# Summer Bay Resort a Sink Hole [merged]



## suzanne

We will be there mid December in 2 bedroom unit. Need advice on which building to call ahead and request. Looking for quiet upgraded unit with screened balcony away from the pools. Are any of the units non smoking? 

Other help on surrounding area for wildlife photography would be appreciated.

Suzanne


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## toxic

I suspect that you'll want to request to not be in or near building 104, which apparently was swallowed by a sinkhole this evening.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/natio...8b4c18-0317-11e3-bfc5-406b928603b2_story.html

http://www.clickorlando.com/news/of...tilt/-/1637132/21425754/-/nkhoaj/-/index.html


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## MattC

*Summer Bay Resort a Sink Hole*

Hit Yahoo!!

http://news.yahoo.com/sinking-florida-resort-villa-evacuated-061940938.html

Maybe it is true!!

MattC


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## vacationhopeful

*It is true!*

It is one of the TOP news stories on the 7AM Today show. Complete with current helicopter views.

Elevator tower connecting 2 buildings is where it started. And part of the one condo building appears to be flatten cinderblock.


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## Dori

This is too bad. Summer Bay is one of our favourite Florida Resorts. I'm so glad no one was injured.

Dori


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## Banker

that is amazing..I just read about it on the home page of AOL.


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## RumpleMom

*Which 3 story ts collapsed in Orlando?*

I heard on the radio this morning that a 3 story timeshare collapsed into a sinkhole near Orlando.

Anyone have details?


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## WalnutBaron

RumpleMom said:


> I heard on the radio this morning that a 3 story timeshare collapsed into a sinkhole near Orlando.
> 
> Anyone have details?



Yahoo! News reports it is Summer Bay.  http://news.yahoo.com/sinkhole-causes-resort-villa-partially-collapse-074651503.html


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## ondeadlin

The video here is crazy.  I'd imagine even the two buildings that are not sheered are going to be total losses due to foundational instability.

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news...ge-disney-area-resort-20130812,0,376846.story


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## EileenL

*Sinkhole Summer Bay Resort [Threads Merged]*

http://www.clickorlando.com/news/of...tilt/-/1637132/21425754/-/nkhoaj/-/index.html


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## Miss Marty

*Sinkhole at Summer Bay Resort*

*
August 11, 2013 

Sinkhole @

Summer Bay Resort* 

Is located on a secluded, private 64-acre lake, just minutes from the most popular attractions and activities in the Orlando area & about 6 quick miles from Walt Disney World® Resort.

Address: Route 192
25 Town Center Blvd
Clermont, Fl 34714

The property features a clubhouse, hotel units,
1, 2 and 3 bedroom condominium timeshares,  
2 bedroom villas and houses with private pools

Have Questions about your up coming reservation?
Call the resort directly by phone at 352-242-1100

Toll-Free Reservations: 1-800-654-6102
Member Services: 1-800-654-6102


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## kwindham

That is horrible!!!


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## simpsontruckdriver

Better hope no one here has any reservations. The sinkhole should not cause any more damage, unless others decide to open up.

TS


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## Space Coast Laurie

*YIKES!  Building Collapse at Summer Bay (Clermont/Orlando) Due to Sinkhole!*

60 feet wide so far... one building collapsed, another sinking.  Fortunately, I don't believe anyone was hurt.

http://www.cnn.com/2013/08/12/us/florida-resort-sinkhole/index.html?hpt=hp_t2


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## Saintsfanfl

That is crazy! I was planning to PM the OP this morning that I would stop by on my way home from work and scope out the best building if they didn't have any knowledgeable info.

Sorry suzanne


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## klpca

Is this an insurable risk in Florida? If so is it common to carry coverage, or is it like earthquake insurance in California where it is offered as additional coverage but not everyone chooses to carry the coverage?


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## Saintsfanfl

klpca said:


> Is this an insurable risk in Florida? If so is it common to carry coverage, or is it like earthquake insurance in California where it is offered as additional coverage but not everyone chooses to carry the coverage?



My homeowner's insurance policy does not cover sinkholes. It did until a little more than a year ago. At that time State Farm separated sinkhole coverage from other types of catastrophic ground cover collapse. It is now an optional add-on but I currently don't have it. I should probably add it but at the time they just sent a notice and I didn't do anything.


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## simpsontruckdriver

Correct, sinkholes are insurable. Out of the hundreds-of-thousands of homes in Central Florida, maybe 1 or 2 in a year drop into a sinkhole. Florida is the only state that requires insurers cover "earth movement" (which includes sinkholes). Florida law is clear:

Florida Statute 627.706 *requires* insurers to include coverage for “catastrophic ground cover collapse,” and offer additional separate coverage for other sinkhole damage. Under Florida law, “catastrophic ground collapse is defined as 'geological activity' that results in all of the following:

1; The abrupt collapse of ground cover
2. A depression in the ground cover that is clearly visible to the naked eye
3. Structural damage to the building including the foundation
4. The insured structure being condemned and ordered to be vacated by the government agency authorized by law to issue such an order for that structure.

