# Change in MVC ownership tiers



## logos5 (Aug 21, 2019)

I just came back from a sales pitch and one of the things I was told was that starting Sept 1 the point requirements for the ownership tiers are changing. 

Select will now start at 6000 and Chairman's club is going away
Price per point is also going to be jumping quite significantly as they roll in Hyatt and the other acquisitions
I was shown a memo as proof, anyone else hear about this? It factored into a purchase I made, I'm still in my rescind period and want to make sure I wasn't just fed a story.


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## vacationtime1 (Aug 21, 2019)

If you bought on the fear that benefit levels would change and you would lose out, you should rescind.

But even if you didn't, developer purchases seldom make economic sense compared to the prices available on the secondary market -- because *most developer purchases lose 65-99% of their value as soon as the rescission period is over.*

How many points did you buy?  What did you pay per point?  How long do you have to rescind?


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## Norcal5 (Aug 22, 2019)

Is Chairmans getting replaced by another level or just getting merged with Presidential?


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## CPNY (Aug 22, 2019)

logos5 said:


> I just came back from a sales pitch and one of the things I was told was that starting Sept 1 the point requirements for the ownership tiers are changing.
> 
> Select will now start at 6000 and Chairman's club is going away
> Price per point is also going to be jumping quite significantly as they roll in Hyatt and the other acquisitions
> I was shown a memo as proof, anyone else hear about this? It factored into a purchase I made, I'm still in my rescind period and want to make sure I wasn't just fed a story.


What did this memo say? I’m not going to go down this road again, but I was told the prices were going up 3 months ago

Someone else was shown a memo or document back in July I believe. In my limited life experience, I’ve learned that nothing is official until it is official and nothing is absolute except death.

If what you say is true which it could very well be, that would go against what others were saying about another level after CC was being added.


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## pchung6 (Aug 22, 2019)

CPNY said:


> What did this memo say? I’m not going to go down this road again, but I was told the prices were going up 3 months ago
> 
> Someone else was shown a memo or document back in July I believe. In my limited life experience, I’ve learned that nothing is official until it is official and nothing is absolute except death.
> 
> If what you say is true which it could very well be, that would go against what others were saying about another level after CC was being added.



Here we go. Please not again. It is just sales tactic to scare you so you have to buy now.


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## logos5 (Aug 22, 2019)

I've got 10 days to rescind. This isn't my first purchase (I have 2K currently) but I wasn't planning on purchasing more just yet either. I had the option of purchasing 1000 pts and freezing the select tier at 4000 points for me so once I bought another 1k later on I'd get Select despite the fact that Select will require 6000 points going forward.

I bought 2000 pts @ 12.8. 

I don't remember the exact wording but it wasn't getting replaced by another level, just going away which probably means merged.

The other change that is coming is that the minimum number of points that can be purchased is going up to 1,500.


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## TXTortoise (Aug 22, 2019)

Looks like you could do 2000 points resale at $4 for about $15K, just for comparison.

https://vacationpointexchange.com/resale/


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## logos5 (Aug 22, 2019)

Yep, you're right. Just started looking at resale options. Definitely much cheaper!

As for the memo, it did say June - Aug so it's probably what they have been showing people throughout the summer to pressure buyers in advance of changes in Sept.


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## vacationtime1 (Aug 22, 2019)

My suggestion:  rescind and rent points as needed.

No upfront cost and the price to rent is <5% more than the underlying MF's.


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## StevenTing (Aug 22, 2019)

Bunch of lies.  If it was a true memo, they would have given to us copy.


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## CPNY (Aug 22, 2019)

logos5 said:


> I've got 10 days to rescind. This isn't my first purchase (I have 2K currently) but I wasn't planning on purchasing more just yet either. I had the option of purchasing 1000 pts and freezing the select tier at 4000 points for me so once I bought another 1k later on I'd get Select despite the fact that Select will require 6000 points going forward.
> 
> I bought 2000 pts @ 12.8.
> 
> ...


So the minimum points you can buy are going to be 1500 and level changes. Where in the memo did it state “as they roll in Hyatt and other acquisitions” as you mentioned in your OP? Did it say that or did the sales rep verbally add that? That would be helpful if they are having pricing changes or new levels or tweaks to existing sales strategy. That happens a lot. The bigger issue is the “overlay” or how they “roll in”. Was that on that document or was that added verbally? Of course I was told end of the year 4Q to expect new program so “buy in now” by the VSE sales rep. Just spoke to MVC rep who is much less pressure when dealing with central sales and there have been NO mention of any changes to structure or levels or price increases because of “roll ins” so take that for what’s it’s worth


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## Pocky87 (Aug 22, 2019)

They recently got many people to try off with 4,000 for Select level... I'm not sure how true the memo is... and usually I will get them to put those terms they mentioned in writing...


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## teddyo333 (Aug 22, 2019)

I would rescind and wait until the official announcement is made. I attended a similar presentation recently and even though there was no pressure, the sales rep was not comfortable providing something in writing. The only thing that anyone can confirm is that "Change is coming". And the only reason we know it is coming is because the CEO officially announced this.


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## logos5 (Aug 22, 2019)

CPNY said:


> So the minimum points you can buy are going to be 1500 and level changes. Where in the memo did it state “as they roll in Hyatt and other acquisitions” as you mentioned in your OP? Did it say that or did the sales rep verbally add that? That would be helpful if they are having pricing changes or new levels or tweaks to existing sales strategy. That happens a lot. The bigger issue is the “overlay” or how they “roll in”. Was that on that document or was that added verbally? Of course I was told end of the year 4Q to expect new program so “buy in now” by the VSE sales rep. Just spoke to MVC rep who is much less pressure when dealing with central sales and there have been NO mention of any changes to structure or levels or price increases because of “roll ins” so take that for what’s it’s worth



Great points. The memo mentioned the change in levels and the 1500 minimum if I recall correctly. The rep verbally explained that this was happening because of Hyatt/Vistana/etc. He also mentioned that price per point was going up to the $20-24 range specifically because of Hyatt. He also mentioned that going forward that you wanted to be in the points vs weeks/destination programs and that the Hyatt/Sheraton/etc people needed to buy into the points program. 

The feedback I'm getting from all of you is helping to make sense between fact and a story to get me to buy more points. Thanks!!


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## CPNY (Aug 22, 2019)

logos5 said:


> Great points. The memo mentioned the change in levels and the 1500 minimum if I recall correctly. The rep verbally explained that this was happening because of Hyatt/Vistana/etc. He also mentioned that price per point was going up to the $20-24 range specifically because of Hyatt. He also mentioned that going forward that you wanted to be in the points vs weeks/destination programs and that the Hyatt/Sheraton/etc people needed to buy into the points program.
> 
> The feedback I'm getting from all of you is helping to make sense between fact and a story to get me to buy more points. Thanks!!



Reports have been coming back that all others will have to buy into the DC system. Of course that could all be lies to get you to buy into the DC program now. I was told by the VSE rep to buy into Westin or Sheraton Flex now because the prices are going up. Flex would be eligible in any new program so buy now before prices go up. It’s all high pressure sales. Correct, you’ll need to have points to play. Some weeks owners have points associated with their weeks on both sides (weeks enrolled in DC and those weeks in the VSN). I’m not saying you made a bad purchase, however you made an ill informed purchase if you bought solely on sales reps word. You may be able to rescind and buy resale cheaper. Other who are more knowledgeable about the DC program will give you more guidance. Hey, maybe the document was legit and everything you were told is 100% accurate, I can’t say for certain it’s not.


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## VacationForever (Aug 22, 2019)

TXTortoise said:


> Looks like you could do 2000 points resale at $4 for about $15K, just for comparison.
> 
> https://vacationpointexchange.com/resale/


To bring it into the Marriott system, you need to add junk fees to it at $3 per point + some other fees.  It will come up to more than $7 per point.


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## TXTortoise (Aug 22, 2019)

VacationForever said:


> To bring it into the Marriott system, you need to add junk fees to it at $3 per point + some other fees.  It will come up to more than $7 per point.


Unless I misunderstand @StevenTing ’s calculator, junk fees are included as the large enrollment cost on the right side.


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## dgf15215 (Aug 23, 2019)

My own experience over many years of ownership is that anything you clearly remember from that sales pitch is likely a terrific exaggeration of anything really known or thought to be known. If it was real, it would be in your mailbox as real incentives to buy, and in all of our mailboxes. As it is, I'd rescind. I wish I knew years ago what I've learned here over the past five or so years.


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## Steve Fatula (Aug 23, 2019)

TXTortoise said:


> Unless I misunderstand @StevenTing ’s calculator, junk fees are included as the large enrollment cost on the right side.



2k points at $15k is about right. You did read it correctly.


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## logos5 (Aug 26, 2019)

dgf15215 said:


> My own experience over many years of ownership is that anything you clearly remember from that sales pitch is likely a terrific exaggeration of anything really known or thought to be known. If it was real, it would be in your mailbox as real incentives to buy, and in all of our mailboxes. As it is, I'd rescind. I wish I knew years ago what I've learned here over the past five or so years.



These are some wise words! I did rescind.


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## LUVourMarriotts (Aug 28, 2019)

logos5 said:


> *I had the option of purchasing 1000 pts and freezing the select tier at 4000 points for me so once I bought another 1k later on I'd get Select despite the fact that Select will require 6000 points going forward.*



It sounds like you already rescinded (is that a word?), but I would also suggest that if the above were true, about the freezing, you would have signed a specific document that provided you that freeze.  If you did not, it would not happen.  This sounds like a poorly disguised lie, to me.


