# Royals AI - Here Come the Negative Reviews



## jasm (Nov 7, 2012)

What a shame.  Up until recently, virtually all the reviews on Tripadvisor for the Royal Sands were great.  Usually the few gripes were about it not being a 'real' hotel, ie., no toiletries or unlimited towels. Or an annoying concierge.  Already there are reports of rowdy guests who've had a few too many.  And the members are getting caught in the net of the AI plan to keep costs down by downsizing the portions on the menus.  

For the first time I'm not looking so forward to my weeks 51 & 52 coming up.  If there are already issues with rowdy guests, I expect it will only be worse during those weeks where capacity is the highest of the year.


----------



## maja651 (Nov 7, 2012)

Interesting, because this is not what we have experienced last week or this week so far at the Haciendas.  No rowdy drunks, and well, last week the food portions were the same.  This week, my quesadilla was the same, but the filet in my mom's grouper sandwich was less than half the size of the filet last week.  That has been the only negative change we noticed, and that was just one day (maybe a fluke?).


----------



## alfie (Nov 7, 2012)

We were at the Captains Cove last night.  There were a couple of AI in the place complaining about the surcharges on certain dishes.  40 pesos more for the sea bass, 60 on the lobster, etc. more on certain wines.  The menu was even confusing to us, until we clued into what it was all about.


----------



## Phydeaux (Nov 7, 2012)

Sounds like enough reasons for us to continue doing what we've already been doing for years. Take our meal business elsewhere or continue to prepare our feasts in our villa  using fresh, inexpensive local ingredients while enjoying a cold beverage. Also purchased off site.


----------



## maja651 (Nov 7, 2012)

Phydeaux said:


> Sounds like enough reasons for us to continue doing what we've already been doing for years. Take our meal business elsewhere or continue to prepare our feasts in our villa  using fresh, inexpensive local ingredients while enjoying a cold beverage. Also purchased off site.



We do that as well, at least for dinner when we are at the Haciendas.  Made a large batch of spaghetti sauce for a potluck dinner we're going to tonight at our friend's villa!  There will be about 16 of us! 

Michelle


----------



## buceo (Nov 7, 2012)

jasm said:


> What a shame.  Up until recently, virtually all the reviews on Tripadvisor for the Royal Sands were great...



Really?  I looked, saw great reviews under Sands & TA?  Can you link to them, maybe I missed 'em somewhere?  I've seen complaints on portion size, but I've not seen signs of "here come the negative reviews".  I'm not saying what is coming, but can't see them now, thanks.

I looked here,;
http://www.tripadvisor.com/Hotel_Re...The_Royal_Sands-Cancun_Yucatan_Peninsula.html

I didn't fully open all the reviews, but most recent posts, x6 excellent, x2 very good and 1 average, nothing overall negative


----------



## pjrose (Nov 7, 2012)

maja651 said:


> We do that as well, at least for dinner when we are at the Haciendas.  Made a large batch of spaghetti sauce for a *potluck dinner we're going to tonight at our friend's villa!  There will be about 16 of us! *
> 
> Michelle



Friends you met at the RH, or were you already friends before the RH?  I will guess the former, as that has been our experience in many years of ownership at the Tris.  

That's a major though intangible benefit of fixed week (and to a lesser extent, fixed unit) ownership at a resort, ie getting to know people and enjoying their company each year.  In a family oriented setting like the Royals, the same goes for the friends the kids make and grow up with.  

That is lacking in the "spacious suites with the amenities of a fine hotel" concept that is being pushed, along with AI, to non-owners.  



buceo said:


> .....
> 
> I didn't fully open all the reviews, but most recent posts, x6 excellent, x2 very good and 1 average, nothing overall negative



And regarding the original topic, the negative reviews, I read them all a day or so ago, and noticed comments about portions, noise, hanging at the pool bar all day, and, posed hypothetically, throw up on furniture.  (Maybe I read these elsewhere, but I think it was on TA)

Terribly negative?  No, but concerns are being noted.  

And then there's the one applauding the free minibar in the "hotel.". Good grief, that minibar is far from free at $115 pp per day, and that "hotel" mentality.....well, don't get me started.


----------



## buceo (Nov 7, 2012)

Of course any two reviews of exactly the same thing can be polar opposites, hence the more independent observations the better.

All I'm seeing here are opinions being posted that back up earlier predictions of disgust, destruction and demise that are not yet coming to fruition & may never, who knows.  The AI has been for what all of 2 weeks?

I'm simply requesting linking directly to referred reviews/posts of interest in addition to whatever op ed piece is posted.  Might there have been anything positive with those negative comments, all I saw were overall very positive reviews from Nov 2-6, 2012?
http://www.tripadvisor.com/Hotel_Re...l_Sands-Cancun_Yucatan_Peninsula.html#REVIEWS


----------



## ilene13 (Nov 7, 2012)

I too read the reviews on TA after reading this thread.  There was one that mentioned a rowdy guest and someone throwing up on a chair.  The rowdy guest and the person who threw up on the chair may not be  AI guests.  My husband is a physician and we are at the Sands weeks 14 and 15.  It is usually spring break.  There have been many incidents when adults would search out my husband because their children (teenagers) had over indulged in alcohol and had alcohol poisoning.  Also many of the adults also over drink as they are on vacation.  So let's not blame it all on the AI.  I am not in favor of AI and I will never do it, but I think we all need to see how this plays out.
We will be at the Haciendas next week.  I am interested in seeing what the deal is.  I do not cook on vacation but we frequent the restaurants that are not on the properties for dinner as we do not feel that the RR have wonderful dinner venues.  Lunch is acceptable so I will be able to report on that.


----------



## BoaterMike (Nov 8, 2012)

Walking back through the RH phase 2 courtyard last night after returning from PDC, we were amazed how quiet it was.   There had been about 10 people in the Rotunda bar, but I saw no wristbands.  

There were 4 AI younger customers drinking and doing shots at the pool bar yesterday for happy hour.   They were side-by-side with non-AI patrons doing the very same thing.

Mike


----------



## buceo (Nov 8, 2012)

There's a new TA Sands review (Nov 7, avg rating) that I think covers the main issues.
1) *It's a beautiful resort and a good place to own*, I think that has always been their core business.
2) *The place is boring*, They are 60 years old AI customers.  Boring is a negative to some and more of a feature to others.  I think these are the new customer base the Royals want the opportunity to sell weeks to.
3) *AI meals were too repetitive.* They can and need to remedy that immediately.  While there can't be a big choice in restaurants, what they can and must do is add a "wow" factor to each meal.


----------



## buceo (Nov 8, 2012)

A Nov 5th TA Hacienda review which I don't think was mentioned, "excellent/5 bullets" and:
*"...Paid for All-inclusive which was mandatory, little expensive, but I think we got our moneys worth. We had a great time."*

I'm assuming as this AI gets going there are going to be a wider range of reviews, probably some harsher than they have been for the resort before the AI, but we'll have to wait and see. The ride will be bumpy, buckle up as they say.


----------



## Helene4 (Nov 9, 2012)

Does any of the revenue from the restaurants go toward upkeep of the resorts and in turn keep our maintenance fees in check? If not, then do the restaurants pay rent to the resort to help keep our fees in check? 

My concern is that if it becomes a reality that AI people become rowdy from too much drink and food portions become diminished then fewer and fewer people will patronize the restaurants and ultimately the management will make up the shortfall on the backs of the owners and their fees.:annoyed:


----------



## RIBEACHGUY (Nov 9, 2012)

You know the main complaint everyone is going to have is the lack of variety. The Haciendas in particular don't have the variety to offer AI vacationers what they are looking for.


----------



## Phydeaux (Nov 9, 2012)

Helene4 said:


> Does any of the revenue from the restaurants go toward upkeep of the resorts and in turn keep our maintenance fees in check? If not, then do the restaurants pay rent to the resort to help keep our fees in check?
> 
> My concern is that if it becomes a reality that AI people become rowdy from too much drink and food portions become diminished then fewer and fewer people will patronize the restaurants and ultimately the management will make up the shortfall on the backs of the owners and their fees.:annoyed:



I'll add, who is pocketing the revenues from the AI? Member maintenance fees INCREASED for 2013. So much for passing along any savings. Would any other member besides me love to see managements income statements?


