# The Central at 5th by Hilton Club-New Location?



## holdaer (Apr 12, 2019)

Has anyone noticed this new location on the HGVC club website?

This appears to be a new location since it's address is 12-14 East 48th Street
New York, New York 10017.

The Quin address is 101 W. 57TH STREET, NEW YORK, NEW YORK, 10019

I haven't heard any news or rumors about another location in New York.

Has anyone heard of this new location in any presentation?


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## brp (Apr 12, 2019)

Interesting. Appears to be similar to W. 57th in terms of room sizes - a series of Studio and 1BD options. Also a nice location.

I was on the site yesterday booking at W. 57th and never did scroll past to see that, but it is still in the session from yesterday 
Cheers.


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## Seagila (Apr 12, 2019)

Article says it's an HGV hotel, but it might very well be bHC.  More options in NYC is good.

Metal Facade Begins To Rise For 31-Story Hilton Hotel At 12 East 48th Street In Midtown East, Manhattan


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## JohnPaul (Apr 12, 2019)

Someone reported on this from a presentation awhile back but I didn't put much store in it.


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## CalGalTraveler (Apr 12, 2019)

We have a presentation coming up and will ask about it.  Although the location is decent in midtown, I like being only a block away from Central Park at W57, and can see Central Park out the windows from some of the higher floors.  I am certain the new building it will be very nice inside.

It's interesting that this is a new build. It sounds similar to GI with a third party developing the building and HGVC responsible for managing and selling the units.


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## dayooper (Apr 12, 2019)

Seagila said:


> *Article says it's an HGV hotel, but it might very well be bHC.*  More options in NYC is good.
> 
> Metal Facade Begins To Rise For 31-Story Hilton Hotel At 12 East 48th Street In Midtown East, Manhattan



The resort page says it's Hilton Club. It has the Hilton Club logo on the picture. https://club.hiltongrandvacations.com/en/resort/new-york/the-central-at-5th-by-hilton-club/

Makes sense as it fits the mold of the other NYC bHC properties. Those types of places must be a gold mine. They are up to 4 bHC properties (West 57th, The Residences, The Quin and Central at 5th) and then they also have The Hilton Club property as well. Lots of new properties in NYC. Hopefully will open up some availability.


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## CalGalTraveler (Apr 12, 2019)

Added this to the list of upcoming HGVC and bHC properties:

*Officially Announced*

1. Saint Philip, Barbados: HGVC @ The Crane (conversion; 2Q 2019)
2. The Quin by Hilton Club, bHC New York, New York  (conversion)
3. Cabo San Lucas, Mexico: HGVC @ Los Cabos Hilton (conversion)
4. Chicago, Illinois: Chicago HGVC (conversion; 2H 2019)
5. Ocean Tower, BI HGVC (conversion; Phase I avail now)
6. Waikiki, bHC (new build?)
7. Okinawa, Japan tbd (new build)
8. Charleston, SC, bHC (*new build*) (corrected/edited)
9. Kihei, Maui HGVC (new build; Phase I - 133 units 2020)
10. *The Central at 5th, NYC, bHC *(new build, Q1,Q2 2020)
*
Rumored*

Turtle Bay, HI: HGVC @ Turtle Bay _"rumored"_
Ambergris Caye, Belize: Mahogany Bay Resort & Beach Club @ HGVC _"rumored"_
San Francisco, CA: _"rumored"_
China: _"rumored"_


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## CalGalTraveler (Apr 12, 2019)

dayooper said:


> The resort page says it's Hilton Club. It has the Hilton Club logo on the picture. https://club.hiltongrandvacations.com/en/resort/new-york/the-central-at-5th-by-hilton-club/
> 
> Makes sense as it fits the mold of the other NYC bHC properties. Those types of places must be a gold mine. They are up to 4 bHC properties (West 57th, The Residences, The Quin and Central at 5th) and then they also have The Hilton Club property as well. Lots of new properties in NYC. Hopefully will open up some availability.



Yes, a gold mine for developers. Why sell each unit as single residential with fewer units when you can sell for 5 - 10x of the price and avoid the cost of adding kitchens for each residential unit?

