# first timers



## Lillilace (Feb 6, 2009)

Summer 2010 will be our first time in Europe with our 2 teens. 
Should we book a timeshare and plan on sightseeing on our own or should we book a group tour that plans our stays & sightseeing?
We're thinking Spain, Italy or France.


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## Lawlar (Feb 6, 2009)

*Plan According To Your Interests*

I think the answer depends on what interests you and your family.  I have been to Europe twice (both times I stayed a week in London and a week in Paris).  I enjoy visiting Cathedrals and museums (my wife likes to shop and see shows).  I like to stay for hours in museums (I think I spent at least 5 full days at the Louvre – I felt sad for the tour groups I saw rushing through the museum so that they could get back to their tour busses within the allotted time).  I also enjoy walking around the cities and discovering places that I never would have seen on a planned tour.  

The problem with guided tours is that you are on a schedule that might not fit your interests.  That may be more of a problem if you have children who may want to see other sights and activities.

My best advice: Get some good tour books – Frommer’s is pretty good - of the places that interest you.  Check out the books’ recommendations.  Planning the trip can be fun – just allow for spontaneity and allow a little serendipity to guide you.


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## hibbeln (Feb 6, 2009)

If you are at all interested in planning (and planning is half the fun!) then absolutely do it on your own.  We've been travelling to Europe with our kids since the oldest was 20 months (he's now 14) and we've never done a "tour group".

The advantage with kids/teens to doing it on your own, is that you can see what you want, skip what you don't, no long hours on busses, no getting up at 6 a.m. to be at the scheduled breakfast and on the bus by 7 a.m (and with the jetlag there is no way you could get a teen to do that and still be happy).

I would HEARTILY recommend the Rick Steve's Guidebooks.  They are fun and funny and irreverent and give you history in a very engaging fashion that will have your teens completely engaged.  They tend to cut through all the millions of things you *could* see and boil it down to "this is really what you are going to *want* to see."  And he's always been right, and he's directed us to many very cool off the wall places. 

What you can do is book tours (either with a private guide or a small group) in select places on select days so you get more information (we did this for the Normandy D-Day beaches and it was FABULOUS.  My one son declared it "The best day of my life!") that you might on your own.  We also did this in Germany (Hitler's Eagle's Nest in Berchtesgaden) and for a daytrip to Morocco from Spain.

We have stayed in timeshares in Europe in the south of Spain (Malaga area, which was GREAT for visiting Southern Spain, the Alhambra in Granada, Morocco on a day tour, the Rock of Gibraltar...) and in Garmisch-Partenkirchen in southern Germany.  We have rented in Italy/Sicily, Paris (twice), Normandy France, Germany, Austria, and this Easter will be Greece.  On our trip to Germany we did a mix of timeshare and renting.

Next on our "we want to go there" list is Moscow and St. Petersburg.  Our kids always love to go places because they help to pick and get involved with learning in advance.  In fact, we went to Normandy simply because my one son really wanted to see the D-Day beaches there.  Turns out it was our favorite trip ever!

But again.....for guidebooks, get Rick Steve's.  Even your teenagers will enjoy reading them!


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## DeniseM (Feb 6, 2009)

On a fully guided tour, it's likely that most of the folks will be senior citizens, which might not be much fun for your teens...


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## mamadot (Feb 6, 2009)

I agree with Deb in Michigan. Rick Steves is great. Especially with kids your ages. We use him all the time when traveling. Basic down to earth suggestions and he is funny also. We have rented cars and traveled in Italy, France and Spain.  Never a problem.

Enjoy your trip.  It will be a wonderful family memory!


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## Passepartout (Feb 6, 2009)

I second- or is it third- Rick Steve's guides. Read them thoroughly then rip out the places you won't be going. Put one kid in charge of researching/planning a country, or a week. Break it up however you wish.

I love Italy. Any part. The food, the history, the art, the people. My second fav is Spain, distant third is France.waaaay behind Poland, Czech Republic, Scotland, Belgium and a lot of others, but that's just me. You may find it's your cup 'o' tea. 

