# Talk me out of buying Westin Kaanapali (or not)



## HHDutchy (Jan 18, 2021)

I’m currently at the Westin kaanapali. It’s our favorite. We have an OF for 10 days. It’s incredible.

I‘ve considered buying here for some time. I went to the owner update today and it got me thinking again. I’ve outlined what I own, what was offered, and then my questions are at the end.

What I currently own:
Westin Aventuras - 44000 SO - $800 annual (developer)
Westin Kierland - 37000 SO - $700 annual (resale)

What was offered:
Buyback Aventuras for $16000
Retro my Kierland
2bd - OV - every other year - $21000 after 20% COVID discount
       Regular price was $42k for OV and $49k for OF btw

Our response: Declined the offer!

Offered vacation package:
5 nights in 2bed Nanea (resort view) + 100000 Bonvoy - $2100

Our response: interested, let me get back to you within 24 hours.

This got me thinking if I’m willing to spend $2k to come to Nanea, why not “invest“ that into a resale unit at the North property?


What I would want:
2 bedroom unit
- Would consider renting out the Studio to help cover annual fees
- Would consider splitting the unit to use 1 bed with kids one year; studio with just the wife the other year.
Every other year: don’t want to commit to HI every year but technically could make every year happen with the scenario above
OV or OF
North preferred (I think)


Sell (or basically giveaway) Kierland to reduce annual maintenance fee burden.
Keep Aventuras - 44000 SO or trade in iI once on a while

My questions: 
Is $2k reasonable expected rental income for the Studio OF? How about OV?
How are the OV units in the South?
What building numbers are considered OV at the North property?
Listings show a wider range for maintain ace fees for 2bed - $1240 to over $1500 - why?
Find a 2bed with lowest possible fees with the view I’m after, right?
OF - $10-13k. Does that seem reasonable? Could I offer less and possibly get it?
OV - $7500-10k. Does that seem reasonable?

How could the Marriot merger devalue this purchase?
In my view the merger could strip mandatory status (or limit resales in some other screwy way) in the future, so possibly best to purchase now? I don’t see much of a downside.

If I was interested in spending $2k to come to Nanea for 5 nights, why not go all in and buy a resale?


I’m somewhat new to resales and timesharing; consequently, I have greatly valued reading through this forum. Thanks in advance for your feedback.


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## Henry M. (Jan 18, 2021)

I own at WKORV, both North and the original property (aka South). I love it here.

i would rather buy a resale unit at either property than Nanea. Nanea is a voluntary property and will lose a lot of value if purchased from the developer. Voluntary means that whoever buys it resale can't exchange into resorts that are not part of the Flex program Nanea is in.  I've lost track of which resorts are included.

Nanea does not have lock offs. They also have a limited number of 1BR units so you end up either using a 2BR or exchanging into the other properties next door. Might as well own in one of them to begin with.

Maintenance fees for most units in the South property are currently around $2445/yr for every year usage. North costs $2737/yr. it is about half that for EOY ownership. They tend to go up a few percent every year.

Maintenance fees are based on square footage and specific property. There are some corner OF units in the South property that are a bit larger and have larger maintenance fees.

i like both North and South. The advantage of North is that both the Studio and 1BR have la AIS (balconies). The Studios in South only have a railing outside a sliding glass door (a Juliette balcony). This is no big deal when using the 2BR, but using the Studio alone is better in the North property.  The South 1BR are slightly larger than at North, and they also have standalone 1BR. North has the Pailolo bar that I like better than Auntie's in the South property. South has better snorkeling right in front of it, and the beaches just south of the park are nicer to bathe in because the reef ends right around the park. North is closer to Dukes and the Times Market.

All in all, both are great. I tend to prefer North these days, but if I had small children, the slide and pool in South might be better. You won't go wrong with either one.
i haven't priced anything lately, but a couple of years ago, OV was somewhere around the mid teens and OF was in the high teens or low $20's for every year ownership. Half of that for EOY.

Rental income depends from the view but is less than $2k for a Studio, a little over for the 1BR for OV. It is a bit under $4k for a 2BR unit. You might be able to find renters for a little more if you work hard at it, but I wouldn't count on it. Look at redweek.com or https://www.denisetravels.com/westinmaui.htm. Prices are pretty depressed near term, because of COVID.


