# Bought resale? We don't want to talk to you...



## vacationbear (Jan 4, 2016)

Hello TUGers

Came back from a week at the Lagoon Tower.
Yet again another great stay in a refurbished room. 

The concierge, after seeing our two TS, suggested to get the owner update to possibly reduce the MF via buying a 3bd at the GW or the new Islander (getting credit for the money already spent). This room would yield the same 21000 points but just one, *lower*, MF- and Elite status on top of that. 

Though that was worth exploring and a lady indeed offered one of two perks:
2 tickets to a big Luau show on the great lawn on 12/31 (worth $125 each) or 50k HHonors points. Both were enough reasons to listen to them for 60 minutes.

We accepted and for some reason the ended up talking to her manager. After a while she returned, embarrassed, and told me that I don't "qualify" for the perks since I bought resale!  

It seems that the sales folks at HHV don't want to talk to the educated buyers who rather buy resale and save tens of thousands of dollars. 

I suppressed a big laugh and went my merry ways.

So, TUGers, realize what we are in the eyes of the HHV sales folks! 


Out of curiosity: how much would a 3bd GW TS with 21k point run these days? Bough from HGVC?


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## artringwald (Jan 5, 2016)

Still want 50K HH points? Get a HH Amex card and spend $750 in the first 3 months. It's one of the few loyalty cards that gives a bunch of points at signup and doesn't have an annual fee.


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## TheCryptkeeper (Jan 5, 2016)

vacationbear said:


> Hello TUGers
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I received similar treatment at W. 57th Street.  After it was discovered we purchased resale, I was rushed through the owner's update, and I left empty handed WITHOUT any of the incentives originally offered to me for going.  It was a waste of my time.


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## frank808 (Jan 5, 2016)

At hhv they started not awarding gifts to attend owner updates last year.  They offered me the standard $150 hilton dollars if we would attend.  Lady called in to make an appointment and was told something.  Then hanging up told us that we did not qualify because we only own resale. 
Guess the hgvc management at hhv decided that resale buyers paying $1 a point for platinum conrracts were not going to spend ten times that to buy direct, even for the elite benefits.  Took a few years but they have caught on that resale buyers are not going to pay full freight.
Now us lowly resale buyers get to enjoy our vacations without being bothered to attend an update.


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## vacationbear (Jan 5, 2016)

frank808 said:


> Now us lowly resale buyers get to enjoy our vacations without being bothered to attend an update.



Yup, and isn't this an added perk? Free of charge :hysterical:

This also means that they are confident to sell the entire Islander to people who are willing to spend 3X, 4X, 5X (or even more) the amount which a unit would cost on the resale market.


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## Jason245 (Jan 5, 2016)

vacationbear said:


> Yup, and isn't this an added perk? Free of charge :hysterical:
> 
> This also means that they are confident to sell the entire Islander to people who are willing to spend 3X, 4X, 5X (or even more) the amount which a unit would cost on the resale market.


Let them.. how would I be able to buy at 10 percent of fair value otherwise..

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## TUGBrian (Jan 5, 2016)

vacationbear said:


> Yup, and isn't this an added perk? Free of charge :hysterical:



agreed!


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## 1Kflyerguy (Jan 5, 2016)

frank808 said:


> At hhv they started not awarding gifts to attend owner updates last year.  They offered me the standard $150 hilton dollars if we would attend.  Lady called in to make an appointment and was told something.  Then hanging up told us that we did not qualify because we only own resale.
> Guess the hgvc management at hhv decided that resale buyers paying $1 a point for platinum conrracts were not going to spend ten times that to buy direct, even for the elite benefits.  Took a few years but they have caught on that resale buyers are not going to pay full freight.
> Now us lowly resale buyers get to enjoy our vacations without being bothered to attend an update.



That is interesting, wonder if this will spread beyond HHV, and they will stop offering "gifts" to attend presentations at other HGVC locations..

I am all for that, i attended a few "updates" after we first bought, but now i value my vacation time far more than the value of the typical gifts...


