# HGVC purchase for vacation and investment purposes



## MisterX (Aug 4, 2012)

Hi,

My wife and I are considering buying into HGVC to be used for both vacation as well as investment purposes. We have 2 kids (5 and 8) and are at the point where we'd like to start getting 1 br units instead of a room with 2 dbls.

We just recently stayed at HHV and loved it but we don't plan on going back to Hawaii every year, or every other year, but I can see that the HHV is busy and in high demand. Again, Orlando would be nice but I don't plan on going there all the time. Too many other places in the world to visit! We'd like to use HGVC as a way to visit some of the other HGVC resorts as well as trading into RCI or maybe DVC. Our plans are currently to take a 'big' vacation once every 2 years.

We were thinking of using the 'off' year to rent out the TS, and our initial idea was to purchase HGVC with the HHV as a home resort, probably 5000 or 7000 pts in Platinum season, that way we would have a better chance of booking a 1br/2br/studio during the premium weeks such as Christmas or spring break. Even though the MF's are higher, the fact that rentals would go for higher at HHV than at ORL/LV for the same week (I think), this would more than cover the cost of MF and make it a better investment.

Buying TS at ORL/LV would be cheaper for upfront costs as well as MFs but I'm not sure about availabilities at HHV at 9 months. The 'idea' of renting out HHV is stuck in my head as it seems to be more profitable.

I was hoping to get some advice from other HGVC owners telling me if this is a good idea or I'm just completely bonkers. I've read so often that buying a TS should never be considered a good investment, but the numbers make sense on paper to me.

Thanks!
Tony


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## ricoba (Aug 4, 2012)

In my view, never consider a timeshare an "investment", but hey, it's your money and you can spend it any way you want.


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## tahoeJoe (Aug 4, 2012)

*Every Other Year (EOY)*

Renting out your timeshare can be economically risky. There have been many threads on TUG regarding this topic. Personally, I wouldn't pursue this option. 

If you can't, or don't want to, use HGVC every year, might I suggest you consider an EOY ownership. They were designed for people in your exact situtation. I have several and I prefer EOY over EY ownership.


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## UWSurfer (Aug 4, 2012)

I'd suggest you forget timeshare as a financial investment as they notoriously don't work out as one, other than investment in committing to taking a vacation.

I will note I do use one of my HGVC weeks as convention housing for which my employer reimburses my MF's as I use it for a full week. 

That said, if you are looking at a 1 bdrm now, you'll likely want a two bedroom when the kids become teenagers shortly.  With HGVC you simply need to have enough points to book what you want, regardless of whatever you already own.  The points required will vary from resort and season, although there is a grid that helps identify what those times are.   IF you only plan to use it every other year and you purchase a 1 bdrm, you can accumulate your points for the two year period to book something which costs more points.  

With HGVC you can always borrow from the year ahead and some here (myself included) will tell you it's better to run a deficit in points by borrowing from the year ahead than to "rescue" this years points into next year as there is a fee to do that.

HGVC is very flexible and favorable to owners...but flexibility can also equal confusion as you sort out the system.  Don't worry about that but renting out your HGVC week, while do-able isn't all that practical in my experience.


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## gnorth16 (Aug 4, 2012)

HHV is relatively easy to rent out and is profitable.  But from an investment point of view, there are better ways to invest.  Timeshares or otherwise.  All IMO of course.


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## ronparise (Aug 4, 2012)

I dont own HGVC so I cant comment on how it might work for you, But I can speak a little about investing, investing in real estate and investing in timeshares.

Conventional wisdom is that timeshares shouldnt be considered an investment. I disagree.

There are generally three possible investment goals when investing  in realestate. 

1) invest for future appreciation, for example a growth stock, or a piece of land in the path of growth . These investments dont pay an income or a return on  investment, but we do expect them to go up in value

2) invest for income for example a municipal bond or bank CD  These investments have value because of the income they generate, 

3) invest for some income now and some appreciation later., perhaps a dividend paying stock or an apartment building. With these you get an income now, and if the dividend or rent increases, the value of the asset ought to increase too

Some investments are passive investments, like the bank cd, or muni bond or a mutual fund, Some investments require your active participation, like an apartment building 

So can timeshares be an investment? I think so. Perhaps not an investment for growth, but I think that there are timeshares that will generate an income. Its not a passive income, at least the way I do it, but my timeshares do provide a little income. As long as I can consistently rent what I own for something more than my annual expenses, Ill call what what I own an active investment. 