----------



## RIBEACHGUY (Nov 9, 2012)

Yes, I don't understand the reasoning behind the increase amounts. I have a Deluxe villa at the Haciendas and the increase was 2.5% where all other units in all royal resorts were  2.2% or 0%, what is the reasoning behind that?


----------



## BoaterMike (Nov 10, 2012)

Based on this week at RH, I'll summarize observations:
Low % of AI patrons.  I have not yet found a member that it is worth the fee.  There are some AI and none are roudy or creating problems.   Like Michelle pointed out, they do feel uncomfortable and more or less being singled out.  RR is primarily a "member" culture and not a "short timer" culture.   

Lack of dining and entertainment options.  Number of choices will not appeal over time to AI patrons.

Number and $ amount of surcharges:  There are limitations on sizes of drinks as well as surcharges for drinks and certain meals.  IMO, this may be one of the main reasons this program fails.   The number and levels of fees are  difficult to manage, operate and will be perceived negatively by AI patrons.  

My gut is that this program is a trial and will change significantly or simply go away.  There are simply too many flaws in the concept, operation and lack of facilities for it to prosper.  But, that's just an opinion.

Here's another take from Nov. 8 RH review showing issues and concerns:
 November 8 TA review

Mike


----------



## buceo (Nov 10, 2012)

Personally I sent the Nov 8 TA poster, who gave a great review with information /feedback, an apology for the obvious unwelcoming feeling they had while at my resorts.  Looks to me there is prejudging going on, someone buys the AI and find themselves wearing a Scarlet Letter.  Maybe the Royals can impose a fine for rude behavior of members toward AI guests. Must be vacationers thinking "what the heck is that person watching me for".


----------



## ilene13 (Nov 10, 2012)

We just checked into our villa at the Haciendas.  The couple checking in next to me own at the Sands and they asked to the young man checking them in to sign them up for AI.  I will report more as the week goes on!


----------



## jasm (Nov 11, 2012)

Ilene, Please let us know if, as has been reported, non AI members are paying the same prices for food as before AI, but now the portions are smaller to keep costs down among AI guests.


----------



## sbrower (Nov 11, 2012)

How would smaller portions keep down prices for AI?  Won't people on AI just order more appetizers and salads and even a second main course if the portions are too small?

I am interested to see how AI is changed in the next couple of weeks before I go there.  They already changed it so that all pizza is included.


----------



## buceo (Nov 11, 2012)

ilene13 said:


> We just checked into our villa at the Haciendas.  The couple checking in next to me own at the Sands and they asked to the young man checking them in to sign them up for AI.  I will report more as the week goes on!



Thanks, looking forward to it.  I've had a few emails with the Nov7/8 RS/RH TA reviewer & he mentioned that having off site restaurant choices is positive, "really unique", I think he said.  He didn't miss 4 on-site, one on-site and three off site was a nice set up.  He liked the idea of getting off the resort and still ordering on the AI.  Problem was they "weren't on track with the program".


----------



## KCI (Nov 11, 2012)

Just checked into Royal Islander and concierge invited us to a noon meeting so she can give us the Royals view of AI.  She said the company doesn't want a lot of misinformation about the program circulating... sounds reasonable to us.  Also will give us info about what will happen with the Mayan.  Any one have any questions they want answered, just post them here and will try to get response from her.


----------



## ilene13 (Nov 11, 2012)

jasm said:


> Ilene, Please let us know if, as has been reported, non AI members are paying the same prices for food as before AI, but now the portions are smaller to keep costs down among AI guests.



We just had lunch at the poolside restaurant in phase 3/4.  I have always liked their shrimp cocktail which was very large and it was 170 pesos.  It is now 99 pesos and in a different type of dish- looked smaller.  I did not order it.  I had a grilled grouper wrap which they never had before, it was the size of all the previous wraps I have had and it was 93 pesos.  I could not finish it.  My husband had fish fajitas.  All was very good. The price seemed the same as last year and it was the same size.  There were free (1 time) refills on the diet coke!
  We had dinner last night at La Palapa as we were exhausted from flying all day.  I had lime soup-- larger and better than in previous years and a hamburger.  The hamburger was AWFUL.  It was like pressed meat.  I told the manager it was disgusting.  Image it is a double burger and it was 169 peso, AI guests have to pay a 40 peso surcharge on it. If I was on AI I would have a fit!   It was very large but again it was terrible.  My husband had quesadillas as an appetizer then a skirt steak sandwich which he sent back twice because it was not made the way the menu described it. Our total bill was about $50US.

My husband always bought the banana bread from the express.  It is 71 pesos--I think up 1 peso from last year.  Last year it had shrunk a bit.  Now with the express closed he ordered it from room service.  It came quickly but it is even smaller than last years.

I will report more as the week goes on.  Saw some AI guests in the Rotunda watching football.


----------



## radmoo (Nov 11, 2012)

Grouper wrap was available when were there in March


----------



## suzannesimon (Nov 11, 2012)

There's a surcharge for a burger?


----------



## pjrose (Nov 11, 2012)

suzannesimon said:


> There's a surcharge for a burger?



But it wasn't just ANY burger, if I recall correctly it was an ANGUS burger.  Yeah, ridiculous.  

I don't remember where that was posted....either Trip Advisor or the Members' Forum on the royal resorts site (?)


----------



## ilene13 (Nov 11, 2012)

suzannesimon said:


> There's a surcharge for a burger?



Yes and it was disgusting.  The burgers must have been pre processed frozen pattis.  The burger was cut in half when they served it and it looked gross.


----------



## BoaterMike (Nov 11, 2012)

I don't know that I ever had a burger in Mexico that is identical in taste and texture that I have here in the US.   In addition to the angus burger at RR (yes, there is a surcharge for AI)  I had a Cheeseburger in Paradise yesterday at Margaritaville.  The Margaritaville burger was better, IMO, but it's still not the same that we know.  They seem to be more processed or "flaked and formed" as opposed to the ground meat being formed loosely in to patties that we experience.  

That's one of the reasons that I lean toward chicken or fish when we are in Mexico.  

BTW, anyone here try Alux in Playa?  Talk about something different.  

Mike


----------



## steve1000 (Nov 12, 2012)

BoaterMike said:


> BTW, anyone here try Alux in Playa?  Talk about something different.
> 
> Mike



We tried Alux for dinner. The cave atmosphere is fascinating but the meal was just so-so and overpriced. Because it is so unique I would recommend going for drinks just to see it but go elsewhere for dinner.


----------



## radmoo (Nov 12, 2012)

USA is known for burgers, Mexico, not so much. I would suggest sticking to more indiginous menu selections to avoid disappointment.


----------



## BoaterMike (Nov 12, 2012)

steve1000 said:


> We tried Alux for dinner. The cave atmosphere is fascinating but the meal was just so-so and overpriced. Because it is so unique I would recommend going for drinks just to see it but go elsewhere for dinner.



I agree.  It's unlikely that we would eat dinner there again.  While the atmosphere is unique, service was very good, and the meal presentation was excellent, we'll opt for drinks and then go elsewhere next time.  

One note, there is road construction right in front of the place.   Playa's finest taxi drivers can get you there, but it leads to some interesting navigation.  

Mike


----------



## ilene13 (Nov 12, 2012)

We ate at Alux a few years ago.  The venue was wonderful but the food was terrible.  I too would recommend going just for a drink.  We drove into Playa last night for dinner at El Fogon.  It was excellent as always.  We took the new extension from the RH to 10th Ave North.  What a pleasure it was versus the highway-- much faster too!  Tonight we are going into Puerto Morales for dinner at John Grey's.


----------



## buceo (Nov 12, 2012)

jasm said:


> ...Up until recently, virtually all the reviews on Tripadvisor for the Royal Sands were great...



Almost hate to keep the word "negative" at the top posting spot, but a hamburger aside it's simply not the case.  The RH & RS combined (who have AI) run 72% excellent overall, so far Nov 4-11 there are 20 TA posts 17 of the 20 are excellent (85%).  What the future holds I am not predicting, just pointing out the way things are.  If I have these numbers wrong, please correct me.


----------



## sbrower (Nov 16, 2012)

So maybe everything is okay?  We have several posts from people who said they were going to meetings (but didn't report back) and people who said next door neighbors were on AI (but didn't report back).  Hopefully "no news is good news"?


