# Very pleased with low MF increases



## MOXJO7282 (Nov 17, 2010)

With all but my Maui 2011 MFs determined I must say I'm very pleased with the low annual increases. 

 My increases were 3.63% Myrtle Beach, 1.98% Grand Ocean, 1.46% Newport Coast and a -4.07% Aruba Surf.

An overall $97 increase from last year with the Maui still to be finalized.


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## DanCali (Nov 18, 2010)

MOXJO7282 said:


> With all but my Maui 2011 MFs determined I must say I'm very pleased with the low annual increases.
> 
> My increases were 3.63% Myrtle Beach, 1.98% Grand Ocean, 1.46% Newport Coast and a -4.07% Aruba Surf.
> 
> An overall $97 increase from last year with the Maui still to be finalized.



NCV taxes are billed by Orange County, vary by individual and are based on purchase price. Using just the MF portion billed by Marriott it's $877 vs. $862 which is a 1.7% increase. 

I don't disagree with your overall satisfaction though - in most years that type of increase would have been lower than a CPI adjustment.


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## dioxide45 (Nov 18, 2010)

It still hurts to have to shell out an extra $40-50 for MF. Sure it is only a 4-5% increase, but when MF are up over $1000, 4% is no longer small change.


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## RBERR1 (Nov 19, 2010)

I was actually happy to see my Barony Beach MF come down a little bit. (1.5%)


Cypress Harbour was up 4.6% and Sunset Pointe was up 3.5%.

For three properties, a total increase of $58 is not that bad.


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## GregT (Nov 19, 2010)

I've heard (unofficially) that MOC will be 8.3% increase.

I'm still waiting to see it on the website.

Best,

Greg


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## 1950bing (Nov 19, 2010)

Some say small...
Some say large...
either way you can count on them going up.
Is it really worth it ?
I say no !


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## ajlm33 (Nov 19, 2010)

It looks like Legends Edge (MLE) is up 12.9% over 2010, including a huge increase in the "bad debt" reserve.


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## Michigan Czar (Nov 19, 2010)

GregT said:


> I've heard (unofficially) that MOC will be 8.3% increase.
> 
> I'm still waiting to see it on the website.
> 
> ...



Greg,

Wow! I will be disappointed if MOC MF increases by that much, I hope what you heard wasn't accurate.

Jim


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## GregT (Nov 19, 2010)

Michigan Czar said:


> Greg,
> 
> Wow! I will be disappointed if MOC MF increases by that much, I hope what you heard wasn't accurate.
> 
> Jim



I believe it is correct -- I know they held the BOD meeting in October to review the budget and I emailed the property (several times) and they finally told me an 8.3% was approved.

But........not official................


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## dougp26364 (Nov 19, 2010)

Ocean Pointe is slated for a 6.6% to 7.7% increase according to what I've read. The budget was suppose to have been approved on 11/17 but I haven't seen it yet. Grand Chateau is also up but, I haven't figured out how much. MGC is collecting $380 for cash reserve funding. For the life of me I can't understand what a resort with so few amenities requires such a large cash reserve. We own three other Vegas resorts, none of which top out in cash reserve funding more than $200/unit owned and, the HGVC resort has far more to maintain than MGC.

Our MF with Ocean Pointe has nearly double in the 9 years we've owned there. If that trend continues, then the MF in 2021 will be in the range of $2,800 to $3,000. In another 20 years it would put the MF's in the $5,500 to $6,000 range. This has me to wondering at what point a timeshare resort is no longer a viable option for that resort.


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## winger (Nov 19, 2010)

dougp26364 said:


> ...In another 20 years it would put the MF's in the $5,500 to $6,000 range. This has me to wondering at what point a timeshare resort is no longer a viable option for that resort.



I know what we will do when the MF's are unreasonable - we will just "walk away" from the TS's.  Well, maybe we will attempt to give it away, first.


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## dougp26364 (Nov 20, 2010)

winger said:


> I know what we will do when the MF's are unreasonable - we will just "walk away" from the TS's.  Well, maybe we will attempt to give it away, first.



If MF's double every 10 to 12 years and, if enough current owners walk away, then timeshares that follow this trend will begin to fail. HOA/BOD's that have doubled MF's over the last 10 years need to figure out a different way in the next decade.


