# Am I nuts to consider a Smuggs timeshare at my age?



## pzqrc (Aug 31, 2014)

Just returned from a week at Smugglers' Notch and my wife asked why don't we buy a unit?  I'm 54 my wife is 49 and our kids are 13, 11 and 9, so I figure we have about 5 to 7 years when the kids would still like to go.  I mentioned this to one of the sales reps and she talked about exchanging when the time came.  I told the Mrs she was nuts for wanting to buy but that I would do my due diligence.  In ten years I don't think Smuggs will be an option for me and my oldest will be only 23.  I don't think he would want to take over ownership and be on the hook for maintenance fees once I retire and head south.  Is owning a bad option for me?  Any input pro or con would be appreciated.


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## winnipiseogee (Aug 31, 2014)

We love Smuggs.  But dont EVER purchase directly from Smuggs.  We own Club Wyndham Access points which we use to trade into Smuggs and we've never had any problem getting the weeks we want (as long as we plan ahead).  

Check out Wyndham's family of properties.  There are about 4 or 5 on the east coast that we like to use so even if we don't visit Smuggs we still use the points. 

We have friends who rent from owners at Smuggs but we find we are able to use our points WAY cheaper than they pay to rent.  

If you look on the TUG classifieds you can find points contracts being resold.  

Just noticed you are in NH as well.  Check out Wyndham's Newport and Florida properties.  They have some really nice options in both places.


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## DeniseM (Aug 31, 2014)

> Am I nuts to consider a Smuggs timeshare at *my age*?


For a brave man like you, I can't imagine that anything is too much of a challenge:  





> *I'm 54 *my wife is 49 and *our kids are 13, 11 and 9*



I would be asking, "At my age, am I nuts to have a 13, 11, and 9 year old?"


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## vacationhopeful (Aug 31, 2014)

The way I figure it, his current 13yo will have their first kid when they are 41 and OP will be 95 yo.... when that first grandchild is 13yo...


:ignore::rofl:

PS My youngest sibling was born when my parents were 42 .... At least they were still working when she graduated from college. But her youngest 2 kids were in diapers when her parents were in nursing homes.


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## silentg (Aug 31, 2014)

Never ask am I nuts! You can find many bargin deals for timeshares right here in TUG Marketplace. We have been timeshare owners since 1981 and still enjoy our timeshares. We used to travel with our kids on timeshare vacations, but now they are grown and on their own. My husband and I travel to timeshares together and enjoy seeing new places as well as our home resorts. Join TUG and you will get lots of helpful advice on buying a timeshare without spending a lot of money.


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## Rent_Share (Aug 31, 2014)

Accessing Smuggs and/or Orlando With Points  now, but later having the option to book two one bedrooms without exchange membership would make sense as empty nesters


 My 23 year old youngest, just went on a weeks vacation with us ......


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## ronparise (Aug 31, 2014)

check out this thread to read what the retirement age group has to say about buying timeshares at my age

http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=215256

I would echo the suggestion about Wyndham Points..


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## Rent_Share (Aug 31, 2014)

You should disclose that you are in the business of renting timeshare weeks, the OP is at least a decade younger than you, you old fart . . .



ronparise said:


> check out this thread to read what the retirement age group has to say about buying timeshares at our age
> 
> http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=215256
> 
> I would echo the suggestion about Wyndham Points..


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## CarolF (Aug 31, 2014)

pzqrc said:


> Just returned from a week at Smugglers' Notch and my wife asked why don't we buy a unit?  I'm 54 my wife is 49 and our kids are 13, 11 and 9, so I figure we have about 5 to 7 years when the kids would still like to go.  I mentioned this to one of the sales reps and she talked about exchanging when the time came.  I told the Mrs she was nuts for wanting to buy but that I would do my due diligence.  In ten years I don't think Smuggs will be an option for me and my oldest will be only 23.  I don't think he would want to take over ownership and be on the hook for maintenance fees once I retire and head south.  Is owning a bad option for me?  Any input pro or con would be appreciated.



