# Considering buying at WSJ - Tips / Advice?



## C30NY (Mar 7, 2013)

Wife and I are considering buying at WSJ.  We travel in what is considered the platinum season and will probably be targeting a platinum week (since the price is much lower than a plat +). Athough I don't like the idea of paying the same (MFs) for a less staroption week, since we will be using it most years I think we are ok with that.   

We will be looking for a 2BR for the family vacations.  What are the primary factors I need to know about the different sections, unit types, etc?  Is there a certain section, unit or otherwise I should target for any various reasons (price, staying w kids, using it instead of trading w SO's, Etc...)

Any help or suggestions are greatly appreciated.

Thank you!

~jase


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## LisaRex (Mar 7, 2013)

I assume you know that the new version, Bay Vista, isn't a mandatory resort and doesn't come with SOs up resale.  So if you WANT SOs, then you'll have to target the Virgin Grand units, which are across the street from the main campus and have their own pools/BBQs etc.

If being a part of the resort appeals to you, then consider Bay Vista.  The downside is that parking is far away.  The 2 bdrm lofts are crazy big and are awesome for families.  But resale units won't come with SOs at all. 

Personally, after being a float owner for 6 years, the idea of fixing the week and unit appeals to me.  Much less stress, though of course it comes with less flexibility.  I think most Bay Vista units come as float, while the Virgin Grand units come as fixed weeks.  

I believe USVI is behind on their property tax collection, so straighten out who will pay for past years in the contract.


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## DavidnRobin (Mar 7, 2013)

C30NY said:


> Wife and I are considering buying at WSJ.  We travel in what is considered the platinum season and will probably be targeting a platinum week (since the price is much lower than a plat +). Athough I don't like the idea of paying the same for a less staroption week, since we will be using it most years I think we are ok with that.
> 
> We will be looking for a 2BR for the family vacations.  What are the primary factors I need to know about the different sections, unit types, etc?  Is there a certain section, unit or otherwise I should target for any various reasons (price, staying w kids, using it instead of trading w SO's, Etc...)
> 
> ...





Jase -
A lot has already been written on this subject (1st check out the WSJ thread - read it in reverse as it has become quite long), and it is very dependent on your planned usage, and personal vacation needs.  Instead of revisiting this topic, I would suggest reading salient posts on this subject.  The best start would be to understand the differences between the BV and VG phases.  After researching, come on back and ask specific questions - it may be an easier approach to matching your personal vacation needs and expectations for owning at WSJ.

As far as 2Bd WSJ choices go - you have either the 2Bd Townhouse in the VG (Hillside) section, and the 2Bd and 2Bd lofts in the BV section - with the lofts being the best choice (IMO) - and I think others agree. There is a 2Bd Premium villa in the VG section, but I would stay away for this (IMO) as the MFs are the same as for the 3Bd pool villas.

LR is correct - the VG sections do not float - so treat it like a fixed week (with a fixed check-in day) even though some ads will claim it floats (while technically true, in practice this does not happen).

Good luck.


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## C30NY (Mar 7, 2013)

If any unit has use of all facilities (which I think it does) we wouldn't be preferential.  I think the entry price is a main factor, and if non-SO weeks are substantially less on resale, that works for us....since we plan to use it, and if not it won't be hard to find friends to take it.  The fixed week also sounds decent, but a bit unnerving incase either of us are unable to get a specific week each year.

Other than the obvious hurricane months, and time that would also be not the best to visit?


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## DavidnRobin (Mar 7, 2013)

C30NY said:


> If any unit has use of all facilities (which I think it does) we wouldn't be preferential.  I think the entry price is a main factor, and if non-SO weeks are substantially less on resale, that works for us....since we plan to use it, and if not it won't be hard to find friends to take it.  The fixed week also sounds decent, but a bit unnerving incase either of us are unable to get a specific week each year.
> 
> Other than the obvious hurricane months, and time that would also be not the best to visit?



Both phases have full use of facilities.
Time of visiting depends on your needs.  IMO (note IMO... you will see why I write this after perusing the WSJ thread) - I would suggest not owning from mid-Aug to mid-Nov.  Also, in reality hurricanes are less of a threat than tropical storms as tropical storms are more frequent than hurricanes and can be just as destructive on the island (mainly due to flooding).  The unstable weather during the 'hurricane' months can also be a problem planning wise.  Also, the caribbean isalnds often take a long time to overcome a huricane (a running joke on the island...).

The fixed weeks are just that... fixed - so you are assured of getting that week (and villa) every year - including check-in as mentioned.  If you need a float week - then do not buy the VG phase.

Plat+, and Plat seasons have the most value - and most demand. The downside may be how crowded it is (we have only been there in June and it is pretty quiet), but from photos and videos I have seen the snow-bird months seem to be very active.  I visited many years ago (1991) in October while sailing - it was dead.  Sept is slowest month and many places are closed during thsi time.  I also see that there is more wave action on the north side beaches during winter - it is incredibly calm in June (when we own).


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## LisaRex (Mar 7, 2013)

If you're not chained to a school schedule, pick a non-holiday week in your target season.  Holiday weeks (e.g President's Day) are generally more crowded, and airfares/rental car rates are usually increased as well.  Though I think O'Connor car rental is pretty much inflated all year round!

