# Keep it or cancel it ? Hilton New York Club - is it really a scam ??



## crazydive (Nov 27, 2015)

Hi

I'm totally new to the timeshare subject and so far I have a pretty bad imagination about it  My main question is to find out if I have any reasons to keep my timeshare or I should rather try my best to get rid of it as soon as possible. I would like to make an educated decision 

I believe I should provide here a few facts so some of you will be able to advice me knowing all details.

Timeshare was purchased by my wife (finance that time) as something what guy like me, who used to travel a lot, will enjoy together with her in the future. It was typical hard push sell and she felt super educated, and totally felt into the trap, asked millions of questions, and all answers were clearly a bunch of lies to pleasure the future client. When I confronted Hilton about that, their answer was simple  she had 10days to cancel the contract. Well, unfortunately she was way to busy, later we were busy with our lives and marriage, and when I tried to use it for our honeymoon in Florida... of course no chance whatsoever, everything booked months in advance. I tried to book something later in Hawaii, for our honeymoon part two, no chance for any place around our dream location and our scheduled vacation time. Completely useless product. I don't have explain here that it toke me about 10-20min to find some other place and book it for very reasonable price.

*Details about this product*
It is Hilton NY Club timeshare.
Amount financed : $36,000
Finance charge : $36,500
Annual % rate : 16 %
*Total Price including all other costs : $80,500 *
(please don't judge my wife here, she is already crying everyday and working extra shifts )
She purchased it this year, in January 2015
So far we already paid : $13,000
Every month payment : $605

We received 20,000 bonus points - expiration Jan 2017 and for each year 2015,2016,2017 - another 3x 5,000 points 
however points for 2015 will expire in Dec2015. Of course we are not going to use it because there is no chance to book anything now.
So in total we have 35,000 points. I know that I could keep point from 2015 however this crap company charge a fee for every modification about $100

Now, we just received letter to pay annual fees : $1600 

For me, this is clearly the biggest scam ever executed in white gloves without any sweat. Additionally it says made in compliance with Federal Law. Looks like law does allow for the legal robbery. 

*Simple calculation*
This have to be paid in 10 years = $80,500
Add to this annual fees which will go up for sure = $19,500
*Total = $100,000*

It means that I will *spent $10k each year for week of vacation, 
*well I actually can't really book anything so far. 

I tried to convince myself and calculate it in a longer period of 20 years. 
$100k + 10y annual fees ($22,000) = $122k

Now it gives me about* $6.1k per each vacation*

Wow ! we are still talking about pretty expensive rental for very limited amount of places with super limited availability :annoyed:

So... after doing some research, and simple math I already spoke with one place, where they promise to get rid of the contract and loan without any further payments. Sweet - we have to swallow that we completely lost $13k.
Nope !! They asked for $10k to do it and it may take 3-6months. WTF ? Not mentioning it was pretty much like a BS sale of another piece of crap.
I already have to accept losing such a huge money and somebody even dare to ask to double it ?! Why this country cannot just ban timeshare market completely. It allows to scam innocent people who would like to save a bit, do something in a better way, and actually ending up losing their life savings. I can't understand this.

Please help me to figure it out. Maybe I see it wrong. Maybe there is something positive about timeshare. Maybe I still could enjoy it instead of going on holiday and think all the time that I'm paying triple price for the same room which I could rent for close to nothing so now I'm on my holiday but I can't afford a drink because I'm totally an idiot. 

 Do you think I should keep this timeshare ?
Why would I do that ? Why not just simply when I want to go on vacation research something on internet and book it without any complications.

 Do you think I should quickly find a good lawyer to terminate this ?
What is the main reason in your opinion ? Can you point any reasonable lawyer ? 

Please keep in mind - I'm DO NOT PLAN to find a buyer for my timeshare - I'm thinking about getting rid of the contract and the loan in a legal way by an agreement with Hilton or taking them to the court. I will not recover any of already paid money however I will be able to save another $80k by not paying it in the future and wisely spending it on my vacations. 
I'm reaching here to people who are more experience with this subject if they have any better advice and could actually suggest something smart instead of just another long difficult fight.