----------



## KCI (Nov 16, 2012)

We went to the meet w/concierge, who gave us a lot of double talk...she stated, after I asked directly, that AI people could eat at any property... that is not so.  They can eat at the Sands, Hacienda Sisal, Capt. Cove and the specialty restaurant at the Mayan..not the regular restaurants at the tri Royals.  A waiter at LaPalapa at the Mayan said people who come from the Sands on the shuttle get really upset when they find out they have to pay to eat at the tri royals...I think the Royals are really screwing up a good thing by this AI stuff.  I have yet to meet an owner who is in favor of this despite the fact we don't have to do AI.


----------



## pjrose (Nov 17, 2012)

KCI said:


> We went to the meet w/concierge, who gave us a lot of double talk...she stated, after I asked directly, that AI people could eat at any property... that is not so.  They can eat at the Sands, Hacienda Sisal, Capt. Cove and the specialty restaurant at the Mayan..not the regular restaurants at the tri Royals.  A waiter at LaPalapa at the Mayan said people who come from the Sands on the shuttle get really upset when they find out they have to pay to eat at the tri royals...I think the Royals are really screwing up a good thing by this AI stuff.  I have yet to meet an owner who is in favor of this despite the fact we don't have to do AI.



Hmmm... I could have sworn that the Royal Resort site  USED TO SAY all the restaurants, but I just checked and it doesn't.  Maybe I was wrong.


----------



## Phydeaux (Nov 17, 2012)

KCI said:


> We went to the meet w/concierge, who gave us a lot of double talk...she stated, after I asked directly, that AI people could eat at any property... that is not so.  They can eat at the Sands, Hacienda Sisal, Capt. Cove and the specialty restaurant at the Mayan..not the regular restaurants at the tri Royals.  A waiter at LaPalapa at the Mayan said people who come from the Sands on the shuttle get really upset when they find out they have to pay to eat at the tri royals...I think the Royals are really screwing up a good thing by this AI stuff.  *I have yet to meet an owner who is in favor of this despite the fact we don't have to do AI*.



That's because the vast majority of us purchased at the Royal Resorts because they were *not* AI. They've lost their identity, and founding principles. They've become the antithesis of what they were designed, intended, sold and promoted as. Who wouldn't be upset? 

Again I ask, where is the money going??? Maintenance fees went up AGAIN for 2013!! 

Side note - wouldn't you love to meet a member or two on the Royal Resorts Advisory Committee? These folks must all live under the federal protection program, and wear fake mustaches and wigs. A free vacation for them, and how do you like their representation?


----------



## buceo (Nov 17, 2012)

*TA reviews, last count 86% Excellent*

The end of Oct to present TA reviews of RH/RS still excellent, (my count 37/43) what 3 weeks now into the new AI program?  Personally I think they'll get even better at providing the AI as time goes. These first few months should be the worst of it.
I'm not upset by this addition, I think it is something nobody wanted to do, but they needed to do.  The "cheap trader/spend no money on-site" vacationer was becoming all too common and too much of an expense. Those units now are occupied by people who paid for the package or sit empty, either way it's better financially for the resort. More importantly it brings in new faces they can try and sell weeks to.
I'm not expecting them to be making money at this yet, certainly there were start up costs.  Giving all the food and drink one wants for $100/day is not an obvious money maker until it's run efficiently and my guess they are not there yet.


----------



## KarenLK (Nov 17, 2012)

*Advisory councils*

I had expressed interest in the Advisory Council at VCI if and when they ever get enough members. I was told that it council members paid their own airfare. I know one person who was on the old council and the comment was that they just rubber stamp, so why bother, especially if it is on your dime.


----------



## Phydeaux (Nov 17, 2012)

KarenLK said:


> I had expressed interest in the Advisory Council at VCI if and when they ever get enough members. I was told that it council members paid their own airfare. I know one person who was on the old council and the comment was that they just rubber stamp, so why bother, especially if it is on your dime.



Yes, airfare is of course on their dime. Although they're provided villas at no cost. If you're flying on FF miles, and eating the freebie meals provided by the council, that equates to a nearly free vacation. You have to pay for your food at home too, not to mention utilities. 

Rubber stamp is exactly what they are.

I'd LOVE to hear from just one of them.... Just once. Waiting...........................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................


----------



## KarenLK (Nov 18, 2012)

And who knows how long it will be before VCI has a council, since there is no definitive answer as to what percentage of the resort has been sold. And we cannot count "moves" or "upgrades" as real sales, can we?


----------



## jasm (Nov 18, 2012)

pj rose - I think the issue is that AI people are told that they have access to all the Royals, so it is reasonable that they would expect that if they spend the day at the tri Royals or VCI, they can eat there.  It's easy to understand why they would be upset that they've paid $105 each for the day's food and drink, but have to pay on top of that for something to eat or drink at the sister resort to which they were told they have access.


----------



## suzannesimon (Nov 18, 2012)

buceo said:


> The end of Oct to present TA reviews of RH/RS still excellent, (my count 37/43) what 3 weeks now into the new AI program?  Personally I think they'll get even better at providing the AI as time goes. These first few months should be the worst of it.
> I'm not upset by this addition, I think it is something nobody wanted to do, but they needed to do.  The "cheap trader/spend no money on-site" vacationer was becoming all too common and too much of an expense. Those units now are occupied by people who paid for the package or sit empty, either way it's better financially for the resort. More importantly it brings in new faces they can try and sell weeks to.
> I'm not expecting them to be making money at this yet, certainly there were start up costs.  Giving all the food and drink one wants for $100/day is not an obvious money maker until it's run efficiently and my guess they are not there yet.





I don't understand why "cheap trader/spend no money on-site" at the Royals is such a negative when Royal owners are allowed to be "cheap traders" at Marriotts, Hyatts and hundreds of other II resorts.  I don't know if this will affect the trading value of the Royals or not, but it seems to me that the owners would look at it entirely differently if they were only allowed to trade into other AI resorts.


----------



## buceo (Nov 18, 2012)

suzannesimon said:


> I don't understand why "cheap trader/spend no money on-site" at the Royals is such a negative when Royal owners are allowed to be "cheap traders" at Marriotts, Hyatts and hundreds of other II resorts...


It's a negative wherever it occurs.  If I buy a Hacienda as a cheap trader, ie MF is $1,000 and I only use it to trade to a Hawaii $1,500-2,000 MF (off season, whenever) and I don't spend any money at that Hawaii resort I'm a net negative on their system, burning through their AC, hot water linens, general wear & tear etc. I use what apparently costs $2,000 just to maintain and don't put anywhere near that into their system.  Granted it is how the ts system is set up, but as most things if too many people do it the system can't support it.  If this helps the Royals bottom line I'd look for others to follow.  Reminds me, have I not heard of some resorts charging for extras, general surcharge, etc.  This is the same thing, just how they decided to do it. I've never traded outside the Royals, so no personal experience, just have looked into it a few times.


----------



## kenie (Nov 18, 2012)

buceo said:


> It's a negative wherever it occurs.  If I buy a Hacienda as a cheap trader, ie MF is $1,000 and I only use it to trade to a Hawaii $1,500-2,000 MF (off season, whenever) and I don't spend any money at that Hawaii resort I'm a net negative on their system, burning through their AC, hot water linens, general wear & tear etc. I use what apparently costs $2,000 just to maintain and don't put anywhere near that into their system.  Granted it is how the ts system is set up, but as most things if too many people do it the system can't support it.  If this helps the Royals bottom line I'd look for others to follow.  Reminds me, have I not heard of some resorts charging for extras, general surcharge, etc.  This is the same thing, just how they decided to do it. I've never traded outside the Royals, so no personal experience, just have looked into it a few times.



You may not have put the $2000 that it costs to maintain the system, but somebody, the owner, did.
Does the hawaii owner spend any more money on site than the haciendas owner who exchanges in??
The resort already has their slice off the top. 
The problem at the Royals, probably most other resorts, is that the owners can't or won't pay the prices they charge for on-site services. If you want me, who has a full kitchen to eat at your restaurants on a consistant basis, make it worth my while to do so.


