# Questions re: Point at Poipu deeded weeks



## magmue (Jan 8, 2022)

We are considering acquiring a deeded week for Point at Poipu. I have read the FAQs and other information I could glean here in the forums, but still have a couple of questions.

It looks like Diamond's Club members have different point costs depending on whether it is High Season or Peak Season. Do deeded weeks have an assigned season?
Can you "save" an unused week into the following year? Can you "borrow" next year's week?


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## artringwald (Jan 8, 2022)

You have to check the estoppel letter, but most deeded weeks are float/float, meaning you can book any week and any room category, subject to availability. There are some fixed week/fixed unit number deeds, but those are rare. For a short period of time they were selling floating week/fixed category deeds, meaning that if it was ocean view category, you couldn't use it to book ocean front. You also have to check if it's every year, or every odd or even year. Normally, you have to use it the same year, and can't borrow or save between years. However, they do have the DEX exchange program that gives you more flexibility. You can also join the RCI or Interval International exchange programs.

We always book 360 days in advance, which is the maximum, and we've always been able to get oceanfront in February. We've stayed there every year since 2004, and never wanted to borrow, save, or exchange our weeks.


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## magmue (Jan 9, 2022)

Thank you, Art! That is very helpful, although not quite what I was expecting. 

We are currently on Kauai, leaving tomorrow. We've been staying at Kauai Beach Villas in Lihue, where the view is deeded. We drove out to Point at Poipu this morning and walked around to get a feel for the place. It was a positive impression overall. In looking at listings, some are advertised as "oceanfront", but based on your 18 years of experience, it sounds like the deed doesn't guarantee that in most cases. So early booking is the key to best view units.


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## echino (Jan 9, 2022)

I got this view on II exchange during Christmas week, I was told at the front desk it's Oceanfront, not sure if it's true. But nice view.


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## chemteach (Jan 9, 2022)

What are the maintenance fees for the deeded 2 bedroom weeks at Point at Poipu?


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## artringwald (Jan 9, 2022)

chemteach said:


> What are the maintenance fees for the deeded 2 bedroom weeks at Point at Poipu?


$1858.92/year. Much less than for the 15,500 points you'd need to book a week with an oceanfront view.


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## artringwald (Jan 9, 2022)

magmue said:


> So early booking is the key to best view units.


Absolutely. There really aren't any units with bad views except the couple of them facing the lobby area. Last year, because of the pandemic, we had to make a last minute change from February to August. We couldn't get an oceanfront, but the ocean view unit was quite nice.






Here's some pictures we've taken at P@P over the years, some of which show the room views.








						The Point at Poipu - Art & Jo Ringwald
					

Our favorite pictures from several stays at The Point at Poipu




					artringwald.smugmug.com


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## artringwald (Jan 9, 2022)

echino said:


> I got this view on II exchange during Christmas week, I was told at the front desk it's Oceanfront, not sure if it's true. But nice view.
> 
> View attachment 44952


Were you in 9-205? If so, it is oceanfront, but not one of the best views. This is an old map, but the view categories haven't changed.


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## T_R_Oglodyte (Jan 9, 2022)

magmue said:


> We drove out to Point at Poipu this morning and walked around to get a feel for the place. It was a positive impression overall. In looking at listings, some are advertised as "oceanfront", but based on your 18 years of experience, it sounds like the deed doesn't guarantee that in most cases. So early booking is the key to best view units.


The situation at Point at Poipu is complicated, and I'll provide a simple overview, as long as you recognize that there devils that lurk in the details.

When the resort originally started sales, there were not categories.  Everything was floating.  You bought a deed, and that gave  you the right to reserve any available week at the resort.

After a short time with the sales program, the developer decided to create view categories for different units at the resort, with different pricing assigned to each view category and each specific unit at the resort assigned to a view category.  The view categories were ocean front, ocean view, partial ocean view, and garden view.