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## vacationtime1 (Jan 18, 2021)

Henry M. said:


> I own at WKORV, both North and the original property (aka South). I love it here.
> 
> i would rather buy a resale unit at either property than Nanea. Nanea is a voluntary property and will lose a lot of value if purchased from the developer. Voluntary means that whoever buys it resale can't exchange into resorts that are not part of the Flex program Nanea is in.  I've lost track of which resorts are included.
> 
> ...



^^^^^ This is excellent advice.

My suggestion is that OP should think about buying eoy OF at WKORVN, resale of course.  OP is already spoiled on the oceanfront view (I own OF and understand exactly why).  OF at North is much less expensive than OF at South and there are many more eoy OF's at North.


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## HHDutchy (Jan 18, 2021)

vacationtime1 said:


> ^^^^^ This is excellent advice.
> 
> My suggestion is that OP should think about buying eoy OF at WKORVN, resale of course.  OP is already spoiled on the oceanfront view (I own OF and understand exactly why).  OF at North is much less expensive than OF at South and there are many more eoy OF's at North.



Thanks for your feedback. 

Spoiled on OF for sure and 6th floor.


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## zentraveler (Jan 18, 2021)

vacationtime1 said:


> OF at North is much less expensive than OF at South (and there are many more eoy OF's at North).



I don't want to hijack this thread in any way since HHDutchy so eloquently and specifically posted his question ( this is related), but why is OF North much less expensive that OF South? There seem to be more  OF units in North and having stayed there in the past (we do not own there although there now) am very curious as to why it would be less desirable (i.e. less expensive).


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## HHDutchy (Jan 18, 2021)

zentraveler said:


> I don't want to hijack this thread in any way since HHDutchy so eloquently and specifically posted his question ( this is related), but why is OF North much less expensive that OF South? There seem to be more  OF units in North and having stayed there in the past (we do not own there although there now) am very curious as to why it would be less desirable (i.e. less expensive).



I‘m interested to hear as well. I suspect because those end units in the South are super close to the ocean. Our current unit is OF (building 5) but it is a ways from the ocean. I also believe the units are larger there. Waiting for experts to chime in.


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## EnglishmanAbroad (Jan 18, 2021)

There are some 'bad' OF units at WKORVN e.g. low floors building 5 behind the bar but no 'bad' OF at WKORV as all are truly OF. As for studio rental I'd say $2K is extremely ambitious and I'd go as far as to say don't bank on being able to rent a studio, it's very hit and miss even in peak weeks.


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## TravelTime (Jan 18, 2021)

I would not recommend buying. I am a WKOVRN owner with oceanfront view. Why pay so much in upfront costs when you can have the flexibility of staying wherever you want for the same price without handing over tens of thousands upfront.


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## rcv82 (Jan 18, 2021)

The Oceanfront units at South both directly face the ocean and are very close with no structures in between. The units are larger, and the “deluxe” corner units are huge and have windows on the side as well as directly facing the ocean. All units, including the studios, have large lanais (unlike most other studios at South). The one bedroom lanai stretches across both the living and bedroom portion, looking directly out at the ocean. In contrast the OF at north are basically standard units and most are not as close to the ocean. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Henry M. (Jan 18, 2021)

I've been coming for 22 years (before my first timeshare), and I actually spend little time in the room. I have used the pool perhaps 5 times in all these years. I prefer to be at the actual ocean front (the beach) and swim in the ocean when I want to be in the water. We also prefer to walk to the beach to watch sunsets than to do it from the room.

I own ocean view in the South property, but island view at North. I have liked the few upgrades I've had to OF, but during certain times of the year, the sun beats pretty hard on the lanai. Once we even closed the curtains inside the room.


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## DeniseM (Jan 18, 2021)

There is no valid reason to buy from the developer.  Buy resale.


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## HHDutchy (Jan 19, 2021)

DeniseM said:


> There is no valid reason to buy from the developer.  Buy resale.



Yes, I agree 100%.

