# Confused about ClubWyndham Access...Need help please!



## luv2trvl2 (Feb 9, 2010)

Hi There, 
Just purchased ClubWyndham Access 201K points EOY plus 195K bonus points and VIP through end of 2012 from Developer thinking it was a new program not available on resale. Still have 2 more days to rescind. Sounds like a better deal to buy Club Wyndham Access and have 13 months availability to multiple locations. They claim that the MF will be relatively even year-to-year. Sounds like from this post that it is not the case. Now that the program has been out for a little while, can anyone shed some light...and quickly please???  Not sure if this is the only way I can get this type of benefit.  I thought this was a deeded property but seems like this may be structured differently based on the other thread from 3/09 on this topic.

I am based in Southern CA and most interested in locations like Oceanside (I do understand 13 month availability is limited there), San Fran, LV, San Diego etc. as well as the many other locations nationwide. Thought this was a good supplement to my Marriott TS, offering the flexibility of nightly stays in Wyndham family of resorts. Please advise. Thanks.


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## vacationhopeful (Feb 9, 2010)

RESCIND NOW.

Club Wyndham Access is mainly the older East Coast Wyndham resorts. You are living in CA and Worldmark by Wyndham might be a batter match. Save your money and buy RESALE.


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## massvacationer (Feb 9, 2010)

If you want to be able to go to the Wyndham Oceanside resort in the summer, you might be better off buying a resale contract deeded at Oceanside, so you can get the 13 month ARP there


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## Jya-Ning (Feb 9, 2010)

Better Resind.

It does has Oceanside.  But what happens is if they put 2 units in, you can only ARP on those 2 units.  So instead of fighting with 52 owners, you now fighting with all club access owners for these 2 units.  Look at the public offering document, it should tell you exact how many units in each resort they put in.

As to buy resale,  in few years, unless Wyndham actively purchase these product back, you will be able to see some show in eBay.

Jya-Ning


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## timeos2 (Feb 9, 2010)

luv2trvl2 said:


> Hi There,
> Just purchased ClubWyndham Access 201K points EOY plus 195K bonus points and VIP through end of 2012 from Developer thinking it was a new program not available on resale. Still have 2 more days to rescind. Sounds like a better deal to buy Club Wyndham Access and have 13 months availability to multiple locations.



Rescind if you want value for your purchase dollar. No timeshare is an investment, all are simply methods of getting largely prepaid vacation use. The true cost are the ongoing annual fees not the one time purchase expense. Yet spending too much on that one time expense, as it cannot be recovered, lowers the potential for getting good value out over the ownership period. 

As mentioned in other posts you'd likely be far better off with a home ownership in Wyndham Points based on Oceanside at resale pricing for a number of reasons. The advance owner priority has a better chance of getting you time there vs the much more expensive ClubWyndham. The points spend the same no matter how you got them but they represent a much better value at resale price vs developer price. Realize that in one more day if you don't rescind the points you just paid around $.15 each for will be worth, at the very top end, $.02 each - actually closer to $.01.  Do you really think the ClubWyndham membership is worth 95% more strictly out of your pocket and realizing all other fees you pay will be exactly the same for resale and retail - you actually may pay more for retail if there are additional fees for membership in ClubWyndham.  Best advice from the outside - rescind while you can. IF you later decide that ClubWyndham was a better fit you can be assured that Wyndham will be more than happy to offer it again at the same or maybe even a better purchase price. Once you own it you are never going get the purchase cost back so be really really sure that is what you want before committing to it.

To make matters worse you are seriously overpaying for an EOY ownership AND will lose the nearly meaningless VIP after 2012 which is one of the few reasons, although incredibly overpriced to get, to pay retail price. To keep that you'd have to buy even more excessively high priced retail points getting even further in the hole on purchase price vs ongoing value. Rescind this deal or you are likely to regret it in a year or two when it is far too late to undo it.


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## bnoble (Feb 9, 2010)

Absolutely rescind.  Oceanside isn't available for CWA ARP during summer---and that's about the only time you'd need it.  Most of the rest of those resorts don't need ARP, either.


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## luv2trvl2 (Feb 9, 2010)

Jya-Ning said:


> Better Resind.
> 
> It does has Oceanside.  But what happens is if they put 2 units in, you can only ARP on those 2 units.  So instead of fighting with 52 owners, you now fighting with all club access owners for these 2 units.  Look at the public offering document, it should tell you exact how many units in each resort they put in.
> 
> ...