TS


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## Jestjoan

*Sinkhole Summer Bay Resort*

http://news.yahoo.com/sinkhole-causes-resort-villa-partially-collapse-074651503.html


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## simpsontruckdriver

Deleted...


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## Saintsfanfl

simpsontruckdriver said:


> Correct, sinkholes are insurable. Out of the hundreds-of-thousands of homes in Central Florida, maybe 1 or 2 in a year drop into a sinkhole. Florida is the only state that requires insurers cover "earth movement" (which includes sinkholes). Florida law is clear:
> 
> Florida Statute 627.706 *requires* insurers to include coverage for “catastrophic ground cover collapse,” and offer additional separate coverage for other sinkhole damage. Under Florida law, “catastrophic ground collapse is defined as 'geological activity' that results in all of the following:
> 
> 1; The abrupt collapse of ground cover
> 2. A depression in the ground cover that is clearly visible to the naked eye
> 3. Structural damage to the building including the foundation
> 4. The insured structure being condemned and ordered to be vacated by the government agency authorized by law to issue such an order for that structure.
> 
> TS



A sinkhole may or may not qualify as part of "catastrophic ground cover collapse", depending on the circumstances. If it meets the definition below but does not meet all 4 of the criteria above, it may not be covered without the additional coverage or rider.



> Florida law defines a sinkhole as “a land form created by subsidence of soil, sediment, or rock as underlying strata are dissolved by groundwater. A sinkhole may form by collapse into subterranean voids created by dissolution (the dissolving) of limestone or dolostone or by the subsidence as these strata are dissolved.”



In other words, if the damage is not severe enough to vacate, it will probably not be covered. The notice I received referred to sinkhole damage not covered under the mandatory law, so it looks like I am actually covered if it renders my structure unlivable.


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## klpca

simpsontruckdriver said:


> Correct, sinkholes are insurable. Out of the hundreds-of-thousands of homes in Central Florida, maybe 1 or 2 in a year drop into a sinkhole. Florida is the only state that requires insurers cover "earth movement" (which includes sinkholes). Florida law is clear:
> 
> Florida Statute 627.706 *requires* insurers to include coverage for “catastrophic ground cover collapse,” and offer additional separate coverage for other sinkhole damage. Under Florida law, “catastrophic ground collapse is defined as 'geological activity' that results in all of the following:
> 
> 1; The abrupt collapse of ground cover
> 2. A depression in the ground cover that is clearly visible to the naked eye
> 3. Structural damage to the building including the foundation
> 4. The insured structure being condemned and ordered to be vacated by the government agency authorized by law to issue such an order for that structure.
> 
> TS





Saintsfanfl said:


> A sinkhole may or may not qualify as part of "catastrophic ground cover collapse", depending on the circumstances. If it meets the definition below but does not meet all 4 of the criteria above, it may not be covered without the additional coverage or rider.
> 
> 
> 
> In other words, if the damage is not severe enough to vacate, it will probably not be covered. The notice I received referred to sinkhole damage not covered under the mandatory law, so it looks like I am actually covered if it renders my structure unlivable.



Interesting. I was just pondering the implications to the timeshare owners at Summer Bay. It looks like they will have coverage, but I wonder about rebuilding - is there room somewhere else on the property - and what about the lost intervals associated with the loss of the building if it cannot be rebuilt? This will be a mess to sort out. I feel sorry for their board members as well as the other owners.


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## yma01

I have a friend that is leaving for the resort in 4 days. Since many schools around the country are back in session, I assume there hopefully should not be an issue with lack of available rooms.


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## yma01

Assuming the resort is insured for this type of catastrophe, will there be incurred costs by the owners? Either increased maintenance fees or special assessments? Just curious.


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## Saintsfanfl

klpca said:


> Interesting. I was just pondering the implications to the timeshare owners at Summer Bay. It looks like they will have coverage, but I wonder about rebuilding - is there room somewhere else on the property - and what about the lost intervals associated with the loss of the building if it cannot be rebuilt? This will be a mess to sort out. I feel sorry for their board members as well as the other owners.



It is interesting. I imagine that if it cannot be rebuilt then the insurance proceeds would flow to the owners that are forced out. Which begs a question. Even under a floating system, I am assuming that the actual deeded owners of that building will be the ones forced out if it cannot be rebuilt?



yma01 said:


> Assuming the resort is insured for this type of catastrophe, will there be incurred costs by the owners? Either increased maintenance fees or special assessments? Just curious.



Required by law as part of standard insurance, see post above.


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## tug1873

Saintsfanfl said:


> It is interesting. I imagine that if it cannot be rebuilt then the insurance proceeds would flow to the owners that are forced out. Which begs a question. Even under a floating system, I am assuming that the actual deeded owners of that building will be the ones forced out if it cannot be rebuilt?
> 
> 
> 
> Required by law as part of standard insurance, see post above.



