# Thinking about doing the timeshare thing...



## bwfoster15 (Feb 26, 2012)

Like others, I know people that either love or hate the idea of timeshares. My wife's uncle is a big fan of timeshares. He has 4 through RCI and he has let us use some of his points before. I really like the idea of the points and I've been checking out different places on RCI to see how many points I'd need for different places. So here is my question. Can you by a place that's not points, and then convert it to points? If so, how and how much? Thanks in advance!


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## ampaholic (Feb 26, 2012)

You are much better off buying one already converted to points as points is points.

Of course, if you have a favorite resort if you can get a points converted interval there you will get owner's ARP - that may be what you want to do.


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## DeniseM (Feb 26, 2012)

It's very expensive to convert to points...


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## presley (Feb 26, 2012)

You don't need to buy something that isn't exactly what you want.   There are so many TS available resale.  If you look hard enough, you will find exactly what you want.


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## bwfoster15 (Feb 26, 2012)

If y'all don't mind, check out these ebay auctions and let me know what you think. We tend to go to the Orlando area a lot, but I'd love to have the freedom that the points give you to travel anywhere.  That being said, I don't want a timeshare in the Orlando area because of the restriction with DVC.  Your input is much appreciated.  I'm a little apprehensive about the ones that don't take credit card or paypal.  

http://www.ebay.com/itm/150755642619?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649

http://www.ebay.com/itm/300668493088?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649

http://www.ebay.com/itm/160745742517?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649

http://www.ebay.com/itm/160746577791?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649


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## glypnirsgirl (Feb 26, 2012)

If you are buying to trade, the Vacation Villages (Bonaventura, Weston and the Parkway) have excellent maintenance fee to points ratio. The problem is that you do not know what the MFs will be in the future. And you are stuck even if the points are not what they are now. 

I have a points account and use it frequently. I am seeing fewer and fewer places that I want to go --- in points. They still are there on the weeks 
side.


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## LannyPC (Feb 26, 2012)

I checked out the first one - Vacations Village at Weston.  With property tax, the MFs are $846.  On Redweek, there are currently 5 units being offered for rent.  One is a floating week in December (around week 51).  It's being offered for rent for $699 and that's one of the higher ones.  Some in March are being offered for under $400.

The usual advice given on these boards is Why buy when you can rent for cheaper than the maintenance fees?  If you can't travel that year and want to rent it out, you will have a difficult, if not impossible, time recovering your MFs.

Also, if down the road you decide that this timeshare unit no longer fits into your plans and you want to divest yourself of ownership, you'll have an equally difficult time even giving it away.  After all, other "buyers" will likely adopt the same philosophy:  Why "buy" when you can rent for cheaper than the MFs?


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## rrlongwell (Feb 26, 2012)

bwfoster15 said:


> ...



Took a look at the acutions.  Three out four were for RCI points.  I do not know much about these.  I would go with Wyndham or one of the other large Points based systems.  You might want to look at a points contract that is large enough to handle a 2 bedroom in high demand season for a resort you are interested in.


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## Egret1986 (Feb 26, 2012)

*You can do research on TUG, which I recommend, before jumping in with both feet*



bwfoster15 said:


> If y'all don't mind, check out these ebay auctions and let me know what you think. We tend to go to the Orlando area a lot, but I'd love to have the freedom that the points give you to travel anywhere.  That being said, I don't want a timeshare in the Orlando area because of the restriction with DVC.  Your input is much appreciated.  I'm a little apprehensive about the ones that don't take credit card or paypal.
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/150755642619?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649
> 
> ...



There are many opinions when it comes to Points.  Are you sure that RCI Points is going to be the best "points" system for you?

Many are of the opinion that the underlying week doesn't matter and there are some that place value on the underlying week.  The underlying week is only one of my criteria.  Another thing that I consider is the points-to-maintenance fee ratio.  At least two of those auctions would not fit this criteria for me because the ratio is more than a penny a point.  If you determine that the underlying week is of no importance to you, then I believe you can find timeshares being given away with better ratios than these auctions.  One of my Points resorts has an annual MF of $480 and I get 67000annual points for it.  The underlying week is also a prime week in a free-standing unit, which can be rented or I enjoy staying in when I use the actual week.

