# points for home week?



## garyferg (Jun 26, 2012)

hi all

I am new to timeshares - my wife and I own a 1 br in florida at a vacation club......when we reserved our DEEDED HOME WEEK......they charged us all of our annual club points for the reservation......is this normal practice? I dont understand how they can charge us for a week in a unit we own....they say "it's the rules" do all resorts/clubs follow this practice?


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## theo (Jun 26, 2012)

*You can't "double dip"...*



garyferg said:


> I am new to timeshares - my wife and I own a 1 br in florida at a vacation club......when we reserved our DEEDED HOME WEEK......they charged us all of our annual club points for the reservation......is this normal practice? I dont understand how they can charge us for a week in a unit we own....they say "it's the rules" do all resorts/clubs follow this practice?



Your week (...assuming that it *is* a deeded week with associated points, as you've described above) has a known, pre-established points value. If you decide to reserve and use that underlying deeded week at your home resort, instead of using the associated Points elsewhere, then yes, you must indeed utilize *all* of those pre-established points to use that deeded week in any given year. That's just standard operating procedure, anywhere and everywhere. You can't "double dip" (i.e., you don't get to use the underlying deeded week *and* use the Points elsewhere). It's an annual usage, whether utilized as the deeded week itself or utilized elsewhere as the associated points. You can use one or the other (but certainly not both) in any given year.


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## garyferg (Jun 26, 2012)

theo said:


> Your week (...assuming that it *is* a deeded week with associated points, as you've described above) has a known, pre-established points value. If you decide to reserve and use that underlying deeded week at your home resort, instead of using the associated Points elsewhere, then yes, you must indeed utilize *all* of those pre-established points to use that deeded week in any given year. That's just standard operating procedure, anywhere and everywhere. You can't "double dip" (i.e., you don't get to use the underlying deeded week *and* use the Points elsewhere). It's an annual usage, whether utilized as the deeded week itself or utilized elsewhere as the associated points. You can use one or the other (but certainly not both) in any given year.



Thank you for your answer but I do not agree with your premise....first of all, "points" have no value, it does the resort/developer no good to retain them....their only value is what is granted for their use by RCI , saying this is double-dipping is like saying if you buy a house you must pay rent to live in it because it has rental value.....just because everyone does it, doesnt make it right.....


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## tschwa2 (Jun 26, 2012)

Your points are backed by your week.  If you don't deposit your week into the exchange inventory you don't get any points.  This is the way RCI points works.  Sellers don't always make this clear.


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## ampaholic (Jun 26, 2012)

garyferg said:


> Thank you for your answer but I do not agree with your premise....first of all, "points" have no value, it does the resort/developer no good to retain them....their only value is what is granted for their use by RCI , saying this is double-dipping is like saying if you buy a house you must pay rent to live in it because it has rental value.....just because everyone does it, doesnt make it right.....



OK, using your analogy:

If you bought a house and put a renter in it (a similar idea as giving your week to the points club in exchange for points) the renter would expect to have exclusive occupancy before giving you money (points) - without *you* living in it.

If you decided to occupy the house (use the week yourself) you would not *also* expect to get rental income from it.

You can have your cake *or* eat it - just not both.


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## geekette (Jun 26, 2012)

the points represent the week.  if you use the week, you have no points left.

If you don't use the week, you have points to use.

regarding maint fees paid at reservation time - that's not how it works in the system I'm in, but not unreasonable.  This way they make sure that you are current on your fees, as is everyone else wanting to vacation.  I feel like this is good practice, though not how I would implement it.


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## theo (Jun 26, 2012)

*Denial of the facts does NOT change them...*



garyferg said:


> Thank you for your answer but I do not agree with your premise....<snip>



No "premise" is involved. With due respect, it doesn't matter whether or not you "agree" with the facts.
Others above have also provided an objective and factually accurate description of *exactly **the way it is*. 

You can reserve and use your deeded week and spend *all* of the points pre-assigned to that week to do so 
--- *or* you can use your points elsewhere instead. *No* option exists to do *both* within the same use-year. You might _*wish*_ it was otherwise, but you can't "double dip"; it's neither allowed nor possible. Period, amen.


