# Should be condemned [Cocoa Palms, Merged]



## Kauai Kid (Dec 21, 2008)

Believe I'll send a letter to the editor of the Garden Island Newspaper regarding the Coco Palms property.

Demolish the Coco Palms, it has been an eyesore ever since Iniki hit.

Turn it into a nice park like Lydgate.


Sterling


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## rifleman69 (Dec 21, 2008)

Does the county or state have enough money to buy or condemn the property?


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## DeniseM (Dec 21, 2008)

The land that the Cocoa Palms was built on is sacred site with historical significance, so it cannot just be developed like any other property.  There is a commission on Kauai that deals with such matters and I believe the long-term goal is to restore it as a historical site.  Because they want to preserve the original historical site, even demolition with have to be done with great care.


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## BocaBum99 (Dec 21, 2008)

I think the eye sore should remain as a constant reminder of how the anti-development policies of Kauai will ultimately result in its comeuppance.

The reason why the property isn't being developed is that county of Kauai planning commission rejected coco palms plans to build a full scale spa on the resort.  How stupid is that?  They would rather have the ugly place that it is now rather than a renovated resort with a spa.

These same anti-development policies killed the Super Ferry and killed the economy on the island of Molokai.


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## Kauai Kid (Dec 21, 2008)

DeniseM said:


> The land that the Cocoa Palms was built on is sacred site with historical significance, so it cannot just be developed like any other property.  There is a commission on Kauai that deals with such matters and I believe the long-term goal is to restore it as a historical site.  Because they want to preserve the original historical site, even demolition with have to be done with great care.




Sounds like a great idea to me.  Lets demolish it with great care and then restore it to its historical significance with special sensitivity to the Hawaiians and their heritage.

As it is now I think that pile of rotting junk and debris is extremely disrespectful to Hawaiians and their Hawaiian history.  How'd Coco Palms ever get built in the first place since it is an historical site?

Would be nice to see the commission get off their lemus and do something. Its been what, 10 years since Iniki?   I'd be glad to send a contribution so something might get started in my lifetime.

Sterling


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## DeniseM (Dec 21, 2008)

Sterling - It was built back in the day when $$$ ruled over historical value.


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## BocaBum99 (Dec 21, 2008)

DeniseM said:


> Sterling - It was built back in the day when $$$ ruled over historical value.



And, it remains as it is today because historical value rules over $$$.  Hmm, I wonder which situation was better?


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## DeniseM (Dec 21, 2008)

Historical value gets my vote!


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## Bob P (Dec 21, 2008)

Just took the tour thru the resort last month.  The tour guide stated that a developer from Princeville has bought the property and a billion dollar revovation is due to start in 12-18 months.  So he said, Hope so.


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## BocaBum99 (Dec 21, 2008)

DeniseM said:


> Historical value gets my vote!



Well, then you should be happy at the current state of the resort.


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## rickandcindy23 (Dec 21, 2008)

Bob P said:


> Just took the tour thru the resort last month.  The tour guide stated that a developer from Princeville has bought the property and a billion dollar revovation is due to start in 12-18 months.  So he said, Hope so.



What resort gave this tour?  Perhaps they have some insider information.  Perhaps David Walters is planning something new, since he sold out to Wyndham.


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## Bob P (Dec 21, 2008)

The tour was the 4x4 movie tour, so I can't be certain of the facts.


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## DeniseM (Dec 21, 2008)

Here's a report from the Kauai Garden News about the bill they were trying to pass to restore it.  It has some of the background info., but it's a year old.  It appears to be the most current info.

Here's another one - The History of Cocoa Palms

And here are lots of articles about the chain of events that don't seem to have gotten anywhere, so far.

In this economy, you'd have to be crazy to build a new resort in that spot.


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## DaveNV (Dec 21, 2008)

When I was there last month I heard that a developer was "trying" to restore the place, but trhey were running into all sorts of obstruction from the government.  So it sits there, rotting into the ground.  

In the same conversation (held with a shop owner in Kapaa) I was told they do weddings and other private ceremonies by appointment on the property (maybe that's at the historical part?) but that Joe Tourist can't just show up and expect to see much beyond a wishful-thinking Elvis sighting.  The Jeep tours are probably the only people who get to go on the grounds regularly.  

