# Wyndham PIC program



## srebach (Sep 29, 2013)

I have 8 timeshare weeks, mostly in the wintertime in Florida.  When I want to go somewhere else, I use RCI to trade.  I am currently on vacation at the Wyndham Smoky Mt resort in Sevierville, TN.  Got invited to an RCI talk from one of the Wyndham group.

They asked if we would like to put 2 of our timeshares (we have 1 bedroom units - none are at Wyndham resorts) into what they call their PIC program.  (I think that was what it was called)

In exchange we would get 105,000 points for each week and have access to the Wyndham system.  They offered us the opportunity to get a Wyndham credit card thru Barkley's. They said we could offset our mf with points from the card, or from unused points from the 210,000 points we would receive.  We would no longer have to pay RCI dues or pay exchange fees.  I did not quite understand whether I would have to pay any additional money for those points.

I have never dealt with Wyndham or Wyndham points and need some guidance as to whether this is a good deal, or another way to get some of my hard earned savings.

We will be here till Sat, Oct 5.  Need some help from anyone who has gone thru this process.

Thanks !


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## ronparise (Sep 29, 2013)

You have until forever to decide on this program, or at least for as long as Wyndham is selling timeshares. And make no mistake, Wyndham is selling you timeshares, The PIC program is just a little incentive to get you to buy. and from the sound of things a little diversion a they slip the note in front of you

The 210,000 points that you will receive is in exchange for the $40000 check you will write or the $40000 note at 18% interest you will sign. The bonus is that you can bring 2 of your weeks into the system for an additional 105000 points each

Dont do it.


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## MaryBella7 (Sep 29, 2013)

Well, the general rule is that if sales people are talking, close your ears!  Ugh.

I can tell you that 105,000 points will get you very little as far as a week goes in Wyndham. You say that yours are 1 BR, so you might be able to get a 1BR in prime time with those points in some locations. If they want any $ from you - RUN.   Otherwise you are paying more for an even trade - not a good deal.

The credit card is not a great deal - you can do better with other cards.


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## vacationhopeful (Sep 29, 2013)

Wyndham timeshares sales IS famous for totally being able to take a kernel of truth and making it a MOUNTAIN pile of crap.

I think they FORGOT to tell you they would REQUIRE you to buy $15,000-25,000 MORE in their Wyndham timeshare points in addition to the PIC points. They forget to tell you that EACH of your weeks you would still be paying your regular MFs to the HOAs of that resort AND $89 for each week YEARLY to be part of the Wyndham PIC Program AND $189 for each week IF you decide to convert those weeks into Wyndham points ... that is ADDITIONAL fees of $556 per use years of those points.

AND those fees, would ADD another $2.65 per 1,000 (of the 210,000 points) where MANY here consider $5.50 per K of MFs to be a good ratio -- that $2.65 is on top of your current MFs for those 2 weeks.

MF kick back off the credit card --- VERY BAD --- you would have to spend $100,000+ dollars to cover anything of significance. Most of us TUGGERS use other credit cards (mostly the airline credit cards). 

RCI account is included *BUT* YOU PAY a $109 program fee minimum of (56 cents per thousand points and MORE) for that "FREE" RCI account and the computer interface system.

You STILL pay for any external EXCHANGE company fees - just the RCI membership fee is buried in the program fee.

Simply put, THOSE SALES WEASALS are after your HARD earned money! About $20,000 of your dollars.


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## SMB1 (Sep 29, 2013)

srebach said:


> I have 8 timeshare weeks, mostly in the wintertime in Florida.  When I want to go somewhere else, I use RCI to trade.  I am currently on vacation at the Wyndham Smoky Mt resort in Sevierville, TN.  Got invited to an RCI talk from one of the Wyndham group.
> 
> They asked if we would like to put 2 of our timeshares (we have 1 bedroom units - none are at Wyndham resorts) into what they call their PIC program.  (I think that was what it was called)
> 
> ...



I think the PIC program is great.  I had a 2BR week that I never used and only traded with.  Luckily the maintenance fees are cheap.  If someone offered to take it off my hands and pay the closing costs I would have taken it.  Last summer at a Wyndham sales pitch they introduced me to the PIC program.  For a 6800.00 purchase of 105,000 biennial points I get 154,000 points every year.  I pool the points and get enough points for a 2 BR every year in a nice Wyndham of my choosing rather than depositing and hoping something good comes through.  For me it is just a better use of the week that I owned.  

Like I said the original MFs were cheap.  All in all I'm paying under 6.00 per thousand for my MFs now.


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## vacationhopeful (Sep 29, 2013)

Or you could have PAID $2395 to the Wyndham Direct Sales Center and convert it to points also. And the 2nd week is around $495. - when converting BOTH at the same time.


