# WKV Value?



## caryatid62 (Dec 18, 2018)

We're thinking of buying a full-time place in the Kierland area, and are considering selling our week at WKV. I've looked into some sites, including TUG, and I cannot get a read on the market for these places. Some similar units are selling for borderline retail price and others are seemingly selling for $100 or less. 

Does anyone know the relative market for one-bedrooms at WKV? Are places selling well or is it pretty dry? I can't get a sense of whether or not its even worth it to list the place. 



(PS: I'm intentionally not posting anything about the unit because I do not want people to think I'm trying to backdoor sell it on here w/o paying the fee for classifieds)


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## FamilyEsq (Dec 18, 2018)

You can get a pretty good idea of the resale market by checking out redweek.com.

https://www.redweek.com/resort/P4939-the-westin-kierland-villas/timeshare-resales

The amount you can sell your unit for is going to depend on the season you own.  The prices vary dramatically depending on the season.  Good luck.


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## vacationtime1 (Dec 18, 2018)

The price will also vary on a one bedroom depending on whether the unit is the large side or the small side unit.


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## DavidnRobin (Dec 18, 2018)

As mentioned - the price is dependent on season and size.
Essentially, the value of WKV is based on the amount of associated StarOptions and corresponding Maintenance Fees.
If lowest season... almost valueless. 


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## dioxide45 (Dec 19, 2018)

Unless it is Platinum Plus, the resale value is very low.


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## echino (Dec 19, 2018)

PlatinumPlus 2 bedroom annual is about $10,000 - $12,000. 1 bedroom depends if it's small or large.

Anything below PlatinumPlus is worth about zero.


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## caryatid62 (Dec 19, 2018)

This is really helpful (and encouraging). Thank you!


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## blahblah18 (Dec 22, 2018)

echino said:


> PlatinumPlus 2 bedroom annual is about $10,000 - $12,000.



Only $10,000 for a 2BR Platinum?  That seems a pretty optimistic, no??  Even $12,000 seems like a pretty good price. 

Based on what I see on RedWeek and TUG Marketplace, the typical asking price for the 2BRs is in the mid to high teens.  (There have been a few seemingly “quick sale” listings for as low as $12k, but they’re few and far between.)  

A couple of brokers have told me that the actual sale prices typically come in between 12-15k.

Am I off?  (We own a couple of 1BR Platinum weeks there, and we’re looking to add a 2BR week.)


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## echino (Dec 22, 2018)

One was recently sold on eBay for $9,758 with free closing:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/WESTIN-KIE...NTS-SCOTTSDALE-ARIZONA-TIMESHARE/183467578664


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## vacationtime1 (Dec 23, 2018)

Obviously a few 148100 StarOption Kierland units sell for $12,000 -- and maybe even for $9,758 (that was an eBay deal and we really don't know whether it closed).  But I suspect very few sell at that price; I only see 148100 SO units on eBay every few months, and some of those have sold for ~$14,000.   And yes, there is a broker who lists them for $12,000 a couple of times a year; he prices them for quick sale (I am being kind).

I have tracked Kierland sales for a decade; I think these low prices are outliers.  Yes, they are "possible" prices.  But if one wants to buy at that price, it will be a slow and tedious process with no guarantee of eventual success.


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## dioxide45 (Dec 23, 2018)

vacationtime1 said:


> that was an eBay deal and we really don't know whether it closed


I believe the buyer was a Tugger and we know it closed (can't find the post). Without ROFR at WKV, I would expect many deals to close.


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## BLUE AYES (Dec 23, 2018)

I am one of the lucky ones who was able to pick up at Kierland, Platinum, two-bedroom lock off for $12,000.  I had “stalked” this property for quite a while and my research led me to believe that the average selling price was  approximately $15,000, with a general range of $14,000 - $16,000. It is possible that the prices have come down a bit, but I think $14,000 is much more in the ballpark than $12,000. Just my two cents.


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## pacman777 (Dec 23, 2018)

I think the value of these have definitely come down with the new norm being $12 to $13k. Of course you’re going to have outliers with prices above and below this average range. I think I saw one listed by the timeshare king for $12k the other day


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## jordathyspg (Dec 24, 2018)

We paid $16k for a 2 bedroom platinum in June this year.

