# No More Disney "By-Pass for Disable" Line [merged]



## vacationhopeful (Sep 24, 2013)

Well the abuse of this line now has Disney revising it way to grant access to attractions. The newscaster said it was due to the abuse of HIRING a handicap person to avoid lines.

A system similar to FASTPASS will be offered (actually it may be FASTPASS) - it was described as getting a "ticket" to come back at a certain time for the attraction access.


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## DaveNV (Sep 24, 2013)

Seems only fair. Disney lines are a hassle, but abusing the privilege is worse.

Dave


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## Luanne (Sep 24, 2013)

That's too bad for the folks who truly need it.  One of the best Disney visits we had was after my younger dd had hip surgery. We rented a motor scooter for her and also used crutches.  We did see some abuse of the system though.


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## presley (Sep 24, 2013)

For some of these kids, going to Disney is a once in a lifetime thing.  They don't have the physical strength to be in the park all day.  This really sucks.


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## mspeggysue911 (Sep 24, 2013)

The problem is the GAC card was never meant to be a front of the line pass but for years it has been handled as just an unlimited fastpass. And these ppl have gotten use to not having to wait in line at Disney.

Ppl have known about this perk for years and fake illness and disability to get a pass. I know of ppl who pretend their kid is autistic to get the pass.

The sheer number of ppl now using it and overwhelming the fastpass line has gotten out of hand.

Disney has had to change this system. For years all the ppl who got the GAc cards always swore up and down that it didn't really save you any times in the lines and did not act as a front of the line pass. But we all know it did.

Well now the new system is going to cause them to have to wait like everybody else. However they get a return time and can go wait where ever they like or ride other rides in the meantime.

They will actually be able to use the DAS fastpass as well as pull a regular fastpass. So they still get an added benefit that able bodied ppl can't get.

But the ppl who are use to getting special treatment and front of the line access are enraged over this. They have gone to change.org and created petitions for everybody to sign to try to convince Disney to not take away their front of the line pass.

Things are changing and ppl are just going to have to get use to the new way of doing things.

All Disney is required to provide is equal access to the rides for ALL GUESTS and that is exactly what they are doing.

The new system goes into effect October 9th.


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## Luanne (Sep 24, 2013)

Interesting. When my dd and I went to Disneyland we didn't need to get any kind of card.  I guess seeing her in a motorized scooter was enough for us to bypass lines.


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## gmarine (Sep 24, 2013)

Unfortunately this change means many disabled children and adults arent going to be able to visit Disney parks.  There definitely was too much abuse of the Guest Assistance Card but the current changes arent the right way to address it. 

The current changes provide a time for disabled people to return to the ride, much like a Fastpass does. The problem I see is that you are only allowed one pass at a time. So for example, if a ride has a 90 minute wait, you will be given a pass to return in 90 minutes. However, for people who cant wait in line due to a disability, they must wait 90 minutes somewhere to get on the ride and are unable to get another pass for a different ride in the meantime.  Imagine a disabled child looking forward to going on a ride only to be told they have to come back in 90 minutes.

Unless you have a disabled child you have no idea what its like. Walk for a day in the shoes of a disabled child or the childs parents and then tell me that getting to go on a ride without a long line is a special perk that disabled children dont deserve.


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## geekette (Sep 24, 2013)

gmarine said:


> Unfortunately this change means many disabled children and adults arent going to be able to visit Disney parks.  There definitely was too much abuse of the Guest Assistance Card but the current changes arent the right way to address it.
> 
> The current changes provide a time for disabled people to return to the ride, much like a Fastpass does. The problem I see is that you are only allowed one pass at a time. So for example, if a ride has a 90 minute wait, you will be given a pass to return in 90 minutes. However, for people who cant wait in line due to a disability, they must wait 90 minutes somewhere to get on the ride and are unable to get another pass for a different ride in the meantime.  Imagine a disabled child looking forward to going on a ride only to be told they have to come back in 90 minutes.
> 
> Unless you have a disabled child you have no idea what its like. Walk for a day in the shoes of a disabled child or the childs parents and then tell me that getting to go on a ride without a long line is a special perk that disabled children dont deserve.



No one here is being mean to disabled children, nor is Disney.  In fact, Dis tried to be compassionate and assist those young kiddies.  But then nasty adults swooped in to bastardize the system to their own benefit, and they are the ones that screwed over the wee ones.

That said, I disagree with:



> Unfortunately this change means many disabled children and adults arent going to be able to visit Disney parks.



Aren't Going To Be Able To Visit?  why is that?  I saw nothing that prevents anyone from visiting Disney.  Sure, if a person is unable to wait in lines, life will be difficult no matter the venue, but Disney can't fix that.

I think I do not understand going to an amusement park but being unable to wait in a line.  There is no fastpass for restrooms or restaurants, is there?  I'm not trying to be snide, I simply do not understand not being able to wait in line, as that is what you say will prevent many disabled children from being able to go to Disney.  You say they will have to wait Somewhere, and I'm not sure on the difference between waiting Somewhere vs In Line?

but, regardless, there are a lot of places on this planet, why be stuck on Disney?  If the park doesn't work for you, find one that does.


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## gmarine (Sep 24, 2013)

geekette said:


> No one here is being mean to disabled children, nor is Disney.  In fact, Dis tried to be compassionate and assist those young kiddies.  But then nasty adults swooped in to bastardize the system to their own benefit, and they are the ones that screwed over the wee ones.
> 
> That said, I disagree with:
> 
> ...




You obviously have no experience with children with autism, or any disability for that matter. 

Many children with autism and other disabilities in that spectrum cant handle waiting in long lines. Many children with diabilities also cant handle long hours in the parks. The Guest Assistance Card allowed disabled children to get on some rides quickly and end their day in the park quickly. For these reasons some wont wont be able to visit Disney parks. I know of several people who have already canceled Disney vacations because of this change. For my family, well we are on the fence for our trip next year, however, its likely that we will have to cancel as well.

And not to sound mean, but before you post, maybe just maybe, have some knowledge of what you are talking about, especially if your talking about disabled children.


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## dannybaker (Sep 24, 2013)

*Good for Disney*

I for one am glad that Disney is taking steps to keep disabled people away from the parks. I am sure this will cut down on the wait time for the non disabled people. They should also ban those pain in the butt wheel chairs. They are always in the way, I just hate when the disabled people are able to get one over on me. I don't care if the child has autism, or if the disabled vet without legs has to wait. I am sure everyone with that pass is cheating the system, I mean the person doesn't look disabled to me, and that is all that matters. So because a couple people cheat the system all should pay, hell maybe they should charge them extra for being a pain to everyone, so know instead of waiting 90 minutes I will only wait 89 minutes 30 seconds. We should also take those parking spots from the handicap people also. I am sure their life is a little to easy with all those perks.


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## DeniseM (Sep 24, 2013)

dannybaker said:


> I for one am glad that Disney is taking steps to keep disabled people away from the parks. I am sure this will cut down on the wait time for the non disabled people. They should also ban those pain in the butt wheel chairs. They are always in the way, I just hate when the disabled people are able to get one over on me. I don't care if the child has autism, or if the disabled vet without legs has to wait. I am sure everyone with that pass is cheating the system, I mean the person doesn't look disabled to me, and that is all that matters. So because a couple people cheat the system all should pay, hell maybe they should charge them extra for being a pain to everyone, so know instead of waiting 90 minutes I will only wait 89 minutes 30 seconds. We should also take those parking spots from the handicap people also. I am sure their life is a little to easy with all those perks.



I am going to assume that this is sarcasm...


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## LAX Mom (Sep 24, 2013)

DeniseM said:


> I am going to assume that this is sarcasm...



I certainly hope you're right!


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## rickandcindy23 (Sep 24, 2013)

I assumed so too.  

I for one never mind waiting for kids and adults with any kind of special needs.  I don't care if they go ahead of me.  These parents and the adults and children with special needs have a burden, and Disney should re-think this decision.  

It cannot have been many people abusing it.  So what if 1 in 1,000 abuse it.  It's for the ones who need it, and I feel for those who will have a burden because of the few who ruin it for the many.  I am very sad to hear this.


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## hypnotiq (Sep 24, 2013)

This pretty much shows that its sarcasm. 



