# When Friends or Family ask



## maggiesmom (Sep 11, 2013)

Should we(family member) buy where you did or some where else.

Example, my brother called me and asked which TS would be good for his family.
I told him he needed to know where he and the family wanted to go, hands down he said was to Orlando and they did not like the idea of points system and found out that a float week is more flexible for them. I told them that I only know about *wood and DVC,  and I have bought resale - and NEVER from the developer and have know more information on any other TS in Orlando . And not to buy into Westgate. Told him to check out tug2 and look it over. He said he did and got more confused than ever.

So could you please help me out. I know that a 2 bedroom( he has young to teens). They would go every year, and would like the fees to be around 600 to 750 a year. Is this possible?? let me know. Thanks


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## MichaelColey (Sep 11, 2013)

Orlando can be a bit tough, especially to own.  MFs for many Orlando properties are in the $750-$1000 range.  I think most of the systems (Starwood, Wyndham, Marriott, etc.) are comparable to that (for enough points for a non-elite 2BR week), as well.  And DVC is way more than that.

He could also buy a cheap trader elsewhere and exchange into Orlando, but by the time you add in annual fees, exchange fees, etc., he's back up to the same price range.

I suspect that if he's just looking for a week or two every year, he might come out cheaper just renting from a Wyndham VIP owner (or even off of eBay).


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## csxjohn (Sep 11, 2013)

maggiesmom said:


> Should we(family member) buy where you did you some where else.
> 
> Example, my brother called me and asked which TS would be good for his family.
> I told him he needed to know where he and the family wanted to go, hands down he said was to Orlando and they did not like the idea of points system and found out that a float week is more flexible for them. I told them that I only know about *wood and DVC,  and I have bought resale - and NEVER from the developer and have know more information on any other TS in Orlando . And not to buy into Westgate. Told him to check out tug2 and look it over. He said he did and got more confused than ever.
> ...



There is a real good chance that his taste for Disney World will change as the kids grow.

He should realize this may happen before he makes that decision.


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## maggiesmom (Sep 11, 2013)

I know that they don't do Disney. Their more into Universal and going to the water parks/ Nick nack shopping , things like that. I'll call him later and ask about buying  to exchange a unit to get into Orlando. Not sure if he would rent points.


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## stoler527 (Sep 11, 2013)

They probably wouldn't need that strong of a trader to get into Orlando.

We own a blue Marriott week in Palm Desert. They are selling for from $1 to $5 on ebay. The maintenance is a bit over $1000. However, we can usually lock it off and get two two bedrooms in Orlando. Flexibility with dates helps a lot. Getting two weeks breaks the maintenance per day way down. II has other special programs that they might be able to use to get extra vacation time.


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## Saintsfanfl (Sep 11, 2013)

You can use a $500 to $800 lockoff and trade into Orlando prime time all the time. Easiest trade in the world. Jul 4 at a Marriott? No problem.


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## MichaelColey (Sep 11, 2013)

Crafty527 said:


> They probably wouldn't need that strong of a trader to get into Orlando.
> 
> We own a blue Marriott week in Palm Desert. They are selling for from $1 to $5 on ebay. The maintenance is a bit over $1000. However, we can usually lock it off and get two two bedrooms in Orlando. Flexibility with dates helps a lot. Getting two weeks breaks the maintenance per day way down. II has other special programs that they might be able to use to get extra vacation time.


Yep, but at $500 per side and a $200 exchange fee, that's $700 per week.  You can rent for that (or less).


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## SMHarman (Sep 11, 2013)

Saintsfanfl said:


> You can use a $500 to $800 lockoff and trade into Orlando prime time all the time. Easiest trade in the world. Jul 4 at a Marriott? No problem.


Add trade fees and you are now into the 1000-1100 range.


