# VIP Status versus Presidential Reserve



## Dedibble (Feb 16, 2012)

Has anyone noticed that it is very hard to get your 35% or 50% discounts with Wyndham?  Is it because of the Presidential Reserve?  It is my understanding that Wyndham sets aside inventory specifically for Presidential Reserve.  While at an update the other day in Destin it dawned on me that there is a possibility that is why we rarely get discounts.  We were hoping that after having a million points and reaching the Platinum Level we would start realizing these discounts-Wyndham "changed the game" when they added the Presidential Reserve thus making what appears to be "perks" seem to have no value at all!  is this Wyndhams way to keep us buying more?  need some feedback on this one


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## Dedibble (Feb 16, 2012)

*VIP Status Values may be not valuable after all*



Dedibble said:


> Has anyone noticed that it is very hard to get your 35% or 50% discounts with Wyndham?  Is it because of the Presidential Reserve?  It is my understanding that Wyndham sets aside inventory specifically for Presidential Reserve.  While at an update the other day in Destin it dawned on me that there is a possibility that is why we rarely get discounts.  We were hoping that after having a million points and reaching the Platinum Level we would start realizing these discounts-Wyndham "changed the game" when they added the Presidential Reserve thus making what appears to be "perks" seem to have no value at all!  is this Wyndhams way to keep us buying more?  need some feedback on this one



just saying!


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## learnalot (Feb 16, 2012)

Dedibble said:


> Has anyone noticed that it is very hard to get your 35% or 50% discounts with Wyndham?  Is it because of the Presidential Reserve?  It is my understanding that Wyndham sets aside inventory specifically for Presidential Reserve.  While at an update the other day in Destin it dawned on me that there is a possibility that is why we rarely get discounts.  We were hoping that after having a million points and reaching the Platinum Level we would start realizing these discounts-Wyndham "changed the game" when they added the Presidential Reserve thus making what appears to be "perks" seem to have no value at all!  is this Wyndhams way to keep us buying more?  need some feedback on this one



No.  The Presidential Reserve inventory is actually a separate pool altogether.  The reason you are having trouble getting discounts and upgrades is because they can (and do) pull inventory out immediately prior to 60 days for Extra Holidays rentals.  Pretty disgusting.


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## rrlongwell (Feb 16, 2012)

learnalot said:


> No.  The Presidential Reserve inventory is actually a separate pool altogether.  The reason you are having trouble getting discounts and upgrades is because they can (and do) pull inventory out immediately prior to 60 days for Extra Holidays rentals.  Pretty disgusting.



I am a platinum member and have been in a VIP status since mid 2009.  I do not believe I have ever used (not counting stuff through RCI) any non-discounted units.  Except for the Summer months, I have no trouble getting into the resorts that I use (Old Alexendria, National Harbor, Shawnee Village, Atlantic City, and Williamsburg).  I have not had any trouble getting into the stray other resorts that my family and guests or us may want.  I have been lucky on getting things through the Summer months so far also, just need to be flexable.  For Platinum members, the 30 day to 60 day out period is where there is the availability and also where the very frequent upgrades occur on the discounted reservation.

I believe the Presidential Reserve Units are available in the regular inventory after the specified number of days/months pass for the Presential Reserve priority reservations.  See page 317 of the members directory.

For me, I am turning our 1 million plus points into 2 million plus usage plus free upgrades.


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## ronparise (Feb 16, 2012)

learnalot said:


> No.  The Presidential Reserve inventory is actually a separate pool altogether.  The reason you are having trouble getting discounts and upgrades is because they can (and do) pull inventory out immediately prior to 60 days for Extra Holidays rentals.  Pretty disgusting.



They are supposed to wait until the 60 day mark

(from the trust agreement)






I noticed a bunch dissapearing in LasVegas on day 61. so I suspect what learnalot says is true

However if you have the points there is a trick you cn play to make your own inventory

You can get your discounts you just have to learn how to play the game

Make a reservation for a  one bedroom and a three bedroom for exactly the same time period..do this months in advance....at about day 50 cancel and  rebook the smaller unit and get your 50% discount, then cancel the larger unit and immediately hit the upgrade button for the smaller unit...you should then be upgraded back into the unit you just cancelled

The end result is that you can have a 3 bedroom unit for half the number of points that a one bedroom would cost
There is the danger that  in the few seconds it takes to cancel and rebook or cancel and upgrade, someone will beat you to the punch....worst case though, is that you will have to stay in a smaller unit  when you really wanted a larger one, or that you lose smaller unit  and have to pay full freight for the larger unit

