# Wkorv



## chrisfromOC (Jan 10, 2007)

I'm not sure if this has been mentioned before, but Starwood allows owners to trade their unit at WKORV into a higher-priced unit at WKORV-N, giving full credit for the price paid at WKORV.  For us, this meant that we could upgrade from an Ocean View to an Ocean Front for about $20,000, and the incentive was 45,000 Starpoints.  While the ocean front units at WKORV have a guaranteed true ocean front location, the Ocean Front units at the North property have ground floor units which open directly onto the grass, which for my family (with several young children) is a huge positive. 

Just thought I'd pass this along.


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## duke (Jan 11, 2007)

chrisfromOC said:


> I'm not sure if this has been mentioned before, but Starwood allows owners to trade their unit at WKORV into a higher-priced unit at WKORV-N, giving full credit for the price paid at WKORV.  .



IS the credit for what you paid years ago or what the current price is on the unit you are giving up?


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## j4sharks (Jan 11, 2007)

I assume they only extend this offer to folks who bought their WKORV unit from Developer and not for resales, right?


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## Denise L (Jan 11, 2007)

From what I know, Starwood will take the original amount you paid to the developer and apply it toward an "upgrade." 

I have not heard of them offering this for resale purchases. They aren't enamored with resale buyers  , but they most likely would take your "low" purchase price, _if they would consider it at all_, and then go up from there. So suppose someone was serious enough to ask, they might say, if you paid $32K for a WKORV OV and wanted a $69K WKORV-N OF, you'd need to pay them $37K.  I haven't heard of anyone trying this since the price to upgrade would be very high. If anyone has tried it, post your results here  !


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## formerhater (Jan 11, 2007)

We initially bought at WKORV-N while visiting Princeville, but it was before Princeville went on sale.  Once WPORV went on sale, we inquired about changing and were told that they normally don't allow such a change unless the upgrade is worth at least $12,000, but they were able to make a "special exception" just for us (yeah right).  How generous...  At any rate, we were able to apply our purchase price for WKORV-N towards WPORV and pay the difference in prices for the two props (a couple of thousand at the time).


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## duke (Jan 11, 2007)

By the Way.......When you REQUALIFY a resale the original contract documents and computer data at Starwood just inserts your name.  SO, it looks to SVO that you were actually the original owner.  Therefore, a requalified resale may actually get credit for what the original developer purchase was.   How bout that deal! :whoopie:


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## vic714 (Jan 11, 2007)

chrisfromOC said:


> While the ocean front units at WKORV have a guaranteed true ocean front location, the Ocean Front units at the North property have ground floor units which open directly onto the grass, which for my family (with several young children) is a huge positive.



When we did our owners update last November we were told that the ground level units in the front were only going to be considered OV not OF.

Guess they changed thier minds.

Victor


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## chrisfromOC (Jan 12, 2007)

duke said:


> IS the credit for what you paid years ago or what the current price is on the unit you are giving up?



It was the price we paid, which when we bought in Nov 2004 was $47,900 or so.  When they get inventory at WKORV back, they're selling them for $48,900 right now, and selling the similar units (i.e. ocean view) at the North ppty for $57,900.


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## DavidnRobin (Jan 12, 2007)

duke said:


> By the Way.......When you REQUALIFY a resale the original contract documents and computer data at Starwood just inserts your name.  SO, it looks to SVO that you were actually the original owner.  Therefore, a requalified resale may actually get credit for what the original developer purchase was.   How bout that deal! :whoopie:



It would be if it actually went through - if you bought WKORV 2Bd LO resale (148.1K SOs) for $30K - requalified it and got the credit from the original seller who paid $50K and used that credit ($20K profit) to upgrade - that could be a pretty good deal!  Of course - if you can get this far without them be the wiser is a risk, but if you were going to requailfy anyway... why not try?

duke - since you are 5* Elite - aren't you now Platinum Elite since they are giving the 1st 2000 5* Elite that upgrade?


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## taffy19 (Jan 12, 2007)

No way can you do this with the Marriott so I doubt that you can do this here either. They have records of every direct sale and further transactions in your name and all the numbered deeds of the resort too for cross referencing. JMHO. 

