# SPG Marriott Unification



## Cornell (Apr 16, 2018)

*[Moderator Note - Related thread in the Marriott forum: Marriott Rewards and SPG Program Changes Announced 4/16/18 [Threads merged.]]*

https://thepointsguy.com/news/details-unified-marriott-spg-loyalty-program/


----------



## NNerland (Apr 16, 2018)

Thanks for posting - we had a thread going.   Now I guess the 5* wait with baited breathe to ensure that Platinum for Life is a continued perk and one that we know the developers pay for us to have to entice us to buy more.  If that is the case we come out pretty decent.

Big changes on the Amex Card - devalued by 33% from what I read....but the important benefits seem to be intact......


----------



## duke (Apr 16, 2018)

The new elite tiers strongly favor Platinum members and higher — the fact that suites are included in best-available room upgrades is a major bonus. But you’ll also be able to choose to receive five Suite Night Awards at the Platinum level and an additional five Suite Night Awards at the Platinum Premier level. Marriott has informed us that members who achieved Platinum status prior to the launch of the combined program in August and chose Suite Night Awards for their choice option will receive 10 Suite Night Awards for this year.

Also, according to Marriott, the breakfast offering for Platinum and Platinum Premier members will be available at 23 of the 29 participating brands, as well as all resorts.

The new program will also be keeping the SPG transfer bonus that offered an extra 5,000 airline miles when converting 20,000 SPG points.

Credit to ThePointsGuy.com


----------



## NNerland (Apr 16, 2018)

I also have an email in to Thomas on behalf of the 5* members - asking about two very important items.  Platinum for Life and Options to Points.  Will it continue.  The Platinum was always a bit watered down from the suite guarantee upgrade - if you stayed 50 nights you would get the option to lock in 10; but you got upgrades if available at checkin.   We shall see.

For the most part - could have been way worse.  Credit cards will be interesting to study -and one positive (slight) is the Visa option.


----------



## vistana101 (Apr 16, 2018)

Overall, I'm very pleased. They've kept the gold and platinum benefits pretty similar to the current SPG structure, so I'd imagine the same status benefits will continue for Vistana members (all members to Gold, 5* members to Platinum). But hopefully, they will confirm that soon.

I'm also very curious as to how they will determine the new point conversion values, and I hope they announce something soon.

As it stands now, with the 3:1 conversion, it seems to work out better than before in many cases. (Ex: My current total conversion points of 84,000 will not even get me three nights at the top SPG properties. In the new program, it *should* convert to 252,000 points, which would be enough points for 4 nights at a top-tier Marriott/Starwood property.) 

I assume they will officially allow the timeshare Starpoints to be converted into the main system (since they technically don't currently allow timeshare points to be converted to Marriott points)? If they don't, it would put me in a very tough spot!!


----------



## duke (Apr 16, 2018)

Vistana will still give 5* Elites the Platinum in new Marriott.
StarPoints will become new Marriott Points X3.
Gold will become new Marriott Gold.

Question is:  Will New Platinum include the 50 Night (5 Suite Nights)?  Seems it might for next year and even include 10 Suite Nights.  Unsure after....

New credit cards don't cut it.  Get the Chase Sapphire Reserve !


----------



## NNerland (Apr 16, 2018)

duke said:


> Vistana will still give 5* Elites the Platinum in new Marriott.
> StarPoints will become new Marriott Points X3.
> Gold will become new Marriott Gold.
> 
> ...



Duke - do you have an official confirmation of this, or is this your speculation or best guess.  If confirmed this is outstanding news.

I agree on the card - hard to beat the Sapphire Reserve - interesting that Chase competes against itself in that arena and reduces benefits of some other cards.


----------



## vistana101 (Apr 16, 2018)

duke said:


> Vistana will still give 5* Elites the Platinum in new Marriott.
> StarPoints will become new Marriott Points X3.
> Gold will become new Marriott Gold.



Did you see this info published somewhere? I couldn't find anything.


----------



## rickandcindy23 (Apr 16, 2018)

You would not believe the number of SPG points I have in my account right now.  I need to transfer or do something with them that will benefit us before August 1st.


----------



## Moparman42 (Apr 16, 2018)

I haven't been able to find out yet.    do Vistana owners still get the automatic SPG Gold status with the new program?   nothing mentions the timeshare end of it.   thoughts?


----------



## Shansbox (Apr 16, 2018)

Question, we're staying at the Westin villas property in October.  We signed a contract for 50k SPG points, after the 90 minute sit down.  We had to prepay.  So.... do we get 50k SPG points = 150k Marriott points, or 50k Marriott points... or nothing?  Not sure what to do, who to ask....  I appreciate any light you may be able to shed on this predicament.


----------



## dioxide45 (Apr 16, 2018)

Shansbox said:


> Question, we're staying at the Westin villas property in October.  We signed a contract for 50k SPG points, after the 90 minute sit down.  We had to prepay.  So.... do we get 50k SPG points = 150k Marriott points, or 50k Marriott points... or nothing?  Not sure what to do, who to ask....  I appreciate any light you may be able to shed on this predicament.


We are not exactly sure what you bought? 50K SPG points would convert to 150K MR points if you link your accounts and transfer them. You need to give us more details about what you bought. Did you buy Home Options, Sheraton Flex or perhaps an Explorer Package? How much did you pay?


----------



## Shansbox (Apr 16, 2018)

I believe we bought the explorer package for $2300.  Yes, the 50k points would transfer to 150k Marriott points... but our trip isn't until October.  They're making the conversion to this new program in august. We don't get the points until we sit down and listen to their presentation... in October.  Will they still give us SPG points or will they have to give us marriott points, since SPG will no longer exist?


----------



## xbankerME (Apr 16, 2018)

a follow up question.  With Vistana / SO ownership, we get SPG gold status.  The SPG/Marriott merger got us matching status with Marriott Rewards...so Marriott Gold status.  With the new combined program, it says SPG gold converts to new Gold Elite status starting in August.  But Gold Elite Marriott Rewards converts to Platinum Elite status effective August.   At launch of the new program in August, are we getting Gold Elite or Platinum Elite status?  And going forward at renewal periods, looks like we get downgraded to Gold Elite if we don't meet the nights/spending requirements?  

Here is link to the Marriott page:  https://members.marriott.com/marriottrewards/
and link to the SPG announcement page:  https://members.marriott.com/spg/


----------



## dioxide45 (Apr 16, 2018)

xbankerME said:


> a follow up question.  With Vistana / SO ownership, we get SPG gold status.  The SPG/Marriott merger got us matching status with Marriott Rewards...so Marriott Gold status.  With the new combined program, it says SPG gold converts to new Gold Elite status starting in August.  But Gold Elite Marriott Rewards converts to Platinum Elite status effective August.   At launch of the new program in August, are we getting Gold Elite or Platinum Elite status?  And going forward at renewal periods, looks like we get downgraded to Gold Elite if we don't meet the nights/spending requirements?
> 
> Here is link to the Marriott page:  https://members.marriott.com/marriottrewards/
> and link to the SPG announcement page:  https://members.marriott.com/spg/


Until the timeshare companies announce how their integrations will work, it is anybody's guess.


----------



## dss (Apr 16, 2018)

Here is an interesting new twist. From what I've read MVC nights count towards elite status and earn full points. I wonder if there is a chance that benefit would now be extended to VSN properties since they are essentially affiliated to the same loyalty program. Would be a huge advantage if we received night credits for our VSN stays?


----------



## zerodegre (Apr 16, 2018)

The biggest mystery is how the SPG options will transfer to Marriott points. I own 81,000 options with the ability to covert to 42,000 SPG points.  So my question is how many Marriott points for my ownership convert to ??  Anyone call services today and ask!!!?

If they do not offer 3 to 1 conversion it’s going to be a s$&t show. 

After augustby the way our AMEXSPG for each dollar spent will give you 2 Marriott points


----------



## NNerland (Apr 16, 2018)

I have very good information that it will be 3-1 under the new program.   So what you used to get in SPG - x3.    They will combine all of our accounts

Also Vistana will have a detailed email in 2 days.  Marriott requested they hold off for 2 days.   They are ready have lots of good news and i believe most will be happy.  You can’t please anyone but in my conversation today with a very high up Vistana employee you should be very happy!!!   I am 5* and I am very pleased with what i heard.   The rumors and panic were once again misinformation, to no ones surprise.