We had been keeping an eye on prices and knew the price range but wanted to close no later than 8 months out for March spring break 2019, so we were in a bit of a rush. This was also our first TS purchase (after much research on tug) and the sale was thru a highly respected broker on this board, so for those two factors we did not mind paying what was likely a slight premium over what we could have paid if we had all the time in the world.

FWIW - we had made inquires/opening offers 3-4 times in the weeks leading up to our deal thru various sites, and all the units at $14k-$15k were sold within a week and we were told all had multiple offers at full ask. So I if was a seller, there is no way that I’d list less than $15k. That said, a patient buyer may get a nice deal, but you’d better be on it quick because I think there are plenty of people out there looking for those odd quick sale listings.


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## vacationtime1 (Dec 24, 2018)

jordathyspg said:


> We paid $16k for a 2 bedroom platinum in June this year.
> 
> *We had been keeping an eye on prices and knew the price range but wanted to close no later than 8 months out for March spring break 2019, so we were in a bit of a rush.* This was also our first TS purchase (after much research on tug) and the sale was thru a highly respected broker on this board, so for those two factors we did not mind paying what was likely a slight premium over what we could have paid if we had all the time in the world.
> 
> FWIW - we had made inquires/opening offers 3-4 times in the weeks leading up to our deal thru various sites, and all the units at $14k-$15k were sold within a week and we were told all had multiple offers at full ask. So I if was a seller, there is no way that I’d list less than $15k. That said, a patient buyer may get a nice deal, but you’d better be on it quick because I think there are plenty of people out there looking for those odd quick sale listings.



This is a good point on Kierland (and many other) units; *the closing date can have a significant impact on value*.

Having a March reservation for the two bedroom Kierland unit is "worth" over $2,200 -- because the rental value of those weeks is _at least_ $3,750 and the MF's are "only" $1,565.  So having the ability to make a March reservation before the eight month mark -- when StarOptions from any Vistana mandatory unit can make a reservation; all unreserved weeks are taken immediately at that point -- is very valuable (none of the weeks later in the year are worth nearly as much).

This is why it often behooves a seller to reserve a good week so the reservation can transfer with the unit when it is sold.  It is also why the buyer who closes on a 148100 SO Kierland in June for $16K pays no more than a buyer who closes on an identical unit a month later for $14K (in each case, assuming the unit was bought to use rather than for SO trading).


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## maddog497 (Dec 30, 2018)

I've been looking around at some WKV's and am curious about the difference between a floating gold plus 2 bedroom and a floating platinum 2 bedroom? Other than the amount of staroptions and price to purchase, are there any disadvantages for booking purposes?



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## VacationForever (Dec 30, 2018)

maddog497 said:


> I've been looking around at some WKV's and am curious about the difference between a floating gold plus 2 bedroom and a floating platinum 2 bedroom? Other than the amount of staroptions and price to purchase, are there any disadvantages for booking purposes?
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my CLT-L04 using Tapatalk


Same MF regardless of seasons for the same size unit.  You can only book your week(s) within the season where the week is deeded.


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## maddog497 (Dec 30, 2018)

VacationForever said:


> Same MF regardless of seasons for the same size unit.  You can only book your week(s) within the season where the week is deeded.


I'm seeing some with weeks identified as gold plus 22-37 etc., and then some gold plus 1-52, and turf subs just as float?  I am assuming that the listings are just not accurate?

TheTimeShare King has a listing for a platinum 2/2 with 148,100 SO and is identified as "floats" for $12,500.

He has another Gold 2/2 with 81,000 identitied as "floats" for $3000.

It looks like the listing are not identifing the "floats" with the actual weeks tied to them. He has another platinum plus that states floats but below that in red states weeks 1-21, 50-52. 

LOL, I'm answering my own questions but thought I would keep posting just in case others are curious. 

WKV Has three seasons, platinum (1-21, 50-52), gold plus (22-27, 36-49) and gold (28-35)

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## VacationForever (Dec 30, 2018)

maddog497 said:


> I'm seeing some with weeks identified as gold plus 22-37 etc., and then some gold plus 1-52, and turf subs just as float?  I am assuming that the listings are just not accurate?
> 
> TheTimeShare King has a listing for a platinum 2/2 with 148,100 SO and is identified as "floats" for $12,500.
> 
> ...


