# [2020] Disney on ii



## Renzo (Feb 8, 2020)

Going through ii directory I saw Disney vacation club in Orlando.....I wonder why?
Has anyone heard anything?


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## Panina (Feb 8, 2020)

Renzo said:


> Going through ii directory I saw Disney vacation club in Orlando.....I wonder why?
> Has anyone heard anything?


There is no detailed info shown and if you try to enter the code for a search you get “No resort found for names/codes entered.”

This is what it looks like in the directory.


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## rhonda (Feb 8, 2020)

What was the date on the II Catalog?  DVC did trade through II until ~2006'ish.

Edited to add:  Oh, never mind.  You meant the _online_ directory (duh!) ... not the printed version.  
Yeah, just assume these are artifacts from "once upon a time."  I'm guessing that II might show artifacts from the earliest DVC properties up to SSR (opened 2004), perhaps, but not beyond?


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## CPNY (Feb 8, 2020)

I think it’s just old. I don’t see DVC ever coming back to II. I wish they did but I doubt it will happen.


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## pedro47 (Feb 8, 2020)

I just saw the same photo on II website.
It is the Bay Lake Tower at Disney Contemporary Resort.
It is the only Disney resort listed on the II website.
Just  checked  DVC exchanges only with RCI.


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## Dean (Feb 9, 2020)

Interesting.  DVC started with RCI Jan, 2009.  BLT didn't open until 2009.  Maybe they'd preloaded it before the change over and just never removed it.  I know the existing resorts stayed on the website a couple of years after the change over.  But if they'd preloaded it, they would have added additional information over what is displayed on II.


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## Panina (Feb 9, 2020)

Dean said:


> Interesting.  DVC started with RCI Jan, 2009.  BLT didn't open until 2009.  Maybe they'd preloaded it before the change over and just never removed it.  I know the existing resorts stayed on the website a couple of years after the change over.  But if they'd preloaded it, they would have added additional information over what is displayed on II.


It has the highest newer designation which I believe was after 2009 but an algorithm could be loading that.


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## Panina (Feb 9, 2020)

I just emailed II sending them the image asking.  Wishful thinking


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## Dean (Feb 9, 2020)

Panina said:


> I just emailed II sending them the image asking.  Wishful thinking


You'll likely hear back it's an error.  Either way it's an error that it shouldn't be there or it shouldn't be there yet.  I'm certain they won't give you any advance information if anything is pending.  I'm not certain when the current RCI contract ends for DVC.  While I wouldn't be surprised if DVC flipped back, I don't think it's overly likely.  Still they were with RCI, then changed to II then back to RCI.  I do not see them being dually affiliated.


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## rickandcindy23 (Feb 9, 2020)

Wishful thinking.  I loved it when DVC was with II.  All you had to have was a decent trader, and one-to-one exchanges.  I loved it, and II cared about those who rented DVC and stopped them.  If you turned someone in on Redweek or ebay, II would put an end to the rental.  It was as simple as that.


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## Panina (Feb 9, 2020)

Wishes and dreams 


rickandcindy23 said:


> Wishful thinking.  I loved it when DVC was with II.  All you had to have was a decent trader, and one-to-one exchanges.  I loved it, and II cared about those who rented DVC and stopped them.  If you turned someone in on Redweek or ebay, II would put an end to the rental.  It was as simple as that.


Wishes and dreams can come true.  If not this time, maybe next time.


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## Renzo (Feb 9, 2020)

If only....


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## rickandcindy23 (Feb 9, 2020)

DVC loves RCI.  I am surprised that owners' complaints have been on deaf ears.  I have complained to DVC about all of the rentals on Redweek and other places.  I know others have told them, but the people at the DVC desk don't care.


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## Dean (Feb 9, 2020)

rickandcindy23 said:


> DVC loves RCI.  I am surprised that owners' complaints have been on deaf ears.  I have complained to DVC about all of the rentals on Redweek and other places.  I know others have told them, but the people at the DVC desk don't care.


RCI is a better fit for DVC.  More options to rent when they need to dispose of inventory, a better tie in to the points system, more willingness to customize to DVC and most owners don't exchange anyway.  And while I prefer II overall, the main reason I do is Marriott.  And now that Marriott & Vistana/Westin are tied together with an internal preference, the opportunity to exchange to either of those systems is very limited other than short notice or high availability low demand situations.  Even more limited than it was years ago when DVC left II.  If you take DVC, Marriott, Westin & Vistana out of the equation is II really better than RCI?


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## rickandcindy23 (Feb 9, 2020)

I have yet to see any effect of the Westin/ Marriott exchange priority.  It's too early to tell.  Ongoing searches are always the key to getting the good stuff.  I will just enter my ongoing searches 2 years out.  That should do it.


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## Panina (Feb 9, 2020)

Dean said:


> RCI is a better fit for DVC.  More options to rent when they need to dispose of inventory, a better tie in to the points system, more willingness to customize to DVC and most owners don't exchange anyway.  And while I prefer II overall, the main reason I do is Marriott.  And now that Marriott & Vistana/Westin are tied together with an internal preference, the opportunity to exchange to either of those systems is very limited other than short notice or high availability low demand situations.  Even more limited than it was years ago when DVC left II.  If you take DVC, Marriott, Westin & Vistana out of the equation is II really better than RCI?


Yes, in my opinion it II is still better. It is a fairer system for people that own the more desirable weeks thus I believe they get more deposits for the nicer resorts that are dual affiliated with RCI and II.  I will admit RCI has more units and more selection but II still has overall a better quality.


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## Panina (Feb 9, 2020)

rickandcindy23 said:


> I have yet to see any effect of the Westin/ Marriott exchange priority.  It's too early to tell.  Ongoing searches are always the key to getting the good stuff.  I will just enter my ongoing searches 2 years out.  That should do it.


Two years out has always worked for me to get great trades In II.


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## Theiggy (Feb 9, 2020)

I wish! I feel like that listing is new though. I’ve never seen it before. I would be such a happy camper if DVC was in II. 


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## Dean (Feb 9, 2020)

rickandcindy23 said:


> I have yet to see any effect of the Westin/ Marriott exchange priority.  It's too early to tell.  Ongoing searches are always the key to getting the good stuff.  I will just enter my ongoing searches 2 years out.  That should do it.