Denise, what’s your opinion on renting out the studio in the North property? 
I wouldn’t count on it, but how much $$$ and how realistic is it?


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## DeniseM (Jan 19, 2021)

Demand for the studios is much lower than the demand for the one and two bedrooms.  You might be able to rent it for enough to cover 40% of your maintenance fee.  You will have the best luck with an OF or OV studio.


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## jdm4300 (Jan 21, 2021)

We own several weeks OV at the south. I always rent the studios and consistently get $2,400 to $2,750 per week for them.  I never list them on Redweek as the listings there are too cheap.


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## Rman (Jan 21, 2021)

where would you recommend renting , I use red week sometimes but last year nothing happened, hoping to recoup some money as maintenance fees still have to be paid etc..


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## EnglishmanAbroad (Jan 22, 2021)

jdm4300 said:


> We own several weeks OV at the south. I always rent the studios and consistently get $2,400 to $2,750 per week for them.  I never list them on Redweek as the listings there are too cheap.



So is where you do list them a secret as it seems you've found a place where people are willing to pay more than 50% above the market rate?


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## controller1 (Jan 22, 2021)

jdm4300 said:


> We own several weeks OV at the south. I always rent the studios and consistently get $2,400 to $2,750 per week for them.  I never list them on Redweek as the listings there are too cheap.





EnglishmanAbroad said:


> So is where you do list them a secret as it seems you've found a place where people are willing to pay more than 50% above the market rate?



That depends on what you describe as "market rate"? It appears  @jdm4300 is renting to people who would regularly use a hotel website for their reservations as $2,400 - $2,750 per week for an OV studio is a better rate than anytime during the year on Marriott.com at WKORV. So @jdm4300 let us in on your secret . . . where do you list the rentals?


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## EnglishmanAbroad (Jan 22, 2021)

controller1 said:


> That depends on what you describe as "market rate"? It appears  @jdm4300 is renting to people who would regularly use a hotel website for their reservations as $2,400 - $2,750 per week for an OV studio is a better rate than anytime during the year on Marriott.com at WKORV. So @jdm4300 let us in on your secret . . . where do you list the rentals?


To me market rate is what I could rent it for through any of the common TS listings e.g. here, Redweek, VRBO...etc. and not through the Westin direct or through Expedia etc. I guess there's always some variability, especially with the current 'climate'. I currently see OF Studios at WKORVN for President's Day week listed for as low as $1,000 and as high as $3,250. I know which one I'd go for if I was in the market for a rental.


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## jdm4300 (Jan 22, 2021)

Vacation Candy


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## vacationtime1 (Jan 23, 2021)

jdm4300 said:


> Vacation Candy



Vacation Candy is re-renting it, probably for over $3,000!  Of course they aren't interested in renting units for more than market price unless and until they already have a customer and need the unit.  But when it works, it's great.  The highest price I ever received for renting one of my Kierland units was through StayPC, a similar company.


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## Venter (Jan 24, 2021)

I wonder how many of the low priced ones are ligitimate. Meaning that the lower priced ones may be a Staroptions booking which as I understand it is technically not allowed to be rented out. Just wondering because it makes more sense if MFs per point is less if owned elsewhere.


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## Grandma2016 (Jan 24, 2021)

We have used VRBO and Redweek.  VRBO has worked well for our week 52 units but not much other than that week.  Redweek seems to work for my event and non event weeks.  I would not buy from developer.  Buy on secondary marked.  SYED from Advantage Vacations is wonderful with resale.  Wish i would have known about resale earlier.  My favorite resort is our OF corner at South.  If i had to stay in studio non OF i would chose North because of the lanai.  They are both great resorts.   I have never had issues renting anything we can't use.


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## Lanabanana (Jan 29, 2021)

Henry M. said:


> I own at WKORV, both North and the original property (aka South). I love it here.
> 
> i would rather buy a resale unit at either property than Nanea. Nanea is a voluntary property and will lose a lot of value if purchased from the developer. Voluntary means that whoever buys it resale can't exchange into resorts that are not part of the Flex program Nanea is in.  I've lost track of which resorts are included.
> 
> ...


