# [2012] Fairness on reviews of TS locations?



## GregGH

I get to the member reviews a couple of times a year ... when I get curious.

Noticed a couple of new reviews for my home resort of Aviara ... and especially the one with a score or 4 ... four out of 10  ... really ... ?  It was  written by ..nbraney   but I can't search this name for other posts they may have written .... hmm ....

I realize scores are akin to figure skating judges - throw out the Hi & the Low -- and you get a fair idea ... but .... I still think of what a score of 'four' would be like at other resorts .... one harsh judge here ... eh?

Here is their quote ( with my comments in red )
"We were expecting a very nice resort according to reviews on this site. We stayed for a week in the Osprey Building in a studio unit. There are no elevators, so since we are located upstairs, we have to walk up 18 stairs every day. In addition, there is limited parking, so in order to get to the nearest pool, we have to walk up and down 46 steps down a hill. The stairway is not very well kept up, with pine straw and sand covering it in some places, which if wet could cause a fall.

Reply -  Osprey is at the 'highest point in the complex - we stayed they last year and loved the location.  Yes -the stairs mentioned can get covered by  pine needles (since the trees are abundant) - but they usually are sweep on a regular basis ( as is everything else at Aviara )  and a quick call to the front desk gets that done within an hour ... the writer doesn't mention you can walk down the sidewalk to the Summit pool .. but then they seem to want to 'drive' everywhere were... GH

The unit itself is average for a studio. The bed is comfortable with nice linens. We rearranged the furniture upon arrival because the sofa is on the same wall as the tv, so the only place to watch tv is from the bed. We moved the sofa to the same side as the bed. I would expect the Four Seasons to have a separate shower and tub even in a studio, but not the case. We did expect limited cooking facilities, although we have stayed in a studio that had two burners. There is a microwave, toaster, coffee maker, blender and electric tea maker, which seems a waste. You can easily make tea in the microwave. The resort provides free "slow" internet. If you want some speed, you have to pay $6.00 per day. Most timeshares like Marriott, Hilton, and Sheraton provide high speed wifi at no charge, so I felt the Four Seasons is being a cheapskate in this regard. They do provide robes and "refresh" service every day. That is the nicest thing that they do for the guests. If someone is considering Southern California for a vacation, a better choice is the Marriott Newport Villas as we just came from there and wish we had stayed there another week rather than making this exchange. I am not a novice in the timeshare area. This is the 17th week of timeshares that we have used this year. I doubt that I will trade into a Four Seasons again, although the resort at Pinnacle Peak was far superior to this."

Not sure where to begin - 'average' studio .. hmmm ... no 'burners' well true ... or no separate shower ... true .. you would be happier in a 1 bbd unit with whatever you traded with ?  The 'refresh' every day on maid  service is slightly more than a 'refresh' if you ever see what the staff do ... impressive.  One last point -- I  am an owner ....so the free hi-speed internet is a cost we as owners would bear in our maintenance fee .. and yes - we do pay some of the highest fees for the services ...  so when a 'trader' comes in and gives the resort a FOUR out of 10 ... hmmmmm ....   would  like to know how they rate their home location ... where you get to drive to the pool ... driving is a waste of the beauty of this location - honk when you drive by me - I am the one walking the dog ( she likes to walk too )

A four .... holly cow .... 

Greg H


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## klpca

pfffftttt! One persons opinion! I wouldn't worry about it. Compared to the other reviews it's clearly a contrary view. There are people who aren't happy unless they have something to complain about.

I'm happy to see that the reviews aren't censored. It gives them a bit more credibility, IMHO.


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## Ridewithme38

No Elevators, no burners, no separate shower, no High speed Wifi, average rooms at best, sounds like a 4 to me...

What DO you guys pay so much for? the maid coming in and running the vacuum?


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## presley

That reminds me of when I was on the Disney Dream.  It was first cruise and my husband and I were BLOWN away by how amazing everything was and how friendly all the staff were at all times.  I overheard a woman (actually, she was sitting outside of where I was getting a massage, practically yelling) complaining to a friend about everything from scheduling a pedicure to the wait staff not remembering her likes/dislikes.  It was like we were on two different cruises.  I wish I had her problems in life.  :rofl:


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## Passepartout

I tend to take extreme reviews with a grain of salt. Renters and exchangers are going to get lesser accommodations than owners. Owners are going to give better reviews than renters or exchangers. That's the way it is.

Jim


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## timeos2

Ridewithme38 said:


> No Elevators, no burners, no separate shower, no High speed Wifi, average rooms at best, sounds like a 4 to me...
> 
> What DO you guys pay so much for? the maid coming in and running the vacuum?