My point was that if you take MVC & Westin/Vistana out of the mix for Disney owners, there isn't any difference in terms of quality or options between II & RCI.  And given the internal preferences for the 3 and the added preference from MVC to W/V & vice versa, you'd really need to remove them from any comparison of the 2 systems as a non owner within those resorts.  They will largely be an entity unto themselves in II other than under the 60 day window and maybe for off season & lower demand resorts which aren't what most people want statistically.


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## Dean (Feb 9, 2020)

Panina said:


> Yes, in my opinion it II is still better. It is a fairer system for people that own the more desirable weeks thus I believe they get more deposits for the nicer resorts that are dual affiliated with RCI and II.  I will admit RCI has more units and more selection but II still has overall a better quality.


Other than the internal trading of MVC & it's related resorts, I'm tending to think RCI is a better and more fair system.  More individualized trade power, more transparency on the trade power, more availability at closer to 2 years out, the ability to combine and extend deposits.  Remember that II limits your trade options but doesn't disclose that they do or how they do so.


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## Panina (Feb 9, 2020)

Dean said:


> Other than the internal trading of MVC & it's related resorts, I'm tending to think RCI is a better and more fair system.  More individualized trade power, more transparency on the trade power, more availability at closer to 2 years out, the ability to combine and extend deposits.  Remember that II limits your trade options but doesn't disclose that they do or how they do so.



I own  high demand times and locations.  For owners like me RCI is not fair in the tpu system.

RCI immediately diminishes my value as soon as I deposit, charging more for my week then the tpus they give me.

I am competing for prime weeks with others that paid for the luxury to combine their weeks.  

They aren’t as transparent as you think.  Between points, tpus and all the different system portals such as hgvc and what RCI rents they really do not have transparency.  Which system gets what first? What do they rent that we never get a chance to trade into?

All I know is I have over a hundred tpus and can hardly find anything equivalent to what I own. For prime weeks, for example DVC, they charge 55 tpus.  They wouldn’t give me close to that for a February Marco Island prime resort but through the hgvc portal I get DVC for 3400 points, a bargain next to the tpu system, so not fair to tpu customers.

Plus if you to change your week, not due to an emergency (so insurance doesn’t work), it always  costs you the trade fee.  II offers eplus.

I have eliminated all but one week that only trades through RCI and  will be looking to get rid of it this year.

I always get matches in II and even find great things in open inventory.  

Now for people that own weeks that aren’t prime, time and area I understand why RCI works great for them as in II it is like for like.  Unfortunately I believe these prime timeshare weeks more often end up deposited in II thus the shortage in RCI.


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## CPNY (Feb 9, 2020)

Panina said:


> I own  high demand times and locations.  For owners like me RCI is not fair in the tpu system.
> 
> RCI immediately diminishes my value as soon as I deposit, charging more for my week then the tpus they give me.
> 
> ...


I just won an auction for an RCI trader last night. From all I’ve researched and read I think I’ll be using my RCI points strictly for DVC if I can. If it doesn’t work out how I want, I’m breaking out if it. I think I completely have way too many RCI points for what I’m going to use it for lol. I hope I can rent out my RCI points to cover maint fees at least


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## amycurl (Feb 10, 2020)

Doesn't II have a TUG-specific rep/thread, or am I making this up? This seems like the perfect question for that person.

Because the switch to RCI was well over a decade ago, I'm inclined to believe it's a new listing....let the speculation BEGIN!


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## Panina (Feb 10, 2020)

amycurl said:


> Doesn't II have a TUG-specific rep/thread, or am I making this up? This seems like the perfect question for that person.
> 
> Because the switch to RCI was well over a decade ago, I'm inclined to believe it's a new listing....let the speculation BEGIN!


yes There is a tug rep.  That is where I sent the inquiry.


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## emoneybug (Feb 10, 2020)

How’s it working out trading for dvc?



CPNY said:


> I just won an auction for an RCI trader last night. From all I’ve researched and read I think I’ll be using my RCI points strictly for DVC if I can. If it doesn’t work out how I want, I’m breaking out if it. I think I completely have way too many RCI points for what I’m going to use it for lol. I hope I can rent out my RCI points to cover maint fees at least


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## paxsarah (Feb 10, 2020)

CPNY said:


> I just won an auction for an RCI trader last night.





emoneybug said:


> How’s it working out trading for dvc?



I'm pretty sure that they haven't had the opportunity to trade for DVC when they won an auction 36 hours ago.

I've done okay with it, though. I've been able to get SSR when I want it during school breaks and I've got an exchange into BRV coming up next month (yes, I know I'm very, very lucky).


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## CPNY (Feb 10, 2020)

emoneybug said:


> How’s it working out trading for dvc?


I just won it last night. To be honest, with the amount of points I’ll have, I should be able to pick up 85K rooms that no one else will want to spend the points on so it could work out well lol. We shall see, even if it doesn’t it’s 178K points for 985 maint. Seemed to be the best RCI point ownership I’ve seen. Why? Do you want it? I’ll allow you to buy it haha. I didn’t even sign the contract yet lol.


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## CPNY (Feb 10, 2020)

paxsarah said:


> I'm pretty sure that they haven't had the opportunity to trade for DVC when they won an auction 36 hours ago.
> 
> I've done okay with it, though. I've been able to get SSR when I want it during school breaks and I've got an exchange into BRV coming up next month (yes, I know I'm very, very lucky).


Exactly. I don’t know yet lol. I’d prefer if DVC went back to interval but I doubt they will. Most who own DVC aren’t trading out of DVC, it seems like DVC has more control over the units in RCI than they would in II? I don’t think Wyndham would allow DVC to leave. It would hurt RCI immensely.


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## Panina (Feb 10, 2020)

Renzo said:


> Going through ii directory I saw Disney vacation club in Orlando.....I wonder why?
> Has anyone heard anything?


From Mark Delcampo of II, “This is an error”.


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## CPNY (Feb 10, 2020)

Panina said:


> From Mark Delcampo of II, “This is an error”.


Unless they are keeping things quiet! Time to pick up an II trader? Lol. I think DVC likes the RCI method of TPU and Point currency for reservations.


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## pedro47 (Feb 10, 2020)

Panina said:


> From Mark Delcampo of II, “This is an error”.


Thanks you Panina.
Mark should know the answer IMO.


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## emoneybug (Feb 10, 2020)

I’m new to HGVC/RCI.  Have not traded yet but yeah I’ve seen Saratoga 1 bedroom for many weeks April to June and it looks like they just added more June to July today.

ive also seen some OGS emails that say other resorts available for 3/1 but by the time I see the email and I click to RCI I can’t verify.  Maybe those are error emails?  I’m still trying to figure out what’s real and what’s not with this TS system.