Timeshare resales aren't going any where and prices aren't going up any time soon.  Easier to buy than get rid of if you find it's not working for you.


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## bwfoster15 (Feb 26, 2012)

Egret1986 said:


> There are many opinions when it comes to Points.  Are you sure that RCI Points is going to be the best "points" system for you?
> 
> Many are of the opinion that the underlying week doesn't matter and there are some that place value on the underlying week.  The underlying week is only one of my criteria.  Another thing that I consider is the points-to-maintenance fee ratio.  At least two of those auctions would not fit this criteria for me because the ratio is more than a penny a point.  If you determine that the underlying week is of no importance to you, then I believe you can find timeshares being given away with better ratios than these auctions.  One of my Points resorts has an annual MF of $480 and I get 67000annual points for it.  The underlying week is also a prime week in a free-standing unit, which can be rented or I enjoy staying in when I use the actual week.
> 
> Timeshare resales aren't going any where and prices aren't going up any time soon.  Easier to buy than get rid of if you find it's not working for you.



I'm leaning towards RCI for the chance to get into a Disney resort.  We go to Disney in the off season, so I'd think it would be easier to get in then.  Are there any others that can trade into Disney?


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## DeniseM (Feb 26, 2012)

Yes - RCI weeks also has access to Disney.


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## Egret1986 (Feb 26, 2012)

*I am also seeing fewer places in Points than I once did when I bought about 4 yrs ago*



glypnirsgirl said:


> I have a points account and use it frequently. I am seeing fewer and fewer places that I want to go --- in points. They still are there on the weeks
> side.



If you buy into RCI Points, you are basically stuck with RCI, whether it works for you or not.  That is another reason that I consider the underlying week.  I want it to be a decent week that I most likely can resell or at least giveaway if I want out.  I have bought several converted RCI Points timeshares that I have removed from RCI Points because the underlying weeks more valuable than keeping them in Points.  Somebody paid big money to convert these timeshares to Points.  If you do decide to go with RCI Points, you absolutely need to buy a timeshare that is already converted.

As mentioned previously, the Weston Resort (with its high maintenance fee) and inland location would be very hard to give away if you decided in the future that the RCI Points weren't working for you.  Tread carefully and make the best "informed" decision that you can.  Plenty of cheap rentals out there until you find what will best suit your vacation needs.


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## ace2000 (Feb 26, 2012)

bwfoster15 said:


> I'm leaning towards RCI for the chance to get into a Disney resort. We go to Disney in the off season, so I'd think it would be easier to get in then. Are there any others that can trade into Disney?


 
I'm going to re-state what was said previously... why buy when you can rent?

Seriously, you have no idea where these maintenance fees are going to go, and the recent trends are up, up, up. Unless you are absolutely sure this is what you want.  If so, buy into a system that you plan on using. Don't rely on the exchange companies, you'll be a lot better off in the long run.


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## bwfoster15 (Feb 26, 2012)

Ok, how about this.  The better bang for your buck points to MF ratio looks like it is in Orlando.  At least on ebay it is.  Being in Orlando, I can't get into a Disney resort. But, I can rent the points at $.01 a point and get into Disney using those points because that timeshare that I'm getting the points from isn't in the Orlando area?  Then I would be free to use my points anywhere else.


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## presley (Feb 26, 2012)

bwfoster15 said:


> Ok, how about this.  The better bang for your buck points to MF ratio looks like it is in Orlando.  At least on ebay it is.  Being in Orlando, I can't get into a Disney resort. But, I can rent the points at $.01 a point and get into Disney using those points because that timeshare that I'm getting the points from isn't in the Orlando area?  Then I would be free to use my points anywhere else.



Is there anything closer to home?  If you get a week at a local resort, you might get day use and bonus time.  Then, you could use your week towards a trade into DVC.

Have you looked at WorldMark?  They have a very high trading power and you can join RCI and trade for DVC.  Worldmark won't have a home resort, but you will be able to use any of their resorts as your home resort.