According to our public offering, Oceanside has 1598 SDUA and LV Grand Desert has 237 SDUA.  However, Sedona has a total of 12 and Flagstaff has 125.  The only one that is remotely interesting that seems too small is Bonnet Creek at 2.

I guess what I'm really trying to understand is what is the disadvantage from owning Club Access?  I see your point about the available units.  Are there others?  We could buy Grand Desert resale but for us it would only be for exchanging purposes as we aren't real big on Vegas but it seems their MF are fairly stable and probably would have good trade value.  Is that a good enough reason to buy there though?  We like the quality of the Wyndham resorts as it seems that Worldmark is not quite as nice. However, we would also have access to the WM resorts being a Wyndham owner.

We have looked into sales at Oceanside and don't see any available on Tug or Redweek.  Not as familiar with Ebay and not sure what link to look on to find.  

My husband & I kind of like the VIP program and some of the points options.  If we buy this now and then buy additional resale points elsewhere, can we grandfather the resale into the Club Wyndham?


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## luv2trvl2 (Feb 9, 2010)

timeos2 said:


> Rescind if you want value for your purchase dollar. No timeshare is an investment, all are simply methods of getting largely prepaid vacation use. The true cost are the ongoing annual fees not the one time purchase expense. Yet spending too much on that one time expense, as it cannot be recovered, lowers the potential for getting good value out over the ownership period.
> 
> As mentioned in other posts you'd likely be far better off with a home ownership in Wyndham Points based on Oceanside at resale pricing for a number of reasons. The advance owner priority has a better chance of getting you time there vs the much more expensive ClubWyndham. The points spend the same no matter how you got them but they represent a much better value at resale price vs developer price. Realize that in one more day if you don't rescind the points you just paid around $.15 each for will be worth, at the very top end, $.02 each - actually closer to $.01.  Do you really think the ClubWyndham membership is worth 95% more strictly out of your pocket and realizing all other fees you pay will be exactly the same for resale and retail - you actually may pay more for retail if there are additional fees for membership in ClubWyndham.  Best advice from the outside - rescind while you can. IF you later decide that ClubWyndham was a better fit you can be assured that Wyndham will be more than happy to offer it again at the same or maybe even a better purchase price. Once you own it you are never going get the purchase cost back so be really really sure that is what you want before committing to it.
> 
> To make matters worse you are seriously overpaying for an EOY ownership AND will lose the nearly meaningless VIP after 2012 which is one of the few reasons, although incredibly overpriced to get, to pay retail price. To keep that you'd have to buy even more excessively high priced retail points getting even further in the hole on purchase price vs ongoing value. Rescind this deal or you are likely to regret it in a year or two when it is far too late to undo it.



Thank you for the advice.  We paid .07/pt for the 210k which we thought wasn't as bad as we've seen on some of these programs.  I do agree with you that the ongoing MF are really the key.  For now, the MF for CWA is lower ($48/mth) vs. MF for Grand Desert ($65/mth).  I"m guessing that Oceanside would only be more.  But our concern is if it will stay that way for CWA MF.  Is there a place to see the history of the FairShare plan MFs?  We know that Grand Desert is not going to get hit with a hurricane and we dont' want to subsidize the East Coast resorts assessments.  Just not sure if this is a good way to go.  

Do they really offer the program if you rescind and come back including the Bonus Pts and VIP till 2012?

By the way, we bought at Grand Desert in Vegas but since we live in CA, we have 7 days to Recind according to our contract addendum so it looks like I have till the end of the week to weigh the options.

Thanks all!  I really appreciate your knowledge and advice.


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## timeos2 (Feb 9, 2010)

*VIP is fleeting and cannot be upgraded with resale points*



luv2trvl2 said:


> My husband & I kind of like the VIP program and some of the points options.  If we buy this now and then buy additional resale points elsewhere, can we grandfather the resale into the Club Wyndham?



No to any "grandfathering" in. 

