# Updated Flex FAQ



## jabberwocky (Sep 12, 2020)

This FAQ has been built upon the previous Flex FAQ by okwiater from 2016 and makes updates to include the Westin Flex and Aventuras Flex systems, as well as some other recurring questions that arise on TUG. I did invite the original author to collaborate on this revision; however, the offer was not taken up and so all errors may be attributed to me.  Please feel free to make suggestions or corrections.  A big thank you to @controller1 and @dioxide45 for sharing a wealth of knowledge on Flex, much of which is reflected in this FAQ.

*What is Flex?*

Flex is a point type of ownership that was introduced in 2015 with Sheraton Flex.  Westin Flex and Aventuras were added in 2018.  Unlike other Vistana ownerships, which are based on a deeded week at a specific resort/unit type/season, Flex ownerships are associated with a certain number of HomeOptions (also referred to as "points").  HomeOptions permit the owner to reserve any available Flex resort within the specific Flex group (Sheraton, Westin, or Aventuras) for any unit type and the season for which they own enough HomeOptions.

*What is Sheraton Flex?*

Sheraton Flex is the first Flex system introduced by Vistana. Sheraton Flex gives the owner 12-month priority access to the following nine resorts:

Sheraton Vistana Resort (FL)
Sheraton Vistana Villages (FL)
Vistana's Beach Club (FL)
Sheraton Desert Oasis (AZ)
Sheraton Broadway Plantation (SC)
Sheraton Steamboat Springs (CO)
Sheraton Mountain Vista (CO)
Sheraton Lakeside Terrace (CO)
Sheraton Kauai Resort Villas (HI)

*What is Westin Flex?*

Westin Flex is a type of ownership introduced in 2018 which gives the owner 12-month priority access to the following eight resorts:

Westin Mission Hills (CA)
Westin Desert Willow (CA)
Westin Kierland Villas (AZ)
Westin Princeville (HI)
Westin Ka'anapali Ocean Resort Villas (HI)
Westin Ka'anapali Ocean Resort Villas - North (HI)
Westin Nanea (HI)
Westin Riverfront (CO)
*What is Aventuras?*
Aventuras is a type of ownership introduced in 2018 which gives the owner 12-month priority access to the following two resorts:

Westin Lagunamar
Westin Los Cabos
At present, the Westin Resort and Spa Cancun is not part of Aventuras.  There has been speculation that this resort will eventually be included.

*Is Flex deeded?*

The Flex trusts are backed by a pool of deeds associated with each of the resorts, unit types, and seasons that make up the respective trust. In the case of the Aventuras program, there are no deeds. Instead, the Aventuras trust is backed by RTU agreements at two Mexican resorts. Flex owners purchase packages of HomeOptions (also referred to as "points"), which bestow the right to utilize a certain portion of the available units held by the trust.

*What are HomeOptions?*

HomeOptions, also frequently referred to as "points," represent a Flex owner's right to make home resort reservations at any of the Flex resorts within the trust that they own (Sheraton, Westin, or Aventuras). Reservations can be made beginning at 12 months prior to arrival, just like any other home resort reservation. However, unlike most other home resort reservations in Vistana, Flex reservations are not limited to week-long reservations beginning on Friday, Saturday, or Sunday. Flex reservations can be made for any check-in day and for any number of nights (up to 14), based on availability. Note that owners of Sheraton Flex only have priority access to home resorts in the Sheraton Flex program. Likewise, Westin Flex Owners only have access to those in the Westin Flex in the 8-12 month period, and Aventuras owners only have priority access to their two resorts.

*What are the differences between HomeOptions and StarOptions?*

Frequently, people overcomplicate their understanding of HomeOptions by thinking of them as completely distinct from StarOptions. However, it is easiest to understand HomeOptions by thinking of them simply as a special type of StarOption, with the following single difference:

_HomeOptions can be used to make home resort reservations at Flex resorts in their Flex group during the home resort preference period._

Note that for a developer or requalified resale package, the home resort preference period is 12 months to 8 months prior to arrival. For resale Flex ownerships, which have not been requalified, an owner can continue making home resort reservations eight months or less prior to arrival. For other Flex ownerships bought from the developer, reservations made eight months or less prior to arrival would be VSN reservations.

*Can HomeOptions be used to reserve any available unit at one of the Flex resorts?*

No. Only a portion of the deeds for each Flex resort is held in their respective trust. The other deeds are owned by other owners who have the right to use their deeded ownerships without competing with Flex owners. This cuts both ways: Flex owners cannot reserve inventory that is held by deeded owners, and deeded owners cannot reserve inventory that is held by the Flex trust.

As such, it is possible for a desired reservation to be available to deeded owners in the priority period but not to Flex owners, and vice versa. In addition, the Flex trusts do not contain deeds for every unit type at every resort. Here are some examples of inventory observations made by Flex owners:

Sheraton Broadway Plantation
3-bedroom Palmetto units do not appear to be part of the Sheraton Flex trust, as they are not reservable using HomeOptions at any time of the year.

Sheraton Steamboat Springs
The East Tower, formerly operated exclusively as a hotel, appears to have been made a part of the Sheraton Flex trust and only reservable by Sheraton Flex owners
3-bedroom units do not currently appear to be part of the Sheraton Flex trust

Westin Hawaii Resorts
There are no oceanfront deeds in the Westin Flex trust
There are no event week deeds (weeks 51-52) in the Westin Flex trust

*How many HomeOptions are required to reserve resort/unit type/season?*

HomeOption values are equivalent to StarOption values for the purpose of calculating the number required for a particular reservation. Simply tally up the weekly and/or daily StarOption values for the desired reservation, and that's how many HomeOptions are required.