Can you please share where you are finding the resale prices. We purchased OV south last year 2bd every year for $17500. That was after we got in contract and had a buy back for $15500. I want to buy another south, preferably OF but having a hard time finding one for a reasonable price (i dont want deluxe)


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## Henry M. (Jan 29, 2021)

I just Google "Westin Kaanapali Ocean Resort Villas for sale" and see what comes up. For example https://www.premiertimeshareresale.com/the-westin-kaanapali-ocean-resort-villas-timeshare-resale (I don't know this seller!). As you got through the links you can find deals in the mid teens. 

i understand Vistana has gotten more aggressive with their buybacks lately, as your experience with them taking a unit for $15,500 shows. I guess even if you find a great deal, it might not make it through ROFR. A relative bought South EY OV for $12,500 3 or 4 years ago and it was not taken by Vistana. Perhaps they would take it today. They need the deeds for their flex program. Otherwise those that buy into that won't find availability when they want to reserve something.


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## DJmonkey (Apr 14, 2021)

jdm4300 said:


> We own several weeks OV at the south. I always rent the studios and consistently get $2,400 to $2,750 per week for them.  I never list them on Redweek as the listings there are too cheap.


Where do you list?


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## EnglishmanAbroad (Apr 15, 2021)

DJmonkey said:


> Where do you list?


Already answered and discussed above.


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## critterchick (Apr 15, 2021)

Does ROFR apply to all units or just those being sold by somebody who bought from the developer? If that question makes sense.

At yesterday's owner update ($150 gift card) the sales rep claimed that there are lots of Hawaii properties in Flex as deeded owners are turning them in all the time. He couldn't see me sneering under my mask.


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## daviator (Apr 15, 2021)

critterchick said:


> Does ROFR apply to all units or just those being sold by somebody who bought from the developer? If that question makes sense.


Great question.  I am also interested in the answer.



critterchick said:


> At yesterday's owner update ($150 gift card) the sales rep claimed that there are lots of Hawaii properties in Flex as deeded owners are turning them in all the time. He couldn't see me sneering under my mask.


I think most of Nanea is in Westin Flex, right?  And I imagine they are right that deeded owners are turning in weeks all the time... that's what they try hard to get people to do (replace deeded weeks with Flex) and it's likely that plenty of owners fall for it.  Add to that the weeks they buy back via ROFR and those they accept back in lieu of foreclosure, etc., and I do imagine the number of Hawaii weeks in Flex does keep growing.

And yet another benefit to mask-wearing.... secret sneering!


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## critterchick (Apr 15, 2021)

daviator said:


> Great question.  I am also interested in the answer.
> 
> I think most of Nanea is in Westin Flex, right?  And I imagine they are right that deeded owners are turning in weeks all the time... that's what they try hard to get people to do (replace deeded weeks with Flex) and it's likely that plenty of owners fall for it.  Add to that the weeks they buy back via ROFR and those they accept back in lieu of foreclosure, etc., and I do imagine the number of Hawaii weeks in Flex does keep growing.
> 
> And yet another benefit to mask-wearing.... secret sneering!



In 2019 we got a letter telling us that one building's worth of Nanea units would be deeded into Flex. I suspect that they were overwhelmed with complaints about the lack of availability in Hawaii. The Orange County (Florida, not CA) recorder's office has all of the transfer information, but I neglected to bookmark the page, so can't share a link. Guess that's a Google search for another day!

I found the instructions, go to the Orange County comptroller's website and do a search for "Notice" documents, then put "Flex Collection LLC" in the grantor box. You have to uncheck the box on the right to find document types.


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## daviator (Apr 15, 2021)

critterchick said:


> In 2019 we got a letter telling us that one building's worth of Nanea units would be deeded into Flex. I suspect that they were overwhelmed with complaints about the lack of availability in Hawaii. The Orange County (Florida, not CA) recorder's office has all of the transfer information, but I neglected to bookmark the page, so can't share a link. Guess that's a Google search for another day!
> 
> I found the instructions, go to the Orange County comptroller's website and do a search for "Notice" documents, then put "Flex Collection LLC" in the grantor box. You have to uncheck the box on the right to find document types.


