# No purpose in exchanging for points anymore!



## JonP (Dec 31, 2006)

I see no purpose now for exchanging points and in my view this devalues the MR program.

TORONTO and WASHINGTON, Dec. 28 /PRNewswire-FirstCall/ - Members of
Marriott Rewards(R), Marriott International, Inc.'s (NYSE:MAR)
award-winning loyalty program, who need those few extra points to go on
their dream vacation, can now purchase Marriott Rewards points online
through a new partnership with Points International, Ltd. (TSX: PTS; OTCBB:
PTSEF). This new service uses Points International's e-Commerce Buy and
Gift web-based platform to simplify the process.
At a cost of $10 per 1,000 points, members can purchase points as a
gift for other members or supplement those they have already earned
ensuring they get their choice of over 250 awards. For more information or
to purchase points, members can visit http://points.marriott.com.
"We are very pleased to be able to help Marriott Rewards members reach
their reward goals faster," said Rob MacLean, CEO of Points International.
"It is a pleasure to be working with one of the largest hotel reward
programs in the world."
"We are always looking for new ways to bring value and convenience to
our members and this partnership with Points.com makes it easier for them
to get those last few points needed for their free vacation or whatever
award they desire," said Ed French, Marriott Rewards senior vice president
of customer relationship marketing.
Marriott Rewards membership is free, and allows members to earn points
or airline miles for every dollar they spend at nine Marriott International
lodging brands. Points can be redeemed for free hotel stays, merchandise,
rental cars, cruises, adventure travel tours, theme park tickets and more.
For information about Marriott Rewards or to enroll, call (800)
249-0800, visit the front desk of participating hotels, or log onto
marriottrewards.com.


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## JoeMO (Dec 31, 2006)

*Points Value*

The above info can be used to say that $1 buys 100 points.  So if Marriott is giving you 100,000 points to buy a resort they are giving you $1,000.  This makes sense becasue if you were to buy $100 worth of points you would get 10,000 points.  That amount of points is what you would need for one night in a category 2 hotel, which would cost about $100 if you paid cash instead of using points.  

The only benefit I see is if you buy enough points for a whole week.  If you bought 55,000 for $550 you could get a 7 days at a cat 2.  It would cost about $700 to buy a week at a cat 2.  Saving you $150.


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## ondeadlin (Dec 31, 2006)

It's certainly a devalution for timeshare owners.

I mean, seriously, why would I pay $700-$1,000 in MF and trade my week for 110,000 points (or less) when I could just pay $1,000 for 100,000 points without spending big money to acquire a timeshare week from the developer?

I'm sure some of the points traders on here will find some way to justify it, but it seems nuts to me.


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## lweverett (Dec 31, 2006)

The news release refers to a limited amount of points to reach a total for an award.  You have always been able to purchase up to 10% of the points necessary if you were short - so I don't see any change except the ability to do so on line.


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## m61376 (Dec 31, 2006)

well, the question is whether or not the maximum number of points you can purchase is 99,000. There is a limit per transaction- BUT- can you make more than one transaction? For example, if I had let's say 52,000 points- could I purchase 99,000 points, wait a few days, and then purchase 99,000 additional points, to then buy a 250,000 point travel award voucher?


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## dougp26364 (Dec 31, 2006)

I agree that it would make little sense to exchange at least some resorts for points now. For instance, I believe my GC 3 bedroom unit only gets 90,000 MR points and our MF's are a little over $1,100. 

Now, I can purchase 90,000 points for $900. Seems to me my 3 bedroom week isn't worth the 90,000 points. It certainly takes the sales edge away that you can trade your week for points.


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## Dave M (Dec 31, 2006)

It doesn't change the essence of your comment, but the 3BR Platinum Grand Chateau trades for 100,000 points. The 2BR trades for 90,000 points.


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## steve b (Dec 31, 2006)

*And don't forget about the Marriott Visa and Combining accounts*

If you purchase 99000 points for 990.00 and pay with your Marriott Visa you get an additional 4950 MR points for a total of 103950, more points than some folks get for turning in their timeshare week.  If you use these points for the 250k package awards you are really ahead of the game.  Also consider other family accounts and purchase the 99k points limits in each of them and then combine them to claim a 250k award as allowable under the rules and buy resale Marriotts instead.


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## steve b (Dec 31, 2006)

Correction, actually 1 point per Dollar spent on Visa for this program as per Marriott's website.


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## MarTN (Jan 1, 2007)

I've spent a little time searching but cannot find how often you may make a transaction.  Also, I cannot find a limit such as "no more than 10%" of an award can be from purchased points.  There is a SkyMall restriction.

