# This is why I love my Marriott timeshare!



## GregT (Jan 18, 2012)

All,

I get a little depressed every time I see the title of the other thread.  So I'm starting one with some positive karma, or whatever you call it.

Some of the reasons why I love my Marriott timeshare:

1. Maui Ocean Club No Ka Oi

2. Marriott's name (and Hilton and Starwood) provide credibility to my timeshare hobby

3. My unit (6206/6205) absolutely rocks -- fantastic view, great living space.  Now I need to buy the adjacent fixed weeks   

4. I know I will go to Maui in June every year for the rest of my life (God willing)

5. I build a Maui tradition with my family -- I think my kids will want to go to Maui even later in life

6. I have space for my friends and family to come and stay with me

7. DClub allows me to add additional rooms if I can't wedge them all into 6206/6205

8. My MFs -- relative to what my friends pay at the Kaanapali Alii ($750/night for a 2BR)-- are reasonable

9. My lock-off can get me good space too if I don't bring a friend one year (but I can't request a 1BR in II for my rocking Studio.  Grrrrr.......)

10. My other timeshares give me flexibility to take my lovely wife somewhere pretty and warm a couple times a year

11. I can rent excess points to cover some of my MFs

12. I bought a cookie sheet to carry food/wine down to the grill area -- and now every night I am organized when I cook

13. My kids can play on the play area by the grill while I cook

14. My kids are familar enough with MOC that they can wander (within reason) without my constant monitoring

15. DD 9 gets cold in the pool and I can always find her in or near the hot tub (10 minute rule, though...).

16. The shaved ice by the bridge is a bargain

17. The U.S Open is always on while I am there

18. The Keiki Club is fantastic for the children -- as are the other activities like shore fishing and treasure hunt

19. The pirate ship is still cool for 9 year olds with a younger brother

20. The kitchen is nicer than my kitchen at home (well it was, until I got the new appliances)

21. You can take the bar stool outside on the deck and it positions you to look over the rail.  You can sit there for hours in the early morning while checking email and surfing on TUG.  

22. The sunset view from the balcony is stunning.

23. 4 adults can have dinner on the balcony, where the sunset view is stunning

24. I know I'll be going to MOC in 5 months

25. I know the exact day and time that FF awards load, so I can go again to MOC in 17 months

26. I would never ever ever have done this, if I had to deal with the volatility of condo rentals and airfare costs.

Timeshares -- and Marriott timeshares -- are perfect for me and my family.  The memories and the experience are truly priceless.  

Best,

Greg


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## BocaBoy (Jan 18, 2012)

GregT said:


> All,
> 
> I get a little depressed every time I see the title of the other thread.  So I'm starting one with some positive karma, or whatever you call it.
> 
> ...



Well said, Greg.  I echo several of those same sentiments as they relate to our two floating oceanfront weeks in Lahaina/Napili towers.


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## Weimaraner (Jan 18, 2012)

Well said  agree with you and add that I am happy to have rented out mine and use MR points to be pampered at the Ritz in Grand Cayman...and upgraded to a better view. I love Marriott, MVCI, Marriott Rewards and Ritz!


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## SueDonJ (Jan 18, 2012)

Without our Marriotts we wouldn't be traveling on a regular basis to the place we love, Hilton Head.  Prices for renting oceanfront condos were climbing sky-high the last few years we rented, and prices for buying oceanfront condos were simply not in our budget (and we didn't want a second property anyway.)

I honestly don't know if there are other timeshare systems on Hilton Head that would suit our purposes as well as our Marriotts do.  It's possible but once we saw SurfWatch we stopped looking because it is perfect.  (And then Barony was perfect a year later.)

Without regular visits to them, we probably wouldn't have fallen so much in love with the area, and checked it out enough to decide it's the place to which we'll retire a few years down the road.

Without our regular travel pattern that started with our Marriotts, I'm not sure we would have developed the same relationships with our children through their teens and into their 20's.  Those teen years are dang hard! and during a few of them the only times we ever fully connected were at the resorts and on the beach in Hilton Head.  Every one of us is able to relax and rejuvenate there in a way that we never had before.  Now that Steve and Eileen are 26 and 25 with their own adult lives and homes, it's still the one place that we all try to visit together whenever it's possible.  This year in May all 4 of us will be there with Steve's fiancee and Eileen's boyfriend.  First time in 3 years, yay!

We've brought small and big groups of family and friends to travel with us.  Last year 5 of my siblings and their families and Don's sister and her family all came down together.  We had a few units at SurfWatch plus a 6-BR rental house around the corner, and we had a blast!  (Unfortunately that was one of the times Steve and his Denise couldn't make it.)  The best thing about that whole trip is that the family members who we get together with every Sunday (for dinner, here!) learned that it's an easy travel destination.  That's my only reservation about retiring to Hilton Head - that I'll be leaving so many family members behind.  But they all said after the trip that we better add some extra bedrooms onto our home plans because we'll have frequent visitors.  Yay again!

About the units and resorts themselves?  I love the kitchens.  They're fancy, pretty, and well-stocked so cooking together is a breeze.  I love the balconies - we start and end most every day out there watching the world go by.  Our kids have a goofy tradition of sending those little green army men with parachutes over the rail on the last morning (don't worry, they collect them after!)  I love the space to spread out.  I love the SW shower.  I love the Barony tub.  I love the swings throughout the properties.  I love the Elvis-in-an-adult-diaper (when you see him you'll think so, too!) who sings at the Barony pool every week.  I love the SW poolbar and the guy who sings there on Fridays.

I love everything, really, and could keep going with a hundred more things.


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## puckmanfl (Jan 18, 2012)

good morning...

greg

Don't forget, someday you will hook up with good ol puck at one of the Marriott Resorts....

Maybe you can come to Frenchman's Cove this June....


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## timeos2 (Jan 18, 2012)

BocaBoy said:


> Well said, Greg.  I echo several of those same sentiments as they relate to our two floating oceanfront weeks in Lahaina/Napili towers.



And we have enjoyed the same things with numerous trades (we've never had to rent yet for a Marriott we wanted) using our much less expensive resorts/points for trade. That's even BETTER than paying big $$ to own & the exact same result!

Thank you for paying for those beautiful resorts. We've enjoyed them very much.  And we're very glad we don't have to pay for them.


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## thinze3 (Jan 18, 2012)

Here are just s few reasons why we love our Marriott's.


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## Bill4728 (Jan 18, 2012)

My only problem with owning a Marriott TS is that my DW only wants to vacation in other TS that are at least as nice as our Marriott TS. Which means she wants me to try and get rid of several TSs we own that are not as nice.  Getting rid of these has proven to be a challenge even though I'm willing to give them away and they are in a super high demand area (SoCal) 

Right now we're trading most of our TS for stays in Marriott Hyatt & Starwood TSs. My DW seem to like Staying there.


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## PamMo (Jan 18, 2012)

Well said, Greg!


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## BocaBum99 (Jan 18, 2012)

timeos2 said:


> And we have enjoyed the same things with numerous trades (we've never had to rent yet for a Marriott we wanted) using our much less expensive resorts/points for trade. That's even BETTER than paying big $$ to own & the exact same result!
> 
> Thank you for paying for those beautiful resorts. We've enjoyed them very much.  And we're very glad we don't have to pay for them.



I love Marriott owners, too.  Same reason as you.


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## thinze3 (Jan 18, 2012)

BocaBum99 said:


> I love Marriott owners, too.  Same reason as you.



Now I remember not two many years ago you were wanting to buy more Marriotts.  Funny how times have changed.


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## mwwich (Jan 18, 2012)

What a nice, positive post.....like many things w/life it's easy to let the negative stuff dominate one's mind, but we too love traveling w/our timeshares.  Yes we paid too much for the first ones, but that money is gone and we didn't have to deny our kids their college tuition, etc. to make it happen.  

There are lots of upsides...one of the biggest ones I don't think anyone listed is the fact that our grown up 23 yr old twin daughters still love to travel with us and bring friends, etc.  If we had to rent hotel rooms with no room to "hang out"....I doubt they would still join us.  And the cost of multiple rooms and eating out all meals would be very prohibitive.  

We've locked off, traded up, rented to friends, given a week to a friend that could really use a vacation but couldn't affort it, sold a week for a church fundraiser, just lots of ways to stretch the weeks/points.  We can travel off season and that is a big key; however even those of you with small kids will see them grow up and off season travel will work for you someday and you'll really stretch the value.


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## CashEddie (Jan 18, 2012)

Good points Greg!  I will share a few of my points why I like my Marriotts:

First, we purchased back in July 2005 at Grand Vista.  I have a cousin that owns Marriott and I requested that she set me up on one of the preview packages and we ended staying at Cypress Habour.  We were already set on purchasing when we went to the presentation so our salesperson had an easy commission that day.

1. Soon as we got into the program, we traded our 2005 week to Marriott Marbella in Malaga, Spain.  Marbella resort is very nice!

3. 2006: One month before our wedding, the cruise ship we were suppose to take our honeymoon on, caught on fire.  Cruise is cancelled, we get reimburised our costs, however, I'm 3 weeks away from my wedding and honeymoon and no honeymoon!  I jump on II, find a gateway to Aruba with a check-in date 1 day after our wedding.  I book the gateway and save our honeymoon!  Aruba was awesome! 

2. 2007: We traded for MRPs and combined with the points we received for signing up, we were able to use our points to stay in one of the Marriott's in Rome for 10 days in April of 2008 for our anniversary week. Rome and Venice were amazing!

3. 2009: Got laid off from job. Wife says "should we cancel our vacation for Thanksgiving in Orlando?"  I said, "Heck no, trip is already paid for cause we purchased a timeshare."  Since TSs force you to plan, I had already booked our week 12 months out and booked our flights a few months before I got hit.  We go to Orlando with our two kids and have a wonderful time!

4. 2011: Go back to work in 2010.  Booked our 2011 Thanksgiving GV week on first day of inventory opening in 2010.  Go to Orlando and have a wonderful time with the family.  Kids really enjoyed the Mouse this time.

5. After finding TUG in December 2011, I picked up a resale Grand Chateau week on ebay.  The wife and I both love Vegas!

6. 2012: After signing up for DC, we use our bonus points for a long weekend stay at Marriott Manor Club (Berkeley, 3rd floor, 2 BRD loft unit!) over this past weekend. MMC is Heaven on Earth!

I love the Marriott Brand and have been a loyal customer for years before I even purchased into the vacation club system.  I had been to many timeshare presentations in the past before Marriott and none of them clicked for me at the time.  I guess a lot of it was timing.  During the earlier presentations, I wasn't married and didn't see the "value" (I know this word is going rub some people the wrong way  ) at the time.  But when my family started to take shape and the wife and I started to do more travelling, the TS system made sense to us and we purchased.  We have been happy ever since.


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## windje2000 (Jan 18, 2012)

timeos2 said:


> And we have enjoyed the same things with numerous trades (we've never had to rent yet for a Marriott we wanted) using our much less expensive resorts/points for trade. That's even BETTER than paying big $$ to own & the exact same result!
> 
> *Thank you for paying for those beautiful resorts. We've enjoyed them very much.  And **we're very glad we don't have to pay for them.*



I hope you enjoy that 'free lunch' for as long as it lasts.  

The portions will probably decrease in size as time goes on and the economy resumes its growth.  

At some point the free lunch buffet will be closed - - - for non owners.


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## BocaBum99 (Jan 18, 2012)

thinze3 said:


> Now I remember not two many years ago you were wanting to buy more Marriotts.  Funny how times have changed.



Yeah, what changed is Marriott got really stupid.  It could have been the best in the industry.  Instead, they made it one of the worst.


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## BocaBum99 (Jan 18, 2012)

windje2000 said:


> I hope you enjoy that 'free lunch' for as long as it lasts.
> 
> The portions will probably decrease in size as time goes on and the economy resumes its growth.
> 
> At some point the free lunch buffet will be closed - - - for non owners.



Not likely.  There will always be owners who need help disposing of their timeshares either for rent or for resale.  There will be an unlimited source of cheap inventory.


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## m61376 (Jan 18, 2012)

For us it's simple- great vacations with family and friends (including vacations with adult kids that likely wouldn't take place and the ability to offer friends accommodations for trips that they otherwise wouldn't take), resort quality amenities, space for everyone to spread put, kitchen facilities which are conducive to not having to start the day by where to go for breakfast and gives us the ability to dine in a few nights if we want to, and knowing that we can return a few times a year to a place we love- or choose to trade and experience someplace new.

And let's not forget enjoying our obsessive time spent on this forum, and enjoying "talking" with all the people on this board


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## MOXJO7282 (Jan 18, 2012)

timeos2 said:


> And we have enjoyed the same things with numerous trades (we've never had to rent yet for a Marriott we wanted) using our much less expensive resorts/points for trade. That's even BETTER than paying big $$ to own & the exact same result!
> 
> Thank you for paying for those beautiful resorts. We've enjoyed them very much.  And we're very glad we don't have to pay for them.



"The exact same result" is what is very, very subjective. You could never do what GregT and I do for our families without owning a primetime Marriott.

Maybe the "exact same" to you is smaller accommodations during off season but you're never going to have the "exact same result" of a 2BDRM OV/OF Maui Marriott during prime time. 

Yes we paid a premium, and yes the value has gone down but overall a Maui Marriott 2BDRM with a view, (like many other 2BDRM prime Marriotts) when used properly still has tremendous value unlike most other non-Marriotts that were never as nice as a Marriott and are now worth a $1.


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## MOXJO7282 (Jan 18, 2012)

BocaBum99 said:


> Yeah, what changed is Marriott got really stupid.  It could have been the best in the industry.  Instead, they made it one of the worst.



I don't agree with that at all. To me Marriott remains the best. Not without its issues but overall from what I see it is the best.


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## m61376 (Jan 18, 2012)

MOXJO7282 said:


> I don't agree with that at all. To me Marriott remains the best. Not without its issues but overall from what I see it is the best.



I totally agree.
I was quite vociferous in my comments on how disappointed I was (and am) with the DC points program. I still feel it is a travesty that some owners were allotted less points than it would cost to reserve a unit that Marriott itself rents for half the price of the unit I'd be giving up. So, clearly, I see flaws with the new program.

That said, Marriott still has some amazing properties and beautiful units in terrific locations, with resort quality services. Not to knock them at all, but I had the opportunity this summer to visit a much regaled Starwood property and I must say I was surprised at how much nicer the Marriott units were. Admittedly, the lock-out unit of the 3BR I had was nicer in the Starwood unit, but overall the Marriott units that I have been to are much nicer than even their comparable competitors.

So, while I agree with some of the posts that Marriott could have done better by its customers with the DC program, overall I still feel that week ownership and use has tremendous value- in every sense of the word.


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## SueDonJ (Jan 18, 2012)

BocaBum99 said:


> Yeah, what changed is Marriott got really stupid.  It could have been the best in the industry.  Instead, they made it one of the worst.





MOXJO7282 said:


> I don't agree with that at all. To me Marriott remains the best. Not without its issues but overall from what I see it is the best.



I'm with you, Joe.  Marriott still offers a very nice product for those of us who want to own and use the particular prime intervals that work very nicely with our vacation schedules, wants and needs, within Marriott's new and old systems.

Marriott no longer works particularly well for those who want to take advantage of a rental market for personal gain through other folks' ownerships.  I don't feel badly for those folks.


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## pianodinosaur (Jan 18, 2012)

I hope this thread makes it to the TUG Newsletter.  We had a great time last year at the JW Guanacaste in Costa Rica and at Marriott Mountain Valley Lodge in 2011.  We will be exchanging into The Royal Islander in June 2012.


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## timeos2 (Jan 18, 2012)

windje2000 said:


> I hope you enjoy that 'free lunch' for as long as it lasts.
> 
> The portions will probably decrease in size as time goes on and the economy resumes its growth.
> 
> At some point the free lunch buffet will be closed - - - for non owners.



There will never be a shortage as any Marriott owner that wants to go someplace other than the few where Marriott has a presence has to deposit to go.  All it takes is one available & that $1 timeshare can get it. 

Actually the purchase price of any timeshare, be it $1 resale or $50K+ retail - means zero.  They all - even Marriott - will bring back pennies on the retail dollar in the long run. Purchase price buys you nothing but the right to pay the fees & use a time period each use year.  Thats where Marriott & other names fall down.  While they are nice they are not worth the minimum of 1/3 more in name overhead they all get.  The quality can be and is the same at highend non-names but the fees are much lower (usually).  Those fees are the true cost of any timeshare and with fees too high the value despite the quality the value just isn't there. Especially when it is so easy to trade in or rent (yes, even Marriotts are extremely easy to rent now  - easier and far more specific as to date/unit type than trading is) so a high fee means little or no resale value. People just don't want to get tied to those expenses. 

Make no mistake - Marriott resorts are very nice, but not worth the premium it costs to be an owner.


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## Carol C (Jan 18, 2012)

SueDonJ said:


> Without our Marriotts we wouldn't be traveling on a regular basis to the place we love, Hilton Head.  Prices for renting oceanfront condos were climbing sky-high the last few years we rented, and prices for buying oceanfront condos were simply not in our budget (and we didn't want a second property anyway.)
> 
> I honestly don't know if there are other timeshare systems on Hilton Head that would suit our purposes as well as our Marriotts do.  It's possible but once we saw SurfWatch we stopped looking because it is perfect.  (And then Barony was perfect a year later.)
> 
> Without regular visits to them, we probably wouldn't have fallen so much in love with the area, and checked it out enough to decide it's the place to which we'll retire a few years down the road.



I could echo everything you said above! I'll be moving to SC for retirement, because I fell in love with that area visiting HHI, Edisto, Charleston and Santee. Marriotts and Wyndhams played a big part in introducing me to the wonderful lifestyle of the low country of SC.


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## windje2000 (Jan 18, 2012)

timeos2 said:


> There will never be a shortage as any Marriott owner that wants to go someplace other than the few where Marriott has a presence has to deposit to go.  All it takes is one available & that $1 timeshare can get it.
> 
> Actually the purchase price of any timeshare, be it $1 resale or $50K+ retail - means zero.  They all - even Marriott - will bring back pennies on the retail dollar in the long run. Purchase price buys you nothing but the right to pay the fees & use a time period each use year.  Thats where Marriott & other names fall down.  While they are nice they are not worth the minimum of 1/3 more in name overhead they all get.  The quality can be and is the same at highend non-names but the fees are much lower (usually).  Those fees are the true cost of any timeshare and with fees too high the value despite the quality the value just isn't there. Especially when it is so easy to trade in or rent (yes, even Marriotts are extremely easy to rent now  - easier and far more specific as to date/unit type than trading is) so a high fee means little or no resale value. People just don't want to get tied to those expenses.
> 
> Make no mistake - Marriott resorts are very nice, but not worth the premium it costs to be an owner.



No question the cost of the occupancy is in the MF.  

For about $1K/yr I get a week beachfront in a very nice fully equipped 2BR villa . . . in a place I want to be . . . in a season I want to be there.  

As an owner I have much much greater assurance I can achieve that (or the other trades I may want) than you as a non owner.  

The program works well for me and the value is there for me.  That's my subjective judgement.  YMMV.  

If you can live off the crumbs, more power to you.


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## thinze3 (Jan 18, 2012)

So I could have bought a $1 timeshare with MF's half of what I'm paying and still have gone to KoOlina, Waiohai & Maui Ocean Club during the prime summer season and stayed in a 2BR units? I could have planned all this a year in advance so that I could get the exact dates I needed to match my families schedule and get the good air fares?

Oh yeah, and Westin Ka'anapali as well? (traded with a Tugger)

I tried to trade my 3BR Christie Lodge into KoOlina but the trade came through instead using one of my other Marriott's. hmmm?

I did trade my CL into Legends Edge once, does that count the same.


Damn I must be stupid.


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## timeos2 (Jan 18, 2012)

thinze3 said:


> So I could have bought a $1 timeshare with MF's half of what I'm paying and still have gone to KoOlina, Waiohai & Maui Ocean Club during the prime summer season and stayed in a 2BR units? I could have planned all this a year in advance so that I could get the exact dates I needed to match my families schedule and get the good air fares?
> 
> Oh yeah, and Westin Ka'anapali as well? (traded with a Tugger)
> 
> ...




No, not stupid (if you meant it seriously - I bet you didn't) but not  using the timeshare processes such as trade and rental to your best  advantage. No doubt it can be easier (although as recent postings show  not THAT easy to get what you want) as an owner - but still no  guarantees.  It is now very easy to look for a rental - and specify  exactly what resort/time/even view - and get it for the annual fees or  just slightly more.  Trades have less ability to get that specific but  date & resort is still doable.  And those tend to be below annual  fees by a good amount. 

The fallacy that you can't get the prime times just isn't true. In fact  savvy owners purposely get the best times - especially for rentals but  trade as well- as they are the easiest to rent & carry the best  trade value.  And thats why other owners tend to have a tough time  getting them to use. It's the pros that really know the game that snatch  them up early.  