I also think you should put more thought into the phase.  They really do have a unique flavor to them.  The VG villas are like their own oasis.  Some owners don't ever visit the main pool or restaurants.   And parking is much more convenient for lugging groceries and hauling scuba/snorkeling equipment.

Bay Vista phase, on the other hand, feels much more like an extension of the main resort.  It doesn't have its own pool or hot tub, so you'll probably be spending more time at the "hotel" part.  

If you like privacy, I'd opt for VG.  If you like to feel more a part of a resort, I'd target BV.  However, the inventory is much greater at the older phase, though prices for BV don't seem at all bad relatively speaking.


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## C30NY (Mar 7, 2013)

Thanks for the replies.  I'll keep googling for more info and hitting the beat to dig up a good price. 

Is ROFR in play at WSJ?


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## DavidnRobin (Mar 7, 2013)

C30NY said:


> Thanks for the replies.  I'll keep googling for more info and hitting the beat to dig up a good price.
> 
> Is ROFR in play at WSJ?



WSJ-VG does not have a ROFR, I do not think WSJ-BV has one either (but not sure)


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## LisaRex (Mar 7, 2013)

C30NY said:


> Thanks for the replies.  I'll keep googling for more info and hitting the beat to dig up a good price.



Do you know that Tug has ads in the classified section?  If that doesn't work, I highly recommend spending the $15 to join Redweek.com.  The inventory at that site is really good.


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## C30NY (Mar 7, 2013)

Yes and yes, but redweek doesn't have many sale weeks currently (in BV)

Thank you for the input, I do appreciate it


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## C30NY (Mar 7, 2013)

I'm looking at a 2br townhouse in the hillside villa section.  Are all 2br's on the top floors, with views of the bay?  

Is this an accurate layout of units for the buildings?  And do corner units have windows on the side?

Thanks again all!


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## NerdAlert (Mar 8, 2013)

Drawing is pretty good except for building 31 and shading is a tad goofy. That was a building Westin built out around 2005. On the first floor, they merged every two of the studio shells to create the 2BR premium villas Dave was referring to. So in general, studios in middles (first floors), 2BR TH on ends (lower and upper floor entries), 1BD TH middles (second floors).
Side windows are large windows in curvy dormers above staircases where they split--you can't really see much out of them but sky, about 8-10 feet above the landing.
See pix of 2BR end villa 3310 here to see large side window:
http://www.westinstjohnrentals.com/2BRTownhouse.html


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## DavidnRobin (Mar 8, 2013)

Good diagram - very handy.
I didn't realize that the bottom floor in B31 were all 2Bd Prem villas (2 studios put together) - this may explain the MFs being the same as the 3Bd villas (2x the studio MFs).

All villas have views of GCB and beyond.
The 2Bd TH villas are on the ends of both floors.
As Nerd mentioned - the window sits above the stairwell.  You can't see out of it, but it gives light to the villa that is lacking in the 1Bd and studios.

We own 3410 (2Bd TH) - I have posted some (poor) videos on YouTube (blujahz).
I have photos as well, and will post link when I find it.


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## C30NY (Mar 8, 2013)

Thanks, I found the links to your videos!  Appreciated!


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## DavidnRobin (Mar 8, 2013)

C30NY said:


> Thanks, I found the links to your videos!  Appreciated!



Be aware that most of these are before the refurbish and new sidings/roofs - there are some from the pool view that shows the difference (vastly improved) - so check the dates.  The walk thru ones are prior to the refurbish being completed (e.g. downstair flooring is now tiled vs carpet).  I plan to update this year (sadly, we didn't go in 2012) with improved video now that we have an iPhone5.  The pool areas have also been refurbished.


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## Westin5Star (Mar 8, 2013)

I have stayed in both the old and new sections.  I love the 2 BR lofts in the new section (they really feel bigger than some 4 br houses that I have been in).  If I were buying, I would buy a 2BR in the older section though.  The fixed week for us is just much easier.  

I also agree with what David said about the time of year.  I would not go from late August through the end of October.  We have been twice during those times and there are too many things closed (shops, restaurants, tours, etc.).  The good thing about those months are that the beaches are next to empty.  I have been to Trunk Bay at 11 am and no one else was there yet (at 1pm there were only 4-5 small families).  

Good luck with finding the right fit for your family.


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## Fredm (Mar 8, 2013)

DavidnRobin said:


> WSJ-VG does not have a ROFR, I do not think WSJ-BV has one either (but not sure)



No ROFR at WSJ-BV.

Only four have ROFR. The 3 in Hawaii, plus WMH.


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## Westin5Star (Mar 9, 2013)

I'm not sure if this is the right thread for this but it is semi related due to the flex vs. fixed week issue.  I have been very lucky in getting a a room all 5 times that I have called for WSJ using SO.  I do not try to go in platinum plus season or during holiday weeks.

Last week, however, I tried to call at 6am PST 8 months out for both November 1 and 2.  I was turned away both times so I decided to wait list.  As I got to thinking about things, my wife and I have always talked about staying in town at the Gallows Point.  Every time we eat at Zozo's we think how nice it would be to walk down stairs to our room.  We also have talked, over the years, about staying in Jost.

This morning we decided to book 6 days at Gallows and 3 days in Jost.  I will probably miss a few things about the Westin (voodoo juice) but I am interested to see what it is like actually staying in town.  