I can't imagine how much money would be required to fix the place, either historically or for the tourist market.  And since nothing can be higher than a palm tree, the cost per square foot per acre would be very high.

Dave


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## Kauai Kid (Dec 21, 2008)

Bob P said:


> Just took the tour thru the resort last month.  The tour guide stated that a developer from Princeville has bought the property and a billion dollar revovation is due to start in 12-18 months.  So he said, Hope so.




Seems like that is about the same time frame the movie tour folks told us a year ago.

Over the last two weeks, several business owners asked if we were staying in a timeshare.  They were grateful for the business we were giving them and said timeshare owners are still coming.  It is the luxury hotel customers that are staying away in droves.

Maybe the development, if and when it comes, will be another timeshare and that should help keep the Kauai economy afloat for years and years more.  (Seems to me it is on the wrong side of a busy highway).  Last week an elderly woman in a Kaapa crosswalk was struck by a car. 

Sterling


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## alanraycole (Dec 21, 2008)

*Just my opinion and I don't have a Kauai vote...*

So this opinion and a buck will get you nothing more than a cup of coffee. 

But, here it is anyway... the dead should never take precedence over the living. Even if development involved a cemetery where my grandparents are buried, I wouldn't be against the development. I would only expect for them to be respectfully moved at the developer's expense to a similar place. Sound evil? Would you want to keep your living children and the children of others from pleasure by  imposing some never ending restrictions on development of your grave site? Wouldn't you want to move over and make room? I would hope that those who have passed would have been as considerate of the future generations as me.

I know, I know. People revere their ancestors. But, those who do so should consider what their ancestors would probably want for us. The best way to know that is to answer what you would want for your children (not what you might want for yourself).


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## rifleman69 (Dec 21, 2008)

DeniseM said:


> The land that the Cocoa Palms was built on is sacred site with historical significance, so it cannot just be developed like any other property.  There is a commission on Kauai that deals with such matters and I believe the long-term goal is to restore it as a historical site.  Because they want to preserve the original historical site, even demolition with have to be done with great care.




I have no problem with it turning into a historical site, could probably provide quite a few jobs for the economy as well as a tourist trap.   Or if they rebuild, that's fine too but just leaving it as is is pretty sad.


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## Icarus (Dec 21, 2008)

I think whatever happens or doesn't happen should and will be up the people of Kauai.

-David


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## eal (Dec 22, 2008)

I think we can all agree that the current state of the Coco Palms is a MAJOR eyesore, and Iniki was in September 1992 for heaven's sake - over 16 years ago!


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## Liz Wolf-Spada (Dec 22, 2008)

I agree with David. The people of the island should make the decisions. I also agree with Kaui Kid and Denise that the culture of the people in preserving and venerating historical burial sites is a primary concern and should take precedence over $$$ and development. If you want unrestrained financial focus and development, go to Vegas. Hawaii is special, not only because of it's ocean and physical beauty, but because the culture and beliefs of the Hawaiians infuse the islands with many special healing properties.
Liz


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## DaveNV (Dec 22, 2008)

Liz Wolf-Spada said:


> I agree with David. The people of the island should make the decisions. I also agree with Kaui Kid and Denise that the culture of the people in preserving and venerating historical burial sites is a primary concern and should take precedence over $$$ and development. If you want unrestrained financial focus and development, go to Vegas. Hawaii is special, not only because of it's ocean and physical beauty, but because the culture and beliefs of the Hawaiians infuse the islands with many special healing properties.
> Liz




Agreed.  I saw a bumper sticker there that said, "Without Hawaiians, there is no Aloha."

Dave


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## alanraycole (Dec 22, 2008)

*A generic slant against developers is inconsistent with our actions!*

Sure everyone has heard stories of the evils of a developer somewhere. But, all are not evil and keep in mind that pragmatically, WE are the developers. They build what they expect the we, the public, will buy (If we don't buy into it, the developers go broke.).