Trading into a resort/unit that has known limitations that can't be changed (ie no elevators vs a self serving bogus fee charged only to exchange guests although paid already in the owners annual fees) is completely out of line. If you don't like/ can't deal with stairs don't trade in!  If they hit exchange guests only with fees feel free to blast them or hit them with appropriately low scores & say why. That is out of line. Known consttuction limitations aren't IMO. 

MY big beef with many rankings are the ones badly outdated that don't reflect recent changes both good and bad. Those can give distorted views of what you'll get if you trade in.


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## GregGH

timeos2 said:


> MY big beef with many rankings are the ones badly outdated that don't reflect recent changes both good and bad. Those can give distorted views of what you'll get if you trade in.



There is an idea -- to 'weight' the rating by date - giving older rating diminishing weight factor ....  valid point as something great 5 years is almost ancient history in TS's ...  vs something great in the past 12 months.

You mention extra fees for renters - any names on who does that ?

Greg


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## TUGBrian

ill see if we can perhaps establish a dual rating system...one for an overall score...and another that perhaps just takes an average of the reviews over the past 60 months.

dont hold me to this just in case its a gigantic nightmare in terms of coding...but ill see what I can do.


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## JudyS

GregGH said:


> ....
> Here is their quote ( with my comments in red )
> "We were expecting a very nice resort according to reviews on this site. We stayed for a week in the Osprey Building in a studio unit. There are no elevators, so since we are located upstairs, we have to walk up 18 stairs every day. In addition, there is limited parking, so in order to get to the nearest pool, we have to walk up and down 46 steps down a hill. The stairway is not very well kept up, with pine straw and sand covering it in some places, which if wet could cause a fall.
> 
> Reply -  Osprey is at the 'highest point in the complex - we stayed they last year and loved the location.  Yes -the stairs mentioned can get covered by  pine needles (since the trees are abundant) - but they usually are sweep on a regular basis ( as is everything else at Aviara )  and a quick call to the front desk gets that done within an hour ... the writer doesn't mention you can walk down the sidewalk to the Summit pool .. but then they seem to want to 'drive' everywhere were... GH


...

A lot of timeshare owners are older and have difficultly with stairs. (I am only 49, and already have to use a wheelchair for anything more than a very short walk, sigh.) I don't know how much information Aviara provides about stairs, but it sounds like this unit involved more stairs and walking than many of the other units at the resort. So probably, this unit had more  walking & stairs than the exchangers were expecting.


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## ran-ran

GregGH said:


> You mention extra fees for renters - any names on who does that ?
> 
> Greg



I can speak for two that do from very recent experience. I will usually comment these fees on my TUG reviews as well. I personally think that many of the extra fees that are charged to RCI exchangers are not fair but I don't make the rules. Usually when you are looking at the RCI information page it will disclose any additional fees that are charged for exchangers.

I just stayed at The Galleon Resort in Key West 12/3/11 - 12/10/11 and they charge $20. plus taxes for exchangers for phone and internet use. 

The Fort Lauderdale Beach Resort charges $10.00 for the privilege of using the safe in the room, whether you use it or not. They do not charge this fee to owners. I know because I paid the fee prior to owning there and now I don't.

I personally think that everyone has the right to give a rating based on their experience to whatever it is that they deem appropriate. That is why it all averages out. The weighing system where newest ratings give more credence to the score makes sense to me as that would be more relevant. Another option is to be able to link the reviewer to all of their reviews like RCI does. This option allows you to see if the reviewer is a constant complainer or if the reviewer actually made a legitimate complaint.


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## rickandcindy23

No way did Aviara deserve a 4.  The person who wrote this review is too picky and the review doesn't deserve your time reading it.  

We loved Aviara, absolutely perfect resort and experience. Daily maid service, superior units and kitchens, and the studio side of our two-bedroom was amazing for a studio.  It was right up there with the Westin Maui studio.  

That is what this guy expected, probably: separate tub at the Westins, full-sized refrigerator, and two burners, even a small dishwasher in those.


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## Keep Traveling

That's the beauty of reviews...Everyone has their opinion and you have to read why they felt that way.

What if everyone at the resort was RUDE to them...Should it get a high rating.

How about someone's visit to the Grande Luxxe, nice property but construction going on and management wouldn't do anything about the noise.  

Keep the system the way it is...

