# [ 2013 ] How does it make sense?



## AndySamuels (Jan 13, 2014)

How does it make sense?

So I have been considering timeshares for years now. I have been to a number of presentations in Vegas. The past 2 weeks I have tried to make sense of it even more. But the #s just do not add up.

Objective:
Timeshare to use in Atlantic City (AC) and/or Vegas.

Requirements:
2BR. Any season.

#s:
AC and Vegas both have too many hotel rooms so you can easily get connected rooms pretty cheap (<$100 a night).
AC and Vegas both have hotel / casino chains that throw comps around like candy (free / discounted rooms, free play, buffets and so on).
Timeshare ownership (points / rooms) maintenance / membership (& transfer / closing) are pretty expensive: $1000+ a year.

Flexibility:
Timeshares need to be booked very far in advance (many months).
Timeshares have rules around checking in & out days.
Fees to bank points / weeks.
Limited variety in locations.

None of these handicaps apply when it comes to hotels.

Even with $1 offers for timeshares I cannot get the math to work for me. 

Any thoughts? Thanks!


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## Rent_Share (Jan 13, 2014)

Timeshare ownership (elsewhere) gives you access to Las Vegas timeshares from the last minute rental pool

 Short Lead Time
 Often Less than 1 Week Available
 Low Cost

 Very few regulars here recommend purchasing in Las Vegas, Branson or Oralndo


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## ronparise (Jan 13, 2014)

Lets see

Marriott Hotel room in New Orleans  April 25-28.....$379/night = $1137+tax

Wyndham La Belle Maison  timeshare 1 bedroom suite  April 25-28    
98000 points                      98000 points at $5mf per 1000 points= $500

Avenue Plaza Resort one bedroom suite .... mf = $650 
resort allows split week reservations so 3 nights =  $325


And for these event weekends you have to plan in advance, hotel or timeshare.

I didnt figure the purchase price in to my numbers, but feel free to add about $200 a week amortized over whatever timeframe you like

Timeshares make sense to me. not for everyone, and not for every time or place. But for some places and some people sometimes they work very well.


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## jackio (Jan 13, 2014)

I own a timeshare in Las Vegas, but after going a couple of times I found that I got a better deal through the hotels.  If I want to stay for a week, or if my deposits are expiring, I go to a timeshare.  I like to have a couple of rooms to spread out, and if DH comes we like to have 2 bathrooms.  I also like to have the kitchen and the washer/dryer if we are staying more than a few days.  I love to go home with a suitcase full of clean clothes.


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## AndySamuels (Jan 13, 2014)

Thanks guys!


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## chriskre (Jan 13, 2014)

If you just like to vacation gambling then timeshares may not be for you.
Why bother if you can get comped a room for being a frequent gambler.
Now if you were vacationing anywhere else other than casino hotels then I'd say pursue it.  

There are some timeshares that offer bonus time for owners at those specific resorts.  Bonus time is discounted stays available for cash on short notice.  Hilton Grand Vacation Club and Bluegreen are two systems that have this perk for their members.  The discounts can be quite attractive especially if you want 2 bedrooms as opposed to just joining hotel rooms.

If you are just comparing studios to hotel rooms then the math won't work out for you.  Once you travel in timeshare style it's very difficult to go back to hotel rooms.  Since you are used to hotel rooms you don't know what you've been missing.


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## AndySamuels (Jan 14, 2014)

Thanks. You are probably right in that TS travel is a very unique experience. In Vegas I usually stay at the Rio which has very large rooms (600ft).

I guess the self catering part would be fun. Personally I always eat out. I am not big on shopping, preparing, cooking, eating and then washing dishes. 

I typically end up going to AC because it is not too far from NYC and Vegas because I have in-laws there. That basically eats up all my vacation days.


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## chriskre (Jan 14, 2014)

AndySamuels said:


> Thanks. You are probably right in that TS travel is a very unique experience. In Vegas I usually stay at the Rio which has very large rooms (600ft).
> 
> I guess the self catering part would be fun. Personally I always eat out. I am not big on shopping, preparing, cooking, eating and then washing dishes.
> 
> I typically end up going to AC because it is not too far from NYC and Vegas because I have in-laws there. That basically eats up all my vacation days.



I've never stayed at the Rio but can tell you that I recently stayed a week at the Marriott Grande Chateau in a 3 bedroom, 3 bath unit with two kitchens and two washer/dryers and living rooms and paid less than you may have paid for 3 nights at the Rio.  That's the beauty of timeshares and why we all hang out here all day and night.  :hysterical:

I don't cook either but do like to have the snacks and drinks in our living room before we go out or come home at night.   Having the living room is a great benefit when sharing the room with friends.  Everybody has their own personal space yet you can stay up drinking and socializing all night if you choose and not have to worry about driving DUI.  

