# Timeshare Resales perhaps not wise



## tjdj (Jul 3, 2015)

Before we bought 4 additional weeks through resale, or thought we did, at our home resort, I went online and checked the reputation of the realty company on this site.  The realty company is one of very few who enjoy a good reputation with Tuggers.  We went ahead and bought the 4 weeks and assumed all would be well.  It was a cash deal, straightforward.  When the agent told us to send the money, we wired it the very next morning.  Well, here we are 5 months down the road, now working towards 6, with absolutely nothing. The title company has been completely non-responsive to me, never once returning a call or email, and finally, and only at the real estate agent's request, sent me an email attachment a few weeks ago.  It purported to show 3 completed deeds and nothing at all about the 4th.  As a Florida attorney, I know that email attachment is worthless to prove conveyed property. We have received no documents at all. Nothing, zero, zilch. I just want to warn others that a good reputation here does NOT mean the company is good.  Even if we receive any documents in the future, which I am doubting at this point, this process has turned me against resales.  I would have paid more buying through the home resort Association but at least I would have gotten actual titles for my money, and probably within 2 months.  At least I won't have to hire a Florida attorney.  Beware, beware, beware...


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## tschwa2 (Jul 3, 2015)

Which company?


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## silentg (Jul 3, 2015)

I too have just purchased a resale, very cheap, to use for trades, I filled out all paperwork. They offered me 2 type of closings, one was just deal with resort. Other was pay closing co $19.95 a month to be sure of title clear, and free, no liens or previous owners on deed. Since I paid next to nothing, that is what I will continue to do. Rubs me the wrong way, they want my D/L and SS# again after, I gave it to the seller already. I have signed and notorized everything they asked for. I put a note in with the last piece of paper that if they want the info get it from the seller. Now waiting for the deed to be processed! This is it for me no more buying timeshares! Just enjoy the ones I have.
Silentg


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## GregT (Jul 3, 2015)

tschwa2 said:


> Which company?



I agree, that's very unfortunate, and I've had much better resale experiences.

Which company are you working with?

I hope the situation improves...

Best,

Greg


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## tjdj (Jul 4, 2015)

I am reluctant to name the company, at least at this point.  I read these forums in late January and searched for everything on the company.  I checked the forums back several years and every time the company's name came up, it was treated favorably. I checked the company with the BBB.  I checked the realtor's license, looked up the company's incorporation, and ran a search of any lawsuits filed against the company. Everything checked out.

We contacted the agent at the very beginning of February and agreed to buy the first 3 weeks.  A couple of days later, we agreed to buy the 4th.  About 10 days later, I joined Tug.  My husband is a realtor, but not in Florida.  You would think that a realtor/lawyer combo team would not be in this situation, but here we are. 

The agent is blaming the sellers for the delay, but, in my experience and that of my husband, we know that in a cash deal, once the wire is verified, the realty company gets the deal done. I made an inappropriate assumption that the agent would not have instructed us to wire the money if the sellers had not fulfilled their obligations. That is where the reputation of the real estate company deluded me.  

 I complained to the agent the third week of June that we received nothing from anyone about the deeds, whether they even existed, etc., and he replied by copying the title company on my request.  He later emailed an apology.  The title company then sent me the purported scans.  That was the very first indication of any sort we ever received that the title company was doing anything at all.  After we sent the wire, they never answered any inquiries from us.  And we have never received those deeds.  And who knows what is going on with the 4th week. The scanned documents bore a stamp indicating that the 3 deeds were recorded the beginning of June.  Today is July 4th, and we have not received any deeds.

I have learned that it is like the Wild West out there on these resales.  You can either be lucky, or not.  I am amazed, however, that we were were instructed to wire the money when the sellers had not returned the properly signed and notarized contracts.  Yes, the resales are much cheaper than weeks sold by the Association, but it remains to be seen if the bargains are costly mistakes.  5 months (and counting) is absurd.


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## Ron98GT (Jul 4, 2015)

tschwa2 said:


> Which company?



Agree, since this person/company was recommended here on TUG, we should know who this person/company is, so others avoid the problems that you are going thru with 4 different TS's.  That's NOT a good track record.


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## tschwa2 (Jul 4, 2015)

The process you describe sounds more like the sellers that you know you aren't paying much and you are willing to roll the dice for the deal.  It doesn't sound like any of the recommended companies or agents.  Did you purchase through ebay or did you contract them directly?

If the deeds are registered in your name you may be able to look them up here:
https://www.collierclerk.com/records-search/official-land-records-search


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## Ron98GT (Jul 4, 2015)

tschwa2 said:


> The process you describe sounds more like the sellers that you know you aren't paying much and you are willing to roll the dice for the deal.  *It doesn't sound like any of the recommended companies or agents. * Did you purchase through ebay or did you contract them directly?
> 
> If the deeds are registered in your name you may be able to look them up here:
> https://www.collierclerk.com/records-search/official-land-records-search


From rereading the OP's comments several times, I don't know how you deduced that the agent had no culpability. It's the buyers agents responsibility to expedite the closing and maintain communications with their client: it's their fiduciary responsibility.