If you could do this, then the prices of re-sales would go up, I believe, as there would be some people wanting to take advantage of upgrading to newer locations or buildings and would buy a resale first.  

Also, I know that the Marriott wants a certain price difference between the older and newer timeshare unit and this price difference has gone up every time we inquired about it. I don't know if Starwood has this too or not but these companies are all in business to make money.


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## chrisfromOC (Jan 13, 2007)

vic714 said:


> When we did our owners update last November we were told that the ground level units in the front were only going to be considered OV not OF.
> 
> Guess they changed thier minds.
> 
> Victor



Yes, as all of the front units on each side are categorized as ocean front.  The ocean view units are the upper floor units primarily on the north side of the ppty, having a clear view across the adjacent park.  Looks to me as if the most prevalent view category is island view.  That being said, the island view units at the North ppty are significantly better than the island view units at WKORV, as the majority of them will look toward the interior of the ppty (water features and pool), and some will even have some obstructed ocean views.  I really think that the layout of the ppty is great, and look forward to staying there in 2008.


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## DavidnRobin (Jan 13, 2007)

chrisfromOC said:


> Yes, as all of the front units on each side are categorized as ocean front.  The ocean view units are the upper floor units primarily on the north side of the ppty, having a clear view across the adjacent park.  Looks to me as if the most prevalent view category is island view.  That being said, the island view units at the North ppty are significantly better than the island view units at WKORV, as the majority of them will look toward the interior of the ppty (water features and pool), and some will even have some obstructed ocean views.  I really think that the layout of the ppty is great, and look forward to staying there in 2008.


As I wrote somewhere - one major thing that I think was missed was the opportunity to put large windows on the sides of the units (see DeniseL photos)  The buildings are set further back from the ocean - and seem closer to the highway, but definitely less PLV (parking lot view).  The OFs at WKORV are full OF (about 25x7.5ft lanais) due to the buildings being perpendicular angle vs the angled buildings, but I can see why they did it - better overall views and angles for more units.


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## duke (Jan 13, 2007)

blujahz said:


> duke - since you are 5* Elite - aren't you now Platinum Elite since they are giving the 1st 2000 5* Elite that upgrade?




YES!!!  - That is why we tried to get to 5* as quickly as possible.

Duke


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## DavidnRobin (Jan 13, 2007)

duke said:


> YES!!!  - That is why we tried to get to 5* as quickly as possible.
> 
> Duke


So you have over 560K SOs? Wow! I was during a rough calculation... and that is a lot of weeks (requalified or not) no matter how you cut it.


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## duke (Jan 14, 2007)

blujahz said:


> So you have over 560K SOs? Wow! I was during a rough calculation... and that is a lot of weeks (requalified or not) no matter how you cut it.




Yes, and we have no kids!  We just want to use the large 1 br sides.  Our plan is to visit WMH for new years, WMH for a week during Feb/Mar, Kauai in the summer, Maui in May or Sept.  That is 4 weeks in a 1 br at 81,000 each or 324,000 SO.  The rest will be taken as points for air.  Then when we retire in 15 years we will use the SO for longer stays.  And, the SPG Platinum for hotel vacations as needed.

By buying resales and requalifing I think I have spent less than you and am 5* elite.  However, I dont have the first choice at the locations you have.  Its a choice.....


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## RLG (Jan 14, 2007)

duke said:


> The rest will be taken as points for air.



I think the TUG consensus is that the best option for unneeded SVO weeks is to rent them out rather than convert to SPG points.  Did you consider doing that?  

I know that if you do decide to convert to SPG points, you can get better value by *trading* with someone who has airline miles and wants SPG points rather than transferring directly.




duke said:


> By buying resales and requalifing I think I have spent less than you and am 5* elite.



I'd be very interested in the details of how you did this.  Which resorts did you buy resale, which developer?  Where did you find the resale units and how long it take to find them?  How much did this end up costing?


