# New Timeshares At Waikoloa



## Rancher (Jan 18, 2018)

Well not new exactly but they have started the conversion of the north tower of the Hilton hotel. While this news had been reported quite a while ago they have now started the work. The person I talked to did not know how many units they would end up with or when the work would be completed but everyone seemed happy that work had begun.

Dennis


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## Helios (Jan 18, 2018)

Cool.  I'll be there in mid July and will report on progress...


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## GregT (Jan 18, 2018)

All,

This is what I believe the points chart will be.  Interesting to see.

I love this property and will be there next month - I will try to set up a tour to figure out pricing and phases. 

Best,

Greg

—————————-

Platinum points (same weeks as current Platinum season)

Studio Standard - 3,400
Studio Premier (Ocean View) -- 9,300

1BR Standard -- 4,800
1BR Plus Standard (Partial OV) - 7,200
1BR Premier Standard (OV) - 9,300

1BR Large -- 7,200
1BR Plus Large (Partial OV) - 9,300
1BR Premier Large (OV) -- 16,800

2BR Standard - 10,500
2BR Premier (Luxury Ocean) - 19,200

2BR Penthouse - 17,500
2BR Penthouse Plus (Partial OV) - 21,000
2BR Penthouse Premier (OV) - 24,000

3BR Plus (Partial OV) -- 23,000
3BR Penthouse Premier (OV) - 28,750


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## linsj (Jan 18, 2018)

GregT said:


> Platinum points (same weeks as current Platinum season)
> 
> Studio Standard - 3,400
> Studio Premier (Ocean View) -- 9,300
> ...



I'm sure the studio and one bedroom won't be the same number of points.


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## GregT (Jan 19, 2018)

linsj said:


> I'm sure the studio and one bedroom won't be the same number of points.



I’ll take the bet if you’re offering....


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## Ralph Sir Edward (Jan 19, 2018)

Amazing point values, if they work out that way. (Amazingly high...)


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## PamMo (Jan 19, 2018)

!!!!!! Wow, Greg, those are high point values! I sure hope you're wrong.


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## alwysonvac (Jan 19, 2018)

Don’t forget the high point values at the new Grand Islander Tower which opened last year @ HHV.

For the Grand Islander in Platinum Season 

one bedroom ranges from 7,200 Points (resort view) to 16,800 Points (premier)
two bedroom ranges from 8,400 Points (resort view) to 19,200 Points (premier)

Penthouse ranges from 17,500 Points (two bdrm) to 28,750 Points (three bdrm)


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## Mosescan (Jan 22, 2018)

These new point values are the reason that I substantially increased my point holdings this year. I wanted to make sure that I had enough for 2 weeks in a 2 BR during platinum. While that is only 14000 points in the older units, as noted above, it can be substantially higher in the newer units. the advantage is that if you have the points then you can get into the higher point units on much shorter notice, but the downside is that the lower units like Lagoon tower are booked up far out and make it hard to do a short notice trip if you don't have a substantial number of points. We did 2 weeks in the lagoon tower last March break and I booked on 6 weeks notice. Because I only had a 5000 point unit I ended up using all 5000 points and about $1000 cash for 5 open season nights. I think we ended up staying in 4 or 5 different units over the course of two weeks as there was no single block available. Despite the pain in the butt of moving so much, we still enjoyed our 2 weeks at HHV. We'll be at Kingsland in April for the first time so I will be interested to see these new units.


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## CalGalTraveler (Jan 23, 2018)

I am curious about the maintenance fees on these units. If some of the high point units have low MF it might be worth trading up when they go resale and fall back to earth in a few years. 

Even with such a trade, I doubt we would be staying there with such high point requirements. It appears that HGVC is creating points inflation with newer projects.


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## GT75 (Jan 28, 2018)

GregT said:


> I love this property and will be there next month - I will try to set up a tour to figure out pricing and phases.



See if you can also get the initial construction MFs for this property.     I know that it will be initially low (based upon what HGVC has done at other properties during construction) but it will give us an idea.


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## rabmsn (Jan 28, 2018)

Here's a picture from the inside taken yesterday:

 
Lots of walking detours and noise on weekdays.


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## CalGalTraveler (Jan 28, 2018)

alwysonvac said:


> Don’t forget the high point values at the new Grand Islander Tower which opened last year @ HHV.
> 
> For the Grand Islander in Platinum Season
> 
> ...