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## SMHarman (Sep 11, 2013)

maggiesmom said:


> So could you please help me out. I know that a 2 bedroom( he has young to teens). They would go every year, and would like the fees to be around 600 to 750 a year. Is this possible?? let me know. Thanks


What facilities does he expect for his fees?
To get fees at around that level you would have a low rent property.
Or a 1Br.  Now he could look to a 1Br plus trade fees to get into a 2Br for a week.  An SDO 1Br costs around nothing to pick up and 600 a year in MF, add a trade fee and you are at the 750 mark.
From the *W side if Orlando is the destination then buying an 81k or 96k SO contract in Bella or Key West would be the way I would go so he has 12m preference in booking the weeks they want, has alternatives in SVN, some resale value and two good Orlando destinations.  But that is not $750 a year in MF.


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## ronparise (Sep 11, 2013)

SMHarman said:


> What facilities does he expect for his fees?
> To get fees at around that level you would have a low rent property.
> Or a 1Br.  Now he could look to a 1Br plus trade fees to get into a 2Br for a week.  An SDO 1Br costs around nothing to pick up and 600 a year in MF, add a trade fee and you are at the 750 mark.
> From the *W side if Orlando is the destination then buying an 81k or 96k SO contract in Bella or Key West would be the way I would go so he has 12m preference in booking the weeks they want, has alternatives in SVN, some resale value and two good Orlando destinations.  But that is not $750 a year in MF.



I dont consider Vacation Village at Parkway as "low rent"  its not 5 star but still quite nice.   MF for a 2 bedroom lockoff is $750


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## MichaelColey (Sep 11, 2013)

maggiesmom said:


> I know that a 2 bedroom( he has young to teens). They would go every year, and would like the fees to be around 600 to 750 a year. Is this possible?? let me know. Thanks





SMHarman said:


> What facilities does he expect for his fees?
> To get fees at around that level you would have a low rent property.


Not necessarily.  You can easily rent Wyndham Bonnet Creek (a very nice property) for $700 or less per week.  And since they're not Disney fans, there are plenty of other choices closer to the things they might be doing.

For our family, our exchanges typically end up costing $300 to $600 per week (and that's for top end properties!), but we get a lot of efficiency of scale due to the number of weeks we own/travel and cheap TPUs.  It's much harder to get close to that price for people who just travel one or two weeks a year.

I still contend that renting would be the most economical and simplest way for a family that primarily travels to Orlando a week or two a year.


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## simpsontruckdriver (Sep 11, 2013)

Go on eBay and look up Orange Lakes. My in-laws own a Week 20 2-bedroom suite in the East Village for less than $900 per year.

TS


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## csxjohn (Sep 11, 2013)

ronparise said:


> I dont consider Vacation Village at Parkway as "low rent"  its not 5 star but still quite nice.   MF for a 2 bedroom lockoff is $750



About the same for my 2Br lock off at Alhambra at Poincianna and it's a well kept, clean, perfect place to visit Orlando and still be away from the crowds.


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## SMHarman (Sep 11, 2013)

MichaelColey said:


> Not necessarily.  You can easily rent Wyndham Bonnet Creek (a very nice property) for $700 or less per week.  And since they're not Disney fans, there are plenty of other choices closer to the things they might be doing.
> 
> For our family, our exchanges typically end up costing $300 to $600 per week (and that's for top end properties!), but we get a lot of efficiency of scale due to the number of weeks we own/travel and cheap TPUs.  It's much harder to get close to that price for people who just travel one or two weeks a year.
> 
> I still contend that renting would be the most economical and simplest way for a family that primarily travels to Orlando a week or two a year.


OK but what are the MF on the points to book a Wyndham Bonnet Creek 2Br.  with Mega renters getting half price points and bonus points and things there is a strong price disadvantage to the single week contract owner.  

You are coming back to the point that for BIL / OP purpose it is better to use the $750 to rent a week rather than to buy a TS, even a $1 TS with an ongoing MF.


csxjohn said:


> About the same for my 2Br lock off at Alhambra at Poincianna and it's a well kept, clean, perfect place to visit Orlando and still be away from the crowds.