There is a comfort level in owning but it comes at a very steep cost.  Too  much for us especially when we found we could stay where & when we  wanted  without owning.  Ironically it was the sales weasels insistence  that we couldn't do that - even as we sat and listened in the very  resort/unit "we couldn't get" that convinced us buying wasn't  necessary.  After that we stayed at every Marriott & Hilton we  wanted to visit all in holiday / non-school times. Now we've tired of  those limited locations and really are glad we don't own & have to  deal with renting or trading them.  we did love our stays though.  They  ae very nice resorts in most cases.


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## GregT (Jan 18, 2012)

timeos2 said:


> Just rent.  You'll save lots of money.
> 
> 
> It's good for the carbon footprint.



Come on......can't you start your own thread??!!!   

We're trying to be happy Marriott owners here.....(not always easy).


Did I mention the stunning sunset view from my balcony?

Or that I've taken the same picture from the exact spot 3 years running to see if the trees are still growing? (they are full grown)

Or that there is a "jump spot" by the Lahaina Villas pool where my son likes to climb and jump (not dive) into deepest part of the pool

Or that I was out sitting on a chaise lounge with my lovely wife (on the night before we had to go) -- and the sprinklers came on?

Or that I left the sliding glass door open (which we saw while parasailing) and when we came back, there was a bird on my computer (and bird poop all over the screen).  He'd even nibbled on the cantalope (sp?).

Or that I invented the Tibber Tai for a lower-sugar tropical drink?  (Diet Hansen's Tangerine Lime and Captain Morgan's Spiced Rum)

Or that we play freeze tag on the Lahaina Villas lawn every year?

Maui No Kai Oi......today I love my Marriotts!


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## Beefnot (Jan 18, 2012)

Timeos2, you're such a buzz kill.  Granted, I'm ecstatic that I was able to renege on my Marriott TS after completing the purchase, especially once I later learned that I can easily get there during the times when I'm able to travel on exchange with my cheapie Orlando trader.  However, I see a lot of fantastic reasons for owners to love their Marriott.  Marriott is a top notch management company.  And the more the owners love their Marriott TSs, the happier they are in ponying up their inflated MFs to keep those properties in 5-star shape so that traders like myself can feast on their timeshare crumbs like a king.

So let's stop denigrating and start celebrating.  I love that you love your Marriott TS!!!!!


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## thinze3 (Jan 18, 2012)

John, yes, anyone could simply rent 2BR Marriott or Starwood units in Hawaii and never even own a single timeshare, but two years ago that would have been a very costly option that the normal family simply would not have followed through with. Now, with economic issues and higher air fares creating cheaper rentals, it is more feasible.

Trading into those same weeks, then and now, is all but impossible unless you own a Marriott or a Starwood. I agree that premium weeks are indeed reserved by Marriott owners and deposited, but those same premium units have a waiting list by other Marriott owners, which is why I could not get one using a 3BR ski week using an independent timeshare.

Simply put, I would never have taken my family on these types of trips had it not been for discovering timesharing first and Marriott second.  Neither would I have ever gone on a first class European second honeymoon had I not been introduced to Marriott.

Maybe, just maybe, we would have vacationed in a different way, like mountain climbing or cycling, that would have been just as fun.  That part I don't know. 

Now time to start planning my 2013 vacation. Let's celebrate


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## dioxide45 (Jan 18, 2012)

GregT said:


> Come on......can't you start your own thread??!!!



No need to start his own, there is a cr@p on Marriott thread already  .



Beefnot said:


> Timeos2, you're such a buzz kill. So let's stop denigrating and start celebrating.  I love that you love your Marriott TS!!!!!



I agree, there are certain people who seem to make it their goal to bring everything down all while trying to make their point. Enough already, let it go, we have heard it a zillion times.


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## MALC9990 (Jan 18, 2012)

I will add a couple more reasons. 
1. At my Spanish marriotts we get Hotel style housekeeping EVERY  DAY. Beds made, dishwasher loaded and run. Full clean of the villa twice per week and a tidy every day.

2. At my Phuket Marriott we get the same service except no dishwasher here , instead the housekeeping staff wash all the dishes by hand.

The one time we traded outside of Marriott we were wondering why the beds were not made when we're turned to the villa at the end of the first day.

Maybe it's time that Marriott owners put pressure on our BOD's to invoke some charges for non-Marriott freeloaders and charge for all those nice extras that we pay for.

I'm writing this lying by the pool at PBC - peak season weeks - Chinese New Year - absolutely no way to trade in unless you have Marriott owner privilege and to rent you need more than $500 per day.

Finally I know I paid a lot of money for my weeks but then I can afford it.


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## dioxide45 (Jan 18, 2012)

MALC9990 said:


> Maybe it's time that Marriott owners put pressure on our BOD's to invoke some charges for non-Marriott freeloaders and charge for all those nice extras that we pay for.



You now just opened up another can of worms with Mr. Chase.


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## timeos2 (Jan 18, 2012)

MALC9990 said:


> I will add a couple more reasons.
> 1. At my Spanish marriotts we get Hotel style housekeeping EVERY  DAY. Beds made, dishwasher loaded and run. Full clean of the villa twice per week and a tidy every day.
> 
> 2. At my Phuket Marriott we get the same service except no dishwasher here , instead the housekeeping staff wash all the dishes by hand.
> ...



So you want to be DVC/Manhattan Club? Don't even think about it - unless you want your scores to plummet!  

As for freeloaders - everyone pays their fees and gives up their  week(s). Thats all the traders ask for and all you'll ever get. We can't  help that you pay a 33% average premium to have a name on your  letterhead - the units themselves are very comparable.  We know because  we get scores & comments from Marriott visitors (Heavens - they are  "slumming"!) that are top of the chart. We've even seen comments like "  as nice as my Marriott/Hilton"  - whatever.  Guess they know quality when  they see it, huh?


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## jme (Jan 18, 2012)

*thank you!  ownership matters to me...*

I'll throw my 2 cents in, too.  We've owned since late 90's, and had it not been for that, we'd have missed a lot. Can't even begin to tell you, but those who know, know. 

We've been all over the globe, all the while having 3 consecutive weeks at Grande Ocean each June, going on 15 years now. Try renting 3 weeks in June at GO. I'd LOVE to hear those stories, if there are any.  I'm quite happy to pay only maintenance fees at this point.  

I've heard this same argument ad infinitum for over a decade, and frankly I grow tired of it. We've not only been happy, but extremely happy. My college-aged kids this past summer came up to me and said "Dad, thank you for all these years here......we love it, and we just now are realizing how special it's been...." 

I'm not making that up----both daughter and son actually did that independently this past summer. It meant a lot.  'Course they've seen Europe a few times, Caribbean, Hawaii, etc, etc, etc..... all due to Marriott. Most of their friends haven't come remotely close to that. What kids skiied at Park City for 7 years running? 

Yep, away at college one tends to see life a little differently. 'Home' and 'family' and 'vacations' tend to mean a whole lot more. 

We still go to other places too......a lot.......maybe 12-15 nights a year non-Marriott/non-timeshare spots------ and those are nice, but it's the Marriott timeshare weeks we love. 

OWNERSHIP means a lot. 

There's a special feeling I get when we drive up and know "this is our home away from home". And the staff knows us all by name. I bring them flowers occasionally.......it's just special, what can I say? 

We got exactly what we paid for initially....we bought to occupy (and only occasionally trade), and man, have we occupied!  I figure around 58 weeks at Grande Ocean alone (weeks and extra weeks).  The DC program took nothing away from us, and the current "devalued timeshare week market" is basically irrelevant to us. We paid to stay, and we stay. 

We had 85 nights in 2011 for the Platinum Elite count, so that gives us additional perks too. And we have and continue to use Rewards Points, with over 750,000 available, never once having traded for points------just get them by other means. We use a lot of those each year too, but they get replenished. 

So forgive me, too, for being content, even in light of all the new stuff. If I ever meet Bill Marriott, I'll shake his hand. And I'm not un-aware of all that's transpired over the past year or two, as probably 95% of the non-TUG Marriott owners are still clueless. 

In fact, I'm wondering why CNN or FOX hasn't called me about my "Occupy Hilton Head" agenda.....

....and I'm also not going to be shocked to see a post on TUG someday about "Why I Rent My Wife".  I'll just shake my head.


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## klpca (Jan 18, 2012)

You know, as long as everyone is happy with what they own (or don't) why does it matter what someone else thinks? Y'all are never going to change someone else's mind. And in the end it doesn't matter one bit. Enjoy your vacations!


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## cwn (Jan 18, 2012)

*Love it!*

Greg, 
Reading your post makes me want to be in your family!!!!!

I love MTS, and Maui, and hope to afford to own some myself and have a family that loves them as much as I do!!!




GregT said:


> All,
> 
> I get a little depressed every time I see the title of the other thread.  So I'm starting one with some positive karma, or whatever you call it.
> 
> ...


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## jme (Jan 18, 2012)

klpca said:


> You know, as long as everyone is happy with what they own (or don't) why does it matter what someone else thinks? Y'all are never going to change someone else's mind. And in the end it doesn't matter one bit. Enjoy your vacations!



You are exactly right....it doesn't matter. I've never lost any sleep over what others felt anyway about most anything, even tho I respect their right to their views. 

I am of the same opinion as Rhett Butler.


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## MALC9990 (Jan 19, 2012)

timeos2 said:


> So you want to be DVC/Manhattan Club? Don't even think about it - unless you want your scores to plummet!
> 
> As for freeloaders - everyone pays their fees and gives up their  week(s). Thats all the traders ask for and all you'll ever get. We can't  help that you pay a 33% average premium to have a name on your  letterhead - the units themselves are very comparable.  We know because  we get scores & comments from Marriott visitors (Heavens - they are  "slumming"!) that are top of the chart. We've even seen comments like "  as nice as my Marriott/Hilton"  - whatever.  Guess they know quality when  they see it, huh?



DVC/Manhatten - god forbid I should ever be tempted!


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## dioxide45 (Jan 19, 2012)

thinze3 said:


> Here are just s few reasons why we love our Marriott's.



Where are those top floor ocean front Beach Place Towers photos? That is something that an exchanger is likely to NEVER see. Heck, we were Marriott owners exchanging in and got a bottom floor intercoastal view. Which for us was actually a garage/parking lot view.


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## puckmanfl (Jan 19, 2012)

good morning...

Most important reason that I love my Marriott Timeshares...

The Marriott Forum here on TUG....   

p.s  reread Greg's opening and I realized that we were both at the Lahaina towers in June, 2008 when Tiger won the US Open on one leg.... I remember watching the playff from the 19th hole at Kapalua...


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## thinze3 (Jan 19, 2012)

dioxide45 said:


> Where are those top floor ocean front Beach Place Towers photos? That is something that an exchanger is likely to NEVER see. Heck, we were Marriott owners exchanging in and got a bottom floor intercoastal view. Which for us was actually a garage/parking lot view.



Which one.   

















It's a Marriott love fest!!


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## siesta (Jan 19, 2012)

*My thoughts*

A lot of times, renting or exchanging a less expensive TS is a much better alternative then to outright ownership. But as stated before, for people desiring a guaranteed view, the same unit, the same week, prime time ressies, or just more flexibility, there is nothing "stupid" about ownership, even if your paying significantly more in fees compared to the next guy. It is not one size fits all.

Personally, I am not tied to a school schedule, prefer to travel during shoulder season to avoid heavy crowds, and have the flexibility to make last minute plans and leave on a whim (granted I stick my partner with the workload), so the "crumbs" are more than enough for me in addition to my non-ts travels.

When I am on an exchange, and receive a great view, and am paying a 1/3 of what an owner is paying, I dont think of him as "stupid", he may very well have a method to his "madness". what works for me may not work for him, and vice versa.

Owners or exchangers, at least we can all agree that resale is the way to go.


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## EKniager (Jan 19, 2012)

I love my platinum Aruba Surf Club week because I know that every year for the rest of my life I can spend a week on a beautiful beach doing absolutely nothing but reading and drinking pina coladas!  

P.S.-  Did I mention that renting out our lockoff unit in January or February essentially covers the annual MFs?:whoopie: :whoopie: :whoopie:


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## MOXJO7282 (Jan 19, 2012)

siesta said:


> A lot of times, renting or exchanging a less expensive TS is a much better alternative then to outright ownership. But as stated before, for people desiring a guaranteed view, the same unit, the same week, prime time ressies, or just more flexibility, there is nothing "stupid" about ownership, even if your paying significantly more in fees compared to the next guy. It is not one size fits all.
> 
> Personally, I am not tied to a school schedule, prefer to travel during shoulder season to avoid heavy crowds, and have the flexibility to make last minute plans and leave on a whim...



This is very well stated. Siesta has the kind of travel profile that can make exchanging into top end resorts with lower level TSs very rewarding. 

However its not realistic to think you can do the same during peak season and that is where Timeos argument falls short because he suggests that it can be done "exactly the same" as Greg T and I when the truth is it can be done as Siesta does, last minute, shoulder season, smaller units. Not by planning in advance so you get the exact we you NEED for prime season in a OF 2BDRM. Can't be done is Timeos world.


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## MOXJO7282 (Jan 19, 2012)

EKniager said:


> P.S.-  Did I mention that renting out our lockoff unit in January or February essentially covers the annual MFs?:whoopie: :whoopie: :whoopie:



We have done the same several times. The ability to do this in it self is a huge reason Marriotts sell at a premium. No lesser quality TS that I know of can do this.


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## EKniager (Jan 19, 2012)

MOXJO7282 said:


> We have done the same several times. The ability to do this in it self is a huge reason Marriotts sell at a premium. No lesser quality TS that I know of can do this.



And yet some TUG'ers insist that we pay a premium for the Marriott name only!:hysterical:


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## timeos2 (Jan 19, 2012)

MOXJO7282 said:


> We have done the same several times. The ability to do this in it self is a huge reason Marriotts sell at a premium. No lesser quality TS that I know of can do this.



This is what is a tad irritating about "name" owners - and it doesn't apply only to Marriott.  There is what would appear to a buy in to the sales hype that "only XXXX (fill in the brand name or resort) will be like this".  Hogwash. The ownership experience of any good timeshare gets you exactly the same appreciation of great family time together in  places you want to visit.  There is no special magic in a DVC, Marriott or Hilton that can't also be found at No Name Resort X if it is in the right place and reasonably to outstanding in quality.  It's that slight arrogance that somehow it's better because you pay more. All it really means is you didn't find the best value to get the same thing.  

I fully understand that a name gives a shortcut to (usually) finding the higher end resorts and often locations but it isn't by any means exclusive to the names. In fact some of the very best resorts aren't names and don't need to be - they stand on their own. 

And this post is a prime example. It seems the OP truly believes that only a Marriott can rent a lockoff to cover the annual fees or whatever they are looking for. That couldn't be more wrong.  As Boca & others can tell you there are plenty of resorts - name & non-name that can do that consistently. And because the non names have fees way less it's easier to accomplish with less overall investment & annual fees. 

I'm really not trying to denigrate Marriott or any other name brand as I know they are usually top notch.  I'm merely saying that if you think (or newbies believe) that ONLY name brands offer a great experience in timeshare ownership & use then they are being mislead.  By all means pay the premium if that makes you happy but don't think you had to or that by doing so you somehow get better than the savvy $1 buyer or renter can also get.  Ultimately we all get the same resorts & units (yes, even the penthouse has been ours with a non-name trade).  

I also don't mean to aggravate anyone so I'll let it go now.  Hopefully I've presented a valid opposing viewpoint and option for those looking to jump in to timeshares as that is all it really is.  I love Marriotts as well - I'm just glad we didn't buy one despite being really tempted twice.


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## windje2000 (Jan 19, 2012)

The stock market must be feeling the love here.

Click the thumbnail for full sized graph of the VAC stock price


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## SueDonJ (Jan 19, 2012)

timeos2 said:


> This is what is a tad irritating about "name" owners - and it doesn't apply only to Marriott. ... By all means pay the premium if that makes you happy but *don't think you had to or that by doing so you somehow get better than the savvy $1 buyer or renter can also get*.  Ultimately we all get the same resorts & units (yes, even the penthouse has been ours with a non-name trade).



John, we've been through this.  You can't keep misrepresenting the Marriott product in order to bolster your argument that it's not necessary to own a name-brand timeshare to get good timeshare value.   

For one thing, owning a Marriott timeshare WILL give you an advantage over non-Marriott owners when exchanging in II to other Marriotts.  II and Marriott both put this advantage in writing so you can't deny that it exists.  Does it mean that a non-Marriott owner will never be able to exchange into Marriotts?  No, of course not, because of the way the exchange game is set up with so many different variables (as well as II's whacky computer system that flakes out every so often and doesn't match ongoing searches when it should.  Grrrr.)  But the Marriott priority in II does substantially increase the chances that intervals at high-demand resorts or in high-demand seasons will be matched to other Marriott owners.

Aside from the exchange game, though, what you've said that I've bolded above is simply not true.  The premium that is paid for a developer-direct Marriott timeshare or enrollment in Marriott's new program DOES get you something better than the less expensive ineligible external resales or non-Marriott resorts.  It gets you membership in the related Marriott Rewards customer loyalty program with its extensive hotel network.  Some of us make pretty good use of the program to supplement our timeshare stays and get very good value out of that affiliation, and we don't have to exchange our timeshares for that hotel use, either, because it's possible to amass significant MR Points through other means.  Now that affiliation may be "worthless" to you because you wouldn't make use of it, but it is entirely incorrect to say that the "savvy $1 buyer or renter" will also get it.

While I'm here, somewhere up in this thread you said that the Marriott premium is 33%.  I don't know where you get your numbers from unless you have a spreadsheet detailing every Marriott purchase ever contrasted with every other timeshare purchase ever, and it turns out that 33% is the magic number.  If I'm wrong then I'll apologize in advance, but I really don't think you've run the numbers.  The Marriott premium is 10% in the MF's - Marriott's management fee is 10% of the individual resorts' Operating Budgets.  Above that, you somehow have it in your mind that Marriott consistently overpays vendors, suppliers, maintenance workers, etc in order to pad the OB's so that their 10% is exponentially increased.  You insist that because of that padding, non-branded timeshares can be furnished and maintained to the exact same standards of a Marriott at a substantially lower cost.  Is it possible that every single cost at every single resort is NOT the absolute lowest that it can be?  Sure, of course.  But what I see from my two resorts' OB's and annual reports tells me that they're trying to be fiscally responsible - the BOD's there are working hard to contain costs while maintaining the standard, and Marriott management has been supportive of the specific efforts they've made to reduce costs wherever it's possible.  So I'm challenging you, John - provide verifiable proof of this padding to Marriott budgets that you rely on to support your argument, or stop making the argument.       



timeos2 said:


> I also don't mean to aggravate anyone so I'll let it go now.  Hopefully I've presented a valid opposing viewpoint and option for those looking to jump in to timeshares as that is all it really is.  I love Marriotts as well - I'm just glad we didn't buy one despite being really tempted twice.



There is absolutely nothing wrong with presenting all viewpoints of timeshare ownership - TUG exists to share knowledge about all aspects of timesharing.  And FWIW, I agree with your premise that a non-branded timeshare can be an excellent, high-quality, option, but I don't understand why you feel the need to denigrate Marriott timeshares in order to support the premise.  You cheapen your argument by not allowing the premise to stand on its own.

But getting back to the thread, this time I think you really deserve five minutes in the penalty box.  Greg made it perfectly clear that he intended this thread to be a celebration of Marriott owners who love their timeshares, specifically because another thread about reasons to hate them was already started.  Then here you and others come to rain on the parade.  Boo.  Boo.  Hiss.  Bad form.


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## MOXJO7282 (Jan 19, 2012)

timeos2 said:


> This is what is a tad irritating about "name" owners - and it doesn't apply only to Marriott.  There is what would appear to a buy in to the sales hype that "only XXXX (fill in the brand name or resort) will be like this".  Hogwash. The ownership experience of any good timeshare gets you exactly the same appreciation of great family time together in  places you want to visit.  There is no special magic in a DVC, Marriott or Hilton that can't also be found at No Name Resort X if it is in the right place and reasonably to outstanding in quality.  It's that slight arrogance that somehow it's better because you pay more. All it really means is you didn't find the best value to get the same thing.
> 
> I fully understand that a name gives a shortcut to (usually) finding the higher end resorts and often locations but it isn't by any means exclusive to the names. In fact some of the very best resorts aren't names and don't need to be - they stand on their own.
> 
> ...



I certainly don't get aggravated by your comments, I very much value your right to your own opinion.... I just never seem to agree with it.

For instance please name the numerous resorts that are beautifully situated like a Maui Marriott or Aruba Surf Club and that have lock-offs that rent at a premium to cover or exceed MFs.

Anyone? I'd like to know because I'd be interested in buying multiple weeks. 

The main issue I have with your comments are that you don't acknowledge that in some cases you can't "do exactly the same" and need to buy the prime resort in prime season to be able to enjoy that resort at that time of year.

I've acknowledged that in fact you can acheive "similiar" doing off season while travelling short notice, but you just can't do what Greg T and I do for our families with a no name resort. You just can't. You suggest you can but don't offer comparable examples. 