Some of the demand may result from not only to tourists but to small businesses seeking to house their employees (and owners) when they visit NYC on business.  We've submitted a prorated portion of our MF to work travel when we use part of the visit for business.  Unlike the 3 night minimum, the flexibility for 1 and 2 night stays makes business usage feasible.


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## JIMinNC (Apr 13, 2019)

CalGalTraveler said:


> Added this to the list of upcoming HGVC and bHC properties:
> 
> *Officially Announced*
> 
> ...



One correction - Charleston, SC is a new build. Site is a parking lot and a former Starbucks.


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## CalGalTraveler (Apr 13, 2019)

Thanks @JIMinNC  I edited the prior post with your correction. At least I didn't call it Charlotte this time!


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## escanoe (Apr 13, 2019)

dayooper said:


> They are up to 4 bHC properties (West 57th, The Residences, The Quin and Central at 5th) and then they also have The Hilton Club property as well. Lots of new properties in NYC. Hopefully will open up some availability.



I am hoping between it and the Quin it opens up some plain ol' 1BR vanilla inventory. Sure hard to catch one on W 57th for us mere HGVCer peasants. Us Tuggers are not typical customers, but I would be looking to buy some NYC bHC property on resale if I did not think there was a good chance availability was looking up and that resale prices will likely decline more in a few years. I would be willing to pay for better access to NYC inventory and lounge access, but I don't want to rush to overpay when at some point the market will get more saturated compared to what it is today.


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## CalGalTraveler (Apr 13, 2019)

escanoe said:


> I am hoping between it and the Quin it opens up some plain ol' 1BR vanilla inventory. Sure hard to catch one on W 57th for us mere HGVCer peasants. Us Tuggers are not typical customers, but I would be looking to buy some NYC bHC property on resale if I did not think there was a good chance availability was looking up and eventually resale prices will further decline in a few years. I would be willing to pay for better access to NYC inventory and lounge access, but I don't want to rush to overpay when at some point the market will get more saturated compared to what it is today.



Short term, I would expect a lot of HGVC club trading inventory because there is unsold inventory. You can see that with NY Residences and GI in HI.  We saw that with Borgo Alle Vigne a few years ago. As these properties sell out inventory tightens.

I also expect a short term glut of resales as owners trade up which will affect resale prices. This seems to happen when new developments come online.

As units sell over time, with the high price of points, owners of bHC will tend to use their points within bHC. This will leave less inventory for Club so it will be less fluid than a normal club purchase. With the separation of bHC points and Club points in the reservation system, it makes owners scrutinize the use of those expensive points even more.

Similar to other high-end locales such as Maui, owners may find it more cost effective to either use, trade within bHC during the 75 day window, or rent out their week instead of  trading their expensive points in the HGVC system. So they will apply cheaper club resale points from Vegas for their HGVC club trades instead (that's what we and several other NYC Tuggers do) i.e. Why trade a Tesla for a Chevy, when you can trade a Yugo for a Chevy?

We would expect supply and demand to affect resale prices but there will be less impact than one would expect. Sure, there will be the usual significant drop off the developer initially as owners "take these new properties off the lot."  However, in HHV resale prices have not dropped significantly beyond the initial resale cliff even though inventory has increased with the addition of GI and Grand Waikikian. Plus resale prices at older but desireable units such as Lagoon seem to have stabilized.

NYC and Waikiki are not Vegas or Orlando - there is not a lot of land so one can expect less price elasticity than these other locations.


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## CalGalTraveler (Apr 13, 2019)

One more point contributing to price inelasticity: Supply of resales will be limited.  These will be expensive units so most will be financed. Owners cannot sell until it is paid off so supply will not hit the market for 10 or so years when the loans are fully paid. This may explain why Grand Waikikian and GI values have not fallen much beyond the initial developer cliff - there are not that many resales out there to glut the market.


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## Sandy VDH (Apr 13, 2019)

There appears to be a lot of construction in this neighborhood.


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## Cyberc (Apr 14, 2019)

JohnPaul said:


> Someone reported on this from a presentation awhile back but I didn't put much store in it.



Yes it was me. We attended an update in December and the lady informed us about it. Must admit I took it for BS info as no one else had heard about and in the last few months no additional info was provided until now. 

