# Is one turkey better than another?



## DebBrown (Nov 15, 2009)

I'm looking at the grocery ads.  I can get a Jennie-O turkey for 43 cents/pound or a Butterball for 99 cents/pound.  They are both frozen and in the same size range.  I can't believe Butterball is twice as tasty.

Of course, I can also get a fresh organic turkey from Trader Joe's for $1.79/pound.  But I'm not sure if I want meat that hasn't been frozen for two weeks.

What do you all recommend?

Deb


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## radmoo (Nov 15, 2009)

fresh turkey, hands down!!!!
Did you ever read the label as to all the "stuff" they inject into Butterball, etc?


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## DebBrown (Nov 15, 2009)

radmoo said:


> fresh turkey, hands down!!!!
> Did you ever read the label as to all the "stuff" they inject into Butterball, etc?



I was wondering about that.  I'm pretty sure all frozen birds have some preservatives, etc. added as well as water weight.  Of course, they don't print that in the grocery ads.   

Deb


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## LAX Mom (Nov 15, 2009)

We've bought fresh turkeys at Costco the past few years and they've been delicious! Although they say they are fresh, they are somewhat frozen from the transportation & storage. 

We've also bought fresh turkeys from a local grocery store and the ones from Costco are just as good.

We don't have a Trader Joe's here, but I love everything from Trader Joe's!


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## DeniseM (Nov 15, 2009)

I can't disclose my source, but I live in the heart of the turkey country and  many times turkeys are raised by one company, and packaged and sold under a different label.  

For instance, there is a well-known, free-range, gourmet Turkey that is sold over the internet for around $100, but right before Thanksgiving, when they run out of birds, they substitute regular old Foster Farms Turkeys, for the more expensive and supposedly "free range" gourmet  turkeys - and they don't disclose this to the buyer or charge less. 

Right now I can buy a Foster Farms Turkey for less than $10 at most of my local grocery stores, with a minimum purchase.   Buyer be ware!


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## optimist (Nov 15, 2009)

I was listening to NPR recently and found out that the definition of "fresh" meat, as far as the dept. of agriculture is concerned is meat that has never reached an internal temperature above 26 F.  So they can keep a turkey at a constant 26 degrees for four weeks and still get away with calling it "fresh".


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## stmartinfan (Nov 15, 2009)

Butterball's price is in direct correlation to the additional money they spend on advertising and promotion - like their "Turkey Talk Line"...the 800 line with cooking help.  People know the Butterball name and are willing to pay more.  I've had lots of great turkeys that aren't Butterball. 

If you check the label, you'll see the amount (in %) of additional liquid added.  That's what's supposed to help keep the meat "moist," but often just makes it kind of mushy - and means you pay for water instead of meat.  

While it takes some time to defrost a turkey, I personally feel like it's a safer way to deal with the bird instead of the long "hold" time allowed for "fresh" turkeys.


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## AwayWeGo (Nov 15, 2009)

*Same Here.*




LAX Mom said:


> I love everything from Trader Joe's!


I got a full refund 1 time on a sub-par batch of Trader Joe medjool dates that were all dried out & yucky -- the only unsatisfactory item we ever got from Trader Joe's. 

The Chief Of Staff prefers Trader Joe's chocolate chips (for tollhouse cookies, etc.) over all other brands, including Nestlé & Hershey. 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


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## laurac260 (Nov 15, 2009)

DebBrown said:


> I was wondering about that.  I'm pretty sure all frozen birds have some preservatives, etc. added as well as water weight.  Of course, they don't print that in the grocery ads.
> 
> Deb



We are going the organic turkey route this year.  No pesticides in the food they ate, no antibiotics, no injected sodium solution to make the turkey "appear" more juicy (which also weighs the bird down, making it cost more per lb).  The turkey will come in fresh, not frozen.  I also bought organic brining mix.  I'm going to actually baste it this year, rather than just shoving it in the plastic bag and forgetting about it!  I'm looking forward to the bird this year!  In fact, I think I will try for an all organic thanksgiving.