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## CPNY (Feb 10, 2020)

emoneybug said:


> I’m new to HGVC/RCI.  Have not traded yet but yeah I’ve seen Saratoga 1 bedroom for many weeks April to June and it looks like they just added more June to July today.
> 
> ive also seen some OGS emails that say other resorts available for 3/1 but by the time I see the email and I click to RCI I can’t verify.  Maybe those are error emails?  I’m still trying to figure out what’s real and what’s not with this TS system.


Pay for tug membership and you will have access to the sightings page. I began a spreadsheet to track what is available and what Is deposited.


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## amycurl (Feb 10, 2020)

Still, it seems like an odd error, many decades in the making. So weird.


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## travelhacker (Feb 10, 2020)

I’ve looked at the Orlando listings several times and never seen “DVE” for Disney Vacation Club, so that’s definitely new. 

Personally, I think DVC is a much better fit in II than RCI. I think most casual DVC owners would be reasonably happy with some of the higher end offerings in II, and I don’t know that I’d be all that happy with much besides HGVC if I was a DVC owner (I know there are some decent, smaller resorts that are an exception).

While I think it would make a lot of sense for DVC to move back, I’m not holding my breath.

My gut says that a programmer set a flag on a row in the prod database, and didn’t catch it, which is why it’s missing a lot of information. As a programmer, I can say that programmers do dumb things on a fairly regular basis if they aren’t paying close attention.


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## Panina (Feb 10, 2020)

travelhacker said:


> I’ve looked at the Orlando listings several times and never seen “DVE” for Disney Vacation Club, so that’s definitely new.
> 
> Personally, I think DVC is a much better fit in II than RCI. I think most casual DVC owners would be reasonably happy with some of the higher end offerings in II, and I don’t know that I’d be all that happy with much besides HGVC if I was a DVC owner (I know there are some decent, smaller resorts that are an exception).
> 
> ...


I also know it was not out there. Even if it’s in the works we would still be told it is an error.  I was a programmer.  A series of errors would have to be done for it to appear.  The designation of elite resort shows what ever happened was not left over from before, something happened recently.


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## CPNY (Feb 10, 2020)

travelhacker said:


> I’ve looked at the Orlando listings several times and never seen “DVE” for Disney Vacation Club, so that’s definitely new.
> 
> Personally, I think DVC is a much better fit in II than RCI. I think most casual DVC owners would be reasonably happy with some of the higher end offerings in II, and I don’t know that I’d be all that happy with much besides HGVC if I was a DVC owner (I know there are some decent, smaller resorts that are an exception).
> 
> ...


Idk... does DVC really want their owners exchanging into other resorts? I think they would rather their owners renting points so others who don’t own visit and spend money, or owners themselves go and spend money. Having owners constantly exchanging may make owners think, why bother owning DVC if I’m not going as much anymore? Which would flood the resale market. By having RCI which let’s face it, has inferior resorts to II, namely MVC, Vistana, and Hyatt; most owners will not exchange and use their points for multiple trips or rented to others. Points exchanged into an exchange program = less people at Disney. More points used at Disney.....well you get the idea.


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## Theiggy (Feb 10, 2020)

Panina said:


> I also know it was not out there Even if it’s in the works we would still be told it is an error. I was a programmer. A series of error would have to be done for it to appear. The designation of elite resort shows what ever happened was not left over from before, something happened recently.



Yep. I’m still keeping my fingers crossed. 


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## tschwa2 (Feb 10, 2020)

My guess is that the code is only a sign that DVC might show up as a rental (and not a cheap one).  I don't think it is any indication that DVC may return to II for exchanges.


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## CPNY (Feb 10, 2020)

Theiggy said:


> Yep. I’m still keeping my fingers crossed.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I don’t see it happening. Then again, MVC could have lobbied for that hard which would make them untouchable. Maybe it could be dual affiliated and ONLY MVC family of brands can book DVC.

ACTUALLY..... it’s going to def happen. I bought an RCI trader today. So yup it’s def leaving RCI


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## travelhacker (Feb 10, 2020)

Panina said:


> I also know it was not out there. Even if it’s in the works we would still be told it is an error.  I was a programmer.  A series of errors would have to be done for it to appear.  The designation of elite resort shows what ever happened was not left over from before, something happened recently.


I agree -- there would have had to have been a series of missteps for it to appear. It'll be interesting to see if there is anything else that pops up.


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## Dean (Feb 11, 2020)

Panina said:


> They aren’t as transparent as you think.  Between points, tpus and all the different system portals such as hgvc and what RCI rents they really do not have transparency.  Which system gets what first? What do they rent that we never get a chance to trade into?
> 
> All I know is I have over a hundred tpus and can hardly find anything equivalent to what I own. For prime weeks, for example DVC, they charge 55 tpus.  They wouldn’t give me close to that for a February Marco Island prime resort but through the hgvc portal I get DVC for 3400 points, a bargain next to the tpu system, so not fair to tpu customers.


My comments were comparing II to RCI and IMO, RCI is far more transparent.  You know what TPU you'll get for a given deposit and how much/when it's reduced in value.  If you do an instant match, you know what the cost is and you'll get back any difference.  For an OGS you can get an idea of the cost but not an exact as it's a fluid system with reduced costs as you get closer in many cases.  With II you do not know any of this and the TDI certainly doesn't tell you as it only gives you the ability to compare for that specific area.  You can get an idea based on experience and you can make some assumptions based on other information.  I have mostly used RCI weeks for HI & trading in to DVC and ave not had any issues but I put in my OGS 1.5 to 2 years out and I do a manual search a few times a week.  But it's not a perfect system, there isn't one.


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## CPNY (Feb 11, 2020)

Dean said:


> My comments were comparing II to RCI and IMO, RCI is far more transparent.  You know what TPU you'll get for a given deposit and how much/when it's reduced in value.  If you do an instant match, you know what the cost is and you'll get back any difference.  For an OGS you can get an idea of the cost but not an exact as it's a fluid system with reduced costs as you get closer in many cases.  With II you do not know any of this and the TDI certainly doesn't tell you as it only gives you the ability to compare for that specific area.  You can get an idea based on experience and you can make some assumptions based on other information.  I have mostly used RCI weeks for HI & trading in to DVC and ave not had any issues but I put in my OGS 1.5 to 2 years out and I do a manual search a few times a week.  But it's not a perfect system, there isn't one.


I would have to agree. With interval everyone runs “test searches” and reports what they see and what they are using to search. The old “I could see X with my Y but not my Z” is the only way to know in interval.


