# My new timeshare



## leowis1 (Sep 2, 2013)

Hi all.  I've been reading these boards for a few years now and bought my first timeshare a few weeks ago.  We bought into the Starwood network.  We were staying at the Vistana Villages on a TS promo.  We live in SE PA and have always struggled to find affordable nice vacations for our family (wife & twin 7yr old boys). We've been to a few TS resorts and knew deep down that a TS ownership was right for us.  Eg full kitchen, great pools, beautiful grounds

A couple years ago we bought into Marriotts Destination program with 1500pts.  But after I signed the papers and went home to do some more reading on the resorts, I found that I did not buy enough points for the vacation I thought I was buying.  So I rescinded the contract.  Going into the Starwood presentation I was fully prepared to understand the program.

Even before that, I stopped into Marriotts sales office to inquire about Destination points resale.  They told me that aftermarket points are called 'holding points'.  That is, I could only book reservations 60 days out of the arrival date.  Even though Marrirotts resorts and locations are outstanding, I could not afford it.

My wife and I knew that points are deceiving because you have to know the size of the room and location to buy enough points.  We were blinded by the beauty with Marriott.  They also let us know that II is an alternative outside of the Starwood network.  Thanks to your thought posts I knew that II only works when you have trading power.  And Orlando locations lack trading power due to volume of inventory.

I could not afford a 2 bedroom at Vistana for $30k.  I told them that I wanted a 1 bedroom premium at MB Broadway Plantation.  There were none available.  They only had a 2 bedroom in the gold season.  The manager went on II and found that that unit trades into a Vistanta 2bedroom in the summer.  I bought that one with a point value of 44,000 options.

I feel like I hit the lottery.  Not only do I save $17k in up front cost, but I have 1/2 the options with 1/2 the maintenance cost, and the buying power to enjoy a 2bedroom vacation. 

I would be happy with MB.  But if they don't have any availability for me since I booking for the summer when my deed is gold, I'll go to Florida using II.:whoopie:


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## Gophesjo (Sep 2, 2013)

....sigh....  I hope you will enjoy your purchase, and learn how to use what you have bought.


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## AwayWeGo (Sep 2, 2013)

*- - - - - -*

Never mind.


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## DeniseM (Sep 2, 2013)

Not to burst your bubble, but for your future reference, you could have gotten a similar Starwood II trader on the resale market for free.  It is almost never a good idea to buy from the developer.  

-  You don't need Staroptions to trade on II - a week you can get for free, with no Staroptions, will work just as well for a II trader, as a developer week in FL.
-44,000 Staroptions is on the very low end of the scale, and will limit what you can reserve within the Starwood system.
-  On II, you cannot request a 2 bdm. exchange, with a 1 bdm. deposit - the only way to do it is with an instant online exchange - I don't think it's going to be that easy.
-You simply cannot believe what TS sales people tell you.

Next time - vet your purchase here, FIRST.


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## alfasat (Sep 2, 2013)

DeniseM said:


> Not to burst your bubble, but for your future reference, you could have gotten Starwood II trader on the resale market for free.  It is almost never a good idea to buy from the developer.
> 
> -  You don't need Staroptions to trade on II - a week you can get for free, with no Staroptions, will work just as well for a II trader.
> -44,000 Staroptions is on the very low end of the scale, and will limit what you can reserve within the Starwood system.
> ...



I SECOND THAT !!!!!
If you can RESCIND, I would do so and follow Denise' advice !!!!
CZ.


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## timeos2 (Sep 2, 2013)

Unfortunately it is what Denise said. If you can rescind. If not enjoy what you bought & don't worry about what it cost. 

Sent proudly from my Samsung S4 and Tapatalk


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## lalahe (Sep 3, 2013)

leowis1 -  If it is too late to rescind all is not lost.  Unfortunately, I bought my 1st TS before I discovered TUG and I was sold a lot of bs and just didn't know any better.  I felt pretty defeated when I realized what a terrible deal I got and how little I got for my $$.  But, I have found that there are ways to really make what I bought work for me.  By being a little creative and flexible with my dates I am able to make it work with RCI to trade into the areas and resorts I want so I found a way to still gain good value from it - making the best of what I have and still squeezing quality vacations out of it.

If it turns out that you didn't get quite the deal you thought you did - try not to be discouraged - see how much value you can squeeze out of it and make it work for you.  You can still enjoy your TS and get some good vacations out of it.

Best wishes to you!


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## Bill4728 (Sep 3, 2013)

If you bought direct from the developer you did buy something of more value than a resale buyer because you got Star Options. These let you do internal trades into other starwood resorts. A resale buyer of a non mandatory resort doesn't get Staroptions and get internal trading. 

Good Luck and welcome


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## leowis1 (Sep 3, 2013)

Hi. It's ok.  I'm still happy. I bought a 2 br in the gold season. This unit also carries enough options(44000) to rent a 1 br in the summer. It also trades into a 2br in Florida. I get that I prob overpaid from the developer. But the vacation market along the NJ, DE, MD coast are grossly expensive. You have to pay over $2500 to rent a condo and you don't even get a pool. These TS resorts are beautiful. It'll take me 5 or 6 years to recover my money by not going to NJ.


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## SMHarman (Sep 3, 2013)

leowis1 said:


> Hi. It's ok.  I'm still happy. I bought a 2 br in the gold season. This unit also carries enough options(44000) to rent a 1 br in the summer. It also trades into a 2br in Florida. I get that I prob overpaid from the developer. But the vacation market along the NJ, DE, MD coast are grossly expensive. You have to pay over $2500 to rent a condo and you don't even get a pool. These TS resorts are beautiful. It'll take me 5 or 6 years to recover my money by not going to NJ.


http://www.tug2.net/advice/svn_valuechart.pdf
Shows where you star options will take you.  Remember you can bank and borrow these so you could save up a year to use 88k in another year and get to some of the larger rooms or higher point resorts.
As others have highlighted, if you need more space in time, consider looking on ebay or to one of the resale brokers and buy on the resale market.  That will save you some up front costs.
http://www.starwoodvillas.com/?portfolio=using-your-staroptions-chart#!prettyPhoto


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## DavidnRobin (Sep 3, 2013)

leowis1 said:


> I get that I prob overpaid from the developer.



If you consider paying >5x too much from SVO as 'prob overpaid' - then you are correct.

I sat in the WPORV hot-tub last night with some guy bragging about the 10 weeks he owns from SVO and what a TS wizard he is - and all the value he gets. He has never heard about resale or TUG - nor did I want to bust his bubble.  Ignorance can be bliss.


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## leowis1 (Sep 3, 2013)

I looked on Ebay and Redweek.com for resales at Broadway Plantation.  2bedroom gold season.  The few ads I saw were extremely low and I doubt that they're authentic. Probably a scammer.  I would never pursue a real estate purchase over the internet where the asking price is $2000.  The one advertisement on redweek had a 2BR platnium for $16K and $28K.  This seems more reasonable and I paid less than that.  I shopped Marriott's program and realized the same quality of resorts (albeit alot less resorts) can be had at Starwood for alot less.

I think that what's lost on you is the alternative cost.  High quality vacations cost over $3,000 per week.  That's before you buy food and entertainment. I know people who find other families/friends to share the cost of a house or condo rental.  Then you have 8 or 10 people shoved into a little house.  Do you know this?  

If I want to go to a resort (Cancun or Hawaii) that is above my trading power at Broadway Plantation, then I'll bank my options and use II's Getaway benefit to find an affordable location.  After the kids are bigger and I don't want to go to a resort, I'll convert my options to points and travel to different hotels.  In 5years I'll recover every dime of my upfront cost.  And until my kids are bigger, we're going to have beautiful and fun vacations.


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## eal (Sep 3, 2013)

I know it is hard to believe that timeshare developers could be such monumental rip-off artists, but those prices on ebay are legit. The value of a timeshare is only what someone else is willing to pay for it, and those prices on ebay generally reflect that "real" price.


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## vacationhopeful (Sep 3, 2013)

I have brought enough eBAY timeshare weeks to live in Ft Lauderdale every winter --- your idea of Summer vacation with the kids ... but to us senior citizens in NEW JERSEY, South Florida in Feb and Mar is where I (and many other) prefer to vacation.

Fixed and deeded weeks and units ... Feb & Mar, very near the beach (like beach block), with many having ocean views ....

Average Price with all closing costs for each week - Less than $500 --- what does beach block in Avalon, Ocean City, Ventor, Wildwood, etc cost to BUY in NEW JERSEY  ---  ok, costs to RENT in HIGH/PRIME season?