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## wackymother (Nov 15, 2009)

Has anyone ever bought a turkey from Stew Leonard's in Connecticut and Yonkers? Their chicken is so good....I'm just not sure if it's worth driving half an hour in each direction to get a turkey from there.


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## DebBrown (Nov 15, 2009)

optimist said:


> I was listening to NPR recently and found out that the definition of "fresh" meat, as far as the dept. of agriculture is concerned is meat that has never reached an internal temperature above 26 F.  So they can keep a turkey at a constant 26 degrees for four weeks and still get away with calling it "fresh".



Yes... that's what I'm discovering too.  I'm a bit uncomfortable with getting a "fresh" turkey that's been in a semi-frozen state for a couple of weeks.  I've read today that these can be dried out from repeated partial thaw and refreeze.

For many years, we've been happy with the frozen turkeys.  I think I'll save my money and stick with one.

Deb


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## Rose Pink (Nov 15, 2009)

*Best Turkey?*

The one I don't have to cook.   We will be dining at one of our children's homes this year.


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## Ann-Marie (Nov 15, 2009)

DeniseM said:


> I can't disclose my source, but I live in the heart of the turkey country and  many times turkeys are raised by one company, and packaged and sold under a different label.



100% accurate!  I grew up with my father and grandfather owning a turkey company.  This is what I learned.  NEVER buy Perdue.  Never buy fresh.  You pay for more crap injected into the turkey than you want to know.  That is why they are "juicy".  If cooked properly, they will be very juicy.  Shady Brook Farms and Tyson has a good frozen turkey.  The ones that are fresh have actually been semi frozen for a while, and also have a lot of preservatives.  The frozen ones are frozen immediately after slaughtering, and are much fresher.  I was also taught to never cook a "Tom" turkey which is one over 16 pounds.  They get tough and dry out.  It would be better to cook 2 - 12 or 14 pound turkeys.  I can fit them in one roasting pan.  Have them in the pan in two different directions.  Now for making them juicy.  Convection oven these days is the best.  However, my mother always started the turkey, breast side down with a piece of foil on the rack under the turkey.  Half way through the cooking, she would turn it right side up.  A little challenging, but can be done.


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## BevL (Nov 15, 2009)

Cat's (I miss her) brining and cooking instructions for turkey are still in the TUG Lounge archives.  It never misses for me.


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## Michael (Nov 15, 2009)

What ever happened to Cat?

- Michael


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## DeniseM (Nov 15, 2009)

Michael said:


> What ever happened to Cat?
> 
> - Michael



She still lurks - you can send her a pm.


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## ScoopKona (Nov 15, 2009)

Any turkey purchased through a middleman should be considered suspect. Once upon a time, I could visit a local farmer and buy my turkey a couple days before thanksgiving. I have also had access to wild turkey (the bird, not the whiskey).

Anything bought in a store can be mislabeled, poorly handled, injected full of junk, etc.

I'll generally go for kosher birds if possible. I'm hoping the Rabbis are better than USDA inspectors. (But it's a matter of faith on my part. I have no evidence other than anecdotal that kosher turkeys taste better than "big brand" birds.)

Alton Brown has my turkey roasting technique of choice. This system flat-out works.

The problem with other methods is the difference in time it takes to cook the dark meat and the breast. Alton's technique gives me a turkey that's moist and the correct temperature -- leg, thigh and breast.

And don't baste! Basting means soggy skin. My addition to the technique is to inject truffle butter into the bird prior to roasting.


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## pjrose (Nov 16, 2009)

ScoopLV said:


> . . .
> 
> *I'll generally go for kosher birds if possible. I'm hoping the Rabbis are better than USDA inspectors. (But it's a matter of faith on my part. I have no evidence other than anecdotal that kosher turkeys taste better than "big brand" birds.)*
> . . .



