# We just had an 8 hour 53 minute owner's update



## bendadin (Jun 12, 2018)

And there will be no more updates  Ever.


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## Passepartout (Jun 12, 2018)

OMG! What happened to 'Just Say NO!'


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## maddog497 (Jun 12, 2018)

I'm unsure why anyone would stay that long. There has to be more to this.

Sorry for your experience, but they must have made an offer that kept you there.

What were they offering??

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## LisaH (Jun 12, 2018)

Not only it was a waste of your time, but also a waste of theirs! I wonder what Wyndham was thinking. The opportunity lost is just too much to make business sense.


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## vacationhopeful (Jun 12, 2018)

Which resort? 

Next time bring a kitchen timer with you ... set it for the REQUIRED gifting presentation time AND then standup and TERMINATE their hostage holding of YOUR GIFT CARD.


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## MaryBella7 (Jun 12, 2018)

Shew! I can't even tolerate one hour!


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## pedro47 (Jun 12, 2018)

Wow! The OP must have received a $1,000 dollars gift card. Or three (3) free vacation weeks for their times. Sound like someone violated a fair labor standard law.

I hope the OP received two (2) fifteen (15) breaks and a lunch meal paid by that Wyndham timeshare salesperson.

To the OP, Suggestion, please post this on the Wyndham Facebook and their website.

That situation is what give timeshare a bad reputation IMHP.

That sale pitch was truly over the top.


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## bendadin (Jun 12, 2018)

So, what size purchase do you need to make to PIC?


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## tschwa2 (Jun 12, 2018)

The size should be the same as PIC express.  Somewhere between 84,000-105,000 points. The difference has to do with what you are depositing.  Your DVC would never be eligible for PIC plus.  Only weeks that you can deposit into an RCI weeks account can be used for PIC plus.  You have to own the week at the time you make the Wyndham purchase and the PIC contract is made for that specific week at the time of purchase.


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## silentg (Jun 12, 2018)

I can’t imagine! Why did you stay that long?


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## bobbyoc23 (Jun 12, 2018)

Did you show legitimate interest in what they were offering? They must have had a reason to keep you so long...


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## bendadin (Jun 12, 2018)

Well at first they said they would PIC DVC for Express BUT nobody knew that it expired after 5 years. So then they offered 2 PIC in Plus instead. 

So I pay MF to my original TS. Wyndham gets .57/1000 and $89 each to deposit. They were saying something about $2395 each PIC but that gets waived with a developer purchase.

So, short of the TS dropping out of PIC, are there any hidden surprises or fees anywhere? We PICed two 3-born with $787 MF each for 508K. 

Is 98k or 105k the minimum for 2 PIC? There seems to be some  confusion on this point.


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## bendadin (Jun 12, 2018)

pedro47 said:


> Wow! The OP must have received a $1,000 dollars gift card. Or three (3) free vacation weeks for their times. Sound like someone violated a fair labor standard law.
> 
> I hope the OP received two (2) fifteen (15) breaks and a lunch meal paid by that Wyndham timeshare salesperson.
> 
> ...



Breakfast and 20k Wyndham Rewards


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## RX8 (Jun 12, 2018)

bendadin said:


> Breakfast and 20k Wyndham Rewards



Should have held out for lunch and dinner too.


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## Braindead (Jun 12, 2018)

bendadin said:


> Well at first they said they would PIC DVC for Express BUT nobody knew that it expired after 5 years. So then they offered 2 PIC in Plus instead.
> 
> So I pay MF to my original TS. Wyndham gets .57/1000 and $89 each to deposit. They were saying something about $2395 each PIC but that gets waived with a developer purchase.
> 
> ...


When we did ours they said 105k contract per PIC contract. 2 PICs 210k contract. Ours were both 3bdr so it might be less for a 1 or 2bdr


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## Cyrus24 (Jun 12, 2018)

Our 3BR was done with a 105K purchase and that got us to Gold this year.  The 2 BR was done with more than a 105K purchase but that was to get us to the magic number for Silver.  I can't believe I'm admitting to buying from the developer, but, I bought with eyes wide open and I paid cash.  I slept well after both purchases just as I've done after buying resales off EBay.  I don't see ever getting to Platinum unless I can buy one of those discounted Developer resales that apparently were available at some point in the past.


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## TUGBrian (Jun 12, 2018)

Im pretty sure id either be dead myself, or trying to clean up the crime scene if I'd been in a sales presentation that long!


