# Interesting call from a SVN National Sales Rep



## ekinggill (Mar 25, 2011)

I befriended a national rep after my last trip to St. John but before I purchased a resale unit.  (As a national rep, he can sell at any SVN resort.)  He actually was really cool about sending me info even after he knew I had a resale under contract.

He called yesterday offering me 80% trade in credit on the purchase of a developer unit.  That's 80% of what the original purchaser of my unit paid.  He said they have never offered a program like this to resale owners at any time in his tenure with the company.

The new unit has to be priced at least $15K more than 100% of the original purchase price.  (ie if the original price of my unit was $15K, I could buy a different unit listed at $30K for my title + $18K).  

This doesn't appeal to me, as I bought what I want to use, but I found the concept interesting.

I don't know who they are offering this program to. I suspect they are only offering this trade in program to resale owners at high demand resorts and not ones you can pick up units on e-bay for a couple hundred bucks.  

Anyone else gotten a call like this?


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## YYJMSP (Mar 25, 2011)

If you look through the old posts like SDKath's path to 5* Elite, you'll see that they used to do these "upgrades" a long time ago...

Nice to see that they've resurrected that option.


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## pathways25 (Mar 25, 2011)

YYJMSP said:


> If you look through the old posts like SDKath's path to 5* Elite, you'll see that they used to do these "upgrades" a long time ago...
> 
> Nice to see that they've resurrected that option.



I don't think they ever stopped doing upgrades.  They stopped permitting retro's on upgrades.  When I attended an "Owner's update" last year, they told me that an upgrade has to bring in something like 12K of new money in order to be considered.


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## YYJMSP (Mar 25, 2011)

pathways25 said:


> I don't think they ever stopped doing upgrades.  They stopped permitting retro's on upgrades.  When I attended an "Owner's update" last year, they told me that an upgrade has to bring in something like 12K of new money in order to be considered.



Hmmm -- when we were in Maui last summer (seems like so long ago  ) we were told that we could only upgrade units that we had bought from the developer directly, not our resale units that were retro'ed back in to SVN (they marked them as having a purchase price of $0 on the owner details sheet).

They offered us 100% of the initial purchase price of our developer units as an upgrade against the current developer price of whatever they were currently selling at the same property.

In Palm Springs at Christmas they basically said the same thing (i.e. no trade-in value to the requalfied units, 100% credit of the original purchase price to the developer units).


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## Scott&Laura (Mar 25, 2011)

When we were at WKORV last fall we spent about an hour and a half with a really helpful agent.

She and her supervisor confirmed that Starwood would not do a sale unless they made a minimum of $15,000.00. That minimum as I understood is just a business decision. i know a lot of people may disagree.

Also the gal said every sales agent will have a blue sheet listing exactly what you bought, what you paid for it, and if it was from the developer or resale.

She made other comments I would have to go back and look at my notes, basically each agent has as much info on you as they can get. Some is used to break the ice and cozy up to you for a potential sale. The other is to let agent know if they might be wasting their time on someone.

the starnge thing is the developer ONLY credits you based on what you paid and not on what they are selling for. If you overpaid this comp's you somewhat, if you got a bargain---THE DEVELOPER WANTS more money.


Scott


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## YYJMSP (Mar 25, 2011)

Scott&Laura said:


> She and her supervisor confirmed that Starwood would not do a sale unless they made a minimum of $15,000.00. That minimum as I understood is just a business decision. i know a lot of people may disagree.



When we kept saying "no" in Palm Springs at Christmas, they kept offering lower priced inventory, all the way down to EOY off-season stuff going for around $10K -- basically, the salesperson was trying to make any kind of sale...



Scott&Laura said:


> the starnge thing is the developer ONLY credits you based on what you paid and not on what they are selling for. If you overpaid this comp's you somewhat, if you got a bargain---THE DEVELOPER WANTS more money.



This is what made no sense to us in Maui last year -- why would we trade in a $45K price credit from our 6year old pre-construction purchase against a current developer price of $100K+ to upgrade a view, lock-in a specific week, lower MFs, or whatever they were trying to use to justify the trade-in, etc?


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## oneohana (Mar 25, 2011)

Scott&Laura said:


> When we were at WKORV last fall we spent about an hour and a half with a really helpful agent.
> 
> She and her supervisor confirmed that Starwood would not do a sale unless they made a minimum of $15,000.00. That minimum as I understood is just a business decision. i know a lot of people may disagree.
> 
> ...



When we were at WMH last fall, we upgraded 2 eoy WLR developer weeks to 1 developer week. All in was around $11k and got to retro in another resale week. We'll be at WKORV in May and see what they have to offer for an upgrade.