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## DavidnRobin (Jan 14, 2007)

duke said:


> Yes, and we have no kids!  We just want to use the large 1 br sides.  Our plan is to visit WMH for new years, WMH for a week during Feb/Mar, Kauai in the summer, Maui in May or Sept.  That is 4 weeks in a 1 br at 81,000 each or 324,000 SO.  The rest will be taken as points for air.  Then when we retire in 15 years we will use the SO for longer stays.  And, the SPG Platinum for hotel vacations as needed.
> 
> By buying resales and requalifing I think I have spent less than you and am 5* elite.  However, I dont have the first choice at the locations you have.  Its a choice.....



Ummm... we only spent a bit over $30K total for both our WSJ (2Bd TH/Week 24) and WKV (1Bd Prem/Platinum) resale weeks.  We did pay a hefty premium for our WKORV 2Bd Deluxe LO (admittedly), but that was a special present to ourselves - and that is a unique SVO TS (and much less than the WKORV-N OF that we rescinded).  Even if we were to requalify our weeks - it would still take a bunch of SVO weeks to reach 559K SOs.  I wasn't attempting to compare - I was just curious on how you got there because I was thinking about the 15 year retirement horizon also.

I thought from what you wrote on the SVN sticky is that 559K SOs is needed for 5* Elite - so beyond the 4 x 81K SOs (324K SOs) - where are the other 235K SOs coming from?  That is almost 3 additional weeks at 81K SOs each.  Or am I missing something?


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## duke (Jan 14, 2007)

blujahz said:


> Ummm... we only spent a bit over $30K total for both our WSJ (2Bd TH/Week 24) and WKV (1Bd Prem/Platinum) resale weeks.  We did pay a hefty premium for our WKORV 2Bd Deluxe LO (admittedly), but that was a special present to ourselves - and that is a unique SVO TS (and much less than the WKORV-N OF that we rescinded).  Even if we were to requalify our weeks - it would still take a bunch of SVO weeks to reach 559K SOs.  I wasn't attempting to compare - I was just curious on how you got there because I was thinking about the 15 year retirement horizon also.
> 
> I thought from what you wrote on the SVN sticky is that 559K SOs is needed for 5* Elite - so beyond the 4 x 81K SOs (324K SOs) - where are the other 235K SOs coming from?  That is almost 3 additional weeks at 81K SOs each.  Or am I missing something?




I can say we are at the exact same spent amount.

I guess I didnt write clearly:  I have 559,000 SO's ....  and I agree that is alot and I don't actually need that many NOW.  So, those were our plans for the current time on using them.  The extra options we plan on using in our later years.  In the meantime, we will either rent or save up as points.

Are you planning on using all your SO's or locations each year?

Do you also have about 15 years till retirement? .....Do I remember correctly did you just get married?


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## DavidnRobin (Jan 14, 2007)

duke said:


> I can say we are at the exact same spent amount.
> 
> I guess I didnt write clearly:  I have 559,000 SO's ....  and I agree that is alot and I don't actually need that many NOW.  So, those were our plans for the current time on using them.  The extra options we plan on using in our later years.  In the meantime, we will either rent or save up as points.
> 
> ...



What do you mean by "same spent amount"?  Is this a per SO cost?  Or total cost??? - I am not following...

You said that you bought 4 weeks at 81K SOs per week (324K SOs) - whether SVO or resale - you (logically) would have had to requalify those weeks with SVO weeks, or have other resale weeks (that would be requalified with SVO weeks).  In order to obtain an additional 235K SOs (~3 additional 81K SO weeks) - four of these weeks would have had to be bought through SVO.

I do know that if one wanted to achieve this many SOs by buying resale and requalifying - the best way would be to buy 148.1K SOs weeks (resale) as cheaply as possible and requalify with the cheapest SVO week as possible.  What is the cheapest SVO week?  I was interested in this (speculative only)after our WKORV Owners update and was thinking about the requailfying aspect.  For example - buy Cancun from SVO and requalifying our WKORV.  But still - we would have to buy at least 3 more SVO weeks to get close to 559K SOs.  (and not worthwhile to requalify WSJ since it only has 67.1K SOs)

For us - we bought OF WKORV knowingly for a $20K premium (compared to OV), but we wanted Maui and OF - and there is a uniqueness about this particular unit - 25ft Lanai/corner/large studio w/Lanai (there are only 24 of these).  

