# "Value" of Hawaii Collection points versus U.S. Collection



## BruceGO (Mar 18, 2017)

We have been accumulating points in Diamond Resorts International (DRI) and are close to Platinum level.  We initially owned U.S. points, but a few years ago in Maui were "encouraged" to add Hawaii points and convert our U.S. points.  More recently in Las Vegas, we were "encouraged" to add U.S. points and convert our Hawaii points (benefit: "deeded" ownership and less exposure to big maintenance fee hikes).

Having just returned from an "owners update" in Maui, we're contemplating their "advice" to buy the remaining points needed for Platinum and convert all our existing points to Hawaii at $1.30 per point for the ones that were not originally bought there ... Hawaii points would supposedly provide better visibility to resort accommodations everywhere and bring a better return if we ever tried to sell them on the resale market down the road.

We've always taken anything from an "owners update" with a huge grain of salt, and have struggled to distinguish valid information from smoke and mirrors.  Can anyone comment on the intrinsic value of Hawaii points versus U.S. Collection points (beyond the 13-month booking window consideration, etc.)?  Also, what's a reasonable price to pay for points in Hawaii versus the U.S. (presumably much less than the $8-10 "list price")?


----------



## clifffaith (Mar 18, 2017)

I guess everyone is being polite and not screaming "What the heck are you thinking?!" We fell for the moving points between collections several times. There is no value to DRI points beyond how you use what you own to enjoy vacations. There is no resale market. We were platinum, and paid DRI $500 to take back our 30,000 US points. We kept our 25,000 Hawaii points because we do go to KBC every year and I am too spoiled to stay in anything less than a deluxe ocean view. Check out the (at least) three Facebook Diàmond groups and be prepared to be advised to hold on to your money. FYI, we were offered more Hawaii points in January at $3.90 which of course was the  "special price freeze" held for us since our last sit down (at which we bought more points and then rescinded after finding TUG that evening).


----------



## rickandcindy23 (Mar 18, 2017)

clifffaith said:


> I guess everyone is being polite and not screaming "What the heck are you thinking?!" We fell for the moving points between collections several times. There is no value to DRI points beyond how you use what you own to enjoy vacations. There is no resale market. We were platinum, and paid DRI $500 to take back our 30,000 US points. We kept our 25,000 Hawaii points because we do go to KBC every year and I am too spoiled to stay in anything less than a deluxe ocean view. Check out the (at least) three Facebook Diàmond groups and be prepared to be advised to hold on to your money. FYI, we were offered more Hawaii points in January at $3.90 which of course was the  "special price freeze" held for us since our last sit down (at which we bought more points and then rescinded after finding TUG that evening).



So Faith, how many points does it take for one week at KBC for deluxe ocean view, and what are the fees for that week?  We have an oceanfront view at a very ordinary place, but it's 40 feet from the water, and that is truly the attraction for us.  We bought the view we absolutely couldn't live without.  Our 2 bed, 2 bath is $1,650 per week, and we own three weeks.  I have been able to rent the years we don't use them ourselves, so I don't have to deposit the weeks.  I could never deposit my weeks into II or RCI.  It would make me crazy.


----------



## artringwald (Mar 19, 2017)

BruceGO said:


> We have been accumulating points in Diamond Resorts International (DRI) and are close to Platinum level.  We initially owned U.S. points, but a few years ago in Maui were "encouraged" to add Hawaii points and convert our U.S. points.  More recently in Las Vegas, we were "encouraged" to add U.S. points and convert our Hawaii points (benefit: "deeded" ownership and less exposure to big maintenance fee hikes).
> 
> Having just returned from an "owners update" in Maui, we're contemplating their "advice" to buy the remaining points needed for Platinum and convert all our existing points to Hawaii at $1.30 per point for the ones that were not originally bought there ... Hawaii points would supposedly provide better visibility to resort accommodations everywhere and bring a better return if we ever tried to sell them on the resale market down the road.
> 
> We've always taken anything from an "owners update" with a huge grain of salt, and have struggled to distinguish valid information from smoke and mirrors.  Can anyone comment on the intrinsic value of Hawaii points versus U.S. Collection points (beyond the 13-month booking window consideration, etc.)?  Also, what's a reasonable price to pay for points in Hawaii versus the U.S. (presumably much less than the $8-10 "list price")?



If you check the resale market, you'll find that U.S. and Hawaii points are both worth the same... $0. People can't give them away, and then have to pay $250 to DRI to take them back. DRI makes good money convincing people to convert U.S. to Hawaii and Hawaii to U.S. Don't believe anything you hear in a presentation.


