# RCI Increases Exchange Fees Again [merged]



## krj9999 (Dec 29, 2009)

$194 call center
$179 online
Beginning 1/1/10

:annoyed:


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## UWSurfer (Dec 29, 2009)

boooooo....hissssssss   :deadhorse:


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## timeos2 (Dec 29, 2009)

*The exact result predicted - none of it good*

SOMEONE has to pay for the ever so valuable lawsuit costs! You didn't think it would be the stockholders, did you?  Now the full consequences of that ill-fated exercise in making a few shysters rich have come to pass exactly as predicted when it began.  Why won't people learn it doesn't work?


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## gravityrules (Dec 30, 2009)

*Pricing themselves out of some business*

It's getting more difficult for a one-time a year exchanger to justify using RCI with the membership fee + the exchange fee.  Several competitors, although admittedly much smaller operations, offer lower exchange fees with no yearly membership fees.  Direct exchange and facilitator business models (i.e. no inventory) should grow and those costs can be quite low.  How much, if any, of RCI's price increases are signs of the increased risk of their business model?


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## dougp26364 (Dec 30, 2009)

timeos2 said:


> SOMEONE has to pay for the ever so valuable lawsuit costs! You didn't think it would be the stockholders, did you?  Now the full consequences of that ill-fated exercise in making a few shysters rich have come to pass exactly as predicted when it began.  Why won't people learn it doesn't work?




If only RCI would provide the exchange service they promise rather than renting condo's instead. the class action lawsuit would never have happened in the first place.


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## dougp26364 (Dec 30, 2009)

gravityrules said:


> It's getting more difficult for a one-time a year exchanger to justify using RCI with the membership fee + the exchange fee.  Several competitors, although admittedly much smaller operations, offer lower exchange fees with no yearly membership fees.  Direct exchange and facilitator business models (i.e. no inventory) should grow and those costs can be quite low.  How much, if any, of RCI's price increases are signs of the increased risk of their business model?




Myabe RCI will finally price themselves out of the buisness. Get prices high enough that owners stop paying membership and exchange fee's, then stop giving RCI inventory to rent. Then maybe RCI will get back to providing a decent exchange service. 

The thing is, by the time the realize people are leaving them, the horse will have left the barn and other exchange companies like SFX will be getting the benefits. If the independents provide a reasonable alternative at a lower cost with better results, it will be hard for RCI to win back the buisness they lose.


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## kjsgrammy (Dec 30, 2009)

We currently have 3 deposits with RCI.  Our membership with them is thru 2013.  I will NOT be depositing any more weeks with them and do NOT intend to extend my membership past 2013.  This latest increase to the exchange fee was the last straw.


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## Stricky (Dec 30, 2009)

krj9999 said:


> $194 call center
> $179 online
> Beginning 1/1/10
> 
> :annoyed:



Do you have a link? I do not see that info anywhere.


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## timeos2 (Dec 30, 2009)

*The value is already less than the cost*



dougp26364 said:


> Myabe RCI will finally price themselves out of the buisness. Get prices high enough that owners stop paying membership and exchange fee's, then stop giving RCI inventory to rent. Then maybe RCI will get back to providing a decent exchange service.
> 
> The thing is, by the time the realize people are leaving them, the horse will have left the barn and other exchange companies like SFX will be getting the benefits. If the independents provide a reasonable alternative at a lower cost with better results, it will be hard for RCI to win back the buisness they lose.



I think they already have (as has II).  When you add up the cost to be a member of either or both groups plus the exchange fee you have easily reached $250+. Our original week in 1993 had an annual fee of $290! Even with a very low cost exchange ($500) unit the average nightly rate has exceeded $100, which is a magic number to most owners. It isn't worth it to me the pay that type of cost for what usually is a compromised exchange.  

I believe they are trying to move the majority of owners toward points based trades, a move I happen to agree with.  It is far easier to get a good value out using points with the bonuses of known values and the ability to fine tune the request to maximize annual return on your ownership.  It also differentiates RCI from II as, so far except for links to other outside points systems, II lacks a points based exchange.  Not having to commit 100% of a deposit for a single exchange is a major plus for RCI Points vs the all or nothing of weeks systems.   

It has been over 8 years since I have been a paid member of either weeks based system from the big two (I do have access thanks to prepaid accounts from Wyndham - RCI and Diamond - II) and I haven't missed them one bit. In looking back well over 80% of my use has been purely within one of the points systems during those years and the remainder that were weeks based were all cheapo, last minute type stuff that represented throw away time. Often I book 7 days to actually use 4-5 and its still cheaper than a cramped hotel room. The fact that inventory like that is so readily available shows that strict week for week trades don't have good value to owners who want more control over how and where the use their time than those systems offer. Paying for a substandard exchange process is the height of folly to me. So the current prices have effectively made membership no option for our use. We would never go back.


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## Carolinian (Dec 30, 2009)

What they are trying to move timesharers to is a rental-based system.  For educated timesharers, what they are doing is moving us to independent exchange companies.  They are sticking it to the points people on fee increases, too.  I was talking to a timeshare manager in Europe who was commenting that the handful of members who had joined points at their resort were extremely uphappy with increases in points fees and wish they had never gotten hung up in points.