When were you able to rent inexpensively or trade into a prime Marriott during prime time without getting lucky with the 60 day window.  It can't be done unless your trading something of somewhat similar value.


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## timeos2 (Jan 19, 2012)

Sue -

As I've promised to bow out I will limit this strictly to a summary of where the 33% comes from.  The primary source are the resorts that have dropped the Marriott name/ affiliation for whatever reasons. The simple fact is that when an independent management then took over they were able to maintain the standards (as verified by owners) while significantly reducing annual fees. They identified those costs as being the 10% management overhead and the requirement that the Association use only Marriott blessed contracts/contractors. In just one small example the granite supplier required by Marriott was charging 43% more than a local manufacturer was willing to supply the same items for.  Really - is there a difference in granite if it meets the specifications from a non-Marriott blessed supplier? Of course not. 

It is that type of unnecessary mandate that causes the inflated costs. If Marriott would simply say the renovation/requirement for XX items have to be met regardless of who supplies it and allow open bidding then I'd be with them. But Marriott & others instead insist on "their" suppliers & contracts - which I assume they have some type of rebate or other consideration with - and it comes out of the owners pockets, not Mariotts.  Again they aren't alone in this - it is the SOP of the names and the single biggest reason they aren't a good value.  Signing off again.


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## BocaBoy (Jan 19, 2012)

I have often been critical of things Marriott has done, and I have also been denigrated by some on this forum for being a Marriott apologist.  On more than one occasion I was even accused of being a Marriott sales employee in disguise.  I think that this diversity of positions and responses is because I try to look at each issue on the merits and very little is black and white.  I acknowledge that I may not always be right.  Even the gospel of buying resale is not black and white.  We bought developer years ago and we are glad we did.  We have been all over the world many times on Marriott Rewards points, many of which came from timeshare exchanges (not as lucrative today as they used to be) and from very large purchase incentives.  We never fly across an ocean in coach thanks to MR points.  We have more than gotten our money's worth from our developer purchases, but that does not mean that everyone should have bought developer.

I must say, however, that Timeos2 is the most consistently negative of anyone who posts here.  Apparently he is the only one here who understands timeshares.  He knows all the intricacies of Marriott timeshares even though he does not own a Marriott.  It seems like he usually either makes up his own facts or twists the actual facts!  And anytime anyone says anything positive about the "vale" of Marriott ownership, he goes on his crusade.  He is very predictable.  I am very surprised to see the word "Moderator" under his name.


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## SueDonJ (Jan 19, 2012)

timeos2 said:


> Sue -
> 
> As I've promised to bow out I will limit this strictly to a summary of where the 33% comes from.  The primary source are the resorts that have dropped the Marriott name/ affiliation for whatever reasons. The simple fact is that when an independent management then took over they were able to maintain the standards (as verified by owners) while significantly reducing annual fees. They identified those costs as being the 10% management overhead and the requirement that the Association use only Marriott blessed contracts/contractors. In just one small example the granite supplier required by Marriott was charging 43% more than a local manufacturer was willing to supply the same items for.  Really - is there a difference in granite if it meets the specifications from a non-Marriott blessed supplier? Of course not.
> 
> It is that type of unnecessary mandate that causes the inflated costs. If Marriott would simply say the renovation/requirement for XX items have to be met regardless of who supplies it and allow open bidding then I'd be with them. But Marriott & others instead insist on "their" suppliers & contracts - which I assume they have some type of rebate or other consideration with - and it comes out of the owners pockets, not Mariotts.  Again they aren't alone in this - it is the SOP of the names and the single biggest reason they aren't a good value.  Signing off again.



At one of my resorts the recent refurb included new flatscreen TV's but it turned out they didn't fit in the existing living-area cabinets.  The vendor for those gave Marriott a price of something like $850 for replacements.  But Marriott didn't "insist" that the BOD purchase them; instead they allowed the BOD to put out a bid which resulted in a local contractor being hired to reno the existing cabinets for +/- $100 each.  The only difference is that the top bookcase section that housed the TV was removed and the flat-tops refinished.  They're gorgeous, fit the decor perfectly, and you would never know that they're not original pieces.

That's just one example but over the years I've seen a few similar ones at both of my resorts.  Of course a Marriott-mandate exists for refurbs - I'd be shocked if it didn't because the brand-standard is paramount to the reputation of the network.  But I don't believe that the mandate exists only to pad Marriott's management fee, and I don't believe that Marriott doesn't ever allow the individual resort BOD's to institute cost-containment where it's possible in the budgets.  In some instances it may not be possible, for example if Marriott contracted with a vendor for bulk purchases over a period of years, or if Marriott cannot negotiate extended warranty coverage with a lower-priced vendor, etc.


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## davewasbaloo (Jan 19, 2012)

There is much to love about MVCI:

1. Lovely big units in themed and highly manicured environments (at least at the European resorts and Newport coast).

2. Wonderful amount of space that has changed the way we travel rather than being in cramped hotel rooms.

3. Good excuse to go to local markets and buy fresh local produce and wines to enjoy in the villa.

4. I would have never considered Mallorca, Marbella or Estepona were it not for MVCI, and they were some of the best vacations ever.

5. My children adore the kids clubs, something that at Centre parks can be very expensive, at MVCI they are included.

6. Having a second home of sorts without the associated hastle.

7. Using our Bonus Points from joining to stay on Nob Hill in San Francisco as well as Monterey sea View and the Newport Coast villas for an unforgetable vacation before our eldest started school.

8. Changing the way we enjoy Disneyland Paris, going to the park for half days and enjoying the resort or the local area for other half (not as exhausting and very cost effective).

9. When a firm I was working for went bankrupt, we still had a vacation because it was paid for. Speaking with other business owners at the resort encouraged me to found my own firm...we have been in business for 3 years now!

10. Having the space to take family members, and having the space to have my own space when they are the in-laws.

11. Earning points when on vacation and away for work, that can be applied for more vacations.

12. Being able to justify my vacations to my folks (who see vacations as a luxury and frivolous expense) as they are already paid for.

13. Introducing me to other lovely people on TUG and in real life at the resorts.

14. Overall, it is still a cost effective way for us to return to quality accommodations in France and we know the quality is good.


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## mjm1 (Jan 19, 2012)

Greg, great post again.  I agree with you and others who love timesharing.  Marriotts and other really nice resorts are hard to beat.

Just the other day I was sharing with a friend at work that I just arranged for a rental car for our trip to Westin Kaanapali in April and she commented that "we sure do travel a lot."  My response was, "absolutely.  We own a few really nice timeshares and we love travelling to them and other places we can trade into."  Owning timeshares has definitely encouraged us to take vacations, with our kids when they were younger, and now by ourselves that we are empty nesters.  Sometimes we invite the kids to join us too.

We are very glad we upgraded our ownerships to Marriott, Westin and Welk resorts.  Many fun, relaxing, and exciting vacations ahead!


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## dioxide45 (Jan 19, 2012)

SueDonJ said:


> At one of my resorts the recent refurb included new flatscreen TV's but it turned out they didn't fit in the existing living-area cabinets.  The vendor for those gave Marriott a price of something like $850 for replacements.  But Marriott didn't "insist" that the BOD purchase them; instead they allowed the BOD to put out a bid which resulted in a local contractor being hired to reno the existing cabinets for +/- $100 each.  The only difference is that the top bookcase section that housed the TV was removed and the flat-tops refinished.  They're gorgeous, fit the decor perfectly, and you would never know that they're not original pieces.
> 
> That's just one example but over the years I've seen a few similar ones at both of my resorts.  Of course a Marriott-mandate exists for refurbs - I'd be shocked if it didn't because the brand-standard is paramount to the reputation of the network.  But I don't believe that the mandate exists only to pad Marriott's management fee, and I don't believe that Marriott doesn't ever allow the individual resort BOD's to institute cost-containment where it's possible in the budgets.  In some instances it may not be possible, for example if Marriott contracted with a vendor for bulk purchases over a period of years, or if Marriott cannot negotiate extended warranty coverage with a lower-priced vendor, etc.



Perhaps Streamside is another example. This is from the TUG reviews

Marriott Properties
Marriott's StreamSide at Vail-Birch 7.50 (7)
Marriott's StreamSide at Vail-Douglas 7.68 (59)
Marriott's StreamSide at Vail-Evergreen 8.50 (1)

Properties Marriott Dropped
Streamside at Vail-Aspen 6.33 (6)
Streamside at Vail-Cedar 8.00 (3)

The first set of numbers is the TUG rating and the second number is the number of ratings. You can draw conclusions where you wish.


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## thinze3 (Jan 20, 2012)

Your 5000th post as noted below slipped by unnoticed.  Congrats!  



m61376 said:


> I totally agree.
> I was quite vociferous in my comments on how disappointed I was (and am) with the DC points program. I still feel it is a travesty that some owners were allotted less points than it would cost to reserve a unit that Marriott itself rents for half the price of the unit I'd be giving up. So, clearly, I see flaws with the new program.
> 
> That said, Marriott still has some amazing properties and beautiful units in terrific locations, with resort quality services. Not to knock them at all, but I had the opportunity this summer to visit a much regaled Starwood property and I must say I was surprised at how much nicer the Marriott units were. Admittedly, the lock-out unit of the 3BR I had was nicer in the Starwood unit, but overall the Marriott units that I have been to are much nicer than even their comparable competitors.
> ...


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## GregT (Jan 21, 2012)

thinze3 said:


> Your 5000th post as noted below slipped by unnoticed.  Congrats!



Terry, 

You're closing in on 5,000 yourself!! (and I remember your post for 3,000!)    And your family is absolutely beautiful -- I hope we get our families together one day for a cocktail at MOC (or MAW or MKO or ...... pick your Marriott).

m61376, congrats on your accomplishment too -- thanks for all of the positive comments over the years.

TUG is a great community, and I still love these positive posts!

Best,

Greg


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## m61376 (Jan 21, 2012)

thinze3 said:


> Your 5000th post as noted below slipped by unnoticed.  Congrats!





GregT said:


> Terry,
> 
> You're closing in on 5,000 yourself!! (and I remember your post for 3,000!)    And your family is absolutely beautiful -- I hope we get our families together one day for a cocktail at MOC (or MAW or MKO or ...... pick your Marriott).
> 
> ...



Thanks Terry and Greg! Want to hear something very funny- when I first started reading your post, before I saw it was my post you reference, it occurred to me that I should be hitting 5000 anytime. So I had a good laugh at myself when I finished reading.

I was going to post- even before I read your lovely comments- that another great thing about ownership are all the online acquaintances that we've been fortunate to "chat" with. Hanging out here has become a hobby of sorts for many of us, and it is a productive way to waste time. 

As I look outside at the cold and snow that we had earlier, I can't tell you how much I am looking forward to getting away from the snow. I do know that it would be very hard to get a prime 2BR winter week in Aruba without owning, and I know Marriott charges close to $900 per night with taxes for that time period. And without the Marriott preference I would have had a hard time matching a trade for the same week in II, and without another Marriott owner's generosity I wouldn't have yet a third unit. So this trip I get to enjoy not only family, but the company of two really close friends (well, actually 4- 2 couples), and I know that would have never happened if I didn't own and if I hadn't found Tug.

So I'd like to add to Greg's post and underscore what Dave posted in number 13 above: 





davewasbaloo said:


> There is much to love about MVCI:
> 
> 13. Introducing me to other lovely people on TUG and in real life at the resorts.
> .


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## csalter2 (Jan 22, 2012)

*I love my Marriott timeshare because...*

I love my Marriott timeshare because:

1. My wife loves them and only really wants to stay at Marriotts.
2. The beautiful nights in the jacuzzi at Ko Olina are so memorable.
3. I love the service and the care I am given when I arrive.
4. I  love the spaciousness of the accommodations at my Ko Olina.
5. I love that false sense of security that my kids will be all right when they are on the property. 

Now saying these few things I must say that I can have all of that at other resorts except #1 unless I am like at a Four Seasons or maybe a Hilton or Westin. 

Marriott's offer a different experience because let's face it, it looks good.  Now Timeos, I own Diamond also. I have been able to use my Diamond points to exchange into Marriotts on several occasions. I can tell you now that even then prime time was not happening with the Marriott exchanges and I can assume now it will be virtually impossible to get prime season with the new points program. However, I can see Marriott using some of the prime weeks for sales pitches. 

Since Diamond is affiliated with Cypress Pointe, I will say that Cypress Pointe which is owner controlled is a nice resort. I have been there. However, it is not as nice as a Marriott and certainly not in the league of a Marriott Hawaiian property or for that matter a Lakeshore Reserve, or a Cypress Harbor or a Grande Vista which are also in Florida. Yes, people pay a higher maintenace fee but I can tell you that from my Diamond experience, the maintenance fees are not that much different. Everyone's maintenance fees have been increasing. 

More often than not it is true that Marriott owners often exchange down. Heck, I feel that I exchange down in the Marriott system. Obviously I do since many Marriott's on the mainland receive significantly less points for their value than I do for my Ko Olina. However, I am looking for destination and how my family will be comfortable.  I would love for us to create a list of non Marriotts that give us close to the Marriott quality. In fact, I think I am going to start a thread on that after I post this. 

My main point is that Marriott's have great quality and that is the reason I purchased. They have nice resorts and there are lots of locations and you have a pretty good idea of what you are going to get. With my Diamond membership, it's a hit or miss and they have many affiliates that can't be trusted.


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## thinze3 (Jan 22, 2012)

csalter2 said:


> I love my Marriott timeshare because:
> 
> 1. My wife loves them ...



This is where I stopped reading.  Nuf said.


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## MOXJO7282 (Jan 22, 2012)

csalter2 said:


> I love my Marriott timeshare because:
> 
> 1. My wife loves them and only really wants to stay at Marriotts.
> 2. The beautiful nights in the jacuzzi at Ko Olina are so memorable.
> ...



This is a great post because its from someone who has a balanced perspective where John is one sided against Marriott and I and other pro-Marriott are one-sided for Marriott.


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## aandmrun (Jan 22, 2012)

*So far, we have not had any problems trading*

Being Marriott owners since 1994, we have never had a problem trading into any place with our 2-bedroom Desert Springs I.  We have enjoyed beautiful vacations in Maui, Oahu, St. Maartin, Costa Rica, Costa Del Sol, Spain, France, and many more on the mainland states.  We do always plan at least a year in advance, so I guess that helps.


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## MOXJO7282 (Jan 22, 2012)

aandmrun said:


> Being Marriott owners since 1994, we have never had a problem trading into any place with our 2-bedroom Desert Springs I.  We have enjoyed beautiful vacations in Maui, Oahu, St. Maartin, Costa Rica, Costa Del Sol, Spain, France, and many more on the mainland states.  We do always plan at least a year in advance, so I guess that helps.



Another good reason to love your Marriott. Clearly Marriott has stronger trading power over the no name resorts.


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## davewasbaloo (Jan 23, 2012)

MOXJO7282 said:


> Another good reason to love your Marriott. Clearly Marriott has stronger trading power over the no name resorts.



Absolutely, we deliberated for 7 years before buying, and we narrowed it down between MVCI and DVC, and as we enjoy non Disney vacations too (this year is Centre Parks, Legoland Windsor Hotel, a gite in Normandy, our MVCI Villa at Ile De France, a couple of nights in Venice and two weeks in an old school house in Tuscany - granted, some are rentals), MVCI won. It is frustrating as other than MVCI, the number of quality resorts in Europe under interval are minimal, hence why we often return to our home resort.


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## pipet (Jan 24, 2012)

*Why I love my Marriott*

I have to admit that when I found TUG & realized how many people exchanged to the Waiohai with much less expensive resorts, it was a bit disheartening to think how much I'm overpaying, so to speak.  I'm also not 100% happy with how Marriott has handled things recently.  However, if given the choice, I'd buy my OV Waiohai week all over again (& would buy another now, resale of course, if my situation were a little different).  Here's why:

*I love the resort. I love the lush grounds & more low-key feel it has. It's my perfect tropical paradise escape.

*I love that I've returned often enough that I don't feel pressured to rush about the island to see it all at once.  We also have our favorite spots that we return to each visit, and it's nice to be so familiar with a vacation spot.

*I'm tied to summer travel time for another decade, and while it somewhat limits the availability to exchange into my resort, more importantly, it limits *frequent flyer ticket availability*, especially the lower & mid tiered FF tix (and I don't want to waste miles on the highest no-blockout tier).  Last minute vacations to Hawaii during the school summer vacation are not friendly for airfares, so any extra expense I might pay in maintenance fees over a bargain TS/getaway is often cancelled out by my airfare savings.  

*I'm also at a resort with a very broad OV category, and the only fixed week choices are at Christmas, so I don't get the guaranteed room/view I'd always choose.  The view thing is really important to me.  I love sitting on the balcony, enjoying the view, with my coffee in the mornings, my afternoon read, or an evening drink.  It's part of my vacation ritual.  I suppose I could look for a fixed week on another island (Christmas doesn't usu work for me), but I love the Waiohai & Kauai, so I'll deal.  At least I am higher up on the pecking order for my OV than anyone exchanging in, and _most_ of the time, I've gotten fabulous views.   

*Altho I am sure there are plenty of great quality "no-name" resorts, I don't see many with the amenities on the same scale as the brand names.  For my Marriott vacations, I look forward to having all that stuff.  I like cooking and enjoy doing it in a pretty kitchen!  I have my hike & get muddy days, but I also have days where I want to do nothing but lounge & enjoy the awesome grounds/pools.  I've seen a lot of other timeshares on Kauai, and most don't quite offer the same experience that the "big names" do when it comes to amenities/grounds.  Again, not that it's bad at the other places (it is HI, after all), but they don't have the same feel.  

*Marriott+TUG. I've learned a lot on these forums about trading/renting/etc, & I am more savvy about my TS use.


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## jpc763 (Jan 24, 2012)

dioxide45 said:


> No need to start his own, there is a cr@p on Marriott thread already


First, I am sorry.  I believe the thread refered to above was started by me.  I was just whining about paying my annual bill.

I *LOVE* my Marriott Timeshares.  For many if not all of the same reasons as you.

- I get to go to Ko Olina for Spring Break every Even Year until my kids go to college.  After that, I can go when I want (weeks 1-50)!
- I get to go to Shadow Ridge and meet up with my DW's and their kids Thanksgiving every odd year!
- I have a fabulous trade week in my Imperial Palms that I use about 1 out of every 5 and trade the other 4.  Aside from a trade into a Royal in Cancun, I have traded only into Marriott.   We have gotten Maui Ocean Club, Ko Olina (x2), Grand Vista, Ocean Club, Heritage Club (complete with golf!), Shadow Ridge, Desert Springs, etc. 
- The accomidations are top notch.  We too are spoiled and will not go to lower tier timeshares, only the top notch.

But the most important reason I love my timeshare is that I get 2 weeks a year with my family, away from home to be with them and enjoy them.  I never had that growing up and cherish every trip I get to go on with them.

One memory I will never forget were each of my boys first trips to WDW.  They were probably about 5 (each).  We went to a parade in each of the parks during our week at Imperial Palms Villas.  I still see the Magical Look on each of their faces as they saw their HEROS dance by!  It still brings a catch in my throat and a tear to my eye today now that they are teens/tweens.

I hope to never give up my Marriotts.

John


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## 2boysmom (Jan 24, 2012)

*Dittos*


As a first time blogger but long time Marriott ts owner and Tug Member I want to shake my cheerleader's pompom for Marriott along with the previous posts. We've owned at D.Springs for 12 years. Early on we traded to non-Marriott resorts but never found them even close to as nice as our Marriott experiences. Neither the units nor resorts compared to the quality we'd come to experience with Marriott. Now, we pretty much stick with Marriotts. Nothing is perfect in any situation but when you compare to the options, Marriott continues to shine. We just enrolled our weeks in the destination club points program a few months ago. We had a super experience there as well. I did have to hold for a while but was able to obtain a 1-bd oceanfront unit in new Maui towers for this October. It was our first attempt and the rep was super helpful and courteous. Well worth the wait time on the phone. Take heart out there folks-remember a glass is both half full and half empty. It's how you look at it that counts.


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## thinze3 (Jan 24, 2012)

GregT said:


> Terry,
> 
> You're closing in on 5,000 yourself!! (and I remember your post for 3,000!)    And your family is absolutely beautiful -- I hope we get our families together one day for a cocktail at MOC (or MAW or MKO or ...... pick your Marriott).
> 
> ...




Tug is great a great community indeed.
I'm no longer 'closing in' on 5000, Greg. 

RE: Loving Marriotts:
After reading those great comments about DSV-I on another thread,
I'm sitting hear trying to figure out a how to get away for about 4 days.


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## tlwmkw (Jan 24, 2012)

I love my timeshare because it forces us to take a vacation that we otherwise might put off ("not enough time","too expensive","too difficult to plan", etc).  We paid full freight before finding out about TUG but still feel like we are getting value from our TS's.  I can't worry about how much I paid because the memories we are making are priceless and worth far more than the initial cost.

tlwmkw


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## MabelP (Jan 24, 2012)

I love Marriott because my July 4th weeks at Barony Beach will get me great weeks during public holidays.