You had better REALLY like VIP as you'd be paying at least 90% more in upfront cost that you could never hope to get back for benefits that could be ended, or at least reduced, tomorrow with zero recourse on your side as it is not guaranteed in any way. And your proposed purchase isn't even at VIP level once the "bonus" points end in 2012. All other fees, etc stay the same with Retail or Resale purchase. Only the 90-95% savings at the time of purchase is certain. And the lack of VIP later. 

It seems like you have 24 hours or less to decide against what virtually every post here says is a VERY bad choice financially. You asked, you got the answer yet you still seem to be determined to pay far too much in the eyes of many experienced owners. Think about it very carefully before the clock hits midnight and you make a sales weasel very happy at your expense. And remember that the VIP you "like" wouldn't be yours after 2012 unless you purchase a boatload more of seriously overpriced retail points. I cannot stress enough that this is NOT A GOOD DEAL but only you can decide if somehow it is for you.


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## sandkastle4966 (Feb 9, 2010)

pls listen to the "rescind advice" - you do not have enough info to fully understand the product.......rescind now - if you decide it is the right decision for you - it will still be there next month, or in 6 months.

you have referenced "trade value" of your week -grandview - there is no trade value - you own points, and there is no trade value - there is only "value" on fixed weeks....


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## luv2trvl2 (Feb 9, 2010)

timeos2 said:


> No to any "grandfathering" in.
> 
> You had better REALLY like VIP as you'd be paying at least 90% more in upfront cost that you could never hope to get back for benefits that could be ended, or at least reduced, tomorrow with zero recourse on your side as it is not guaranteed in any way. And your proposed purchase isn't even at VIP level once the "bonus" points end in 2012. All other fees, etc stay the same with Retail or Resale purchase. Only the 90-95% savings at the time of purchase is certain. And the lack of VIP later.
> 
> It seems like you have 24 hours or less to decide against what virtually every post here says is a VERY bad choice financially. You asked, you got the answer yet you still seem to be determined to pay far too much in the eyes of many experienced owners. Think about it very carefully before the clock hits midnight and you make a sales weasel very happy at your expense. And remember that the VIP you "like" wouldn't be yours after 2012 unless you purchase a boatload more of seriously overpriced retail points. I cannot stress enough that this is NOT A GOOD DEAL but only you can decide if somehow it is for you.



Actually, no.  I just didn't know where to find the information for what the TS are selling for at Oceanside.  I still have not been able to find any Oceanside for sale but did search and found Las Vegas on Ebay at $49 for the EOY 210K so that answers our question.  We are rescinding. 

The one thing that I did not see until I went onto the Wyndham Owners web is that CWA is NOT a DEEDED property but a perpetual RTU. Looks like the units in the CWA are slow movers (except Oceanside which is limited).  My salesperson is saying that it is deeded and a trust (which makes no sense to me).  While holding the deed and control of the vote is important to us, our purchase value is as well.  After seeing the prices on Ebay, it is essentially that you pay the closing costs and then take over the MF which is a great deal to me. 
I do appreciate your feedback.  Just was trying to understand why we wouldn't go for the new product that I thought was not available on resale.  Turns out it is as well.  But after all is said and done, we've opted for the deed at Grand Desert. Voting power is important.  Contracts is supposed to be calling back.  I will share what they tell me when I get more informaiton in the event that anyone else out there is traying to assess the difference between ClubWynhdam Access vs. single location deeded property.  Sounds like the latter is the better way to go.
Thanks


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## Jya-Ning (Feb 9, 2010)

luv2trvl2 said:


> According to our public offering, Oceanside has 1598 SDUA and LV Grand Desert has 237 SDUA.  However, Sedona has a total of 12 and Flagstaff has 125.  The only one that is remotely interesting that seems too small is Bonnet Creek at 2.
> 
> I guess what I'm really trying to understand is what is the disadvantage from owning Club Access?  I see your point about the available units.  Are there others?  We could buy Grand Desert resale but for us it would only be for exchanging purposes as we aren't real big on Vegas but it seems their MF are fairly stable and probably would have good trade value.  Is that a good enough reason to buy there though?  We like the quality of the Wyndham resorts as it seems that Worldmark is not quite as nice. However, we would also have access to the WM resorts being a Wyndham owner.
> 
> ...




I will guess 1598 SDUA means week unit.  So it is about 30 units.  Not that bad.  