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## vacationbear (Jan 5, 2016)

Just out of curiosity: how much does a 3bd cost at the Grand Wikikian when bought via HGVC?


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## SmithOp (Jan 5, 2016)

vacationbear said:


> Just out of curiosity: how much does a 3bd cost at the Grand Wikikian when bought via HGVC?




Not sure about GW but its probably in line with the new Islander tower sales, which have been reported anywhere from $43k for a 2 br island view upwards of $200k for a fixed summer week ocean front 3 br.


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## vacationbear (Jan 5, 2016)

SmithOp said:


> upwards of $200k for a fixed summer week ocean front 3 br.



Thank you Dave!!!

This leads to interesting math and once again shows the value of TUG:
Lets assume $200k for a 3db and 21k points. We have paid about $20k for our LT 2bd+.

Savings: a cool $180k   :whoopie:

This would pay for, roughly
- 112 years of $1600 MF
- 514 weeks of a 7 day rental car
- 1058 dinner for two at the very nice "Top of Waikiki" restaurant 
- 1565 ($115 each) Atlantis submarine tours
- 6207 days of parking at the HHV parking garage



TUG rocks!  

Aloha and Mahalo!


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## presley (Jan 5, 2016)

vacationbear said:


> Savings: a cool $180k



For that $180K, you could have eligible for Elite benefits. Who wouldn't want to pay $180K for a gift of a calendar and key card that says Elite on it?


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## Duanerice (Jan 5, 2016)

At Elara a month ago they didn't check that we were resale until after we sat down after the tour, which I actually enjoyed.  Real short meeting, manager didn't even come over but we got our tickets to Jersey Boys.  Great show by the way!


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## Ken555 (Jan 5, 2016)

presley said:


> For that $180K, you could have eligible for Elite benefits. Who wouldn't want to pay $180K for a gift of a calendar and key card that says Elite on it?




HGVC doesn't include luggage tags? Wow, they're cheap.


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## vacationbear (Jan 5, 2016)

presley said:


> For that $180K, you could have eligible for Elite benefits. Who wouldn't want to pay $180K for a gift of a calendar and key card that says Elite on it?




WHAT???  
I would get a calendar and key card w/ Elite on it?????
Thats a bargain!

On the other hand, we did enjoy the clean LT and its still impeccably maintained surroundings! What we learned was that the week after Christmas is (of course) a very busy one (all three HGVC towers were at 100% occupancy) and that came with a higher noise level than what we experienced during our June/ July trips.

Despite the crowds we had no problems whatsoever to find parking on the lower floors of the parking garage which remains a "bargain" at $29 per night compared to whats available nearby. The parking garage on Kalia Rd offered the best deal with a $160 weekly pass. But I'd rather pay those $50 more and enjoy the convenience of a short (and mostly covered) path back to the room when schlepping groceries or water.

$180k also equals 9473 bottles of my favorite Pinot Noir. 
I drink to that!


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## buzglyd (Jan 5, 2016)

presley said:


> For that $180K, you could have eligible for Elite benefits. Who wouldn't want to pay $180K for a gift of a calendar and key card that says Elite on it?



Last time I stayed at KL my key card said Elite. 

Made all the difference!


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## Queen (Jan 5, 2016)

artringwald said:


> Still want 50K HH points? Get a HH Amex card and spend* in the first 3 months. It's one of the few loyalty cards that gives a bunch of points at signup and doesn't have an annual fee.




I am not able to find any information on the card you mentioned. I did a chat with Amex and they say they don't have such a card. Do you have any further information i.e. the name of that Amex card.


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## TUGBrian (Jan 5, 2016)

vacationbear said:


> Thank you Dave!!!
> 
> This leads to interesting math and once again shows the value of TUG:
> Lets assume $200k for a 3db and 21k points. We have paid about $20k for our LT 2bd+.
> ...



that is pretty mind boggling....and leads most people to believe resale cant possibly be the same as retail with such a staggering price difference.


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## alwysonvac (Jan 5, 2016)

Queen said:


> I am not able to find any information on the card you mentioned. I did a chat with Amex and they say they don't have such a card. Do you have any further information i.e. the name of that Amex card.