Program Rules 

• You may purchase up to 99,000 points per transaction
• Points may be purchased in increments of 1,000
• Purchase rate is 10 (USD) per 1,000 points
• Points may take 24-48 hours to post to your account 

• Please allow 24-48 hours for transaction to be completed and points awarded to recipient.
• You must be a Marriott Rewards member in good standing to both purchase and receive points.
• Points cannot be purchased, nor transferred, for merchandise rewards offered through SkyMall.
• Purchasing points with the Marriott Rewards Visa® card will result in earning one point per dollar spent on these transactions.


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## 1sland (Jan 1, 2007)

MarTN said:


> I've spent a little time searching but cannot find how often you may make a transaction. Also, I cannot find a limit such as "no more than 10%" of an award can be from purchased points. There is a SkyMall restriction.
> 
> Program Rules
> 
> ...


 

Regarding Purchasing Points In the t/c of the MR program: It looks like you could make the transaction as long as you are redeeming a reward and you don't have enough points. I seem to recall, in the past you could only purchase 10% or less of your total package, in increments of 1,000.







Purchasing Points




A member may purchase points for reward requests (up to 99,000 points) when he/she does not have enough points to request a specific reward.
Points can not be purchased nor transferred for merchandise rewards offered through SkyMall.
Points may be purchased at the rate of $10 per 1,000 points.


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## dougp26364 (Jan 1, 2007)

Dave M said:


> It doesn't change the essence of your comment, but the 3BR Platinum Grand Chateau trades for 100,000 points. The 2BR trades for 90,000 points.



I guess maybe I was thinking about the "special offer" to purchase MR points in lieu of usage on our latest purchase of the corresponding EOY unit to our original unit. Our usage for the new purchase doen't start until 2009. Our original purchase was an even year usage.


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## m61376 (Jan 1, 2007)

steve b said:


> If you purchase 99000 points for 990.00 and pay with your Marriott Visa you get an additional 4950 MR points for a total of 103950, more points than some folks get for turning in their timeshare week.  If you use these points for the 250k package awards you are really ahead of the game.  Also consider other family accounts and purchase the 99k points limits in each of them and then combine them to claim a 250k award as allowable under the rules and buy resale Marriotts instead.



The question I have is can you purchase up to the allowable 99K points in 2 spousal accounts and then combine and/or, according to the rules posted on the new release, can you simply buy 99K points, wait a few days, and then purchase  the remainder (which would, in essence, be like trading in 2 weeks for points)? Unless I am misreading something (very possible) it doesn't seem like the new rules restrict the point purchases to buying only when trying to complete an amount necessary to redeem an award.

In this case even those who bought from the developer and can trade for points might want to rethink doing so, since the cost is approx. the same as the trade cost (MF's + trade fee), but trading involves giving up use of the timeshare for the year, which has inherent value. Wouldn't it be better, in this case, even to rent the timeshare if not using it and simply purchase points through this program?


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## Y-ASK (Jan 1, 2007)

For what it's worth, We've been considering a Marriott purchase for sometime now.  I just signed up with the rewards program, got my membership number, and then purchased 99,000 points for $990.00.  At the end of the transaction I was presented with the option to make another transaction.  Looks like I could have bought another 51,000 to round out my 7 day vacation in a 2 Bdr. villa and I'm in.  I don't think you have to wait anytime at all.  Maybe I will purchase the remaining 51K later today.

Y-ASK


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## Y-ASK (Jan 1, 2007)

Just to add, decide to make another purchase and got the 51K pts no problem.  Now let's see if I can get a reservation .

Y-ASK


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## JonP (Jan 3, 2007)

ondeadlin said:


> It's certainly a devalution for timeshare owners.
> 
> I mean, seriously, why would I pay $700-$1,000 in MF and trade my week for 110,000 points (or less) when I could just pay $1,000 for 100,000 points without spending big money to acquire a timeshare week from the developer?
> 
> I'm sure some of the points traders on here will find some way to justify it, but it seems nuts to me.




There is no justification.....it's just NUTS!!!!

I have always believed the point’s option (from personnel experience) was terrific, providing much flexibility to ownership and therefore I would always buy direct (pre-construction).  However, I see absolutely no point now and think this will seriously harm potential sales for MVCI (who vigorously promote the point’s option), also this totally devalues the program for existing owners.  No doubt the annual reward redemption review due soon will further add to the issue unless Marriott also reviews the award points offered for trading your week which is highly unlikely.


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## m61376 (Jan 3, 2007)

JonP said:


> There is no justification.....it's just NUTS!!!!
> 
> I have always believed the point’s option (from personnel experience) was terrific, providing much flexibility to ownership and therefore I would always buy direct (pre-construction).  However, I see absolutely no point now and think this will seriously harm potential sales for MVCI (who vigorously promote the point’s option), also this totally devalues the program for existing owners.  No doubt the annual reward redemption review due soon will further add to the issue unless Marriott also reviews the award points offered for trading your week which is highly unlikely.