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## YYJMSP (Mar 25, 2011)

oneohana said:


> When we were at WMH last fall, we upgraded 2 eoy WLR developer weeks to 1 developer week. All in was around $11k and got to retro in another resale week. We'll be at WKORV in May and see what they have to offer for an upgrade.



For $11K in new money, you also retro'ed a resale week?  Nice  -- we've all been told that they want $20K in new money to consider a retro...


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## Westin5Star (Mar 25, 2011)

I don't know how I have missed this option all these years.  I am excited if SVO is still offerring something like this.  I bought two EOY WPORV units direct for about $23k each ($46k total).  I am intersted in trading those for a WSJ 2BR loft or 3BR.

1.  Does anyone have experience or do you think that Starwood would allow for me to trade both of my EOY WPROV as part of a deal?

2.  If my original purchase price was $46k of the units and Starwood allowed it, what would be the minimum purchase price of a new WSJ?


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## YYJMSP (Mar 25, 2011)

Westin5Star said:


> I bought two EOY WPORV units direct for about $23k each ($46k total).  I am intersted in trading those for a WSJ 2BR loft or 3BR.



My understanding was that the property you wanted to upgrade had to be at the same property as the new purchase...


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## jerseygirl (Mar 25, 2011)

They change these rules all the time (I got as far as the welcome email, credit card charged ... then someone pulled the plug on a <tiny $> resale upgrade).  

Westin5Star -- I think they will let you do it ... unless they're enforcing the "same property" rule this week.  The issue will be price.  You'll need to spend more (how much more depends on the day!).  I think the worst case scenario would be allowing you to trade each EOY for an EOY at WSJ, provided you upspend (season, size, fix a week and unit, buy on annual and one EOY, etc).  Could be a small ripoff, but worth it if you can get the equity on your WPORV out of the deal.  I have two good names for WSJ sales reps -- both are nice -- one has follow-up skills and the other doesn't.  Send me a PM if you want them (I'd work with the one who has good follow-up skills -- I think he may be in National Sales in Orlando!).


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## Westin5Star (Mar 25, 2011)

JerseyGirl, thank you for your insight.  Hopefully this week SVO will allow this type of thing.  My WPORV EOY weeks are worth next to nothing on the resale market so upgrading to WSJ (hopefully Hillside mandatory) would be a great thing.  Please PM the contact information of the person that follows up.  I do not work with people that do not follow up.


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## grgs (Mar 25, 2011)

Scott&Laura said:


> Also the gal said every sales agent will have a blue sheet listing exactly what you bought, what you paid for it, and if it was from the developer or resale.



Not sure how they would know how much you paid for a resale unit?  That is not always public information.

Glorian


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## SDKath (Mar 25, 2011)

grgs said:


> Not sure how they would know how much you paid for a resale unit?  That is not always public information.
> 
> Glorian



All of my upgrades/retros were based on what the original person paid for the unit (not 80% but 100%).  Sounds like this is a bit of a step DOWN as far as I can see.

W5*, you should be able to upgrade your previous purchases to new units with 100% credit (since you bought them from Starwood to begin with).  I just upgraded some 2br SVR units to 2br LOs and retro'd an SDO.  That still works with their "new" rules.

Katherine


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## pathways25 (Mar 26, 2011)

SDKath said:


> All of my upgrades/retros were based on what the original person paid for the unit (not 80% but 100%).  Sounds like this is a bit of a step DOWN as far as I can see.
> 
> W5*, you should be able to upgrade your previous purchases to new units with 100% credit (since you bought them from Starwood to begin with).  I just upgraded some 2br SVR units to 2br LOs and retro'd an SDO.  That still works with their "new" rules.
> 
> Katherine



Wow!  Upgrades still work for retros?  What's the minimum that you have to put in to retro an upgrade?


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## SDKath (Mar 26, 2011)

pathways25 said:


> Wow!  Upgrades still work for retros?  What's the minimum that you have to put in to retro an upgrade?



$20k instead of the $10k of the past.


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## ocdb8r (Mar 26, 2011)

If someone actually gets the go ahead to upgrade a resale unit from one resort to a direct purchase at another resort, please PM me.  I contacted Jim Johnson in December and he told me absolutely no upgrades for resale units (at that time).  Just don't want to pester him again to get the same answer....

TIA


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## jarta (Mar 26, 2011)

ekinggill,   ...   "I befriended a national rep after my last trip to St. John but before I purchased a resale unit. (As a national rep, he can sell at any SVN resort.) He actually was really cool about sending me info even after he knew I had a resale under contract."

I just have to ask you because I am a skeptic and I don't believe everything I read on the Internet - How did you meet/befriend this SVN person and how do you know this "national rep" works for Starwood?

This scheme could be true but it seems nobody else has ever had an upgrade offer made to them on these terms.  Upgrades can and have recently occured, but the offer he made to you does not ring true to my recent experience.  Could you provide a little more information about this "national rep?"  If he agrees, maybe you could provide his phone number or his name or the resort he works out of?