KT


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## timeos2

GregGH said:


> There is an idea -- to 'weight' the rating by date - giving older rating diminishing weight factor ....  valid point as something great 5 years is almost ancient history in TS's ...  vs something great in the past 12 months.
> 
> You mention extra fees for renters - any names on who does that ?
> 
> Greg



The most infamous is the one that started it all - DVC's "exchange penalty" fee of $95/stay only to exchangers. Now we have a similar ripoff from The Manhattan Club ($25/day) and there are others.  Most aren't as high as that, but still shouldn't exist.  Examples would be WiFi fees only to exchangers but not owners (if they charge both I have no problem with a reasonable fee - that means it is a pay per use and the owners aren't paying it in their annual fees). 

Even though the penalty fees are disclosed I still feel they are taking advantage of exchange guests and thus the resort deserves to get down graded scores due to those unfair expenss.


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## T_R_Oglodyte

TUGBrian said:


> ill see if we can perhaps establish a dual rating system...one for an overall score...and another that perhaps just takes an average of the reviews over the past 60 months.
> 
> dont hold me to this just in case its a gigantic nightmare in terms of coding...but ill see what I can do.



That only makes sense if there is a reasonable number of scores to work with, If the resort only  has two reviews in the last five years, that rating is meaningless.

*****

Anyway as I've often stated I think the numerical rating system is a complete waste of time and effort anyway.  The issue involving aging of scores is one of lesser problems with trying to assing numeric scores to resorts.

The reviews are very valuable; the rankings, though, are meaningless.


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## Ridewithme38

T_R_Oglodyte said:


> The reviews are very valuable; the rankings, though, are meaningless.



The problem with the rankings is that people who based on their reviews Should be posting a 3, are posting 5's across the board...IMO, NO resort is perfect and with a 5(or 10 in some systems) being a perfect score...NO resort should be rated that


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## rickandcindy23

Ridewithme38 said:


> The problem with the rankings is that people who based on their reviews Should be posting a 3, are posting 5's across the board...IMO, NO resort is perfect and with a 5(or 10 in some systems) being a perfect score...NO resort should be rated that



You are a TUG member, you should read the reviews and see the recommendations of the rankings.  A "10" means it is the best resort you have ever been.  I have stayed at the Westins on Maui and Kauai, and I have been to FSA, and they are 10 quality, believe me.  Perfect locations, beautiful units, wonderful staff, and all of the pampering you want, if you are that type of person.  

I have never seen kitchens nicer than FSA.  Fabulous everything, and they replenished our coffee daily, and our shampoo and conditioner daily.  Supreme service, deserving a 10.  

Lack of elevators?  The building we were in was two stories.  If you need a lower-level unit, then request one.  They would oblige such requests.  My only complaint was the little kids above us who ran wild and jumped on the beds and jumped off noisily, and at 6:00 a.m. to begin every day.  It was noisy, but it was not the fault of FSA, and certainly that is extreme rowdiness.  No way did we hear ordinary footsteps, but the jumping off of the bed, we heard it.  Parents were at fault.  We will ask for an upper-level unit next time.  

The family came running and screaming down the stairs to leave the morning of their check-out, and that was even earlier than 6:00 a.m. I went out to see this noisy bunch, prepared to grouse at them, and the kids were adorable.  I had to smile.

We saw a guy walking around with his cute little white poodle at FSA back in February.  Was that you, Greg?


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## T_R_Oglodyte

Ridewithme38 said:


> The problem with the rankings is that people who based on their reviews Should be posting a 3, are posting 5's across the board...IMO, NO resort is perfect and with a 5(or 10 in some systems) being a perfect score...NO resort should be rated that


From that comment I'm guessing that you are unfamiliar with the TUG ranking system.  If you are not familiar with what the system is I don't see why your comment should be afforded any deference.

****

Beyond that, the concept of issuing numerical rankings to resorts is ludicrous and can never work because it assumes that the criteria used to make the ranking define the perfect resort.  

If there is no consensus as to what the rules should be the results of the ranking are garbage.  GIGO.

The solution is pretty simple - read the reviews and decide if the resort is what you would like or not.  Just forget about numerical rankings.


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## GregGH

rickandcindy23 said:


> We saw a guy walking around with his cute little white poodle at FSA back in February.  Was that you, Greg?



Hi--sorry-- I have a Golden Retriever ... cute story ... when we first started to go to Aviara ..asking on dog limitations ...and mentioned 'our girl'  ....the person on the desk 'snapped back' ...oh we would never ask a lady her weight.   Remembered that but I can forget almost everything else.  Mind you that was Golden#2 ... we now have Golden #3 ...be careful the are addictive (unless you are the vacuum cleaner bag buyer )

The rating is kind of a badge that Four Seasons wears well - since they have such an attention to detail .... Thanks Brian for any tweaking on rating relative to time  it will certainly help TS's who drastically improve ( or decline ) over say a few years ...

