of . . . 
1 Brasswind double horn
3 Conn 6Ds (the Toyota Corolla of the French horn world), 
1 no-name copy of Conn 6D (made by York, I'm guessing)
1 upscale Yamaha YHR-667D
1 Schmidt-model York double horn.  (Schmidt model means the 4th valve, instead of matching the other 3 rotary valves, is a sideways mounted trumpet-style piston valve, operated by the left thumb.)  

The Brasswind double horn is all squared away & ready to go, in great condition, near-pristine, hard to tell from new.   

The horn currently on the repair technician's workbench is 1 of the Conn 6Ds.  Next in line when that one's done is the Yamaha YHR-667D.  After that, the York-Schmidt.  Then the no-name Conn 6D copy, leaving for last the 2 remaining genuine Conn 6Ds -- assuming the devil doesn't make me buy more _French Horn Rescue_ candidates before then. 

Is this a great country or what ?

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## AwayWeGo

*The Devil Wastes No Time.*




AwayWeGo said:


> The horn currently on the repair technician's workbench is 1 of the Conn 6Ds.  Next in line when that one's done is the Yamaha YHR-667D.  After that, the York-Schmidt.  Then the no-name Conn 6D copy, leaving for last the 2 remaining genuine Conn 6Ds -- assuming the devil doesn't make me buy more _French Horn Rescue_ candidates before then.


Well, that didn't take long. 

The devil made me spring for a nice eBay Yamaha YHR-567 that was delivered just now from California via USPS.  I know it was the devil, because I overpaid by a few hundred bux.  I still might be able to flip it for a little something, maybe.  We'll see. 

Meanwhile, the outstanding upscale Yahama YHR-667 that I mentioned last time is back from repairs & ready to go.  I plan on photographing it for Craig's List (etc.) within the next few days.  Meanwhile, I'll play it at band rehearsal tonight & at brass ensemble rehearsal Saturday morning (weather permitting).  

Currently on the repair technician's workbench is a rare & wonderful Schmidt-model York double horn.  Schmidt-model means the 4th valve is a sideways-mounted trumpet-style piston valve instead of another horn-style rotary valve.  Schmidt, York, King, Conn, & Yamaha made horns of that design for a while.  (Maybe others too that I don't know about.)  I don't think anybody's making'm like that now.  Why not, I don't know.

Fighting back against the devil's temptations to overpay for even more _French Horn Rescue_ candidates, I have some eSnipe lowball bids currently pending -- lowball at the risk of losing out rather than succumbing to the devil again so soon. 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## AwayWeGo

*Beating The Devil.*

Yamaha YHR-667D is gone.  Flipped.  Out of here.  It set a new speed record between the time it went on Craig's List this morning & the time it went out the door this afternoon -- not that speed is a goal.  Obviously, the price was too low. 

Even so, proceeds from the YHR-667D will offset most of the acquisition cost of my remaining 2015 candidates for _French Horn Rescue_ -- 2 more Conn 6Ds, 1 no-name 6D clone, Yamaha YHR-567, York-Schmidt, & I don't know what-all.

Next up, Schmidt-Model York double horn that's currently on the professional horn fixer's workbench.  Plus, I have 1 nice Conn 6D & 1 newish Brasswind horn all ready to go & currently offered on Craig's List.

But the devil has not been sleeping.  In fact, the devil recently made me spring for an eBay Holton Farkas double horn.  With just a few minutes to go, I was within 1 increment of getting outbid.  To my mild surprise, my semi-lowball bid stood up & the French Horn Rescue Holton Farkas model horn is now en route. 

Is this a great country or what ? 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## AwayWeGo

*Plastic Trombone [Overdubbed] Quintet.*




AwayWeGo said:


> Click here for a brief U-Tube video of a plastic tuba demonstration.


Click here for a trombone quintet performance of _Don't Stop Believing_ played on plastic trombone.

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## nightnurse613

Alan, I am sure I have mentioned how much I enjoy reading your witty repartee but, in case I haven't; let me do so now.  I confess I don't much know or care about french horns (although they can sound pretty) but I feel your passion and reading your comments always seem to brighten my day.  I hope I can enjoy them for many more years....


----------



## AwayWeGo

*Thank You.*




nightnurse613 said:


> Alan, I am sure I have mentioned how much I enjoy reading your witty repartee but, in case I haven't; let me do so now.  I confess I don't much know or care about french horns (although they can sound pretty) but I feel your passion and reading your comments always seem to brighten my day.  I hope I can enjoy them for many more years.


Thanks -- that's really nice.  It's why I put stuff on TUG-BBS, not for compliments but for the kind of fun person-to-person connection we get here. 

All week I've been practicing bejabbers out of my part for a jazzy Stan Kenton number full of tricky rhythms, practicing & getting better at it in preparation for Saturday morning Cathedral Brass rehearsal.  (Yes, it's a church-based musical group, but we won't go to hell for playing jazzy tunes sometimes.)   

After we ran through the Kenton number, the leader said the group as a whole is making progress backwards on that tune so he's dropping it from the playlist for now.  (Shux.)  

Even though he meant the group as a whole, I felt like my individual struggles with the tricky jazz licks are why the leader cut the piece.  I _know_ that's not it, but it _feels_ like it is it.  In all cases & every circumstance, my conscience declares me guilty till proven innocent & that goes for playing my horn part right along with all the rest. 

After rehearsal, a high school student & her mom came over to look at my Craig's List horns.  The girl played -- sounded really good.  The mom & I haggled.  Maybe they'll be back for a horn, I don't know. 