And I don't know the facilities / pools / activities etc.  What suits one may not suit another, especially if they have been tagging along to their sisters SVO properties


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## wed100105 (Sep 11, 2013)

We own with Wyndham and love it. People constantly ask me if they should buy. What they don't realize is that I spend a lot of hours keeping up with the system, booking reservations, keeping guests happy, etc. This is not my job; we just own 674,000 points and like to rent out some to cover our maintenance fees which are $306 a month. I enjoy being able to stay at fantastic properties and the vacations we have taken because we have our timeshare. I would suggest your brother rents from owners. With the Internet being such an easy way to see what is available at your fingertips, I would go that route. 

As far as booking Bonnet Creek, a two bedroom for prime season is 224,000 last I checked. If you managed to rentit for $100 a night, you would come out ahead. I figure $5 a point for MF. That doesn't include the purchase cost and any transaction fees from Wyndham. 

Owning our timeshare has been an awesome blessing with very few blips along the way (like the renter who never showed and still hasn't paid....) my husband would never travel as much as we do without the timeshare. That alone is worth it to me! There are many factors in making a decision to purchase! 

Hope that helps!


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## stoler527 (Sep 11, 2013)

MichaelColey said:


> Yep, but at $500 per side and a $200 exchange fee, that's $700 per week.  You can rent for that (or less).



The last time we exchanged, Marriott to Marriott, the exchange fee was $124.

Sometimes we go to places other than Orlando, but always stay at Marriotts. The quality of the resorts is consistently good. We feel safe exchanging in, even if we have never stayed in a particular resort before.

For us, renting does not work. If we don't own a week that must be used, we don't vacation at all. There is always some more practical use for the money.

Of course, we are concerned about the changes occurring for exchanging at II. At the current time, we have been able to successfully exchange our lockoff every year. Using special programs, we got 4 weeks of usage from our week this year. Using these programs, the exchange fees are quite a bit higher, though.


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## got4boys (Sep 12, 2013)

I would have him look at the Sheraton Vistana if he wants to go Orlando every year or every other year.

I would have him buy the ones that are float sections - like Cascades. (One of the lower fees in the resort for the two bedroom villa that sleeps 8) and target a holiday week (Christmas, New Year, Thanksgiving, President's Week) annually or every other year.

It is a fixed week, then turns to float.

Since he has kids, he would be limited to summer, holidays and spring break to go to Orlando. The float sections at Sheraton Vistana will allow him to do that without incurring additional costs.

Maintenance fees run about $750 for a 2 bedroom. (not lockout).

Sheraton Vistana just went through a major renovation.

Yes, you can trade in or exchange into Orlando for about that with some work.

I ended up buying these just due the maintenance fees and reservation and cancellation policy - no cost to change at all. I use these for holiday bookings when the cost to trade into Orlando is a lot more.


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## Saintsfanfl (Sep 12, 2013)

SMHarman said:


> Add trade fees and you are now into the 1000-1100 range.



Yes but that is for 2 weeks in a 2BR. Add in XYZ and/or AC and you can get $ per night down very low. Who needs that many weeks though.


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## SMHarman (Sep 12, 2013)

Saintsfanfl said:


> Yes but that is for 2 weeks in a 2BR. Add in XYZ and/or AC and you can get $ per night down very low. Who needs that many weeks though.


BUT the OP asked for a week with a $750 cap.  Saying I can sell you two weeks for $1200 is still outside that budget, even if you have moved the daily overnight accomodation cost from $107 a night to $85.
Maggies Mom know Starwood, the fees there for a 2Br for a week are

*Sheraton Vistana Villages - Bella - 2BR annual
*
Current Year Charges 

Maintenance Fee(s) $ 980.44 
Tax - If Applicable $ 118.56 
Membership Fee - If Applicable $ 0.00 
Other* $ 0.00 
Interest $ 0.00 
Late Fees $ 0.00 
ARDA ROC PAC Contrib.** $...