Jim Ricks


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## Carolinian (Feb 7, 2009)

Guided tours focus on someone else's priorites, which may not be your own.  There are plenty of good guide books out there to help you select your own sight seeing priorities, hotels, and restaurants.  The best is Rough Guide, followed by Lonely Planet.  If you are sticking to big cities, the In Your Pocket series in good for central and eastern Europe and some parts of western Europe.  I have looked at Rick Steves guides in the bookstores but they are a step below Rough Guide, Lonely Planet, and Let's Go.  IMHO Rick Steves has the same problem as a guided tour, in that he gives too small a range of choices for travellers to make their own selections.

The only places I have done guided tours were places that my comfort level was not as great, and that has been exactly two, a day trip to Tangier, Morrocco from Spain, and my first trip to Russia soon after the fall of Communism.  Even on that second one, while I stayed with the guide in St. Petersburg, I had learned my way around enough to abandon the guide in Moscow.

The UK is a good bet for first timers.  The comfort level with a common language is higher, and there is lots to see.  The pound has also dropped more against the dollar than the euro has.


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## Keitht (Feb 7, 2009)

I would certainly agree with the 'independent' view.  Far more flexibility about your itinerary that way.  If you plan to use timeshare do plenty of homework about the resort location and access to places you want to visit.


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## geekette (Feb 7, 2009)

Definitely go it alone!

My mother did a tour group thing to Europe and said so much time was spent loading and unloading the bus, and too much push to shop.  They did get to see a lot of famous places.

You can save money on your own and do what you want and not have to wait for the 60 other people to board.

The other problem would be the hours.  No way I would ever get dh out of bed and onto a bus before noon.


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## hibbeln (Feb 9, 2009)

My kids actually will read the history sections out loud from Rick Steve's guidebooks while we're driving, and have us all listening intently and often laughing.  *That's* a minor miracle!   

On a trip to Southern Spain, I had several guidebooks including a Rough Guide because we were walking in with very little base knowledge of the area.  What I often find is that the other guidebooks give TOO many options for someone who is on a 1 week trip.  It's mentally exhausting and sometimes you just want someone to say "let's cut through everything available and weed out what you probably will be happiest to see".....and that's what Rick Steve's does.  I supplement his books with photocopies I make from super-comprehensive guidebooks at the library and have those stashed in my suitcase "just in case".   It is almost like a guided-tour-in-a-book.....but one that let's your teenagers sleep in one morning, and that let's you lay on a rock and soak up the sun if you want.

One question for you......is this going to be a "once in a lifetime" trip, or will there be others?  How long will you go for?

The reason I ask is that we (as a family) find we get SO much more out of a trip if we concentrate on one country.  We practice the language (we have Greek phrases posted all over the house right now to learn) and get documentaries on history and culture from the library or off t.v.  We learn about the area and the history (and the art if you're going someplace like Paris) and then the kids really get a lot out of it.  You want to spend at least a week in each country.  If you're even going to be hopping from spot to spot within a country, I would recommend 10 days.  Packing up and moving is a huge drag.

I believe Rick Steve's has a general European guidebook called "Best of Europe" that has itineraries for various lengths of trips.  That would probably be a really good place to start and let the whole family browse through it and see what really gets everyone excited. Excitement is the main thing with kids/teens.  If they say "that sounds cool!" then you will all have a good time.  Some teens might REALLY want to go to Paris, others might want to go to battlefields, others might want to tour castles in the Loire or canoe in the Dordogne or hike mountain trails to abbeys.  

I can highly recommend his phrasebooks too.......your teens will get a huge giggle out of some of the words and phrases (he hits it ALL).....and nothing is useless in there.  We even had the chance to use the phrase "Pull over or I will throw up!" in Sicily when my youngest son was in kindergarten (and extremely green on a windy country road through the interior).