My DH was older than you, I was about your wife's age and our son was the same as your oldest when we decided to buy our timeshare and take our first skiing/snowboarding holiday.  We all learnt to ski/snowboard together.  We have been every year for the last 7 years and DS is still more than keen to come.  There have been a couple of years when DS couldn't find a friend who was able to come and on both those occasions said "that's fine I'm happy to hang out with you" .

They say "the family that plays together, stays together".


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## DeniseM (Aug 31, 2014)

Rent_Share said:


> You should disclose that you are in the business of renting timeshare weeks, the OP is at least a decade younger than you, you old fart . . .



Gee... I hope you are talking to Ron and not me...


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## WinniWoman (Aug 31, 2014)

My husband is 60 and I am 58. We are summer weeks owners at Smuggs since 1999. Our only child- who is 26 years old- still loves coming to Smuggs and we still go every year using our fixed week and also our floater week most times. We love it and we have a lot of memories there. When our son was younger, we mainly stayed on the resort grounds the whole week. As time went on, we began to do a lot more things outside of the resort as well. We did just exchange a float week for one in New Hampshire and in the past we have exchanged for fabulous vacations all over the country. But we mostly use the floater weeks yearly right at Smuggs. We always use our fixed week there and we like the fact that we can drive there from NY- no airlines. That said, we rented a couple of times before we bought our timeshare. In your case, you might want to do the same. Then, once you get more of a feel and maybe spend some more time on TUG, you will know what is right for you and your family. You are smart to be cautious. I will tell you, although we never regretted buying our timeshare, it will be a huge hassle to dispose of when the time comes. And also, I will tell you we rent from other owners to go to other places in Addition to our Smuggs vacations, instead of being saddled with more maintenance fees, etc. We have rented timeshares through private owners in NH, Scotland, West Yellowstone, and at Smuggs in winter and we also rent homes through Home Away and the rents have been reasonable. So there are options without having to buy anything.


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## Rent_Share (Aug 31, 2014)

DeniseM said:


> Gee... I hope you are talking to Ron and not me...



edited for clarity


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## ronparise (Aug 31, 2014)

Rent_Share said:


> edited for clarity



me too edited for clarity....I didnt mean to say the op was my age..I was trying to reference the group in the thread I linked too

just trying to say buying a timeshare may or may not be a good idea, ; but age has nothing to do with it


60 is the new 40


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## vacationhopeful (Sep 1, 2014)

I agree with the prior poster's comment that age 60 is the NEW age 40...

My youngest sister's quote about her almost 2 year old son was "I will NEVER take him back to WDW!" while he screamed non-stop for 3 days at WDW.

I did take that child back to WDW on SOLO trip when he was 12 for a week - my sister's answer when asked what rides he might enjoy was "nothing dark or enclosed, with things that jump out or make loud noises; I can't think of even ONE ride he will do. Good luck! Have fun! BYE!" I was over 60 years old - just the 2 of us, staying at AKV. We had a GREAT WEEK! And we rode just about everything - I think I dragged him thru the Haunted Mansion 9 times before he agreed that it was FUNNY - which had been the first ride we rode (EMHs are great!).


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## csxjohn (Sep 1, 2014)

pzqrc said:


> Just returned from a week at Smugglers' Notch and my wife asked why don't we buy a unit?  I'm 54 my wife is 49 and our kids are 13, 11 and 9, so I figure we have about 5 to 7 years when the kids would still like to go.  I mentioned this to one of the sales reps and she talked about exchanging when the time came.  I told the Mrs she was nuts for wanting to buy but that I would do my due diligence.  In ten years I don't think Smuggs will be an option for me and my oldest will be only 23.  I don't think he would want to take over ownership and be on the hook for maintenance fees once I retire and head south.  Is owning a bad option for me?  Any input pro or con would be appreciated.



I agree that your age has nothing to do with your decision, you're still a youngster in many of our eyes.

Don't assume the kids won't want to keep going there even when they leave the house.

Do you go just for the kids or do you enjoy it for yourself?  

If it were me, I'd be renting from Ron or Linda or one of the other Wyndham owners here rather than own if you think you may stop going in a few years.