And eating breakfast in the room is priceless to me.   I'm no good til I get a pot of coffee and some carbs going in the morning.   You can easily spend $10-$15 on breakfast eating out every day and half the time I'd miss the service anyway cause we may not get out til 11am if we've been up all night.


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## AndySamuels (Jan 14, 2014)

Impressive. I am very curious how much you really pay per night when you have a 3BR/3BR setup. When you add up your MFs / memberships / reservations (& assessments amortized): how much is that per night you think? I exclude original purchase cost of your points / ownership @ Marriott (amortized/financed) on the assumption that you picked up the ownership / points for free / very little. 

This is where my math for TS' usually comes up short every time because per night it is is really very expensive when you factor in all expenses and then divide by the # of nights. Especially for 2BR/2BR and up. With my job I am also not able to plan these things out more than 3 or 4 months really. That is another thing that has me worried about TS'.


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## chriskre (Jan 14, 2014)

AndySamuels said:


> Impressive. I am very curious how much you really pay per night when you have a 3BR/3BR setup. When you add up your MFs / memberships / reservations (& assessments amortized): how much is that per night you think? I exclude original purchase cost of your points / ownership @ Marriott (amortized/financed) on the assumption that you picked up the ownership / points for free / very little.
> 
> This is where my math for TS' usually comes up short every time because per night it is is really very expensive when you factor in all expenses and then divide by the # of nights. Especially for 2BR/2BR and up. With my job I am also not able to plan these things out more than 3 or 4 months really. That is another thing that has me worried about TS'.



Sent you a PM with the breakdown.  
Don't want to post it out here.  
Loose lips sink ships.  

And just an FYI, I got this unit on Flexchange so it was booked within 60 days of check in so it was a last minute deposit by Marriott to II for a holiday week.


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## presley (Jan 14, 2014)

AndySamuels said:


> Thanks. You are probably right in that TS travel is a very unique experience. In Vegas I usually stay at the Rio which has very large rooms (600ft).



Are those rooms one large room?  Or, do they have 2 rooms?  600 square feet is very large.  I've staying in timeshare units smaller than that.  Just wondering what they have.  Just more room?  Or, is there a small fridge and microwave?


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## AndySamuels (Jan 14, 2014)

Those are typically 1 room. They have a TV area with a couch / chairs and a desk section. Plus 2 queens or 1 king. When we get 2+ rooms we typically get adjoining rooms. There are also some restaurants in the hotel, huge pools and a lot of gaming square footage. They used to have an overhead carnival show but they canned that last year.

Not the most luxurious or most conveniently located hotel in Vegas but good value for $ from my experience. Also very generous with comps. Gold Coast and Palms are walking distance.

http://www.tripadvisor.com/Hotel_Re..._All_Suite_Hotel_Casino-Las_Vegas_Nevada.html

The only really bad thing is that they started charging "service fees" last year. That adds $20 to each night. But it takes away charges for WIFI and some other stuff.


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## lizap (Jan 16, 2014)

I'll make a few general comments:

To get the most from TSs, you have to be able to make the system work for you.  If you can be flexible and book your trips way in advance, you can save a great deal of $ using TSs, while having superior accomodations.  Each system is different, and therefore you must learn the system and make it work for you.  If you are going to primarily use TSs in a location that is overbuilt and cannot book many months in advance, then it maynot be right for you..


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## vacationhopeful (Jan 16, 2014)

*Lots more casinos these days ---*

Poconos - Mt Airy Lodge Casino -- sister like that one - just a short ride from Wyndham Shawnee Resort

Ft Lauderdale - Hard Rock Casino - just a short ride from Wyndham's Royal Vista, Santa Barbara, Sea Gardens or Palm Aire.

Atlantic City - short walk to Resorts + all the other casinos - Wyndham Skyline Tower Resort - jinity ride to the bay area casinos.

Las Vegas - has multiple TS in the city.


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## AndySamuels (Jan 16, 2014)

Thanks everyone! 

I did some calculations (and thought I had saved them somewhere here already).