I am speaking for general purposes, not with Coco Palms specifically in mind. I, personally think the Coco Palms is a lousy place for a resort. I, also, am not pushing for unfettered development. After all, I go to Kauai for the beautiful natural surroundings. I love the no higher than the trees rule, especially for Kauai! But, lets call a spade a spade. The bitterness toward developers is really based on selfishness and greed... ironically, exactly what we attribute to developers. It stems from a perhaps unconscious desire to keep the status quo for those who already have theirs. The anti development croud are those who want the place they love to stay just the way it is... but, isn't that practically preventing the masses from enjoying the same?

I, personally, wish for one more timeshare development on Kauai... a lavish Hilton resort on a breathtaking beach (No, the Coco Palms resort doesn't come close to fulfilling that dream.). Then, I want all other development forbidden. Yes, I am just like everyone else... after I get mine, I want everyone else cut off... but, at least I'll admit my selfishness and greed.

Back to the Coco Palms for a minute... yes, it is an eyesore.... and, I can't think of a better use for that particular site than as a park/historical site. But, if the people of Kauai grew in density to the point that Coco Palms was the only practical site for a school or hospital or something else of importance to them, I bet they wouldn't hesitate to plow it under for the development. In other words, I am cynical about the whole historical site ruse. They just want to keep any additional outsiders out. Yes, tourists bring them jobs. But, let's face it, most residents love the tourist dollar, but hate the tourist... not directly, necessarily. After all, I have some Hawaiian friends... so they don't all hate all tourists. But, I don't doubt for a minute that if they found a sound alternative to tourism, they would jump all over it and through us bums out! They are just like all the rest of us... they want to keep the good stuff for themselves. So be it... but lets call it what it is. Yes, there are probably a few true believers in all the mysticism arguments... but, I bet the average Kauaian citizen just wants to keep more outsiders out and signs on to the mysticism rot for cover.

Call me a jerk for calling a spade a spade, but, isn't dishonesty a greater evil than bluntness?

Disclaimer: I am not a developer and have never been directly involved in any development.


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## travelnut (Dec 23, 2008)

I agree with Kauai Kid and Bocca Bum as well as the preervationists.  We just returned from Kauai and my husband & I had the same conversation.

Several years ago, a lavish ownership development was planned.  The developer opened an office in the Coconut Grove Center with representative apartments, all with granite countertops and granite/marble floors, Viking appliances, imported Italian lighting fixtures for the bathroom.  I'm sure glad that we didn't plunk down the $1M+ for a unit (wonder what happened to those that did).  The killer issue, as I was told by locals, was not the heritage issue, but some petty issue like location of a spa, or pedestrian bridge over the Hwy, or other minor issue.  The County had its chance to get rid of an eyesore and turn it into an income-producing cash "Kau" - Ai! Just think how many tax dollars could be coming in from all those $1M units!

The eyesore surely brings down adjacent property values as well, adding to loss of tax revenue.

Meanwhile the building rots, possibly releasing asbestos, toxics from lead in the plumbing, old paint, etc. and who knows what other toxins in close vicinity to the Wailua Stream and the beach across the road. The mold will require special measures to protect future demolishers.

The owner should be forced to demolish the buildings and clean up the site to eliminate these hazards and protect property balues.  In local cities in my area, property owners must maintain their properties to a certain standard and remove non-operative vehicles, junk, overgrown vegetation, repair fences in view of the street, remove sagging rain gutters, etc.


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## BocaBum99 (Dec 23, 2008)

BMWguynw said:


> Agreed.  I saw a bumper sticker there that said, "Without Hawaiians, there is no Aloha."
> 
> Dave



As Hawaiians are now learning with tourism down 20% year over year, "Without Tourists, there is no Aloha."