It would be nice if we could get all the associated maintenance fees with these GI units and eventually Waikoloa so we can compare MF/$ on each type of unit.  I know we have a few data points but not the complete picture.


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## Mosescan (Jan 28, 2018)

CalGalTraveler said:


> It would be nice if we could get all the associated maintenance fees with these GI units and eventually Waikoloa so we can compare MF/$ on each type of unit.  I know we have a few data points but not the complete picture.



For sure. Although Maint fees tend to stay the same across seasons in the same unit type, they are not always the same across room levels. I'm very curious about the maint fees on that 16800 point 1 BR Premiere Luxury at the GI. I'm guessing the sales staff will be pushing the fact that you can get elite status with one purchase. Not worth it at developer prices but may be worth purchasing resale for the maint fee/point ratio.


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## SmithOp (Jan 28, 2018)

We don’t have a data point on maint fees for a hotel conversion.  There isn’t anything for Las Palmeras.  It will be interesting to compare to purpose built timeshare resort.  I’m wondering how they will determine the percentage the new owners will pay because it must be very expensive to run that whole operation with the monorail and boats, all the pools, etc.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro


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## alwysonvac (Jan 29, 2018)

SmithOp said:


> We don’t have a data point on maint fees for a hotel conversion.



Not sure if it helps what you're trying to do but Kalia Tower was a hotel conversion.
It originally opened as a hotel tower at HHV. After the mold issue/lawsuit, they converted several floors to timeshares so now it's a mixed tower.
https://www.bizjournals.com/pacific/stories/2003/09/01/daily5.html

_NOTE: HHV is a mixed use property with timeshare and hotel rooms. _


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## alwysonvac (Jan 29, 2018)

CalGalTraveler said:


> It would be nice if we could get all the associated maintenance fees with these GI units and eventually Waikoloa so we can compare MF/$ on each type of unit.  I know we have a few data points but not the complete picture.



Syed has GI MF posted on his website -  https://advantagevacation.com/hilton-grand-vacations-grand-islander-2017-maintenance-fees/


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## CalGalTraveler (Jan 29, 2018)

Thanks @alwysonvac for finding this GI nugget from Syed. (He's an awesome resource.)

For GI, if all the one bedrooms and two bedroom standards have the same MF for the week regardless of "luxury" or "premier" then a back of the envelope calculation of MF per point yields:

1 Bedroom (standard sizes except Penthouse units, excludes club dues and ARDA)
$1,213 / 16,800 points Luxury Plat = *$ .0722 MF/point*
 $1,213 / 12,600 points OV Premier Plat = *$ .0963 MF/point*​
2 Bedroom (standard sizes except Penthouse units, excludes club dues and ARDA)
$1,615 / 19,200 Luxury Plat =* $ .0841 MF/point*
$1,615/  14,400 Premier Plat = *$ .1122 MF/point*
$1,615/ 12,600 Partial OV Plat =* $ .1282 MF/point*​
The spreadsheet brigade could work out gold season values and other options which may be attractive. Hopefully the resale buy-in price will come down over time so these could be a good option to consolidate.  Might also be worth saving money for the next economic downturn because people will sell these onto the market like hotcakes.


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## Cyberc (Jan 30, 2018)

Hi guys

I’m unsure whether or not these are the ones you are looking for.


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## CalGalTraveler (Jan 30, 2018)

I got a call from HGVC rep about the Ocean Tower being released.  I did not have much time to talk because I have work deadlines. But here is what I picked up:

a) Limited release of 2BDRM Penthouse Partial OV: "pre-construction pricing" $130,000. Rep said it will increase in a few weeks when fully released (but who knows?) MF $1770 or .0843/point for 21,000 points. I don't know how much the MF is subsidized but that's a good ratio.
b) Expected to open in early 2019
c) 1 Bedroom and other OV units not available yet.


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## Ralph Sir Edward (Jan 31, 2018)

Amazing. Consider. . . For $130,000, one could 2 Bay Club Penthouses (after market), and pay the difference in maintenance fees for 60 years or so. . .

(Bay Club is between ocean Tower and Kingsland.)


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## vacationtime1 (Jan 31, 2018)

Ralph Sir Edward said:


> Amazing. Consider. . . For $130,000, one could 2 Bay Club Penthouses (after market), and pay the difference in maintenance fees for 60 years or so. . .
> 
> (Bay Club is between ocean Tower and Kingsland.)



