# Vacation Club Points Dud So Far!



## Cobra1950 (Aug 1, 2014)

As a long term legacy owner of 3 weeks (2 at Summittwatch and 1 at Legends Edge), who joined the VCP program before the cut off in 2010, I have to say so far the Points Program is a *dud!:*crash:
    I have used points on a Caribbean cruise and found out that the fees I had to pay for taxes and port fees were in excess of what I would have paid if I booked directly with the cruise line.  Even more extreme case occurred when I tried to book a Greek Island Cruise to tie in with a Grand Circle Tour in Europe in 2015.  I ended up booking directly with cruise line on that one, forgetting Marriott as nearly $2000 in fees were requested.
    In the last two months I tried to reserve Summittwatch for last Feb. 2015 ski week in a Villa only (there are only two of us).  Absolutely no movement to date from Marriott.  Call to them was maybe availability after Sept. 30, maybe not.  Only weeks available late March.  Offered alternate start date as well, no luck.  Yes I know it is prime ski season there, have owned Christmas Week for 15 years there.
     I will give it a while longer but so far VCP points are a complete misfire, am only thankful I purchased bare minimum points to gain entry


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## Fasttr (Aug 1, 2014)

I think most would agree, once you go outside the core usage (MVC resorts) and get into the Explorer Collection offerings (cruises, etc), the value becomes iffy at best.

Also, not surprised a prime ski week 7 months out would be a tough get.

Curious why you purchased additional points rather than simply enrolling your existing weeks into the DC program and checking out the system with those points before deciding to purchase more.  

Hopefully your experience improves over time.


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## dougp26364 (Aug 1, 2014)

As mentioned, nearly anytime you go outside a resort stay you're wasting money. I look at those options ONLY when I have no other use for my points. There have been some rare exceptions I've seen but they are very rare. 

A lot of those prime ski season weeks were sold as event weeks or that season itself was exrememly expensive. I know one resort we own at charges in excess of $100,000 for a ski season week and even more for a fixed ski season week. I can't imagine o many who have paid that sort of money for a resort ski week to anxious to exchange. Thus no availability. 

In general we've had good success with DC points. Our expectations have either been lower or more realistic. We don't listen to the salesman when they tell us all the great , expensive and/or difficult exchanges and trips wel'll,be able to book just because we have points.  Availability won't change that much and MVCI will always look to turn a profit on any booking outside the DC. 

So far we've booked a February week at Canyon Villas, a March ocean front week at Oceana Palm. And various nightly stays in Branson and Breckenridge. The two weekly bookings were likely more difficult exchanges through the weekly system but not as unlikely as a February ski week. 

I guess it all comes down to expectations and what is or is not a realistic view of what's possible. Which is why TUG can be helpful in educating us as to what is or is not realistic and what can be possible but requires more patience and or a back up plan.


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## tiel (Aug 1, 2014)

We own at Mountaiside, and our preferred week has always been the last week in February.  It's been hard to get, even as an owner, at 12 months out, for many years.  Although I don't know the numbers, I am guessing most of the inventory there and Summitwatch was sold as weeks.  So I am not surprised there is no availability at this point in the internal exchange system.  I hope something shows up for you, but it may take a while.

Regarding the non-resort use of points, it's not a good deal...but, if it's something you really want to do, and you are looking to perhaps reduce your cash outlay by paying for part of the cost with points, OR, you have no other way to use your some expiring points, you may find there is value to you. You are paying for the flexibility to even have these options.  But in general, they are not good deals if you look at total costs vs. just cash outlay.  And sometimes they are not good deals if you look at just cash outlay.


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## jont (Aug 1, 2014)

I like the concept of being able to use you points for other non TS stays. In theory, it makes a lot of sense.  It is IMHO unfortunate that the points requirements set by Marriott are way to high to be of any value however. We tried one of the Explorer options in DC early on but did not find it to be of any value. I would have been cheaper to pay cash or use rewards points. For us, the best value of points are for short stays at TS properties or to add on to an existing reservation.


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## bazzap (Aug 1, 2014)

jont said:


> I like the concept of being able to use you points for other non TS stays. In theory, it makes a lot of sense.  It is IMHO unfortunate that the points requirements set by Marriott are way to high to be of any value however. We tried one of the Explorer options in DC early on but dud not find it to be of any value. I would have been cheaper to pay cash or use rewards points. For us, the best value of points are for short stays at TS properties or to add on to an existing reservation.