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## dioxide45 (Jan 24, 2012)

BocaBoy said:


> I must say, however, that Timeos2 is the most consistently negative of anyone who posts here.  Apparently he is the only one here who understands timeshares.  He knows all the intricacies of Marriott timeshares even though he does not own a Marriott.  It seems like he usually either makes up his own facts or twists the actual facts!  And anytime anyone says anything positive about the "vale" of Marriott ownership, he goes on his crusade.  He is very predictable.  I am very surprised to see the word "Moderator" under his name.



Negative/positive opinion is in the eye of the beholder. I think that moderators should be able to speak their opinions whether we like that opinion or not as long as they are doing it from a personal perspective and not in the role of moderator. I do however have an issue with the regular hijacking of threads.


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## winger (Jan 24, 2012)

We like our Marriott because of it's high quality - we know what to expect when exchanging (yes, we bought mainly to *exchange*) to other Marriots.


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## m61376 (Jan 27, 2012)

winger said:


> We like our Marriott because of it's high quality - we know what to expect when exchanging (yes, we bought mainly to *exchange*) to other Marriots.



You are so right! It is nice to plan a vacation and know that your accommodations will be what you expect. So many of the highly rated places in II are a notch or two below (although there are certainly ones that are equivalent and a few even nicer) and while it never was a big deal to me before, I must say I've become a bit spoiled. Even something that never would have been a big deal to me before, like having a balcony, is an amenity I've grown to really appreciate (and have been spoiled by being served breakfast out there, which admittedly is a perfect way to start off my day  ). 

All the pre-timeshare years we travelled we appreciated some of the top hotels we stayed in from time to time when we could get deals, but as long as the place was clean I generally didn't go overboard, preferring to spend our vacation $$'s on souvenirs (and lots of them ). It's easier to get used to better things, and we've become spoiled.


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## icul8rg8r (Jan 27, 2012)

MOXJO7282 said:


> I've acknowledged that in fact you can acheive "similiar" doing off season while travelling short notice, but *you just can't do what Greg T and I do for our families with a no name resort*. You just can't. You suggest you can but don't offer comparable examples.
> 
> When were you able to rent inexpensively or trade into a prime Marriott during prime time without getting lucky with the 60 day window.  *It can't be done unless your trading something of somewhat similar value*.



Hi!  I just had to chime in here, because I do have plenty of examples!  We owned a red week 2-bed/2-bath lock-out unit at a non-affiliated property in Branson (that just recently earned an RCI Silver Crown) that I inherited from my parents/grandparents and kept for 10+ years because of the low MF's.  We have never visited/stayed at our home resort (we live in Seattle area).  However, we consistently exchanged that week within RCI or II or traded with a private owner for 5-star, Gold Crown resorts (far superior than our Branson resort), such as:

1.  Club Intrawest, Whistler, B.C.
2.  Marriott K'Oloni, Oahu, Hawaii
3.  HGVC Waikaloa Village, Big Island, Hawaii
4.  Several Disney Vacation Club resorts in Orlando
5.  Grand Pacific, Carlsbad, CA

....and others in Sedona, Breckenridge, Vail, Aspen, Las Vegas, Sandestin, Hilton Head, Myrtle Beach, Pigeon Forge, Oregon Coast.  We were almost always able to "trade up" to a Gold Crown resort within RCI.  

Now that we have kids and can't afford to fly to all the various destinations, we sold (gave away) the Branson unit and bought a Hilton HGVC (at the Flamingo, in Las Vegas) since they are affiliated with our favorite place, The Club Intrawest in Whistler, and they have resorts in the places we enjoy most and can get affordable flights (Vegas, Hawaii, Orlando).

So even though we now have a name-brand timeshare, I just had to share that great trades CAN be made with non-affiliated timeshares!  I'm sure there are others that can attest to the same!


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## MOXJO7282 (Jan 27, 2012)

icul8rg8r said:


> Hi!  I just had to chime in here, because I do have plenty of examples!  We owned a red week 2-bed/2-bath lock-out unit at a non-affiliated property in Branson (that just recently earned an RCI Silver Crown) that I inherited from my parents/grandparents and kept for 10+ years because of the low MF's.  We have never visited/stayed at our home resort (we live in Seattle area).  However, we consistently exchanged that week within RCI or II or traded with a private owner for 5-star, Gold Crown resorts (far superior than our Branson resort), such as:
> 
> 1.  Club Intrawest, Whistler, B.C.
> 2.  Marriott K'Oloni, Oahu, Hawaii
> ...



We're any of these prime season weeks? 2BDRM units that you received? 

I'm not trying to be a snob but I'm going to Maui on Presidents week in a 2BDRM OF Maui Marriott(although I did rent the studio I did have a 2BDRM), flying 1st class on AA miles because I could book at the earliest opportunity.

You can't compare Oahu or the Big Island with the Marriott Maui Ocean Club or anything in Vegas or Orlando with any of the top Marriott locations like Aruba or Hilton Head Island or Newport Coast because they don't compare in demand or in quality for that matter.


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## timeos2 (Jan 27, 2012)

One quick pop in just to say that mere facts that it doesn't take a Marriott to stay at Marriotts or other top quality locations/times is not what these posters want to hear.  They want to justify the high buy in & ongoing fees by assuring each other "that's the only way". Not true but they will never know.

Those who haven't swallowed the Marriott (and DVC/Hilton and a few others) Koolaid know that isn't the case, but we're better off simply smiling when you hear these types of statements as trying to explain the reality is not wanted. 

Some will eventually figure it out & convert but the vast majority want to believe and, as long as newbies don't get sold that line & actually believe it thus overpaying, we can't save them from themselves - so let it go. They are only costing themselves and those that mistakenly pay too much based on this type of thread. Hopefully we manage to educate most as to how to get far better value (as well as the top resorts if that's what they want). 

Now watch out for more flying bricks!


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## andex (Jan 27, 2012)

Interesting thread! Enjoyed reading it. 
Thanks.


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## MOXJO7282 (Jan 28, 2012)

timeos2 said:


> One quick pop in just to say that mere facts that it doesn't take a Marriott to stay at Marriotts or other top quality locations/times is not what these posters want to hear.



You're right its doesn't ...... in the off season, in less than a 2 BDRM in the less demand locations.

I'm still waiting for an example where it can be done during prime season in a 2BDRM. Those that refute never offer an example that shows a no name trade into a prime winter/summer week 2 BDRM Marriott at a high demand location like Aruba, Maui, Newport Coast, Myrtle Beach, Grande Ocean Hilton Head, and I'm sure the its the same with prime Marriott ski weeks.

I'll wait now for a few examples but I'm sure I'll be waiting for some time because it can't happen. I know this because when I realized I wanted to experience 2BDRM Marriott quality during prime weeks I tried to figure out how to get there without spending Marriott money and realized it wasn't possible.

Can it be done during the off season? Yes you can easily rent at a reasonable price. 

Can you get a studio during prime season? Sure but even those will be $1500.

So *please, please examples *of a no name getting a trade into a prime winter/summer week 2 BDRM Marriott at a high demand location like Aruba, Maui, Newport Coast, Myrtle Beach, Grande Ocean Hilton Head, or Marriott ski weeks.

And please qualify if you did get the trade when did it come through, flex time? 

I give specific examples and others just give generalizations.  Again to be clear on my point, if you need a 2 BDRM during prime season at many of the prime Marriott locations I mention above you need to own something equivalent.

Please give examples to refute my point.


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## MOXJO7282 (Jan 28, 2012)

timeos2 said:


> Some will eventually figure it out & convert but the vast majority want to believe and, as long as newbies don't get sold that line & actually believe it thus overpaying, we can't save them from themselves - so let it go. They are only costing themselves and those that mistakenly pay too much based on this type of thread. Hopefully we manage to educate most as to how to get far better value (as well as the top resorts if that's what they want).
> 
> Now watch out for more flying bricks!



And I'm trying to educate those like myself who want a certain Marriott quality, a certain size room and a certain time of year that you can't buy low and sell high like so many do only to fail and then be stuck with a no name they can't even give away. You get what you pay for in my book.


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## csalter2 (Jan 28, 2012)

*They Can't See What we see*

MOXJO7282,

A non-Marriott owner cannot see what we see so they don't understand. It is possible for them to get prime weeks, but it will be by only a few ways. First, they can get into one if an owner deciddes to rent it. This is possible because a summer week in July in Hawaii can go anywhere from $2,000 to $4000 in July depending on which resort for a 2 bedroom.  Secondly, if a Marriott owner exchanges with II and trades their week to get a summer week somewhere else. Thirdly, if Marriott is taking their weeks and using it for a sales pitch to prospective owners or renting the units at their crazy prices.  

What they non-Marriott owners don't see is the calendar that we see. We open up the calendar a year in advance and can see all of the late June and all of July and early August weeks get snatched up by owners. 

As Marriott pushes the points program and takes their inventory and not turn much over  to II, non Marriott owners will not see the opportunities as they once did. I know that for sure because I don't pull up as many Marriott's as I once did with my Diamond Resorts International points.  Things are changing because the points system will leave limited opportunities for weeks owners from Marriotts and Marriott owners who don't have DC points will have priority over non Marriott owners looking to exchange. 

That's going to be the new reality.


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## GregT (Jan 28, 2012)

timeos2 said:


> One quick pop in just to say that mere facts that it doesn't take a Marriott to stay at Marriotts or other top quality locations/times is not what these posters want to hear.  They want to justify the high buy in & ongoing fees by assuring each other "that's the only way". Not true but they will never know.
> 
> Those who haven't swallowed the Marriott (and DVC/Hilton and a few others) Koolaid know that isn't the case, but we're better off simply smiling when you hear these types of statements as trying to explain the reality is not wanted.
> 
> ...



Timeos,

Welcome back!    and yes, bricks will fly.

I agree with you -- yes, you can trade into Marriotts with non-Marriotts, and I've posted multiple times in this very same forum about the incredible power of Worldmark.

Worldmark is awesome.  I've traded into the following with my humble Worldmark:

St. Kitts 2BR (October)
Frenchmen's Cove 2BR (Sept/Oct)
Ko Olina 1BR (February) -- that one stunned me -- never repeated though
Ko Olina Studio (Feb/June/Oct/anytime)
Waiohai 2BR (November)
Kauai Beach Villas 1BR/2BR (Sept/Oct/Nov)
Aruba Ocean Club 1BR/2BR (Oct/Nov)
Aruba Ocean Club Studio (Feb)

Really, Worldmark rocks.  I think it is the most powerful trader in the system, and once the Marriott preference is cleared, WM is top of the heap, in my opinion.

However, these are mostly shoulder trades (non-Flex -- in Flex, all bets are off).  With the exception of the 1BR Ko Olina, these were not high demand weeks.  

So.....I think we should declare a peace treaty here -- I'll concede that Marriotts in great locations can be accessed by non-Marriotts, and I'll ask you to concede that getting a prime Marriott week (summer Hawaii/winter Ski) is highly unlikely via trade.    We can debate renting in a whole different thread.

But....I'm still loving my Marriott timeshare! 

Best,

Greg


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## MOXJO7282 (Jan 28, 2012)

GregT said:


> Timeos,
> 
> Welcome back!    and yes, bricks will fly.
> 
> ...



This is what I like examples, instead of unsubstantiated claims.  This is also great info. If you like Marriotts and are OK with shoulder season and smaller units but don't want to spend the extra to own Marriott there is definitely a way to do it, and it  looks like WM is a viable option.

If you want a 2BDRM Maui in the winter, not so much.


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## josh1231 (Jan 28, 2012)

timeos2 said:


> And we have enjoyed the same things with numerous trades (we've never had to rent yet for a Marriott we wanted) using our much less expensive resorts/points for trade. That's even BETTER than paying big $$ to own & the exact same result!
> 
> Thank you for paying for those beautiful resorts. We've enjoyed them very much.  And we're very glad we don't have to pay for them.



I am always on the lookout for a new TS strategy, however adopting your strategy would concern me.

One of my primary concerns in the current timeshare market is resale. I never want to be locked into a timeshare that nobody wants. With a few exceptions, Marriott's are rather easy to sell without paying anything out of pocked to do so. The resorts you listed do not seem to be this way. Looking at current and past ebay sales, it does not seem as if either has had any sales in spite of free closings and maintenance fee's for 2012 being offered. 

I would be very scared of becoming one of those people you hear about, unable to utilize their timeshare and unable to sell it.

I'm not saying this is the case with yours, but again this would be my fear. Any suggestions on how this would be avoided would be appreciated, because as I stated I am always looking for a new strategy.


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## m61376 (Jan 28, 2012)

I agree with Greg and Joe- who I think are both basically on the same page. But I think what csalter2 posted needs to be underscored; while in the past we have seen lots of non-Marriott to Marriott Flexchange trades and trades to shoulder weeks, off season and smaller units, the advent of the DC is likely to diminish those historically great trades that Greg and others have enjoyed. 

Of course, I expect posts about the idiosyncratic trades that people occasionally luck out on (II goofs all the time, so sometimes weeks fail to get assigned a Marriott preference, sometimes weird trades just happen) but this will be far from the norm and likely more and more a rarity as time goes on given the current patterns we've been seeing on II. Purchasing a timeshare is not only the initial outlay today, but the annual MF's, and I'd hate for anybody reading this thread to take John's words at face value and feel that with a little maneuvering they too can easily get the Marriott prime trades they want with an outside unit. 

Now if you can travel last minute and/or don't care when or what size unit, you can do well with off brand ownership, but it is important to be realistic in one's expectations; I think that's why there are so many disgruntled timeshare owners, because they're not getting the trades they expected. I think the purpose of Tug is to educate people as to what is realistic.


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## timeos2 (Jan 28, 2012)

MOXJO7282 said:


> You're right its doesn't ...... in the off season, in less than a 2 BDRM in the less demand locations.
> Please give examples to refute my point.



OK, one time. 

We have now stayed at every Marriott we had wanted - some multiple times - and every one in prime/Holiday periods, as we too were limited by school schedules until the past year. Now we can use the slightly to completely off demand periods which really cuts the costs & increases availability. 

We have stayed at Manor House in July, Grand Chateau for Easter, Custom House in early August and Hilton Head also early August. While there are other locations we didn't want them for various reasons (but we could have had them). We had no desire to pay for the long trip to Hawaii (much as we loved our trip there years ago - too expensive and WAY too much air time to be appealing today - a growing issue with all non-drivable locations) although I saw weeks available there when searching. 

The simple fact is that once time goes into the trade system it can be reserved by anyone - not just Marriott owners.  As others noted what you see as a Marriott owner is different and may give you a false sense of what a non-owner is able to get - quite easily. The other fact is that Marriott's - as beautiful as they are - aren't everywhere people want to go. While they do have two or three relatively unique locations overall they are concentrated in the same old spots that also feature other brand names as well as non-branded ones. So if you want to visit Washington, DC you can't stay in a Marriott - the beautiful Wyndham Alexandria is the best choice & equal to most Marriott's. Coast in CA? Better have a Worldmark or independent as there aren't Marriott's.  In Orlando there are a couple Marriott's but they don't have the excellent location that some non-branded resorts offer while the Marriott fees are a full 1/3 higher. 

I know that as owners you like your resorts/system and want to stand up for it. But those who are careful can enjoy it too and ownership is most definitely not required. 

If the source for non-branded trades dries up it also goes away for owners as it is the same pool of inventory (mostly II).  Rentals are always out there and, again with care, can be found - yes even in high demand times - at or just slightly above the annual fees without the obligations.  It may offer comfort for those paying those fees to think they HAD to to get these times but it just isn't true.  In fact as the rental world is evolving it is easier to get the exact time/unit/view you desire renting than it is or ever was by exchange.  That is likely to become even more true as the exchange pool shifts toward Marriott's seriously flawed and costly points system.


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## MOXJO7282 (Jan 28, 2012)

m61376 said:


> I'd hate for anybody reading this thread to take John's words at face value and feel that with a little maneuvering they too can easily get the Marriott prime trades they want with an outside unit.
> 
> Now if you can travel last minute and/or don't care when or what size unit, you can do well with off brand ownership, but it is important to be realistic in one's expectations; I think that's why there are so many disgruntled timeshare owners, because they're not getting the trades they expected. I think the purpose of Tug is to educate people as to what is realistic.



This hits the nail on the head as to why I continue to state my case, not to bragg or justify what I own but to educate those with similar wants to my family on how do it.  

I can't tell you how happy we are with our ownership that it will enable us to go on a 5th Pres week Maui trip in 17 days since we've owned in 2002, all with 1st class FF seats received largely from my ownership.

If you want similiar you need to own Marriott or another high-end TS to enjoy such.

Its funny because I've been making this argument since day one and its always a cast of characters that say "you can do the same for pennies" and when it came done to a good fair "argument" to state both sides I'd quote examples and the opposition would just give vague references and offer examples that weren't truly apples to apples. So now it just new guys with the same argument.

*Bottom line: You can most certainly enjoy wonderful shoulder season Marriott exchanges wiith some low cost traders but to get a prime week Marriott 2BDRM in a prime location you need to own equal value or you ain't getting in unless you get lucky in flex.  *


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## timeos2 (Jan 28, 2012)

josh1231 said:


> I am always on the lookout for a new TS strategy, however adopting your strategy would concern me.
> 
> One of my primary concerns in the current timeshare market is resale. I never want to be locked into a timeshare that nobody wants. With a few exceptions, Marriott's are rather easy to sell without paying anything out of pocked to do so. The resorts you listed do not seem to be this way. Looking at current and past ebay sales, it does not seem as if either has had any sales in spite of free closings and maintenance fee's for 2012 being offered.
> 
> ...



It is a mixture of careful selection & more than a bit of luck. Our criteria has been if we LOVE it then chances are others will want it too. That can be a location or system. Add in owner control (I've always believed in that but now it is apparent it is more important & growing more unique all the time) and buying as low as possible so your only costs are the annual fees (which translate directly to use value) and your exposure is minimal.  

The risk is actually far greater with names as you tend to pay far more upfront - which only goes down over time so it's unlikely to be recouped - and the real cost, the ongoing fees, tend to be 30-50% higher. Both have a chance of special assessments but those for names tend to be higher than non-branded as, like every other fee, overhead for the name is tacked on.  

No timeshare guarantees low risk but with care you can pay very little for quality & location and have reasonable fees as you enjoy whatever you buy in the non-branded world.  Paying big money for purchase of a name also guarantees you nothing but more fees and the need to try to recover that initial purchase price someday.  It is easier to find a taker for a low cost/free week you enjoy & has reasonable fees vs trying to get thousands for a week with far higher fees.  And you worry about it less too.  You don't have to justify the purchase to yourself as the fees are low, the use value great and you have no big upfront money in it to have to try to recover.  Feels great.


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## thinze3 (Jan 28, 2012)

I traded a 3BR week 9 ski unit (no name silver crown) into Marriott's Legends Edge in late June years ago.  The trade took about 3-4 months to come through with about 4-6 months to spare.

I later learned that Marriott bulk deposited a ton of summer weeks into the system each year and that it is one of the easier resorts to trade into.  MLE is just like Manor Club, Orlando or Branson in that sense. There are tons of good summer weeks available to trade into until the early spring.  After that most premium weeks are snapped up. Any no name resort can get in with an ongoing search.

Outsiders trying to trade into a prime Marriott during prime season is no different than one of us Marriott owners trying to trade into a Westin Ka'anapali 2BR mid summer unit. It's just not going to happen.  The unit will not make it through the preference period.


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## dioxide45 (Jan 28, 2012)

thinze3 said:


> I traded a 3BR week 9 ski unit (no name silver crown) into Marriott's Legends Edge in late June years ago.  The trade took about 3-4 months to come through with about 4-6 months to spare.
> 
> I later learned that Marriott bulk deposited a ton of summer weeks into the system each year and that it is one of the easier resorts to trade into.  MLE is just like Manor Club, Orlando or Branson in that sense. There are tons of good summer weeks available to trade into until the early spring.  After that most premium weeks are snapped up. Any no name resort can get in with an ongoing search.
> 
> Outsiders trying to trade into a prime Marriott during prime season is no different than one of us Marriott owners trying to trade into a Westin Ka'anapali 2BR mid summer unit. It's just not going to happen.  The unit will not make it through the preference period.



I would agree, while they are all great resorts, I wouldn't consider Branson, Orlando or Manor club to be prime resort locations. Curious about John's Hilton Head Island trade, was it in to a beach resort or one of the resorts not on the beach? I would group Harbour Club, Harbour Pointe and Sunset Pointe in to a similar category. While they are in HHI, the demand for these resorts is far less than those resorts located directly on the beach.

I would never say that any specific trade is impossible; however, the chances for specific trades are very close to 0%. That doesn't mean that someone won't get lucky and score a great trade though as the chance is always there. It should also be said that it is prettr rare that Marriott bulk banks super prime weeks and they get through the II preference.