See HHONORS site for the various credit card offers
http://hhonors3.hilton.com/en/earn-use-points/credit-cards/index.html


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## jestme (Jan 5, 2016)

I am at the LT right now and will be for a couple of weeks. If a Tugger is heere, I'd love to meet for a beer, just send me a private message. Today, I spent 90 minutes on the balcony today waiting for my wife to return because the patio door locked by itself when I went outside. When we got here, a guy had come and put the door back on it's tracks just as we were walking in. I suspect the last guest got locked out too and knocked it off the tracks to get back in. 
Our experience getting our "free gift" was standard, "scratch here, here's your bag and luggage tag. Not interested in an owners update? OK, thanks for dropping by".  I am both a retail and a resale owner. 
However, my wife walked into the HGVC "kiosk" to look at the building model of the new tower. Sales person there was totally different. Even though I've owned here for 10 years, and came another 5 times before that, apparently, "I needed to go on the walking tour to learn about the history of the village." When he said he has worked here for 8 years, (he looks like he is about 22) and that I didn't know what I was talking about with who owned the "Waikikian" land prior to HGVC putting a timeshare on the land, I just about lost it. Then I mentioned the original Kalia mold issue and he said I was making that up, he was now sure I really didn't know what I was talking about. 
"If their mouth is open, they are lying"....


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## rwctravel (Jan 6, 2016)

We're at Kings Land this week, and had a similar experience.  When we went to pick up our free tote bag from the concierge, they tried to get us to do an owners update.  When they figured out we were a resale buyer, the concierge just dropped the subject and asked if we needed anything else.

If buying resale means I don't get pitched at every opportunity...


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## artringwald (Jan 6, 2016)

Queen said:


> I am not able to find any information on the card you mentioned. I did a chat with Amex and they say they don't have such a card. Do you have any further information i.e. the name of that Amex card.



I didn't get the offer until I tried:
1) booking a Hilton reservation (free cancellation)
2) joined the Hilton Honors club (free)
3) when it was ready to request payment, I got this offer:



> Hilton HHonorsTM Credit Card from American Express
> Earn a $50 statement credit after your first purchase on the Card. Plus, earn 50,000 Hilton HHonorsTM Bonus Points
> after you spend $750 in purchases on the Card within your first 3 months of Card Membership.



I applied for the card, spent more than $750, got a $50 statement credit, got 50,000 points credited to my HH account, and used those points to book 3 different hotel reservations. This all happened in less than 2 weeks. :whoopie: I just checked and the offer is still available when you follow steps 1-3. It also works if you're already a HH member.


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## fernow (Jan 6, 2016)

Remember.  Someone has to buy retail (and take the loss) for the unit/points to be available for resale.

So... advise people to attend the presentation and buy!

And tell everyone to stay away from the Big Island.  NOTHING to see here.  Move along.


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## BocaBoy (Jan 6, 2016)

vacationbear said:


> Thank you Dave!!!
> 
> This leads to interesting math and once again shows the value of TUG:
> Lets assume $200k for a 3db and 21k points. We have paid about $20k for our LT 2bd+.
> ...



Of course the following does not change the overall cost savings calculations by nearly enough to reach a different conclusion, but you are comparing a 2BR to a 3BR as if they are the same thing.  The savings on an equal comparison basis are smaller, but still huge.


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## vacationbear (Jan 6, 2016)

BocaBoy said:


> Of course the following does not change the overall cost savings calculations by nearly enough to reach a different conclusion, but you are comparing a 2BR to a 3BR as if they are the same thing.  The savings on an equal comparison basis are smaller, but still huge.



Well, that was exactly the point when I was first approached in the lobby of the LT: consolidate your two TS's into one which might even has a lower MF.

21k points would mean that is has to be a 3bd (or maybe a 2bd penthouse?) plus the coveted (and useless) Elite status.

I have to admit, Elite status at the LT would be somewhat useful for faster check-in/ -out and to get better rooms. 