> so know instead of waiting 90 minutes I will only wait 89 minutes 30 seconds


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## stanleyu (Sep 24, 2013)

If you look through the news reports you will see that disabled persons will NOT have to wait in line. They just can't go to the front of the line. They will be given a coupon, like a fastpass, to come back at a certain time - the approximate time their position would get to the front. That way they can do something else - not in line - until their turn comes up and THEN go to the front.


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## janej (Sep 24, 2013)

I personally found it sad for Disney to take this step.   Can't they just keep disabled people from using the benefit to make a living?   My nephew has autism, and Disney was his favorite place for several years.    He is also allergic to a long list of things, and love to get his own orders at Disney restaurants.   My sister almost always cook and pack for him whenever we go out to eat, she gets up before everyone is awake to get his meals ready when we are on vacation.   But she does not have to at Disney.   We were all very happy that she gets a break from having to cook every day.    Our extended family went to Disney every year for a few years to be together.    Now that the kids are older, we have skipped a few years, but Disney is a very special place for all of us because they really made my sister's family feel good.

My sister had to show the official diagnose to get the special pass.   Up to six people can be in their group, but my kids only do one special ride with their cousin before the end of the day.    We did joke that my nephew can be a good Disney tour guide when we heard about people hiring disabled tour guide.   He knows how to get from one ride to another much better than any  of us.   He has photographic memory.   The only problem is to get him to show you where you want to go.   My 15 year old son took him to the zoo and came back telling me they somehow always ended up in the kid's farm.


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## SMHarman (Sep 24, 2013)

vacationhopeful said:


> Well the abuse of this line now has Disney revising it way to grant access to attractions. The newscaster said it was due to the abuse of HIRING a handicap person to avoid lines.
> 
> A system similar to FASTPASS will be offered (actually it may be FASTPASS) - it was described as getting a "ticket" to come back at a certain time for the attraction access.


So right now we don't exactly know how this is going to work, just that it is going to change.  It may work like a fast pass but clearly it can't be a fastpass as then they could tell everyone it's gone, use fastpass.


gmarine said:


> Many children with autism and other disabilities in that spectrum cant handle waiting in long lines. Many children with diabilities also cant handle long hours in the parks. The Guest Assistance Card allowed disabled children to get on some rides quickly and end their day in the park quickly. For these reasons some wont wont be able to visit Disney parks. I know of several people who have already canceled Disney vacations because of this change. For my family, well we are on the fence for our trip next year, however, its likely that we will have to cancel as well.


So these friends have cancelled trips before they understood what the alternative was and you are doing the same.


gmarine said:


> Unfortunately this change means many disabled children and adults arent going to be able to visit Disney parks.  There definitely was too much abuse of the Guest Assistance Card but the current changes arent the right way to address it.
> 
> The current changes provide a time for disabled people to return to the ride, much like a Fastpass does. The problem I see is that you are only allowed one pass at a time. So for example, if a ride has a 90 minute wait, you will be given a pass to return in 90 minutes. However, for people who cant wait in line due to a disability, they must wait 90 minutes somewhere to get on the ride and are unable to get another pass for a different ride in the meantime.  Imagine a disabled child looking forward to going on a ride only to be told they have to come back in 90 minutes.
> 
> Unless you have a disabled child you have no idea what its like. Walk for a day in the shoes of a disabled child or the childs parents and then tell me that getting to go on a ride without a long line is a special perk that disabled children dont deserve.


So unless someone can point me to exactly how the new system works my WAG is that you get a fastpass like ticket that is programmed with the rides you want and times to turn up at those rides.  A family can turn up at the park and visit the rides they need at the times they need then leave but get a limit on the number of rides they can expedite just like the rest of us.  So a family with needs gets to go on 15 rides in the compressed day (then anything else is like a regular family) and a regular family manages 15 rides in a full day.
I know that Disney has problems policing the current process and there are HIPPA problems, thankfully I have never had to research this.
Change always creates concern, the new fastpass like system may actually work out as well and be better to police.


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## hypnotiq (Sep 24, 2013)

http://www.doctordisney.com/2013/09...abled-assistance-system-das-could-wdw-follow/


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## heathpack (Sep 24, 2013)

hypnotiq said:


> http://www.doctordisney.com/2013/09...abled-assistance-system-das-could-wdw-follow/



Well reading this I agree the new system seems cumbersome for the disabled person.  It sounds like there will be a fair amount of slogging around from attraction to Guest Relations to get a new pass for each ride.  Then standing in Guest Relations line?  Unless they are going to open and staff a half-dozen kiosks per park, this seems to be user-unfriendly system.

In Disney's defense, however, abuse of the old system was rampant.  Before everyone jumps down my throat claiming I am assuming this because I've seen disabled people using the system but I did not realize they were disabled, let me assure you that is not what I'm talking about.  I'm talking about the able bodied locals who know to get a GAC card to avoid lines and will openly tell you all about it and how you don't have to actually be disabled to take advantage.  It wouldn't even surprise me if this weird new system isn't just a way of invalidating all the old GACs.  Put a new system in place and at least all the current abusers of the system have to come up with a new fake doctors note for every visit.

I'm sorry for the disabled folks who will be shafted for awhile, it's the last thing they need.  But I'll bet Disney comes up with something way better after the reset.  Geekette is right, though- Disney is trying to do something fair and in the past they were trying to be generous/helpful.  The people that ruined it are the abusers, not Disney.  I would encourage Disney to come up with something more disabled-friendly but not go back to the old system.

H


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## Bunk (Sep 24, 2013)

Many people have either forgotten that there are consequences to their actions or they just don't care.  


It is happening in airports also:
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/10/04/n...rs-to-avoid-airport-lines.html?pagewanted=all


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## MauiLea (Sep 24, 2013)

*Disney Changing Guest Assistance Pass Program*

I was disappointed to hear that Disney is changing their guest assistance pass (GAP) program due to abuses practiced by (hopefully) a small group of wealthy people. Apparently, some wealthy people hired disabled people to go with them on their visits to Disney so they could get a GAP and jump to the front of the line.

How unscrupulous! A few people abused the program and now many disabled people, including disabled children, must pay the penalty. 

I hope Disney comes up with a way to accomodate the handicapped in an effective way. It sounds like the new plan (to be fully announced) involve a timed ticket of some kind (same as if you waited on the standby line) and you just have to return at the stated time. It sounds similar to a fast pass.

What do others think about this new program? If you are disabled, how will this affect your future plans and visits to Disney?


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## MauiLea (Sep 25, 2013)

It's not just about disabled kids. I have an 81 year old father who is able to walk slowly (refuses a scooter or a wheelchair), is diabetic and STUBBORN. We got a guest assistance card for him last Christmas when the parks were really, really crowded. Even with the card and relatively quick access, we didn't stay more than 4 hours per day.  He got to go on a few rides with the family during his short time at the park. He paid almost $ 90 per day. Some days, we were only at the park for 2 hours, because it was so crowded and that was as much as we could handle. 

While the new changes (timed tickets) seem to be more fair, if he is only able to go on two rides in the 4 hours that he is at the park, it just isn't worth it. We will find some other way for him to enjoy a vacation with the grandkids.

Having a guest assistance pass was the reason we chose to do Disney as a family over Universal. Service and economics. The Universal Fast Pass is limited in it's benefits for us and there is an extra charge and /or we would have to stay at a Universal Resort rather than a timeshare condo.


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## Smokatoke (Sep 25, 2013)

My son has Autism and it will be tough going back. He cant sit still for 5 minutes let alone 1-3 hours in a line. I am only a fan because of my kids, otherwise I would never pay $100+ for a ticket to maybe go on 5 rides because the lines are so ridiculous and it would be impossible for my son... They just need to designate one day a week for disabled line hopping, or top of the hour each ride will allow a 5 minute window for line hoppers.


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## ondeadlin (Sep 25, 2013)

I think a more reasonable solution would have been to keep the old system, but limit folks to 10 guest assistance card days a year or something along those lines.


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## geekette (Sep 25, 2013)

stanleyu said:


> If you look through the news reports you will see that disabled persons will NOT have to wait in line. They just can't go to the front of the line. They will be given a coupon, like a fastpass, to come back at a certain time - the approximate time their position would get to the front. That way they can do something else - not in line - until their turn comes up and THEN go to the front.



exactly, so what's the problem?

Museums have been using timed tickets for years.  It works.  At 2 pm you ride teacups at 3 pm you're on Ride B, 3:30 for Ride C....   How are "scheduled rides" Worse?  