I agree that it is a surprising loophole. However, I doubt there will be an impact on MVCI sales. Most people who are savvy enough to find out about that also know about Tug; the average person attending a sales presentation is unaware of the resale market and, I would venture to guess, unaware of the ability to purchase the points for the same cost as trading the unit (actually, a lower cost I think, since you are not giving up use of something which has inherent value).

Yes- there are exceptions- there are people such as yourself that have and will continue to purchase from the developer because they like the points option (and that may now reconsider doing so), but the vast majority of Tuggers would buy resale unless they were taking advantage of pre-construction pricing coupled with large point incentives (as you have and that may still represent a good value). So, while there may be a few who reconsider a developer purchase, I don't think it will really affect sales.

I think Marriott is doing it to boost Marriott hotel use. People who buy points are committed to using Marriott hotels. Let's face it, Marriott makes money on hotel occupancy and the use of all the ancillary services that most people, even those using points, use. From personal observation (talking to friends, etc.) most people tend to use a hotel award certificate but are unaware of the advantage of using a travel package. While buying enough points for a travel award voucher may be a good deal, I am not sure that an award certificate is such a bargain. 

If the majority of people were really educated about the program and savvy as to maximizing its benefits (like Brian and several others here) then, I agree, that it would be bad for Marriott and may impact timeshare owners as well. Maybe I am not giving the general public enough credit, but I just don't think that's the case.

Of course, this makes be even happier that I listened to all the great advice here and bought resale :whoopie: !


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## korndoc (Jan 3, 2007)

m61376 said:


> most people tend to use a hotel award certificate but are unaware of the advantage of using a travel award voucher. While buying enough points for a travel award voucher may be a good deal, I am not sure that an award certificate is such a bargain.



I do not own a Marriott.  What is the difference between a Hotel Award Certificate and a Travel Award Voucher?  Does the Voucher refer to combined hotel and air fare packages?  I thought you had to own a Marriott ts to take advantage of that.

Also, if I read this correctly, I could go on a 7 day vacation at a 2 bedroom Marriott ts villa, if available, for 150,000 points.  That would cost $1500.  That is not too much more than the annual MF at many resorts + taxes + II annual membership fee + II exchange fees!  Why even bother to buy a resale or rent from an owner?

Jeff


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## Dave M (Jan 3, 2007)

I also wasn't sure what a "travel award voucher" is. However, from reading m's earlier post it seems clear she intends it to mean what Marriott calls a "Travel Package", which normally consists of FF miles deposited into your airline FF account and a stay for up to 7 nights in a Marriott hotel.

Assuming you can use the FF miles, the math makes the Travel Package a much better deal than a solo hotel certificate.

You don't need to own a Marriott timeshare to request any of the Marriott Rewards awards. All you need is enough Marriott Rewards points to select the one of your choice. Here is the Marriott page for Travel Packages.


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## korndoc (Jan 3, 2007)

WOW!  

I just got off the phone with Marriott Reward support.  She said the 10% rule is an old rule and is no longer in use.

I asked her if I could buy these points and make a reservation at any of the timeshares and she said yes, subject of course to availability.  She even suggested I find out if there was availability before purchasing the points.

I asked if I could try to make that reservation a year out and she said I could.  I don't know if I would get confirmation at that time, however, or if I would be put on a hold/wait list like a timeshare exchanger, however.

Jeff


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## korndoc (Jan 3, 2007)

Dave M said:


> "Travel Package", which normally consists of FF miles deposited into your airline FF account and a stay for up to 7 nights in a Marriott hotel.
> 
> Assuming you can use the FF miles, the math makes the Travel Package a much better deal than a solo hotel certificate.



Thanks Dave.  So if the FF miles are deposited in MY airline FF account, does that mean I can add miles with my credit card or travel to increase to a Business class, or a further coach trip?

Jeff


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## Dave M (Jan 3, 2007)

Once those FF miles are in your account (the same one you probably already have for your favorite airline), they belong to you and are treated the same as any other FF miles you earn in that account. So the answer is "yes". 

Also the FF miles will expire based on the policy of that FF program (e.g., 3 years for UA and AA, 2 years for DL and 18 months for US, unless you have some activity in the account during that period).


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## Eric (Jan 3, 2007)

95% of all Marriott timeshares are impossible to use points to get into.
Nice plan, $1500 to rent Aruba Platinum or Maui or KoOlina, NEVER HAPPEN 



korndoc said:


> WOW!
> 
> I just got off the phone with Marriott Reward support.  She said the 10% rule is an old rule and is no longer in use.
> 
> ...


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## JonP (Jan 4, 2007)

Eric said:


> 95% of all Marriott timeshares are impossible to use points to get into.
> Nice plan, $1500 to rent Aruba Platinum or Maui or KoOlina, NEVER HAPPEN



It may be very difficult but it is technically possible.  What about all the owners who do not own premium weeks but still pay the same level of MF's.   I have introduced MVCI to several friends who have bought (in most cases multiple weeks)...not anymore.