I agree the best value for using DC Points is for short stays or to add on to an existing reservation.
I would also include, when electing Points from an enrolled week with high Points allocation, for longer stays in resorts requiring relatively fewer Points, especially when combined with shoulder season reservations and/or smaller accommodation compared to your home weeks.


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## jont (Aug 1, 2014)

*Different Results*

It's funny, I was recently thinking about making a post about the use of points but with positive results.
Since 2010 here is what we have been able to do with Points:
2012 Ocean Point 1 nite  add on.......................325pts
2012 Custom House 1 nite to see the Red Sox.....325 pts
2012 Ocean Watch dec 4 nites golfing getaway...200pts
2011 Ocean Watch aug 2 nites stop over ..........550 pts
2015 Harbor Pointe HHI 5 nites next Easter.........500pts

total:                                       13 nites for 1900 points 

In addition we have also:
reserved a  2011  summer week at Barony and used
reserved a  2012 summer week at Frenchmans cove and rented out for 1.65xMFs
reserved a 2014 summer week at Monarch and have rented out foe 1.75x MFs
We have also tried a explorer weekend in Wash DC ( not a wise use)

I have mostly used my own legacy points which avg about .35cents per point but I have also rented and rented out points on GregT's site.
Overall, I would have to say that the DC has been a very positive enhancement to our ownership and has enabled us to do things not possible  under the traditional weeks usage.A lot of this has been made possible from the sage advice and experiences of my fellow tuggers.


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## Fasttr (Aug 1, 2014)

jont said:


> It's funny, I was recently thinking about making a post about the use of points but with positive results.
> Since 2010 here is what we have been able to do with Points:
> 2012 Ocean Point 1 nite  add on.......................325pts
> 2012 Custom House 1 nite to see the Red Sox.....325 pts
> ...



Under $75 a night even using a rental rate of $0.50/pt., for some pretty nice places.  Gotta luv it!!


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## bazzap (Aug 1, 2014)

jont said:


> It's funny, I was recently thinking about making a post about the use of points but with positive results.
> Since 2010 here is what we have been able to do with Points:
> 2012 Ocean Point 1 nite  add on.......................325pts
> 2012 Custom House 1 nite to see the Red Sox.....325 pts
> ...


A great return, which proves it can be done.
I think you have set a real challenge for someone to try to match or improve this.
It certainly shows it is worth the effort though.


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## GregT (Aug 1, 2014)

jont said:


> It's funny, I was recently thinking about making a post about the use of points but with positive results.
> Since 2010 here is what we have been able to do with Points:
> 2012 Ocean Point 1 nite  add on.......................325pts
> 2012 Custom House 1 nite to see the Red Sox.....325 pts
> ...



John, 

Thank you for putting this in -- this is a good demonstration of real world experience with points, and does show the power of points, both individually and in combination with your legacy week reservations.

Best,

Greg


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## mjm1 (Aug 1, 2014)

John, good post.  Thanks for sharing your experiences.

Our experience with the DC program has also been good.  We exchanged for points on our Desert Springs weeks for 2013 and got 8 nights on Hilton Head at Sunset Pointe, 2 nights at Timberlodge, 2 nights at MFC and 1 night at Ko Olina which was added to our owndership week there. We rented out our 2014 points and have used our 2015 points for a week at MOC new towers (1BR).

Overall, we are very pleased with the program. Enough so, that we recently bought some Trust points on the resale market.

Mike


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## BocaBoy (Aug 2, 2014)

Cobra1950 said:


> I tried to book a Greek Island Cruise to tie in with a Grand Circle Tour in Europe in 2015.  I ended up booking directly with cruise line on that one, forgetting Marriott as* nearly $2000 in fees were requested.*


We have cruised for well over 200 nights and even on our 2-month cruise around the Pacific the fees for 2 people were not even close to this amount.  What fees were these?  I am not saying you are wrong, but I am skeptical.  Did this $2000 include cancellation insurance or stateroom upgrades?  What cruise line?


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## taffy19 (Aug 2, 2014)

Using DC points is a nice option to have when exchanging in II no longer worked for us.

We elected points for our 2015 week and got 13 12 nights in return where we wanted to stay in the first place.