One of the problems with Flex is that it combines a bunch of resorts together into the same pool, and some of them are more popular/desirable than others.  So if everyone that bought into Flex did so thinking they were going to use it for Hawaii, they've got a big problem, since probably half the usage weeks in the trust are for Arizona, Palm Springs, and Colorado.  They've sold people on a dream they may not be able to deliver on...

Happy to own deeded weeks in Maui so I don't have to compete with the Flex people there...


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## EnglishmanAbroad (Apr 15, 2021)

daviator said:


> Great question.  I am also interested in the answer.
> 
> 
> I think most of Nanea is in Westin Flex, right?  And I imagine they are right that deeded owners are turning in weeks all the time... that's what they try hard to get people to do (replace deeded weeks with Flex) and it's likely that plenty of owners fall for it.  Add to that the weeks they buy back via ROFR and those they accept back in lieu of foreclosure, etc., and I do imagine the number of Hawaii weeks in Flex does keep growing.
> ...



I would imagine, as all units were originally sold by the developer they have already had their ROFR when the owner sold it on the resale market. The ROFR contract was between the original owner and the developer not between subsequent owners and the developer.

At our owners update a couple of weeks back, when asked the obligatory why we were there, in addition to saying for the free gift I virtually opened with 'I'm not interested in trading our Maui deeds for Flex" and so they didn't even bother trying.


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## vacationtime1 (Apr 16, 2021)

EnglishmanAbroad said:


> I would imagine, as all units were originally sold by the developer they have already had their ROFR when the owner sold it on the resale market. The ROFR contract was between the original owner and the developer not between subsequent owners and the developer.
> 
> At our owners update a couple of weeks back, when asked the obligatory why we were there, in addition to saying for the free gift I virtually opened with 'I'm not interested in trading our Maui deeds for Flex" and so they didn't even bother trying.


ROFR is a covenant running with the land (it's in the CC&R's), and as such, applies to resale owners as well as to developer purchasers.


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## EnglishmanAbroad (Apr 16, 2021)

vacationtime1 said:


> ROFR is a covenant running with the land (it's in the CC&R's), and as such, applies to resale owners as well as to developer purchasers.


That's interesting. Can a seller refuse to sell to the developer? If/when I come to sell the last thing I want to do is give them back something for 25% of what I paid them 15+ years ago just so they can make even more profit on it.


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## rickandcindy23 (Apr 16, 2021)

EnglishmanAbroad said:


> That's interesting. Can a seller refuse to sell to the developer? If/when I come to sell the last thing I want to do is give them back something for 25% of what I paid them 15+ years ago just so they can make even more profit on it.


It would be better to contact a good reseller for a week on Maui, like advantagevacation.com  They are in The Cannery Mall on Maui by Safeway.  So if you want to sell, they would know the market well enough to get the price that would pass ROFR.  This goes for both buying and selling.  The website is down currently.


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## daviator (Apr 16, 2021)

EnglishmanAbroad said:


> That's interesting. Can a seller refuse to sell to the developer? If/when I come to sell the last thing I want to do is give them back something for 25% of what I paid them 15+ years ago just so they can make even more profit on it.


i suppose you could refuse to sell to the developer, but you couldn’t sell to anyone else, either, unless you did so at a price that was higher than what the developer was willing to pay. You agreed to that when you bought the property, whether you read the convenants or not…


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## rickandcindy23 (Apr 16, 2021)

daviator said:


> One of the problems with Flex is that it combines a bunch of resorts together into the same pool, and some of them are more popular/desirable than others.  So if everyone that bought into Flex did so thinking they were going to use it for Hawaii, they've got a big problem, since probably half the usage weeks in the trust are for Arizona, Palm Springs, and Colorado.  They've sold people on a dream they may not be able to deliver on...
> 
> Happy to own deeded weeks in Maui so I don't have to compete with the Flex people there...


Yes, you were wise to buy Maui.  That would be the only way to own Westin and get that guarantee for Maui.


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## EnglishmanAbroad (Apr 16, 2021)

rickandcindy23 said:


> It would be better to contact a good reseller for a week on Maui, like advantagevacation.com  They are in The Cannery Mall on Maui by Safeway.  So if you want to sell, they would know the market well enough to get the price that would pass ROFR.  This goes for both buying and selling.  The website is down currently.