At Kings Land, by comparison, Elite status is 100% useless as far as I can tell based on our Jul 2015 visit.

Aloha


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## frank808 (Jan 6, 2016)

At LT sometimes the elite line is longer than the regular line.  How does elite status get you better rooms?  I did not know that was a benefit.


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## vacationbear (Jan 7, 2016)

frank808 said:


> At LT sometimes the elite line is longer than the regular line.  How does elite status get you better rooms?  I did not know that was a benefit.



If the tower is full (as it is most days) an Elite member would get a better floor than me assuming we both own the same (2bd+ for example)...


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## frank808 (Jan 7, 2016)

Is this benefit stated somewhere?  I have never heard of this mentioned by the sales guys or here on tug.  They way the sales force works I would think they would be touting this as a benefit of becoming elite.  "Mr. * when you become an elite member in hgvc you will get a better room placement than the regular owners that are not of your illustrious status."


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## vacationbear (Jan 7, 2016)

frank808 said:


> Is this benefit stated somewhere?  I have never heard of this mentioned by the sales guys or here on tug.  They way the sales force works I would think they would be touting this as a benefit of becoming elite.  "Mr. * when you become an elite member in hgvc you will get a better room placement than the regular owners that are not of your illustrious status."



Well- I heard this straight from the horses mouth: a resort manager...


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## frank808 (Jan 8, 2016)

Guess from the resort manager is more reliable from a sales weasel.  Might be their interpretation of elite status.  I just believe if the better room placement was a real benefit of elite status i am sure hgvc sales would play it up.  They seem to interpret everything else with elite status in a good light.


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## presley (Jan 8, 2016)

frank808 said:


> Is this benefit stated somewhere?


What I could find on the Elite website is that Elite Plus (24K points) can upgrade to next best room type in same size prior to arrival. Elite Premier (34K points) can request a specific room when making reservations by phone. 

There is no mention of any automatic upgrades or any level Elite being given a better room than non-Elite at time of check in.


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## Tamaradarann (Jan 8, 2016)

*Sales don't want resale customers and NO GIFTS*



vacationbear said:


> Hello TUGers
> 
> Came back from a week at the Lagoon Tower.
> Yet again another great stay in a refurbished room.
> ...


Over the years we have been told that we can't be invited. A few years ago we were told that since we got 5 gifts from HGVC that we couldn't go to a presentation and get a gift. So we declined anyone who tried to give us an invitation with the reason that we had 5 gifts already. 


We have been told that since we are resale owners we can't go to presentations any longer and receive gifts. I don't know if that is just because we are resale owners or because we have now received 6 gifts and are resale owners. 

Last year one of the people off property in Honolulu tried to sell us on a HGVC timeshare presentation. We told her that we couldn't get a gift because we were resale owners. She didn't believe us so she tried to book the presentation and was told that we were right. We can't receive anymore gifts.


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## 1Kflyerguy (Jan 8, 2016)

presley said:


> What I could find on the Elite website is that Elite Plus (24K points) can upgrade to next best room type in same size prior to arrival. Elite Premier (34K points) can request a specific room when making reservations by phone.
> 
> There is no mention of any automatic upgrades or any level Elite being given a better room than non-Elite at time of check in.



I would guess there is no automatic upgrade, but more the possibility of a space available "upgrade" to better or preferred location...  The Hilton HHonors program has that, and as a Diamond sometimes it works and sometimes not... Your HHonors status is not supposed to count when staying as Timeshare stay, but i do occasionally get thanked for my status when checking in, or even getting the special "HGVC Elite" room key a few times..

Overall i surprised as well that they don't promote room upgrades or placement as an advantage of elite..  But then i am always surprised when the sales person spends so much time talking about how great it is to convert my HGVC points to HHonors points..


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## mrbigolwillee (Jan 8, 2016)

What is ROFR?



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## Ralph Sir Edward (Jan 8, 2016)

mrbigolwillee said:


> What is ROFR?
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk



Right Of First Refusal.

A contract point stating that the timeshare company can buy the timeshare being sold at the price offered, if they choose to do so.