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## StevenTing (Aug 28, 2019)

I was reviewing the exchange procedures document again, only in part.  It looks like status is not guaranteed when they change/raise the threshold for the different levels.  I haven't reviewed the complete document, only this portion.

Page 11/12.  VII MISCELLANEOUS. Section A. Member Recognition Levels.
Bolding is from the Document.

https://www.marriottvacationsworldw...20171031/nato/exchange_procedures_english.pdf



> Page 12.
> 
> *In the event the minimum number of Exchange Points required to maintain Select Member, Executive Member, Presidential Member or Chairman’s Club Member eligibility is raised above the number of Exchange Points allocated to a Program Member’s Interests at any given time, the Program Member will be entitled to enjoy the benefits and privileges afforded to Select Members, Executive Members, Presidential Members or Chairman’s Club Members, as applicable, until the end of the calendar year following that in which the Program Member no longer meets the respective Select Member, Executive Member, Presidential Member or Chairman’s Club Member eligibility requirements.* If the Program Member purchases Interests with sufficient Exchange Points to reestablish Select Member, Executive Member, Presidential Member or Chairman’s Club Member eligibility prior to the end of such calendar year, the Program Member shall maintain eligibility to be a Select Member, Executive Member, Presidential Member or Chairman’s Club Member, as applicable. *In the event that the minimum number of Exchange Points required to maintain Select Member, Executive Member, Presidential Member or Chairman’s Club Member eligibility is greater than the number of Exchange Points allocated to a Program Member’s Interests due to the transfer of any of Program Member’s Interests, Program Member’s eligibility to enjoy the benefits and privileges afforded to Select Members, Executive Members, Presidential Members or Chairman’s Club Members shall not be extended for any period and shall be terminated on the first day of the month following the applicable transfer of the Program Member’s Interests. *Any Exchange Points assigned to an Interest that is owned by more than one Program Member shall be included in calculating the number of Exchange Points attributed to each Program Member owning such Interest when determining whether such Program Members are eligible to become Select Members, Executive Members, Presidential Members or Chairman’s Club Members. Select Members, Executive Members, Presidential Members or Chairman’s Club Members may be assessed additional fees or charges for certain benefits and privileges granted to Select Members, Executive Members, Presidential Members or Chairman’s Club Members, as applicable, and as determined by Exchange Company from time to time. Exchange Company reserves the right to deny Select, Executive, Presidential or Chairman’s Club status to any Program Member or group of Program Members which Exchange Company determines in Exchange Company’s sole discretion has structured its ownership in a manner to achieve such status by circumventing the intent of only recognizing Program Members or groups of Program Members who are joined by customarily recognized affinities.


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## StevenTing (Aug 28, 2019)

There's not an explicit "grandfather" clause but there is something close for Executive and Chairman's Club. When we went from 2 tiers to 5 tiers, the previous levels were preserved.  If they change the tiers again, they will need to make an amendment to add in the exceptions to allow for the grandfathering of tiers.

Chairman's Club - Page 18



> Chairman’s Club Member means a Program Member who has achieved a “Chairman’s Club” level of membership by meeting the qualifications for such level of membership as established by the Exchange Company from time to time. *“Chairman’s Club Member” shall also include such Program Members who held at least 13,000 Exchange Points as of April 29, 2015; provided, however, that such Program Member shall only be entitled to retain the classification as a Chairman’s Club Member for so long as such Program Member holds not less than 13,000 Exchange Points; if such Program Member ever holds less than 13,000 Exchange Points, such Program Member’s level of membership shall thereafter be determined by the then current qualifications for levels of membership established by Exchange Company. *For the purpose of determining Chairman’s Club Member status, Program Members shall be deemed to hold all Exchange Points related to Interests that are titled in their name, either independently or as a named titleholder among a group of titleholders, which are enrolled with Exchange Company if required to do so. In the event a Program Member transfers any of the Program Member’s Interests, only the Interests retained by the Program Member after the transfer shall be considered in determining the number of *Exchange Points deemed held by the Program Member. Exchange Company shall have the reserved right to add, create or revise qualification criteria from time to time such as, for example, qualifying status based on the manner in which and from whom Exchange Points were acquired. Exchange Company shall have the right to determine who constitutes a Chairman’s Club Member based on criteria and conditions it determines from time to time, in its sole discretion, all of which shall remain subject to modification by Exchange Company from time to time in its sole discretion.*



Presidential Member - Page 21


> Presidential Member means a Program Member who has achieved a “Presidential” level of membership by meeting the qualifications for such level of membership as established by the Exchange Company from time to time. For the purpose of determining Presidential Member status, Program Members shall be deemed to hold all Exchange Points related to Interests that are titled in their name, either independently or as a named titleholder among a group of titleholders, which are enrolled with Exchange Company if required to do so. In the event a Program Member transfers any of the Program Member’s Interests, only the Interests retained by the Program Member after the transfer shall be considered in determining the number of Exchange Points deemed held by the Program Member. *Exchange Company shall have the reserved right to add, create or revise qualification criteria from time to time such as, for example, qualifying status based on the manner in which and from whom Exchange Points were acquired. Exchange Company shall have the right to determine who constitutes a Presidential Member based on criteria and conditions it determines from time to time, in its sole discretion, all of which shall remain subject to modification by Exchange Company from time to time in its sole discretion.*



Executive Member - Page 20


> Executive Member means a Program Member who has achieved an “Executive” level of membership by meeting the qualifications for such level of membership as established by the Exchange Company from time to time. *“Executive Member” shall also include such Program Members who held at least 6,500 Exchange Points, but not more than 9,999 Exchange Points, as of April 29, 2015; provided, however, that such Program Member shall only be entitled to retain the classification as an Executive Member for so long as such Program Member holds not less than 6,500 Exchange Points; if such Program Member ever holds less than 6,500 Exchange Points, such Program Member’s level of membership shall thereafter be determined by the then-current qualifications for levels of membership established by Exchange Company.* For the purpose of determining Executive Member status, Program Members shall be deemed to hold all Exchange Points related to Interests that are titled in their name, either independently or as a named titleholder among a group of titleholders, which are enrolled with Exchange Company if required to do so. In the event a Program Member transfers any of the Program Member’s Interests, only the Interests retained by the Program Member after the transfer shall be considered in determining the number of Exchange Points deemed held by the Program Member. *Exchange Company shall have the reserved right to add, create or revise qualification criteria from time to time such as, for example, qualifying status based on the manner in which and from whom Exchange Points were acquired. Exchange Company shall have the right to determine who constitutes an Executive Member based on criteria and conditions it determines from time to time, in its sole discretion, all of which shall remain subject to modification by Exchange Company from time to time in its sole discretion*.



Select Member - Page 23


> Select Member means a Program Member who has achieved a “Select” level of membership by meeting the qualifications for such level of membership as established by the Exchange Company from time to time. For the purpose of determining Select Member status, Program Members shall be deemed to hold all Exchange Points related to Interests that are titled in their name, either independently or as a named titleholder among a group of titleholders, which are enrolled with Exchange Company if required to do so. In the event a Program Member transfers any of the Program Member’s Interests, only the Interests retained by the Program Member after the transfer shall be considered in determining the number of Exchange Points deemed held by the Program Member. *Exchange Company shall have the reserved right to add, create or revise qualification criteria from time to time such as, for example, qualifying status based on the manner in which and from whom Exchange Points were acquired. Exchange Company shall have the right to determine who constitutes a Select Member based on criteria and conditions it determines from time to time, in its sole discretion, all of which shall remain subject to modification by Exchange Company from time to time in its sole discretion*.


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## SueDonJ (Aug 28, 2019)

We talked about this when they adjusted the status tiers the first/only time, how the grandfathering that they allowed was in direct contrast to what was written in the original governing docs. It'll be interesting to see if they follow the grandfathering precedent that they set if/when they do another adjustment.


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## StevenTing (Aug 28, 2019)

logos5 said:


> I just came back from a sales pitch and one of the things I was told was that* starting Sept 1 the point requirements for the ownership tiers are changing. *
> 
> Select will now start at 6000 and Chairman's club is going away
> Price per point is also going to be jumping quite significantly as they roll in Hyatt and the other acquisitions
> I was shown a memo as proof, anyone else hear about this? It factored into a purchase I made, I'm still in my rescind period and want to make sure I wasn't just fed a story.



In 4 days we will know for sure that the salesperson was lying.  What are the odds they were telling the truth?


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## bazzap (Aug 28, 2019)

StevenTing said:


> In 4 days we will know for sure that the salesperson was lying.  What are the odds they were telling the truth?


I am not a betting man, but I might empty out my savings accounts against this one.


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## VacationForever (Aug 28, 2019)

StevenTing said:


> In 4 days we will know for sure that the salesperson was lying.  What are the odds they were telling the truth?


I missed it. Why 4 days?


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## dougp26364 (Aug 28, 2019)

logos5 said:


> I just came back from a sales pitch and one of the things I was told was that starting Sept 1 the point requirements for the ownership tiers are changing.
> 
> Select will now start at 6000 and Chairman's club is going away
> Price per point is also going to be jumping quite significantly as they roll in Hyatt and the other acquisitions
> I was shown a memo as proof, anyone else hear about this? It factored into a purchase I made, I'm still in my rescind period and want to make sure I wasn't just fed a story.



IMHO, it’s always a bad idea to buy on the fear of losing


logos5 said:


> I just came back from a sales pitch and one of the things I was told was that starting Sept 1 the point requirements for the ownership tiers are changing.
> 
> Select will now start at 6000 and Chairman's club is going away
> Price per point is also going to be jumping quite significantly as they roll in Hyatt and the other acquisitions
> I was shown a memo as proof, anyone else hear about this? It factored into a purchase I made, I'm still in my rescind period and want to make sure I wasn't just fed a story.