The Villa Finder will also specify how many HomeOptions are required in the search results.

*Are there limits to how long or how many reservations I can make?*

You cannot book a reservation using Flex for a period longer than fourteen (14) days.  You can also only have up to three concurrent reservations within the current use year per VOI that you own.

*Can I use HomeOptions like StarOptions to make VSN reservations?*

Yes, as long as the ownership is "qualified," meaning that it was either purchased from the developer or contractually requalified as part of a subsequent developer purchase.

One benefit of HomeOptions is that even if they are used like StarOptions to book a VSN reservation eight months or less prior to arrival, if the reservation is subsequently canceled (prior to the 60-day restriction), they can continue to be used as HomeOptions to make home resort reservations. This is unlike a typical deeded ownership, which loses its home resort preference as soon as it is used to book a StarOptions reservation.

*Can HomeOptions be banked/borrowed?*

No.  Only StarOptions can be banked or borrowed for use in VSN; however, for qualified Flex contracts, it will appear as though you are banking your HomeOptions.

Once you have banked your StarOptions for a particular year, they can no longer be used to reserve for that year.  You cannot bank HomeOptions with the intent of creating a separate "banked HomeOptions" pool that has priority access to the Flex resorts.

While you cannot borrow HomeOptions from a future year to make a reservation, you can borrow StarOptions from the associated VOI to make a reservation through VSN.

*How many HomeOptions come with a Flex ownership?*

Flex ownerships can be sold in any increment of 1,000 HomeOptions, as well as in increments which align with popular week-long reservations (e.g. 67,100, 81,000, 95,700, 148,100; etc.).

There is no reported discount for buying a contract with a larger number of HomeOptions. For example, purchasing two ownerships worth 67,100 HomeOptions and 81,000 HomeOptions will cost the same as a single 148,100 HomeOption ownership (however, there would typically be two closing fees instead of one). This can be useful for requalifying, as it makes it easy to spend just above the requalification threshold.

As of this writing, to requalify a resale week, the minimum purchase is $10,000.  Additional weeks may be requalified for an additional $5000.  There have been recent reports of requalifications occurring at lower purchase thresholds.

*Can smaller Flex ownerships be combined to make a single reservation?*

Yes, Flex ownerships of the same type can be combined to make a single (or multiple) reservations.  For instance, separate 67,100 and 81,000 HomeOption packages could be used to book one week in a single two-bedroom unit on Maui. 

*Can Flex ownerships be deposited into Interval International?*

Yes. You can deposit in several popular increments of HomeOptions, which have varying trading power depending on the number of HomeOptions deposited, as well as the size and TDI of the week you wish to book. The following chart provides the conversion values that are used for trading in Interval.





You can deposit just part of your Flex package.  For example, an owner with a 148,100 HomeOption contract could make a trade for a two-bedroom with a TDI of 90-110 (67,100 HomeOptions) and another two-bedroom with a TDI of 115-130 (81,000 HomeOptions).  Note that despite differences in cost, Flex options from the three systems appear to be treated the same in Interval.

A short video on how to exchange using Flex is here:

Booking an Interval Exchange using Flex

*How do Flex maintenance fees work?*

Maintenance fees are prorated based on the number of HomeOptions owned. Fees do not vary based on the number of ownerships or HomeOptions. For 2021, fees were calculated by multiplying the number of HomeOptions by the respective values for each trust that is owned:

Aventuras: $0.0147/HO

Sheraton Flex: $0.0173/HO

Westin Flex: $0.0206/HO


*When are Flex maintenance fees due?*

Unlike weekly ownerships in Vistana, which have an early January due date for maintenance fees, Flex maintenance fees are usually due in September/October of each year.

*Are Flex ownerships mandatory or voluntary?*

Flex ownerships are voluntary, meaning that membership in VSN (and thus the ability to book with StarOptions) does not transfer on resale. However, a Flex resale purchaser is still entitled to use HomeOptions to make reservations at any of the Flex resorts in the group they own, based on availability in their particular Flex trust.

For example, a Westin Flex ownership that was purchased from the developer can book at the eight resorts within the trust starting at 12 months.  If made within eight months, the reservation would be a StarOptions reservation and could be made at any of the 24 Vistana resorts.

In contrast, the Westin Flex owner who purchased resale could only book at the eight resorts within the Westin Flex trust and would not be able to book at the 16 resorts outside of Westin Flex with StarOptions.

*Can I convert my Flex ownership to Bonvoy Points?*

Flex ownerships can be converted to Bonvoy points as long as the ownership is "qualified," meaning that it was either purchased from the developer or contractually requalified as part of a subsequent developer purchase.

Also, unlike deeded ownerships, which must be converted to Bonvoy in their entirety (except in the case of lock-offs, which can be split), Flex ownerships can be converted to Bonvoy in any increment. For example, with Westin Flex and Aventuras, the calculation is currently performed by multiplying the number of HomeOptions by 1.56. In other words, 100,000 HomeOptions would convert to 156,000 Bonvoy points.

All other applicable Bonvoy conversion policies apply, including fees, bonuses, and every-other-year conversion restrictions. Elite owners continue to receive all published benefits (e.g., fee reductions/waivers, conversion bonuses, etc.) as applicable.

*Do HomeOptions count towards Elite status?*

Yes. HomeOptions count as StarOptions for the purpose of calculating Elite status as long as the ownership is "qualified," meaning that it was either purchased from the developer or contractually requalified as part of a subsequent developer purchase.

