# From Hawaii, just bought HGVC, Good Deal?



## Kmakani (Jun 21, 2009)

Aloha!

My husband and I just bought into HGVC through Hilton. I'm nervous now reading some of the threads. We bought 7500 EOY plus 7000 bonus points for $11,000 in King's Land. Did we make a mistake? I did ask about resale, and the rep said something about not being able to add on to the purchase in the future or something along those lines. What are the differences in resale vs from Hilton? We are really excited, since we can use the Open season quite a bit living here on Oahu. Thank you for your help!


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## Sandy VDH (Jun 21, 2009)

Rescind and by resale.  The only thing you can't get via resale is elite status.  Everything else is the same EXCEPT the price and Elite status.  You paid about double the price for what you paid for.   Omit the bonus point in your consideration as that is really just the value of 1 years MFs.  

7000 Every year resale is in the 12K range or slightly less.
5000 Every year resale is int he 6K range.

Why the difference Gold vs Platinum season.  Those 2 points are the same MFs, but Platinum gets 2000 more points per year than the Gold level does but pays the same MF.

7500 EOY will not even get you a full week in 1 BR Platinum season at Kings' Land.  Not sure if iyou will find Kings' Land resales, but there are lots of other HGVC resales out there.


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## Kmakani (Jun 21, 2009)

the MF are $1045 EOY, we bought 2bd gold. Still return?


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## ricoba (Jun 21, 2009)

Give yourself time to think about it.  Rescind for now and then join TUG and ask questions and learn.  Then decide if you want to buy from HGVC or want to buy resale.  At least then you can make an informed versus an emotional decision.

HGVC is a great program, but it's cheaper to buy resale and for now they don't penalize resale buyers too much.  

So rescind and give yourself time to learn. 

Welcome to TUG, this is a great place to learn about the wonderful world of timesharing.


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## Kmakani (Jun 21, 2009)

Ok, just spoke with Seth about resales. Now how do I go about rescinding? Call them, sign something?


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## Sandy VDH (Jun 21, 2009)

Kmakani said:


> Ok, just spoke with Seth about resales. Now how do I go about rescinding? Call them, sign something?



There should be something in your package you received about the exact thing you have to do.  Follow the instructions to the letter.  You have a time limit, so look through your paper work ASAP.


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## Sandy VDH (Jun 21, 2009)

Kmakani said:


> the MF are $1045 EOY, we bought 2bd gold. Still return?



For Kings' Land a 2BR+ Gold is 8,700 points per year and 2 BR Premium is 10,500 points per year.  So I do not know what you purchased but it would appear to be less than a 2 BR gold for a full week.

So your bonus points are worth about $1045 because they are 1 year's worth of points.


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## vacationhopeful (Jun 21, 2009)

Don't talk to the sale weasals!  They will try to stall you "We need to look up the number", "the girl will be in on Monday, call then" "the manager needs to meet with you"....

NO - the truth is a simple U.S Postal Service CERTIFIED MAIL LETTER with RETURNED RECEIPT stating "WE, MARY SMITH and JOHN SMITH, rescind our purchase of  XXXX for $YYYY and ZZZZ date (Contract #WWWW).  Refund our down payment of $AAA to our credit card immediately as we have disputed said payment with our credit card company.  DO NOT CALL US; WE will NOT take your call and will consider that to be harressment".  You will both need to sign and print your names underneath.  Keep a copy or two for yourselves.  Send a copy also Regular Mail.  

Faxing, dropping a note off, FedEx, leaving a phone message, going to the office to sign a release, meeting with a sales manager ==> Nope.  Legal is actually less hassle and definitely with legal proof.

As for the address, look over the documents/contract you got a copy of:  it will be buried in there somewheres.  This paragraph may also state you will be charged for the "free" food you ate and any books you were given, unless returned to them.


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## Kmakani (Jun 21, 2009)

Found the cancellation notice (by midnight tomorrow). Faxed it over now. WHEW! I'll fax and call tomorrow as well to make sure this is definitely done. Seth sounded like he knows his timeshare info. Has anyone else worked with him?