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## tschwa2 (Jul 4, 2015)

I could be off- I probably am,  but part of me thinks the OP might be timeshare sales person trying to discourage people who come to TUG looking for advice from buying resale.  I've bought from at least a half a dozen sellers some recommended and some not and some I've regretted doing business with, and some that I thought were absolutely incompetent and some that were quite efficient  I haven't had any ask me to "wire them money" and I don't know of any of the recommended companies here on TUG that require wire transfers of money.  If any thing, that would send up a fairly big flag and I think I would have remembered anyone praising or recommending a company that starts of a transaction like that.  

I never said the agent had no culpability.  As described the agents sound like they are terrible- which again doesn't sound like a recommended company.  Wish we knew who it was.   I just would like to establish if it truly is a recommended company or if it was just one that at the time the OP purchased, there just wasn't any negative comments.


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## sjsharkie (Jul 4, 2015)

tschwa2 said:


> I could be off- I probably am,  but part of me thinks the OP might be timeshare sales person trying to discourage people who come to TUG looking for advice from buying resale.  I


I thought the same thing.  As you mentioned, I could be wrong but something doesn't smell right.

In addition to what you mentioned, I found it odd that a FL attorney would be located in PA.  Possible he/she is licensed in multiple jurisdictions, but it was just weirdly phrased IMHO.

In addition, any FL attorney should know how easy it is to look up deeds in FL if they aren't comfortable with the deeds attached by email.

Anyway, if it is true, good luck to the OP.  Wiring a material sum of money doesn't seem like a smart thing for an experienced attorney to do, but we all make mistakes I guess.


-ryan


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## Ty1on (Jul 4, 2015)

sjsharkie said:


> I thought the same thing.  As you mentioned, I could be wrong but something doesn't smell right.
> 
> In addition to what you mentioned, I found it odd that a FL attorney would be located in PA.  Possible he/she is licensed in multiple jurisdictions, but it was just weirdly phrased IMHO.
> 
> ...


 I immediately noticed fla attorney in Pittsburg.  And how convenient the other half is a realtor.  An attorney and a realtor wired money for a real estate transaction without engaging escrow.  Mmm hmmm.


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## Tamaradarann (Jul 4, 2015)

*Who is the Agent?*



Ron98GT said:


> From rereading the OP's comments several times, I don't know how you deduced that the agent had no culpability. It's the buyers agents responsibility to expedite the closing and maintain communications with their client: it's their fiduciary responsibility.



I totally agree with you Ron that the Buyer's Agent is the one who is culpable to make sure that the deal is effectively executed.  When I have purchased resale I remember the Agent's name not the closing company.  I feel that the member who is complaining about resales without naming the Agent has some undisclosed agenda.  We all want to know who this Agent is and let him/her defend themselves if there is any truth to this story.


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## presley (Jul 4, 2015)

If you bought that long ago and still have nothing to show for it, demand a refund. FWIW, I know of no resellers that want money wired to them. All the ones I've dealt with will take several forms of payment and they are all fine with waiting for a check to come in the mail. It makes no sense that you won't name the company.


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## Talent312 (Jul 4, 2015)

A Florida licensed attorney who lives in Pittsburgh, maybe. A Florida licensed attorney/realtor wife who doesn't know how to file a complaint with the Florida Real Estate Commission (Department of Business Regulation)?  Unlikely.

Someone who's read favorable reviews a specific vendor, but won't name it in a negative review?
Won't specifically identify the what he bought, how much he paid or name the closing agency?

By this point, I would either have copies of deeds or hired a Florida lawyer who knows how to write a demand-letter.

.


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## tjdj (Jul 4, 2015)

I am a licensed attorney in both states.  I have no agenda other than sharing my concerns.  We first wired the "hand money" and then wired the remainder of the purchase price when instructed to do so.  Both the agent and the company read this board.  If they take issue with anything I wrote they are free to dispute it here.


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## Ron98GT (Jul 4, 2015)

Talent312 said:


> A Florida licensed attorney who lives in Pittsburgh, maybe. A Florida licensed attorney/realtor wife who doesn't know how to file a complaint with the Florida Real Estate Commission (Department of Business Regulation)?  Unlikely.
> 
> Someone who's read favorable reviews a specific vendor, but won't name it in a negative review?
> Won't specifically identify the what he bought, how much he paid or name the closing agency?
> ...


Just a couple of points.

First, I'm familiar with lots of attorney's licensed in one or more states, but not currently living in any of those states, so that doesn't raise any flags.

Second, the OP did state: " Before we bought 4 additional weeks through resale, or thought we did, at our home resort, I went online and checked the reputation of the realty company on this site ...".  Also noting that the OP owns at Eagles Nest. Therefore:

Third, I assumed, and still do, that the OP purchased four additional weeks at Eagles Nest in/on Marco Island and associated with HGVC, which is the OP's home resort.

Fourth, the OP did not complain about a specific sales person, sales company, or eBay, but a realty company, which does narrow down the Tug referrals.


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## tjdj (Jul 4, 2015)

Curious about your belief that I do not live in either state where I am licensed.  You could not be any further from the truth.  Inept?  I recently received an award for being one of the top 20 female attorneys in my state, a state with 80,000 attorneys.  But you are not the only person who has jumped to such conclusions on this board.  I, myself, made an illogical assumption about the opinions on this site, so I totally understand.  I wish you well.


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## tschwa2 (Jul 4, 2015)

> Fourth, the OP did not complain about a specific sales person, sales company, or eBay, but a realty company, which does narrow down the Tug referrals.