----------



## buceo (Nov 18, 2012)

kenie said:


> You may not have put the $2000 that it costs to maintain the system, but somebody, the owner, did.
> Does the hawaii owner spend any more money on site than the haciendas owner who exchanges in??
> The resort already has their slice off the top.
> The problem at the Royals, probably most other resorts, is that the owners can't or won't pay the prices they charge for on-site services. If you want me, who has a full kitchen to eat at your restaurants on a consistant basis, make it worth my while to do so.



Yes that's right, "the owner did" to your first two points.  That I believe is the Royals number one point in this.  To increase sales.
Your third point, you (Kenie) are an owner so the AI is irrelevant to where and what you eat.  You can do whatever you want.  Personally we eat and drink on-site a good deal, some great stuff, very convenient.  For dinners we more often than not walk/ride off site.  Though our eating habits are not of interest to anybody.  But again as owners it's a non issue.
My take is their "slice" is bigger if a unit stays empty than be occupied by a non member group not spending on-site and not a potential buyer of a week.

But more importantly the AI brings a large yet untapped potential customer base, but while there as non members they are spending on-site.

In the crazy world of ts's it just makes enough sense to me for them to try this, whether or not it will work has yet to play out.  If it's worse than before, they stop it, but I think they are going to give it their all before that happens.


----------



## KCI (Nov 18, 2012)

We were told the AI fee is $110 pp for non owners, $90 for owners if they opt for the AI program.  We were also told it is not unlimited alcohol...there is an allotment for am, lunch and dinner and if you don't use your am allotment it is not carried over to lunch and dinner...supposedly that is their way of curbing over indulging..so if it is not unlimited, how can it be all inclusive...I think they are trying to work out the kinks at the Sands and Haciendas before introducing it to the rest of the resorts.  When we were told that the members requested the Royals to go AI we asked why....well, according to our concierge, non members were able to take advantage of all the amenities that members have without having to pay the members fees,etc.  I pointed out that that's what timesharing is all about...I trade my unit and my amenities to go somewhere and use someone elses unit and amenities and someone uses mine but she didn't seem to understand the concept or refused to do so.  My feeling is that they are simply trying to fill up their restaurants...we ate in the Tradewinds at R.C. on Fajita nite and there were no more than 6 tables occupied...spoke to a waiter at laPalapa and they are worried what will happen to them when RM closes next year...we noticed a lot of cost cutting...no cold bottles of water upon arrival, no more sand in the ashtrays with the Royal emblem imprinted in them (now we just look at cigars or cigarette butts) empty drink glasses left around the place long after the outside activities have stopped...ect.  What's next?


----------



## sbrower (Nov 18, 2012)

I think there is a lot of misinformation getting spread.  I don't see anything in the rules that would allow a "per se" limit on the amount of alcohol and that would not meet the AI definition.  Different people have very different limits on when they are a potential problem.  

I also don't understand people saying "the portions are smaller because of AI."  That seems like it would only hurt the regular guests.  If I am on AI, and if the appetizer is too small, then I will order 3 appetizers.


----------



## pjrose (Nov 19, 2012)

jasm said:


> pj rose - I think the issue is that AI people are told that they have access to all the Royals, so it is reasonable that they would expect that if they spend the day at the tri Royals or VCI, they can eat there.  It's easy to understand why they would be upset that they've paid $105 each for the day's food and drink, but have to pay on top of that for something to eat or drink at the sister resort to which they were told they have access.



Tht makes sense; I'd feel the same.


----------



## buceo (Nov 19, 2012)

KCI said:


> ...I pointed out that that's what timesharing is all about...I trade my unit and my amenities to go somewhere and use someone elses unit and amenities and someone uses mine...



Ah "the good ol' days" when that was done for vacationing at & enjoying different resorts, maybe then even buying in to said resort.  Unfortunately, it's evolved for many (too many is what the resort seems to be saying) into scrutinizing the dollar/tpu amount.  People seem to agree it's wrong when members default on their MFs causing others to pick up the tab, but at least those that default are not also at the resort using its resources.  The dollar/tpu traveler is, by design, also not paying the resort's fee and is using the resort's resources.  That's the whole point of making $/tpu travel successful, getting others to pay the higher fees for their travels (which yes the member is unless an unsold unit).  The system does allow it and when taken advantage of there's a problem that can result in it actually costing the resort (& members) money. So that gets addressed somehow, maybe this it, we'll see.  Now, if the dollar/tpu traveler would just spend some money on-site there wouldn't be a problem. That said, I still think the main goal of this AI program is to bring in a new customer base for sales.


----------



## MuranoJo (Nov 19, 2012)

buceo said:


> Ah "the good ol' days" when that was done for vacationing at & enjoying different resorts, maybe then even buying in to said resort.  Unfortunately, it's evolved for many (too many is what the resort seems to be saying) into scrutinizing the dollar/tpu amount.  People seem to agree it's wrong when members default on their MFs causing others to pick up the tab, but at least those that default are not also at the resort using its resources.  *The dollar/tpu traveler is, by design, also not paying the resort's fee and is using the resort's resources. * That's the whole point of making $/tpu travel successful, getting others to pay the higher fees for their travels (which yes the member is unless an unsold unit).  The system does allow it and when taken advantage of there's a problem that can result in it actually costing the resort (& members) money. So that gets addressed somehow, maybe this it, we'll see.  Now, if the dollar/tpu traveler would just spend some money on-site there wouldn't be a problem. That said, I still think the main goal of this AI program is to bring in a new customer base for sales.



You're losing me on this one, Glenn.
First of all, regardless if it's RCI TPUs or II unknown trade power, the exchanger has paid fees at his/her resort, and the exchange company has assigned value at deposit, whether we agree with it or not.  (If people don't agree with it, they shouldn't exchange.  If the resorts don't agree with it, they shouldn't allow exchanges.)

Aren't most Royals units exchanged through II, so TPU doesn't come into play?

Of course any of the MX resorts who provide full on-site services would love nothing better than to have a captive audience for the full stay.
But forcing people to spend money on-site, IMO, kinda knocks out the cultural value of visiting MX and exploring outside the resort.  So the question becomes for any owner/exchanger/renter:  Are you traveling to visit an AI resort, or are you traveling to visit MX?


----------



## buceo (Nov 20, 2012)

I was trying to avoid the term cheap trader, so used the $/tpu phrase, incorrectly for II, my mistake.  I'll try again, BTW thanks for reading, I'll not use either phrase this time.  I think what you mention; "not allowing exchanges" in one sense is what they are up to...while still, however, allowing exchanges they're adding this big caveat. Yes the MF has been paid (just assume it's a sold unit), so the developer has that money in hand already, done deal, unit expenses are covered.

Now if a guest then comes who spends very little on-site and has no intention of buying, ie no prospective customers are coming then it's better the unit stays empty (maybe even a lot better).  The number of guests fitting that description has become too great, that's my take*.  There is good reason to ask "why should I buy", others pay the fees and I can go for less.  Good question.  With the system as is the question remains, now there is this answer, if you buy all the potential negatives you mention go away.  Even more importantly there is a huge number that want AI (AI is not seen as a negative, but a positive), Royals currently lose all those visitors that do WANT to spend on-site. And all are fresh faces for the sales room.  Once a member, what you do is totally up to you, their main business is selling timeshares it's all about supporting sales.  This just makes sense to me, guess I am in the minority.
The subject line of this thread is just still so wrong.  TA reviews are still fantastic to Nov 19.
_*I've not seen the bar graph, would like to.  Guest origination on the X axis, $'s spent per week on the Y.  They have that & this mandatory non member AI is what they've come up with  _


----------



## Phydeaux (Nov 20, 2012)

This really isn't too difficult to understand. 

Years ago, the Royal Resorts allowed their restaurant prices to escalate to the point that it drove away members, and many guests. Why did they allow this to happen? That's open to debate, but they did. The prices for this area, _Mexico_, do not reflect value, and thus customers, most of us, simply stopped patronizing the on-site restaurants, as can be proven by a walk past any of them on your next visit. Or, take a look a the RM webcam directed at La Palapa, any time of year, any meal time. Empty.

Now, why hasn't management recognized their error, and simply brought the prices down to reflect the value of this area? That too is open to debate - personally, I think macho actually plays a part. They may feel cornered, and that they somehow can't admit they made this error. 

They're trying to recoup their losses, and just went about it all wrong.  If oOother TS resorts can budget and operate their resorts using the steady revenue stream of member maintenance fees, why can't the Royal Resorts? Because of the outrageous high wages they need to pay staff??  Because of the incredibly high overhead costs of food and goods?? 