After calling and not getting the room at the Westin, it makes me even more certain that I would prefer a fixed week at WSJ (if I were to buy) similar to my Phase 1 HRA.


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## Beaglemom3 (Mar 9, 2013)

As a recent buyer & seller, here's my spin for what it's worth:

I bought ( Unit 3319 week 32, 2 bds.) because:

1. Wonderful, lovely resort with all sorts of ammenities.
2. Hard to trade into, if not impossible - great trader, too.l
3. Easy-ish to get to - STT is accessible from San Juan, Miami and several mainland cities.
4. Lovely people, wonderful beaches, clean, low crime (last I heard).
5. You'll have great resources here on TUG for info and insights.
6. Good restaurants on the island.
7. Easy access to STT and the BVI. Very easy.



I sold because:

1. Bought 2 Marriott CHs and those fit my lifestyle better (MR points usage)
2. The MF was (is ?) steep - $2,700 when I sold, but this may have captured some of the improvement charges.
3. I felt that I could rent there when I wanted for near the same MF and not have the annual MF obligation.


  I will always love the WSJ and have nothing bad to say about it. Who could ? 


Check out the TUG Marketplace first, Redweek and there's another that I will post.

ETA:  http://www.islandiarealestate.com/condo.cfm?Attributes.Type=Timeshare


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## Westin5Star (Mar 9, 2013)

*Should I Buy?*

As some of you may remember, last year I sold both of my EOY WPORV weeks. One of the reasons that we did that was to possibly look at one day buying at WSJ. 

This thread got me thinking and looking into purchasing a fixed WSJ.  I came across a 3BR villa week 13 (which is my kids spring break week from school every week) for $26,750.  It is building 43 so it is the newer (IMO better) floor plan.  I have not been following pricing on these types of units in this season but can you all give me your input.  

Thanks,
Jody


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## DavidnRobin (Mar 9, 2013)

Westin5Star said:


> I'm not sure if this is the right thread for this but it is semi related due to the flex vs. fixed week issue.  I have been very lucky in getting a a room all 5 times that I have called for WSJ using SO.  I do not try to go in platinum plus season or during holiday weeks.
> 
> Last week, however, I tried to call at 6am PST 8 months out for both November 1 and 2.  I was turned away both times so I decided to wait list.  As I got to thinking about things, my wife and I have always talked about staying in town at the Gallows Point.  Every time we eat at Zozo's we think how nice it would be to walk down stairs to our room.  We also have talked, over the years, about staying in Jost.
> 
> ...



Have you thought about the new fractionals (aka TS) at Grande Bay - you can get rentals there as well.

Jost may be interesting, but not sure for how long (but great way to really get away)

There are also many (many) sweet MM villas to rent - esp with $$$ to spend.


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## DavidnRobin (Mar 9, 2013)

Westin5Star said:


> As some of you may remember, last year I sold both of my EOY WPORV weeks. One of the reasons that we did that was to possibly look at one day buying at WSJ.
> 
> This thread got me thinking and looking into purchasing a fixed WSJ.  I came across a 3BR villa week 13 (which is my kids spring break week from school every week) for $26,750.  It is building 43 so it is the newer (IMO better) floor plan.  I have not been following pricing on these types of units in this season but can you all give me your input.
> 
> ...



I sent PM.  If that week works (and what you are looking for...) you may need to pay a premium.  For example, I saw a week 8 3bd listed for $18K a while back (not sure of building number) - I agree building location is important.  There are listings all over the place - so make sure you check these sources out.

To bad June doesn't work for you - it would be good to run into you and party.


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## steve1000 (Mar 10, 2013)

Westin5Star said:


> As some of you may remember, last year I sold both of my EOY WPORV weeks. One of the reasons that we did that was to possibly look at one day buying at WSJ.
> 
> This thread got me thinking and looking into purchasing a fixed WSJ.  I came across a 3BR villa week 13 (which is my kids spring break week from school every week) for $26,750.  It is building 43 so it is the newer (IMO better) floor plan.  I have not been following pricing on these types of units in this season but can you all give me your input.
> 
> ...



I think that is a pretty reasonable deal for a WSJ BV fixed week/unit 3BR if that fixed week works for you. Of course, do your due diligence, check out other websites, make some inquiries and negotiate your best deal - but that seems attractive for a high demand spring break week.


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## Westin5Star (Mar 11, 2013)

Thanks for the advice Steve and David.  

I wish I could do June also but the boys are often very involved with their two swim teams and getting ready for JOs.

My wife gave me the thumbs up on getting a TS at WSJ since it is her favorite.  We are off to Belize tomorrow and then Panama in a couple of weeks.  I will most likely make an offer once we return in early April (if it is still available).


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## C30NY (Mar 18, 2013)

Thanks for everyones help and information.  I ended up finalizing the contract and putting a deposit today on a week.  Got a 2BR Hillside unit for what I consider a great deal!  Cant wait to visit WSJ!!


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## DavidnRobin (Mar 18, 2013)

C30NY said:


> Thanks for everyones help and information.  I ended up finalizing the contract and putting a deposit today on a week.  Got a 2BR Hillside unit for what I consider a great deal!  Cant wait to visit WSJ!!



Congrats - sounds like a great deal.  Hopefully you will love StJ as much as we do.