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## Eric (Jan 4, 2007)

Anything is possible but so is hitting the lottery. Except for Orlando and off season, you will not see villas for points.





JonP said:


> It may be very difficult but it is technically possible.  What about all the owners who do not own premium weeks but still pay the same level of MF's.   I have introduced MVCI to several friends who have bought (in most cases multiple weeks)...not anymore.


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## KenK (Jan 4, 2007)

So, even those MVCI weeks & hotel units & packages that might have been a bit easy to get into using points will now become much more difficult, as memberst start buying points to use instead of cash.?


Flexibility will help. (Like having no kids in school or being retired)

So, many will have more points, but they may be pretty useless?


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## JonP (Jan 4, 2007)

With the ability now to purchase so many points I cannot see how Marriott can continue to promote trading weeks for points as a benefit (this could be construed as miss-selling!).  This option has been a major element (particularly travel packages) of every presentation and talk I have been to.  In fact during my past two visits to Club Son Antem, including this Xmas, the sales reps are promoting specific ownership portfolios as ‘points machines’.  I recently swapped my 3bed Gold at Playa Andaluza for points (110K) towards two travel packages; no way would I do this again when I can now simply purchase.

Furthermore, this easy route to points (especially when used for packages) can only lead to further limited availability of award hotel stays and air travel and accelerated devaluation of MR points and the MR program in general.  I am also an elite platinum member and have over the past few years collected a significant number of points; guess I’ve been lucky to have cashed them in annually and haven’t got a stack banked.

I really can’t understand how Marriott can benefit from such a scheme as this doesn’t promote brand loyalty which is the object of all award programs.


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## Dave M (Jan 4, 2007)

There is some evidence that this new points-purchase program was not well thought out by Marriott. It appears that the program was put in place as a way to generate revenue for Marriott _without_ giving full consideration to the adverse effect that it might have on MVCI timeshare sales. 

The same issues raised in this thread have been discussed internally by MVCI executives since Marriott put the program in place. It’s worth noting that the program was put in place by Marriott, not by MVCI, which represents less than 15% of Marriott’s total revenues. It’s not clear to me whether any key people at MVCI were consulted in advance of the program implementation.

Stay tuned. I think it's possible that there will be some revisions to the points-purchase program in the months to come. Along those lines, if you think you might want to take advantage of the purchase program, don't assume it will exist in its present form indefinitely.


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## JonP (Jan 5, 2007)

Dave M

It certainly is the case that the new points-purchase program was not well thought out by Marriott.

Your post is in encouraging that this will be sorted out in due course and hopefully this will also highlight the shortfall now offered in swapping for points due to the large MF increases that have recently prevailed.

Thanks

JonP


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## McFail (Jan 5, 2007)

The weakness in the whole TS to points scheme is that the points are not indexed into the Marriott Rewards program. 

The MR program is prone to natural point inflation because base earning is tied to $$$ spent. In 30 years we'll be paying 2x for rooms and getting 2X the points and probably needing 2X the number of points to redeem the same reward while our TS costs go up and the points remain constant. 

FF miles are fixed for the most part as long as a mile flown stays a mile earned and therefore are not as subject cost inflation.


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## Y-ASK (Jan 5, 2007)

From what I've been reading on this forum ownership does not sound all that great unless you purchase a Platinum Plus type ownership where you get the most desirable fixed week every year.  I mean I know everyone wants to be flexable but why would I purchase a Platinum ownership and then have to fight with every other plantinum owner to make a reservation exactly 12 months to the day before I would like to check in.  I mean it sounds to me that if I missed that very short window there's probably no chance of getting a reservation.  Marriott's answer seems to be purchase another timeshare and get the 13 month window.  And other enterpising owners will try to beat this by trying to reserve a week early by trying to tie two reservations together at the same time.

I'm not disappointed that I purchased those points.  I just reserved a one night stay in Florence S.C. right before the 4th of July week and it cost me 1000 points or $100.00 and nothing else.  No taxes, etc.  So for the $100.00 I paid for the points I'm getting a room that I'm sure would have cost me over $100.00 (probably over $150.00) if I were to have paid cash.

By the way I was told that I can try and reserve at a MVCI property at the 11.5 month mark so someone who just owns points is at a slight dis-advantage to the MVCI owners.  I can't get anything for this summer but who knows, if I start calling in June I might get something for next summer 08.