It's mismanagement, plain and obvious.

Addendum - as far as staff claiming the AI program is to help differentiate members from renters, this is something I met with management face to face to discuss, and attempted to convey to the rubber stamp, er.. Advisory committee, but again, they got it wrong. I proposed for years that the RR needed to differentiate and provide incentives to members in the form of price breaks and services. When renters are treated identically to members, where is the incentive to 1. become a member and 2. to remain a member? Hellooo.... There is none. But rather than adopt some suggestions on these price breaks and services, they implemented this failed excuse for an AI. 

Then, we also talked about revenue generators and expense reduction. I provided several dozen means of generating revenues and reducing costs to help offset the escalating MF's. Were any even _TRIED_? no. It's very clear management is not listening. If I saw management at minimum _trying_ I wouldn't be of this opinion. To me, increase in MF *=* management failure. Period.


----------



## Tfish (Nov 20, 2012)

These are some excellent points.

Mike


----------



## suzannesimon (Nov 20, 2012)

Also, agreed. I believe that the AI will hurt their potential customer base as well.  I was considering doing a presentation and possibly buying a week. I won't exchange into it now , pay nearly $3,000 + give up my Hyatt or Marriott for 4 people to stay in a full-size condo with kitchen for a week.  I like AI, but would prefer a purpose-built resort like Sandals, Beaches, etc. that includes lots of good restaurants and activities.  I don't need a full-size condo in that case.


----------



## moonlightgraham (Nov 20, 2012)

At the RC now and must say in my six visits since 2009, and 2nd straight Thanksgiving week, the Tri's are as crowded as I've seen them  in my limited experience. I think this says something about the slowly improving US economy as we came on Friday to avoid sky high Saturday airfares and the flights and airport were packed on Friday too. 

Can't add much to the AI debate but we ate at Captains Cove last night and noticed about a third the menu was surcharge for AI.  I can't imagine that will go over well with committed AI-types. But again the place was as crowded as I've ever seen it in perhaps 4 or 5 dining experiences. 

PS got to see a late season turtle hatching and release on Saturday night just outside our beachfront unit. What a thrill for our kids. It'll be the highlight of the week I'm sure!


----------



## Phydeaux (Nov 20, 2012)

What management has succeeded in doing here is ostracising its members. It doesn't take a rocket surgeon to understand you don't increase sales by pi$$ING off your loyal customer base. They should have followed the model of successful businesses that have a loyal base of customers, something they once had, and leverage it to increase sales. Reduce expenses, increase revenues, adopt viable member suggestions, keep your members happy, and they'll be your best salesforce.


----------



## suzannesimon (Nov 20, 2012)

They could learn from some other timeshares I've been to that give a 10-20% discount to owners for everything purchased within the resort.


----------



## buceo (Nov 20, 2012)

Thanks moonlight for the first hand report, others have reported the same, good crowds. Watching this unfold is very interesting, reading predictions not so interesting especially when the common argument seems to be "I want it for less", well get in line, me too.  Since this thread I am now watching the TA reviews for first hand feedback, have I mentioned they are not negative  As a member I see this as a pretty big change, but not a big negative or a mistake. Time will tell and pretty soon, but not this soon.  The Royals run a great timeshare, they are making changes, more probably to come.


----------



## sbrower (Nov 20, 2012)

I will be an exchanger (II) in December.  I just called Royal Resorts and they actually sent me pdf's of the menus for Royal Sands (the non-specialty restaurants).  It doesn't look too bad to me.  The Royal Hamburger (even at Char Hut) has a 40 peso supplement, but that is the only thing at Char Hut with a supplement.  At Las Pulpas it appears that all cocktails are included, and even some decent liquors (there are others which are a supplement price).  So far the menus match (or exceed) the printed rules.


----------



## buceo (Nov 20, 2012)

sbrower said:


> ...The Royal Hamburger (even at Char Hut) has a 40 peso supplement...



Beware the burger, see post #24 this thread.


----------



## ilene13 (Nov 20, 2012)

I have a problem that people are saying that the RR have out priced themselves in the restaurants.  We just came back from the RH.  We ate lunch everyday at the poolside restaurants.  I usually ate a wrap or shrimp cocktail and my husband either had a wrap or fajitas.  We both had soda.  Our daily lunch bill came to about $25-$30.  We go to Aruba every Christmas and New Year's.  We again eat lunch at the beachside restaurant (Marriott Ocean Club).  For basically the same lunch items our bill is usually about $40.  Buffalo is known for charbroiled hot dogs--when we go to Ted's our lunch bill is about $25.  I do not think the prices at the RR are exorbitant.  I guess it is what you are used to!


----------



## Phydeaux (Nov 20, 2012)

ilene13 said:


> I have a problem that people are saying that the RR have out priced themselves in the restaurants.  We just came back from the RH.  We ate lunch everyday at the poolside restaurants.  I usually ate a wrap or shrimp cocktail and my husband either had a wrap or fajitas.  We both had soda.  Our daily lunch bill came to about $25-$30.  We go to Aruba every Christmas and New Year's.  We again eat lunch at the beachside restaurant (Marriott Ocean Club).  For basically the same lunch items our bill is usually about $40.  Buffalo is known for charbroiled hot dogs--when we go to Ted's our lunch bill is about $25.  I do not think the prices at the RR are exorbitant.  I guess it is what you are used to!




You didn't mention your dinner prices.....

You're comparing apples & oranges. Mexico is not Aruba.

I don't pay the same prices for lunch in downtown Scottsdale as I do in Mechanicsburg.

$16 USD for a buffet breakfast, in _Mexico_, is overpriced. $21 USD for a Mexican buffet is overpriced. 

When I can find outstanding meals at a small fraction within several miles of the resorts, I beg to ask, why?? Please, don't tell me I'm paying more because I'm in this resort - I already paid to be in this resort. I'm now paying annually for amenities that I don't use!

Please, if you want to support the hyper inflated prices of the captive audience at the RR, you need to do a bit better.


----------



## ilene13 (Nov 20, 2012)

We do not eat dinner at the resorts.  We go to many different restaurants from La Parrilla, to Harry's etc.  We spend anywhere from $30 to $100 for dinner for two.  So, I am not encouraging or supporting their prices.  Once again I do not consider them inflated.


----------



## pjrose (Nov 20, 2012)

*prices at the Royals*

Some are inflated, some are not.  The breakfast buffet when it was 8.95 or thereabouts seemed fairly priced.  Is it $16 now?  Yikes!

There are various nightly specials at the restaurants, often in the $13-15 range, with entree, soup or salad, veg, starch.  They are fairly priced, IMHO.  I also think the prices for a very good club sandwich or grouper sandwich poolside or at the beach are fair; about $8.  Yes they're more than off-site, but it's convenient when lounging around and I like that they customize however I want.  

Many of the prices at La Palapa at the RM and at Paco's Tacos at the RI are very good.  On the other hand, the poolside BBQ nights are not very good and are overpriced.  Drinks and desserts we don't get - I think those tend to be overpriced moneymakers everywhere, in the U.S. as well.  

The Express prices have gone up and/or the portions down; I'm not too happy with that, but still, I love the convenience and relaxation of dinner on my own terrace.  

When I see the near-empty restaurants I think of the staff who are not earning tips.  That was cited as something that would improve with AI, though I wonder whether that will come to pass if/when the AI clientele increases.  Will the hard-working staff benefit, or just have more customers to feed with little change in tips?


----------



## buceo (Nov 20, 2012)

Phydeaux said:


> ...Mexico is not Aruba.
> 
> I don't pay the same prices for lunch in downtown Scottsdale as I do in Mechanicsburg.
> 
> ...



Why?? oh maybe because places don't purify their water like we do, AC running at those places you like the cheap food at, unlimited hot water, security guards on the beach?... that's what our MF's go for (simple examples) not the price of our grouper.  "Several miles", please load Google Earth & give accurate numbers. "Outstanding Meals" please link to TA reviews.

Irene didn't say the same price, she said she pays like 30% less than in Aruba (we know they are different, thanks for the economics lesson). No need to do "better", that's way off,  I don't think you are reading what she wrote. The "same price" reference is meaningless.  "Hyper inflated" what?, we could argue non stop if we didn't have anything better to do.