If waiting in line is an issue, how did disabled manage previously?  Front of line passes get you at least near the front, but wouldn't you still be In Line behind those with same passes ahead of you?  OR, for each run, do they exhaust the special pass lane before taking other pax?  I'm trying to get a handle on the waiting in line hardship, ding me if you want, but I have never been to Disney (no desire, not a fan of crowds).   Weren't there Always Lines, even with the special pass?  

Further, Disney is the pioneer of analyzing wait times and communicating to guests (they were early with the walking tour gadgets, for example, and notifications for when Rides You Want have low lines).  Don't dump on them.  Instead, trust them to figure this out to benefit those who deserve the benefit while minimizing abuse.  I cannot imagine any amusement park provider that gives a damn more than they do.


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## mspeggysue911 (Sep 25, 2013)

gmarine said:


> Unfortunately this change means many disabled children and adults arent going to be able to visit Disney parks.  There definitely was too much abuse of the Guest Assistance Card but the current changes arent the right way to address it.
> 
> The current changes provide a time for disabled people to return to the ride, much like a Fastpass does. The problem I see is that you are only allowed one pass at a time. So for example, if a ride has a 90 minute wait, you will be given a pass to return in 90 minutes. However, for people who cant wait in line due to a disability, they must wait 90 minutes somewhere to get on the ride and are unable to get another pass for a different ride in the meantime.  Imagine a disabled child looking forward to going on a ride only to be told they have to come back in 90 minutes.
> 
> Unless you have a disabled child you have no idea what its like. Walk for a day in the shoes of a disabled child or the childs parents and then tell me that getting to go on a ride without a long line is a special perk that disabled children dont deserve.



This is not true. The disabled person will get a return time (DAS fastpass) and they will also be able to pull a regular fastpass like everyone else does. So they will be able to have 2 fastpasses at one time unlike us who only get one.

They also get a return time for the standby time MINUS 15 minutes so they actually have a shorter wait than able bodied ppl, and when they do return they still get to use the fastpass line.

For years all the families of Autistic kids said OH WE DON'T MIND WAITING we just need an alternate place to wait. Well here you go. Now you can wait like everybody else but you can wait wherever you want to. We have to STAY IN THE LINE the whole time we wait.

So the disabled still have several advantages over the able bodied ppl.


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## mspeggysue911 (Sep 25, 2013)

heathpack said:


> Well reading this I agree the new system seems cumbersome for the disabled person.  It sounds like there will be a fair amount of slogging around from attraction to Guest Relations to get a new pass for each ride.  Then standing in Guest Relations line?  Unless they are going to open and staff a half-dozen kiosks per park, this seems to be user-unfriendly system.
> 
> In Disney's defense, however, abuse of the old system was rampant.  Before everyone jumps down my throat claiming I am assuming this because I've seen disabled people using the system but I did not realize they were disabled, let me assure you that is not what I'm talking about.  I'm talking about the able bodied locals who know to get a GAC card to avoid lines and will openly tell you all about it and how you don't have to actually be disabled to take advantage.  It wouldn't even surprise me if this weird new system isn't just a way of invalidating all the old GACs.  Put a new system in place and at least all the current abusers of the system have to come up with a new fake doctors note for every visit.
> 
> ...



They do not have to keep going back and forth between rides and guest relations. You go to guest relations once each morning to get your card. Then there will be a disabled kiosk in EACH LAND right near the rides that they walk up to when they want a return time.


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## mspeggysue911 (Sep 25, 2013)

MauiLea said:


> I was disappointed to hear that Disney is changing their guest assistance pass (GAP) program due to abuses practiced by (hopefully) a small group of wealthy people. Apparently, some wealthy people hired disabled people to go with them on their visits to Disney so they could get a GAP and jump to the front of the line.
> 
> How unscrupulous! A few people abused the program and now many disabled people, including disabled children, must pay the penalty.
> 
> ...



It's not called GAP it was called GAC, Guest Assistance Card.

And that news story about someone wealthy hiring a disabled person to skip the lines was just the icing on the cake. That was not the big issue.

The big issue is the sheer number of ppl who have found out if you have a GAC you can skip the lines. So now they fake it. They lie and say their kid has autism. Or they try to say they need one for Diabetes, High Blood Pressure, ADHD, bad knees. All the things that the GAC was never meant for.

If you have mobility issues and can't stand in line you rent a wheelchair or ECV.


The requests for GAC's was out of hand and overwhelming the lines and causing able bodied ppl to have to sometimes wait double or triple because they let everybody go through the fastpass line before they let ppl go in the regular standby line.

I have been in a standby line and seen the same family, with a GAC hanging around their neck on a lanyard go running and laughing through the line three times in a  row before my family ever got through once.

That doesn't happen to me often because we go in the off season and we use fatspass when the wait is longer than 20 minutes.


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## MauiLea (Sep 25, 2013)

We aren't dumping on Disney. They were better than any other theme park for providing this benefit for the disabled. This is why we have not taken my 81 year old father to any other amusement park with the grandkids.  In the last 20 years, he has only been to Disney. 

The guest assistance pass doesn't always get you to the front of the line; it just acts like a fast pass and once you get on line, there may be a wait....however the wait is shorter.  For example, if the standby line for Soarin' is 120 minutes, he may just wait 20 minutes. 

Maybe the real issue is that Disney lines for the popular rides are TOO LONG for everyone. I've been to Hollywood Studios when the line for Toy Story was 240 minutes....that's crazy!  A disabled child or a fragile 81 year old can't wait on line for 240 minutes. Even if the park provided a ticket for them to return in 4 hours, they may not last 4 hours in the park.  That's all I am saying.


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## mspeggysue911 (Sep 25, 2013)

MauiLea said:


> We aren't dumping on Disney. They were better than any other theme park for providing this benefit for the disabled. This is why we have not taken my 81 year old father to any other amusement park with the grandkids.  In the last 20 years, he has only been to Disney.
> 
> The guest assistance pass doesn't always get you to the front of the line; it just acts like a fast pass and once you get on line, there may be a wait....however the wait is shorter.  For example, if the standby line for Soarin' is 120 minutes, he may just wait 20 minutes.
> 
> Maybe the real issue is that Disney lines for the popular rides are TOO LONG for everyone. I've been to Hollywood Studios when the line for Toy Story was 240 minutes....that's crazy!  A disabled child or a fragile 81 year old can't wait on line for 240 minutes. Even if the park provided a ticket for them to return in 4 hours, they may not last 4 hours in the park.  That's all I am saying.



I think anybody waiting 4 hours for one ride is crazy in the head to begin with. There is no way I would subject my family to 240 minutes of waiting in a hot stuffy line surrounded by strangers when you can pull a fastpass and have a return time to come back and go through the fastpass line.

Now if riding Toy Story is a priority for any family they do need to know you have get there right at rope drop (opening) and pull a fastpass as soon as you get there. Same thing goes for Soarin and Test Track.

You can't show up at 10 or 11 and expect to be able to ride the headliners without an extreme wait.

If you pull a fastpass for Toy Story then immediately get into the standby line your wait will usually only be 20 minutes or so. That is what we do every time.


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## heathpack (Sep 25, 2013)

mspeggysue911 said:


> They do not have to keep going back and forth between rides and guest relations. You go to guest relations once each morning to get your card. Then there will be a disabled kiosk in EACH LAND right near the rides that they walk up to when they want a return time.



Where did you get this information- about the kiosks in each land?

H


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## lizap (Sep 25, 2013)

What is our world coming to.  Sorry a few ruined it for those who really  need it.  Shame on Disney!


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## vacationhopeful (Sep 25, 2013)

lizap said:


> What is our world coming to.  Sorry a few ruined it for those who really  need it.  Shame on Disney!



A FEW? It was NOT DISNEY - it was the many who felt entitled and who REALLY don't have an illness or handicap, but do have the money and "balls" to claim they do. Disney, by law and occupation, can not SAY, "Oh, you don't have a 'true' handicap" and send someone to the other line. It was the HONOR system, basicly. And it became something else.

But your comment of "what is our world coming to" is correct - your target was WRONG!

AND next are you going to suggest the EMHs should not be for ON PROPERTY RESORT GUESTS? After all, their ticket is JUST like the one you paid for... why should they be special? And why not let all the disable people use the parks during those EMHs also.


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## Luanne (Sep 25, 2013)

lizap said:


> What is our world coming to.  Sorry a few ruined it for those who really  need it.  Shame on Disney!