*Sheraton Vistana Villages - Key West - 2BR annual
*
Current Year Charges 

Maintenance Fee(s) $ 958.06 
Tax - If Applicable $ 107.47 
Membership Fee - If Applicable $ 0.00 
Other* $ 0.00 
Interest $ 0.00 
Late Fees $ 0.00 
ARDA ROC PAC Contrib.** $...

*Vistana Falls: Proposed*

Proposed (to be approved at the Oct. 23rd meeting) 
$753.26 (without taxes which weren't listed) 
2012 total: $855 + $58.52 taxes

*Wyndham Bonnet Creek*

as highlighted in a post above requires  224,000 points at a MF of $5 a point (I think that is meant to be $5/1000) so $ 1120 in MF.

The most on the money suggestion here so far is got4boys #17, highlighting the cheapest of the Sheraton options.  That comes with the drawback that you cannot lock off and use for two weeks of trades but is on the money for the OP question.

*It seems to me that the MF for most Orlando Properties is about $1k a week for the 2Br (LO or non LO).  Higher for Disney.*


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## kwindham (Sep 12, 2013)

ronparise said:


> I dont consider Vacation Village at Parkway as "low rent"  its not 5 star but still quite nice.   MF for a 2 bedroom lockoff is $750



+1  I own there as well and like the resort quite well.  We are not huge Disney fans either :ignore: more universal people like op's brother.  I don't recall my MF off the top of my head but they were within the op's range.


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## Saintsfanfl (Sep 12, 2013)

SMHarman said:


> BUT the OP asked for a week with a $750 cap.  Saying I can sell you two weeks for $1200 is still outside that budget, even if you have moved the daily overnight accomodation cost from $107 a night to $85.



They do sell eoy's. I have an eoy lockoff. 

Maintenance fee + membership fee + exchange fee = $625 per week.


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## DeniseM (Sep 12, 2013)

I would not advise him at all - send him to TUG and let him do his own homework.  If he follows your advice, and it doesn't work out for him, he is going to blame you...


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## SMHarman (Sep 12, 2013)

Saintsfanfl said:


> They do sell eoy's. I have an eoy lockoff.
> 
> Maintenance fee + membership fee + exchange fee = $625 per week.


That is an interesting way of doing it but requires a complicated bit of advice.
Buy this but don't use it, lock it off, deposit both sides and then put in requests to trade back to where you own.  It sounds really obtuse when you try to explain that to a non tugger!


DeniseM said:


> I would not advise him at all - send him to TUG and let him do his own homework.  If he follows your advice, and it doesn't work out for him, he is going to blame you...


You have a point.
Equally, if he wants to commit to this without the complexity the OP could pick up something that will do the job for him and he could pay the costs.  If OP likes the game of getting what they want, then adding getting what they want for Brother could be fun.  Though if some years it does not work out so well that could add stress.


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## DeniseM (Sep 12, 2013)

If someone is not willing to do their own research - I don't think they should buy a timeshare at all, because that probably indicates that they aren't detail oriented enough to be a successful owner.


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## Saintsfanfl (Sep 12, 2013)

DeniseM said:


> I would not advise him at all - send him to TUG and let him do his own homework.  If he follows your advice, and it doesn't work out for him, he is going to blame you...



So true...



DeniseM said:


> If someone is not willing to do their own research - I don't think they should buy a timeshare at all, because that probably indicates that they aren't detail oriented enough to be a successful owner.



...and true again.


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## csxjohn (Sep 12, 2013)

DeniseM said:


> If someone is not willing to do their own research - I don't think they should buy a timeshare at all, because that probably indicates that they aren't detail oriented enough to be a successful owner.



I don't agree with this at all.  

It may be true for people wanting to exchange up all the time or for those with  a lot of vaca time that can utilize a points system and all its nuances.