So that resulted in five types of deeds at the resort. The early sales, which do have any view category assigned.  And then the later sales which are assigned to one of the specific view categories.  So if you purchase a deed, you need to know which of those five categories the deed belongs to.  Because that establishes the reservation right associated with the deed.


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## Dollie (Jan 9, 2022)

We own two deeded weeks at the Point.  Ours are float/float but in our case, the suite floats and the week floats but the view is set at Ocean View.  We are also part of the Club and receive 11,500 points for each week.  Our contract says we can book any suite in the Ocean View for 11,500 points.  Because of the Club we can rollover one years’ worth of points (or any lesser amount) to the next year.  There is something about barrowing points, but I don’t know the details of doing this.  We have never tried to book a Peek Week which are list for more points for 11,500.

As others have stated, you have to pay a lot of attention to what you are buying.  There are many combinations and variations of deeds at the Point.  You may not be able to join the Club anymore (check on this).  As someone else mentioned, DEX is available.  Not quite as flexible but it's something.

We bought our deeds in 2005 and continue to enjoy going to the resort and using our points for other locations as well.


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## T_R_Oglodyte (Jan 9, 2022)

Dollie said:


> Ours are float/float but in our case, the suite floats and the week floats but the view is set at Ocean View.


If the view is set, it is "float", not "float/float".  "Float/float" means the usage floats as to week and floats as to view category.  As indicated in my prior thread, all float/float deeds are from the original sales program, before view categories were established.

"float/float" weeks get 10,000 points when added to the Club (equivalent to partial ocean view).  Our Club agreement says that we can book any unit any week at Poipu with 10,000 points we get at the Club.  We can roll over the points to next year, but if we do that, they become ordinary points.  That means that I cannot book two ocean front units for 10,000 points each within the same year.


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## magmue (Jan 9, 2022)

Interesting and helpful. I suspect a fair number of current deed owners don't really know how their deeds are framed.

And I can't help but wonder how HGVC will make sense of this as they think about whether to rebrand Point at Poipu into their top tier Grand Vacation designation?


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## artringwald (Jan 9, 2022)

Just for some more history of how complicated it is, We bought our first week from Sunterra in 2004. The deed is floating week/oceanfront view. They included Club membership and gave us 15,500 points so we'd have enough to book oceanfront. If we ever sell the deed to non-relative, the Club membership will not go with it. In the following years we bought two resale float/float deeds that we've always used to book oceanfront. If you're buying resale, be sure to ask the seller for an estoppel letter (costs about $40). It will show exactly what the usage is, the loan amount remaining, the annual MF, and any balance remaining on the MF. Diamond will not allow transfer of a deed unless all balances are $0.


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## chemteach (Jan 9, 2022)

I have been wondering whether The Point at Poipu and Ka'anapali Beach Club would be taken out of "The Club" and if they are added to the Hilton point system.  This is really a separate question from the original post - but related to Point at Poipu...  Does anyone have any knowledge about rules for The Club with Diamond?  My sense is that the rules probably state that anything can be revoked for The Club at any time.


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## dayooper (Jan 9, 2022)

chemteach said:


> I have been wondering whether The Point at Poipu and Ka'anapali Beach Club would be taken out of "The Club" and if they are added to the Hilton point system.  This is really a separate question from the original post - but related to Point at Poipu...  Does anyone have any knowledge about rules for The Club with Diamond?  My sense is that the rules probably state that anything can be revoked for The Club at any time.



There has been a bit of discussion on whether these resorts (or any properties) can be removed from the collection or trust. No one knows but the prevailing thought is they can’t.


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## chemteach (Jan 9, 2022)

dayooper said:


> There has been a bit of discussion on whether these resorts (or any properties) can be removed from the collection or trust. No one knows but the prevailing thought is they can’t.