Greg


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## Ridewithme38

T_R_Oglodyte said:


> From that comment I'm guessing that you are unfamiliar with the TUG ranking system.  If you are not familiar with what the system is I don't see why your comment should be afforded any deference.
> 
> ****



It's the same problem across all numerical reviews i've seen, i don't put my credence in the scores because in general people vote too high...I've avoided the Tug ranking system for a couple reasons, first the bias of those who rent/exchange the units they own, giving too high of a score to falsely increase value...and the fact that people don't realize a perfect score is completely unattainable, even the best resort has problems that keep it from earning a perfect score...when i do read reviews i usually completely skip over the bias of the *perfect* scores and the unusual results of the 0-1 scores...and read the actual reviews from actual people


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## rickandcindy23

> I've avoided the Tug ranking system for a couple reasons, first the bias of those who rent/exchange the units they own, giving too high of a score to falsely increase value...



Cynical, pessimistic, I don't know what this is.  

I am always pretty honest in my reviews, and I never go to the resorts I actually own, well not until we bought on Maui.  I have no reason to LIE in a review.  If one of my resorts deserves bad ratings, then I accept it.  

I think Twin Rivers, where I have owned for 31 years, needs to increase fees and improve so many things, but the board chooses not to.  I would be more critical of Twin Rivers today than most anyone, that's for sure, because the place gets worse by the year.  I have seen the steady decline, and it's not a pretty picture.  The decks with the views of the water are spectacular, but that's about the only thing I can say great about it.  You can see that picture of Rick and me on the deck in the New York Times article Brian has on the main page of TUG.  I was in the New York Times!  :rofl:


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## Ridewithme38

rickandcindy23 said:


> I think Twin Rivers, where I have owned for 31 years, needs to increase fees and improve so many things, but the board chooses not to.  I would be more critical of Twin Rivers today than most anyone, that's for sure, because the place gets worse by the year.  I have seen the steady decline, and it's not a pretty picture.  The decks with the views of the water are spectacular, but that's about the only thing I can say great about it.  :rofl:



If you had to rate that resort right now, what would you give it? TO ME, that sounds like a 2



rickandcindy23 said:


> Cynical, pessimistic, I don't know what this is.


As for Optimism vs Pessimism...The glass is ALWAYS completely full, its just half with water and half with air


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## pedro47

What would the OP rates this resort at this time?


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## ran-ran

*High Country Club Maui Palms at Wailea*

I don't want this to sound as a complaint because I really do a thorough job of reading the reviews from fellow TUGGERS as well as other sites like Redweek and RCI to get an idea of what the experiences have been for fellow travelers. I believe it is a huge benefit to have useful and up to date information for us to review and consider. 

With that being said, I was reviewing Hawaii's Top Resorts as reported on TUG and the number 1 resort is High Country Club Maui Palms at Wailea with a single review and that reviewer visited the resort, Oct 21, 2007. That is over four years ago and with a single review how is it remotely plausible that this is the best resort on this system for Hawaii?

The issue with this, IMO is that a single review should not warrant a first place rating among ALL Hawaiian resorts or any category for that matter.
Another issue is that the lack of recent reviews should not qualify an old review should still warrant a first place rating.
Without a quality rating system the rating system becomes worthless and it should not be that way. We as a group want to encourage others to review the resorts we travel too and be able to know that the information is valid.


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## T_R_Oglodyte

ran-ran said:


> Without a quality rating system the rating system becomes worthless and it should not be that way.



"Quality rating system" is an oxymoron.  There is no way to create a timeshare resort rating system that is anything other than meaningless, at best.


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## DeniseM

ran-ran said:


> With that being said, I was reviewing Hawaii's Top Resorts as reported on TUG and the number 1 resort is High Country Club Maui Palms at Wailea with a single review and that reviewer visited the resort, Oct 21, 2007. That is over four years ago and with a single review how is it remotely plausible that this is the best resort on this system for Hawaii?



That review should actually be removed, because that unit was a house in a destination club that went belly up, and it isn't accessible to anyone any more - much less for a TS exchange.  I sent the Mgr. for the Hawaii reviews a pm to see if it can be removed.  A defunct property should not have the top rating.

That being said, I think the overall ranking (not individual scores) of the top Hawaii timeshares is pretty darn accurate.


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## TUGBrian

also note, that resort ratings are a combination of reviews...and ratings submitted without reviews.

not just reviews.


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## easyrider

I use the ratings only as an indicator of overall satisfaction of the customers served. Reviews are a better indicator. On Trip Advisor there are over 1000 reviews of some resorts with a rating. I like this. 

I like the TUG reviews because most of the reviewers are seasoned travelers who know what is what with timeshare resorts.