Y-ASK


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## wuv pooh (Jan 5, 2007)

Y-ASK said:


> By the way I was told that I can try and reserve at a MVCI property at the 11.5 month mark so someone who just owns points is at a slight dis-advantage to the MVCI owners.  I can't get anything for this summer but who knows, if I start calling in June I might get something for next summer 08.
> 
> Y-ASK



You are comparing two different things.  You can get MVCI properties for points, but it is difficult.  The only available inventory is Marriott inventory, which is small to begin with, and then what they might make available for points redemption.  For sold out resorts the only possible option is weeks turned in for points or rent to Marriott.  Presumably it is better for Marriott to rent these for cash if possible.  For resorts under construction you have a better chance.  You also have a better chance for off season rooms in areas like Orlando.  You will not see many/if any prime weeks for points.


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## iamnotshopgirl (Jan 5, 2007)

In the last few months Marriott has changed their rental policy and now they are changing the point policy. I am new to T/S and Marriott. I have only been an owner for the past three years. But when I bought pre-construction at the Aruba Surf Club renting and exchanging for points effected my decison to buy. Now my weeks that I have reserved for the last couple of years which are the last week  of June and 4th of July week do not even make their rental list and to trade for points (90,000) a $900 value seems like a real good incentive for a 2BR unit that can fetch more than 3k if I rent it on my own. I wonder what the pitch is for buying developer now rather than resale? "Vacation experience" and the pleasure of paying thousands more to the developer? Maybe I should sell and hopefully like a prior thread about ROFR for the Surf Club take the 15.5K per week and call it a day. Or maybe I should reconsider the Grand Chateau at developer price because Marriott has been sooooo good to me. Hopefully, somebody will review the policy and make a change otherwise IMHO there is no point buying from the developer...resale is the way to go.

bob


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## Eric (Jan 5, 2007)

A prime week will never happen.


By the way I was told that I can try and reserve at a MVCI property at the 11.5 month mark so someone who just owns points is at a slight dis-advantage to the MVCI owners.  I can't get anything for this summer but who knows, if I start calling in June I might get something for next summer 08.

Y-ASK[/QUOTE]


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## Y-ASK (Jan 5, 2007)

wuv pooh said:


> You are comparing two different things.  You can get MVCI properties for points, but it is difficult.  The only available inventory is Marriott inventory, which is small to begin with, and then what they might make available for points redemption.  For sold out resorts the only possible option is weeks turned in for points or rent to Marriott.  Presumably it is better for Marriott to rent these for cash if possible.  For resorts under construction you have a better chance.  You also have a better chance for off season rooms in areas like Orlando.  You will not see many/if any prime weeks for points.


Really?  Now don't I feel like a dumb newbe !  Here I was thinking that there was only one inventory available for both owners and reward users.  I guess it's kind of like Disney and DVC where Disney has a small precentage of DVC rooms at DVC resorts that they let go to the general public for cash.

So if I was totally confused/wrong about reward points   what about the other part about not being able to get a reservation at the 12 month mark.  With DVC there is a very good chance you will get exactly what you want at the 11 month mark at your home resort.  Does Marriott have such a deal.  I mean if I buy Platinum at OceanWatch does someone who owns Platinum at Manor Club have the same 12 month reservation window at Oceanwatch like I would?

Y-ASK


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## Dave M (Jan 5, 2007)

Y-ASK said:


> I mean if I buy Platinum at OceanWatch does someone who owns Platinum at Manor Club have the same 12 month reservation window at Oceanwatch like I would?


Let's assume you buy that Platinum week (or any other week) at OceanWatch. You can call to reserve your week exactly 12 months in advance of the weekend for when you want to check in. 

Owners at other resorts can't reserve at OceanWatch. So you don't compete against them. If an owner at Manor Club wants to stay at OceanWatch, that owner must reserve a week at Manor, deposit it with II and request an exchange into OceanWatch. Only if you or another OceanWatch owner deposits a week with II will that Manor owner have a chance to exchange into OceanWatch.


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## Y-ASK (Jan 5, 2007)

So at the 12 month mark I'm only really competeing with other Oceanwatch Platinum owners...  That sounds great but do they over sell the properties?  What I mean is, if there are 1000 reservation weeks (just an example number) available in the Platinum Class, can they sell 1500 Platinum timeshare weeks so you end up fighting with an extra 500 owners for the same 1000 weeks during the summer.  Again thinking of an Oceanwatch type deal...

Y-ASk


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## wuv pooh (Jan 5, 2007)

Y-ASK said:


> So at the 12 month mark I'm only really competeing with other Oceanwatch Platinum owners...  That sounds great but do they over sell the properties?  What I mean is, if there are 1000 reservation weeks (just an example number) available in the Platinum Class, can they sell 1500 Platinum timeshare weeks so you end up fighting with an extra 500 owners for the same 1000 weeks during the summer.  Again thinking of an Oceanwatch type deal...
> 
> Y-ASk



No, that is illegal.  The problem in a floating week system like Marriott is that you are potentially competing with all owners in your season for prime weeks.  For example, if Platinum season is 16 weeks in the summer, but everyone wants to book July 4th week then 15 weeks of owners will be disappointed.  50% of the inventory can be reserved at 13 months by multiple week owners, so it is not unusual for prime weeks to be fully reserved within minutes of 9am on the start date.