For $130,000, one could invest the money and use the income to rent two bedroom OF units forever.  

And still have the $130,000.


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## Ralph Sir Edward (Jan 31, 2018)

Or more. . .


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## CalGalTraveler (Jan 31, 2018)

vacationtime1 said:


> For $130,000, one could invest the money and use the income to rent two bedroom OF units forever.
> 
> And still have the $130,000.



Great point!  And this was not even an OF unit. When prices get to this kind of level, I start thinking of using such money as a down payment on a small condo which is VRBOed when we don't use it.

However, we own a second home and it is a lot of work, risk, and expense.  Every time we go there all we do is fix things;  renting sounds good because I just want to go on vacation and not worry about it!


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## 1Kflyerguy (Jan 31, 2018)

Yes, too rich a price for a timeshare for me.  I love the Waikaloa area,  and even though about buying a condo there.  But like CalGal said, lots of upkeep and hassles renting it out long distance.


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## vacationbear (Feb 1, 2018)

vacationtime1 said:


> For $130,000, one could invest the money and use the income to rent two bedroom OF units forever.
> 
> And still have the $130,000.


My kind of math!

130k into a Muni bond fund would distribute 6.5k per year, mostly tax free.
6.5k should buy one week in a very nice ... what? 
Any guesses on the open season rates for a Penthouse with OV?


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## rabmsn (Feb 2, 2018)

Or, just using some random dates, two [2] full weeks at King's Land in a two bedroom deluxe unit (booked at Hilton.com with the senior rate option) cost just less than $5,000:


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## jehb2 (Feb 2, 2018)

Bummer. It looks like my jogging path will still be blocked when we visit.


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## Harry (Feb 17, 2018)

We are here. Any questions I should ask?  Greg, any chance you are here this year?

Harry


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## GregT (Feb 18, 2018)

Harry said:


> We are here. Any questions I should ask?  Greg, any chance you are here this year?
> 
> Harry


Yes!  We arrived yesterday -- I will send you a PM and would love to get together for a drink!  Thanks for thinking of me.

Best,

Greg


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## CanuckTravlr (Feb 19, 2018)

Harry said:


> We are here. Any questions I should ask?  Greg, any chance you are here this year?
> 
> Harry





GregT said:


> Yes!  We arrived yesterday -- I will send you a PM and would love to get together for a drink!  Thanks for thinking of me.
> 
> Best,
> 
> Greg



Hi Harry and Greg,

Sorry Karen and I won't be there this year.  We loved our two weeks at KL last year.  It was fun meeting you both, chatting and sharing a drink.  Wish we could do it again this year, but Hawaii is too far to travel for us every year.  If we lived in Vancouver it would definitely be our go-to place for sun and relaxation in the winter. Hope to get back in a couple of years.  Hope you both enjoy your stays again.  Aloha!

Bob


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## DazedandConfused (Feb 19, 2018)

Anyone besides me getting sick of HGVC Big Island of Hawaii and really want Maui or Kaui locations?


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## GregT (Feb 19, 2018)

DazedandConfused said:


> Anyone besides me getting sick of HGVC Big Island of Hawaii and really want Maui or Kaui locations?



It is unfortunate that HGVC Maui doesn't look like its getting traction.   

I do think that Direct Exchanges with a Starwood owner would open up both of those islands to the HGVC owner, and benefit Starwood owners who can't get to the Big Island.  I've done a couple of exchanges with Marriott owners to get them to the Big Island, before Marriott opened up its Waikoloa property (which is inferior, IMO, to what Hilton offers).

It's a first world problem, to be sure.

Best,

Greg


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## Mosescan (Feb 19, 2018)

CanuckTravlr said:


> Hi Harry and Greg,
> 
> Sorry Karen and I won't be there this year.  We loved our two weeks at KL last year.  It was fun meeting you both, chatting and sharing a drink.  Wish we could do it again this year, but Hawaii is too far to travel for us every year.  If we lived in Vancouver it would definitely be our go-to place for sun and relaxation in the winter. Hope to get back in a couple of years.  Hope you both enjoy your stays again.  Aloha!
> 
> Bob


Hawaii is my snowbird retirement plan. Florida is too cold. When I retire and the kids are old enough I plan on spending winters in Hawaii! And summer in a cottage up north somewhere.