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## GregGH

TUGBrian said:


> ill see if we can perhaps establish a dual rating system...one for an overall score...and another that perhaps just takes an average of the reviews over the past 60 months.
> 
> dont hold me to this just in case its a gigantic nightmare in terms of coding...but ill see what I can do.



Bump to thread .... I see that THIS reviewer's rating of a 4/10 has moved Aviara to second place behind a Marriott ... 

Also - I can't search for any other posting on the forum for 'nbraney'.

I rate wines ... ( typically 80 thru 95  thanks to Robert Parker ) ... when you get a rogue ranker - there has to be some 'offset' or adjustment ...  in the mean time I have bought 2 more weeks to now have 9 weeks for 2014 ...  guess I rate it higher than a 4 .... 

Greg


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## TUGBrian

we changed the rating to reflect only reviews in the past 7 years.


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## Bruce W

Passepartout said:


> I tend to take extreme reviews with a grain of salt. Renters and exchangers are going to get lesser accommodations than owners. Owners are going to give better reviews than renters or exchangers. That's the way it is.
> 
> Jim



I agree, saw one on the Galleon one day where the reviewer ripped the resort on their RCI comment card because:

1. It rained all week
2. They did not pick him up at the airport at 10PM with the free shuttle, even though the shuttle picks up until 6PM


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## Beefnot

GregGH said:


> Bump to thread .... I see that THIS reviewer's rating of a 4/10 has moved Aviara to second place behind a Marriott ...
> 
> Also - I can't search for any other posting on the forum for 'nbraney'.
> 
> I rate wines ... ( typically 80 thru 95  thanks to Robert Parker ) ... when you get a rogue ranker - there has to be some 'offset' or adjustment ...  in the mean time I have bought 2 more weeks to now have 9 weeks for 2014 ...  guess I rate it higher than a 4 ....
> 
> Greg



When I get around to my Aviara review, I too will be bringing down the average, though just slightly, since a "4" sure seems absurd for this resort.


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## csxjohn

timeos2 said:


> ...Even though the penalty fees are disclosed I still feel they are taking advantage of exchange guests and thus the resort deserves to get down graded scores due to those unfair expenss.



I agree, if I don't get the same thing the owner gets that I traded with to get the unit I feel I'm being unfairly treated and my scoring will reflect that.

Isn't that the suggestion that was being handed out on the Bonnet Creek transportation fee issue?

When I see an owner rank his resort with nothing at all wrong with it I take into consideration that the reviewer may be thinking of selling in the future and has a vested interest in making his resort look better than it really is.

I just read each review and see if the complaints seem valid or not and whether or not they apply to me and my family.


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## WalnutBaron

TUGBrian said:


> ill see if we can perhaps establish a dual rating system...one for an overall score...and another that perhaps just takes an average of the reviews over the past 60 months.
> 
> dont hold me to this just in case its a gigantic nightmare in terms of coding...but ill see what I can do.



Thanks, Brian, for looking into this. I'm an owner at Bay Club Waikoloa. Last year, Hilton completed a complete remodeling of all of the units and the pools and landscaping. It's like a completely new resort. The best part is that the units themselves are huge compared with more recently-built units nearby. Recent reviews of Bay Club from TUGgers reflect the change; there's a definite upswing in the overall ratings given to Bay Club since the completion of the remodeling effort. Unfortunately, this is not really reflected in the overall rating of the resort since the newer review ratings are averaged with all of the reviews done from as long as ten years ago.

Just one more thought: five years seems long to me for the second rating...I would think that reviews written within the past two or three years are more relevant.

Anyway, thanks again for looking into this!


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## TUGBrian

as listed, ratings over 7 years do not get included in the overall rating.

we also stopped publishing ratings of 1/2 or 9/10 without a review.

if the resort was that terrible, or that fabulous...you should at least explain why.


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## Timeshare Von

As someone who writes and reads reviews on various travel aspects (lodging, restaurants, attractions, etc), I have to say they should only be taken with a grain of salt in the first place.  If the reader is taking the time to research something, they should be seeking many data sources and in doing so, they will obtain a better picture through the trends provided.

Yes a rogue reviewer can cause a tilt, but if you know that and they are the relative exception, move on and ignore their feedback.


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## tombo

Most of my exchanges have been great. Perhaps I am not as picky, or perhaps I am just reasonable and don't expect EVERYTHING to be perfect. I have never stayed in a timeshare that deserved a rating of one out of ten.

When I read the reviews I am often amazed at what minor problem "ruins" someone's vacation and leads them to posting the lowest rating possible. Often they say the resort was nice, room clean, location good, but the front desk person was rude or check in took too long. I usually only see the front desk person once or twice in 7 days, and I only check in once. They could not be rude enough to "ruin" my trip. 