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## Dave M (Jan 5, 2007)

wuv pooh said:


> No, that is illegal.


Agreed. That's one reason for having deeded weeks. Your deed will be the only one that shows ownership of week # XX for unit # YYYY at OceanWatch. Since those deeds are recorded in the local governmental deeds registry, it's an easy matter to verify that the developer hasn't violated the law by selling another week for what you already own!

Explaining: Even though you buy a Marriott floating week, your deed will show a specific week and unit. That info is for deed purposes only and gives you no advantages or disadvantages in reserving the week of your choice each year.


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## m61376 (Jan 5, 2007)

Y-ASK said:


> So at the 12 month mark I'm only really competeing with other Oceanwatch Platinum owners...  That sounds great but do they over sell the properties?  What I mean is, if there are 1000 reservation weeks (just an example number) available in the Platinum Class, can they sell 1500 Platinum timeshare weeks so you end up fighting with an extra 500 owners for the same 1000 weeks during the summer.  Again thinking of an Oceanwatch type deal...
> 
> Y-ASk



No- they can only sell each available unit once.

The real issue arises when the Platinum season is longer than most people want- in some areas, for ex., the Platinum season extends from May or June-Sept. and almost everyone is vying for the school vacation weeks.
Platinum for Hawaii at Ko'Olina, for ex. is 50 weeks out of the year. More people want summer weeks than are available- hence, not everyone is going to be happy every year, even if they call at 12 months out (esp. if they wait till mid-August so if they don't get it the first try, they don't have another desirable week to try for the following week they can reserve). It seems to be that people who have their hearts set on certain week(s) are the ones who get frustrated with the system.


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## jerseyfinn (Jan 5, 2007)

*not time to panic*

Airlines have FF programs and hotels have their point systems. Initially these programs are created to develop brand loyalty. Lately, hotels and airlines realize that these points are a commodity that can become a revenue stream. Hence credit cards which offer points and programs which purchase more than air travel or a hotel room with the points. This move by Marriott is not a surprise. Neither does it mean that the MVCI MR points option necessarily goes out the window.

The MR points option of MVCI has always had its own individual calculus. That is, *how many points does one receive for their MF paid *when one opts for the MR points? *This *has always determined if one should ponder a MVCI points strategy or not. If your MF were too high ( in excess of $1000 ) it becomes more difficult to mine out sufficient value from this strategy. This part of the game has not changed one iota.

If anything, the new MR policy reminds all of us what the game has always been about and reenforces the thought that if your MF are over $1000, one might be better to opt for the straight cash buy out if MR points are what you crave.

That said, $700 to $900 for a MF which nets 100K to 110K is still a better deal than MR is offering the general public.

I agree that over time, the entire MR program has undergone a devaluation ( but I'm getting older myself and my knees are also undergoing devaluation -- that's part of the process too ). A better question to ask is just how is MVCI going to entice developer sales now that MR are a more fluid commodity to everyone outside of MVCI? Given higher MFs across the board, most of we platinum folks will eventually cross the $1000 Rubicon mark anyhow. So experienced owners who add weeks will be wise to ponder resales or to haggle hard and steady for significantly more purchase incentive points.

Lets see if Marriott and MVCI try to sit on their hands and hope no one is paying attention. If enough folks eschew developer, MVCI might just have to sweeten the deal. In the mean time, we all have our inidividual ownership goals and we need only evaluate them from time to time. Afterall, we bought for the destination and MR points added flexibility.  MVCI is indeed cramping our style a bit, but they have not ruined the product (yet).

Barry


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## Y-ASK (Jan 5, 2007)

Ok, I think I understand system a little better now and since I can be pretty flexable throughout the summer I should at least be able to get a platinum week sometime before the schools start.

So now I've got these 140,000 rewards points.  As a non-owner (at least for a little while longer) how would you all make use of those points?  Any ideas for a spring time weekend get away.  I live in Maryland so it would probably have to be close to home...

Thanks for all your knowledge,
Y-ASK


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## AmyL4408 (Jan 5, 2007)

Y-ASK said:


> So now I've got these 140,000 rewards points.  As a non-owner (at least for a little while longer) how would you all make use of those points?  Any ideas for a spring time weekend get away.  I live in Maryland so it would probably have to be close to home...




I was in a quandry about whether or not to use my points this summer for a stay in Petoskey Michigan.    It was close to home, an extremely nice Marriott on the water!   I think rooms were going for $250+.     I really wanted to go, but would not have when if I had to pay for it.    So we used our points!   It was a lovely stay, and we have very nice memories.


Now I have used my points for 2 additional nights in Cancun,  added on to a II exchange.   We will be moving after 7 nights over to the Marriott Casa Magna,  the photos looked marvelous!    I think it was just over $300 for a night there,  so we are happy to get it for "free".