Enjoy your vacations expecting to pay diner prices at a 4-5 star on the beach. We paid for the 2BR, 2BA unit as far as I know, restaurant meals were not included.  

So let's say I am on the ski slope in CO at my timeshare and I scream at the mgmt, "hey I can a go a couple miles away and get better prices, what do you think they'll say...after they stop laughing?


----------



## Phydeaux (Nov 21, 2012)

buceo said:


> Why?? oh maybe because places don't purify their water like we do, AC running at those places you like the cheap food at, unlimited hot water, security guards on the beach?... that's what our MF's go for (simple examples) not the price of our grouper.  "Several miles", please load Google Earth & give accurate numbers. "Outstanding Meals" please link to TA reviews.
> 
> Irene didn't say the same price, she said she pays like 30% less than in Aruba (we know they are different, thanks for the economics lesson). No need to do "better", that's way off,  I don't think you are reading what she wrote. The "same price" reference is meaningless.  "Hyper inflated" what?, we could argue non stop if we didn't have anything better to do.
> 
> ...




Look Buceo, if you're content paying the ridiculous meal prices in place at the Royal Resorts, you just keep right on patronizing them. I, and many others, will take our business elsewhere. There isn't an argument in the world that could convince me these prices reflect value, and I know I'm not alone.  

By the way, my wife & I have lunch right on the beach in Playa for $6 USD, including drinks. Don't know where? You need a link?? No, you need to get out of the compound and explore a bit. 

Ah yes, I remember the days when I was a RR cheerleader too....

And I'm not talking about prices across the board. We enjoy eating some lunches on site too. I'm talking about the dinner and drink prices that should include a sign to put around your neck that says 'SUCKER'.


----------



## buceo (Nov 21, 2012)

Phydeaux said:


> ... No, you need to...



Wait let me first add this to my "what people should & shouldn't do while on vacation list", oh darn can't find it guess I threw it away, it got too long & was found to be completely irrelevant. 

Now back to the OPs "negative reviews" post, new informative TA review this a.m. RHs, exchangers on the AI.  Very Good over all rating, a seasoned reviewer.
"My husband and I traded a time share to stay here for our anniversary during the week of 11/10-17/2012. We opted for the all inclusive package, which costs US $105/person/day..."
oh and they went to playa
"The people were super aggressive and we did not feel safe there at all."

Everyone has different experiences.


----------



## maja651 (Nov 21, 2012)

Well, we were at the Haciendas weeks 43 and 44.  We thought the prices for the lunch/ beach menu were on par and of great vaue.  Grouper sandwich with fruit or fries was I think 100 pesos.  How is that a bad deal?  They also had a very good, home made breaded chicken breast sandwich.   I am not normally into breaded meat, but OMG that sandwich  was good, especially with a hangover. . I believe it was about 120 pesos and also included fruit or fries.  We didn't eat at the on site restaurants for dinner, but then again we have hardly ever done that.  We tend to be lazy on vacation and prefer to either eat in the room for dinner, or if we make the effort to get all dolled up, we go into Playa.  Our view is, why get dressed, make up, hair, etc. just to eat on site?  Anyway,since 1999 we have always had that mind set, so I can't say much on the dinner prices.  I will say we MUCH appreciated the expanded room service menu that came with the new AI implementation.  

Michelle


----------



## sbrower (Nov 21, 2012)

From the reviews, the people who actually stayed on AI seem relatively happy.  From the menus I got by email (as an upcoming AI exchanger) I am relatively happy.  The devil is in the details.  AI includes tips.  Will management actually pay enough tips to the staff to make them happy about AI customers or will they feel that AI customers are a drain on their income?  And will there be lots of weird exceptions?  Because a resort isn't very pleasant if you spend a bunch of your time arguing.  On the other hand, if my family and I have a good time, and try a few different restaurants (we have several to choose from) and if we get into Sunday brunch without a hassle, then I will have received what I wanted and I will have a good reaction.


----------



## Phydeaux (Nov 21, 2012)

What do you get when you conceive, design, plan, build, market, advertise and sell a product......but then abandon everything...






[/IMG]


----------



## Phydeaux (Nov 21, 2012)

Oh, by the way, as a member, I couldn't care less how much renters care for the AI program. Why not ask a few *members* how they feel about it? Cart in front of the horse ring a bell with anyone here? 

================

Didn't mean to quote myself, but see no means of deleting this. Mods, could you instruct, or merge please? Thanks


----------



## buceo (Nov 21, 2012)

Phydeaux said:


> ...Didn't mean to quote myself, but see no means of deleting this.



Nice art work, I think that's a pine laminate board, but those pegs look to be real pine.  Nice photo.  You constantly quote yourself, we are used to it. No problem.

I was expecting a much larger font at this point in your posts, I'm a little disappointed, I'll quote you this time; "you need to do a bit better".


----------



## buceo (Nov 21, 2012)

Again trying to get this thread back to the subject; TA reports, a new one gave it a terrible, very few of those ever.  They did get sick that's really a shame, RHs I think:
We just got back from Royal Hacienda yesterday. Beautiful beaches and a pretty property. That's just about where the good part ends...

BTW I am adding, fido would you start a new thread with all your issues, square pegs/round holes etc. this thread is about the new AI and TA reviews, thanks.


----------



## dennisokey (Nov 22, 2012)

*Royal AI*

Just got back from Cancun at the Royal Caribbean. Mandatory AI where applicable starts in week 44 - 2013. Attended the informational meeting. Rep said that this is the way it will work in future for all Royal Resort properties. Here is what was said:

Owners of any Royals units will not be required at any time to do AI. One exception, if an owner rents directly from Royal resorts for a extra week they will be able to rent only one additional week per year during the year without going AI.

Renters of units directly from owners will not be required to go AI at any time.

Renters directly from Royal resorts that are not owners will be required to go AI. I did not think to ask about rental less than 4 days. Required AI is just one part of the rent. The rental cost will also include an additional fee (explained to me as approximately equal to the annual weekly fee prorated for the number of days of stay)

II Trades, I believe it will be handled the same way as rents directly from Royal resorts but no additional fee. However I not sure exactly of this option.  

AI is optional for anyone but if selected is it must be for a minimum of 4 continuous days. 

I did see several menus that referred to a surcharge for higher priced items. Example was the Conquistador had two menu items marked with a $10 and $15 surcharge.


----------



## BoaterMike (Nov 22, 2012)

dennisokey said:


> II Trades, I believe it will be handled the same way as rents directly from Royal resorts but no additional fee. However I not sure exactly of this option.



To this point the understanding is that all II trades will be required AI unless its a RR member.  

From the RR site:



> Non-members of Royal Resorts who are exchanging into The Royal Sands or The Royal Haciendas through an International Exchange company must purchase the REFINE All-Inclusive Package for the duration of their stay



My understanding based on discussions a couple of weeks ago is that there have not been dates set for any other properties moving to AI.  We're seeing various interpretations depending on who you talk to.  

Mike


----------



## Phydeaux (Nov 22, 2012)

buceo said:


> BTW I am adding, fido would you start a new thread with all your issues, square pegs/round holes etc. this thread is about the new AI and TA reviews, thanks.



No thanks.

The title of this thread Is: *Royals AI - Here Come the Negative Reviews
*

You are attempting to support and bolster this loser experiment, and I am pointing out it's failures. I'll continue to do so, right here, thank you. 

By the way Bucko, out of the thousands upon thousands of RR members, how would you like finding just one to speak up and share the poll that RR management claims they sent to RR members? Remember, management claimed to have inquired about our opinion of an AI program that suggested we were in favor of this AI blunder? How about the questionnaire itself?  You can't produce it. Why? Because there never was one.

How do you support the fact the RR management lied directly to it's members by suggesting this? They never consulted members prior to this unless it was the Rubber Stamp committee behind closed doors at their free vacation, titled Advisory Committee meeting. 

I'll be happy to retract that when I hear from some of the supposed members that received this phantom poll.


----------



## buceo (Nov 22, 2012)

Phydeaux said:


> I am pointing out it's failures. I'll continue to do so, right here, thank you.



OK it was just a suggestion, you enjoy yourself.  BTW "this failure" can you let us know when it actually is one, not just your opinion stated as fact.