6 nights (all we needed) at the MOC in a 1 BR ocean view condo in March 2014.
5 nights at the Kauai Lagoons in a 3 BR ocean view condo in September 2014.
1 night at the MOC in an oceanfront studio next April just to be at our own resort at the end of our vacation rather than miss it completely plus I have used up all my 2015 points that way. 

We uptraded and downtraded but we still got the locations where we wanted to be and that is great!


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## n777lt (Aug 2, 2014)

My husband is the one who was enamored of the DC points, because he liked the idea of using them for tours, but we've been disappointed with Collette, and I expect that we'll use our Premier Plus status and annual points just to add on snowbird weeks and escape the winter here (or to rent out what we can't use).

I don't remember why or how, but we ended up with a boatload of DC points to use up before 12/31/14...and we already have lots of work travel and 2 Orlando weeks booked at the end of December already!  We had enought to add on 3 or even 4 more Florida weeks depending on property and unit size (and there was availability, to my surprise) but we decided because of work locations to do a week at Shadow Ridge and a week with an Explorer Package in Taos. I'll plan better in the future, but I'm still learning the ropes (and was too busy traveling this year! <g>) I agree that MVCI weeks look like the best use of the points right now.


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## jerseyfinn (Aug 3, 2014)

Marriott has always been dodgy when it comes to "full disclosure" about the DC program. So let's have some TUG full disclosure along with usage *context *in lieu of numbers which can made to tell one narrative and diminish another. Remember that not all legacy owners are fully immersed in TUG-think and not all legacy folks want to dig deep into strategy. Remember that Marriott sells this product with smiles and assurances and the days of sales people being upfront about strategy is diminishing ( though not entirely extinct ). 

Methinks that Cobra made a decent decision to enroll their weeks but perhaps should have asked more questions about strategy. Then again they may have. A better question to ask is if Marriott or their smiley-faced sales force pointed this potential deficiency out to Cobra. I suspect not, hence Cobra's intense dissatisfaction when they attempt to utilize the DC program.  Cobra is hissing about the hidden fees and extra costs they encounter when attempting to utilize their DC points outside of the Marriott program. As accurately pointed out here, this is probably not an advantageous way to utilize one's enrolled weeks. I would also suggest to Cobra to utilize their points within the MVC resort umbrella and to try to do so as early as possible.

As to the "numbers", let's put that into proper context. First off, most enrolled owners already know that Marriott creates a skim that averages 15-20% when an enrolled owner converts a week into DC points. The result is a platinum Ocean Pointe week fetches @ 4250 DC points for a week but over 4700 DC points are required for a week's stay in the same unit during the same season. Likewise my Ocean Palms week fetches me 5100 DC points, but 5900 DC points are needed for a week's stay. So the first idea to see here is that enrolling and converting to DC points is not a good strategy if one wants a straight up week for a week exchange.

That said, one can indeed *leverage *their legacy week into something more useful ( and potentially more powerful ) if they are willing to *trade down* in terms of season and unit size. To put those numbers into proper perspective: at Ocean Pointe, 325 DC Points is a per night cost for a *Sunday- Thursday* stay in a *one bedroom* villa during what we used to call platinum season <excepting President's week >. Who might do this? A couple who does not need two bedrooms or are simply adding a couple of extra days to extend a stay. Similarly, one can *season-shift* from a high season stay to a low season stay and very likely have enough DC points for a one week stay. A similar form of strategy taking a one bedroom unit in lieu of a two bedroom can add more total nights stay than if one books their legacy 7 day two bedroom stay. 

So Cobra, here is some context for you to sit down and ponder as you try to find a better way utilize your enrolled weeks. You have made a decent decision to enroll, but IMO only because Marriott left no choice for legacy owners who sat on the fence. As to Marriott and the DC program in general. It is what it is . . . . a decent deal for a multi week enrolled legacy owner who figures out how to strategize and a *bad decision* by a non-timeshare walk-in from off the street who falls for the sales pitch to spend over $30K to get sufficient VC points to actually gain value from points versus simply paying cash as they go to stay at a resort. Then again this is what business is all about; convincing people they need something which they may not need. 