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## HGVC Lover (Feb 21, 2018)

DazedandConfused said:


> Anyone besides me getting sick of HGVC Big Island of Hawaii and really want Maui or Kaui locations?



I know people in Hell want ice cream too but I doubt that is likely to happen......


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## GregT (Feb 21, 2018)

CanuckTravlr said:


> Hi Harry and Greg,
> 
> Sorry Karen and I won't be there this year.  We loved our two weeks at KL last year.  It was fun meeting you both, chatting and sharing a drink.  Wish we could do it again this year, but Hawaii is too far to travel for us every year.  If we lived in Vancouver it would definitely be our go-to place for sun and relaxation in the winter. Hope to get back in a couple of years.  Hope you both enjoy your stays again.  Aloha!
> 
> Bob


Bob,

It was a pleasure to meet you last year as well - Harry and I met up yesterday for a cocktail and it was good to see him again, and to meet his wife Peggy. 

I hope we are all back in Hawaii again soon!

Best,

Greg


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## junk (Feb 23, 2018)

GregT said:


> All,
> 
> This is what I believe the points chart will be.  Interesting to see.
> 
> ...




2,400/$18,990/Studio(STD)/Resort/$902.10
9,300/$59,990/Studio(STX)/OV/$902.10
4,800/$35,990/1BR(DR1)/Resort/$1,174.92
7,200/$46,990/1BR Plus(DR1)/POV/$1,174.92
9,300/$61,990/1BR Premier(DX1)/OV/$1,174.92
7,200/$45,990/1BR/Resort(1BR)/$1,332.38
9,300/$59,990/1BR Plus(1BP)/POV/$1,332.38
16,800/$99,990/1BR Premier(1BX)/OV/$1,332.38.   $0.079/pts.
10,500/$64,990/2BR(2BR)/Resort/$1,690.51
19,200/$124,990/2BR Premier(2LX)/Lux OV/$1,690.51
17,500/$109,990/2BR(2PH)/Resort/$1,690.51
21,000/$129,990/2BR Plus(2PP)/POV/$1,690.51
24,000/$152,990/2BR Premier(2PX)/OV/$1,690.51
23,000/$144,990/3BR Plus(3BP)/POV/$2,477.12
28,750/$179,990/3BR Premier (3PX)/OV/$2,477.12

180K for a week!


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## CalGalTraveler (Feb 23, 2018)

junk said:


> 2,400/$18,990/Studio(STD)/Resort/$902.10
> 9,300/$59,990/Studio(STX)/OV/$902.10
> 4,800/$35,990/1BR(DR1)/Resort/$1,174.92
> 7,200/$46,990/1BR Plus(DR1)/POV/$1,174.92
> ...




Thanks for sharing @junk.  The point to maintenance fee ratios are excellent, however the developer prices scare me - especially to get a partial Ocean View or Front.  Hard to justify when comparing to resale Westin Kaanapali and Marriott Ocean Club Tower OF which are laid out better as purpose built timeshares - the circular building is awkward and the kitchens don't seem to have islands or peninsulas.

However, I look forward to future resale opportunities for those points...


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## GT75 (Feb 23, 2018)

@junk, Do the listed MFs for Walkoloa include both normal RE and HI RE taxes?


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## GregT (Feb 24, 2018)

All,

Harry and I were able to tour the model unit yesterday.  The unit is stunning and this is going to be a spectacular property.   This is a very well done hotel conversion and the quality of the amenities are impressive.   The only knock that I have on the property itself is the walk from the lobby is about 10 minutes, and otherwise you are dependent on the boat/train to get you there.

And I believe the views will be terrific from almost all rooms.  As others have noted, this is a high point property and their higher floors are more luxurious (better views and higher-end in unit amenities).   I took a few pictures that I will post, but that was never a strength of mine, so wish me luck here.

I stayed in Ocean Tower in 2009 when Jonell and I came and we loved it -- I'm very pleased to see a high quality addition here.   This is more in line with the Grand Islander touch-and-feel, very high end.  A beautiful property.

Best,

Greg


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## GregT (Feb 24, 2018)

This is the kitchen and living room for non-Studio configurations -- the standard 1BR, premium 1BR, 2BR and 3BR units.











This is the Master Bedroom in the 2BR unint, or is the only bedroom in the larger 1BR configuration (and it has an exterior balcony)






This is the second bedroom in a 2BR unit, or is also the only bedroom in the smaller 1BR configuration -- no balcony.