Good timing Scoop - I was just going to ask if Kosher turkeys were somehow better in terms of less junk injected in them and cleaner circumstances. I don't know if it's true, but the concept does make me feel better.  

In any case, we'll go with the free frozen turkey we earned from our store's rewards card.  

I'll look up your cooking method.


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## ScoopKona (Nov 16, 2009)

Here's an article from a Rabbi: http://kosherfood.about.com/od/asktherabbi/f/rab_koshturkey.htm

I'm a nut about kosher foods -- although my love of pork and shellfish makes a strict kosher diet impossible. But in general, kosher food is in my opinion better (and healthier, and more humane) than non-kosher.

EDIT -- I'm no expert, but kosher means to me that the animal is dispatched quickly and humanely as possible. Then it's bled out as quickly as possible and salted. Back in the pre-refrigeration days, that would mean healthier meat. But even today, that's a good thing. Meat swimming in juices in a plastic container is the antithesis of gourmet food, as far as I'm concerned. Besides, we end up paying $X.XX per pound for freaking water, salt and blood at the megamarts. Unacceptable.

I always troll the halal and kosher markets for my meat (and the Asian and Latin markets, too). Since I rarely experience food poisoning, I'd say it's a good place to start.

For my shopping dollar:

Poultry and beef: kosher (or Japanese beef, when I can afford it)
Any lamb/sheep/goat: halal
Seafood: Asian
Pork: My local butcher -- also my go-to for Japanese beef (which I prefer raw).

The so-called "ethnic" markets simply have better quality control. I rarely buy "plastic packaged" meats from megamarts. There are a few exceptions and they're usually Costco -- mussels, salmon, trout and USDA Prime rib-eyes (which are SCARCE these days.)


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## Jestjoan (Nov 16, 2009)

Wacky, I asked my DD#1 about Stew Leonard's turkey for you. I'll let you know what she says.


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## wackymother (Nov 16, 2009)

pjrose said:


> Good timing Scoop - I was just going to ask if Kosher turkeys were somehow better in terms of less junk injected in them and cleaner circumstances. I don't know if it's true, but the concept does make me feel better.
> 
> In any case, we'll go with the free frozen turkey we earned from our store's rewards card.
> 
> I'll look up your cooking method.



Kosher meat and poultry is brined in salt water--it's part of the kashering process. Commercial kosher chickens, like Empire, are very salty indeed.


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## wackymother (Nov 16, 2009)

Jestjoan said:


> Wacky, I asked my DD#1 about Stew Leonard's turkey for you. I'll let you know what she says.



Thanks! I want to try them, but the drive is a bit off-putting.


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## Jestjoan (Nov 16, 2009)

*DD#1 response*

"I recommend their turkey. I have done their ready-to-cook ones at least five times. They clean, prep and marinate them. They put aromatics inside. It comes in its own roasting pan (disposable) and I think they even put a pop-up timer thing on them now. Also worth getting there is the gravy and the delish cranberry orange relish stuff." 

You'd probably need to call about the price......


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## hefleycatz (Nov 16, 2009)

Thank's Scoop for the Alton Brown site.   That sounds yummy.  :whoopie: 
I think I will compare "Cat's" technique and this one and combine for a very tasty bird.


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## easyrider (Nov 16, 2009)

I have wanted to stuff our turkey with a game hen. When the little kids see this being pull out of the turkey it could be kinda funny. Then in the game hen I would have a block of spam carved out into a bunny.  

But my sweetie pie won't go for it so its just my Thanksgiving fantasy.


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## Passepartout (Nov 16, 2009)

easyrider said:


> I have wanted to stuff our turkey with a game hen....  my Thanksgiving fantasy.