----------



## zerodegre (Apr 16, 2018)

Hope that part is true... but it is a big deal for those who have the AMEX SPG card  ..  they devalued the card by 33% 

now you will get 2 marriott points per dollar after august instead of 3.  It will pretty much be useless.


----------



## NNerland (Apr 16, 2018)

The SPG Card was never going to stay that good.  But i have found Amex more and more challenging to use.  Plus chase reserve is tough to beat.   But having a visa option is great and 15 nights credit is way better than 5


----------



## VacationForever (Apr 16, 2018)

zerodegre said:


> The biggest mystery is how the SPG options will transfer to Marriott points. I own 81,000 options with the ability to covert to 42,000 SPG points.  So my question is how many Marriott points for my ownership convert to ??  Anyone call services today and ask!!!?
> 
> If they do not offer 3 to 1 conversion it’s going to be a s$&t show.
> 
> After augustby the way our AMEXSPG for each dollar spent will give you 2 Marriott points


In the new program, all SPG points will be multiplied by 3 into the "common" points program.


----------



## zerodegre (Apr 16, 2018)

YEs  I understand that .. but what happens in next year when i convert my options to Marriott points.. how many will i get ??  You got confirmation that you would get 3 marriott points from owners services?  for example you are saying my 81,000 Star Options will give me 126,000 marriott points... now my 81,000 gives me 42,000 SPG??

After August SPG will no longer exist in any form


----------



## VacationForever (Apr 16, 2018)

zerodegre said:


> YEs  I understand that .. but what happens in next year when i convert my options to Marriott points.. how many will i get ??  You got confirmation that you would get 3 marriott points from owners services?  for example you are saying my 81,000 Star Options will give me 126,000 marriott points... now my 81,000 gives me 42,000 SPG??
> 
> After August SPG will no longer exist in any form


No.  Nothing to do with Star Options.  SPG points convert to 3 in the new points system.  Marriott points go straight across as 1:1.  It was covered in the session.  When you opt for starpoints conversion from your Vistana time, you get your 1 SPG point to become 3 points in the new system.

There is no more "Marriott" points.  They have not named the new program yet.  Right now the new program is simply called "points".

The part that all of us should be very concerned is that it appears that there will be major devaluation of the points system again.  See below. 

I have been converting all my timeshare every other year into Starpoints and MRPs.  Unless Vistana and MVC both increase the points conversion, I will never  convert my timeshare into hotel points ever again.

Free Night Award Chart

*Category* *Standard Effective August* / *Off-Peak Coming 2019* / *Peak Coming 2019*
1 7,500 5,000 10,000
2 12,500 10,000 15,000
3 17,500 15,000 20,000
4 25,000 20,000 30,000
5 35,000 30,000 40,000
6 50,000 40,000 60,000
7 60,000 50,000 70,000
8 Coming 2019 85,000 70,000 100,000


----------



## zerodegre (Apr 16, 2018)

Right   but after August there will never be SPG points again...  How do you know what star options will convert to is my question..  I understand that our current SPG points will go to 3 marriott in August.. but the session does not discuss ownership in Vistana.   After august there will never ever be an SPG again created  only Marriott points..


----------



## dioxide45 (Apr 16, 2018)

zerodegre said:


> YEs  I understand that .. but what happens in next year when i convert my options to Marriott points.. how many will i get ??  You got confirmation that you would get 3 marriott points from owners services?  for example you are saying my 81,000 Star Options will give me 126,000 marriott points... now my 81,000 gives me 42,000 SPG??
> 
> After August SPG will no longer exist in any form


When you convert your week to SPG points, you get 42,000 SPG points. In the future you should get 126,000 MR points instead.


----------



## zerodegre (Apr 16, 2018)

Dioxide45:  I assume you confirmed this with oner services...  Good to know.. thanks


----------



## dioxide45 (Apr 16, 2018)

zerodegre said:


> Right   but after August there will never be SPG points again...  How do you know what star options will convert to is my question..  I understand that our current SPG points will go to 3 marriott in August.. but the session does not discuss ownership in Vistana.   After august there will never ever be an SPG again created  only Marriott points..


Just to clarify, you don't convert StarOptions to SPG points, you convert your ownership week in to SPG points. Don't even mention StarOptions (unless they are Home Options in one of the Flex Programs) because they are not applicable when discussing with regard to SPG.


----------



## dioxide45 (Apr 16, 2018)

zerodegre said:


> Dioxide45:  I assume you confirmed this with oner services...  Good to know.. thanks


No, I didn't. I mentioned it to remove the confusion between StarOptions and SPG Points.


----------



## zerodegre (Apr 16, 2018)

Actually you can convert some or all or your Star options to SPG in Flex  you do not have to do the entire week


----------



## zerodegre (Apr 16, 2018)

I can convert some of my 81,000 Star Options or all of my 81,000 in FLEX at a .52 return to SPG points now


----------



## VacationForever (Apr 17, 2018)

zerodegre said:


> I can convert some of my 81,000 Star Options or all of my 81,000 in FLEX at a .52 return to SPG points now


See my updated post above.  From my assessment there will be major point devaluation, so you may not even want to convert to hotel points.  Plus, it appears that there will not be anymore travel packages.


----------



## zerodegre (Apr 17, 2018)

Where did you get the information on no Travel Package?  I have heard the opposite but they will revamp it in August

If they devalue the conversion to hotel points Vistana owners will and should be very upset


----------



## dioxide45 (Apr 17, 2018)

zerodegre said:


> I can convert some of my 81,000 Star Options or all of my 81,000 in FLEX at a .52 return to SPG points now


So do you own StarOptions or Home Options or both? Do you own a deeded week? If you own a deeded week and it is a lock off, I think you can convert one side (or the whole) of the lock off to SPG points. However, outside of that, you can't convert StarOptions to SPG points, you are converting your deeded week.


----------



## VacationForever (Apr 17, 2018)

zerodegre said:


> Where did you get the information on no Travel Package?  I have heard the opposite but they will revamp it in August
> 
> If they devalue the conversion to hotel points Vistana owners will and should be very upset


The emphasis was 3:1 conversion from points to hotel airline miles.  Every 60000 points get a bonus 15000 miles, which is the same as the current SPG program.  There was ZERO mention of travel packages in both the live event as well as on the website.


----------



## Henry M. (Apr 17, 2018)

The letters I just received from SPG and Marriott state that Starpoints will be multiplied by three to convert to points in the new Marriott Loyalty Program that will get a new name in 2019.

The letter from Starwood has my name and SPG number and tells me:



> As an SPG Lifetime™ elite member, you’ll keep your status — for life. See your benefits.



Now my account lists me as lifetime Gold, but I also get Platinum benefits for being 5* Elite. We’ll still have to see what happens with that. I don’t think I’m listed as Lifetime Platinum on the SPG side, because I would lose the status if I were to lose my 5*status on the Vistana side. 

We’ll earn 10 points per US Dollar spent at Marriott properties.

The main downside I see is for the credit card. It earns just 2 points per dollar spent, instapead of multiplying by 3 the current point/$ rate.

A summary of changes for SPG members is listed at:
https://members.marriott.com/spg/

Changes for Marriott Rewards members are at:
https://members.marriott.com/marriottrewards/


----------



## zerodegre (Apr 17, 2018)

There is no deed per say in FLEX.. it is a trust..   you just own options and pay mait based on how many options you have..  no such thing as Home options... ALL options are options in the system  In flex you do get a 12 month priority window in the 6 Flex Sheraton properties. 

Incorrect  In Flex you can convert any # of options to SPG that you wish..and use the remainder in II or on the vistana network..  hence the name FLEX haha


----------



## NNerland (Apr 17, 2018)

Zerodegre - yes it is very simple.   Your old exchange will be multiplied by 3.  You get that many points to use in the new combined program.    With flex you are correct in you can do some, all or none.  Use the Ownership how you want in network and bank or convert the balances and it will be at 3x what you are used to


----------



## NNerland (Apr 17, 2018)

VacationForever said:


> The emphasis was 3:1 conversion from points to hotel airline miles.  Every 60000 points get a bonus 15000 miles, which is the same as the current SPG program.  There was ZERO mention of travel packages in both the live event as well as on the website.