I get that the trusts can't have anything removed because it's a trust, but The Club is just an internal exchange system for Diamond resorts where they convert a resort into a specific number of points based on unit size/week of the year.  Hilton could stop putting unsold weeks into The Club and move the unsold weeks into a different system.  Anyway - there is no way to know what will happen until it happens.    It does look like the joining of Diamond and Hilton will move faster than the joining of Marriott/Vistana.  That has been years, and nothing has yet changed...


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## youppi (Jan 9, 2022)

chemteach said:


> I get that the trusts can't have anything removed because it's a trust, but The Club is just an internal exchange system for Diamond resorts where they convert a resort into a specific number of points based on unit size/week of the year.  Hilton could stop putting unsold weeks into The Club and move the unsold weeks into a different system.  Anyway - there is no way to know what will happen until it happens.    It does look like the joining of Diamond and Hilton will move faster than the joining of Marriott/Vistana.  That has been years, and nothing has yet changed...


Unsold weeks are rent by DRI on its website https://www.diamondresortsandhotels.com/ and they are not available in THE Club. 
Platinum (50,000+ pts) and Centum (100,000+ pts) members have access to some portion of this unsold developer inventory at 14 months for 30 days (see section 6.4 of https://cmsprod.diamondresorts.com/sites/default/files/us-member-benefits-book-combined_24.pdf).


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## T_R_Oglodyte (Jan 9, 2022)

chemteach said:


> The Club is just an internal exchange system for Diamond resorts where they convert a resort into a specific number of points based on unit size/week of the year. Hilton could stop putting unsold weeks into The Club and move the unsold weeks into a different system.


As noted by Youppi, Diamond doesn't put any unsold weeks in the Club, though they could put some inventory in there if they choose to do so.

The way the Club works is that when an owner joins the Club, they surrender to the Club whatever reservation rights are associated with whatever properties they put into the Club.  In exchange, the owner receives the assigned points. So if you put a deed into the Club., the Club now has the reservation rights that are associated with the deed.  If you have points in one the trusts/Collections, those points are now exercised by the Club.  So the inventory available in the Club is simply the aggregate of all of the ownerships that have been assigned. 

When an owner exits the Club, their reservation rights go back to that owner. So the concept of Diamond adding weeks to the Club really doesn't fit.  Further, since Diamond is paying annual fees on the deeds that it owns, they generally prefer to rent their inventory to recoup their costs or perhaps make some of it available for promotional or public relations purposes.  For example, when someone purchases a sampler package, that usage is going to come out of Diamond's owned inventory, not out of the Club.

That's not to say that they don't do some inventory swaps with the Club.  I'm sure that they do; that likely is part of inventory management for the Sampler program.


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## chemteach (Jan 9, 2022)

T_R_Oglodyte said:


> As noted by Youppi, Diamond doesn't put any unsold weeks in the Club, though they could put some inventory in there if they choose to do so.
> 
> The way the Club works is that when an owner joins the Club, they surrender to the Club whatever reservation rights are associated with whatever properties they put into the Club.  In exchange, the owner receives the assigned points. So if you put a deed into the Club., the Club now has the reservation rights that are associated with the different.  If you have points in one the trusts/Collections, those points are now exercised by the Club.  So the inventory available in the Club is simply the aggregate of all of the ownerships that have been assigned.
> 
> ...


Thank you!  This all makes sense.  Not sure why I didn't realize this is how it works...  

So if Hilton opened up HGVC to Kaanapali and Poipu deeded owners, those owners could take their deeded weeks out of The Club and put them into the HGVC points system.  The next few years will be very interesting for both Diamond and HGVC owners.


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## T_R_Oglodyte (Jan 10, 2022)

chemteach said:


> Thank you!  This all makes sense.  Not sure why I didn't realize this is how it works...
> 
> So if Hilton opened up HGVC to Kaanapali and Poipu deeded owners, those owners could take their deeded weeks out of The Club and put them into the HGVC points system.  The next few years will be very interesting for both Diamond and HGVC owners.