Later, the devil made me check Craig's List to see if any other French horns are being offered.  Whoa -- somebody out in the next county was offering a beautiful Yamaha double horn at a single horn price.  The model number given was for a Yamaha single horn but the photograph showed a Yamaha double.  By phone, I asked the seller if the horn he's selling is the 1 in the photograph, because the horn pictured doesn't look like the model number given.  "Yes," he said, "The French horn in the picture is what I am selling."

OK then. 

I arranged to go see the horn, with intent to buy if it was the horn in the photo.  After an hour on the road, The Chief Of Staff & I pulled into the driveway, got out, & knocked on the door.  A man answered, let us in, & showed us a beautiful Yamaha YHR-314 single horn in F.  "That's not the horn you showed on Craig's List," I said.  "Look -- here's your ad on my cell phone. Look at the picture -- 4 valves, brown Yamaha horn case.  Look at your horn -- 3 valves, black Yamaha horn case.  You said you're selling the horn shown in the picture but you're selling a different horn altogether."  

The guy fumbled & stumbled, offering the lame excuse that his cell phone is not working right, plus he has ear trouble & can't hear so well.  (Yeah, right.)  

_The Chief Of Staff_ was steamed, bigtime, & sternly advised the guy to get his horn picture squared away before anybody else calls in response to his ad.  I said little or nothing, ready just to leave & get back in the car to drive back home an hour away.  

Wild goose chase.  So it goes. 

It wasn't all for nothing.  We shopped at Wal-Mart on the way home, got some nice stuff, & enjoyed an otherwise nice afternoon.  If some Craig's List deal looks too good to be true, then chances are it's untrue after all -- same with French horns as with timeshares.  We knew that before we set out, so we took it in stride when it didn't pan out.  

Sometime today, after Cathedral Brass rehearsal but before the Craig's List French horn fiasco, I realized that over the past 10 years I have come to enjoy horns & horn playing (also horn flipping) more while enjoying timeshares & timesharing less -- not exactly sure why.  

The Chief Of Staff & I still love timeshare vacationing.  I'm still a major serious TUG fan & TUG-BBS enthusiast.  But as for timeshare ownership & the ins & outs of the timeshare game, well *. . .* 

John Chase's death hit us harder than we were prepared for; our timeshare enthusiasm was wrapped up more in our friendship with John than we realized while he was alive.  Plus, we're solidly settled into being old folks now (not that there's anything wrong with that).  By contrast, when we got into timeshares, we were still just late-late middle-age.  Things change.  Something's lost.  Something's gained.  Nothing stays the same. 

So I really, really appreciate it when stuff I type on TUG-BBS strikes a chord with people.  The interaction & participation here are super.   FaceBook is wide.  TUG-BBS is deep. 

Thanks again for making contact. 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## AwayWeGo

*The Horns, They Keep On A-Flipping.*




AwayWeGo said:


> I really, really appreciate it when stuff I type on TUG-BBS strikes a chord with people.  The interaction & participation here are super.   FaceBook is wide.  TUG-BBS is deep.


Last week a grandfather chose 1 of my nicer horns (a semi-rare model) as a gift for his granddaughter.  Yesterday, a 6th grader who chose a nice double horn in January returned (with his dad) for another nice double horn, a solid & reliable Conn 6D.  (His dad & his horn teacher were with him in January.)

I have described Conn 6D as the Toyota Corolla of the French horn world -- very popular, solid, reliable, sturdy, been on the market a long time, lots & lots of'm are out there, & they're still being made.

Conn 6D is marketed these days as a student-grade instrument, even though for a long time it was the top professional model in C.G. Conn's line-up of French horns.  The introduction of a more expensive "pro" model (Conn 8D) did not dminish the quality or playability of Conn 6D.

Meanwhile, I signed up with the French Horn Trader group on FaceBook.  Have not flipped any horns that way (yet), but I have received some nibbles -- plus contact from 1 person who wanted my outstanding Yamaha YHR-667D but asked about it just about an hour too late -- after it went to a professional horn player & teacher in the Midwest who spied my Craig's List ad for the horn.  The horn went on Craig's List on a Friday morning & was on a FedEx Ground truck headed to the heartland that same Friday afternoon.  (Obviously I priced it too low.  Live & learn.)  

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## riverdees05

Our Grand daughter that lives with us in playing trumpet in band, she will be in 8th grade and has been playing for 2 years.  She is wanting a silver trumpet, any recommendations?


----------



## AwayWeGo

*There Is No Substitute For Quality.*




riverdees05 said:


> She is wanting a silver trumpet, any recommendations?


Stick with the known quality brands -- Yamaha, Bach, Holton, Conn, Kanstul, Benge, Schilke, Selmer, Getzen, Olds, King, Blessing, Jupiter, Besson, Boosey & Hawkes, Courtois, Couesnon, Carl Fischer, Buescher, Reynolds, etc.  

Shun the Chinese no-names & knock-offs -- i.e., avoid Selman, E.F. Durand, Mendini, Venus, Roy Benson, Jean Baptiste, Berkeley, Parrot, Allora, Merano, Tristar, Simba, etc. 

Good luck. 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## riverdees05

Any recommended music stores or dealers?


----------



## AwayWeGo

*eBay All The Way.*




riverdees05 said:


> Any recommended music stores or dealers?


I get virtually all my instruments via eBay & Craig's List.  

I know what I'm looking for & I can usually recognize a horn with potential when I see it even if I'm not looking for that particular instrument.  (Plus, I never buy anything new except toothbrushes & underwear, but that's another story.) 

For discounted new instruments via internet, try Woodwind & Brasswind.

_Full Disclosure*:*_  I have bought miscellaneous music accessories from Woodwind & Brasswind (mouthpieces, instrument cases, etc.), but not any instruments.  