Thank you in advance for any help
Pete


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## optimist (Nov 27, 2015)

I usually don't chime in  for these questions because there are many people a lot more knowledgeable than me on this board to advise you but I can't believe they sold you on 16% interest rate. That is some nerve in this market

The unfortunate truth is that you are not going to be able to sell this while there is a mortgage on it.  If it were me, I would try to get some sort of line of credit at a reasonable rate, as in 4 or 5% and pay this off.  At that point, you can decide to either sell it (I don't know what you own exactly, but it has SOME value, though not as much as you paid), or just learn to use it. Which is what this board is all about.  Teach you how to use is so you don't get closed out every time you want to book something.


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## Passepartout (Nov 27, 2015)

I honestly don't know what I could say that would make you feel better. What you have has perhaps 5-10% of what the developer charges people for them. Without being paid for and free and clear, no one will buy it. And 16% interest is obscene. 

I see two ways to go. Either stop paying entirely and when they turn you over to collection, which is likely, offer them the deed in lieu of foreclosure. If you are current, they will never accept this deal, they want their 16% interest payments. The other option is to refinance this using other collateral (timeshares have zero value as collateral) like maybe a home equity loan. Pay it off and then you can either use it, rent it, or sell it, but remember, it will NEVER be worth what you paid for it.

We have had a lively discussion here about how long it takes, and even whether collection will actually report you to the 3 credit agencies. There is little actual evidence and no personal reports either way.

Much depends on how much you value your credit rating. If you are going to be buying a home, car, finance student loans, or if your employer checks your credit, you might not want to trifle with foreclosure. But if you are not going to need credit for 7-10 years, it's worth considering.

MOST IMPORTANT. DO NOT pay anyone a penny upfront to 'get you out' of your timeshare ownership. There is *no* lawyer who can magically wave a magic wand and write a few letters and make a legal and lawfully written contract go away. Those legal and binding contracts are bulletproof. 

We wish you well, and fervently wish you'd read and understood the 'cooling off' period of the contract you signed, or had found us before it was too late to do anything about it.

Good luck with this tough decision. 

Jim


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## SmithOp (Nov 27, 2015)

First thing you can do is pay the fee to rescue your 2015 points, that will move them into 2016. Second, learn how to book reservations, 12 months in advance at your home resort, 9 months in advance at all other resorts. Third, see if you can refinance that loan to a lower rate.

You might be able to rent a NY reservation and get a decent return if you cant use it, book a popular week.  I imagine this Thanksgiving week in 2016 would rent for people coming to see the Macy parade, depends on if its a holiday event week. You would have to check the booking calendar.  Call the reservation line first thing Monday morning, 8am EST.


Sent from my iPad Mini 4 using Tapatalk


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## Conan (Nov 27, 2015)

I'm guessing you own 5,000 or maybe 6,000 points at Hilton Club NYC. 

As mentioned earlier, the best you can do for now is see if you can borrow the $36,000 you owe at a cheaper rate and use the money to pay off the horrible 16% loan you are now carrying. 

Some people in your situation have used bankruptcy to eliminate the timeshare ownership and the debt but I don't know if that would be practical for you.

Meanwhile, do try to get some vacation value out of the points you own. I believe you can convert them (on a yearly basis) to regular Hilton Honors hotel points, maybe as much as 50 Hilton Honors points for each of the points you convert. It shouldn't be hard to find ways to spend those points for vacation time in regular Hilton hotels. If it's too late to convert your 2015 points, at least you have another month to convert next year's points.

SmithOp above makes other very good suggestions. It would be a shame to lose the use of your 2015 points!


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## vacationhopeful (Nov 28, 2015)

Sorry you are REALLY unhappy that your family is "locked" into something neither of you researched, thought about, understood or now want ... yes, it is expensive to boot, too.

So other than bankruptcy or really bad credit by NOT paying on it anymore ... start to minimize YOUR debt via a lower interest rate and paying it off faster.

Learn the RULES to use it ... I have stayed at the Hilton Club for a week ... great location and interesting lot of owners. Even my Princeton educated and lawyer brother was impressed as he stayed with me ... and he is not a timeshare nut ... he owns none.

Read the post via SmithOp ... and do it. Save (rescue) those 2015 points! 

Pay off that 16% loan by refinancing (if you have decent credit or a good credit union); perhaps a close family member could also help you out with the family rate loan plan.

Yes, until that loan is paid off ... your style of living will NOT include new cars, cruises, dinners out most nights or even on weekends. Perhaps, one or both of you could obtain a 2nd job? Extra shifts is a good idea as your wife is getting time and half for her hours worked? 