Thanks. I know of them but unfortunately his fees are too high for what I have as they come in at around 30% of what I'd be selling.


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## wjarcher (Apr 16, 2021)

From my experience, you can take the unit back if it gets ROFR'ed. I asked the department (there is a number on the ROFR letter or in the email to call) and was told that you can send an email to vistana to formally take the unit back. I ended up letting vistana exercise it (WKORVN island view) because doing it would mean I have to rent this year out (not planning to go back to Maui this year) which is too much work.

Sent from my Pixel 4a using Tapatalk


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## rcv82 (Apr 17, 2021)

daviator said:


> One of the problems with Flex is that it combines a bunch of resorts together into the same pool, and some of them are more popular/desirable than others. So if everyone that bought into Flex did so thinking they were going to use it for Hawaii, they've got a big problem, since probably half the usage weeks in the trust are for Arizona, Palm Springs, and Colorado. They've sold people on a dream they may not be able to deliver on...
> 
> Happy to own deeded weeks in Maui so I don't have to compete with the Flex people there...



I have both deeded weeks at WKORV and some Westin Flex. Nanea and WDW are the two easiest resorts with Flex, as a lot of their original inventory has been sold as Flex. So if Nanea works for you, Flex is fine. The hardest Flex home use is Riverfront during ski season, as there are only 34 kickoff units total, and very few in Flex. WKORV S/N both have some inventory but it is hit and miss at 12 months and there is no view guarantee. 


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## critterchick (Apr 19, 2021)

EnglishmanAbroad said:


> I would imagine, as all units were originally sold by the developer they have already had their ROFR when the owner sold it on the resale market. The ROFR contract was between the original owner and the developer not between subsequent owners and the developer.
> 
> At our owners update a couple of weeks back, when asked the obligatory why we were there, in addition to saying for the free gift I virtually opened with 'I'm not interested in trading our Maui deeds for Flex" and so they didn't even bother trying.





rcv82 said:


> I say that about our Princeville ownership as well. I tell them they can pry it out of our cold dead hands.
> 
> I have both deeded weeks at WKORV and some Westin Flex. Nanea and WDW are the two easiest resorts with Flex, as a lot of their original inventory has been sold as Flex. So if Nanea works for you, Flex is fine. The hardest Flex home use is Riverfront during ski season, as there are only 34 kickoff units total, and very few in Flex. WKORV S/N both have some inventory but it is hit and miss at 12 months and there is no view guarantee.
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



Nanea is fine if one is willing to spring for a 2BR - 1BR units are few and far between and aren't very nice, anyway (said the spoiled princess).  We were able to get WKORV in February for a couple of years but 2022 is another story. Maybe we'll have some luck at the 8 month mark with SOs.


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## Voyageur (Apr 26, 2021)

Henry M. said:


> I own at WKORV, both North and the original property (aka South). I love it here.
> 
> i would rather buy a resale unit at either property than Nanea. Nanea is a voluntary property and will lose a lot of value if purchased from the developer. Voluntary means that whoever buys it resale can't exchange into resorts that are not part of the Flex program Nanea is in.  I've lost track of which resorts are included.
> 
> ...


Can you explain the Nanea lack of sale? We have a deed that says 148k points for a Resort View (no Ocean view were available). Can we rent it out?


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## Henry M. (Apr 26, 2021)

What do you mean by lack of Nanea sale? Is it hard to find units for sale there? I have no idea what the market is like.

You can rent out a reservation you make at your home resort. The rules are explicit about not being allowed to rent reservations at locations you do not own. For example, if you own at Nanea, you can rent out a reservation that you make there. You cannot rent out an exchange into KOR-N or any other resort.


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## daviator (Apr 27, 2021)

Henry M. said:


> What do you mean by lack of Nanea sale? Is it hard to find units for sale there? I have no idea what the market is like.
> 
> You can rent out a reservation you make at your home resort. The rules are explicit about not being allowed to rent reservations at locations you do not own. For example, if you own at Nanea, you can rent out a reservation that you make there. You cannot rent out an exchange into KOR-N or any other resort.