That said, my wife and I are doing fine with our enrolled weeks because we have learned how to strategize with our DC points.  But we are also no illusion that as legacy week owners, we no longer trust Marriott because this entire DC program is all about the fine print. And the fine print leaves the door wide open for Marriott to change things with a snap of the fingers. Marriott has simply bet that time is on their side ( a good Rolling Stone's song as well ). That fuzzy logic between different point pools is Marriott's escape hatch when/if retail sales of VC points generates sufficient retail inertia by which we legacy owners get in Marriott's way. The good news is that I doubt this will happen on a system-wide basis, but rather at specific resorts as the VC program is all about inventory and competition for that inventory. Then again, this could give Marriott incentive to purchase back weeks to meet their inventory demand needs, not such a bad thing since Marriott killed off the resale market and leave all legacy folks holding the bag.

So Cobra, figure out how to strategize and leverage your enrolled weeks. The MVC product itself remains a good thing for destination travel people. The down side is Marriott abandoned it's ethos when they implement the program and you've gotta learn to hold your nose and keep your eyes open while you enjoy your resort stays.

barry


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## Ralph Sir Edward (Aug 4, 2014)

I agree with jerseyfinn, in general, but sometimes you get to weasel out a bargain...

I was gifted a week at Royal Palms in hurricane season (Sept - Oct). Not being tied to a school schedule, I found out at the DC presentation that the points value for the May shoulder was less than what I was being offered for hurricanes season. So that is what I do. A week for week swap via DC points, with enough points to get MGV instead every few years with the excess points from the swap.

But that is just an isolated situation....


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## Cobra1950 (Aug 4, 2014)

Well basically what I seem to be reading here is that many of the responders here feel they are getting a good deal using points if they:
1.  Use only for timeshares as Explorer items will rarely be of merit financially, as I agree
2.  Best to use Points for non prime weeks and do it 12 months ahead, while Marriott had heavily used the sales promise that VCP could easily be used for nice, flexible vacations without the hassle or time wait of II trades.
   This is in spite of the Marriott spiel that their use provides a very simple to arrange and get decent weeks and quick reservations in their system.  NOTHING in their VCPoints books listing resorts and points requirements lists anything along the lines of complexity outlined in some of the responses to get even the poorest of weeks.
    In answer to one persons question of what cruise line it was, it was Princess, but I have no reason to believe it does not apply to others as when I discussed it with Marriott they acted like it was a non event that they really did not want to discuss.
    So, going forward, we will trade our weeks as previously done with II and use what Points we receive annually on an extra night or two someplace and not worry about using them as planned


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## DB-Wis (Aug 5, 2014)

Cobra1950 said:


> . . . So, going forward, we will trade our weeks as previously done with II and *use what Points we receive annually *on an extra night or two someplace and not worry about using them as planned



I'm confused -- what points do you "receive annually"?


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## SueDonJ (Aug 5, 2014)

DB-Wis said:


> I'm confused -- what points do you "receive annually"?



In his first post the OP says he made a minimal Points purchase (although I'm confused about the "to gain entry" because it's never been a requirement to purchase Points in order to be able to enroll Weeks.)


> I will give it a while longer but so far VCP points are a complete misfire, am only thankful I purchased bare minimum points to gain entry


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## Cobra1950 (Aug 5, 2014)

Ok, my understanding was to qualify for the VCP point program one had to make a "minimum purchase" of points, which in 2010 was 1000 points after some discussion with Marriott who wanted, of course, more, paid for at about $9.50 each (do not remember to the penny).
     My main reason to enroll the weeks was to "update" the weeks so that spur of the moment vacations could be accomplished by my kids (who both work long and hard for their time off) and the idea of spur of the moment short term vacations would apply well to them) when I passed the weeks on to them.  I understood at that time that I had to buy the "minimum" number of points to be eligible to transfer the weeks.  If that was not correct it is my bad, however Marriott did not expend any effort to advise Legacy owners that they did not have to buy weeks, they could just register them, and I have not seen that comment anywhere else before and I have read TUG for some time, or so I thought
     If I am to believe what I am reading here, one can forget about any premium weeks or short term premium weeks being available via the VCP, so I should have saved the money spent and stayed with conventional II trading.


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## pipet (Aug 5, 2014)

Cobra1950 said:


> I understood at that time that I had to buy the "minimum" number of points to be eligible to transfer the weeks.  If that was not correct it is my bad, however Marriott did not expend any effort to advise Legacy owners that they did not have to buy weeks, they could just register them, and I have not seen that comment anywhere else before and I have read TUG for some time, or so I thought
> If I am to believe what I am reading here, one can forget about any premium weeks or short term premium weeks being available via the VCP, so I should have saved the money spent and stayed with conventional II trading.