Some might not agree, but I think you could over analyze whether it a good point usage or bad point usage.    I think if it makes you happy,  then you should go for it!  Life is short, and you only live once


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## camachinist (Jan 5, 2007)

Rent week for 2500.00. Buy 2500.00 worth of points over multiple transactions/accounts. Baste and repeat often.

Short MAR stock.

Sell week.

Retire 



Pat


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## mas (Jan 7, 2007)

Except for what was mentioned earlier in this thread about the competition for MVCI weeks, it seems to me this program does one thing:  it allow anyone to obtain large point balances that one could use to "buy" time at MVCI timeshare locations.  

Up until now, you couldn't exchange  MVCI weeks for MR points, then turn around and use those points to stay in another MVCI resort.  So the only way to get large amount of points that were valid for use in staying at an MVCI resort was by actually staying at Marriott hotels or using a Marriott VISA ( you could also exchange points from another points program such as trading Amex Membership rewards points for Marriott MR points).  With this program, you can now simply purchase your points and have access into MVCI resorts.  

Of course any MVCI T/S owner can simply do a Marriott to Marriott trade thru II and accomplish the same thing! (My head hurts    I can't keep all the options straight!)


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## camachinist (Jan 7, 2007)

The upside is that the more complex they make the system, the more loopholes appear 

Pat


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## nycjimster (Jan 7, 2007)

*Questionable Changes*

Recently changes at Marriott has changed my view of Marriott timeshares.  First, it was the rental program.  I remember the salesperson raving about the profitable rental program.  The rental program was a third option to using the unit or trading in for points.  

Now I read about the ability to buy points.  To top it off, I get less points trading in my weeks for points than buying points off from Marriott with the maintence fee.  

If you had plan to buy Hawaii directly from Marriott you could alternate using one year and trading for points the following year.  With the new system, you should buy resale EOY to use, which will save you 40% off the Marriott retail price.  If you want points, you can just buy it.  To top it off, buying points will be cheaper than the cost of your maintenance plus fee to trade in your points.

These changes have negatively impact the value of Marriott timeshares.  Along with the increasing maintenance, I would tell people to stay away.  Marriott is becoming one of those crappy timeshares that ruin the reputation of timeshare.  I am lucky that I decided to sell 2 of my Marriott last year.  I plan to sell my remaining Marriott.


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## short (Jan 7, 2007)

*Marriott points presentation yesterday*

We toured at Marriott Ko Olina yesterday.  After about 20 min of chit chat of him trying to find out where we own and how we exchanged into a 2 bedroom here in January our salesman skipped right over trying to sell us Ko Olina(never even mentioned prices or asked if we wanted to buy) and went directly to offering there low budget offering which is New Jersey for $13,500 which can be trading in for 125,000 points every year.  Quoted Maint fee was $770 but I don't know if that was correct.  I did not ask which season it was as I was not interested in buying in NJ.

When doing the points presentation package he mainly discussed the travel award of 250,000 which includes the points to airline miles at 1 to 1 in your choise of airlines and a 7 night cert for Marriott cat ? .

He also mentioned the possibility of a higher award where 220,000 is included for 2 First class tickets.  I do not see this higher award on the web site listed in this tread.  Does one find out buy calling?

Do you have to be a Marriott owner or are these available to regular Marriott rewards accounts?  I am thinking this is a much less expensive way to acquire frequent flyer miles then buying direct from the airline?

Short


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## pwrshift (Jan 7, 2007)

To my knowledge you can only buy FF miles (without hotel certificates) in lots of 50,000 miles ... for 125,000 MR points.  Miles and points are quite different, so don't confuse them.  To fly to Hawaii business class 'usually' takes 75,000 FF miles each -- so for two people that amounts to 150,000 FF miles at a 'cost' of 375,000 MR points.

https://marriott.com/rewards/usepoints/moreairmi.mi

With the air&hotel pkgs you get Cat7 hotels & 120,000 FF miles for 270,000 MR points ... or the Cat7 pkg for 250,000 (a slightly better deal)...but both are considerably better than buying FF miles or hotel stays separately using MR points.

Comparing what you normally pay 'cash' for biz class compared to economy there is a difference sometimes as much as 500%.  However, using FF miles the difference is about 50% more miles.  Therein lies the difference in 'value'.  While you don't 'need' to fly economy for the 10 hr flight from NYC to Hawaii, it sure is nicer in business class for such long flights!  

*IF* your rep was correct with a $700 MF (don't forget to add the $104 fee to trade for points) getting 125,000 points for your dollars is a better deal that way, except you lose the use of your week.  Having that 'option' is still a good benefit in some cases where you might not be able to use your week one year and the points are better than wasting it ... or perhaps as in my case I trade 2 weeks EY to replenish MR points I've used on my EOY trips.  In addition, as suggested here, Marriott might make the 'purchase points' option a plan of very short duration - so I'd buy the MR points now if you are in need.  