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## SMHarman (Sep 3, 2013)

leowis1 said:


> I looked on Ebay and Redweek.com for resales at Broadway Plantation.  2bedroom gold season.  The few ads I saw were extremely low and I doubt that they're authentic. Probably a scammer.  I would never pursue a real estate purchase over the internet where the asking price is $2000.  The one advertisement on redweek had a 2BR platnium for $16K and $28K.  This seems more reasonable and I paid less than that.  I shopped Marriott's program and realized the same quality of resorts (albeit alot less resorts) can be had at Starwood for alot less.


Those ads are authentic.  Hang around on here long enough and someone will be on the bargain deals forum giving one away.
http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=55
like this
http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=197525&highlight=broadway
or this
http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=196289&highlight=broadway
or
http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=195873&highlight=broadway
or
http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=181079&highlight=broadway
oh, just do a forum search.  The word Broadway brought these out.



leowis1 said:


> I think that what's lost on you is the alternative cost.  High quality vacations cost over $3,000 per week.  That's before you buy food and entertainment. I know people who find other families/friends to share the cost of a house or condo rental.  Then you have 8 or 10 people shoved into a little house.  Do you know this?


Yes I know this if you look over < you will see my location.  I am fully aware that a week on / near an east coast beach in the summer is $$.



leowis1 said:


> If I want to go to a resort (Cancun or Hawaii) that is above my trading power at Broadway Plantation, then I'll bank my options and use II's Getaway benefit to find an affordable location.  After the kids are bigger and I don't want to go to a resort, I'll convert my options to points and travel to different hotels.  In 5years I'll recover every dime of my upfront cost.  And until my kids are bigger, we're going to have beautiful and fun vacations.


You will have beautiful and fun vacations.  That is one thing the TS sales person got right.  You will make the effort for these things to happen and your family will remember them.
For about $2-4k you can buy 81,000 StarOptions in a 2 Bedroom Gold Season Westin Kierland.  For probably what you paid up front you could get 148,100 StarOptions in a 2Bedroom Platinum Plus 2 Bedroom.
Just remember when you go back and they ask you in for an owner update that there is a resale market and those ebay auctions are not scammers, just you and I trying to sell on something we no longer need.


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## PamMo (Sep 3, 2013)

Welcome to timeshare ownership, TUG, and the Starwood forum, Leowis1! It's great that you're happy with your new (well, a few weeks old) purchase, and it sounds like you're going to put it to good use. May you enjoy many wonderful family vacations with your SBP ownership!

Please consider joining TUG. You'll get incredibly useful advice/tips on how to maximize use of your new timeshare. Membership is worth every penny!


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## scootr5 (Sep 3, 2013)

leowis1 said:


> I looked on Ebay and Redweek.com for resales at Broadway Plantation.  2bedroom gold season.  The few ads I saw were extremely low and I doubt that they're authentic. Probably a scammer.  I would never pursue a real estate purchase over the internet where the asking price is $2000.  The one advertisement on redweek had a 2BR platnium for $16K and $28K.  This seems more reasonable and I paid less than that.



No one here wants to argue with you or make you feel bad about your purchase, but that's the reality of trying to resell your SBP unit. I bought a 2 bedroom gold plus SBP off of ebay 3 years ago for $300, and got a 1 bedroom gold plus there from a fellow board member for just the transfer costs of $120. After using that week this summer, I have since given it a different owner for the same costs. 

Heck, there's a long-time member here that's giving away a 2 bedroom SBP gold week for free in the Bargain deals section


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## Ken555 (Sep 3, 2013)

leowis1 said:


> I looked on Ebay and Redweek.com for resales at Broadway Plantation.  2bedroom gold season.  The few ads I saw were extremely low and I doubt that they're authentic. Probably a scammer.  I would never pursue a real estate purchase over the internet where the asking price is $2000.  The one advertisement on redweek had a 2BR platnium for $16K and $28K.  This seems more reasonable and I paid less than that.  I shopped Marriott's program and realized the same quality of resorts (albeit alot less resorts) can be had at Starwood for alot less.



There are many ways to rationalize a timeshare purchase. 

These ads are likely all authentic. For instance, I recently gave away (for free) two 2-bed units at Sheraton Vistana Resort in Orlando. Gave away. For free. It is very possible to get inexpensive deeds in the Starwood network. 

If you are still within your cancellation period, I urge you to strongly consider doing so and then review the resale options available to you. You will never be able to sell your timeshare deed for anything close to what you paid should you need to in future.


Sent from my iPad


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## VacationForever (Sep 3, 2013)

Welcome to TUG.  Hate to say this but you have paid $13K too much.  But so has most of us on TUG, many of us have overpaid by a lot more.  What you bought could be had for about $1 plus closing for about a hundred dollars.  Hindsight is 20-20.  Just learn to use what you have bought.


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## tschwa2 (Sep 3, 2013)

Here on the Bargain board Gold weeks at SBP that are given away with paid transfer and closings can sit for months before finding a taker.  Gold plus weeks can be had for free but you *might* have to pay for or split  the closing costs.  They don't have Staroptions but you could probably rent a prime time small one bedroom for the same as your MF's plus SVN fee.  They would also get you the same trades on II that are available to you.  What you can do that voluntary resale owners can not do is save up two years and get a 1 br in Hawaii or Atlantis during the summer.  This will requiring 2 yrs of MF and 2 yrs of SVN fees but you still might get one at a lower price than renting from an owner.


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## tomandrobin (Sep 3, 2013)

DavidnRobin said:


> If you consider paying >5x too much from SVO as 'prob overpaid' - then you are correct.
> 
> I sat in the WPORV hot-tub last night with some guy bragging about the 10 weeks he owns from SVO and what a TS wizard he is - and all the value he gets. He has never heard about resale or TUG - nor did I want to bust his bubble.  Ignorance can be bliss.




Must be in a really, really, really good mood.....


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## tomandrobin (Sep 3, 2013)

I see your first post said you bought this a few week ago, so I would assume you are past recession. Plus, you seem happy with your decision. 

We all have bought from the developer and there certainly is no wrong in doing so. I hope you enjoy your new purchase, as much as I have enjoyed mine. 

If you have questions about using your week or staroptions, feel free to ask. 

Tom


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## siesta (Sep 3, 2013)

tomandrobin said:


> I see your fist post said you bought this a few week ago, so I would assume you are past ROFR.


 What Tom meant to say was he assumed you are past the rescission period, not right of first refusal(rofr).

Ill echo his point,and be a little blunt so it hits home and you(as well as future readers) dont make the same mistake.

*What you bought you could have essentially gotten for free*, sure it wouldnt have come with staroptions.  But if you wanted staroptions, a $2500 purchase (SVV mandatory phase) would have given you 81k StarOptions or 95k+ if a lockout, so either way your purchase was not a good deal by any stretch of the imagination.

Now you have this timeshare, so learn to make the best of it, and you are in the right place for that. Obviously next time you are about to make a purchase, remember 2 things:

1) Buy resale
2) Consult with your new friends to make sure you are actually getting a good deal.

Consider this a $13000 lesson.  Look before you leap, or more appropriately, do your research BEFORE you commit, and not after the fact to look for reassurance. By your own admission youve read these boards for years, which i dont quite understand how you could think any developer purchase was a good deal, or how you didnt ask us before you purchased, or how you didnt immediately ask for the reassurance you are apparently now seeking but instead asked weeks afterwards and when the rescission period has passed so your stuck. Anyways, that is neither here nor there at this point. But still baffling to me.

Regardless, Welcome to the forum, glad you found us.


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## pacman (Sep 3, 2013)

leowis1 said:


> Hi all.  I've been reading these boards for a few years now and bought my first timeshare a few weeks ago.



Wow, I figure anyone reading these boards for years would never ever buy from the developer. Like others have said - water under the bridge. Westin has very nice properties, and I'm sure you will enjoy your purchase.

pacman


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## WestinOwner (Sep 4, 2013)

DavidnRobin said:


> I sat in the WPORV hot-tub last night with some guy bragging about the 10 weeks he owns from SVO and what a TS wizard he is - and all the value he gets. He has never heard about resale or TUG - nor did I want to bust his bubble.  Ignorance can be bliss.




Did this person explain how they got 10 weeks, or why?  That seems like an extraordinary amount of developer purchases without ever hearing about resales and qualifying them into the network with developer purchases.  Gotta love hot tub talk!


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## kwindham (Sep 4, 2013)

WestinOwner said:


> Did this person explain how they got 10 weeks, or why?  That seems like an extraordinary amount of developer purchases without ever hearing about resales and qualifying them into the network with developer purchases.  Gotta love hot tub talk!



Sounds to me like he had plenty of disposable income?


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## AKE (Sep 4, 2013)

Why believe what someone says? People that brag usually have another agenda whatever that may be (i.e. have you ever heard really rich people bragging about all the money that they make? It is rare whereas the wannabees are the ones who are always spouting off about how much money they make or have etc.).  Buying from a developer these days (no matter how 'good' a deal it may be) and spending in the neighbourhood of $15K + for something that can be got for free or much cheaper does not make sense to me. Many of us did it before TUG or the internet but nowadays? Just shows how good a salesman can be -.