They stated - or the Points guy explained that the packages will remain.    Crossover with a delta is the biggest wildcard.  The rest will remain


----------



## NNerland (Apr 17, 2018)

zerodegre said:


> Where did you get the information on no Travel Package?  I have heard the opposite but they will revamp it in August
> 
> If they devalue the conversion to hotel points Vistana owners will and should be very upset



The devaluation she is discussing is not correct.  They have a new table of redemption.  If you read the points guy many of these actually favor SPG points and future point conversions.   She isn’t factoring the 3-1.   To compare to current spg redemtion tiers divide by 3 and you will be pleased in most cases


----------



## NNerland (Apr 17, 2018)

VacationForever said:


> No.  Nothing to do with Star Options.  SPG points convert to 3 in the new points system.  Marriott points go straight across as 1:1.  It was covered in the session.  When you opt for starpoints conversion from your Vistana time, you get your 1 SPG point to become 3 points in the new system.
> 
> There is no more "Marriott" points.  They have not named the new program yet.  Right now the new program is simply called "points".
> 
> ...



You aren’t interpreting this correctly.   If you divide these numbers by 3 to compare the SPG tiers most are the same and more often less

Of course they have to tier all the hotels again and we get that in June.  But to say there is a massive devaluation is massively incorrect and dramatic.  The sky isn’t falling and if you compare to current SPG l, as the points guy does on his report; you would be surprised.   There are so many positives. This could have been a major change but if you look closely i would guess that 95% of people come out the same or better.    
Are there a few things that may impact...yes.   But Marriott Has treated owners very fair IMO


----------



## NNerland (Apr 17, 2018)

VacationForever said:


> See my updated post above.  From my assessment there will be major point devaluation, so you may not even want to convert to hotel points.  Plus, it appears that there will not be anymore travel packages.



I am sorry but you are incorrect.  Please read all of the points guys articles before stating things that aren’t true.


----------



## zerodegre (Apr 17, 2018)

Good to hear that you confirmed the 3:1 on future conversions ..  now my next concern is what happens to my 7 day marriott travel certificates if i do not book by august.


----------



## YYJMSP (Apr 17, 2018)

emuyshondt said:


> Now my account lists me as lifetime Gold, but I also get Platinum benefits for being 5* Elite. We’ll still have to see what happens with that. I don’t think I’m listed as Lifetime Platinum on the SPG side, because I would lose the status if I were to lose my 5*status on the Vistana side.



VSE's benefit is not Platinum for Life, or Lifetime Platinum.  It's Platinum (at the lowest version of Platinum) each year as long as you maintain the requirements for being 5 * Elite.


----------



## Henry M. (Apr 17, 2018)

I agree, YYJMSP. Hopefully this will result in Marriott Platinum benefits after this conversion.


----------



## okwiater (Apr 17, 2018)

emuyshondt said:


> I agree, YYJMSP. Hopefully this will result in Marriott Platinum benefits after this conversion.



I would assume so. Otherwise what aspirational goal will Vistana have to sell to all the non-Elites?


----------



## tomandrobin (Apr 17, 2018)

Thanks for posting! 

Overall, I think the new combined system works for me. I don't see a huge upside or a huge downside.  I no longer have a lot of SPG points, about 120k and I have not been using the hotel side much the past few years.


----------



## Mulege (Apr 17, 2018)

xbankerME said:


> a follow up question.  With Vistana / SO ownership, we get SPG gold status.  The SPG/Marriott merger got us matching status with Marriott Rewards...so Marriott Gold status.  With the new combined program, it says SPG gold converts to new Gold Elite status starting in August.  But Gold Elite Marriott Rewards converts to Platinum Elite status effective August.   At launch of the new program in August, are we getting Gold Elite or Platinum Elite status?  And going forward at renewal periods, looks like we get downgraded to Gold Elite if we don't meet the nights/spending requirements?
> 
> Here is link to the Marriott page:  https://members.marriott.com/marriottrewards/
> and link to the SPG announcement page:  https://members.marriott.com/spg/




Looks like you get Platinum Elite until end of the year then you drop to Gold Elite.


----------



## Mulege (Apr 17, 2018)

Bobw said:


> Looks like you get Platinum Elite until end of the year then you drop to Gold Elite.


Go to One Mile At A Time (OMAT) to see a comprehensive explanation. 

No more free night after 4 nights. No more Lounge access for Gold. That hurts


----------



## NNerland (Apr 17, 2018)

Bobw said:


> Go to One Mile At A Time (OMAT) to see a comprehensive explanation.
> 
> No more free night after 4 nights. No more Lounge access for Gold. That hurts




Where do you see that you don't get a free night after 4 nights?

https://onemileatatime.boardingarea...-points-redemption-opportunities-coming-soon/

This article says DIRECTLY THE OPPOSITE....

*he HUGE opportunity Marriott’s interim award pricing presents*
That means for awards booked between August and December, the most expensive redemption will be 60,000 Marriott Rewards points per night, which is the equivalent of 20,000 Starpoints per night in today’s currency. You also get a fifth night free on redemptions, so that brings down the average cost for a five night stay to 16,000 Starpoints per night (in today’s currency).

Currently Starwood’s top hotels cost 35,000 Starpoints per night, so that’s the same as getting over 40% off!

Previously in peak season a redemption at the St. Regis Aspen or St. Regis Deer Valley cost 140,000 Starpoints for five nights *(with the fifth night free)*. Starting in August that redemption would cost just 240,000 Marriott Rewards points, which is the equivalent of 80,000 Starpoints.

That’s a _huge_ discount. If you want to redeem for one of the top Marriott, Ritz-Carlton, or Starwood properties in the world, then between August and December of this year is the time to book.

We don’t know exactly when Marriott’s new “peak” and “off-peak” pricing will kick in, or when Category 8 properties will be introduced, but it will presumably me somewhere towards the beginning of 2019.


----------



## Mulege (Apr 17, 2018)

NNerland said:


> Where do you see that you don't get a free night after 4 nights?
> 
> https://onemileatatime.boardingarea...-points-redemption-opportunities-coming-soon/
> 
> ...



You are correct. Sorry, I misread.


----------



## NNerland (Apr 17, 2018)

Bobw said:


> You are correct. Sorry, I misread.



No problem - just panicked myself as I have read lots and hadn't seen that fact. Would be a huge devaluation as most redemption's for me are with the free night and we plan our trips that way to get the most value.


----------



## CalGalTraveler (Apr 17, 2018)

I have 2 SPG AMEXcards (personal, business). Will I receive a free annual hotel room with both cards? or only 1 room i.e. Should I cancel one card since the bus card lounge access is revoked and I don't get another free night with that card?

FWIW...I was preparing to pull the trigger to apply for an Amex business platinum for lounge access at our local airport that we cannot get with Priority Pass, but the devaluation of the gold elite is just one more reason to hold off on paying $550 for the card.


----------



## bluesboy72 (Apr 17, 2018)

I am a 4* owner, lifetime gold but qualify for platinum 50 based on additional stays from business travel, and AMEX cardholder. If I am reading the announcement and other various blogs correctly, changes for me are: 1) pros - add ultimate reservation guarantee for gold/platinum, small improvement on points earned (25% on 10 points per dollar) for gold and big improvement for Platinum (50% on 10 points per dollar), access to more properties using points, nights at any Marriott property count toward status. 2) Cons - drop in points earned with everyday purchases on AMEX card, stays no longer count toward status (I'm always walking a fine line on nights so this prob hurts me the most; although the new 15 nights bonus might help - not sure yet), Delta crossovers gone or TBD?, reduced number of suite nights awards once Platinum (5 vs. 10), no lounge access for gold, and no guaranteed late checkout for gold. Does that seem right or am I missing any big items? Also, I am making an assumption that Vistana is going to make this as good or better with their commitment and tie-in to the new Marriott rewards program. If so, I think the overall effect for me is favorable. Yes, there are a few cons but I also see some upside, esp the way points are earned, having access to many more properties (huge for SPG folks like me who travel to smaller towns/cities where properties are limited or non-existent), and accruing nights for status at ALL properties.

The only other question I have is if anyone knows if reward nights will continue to count toward status.

Thoughts?


----------



## vistana101 (Apr 17, 2018)

VacationForever said:


> No.  Nothing to do with Star Options.  SPG points convert to 3 in the new points system.  Marriott points go straight across as 1:1.  It was covered in the session.  When you opt for starpoints conversion from your Vistana time, you get your 1 SPG point to become 3 points in the new system.
> 
> There is no more "Marriott" points.  They have not named the new program yet.  Right now the new program is simply called "points".
> 
> ...