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## csxjohn (Jun 26, 2012)

To explain it another way. 

You pay your fees for the week you own.

You are now awarded a certain number of points in your system to use as you see fit.

For someone to use the unit you own, they will be required to give up the same number of points you were given.

If it is you that wants to use that week, you must give up that number of points leaving you with zero points left for the year.


If you could use your week and the points, and everyone would do  that if they could,  there would be no weeks left for anyone to use their points on.


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## garyferg (Jun 30, 2012)

csxjohn said:


> To explain it another way.
> 
> You pay your fees for the week you own.
> 
> ...



OK I get everyone's point. thank you. But I still think there is a way to make timeshare ownership a "win-win" for everyone......but not the way things are currently structured. First of all. lets back up to the beginning.....Points are given to timeshare purchasers as an incentive for their purchase. In exchange, the developer gets cash from the sale to offset their costs.....the purchaser gets a deed giving them legal ownership of their unit for a specified week....you say it's "double-dipping" to use points and occupy your unit during your deeded week........but do you really think your unit will be vacant if you don't use it? My guess is it will be rented out to the highest bidder without any compensation to the owner.....so I guess double-dipping is not fair for an owner to do but perfectly legitimate for the resort to do...Why cant a resort adopt the policy that points are not consumed for a deeded week....but cannot be used at he deeded resort if the owner occupies their unit during their deeded week. What difference does it make to the resort if these points were used by an owner at a different resort? This would have a huge impact on the value of timeshare ownership.....


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## tschwa2 (Jun 30, 2012)

But where would the points come from if you don't deposit your week?  You may have recieved some "bonus" points when enrolling but if so that was from the developer depositing unsold units or paying to buy points with the proceeds from your purchase.  If you want points on the years you use your unit you can purchase up to half your yearly allotment through RCI for $.02 per point or you can rent from another owner for around half that amount.  The points are connected to a deeded or rtu's deposit, so if you are not depositing you need to pay for the use of points from something that has been deposited.


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## ampaholic (Jun 30, 2012)

garyferg said:


> OK I get everyone's point. thank you. But I still think there is a way to make timeshare ownership a "win-win" for everyone......but not the way things are currently structured. First of all. lets back up to the beginning.....Points are given to timeshare purchasers as an incentive for their purchase. In exchange, the developer gets cash from the sale to offset their costs.....the purchaser gets a deed giving them legal ownership of their unit for a specified week....you say it's "double-dipping" to use points and occupy your unit during your deeded week........but do you really think your unit will be vacant if you don't use it? My guess is it will be rented out to the highest bidder without any compensation to the owner.....so I guess double-dipping is not fair for an owner to do but perfectly legitimate for the resort to do...Why cant a resort adopt the policy that points are not consumed for a deeded week....but cannot be used at he deeded resort if the owner occupies their unit during their deeded week. What difference does it make to the resort if these points were used by an owner at a different resort? This would have a huge impact on the value of timeshare ownership.....



So in essence you are asking why the points issued can't be a "perk" given to the owner every year - perhaps as a reward for buying their interval? Then the owner of such a "perked" interval could both use it each year *and* use the points each year - as long as they use them at a different resort?

Did I get your question right?

Well, the short answer is yes a system or group of resorts _*could*_ do just that - but none do.

Just like your grocery store could - as a perk - give you points good for groceries when you are on vacation at a store near where you are vacationing.

They could - they just won't.


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## e.bram (Jun 30, 2012)

Basically you have to understand how the point system works. When you get your points you are leasing your unit to the point issuing entity RCI, trust etc. They now own your unit for the time of the lease, it is not yours for that time anymore. The points entity now subleases the units for points to you and others who have surrendered(leased) their units or rents them.


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## DeniseM (Jun 30, 2012)

Giving everyone the point value of their week, AND the use of the week itself is simply not possible.  