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## heathpack (Jan 28, 2012)

m61376 said:


> Now if you can travel last minute and/or don't care when or what size unit, you can do well with off brand ownership, but it is important to be realistic in one's expectations; I think that's why there are so many disgruntled timeshare owners, because they're not getting the trades they expected. I think the purpose of Tug is to educate people as to what is realistic.



I think this really hits the nail on the head.  Around the same time a few years ago, we bought our Hyatt resale & one of my work colleagues brought a summer Marriott Palm Springs week direct from developer.

We have no kids, WANT to travel shoulder season (better FF availability, less crowds, more discounts), and prefer 1BR units but are fine with studios.  We could not be happier.

Work colleague has 2 kids, needs 2BR unit during summer or school holidays.  He could not get anything he wanted in the old weeks system, finally went to Orlando.  Then he paid up for DC and now does not have enough points for where he really wants to go, he just had to "settle" for a partial week in Park City (that was a decent compromise, I think).  He feels like the TS was a big mistake and that he's been scammed.

I think it is completely true that the cheapest solution is not always the best.  We own DVC because that is the most practical way for us to book long weekends at Disneyland, which is what we want 80% of the time.  It is not the cheapest solution but it is the most efficient.  Others always want full weeks in Orlando DVCs in 2BR units, an RCI trader might be a better solution for them.

The over-riding concept is that there is no one-size-fits-all solution to timeshare ownership.  There are vast differences in taste, travel constraints (if I limited myself to drive-to destinations I would be very sad), the meaning/value of vacation, etc.  ANYBODY on TUG that suggests there is one best answer is doing the newbies a disservice.

This is a great, thought provoking thread.  I love Gregs initial post & concept.  There are times when we are on a TS stay that we just look around & marvel at the amazing quality of our stay relative to cost- tremendous value for us in owning branded TS.

H


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## Twinkstarr (Jan 28, 2012)

You really need patience to trade for summer and if you need the 2br you need to put the full 2br up for exchange. And put that request in early!

I have been pretty successful with my *wood 2br ski week in getting what I want and 2br units to boot. My ongoing for summer 2012 was just filled last week and it was one of the areas I only had 2 weeks requested. 

Glad I didn't bail, as the week before I seriously looked at a few Hyatt 2brs that popped up. DH was starting to panic, since we've usually gotten the trades 12-8 months out.


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## SueDonJ (Jan 28, 2012)

heathpack said:


> ... The over-riding concept is that there is no one-size-fits-all solution to timeshare ownership.  There are vast differences in taste, travel constraints (if I limited myself to drive-to destinations I would be very sad), the meaning/value of vacation, etc.  ANYBODY on TUG that suggests there is one best answer is doing the newbies a disservice. ...



Bingo!     "There is no one-size-fits-all!"  The name-brands offer related travel benefits in addition to whatever usage you can get from your particular ownership; the stand-alones don't.  Exchanging is always a crap shoot - sometimes you get lucky, sometimes you don't.  We're doing a disservice to newbies if we're so blinded by our loyalties that we don't at least acknowledge anyone else's ownership experience.



timeos2 said:


> ...  Some will eventually figure it out & convert but the vast majority want to believe and, as long as newbies don't get sold that line & actually believe it thus overpaying, we can't save them from themselves - so let it go. They are only costing themselves and those that mistakenly pay too much based on this type of thread. Hopefully we manage to educate most as to how to get far better value (as well as the top resorts if that's what they want).
> 
> Now watch out for more flying bricks!



John, when you say things like this you deserve the flying bricks!  What you wrote here is insulting, IMO, full of insinuations that only uneducated and ignorant Marriott owners can be happy owners.  And it's a theory that you expound every chance you get.  The Marriott owners in this thread who are happy with their ownerships don't need to be "saved from themselves."  Read what they're writing - they have a complete understanding of what they've purchased.  This is the type of thing that kills your argument dead every time - if you have to misrepresent the other guy in order to bolster your argument, then your entire argument fails.  Knock it off.  Stop insulting us.  We don't insult you over your preferred choice of timeshare ownership.

(Geeeze, I know that every post made by a TUG moderator is not made in that capacity, but when the same criticism is made over and over, at what point does a TUG moderator realize that it's time to self-moderate himself?  This shtick is getting very old.)


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## Beefnot (Jan 28, 2012)

Let us acknowledge that SueDonJ is a Marriott apologist who will never let herself be confused with facts, and Timeos2 is a stubborn buzz kill who refuses to let others enjoy their purchases.  Auhentic perspective can be gleaned from others who have posted here, and is somewhere in between the two diehards.  Eiher way, let the Marriott owners enjoy their Marriotts!


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## MOXJO7282 (Jan 28, 2012)

timeos2 said:


> *We have stayed at Manor House in July, Grand Chateau for Easter, Custom House in early August and Hilton Head also early August.* While there are other locations we didn't want them for various reasons (but we could have had them). We had no desire to pay for the long trip to *Hawaii* (much as we loved our trip there years ago - too expensive and WAY too much air time to be appealing today - a growing issue with all non-drivable locations) although I saw weeks available there when searching.
> 
> The simple fact is that once time goes into the trade system it can be reserved by anyone - not just Marriott owners.  As others noted what you see as a Marriott owner is different and may give you a false sense of what a non-owner is able to get - quite easily. The other fact is that Marriott's - as beautiful as they are - aren't everywhere people want to go. While they do have two or three relatively unique locations overall they are concentrated in the same old spots that also feature other brand names as well as non-branded ones. So if you want to visit Washington, DC you can't stay in a Marriott - the beautiful Wyndham Alexandria is the best choice & equal to most Marriott's. Coast in CA? Better have a Worldmark or independent as there aren't Marriott's.  *In Orlando there are a couple Marriott's but they don't have the excellent location that some non-branded resorts offer while the Marriott fees are a full 1/3 higher.*
> 
> ...



Where to start? This is a perfect example of what I mean, comparing apples and oranges. The demand for a  Manor House in July, Vegas Grand Chateau for Easter, Custom House in early August and  non-specific Hilton Head also early August isn't in the same universe as the demand there is for a Maui Marriott or Aruba in the winter, so your argument is without merit from the start.  

As for the renting of prime weeks your position on that is also way off base. I know because I follow those markets extreme close so if any one would be considered knowledgeable on the subject it would be me for high end Marriott rentals.  Can a blind squirrel find a nut? Sure but usually they die because they only find one every few years.

Finally Orlando Marriotts are part of my position because those are in an overdevelop area and even so most would say Marriotts in Orlando or as good or better than everything else there so I think most would disagree with you there as well.


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## SueDonJ (Jan 28, 2012)

Beefnot said:


> Let us acknowledge that *SueDonJ is a Marriott apologist who will never let herself be confused with facts*, and Timeos2 is a stubborn buzz kill who refuses to let others enjoy their purchases.  Auhentic perspective can be gleaned from others who have posted here, and is somewhere in between the two diehards.  Eiher way, let the Marriott owners enjoy their Marriotts!



Wow.  I think for the first time ever on TUG, I'm shocked speechless.


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## GregT (Jan 28, 2012)

Beefnot said:


> Let us acknowledge that SueDonJ is a Marriott apologist who will never let herself be confused with facts



Beefnot, seriously?  167 Posts is a bit early to roll with this --- and I don't agree at all.

You have to love the internet.  I think love is the word.

Where'd the positive Karma go?  Did we really let Timeos highjack a well-intended thread?  

Let's contact a moderator!!

Let's talk politics or religion!!  Maybe we can get a consensus there.

Today I am still loving my Marriott timeshare.

Best,

Greg


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## amycurl (Jan 28, 2012)

I once got a top floor, 2BR, oceanview unit over spring break at OceanWatch in Myrtle. I think we got it at about 9 months out. I thought that was a pretty good trade.  That was about three or four years ago, before the DC. 

I think the Marriott game is changing for everyone in ways that aren't yet entirely clear. What will happen if Spinco can't sell enough points and fails? If Spinco decides that the license fee is too high? If Legacy owners can't get what they want and start to dump weeks? From reading the threads over the past few months, I think we're all trying to figure out what is happening, why, and how it will affect different ownership groups going forward.

I used to say that if we ever purchased a second timeshare, it would be Marriott, but after the introduction of the DC, that's definitely changed. GregT has sold me on WorldMark (esp. as a way of getting into DVC.) 

Interesting thread. I think we all have good points to make, and we certainly don't need to insult each other (Marriott and non-Marriott owners alike.)


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## ilene13 (Jan 28, 2012)

We bought our first timeshare in 1980- before Marriott was in the TS business.  At one point we were at a high of 10 weeks, we now only own 7 weeks.  We own where we want to go.  Many on this site think Marriott TS are the end all be all.  They are wonderful.  I love my 4 platinum weeks--bought from Marriott.  I get to go to Aruba Christmas and New Years annually and HH every July 4th.  But they are not perfect.  When we bought our first Marriott TS in 1989 at the Grande Ocean ( we were founding owners), there was daily maid service--but alas it was taken away.  Most Marriott TS, unless attached to a Marriott Hotel, do not have restaurants on the premises.  I do not cook on vacation!  
  When DC came into play we did not join.  It does not work for us.  Many people who rave about the wonderful reservations they are getting are traveling off season.  We happen to travel to our TS high season.

    Now my other 3 weeks of TS would be considered by some of you as off brand--- they are at the Royal Sands and the Royal Haciendas in Mexico.  At these off brand TS I have full maid service, a grocery store and restaurants on property.  The spa/ fitness facilities are far nicer than at any of my Marriott TS and of those I have visited-- I work out on a daily basis.  The properties are maintained as well as or better than my Marriott properties.  I have also gotten some fantastic exchanges using my lockoffs.

   So as we all respond this thread we need to put everything into perspective.  Yes the Marriott properties are fantastic but they are not the only ones.


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## GregT (Jan 28, 2012)

You are both correct -- I love my Marriott, but I also love my Hilton, my Starwood and my WM.  I love them for different reasons.

Marriott is the core of my family vacations and will be for years and years to come.

Hilton has great spots in Hawaii for my sweetie and me to go away for a week just the two of us.

Starwood has great spots in the Caribbean when I am lucky enough to get a week there with Staroptions.   Someday I may use those StarOptions for a week in Hawaii -- TBD

Worldmark rocks as a trader and for getting blocks of rooms for family reunions (and weekends in Big Bear).

Each plays a role -- but the core remains my 3BR unit at Maui -- when I think about my timeshares I always come back to that property.

I also am confident that in 15-20+ years the property will still be there and will still be maintained very very well as a property to be proud of.  Frankly, it is sad when I read about a property that is closing or pushing through enormous SA's because I'm sure there are people that loved those properties too and are saddened by a bitter ending.   I hope there's no bitter ending coming for Maui Ocean Club....

Today I love all of my timeshares -- and love MOC the most.   

Best,

Greg


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## ondeadlin (Jan 28, 2012)

Worldmark trades:

Marriott Ocean Club, Maui, 2BR, last week of July
Marriott Summit Watch, last week of March/first week of April
Marriott Mountainside, last week of March/first week of April

In my experience a Worldmark week will get you any Marriott you want except a week 51/52.  This is mostly a product of Marriott's size - there are just so many units that if you put your request in early enough and if you have a strong enough week, there's a very good chance you'll be matched. 

But it's not a guarantee.  I think a lot of this debate is about the guarantee - people who pay the premium want a guarantee of access (the irony, of course, is that they don't usually get one, they just improve their chances).

People who pay a premium also almost religiously cling to the idea that you can't trade in, but my experiences is that most folks don't want to do the work it requires to trade in, i.e. place their request a year or more in advance and be patient.


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## timeos2 (Jan 28, 2012)

Too much focus on trade as the only way to get in. If you assume that then the picture for non-owners is all wrong. Trading into those high demand locations can be tough to impossible - for owners too.  Instead look at the cost of the fees PLUS the exchange fee (nearly $200 more) then see what can be rented, more easily then ever before, at those locations. Bingo! You can virtually name your view, location & date - and the owners do the tough job of getting it! Then, with some serious or even casual bickering, usually obtain what you want for about the fees plus trade fees or less.  Some will ask outrageous prices and a few actually get them but most will cave to covering fees as the date draws closer & they have no renter.  

So while exchanging in can be tough to near impossible renting is a virtual guarantee you'll get what you want.  And your choices aren't limited to just Marriott but to all resorts. That's value.  And you too can enjoy Marriott (or Hilton or DVC or Starwood ...) 

Just know your options rather than assuming you "have to buy" or "must be an owner".  And be thankful there are those willing to be owners as that's how we non-owners get easy access to some great resorts. That goes for branded or not.  That's not meant as a buzz kill but simply placing good options up to and including ownership as viable ways to get the places you want to visit.


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## heathpack (Jan 28, 2012)

Beefnot said:


> Let us acknowledge that SueDonJ is a Marriott apologist who will never let herself be confused with facts, and Timeos2 is a stubborn buzz kill who refuses to let others enjoy their purchases.  Auhentic perspective can be gleaned from others who have posted here, and is somewhere in between the two diehards.  Eiher way, let the Marriott owners enjoy their Marriotts!



Appalling.  

H


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## SueDonJ (Jan 28, 2012)

timeos2 said:


> Too much focus on trade as the only way to get in. If you assume that then the picture for non-owners is all wrong. Trading into those high demand locations can be tough to impossible - for owners too.  Instead look at the cost of the fees PLUS the exchange fee (nearly $200 more) then see what can be rented, more easily then ever before, at those locations. Bingo! You can virtually name your view, location & date - and the owners do the tough job of getting it! Then, with some serious or even casual bickering, usually obtain what you want for about the fees plus trade fees or less.  Some will ask outrageous prices and a few actually get them but most will cave to covering fees as the date draws closer & they have no renter.
> 
> So while exchanging in can be tough to near impossible renting is a virtual guarantee you'll get what you want.  And your choices aren't limited to just Marriott but to all resorts. That's value.  And you too can enjoy Marriott (or Hilton or DVC or Starwood ...)
> 
> Just know your options rather than assuming you "have to buy" or "must be an owner".  And be thankful there are those willing to be owners as that's how we non-owners get easy access to some great resorts. That goes for branded or not.  That's not meant as a buzz kill but simply placing good options up to and including ownership as viable ways to get the places you want to visit.



All true, John, but being able to easily rent the brand-names isn't the only contention that you made earlier in this thread, when you compared the brand-name and stand-alone timeshare values.  Now you're saying that the comparison is unnecessary because anyone who wants to simply rent doesn't have to buy anything!

You've said that a person can use a stand-alone unit as easily as a brand-name unit to get an exchange into one of the brand-names.  That's not completely true - the Marriott or Starwood or any other brand-name preference in II increases the odds of the high-demand intervals in a certain name-brand system being matched to owners in those systems.  Does it mean every Marriott deposit to II goes to only other Marriott owners?  Or Starwood deposits only go to Starwood owners?  No, of course not, because of all the variables involved in playing the exchange game.  But the preference definitely affects the odds.  Are you now acknowledging that, "... exchanging in can be tough to near impossible ..." depending upon what you own and what you want?


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## Beefnot (Jan 28, 2012)

GregT said:


> Beefnot, seriously?  167 Posts is a bit early to roll with this --- and I don't agree at all.



Make it 168.  You dont have to agree, but my number of posts has nothing to do with my ability to read and weed through the voluminous history of postings and opinions memorialized in these forums.  I have pored through tons of threads over the last few months and have arrived at conclusions that you do not share.  We can agree that you should be free to love your brand.  It's all good.


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## SueDonJ (Jan 28, 2012)

Beefnot said:


> Make it 168.  You dont have to agree, but my number of posts has nothing to do with my ability to read and weed through the voluminous history of postings and opinions memorialized in these forums.  I have pored through tons of threads over the last few months and have arrived at conclusions that you do not share.  We can agree that you should be free to love your brand.  It's all good.



No it's not.

It's no secret that I love my Marriott timeshares and all the related Marriott travel options that the timeshares opened up to us.  If that's what being a Marriott apologist is, then I am one.  Want me to scream it from a rooftop?  Sure, no problem.  (But, I think you misunderstand the definition of an apologist.)

The other thing, though?  You're way off.  I really would like for you to back up what you say with some direct quotes.  I have strong opinions just like anyone else, but I don't make up or distort facts to support them.  So, put up or shut up.


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## Beefnot (Jan 28, 2012)

I'll have to shut up then, because I'm not going back through all your pro-DC and pro-developer koolaid posts to prove my point.  Enjoy your Marriott though


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## jimf41 (Jan 28, 2012)

I agree with Sue the term apologist doesn't quite fit. Like Sue and others I really like the Marriott TS system. I like the fact that Greg T started this post and several times I've been ready to chime in with great stories and pictures.

Then the Klingon's roll in shooting up the place with random gunfire going all over the place. I used to return fire occasionally but not so much anymore. Sue shoots straighter than I do anyway so there's no need. 

I'll be leaving for Frenchman's Cove  and St Croix for about a month in a few days. If I see any non-Marriott folks at the pool on Presidents week I'll be sure to post.


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## SueDonJ (Jan 28, 2012)

Beefnot said:


> I'll have to shut up then, because I'm not going back through all your pro-DC and pro-developer koolaid posts to prove my point.  Enjoy your Marriott though



Uh huh.  Just as I thought.

You know what I really don't understand?  Why you chose this thread to drop that bomb.  I haven't once said here that my particular Weeks would be impossible trades in II for anyone who doesn't own a Marriott.  I haven't once agreed with any Marriott owner who has said that his/her particular Week is an example of an impossible trade in II for anyone who doesn't own a Marriott.  I haven't ever said anything about people who prefer owning something other than a Marriott Week, being wrong or deluded by their preference for that something.  I have said here that exchanging in II can be a crap shoot where sometimes you win and sometimes you lose.

So, why this thread?  Or is it just that you have a basic and unexplainable aversion to seeing my name in any thread?  Because if that's the case, you should do the decent thing and tell me so that I can block you.  Thanks.


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## Beefnot (Jan 28, 2012)

SueDonJ said:


> Uh huh.  Just as I thought.
> 
> You know what I really don't understand?  Why you chose this thread to drop that bomb.  I haven't once said here that my particular Weeks would be impossible trades in II for anyone who doesn't own a Marriott.  I haven't once agreed with any Marriott owner who has said that his/her particular Week is an example of an impossible trade in II for anyone who doesn't own a Marriott.  I haven't ever said anything about people who prefer owning something other than a Marriott Week, being wrong or deluded by their preference for that something.  I have said here that exchanging in II can be a crap shoot where sometimes you win and sometimes you lose.
> 
> So, why this thread?  Or is it just that you have a basic and unexplainable aversion to seeing my name in any thread?  Because if that's the case, you should do the decent thing and tell me so that I can block you.  Thanks.



I have also not denigrated Marriott owners for owning Marriott, so we are in agreement there.  If you recall, i owned a Marriott for all of a couple months, and i do believe in the quality of the brand. Based on personal experience thus far in II and experiences from others, i find that maybe as much as 90% of what Marriottians can pull, others can also pull with non-Marriott.  It is that other 10% as well as the psychological satisfaction of ownership vs. hoping & renting vs. hoping & exchanging, that appeals to the Marriotians, and I have no beef with that.

SueDonJ, I will apologize for calling you out in this thread, because reading back through this thread I realize that you did not make the hyperbolic assertions about the impenetrable power of Marriott for Marriott trades as others, but perhaps i was subconsciously attributing these to you based on prior koolaid posts from you in other threads.  So my bad on that.  I dont have an aversion to you at all; actually i find you quite amusing.  But block me as you see fit.  Respectfully.


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## brucecz (Jan 28, 2012)

Joe, is the Marriott Newport Coast really considered a top Marriot or hard to trade into  Marriott as you seem to say in your post below?  If I tied to exchange into there in this May with a non Gold  Crown rated Resort  with a white week through II what would you say the chances  would be percentage wise getting a like for like two bedroom with a el-cheapo white week?
Is it also true that your NewPort only has a ocean view over 1/2 mile away from the ocean.

Bruce  



MOXJO7282 said:


> We're any of these prime season weeks? 2BDRM units that you received?
> 
> I'm not trying to be a snob but I'm going to Maui on Presidents week in a 2BDRM OF Maui Marriott(although I did rent the studio I did have a 2BDRM), flying 1st class on AA miles because I could book at the earliest opportunity.
> 
> You can't compare Oahu or the Big Island with the Marriott Maui Ocean Club or anything in Vegas or Orlando with any of the top Marriott locations like Aruba or Hilton Head Island or Newport Coast because they don't compare in demand or in quality for that matter.


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## dioxide45 (Jan 28, 2012)

brucecz said:


> Joe, is the Marriott Newport Coast really considered a top Marriot or hard to trade into  Marriott as you seem to say in your post below?  If I tied to exchange into there in this May with a non Gold  Crown rated Resort  with a white week through II what would you say the chances  would be percentage wise getting a like for like two bedroom with a el-cheapo white week?
> Is it also true that your NewPort only has a ocean view over 1/2 mile away from the ocean.
> 
> Bruce



I would say that getting in to Newport Coast is fairly easy in II, except for those peak June, July, and August weeks, and perhaps also 51 and 52. The rest of the year is probably pretty easy. It is a huge resort.