How about shame on those who took advantage.


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## mspeggysue911 (Sep 25, 2013)

heathpack said:


> Where did you get this information- about the kiosks in each land?
> 
> H



Someone posted some info in a blog post that Disney released regarding the implementation of it at DL and it stated that it would be the same for WDW. A kiosk in each land.

Also a poster on the DISboards said she personally spoke to a guest relations rep who spent 20 minutes laying it all out for her how it is going to work and they said there will be a kiosk in each land. But I first saw it in a blog post.


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## lizap (Sep 25, 2013)

As I've grown older, I 've become a little more empathetic and compassionate (I hope).  In most of our life times, either we or a loved one is going to experience a disability/handicap or serious illness.  I would hope that we would think about how we would want to be treated if we were in this position.  I have a close family member who has MS.  She didn't ask for this, but she has it.  She goes to work every day, in fact never misses a day, works 50-60 hours a week, using a walker.  She has the best attitude, never complains, is always trying to do for others; never asks others to do for her.  She loves Disney, and has since she was a child.  She always takes a scooter, but never wants to 'break' in line, but is appreciative when this is an option.  For those of you who know a little about MS, you know that it is not practical for her to walk the entire parks or wait in line in the hot sun, even on a scooter.   The sun has an awful effect on MS patients, so riding around waiting on your fast pass time is not a realistic possibility.  I suppose she could find a café/restaurant or shop to wait at, but they really do not want you waiting there unless you are planning to dine or shop there.  I am disappointed with Disney's decision, but not really surprised.  What's wrong with helping or being kind to the elderly, the disabled, or less fortunate.  It may be us one day.  Surely, Disney could have come up with a workable solution to this problem.




vacationhopeful said:


> A FEW? It was NOT DISNEY - it was the many who felt entitled and who REALLY don't have an illness or handicap, but do have the money and "balls" to claim they do. Disney, by law and occupation, can not SAY, "Oh, you don't have a 'true' handicap" and send someone to the other line. It was the HONOR system, basicly. And it became something else.
> 
> But your comment of "what is our world coming to" is correct - your target was WRONG!
> 
> AND next are you going to suggest the EMHs should not be for ON PROPERTY RESORT GUESTS? After all, their ticket is JUST like the one you paid for... why should they be special? And why not let all the disable people use the parks during those EMHs also.


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## vacationhopeful (Sep 25, 2013)

lizap said:


> decided to delete comment and not respond...



I have an ADHD nephew -- not major league issues, but I took him to Disney for a week. Alone, when he was 12. Just before his 2nd birthday, I went with him, his parents and his 2 older brothers. His mom spent all 4 days at the parks wearing him ON HER HEAD with HIM screaming - chanting she would NEVER do this again. 

He gets overheated in 65+ degree weather, also. I took him in January. I ask my sister, WHAT rides would he like to do? Her reply was "Nothing dark or enclosed or with things jumping out at him or with loud noise or scary. I can't think of one ride he will do; have fun for the week. I don't know WHAT you are going to do with him! BYE!" 

So, yes, I could have technically been in the special line. I only one time had to STOP a ride after it was LOCKED DOWN into the GO mode -- SOARING! Man, did I scream LOUD - he was about to freak! The attendant came down, took one LOOK at him, and got us off and out. We were in the first row; it took me 3+ days and 2.5 hours standing in line to get him back onto that ride. He did fine the second time - but he didn't have the 500lb guy next to him either.

So, am I an expert? --- NO WAY!. But I have a little bit of experience. And I have regularly had him stay with me for other weeks since he was 4 years old. And his parents KNOW and have multiple times, asked me to go on trips and events with them and room with him - he TRUSTS me and his parents don't have to cancel stuff or go solo parent with the other 2 boys. He usually sleeps in their room on trips. BUt if I am there, he sleeps in my room.

One event for his dad's job and I sat in a different building with the nephew - my BIL turned WHITE with fear, when I told him, so&so says HI. His first thought and words were, "how was (my son)????" and I said, "Fine, he was with me. He was perfect. As always."

As his first Texas cousin (a year older) told me -- he has never seen him so well behave and NOT ACTING OUT as during the 1 week Alaskan cruise. Asked me WHAT did I do to him ... as he has been impossible on the prior 8 years of shared vacation trips. And the ONLY reason my other siblings and their families went with that sister and family on the cruise, was because I was going. Even on the ADHD drugs, he gets to be too much MOST of the time.

I could go on - but you would just comment, that I don't live with him 24/7. That he is HIGH performing. He is not retarded nor he doesn't communicate. Etc. Etc. But I am sensitive to other people's much bigger problems. 

But there have been too many people getting over on the disable line - Disney has to be FAIR to all their guests.


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## lizap (Sep 25, 2013)

As I indicated in my previous post, Disney is a big company with lots of bright people, surely they could have come up with a workable solution, if they had so desired...FWIW, I would not have made those comments to you.. 




vacationhopeful said:


> I have an ADHD nephew -- not major league issues, but I took him to Disney for a week. Alone, when he was 12. Just before his 2nd birthday, I went with him, his parents and his 2 older brothers. His mom spent all 4 days at the parks wearing him ON HER HEAD with HIM screaming - chanting she would NEVER do this again.
> 
> He gets overheated in 65+ degree weather, also. I took him in January. I ask my sister, WHAT rides would he like to do? Her reply was "Nothing dark or enclosed or with things jumping out at him or with loud noise or scary. I can't think of one ride he will do; have fun for the week. I don't know WHAT you are going to do with him! BYE!"
> 
> ...


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## mspeggysue911 (Sep 25, 2013)

lizap said:


> As I indicated in my previous post, Disney is a big company with lots of bright people, surely they could have come up with a workable solution, if they had so desired...FWIW, I would not have made those comments to you..



Disney has come up with a workable solution. They will be rolling it out October 8th.  Ppl hate it because it is change and every time Disney changes something ppl go nuts about it. When they started enforcing fastpass return times ppl claimed it was the end of Disney as they knew it. Same thing here. Ppl will get use to it. If not nobody HAS to go to Disney. 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I717 using Tapatalk 2


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## timeos2 (Sep 25, 2013)

MauiLea said:


> We aren't dumping on Disney. They were better than any other theme park for providing this benefit for the disabled. This is why we have not taken my 81 year old father to any other amusement park with the grandkids.  In the last 20 years, he has only been to Disney.
> 
> The guest assistance pass doesn't always get you to the front of the line; it just acts like a fast pass and once you get on line, there may be a wait....however the wait is shorter.  For example, if the standby line for Soarin' is 120 minutes, he may just wait 20 minutes.
> 
> Maybe the real issue is that Disney lines for the popular rides are TOO LONG for everyone. I've been to Hollywood Studios when the line for Toy Story was 240 minutes....that's crazy!  A disabled child or a fragile 81 year old can't wait on line for 240 minutes. Even if the park provided a ticket for them to return in 4 hours, they may not last 4 hours in the park.  That's all I am saying.



They had the perfect system for spreading the wait and the ride demand with the A - E tickets. That naturally created a phased walk up & time delay as well as a demand for the lesser, but still enjoyable, features of a park. Now the whole focus is on the 2 or 3 biggest things, no one wants anything else, and practically all your time in the park is wasted waiting in lines. No wonder we don't enjoy it anymore and people try to find anyway they can to get in without the wait. 

Somehow Universal, Seaworld, Six Flags, Busch Gardens and others make it work so much better even with (in many cases but not all) inferior attractions.  Often it's nothing more than a single rider bypass or two tracks instead of one - but somehow they keep people moving rather than waiting. Disney has become too focused on their need to sell sell sell and pay too little attention to what used to be the main attraction - the attractions! The disability thing is just another fallout from an overall poor design decisions of the many changes of the last two decades.  We dread visits to the very parks we used to love but now try to avoid.