Looking forward for more properties hopefully it won’t devalue the current ones. 

Link to my thread: https://tugbbs.com/forums/index.php?threads/owners-update-yet-another-location-in-new-york.283063/


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## 1Kflyerguy (Apr 14, 2019)

CalGalTraveler said:


> Added this to the list of upcoming HGVC and bHC properties:
> 
> *Officially Announced*
> 
> ...



I just saw a headline that Turtle Bay is starting a major renovation.  There was no mention of HGV, so i assume nothing is imminent there.  

At one one of the investor meetings in the past year,  management was asked about areas or regions that interested them for expansion.   They again mentioned California as area prime for expansion.  No mention of San Francisco specifically, but California in general.  Lots of areas that could be interesting.

There has been no mention of China by HGV in at least a year.  My guess is that is not moving forward at this time due to several factors.  The major Chinese Insurance company that had been a major shareholder, had to sell all their HGV shares because of changes in regulations.  Couple that with the cooling of the Chinese economy and trade war concerns i doubt they move forward with that idea.  But thats just my guess.


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## dayooper (Apr 14, 2019)

1Kflyerguy said:


> I just saw a headline that Turtle Bay is starting a major renovation.  There was no mention of HGV, so i assume nothing is imminent there.
> 
> At one one of the investor meetings in the past year,  management was asked about areas or regions that interested them for expansion.   They again mentioned California as area prime for expansion.  No mention of San Francisco specifically, but California in general.  Lots of areas that could be interesting.
> 
> There has been no mention of China by HGV in at least a year.  My guess is that is not moving forward at this time due to several factors.  The major Chinese Insurance company that had been a major shareholder, had to sell all their HGV shares because of changes in regulations.  Couple that with the cooling of the Chinese economy and trade war concerns i doubt they move forward with that idea.  But thats just my guess.



I think California would be a great spot for expansion. From SF (this would be bHC, I would guess) to Napa and, if they could find an existing resort to refurbish up to HGVC standards, Lake Tahoe.


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## Cyberc (Apr 15, 2019)

I think that SF would be a great location for HGVC. 

Since I’m looking to go to LA and I can’t any timeshare locations there maybe that location would be great too. Guess there must be a reason why there aren’t any timeshares in LA at least not in hgvc and RCI. As a European looking to go the location would be great however.


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## Sandy VDH (Apr 15, 2019)

I would like more of the caribbean but not at the huge points values that the Barbados property has.  Those point values and open season pricing are crazy stupid.


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## JohnPaul (Apr 15, 2019)

dayooper said:


> I think California would be a great spot for expansion. From SF (this would be bHC, I would guess) to Napa and, if they could find an existing resort to refurbish up to HGVC standards, Lake Tahoe.



HGVC does have an affiliation with Club Donatello in downtown SF where you can use your HGVC points.   Napa allowed two timeshares (Shell Vino Bello and and Napa Riverpointe) but has been very unfriendly to anything more.  They would rather have hotel taxes.


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## CalGalTraveler (Apr 15, 2019)

I believe the Donatello is only reserved by the week which is too much time for us in SF given we live in the Bay Area. IMHO...I hope an SF HGVC is similar to the NYC properties where you can reserve a single night or two on reasonably short notice so we can avoid a long drive home after dinner or a show. Although we would still use the bulk of our bHC points in NYC, it would be nice to visit SF or other cities for short stays.

There are plenty of scenic vineyard areas in California such as Paso Robles or Sonoma County so Napa is not the only option.


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## 1Kflyerguy (Apr 16, 2019)

CalGalTraveler said:


> I believe the Donatello is only reserved by the week which is too much time for us in SF given we live in the Bay Area. IMHO...I hope an SF HGVC is similar to the NYC properties where you can reserve a single night or two on reasonably short notice so we can avoid a long drive home after dinner or a show. Although we would still use the bulk of our bHC points in NYC, it would be nice to visit SF or other cities for short stays.
> 
> There are plenty of scenic vineyard areas in California such as Paso Robles or Sonoma County so Napa is not the only option.



Living in San Jose, I agree an option in SF would be a nice addition.