Hate to change the doomsday tone, but anybody there (or has been before) for AI Thanksgiving dinner (yes, as in eating on-site).  How do they do Thanksgiving there, AI or otherwise?


----------



## moonlightgraham (Nov 22, 2012)

At the Tri's the Tradewinds and Cayo Largo are offering a Thanksgiving  Buffett with three seatings priced at $30USD with kids half price and under 6 free. The RM La Palapa will have BBQ and regular menu. Captains Cove is offering a Thanksgiving meal as well (not buffet) for around $40pp.  Not sure what the Sands AI is offering but we will be there is afternoon and will try to report back. 

BY THE WAY, they've been working furiously to finish the new outdoor seating area at Tradewinds (across from pool bar) for tonight's Thanksgiving dinner. Looks like they'll make it and it looks nice too!


----------



## buceo (Nov 22, 2012)

Thanks moonlight for the buffet info, I just pasted part of your response to new MX thread asking about prices, hope you don't mind.  I really don't know what their usual dinner buffet price is, I don't get the buffets myself.


----------



## moonlightgraham (Nov 23, 2012)

I think $30pp for dinner buffet is close to going rate. La Palapa Mexican Dinner Buffet is the same price but you do get a show with that and unlimited margaritas (albeit very weak).  My problem with Thanksgiving buffet was that non-alcoholic drinks (tea, coffee, etc) were extra. $3 coffee and $3 iced tea added another $20 that I wasn't expecting. Shoulda asked I suppose but assumed tea and coffee were included.......wrong!


----------



## buceo (Nov 23, 2012)

moonlightgraham said:


> I think $30pp for dinner buffet is close to going rate.  My problem with Thanksgiving buffet was that non-alcoholic drinks (tea, coffee, etc) were extra. $3



Still exactly the same here in MD, coffee was extra at $2.95.


----------



## mtpdave (Nov 24, 2012)

*Just returned from RH Thanksgiving week..*

Hey Y'all,

We are owners of 2 spring weeks at Royal Haciendas and have just returned from our second consecutive Thanksgiving there.  We trade in a week when Easter does not fall on our week.

Occupancy was at 65% and that was apparently due to the extremely high airfares and possibly due to the all inclusive fees. When we inquired about the AI numbers, two different staff noted that only 8 guests were on the AI (which is known as the Refine Pkg)

We did see some midday AI and member rowdiness on Sunday (when we arrived) but that was all. But there were members participating as well.

I did ask a salesman who took us to lunch about the fact that food and bev does not appear on the annual report (income statement).  He informed me that this is because the food services, spa, diving, etc are all concessions.  

He also said (some sales people will say anything) that the resort only has implemented AI to compete in the marketplace and that it really helps weed out the Interval members who "trade up" into the Royals and then do not spend money.. Royals offer far more than some other timeshares and gain nothing from opening inventory to these folks (IMO, the have  the system figured out)...

I believe airfares are to blame.  Many members are struggling with the new reality of really high airfares and are just not going down to enjoy their week.  
The resorts experience lower occupancy and the food bev folks are struggling to make ends meet.. 

I believe the real question is "Who exactly is the business that runs the food and beverage?"    The salesman did say that it is the same company with the concession for all of the Royals.  I have been told that Thomas Moore is owned by some previous higher ups from the Royals' management team. So a very close tie probably exists and maybe now at the possible expense of members.   

To me, lower arrival will drive members to sell their units thus lowering values, driving defaults, and further driving up maintenance fees.  I hope this is not the case!

The Royal Haciendas is a top notch vacation and we hope it remains that way.  I do see the dilemma for the food and bev people and I hope they figure it out...

On another note... apparently there was a pretty major scuffle at one of the pool bars at the Sands on Wed 11-21 with chairs being thrown about and the police being called in..  I was told this escalated and went on for some time.. 
Anybody know if it involved AI users? If so, it may help management reconsider the AI.

Sorry for any jumbled thoughts!


----------



## buceo (Nov 24, 2012)

Thanks for the on-site report.  Great info.

The incident you heard I believe is described on TA by those who were accosted, “POOR SECURITY!!!! WILL NEVER RETURN!” , Nov 21 post. Per the post, NOT described as an AI issue.


----------



## troysers (Nov 25, 2012)

How would the Royal Haciendas or Sands "weed out" interval members who "trade in who don't spend money" from those that do?

I don't own, but we have traded in for years (off and on), never leave the resort and have spent thousands of dollars over the years from restaurants, spa services, excursions, tips to staff (at spa, bartenders, maids, etc,...) which I would have thought would have helped with containing maintenance fees (but perhaps I'm wrong if this money just goes to concessions)

I have no interest in AI (not a whole lot of control (on the eating more than the drinking lol)) so I will spend my dollars elsewhere.  Not sure if at end of day it is in best interest of members.

One last point and that is I don't drink alcohol and have always appreciated the calmer atmosphere at the royals.  If I were to make another timeshare purchase it would have been week 52 at the royals but would not consider purchasing at RH or RS now with AI.  JMHO.

To me part of the solution should have been to charge more reasonable prices at the restaurants to more balance supply and demand.


----------



## suzannesimon (Nov 25, 2012)

I am not a Royal owner but would like to take my extended family there for Christmas next year, as I do now at other locations.  I will rent the TS's I own and then rent directly from Royal owners to bypass the AI.  No way can I afford to pay over $11,000 in AI fees for 15 people.  They will get a fair amount of business from us, but no way will it be $11,000.  I also don't believe for a minute that all exchangers are cheap uptraders.  If 
there is such a glut of units available that just any second -rate timeshare unit can get exchanged into it, then what does that tell you?  I believe that quality units exchange for quality units.  This is a windfall for the  concessions and a windfall for owners who will be able to do private rentals at top dollar, but I don't see a lot of exchangers.  Whether that will hurt the owners' trade ability in II is another question.


----------



## belor (Nov 25, 2012)

Just a few more notes to add to mtpdave's review.

We also just returned from RH for the Thanksgiving week - we also noticed how dead it was at the resort. 65% occupancy would seem high to us - our thought on why it was so dead is that since the resort is not fully sold (anybody know what %?), RH maybe relies on reservations from Royal Reservations more that the other resorts, and with A/I, people may have been priced out. We are not owners at any of the RRs, so this has been the way we have been visiting RH for the Thanksgiving week for the past 3 years. This year we have been following the A/I discussions closely and made sure to reserve the week before A/I reservations went into effect.

We noticed very few wristbands also, though our unit this year was in phase 1, which appears to have more units purchased, and since most people seem to hang at the pool in their phase, we thought there might have been more wristbands in phase 2, but never really got over to that side.

Some other notes:
* When we checked in on Saturday, there was a woman very vocally displaying her displeasure to the reservation desk about the A/I plan - her (oft repeated) complaint was over the liquor included - she thought the selection was awful and felt that the plan was a ripoff. No other complaints or comments were heard.
* I assume the vocal group mtpdave was referring to was the same group (around 15 people) that were drinking at the swimup bar in phase 1 (all with wristbands) Sunday afternoon - My wife and I thought those were new to the resort, but after talking with an owner next to us, she said the group were owners who have been coming for years. According to her, they decided to try the Refine plan due to getting a 50% offer. She said she thought it might have been via Expedia, but didn't know details and I never heard anything more about it later in the week. 
* With A/I, I expected Los Murales to be more crowded, and difficult to get into on Thanksgiving, but we had 6:30 reservations on Thanksgiving and didn't see a wristband in the place and there appeared to be ample empty tables - in fact, the restaurant seemed to be the deadest it has been since we starting having our Thanksgiving dinner there.
* If we hadn't been following the A/I threads, we never would have known there was a difference - portion sizes and drink strength all seemed the same as our past visits.
* We really have enjoyed our Thanksgiving week visits these past three years and have been quite happy with Royal Reservations - cost has been a little bit higher than I could possibly negotiate on Redweek, but not much - and no hassle with rental contracts, etc, and the RR rep (Stephano) has always been very helpful and pretty much told us the room we will get - always giving us top-floor "penthouse" suites. We watched for Thanksgiving weeks on Redweek this year, but there really weren't many (compared to us always renting spring break week at RS), so having RR was a nice option. This forced A/I will potentially cause RR to lose guest like us - we have no interest in buying (unhappy enough of getting stuck with DVC), but we do pay a reasonable rate for the room and RR will lose the $700-$1000 we typically spend at the resort in a week (Thomas Moore, pool bars, Los Murales, kids club). My wife and I are already discussing if we should try out the Mayans for a change next year.
* Not a complaint about A/I or the Royals, but this was the chilliest Thanksgiving week we have yet to experience..  Other than one day, it seemed that the sun really had a problem getting past the clouds.