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## krj9999 (Dec 30, 2009)

I just log into my weeks account and it is displayed on the main page.



Stricky said:


> Do you have a link? I do not see that info anywhere.


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## dougp26364 (Dec 30, 2009)

It would not surprise me to see more Interval based developers going to internal points based exchange systems that use points as a method for exchanges through Interval (ala DRI). This would be different from RCI's system in that RCI developed one system for all instead of allowing developers to develope, market and manage their own points based system for internal exchanges, then convert the points in those developers systems into a value for exchanges with RCI.


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## Stricky (Dec 30, 2009)

Intersting. There is nothing on the points side. I do see it on the weeks site.

Currently there is a $25 price difference between online and phone exchanges and now they are increasing phone by $5 and online by $15 making the price difference only $15.

I would expect prices to increase 3%-5% a year but isn't that the second increase in just a few months?  Maybe with the extra money they can fix all the online glitches.


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## geekette (Dec 30, 2009)

dougp26364 said:


> The thing is, by the time the realize people are leaving them, the horse will have left the barn and other exchange companies like SFX will be getting the benefits. If the independents provide a reasonable alternative at a lower cost with better results, it will be hard for RCI to win back the buisness they lose.



Which will serve them right.  I hope that day comes soon.


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## geekette (Dec 30, 2009)

Stricky said:


> Intersting. There is nothing on the points side. I do see it on the weeks site.
> 
> Currently there is a $25 price difference between online and phone exchanges and now they are increasing phone by $5 and online by $15 making the price difference only $15.
> 
> I would expect prices to increase 3%-5% a year but isn't that the second increase in just a few months?  Maybe with the extra money they can fix all the online glitches.



I thought they increased every January.  The difference between online vs phone may have come about this year.

oh, and keep dreaming on having a workable website.


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## AwayWeGo (Dec 30, 2009)

*RCI Is An Option We Can Do Without If They Price Themselves Out Of The Market.*




timeos2 said:


> When you add up the cost to be a member of either or both groups plus the exchange fee you have easily reached $250+.


We pretty much quit doing straight-weeks exchanges after we took the points plunge. 

After that, we did a straight-points exchange exactly once. 

Just about all our resort vacations in other people's timeshares are now done via RCI _Instant Exchange_ & _Last Call._ 

If RCI manages to price those beyond our comfort zone, we can go back to staying in our own outstanding timeshares using our own paid-for time -- which was the original concept anyhow when we 1st got into timesharing. 

RCI is a fun extra add-on only for so long as it's advantageous & economical.  

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


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## DaveNV (Dec 30, 2009)

RCI is heaping on the evidence that it just doesn't pay to use them.  Compounded against increasing maintenance fees at Wyndham resorts, these increases in RCI's fees only further shows me why I've chosen to end my relationship with them.  I have one week on deposit with them, and it's the last they'll be getting from me.  I plan to either stay at my resorts, or use an alternative company in the future.

And has anyone really dissected the fact that Wyndham owns RCI?  If mf fees are going up, and exchange fees are also going up, at what point does it become too expensive to own a timeshare?  (I still think the Wyndham-RCI relationship is fraudulent and predatory.  But that's just me...)

Regarding the points-based systems some of you say works so well for you:  How do you deal with the rising fees there, as well as the devaluation of what your points will get you?  I'm a weeks guy, and at last count, seven nights was still seven nights.  I'd hate to convert my weeks to points, then end up with something less than seven nights worth.

Dave


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## JMAESD84 (Dec 30, 2009)

Those of you unhappy with RCI should strongly consider posting what you can trade here at TUG with free direct exchange and also consider Redweek which assigns a point value to your deposit.

I think that both are excellent alternative methods to achieve a positive exchange.


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## e.bram (Dec 30, 2009)

AwayWeGo:
Good then you be able tell us all about South Africa.


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## AwayWeGo (Dec 30, 2009)

*It's Pretty Much All Been Told -- Right Here On TUG-BBS.*




e.bram said:


> Good then you be able tell us all about South Africa.


Everything I know about South African timeshares is already on TUG-BBS, from how we caught on to the idea via TUG in 2002 to how we sprang for an outstanding 2BR standard-grade South African timeshare unit for about $750 (US), with several years of RCI membership thrown in at no extra cost.  

Since then, we've used our South African timeshare for several advantageous week-for-week exchanges into other people's nice USA timeshares, & we have done _Points For Deposit_ with it the years we didn't swap it week-for-week. 

Right now, we have our 2010 & 2011 South African timeshare weeks banked with RCI, for possible straight-weeks exchanges, or in the alternative for _Points For Deposit._ 

All that is 100% factual & experience-based -- our experience, that is, with nothing made up & no guesswork.  How well that matches other people's experience I have no way of telling. 