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## ocdb8r (Feb 11, 2020)

My vote - SOMEthing is up.  This has already been removed online.  NOTHING moves that fast at II unless there is a reason - someone screwed something up.  This is the EXACT image from Disney's DVC website; Bay Lake Tower was not fully built when DVC left II previously and so this picture couldn't have existed until AFTER DVC had left II.  I also note that we knew publicly DVC was leaving II by mid-December 2008, which means II knew before that.....WAY before Bay Lake was near complete.

I don't think it means for sure we're going to see DVC in II, but someone at II loaded this (recently).


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## CPNY (Feb 11, 2020)

ocdb8r said:


> My vote - SOMEthing is up.  This has already been removed online.  NOTHING moves that fast at II unless there is a reason - someone screwed something up.  This is the EXACT image from Disney's DVC website; Bay Lake Tower was not fully built when DVC left II previously and so this picture couldn't have existed until AFTER DVC had left II.  I also note that we knew publicly DVC was leaving II by mid-December 2008, which means II knew before that.....WAY before Bay Lake was near complete.
> 
> I don't think it means for sure we're going to see DVC in II, but someone at II loaded this (recently).


Maybe they will have dual affiliation? Maybe DVC knows RCI has been skimming units to rent for themselves and is pullout out of the contract.


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## paxsarah (Feb 11, 2020)

CPNY said:


> Maybe DVC knows RCI has been skimming units to rent for themselves


Do we even know this? Or is this complete speculation?


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## CPNY (Feb 11, 2020)

paxsarah said:


> Do we even know this? Or is this complete speculation?


Speculation at best. Apparently RCI has been accused of this in the past I heard? Add in the fact that people are complaining about a company renting multiple weeks on eBay that look to be RCI exchanged weeks based on the rules. It’s a possibility, one I wouldn’t put past any company.


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## Panina (Feb 11, 2020)

The only facts we have are
it wasn’t listed on II until recently and was pulled once I inquired
it shows the pic of the resort that happened after DVC left II
it has the highest designation that also was not around when DVC left II
II says it is an error
and 
many more dvc seem to be showing up in RCI.

Another theory
Maybe II is working on a sales pitch to lure DVC back and this was the start of part of a II presentation Package.


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## CPNY (Feb 11, 2020)

Panina said:


> The only facts we have are
> it wasn’t listed on II until recently and was pulled once I inquired
> it shows the pic of the resort that happened after DVC left II
> it has the highest designation that also was not around when DVC left II
> ...


I still don’t think DVC would want their owners exchanging points for superior resorts than RCI has to offer. Again, less points being used in DVC means less owners there spending money. At least if DVC members rent, those rooms are being used by people. People who will spend money at Disney world.


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## TheHolleys87 (Feb 11, 2020)

It’s so much fun to speculate about this! It did occur to me that in some ways it seems that DVC and Disney in general are trying to attract a wealthier client, or at least clients who like to feel they’re getting the best. Maybe Disney too feels that II would offer DVC members more deluxe exchanges than RCI can. Again, it’s fun to speculate!


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## CPNY (Feb 11, 2020)

TheHolleys87 said:


> It’s so much fun to speculate about this! It did occur to me that in some ways it seems that DVC and Disney in general are trying to attract a wealthier client, or at least clients who like to feel they’re getting the best. Maybe Disney too feels that II would offer DVC members more deluxe exchanges than RCI can. Again, it’s fun to speculate!


They know II can offer better exchanges. I think that’s why they would stay with RCI. When I went to a DVC presentation they went into the whole “you can exchange to over 4000 resorts” but it was an after thought. It sounds nice and is a nice “selling tool” but who would exchange their DVC for RCI resorts!? Even the sales rep said no one cares about that. People who buy DVC stay here and stay here multiple times a year.


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## Theiggy (Feb 11, 2020)

TheHolleys87 said:


> It’s so much fun to speculate about this! It did occur to me that in some ways it seems that DVC and Disney in general are trying to attract a wealthier client, or at least clients who like to feel they’re getting the best. Maybe Disney too feels that II would offer DVC members more deluxe exchanges than RCI can. Again, it’s fun to speculate!



It is so much fun to speculate. Like gossiping without hurting anyone’s feelings. It also cracks me up that us Tuggers are so slick and savvy we noticed this so quickly. I often think that I could really help guide II to fix their app to make it more user friendly. We probably know more than most of their employees. 


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## CPNY (Feb 11, 2020)

Theiggy said:


> It is so much fun to speculate. Like gossiping without hurting anyone’s feelings. It also cracks me up that us Tuggers are so slick and savvy we noticed this so quickly. I often think that I could really help guide II to fix their app to make it more user friendly. We probably know more than most of their employees.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I noticed it around two weeks ago while searching and just thought, oh it must be left over from when it was in II YEARS ago.... then when this popped up I didn’t realize it was new! Now it seems like II took it out.


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## KauaiMarriott (Feb 11, 2020)

I emailed II a couple of days ago about why Riviera shows up on the web site.  Here is the response I got:  

"Although we had a previous affiliation with Disney properties, we are
currently negotiating our current affiliation details. Once we solidify
a plan that will best suit both entities, you will see more details
about this property on our website. Until that time, you may or may not
be able to view any inventory for this location since it appears we have
not yet received any deposits."

I hope this negotiation suits both entities!  We would love to be able to trade our unit for Riviera.


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## CPNY (Feb 11, 2020)

KauaiMarriott said:


> I emailed II a couple of days ago about why Riviera shows up on the web site.  Here is the response I got:
> 
> "Although we had a previous affiliation with Disney properties, we are
> currently negotiating our current affiliation details. Once we solidify
> ...


Come on...... just stop lol on a serious note, being that I just bought an RCI trader this would def happen LOL


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## CPNY (Feb 11, 2020)

KauaiMarriott said:


> I emailed II a couple of days ago about why Riviera shows up on the web site.  Here is the response I got:
> 
> "Although we had a previous affiliation with Disney properties, we are
> currently negotiating our current affiliation details. Once we solidify
> ...


@dioxide45 what are your thoughts.


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## Panina (Feb 11, 2020)

KauaiMarriott said:


> I emailed II a couple of days ago about why Riviera shows up on the web site.  Here is the response I got:
> 
> "Although we had a previous affiliation with Disney properties, we are
> currently negotiating our current affiliation details. Once we solidify
> ...


Your answer is much different then the answer I got from Mark at II that it was an error.