This is the Studio unit -- or the 3BR in the 3BR unit configuration.  The Studio was very impressive.


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## mjm1 (Feb 24, 2018)

Greg, thanks for sharing the pictures. Very nice indeed. I am curious how they were able to put a full kitchen in. We haven’t seen that in any of the Marriott hotel conversions where they say they can’t do it due to code. Any idea how HGVC was able to do it?

Best regards.

Mike


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## linsj (Feb 24, 2018)

Greg, does the studio have a kitchen sink? That's my one gripe with the Kalia studios at HHV, although the ocean view makes up for it.


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## junk (Feb 24, 2018)

GT75 said:


> @junk, Do the listed MFs for Walkoloa include both normal RE and HI RE taxes?


 Yes


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## dougp26364 (Feb 24, 2018)

DazedandConfused said:


> Anyone besides me getting sick of HGVC Big Island of Hawaii and really want Maui or Kaui locations?



Yes......and it's one of the reasons we own more with Marriott than we do with HGVC. I do like the variety of choices on the Big Island and, if/when we return to the Big Island, we'll be more likely to use our HGVC ownership as Marriott's offering is a bit on the pricey side in terms of points required for the unit my wife would want me to book. 

If HGVC had a better presence on all the islands in Hawaii, we might have been tempted to increase our HGVC ownership. As it is it's to little to late and we're to old to go chasing anymore timeshares or elite status. Unless, of course, we should win the jackpot in the Megamillions lottery of course. But one has to actually play the lottery in order to win don't they?


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## dougp26364 (Feb 24, 2018)

GregT, thanks for the photo's. It looks to be a very nice resort with great views and a good location. I'm relatively certain the points required are going to be more than we're willing to part with to stay on the Big Island but, one never knows.


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## JIMinNC (Feb 24, 2018)

Yes, the points required are high, and I doubt I could ever justify the points required for a 2BR - it would take over two years worth of our points - but if it were just my wife and I traveling, I might be tempted by the 1BR units, at least occasionally. The views would be unmatched on the Big Island and we love resorts like this with timeshare units but hotel amenities. We're planning week on the Big Island for March 2019 to go with a week on Kauai that we just booked and a week on Maui we hope to book this coming week. But we're hoping to use some leftover RCI TPUs to snag one of the bulk Kings Land or Kohala Suites deposits (hopefully they will be forthcoming in the next few weeks) instead of using our new HGVC points this time. Maybe we'll try Ocean Tower when we return in 2021.

What I'm amazed by are the low maintenance fees on these units. I'm assuming there are significant subsidies from HGVC and they may rise over time as the property gets sold out. Is that typical for new HGVC properties? We're new to the program and don't have any history with MF increases at new resorts.


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## junk (Feb 25, 2018)

CalGalTraveler said:


> Thanks for sharing @junk.  The point to maintenance fee ratios are excellent, however the developer prices scare me - especially to get a partial Ocean View or Front.  Hard to justify when comparing to resale Westin Kaanapali and Marriott Ocean Club Tower OF which are laid out better as purpose built timeshares - the circular building is awkward and the kitchens don't seem to have islands or peninsulas.
> 
> However, I look forward to future resale opportunities for those points...



I'm also curious how resale price will be settled as well as Grand Isalander.


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## Ralph Sir Edward (Feb 25, 2018)

Mosescan said:


> Hawaii is my snowbird retirement plan. Florida is too cold. When I retire and the kids are old enough I plan on spending winters in Hawaii! And summer in a cottage up north somewhere.


Here, Here! I have similar plans. . .


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## Helios (Feb 25, 2018)

I think those dev prices are insane...Will have to pick more points to get to the 3PX OV...


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## ConejoRed (Feb 25, 2018)

This may be in a different post (did not see it in this one) but has anyone heard/confirmed that this will be part of the normal HGVC with the same 9 month Club booking window or could they make this property part of the “Hilton Club” which some of the new properties are coming online as and therefore have a much more resricted booking window for normal HGVC owners?  Given the location, it would be very hard to arrange airfare within a 45 day window so I am thinking probably not, but I could see them apply the 6 month window similar to GI and BW to these units which would be a bit more workable given that you have to fly to get there (i.e. no option to “drive” at 45 days out etc.).


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