I own in building 107 I believe this was building 104? Does anyone knows what building collapsed.

At summer bay Villa's there is multiple HOA's I believe on that site. Since I am a Villa owner and that is the collapse happened  I know that this will effect me. 

I don't know how the legal property divides and who owns what but I believe summer bay has room for another planed phase.

If they paid me out from insurance I would be really happy.


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## Saintsfanfl

I know with Katrina and at least one of the timeshares in New Orleans the owners had to sit tight and eat annual maintenance fees as well as pay a special assessment while the building was unoccupied. Hopefully in this case it is spread across all the owners within that HOA.


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## TIMESHARE-HO

*Summer bay - sliding away.. Not funny! Sinkhole!!*

OMG!  HOW AWFUL! Those poor people have lost all their belongings & had the scare of their lives! You come to Disney to get away from realty! You return home not knowing if that dog is real or not! Universal is as scary as we can handle.. BUT A SINKHOLE AT A HAPPY DISNEY RESORT??  
Yes, I own there.. and that is very scary now.. I ASSUME they have insurance for sinkholes?? I also ASSUME it will not cover everything.. and I ASSUME it will be one helluva ASS'mt FEE or WORSE!!  THIS IS WORSE THAN A HURRICANE! 

SEND ME REPLIES PLEASE!!  jillmazz222@yahoo.com


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## TIMESHARE-HO

***ALERT** SUMMER BAY Disaster! Huge SINKHOLE!*

This may be wrong forum, but TUGGERS NEED TO BE ALERTED! THEY MAY HAVE OUTSTANDING RENTALS AVAIL OR JUST RENTED.. CHECK THE NEWS!

OMG! HOW AWFUL! Those poor people have lost all their belongings & had the scare of their lives! You come to Disney to get away from realty! You return home not knowing if that dog is real or not! Universal is as scary as we can handle.. BUT A SINKHOLE AT A HAPPY DISNEY RESORT?? 
Yes, I own there.. and that is very scary now.. I ASSUME they have insurance for sinkholes?? I also ASSUME it will not cover everything.. and I ASSUME it will be one helluva ASS'mt FEE or WORSE!! THIS IS WORSE THAN A HURRICANE! 

SEND ME REPLIES PLEASE!! jillmazz222@yahoo.com


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## Saintsfanfl

Who pays the deductible for guest related lawsuits? Is it the management company or the HOA?


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## yma01

Saintsfanfl said:


> Who pays the deductible for guest related lawsuits? Is it the management company or the HOA?



It is not management's fault as to what happened, so I don't know how there would be lawsuits? This is basically an act of God. The fact that a salary paid security guard alerted guests and got everyone out unharmed is a testimony to the Resorts' diligence in protecting the guests.
But I may be wrong. This is such a "Sue" happy society.:annoyed:


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## Joe33426

Saintsfanfl said:


> It is interesting. I imagine that if it cannot be rebuilt then the insurance proceeds would flow to the owners that are forced out. Which begs a question. Even under a floating system, I am assuming that the actual deeded owners of that building will be the ones forced out if it cannot be rebuilt?
> 
> 
> 
> Required by law as part of standard insurance, see post above.




Even with insurance, it's going to be a LONG and complicated process and likely will costs the owners money.  Attorneys, lost revenue, defaults, etc. will result in special assessments to the owners.  

There was an article about a resort closing on the west coast of Florida a couple of months ago in the timeshare magazine.  I forget the name.  The members voted to sell and the proceeds disbursed to the owners based on the market value of the weeks owned.  So redweek owners will see more money than others.


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## suzanne

WOW!!!! This is really scary. We are confirmed to a 2 bedroom unit checking in Dec. 14th. I'm not sure how RCI is handling all the exchanges to Summer Bay. I will wait few days before calling them about it. I'm sure they are being bombarded with calls right now. Just really glad no one was hurt.

Suzanne


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## Saintsfanfl

yma01 said:


> It is not management's fault as to what happened, so I don't know how there would be lawsuits? This is basically an act of God. The fact that a salary paid security guard alerted guests and got everyone out unharmed is a testimony to the Resorts' diligence in protecting the guests.
> But I may be wrong. *This is such a "Sue" happy society*.:annoyed:



Exactly, and precisely why there will be a lawsuit. It doesn't matter if they have a legitimate case, lawyers will line up and take the case with no money upfront because they will find liability somewhere among the ruins. They don't even want real liability, they just want the threat so they can settle.


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## Saintsfanfl

Joe33426 said:


> Even with insurance, it's going to be a LONG and complicated process and likely will costs the owners money.  Attorneys, lost revenue, defaults, etc. will result in special assessments to the owners.
> 
> There was an article about a resort closing on the west coast of Florida a couple of months ago in the timeshare magazine.  I forget the name.  The members voted to sell and the proceeds disbursed to the owners based on the market value of the weeks owned.  So redweek owners will see more money than others.