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## Westin5Star (Mar 19, 2013)

C30NY said:


> Thanks for everyones help and information.  I ended up finalizing the contract and putting a deposit today on a week.  Got a 2BR Hillside unit for what I consider a great deal!  Cant wait to visit WSJ!!


Congratulations. We stayed in a 2BR Hillside unit last year and we loved it.  Enjoy your new place!


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## GregT (Mar 19, 2013)

Westin5Star said:


> As some of you may remember, last year I sold both of my EOY WPORV weeks. One of the reasons that we did that was to possibly look at one day buying at WSJ.
> 
> This thread got me thinking and looking into purchasing a fixed WSJ.  I came across a 3BR villa week 13 (which is my kids spring break week from school every week) for $26,750.  It is building 43 so it is the newer (IMO better) floor plan.  I have not been following pricing on these types of units in this season but can you all give me your input.
> 
> ...



Jody,

Something to consider if you do buy the Fixed week 13 -- someday, you may wish you also owned the Week 12 or Week 14 so you could visit for two weeks.  I've encountered this with my MOC -- I love love love my fixed weeks, but now as my week appetite expands, there's only two people on the planet that I can buy the _exact week I want_ from -- the adjacent week owners of my unit, and neither one is currently interested in selling to me.  

So....just be aware of this limitation to the otherwise very desirable fixed week.   You may want to wait until you find both a Week 12 and Week 13 available together (or Week 13 and 14) since the price is not prohibitive.   

The ability to book longer than 7 days is actually one of the real advantages to using StarOptions, in that you can get more than 7 days (if available, of course) -- and a 8/9/10/14 day stay is theoretically possible.

Best,

Greg


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## DavidnRobin (Mar 19, 2013)

GregT said:


> Something to consider if you do buy the Fixed week 13 -- someday, you may wish you also owned the Week 12 or Week 14 so you could visit for two weeks.  I've encountered this with my MOC -- I love love love my fixed weeks, but now as my week appetite expands, there's only two people on the planet that I can buy the _exact week I want_ from -- the adjacent week owners of my unit, and neither one is currently interested in selling to me.
> 
> So....just be aware of this limitation to the otherwise very desirable fixed week.   You may want to wait until you find both a Week 12 and Week 13 available together (or Week 13 and 14) since the price is not prohibitive.
> 
> The ability to book longer than 7 days is actually one of the real advantages to using StarOptions, in that you can get more than 7 days (if available, of course) -- and a 8/9/10/14 day stay is theoretically possible.



I did this for WSJ-VG - picked up an adjacent week to go with our original week.  I was about to sell our week because it was just too far (and way too short) to go for 1-week from CA. By the time we acclimated to the heat/humidity and slowed down to island pace (don't have either here in SF) - it was time to head back (14-15hr door-to-door on red-eye).  When we originally purchased our week (via eBay/DNFC), I contacted the seller of the adjacent week and asked them to contact me if they ever thought of selling their other week. Luckily (or maybe unluckily...), a few years later they did, and now we still get to enjoy StJ every year for 2-weeks (although 4-6 months would be my dream - in case anyone wants to go in on one of those 2MM villas).

For WSJ-VG - the check-in days are fixed as well - so very nice to have back-to-back weeks, but it is hard to find an adjacent week in same villa (or one that has same check-in day).  It is more valuable (to me - IMO) to have 2-weeks instead of just one week - at least when traveling from far away.


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## Westin5Star (Mar 19, 2013)

Greg,

Thank you for reminding me of this.  I did remember David getting his second week a couple of years back for this reason.  I actually think that I would book somewhere in town (like Gallow's Point) or another island (like Jost) if we wanted to extend our trip more than a week.  I usually prefer 10-12 day trips so we could do a week at WSJ and then a few days somewhere else.  



GregT said:


> Jody,
> 
> Something to consider if you do buy the Fixed week 13 -- someday, you may wish you also owned the Week 12 or Week 14 so you could visit for two weeks.  I've encountered this with my MOC -- I love love love my fixed weeks, but now as my week appetite expands, there's only two people on the planet that I can buy the _exact week I want_ from -- the adjacent week owners of my unit, and neither one is currently interested in selling to me.
> 
> ...


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## Ken555 (Mar 19, 2013)

Westin5Star said:


> Greg,
> 
> Thank you for reminding me of this.  I did remember David getting his second week a couple of years back for this reason.  I actually think that I would book somewhere in town (like Gallow's Point) or another island (like Jost) if we wanted to extend our trip more than a week.  I usually prefer 10-12 day trips so we could do a week at WSJ and then a few days somewhere else.



Jody,

Just get yourself a boat!


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## Westin5Star (Mar 21, 2013)

Ken555 said:


> Jody,
> 
> Just get yourself a boat!



If I do, you will have a permanent invite Ken!


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## Crasherino (Mar 29, 2013)

(I figure this goes more properly in this thread rather than the omnibus, all inclusive WSJ thread)....

Would love some advice.  Contrary to what I thought, I seemed to have stumbled across a 2bdrm Loft BV for a Platinum Plus week.  The cost is well below what the resort quoted us ($58K) and indeed well below what I thought anyone would sell on the re-sale market.  