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## ronandjoan

riverdees05 said:


> Our Grand daughter that lives with us in playing trumpet in band, she will be in 8th grade and has been playing for 2 years.  She is wanting a silver trumpet, any recommendations?




HI
to help you narrow the field a little, our Natalie suggested the following brands:  Yamaha, Bach and Jupiter.

Alan (Away We Go) knows her and "follows" her career with us- your daughter will enjoy hearing her on youtube, search for Natalie Dungey

(She's already a professional, people are already writing pieces for her, been to Japan for 5 weeks in 2012, playing pieces written for her, went to Vienna and Denmark and Australia last year -- she's just turned 16)  (You can check out our BLOG for photos, too)


----------



## ronandjoan

riverdees05 said:


> Our Grand daughter that lives with us in playing trumpet in band, she will be in 8th grade and has been playing for 2 years.  She is wanting a silver trumpet, any recommendations?



BTW, we bought our son a Bach silver 25th Anniversary trumpet when he was in 8th grade, and it changed his life, in that he said, upon opening it up: "I dedicate myself to this instrument."

His high school music teacher said, "I always recommend getting the best instrument possible for students!"

Yes, it worked...he majored in trumpet in college and teaches band and trumpet (brass) now and of course, his children play brass instruments!
see 
http://www.ronandjoanjourney.blogsp...00-08:00&max-results=7&start=13&by-date=false


----------



## AwayWeGo

*That's About The Size Of It.*




ronandjoan said:


> BTW, we bought our son a Bach silver 25th Anniversary trumpet when he was in 8th grade, and it changed his life, in that he said, upon opening it up: "I dedicate myself to this instrument."
> 
> His high school music teacher said, "I always recommend getting the best instrument possible for students!"
> 
> Yes, it worked...he majored in trumpet in college and teaches band and trumpet (brass) now and of course, his children play brass instruments!
> see
> http://www.ronandjoanjourney.blogsp...00-08:00&max-results=7&start=13&by-date=false


Getting a good instrument is excellent advice.  Inferior instruments make it flat-out harder to play, period.  

Around here, some of the music teachers refer to those no-name Chinese knock-offs as "instrument-shaped objects" rather than true musical instruments.  Most of the knock-offs don't hold up, so they're not only hard to play but also difficult or impossible to repair. 

Eventually the Chinese will get the hang of reliable quality control in the production of wind instruments.  Already there are some top-quality high-end horns & clarinets being made in China, but only from a few boutique instrument makers, & not in large volume.  Plus, those upscale Chinese instruments are anything but cheap, unlike the Chinese _el cheapo_ "instrument-shaped objects."

In a way, Jupiter instruments (which have an OK reputation) can be considered Chinese.  They are made in Taiwan.  

I don't know for sure, but I have heard that Yamaha & even Bach (Selmer) have some of their student-line instruments made under contract in China.  If so, that's another indication that at least some Chinese instrument manufacturing is improving. 

In a generation or so, the mainland Chinese instrument makers just might catch up with Yamaha (Japan) & Jupiter (Taiwan).  Who knows ?

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## ronandjoan

AwayWeGo said:


> cheapo[/I]
> 
> I don't know for sure, but I have heard that Yamaha & even Bach (Selmer) have some of their student-line instruments made under contract in China.  If so, that's another indication that at least some Chinese instrument manufacturing is improving.
> 
> 
> 
> -- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​



Maybe they should look for older Bachs and Yamahas then that would not be made by the Chinese.


----------



## AwayWeGo

*eBay All The Way.   (Also Craig's List.)*




ronandjoan said:


> Maybe they should look for older Bachs and Yamahas then that would not be made by the Chinese.


That's what I would do.  

Plus, I would not rule out older good quality trumpets by Holton, Getzen, Selmer, Conn, etc. -- would rather have any of those (including Bach & Yamaha) than Jupiter. 

If a trumpet teacher is in the picture, then it's a great idea to get advice from the teacher on which instrument to select.   

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## AwayWeGo

*Fringe Benefit Of Horn Flipping.*




AwayWeGo said:


> The horn that flipped is a King (Cleveland) double horn that plays great & looks OK.


The new owner of that horn came to see it with his father and his horn teacher.  The teacher, who got here ahead of father & son, checked out & play-tested both horns I was offering at the time.  She preferred the same 1 that I preferred -- the horn that the kid also preferred after trying both.  So that's the 1 he took.  

After the horn flipping business was done, the teacher & I started talking French horn.  She asked what groups I play in & I told her.  I asked if she would be interested in substituting for me in some of my ensembles some time in case of travels, schedule conflicts, etc.  Her response was Yes, definitely.  We exchanged phone numbers & E-Mail addresses & that was that. 

All that was tack in January 2105.  

Fast forward to last week.  Cathedral Brass was getting ready for its _Celebration Of Jazz_ concerts in Falls Church VA & Vienna VA.  The day before dress rehearsal, one of our Cathedral Brass horn players was hospitalized on an emergency basis for a serious condition that landed her in ICU.  We had to come up with a short-notice substitute horn player -- and not just any horn player, but 1 skilled enough to handle 2 demanding performances of some challenging music with just 1 rehearsal.  

After striking out with all the members of our informal French horn network, I remembered the kid's horn teacher from January -- contacted her via E-Mail & phone message saying we needed a substitute player urgently, & giving the times & dates & places of the rehearsal & performances.  

Pretty soon she got back to me & said OK.  She initially thought she could only do the Thursday dress rehearsal & the Saturday concert, expecting to be unavailable for Sunday because of a prior commitment.  As it turned out, however, she was able to pack up fast after her earlier Sunday gig & rush to our Cathedral Brass performance, arriving just in time Sunday afternoon.  