I took the main complaint was that TUG reviews (which the OP referred to as referrals) are not reliable and that resales are a bad idea.  If the post wanted to point a finger at a particular company or closing company, that company could have been named.


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## Ty1on (Jul 4, 2015)

tschwa2 said:


> I took the main complaint was that TUG reviews (which the OP referred to as referrals) are not reliable and that resales are a bad idea.  If the post wanted to point a finger at a particular company or closing company, that company could have been named.



It would absolutely be fair to give the company an opportunity to respond/rebut.....

Even some of the more criticized outfits have responded in threads about them.  

If the end goal of this post was getting the company to make things right, that won't happen if they aren't named.  If the end goal is to warn others, there is no warning without naming the company to be warned about.  Unless the goal was to warn potential buyers off ALL timeshare resellers.

The OP being a capable attorney and all  , I couldn't imagine her writing the post without a specific goal in mind.  The only time I have seen trial lawyers use vague language is to cast a seed of doubt in the jury's mind.  Could we be casting a seed of doubt against buying resale timeshare in general?  Who would benefit from the public's refusal to buy resale timeshare?


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## tjdj (Jul 4, 2015)

The goal of the post was to emphasize that you can't be too careful.  The resale concept appeals to me because resales are so much cheaper.  I always felt that when we bought our very first timeshare 28 years ago, we were swayed by the swagger of the presentation.  In retrospect, the purchase was good for us as it motivated us to vacation in a beautiful resort in our salad days. Perhaps this realty company truly is good and our seemingly endless wait for these deeds is an aberration.  The agent has been responsive throughout, but the blame has to fall somewhere; 5 months is unreasonable to me.  The sellers may indeed have been uncooperative; I don't know, but if you list your weeks at a certain price and you get your asking price, I don't know why you would hold up a transaction. I will get these deeds but this resale process, whenever and however it ends, has been a negative experience.  If I do not receive the deeds, I am certain I am capable of getting my money back.  Readers of this post have obviously enjoyed a different experience but that does not invalidate my experience in any way.


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## Ralph Sir Edward (Jul 4, 2015)

tjdj said:


> Curious about your belief that I do not live in either state where I am licensed.  You could not be any further from the truth.  Inept?  I recently received an award for being one of the top 20 female attorneys in my state, a state with 80,000 attorneys.  But you are not the only person who has jumped to such conclusions on this board.  I, myself, made an illogical assumption about the opinions on this site, so I totally understand.  I wish you well.



I am wondering why you chose to ignore the basic rules for transacting real estate, .i.e., funding through an escrow agent? No matter what recommendation are made to me about a person or business, I always transaction business in business-like manner.

Furthermore, why tar the entire resale market based upon your one experience? Many of us here have purchased timeshares in the aftermarket, (I did this January. It took slightly over 3 months to clear, but it was in Hawaii, requiring a Hawaiin Escrow agent (Hawaiian law), plus I paid for title insurance, which slowed down the process.)


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## DeniseM (Jul 4, 2015)

I know that attorneys are always worried about libel, but my experience has been that posting the name of a company on TUG, and holding their feet to the fire, is EXACTLY the way to get them motivated.  They hate the bad publicity.


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## Ty1on (Jul 4, 2015)

DeniseM said:


> I know that attorneys are always worried about libel, but my experience has been that posting the name of a company on TUG, and holding their feet to the fire, is EXACTLY the way to get them motivated.  They hate the bad publicity.



It isn't libel if you state supportable facts. 

What she wrote is easily supportable.  She just needs to name the reseller so A: They have a chance to tell their side and B: We know of whom we are being warned.


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## silentg (Jul 4, 2015)

I am working with Sumday vacations who handed off the closing to Great Way Services. I don't like being passed around, and offered new deals. If you can't honor my original one. I will walk away!BTW I am not the original OP. But since it's The subject, I am commenting here!
If I am intruding, I apologize !
Silentg


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## Talent312 (Jul 4, 2015)

DeniseM said:


> ... [P]osting the name of a company on TUG, and holding their feet to the fire, is EXACTLY the way to get them motivated.



I agree. The OP's message of "be careful out there," won't accomplish much.
Typically, when criticized in a public forum, vendors often respond and
sometimes even make-it-right. That can't happen unless they're named.
.


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## 55plus (Jul 4, 2015)

Try searching the county where the timeshare is/are located. Using this search I was able to locate the deeds online for the timeshares I own at Wyndham Walk.

http://dor.myflorida.com/dor/property/appraisers.html


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## tjdj (Jul 4, 2015)

*Questions*

1.  Is this forum only for positive posts?  If so, I am sorry for the negativity.
2.  Do Tuggers believe the time frame here is acceptable?
3.  Both the realty company and the agent read this forum.  Do they not have the right to respond anytime they wish?

Up to now, I thought resales were a very good idea. I always felt I was swayed by the swagger of the sales presentation 28 years ago when we bought our very first week.  In retrospect, the original purchase was good for us as it motivated us to vacation in a beautiful resort during our salad days.  The title company was the escrow in the current deals.  I will someday get these deeds or get our money back. I understand that everyone here had only positive experiences in resales.  I get that.  I am not saying all of you are wrong; my experience has differed from yours. Some of you are wrong about your assumptions.  And I am fascinated by the method you used to reach those assumptions.  As I started before, I also made a bad assumption.  The validity of groups like this does come into question when negative experiences are met with suspicion of ulterior motives and insults to the intelligence and professional capability of a poster. I admit I made a mistake when I trusted recommendations in this forum to augment my research.  That was indeed my error.  However, admitting to my error and trying to warn others to be more careful does not require anyone to believe me.  Hindsight is 20-20. and it revealed my second mistake....thinking that others could benefit from a dissenting opinion.  My warning is to be careful when spending your money.  Take it for what it is worth.