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## Kmakani (Jun 21, 2009)

Thank you for the heads up. Luckily we live here and I'll be sending every form of "we are done" to them tomorrow as well.


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## Blues (Jun 21, 2009)

Kmakani said:


> Found the cancellation notice (by midnight tomorrow). Faxed it over now. WHEW! I'll fax and call tomorrow as well to make sure this is definitely done. Seth sounded like he knows his timeshare info. Has anyone else worked with him?



Look carefully at the recission clause of your contract.  Most of them specify that you must send by US Mail.  If that's what it says, faxing it over won't qualify.  You *must* follow the instructions in the contract exactly.

-Bob


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## Sandy VDH (Jun 21, 2009)

Kmakani said:


> Found the cancellation notice (by midnight tomorrow). Faxed it over now. WHEW! I'll fax and call tomorrow as well to make sure this is definitely done. Seth sounded like he knows his timeshare info. Has anyone else worked with him?




Follow the instructions to the letter.  If it says register mail then do it.  Don't assume a fax will work.

I have not worked with Seth personally but others here will likely chime in.  He is in the know and is very reputable.  Judy K is another reputable reseller that posts here and has ads for sale.


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## Sandy VDH (Jun 21, 2009)

Blues said:


> Look carefully at the recission clause of your contract.  Most of them specify that you must send by US Mail.  If that's what it says, faxing it over won't qualify.  You *must* follow the instructions in the contract exactly.
> 
> -Bob



You bet me to the post.


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## vacationhopeful (Jun 21, 2009)

At least midnight tomorrow is better the midnight yesterday.

And think of that PROOF of mailing via the USPS to be thousand dollar bills.  Faxing is NOT how you break a legal contract, nor is texting, emailing, tweetering, or renting a billboard.


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## PigsDad (Jun 21, 2009)

Kmakani said:


> Found the cancellation notice (by midnight tomorrow). Faxed it over now. WHEW! I'll fax and call tomorrow as well to make sure this is definitely done. Seth sounded like he knows his timeshare info. Has anyone else worked with him?


As others have said, definitely send the recission letter via registered US Mail.  It does not need to delivered to them by the deadline -- it just needs to be sent by the deadline.  Registered US Mail will give you the proof that you sent the letter -- fax does not.

Kurt


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## Zac495 (Jun 21, 2009)

Yes, I have bought two timeshares from seth - he's great. I bought one Hilton, one Marriott. He knows his stuff. 

No matter what - you do NOT want to purchase something without knowing all the ins/outs and options. My personal opinion (and that of most on the board) buy from Seth or another reputable broker or ebay (though some transactions on ebay have had issues - so Seth is a better bet in MHO). But if you decide, after reading and thinking and learning that it's worth spending 4X more to buy direct - fine - do it - but only once you know what you're doing.

Welcome to TUG. So glad you found us in time. Rescind now. Think now. Talk now. Research now. Buy later.


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## bosco0633 (Jun 21, 2009)

hopefully it all works out for you.  I used Judy Kozlowski of remax in Florida.  Her number is 1800 541-5666 ext. 622.  She is amazing and will walk you through everything from A to Z when buying resale.

Good luck


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## Pronkster (Jun 21, 2009)

I bought my first two timeshares from Seth back in 2004.  He is very helpful straight forward about prices and the HGVC system.  I highly recommend using him.


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## jin (Jun 21, 2009)

Kmakani said:


> Found the cancellation notice (by midnight tomorrow). Faxed it over now. WHEW! I'll fax and call tomorrow as well to make sure this is definitely done. Seth sounded like he knows his timeshare info. Has anyone else worked with him?



I've also worked with Seth on both a HGVC purchase and Marriott purchase, and would HIGHLY recommend him.  He will find you the best deal available, and get you the price that will barely pass Hilton's Right of first refusal (i.e. you will pay the lowest price possible on a resale, which is about 50% of the deal you are rescinding.  You will love this sight! Pete


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## Kmakani (Jun 21, 2009)

Ok, it does say "mail or deliver a signed and dated copy of this cancellation notice or any written notice, or send a telegram to.....".I think I will make multiple copies, mail one certified as well as hand deliver one to the office. 