There is no Gold Plus 1-52 at WKV.  All weeks float within the season that are deeded in.


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## maddog497 (Dec 30, 2018)

VacationForever said:


> There is no Gold Plus 1-52 at WKV.  All weeks float within the season that are deeded in.


Found that out. The listing are poorly worded. 

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## VacationForever (Dec 30, 2018)

maddog497 said:


> Found that out. The listing are poorly worded.
> 
> Sent from my CLT-L04 using Tapatalk


Unless you want to stay at WKV during Gold Plus season, then SVV Platinum weeks have better MF:Star Option value when compared with WKV Gold Plus season.  You can pick up a SVV Platinum week for close to 1K.


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## maddog497 (Dec 30, 2018)

We have 2 SVV, one platinum and one gold. I've had some questions about WKV so tight this was the thread to jump in on. 

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## Ianneyan (Jan 7, 2019)

vacationtime1 said:


> Obviously a few 148100 StarOption Kierland units sell for $12,000 -- and maybe even for $9,758 (that was an eBay deal and we really don't know whether it closed).  But I suspect very few sell at that price; I only see 148100 SO units on eBay every few months, and some of those have sold for ~$14,000.   And yes, there is a broker who lists them for $12,000 a couple of times a year; he prices them for quick sale (I am being kind).
> 
> I have tracked Kierland sales for a decade; I think these low prices are outliers.  Yes, they are "possible" prices.  But if one wants to buy at that price, it will be a slow and tedious process with no guarantee of eventual success.



Just FYI, I was the winner of that auction and we closed in November. I do think, however, that that was a very unusual and phenomenal deal, definitely an outlier. Just good timing on my part... kinda right place, right time!


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## thewinglessone (Jan 9, 2019)

Hi I’m being offered a 1bed plat plus week at WKV for $7.5k all in. From my research that seems like a reasonable price but thought I might come check with the experts is this an ok price or would I be overpaying?


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## DavidnRobin (Jan 9, 2019)

thewinglessone said:


> Hi I’m being offered a 1bed plat plus week at WKV for $7.5k all in. From my research that seems like a reasonable price but thought I might come check with the experts is this an ok price or would I be overpaying?



I think so. With 2019 usage?
I paid $10K in 2008.
Mine have paid for themselves by renting for last 10 years.  Now using the SOs - although we have used one week to stay there as it is an excellent resort.


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## needvaca (Jan 9, 2019)

$7500 is good for a Platinum plus 1BR premium (the big unit), but high for a 1BR deluxe (smaller unit)


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## thewinglessone (Jan 9, 2019)

Thanks David! Yes it’s with 2019 usage & will need to pay maintenance fees for the year at closing. But the maintenance fees are what make this appealing! Have you found them to be fairly stable for the last decade?


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## thewinglessone (Jan 9, 2019)

Hi needvaca! Thanks for the response. It is the smaller deluxe unit. What do you think is the “right” price for that?


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## needvaca (Jan 9, 2019)

I'd guess a 1BR Deluxe would go for something like $5000, but I have no data to support that. I've seen a couple 1BR premiums sell for $7500 lately so that's why I mentioned it. 
I'm sure others can opine better.


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## vacationtime1 (Jan 9, 2019)

thewinglessone said:


> Hi I’m being offered a 1bed plat plus week at WKV for $7.5k all in. From my research that seems like a reasonable price but thought I might come check with the experts is this an ok price or would I be overpaying?



It's a good price.  We paid $7,250 all in in 2013 and thought we were stealing it.

We've used the property only once (actually, we used the StarOptions from the property once).  We rented it out the other five years; our rental _*profits*_ (rents less MF's) have been about $6,000.

Edited to add:  When I wrote this, I assumed you meant the 81000 StarOption unit.  The 67100 unit is obviously worth less -- although probably in the $6,000 range.


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## thewinglessone (Jan 9, 2019)

Thanks vacationtime1! Hmm Okay so sounds like it’s not the best deal but probably also not a terrible one. May I ask what the maintenance fees are this year for the premium 1bed?