There is another TUG thread (active yesterday) where phone callers said they were from Starwood's "platinum SVN office" and SVO - and they weren't.

Here's the link to that thread:  http://tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=14379   ...   eom


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## YYJMSP (Mar 26, 2011)

ocdb8r said:


> If someone actually gets the go ahead to upgrade a resale unit from one resort to a direct purchase at another resort, please PM me.  I contacted Jim Johnson in December and he told me absolutely no upgrades for resale units (at that time).  Just don't want to pester him again to get the same answer....
> 
> TIA



I believe that Jim's no longer in direct sales -- he's the "team leader" (I last spoke with him about a month ago)

I'll fire off a note to my national sales rep  and ask her about upgrades from resales to a developer purchase at another resort.


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## jarta (Mar 26, 2011)

YYJMSP,   ...   I specifically asked at an owners update at WKV on March 8 about upgrading and changing a recent WMH purchase into a developer resale purchase at WKV.  I was specifically told there are no "across resort lines" upgrades that are permitted by Starwood.

I was told I could upgrade my EOY Lagunamar week into an EY Lagunamar week and include the WMH week as a retro with the Lagunamar upgrade.  I passed on that.

The reason I explored the all the alternatives is that last November at WKV I was offered an EOY at Riverbend for $21,500 (plus a huge Starpoint discount purchase package).  However, I had nothing to retro at that time.  When I returned to WKV a few weeks ago I had the WMH week to retro but the price of the Riverbend EOY had jumped up to $28,500.  So, I decided to keep the WMH out of SVN until something better comes along.   ...   eom


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## Kildahl (Mar 26, 2011)

SDKath said:


> All of my upgrades/retros were based on what the original person paid for the unit (not 80% but 100%).  Sounds like this is a bit of a step DOWN as far as I can see.
> 
> W5*, you should be able to upgrade your previous purchases to new units with 100% credit (since you bought them from Starwood to begin with).  I just upgraded some 2br SVR units to 2br LOs and retro'd an SDO.  That still works with their "new" rules.
> 
> Katherine



Are you working on 6 or 7 star elite now?


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## SDKath (Mar 26, 2011)

Kildahl said:


> Are you working on 6 or 7 star elite now?



No but I had one more true platinum SDO resale that I didn't want to see go to waste so I retro'd it.  I am thinking of selling a couple of units (low SO, high MF ones anyway).  

FYI I always have more luck with the local sales office reps than the national call center, where they always say no to everything...

Katherine


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## Kildahl (Mar 26, 2011)

SDKath said:


> ......FYI I always have more luck with the local sales office reps than the national call center, where they always say no to everything...
> 
> Katherine



Same experience I have had recently. Just the opposite of several years ago.


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## SDKath (Mar 26, 2011)

Kildahl said:


> Same experience I have had recently. Just the opposite of several years ago.



So true.  I had a superb sales rep at the Orlando center until about 2 years ago when she left (or got laid off?) and since then it has been useless to call them.  That was right around the time of the 5* SOs being jacked up from 550,000 to 650,000ish.

On the other hand, the local offices are more willing to ask for exceptions from the powers that be to make a deal happen.  Hint hint.

Kath


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## YYJMSP (Mar 27, 2011)

jarta said:


> YYJMSP,   ...   I specifically asked at an owners update at WKV on March 8 about upgrading and changing a recent WMH purchase into a developer resale purchase at WKV.  I was specifically told there are no "across resort lines" upgrades that are permitted by Starwood.



That is consistent with what we were told last summer in Maui...


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## dakotafamily (Mar 27, 2011)

We recieved a call from our sales rep as well this week. He helped us get to our 5* Elite status in about 10 months several years ago by upgrading and retroing our units we bought resale. He mentioned a lot of what is said in this thread and he is helping our friends upgrade also. 

If anyone would like his name and number just PM and I will forward on his information to you.


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## YYJMSP (Mar 28, 2011)

*Trade-up/in details*

Got a response back from our sales rep, and she says that this is a brand new option (as of last week), and every deal is being done a case-by-case basis, but here are the general "rules" (not set in stone):

- you get a credit for 80% of the original Owner's paid price on your unit
- there must be $20K in new monies
- HRA can only be upgraded for HRA
- WLR can only be upgraded for WLR
- no upgrades in to properties that are "sold out" or low on inventory (essentially means you can only in trade in to SVR, SVV, WSJ, WKORVN and WPORV)
- all upgrades are up to the person in charge of the properties "number"
- they have not been successful in getting a 2-for-1 upgrade to happen (i.e. trading 2 units in for 1 unit) at WSJ
- Elite status will be reconsidered based on your ending SO combination


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## YYJMSP (Mar 28, 2011)

Kildahl said:


> Are you working on 6 or 7 star elite now?