The WSJ was a eBay bargain - and we wanted to own there, but of course paid a premium on a SO per dollar basis (compared to buying something like VV - which we would not buy) - but if we wanted we could sell for much more than we paid.  Both of these (WKORV and WSJ) can be rented for well over MFs, but we don't plan to (the WKORV OF is likely still a losing investment because of the lost on potential alternate investment due to the premium).  We would actually buy another WSJ if we can fom the seller who sold us their other week for the same great price. (because 2 weeks in STJ at WSJ is better than one)

For the WKV (81K SO) - that was for either SVN exhanging or staying - we live within driving distance, parents live close by (for now) - Spring Training, but with 81K SOs we are thinking exchanging into Maui or Princeville  We could likely sell this for what we paid (incl closing).  We also plan to potentially use our WKORV studio for exchange or rent (rent would get our MFs back).

We are planning on using our weeks every year (3-4 weeks - depending) - so we certainly don't need the SO rollover to StarPoints (thus resale).  We did just get married, but 2nd for both of us - we are likely about 10 years away if our stock continues up (15 if not).

So.. I was curious about your chronilogical purchasing of SVO and SVO resale weeks - and what your total cost was (not considering the rent back value) - if you don't want to share - that's understandable.


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## duke (Jan 15, 2007)

David:

Let me clear up the SO purchase.

Resale 1:  148,100 EY
Resale 2:  148,100 EY
Developer 1:  148,100 EY
Resale 3:  148,100 EOY
Developer 2:  95,700 EOY

This was most efficient on Maint fees also.

PS:  I think if I remember all your posts....then we spent same amount in total.
PSS:  Do you have any kids you travel with?

Duke


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## Denise L (Jan 15, 2007)

duke said:


> David:
> 
> Let me clear up the SO purchase.
> 
> ...



duke,

Did you requalify Resale 1 and 2 with Developer 1?! If so, how did you manage to requalify two weeks with one?


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## nodge (Jan 15, 2007)

Hi Duke,

Congrats on making 5* Elite.  I see you took some good advice on your "resale 3" and "developer 2" purchases;-)

http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=31946

Enjoy!
-Nodge


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## DavidnRobin (Jan 15, 2007)

duke said:


> David:
> 
> Let me clear up the SO purchase.
> 
> ...



No kids (all grown) - just Robin and me.  We did travel to WKORV with R's son and mother - along with my folks - brother and sister (and their partners) for our wedding week at WKORV during Thanksgiving - we pulled off Thanksgiving dinner for 10 people in our unit - plus a few great parties out on the lanai a few nights.  For the 2 bedroom at WSJ last June we went with my brother and GF - we got engaged there. This year we are going with another couple from work.  But we really don't need the extra Bd or studio - but we will make use.

I wasn't trying to compare yours vs. mine - cost wise - we had a reason for paying a premium for WKORV to get true OF, and at WSJ (to some extent) to get the location and week.  We would never buy where we weren't willing to stay (VV or Harborside - or any of the V resorts - except WPORV and perhaps Cancun) - I don't want to deal with renting - and we already have the vacation weeks we can have.  The problem is the SVO cost is where we would consider buying are not cheap (or available) in order to requal.

I was trying to work out if using the requalifying methods- how many more resale weeks and SVO weeks we would have to buy (an where).  And it adds up to way too much (at this point) for us.

You listed 2 EY resale weeks yet only 1 SVO week.  Did they requalify a 2:1?   Did you pay less than $10K for your 148.1K units resale or $20K for the SVO ones?  Why not buy less SOs from SVO and more resale to requal?


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## duke (Jan 15, 2007)

nodge said:


> Hi Duke,
> 
> Congrats on making 5* Elite.  I see you took some good advice on your "resale 3" and "developer 2" purchases;-)
> 
> ...



Nodge:

Followed your plan exactly.  
And, got big incentive!

Thanks,
Duke


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## j4sharks (Jan 15, 2007)

Why do people care about getting their resale units requalified?  Is it only a concern for resales of voluntary resorts and benefit of getting into SVN?  (If so, would you never care to requalify resale of a Mandatory property?)  Is it the StarPoints option?


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## DavidnRobin (Jan 15, 2007)

duke said:


> Nodge:
> 
> Followed your plan exactly.
> And, got big incentive!
> ...