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## PamMo (Sep 4, 2013)

For some people, time is worth more than money. Buying from the developer is so easy - no searching the internet for a seller with the week you want, no auction hassles, no verifying information, no closing company headaches, etc. You just let your salesman know what you want - and voila! It's in your SVN account in a couple of weeks with a few extra perks tossed in. I know people who are very intelligent, savvy, and wealthy who have bought multiple weeks from developers - even though they are well aware of the robust resale market. They know what they want and pay cash. It works for them. It's not for everyone. (It's definitely not for me.)


Did we lose the OP???


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## VacationForever (Sep 4, 2013)

leowis1 said:


> I feel like I hit the lottery.  Not only do I save $17k in up front cost, but I have 1/2 the options with 1/2 the maintenance cost, and the buying power to enjoy a 2bedroom vacation.



Reading through your posts, you bought a 2BR.  While you get only 1/2 the options (downside) you are paying full maintenance cost and not half the maintenance cost.  The same MF applies regardless of whether it is in platinum or gold season.  The issue with gold season is that you get fewer options.


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## hefleycatz (Sep 4, 2013)

You now need to make sure you make the most of what you bought.  First, join Tug.  With a membership you can use the valuable information you will find to increase your vacation experience.  example:  StarOptions dont convert fully to StarPoints.  I have 95,700 SOs that converts to 56,000 SPs.  44,000 SOs would be enough for 1 or 2 nights  maybe?   

Welcome to the wonderful world of timesharing.

lee


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## Joe33426 (Sep 4, 2013)

PamMo said:


> *Did we lose the OP???*



Yes, the OP has left the building....

I think siesta summed it up nicely, the OP was looking for reassurance that it was a good deal, but didn't find that here.


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## SMHarman (Sep 4, 2013)

PamMo said:


> Did we lose the OP???


Last Activity: September 3, 2013 09:33 PM


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## colmo (Sep 4, 2013)

L


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## hefleycatz (Sep 6, 2013)

Thats too bad, they never came back.  If they had been "reading" the boards for so long, why stop now.  Might as well learn along the way.  

lee


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## Ken555 (Sep 6, 2013)

hefleycatz said:


> Thats too bad, they never came back.  If they had been "reading" the boards for so long, why stop now.  Might as well learn along the way.
> 
> lee



I wouldn't be surprised to find them return in a few years to talk up the wonderful deal they got for another timeshare from the developer... Hope I'm wrong.


Sent from my iPad


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## DeniseM (Sep 6, 2013)

It's a bitter pill to swallow - been there done that, and for a LOT more money!   

But if it's not actually a financial hardship for the OP, and it sounds like it isn't, then it's water under the bridge, and next time he can buy resale and average his cost.


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## snickers104 (Sep 6, 2013)

I just don't get it....I have been reading for a mere 2 months and the single biggest thing I learned was the term RESALE!!  Don't see how he could have missed that message.


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## DeniseM (Sep 6, 2013)

He registered a year ago, and before the current thread, only had 5 posts - all on the Marriott forum, so I don't think he was familiar with Starwood.


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## Tfleming675 (Sep 7, 2013)

*Not so bad....*

Now that you have purchased in Florida from the developer you are entitled to purchase resale units at next to nothing. From time to time the property sells off units that other buyers have defaulted on. I picked up one for $1500 and got a ton of Options with low MFs. Now that you are in, enjoy the Options and wait for the next firesale to built your portfolio.


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## Ken555 (Sep 7, 2013)

Tfleming675 said:


> Now that you have purchased in Florida from the developer you are entitled to purchase resale units at next to nothing. From time to time the property sells off units that other buyers have defaulted on. I picked up one for $1500 and got a ton of Options with low MFs. Now that you are in, enjoy the Options and wait for the next firesale to built your portfolio.



I believe they have done this once. Once. And I'm not sure we should hope they do so again in future, since it indicates a larger problem.


Sent from my iPad


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## VacationForever (Sep 7, 2013)

Tfleming675 said:


> Now that you have purchased in Florida from the developer you are entitled to purchase resale units at next to nothing. From time to time the property sells off units that other buyers have defaulted on. I picked up one for $1500 and got a ton of Options with low MFs. Now that you are in, enjoy the Options and wait for the next firesale to built your portfolio.



I believe OP bought a 2BR at SBP, not Vistana Villages.


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## Bob808 (Sep 7, 2013)

There is always SO MUCH negativity on these threads when someone has bought from the developer and NOT ENOUGH welcome to the group or about how to maximize the use of the timeshare for optimal enjoyment.

No wonder the OP is gone.


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## AwayWeGo (Sep 7, 2013)

*Are People Better Off Not Knowing?  Is Ignorance Bliss ?*




Bob808 said:


> There is always SO MUCH negativity on these threads when someone has bought from the developer and NOT ENOUGH welcome to the group or about how to maximize the use of the timeshare for optimal enjoyment.
> 
> No wonder the OP is gone.


No way to sugar-coat what a bad deal it is to pay full freight for timeshares by buying from timeshare companies.  

No use putting lipstick on a pig. 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


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## billymach4 (Sep 7, 2013)

*Good Luck, enjoy!*

Use it in good health! We have advised 99.99% of first time buyers to buy resale. You feel good about a brand spanking new TS from the Developer, 'go with the force Luke'!. 

Yes Alan I know there is no such thing as a new TS! 

Anyway my point is that there must be a healthy developer market in order for us hardcore Timeshare aficionado's to snap up in resale. If if feels good go for it!

:whoopie::whoopie:


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## siesta (Sep 7, 2013)

Bob808 said:


> There is always SO MUCH negativity on these threads when someone has bought from the developer and NOT ENOUGH welcome to the group or about how to maximize the use of the timeshare for optimal enjoyment.
> 
> No wonder the OP is gone.


if you go back and read the posts, almost all of them welcomed the OP, told him how many here made the same mistake, and reassured him he could learn to maximize his purchase.  But this message included the truth about his purchase.  Shouldnt blame the messenger for the info you receive.  If anything, sugar coating his blunder would be a disservice to him, these boards, and the founders of this website. Nothing is better then blunt truth. Only little kids should be coddled when they make mistakes, the rest of us should be able to take the hit, and learn how to dodge it for next time so we dont repeat.


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## Bob808 (Sep 7, 2013)

I have gone back and read the posts.  There is good information there and I don't disagree with the wisdom of buying resale.  I just feel the newbie was bullied by all you smart folks.


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## hefleycatz (Sep 7, 2013)

No way were we bullying.  I bought thru a developer with no knowledge and didn't find tug till about a year after.      So.....I'm just glad I found tug to get the most out of my timeshare.  

He asked for our opinions and also was just beeming about what a great deal he got, we merely just pointed out the obvious and were trying to get him to learn about tug.   Just saying...

lee


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## snickers104 (Sep 7, 2013)

leowis1 said:


> Hi all.  I've been reading these boards for a few years now and bought my first timeshare a few weeks ago.




I just went by his post, I didn't look when he registered.
If someone took my post as bullying--I apologize.  Didn't mean it to come off that way, I was just making a comment about time reading these boards and knowledge gained.  Especially if someone is in the buying market.

Again, I didn't mean to bully anyone.


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## leowis1 (Sep 7, 2013)

I'm back after awhile.  I thought some of the post were over the top.  I feel pretty confident in saying that you're not seeing the big picture.  Yes, if I just bought a timeshare, I would've overpaid.  But I also bought star options.  This new currency allows me to pursue other vacations outside of timeshares.  I.e. cruises, airfare. Yes, I may experience a depreciation when using options for these type of vacations. But the truth is is that if I wanted to go on a cruise and had your timeshare I could not do it. All of my money would be locked up in maintenance fees.  And my vacation time is limited at work. I can only go on one nice vacation a year. Not two. 

I bought freedom and flexibility. And I feel pretty good about getting Marriott quality without Marriott prices.  My kids won't stay kids forever. And when the day comes that they're grown up, my wife and I can take 3 and 4 day trips to Cancun, St. John, or the Bahamas. Can you take your timeshare and break it up into smaller vacations?

You look at timeshare versus timeshare cost. I look at the cost of vacations down at the NJ shore. And I smile knowing my buy back is only 5years and I get all these options to explore different vacations as my life style changes. 

Kind regards.


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## siesta (Sep 7, 2013)

Deleted........


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## presley (Sep 7, 2013)

leowis1 said:


> I'm back after awhile.  I thought some of the post were over the top.



Glad to have you back!  I agree that many people on TUG push their personal opinions too much, but there are people like that all over the world and not just online.  Just ignore the unhelpful posts and absorb all the helpful ones.  You can get a lot out of this place.  