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## DeniseM (Jul 4, 2015)

tjd - This forum is for whatever you want to post, as long as it's in compliance with the forum rules.

However, we *are* a suspicious lot here, because we are constantly bombarded by newbies with ulterior motives who are not just sharing info. - they are promoting their own agenda.  Many of them are shills, spammers, and scammers.  I'm not saying that you are, just explaining why we are a jaded bunch.   

If you posted specific info. about who you are dealing with, you'd get more helpful feedback.

With the little info. you have posted, I'm not sure how we can help, but if you just wanted to vent, that's OK too.


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## Ron98GT (Jul 4, 2015)

DeniseM said:


> I know that attorneys are always worried about libel, but my experience has been that posting the name of a company on TUG, and holding their feet to the fire, is EXACTLY the way to get them motivated.  They hate the bad publicity.






Talent312 said:


> I agree. The OP's message of "be careful out there," won't accomplish much.
> Typically, when criticized in a public forum, vendors often respond and
> sometimes even make-it-right. That can't happen unless they're named.
> .



X2, totally agree


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## tjdj (Jul 4, 2015)

Both the agent and realty company are on here.  It has been their choice not to respond.  I will get these deeds. If not soon, then I will get my money back. Folks here have experiences that differ from mine.  I have wondered why this site is overwhelmingly positive towards resales. As I have just learned, negative experiences are met with questions concerning the intelligence and professional capabilities of posters, coupled with allegations of ulterior motives.  I went back just now and focused on the prior posts of those who presented negative facts.  The replies mirrored reactions to my post.  The validity of this forum is likely diminished by responses attacking posters who narrate less than positive experiences.  Attorneys on this forum know quite well why I have not identified those involved in these deals at this juncture.  My advice to those in this forum willing to listen is to just be very careful. Please take it for what it is worth.  Go on believing that every resale experience is wonderful if you are so inclined.  That is your prerogative.


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## DeniseM (Jul 4, 2015)

tjdj - No experienced owner here on TUG would say that every resale experience is perfect.  I've had a couple of bad ones myself.  (I've bought about 13 timeshare on the resale market, and had a couple that failed.  My last one - Wyndham - took 6 mos.)

But it is so ridiculously expensive to buy from the developer, that it really doesn't make sense to buy from the developer.  AND - developer purchases can be just as bad, or worse, because of the unethical behavior of the sales offices - in a word, they lie.  

In fact - we hear far more horror stories about developer purchases than resale purchases.

I think if you hang around here a bit more, you will see that we support timeshare owners, and criticize companies that treat them badly - whether they are resale or developer.

*I'm not sure why you expect the companies to respond on TUG - you have not disclosed who they are, so why should they?  If you want to have an impact - post the names.  If you do, I am sure there are others who have used them and can give far more specific advice, and share their own experiences.


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## chrono88 (Jul 4, 2015)

I have purchased resale from both TUG recommended brokers and ebay, and have had both timely and prolonged transactions (even with the same title company). In fact I am still waiting on a transfer that's now going on 7 months. I find that the timeliness of the transfer depends on many factors, including some luck. I figure, for me at least, the savings I get by purchasing resale is worth the risk of possible delay. And except for the current pending transaction, which I am still trying to resolve, the other purchases and transfers I have been involved in have all eventually closed to my satisfaction. I would still recommend buying resale, if the terms and risk are right for the buyer. But I agree with the OP and others - be careful. I would also recommend being persistent and not assume the closing company is "working on it" because I do think that sometimes they need to be pushed, waiting for one thing for months should not be acceptable.

Just my 2 cents, based on my experience.


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## tschwa2 (Jul 4, 2015)

tjdj said:


> 1.  Is this forum only for positive posts?  If so, I am sorry for the negativity.
> 2.  Do Tuggers believe the time frame here is acceptable?
> 3.  Both the realty company and the agent read this forum.  Do they not have the right to respond anytime they wish?
> 
> Up to now, I thought resales were a very good idea. I always felt I was swayed by the swagger of the sales presentation 28 years ago when we bought our very first week.  In retrospect, the original purchase was good for us as it motivated us to vacation in a beautiful resort during our salad days.  The title company was the escrow in the current deals.  I will someday get these deeds or get our money back. I understand that everyone here had only positive experiences in resales.  I get that.  I am not saying all of you are wrong; my experience has differed from yours. Some of you are wrong about your assumptions.  And I am fascinated by the method you used to reach those assumptions.  As I started before, I also made a bad assumption.  The validity of groups like this does come into question when negative experiences are met with suspicion of ulterior motives and insults to the intelligence and professional capability of a poster. I admit I made a mistake when I trusted recommendations in this forum to augment my research.  That was indeed my error.  However, admitting to my error and trying to warn others to be more careful does not require anyone to believe me.  Hindsight is 20-20. and it revealed my second mistake....thinking that others could benefit from a dissenting opinion.  My warning is to be careful when spending your money.  Take it for what it is worth.