Week 14							
5 nights	Su	Mo	Tu	We	Th	TOTAL	
Skyline 2BR	 28,000 	 28,000 	 28,000 	 28,000 	 28,000 	 140,000    $780 (points * 0.0056 per point)
Skyline 2BR Pres	 36,000 	 36,000 	 36,000 	 36,000 	 36,000 	 180,000    $1000 (points * 0.0056 per point)
Borgata	216	216	216	216	216	1080	
Borgata - comped	0	0	118	118	118	354	

Week 52							
5 nights	Su	Mo	Tu	We	Th	TOTAL	
Skyline 2BR	21,500	21,500	21,500	21,500	21,500	 107,500 	$600 (points * 0.0056 per point)
Skyline 2BR Pres	22,600	22,600	22,600	22,600	22,600	 113,000 	$630 (points * 0.0056 per point)
Borgata	216	216	216	216	216	1080	
Borgata - comped	0	0	118	118	118	354	

						WYNDHAM	
						 247,500 	2BR
						 305,000 	ANNUAL
						 57,500 	Balance
						85	Night Average (per night)
						WYNDHAM	
						 293,000 	2BR Pres
						 305,000 	ANNUAL
						 12,000 	Balance
						85	Night Average (per night)

						BORGATA	
						108	Night Average (per night), not comped
						35.4	Night Average (per night), comped

						EXCLUDES:	Initial $2.3K purchase of 305K points.

Wyndham 305K comes with $1.7K MFs + other fees annually. So base = $1.7K / 305K points = $0.0056 per point. Excludes points acquisition cost. And the balance cost should really be added as well: or rolled over (at cost).

Anyway: it still is hard to make the numbers work. For Vegas the rates are even cheaper. Rio: $115 (comped) for 5 nights (1 room) or $50 average (1 room) (not comped).  Grand Desert: 24K * 5 = 120K * 0.0056 = $670. Obviously TS' are not going to work here.


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## DaveNV (Jan 16, 2014)

Timeshares provide a more comfortable stay if you can plan ahead, to maximize your experience.  For last minute scheduling, you tend to take what you can get from among what's left.  

With a hotel, you generally have fewer amenities, smaller rooms, no laundry or full kitchen, but you get more flexibility to book at the last minute.  You may be able to shop around, and get a lower rate, plus you can easily book one night someplace. So each has their reasons for being a good choice, depending on circustances.

For me, just financially, and based on the way I travel, it works to my advantage to have a timeshare.  Using my oceanfront unit in Kauai as an example, a place I enjoy staying for a week every two years, the money works out like this:

Amortized purchased price, (~$500 including closing costs, / seven nights per stay, / seven years of ownership so far, = ~$10 per night in the unit. This will go down the longer I own it.)  Maintenance fee is roughly $170 per night in the unit. No other fees involved, no exchange or other costs, because I'm using the unit I own in my home resort.

So I pay $180 per night, in a directly oceanfront apartment-sized unit, sleeps four, with private bedroom, full kitchen, washer/dryer, and two bathrooms, in roughly 900 square feet.

Contrast that with the Aqua Hotel right next door (formerly part of the same complex.)

$409 per night, in a 1 bedroom oceanfront hotel room, sleeps 2, in 650 square feet. This is the closest comparable unit between the two places.

To stay a week in my timeshare: $1260.

To stay a week at the hotel:  $2863.

----

The other advantage for me, is knowing exactly what I'm getting for my vacation dollar.  Staying in my home resort, in the unit I request each time, makes it like "coming home" when I check in.  They greet me like an old friend, make me feel like I'm part of their extended family, and when I open the door to "my" unit, I know exactly what to expect.  I can tell what improvements have been made since I was last there, and it feels very much like I own a vacation home.  I really, _REALLY _like that.  I have never once felt like that at any hotel.  

Dave


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## Ridewithme38 (Jan 16, 2014)

I can't figure out your numbers(it looks to me like you are comparing hotel rooms to 2brs timeshares, i'd be interested in how to get TWO hotel rooms in the Borgada for $118 per night)...Here are mine

My Timeshares MF is about $800, i paid $1 for it, it gets me about 40 TPU's in RCI(actually more, but 40 makes the math Easy) so i pay $20 per TPU.....RCI costs $89 a year.  

Wyndham Skyline tower is available 2/7-2/14/2014 for 6 TPUs
RCI Membership $89
Skyline TPUs $120
Exchange fee $209

Total cost $418 or $59.72 a night.

Grandview is Available 2/7-2/14/2014 for 6 TPUs
RCI Membership $89
Grandview TPUs $120
Exchnage fee $209

Total cost $418 or $59.72 per night.

Both, while 1br places are MUCH more then just a barebones hotel room, like you've been comparing pricewise.


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## AndySamuels (Jan 16, 2014)

In high value locations / weeks TS' make perfect sense. For AC / Vegas I am not convinced.