Sorry if you felt like your parade was rained on.  You will have a lifetime of great vacations and you didn't ask for purchase advice, so just bypass anyone who is giving you some unsolicited advice.


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## DeniseM (Sep 7, 2013)

> *I feel pretty confident in saying that you're not seeing the big picture*.   Yes, if I just bought a timeshare, I would've overpaid. *But I also bought star options*. This *new* currency allows me to pursue other vacations outside of timeshares. I.e. cruises, airfare.



Hi again, Leowis1 - Did you know that that this is the Starwood Forum and that we are all Starwood owners here?  We are all very familiar with the Starwood System, and how to use Staroptions.

I am guessing that there is one fact that we haven't made clear to you, so I am going to try one more time: 

You could have bought a Starwood timeshare WITH STAROPTIONS on the RESALE market for a fraction of the cost.  Easily, less than $1,000 - possibly even for free.  You do NOT have to buy from the developer to get Staroptions.

You just can't believe everything the sales people tell you:  they lie.  

Please do your homework before you buy another timeshare - you really don't understand the system...


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## PamMo (Sep 7, 2013)

Welcome back, Leowis1! It sounds like you're planning to make good use of your timeshare. If you stick around with us, you'll keep up to date with Starwood news, and discover creative ways to use your week/StarOptions. This forum (like most internet forums), is filled with opinionated people - we might bark, but won't bite. We just want others to learn from our (many) mistakes, and we like to share our varied experiences. We often disagree with each other, so you'll hear all sides. It's nice to know that someone is always willing to help out when you have a question about the system, a destination, resort, exchange, etc.


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## leowis1 (Sep 7, 2013)

How do you buy star options if not from the developer?

Before I made this purchase I went to the marriott sales office and asked about destination points resale.  You could buy them aftermarket, but they're converted to holding points. With holding points, you can only make reservations within 60 days. I would think star options aftermarket would also have some restrictions. 

Are you saying all rights of ownership are transferable on aftermarket?  Please provide me with a link explaining the transfer process and an aftermarket resale.


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## SMHarman (Sep 7, 2013)

leowis1 said:


> I'm back after awhile.  I thought some of the post were over the top.  I feel pretty confident in saying that you're not seeing the big picture.  Yes, if I just bought a timeshare, I would've overpaid.  But I also bought star options.  This new currency allows me to pursue other vacations outside of timeshares.
> 
> Kind regards.


And going forward if you need more StarOptions you can buy these by buying a unit in the Key West or Bella Vista phases of Sheraton Vistana Villages or in a number of other locations.  You can pick up about 95,700 StarOptions a year buying a SVV contract resale for about $2500.

Enjoy your purchase.  I only bought this year and have learned a lot from everyone here.  I encourage you to stick around and do the same.


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## DeniseM (Sep 7, 2013)

leowis1 said:


> How do you buy star options if not from the developer?
> 
> Before I made this purchase I went to the marriott sales office and asked about destination points resale.  You could buy them aftermarket, but they're converted to holding points. With holding points, you can only make reservations within 60 days. I would think star options aftermarket would also have some restrictions.
> 
> Are you saying all rights of ownership are transferable on aftermarket?  Please provide me with a link explaining the transfer process and an aftermarket resale.



Marriott and Starwood are completely different systems - the rules do not cross over from one system to another.  Have you had a chance to read the Starwood FAQ at the top of the forum?


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## scootr5 (Sep 7, 2013)

leowis1 said:


> How do you buy star options if not from the developer?
> 
> Before I made this purchase I went to the marriott sales office and asked about destination points resale.  You could buy them aftermarket, but they're converted to holding points. With holding points, you can only make reservations within 60 days. I would think star options aftermarket would also have some restrictions.
> 
> Are you saying all rights of ownership are transferable on aftermarket?  Please provide me with a link explaining the transfer process and an aftermarket resale.



Start here.


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## leowis1 (Sep 7, 2013)

Also, with the old timeshare, how do you break your week up into 2 long weekend trips?  And how do you trade into a higher end resort if you lack buying power?


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## DeniseM (Sep 7, 2013)

leowis1 said:


> Also, with the old timeshare, how do you break your week up into 2 long weekend trips?  And how do you trade into a higher end resort if you lack buying power?



It doesn't matter if you buy from the developer or not - with Staroptions, you can "in theory" reserve short stays.  If you have Staroptions, you have the same rights whether you buy from Starwood or the resale market.

However, it is much more difficult than the sales person let on:

1.  You can't make a reservation for less than 7 nights until [90] days out from check-in.

2.  At [90] days out from check-in, the popular resorts are sold out - although there may be some inventory during the off-season - like fall.

3.  At 60 days out from check-in, Starwood can vacuum up all the leftover inventory and rent it out and put the money in their pocket.

I don't know what you mean by "the old timeshare" or "buying power," but sounds like sales person speak to me...

"60" has been corrected to "90" in two of my points above - sorry for the typo.


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## Beefnot (Sep 7, 2013)

leowis1 said:


> Are you saying all rights of ownership are transferable on aftermarket?  Please provide me with a link explaining the transfer process and an aftermarket resale.



Check out the stickies at the top of the Starwood forum.


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## leowis1 (Sep 7, 2013)

Thanks Scott.  I read the resale a section and found this


> In neither case does the ability to convert the week in to Starpoints transfer to the new owner.  Since resale purchases, even those with StarOptions, do not convey all the benefits of developer-purchased properties, they are sometimes called “out of network”, or not part of SVN.



So there you have it, developer purchases do have privileged benefits.  So I couldn't go on cruises or buy airline tickets.


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## VacationForever (Sep 7, 2013)

leowis1 said:


> Before I made this purchase I went to the marriott sales office and asked about destination points resale.  You could buy them aftermarket, but they're converted to holding points. With holding points, you can only make reservations within 60 days.



This info that you got from the Marriott sales office is wrong.  Their sales office was lying to get you to buy from them.  You can buy DC points on the resale market and after paying for additional education fees etc the points can be used exactly in the same way as if you had bought from Marriott.  I suggest you do your research by reading the Marriott board for details.  Several TUGgers have done so successfully.


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## DeniseM (Sep 7, 2013)

leowis1 said:


> Thanks Scott.  I read the resale a section and found this
> 
> So there you have it, developer purchases do have privileged benefits.  So I couldn't go on cruises or buy airline tickets.




That only applies to StarPOINTS - you still can get StarOPTIONS.  StarPOINTS are hotel points, and for your deed, you are just going to get a tiny amount - certainly not enough to justify buying from the developer.

With your deed, you don't have enough StarPOINTS for a plane ticket or a cruise.  Your deed will generate  13,500 Starpoints - that's like 2-3 nights in an inexpensive hotel room.

Again - you cannot believe what the sales people say...


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## VacationForever (Sep 7, 2013)

I just read Denise's post.  That will get you 1 night at a mid range Starwood hotel (~ $300 a night) or 2 nights at a low end Starwood hotel (~ $120 a night). Because you bought a 2Br your MF is around 1k per year, plus SVN fee of about $125.  To convert to Starpoints you will need to pay another $125 (I don't remember the exact numbers).  Now you end up paying $1250 in to get 1 or 2 nights at a Starwood hotel.  It is cheaper to simply pay rack rate.  Not to forget that you had sunk $13k into your timeshare purchase.


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## leowis1 (Sep 7, 2013)

Thanks Denise.  When I read Scott's link, 3 or 4 night trips can be booked less than 90 days from arrival date. So if my wife and I wanted to go to Cancun in February, I really would have no chance of finding availability since this is peek season because of the 60 day window with aftermarket sales. Yes?


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## leowis1 (Sep 7, 2013)

I understand that I don't have many starwood options and would be limited with star points.  But I could always buy more options. What I like about this purchase is that I have freedom to do what I want. I will pay a premium versus paying rack rates, but I'm not paying rack rates plus a maintenance fee on my timeshare if I took your approach. And then I would have to take 2 vacations from work.  One for my timeshare and a second for the cruise. 

Lets say I overpaid by $10,000 in your world. I will spend $10,000 in 4years going to the NJ shore. And I won't even get a pool. 

Can you guys please lighten up on me???


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## DeniseM (Sep 7, 2013)

leowis1 - You want us to tell you that you got a good deal, or even an OK deal, but we don't want you to make the same mistake twice, so we can't do that.

BUT - here is my story - I also bought my first timeshare from the developer and I paid $45,000 - a much bigger mistake than yours - but I didn't do it again - and neither will you.


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## leowis1 (Sep 7, 2013)

To recap
1.  Non voluntary resorts can not be broken down into smaller vacations since they don't have points
2.   II determines where you can trade into bases on the buying power of your home resort.  So I doubt my MB can trade into Colorado during ski season
3.  Star options can be bought from a mandatory resort, but those options have restrictions on reservations
4.  No star points without a developer purchase
5.  Vacations at the NJ shore are grossly overpriced

And I'm the idiot?