So it goes. 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


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## dougp26364 (Dec 31, 2009)

AwayWeGo said:


> Everything I know about South African timeshares is already on TUG-BBS, from how we caught on to the idea via TUG in 2002 to how we sprang for an outstanding 2BR standard-grade South African timeshare unit for about $750 (US), with several years of RCI membership thrown in at no extra cost.
> 
> Since then, we've used our South African timeshare for several advantageous week-for-week exchanges into other people's nice USA timeshares, & we have done _Points For Deposit_ with it the years we didn't swap it week-for-week.
> 
> ...



And heck, when things don't go well, you can just walk away.


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## gjw007 (Dec 31, 2009)

timeos2 said:


> SOMEONE has to pay for the ever so valuable lawsuit costs! You didn't think it would be the stockholders, did you?  Now the full consequences of that ill-fated exercise in making a few shysters rich have come to pass exactly as predicted when it began.  Why won't people learn it doesn't work?



That's a little harsh.  While I don't think that RCI can really justify its price structure, it does have some expenses.  The computers and call centers are expensive operations (I work in a 24/7 call center).  My problem with RCI is that it really doesn't own the inventory that it rents or exchanges. I do believe that exchange organizations enhance exchange capabilities and hence commerce, but RCI is not purely an exchange organization (rentals as an example).  Imagine if Wal-mart or any other store operated like this.   It would have the overhead for the building and staff but the inventory is owned and paid for by somebody else (with some exchanges between owners but this still would profit the organization) with the store then having no cost of inventory.   Sad but true, it is cheaper to rent than to own when all costs are included.  That is not the way it should be.


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## janej (Dec 31, 2009)

We've been with RCI since 1999.  If I remember right, there is not any year RCI did not increase the exchange fee by $10.


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## Egret1986 (Dec 31, 2009)

*Boda-Bing!  I've been searching for this exchange daily for the last 4 months!*

I got a last minute 7500 pt exchange this past year into this oceanfront resort into a one bedroom.  My Mom and her best friend used it for 4 nights and my husband and I used it for the last 3 nights during the yearly end-of-summer festival that my family loves to attend each year.  Hotels for that weekend have crazy rates and most are booked months in advance.  My Mom loved this timeshare so much that she begged for me to get it for her next year.  I explained that it was a last minute and there would be no guarantees.  Well, next year during that weekend festival, she will be celebrating her 70th B-day.  I got a free 2009 week spacebanked with RCI when I purchased a timeshare a few months back.

I've been searching every day.  Well, tonight (hours before the new fees start), a 2BR for the week I needed popped up at this resort.  It is now mine and just cost me an exchange fee and at the current exchange fee rate.  I'm thrilled to be able to give her this great present for her 70th B-day!


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## bilfbr245 (Jan 1, 2010)

I have had good luck extracting good value from RCI exchanges thus far, but it does concern me that so many are finding the available trades diminishing at the same time that the exchange rates are going up.  In terms of cost, it seems to me that the timeshare cost structure is poised at a point where if there is much more increase anywhere, the whole system becomes uneconomic.   I will certainly be leaving RCI soon, unless I feel I am continuing to get good value exchanges. 

Also, contrary to a previous post, I am not sure that it is fair to pin this increase on the lawsuit.  My guess is that RCI would have increased rates even if there had been no lawsuit.  My suspicion is that the increase has less to do with recovering legitimate costs, and more to do with increasing profit margins by extorting a captive market.  I have no data to back up this suspicion, but that is because RCI is not a particualarly transparant operation.


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## bilfbr245 (Jan 1, 2010)

I have had good luck extracting good value from RCI exchanges thus far, but it does concern me that so many are finding the available trades diminishing at the same time that the exchange rates are going up.  In terms of cost, it seems to me that the timeshare cost structure is poised at a point where if there is much more increase anywhere, the whole system becomes uneconomic.   I will certainly be leaving RCI soon, unless I feel I am continuing to get good value exchanges. 

Also, contrary to a previous post, I am not sure that it is fair to pin this increase on the lawsuit.  My guess is that RCI would have increased rates even if there had been no lawsuit.  My suspicion is that the increase has less to do with recovering legitimate costs, and more to do with increasing profit margins by extorting a captive market.  I have no data to back up this suspicion, but that is because RCI is not a particularly transparant operation.


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## skimble (Jan 3, 2010)

janej said:


> We've been with RCI since 1999.  If I remember right, there is not any year RCI did not increase the exchange fee by $10.



And, if they continue this pattern, or the pattern of 3%-5% increase every year, where will we be? 
At some point in time, RCI will realize the law of diminishing returns.  I believe increasing costs in the midst of a massive recession is the catalyst for a mass exodus.  This might be the straw.


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## skimble (Jan 3, 2010)

To think... they outsourced much of their service to Mexico, and the Philipines to save a few bucks.  Now, they've downsized and routed us into a computer answering system that forces you to endure a 15 minutes maze before you can speak to an actual person.  (Did they save any money with this?)


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## skimble (Jan 3, 2010)

At some point, people make a stand against greed.  First Bank, about 15 years ago, decided to make an extra buck by processing payments one week late, assessing their customers the $30 late fee and telling them to send in their payments 14 days before it's due... they lost 80% of their business within months, driving them out.  
This whole thing makes no sense... 
Hotel chains are struggling to get people in.  Even Vegas, with all it's vacation allure is struggling; room prices are lower than they were in the 80's.  (You can get a hotel room for $18/night)
The whole Vacation industry is WAY down, and it's not predicted to get better.   
Timeshare weeks are being rented for the cost of maintenance fees or lower-- even through the resorts themselves. 