----------



## clifffaith (Mar 19, 2017)

rickandcindy23 said:


> So Faith, how many points does it take for one week at KBC for deluxe ocean view, and what are the fees for that week?  We have an oceanfront view at a very ordinary place, but it's 40 feet from the water, and that is truly the attraction for us.  We bought the view we absolutely couldn't live without.  Our 2 bed, 2 bath is $1,650 per week, and we own three weeks.  I have been able to rent the years we don't use them ourselves, so I don't have to deposit the weeks.  I could never deposit my weeks into II or RCI.  It would make me crazy.



We usually go in January and it takes 11,500 for a one bedroom for a week. Maintenance fees were $4800 this year on 24,500 points.


----------



## BruceGO (Mar 19, 2017)

clifffaith said:


> I guess everyone is being polite and not screaming "What the heck are you thinking?!" We fell for the moving points between collections several times. There is no value to DRI points beyond how you use what you own to enjoy vacations. There is no resale market. We were platinum, and paid DRI $500 to take back our 30,000 US points. We kept our 25,000 Hawaii points because we do go to KBC every year and I am too spoiled to stay in anything less than a deluxe ocean view. Check out the (at least) three Facebook Diàmond groups and be prepared to be advised to hold on to your money. FYI, we were offered more Hawaii points in January at $3.90 which of course was the  "special price freeze" held for us since our last sit down (at which we bought more points and then rescinded after finding TUG that evening).


Aloha.  Your timely response is much appreciated.  It confirmed what we had just decided - that we would simply end this crazy back and forth process, be satisfied with the points we have now, and learn to make the most of them ... there's no particular advantage for us New Englanders in having Hawaii as our "home" collection.  So we exercised our right of rescission, and now have a better understanding of why DRI changed their motto from the friendlier "Relaxation Simplified" to the much more ominous "Stay Vacationed" - whether you want to or not.  We're curious as to why you sold back your U.S. points - perhaps the maintenance fees were too onerous, and you had verified for yourselves that "there is no resale market".  Mahalo.


----------



## BruceGO (Mar 19, 2017)

artringwald said:


> If you check the resale market, you'll find that U.S. and Hawaii points are both worth the same... $0. People can't give them away, and then have to pay $250 to DRI to take them back. DRI makes good money convincing people to convert U.S. to Hawaii and Hawaii to U.S. Don't believe anything you hear in a presentation.


Sometimes the truth is hard to swallow - especially given the wonderful "alternative facts" sales people would have us believe.  Unfortunately, it's taken us (and presumably many others) several presentations to fully realize what you say.  Thank you.


----------



## clifffaith (Mar 19, 2017)

BruceGO said:


> We're curious as to why you sold back your U.S. points - perhaps the maintenance fees were too onerous, and you had verified for yourselves that "there is no resale market".  Mahalo.



Cliff got tired of me having a meltdown every January when $11K in maintenance fees were due. Last Feb./Mar. I started doing research and found TUG, and he found three Diamond groups on Facebook. So in addition to finding out that folks couldn't give DRI away, let alone sell it, we discovered the thread here about the give back program and divested ourselves of two US contracts. We kept points in Hawaii to book 13 months out, and no problem booking our yearly trips to Sedona and Santa Fe at 10 months. We "know" we are going to get nailed with a shoreline reclamation assessment because of the erosion at KBC; we paid $4K for water intrusion at Poipu, and I think owned half the Hawaii points that we do now.


----------



## BruceGO (Mar 19, 2017)

Very interesting, Faith - and quite understandable.  Yes, we saw the erosion at KBC when we were there week before last.  We asked our DRI "updater" about it with reference to the water intrusion at Poipu ... he said they now have insurance to cover such issues so the owners don't get ding'd with assessments - but that too may be an "alternative fact".


----------



## Beckers66 (Jul 1, 2017)

Thank you for this review. I am contemplating converting my US Collection (multiple contracts) to Hawaii because I was getting such a great deal and great trading power.  I am thinking I should back out of the deal.


----------



## clifffaith (Jul 1, 2017)

Beckers66 said:


> Thank you for this review. I am contemplating converting my US Collection (multiple contracts) to Hawaii because I was getting such a great deal and great trading power.  I am thinking I should back out of the deal.




I'd suggest not engaging DRI on turning US into Hawaii. They want to sell you something instead of nothing, and the flip flopping between Collections is just a way for a sales person to get into your wallet.  We haven't traded with II or RCI for years, but at 10 months out you can book Hawaii with your US points and presumably can trade that. BTW, we always go to Hawaii during whale season in late Jan/early Feb and book those in late December 13 months out.  However from time to time I check to see what is available at other times of the year and always see availability, often ocean view, sometimes ocean front.


----------



## Beckers66 (Jul 1, 2017)

Great advice, Thank you.


----------