How does that work for Flex owners?  I assume you can rent out a reservation you make at any of the Westin Flex or Sheraton Flex resorts (depending which trust you own)?  Does it matter whether you make the reservation during the 8-12 month Home Resort period or whether you make it within 8 months of stay?  Does it matter whether the resort was booked with Home Options or with Star Options?

If I own a deeded week at WKORV, can I rent out a stay there that I reserved using SOs from a different ownership at a different resort?  I'm assuming no, but curious if anyone knows for sure.  (In other words, does ownership at a resort give you carte blanche to rent out all reservations you make at that resort, or just reservations using that ownership at that resort?)

These are all hypotheticals, I haven't done much renting out (just a couple of times at WDW.)  But I'd like to know what's permissible and what's not.  And do they police this policy?  How does Vistana know if you're renting vs. allowing friends to use your ownership?

I'm sure these questions have all been asked before, I'll go search the archives.


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## Henry M. (Apr 27, 2021)

I don't own Flex. 

To me the intent of the restriction is pretty clear. You can only rent out a reservation at the home resort where the Staroptions came from. The intent is to allow full use of what you own while not interfering with owner use at a different resort. Owning at multiple resorts doesn't give carte blanche to use Staroptions from one to rent out reservations at another. In the case of Flex, I interpret you could make a reservation at any of the resorts in your particular hone ownership pool.


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## 10spro (May 4, 2021)

Long time multi-week Marriott owner here. Just got out of a sales presentation at WKOVR. I know nothing about Westin except that I really like this resort. For 99K you get 2BR corner OF deluxe unit, plus 353K villa options OR 726K points, plus 6 certificates to buy 270K points for $1875 each. It looks like resale for OF is $40K to $50K. Is there any reason to buy direct from Westin? Is the deluxe unit worth it?


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## EnglishmanAbroad (May 4, 2021)

10spro said:


> Long time multi-week Marriott owner here. Just got out of a sales presentation at WKOVR. I know nothing about Westin except that I really like this resort. For 99K you get 2BR corner OF deluxe unit, plus 353K villa options OR 726K points, plus 6 certificates to buy 270K points for $1875 each. It looks like resale for OF is $40K to $50K. Is there any reason to buy direct from Westin? Is the deluxe unit worth it?


I think the OFD corner units have higher maintenance fees and have a side lanai for the studio so general opinion is that they are a less attractive proposition than the straight on OF units. Resale prices I see on Redweek are more in the 30-35K range so compared to the developer price of 99K I guess you can say that they are worth it although you don't get the hotel points option when buying resale.


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## rcv82 (May 4, 2021)

I own three weeks of OF deluxe, and love it. Actually using it right now. Like seeing out two sides of the unit. The only downside is the higher maintenance fee than the non deluxe units. 

Given WKORV is a “mandatory” property, meaning resale gets to participate in the Vistana Signature Network and exchange under 8 months using StarOptions, there is really no benefit to buying from the developer. (Developer qualified units can convert to Bonvoy points, but that is not a very good deal with how much they have devalued the points.) Possibly there will be some additional benefit to developer purchases as they merge with MVC. 

But in any case, the reason to buy OFD is to use it! So not much else really matters. 

You might be able to find a price in the 30ks. But supposedly they are getting more aggressive in exercising ROFR.


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## 10spro (May 4, 2021)

@rcv82 Loved meeting up with fellow TUG-ers Randy and Doug at WKORV today. Thanks so much for your hospitality and great conversation. Hope you have a great rest of your stay and maybe we’ll see you back here.


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## DanCali (May 11, 2021)

EnglishmanAbroad said:


> That's interesting. Can a seller refuse to sell to the developer? If/when I come to sell the last thing I want to do is give them back something for 25% of what I paid them 15+ years ago just so they can make even more profit on it.



If you have a serious buyer you can cancel the transaction and try again.

We own a Marriott week that I purchased a couple of years ago pre-pandemic (owner used a broker) that was ROFR'd at $17K. We canceled the agreement and did a new one for $18K which went through.


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