*Will additional resorts be added to Flex?*

Sheraton Flex launched with five resorts in 2015, and additional systems and resorts have been added since that time.  Most of the twenty-four Vistana resorts are now available within one of the Flex trusts; however, there are some resorts that are not included at this time:


Sheraton PGA Vacation Resort
Harborside at Atlantis
Westin St. John Resort Villas
Westin Resort & Spa Cancun
Westin Resort & Spa Puerto Vallarta


----------



## DannyTS (Sep 12, 2020)

Great job @jabberwocky !

I am a bit confused about Westin Cancun, wasn't the resort part of Westin Aventuras at one point? At least when they launched the program it was.


----------



## jabberwocky (Sep 12, 2020)

Maybe someone who owns Aventuras can clear this up?

The website for Aventuras currently only lists the two resorts (Lagunamar and Los Cabos).










						Westin Aventuras | Vistana Signature Experiences
					

Discover the Westin Aventuras program, your getaway to the world's most sought-after vacation destinations, cultures and experiences.




					www.vistana.com
				




I'm wondering if the earlier announcement wasn't just a general statement of the resorts that are available in Cancun and Los Cabos, rather than those available in Aventuras. It wouldn't be the first time a timeshare company has tried to make your opportunity set appear larger than it is.


----------



## DeniseM (Sep 12, 2020)

Thank you, jabberwocky!  Well done!  Let's leave it hear for a few days for discussion/input, and then I will move it to the sticky.


----------



## DannyTS (Sep 12, 2020)

jabberwocky said:


> Maybe someone who owns Aventuras can clear this up?
> 
> The website for Aventuras currently only lists the two resorts (Lagunamar and Los Cabos).
> 
> ...


It is very possible. It is also possible that Marriott decided  they have enough inventory in Cancun. If they do not include it in any points program and they do not sell weeks there, does it mean they may intend to sell it?


----------



## CPNY (Sep 12, 2020)

DannyTS said:


> It is very possible. It is also possible that Marriott decided  they have enough inventory in Cancun. If they do not include it in any points program and they do not sell weeks there, does it mean they may intend to sell it?


Maybe it’s going into a common currency program?


----------



## jabberwocky (Sep 12, 2020)

DannyTS said:


> It is very possible. It is also possible that Marriott decided  they have enough inventory in Cancun. If they do not include it in any points program and they do not sell weeks there, does it mean they may intend to sell it?





CPNY said:


> Maybe it’s going into a common currency program?



It may be plausible that they may want to convert the Resort and Spa Cancun to a MVC resort rather than have it go into Westin Flex. IIRC, MVC doesn't have much (if any) Mexico exposure.  Whether this is through a common currency or placing the resort directly into the DP program, I'm not sure.

Edited to add: The thing to remember about the Flex resorts is that the trustees can add and remove inventory from the trust at will.


----------



## CPNY (Sep 12, 2020)

jabberwocky said:


> It may be plausible that they may want to convert the Resort and Spa Cancun to a MVC resort rather than have it go into Westin Flex. IIRC, MVC doesn't have much (if any) Mexico exposure.  Whether this is through a common currency or placing the resort directly into the DP program, I'm not sure.


Hmm I’m assuming they can do that because this was a hotel conversion? I’m sure there are contractual obligations to stop them from doing that with other resorts?


----------



## jabberwocky (Sep 12, 2020)

CPNY said:


> Hmm I’m assuming they can do that because this was a hotel conversion? I’m sure there are contractual obligations to stop them from doing that with other resorts?


I think it is because they don't have many legacy owners at the resort (if any).  If they haven't sold any RTU for individual weeks it would be easy to take anything that was in the Aventuras Trust and transfer it to the MVC DC Trust.  It's messier if they have to start buying weeks from individual owners and transfer them.


----------



## jabberwocky (Sep 12, 2020)

DeniseM said:


> Thank you, jabberwocky!  Well done!  Let's leave it hear for a few days for discussion/input, and then I will move it to the sticky.


Thanks Denise.  In fairness, I had a great template and base to start from.


----------



## controller1 (Sep 12, 2020)

@jabberwocky thanks so much for updating this. I've read through it and I would recommend only one change for clarity. My suggested edit is shown in red only for your convenience as I don't believe it needs to be such in the document!

_*Are there limits to how long or how many reservations I can make?*_ 

You cannot book a stay reservation using Flex for a period longer than fourteen (14) days. You can also only have up to three concurrent reservations within the current use year per VOI that you own.


----------



## jabberwocky (Sep 12, 2020)

controller1 said:


> @jabberwocky thanks so much for updating this. I've read through it and I would recommend only one change for clarity. My suggested edit is shown in red only for your convenience as I don't believe it needs to be such in the document!
> 
> _*Are there limits to how long or how many reservations I can make?*_
> 
> You cannot book a stay reservation using Flex for a period longer than fourteen (14) days. You can also only have up to three concurrent reservations within the current use year per VOI that you own.


Thanks for the feedback. I did edit the FAQ to make the suggested changes.


----------



## Ckhawaii (Sep 12, 2020)

jabberwocky said:


> I think it is because they don't have many legacy owners at the resort (if any).  If they haven't sold any RTU for individual weeks it would be easy to take anything that was in the Aventuras Trust and transfer it to the MVC DC Trust.  It's messier if they have to start buying weeks from individual owners and transfer them.



From what we were told at our update at WLR in February is that they were in the process of adding the Westin Cancun in the Aventuras Trust. This was a few weeks before the world went crazy. Since I told them that I preferred Lagunamar  WAY over the hotel seconds prior, I don’t see a reason why they would lie about that.


----------



## jabberwocky (Sep 12, 2020)

Ckhawaii said:


> From what we were told at our update at WLR in February is that they were in the process of adding the Westin Cancun in the Aventuras Trust. This was a few weeks before the world went crazy. Since I told them that I preferred Lagunamar  WAY over the hotel seconds prior, I don’t see a reason why they would lie about that.