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## VacationForever (Sep 7, 2013)

Regarding your comparison with going to NJ shore, we are not saying do not buy timeshare.  We love timeshare.  I own several weeks and points (several weeks from developers and from three different systems).  We are simply saying you didn't make the best available choice.  Since you own it already, just enjoy.  Please do more research before you buy your next timeshare.


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## DeniseM (Sep 7, 2013)

leowis1 said:


> To recap
> 1.  Non voluntary resorts can not be broken down into smaller vacations since they don't have points



Nope - non-voluntary have Staroptions.  
Mandatory = Staroptions
Voluntary = No Staroptions



> 2.   II determines where you can trade into bases on the buying power of your home resort.  So I doubt my MB can trade into Colorado during ski season



Not sure where you are going with this - no one can trade into Colorado during ski season with II.



> 3.  Star options can be bought from a mandatory resort, but those options have restrictions on reservations



Nope - they do not have restrictions - developer Staroptions, and resale Staroptions have the same rules/opportunities.



> 4.  No star points without a developer purchase



The conversion rate from your timeshare week to Starpoints is very poor, so this option has little or no value.



> 5.  Vacations at the NJ shore are grossly overpriced



Yep!



> And I'm the idiot?



Nope - no more than the rest of us who bought from the developer the first time.


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## billymach4 (Sep 7, 2013)

Leowis1,

I am cool with your purchase of Starwood direct from the office. Use it, learn from it, enjoy it. As you use it let us all know how it compares to the resale side of the fence. 

I like your analogy of the Jersey Shore vacation option. Living in the Northeast the prices for Fire Island, Hampton, Cape Code, and Jersey Shore summer rentals are just sky high. This for you is the equalizer and that is totally cool. 

Most of us leverage the loopholes in the system to maximize our vacations. I personally find pleasure in maximizing and stretching my hard earned money.

There are other segments of the population that don't have the patience and will just walk into a store and let a sales person provide goods and services. There is a demand and market for all of the above.


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## VacationForever (Sep 7, 2013)

leowis1 said:


> To recap
> 1.  Non voluntary resorts can not be broken down into smaller vacations since they don't have points
> _If you have bought a voluntary lockoff, you can break it into 2 trades, aka 2 weeks in II. _
> 2.   II determines where you can trade into bases on the buying power of your home resort.  So I doubt my MB can trade into Colorado during ski season
> ...



See responses above.


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## jarta (Sep 7, 2013)

leowis1 said:


> Can you guys please lighten up on me???


 
No.  The point is to embarraass you and make you feel bad.  It's sort of a reverse freudenschade.  But, it's not exclusively something personal about you.  They are also writing for anyone who might read this thread and be considering purchasing directly from Starwood before understanding the entire Starwood system.

You do not seem to understand.  They are right.  You could have had most of the benefits for much less money by purchasing a mandatory resale.  But, don't let them keep you from enjoying your timeshare stays.  And, despite the heartless piling on, stick around TUG and learn how to use what you own to your best advantage.  GLTY.   Salty


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## Sea Six (Sep 7, 2013)

If you want to start racking up StarPoints for flights and hotels, get yourself a Starwood AMEX card.  There's a nice sign-up bonus (25,000 or more points).  Charge everything to the card, just pay it off every month.  Since you bought from the developer, you may get offers to buy StarPoints at a reduced rate of around 1.9 cent per point.  If you want points, that may be a good time to buy them.


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## leowis1 (Sep 7, 2013)

My 44,000 options carries an annual maintenance fee of $962.  That's it.  If I bought a mandatory resale that carries 100,000 to 120,000 options, now I'm paying $2,500 to $3,000 annual fee.  I only need 44,000 to enjoy great vacations with my family.  And my unit can trade into Vistana 2BR without 81,000 options.  Just by using II.

So I overpay by $10,000.  But that $2,000 extra money paid into annual fees gobbles that $10,000 up real fast. My wife works part time and we got catholic school tuition.  I'm thrilled I can afford a beautiful vacation for $962 a year. 

I read all of your mean and condescending post.  I would make the same purchase again.


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## DeniseM (Sep 7, 2013)

> My 44,000 options carries an annual maintenance fee of $962. That's it. If I bought a mandatory resale that carries 100,000 to 120,000 options, now I'm paying $2,500 to $3,000 annual fee.


 I don't know where you are getting those numbers, but you are incorrect - you could have bought 44k staroptions for the same maintenance fee on the resale market, for far less money upfront.  No one is suggesting that you should have bought more.  We can help you here - or not - your choice.


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## ScubaKat (Sep 8, 2013)

I thought Westin Keirland Villas, 1BR platinum is 81,000 options and carries an annual MF of $780.. 2BR has 148.1k options with an annual MF of $1200.. Not $2500-$3000 annual fees?



leowis1 said:


> My 44,000 options carries an annual maintenance fee of $962.  That's it.  If I bought a mandatory resale that carries 100,000 to 120,000 options, now I'm paying $2,500 to $3,000 annual fee.  I only need 44,000 to enjoy great vacations with my family.  And my unit can trade into Vistana 2BR without 81,000 options.  Just by using II.
> 
> So I overpay by $10,000.  But that $2,000 extra money paid into annual fees gobbles that $10,000 up real fast. My wife works part time and we got catholic school tuition.  I'm thrilled I can afford a beautiful vacation for $962 a year.
> 
> I read all of your mean and condescending post.  I would make the same purchase again.


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## VacationForever (Sep 8, 2013)

Plus you could have gotten 81K Star Options for the same MF from the resale market.  It is apparent that you still do not understand the Starwood system.  It is also apparent that you do not wish to understand the system from your last post.   No one is trying to beat you down.


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## VacationForever (Sep 8, 2013)

ScubaKat said:


> I thought Westin Keirland Villas, 1BR platinum is 81,000 options and carries an annual MF of $780.. 2BR has 148.1k options with an annual MF of $1200.. Not $2500-$3000 annual fees?



Yes but OP does not wish to understand this.


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## DavidnRobin (Sep 8, 2013)

Wow - just saw this thread again after posting early on.

The braggart at the hot tub was some rich guy who (like some others) do not want to hear anything that distorts their perception of reality.  I saved a few while there, but I do believe that someone has to keep the boat afloat - so why discourage those who want to throw bad money after worse money (when they have it to burn).

Didn't see any bashing in this thread (guess I must be one...) - just facts based on years of experience.  But.. Please buy as many SVO TSs as possible - it is such a great deal - you can't afford not to...


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## czar (Sep 8, 2013)

As Denise stated, there are many, if not most, people here who bought a developer week first and now realize there is a better route (for most situations). To put this in context, take a look at the newbies board or buying and selling - you'll see the large number of people who bought developer and who are encouraged by a large numbers of Tuggers to rescind. 

In the end, you did a great thing by investing in family vacations. We used to sit around and a couple weeks before my vacation time, trying to figure out what to do. Now, we're much more organized about it and have it budgeted in since we know the cost if our MF and know what we can get for them. 

The thing is, you could have done this cheaper. To put it in perspective, you could have bought a SVV 1br with a $6xx MF with 44k SO for a very small amount of $$ - you can regularly find them for $500 right now. Since SP don't make financial sense, I would not be concerned about losing that one developer perk. And the great thing is you can buy a week like that - and now know enough to moving forward - if you decide 44kSO aren't enough for your regular vacation. 

Good luck, enjoy what you have. You're right, TS makes sense as compared to many other options so you're on your way to enjoying some great vacations. My family, and esp me and my wife, love having 2 br units compared to a hotel room.  

And stick around and learn as much as you can about maximizing your week's value.


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## AKE (Sep 8, 2013)

*Re the STARPOINTS*



leowis1 said:


> To recap
> 1.  Non voluntary resorts can not be broken down into smaller vacations since they don't have points
> 2.   II determines where you can trade into bases on the buying power of your home resort.  So I doubt my MB can trade into Colorado during ski season
> 3.  Star options can be bought from a mandatory resort, but those options have restrictions on reservations
> ...