Getting that deep in debt is NEVER a pleasant time while digging out. And understand ... make the best of it and HELP your wife out ... including bringing your lunch to work, working MORE shifts/2nd job, cutting back on YOUR lifestyle (yes, this is your debt also NOW) ....

$16,000 down in 2015 year ... another 2 years or less will get it paid off. Not easy ... but a very important lesson learned?


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## crazydive (Nov 28, 2015)

WOW, thank you for such a strong advice but...

how you all ended up in this ?
the same way as my wife ? I don't get that in the country where layers are on every corner there is nobody who can take this down with a huge fireworks ?

Do you see what you just wrote ? 
(of course I respect that you are trying to help me with a good advise, and we actually doing it so far, lunch bag, no going out at all, not being able to afford anything really, etc)
but it seems to me that this is quite normal here, that for a person who would like to enjoy some nice vacations time... advice is to lost a few years of their lives, work two jobs, etc, etc
Wow! why this procedure is legal ? Why this is not banned ? 

I know that I can find but very expensive lawyer. We paid for something we NEVER touched, we never received ANYTHING ! yes, there is a way out, a different way that just blindly pay them what they want to rip of innocent people. 

But I was hoping that somebody will write me some suggestions WHY to go that or other way. WHY to pay them this crazy money. And I mean it in comparison to normal regular way of going on vacation. I explored about a half world. I NEVER used anything in advance, related to anything involving membership, etc. Just a plan, search for a good option, location, plan, reviews, and booked. A few days later... all forgotten. Some money saved for a next year trough the regular not intense work, no killing yourself to enjoy some time off.

Thank you once again for you time


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## GrayFal (Nov 28, 2015)

Crazy, you CAN NOT find a very expensive lawyer to get you out of this.  All those people claiming they can help you are scam artist.


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## Jason245 (Nov 28, 2015)

crazydive said:


> WOW, thank you for such a strong advice but...
> 
> how you all ended up in this ?
> the same way as my wife ? I don't get that in the country where layers are on every corner there is nobody who can take this down with a huge fireworks ?
> ...


In answer to your question. . About half of the people on this bbs bought directly from the developer,  arrived to late to recisind and were in your shoes. 

The advise given to them and people like you is always the same.. learn to use what you have (hilton is a great system,  and membership in that resort is one of the few memberships that retain some value on resale market I believe ).. pay off the debt and continue to use it or try to sell it with one of the reputable agents, list it here on tug or give it away.  

The other half of this board  either came in time to cancel the contract,  canceled and never looked at a timeshare again or canceled and the bought the same thing or something else on the resale market for 0-10 percent of the developer cost in cash.  They learn how to get the most out of what they are about to buy and take amazing vacations sleeping in rooms next to people who paid tens of thousands more than they did.  

The contracts from timeshare developers are very strong. . Have been litigated many times and every time the developer loses one of those lawsuits,  they modify the contract or lobby for law changes so that they won't lose for the same thing next time. 



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## WinniWoman (Nov 28, 2015)

The bottom line is what is done is done. It was a HUGE mistake and now you have to deal with it. You have limited options. You can refinance for a much lesser interest rate and learn to use/rent your timeshare. You can foreclose- which isn't a bad idea if you don't need credit for 7 years. You can try to get the timeshare company to take it back. For sure- do not pay anyone upfront that promises to get rid of your timeshare. The key word in that sentence is UPFRONT.

Lesson learned. NEVER take out a loan to buy a timeshare. That is what really does people in. Next- never buy from a developer-buy resale or acquire for free from people looking to get rid of theirs. And learn to use what you own! There are so many systems out there- all different. Weeks, points, etc. For many people it is best to own where you want to go every year-preferably within driving distance so you are not subject to airfare all the time. Renting timeshares can be even better.

Sure-many of us bought from developers. And for some of us it actually worked out well anyway. I bought mine cash-no loan- so that helped a lot. I knew how to use it and have gotten my money's worth out of it for over 16 years. Many of us also went on to acquire more timeshares- many of them for free. Most of us actually love our timeshares.

Yes- many of the timeshare deals/salespeople are scammy- but it is what is in the contract that you signed that counts.

Good luck with this. Sorry it happened to you. But you will get it worked out.