Reminds me of the saleperson at WMH when were there at Christmas -- she made a comment along the lines of attaining "10 Star Elite", where she was equating the level of eliteness with the specific number of SVO intervals you owned...


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## YYJMSP (Mar 28, 2011)

SDKath said:


> FYI I always have more luck with the local sales office reps than the national call center, where they always say no to everything...



I've found it to be the other way around -- the locals keep going to the back room to their manager, who eventually comes out and won't budge on the rules, but will keep offering lower season/priced intervals to make some kind of sale.

Our national rep has been good about asking for (relatively small) exceptions to "the rules", and expediting things to make sure the process usually gets done pretty quickly and smoothly...


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## ocdb8r (Mar 29, 2011)

YYJMSP said:


> Got a response back from our sales rep, and she says that this is a brand new option (as of last week), and every deal is being done a case-by-case basis, but here are the general "rules" (not set in stone):
> 
> - you get a credit for 80% of the original Owner's paid price on your unit
> - there must be $20K in new monies
> ...



Well, this is just great...more fuel for my sickness.  I've been debating a WSJ purchase for some time and trading up might just be enough to push me over the edge.  I recently snagged a true plat SDO and was planning on ditching my SBP...now I've got to consider using it to updgrade and retro the SDO...UGH.

What would the experts in the room do?


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## Fredm (Mar 29, 2011)

ocdb8r said:


> Well, this is just great...more fuel for my sickness.  I've been debating a WSJ purchase for some time and trading up might just be enough to push me over the edge.  I recently snagged a true plat SDO and was planning on ditching my SBP...now I've got to consider using it to updgrade and retro the SDO...UGH.
> 
> What would the experts in the room do?



It all sounds pretty unstructured to me.
Who knows what they will allow you to do.

I would do nothing unless you had a firm commitment.


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## YYJMSP (Mar 29, 2011)

Fredm said:


> It all sounds pretty unstructured to me.
> Who knows what they will allow you to do.
> 
> I would do nothing unless you had a firm commitment.



Agreed -- it sounds like a trial offer, and they're still ironing out the details (i.e. see what the market allows them to get away with) before making any firm rules.


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## tomandrobin (Mar 29, 2011)

When we upgraded at WSJ, we got 100% of the original purchase price applied to our upgrade. We bought our first units off ebay for a steal.


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## Westin5Star (Mar 29, 2011)

I had emailed Jim Johnson who was promoted.  The email was forwarded to someone else that has been very helpful.  She let me know that I would get 100% of my purchase price back and that I had to spend $20k more.  They will not allow for me to trade 2 EOY units.  I will have to trade one of them and then sell the other on my own if I decide to do this.  Now the question for my family is which phase (mandatory vs. voluntary, old vs. new, April or November, 2BR or 3BR).  If I get a 3BR pool villa I will definitely want buildings 43 or 44 as I prefer the newer floor plan.  I may take a few weeks to consider my options on this.  If I act (which I think I will), I will let you all know what I decide to do and how it goes.


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## SDKath (Mar 29, 2011)

Westin5Star said:


> I had emailed Jim Johnson who was promoted.  The email was forwarded to someone else that has been very helpful.  She let me know that I would get 100% of my purchase price back and that I had to spend $20k more.  They will not allow for me to trade 2 EOY units.  I will have to trade one of them and then sell the other on my own if I decide to do this.  Now the question for my family is which phase (mandatory vs. voluntary, old vs. new, April or November, 2BR or 3BR).  If I get a 3BR pool villa I will definitely want buildings 43 or 44 as I prefer the newer floor plan.  I may take a few weeks to consider my options on this.  If I act (which I think I will), I will let you all know what I decide to do and how it goes.



If you are at all interested in being able to rent out your unit, I would opt for early April over November.  People don't travel much in the fall (except Thanksgiving of course) but most people want plans for a warm vacation for Spring Break after a long and snowy winter!

Good luck with your decision.  Let us know what you find out when you do the research.  

Katherine


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## Ken555 (Mar 29, 2011)

Westin5Star said:


> I had emailed Jim Johnson who was promoted.  The email was forwarded to someone else that has been very helpful.  She let me know that I would get 100% of my purchase price back and that I had to spend $20k more.  They will not allow for me to trade 2 EOY units.  I will have to trade one of them and then sell the other on my own if I decide to do this.  Now the question for my family is which phase (mandatory vs. voluntary, old vs. new, April or November, 2BR or 3BR).  If I get a 3BR pool villa I will definitely want buildings 43 or 44 as I prefer the newer floor plan.  I may take a few weeks to consider my options on this.  If I act (which I think I will), I will let you all know what I decide to do and how it goes.