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## vacationbear (Jan 9, 2016)

Tamaradarann said:


> A few years ago we were told that since we got 5 gifts from HGVC that we couldn't go to a presentation and get a gift.



Interesting!

Does anybody have the same experience- just not at HHV?
Since they are booked solid all year long they certainly can play this game...

I wonder if other resorts are just as declining?


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## loosefeet (Jan 10, 2016)

Just returned from Kingsland-the concierge signed us up for an "update", then called to cancel "you bought resale so I can't offer you anything but a discount card."  I actually wanted to hear about the new Maui resort.  Oh well, spent my 90 minutes doing other things.  They must know it's not a good deal, or they would sign up all in hopes they had something new and improved to sell.  Who says a resale owner won't buy from the developer?  Only those that know better, I guess.


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## SmithOp (Jan 10, 2016)

I think the Hawaii resorts are concentrating on the asian customers, they seem to have money to spend and not many buy resale.  

Here where I live in Orange County CA there are busloads of them that fly in to LAX and are delivered to South Coast Plaza high end shopping mall.  We see them wandering around filling up empty suitcases with high end goods. We also see them at the beach around sunset taking photos, I've seen as many as six buses lined up on PCH at Huntington Beach.


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## edwards937 (Jan 19, 2016)

I'm trying to sell a timeshare unit on Tug and got a reply from Timeshare Travel to buy the same.  Has anyone ever dealt with this organization before?


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## alwysonvac (Jan 19, 2016)

edwards937 said:


> I'm trying to sell a timeshare unit on Tug and got a reply from Timeshare Travel to buy the same.  Has anyone ever dealt with this organization before?



Timeshare Travel credibility (2014) -  http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=218968

Read the TUG Sticky post on "How to Sell Your Timeshare (and avoid getting scammed!)" - http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=44

Good Luck and Welcome to TUG


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## TravelAmore (Jan 19, 2016)

loosefeet said:


> Just returned from Kingsland-the concierge signed us up for an "update", then called to cancel "you bought resale so I can't offer you anything but a discount card."  I actually wanted to hear about the new Maui resort.  Oh well, spent my 90 minutes doing other things.  They must know it's not a good deal, or they would sign up all in hopes they had something new and improved to sell.  Who says a resale owner won't buy from the developer?  Only those that know better, I guess.



Wait, there's going to be a new Maui timeshare resort?? Is it a HGVC or ??? Also, someone else mentioned a new Hyatt timeshare/villas on Maui, near the Marriott Maui - is that the new resort you are referring to?


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## ontilt (Jan 20, 2016)

alwysonvac said:


> See HHONORS site for the various credit card offers
> http://hhonors3.hilton.com/en/earn-use-points/credit-cards/index.html



Those 50k HH points aren't even worth one night in a Hampton Inn in NY.  The points have been far devalued IMO to make it worth an exchange or buying into an incentive card.


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## onenotesamba (Jan 20, 2016)

We went to an owners' update in Vegas last weekend.  This was our first stay (open season) since becoming members, and we're resale owners.  They called in advance to schedule it, and offered $100 in dining credits.  They asked us to block off an hour, but we were out in 20 minutes.

My favorite part of the update was when we said that we'd just purchased resale, and the sales guy said, "Well, you know that's not a legitimate deed..."

My husband just about jumped out of his chair and said, "Oh, come ON!  It's legitimate.  They let us check in, here, didn't they?"  My spouse is a mild-mannered guy, but has NO patience for bald-faced lies.  Before we bought resale, the first time we went to a developer presentation, he didn't know much about the club, so I told him to just sit there, smile and nod and say 'no.'  Now that we're owners, and we've educated ourselves about the ins and outs, he's a lot less tolerant of the b.s.  It was kind of funny.  Also, I think he was cranky because we were led to believe that there'd be breakfast, and they only had some packaged muffins and really bad coffee.

Anyway, they tried to sell us 7K points on 2 silver season 2 BR weeks.  We told him that we thought it was a horrible deal to pay two maintenance fees to get 7K points.  He offered to credit the full retail price for our resale unit (which he said was $22K for our 1BR 4800pt Plat Sea World--we paid $2500).  We only had to say no thanks once, before he showed us out.  