Borgata @ $59 per room per night: players club.

Borgata is top of the line: not barebones. Harrah's is barebones.

I have to admit the TPUs look good. But finding that many for $1 is not easy.


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## Ridewithme38 (Jan 16, 2014)

AndySamuels said:


> In high value locations / weeks TS' make perfect sense. For AC / Vegas I am not convinced.
> 
> Borgata @ $59 per room per night: players club.
> 
> ...



Standard rooms on the Borgata website are TOTAL COST $1189.02, or about $169.86 a night

$20 per TPU is the high end, hell i'll give you mine, you don't even need the $1.  On this board the recommendation, if buying a TS for exchanging through RCI, is $10-$15 per TPU, which are pretty easy to find, i'd own one already, but i'd have to get rid of my $20 per TPU resort first!

What i meant by barebones is....No full kitchen, no washer/dryers, no 2nd bathroom....No walls between the beds....To me that's barebones, i enjoy making bacon/eggs/sausage/etc., for breakfast Pasta dishes for dinner and i snore...so unless there is a wall and door between me and the other bed/person sleeping, they won't be able to sleep.


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## AndySamuels (Jan 16, 2014)

Cool! How would I recognize the TPU value of an offering?

I do not cook / do laundry so those are good amenities but not of value to me personally. 

Daily housekeeping / new towels is nice as well.

With adjoining rooms there are also 2 bathrooms with a hotel room.


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## Ridewithme38 (Jan 16, 2014)

AndySamuels said:


> I do not cook / do laundry so those are good amenities but not of value to me personally.



Why do you want a timeshare? Do you travel with large groups?


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## AndySamuels (Jan 16, 2014)

Looking for a deal. I travel with friends and/or my family.


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## Ridewithme38 (Jan 16, 2014)

AndySamuels said:


> Looking for a deal. I travel with friends and/or my family.



Do your friends and/or family typically pay for their own rooms or do you pay?

It's an interesting question, most people i know who are looking timeshares like the idea of being able to save money by preparing their own meals, or like being able to bring small carry on baggage with them while travelling because of the washer or dryer, or have a wife and a couple kids and need the extra private rooms....I own for a couple reasons, 1.  I like to save money by preparing simple meals myself.  2. I'm a single father of a daughter, she will very soon, need her own 'private space' on trips and not want to share a one room hotel room with daddy.

If you are happy in a single Hotel room, i'm not sure if i'd really recommend you move to the life long obligation of timeshare ownership, sure you may save a few bucks, but over the long run, it's another thing to complicate your life that you may not need.


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## AndySamuels (Jan 16, 2014)

Good points. My wife may like having a kitchen / laundry facilities. My MIL usually comes along as well. They usually babysit and I go play, swim, go to the comedy club and so on.

TS' are very complicated. With a lot of people the cost of flying becomes prohibitive so driving range is important. Hence AC. My inlaws have a vacation house in the Poconos so that is another scenario. I just think the Poconos are boring but that may change once my sons are older.


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## presley (Jan 16, 2014)

AndySamuels said:


> Good points. My wife may like having a kitchen / laundry facilities.



Sometimes like and need aren't exactly the same thing.  I use timeshares for the reasons Ridewithme suggested.  I like to pack less if I know I can do a load of laundry while there.  I have to have a kitchen.  There are so many dietary restrictions in my family at this point that eating out is extremely difficult and waaaaay more stressful than it should be.

So, I don't like doing laundry, but I will do it in order to have less bags.  I don't like to spend my vacation cooking and doing dishes, but that is the lessor of the 2 evils when trying to eat out with my travel party.  

I'd stick with a nice hotel room for as long as possible.  You could always rent a timeshare if you want to try that extra space.  You won't have daily housekeeping unless you pay extra for it.  I do my own trash when staying in Marriott and Hilton timeshares.


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## lizap (Jan 16, 2014)

At least wo things make me question the appropriateness of TSs for you:  1.) Vegas and 2.) you don't typically arrange your trips that far in advance.  Is it possible that you may want to visit other places at some point?  If so (e.g., Hawaii, Carribean), then TSs may make more sense for you.


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## AndySamuels (Jan 16, 2014)

All very valid points.

Travel with 5+ people with airfare, a rental car and so on get's really expensive really fast. Especially in this economy. It is hard to make long term plans with so many challenges. Irene & Sandy for example: thousands down the drain.


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## ronparise (Jan 16, 2014)

AndySamuels said:


> In high value locations / weeks TS' make perfect sense. For AC / Vegas I am not convinced.
> 
> Borgata @ $59 per room per night: players club.
> 
> ...