I wouldn't say it's a complete devaluation, at least for now. Personally, I now want to do everything I can to convert all my weeks for this next year. 
My two combined weeks used to convert to 84,000 points, not even enough for 3 nights at a top, category 7 property. With this system, if everything said above is correct, I *should* receive 252,000 points in the new system, enough for 4 nights in any top Marriott property. So, I am happy!

I would also expect that those highest categories will be almost exclusively the luxury brands like St. Regis, Ritz, Edition, etc.


----------



## duke (Apr 17, 2018)

This is a GREAT deal for Vistana (SPG) Timeshare owners.

1) High value SPG hotels have been reduced in StarPoint cost.
2) SPG points will convert to 3X new Marriott.
3) SPG Gold and SPG Platinum will convert to same or better benefit new Marriott.

Here's what it means to us:
1) There will be more value in converting use of Timeshare to Points.
2) It has become much more difficult to "earn" Points" via everyday spend on credit cards.
3) It has become much easier to earn "point" via hotel stays.
4) *This all makes being able to get so many Points through Timeshare ownership quite a "unique" situation and great position to be in.*
5)  My bet is that Vistana will 1- Make the conversion and value for current owners easy and great value. AND 2- Sell all new deals at lower Points conversions and higher requirements to get Gold and Platinum.

Recommendation:  Become 5*Elite as you not only get Platinum but also 10% bonus on StarPoints conversion.  Buy up high starpoint value timeshare weeks resale and requalify.


----------



## VacationForever (Apr 17, 2018)

duke said:


> This is a GREAT deal for Vistana (SPG) Timeshare owners.
> 
> 1) High value SPG hotels have been reduced in StarPoint cost.
> 2) SPG points will convert to 3X new Marriott.
> ...


I don't think we have enough information to confirm some of your observations.
1. We do not know if high value SPG hotels have been reduced in Starpoint cost.  They could jolly well be in the top tier categories.  
2. SPG points have been converting to 3X Marriott for about a year now.  Not new.
3. SPG Gold actually translates to new Gold, SPG Platinum translates to new Platinum.  The new Platinum is really old Marriott Gold.  The new Gold does not get lounge access.


----------



## canesfan (Apr 17, 2018)

New Gold is not equivalent to SPG Gold. It has lost lounge access and has an earlier late check out time. I’d hold off the enthusiasm until we see the tiers of hotels & point costs. 



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## lorenmd (Apr 17, 2018)

so i lose on my SPG amex card. it is now 1:2 instead of 1:3 for marriott points.  what about chase points.  will they convert only 1:1 ?  that isn't a good deal at all.  my goal is to get AA points but chase doesn't transfer to AA but they do transfer to Marriott.  but still better to use amex card at 1:2 than chase at 1:1 . anyone know?


----------



## blondietink (Apr 17, 2018)

I just logged into my SPG account and it lists me as Gold Preferred and says nothing about Elite.  Am I missing something?  My Marriott account also says just Gold.


----------



## VacationForever (Apr 17, 2018)

blondietink said:


> I just logged into my SPG account and it lists me as Gold Preferred and says nothing about Elite.  Am I missing something?  My Marriott account also says just Gold.


Nothing changes until August.  The question is how have you acquired your Gold status?  Through SPG/Marriott stays/spends/timeshare?  More information and we can help you decipher.


----------



## blondietink (Apr 17, 2018)

VacationForever said:


> Nothing changes until August.  The question is how have you acquired your Gold status?  Through SPG/Marriott stays/spends/timeshare?  More information and we can help you decipher.



We acquired our Gold status through 2 timeshare purchases.  We own 162,000 Options.  We rarely stay in SPG hotels, but since the merger, we have stayed in several Marriott brand hotels. There are more Marriott brands to choose from in the cities we visit. We run a lot of ongoing charges through the SPG card and had signed up for the Marriott card last year for the 70,000 point bonus.  Actually just got the notice that we have a free night for our card anniversary.


----------



## VacationForever (Apr 17, 2018)

blondietink said:


> We acquired our Gold status through 2 timeshare purchases.  We own 162,000 Options.  We rarely stay in SPG hotels, but since the merger, we have stayed in several Marriott brand hotels. There are more Marriott brands to choose from in the cities we visit. We run a lot of ongoing charges through the SPG card and had signed up for the Marriott card last year for the 70,000 point bonus.  Actually just got the notice that we have a free night for our card anniversary.


You need to look at how many nights you have in your SPG account and how many nights and points you have in your Marriott Rewards Account.  When you run more than $30K on the SPG Amex, you get gold for the year.  Your Gold status through developer timeshare purchase is not lifetime but you have it as long as you don't sell it.  Lifetime Gold for SPG is 250 nights, Lifetime Gold for Marriott is 500 nights and 1.6 Million Marriott points.  These are earned nights/points.  If you have not achieved either one, you don't get lifetime elite status transferred over in the new system.  Vistana and Marriott Vacation Club have not clarified as to how owners with status through their timeshare ownership translates in the new system.


----------



## YYJMSP (Apr 17, 2018)

tomandrobin said:


> Overall, I think the new combined system works for me. I don't see a huge upside or a huge downside.



i dont see any huge effect at higher levels.  What they took away at Plat 50 they moved to a higher level, or split (SNAs) across two levels.

i'm SPG Plat 50 from my 5* Elite status, and im Lifetime Platinum from the hotel side, so they both likely equate to the new Platinum Elite, with no significant loss of major benefits.

the other perks (extra points, Your24, full number of SNAs) all kick on with SPG Platinum 100 earned from the hotel side matched to the new Platinum Premier Elite.

only thing i may lose is my Ambassador as im not sure if my annual spend is the equivalent of $20K USD (as im located and largely stay in Canada, so the exchange rate is not in my favour), but thst particuler perk is quite hit and miss... 

on the plus side might be access to more airline partners, with the impending Aeroplan and Air Canada divorce.


----------



## Helios (Apr 17, 2018)

emuyshondt said:


> The letters I just received from SPG and Marriott state that Starpoints will be multiplied by three to convert to points in the new Marriott Loyalty Program that will get a new name in 2019.
> 
> The letter from Starwood has my name and SPG number and tells me:
> 
> ...


Interesting, I am 5* Elite and I am listed as Platinum Elite (Renew at 75 nights) in Marriott and Plat Preferred in SPG.


----------



## Helios (Apr 17, 2018)

Bobw said:


> No more free night after 4 nights.



You may want to look into the Citi Prestige for paid stays...


----------



## Helios (Apr 17, 2018)

rickandcindy23 said:


> You would not believe the number of SPG points I have in my account right now.  I need to transfer or do something with them that will benefit us before August 1st.


OK, I have to ask.  What is your SPG balance (in round numbers)? "You would not believe the number of SPG points I have in my account right now" = 10M+ to me...


----------



## Helios (Apr 17, 2018)

duke said:


> Recommendation:  Become 5*Elite as you not only get Platinum but also 10% bonus on StarPoints conversion.  Buy up high starpoint value timeshare weeks resale and requalify.


But, keep in mind that this is not a deeded benefit.  Who knows who will own Marriott in the future......Things could change..Just saying...


----------



## Denise L (Apr 17, 2018)

Does anyone have advice on whether I need to do anything with my few Marriott Rewards points?  The expiration date on those is November 2018.  I was planning to transfer them to SPG before then to avoid losing them altogether.  Do our current SPG points have a longer life than Marriott points (2 years) without activity?  I mainly transfer SPG points to airlines, so that benefit doesn't seem to be affected with this program unification.  We've used our SPG AMEX for most of our daily purchases ever since we bought our timeshare in 2002.  Is the consensus that this isn't a good idea anymore?  We have the Citibank Costco card now, and get 3% on travel purchases, which seems pretty good.


----------



## VacationForever (Apr 17, 2018)

In August 2018, both SPG rewards account and Marriott rewards account will be combined, presumably a new Acct # or possibly taking on Marriott's account.  After the consolidation, I believe that as long as you continue to have activity with your SPG Amex, the points should not expire.  Please don't take my word and make sure you check it out in August.  From my assessment, everyday spending is still best on SPG Amex, although it will drop from 3X (Marriott's equivalent points) to 2X after August.