I'm so angry with myself for not going with my gut and taking in what this forum had said. The seller told us that if we bought resale, we would never be able to add on club points when I asked her about it. You get what you get and that's it. So, if we bought 7000 per year, and wanted to add 5000 more, would that mean we need to buy into a new week, new additional MF, whether it is from a resale or hilton itself? That is what I took from Seth's conversation.....


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## dakotafamily (Jun 21, 2009)

We are interested in buying resale also. Just wondering if the "bonus days" that would get you extra days under 60 days before check-in found online are available to resale buyers or if that is something that is only for those that buy direct from HGVC. Thanks for any advice on this.


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## Talent312 (Jun 22, 2009)

Kmakani said:


> ... The seller told us that if we bought resale, we would never be able to add on club points when I asked her about it. You get what you get and that's it. So, if we bought 7000 per year, and wanted to add 5000 more, would that mean we need to buy into a new week, new additional MF, whether it is from a resale or hilton itself? That is what I took from Seth's conversation.....



How do you know a TS-salesperson is lying?  Their lips are moving.
To add more points, you may: (a) purchase a second TS, (b) sell the one you have and replace it with another, or (c) get HGVC to trade your resale-unit for one of theirs (at their price). They'll do it, too. They made me that offer (which I turned down).

It makes no difference whether the 2nd TS is from Hilton or resale. As long as the names on the deeds are identical, HGVC will add the points from a new one to your existing account.  You can accumulate as many points as you want with multiple units, but you end up paying multiple MF's.  IOW, the fewer units the better.

*To Dakota Family:* "Just wondering if the 'bonus days' that would get you extra days under 60 days before check-in found online are available to resale buyers..."

Bonus Points (not "days") may be used only for...
1. Open Season Reservations at "affiliated" resorts (_30 days b4 check-out_).
2. RCI Reservations.
3. Hilton Hotel Reservations.
4. Conversion to Hilton Honors points.
5. A credit toward Maintenance Fees.
6. Various other partner perks.
... and once they're gone, they're gone.  Take their value as a deduction off the price HGVC quoted you and what do you have? A TS for which you still paid far too much.


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## judgerey (Jun 22, 2009)

dakotafamily said:


> We are interested in buying resale also. Just wondering if the "bonus days" that would get you extra days under 60 days before check-in found online are available to resale buyers or if that is something that is only for those that buy direct from HGVC. Thanks for any advice on this.



I assume by "bonus days" you mean "open season."  Open season is available 30 days prior to your check-out date, not 60.  Yes, open season is available to resale buyers.  

If by "bonus days" you are referring to "bonus points" you get if you buy directly from Hilton, then no, they are not available to resale buyers.


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## Kmakani (Jun 22, 2009)

My husband and I sat in the timeshare office this morning. It was so funny, being warned about the excuses. First we had you sales person is not working today, next you'll need to see the manager. We had our game faces on, ready for anything. 
What happened was the manager took our rescind notice, made a copy and signed and dated a copy for us. She said that this company is Hilton and they don't mess around to make things difficult. If we want something, they can make it happen, If we don't they can close it that easy. 
That was refreshing...

Now, with the possible purchase with Seth. Do you still get all of the brochures, booklets and info sheets for a resale like you would buying direct?


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## Talent312 (Jun 22, 2009)

Kmakani said:


> Now, with the possible purchase with Seth. Do you still get all of the brochures, booklets and info sheets for a resale like you would buying direct?



*Congrats on a successful rescind.*
No... you do not get a bunch of PR booklets with glossy photos and nifty charts.
After you buy, you will get a welcome kit with membership cards and the annual Member's Guide.  Its chock full of glossy photos, nifty charts, and an over-abundance of mind-numbing verbage (do not worry, the test is open-book).  Resale buyers also get Silver HHonors memberships automatically, so you will receive a HHonors welcome kit with membership cards (if you already have a HH-account, they can be combined).

You will also have access the HGVC members' website from which you can find a plethera of information, the Member's Guide, your account status, and make reservations.  To get a taste, visit the public-side at: http://www.hiltongrandvacations.com/


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## PigsDad (Jun 22, 2009)

Kmakani said:


> She said that this company is Hilton and they don't mess around to make things difficult.