We'll have to see how this all works out.  I expect that there will be two separate HGVC and HGV ownership classes, per the graphic below:





What I think would be wild is if Hilton decided to peel out the Hawaii Collection (which is more than Hawaii - it's actually the more "upscale" portions of the DRI portfolio) and brand them as Embassy Embassy Vacation Resorts - positioned between  HGVC and the presumed HVC.


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## magmue (Jan 10, 2022)

Bay Club in Waikoloa was our gateway into time sharing - we bought it on eBay 5 years ago shortly after attending a HGVC pitch that capped off one of those “5 days on Big Island and a rental car” promotions. I had come across the TUG forums while doing research beforehand, so we were well prepared. 
Anyway, Bay Club is an affiliate, managed by HGVC. Some folks just want to go to Bay Club every year, and never enroll. We paid $600 per week to enroll for HGVC points that could be used anywhere within the Hilton system with Bay Club as our home resort. I could see a model like that working for deeded owners at higher-end DRI resorts like Point at Poipu. But who knows what they will decide to do?


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## magmue (Jan 10, 2022)

> There are many combinations and variations of deeds at the Point.  You may not be able to join the Club anymore


My understanding, from reading the FAQs here, is that Club membership does not transfer with resale, and that is fine with us. If we do this, it will be about having regular access to Point at Poipu, not about joining Diamond's Club.


> DEX is available


Is Dex available to deeded resale owners?


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## T_R_Oglodyte (Jan 11, 2022)

magmue said:


> My understanding, from reading the FAQs here, is that Club membership does not transfer with resale, and that is fine with us. If we do this, it will be about having regular access to Point at Poipu, not about joining Diamond's Club.
> 
> Is Dex available to deeded resale owners?


I believe DEX is only available to Club Members.  If you're not in the Club, you can make exchanges through almost any exchange company, including RCI, II, and SFX.


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## geist1223 (Jan 11, 2022)

I believe DEX got started as a way for week owners to be able to exchange and go to other DRI Resorts. Then when it expanded, DRI sort of withdrew from II. They definitely stopped,paying our II Membership Fees.


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## artringwald (Jan 11, 2022)

magmue said:


> My understanding, from reading the FAQs here, is that Club membership does not transfer with resale, and that is fine with us. If we do this, it will be about having regular access to Point at Poipu, not about joining Diamond's Club.
> 
> Is Dex available to deeded resale owners?


I have 2 deeded weeks I bought through resale. I also have a deeded week in the Club that lets me book with points. The site has separate menu options for "Traditional Destination Exchange" which is for deeded weeks, and Destination Xchange which is for Club Points. I have never used DEX to book anything, but I have used the web site to go through the motions as far as clicking the button. Both types of ownership let me get as far as clicking the bookit button.


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## chemteach (Jan 11, 2022)

Deeded weeks not enrolled in The Club trade through what is called "Traditional Destination Exchange" as shown in the previous post.  Weeks and Collections in The Club trade through "Destionation Exchange."  Point at Poipu weeks do show up in the Traditional Destination Exchange.  If you can book far in advance, Traditional Destination Exchange is great.


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## artringwald (Jan 11, 2022)

When you don't want to use you week in any given year, you can deposit it in the Xchange program, and then book it at Point at Poipu later in a future year. It will cost $145 to book it through the Xchange program. If you want to book it in the original year of usage, it won't cost anything extra. It looks like they changed the menu on the web site. To book a deeded week, it used to say "book traditional week", now it just says "book my week".


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## magmue (Jul 26, 2022)

I'm bumping this thread back up because we did buy that deeded week and at long last, the transfer is complete, and I have access to an account to start figuring out how it all works. We paid the MF for 2022, and the seller reserved a week in our name for the end of November.

The deed was represented to us as "Floating/Floating" although the estoppel specified week 43 in Unit 3-405, which on the map is designated Ocean Front. Of course I understand that deeds represent real property, so have to be specific.