In simplest terms, that would mean that the resort was giving every owner two weeks for the price of one.  Where would they get all the additional rooms to give the owners a 2nd week?

Example - let's say that a resort system has 10,000 units in their system, and they give each owner 2 weeks, and each owner uses their home resort, and also uses the points to reserve a 2nd week.  Where would the resort get an additional 10,000 units for the 2nd week reservations?

You can't eat your cake and have it too.


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## garyferg (Jul 3, 2012)

DeniseM said:


> Giving everyone the point value of their week, AND the use of the week itself is simply not possible.
> 
> In simplest terms, that would mean that the resort was giving every owner two weeks for the price of one.  Where would they get all the additional rooms to give the owners a 2nd week?
> 
> ...



your point is well made......but after thinking....i think where this all went astray is the history.....originally, RCI existed to allow members to exchange banked weeks without having to negotiate an individual deal with another owner.....in that arrangement, everything said in reply to my comments makes sense.......but in my case, as member of a vacation club, i cannot bank my week with RCI...it is not allowed....instead I am given the ability to exchange my club points for RCI points at a ratio.....the entire gist of my comments concern what i see as the confusion between deeded ownership and points.......basically, your deed title has nothing to do with points..........it means during my deeded week I am the ONE AND ONLY legal owner of the property.....to charge me to use my property whether in points or any other currency is a violation of the principle of deeded ownership.........this would have been much  better if i had not been blind-sided by the cost of making a home week reservation......none of this was explained when we purchased our timeshare....to put this another way, if points are king, then I am buying the points with my mortgage......just because I also want to use my deeded week shouldnt mean I lose the points, after all, I paid for them. T o use points, which I have to buy, to use a unit, which I also have to buy, is a scam......In today's points-based environment, the rules have not kept pace with the changes......i.e. there HAS to be a better way than this......


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## ampaholic (Jul 3, 2012)

garyferg said:


> your point is well made......but after thinking....i think where this all went astray is the history.....originally, RCI existed to allow members to exchange banked weeks without having to negotiate an individual deal with another owner.....in that arrangement, everything said in reply to my comments makes sense.......but in my case, as member of a vacation club, i cannot bank my week with RCI...it is not allowed....instead I am given the ability to exchange my club points for RCI points at a ratio.....the entire gist of my comments concern what i see as the confusion between deeded ownership and points.......basically, your deed title has nothing to do with points..........it means during my deeded week I am the ONE AND ONLY legal owner of the property.....to charge me to use my property whether in points or any other currency is a violation of the principle of deeded ownership.........this would have been much  better if i had not been blind-sided by the cost of making a home week reservation......none of this was explained when we purchased our timeshare....to put this another way, if points are king, then I am buying the points with my mortgage......just because I also want to use my deeded week shouldnt mean I lose the points, after all, I paid for them. T o use points, which I have to buy, to use a unit, which I also have to buy, is a scam......In today's points-based environment, the rules have not kept pace with the changes......i.e. there HAS to be a better way than this......



Like talking to a Rabbit about chastity, or a Wolf about fasting....

Nevermind .... :hysterical: :rofl: :hysterical:


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## garyferg (Jul 3, 2012)

ampaholic said:


> Like talking to a Rabbit about chastity, or a Wolf about fasting....
> 
> Nevermind .... :hysterical: :rofl: :hysterical:



sorry this isnt about chastity......ok so let me explain where this all started....maybe then someone will understand my position....last year....I contacted our vacation club to rent out our deeded week using their plan which shares rents with owner.... I was told I couldnt, because I had not made a reservation for the week......so this year I reserved it,never intending to use it for myself, but to rent it out. Then I find they deducted all my points for the reservation.......which I was never going to use in the first place, but according to their rules, i had no choice but to do. So the issue is...who owns my deeded unit during my deeded week? If I am charged all points just to rent it out, then certainly I do not, because the resort is controlling my use of the property.......so that;s where this all started.......


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## bshmerlie (Jul 3, 2012)

If you used your points to secure that week then the week is yours to use.  You can rent it out or you can use it yourself.  If you gave up the week to the resort to rent it out for you, then you loose the points and they give you a portion of the money they made when they rent it out.  