Market value would be difficult and subjective to determine. I am guessing they used the property tax assessor values as a means to determine the allocation percentage of the proceeds.


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## Saintsfanfl

A unit in 105, which is right next to the collapsed building, just hit the bargain forum.


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## DaveNV

Thanks.  I didn't see that thread.  Moderators, please close or delete this one.

Dave


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## timeos2

Saintsfanfl said:


> Who pays the deductible for guest related lawsuits? Is it the management company or the HOA?



Talk about ridiculous lawsuits! While I'm sure there will be attempts if ever there was an "act of God" this type of calamity is one.  They would get nothing out of it but a legal bill.  Trying to blame anyone for not knowing that a building could be swallowed by a sink hole goes beyond belief.


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## timeos2

Saintsfanfl said:


> A unit in 105, which is right next to the collapsed building, just hit the bargain forum.



If Summer Bay is fixed use / units then this could be a problem. If it's float then not so much as other units in the same Association can pick up the slack while the damaged building is replaced.  Far too early to say how this will ultimately turn out for sure.


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## Timeshare Von

In terms of those holding RCI exchanges, I had an Orlando exchange for a friend who was affected by Hurricane Andrew.  The resort was closed due to damages sustained.  RCI was able to place them in another local resort with similar accommodations (2BR 6/6) so my friend was OK with their trip.  Hopefully something similar will be worked out for those with RCI exchanges that are affected.


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## Carol C

Just now made the Weather Channel's news. When I saw "Clermont, FL" I figured it was Summer Bay. Looks bad...and I imagine they're going to have to hire engineers to examine all their property. Hope they have enough reserves to fund this emergency...otherwise it will mean a special assessment or hikes in annual m.f. for owners. Too bad...and it kinda makes me wonder if other big developments are on shaky ground in central FL (I wouldn't be surprised).


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## timeos2

Carol C said:


> Too bad...and it kinda makes me wonder if other big developments are on shaky ground in central FL (I wouldn't be surprised).



OH, if only it could be WASTEGATE - preferably a certain gaudy mansion of a convicted Developer!  We can only hope.


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## Beefnot

So is a sinkhole permanent?


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## tug1873

Carol C said:


> Just now made the Weather Channel's news. When I saw "Clermont, FL" I figured it was Summer Bay. Looks bad...and I imagine they're going to have to hire engineers to examine all their property. Hope they have enough reserves to fund this emergency...otherwise it will mean a special assessment or hikes in annual m.f. for owners. Too bad...and it kinda makes me wonder if other big developments are on shaky ground in central FL (I wouldn't be surprised).



Sink holes are a normal occurrence.  Right now it looks like it only 1 building.  If there is insurance the affect should not be much different then if there was a tornado or fire. Stuff like this happens all the time. 

The only issue I could see if the whole property turns out to be unstable.  There was supposed to be an engineer study done when the units where being built.


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## suzanne

Need some quick advice. I can grab a 2 bedroom units at Polynesian Isles Resort (not Disney) or at Royal Palms for our same check in date in December. Should I call and have RCI switch our exchange to one of those resorts or wait to see how much of Summer Bay is going to be effected. If switching which of the 2 would be best for 2 senior adults? Afraid that if we wait to long everything will be taken.

Suzanne


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## amycurl

Also made the "5 people having a worst Monday than you" list:
http://www.happyplace.com/25630/5-people-having-a-worse-monday-than-you-8-12-13

The vast majority of Florida is natural swampland/wetlands. This is what happens, eventually, when you try to make natural swampland/wetlands into something else. Beyond the increased risk for hurricane damage to your resort, the increasing possibilities of sinkholes would be another reason I don't think I'd ever own a Florida property of any kind.


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## timeos2

suzanne said:


> Need some quick advice. I can grab a 2 bedroom units at Polynesian Isles Resort (not Disney) or at Royal Palms for our same check in date in December. Should I call and have RCI switch our exchange to one of those resorts or wait to see how much of Summer Bay is going to be effected. If switching which of the 2 would be best for 2 senior adults? Afraid that if we wait to long everything will be taken.
> 
> Suzanne



Summer Bay is a huge, mega-resort. Having a single building - or even 3 or 4 - out of service isn't going to impact things unless it is a prime prime Holiday period like Christmas.  They just have too much inventory for 36 units to throw things off.


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## Saintsfanfl

suzanne said:


> Need some quick advice. I can grab a 2 bedroom units at Polynesian Isles Resort (not Disney) or at Royal Palms for our same check in date in December. Should I call and have RCI switch our exchange to one of those resorts or wait to see how much of Summer Bay is going to be effected. If switching which of the 2 would be best for 2 senior adults? Afraid that if we wait to long everything will be taken.
> 
> Suzanne



Marriott's Royal Palms. Hands down no contest to Polynesian Isles imnsho.