I wouldnt do this if you are traveling with a group and really need the larger unit...but usually its just my wife and me....we want the two bedroom but we could rough it in a one


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## ronparise (Feb 16, 2012)

duplicate post..sorry


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## Dedibble (Feb 16, 2012)

ronparise said:


> They are supposed to wait until the 60 day mark
> 
> (from the trust agreement)
> 
> ...



well I have tried that trick only to lose a one bedroom I had booked at the same time as a 2 bedroom. Luckily I had the 2 bdrm still sitting there and didn't want to risk canceling that 2 bdrm in hopes of getting it back right away and get the discount.  Our thing is we like to stay in Palm Aire 4 to 6 weeks.  My only problem is I don't have enough points to "double book" .  I think I was able to get 2 out of 4 weeks discounted.  Do you think the Wyndham access program is a cause of lack of availability?


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## ronparise (Feb 16, 2012)

Dedibble said:


> well I have tried that trick only to lose a one bedroom I had booked at the same time as a 2 bedroom. Luckily I had the 2 bdrm still sitting there and didn't want to risk canceling that 2 bdrm in hopes of getting it back right away and get the discount.  Our thing is we like to stay in Palm Aire 4 to 6 weeks.  My only problem is I don't have enough points to "double book" .  I think I was able to get 2 out of 4 weeks discounted.  Do you think the Wyndham access program is a cause of lack of availability?





I wouldnt  expect a discount for any reservations except those that no one else wants...ie stuff that hasnt been reserved 60 days ahead of check in..Thats why they offer the discount, to get you to occupy a unit that they havent been able to sell at full price...Since Florida in season is a popular place..its not surprising that there is no inventory left to discount 60 days out let alone a month

No I dont think Club Wyndham Access is your problem..Club Wyndham access inventory and Select inventory are all in the same pool of availability at the 10 month to  60 day mark...The problem is the competition of the Wyndham rental department

I think the biggest  problem is that a Wyndham salesman led you to believe that you could always get a discount at any resort at any time with a Platinum ownership...Thats just not true

If however you are willing and able to make your plans at the last minute, and are not too particular where you stay and you are willing to move from room to room or resort to resort every week, you can probably always get a discount...but thats not what any of us want to do..I make most of my reservations either 10 months in advance, with no discount because its something I really want,  or I watch for cancellations just ahead of the 15 day mark, to get a discount... that when I dont care where I go

I have played the double book: cancel and rebook; cancel and upgrade  game and gotten away with it, but I dont like to do it...Its not worth the grief Id have to take from my wife if I blew it and we had to stay home


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## vacationhopeful (Feb 16, 2012)

There is a "capture" routine if the area or resort is oversold. You can try 50 times the cancel and rebook, but your prior unit will NOT return for you to book it at the discount points value if the resort and time period is "capturing".

Remember, Wyndham's biggest sale "hook" is the Discovery package - where do you think all those great weeks come from for those clients - who never heard of APR or 10 month booking at 7AM? They think you just call their 1-800 number and get a beach week in March 3 weeks later.

I would just love to hear their feelings when they are no longer part of the "special people" ...


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## dr_adventure (Feb 16, 2012)

I too get 50% on every reservation now that I'm experienced - I use to not know the process well enough.


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## chapjim (Feb 17, 2012)

vacationhopeful said:


> There is a "capture" routine if the area or resort is oversold. You can try 50 times the cancel and rebook, but your prior unit will NOT return for you to book it at the discount points value if the resort and time period is "capturing".
> QUOTE]
> 
> 
> ...


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## vacationhopeful (Feb 17, 2012)

chapjim said:


> vacationhopeful said:
> 
> 
> > There is a "capture" routine if the area or resort is oversold. You can try 50 times the cancel and rebook, but your prior unit will NOT return for you to book it at the discount points value if the resort and time period is "capturing".
> ...


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## ronparise (Feb 17, 2012)

Linda and Jim

Do you ever cancel and re book for the discount when you have a guest that will be using the  reservation...or do you wait until you have the new, discounted  reservation before you even try to rent it?

Like Jim, I push the cancel button with some trepidation. and I dont push it at all if Ive rented the reservation to someone...

I have several people checking in for Mardi Gras today...The reservations were made 10 months ago and have been rented for 6 months...I didnt even try for a discount. I felt the risk was too great


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## am1 (Feb 17, 2012)

The risk is huge.  