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## BillyBob444 (Jun 12, 2018)

[Inappropriate comment deleted.]


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## am1 (Jun 12, 2018)

bendadin said:


> And there will be no more updates  Ever.



No more because you decided that or because you did something so bad that you are now banned from further updates?  At what point were you tired of the spiel?  

You may have saved 5 couples from going through 60 - 90 minute presentations so thanks for taking one for the team.


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## pedro47 (Jun 13, 2018)

am1 said:


> No more because you decided that or because you did something so bad that you are now banned from further updates?  At what point were you tired of the spiel?
> 
> You may have saved 5 couples from going through 60 - 90 minute presentations so thanks for taking one for the team.



Excellent point that sales person lost five (5) 60-90 minute  sales presentation that day or is this the new norm for Wyndham?

Also, my spouse would never ever speak to me again after this.


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## Avislo (Jun 13, 2018)

Cyrus24 said:


> Our 3BR was done with a 105K purchase and that got us to Gold this year.  The 2 BR was done with more than a 105K purchase but that was to get us to the magic number for Silver.  I can't believe I'm admitting to buying from the developer, but, I bought with eyes wide open and I paid cash.  I slept well after both purchases just as I've done after buying resales off EBay.  I don't see ever getting to Platinum unless I can buy one of those discounted Developer resales that apparently were available at some point in the past.



At least at one Wyndham Destinations sales office, they can sell a developer purchase and a Wyndham pre-owned contract (aka discounted developer resales)  It is referred to as piggy backing.

A interesting way to cost average contracts towards VIP status.


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## taterhed (Jun 13, 2018)

Wow.

Are you sure you weren't hypnotized and forced to sign a half-dozen contracts during the time your memory is 'blank?'
like @TUGBrian said; I'd have to be sedated or there would be a slaughter after about 3 hours. 
It would definitely be 'justifiable homicide.'


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## bendadin (Jun 13, 2018)

Avislo said:


> At least at one Wyndham Destinations sales office, they can sell a developer purchase and a Wyndham pre-owned contract (aka discounted developer resales)  It is referred to as piggy backing.




So how much per thousand might a piggy-backed contract be?


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## Avislo (Jun 13, 2018)

Depends on the contract(s) involved, if someone is interested, ask the Wyndham Destinations sales office.  I am interested in chasing a critter I do not think I can get.  That is a 10,000 point old Fairfield point contract, preferably through Wyndham.  They apparently are not offering the smallest of of the old contracts at this point.  I was told they are going off to Club Wyndham Access.


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## Avislo (Jun 13, 2018)

If you bought from Wyndham recently with a PIC right, then call them back ask them about it.  Since it so close to the purchase, if made, they may do one for you.


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## silentg (Jun 13, 2018)

Still why did it take 8 hours?


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## bendadin (Jun 13, 2018)

silentg said:


> Still why did it take 8 hours?



Well they went down the PIC Express route with lots of misinformation.  We caught it on the contract. So then we needed to change directions to get PIC Plus. So we PICed 508K points.


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## bendadin (Jun 13, 2018)

Avislo said:


> Depends on the contract(s) involved, if someone is interested, ask the Wyndham Destinations sales office.  I am interested in chasing a critter I do not think I can get.  That is a 10,000 point old Fairfield point contract, preferably through Wyndham.  They apparently are not offering the smallest of of the old contracts at this point.  I was told they are going off to Club Wyndham Access.



We got a Blue Thread offer which would get us to Gold. The jury is still out on that decision.


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## rickandcindy23 (Jun 13, 2018)

So you were considering PIC'ing DVC?  You can rent DVC for $13-16 per point fairly easily.


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## Passepartout (Jun 13, 2018)

bendadin said:


> So how much per thousand might a piggy-backed contract be?





bendadin said:


> Well they went down the PIC Express route with lots of misinformation.  We caught it on the contract. So then we needed to change directions to get PIC Plus. So we PICed 508K points.





bendadin said:


> We got a Blue Thread offer which would get us to Gold. The jury is still out on that decision.



This explains why the sales meeting lasted almost 9 hours. You expressed a desire for more points. Those salesweasels are trained to detect the slightest interest and like sharks circling when they sense blood in the water, a feeding frenzy ensues. 

Funny thing, when you just say, NO, the presentation ends and they go on to the next target. You lose the right to gripe when they just provide the information you ask for.