I've been to Vegas once in my 67 years so I have no need to ever go back So I can't be persuaded by your Vegas numbers. Do a similar calculation for San Francisco or Seattle or San Antonio or San Diego or Vancouver or Chicago or New York or Washington, D.C. or Waikiki or Myrtle beach or Miami or Marco island or Sanibel  island or Destin


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## AndySamuels (Jan 16, 2014)

You are 100% on point. Unfortunately I am not that interested in those locations. And I already live in the NYC suburbs.  DC suburbs' hotel rooms are usually pretty cheap. Including Hampton Suites.


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## Ridewithme38 (Jan 16, 2014)

AndySamuels said:


> You are 100% on point. Unfortunately I am not that interested in those locations. And I already live in the NYC suburbs.



I'm from Long Island, not Massapequa, but that area...it is true that the only timeshares within driving distance worth visiting are in Atlantic City....BUT, maybe you might want to overlook that advice and think about purchasing just to exchange into those areas instead of looking to purchase in atlantic city.

I had big hopes of buying in the pocono's when i was just starting to look into timeshares.....it's close, i went there when i was young(friends own a 'cabin'), so i knew what was available to do in the area...But after doing so research i realized all the timeshares in the pocono's suck! so i bought a timeshare in Williamsburg that i only use to trade and a every other year timeshare in Myrtle beach that i fly down to.

So far, because of my williamsburg timeshare, i've stayed in williamsburg, Hershey, Vermont, the Poconos, Massanutten, Va and other places i can't remember right now...and i've only owned a few years.


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## AndySamuels (Jan 16, 2014)

Excellent suggestion. I live on LI as well. I will have to discuss or future vacation plans with my wife and MIL.


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## Sandy VDH (Jan 16, 2014)

Not that this will help you on resale as VIP is non-tranferable, but with wyndham I have vip perks and get units at 50% and get free upgrades. I also have HGVC, and I occasionally use comps if it fits my purpose. 

Last 4 stays in Vegas.

1 week, 10 TPU booked Wydham Grand Desert via RCI, about $350
2 days, booked 1 BR via Wyndham GD got upgraded to 3 BR Penthouse $70 total
3 days, got comped at both Hard Rock and Green Valley Ranch.  $0
1 week, my friend took for her and her mom at the Flamingo.  2400 HGVC, about $450


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## AndySamuels (Jan 17, 2014)

Cool! We used to go to Vegas twice a year. But with ticket prices so high from LGA/JFK now and kids it is really tough.  Buying a Wyndham VIP TS must have been a pretty penny BTW.


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## SJS (Jan 17, 2014)

*It can make sense*

I doubt that one can get a hotel suite with 3 bedrooms, 2 baths, full kitchen, living room and dining room for $100 a night. We've had our timeshare (two separate weeks) at Whistler BC for 22 years. We rented our Christmas week four out of every five years and that paid our mortgage and maintenance fees. We use at Whistler or exchange our summer week. We use an RCI credit card that gives enough dollar points that it pays for our RCI membership and all exchange fees. We vacation with extended family, and there is absolutely nowhere that 5-6 people could stay for a week for our maintenance fee of $903/ year. Two of our memorable exchanges were two 1500 era manors in England (normally over 500 pounds/night) and another in Wales. There are a couple caveats: buy prime weeks in a prime location, buy only fee simple title (not points), know the laws in your timeshare area that protect YOU, not the management company, and be an active member of your timeshare homeowners' association so you can catch and nip in the bud bad management.


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## adkferrets (Jan 17, 2014)

*I don't think the math is there for the timeshares...*

One more approach to the analysis - 

I see the 'rent' the hotel vs 'buy' the timeshare discussion all thru here.

But you can rent the the timeshare too, without the expense and commitment of owning.

I own in Orlando (I know it's unique, in the wrong way, but the logic applies).  As an owner, we pay $1,000/mo or more in annual fees.  Add to that the yearly amortization of the purchase - say $500.  Compare the $1,500 to what it costs to rent the timeshare on the market. At my resort, for the ownership weeks I own, I see $800-900 on the market.  Even directly thru the Marriott website, the cost can be $1,400 or lower.