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## vacationtime1 (Jan 9, 2019)

thewinglessone said:


> Thanks vacationtime1! Hmm Okay so sounds like it’s not the best deal but probably also not a terrible one. May I ask what the maintenance fees are this year for the premium 1bed?



$961 for the large side; $604 for the small side (for 2019). Plus the SVN fee of approx $140 for the first unit, approx $60 for the second, and "free" for additional units.


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## thewinglessone (Jan 9, 2019)

vacationtime1 said:


> $961 for the large side; $604 for the small side (for 2019). Plus the SVN fee of approx $140 for the first unit, approx $60 for the second, and "free" for additional units.



By large you mean premium and small is deluxe? So the difference is somewhere around $300 in MF?


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## DavidnRobin (Jan 9, 2019)

$7500 is too much for 67.1K SOs 


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## mjm1 (Jan 9, 2019)

I agree that is a good price assuming it is the Premium 1BR (the large side)

Mike


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## bizaro86 (Jan 10, 2019)

I've been watching the small 1 bedrooms at WKV for awhile, as I'm likely in the market for one at some point. They seem to come up in the 4-5k range fairly regularly. I even saw a 3k one once... I think 7500 is too much unless that's a great fit for you and you need it now.


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## thewinglessone (Jan 10, 2019)

Thanks for all the input!  I told them I would pay 7k all in but now I’m feeling like I should back off that too...Just not sure how often these units come available?


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## thewinglessone (Jan 10, 2019)

bizaro86 said:


> I've been watching the small 1 bedrooms at WKV for awhile, as I'm likely in the market for one at some point. They seem to come up in the 4-5k range fairly regularly. I even saw a 3k one once... I think 7500 is too much unless that's a great fit for you and you need it now.



Wow really? Yikes definitely seems like even 7k would be an overpay then. I don’t really NEED it now. I can definitely afford to wait for a better deal.


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## teddyo333 (Jan 11, 2019)

I would hold off. I purchased a WKV 1 bedroom premium (Platinum Plus/81K Staroptions) a few months ago for 7K all in. It included 2018 usage that was rented for 1K to bring the actual cost down to 6K. If you are looking for 67K Staroptions you are better off purchasing Vistana Villages Bella or Key West. But if you are looking for WKV premium I would wait.


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## needvaca (Mar 11, 2019)

thewinglessone said:


> Thanks for all the input!  I told them I would pay 7k all in but now I’m feeling like I should back off that too...Just not sure how often these units come available?



I just saw a Premium 1BR Platinum pop up on Redweek today for 7900.  I bet it will go quick.


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## carpie99 (Mar 12, 2019)

Wow ... a 67,100 platinum small bedroom for 602 in maintenance fees might be the best starpoint to dollar ratio in the network ... how much do those units sell for?  Assuming you already have two other units of course.


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## DavidnRobin (Mar 12, 2019)

carpie99 said:


> Wow ... a 67,100 platinum small bedroom for 602 in maintenance fees might be the best starpoint to dollar ratio in the network ... how much do those units sell for?  Assuming you already have two other units of course.



Do you mean SO to dollar (MF/SO) ratio? (MF$ should be in the numerator)
You do not get SPs with resale.

For WKV - the large 1Bd side has same MF/SO as the small 1Bd.  ???

But, the best MF/SO in VSN?
That would be the 3Bd WSJ-VGV Plat+

IMO - 81K SOs is the sweet spot as it will get a 1Bd HI for a week - unless you like studios.

Do not forget VSN fees in calculation.

IME over 10 years - the 1Bd large WKV (Plat+) rents for ~$2K after fees.  ($1000 is essentially the MF/Tax currently).


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## carpie99 (Mar 12, 2019)

DavidnRobin said:


> Do you mean SO to dollar (MF/SO) ratio? (MF$ should be in the numerator)
> You do not get SPs with resale.
> 
> For WKV - the large 1Bd side has same MF/SO as the small 1Bd.  ???
> ...



67,100/609 = 110.18 SO/$ - WKV Small 1 bedroom
257,700/2772 = 92.97/$ - WSJ-VGV Plat+ (your 2017 maintenance fees from the database).  Assuming the maintenance fees plus taxes haven't gone down to $2,338.90 in 2019 would make the small WKV a better deal

81,000/961 = 84.29/$ WKV large 1 bedroom - crazy


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## carpie99 (Mar 12, 2019)

Yes this was assuming you already had at least two other VSN fee properties.