Jim


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## Braindead (Jun 13, 2018)

rickandcindy23 said:


> So you were considering PIC'ing DVC?  You can rent DVC for $13-16 per point fairly easily.


They can still rent or use their DVC contracts like they always did.
Using PICs is the cheapest way to obtain Wyndham VIP levels whether you do or not exchange your PIC week for Wyndham points


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## Avislo (Jun 13, 2018)

Would you share what the Blue Thread offer was or is?


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## tschwa2 (Jun 13, 2018)

DVC can never be used with PIC plus.  Only resorts that can be (but you don't have to) deposited into rci weeks.  Hopefully the 2 resorts they used really are PIC plus eligible because if you find out too late then it could be too late to cancel the purchase contract and you still won't be VIP.  Wydham doesn't make it their job to pre-determine if it is eligible.  If you try to enroll a non rci weeks timeshare it will simply void the PIC contract but not the purchase contract.


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## paxsarah (Jun 13, 2018)

bendadin said:


> We got a Blue Thread offer which would get us to Gold. The jury is still out on that decision.



Honestly, this part especially sounds like sales hogwash.


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## tschwa2 (Jun 13, 2018)

The blue thead offer is probably to get you gold status on the hotel reward side and has nothing to do with Wyndham vacation resorts.  Was it more than a credit card offer?


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## bendadin (Jun 13, 2018)

tschwa2 said:


> DVC can never be used with PIC plus.  Only resorts that can be (but you don't have to) deposited into rci weeks.  Hopefully the 2 resorts they used really are PIC plus eligible because if you find out too late then it could be too late to cancel the purchase contract and you still won't be VIP.  Wydham doesn't make it their job to pre-determine if it is eligible.  If you try to enroll a non rci weeks timeshare it will simply void the PIC contract but not the purchase contract.



Words of wisdom. We are out of there. Thank you for the guidance.


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## BillyBob444 (Jun 13, 2018)

pedro47 said:


> Excellent point that sales person lost five (5) 60-90 minute  sales presentation that day or is this the new norm for Wyndham?
> 
> Also, my spouse would never ever speak to me again after this.


Boy you lucked out there.


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## joestein (Jun 14, 2018)

I don't understand why anybody would PIC DVC weeks.   Wouldn't you buy a cheap time share and PIC that.  The idea is pay less maintenance for your points, not more.  DVC has expensive maintenance.

Joe


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## Braindead (Jun 14, 2018)

joestein said:


> I don't understand why anybody would PIC DVC weeks.   Wouldn't you buy a cheap time share and PIC that.  The idea is pay less maintenance for your points, not more.  DVC has expensive maintenance.


Just because you use DVC or anything else for PIC doesn’t mean you have to actually exchange the week for Wyndham points.
The two weeks I have in PIC Plus have never been deposited in RCI and exchanged for Wyndham points.
I just pay the $144 program fee on each 3bdr and receive my VIP Platinum treatment on my Wyndham purchased and resale points.

A DVC owner can use their ownership just as they did before they used it for a PIC. It’s the owners choice if they want to pay the $89 fee each year to exchange their PIC for Wyndham points.

The best PIC is one that you already use and continue to use as you did in the past but now you get credit towards VIP levels with Wyndham even if you never exchange your PIC for Wyndham points


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## paxsarah (Jun 14, 2018)

joestein said:


> I don't understand why anybody would PIC DVC weeks.   Wouldn't you buy a cheap time share and PIC that.  The idea is pay less maintenance for your points, not more.  DVC has expensive maintenance.
> 
> Joe



The issue in this situation is that as I understand it, DVC can only be used for PIC Express, so the question would be why would you buy retail points from Wyndham for only five years of VIP Silver? And the answer is, they've chosen not to. They've moved on to a PIC Plus offer that will involve them acquiring other properties to use for permanent PIC.


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## Cyrus24 (Jun 14, 2018)

Braindead said:


> The best PIC is one that you already use and continue to use as you did in the past but now you get credit towards VIP levels with Wyndham even if you never exchange your PIC for Wyndham points


Very True!!!  When I originally purchased the RCI Resorts that I eventually PIC'd, they were in points but they were deeded for weeks that I knew I'd use if I ever tired of using them for points.  I converted them to weeks for the PIC program and now I plan on actually PIC'ing in 1 year and using them in the 2nd year.  More Wyndham points in 1 year and a week I want to use at a specific resort the next year.  