Others ask for a room change to better view, location, larger unit, recently upgraded, etc on an exchange and have a "ruined" trip because their request was not granted. Constant posts here about empty rooms everywhere but the front desk refused to move them. I go in on an exchange expecting the best locations, views, units to go to owners at the resort while hoping to get one of the best units as an exchanger. Some times I get lucky and that is a bonus, but I do not get mad and have my vacation "ruined" when it doesn't happen. At my resorts where I pay MF's that have floating weeks I fully expect to get the best units, not exchangers. And if I reserve a week as an owner whether I come late or leave early that is my unit I paid for and it should sit empty if I am not using it for the full week just in case I come late or decide to return. Plus the owner might have deposited a unit that was not upgraded or has a poor view. The owner would get the unit that they own if they had used it personally. Why should an exchanger expect special treatment? If you buy resort view at an oceanfront resort do you argue with the front desk that you should be upgraded to ocean view when you are checking in?

Then you have the white glove people who have their trip "ruined" if there is any dirt or dust the cleaning crew missed, a dish was not washed well, a tile on the floor is chipped, there is a stain in the sink or toilet, something breaks (even if it is fixed quickly), a dripping faucet, the wi fi is down, there is no wi-fi, charges for wi-fi, towels not fluffy enough, sheets not thick enough, beds too soft, beds too hard, a drawer handle broken, the appliances/TV's are not the newest and most modern, the counter tops aren't granite, a light bulb is blown, etc,etc,etc, etc..... 

Trips are also "ruined" because there were too many kids, no activities for kids, adult only pool, no adult only pool, slow elevators, poor on site restaurants, no on site restaurants, heavy traffic, parking not near room, small lobby, too much noise, near the street, too far from everything, too close to everything, too many activities, too few activities, resort too large, resort too small, pool too small,pool too crowded, resort too spread out, resort too cramped, etc,etc,etc,etc.....

I go on vacation to have fun and relax. Minor things will never ruin my valuable time away from work. I look at the overall trip/resort rather than obsessing over minor problems. If 90% is great then I had a great trip. When I read the reviews from some people I think how miserable they must be in life if a minor problem or two in Hawaii, the Caribbean, the mountains, at the beach, ski destination, in New York, etc "ruins" their whole trip. JMHO.


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## timeos2

Tombo - Right on.  I too am surprised how much people place importance on the tiny things that, usually, have a small impact on the overall trip to someplace they want to go (or else why are they there?). Even my wife at times tends to bemoan that our master bedroom may not face the West or pool or recreation area or whatever she thinks could be nice - who cares? As long as we're not next to the dumpsters, below ground level (there are more units than I would think with this flaw) the unit is reasonably clean & well maintained and in the general area we wanted why sweat it? I'll downgrade for dirty, poor upkeep, unwarranted fees (but not a REASONABLE wifi or other fee IF we choose to use that feature) and real issues but overall try to give a fair rating to what we find. 

I do think far too many reviews tend toward the high end - there are maybe a few dozen overall "10" resorts - most are middle of the road at 5-7 ranking that shouldn't be a negative but a norm - with the nicest experiences earning an 8-9.  A true 10 is a super experience you'll seldom find so far too many of those are handed out IMO. In some ways the low end is equally abused as saying anything above a Motel 6 is a "1" is seldom the case.  Those extreme rankings should be reserved for truly special or incredibly poor resorts so they are correctly identified. A 2 would be a real a real bad rank while a 9 near perfection. That, and the age of the comments / ranking - once a review is a year or two old there is no guarantee it will have any relationship to the situation today, are the most important things when we read any review.


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## GregGH

timeos2 said:


> ..... snip .....I do think far too many reviews tend toward the high end - there are maybe a few dozen overall "10" resorts - most are middle of the road at 5-7 ranking that shouldn't be a negative but a norm - with the nicest experiences earning an 8-9.  A true 10 is a super experience you'll seldom find so far too many of those are handed out IMO. In some ways the low end is equally abused as saying anything above a Motel 6 is a "1" is seldom the case.  Those extreme rankings should be reserved for truly special or incredibly poor resorts so they are correctly identified. A 2 would be a real a real bad rank while a 9 near perfection. That, and the age of the comments / ranking - once a review is a year or two old there is no guarantee it will have any relationship to the situation today, are the most important things when we read any review.



I think there has been some good discussion on ratings by many - thank you.   Much like the wine rating I mentioned earlier ) boxed into a narrow 85-92 when the the numbers available  from 1- 100 ) ... I wonder if we need to re-think the whole rating system ... ?????