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## srebach (Sep 30, 2013)

Thanks for all of the input.  I think I will pass on Wyndham's offer.


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## simpsontruckdriver (Sep 30, 2013)

Another way to look at it: Wyndham (and most other timeshare) sales people either lie, or (in this case) do not give you *all* the details. They say you can use your Wyndham credit card to offset your MFs, but they don't tell you that you must pay *tens-of-thousands* on the card to get *hundreds* off your MFs. Plus, to get into the PIC program, they say you can deposit your non-Wyndham weeks to get Club Wyndham Plus (CWP) points, but they won't tell you that you *must buy* Wyndham points at that time.

Basically, if you want CWP, buy them resale for less than $1000. That should save you $40000 + interest. For instance, $40k at 10% over 10 years is $528 per month. Your total paid for a timeshare worth $1000 is $63360. That is why anything bought at the resort is not worth it.

TS


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## Bigrob (Sep 30, 2013)

vacationhopeful said:


> Wyndham timeshares sales IS famous for totally being able to take a kernel of truth and making it a MOUNTAIN pile of crap.
> 
> I think they FORGOT to tell you they would REQUIRE you to buy $15,000-25,000 MORE in their Wyndham timeshare points in addition to the PIC points. They forget to tell you that EACH of your weeks you would still be paying your regular MFs to the HOAs of that resort AND $89 for each week YEARLY to be part of the Wyndham PIC Program AND $189 for each week IF you decide to convert those weeks into Wyndham points ... that is ADDITIONAL fees of $556 per use years of those points.
> 
> ...



Linda - what is the additional $189/week fee you are quoting to convert the PIC weeks to points each year? I only see the $89/week transaction fee.


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## SMB1 (Sep 30, 2013)

vacationhopeful said:


> Or you could have PAID $2395 to the Wyndham Direct Sales Center and convert it to points also. And the 2nd week is around $495. - when converting BOTH at the same time.



That is another good option that I didn't know about.  However I would then have 154,000 points per year rater than the 206,000 or 154,000 even years and 259,00 odd years.


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## MichaelColey (Oct 1, 2013)

Don't do it.  1BR units are especially awful for PIC.

If you do want to consider PIC, you should find a 3BR Gold Crown Red week with the lowest possible MFs.  (I know of some with MFs in the $500-600 range, and there are probably others that are even cheaper.)  Two of those will get you over 500,000 points.

But even with that, the biggest problem is that you'll have to buy a developer purchase to get access to PIC.  And that's always a questionable value.


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## ronparise (Oct 1, 2013)

SMB1 said:


> That is another good option that I didn't know about.  However I would then have 154,000 points per year rater than the 206,000 or 154,000 even years and 259,00 odd years.



Linda

This is the fee to convert Wyndham weeks to Wyndham points...The op has non-Wyndham stuff I think

By the way. Last time I asked a salesman told me that the discounted second week option was no longer available...Its $2395 no matter how many weeks you have

Of course I was on the phone and I couldnt see if the salesmans lips were moving or not...they probably were.


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## Don (Oct 2, 2013)

The credit card, even with the higher interest, isn't a bad deal only* IF* you pay it off each month.  Then its no different than any other card, but you have the reward points also.  They come in handy for us when we are traveling and have to spend a night in a hotel.  With the reward points, we stay for free.


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## breezez (Sep 6, 2017)

Don said:


> The credit card, even with the higher interest, isn't a bad deal only* IF* you pay it off each month.  Then its no different than any other card, but you have the reward points also.  They come in handy for us when we are traveling and have to spend a night in a hotel.  With the reward points, we stay for free.



It's a terrible deal.  It pays you 2 points on food, utility transaction and 1 point on all other non Wyndham transactions.   3-5 points for Wyndham transactions.   It takes 15K points for a free night.

Many cards pay much better rewards..  Such as Chase Sapphire Cards...   And offer better flexibility of Rewards.


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## bendadin (Sep 8, 2017)

Don said:


> The credit card, even with the higher interest, isn't a bad deal only* IF* you pay it off each month.  Then its no different than any other card, but you have the reward points also.  They come in handy for us when we are traveling and have to spend a night in a hotel.  With the reward points, we stay for free.



There is an option for an exchange certificate. As the price of exchange increases, that seems to be the best bang for your buck.


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## vice (Sep 8, 2017)

There are a few situations where the Wyndham Rewards credit card has the best bang for the buck I have ever seen. Think Wyndham Grand locations during peak times where the direct rental rate is $500+ per night but you can get it for 15000 rewards points per night which is only a $3,000 spend in Wyndham maintenance fees (5 points per dollar spent). You wouldn't want to redeem a 15000 point night at the many lower quality hotels available that you could rent directly for $50 to $100.