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## bwfoster15 (Feb 26, 2012)

presley said:


> Is there anything closer to home?  If you get a week at a local resort, you might get day use and bonus time.  Then, you could use your week towards a trade into DVC.
> 
> Have you looked at WorldMark?  They have a very high trading power and you can join RCI and trade for DVC.  Worldmark won't have a home resort, but you will be able to use any of their resorts as your home resort.



I have no idea what WorldMark is, but I'm about to google it!


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## Egret1986 (Feb 27, 2012)

*I don't necessarily think that is true; at least not from my personal experience*



bwfoster15 said:


> The better bang for your buck points to MF ratio looks like it is in Orlando.



I personally will not buy in Orlando for a couple of reasons.  I bought a Points timeshare with 95,500 annual points and a MF of $624 (excellent ratio) on eBay (rare find) located in North Carolina.  About a month ago, I bought another timeshare in North Carolina with 73,500 annual points with a MF of $624 (not as great, but still a very good ratio) on eBay.  My timeshare with 67000 annual points and a MF of $480 is located in Tennessee, also bought on eBay.  Points timeshares with good to very good ratios can probably be found in most areas.  You just have to look for them.  

I think your strategy to buy in Orlando and sell your points in order to rent a DVC is more work than you need to do to get into DVC. 

Keep asking questions and don't be in any rush to buy something.


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## bwfoster15 (Feb 27, 2012)

Egret1986 said:


> I personally will not buy in Orlando for a couple of reasons.  I bought a Points timeshare with 95,500 annual points and a MF of $624 (excellent ratio) on eBay (rare find) located in North Carolina.  About a month ago, I bought another timeshare in North Carolina with 73,500 annual points with a MF of $624 (not as great, but still a very good ratio) on eBay.  My timeshare with 67000 annual points and a MF of $480 is located in Tennessee, also bought on eBay.  Points timeshares with good to very good ratios can probably be found in most areas.  You just have to look for them.
> 
> I think your strategy to buy in Orlando and sell your points in order to rent a DVC is more work than you need to do to get into DVC.
> 
> Keep asking questions and don't be in any rush to buy something.



I doubt that I would sell my points.  They would get used, I'm sure.  Where did you find your deals, if you don't mind me asking? Other than ebay?


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## SOS8260456 (Feb 27, 2012)

From what I understand, if you own ANY resorts in the Orlando area, a block from booking DVC is put on the entire account, so I am not sure that your idea of renting other points to book DVC will work.


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## bwfoster15 (Feb 27, 2012)

SOS8260456 said:


> From what I understand, if you own ANY resorts in the Orlando area, a block from booking DVC is put on the entire account, so I am not sure that your idea of renting other points to book DVC will work.



See, thats what i thought too.  But there is an ad in the TUG classified section that says otherwise.  Who knows?


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## hypnotiq (Feb 27, 2012)

Does it block out all of DVC or only Orlando DVC?


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## SOS8260456 (Feb 27, 2012)

I honestly don't know if it blocks all.  I just know that I saw a few separate posts from people who were blocked because they owned in Orlando.  Maybe they the will chime in here.  I do know that when DVC was with Interval International the block was 50 mile local radious.  I always assumed that it was just II's policy.  But I guess Disney liked the policy so much, they insisted on it when they moved over to RCI.


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## presley (Feb 27, 2012)

hypnotiq said:


> Does it block out all of DVC or only Orlando DVC?



It's my understanding the block is about being 30 miles or less than a DVC resort.  So, owning Orlando would only block the Orlando DVCs.


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## bwfoster15 (Feb 27, 2012)

How bout this one?

http://greenville.craigslist.org/for/2864863733.html


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## theo (Feb 27, 2012)

*My $0.02 worth...*

To OP bwfoster15:

So far, you don't seem particularly open or amenable to the suggestion, but I'll nonetheless add my voice to those of others who have already suggested that you "*rent --- don't buy*". 

Orlando timeshares are a dime a dozen. You can usually rent there for less than the cost of the annual fees associated with actual (and very permanent) ownership. In renting, you can also try different places, at different times. Accordingly, what do you find so alluring about buying / owning in Orlando?