I tested a few other locations, and the logic holds that it's cheaper to rent the timeshare than buy - timeshares are really nice, lots of space, but you don't have to make the ownership commitment to use them, BUT it's generally cheaper not to buy.

btw, selling my timeshare and finding the price is 1/3 what I paid, and Marriott is keeping 40% for the selling fee.  It's selling for about 1/4 what Marriot prices the equivalent "points" for the week we have - that point game is another set of math that further reinforces that you really don't want to buy a timeshare - just use them


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## boatnut (Jan 17, 2014)

*Great advise from SJS*

We also own two prime weeks in Whistler. Never even seen the units. No desire to. We use them strictly to trade within Raintree and have option of RCI. 
  Bought them for pennies on the dollar "used". THANK YOU TUG.....
(Like less than 5 pennies on the dollar)  
Annual MF's are $1780 total for both. Gives us 320,000 points year.  
Normal "hotel room" with kitchen in high season in Mexico, southern USA, hawaii etc etc is 30,000 points.= $178 a WEEK. 
No booking or exchange fees. To put it another way, I can head south for two and a half months in the winter, stay in five star? hotel, full maid service for $1,780. 
 I can upgrade to a two bedroom, jacuzzi, two full bathroom , full kitchen etc etc room by "paying" 50,000pts a week. =$300 a week. 
 If RCI and Raintree close their doors I'll be "stuck" with two deeded two bedroom plus den ski weeks in Whistler to rent. Not seeing much potential exposure here as they rent for $300+ a night x two rooms x seven = $4,200. I could rent them for less than 50% of regular rate ( Rack rate is substantially more ) and still make a few dollars. 
 Time share? Might just be one of the best things I've ever done.


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## AndySamuels (Jan 18, 2014)

All excellent scenarios. For our current and near future travel plans prime weeks and exotic locations do not make a lot of sense. 

For now we will rent.


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## ronparise (Jan 18, 2014)

AndySamuels said:


> You are 100% on point. Unfortunately I am not that interested in those locations. And I already live in the NYC suburbs.  DC suburbs' hotel rooms are usually pretty cheap. Including Hampton Suites.



If your only interest is Las Vegas and Atlantic City and if you dont have a need for a 2 or 3 bedroom suite, and you spend enough time (and money) in the casinos to be comped: timeshare are certainly not for you. 

Rent Shares Post (#2) however gave you the answer to your question...how does it make sense?  Using the Last Call reservations in RCI you can get a week for under $50 a night.  

From where I sit, even that doesnt make sense ... You would have to pay me to go back to Vegas... (Did you know that place is in a desert?)


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## AndySamuels (Jan 18, 2014)

I love Vegas for the 24/7 catering, the shows, the casinos, the pool(s) (parties), the nightlife, the shopping, the attractions, the gun fun and good value all around. 

AC is a mini Vegas within driving distance.

I am not big on beach vacations: I find it very difficult to not have something to do.

Also: a week is too long to vacation for me anyway.


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## Smokatoke (Jan 19, 2014)

I am a vegas nut and go 3-4 times a year. Even going there that often, timesharing isnt worth it, and you can often find hotel deals cheaper.

I own Vegas timeshare but thats because of the low MF to point ratio, and i use those points normally for non-vegas trips. The exchange fees alone would almost price you out of Vegas compared to hotels unless you were booking very highend like Elara or Flamingo.

As Ron mentioned you cant use Vegas as the basis for determining if timesharing is worth it because of the cheap cost and volume of hotels there. Look at NYC, Hawaii or any Disney property and you will see timesharing saves you crazy money.

But use Vegas as an example, Elara 2bed suite is 699 a night on Priceline. I will pay that for the entire week after point cost and exchange fees.


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## csalter2 (Jan 21, 2014)

*I guess it's not for him.*

Based upon the OP's comments, timesharing is not for him. First, he doesn't like to travel. Secondly, as everyone has stated, he's only looking at Las Vegas and Atlantic City. Thirdly, he says he can't plan in advance. These three things alone make him a candidate for hotels. I don't know if I would want my mother in law in the same room with me on vacation. I would like to have my own bedroom with my wife and she can have her own bedroom. However, different strokes for different folks. 

I don't think he really was interested in a timeshare in the first place other than to save a few bucks. However, he can't if he doesn't vacation. He states that 7 days is too long for him. Well, most of us on TUG often put 7 days as a bare minimum. We LOVE vacationing and many of us are not retired yet. I will be doing a month in Hawaii, and for me to stay in the same accommodations would cost me in excess of $14,000. I got these from booking.com and hotels.com and they are renting out my timeshare to the public. I pay about $5000 in MF's and I can still stay more time after that month in Hawaii.  It is also important to note that I will be staying in two bedrooms. Those rentals are all based on studios. 

I read the posts and no one mentioned how you could use a lockoff and get more than one week. I can use my Marriott 2 bedroom and get two weeks from that alone. I could also decide to rent the studio side for maintenance fees and use the one bedroom side if I wanted to be there. 