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## lizap (Sep 25, 2013)

Perhaps 'workable' wasn't the exact word I was looking for.  But you're right, the elderly, handicapped, etc.. who can't wait in long lines in the sun don't have to experience the magnificence of Disney again... By no means, will it be the end of Disney though...




mspeggysue911 said:


> Disney has come up with a workable solution. They will be rolling it out October 8th.  Ppl hate it because it is change and every time Disney changes something ppl go nuts about it. When they started enforcing fastpass return times ppl claimed it was the end of Disney as they knew it. Same thing here. Ppl will get use to it. If not nobody HAS to go to Disney.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I717 using Tapatalk 2


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## SMHarman (Sep 25, 2013)

mspeggysue911 said:


> It's not called GAP it was called GAC, Guest Assistance Card.
> 
> And that news story about someone wealthy hiring a disabled person to skip the lines was just the icing on the cake. That was not the big issue.
> 
> I have been in a standby line and seen the same family, with a GAC hanging around their neck on a lanyard go running and laughing through the line three times in a  row before my family ever got through once.



And the new fast pass style approach will fix that problem but possibly create others.

If disney is smart then they will work with those fast pass timings / cards / process and walking plans to create custom visit plans to replace the GAC.  After you have used your custom visit plan then you are just a regular in the park.


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## lizap (Sep 25, 2013)

What would be so difficult about having a physician complete a Disney form that certifies that an individual has special needs and needs special attention (e.g., can't stand in long lines) while at Disney?  While there would still be some abuse, it would be drastically curtailed.




SMHarman said:


> And the new fast pass style approach will fix that problem but possibly create others.
> 
> If disney is smart then they will work with those fast pass timings / cards / process and walking plans to create custom visit plans to replace the GAC.  After you have used your custom visit plan then you are just a regular in the park.


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## mspeggysue911 (Sep 25, 2013)

lizap said:


> Perhaps 'workable' wasn't the exact word I was looking for.  But you're right, the elderly, handicapped, etc.. who can't wait in long lines in the sun don't have to experience the magnificence of Disney again... By no means, will it be the end of Disney though...



This will absolutely not be the end of Disney. For every family that says if Disney does this we will never go back, there will be 2 or 3 more families to take their place. With record profits in the Billions I doubt Disney is worried about losing too many customers.

But it may be the end of Disney for some families that are use to having that unlimited fastpass and being able to skip the lines.

The elderly that can't stand in long lines or be in the sun don't have to be. They can get their return time and wait any place they like. In the shade, in a restaurant, on another ride.

They just have to WAIT now like everybody else.

Disney is not obligated to make everyone's experience great and special. They do have an obligation to provide equal access to all the attractions for disabled and able bodied ppl. And that is what they are doing.

They had a major problem they needed to solve and this is the fix for that.


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## lizap (Sep 25, 2013)

I can tell you from experience that the elderly cannot wait anywhere they want to at Disney ...





mspeggysue911 said:


> This will absolutely not be the end of Disney. For every family that says if Disney does this we will never go back, there will be 2 or 3 more families to take their place. With record profits in the Billions I doubt Disney is worried about losing too many customers.
> 
> But it may be the end of Disney for some families that are use to having that unlimited fastpass and being able to skip the lines.
> 
> ...


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## mspeggysue911 (Sep 25, 2013)

lizap said:


> I can tell you from experience that the elderly cannot wait anywhere they want to at Disney ...



Why can't they?


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## Luvstotravel (Sep 25, 2013)

Isn't it possible to get a ticket with a return time of, say, 90 minutes away, and spend those 90 minutes riding something else? For example, while waiting to ride Space Mountain, you could go on the People Mover, or the Carousel of Progress, which usually never have lines?  Or watch a parade?  Or take in some other live entertainment?  Is there anything that says that you must spend the 90 minutes sitting morosely on a bench, staring at the pavement?

There's so much to do at Disney World that's NOT just riding.


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## mspeggysue911 (Sep 25, 2013)

Luvstotravel said:


> Isn't it possible to get a ticket with a return time of, say, 90 minutes away, and spend those 90 minutes riding something else? For example, while waiting to ride Space Mountain, you could go on the People Mover, or the Carousel of Progress, which usually never have lines?  Or watch a parade?  Or take in some other live entertainment?  Is there anything that says that you must spend the 90 minutes sitting morosely on a bench, staring at the pavement?
> 
> There's so much to do at Disney World that's NOT just riding.



Not only can they do that but they can also pull a regular fastpass in addition to the DAS fastpass. So they can ride things while waiting for one of the other rides.

Once fastpass+ rolls out to where you can schedule up to 3 rides at whatever time you want to ride them AND the ability to have 2 fastpasses out at one time, nobody should have very much down time in between rides.


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## Luvstotravel (Sep 25, 2013)

mspeggysue911 said:


> Not only can they do that but they can also pull a regular fastpass in addition to the DAS fastpass. So they can ride things while waiting for one of the other rides.
> 
> Once fastpass+ rolls out to where you can schedule up to 3 rides at whatever time you want to ride them AND the ability to have 2 fastpasses out at one time, nobody should have very much down time in between rides.



It sounds quite reasonable and fair.  I applaud Disney!  Those who "can't wait" don't have to. They can go do something else fun while waiting until their return time.


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## rfc0001 (Sep 25, 2013)

I think there is an overreaction to this policy on both sides of this debate. To be fair, Disney invited this by stating the policy changes were to stem abuse, which I think was a mistake from a PR perspective. They just as easily could have implemented this policy, without smearing a whole group of people, the vast majority of which were not abusing the policy. Likewise, they are just feeding the flame for people saying this problem was widespread based on news reports and their own assumptions. Shame on Disney for smearing undeserving people or giving people ammunition to smear them further in debates such as this. That said, aside from how Disney communicated this policy as being in response to abuse, which I think is the wrong message, I think the policy itself is reasonable. The common complaint seems to be they are making people stand in lines who previously didn't stand in lines. This is not true. You still don't have to stand in line, and still have the exact same special accommodations. The only difference is you can only enter rides at the same rate as those without disabilities. The intent of the policy was never to allow unrestricted access to rides. It was simply designed to prevent people once they entered a ride from having to deal with the constraints of standing in line and provide special accommodations for loading/unloading, etc. This is all still intact. Granted, this means you will have to fill the time in between rides in other areas of the park, however there are plenty of rides no wait time, and plenty other attractions and events that don't have any lines at all. You can still enjoy those attractions in between attractions that do have wait times. Yes, it requires more planning and scheduling, which is an added inconvenience, but it is possible. So, I hope people give this new policy a chance who are opposed to it. I also hope people on both sides of this debate stop the vitriol, and again shame on Disney for egging this response on by accusing people with disabilities of abusing the system. I know there is abuse, but its not fair to make a blanket statement towards a mostly undeserving audience who deserve nothing but all of our support.


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## lizap (Sep 25, 2013)

Most restaurants/cafes and shops do not allow people on scooters to ride in and wait there.  For someone with a mobility issue,  to get a fast pass, and then ride to a shop or restaurant, get off the scooter, and then get back on and ride to the attraction is simply not practical.  You're not going to understand until it affects you or someone you know personally. I'm not sure I would understand either if I didn't have a family member with MS.  Nuff said...





mspeggysue911 said:


> Why can't they?


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## mspeggysue911 (Sep 25, 2013)

rfc0001 said:


> I think there is an overreaction to this policy on both sides of this debate. To be fair, Disney invited this by stating the policy changes were to stem abuse, which I think was a mistake from a PR perspective. They just as easily could have implemented this policy, without smearing a whole group of people, the vast majority of which were not abusing the policy. Likewise, they are just feeding the flame for people saying this problem was widespread based on news reports and their own assumptions. Shame on Disney for smearing undeserving people or giving people ammunition to smear them further in debates such as this. That said, aside from how Disney communicated this policy as being in response to abuse, which I think is the wrong message, I think the policy itself is reasonable. The common complaint seems to be they are making people stand in lines who previously didn't stand in lines. This is not true. You still don't have to stand in line, and still have the exact same special accommodations. The only difference is you can only enter rides at the same rate as those without disabilities. The intent of the policy was never to allow unrestricted access to rides. It was simply designed to prevent people once they entered a ride from having to deal with the constraints of standing in line and provide special accommodations for loading/unloading, etc. This is all still intact. Granted, this means you will have to fill the time in between rides in other areas of the park, however there are plenty of rides no wait time, and plenty other attractions and events that don't have any lines at all. You can still enjoy those attractions in between attractions that do have wait times. Yes, it requires more planning and scheduling, which is an added inconvenience, but it is possible. So, I hope people give this new policy a chance who are opposed to it. I also hope people on both sides of this debate stop the vitriol, and again shame on Disney for egging this response on by accusing people with disabilities of abusing the system. I know there is abuse, but its not fair to make a blanket statement towards a mostly undeserving audience who deserve nothing but all of our support.



