# Raintree's downhill slide continues



## T_R_Oglodyte (Feb 23, 2015)

So, now the Vila Vera properties in Zihuatenejo and Isla Mujeres are no longer available through Raintree, even by rental.  (They stopped allowing members to book Vila Vera using points earlier - with the excuse that the resorts "weren't up to standards". Right.  If that were the case then they shouldn't have been offering them through rental either.) Vila Vera sold the properties to Wyndham and they're going to become Worldmark Resorts.  Presumably, Raintree had the opportunity to buy the properties, as they did the Vila Vera in Puerto Vallarta, but couldn't.  If the properties are good enough for Wyndham you would think they would be good enough for Raintree.  Which strongly suggests that Raintree just didn't have the cash to do so.

Or course, one of the key things that made Raintree attractive in the first place was the addition of the Vila Vera properties to the three Club Regina properties.  So now Raintree's direct operations in Mexico are pretty much back to the original Club Regina properties, plus the Vila Vera in Puerto Vallarta.  Of course, they've mothballed about 75% of the Vila Vera property in Puerto Vallarta due to low occupancy. The resort map, of course, continues to show a lot of dots because they have the limited inventory swaps with other resorts (Diamond, Bluegreen, Grand Regina). But the inventory is limited and are marked up tremendously from what those units costs to owners of those systems.

Continuing on, there's the saga of Miners Club, which at one time was Raintree's jewel resort but which Raintree was never able to buildout.  Wyndham apparently took over the unbuilt portion and finished it off and is running the property successfully. And apparently Wyndham has even bought inventory in Miners Club that Raintree was unable to sell.  And then there's the interesting Raintree 7 and Raintree 15 conversion programs, in which members can terminate their contracts early in exchange for a relatively modest upfront payment.  In offering these programs, Raintree is essentially swapping future revenue for immediate cash.  And there was the special assessment of several years ago, in which Raintree was hitting members up for money to cover what was essentially operating expenses.

Put it all together and this looks like a company that is cash short, lacks the finances to make reasonable investments to sustain long-term profitability and to meet long-term plans, and is actually struggling maintain liquidity.  The long-term prognosis here just does not look good to me.  I have been thinking  that Diamond was going to move in on them, particularly since Diamond did have an purchase deal in place about eight years ago.  (The deal tanked in the credit crunch when the lenders withdrew the bridge financing.)  But now it's looking more as if Wyndham is the circling vulture.

We did the Raintree 7 conversion, and we intend to burn those points as quickly as we can.  Of course, I would encourage other Raintree members to do the same.


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## JudyS (Feb 23, 2015)

Steve, is Raintree the system with membership tiers named after gems (Emerald, Sapphire, and Ruby, I think) in addition to the usual names such as gold and silver? 

If it is, I considered buying in this system a few years back. You were very helpful with your advice, and in the end, I decided not to buy. 

I'm glad you have an exit strategy in place, and thanks for keeping us informed.


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## T_R_Oglodyte (Feb 23, 2015)

JudyS said:


> Steve, is Raintree the system with membership tiers named after gems (Emerald, Sapphire, and Ruby, I think) in addition to the usual names such as gold and silver?
> 
> If it is, I considered buying in this system a few years back. You were very helpful with your advice, and in the end, I decided not to buy.
> 
> I'm glad you have an exit strategy in place, and thanks for keeping us informed.



Yeah - that's the system, though it's all been converted to points instead of gem values.  That was actually a plus, since it gives greater flexibility in usage.


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## sjsharkie (Feb 23, 2015)

On the flip side, I own Worldmark so I'll be excited once the transition is complete.  Thanks for the info!

-ryan


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## Bill4728 (Feb 24, 2015)

I've heard some some owners of Raintree that their ownership weeks at the Westin in Whistler has higher MFs than it would cost to rent the exact same rooms from Westin hotels.  That is really bad


PS the TS within the westin resort in Whistler are not westin TS but belong to Raintree/Whiski Jack


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## T_R_Oglodyte (Feb 25, 2015)

Bill4728 said:


> I've heard some some owners of Raintree that their ownership weeks at the Westin in Whistler has higher MFs than it would cost to rent the exact same rooms from Westin hotels.  That is really bad
> 
> 
> PS the TS within the westin resort in Whistler are not westin TS but belong to Raintree/Whiski Jack


I don't know about MFs. I do remember receiving a notice that Westin added a daily room charge, supposedly to cover maid service and resort activities.  That really blew apart the economics.


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## Bill4728 (Feb 27, 2015)

Bill4728 said:


> I've heard some some owners of Raintree that their ownership weeks at the Westin in Whistler has higher MFs than it would cost to rent the exact same rooms from Westin hotels.  That is really bad
> 
> 
> PS the TS within the westin resort in Whistler are not westin TS but belong to Raintree/Whiski Jack





T_R_Oglodyte said:


> I don't know about MFs. I do remember receiving a notice that Westin added a daily room charge, supposedly to cover maid service and resort activities.  That really blew apart the economics.


Now that you commented, you may be right  BUT still the charges ( MFs and resorts charges) to stay in their own TS are more than the cost Westin charges the general public for the same units.


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## T_R_Oglodyte (Feb 27, 2015)

Bill4728 said:


> Now that you commented, you may be right  BUT still the charges ( MFs and resorts charges) to stay in their own TS are more than the cost Westin charges the general public for the same units.



Not disputing that at all, as I believe that is correct.  IMHO, it's just another data point for how messed up Raintree is.

Another piece that for me is hanging is the balance of ownership versus usage rights.  Did Raintree sell ownership points based upon the availability in the Vila Vera properties?  If so, with the Vila Vera resorts gone and Raintree selling off inventory to Wyndham, might the now be in a situation where they have sold more points than they have supporting inventory? That information is not readily available.


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