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## DavidnRobin (Mar 13, 2019)

Looks like you are correct.

For 2019:
WKV MFs and Taxes are
1Bd small (67.1K SOs) = $604.43 
(111.0 SO/$)
1Bd large (81K SOs) = $960.89
(84.3 SO/$)
2Bd LO (148.1KSOs) = $1565.31
(94.6 SO/$)

Weird - as I recall from a long time ago they were same (or likely mistaken).
I thought SDO was the only uneven one.

Hmmmm... for SO usage (67.1K SOs is 6 nites in 1Bd HI) — maybe this is better choice.




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## carpie99 (Mar 13, 2019)

DavidnRobin said:


> Looks like you are correct.
> 
> For 2019:
> WKV MFs and Taxes are
> ...



Of course finding a small 1 bedroom platinum cheap looks difficult.


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## Saaz124 (Mar 13, 2019)

Keep your eye open and you will probably find one at your price.  We own two of the small 1BR Platinum because the MF's are cheaper per staroption than the large side.  We have never found an issue reserving with star options at 8 months for any location, but we make sure to avoid the popular times wherever we go.


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## carpie99 (Mar 13, 2019)

Saaz124 said:


> Keep your eye open and you will probably find one at your price.  We own two of the small 1BR Platinum because the MF's are cheaper per staroption than the large side.  We have never found an issue reserving with star options at 8 months for any location, but we make sure to avoid the popular times wherever we go.



What is a good price?


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## Ken555 (Mar 13, 2019)

carpie99 said:


> Of course finding a small 1 bedroom platinum cheap looks difficult.



This is the key issue. I once considered adding one of these as well, since it was the best bang for the buck (sorry David, even back then as I recall) and had an lower entry cost. But, like everything else, it is also impacted by key issues to consider:

1. How long will you keep the unit? For <6 years or so buying SVV is likely a better choice.

2. What do you expect Marriott/Interval to do with Vistana in the next ~5 years? Will this impact your ownership? Your value? 

3. Are you okay visiting Kierland if that was your only option, or using it as an otherwise relatively expensive week for trading in Interval or another exchange? (For comparison, I trade my 2-Bed SDO weeks and typically costs ~$550 plus exchange fees for each 1-Bed, and I always split my 2-Bed, so my typical weekly all in cost is about ~$750 these days (Interval is now $209 for non-Vistana exchanges)).


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## vacationtime1 (Mar 13, 2019)

One big advantage in owning the large side one bedroom platinum plus Kierland is its rentability.  The large side easily rents for ~$2,350 during March; I have been hardpressed to rent the small side (the 67100 unit) for $1,400, and then only as part of a two bedroom rental.

Another advantage of the large side is if you are going to use it yourself; it is larger and nicer (obviously).

The economics of the small side are superior _only if you are going to use its StarOptions every year_.  If you would be using it in Interval, SDO will get you the same trades for a fraction of the cost.


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## carpie99 (Mar 13, 2019)

vacationtime1 said:


> One big advantage in owning the large side one bedroom platinum plus Kierland is its rentability.  The large side easily rents for ~$2,350 during March; I have been hardpressed to rent the small side (the 67100 unit) for $1,400, and then only as part of a two bedroom rental.
> 
> Another advantage of the large side is if you are going to use it yourself; it is larger and nicer (obviously).
> 
> The economics of the small side are superior _only if you are going to use its StarOptions every year_.  If you would be using it in Interval, SDO will get you the same trades for a fraction of the cost.



So I am thinking that for my specific case where I am not looking for a rental stream .... only staroptions or to use as an II trader that the 1 bedroom at Bella is the sweet spot.  I just paid $395 for a 1 bedroom annual (44,000 points) ... the maintenance fees are $576.  Those 44,000 points in WKV maintenance cost would be $396.  Considering the upfront cost of acquisition between $3K and $5K (call it $4K) the breakeven point for the two units is 18 years.  And every year I use it as a trader in II extends the breakpoint another year.

Also ... the minimal extra cost in maintenance fees ($25) versus SDO with the flexibility of the possible use of staroptions (combining with my 81,000 to go to Hawaii) makes it a winner.