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## ronparise (Nov 28, 2015)

You have it about right, Total spent over 10 years $100000 so for the first 10 years each vacation costs $10000, for something you can probably rent for closer to $2000.  After that its just maintenance fees

Kinda like my house,  $300000 to buy in with interest,  payments of $!5000 per year plus taxes and maintenance, and an emergency reserves account, costs me over $30000 per year ($2500/month)  for something I could rent for $1500 a month...And thats for 30 years, not just 10 like the timeshare


Your choices are just 3 as I see it.  1) relax and enjoy it, You might even buy something more on the secondary market to average down your costs, 2) walk away,, just dont pay, and suffer the  consequences (basically a hit to your credit) 3) fight the developer to take it back. 

As others have said be careful if you choose to fight, You can do it yourself or hire someone to represent you.  Just be careful, There are folks that will offer to help you for big money that are nothing but scam artists, but there are others that are legitimate. At least they will legitimately fight for you, They probably wont succeed. And its hard to spot the difference.   They can offer no guarantees. So either way, if you choose to fight, you are likely to spend more money and still own your timeshare. 

You asked what others have done in similar situations.  The happy ones have treated the bad decision as just that. A bad decision,  They pay their bills,  learn to use what they have and move on with their lives.  It sounds as if you are young enough that when you are my age you will be able to look back on all this and remember the good times (the vacations) and forget what it cost.  But there are others, Im sure that cant forget. These folks dont stick around here. Most of us are happy satisfied, timeshare owners

As for myself, almost everything I have was purchased on the secondary market. I dont own Hilton, I own Wyndham. But instead of paying thousands like you did I paid pennies. 

I met a lawyer recently that says in a situation like yours, he can usually get the big developers to "cancel" a timeshare sale. (they take it back and make the loan go away, often with out long term damage to credit and sometimes with a return of monies paid)  Conventional wisdom, here, is that this licensed attorney is a scam artist just taking money for a service he cant deliver.  I dont know, but I want to find out.  To that end, and if you want to find out too, Ill pay his fee for you.  But only if TugBrian, Denise and SueDon will agree to let me post the results (good or bad outcome) when he either succeeds or fails. And if successful, you can pay me back (or not) later.


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## Conan (Nov 28, 2015)

crazydive said:


> it seems to me that this is quite normal here, that for a person who would like to enjoy some nice vacations time... advice is to lost a few years of their lives, work two jobs, etc, etc
> Wow! why this procedure is legal ? Why this is not banned ?



As mentioned, about half the people here made the mistake of taking a tour and buying from the developer. Hindsight is easy, but it's pretty obvious that when you buy from the developer, you're the one paying for all those gifts/incentives they give out, all those breakfasts, commissions and compensation to all those people who came by your table to help make the sale, and so forth. 

Think of all the reviews you read and choices you consider before you spend $30,000 on a car, or even $50 for something on Amazon! And you probably don't borrow at a 16% interest rate to buy them!

Unfortunately your wife paid the full retail price for a piece of the most expensive real estate in America. $36,000 to own a week in New York City plus $1,600/year to maintain it is the same as paying $36,000 x 52 = $1,800,000 to own an apartment in NYC plus $7,000/month maintenance.  People who want to live in New York (and who can afford it) pay that much all the time! (But they don't borrow at 16%, and presumably they look at more than one property before they decide to buy.)


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## presley (Nov 28, 2015)

It's not a scam. I'm sure everything was spelled out in the contract that was signed. The choices now are to either deal with the consequences of signing the contract by paying for it, or quit paying and take a big credit hit for defaulting on the loan and the MFs. 

You are the second person this week to find Tug after only the wife made the purchase. That is very odd to me. Perhaps it is only in my home state of California that married couples both have to sign the contract for a purchase like this. You may want to look into that, though.


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## Iggyearl (Nov 28, 2015)

*Is there another way to look at this?*

I don't own a timeshare, but have lurked on this site for 2 years.  Your plight is a common one.  However, I see a little difference here.  Your wife bought this product before you were married.  It is "hers" - not "yours."  Might still be in her maiden name.  When married people buy things like cars or appliances, they do so with their own credit score.  If your wife defaults on this timeshare, your credit will not be affected.  However, if you want to buy a house together, you would need to use both credit scores.

My wife recently co-signed for our daughter and son-in-law's new home.  During the application process, there were a number of hard hits on her credit.  They demolished her score from 800+ to low 700's.  Mine was not touched.

I would consider contacting a lawyer (your own lawyer - not a timeshare lawyer).  Get an opinion on whether this concept holds water.  If you don't need large purchases (house or new apartment), you might let her credit go to heck.  Your plight just does not seem fair, but the reality is that you are faced with some difficult decisions.  Good luck.