Perhaps it's time to explore Hyatt or Hilton (I think we discussed this a year or two ago, and you were interested in a different brand... are you still looking at that option?). Of course, getting your $$ out of WPORV makes a lot of sense if you prefer WSJ. You'll always be able to trade into WPORV if you want to visit there.


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## rickandcindy23 (Mar 29, 2011)

I have never been on a Starwood sales presentation.  I have no intentions of ever going, either.  We own a lot of SBP and one EOY SDO, so I doubt they would do anything for us.  I got a little wild on eBay, but I promised I would stop buying SBP.  I don't even know why.   It was a frenzy.  

Seriously, I figure they wouldn't talk about upgrading us to any kind of elite.  We have rented some weeks and deposit the others.  I need to find a support group.


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## SDKath (Mar 30, 2011)

I have never seen a sales presentation by any timeshare company.  Yet here I am with Starwood, Marriott and Disney.  :ignore:  

Katherine


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## Westin5Star (Mar 30, 2011)

Katherine,
Thanks for the advice.  I really had thought we were going to go with the November timeframe as we already travel to HRA for our fixed week in late February.  I did some research and November is actually one of the worst rain months of the year in WSJ.  That along with your idea of rental demand in April is making me lean toward getting a week in April.


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## Westin5Star (Mar 30, 2011)

Ken,
I have not looked into Hyatt or Hilton lately but I know that my main issue with them in the past was locations.  It is ultimately why I chose Starwood for our TSs.  I love Hyatt hotels (especially in tropical locations) and we stay at them often.  I wish Hyatt would take over Starwood TSs.


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## DavidnRobin (Mar 30, 2011)

Westin5Star said:


> I had emailed Jim Johnson who was promoted.  The email was forwarded to someone else that has been very helpful.  She let me know that I would get 100% of my purchase price back and that I had to spend $20k more.  They will not allow for me to trade 2 EOY units.  I will have to trade one of them and then sell the other on my own if I decide to do this.  Now the question for my family is which phase (mandatory vs. voluntary, old vs. new, April or November, 2BR or 3BR).  If I get a 3BR pool villa I will definitely want buildings 43 or 44 as I prefer the newer floor plan.  I may take a few weeks to consider my options on this.  If I act (which I think I will), I will let you all know what I decide to do and how it goes.




Check out RedWeek - there are five 3Bd pool villas for under $25K (that includes a weeks 17-18, and weeks 40+) - and more every month it seems...


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## DeniseM (Mar 30, 2011)

Westin5Star said:


> Katherine,
> Thanks for the advice.  I really had thought we were going to go with the November timeframe as we already travel to HRA for our fixed week in late February.  I did some research and November is actually one of the worst rain months of the year in WSJ.  That along with your idea of rental demand in April is making me lean toward getting a week in April.



It's surprising, but there is not a huge rental market for WSJ.  If you don't want to visit WSJ every year - consider an EOY deed.


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## tomandrobin (Mar 30, 2011)

DeniseM said:


> It's surprising, but there is not a huge rental market for WSJ.  If you don't want to visit WSJ every year - consider an EOY deed.



I agree with both parts of this statement. 

Everyone wants to trade you for St John, but no one wants to rent it. 

On hindsight, I would have bought two EOY 3 bedroom units...same year. Traveling to St John is long and expensive. Since we always have friends and family traveling with us, having the two units EOY would work best. I may change my ownership to that one day, I got a price last time I was there. Just not ready to pay even more to Starwood.


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## Westin5Star (Mar 31, 2011)

I would rarely ever consider renting my WSJ timeshare; it would just be a nice option if something came up during my fixed week.  I would prefer to visit at least once a year but I agree that traveling to St. John is not the easiest thing; especially from Tahoe or SoCal.  Maybe two EY back to back would be the best thing???


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## Westin5Star (Mar 31, 2011)

I unfortunately just found out that the April (week 16) 3BR pool villa that I was considering at WSJ is in one of the older buildings (41 or 42).  After being in both units, I much prefer 43 or 44 for the floorplan / layout.  Back to the drawing board.


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## DavidnRobin (Mar 31, 2011)

Westin5Star said:


> I unfortunately just found out that the April (week 16) 3BR pool villa that I was considering at WSJ is in one of the older buildings (41 or 42).  After being in both units, I much prefer 43 or 44 for the floorplan / layout.  Back to the drawing board.



I agree about the Buildings - as to traveling to STJ from CA - Man-up!


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## ekinggill (Mar 31, 2011)

*...and for Jarta's edification*

It is not hard to befriend people.  Treat them with respect and deal honestly with them and it is amazing how nice people will be...even sales people.