I agree there are lots of scenic places in California.  Monterey or Carmel would great locations as well.   As for wine tasting, i think our current favorite location is Paso Robles. However its pretty rustic and small town feel.  Not sure well an HGV or other timeshare resort would fit in.    There are not many chain hotels in Paso, mostly local independently owned properties.


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## brp (Apr 16, 2019)

1Kflyerguy said:


> Living in San Jose, I agree an option in SF would be a nice addition.
> 
> I agree there are lots of scenic places in California.  Monterey or Carmel would great locations as well.   As for wine tasting, i think our current favorite location is Paso Robles. However its pretty rustic and small town feel.  Not sure well an HGV or other timeshare resort would fit in.    There are not many chain hotels in Paso, mostly local independently owned properties.



Our favorite for wine tasting is Santa Cruz Mountains, although Paso is also very nice.

We just spent 4 days in Paso late last year at a lovely B&B. I agree that it is just not the right setting to HGVC. A Hilton hotel could work, but not a timeshare. Just the wrong feel. SF, though, would be great, with short-stay option.

Cheers.


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## escanoe (Apr 19, 2019)

Maybe it has been there, but I just noticed today the Quin is listed (not bookable online) now when you check NYC availability. Don't see any listing of detailed room types or point values. (I expect point values line up with other bHC NYC properties, I mostly wonder if they will have any regular 1BRs.) It says sales are projected to start in the 4th quarter.


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## Nomad420 (Apr 24, 2019)

Just got back from HCNY and found the place to still be very nice.  Got the 1BR suite which was very nice.  Lounge is "adequate" but not as nice as 57th st.  As many know this place is more "hotel like" with daily room service and turn down service.  I was immediately hit numerous time to take the "one hour session"  where they were going to give us an "exclusive update" on the "NEW" property which is probably what this thread is about.  However neither I nor my wife wanted anything to do with it.  When I told them that I only wanted to speak with a rep regarding issues I had with purchase, point usage, and misrepresentation of the product things got very cold.  They very quickly stated they were busy and they gave me a 15 minute window on Friday afternoon which did not work.  Basically unless you want to possibly but something they don't want anything to do with you is the what I experienced.  My emails went unanswered where up until that point they were sending me literally several emails a day.  As previously mentioned I wouldn't buy another Hilton property retail, developer, or otherwise now.  The only good thing is we did like our stay at HCNY and will probably continue to use at this point.


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## dayooper (Apr 24, 2019)

Nomad420 said:


> Just got back from HCNY and found the place to still be very nice.  Got the 1BR suite which was very nice.  Lounge is "adequate" but not as nice as 57th st.  As many know this place is more "hotel like" with daily room service and turn down service.  I was immediately hit numerous time to take the "one hour session"  where they were going to give us an "exclusive update" on the "NEW" property which is probably what this thread is about.  However neither I nor my wife wanted anything to do with it.  When I told them that I only wanted to speak with a rep regarding issues I had with purchase, point usage, and misrepresentation of the product things got very cold.  They very quickly stated they were busy and they gave me a 15 minute window on Friday afternoon which did not work.  Basically unless you want to possibly but something they don't want anything to do with you is the what I experienced.  My emails went unanswered where up until that point they were sending me literally several emails a day.  As previously mentioned I wouldn't buy another Hilton property retail, developer, or otherwise now.  The only good thing is we did like our stay at HCNY and will probably continue to use at this point.



Sorry you had a bad experience. I can definitely see how your salesman turned you off to the system. Sounds like enjoyed HCNY. Hopefully, they can change the system to include other properties. Might be a long shot, but you never know.


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## Talent312 (Apr 24, 2019)

Is sounds like you made the classic mistake of thinking that a sales-weasel was a human being who would be interested in listening to your issues, even if he stood no chance of making any money off you.

I side with the sales-weasel on this one... It's one thing for marketing to lure someone to an "update" with candy (it's what they do). But complaints only serve to shut 'em down... It doesn't put food on the table.
.


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## brp (Apr 24, 2019)

Talent312 said:


> Is sounds like you made the classic mistake of thinking that a sales-weasel was a human being who would be interested in listening to your issues, even if he stood no chance of making any money off you. I side with the sales-weasel on this one...
> 
> .