The sale is through discounttimeshares.com (located in Orlando) who then subsequently use Timeshare Closing Services Inc. (also in Orlando) as closing and escrow agent.  The sales guy - who seemed like a youngish guy and not too knowledgable - sent me the 1 page deed.  It seems legit (but what do I know?).  He is sending me a sales contract to review and would like a $5k deposit with the return of the Agreement.  

-What is the general process with buying a resale?  

-Does anyone have any experience with Timeshare Closing Services?  It seems to be the only service they use, but from what I see (BBB site, etc.) they seem to be legit.  

-They are charging $500 and say it can take 12 - 16 weeks....is that usual?  

-Do I need to do anything w/r/t contacting the resort in order to promulgate the transfer?  

-Do people get on island representation for this type of sale?  

-What other type of assurances do I need to make sure that I am not dumping this deposit away?  Notably, I would be paying with a credit card which gives me a little comfort. 

Thanks for any help you can provide.


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## DavidnRobin (Mar 29, 2013)

Crasherino said:


> (I figure this goes more properly in this thread rather than the omnibus, all inclusive WSJ thread)....
> 
> Would love some advice.  Contrary to what I thought, I seemed to have stumbled across a 2bdrm Loft BV for a Platinum Plus week.  The cost is well below what the resort quoted us ($58K) and indeed well below what I thought anyone would sell on the re-sale market.
> 
> ...



Excellent questions -

I would not send someone $5K - this money should only be sent to ESCROW for a TS of this value (if not in most cases) - this goes for the final amount as well.

$500 is a high-fee, but not out of line for USVI. You do not need representation, but they should use someone located in the USVI.  It is not necessary, but helps.  I have used both with no issue - as long as TCS is familiar with USVI nuances.

That is a reasonable time to close.

Consider Title insurance for a TS of this cost - but remember that insurance is only as good as the Insurer.  I would advise looking up the Title Agency mentioned (Chicago) as I recall hearing some negative comments about them.

Make sure a purchase agreement is in place with Title Co that covers all aspects of sale, which would include estoppel letter from SVO.  This will make sure that you are getting the villa type that you are being told.

From their site - this seems like a very low cost (assuming I am looking at right one) for a BV Plat+ 2Bd loft villa - so remember the adage 'if it sounds to good to be true...'  For example, why is it at this price - when all other BV 2Bd lofts have been listed for so much more?  (this makes me wary...).  Heck - they are asking even more than VG studio.

Check other BV 2Bd loft prices - Islandia Reality (on StJ) has a long listing of WSJ villas for sale. 

When is the usage date? 2013 or 2014?

Has 2014 already been reserved? (ask for this to be done...)

Has the 3013 MFs been paid?

I would check that the villa number stated is really a 2Bd loft by calling the WSJ front desk and asking


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## Crasherino (Mar 29, 2013)

DavidnRobin said:


> Excellent questions -
> 
> I would not send someone $5K - this money should only be sent to ESCROW for a TS of this value (if not in most cases) - this goes for the final amount as well.
> 
> ...



Thanks David - the $5K was to go to TCS - sorry if I wasn't clear. 

Who obtains estoppel letter from SVO - is that what TCS does?  

Also, it doesn't seem like I will know the identity of the seller - Discount Timeshares is listed as authorized agent.  Is that normal?


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## DavidnRobin (Mar 29, 2013)

Crasherino said:


> Thanks David - the $5K was to go to TCS - sorry if I wasn't clear.
> 
> Who obtains estoppel letter from SVO - is that what TCS does?
> 
> Also, it doesn't seem like I will know the identity of the seller - Discount Timeshares is listed as authorized agent.  Is that normal?



I added more comments to my post.

Is it actually TCS that will be holding ESCROW?  I am not sure if that is correct - I would check on this.

TCS will request estoppel letter.  They can act as agent, but the seller info will be on deed transfer paperwork (this is how I found the sellers of my week) - it said Chicago Title on their website...


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## Crasherino (Mar 31, 2013)

Is there any place on TUG that has a sample Purchase and Sale contract?  I realize that a timeshare contract will not be as detailed as a typical real estate contract but I am wondering what the typical reps and warranties are for deals of these types.


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## LisaRex (Mar 31, 2013)

Crasherino said:


> Is there any place on TUG that has a sample Purchase and Sale contract?  I realize that a timeshare contract will not be as detailed as a typical real estate contract but I am wondering what the typical reps and warranties are for deals of these types.



http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showpost.php?p=99&postcount=1

See the link to timesharing today website.


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## tomandrobin (Apr 6, 2013)

Late chiming in here.....real late. 

We own 1 week fixed at WSJ and 2 weeks float, all three in the Bay Vista section. The fixed week is for the unit Robin wants, with the views she desires. The float week are to satisfy our fluctuating vacation schedule and so we can add 1 or 2 additional units the same week as our fixed week, or add weeks before/after our fixed week. 

We now feel we have the flexibility for a long trip, a big trip or several trips in a year. All our unit are EOY, so its 2 years between trips.


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## SMHarman (Apr 6, 2013)

Property taxes also need to be included in WSJ purchase contracts.


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## DavidnRobin (Apr 6, 2013)

SMHarman said:


> Property taxes also need to be included in WSJ purchase contracts.



Correct, but only for resale WSJ-VG VOIs, as if I understand correctly - they are incorporated in the BV MFs.