Don Dalgleish was great to work with.  I really was looking to buy in a specific week and he was super helpful.  When I found a resale in the week I wanted for a fraction of what he could sell it to me for, he acknowledge I would be crazy to buy from him.   After that he continued to help me answer questions about SVN, gave me phone number, etc.

The way I see it, there are two kinds of developer deals in the timeshare world...the guy who makes the emotional decision while still on his vacation (ie the guy who gets taken advantage of) and the deal that is well thought out, on no fixed time table, and most likely, the deal that is sold by the salesman who has invested a little in the relationship.  National sales are ALL the latter kind.  

I'm young and someday, years from now, I might make that one big purchase where I retro some resale properties.  If that happens, there is no question I would call Don.  Seems worth his twice a year e-mail or how you doing call.


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## jarta (Mar 31, 2011)

*For ekinggill's edification.*

The moment I saw the posts by dakotafamily and 5Star that seemed to back up your post about "cross resort lines" upgrades now being OK, on March 28 I emailed the Quality Assurance Manager (Starwoodese for Boss of Bosses concerning Sales) at my home resort and copied my Sales Associate (whom I also have befriended - we play golf together and never mention timeshares on the golf course).  In the 3 days that have gone by since my email I have had no response that indicates "cross resort upgrades" are a possibility.  (I also have not been informed they are not possible.)

All I have gotten is something like "we are still checking and will let you know if your requested inventory is available."  I had asked about acquiring a WSJ 3-br pool villa or a Platinum WSJ fixed event week 2-br loft and/or a Platinum Riverfront fixed event week 2-br for upgrading/turning in my recently acquired Platinum WMH 2-br.  

80% of the price paid by the seller I acquired the WMH unit from should amount to a credit of about $28,000.  Plus, Starwood had tried to acquire the unit I acquired by exercising it's ROFR (it just exercised it too late) so I know Starwood is interested in acquiring WMH Platinum inventory for developer resales because WDW Platinum is now sold out and Starwood needs Platinum inventory in the desert.  (I could also get a credit of about $50,000 for upgrading my Platinum 3-br at Harborside that I acquired on the secondary market.) 

If I get an indication that "cross resort upgrades" are indeed possible, I will be back on TUG with that information and plenty of kudos for you in smoking out a new, useful way to work the Starwood system.  But, it hasn't happened yet.

In the meantime, Don will now get lots and lots of calls.  

BTW, befriending happens on TUG all the time.  I will be in a 3-br pool villa at WSJ later this month of a TUG friend.  The owner and family will be using my 3-br reservation at Harborside.  The friendship that has developed is not limited to trading units     ...   eom


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## YYJMSP (Mar 31, 2011)

ekinggill said:


> It is not hard to befriend people.  Treat them with respect and deal honestly with them and it is amazing how nice people will be...even sales people.
> 
> Don Dalgleish was great to work with.  I really was looking to buy in a specific week and he was super helpful.  When I found a resale in the week I wanted for a fraction of what he could sell it to me for, he acknowledge I would be crazy to buy from him.   After that he continued to help me answer questions about SVN, gave me phone number, etc.
> 
> The way I see it, there are two kinds of developer deals in the timeshare world...the guy who makes the emotional decision while still on his vacation (ie the guy who gets taken advantage of) and the deal that is well thought out, on no fixed time table, and most likely, the deal that is sold by the salesman who has invested a little in the relationship.  National sales are ALL the latter kind.



Agreed -- we've established a relationship with our rep over the last ~15 months, and she goes out of her way to make sure we're happy, kept up-to-date, everything is going OK, etc, even when there isn't a pending deal on the table.


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## YYJMSP (Mar 31, 2011)

Westin5Star said:


> I had emailed Jim Johnson who was promoted.  The email was forwarded to someone else that has been very helpful.  She let me know that I would get 100% of my purchase price back and that I had to spend $20k more



Was that for a purchase you made directly from the developer, or for a resale?

Last summer, we were offered 100% credit on units we purchased from the developer and nothing for resale units.

The 80% credit I assume is the new thing that applies to resale units.


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## YYJMSP (Mar 31, 2011)

jarta said:


> If I get an indication that "cross resort upgrades" are indeed possible, I will be back on TUG with that information and plenty of kudos for you in smoking out a new, useful way to work the Starwood system.  But, it hasn't happened yet.



Our rep had indicated that she was aware of one such cross-property trade-in/upgrade that had been successful; however, she stated that there were no rules set in stone for this type of transaction and each situation was being individually evaluated.


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## YYJMSP (Apr 1, 2011)

YYJMSP said:


> Was that for a purchase you made directly from the developer, or for a resale?
> 
> Last summer, we were offered 100% credit on units we purchased from the developer and nothing for resale units.
> 
> The 80% credit I assume is the new thing that applies to resale units.