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## CPNY (Feb 11, 2020)

Panina said:


> Your answer is much different then the answer I got from Mark at II that it was an error.


And this is the second post this person posted? Hmmm. Idk..... and is there any confirmation that riviera showed up?.

although....... since there are plenty of resale restrictions with riviera they may allow that resort to dual enroll in both RCI and II so those owners aren’t stuck with points they can’t use if they don’t book 11-7 months out in advance. Since inventory is always limited in DVC.


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## dioxide45 (Feb 11, 2020)

CPNY said:


> @dioxide45 what are your thoughts.


Not sure what to think of this. I guess anything is possible. Speculation is always great!


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## Dean (Feb 12, 2020)

CPNY said:


> They know II can offer better exchanges. I think that’s why they would stay with RCI. When I went to a DVC presentation they went into the whole “you can exchange to over 4000 resorts” but it was an after thought. It sounds nice and is a nice “selling tool” but who would exchange their DVC for RCI resorts!? Even the sales rep said no one cares about that. People who buy DVC stay here and stay here multiple times a year.


I don't think there's any chance that DVC cares about a good exchange making them look bad.  Historically they limited by pick and chose which resorts members could exchange to and a few years ago they opened up to all exchanges.  The reported reason for the previous restriction was to make sure members didn't trade down and thus be unhappy.  In general DVC members are less knowledgeable about exchanges and also exchange less.  Reportedly RCI was much cheaper for DVC than II, I know for a fact that's the case with another timeshare company I own with which primarily trades with RCI though some of their properties trade with both.  With that system RCI previously gave them a discounted per person price about 60% of retail and now it's free for the company for the corporate memberships and RCI uses the deposits to recoup their expenses.  I know they explored dual affiliation previously and that was a no go.  I'd be very surprised to see that happen as their overall costs would go up since DVD pays for the corporate membership in one way or another and they are the member, we just tag along.


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## CPNY (Feb 12, 2020)

Dean said:


> I don't think there's any chance that DVC cares about a good exchange making them look bad.  Historically they limited by pick and chose which resorts members could exchange to and a few years ago they opened up to all exchanges.  The reported reason for the previous restriction was to make sure members didn't trade down and thus be unhappy.  In general DVC members are less knowledgeable about exchanges and also exchange less.  Reportedly RCI was much cheaper for DVC than II, I know for a fact that's the case with another timeshare company I own with which primarily trades with RCI though some of their properties trade with both.  With that system RCI previously gave them a discounted per person price about 60% of retail and now it's free for the company for the corporate memberships and RCI uses the deposits to recoup their expenses.  I know they explored dual affiliation previously and that was a no go.  I'd be very surprised to see that happen as their overall costs would go up since DVD pays for the corporate membership in one way or another and they are the member, we just tag along.


I for one hope they stay in RCI since I’m picking up an RCI trader LOL. If they go II I’ll have to get an II trader since I’m sure Orlando resorts would be restricted from seeing DVC inventory much like the restriction in RCI now.


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## ocdb8r (Feb 12, 2020)

CPNY said:


> I still don’t think DVC would want their owners exchanging points for superior resorts than RCI has to offer. Again, less points being used in DVC means less owners there spending money. At least if DVC members rent, those rooms are being used by people. People who will spend money at Disney world.



The units don't go empty!  Disney is just as happy to take the money from an exchanger as they are an owner (or a renter, as you point out).

I'd argue there are lots of good reasons for DVC to get in the mix with II (either alone or as part of a dual affiliation with RCI):

1) They've been in RCI for over a decade now; there is likely new "blood" to be found in opening the world back up to II traders...which means more sales prospects.

2) I think the demographic of the big II affiliates better matches that of a typical DVC owner (MVC, Vistana, Hyatt) - one who is happy to pay a premium for a luxury branded timeshare.  RCI has the HGVC crowd and some of the more premium Wyndham properties, but I would bet the II user base is attractive to DVC for prospecting.

3) Contrary to many posts, I DO think DVC cares about its members getting quality trades.  The DVC owner base has expanded exponentially in the last decade and even if only a small portion of those members occasionally trade out of DVC to other destinations, DVC member services has to support an enormous number of users trading - they don't want to be dealing with problems or compliants.  They want those trades to be quality and RCI alone may not be able to offer up sufficient quality units.  People on this board need to remember, not all owners are like tuggers!  How many of us have heard the numerous conversations at the resort pool by people absolutely thrilled with the amazing developer purchase value they got....these same people never even contemplate renting their unit rather than trading it in one of the promoted systems.

4) II has changed significantly in the last decade.  Now scooped up and owned by MVC, which also owns Vistana and Hyatt, it's possible II is willing to play a bit more ball to get DVC in the mix.  DVC members are also likely an untapped market for the likes of the new MVC.

5) While you might think DVC would like to protect the database of their owners from the likes of the new MVC conglomerate, I think DVC has also matured and realized they cannot compete as well as they thought outside the Disney park ecosphere.  All of the non-park located DVC's have struggled - they may well have conceded that linking up with something more akin to the leader in this industry outside the Disney ecosphere can be advantageous.

6) I don't think all the rental of RCI exchanges has gone completely under the radar of DVC.  People here have been frustrated at the lack of action on this, but DVC has limited time and energy to pursue this on their own.  If they don't think RCI is handling it appropriately, perhaps a move back to II can help solve the problem (as has been pointed out II was always a bit more aggressive pursuing renters and at the very least it gives DVC an opportunity to address it up front in a new contract).

In any case - I agree that it's fun to speculate and watch this space.  For me it was a bit nostalgic as I pulled up my old II history to look back at when I last traded into DVC via II - a wonderful 3 bed at Saratoga Springs (a rare occurrence)!  I've been fortunate to have a couple of dual affiliated resorts (Vistana's SDO and Worldmark) so I've also been able to trade via RCI, but I have always preferred II.


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## CPNY (Feb 12, 2020)

ocdb8r said:


> The units don't go empty!  Disney is just as happy to take the money from an exchanger as they are an owner (or a renter, as you point out).
> 
> I'd argue there are lots of good reasons for DVC to get in the mix with II (either alone or as part of a dual affiliation with RCI):
> 
> ...


Excellent points and hope that you’re onto something. I would love to find this out sooner than later. I guess I’ll have to look to pick up a valuable II trader.... SDO comes to mind or possibly a WKV. Being that I just got a high point RCI trader, id like to see this hold off just a bit haha


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## Dean (Feb 12, 2020)

CPNY said:


> I for one hope they stay in RCI since I’m picking up an RCI trader LOL. If they go II I’ll have to get an II trader since I’m sure Orlando resorts would be restricted from seeing DVC inventory much like the restriction in RCI now.