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## fmzip (May 8, 2013)

We love St John and just got back from our two week marriage/honeymoon.

It was suggested to use during our last visit from a friend of ours that lives on the island to consider a timeshare instead of renting a villa if we plan to keep coming back year after year. This is how I came to find this forum. 

I am sort of scratching my head at first glance as to how this is more cost effective than renting a villa instead for week or two with the fees being as high as they are? Am I reading it correctly at $2486 per year plus the outlay of the weeks cost of the unit? Or is it a 52th of the $2486 that we'd pay? Example:

http://www.sellmytimesharenow.com/timeshares/index/content/details/AdNumber/744207/

As it would be just my wife and I, we wouldn't need more than a one bedroom. The past two years we've rented some fairly grand villas at $3500  per week.

Can someone clear this up for me with some math on how a timeshare would be a worthwhile investment over a 10-20 year period in St John?  Granted I wouldn't be spending $3500 a week but at $3500 I have a mansion and no commitment.

Thanks in advance, Fran


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## jarta (May 8, 2013)

^^^  In the 2013 MF Sticky at the top of the TUG Starwood Home Page:

WSJ VGV MFs 2013 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Terrace Suite (studio): $1443.48
Townhouse Suite (1Bd): $1924.71
2-Bd Townhouse: $2405.94 (MF=$1954.98, RR=$450.96)
2-Bd Premium: $2886.97
3-Bd Pool Villa/Premium: $2887.17

1.8% decrease from 2012 

WSJ is made up of 2 phases - VG and BV.  BV only has 2-br and 3-br non-lockoff units.  They are almost all float weeks (reserve in season).  VG also only has non-lockoff units. They are almost all fixed weeks (reserve your set week).

The MFs at WSJ are quite high, but not as high as you think.  Your information about a yearly MF of $3,500 for a 1-Br week is wrong.   Salty


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## fmzip (May 8, 2013)

Are these fees per "week", per owner, or annual as an owner regardless of how many weeks you have? I see $2800 and was using $3000 as a round number. And as an owner you are responsible also for a weekly percentage of the property taxes, correct? 

What is "RR" under the two bedroom condo and what is a lockoff? Sorry for the newbie questions, been reading the forum non-stop for the past eight hours! I am just trying to understand the total annual outlay  if I were to consider buying a timeshare for 1 or two weeks before I delve any further. 

If I have to outlay $2800 annually for a week's stay plus the initial oulay for the unit, I think I'd rather spend $3500 on a house each trip and have more exclusivity and no ties. 

I must be missing something here.....

The $3500 number I referred to was for a week's rental of a high-end villa in comparison



jarta said:


> ^^^  In the 2013 MF Sticky at the top of the TUG Starwood Home Page:
> 
> WSJ VGV MFs 2013
> 
> ...


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## tomandrobin (May 8, 2013)

> Are these fees per "week", per owner, or annual as an owner regardless of how many weeks you have? I see $2800 and was using $3000 as a round number. And as an owner you are responsible also for a weekly percentage of the property taxes, correct?



The fee is per week. 


> What is "RR" under the two bedroom condo and what is a lockoff? Sorry for the newbie questions, been reading the forum non-stop for the past eight hours! I am just trying to understand the total annual outlay  if I were to consider buying a timeshare for 1 or two weeks before I delve any further.



The RR was for a special assessment, I believe. A lock-off unit can be "locked-off into two units.....a one bedroom and a studio. 


> If I have to outlay $2800 annually for a week's stay plus the initial oulay for the unit, I think I'd rather spend $3500 on a house each trip and have more exclusivity and no ties.
> 
> I must be missing something here.....



No, you are not missing anything. 


> The $3500 number I referred to was for a week's rental of a high-end villa in comparison



$3500 is a good price for the Villa rental. I would assume that is inclusive of all fees. Again, I am guessing that price does not include housecleaning and resort amenities.


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## tomandrobin (May 8, 2013)

Just to note.....There are two phases to WSJ timeshares. We own at the newer phase, Bay Vista. The MF on the two-bedroom loft is $2,176 per year.


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## Henry M. (May 8, 2013)

jarta said:


> BV only has 2-br and 3-br lockoff units.



The BV nits cannot be locked off. You have to use the whole unit at once.


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## jarta (May 8, 2013)

emuyshondt said:


> The BV nits cannot be locked off. You have to use the whole unit at once.



You are correct.  Don't know what I was thinking.  I'll change.   Salty


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## fmzip (May 8, 2013)

tomandrobin said:


> Just to note.....There are two phases to WSJ timeshares. We own at the newer phase, Bay Vista. The MF on the two-bedroom loft is $2,176 per year.




Is Bay Vista the units on top of the hill I see when driving into Cruz Bay?

So is the $2176 are the total annual current outlay  for your 1 week timeshare? Plus the cost of the initial outlay of the 1 week ownership?

I am trying to determine if this really makes sense for me and what the draw is for the timeshare versus renting a nice villa each year. 

If the unit costs 15K for the week for example, that outlay average over a 15 year period means that the unit costs $3176 per week. At the end of the 15 year period, I could sell the unit and hopefully get my money back or keep it and just keep paying the fees. Just trying to determine if this is good plan as in 15 years I will be 62, close to retiring or retired. 

$3K for a week sounds expensive, can rent a month in Florida for that lol. But there is NOTHING on the planet like St. John!