I don't think Disney was accusing the disabled community of the abuse. They were calling it like they saw it. Considering you now have ppl going into guest services and asking for a GAC for High blood pressure, Diabetes, knee pain and ADHD. Things like that I have seen myself.

Hopefully now they will crack down on all the "ailments" they have been giving GAC's to.

But the ppl are so use to having that pass that let them cut the line that now they are up in arms about it and starting petitions on moveon.org and change.org telling Disney they want them to leave the old fashioned GAC in place.

That is not going to happen. The change is coming. Now is the time for ppl to get as much info as they can and prepare for the changes to come.

Now there will have to be planning involved to maximize your time in the park as opposed to just going from ride to ride in lightening speed with no waits.

This new system will make things fair across the board for everybody.


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## mspeggysue911 (Sep 25, 2013)

This was posted on MiceAgeToday and is the info for Dl but is suppose to be the exact system for WDW.


"The existing Guest Assistance Card (GAC) program is set to be discontinued and replaced with a new system on Wednesday, October 9th at Disneyland and DCA. As weve outlined for you before, after years of revolving door executives not wanting to get near the GAC issue, the rampant fraud inherent in the 10 year old GAC program was brought to an embarrassing light via an expose on The Today Show last May. Only then did the executives on both coasts admit that something finally had to be done, and the existing Guest Assistance Card will cease to exist on October 9th.

In its place will be an entirely new program called the Disabled Assistance System (DAS). The DAS will work similarly to the return passes issued at popular rides like Star Tours 2.0 and Radiator Springs Racers, where currently a GAC holder gets a Fastpass-style return time hand written on a card based on the current Standby wait time. But with DAS, that concept will be rolled out to several dozen high-wait attractions in Anaheim. Instead of going to the actual ride to get a return card, a DAS holder will report to one of several Guest Relations kiosks that will be set up around the parks, with a current plan to have four kiosks in Disneyland (Fantasyland alone gets their own kiosk) and three kiosks in DCA. The DAS holder will present their card and tell the Guest Relations CM which attraction they want to ride, the CM will look at the current wait time via the official Disney Mobile Magic app on an iPad, and will then write out a return time for that attraction and subtract 10 or 15 minutes to make up for the travel time to and from the kiosk.
Only one ride reservation on a DAS card can be made at a time, so if the current wait for Space Mountain is 90 minutes and your return time is written for 75 minutes later, a DAS holder will not get another return time printed on their DAS until the first one has expired. A person with a DAS card could go and do anything else in the park in the meantime; watch a parade, see a show, have lunch, go on low-wait time attractions, pull a regular Fastpass for any other attraction, etc. But only one ride time can be reserved at a time with DAS, unlike the existing GAC which serves as basically an open Fastpass for any Fastpass lane in the park or an access card to go up the exit on any other type of attraction. The DAS changes that quite dramatically.
The DAS cards will be issued only at Guest Relations offices in both parks, and the DAS kiosks are only for checking in for a specific ride. There will be no different stamps on the DAS like the current GAC with its half dozen stamp codes; you will either be issued a DAS or you will be instructed to use a wheelchair or other aid for your mobility issue. DAS will only be issued for one day at a time, although folks who can prove they are staying at a hotel for a few days could get a DAS dated for a short length of stay.

The person who is disabled and who has the DAS issued to them will also have their digital photo taken at Guest Relations, and the photo will be printed on the front of the DAS card and used by CMs at the attractions to confirm that the DAS holder is actually going on the ride. The photos will prevent a current form of abuse, whereby one member of a party gets a GAC issued to them but then insists to the CMs that they dont want to ride they just want their children or friends to go in through the exit and skip the line while they wait nearby on a bench. Or worse, children or others in the party are coached into telling the CMs that they are the person listed who was issued the GAC. To use a DAS, the person the DAS is issued to must be present at the kiosk and at the attraction and must go on the ride for the DAS privilege to work for the rest of the party.

There are more radical changes in DCA, where all queues and park facilities meet ADA requirements for wheelchair accessibility. In DCA, a person in a wheelchair or ECV wont receive any extra courtesies or services beyond those visitors who are not in a wheelchair. People visiting DCA in wheelchairs likely wont qualify for a DAS, and will now experience the park as everyone else does, including waiting in Standby lines and juggling Fastpass return times. The task of implementing that culture change will be more intense in Anaheim than Orlando as there are currently 55 attractions at Disneyland Resort that use a ride vehicle, and about 35 of those have wheelchair accessible queues. Comparatively, there are a total of 46 attractions at Walt Disney Worlds four parks combined that use a ride vehicle, and 38 of those have wheelchair accessible queues. There are more rides overall at Disneyland Resort compared to WDW, and more of them in Anaheim are not wheelchair accessible.

The goal behind DAS is to still offer service to those who may need it, but to also eliminate the wild excesses of the GAC system which operated on most days and on most rides as an unlimited Fastpass card and/or a backdoor pass to slip in via the exit with a much shorter wait. The one exception to the DAS program is made for Make-A-Wish children. A new Genie lanyard has been created for Make-A-Wish children that will act like an unlimited Fastpass and instant backdoor access card (basically the same thing as the current GAC with the green light stamp on it), and it will be sent to the families just before their visit directly from the Make-A-Wish headquarters in Phoenix. The Make-A-Wish cards wont be kept on Disney property, at the specific request of Disney to avoid any ability to use that courtesy for anyone other than qualified Make-A-Wish visitors.

Guest Relations and Attractions Cast Members in both parks have already been scheduled classroom training for the DAS program through late September and early October. The Guest Relations team will get the most intensive training day, as theyll be on the front lines of this new system as they try and reel in expectations of Annual Passholders used to having a GAC with easy access to any ride they wanted. Staffing for Guest Relations is being beefed up as much as possible beginning with roll-out day on Wednesday, October 9th, and the Security department has also been asked to help staff officers in Guest Relations centers in Disneyland and DCA to help with anyone who may get verbally abusive or threaten violence against those Guest Relations CMs doling out the more restrictive DAS cards.

It helps that the exact same program is being rolled out at WDW at the same time, and that finally there are several senior executives supporting the program. It will be interesting to see how strong the executives stand behind the DAS program when the inevitable ugly media stories begin showing up on the local news and online, or heaven forbid if the CMs in the parks really start taking serious verbal or physical abuse."


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## mspeggysue911 (Sep 25, 2013)

*This came directly from Disney*

Disability Access Service Card to replace Guest Assistance Card on Oct. 9

Disney has an unwavering commitment to making our experiences accessible to all Guests. 
After careful consideration, we will be replacing the Guest Assistance Card with the new Disability Access Service Card on Oct. 9 to create a more consistent experience for all our Guests while providing accommodations for Guests with disabilities.
Until Oct. 9, we will continue to use Guest Assistance Cards. We look forward to sharing more information about the Disability Access Service Card as we get closer to implementation.

Frequently Asked Questions:
How will the new program work?
The Disability Access Service Card will offer Guests a return time for an attraction based on the current wait time. Guest Assistance Cards will continue to be in effect until Oct. 9. We look forward to sharing more information as we get closer to implementation. 

Did you ask for feedback in developing the Disability Access Service Card?
We are engaging disability groups, and Autism Speaks was instrumental in providing feedback as we developed this new process.

Why are you doing this?
Given the increasing volume of requests we receive for special access to our attractions, we are changing our process beginning Oct. 9 so that it creates a more consistent experience for all our Guests while providing accommodations for Guests with disabilities.

Who will be eligible for a Disability Access Service Card?
Our goal is to accommodate Guests who aren't able to wait in a conventional queue environment due to a disability (including non-apparent disabilities).

Will Guests on wish trips also use Disability Access Service Cards?
No. Guests who are visiting through wish-granting organizations will have access through a separate program. 

What should Guests do if they have concerns? 
Guests should contact Guest Relations to discuss their assistance needs.


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## mspeggysue911 (Sep 25, 2013)

lizap said:


> Most restaurants/cafes and shops do not allow people on scooters to ride in and wait there.  For someone with a mobility issue,  to get a fast pass, and then ride to a shop or restaurant, get off the scooter, and then get back on and ride to the attraction is simply not practical.  You're not going to understand until it affects you or someone you know personally. I'm not sure I would understand either if I didn't have a family member with MS.  Nuff said...