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## Egret1986 (Feb 27, 2012)

*Sorry, I thought you said that you were going to rent your Points out*



bwfoster15 said:


> I doubt that I would sell my points.  They would get used, I'm sure.  Where did you find your deals, if you don't mind me asking? Other than ebay?



My confusion.  

I found all my deals on eBay.  Terrible place to sell, great place to buy (price wise).


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## Timeshare Von (Feb 27, 2012)

theo said:


> To OP bwfoster15:
> 
> So far, you don't seem particularly open or amenable to the suggestion, but I'll nonetheless add my voice to those of others who have already suggested that you "*rent --- don't buy*".
> 
> Orlando timeshares are a dime a dozen. You can usually rent there for less than the cost of the annual fees associated with actual (and very permanent) ownership. In renting, you can also try different places, at different times. Accordingly, what do you find so alluring about buying / owning in Orlando?



Agreed . . . 100%.


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## Egret1986 (Feb 27, 2012)

*I looked, but didn't see the MFs listed.*



bwfoster15 said:


> How bout this one?
> 
> http://greenville.craigslist.org/for/2864863733.html



I think if you're patient, you can do better.  One of my Points timeshares is at the other resort managed by this group.  I believe you're going to pay the same MF for lesser points with weeks 23 and 40, as opposed to a summer week.  You might as well get the most points that you can for your annual maintenance fee (JMHO).  

There are just too many timeshares out there being give away.  If you're patient, you probably could find the same thing for free.  Although, this person may be willing to negotiate.

Have you checked the TUG Marketplace under Bargain Deals for Points?


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## slip (Feb 27, 2012)

With all the timeshares out there, your goal should be to get in for free and
Maybe even with a free years worth of usage. Be patient!! The right one will
Come along. If you do find exactly what you want you may have to pay some
Toward closing or transfer fees.

Good luck and happy hunting.

Aloha


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## bwfoster15 (Feb 27, 2012)

Ok. I'm open to the renting thing.  Anyone you recommend, or just look through the classifieds?


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## theo (Feb 27, 2012)

*My $0.02 worth...*



bwfoster15 said:


> Ok. I'm open to the renting thing.  Anyone you recommend, or just look through the classifieds?



1. Decide where (and when) you want to go.

2. Check out posted ads on RedWeek, MyResortNetwork, TUG, Craigslist, VacationTimeshareRentals for advertised weeks in the date frame and location range you have identified. 

3. Make your deal directly with the advertiser.


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## Pmuppet (Feb 27, 2012)

*Watch out before buying*

You need to be very careful before you buy a timeshare as the majority of timeshares for sale are worse than worthless.

I have owned two different timeshares in my life and i bought them both off ebay (generally the best place to buy them imo as their prices are generally the best you will find).

The key to finding out the value of a timeshare is seeing if the liquidated rental fee via ebay covers the cost of the annual maintenance fees.  You may be surprised to see most timeshares can be rented for less than the annual maintenance fee (dont look at asking prices for rentals look at completed auction prices).

You have to ask youself why do you want a timeshare?  That is the true question.  I believe that the only value to a timeshare is if you want to go to the same destination (and not trade it).  Once you trade your week, you pay fees to a company and not the owner and you lose leverage.  Why would anyone pay money for a timeshare for the obligation to pay maintenance fees that EXCEED the amount of rent you can get from the week you own the property?

Dont believe me, look at ebay.  People are staying at the Mahatten club in NYC for a week for $1400 (owners pay maintenance fees over $2200), westin in hawaii rent for $1000 or less (owners are paying $2500 a year in dues).

We dumped our one timeshare we had because of the exchange fees.  We kept the other cause the maintenance fees are less than we would pay to rent that same week (and we love the location, Whistler).

Bottom line, timeshares are bad investments financially because you can rent for hundreds (sometimes thousands) less than the owners pay in dues/fees annually.  Timeshares do offer utility cause you get pride of ownership in a unit.  

But your much better off financially renting a week from a timeshare owner, cause the saying is true...

Cash is King.


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## DeniseM (Feb 27, 2012)

Pmuppet said:


> westin in hawaii rent for $1000 or less (owners are paying $2500 a year in dues).