There are lots of really nice villas for $3500 or less to rent in st John. We've used this company over the past two years with great success.
http://www.vivacations.com/

I wish there was a private home with high end amenities to suite just a couple. All the nice villas are 3 bedrooms or more and are just plain overkill for us which is why I got intrigued by the timeshare idea.


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## jarta (May 8, 2013)

fmzip said:


> Is Bay Vista the units on top of the hill I see when driving into Cruz Bay?
> 
> I am trying to determine if this really makes sense for me and what the draw is for the timeshare versus renting a nice villa each year. ...
> 
> ...



Timesharing has lots of factors to consider.  Right now a 1-br is about right - as long as you and your wife are the only guests.  But, what happens if you start a family?  What about vacationing with friends?

Also, are you comfortable with a fixed week during the school year when you have school age kids?  The 1-brs at WSJ VG are fixed weeks.  What about air fare for more than 2?

WSJ is mainly for those who will use their week to vacation every year.  Wonderful place!  But the world has lots of wonderful places.  Choose carefully.  

It seems like you two are just getting started.  Do you have enough capital yet?  And, please, consider buying elsewhere and occasionally trading into WSJ.  It's not easily done, but it's not impossible.  GLTY!   Salty


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## SMHarman (May 8, 2013)

fmzip said:


> We love St John and just got back from our two week marriage/honeymoon.
> 
> It was suggested to use during our last visit from a friend of ours that lives on the island to consider a timeshare instead of renting a villa if we plan to keep coming back year after year. This is how I came to find this forum.
> 
> ...


Sell my timeshare now prices are usually on the high end of things.  I don't know the pricing for WSJ I may be off for that resort but VOIs for the Cancun resort on there were out by a factor of 10.

I think in another post of yours you mentioned a site with more accurate values but there are certainly not bidding wars on timeshare interests.  Offer low to get the conversation started.


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## alexadeparis (May 9, 2013)

Fran see my response on the main st john thread, however the short answer is you are not missing anything from your analysis about the  mf being expensive and right now it may be best for you to rent unless you really get a good deal on the initial price.


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## SMHarman (May 9, 2013)

fmzip said:


> If the unit costs 15K for the week for example, that outlay average over a 15 year period means that the unit costs $3176 per week. At the end of the 15 year period, I could sell the unit and hopefully get my money back or keep it and just keep paying the fees. Just trying to determine if this is good plan as in 15 years I will be 62, close to retiring or retired.



http://tugbbs.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1435249&postcount=20

This is a recent, actually traded comp.  

http://www.tug2.net/advice/Timeshare_Ownership_Cost_Comparison.xls

Is a spreadsheet where you can compare the numbers of buy vs own.


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## fmzip (May 9, 2013)

SMHarman said:


> http://tugbbs.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1435249&postcount=20
> 
> This is a recent, actually traded comp.
> 
> ...



Can you buy these units as well? Seems crazy that they collect $3000 per week forever for maintenance fees. That's $150K annually in "maintenance" fees.


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## jarta (May 9, 2013)

fmzip said:


> Can you buy these units as well? Seems crazy that they collect $3000 per week forever for maintenance fees. That's $150K annually in "maintenance" fees.



If it seems crazy to you, don't buy.   Salty


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## fmzip (May 9, 2013)

jarta said:


> If it seems crazy to you, don't buy.   Salty



I am just trying to get educated as to what's the draw to a timeshare versus renting each trip. I have a call into Starwood, I am sure they will "sell" me on the concept with more details


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## SMHarman (May 9, 2013)

fmzip said:


> Can you buy these units as well? Seems crazy that they collect $3000 per week forever for maintenance fees. That's $150K annually in "maintenance" fees.


I don't own there so don't know what the accounts look like but those units are nice.
That fee covers the cleaning, property taxes, utilities (and utilities on the island are very expensive).  I recall reading a KWh of electricity that is 15-20c in NY is 45c in USVI.  The staff and service of the hotel etc.  The service of the pool in the pool villas etc.  It also covers the maintainance and replacement cycle of the fixtures and fittings and the buildings (expensive when hurricanes hit)
Your home rental owner may have baked all these costs into their rental rate but probably has not, they are just happy to see some money back for the weeks they are not inhabiting the place.


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## SMHarman (May 9, 2013)

fmzip said:


> I am just trying to get educated as to what's the draw to a timeshare versus renting each trip. I have a call into Starwood, I am sure they will "sell" me on the concept with more details


The draw is that it is like a second home ownership without some of the hassle.

You know what the place is like, you can go back year after year.  You know the quality of the furniture, the facilities etc.  You know if something goes wrong there is an on-call team to fix it.

With a rental you can get a more inconsistent experience, I rent on Cape Cod most summers and have had some exceptional landlords and some less great ones that nickle and dime.

Unlike your own second home you don't have to worry about upkeep, insurance, cleaning security.  That is all outsourced.

Your trip costs / room night should be more inflation linked, not supply / demand linked.  While the $2800 may look high now, in 5 years when the economy is looking better and nightly rates in USVI are higher it may look a bargain.

You indicate you travel as a couple.  A TS is often beneficial to larger groups of travellers (bit like a home away rental).  Travelling with a 10y and a 2y, we can put all of us in a hotel room but it is cosy.  There is no private space and all meals are eaten out which adds considerably to the overall vacation cost.  As a couple those may be lesser concerns.