Your dissenting opinion would be most helpful posted in the same thread where you saw the recommendation for that seller and  you could describe your problems as you did.  As it is failing to name names but insisting that it is one of the few recommended resellers helps no one.  As someone new to resales, who seems to have done a little research but you didn't join TUG, you didn't ask any question before buying.  Your situation is actually very common with some timeshare resales and if it is happen on a regular basis for a particular seller it needs to be pointed out.  I have one I am working with now (Acobbfan).  It was a fixed week 52.  I purchased in April.  I mentioned that I would never buy a float week with them and even a fixed week I would want 6 months + before use and would only buy if the price was right.  Not a glowing recommendation.


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## Talent312 (Jul 5, 2015)

I think everyone here would acknowledge that the world of resale sales is not always peachy-keen and plenty of times, its the fault of the broker, the seller and/or closer. Heck, there was a situation awhile back where a broker died and the $$ he was holding disappeared down a rat-hole. So this is not news.

Many here rely on the posts which review specific vendors to evaluate who is trustworthy, just as you did. But your decision not to identify the vendor makes your criticism of posters who participate in that process, disingenuous at best. If you had a sincere interest in adding to the collective wisdom on this subject, you would name-names. 

Even if, as the OP suggests, the vendor can guess that this thread involves them, I cannot fault an unidentified vendor for not responding.There no reason for them to do what the complainant himself is unwilling to do.
.

.


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## SmithOp (Jul 5, 2015)

I purchased resale from an eBay vendor with many bad reviews on here, so not everyone pays attention to opinions shared on here anyway.  I was willing to take a gamble to get something I wanted, the cost was $855 all in.  It took 7 months with very little communication, in the end I think the maintenance fee coming due was what pushed it to completion. I got final control in December and paid the bill.  

When I got a copy of the deed it was signed by a lawyer as executor, the previous owners were obviously deceased, so its not always the sales agent or transfer company that is the hold up.




Sent from my iPad using the strange new version of Tapatalk


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## CalGalTraveler (Jul 5, 2015)

tjdj said:


> 1.  Is this forum only for positive posts?  If so, I am sorry for the negativity.
> 
> Up to now, I thought resales were a very good idea. I always felt I was swayed by the swagger of the sales presentation 28 years ago when we bought our very first week.  In retrospect, the original purchase was good for us as it motivated us to vacation in a beautiful resort during our salad days.  The title company was the escrow in the current deals.  I will someday get these deeds or get our money back. I understand that everyone here had only positive experiences in resales.  I get that.  I am not saying all of you are wrong; my experience has differed from yours. Some of you are wrong about your assumptions.  And I am fascinated by the method you used to reach those assumptions.  As I started before, I also made a bad assumption.  The validity of groups like this does come into question when negative experiences are met with suspicion of ulterior motives and insults to the intelligence and professional capability of a poster. I admit I made a mistake when I trusted recommendations in this forum to augment my research.  That was indeed my error.  However, admitting to my error and trying to warn others to be more careful does not require anyone to believe me.  Hindsight is 20-20. and it revealed my second mistake....thinking that others could benefit from a dissenting opinion.  My warning is to be careful when spending your money.  Take it for what it is worth.



I am interested in purchasing resale but worry about the gotchas since I am a newbie. Although we discuss challenges with the developer, the resale market sounds like it has challenges as well. 

To the OP and the forum: what would you have done differently given your recent experiences in resale purchases?  To the forum: what are other lessons learned or gotchas to avoid?  What are some of your best practices?


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## Talent312 (Jul 5, 2015)

CalGalTraveler said:


> To the forum: what are other lessons learned or gotchas to avoid?  What are some of your best practices?



There are "sticky" posts at the top of the "Buying, Selling, Renting" forum that will provide guidance.

In brief: (1) ask for an estoppel from the TS to see what they say about what the seller is selling and (2) use a reputable 3rd party closer to hold the $$ (escrow lite) - unless the sale is for peanuts ($500 or less) & you can do it yourself. Lastly, I ask for a copy of the deed before sending the $$ to make sure the legal description matches what I was sold.
.


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## presley (Jul 5, 2015)

tjdj said:


> Both the agent and realty company are on here.  It has been their choice not to respond.  I will get these deeds. If not soon, then I will get my money back.



Have you sent them a link to this thread? I doubt anyone reads every post on this forum. I believe most resellers just do a quick search to see if there has been a post regarding them. With their names not posted, they won't get a hit on the search and they will only see this if you send them a link to it.


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## Jason245 (Jul 5, 2015)

Talent312 said:


> There are "sticky" posts at the top of the "Buying, Selling, Renting" forum that will provide guidance.
> 
> In brief: (1) ask for an estoppel from the TS to see what they say about what the seller is selling and (2) use a reputable 3rd party closer to do the closing hold the $$ (escrow lite) - unless the sale is for peanuts ($500 or less) & you can do it yourself. Lastly, I ask for a copy of the deed before sending the $$ to make sure the legal description matches what I was sold.
> .


3. If you win an inexpensive ebay deal with everything included in price. . It will take time to close.  (upwards of 5 months ).. 



Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N910A using Tapatalk


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## weems637 (Jul 5, 2015)

*waiting for resale paperwork too*

Found this thread so amusing and found TUG to be such a treasure chest of information, I'm joining today!  Love this place!


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## TUGBrian (Jul 5, 2015)

weems637 said:


> Found this thread so amusing and found TUG to be such a treasure chest of information, I'm joining today!  Love this place!



Welcome to TUG!


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## TheCryptkeeper (Jul 5, 2015)

Jason245 said:


> 3. If you win an inexpensive ebay deal with everything included in price. . It will take time to close.  (upwards of 5 months )..
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N910A using Tapatalk


Simple rule of modern economics:

Good and inexpensive is slow.
Quick and inexpensive is not very good.
Quick and good is expensive.


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## tjdj (Jul 6, 2015)

Ty1on said:


> I immediately noticed fla attorney in Pittsburg.  And how convenient the other half is a realtor.  An attorney and a realtor wired money for a real estate transaction without engaging escrow.  Mmm hmmm.



What is wrong with you people???  Where did I write that we did not wire to an escrow?  Do you always jump on new posters this way?  Denise wrote that a lot of scammers and shills post here.  Your responses and Denise's statement that scammers and shills post here indicate that I should have never taken into account the opinions on this site.  You guys have labeled me incompetent, a shill, a fraud and a host of other things based on non-existent evidence you conjured in your own minds..  Yes, a warning to be careful fell on deaf ears here.  I never asked for assistance but sure did not expect accusations and venom.  A site full of people who jump to ridiculous, unsupported conclusions then make accusations based on their incompetent sleuthing is of use to no one.


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## Jason245 (Jul 6, 2015)

tjdj said:


> What is wrong with you people???  Where did I write that we did not wire to an escrow?  Do you always jump on new posters this way?  Denise wrote that a lot of scammers and shills post here.  Your responses and Denise's statement that scammers and shills post here indicate that I should have never taken into account the opinions on this site.  You guys have labeled me incompetent, a shill, a fraud and a host of other things based on non-existent evidence you conjured in your own minds..  Yes, a warning to be careful fell on deaf ears here.  I never asked for assistance but sure did not expect accusations and venom.  A site full of people who jump to ridiculous, unsupported conclusions then make accusations based on their incompetent sleuthing is of use to no one.


This site is full of warnings and faq on how to buy resale.  You seem to have had a difficult experience purchasing an unknown property  (possibly hgvc) from an unknown buyer.  

My questions to you are:

1. Where in the process did the faq document fail you?
2. Can you name the seller agent so that other buyers can be cognizant of difficulties with this person or company? 
I



Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N910A using Tapatalk


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## sjsharkie (Jul 6, 2015)

tjdj said:


> What is wrong with you people???  Where did I write that we did not wire to an escrow?  Do you always jump on new posters this way?  Denise wrote that a lot of scammers and shills post here.  Your responses and Denise's statement that scammers and shills post here indicate that I should have never taken into account the opinions on this site.  You guys have labeled me incompetent, a shill, a fraud and a host of other things based on non-existent evidence you conjured in your own minds..  Yes, a warning to be careful fell on deaf ears here.  I never asked for assistance but sure did not expect accusations and venom.  A site full of people who jump to ridiculous, unsupported conclusions then make accusations based on their incompetent sleuthing is of use to no one.


I was one that wrote early on that I was skeptical of the legitimacy of the post.  The fact that you have been responding several times makes me have more confidence that you are a legitimate poster.

That being said, I think the accusations and venom are partly because you refuse to name the company.  Just as you mention:



> A site full of people who jump to ridiculous, unsupported conclusions then make accusations based on their incompetent sleuthing is of use to no one.



I think that your post under the heading of "Timeshare Resales perhaps not wise" without naming the company also helps no one.  There are tons of resellers out there along the entire spectrum of fantastic to fraudulent.  If you truly are trying to warn people about deceptive or unethical practices, then there should be no issue in naming the resale company IMHO.

Good luck to you.  I do hope it all works out in the end.

-ryan


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## DeniseM (Jul 6, 2015)

tjdj said:


> What is wrong with you people???  Where did I write that we did not wire to an escrow?  Do you always jump on new posters this way?  Denise wrote that a lot of scammers and shills post here.  Your responses and Denise's statement that scammers and shills post here indicate that I should have never taken into account the opinions on this site.



It's pretty easy to determine if someone is a shill or a spammer - look how many posts they have, and how long they've been on TUG - right below their blue user name.  Someone who is well-established on TUG is not going to be a shill or spammer, or scammer.

Tuggers have a vast amount of experience with buying resale, and we are well-aware of the pitfalls of buying resale.  So it's not that your advice has fallen on deaf ears - but you are preaching to the choir, and you aren't providing enough info. for us to give you any meaningful feedback. 

I understand why you are reluctant to name names, but without that info. we can't really help you much.

Good luck with your closing!


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## DeniseM (Jul 6, 2015)

One more note:  





> Where did I write that we did not wire to an escrow?



This is a common ploy with scammers - they "tell" the buyer that they are sending the money to a legitimate escrow company, but then the wire info. they provide is for a completely different Acct. - often out of the country.  If you are working with a reputable seller and closing company, this should not be the case, but it does happen with scammers.


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## brp (Jul 6, 2015)

tjdj said:


> You guys have labeled me incompetent, a shill, a fraud and a host of other things based on non-existent evidence you conjured in your own minds..