I know some people don't want to waste their time, but the $100 dining credits were good at a lot of places that we wanted to try.  We used them at Gordon Ramsay Pub at Caesar's, but it was also good at Ruth's Chris, Mesa Grill, and quite a few other places that looked good to us.


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## holdaer (Jan 20, 2016)

TravelAmore said:


> Wait, there's going to be a new Maui timeshare resort?? Is it a HGVC or ??? Also, someone else mentioned a new Hyatt timeshare/villas on Maui, near the Marriott Maui - is that the new resort you are referring to?



HGVC announced that we'll have a new resort in Maui and should open in 2017. It's a tear down of the old Maui Lu resort.

There are several threads on this and an article in the Club Traveler but I can't figure out how to cut and paste those links.


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## pedro47 (Jan 20, 2016)

Your treatment could be a blessing. Thanks for sharing and thanks for buying resale. You are one very wise & smart consumer.


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## SmithOp (Jan 20, 2016)

TravelAmore said:


> Wait, there's going to be a new Maui timeshare resort?? Is it a HGVC or ??? Also, someone else mentioned a new Hyatt timeshare/villas on Maui, near the Marriott Maui - is that the new resort you are referring to?




Here is the arricle in the Club Traveler, its down near Kihei, not up at Kaanapali.

http://clubtraveler.hgvclub.com/your-club/3-new-club-resorts-horizon


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## 1Kflyerguy (Jan 20, 2016)

onenotesamba said:


> Anyway, they tried to sell us 7K points on 2 silver season 2 BR weeks.  We told him that we thought it was a horrible deal to pay two maintenance fees to get 7K points.  He offered to credit the full retail price for our resale unit (which he said was $22K for our 1BR 4800pt Plat Sea World--we paid $2500).  We only had to say no thanks once, before he showed us out.
> 
> I know some people don't want to waste their time, but the $100 dining credits were good at a lot of places that we wanted to try.  We used them at Gordon Ramsay Pub at Caesar's, but it was also good at Ruth's Chris, Mesa Grill, and quite a few other places that looked good to us.




Glad you got in and out quickly... I have done the updates in person a few times, and at least twice over the phone with someone from Florida HQ... I think i had at least two awful proposals, similar to what they offered you..  

Not sure how many updates i will do in the future.. particularly with the current state of resale prices.


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## Talent312 (Jan 20, 2016)

I used to get calls at home inviting us to "owner updates" but not in over a year.
Maybe 'cuz we're resale owners or 'cuz we never answer calls with a "Hilton" ID.


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## MikeinSoCal (Jan 21, 2016)

fernow said:


> Remember.  Someone has to buy retail (and take the loss) for the unit/points to be available for resale.
> 
> So... advise people to attend the presentation and buy!
> 
> And tell everyone to stay away from the Big Island.  NOTHING to see here.  Move along.


I've always thought this, but never said anything here because I felt I'd get flamed.  :hysterical:


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## fernow (Jan 21, 2016)

MikeinSoCal said:


> I've always thought this, but never said anything here because I felt I'd get flamed.  :hysterical:



Great minds.


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## vacationbear (Jan 21, 2016)

onenotesamba said:


> He offered to credit the full retail price for our resale unit (which he said was $22K for our 1BR 4800pt Plat Sea World--we paid $2500).  We only had to say no thanks once, before he showed us out.



What a great story! We had a very similar experience with RCI (in Vegas) which treated the vacationers as cattle on its way to the timeshare slaughter house. Some where indeed slaughtered (and earned a limo ride back to the strip) while most of us waited  ~25 minutes in a hot bus after they figured out that we are not prey.
After that treatment (which got us >$250 worth in tickets) we knew that we will NEVER buy from them.

And those "deals" they offer! $22k for something you bought for $2.5k? 

TUG saved us well over $100k for our purchases, and the great info being shared here is simply- priceless!  

Go TUG!!!


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