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## tschwa2 (Sep 1, 2014)

Problem with renting from a Wyndham owner is, you aren't eligible to use many of the amenities without paying a la carte which is Very Expensive.  If you exchange through rci or rent from a deeded owner you can at least purchase a discounted pass for most of the amenities.  In the fall and spring it doesn't matter but in the summer and ski season the main reason to go with kids would be to use the great amenities.


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## ronparise (Sep 1, 2014)

tschwa2 said:


> Problem with renting from a Wyndham owner is, you aren't eligible to use many of the amenities without paying a la carte which is Very Expensive.  If you exchange through rci or rent from a deeded owner you can at least purchase a discounted pass for most of the amenities.  In the fall and spring it doesn't matter but in the summer and ski season the main reason to go with kids would be to use the great amenities.



Do wyndham points owners get to use the amenities or get the discounted Smuggs Pass when they stay there themselves?


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## WinniWoman (Sep 1, 2014)

ronparise said:


> Do wyndham points owners get to use the amenities or get the discounted Smuggs Pass when they stay there themselves?



I believe Wyndham owners do not have to buy a Smuggs pass and can use the amenities.


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## WinniWoman (Sep 1, 2014)

tschwa2 said:


> Problem with renting from a Wyndham owner is, you aren't eligible to use many of the amenities without paying a la carte which is Very Expensive.  If you exchange through rci or rent from a deeded owner you can at least purchase a discounted pass for most of the amenities.  In the fall and spring it doesn't matter but in the summer and ski season the main reason to go with kids would be to use the great amenities.



If you rent from a Wyndham owner you are not eligible to purchase a Smuggs pass at all. (Wyndhams way of keeping control for the sales!) You would have to rent from an RCI weeks or Points owner to buy a discounted pass. You can also purchase the passes by the day- don't have to purchase a full weeks' passes. This is a good reason to try to rent from an owner who has a North Hill, Highlands or West Hills unit, as they have their own pools and clubhouse for the days maybe you don't want to buy a pass. There are also quite a bit of fee based activities that have nothing to do with the pass. The main summer benefit in summer is use of all the pools and slides and the Fun Zone, group hikes, mini golf (but there is a better one in Stowe), and such. Plus, don't overlook the fact that there are a lot of things to do outside the resort, especially as the kids get older. We have 20 year winter and summer benefits built into our original purchase. Our son only used the camps for two years. When he got older, we rarely used the other pools as we have our own at Sycamores (West Hill) and most everything else we do now is fee based anyway or off site or we do on our own (like hiking). We never use our passes. When we rented from a winter owner one year, we really didn't use our winter benefits, as we do not ski and that is the main benefit. We ended up doing lots of fee based activities once again, like the snowmobiling and dog sledding (off site), etc. Never used our built in benefits pass.


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## presley (Sep 1, 2014)

If I am reading your post correctly, you want to visit there for the next 5 - 7 years and then probably never again?  Lots of us Tuggers own timeshares thinking that same way.  It boils down to which is more convenient, renting or owning.  You have kids so you need to travel when places are at their busiest.  That is a plus for owning there.  I have no idea if there are other benefits to owning there, but that is something you should explore.

You could rent and not have to deal with the buying in and then selling costs later.  Renting can be cheaper in the long run, but also a big pain if your plans change.  Chances are, another owner won't give you a refund if can't go at the last minute.  Renting directly from the resort would give you your money back.

If you decide to purchase, make sure you buy resale to save thousands of dollars.  When your kids are grown and you don't want to go there anymore, you can exchange for something else.  When you die, your kids do not have to inherit the timeshare and you can specify in your will that you want it to go back to the resort.