No, we really didn't. Reread the posts. There was a discussion about *real* types of people here. No one said that you were one of them. However, your posting pattern is certainly suspicious and could lead one to surmise. That's about it. far from accusation.

Try to look objectively at how unwilling you are to provide basic information without being prodded, and not even then. Without providing that, why do you feel that a bunch of very experienced people would heed a cryptic "warning" with sketchy posting style and details?

We don't know *you*, so we're not calling *you* anything. We see a series of posts, and ya gotta admit that coming onto a board with experts in an area and posting like this is not likely to paint you in a good light.

Imagine if I went to a law board and stated that it really made more sense to defend ones self in court as I gave money to an (unnamed, but on this board) lawyer who was unethical, didn't defend my case well, and ran off with the money...and what was all. Tell me you'd buy that 

Try stepping into our shoes. It will make some sense. Really.

Cheers.


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## momeason (Jul 6, 2015)

I purchased 2 resales. the first was slow in 2007 but went through.
The second in 2012 was much cheaper with a much more efficient, quicker closing. The second purchase was directly from the Sumday Vacations website.
I purchased a much better resort the second time (for one third the price) from Sunday Vacations and had a very pleasant experience.

Do your homework and you have a good chance of getting what you want. Never a guarantee though.


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## Maverick1963 (Jul 11, 2015)

TUG is the place where you can learn a lot about resale and specific information about, e.g., resale vendors you should avoid.  

In the first place, OP put a wrong title, "Timeshare Resale Perhaps not Wise", resulting in repercussions. I do believe TUG BBS welcomes broad range of opinions, but Tuggers believe resale is a wise choice.  If you are not interested in resale, TUG is worthless.

Second, we all are aware that resale sometimes get tricky and risky.  That is why TUG has a great value.  General warning does not make sense here.  We all expect specific facts in postings if there are any risks we should avoid in buying timeshare resale.


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## Bill4728 (Jul 11, 2015)

tjdj said:


> Before we bought 4 additional weeks through resale, or thought we did, at our home resort, I went online and checked the reputation of the realty company on this site.  The realty company is one of very few who enjoy a good reputation with Tuggers.  We went ahead and bought the 4 weeks and assumed all would be well.  It was a cash deal, straightforward.  When the agent told us to send the money, we wired it the very next morning.  Well, here we are 5 months down the road, now working towards 6, with absolutely nothing. ..



General advice:

When buying resale things can sometimes go wrong. 

Most of the time you are saving so much money that it makes sense to take that risk ( even more true when it is a company with a good reputation on TUG) 

TO THE OP

When you try to buy 4 timeshares in one deal the risk skyrockets  because each deal has a risk and to expect each of these 4 deals to go thru without problems is not reasonable.  You may have 3 of these deals complete but the fourth is holding things up. 

It would be like doing a remodel project on 4 different house in 4 different states with 4 different work crews. Could you reasonable expect all four projects to go well?


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## Ron98GT (Jul 11, 2015)

Maverick1963 said:


> TUG is the place where you can learn a lot about resale and specific information about, e.g., resale vendors you should avoid.
> 
> In the first place, *OP put a wrong title, "Timeshare Resale Perhaps not Wise", *resulting in repercussions. I do believe TUG BBS welcomes broad range of opinions, but Tuggers believe resale is a wise choice.  If you are not interested in resale, TUG is worthless.
> 
> Second, we all are aware that resale sometimes get tricky and risky.  That is why TUG has a great value.  General warning does not make sense here.  We all expect specific facts in postings if there are any risks we should avoid in buying timeshare resale.



I would have to agree that the OP selected a poor choice for the title.

First, the OP owns at Eagles Nest, a HGVC affiliate TS on Marco Island.  The OP wanted to purchase four additional units at her home resort.  Unfortunately, Eagles Nest is an older complex and has been sold out for many years.  The only way to purchase at Eagles Nest is to purchase a resale unit, be it from an existing owner, ebay, Redweek, HGVC, or at the complex itself that has a sales office there.  Which ever way you want to buy, it's going to be a resale.

Second, she posted her comments, including that title, on the Time Share Users Groups, a group that advocates buying resale, and is primarily comprised of resale owners such as myself.  I think the title was very antagonistic.  It came off as though she was blaming TUG and the people on TUG for the problem that she is having, because she got the referral for the real estate agent that she is using from reading TUG posts. If you start a comment, discussion, or post off by being sarcastic, you need to expect some defensiveness in return.


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## Harry (Jul 11, 2015)

I have been lecturing attorneys for years but not this OP.  She merely was not as informed as many of us on resales.  She needs to understand that many of the above posts are from some of our TUG veterans, many of whom are very passionate about the benefits of the secondary market. As indicated most of us have experienced flaws or transactions that have gone less than favorably.
 I liked her title because it sparked our interests. 
 To my fellow Tuggers, attorneys  cannot be expected to know everything, although standards unfortunately dictate this. Hopefully this person will obtain her deeds soon and then will become a member here

Harry


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## VegasBella (Jul 12, 2015)

TheCryptkeeper said:


> Simple rule of modern economics:
> 
> Good and inexpensive is slow.
> Quick and inexpensive is not very good.
> Quick and good is expensive.




I agree in general. 