Thanks for letting me know. So if I understand correctly, it is planned and in progress, but not yet part of Aventuras.


----------



## dioxide45 (Sep 12, 2020)

I also find it odd that there is no Sheraton PGA Vacation Resort inventory in the Sheraton Flex trust?


----------



## dioxide45 (Sep 12, 2020)

From what I understand about The Westin Cancun, it was never sold as timeshare. It was strictly a hotel conversation with anticipation to sell as timeshare after conversion. It seems they have never added it to the Westin Aventuras collection. Perhaps they will at some point, but they probably don't need the inventory since I suspect there is still a lot of Home Options available for sale from when they added Cabo.

It would be good to convert it over to a Marriott then Marriott will have access to Cancun and they won't be itching to stay at Lagunamar...


----------



## jabberwocky (Sep 12, 2020)

dioxide45 said:


> I also find it odd that there is no Sheraton PGA Vacation Resort inventory in the Sheraton Flex trust?


I find it odd too - especially since Vistana Beach Club (which isn't branded Sheraton) is in Sheraton Flex.










						Sheraton Flex | Vistana™ Signature Experiences
					

Sheraton Flex brings together six of the best vacation destinations, letting you experience a different vacation each year.




					www.vistana.com


----------



## jabberwocky (Sep 12, 2020)

dioxide45 said:


> I also find it odd that there is no Sheraton PGA Vacation Resort inventory in the Sheraton Flex trust?


I wonder if the association with the PGA on this resort somehow limits including it within the trust?  Wasn't this resort initially developed as a joint venture with the PGA?


----------



## MICROZE (Sep 12, 2020)

Ckhawaii said:


> From what we were told at our update at WLR in February is that they were in the process of adding the Westin Cancun in the Aventuras Trust. This was a few weeks before the world went crazy. Since I told them that I preferred Lagunamar  WAY over the hotel seconds prior, I don’t see a reason why they would lie about that.


We were told the same in Dec-2019.


----------



## Ckhawaii (Sep 13, 2020)

dioxide45 said:


> From what I understand about The Westin Cancun, it was never sold as timeshare. It was strictly a hotel conversation with anticipation to sell as timeshare after conversion. It seems they have never added it to the Westin Aventuras collection. Perhaps they will at some point, but they probably don't need the inventory since I suspect there is still a lot of Home Options available for sale from when they added Cabo.
> 
> It would be good to convert it over to a Marriott then Marriott will have access to Cancun and they won't be itching to stay at Lagunamar...



I think it is still mostly a hotel, only one maybe two of the six buildings have been converted into villas. They have also remodeled some of the hotel rooms. It’s a very small resort compared to Lagunamar.

If we ever do bring in our lagunamar weeks with a Aventuras purchase, I will post all the details of what I find in the governing docs.


----------



## CPNY (Sep 13, 2020)

dioxide45 said:


> It would be good to convert it over to a Marriott then Marriott will have access to Cancun and they won't be itching to stay at Lagunamar...



Would they be itching ? As the MVC sales person told me, “Marriott vacation club owners pride themselves on being Marriott snobs” would little ole Westin be good enough? They have the jam packed Surf and/or Ocean Club to itch to get to. If i go back to Aruba during non COVID times, I’ll opt for an airbnb or a really slow time of the year if there is ever one.


----------



## jabberwocky (Sep 13, 2020)

CPNY said:


> Would they be itching ? As the MVC sales person told me, “Marriott vacation club owners pride themselves on being Marriott snobs” would little ole Westin be good enough? They have the jam packed Surf and/or Ocean Club to itch to get to. If i go back to Aruba during non COVID times, I’ll opt for an airbnb or a really slow time of the year if there is ever one.


Hey, just change the name on the outside of the building, change some of the decor and a bit of furniture, jack up the price by 30% and everyone is happy.


----------



## DannyTS (Sep 13, 2020)

CPNY said:


> Would they be itching ? As the MVC sales person told me, “*Marriott vacation club owners pride themselves on being Marriott snobs*” would little ole Westin be good enough? They have the jam packed Surf and/or Ocean Club to itch to get to. If i go back to Aruba during non COVID times, I’ll opt for an airbnb or a really slow time of the year if there is ever one.



This may be true in some cases. I am pretty sure Lagunamar would be one of the favorite MVC resorts for those that live on the East Coast once it becomes part of the combined system. The pools, the locations, the views, the color of the ocean are all very hard to beat. It also offers more bang for the buck because there are many high end restaurants in proximity that are significantly cheaper than in the US. The day trips to Chichen Itza, Tulum etc are also very interesting and I think other Caribbean destinations do not necessarily offer such an interesting mix of culture, food and beach vacations. Given all that, I am not too interested in going to the other MVC Carribean resorts. We would like to visit Aruba but every time I read about how busy the two resorts are, my enthusiasm pales especially knowing the great experiences I have had at Lagunamar. 

Since I am concerned about the availability once the integration is complete (especially on SO), I am happy if MVC would see more Westin Cancun inventory  rather than Lagunamar. I am not sure that would satisfy the Marriott owners, Westin Cancun has small pools, a so so location, smaller units, less ocean view condos and they still costs as many StarOptions as Lagunamar. This is the reason why I thought Marriott may want to sell Westin Cancun, I would be counter productive IMO to brag about their newly acquired Mexican resorts and not offer their owners the best possible experience in Mexico.


----------



## jabberwocky (Sep 13, 2020)

Ok, unless I hear otherwise, I will leave the Cancun location out of Flex. I want the FAQ to be as factual as possible, and as of today WRSC (not sure what acronym we should use) is not listed by Vistana as being a Aventuras resort.