Just be aware that this is not the norm.  A 2 Bdm. ocean view at this resort normally rents for $3,600.  Even a studio goes for $1,550.


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## Pmuppet (Feb 28, 2012)

*Depends on your definition of norm...*

I agree that the values we both mentioned dont represent the average market rate.

The rate i quoted $1,000 for a week at the westin in Hawaii generally represents a last minute liquidator via ebay, and the price you mentioned $3,600 represents a prime week (xmas, new years, etc) with months to go before the actual check in date.

Truth is the market price for a week at Westin Hawaii is somwhere in between for the general public.  I suspect it is in the $2,000-$2,500 range for a week in a 2bed/2bath oceanview with minimal amount of research needed to find a property to rent whether it is Tug, Redweek, or another site.

That highlights the OP's question about timeshares.  You have to ask yourself if you can rent a week for less than the maintenance fees (you can in westin hawaii and those timeshares still sell for thousands on ebay), why expose yourself to the financial risk as maintenance fees growth continues to outpace rental rate growth.  

It surely isnt an investment as it has a negative ROI and that doesnt include possible assessments.


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## DeniseM (Feb 28, 2012)

Pmuppet said:


> Truth is the market price for a week at Westin Hawaii is somwhere in between for the general public.  I suspect it is in the $2,000-$2,500 range for a week in a 2bed/2bath oceanview with minimal amount of research needed to find a property to rent whether it is Tug, Redweek, or another site.



Nope: Christmas - New Years weeks actually will rent for over $4,000. and I have rented my own (non-holiday) week there for $3,500-$3,600 for about 5 years is a row.  In fact it's already been rented for 2012 and 2013 at that price.  

The market for upscale accommodations in Hawaii is still very healthy.  As I said before, the person who rented to you for $1,000 was probably an inexperienced owner that didn't understand their many options.  There is no reason to rent for that price, unless you just don't know what else to do.


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## Pmuppet (Feb 28, 2012)

*Different approach than slip*

I think slip is right that you could find a timeshare for free with one years dues paid for.  We did that about seven years ago when we got a week in fort lauderdale fixed week 52 on ebay.

They covered maintence fees for that year, paid closing costs, and fees.  The trading power with rci was high cause it was a fixed week 52 (36 points via rci for the 1 bed/2 bath unit) with maintenance fees of $585/year.

I wouldnt recommend this approach unless you have research how to get rid of the timeshare if you dont want it anymore.  Often times, you CAN'T.  You may be left with either paying the fees and taking the loss each and every year, defaulting (which not only damages your credit, but opens you to legal liabilities).  

Have a clear and realistic exit strategy before you buy in case you need/want to sell.

I dont personally believe that many (if any) timeshares have any real value as their MF>average rental income, but if you are dead set on buying one, i recommend buying one with perceived value.

But if you buy a timeshare that has perceived value via ebay, you can at least unload it if it becomes necessary.  Not saying you should spend Tens of thousands, but buy something that you are confident can be unloaded in the future.  Here is one i found on ebay.  Definitely agree with other posters though, take your time and get what you want. 

Be picky, it is a buyers market.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Marriotts-C...=Timeshares&hash=item256d180ac1#ht_5311wt_922


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## Beefnot (Feb 28, 2012)

For those who prefer variety of locations to travel, owning in each destination is impractical. So the option is to either rent or buy cheap traders. The latter is my approach.


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## Pmuppet (Feb 28, 2012)

*Interesting info*

Glad to see myself proven wrong, you definitely have weight when it comes to my eyes as the moderator for tug.  As a finance guy, i honestly questioned why anyone would buy a timeshare with MF of $2600 when you rarely get rents to cover that. 

I look forward to hearing more of your insight about timeshares in the future.  I bought a two year tug membership as i want to learn more about the industry.


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## DeniseM (Feb 28, 2012)

Pmuppet - My MF at the original resort is actually $2,180, but yes, it's really high.  We bought this timeshare 10 years ago, from the developer, and we didn't know what we were doing!     When we bought it, the MF was only $1,100 which seemed very reasonable for an ocean view 2 bdm. at the newest resort on Maui.  We could split the lock-off, and go for two weeks for $550 a week. Unfortunately, the MF has doubled in 10 years!     Fortunately, it is an excellent renter.