I am always looking for great reservations to pop up inside 60 days.


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## vacationhopeful (Feb 17, 2012)

am1 said:


> The risk is huge.
> 
> I am always looking for great reservations to pop up inside 60 days.



ONLY on the unrented units. NEVER on the rented. The risk NOW is way too high.


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## rrlongwell (Feb 17, 2012)

vacationhopeful said:


> ONLY on the unrented units. NEVER on the rented. The risk NOW is way too high.



Wise move.  When I get my discounted units, it usally entails cancelling at one location and rebooking at another.


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## chapjim (Feb 17, 2012)

ronparise said:


> Linda and Jim
> 
> Do you ever cancel and re book for the discount when you have a guest that will be using the  reservation...or do you wait until you have the new, discounted  reservation before you even try to rent it?



If I can't rebook, I'm out of business.  My pricing depends on being able to rebook at 50%.  If I list a unit at the non-discounted price, my prices would be like most everyone else's prices.

I am extremely cautious of peak seasons and event weeks at Ocean Walk, which is where I got burned.  Otherwise, I rebook rented units, even when I've been paid.  Based on what others are saying now, maybe I need to change my business practices and not list/rent until I've successfully rebooked.  That of course would mean there is only a 45 day window to rent.

Like Ron Parise, I played the BCS Championship (six reservations) and NCAA Final Four (ten reservations) in New Orleans.  Miraculously, all were rebooked with no problem.

I made some Ocean Walk reservations for the 2013 Daytona 500 and for Bike Week 2013 for a knowledgable customer, one who understands the discounts from rebooking.  I told him he bore the risk of losing a reservation -- he may find himself without a place to stay 60 days before the event.  In this case, I don't expect to be paid until I've successfully rebooked.

I think we need to create a list of the resorts and reservation dates (or event) where rebooking has failed.


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## chapjim (Feb 17, 2012)

vacationhopeful said:


> chapjim said:
> 
> 
> > vacationhopeful said:
> ...


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## jjmanthei05 (Feb 17, 2012)

One other thing to look at is what resorts don't rent through extra holidays. For example it isn't possible to rent Glacier canyon through extra holidays so there wouldn't be a reason for them to try and grab the canceled inventory.

Jason


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## kev5982 (Feb 17, 2012)

I lost a three bedroom at Bonnet Creek over Christmas week trying the rebooking trick. It used to always work, now over the past year the upgrade is not always there.

I tell my wife it’s like throwing it into the air and trying to catch it without being able to see it.

My rental prices are all based on the 50% discounted points, so I list my rentals as being booked 60 days out from check in. If I can't get the discounted points, I don't rent it.

Bonnet Creek is probably the easiest resort to rent through because of all the availability. So it usually works out best if I went through this resort only.


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## chapjim (Feb 17, 2012)

kev5982 said:


> <snip>
> My rental prices are all based on the 50% discounted points, so I list my rentals as being booked 60 days out from check in. If I can't get the discounted points, I don't rent it.
> <snip>



So, you book way before check-in and list way before check-in but in your listing you say you won't complete the transaction until inside 60 days?  Or, do you wait until the 60 day point to even list the reservation?

I can see advantages and disadvantages to both.


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## Sandi Bo (Feb 17, 2012)

I lost 2 at Bonnet Creek Christmas week.  Had not rented them yet, but frustrating to tie so many points up for months only to lose them.  

I booked an extra room for our family vacation, just in case, that was Ocean Walk in August, and rebooked 5 rooms no problem.   (Amidst family threats of yes do it but don't screw up our vacation - gotta love it).  Kept the extra room and kids got a little extra space/no one on couches (and loved it, probably spoiled them).

What scares me most is the capture routine Linda spoke of - I've heard of that before and wondered if it were true.  Can't win at that game.

But all in all I have stretched our points (actually my Dad's) unbelievably. I think it's safe to say we never pay full points.

And about the Presidential Reserve.  IMO, adding a level above VIP does devalue the VIP (well, i guess devalues everyones points).  I hate to say this, but I do wonder if you are VIP Platinum, what it would cost to upgrade to Pres Reserve and if it's worth it. Some day I will find out, not in the near near future, but kicking around in my head (thoughts of future expansion).