That was our experience when rescinding our HGVC contract as well.  They are a class act, IMO.

Kurt


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## Kmakani (Jun 22, 2009)

I'm still a bit restless if that was it. My husband said not to worry and he believes that if the manager signed the rescind document with date and time that should be enough. I'm just a worrier  

Once a timeshare is bought resale, how long until you can use it or transfer the hgvc to Honors points?

Thank you all for your wonderful replies, it really has made this timeshare experience much easier. If anyone here needs advice about visiting Hawaii, just let me know!

Aloha!


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## capjak (Jun 22, 2009)

Kmakani said:


> Now, with the possible purchase with Seth. Do you still get all of the brochures, booklets and info sheets for a resale like you would buying direct?




Go here it is the quide.

http://www.hiltongrandvacations.com/mg/


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## Talent312 (Jun 23, 2009)

Kmakani said:


> Once a timeshare is bought resale, how long until you can use it or transfer the hgvc to Honors points?



The time it takes from signing the contract to actual transfer of ownership on the both the county and TS-management records is an issue in nearly  every TS closing.  There can be lengthy waits, esp. if the closing agency or one of the parties drag their feet.

I did a HGVC closing for a relative of mine (used to do this for a living). Here's how long it took us:
1. Getting the paperwork signed by all parties -- 2 weeks.
3. Givng HGVC enuff time to pass on ROFR** -- 4 weeks.
4. Having the deed recorded & returned -- 2 weeks.
5. Having the transfer processed by HGVC -- 2 weeks.
... IOW, if you're lucky and everything goes well -- 2 1/2 months, maybe.

**HGVC holds a right of first refusal for all its properties, 'cept Flamingo.  If someone sells their TS for a low price, Hilton may step in and snap it up for themselves. Most resale agencies know what will pass ROFR and what won't.


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## alwysonvac (Jun 23, 2009)

Kmakani said:


> Thank you all for your wonderful replies, it really has made this timeshare experience much easier.



Welcome to TUG  

When you get a chance, take a look at the information provided in the threads at the top of the HGVC forum titled "STICKY". I think you'll find them helpful.


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## hockeybrain (Jun 23, 2009)

Just to add to Talent 312's great information - buying in Hawaii may take a little longer.   We started our transaction mid-March and we are still waiting.   We are up to having the transfer processed by HGVC.   Just my 2 cents, but you should speak with Judi as well as Seth.    They may have different perspectives on which property might be best for your family.   I would recommend hearing them both out and going with the one that is more logical for your situation.   In our case Judi made a better case for our needs, which alters what property location and what size, season (points) are best for your family.   Best of luck in any event .


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## jlee2070 (Jun 23, 2009)

Kmakani said:


> I'm so angry with myself for not going with my gut and taking in what this forum had said. The seller told us that if we bought resale, we would never be able to add on club points when I asked her about it. You get what you get and that's it. So, if we bought 7000 per year, and wanted to add 5000 more, would that mean we need to buy into a new week, new additional MF, whether it is from a resale or hilton itself? That is what I took from Seth's conversation.....



Even buying from HGVC directly, you are able NOT to "ADD" points.  I believe each point contract is deeded to a unit/week so you can't simply "ADD" points...  They will likely offer what you paid for it originally as credit towards the additional points.  However, there is probably a minimum amount of increased $$$ before you qualify to do this.  Heck...  I bought resale and then went to a presentation some time later and HGVC offered me the ORIGINAL sales price for my resale unit towards upgrading to additional points provided the new transaction was more than $7K increase...  They offered like $12K for a unit I purchased for $3200.  I declined...  

NOTE: my numbers may be off a bit but the message is clear...  Buying from developer does not allow you to simply add points either...


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## Blues (Jun 24, 2009)

Kmakani said:


> I'm still a bit restless if that was it. My husband said not to worry and he believes that if the manager signed the rescind document with date and time that should be enough. I'm just a worrier



Yep, that was it.  As Kurt mentioned above, they're a class act.  You have nothing to worry about.

-Bob


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