As expected, she played great -- caught on to the music right away & did a splendid job filling in for our missing player.  (The ailing hornist is back home from the hospital now, but forbidden from playing horn & doing anything strenuous for another few weeks.  So it goes.)   

Meanwhile, the teacher's student who bought 1 of my French Horn Rescue instruments in January likes that horn so much that he got his dad to bring him over for another 1 (a Conn 6D) that I had on Craig's List in March.  Now he's got 2 -- 1 for school & 1 for home, I suppose.  (I didn't ask.  By me, he can buy all the French horns he wants, for any reason.)

Is this a great country or what ? 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## MULTIZ321

Hi Alan,

Thanks for the update. I lthink a lot of us live vicariously through your stories.

Many bring a smile to my face.


Best regards,


Richard


----------



## silentg

Nice story Alan!


----------



## jonmaiman

Alan,

   I also always enjoy your stories.

--Jon


----------



## AwayWeGo

*Carrying Case Rescue.*

No surprise that some _French Horn Rescue_ instruments arrive in carrying cases that have gone through lots of use & sometimes an added helping of abuse -- occasionally with missing handles, broken or missing latches, torn outer fabric covering, cracks or breaks in the outer shell, etc.  

When I get horn cases like that, I try to fix'm on a do it myself basis.  

Missing latches can be replaced by draw latches from the hardware store.  (Sometimes the replacement screw holes will line up with the originals, but not always.)  

I have not needed to replace any hinges -- yet.   

Missing handles can be replaced with OK handles off other carrying cases that are too far gone for repair -- like 1 I received that was totally smashed, with a wrecked horn inside it.  (Car crash, I'm guessing.)  The horn was fixed, installed in a different carrying case, & flipped.  The smashed case would have gone to Mt. Trashmore, except that its handle, some latches & hinges, & its plush interior lining & padding are OK, so I kept it as a source of parts.  (The handle off the smashed case fit fine on another horn case that lost its handle.)   

I have discovered that Elmer's Glue (or generic equivalent) does a good job on loose interior case linings & exterior fabric covering.  Not only that, it's good for sticking replacement fabric onto bare wood where the original covering is gone -- although the fabric surface is somewhat wrinkly after the glue dries.  

After using wood glue & clamps on an old horn case where there was a break, I covered the repaired break with fabric strips liberally coated with generic Elmer's Glue. That worked so well that I glued more fabric strips at corners & edges where bare wood was showing through, plus various spots here & there where bare wood was visible.  The finished product was good & solid. But it left the case looking truly strange because of all the glued on beige fabric strips patching the original dark grey-green surface, plus some old grey & black tape which was stuck on so well that I left it on. 

Even though a horn case is not a decorator item, The Chief Of Staff explains that the moms & dads out there considering a nice Craig's List French horn for junior or sis are apt to be turned off by a crummy looking carrying case for any "rescue" horn that I'm trying to flip.  So that solid but strange looking horn case was problematic because of its patchwork exterior.  

I solved the problem by using masking tape to shield the case's handle, latches, hinges, & brand name insignia, then spraying the whole exterior of the repaired case with Dupli-Color black truck bed liner spray in an aerosol can from Pep Boys.  An hour or so after spraying the case, I peeled off the masking tape from the shielded parts. 

The truck bed spray did not conceal the edges of the glued-on fabric, but it did give the whole carrying case a consistent & even dark, durable coating.  It's more like dull paint than what I think of as truck bed liner, but the overall effect is about as much improvement in appearance as I could expect.  The case for sure is not a decorator item, but it's sturdy & functional & now less of a potential turn-off for potential horn buyers.  

We'll see -- the "rescue" horn which was delivered in that case is lined up in the cue for repair alongside 3 more just like it (except in OK carrying cases), plus 2 others of different makes.  

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## vacationhopeful

I got a French horn in 6th grade. A bit tone deaf - love the sound but could not make the music. Gave the horn & case to my youngest sister when her eldest boy was looking for a instrument in middle school. Sister told me she gave the horn away 6+ years ago as her sons (the older two) had no interest .. to some causal friend/other student.

Just last weekend, I discovered my horn in her basement ... my youngest nephew found it and tries making noise ... it was laying out but looked in very good shape. 50 years old. So I picked it up and put some air into it --- sounded better than I remembered. Still can't play worth a darn.

It cost $375 when brought new ... my first (used) car brought 10 years later cost $600 ...

So, I too read your updates, Alan, and truly enjoy them. Thanks for the memories.


----------



## hsintang

Hi Alan,
Just came across your post about horns..  not quite expected in TUG forum but am interested in learning your experience buying/trading horns.  My son just finished his freshmen year in Jacobs music school in Indiana studying trombone performance.  He already owns a Shire, a Benge, a Conn, and is searching for an Urbie Green.  Now I see your posts, I can better understand why he continues his search for additional horns...
Do you have any advices to a budding musician?  Also do you have any comments on the Green horn?

thanks in advance,

Yvette


----------



## AwayWeGo

*I Used To Play Trombone But I Let That Slide.*




hsintang said:


> Do you have any advices to a budding musician?  Also do you have any comments on the Green horn?


For any musician young or old, the best advice is _practice, practice, practice_. 

Amateur musicians practice till they get it right.  

Professionals practice till they can't get it wrong. 

As for trombones, I don't know much about the various makes & models -- surely not to the degree that I have become familiar with the French horn family.  All the kinds you mentioned are well regarded -- those plus Edwards, I believe.