STARPOINTS can also be obtained by Starwood hotel stays or by outright purchase at any time if you are an SPG (Starwood Preferred Guest) member (which is free to anyone... just sign up online at the SPG website). Starpoints regularly cost $35 per 1000 or on sale at $28 per 1000 several times during the year when Starwood has their promos.  A very basic Starwood hotel (i.e. category 2) can cost as little as 3000 - 4000 starpoints per night in low season / weekend but I would generally avoid these hotels although there are the odd exceptions; the minimum points requirement in Hawaii in off season is 10,000 points per night in Kona (a fairly remote hotel on the big island of Hawaii); decent Starwood hotels in Hawaii are in the neighbourhood of 16,000 - 30,000 starpoints per night. So, unless the developer throws in 100,000 starpoints (and even these only have a market value of around $2500) *don't use this as a criteria for any purchase.*. *As well, someone earlier noted that you would get 13,500 starpoints for your 44,00 staroptions - this only has a market value of $472!*


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## kwindham (Sep 8, 2013)

OP-While some may seem harsh to you, *no one *is trying to bash you.  These people are speaking from *years of experience*.  This message board did not materialize overnight, and these people didn't just buy their TS last week.  They know what they are talking about.  I myself am a relative "newbie", Ive only had my starwood for about 2 years (resale).  I listened to these people and couldn't be more thrilled with what I have.  I paid $0, yes I said $0, for a fantastic trader.

With that being said, what you paid is all water under the bridge now.  As my grandmaw used to say, no use crying over spilled milk.  Enjoy what you have, and trust me,, you will enjoy the ts life.  The memories you make with wife and kids cannot be traded for any dollar amount.  You will cherish your vacations and the time you spend with your family.  And honestly, that is priceless.  But, what they are trying to teach you, is that you could have gotten the same thing for less.  No matter now, water under the bridge, BUT TS is addictive, and when you get ready to buy another, and odds are you will, these people want to make sure you are educated enough to buy resale, so you can maximize your vacation dollar.


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## hefleycatz (Sep 8, 2013)

I dont understand not wanting to use such helpful knowledge.  I guess he just wants to be told  "Great Job"

lee


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## DeniseM (Sep 8, 2013)

I made a far bigger mistake when we bought our first timeshare from Starwood, but I kind of lucked out, because no one on TUG knew much about Starwood then, so they let me slide, and I didn't have to face the reality immediately.  I do remember debating the purchase with a few people - but Starwood was new, so no one really had any facts, yet.  Gradually, I did figure it out on my own, and realized I made a mistake - which was a little less traumatic.  

We totally drank the Kool-aide on that first purchase, and it took a while for reality to set in.  For me, it would have been an sickening shock to have been told straight up that I just blew $45K, so I can understand why the OP is struggling with it.  

Hopefully, the OP will eventually be able to let go of the baloney the sales people told him, and use TUG as a resource for accurate info.


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## leowis1 (Sep 8, 2013)

Denise--did you not tell me that aftermarket mandatory resales have a 60 day reservation window for stays less than 7 days?  Scott's post says that developer sale has a 90 day window for the same vacation.  In other words, if I bought resale and am lucky enough to find availability at Cancun in Feb for 4 days, it's most likely a view of the dumpster or parking lot.  If there's no availability there, I could go to a ski resort in July. Whoppie. 

$13,000 is not $45,000.  You're bitter towards developers. $13,000 is five NJ shore vacations. I'm ok with that.  And now I get the ability to convert my options to points when my lifestyle changes. 

Developer sales and aftermarket resales are not the same product. Carrying on like they are is disingenuous.


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## siesta (Sep 8, 2013)

DavidnRobin said:


> Wow - just saw this thread again after posting early on.
> 
> The braggart at the hot tub was some rich guy who (like some others) do not want to hear anything that distorts their perception of reality.  I saved a few while there, but I do believe that someone has to keep the boat afloat - so why discourage those who want to throw bad money after worse money (when they have it to burn).
> 
> Didn't see any bashing in this thread (guess I must be one...) - just facts based on years of experience.  But.. Please buy as many SVO TSs as possible - it is such a great deal - you can't afford not to...


 yes, if it werent for these people there would be no resales for me and you.

Cant help someone who doesnt want it.  Let them throw it away, the economy needs it these days.


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## DeniseM (Sep 8, 2013)

leowis1 said:


> Denise--did you not tell me that aftermarket mandatory resales have a 60 day reservation window for stays less than 7 days?  Scott's post says that developer sale has a 90 day window for the same vacation.  In other words, if I bought resale and am lucky enough to find availability at Cancun in Feb for 4 days, it's most likely a view of the dumpster or parking lot.  If there's no availability there, I could go to a ski resort in July. Whoppie.



The Staroption reservation rules, and the home resort reservation rules, are EXACTLY the same, whether you buy resale or from the developer.*

*I just figured out what you are referring to - I was typing on my phone in a previous post and I wrote "60" when I meant "90" - my apologies - it has been corrected.  



> $13,000 is not $45,000.  You're bitter towards developers. $13,000 is five NJ shore vacations. I'm ok with that.  And now I get the ability to convert my options to points when my lifestyle changes.



Not bitter at all - just wiser - in fact I bought 2 more Starwood timeshares after that! 



> Developer sales and aftermarket resales are not the same product. Carrying on like they are is disingenuous.



We have been very clear about the differences - the only difference is that you can convert to (a few) Starpoints with your deal - which is simply not worth $10,000, when you can buy the exact same thing on the resale market without the Starpoints, for less than $500 - someone who posted in this thread has done exactly that.

I can see that you have your mind made up, but when you get ready to use your timeshare, you will probably have some questions, and I hope you will come back and let us know what they are.  Good luck!


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## momeason (Sep 8, 2013)

leowis1 said:


> Denise--did you not tell me that aftermarket mandatory resales have a 60 day reservation window for stays less than 7 days?  Scott's post says that developer sale has a 90 day window for the same vacation.  In other words, if I bought resale and am lucky enough to find availability at Cancun in Feb for 4 days, it's most likely a view of the dumpster or parking lot.  If there's no availability there, I could go to a ski resort in July. Whoppie.
> 
> $13,000 is not $45,000.  You're bitter towards developers. $13,000 is five NJ shore vacations. I'm ok with that.  And now I get the ability to convert my options to points when my lifestyle changes.
> 
> Developer sales and aftermarket resales are not the same product. Carrying on like they are is disingenuous.



The reason so many of us keep posting in your thread is to keep others from making the same mistake you made. We try to save all our other newbies from drinking the kool-aid. 
Enjoy your timeshare and we will enjoy our resale Starwood timeshares. There are lots of great benefits to being a Starwood owner especially in Interval International. We all hope you will want to learn about them in the future.
This site is where I learned everything I know about timeshares. We are all trying to help everyone. If we tell you "good job", we will be misleading so many other newbies. We will not do that.
Enjoy what you have and in the future we will be ready to help you when you are ready to learn. Timeshares are great when you learn to use them effectively!


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## SpikeMauler (Sep 8, 2013)

siesta said:


> yes, if it werent for these people there would be no resales for me and you.
> 
> Cant help someone who doesnt want it.  Let them throw it away, the economy needs it these days.



         ^^^this^^^


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## AKE (Sep 8, 2013)

leowis1 said:


> Denise--did you not tell me that aftermarket mandatory resales have a 60 day reservation window for stays less than 7 days?  Scott's post says that developer sale has a 90 day window for the same vacation.  In other words, if I bought resale and am lucky enough to find availability at Cancun in Feb for 4 days, it's most likely a view of the dumpster or parking lot.  If there's no availability there, I could go to a ski resort in July. Whoppie.
> 
> $13,000 is not $45,000.  You're bitter towards developers. $13,000 is five NJ shore vacations. I'm ok with that.  *And now I get the ability to convert my options to points when my lifestyle changes. *
> 
> Developer sales and aftermarket resales are not the same product. Carrying on like they are is disingenuous.



See my post above re the value of the starpoints that you would get if you were to switch them from staroptions.  i.e. value of LESS than $500 which is about half your maintenance fee.

90 days or 60 days out does not make much difference - you can get lucky either way and especially in the off-season but prime time at prime resorts are rare and the larger the unit, the harder it is to get. I have owned timeshares for more than 20 years as have many posters here so we do know what we are talking about and the NUMBER ONE rule is to NEVER believe a TS salesman  - they will tell you what you want to hear but ask them to put it in writing and they will run the other way.... but we do need people to buy from the developer because if none of us did (i.e. we all only bought resale) then the resale prices would rise (or it would be a bit harder to find the freebees). -


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## andysnovel (Sep 8, 2013)

leowis1 said:


> I looked on Ebay and Redweek.com for resales at Broadway Plantation.  2bedroom gold season.  The few ads I saw were extremely low and I doubt that they're authentic. Probably a scammer.  I would never pursue a real estate purchase over the internet where the asking price is $2000.  The one advertisement on redweek had a 2BR platnium for $16K and $28K.  This seems more reasonable and I paid less than that.  I shopped Marriott's program and realized the same quality of resorts (albeit alot less resorts) can be had at Starwood for alot less.
> 
> I think that what's lost on you is the alternative cost.  High quality vacations cost over $3,000 per week.  That's before you buy food and entertainment. I know people who find other families/friends to share the cost of a house or condo rental.  Then you have 8 or 10 people shoved into a little house.  Do you know this?
> 
> If I want to go to a resort (Cancun or Hawaii) that is above my trading power at Broadway Plantation, then I'll bank my options and use II's Getaway benefit to find an affordable location.  After the kids are bigger and I don't want to go to a resort, I'll convert my options to points and travel to different hotels.  In 5years I'll recover every dime of my upfront cost.  And until my kids are bigger, we're going to have beautiful and fun vacations.