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## Saintsfanfl

amycurl said:


> Also made the "5 people having a worst Monday than you" list:
> http://www.happyplace.com/25630/5-people-having-a-worse-monday-than-you-8-12-13
> 
> The vast majority of Florida is natural swampland/wetlands. This is what happens, eventually, when you try to make natural swampland/wetlands into something else. Beyond the increased risk for hurricane damage to your resort, the increasing possibilities of sinkholes would be another reason I don't think I'd ever own a Florida property of any kind.



It is actually not the swamp/wetlands that cause the sinkholes, otherwise you would see this happening in Southern Louisiana. The sinkholes are caused by the dissolving of the thick limestone layer that forms the base of the land. Florida has a massive amount of connected underwater caverns. I believe they have the largest caves in the country, but they are under water.


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## krmlaw

I was just coming here to post this - OMG!


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## simpsontruckdriver

Sinkholes are not really permanent. Engineers can fill it in, and most likely, that ends the sinkhole.

TS


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## PigsDad

timeos2 said:


> Summer Bay is a huge, mega-resort. Having a single building - or even 3 or 4 - out of service isn't going to impact things unless it is a prime prime Holiday period like Christmas.  They just have too much inventory for 36 units to throw things off.


The article I read said this affects 47 of the 900 units at the resort.  If that is accurate, then it only affects 5% of the units.  I don't think there will be too many reservations that have to be cancelled unless they are running >95% occupancy (which is doubtful).

Heck, even if they never rebuild that building I'm sure there are probably more than 5% of the unit-weeks at the resort that are either unsold or in foreclosure.  Maybe this is a way for the HOA to reduce the number of non-paying weeks!

Kurt


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## billymach4

*Management*

Who is the developer / Management of this resort? Does it trade in II?


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## Carol C

suzanne said:


> Need some quick advice. I can grab a 2 bedroom units at Polynesian Isles Resort (not Disney) or at Royal Palms for our same check in date in December. Should I call and have RCI switch our exchange to one of those resorts or wait to see how much of Summer Bay is going to be effected. If switching which of the 2 would be best for 2 senior adults? Afraid that if we wait to long everything will be taken.
> 
> Suzanne



Royal Palms is a Marriott. So is Sabal Palms. Access to great pools at Marriott included w/those timeshare stays.


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## suzanne

We went with the Polynesian Resort. Based on DH's health and our ages it seemed to be a better fit for us. When I called RCI to make the switch, she said they were receiving calls requesting people be moved to other properties. She said that they were notifying people of their options starting with those whose exchanges were coming up in next week or two first and as they learned more about the problem they would decide on what they can or will do for other exchanges. Since I had just made the exchange last Thursday, I was still under my 15 day grace period to cancel or change my exchange without a penalty so she took care of it for me. She did however charge me $10.00 for the call as per their policy now on calling and using a rep instead of doing it myself online. :annoyed:

Suzanne


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## sb2313

My inlaws own a week deeded in building 105, which according to an article here, is condemned too. Thoughts on what will happen?
http://www.menafn.com/b1407b55-aeba...Sinkhole-collapses-Disneyarea-resort?src=main


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## Carol C

It was the lead story on NBC evening news. Also covered on CBS evening news. They say that the US Geologic Survey dept is going to examine the area and also develop a sinkhole map of Florida. Here's a NY Times article with a good photo: http://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/13/us/sinkhole-opens-under-florida-resort.html?_r=0 and this one is good: http://www.firstcoastnews.com/topst...Florida-geologists-to-map-state-for-sinkholes


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## Talent312

PigsDad said:


> Heck, even if they never rebuild that building I'm sure there are probably more than 5% of the unit-weeks at the resort that are either unsold or in foreclosure.  Maybe this is a way for the HOA to reduce the number of non-paying weeks!



It's also a great way to dispose of an unwanted TS... :ignore:


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## Carol C

Saintsfanfl said:


> It is actually not the swamp/wetlands that cause the sinkholes, otherwise you would see this happening in Southern Louisiana. The sinkholes are caused by the dissolving of the thick limestone layer that forms the base of the land. Florida has a massive amount of connected underwater caverns. I believe they have the largest caves in the country, but they are under water.



She didn't say that sinkholes are caused by swamp/wetlands. She's saying that tampering with the natural order of swamps/wetlands/mangroves etc over time can cause damage to human-built structures. I agree, because you see everywhere where forests, mangroves and other natural areas are destroyed, there's no natural buffer of thirsty vegetation to take up water from heavy rains. The shallow-rooted ornamental trees and shrubs around FL timeshare resorts are not enough to suck up excess rain like they've had in FL this spring and summer. If there's alot of concrete all around, rainwater will still find a way to go below ground...often in one concentrated area, resulting perhaps in an expanding sinkhole in the limestone bed below the sand and topsoil. The sinkholes aka caverns are called "cenotes" in Mexico and they are also everywhere. These are natural formations. They aren't a "problem" until man builds atop that geologically sensitive terrain.