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## dgalati (Sep 8, 2017)

Just rent from a VIP. You can rent for less then the monthly maintenance fees. Example I just rented 72,000 points 3 night stay for $350. To own these points at The Grand Desert monthly maintenance fee about $38 or $456 yearly.


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## dgalati (Sep 8, 2017)

Most VIP are renting at $7-8 per thousand, VIP 50% discount takes the 72000 points required down to 36000. 7 x 36 = $252 plus the $99 guest fee. Why pay at any price to own when renting is cheaper? $


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## ronparise (Sep 9, 2017)

dgalati said:


> Most VIP are renting at $7-8 per thousand, VIP 50% discount takes the 72000 points required down to 36000. 7 x 36 = $252 plus the $99 guest fee. Why pay at any price to own when renting is cheaper? $



They are renting at $7-$8  but the guys I know dont pass the discount through.  thats where the profits are.  A 72000 point reservation ought to rent for $500


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## vice (Sep 11, 2017)

dgalati said:


> Just rent from a VIP. You can rent for less then the monthly maintenance fees. Example I just rented 72,000 points 3 night stay for $350. To own these points at The Grand Desert monthly maintenance fee about $38 or $456 yearly.


I didn't specifically state a location in my example but lets say Wyndham Grand Mills House in Charleston. Only one night is available for the rest of the year to book with Wyndham points and it is 70000 Wynham points for 1 night. A VIP can't even get the peak nights I want and if they did, they would have to charge me $350 from your example for that amount of points. I agree with Ron that the price for that amount of points is usually going to be around $500. Which is why it is a great deal to book that night for 15000 Wyndham Rewards points. The actual going rate at peak times is $500 a night, and the place is packed in my experience.


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## dgalati (Sep 12, 2017)

vice said:


> There are a few situations where the Wyndham Rewards credit card has the best bang for the buck I have ever seen. Think Wyndham Grand locations during peak times where the direct rental rate is $500+ per night but you can get it for 15000 rewards points per night which is only a $3,000 spend in Wyndham maintenance fees (5 points per dollar spent). You wouldn't want to redeem a 15000 point night at the many lower quality hotels available that you could rent directly for $50 to $100.


 
So the rewards card may have some value if you own and pay maintenance fees. All you have to do is pay $3000 in maintenance fees with the rewards card to earn 15,000 rewards points. Use the 15,000 points for one free night valued at $500? Sounds like the room cost is $2500 for one night. Out of pocket cost is much lower renting from a VIP instead of owning and paying maintenance fees to earn free rewards points.


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## Cyrus24 (Sep 12, 2017)

vice said:


> I didn't specifically state a location in my example but lets say Wyndham Grand Mills House in Charleston. Only one night is available for the rest of the year to book with Wyndham points and it is 70000 Wynham points for 1 night. A VIP can't even get the peak nights I want and if they did, they would have to charge me $350 from your example for that amount of points. I agree with Ron that the price for that amount of points is usually going to be around $500. Which is why it is a great deal to book that night for 15000 Wyndham Rewards points. The actual going rate at peak times is $500 a night, and the place is packed in my experience.


This is an outstanding example of how to make the Wyndham Rewards card work.  I play the rewards game with credit cards and using this card for SELECT purchases, like maintenance fees, is very good.  Using your example for comparison purposes.  I can charge $3K in MF's on my Citi MasterCard and earn $60 or I could charge $3K in MF's on the Wyndham Rewards Card and earn 15,000 points which I can then use for a hotel rental.  Of course, I'd maximize my points value by using those points at a more expensive hotel, value $200+.  So, $60 from Citi or $200+ from Wyndham Reward Points on the same $3K purchase.  Seems to be a no Brainer to me.  I would not use the Wyndham card for day to day purchases!!!  Full disclosure, to get the 5pts/$, you have to have the card that carries a fee.  The fee is $75 for which you earn 6000 points.  You can recover that $75 with 2 3000 point 'go fast' awards.  I like the card, but I ONLY use it for Wyndham expenses.  And, I'm grandfathered at 15k points per year for paying the annual fee.


