# Villa de Palmer Group question



## korndoc (Dec 7, 2010)

We just spent a week in Puerto Vallarta at the Villa de Palmer Flamingo.  We previously spent 5 days on a promotion at the Villa De Palmer Los Arcos in Cabo.  Both were lovely and we enjoyed ourselves and would consider buying.

Recently I have come across a couple ads for the Flamingo in PV where the units were practically being given away.  Anyone know why?  Just 2 individuals needing to unload or is there something going on I am not aware of?

Thanks, 
Jeff


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## bellesgirl (Dec 7, 2010)

If you look on ebay you will see that most TS units are being given away.  It has much more to do with the economy than anything else.  We own at the VDM in PV and love it.  Not aware of any problems with the VDP group.


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## beach.bar.bob (Dec 7, 2010)

*Supply and demand...*

This is a timeshare industry issue not a Villa del Palmar issue...

Spend some time poking around here and you will see a pretty consistent message of very low purchase prices on resales.  After all, you are paying to acquire a long term liability...the annual maintenance fees. Plus, many timeshare owners have been adversely impacted by the economy and need to get away from the liability plus changing family/health situations all contribute to the issue...not to mention the negative news almost every day from Mexico on the drug related issues...all these contribute to dampening the resale market.   

That said, I own two units thru UVC (Universal Vacation Club) the club that runs/manages the Villa Group timeshares...this includes Villa del Palmar Puerto Vallarta, Flamingos, Cabo and Villa del Arco as well as two new locations - Cancun and Loretto.  The Cancun location opens at the end of December.  We visited it last month during a stay in Cancun...it is located on Playa Mujeures and is even nicer than Flamingos and Arco.  

I'm a fan of this group...as long as you can plan long term...availability in the more desirable locations especially Arco is a problem if you can not reserve 14-24 months in advance (advantage of a VPA or Gold membership). For us, this in not an issue thus we haven't experienced the negatives others have expressed in the past.  In fact, I am actively pursue the acquisition of at least one additional unit - resale of course.  

In terms of the resale market - recent eBay sales...actual sales observed on the completed listings - part of my research before my own recent resale purchase of my second unit...never again will I buy from the developer:  
 - Two, two bedroom, Winter, Gold memberships for approx $1,500 
 - One, two bedroom, Winter, Gold membership for two weeks for approx $3,000
- Three to four, one bedroom, Winter Gold memberships for approx $200 
- One VPA (points) membership for 2,200 points (equivalent to winter 1 bedroom) for $800.
- Almost all summer month memberships of any size have gone unsold or sold for $1. 
- The same for the Premier memberships...they can be had for a song...or a $1. 

I'm happy to help with other questions, issues...I have copies of all the eBay completed listings if you need more details. 

Good luck

bbb


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## korndoc (Dec 8, 2010)

Thanks to both of you.  Question:  Which is a better deal?
           - 2 single bedroom Gold memberships at Flamingo for $1000 total, with approx.$1600 total MF
           - 1 two bedroom Gold membership at Los Arcos for $2000, with approx. $920 MF

I have 2 grown kids that I would hope would occasionally be able to join us, or perhaps friends.  If not, then we would travel just the 2 of us.  We are a 2.5 hour flight from PV and less from Cabo.  (we like PV better than Cabo and would probably go there more often as there seems to be more to do, but did like the Cabo Los Arcos a bit better than Flamingo in PV...but not much)

Thanks,
Jeff


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## judy23 (Dec 8, 2010)

We own a 1br at Flamingo's in Nuervo. Mtce fee $835. It accomodates four people very well. It has 2 full baths and a murphy bed and have had 4 adults very comfortably. Everyone says the murphy beds are comfortable


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## beach.bar.bob (Dec 8, 2010)

*Just my opinion...*

Hi Jeff - 

First off, understand that with a "Gold" membership you are NOT buying into a location.  Though you may find the membership marketed as an Arco unit or a Flamingos unit, they have the same membership privileges at all the Villa Group locations including the two new properties in Cancun and Lorreto.  You are buying a membership into the floating inventory of all rooms across all properties with equal rights to all other Gold memberships.  Thus, my earlier comments about planning far enough in advance to make reservations at the more attractive properties (to me - others love the original properties in PV and Cabo - we prefer the new locations). It's my observation after many pool/bar conversations with other members that many owners don't really understand what they own.  

The most current memberships being sold are called VPA = Villa Preferred Access memberships.  I own this level...it is a points based system with a "little" bit more flexibility than a Gold membership...but not enough to worry about. I'm considering adding one more 2 bdr winter unit and it will most likely be a Gold membership...which does not bother me. 

Before deciding on one 2 bdr unit or 2 1 bdr units make sure you understand the capabilities of the Gold membership.  For example, all the 2 bdr units have a lockoff...Meaning that the 2 bdr unit can be broken apart into a one bdr unit with master bdr with separate full  kitchen/dining living area with 2nd and bath and washer/dryer and a studio unit with 2 queen beds and limited kitchen area bath... Thus, you can use your membership as a 2 bdr or separate it and use one week as a 1 bdr and one week as a studio.  Also, you can bank 5  years into the future...thus if you don't use your week this year, you can save it into the future and use two weeks some year down the road...likewise, you can borrow up to 5 years into the future...thus you could borrow into the future and reserve 5 weeks next year.  

See the UVC website for more info http://www.myuvc.com/ 
The Member Service tab will point you to the reservations process etc.  This page describes the VPA plan...keep in mind that the Gold membership has "almost" all the same capabilities.  It is primarily the same plan just units based versus points based.

