# Complaint From New HGVC Member



## Titandude (Oct 12, 2012)

I recently closed on purchasing a Hilton Club NYC 5,000 point timeshare on the resale market. We have frequent visits to NYC, so I thought it would be a good thing to do.

The previous owner paid the maintenance fee and club fees at the beginning of the year and used all the points before the property was transferred. Therefore, I have ZERO points until 2013.

Well...I received a $225 invoice in the mail for 2012 Club fees. I could understand paying the fee if I inherited some points, but there are ZERO points available. Here is my complaint:
1. Since the Club Fees were already paid for 2012 by the previous owner for this same property, isn't this DOUBLE-DIPPING?
2. Why am I billed for the ENTIRE year when I will only have the property for three months in 2012? Since the previous owner had already paid the fee, wouldn't it be more fair to only bill me on a pro-rated basis, if at all?
3. What about the poor souls who close on their timeshares in December? Do they have to pay 100% club fees for 2012 and then have to pay the fees again for 2013 one month later?
4. Wouldn't it be to the new buyers advantage to hold up the closing (If there are no points transferred) until after Jan.1, 2013?
5. Why was this fee not explained to me when I was purchasing the timeshare? I promise you that I would have waited until Jan 1st to close.

Is there a venue where I can file a formal complaint against the unfair club fees? I am a new member, and this is NOT the way to welcome me to the club! Thoughts?


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## chriskre (Oct 12, 2012)

I'm not sure what you can do about the club fee but why don't you call them and ask?    Maybe a supervisor can waive this years fee or pro-rate it for you.  

Since you own in NYC, you have access to open season rates in NYC if you pay your club fee this year, so if you are thinking of going to NYC or any of the other HGVC resorts this year it may not be that big of an issue if you are getting some benefit out of it.  You can also borrow ahead from next years allotment of points and do an exchange in RCI to snag something nice for this year.


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## Ron98GT (Oct 12, 2012)

Titandude said:


> I recently closed on purchasing a Hilton Club NYC 5,000 point timeshare on the resale market. We have frequent visits to NYC, so I thought it would be a good thing to do.
> 
> The previous owner paid the maintenance fee and club fees at the beginning of the year and used all the points before the property was transferred. Therefore, I have ZERO points until 2013.  That's Normal
> 
> ...



If they won't waive it, ask if they will at least pro-rate it. Doesn't hurt to ask.


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## Titandude (Oct 12, 2012)

chriskre said:


> I'm not sure what you can do about the club fee but why don't you call them and ask?    Maybe a supervisor can waive this years fee or pro-rate it for you.
> 
> Since you own in NYC, you have access to open season rates in NYC if you pay your club fee this year, so if you are thinking of going to NYC or any of the other HGVC resorts this year it may not be that big of an issue if you are getting some benefit out of it.  You can also borrow ahead from next years allotment of points and do an exchange in RCI to snag something nice for this year.



My vacation time for this year has been used up! I anticipated that I wouldn't need to use the timeshare or points until Jan 1st, 2013, when I have vacation time available again.

Since I first posted, I have found out that HGVC closings after Oct 1st are NOT required to pay the current year fee! If I had known this, I would have stalled the closing for a few weeks to make sure everything closed after that date. Seems like I beat it by a week or so!

I have indeed asked to talk with a supervisor, but nobody has returned my call for three days. I tried going through the Realtor that I used to buy the timeshare, and she has encountered brick walls. She told me that their attitude is "this is how we do it, so deal with it!".

Being a new member of HGVC who has yet to even plan the first vacation, I hope this is not indicative of how I will be treated in the future!


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## Titandude (Oct 12, 2012)

Ron98GT said:


> If they won't waive it, ask if they will at least pro-rate it. Doesn't hurt to ask.



If I can get a supervisor to call me back, I will do this!


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## sjuhawk_jd (Oct 12, 2012)

Titandude said:


> Being a new member of HGVC who has yet to even plan the first vacation, I hope this is not indicative of how I will be treated in the future!



I am sure you did your HW before deciding to buy into HGVC. None of that has changed due to this unexpected $225 bill. HGVC is a great system and you will enjoy it tremendously. I hope you are planning to go to New york each year, since these points are very expensive (in terms of Maintenance fees) to go anywhere else within HGVC. Consider this $225 as part of buying this timeshare and move on...