The 2nd thing you need to know is all these will be built on top of the underline resorts.  Not like Worldmark who control all the resorts and has an up limited capped.  Each individual resort will be its own.  At this moment, there is no special need for other extra work, but just look at the way the inventory goes, it will have add cost of its own on top of the regular MF, club fee.

I do know some people bought Ocean site 2 years ago resale with cost pretty close to eBay price at that time.  It is a new resort, so you will not see too many on sale.

Not sure what VIP and club access combination brings you toward Oceanside.  You have not benefit if you make reservation at summer time and X'Mas time.  And if you don't go at these time, you don't need home resort advantage.

Your resale will not count for the VIP.  There is no grandfather.  The only grandfather I hear is at 2003.  At this time, once the bonus point gone, it is gone.  So at this moment, you bought 2 year of VIP.  If you bought say 300k resale point, than buy the 200k discover point, it will count toward VIP so you will get gold VIP for 2 years.  I would think that is much cost effective.

As the things go, anytime you show interest, you will get offer for the discover program.

Here is other way of thinking, go to Wyndham owner site, there are some owner willing to rent their point and VIP at much better price.  Rent from them and use it for the Oceanside at shoulder summer, you will not get discount and upgrade (which will be the same as your current package).  it is much better deal.  And if you are not looking at summer, you will get discount and upgrade which Plantimun owner will do much better for you.

On the other hand, if you do have all the cash to cover the purchase, and does not mind to use it this way, and do plan to buy another 195k in 2 years, than welcome to the VIP club.

Jya-Ning


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## Jya-Ning (Feb 9, 2010)

luv2trvl2 said:


> Thank you for the advice.  We paid .07/pt for the 210k which we thought wasn't as bad as we've seen on some of these programs.  I do agree with you that the ongoing MF are really the key.  For now, the MF for CWA is lower ($48/mth) vs. MF for Grand Desert ($65/mth).  I"m guessing that Oceanside would only be more.



Are you compare 210k EOY contract to 210k every year in GD?

.07/k for 210k are you divide your purchase cost by 210k or 105k?

if you bought EOY, 210k for 48/M MF, it goes to $5.49 per K.  So the MF is about $4.8 per K since you are at 300k level.  What GD contract you actually looking at?  Is it like 175k Every year?,  It is about $4 per 1K


Jya-Ning


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## Bill4728 (Feb 9, 2010)

> I just didn't know where to find the information for what the TS are selling for at Oceanside. I still have not been able to find any Oceanside for sale but did search and found Las Vegas on Ebay at $49 for the EOY 210K so that answers our question. We are rescinding.



Glad to hear you're rescinding. 

I agree that buying into another TS system may be a good idea for you. Please look carefully at both Wyn & WM.  WM has a lot more resorts on the west coast than WYN.  WYN will also say things like the WM resort at Disney is affiliated with us. TRUE but only a handful of rooms in that big nice resort are available to Wyn owners, all the rest are only for WM owners. 

Good Luck


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## AwayWeGo (Feb 9, 2010)

*Rescinda-Sinda-Sinda.*




luv2trvl2 said:


> Please advise.


Get out of it while you can. 

Nothing the timeshare companies sell at full freight is worth the money. 

That specially goes for Wyndham VIP status. 

It's like paying $2*,*000+ for perks & benefits worth more like $200. 

Not only that, you don't have to do without the benefits.  You can pay for those yourself for far less than the excess money that you kiss goodbye when you pay full freight.  

When you buy your timeshare(s) resale, you're already way ahead of the game, period.  Everything else is details. 

Buy timeshares resale.  Save thousands of dollars on exactly the same thing, or the equivalent, or something even better. 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


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## vacationhopeful (Feb 9, 2010)

*Rescind BOTH Wyndham Contracts*

Listen to every other poster on YOUR thread - do not buy from Wyndham (the developer), BUY their points via RESALE.  Don't buy Club Access. Don't buy Grand Desert.

Spend the next 6 months learning about your vacation needs and various timeshare products. Many here consider WORLDMARK to be nicer units than the Wyndham resorts.  But there are many other developers - Marriott, Hyatt, Hilton, DVC (who is opening a new, large Disneyland Resort), Starwood, etc.

And using eBay is extremely easy. Almost all moms have learned how to use it to buy 'stuff' for the kids and home.  You can look without signing in (as a guest), just type ebay.com and search 'timeshare' 'wyndham'.  