In terms of your decision, that's up to you of course.  My thoughts are this:  
 - Remember you are buying a future liability...those MA fees go on for 25-30 years into the future...1600 vs 920?
- Thus, do you really plan to spend two weeks at a Villa Group resort every year?  If not, consider just buying one unit...don't get all excited about the great price for two units...it's not the initial price it's the ongoing expense...
- Keeping in mind the lockoff capability and banking/borrowing capability ... does a single 2 bdr unit really give you what you need? 
- Don't plan on a steady income stream from renting if you don't use...you might be able to, but do not consider it as fundamental component of your decision process. 
- Don't buy the second week with the consideration of using one for exchanging...you don't need to.   The Gold membership includes the right to use a "gold" week (or bonus week or what we consider an optional week) which is a summer season week that you can use or exchange if you pay an additional MA fee.  This week exchanges as a Red (or high season) week with Interval Int'l.  We have had very good success exchanging our optional week via Interval Int'l. 

In the end, choose your desired option, offer less than they are asking, make sure all fees/loans are paid in full, ensure it is a Winter membership, not a summer week "you can upgrade to a winter week for a small fee" ... almost impossible during high season - don't count on it.  Also, make sure you understand your first year of usage and the year the contract expires.

Also visit this site for more insight into UVC...you will find it a bit negative, but most of that revolves around members' discontent with their ability to make reservations in their desired properties (primarily Arco) with short notice and with the timeshare sales process/reps.  My personal experience is that if you plan at least 12 months in advance you can get what you want...in 2011 we have two weeks in Feb and one week in March at Arco - in 2012 we have the same...no problems with availability, but again, we are able to plan far in advance.  This site has gone pretty inactive for the last year or so...but some good info...see especially the comparison of Gold versus VPA memberships.  It's right on.  

http://www.universalvacationclubmembers.com/

Good luck. 

bbb


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## easyrider (Dec 8, 2010)

The best way to buy UVC is to buy a floating Premiere membership on Ebay for a buck. The RTU is half used up with 14 - 16 years left so your not stuck with it forever. The mf for a one bed is about $500.00 and you can reserve at all UVC locations.

The newer resorts in UVC are lock off with a two bed unit but VDP Cabo and VDP PV are just two bedrooms. The mf for a premiere two bed is under $600.00.

Gold memberships have a two month extra window to reserve a room at all resorts. The mf and RTU are longer and higher with all units.

Villa Access Points are not worth having imo, unless your buying resale. Even then it doesn't really make a difference as its pretty easy to book weeks at all resorts if you book out at least 8 months ahead. The newest resorts in Cancun and Loreto will be as nice as the Arco and Flamigo as soon as the entire resorts are finished. 

Depending on the day you reserve you will find availability changes from week to week for all members.


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## bellesgirl (Dec 8, 2010)

easyrider said:


> The best way to buy UVC is to buy a floating Premiere membership on Ebay for a buck. The RTU is half used up with 14 - 16 years left so your not stuck with it forever. The mf for a one bed is about $500.00 and you can reserve at all UVC locations.


Does it matter what season you buy?  Can you exchange internally for a winter week if you own the weeks 18-47 membership that everyone seems to want to unload?


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## easyrider (Dec 8, 2010)

bellesgirl said:


> Does it matter what season you buy?  Can you exchange internally for a winter week if you own the weeks 18-47 membership that everyone seems to want to unload?



Winter weeks will trade into summer but summer weeks cost about hald a mf to change to winter. Im not sure of the exact cost for season trades but we did check into that before buying our winter weeks. I only buy winter premiere floating weeks at UVC.

This is how it adds up.

http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=135084&highlight=universal+vacation+club

bbb have you upgraded to Villa Access or did you buy a Villa Access membership ? Also, it does matter what home resort is named on your contract for premiere and gold members because you can reserve 24 months out in your home resort.

Another thing about access points is that I can see how a VPA member could reserve studio, one bed and two bed but most 3 bed with UVC seem to be fixed weeks. How would you get inventory that is unavailable even if you had enough points ? At the new resorts the inventory of rooms for member use is determind by how many members buy inventory of each size of room. Since VPA members are buying all room sizes with points it would seem that they should be able to reserve the 3 bed penthouse at the new resorts with points.  

Does anyone know how many points it takes to get a 3 bed suite ? or if its posible ?


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## beach.bar.bob (Dec 9, 2010)

*more..*

Easyrider:

I have two VPA memberships...I bought my first unit as a Gold membership from the developer ...see my reply to your earlier thread for the back story on how I upgraded to VPA...net cost was $1,550 versus $10,000 plus quoted by sales staff...
http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=135084

Thus I have experience as both a Gold and a VPA membership...having owned both. 

My second VPA was purchased on ebay for hundreds of dollars.  I will not buy another TS from a developer ever again.  

I wholeheartedly agree with you that the VPA membership offers little value over a Gold membership.  It's primarily a points-based version of the Gold membership which is a unit or if you will a week-based membership.  It's what they are selling now, but I find it hard to believe many people are paying the large upgrade fees they are asking. 