Here's a link to my TG fantasy.... http://www.cajungrocer.com/fresh-fo...ource=google&gclid=CIbW2qqKkJ4CFSZnswodK10pqw

Jim Ricks


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## Amy (Nov 16, 2009)

Does free range, vegetarian fed, non-hormone shot turkeys taste any different from "regular" turkeys (if cooked using the same recipe)?


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## laurac260 (Nov 16, 2009)

Amy said:


> Does free range, vegetarian fed, non-hormone shot turkeys taste any different from "regular" turkeys (if cooked using the same recipe)?



This is what the chef at our organic grocer told me.  Since the type of turkey you described above has not been injected with sodium solution, they do have a tendency to dry out easier.  His suggestion was to do a turkey brine before hand.  Now I have never done this, nor have I ever purchased an organic turkey before, but since I have decided to go all organic with all our meats, eggs and dairy products (and am slowly working on our other food groups) I decided it was time to give it a try.   We will see how it turns out.  Someone mentioned in a previous post I believe that basting tends to dry out the bird (I think I read that), well, the info I was reading from a handout I got at Williams-Sonoma suggested that you should baste every hour using a regular turkey baster, and to cover the bird loosely with aluminum foil (make a "tent") for the first 2/3rds of the cooking time, to slow down the browning.


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## laurac260 (Nov 16, 2009)

I was watching america's funniest home videos once when a woman invited her whole family over for thanksgiving.  She had cooked her first ever turkey.  The "funny part" (read, GROSS part) was when she was getting ready to serve it, and mentioned that she got a really great turkey.  It was even "pre-stuffed" with the stuffing mix!   Well, the "stuffing mix" was the bag of "parts" that are shoved inside the turkey.   They even showed her reaching in and pulling out the "stuffing":ignore:


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## easyrider (Nov 16, 2009)

The east Cascade wild turkey, the good for you turkey and all of the other turkeys I ever had the pleasure of eating, all tasted like turkey to me. They all made good sandwiches too. I like my turkey cooked in the reynolds oven bag, stuffed with dressing and bacon criss crossed on the breast while baking.


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## Amy (Nov 17, 2009)

DeniseM said:


> I can't disclose my source, but I live in the heart of the turkey country and  many times turkeys are raised by one company, and packaged and sold under a different label.
> 
> For instance, there is a well-known, free-range, gourmet Turkey that is sold over the internet for around $100, but right before Thanksgiving, when they run out of birds, they substitute regular old Foster Farms Turkeys, for the more expensive and supposedly "free range" gourmet  turkeys - and they don't disclose this to the buyer or charge less.



I've been thinking about this, and it really bothers me.  You are describing a fraudulent act against consumers.  Has anyone who know of such practices reported this company (or these companies) to some consumer protection agency or to some news agency?


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## ScoopKona (Nov 18, 2009)

Amy said:


> I've been thinking about this, and it really bothers me.  You are describing a fraudulent act against consumers.  Has anyone who know of such practices reported this company (or these companies) to some consumer protection agency or to some news agency?



_Corporation: An ingenious device for obtaining profit without individual responsibility -- Ambrose Bierce _

Suffice to say that we as consumers are not getting what we paid for. Either adjust purchasing habits to account for that, or be continually reamed by the system we have put into place. Suggest that the system is flawed, and be trounced on internet fora for being "political."

I shop at the "ethnic" markets because the "ream factor" is considerably less than in the megamarts. Sure, there are good things to be had at the megamarts, but never in the center of the store. Decent food is only found in what they call "the raceway" around the periphery.


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## bobcat (Nov 18, 2009)

laurac260 said:


> This is what the chef at our organic grocer told me.  Since the type of turkey you described above has not been injected with sodium solution, they do have a tendency to dry out easier.  His suggestion was to do a turkey brine before hand.  Now I have never done this, nor have I ever purchased an organic turkey before, but since I have decided to go all organic with all our meats, eggs and dairy products (and am slowly working on our other food groups) I decided it was time to give it a try.   We will see how it turns out.  Someone mentioned in a previous post I believe that basting tends to dry out the bird (I think I read that), well, the info I was reading from a handout I got at Williams-Sonoma suggested that you should baste every hour using a regular turkey baster, and to cover the bird loosely with aluminum foil (make a "tent") for the first 2/3rds of the cooking time, to slow down the browning.