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## BocaBum99 (Dec 23, 2008)

alanraycole said:


> Sure everyone has heard stories of the evils of a developer somewhere. But, all are not evil and keep in mind that pragmatically, WE are the developers. They build what they expect the we, the public, will buy (If we don't buy into it, the developers go broke.).
> 
> I am speaking for general purposes, not with Coco Palms specifically in mind. I, personally think the Coco Palms is a lousy place for a resort. I, also, am not pushing for unfettered development. After all, I go to Kauai for the beautiful natural surroundings. I love the no higher than the trees rule, especially for Kauai! But, lets call a spade a spade. The bitterness toward developers is really based on selfishness and greed... ironically, exactly what we attribute to developers. It stems from a perhaps unconscious desire to keep the status quo for those who already have theirs. The anti development croud are those who want the place they love to stay just the way it is... but, isn't that practically preventing the masses from enjoying the same?
> 
> ...



I agree with most of what you've said in this post until you got to immigration.  You should just delete that part of your post because it is a controvertial distraction from your main point and could explode into an out of control political discussion about the difference between immigration and illegal immigration.


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## Kauai Kid (Dec 23, 2008)

As I've said in previous posts, Kauai business owners are extremely grateful that the time share tourists are still coming.  It is the luxury hotels that are really hurting for business and they are having to lay off employees.

I suspect the Kauai business owners have become time-share supporters and will let the  county government know how grateful they are.

Since the Maui county government is anti-timeshare I'm sure going to let Maui businesses know we are staying in a timeshare in March.

The Point at Poipu was full in Oct.
Alii Kai II was full in December.

We still consider every trip to the Sandwich Isles to be a blessing  that many folks will never experience.

Sterling


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## Icarus (Dec 23, 2008)

BocaBum99 said:


> I agree with most of what you've said in this post until you got to immigration.  You should just delete that part of your post because it is a controvertial distraction from your main point and could explode into an out of control political discussion about the difference between immigration and illegal immigration.



Or just ignore it. 

-David


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## Lazz (Dec 24, 2008)

Bob P said:


> Just took the tour thru the resort last month.  The tour guide stated that a developer from Princeville has bought the property and a billion dollar revovation is due to start in 12-18 months.  So he said, Hope so.




I heard the same thing on the same tour 4 years ago.  Nothing have changed.

http://www.cocopalms.com/

http://www.coco-palms.com/


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## tfalk (Dec 30, 2008)

Having stayed at the Coco Palms on our honeymoon in 1982, I personally wish they would return it to its former splendor. Sadly, I doubt it will ever happen...

Like everything else, it all boils down to 1 thing.  Money...

They had an approved plan to rebuild it but tried to push too far and got slapped.  They wanted to convert an approved outdoor area (I think it was tennis courts) to an enclosed area (Spa) and the county said no so they scuttled the entire project.  Given the current economy, might have been the best thing since anyone who might have bought a unit would have taken a bath...

The 'people' want it returned to a park or something other than a building.  Problem is, none of them want to pay for it.  The county wants part of the property to be able to finally relieve the traffic congestion.  Problem is, they also don't want to pay for it.  In the meantime, as long as any upgrades to the property are subject to 'public opinion' or vote, nothing will ever get built there.


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## DaveNV (Dec 30, 2008)

Given its current state of disrepair, I wonder how long it will be before some sort of unknown, mysterious, "accidental" fire happens and the place burns to the ground.  Then, since it'd be a public safety matter, the State or County can move in and do as they wish.

Dave


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## Kauai Kid (Jan 11, 2009)

*Coco Palms Letter to the Editor*

I sent the following email to the Editor of the Garden Isle Newspaper and to members of the Kauai County Council.

We visited your beautiful island of Kauai in 2008 for 4 weeks and have been visiting for over twenty five years.  We continue to be overwhelmed by the beauty of the island and the gracious caring folks of the Garden Isle.  We spent between four and five thousand dollars on each trip.

It is beyond our comprehension why the county government won't do something about the eye sore of Coco Palms.  Hurricane Iniki hit on September 11, 1992 almost 17 years ago.

It would have been condemned any place else in the country.

Bull doze it down, haul away what hasn't been eaten by termites, and let the citizens of Kauai decide what to do with the area.

Charge visitors a $5 fee per airline trip to fiance the costs.

Its awful.

More people might visit if they didn't have to see the decaying ruins of Coco Palms.

Sterling


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## ricoba (Jan 11, 2009)

While I appreciate your desire to keep Kauai beautiful, I am not in favor of adding fees on to airline tickets to do so.  