Yeah, you didn't have to buy any points to enroll, but I am sure the salesperson didn't make that clear at all!  You probably didn't "need" any points but since you have them now, hopefully you can make the most of them by adding on to your weeks' stays or picking up random nights that you might want.

Getting a prime week via DC requires the same kind of diligence that you need to book a prime week at your resort. You still have to be online or on the phone right at the 13/12 month mark. DC does add some flexibility here since you can book a week at a resort that isn't your own, but it still has to be available. DC doesn't eliminate the need for advance planning at all; the salesperson clearly oversold what points can do in that regard. There really is no magic to points other than increased flexibility. 

They are great for "down trades" as has been mentioned (a high value week will net multiple low value weeks in the system), but once you get closer to what your own week is valued at, expect to be short in points due to the aforementioned skim.  The DC also allows you to request trades you can't in II, like getting a 3BR if you only have a 2BR to trade (unless you get lucky and see one in instant exchange).

As for getting short-term premium weeks, about the only time those show up is if someone cancels their reservation. It can happen, but it's a matter of getting lucky. Since you must be premier status with your weeks + points, you'll get a discounted rate if you do get lucky and find some prime time available at the last minute (premier Members gets a 25% discount on stays booked 30-days or less prior to arrival).

Some people are all unicorns and rainbows about the DC and a some really dislike it, but hopefully you'll find ways to make it useful for you. A study of the point chart will help you see what weeks you might be interested in that are big down trades in points and thus a good deal.  If DC points don't work for your plans or you are facing too much skim, you can still book your week as before to use, and like you said, you can still trade it in II. Don't forget that the II trade fees are included with your DC membership, and this includes re-trades.  You can use your bronze week and hunt for good last minute trades in II with no trade fee. Also, the point rental market is an easy way to get rid of any extra points that you can't or don't want to use.


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## SueDonJ (Aug 5, 2014)

I hate to be one of the ones to tell you but there are quite a few of us TUGgers (and probably many owners who aren't TUGgers) who enrolled our Weeks in the Destination Club - right from the day it was introduced - and haven't ever purchased DC Trust Points.  That's what an Exchange Member is - a DC Member who owns Weeks which have been enrolled.

But you're correct as far as availability of high-demand intervals - they're as difficult to get in the DC as they've always been through II or even for Owners.  It's strongly recommended that we try for those as soon as the appropriate Reservation Windows open.


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## Mamianka (Aug 5, 2014)

SueDonJ said:


> I hate to be one of the ones to tell you but there are quite a few of us TUGgers (and probably many owners who aren't TUGgers) who enrolled our Weeks in the Destination Club - right from the day it was introduced - and haven't ever purchased DC Trust Points.  That's what an Exchange Member is - a DC Member who owns Weeks which have been enrolled.
> 
> But you're correct as far as availability of high-demand intervals - they're as difficult to get in the DC as they've always been through II or even for Owners.  It's strongly recommended that we try for those as soon as the appropriate Reservation Windows open.



 We also enrolled our weeks, and some years we trade them, some years we exchange them for DC points.  Once or twice - for very good reason, since it is one of the least lucrative things to do - we exchange them for Rewards oints - hotel points.  I didi a littel math today - and althoug I have my own loony system of keeping track of what a Guest lockoff is worth (in square footage - no other way to make it work out) versus a Master lockoff, i cam up with this.  Over the last 5 year, we had 126 possible nights - help in half in Guests.  By a combination of trading weeks and using points, we got 126 nights - BUT NONE of them we in Guest units - we got ALL master-size units.  For rough figuring, i give a Master a 1.4, and a Guest, a .6.  I also used leftover points to pay insurance fees, etc. On these properties and nights, I therefore got ( in my own home-made system ) a VALUE of 174 nights - since if I paid for them or used ONLY Master units to trade like for like, that is the fair number.  But I got that 174 out of 126 - and folks will tell you, I am FAR from the sharpest pencil in the box on these matters - I just pay attention and learn, by spending time planning, and listening to  folks here.  Sadly for YOU - your first choices were to use points on things that are a POOR value - and you had salespeople that were less than generous with the TRUTH (Surprised?  We're not . . ).  We sincerely hope that you use all of us here as resources to help you ENJOY your timeshares - they are supposed to be for FUN, not a headache!.  DH and I do other things for fun besides timesharing, so for the time we devote to doing this, we are MORE than satisfied with what we are getting back.  We never go to any  kind of *informational meetings* (HAH!) anymore - I told them to put us on a PERMANENT Do NOT Call list.  THIS is the best source of info - we have nothing to sell, no ax to grind, and just do this to be helpful.  Welcome to the schoolyard!