As someone who was VERY leery of the PIC program for years, I've come to like how it works.


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## bbodb1 (Jun 14, 2018)

Somewhere around the 3 hour mark, conventional weapons would have entered into the field of consideration...
Around the 6 hour mark, *any* weapon may have been utilized....

Wow.

Or, more eloquently said is this:


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## pedro47 (Jun 14, 2018)

To the OP are you now a happy camper after  8 hours & 53 minutes of this  sales transaction ?


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## bendadin (Jun 14, 2018)

pedro47 said:


> To the OP are you now a happy camper after  8 hours & 53 minutes of this  sales transaction ?



No. Now I have to rescind and start over.


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## Cyrus24 (Jun 14, 2018)

bendadin said:


> No. Now I have to rescind and start over.


Good Move.  Learn as much as you can about the PIC process.  After you've done all of your research, learning from the PIC experiences of others, go to an update and get yourself to GOLD.  I'm there via PIC and I have no regrets.


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## bobbyoc23 (Jun 14, 2018)

Braindead said:


> Just because you use DVC or anything else for PIC doesn’t mean you have to actually exchange the week for Wyndham points.
> The two weeks I have in PIC Plus have never been deposited in RCI and exchanged for Wyndham points.
> I just pay the $144 program fee on each 3bdr and receive my VIP Platinum treatment on my Wyndham purchased and resale points.



Wow, I didn’t know that was an option - I always assumed you had to deposit your PIC week(s). Aside from the required developer purchase and yearly PIC fee, how does Wyndham benefit of you don’t actually deposit your weeks but still retain VIP status on your Wyndham points? Or is the purchase and yearly fees enough of a profit?


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## Cyrus24 (Jun 14, 2018)

bobbyoc23 said:


> Or is the purchase and yearly fees enough of a profit?


That's what they want, I'm convinced.  Giving someone VIP benefits really does not cost Wyndham much.  They want the sale and they want the MF payments.  They also want happy customers and people who get VIP via PIC feel like they got a pretty good deal.  VIP with a fairly small purchase is a heck of deal, IMHO.


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## bendadin (Jun 15, 2018)

bobbyoc23 said:


> Wow, I didn’t know that was an option - I always assumed you had to deposit your PIC week(s). Aside from the required developer purchase and yearly PIC fee, how does Wyndham benefit of you don’t actually deposit your weeks but still retain VIP status on your Wyndham points? Or is the purchase and yearly fees enough of a profit?



Well at first they were trying to PIC DVC into PIC Express (which is pronounce RUN!!)

PIC Express was 5 year temporary VIP. They can't use your DVC points so it gets you there BUT then you need another developer purchase at the end of the five years.


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## Richelle (Jun 16, 2018)

Cyrus24 said:


> Our 3BR was done with a 105K purchase and that got us to Gold this year.  The 2 BR was done with more than a 105K purchase but that was to get us to the magic number for Silver.  I can't believe I'm admitting to buying from the developer, but, I bought with eyes wide open and I paid cash.  I slept well after both purchases just as I've done after buying resales off EBay.  I don't see ever getting to Platinum unless I can buy one of those discounted Developer resales that apparently were available at some point in the past.



The minimum purchased required to add a PIC into PIC Plus is 49,000 points. This was coming from a Wyndham corporate sales person. The discounted price she said was $10k for that package, but she could get a few 64,000 point packages for around the same price. She said you can enroll two PICs with that 49,000 point purchase. That’s not per PIC.


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## Richelle (Jun 16, 2018)

bendadin said:


> So how much per thousand might a piggy-backed contract be?



If you do it through corporate, approximately $204 per 1k points if you buy 49,000 points. If you buy more, the price goes down. I bought some points to add a four bedroom fixed week that I got on eBay for $28. The maintenance fees on that is $849 a year. I get 254k points for that.


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## skimeup (Jun 16, 2018)

What is PIC?


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## bbodb1 (Jun 16, 2018)

skimeup said:


> What is PIC?



There may be better definitions out there, but for me, PIC is the process by which I can deposit my RCI weeks and points into my Wyndham account AND have those points count toward VIP status with Wyndham.  I have to pay a monthly charge to Wyndham for this right (it's about $0.57 per 1K points) but no other fees until (unless) I actually exercise the PIC process (which I do NOT have to do each year, but I can).  As I recall, the charge to actually do the PIC is $89.  