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## Ken555 (Mar 13, 2019)

carpie99 said:


> So I am thinking that for my specific case where I am not looking for a rental stream .... only staroptions or to use as an II trader that the 1 bedroom at Bella is the sweet spot.  I just paid $395 for a 1 bedroom annual (44,000 points) ... the maintenance fees are $576.  Those 44,000 points in WKV maintenance cost would be $396.  Considering the upfront cost of acquisition between $3K and $5K (call it $4K) the breakeven point for the two units is 18 years.  And every year I use it as a trader in II extends the breakpoint another year.
> 
> Also ... the minimal extra cost in maintenance fees ($25) versus SDO with the flexibility of the possible use of staroptions (combining with my 81,000 to go to Hawaii) makes it a winner.



The only downside to owning in Orlando is the uncertainty in selling the unit, when you’re ready to do so. That said, Bella should be much easier to sell than others in Orlando because it has the staroptions. I think it’s a good decision, assuming 44k is sufficient for use within the network (which would not be for me).


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## carpie99 (Mar 13, 2019)

Ken555 said:


> The only downside to owning in Orlando is the uncertainty in selling the unit, when you’re ready to do so. That said, Bella should be much easier to sell than others in Orlando because it has the staroptions. I think it’s a good decision, assuming 44k is sufficient for use within the network (which would not be for me).
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk



44,000 is enough for a 1 bedroom in Cancun which is a nice option from Charlotte


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## Ken555 (Mar 13, 2019)

carpie99 said:


> 44,000 is enough for a 1 bedroom in Cancun which is a nice option from Charlotte



That there are nice options with just 44,000 is not the question. It’s not enough for my needs. I won’t go to back to Cancun, for example. 

Most who buy end up needing more than they originally thought. I’m very glad I took my time and bought a 148k week rather than a smaller unit. 


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## carpie99 (Mar 13, 2019)

Ken555 said:


> That there are nice options with just 44,000 is not the question. It’s not enough for my needs. I won’t go to back to Cancun, for example.
> 
> Most who buy end up needing more than they originally thought. I’m very glad I took my time and bought a 148k week rather than a smaller unit.
> 
> ...



With the latest additions I am up 290,500


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## Ken555 (Mar 13, 2019)

carpie99 said:


> With the latest additions I am up 290,500



For some reason I thought the OP had none, so thought my first purchase experience was relevant. But never mind, let’s change focus... so if I was going to add another deed, I doubt I’d add a small 44k week since a) I would never use it in Orlando, b) I would certainly not use it in Cancun, c) it won’t go far in Hawaii, which is where I would use it, and d) I’d rather have another WKV. 


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## mikkey12601 (Mar 23, 2019)

BLUE AYES said:


> I am one of the lucky ones who was able to pick up at Kierland, Platinum, two-bedroom lock off for $12,000.  I had “stalked” this property for quite a while and my research led me to believe that the average selling price was  approximately $15,000, with a general range of $14,000 - $16,000. It is possible that the prices have come down a bit, but I think $14,000 is much more in the ballpark than $12,000. Just my two cents.


I feel like the prices have come down a bit, and I am not sure why (MF increase a few percent?) Currently on redweek there are two listings for 2 bedroom LO, platinum plus for $10,500 and $12,000


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## vacationtime1 (Mar 23, 2019)

mikkey12601 said:


> I feel like the prices have come down a bit, and I am not sure why (MF increase a few percent?) Currently on redweek there are two listings for 2 bedroom LO, platinum plus for $10,500 and $12,000



I saw those also.  I suspect the $10.5K listing is a desperation seller; I would jump on that quick.

The $12.5K is a broker who prices to sell quickly; we have seen him multiple times in the past.  

Once these are gone (and they will go fast), the listing prices will revert to where they were.


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## pacman777 (Mar 23, 2019)

mikkey12601 said:


> I feel like the prices have come down a bit, and I am not sure why (MF increase a few percent?) Currently on redweek there are two listings for 2 bedroom LO, platinum plus for $10,500 and $12,000



I believe the $10.5k listing is pending as I had made an offer and that was the response


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## djohn06 (Mar 24, 2019)

Not the same as what the OP was Looking for but this is a good comparison.