IMHO, it’s always a bad idea to buy based upon the fear of losing benefits. We’ve owned timeshare in some shape or form. We’ve seen the “fear” tactic so many times my eyes roll back in my head when it gets put on the table. Nothing they’ve ever said I would lose have I actually lost. I’ve seen things added but not taken away.

To that end, we have recently made a purchase with MVC, but not based on fear. We had relinquished our DRI ownerships and found ourselves wanting/needing a little more with MVC ( the program fits our needs well in most cases). We made our purchase based on needs, not fear. 

As to the price going up, they always say that and, it always has. Changes are coming. We all know that. We’d “like” to believe the sales force knows something, but they usually don’t. The next known public announcement is slated for Oct 4th. I’d be surprised if we see or her anything substantial before that time.


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## Fasttr (Aug 28, 2019)

VacationForever said:


> I missed it. Why 4 days?





logos5 said:


> I was told was that starting Sept 1 the point requirements for the ownership tiers are changing.


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## tiel (Aug 28, 2019)

We attended a "presentation" in July at Lakeshore.  In fact, it wasn't really a presentation, at least of any sort we've ever attended.  The representative we had claimed he was not a salesman, but a regular MVC (an accountant) employee.  We did not have the usual get-to-know-you conversation held at the beginning where the salesperson tries to solidify the approach for the sales pitch to be used later.  We did not go into a typical sales office either.  

The rep started with: I've known you were coming in since early this morning, and I found a couple of things you need to fix with your ownership.  He told us  we needed to get rid of our Shadow Ridge and MOW weeks and get trust points instead, since the MF on the weeks were higher than with trust points. He focused on the MOW week, telling us we should sell it or deed it back, and buy 1K trust points at the current rate, using the rationale spending a "little" now will save us a "lot" later.  We understood what he was saying, but it just didn't make sense given our personal situation (we have been talking divesting all of our weeks, perhaps in the next 5 years).  Plus, 1K trust points wouldn't get us into MOW in the fall (when we like to go, in an Oceanside unit);  that's 900 points shy.  In addition, this transaction would drop us down 1 ownership level, which may not be meaningful.  He was adamant about his position, and thought we made a huge mistake by not agreeing to his proposition. BTW, we were never provided with an actual offer of any sort, just the general $1K pts @ the current rate, with no mention of additional costs, no grand total for the purchase.  The whole event was just weird to us.  And, if this approach were appealing at this point, we would go the resale route and save big bucks, or just rent as needed.

ANYWAY, what I was getting to is this:  the rep indicated the owner levels and benefits were going to change a lot very soon, and we would not have the same benefits we have now (we are currently Chairman's Club, with 15K+ pts from our enrolled weeks).  And, if we didn't buy trust points, we would NEVER be able to get into the Vistana/Hyatt/Westin properties when they are merged into the MVC system...whatever "merge" means.  Both of these statements may be accurate, but that's ok with us, we're happy doing what we've been doing.


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## Fasttr (Aug 28, 2019)

tiel said:


> the rep indicated the owner levels and benefits were going to change a lot very soon, and we would not have the same benefits we have now (we are currently Chairman's Club, with 15K+ pts from our enrolled weeks).  And, if we didn't buy trust points, we would NEVER be able to get into the Vistana/Hyatt/Westin properties when they are merged into the MVC system...whatever "merge" means.  Both of these statements may be accurate, but that's ok with us, we're happy doing what we've been doing.


Did you get the impression he was hinting that you would have to have Trust points in your ownership in order for your enrolled weeks to count towards Ownership Benefit Levels, or did you feel he was implying that only Trust points would count toward the hot new ownership levels he was claiming were coming very soon.


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## SueDonJ (Aug 28, 2019)

For whatever it's worth, the last/only time they changed the DC status tiers was April '15 and the first reports of those upcoming changes started filtering out from sales presentations in January '15.


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## VacationForever (Aug 28, 2019)

Got it.  I kept thinking about the Oct 4th investor meeting.


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## kds4 (Aug 28, 2019)

Fasttr said:


> Did you get the impression he was hinting that you would have to have Trust points in your ownership in order for your enrolled weeks to count towards Ownership Benefit Levels, or did you feel he was implying that only Trust points would count toward the hot new ownership levels he was claiming were coming very soon.



Or is this is a hint that whatever MVC owner 'access' to the collective ILG properties will be limited to 'pure' trust points and not accessible w/enrolled week converted points. We've been hearing the threats that there will be meaningful differences in what pure trust points and enrolled week points owners can get access to for quite a while (without seeing meaningful differentiation). Could the ILG acquisition trigger the long cautioned 'parting of the ways' where the type of owned points actually becomes meaningful - as a vehicle to get people to buy more trust points?


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## 2disneydads (Aug 28, 2019)

kds4 said:


> Or is this is a hint that whatever MVC owner 'access' to the collective ILG properties will be limited to 'pure' trust points and not accessible w/enrolled week converted points. We've been hearing the threats that there will be meaningful differences in what pure trust points and enrolled week points owners can get access to for quite a while (without seeing meaningful differentiation). Could the ILG acquisition trigger the long cautioned 'parting of the ways' where the type of owned points actually becomes meaningful - as a vehicle to get people to buy more trust points?


That would be particularly galling because they have been pushing bundles recently, where you buy a deeded week resale from them, get the week enrolled and then also purchase trust points.  Many of us paid substantial amounts to enroll our weeks.  I don't see MVCI acting so as to create so much ill will among some of its best customers.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


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## dioxide45 (Aug 28, 2019)

logos5 said:


> I just came back from a sales pitch and one of the things I was told was that starting Sept 1 the point requirements for the ownership tiers are changing.
> 
> Select will now start at 6000 and Chairman's club is going away
> Price per point is also going to be jumping quite significantly as they roll in Hyatt and the other acquisitions
> I was shown a memo as proof, anyone else hear about this? It factored into a purchase I made, I'm still in my rescind period and want to make sure I wasn't just fed a story.


I would certainly never make a purchase based on a memo. Unless that memo was somehow included in the contract allowing you to walk if it didn't come to fruition.


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## bazzap (Aug 29, 2019)

kds4 said:


> Or is this is a hint that whatever MVC owner 'access' to the collective ILG properties will be limited to 'pure' trust points and not accessible w/enrolled week converted points. We've been hearing the threats that there will be meaningful differences in what pure trust points and enrolled week points owners can get access to for quite a while (without seeing meaningful differentiation). Could the ILG acquisition trigger the long cautioned 'parting of the ways' where the type of owned points actually becomes meaningful - as a vehicle to get people to buy more trust points?


I doubt they would go down this path, but if they were to it could seriously disincent many enrolled weeks owners from electing their weeks for points, which could significantly reduce the available inventory for trust points owners / collective ILG properties qualifiers to access (especially in Europe and Asia) which I am sure is not what they would want.


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## dougp26364 (Aug 29, 2019)

I look at it this way. If we REALLY wanted access to SVN, we’d walk across the street and BUY SVN. Then it wouldn’t matter what MVC May or may not be planning. Why would a rational person by MVC on a vague promise that they MIGHT have some sort of access to the SVN reports? 

We became and increased our MVC ownership because we like their product. We haven’t increased our Hilton ownership due to lack of locations in the Hilton system and we never bought into SVN for much the same reason. We bought Hilton because, at the time, we liked Vegas and Marriott didn’t have Vegas in their portfolio. We’ve thought about SVN but only because of the resort in Sedona (that’s where we would purchase) but didn’t buy because we don’t want to return every year and, their product doesn’t have enough locations for internal exchanging that we felt the cost was worth it to us.

Sure I’d LOVE to have internal access to the Hyatt in Sedona. I think we’d even likely go to Key West at least once if we have internal access. But I’m not about to spend tens of thousands of dollars on a kiss and a promise........or a threat, from some salesman making promises which amount to their version of the speculation we read on TUG. 

Let’s face it, the sales staffs are guessing about what will happen in the future just as much as we are. They’re looking at what they want to happen from a salesman’s point of view and were looking at it through an owners point of view. Salesmen want a reason to get us to spend more money and we want more benefits for the money we’ve already spent and continue to spend in the form of MF’s.


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## kds4 (Aug 29, 2019)

2disneydads said:


> That would be particularly galling because they have been pushing bundles recently, where you buy a deeded week resale from them, get the week enrolled and then also purchase trust points.  Many of us paid substantial amounts to enroll our weeks.  I don't see MVCI acting so as to create so much ill will among some of its best customers.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk



I'm not saying it would be 'fair', but it would be one way to 'put teeth' into what sales has been pitching for years (if there are/were truly plans to make such a distinction become a reality).


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## kds4 (Aug 29, 2019)

bazzap said:


> I doubt they would go down this path, but if they were to it could seriously disincent many enrolled weeks owners from electing their weeks for points, which could significantly reduce the available inventory for trust points owners / collective ILG properties qualifiers to access (especially in Europe and Asia) which I am sure is not what they would want.



It could be a disincentive for enrolled weeks owners to convert their weeks to points if they are among those that want to go to properties in the ILG portfolio (but I'm not sure how many there are in that sub-group compared to how many they can get to buy points based on this requirement to gain access). MVC has been saying all along that only trust points (not enrolled week elected points) would have access to 'new' inventory, but we haven't really seen a bright line distinction in what owners can reserve. I have both types of points, and I know I can't tell (so far). However, the ILG acquisition (from previous posts) has resulted in the formation of a 'new' points based land trust. If they wanted to draw a distinction, that would be as good a place to start as any IMHO.