I know exactly what it is like to use a scooter at WDW. I have used them numerous times. I have never has a CS restaurant deny me entry because I was on a scooter.


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## lizap (Sep 25, 2013)

Please provide the names of Disney restaurants that allow people on scooters to go inside and wait without eating.  This information will be very helpful to my family member with MS and perhaps to others.





mspeggysue911 said:


> I know exactly what it is like to use a scooter at WDW. I have used them numerous times. I have never has a CS restaurant deny me entry because I was on a scooter.


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## mspeggysue911 (Sep 25, 2013)

lizap said:


> Please provide the names of Disney restaurants that allow people on scooters to go inside and wait without eating.  This information will be very helpful to my family member with MS and perhaps to others.



I have gone into Electric Umbrella at Epcot numerous times and I have gone in Cosmic ray's at MK and Columbia Harbor House at MK. We very rarely do Animal Kingdom and we only eat table service at Hollywood Studios and most of their counter service places are outdoors.

All you have to do is go in and NOT go through the check out line. The seating is usually before and beside where you go to order your food.

You can also go into the land building at Epcot and go down to Sunshine Seasons.


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## lizap (Sep 25, 2013)

Thanks very much.  




mspeggysue911 said:


> I have gone into Electric Umbrella at Epcot numerous times and I have gone in Cosmic ray's at MK and Columbia Harbor House at MK. We very rarely do Animal Kingdom and we only eat table service at Hollywood Studios and most of their counter service places are outdoors.
> 
> All you have to do is go in and NOT go through the check out line. The seating is usually before and beside where you go to order your food.
> 
> You can also go into the land building at Epcot and go down to Sunshine Seasons.


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## Luvstotravel (Sep 25, 2013)

Why do you have to wait only at a restaurant or gift shop?  Why can't you go on another ride, one that has a very little wait?  As I said, it's possible to ride something like the People Mover or go on the Carousel of Progress with no wait.  Why not go on them, while waiting for the return time for Space Mountain?

While waiting to ride Splash Mountain, can't you spend the time going on, for example, the Enchanted Tiki Room?  Or see the Country Bears Jamboree?  Both of these attractions are usually not crowded. Why is there the perception that you can't do anything else while waiting for the appointed time to go on the ride with the long wait?

I still don't see anything that says that while waiting, you have to, well, basically just sit and wait!  Why not go have fun on other rides?  See a show?


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## heathpack (Sep 25, 2013)

Wow, is all I can say.  I never thought Disney execs would address this problem.

My take is that maybe some disabled were abusing the system (working as "tour guides" to get able-bodied on rides), but mostly Disney is trying to prevent abuse by the able-bodied.  Good for them.

Hopefully if the new system does not work, families of the disabled will provide meaningful feedback to Disney so that they can fix any parts of it that does not work.

H


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## MauiLea (Sep 25, 2013)

Luvstotravel is right. Once you get a DAS and your reserved time, you can always go elsewhere and enjoy another activity during the wait. I am sure Disney will monitor the new procedures to ensure a quality experience for all guests.

Maybe too many people were abusing the GAC, and I guess I never saw it. We always tried to be considerate of others and would never use the GAC to go on a popular ride more than once a day. 

A couple of years ago, I was at WDW with a friend who has ALS. At that time, his disability wasn't "visually apparent" so I am sure some guests may have thought we were abusing the privilege. Today, that friend is in the terminal stages of ALS....paralyzed from the neck down and on a respirator, etc. It's been very difficult on his family and many of his friends are so uncomfortable with the situation that they no longer visit him. I am honored to help care for him and provide respite for his family. I am glad that he got to enjoy a few last visits to WDW using the GAC when he was able to travel.  

I think everyone is passionate about this change because everyone agrees abuse needs to be minimized and everyone cares about families travelling with disabled or elderly people. I'm willing to see how the new DAS system works. It seems like a fair system.


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## gnorth16 (Sep 26, 2013)

geekette said:


> exactly, so what's the problem?
> 
> Museums have been using timed tickets for years.  It works.  At 2 pm you ride teacups at 3 pm you're on Ride B, 3:30 for Ride C....   How are "scheduled rides" Worse?
> 
> ...



Maybe people without a disability can base their days around a watch, but people with disabilities may not.  Physical limitations, autistic meltdowns, heat exhaustion, fatigue and a list of other things prevent us from having a Disney timetable.  It may be 1pm or it may be 4pm when we leave.  I don't dictate that time, my son and how his day is going does....

We will see how this rolls out, but this does have a major impact on us going back to Disney...

Added:

As for "How did people with disabilities manage previously?"....Many never went or those that did, were limited to what they could do and the amount of fun they could have...


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## SMHarman (Sep 26, 2013)

gnorth16 said:


> Maybe people without a disability can base their days around a watch, but people with disabilities may not.  Physical limitations, autistic meltdowns, heat exhaustion, fatigue and a list of other things prevent us from having a Disney timetable.  It may be 1pm or it may be 4pm when we leave.  I don't dictate that time, my son and how his day is going does....
> 
> We will see how this rolls out, but this does have a major impact on us going back to Disney...



And you hope Disney follow up and revisit the new protocol. They claim it was produced in consultation with a major Autism charity or something (it was in a post above).

Perhaps a better approach would have been to give an untimed fast pass admission for each ride so you get one guaranteed access with fastpass line a day (and possibly another timed fast pass admission) and any more are with, what did someone call it, standby line! / general admission.

That way you get access but cannot, as has been seen by other poster and muck raked through the press, run laps around the ride and get on the ride 3 times while others are still standing in the general admission line.

That was never the intent of these passes and as with many things the 1%-5% that have abused it have damaged the product for the 95%.


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## vacationhopeful (Sep 26, 2013)

All people rationalize their behavior in a VAST number of ways. And then they believe they are JUSTIFIED in their actions.

WDW and Disney Corporation is changing their procedure for queues on their rides. They are not changing the seats or loading procedures or having fewer seats for any class of people - all that is the exact same. Disney is just changing HOW their queues work. And it appears that they are making their queues EQUAL in event timing and giving a handicap discount via "their travel to the ride time adjustment" factor. 

I have used Fast Pass - I find it is not that great - I forget to ride using my Fast Pass about 60% of the time. Others guests LIVE by Fast Pass.

I should PLAN my day at the park BETTER and make better use of the Fast Pass system. I should read the Guide Books with the park layouts and which rides are crowded when. I should do RIDES verses watching parades or taking a nap at the unit. And I acknowledge, I am spoiled by staying onsite and have developed some very lazy Disney habits.

But, I do think the new system will have some kinks at first and those smart Disney people will adjust some of the details ... but those smart Disney people HAD are just trying to be fair to ALL their guests.


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## mspeggysue911 (Sep 26, 2013)

Here is a link to a large long thread over on the Disney message boards on this very subject. There were several others but they got so heated that the mods shut them down. This one is still open for now. It is interesting to read the responses.

http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=3174463&page=15

You don't have to register to read it but if you want to respond you have to register (free)


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## happybaby (Sep 27, 2013)

When we were at Disney in Orlando about year ago (stayed off site and scooter rental off site) we did not receive any type of card.

We just went in the handicapped line.  

My mom 88 has hip problems, back, psoriasis on heels and gets out of breath

Then dd got dad a scooter for3days in a row in the park and got me one also so this way he would have to use his.

We did not abuse the handicapped line ourselves. I felt funny using it when we are capable of walking.   The scooter was to make it easier on us 

The only time we used the line was if mom was with us!!!   On rides that she didnt go on, we parked our scooter and stood in regular lines and waited.

But people did use scooters and use the disabled lines.   That was being abusive.


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## sfwilshire (Sep 29, 2013)

gmarine said:


> Unfortunately this change means many disabled children and adults arent going to be able to visit Disney parks.  There definitely was too much abuse of the Guest Assistance Card but the current changes arent the right way to address it.
> 
> The current changes provide a time for disabled people to return to the ride, much like a Fastpass does. The problem I see is that you are only allowed one pass at a time. So for example, if a ride has a 90 minute wait, you will be given a pass to return in 90 minutes. However, for people who cant wait in line due to a disability, they must wait 90 minutes somewhere to get on the ride and are unable to get another pass for a different ride in the meantime.  Imagine a disabled child looking forward to going on a ride only to be told they have to come back in 90 minutes.
> 
> Unless you have a disabled child you have no idea what its like. Walk for a day in the shoes of a disabled child or the childs parents and then tell me that getting to go on a ride without a long line is a special perk that disabled children dont deserve.