An Urbie Green trombone is a particular model by a top manufacturer named after a legendary jazz trombonist -- the way some baseball bat models are named after top major league sluggers.  There have also been trumpets named after top players like Doc Severinsen, Rafael Mendez, Maynard Ferguson, etc.  Holton French horns are named after Philip Farkas, Barry Tuckwell, Ethel Merker, etc.  Celebrity endorsements aren't everything, but they are not meaningless.  That is, top performers would not stand for having their names on inferior instruments, endorsement fees notwithstanding.  

Twenty years or so ago, way back before the days of flipping horns & _French Horn Rescue_, I bought a used but good condition Conn _Constellation_ model 48H trombone for $86 + tax at an estate sale.  The Chief Of Staff, who was a realtor at the time, sold the 48H to a real estate colleague for $350 or so, which he considered a major serious bargain.  

Conn, Olds, Yamaha, Bach, Holton, Courtois, etc. -- I guess those are still considered the good quality trombones. 

(Only kidding about formerly playing trombone.  Just couldn't resist the joke, which I stole from my brother.  BTW, I only learned within the past few years that the word _trombone_ is Italian, simply meaning _big trumpet_.  Who'd a-thunk?)

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## AwayWeGo

*Blowing My Own Horn.*




vacationhopeful said:


> I discovered my horn in her basement ... my youngest nephew found it and tries making noise ... it was laying out but looked in very good shape. 50 years old. So I picked it up and put some air into it --- sounded better than I remembered. Still can't play worth a darn.
> 
> It cost $375 when brought new .


I still have the horn that my parents bought me when I was 16.  They paid $350 for it, new.  

Thirty years later, I had it restored & modified & refinished by a top craftsman for about $3*,*000*. *  I'm still playing it today.  

An equivalent new horn from the same instrument maker today is about $6*,*500*.* 

Some of those instruments really hold up in value.  Makes me sad to see them all smashed & abused & neglected.  I guess that's why I get such satisfaction out of _French Horn Rescue_. 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## hsintang

AwayWeGo said:


> For any musician young or old, the best advice is _practice, practice, practice_.
> 
> Amateur musicians practice till they get it right.
> 
> Professionals practice till they can't get it wrong.
> 
> Conn, Olds, Yamaha, Bach, Holton, Courtois, etc. -- I guess those are still considered the good quality trombones.
> 
> -- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​



Hi Alan, thanks for the advices.  In terms of Green horn, I got the name mixed up.  He is searching for a Greenhoe trombone which is no longer in production.  If you come across one in the future, would you please PM me.  Thanks,
Yvette


----------



## AwayWeGo

*French Horn Build-Up -- Again.*




AwayWeGo said:


> Makes me sad to see them all smashed & abused & neglected.  I guess that's why I get such satisfaction out of _French Horn Rescue_.


When there is a lull in the flip rate of _French Horn Rescue_ instruments that have been fully repaired & are all ready to go, The Chief Of Staff says not to fret.  

She says interest will pick up when school starts, & again as Christmas nears.  

I hope she's right, because lately the horns are not flipping. 

Not only that, I have a backlog of wrecked & semi-wrecked horns -- all good quality doubles -- lined up waiting their turn for repair.  

So it goes. 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## AwayWeGo

*Not Easy Flipping Horns When I Turn Potential Buyers On To Somebody Else's Horns.*

Twice so far this summer, people have asked me about 1 of the outstanding French horns I'm currently offering on Craig's List.  On my recommendation, both of those people are buying outstanding pro-converted Conn 6D horns from Lanstro instead of buying any of mine.

Nothing is wrong with my horns.  The people whom I referred to Lanstro were thinking of having me ship a horn a long distance.  I said I would not want to sell the horns they were asking about to anyone who had not personally tried them out & decided to buy them.  By contrast, I would not hesitate to send an untried Lanstro pro-converted 6D to any horn player anywhere.

A Lanstro pro-converted Conn 6D is simply the best French horn for the money that it possible to buy anywhere.  Comparable production horns from Holton or Conn or Yamaha, etc., would cost 3-4 times what Lanstro charges for an outstanding pro-converted Conn 6D.

I bought my Lanstro-Conn via eBay in January 2014 as a shot in the dark.  Turned out to be comparable in playing qualities to my best "keeper" horns.  So now it's a keeper also. 

By E-Mail, I mentioned to the Lanstro proprietor that I have been sending recommendations & referrals his way.  He thanked me for that & provided his telephone number (which I could not spot on the web site).  He also mentioned that he now does Conn 6D pro-conversions only on order, because he now concentrates on making his own horns more or less from scratch.  He said that the 45+ 6D pro-conversions he did were along the lines of preparing & gaining experience for building his own horns.  More power to him. 

Meanwhile, I am backlogged with 4 "rescue" French horns that are good to go (& advertised on Craig's List) plus seven _-- 7 --_ more horns waiting their turn 1 at a time for repairs.  Also, 1 rescue horn has been at the repair shop about a month now & should be done before much longer. 

The backlog does not keep me from looking at more horns, from making lowball offers, or from sending in eBay bids.  It does, however, lower the amounts I'm willing to offer -- except for 1 of the horns awaiting repair for which I seriously overpaid, out of exuberance I suppose over a quick major horn flip at the time.  

_Mox nix._  Sooner or later all the rescue horns will flip.  If not, what's the harm ?

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## AwayWeGo

*School Is In Session.  Maybe The Horns Will Resume Flipping.  (We'll See, Eh?)*




> Twice so far this summer, people have asked me about 1 of the outstanding French horns I'm currently offering on Craig's List.


School is now in session for the 2015-16 academic year, & (sure enough) interest in "rescue" French horns has started to pick up, just as The Chief Of Staff said it would.  