----------



## vistana101 (Apr 18, 2018)

canesfan said:


> New Gold is not equivalent to SPG Gold. It has lost lounge access and has an earlier late check out time. I’d hold off the enthusiasm until we see the tiers of hotels & point costs.



Just to clarify, SPG Gold members have never gotten lounge access as a published benefit in Starwood Hotels. For the past few months, SPG Gold members were generously matched to Marriott Gold, which gave them lounge access only on the Marriott side. If you had Marriott Gold for these past couple months, consider it as a bonus!

The new Gold level is very similar to the current SPG Gold. It has significantly less benefits than the existing Marriott Gold, but this is because the stay requirements have gone down significantly, going to 25 nights instead of 50 nights. Marriott's existing gold level is essentially being moved into the new system as Platinum, requiring the same number of nights (50), and the same benefits (plus more!).


----------



## Helios (Apr 18, 2018)

VacationForever said:


> From my assessment, everyday spending is still best on SPG Amex, although it will drop from 3X (Marriott's equivalent points) to 2X after August.


Now it is pretty good, although there are better options specially if you are willing to break everyday spending into mini categories which may even have seasonal bonuses.  The new card will devalue earnings like you said.


----------



## blondietink (Apr 18, 2018)

We have always been told that our SPG points are good for 6 years.  When we use them for anything, like transfer to airlines, we have to make sure they take the oldest points for the transfer.


----------



## Mulege (Apr 18, 2018)

Helios said:


> You may want to look into the Citi Prestige for paid stays...



I was wrong as stated earlier. Still get Fifth night Free under new program.


----------



## canesfan (Apr 18, 2018)

blondietink said:


> We have always been told that our SPG points are good for 6 years.  When we use them for anything, like transfer to airlines, we have to make sure they take the oldest points for the transfer.



How do you even know how old the points are?  I’ve never had an issue with points expiring. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## vistana101 (Apr 18, 2018)

For those who aren't following the speculation thread, here is the page with the details of how the new program affects Vistana owners: https://www.vistana.com/news-faq

-SPG Gold will stay Gold Elite in the new program
-SPG Platinum (from 5* elite) will stay Platinum Elite in the new program
-Point conversions will be multiplied by 3 ("To align, you will receive 3X your current conversion amount when converting your VOI, also starting in August."


----------



## blondietink (Apr 18, 2018)

canesfan said:


> How do you even know how old the points are?  I’ve never had an issue with points expiring.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



If you call them to use your points instead of booking online, they can tell you which points are expiring and when if you ask.


----------



## molly32 (Apr 18, 2018)

zerodegre said:


> The biggest mystery is how the SPG options will transfer to Marriott points. I own 81,000 options with the ability to covert to 42,000 SPG points.  So my question is how many Marriott points for my ownership convert to ??  Anyone call services today and ask!!!?
> 
> If they do not offer 3 to 1 conversion it’s going to be a s$&t show.
> 
> After augustby the way our AMEXSPG for each dollar spent will give you 2 Marriott points




I called today -April 18th- and asked about the starpoint conversion and was told it will be a one time conversion of 3-1 and after that we are apparently out of luck. I mentioned a possible class-action lawsuit because that was the reason we bought in and will not be happy if that isn't addressed.


----------



## gravitar (Apr 18, 2018)

molly32 said:


> I called today -April 18th- and asked about the starpoint conversion and was told it will be a one time conversion of 3-1 and after that we are apparently out of luck. I mentioned a possible class-action lawsuit because that was the reason we bought in and will not be happy if that isn't addressed.


HUCA!

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


----------



## VacationForever (Apr 18, 2018)

molly32 said:


> I called today -April 18th- and asked about the starpoint conversion and was told it will be a one time conversion of 3-1 and after that we are apparently out of luck. I mentioned a possible class-action lawsuit because that was the reason we bought in and will not be happy if that isn't addressed.


It is very apparent to me when I read that after August 1st, all Starpoint will automatically be converted to 3X in the new point system.


----------



## NNerland (Apr 18, 2018)

Thanks for posting the FAQ from Vistana
https://www.vistana.com/news-faq

It appears for 5* who get Platinum there are two small changes - one indifferent and one improved benefit...if my interpretation is correct.

We lose the 72 hour room guarantee - downgrade
5 Suite Night Awards vs OLD required 50 nights to get 10 awards -- upgrade?
     ** we get 5 with our status match OR a gift choice

Also from another message from the Head of the Program - he seemed to indicate we will get points for Spa and other onsite spend we haven't in the past.

My major disappointment or frustration comes from earning Elite NIGHTS on more than 1 room.    When traveling as a family and getting 2 rooms, it is frustrating to only get 1 rooms credit.  However, if we do get 5 SNA's for our new 5* match, I am less worried about it.   I always shot for 50 to get those 10 nights.    Now you need 75 and with only one room credit would be impossible.  If our agreement gives us 5 nights - well that is a good meet in the middle.  IMO Suites should be potentially easier as they only release 5 at 50 and another 5 at 75....that would weed out the pool I would guess.   But again, this is all based on my reading of the chart stating we get a choice of 5 SNA or Gift.

Also under SPG Platinum's used to earn 3 points per $ spent -- which would be 9 in this system.  It will now be 15 points, plus more earning from what I understand (spa, etc)

The AMEX Downgrade from 3 in the system to 2 is a bummer.  But I did hear an interesting stat (true or not) that if you traditionally spent 35,000 or less you are actually earning more on the new card as they will now give you 1 free night (up to 35,000 point property).   I understand it is 35,000 less for Airline transfers and such...but if you use for hotels (like I do most often) then this is kind of a wash.   I can get double on my spend (still) and a free night...so I actually come out ahead as I used primarily to pay dues, for hotels, etc.

My fingers are crossed on the 5 nights SNA that is always a nice bonus for my wife and I our our special trips.


----------



## VacationForever (Apr 18, 2018)

NNerland said:


> Thanks for posting the FAQ from Vistana
> https://www.vistana.com/news-faq
> 
> It appears for 5* who get Platinum there are two small changes - one indifferent and one improved benefit...if my interpretation is correct.
> ...


The way I read is that you need to reach 50 or 75 nights per year before you get the 5 suite award nights at each milestone.  Being Platinum gets you possibility of upgrade only.


----------



## NNerland (Apr 18, 2018)

*The way I read it is below from the Vistana site -- however I would agree 100% if you read "Platinum Elite" on the Marriott Definitions it states this is an earned reward at 50 nights.  My interpertation is that this was negotiated and we would have an annual choice of those 5, perhaps to make up for what we lost???  Just guessing; but I agree on the definition of qualifying through earn on Marriott is slightly different that what they are telling us is our New August Platinum Elite Definition.*

*ARE PLATINUM PREFERRED LEVEL BENEFITS CHANGING?*

Please see comparison chart below:
*CURRENT: PLATINUM PREFERRED* *AUGUST: PLATINUM ELITE*
Stay qualifier waived for 5 Star Elite VSN members                                                         Stay qualifier waived for 5 Star Elite VSN members
50% bonus earning (bonus on earned points)                                                                50% bonus earning (bonus on earned points)
Enhanced Room Upgrade when available, Including standard suites                                  Enhanced Room Upgrade when available, including standard suites
72-hour guarantee                                                                                                       No longer available 
Arrival gift of points, breakfast or amenity                                                                     Arrival gift of up to 500/1000 points or breakfast or amenity (varies by brand, some exclusions apply)
Lounge Access                                                                                                             Lounge Access
No Blackout Dates                                                                                                       No Blackout Dates
P50 Choice: Suite Night Award (SNA) or gift option                                                        *Annual choice option (5 SNAs or gift option) *
Enhanced Wi-Fi                                                                                                           Enhanced Wi-Fi
4 p.m. check-out                                                                                                        4 p.m. check-out


----------



## NNerland (Apr 18, 2018)

Sorry the above to squished together -- had it spaced out per the table on the website.......


----------



## travelfam18 (Apr 18, 2018)

Does this mean anything to an owner of a resale at a voluntary resort?? It doesn’t seem to but I could be wrong.


----------



## duke (Apr 18, 2018)

NNerland said:


> *The way I read it is below from the Vistana site *
> *ARE PLATINUM PREFERRED LEVEL BENEFITS CHANGING?*
> 
> Please see comparison chart below:
> ...



Agree:  THIS IS GREAT!  Number of stays are waived.  We get 5 SuiteNightAwards.
WOW,  Quite an IMPROVED benefit for 5*Elite.