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## bazzap (Aug 29, 2019)

kds4 said:


> It could be a disincentive for enrolled weeks owners to convert their weeks to points if they are among those that want to go to properties in the ILG portfolio (but I'm not sure how many there are in that sub-group compared to how many they can get to buy points based on this requirement to gain access). MVC has been saying all along that only trust points (not enrolled week elected points) would have access to 'new' inventory, but we haven't really seen a bright line distinction in what owners can reserve. I have both types of points, and I know I can't tell (so far). However, the ILG acquisition (from previous posts) has resulted in the formation of a 'new' points based land trust. If they wanted to draw a distinction, that would be as good a place to start as any IMHO.


Isn’t it only some sales people in MVC who have been “saying all along that only trust points (not enrolled week elected points) would have access to ‘new’ inventory”?
I have never seen or heard this from MVC corporate or even at any of the sales presentations I have been to.


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## Superchief (Aug 29, 2019)

I find it difficult to believe that MVC would remove existing benefits or levels. Why would any of us trust them in the future if they eliminated something that we earned from our previous MVC investments? I wouldn't be surprised if they offer additional incentives and benefits for a new higher level of membership, but I really don't think current ones would go away or be devalued. If they did this, I would sell most of my MVC portfolio and never do business with the company in the future.


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## JIMinNC (Aug 29, 2019)

dougp26364 said:


> We’ve thought about SVN but only because of the resort in Sedona (that’s where we would purchase) but didn’t buy because we don’t want to return every year and, their product doesn’t have enough locations for internal exchanging that we felt the cost was worth it to us.
> 
> Sure I’d LOVE to have internal access to the Hyatt in Sedona. I think we’d even likely go to Key West at least once if we have internal access. But I’m not about to spend tens of thousands of dollars on a kiss and a promise........or a threat, from some salesman making promises which amount to their version of the speculation we read on TUG.



SVN doesn't have anything in Sedona I don't think. Hyatt does, but it's not part of SVN.


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## kds4 (Aug 29, 2019)

bazzap said:


> Isn’t it only some sales people in MVC who have been “saying all along that only trust points (not enrolled week elected points) would have access to ‘new’ inventory”?
> I have never seen or heard this from MVC corporate or even at any of the sales presentations I have been to.



I'm pretty sure over the last 9 years that I have seen posts from members discussing how sales has been presenting the argument that even pre-2010 enrollable weeks owners needed to buy trust points to "supercharge" what they have and ensure their ability to access new resort inventory. We've certainly been told that many times at many different sales centers over the last several years. I'm not convinced that it couldn't someday become a reality. Even in the governing documents, there is a differentiation between a 'Direct Member' (who owns pure trust points) and an 'Exchange Member' (who owns enrolled weeks). MVC has differentiated ownership types since the roll-out of the DC. However, in practice, both types of memberships have appeared to operate the same w/no obvious differences in inventory access. Because it has been that way, doesn't mean it has to stay that way given the language (unless someone interprets these membership types differently). I see nothing preventing MVC from at some point stating "X inventory will be available to Direct Members only" (meaning accessible only through pure trust points).

They may never do it. My only point was that the 'new' ILG inventory provides a window to do it (if they chose to).


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## kds4 (Aug 29, 2019)

Superchief said:


> I find it difficult to believe that MVC would remove existing benefits or levels. Why would any of us trust them in the future if they eliminated something that we earned from our previous MVC investments? I wouldn't be surprised if they offer additional incentives and benefits for a new higher level of membership, but I really don't think current ones would go away or be devalued. If they did this, I would sell most of my MVC portfolio and never do business with the company in the future.



Removal of which existing benefits or levels are you referring to?


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## bazzap (Aug 29, 2019)

kds4 said:


> I'm pretty sure over the last 9 years that I have seen posts from members discussing how sales has been presenting the argument that even pre-2010 enrollable weeks owners needed to buy trust points to "supercharge" what they have and ensure their ability to access new resort inventory. We've certainly been told that many times at many different sales centers over the last several years. I'm not convinced that it couldn't someday become a reality. Even in the governing documents, there is a differentiation between a 'Direct Member' (who owns pure trust points) and an 'Exchange Member' (who owns enrolled weeks). MVC has differentiated ownership types since the roll-out of the DC. However, in practice, both types of memberships have appeared to operate the same w/no obvious differences in inventory access. Because it has been that way, doesn't mean it has to stay that way given the language (unless someone interprets these membership types differently). I see nothing preventing MVC from at some point stating "X inventory will be available to Direct Members only" (meaning accessible only through pure trust points).
> 
> They may never do it. My only point was that the 'new' ILG inventory provides a window to do it (if they chose to).


Yes indeed, I too have read all those posts.
I am sure many sales people have been presenting this argument.
Who knows, it may even come to fruition?
I only believe what my contracts and MVC corporate have to say though.
So I will disbelieve until one of these confirms otherwise.
We shall see.


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## Superchief (Aug 29, 2019)

kds4 said:


> Removal of which existing benefits or levels are you referring to?


The original post indicated that ...'Chairmans club was going away', .


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## tiel (Aug 29, 2019)

Fasttr said:


> Did you get the impression he was hinting that you would have to have Trust points in your ownership in order for your enrolled weeks to count towards Ownership Benefit Levels, or did you feel he was implying that only Trust points would count toward the hot new ownership levels he was claiming were coming very soon.



Neither.  The impression we got was we need trust points to access the newly acquired inventory...a slightly different version of the old “supercharging” idea. He didn’t really say much about the ownership levels except that they were going to change and we would have different benefits than we have now.


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## micromacguy (Aug 30, 2019)

StevenTing said:


> Bunch of lies.  If it was a true memo, they would have given to us copy.


If you buy on the resale mkt and pay all the Marriott fees, are you enrolled as a points member the same as if you bought through Marriott sales, or are there restrictions I'm not aware of.


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## TheTimeTraveler (Aug 30, 2019)

Assuming you are buying resale points thru a private transaction and pay all the fees?   Yes, you are enrolled as a points member just as if you purchased via Marriott.

Assuming you are buying resale week thru a private transaction?   No, only Marriott can "energize" a resale week into points.

IMHO the best bang for the buck are resale weeks, but always buy where you really like to go......




.


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## micromacguy (Aug 30, 2019)

TheTimeTraveler said:


> Assuming you are buying resale points thru a private transaction and pay all the fees?   Yes, you are enrolled as a points member just as if you purchased via Marriott.
> 
> Assuming you are buying resale week thru a private transaction?   No, only Marriott can "energize" a resale week into points.
> 
> ...


Sorry, I wasn't clear.  I am looking at buying Destination Points and want to be sure that are are no restrictions attached vs. buying though Marriott Sales.  Assuming I pay all Marriott fees, is the use of the Destination Points the same as if I purchased them through Marriott Sales.

You are absolutely correct, if you buy a resale titled week (i.e buying a 1BR OV at Marriott Ko Olina), you will not be able to trade the unit for Destination points or for Marriott points.  If anyone buys a deeded week via resale, I agree that it needs to be somewhere you plan to use.


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## Fasttr (Aug 30, 2019)

micromacguy said:


> Sorry, I wasn't clear.  I am looking at buying Destination Points and want to be sure that are are no restrictions attached vs. buying though Marriott Sales.  Assuming I pay all Marriott fees, is the use of the Destination Points the same as if I purchased them through Marriott Sales.


Currently, they are treated the same.  That said, according to the docs, they do have the ability to treat them somewhat differently.  Anybody's guess if they ever will.  This link to an older post lays it out for you to ponder.....  (Note that at that time, the junk fees were $2/point, now they are $3/point, so wanted to make sure I clarified that).  

https://tugbbs.com/forums/index.php?threads/marriott-resale-dc-point-benefits.270814/#post-2111734


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## Steve Fatula (Aug 30, 2019)

micromacguy said:


> Sorry, I wasn't clear.  I am looking at buying Destination Points and want to be sure that are are no restrictions attached vs. buying though Marriott Sales.  Assuming I pay all Marriott fees, is the use of the Destination Points the same as if I purchased them through Marriott Sales.



They function the same, I have mostly resale points.


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## kds4 (Aug 30, 2019)

bazzap said:


> Yes indeed, I too have read all those posts.
> I am sure many sales people have been presenting this argument.
> Who knows, it may even come to fruition?
> I only believe what my contracts and MVC corporate have to say though.
> ...



As a U.S. based owner, I don't recall anything in my contracts that says they cannot do what is being discussed (or guarantees me that they won't). Perhaps someone more familiar with the various owner documents can provide more insight about what is prohibited or guaranteed for Direct Members and Exchange Members of the Destination Club.


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## kds4 (Aug 30, 2019)

Superchief said:


> The original post indicated that ...'Chairmans club was going away', .



Got it. I hadn't heard Chairman's Club (as an ownership level) was going away in any of my presentations with MVC, but I had been told a new ownership level above Chairman's (and/or an increase in the number of points required) is coming. Worst case scenario, I could see them changing the name of Chairman's Club but don't see how it could ever be done away with. People who own that many points have to be called 'something'.


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## kds4 (Aug 30, 2019)

micromacguy said:


> If you buy on the resale mkt and pay all the Marriott fees, are you enrolled as a points member the same as if you bought through Marriott sales, or are there restrictions I'm not aware of.



The owner documents reference some restrictions that can be imposed on resale points (even if you paid all of the Marriott fees), but so far they have not appeared to invoke them. So, at present, resale points that have had all fees paid have been functioning no differently than points purchased directly from MVC. However, per the documents, there are some usage restrictions that can be imposed on resale points (if/when MVC chooses to).