I will point out that the difference for making reservations for a Gold membership versus a Premier membership is 14 months, not 2 months across all resorts.  Both Gold and VPA members can make reservations at any resort 24 months in advance - there is no such concept as a "home resort" for either Gold or VPA memberships.  As I live in a cold weather state and know that I want to get away every winter I routinely make our reservations 20-24 months out.  From the UVC site (link in earlier message):
_Ability to make reservations up to 24 months in advance at any Universal Vacation Club Resorts* _

I also agree with you that the new Cancun and Loretto resort will be nice.  We visited the new Cancun resort last month during a stay in Cancun. The first phase opens at the end of the month.  We toured the site and a couple of rooms.  It is stunning.  

bellesgirl: 

If you buy a Gold membership, I think it does matter if you buy winter versus summer...I would recommend against summer unless that is when you want to visit.  I have no first hand knowledge of Premier membership policies - but I agree with easyrider that you should buy winter weeks if that is what you want to use.   

With a VPA points membership a point is a point...there are no winter or summer points so if you have enough points you can reserve a winter 2 bdr or a penthouse or whatever.  This is the one tangible value of a VPA membership over a Gold membership that I can really see.  The only limitation is Holiday weeks...there is such limited availability that those that bought at the holiday level of points have priority.  VPA (via additional points) and Gold (via paying an additional fee) can upgrade to Holiday weeks but only within 60 days of the requested stay... 

With a Gold membership you can upgrade from summer to winter or from a smaller to larger unit (e.g., studio to two bdr) ... or both by paying an upgrade fee.  I have a copy of the published upgrade fee matrix.  But, and this is a big but, upgrades at Arco and Flamingos (and surely Cancun and Lorreto) are only allowed within 60 days of the intended stay.

Here is the applicable guidelines from the UVC site (link included in earlier message): 
_"Unit Upgrades / Seasonal Upgrades
You may trade your unit type and/or travel in a season other than the one to which you have use rights, subject to availability and fees. If you do make a unit or season upgrade and then have to cancel it, you would be refunded your fee less the cancellation penalty.
Deadlines/Terms:
Subject to availability. *PV 2 Bedrooms and any upgrades in Cabo & Flamingos are allowed 60 days or less in advance.*
Contact the Club office with your request, as restrictions do apply to this benefit.
Fee's:
The fee is based upon the value difference between your unit type and the one you are requesting" _

This is a challenge if you want to stay at Arco (or Flamingos/Cancun/Lorreto) during peak season.  It is extremely unlikely that you will find availability during the peak season within a 60 day window in those resorts.  

enjoy

bbb


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## easyrider (Dec 9, 2010)

RESERVATION STATUS
PREMIER - May request reservations for weeks at the primary use resort commencing 24 months prior to the commencement of the week being sought.. To be guaranteed this right, the request must be during the first two months of the 24 month period.

PREMIER - May request reservations for weeks at all the other projects commencing 10 months prior to the commencement of the week being sought. 

GOLD - May request a reservation for weeks at any of the projects commencing 24 months prior to the commencement of the week being sought and receive priority during the first 13 months of such 24 month period. To be guaranteed this right, the request must be during the first 13 months of the 24 month period. This is not a guarantee of a reservation at a specific resort. 

PREFERRED ACCESS – There is no documentation in the Bylaws addressing this, but I would assume the same applies as in Gold.

___________________________________________________
bbb does your gold membership have a home resort ? My premiere memberships have PV, Cabo and Flamigos as home resrots that I can reserve 24 months out as described above.

Does the VPA come with a home resort ?

Thanks for the info.


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## korndoc (Dec 9, 2010)

beach.bar.bob said:


> Also visit this site for more insight into UVC...you will find it a bit negative,
> 
> http://www.universalvacationclubmembers.com/


A bit negative! Was Katrina a bit of rain?  
This guy basically questions where all the bonus weeks are coming from. He feels these weeks are being taken away from the available pool for members who want to go to the resort.  As a result, it is often difficult to make a reservation.   He also feels that the Developer is renting out those bonus weeks for a MF, but then keeps the profit rather than keeping the money in the Club, which is why there are so many bonus weeks available.

That said, I greatly appreciate the positive comments made on this thread.  I stayed at Los Arcos and Flamingo and loved both.  (wish Flamingo had grills and a Sushi bar).  

Bob, thanks for your insight concerning my question regarding purchasing 2 one bedroom units vs 1 two bedroom unit.  Of course I was aware of the additional MF and this is what makes me hesitate.  On the other hand, if we go with another couple or our grown kids, everyone has more room in the 2 single room units.  Also, I think I would like going away for 2 weeks at a time.  In that case we would be able to stay in the full bedroom unit for both weeks rather than having to stay in just a studio for the 2nd week.  You have a 2 BR unit and are now thinking about buying another.  If you had 2 single BR units originally, would you still be looking for another 2 BR unit?  Your MR would have been about $1500 rather than $1850.

 Interestingly, Mark at Flamingo gave a talk to owners and suggested that if you split your 2 BR week so you can go for 2 weeks, stay in the 1 BR side the 1st week and then ask for an upgrade to a 1BR from the studio and that often works...no  guarantee of course.

I do have another question.  The seller I have been talking to says the units are Gold memberships and are weeks 1-50.  You were advising me to be sure I purchase a Winter membership.  What is the seller actually selling?

Thanks everyone for your comments
Jeff


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## beach.bar.bob (Dec 9, 2010)

easyrider said:


> RESERVATION STATUS
> GOLD - May request a reservation for weeks at any of the projects commencing 24 months prior to the commencement of the week being sought and receive priority during the first 13 months of such 24 month period. To be guaranteed this right, the request must be during the first 13 months of the 24 month period. This is not a guarantee of a reservation at a specific resort
> 
> ___________________________________________________
> ...