----------



## VacationForever (Apr 18, 2018)

NNerland said:


> *The way I read it is below from the Vistana site -- however I would agree 100% if you read "Platinum Elite" on the Marriott Definitions it states this is an earned reward at 50 nights.  My interpertation is that this was negotiated and we would have an annual choice of those 5, perhaps to make up for what we lost???  Just guessing; but I agree on the definition of qualifying through earn on Marriott is slightly different that what they are telling us is our New August Platinum Elite Definition.*
> 
> *ARE PLATINUM PREFERRED LEVEL BENEFITS CHANGING?*
> 
> ...


I see what you mean. Platinum through Vistana 5 star elite does not require 50 nights stay to qualify for 5 nights suite awards.


----------



## VacationForever (Apr 18, 2018)

travelfam18 said:


> Does this mean anything to an owner of a resale at a voluntary resort?? It doesn’t seem to but I could be wrong.


No change to Vistana voluntary owner as far as Vistana elite perks go, but you still get the new points earnings table for spendings, the multiplier being dependent of your Elite status in however you have acquired.  For instance if you get Platinum through Marriott, that status gives greater bonuses on Vistana/Marriott spendings.


----------



## molly32 (Apr 18, 2018)

molly32 said:


> I called today -April 18th- and asked about the starpoint conversion and was told it will be a one time conversion of 3-1 and after that we are apparently out of luck. I mentioned a possible class-action lawsuit because that was the reason we bought in and will not be happy if that isn't addressed.


Now we just got an email saying they will do a one time conversion of current points and going forward they will do a 3-1 from here on out. I must not have been the only one to complain...


----------



## duke (Apr 18, 2018)

Can you please direct me to where on the Marriott site it shows 5*Elite and therefore Platinum gets SuiteNightAwards?  I am 5*Elite and Platinum but I don't see it.


----------



## KevSki (Apr 18, 2018)

duke said:


> Can you please direct me to where on the Marriott site it shows 5*Elite and therefore Platinum gets SuiteNightAwards?  I am 5*Elite and Platinum but I don't see it.


It’s in the FAQ on Vistana’s website.


----------



## dioxide45 (Apr 18, 2018)

duke said:


> Can you please direct me to where on the Marriott site it shows 5*Elite and therefore Platinum gets SuiteNightAwards?  I am 5*Elite and Platinum but I don't see it.


It is listed in the chart here. Though we don't know if ownership based status gets Suite Night Awards as there is a caveat also listed "Awarded with 50 qualifying nights". You may not get the Suite Night Awards if you don't actually get to the required nights each year.

Edited to add: I stand corrected on the above as I see this in the Vistana FAQ linked above "Stay qualifier waived for 5 Star Elite VSN members"


----------



## duke (Apr 18, 2018)

dioxide45 said:


> "Stay qualifier waived for 5 Star Elite VSN members"


Yes I see it but Not sure what it actually means.
Does it mean - Stay qualifier waived to get Platinum or waived for the 50 night requirement too?
When I go to the SPG web site it says I am Platinum but when I click on to get my 50 night bonus it says I am not eligible.
Please advise?


----------



## VacationForever (Apr 18, 2018)

duke said:


> Yes I see it but Not sure what it actually means.
> Does it mean - Stay qualifier waived to get Platinum or waived for the 50 night requirement too?
> When I go to the SPG web site it says I am Platinum but when I click on to get my 50 night bonus it says I am not eligible.
> Please advise?


It is not yet August 2018.


----------



## vistana101 (Apr 18, 2018)

Unfortunately, nothing about timeshare nights counting towards status


----------



## VacationForever (Apr 18, 2018)

vistana101 said:


> Unfortunately, nothing about timeshare nights counting towards status


You mean in future for Vistana?  It has not counted up till now.  Is it stated somewhere that it continues to be so in the future?  As you may know, up to this point in time, stays at Marriott resorts count towards status.


----------



## dioxide45 (Apr 18, 2018)

duke said:


> Yes I see it but Not sure what it actually means.
> Does it mean - Stay qualifier waived to get Platinum or waived for the 50 night requirement too?
> When I go to the SPG web site it says I am Platinum but when I click on to get my 50 night bonus it says I am not eligible.
> Please advise?


I think it means you don't need to actually stay the 50 nights to get the 5 Suite Night Awards. The program officially doesn't change until August 1, so you may have those Suite Night Awards after that date.


----------



## Ken555 (Apr 18, 2018)

Did I read correctly that there will no longer be a free 5th night at hotels using points? If so, that's another reduction of benefits for me... along with the 33% reduction in credit card earnings, this program may well be out of the running for me. Most of my SP stays are 5-nights for this benefit.


----------



## sb2313 (Apr 18, 2018)

Ken555 said:


> Did I read correctly that there will no longer be a free 5th night at hotels using points? If so, that's another reduction of benefits for me... along with the 33% reduction in credit card earnings, this program may well be out of the running for me. Most of my SP stays are 5-nights for this benefit.


I believe that it’s been confirmed the fifth night free stays. I’ll have to find the article again as I’ve read so many last couple of days, but I’m 99% sure it stays.


----------



## Ken555 (Apr 18, 2018)

sb2313 said:


> I believe that it’s been confirmed the fifth night free stays. I’ll have to find the article again as I’ve read so many last couple of days, but I’m 99% sure it stays.



Excellent. Thanks for posting.


----------



## rog2867 (Apr 18, 2018)

so are we saying here that if I convert my week to points going forward I get 3x the points so in essence it really just stays the same?


----------



## rog2867 (Apr 18, 2018)

Dear Owner,

As a benefit of membership within the Vistana Signature Network™, Owners receive Elite status in the Starwood Preferred Guest® program and access to an award-winning global portfolio of hotels and resorts, unique experiences and rich redemption possibilities. 

Good news. Marriott International recently announced that beginning August 2018, its loyalty brands — Marriott Rewards®, SPG®, and The Ritz-Carlton Rewards® — will come together as one powerful program. For now, individual program names will stay the same until 2019, but everything else will be consolidated. 

With the opportunity to leverage the best of all programs, we want to take this opportunity to share what these exciting changes mean for you.

*How does this affect Owners?*

  •  To align trading values in the combined program, your Starpoints® balance will be multiplied by 3 with a one-time adjustment in August.
  •  Whether you own one of our weeks products or new points products, your conversion value will also be adjusted to reflect the new 1:3 change.
  •  Owners will retain their existing SPG Gold- or Platinum-level status with loyalty benefits remaining largely intact.
  •  The ability to convert a weeks or points product into Starpoints, along with the applicable rules, will remain the same.

*Program highlights*

  •  Earn and redeem points at more than 6,500 hotels across 29 brands with no blackout dates. Ever.
  •  Simplify your experience with one loyalty account, profile, login and points balance.
  •  Members will earn ten points for every dollar spent at all brands except for Residence Inn®, TownePlace Suites® and Element℠ which will be five points per every dollar spent.
  •  Access more airline partners than ever before and transfer points to frequent-flyer miles with the new ratio of three points for one mile.

Your new benefits will take effect starting in August. If you have yet to do so, we encourage all Owners with a Marriott Rewards account to link it to their SPG account to discover all the opportunities that come along with transferring points between accounts and status match. 

Thank you for your continued loyalty. For a full list of FAQs, *click here*. If you have any additional questions, please contact Owner Services at *800-847-8262*. 

We will update you as more information becomes available. 

Regards, 




Stephen G. Williams 
Chief Commercial Officer


----------



## rog2867 (Apr 18, 2018)

rog2867 said:


> so are we saying here that if I convert my week to points going forward I get 3x the points so in essence it really just stays the same?


guess this answers that

*WHEN CONVERTING MY VOI TO POINTS WILL I RECEIVE THE SAME AMOUNT OF POINTS?*

One of the features that is changing as the reward programs combine is hotel redemption values. Standard hotel stays will generally require 3X the points in the combined program, starting in August. To align, you will receive 3X your current conversion amount when converting your VOI, also starting in August.


----------



## VacationForever (Apr 18, 2018)

rog2867 said:


> so are we saying here that if I convert my week to points going forward I get 3x the points so in essence it really just stays the same?


Yes, from conversion perspective.  But for regarding the value of points, until Marriott publishes the redemption rates by hotel categories and travel packages, we do not know if there is devaluation.