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## wof45 (Nov 20, 2010)

i have recently been wondering what will happen to older resorts -- not necessarily Marriotts -- with people not able to make their MF payments.  

Why would they hold onto the weeks in the bad seasons and pay the same MF as the people with average or great seasons?  When they try to dump the weeks on ebay, there will be no takers, so people will walk away from the bad weeks shifting the costs and rising MF onto the better weeks.

It becomes easy to see older resorts shutting down and being sold off for what the property is worth.

I think you can begin to see that even for Marriotts with the conversion points to the DC -- weeks with little or no value to convert.

Normally, one would think that the maintenance fees would only go up at the same rate as Hotel costs (same needs), but if people walk away from bad weeks, the rate will be higher since it would be like a hotel with poor occupancy.

The DC at least sees that coming since the cost in points for bad weeks at a resort are much lower than the cost in points for good weeks, and maintenance fees are proportional to points.

pretty scarey, huh?


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## MOXJO7282 (Nov 20, 2010)

GregT said:


> I believe it is correct -- I know they held the BOD meeting in October to review the budget and I emailed the property (several times) and they finally told me an 8.3% was approved.
> 
> But........not official................



This will be one of the highest increase I've seen in the Marriott system this year and would make me change the title of the thread, "Mixed feelings regarding MF increases. It would be more than twice the MF increases from all my other TSs combined.


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## Superchief (Nov 20, 2010)

When I compare MF fees, I do not include property taxes because that is controlled by the resort. My maintenance fees for Oceana Palms are projected to increase by 22% in the proposed budget. I have also heard that my Ocean Pointe is expected to increase by 6-8% with the reason (comments from resort manager) being higher personnel cost due to benefit expense (thanks to Obama care?). With unemplyment in the area being so high, I don't understand why personnel costs continue to increase at a rate significantly higher than CPI in this area. I still think it has something to do with increased staff needed to deal with the shorter stays due to DP. 

Royal Palms increased 6.3%. I was happy to see someone post that NCV is only going up about 2%, although I have not yet received my bill.


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## DanCali (Nov 20, 2010)

Superchief said:


> I was happy to see someone post that NCV is only going up about 2%, although I have not yet received my bill.



If you go the the appropriate section on www.my-vacationclub.com you should see NCV posted.


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## dougp26364 (Nov 20, 2010)

Superchief said:


> When I compare MF fees, I do not include property taxes because that is controlled by the resort. My maintenance fees for Oceana Palms are projected to increase by 22% in the proposed budget. I have also heard that my Ocean Pointe is expected to increase by 6-8% with the reason (comments from resort manager) being higher personnel cost due to benefit expense (thanks to Obama care?). With unemplyment in the area being so high, I don't understand why personnel costs continue to increase at a rate significantly higher than CPI in this area. I still think it has something to do with increased staff needed to deal with the shorter stays due to DP.
> 
> Royal Palms increased 6.3%. I was happy to see someone post that NCV is only going up about 2%, although I have not yet received my bill.



In the end, it does not matter why the MF's go up, only that they are going up at a rate that doubles them every 10 to 12 years. At that rate few will be able to continue to afford their resorts in the next decade and, dare I say only an elite few will be able to afford the MF's in another 20 years. Cost of living wages won't keep up and, those who are retired will fare even worse. 

In 2002, cash reserve funding for our Ocean Pointe 3 bedroom unit was $75. This year, if I'm reading things correctly, it's slightly under $300. Our cash reserve funding for our Grand Chateau 3 bedroom unit is just under $400. I'm not sure what Marriott is requiring HOA/BOD's buy to furnish our units (or whom they require we buy from) but, it's getting out of hand. We own 5 other timeshare and none of them require cash reserves in this range. Sure you can say it's all the amenities but, some resorts, like Grand Chateau, don't have that many amenities.

I'm all for cash reserve funding as it protects the owners from unforseen major expenses and special assessments but, this may be more than what should ordinarily be required based on our experiences with other timeshare resorts we own.


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## winger (Nov 20, 2010)

dougp26364 said:


> If MF's double every 10 to 12 years and, if enough current owners walk away, then timeshares that follow this trend will begin to fail. HOA/BOD's that have doubled MF's over the last 10 years need to figure out a different way in the next decade.