As the above states, Gold membership may reserve at *any of the projects* twenty-four weeks out.  There is no concept of a "home resort".  Equal rights across all resorts and all future resorts.  Same for VPA.  

Korndoc:

Yes a bit negative  understand that Jeff owns and represents many weeks/owners and often is making short term reservation requests....his concerns are in a different sphere than mine.  But he raises good points. 

Gold units are not by definition weeks 1-50.  They are sold specifically as Winter (weeks 1-17 and 44-50) or Summer (weeks 18-43) IIRC.  Many selling units resale will say they have a Gold membership that can be used 1-50...failing to point out that it is a Summer week and subject to the upgrade fees and timing constraints discussed above.  This is to the best of my recollection...I'm on the road this week.  I can double-check the contract this weekend for the exact wording if you like.

Yes, my interest is in 2 bdr units.  We travel often with others.  While you can "comfortably" sleep four in a 1 bdr unit.  That means 2 are sleeping on the Murphy bed in the living room.  That's better than squeezing four into a studio for sure.  But I much prefer having two bedrooms allowing the second couple the privacy of their own bdr rather than dealing with the living room situation.  Not my idea of vacation.  If I had small children, I'd be okay with it. Also both of my existing memberships are points memberships so if I breakup a week the points bank easily.  

Yes, I've meet Mark and sat thru his discussion. He does a nice job.  My only worries with the upgrade is the availability issues.  You read thru Jeff's site and availability at Arco is his biggest beef.  We primarily stay at Arco in Feb/March.  I prefer having what I need in hand rather than hoping I can get what I want ... works out most of the time isn't good enough for me when I'm vacationing.  But that's me.  YMMV...

bbb


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## PamMo (Dec 9, 2010)

beach.bar.bob said:


> ...Gold units are not by definition weeks 1-50.  They are sold specifically as Winter (weeks 1-17 and 44-50) or Summer (weeks 18-43) IIRC.  Many selling units resale will say they have a Gold membership that can be used 1-50...failing to point out that it is a Summer week and subject to the upgrade fees and timing constraints discussed above...



Just wanted to add that UVC also has Holiday Gold Weeks (weeks 51-52).


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## beach.bar.bob (Dec 9, 2010)

easyrider said:


> Another thing about access points is that I can see how a VPA member could reserve studio, one bed and two bed but most 3 bed with UVC seem to be fixed weeks. How would you get inventory that is unavailable even if you had enough points ? At the new resorts the inventory of rooms for member use is determind by how many members buy inventory of each size of room. Since VPA members are buying all room sizes with points it would seem that they should be able to reserve the 3 bed penthouse at the new resorts with points.
> 
> Does anyone know how many points it takes to get a 3 bed suite ? or if its posible ?



Easyrider: 

I doubt VPA/Gold memberships have any availability to fixed weeks unless the owner has turned them in...I have no idea how frequently that may happen. 

I agree that penthouse/3 bdr availability may be a challenge - at the prices they charge, I wonder how many penthouse units they actually sell.  Thus there may not be that many in the UVC inventory.  If a non-penthouse level VPA member has the available points and reserves a penthouse the purchaser of a penthouse level may get squeezed out...or if the penthouse level purchasers routinely make reservations early enough, the non-penthouse level VPA may never get the chance to reserve a penthouse "due to availability".  

I'm on the road so don't have access to my files. Over the weekend I'll look up the Penthouse 2 and 3 bedroom points requirements. IIRC the upgrades are possible if you have the points...except holiday weeks have the 60 day in advance limitation as mentioned above.  But I will post what I have when I can. 

bbb


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## nazclk (Dec 10, 2010)

*Weeks*

Winter weeks at UVC can be used weeks 1-50 at no charge, if you get a summer week they will charge you for upgrading to a winter week.  Also with a gold winter week you can get Christmas and New Years for a "price"


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## beach.bar.bob (Dec 13, 2010)

*More on VPA points and Gold upgrades...*



easyrider said:


> Does anyone know how many points it takes to get a 3 bed suite ? or if its posible ?



Okay...
I have both my Gold and VPA member contracts and materials in front of me. 

Here is the VPA points schedule for Arco/Flamingos/Cancun/Loretto: 

As of schedule provided to me in Jan 2010. 
Points are provided in format of Holiday/Winter/Summer

Studio 1550/1200/1000
1Bdr 2550/2200/1700
2Bdr 3150/2900/2200
2Bdr Penthouse 11800/7100/5700
3Bdr Penthouse 15400/8900/7050 

The points schedules for Villa Del Mar and Villa Del Palmer both PV and Cabo are lower and different across the board.  There are also daily point schedules for every property ... differing for Saturday/Sunday and weekday.  One VPA benefit is to split weeks into 2 day/5 day or 3 day/4 day stays ... thus the need for daily point schedule.  

Thus, the answer is yes, it is possible to upgrade to a 2 or 3 bedroom penthouse.  The VPA member just has to have enough points available to make the reservation...via actually owning the appropriate level of points or banking or borrowing points.  For example, the owner of a Winter 2Bdr unit "owns" 2900 points.  To rent a 3Bdr penthouse in the Winter will require 8900 points, therefore to reserve the penthouse, the 2Bdr Winter owner will need to bank and or borrow 6000 points in addition to that years 2900 points or 2 full years and 100 additional points...which are available to "purchase" for a fee ... which is not documented anywhere.  In this example, the 2Bdr Winter owner will utilize 3 weeks membership and need to find an additional 100 points to make the upgrade to a Winter 3 bedroom unit.  Both Gold and VPA members are allowed to bank a maximum of 5 years or borrow up to 5 years from the future.