While I'm not the biggest fan of sales people, this seems unduly harsh. These folks are human beings trying to make a living. While some do do things that are less professional and quite weasily, we've met quite a few who are not. In the end, there is nothing that they can do about these complaints, so it would be a waste of both their time and the customer's for them to engage on this. To view thinking of them as human as a miskate does not seem fair to me.

Cheers.


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## Nomad420 (Apr 24, 2019)

Talent312 said:


> Is sounds like you made the classic mistake of thinking that a sales-weasel was a human being who would be interested in listening to your issues, even if he stood no chance of making any money off you.
> 
> I side with the sales-weasel on this one... It's one thing for marketing to lure someone to an "update" with candy (it's what they do). But complaints only serve to shut 'em down... It doesn't put food on the table.
> .


Certainly was not going to result in a sale and I doubt I am changing anyone's mind on the use of points in the HC.  I was just trying to gather information and wasn't particularly surly with them at all.  I even said I need not speak with "sales".    I suspect had I (and of course my wife) gone to the "update" session we could have asked many of the questions I had but I wanted to be up front with them (mistake).   For those interested they moved a sales office apparently onto I believe the 45 floor of the Hilton one floor below I believe the Residences.   Not sure what the "new" offering was as I didn't go.  The sales office on 57th street is still there as well.  I suspect all new properties in NYC are going to be HC's and hence will be restricted in use of points from HGVC properties but I could not get the answer to that while in NY. Personally I think this issue has been misleading at a minimum and more appropriately a rip off to other HGVC property owners.  This "club with in a club" thing to me doesn't ring true but it is what it is for now.


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## brp (Apr 24, 2019)

Nomad420 said:


> I suspect all new properties in NYC are going to be HC's and hence will be restricted in use of points from HGVC properties but I could not get the answer to that while in NY. Personally I think this issue has been misleading at a minimum and more appropriately a rip off to other HGVC property owners.  This "club with in a club" thing to me doesn't ring true but it is what it is for now.



One things to be clear about (and I think it has been clear elsewhere, but seems less so here): All of the bHC properties *except* HCNY are limited to other HGVC points, but not restricted. All others allow people from other bHC as well as HGVC into the inventory, albeit with a window reduced from other HGVC uses. Only HCNY is truly restricted to use by other HGVC points.

Again, I believe that this was clear elsewhere, but doesn't seem clear here.

Cheers.


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## Nomad420 (Apr 24, 2019)

brp said:


> One things to be clear about (and I think it has been clear elsewhere, but seems less so here): All of the bHC properties *except* HCNY are limited to other HGVC points, but not restricted. All others allow people from other bHC as well as HGVC into the inventory, albeit with a window reduced from other HGVC uses. Only HCNY is truly restricted to use by other HGVC points.
> 
> Again, I believe that this was clear elsewhere, but doesn't seem clear here.
> 
> Cheers.


Sorry I should have been clear, I was referring to NYC bHC properties, I realize the other bHCs allow limited use of points for booking.  Perhaps I am wrong but I thought  the Residences in NYC were also "restricted" to use with HGVC points.  And again I don't know what the intention is with the "new" property but I am suspicious that it will at a minimum have very limited HGVC point use.


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## CalGalTraveler (Apr 24, 2019)

We attended a presentation in NYC. I found the update worthwhile and I find the NYC HGVC reps to be reasonable (will give a full report of what I learned later). However I agree that they are not the right personnel in HGVC to speak with regarding your HCNY issues because they are not empowered to address your concerns.

What is your goal from the meeting?

1) To have them take your unit back? (unlikely at full price but they will give you something if you contact the buyback (not the sales) office)
2) Exchange to another club point accessible property like W57?
3) To vent so they change their sales practices?
4) Other?

If you would like to pursue #2, I learned that the Florida telesales office does not have the overhead, has access to all of the inventory, and can cut more lucrative deals. To trade your unit into a club accessible property such as W57 perhaps that might be a good place to go and perhaps they could take your unit as trade in and waive the min upgrade so it is an even swap given your concerns.

You might be able to check around TUG for a VP contact to approve a waiver in #2.

It's good that you are using your property. I am trying to suggest some constructive ideas to make your ownership work better for you.