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## chapjim (Feb 18, 2012)

Sandi Bo said:


> I lost 2 at Bonnet Creek Christmas week.  Had not rented them yet, but frustrating to tie so many points up for months only to lose them.
> 
> I booked an extra room for our family vacation, just in case, that was Ocean Walk in August, and rebooked 5 rooms no problem.   (Amidst family threats of yes do it but don't screw up our vacation - gotta love it).  Kept the extra room and kids got a little extra space/no one on couches (and loved it, probably spoiled them).
> 
> ...



I haven't come to a conclusion yet about the relative value of PresRes status.  I will say that I've made a lot of reservations at places I wouldn't otherwise have been able to make.  There are some resorts where PresRes units are the only thing available for prime weeks or weekends.  

The presidential units seem to be very popular.  They rent easily and typically for more than the points difference although I'd need another year or two to say more certainly.  A downside is that you tie up an incredible number of points for a long time -- 350K-450K per reservation for 3BR Pres units at say, Panama City Beach.

I'm don't agree that PresRes diminishes the value of VIP Platinum. They are quite different in concept.  A VIP Platinum member is no worse off because of the existence of the PresRes program.


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## chapjim (Feb 18, 2012)

vacationhopeful said:


> chapjim said:
> 
> 
> > vacationhopeful said:
> ...


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## chapjim (Feb 18, 2012)

ronparise said:


> Linda and Jim
> 
> Do you ever cancel and re book for the discount when you have a guest that will be using the  reservation...or do you wait until you have the new, discounted  reservation before you even try to rent it?
> 
> ...



Of course Mardi Gras is a totally atypical situation.  People will pay enough for Mardi Gras so you can make money even without the discount, quite different from the summer vacation at Daytona or Myrtle Beach where Dad is trying to find the best deal.  And the best deal on a prime week is going to come from someone who rebooked.


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## rrlongwell (Feb 18, 2012)

chapjim said:


> ... I haven't come to a conclusion yet about the relative value of PresRes status  ... The presidential units seem to be very popular ... I'm don't agree that PresRes diminishes the value of VIP Platinum. They are quite different in concept.



Will see if their is at National Harbor.  Am in a 3 bedroom this weekend, no newspaper for Platanium member, even after asking the Guest Services Manager for it.  Will be in a Presidential Reserve Unit on the next trip.  Maybe the newpaper is reserved for Presidential Reserve Units these days.

The National Harbor book in the rooms indicate that VIP Gold, Platium, and Presidential Reserve get delivered newpapers.  The Resort Position is that does not cover weekend.  Corporate could not even get them to change their postion.

Wyndham charges a huge premium for a developer purchase for VIP benifits but they give and take them away at will.  it does not matter what the Fairshare Trust Policies are or what the Members Directory says.


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## Dedibble (Feb 18, 2012)

Sandi Bo said:


> I lost 2 at Bonnet Creek Christmas week.  Had not rented them yet, but frustrating to tie so many points up for months only to lose them.
> 
> I booked an extra room for our family vacation, just in case, that was Ocean Walk in August, and rebooked 5 rooms no problem.   (Amidst family threats of yes do it but don't screw up our vacation - gotta love it).  Kept the extra room and kids got a little extra space/no one on couches (and loved it, probably spoiled them).
> 
> ...



Well, that is our point.  Wyndham constantly "raises the bar", only effectively devalueing all the current owners points.  In the 90's when we had 300,000 points down in Branson, we dreamed of getting to Gold Status to get the 35% discount.  Over time I got lucky and experienced the VIP discounts, a few more purchases then found my self owning 721,000 points years later with only GOLD VIP Status.  Now the dream is to be Platinum - or is it worth it?  We sat through 3 "Updates" in the last 6 weeks only to find the offers outrageous!  I think the last offer was around 279,000 points for $28,000 and of course we all know the maintenance fees after that are ours to pay till the end of time.  Over the last year we have picked up some more points that put us over a million but the "catch" is we didn't buy from the developer so we do dot yield Platinum Status with those points added to our account.  I have been told to "hold out" and only spend around $6,000 to convert everything and get the Platinum Status.  Two things: is it worth spending that kind of money?  Is it worth buying the Presidential Reserve while getting the Platinum? or wouldn't the resale points still work and as long a we are flexible?  The salespeople keep ntelling us we are going to find ourselves with points we can't use.  gotta go at Panama City and moving from a one bedroom to a 2 bedroom.  looking for replies guys!  love this site!