----------



## Dawnwrey (Apr 18, 2018)

rog2867 said:


> so are we saying here that if I convert my week to points going forward I get 3x the points so in essence it really just stays the same?



That is correct.


----------



## dioxide45 (Apr 18, 2018)

Ken555 said:


> Did I read correctly that there will no longer be a free 5th night at hotels using points? If so, that's another reduction of benefits for me... along with the 33% reduction in credit card earnings, this program may well be out of the running for me. Most of my SP stays are 5-nights for this benefit.


From the FAQ link in the email.

*WILL “STAY 4 NIGHTS AND GET THE 5TH NIGHT FREE” STILL BE A BENEFIT WITH HOTEL POINT REDEMPTION?*

Yes; at every category level (1-8), redeem 4 nights and get the 5th night free (5 nights for the price of 4)


----------



## Ken555 (Apr 18, 2018)

dioxide45 said:


> From the FAQ link in the email.
> 
> *WILL “STAY 4 NIGHTS AND GET THE 5TH NIGHT FREE” STILL BE A BENEFIT WITH HOTEL POINT REDEMPTION?*
> 
> Yes; at every category level (1-8), redeem 4 nights and get the 5th night free (5 nights for the price of 4)



Actually, this is an improvement. SPG only allowed the free night with category 3+. Of course, it's not often to stay at a cat 1-2 for five nights, but still...


----------



## vistana101 (Apr 18, 2018)

VacationForever said:


> You mean in future for Vistana?  It has not counted up till now.  Is it stated somewhere that it continues to be so in the future?  As you may know, up to this point in time, stays at Marriott resorts count towards status.



Yes, I was wondering if with this new program, they would adopt MVC's policy of counting timeshare nights towards elite status levels, but it appears not. Can't win 'em all!


----------



## VacationForever (Apr 19, 2018)

vistana101 said:


> Yes, I was wondering if with this new program, they would adopt MVC's policy of counting timeshare nights towards elite status levels, but it appears not. Can't win 'em all!


Has it been documented that it won't?


----------



## vistana101 (Apr 19, 2018)

VacationForever said:


> Has it been documented that it won't?



I guess there hasn't been official documentation about a change to count those nights, no. I would assume this would be the time where they would announce that positive owner benefit to coincide with the announcement of the new program? But maybe it could happen in the future, who knows.


----------



## duke (Apr 19, 2018)

Given the Vistana FAQ and the inability to generate lots of Points via credit card spend (33% reduction to everyday) makes becoming 5*Elite and requalifying resales more valuable.  Look at SMV resale - get you 85,800 SPG starpoints X 3 = 257,400 new Marriott Points X 1.1 = 283,140 new Marriott Points each year for a $1,500 maint fee. (The 1.1 multiplier is the 10% bonus for 5*Elite).  For example:  That gets you a 7 night  Cat 1-5 Marriott Travel Package AND 120,000 airline points.  (Again, Points are not going to be easy to earn via credit card spend)


----------



## NNerland (Apr 19, 2018)

duke said:


> Given the Vistana FAQ and the inability to generate lots of Points via credit card spend (33% reduction to everyday) makes becoming 5*Elite and requalifying resales more valuable.  Look at SMV resale - get you 85,800 SPG starpoints X 3 = 257,400 new Marriott Points X 1.1 = 283,140 new Marriott Points each year for a $1,500 maint fee. (The 1.1 multiplier is the 10% bonus for 5*Elite).  For example:  That gets you a 7 night  Cat 1-5 Marriott Travel Package AND 120,000 airline points.  (Again, Points are not going to be easy to earn via credit card spend)



You would have to requalify or buy from developer to get that.  You may have a Mandatory Vistana SMV, however I understand that ONLY the OPTIONS are portable on the Mandatory property.  Meaning you can "go to Hawaii" if you can get a reservation with cheap dues; but you can't convert to Hotel Points....Unless you requalify?

Please correct me if I am wrong.  I have looked lately too at some options for this - but you always need to spend some more money with developer so need to decide if the $20k investment is worth it.  Can you make up enough value.


----------



## VacationForever (Apr 19, 2018)

NNerland said:


> You would have to requalify or buy from developer to get that.  You may have a Mandatory Vistana SMV, however I understand that ONLY the OPTIONS are portable on the Mandatory property.  Meaning you can "go to Hawaii" if you can get a reservation with cheap dues; but you can't convert to Hotel Points....Unless you requalify?
> 
> Please correct me if I am wrong.  I have looked lately too at some options for this - but you always need to spend some more money with developer so need to decide if the $20k investment is worth it.  Can you make up enough value.


SMV is voluntary.  In order to get starpoints conversion through re-qualification. Vistana generally requires 20K new money with a new purchase.


----------



## DavidnRobin (Apr 19, 2018)

duke said:


> Given the Vistana FAQ and the inability to generate lots of Points via credit card spend (33% reduction to everyday) makes becoming 5*Elite and requalifying resales more valuable.  Look at SMV resale - get you 85,800 SPG starpoints X 3 = 257,400 new Marriott Points X 1.1 = 283,140 new Marriott Points each year for a $1,500 maint fee. (The 1.1 multiplier is the 10% bonus for 5*Elite).  For example:  That gets you a 7 night  Cat 1-5 Marriott Travel Package AND 120,000 airline points.  (Again, Points are not going to be easy to earn via credit card spend)



A Cat 5 Marriott is not equalvalent to a Cat 5 SPG.  In looking at Marriott hotels previously, I found Starwood hotels (at the same relative points at 3:1) to be a better value for the cities we were looking at to visit (e.g. NYC and New Orleans).  I actually converted SPs to Marriott points (@3:1) and exchanged them back.  I plan to use my SPs (bought at 1.65c/SP thru the WSJ deal) prior to the conversion.  IMO - these points will be devalued after the conversion.  There are no Cat 5 Marriotts that I would stay at unless no other choice.

I am primarily using points from the CSR card for travel - and will bring my SPs down to zero by using them before Aug.  In my view - conversion of a Timeshare week for majority of VSE resorts is still not a good deal even with a 10% bonus. IMO YMMV


----------



## duke (Apr 19, 2018)

DavidnRobin said:


> A Cat 5 Marriott is not equalvalent to a Cat 5 SPG.  There are no Cat 5 Marriotts that I would stay at unless no other choice.
> I am primarily using points from the CSR card for travel - and will bring my SPs down to zero by using them before Aug.  In my view - conversion of a Timeshare week for majority of VSE resorts is still not a good deal even with a 10% bonus. IMO YMMV



In the Marriott Travel Packages you can add Points to get to any level Hotel/Resort you desire.  You do not have to stay at Cat5.

Of course, using the Timeshare is best deal HOWEVER, the issue here is that since Points are more difficult to earn via credit card ..... the ability to use Timeshare with Requalify is becoming a better deal.


----------



## dioxide45 (Apr 19, 2018)

DavidnRobin said:


> A Cat 5 Marriott is not equalvalent to a Cat 5 SPG.  In looking at Marriott hotels previously, I found Starwood hotels (at the same relative points at 3:1) to be a better value for the cities we were looking at to visit (e.g. NYC and New Orleans).  I actually converted SPs to Marriott points (@3:1) and exchanged them back.  I plan to use my SPs (bought at 1.65c/SP thru the WSJ deal) prior to the conversion.  IMO - these points will be devalued after the conversion.  There are no Cat 5 Marriotts that I would stay at unless no other choice.
> 
> I am primarily using points from the CSR card for travel - and will bring my SPs down to zero by using them before Aug.  In my view - conversion of a Timeshare week for majority of VSE resorts is still not a good deal even with a 10% bonus. IMO YMMV


An SPG Category 5 starts out at 12,000 SPG points or 36,000 MR points. Marriott Rewards Cat 5 start out at 20,000. Comparing the two is like apples and oranges. There is a reason the Marriott category 5 are not up to the same level as SPG category 5, because they aren't the same. SPG only goes up to category 7, where MR goes up to 9. It is like comparing zero degrees Celsius to zero degrees Fahrenheit.


----------



## Ken555 (Apr 19, 2018)

duke said:


> Of course, using the Timeshare is best deal HOWEVER, the issue here is that since Points are more difficult to earn via credit card ..... the ability to use Timeshare with Requalify is becoming a better deal.