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## WinniWoman (Sep 1, 2014)

presley said:


> If I am reading your post correctly, you want to visit there for the next 5 - 7 years and then probably never again?  Lots of us Tuggers own timeshares thinking that same way.  It boils down to which is more convenient, renting or owning.  You have kids so you need to travel when places are at their busiest.  That is a plus for owning there.  I have no idea if there are other benefits to owning there, but that is something you should explore.
> 
> You could rent and not have to deal with the buying in and then selling costs later.  Renting can be cheaper in the long run, but also a big pain if your plans change.  Chances are, another owner won't give you a refund if can't go at the last minute.  Renting directly from the resort would give you your money back.
> 
> If you decide to purchase, make sure you buy resale to save thousands of dollars.  When your kids are grown and you don't want to go there anymore, you can exchange for something else.  When you die, your kids do not have to inherit the timeshare and you can specify in your will that you want it to go back to the resort.



You can purchase insurance for the renting scenario. We always get a $46.00 vacation rental policy from CSA- they cover rentals from private timeshare owners- and that takes care of the cancellation risk, amongst a bunch of other things.


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## pzqrc (Sep 1, 2014)

*Thanks*

Thanks everyone.  All the info that you provided will help a lot!


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## presley (Sep 1, 2014)

mpumilia said:


> You can purchase insurance for the renting scenario. We always get a $46.00 vacation rental policy from CSA- they cover rentals from private timeshare owners- and that takes care of the cancellation risk, amongst a bunch of other things.



That's great to know.  Thanks.


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## WinniWoman (Sep 1, 2014)

The cost of the insurance through CSA depends on the cost of your rental and includes all the people with you on the trip. The $46.00 I quoted was for a 5 day, 4 night rental of $670.00 we are doing in NH. (We live in NY). I also use Vacation Guard Timeshare Plus for my Smuggs ownership and it covers exchanges as well. One rate covers for the whole year and all your timeshare ownerships and exchanges. If you have to cancel, they will reimburse your maintenance fee to you. Yes, you will lose your week, but at least you are not taking a big financial hit. It also covers interruption, emergency medical, trip delay, rental car damage, accidental physical damage to the unit, etc. It's a bit pricey (was $159 for the year for me) but gives me peace of mind. 

Another thing about renting I like is that you can sometimes customize the amount of time/days you go and often the check-in day. Of course, you can also do this as a points owner, but you have to plan way in advance to use your home resort. When renting through a points owner, I usually book way ahead as well, because that owner has to book what I want. I have rented both through points and weeks owners. All have worked out very well.


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## WinniWoman (Sep 2, 2014)

Also, if your go the private rental route- or even the resale route- TUG's Marketplace  is a good place to start, or even Redweek ($15 yearly fee). I have rented off Redweek before and you can even set up to have them send you an email alert when something at Smuggs becomes available. I get at least 4 or 5 emails from them each week, so there is a lot available at Smuggs.


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## persia (Sep 2, 2014)

Is Smuggs still selling their own Timeshares?  I thought they fully drank the Wyndham cool-aid...


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## WinniWoman (Sep 2, 2014)

No. Wyndham handles all sales.


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## persia (Sep 3, 2014)

mpumilia said:


> No. Wyndham handles all sales.



So Wyndham is selling both Club Wyndham Access and Club Wyndham Plus with ownership at Smuggs? What about fixed weeks at Smuggs?


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## WinniWoman (Sep 3, 2014)

persia said:


> So Wyndham is selling both Club Wyndham Access and Club Wyndham Plus with ownership at Smuggs? What about fixed weeks at Smuggs?



Unfortunately, Smuggs is no longer handling resales for the pre-Wyndham owners. Pretty much they are on their own to sell, which many are not happy about. I guess this is a way to try to persuade owners to "upgrade" to Wyndham points?


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## vacationhopeful (Sep 3, 2014)

mpumilia said:


> Unfortunately, Smuggs is no longer handling resales for the pre-Wyndham owners. Pretty much they are on their own to sell, which many are not happy about. I guess this is a way to try to persuade owners to "upgrade" to Wyndham points?



Do YOU know if all the owner's benefits pass onto the new RESALE owners?


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## tschwa2 (Sep 3, 2014)

The prepaid package of benefits that deeded owners bought with the unit does not transfer.  Buying from a deeded owner gets you the use on the deeds and the ability to purchase smuggs passes on a per use basis.


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## vacationhopeful (Sep 3, 2014)

tschwa2 said:


> .....the ability to purchase smuggs passes on a per use basis.