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## gnorth16 (Oct 12, 2012)

You still have all the benefits of the portal including open season, advanced reservations, 9 month at other resorts and RCI exchanges.  Just becuase you don't have 2012 points doesn't mean you can't benefit from the portal.  That is the reason you have to pay the dues.  Whether or not it is prorated is another story....


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## chriskre (Oct 12, 2012)

To be honest, with all the money you saved going resale, is it worth souring your new toy with anger over a measley $225?  

In the scheme of things you really bought a great system and a decent price.  Asking HGVC to bend over backwards to change the rules for you a johnny come lately to the club may be asking for a bit too much.  JMHO.  :ignore:

HGVC will treat you like a valued owner from now on.  Just consider it part of your purchase price and move on.


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## Titandude (Oct 12, 2012)

sjuhawk_jd said:


> I am sure you did your HW before deciding to buy into HGVC. None of that has changed due to this unexpected $225 bill. HGVC is a great system and you will enjoy it tremendously. I hope you are planning to go to New york each year, since these points are very expensive (in terms of Maintenance fees) to go anywhere else within HGVC. Consider this $225 as part of buying this timeshare and move on...



After paying almost $2,000 in closing costs using the HGVC closing company, I wasn't made aware of the additional $225 club fee that I would also be billed for separately. Had I been told that I would not have to pay the club fee for 2012 if I had postponed the closing for two weeks, I'm confidant that I would have done so.

I hope you are right about enjoying the relationship and facilities in the future. I have been excited about everything until this hiccup. All I'm asking for is fairness, which would be a least a pro-rated club fee for 2012 instead 100% of the yearly fee.


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## Titandude (Oct 12, 2012)

chriskre said:


> To be honest, with all the money you saved going resale, is it worth souring your new toy with anger over a measley $225?
> 
> In the scheme of things you really bought a great system and a decent price.  Asking HGVC to bend over backwards to change the rules for you a johnny come lately to the club may be asking for a bit too much.  JMHO.  :ignore:
> 
> HGVC will treat you like a valued owner from now on.  Just consider it part of your purchase price and move on.



Had I known about this fee upfront, I would not be complaining. I'm prepared to pay all of the "mentioned" fees once I start using the system.


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## chriskre (Oct 12, 2012)

Titandude said:


> After paying almost $2,000 in closing costs using the HGVC closing company, I wasn't made aware of the additional $225 club fee that I would also be billed for separately. Had I been told that I would not have to pay the club fee for 2012 if I had postponed the closing for two weeks, I'm confidant that I would have done so.
> 
> .



Now why would the seller tell you that?  Maybe they didn't even know about it or they just wanted to close already before you got buyers remorse.


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## geekette (Oct 12, 2012)

why aren't you trying to extract it from the seller, who did have 2012 usage?


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## Titandude (Oct 12, 2012)

geekette said:


> why aren't you trying to extract it from the seller, who did have 2012 usage?



They paid the club fees on the property at the beginning of the year. The Hilton club is double-dipping for club fees on the same property.


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## Titandude (Oct 12, 2012)

I'm new to HGVC, or owning any timeshare for that matter. If the 5,000 points for 2012 had been transferred with the property, would I have had to pay the 2012 maintenance fee again too?


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## PigsDad (Oct 12, 2012)

Titandude said:


> I'm new to HGVC, or owning any timeshare for that matter. If the 5,000 points for 2012 had been transferred with the property, would I have had to pay the 2012 maintenance fee again too?



No.  This difference is that maintenance fees are per unit, while membership fees are per member.

Kurt


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## gnorth16 (Oct 12, 2012)

Titandude said:


> They paid the club fees on the property at the beginning of the year. The Hilton club is double-dipping for club fees on the same property.



Not really since both of you have/had access to the portal and technically could reserve/reserved open season.  IMO Open season is one of the best advantages of HGVC.

I would be happy with the prorated fees...Get 'r done!

$2000 to close ???? Is there a larger transfer fee for NY?


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## Titandude (Oct 12, 2012)

gnorth16 said:


> Not really since both of you have/had access to the portal and technically could reserve/reserved open season.  IMO Open season is one of the best advantages of HGVC.
> 
> I would be happy with the prorated fees...Get 'r done!
> 
> $2000 to close ???? Is there a larger transfer fee for NY?



The closing fees in NYC are much higher than other places because of extra documents that must be signed and notarized by a local NY attorney. The transfer fee was $399, which I think is across the board on all HGVC properties. Hoping for the pro-rated fees!