JMHO,


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## ecwinch (Feb 9, 2010)

It is all about preserving your rights. Once the recession period is over, there is no going back.

If have some questions, so preserve your options and rescind now. 

Then conduct your due diligence without the looming deadline. If you feel the VIP benefits are worth the large differential in price, that deal will still be there in two or three weeks (despite what the sales process makes you think). Heck it might even be better.

You have nothing to lose and everything to gain. Rescind.


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## luv2trvl2 (Feb 9, 2010)

Jya-Ning said:


> I will guess 1598 SDUA means week unit.  So it is about 30 units.  Not that bad.
> 
> Thank you for the information.  Actually, SDUA  means (Seven Day Use Availability) so there actually are 1598 units that CWA has an interest in for Oceanside but the 5/31 - Labor Day block out dates still apply for this location.  I also verified # available units with the contracts person at WYN.  Nevertheless, I am convinced that the 3 month window is not that great of an advantage when you consider most of the locations.  We can save our money and maybe we will take up your idea to rent Oceanside.  Maybe down the road we will buy points there too.  We really don't plan to go that often as we usually go to various locations so it is not critical.  Also, although we have kids, we have flexibility to go to Oceanside on weekends or even weekdays so that is not as big an issue either.  I really just did not understand CWA and now I feel that my questions have been answered.  We have notified Wyndham that we are recinding and that they will receive their documents in a couple of days. Thank you for the calculations. The Develpoer EOY cost $14,800 so I divided that by 210K which is how I got my figure.
> 
> ...


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## LBTRS (Feb 9, 2010)

vacationhopeful said:


> Don't buy Grand Desert.



Can you expound on this, why wouldn't someone want to buy Grand Desert? Maint Fees seemed lower than most is why I picked it. Was I missing something when I made the decision?

Thanks.


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## ausman (Feb 9, 2010)

I'm guessing it was an admonishment not to buy from the* Developer *at Grand Desert.

Grand Desert does have one of the lower MF's and deserves consideration from that aspect.

From new resort to older soon I suspect an increase in fees or a Special Assessment. Same is true of many others, take a guess, put your money down and spin the wheel


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## Jya-Ning (Feb 10, 2010)

luv2trvl2 said:


> For the record, if there is anyone interested in knowing a little more about this program, I was able to get the other information about CWA regarding voting rights.  From the contract "Owner is a member of the Association and is entitled 1) to use points to reserve the use of accomodations in the Club; b. to vote for directors for the Association, c) to vote on major decisions of the Association and d) through the Club and the Association to participate in the ownership of the Association. At the closing of the Ownership, Owner will receive an Ownership Certificate evidencing the Ownership (which will delineate among other things, Owner points."....Ownership shall be perpetual if Perpetual points and Term Points are purchased for the the term above if only Term Points are purchased.  ...the Ownership (and the Points) may be transferred entirely or partially at any time during their term and without limitation to the number of transfers through sale, gift, inheritance, dissolution of marriage, or by an operation of law".
> 
> Essentially, the owners certificate represents the percentage ownership held in a Trust.  The Association holds the deed or lease to each Club Accomodation.



Thank, I do like to know.  Sounds like they find a way to control the POA, since they get owner inside of their trust to vote, but most probably will have the voting right automatically give to them if they did not send the instruction back.  And since they probably control the trustee just like they conrol VOA trustee, so owner basically has very little said.  Which may or may not be a bad thing.




luv2trvl2 said:


> Thank you for the information.  Actually, SDUA  means (Seven Day Use Availability) so there actually are 1598 units that CWA has an interest in for Oceanside but the 5/31 - Labor Day block out dates still apply for this location.



That is good to know.  It does not sound right, since that resort should has UDI only.  So to differential the time, it actually cost more complexity in the operation.  And in theory, violate all the reason to have UDI.  Will be really interesting to see what the operation cost will be.  I thought some developer are really bad when they purpose create some red float week with very few red week in the pool or exclude certain holiday.  Did not expect Wyndham goes to that level.  Sadly.

Jya-Ning


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## rrlongwell (Jul 12, 2011)

luv2trvl2 said:


> ... For the record, if there is anyone interested in knowing a little more about this program ...



Moved to top of list in response to a recent post.


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