They were restricted at 45 miles when with II before, it's 30 miles with RCI not that there are any resorts where the distance makes a difference that I can think of.  


ocdb8r said:


> The units don't go empty!  Disney is just as happy to take the money from an exchanger as they are an owner (or a renter, as you point out).
> 
> I'd argue there are lots of good reasons for DVC to get in the mix with II (either alone or as part of a dual affiliation with RCI):
> 
> 1) They've been in RCI for over a decade now; there is likely new "blood" to be found in opening the world back up to II traders...which means more sales prospects.


DVC has never mined exchangers for tours, I could agree with this if they put ANY effort toward getting them to tour but they don't.  



> 2) I think the demographic of the big II affiliates better matches that of a typical DVC owner (MVC, Vistana, Hyatt) - one who is happy to pay a premium for a luxury branded timeshare.  RCI has the HGVC crowd and some of the more premium Wyndham properties, but I would bet the II user base is attractive to DVC for prospecting.


I would agree they are more like Westin, MVC & Hyatt but I'm not sure that's a good thing.  Currently they're a big fish in the largest pond.  With II they move to a smaller pond and there are other big fish.  And in many ways I don't see that it matters as the membership would have little access to MVC, Westin & Vistana and likely to Hyatt as well.  



> 3) Contrary to many posts, I DO think DVC cares about its members getting quality trades.


I think they used to care more about it than they do now but I still think they do care.  The reason I think they care less about this area is that for a long time DVC micromanaged the resorts that members could trade to and this is the reason they gave.  Besides limiting exchanges within a distance, they also generally did not include limited availability resorts, lower rated resorts (esp where there were better ones), resorts under constructions and new resorts.  And they would actively remove those where they got enough negative feedback.  But now they don't restrict exchanges which IMO is better for the members though I'd argue it's better for the informed members and maybe worse for the rest.  The statement I responded to above about not caring was where CPNY suggested (as I read it) that DVC didn't want members trading to top options, I presumed for fear the members would realize that DVC is just another good timeshares.



> 4) II has changed significantly in the last decade.  Now scooped up and owned by MVC, which also owns Vistana and Hyatt, it's possible II is willing to play a bit more ball to get DVC in the mix.  DVC members are also likely an untapped market for the likes of the new MVC.


True, II is a different entity but not that different.  Their points options are still very limited.



> 6) I don't think all the rental of RCI exchanges has gone completely under the radar of DVC.  People here have been frustrated at the lack of action on this, but DVC has limited time and energy to pursue this on their own.  If they don't think RCI is handling it appropriately, perhaps a move back to II can help solve the problem (as has been pointed out II was always a bit more aggressive pursuing renters and at the very least it gives DVC an opportunity to address it up front in a new contract).


Rentals happened with II and II was more aggressive about controlling it (by far).  If it was important to DVC, they'd find a way to fix it.  The info I have strongly suggests that one of the main reasons for the move was to allow them to rent out inventory they controlled and it's likely this was the single largest reason for the change.  

DVC actually has a registered exchange company, BVTC.  It's basically inactive at the present time but historically it's been a decent option, much better than RCI or II in some ways.  In the early days it included Shell & Hilton when DVC was with RCI early on.  Then it included Club Intrawest and Club Codial when with II.  I've long held that a better approach for DVC and some of the others would have been to join up and cut out RCI & II completely with such an internal exchange system including players like Hilton, MVC, Hyatt, Westin and subsets of some of the others.  It could have helped the members of those systems and the systems themselves.  Obviously the devil is in the details and getting them all to agree on such a system might be a bit of a challenge.


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## bnoble (Feb 12, 2020)

If I follow the money, I don't see much of a compelling reason for DVC to switch to II. DVC as a business unit has as its main goal to sell more retail points profitably, and everything else is in the noise. 

On the revenue side, I suspect specific external exchange options are way down on the list of reasons why a new purchaser buys a retail contract. Suppose a prospect is wondering what to do if they don't want to vacation with DVC every year. The first answer to that is probably to describe banking for a splurge trip in a larger unit/for a longer stay. The second is probably to explain DCL internal exchanges. After that is probably external exchange, as ABD is pretty spendy, points-wise. Furthermore, to the extent that external exchange options *are* important, the RCI "wish book" (list of resorts) is thicker than II's, and it would be easy for a Guide to selectively pick a handful of top-shelf resorts from RCI's stable to show off to a prospective buyer who wanted to know what happened if none of the Disney options were satisfying. 

Someone buying their _second_ contract from the developer is almost certainly not doing so for access to external exchange resorts. Even in II there are very few that command the same rental rates that DVC does. So, making current Members happier probably doesn't figure much in the affiliation decision.

On the expense side: As Dean mentioned, RCI is apparently more willing to cut deals for resort systems than II is. That could change; it's hard to say.


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## ocdb8r (Feb 12, 2020)

bnoble said:


> Someone buying their _second_ contract from the developer is almost certainly not doing so for access to external exchange resorts. Even in II there are very few that command the same rental rates that DVC does. So, making current Members happier probably doesn't figure much in the affiliation decision.



Respectfully disagree on both points.  No one should be buying a DVC contract PRIMARILY to gain access to external exchange resorts...however, many (with one or multiple contracts) find themselves in a given year wanting to change things up.  Making sure they are happy when they do is important to any customer oriented organization, and certainly to Disney.  Point in fact, DVC made a point of discussing the change to RCI extensively after they did it a decade ago, pointing out user satisfaction.  It's certainly on their radar.



bnoble said:


> On the expense side: As Dean mentioned, RCI is apparently more willing to cut deals for resort systems than II is. That could change; it's hard to say.



I guarantee you there is no cost to DVC for being part of an exchange system - they make all their money off us exchangers.  I agree that RCI may have been more aggressive in the past, but as I mentioned, II could be willing to make a better deal a decade on.  No one has provided any evidence or reasoned arguments as to why RCI works particularly well or better for DVC as a Company (regardless of member satisfaction).  Everyone seems quite happy to hang their hat on inertia.  I'm not saying it's a bad argument...change takes effort, but it alone is not very persuasive to me.


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## CPNY (Feb 12, 2020)

I feel like the DVE profile was in II for years with no information. Do we know for a hard fact that this was added recently?