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## Lillilace (Feb 10, 2009)

We will be going for 2 weeks. This is my daughters graduation present. Hopefully there will be more trips in the future.
   We do not speak any other language (my daughter speaks Spanish ) which concerns me . And the driving, getting lost, not knowing how to use the trains, money exchange, is just some of the concerns about traveling by ourselves but you have all given me great suggestions and encouragement to travel on our own. 
   We probably should consider traveling to a country first which has no language barriers. We do not need to travel to several countries just that we were considering one of the countries in my first post.
    Thank you all for your great comments.


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## cr4909 (Feb 10, 2009)

In terms of accomodations, I would look to rent an apartment instead of timeshares.  There are very few timeshares in Europe in the cities and it makes a lot more sense to choose one or two cities as your base and rent an apartment in the center of the city(cities) you choose.  That way, you can probably forego the car and rely on public transit to explore the city and make daytrips outside.  Plus, you should still have a full kitchen, private bath, etc, for a cheaper price than a hotel and comparable to many timeshare MF's.  Look at vrbo.com or various other sites.

From my perspective, part of the adventure of Europe is getting out and exploring a city or country where English is not the native language.  And most of Western Europe you will be able to find people who can speak some English, anyway.  UK is very low on my list of countries to visit.


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## Carolinian (Feb 10, 2009)

I have travelled in far more off the beaten path countries where English is not the native language, including places like Bosnia, Ukraine, Moldova, Bulgaria, Serbia, Albania, Montenegro, etc., without any serious problem.  In western Europe, English is spoken widely enough that it is no problem at all.  Indeed, in some coutries like the Netherlands, it is hard to find someone who does NOT speak English.


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## Lillilace (Feb 15, 2009)

I was on Rick Stevens website and noticed that he has tours available. Has anyone taken a tour with his company?  Just inquiring. I went to his website to check out his tour books and realized he does tours also.


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## Keitht (Feb 15, 2009)

Lillilace said:


> We do not speak any other language (my daughter speaks Spanish ) which concerns me . And the driving, getting lost, not knowing how to use the trains, money exchange, is just some of the concerns about traveling by ourselves but you have all given me great suggestions and encouragement to travel on our own.
> We probably should consider traveling to a country first which has no language barriers.



I think you are worrying needlessly about the language problems, at least in the major cities and tourist areas of Western Europe.  When we Brits travel in Europe we also have the language to deal with and it can actually be quite entertaining at times.  Road signs are pretty much universal in their meaning and direction signs are OK too.  To be honest the 'worst' road signage I have seen, from a European perspective, has been in the US.  The signs seem to be very close to junctions / exits and it's very easy to be past them before you realise.
What will help greatly is to learn just a few words, enough to say 'Yes', 'No', 'Please' and 'Thank You'.  That suggests to the locals that you are making an effort.


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## hibbeln (Feb 15, 2009)

OK, don't panic.  It's all OK.  Get the Rick Steve's books and read through them.  They give you really good advice on everything you're wondering....everything from the best way to get $ to how to order a good coffee (hey, this stuff is IMPORTANT when it's 8 a.m. and you're jetlagged) to the intricacies of restaurants to how to drive and road signs. It's all covered.

We have travelled with our kids in Germany, Austria, Italy (including Sicily), Spain, Gibraltar, Morocco, France.....and Greece is coming up next.  We've rented cars and driven in all of the above (well, not Morocco) and never had a problem.  The only time we ever had a problem was on our first toll road in France when we couldn't figure out how to pay a toll!  I ended up popping out of the car, running across 5 lanes of toll booths, begging a toll agent to come and help me.....they laughed their heads off and showed me that I had to use a credit card.  Friendly as could be.  In Sicily where literally NO ONE spoke English we would often find that we would walk into a bakery or restaurant or shop and they would drag out some poor high school kid from the back that was taking English, or we would be pulled into the kitchen and the chef would give us a personal "tour" of the food.  Sometimes not knowing the language makes for all the more memorable experiences.  If you're going to be in a major urban area only (like Paris or Rome...) then you don't need a car until you want to leave.  It would be like having a car in New York City.