Doug - you normally are so elequent with words - yes, that is what I was getting at.  HOA/BOD's need to understand the consequences of their actions - MF's being one of them.  It is their judiciary responsibility to maintain the resorts, including doing all they can, at the most cost-effective way possible. This includes holding competitive biddings on housekeeping services, etc.  The HOA/BOA's must also know that owners are NOT cash cows, we all have our vacation budgets - and once the M/F's are no longer 'reasonable', owners will *not* continue their duty to pay.  Again, I for one will NOT hesitate to walk away if it comes to a point where I feel the HOA/BOD is just playing me for a fool.


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## winger (Nov 20, 2010)

dougp26364 said:


> In the end, it does not matter why the MF's go up, only that they are going up at a rate that doubles them every 10 to 12 years. At that rate few will be able to continue to afford their resorts in the next decade and, *dare I say only an elite few will be able to afford the MF's in another 20 years*. ....



The true question is at which point it makes NO FINANCIAL SENSE to own a timeshare - as compared to other means of vacationing.  Even TRUE ELITES know when they are wasting their money (or dare I say, getting "ripped off").

LOL, just last night, DW and I were discussing this thread - and we both agreed (half jokingly) that if it ever comes push to shove (with the TS MF's getting beyond reason), we can go back to basics and pitch the tent at some nice local camp ground.  Hey, even Hawaii has nice camps, some of which are on beaches !


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## Future20 (Nov 20, 2010)

If MF increases at 6% annually, it will double every 12 years.  So I guess the more sustainable rate is 4% that's slightly higher than inflation.  What makes owning TS less attractive in the past couple of years is that the alternative ways of vacationing are cheaper or comparable (eg. renting, or staying at hotels).


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## Superchief (Nov 20, 2010)

dougp26364 said:


> I'm not sure what Marriott is requiring HOA/BOD's buy to furnish our units (or whom they require we buy from) but, it's getting out of hand.



You make a good point. I recall when Marriott brought their premium bedding to MVC. Although the beds are extremely comfortable, I always thought that all of the pillows were a big waste of money because most people just throw them on the floor to get them out of the way (don't tell that to my wife  )


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## dougp26364 (Nov 20, 2010)

winger said:


> The true question is at which point it makes NO FINANCIAL SENSE to own a timeshare - as compared to other means of vacationing.  Even TRUE ELITES know when they are wasting their money (or dare I say, getting "ripped off").
> 
> LOL, just last night, DW and I were discussing this thread - and we both agreed (half jokingly) that if it ever comes push to shove (with the TS MF's getting beyond reason), we can go back to basics and pitch the tent at some nice local camp ground.  Hey, even Hawaii has nice camps, some of which are on beaches !



One only has to look at the bad debt write off expense line of this years MF budget to understand that MF's have already risen to a point where owners are beginning to walk. Continued increases of 6% annually will excelerate this process. It is my opinion that this will begin to reach crisis mode with 10 more years of 5 to 6% increases and will be unsustainable in another 12 to 15 years. 

This probably should have been considered by Marriott and the HOA/BOD's a few years back but, defaults were relatively low and there was little reason for concern. I know others have brought this subject up over the past few years and, I'll admit I was on the side of maintaining high quality resorts at very high standards and the MF was part of that price. 

However, after sitting down this year and looking at the math, I can see a point in time where the non-judicial foreclosure may eventually come in handy for myself in allowing the HOA/BOD to take my units back. It's going to reach a point in the next few years where I can no longer validate owning such low value/high maintenance property. There is no resale value  and, even now I can find better value for my vacation dollar (Caribbean cruises can be had to less than my MF and include food, entertainment and twice daily cabin service as an example). If A staunch supporter of the timeshare vacation lifestyle is beginning to look at their ownership in this manner, I can only imagine what those who are feeling the financial crunch of a continued slow economy are thinking. I do fear the defaults this year will rise above those expected of many HOA/BOD's for high MF resorts such as Marriott.


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## classiclincoln (Nov 20, 2010)

Today I just got (and paid) my Grande Vista fees.  I think they went down!!


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## siberiavol (Nov 20, 2010)

I recently had a twenty minute conversation with a GM about maintenance fees.I was concerned about bad debt expense continuing to rise among other things. The GM explained a little bit about the process of dealing with bad debts.