Over the past weekend, I got 3 responses to my Craig's List ads from people asking about 3 different horns.  I was away for the Labor Day weekend, however, so I was not able to follow through other than by promising to call when I got home to set up convenient times for people to come look at the horns.  (I called.  Left the people messages.  Ball is in their court.)

I leave all musical instrument repair to the professionals, but I take on carrying-case rehab myself, as needed.  One of my "rescue" horns is housed in a now-sturdy case that had flimsy hinges till I went to work on it, installing 2 recycled hinges salvaged off a smashed newer horn case.  

Another horn case just needed a handle, so I bought a thrift-shop satchel for $1 & transplanted the handle off that onto the horn case.  Works great.  (New replacement handles cost lots more, even via eBay.) 

Waste not, want not. 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## ronandjoan

We know you ll be helping a lot of kids.  And we also know you have a lot of fun doing it!!!


----------



## silentg

I sent you the info on our company, for others interested, not a sales pitch
Just our website
www.firstchairbir.com
See us on facebook too 
FirstChair Band Instrument Repair!
Silentg


----------



## AwayWeGo

*Thank You.*




silentg said:


> I sent you the info on our company, for others interested, not a sales pitch
> Just our website
> www.firstchairbir.com
> See us on facebook too
> FirstChair Band Instrument Repair!
> Silentg


Nice to have the information.  Thanks. 

Maybe we'll meet some time at 1st Chair headquarters in St. Cloud FL. 

Thanks again. 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


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## silentg

That would be nice Alan!


----------



## AwayWeGo

*I Bought The Ugliest Horn On eBay.*

It's not all that ugly, just kind of garish because of the paint job -- base coat of gold & black, with red blotches here & there for texture, plus silver glitter paint on the leadpipe & outer valve caps & 1-2-3 valve levers.  Not bad looking, but nonstandard for sure -- even semi-attractive in an odd kind of way. 

You can see it via the eBay auction link, which will remain on the site for a while, then disappear.

Click here for the eBay "ugliest horn."  

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## AwayWeGo

*Ugly Is In The Eye Of The Beholder.*




AwayWeGo said:


> It's not all that ugly, just kind of garish because of the paint job -- base coat of gold & black, with red blotches here & there for texture, plus silver glitter paint on the leadpipe & outer valve caps & 1-2-3 valve levers.  Not bad looking, but nonstandard for sure -- even semi-attractive in an odd kind of way.


Before the end of the school year, a mom & her 11-year-old son came over to look at my "rescue" horns.  

After trying the 3 horns I had on Craig's List, the boy showed no enthusiasm -- was lukewarm about all 3.  

I said I had 1 more horn I could show him, an instrument which I had not put on Craig's List because I did not know how to advertise it.  "When you see it, you'll know why," I said.  That piqued their curiosity, so I brought out the oddly painted horn for the boy to try.  

The boy tried the painted horn & quickly discovered that it sounded & played better than the 3 more conventional looking horns he tried earlier.  His mother was unsure about the horn's looks, however, & quizzed the boy about whether he was positive he would not have a problem with the paint job.

"No," he said.  "I kind of like it."  

So we struck a deal for the ugly duckling horn, which not only equipped the boy with a decent instrument to learn on but also saved the family $300 or so by contrast with the other horns they had been considering (including mine).  

Is this a great country or what ?

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## tschwa2

*Trombone recommendations*

My 10 year old son is starting band this year playing the trombone.  The student rental is being delivered to school on Monday.  We are obligated for 3 months.  I know nothing about musical instruments.  Any recommendations for a brand or model that would be good for the first 2-3 years in the $200-$400 range?


----------



## AwayWeGo

*I Used To Play Trombone.  (But I Let That Slide.)*




tschwa2 said:


> My 10 year old son is starting band this year playing the trombone.  The student rental is being delivered to school on Monday.  We are obligated for 3 months.  I know nothing about musical instruments.  Any recommendations for a brand or model that would be good for the first 2-3 years in the $200-$400 range?


The respected brands are Yamaha, Conn, Holton, King, Jupiter, Getzen, Olds, Bach, etc.    

Unfortunately there are also lots of attractively priced trombones & other band instruments all over Amazon & eBay that are cheap junk even though they are brand new & look beautiful.  Steer clear of those & stick with the quality brands.

_Full Disclosure*:*_  I have an F.E. Olds trombone in your price range on Craig's List right now.  If you're interested in that, send private message or E-Mail & I will send you the internet link for that. 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## tschwa2

Thanks for the advice.  We are taking the 3 month rental and see what my son thinks.  Depending on how it goes, I might check with you in 2 months or so and see if you still have something.


----------



## AwayWeGo

_*Zombie Frankenstein French Horn !*_

The story is told on the internet at Mox Nix Blog . . . 

https://moxnix.wordpress.com/2017/03/01/zombie-frankenstein-french-horn/ 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


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## AwayWeGo

AwayWeGo said:


> *Bought Amati Double Horn, Received King Single Horn.  Next Up = Returna-Turna-Turna.*
> 
> The FedEx Ground truck pulled up in the circle this morning, as expected.  Inside the big carton left by the front door was the wrong horn.  Sheesh.
> 
> When I called the eBay seller to complain that the wrong horn had just been delivered, he said he was expecting my call because the buyer of the King single horn had already called saying he received my Amati double horn by mistake yesterday.
> 
> So, the seller said he is going to E-Mail me his FedEx Ground account information plus the name & address of the guy who bought the King single horn.  That way the King can go straight to its intended destination without detouring back through Lubbock TX.
> 
> Presumably something similar will be worked out at the other end to redirect the wayward Amati double horn to me.  We'll see.
> 
> Oh, the eBay seller also said he'll refund the shipping cost I paid, just to compensate for the mix-up.  We'll see about that too, eh?
> 
> -- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA. ​


It happened again -- different seller & different brand names but the same kind of French horn shipping mistake by another eBay volume seller.  