All three of my timeshare ownerships were purchased resale. They took an average of 4 months to completely close. 

We did have an issue with one where the first years use was mistakenly rented out from under us but I got us an adequate remedy with a strongly worded email. 

With resales you definitely have to work harder. You have to follow through and make extra phone calls etc. but I think the savings more than justifies it.


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## lschaaf (Jul 12, 2015)

tjdj said:


> What is wrong with you people???  Where did I write that we did not wire to an escrow?  Do you always jump on new posters this way?  Denise wrote that a lot of scammers and shills post here.  Your responses and Denise's statement that scammers and shills post here indicate that I should have never taken into account the opinions on this site.  You guys have labeled me incompetent, a shill, a fraud and a host of other things based on non-existent evidence you conjured in your own minds..  Yes, a warning to be careful fell on deaf ears here.  I never asked for assistance but sure did not expect accusations and venom.  A site full of people who jump to ridiculous, unsupported conclusions then make accusations based on their incompetent sleuthing is of use to no one.



As a newbie doing research for my first TS, this post cracks me up.  The skepticism is normal, as the OP is vague...and we as Americans are automatically skeptical of vague posts.  I certainly didn't see any venom towards the original poster or her posts, a little coming from her though... 

But the point everyone was trying to make is...a warning is good...when it provides actual info.  Otherwise, it's like a shark warning w/no beach reference...stay out of the water, we saw a shark...(can you tell we just returned from SC,  )


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## uscav8r (Jul 12, 2015)

tjdj said:


> What is wrong with you people???  Where did I write that we did not wire to an escrow?  Do you always jump on new posters this way?  Denise wrote that a lot of scammers and shills post here.  Your responses and Denise's statement that scammers and shills post here indicate that I should have never taken into account the opinions on this site.  You guys have labeled me incompetent, a shill, a fraud and a host of other things based on non-existent evidence you conjured in your own minds..  Yes, a warning to be careful fell on deaf ears here.  I never asked for assistance but sure did not expect accusations and venom.  A site full of people who jump to ridiculous, unsupported conclusions then make accusations based on their incompetent sleuthing is of use to no one.



The title of the thread is what raised a bunch of red flags, even if they were not warranted.  

You can still edit the thread title up to a certain time by editing your original post, and select the "Go Advanced" button in the bottom right. Then you can change the thread title. If it has been too long, you can contact a Moderator to update it for you.

My suggestion for a less problematic title that more accurately conveys your point:

"The timeshare resales process is not foolproof even with due diligence"

Or something to that effect that does not use an overly broad, negative judgment against resales. If you are not going to identify the party at fault, this thread is not really a warning against anything, and only serves to scare people away from resales writ large.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## Mel (Jul 12, 2015)

The heading would be appropriate if the thread was about resale ownership, not about the process of obtaining a resale.  Because the OP wanted more weeks at a sold out resort, they would all be resales - just from different sources.  Even if the weeks were purchased through the resort, the process would not be the same as it was for the original purchase.  If the resort is acting as a seller's agent, the process would be the same as with an independent agent, but perhaps a bit more streamlined - at least in terms of the resort acknowledging the sale.  Only in the case where an owner has defaulted, would it be in the resort's power (and best interest) to move things more quickly.

It still feels to me like the OP has an agenda.  This is one set of transactions, and so far 3 of the 4 weeks have been transferred.  No original copy of the deed has been mailed, but was sent as an email attachment.  Those copies can be easily verified by accessing the county property database - when my resort had to reassign a number of deeds during construction of our new facility (consolidating units to reduce the number that had to be rebuilt after a hurricane), we checked the progress on the county website, and were eventually mailed updated deeds.  If one spouse is a RE professional, and the other an award-winning attorney, I would think they would have done just that - checked online.  Once they see how those weeks are listed in the database, they might even be able to find the 4th week, and see where it stands.  They might have been dealing with 4 different sellers, and one has been more difficult to close than the others.


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## taterhed (Jul 12, 2015)

I always thought those 'legal types' had short hair and thick hides....  Perhaps this is a new species I haven't met yet.

 Funny thread.

 I do luv TUG.  
 So much kinder than the WM forum(s).  :ignore:

 JK, really, JK.  Please don't flame me.


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## DAman (Jul 12, 2015)

I have had deals at both extremes.

Sumday did a transfer that had me as owner of record a couple of days after purchase.  Sumday communicated well with me and had all of the paperwork ready to do a transfer once payment was made.  The county allowed the deed to be efiled.

I had a private deal that took six months using an escrow/transfer company. It should have taken no more than a few weeks.  The escrow/transfer company did not have all of the paperwork ready. I think it may have been the seller that caused all the delays but I'm not sure and wasn't privy to the information.

The problem is usually one of communication and setting reasonable and realistic timeframes.

The OP is vague.  An attorney should know that the facts succinctly and clearly stated will win over a jury.  We are the jury. We need the facts to give our verdict.

To the OP:  Let the community know the facts and you will get opinions/suggestions.  A lot of them may be very helpful.

I learn something new/helpful just about every day here.


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## Ty1on (Jul 12, 2015)

taterhed said:


> I always thought those 'legal types' had short hair and thick hides....  Perhaps this is a new species I haven't met yet.
> 
> Funny thread.
> 
> ...



They have thick hides when it comes to client money.  With their own, they go bat**** crazy :hysterical:


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