I own a mandatory 2 br starwood timeshare at key west, vs villages, orlando and a 2 br startwood timeshare at sheration broadyway plantation, myrtle beach, both purchased on ebay, the first one gives me 81,000 star options every year, i paid $2,100 for it and the myrtle beach one has no staroptions. Been to myrtle beach now 6years running, prime summer months, 2 bedroom......cost me $2,000 6 years ago...now you can purchase it for $1 on ebay.......andy


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## SMHarman (Sep 8, 2013)

leowis1 said:


> My 44,000 options carries an annual maintenance fee of $962.  That's it.  If I bought a mandatory resale that carries 100,000 to 120,000 options, now I'm paying $2,500 to $3,000 annual fee.  I only need 44,000 to enjoy great vacations with my family.  And my unit can trade into Vistana 2BR without 81,000 options.  Just by using II.
> 
> So I overpay by $10,000.  But that $2,000 extra money paid into annual fees gobbles that $10,000 up real fast. My wife works part time and we got catholic school tuition.  I'm thrilled I can afford a beautiful vacation for $962 a year.
> 
> I read all of your mean and condescending post.  I would make the same purchase again.


You are mixing up timeshare systems.  Starwood is still mostly a weeks based system, so you own a week and pay the MF on that week.  For you the MF on that week is $962.  Now you own in Gold season.  The same owner that owns in Platinum Plus season at the same resort pays $962 in MF but gets 81,000 Star Options.

Unlike say Disney where you buy the points you need and pay MF per point here you buy the week but have a conversion option to Star Options.

The number of options is based on desirability not on the MF.

Regardless of whether you buy retail or resale
Ownership reservations in season can be made at 9am EST 12 months out.
Star Option reservations for a week or more can be made at 8 months out at any resort.
Star Option reservations for a week or less can be made at 60 days out.

For these reasons certain resorts and seasons are desirable.

The ability to book at 12 m into an Orlando week for the February school break, the ability to book into the summer at Atlantis or HI at 12 months out (these are often gone by the time the 8 month mark rolls around).

Then some resorts are desirable for the StarOption to MF value.  Westin Kierland has a more affordable purchase price for a Platinum plus week and a lower MF.  So buying that gets 148k Star Options and a low MF (a little more than yours).  Even buying the 81k Gold + contract there with a 10 year window can be a good plan as you pay less up front but more each year.  Of course that puts you in the 8 month window for booking elsewhere.

Finally if you want to trade outside and use Interval then the SDO resort is popular because both sides are 1 bedroom (not a 1 bed + studio) and the MF are reasonable.  You also have Starwood  > Starwood priority.

Please read and reread the stickys here there is great info there.  Then ask more questions.  As you said, your lesson is a 4 Jersey Shore vacation lesson so not too high a price to pay.  Going forward you can learn about where to buy additional contracts for more SO and then how to maximise booking and also great hints and tips on vendors to use and places to eat and things to see at your destination.


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## DeniseM (Sep 8, 2013)

Here is the reservation chart for a definitive answer - it applies to both resale and developer purchases with Staroptions.  I'm sorry if I confused everyone when I posted "60" instead of "90" in my earlier post.


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## DeniseM (Sep 8, 2013)

From the Starwood FAQ:



> Can you summarize the difference between owning a 1) DEVELOPER unit and owning a 2) MANDATORY resale and a 3) VOLUNTARY resale unit?
> 
> If you buy from the developer:
> •You will pay top dollar - and lose 50-95% when you walk out the door
> ...


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## PamMo (Sep 8, 2013)

Leowis1, we're happy that you're excited about your new timeshare. I think we all can remember the rush we got when we first started timesharing, but we REALLY like learning how to use and expand the benefits of our ownership. TUG offers a more complete and accurate education in timesharing than you'll *ever* get from any sales department. The comments about buying from the developer have to do with how you _could _have gotten great Starwood vacations without spending so much money. With time and experience, you'll understand what we were saying. Most of us love a bargain, and one week of vacation a year simply isn't enough, so we like leveraging our dollars and VOI's (Vacation Ownership Interest) as much as possible.

Enjoy your timeshare, and please let us know how your first Starwood timeshare vacation experience goes!


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## Beefnot (Sep 8, 2013)

leowis1 said:


> $13,000 is not $45,000.  You're bitter towards developers. $13,000 is five NJ shore vacations. I'm ok with that.  And now I get the ability to convert my options to points when my lifestyle changes.



Why do you keep comparing your purchase to NJ shore vacations? Your purchase is not in NJ. Compare it to what you could have paid (resale) to get virtually the same thing, which is what folks are trying to get you to understand.

As for the Starpoints thing--which is the only benefit you lose--it is such a poor use of StarOptions that you would likely exercise that option rarely or never. So a resale purchaser could simply put, say, $2k in the bank today for the two or three occasions in their lifetime that they ever needed to purchase StarPoints in lieu of using their week, and would still save $10k to $11k over the $13k you paid.


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## Ken555 (Sep 8, 2013)

I think the OP is missing one of the aspects of timeshares which comes naturally to some of us - timeshares and their systems are a game which some of us like to play and some don't. Those who don't tend to purchase direct for the perceived benefits and ease of transaction, believing that reservations and priority are better than those who buy on the resale market, assuming they even explore a resale purchase option. Those of us who enjoy this game find creative ways to maximize the value of a timeshare week, be it via II or Starwood, etc. With Starwood there is another option of purchasing mandatory resorts which I consider to be almost as valuable as buying direct (certainly more than sufficient for the majority of us), and/or buying at a resort where I intend to visit so I benefit from the 12 month advance reservation option (exactly the same for resale or direct buyers).

I've enjoyed my Starwood weeks. I'm down to two now (from four not too long ago) and am likely to buy another week sometime soon. There's no way I would even consider buying from the developer for my next week, since I know I would not be able to justify the expense vs the value I would receive from a resale week. 

Of course, before purchasing it helps to fully understand the program. Back when I started with timeshares I took a special trip to Palm Springs, rented a couple of nights in a timeshare to experience it firsthand (which helped me realize that I wanted Marriott, Starwood or Four Seasons and not any other), and had several sales meetings with Marriott and Starwood. Then I researched more online and discovered there was no advantage for me to purchase from the developer. Facts help. And "facts" from any timeshare salesperson (from any network, any resort) hold no value to me since I find them all unreliable. When purchasing a new week among other basic info (such as network, trading value, etc) I would want to know facts such as:

1. Last 5/10 years of maintenance fees and determine the percentage increase on an annualized basis, so I could predict what future years may be.
2. Discover if there have been any special assessments in the last 10 years, to help understand how the board governs the resort. Do they resort to special assessments or do they fund the reserve sufficiently so that special assessments aren't necessary? Is the resort maintained properly or is there a large expense predicted in the next few years? Is the resort in a hurricane zone, etc and does it have proper insurance?
3. Is the Board developer controlled (or "unduly" influenced)? This wouldn't stop me from buying, but I would want to know before purchase.

After so many years participating, reading and learning from TUG, there are some resorts that I believe I know quite well. Some would be easy purchases for me to make due to this experience, but others would take more research. I may explore Hyatt and Hilton again to determine if they may be a good third week for me, but I wouldn't be surprised to end up with another Starwood week. 

One of the main issues new timeshare owners have to realize is that the ability to trade and use their week creatively - as the salesperson likely explained - is not always as flexible as originally thought. Availability for short vacations, value for exchanging the week for cruises or hotels, ability to exchange into other Starwood timeshares - these are never as easy as first thought. Unfortunately, I suspect the OP will realize this the first time he tries to utilize these features. 

I also suggest the OP - and anyone interested in Starwood timeshares - read the FAQ here thoroughly before buying. Ask questions. Read the threads. You're about to spend a lot of money on future vacations - an "investment" as the salespeople say - so you might want to spend the time before committing to understand exactly what you're buying before spending any money. For instance, a Platinum WKV week with 148k StarOptions has a ~$1300 maintenance fee, not much more than the OP's week but significantly more StarOptions, and yet on the resale market doesn't cost much more than he spent. And with 148k StarOptions the possibilities for destinations widen considerably - especially for a 2-bed unit in Hawaii or other higher demand location.

In any case, best of luck to the OP. I join others in hoping you visit here and learn more about what you bought and how best to maximize its use.


Sent from my iPad


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## WestinOwner (Sep 9, 2013)

jarta said:


> They are also writing for anyone who might read this thread and be considering purchasing directly from Starwood before understanding the entire Starwood system.