Now I do agree that a potential owner should do some research but much of that research could and often does involve asking other owners what they think, just like we do every day here on TUG.


For many of us, a simple weeks ownership at a place we like to vacation does not take a lot of detail orientation.  My week at Tropic Shores is a good example.  All I have to know is that I need to make my MF payments on time and call in to reserve a week.  In return I get a wonderful weeks vaca on the ocean in an area that you can do as much or as little as you want.



When the OP's bro came to TUG and left more confused than ever it points out that the complex systems many of you are familiar and comfortable  with are not for everybody.

When friends ask me about buying a timeshare I tell them what I think and direct them here.  In the past they have also come away confused.

My advice has always turned into suggesting that they rent from other owners before they jump into Timeshare World and to keep reading here until things clear up a little for them..


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## Saintsfanfl (Sep 12, 2013)

csxjohn said:


> I don't agree with this at all.



She said "if someone is not willing". Pick any topic and those that are "not willing" are usually not successful.


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## MichaelColey (Sep 12, 2013)

SMHarman said:


> OK but what are the MF on the points to book a Wyndham Bonnet Creek 2Br.  with Mega renters getting half price points and bonus points and things there is a strong price disadvantage to the single week contract owner.
> 
> You are coming back to the point that for BIL / OP purpose it is better to use the $750 to rent a week rather than to buy a TS, even a $1 TS with an ongoing MF.


Exactly.  It's $1000+ plus if you only own enough points for a 2BR week, but VIP owners get a good enough deal that they can rent a week out for $700 and still make a profit.  It's NOT hard to find nice 2BR timeshares (or larger units, or rental homes) in Orlando for $700/week or less.

In this entire thread, I don't think I've seen many other suggestion that let's someone get into Orlando consistently with just a single week per year for under $750/year.

I'm just saying that (especially for Orlando) renting is the simplest and one of the cheapest ways to go for typical vacationers.


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## csxjohn (Sep 12, 2013)

Saintsfanfl said:


> She said "if someone is not willing". Pick any topic and those that are "not willing" are usually not successful.



I understand what she said and that you and her both are very knowledgeable about timeshares, but I know I first got into this with only guidance from a friend, bought a float unit in Poincianna and although not the best choice at the time I feel that the use of that TS has been and still is successful.

Denise gives plenty of good advice and really goes above and beyond in trying to help  people.  I just think some people are in situations that advice from relative and friends might be enough to become a successful owner.


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## maggiesmom (Sep 12, 2013)

*Thanks for your help*

Call my brother last night and told him he should look at renting points to any of the properties that have caught their interest. And to check on Tug for reviews and ASK QUESTIONS before buying anything .

Thanks guys for all you help.


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## MichaelColey (Sep 12, 2013)

The other nice thing about renting is that if you pick a bad one, it's only one trip.  If you pick a bad timeshare to own, it's a much more expensive mistake.

I know the first timeshare I bought certainly wasn't the best (although it wasn't bad).  I know several of the first timeshares I stayed in certainly weren't the best (although a cople were great).  You learn as you go, and it's much cheaper to learn the ropes with rentals.


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## maggiesmom (Sep 13, 2013)

*He called again*

Hi, my brother called me back and was looking in the Virginia Area and wanted to know Which Resort he should avoid. I think he means something a kin to Westgate. I have know idea about the VA Area. 

He told me the things that are important to the family is that the Resort must have a small grocery store on site, and not to far from dining or dining on property, swimming pool(s), Fun thing for for the family to do on site(mini golf,game room.etc..) 2 bedroom/2bath and float 1-52.