In terms of VPA members "upgrading"...from the UVC/Resortcom website PDF document describing the VPA program: 

_" As a VPA owner you own a 'Points Contract' that is the equivalent to a week in a particular unit and season.  Unlike traditional timeshare memberships that only allow you to reserve a week in a specific unit type and season, VPA members are able to use their flexible points to travel in any unit size anytime of the year (footnote 1) as long as you have the required number of points to make the reservation.  

(footnote 1) " Some restrictions may apply during the Holiday season due to the limited space available during this timeframe." _

*Gold Membership additional info:*



			
				beach.bar.bob said:
			
		

> I will point out that the difference for making reservations for a Gold membership versus a Premier membership is 14 months, not 2 months across all resorts. Both Gold and VPA members can make reservations at any resort 24 months in advance - there is no such concept as a "home resort" for either Gold or VPA memberships. As I live in a cold weather state and know that I want to get away every winter I routinely make our reservations 20-24 months out. From the UVC site (link in earlier message):
> Ability to make reservations up to 24 months in advance at any Universal Vacation Club Resorts*



More specifically, here is the reservation policy for differing memberships from the UVC Bylaws (current Bylaws do not yet include VPA - go figure): 
_"Request for reservations shall be confirmed on a first-come, first-served basis _(bbb: This alone gives them a ton of wiggle room on availability)._  Gold Members may request  a reservation 24 months in advance, but receive priority during the first 13 months of such 24 month period.  All other Members may request reservations for Weeks at the Priority Use Resort designated in their Membership commencing 24 months prior to the week sought.  Members may request reservations at all other Projects 10 months prior to the week sought."_

There is no designated home resort in my Gold membership contract ... it is designated as a Universal membership applicable to all current and future resorts. 



			
				nazclk said:
			
		

> Winter weeks at UVC can be used weeks 1-50 at no charge, if you get a summer week they will charge you for upgrading to a winter week. Also with a gold winter week you can get Christmas and New Years for a "price"



While I agree that in practice Winter weeks can likely be used weeks 1-50 as their is likely less contention for reservations during the summer months, I will note that in Exhibit A, incorporated into the purchase contract by reference, of my Gold contract the Winter membership is explicitly stated as a "Weeks 1-17 and 44 through 50."

Yes, it is theoretically possible to upgrade season and units...subject to availability and only within 60 days of travel.  See below.

*Gold Upgrade schedule: *
It is possible to upgrade Gold memberships to higher seasons and larger units by paying a "small additional fee". From the upgrade chart for Arco (schedules are lower for other properties ... Cancun/Loretto not included in this schedule so unknown to me).  This is schedule provided to me in March 2009.  There is no Penthouse upgrade schedule included in my materials:

Footnote to upgrade chart - _"Any unit or season upgrades are subject to 60 days or less in advance only"_

Provided in format of $$ cost of upgrade to size/season as Holiday/Winter/Summer. "--" means upgrade not applicable. 

Summer Studio - Studio 602/301/ --
Summer Studio - 1Bdr 1848/903/560
Summer Studio - 2Bdr 3745/2191/1547
Summer 1Bdr - 1Bdr 1288/343/ --
Summer 1Bdr - 2Bdr 3185/1631/987
Summer 2Bdr - 2Bdr 2198/644/ ...

Winter Studio - Studio 301/ --/ --
Winter Studio - 1Bdr 1547/602/ --
Winter Studio - 2Bdr 3444/1890/ --
Winter 1Bdr - 1Bdr 945/ --/ --
Winter 1Bdr - 2Bdr 2842/1288/--
Winter 2Bdr - 2Bdr 1554/ -- / --

I hope this is interesting and valuable to others.  Happy to answer other questions.  Also hope posting it here will help others in the future. 

Safe travels. 

bbb


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## easyrider (Dec 13, 2010)

bbb that is interesting indeed. 

As a point member, a member would be able to get a 3 bed penthouse for under $3000.00 in the new locations ?

As a point member, the member can vacation bank up to 5 years ?

It seems the only advantage Gold and point members have is the ability to reserve before premiere members. As a premiere member I haven't had a problem reserving into any UVC resort yet.

The almost $300.00 in mf savings per week with a premiere membership and the shorter RTU are advantages over other memberships, imo.


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## beach.bar.bob (Dec 14, 2010)

easyrider said:


> bbb that is interesting indeed.
> 
> As a point member, a member would be able to get a 3 bed penthouse for under $3000.00 in the new locations ?
> 
> ...



Yes...assuming earlier example 2900 point membership MAFees approx $950 per year...thus a 3 Bdr Penthouse in the winter for about $3000.

Gold and VPA can bank 5 years into the future and can borrow 5 years from the future...Borrowing is an often under looked benefit to accelerate usage long into the future RTU's regardless of membership type.  Buy cheap on eBay, then suck as much use as you can out of the future years of the membership and then surrender the now near worthless membership (who would pay even a $1 for a membership with 5 years of future usage gone?) back to the developer and don't worry about how long the RTU runs.  Laugh all the way to the bank. 