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## DannyTS (Feb 12, 2020)

I do not know what is happening but something is happening. All of the sudden lots of SSR inventory in RCI not to mention that  Old Key West and Animal Kingdom have also been seen, after many years of absence. Let's not forget that there are travel agencies whose business model is to rent out RCI exchanges at DVC. Maybe DVC started to care all of the sudden, maybe some DVC owners complained and were heard by the right executives. Maybe Marriott speculated the moment to approach DVC again since the door was cracked.  I am sure Marriott would do a lot to get DVC back. Can you imagine all the sales people bragging about the new addition?
If that is true, it would not be inconceivable for DVC to blame RCI for not enforcing the agreement and allow this to happen and threaten to leave unless they get X,Y,Z. Or maybe this was the straw that broke the camel's back. Who knows, time will tell. 

Personally I am not thrilled about this. We will have an RCI account soon in case I want to exchange into SSR so I am covered on that front. But this will for sure increase the competition on the II side for the best weeks and resorts.


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## Panina (Feb 12, 2020)

CPNY said:


> I feel like the DVE profile was in II for years with no information. Do we know for a hard fact that this was added recently?


It wasn’t


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## CPNY (Feb 12, 2020)

Panina said:


> It wasn’t


The blank profile wasn’t there for years? Or it wasn’t recently added?

considering I just paid for my eBay RCIpoint auction today I hope it stays in RCI AHAH.


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## Panina (Feb 12, 2020)

If miraculously DVC went to II, HGVC members would have no access unless they own one of the few affiliates that are members of II.


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## Panina (Feb 12, 2020)

CPNY said:


> The blank profile wasn’t there for years? Or it wasn’t recently added?
> 
> considering I just paid for my eBay RCIpoint auction today I hope it stays in RCI AHAH.


No it just recently appeared


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## CPNY (Feb 12, 2020)

Panina said:


> No it just recently appeared


Hmm. It’s a good possibility it’s coming back to II. When you think about the people buying into Riviera and Reflections. These resorts are much more distinguished than some of the others. They may want to offer better resorts for exchange. If that happens I will no longer need my RCI Ownership. I hope I can sell that off easily.


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## Panina (Feb 12, 2020)

CPNY said:


> Hmm. It’s a good possibility it’s coming back to II. When you think about the people buying into Riviera and Reflections. These resorts are much more distinguished than some of the others. They may want to offer better resorts for exchange. If that happens I will no longer need my RCI Ownership. I hope I can sell that off easily.



Did you sign everything already?  

You can get a HGVC affiliate in Marco Island that trades in II without being a member of HGVC.  If DVC stays in RCI you enroll it in HGVC  and trade for DVC through the HGVC portal.  If it goes to II, you will have high trading power to get DVC.


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## CPNY (Feb 12, 2020)

Panina said:


> Did you sign everything already?
> 
> You can get a HGVC affiliate in Marco Island that trades in II without being a member of HGVC.  If DVC stays in RCI you enroll it in HGVC  and trade for DVC through the HGVC portal.  If it goes to II, you will have high trading power to get DVC.


Signed sealed and delivered lol. I can always sell it. It’s a great point contract. 178K for 985 MF.


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## bnoble (Feb 12, 2020)

ocdb8r said:


> many (with one or multiple contracts) find themselves in a given year wanting to change things up.


Sure, but this isn't why they are _buying_. And DVC (as with any timeshare developer) is primarily concerned about the *buying*, not the *using**.*

I don't have a dog in the fight; I have several weeks that are dual-enrolled and that used to be great at getting DVC exchanges back when they were in II. So, if they went back it would be no skin off my nose. I saw the reason why DVC moved to RCI in the first place--it appears to have been to have access to the latter's much better developed rental channels during the Great Recession. It's less clear why they would move back. My money says they won't but I've definitely been wrong before.


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## littlestar (Feb 12, 2020)

CPNY said:


> I for one hope they stay in RCI since I’m picking up an RCI trader LOL. If they go II I’ll have to get an II trader since I’m sure Orlando resorts would be restricted from seeing DVC inventory much like the restriction in RCI now.


Buy some resale DVC points if you find a deal on some and it won’t matter which exchange company DVC is with.  Plus you get a crack at booking the DVC’s that never show up in RCI.


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## CPNY (Feb 12, 2020)

littlestar said:


> Buy some resale DVC points if you find a deal on some and it won’t matter which exchange company DVC is with.  Plus you get a crack at booking the DVC’s that never show up in RCI.


I’m going the trader route first. Then I think I’d lean toward exactly what you just said. A small contract, like 100 or 150 points. Go every two years at DVC and stay Marriott getaways the other times I want to go.


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## ocdb8r (Feb 13, 2020)

bnoble said:


> Sure, but this isn't why they are _buying_. And DVC (as with any timeshare developer) is primarily concerned about the *buying*, not the *using**.*



I think we're just on different pages as to how the timeshare model works and motivations of developers.  I know "sales" are the flashy side of the business model (and certainly provide some big upfront returns), but the long-term management fee commitment is just as important.  *Using *is important to sustain and improve margins on those management fees - it's all the transactional changes that generate income for this side of the business (reserving, guest certificates, splitting weeks, exchanging....etc) along with revenues generated on-site. 

I guess if I believed DVC didn't care at all about ability to exchange, they wouldn't bother with any affiliation at all.  Given they _have _chosen to affiliate with at least one external exchange company (and in fact have changed that affiliation twice), I am more interested in their motivations on why they'd choose one over the other.  To me, whether external exchanging is important or not (or even its relative importance)  is a moot point.  Some part of DVC made the call to affiliate with RCI and I'm most focused on what influenced their choices.



Dean said:


> DVC has never mined exchangers for tours, I could agree with this if they put ANY effort toward getting them to tour but they don't.



I admit I haven't noticed much on-site pressure to tour as someone exchanging in, _however_, I have had several reports of friends getting hit up by DVC AFTER they exchanged in via RCI (via various forms of marketing).  Disney has always had a more relaxed sales approach, but I can't believe they don't data mine exchangers as potential prospects.


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## ljmiii (Feb 13, 2020)

ocdb8r said:


> I think we're just on different pages as to how the timeshare model works... *Using *is important to sustain and improve margins on those management fees - it's all the transactional changes that generate income for this side of the business (reserving, guest certificates, splitting weeks, exchanging....etc) along with revenues generated on-site.


I would more guess that you and bnoble have had different timeshare experiences. Mine are that...