We have found that in major tourist areas, English is widely spoken.  But get a Rick Steve's phrasebook and even if you only learn the "essential" phrases inside the front cover you can get by and will score major points with the locals for at least trying.  Once you're outside of major tourists areas, life tends to be so slow that if you have a language barrier, everyone has the time to play a jolly game of pantomimes and sign language with you until you all understand each other (teenagers and kids have far fewer inhibitions and embarrassments, so your teens will be a huge asset at this).  It's actually FUN, believe it or not.  Right now we have Greek phrases all over the house.....Please, Thank you, Good Day, I want, Do you speak English, I don't speak Greek, A table for 5......Just learning a few things will be enough.

I would have to think that any kind of tour (even Rick Steve's) would be both pricey and a possible misery with teenagers.


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## Laurie (Feb 15, 2009)

As long as you can at least say "Do you speak English?" in the country's native language, if the person you're speaking to can't, they'll probably point you to someone who can. That's always in the instructions we leave for the folks who might need to call us in an emergency, when we're out of the country.

That phrase, plus the few mentioned above, plus a few others - "where is," "bathroom", "how much", numbers, and basic food names will get you a long way. I agree that your family may find your trip to be more of an adventure if you travel to a country where English is not the primary language.

I've heard nothing but great things about the Rick Steves tours - we prefer to go on our own, but that's the only tour company we might consider if we were travelling somewhere we wanted a tour.


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## stmartinfan (Feb 16, 2009)

As the parent of two teens who has traveled with them on several European trips, I would not recommend taking a guided tour.  (And I have done one of those myself in Italy many years ago.)  Most tours focus on "important things" like museums, cathedrals, historic sites, etc., and for many kids it can get boring quickly.  We also like Rick Steves books, supplemented by another more complete book like Fodors, to thoroughly research somewhere before we go. We also use online sites that show people's trip reports, tourism sites from the place we're going, etc.    

We rent apartment accommodations from online sites in major cities like Paris, London, Madrid or Barcelona.  We have a short list of things we really want to see, and then allow lots of time to just hang out and experience the city.  We don't try to do too much in one day, just make it a leisurely time to tour than then just walk around.  (Remember, kids need as much sleep when they are teens as when they are toddlers and their current biorythums make it hard to get up early!)  Our kids learn more about what it's like to live in another country by going to the grocery store, riding the subway, shopping for new tennis shoes or eating a gelato than looking inside their 3rd cathedral of the day.  We do really like the open top tour buses you find in most cities as a way to get a quick overall orientation to the city on our first day.  You get some entertaining (although not often correct) narration, the chance to hop on and off, and a chance to get the layout of the city.  We never rent a car in a major city, just use public transportation or walk.

If you're apprehensive about doing it on your own the first time, I'd recommend visiting only 1 or 2 locations, to minimize the hassles of moving around, and try to stay in large cities, so you don't need a rental car.  As others have said, you'll have few problems with communication if you are in one of the larger European cities.  Of course you don't have to take this approach, but given your concerns it would be a way to make your first trip easier to plan.

My only warning:  Travel can become addicting, so those teens may be ready to go again soon!


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## beejaybeeohio (Feb 17, 2009)

*Go for independence!*

Don't be intimidated by language differences.  As others have suggested choose one or two countries to visit and learn key phrases for basic communication.  Driving in Europe is not intimidating, especially since GPS are widely available and are invaluable in cities.  

We have used timeshares for our European travels, staying in the countryside of Scotland, Austria, Switzerland and England, and booking hotels for visiting the major cities.  For example, during our timeshare week in Austria, we left midweek for an overnite in Vienna.  Conversely, when we stay at our timeshare near Dublin city, we travel overnite to the countryside of Ireland.

Rick Steves is a great resource.  I believe his touring company does have family/teen oriented trips that you might look into, although they can be spendy.


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