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## vacationhopeful (Nov 28, 2015)

I can only image WHY your wife is in tears ... if you are this angry at US here on a internet BBS ... what are you saying and communicating to YOUR BRIDE? She was most likely legally misled by some very slick salesperson(s) ... either accept it or go see a lawyer to annul the marriage (might have way better luck at that than cancelling her timeshare).

If you decide she is WORTH KEEPING, realize this marriage is a for better or worse & sickness in health (and bank accounts) ... 

Take a timeout ... a chill pill ... talk to a REAL professional marriage therapist. Talk to an OLDER male family member ...  get an understanding you are NOT the first spouse to have a PURCHASE (contract) issue in your marriage. You will encounter far GREATER issues in martial life than a timeshare purchase ... cancer, sick children, dementia, job losses, natural disasters (like hurricanes), car accidents, affair(s), demotions, relocations, boat/sports car purchase.


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## Sugarcubesea (Nov 28, 2015)

ronparise said:


> You have it about right, Total spent over 10 years $100000 so for the first 10 years each vacation costs $10000, for something you can probably rent for closer to $2000.  After that its just maintenance fees
> 
> Kinda like my house,  $300000 to buy in with interest,  payments of $!5000 per year plus taxes and maintenance, and an emergency reserves account, costs me over $30000 per year ($2500/month)  for something I could rent for $1500 a month...And thats for 30 years, not just 10 like the timeshare
> 
> ...



Ron, this is a very generous offer and you are truly amazing. 
Crazy, Ron has helped many here on TUG, including me with a recent very rocky purchase.


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## Marathoner (Nov 28, 2015)

I live in NYC and met up with a friend last night.  He was here with his family and did the usual things that tourists do on Thanksgiving weekend - Macy's Thanksgiving Parade, ice skating at Rockefeller Center, etc.  He stayed at a nice but not a top of the line hotel near 5th Avenue in Midtown east.  The hotel was $900/day which leads to a weekly rate of $6300/week!  They enjoyed themselves but he doubts he'll come back anytime soon because of the cost of the vacation.

Hilton is a quality timeshare product and the New York Club is very nice.  New York City is a very expensive market and you've bought into a timeshare product which could provide reasonable rental rates or personal value if you choose to maximize the value of what you've purchased.  You did much better than if you had spent the same amount of money to buy a timeshare in Orlando or Las Vegas.  A Hilton NYC timeshare has good value and there is demand for the product that you could realize if you wanted to spend the time and energy learning to do so.

I don't really agree with your calculation of $100,000 over 10 years.  The finance cost is something that you can change.  You can refinance or pay down your loan early or, perhaps, you can borrow from parents.  This is the first thing that you need to focus on.

What many others have done in your case is to pay down the loan as fast as possible and learn to use the timeshare product that you own.  You can rent it out (the amount depends of the week that you reserve each year), you can exchange it for a nice ski or hawaii vacation every year (but you need to do this at least 9 months in advance of your vacation), or you can let it all go to waste because you are feeling so miserable about your past decisions.  Remember, none of us can change the past but we can influence the future.  

Becoming a master of a timeshare takes over a year of study and TUG is a primary education option that you have.  As others have said, do something with your 2015 points and week (before it is too late) since they have monetary value.




ronparise said:


> I met a lawyer recently that says in a situation like yours, he can usually get the big developers to "cancel" a timeshare sale. (they take it back and make the loan go away, often with out long term damage to credit and sometimes with a return of monies paid)  Conventional wisdom, here, is that this licensed attorney is a scam artist just taking money for a service he cant deliver.  I dont know, but I want to find out.  To that end, and if you want to find out too, Ill pay his fee for you.  But only if TugBrian, Denise and SueDon will agree to let me post the results (good or bad outcome) when he either succeeds or fails. And if successful, you can pay me back (or not) later.



TugBrian and Moderaters - I think you should permit this extremely generous offer by Ron.  There is a large educational value in understanding the outcome of this experiment!


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## Marathoner (Nov 28, 2015)

crazydive said:


> how you all ended up in this ?
> 
> Wow! why this procedure is legal ? Why this is not banned ?



Timeshares are not illegal because they offer good value if you can afford it and know what you are doing.  I own several timeshares and let me tell you about one of them to give you a sense of my decision factors.