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## kds4 (Aug 30, 2019)

Fasttr said:


> Currently, they are treated the same.  That said, according to the docs, they do have the ability to treat them somewhat differently.  Anybody's guess if they ever will.  This link to an older post lays it out for you to ponder.....  (Note that at that time, the junk fees were $2/point, now they are $3/point, so wanted to make sure I clarified that).
> 
> https://tugbbs.com/forums/index.php?threads/marriott-resale-dc-point-benefits.270814/#post-2111734



I seem to recall that the primary fee for resale points was allocated as $500 per Beneficial Interest (250 points) purchased with a guaranteed minimum fee of $3,000 (which would equate to having to purchase at least 6 BIs - or 1,500 points). Does anyone know if MVC has allowed anyone to pay the $3,000 to enroll less than 1,500 points (or are they sticking to the 1,500 point minimum purchase - discussed somewhere in the owner documentation)?


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## dioxide45 (Aug 31, 2019)

kds4 said:


> I seem to recall that the primary fee for resale points was allocated as $500 per Beneficial Interest (250 points) purchased with a guaranteed minimum fee of $3,000 (which would equate to having to purchase at least 6 BIs - or 1,500 points). Does anyone know if MVC has allowed anyone to pay the $3,000 to enroll less than 1,500 points (or are they sticking to the 1,500 point minimum purchase - discussed somewhere in the owner documentation)?


The fee is $750 per BI or $3 per point. You can purchase as few points as you want, the documentation indicates that you won't have full usage of those points through the exchange company unless you pay the fees. Unless you own a base interest (2 BIs for legacy week owners or 6 BIs for first time buyers), then you can only reserve 60 days out. However, I would expect if reserving pure trust points, you would have unfettered reservation rights. The problem is that Marriott usually drops most of the trust inventory in to the exchange company pretty far out.


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## kds4 (Aug 31, 2019)

dioxide45 said:


> The fee is $750 per BI or $3 per point. You can purchase as few points as you want, the documentation indicates that you won't have full usage of those points through the exchange company unless you pay the fees. Unless you own a base interest (2 BIs for legacy week owners or 6 BIs for first time buyers), then you can only reserve 60 days out. However, I would expect if reserving pure trust points, you would have unfettered reservation rights. The problem is that Marriott usually drops most of the trust inventory in to the exchange company pretty far out.



Does this mean that MVC has dropped the $3,000 minimum fee for 'enrollment' of any resale points?


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## Fasttr (Aug 31, 2019)

kds4 said:


> Does this mean that MVC has dropped the $3,000 minimum fee for 'enrollment' of any resale points?


The minimum still exists as far as I know.


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## dioxide45 (Aug 31, 2019)

Fasttr said:


> The minimum still exists as far as I know.


Yea, minimum still there. I should have also included that in my post.


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## csalter2 (Aug 31, 2019)

According to Marriott, a point is a point. So if you’re an enrolled owner that can elect points or a Destination points owner, they BOTH have equal access to all resorts.  The nonsense that the sales people use to scare you into thinking that you won’t have access to future resorts because you don’t have expensive DC points is a fallacy and sales tactic.  I have been down this road.  

Pus, those people who have bought the points/weeks hybrid would have a pretty good leg to stand on in court if that was suddenly true. Nevertheless, enrolled points can do all that DC points do and will do so in the future.


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## dioxide45 (Aug 31, 2019)

csalter2 said:


> According to Marriott, a point is a point. So if you’re an enrolled owner that can elect points or a Destination points owner, they BOTH have equal access to all resorts.  The nonsense that the sales people use to scare you into thinking that you won’t have access to future resorts because you don’t have expensive DC points is a fallacy and sales tactic.  I have been down this road.
> 
> Pus, those people who have bought the points/weeks hybrid would have a pretty good leg to stand on in court if that was suddenly true. Nevertheless, enrolled points can do all that DC points do and will do so in the future.


True be fair, a point certainly isn't a point. At least not in a technical/legal sense. In a practical sense, they are all about the same. THough there have been some reported instances where legacy points couldn't get a reservation where trust points could. Though I agree, it is a sales tactic to try to sell more points.


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## csalter2 (Aug 31, 2019)

dioxide45 said:


> True be fair, a point certainly isn't a point. At least not in a technical/legal sense. In a practical sense, they are all about the same. THough there have been some reported instances where legacy points couldn't get a reservation where trust points could. Though I agree, it is a sales tactic to try to sell more points.



Yes, I remember those *rare *instances and they were early in the program. Marriott did initially try to not make a point a point. However, they have abandoned that nonsense since and now a point is truly a point.  The people who make the reservations do not even make any distinction between trust points and legacy points.  If there was a situation where a reservation could not be made with enrolled points, I am sure that it’s a glitch and could just be cleared up by calling owner services and legacy points could just as easily be used.


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## kds4 (Aug 31, 2019)

csalter2 said:


> Yes, I remember those *rare *instances and they were early in the program. Marriott did initially try to not make a point a point. However, they have abandoned that nonsense since and now a point is truly a point.  The people who make the reservations do not even make any distinction between trust points and legacy points.  If there was a situation where a reservation could not be made with enrolled points, I am sure that it’s a glitch and could just be cleared up by calling owner services and legacy points could just as easily be used.



I haven't seen anything in writing about restricting the ability to reserve MVC properties based on the type of points you own. However, there is language that would allow MVC to restrict resale points (even if all of their 'fees' have been paid) from accessing usage options other than reserving an MVC property (such as certain Explorer Collection options). However, I don't believe there are nearly as many people that care about that as would care about being able to actually book MVC inventory. I agree, that blocking resale points from being able to book MVC inventory is probably the last thing they would try and restrict (if they legitimately could).


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## StevenTing (Sep 1, 2019)

It is now Sept 1st.  I don’t believe tier levels have changed.  I suggest that OP contact sales person and ask them about their previous comment.


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## csalter2 (Sep 1, 2019)

StevenTing said:


> It is now Sept 1st.  I don’t believe tier levels have changed.  I suggest that OP contact sales person and ask them about their previous comment.



Steve, at least give it until Tuesday. Geesh! It’s a holiday weekend!


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## StevenTing (Sep 1, 2019)

Don’t need to provide them an extra day to come up with an excuse.  I’m impatient like that.  I need instant gratification.


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## dougp26364 (Sep 3, 2019)

It’s Tuesday and still no changes to the benefit levels. Did that memo have a year along with the month on it? 

Memos with a MVC header mean nothing. I thinking anyone I. The sales office can type one up. I’ve seen several memos and articles over the years but MVC had generally not stooped to the level. It’s to bad they appear to have sunk that low now.


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## JIMinNC (Sep 3, 2019)

dougp26364 said:


> It’s Tuesday and still no changes to the benefit levels. Did that memo have a year along with the month on it?
> 
> Memos with a MVC header mean nothing. I thinking anyone I. The sales office can type one up. I’ve seen several memos and articles over the years but MVC had generally not stooped to the level. It’s to bad they appear to have sunk that low now.



I’m not saying I believe the rumor is true, but just because it is Sept 3 doesn’t necessarily mean anything. As I recall, when they changed to the current tiers it was quite a while (weeks, months?) before official communications to owners from corporate.  At first the details of the tiers came from charts at owner updates. So, until someone attends a Sept update and reports back, we can’t be sure. 

I may be wrong in my recollection, but that’s how I remember it.


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## dougp26364 (Sep 3, 2019)

I’m sure it will change........ eventually. It just won’t be off of some memo a salesman shows a prospect trying to get them to buy additional points.


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## luv2trvl2 (Sep 8, 2019)

We just came from a presentation at Canyon Villas in Phoenix 9/7. Rep also said that levels are changing. He noted current levels for Select at 4000 and Executive at 7000 and Chairman at 10000 minimums. Said that levels are expected to increase by 1500 points when they fold in ILG Starwood and Hyatt resorts by year end. They told us rates were unconfirmed but expected to rise from 14.54 current point price to anticipated $18+  After we declined and accepted our $250 reward, the rep told us that the changeover date was uncertain and may not occur until 1st or 2nd Qtr of 2020 even though they are told year end for the level change. They did offer us a special preview only rate of $12.50/pt plus a special 35 anniversary year incentive of either 100k hotel points or 2000 MVC pts. Then they offered to double it to 200k or 4000 pts.  O mention of Chairman level going away. That’s the offer we declined. 

Curious what the cost of points is on the resale market. If we buy points there, does it roll into our current offering without any issues?  We currently have 1 Enrolled week at DSV1 worth 2375 points and 2000 Trust points which has us at the Select level. So with 4375 points we would need 2625 points to get to the current Executive level. Trying to see if Executive level is worth it.


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## DEScottzz (Sep 8, 2019)

luv2trvl2 said:


> Curious what the cost of points is on the resale market. If we buy points there, does it roll into our current offering without any issues?  We currently have 1 Enrolled week at DSV1 worth 2375 points and 2000 Trust points which has us at the Select level. So with 4375 points we would need 2625 points to get to the current Executive level. Trying to see if Executive level is worth it.



We bought 1500 resale points to get to Presidential level. We paid $6.14 per point including all MVC junk fees. We thought it would be worth it to get 30% discounts 60 days out.

If we ever go to another sales presentation, my wife also wants to be able to tell the salesperson the we are already Presidential tier, and have absolutely no interest in achieving whatever the next level may be. Maybe it will make the sales presentations less painful.

Edit: BTW, we had a really unpleasant presentation at Canyon Villas. Very hard sell, and I wasn't feeling well. I had to get pretty gruff in order to escape.