But looking at our Ownership Summary on the DRI website, it confirms week 43, and says our unit type is Ocean Front. Does that mean we have reservation rights for ocean front? And does this put us in Tier 6 as far as exchanges go?


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## NiteMaire (Jul 26, 2022)

magmue said:


> But looking at our Ownership Summary on the DRI website, it confirms week 43, and says our unit type is Ocean Front. Does that mean we have reservation rights for ocean front? And does this put us in Tier 6 as far as exchanges go?


I'm fairly certain both answers are yes (but could be wrong).  Presuming it's OF, it'll be tier 6 in DeX.  You can also go through the motions of "depositing" the unit.  When you click on Deposit, it'll tell you the tier value; you can then confirm or cancel.


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## artringwald (Jul 26, 2022)

magmue said:


> I'm bumping this thread back up because we did buy that deeded week and at long last, the transfer is complete, and I have access to an account to start figuring out how it all works. We paid the MF for 2022, and the seller reserved a week in our name for the end of November.
> 
> The deed was represented to us as "Floating/Floating" although the estoppel specified week 43 in Unit 3-405, which on the map is designated Ocean Front. Of course I understand that deeds represent real property, so have to be specific.
> 
> But looking at our Ownership Summary on the DRI website, it confirms week 43, and says our unit type is Ocean Front. Does that mean we have reservation rights for ocean front? And does this put us in Tier 6 as far as exchanges go?


Congrats! Glad to hear that the transfer is complete. Since your usage is float/float, the specified week in the estoppel is just for housekeeping purposes. If you pay the small fee to the county, you can get a copy of your deed and it should mention that week and unit, and should also describe that it is float/float usage. You should be able to book ocean front for any week subject to availability. If ocean front is not available for the week you want, you can also book a different view. If you want ocean front it's best to try booking 360 days in advance. Ocean front is tier 6 for exchanges through the Diamond Xchange program.





You should also log into the web site to confirm that the previous owner's reservation carried over to you.


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## magmue (Jul 26, 2022)

> You should also log into the web site to confirm that the previous owner's reservation carried over to you.


That was the first thing I did after registering! The seller used a full service listing at Redweek, and I have to say the agent was not very attentive at multiple  points along the way. 

That reservation was one of the things that almost slipped through the cracks. The seller booked it before we signed the contract in mid-January. In mid-April when escrow closed, I blithely tried to register at DRI, only to find out that we weren't owners until Diamond said we were owners, and that meant receiving and processing the paperwork which can take "weeks". The one good deed the rep did was to tell me that it was possible that a reservation sitting in the seller's account might disappear if it didn't have our names on it. So back I went to Redweek support. A couple of days later, the agent gets back to me with "Oh yes, we were supposed to do that after contract signed and payment made, weren't we? I'll try.... " Luckily the seller was responsive and added our names when the agent contacted her.

And then, after two more months of waiting to hear, I contact Diamond title transfer again. No record that they ever got the papers! The title company sent them Fedex overnight, tracking showed that a DRI employee signed for them. But Diamond had moved their corporate offices to a different address in Orlando the month prior. And yes, of course they had a system for transferring mail received at the old office to the new office. But somehow our paperwork never arrived at the new office. Not their problem, the papers will have to be sent again. Along with the transfer fee check. Of course. I felt impatient about the extra cost involved in having to use a Hawaii-based title company, but they had to go above and beyond with this one.


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## T_R_Oglodyte (Jul 27, 2022)

magmue said:


> The deed was represented to us as "Floating/Floating" although the estoppel specified week 43 in Unit 3-405, which on the map is designated Ocean Front. Of course I understand that deeds represent real property, so have to be specific.


The unit and deed number mean nothing.  If you dig into the timeshare program documents, they are explicit that the owner for that unit and week does not have any specific rights to use the unit.  

What is important is what use category the deed is assigned to, which will be in the documents that are part of the deed.  