I honestly thought RCI would follow suit with the rest of the industry and lower costs to entice more travel and exchange.


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## Timeshare Von (Jan 3, 2010)

janej said:


> We've been with RCI since 1999.  If I remember right, there is not any year RCI did not increase the exchange fee by $10.



You're mistaken, as the $164 (online) price has been around for at least a couple of years.  According to my exchange records, I did one on 1/10/08 for $164.


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## Timeshare Von (Jan 3, 2010)

bilfbr245 said:


> I have had good luck extracting good value from RCI exchanges thus far, but it does concern me that so many are finding the available trades diminishing at the same time that the exchange rates are going up.  In terms of cost, it seems to me that the timeshare cost structure is poised at a point where if there is much more increase anywhere, the whole system becomes uneconomic.   I will certainly be leaving RCI soon, unless I feel I am continuing to get good value exchanges.



This is pretty much where I'm at too.  For exchanges I consider the total cost of the transaction (MF + exchange fee) and continue to find that my cost on a per week basis is still at (or just under) $700 for the week . . . less than $100/night.

Given that I have been able to do Hawaii on a regular basis (at least one week annually), I can find no reason to complain.  Would I like to pay less?  Of course I would . . . but still, $700 (or less) for a 2BR timeshare unit in Hawaii is a bargain and not one I'm going to fuss too much about.

Even our exchanges abroad have been decent . . . and I'm looking forward to booking more in the near future (Kenya and Ireland for sure).  Speaking of international, has anyone see the pricing for those?  Did they also go up?

Von


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## bnoble (Jan 3, 2010)

We often hear $100/night as the magic number of sustainability, but that number hasn't changed here at TUG over the years---and perhaps it should.  In general, hotel rates have been going up, excepting the past year and a half or so when the economy has been in the dumper and discounting has been prevalent.  

For example, I paid $133 this past August for a night in the Pittsburgh suburbs on our way back from the beach.  Likewise, my wife is going to be headed to her annual convention in New Orleans this upcoming May.  Negotiated conference rates start at $129+tax and go up (way up) from there.


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## Timeshare Von (Jan 3, 2010)

bnoble said:


> We often hear $100/night as the magic number of sustainability, but that number hasn't changed here at TUG over the years---and perhaps it should.  In general, hotel rates have been going up, excepting the past year and a half or so when the economy has been in the dumper and discounting has been prevalent.
> 
> For example, I paid $133 this past August for a night in the Pittsburgh suburbs on our way back from the beach.  Likewise, my wife is going to be headed to her annual convention in New Orleans this upcoming May.  Negotiated conference rates start at $129+tax and go up (way up) from there.



I hear you!  I too was in NoLA this past summer for a conference, where the hotel rates were pushing $200 a night.   (That organizing association must have been getting quite the room rebate/kickback!)

It is easy to pay close to $100/night for dives these days, even with the sucky economy.  I'm paying $80/night for a Super8 in Antigo, WI in a few weeks.


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## timeos2 (Jan 3, 2010)

*Wrong time - right idea*



bnoble said:


> We often hear $100/night as the magic number of sustainability, but that number hasn't changed here at TUG over the years---and perhaps it should.  In general, hotel rates have been going up, excepting the past year and a half or so when the economy has been in the dumper and discounting has been prevalent.
> 
> For example, I paid $133 this past August for a night in the Pittsburgh suburbs on our way back from the beach.  Likewise, my wife is going to be headed to her annual convention in New Orleans this upcoming May.  Negotiated conference rates start at $129+tax and go up (way up) from there.



The artificially depressed hotel room rates can hardly be the benchmark for timeshare annual fees. Hotels are struggling or even closing, usually not an option for timeshares/condos, even as they slash rates to get cash in hand. Of course in most cases comparing a timeshare unit (at least a full unit not a mini-lockoff or studio) to a hotel room is also an unfair comparison. Most people would prefer, and thus pay at least a little more, for a unit with more features and room than a hotel offers.  While many timeshare owners and even resorts are also cutting rates to get cash that isn't a sustainable model and shouldn't be the base for "value" in fees.  In the short term it is out of whack but, hopefully, the economy will turn around and hotel rates will recover and make timeshare fees also return to a value situation.  Yes it may be time soon to revisit the nightly rate that represents a given "value" over rentals. $120 doesn't roll off the tongue as easily as $100 but it may be closer to reality.


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## Timeshare Von (Jan 3, 2010)

timeos2 said:


> The artificially depressed hotel room rates can hardly be the benchmark for timeshare annual fees. Hotels are struggling or even closing, usually not an option for timeshares/condos, even as they slash rates to get cash in hand. Of course in most cases comparing a timeshare unit (at least a full unit not a mini-lockoff or studio) to a hotel room is also an unfair comparison. Most people would prefer, and thus pay at least a little more, for a unit with more features and room than a hotel offers.  While many timeshare owners and even resorts are also cutting rates to get cash that isn't a sustainable model and shouldn't be the base for "value" in fees.  In the short term it is out of whack but, hopefully, the economy will turn around and hotel rates will recover and make timeshare fees also return to a value situation.  Yes it may be time soon to revisit the nightly rate that represents a given "value" over rentals. $120 doesn't roll off the tongue as easily as $100 but it may be closer to reality.