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## bazzap (Sep 8, 2019)

luv2trvl2 said:


> We just came from a presentation at Canyon Villas in Phoenix 9/7. Rep also said that levels are changing. He noted current levels for Select at 4000 and Executive at 7000 and Chairman at 10000 minimums. Said that levels are expected to increase by 1500 points when they fold in ILG Starwood and Hyatt resorts by year end. They told us rates were unconfirmed but expected to rise from 14.54 current point price to anticipated $18+  After we declined and accepted our $250 reward, the rep told us that the changeover date was uncertain and may not occur until 1st or 2nd Qtr of 2020 even though they are told year end for the level change. They did offer us a special preview only rate of $12.50/pt plus a special 35 anniversary year incentive of either 100k hotel points or 2000 MVC pts. Then they offered to double it to 200k or 4000 pts.  O mention of Chairman level going away. That’s the offer we declined.
> 
> Curious what the cost of points is on the resale market. If we buy points there, does it roll into our current offering without any issues?  We currently have 1 Enrolled week at DSV1 worth 2375 points and 2000 Trust points which has us at the Select level. So with 4375 points we would need 2625 points to get to the current Executive level. Trying to see if Executive level is worth it.


“Chairman at 10000 minimum”? It is currently 15000+.


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## Steve Fatula (Sep 8, 2019)

luv2trvl2 said:


> If we buy points there, does it roll into our current offering without any issues?



Generally, yes, as long as the resale points use year matches the use year of the points you have, you give them the correct names, and, correct account number.


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## mbstn6254 (Sep 8, 2019)

Pocky87 said:


> They recently got many people to try off with 4,000 for Select level... I'm not sure how true the memo is... and usually I will get them to put those terms they mentioned in writing...


Last year at a presentation in Orlando I was convinced that moving to the select level would open up all kinds of possibilities. It sounded reasonable, but every single representation by the sales rep turned out to be false. The reality is the select level did nothing except get me more points. I was also told that in order to get me to the select level, they would secretly sell me 1,500 points something I was told they don't do anymore. I was being done a favor by a guy that told me he was not a salesperson but a management person in charge of customer service. Am I an idiot or what?


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## tahoe (Sep 9, 2019)

mbstn6254 said:


> Last year at a presentation in Orlando I was convinced that moving to the select level would open up all kinds of possibilities. It sounded reasonable, but every single representation by the sales rep turned out to be false. The reality is the select level did nothing except get me more points. I was also told that in order to get me to the select level, they would secretly sell me 1,500 points something I was told they don't do anymore. I was being done a favor by a guy that told me he was not a salesperson but a management person in charge of customer service. Am I an idiot or what?



Here's the MVC benefits chart:
https://www.marriottvacationclub.co...rshipLevelsResources/benefits_at_a_glance.pdf

Oddly, the main benefit of Select to me has nothing to do with MVC.  It's the Bonvoy Platinum Elite offered with Select.
https://www.marriott.com/loyalty/member-benefits.mi
The free breakfasts have been a nice perk, though I wish it could be expanded to include kids.


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## Pocky87 (Sep 9, 2019)

So I asked the AP sales side if there is any upcoming big change of level, which they mentioned no new changes that they know of.

Well nothing is confirmed as usual, but I believed that usually any changes will be an enhancement for existing customers and they will just lift the level higher for newcomers, No?


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## jmhpsu93 (Sep 9, 2019)

mbstn6254 said:


> Last year at a presentation in Orlando I was convinced that moving to the select level would open up all kinds of possibilities. It sounded reasonable, but every single representation by the sales rep turned out to be false. The reality is the select level did nothing except get me more points. I was also told that in order to get me to the select level, they would secretly sell me 1,500 points something I was told they don't do anymore. I was being done a favor by a guy that told me he was not a salesperson but a management person in charge of customer service. Am I an idiot or what?



We must have had the same rep back in December - my BS meter went haywire with all of the buzzwords he used like "VIP status" which doesn't exist and showed us a bunch of thank you emails from his "clients" that he did all kinds of over and above things for.


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## NboroGirl (Sep 9, 2019)

mbstn6254 said:


> Last year at a presentation in Orlando I was convinced that moving to the select level would open up all kinds of possibilities. It sounded reasonable, but every single representation by the sales rep turned out to be false. The reality is the select level did nothing except get me more points. I was also told that in order to get me to the select level, they would secretly sell me 1,500 points something I was told they don't do anymore. I was being done a favor by a guy that told me he was not a salesperson but a management person in charge of customer service. Am I an idiot or what?





jmhpsu93 said:


> We must have had the same rep back in December - my BS meter went haywire with all of the buzzwords he used like "VIP status" which doesn't exist and showed us a bunch of thank you emails from his "clients" that he did all kinds of over and above things for.



It sounds like the guy I had in Orlando, only it was years ago before points.  The whole bit about being some sort of manager who had special powers that would enable him to do us a favor, etc. etc. etc.  We also got to see a list of "thank yous" from past clients, and he kept bugging me after we got home to write a nice letter about him because he would get $500 (don't remember the exact amount) whenever he got a positive letter from a client. He asked several times but I finally told him "No - You haven't DONE anything for us!"  To this day I remember his name and I had to request that his name be removed from our account.

Was his first name Michael, by any chance?


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## mbstn6254 (Sep 9, 2019)

jmhpsu93 said:


> We must have had the same rep back in December - my BS meter went haywire with all of the buzzwords he used like "VIP status" which doesn't exist and showed us a bunch of thank you emails from his "clients" that he did all kinds of over and above things for.


Oh My God...the guy we worked with also went on and on about VIP status and the terrific service I would get because MVC reservations would know I was VIP when I called. He spent so much of the time talking about it and how it would help me get into resorts that others would have a problem with. He also said  don't call for 30 days because it takes that long to get the VIP status into the system. All of it 100% BS.

I wish I could remember his name because he also told me to call him personally if I have any problems as he was not a salesperson but a "manager" in charge of customer service. I tried to call him a few times early on as we were being closed out of several of the resorts we wanted when we bought the extra points. Resorts, by the way, he told us he can get us into. Specifically, he said he could get us into the Ritz Carlton in Aspen in June. What do you think the result was?

I feel like such a schmuck!

These presentations represent the worst of the worst. Marriott does not own the vacation clubs anymore, so there is no one to complain to. I think, though, if I did complain to MVC about the outrageously false presentation this guy did....they would probably give him a bonus!


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## mbstn6254 (Sep 9, 2019)

NboroGirl said:


> It sounds like the guy I had in Orlando, only it was years ago before points.  The whole bit about being some sort of manager who had special powers that would enable him to do us a favor, etc. etc. etc.  We also got to see a list of "thank yous" from past clients, and he kept bugging me after we got home to write a nice letter about him because he would get $500 (don't remember the exact amount) whenever he got a positive letter from a client. He asked several times but I finally told him "No - You haven't DONE anything for us!"  To this day I remember his name and I had to request that his name be removed from our account.
> 
> Was his first name Michael, by any chance?[/


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## bazzap (Sep 9, 2019)

mbstn6254 said:


> Oh My God...the guy we worked with also went on and on about VIP status and the terrific service I would get because MVC reservations would know I was VIP when I called. He spent so much of the time talking about it and how it would help me get into resorts that others would have a problem with. He also said  don't call for 30 days because it takes that long to get the VIP status into the system. All of it 100% BS.
> 
> I wish I could remember his name because he also told me to call him personally if I have any problems as he was not a salesperson but a "manager" in charge of customer service. I tried to call him a few times early on as we were being closed out of several of the resorts we wanted when we bought the extra points. resorts, by the way, he told us he can get us into. Specifically the Ritz Carlton in Aspen in June. What do you think the result was?
> 
> ...


Whilst Marriott International do not own the Marriott Vacation Clubs any more, they do still license the Marriott brand name for use by the timeshare business, so both companies should be concerned about anything which negatively impacts the brand image.


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## NboroGirl (Sep 9, 2019)

mbstn6254 said:


> Oh My God...the guy we worked with also went on and on about VIP status and the terrific service I would get because MVC reservations would know I was VIP when I called. He spent so much of the time talking about it and how it would help me get into resorts that others would have a problem with. He also said  don't call for 30 days because it takes that long to get the VIP status into the system. All of it 100% BS.
> 
> I wish I could remember his name because he also told me to call him personally if I have any problems as he was not a salesperson but a "manager" in charge of customer service. I tried to call him a few times early on as we were being closed out of several of the resorts we wanted when we bought the extra points. Resorts, by the way, he told us he can get us into. Specifically, he said he could get us into the Ritz Carlton in Aspen in June. What do you think the result was?
> 
> I feel like such a schmuck!



I'm guessing it was the same guy and he must still be there.  He also promised us that he could personally get us into a resort we wanted during a school vacation week (of course it never happened).  I kept calling him to ask when he was going to (magically) get us the desired trade and he would just harp about me having not sent a glowing letter yet. Finally that's when I told him he hadn't done anything for us yet.  Yes, I too, feel like a schmuck.  The guy's name was Michael and his last name started with A.


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## mbstn6254 (Sep 9, 2019)

NboroGirl said:


> I'm guessing it was the same guy and he must still be there.  He also promised us that he could personally get us into a resort we wanted during a school vacation week (of course it never happened).  I kept calling him to ask when he was going to (magically) get us the desired trade and he would just harp about me having not sent a glowing letter yet. Finally that's when I told him he hadn't done anything for us yet.  Yes, I too, feel like a schmuck.  The guy's name was Michael and his last name started with A.