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## brp (Apr 24, 2019)

Nomad420 said:


> Sorry I should have been clear, I was referring to NYC bHC properties, I realize the other bHCs allow limited use of points for booking.  Perhaps I am wrong but I thought  the Residences in NYC were also "restricted" to use with HGVC points.  And again I don't know what the intention is with the "new" property but I am suspicious that it will at a minimum have very limited HGVC point use.



Yes, you are incorrect. Only HCNY is restricted. The others (Residences and W. 57th) allow HGVC use with relatively short windows. I would expect the same of the new property inasmuch as HCNY is the oldest and all of the newer ones have gone with the "allowed, but time-limited" model.

Cheers.


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## Nomad420 (Apr 24, 2019)

Love to hear your report back on the "update".  As for as "goals", all I wanted was some answers to several specific questions I had about the point use between bHC and HGVC.  As indicated above there is confusion about this for sure.  I thought about your exchange question but have pretty much been told it would be a loose loose situation and really not looking for that as I don't wish to sink any further cash into bHC/HGVC.  As far as "venting", well I am beyond that and figure what ever I say would go in one ear and out the other so I have no false pretenses that this would do anything.  I plan on using what I have for now and into the foreseeable future but will obviously not add any HGVC properties.  For now it is what it is but it would have been nice to have a Vegas property with the flexibility of using those points at HCNY.  I realize I can do the opposite (HCNY points in Vegas) but for my purposes that is less appealing and less likely.  One option is to purchase more HCNY property retail if it could be obtained on the cheap but that also has its drawbacks (high MFs).  Also, the good news/bad news is HCNY property value, even retail,  is holding up pretty well so getting it "on the cheap" is not likely (at least for now).


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## CalGalTraveler (Apr 24, 2019)

@Nomad420 that is helpful information. You have nothing to lose by asking but you will need someone high up in the organization to approve it to resolve your customer satisfaction issues.  Sales people are not empowered do it and won't get paid for it so no incentive.


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## tombanjo (May 12, 2019)

Per recent presentation, Central is being sold at pre-construction prices, which are less than current w57th prices. The lower end units are sold out for this phase. They are "using the plans" from 57th street, so rooms will be the same. I guess the good news is there is a lot of continued interest and developer sales in NYC. So us lowly resale owners should be ok. If there is high demand for retail price, resale prices will have support at least at present levels. Once the availability of Quin and Central rooms comes online, us "classic" owners might have more availability. Since I am new, not sure if the Residences caused any disturbances in the ether in terms of price and availability.


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## CalGalTraveler (May 12, 2019)

@tombanjo Thanks for the update. Did they provide you with the MF on the units? We were quoted at early construction stage pricing a platinum studio Penthouse 14,400 pts $129k with a $3,800 MF; A one bedroom gold with 14,500 points is in the $79k range.  Didn't get quotes for smaller units perhaps because sold out.

The building is a doppelganger for W57 but there will be retail on the bottom two floors. Building doesn't appear to have views and IMO W57 is in a better location near Central Park on Billionaires Row.

We were told HGVC thought they were going to have more W57/Central at 5th type buildings constructed throughout NYC but the 2008 crash occurred. They are now regaining steam with new properties built by third parties and are ramping up the NYC sales offices = more presentation offers.

Here is the points chart we received:

*The Central at 5th*

*Platinum 7-28, 35 - 52*
Studio                           5250
Studio Plus                    7200
Studio Premier               9300
Studio Premier Plus     12,600
Studio Penthouse        14,400

1 Bdrm Premier          16,800
1 Bdrm Penthouse      21,000


*Gold  1 - 6, 29 - 34
*
Studio                         3250
Studio Plus                  5100
Studio Premier             6300
Studio Premier Plus      8700
Studio Penthouse      10,500

1 Bdrm Premier         11,600
1 Bdrm Penthouse     14,500
*
*


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## tombanjo (May 12, 2019)

I didn't get MF numbers as it was obvious there was no way I was buying anything and the lower priced units were sold out. I did get my elevated gift certificates, and most likely I will never be asked to a presentation again.


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## CalGalTraveler (May 12, 2019)

They seem to have added another "Studio" tier to this building but it has the same number of points required as W57 "Studio Plus" units.