Also good points!  We were just in Nashville at the Wyndham in a 2BR unit, with my MIL along too.  We would have needed two rooms, which easily would have been $150/night total . . . in a 2 or 3 star motel.

Again, I'm still happy with my value proposition, even though I do own probably one more timeshare that I need right now 

Of course, the other part of this equation not being discussed are the front-end sunk costs of buying the timeshare.  Having acquired/bought on the resale market makes my "investment" negligble, hence I don't even figure that into my value analysis.  For those who paid full retail from the developer, that math isn't nearly as attractive.

P.S.  We probably saved $40/day in not having to eat breakfast out each morning . . . something else to be considered when calculating value.


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## skimble (Jan 3, 2010)

http://www.rockcheetah.com/blog/hotel/us-hotel-performance-time-baseline-reset/

The hotel industry saw decreased demand, decreased proficts-- a terrible 2009.  But, of course, projections show a positive 2010.  
Is this what's fueling the "kick'm when their down" attitude of RCI?


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## skimble (Jan 3, 2010)

One more gauling thing... 
They increased fees at the beginning of the year... right after people have paid their maintenance fees, right after property taxes, and right when people are most likely to deposit and make the most exchanges.  
There should be a mandatory warning that RCI has to give (like the banks at ATM machines) about the fees they will incur.  Most people are going to walk into this fee increase blindly.  They'll do it as a mistake this year, but change next.


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## bnoble (Jan 3, 2010)

John: that's exactly my point.  Even in a very down economy for RevPAR, rates for "mere hotel rooms" are generally north of that magic $100/night number unless you're really getting into the el-cheapo franchises.  No one likes paying more money, but prices do go up, and so perhaps should our "viability" number.


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## Timeshare Von (Jan 3, 2010)

bnoble said:


> John: that's exactly my point.  Even in a very down economy for RevPAR, rates for "mere hotel rooms" are generally north of that magic $100/night number unless you're really getting into the el-cheapo franchises.  No one likes paying more money, but prices do go up, and so perhaps should our "viability" number.



Yes, but the hotel industry metric of "RevPAR" is "revenue per available room" and includes meeting space, food/beverage and any other income generating activity/service . . . so I don't know that discussing RevPAR is really appropriate in this timeshare comparison discussion.


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## DianeV (Jan 3, 2010)

I agree, travel has to be down and I wonder if RCI is getting as many weeks deposited either..them raising their fee every year when their service (and availability to exchange to) goes down is only going to hurt them


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## bilfbr245 (Jan 3, 2010)

One factor that would seem to justify higher prices for hotels compared to timeshares is that once a resort is sold out, it is essentially full all the time, except for unpaid MF's. By full, I mean that someone is paying MF's for the unit, whether it is actually in use or not.  I do realize that unpaid MF's are becoming more of an issue, but that is another matter.  Hotels on the other hand must support their entire operation with occupancy levels that may be under 50 per cent in the off season.  They can save some of the variable costs at such times, such as cleaning, but many of the fixed costs must be recovered in the rates of the rooms that they actually rent.  And they must also earn a return on the investment in the property itself, which is not a factor in MF's.

I realize that hotel prices can go up and down dramatically within a short period of time, and are not a completely useful comparison to timeshare MF's.  But on the whole, since a return on the real estate investment is not an issue, and because all units are always assessed for sold out resorts, I would expect MF's to be considerably  lower than comparable hotel rates, even taking into consideration the extra amenities that timeshare offer.  In general, this is still true, but the gap seems to be tightening.  This makes me wonder if there is a certain "rip off" element embedded with many MF's, a concern that is not lessened by the overall lack of transparency surrounding these fees.  I think it will be important, as fees continue to escalate, for timeshare owners to demand greater transparency.  

Also, when timeshare rents remain below the cost of the MF's for a substantial period of time, it is hard not to conclude that the economics of the timeshare model have been undermined, at least for that resort.


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## bnoble (Jan 4, 2010)

> I don't know that discussing RevPAR is really appropriate in this timeshare comparison discussion.


Sorry---I was just using that as a proxy for "hotels must discount at the moment."


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## Jimster (Jan 4, 2010)

*RCI*

I regard RCI about as low as the TS salesmen.  They are ridiculous to say the least and not worth the expense.  Have you ever noticed- they never justify the increases- they just announce them.  Of course, the reason they never justify them is that they can't.  It is greed incarnate.  I hope no one uses them and they go bankrupt.  The problem is they have a nation of sheep blindly giving them deposits and paying through the nose for the exchanges (when they can find something worth exchanging for).  Other than that, I have no opinion and I am non-commital about them


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## Carolinian (Jan 4, 2010)

There are some decent, although not prime, RCI rentals out there for far less than $700/week.  These RCI rentals are competing with its exchange system, both members and resorts.  This is what is going to kill the ownership / exchange model unless resorts get proactive in migrating their members to other exchange options and dry up RCI's opportunities to cut its membes and affiliated resorts' throats.