We don't visit the Universal Parks because they don't offer any relief to disabled individuals. This will likely reduce our time at Disney or at least limit us to the very slowest times of the year. As you say, unless you have a disabled child, you don't know. My child can only manage a short day at the parks even with a GAC. If he can only ride a couple of rides, it just isn't worth the high admission costs.

Busch parks have a policy that sounds similar, where you have to return after a certain wait. We've been lucky to visit at times that only the very busiest rides enforced the wait, if any. A child with limited mobility (or his or her parents pushing a manual wheelchair) can't really make good use of the wait time. It's either a long tiring trek to something without a line or sitting and waiting.

I understand the reasoning regarding the abuse, but my family will definitely reduce our visits to Disney World.

Sheila


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## sfwilshire (Sep 29, 2013)

geekette said:


> I simply do not understand not being able to wait in line, as that is what you say will prevent many disabled children from being able to go to Disney.



The issue for my child is stamina. While the typically abled child may be able to spend all day and evening in the park waiting for attractions, my child cannot. It becomes a cost/benefit issue. Is it worth the cost to spend four hours in the park to ride two rides? Likely not. 

Certainly you could make the argument that the same thing could apply to young children who no physical problems. Those children, however, will outgrown any limits imposed by their ages. My child will not.

Disney has always been provided a great experience for my son. It appears that won't be true in the future, so our visits will be few and far between. 

Sheila


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## sfwilshire (Sep 29, 2013)

mspeggysue911 said:


> I think anybody waiting 4 hours for one ride is crazy in the head to begin with. There is no way I would subject my family to 240 minutes of waiting in a hot stuffy line surrounded by strangers when you can pull a fastpass and have a return time to come back and go through the fastpass line.
> 
> Now if riding Toy Story is a priority for any family they do need to know you have get there right at rope drop (opening) and pull a fastpass as soon as you get there. Same thing goes for Soarin and Test Track.
> 
> ...



That implies you are physically able to make it through the crowds to the back of the park quickly in time to grab one of those early tickets. Quick movement through the park is not possible for all. Pushing a wheelchair can be tough with other guests rushing right in front of you with no regard for their safety.

Some "special" people don't handle disappointment easily. One favorite ride missed can ruin the day for everybody. Not Disney's problem, of course, but the bottom line may be that families choose to vacation elsewhere. 

I regret the 10-day no expiry tickets I ordered for the family when it looked like they were no longer going to be available. Maybe we'll eventually get to visit at dead slow times of year enough to use them.

Sheila


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## sfwilshire (Sep 29, 2013)

vacationhopeful said:


> I could go on - but you would just comment, that I don't live with him 24/7. That he is HIGH performing. He is not retarded nor he doesn't communicate. Etc. Etc. But I am sensitive to other people's much bigger problems.



Just so you know, you are using a word that is not politcally correct and is frowned upon in the disabled community. 

Disabled children often react differently with others than they do with their own family. My child will eat things at school that he would never touch at home. His adult sister can get him to do things that he won't budge on for his parents. It is kind of you to do things with your relative, but it doesn't suggest that his family is not doing the best they can with him.

Sheila


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## MeeshieMomma (Oct 1, 2013)

This is so infuriating to me.  I have skimmed much of what folks have said.

My daughter does not LOOK disabled.  When we went to Disney she was 5.  The GAC made our trip enjoyable.  I think the only ride she rode a few times was the spinning tea cups because they SPIN.   She has high functioning autism.  

We rode very few rides all in all.  The GAC was used for earlier admission into shows so we could get away from the crowds, to allow us ( a parent) to wait in line for her for character meet n greets and rarely to go to the front to meet a character.  

You have no idea until you have lived in a parents shoes what it is like to walk in our shoes.   Everything had to be planned perfectly in order to enjoy the disney trip and the GAC was a beautiful thing.  Even though my daughter was 5, she needed to be in the stroller to the absolute last minute because she pulled the canopy over her head to shut the noise out.    The GAC let her occasionally wait in the stroller until it was our turn.

I will never forget when we finally got to meet Rapunzel.  We found out she would be there at 1.  I got in line at 11 am.  I was the second person in line. I had to argue up down, left right and center with a cast member to let me wait in line for her.  I showed her GAC - he was not impressed.  "SHE MUST WAIT TOOO!!"  ANd then he saw my daughter,  oscilating between sobbing and RUNNING in circles and waving her hands, near the gates with other family members.    He let  me wait for her.    

So - you are telling me I need to occupy her for a set time period for her to ride a ride?  I have to keep her in the park for a wait time and try and navigate her back to the ride?   

My daughter does not look disabled.  She is in second grade with no special education classes.  She is just different.  

I will tell you Disney was BEAUTIFUL for our family.  It was a week when we had an amazing beautiful time.  The GAC really helped make that happen.   We did not abuse it at all.  We did have families scowl at us when we did go to the front because we didn't look disabled.   

When you are traveling with a child with special needs -you have no idea until you have done it.   Little tiny things like less wait time, or waiting with the stroller in line, or having an alternate wait in line for you - can make or break the trip.


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## heathpack (Oct 1, 2013)

MeeshieMomma said:


> This is so infuriating to me.  I have skimmed much of what folks have said.
> 
> My daughter does not LOOK disabled.  When we went to Disney she was 5.  The GAC made our trip enjoyable.  I think the only ride she rode a few times was the spinning tea cups because they SPIN.   She has high functioning autism.
> 
> ...



My sympathies.  But please be aware that I am not assuming abuse by seeing someone who *appears* able-bodied using the GAC.  I am aware of abuse by the relatively common occurrence here in SoCal of a perfectly well person who will TELL you they are perfectly well but have figured out how to hack Disneyland lines by getting a GAC.  I had to actually tell my hairdresser to stop talking about it, because I really like her and if she kept telling me about it, I wouldn't like her anymore.  Honestly, your beef should be with those folks.

I feel pretty confident Disney wants your business and they don't want to make a visit to Disneyland unnecessarily difficult.  It sounds like your Rapunzel experience is what they intend to replicate except that you would not need to personally wait in line.  I'd encourage you to think about what would work for your family, keeping in mind that the abuse is not a figment of people's imagination.  Then send your thoughts to Disney, I'll bet the more info they have, the better they can make the system.

H


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## lizap (Oct 1, 2013)

The problem here is that honestly there are many that can't relate to your situation nor are they willing to empathize (at this point).  As I said in a previous post,  if we live long enough, almost all of us will either have (or have a loved one who has) a serious health issue that will require some sort of accommodation.  If we would only follow the Golden Rule, so many things would fall into place.  One thing that hasn't been mentioned- I would bet that Disney's previous rules were probably put into place to comply with ADA.  I seriously doubt they voluntarily made these accomodations. I suspect there will be complaints/suits-remains to be seen what will happen.  My guess is that Disney will eventually be forced to modify their 'new' plan.




MeeshieMomma said:


> This is so infuriating to me.  I have skimmed much of what folks have said.
> 
> My daughter does not LOOK disabled.  When we went to Disney she was 5.  The GAC made our trip enjoyable.  I think the only ride she rode a few times was the spinning tea cups because they SPIN.   She has high functioning autism.
> 
> ...


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## happybaby (Oct 3, 2013)

Is this GAC only in Disneyland?

We used scooters in Disneyworld FL and never asked for a GAC or werequestioned about one

Mom rode her scooter thu stores and in restaurants she would park it either inside or out.  she can walk short distances.

As far as us, we only rode to save our backs from all day walking.  I stated before if mom werent with us on a ride, we wait in the regular lines

Even if in a few years we go back to FL , I think we will get the scooters just to ride but not use as disabled people.


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## mspeggysue911 (Oct 4, 2013)

*new article*

I saw this article today and thought it was interesting

http://www.themeparkinsider.com/flume/201309/3695/


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## mspeggysue911 (Oct 4, 2013)

happybaby said:


> Is this GAC only in Disneyland?
> 
> We used scooters in Disneyworld FL and never asked for a GAC or werequestioned about one
> 
> ...



The GAC is at Disneyland and Disney World. It is changing to a DAS instead of a GAC.

Ppl using wheelchairs or scooters do not use or get a GAC card. The cards are mainly for ppl with invisible disabilities.


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