M


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## Superchief (Aug 6, 2014)

I continue to have mostly positive experiences in using DC points. Since our daughters are now adults, we often don't need the 2nd BR so the flexibility to reserve a 1BR at a higher demand resort/season is a major advantage. As a premiere plus with both legacy and 1500 trust points, we have been able to reserve some prime resorts and times. We reserved 6 nights at Crystal Cove for Thanksgiving week (reserved in early January).

Today I was able to reserve 5 nights Labor Day week at Barony next year. Only 5 nights at Barony Ocean View were available right now (I checked up to 6 nights at Barony, Grand Ocean, and Surf Watch), but I continue to keep checking for additional nights or alternative locations/ views. My previous experiences have been that an extra night usually becomes available quickly.

I also made an exchange request through II for those same weeks/resorts. An advantage of DC is that it is easy to cancel my reservation if an exchange comes through.


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## taffy19 (Aug 6, 2014)

Cobra1950 said:


> Ok, my understanding was to qualify for the VCP point program one had to make a "minimum purchase" of points, which in 2010 was 1000 points after some discussion with Marriott who wanted, of course, more, paid for at about $9.50 each (do not remember to the penny).
> My main reason to enroll the weeks was to "update" the weeks so that spur of the moment vacations could be accomplished by my kids (who both work long and hard for their time off) and the idea of spur of the moment short term vacations would apply well to them) when I passed the weeks on to them.  I understood at that time that I had to buy the "minimum" number of points to be eligible to transfer the weeks.  If that was not correct it is my bad, however Marriott did not expend any effort to advise Legacy owners that they did not have to buy weeks, they could just register them, and I have not seen that comment anywhere else before and I have read TUG for some time, or so I thought
> If I am to believe what I am reading here, one can forget about any premium weeks or short term premium weeks being available via the VCP, so I should have saved the money spent and stayed with conventional II trading.


Two TUGgers (GregT and StevenTing) started a Vacation Point Exchange website where you can rent trust or elected points for yourself or rent them out.

Since you own trust points now, you may try to rent your points out here or rent a few more for what you need so you have something.  This is allowed as it has been mentioned by some of the honest sales people at an owner update or timeshare presentation, I read on TUG.

My worry is that, if lots of people buy very small Trust point packages and then find out how little they can do with them, they will dump them on the re-sale market and it will devalue the expensive trust point packages that new trust point owners have bought.

Will the program then change again or will it collapse?  To me, it's a slippery slope.  I hope that I am wrong here.  When you buy a re-sale week, it will always be worth a week at your resort.


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## BocaBoy (Aug 6, 2014)

jerseyfinn said:


> As to the "numbers", let's put that into proper context. First off, most enrolled owners already know that Marriott creates a skim that averages 15-20% when an enrolled owner converts a week into DC points. The result is *a platinum Ocean Pointe week fetches @ 4250 DC points for a week but over 4700 DC points are required for a week's stay in the same unit during the same season*.


This is the kind of slanted "information" that makes me want to spit.  Seven of the platinum Oecan Points weeks, including the 4 full weeks in January, require only 4225 points for the same 2BR unit, leaving you an excess of 25 DC points.  This is common among many resorts.  At my resorts you normally get enough DC points to reserve a week in the same unit and same season, but not all weeks in the season.  Your point is not without some validity, but you make it seem MUCH worse than it is.  In the Ocean Pointe case, you do better with DC points if you go in January and worse if you go in February.  I have never felt ripped off by the so-called skim because you do better or worse depending on your travel plans and needs, and that includes within the same season.  To me, it seems a reasonable trade-off for the flexibility you get, especially when you consider that you can continue to reserve your weeks as before.


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## pipet (Aug 7, 2014)

BocaBoy said:


> Your point is not without some validity, but you make it seem MUCH worse than it is.