I had read that post, but still don't understand how to get 2 resales qualified with one SVO purchase.   Would it be possible to share this?

I do see how getting 148.1K SO will save on MFs (with more SOs towards Elite status) - that makes sense - versus buying lots of resale SOs and low SVO SOs and requalifying the resales.  But not sure which is better?

What properties do you own?
Where is the cheapest available SVO properties and what are the costs?


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## Henry M. (Jan 15, 2007)

j4sharks said:


> Why do people care about getting their resale units requalified? Is it only a concern for resales of voluntary resorts and benefit of getting into SVN? (If so, would you never care to requalify resale of a Mandatory property?) Is it the StarPoints option?


 
The higher SVO Elite levels are useful and nice to have. They give you things like early check-in/late check-out, SPG Platinum, decide until May what to do with your StarOptions, etc. Requalifying a sale helps you get to those Elite levels. Also, you can't combine resale StarOptions to exchange to more expensive locations. You can combine developer sales/requalified units. So there is a benefit to requalify units.


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## oneohana (Jan 15, 2007)

duke said:


> YES!!!  - That is why we tried to get to 5* as quickly as possible.
> 
> Duke



Duke, did *wood mention how many platinums have been issued so far? I'm still about a year away from 5* elite. Don't have that much vacation time to use all the staroptions at 4*, but the platinum card is very enticing.


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## duke (Jan 15, 2007)

oneohana said:


> Duke, did *wood mention how many platinums have been issued so far? I'm still about a year away from 5* elite. Don't have that much vacation time to use all the staroptions at 4*, but the platinum card is very enticing.




I have been trying to get that info (as have others when I asked that they ask on their owners updates.  They have posted their response).

Best I can determine, my estimate is between 1,000 to 1,200 5* Elites now.

I have been to presentations that said there are only a few hundred left so buy now....but I don't believe them.

What I do believe is that when they get to 2000 that will be it.  No more SPG Platinums.  I think this was a deal when they started the ELITE program and judging from what I read on Flyertalk.com Starwood does not want to make it so easy to get SPG Platinum without staying in hotels.  They took it away from the American Express Centurian card this year.

I am same as you, I don't have enough vacation time to use all my new StarOptions but they will certainly come in handy in the future years!

The most pressing issue is the requalifing of resales - To me, that is the policy that could change.  But, I still don't know how fast they will get to the 2000 mark.

Duke


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## duke (Jan 15, 2007)

blujahz said:


> I had read that post, but still don't understand how to get 2 resales qualified with one SVO purchase.   Would it be possible to share this?
> 
> I do see how getting 148.1K SO will save on MFs (with more SOs towards Elite status) - that makes sense - versus buying lots of resale SOs and low SVO SOs and requalifying the resales.  But not sure which is better?
> 
> ...





David:

The answer is "it's all in the deal".  You can make whatever "deal" you want with SVO when you agree to buy from the developer.

Here are some ways:

1.  Henry was able to make a great deal on his WKORV purchases because he had a deposit on another property that was stopped.

2.  You can split an annual purchase into two EOY and if they get the Regional Manager to agree requalify 2 EY resales.

3.  You can buy a gold resale and upgrade to a platinum season if they agree to requalify your gold.

4.  You can ask for more starpoints as an incentive before you agree on the deal.

5.  You can ask that they waive the $399+ closing costs.

6.  You can ask that they give you a free dinner in the adjacent hotel.

All of the above are ways to get a deal done.  The only thing I have seen for sure is that they do not change prices.  Except that an SVO owner (anywhere) can buy ANY other location's EOY for half the EY price.

Each of the above is not SVO policy but they can do things if they want to make a deal.

Does that answer your question?

DUKE

PS:  I've got some other ideas from reading the discussions on this board that I will be trying in my future resort owners update meetings.


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## DavidnRobin (Jan 15, 2007)

duke said:


> David:
> 
> The answer is "it's all in the deal".  You can make whatever "deal" you want with SVO when you agree to buy from the developer.
> 
> ...



Yes - to some extent - Thanks a lot - I just tried to send you a PM, but lost it. This answers some of my ?s, but I will resend (with a more specific question).


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