Points 
-many rating are influenced by the beauty of the area ...fair or not???
-true - some 'small point' blown up out of proportion to deflate a rating

WHAT ... IF ... you assigned points for a variety of factors ... and in TOTAL these came to a 'combined score'

say ..... ( just rough ) ... these are key sections of the total pie ....
-ease of reservation
-first impressions
-cleanliness
-your villa features 
-attention to detail & requests
-security and safety
-depth of amenities on site
-local geographical beauty and activities
- ( #9 )  open to your suggestions
- ( #10 )   "         "       "

Take these 10 sections -- and rate them 1-10 .... then the programer ( better to  wear out than rust out I always say on programers ) add the TOTAL ...  then we would get less impact for one 'small thing'

In addition -- assign a weight to reviews that are CURRENT - within 12 months ... an factor down 20% a year for each year they age .... that handles reviews a few years out but the resort has really gone down hill since then ....  

This could really give us a GREAT rating system ... instead of a number so tight to the existing 8-9.5 we have ....

Extra Point --how can you assign bonus points ??? Things that could take a resort OVER the top ... for these resorts that earn it ...
-bonus points could be ..... 1/10 of 1 point for ....
-pool temp at 83 or higher
-pool attendants and /or no pool chair hogs allowed
-extremely good pillows &/or mattresses
-staff know you by name
-ability to schedule villa housekeeping at specific time each day
-(extreme) cleanliness of steam rooms & gym
-(extreme) cleanliness of parking lots and grounds
these are just a few == but how do you reward locations for that extra effort in a time of pressure on maintenance fee 'controls'

This is all meant in the best of intentions and to simulate conversions .... to getting a better rating system ...

Greg


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## Timeshare Von

I must say that I have rarely had a horrific timeshare stay or experience.  I've had some that started out marginally or with some challenges along the way, but at the end of the day, the timeshare is really just a place to sleep and east some meals.  Our needs are pretty basic and anything above that is a bonus.


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## GregGH

Timeshare Von said:


> ...snip .... but at the end of the day, the timeshare is really just a place to sleep and east some meals.  Our needs are pretty basic and anything above that is a bonus.




So if you rate a place as a '9.5' ...someone with higher expectations would be disappointed ... do you see my point ...how do you rate a TS so the ratings reflect a QPR ( Quality Price Ratio ) to steal a wine term ... and reflect a level on a  luxury scale ??

Greg


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## Timeshare Von

GregGH said:


> So if you rate a place as a '9.5' ...someone with higher expectations would be disappointed ... do you see my point ...how do you rate a TS so the ratings reflect a QPR ( Quality Price Ratio ) to steal a wine term ... and reflect a level on a  luxury scale ??
> 
> Greg



When I'm rating on a 1-10 scale here on TUG, I keep in mind and use the scale guidelines provided.  As much as I love our timeshare on Waikiki, I doubt I have rated it a 9.5 since it doesn't have onsite amenities that meet the rating scale for that high a rating/number.

Besides, I don't know that anyone expects timeshares to be rated on a QPR basis.  If so, my Waikiki would be a 10 because for the MF and "price to acquire" you might not find a better deal in Hawaii.


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## geekette

Interesting idea, but I would downgrade a pool at 83 degrees as that's lobster-cooking temps!  chair hogs are a reality in life, I would not mark down a resort for having some rude guests.  Having a pool attendant doesn't score extra points with me.

I think also that the area's beauty should not impact the score of A Resort unless you are talking about resort grounds landscaping.  If I fly into paradise and am enthralled by the beauty of it, that really should not be reflected in resort scores.

ease of reservation isn't a great point to be made, either, because it could be private rental, own to use, exchange ...   marking down a difficult RCI trade doesn't make sense to me.

Daily housekeeping is a rare feature so I don't see that as a reasonable item to include as far as scheduling.  If DH Exists, that could be a point.

attention to details, requests, knowing my name ...  these are not items I would generally have exposure to.  I very rarely need to ask staff for anything and like being anonymous.  

I appreciate that you are trying to get the conversation going but it was very quick to get to "but we see that from exactly opposite sides" and value different things.  This is what makes any rating system difficult.