At this time Marriott handles bad debts for most if not all HOA. It can take three years to do a judicial foreclosures.  A non judicial can be done in a year. After the foreclosures Marriott pays back the HOA all the bad debts and maintains ownership of the property.Thus there is a lag time in payback to HOA of the missed maintenance fees.

It was suggested that Marriott might stop this process and leave it to at least some of HOA to handle things themselves thus the decision to increase bad debt provision. Interestingly the bad debts are not increasing at an accelerating rate which surprised me. The impression I had was HOA in general are over reserving a little bid in view of last few years problems.

Each property has its own story in a sense related to what is happening. I was very appreciative of the explanation which was clear and understandable. A letter about some of the HOA board's thinking would be helpful for each property . Some do this. Some don't.

Marriott probably figured they could take everything foreclosed and come out ahead. They would get some bronze and lose money and get better seasons and make money on resale or rental. My guess is they will reevaluate  that decision but at least at one property they have nothing for sale as an HOA currently. I think that is the case for  most Marriott properties.Marriott forecloses not the HOA. Who knows how many of these Marriott still owns and what they are doing with them.


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## dioxide45 (Nov 21, 2010)

siberiavol said:


> At this time Marriott handles bad debts for most if not all HOA. It can take three years to do a judicial foreclosures.  A non judicial can be done in a year. After the foreclosures Marriott pays back the HOA all the bad debts and maintains ownership of the property.Thus there is a lag time in payback to HOA of the missed maintenance fees.



From reading about Beach Place Towers forclosure resale program, I don't know if this is true for all resorts. It seems if there is no mortgage lien on the week then Marriott does not take ownership of that week. It is up to the HOAs to dispose of that week. If their is a mortgage lien then Marriott would be foreclosing on the week and taking ownership. But if it is free of a mortgage then it is up to the HOA to do all the work. I wouldn't expect or think Marriott would take those weeks back and pay all back fees.


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## siberiavol (Nov 21, 2010)

dioxide45 said:


> From reading about Beach Place Towers forclosure resale program, I don't know if this is true for all resorts. It seems if there is no mortgage lien on the week then Marriott does not take ownership of that week. It is up to the HOAs to dispose of that week. If their is a mortgage lien then Marriott would be foreclosing on the week and taking ownership. But if it is free of a mortgage then it is up to the HOA to do all the work. I wouldn't expect or think Marriott would take those weeks back and pay all back fees.



It didn't have anything do do with mortgage or no mortgage at the property in question. It was related to people who didn't pay their maintenance fee. The GM didn't say that every single resort operates that way but I had the impression it was the norm. It clearly wasn't a one property thing. Again I don't know which do this and which don't. Before I had the same impression as you have  that everything non mortgage related was done by all the HOA in the system not Marriott. Remember Marriott was probably making  money on the deal because they would own the week for three years of maintenance and legal fees until the resale market crashed. THE dropping value of properties might be a reason for Marriott to pass things back to HOA

The GM was kind enough to explain how it worked at the property and had no reason to go into a detailed explanation explaining why the HOA wasn't stuck with a lot of inventory  unless it was true IMHO

I guess anyone could ask someone on the HOA board of directors or a GM how things are handled at their properties. I can only speak for the one . 
I am personally glad to know the HOA at this property has no inventory at this time.


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## siberiavol (Nov 22, 2010)

siberiavol said:


> It didn't have anything do do with mortgage or no mortgage at the property in question. It was related to people who didn't pay their maintenance fee. The GM didn't say that every single resort operates that way but I had the impression it was the norm. It clearly wasn't a one property thing. Again I don't know which do this and which don't. Before I had the same impression as you have  that everything non mortgage related was done by all the HOA in the system not Marriott. Remember Marriott was probably making  money on the deal because they would own the week for three years of maintenance and legal fees until the resale market crashed. THE dropping value of properties might be a reason for Marriott to pass things back to HOA
> 
> The GM was kind enough to explain how it worked at the property and had no reason to go into a detailed explanation explaining why the HOA wasn't stuck with a lot of inventory  unless it was true IMHO
> 
> ...



I check with what is done at another property and their HOA lets Marriott handle it. Perhaps it is up to each property.