This time, after reaching agreement with seller on a "make offer" price, I bought a Buescher clone of Conn 6D (a 4-valve double horn). But the horn that was delivered today is a 3-valve C.G. Conn single horn. 

Via eBay, I sent the seller a message about the mix-up, offering to send the horn I received to its intended recipient if the seller will cover the shipping cost & get the person who received my horn to send that 1 to me.  That would involve less wasted motion than having both buyers return both horns to the seller for the seller to re-send, but it would also involve a certain amount of coordination, not to mention shipping payment by the eBay seller whose mistake caused the mix-up. 

According to eBay, the seller has till June 23 to come up with a satisfactory resolution.  

Meanwhile, I have more bent horns (mostly Conn 6Ds) lined up waiting their turns for French Horn Rescue on the repair technicians' workbenches.  

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


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## AwayWeGo

After 12 years (2006-2018), I'm into timeshares less & into French horns more.  Who would ever have thought ?

Last night, I won the eBay bidding on a Yamaha YHR-666N (nickel-silver version of YHR-666), an exceptionally good instrument that was in Yamaha's catalog 1981-85 only, a time when the company was offering a wide selection of production models, apparently so the marketplace could narrow down which would remain available & which would be discontinued.  Both versions of YHR-666 were dropped (despite or maybe because of their excellent playing characteristics -- better, by me, than 1 of their more expensive models still on the market).  That makes any surviving YHR-666N a rarity for a production horn from a large company -- & it makes me a rare bird in my own way for now owning two _-- 2 --_ of them after last night's eBay win. 

I bought my 1st YHR-666 in 1982 or so, new.  Played it while my Alexander 103 was out of commission, resold it when I got my Alexander 103 back from restoration & custom modification.  

When Osmun Brass offered their remaining stock of new YHR-666s on close-out, I bought 1 mainly because of the outstanding low price ($1,050 -- big bux back in 1985).  I gave that horn to my younger son, who played it in high school band & eventually sold it to spend the proceeds on a rock & roll electronic keyboard instrument.  (So it goes.) 

Fast-forward to 2006.  I spied a Yamaha YHR-666N on eBay -- 1st nickel-silver version I had even seen or heard of.  (Far as I was aware, they were all conventional clear-lacquered yellow brass.  Who knew?)  I put in a bid for the seller's opening amount under the assumption I would soon be outbid.  Instead, because that model had become unfamiliar even then, my minimum bid stood up & I bought the horn. The horn was -- is -- excellent.  It quickly became 1 of my keepers, alongside the custom-modified Alexander 103 & 2-3 others.  

Fast-forward again to last week.  Another example of Yamaha YHR-666N turned up on eBay.  I figured out my personal tipping point price -- the amount at which I would regret paying any more for it & simultaneously regret losing out if somebody else got it for that amount or less.  I entered an automatic last-second bid for that at HidBid Dot Com & let it go.  When the dust settled, I was the winning bidder -- at approximately $350 less than I was willing to go via HidBid.  (Semi-interesting side note is that I have never seen a yellow brass Yamaha YHR-666 on eBay or Craig's List, only nickel-silver YHR-666N -- twice -- on eBay.  And I bought both of'm.  BTW, nickel-silver does not contain any real silver.  Also called German silver, the alloy is basically silvery white brass, excellent for making French horns, etc.)

The dilemma now is what to do with the new YHR-666N once it gets here -- also what to do with the old YHR-666N, & how to explain to _The Chief Of Staff_ why I need 2 Yamaha YHR-666N French horns.  Once I figure out how to explain it to myself, explaining it to her will be a piece of cake. 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


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## Jan M.

Alan, as long as you aren't into tubas and don't know or contact/respond to our son I won't have to hunt you down and hurt you. Lol. 

Our son would be every bit as bad as you if he had the money. I purposely don't remember how many tubas I've paid for in addition to gig bags, cleaning and repair work. And I won't ever ask him because I would have to listen to the detailed list, description, how they played, who he bought them from, who he sold them to and how much he made on them. Our son is 31 years old and I am the easiest soft touch ever when he starts telling me about a tuba someone has for sale and what a great deal it is. I just paid for another one this year but told him that has to be the last one since my husband finally retired. He did offer to sell the one he already had to reimburse me for this one but I told him to hang onto it as they are both horns best suited to different purposes and he wouldn't be able to afford to replace it. I don't think he's ever actually fully paid for a single one he's had. Sometimes he just rolls the money he gets for selling one over into buying another one.

Our son sometimes plays at Christmas and Easter services for different churches and he gets paid for it. He plays in a local symphony too but that he doesn't get paid for.


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## Jan M.

Alan, I thought of you on Sunday. Our son drove his buddy from Olmsted Falls, OH to Rochester, NY, 278+ miles each way for his buddy to sell one of his tubas. Our son gets car sick very easily so he did all the driving. They stopped at Niagara Falls on the way back because his buddy had never seen the Falls. I don't know which one of them negotiated the sale but suspect our son likely had a hand in it. If you can't buy or sell one yourself, helping someone else is almost as good. Lol.


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## AwayWeGo

Jan M. said:


> If you can't buy or sell one yourself, helping someone else is almost as good.


I agree. 

A brass ensemble & concert band friend recently asked me to see if I can help his brother-in-law in Texas sell off a high-end French horn that the brother-in-law no longer plays.  I sent the brother-in-law an E-Mail message with some suggestions -- now waiting to see what happens.  