We used a Grande Vista 1BR gold week to get in to February. Of course February is pretty off season and May might be a little harder. But I think one would be successful with a white week. Of course a lot of the better shoulder season weeks will get snapped up by Marriott owners during the preference period.

Newport Coast may be about a half mile from the ocean but it is on a hilltop, so it has some spectacular views. There are no view categories and owners tend to be given the units with great ocean views.


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## dioxide45 (Jan 28, 2012)

SueDonJ said:


> Wow.  I think for the first time ever on TUG, I'm shocked speechless.



Not sure why you are shocked speechless Sue, it isn't like this is the first 
time you have been called a Marriott apologist


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## klpca (Jan 28, 2012)

brucecz said:


> Joe, is the Marriott Newport Coast really considered a top Marriot or hard to trade into  Marriott as you seem to say in your post below?  If I tied to exchange into there in this May with a non Gold  Crown rated Resort  with a white week through II what would you say the chances  would be percentage wise getting a like for like two bedroom with a el-cheapo white week?
> Is it also true that your NewPort only has a ocean view over 1/2 mile away from the ocean.
> 
> Bruce



Not Joe (of course  ) but if you check the sightings board there are lots of sightings of off-season Newport Coast. I see more - and better - weeks with my Marriott, no question. Right now there aren't any May weeks, but I think I have seen them in the past. Personally, I wouldn't go there in May, but you never know, you may get lucky with the weather. The fall is much nicer along the coast in southern Ca, in my opinion. The summer months are beautiful there, but I have never seen any of them with any of my weeks.


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## MOXJO7282 (Jan 28, 2012)

dioxide45 said:


> I would say that getting in to Newport Coast is fairly easy in II, except for those peak June, July, and August weeks, and perhaps also 51 and 52. The rest of the year is probably pretty easy. It is a huge resort.



I'm someone who wants the "except for" weeks and those are the weeks I'm referring to that you really need to own to get.

You also have to offer fair value to trade for the "except for" weeks and that is the whole disagreement in this thread.

What I find amusing is those that try to refute have no experience obtaining these weeks but yet they speak as an authority.  And no a May week at Newport Coast is not a prime week.


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## ilene13 (Jan 28, 2012)

Touché, that's why we own platinum weeks.


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## brucecz (Jan 28, 2012)

MOXJO7282 said:


> I'm someone who wants the "except for" weeks and those are the weeks I'm referring to that you really need to own to get.
> 
> You also have to offer fair value to trade for the "except for" weeks and that is the whole disagreement in this thread.
> 
> What I find amusing is those that try to refute have no experience obtaining these weeks but yet they speak as an authority.  And no a May week at Newport Coast is not a prime week.



Quoting Joe "You can't compare Oahu or the Big Island with the Marriott Maui Ocean Club or anything in Vegas or Orlando with any of the top Marriott locations like Aruba or Hilton Head Island or 
Newport Coast      because they don't compare in demand or in quality for that matter. "Unquote

Joe, just to make sure are your referring to me as you did NOT use the Marriott NewPort as a Prime Marriott resort in your post I first quoted as a example and I questioned it as it relates to value? Now are you saying the Newport is not a prime resort and so easy to exchange into with a elcheapo white week even if the total cost including all II exchange  costs is far less than 1/2 the about $995  Newport yearly maintenace fees? 

So Joe are you saying a Marriott Owner using a May weeh at Newport is getting a bad value for their $20,000 "investment" and  about $995 yearly MF's? while other can exchange in with 5% of the buyin investment of a Marriott and far less MF's are in the same boat?

It appears that II who knows far more about the value a resort offers sets the trade power because II is like for like on demand is not blinded like some Marriott owners about trade power and value.

In regards to it not being directly on the Ocean you at time in a post degraded a Keys timeshare because it was on directly on the Gulf and not on the cold ocean side?  Do you remember?  So the excuse is that you can see the water 1/2 mile away is interesting I find :rofl: that amusing.

We will again be at the Newport with a ownership reservation that when prorated but not including rental income is about :hysterical: $165 per reservation and then ad the II fees or well over $600 less than a Newport owner pays.


After we use the Newport with its 1/2 mile distant ocean View we will move to a true ocean front resort.

Joe, keep signing to the same Marriot Choir but II, and those of us who have owned at and sold  maybe 10, 20 or 50 or more timeshares and not get talked into developer prices are  :rofl: at some of the justafications buying from Marriott at developer prices is a great financial investment. 


Enjoy but do not say buying from Marriott at developer prices is a great financial investment. 

PS

 IMHO  Boca,  Times2 , and other are correct and saying 1,000 times or 2,000 times or more  that  buying from Marriott at developer prices is a great investment will not make it so.

Bruce


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## MOXJO7282 (Jan 28, 2012)

brucecz said:


> Quoting Joe "You can't compare Oahu or the Big Island with the Marriott Maui Ocean Club or anything in Vegas or Orlando with any of the top Marriott locations like Aruba or Hilton Head Island or
> Newport Coast      because they don't compare in demand or in quality for that matter. "Unquote
> 
> Joe, just to make sure are your referring to me as you did NOT use the Marriott NewPort as a Prime Marriott resort in your post I first quoted as a example and I questioned it as it relates to value? Now are you saying the Newport is not a prime resort and so easy to exchange into with a elcheapo white week even if the total cost including all II exchange  costs is far less than 1/2 the about $995  Newport yearly maintenace fees?
> ...



I stand by my quote 100%. With all due respect Bruce if you don't know the difference between a May Newport and a Summer Newport you should stay on the sidelines of the discussion.

Also this argument is not about buying direct, the last direct I bought was in 2004 so not sure why you mention that.  

What this is about is non-Marrriott owners talking about something they know very little about and your point validates that.

You and John trying to argue about Marriott would be like me arguing about the merits of your Christmas Mountain or Westgate or whatever the heck you guys own. 

I wouldn't do it because I know very little about it, only what I read here on TUG, so IMHO you shouldn't really comment too much on Marriott because you don't have first hand experience.


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## SueDonJ (Jan 28, 2012)

Beefnot said:


> I have also not denigrated Marriott owners for owning Marriott, so we are in agreement there.  If you recall, i owned a Marriott for all of a couple months, and i do believe in the quality of the brand. Based on personal experience thus far in II and experiences from others, i find that maybe as much as 90% of what Marriottians can pull, others can also pull with non-Marriott.  It is that other 10% as well as the psychological satisfaction of ownership vs. hoping & renting vs. hoping & exchanging, that appeals to the Marriotians, and I have no beef with that.
> 
> SueDonJ, I will apologize for calling you out in this thread, because reading back through this thread I realize that you did not make the hyperbolic assertions about the impenetrable power of Marriott for Marriott trades as others, but perhaps i was subconsciously attributing these to you based on prior koolaid posts from you in other threads.  So my bad on that.  I dont have an aversion to you at all; actually i find you quite amusing.  But block me as you see fit.  Respectfully.



Now this is very decent, Beef.  Thank you.  I like reading everyone on TUG, even when I don't agree with what they write, and I'd hate to have start an ignore list with your name.

And now that I know that you sometimes respond to the voices in your head instead of the words on the screen in front of you, I think I'm better prepared to dodge your random Klingon gunfire.  It's all good.


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## brucecz (Jan 28, 2012)

MOXJO7282 said:


> I stand by my quote 100%. With all due respect Bruce if you don't know the difference between a May Newport and a Summer Newport you should stay on the sidelines of the discussion.
> 
> Also this argument is not about buying direct, the last direct I bought was in 2004 so not sure why you mention that.
> 
> ...



Joe, your problem is Quote" or whatever the heck you guys own" Unquote. Your " or whatever the heck you guys own"  shows do turely do not understand the many other systems out there and want to keep your Marriott ststem Blinders on. So you are trapped by your lack of over  all timeshare knownlegde of other systems.  

Joe Thank you  and the others who bought direct thanks for paying the huge upfront cost so peons like can exchange into your Marriotts with our cheap resales.  Thank nyou again.

Joe, I know enough about Marriott that I would not waste money buying from a deleveloper like you did.  I would not buy at a overbuilt Marriott off water location that has just under 1,000 units and sell at a lost on ebay like the Newports do at 65% to 75% off of developer costs. That is a poor "investment" Those types of losses could be  IMHO better used to fund a Collage education.

For 1/20 or less the money we picked up a ocean front resort with ocean front one bedroom unit at the Laguna` Surf about 5 to 7 miles south of the Marriott and only has 25 units and is a far more difficult exchange  than a prime time New Port.Marriot had to build at a left over off ocean location. They are only a 1 bed sleep 4 but I spent about 5% of the money for a Ocean Front unit that even has a fireplace.  The view is so much nicer from those units that the NewPort has of the Ocean.

I am now in a Gold Crown Puerto Vallarta Ocean Front resort that we own 4 of and rent out 2 to cover our MF exspences. All units are Ocean Front within 100 feet of the water and there is only 46 units. Same latitude as Hawaii and the basically the same weather but so much more cost effective with on the average better service people at 1/10 the buy-in and far lesser MF's.  

Newport as I will not call it tne Marriott Newport Beach as it is not on the beach:rofl:  when we were out their last year.

FYI that knownlegde you lacking  about ownerships like our Rushes  fixed week 26 for prime weeks has a higher resale than your Newport even though it is a lot older.  Ask your Marriott Friends who own at a RCI resort if they Have exchanged into the Rushes from week 26 through the second week of August. I doubt they have as only 2 or 3 of those type of weeks are banked each year. 

You take in less in rental income than I do  and get less exchanges than I do IMHO not have more all around  timeshare experiance having bough 50 timeshares and sold 25. I can exchange through far more exchange companies than you at a lesser ongoing cost.


We have one ownership that allowed us to exchange into Disney when it was II several times. But we can use that same ownership to exchange into Disney through RCI. Can your Marriott do that for you now? Flexibilty is important.

Joe, is their a program to help  people  who got sucked in by Marriott Developer sales who think Marriott is the only thing in timesharing and really do not get the full picture? Then they choose to become a one trick pony with very limited moptic vison.

They IMHO should enjoy their nice resorts and some are very nice resorts but does Marriotts make up 5% or  even 1% of the world wide inventory and to limit IMHO knowlegde only to the Marriotts is so sad.

PS
 This fall instead of exchaning into the Marriott we up graded through II and exchanged inti the Planet Hollywood. in Las Vegas.

Bruce


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## dioxide45 (Jan 28, 2012)

brucecz said:


> Newport as I will not call it tne Marriott Newport Beach as it is not on the beach:rofl:  when we were out their last year.



You probably shouldn't call it Newport Beach anyway. The name of the resort is Marriott's Newport© *Coast* Villas. Marriott actually uses the name with permission from The Irvine Company.


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## bdh (Jan 28, 2012)

> this argument is not about buying direct ....



Unfortunately what this thread started out as has little to do with what it's become as it was highjacked days ago.  

Time and time again, it's the same highjacker declaring his view as the only possible scenario.  So "pay no attention to the man behind the curtain" as the Great Oz was blowing smoke.  

Hopefully, Team Marriott can return this thread to the original topic.


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## brucecz (Jan 28, 2012)

dioxide45 said:


> You probably shouldn't call it Newport Beach anyway. The name of the resort is Marriott's Newport© *Coast* Villas. Marriott actually uses the name with permission from The Irvine Company.



Point taken but, coast means to most people on the water, not back in the hills like that Marriott.

Bruce


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## csalter2 (Jan 28, 2012)

*You folks are just ugly*

You folks are just being ugly to one another. Let's all calm down. 

The bottom line is this. There are many of us who own Marriott that just absolutely love them regardless of what we paid for them. Marriott's timeshare system is the biggest of the nice name-brand resorts and those of us who own feel lucky to be able to work its system to our advantage. 

Those who are fortunate to get leftovers that owners put up for exchange, that's great too. You are able to get some extra value every now and again. Consider yourselves fortunate. 

When I am at Ko Olina, I am not concerned about who is at the pool or the spa. When I am not there, I don't care who is staying there that is a non Marriott owner. In fact, when I turn over my week to Diamond Resorts International for additional points, I know for a fact a non Marriott owner is going to stay there. I also know that there's a good chance I am not going to have all of the bells and whistles I get when I am at a Marriott.   For me, as long as I am taking full advantage of my memberships in timeshare it's a wash and I am happy. For me it's more about the location I am going to, and once I know that I would like the most comfortable accommodations I can find. If I can get a Marriott, that's even better. For the record Marriott has hotels worldwide, so if they don't have a timeshare, I am fine with a hotel. Those rewards points are priceless and don't cost me a dime. I just pay my bills with that credit card every month and I am being located right in the heart of Paris on Champ Elyses (sorry I know it's spelled incorrectly). Worldmark, Hilton, Starwood and DVC can't get you there and certainly not for free. You have to go through Marriott.  

It is funny. When I stayed in Maui at the Ka'anapali Beach Club in July, the salesperson tried to get me to buy more points. She said how difficult it was to get to come there in July. Heck, I was there once in July, and interestingly since then I look every year at July and there has always been units available. KBC is a very nice resort too. 

My point is we can't get too caught up in all of this. It's about vacationing and having fun. We post here to learn from one another and maximize our memberships. Let's do that and move on.


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## brucecz (Jan 28, 2012)

bdh said:


> Unfortunately what this thread started out as has little to do with what it's become as it was highjacked days ago.
> 
> Time and time again, it's the same highjacker declaring his view as the only possible scenario.  So "pay no attention to the man behind the curtain" as the Great Oz was blowing smoke.
> 
> Hopefully, Team Marriott can return this thread to the original topic.



In regards to your "to the man behind the curtain" as the Great Oz was blowing smoke." I use my real name full  on all my ads were allowed and not 3 letters like you do. Come from behind your curtian and debate the issues and facts.  

If your so called Team Marriott makes incorrect inflated claims like Joe does  but knows they can not win on financial issues raised and posts like yours duck issues. 

So you cry wolf hoping people will forget the  financial issues that were frist raised by Joe are exposed as not  being correct.  Are you like the lion in oz and afraid to stick to issues or try to use mirriors or cry Wolf. 

Joe maybe thinks his mopic views and your so calledTeam Marriotthould be the only ones heard. Get real the true Real Team Marriott were the Sales Crew that got people to buy from the developer.

Your post IMHO ducked the issuses so if you and Joe you have mostly ducked the monatary issues and the limited exchanges you get with only owning Marriott,

I see yoiu did not IMHO have the intergrty to stick and debate the issues because you cryed wolf.


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## Beefnot (Jan 29, 2012)

Let's just keep in mind that this thread is called "This is why I love my Marriot timeshare!", not "This is why owning a Marriott timeshare makes more sense than owning any other timehare system!".


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## dioxide45 (Jan 29, 2012)

Beefnot said:


> Let's just keep in mind that this thread is called "This is why I love my Marriot timeshare!", not "This is why owning a Marriott timeshare makes more sense than owning any other timehare system!".



True, but for some reason certain people have a need to hammer at their point. For some reason I think it makes them feel more important. They just have to be right.


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## brucecz (Jan 29, 2012)

csalter2 said:


> You folks are just being ugly to one another. Let's all calm down.
> 
> The bottom line is this. There are many of us who own Marriott that just absolutely love them regardless of what we paid for them. Marriott's timeshare system is the biggest of the nice name-brand resorts and those of us who own feel lucky to be able to work its system to our advantage.
> 
> ...



Point taken but Joe spouts things that are not correct when he first raises Finanacial issues and when is proven wrong and then claims condesendingly  the other person has` no knowlegde.

 Well I this other person was in timesharinfg a long btime before  was and have vastly more expeiance than he does with many more ownerships. The Point is we can get what has be called left overs that someone paid Marriott BIG Bucks.

 The controdiction is why do SOME Marriott owners act so arrogant about those so called leftovers that one of them paid  Marriott big bucks for.


It looks like a double standand if a Marriott owner uses his week it was a god investment.  But if a exchager uses it for far less money inn MF's you called it a left over as if was undesirable.

But the way I get Marriotts is a Marriott owner to go out of the Marriott system  to get other non Marriott owners left overs that most likely cost those non Marriott owners far less unfront money and far less money in on going costs.

Also note one one addressed  the issue I raised that II knows after millions of deposits what the exchange value is no matter what certain Marriott owners want to belive.

But it appears  IMHO Marriott owners like to sing to the same choir but some call it team Marriott and cry wolf if they are afraid to debate factual points and issues .

Good night and good bye to team Marriott unless they do more mud slinging.

Bruce


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## jimf41 (Jan 29, 2012)

Bye Bruce.


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## sb2313 (Jan 29, 2012)

I feel like this is totally off the subject at this point, but I love my marriott weeks as I know that I have a great 3 bedroom oceanside villa at surfwatch(recently purchased resale for a really great price before I get accused of buying from the developer!) to take my wife and 2 young kids to in May after a long Illinois winter!
Great idea for a thread Greg, really too bad some people feel the need to fill it with negativity.


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## bdh (Jan 29, 2012)

brucecz said:


> In regards to your "to the man behind the curtain" as the Great Oz was blowing smoke." I use my real name full  on all my ads were allowed and not 3 letters like you do. Come from behind your curtian and debate the issues and facts.
> 
> If your so called Team Marriott makes incorrect inflated claims like Joe does  but knows they can not win on financial issues raised and posts like yours duck issues.
> 
> ...



FWIW

1. I don't own Marriott.
2. I don't care what your real is or isn't (whatever it is, is obviously irrelevant to the thread).
3. As you've chosen to respond to the full of smoke comment, you must think my post was pointed directly at you - it wasn't, but I can certainly see you are full of something.
4. I have nothing to debate or duck as I don't have a dog in the fight - I enjoy reading a variety of topics and posts on TUG and was merely commenting that hopefully the original context of the thread could be recaptured by the Marriott owners that are content with their ownership.  


PS: correct spelling, punctuation and word spacing make posts easier to read.


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## bdh (Jan 29, 2012)

sb2313 said:


> I feel like this is totally off the subject at this point, but I love my marriott weeks .... Great idea for a thread Greg, really too bad some people feel the need to fill it with negativity.



sb2313 gets the prize for getting back to the topic!


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## GregT (Jan 29, 2012)

sb2313 said:


> I feel like this is totally off the subject at this point, but I love my marriott weeks as I know that I have a great 3 bedroom oceanside villa at surfwatch(recently purchased resale for a really great price before I get accused of buying from the developer!) to take my wife and 2 young kids to in May after a long Illinois winter!
> Great idea for a thread Greg, really too bad some people feel the need to fill it with negativity.



SB,

Congrats on your purchase and I hope it brings you and your family many happy years of memories.

Today, I was driving home with my kids (and their friends) and my kids were telling their friends all about our Hawaii adventures.  They told them about how we always play freeze tag on the lawn, and about the time that the bird got into our room and pooped on my computer screen.   It made me really happy to hear them talking about it and it really stuck with me that the Maui trips are very special to them.   They didn't mention the Tibber Tai or the cookie sheet.

Clearly, special memories could exist around any place -- and I've chosen Maui to build our memories which I believe will continue for many years to come.   

I have to admit, I'm pretty surprised with the turn that this thread took.   But TUG is notorious for thread-hijacking and the internet is the Wild West so anything goes.   

I remain really happy with my Marriott -- and with all of my timeshares.   I'm going to buy more, I'm sure of it.   I don't know what yet and vacillate between another HGVC, a Disney, or holding out for the adjacent fixed week in my beloved MOC.   But what I have now makes me very happy and builds tremendous memories with my family and with my wife.  In 2.5 weeks, I'll be at HHV and without owning HGVC, I couldn't take this trip --- a fabulous property at a modest cost.   

Interesting stuff -- and thanks to all who posted positive things and helped keep the thread in the original spirit.

Best,

Greg


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## MOXJO7282 (Jan 29, 2012)

brucecz said:


> Point taken but Joe spouts things that are not correct when he first raises Finanacial issues and *when is proven wrong and then claims condesendingly  the other person has` no knowlegde.* Well I this other person was in timesharinfg a long btime before  was and have vastly more expeiance than he does with many more ownerships. The Point is we can get what has be called left overs that someone paid Marriott BIG Bucks. The controdiction is why do SOME Marriott owners act so arrogant about those so called leftovers that one of them paid  Marriott big bucks for.
> *It looks like a double standand if a Marriott owner uses his week it was a god investment.  But if a exchager uses it for far less money inn MF's you called it a left over as if was undesirable.
> *
> Also note one one addressed  the issue I raised that II knows after millions of deposits what the exchange value is no matter what certain Marriott owners want to belive.
> ...


First off I'm never condesending, I'm just stating facts. I love to respectfully argue a point but your arguments are so non-sensical its not possible. 

The thread started as a Marriott lovefest and you and others hijacked and stated "We can get anything a Marriott owner gets for 5% of the cost."  So right away you compell Marriott owners to respond to your misinformation.

We mention Maui and Aruba in the winter, Newport and top HHI in the summer, and high-end ski weeks as the weeks that only an owner of a high value unit, including Starwood, Hyatt, could get.