Are there any questions that I have missed?  I did go through some of the old threads to try and find some new topics that weren’t in the previous FAQ. I did manage to find a few.  But I am open to suggestions for additional ones.


----------



## blondietink (Sep 13, 2020)

For example, a Westin Flex ownership that was purchased from the developer can book at the eight resorts within the trust starting at 12 months. If made within eight months, the reservation would be a StarOptions reservation and could be made at any of the 24 Vistana resorts.

In contrast, the Westin Flex owner who purchased resale could only book at the eight resorts within the Westin Flex trust and would not be able to book at the 16 resorts outside of Westin Flex with StarOptions. 

*Shouldn't the first paragraph read Sheraton Flex??*


----------



## CPNY (Sep 13, 2020)

DannyTS said:


> This may be true in some cases. I am pretty sure Lagunamar would be one of the favorite MVC resorts for those that live on the East Coast once it becomes part of the combined system. The pools, the locations, the views, the color of the ocean are all very hard to beat. It also offers more bang for the buck because there are many high end restaurants in proximity that are significantly cheaper than in the US. The day trips to Chichen Itza, Tulum etc are also very interesting and I think other Caribbean destinations do not necessarily offer such an interesting mix of culture, food and beach vacations. Given all that, I am not too interested in going to the other MVC Carribean resorts. We would like to visit Aruba but every time I read about how busy the two resorts are, my enthusiasm pales especially knowing the great experiences I have had at Lagunamar.
> 
> Since I am concerned about the availability once the integration is complete (especially on SO), I am happy if MVC would see more Westin Cancun inventory  rather than Lagunamar. I am not sure that would satisfy the Marriott owners, Westin Cancun has small pools, a so so location, smaller units, less ocean view condos and they still costs as many StarOptions as Lagunamar. This is the reason why I thought Marriott may want to sell Westin Cancun, I would be counter productive IMO to brag about their newly acquired Mexican resorts and not offer their owners the best possible experience in Mexico.


Westin resort may be inferior and may not satisfy the “Marriott snob” but having it will offer more availability in Mexico. The demand is going to be high in Mexico since it’s a location MVC owners never had. I can also see Marriott putting more inventory into a combined program to dilute the VSN and offer more to DC owners.


----------



## CPNY (Sep 13, 2020)

jabberwocky said:


> Hey, just change the name on the outside of the building, change some of the decor and a bit of furniture, jack up the price by 30% and everyone is happy.


Don’t even have to change the name. Just Turn the W upside down and you have your M lol.


----------



## jabberwocky (Sep 13, 2020)

blondietink said:


> For example, a Westin Flex ownership that was purchased from the developer can book at the eight resorts within the trust starting at 12 months. If made within eight months, the reservation would be a StarOptions reservation and could be made at any of the 24 Vistana resorts.
> 
> In contrast, the Westin Flex owner who purchased resale could only book at the eight resorts within the Westin Flex trust and would not be able to book at the 16 resorts outside of Westin Flex with StarOptions.
> 
> *Shouldn't the first paragraph read Sheraton Flex??*


I was just using Westin Flex as an example.  Sheraton Flex has 9 resorts vs. the 8 in Westin Flex.


----------



## jabberwocky (Sep 13, 2020)

DannyTS said:


> This may be true in some cases. I am pretty sure Lagunamar would be one of the favorite MVC resorts for those that live on the East Coast once it becomes part of the combined system. The pools, the locations, the views, the color of the ocean are all very hard to beat. It also offers more bang for the buck because there are many high end restaurants in proximity that are significantly cheaper than in the US. The day trips to Chichen Itza, Tulum etc are also very interesting and I think other Caribbean destinations do not necessarily offer such an interesting mix of culture, food and beach vacations. Given all that, I am not too interested in going to the other MVC Carribean resorts. We would like to visit Aruba but every time I read about how busy the two resorts are, my enthusiasm pales especially knowing the great experiences I have had at Lagunamar.
> 
> Since I am concerned about the availability once the integration is complete (especially on SO), I am happy if MVC would see more Westin Cancun inventory  rather than Lagunamar. I am not sure that would satisfy the Marriott owners, Westin Cancun has small pools, a so so location, smaller units, less ocean view condos and they still costs as many StarOptions as Lagunamar. This is the reason why I thought Marriott may want to sell Westin Cancun, I would be counter productive IMO to brag about their newly acquired Mexican resorts and not offer their owners the best possible experience in Mexico.


I agree that Lagunamar would be a fantastic addition to the MVC lineup. We haven't been yet, but will be going towards the end of March for nine days and we're excited to go (just booked our Aeroplan tickets).

Availability should still be good for Lagunamar owners and those with SO. Complete integration will take a long time to implement. Marriott doesn't seem to like to buy on the open market and there is no ROFR. The only way to get more deeds into the MVC system would be to get them via deedbacks, or those turning in deeds to buy Flex or MVC. 

For existing owners who want to stay at WLR, other than having a broader set of resorts to visit, I can't see why you would switch over to MVC.  If we use Aruba as an example comparator, a 2BR OV spring break week would be around $2800 in MF.  That compares with the current WLR MF of $1400 or even $2200 to book via Aventuras.


----------



## remowidget (Sep 13, 2020)

Ckhawaii said:


> From what we were told at our update at WLR in February is that they were in the process of adding the Westin Cancun in the Aventuras Trust. This was a few weeks before the world went crazy. Since I told them that I preferred Lagunamar  WAY over the hotel seconds prior, I don’t see a reason why they would lie about that.


Sometimes I'm amazed at what they lie about.