Salty...  I couldn't agree more.  Hopefully people who were pressured to buy from the developer during their first "presentation" and who do a little internet research read this string (and then immediately rescind).  

That's exactly what I did - bought a WLR week while on vacation at WKORV, then did some research and found TUG.  I rescinded the deal the next day, read much more on TUG, and eventually embarked upon a 1 year search for 3 x 148,100 SDO weeks - found them, and then requalified them into the network with developer purchases - 2 x EOY WKV 2-bedroom and an EOY WSJ 2-bedroom. 

Some people here will question whether I should have bought the developer.  For me, I knew I was spending more, but the benefits of 5* status was worth the additional cost for our travelling lifestyle.  

My real point is that I read TUG and immediately understood it was administered by reliable and knowledgable people who genuinely wanted to  help others.  The decisions I made were mine, but they were informed decisions in large part because of these posts.   I  think leowis1 is failing to appreciate the intentions behind everyone's responding posts - they are to inform him, and others.

Cheers,
Westin Owner


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## Quadmaniac (Sep 9, 2013)

I really don't think anything anyone says will make a difference. He's happy with his purchase at full price and no matter what someone points out, he got a great deal in his mind. Everyone has tried, so what else can be said ??? :deadhorse::deadhorse::deadhorse::deadhorse:

Facts, charts, links and references made no difference. I think people have covered things well with good intentions, but I think this is a lost cause. 

Congrats on your purchase and use it in good health. Once you start to use it, things may start to make more sense.


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## hefleycatz (Sep 9, 2013)

leowise1,  please purchase a tug membership for $15.  This will be the best money spent and will allow you to find the knowledge to help you going forward.  A paid membership will get you into other parts of the boards that you will be able to make the most of your purchase by using II.  There are several tricks that we tuggers have discovered in order to maximize our trading power.  

lee


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## floridabob (Sep 9, 2013)

siesta said:


> Regardless, it wasnt a wasted effort.  Many newbies could learn a lot from this thread.



Agreed. Make it a sticky. :hysterical:


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## AwayWeGo (Sep 10, 2013)

*I Resemble That Remark.*




leowis1 said:


> You're bitter towards developers.


Ya think ?  

Why would anyone feel that way toward companies whose biz plan is truth-stretching & high-pressure guilt-tripping plus psychological manipulation, all packaged in razzle-dazzle & ballyhoo ?  



leowis1 said:


> Developer sales and aftermarket resales are not the same product.


Surely you jest. 

Buy timeshares resale.  Save thousands of dollars on exactly the same thing as full freight, or the equivalent, or something even better. 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


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## billymach4 (Sep 10, 2013)

I knew my man Alan Cole "AwayWeGO" would pounce on this one! :rofl::rofl:


 I gave this guy "Leowis1" the benefit of the doubt. But there is definitely something wrong with his verbal picture!




leowis1 said:


> Developer sales and aftermarket resales are not the same product. Carrying on like they are is disingenuous.


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## channimal (Sep 16, 2013)

OP.. assuming you are not a shill (AND FOR THE BENEFIT OF ANY NEW PERSON OR GOOGLE'R THAT CAME HERE TO FIGURE OUT WHAT THEY GOT THEMSELVES INTO WHEN THEY SIGNED THE DOTTED LINE AT A TIMESHARE PRESENTATION BY DEVELOPER)

DW and I made a $3x,xxx mistake our first purchase about 7 years ago ... the sales people do a very good job showing how "you can save money on your vacations and make sure you take them every year" pitch.  The reality is, almost every one of those timeshares they have for sale can be bought for a fraction of the price they are selling them for.  The old adage, _if we knew then what we know now..._, is directly attributable to the great information and members here at TUG.  What might come across as piling-on (or beating the proverbial dead horse) really is folks trying very hard to help new/prospective TS owners understand reality and not get fleeced.  

Understand, if the ship has sailed, and you bought that TS from a developer and are passed the rescission period.. then join up here to understand how best to maximize the money you have spent.  If you are still within the rescission period (time & process will be clearly stated in your contract/s so read them carefully!) AND RESCIND!!!

Wife and I learned a hard lesson.  We maximize our vacations based on the information we have learned and followed here.. and we have also learned how to buy a timeshare right.

As a footnote, last year we bought a Marriott Harbour Lake 2br lockoff Platinum season, for $800.00 total (closing, costs, transfer fee..everything)! That is thanks to TUG and the great info/people here.


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## AwayWeGo (Sep 19, 2013)

*Just Typing It The Way It Is.*




billymach4 said:


> I knew my man Alan Cole "AwayWeGO" would pounce on this one!


My my dislike of the timeshare development companies is real, but exaggerated.

Of course, without timeshare companies there would be no timeshare resorts for timeshare fans to enjoy.  Yet that in no way excuses a business model based squarely on taking advantage of people's lack of knowledge by pressuring them to _buy-buy-buy_ immediately -- right _now-now-now_ -- before they have any chance to understand the realities of timeshare values & the obligations of timeshare ownership.  

Sure, there's a legally required rescission period during which people can get out of full-freight timeshare purchases if they catch on in time. (A big _if_*.*)  Even that doesn't excuse the take-advantage concept used by the timeshare companies & their high-pressure sales representatives.

Bottom line is that the best interests of the timeshare owners (& customers) & the financial interests of the timeshare companies are 2 separate things with only a minimal zone of overlap.  If the disdain is exaggerated, then so be it. 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


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## rleigh (Oct 2, 2013)

He's excited about his TS, it's too late to rescind, he's made it abundantly clear multiple times he's happy with it, he didn't ask for opinions in the first post, and he even politely asked you all to let up on him.

Trying to say "but it's for his and others own good" is a cop-out rationalization. This went way too far. Beating him over the head 68 times with the same message and continuing to try to argue with him was bad enough. 

But then calling him a shill, questioning his IQ, and continuing the pile-on & berating even after you speculated he was gone for good after not posting for one day? (I get that y'all are good at sniffing out shills, and yeah he could be, but the examples given for his "shill" behavior didn't really cut it.)

Reading this was like watching kids poking a sleeping tiger trying to get the tiger to attack. I felt like I was in junior high watching the kid up against the lockers while kids kept joining the crowd of bullies. This thread would make a great topic for a Sociology class.

I agree this thread is a great lesson for the future---on how NOT to treat newbies.


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## Beefnot (Oct 2, 2013)

Those who are logical, mathematically sound, and intellectually honest, I treat with the utmost respect, newbie or otherwise.


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## suzannesimon (Oct 2, 2013)

Most of us bought from the developer first.  I won't even tell anyone how much I paid for my Marriott holiday weeks in 2008 - too embarrassing - but I have recouped 1/3 in vacation usage and rental income so all is not lost.  

Then we learn from TUG.  I'm at Harborside this week on an exchange and I love the place.  I must own one of these!  I was talking in the pool to someone who bought a 1 bedroom from  the developer.   He loved it here until I told him the resale 3 bedroom prices and he was in shock. I told him he needed to join TUG.  You always can get good value from your high quality hotel timeshares if you use them or rent them.  Pay-back is just much faster with a resale.


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## DeniseM (Oct 2, 2013)

The OP drank the Kool-aide and simply could not accept the truth, despite overwhelming evidence that was presented to him.  He made his position worse with illogical reasoning and angry responses to the facts.

Patting him on the head, does not help the multitude of other newbies who will come along and read his post and think he got a great deal, when in  reality - he got a TERRIBLE deal.


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## csxjohn (Oct 3, 2013)

suzannesimon said:


> I was talking in the pool to someone who bought a 1 bedroom from  the developer.   He loved it here until I told him the resale 3 bedroom prices and he was in shock....



You better brush up on your CPR skills if you continue to do this.:rofl:


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## csxjohn (Oct 3, 2013)

I finally had to read the entire thread because of the number of posts in a short amount of time.

I do not see the beat down of the OP that others have mentioned.

No one has done any name calling.  The OP is the only one who used a "name" in a post when he asked if he was an idiot.

I see it that everyone wants him to enjoy his purchase but when he posts incorrect statements about retail vs. resale, they must be addressed so that others who come here for the first time realize he is wrong in his thinking.

When he said this "I read all of your mean and condescending post. I would make the same purchase again"  it means one of two things to me,

1) he may be a shill who sells for Starwood or

2) he doesn't want to believe what the other Starwood owners know to be fact after repeatedly being told.

Either way, everytime he posts incorrect info it must be addressed.  It is our responsibility to keep the facts separated from the fiction in Timeshare World.

I don't believe any of the post were at all mean or condescending,


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## TUGBrian (Oct 3, 2013)

cleaned up some of the off topic posts and commentary.

pretty sure ive gotten them all, believe I missed a few in my first attempt.

anyway, keep it on topic or the thread will be closed.


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