We baste with white wine. It even gives the gravy a nice taste. We make two kinds of stuffing. We do not stuff the turkey.  We make a chestnut herb stuffing and a Italian saugage stuffing.


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## Liz Wolf-Spada (Nov 18, 2009)

Anyone know if Trader Joe's has them before Christmas or not? I know fresh is better, but I'm thinking maybe I should buy one now at Trader Joes for Christmas.
Liz


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## pjrose (Nov 18, 2009)

*Newsweek article about turkey*

The 11/23/09 issue of Newsweek has an essay about turkey on page 63.  

In part, it says:

"99 percent of turkeys . . . so broad breasted that they're too fat to walk, much less procreate . . . bland mushy meat we have come to equate with tenderness . . . injected with a saline solution or vegetable oil . . . "

The essay continues that "localharvest.org operates an online store supplied by farmers who raise happy birds....meat is finer and denser...thin layer of fat...self basting..."

I always get the free frozen turkey offered by my grocery store, but I dunno, maybe this year I'll look for a happier turkey


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## Texasbelle (Nov 18, 2009)

JennieO for 27 cents from Kroger with addidtional $20 purchase.  Have had good luck with these, except for the time the gravy packet had a hole in it and it leaked as the turkey thawed.  JennieO sent me some coupons, but no refund when I complained.  We like the white meat only and like it fairly dry, not infused with butter.  We like the stuffing cooked separately.


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## Rose Pink (Nov 18, 2009)

pjrose said:


> ...this year I'll look for a happier turkey


 
Is a dead turkey a happy turkey?    I mean, how happy can you be if someone chops off your head and stuffs your rear with soggy bread?


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## ricoba (Nov 18, 2009)

Rose Pink said:


> Is a dead turkey a happy turkey?    I mean, how happy can you be if someone chops off your head and stuffs your rear with soggy bread?



:hysterical: :hysterical:


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## easyrider (Nov 18, 2009)

Wife scored a free turkey when she bought some xmas gifts yesterday. I bet it cooks up just right and makes me happy.


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## ScoopKona (Nov 18, 2009)

pjrose said:


> The 11/23/09 issue of Newsweek has an essay about turkey on page 63.
> 
> In part, it says:
> 
> "99 percent of turkeys . . . so broad breasted that they're too fat to walk, much less procreate . . . bland mushy meat we have come to equate with tenderness . . . injected with a saline solution or vegetable oil . . . "



Brining the bird with lots of herbs and spices helps. It will really improve the texture of the meat. The problem with the "brine" used by the megafarms is it's just their way to add a little more weight to the bird. They're adding lightly salted water and little else. If they're adding "3 percent brine", that's almost half a pound of extra weight - that's free money for the farm, the wholesaler and the retailer.

I use a cup of salt for my brine, plus regular (high sodium) chicken broth, and roughly one pound of herbs and spices (lots of rosemary). Seriously, I dump the contents of all the dried herbs and spices that are "past their prime" (within reason -- no mass quantities of cinnamon, naturally).

I still get the "free" turkey every year. My in laws have never tasted the good stuff, and probably wouldn't appreciate it if I spent the money. I still go a little further than the rest of my family would -- I run the potatoes through a ricer, for instance, and deglaze with brandy for the gravy.

DW and I spend Christmas without the big family, and do something extra special -- usually involving a free-range goose, champagne and a bajillion dollars worth of black truffles.


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## Jestjoan (Nov 19, 2009)

*Turkey ratings (don't know that date)*

http://www.goodguide.com/browse/278146-thanksgiving-turkey/top#page=1&action=top

Couldn't find CR ratings......


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