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## Saintsfanfl

Carol C said:


> She didn't say that sinkholes are caused by swamp/wetlands. She's saying that tampering with the natural order of swamps/wetlands/mangroves etc over time can cause damage to human-built structures. I agree, because you see everywhere where forests, mangroves and other natural areas are destroyed, there's no natural buffer of thirsty vegetation to take up water from heavy rains. The shallow-rooted ornamental trees and shrubs around FL timeshare resorts are not enough to suck up excess rain like they've had in FL this spring and summer. If there's alot of concrete all around, rainwater will still find a way to go below ground...often in one concentrated area, resulting perhaps in an expanding sinkhole in the limestone bed below the sand and topsoil. The sinkholes aka caverns are called "cenotes" in Mexico and they are also everywhere. These are natural formations. They aren't a "problem" until man builds atop that geologically sensitive terrain.



I do not disagree. Sinkholes are a natural phenomenon that have been occurring for thousands of years. Man has definitely increased the occurrences though. In Florida the ground water pumping followed by the heavy rain accelerates the dissolving of the limestone. The modification of the natural water drainage systems further compound the problem because as you mention, the water drainage may concentrate in one area .


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## bogey21

Saintsfanfl said:


> I know with Katrina and at least one of the timeshares in New Orleans the owners had to sit tight and eat annual maintenance fees as well as pay a special assessment while the building was unoccupied. Hopefully in this case it is spread across all the owners within that HOA.



I used to own at two Resorts that were heavily damaged by hurricanes (Chateau Le Grand in Biloxi, MS and Peregrine West of Galveston, TX).  In both cases usage was interrupted for a year or so while the Resorts were put back together but in neither case was there a Special Assessment.

George


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## amycurl

Thanks, Carol, for making my point better than I did.


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## TUGBrian

well at least not all the timeshare employees are sales weasels!

http://www.wtsp.com/news/article/329975/250/Sinkhole-Update-Humble-hero-helped-families-to-safety


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## Saintsfanfl

Looks like the HOA has already announced intentions to rebuild in another spot.


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## simpsontruckdriver

An Orlando radio station is offering to give the security guard a jug of handmade ice cream. I think 99% of resort employees are great people, but it is the Sales Weasels who make the industry look bad.

TS


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## timeos2

simpsontruckdriver said:


> An Orlando radio station is offering to give the security guard a jug of handmade ice cream. I think 99% of resort employees are great people, but it is the Sales Weasels who make the industry look bad.
> 
> TS



The resort employees and the sales snakes are usually two unrelated groups even if the Developer still controls both.  Very few (Wastegate comes to mind) have spill over from the sales to operations.  Many times even the operations people have no use for the often arrogant sales agents.  Completely different in attitude and reasons for working there.  No surprise that an employee of the resort would act so professionally. The sales weasels would have been more worried about getting their leased BMW's out of harms way.


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## simpsontruckdriver

*UPDATE*
Summer Bay owners/renters meet with the management, but to them, are not getting anywhere.

TS


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## simpsontruckdriver

Summer Bay will not reimburse owners for anything lost into the sinkhole. Doesn't matter, if you lost a $3000 camera, a $2000 laptop or a $500 tablet, and clothes, you get NOTHING from them.

TS


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## PigsDad

simpsontruckdriver said:


> Summer Bay will not reimburse owners for anything lost into the sinkhole. Doesn't matter, if you lost a $3000 camera, a $2000 laptop or a $500 tablet, and clothes, you get NOTHING from them.
> 
> TS


It sounds like this is an insurance issue, and is falling under an "act of god" clause to let them weasle out of paying for anything.  Looks like Summer Bay has the law on their side as well for not being responsible for personal losses.

But I just have to say, who travels with $10K of electronics on vacation?  Seems like they are taking unnecessary risks, as there are plenty of other ways those valuables could have been damaged, stolen, lost, etc. while on vacation.

Kurt


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## Sea Six

What's your car worth?


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## PigsDad

Sea Six said:


> What's your car worth?


I don't keep my car in the condo.


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## Sea Six

Ever see a car in a sinkhole?  They don't just happen under buildings. 

If your car ended up in a sinkhole, would your insurance cover it?


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## PigsDad

Sea Six said:


> Ever see a car in a sinkhole?  They don't just happen under buildings.
> 
> If your car ended up in a sinkhole, would your insurance cover it?



How does bringing a car (a necessity if you are driving to the resort) compare to bringing $10K in electronics on vacation (unnecessary in most cases)? 

And if my insurance didn't cover my car falling into a sinkhole, why would I expect the resort to cover my loss?

People are just too sue-happy, always looking for someone else to blame, when sometimes it is just no one's fault.  For the person that lost $10K of electronics in what can only be described as a natural disaster, I don't think the resort had a responsibility to cover their loss.  The lesson here is if you choose to bring that many unnecessary valuables on vacation, realize the risk you are taking, be it natural disaster, lost luggage, theft, etc.