Timeshare Von said:


> This is pretty much where I'm at too.  For exchanges I consider the total cost of the transaction (MF + exchange fee) and continue to find that my cost on a per week basis is still at (or just under) $700 for the week . . . less than $100/night.
> 
> Given that I have been able to do Hawaii on a regular basis (at least one week annually), I can find no reason to complain.  Would I like to pay less?  Of course I would . . . but still, $700 (or less) for a 2BR timeshare unit in Hawaii is a bargain and not one I'm going to fuss too much about.
> 
> ...


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## JEFF H (Jan 4, 2010)

$700 a week for a 2-BR in Prime season is still a good deal for timeshare owners like us who can work the system.
Problem is a lot of owners are paying much more, getting smaller units or having to accept off-season weeks.
I find Non prime-season RCI or II rentals at less than maintenance fee cost
All the time. Owners of off-season weeks are often paying more in maintenance fees and exchange fee costs than the weeks can be rented for.
As others pointed out RCI pays nothing for the inventory they rent out.
They operate as a reservation service and charge absured fees for the service. The fees are based on nothing but pure corporate greed.
They are killing the value of timeshare ownership but are a great place to rent
from. I now do only a couple of exchages compared to rentals.
I get great rental deals for myself,family and friends thru RCI and II


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## timeos2 (Jan 4, 2010)

*How is it right that II/ RCI gets to rent what they get for free?*



Carolinian said:


> There are some decent, although not prime, RCI rentals out there for far less than $700/week.  These RCI rentals are competing with its exchange system, both members and resorts.  This is what is going to kill the ownership / exchange model unless resorts get proactive in migrating their members to other exchange options and dry up RCI's opportunities to cut its membes and affiliated resorts' throats.



Carolinian and I agree on few things but this is one of them. It is a crime, or should be, that RCI (and II - they just aren't quite as upfront about it) can take what they get for free - owners paid for time - and use it to generate income for themselves. It is all the worse because it undermines the value of the use time for all owners.  How they managed to get a Court to agree it is legal and fair use of the "deposit" is way beyond my comprehension.  But they did so now it's up to the owners to cut off the supply.  It will be a very uphill fight as most has no idea this is happening and still blindly deposit to these borderline crooks.  

Let everyone you know that has a timeshare that making deposits to II/RCI is hurting values.  Try to get them to see why and have them use, rent or privately trade their time rather than give it to companies that act against their best interest.


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## rickandcindy23 (Jan 4, 2010)

The one advantage to being on the board at two resorts is I can make a difference.  

We sent, in the current billing for both resorts, a list of alternative exchange companies for owners to choose, and I listed all of the benefits, including the fact that the exchanges are cheaper, and there are no membership fees for most.  

It's my own little revenge tactic against RCI, and I feel good about it, too.  I hope at least 20% of owners choose another company over RCI.  The next newsletter, we will be talking about exchange fee increases that RCI has implemented, and we will compare those to the other companies on the list of alternates.  

I am going to make sure both of our Colorado beloved timeshare resorts keep being valuable to the owners.


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## skimble (Jan 4, 2010)

Jimster said:


> Of course, the reason they never justify them is that they can't.  It is greed incarnate.  I hope no one uses them and they go bankrupt.  The problem is they have a nation of sheep blindly giving them deposits and paying through the nose for the exchanges (when they can find something worth exchanging for).



They CAN justify their increase. 
Wyndham and Worldmark (I'm pretty sure) members pay guaranteed dues to RCI.  Every RCI Points week owner is a guaranteed membership and deposit.  Hilton, Sunterra and even Disney have special contracts with RCI that ensure deposits.  I'm pretty sure Every RCI affilliate guarantees a certain number of deposits.  
RCI knows the numbers; they know the percentage of units that go unused every year.  They know the average deposits from every resort in every chain.  Armed with that knowledge, they go to the HOA and get early deposits-- to bolster "exchange value." 
They've got a huge quantitiy of guaranteed deposits, whether owners Choose to or Not.  
They wouldn't be making a fiscally rash decision like this if they didn't absolutely see security in it.


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## skimble (Jan 4, 2010)

rickandcindy23 said:


> The one advantage to being on the board at two resorts is I can make a difference.
> 
> We sent, in the current billing for both resorts, a list of alternative exchange companies for owners to choose, and I listed all of the benefits, including the fact that the exchanges are cheaper, and there are no membership fees for most.
> 
> ...



Good for You!!   I hope other board members do the same.


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## melschey (Jan 4, 2010)

timeos2 said:


> SOMEONE has to pay for the ever so valuable lawsuit costs! You didn't think it would be the stockholders, did you?  Now the full consequences of that ill-fated exercise in making a few shysters rich have come to pass exactly as predicted when it began.  Why won't people learn it doesn't work?