For fixed week owners, it is often very bad (like GregT's week! plus many other examples). And although for most flex weeks, you are right in that you can theoretically reserve cheaper weeks than DC points allotted, many owners *never* traveled during those cheap weeks so in reality those owners are very conscious of the skim. It is great though if you prefer to travel in the lower-valued weeks of your season.


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## taffy19 (Aug 7, 2014)

Pipet, you can make it work, if you are flexible.  I posted about it in post #13 in our case and we also own a fixed week/unit at MM1 where GregT owns.  I am sure that he has done well himself as he know this system inside out and many other systems too.  There are many opportunities to make it work even between other timeshare brands too.

It takes time to figure it all out but there is a lot of help here on this Board.


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## bazzap (Aug 7, 2014)

It is interesting to read how differently resorts are impacted by the skim.
Generally our resorts, as others suggest, are not too badly hit and can be managed around when using Points (although, I can't readily think when or why I would elect Points and use them to book back into the same resort)
We have actually had some very good results using our Points for stays at different resorts.
St Kitts is an exception though. 
Apart from the very poor Points allocation by MF ratio anyway, there are no weeks at all that we can stay in our own season with elected Points.
The only available option is Silver September/October hurricane season, not really too appealing.
So overall we are reasonably pleased with the DC Points programme, I just wish there was greater consistency across the resorts.


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## SMB1 (Aug 7, 2014)

Points have been good to us for a few reasons.

We've added an extra night or 2 to our weeks stays.  This is really nice.  At the end of our vacations we always would say we'd like another day or two.  Now we take them.  I used to try to reserve Sat-Sat.  Now I try to get Fri-Fri or Sun-Sun, which are usually easier to get in the weeks system.  Adding a night or two is much cheaper this way.  Let the owned week "pay" for the weekend.
We've been able to get good, prime reservations with points.  2 BR MountainSide for President's week.  3BR Lakeshore townhouse for President's week. OceanWatch July/early August 3 times. 
Skim hasn't hurt us.  If we want to use our home week we don't elect points that year.  That is really the only way the skim hurts you.  If we want to go to OceanWatch in the summer why would we elect points and then not have enough to get the same week.  We've never elected for OceanWatch because we use it.  On the other hand I elected my 3800 points for our 2BR deluxe Lakeshore Reserve and booked 3BR townhouse at Lakeshore during president's week for 4100 points.  I thought that was a pretty good deal.   
Have used the last minute points discount a few times for 3 and 4 night getaways.  Those were great deals.


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## m61376 (Aug 7, 2014)

BocaBoy said:


> This is the kind of slanted "information" that makes me want to spit.  Seven of the platinum Oecan Points weeks, including the 4 full weeks in January, require only 4225 points for the same 2BR unit, leaving you an excess of 25 DC points.  This is common among many resorts.  At my resorts you normally get enough DC points to reserve a week in the same unit and same season, but not all weeks in the season.  Your point is not without some validity, but you make it seem MUCH worse than it is.  In the Ocean Pointe case, you do better with DC points if you go in January and worse if you go in February.  I have never felt ripped off by the so-called skim because you do better or worse depending on your travel plans and needs, and that includes within the same season.  To me, it seems a reasonable trade-off for the flexibility you get, especially when you consider that you can continue to reserve your weeks as before.


Clearly it depends upon the resort. There are several resorts where the points allotted do not allow an owner to reserve a single week in their season.
Ocean Pointe overall fared well in the points allotment game. In fact, owners were allotted more points than owners elsewhere for units that Marriott.com charges half the rental rate for (compared to units elsewhere that MVCI allotted fewer points to). So I'm not sure Ocean Pointe is a representative example of the DC program across the board.

That said, it clearly works better for some than for others, and at least for some people it is a very nice option. So far, it has not really impacted legacy owners reserving their owned weeks. However, as Marriott continues to buy back weeks at certain resorts especially, and the percentage of the weeks in the Trust approaches that of legacy weeks, I wonder if there will be any impact on owners reserving their owned weeks to use. theoretically, if Marriott continues to take it's equitable share and plays fairly, it shouldn't, since demand should parallel availability. 

Thus far, the only real trade-off has been decreased inventory in II. Whether or not increased flexibility, despite perceived costs, compensates for that depends upon the owner. With any change in program there are going to be people who are happy and those who are upset but, over time, people adjust, as most f us have here, and learn to use what is to our best advantage.