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## Titandude (Oct 12, 2012)

PigsDad said:


> No.  This difference is that maintenance fees are per unit, while membership fees are per member.
> 
> Kurt



Ok! This makes sense.


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## Titandude (Oct 12, 2012)

Please understand that I'm not trying to cheat the system. I'm trying to understand the system and just be treated fairly.


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## sjuhawk_jd (Oct 12, 2012)

Titandude said:


> Please understand that I'm not trying to cheat the system. I'm trying to understand the system and just be treated fairly.



We understand that you are not trying to cheat anybody. No need to apologize, what we are saying is that paying this fee of $225 is not all that bad in the big scheme of things, especially the maintenance fees that you will be paying each year for this ownership. You did not buy this from HGVC, so they had no obligation to tell you the rule about Oct 1st cut-off date etc. Rules are what they are. If HGVC cuts you a break as per your wishes, then you will save about $165. I just do not think that you should judge HGVC based on how they handle your request. 

Wait till you see how these fees etc. are levied by Wyndham and other timeshare developers, then you will sing praises of HGVC.


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## Talent312 (Oct 12, 2012)

I can understand being irate about an unanticipated expense that could have been avoided. When I bought in, I knew there was an unpaid MF bill that would have to be settled (it was built into the purchase price), but no one thought to add in the late-fees (it was not I who was late). In the end, I coughed it up.  <sigh>

Yeah it bites, but hey, you do get to make use of your membership now... so plan ahead, book some stays stays now, even if they're for next year.


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## Sandy VDH (Oct 12, 2012)

If I recall correctly from previous discussions, HGVC will not waive this.  

You may not have points but you still have access to open, and you can borrow points so essentially you can book anything you want as soon as your online account is set up.

I would be surprised if you can get it reduced.


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## Titandude (Oct 12, 2012)

Talent312 said:


> I can understand being irate about an unanticipated expense that could have been avoided. When I bought in, I knew there was an unpaid MF bill that would have to be settled (it was built into the purchase price), but no one thought to add in the late-fees (it was not I who was late). In the end, I coughed it up.  <sigh>
> 
> Yeah it bites, but hey, you do get to make use of your membership now... so plan ahead, book some stays stays now, even if they're for next year.



Thanks everyone for your comments that are helping me understand this new system. I may have to "cough it up", but I would think that the Hilton Club would  not want an irate new client. Hopefully, things will get better from here!


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## Titandude (Oct 12, 2012)

Sandy VDH said:


> If I recall correctly from previous discussions, HGVC will not waive this.
> 
> You may not have points but you still have access to open, and you can borrow points so essentially you can book anything you want as soon as your online account is set up.
> 
> I would be surprised if you can get it reduced.



I do understand that apparently I'm at the Hilton Club NY's mercy! The club fee may not be reduced, but at least I'm trying. I haven't used the system yet, so I'm looking for my first positive experience!


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## sjuhawk_jd (Oct 12, 2012)

Titandude said:


> I do understand that apparently I'm at the Hilton Club NY's mercy! The club fee may not be reduced, but at least I'm trying. I haven't used the system yet, so I'm looking for my first positive experience!



Finding TUG is your first positive experience


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## ccwu (Oct 12, 2012)

PigsDad said:


> No.  This difference is that maintenance fees are per unit, while membership fees are per member.
> 
> Kurt



 I recently purchased 11,000 resale points of Hilton Club. I was informed that my HGVC member fee does not cover for Hilton Club member fee.  These are two difference clubs.  I have to pay additional $225 membership fee for Hilton Club as a HGVC member.  NYC Hilton Club is only opened for reservation for Hilton Club members.  I think the Hilton Club points can be used for HGVC resorts.


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## Jasmine658 (Oct 12, 2012)

*Separate club fee for NYHC for new owners*

I'm also a new owner at Hilton Club, & called last week to discuss future reservations by phone, and also asked about any on-line access. Found out NY Hilton Club has separate website: www.myhiltonclub.com. They set me up so could get on-line to check account.

After finally being able to log-in at myhiltonclub.com, I found a balance due for the club fees. Called to ask why not taken care of in the escrow, and they explained over phone it's completely separate, not handled by the escrow. Didn't think about it too much, just used my AmEx Hilton Surpass & paid it,  moving forward.


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## pianodinosaur (Oct 13, 2012)

sjuhawk_jd said:


> Finding TUG is your first positive experience



I agree with sjuhawk.  HGVC is a great system.  Learn how to use it and have some great vacations.  There are plenty of Tuggers ready to help.