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## bwfoster15 (Feb 29, 2012)

Ok, so I just secured RENTING a week at a DVC resort for way less than I would have ever thought.  I'm still going to be on the lookout for a timeshare deal, seeing how we LOVE to travel, but I'm glad i thought of this renting thing.  I wish someone would have suggested it to me.


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## Pmuppet (Mar 6, 2012)

*Congratulations OP*

Wanted to say congratulations OP.  You made a wise decision in renting, i suspect.  You deserve kudos in my eyes cause i think you really wanted to buy (and become an owner), but you "let the math decide for you."

The problem most people have when they originally enter this "what if" exercise is they know what they want to do (generally, they are trying to find a reason to justify the purchase), and work the numbers to sell it to themselves cause you can prove anything you want to prove with data.

But if your endpoint is fiscal responsibility, you calculate the true value and what is the better alternative (renting vs buying), it isnt that hard because all the variables are known.  

Congratulations cause you took a step back, reevaluated everything, and decided it was in your best interest to rent at this time.  Takes some guts to change directions like that.  Congrats on making a solid decision in my eyes.

BTW, i didnt "let the numbers set me" and i am paying dearly for it.


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## marinskas (Apr 24, 2012)

Pmuppet said:


> Dont believe me, look at ebay.  People are staying at the Mahatten club in NYC for a week for $1400 (owners pay maintenance fees over $2200), westin in hawaii rent for $1000 or less (owners are paying $2500 a year in dues).



Can you help/direct me where I can find Manhattan Club for a week for $1,400?


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## Beefnot (Apr 24, 2012)

I believe if you are a member of SFX then you can get it for $189 a night.


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## thegortons (Apr 24, 2012)

*Try SFX*

Try this link for the San Francisco Exchange:

http://www.sfx-resorts.com/specials/manhattan-club.asp

They currently have a special for the Manhattan Club starting at $189/night for a minimum 3 night stay.


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## marinskas (Apr 24, 2012)

Thanks to Beefnot and thegortons for quick replies.  I am not a member of SFX - is that a problem for the rate? Is it easy to become one?

Lastly any other ideas for good values on nice properties in NYC in June-July for a week or less? West 57th by HGVC is very nice place - any possibilities good value deals there?


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## Beefnot (Apr 24, 2012)

marinskas said:


> Thanks to Beefnot and thegortons for quick replies.  I am not a member of SFX - is that a problem for the rate? Is it easy to become one?
> 
> Lastly any other ideas for good values on nice properties in NYC in June-July for a week or less? West 57th by HGVC is very nice place - any possibilities good value deals there?



As long as you own a TS, it is easy and free to sign up.


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## marinskas (Apr 25, 2012)

Beefnot said:


> As long as you own a TS, it is easy and free to sign up.



Well the thing is that thanks to this Forum I don't yet. I have attended multiple presentations and was almost convinced to purchase and then found this forum. So my goal is to learn as much as I can and make an informed decision, that is economically sound (even if that means renting timeshares vs purchasing, as I have read a lot about in this forum).

So bottom line I am not currently a timeshare owner - is there a way to get the deal thru SFX? I think I am a member of Diamond Resorts and their logo was on SFX - would that help me any?


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## marinskas (May 11, 2012)

*Any help please?*

I would really appreciate if anyone with knowledge could respond to my earlier question, which is: is there a way to get this deal without owning a timeshare? According to SFX website, it says the following under the Manhattan Club description: "As a special offer to our SFX members and their friends and family, this is virtually requirement free." Based on this they don't seem to be very restrictive if friends of timeshare owners can get this deal. Any advice, please?

Any other ideas for affordable but nice place to stay in Manhattan? Going there next week and then again in June and July.


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## Passepartout (May 11, 2012)

Unless you own a timeshare, there is (as far as I know) no way to join an exchange co. That's how you get to be a 'member'. If this is an offer for 'members' and friends. Perhaps you have to provide the member's number. But I might be wrong. Call them and report back.

Jim


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