Kurt


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## SMHarman

PigsDad said:


> But I just have to say, who travels with $10K of electronics on vacation?  Seems like they are taking unnecessary risks, as there are plenty of other ways those valuables could have been damaged, stolen, lost, etc. while on vacation.
> 
> Kurt


Let's see, as someone who likes to take photos, I bring my macbook air to look at them $2k
My Canon EOS 6D $2k
A couple of pieces of L glass for that at $1500 each.
Plus flash, filters and stuff, another $500.
Right there I am at $7500.
Now add the familys collection of iPads and iPhones (remember replacement cost is $600 not the $199 you paid ATT upfront) and you are there.


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## dioxide45

PigsDad said:


> How does bringing a car (a necessity if you are driving to the resort) compare to bringing $10K in electronics on vacation (unnecessary in most cases)?
> 
> And if my insurance didn't cover my car falling into a sinkhole, why would I expect the resort to cover my loss?
> 
> People are just too sue-happy, always looking for someone else to blame, when sometimes it is just no one's fault.  For the person that lost $10K of electronics in what can only be described as a natural disaster, I don't think the resort had a responsibility to cover their loss.  The lesson here is if you choose to bring that many unnecessary valuables on vacation, realize the risk you are taking, be it natural disaster, lost luggage, theft, etc.
> 
> Kurt



Isn't this what insurance is for? Shouldn't the resort be carrying a policy to protect occupants and their belongings? The problem is under many states hospitality laws, the resorts have very little liability for personal belongings and timeshares fall under hotel/hospitality, not residences.

Though if someone is carrying $10,000 in cameras and personal electronics, they should probably have their own policy covering such items and not relying on others to make sure their items are covered.


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## PigsDad

dioxide45 said:


> Isn't this what insurance is for? Shouldn't the resort be carrying a policy to protect occupants and their belongings? The problem is under many states hospitality laws, the resorts have very little liability for personal belongings and timeshares fall under hotel/hospitality, not residences.


Exactly. So why should the resort carry a policy to protect occupants belonging?  Because by law, they don't need to.



> Though if someone is carrying $10,000 in cameras and personal electronics, they should probably have their own policy covering such items and not relying on others to make sure their items are covered.


Yep, if someone wants to take expensive things with them when they travel, by Florida law it is up to the individual, not the timeshare, to ensure they are covered.  

But whining after the fact that Summer Bay should cover them because they brought a large amount of valuables on vacation and were too lazy/stupid not to have insurance -- they have no one to blame but themselves.  (Remember: we are talking about a natural disaster causing the loss; completely out of the control or influence of the resort.)

Kurt


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## dioxide45

Of course, a representative of the resort should never have told people they would make them whole. 



> Speaking to reporters after the collapse, Caldwell said the resort specialized in hospitality and would make its guests "whole."
> 
> "No one will suffer any economic loss," he said at the time. "There are some inconveniences to their vacation, which sickens us, but, believe us, we are doing everything to make this be a special vacation." Caldwell did not respond Wednesday to a request for comment.



While they may have the law on their side, what they did and are doing is not right. Don't make the statement to make yourself look good in the time of crisis only to not be willing to comment later on when the dust has settled.


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## tug1873

dioxide45 said:


> Isn't this what insurance is for? Shouldn't the resort be carrying a policy to protect occupants and their belongings? The problem is under many states hospitality laws, the resorts have very little liability for personal belongings and timeshares fall under hotel/hospitality, not residences.
> 
> Though if someone is carrying $10,000 in cameras and personal electronics, they should probably have their own policy covering such items and not relying on others to make sure their items are covered.



If you have home owners policies it should kick in on most these items.  Problem is a lot those policies have exclusions as well if you talking about designer handbags and such.  In many cases it probably less then what there getting already unless they brought extra insurance that covered these items.



It is probably reasonable to expect 2-3k in personal items on a trip per family. Remember this is based on averages not everyone has Ipads and Gucci Handbags.


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## PigsDad

dioxide45 said:


> Of course, a representative of the resort should never have told people they would make them whole.
> 
> 
> 
> While they may have the law on their side, what they did and are doing is not right. Don't make the statement to make yourself look good in the time of crisis only to not be willing to comment later on when the dust has settled.



Yes, that representative screwed up and made statements that should never have been said.  I suspect he/she may be "employment chalenged" soon.

Kurt


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## TUGBrian

story about a family who was in the building...and the denial of their insurance claim

http://boston.cbslocal.com/2013/08/...esort-after-time-share-swallowed-by-sinkhole/


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## tschwa2

PigsDad said:


> Yes, that representative screwed up and made statements that should never have been said.  I suspect he/she may be "employment chalenged" soon.
> 
> Kurt



I believe it was the President/CEO of Summer Bay Resorts who made the statements. eek


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## simpsontruckdriver

In a court of law, making a public statement could be considered a contract, and reneging on that could be considered a Breach Of Contract. So, if the persons' insurer will not cover it, talking to a lawyer is next.