They key to timeshare ownership as one poster already stated is knowing how to make your timeshare system work for you.  That is why many of us like TUG. We learn a lot from one another to make our systems work as much as possible to our advantage.  Many of us get great deals.  How about those Accommodation Certificates that get you a week at low cost? I have used those on more than one occasion, or even a getaway.  To save money one must be a planner and traveler who understands their timeshare system. Anything short of that and you won't get the maximum.


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## VegasBella (Jan 21, 2014)

Yeah, sounds like timeshares don't make sense for the OP, at least not the ones he's looking at buying.

The reason they make sense for my family are these:
- We vacation to the beach during Summer. Preplanning with timeshares (rent or buy) is MUCH cheaper.
- Having a kitchen makes meals easier. I hate dining out for every single meal. HATE IT. I feel like I'm wasting time. I feel like I have fewer choices. I feel unhealthy. Etc.
- Kids: it's just easier to have a kitchen and laundry when you have kids. Less stressful when you can just wash the vomit-covered or peed-on clothing right away (KWIM?)
- We're at a point in our lives where we actually need to preplan our vacations. That's because our kiddo is in school now. Previously we lived lives of leisure and could vacation whenever we wanted. But now we need to stick to a schedule.

All that said, there are some huge downsides to timeshares. For those reasons, I think the basic TUG advice to wait and research, research, research is sound advice.


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## AndySamuels (Jan 21, 2014)

Thank you all for excellent feedback. 

BTW: we do not have my MIL stay in the same room. When we travel as the nuclear family we get 2 BRs. When my MIL joins in AC us we have 3 BRs. When she joins us in Vegas she stays with my BIL. :whoopie:

Based on the MFs, membership, location (AC/Vegas), the need to plan very far in advance, relatively short stay and no need for laundry / kitchen, TS' are not for us at this point in time. 

They may very well be an excellent choice in the future when the parameters above change.


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## twinmommy19 (Jan 21, 2014)

Vegas is one of the few places where I probably wouldn't look to stay in a timeshare over a hotel.  The hotel units on the Vegas strip are huge - lots of suites - and often you can get very reasonable prices.  It's also not the kind of place where I would look to go for a 7 nights +.  In the past, when we've gone to Vegas it has been for a long weekend or an extension of another trip (to Arizona for example).  We don't golf though, so maybe that makes a difference.  For us, 3-4 nights in Vegas at a time is more than enough.  When we go there, part of the draw is the big breakfast buffets, the awesome pools at the strip hotels and we like going out to dinner on that kind of trip.  I don't feel that a kitchen would be necessary.  Even though there are activities for kids, I just don't see Vegas as my pick to bring a family with young children and if I did, I would choose to stay in one of the strip hotels with a fun water playground (like Mandalay Bay) over staying at a hotel like the Marriott.  As nice as I'm sure the Marriott 3BR units probably are, the pool area doesn't look that great so it simply wouldn't be my choice location for a family.  

In the heart of Atlantic City, none of the timeshares compare to The Borgata or The Revel (I'm not including the Marriott Fairway Villas as it is a good 20 minute drive from AC - we like MFV a lot but it is a different kind of trip).


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## SandyJ (Jan 21, 2014)

AndySamuels said:


> Thank you all for excellent feedback.
> 
> BTW: we do not have my MIL stay in the same room. When we travel as the nuclear family we get 2 BRs. When my MIL joins in AC us we have 3 BRs. When she joins us in Vegas she stays with my BIL. :whoopie:
> 
> ...



Bottom line, I would agree.  If you are a heavy enough gambler that you frequently get comped stuff, then that's the way you should play.  (no pun intended!) 

I think ultimately we all want the best bang for our buck, some use credit card loyalty points, some use hotel and airlinr loyalty clubs, some use TS, but it's all the same goal in the end. The best value for your hard earned money.

At this time, it sounds like hotels with your comps are your best value.

Cheers!


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## planzfortomorrow (Jan 22, 2014)

*Things may change*

The only thing is that "free" isn't free.  There was a time Vegas used to substidize airfare, but I don't think that's the case any more. And when the food used to be super cheap.  THey got enough tourists that they didnt need to do that.  And the hotels may stop comping rooms at some point, and/or you might not gamble enough for them to offer it.  Casinos have to make a profit (like any business).  Don't get me wrong, I don't think you should buy in Vegas for all the above reasons, but eventually things might change.