You argue with lesser resorts Mexico vs Maui and Laguna Surf vs Newport Coast in lesser seasons and insist we're comparing the same thing. That is where the disconnect is, Mexico could never be like Maui, for many, many reasons.  


There are alot of great Marriott off-season week (I never said off-season is bad just not prime time when many want to travel) that are exchanged into no doubt, just don't try to proclaim these weeks to be the top prime and use them in your argue because that doesn't hold water.

You and the other Marriott (what's the opposite of apologist?) just ignore factual statements and then offer comparisons like Puerto Vallarta compared to Maui and May Newport Coast vs summer Newport Coast that don't support your argument but you stick with them.   

You mention the Laguna Surf. Its rated 88 in the TUG database. Newport Coast in 10. I'm sure its a nice little resort buy do you really think its better than the Marriott Newport Coast? 8 out fo 10 would disagree.


If you made more than me last year in rentals then good for you because that means you did really well.

I'm not sure why some want to criticize Marriott owners, the only thing I can think is envy but it could be that some just like to be argumentative. 


You state "Joe you have mostly ducked the monatary issues" and I have no idea what you mean because I love to talk about my Marriott ownership and how it all came about. I've been on TUG for a number of years now and I believe I always been respectful of everyone but some take offense of pro-Marriott comments and try to argue. 

I do enjoy a good civil argument but my opponents can't argue with specifics because of their inexpereince so it just breakdown into a mudslinging event. Remember this was a thread started by those that agreed with Greg T. and out of the woodwork comes the slings and arrow.


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## m61376 (Jan 29, 2012)

*Let's play nice *

I was going to post last night but decided not to...anyway, I think if we don't redirect this thread back to its original topic the moderators will close it down for violating Tug rules; we're really on the line here. There needn't be such negative vibes in what should be an upbeat thread.

Let's try to all agree on some basic points- 
-most of us, whether owners or exchangers, have really loved our trips to various Marriotts and have created many wonderful family memories. 
-owners can routinely book weeks during their ownership period, and hopefully get to book the week they want a year in advance without the uncertainty of exchanges. They can then plan their trips worry-free, and look for the cheapest airfare
-Marriott owners have an advantage in II for trading into other Marriotts that non-owners do not have
-non-Marriott owners have been fortunate to book Marriotts of their choice from time to time using non-Marriott weeks for exchanges. For the most part, these have been exchanges to smaller units and/or during shoulder or off season, or during Flexchange. Occasionally, a prime weeks does get nabbed by a non-Marriott, slipping through the Marriott preference, whether by mistake in II or some other factor
-there are many other high quality resorts and one can have a wonderful vacation too in resorts that have lesser amenities, so I don't think any Marriott owner here is denigrating other brands. There are Motel 6's and there are Ritz's, many located in the same vicinity, and you can see an area just as easily while sleeping in either at night. Some people would rather use the money elsewhere even if they have it and opt to stay at lesser accommodations and others prefer to spend their vacation dollars that way. I think Marriott owners, for the most part, feel that the extra amenities they get during their stay adds enough to their vacation experience to warrant the cost.
-I think everyone here agrees that Marmots aren't the end all and be all in every location, and there are many other non- branded timeshares that are very nice. But Marriott owners want a certain quality and are generally assured of having it when going to a destination they haven't been to before. For some people, that security is worth the price of admission, so to speak.
-again, no one here is saying that Marriott stays are only for owners and that no non-owners can trade in. I think what is being said is that ownership undeniably does give owners an edge- and during prime time an overwhelming edge- to book Marriott weeks, and most Marriott owners are willing to pay the added cost to have the ability to go where they want and when they want to go (in the case of resort ownership) or a much better chance of exchanging in to where they want when they want in the size unit they want.

It's not an exclusive club, but membership does have it's privileges; while that might not be worth the cost to some, to others it is, and we all need to respect each others' opinions.

Getting back to the topic- because I own a Platinum week in Aruba I can look forward to a Caribbean vacation over the winter. Because I am a Marriott owner I was able to get an additional exchange to match my week exactly about 10 months ago and can enjoy the company of friends as well as family. Oh- and because I am a member of Tug and have "met" such nice people here I was nicely offered an additional week so I was able to invite an additional couple to join us. So let's all remember why we're here- to enjoy using our ownership and help each other explore new ways to enjoy it- whether learning more about the system, learning about new destinations and how to secure trades, and lastly, for enjoying "chatting" with each other and helping each other out!


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## brucecz (Jan 29, 2012)

I see by the time of your last post you may not be getting enough sleep as you seemingly have posts and facts confused..

Again Joe, you try to pick and choose and claim not to be arrogant. "Quoting you"What I find amusing is those that try to refute have no :rofl: experience obtaining these weeks but yet they speak as an authority. And no a May week at Newport Coast is not a prime week. " Unquote

When I get home I would be happy to send you some of the Marriott and Disney exchanges from our desk top and show were we have gotten them  with some timeshares that cost us les than  $1,000.

  I see one of your cohorts points to my spelling  and tone towards some arrogant owners but does not address or try refute even one of the facts I posted. 

Did my first post mentionnof New port mention a Newport Summer week., no it did not.  For you to imply that it did does not reflect well on your creditability.  It did ask you directly about the chances getting a Newport White week in exchange for a non Newport white week.  So do not try to claim my first question to you was about a red week.?

Joe, you have posts  in other non Marriott strings onn Tug right  now bragging about your rental profits  so your claim about you not talking about financials is not correct to say the least.

I see that you did dare to respond to this fact so I will post it again.

Fact is,  It is a double standand if a Marriott owner uses his  Newport  May week it was a god investment. But if a exchager uses it for far less money inn MF's you and others called it a left over as if was undesirable.

Fact is, But the way I get Marriotts is a Marriott owner to go out of the Marriott system to get other "non Marriott owners left overs "that most likely cost those non Marriott owners far less unfront money and far less money in on going costs.

It seems some Marriott owners want to feel supperior the the weeks they use to exchange into II are leftovers. Why is that seeing those weeks have higher MF's than most over non Marriott weeks as that is not a cost efective was to vacation. Renting would offer better value and you would have a cash reserve and no high MF's. 

Fact is, Also note one one addressed the issue I raised that II knows after millions of deposits what the TRUE exchange value is no matter what certain Marriott owners want to belive.

Fact is Also note one one Marriott owner  addressed the issue I raised that II knows after millions of deposits what the exchange value is no matter what certain Marriott owners want to belive.

But it appears IMHO Marriott owners like to sing to the same choir but some call it team Marriott and cry wolf if they are afraid to debate factual points and issues  but resort to other tactics to avoid discussing both sides of the "left overs" issue that the Marriott owners bought up IMHO in a dissparing way.


In regards to the OCEAN FRONT Lauguna Surf there are only 25 units and New Port has almost 40 times more units so the Laguna Surf is a harder exchange and that is why there as most Marriotts are a easy exchange like the Newport and IMHO offered so much far better bang for the buck.


 Joe, even through you do not want to belive it and try to mock me the PROVEN FACT IS I can use a poor Midwest  exchange white week  costing 5% Newport  does to exchange in.  Oh by the way if you  were opened minded and took look at the II demand index for summer you would LEARN that a prime summer Wisconsin week hits the top of the II demand Index. II rates it higher than a week 52 in Vegas. 

But knowing yours and some of the other Marriott owners  style you wil not acknownlegde that II fact backed by millions of II deposits and exchanges.

I have rented summer Christmas Mountain  weeks to Marriott owners for 2 reasons. One is their Marriott did not have enough trading power or lack of availabilty. Second It made far more economic sense to do so when all of that Marriott owners Marriott costs were considered.

In comparison Newport compared to our Gold Crown Door County Rushes  is that the Newport is Smaller, does out have soaring ceilings its own private garage, free use of sailboats and other water craft, tennis courts and other types of courts, indoor pool, hiking trails ect.  


We unlike you are no longer tied to the school calender so we mostly avoid school holiday travel.  Seing we live on a Lake in Wisconsin  we enjoy our summers here with Bboating etc. Remember the II demand index?

WE prefer Mexico over Hawaii for various sound reasons which because of economic times Hawaii is a easy trade even nn prime times if you know how to use the systems.

Those who love Hawaii, enjoy.  Fact is the places you love may be great, but they are not the only great ownerships or exchanges as one size does not fit all.

Bruce







MOXJO7282 said:


> First off I'm never condesending, I'm just stating facts. I love to respectfully argue a point but Marriott owners
> The thread started as a Marriott lovefest and you and others hijacked and stated "We can get anything a Marriott owner gets for 5% of the cost."  So right away you compell Marriott owners to respond to your misinformation.
> 
> We mention Maui and Aruba in the winter, Newport and top HHI in the summer, and high-end ski weeks as the weeks that only an owner of a high value unit, including Starwood, Hyatt, could get.
> ...


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## brucecz (Jan 29, 2012)

A good fair common sense Marriott owner post that acknownlegdes facts that other Marriott owners are unwilling to. Thanks, Bruce 





m61376 said:


> I was going to post last night but decided not to...anyway, I think if we don't redirect this thread back to its original topic the moderators will close it down for violating Tug rules; we're really on the line here. There needn't be such negative vibes in what should be an upbeat thread.
> 
> Let's try to all agree on some basic points-
> -most of us, whether owners or exchangers, have really loved our trips to various Marriotts and have created many wonderful family memories.
> ...


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## csalter2 (Jan 29, 2012)

*I love my Marriott because...*

I love my Marriott because I know that I can get 3 weeks of vacation for it. 1 week with my studio. 1 week with my 1 bdrm and every year I get an AC. When I retire, I plan on taking full advantage of this. My time in Hawaii will really be lengthened as I will probably make it my home away from home for sure.


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## m61376 (Jan 29, 2012)

brucecz said:


> Oh by the way if you  were opened minded and took look at the II demand index for summer you would LEARN that a prime summer Wisconsin week hits the top of the II demand Index. II rates it higher than a week 52 in Vegas.
> 
> .... Remember the II demand index?
> 
> Bruce



Since you are being so factual, you should recognize that a TDI of 150 in Wisconsin does not mean that II rates the week higher than even a 100 elsewhere. TDI is ONLY pertinent for the given region, and reflects relative demand for a given area, and CANNOT be used to compare demand or trading strength between different locales.

So hopefully you now understand the real significance of II's TDI and will not mistakenly reference it as factually supporting something that it does not.

And, Bruce, thanks for the compliment. But I think you miss that many other owners are also willing to admit that these trades happen, just not as frequently as they'd personally be comfortable with, nor for the weeks/sizes they regularly want/need to travel, and therefore feel that paying a premium is worth the security of getting what they want. It is purely a lifestyle choice- much like buying a car. My Lexus will get me to the same place that someone else's smart car may get them to, but I can transport more people, feel more comfortable and secure in it, and enjoy the added amenities. What's right for me may not be right for you- but it's great that we all have such choices. 

Admittedly, it is nice playing the game and when you get what you want even with a lesser trader there's definitely a bit of satisfaction in doing that. Much like bargain shopping- as my darling hubbie says "it's the thrill of the hunt." But sometimes if I really need/want something I'll pay a little more just to have it then and there. I think this entire discussion is analogous to that.


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## GregT (Jan 29, 2012)

csalter2 said:


> I love my Marriott because I know that I can get 3 weeks of vacation for it. 1 week with my studio. 1 week with my 1 bdrm and every year I get an AC. When I retire, I plan on taking full advantage of this. My time in Hawaii will really be lengthened as I will probably make it my home away from home for sure.



Carlito,

Nice work and good planning.   I also hope to make Hawaii my home away from home when I retire -- and just need to make sure we have enough space for everybody!

I often think it would be a nice routine for my wife and I to go over after Memorial Day and stay in either Ko Olina or HHV, and then move over to MOC in mid-June when kids (grandkids?) start to get out of school.  We would fly everybody out to visit us and hopefully this perpetuates the Maui tradition.   I have no idea if this will come to fruition, but I think this would be wonderful if it developed this way.

We will see!

Best,

Greg


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## brucecz (Jan 29, 2012)

QUOTE=m61376;1236245]Since you are being so factual, you should recognize that a TDI of 150 in Wisconsin does not mean that II rates the week higher than even a 100 elsewhere. TDI is ONLY pertinent for the given region, and reflects relative demand for a given area, and CANNOT be used to compare demand or trading strength between different locales.

So hopefully you now understand the real significance of II's TDI and will not mistakenly reference it as factually supporting something that it does not.

And, Bruce, thanks for the compliment. But I think you miss that many other owners are also willing to admit that these trades happen, just not as frequently as they'd personally be comfortable with, nor for the weeks/sizes they regularly want/need to travel, and therefore feel that paying a premium is worth the security of getting what they want. It is purely a lifestyle choice- much like buying a car. My Lexus will get me to the same place that someone else's smart car may get them to, but I can transport more people, feel more comfortable and secure in it, and enjoy the added amenities. What's right for me may not be right for you- but it's great that we all have such choices. 

Admittedly, it is nice playing the game and when you get what you want even with a lesser trader there's definitely a bit of satisfaction in doing that. Much like bargain shopping- as my darling hubbie says "it's the thrill of the hunt." But sometimes if I really need/want something I'll pay a little more just to have it then and there. I think this entire discussion is analogous to that.[/QUOTE]

You are welcome and I agree up to a certain Point about your Quote"

m61376;1236245]Since you are being so factual, you should recognize that a TDI of 150 in Wisconsin does not mean that II rates the week higher than even a 100 elsewhere. TDI is ONLY pertinent for the given region, and reflects relative demand for a given area, and CANNOT be used to compare demand or trading strength between different locales.

So hopefully you now understand the real significance of II's TDI and will not mistakenly reference it as factually supporting something that it does not.
" Unquote

I understood that fact over 10 years ago when I joined II and statred doing rentals.  It as factually supporting up to a point in regards to value but it is a fun question to ask those snobs that think the midwest has no demand value.  II says differant in the II demand charts no matter how others want to spin it to fit their agenda.

I also understand that some exchange comanies rate Florida as having redtime all year which is a joke.

IMHO the real Market Value Demand Exchange power imeasuring stick is  the amount  Rental income that one ownership  can  generate for  the upfront amount of buying and  the on going costs as Cash is King and the resales % returned on a Developer or resale wek being resold. It seems a lot of Marriott owners can not understand that simple baic fact.  Ebay buyer do on what they will pay for differant Marriotts.

Seeing Joe has brough up the suject many times over the years and in this string about how his Marriott has saved him on air fares we have done better using RCI Points with our Christmas Mountain UDI's were we can get 8 to 10 yearly resevations out of just one ownership.We because of these low costs looted the RCI Points airfares (at about 50% off ) and could get Disney Park tickets at about 75% off but that is no more. 



The reason is out of our Christmas Mountain Is both II and RCI and we can also put those into RCI Points and many other exchange companies.  We are cutting back on all of our ownerships as we had 32 two years ago and are down to 24.  Two years ago we had 14 CMV (Christmas MountainUDI's) and now we have 8 as listed on our Tug profile.

I have reservered in the 10 years at least over 700  reservation Christmas Mountain and Timbers at Christmas Mountain reservations.  Our Timber at Christmas Mountain UDI's MF's are $1,040. But each  reservation costs us a $55 housekeeping fees  so if we only get 10 reservations per ownership the average cost per reservation of less than $160.
By the way we get free gold and free ski lift prilivages with our Timbers at Christmas Mountain UDI's.  

Please name us one Marriott that can do the things above that our at Christmas Mountain UDI's in one years on just one ownership. To my knownlegde that some Marriott owners say is so limited compared to theirs I do not think there is a Marriott so flexable and that be as cost effective with the perks on a ongoing basis.

 In fact we are facing a special asscessment but IMHO far less than the sales creatures posted on the resoprts website.If we get hit big it will just lower our rental profits from the padst several years

But for Joe and the others to make the claim that they have more experiance than 700 weeks of just our  Christmas MountainUDI's and not counting our 34 or so ownerships we have owned rented or exchanged lets see their proof with would be unable to produce because they do not have the vast amount of provable facts like we do. 

In regards to your "But I think you miss that many other owners are also willing to admit that these trades happen, just not as frequently as they'd personally be comfortable with" 

I will respectfully as unlike you they may be afraid to post those that fact as they may feel Team Marriott may make person snide unfounded attack comments instead of addressing issues.

Bruce


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## GregT (Jan 29, 2012)

brucecz said:


> QUOTE=m61376;1236245]Since you are being so factual, you should recognize that a TDI of 150 in Wisconsin does not mean that II rates the week higher than even a 100 elsewhere. TDI is ONLY pertinent for the given region, and reflects relative demand for a given area, and CANNOT be used to compare demand or trading strength between different locales.
> 
> So hopefully you now understand the real significance of II's TDI and will not mistakenly reference it as factually supporting something that it does not.
> 
> ...



Thank you for the contribution.   

Please feel free to start a thread somewhere (else) that says "This is why I love my Christmas Mountain timeshare" and list the reasons.  I will listen to your positive stories and will be happy for you.  

Best,

Greg


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## dioxide45 (Jan 29, 2012)

brucecz said:


> I understood that fact over 10 years ago when I joined II and statred doing rentals.  It as factually supporting up to a point in regards to value but it is a fun question to ask those snobs that think the midwest has no demand value.  II says differant in the II demand charts no matter how others want to spin it to fit their agenda.
> 
> I also understand that some exchange comanies rate Florida as having redtime all year which is a joke.
> 
> ...



I don't get it, why does it have to come down to money and financial sense in order to love a product? Why are you so fixated on the financial sense of all of this. Give it up, no one wants to hear your argument anymore.


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## brucecz (Jan 29, 2012)

dioxide45 said:


> I don't get it, why does it have to come down to money and financial sense in order to love a product? Why are you so fixated on the financial sense of all of this. Give it up, no one wants to hear your argument anymore.



Joe brings it up if you checked his other Tug postings and bought it up even before I posted or are you forgetting that fact.

Look are entittled to your opinion but I note unlike some of the common sense ones who seem to be fair and balanced ones you ducked the other issues. 

Just keeping  peaching to the same like minded Team Marriott that your Team Marriott viewsare the only correct ones  any any others views contary to :rofl: yours are wrong.

Bruce


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## CashEddie (Jan 29, 2012)

Folks,

I think this thread has crossed over into a realm of no return.

At the end of the day, it's all about what makes you and your family happy no matter what you own. If you purchased prime weeks at the top Marriotts, that's great. If you can trade into weeks that satisfies your travel needs: wonderful!  At this point, I don't see why there is a debate and really it has become counter productive. 

Just enjoy your vacations how you choose to enjoy them.


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## GregT (Jan 29, 2012)

brucecz said:


> I have reservered in the 10 years at least over 700  reservation Christmas Mountain and Timbers at Christmas Mountain reservations.  Our Timber at Christmas Mountain UDI's MF's are $1,040. But each  reservation costs us a $55 housekeeping fees  so if we only get 10 reservations per ownership the average cost per reservation of less than $160.
> By the way we get free gold and free ski lift prilivages with our Timbers at Christmas Mountain UDI's.
> 
> Please name us one Marriott that can do the things above that our at Christmas Mountain UDI's in one years on just one ownership.



DISCLAIMER:  I know I'm going to regret perpetuating this -- sorry all.


Bruce,

I'm happy for you that you've got a timeshare that works for you -- I don't mean to condescend here, but the last TUG reviews (which may not reflect how you feel about your timeshare) don't reflect the type of timeshare that I am looking for.    The last review depicts a worn property in a small ski town (but with some good features to it).     It is nice that you've been there 10 times for $160 each stay, but that's not what I am looking for.   

I fully acknowledge that you may have the same fond memories of that property with your family for years to come -- which would be great -- and I fully hope that property is still there in 20 years for the next generation to enjoy.

I am willing to pay a premium -- a big premium -- for different amenities and comforts that Marriott provides.  That doesn't make either one of us right or wrong and it doesn't mean your stupid or that I am stupid.  We just have different desires. 

Timeos will argue that I can just rent and owning is not necessary, but my personal preference is to not be still searching for that week/view when FF awards open, and both week & view are important to me.  Everyone has a system that works for them.

So, Timbers at Christmas Mountain may be a great property for you, but it isn't what I'm looking for.  I'm still loving my Marriotts (and Hilton and Starwood and Worldmark).

Best,

Greg


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## dioxide45 (Jan 29, 2012)

brucecz said:


> Just keeping  peaching to the same like minded Team Marriott that your Team Marriott viewsare the only correct ones  any any others views contary to :rofl: yours are wrong.
> 
> Bruce



Bruce, I would say that you have a similar like minded view, just from the other side. Doesn't make one right or wrong Bruce.

Bruce, you also noted in another post that Joe was being condescending. Did you go back and count how many times you said Joe's name in your responses to him? Perhaps you should Bruce. Do you talk like that in the real world? If you did Bruce, I would take that as being condescending. It comes across as speaking AT someone Bruce, not WITH someone.

Would I talk like that when I was talking with someone in a conversation? Absolutely not.