Now & then I spy an attractive horn on eBay or Craig's List that I think some of my horn playing friends might be interested in, so I forward the internet links to them.  Last year, one of the link recipients pounced on a nice Holton Farkas horn that was exactly what she wanted to take on a long trip (so she could have a nice horn with her but leave her treasured Yamaha YHR-668 safe at home).  

Later that same friend asked me to sell off her old cornet & a nice military bugle that she no longer wanted because she was downsizing before moving overseas.  She wanted the proceeds from the cornet & bugle to go to the City Of Fairfax Band.  So I took a bunch of nice pictures, advertised the instruments on Craig's List, negotiated with buyers, asked them to make their checks out to Fairfax Band, & sent the instruments -- win, win, win, win.  

More recently, another Fairfax Band friend, who still works full-time, asked me to sell off her old & no longer loved Conn 6D.  She knows I have some experience in flipping horns & I'm just an old retired guy with nothing to do & nowhere to go.  I got some repairs done to the 6D, installed the horn in a newish carrying case I had on hand, took pictures, put it on Craig's List & on the French Horn Trader section of FaceBook, & pretty soon found a buyer for my friend's horn.  After expenses (case upgrade, repairs, shipping, etc.), she ended up with way more than she was expecting. 

That went so well that she later asked me to sell her grandfather's old Selmer (Paris) trumpet from the 1930s.  It soon attracted a "make offer" buyer from Oklahoma who made an eBay offer acceptable to my friend, so that was another example of having fun by helping someone else sell an instrument. 

I need another French horn like a rooster needs knee sox, but that doesn't keep me from scanning eBay & Craig's List regularly in search of another overlooked diamond in the rough.  

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


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## AwayWeGo

The high-end French horn sold for about double what the owner was expecting for it.  New owner is a full-time professional horn player in a major city symphony orchestra.

Since then, a dozen or so other horns have been in & out of here, but it's not the same.  The main problem has been the retirement & death of my go-to horn fixer, who was a gem.  I tried others, with so-so results -- i.e., some fully successful repair projects & some others that did not turn out so well.  Recently, however, I connected with a professional horn player & horn fixer who does superb work at reasonable cost (not cheap, but reasonable), & who meets me halfway between his suburban Baltimore MD location & my suburban Washington DC location.

The actual flipping of fully repaired horns is not at a standstill, but the activity remains sluggish by contrast with the pre-covid horn flipping heyday.

Meanwhile, my granddaughter in Florida (age 11½) signed up for beginning band camp. The camp leader recommended she start on alto saxophone.  Fortunately her uncle (my son, who lives 1 mile from me) just happened to have a nice French-made F.E. Olds Parisienne alto saxophone in his instrument collection. He was willing to make that available, & even recorded a piece that he played on the Olds Parisienne to demonstrate how nice it sounds.  (Very nice.)

To make sure the old alto sax was in top condition for a beginner, I took it over to a local wind instrument fixer (who has also fixed some French horns for me), a former saxophonist in the United States Marine Band ("The President's Own").  That was on a Wednesday.  I explained that my granddaughter needed the instrument for band camp starting Monday morning.  He said he'd do his best to turn it around quick, & got it back to me all good to go the next afternoon. I packed it up pronto & took it to FedEx, which scheduled it for home delivery in Florida by close of business Saturday.  The package wasn't delivered till Sunday afternoon, but that was OK because it still got there in time for the start of band camp Monday morning.

Band camp lasted 2 weeks.  My granddaughter loved it.  She loves her alto saxophone.  She loves playing her alto saxophone.  She wants to continue with band camp if there's another session.  She wants to start taking individual lessons on alto saxophone.

Papa Alan is so pleased with her enthusiasm & progress that I'm already looking ahead.  If my granddaughter sticks with alto saxophone & gets good at it, there's no reason she has to limit herself to alto saxophone when she gets to high school band.  If she wants to (as many saxophonists do), she can branch out to tenor saxophone (the next larger size saxophone after alto sax).  Tenor sax might be a bit ungainly for a petite middle-schooler, but it should be manageable for an average to petite high school musician.  Shux, if she really takes to saxophone & gets good, there's no reason she couldn't also play soprano saxophone & baritone saxophone if she wants.

In view of all that, I checked Craig's List & found what looked like an OK tenor saxophone at a giveaway price out in the Virginia countryside about an hour from here.  I sent my sax-playing son a link to the ad.  After viewing it, he told me at that price it was a good deal regardless of its condition.  I made arrangements to go out & buy the tenor saxophone, & brought it home earlier this week.  It turned out to be a complete & playable Selmer (USA) Bundy II tenor sax.  My son tried it & liked it -- not as well as his own Selmer (Paris) Super Action 80 Series II tenor saxophone, but pretty well.

The plan is to keep the Selmer Bundy II tenor saxophone here & not even mention it to my granddaughter or her mother, but just to keep it on hand for the time when my granddaughter progresses musically & saxophonically to the point that she's ready to add tenor saxophone to her arsenal -- i.e., in a few years, if she stick with saxophone & becomes proficient.  There's every reason to expect that she will progress, but there's no reason to distract a newbie alto saxophone beginner with an added tenor saxophone right now.  Time takes time.

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


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## AwayWeGo

Granddaughter playing alto saxophone at the conclusion of summer band camp.



​-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


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## RX8

@AwayWeGo Alan, have you given up buying more French Horns?  Nothing since 2021?


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## AwayWeGo

RX8 said:


> @AwayWeGo Alan, have you given up buying more French Horns?  Nothing since 2021?


The covid-19 school band shut-down put a major serious damper on flipping French horns.  

Fortunately school & community bands are up & running once again, but flipping horns is still in the doldrums. 

So it goes.  

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


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