Here's an idea - assuming you really wanted to stay in a 3 Bdr Penthouse...buy 2200 points for $800 on eBay (actual recent sale).  Borrow 3 future years - pay current plus three borrowed years' MAfees of a bit less than $900 for total of about $3500 - total investment $4300.  Reserve 3 bdr Penthouse....I couldn't find the full retail price on Villa Group site...but week of March 12, 2010 is available right now on Redweek for $7000.  Save minimum of $2700 for the week...even more I'm sure against retail.  Do nothing for next three years at no expense as MAFees have already been paid.  Repeat 4 years later - save thousands. Do this until you get bored of it then surrender membership.  Or, buy four memberships on ebay and do it every year... What do you think the developer sells a 3 bdr penthouse for??  

I'm not trying to debate the value of one membership category over another - I don't have a dog in that fight - I own what I own - I don't intend to be advocating one over the other.  I'm just sharing what I know about Gold and VPA...I don't/haven't owned a Premier so I don't/can't speak for that.  More power to you if that meets your needs.  

I think there are two characteristics more important than membership type that potential UVC resale buyers need to consider *assuming* they are most interested in staying in the newer resorts at peak periods:
1) Be sure you are able to plan far in advance - apparently at least 9-10 months (premier which has worked for easyrider) or 12 or more (even 20-24) which has worked for me. 
2) Unless you buy VPA points (then season isn't an issue) be sure to buy winter weeks...the upgrades from summer weeks are tough to get at the newer resorts during peak season. 

Safe travels.

bbb

12/14/2010 
Added for future reference: 
Gold Membership 2Brm Winter Floating Week sold today on eBay for $2,400 plus $625 closing costs and current year MA Fees of $883.00


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## easyrider (Dec 14, 2010)

I was watching a fixed week 1 & 2, VDP Cabo, 3 bedroom on Ebay a while back with a MF of around $3500.00. No one was bidding on it. So Im thinking the MF might be $1750.00 per week for this unit. Its a gold membership. If it was a winter float I would have pull the trigger. While its not the penthouse, this room would have a direct view of El Arco on its huge deck.

Im a tight wad so the premiere memberships are for me. The 10 months reservation window always works because people procrastinate. The discounts given to gold members at the resort is about 10% so an all inclusive saves about $10.00 a day. Its getting hard to find premiere memberships with 15 years left on the RTU. When people 50 and over plan 30 years out I have to think they are the true optomists.

http://cgi.ebay.com/3-BR-Villa-Del-...60694065224?pt=Timeshares&hash=item3cb293c048

bbb, you have explained points at UVC better than the last owner update person did on my last trip. Thanks.


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## beach.bar.bob (Dec 14, 2010)

easyrider said:


> I was watching a fixed week 1 & 2, VDP Cabo, 3 bedroom on Ebay a while back with a MF of around $3500.00. No one was bidding on it. So Im thinking the MF might be $1750.00 per week for this unit. Its a gold membership. If it was a winter float I would have pull the trigger. While its not the penthouse, this room would have a direct view of El Arco on its huge deck.
> 
> Im a tight wad so the premiere memberships are for me. The 10 months reservation window always works because people procrastinate. The discounts given to gold members at the resort is about 10% so an all inclusive saves about $10.00 a day. Its getting hard to find premiere memberships with 15 years left on the RTU. When people 50 and over plan 30 years out I have to think they are the true optomists.
> 
> ...



You're welcome.  Glad to help.  

I've seen the same listing...and was wondering about it.  The Gold membership and the Fixed Week don't seem to go together.  Your note made me curious.  I just spent 10-15 minutes perusing the UVC Bylaws.  I find no mention of Gold Fixed Weeks in the Bylaws.  Gold memberships are always described as floating...fixed weeks tend to be described as a Premier feature - while Premier also offers floating weeks.  

But, after reading the Bylaws and assuming there was such a possibility, I think you might reconsider that if the ad pops back up.  
The rules state that Fixed Week reservations are automatically made for the member each year. Gold members can make reservations 24 months in advance. They also state that a Gold member can cancel their reservations with at least 60 days notice with no fee.  Gold members can also Bank and Borrow weeks.  Thus, it would seem you could verify your fixed week reservation 24 months out...cancel it...bank it (maybe only for 60 seconds) and then book any desired week as a Gold member at any resort (maybe only at home resort?) 24 months out.  Maybe not such a bad purchase at $500 for two penthouse weeks with the MA Fees.  But, clearly you want some clarification from UVC that my take is valid...

I'm one of those optimistic 50 year olds   But I also placed my grown daughters names on my memberships so they have the option to keep and use once I'm too old and too tired...or to surrender them if they don't want them. 

Safe travels.

bbb


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## timesharejunkie4 (Dec 16, 2010)

I have a fixed week in a 2BR penthouse and a gold membership. If I do not go on my fixed week there is no guarantee I will get the same type of unit. I did go last year in May instead of November and was able to get my unit. Usually I go for two weeks every other November and reserve Villa del Arco for the second week. I do not pay a higher maintenance fee than the regular 2 BR units.


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## easyrider (Dec 17, 2010)

timesharejunkie4 said:


> I have a fixed week in a 2BR penthouse and a gold membership. If I do not go on my fixed week there is no guarantee I will get the same type of unit. I did go last year in May instead of November and was able to get my unit. Usually I go for two weeks every other November and reserve Villa del Arco for the second week. I do not pay a higher maintenance fee than the regular 2 BR units.



What is your reservation window ? Is it 60 day if you dont use your fixed week ?
Thanks


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## timesharejunkie4 (Dec 18, 2010)

easyrider said:


> What is your reservation window ? Is it 60 day if you dont use your fixed week ?
> Thanks



I can make reservations 24 months in advance, the same as any gold membership.