Also note, after over five years and 1600 posts on this board, I would have thought you would know how to use multi quote. It is that little button beside the Quote button. My last response required a lot of work to clean up the "quoting" mess you left behind. Take a look at post 142, it sure isn't easy to figure out where your quotes of Joe's responses end and your response starts.


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## MOXJO7282 (Jan 29, 2012)

brucecz said:


> I see by the time of your last post you may not be getting enough sleep as you seemingly have posts and facts confused..
> 
> Again Joe, you try to pick and choose and claim not to be arrogant. "Quoting you"What I find amusing is those that try to refute have no :rofl: experience obtaining these weeks but yet they speak as an authority. And no a May week at Newport Coast is not a prime week. " Unquote
> 
> ...



*Bruce - from what I've read Laguna Beach Resort doesn't even have a pool, and you still want to say it more in demand?
*
I'm not sure why you continue to come after my TS lifestyle but that's OK I'm a big boy.  One thing for sure I don't bragg about my ownership, so you're off base with that. Please point out where I bragg vs just stating my case. 

As for Newport Gold May week, I never said it was a high demand because I know its not.

I'm sorry if you think I'm mocking you, because I'm not. I respect the fact that even one has a right to their opinion, however wrong it may be. 

You're the one that comes across uptight because we don't agree with you.

The argument is can non-Marriotts get prime time weeks. I say no and ask for examples. You and the others "Marriott haters" come back with non-sensical examples like Newport May and then say well Mexico is better than Maui anyway.  

*Pleas one example of a trade into a 2BDRM prime Marriott week using a low-end CMV like week and I'll tip my cap to you and say wow you were right. *

Please don't come back with nonsense about how Wiscosin has the same demand, because that is utterly ridiculous. So if all things being the same, cost and availability you think more people would want to spend there summer in Wis than So Cal?  Sorry that is just ridculous.

If you've read my posts you'd see that getting great Marriott trades in the shoudler season is very possible because we've seen many examples, like your Newport May week. That is an excllent trade and you should be happy with that.

What you can't do is score a 2BDRM prime time week and you and others refuse to accept that and you are 100% wrong in not  acknowledging that.


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## Beefnot (Jan 29, 2012)

brucecz said:


> QUOTE=m61376;1236245]
> 
> I understood that fact over 10 years ago when I joined II and statred doing rentals.  It as factually supporting up to a point in regards to value but it is a fun question to ask those snobs that think the midwest has no demand value.  II says differant in the II demand charts no matter how others want to spin it to fit their agenda
> 
> Bruce



M61376 was pointing out that the TDI charts measured demand for a given area  relative to other weeks of the year, not relative to other areas. There was no snobbery nor any assertion that the midwest was more or less in demand. Just that your representation of II's trade demand index was inaccurate.  

If timeos2, and to a lesser degree myself, sent this thread sideways, then you, by comparison, have hijacked this thread into the WTC. Cmon man, chill out and let folks celebrate without exhibiting this unfounded paranoia that other folks' happiness with their timeshares is some veiled attack on the way you choose to vacation.


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## MOXJO7282 (Jan 29, 2012)

GregT said:


> DISCLAIMER:  I know I'm going to regret perpetuating this -- sorry all.
> 
> 
> Bruce,
> ...


Very well stated as usual. The only thing I'll add is in this case they are wrong.


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## GregT (Jan 29, 2012)

MOXJO7282 said:


> Very well stated as usual. The only thing I'll add is in this case they are wrong.



Joe, my good man and fellow marriott owner, you are a man of strong opinions.  

I'd love to hear the following from you:

1) your favorite HHI story
2) your favorite Aruba story
3) your favorite MOC story

Thanks very much -- I hope we have a Painkiller/Mai Tai together one of these years!

Best,

Greg


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## brucecz (Jan 29, 2012)

Greg,  I appreciate and  understand your point of veiw as expressed in your posting below as` it comes across as fairly fair minded. IMHO

I too have enjoyed Marriotts in any timeframe that we wanted which are mainly non peak demand times.  The problem for some on this string is that they do not like hearing the fact that we can exchange into Marriotts at a far lesser cost.

The term "left overs" goes both ways

The CMV Ownerships have been for a long time great tool for us to meet our timeshare goals at a condiderabilty lower cost and also produce rental income.

I understand your referance to the Tug reviews and it does not bother me  seeing what those ownerships  have done for us for over 11 years in the way of benifits. It is what it is.

As`a example we owned at the resort on Coca`Beach, rented out and then sold about 5 years ago without staying there. We exchanged into there through II at about the same amount that we save exchanging into the  NewPort or some of the other Marriott areas we have stayed in.

As far as us, we go were want to when we want and stay were we want to.

We choose to own at mostly older resorts we bought resale as in a` lot of cases they have better locations than the newer resorts. In Puerto Vallarta we stayed one time about 11 years ago at the Mayan Palace and did not care for the newer fashioned units  did not care for the cold huge resort cold attitude.It  felt like a Howard J. motel 15 miles from our home.

Bigger and glizy is not our type of vacation and we do not need it to validate our self worth.

But last November we exchanged for a 3 bedroom 2,700 square foot penthouse at one of our Home resorts  the Ocean Front Gold Crown Lindo Mar were all of the units are about 100 feet from the water. My total prorated exchange cost including MF's and $179 upgrade was under $450.

The day before the whales put on a breeching for about 1/2 hour about 200 yards off shore that we watch from our balcony. We also see rays, etg from our balcony. 

I hear Hawaii is nice and judging by some of the ebay MF's listed there as high as over $3,000 per week those who want that type of vacation, more power to them.


As a example for the two of us the Laguna Surf meets our needs better and when we go there this early May we also reservered the New Port as my wifes sister may comedown from LA and we have enjoyed staying there. It might meet your families needs but I would not feel defensive about that fact just like I will not get defensive and attack of what you posted about our CMV UDI's.

So we will check in to the NewPort one day before checking into the Laguna Surf. We just bought the Surf late last year after most  ocean units had been picked over. Out of the 25 units about 18 units are on the ocean side and about 7 are on the street side. We were luky to be able to split that week and spend the frist 4 days on the street side and Fri-Sun on the Ocean side.


There fore we are using the New port as a back up in case we do not want to say over night on the Laguna Surf unit  because of possable street sound isses that is on the street side and  are happy to stay at the New port those 4 nights but use the Surf during the day times unitl we move ocean front on Friday for the weekend. 

So we have given ourselfs that flexabilty at a high peorated cost for both places for a bit under $1,000.

Bruce 



GregT said:


> DISCLAIMER:  I know I'm going to regret perpetuating this -- sorry all.
> 
> 
> Bruce,
> ...


----------



## brucecz (Jan 29, 2012)

MOXJO7282 said:


> Very well stated as usual. The only thing I'll add is in this case they are wrong.



Your post offers no creditable substance.

On what points that you had ducked before am I am mistaken?

Your certain smug posts now in the Tug Buying and selling area  a few days ago on your buying and selling profits and what a great money making investment your Marriotts are. 

What other systems do you own in that you know the ins and outs in getting great value out of? Please name them.

On this string you posted how a Marriot can save you money because you could book early.  Any timeshare can do the same with proper planning. You try to justify it as being rocket science and it not. That was so waek so that is why you avoid real issues you have been called out on.


You should IMHO quit now as you are falling farther behind and get the sleep you missed last night judging by the time this AM you posted.


Bruce


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## IngridN (Jan 29, 2012)

brucecz said:


> ......
> Bigger and glizy is not our type of vacation and we do not need it to validate our self worth.
> 
> ......
> Bruce



Keep your cheap shots to yourself. Now you are insulting me. I paid my dues over the years staying in cheap places because I wanted to travel as much as possible, but didn't have the money for Marriott-type accommodations. Now that I do, it has nothing to do about 'validating my self worth' but you seem to think it does. 

It's perfectly OK to not have the money for the finer things in life, really it is...don't be so defensive about it    .

Ingrid


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## MOXJO7282 (Jan 29, 2012)

brucecz said:


> Your post offers no creditable substance.
> 
> On what points that you had ducked before am I am mistaken?
> 
> ...


I'm sorry I can't helped myself because I like Marriott and i love to "discuss" it.

Smug? Really? When I offered my advice or have an opinion on how a resale Marriott can be a great buy? OK, I've been called worse.  

I know of no other system and never have claimed to. I have so much success with Marriott I don't care about any other. Over my 10 years of TSing I've looked at many and TUG has exposed many others to me. Marriott is the only one that suites my family. 

What I don't do is bad mouth other TSs or TUGGERS. I do speak with a strong voice if someone wants to continue a debate about the benefits of Marriott, espacially when they are inaccurate. 

Lastly your comments on booking early to secure FF seats is again an example of something you know absolutely nothing about as opposed to me who has done many times. 

We've flown first class 6x to Maui thanks to our Marriott ownership. That's a family of 4, 24 1st class tickets to Maui. Somehow I doubt I'm going to do that with CMVs but maybe I should look into it.

Now you will certainly intepret this as bragging and disrepecting your CMVs, but it really is just me defending what I know to be true, that our Marriott ownership has been the best thing we ever did for our family, from a financial, but more importantly from a priceless memory standpoint.


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## Beefnot (Jan 29, 2012)

MOXJO7282 said:


> We've flown first class 6x to Maui thanks to our Marriott ownership. That's a family of 4, 24 1st class tickets to Maui. Somehow I doubt I'm going to do that with CMVs but maybe I should look into it.



Are your first class flights a direct function of _ownership_, or of _stays_ in Marriott properties, and using a rewards card for purchases? And/or also partially due to buying from developer?  If what you have accomplished with first class flights could not have been accomplished via the same or lower cost via buying resale or exchanging, and applying the differential from a developr purchase toward first class flights, then that would indeed be a reason to love your Marriott.


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## dioxide45 (Jan 29, 2012)

Beefnot said:


> Are your first class flights a direct function of _ownership_, or of _stays_ in Marriott properties, and using a rewards card for purchases? And/or also partially due to buying from developer?  If what you have accomplished with first class flights could not have been accomplished via the same or lower cost via buying resale or exchanging, and applying the differential from a developr purchase toward first class flights, then that would indeed be a reason to love your Marriott.



My guess is that it is several things. You can earn points from Marriott hotel stays, through their credit card, buying stuff online, or buying points from Marriott at $0.0125 per point. Anyone can do that.

However, the bulk of points that Marriott owners can earn come from trading a week in for Marriott Reward points. Until 6/20/10 only developer TS purchasers could get those. Now resale owners that have enrolled in the DC program get that benefit too.


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## Twinkstarr (Jan 29, 2012)

We really need one of those popcorn eating smilies for this thread. 

(it is very usefull over on the DVC section on the Dis boards).


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## brucecz (Jan 29, 2012)

IngridN said:


> Keep your cheap shots to yourself. Now you are insulting me. I paid my dues over the years staying in cheap places because I wanted to travel as much as possible, but didn't have the money for Marriott-type accommodations. Now that I do, it has nothing to do about 'validating my self worth' but you seem to think it does.
> 
> It's perfectly OK to not have the money for the finer things in life, really it is...don't be so defensive about it    .



Another Marriott poster presents not one fact or issues but seemingly can only throw mud. How sad.

IngridN, I am sure your post making a personal attack makes other Team Marriott owners proud, but the rest might be appalled..

Yours is nothing but a mistaken cheap shot by a Marriott snob  who dodges certain facts and who may not really understand the timeshare market  and value  and have exposed your self as such and that is so sad

You desperate cheap shop may be the result that you admitt you did not know enough to exchange into a Marriott while paying far less than a Marriott owner. I. enjoy using the Marriotts but some really do need updating.

In regards to finanicals ( note aonther  Marriott owner brings this up) we  live on a lake between Milwaukee and Chicago and it sounds like you might  not  be able afford it seeing Al Capones  old  Villa retreat is only 2 houses north of ours. Would you like when I get home to send you a picture of my Classic 65 prize  winning Corvette roadster worth about 50 or more resale Marriotts? 

Or you could go to the Clenet website and ask the present owner of Badged # 155 who he bought it from  from.If you do not know what a klenet is then you are not aware of some of the finer things like a Clenet worth many times what a Marriots resale for. Or we could send you a picture of it.

You may have seen a Clenet but not known what it is. It was produced  in Santa Barara and  soul singer A. Franklin had one at one time. If you go to that site you would see a few  of famous owners own them.

Our our Deck boats or jet skis and snowmobiles. Our everyday rides are a 2011 Chrysler van and a extended GMC Denalie. The van was bought because it has fold down  seats for our 2 Great Danes

In your case if your Marriott is such a big thing in your life It's perfectly OK to not have the money for the finer things in life like a year round home on the lake, a classic prize winning Corvett or a Clenet and at one time 4 Corvettes in the driveway before we down sized to travel more , really it is...don't be so defensive about it. 

But your outrage  in your post taking umbridge at my "Bigger and glizy is not our type of vacation and we do not need it to validate our self worth." is to say the least interesting.


I will get back to vacationing unless the Team Marriott mob wants to sling mud but IMHO most of it lands on them.  

Bruce


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## dioxide45 (Jan 29, 2012)

brucecz said:


> Would you like when I get home to send you a picture of my Classic 65 prize  winning Corvette roadster worth about 50 or more resale Marriotts?



All of a sudden you now have a need to validate your self worth?

The dribble is actually getting comical.


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## MOXJO7282 (Jan 29, 2012)

Beefnot said:


> Are your first class flights a direct function of _ownership_, or of _stays_ in Marriott properties, and using a rewards card for purchases? And/or also partially due to buying from developer?  If what you have accomplished with first class flights could not have been accomplished via the same or lower cost via buying resale or exchanging, and applying the differential from a developr purchase toward first class flights, then that would indeed be a reason to love your Marriott.



First off I've only bought 4 of the 15 I've owned direct from Marriott the last being my MOW July 4th week in 2004. 

And although it makes the Marriott haters blood boil I make no apologies and have no regrets for buying direct when I did because back then resales were far and few between, resale prices were certainly much higher than today if you did see something , direct prices weren't yet obscene and Marriott was giving a ton of points away that in turn converted to incredibly valuable travel packages.  

Since then most of my points come from business and pleasure stays, but a big chunk just from playing my MFs with my Marriott Visa.

Besides if you knew my whole story you would see how off base Bruce comments really are.  I purchased all my direct purchases with 0% credit cards and played that game to perfection to own something we never could've afforded otherwise so I've never advocated buying direct I just stated what I did. I actually manipulated the system to get to where I am. One thing lead to another and now I own 11 Marriott units.

I'm just a working class stiff raising a family who found a way to travel large with free money. Its well documented as I've been with TUG for some time.

Back then I couldn't afford resale let alone direct or 1st class to Maui, not on our budget. I figured out a way to buy something using the banks money that generated enough to pay for itself and thensome, and even created airfare that I couldn't afford. Quite honestly I just stumbled on my system.

I bought our first Maui in 2002 for $39k, with a Marriott Visa (back then they let you do the whole thing on credit card for big points) and then balance transfer 12 month 0% thinking at some point I'll flip it to a HELOC.

The 2nd year of ownership when we couldn't go I put it up on ebay and made almost 3k profit above MFs!!  It was the easiest money I ever made.  

I did another Maui purchase the same way, and then to me the best deal ever that I kick myself for not buying more, our Aruba Surf Club purchase in 2003. The initial pricing and points offering was unbelievable. Then 2004 MOW plat + week the exact same way. 

By then the cat was out of the bag and Marriott just stopped giving points and their pricing just skyrocketed so direct purchases never made sense again, IMHO.

Since then I juggled probably 6-10 0% credit cards to pay down my ownership, never having to take out a personal loan of any kind or even 2nd mortgage that was always my fall back if my system crashed and burned. 

It didn't and 10 years later rentals are stronger than ever because AND THIS IS THE KEY -  because Marriott is a great product that is tremendously popular and many, many people just love them so that the demand is so high it is still easy to rent my spare weeks for MF+. 

I don't believe any other TS company could have done for me what Marriott has done.   

I never said it was for everyone but for those that wanted the same I've always detailed my success here in TUG for their sake and people like Bruce always chime in.

This is an age old argument that I remember having in year one of my ownership with people whose names I haven't seen in awhile were just like Bruce is today.

I only hope that their words are in some way all in good debate because I certainly don't mean to ever make someone feel bad and usually show good restraint when called names although I do get defenseive at times because this argument does get old. 

That's my story and why I still love my Marriotts!!


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## MOXJO7282 (Jan 29, 2012)

dioxide45 said:


> My guess is that it is several things. You can earn points from Marriott hotel stays, through their credit card, buying stuff online, or buying points from Marriott at $0.0125 per point. Anyone can do that.
> 
> However, the bulk of points that Marriott owners can earn come from trading a week in for Marriott Reward points. Until 6/20/10 only developer TS purchasers could get those. Now resale owners that have enrolled in the DC program get that benefit too.



Now this is on topic that provides another reason I love my Marriotts. We get 82k MAR points from our annual MF payment with Mar Visa alone, so  with just that we can get a great travel package every 4th year. 

In actuality we secure enough MAR points with stays and whatnot that every other year we have enough for a travel package.  IMHO that is a nice little return.


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## brucecz (Jan 29, 2012)

dioxide45 said:


> All of a sudden you now have a need to validate your self worth?
> 
> The dribble is actually getting comical.



No, I do not feel a need to validate self worth  and start the mudsling in regards what someone can afford like she did as your fellow Team Marriott member.


Yes your dribble is sad  and not comical as long as you bought it up as it was on her pa

 Marriott owners like her who post that type of junkI  do not let those wrong statements go unchallaged. I see you offer no facts just the sameo sameo non factual post

Maybe her Marriott is the biggest  asset in her life she might have. I do not know or do not care, it is her problem.

Of course Marriott owners will stick up each other despite the facts . It is a herd Team :rofl: Marriott.

Of course the real Team Marriott was the group who sold deleveloper weeks to some here that in some cases  but not all cases resell for  10%  of what they sold them for.  Newport is at about the   25% mark if you check the ebay. completed sales if you want true facts what they are worth.
That is a great investment according to Joe.

Hopefully you Team Marriotter's will let go and stop the mudslinding as I would like to have not to respond to non factural cheap shops.

Enjoy your Marriotts like I do and thanks for paying to build them.

Bruce


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## dioxide45 (Jan 29, 2012)

brucecz said:


> No, I do not feel a need to validate self worth  and start the mudsling in regards what someone can afford like she did as your fellow Team Marriott member.



If you didn't feel the need to validate your self worth, why did you come back with the response you did? Lets stick to the statements and keep away from the rhetoric.


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## ilene13 (Jan 29, 2012)

How about if we just end this thread. Enough is enough.  Those of us with Marriott timeshares love them--and those with other timeshares love them also.


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## GregT (Jan 29, 2012)

Ilene,

I'm trying to end this thread -- I've sent two posts to Moderators asking for them to moderate.  I would take an end to this thread.

Whatever the motives of the people who hi-jacked this thread, I will never understand.

But I still love my Marriott timeshares!  

Thread hi-jackers not so much right now.     And missing our TUG moderators...

Best,

Greg


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## Beefnot (Jan 29, 2012)

MOXJO7282 said:


> Now this is on topic that provides another reason I love my Marriotts. We get 82k MAR points from our annual MF payment with Mar Visa alone, so  with just that we can get a great travel package every 4th year.
> 
> In actuality we secure enough MAR points with stays and whatnot that every other year we have enough for a travel package.  IMHO that is a nice little return.



Is there any point premium for paying Marriot MFs with the MAR card vs. paying my non-Mar MFs with a MAR card, or a premium for Marriott stays as an owner vs. Marriott stays as an exchanger? If so, that may figure into whether I jump back into Marriott ownership.


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## dioxide45 (Jan 29, 2012)

Beefnot said:


> Is there any point premium for paying Marriot MFs with the MAR card vs. paying my non-Mar MFs with a MAR card, or a premium for Marriott stays as an owner vs. Marriott stays as an exchanger? If so, that may figure into whether I jump back into Marriott ownership.



Marriott purchases made to the Marriott Rewards credit card earn five (or three) points per dollar spend. Maintenance fee payments count as a Marriott purchase. So $10,000 in MF purchases could earn someone 50,000 points. Non Marriott owners would only get one point per dollar if paying their MF with the Marriott Rewards credit card.


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## Aviator621 (Jan 29, 2012)

GregT said:


> Thread hi-jackers not so much right now.     And missing our TUG moderators...



Greg, thanks for trying to start what at the time was a very enjoyable thread.  I'm sad for you that it changed in to this. And I'm REALLY missing Dave M right about now...


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## Karen G (Jan 29, 2012)

ilene13 said:


> How about if we just end this thread. Enough is enough.  Those of us with Marriott timeshares love them--and those with other timeshares love them also.


What a great idea!  

Honestly, having taken the time to read all the pages of this thread, I think one could easily have substituted "why I love my Grand Mayan/Grupo Mayan timeshare" and gotten into some real Mexican mudslinging like we've seen on the Mexico forum in the past. . . . but, PLEASE don't do that!


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