I was patiently looking a for a good deal on a WKV platinum 1 bedroom (81k SO yearly) summer of 2018.  By good deal I was hoping to pay 5k max.  In the process of looking for an annual, I purchased an even year 81k SO for $2,250, and a small WKV 1 bedroom 67k SO platinum odd year for $2,150.  I already had 2 other SVV contracts so these 2 had no impact on the $195 club fee.

So I kind of got what I wanted.


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## djohn06 (Mar 24, 2019)

carpie99 said:


> So I am thinking that for my specific case where I am not looking for a rental stream .... only staroptions or to use as an II trader that the 1 bedroom at Bella is the sweet spot.  I just paid $395 for a 1 bedroom annual (44,000 points) ... the maintenance fees are $576.  Those 44,000 points in WKV maintenance cost would be $396.  Considering the upfront cost of acquisition between $3K and $5K (call it $4K) the breakeven point for the two units is 18 years.  And every year I use it as a trader in II extends the breakpoint another year.
> 
> Also ... the minimal extra cost in maintenance fees ($25) versus SDO with the flexibility of the possible use of staroptions (combining with my 81,000 to go to Hawaii) makes it a winner.



For those not interested in renting, this is a good strategy.  I did not realize Bella had such a low maint fee on a 1 bedroom.  I could buy two of them to get above 81k and that would put the maint fee at $1,152.  Not bad.


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## carpie99 (Mar 24, 2019)

djohn06 said:


> For those not interested in renting, this is a good strategy.  I did not realize Bella had such a low maint fee on a 1 bedroom.  I could buy two of them to get above 81k and that would put the maint fee at $1,152.  Not bad.



The Bella 1 bedroom is such a winner I just bought another odd and even Bella 1bed platinum for $195 each.  I am not interested in waiting 18 years for the WKV to be a better option.


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## Ken555 (Mar 25, 2019)

carpie99 said:


> The Bella 1 bedroom is such a winner I just bought another odd and even Bella 1bed platinum for $195 each.  I am not interested in waiting 18 years for the WKV to be a better option.



Bella deed for $195 would be a great buy.


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## DavidnRobin (Mar 25, 2019)

18 years?
I bought WKV resale in 2007 for $10K that is now worth ~$7K (~$3K loss)

However, since 2007, I have rented for an average profit of ~$1200 per year (~$14K over 12 years).

$14,000 - $3000 = $11,000 gain
since 2007, and still have the WKV villa worth ~$7K if I were to sell (nope...).

Renting the Plat+ WKV villa has been relatively easy. In fact, currently I get contacted to rent these out from StayPC well in advance (a very smooth transaction).

This is a huge advantage of WKV over SVV-Bella. The only downside is the upfront cost.






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## vacationtime1 (Mar 25, 2019)

Our experience is similar to David's.  We bought a WKV 1bd Plat+ several years ago for $7,250.  We have rented it every year except one (exchanged into WKORV); our overall rental _profit_ is >$8K. 

We bought this interval to use, but renting has been so profitable -- and we have too many units anyway -- that this secondary use has been useful, to say the least.  We average a 18% ROI on our $7,250 "investment".


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## carpie99 (Mar 25, 2019)

DavidnRobin said:


> 18 years?
> I bought WKV resale in 2007 for $10K that is now worth ~$7K (~$3K loss)
> 
> However, since 2007, I have rented for an average profit of ~$1200 per year (~$14K over 12 years).
> ...



The math was only regarding the staroption/MF ratio not as a rental stream:

I just paid $395 for a Bella 1 bedroom annual (44,000 points) ... the maintenance fees are $576. Those 44,000 points in WKV maintenance cost would be $396. Considering the upfront cost of acquisition between $3K and $5K (call it $4K) the breakeven point for the two units is 18 years. And every year I use it as a trader in II extends the breakpoint another year.

For 44,000 points the SVV annual cost is $180 more expensive than what those same points would be at WKV.  If it costs me $4000 to buy versus $395 then it would take me 20 years to make up that cost .... $3605/$180 = 20.03 years.

Now as a straight rental property ... I might need to consider that


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## carpie99 (Mar 26, 2019)

Redweek had a 2-bedroom platinum for $10,500 that just went up but already has an offer.