In the interest of full disclosure, I used to own rental properties, and I used to be a stock broker, Im currently a licensed real estate agent, and so far this year Ive rented over 60 tlmeshare reservations, and made money doing it


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## barond (Aug 5, 2012)

Officially HGVC does not condone renting anything but your home resort period that you have purchased.  If you purchase a platinum HHV 1 bd then they would frown on you renting anything but a platinum HHV 1 bd (not gold, not 2 bed, not another resort).

Baron


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## Talent312 (Aug 5, 2012)

With HGVC, you'd typically reserve a "home week" (same season, same size) and rent that out. That's what the rules allow, although some folks do rent "club" reservations and get away with it. But, frankly, expecting to do much more than cover your annual MF's is a crap shoot. 

The real value of TS's, IMHO, are in personal use -- in having a home away from home.
Buy where MF's are low-er, and use it for "club" and RCI bookings wherever you want to go.


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## alwysonvac (Aug 5, 2012)

*Buy what you need for your vacations. Forget about renting*



MisterX said:


> Hi,
> 
> My wife and I are considering buying into HGVC to be used for both vacation as well as investment purposes. We have 2 kids (5 and 8) and are at the point where we'd like to start getting 1 br units instead of a room with 2 dbls.
> 
> ...



IMHO....just buy what you need for your vacations.

Being a HHV owner only gets you a 3 month booking advantage (12 months to 9 months before check-in) and you have to book exactly what you own (unit size & unit type, for the full week on the designated check-in date at the HGVC resort).  At the 9 month mark, all HGVC owners can book at any resort, in any unit size, unit type, any check-in date, for a minimum of 3 nights.

There is more demand than supply at HHV. For example, right now there is nothing left for the remainder of 2012.

Weeks 51 & 52 were sold as fixed weeks (so you may not see these weeks until these owners decide to give them up as we get closer to end of the year when all owners have access to HHV inventory)

Renters are going to want a specific week and most don't start looking until closer to their travel date. For HHV, you really won't have the flexibility of offering a date that they can choose from. You'll have to reserve a week and hope to find a renter that is willing to accept the dates your offering. You'll be competing against lots of other HHV renters.

And renting can be a pain & nightmare sometimes.... you'll have folks who try to low ball, who like to kick the tires but really have no interest, who have unrealistic expectations, etc.


Whatever you decide, don't put all of your future vacation dollars into timesharing. This will give you the flexibility in the future to choose the best way to visit your desired destinations. There might not be a timeshare at the location that you want to visit or if there is a timeshare it may be very hard to get an exchange. You may also want to visit a destination in an entirely different way via a cruise, hotel/resort stay, special discounted travel package, tour company, beach house rental, etc....

Take your time and research on TUG to find out which timeshare is best for your needs. Don't limit your search to HGVC.

Good Luck and Welcome to TUG


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## MisterX (Aug 5, 2012)

Wow, thanks so much for all the replies and putting some realistic perspectives for us! Definitely gives us more to think about. I just came back from HHV last month and sat through their timeshare presentation, and even though I had already decided not to get from them directly, it got my mind thinking of different possibilities to use it after buying it resale.

I do like the EOY idea since that meshes with our vacation plans. Renting out would be a last resort then, since banking/borrowing pts makes way more sense at that point.

I guess I'll read some more on the TUGS boards to see now where and what to buy, rather than HHV. We think we'd use Orlando a lot more than LV, but not sure if the home season for ORL is a huge advantage to compensate for the slightly higher MFs there vs LV.


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## Sandy VDH (Aug 5, 2012)

If you do want holidays and Christmas in HHV than that is what you need to buy in the size unit you will need.  Those holidays weeks go fast.  Christmas especially.  Home season means you only book what size unit you own.

Now if you have flexibility than buy elsewhere and be opportunistic in getting into HHV.


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## Aquaman55 (Aug 5, 2012)

ronparise said:


> I dont own HGVC so I cant comment on how it might work for you, But I can speak a little about investing, investing in real estate and investing in timeshares.
> 
> Conventional wisdom is that timeshares shouldnt be considered an investment. I disagree...



I really like Ron's explanation about TS ownership as an "investment." In many states, it is illegal for sales reps to call TS ownership an investment...and it certainly is not in the traditional sense.  However, it is a lifestyle investment, and if done properly...especially through careful resale...the benefits often outweigh purchasing a vacation home or condo. 