My guys name was Ron.....I think


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## mbstn6254 (Sep 9, 2019)

NboroGirl said:


> I'm guessing it was the same guy and he must still be there.  He also promised us that he could personally get us into a resort we wanted during a school vacation week (of course it never happened).  I kept calling him to ask when he was going to (magically) get us the desired trade and he would just harp about me having not sent a glowing letter yet. Finally that's when I told him he hadn't done anything for us yet.  Yes, I too, feel like a schmuck.  The guy's name was Michael and his last name started with A.


In my entire business life I have never been lied to like I was at that presentation. It will never happen again.


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## dgf15215 (Sep 13, 2019)

StevenTing said:


> Don’t need to provide them an extra day to come up with an excuse.  I’m impatient like that.  I need instant gratification.



That's funny! Sorry I missed it earlier.

I will say that we made Chairman's Club some years back with 13,000 points on the nose. It was worked out excellently for us as we've traveled and received really terrific treatment, upgrades and etc. A few years back when they were adjusting point values one of our early purchases (Ocean Point) was decreased by 100 points leaving us with 12,900. True to their word, they have continued to classify us as CC.

It is a sorry state of affairs when so much BS is passed out by sales and people have to come here to get a more realistic assessment of their options. I can't believe that even if you confront the sales rep who made up this stuff that they haven't insulated themselves well enough to be able to ascribe it to a misunderstanding.


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## frank808 (Sep 13, 2019)

dgf15215 said:


> That's funny! Sorry I missed it earlier.
> 
> I will say that we made Chairman's Club some years back with 13,000 points on the nose. It was worked out excellently for us as we've traveled and received really terrific treatment, upgrades and etc.



Just want to be clear that you got upgrades at vacation club properties?  Or did you get upgrades at arriott hotels because of the platinum, now titanium status?  

What are the other benefits of chairmanships club that are not listed in the printout?  I am really curious because we just qualified for chairmans and got almost nothing at select. 

We have have been platinum premiere when it was an unpublished level.  Didn't get me anything more than when we were platinum.  The best part of being plat premiere was getting United Airline gold status.  Besides that, nothing different from being platinum.  Now Titanium has had some good rewards. We have gotten 4 free 40k nights to use so far.  

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


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## SueDonJ (Sep 14, 2019)

dgf15215 said:


> That's funny! Sorry I missed it earlier.
> 
> I will say that we made Chairman's Club some years back with 13,000 points on the nose. It was worked out excellently for us as we've traveled and received really terrific treatment, upgrades and etc. *A few years back when they were adjusting point values one of our early purchases (Ocean Point) was decreased by 100 *points leaving us with 12,900. True to their word, they have continued to classify us as CC.
> 
> It is a sorry state of affairs when so much BS is passed out by sales and people have to come here to get a more realistic assessment of their options. I can't believe that even if you confront the sales rep who made up this stuff that they haven't insulated themselves well enough to be able to ascribe it to a misunderstanding.



About what's bolded - do you mean that the allotment for your enrolled Ocean Pointe week was changed sometime after the amount designated at the DC rollout? I don't think I remember them ever changing allotments (other than a few that had to be corrected when they were flat-out wrong at the rollout, like the SurfWatch 2BR's that were mistakenly given the amount designated for 3BR's. The status tiers for accounts affected by those IT corrections were adjusted at that time, not grandfathered.)

{ETA} In 2015 the status tiers were adjusted so that the 13,000 threshold for Chairman's Club was raised to 15,000, but they grandfathered existing accounts which had met the initial threshold. (See the _DC Membership Status Tiers_ section in the TUG DC Points FAQ.) This could explain the grandfathering in your account, but doesn't explain a subsequent change in an enrolled Week's allotment that would have reduced your total allotment to 12,900.


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## dougp26364 (Sep 14, 2019)

Our Ocean Pointe value as an enrolled week hasn't changed since inception.


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## bazzap (Sep 14, 2019)

dougp26364 said:


> Our Ocean Pointe value as an enrolled week hasn't changed since inception.


There has certainly never been any change in the points value assigned to any of the weeks in the 5x MVC resorts we own.
(much as I wish that our Caribbean resort weeks should have been reassigned upwards)


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## Quilter (Sep 14, 2019)

frank808 said:


> The best part of being plat premiere was getting United Airline gold status.
> Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk



Gold or silver?  We were platinum maybe platinum premier and then moved to titanium.  I don’t think we ever went above silver on United.


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## frank808 (Sep 14, 2019)

Quilter said:


> Gold or silver?  We were platinum maybe platinum premier and then moved to titanium.  I don’t think we ever went above silver on United.


Plat premiere about 2 years ago got gold status.  It was only for a couple years then when plat premiere became a published level it got changed to silver status the next year.  

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


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## dgf15215 (Sep 14, 2019)

SueDonJ said:


> About what's bolded - do you mean that the allotment for your enrolled Ocean Pointe week was changed sometime after the amount designated at the DC rollout? I don't think I remember them ever changing allotments (other than a few that had to be corrected when they were flat-out wrong at the rollout, like the SurfWatch 2BR's that were mistakenly given the amount designated for 3BR's. The status tiers for accounts affected by those IT corrections were adjusted at that time, not grandfathered.)
> 
> {ETA} In 2015 the status tiers were adjusted so that the 13,000 threshold for Chairman's Club was raised to 15,000, but they grandfathered existing accounts which had met the initial threshold. (See the _DC Membership Status Tiers_ section in the TUG DC Points FAQ.) This could explain the grandfathering in your account, but doesn't explain a subsequent change in an enrolled Week's allotment that would have reduced your total allotment to 12,900.




Yes, the particular week that we own decreased in point value by 100 points. My understanding is that the total number of points assigned to the property is fixed but that within that total allotment, there exists the management option of redistributing the points within the property. So some weeks/units went up, some went down. This particular week is our first purchase done so long ago I couldn't even guess but there were no points at that time so it's not like we purchased it at a certain point value, the points were assigned afterward. In the interim, we had purchased additional properties and then points in order to get to CC and as long we remain there we're fine with it.


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## SueDonJ (Sep 14, 2019)

dgf15215 said:


> Yes, the particular week that we own decreased in point value by 100 points. My understanding is that the total number of points assigned to the property is fixed but that within that total allotment, there exists the management option of redistributing the points within the property. So some weeks/units went up, some went down. ...


What you're describing sounds like what happens with the Points Charts that stipulate how many DC Points are required for a desired stay. Those charts are reviewed annually and adjustments are made to offset floating holidays within each resort's individual chart.

As far as we know, similar adjustments haven't ever happened with the amount of DC Points that are allotted to enrolled Weeks. Seriously, I don't remember EVER hearing about such a thing. If it did happen it would be shocking! That's why I'm keeping at this, because you're the first to report something happening that would have made MANY, MANY people sit up and take notice.

Can you tell us what the Week is? You've said Ocean Pointe but the season? View? Unit size? If we know that maybe we can figure out the confusion?



dgf15215 said:


> This particular week is our first purchase done so long ago I couldn't even guess but there were no points at that time so it's not like we purchased it at a certain point value, the points were assigned afterward. In the interim, we had purchased additional properties and then points in order to get to CC and as long we remain there we're fine with it.



The thing that's so difficult to let go, again, is that the DC Points allotments of enrolled Weeks have only ever been assigned once. The values that were in place at the rollout are, as far as we know, the same values still in place today. They're not subject to annual review or adjustments or re-assignations or any kind of change, so it's honestly shocking to hear you talk about it so nonchalantly.


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## dgf15215 (Sep 14, 2019)

SueDonJ said:


> Can you tell us what the Week is? You've said Ocean Pointe but the season? View? Unit size? If we know that maybe we can figure out the confusion?



Well, I'd say you're a lot more excited by it than we ever were. After all, what we purchased way back when was a week's usage which we still have and choose to exchange for the points value to use as we please on a yearly basis. So we have exactly what we paid for and the option to convert it to points came many years after the purchase. I would suggest that your contention that the DC Points allotments of enrolled weeks have only been assigned once is incorrect; that I know from experience. I don't do the day-to-day work on our bookings, that my wife does. I did just go on the website and found this:  Palm Beach Shores, Florida | _Season:_ Silver | _Floorplan:_ 2BR + 2BA | _View:_ Ocean Side View. From what it says if we want to trade the week in for Vacation Club Points in 2021 it's worth 3,050 points. I think originally it had been valued at 3,150 points. Somewhere in the building a week was made 100 points more valuable or maybe those 100 points were spread across multiple units, I would have no idea. At one point we ascertained that we got a better value for our investment by using those points elsewhere. I have no case to make in protesting the realignment as I didn't suffer anything I was entitled to - had it impacted CC I would feel very much differently.

In any case, thank you for your interest in this matter. You've always been a well-spoken moderator around here <g>. I appreciate your effort.


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## Luvtoride (Sep 15, 2019)

jmhpsu93 said:


> We must have had the same rep back in December - my BS meter went haywire with all of the buzzwords he used like "VIP status" which doesn't exist and showed us a bunch of thank you emails from his "clients" that he did all kinds of over and above things for.


That is BS of promising clients to do things over and above after the sale.  You would be lucky to even be able to contact them despite getting their "persoanl cell phone number".  Only one sales rep that we have ever dealt with have we stayed in touch with and been able to occasionally get a Marriott Friends and Family form for reduced hotel rates from him.  Hate to be so negative, but we have all been there!


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## dansimms (Sep 15, 2019)

I agree.  The after the sale line has always been BS with us. The line about not being able to generate enough hotel points with your current portfolio is another sign that you should decline doing any business with the Rep you are talking to. They know you have enough and do not have your interests at heart. Forget about any follow up on promises if you didn’t buy.  They need to move on to the next line of prospects and you are a dead lead to them .