If the taxpayers of Kauai want to fix the place, they should bear the cost.

Just my two cents.


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## wa.mama (Jan 11, 2009)

As I understand it, the Coco Palms story is complex, involving failed development plans, lawsuits, problems with contamination, pedestrian access from development to beach, city ordinances and regulations, etc.  In the current environment of slow economic development that currently plagues Kauai, I favor the rumor that the area might be made into a park, and would support a small tax toward that development.  I don't, however, want to fund any developer's plan to increase traffic on Kuhio hwy and decrease access to the Wailua beach area.


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## Kauai Kid (Jan 11, 2009)

ricoba said:


> While I appreciate your desire to keep Kauai beautiful, I am not in favor of adding fees on to airline tickets to do so.
> 
> If the taxpayers of Kauai want to fix the place, they should bear the cost.
> 
> Just my two cents.





Obviously they taxpayers of Kauai don't want to bear the cost.  They haven't since Iniki hit.

Hopefully $5 a ticket wouldn't break any ones wallet.  If so, they shouldn't be on Kauai.  I as a visitor want to fix the place.

Sterling


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## california-bighorn (Jan 11, 2009)

*How about Cabo?*

While Sterlings intentions are good, I don't think we should think we are responsible or in a position for "fixing" the world.  I'm sure we could all find areas in our own neighborhoods that would benefit from renovation.
But, if we were going to start projects to fix travel desinations, I would start with the abandoned hotel half built in the middle of Cabo San Lucas.  What is with that place?


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## Kauai Kid (Jan 12, 2009)

I wonder how many more years it will be before some radical like me will be posting its time to bull doze the failed developments down around Poipu?

At least Coco Palms was extremely successful before Iniki hit.

Sterling


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## sailingman22 (Jan 12, 2009)

This discussion reminds me of a similiar issue along the foot path in front of buildings A & B at the Pono Kai resort. We were at the Pono Kai in Dec 2007 and a orange plastic fence was installed where the beach had eroded the sand along the foot path. We arrived again this December and the same fence was up warning people to stay away so I went to the resort registration desk and asked when the repair would be completed. The young lady smiled and said the they hoped to get it repaired in the summer of 2010! The county and state are arguing over who is responsible for the cost of repairs. 

So much for public safety.


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## JeffW (Jan 12, 2009)

sailingman22 said:


> ...The county and state are arguing over who is responsible for the cost of repairs...QUOTE]
> 
> Not surprising.  Although Hawaii is an expensive place to visit, I never had the impression it was a wealthy state.   I'm sure a lot of resorts think, "It's a state issue, they should pay to fix it", while the state thinks, "the resorts get all those tourist dollars, they can afford to do it."


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## rifleman69 (Jan 12, 2009)

sailingman22 said:


> This discussion reminds me of a similiar issue along the foot path in front of buildings A & B at the Pono Kai resort. We were at the Pono Kai in Dec 2007 and a orange plastic fence was installed where the beach had eroded the sand along the foot path. We arrived again this December and the same fence was up warning people to stay away so I went to the resort registration desk and asked when the repair would be completed. The young lady smiled and said the they hoped to get it repaired in the summer of 2010! The county and state are arguing over who is responsible for the cost of repairs.
> 
> So much for public safety.




Didn't look to be a very good beach regardless, plus with the canal, boat ramp, and the dredgers.   Edited to note that you were there in December, which is after my trip in April!   That walking/biking path is great though, smart decision by the county.


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## Kauai Kid (Jan 25, 2009)

*Response  from Kauai County Government re Coco Palms*

I received a response from Jay Furfaro regarding condemnation of Coco Palms:

"Condemnation might be a consideration for the State health Department"

Lets hope the state considers it and then acts on it.



Give me the keys to a bull dozer and I'll have it in piles inside a week at no charge. 


Sterling


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## Bob P (Mar 30, 2009)

*Coco Palms*

There may be hope yet!  A few good pics here http://www.friendsofcocopalms.org/


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## DeniseM (May 1, 2009)

In today's Garden Island News - Coco Palms Granted 3 Year Extension on Permits


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