Personally, I think the program landed with a dud for many Caribbean week owners due to questionable point allocations, but many of us have joined, whether to trade our weeks or to have the option of renting points from others, or simply for the free trades. Guess it depends on whether you want to look at the glass half empty or half full...


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## pipet (Aug 7, 2014)

iconnections said:


> Pipet, you can make it work, if you are flexible.



The program is GREAT if you are flexible. But, that was kind of my point!  Because I am less flexible with my travel and will be for the next decade, I relate more to jerseyfinn's comment than Boca's annoyance with it.  It doesn't really matter to me if I could book a week for less points when that's a week I am never able to use.

I do make it work, and having a HI week myself, I appreciate very much DC for down trades, which due to the significant loss in value/view, I was reluctant to do with II.  With your own extremely high-valued week, I am also sure you appreciate down trading since for MMI OF, all trades to other resorts are down trades.

I factor my costs of converting to points vs II vs renting, convenience factor of DC vs II, etc, and decide accordingly, and I think that's what most here would advocate. For my higher-valued week, sometimes DC works and sometimes it doesn't, and for my moderate-valued week, II always comes out on top. I have eaten skim, but I did it anyway for the convenience factor of being able to get my reservations far in advance for other planning purposes (getting several family members together with crazy schedules made it worth it).


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## dioxide45 (Aug 7, 2014)

BocaBoy said:


> This is the kind of slanted "information" that makes me want to spit.



Please don't spit, I don't want to step in it...


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## Cobra1950 (Aug 15, 2014)

Afterabout a month and a half, no availability yet at Summittwatch per Marriott for late Feb. 2015.  Only response from Marriott is maybe I should try to reserve something a year out instead somewhere else!!
    This is after a hard pitch the VCPoint program was the way to get "quick reservations" which were according to TuGGers assisted by Marriotts' "Skim Program" which gave them extra profitability!!:hysterical:


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## Cobra1950 (Sep 15, 2014)

Finally got confirmation of week requested for VCPoints, original request June, nice to get it, shocked how long it took.  Just wanted to advise the outcome.


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## Fasttr (Sep 15, 2014)

Cobra1950 said:


> Finally got confirmation of week requested for VCPoints, original request June, nice to get it, shocked how long it took.  Just wanted to advise the outcome.



Congrats!!!  Glad the wait list eventually came through for you.


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## ilene13 (Sep 16, 2014)

Cobra1950 said:


> Finally got confirmation of week requested for VCPoints, original request June, nice to get it, shocked how long it took.  Just wanted to advise the outcome.



A two month wait isn't that long.  Maybe you should have tried at the 12 month point and it would have been quicker!


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## puckmanfl (Sep 16, 2014)

Good morning...

Cobra....

I will be there with you 2/22-2/27.  I am not sure why you had so much difficulty snagging this ressie...  I used my DC points at 13 months out to snag 2  2 bedroom Summitt units... got a third 2 bedroom at the 8 month mark.  and just added 2 studio units last week...

also not sure why you call program a dud...

in the old system to get a studio unit at Summitt last week a Feb..you would have had to lock off your Xmas week unit and trade a Xmas studio for a "downtrade" studio.  With points you turn in your Xmas week.. you get tons of points and save as the Feb week is less points...  even with skim you are way ahead....you got your unit....

I think the problem is that some sales rep told you that you that with points you can get instant reservations anywhere...There isn't a single timeshare system anywhere int he world, that has prime ski and other inventory availablity instantly.  Everything is always subject to availabilty and trading!!!

Let's have a high quality Apres ski bevearge at Summitt during our week together...


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## Cobra1950 (Sep 16, 2014)

Puckmanfl,
    Actually I am there week of 2/27-3/6, so no toasting this time.  As correctly noted, my comments were based on comments by Marriott sales people how quickly and on a "short term" basis confirmations would come using VCPoints, which is not the case in peak periods.  Requesting a confirmation a year ahead is not much different than going to II for a trade.
     However as noted I am glad the confirmation came though, especially now that with Vail Resorts owning Park City that the town lift will actually be running!


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## puckmanfl (Sep 16, 2014)

good evening

Cobra  darn it... looking forward to a meet up....

I will toast to you the week before .....

10 ED docs on the mountain..makes it a pretty safe place!!!!!!


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