My family and I were paying $5000 each year to rent the same week (Christmas) at the same resort and we were doing this consistently each year.  After a few years, I decided to buy a fixed week at this particular resort.  I did buy resale but the prices for this Christmas week were very expensive and I spent months looking through all the sales history data for this resort, both online and through a real estate broker.  I made a dozen low ball offers which were all rejected.  So, I finally put in a competitive bid and my second one was accepted for well over $30K.  This is my third year of ownership at this resort and I am very comfortable with my decision.  

If I use the rental cost of 5k/year, I will break even in under 10 years if I factor in my purchase price and the annual maintenance fee.  I would love to have spent less money but my family and I have come to really value our Christmas week vacation together.  We look forward to it each year and it is the highlight of our year and one that we hope to continue for many years going forward.  And I am really glad that I am no longer renting each year because $5000 is alot of money!

You will find similar stories from other people who have spent similar amounts of money on this forum.  Learn to maximize the value of what you have and leave the bitterness behind.


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## TUGBrian (Nov 28, 2015)

Very sorry that you didnt find us in time to rescind that purchase 

at least at this point you have the TUG family to help you make the best of what you now own!


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## Beaglemom3 (Nov 28, 2015)

Not a scam. 

You've received great advice here, so tackle this. Take a deep breath, settle  down and clear your mind, think logically, put away the emotion/turmoil and write down these things (advice from Tuggers ) in a notebook._ Writing these things down _will help with absorbing the information (kinesthetic learning).

It took a little effort to arrive at where you are, it will take more time to improve it. Many Tuggers have had similar experiences, but  improved their situations with effort.

My advice is in agreement with prior posts:

1. Refinance as soon as possible. A secured loan via a credit union (consider joining one) at ~ 4% (depending on your credit score) will make a difference. Some credit unions offer "share loans". That is, you can borrow against your savings at a low rate. Of course, you cannot access the balance owed in your savings. Some credit unions offer a loan against a stock certificate (must be in certificate form) or a secured loan against an automobile that is owned outright by you. Investigate these things, but understand what you are getting into thoroughly.

2. You have a good timeshare in a highly desirable area. Rent it out to offset costs. We can help you to learn how to rent it out, but please be more open to this as well as following the advice of experienced timeshare owners.

Note: I rent out one of my Hyatts and it pays for the maintenance fee ($1530) and the rest is applied back to what to the principle. Actually, it is paid back to my savings account as I paid cash, but it is paying for itself. Same thing.

3. Rescue those points.

Not trying to rub salt in the wound, but when you see this , "seek legal advice" before entering into a binding contract, heed the advice. I realize that this was signed by your then fiancée (if I understand you post correctly) now wife, but take this forward. 

There are ways to better your situation and we're here to assist.


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## Jimmydef1 (Nov 28, 2015)

*Stop Paying*

I would stop paying and write a letter to the credit bureau(s) and explain
what happened.   Is your credit worth 100K ?    I wouldn't give those timeshare jerks a cent more.


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## Jason245 (Nov 28, 2015)

Jimmydef1 said:


> I would stop paying and write a letter to the credit bureau(s) and explain
> what happened.   Is your credit worth 100K ?    I wouldn't give those timeshare jerks a cent more.



Says the guy who made an account special for this one post...


:deadhorse:


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## taterhed (Nov 28, 2015)

Hmmm.

So, If I go down to my local Lexus dealer and let the salesman talk me into buying that RC F  coupe (OMG ) that I deserve (because i work so hard) and that it will restore my (lost) mid-life crisis mojo.....
And, if I decide (a year or two later) that I can't afford $1000 a month for 120 months (making the car outrageously expensive; especially considering the maintenance) then....
I should hire a lawyer to make them let me 'give back' the car???
Have I got that right?

I'm not being mean here.  The sales tactics at some locations do border on the criminal (and car dealers).  People do get convinced to buy things on credit that they can't afford (cars, timeshares wives..oops, forget that last one).  But car dealers (and expensive cars) are not scams.  Timeshares, which have much longer lives and much higher fees, are not scams either.  

As my dad said to me:  if you made a mistake, don't cry about it, fix it. IMHO.
By the way....I'm hoping that everyone who 'sues' the developers isn't successful (sorry OP).  If they are, then my timeshare will probably be worthless and void--sooner, rather than later.