----------



## buceo (Nov 25, 2012)

belor said:


> Just a few more notes to add to mtpdave's review.
> 
> * I assume the vocal group mtpdave was referring to...
> * If we hadn't been following the A/I threads, we never would have known there was a difference -
> ...


& earlier a post said:
How would the Royal Haciendas or Sands "weed out" interval members who "trade in who don't spend money" from those that do?

Can't see they will be able to weed out anybody.  They will lose some good customers (thanks belor and mtpdave for the detailed trip reports).
Some repeat visitors have seen an increase in occupancy, but certainly not your week at the RHs, more weeks to come, we'll see.  Airfares are certainly an issue.
Are you sure you won't buy, it's where you like to go & when, "no better time to buy than now", as they say.
Bummer you had lousy weather, best solution to bad weather is a two week stay, I always say.


----------



## sbrower (Nov 29, 2012)

A couple of reviews have been posted recently saying that the food is awful (neither made any reference to AI, and they were not very specific about which food/restaurant they were talking about).  As an upcoming II exchanger (therefore mandatory AI) I am concerned about these reviews which seem to be contrary to most other reviews which say that the food is generally good.  It would be a real mistake to implement AI, and then allow the quality of the food to slip, because that would result in terrible reviews which will [possibly] depress the value of the property.  

I hope a few more good reviews come along.


----------



## mtpdave (Nov 29, 2012)

*Regarding food...*

I am, I must admit, an armchair critic when it comes to food.. Sometimes it even gets old to me.  That said, I really think the food at the Royal Haciendas is quite good.  Not dirt cheap but reliably good and fresh and always served to my family with a cheer and appreciation for us as customers.  Be sure to smile and you are sure to get one back!

I did not get to enjoy Los Murales this year but since its opening 3 or so years ago I have always been very impressed.  If there is a better spot around Playa del Carmen, please let me know.

Wake up early (if 7 is early for you)  and enjoy the breakfast buffet.  You get a discount, great healthy stuff to eat and the mornings are just primo!  We alternate between eating the breakfast and lunch buffet day to day.. and usually by the evening we eat light and wind it down and asleep by 9 or 10.  

The poolside grills are good.. we stick with local seafood. Remember that everyday there is a 2 for 1 tasty drink special.. If you don't like your beverage so sweet, just let the server know.. they will happily accomodate you.

Ordering room service, I usually prefer the Mediterranean Plate which is grilled fish, a few veggies and fingerling potatoes.. for about 100 pesos (8 bucks).  It may not even be on the menu but if you request it, they should bring it.

I think some menu items were cheaper this year than last..  and yes of course you can save a few bucks by preparing your own or checking out some stuff in town.. but I recommend eating at the Haciendas.


----------



## sbrower (Nov 30, 2012)

Our upcoming stay has made me more conscious of the low quality of information available on bulletin boards.  There is a new review of Royal Sands which gives a *terrible* review of the property based on the AI package.  Unfortunately, if you read the review carefully, you see that the reviewer was last at the Royal Sands last year.  So the "low" rating is based on a complaint about the decision, not based on a stay at the property or personal experience.  That might be their right, but it means that you have ratings based on "political" opinions, not based on what happened during a stay.


----------



## buceo (Nov 30, 2012)

sbrower said:


> Our upcoming stay has made me more conscious of the low quality of information available on bulletin boards.  There is a new review of Royal Sands which gives a *terrible* review of the property based on the AI package.  Unfortunately, if you read the review carefully, you see that the reviewer was last at the Royal Sands last year.  So the "low" rating is based on a complaint about the decision, not based on a stay at the property or personal experience.  That might be their right, but it means that you have ratings based on "political" opinions, not based on what happened during a stay.



I agree, except I do not think it is "their right" in the TA Review Section.  I did write the poster and TA.  That post is an opinion for the forum, not a review.  I read it as: My last 10 exchanges were fantastic, but I am so sure that if I go again it will be terrible, so I won't go and will just write a terrible review of a trip I didn't take". My opinion, TA should remove it.  The one before listing the Sands as "non-hygienic" was a real review, I asked there too and the poster yes, it was the Sands (thought they had the wrong place myself).


----------



## sbrower (Dec 3, 2012)

Last 2 reviews (from people who actually did AI) were very positive.  And, as I anticipated, the portion sizes don't matter to AI people because you just order more food.  

I don't know how II rates "tradeability" (they seem to keep the actual formula as a secret - I sometimes suspect that they really don't even know how it works).  But I assume (perhaps incorrectly) that AI will hurt tradeability, because lesss people will trade for Royal Sands because of the mandatory AI fee.


----------



## jasm (Dec 3, 2012)

As a member who will be paying full price for meals for my family at the Royal Sands, I don't intend to accept smaller portions or lower quality because it fits into the economics of the AI plan (if indeed that is what's happening).  I will send it right back.  I hope other members do the same so the message gets across to the decision makers at the resort.


----------



## ilene13 (Dec 3, 2012)

jasm said:


> As a member who will be paying full price for meals for my family at the Royal Sands, I don't intend to accept smaller portions or lower quality because it fits into the economics of the AI plan (if indeed that is what's happening).  I will send it right back.  I hope other members do the same so the message gets across to the decision makers at the resort.



The portion sizes were not smaller at the RH week 45.


----------



## sbrower (Dec 10, 2012)

There is a new review (today) for Royal Sands.  Guest, who was on all inclusive, says she was happy but there was a surcharge for daily special of Shrimp Fajitas.  I will be there next week (II exchange, so AI) and am expecting to have a great time, because the Royal Sands have such good reviews, and I don't expect the AI to spoil it.  For example, please tell me how there can be a surcharge for "Daily Special - Shrimp Fajitas" under these rules (which are the ONLY official rules):

21. What Premium food and drink options are not included in the REFINE All-Inclusive package?

The following Premium dishes and drinks are not included in the REFINE All-Inclusive package but are available at additional cost:
• Lobster • Selected prime cuts of beef • Chilean sea bass • Fresh tuna • Dishes prepared tableside • Flambéed desserts & specialty coffees • Premium drinks & wines​
Unless the Shrimp Fajitas are "dishes prepared tableside" I don't see where any surcharge applies.  

Also, AI includes "tips."  At $105/day, I think that it is the job of management to make sure that enough of my money is going to the staff to make them *happy* to serve AI guests.  I am counting on the "excellent management" to make this all work out.


----------



## Correcaminos (Dec 21, 2012)

*Taking Royal Haciendas off our II request list*

Having enjoyed Royal Haciendas through II exchanges in the past, we enjoyed our days on site, relaxing by the pool or on the beach and either cooking in the room or eating in the restaurants.  But we also enjoyed trying out the wonderful places to eat in town or in other places as we took day trips around the area (several booked through the RH tour agents).

The new all-inclusive program, mandatory-for-II-exchangers, holds us hostage in the resort.  We have removed Royal resorts from our II request lists.


----------



## Dean (Dec 22, 2012)

Correcaminos said:


> Having enjoyed Royal Haciendas through II exchanges in the past, we enjoyed our days on site, relaxing by the pool or on the beach and either cooking in the room or eating in the restaurants.  But we also enjoyed trying out the wonderful places to eat in town or in other places as we took day trips around the area (several booked through the RH tour agents).
> 
> The new all-inclusive program, mandatory-for-II-exchangers, holds us hostage in the resort.  We have removed Royal resorts from our II request lists.


We too tend to avoid AI resorts, esp. in places where there are great off site restaurants to explore including most areas of MX and Aruba.  While it will likely take a year or 2, this will certainly hurt the trade power of those resorts as well as the owners who will suffer incremental food and drink related changes.  Even though the RR now listed on RCI doesn't include the AI info, I'd guess it's just not yet been listed and will be a requirement up front.  I'm assuming trades through independent's will be treated as a rental from an owner.


----------