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## ronparise (Feb 18, 2012)

Dedibble said:


> Well, that is our point.  Wyndham constantly "raises the bar", only effectively devalueing all the current owners points.  In the 90's when we had 300,000 points down in Branson, we dreamed of getting to Gold Status to get the 35% discount.  Over time I got lucky and experienced the VIP discounts, a few more purchases then found my self owning 721,000 points years later with only GOLD VIP Status.  Now the dream is to be Platinum - or is it worth it?  We sat through 3 "Updates" in the last 6 weeks only to find the offers outrageous!  I think the last offer was around 279,000 points for $28,000 and of course we all know the maintenance fees after that are ours to pay till the end of time.  Over the last year we have picked up some more points that put us over a million but the "catch" is we didn't buy from the developer so we do dot yield Platinum Status with those points added to our account.  I have been told to "hold out" and only spend around $6,000 to convert everything and get the Platinum Status.  Two things: is it worth spending that kind of money?  Is it worth buying the Presidential Reserve while getting the Platinum? or wouldn't the resale points still work and as long a we are flexible?  The salespeople keep ntelling us we are going to find ourselves with points we can't use.  gotta go at Panama City and moving from a one bedroom to a 2 bedroom.  looking for replies guys!  love this site!



I dont think that there is any "conversion" of existing points or fixed weeks in the Wyndham system to get to Platinum

I am in about your situation 700000 points but Im just regular VIP (not Gold) and the only way for me to get to Platinum is either buying enough  points from Wyndham to to it (in my case 615000) or to buy a fairly small retail contract and PIC two weeks from another resort....If you really want Platinum...take a look at the PIC program


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## Dedibble (Feb 18, 2012)

ronparise said:


> I dont think that there is any "conversion" of existing points or fixed weeks in the Wyndham system to get to Platinum
> 
> I am in about your situation 700000 points but Im just regular VIP (not Gold) and the only way for me to get to Platinum is either buying enough  points from Wyndham to to it (in my case 615000) or to buy a fairly small retail contract and PIC two weeks from another resort....If you really want Platinum...take a look at the PIC program



It's my understanding to get Platinum you need one million points - like us, you are real close.  I have been told to get a couple of RCI Red Weeks and use the PIC program but I'm kind of scared to  - a guy that has much more than a million points told me its real important to get prime two plus bedroom units in order to make it work. He also expressed great concern that Wyndham may be well on it's way to shut that down. What is a girl to do!  I feel like I am always trying to outsmart them.


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## chapjim (Feb 18, 2012)

rrlongwell said:


> Will see if their is at National Harbor.  Am in a 3 bedroom this weekend, no newspaper for Platanium member, even after asking the Guest Services Manager for it.  Will be in a Presidential Reserve Unit on the next trip.  Maybe the newpaper is reserved for Presidential Reserve Units these days.
> 
> The National Harbor book in the rooms indicate that VIP Gold, Platium, and Presidential Reserve get delivered newpapers.  The Resort Position is that does not cover weekend.  Corporate could not even get them to change their postion.
> 
> Wyndham charges a huge premium for a developer purchase for VIP benifits but they give and take them away at will.  it does not matter what the Fairshare Trust Policies are or what the Members Directory says.



I'm not surprised at anything that happens at National Harbor.  For the most part, guests are an annoyance to the staff.  National Harbor is located in a third world jurisdiction (no offense, Ron, but PG County isn't what it was when you lived there!) and is seen by much of the staff as a social program, designed to provide jobs to the surrounding area.  Since the job is an entitlement, work is not a necessary part of the deal.

We used to be PresRes owners at NatHarbor.  But, we live about twenty minutes from there, which means we probably would have attended owners' meetings.  I'm not sure my blood pressure would have stood it.  We bought another 154K points and traded to Bonnet Creek.


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## ronparise (Feb 18, 2012)

Dedibble said:


> It's my understanding to get Platinum you need one million points - like us, you are real close.  I have been told to get a couple of RCI Red Weeks and use the PIC program but I'm kind of scared to  - a guy that has much more than a million points told me its real important to get prime two plus bedroom units in order to make it work. He also expressed great concern that Wyndham may be well on it's way to shut that down. What is a girl to do!  I feel like I am always trying to outsmart them.



heres the PIC chart






Remember the PIC week has to be from an RCI affiliated resort and not RCI points

A salesman at Wyndham corporate tells me that you can PIC in  a week with a retail purchase of 50000 points..In my case I need 2 of the red week 3 bedroom units  (254000 x 2 - 508000) plus a retail purchase(107000)  plus what I own thats vip eligible (385000) to bring me to Platinum. That retail purchase will cost me $12000 to $15000 depending on the "discount" I can negotiate