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## pspercy (Nov 24, 2010)

GregT said:


> I've heard (unofficially) that MOC will be 8.3% increase.
> 
> I'm still waiting to see it on the website.
> 
> ...



Maybe State of Hawaii bumped up the property taxes again, like last year 

Still waiting for the word, they're late this year.


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## MikeM132 (Nov 25, 2010)

GregT said:


> I've heard (unofficially) that MOC will be 8.3% increase.
> 
> I'm still waiting to see it on the website.
> 
> ...



Wow. And that's 8.3 percent of about 1500.00 for me. MOC is getting too expensive for me. Nice, but had I to do over I would not have bought there.


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## jjking42 (Nov 25, 2010)

dougp26364 said:


> I can no longer validate owning such low value/high maintenance property. There is no resale value  and, even now I can find better value for my vacation dollar (Caribbean cruises can be had to less than my MF and include food, entertainment and twice daily cabin service as an example). If A staunch supporter of the timeshare vacation lifestyle is beginning to look at their ownership in this manner, I can only imagine what those who are feeling the financial crunch of a continued slow economy are thinking. I do fear the defaults this year will rise above those expected of many HOA/BOD's for high MF resorts such as Marriott.



That's exactly what i am thinking.
I was considereing buying another week but we decided to spend our money on a cruise instead. For the cost of the MF, Travel to resort, exchange fee, food. Its cheaper to go on a cruise now.  And no new MF to pay next year.

I own in two resorts that have very good HOA. They keep the cost under control and they maintain silver crown, and gold crown standards.

 The only one that bother me is my Marriottt legends edge. That is out of control on the MF.I will give them a chance to fix it but if we get double digit increase again I will sell it on ebay for 1.00

Luckily i paid cash for all my weeks and bought them resale. Never took a loss on one but MLE might be the first one.


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## Rickh (Nov 25, 2010)

I will be the first to admit that I have not done a very good job of tracking my historic maintenance costs at MOC, but my perception is that every year they routinely run above cost of living and/or inflation.  I fully understand that Hawaii is expensive, but every year there seems to be a new reason (cost of fuel, state taxes etc..).  I do know from looking at the MVCI web site that displays two years of history, that 2009 was $1622 and 2010 was $1692 (almost 5%) for a 2 bedroom in the orginal building at a time when the FED is concerned about deflation.

An 8.3% increase, if it happens, would be way out of line with just about every government measurement that is currently being reported.  

Am I incorrect in my perception of out of control maintenance fees at MOC.


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## Dave M (Nov 25, 2010)

Rickh said:


> I will be the first to admit that I have not done a very good job of tracking my historic maintenance costs at MOC, but my perception is that every year they routinely run above cost of living and/or inflation.


The average annual increase at MOC from 2001 through 2010 was 7.5%. The annual info (through 2008) is included in the Marriott MF historical database, which can be accessed from the FAQs (located at the top of the list of topics for this Marriott forum). Additional info - through 2011 fees - will be in the updated database that I expect to post within four to six weeks, depending on when most of the missing MF info for 2011 becomes available.


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## Rickh (Nov 25, 2010)

Dave

As usual, you are a wealth of very helpful information.  Thanks so much for clarifying this for us.  

Rick


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## dougp26364 (Nov 26, 2010)

Dave M said:


> The average annual increase at MOC from 2001 through 2010 was 7.5%. The annual info (through 2008) is included in the Marriott MF historical database, which can be accessed from the FAQs (located at the top of the list of topics for this Marriott forum). Additional info - through 2011 fees - will be in the updated database that I expect to post within four to six weeks, depending on when most of the missing MF info for 2011 becomes available.



That's a pretty high average increase per year. If they keep it up, despite the reasons given, it won't be long before many owners will no longer be able to afford those fee's. If they're $1,500 now, by 2016 they'll be $2,153 and by 2021 they'll be $5,032! 

Something is going to have to give in the next five years. It won't matter what the economy does. When MF's cap $5,000 for one week of timeshare, owners won't be able to validate paying those fee's and will begin to walk.


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## Dave M (Nov 26, 2010)

dougp26364 said:


> If they're $1,500 now, by 2016 they'll be $2,153 and by 2021 they'll be *$5,032*!