There are five use categories:

Unrestricted - also called float/float.  An owner in this use category can reserve any available unit at the resort, regardless of view category.
Ocean Front - can reserve any available ocean front unit.
Ocean View - can reserve any available ocean view unit
Partial Ocean View - can reserve any available partial ocean view unit
Garden View - can reserve any available garden view unit. 

Each unit at the resort is assigned to one of those view categories.  I believe that there is a resort map showing view categories in the Point at Poipu timeshare review. 

The unrestricted (float/float) deeds were the first ones sold at the resort.  After sales had been underway for awhile, the developer changed so that sales were associated with specific view categories. Sales made to view categories have an underlying deed that is for a unit in that specific view categories.


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## Bill4728 (Jul 27, 2022)

I may have this wrong so do not panic yet.

I read somewhere that when you buy a resale DRI week any pending weeks and points for that year that you haven't used are forfeited.   Please check to may sure that your Nov week is still there.


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## NiteMaire (Jul 27, 2022)

Bill4728 said:


> I read somewhere that when you buy a resale DRI week any pending weeks and points for that year that you haven't used are forfeited. Please check to may sure that your Nov week is still there.


That did not happen to me when I purchased my resale unit in 2020.  We closed in September 2020, and I was able to use the 2020 week.


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## artringwald (Jul 27, 2022)

T_R_Oglodyte said:


> ach unit at the resort is assigned to one of those view categories. I believe that there is a resort map showing view categories in the Point at Poipu timeshare review.


Here's the resort map with the view categories. It's old, but it hasn't changes.






Anyone looking to buy a resale deeded week should be aware that there are a few units sold as fixed week/fixed unit. You still have to call to reserve it, but you're guaranteed to get the same unit and week every year (except if it's being renovated). One year they accidently booked the 2nd week of our two weeks in a fixed week/fixed unit. They kindly asked us to move and offered compensation, so we relocated after our first week. The only hassle was moving all the stuff in the fridge stored in their containers. We had to find matching empty containers from our new unit to move back to the old one. As nice as the staff has always been there, we didn't want them to get in trouble for the mistake they made.


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## cindyc (Jul 28, 2022)

magmue said:


> Interesting and helpful. I suspect a fair number of current deed owners don't really know how their deeds are framed.
> 
> And I can't help but wonder how HGVC will make sense of this as they think about whether to rebrand Point at Poipu into their top tier Grand Vacation designation?


Hi Maggie, there was another post somewhere in TUG last week that the P@P is going to be rebranded.  That just went out to owners.  

Link to Point at Poipu Rebranding on TUG


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## T_R_Oglodyte (Jul 28, 2022)

artringwald said:


> Anyone looking to buy a resale deeded week should be aware that there are a few units sold as fixed week/fixed unit.


Yeah - fixed week sales were part of the initial sales program.  As I understand, most of those sales were ocean front units in Building 6, and were holiday season weeks (usually Christmas and New Years).

Unit 6-404 is a three bedroom unit, and was sold entirely as fixed week, fixed unit.  Unit 6-402 is also a three-bedroom unit, but has always been used a sales office, with Sunterra, then Diamond, and now HGV (presumably) having the only ownership in that unit.  Unit 6-403 is also used a sales office (for existing owner updates).  I don't know if that means that Diamond has held of the deeds for the unit, or if they just manage the reservation system so that Diamond occupies that unit exclusively.


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## artringwald (Jul 29, 2022)

T_R_Oglodyte said:


> Yeah - fixed week sales were part of the initial sales program.


When we checked in for the last two weeks of February, they put us in 8-404, which had a great view. We could watch the turtles in the cove from the lanai. At the end of the first week, they asked us to move to 8-304 because 8-404 was a fixed week for the next week. It had a good view, but we couldn't see the turtles unless they were swimming further out in the ocean. They did give us a $200 dinner certificate which we used at Keoki's Paradise. Between dinners, drinks, and desserts for 4, it was almost free.


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