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## Beefnot (Oct 13, 2012)

gnorth16 said:


> Not really since both of you have/had access to the portal and technically could reserve/reserved open season.  IMO Open season is one of the best advantages of HGVC.
> 
> I would be happy with the prorated fees...Get 'r done!
> 
> $2000 to close ???? Is there a larger transfer fee for NY?



Would be fairer if the double-dipped club fee were charged to the new owner only if he completes a transaction in this year. Other than that, doesn't hurt to be persistent in the attempt for proration.


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## semicycler (Oct 13, 2012)

As a member now you have access RCI, open season, and can borrow points from 2013 to book in 2012.

You just don't have any 2012 points.

But you didn't pay maintenace fees for any 2012 points either...


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## gnorth16 (Oct 13, 2012)

Beefnot said:


> Would be fairer if the double-dipped club fee were charged to the new owner only if he completes a transaction in this year. Other than that, doesn't hurt to be persistent in the attempt for proration.



How would HGVC know if he will make a transaction in the next three months???  He may or may not.  My only point is that he is being charged for the ability to use the system.  Kinda like my unlimited hot yoga membership.  I pay for the ability to use the facilities, whether I use it or not.  It's my loss if I don't use it to its fullest advantage (Which I have not - Used 3X in one month -too busy on TUG)

Semicycler - The MF's are directly linked to the use of points.  That is a separate issue.  You don't have to have 2012 points to be able to benefit from the club portal, especially since HGVC lets you borrow from future use.

If the fees were prorated (Which they should be), even using the portal once would be a greater benefit that the cost of the fees.

i'm not debating the prorated issue, just that the OP is being charged for the ability to use the HGVC benefits, which is tied to being an owner, not the points in a current year...


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## Beefnot (Oct 13, 2012)

gnorth16 said:


> How would HGVC know if he will make a transaction in the next three months???  He may or may not.



That was my point, it seems kinda weak to charge for the ability rather than actual usage in the year you acquire with no points to use.   They will know if he will make a transaction when he makes a transaction. I am not suggesting HGVC is not a great system, just this first year thing sucks.


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## Talent312 (Oct 13, 2012)

Beefnot said:


> ..._t seems kinda weak to charge for the ability rather than actual usage..._


_

If my DW's fitness center based her membership fee on actual use, the bill would be about $2.00.
But for some reason, they think she should pay the full amount. <sigh>
._


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## PigsDad (Oct 13, 2012)

Beefnot said:


> That was my point, it seems kinda weak to charge for the ability rather than actual usage in the year you acquire with no points to use.   They will know if he will make a transaction when he makes a transaction. I am not suggesting HGVC is not a great system, just this first year thing sucks.



It's a _membership _fee, not a _usage _fee.  If you are a member, you pay, whether you use it or not.  Seems pretty simple to me.

As to it being pro-rated, it would be nice but I understand they have to draw the line somewhere.

Kurt


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## Beefnot (Oct 13, 2012)

Talent312 said:


> If my DW's fitness center based her membership fee on actual use, the bill would be about $2.00.
> But for some reason, they think she should pay the full amount. <sigh>
> .



Funny, funny, doofus, I was only talking about the first year which the new member is paying full freight for "crippled" benefits.


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## Sandy VDH (Oct 13, 2012)

Historically they have not seen it as prorated.  You are a member in 2012 your pay the annual fee.

If you don't want to pay, in the future I would recommend to anyone to purchase something in late Nov early Dec with the hope that they are not speedy on the close and register.  So when it does finally does register it is in January and then you feel you might get use of the entire years membership fee.


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## SmithOp (Oct 13, 2012)

Sandy VDH said:


> Historically they have not seen it as prorated.  You are a member in 2012 your pay the annual fee.
> 
> If you don't want to pay, in the future I would recommend to anyone to purchase something in late Nov early Dec with the hope that they are not speedy on the close and register.  So when it does finally does register it is in January and then you feel you might get use of the entire years membership fee.




That's the best time to purchase anyway, bills are arriving for next years mf.


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## Titandude (Oct 14, 2012)

I was told that closings after October 1st don't have tp pay the current year's club fees. I closed two weeks too early!


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## Titandude (Oct 14, 2012)

sjuhawk_jd said:


> Finding TUG is your first positive experience



 I think you're correct!


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