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## KarenLK (Dec 18, 2010)

Has anyone heard anything about Villa del Mar weeks that expire in 2011??


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## DebBrown (Dec 18, 2010)

KarenLK said:


> Has anyone heard anything about Villa del Mar weeks that expire in 2011??



We own two fixed weeks that expire in 2015.  What are you expecting to hear?  I'm assuming I'm done at that point.

When we were in Cabo last January, the sales staff assured me that my weeks would NOT expire in 2015.    I have no idea what they were thinking.

Deb


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## KarenLK (Dec 18, 2010)

Deb, I have heard nothing...but...someone had a week on ebay for sale that expired in 2011 and there was a tag saying it was renewable. 

So, I don't really know. Some down there indicate they will tear the complex down and build a highrise, soon, and that the 2015 expiries will he housed elsewhere. I REALLY doubt that one!


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## easyrider (Dec 18, 2010)

timesharejunkie4 said:


> I can make reservations 24 months in advance, the same as any gold membership.



If you can reserve 24 months out with a fixed week gold membership what prevents you from not getting a requested week ? 

Thanks

I heard the back and north structures at the Villa del Mar were going away to make room for a skyrise but the area from the lobby to the beach is staying. Does Villa del Mar have any inventory from the lobby to the beach or is all of that Villa del Palmar ?


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## timesharejunkie4 (Dec 19, 2010)

easyrider said:


> If you can reserve 24 months out with a fixed week gold membership what prevents you from not getting a requested week ?
> 
> Thanks
> QUOTE]
> ...


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## hethcock@mho.com (Nov 27, 2013)

*Is Villa Gold Club and resortCom International same as UVC?*

I am looking at purchasing 2 floating winter weeks in 2 bedroom unit.  The owner transfer form says ResortCom International at resort Villa del Arco  with a Gold Membership. 

From reading below it looks like I would be buying a membership in Villa Group and not guaranteed villa del Arco. 

The price is $4,500 plus $100 transfer fee and another $450 in closing costs and broker fee for helping?  I found this on Buyatimeshare.com. 

Any advise before I send deposit?


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## beach.bar.bob (Nov 27, 2013)

hethcock@mho.com said:


> I am looking at purchasing 2 floating winter weeks in 2 bedroom unit.  The owner transfer form says ResortCom International at resort Villa del Arco  with a Gold Membership.
> 
> From reading below it looks like I would be buying a membership in Villa Group and not guaranteed villa del Arco.
> 
> ...



Review the UVC owners presentation to help gain an understanding of how the management structure and the various memberships work:
http://www.myuvc.com/files/Members_101_Class - New August2013 Corrected.pdf

If you really want the details try the UVC bylaws found here 
http://www.myuvc.com/files/Amended ...es and Bylaws _19_ - with TOC - Final _2_.pdf

Villa Group = The developer. The company that built and own the resorts and sell the timeshare memberships. A Mexican Company. 

Universal Vacation Club (UVC) = The homeowners association based in San Diego that runs/manages the timeshare operations. Once a timeshare membership is sold then UVC owns and manages the relationship. They collect the loan payments, maintenance fees etc and control the reservation process, etc. 

Resortcom = Third party company hired by UVC to run the systems, call centers, etc that support the reservation process and payments processes. Resortcom provides these services to other timeshare homeowners associations as well. 

"Gold" membership do not have a home resort. Gold memberships have equal rights in all of the resorts. For inventory management purposes the membership may indicate a certain resort but you clearly do not own at that resort. Even if your Gold membership indicates Villa del Arco you do not have any greater privileges at Villa del Arco than does a Gold membership that indicates Villa del Palmar Puerto Vallarta. The vast majority of Gold memberships are floating inventory. The big exception to everything I just wrote is if the Gold membership is a "Gold Fixed Week" membership. In that case the membership would indicate a specific resort, specific week and a specific unit. Very few Gold Fixed Week memberships were sold at Villa del Arco (mostly penthouses). 

If your main interest is Villa del Arco and you plan to travel at popular times the key to happiness with your membership is to plan far in advance. I own three UVC memberships and Villa del Arco is our preferred resort (though we also visit Flamingos and Cancun). None of our membership are inventoried at Villa del Arco.  We typically make our reservations about 12 months in advance and have NEVER been unable to make a reservation when we preferred. 

Gold members can make reservations at any UVC resort up to 24 months in advance. Premier members (an older class of membership) do have a home resort and can only make reservations 10 months in advance outside their home resort. Villa del Arco is the smallest UVC property (it was fit into a pretty small piece of real estate) and probably the most popular. After the 10 month window opens up for Premier members to make reservations then it becomes difficult to make reservations at Villa del Arco. 

Two years ago or so winter two bedroom gold units were routinely selling on eBay for between $800 to $1,500 per week. I helped family and friends buy five in this price range...except one went for $1.00.  So compared to those prices $4,500 for two weeks since a touch high...But, I haven't seen a winter two bedroom Gold unit for sale on eBay since last March. The resales have really dried up. So in that context I don't think the price is that bad. Be sure it's really a Gold membership though...the newer VPA (i.e., points) memberships revert back to Premier memberships when acquired via resale. 

Happy to answer further questions. 

FWIW

bbb


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## easyrider (Nov 27, 2013)

http://www.myuvc.com/

Go to the faq.

Gold Membership allows you certain privileges. Yes your membership is with UVC and is a right to use for winter weeks. This is good, imo. Resortcom.com is the place you make your online reservations, pay mf's and bank weeks. I always just call.