DVC doesn't charge for any of those things except exchanging.
MVCI doesn't directly charge for any of those things. II does if you own unenrolled weeks or trade outside of MVCI.
HGVC is charge free if you use or rent your home weeks (which I do) but does charge lots of fees for owners who use points.
I have read that other timeshare systems are more 'fee happy'...but really know nothing other than what TUGgers have posted.

"on-site revenue" varies similarly. My home DVC resorts - BCV and BLT - don't have any DVD on-site revenue streams other than extra cleanings (and I'm not sure DVD and not WDW Co. sees that money). Similarly, my HGVC at HHV doesn't have revenue (other than maybe parking...but again I'm guessing Hilton and not HGVC gets the money since it's their parking garage). My MVCI Waiohai does (which may be why they keep messing with the store/restaurant/fitness areas).


ocdb8r said:


> I guess if I believed DVC didn't care at all about ability to exchange, they wouldn't bother with any affiliation at all...


The ability to exchange is just a marketing tool to sell DVC...they don't care if anyone uses it. II vs RCI doesn't matter to DVD except insofar as which organization pays them more for the ability to have II or RCI members 'trade in' to WDW.


ocdb8r said:


> I admit I haven't noticed much on-site pressure to tour as someone exchanging in, _however_, I have had several reports of friends getting hit up by DVC AFTER they exchanged in via RCI (via various forms of marketing).  Disney has always had a more relaxed sales approach, but I can't believe they don't data mine exchangers as potential prospects.


I would guess that RCI exchangers receive neither more nor less DVC literature than other DVC and WDW hotel guests. But that is only a guess.


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## Dean (Feb 13, 2020)

ocdb8r said:


> I think we're just on different pages as to how the timeshare model works and motivations of developers.  I know "sales" are the flashy side of the business model (and certainly provide some big upfront returns), but the long-term management fee commitment is just as important.  *Using *is important to sustain and improve margins on those management fees - it's all the transactional changes that generate income for this side of the business (reserving, guest certificates, splitting weeks, exchanging....etc) along with revenues generated on-site.
> 
> I guess if I believed DVC didn't care at all about ability to exchange, they wouldn't bother with any affiliation at all.  Given they _have _chosen to affiliate with at least one external exchange company (and in fact have changed that affiliation twice), I am more interested in their motivations on why they'd choose one over the other.  To me, whether external exchanging is important or not (or even its relative importance)  is a moot point.  Some part of DVC made the call to affiliate with RCI and I'm most focused on what influenced their choices.


DVD does care about exchanging as I'm sure the contracts with RCI (and II before) are such that that there are savings to DVD based on volume or at least a minimum threshold.  They've pushed exchanging far too much over the years in the weekly member meetings, on DCL and in their literature for them not to.  The reality is the exchange setup of DVC is horrible.  While it's nice to have options, having options that are so one sided are just not reasonable.  We could discuss the Disney Collection, DCL, etc which I've looked at and discussed with DVC upper management over the years.  One of the differences for DVC over most any other timeshare situation is that the points are liquid.  One can EASILY rent out for a true market price and that is the benchmark for comparisons IMO.  I do not believe that a member should EVER join with exchanging with DVC or any cash options in mind as part of their usage plan though it's good to have some back up options if you get stuck.  





> I admit I haven't noticed much on-site pressure to tour as someone exchanging in, _however_, I have had several reports of friends getting hit up by DVC AFTER they exchanged in via RCI (via various forms of marketing).  Disney has always had a more relaxed sales approach, but I can't believe they don't data mine exchangers as potential prospects.


I've been a member of DVC since 94 and participated on DVC BBS before there was an internet.  I don't ever recall anyone being actively sought out based on the way they got the reservation or at check in.  The ASA's in the lobby will sometimes try to strike up a conversation and one may get a welcome email or even a phone call.  But none of these come from sales.  Personally I think their lack of effort in this area has hurt the members far more than helped them.  It's very possible to be far more aggressive than they have and still be professional.  I know some like the LOW pressure but the reality is there is a downside that most people don't realize.


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## bnoble (Feb 13, 2020)

ljmiii said:


> I would more guess that you and bnoble have had different timeshare experiences.


As it happens, I am a Wyndham owner, which _does_ tend to nickle and dime owners with transactional fees. But, I also believe very strongly that Wyndham cares much more about _selling more points_ than they do _generating more transaction revenue_. They do care about management contracts, because the management fee is based on a percentage of annual costs, and not their own cost basis. You can see how much they care by (for example) observing the recent shenanigans around the KBV management contract. But, the management fees are still small potatoes compared to new point sales. The latter accounts for more than 75% of the revenue for vacation ownership segment in 2019Q3 ($663M out of $858M). And, importantly, new point sales *also* increase the ongoing revenue stream derived from management fees for future quarters.


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## Dean (Feb 13, 2020)

> I think we're just on different pages as to how the timeshare model works... Using is important to sustain and improve margins on those management fees - it's all the transactional changes that generate income for this side of the business (reserving, guest certificates, splitting weeks, exchanging....etc) along with revenues generated on-site.


Those are certainly things that RCI cares about but none of them add real income to any system I know of.  On the resort side the fees are in place mainly to control costs and let those that use them to pay to play.  Some companies care about exchanges as fresh meat, DVD has never done that actively.  I'm certain that DVD does assume a certain % of those exchanging in will buy and that's one of the reasons for the regional block I'm sure.  With DVC the rooms will be used by someone whether it be the owner, a renter, an exchanger or a cash guest so the "butts in the seats" philosophy does not apply for WDW or any DVC resort other than maybe HHI or VB.


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## ocdb8r (Dec 7, 2021)

This is why this Board is amazing...CAUGHT nearly two years before the announcement.  ;-)

Bumping this thread in case any interesting insight based on what was seen before II removed.


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## rickandcindy23 (Dec 7, 2021)

A foreshadowing.  I am so excited about this changeover to II.  I am also somewhat disappointed that Wyndham will no longer work for DVC because there is not much I really love in RCI.  I need to learn to love it.  I have a lot of points left after Wyndham's rule changes that I must deposit.


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## Dean (Dec 7, 2021)

I might have missed it scanning through but the regional block before for DVC with II was 45 miles rather than 30 with RCI, not that it makes much difference due to lack of resorts in that additional distance that I can think of.


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## bnoble (Dec 7, 2021)

rickandcindy23 said:


> I need to learn to love it.


Here's another good use for a Wyndham owner: RCI is very efficient for smaller units in high-point locations like Austin, San Francisco, or NYC.


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