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## isilwath (Sep 13, 2017)

OK, so what are you think I'm understanding here is that you use the rewards credit card to PAY your MFs, not use the Wyndham rewards from the rewards cards to pay the MFs for you. We are here at Wyndham La Belle Maison in New Orleans. We stayed here three times now, last time we were able to get out of the sales weasel presentation, but this time they pushed real hard and we agreed to go to an "owner update" about the new website. It was possibly one of the worst owner updates we've ever been to, and involved high-pressure manager basically calling us stupid for not buying into the program and using it to pay our maintenance fees.  I kept insisting that the program she was describing did not work the way she said it did, and that if we were to take on an additional contract and additional maintenance fees we would have to pay both of those out of our pockets, and that there was no way we would be able to use our Wyndham rewards to pay our maintenance fees the way she said we would be able to. She got very angry and insisted that we were not being smart and she didn't understand why we weren't coming on board. She insisted that she has 700,000 points and does not pay maintenance fees. The original sales weasel said her aunt has 200,000 points and only pays half her maintenance fees. I remember reading about this on this very user board and finding out that they were full of crap years ago. It really bothers me that they push this as such a perk for buying all these points in order to get out of paying your maintenance fees, when it's all a pack of lies. The manager sales weasel also insisted the resale points are treated differently than legitimate contract points, and that we get what's left over. I know that's total crap because we tossed this vacation together in less than 24 hours when our Key West vacation got swallowed up by Irma.


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## Cyrus24 (Sep 13, 2017)

isilwath said:


> OK, so what are you think I'm understanding here is that you use the rewards credit card to PAY your MFs, not use the Wyndham rewards from the rewards cards to pay the MFs for you.


You have it correct.  There is a big difference between paying your MF's with your Rewards card and having your Rewards Card benefits pay your fees.  You can use the reward point to pay a fraction of your fees, but, that is not an efficient use of your reward points.  Those of us that use the card use it because, for some expenses, it is a a better option than using other Credit Cards for those same expenses.  It's a good Reward Program IF you plan on using reward points to stay at Wyndham Hotels.  All rewards programs have pro's/con's.  This card is ONLY good when used for Wyndham related expenses and when the points are used for Hotel stays.  I drive my wife nuts with my management of reward programs, so, if another program is more than you want to manage, don't get the card.  Don't believe the weasels, it's just an OK rewards program and it'w available to the general public (no Wyndham timeshare ownership required).  I've heard this 'card is the end all/be all' crap before, it's OK but definitely not awesome.


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## vice (Sep 13, 2017)

iliswath- Let me be absolutely clear. Wyndham Rewards points DO NOT PAY MY WYNDHAM MAINTENANCE FEES FOR ME. The LIE the salesman is telling you is one of the most common LIES used in a sales meeting. Ask him to speak into your phone to record the statement while stating his full name and Wyndham position so that he can be added personally to the multiple law suites Wyndham faces as a corporation for deceptive sales tactics and taking advantage of elderly people. 

There is a small part of truth in the salesman's lie. You can in fact pay Wyndham maintenance fees with Wyndham Rewards points. The rate is $50 of maintenance fees paid for every 10,000 Wyndham Rewards points you redeem.  I will use the median Wyndham owner as an example. Wally and Molly Wyndham owner has 250,000 annual Wyndham points and their maintenance fees are $1,500 per year. They pay their entire $1,500 in maintenance fees with the Wyndham Rewards credit card. They receive the 5 rewards points per $1 spent on maintenance fees because they pay the $75 annual credit card fee for a Platinum Wyndham Rewards Visa card rather than the standard (Gold) Wyndham Rewards Visa card (No annual credit card fee but only receive 3 rewards points per $1 of maintenance fees). $1,500 paid at 5 points per $1 is only 7,500 Wyndham rewards points. Guess what, the minimum threshold to redeem rewards points for maintenance fees is 10,000 point increments so Wally and Molly have to pay 2 years worth of maintenance fees before he receives enough points to pay just $50 of his annual $1,500 maintenance fee bill. 



isilwath said:


> OK, so what are you think I'm understanding here is that you use the rewards credit card to PAY your MFs, not use the Wyndham rewards from the rewards cards to pay the MFs for you. We are here at Wyndham La Belle Maison in New Orleans. We stayed here three times now, last time we were able to get out of the sales weasel presentation, but this time they pushed real hard and we agreed to go to an "owner update" about the new website. It was possibly one of the worst owner updates we've ever been to, and involved high-pressure manager basically calling us stupid for not buying into the program and using it to pay our maintenance fees.  I kept insisting that the program she was describing did not work the way she said it did, and that if we were to take on an additional contract and additional maintenance fees we would have to pay both of those out of our pockets, and that there was no way we would be able to use our Wyndham rewards to pay our maintenance fees the way she said we would be able to. She got very angry and insisted that we were not being smart and she didn't understand why we weren't coming on board. She insisted that she has 700,000 points and does not pay maintenance fees. The original sales weasel said her aunt has 200,000 points and only pays half her maintenance fees. I remember reading about this on this very user board and finding out that they were full of crap years ago. It really bothers me that they push this as such a perk for buying all these points in order to get out of paying your maintenance fees, when it's all a pack of lies. The manager sales weasel also insisted the resale points are treated differently than legitimate contract points, and that we get what's left over. I know that's total crap because we tossed this vacation together in less than 24 hours when our Key West vacation got swallowed up by Irma.


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