GregGH said:


> I think there has been some good discussion on ratings by many - thank you.   Much like the wine rating I mentioned earlier ) boxed into a narrow 85-92 when the the numbers available  from 1- 100 ) ... I wonder if we need to re-think the whole rating system ... ?????
> 
> Points
> -many rating are influenced by the beauty of the area ...fair or not???
> -true - some 'small point' blown up out of proportion to deflate a rating
> 
> WHAT ... IF ... you assigned points for a variety of factors ... and in TOTAL these came to a 'combined score'
> 
> say ..... ( just rough ) ... these are key sections of the total pie ....
> -ease of reservation
> -first impressions
> -cleanliness
> -your villa features
> -attention to detail & requests
> -security and safety
> -depth of amenities on site
> -local geographical beauty and activities
> - ( #9 )  open to your suggestions
> - ( #10 )   "         "       "
> 
> Take these 10 sections -- and rate them 1-10 .... then the programer ( better to  wear out than rust out I always say on programers ) add the TOTAL ...  then we would get less impact for one 'small thing'
> 
> In addition -- assign a weight to reviews that are CURRENT - within 12 months ... an factor down 20% a year for each year they age .... that handles reviews a few years out but the resort has really gone down hill since then ....
> 
> This could really give us a GREAT rating system ... instead of a number so tight to the existing 8-9.5 we have ....
> 
> Extra Point --how can you assign bonus points ??? Things that could take a resort OVER the top ... for these resorts that earn it ...
> -bonus points could be ..... 1/10 of 1 point for ....
> -pool temp at 83 or higher
> -pool attendants and /or no pool chair hogs allowed
> -extremely good pillows &/or mattresses
> -staff know you by name
> -ability to schedule villa housekeeping at specific time each day
> -(extreme) cleanliness of steam rooms & gym
> -(extreme) cleanliness of parking lots and grounds
> these are just a few == but how do you reward locations for that extra effort in a time of pressure on maintenance fee 'controls'
> 
> This is all meant in the best of intentions and to simulate conversions .... to getting a better rating system ...
> 
> Greg


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## AbelowDS

Could there be a required format for a review?  For example, a required section on PROs, a required section on CONs, a required section for a write-up?   Makes the score less relevant since my expectation for a unit is different than the next person's. (e.g., I could care less if the living room is on the small side, but someone else may mark that down because it's important to him.  Pros/Cons help me see why the low scores were given and I'd throw out those issues when reading the review.)

I do like the idea of rating different categories/attributes.  However, too many would be unweldy and not using the right ones might not be valuable.  How about separate scores for the unit, the staff/service, the property amenities, etc.  I find this helpful on II when I look at a property.  Then a reader can judge if the cons are an issue for him/her.


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## SmithOp

I agree, I'd like to see a template to assist reviewers with what the majority think is important to review.

I tend to ignore the reviews that are trip reports on what they did (went to Costco, etc), I want to know about the rooms, beds, fees, resort activities, pools, and staff.  Some of them read like a diary, not a review at all.


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## TUGBrian

I would actually like to change/add to the review input form to add some quick info boxes to be honest.

things like "was this an exchange?"  wifi available?  yadda yadda

some very simple things that people can check a yes or no to that would input that data along with the review automatically.


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## Rent_Share

GregGH said:


> in the mean time I have bought 2 more weeks to now have 9 weeks for 2014 ... guess I rate it higher than a 4 ....
> 
> Greg


 
9 weeks at FSA creates quite the MF liability, but you can bring your dog


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## Timeshare Von

Rent_Share said:


> Are you in competition with Ron as to who can BRAG the most about their holdings



HA!  Nine weeks isn't enough to brag about


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## pedro47

TUGBrian said:


> I would actually like to change/add to the review input form to add some quick info boxes to be honest.
> 
> things like "was this an exchange?"  wifi available?  yadda yadda
> 
> some very simple things that people can check a yes or no to that would input that data along with the review automatically.



Your Suggestions are excellent. Please go forward with your ideas.


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## VegasBella

GregGH said:


> There is an idea -- to 'weight' the rating by date - giving older rating diminishing weight factor ....  valid point as something great 5 years is almost ancient history in TS's ...  vs something great in the past 12 months.


Sounds like a great idea to me!



TUGBrian said:


> I would actually like to change/add to the review input form to add some quick info boxes to be honest.
> 
> things like "was this an exchange?"  wifi available?  yadda yadda
> 
> some very simple things that people can check a yes or no to that would input that data along with the review automatically.


I was going to suggest that, too. I like to be able to scan reviews quickly to find out things like that. 

My list would include things like:
free wifi
pet-friendly
heated pool
walking distance to... grocery store, restaurants, beach, etc.


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## Rent_Share

VegasBella said:


> Sounds like a great idea to me!
> pet-friendly


 
< 5 % of ALL TIME SHARES ARE PET FRIENDLY


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## Beefnot

Rent_Share said:


> < 5 % of ALL TIME SHARES ARE PET FRIENDLY



And I hope it stays that way.


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## VegasBella

Rent_Share said:


> < 5 % of ALL TIME SHARES ARE PET FRIENDLY



Which makes the accessiblity of that information all the more valuable to those who want it.


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