If the 'buy 99,000 points'  plan stays, I suspect it was put in for a number of reasons, only guesswork on my part: 1. to encourage people to 'top up' and take a great trip sooner than later; 2. to encourage those who bought 'resale' to be more active in using points; 3. to introduce vastly higher purchase incentives to buy direct ... back to the half million days for a $20,000 purchase.  4. a prelude to a huge bump in the number of reward points you might need for future trips -- so use your points now.

Right now I look upon this as a way for my kids to put a pile of points in their own MR accounts and get some nice trips too.  

Personally, I don't think anyone is the loser with Marriott - they've rewarded me nicely as a direct buyer of their timeshares ... as well as a stockowner as when I bought a $20,000 TS from them I also matched that amount in MAR stock.  My last purchase (number 6) was in 2002 so you can easily see how much MAR stock has gone up since then, even though I may have 'lost' money on the TS prices I paid (if you don't take into account the 2 million+ MR points I got as incentives to buy that way).  It's been a good marriage for me.  

Brian


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## Quilter (Jan 7, 2007)

What am I missing?

This new program just doesn't bother me.   My lowest m/f is Manor Club.  It has now gone over $700.   Add the $104 fee to that and I've invested $804 and lost the use of my week.   It will take repeating that senario 3 times to get enough points for a category 6 or 7  travel package.  $2450+

I can keep my week and hopefully get a minimum $1k in rent.  Do that 2 years and I've gotten $2,000 - $1,500 (m/f) for a gain of $500.  By buying 270k points for $2,700 and subtracting the $500 I have the same category 7 trip for $2,200 and still get to use or rent my week for the 3rd year. 

We didn't buy our weeks solely for the points option.  In fact, I don't think we gave the points option much thought except Manor Club and that was when the m/f was in the $550+ range.   

Is the argument "how will Marriott be able to finish sales at the newer properties if points are available for purchase"?   I think there will be those buyers who 1) don't care about trading for points anyway because they just want a piece of new construction real estate or 2) won't know any better.   Even with websites like TUG and flyertalk, I run into so-o-o-o many owners at resorts who just don't know much about what they've purchased.  

However, this program should help resales as more of the savvy buyers will quit debating "developer or resale".   Unless, of course, they're looking at a resort that's opening up preconstruction sales.


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## Hoc (Jan 9, 2007)

I'm actually a little surprised at the rate for purchase.  For years now, I've been saying that Marriott points were worth about a penny a point.  That is why I've always said that purchasing a timeshare from Marriott for $20k-plus (now closer to $30-$40k), merely to get around $2k worth of points, and the right to trade your unit in for around $1,000 worth of points every other year for a $1,000 annual maintenance fee plus a surcharge did not make sense.  Especially when you could buy the same unit resale for about $8-$10k (now closer to $10-15k) without points.

What surprises me is that this is the first time I have seen Marriott sell something without a "greed premium."  This is not Marriott-type behavior.  My guess is that they will be devaluing the points soon, and you can expect the number of points needed to get travel packages and the like to go up by maybe as much as 25-30 percent in the next year or so.

For now, I might actually buy some points and trade them in, because it seems like a fair price, and I like the concept of getting a first class ticket using miles to Europe or Asia (worth around $1,500) plus a week at a Marriott hotel (worth around $1,100), plus enough miles to make me lifetime Platinum with American Airlines, all for $2,500.  Just be aware that if you take advantage of this deal, you need to do the trade in quickly, as the points values for the trade-ins likely will be going up soon, or additional limitations will be imposed on the use of the points (one of each type of award a year, available during low season only, or something of the type).


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## Dave M (Jan 9, 2007)

I agree with your post, Hoc, except for the need to trade for awards quickly. Every single frequent-flyer and frequent-stay program that has made changes to their program since the landmark AA court case has given significant advance notice before implementing the new award structure. 

In Marriott's case, the most significant change was in about 2001-2002 when the old 200k points "world trip" was done away with in favor of the new travel packages. We were able to claim the old world trips for a full three or four months after their demise was announced. Those old awards could be used for up to a year after the new award structure was implemented.

Most of the major airlines have had similar devaluations within the past year. My favorite, UA, gave a full six months advance notice before implementing the devalued award structure in October. 

To do anything other than give such advance notice invites expensive lawsuits that Marriott (or other travel companies) would almost certainly lose - again, based on the AA case.

The single exception to that advance notice would relate to changes in categories for hotels. If you know you want to stay at a particular hotel, it's a good idea to make that reservation and get the award for it. If you do, you'll be able to use your award, even if the hotel is moved up a category before your stay. Otherwise, a change in category, which probably would not be announced in advance, could cost you additional points for that stay.


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