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## AndySamuels (Jan 23, 2014)

You are right. businesses in Vegas operate like any other businesses. In the depth of the Great Recession their offers were better than they are now. However: comps will not go away. And free airfares are still offered to higher player club tiers. Also: there are so many hotel rooms in Vegas that comped rooms (free or cheap) make perfect sense to casinos. Especially during non convention weeks and slower periods during the year. 

There are also many casinos so there is a lot of competition between them. And on strip old joints / off strip / down town joints have to throw more comps out there to compete with "on strip" and modern properties. 

I do not believe comps will go anywhere. But you are right in that the value of comps will fluctuate on supply and demand as well as competition in the casino marketspace. :whoopie:

The same applies not to just casinos in Vegas but also to attractions, hotels without gaming and restaurants / bars.

AC is even more under pressure from this perspective than Vegas as local casinos in the surrounding states are chipping away at the demand side.

Vegas: convention weeks / (Holiday) weekends: top dollar. Slow weeks / high summer & Thanksgiving / Christmas: (dirt) cheap.
AC: summer months: / (Holiday) weekends: top dollar. During the week / fall, winter & Thanksgiving / Christmas: (dirt) cheap.

Obviously the one downside of Vegas (and other travel) is that with the airlines big 3 oligarchy (Delta, United, American) and tiny competitors (Southwest, JetBlue and so on) the cost of flying has increased between 40% to 100% unfortunately.


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## am1 (Jan 24, 2014)

The 3 and 4 bedroom presidential units at Wyndham Skyline Tower in Atlantic City can be rented at very reasonable prices every weekend of the year.  Check ebay to see for yourself.  
I would not buy if AC/Vegas are where you like to go.


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## AndySamuels (Jan 24, 2014)

Indeed. Thanks for the tip! 

http://www.ebay.com/sch/Lodging-/16123/i.html?_from=R40&_nkw="Skyline+Tower"&_sop=15


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## VegasBella (Jan 24, 2014)

There are a few timeshare weeks that could make financial sense for Vegas. New Years Eve in a unit on the Strip with a Strip view is likely to have value. That's the most desirable week and location of the year.

But many people find that owning a Vegas timeshare does make sense for their travel lifestyle - they tend to use bonus weeks and exchanges to get the most value.

Personally, I wouldn't own in Vegas at the moment though because I'm not interested in exchanging (yet). I own at older resorts with old fashioned timeshare policies. One of the main reasons I wanted to own a timeshare is because I wanted consistency in my Summer vacations. I want the experience of a vacation home without the financial and environmental costs. I have good memories of a vacation home in my childhood. So when my family put that home up for sale I started shopping for a timeshare.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## eschjw (Jan 24, 2014)

I own a Vegas timeshare and usually book New Years week about a year in advance or I book out of my season in the fall 45 days in advance. I get a free exchange with DAE when I don't use it. There is a large demand for the Vegas even though some people say it is "overbuilt". We like to go to the shows, sight see and gamble a little bit.

However, we do try to spend a night at one of the casinos while we are there if it is free. We are small time gamblers and stop on any day we are losing at $100. On our last trip in 2010 we stayed one night at the RIO because I found a single night comp strip view room available. We left our timeshare late and did not get to the Rio until about 9PM. At check in we were told the room was not available, but they upgraded up to a larger corner suite. When we approached the room, my wife exclaimed "it has a doorbell. This is a good sign." It was indeed!!


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## AndySamuels (Jan 30, 2014)

Cool. I have given up on TS'.


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## Binspira (Jun 12, 2017)

"Annual MF's are $1780 total for both. Gives us 320,000 points year."

How are you getting 320000 points for $1,800 mf?  I am planning on buying  a Raintree for no money and getting 130,000 points for $1,800 mf.. yours sounds way better and deeded.. please advise... thanks

Binspira


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## DeniseM (Jun 12, 2017)

Please note that this thread is 4 years old, so it is likely to be out of date.  

Also, points values cannot be compared from one system to the next - every system is different - the points do not transfer between systems.


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## Binspira (Jun 12, 2017)

DeniseM said:


> Points values cannot be compared from one system to the next - every system is different - the points do not transfer between systems.



Do points transfer equally to RCI? With Raintree, I know they do, yet it seems like it may vary based on the different company. That was the common denominator that I was trying to figure out.

Ok - makes sense that points will be different with different companies. Would be great if someone could figure out the relative value of points.


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## DeniseM (Jun 12, 2017)

Points do not transfer equally to RCI from different systems - many systems don't use points at all - you deposit a week, and RCI assigns the TPU (trading power units)/points.

There is really no way to compare the value of points between systems, because they are not interchangeable, some systems don't have points, and there are too many variables.


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