I think your calculator had too much to eat on Thanksgiving.    By 2021, at the historical 7.5% increase rate, the fees would be "only" $3,092, not $5,032.

Most Marriott timeshares don't approach that 7.5% average increase. Over the past 10 years, the average Marriott increase has been a bit over 5%. Although that's still significant, it appears that the increases from 2010 to 2011 are averaging significantly less than the historical percentage. That's a good thing.


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## jimf41 (Nov 26, 2010)

Dave M said:


> I think your calculator had too much to eat on Thanksgiving.



That was a funny line.


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## dougp26364 (Nov 26, 2010)

Dave M said:


> I think your calculator had too much to eat on Thanksgiving.    By 2021, at the historical 7.5% increase rate, the fees would be "only" $3,092, not $5,032.
> 
> Most Marriott timeshares don't approach that 7.5% average increase. Over the past 10 years, the average Marriott increase has been a bit over 5%. Although that's still significant, it appears that the increases from 2010 to 2011 are averaging significantly less than the historical percentage. That's a good thing.





Apparently it did. I miss my old charts but, wouldn't be using them all that often. Still, Ocean Pointe is going to have to slow down on the MF hits or the resort will get to a point where it's no longer affordable. 

I'm having the same/similar issues with Grand Chateau. Rate increases are going to lead to failure sooner rather than later if they don't slow it down.


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## winger (Nov 30, 2010)

Hold on - so my annual MF for Manor has the reserve fee of $188/unit x 52 intervals/yr = $9776/unit million/unit per year.

WHAT could they possibly be doing to spend $9776/year?  Even I do not spend this much in M/F's for my medium-sized home 

OK, this is a reserve fund...next year (2012) this about gets doubled (assuming nothing gets spent this year and the reserve fund amt stays the same for 2012.  The pot increases to over $18,000/unit. That is no small change.


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## Dave M (Dec 1, 2010)

The cost is high to redo the swimming pool and tennis courts, put on a new roof, gut virtually the entire unit every ten years, totally refurbish the unit every five years, renovate the outside premises from time to time and replace a variety of other parts of the resort when needed. And don't forget, the wear and tear on a timeshare with the many users who fail to treat it with the loving care that we exercise with our own homes is significant, requiring much more frequent replacements of everything from appliances to sofas.

The Boards of Directors for Marriott resorts generally do a nice job of projecting out over 20 to 25 years what the needed replacement expenditures will be. Go to a board meeting sometime and ask questions or ask to take a look at the replacement reserve capital expenditure projections.


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## dougp26364 (Dec 1, 2010)

Dave M said:


> The cost is high to redo the swimming pool and tennis courts, put on a new roof, gut virtually the entire unit every ten years, totally refurbish the unit every five years, renovate the outside premises from time to time and replace a variety of other parts of the resort when needed. And don't forget, the wear and tear on a timeshare with the many users who fail to treat it with the loving care that we exercise with our own homes is significant, requiring much more frequent replacements of everything from appliances to sofas.
> 
> The Boards of Directors for Marriott resorts generally do a nice job of projecting out over 20 to 25 years what the needed replacement expenditures will be. Go to a board meeting sometime and ask questions or ask to take a look at the replacement reserve capital expenditure projections.



While I understand it's expensive to keep resorts up, Marriott is by FAR the highest of the cash reserves of the timeshares we own. Grand Chateau 3 bedroom units this year have a cash reserve of $381.81. What amenities does Grand Chateau possible have that requires that high of a cash reserve? I'm all for quality but, compared to HGVC, which also maintains a very high standard and has far more amenites at it's LV Strip resort, this is an extremely high cash reserve funding charge. 

MGC has a smaller than average Marketplace, a swimming pool that holds less than 60 people, a small bar area that I don't believe serves food, a tiny hot tub and a fitness center. 

Now compare Ocean Pointe where there are four full sized swimming pools, three very large hot tubs, a childrens splash pool, very large outdoor pavilion, Pizza Hut Express, large Marketplace that with a Starbucks express, two fitness centers, mini golf, two bars, one of which serves food et....... Now consider that Ocean Pointe's MF is LESS than MGC's and, the cash reserve funding is ~$80 less per unit. 