My brother-in-law, a financial advisor, has often criticized my decision to buy HGVC TS.  I think a lot of us are put on the defensive when we talk about it. It's almost like we are doing something illegal or creepy. I am waiting for Chris Hanson on Dateline/NBC  to show up at a sales presentation and announce he is "doing a story" for a new show called *"To Catch a Timeshare Buyer." * 

It's refreshing to hear from those who have good experiences.


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## pianodinosaur (Aug 5, 2012)

We love the good times we have experienced through our HGVC membership.  Timesharing has forced me to take real vacations that I would not have done otherwise.  However, I would not consider a timeshare to be a good investment in financial terms, unless you got a real bargain in the resale market.  A timeshare should be viewed as a luxury item for your personal enjoyment.


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## topdog (Aug 5, 2012)

All vacation expenses, including timeshare purchases, are best view as consumption, not investment.  Buying a timeshare is prepaying part of your future vacation expense.  That said, a righteous good deal on a timeshare is still a good deal.


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## fillde (Aug 5, 2012)

To the OP, also consider the fact that Hilton is the only major timeshare company that allows resale buyers to convert unused points to a credit card which can be used for Hotel stays. Converting timehare points to Hilton Honors Points while not the best use of timeshare points  is a great option. If you purchase HGVC consider opening a no fee Amex Hilton Honors crdit card account.


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## KathyA (Aug 6, 2012)

My husband and I own 19,000 points at Hilton Club New York plus eight weeks of timeshare in St. Martin.  We love our timeshares.  My advice echoes others here:  buy where you like and will vacation often and do not consider it an investment.  If you follow that advice you will probably be a happy and satisfied timeshare owner.


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## linsj (Aug 6, 2012)

Although not a financial investment, owning HGVC is an investment--in my well-being. I'm self-employed with an intense, crazy schedule. Paying the MFs makes me take vacations since I won't waste the money by not using my points, and owning the points makes vacations affordable for me.


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## Tamaradarann (Aug 6, 2012)

*This is Great Advice*



tahoeJoe said:


> Renting out your timeshare can be economically risky. There have been many threads on TUG regarding this topic. Personally, I wouldn't pursue this option.
> 
> If you can't, or don't want to, use HGVC every year, might I suggest you consider an EOY ownership. They were designed for people in your exact situtation. I have several and I prefer EOY over EY ownership.



I agree with most of the advice that you got here.  This particular comment seems to fit your situation the best.  Don't buy to use every other year and rent every other year.  Instead buy an EOY timeshare resale which will be less costly and you will need to pay the mainteance fee every other year. 

I would buy enough points for the number of bedrooms that you will need for you and your children (probably 2 Br).  As mentioned the holiday weeks are difficult to get 9 months out at the HHV and I believe they are event weeks so even platinum ownership won't get you there.  You need to keep that in mind when you are buying a highly sought after resort like the HHV.  Platinum at most other resorts will get you Christmas week when you book 12 months out.


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## MisterX (Aug 9, 2012)

Tamaradarann said:


> I would buy enough points for the number of bedrooms that you will need for you and your children (probably 2 Br).  As mentioned the holiday weeks are difficult to get 9 months out at the HHV and I believe they are event weeks so even platinum ownership won't get you there.  You need to keep that in mind when you are buying a highly sought after resort like the HHV.  Platinum at most other resorts will get you Christmas week when you book 12 months out.



After scouring through threads, it seems like 7000 Platinum points would be a good buy in terms of room type as well as best value for maintenance fees. Since we don't think Hawaii EOY is in our cards, and neither if LV or ORL for that matter, lower MFs have moved up in importance, which puts LV slightly ahead of ORL.

If I choose LV as a home resort, how hard is it get spring break (Mar-Aprl) or Christmas in ORL at 9 months out? The thought of Disney and ORL at Christmas is nice, but probably one of those one-time things. If it's impossible to get unless I choose ORL as home resort, that might sway me towards ORL but if it's still possible, then choosing LV for lower MFs would be the way to go?


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## Talent312 (Aug 9, 2012)

MisterX said:


> If I choose LV as a home resort, how hard is it get spring break (Mar-Aprl) or Christmas in ORL at 9 months out? ... If it's impossible to get unless I choose ORL as home resort, that might sway me towards ORL but if it's still possible, then choosing LV for lower MFs would be the way to go?



It's fairly easy to book HGVC in Orlando, even less than 9 months out.
Orlando is full of TS resorts and Hilton has three with lots of space.
Usually, you can even find lots of last-minute ("cash") availability.

Certain holidays, such as Thanksgiving & Christmas, can be tight.
So just book closer to 9 months out, and you'll be okay.


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