----------



## remowidget (Sep 13, 2020)

dioxide45 said:


> It would be good to convert it over to a Marriott then Marriott will have access to Cancun and they won't be itching to stay at Lagunamar...



Maybe, but I doubt the demand will ever be as high as Lagunamar. Lagunamar is in an awesome location. The Westin Cancun is way away from everything. That isn't always a bad thing, but if you want to go shopping, to restaurants, or grocery stores it is remote in comparison.


----------



## CPNY (Sep 13, 2020)

jabberwocky said:


> I agree that Lagunamar would be a fantastic addition to the MVC lineup. We haven't been yet, but will be going towards the end of March for nine days and we're excited to go (just booked our Aeroplan tickets).
> 
> Availability should still be good for Lagunamar owners and those with SO. Complete integration will take a long time to implement. Marriott doesn't seem to like to buy on the open market and there is no ROFR. The only way to get more deeds into the MVC system would be to get them via deedbacks, or those turning in deeds to buy Flex or MVC.
> 
> For existing owners who want to stay at WLR, other than having a broader set of resorts to visit, I can't see why you would switch over to MVC.  If we use Aruba as an example comparator, a 2BR OV spring break week would be around $2800 in MF.  That compares with the current WLR MF of $1400 or even $2200 to book via Aventuras.


Spring break in Aruba.... I can only imagine how packed that beach and pool is.


----------



## daviator (Sep 13, 2020)

remowidget said:


> Maybe, but I doubt the demand will ever be as high as Lagunamar. Lagunamar is in an awesome location. The Westin Cancun is way away from everything. That isn't always a bad thing, but if you want to go shopping, to restaurants, or grocery stores it is remote in comparison.



Agree completely. The only thing that the Westin is closer to is the airport and the far-off theme park and historical sites.  But if you like to get off the tourist island and go into Cancun for decent restaurants that are less tourist-trappy, the Lagunamar is something like 20 minutes closer, each way.

I was happy to see Westin Cancun come into the Vistana network, just because more choices are always nice, but I don’t think I’d ever choose to stay there, I’ve never had trouble booking into Lagunamar with StarOptions.


----------



## DTD1990 (Sep 14, 2020)

I didn't think the Avon, Colorado Sheraton's (Lakeside or Mountain Villas) were part of Sheraton Flex?  At least they weren't when I purchased Sheraton Flex - was this changed?


----------



## jabberwocky (Sep 14, 2020)

DTD1990 said:


> I didn't think the Avon, Colorado Sheraton's (Lakeside or Mountain Villas) were part of Sheraton Flex?  At least they weren't when I purchased Sheraton Flex - was this changed?


None of the Colorado resorts were originally included. Steamboat was added in in 2016 or 2017. The Avon resorts have been part of it since 2018 or 2019 - my memory is a little fuzzy so maybe someone can chime in on the dates.


----------



## controller1 (Sep 14, 2020)

jabberwocky said:


> None of the Colorado resorts were originally included. Steamboat was added in in 2016 or 2017. The Avon resorts have been part of it since 2018 or 2019 - my memory is a little fuzzy so maybe someone can chime in on the dates.



The Avon resorts were added in 2018 with Home Resort reservations beginning in 2019.  Two Resorts added to Sheraton Flex


----------



## jabberwocky (Sep 15, 2020)

So I'm hoping an Aventuras owner can help us out (PM me if you don't want to post publicly).  From the marketing materials sent our, WRS Cancun is supposed to be in Aventuras; however, the official Vistana website does not list it as being included in the Aventuras Flex collection.

Can an owner please log in and try making a dummy reservation for this resort and let us know if it can be booked with Home Resort privileges (not SO)?

Thanks in advance.


----------



## Ckhawaii (Sep 15, 2020)

We also need to come up with a cool acronym for the Westin Cancun. WCV is already in use...


----------



## jmhpsu93 (Sep 15, 2020)

Ckhawaii said:


> From what we were told at our update at WLR in February is that they were in the process of adding the Westin Cancun in the Aventuras Trust. This was a few weeks before the world went crazy. Since I told them that I preferred Lagunamar  WAY over the hotel seconds prior, I don’t see a reason why they would lie about that.


For what it's worth, the retofit at Westin Cancun is really well done, at least in the phase we saw on our tour there.  None of the efficiency kitchen garbage you often see in hotel conversions - they had full stoves and refrigerators.  This was two years ago, so none of what they were selling made any sense to us at the time as we had just bought into MVC.


----------



## jabberwocky (Sep 15, 2020)

Ckhawaii said:


> We also need to come up with a cool acronym for the Westin Cancun. WCV is already in use...


WCV?  I’m not familiar with that one. Care to clear it up for me?


----------



## dioxide45 (Sep 15, 2020)

Ckhawaii said:


> We also need to come up with a cool acronym for the Westin Cancun. WCV is already in use...


WCU is the resort code in the II directory.


----------



## Ckhawaii (Sep 15, 2020)

jabberwocky said:


> WCV?  I’m not familiar with that one. Care to clear it up for me?



westin coral vista?


----------



## Eric B (Sep 16, 2020)

Wolf Creek Village in Utah


----------



## cubigbird (Dec 19, 2020)

Ckhawaii said:


> From what we were told at our update at WLR in February is that they were in the process of adding the Westin Cancun in the Aventuras Trust. This was a few weeks before the world went crazy. Since I told them that I preferred Lagunamar  WAY over the hotel seconds prior, I don’t see a reason why they would lie about that.