I love my Marriott resorts but, when I compare them to each other and, especially when I compare them to other resorts, there's something not right. Quality does cost money. I just question the price Marriott has owners paying for that quality.


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## davemy (Dec 1, 2010)

*Grand Chateau/Beachplace*

The Maintance fee at Grand Chateau is higher than my beachplace timeshare now. Something is very wrong there. I would love to here from HOA President of Grand Chateau the reasoning on this. I wish he was a tugger like Eric M from Beachplace, He did a great job this year with a ZERO% increase.


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## billymach4 (Dec 1, 2010)

dougp26364 said:


> While I understand it's expensive to keep resorts up, Marriott is by FAR the highest of the cash reserves of the timeshares we own. Grand Chateau 3 bedroom units this year have a cash reserve of $381.81. What amenities does Grand Chateau possible have that requires that high of a cash reserve? I'm all for quality but, compared to HGVC, which also maintains a very high standard and has far more amenites at it's LV Strip resort, this is an extremely high cash reserve funding charge.
> 
> MGC has a smaller than average Marketplace, a swimming pool that holds less than 60 people, a small bar area that I don't believe serves food, a tiny hot tub and a fitness center.
> 
> ...



You would think that the Profit entities of a resort eg, Bar, Market Place, Restarants.... would support their own cash reserve.


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## dougp26364 (Dec 1, 2010)

billymach4 said:


> You would think that the Profit entities of a resort eg, Bar, Market Place, Restarants.... would support their own cash reserve.



So that cuts MGC down to a tiny pool, very small hot tub, fitness center, activities center (does anyone really do a family vacation in Vegas?) and owners lounge. 

I'm really at a loss over why MGC requires such a large cash reserve.


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## wof45 (Dec 1, 2010)

in the end, whatever cash reserve there is only gets spent renovating the rooms and the resort.  If there is not enough there, which is the usual case, there ends up being a special assessment, or else the resort gets pretty shaggy.

I wouldn't worry too much about the reserves, but would be happier that a special reserve won't be needed.


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## dougp26364 (Dec 2, 2010)

wof45 said:


> in the end, whatever cash reserve there is only gets spent renovating the rooms and the resort.  If there is not enough there, which is the usual case, there ends up being a special assessment, or else the resort gets pretty shaggy.
> 
> I wouldn't worry too much about the reserves, but would be happier that a special reserve won't be needed.



Oridinarilly I'd agree with you but, HGVC has resorts in similar areas of Vegas with similar quality but, they're have considerably lower cash reserve funding. They have had one small SA at the Flamingo resort location but, that wasn't high enough to equate to what MGC is putting into their cash reserves.

Even with Polo Towers very large SA, the overall average between cash reserve funding and the SA charge makes it look like a bargain compared to Marriott's funding.


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## suenmike32 (Dec 2, 2010)

dougp26364 said:


> Still, Ocean Pointe is going to have to slow down on the MF hits or the resort will get to a point where it's no longer affordable.



Your right Doug, our MF at OP in 2004 were $754.00 (2BR Plat OV)
I haven't received this years yet but I anticipate it to be over $1200.00
I believe I could rent in the same timeframe but get 1 week more for less than my MF. 
However...what's done is done. I just hope to keep enjoying OP until it gets totally out of control. Even then there's not a lot of options.
Mike


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## GaryDouglas (Dec 7, 2010)

*Ouch...*

With MOC MFs up over 8% for 2011, how do we feel now...?


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## MOXJO7282 (Dec 7, 2010)

GaryDouglas said:


> With MOC MFs up over 8% for 2011, how do we feel now...?


I'm not happy about it but owning a 2BDRM Maui Marriott is still a bargain compared to renting the same. I'm still renting my weeks for a premium so for the time being its still working. Now if it keeps increasing at that clip then we have big issues. I'll take a wait and see attitude and hope that next year the increases are much flatter.


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## wof45 (Dec 7, 2010)

MOXJO7282 said:


> I'm not happy about it but owning a 2BDRM Maui Marriott is still a bargain compared to renting the same. I'm still renting my weeks for a premium so for the time being its still working. Now if it keeps increasing at that clip then we have big issues. I'll take a wait and see attitude and hope that next year the increases are much flatter.



if the economy gets better in future years, so will your rentals if you are getting a premium in this bad economy.


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