The only way you can get more weeks with your points than just one week is to really get to know the RCI system and how to use it to your full advantage.  You can get multiple weeks at other resorts with those same points that you'd only get one week from if you used it on your actual resort.

Do a little research on RCI and read how other people are using it to their advantage.  You're not stuck with just the one week once you really know how to maximize RCI.


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## ampaholic (Jul 3, 2012)

garyferg said:


> sorry this isnt about chastity......ok so let me explain where this all started....maybe then someone will understand my position....last year....I contacted our vacation club to rent out our deeded week using their plan which shares rents with owner.... I was told I couldnt, because I had not made a reservation for the week......so this year I reserved it,never intending to use it for myself, but to rent it out. Then I find they deducted all my points for the reservation.......which I was never going to use in the first place, but according to their rules, i had no choice but to do. *So the issue is...who owns my deeded unit during my deeded week? If I am charged all points just to rent it out, then certainly I do not, because the resort is controlling my use of the property*.......so that;s where this all started.......



OK, I.m going to go over this one last time because you are new and you did pay your $15 - but please in the future keep your questions simple and your grammar simple as well. your overuse of ...... makes your post hard to read (for me at least). 

*Did you or did you not enroll your week into the "points" system?*

*If no* - then you were enrolled without your permission - I would fight that and gain back every year use of the week.

_*If yes*_ - then you agreed to these rules - please smile and move on.


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## geekette (Jul 3, 2012)

This maybe would be a lot easier if you just tell us what/where you own?  Points systems come in many flavors.  

You own what you own, whether you use the week or the points (you don't get both!)   You say you were "charged" points to get the week, but it's all the same - your points ARE the week, they represent your owned week.  They are equivalent except in usage - the week is used at the resort where it is housed while the points let you stay somewhere else.

The resort made AN OPTION available to you and you exercised your right to utilize that option.  You made that decision, you had control.  YOU decided to take the week vs the points.  YOU can make the opposite decision next year, take the points instead of the week.  

I'm not getting what the problem is??   resort did not force your hand, did not steal anything from you.


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## garyferg (Jul 3, 2012)

geekette said:


> This maybe would be a lot easier if you just tell us what/where you own?  Points systems come in many flavors.
> 
> You own what you own, whether you use the week or the points (you don't get both!)   You say you were "charged" points to get the week, but it's all the same - your points ARE the week, they represent your owned week.  They are equivalent except in usage - the week is used at the resort where it is housed while the points let you stay somewhere else.
> 
> ...



OK thanks to all who answered, I still don't like the situation, but I guess that's the way the system works. Nothing will change until enough people force the change. Again, thanks to all, and now you can get back to your life, this will be my last post.

Thank you

Gary Ferguson
ll


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## iloveflorida (Jul 4, 2012)

*Force the Change???*



garyferg said:


> OK thanks to all who answered, I still don't like the situation, but I guess that's the way the system works. Nothing will change until enough people force the change. Again, thanks to all, and now you can get back to your life, this will be my last post.
> 
> Thank you
> 
> ...



If I have a dollar, I can spend it or I can put it in the bank, but I can't do both.  That's not going to change.


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## geekette (Jul 4, 2012)

garyferg said:


> OK thanks to all who answered, I still don't like the situation, but I guess that's the way the system works. Nothing will change until enough people force the change. Again, thanks to all, and now you can get back to your life, this will be my last post.
> 
> Thank you
> 
> ...



No reason to go away!!  

Stick around and clear the confusion about anything else you find out.  really, we're nice people, and want to help.

I'm not sure what change you think is possible, so if you have an idea for a better mousetrap, please let us in on it.  

Welcome to Tug!


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## ampaholic (Jul 4, 2012)

geekette said:


> No reason to go away!!
> 
> Stick around and clear the confusion about anything else you find out.  really, we're nice people, and want to help.
> 
> ...



+1 for me geekette. I hope he meant "last post this thread".


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