TS


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## simpsontruckdriver

Summer Bay is now demolishing the damaged buildings. Tenants' stuff will probably be in the mess.

TS


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## tschwa2

From http://www.nationaltimeshareownersassoc.com/media/NTOAPartnersSummerBay2013.pdf



> Press Release: September 24, 2013---St. Petersburg, Florida
> 
> On August 11, 2013, a natural event known as a “sinkhole” occurred at Summer Bay Resort in Clermont, Florida. This affected a portion of the
> resort, individual timeshare owners and timeshare exchangers alike. As large and small media outlets sought to cover the story over the last several weeks, some took it upon themselves to publish inaccurate information that was either taken out of context or unconfirmed by Summer Bay Management. As a result, timeshare owners contacted the NTOA to learn more about what measures were being taken to protect and preserve owner rights.
> 
> The NTOA staff visited the resort and met with senior management to get an accurate accounting of events and to gain an understanding of the
> future plans for the affected area of the property. The NTOA and Summer Bay want owners and the community to be aware of factual issues and
> resolutions that may not have been previously published.
> 
> First, NTOA wishes to recognize the entire staff at Summer Bay for the exceptional actions regarding the safety and security of its guests on
> property during this period. Those impacted in the area of Building 104 and adjoining buildings were quickly evacuated by security when the
> sinkhole began. As a result of quick thinking and fast action, no one was injured and all owners and guests who were displaced were relocated
> either into other timeshare units on property or in some cases, to alternate accommodations off property.
> 
> Significant emergency cash was distributed for personal needs such as clothing and medicine and although there were no injuries, the Red Cross
> was brought on property to assist. Summer Bay also attempted to reconnect the guests with their vacation experience by providing free park and attraction tickets to families. They also took the unprecedented step of opening all food and beverage outlets on property to ALL guests at the
> resort for three (3) days following the incident.
> 
> It is also important to note that during the first 48 hours after the event, company representatives met with each and every family to ensure
> everyone’s individual needs were met. The only items that were not covered out of pocket by the developer were laptops and jewelry. Fortunately most of this was photographed, recovered and returned to the owners. At the time of this update, only three families had minor claims still being addressed by Summer Bay and the developer is making any and all attempts to satisfy these owners as a few items were unrecoverable.
> 
> *Going forward, owners of Building 104 are being invited back to Summer Bay for a complimentary 3 night stay so that they are allowed to inspect the property, have their questions fully answered and determine what is their best course of action moving forward. The NTOA has learned that there are three options specifically for these owners at this time.
> 
> Option #1- Allows the affected owners to transfer their ownership on a like for like basis with no additional payment or increase in annual maintenance fees
> 
> Option #2- Allows the owner to take advantage of an upgrade taking 100% of the equity of the prior ownership and some special discounts that the
> developer will be offering
> 
> Option #3- A cancellation of the property obligations and a small insurance payout that will be applied to any outstanding balance prior to write off
> and cancellation.*
> 
> It’s important to note that the NTOA believes that Summer Bay took actions that go well beyond the legal requirement of a developer. The company and its employees have shown a care and concern for its extended owner family that takes the word “hospitality” at face value. We encourage members, owners and the community to learn more at http://www.summerbayresort.com
> 
> About NTOA
> Started in 1997, The NTOA is the largest independent association serving the timeshare community in the United States. Originally formed as the Maryland Timeshare Owners Association, the NTOA is focused on timeshare owners and the issues related to their vacation ownership. For more information on NTOA, please visit www.nationaltimeshareownersassoc.com
> 
> About SUMMER BAY
> Summer Bay Resort Orlando, is a 350-acre resort with a 64-acre private lake, located 10 minutes from the Walt Disney World Resort® area. Activities on the lake include rental of canoes, waverunners, paddleboats and fishing boats for bass fishing. The resort features one, two and threebedroom luxury villas, vacation homes, four swimming pools, kids water park, three restaurants, fitness center, live entertainment, a full service concierge team and complimentary shuttle to the Walt Disney World Resort® and Universal Studios Orlando® Resort. For more information, go to www.summerbayresort.com.
> 
> Contact:
> Lisa Ann Schreier, Executive Director


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## pacodemountainside

*Florida SinkHole*

Sounds like Developer is taking care of victims.

http://www.insidethegate.com/2013/0...ampaign=Feed:+InsideTheGate+(Inside+the+Gate)


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## Bill4728

Nice to see the earlier reports that many of the guest's belonging would not be replaced is untrue.


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## SMHarman

Bill4728 said:


> Nice to see the earlier reports that many of the guest's belonging would not be replaced is untrue.



Will be interesting to see if they find all those iPhone5s and iPads and top of the Line SLRs in the rubble. 

Sent from my LT26i using Tapatalk 2


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