Doing this allows me to move RCI points to Wyndham.


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## bogey21 (Jun 16, 2018)

bendadin said:


> No. Now I have to rescind and start over.



I don't question your decision to rescind.  But after almost 9 hours of haggling and finally coming to an agreement was there one thing )or multiple things) that  led you to rescind?  Just curious!

George


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## bendadin (Jun 16, 2018)

bogey21 said:


> I don't question your decision to rescind.  But after almost 9 hours of haggling and finally coming to an agreement was there one thing )or multiple things) that  led you to rescind?  Just curious!
> 
> George



1.) It was 9 hours.
2.) We only got 1 offer. And it wasn't all that great in retrospect. 21K for 105k with 2 PICs (which is a long story all on its own.)
3.) They were trying to have us use PIC Express for DVC without even understanding what PIC Express was.
4.) A sales manager told us that RCI owned DVC. (Talk about things that make you go hmmm.)


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## tomt73 (Jun 17, 2018)

In 2010, at a Wyndham property in New Orleans, I agreed to "inspect a newly re-furbished unit" and give them my comments. Suddenly I was in presentation hell. I asked one question concerning how to convert weeks to points. NINE wasted hours later (one afternoon and part of the next morning, including having the Wyndham Regional Sales Director join the table), I stood up, said, "I'm done," and walked out. I have refused all such "invitations" since.


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## robhbev1 (Jun 18, 2018)

I just did an update yesterday at the Wyndham Royal Gardens in Waikiki. I was told it would last 45 minutes and I would receive an $100 Amex gift card. They picked us up and took us to the Wyndham Waikiki. The sales guy asked when was the last time I had an owners update. I told him about six months ago at my home resort in Vegas. I told him we get one every time we go there, which is about twice a year. He pulled up our profile, noticed we have been owners since 2004, with 231k points annually. He asked how I purchased my points, told him we purchased 154k on resale market in 2004, didn’t remember exactly from who or where, for about 2k, then another 77k on eBay back in 2013, for about $300, also told him we owned another timeshare at Taihiti Village in Vegas, which I mainly use for trades on RCI and overpaid for that one, which was $340, that I should of received for free. Basically, it was me doing most of the talking for about 20 minutes and we were done. The sales rep didn’t want to waste any more of his time or mine. We used the gift card on a full sized car rental for one day. I always do an owners update, I won’t settle for anything less than a $75 Amex gift card. My wife knows it’s a game for me and only goes if I promise to keep it short, which I always do. The shortest update we ever done was 5 minutes, the longest 30 minutes.


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## bendadin (Jul 12, 2018)

And there it is: 

https://www.facebook.com/TimeshareU...95675922829/10155850246122830/?type=3&theater


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## HitchHiker71 (Jul 13, 2018)

bendadin said:


> So, what size purchase do you need to make to PIC?



Minimum for an existing owner is 49k per PIC to the best of my understanding.


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## bendadin (Jul 13, 2018)

HitchHiker71 said:


> Minimum for an existing owner is 49k per PIC to the best of my understanding.



Yes it is. I opened a ticket with owner's care. They had no idea but eventually came back with that answer.


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## HitchHiker71 (Jul 13, 2018)

bendadin said:


> So how much per thousand might a piggy-backed contract be?



The two resorts that I've heard do this are Wyndham Flagstaff and Wyndham Ocean Ridge.  A member on here was able to purchase a 413k point piggy back contract at $41/1000 points IIRC. He then combined that with a minimum 49k developer contract purchase and it got him to permanent Platinum status.  Not sure if these piggy back contracts are still possible - it's on the to-do list to validate once I get my PIC VIP Gold contract in place later this month.

EDIT: It's also worth mentioning that I did ask corporate about this option and the explanation was that they are discounted heavily because of high MFs.  Not sure how accurate this is but will follow up and find out more detail at some point.


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## raygo123 (Jul 13, 2018)

And only pay MFs. When you use it.





Braindead said:


> Just because you use DVC or anything else for PIC doesn’t mean you have to actually exchange the week for Wyndham points.
> The two weeks I have in PIC Plus have never been deposited in RCI and exchanged for Wyndham points.
> I just pay the $144 program fee on each 3bdr and receive my VIP Platinum treatment on my Wyndham purchased and resale points.
> 
> ...



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