Financial ruin level on the cost per use basis??? Roughly what options are there and those 'about' costs ... or the "go look to" place ...

This is sarcasm ... I think I remember the camp being $125+ per day for each child? And definitely being only able to use the pool associated with your unit was a bit of disappointing and hard to explain to kids who are so smart now.


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## WinniWoman (Sep 3, 2014)

tschwa2 said:


> The prepaid package of benefits that deeded owners bought with the unit does not transfer.  Buying from a deeded owner gets you the use on the deeds and the ability to purchase smuggs passes on a per use basis.



This is correct.


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## WinniWoman (Sep 3, 2014)

vacationhopeful said:


> Financial ruin level on the cost per use basis??? Roughly what options are there and those 'about' costs ... or the "go look to" place ...


 

Not comprehending what you wrote here.


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## tschwa2 (Sep 3, 2014)

mpumilia said:


> Not comprehending what you wrote here.



My guess is auto-completion gone a mock.  My tablet doesn't like timeshare-y abbreviation and comes up with funny sentences if I am not careful.

This is the current link to Smuggs passes: http://www.smuggs.com/pages/universal/smuggspass.php#summer


These are the amenities and prices you would pay as an RCI exchanger or a deeded owner without the pre-paid amenities purchase (which they no longer sell) or if you are renting from a deeded owner.

The original benefits package included everything from the Smuggs pass plus kids camp paid for not just a discount.  If an owner has that package it is good for his/her resisted family only and expires upon a certain date (sold in 10 or 20 year packages) or upon selling the unit.  The package price was also dependent on the number of family members on the deed (at least for the last several years they sold them) so you couldn't send your niece to camp after your children grew up for example.  You also didn't get the benefits if you exchanged back in with a non-smuggs week or one that didn't have the package included.  Earlier sales of the amenities packages were more generous than later ones.

Most deeded units were sold with 2 weeks included on the deed which could not be separated.  Either your choice of a summer or winter fixed week and a fixed schedule float week during the fall and spring.  Alternatively the package could be for 2 EOY units one fixed again either summer or winter and the second one on the fixed schedule float so that one year is fixed and the next year you get the float.  There were a few early summer (weeks 23 and 24 and maybe late summer weeks 33-35?) that were sold as a single unit per deed with no float week required.


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## persia (Sep 3, 2014)

If deeded weeks are not transferred through Wyndham, they how can they tell if an owner is resale or not?  Could a resale owner "upgrade" to developer Wyndham points????


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## tschwa2 (Sep 4, 2014)

When I was there two years ago, retail owners were saying they were offered "today only" the opportunity to give up their deeded weeks for points and lose certain benefits like their guaranteed fixed unit and use of certain pools and amenities even when exchanging to other units through rci for the low, low price of only $20,000-$25,000.  Most thought the pitch was ridiculous.

So I don't think it matters if it was retail or resale with that kind of offer.


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## WinniWoman (Sep 4, 2014)

persia said:


> If deeded weeks are not transferred through Wyndham, they how can they tell if an owner is resale or not?  Could a resale owner "upgrade" to developer Wyndham points????



Do you mean how can Smuggs management tell if you are a resale owner? In that case- through the paperwork when the names are transferred I would think.

Yes-Resale owners can upgrade (ha ha Ha) to Wyndham Points. They are always trying to solicit us when we check-in. I have made a stand and refuse to get my keys from them-I have the check-in person obtain them for me. I have been told I will no longer be hassled on check-in. We shall see. 

Very few Smuggs owners have changed to Wyndham. A bunch did convert to RCI points years ago when the resort started with that program. But the majority of long time owners- especially the 2 week owners, have not converted to either one. A dedicated group we are! That said, as we age, the nature of ownership obviously will change, as it is a Wyndham resort now.

I am a long time 2 week fixed/floater owner with the original benefits package. Unfortunately, I have no grandchildren, so the benefits are wasted now. I have 5 years to go and then they expire. The resort is trying to come up with more of an a la carte benefit plan for renewals, and maybe one for childless/emptynesters as well.


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