FWIW I confirmed that Westin Cancun (not Lagunamar, but the other Westin) is currently NOT in the Aventuras trust.  Westin Cancun is bookable at 8 months out with SO, but not currently available at 12 months out for Aventuras.  It was stated it is still the goal to add it to the trust eventually but only when the remainder of the hotel conversion to villas is completed.  Currently in 2020 only Westin Lagunamar and Westin Los Cabos are in Aventuras.  There is also no ETA for PV.


----------



## controller1 (Dec 19, 2020)

cubigbird said:


> FWIW I confirmed that Westin Cancun (not Lagunamar, but the other Westin) is currently NOT in the Aventuras trust.  Westin Cancun is bookable at 8 months out with SO, but not currently available at 12 months out for Aventuras.  It was stated it is still the goal to add it to the trust eventually but only when the remainder of the hotel conversion to villas is completed.  Currently in 2020 only Westin Lagunamar and Westin Los Cabos are in Aventuras.  There is also no ETA for PV.



It appears there may be some risk to ever getting Puerto Vallarta into the Vistana portfolio. The Marriott Vacations Worldwide CFO recently made a presentation indicating they were looking to divest themselves of hotels acquired during the ILG acquisition and PV was mentioned.  See beginning with Post #7 of this thread: NEW Info on Marriott/Westin/Sheraton Consolidated Product


----------



## jabberwocky (Dec 27, 2020)

DeniseM said:


> Thank you, jabberwocky!  Well done!  Let's leave it hear for a few days for discussion/input, and then I will move it to the sticky.


Hi @DeniseM ,

I think this has percolated long enough and the outstanding questions seem to have been resolved. Any chance we can add this as a sticky?


----------



## DeniseM (Dec 27, 2020)

It should already be a sticky. - 2nd pink box from the bottom, at the top of the page.


----------



## jabberwocky (Dec 27, 2020)

DeniseM said:


> It should already be a sticky. - 2nd pink box from the bottom, at the top of the page.


There is a sticky there, but it goes to the older original FAQ (unless I am looking in the wrong location).


----------



## DeniseM (Dec 27, 2020)

Should be updated now


----------



## itkwon (Jun 6, 2022)

jabberwocky said:


> It may be plausible that they may want to convert the Resort and Spa Cancun to a MVC resort rather than have it go into Westin Flex. IIRC, MVC doesn't have much (if any) Mexico exposure.  Whether this is through a common currency or placing the resort directly into the DP program, I'm not sure.
> 
> Edited to add: The thing to remember about the Flex resorts is that the trustees can add and remove inventory from the trust at will.


What does the DP stand for? Is it Deeded Points?


----------



## dioxide45 (Jun 6, 2022)

itkwon said:


> What does the DP stand for? Is it Deeded Points?


DP in this context would be referring to the Marriott Vacation Club Destinations Points program.


----------



## Myrddin12 (Jun 8, 2022)

Great info here - thank you!  One question that I haven't been able to find a clear answer to - you indicate that smaller flex ownerships can be combined as HomeOptions for a single reservation. Does the same work for banked points?  Hoping to stay at one of the Hawaii resorts but banked to be able to combine for a larger room as our two boys are old enough now that we really need a 2BR.  Thanks,.


----------



## dioxide45 (Jun 8, 2022)

Myrddin12 said:


> Great info here - thank you!  One question that I haven't been able to find a clear answer to - you indicate that smaller flex ownerships can be combined as HomeOptions for a single reservation. Does the same work for banked points?  Hoping to stay at one of the Hawaii resorts but banked to be able to combine for a larger room as our two boys are old enough now that we really need a 2BR.  Thanks,.


HomeOptions purchased direct from the Vistana (or re-qualified) could be used with banked points for a single reservation made 8 months or less from check in. In essence you are just combining StarOptions to get the reservation. You can't use Home Options from 12-8 months with banked points (StarOptions) to make a single reservation as StarOptions can only be used for reservations inside 8 months of checkin.


----------



## sponger76 (Sep 17, 2022)

I'm just amazed at how much more expensive Westin Flex is than Sheraton Flex, looking at resale prices on Redweek. Is it because the Westin resorts are that much more desirable to book using HomeOptions? As it is, the MFs are higher, correct?


----------



## dioxide45 (Sep 17, 2022)

sponger76 said:


> I'm just amazed at how much more expensive Westin Flex is than Sheraton Flex, looking at resale prices on Redweek. Is it because the Westin resorts are that much more desirable to book using HomeOptions? As it is, the MFs are higher, correct?


Westin Flex includes Maui, Sheraton Flex doesn't. That is probably a big reason behind it. Westin Flex is also newer with fewer resale contracts out there while Sheraton Flex floods the resale market. Supply and demand.


----------



## jabberwocky (Sep 17, 2022)

I tend to view WFlex as a kind of “super StarOption”. Mandatory properties have tended to hold their value well since they allowed you to book using SO into a broad range of properties - with the Hawaii properties probably being the most sought after.

WFlex gets you most of those desirable properties, but with the bonus of being able to book at 12 months versus 8. SFlex really only has some Colorado and Kauai availability that would be harder to get with SO and might be highly  sought after.


----------



## kozykritter (Sep 18, 2022)

jabberwocky said:


> I tend to view WFlex as a kind of “super StarOption”. Mandatory properties have tended to hold their value well since they allowed you to book using SO into a broad range of properties - with the Hawaii properties probably being the most sought after.
> 
> WFlex gets you most of those desirable properties, but with the bonus of being able to book at 12 months versus 8. SFlex really only has some Colorado and Kauai availability that would be harder to get with SO and might be highly  sought after.