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## Tucsonadventurer (Mar 26, 2019)

vacationtime1 said:


> I saw those also.  I suspect the $10.5K listing is a desperation seller; I would jump on that quick.
> 
> The $12.5K is a broker who prices to sell quickly; we have seen him multiple times in the past.
> 
> Once these are gone (and they will go fast), the listing prices will revert to where they were.


Once the buy backs get more aggressive prices will increase


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## DavidnRobin (Mar 26, 2019)

carpie99 said:


> The math was only regarding the staroption/MF ratio not as a rental stream:
> 
> I just paid $395 for a Bella 1 bedroom annual (44,000 points) ... the maintenance fees are $576. Those 44,000 points in WKV maintenance cost would be $396. Considering the upfront cost of acquisition between $3K and $5K (call it $4K) the breakeven point for the two units is 18 years. And every year I use it as a trader in II extends the breakpoint another year.
> 
> ...



I understood that part of math - but all aspects should be considered because just purchase cost recapture  and MFs is an incomplete valuation (as shown by also looking at ease of renting, and rent over MFs) as these aspects are quite important. This goes to the upfront and long-term costs as well.

And it goes beyond Rentability -another important one is Location (Buy where you would want to go).
For us - WKV covers this aspect as it is an excellent resort on it’s own, and we can drive there if needed (e.g. VSN is dissolved, Renting is not feasible anymore, etc.).

Number of VOIs (SOs) also plays a roll. Not dissimilar to the value of SPs (BonVoy Points) based on the number already owned. The value of SOs is tied to the need and ability to use those SOs.

Also, disposable income plays a roll. Less disposable income would support Bella over WKV.

Certainly not a ‘One Size fits All’ scenario.

I am not saying WKV is better than Bella - just that the extrapolation out to the future years based on a single factor that has uncertainty and high potential for variability is too one-dimensional.

Adding the Rental factor substantially deceases those differences causes the cost-recapture valuation calculation to collapse (as discussed).




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## dioxide45 (Mar 27, 2019)

Ken555 said:


> Bella deed for $195 would be a great buy.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


For an EOY 1BR, it is about the going price. I paid $199 (closing costs only) for a Key West 1BR EOY a few years ago off the Bargain Deals forum.


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## Ken555 (Mar 27, 2019)

dioxide45 said:


> For an EOY 1BR, it is about the going price. I paid $199 (closing costs only) for a Key West 1BR EOY a few years ago off the Bargain Deals forum.



I thought he found an annual for $195. Was it EOY?


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## dioxide45 (Mar 27, 2019)

Ken555 said:


> I thought he found an annual for $195. Was it EOY?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


It seems it was two EOY, for $195 each.



carpie99 said:


> The Bella 1 bedroom is such a winner *I just bought another odd and even Bella 1bed platinum for $195 each*.  I am not interested in waiting 18 years for the WKV to be a better option.


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## carpie99 (Mar 27, 2019)

$395 for an annual and $195 for an EOY


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## djohn06 (Apr 4, 2019)

Just received acceptance on an even year Kierland 67k platinum small one bedroom for $2,400.

Sell pays all closing and transfer fees.  No reimbursement on maint fees for 2019 either.

After 2 rentals I will definitely recoup the $2,400 I spent purchasing it.


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## Ken555 (Apr 4, 2019)

djohn06 said:


> Just received acceptance on an even year Kierland 67k platinum small one bedroom for $2,400.
> 
> Sell pays all closing and transfer fees.  No reimbursement on maint fees for 2019 either.
> 
> After 2 rentals I will definitely recoup the $2,400 I spent purchasing it.



Great deal! Where’d you find it? 


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## djohn06 (Apr 4, 2019)

Ken555 said:


> Great deal! Where’d you find it?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


Redweek.


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## carpie99 (Apr 4, 2019)

What is the rental value of a small 1 bedroom platinum?


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## vacationtime1 (Apr 4, 2019)

carpie99 said:


> What is the rental value of a small 1 bedroom platinum?



About $1,400, although I've had much less success renting the small side for that price than the large side for ~$2,350.  I have rented the full two bedroom for $3,750.

The 67100 unit is an excellent and inexpensive StarOption generator -- much more efficient in that role than as a rental.


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