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## momeason (Sep 13, 2013)

Have him buy you a platinum membership and you can book cheap getaways for him with no guest fees. Getaway is discounted and the guest fee is waived.
No one invests in a timeshare or join DAE and rent..free membership


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## vacationhopeful (Sep 13, 2013)

maggiesmom said:


> Hi, my brother called me back and was looking in the Virginia Area....
> 
> He told me the things that are important to the family is that the Resort must have a small grocery store on site, and not to far from dining or dining on property, swimming pool(s), Fun thing for the family to do on site(mini golf, game room.etc..) 2 bedroom/2bath and float 1-52.



"Small grocery on site" - why? Virginia has many stores. 

"Dining on site" unless it is a hotel locale - that is why TS have kitchens. Dining nearby -- almost every place has drive to dining.

"Swimming pools" - indoor required?

"Game room" and "mini-golf" - *Wyndham Kingsgate *(plus it has indoor pool) (and food shopping very nearby). As my nephews (and parents) can attest to, game room is far BETTER than the nearby Great Wolf Lodge's game room.


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## csxjohn (Sep 13, 2013)

maggiesmom said:


> ... I have know idea about the VA Area.
> 
> He told me the things that are important to the family is that the Resort must have a small grocery store on site, and not to far from dining or dining on property, swimming pool(s), Fun thing for for the family to do on site(mini golf,game room.etc..) 2 bedroom/2bath and float 1-52.



Virginia is a big area stretching from the mountains to the coast.  Have him look at this list from DAE and he can see what the different resorts offer.  These are only resorts that DAE has had exchanges for in the past.


http://www.daelive.com/articles/resorts.aspx  Click on the search button and scroll to Virginia


I thought he said he wants to go to Orlando most of the time?  Buying in VA is gong to incur exchange fees most likely to get to Orlando.

I would have to question his need for a grocery store on site unless he plans to fly to his resort.  If there is not a grocery store near a resort there is always one somewhere on the way there.


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## momeason (Sep 13, 2013)

My SIL owns Point at Poipu. She wanted us to go in with her on a points upgrade years ago when it was Sunterra. We signed and then I researched and we rescinded. I joined TUG shortly afterward.
I told her about TUG and she joined. I do not think she ever spent any time on the boards.  A couple of years later she " upgraded" with DRI. 
She wastes her timeshare week often. Tries to get us to use it and reimburse her..no way. I travel cheap than her week costs..lol.

You can lead a horse to water......

Oh well. It is her money. Although she owes some inheritance to each of my kids from her Dad. She was executor and they are still waiting on the money.
(Another story)


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## ace2000 (Sep 13, 2013)

Actually I am thinking about this one a little differently than the group here.  

I would advise the OP to ask the family member where she is interested in buying.  Then purchase a discount week on eBay and just advise her to buy from you at 50% savings off developer pricing  (with a nice cut for you).


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## dioxide45 (Sep 13, 2013)

The problem is when people ask, they think you can summarize it all up in about 15 minutes. There is far more to know than you can learn in 15 minutes. The problem is, people usually lose interest after about 10 minutes.


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## vacationhopeful (Sep 13, 2013)

It is the vocabulary of timesharing that loses them.

My lawyer brother years ago was watch the college football draft at the Sea Gardens Tiki Bar. I stop and he gets me a beer. He tells the one fellow my sister here booked up our room; guy asks a simple question and I go into TUG mode. In less than 2 minutes, another 5 guys at 3 different tables were doing the E.F. Hutton commercial look -- ear tilted, body leaning inward and then a few questions to me ... Oh, the he$$ with the football draft - got another free beer or two.

My brother review that later with me - he was stunned. He said all those guys were pretty smart and knew a lot of football, but he said he has never seen that immediate reaction. Told him most of those guys most likely had brought $75,000-125,000+ in Wyndham timeshare points, figured they were hosed over, felt they were being conned at every owners' updates by Wyndham crooks and didn't know anyone who knew much more than them. And they weren't sure WHAT they knew. I stood there and could explain stuff in an orderly fashion and RULEs on the how, what, how. Plus, we had come down to stay at Sea Gardens from a Royal Vista "00" unit - the Oceanfront units.


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