I see it differently than your assessment as I have never had a problem booking Maui or desert properties at 8 months out. Westin Flex to me is more limited as it only gives priority to those two destinations (Westin Riverfront has barely any weeks in Flex and almost all of them are mud season). If those are the two places you always go to, it's probably a great choice to get priority if you need it, depending upon how many weeks are actually in Flex...not any OF, from what I recall on here. Sheraton Flex gets you priority for Hawaii, the desert, Colorado plus Florida and South Carolina, and for me personally I like the variety of priority locations should I wish to book during that period to ensure an earlier time stamp and better room location. Sheraton Steamboat is nearly all in Flex so if you want high demand ski weeks that's the way to go. To each their own, of course


----------



## Mowogo (Sep 18, 2022)

kozykritter said:


> I see it differently than your assessment as I have never had a problem booking Maui or desert properties at 8 months out. Westin Flex to me is more limited as it only gives priority to those two destinations (Westin Riverfront has barely any weeks in Flex and almost all of them are mud season). If those are the two places you always go to, it's probably a great choice to get priority if you need it, depending upon how many weeks are actually in Flex...not any OF, from what I recall on here. Sheraton Flex gets you priority for Hawaii, the desert, Colorado plus Florida and South Carolina, and for me personally I like the variety of priority locations should I wish to book during that period to ensure an earlier time stamp and better room location. Sheraton Steamboat is nearly all in Flex so if you want high demand ski weeks that's the way to go. To each their own, of course


I can confirm quality of weeks in Sheraton Flex.  Christmas this past year was family booking Sheraton Steamboat and able to get a two bedroom including Christmas Day.  The catch is that the only truly desirable properties are Hawaii and Steamboat with the rest being in overdeveloped regions with regular cash sales on stays.


----------



## rcv82 (Sep 18, 2022)

Mowogo said:


> I can confirm quality of weeks in Sheraton Flex. Christmas this past year was family booking Sheraton Steamboat and able to get a two bedroom including Christmas Day. The catch is that the only truly desirable properties are Hawaii and Steamboat with the rest being in overdeveloped regions with regular cash sales on stays.



While not slope-side like Steamboat and the Westin Riverfront is better(but extremely hard to get into in ski season), the Sheraton Mountain Vista is a good option for skiing Beaver Creek (and Vail with a drive). And the cash rate in the area is very high, making a good case for owning if you ski there often. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## SteveS1 (Sep 19, 2022)

Additionally Lakeside Terrace in Sheraton Flex has nice large two bedrooms, its directly across from Mountain Vista , on the Avon Skier shuttle route or a 10 minute walk to the Westin gondola. 

I'll throw in Vistana Beach club in Jensen Beach (next to Port St. Lucie), its also in Sheraton Flex. A nice small complex with all units ocean view right on the beach. Its also like the Arizona properties , a popular spring training spot.


----------



## Huskerpaul (Sep 19, 2022)

Do I understand correctly that if you buy Sheraton or Westin Flex points on the resale market you cannot bank unused points into the next year?  Do they allow you to borrow points from the future year?

I like the area the Sheraton Kauai resort is located.  Is this a very difficult resort to book with Sheraton Flex points?


----------



## jabberwocky (Sep 19, 2022)

Huskerpaul said:


> Do I understand correctly that if you buy Sheraton or Westin Flex points on the resale market you cannot bank unused points into the next year?  Do they allow you to borrow points from the future year?
> 
> I like the area the Sheraton Kauai resort is located.  Is this a very difficult resort to book with Sheraton Flex points?


As per the FAQ you cannot bank or borrow Flex HomeOptions.  Only Staroptions can be banked or borrowed - resale Flex does not come with SO. You can use II to deposit your Flex for another year.

Someone who owns SFlex can answer the Kauai question.


----------



## SteveS1 (Sep 19, 2022)

Huskerpaul said:


> I like the area the Sheraton Kauai resort is located.  Is this a very difficult resort to book with Sheraton Flex points?



It’s not difficult. I reserved Sheraton Kauai with Sflex for first week in Dec in the 8–12 window with no problem. I just checked and it’s not available now. I checked a few random dates for March/April/May and some were available.


----------



## dioxide45 (Sep 19, 2022)

100% of Kauai is in Flex.


----------



## controller1 (Sep 20, 2022)

Sheraton Kauai is not difficult to book with Sheraton Flex. However, you will be booking into a converted hotel property with the smallest villas in the Vistana system. Location (on the island) is great. However, you are across the street from the beach behind the hotel property. IMO the property is only made desirable based on being in Hawaii.


----------



## Mowogo (Sep 20, 2022)

controller1 said:


> Sheraton Kauai is not difficult to book with Sheraton Flex. However, you will be booking into a converted hotel property with the smallest villas in the Vistana system. Location (on the island) is great. However, you are across the street from the beach behind the hotel property. IMO the property is only made desirable based on being in Hawaii.


Which is a reward in of itself, and when you see what people pay for hotel rooms in resorts nearby you become even more impressed with the value even with the drawbacks compared to other resorts.


----------



## mjm1 (Sep 20, 2022)

Huskerpaul said:


> Do I understand correctly that if you buy Sheraton or Westin Flex points on the resale market you cannot bank unused points into the next year?  Do they allow you to borrow points from the future year?
> 
> I like the area the Sheraton Kauai resort is located.  Is this a very difficult resort to book with Sheraton Flex points?



We just reserved 3 nights in May 2023 using StarOptions at the 8-month mark. So, if we had Sheraton-Flex we could have reserved it even earlier.

We have visited both Westin Princeville and the Sheraton in Poipu but never stayed at either. So, we decided to split a week next year and stay in Princeville for 4 nights followed by 3 in Poipu. The units will be very different, but we look forward to experiencing both resorts and not having several long drives to the other side of the island if we only stayed at one of the resorts. It should be an interesting experience.

Best regards.

Mike


----------