Our sales rep confirms that developer purchased units get 100% credit and resale purchased units get 80% towards trade-in/upgrade.


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## gravitar (Apr 1, 2011)

YYJMSP said:


> Our sales rep confirms that developer purchased units get 100% credit and resale purchased units get 80% towards trade-in/upgrade.



80% of the original developer sale price, of the current sale price or of what the current owner paid on the resale market?

Steve


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## jarta (Apr 1, 2011)

YYJSMP,   ...   Does that apply to "cross resort lines" upgrades?  Upgrades at the same resort as the week already owned have long been possible with 80% (for resales) or 100% (for developer-purchased units) credits being applied to the upgraded purchase price.

"Cross resort lines" upgrades, i.e., HRA "upgraded" with a turn-in of that HRA week and the purchase (after crediting for the turn-in) of a new week at WSJ, is the only part of the OP's post that might be "new."

Still no word from my Starwood gurus about whether it's possible now.  IMO, granting a credit for "cross resort lines" upgrades would be the most obvious way to "jump start" increased resale prices at Starwood voluntary resorts.  But, the 80% seems too high a credit.  Hoping (against hope?), however, it is true.    ...   eom


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## YYJMSP (Apr 1, 2011)

gravitar said:


> 80% of the original developer sale price, of the current sale price or of what the current owner paid on the resale market?
> 
> Steve



If the unit you're trying to use is a resale, you get 80% of what the original owner paid to purchase it from the developer as a credit against the trade-in/upgrade.

If the unit you're trying to use is a direct developer purchase, you get 100% of what you paid to purchase it from the developer as a credit against the trade-in/upgrade.


The primary problem I see with this whole trade-in/upgrade is that you are getting a credit based on old (lower) prices against today's (higher) prices, some of which are more than twice what they used to be.


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## YYJMSP (Apr 1, 2011)

jarta said:


> YYJSMP,   ...   Does that apply to "cross resort lines" upgrades?  Upgrades at the same resort as the week already owned have long been possible with 80% (for resales) or 100% (for developer-purchased units) credits being applied to the upgraded purchase price.



We've always been offered 0% (resales) and 100% (developer) as a credit towards an upgrade (at the same property, with at least $20K in new money).  From our experiences, the 80% (resales) is new.



jarta said:


> "Cross resort lines" upgrades, i.e., HRA "upgraded" with a turn-in of that HRA week and the purchase (after crediting for the turn-in) of a new week at WSJ, is the only part of the OP's post that might be "new."
> 
> Still no word from my Starwood gurus about whether it's possible now.  IMO, granting a credit for "cross resort lines" upgrades would be the most obvious way to "jump start" increased resale prices at Starwood voluntary resorts.  But, the 80% seems too high a credit.  Hoping (against hope?), however, it is true.    ...   eom



My understanding from our sales rep is that she is working on 3 pending deals for cross-resort trade-in/upgrades (2 are using developer units with the 100% credit, 1 is using a resale to trade-in/upgrade in with 80% credit to WSJ), and will let us know what ends up happening, so that we're aware of possibilities with our own units...


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## Robin&Mark (Apr 3, 2011)

We had asked the same question in November of trading one unit in one location for another unit is a different location and were told no they do not trade units between properties.


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## YYJMSP (Apr 3, 2011)

Robin&Mark said:


> We had asked the same question in November of trading one unit in one location for another unit is a different location and were told no they do not trade units between properties.



The cross-property trade-in/upgrade ability is supposedly new as of just a few weeks ago...


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## Robin&Mark (Apr 4, 2011)

Thank you, we will be back in WSJ this summer and see what we can find out, appreciate the information!


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## YYJMSP (Apr 4, 2011)

*Update on cross-property trade-in/upgrades*

Got a note from our sales rep, and she says:

_in regards to the 3 cross property upgrades I ‘was’ working on last week, only one of them has been submitted and is awaiting an answer. The other 2 people have decided to hold off or not go through with an upgrade at all.  Also, we’ve been getting some feedback from our resort sales teams, on my office’s ability to ‘seek’ approvals to do these cross property upgrades, and I wanted to let you know (since I know you have sent me two of these owners) that my office is currently the ‘only team’ seeking approvals to do cross property upgrades at this particular point in time.  The company is trying to see if this avenue will be cost effective enough to introduce and train all of our resort sales teams on this aspect; plus implement the necessary changes that would have to be made within our inventory system (so each resort would have fast access to the info they would need).  Since all of the company’s functions happen here at the Operations Center, my office was an easy choice to start with._


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## Ken555 (Apr 4, 2011)

Sounds like a great reason for owners (direct and resale) to have a reason for an update meeting. It would be very smart of SVN to offer flexible purchase options in order to get more sales, and I suspect this would be an excellent way of increasing incremental sales from a group of owners who would otherwise not normally consider a direct purchase.