My last 2 bed unit was purchased for $1 on ebay and included a banked week. It is a premiere membership. You dont see UVC as much as you used to on ebay anymore. 

At $2250 per week this week seems inline with other resale purchases, maybe even a little less. I like it. I have paid half as much for a 1 bed unit.

Things to consider are the lenght of the RTU. If there is 30 years on the RTU will you be able to or want to go to one of the five resorts. The mf. It adds up with multiple units. One good thing is you won't get stuck with keeping the unit as the resort will take it back.

Bill


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## easyrider (Nov 27, 2013)

Hi Bob !!!  How you doing ?

Bill


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## hethcock@mho.com (Nov 27, 2013)

*Very helpful*

Thanks BBB and Bill.  I now know what I am getting into.  Was definitely misled about the Villa del Arco part.  I am going to negotiate from a point of knowledge with this buyer now.

Christine


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## beach.bar.bob (Nov 27, 2013)

easyrider said:


> Hi Bob !!!  How you doing ?
> 
> Bill



Doing pretty well...You? 

Just returned from two weeks in the US Virgin Islands...used II getaways to stay at Marriott Frenchman's Cove on St Thomas and Grande Bay Resort on St John. Great time. Beautiful place. 

Looking forward to getting back to VDA for two weeks in Feb then we're finally going to stay at VDP Cancun in late March. I know you guys have been there...Really want to check out that property. 

bbb


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## easyrider (Nov 27, 2013)

Doing good !! Its getting cold so were thinking of Mexico.

We might cross paths in Cabo. Were heading to Loreto then driving up to Cabo in Feb. Were at Sunset Beach most of the Cabo trip. Might make it to somewhere warm in between now and then.

Bill


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## beach.bar.bob (Nov 28, 2013)

easyrider said:


> Doing good !! Its getting cold so were thinking of Mexico.
> 
> We might cross paths in Cabo. Were heading to Loreto then driving up to Cabo in Feb.
> Bill



We'll be at VDA last two weeks in Feb. 

Thinking about Loreto for next November. My brother and I are taking our extended families to VDA for Thanksgiving week and Pam and I are thinking of visiting Loreto the week before. 

Question:  How the heck do you get there? Fly in to Loreto? Then drive to Cabo?  Finding it hard to find flights that will get us into Loreto. Maybe we fly in and out of Cabo and drive both ways to Loreto? I know Alaska Air has flights but they seem to be seasonal.  Appreciate any insight. 

bbb


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## hethcock@mho.com (Nov 28, 2013)

They have real cheap flights from Cabo to Loretto on local airline.


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## beach.bar.bob (Nov 28, 2013)

hethcock@mho.com said:


> They have real cheap flights from Cabo to Loretto on local airline.



Who's "they"? An Expedia search returns no values...

bbb


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## itchyfeet (Nov 28, 2013)

Alaska Airlines has two flights a week from Los Angeles to Loreto.  The Trip Advisor Loreto forum has suggestions on how to get from Loreto to Cabo--rental car or bus.  Apparently there is also a Mexican airline that flies from Loreto to Cabo. The Loreto Forum on TA has a lot of info. about the area. There are also many reviews of the resort in the hotel section of TA.


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## easyrider (Nov 30, 2013)

beach.bar.bob said:


> We'll be at VDA last two weeks in Feb.
> 
> Thinking about Loreto for next November. My brother and I are taking our extended families to VDA for Thanksgiving week and Pam and I are thinking of visiting Loreto the week before.
> 
> ...



My plan was to fly to Loreto with Alsaka then use Aerocalifica to get to Cabo. This would work except Aerocalifica does not fly daily to Cabo. The Friday flights are gone for now but if they show up this Feb Im on it. The only flight is midweek from Loreto to Cabo so if you plan around the Aerocalifica schedule it will be easy peasy. This is what I plan on doing from now on. Then you have the Alaska schedule as they dont fly daily to Loreto either. I would be good with staying in Loreto for 3 weeks but we made promises to meet friends in Cabo so its now a split trip, which suite me fine.

I always rent a car in Mexico but this will be my longest drive. On other trips we would drive to La Paz for day trips from Cabo and have found some really cool places we like along the way. This drive should be the same. The baja nomads have gave up some good places to stop along the way so it will be fun, imo. Its about 6 hour drive without stopping from what Im told. I think to drop off the car in Cabo adds about $160 to the car rental price. 

There is also a couple of buses a person could take. These are nice busses and one is more like a shuttle with wifi. Im still thinking of going this route but may need to leave earlier to get to SJD to pick some people up at 4.

http://www.aereocalafia.com.mx/inicio/
You might need to call them a few times to speak to someone that speaks english or do what I did and have a spanish speaking person help you on this side. 

Bill


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## easyrider (Nov 30, 2013)

Well I check in to see if I have other travel options for LTO to SJD. Nope. 

Here are the options available today.

Bus to SJD on an executive bus for about $130.00. It looks like it takes between 8 - 9 hours to do this option. http://www.autotransportesaguila.com/

Shuttle bus with wifi for about $170. This option is faster than the bus taking about 7 hours but requires switching shuttles in La Paz. 
http://www.ecobajatours.com/InfoHorarios.aspx

Rental car through Fox in Loreto. Cost for the week including the drop off fee and liability insurance is about $530. The drop of fee is $160.

Im booked with Fox as they are the only car rental agency in Loreto that allows drops in San Jose del Cabo.
http://www.foxrentacar.com/


Bill


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