Only you can decide, but from what you say at the moment there is no need to rush into a purchase.


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## fmzip (May 9, 2013)

Thanks for the input.

We typically rent a house for this very reason. We like the home away from home feel and not being tied into eating out everyday.

From talking to Starwoods earlier today, I have clearer understanding of what the maintenance fees are for, they cover practically everything which is nice to know. They were throwing out figures of $1925 annual MF for a one bedroom townhouse and a buy-in of $30K for week 15  This make zero financial sense to me, can't see why people actually sign on the dotted line? This puts the annual outlay average over 15 years at $3900 per week! Crazy IMHO. BUT they give you 100,000 starpoints worth actually what, $3Kish?

What's a realistic price to buy into one of these on the second hand market, is it half that amount or less?




SMHarman said:


> The draw is that it is like a second home ownership without some of the hassle.
> 
> You know what the place is like, you can go back year after year.  You know the quality of the furniture, the facilities etc.  You know if something goes wrong there is an on-call team to fix it.
> 
> ...


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## Ken555 (May 9, 2013)

fmzip said:


> Thanks for the input.
> 
> We typically rent a house for this very reason. We like the home away from home feel and not being tied into eating out everyday.
> 
> ...



I suggest you read many of the older threads here to get a handle on the issues you raise. There are many ways to rationalize the purchase. For some it's forced vacation, for others it's the knowledge of knowing exactly where you're going, etc. Once you bring cost analysis into the discussion you'll get various opinions, but all are based on our own perspective. For instance, why limit yourself to 15 years? You might think that's an appropriate timetable, but I may plan for 20...etc.


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## fmzip (May 9, 2013)

Ken555 said:


> I suggest you read many of the older threads here to get a handle on the issues you raise. There are many ways to rationalize the purchase. For some it's forced vacation, for others it's the knowledge of knowing exactly where you're going, etc. Once you bring cost analysis into the discussion you'll get various opinions, but all are based on our own perspective. For instance, why limit yourself to 15 years? You might think that's an appropriate timetable, but I may plan for 20...etc.



I am an A&B=C type of guy. It has to make financial sense first. If it will cost me more or the same than I am paying for an over the top villa rental for 15 years, I see no benefit "yet". Even at 20 years, the math doesn't look too appealing. 

The thing that scares me off a bit is that selling it may be an issue at some point in time. You are stuck with it unless you can beg the resort to take it back. There needs to be a risk/reward here and I am having trouble seeing it so far.

What lured me into the concept was the friend I was speaking with on St John said "after 10 years" the thing is paid for which sounded appealing. What I see, is it's never truly paid for. At least with a purchase, it eventually is paid for an you have an asset to work with. This seems a bit more like a marriage with "possibly" no way out


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## Ken555 (May 9, 2013)

fmzip said:


> I am an A&B=C type of guy. It has to make financial sense first. If it will cost me more or the same than I am paying for an over the top villa rental for 15 years, I see no benefit "yet". Even at 20 years, the math doesn't look too appealing.
> 
> The thing that scares me off a bit is that selling it may be an issue at some point in time. You are stuck with it unless you can beg the resort to take it back. There needs to be a risk/reward here and I am having trouble seeing it so far.
> 
> What lured me into the concept was the friend I was speaking with on St John said "after 10 years" the thing is paid for which sounded appealing. What I see, is it's never truly paid for. At least with a purchase, it eventually is paid for an you have an asset to work with. This seems a bit more like a marriage with "possibly" no way out



You just made my point regarding many ways to justify/rationalize a timeshare purchase. It may not be for you.

I easily justified my purchases because I'm not tied to one particular resort and not one specific week year after year. Of course, it helps that my schedule is very flexible. I'm often able to "trade up" by using a lower cost week to get a prime resort (I just returned from two weeks in Maui at the Westin by doing this). 

As for your comment regarding "the thing is paid for"...well, while your deed may be paid for the on-going maintenance continues...on-going. This is true for any type of property but is, of course, hidden and irrelevant with direct rentals.

And yes, some weeks are difficult or nearly impossible to get rid of in a timely fashion. I've been trying to give away two weeks at a Starwood resort (not at WSJ) for over a year and still have them (which is fine, since I can use them, but it illustrates the issue). 

Again, I suggest you read through the older threads on TUG. There is a lot of valuable advice and examples here. Take a few hours and read then come back and ask more questions. You may ultimately decide that renting works best for you, at least at this time. You will always be able to buy a timeshare so there's really no rush. As you know, it's a lot easier to buy than sell.


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## czar (May 9, 2013)

Not having been to WSJ, I can't say that the following would be a diffences between renting a house and owning a TS. One reason I like a TS compared to a house rental right now is the we get, typically, more amentities. My wife and I looked at buying a second home in captiva, but once we looked at monthly overhead, hoa, etc., we would still have been in the hole even with significant rental income. On top of that, we would not have had access to amenities. Same with rentaing a house. Although there was an upfront cost, we bought the week after Christmas at the resort. It's cheaper than renting a room during that same time, much bigger than a hotel roo , and we (and our kids) have access to lots of amenities. Perhaps when my kids are older it will be different, but we knew the amenities were an important factor and worth the cost.


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