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## clsmit (Apr 4, 2011)

And as someone who happened to do her last 2 updates at quarter end (not at all on purpose!), they seem even more willing to deal if you work with them on the 31st of the month! :rofl:


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## pointsjunkie (Apr 8, 2011)

i spoke with someone form starwood to ask if i could trade in some of my SVV for another resort in AZ or CA and after a week of investigating she said it is NOT possible. of course the usual upgrade to a better season and larger unit was available but that is not what i wanted.


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## jarta (Apr 8, 2011)

barbra,   ...   I was told earlier this week that you can upgrade a week at a Starwood resort to a week at another Starwood resort in 3 States:  Caifornia, Colorado and Florida.  Something particular to State law in those States.  (I was told that.  I did not check the laws.)

However, I was also told a Florida unit can only be upgraded to another Florida unit; a Colorado unit can only be upgraded to another Colorado unit and a California unit can only be upgraded to another California unit.

Thus, "cross resort line" upgrades are possible for units owned in these 3 States, *but* there are no "cross State line" upgrades which are possible and Starwood will not permit them, i.e. upgrading an SVR or SVV week to a WSJ or WDW or Riverfront or HRA week.

So, I ended up executing a Term Sheet earlier this week  to do an upgrade from a Platinum EOY 2-br at Lagunamar to a Platinum OS EY 2-br at Lagunamar (a deeded week 7 float but can "fix" later for 10%).  

The price of the OS Lagunamar unit was $45k.  I was given 100% credit for the purchase of the EOY 3 years ago for $21,500 (lower price these days but I bought the EOY Lagunamar to retro a Platinum EY HRA 3-br because the 5 Star SO requirement was going up - as it did - 3 days later).  So, my out of pocket cost to upgrade to OS Lagunamar will be $23,500.

The OS Lagunamar upgrade includes a retro of a EY Platinum WMH 2-br I recently purchased for $3k (Fredm beat back the attempt to exercize the ROFR).  It also includes 30k Starpoints for upgrading.  Plus, it includes the right to purchase 6 separate 80k blocks of Starpoints for $1,550 each (1.94 cents per Starpoint) or 480k Starpoints.  I think that right to purchase is itself worth around $5k (but I'll have to spend the $9,300 to get the full benefit).  However, I think I can make good use of the Starpoints I will be purchasing.  lol!

I have concluded that all the noise on this thread about "cross resort line" upgrades to WSJ is just that - noise.  (I could be wrong.  I have been before.)  But, there were only a handful of Platinum OS units in weeks 5-21 left at Lagunamar and I didn't want to take the chance of letting the only deeded week 7 OS left at Lagunamar in buildings 1 or 9 get away.  

BTW, only the tier of 8 OS units each in buildings 1 and 9 are currently on the market.  Sales started about 2 months ago.  The tier of 8 OS units in building 14 are not yet being sold.   ... eom


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## pointsjunkie (Apr 8, 2011)

if you convert those starpoints during the summer when Usair or AA has their additional % promotion (like we both did last summer) then you would get a real bang for that $9300. just book a few 1st class tickets and it paid for itself and you will still have many miles for future flights.

and with the price of coach tickets today. uses 25000 miles with AA for a coach rtp costing $784 so that also can get you many trips.


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## spuppy (Apr 9, 2011)

Here is some info on my experience with cross unit upgrade:

For more than a week, I had been working with a friendly sales person (contact info provided by Westing5Star--thanks!) at the corporate office to do an upgrade of my Maui week to a Christmas Ski Week.  I was told that Westin Beaver Creek is sold out, but that a single Christmas Week 3 BR at Sheraton Steamboat had become available "due to a purchaser’s contractual obligation not being met".  

I was told:
* this was a new program
* it is "available on a case by case basis", 
* starwood is "only considering 1 for 1 (trading 1 interest for 1 interest)", 
* I would be credited 100% of my original purchase price, 
* that I had to spend at least $20,000 more
* that I needed to get VP approval because the steamboat week was the last available ski week at Steamboat.  

The new purchase for the christmas ski week was $67,900, which was slightly more than $20,000 over what I paid for Maui. Over the last week and a half, I received regular updates from the sales person as the process moved from local inventory manager to the East Regional VP of Sales and finally the West Regional VP of Sales who, I was told, did not approve because it is "the only week available and they will sell it out right ".  

So, in the end, I was unable to upgrade, but it would seem that the cross-unit upgrade process exists, though you never know for certain what is happening behind the scenes.


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## clsmit (Apr 9, 2011)

And it does seem that the East Coast team (in Orlando) and the West Coast team (I think based at WMH) don't work together much, if at all. So if you want to be bi-coastal with an upgrade, good luck!


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