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## SeaDoc (Sep 15, 2019)

mbstn6254 said:


> My guys name was Ron.....I think



Rod is more likely...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Dean (Sep 16, 2019)

Early on they had some of the units at Surfwatch listed incorrectly and some completed enrollment at the wrong levels.  I never heard whether they honored the incorrect points amount that were listed, does anyone know for sure what happened there?


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## SueDonJ (Sep 16, 2019)

Dean said:


> Early on they had some of the units at Surfwatch listed incorrectly and some completed enrollment at the wrong levels.  I never heard whether they honored the incorrect points amount that were listed, does anyone know for sure what happened there?



Those were 2BR Weeks which in the IT system were incorrectly allotted the amount for 3BR's. The corrections to both the DC allotments and resulting status tiers were made within a week or so of them learning of it. As an owner of 3BR weeks at SW, believe me I would have fought for additional DC Points in my allotments if they hadn't made the corrections.


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## Dean (Sep 16, 2019)

SueDonJ said:


> Those were 2BR Weeks which in the IT system were incorrectly allotted the amount for 3BR's. The corrections to both the DC allotments and resulting status tiers were made within a week or so of them learning of it. As an owner of 3BR weeks at SW, believe me I would have fought for additional DC Points in my allotments if they hadn't made the corrections.


So they did not honor the points for those that enrolled with the higher amount listed?


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## SueDonJ (Sep 16, 2019)

Dean said:


> So they did not honor the points for those that enrolled with the higher amount listed?



No, they didn't allow the incorrect allotments of those Weeks to stand in owners' accounts. I went looking through the "they have done it!" monster thread to find the SW 2BR/3BR issue. It turns out that your SW 2BR Week was affected, and you and several others posted in that thread that your allotments were reduced when the IT correction was made. There was one TUGger who went through and deleted all his/her posts about enrolling based on the incorrect/higher allotment, because s/he didn't like that some of us were questioning why the error should stand.

So now I'm confused, can't figure out if you don't remember your week being affected? Or maybe you're asking as someone who didn't enroll prior to the correction, was the same correction made in the accounts of those who did? I also might be a little bit paranoid, if you're intimating that Marriott didn't adjust downward the incorrect allotments but swore all of you to an NDA that required you to post on TUG that they had?


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## SueDonJ (Sep 16, 2019)

dgf15215 said:


> Well, I'd say you're a lot more excited by it than we ever were. After all, what we purchased way back when was a week's usage which we still have and choose to exchange for the points value to use as we please on a yearly basis. So we have exactly what we paid for and the option to convert it to points came many years after the purchase. I would suggest that your contention that the DC Points allotments of enrolled weeks have only been assigned once is incorrect; that I know from experience. I don't do the day-to-day work on our bookings, that my wife does. *I did just go on the website and found this:  Palm Beach Shores, Florida | Season: Silver | Floorplan: 2BR + 2BA | View: Ocean Side View.* From what it says if we want to trade the week in for Vacation Club Points in 2021 it's worth 3,050 points. I think originally it had been valued at 3,150 points. Somewhere in the building a week was made 100 points more valuable or maybe those 100 points were spread across multiple units, I would have no idea. At one point we ascertained that we got a better value for our investment by using those points elsewhere. I have no case to make in protesting the realignment as I didn't suffer anything I was entitled to - had it impacted CC I would feel very much differently.
> 
> In any case, thank you for your interest in this matter. You've always been a well-spoken moderator around here <g>. I appreciate your effort.



No, thank YOU for putting up with my questions about this. 

When the DC was first introduced one of the criticisms of it as it relates to enrolled Weeks was, "but they can change the Weeks allotments of DC Points anytime! Do you really trust Marriott to NOT devalue DC allotments, when we've seen them devalue everything else?!" It was a valid concern and something that many of us have been watching for since the DC inception. Until now there hasn't ever been anyone on TUG saying that it happened to their Weeks (and honestly, now that you're saying it did, I'm surprised that more people haven't jumped in here.) That's why I'm trying to pinpoint the details of your experience.

I'm not questioning whether you should or shouldn't be happy with whatever adjustments are in your account, but I do wonder if there isn't some confusion about how the grandfathering of Chairman's Club status in your account happened. It's practically a guarantee that 99.9% of DC-enrolled members who participate on TUG would have immediately posted about seeing an adjustment, especially a downward adjustment, in the DC Points allotment of enrolled Weeks. This isn't to say that you should have posted in order to satisfy our curiosity, only to say that it's surprising to hear it may have happened years ago without anyone on TUG being aware of it. Because as you say, an adjustment in one value would impact the value of others.

For the sake of discussion, the spreadsheet that @StevenTing maintains shows the value of your Week as 3,050. I'd be interested to know if there's a historical record that reflects a 3,150 value at the DC inception?


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## csalter2 (Sep 16, 2019)

dgf15215 said:


> Yes, the particular week that we own decreased in point value by 100 points. My understanding is that the total number of points assigned to the property is fixed but that within that total allotment, there exists the management option of redistributing the points within the property. So some weeks/units went up, some went down. This particular week is our first purchase done so long ago I couldn't even guess but there were no points at that time so it's not like we purchased it at a certain point value, the points were assigned afterward. In the interim, we had purchased additional properties and then points in order to get to CC and as long we remain there we're fine with it.



I don't know of any change in the number of DC point allotments that can be elected by owners at Ocean Pointe.  I only know of the adjustment of points needed to make reservations being altered around major holidays.  You may be getting the two confused.


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## Superchief (Sep 16, 2019)

SueDonJ said:


> No, thank YOU for putting up with my questions about this.
> 
> For the sake of discussion, the spreadsheet that @StevenTing maintains shows the value of your Week as 3,050. I'd be interested to know if there's a historical record that reflects a 3,150 value at the DC inception?


I have owned a Silver 2BR Oceanside and enrolled it at the inception of the program. I went back through my yearly timeshare spreadsheets and the point allocation has always been 3050 since 2011. I think that was the first year I had maintenance fees after the DC program introduction.


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## dioxide45 (Sep 16, 2019)

SueDonJ said:


> When the DC was first introduced one of the criticisms of it as it relates to enrolled Weeks was, "but they can change the Weeks allotments of DC Points anytime! Do you really trust Marriott to NOT devalue DC allotments, when we've seen them devalue everything else?!" It was a valid concern and something that many of us have been watching for since the DC inception. Until now there hasn't ever been anyone on TUG saying that it happened to their Weeks (and honestly, now that you're saying it did, I'm surprised that more people haven't jumped in here.) That's why I'm trying to pinpoint the details of your experience.


The question is, when did the downgrade by 100 DC points happen. Was it in those first couple weeks like the 2BR SW?


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## SueDonJ (Sep 16, 2019)

dioxide45 said:


> The question is, when did the downgrade by 100 DC points happen. Was it in those first couple weeks like the 2BR SW?



In his first post about this issue, dgf says that their original total DC Points allotment was 13,000 then, _"a few years back when they were adjusting point values one of our early purchases (Ocean Point) was decreased by 100 points leaving us with 12,900." _ So it doesn't seem as though this is similar to the SW 2BR/3BR issue at rollout where an obvious IT error affected every one of those particular SW weeks?

The only blanket adjustments ever talked about on TUG were the changes in status tiers that happened in 2015, when (in addition to other threshold changes) the threshold for Chairman's Club was set at 15,000, and those who were already enrolled and fell in the 13,000-14,999 range as Premier Plus members were grandfathered to CC. If dgf's total is actually 13,000 and none of his weeks allotments were reduced, it makes sense that his current CC status was grandfathered at that time. But I can't make any sense out of a single week's allotment being reduced by 100 with that adjustment not triggering the correct status tier adjustment for a 12,900 total at the same time.


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## Dean (Sep 16, 2019)

SueDonJ said:


> Those were 2BR Weeks which in the IT system were incorrectly allotted the amount for 3BR's. The corrections to both the DC allotments and resulting status tiers were made within a week or so of them learning of it. As an owner of 3BR weeks at SW, believe me I would have fought for additional DC Points in my allotments if they hadn't made the corrections.


Thanks.   I don't recall seeing that those who actually enrolled at the time with the higher amount were cut back, if I did, I didn't recall seeing it.  It was just a few days it was listed that way IIRC.  I didn't do the enrollment online at that moment because I had questions and uncertainties.  I think there are 2 sides but I could have seen them going either way.


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## SueDonJ (Sep 16, 2019)

Dean said:


> Thanks.   I don't recall seeing that those who actually enrolled at the time with the higher amount were cut back, if I did, I didn't recall seeing it.  It was just a few days it was listed that way IIRC.  I didn't do the enrollment online at that moment because I had questions and uncertainties.  I think there are 2 sides but I could have seen them going either way.



At least on TUG there weren't any reports of someone's enrollment being finalized and then subsequently corrected because of the SW 2BR/3BR IT issue. It was found early on and corrected almost immediately, within the first two weeks of the DC rollout. There were a few like you who saw the error and its correction before filing for enrollment, and there was the one guy who posted a couple days before the correction that he was immediately enrolling and daring Marriott to correct what we all saw as an obvious IT error. But the day after his submission he got an email saying that his enrollment wouldn't go through because of this IT error. He was surprised, I think, to find that most TUGgers didn't agree with him that Marriott should have allowed his account to stand uncorrected, because after that he went through and deleted all of his posts about it.

I feel the same way about the SW 2BR/3BR issue now as I did then - it was such an obvious IT error that affected only that one particular Week/interval and it was noticed almost immediately, so Marriott did the right thing by correcting the error across the board within days of learning that it existed.


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