Everything is relative, so sure it’s going to be 1% or so better than before to use timeshare conversion to Hotel points. Still quite bad for most.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## Ken555 (Apr 19, 2018)

dioxide45 said:


> An SPG Category 5 starts out at 12,000 SPG points or 36,000 MR points. Marriott Rewards Cat 5 start out at 20,000. Comparing the two is like apples and oranges. There is a reason the Marriott category 5 are not up to the same level as SPG category 5, because they aren't the same. SPG only goes up to category 7, where MR goes up to 9. It is like comparing zero degrees Celsius to zero degrees Fahrenheit.



Um...unlike Marriott hotels to Starwood hotels, there is an empirical method for comparing Celsius to Fahrenheit. This isn’t an opinion. It’s a fact. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## Sapper (Apr 19, 2018)

Ken555 said:


> Um...unlike Marriott hotels to Starwood hotels, there is an empirical method for comparing Celsius to Fahrenheit. This isn’t an opinion. It’s a fact.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk



I think what he was trying to say is even though both C and F would indicate "0 degrees", they are in fact different tempratures. Ie, 0F <unequal sign> 0C is analogous to Marriott Cat 5 <unequal sign> SPG Cat 5.


----------



## Ken555 (Apr 19, 2018)

Sapper said:


> I think what he was trying to say is even though both C and F would indicate "0 degrees", they are in fact different tempratures. Ie, 0F <unequal sign> 0C is analogous to Marriott Cat 5 <unequal sign> SPG Cat 5.



Haha! Of course that’s what he was trying to say. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## dioxide45 (Apr 19, 2018)

Sapper said:


> <unequal sign>


You could also just use <> to indicate not equal to, but my experience is that many people have no idea what <> means.


----------



## DavidnRobin (Apr 19, 2018)

dioxide45 said:


> An SPG Category 5 starts out at 12,000 SPG points or 36,000 MR points. Marriott Rewards Cat 5 start out at 20,000. Comparing the two is like apples and oranges. There is a reason the Marriott category 5 are not up to the same level as SPG category 5, because they aren't the same. SPG only goes up to category 7, where MR goes up to 9. It is like comparing zero degrees Celsius to zero degrees Fahrenheit.



I understood that - I ended up looking at MAR Cat8-9 and found them too much compared to the 3x SPs.
Thanks for explaining the obvious...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## dioxide45 (Apr 19, 2018)

DavidnRobin said:


> Thanks for explaining the obvious...


My pleasure


----------



## DavidnRobin (Apr 19, 2018)

Ken555 said:


> Everything is relative, so sure it’s going to be 1% or so better than before to use timeshare conversion to Hotel points. Still quite bad for most.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk



To be more clear - comparing the SP conversion when using SPs from many (WVC and Harboside ) - easier to compare to Mar Cat7-8+.  That conversion does not look as good.  I found for me that the SP usage was better.

Didn’t mean anything about it - just that 5* is worth it for the very few - especially (if true) the bring in cash increased (as per other thread).

What happens if we convert to degrees Kelvin?  


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Sapper (Apr 19, 2018)

Ken555 said:


> Haha! Of course that’s what he was trying to say.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk



Sorry, sometimes it's tough to pick up the sarcasm on the Internet.


----------



## Sapper (Apr 19, 2018)

dioxide45 said:


> You could also just use <> to indicate not equal to, but my experience is that many people have no idea what <> means.



I thought of that after spending a few minutes searching the web on how to do an unequal sign with an out of date iPad.


----------



## NNerland (Apr 24, 2018)

Categories for the new award chart in 6 Cities published as promised.  This will be the standard redemption rates, they will come up with Low and High Season in 2019.   They also only go to Category 7 from August to December, and then in 2019 they will have a Category 8.

https://www.doctorofcredit.com/marr...properties-in-top-5-markets-award-categories/

I am familiar with NYC market some from travel - Sheraton goes up in Times Square, was a nice value play for location.   Most others go down.    Mexico has a few adjustments, but nothing too major that I saw.

I would say so far - things are decent and it could have been way worse.


----------



## NNerland (Apr 24, 2018)

Easier to Read Link on the 100 properties released -- again these are MAJOR tourist areas....will be interesting to see more of the every day options in July/August

https://thepointsguy.com/news/marriott-new-redemption-rates/


----------



## controller1 (Apr 26, 2018)

I've not seen this discussed in this thread or on FlyerTalk.  I've just posted the following on FlyerTalk to be addressed by the Starwood Lurker.  I've also sent this to Vistana to see what their answer is.  I'll report back when I receive a response:

The current T&C of the ability to transfer SPG Starpoints to Marriott Reward Points state: Starpoints earned through an interest in a Vistana™ Signature Experiences property, and Rewards Points earned through an interest in a Marriott Vacation Club® property cannot be transferred between the Programs.

When the 1:3 conversion of Starpoints to Points occurs in August, will the Starpoints earned through an interest in a Vistana™ Signature Experiences property also be converted?


----------



## gravitar (Apr 26, 2018)

I would say they transfer. They are transferring to points in a new combined program rather than being converted to membership rewards points in the existing MR program.... but what do i know. 

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


----------



## VacationForever (Apr 26, 2018)

controller1 said:


> I've not seen this discussed in this thread or on FlyerTalk.  I've just posted the following on FlyerTalk to be addressed by the Starwood Lurker.  I've also sent this to Vistana to see what their answer is.  I'll report back when I receive a response:
> 
> The current T&C of the ability to transfer SPG Starpoints to Marriott Reward Points state: Starpoints earned through an interest in a Vistana™ Signature Experiences property, and Rewards Points earned through an interest in a Marriott Vacation Club® property cannot be transferred between the Programs.
> 
> When the 1:3 conversion of Starpoints to Points occurs in August, will the Starpoints earned through an interest in a Vistana™ Signature Experiences property also be converted?


I have been transferring my Starpoints, earned and converted from my Vistana timeshare, to MRPs without any issue.  With the new combined system it is an affirmation that there are no restrictions since all points will be combined.


----------



## NNerland (Apr 26, 2018)

controller1 said:


> I've not seen this discussed in this thread or on FlyerTalk.  I've just posted the following on FlyerTalk to be addressed by the Starwood Lurker.  I've also sent this to Vistana to see what their answer is.  I'll report back when I receive a response:
> 
> The current T&C of the ability to transfer SPG Starpoints to Marriott Reward Points state: Starpoints earned through an interest in a Vistana™ Signature Experiences property, and Rewards Points earned through an interest in a Marriott Vacation Club® property cannot be transferred between the Programs.
> 
> When the 1:3 conversion of Starpoints to Points occurs in August, will the Starpoints earned through an interest in a Vistana™ Signature Experiences property also be converted?




This is not an issue.  There was wording during the time where you could move points back and forth that you couldn't do that when they initially announced 3:1 a two years ago.  I can tell you I never had any issues moving back and forth and I moved over 600,000 points back and forth and never once was rejected or had issue.   However, it is a COMPLETELY moot point come August 1st.   Vistana has clearly laid out that our converted Options to Points will convert at 3 times the SPG value going forward, and SPG points will be converted 3:1 to the new bucket.    You should have no concerns going forward.   Visit Vistana's page for more information.


----------



## controller1 (Apr 26, 2018)

controller1 said:


> I've not seen this discussed in this thread or on FlyerTalk.  I've just posted the following on FlyerTalk to be addressed by the Starwood Lurker.  I've also sent this to Vistana to see what their answer is.  I'll report back when I receive a response:
> 
> The current T&C of the ability to transfer SPG Starpoints to Marriott Reward Points state: Starpoints earned through an interest in a Vistana™ Signature Experiences property, and Rewards Points earned through an interest in a Marriott Vacation Club® property cannot be transferred between the Programs.
> 
> When the 1:3 conversion of Starpoints to Points occurs in August, will the Starpoints earned through an interest in a Vistana™ Signature Experiences property also be converted?



Even though some of you said not to worry and that you have been able to freely transfer your current Starpoints from Vistana conversions, the T&C I quoted is still the current T&C.  I'm a belt & suspenders type so I wanted to be sure.  Also, I see nothing on Vistana's page addressing this.

For an update, I just received a reply from Vistana.  And yes, I have nothing to worry about.  This is the pertinent  excerpt from that email:  "Any Starpoints you receive from a conversion that takes place prior to the merger will be adjusted and multiplied by three within your account after the merger is complete as well."


----------