They also indicated that Central at 5th sales were strong. FWIW,  Although reps lips were moving, I find the NYC reps to be more professional and informative; they don't play the stupid sales games that we have experienced in other sales offices. Perhaps because they are offering a more cost effective alternative to buyers compared to a full NYC condo?

I actually thought they were going to sell us on the Quin so I was surprised when then spoke about Central at 5th. Here is what we learned about the Quin:

*Quin*

1) The Quin at Central Park (across the street from W57) will be a different product. It is targeted for an upscale buyer who is willing to drop at least $250k or more on a unit. Apparently there are a number of owners at W57 who own several studios and have paid in $125k on their purchases to stay multiple weeks (or perhaps need multiple rooms for family.) The Quin will appeal to such buyers because adding another $125k to upgrade on Billionaires Row is still much less expensive than buying a similarly located NYC condo. IMO...I wonder if Quin will be treated like HCNY with no club access. Or will be will be longer-term fractionals instead of weekly timeshares for that price.


2) Because of the price tag, Quin will be rolled out more slowly - floor by floor and unit by unit. Don't expect a surge of units available for club.


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## CalGalTraveler (May 12, 2019)

Here's another tidbit from the visit:

1) *AirBnB's and VRBO's are now illegal in NYC. *So if you rent in the future in a separate unit from someone's home, the person renting to you may be breaking the law and could put your vacation at risk. However this law is being legally challenged in the courts: https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/03/nyregion/nyc-airbnb-rentals.html *Bottom line: if you AirBnB in NYC check the latest on this law.*


2) *If the AirBnB ban prevails, NYC timeshare owners are excepted from the NYC law. *Timeshare owners can rent out their unit because timeshares are not considered to be displacing rental units for residents (its more like a hotel).  This is a positive development for timeshare owners as demand will be higher without competition from AirBnB/VRBO units.


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## Tamaradarann (May 12, 2019)

1Kflyerguy said:


> I just saw a headline that Turtle Bay is starting a major renovation.  There was no mention of HGV, so i assume nothing is imminent there.
> 
> At one one of the investor meetings in the past year,  management was asked about areas or regions that interested them for expansion.   They again mentioned California as area prime for expansion.  No mention of San Francisco specifically, but California in general.  Lots of areas that could be interesting.
> 
> There has been no mention of China by HGV in at least a year.  My guess is that is not moving forward at this time due to several factors.  The major Chinese Insurance company that had been a major shareholder, had to sell all their HGV shares because of changes in regulations.  Couple that with the cooling of the Chinese economy and trade war concerns i doubt they move forward with that idea.  But thats just my guess.



An interesting point about Turtle Bay is that the new Vice President and General Manager of Turtle Bay is Jerry Gibson, who was Area Vice President of all Hilton Hawaiian Operations including the timeshares on Oahu and Hawaii Island.


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## jehb2 (May 12, 2019)

Is Turtle Bay still remote.  Whenever we use to drive by it seemed out in the middle of nowhere.


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## brp (May 12, 2019)

CalGalTraveler said:


> Here's another tidbit from the visit:
> 
> 1) *AirBnB's and VRBO's are now illegal in NYC. *So if you rent in the future in a separate unit from someone's home, the person renting to you may be breaking the law and could put your vacation at risk. However this law is being legally challenged in the courts: https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/03/nyregion/nyc-airbnb-rentals.html *Bottom line: if you AirBnB in NYC check the latest on this law.*



This has been the case for some number of years now- a decade or more. A good friend had a business in New York where they rented apartments on a monthly basis and rented them out short-term for people who wanted that instead of standard hotels. They were not able to do this in NYC as of quite a while back and where in Jersey City, which had spectacular views of Manhattan.

Cheers.


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## Nomad420 (May 12, 2019)

Not wanting to beat a dead horse and some of my question may not have answers to but here they are:
Will Central at 5th be HGVC (not byHC) and will they accept all points from all other properties (with restrictions of course)?
The Residence Club, does it accept points from all other HGVC properties and what is the booking window?
Is The Quinn also to be a HGVC or byHC property or something completely different?
Having recently visited the Residence Club I was pretty impressed but it was indeed pricey with little to nothing now present on the resale market fwiw.