Your calculation will be different 


The bigger question is: why do this at all?...for me the the additional 10 guest certificates and the 50% discount on last minute reservations will I think make it worth while, especially if I add another 3 or 4 million points (bought resale since they will enjoy the discount too and since Ill be going from a 25% discount to 50% (and remember too, I rent nearly everything I own)

I cant answer the question for you...in fact you might be better off just buying the additional points resale and forgetting about the Platinum discounts...In fact I will probably be better off forgetting about Platinum. and just shopping for some good fixed week rentals


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## Dedibble (Feb 19, 2012)

ronparise said:


> heres the PIC chart
> 
> 
> 
> ...



And basically we are better off buying resale because of the actual cash layout - points are points are points in Wyndham - right?


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## Dedibble (Feb 19, 2012)

Dedibble said:


> And basically we are better off buying resale because of the actual cash layout - points are points are points in Wyndham - right?



Also. I guess I have misunderstood the PIC Program. I thought PIC was a scenario of which you take an RCI week that you own and give it to Wyndham for that calendar year, in turn they give you points to use for that year.  What I am hearing from you is you have to another purchase with them.


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## am1 (Feb 19, 2012)

Dedibble said:


> Also. I guess I have misunderstood the PIC Program. I thought PIC was a scenario of which you take an RCI week that you own and give it to Wyndham for that calendar year, in turn they give you points to use for that year.  What I am hearing from you is you have to another purchase with them.



Yes a retail purchase is required.  It use to be more than 50k per week.  I would be surprised if they lowered it.


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## jjmanthei05 (Feb 20, 2012)

Last I heard it was 77,000 for 1 week and 110,000 for 2 weeks. 


Jason


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## ronparise (Feb 20, 2012)

chapjim said:


> I'm not surprised at anything that happens at National Harbor.  For the most part, guests are an annoyance to the staff.  National Harbor is located in a third world jurisdiction (no offense, Ron, but PG County isn't what it was when you lived there!) and is seen by much of the staff as a social program, designed to provide jobs to the surrounding area.  Since the job is an entitlement, work is not a necessary part of the deal.
> 
> We used to be PresRes owners at NatHarbor.  But, we live about twenty minutes from there, which means we probably would have attended owners' meetings.  I'm not sure my blood pressure would have stood it.  We bought another 154K points and traded to Bonnet Creek.



PG county was the wrong side of the tracks when I lived there too,,,1950-1968..The area close to DC..whats now inside the beltway filled up with the "white flight" folks and folks like my parents, who all of a sudden found that their new family had out grown an apartment  in town...PG county is where you went if you couldnt afford Bethesda/Chevy Chase...Most of our neighbors were, ex GI's that came to Washington after the War..ie immigrants from  from other parts of the Country...Now PG seems to be full of the children and grandchildren of the Great Migration and immigrants from all over the world...Nothing has changed...its still the place to go when you cant afford anything better

I had a completely different experience at National Harbor...I found the staff helpful and accommodating...I even had a nice morning with the sales staff...Once it was clear that I wasnt buying we had a nice chat about National Harbor's past and future

As a PG native Ive got to say, that National Harbor is a whole lot nicer to visit than the  Smoot's Sand and Gravel pit, that it used to be...and I hardly noticed the Blue Plains Sewage treatment plant just up river (300 million gallons a day)


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## ronparise (Feb 20, 2012)

Dedibble said:


> And basically we are better off buying resale because of the actual cash layout - points are points are points in Wyndham - right?



For most people and most situations, yes..but as the cost of resale points at the most desirable properties (low mf) goes up. I can make an argument for using the PIC program and making a retail purchase to do it...If your goal is to own over 3 million points


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## ronparise (Feb 20, 2012)

am1 said:


> Yes a retail purchase is required.  It use to be more than 50k per week.  I would be surprised if they lowered it.



The corporate sales person Im talking to says it has been lowered to 50000 points per week...but then again...her lips were moving


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## Dedibble (Feb 20, 2012)

ronparise said:


> The corporate sales person Im talking to says it has been lowered to 50000 points per week...but then again...her lips were moving



LOL!   I think they were telling us we would need to buy 107,000 or 126,000 points but I can't remember.  I read the The Book or should I say:  I read a couple of pages of the book - the light bulb went on concerning PIC!


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