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## Passepartout (Nov 28, 2015)

After one achieves the ripe old age of 18,  one is allowed to make contractual agreements as an adult. There are protections in place - usury, fair credit reporting act, every state has a cooling off period, before certain sales- like timeshares- become final. 

Taking on a 16% note for a luxury good that may or may not have been appropriate, on impulse, then not researching to find it's cost vs. value while there is time to remedy the purchase was (imo) where this one left the tracks.

Not knowing the whole financial, and personal picture of the OP couple, it's hard to make anything but general recommendations. One thing I haven't seen suggested that my attorney DW brought up is the possibility of the wife in this case, who made the purchase alone, declaring personal bankruptcy. It would depend on several circumstances, but since her indebtedness, before the marriage shouldn't drag down the combined assets of the couple. Qualified local counsel should be consulted if this can be considered.

Jim


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## crazydive (Nov 28, 2015)

vacationhopeful said:


> I can only image WHY your wife is in tears ... if you are this angry at US here on a internet BBS ... what are you saying and communicating to YOUR BRIDE? She was most likely legally misled by some very slick salesperson(s) ... either accept it or go see a lawyer to annul the marriage (might have way better luck at that than cancelling her timeshare).
> 
> If you decide she is WORTH KEEPING, realize this marriage is a for better or worse & sickness in health (and bank accounts) ...
> 
> Take a timeout ... a chill pill ... talk to a REAL professional marriage therapist. Talk to an OLDER male family member ...  get an understanding you are NOT the first spouse to have a PURCHASE (contract) issue in your marriage. You will encounter far GREATER issues in martial life than a timeshare purchase ... cancer, sick children, dementia, job losses, natural disasters (like hurricanes), car accidents, affair(s), demotions, relocations, boat/sports car purchase.



I seriously appreciate all comments here, and some are very constructive to me. It may help in our situation except yours - please read last part of your comment and use it - just don't post anything judging people who are already in troubles, they don't need critics like yours


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## crazydive (Nov 28, 2015)

Beaglemom3 said:


> Not a scam.
> 
> You've received great advice here, so tackle this. Take a deep breath, settle  down and clear your mind, think logically, put away the emotion/turmoil and write down these things (advice from Tuggers ) in a notebook._ Writing these things down _will help with absorbing the information (kinesthetic learning).
> 
> ...



I will seriously reconsider to keep it and take all these valuable advice, and learn how to use it as it kills me to lose already paid $12k. I never saw so much money at once :-/  I have many dreams, small dreams, and I can't afford them at all so... I have to make a smart decision.

I contacted Ron Parise and I would love to try that path, especially if other people could learn more, and I hope it will not harm me to try that. *Now it is important for administrators to accept his term.*

I have to admit I feel a bit better now. Nothing really changed however it's good to know that there is some hope, option to minimize that crazy cost, maybe even rent it and have some decent and knowledgeable support here.

*Thank you all*


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## Beaglemom3 (Nov 28, 2015)

crazydive said:


> I will seriously reconsider to keep it and take all these valuable advice, and learn how to use it as it kills me to lose already paid $12k. I never saw so much money at once :-/  I have many dreams, small dreams, and I can't afford them at all so... I have to make a smart decision.
> 
> I contacted Ron Prise and I would love to try that path, especially if other people could learn more, and I hope it will not harm me to try that. *Now it is important for administrators to accept his term.*
> 
> ...



Crazy,
  Ron is experienced and well-versed in timeshares. Hope this works for you. 

   If it doesn't work out, then remember there are ways to improve the situation to a more livable arrangement. 

  Many of us have our buyer's remorse stories, but yours is an especially harsh one. 
  Still, you can make some lemonade (or Margaritas) from the lemon of deal. Your timeshare is a particularly good one (not a lemon, only the price and % rate), so you have that going for you. Thankfully, it's not in Orlando ! 

In conclusion:  
Suggestions: If you own your own home, you may want to consider a home equity loan or seek a secured personal loan.
                    Rent it, vigorously. It will pay for the annual MF and the rest can be applied towards the principle. 

  Hang in there. Be kind to yourself.

  All the best.


=


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## Janann (Nov 28, 2015)

deleted.......