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## CalGalTraveler (May 12, 2019)

All NYC is bHC. There will be a 60 day club window. However I got the impression Quin may be something completely different akin to HCNY or a fractional akin to the Ritz Carlton Residences - but this is speculation at this point because they haven't started selling yet.    One thing we do know is that it won't be HGVC Club.

We were told that bHC is driven by the average daily rate of the hotels in the area to support the 50:1 HHonors conversion. Chicago could not consistently meet that test. NYC passes that test handily as will other major cities such as SF.


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## Cyberc (May 22, 2019)

CalGalTraveler said:


> @tombanjo Thanks for the update. Did they provide you with the MF on the units? We were quoted at early construction stage pricing a platinum studio Penthouse 14,400 pts $129k with a $3,800 MF; A one bedroom gold with 14,500 points is in the $79k range.  Didn't get quotes for smaller units perhaps because sold out.
> 
> The building is a doppelganger for W57 but there will be retail on the bottom two floors. Building doesn't appear to have views and IMO W57 is in a better location near Central Park on Billionaires Row.
> 
> ...



Those point requirements are insane, who can afford prices like that? I mean if $130k is a drop in the bucket for a week in a studio, I would assume you could afford to buy a real apartment in NYC. 

The more we see of these pricing the more I like my West57 

What I dont understand is that the market for a studio, plus and premier is much bigger compared to the market for the most expensive units ie Penthouses. Why build the expensive ones as its more difficult to get rid of them afterwards?


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## CalGalTraveler (May 22, 2019)

Cyberc said:


> Those point requirements are insane, who can afford prices like that? I mean if $130k is a drop in the bucket for a week in a studio, I would assume you could afford to buy a real apartment in NYC.
> 
> The more we see of these pricing the more I like my West57
> 
> What I dont understand is that the market for a studio, plus and premier is much bigger compared to the market for the most expensive units ie Penthouses. Why build the expensive ones as its more difficult to get rid of them afterwards?



IMO...some folks want the prestige of saying they "own a NYC penthouse." NYC buyers are competing with the world for limited real estate. Not just competing against locals, and this drives up values. I think you would need to spend $1 - 5 million to get equivalent condo on the same street in Manhattan. Remember that W57 is on Billionaire's row. It's all relative.


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## Cyberc (May 23, 2019)

CalGalTraveler said:


> IMO...some folks want the prestige of saying they "own a NYC penthouse." NYC buyers are competing with the world for limited real estate. Not just competing against locals, and this drives up values. I think you would need to spend $1 - 5 million to get equivalent condo on the same street in Manhattan. Remember that W57 is on Billionaire's row. It's all relative.


I guess your right. 

It will be interesting to see how much their ownerships will be worth when new owners at these properties tries to sell in a few years.


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## 1Kflyerguy (May 23, 2019)

CalGalTraveler said:


> IMO...some folks want the prestige of saying they "own a NYC penthouse." NYC buyers are competing with the world for limited real estate. Not just competing against locals, and this drives up values. I think you would need to spend $1 - 5 million to get equivalent condo on the same street in Manhattan. Remember that W57 is on Billionaire's row. It's all relative.



Its probably a safe assumption that many retail buyers finance their purchases.  Its much easier to finance a $130K purchase than $1-5 million purchase, at least for me it would be.


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## Cyberc (May 23, 2019)

1Kflyerguy said:


> Its probably a safe assumption that many retail buyers finance their purchases.  Its much easier to finance a $130K purchase than $1-5 million purchase, at least for me it would be.



Your right. Unless you take a mortgage against your house you will pay a high interest rate and with a $130k loan you will have some hefty payments.


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## escanoe (May 29, 2019)

Ouch! I see they have posted the point chart for the Central at 5th by Hilton Club. The lowest point value one bedroom is the same as the penthouse at W 57th.


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## escanoe (May 29, 2019)

We traded into the the Manhattan Club (TMC) through RCI for Memorial Day weekend, and the kids loved it. I will not be complaining about TMC daily fees in the future. If my family of four goes to the Central at 5th, I think we will be looking to book two studios as close as we can get versus a 1 bedroom.


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