I think RCI would be raising the fees even if there had never been a lawsuit.
RCI is going to keep raising the fees as long as people are willing to pay them, the lawsuit has nothing to do with it. If you don't like RCI's fees then do as I have done just quite using them. They will never get another deposit from Me.


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## SpeedTriple (Jan 6, 2010)

skimble said:


> To think... they outsourced much of their service to Mexico, and the Philipines to save a few bucks.  Now, they've downsized and routed us into a computer answering system that forces you to endure a 15 minutes maze before you can speak to an actual person.  (Did they save any money with this?)



The Philippines call center closed months ago...  They opened a new call center in Colorado.


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## SpeedTriple (Jan 6, 2010)

Also, the rate to exchange in weeks when I first started trading back in 2005 was $149 domestic and $189 overseas.  If you do your biz on the website it is $179 anywhere you go.  I don't think that $30 in five years is too much to ask for an increase...  Geez!


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## skimble (Jan 7, 2010)

SpeedTriple said:


> The Philippines call center closed months ago...  They opened a new call center in Colorado.



So basically, we're paying an extra $15 to talk with an American.  That actually makes sense.


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## skimble (Jan 7, 2010)

SpeedTriple said:


> Also, the rate to exchange in weeks when I first started trading back in 2005 was $149 domestic and $189 overseas.  If you do your biz on the website it is $179 anywhere you go.  I don't think that $30 in five years is too much to ask for an increase...  Geez!



When you look at the big picture... 
Maintenance fees for most of my resort have increased by at least 10%.  
The rates for hotel resort vacation weeks on the open market have decreased by 16%
The cost of many of the Getaway rentals on RCI are equal to the total cost of maintenance fees.  
Rentals on the open market are close in cost to maintenance fees.  

All said... this devalues your timeshare investment.  When your investment is devalued, so is Every other owner's.  To some, this is an excuse to walk away; defaults lead to higher costs for paying owners.  

Adding another $15 to the cost of your exchange, albeit small, is another straw on this camel's back.  
In a prosperous economy, I could mitigate this, but now is a bad time.


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## gravityrules (Jan 8, 2010)

skimble said:


> They CAN justify their increase.
> Wyndham and Worldmark (I'm pretty sure) members pay guaranteed dues to RCI.  Every RCI Points week owner is a guaranteed membership and deposit.  Hilton, Sunterra and even Disney have special contracts with RCI that ensure deposits.  I'm pretty sure Every RCI affilliate guarantees a certain number of deposits.
> RCI knows the numbers; they know the percentage of units that go unused every year.  They know the average deposits from every resort in every chain.  Armed with that knowledge, they go to the HOA and get early deposits-- to bolster "exchange value."
> *They've got a huge quantitiy of guaranteed deposits, whether owners Choose to or Not.
> They wouldn't be making a fiscally rash decision like this if they didn't absolutely see security in it*.



Do we have any idea what % of RCI inventory is from direct deposits by owners?  Are direct owner deposits such a small % that RCI no longer views owners as their main customers?  Perhaps the developers/resort groups are the primary customers.  If so, losing some of the direct owner deposits may not mean that much to RCI and the revenue loss is somewhat offset by the exchange fee increase.

As mentioned many times, RCI's rental strategy seems to be damaging the value proposition for timesharing and that should be a major concern for developers.   TS sales are ever more dependent upon uninformed buyers at a time when re-sale and rental pricing is more available than ever.  This must not matter much, surely Wyndham 'knows the numbers' here as well and wouldn't be damaging their own TS development business.

Perhaps its the developers who must object to RCI's rental strategies to make any meaningful changes in their policies.


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## skimble (Jan 9, 2010)

gravityrules said:


> Do we have any idea what % of RCI inventory is from direct deposits by owners?  Are direct owner deposits such a small % that RCI no longer views owners as their main customers?  Perhaps the developers/resort groups are the primary customers.  If so, losing some of the direct owner deposits may not mean that much to RCI and the revenue loss is somewhat offset by the exchange fee increase.
> 
> As mentioned many times, RCI's rental strategy seems to be damaging the value proposition for timesharing and that should be a major concern for developers.   TS sales are ever more dependent upon uninformed buyers at a time when re-sale and rental pricing is more available than ever.  This must not matter much, surely Wyndham 'knows the numbers' here as well and wouldn't be damaging their own TS development business.
> 
> Perhaps its the developers who must object to RCI's rental strategies to make any meaningful changes in their policies.



Back about 8 years ago, when RCI was using 11th hour to liquidate weeks for a pitance-- ($199 for a last minute week.)  There were weeks at prime locations being offered at prime times.  People were able to pull some fantastic Grand Pacific Weeks for summer.  
I posted my intentions on TUG, and then on our way home from the beach, I stopped at the Grand Pacific Palisades to hand out a few flyers informing people where they could get GP weeks for a $199 rental fee.  Keep in mind, timeshare sales presentations were very active during this time.  
RCI stopped cold turkey.  It took 1 day.  They pulled 3 auctions they had going for the Carlsbad Inn, the Grand Pacific Palisades and The Southern California Beach Club.  And, they increased their asking price, adding an additional fee too.  
Yes... the develpers have a lot of clout with RCI.