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## dsmrp (Nov 28, 2015)

vacationhopeful said:


> ....
> Take a timeout ... a chill pill ... talk to a REAL professional marriage therapist. Talk to an OLDER male family member ...  get an understanding you are NOT the first spouse to have a PURCHASE (contract) issue in your marriage. You will encounter far GREATER issues in martial life than a timeshare purchase ... cancer, sick children, dementia, job losses, natural disasters (like hurricanes), car accidents, affair(s), demotions, relocations, boat/sports car purchase.





crazydive said:


> I seriously appreciate all comments here, and some are very constructive to me. It may help in our situation except yours - please read last part of your comment and use it - just don't post anything judging people who are already in troubles, they don't need critics like yours





crazydive said:


> I will seriously reconsider to keep it and take all these valuable advice, and learn how to use it as it kills me to lose already paid $12k. ....
> 
> I have to admit I feel a bit better now. Nothing really changed however it's good to know that there is some hope, option to minimize that crazy cost, maybe even rent it and have some decent and knowledgeable support here.
> *Thank you all*



IMHO vacationhopeful's advice to talk to an older or trusted family member was good advice, to get a different perspective.  Crazydive, several people (strangers really) have given you good and very generous suggestions to help you in your situation. Please remember the "decent and knowledgeable support here" on these forums is entirely voluntary, and on people's free time.

Unfortunately the annulment period of your timeshare contract is legally past. If Ron P's suggestion does not pan out for whatever reasons, then sounds like renting would be the next option to reduce your net out of pocket cost. At any rate, get all the HGVC points that you are entitled to and paying for, even if you have to pay a small fee more to prevent them from expiring on Jan 1. 

Good luck!


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## Jason245 (Nov 28, 2015)

crazydive said:


> I seriously appreciate all comments here, and some are very constructive to me. It may help in our situation except yours - please read last part of your comment and use it - just don't post anything judging people who are already in troubles, they don't need critics like yours


It looks like you are going through the stages of grief and it is completely understandable.  

Financial arguments are probably the number one killer of marriages in this country, and no matter what happens know that she was buying this as an investment in your mutual relationship.  She may have overpaid,  and it might not be perfect,  but I guarantee you that your visits to the hilton club in new York or the other hgvc properties will never disappoint.  There are many on TUG who would gladly exhange a week in a top quality resort in Hawaii or florida for a week in the hilton club new york. 

The money part sux, but the older you get the more you realize that alone time with your loved ones in a great location and on a great property is priceless.  



Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N910A using Tapatalk


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## chuckisthatyou (Nov 29, 2015)

*The bonus points can be converted to Hilton Honors*

I am not sure how the points are defined in your case, but the bonus points can be converted to Hilton Honors points and they will stay in there *almost* indefinitely (there is some fine print about this, but I have never had any disappear!).  I would move the bonus points expiring in 2015 to Hilton Honors at 25:1 (I too wish it was the 50:1 that normal points get for W57th Street).  Then any regular yearly points for 2015, I would rescue (as someone suggested).  That gets you to the regular/bonus points for 2016 and moving forward.  I would consider (and you have till the end of December 2015) moving my 2016 points to Hilton Honors (at 50:1) and holding on to the bonus points until later in the year for 2016 in case I could use them.  As closer to the end of 2016 comes, the more I consider moving to Hilton Honors.  At that point, you can stay at wherever Hilton has a property.  I have never seen the points in Hilton Honors expire, even after years of sitting in there.

However, since I do not really understand how your points are distributed, these are my suggestions.  BTW, I also own at W57th and bought from the developer.  The above is the approach that I have used to make the most of my HGVC points.

Best of Luck!


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## TUGBrian (Nov 29, 2015)

> To that end, and if you want to find out too, Ill pay his fee for you. But only if TugBrian, Denise and SueDon will agree to let me post the results (good or bad outcome) when he either succeeds or fails. And if successful, you can pay me back (or not) later.



TUG does not support the use of entities that charge significant upfront fees based on promises and guarantees to cancel/relieve/dispose of/sell/rent/whatever someones timeshare.  Unless said "lawyer" has changed their business model, this sort of advertising would not be permitted on TUG.

you are of course welcome to follow through on your kind-hearted gesture to the OP, unless your intent was to merely get some advertising for your recently made lawyer friend.  


to the OP, im curious as to what efforts you have made thusfar in the last 12 months of ownership to contact hilton yourself to demand/ask/plead for you to be released from your contract?   or have you just continued to pay the loan?


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## TUGBrian (Nov 30, 2015)

well, this argument is clearly going nowhere and my original post appears to have been ignored...so ill leave it as the last one in the thread.

I wish you the best of luck, given your multiple posts you appear well aware of your options moving forward.


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