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## mrso93 (Jan 10, 2010)

*Exchange fees up again!!!!!*

Whats with RCI and raising the exchange fees again? It is so upsetting,just making it real tough to try and keep it all together. Remember when exchange fees were $69.00 maybe 18 years ago. What is so different today? It is easier now with the computer and who does the work? Not a VC. Pricing themselves out of business and me too.


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## Jimster (Jan 10, 2010)

*fees*

You think they need a justification besides they want more money?   They haven't justifed any of their price increases.  They simply want to bleed you as much as they can.  You are talking about an organization that allegedly rents out the free deposits you give them.


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## Icc5 (Jan 10, 2010)

*Lawyer fees*



mrso93 said:


> Whats with RCI and raising the exchange fees again? It is so upsetting,just making it real tough to try and keep it all together. Remember when exchange fees were $69.00 maybe 18 years ago. What is so different today? It is easier now with the computer and who does the work? Not a VC. Pricing themselves out of business and me too.



This just might be how they pay their lawyer fees for the lawsuits.  If that is the case expect rates to go sky high forever.  And yes, I remember when the fees seemed reasonable and you got decent exchanges.  Long gone years.
Bart


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## Carol C (Jan 10, 2010)

timeos2 said:


> SOMEONE has to pay for the ever so valuable lawsuit costs! You didn't think it would be the stockholders, did you?  Now the full consequences of that ill-fated exercise in making a few shysters rich have come to pass exactly as predicted when it began.  Why won't people learn it doesn't work?



Amen to that. I hope the few trinkets folks got out of the lawsuit "proceeds" makes it seem worth it...but the rest of us who didn't have our hands out will now share the extra financial burden of yet another fee increase. :annoyed:


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## JEFF H (Jan 13, 2010)

RCI is basically nothing more than a Third party central reservation system.
Is the service they provide really worth $179 per reservation made?
Break down the exchange fee and for a weekly exchange RCI is charging $25.57 per night for processing a reservation for members. That’s a pretty steep fee for making a reservation. The members provide the weeks so RCI does not own the inventory.  All they do is manage the exchange of member deposited weeks. 
My yearly Maintenance fee is $716 for my resort. RCI exchange fee costs amount to a additional 25% of that maintenance fee. What is RCI doing for me that is worth that much money?
If you have to cancel your reservation/exchange fee after 24 hours you lose the fee you paid and must pay another $179 to make a new reservation.
Wow! That’s really a great reservation service were getting from RCI.
On top of this outrageously high exchange fee and cancellation penalty members must also pay a yearly membership fee of about $80 per year just to belong to RCI.
We pay and Pay and pay again so RCI can turn around and rent the weeks we deposited out to non-members for less than we paid in yearly maintenance fees for our weeks. 
Their should be no doubt in anyones mind that RCI is exploiting members and the weeks they deposit.
We have the power to stop giving RCI our weeks and our money.
As soon as my deposited weeks are used RCI will not receive another penny of my money or any of my weeks.


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## melschey (Jan 13, 2010)

Carol C said:


> Amen to that. I hope the few trinkets folks got out of the lawsuit "proceeds" makes it seem worth it...but the rest of us who didn't have our hands out will now share the extra financial burden of yet another fee increase. :annoyed:



I don't buy this argument We would have had this increase even if there had never been a lawsuit. RCI will continue to raise rates as long as enough people keep using them. They will charge what ever the market will bear. When enough people get fed up and quit using RCI they will stop the excessive yearly rate increases and not before.


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## JEFF H (Jan 14, 2010)

Lets Compare the Top two exchange companies exchange fees.
Interval International Charges $139 for a domestic exchange and $154 for a international. 
RCI exchanges are now $179 online or $194 If you want to call and talk to a live person.
RCI charges $40 more than II to make a Domestic exchange and $25 more to make a international exchange.

What extra service is RCI providing members that justifies that high of a fee
premium?
Lack of competition in the exchange business and the belife that members are too ignorant to do anything about it allows RCI to exploit their members weeks and wallets.


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## DianeV (Mar 10, 2010)

I have a question. I started an ongoing search before the price increase so I have the $164 credit. I recently went to put a unit on hold doing my own search and it wants the $14 difference. So basically even though I started a search before the price increase I will have to pay the difference when I book? Or is it because it wasnt something the computer matched me up with versus using the 'take a peek' part?
thanks,
Diane


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## rickandcindy23 (Mar 10, 2010)

RCI still charges $139 for RCI Points reservations.  I no longer use weeks.  I am done with that, except for those darned Wyndham points I have in my RCI account.  HATE those things.


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## hajjah (Mar 10, 2010)

Ok, I hardly ever contact RCI by phone.  I have a unit on hold now and noticed that their hours have changed drastically.  What?  So, they are now open until 9:00 PM? Is this *eastern time*? What happened to 12 midnight???  We certainly are not getting more bang for our bucks.

*Vacation guides are available during the following hours:
Monday - Friday, 7:00 am - 9:00 pm (Local Time Zone)
Saturday - Sunday, 8:00 am - 5:00 pm (Local Time Zone)*


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