# NEW FEES for reservations at Bonnet Creek



## Sandy VDH

Starting Feb 15th, they are starting to charge for Transportation Shuttles/Parking/Golf Carts by charging every reservation a $12 per reservation per day charge.  So a week long stay just got $84 more, and regardless of the use of or number of vehicles used/parked etc.   So a 4 BR pays the same as a one person staying in a 1 BR unit.

Disney charges $95 but at least it includes transfer from the Airport. 

I think that is annoying.  I especially think it stinks when they don't tell you or have any notice on the BC page.  I know other resorts have a parking fee, but they disclose it on the website.  NO disclosure for BC. 

I only found out because I called to confirm they received the seperate ressies that are back to back.  The person on the phone (Nathan) disclosed the new fee.  Originally it was to be Feb 1 but they pushed to back to the 15th.  I have a reservation on the 22nd.  Timing sucks.


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## vacationhopeful

What a crock of BS!

Parking is not an issue at that resort - in my opinion. As for shuttles to Disney, I find sitting in the middle of a parking lot less than desirable than a DVC bus stop - and insulting for $84 per week. 

I wonder if Wyndham & its managed HOA are going to drum up more money for other resorts who might have tight parking -- OCEAN WALK, Royal Vista, Ocean Blvd. Oh why, just tight parking resort ... lets just add it on to ALL checkin.

And lets make a 2nd vehicle fee be $168 or $252 per week for 2 vehicles. And lets charge for anything bigger than a compact car, be another surcharge. Etc. Etc.


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## lcml11

vacationhopeful said:


> What a crock of BS!
> 
> Parking is not an issue at that resort - in my opinion. As for shuttles to Disney, I find sitting in the middle of a parking lot less than desirable than a DVC bus stop - and insulting for $84 per week.
> 
> I wonder if Wyndham & its managed HOA are going to drum up more money for other resorts who might have tight parking -- OCEAN WALK, Royal Vista, Ocean Blvd. Oh why, just tight parking resort ... lets just add it on to ALL checkin.
> 
> And lets make a 2nd vehicle fee be $168 or $252 per week for 2 vehicles. And lets charge for anything bigger than a compact car, be another surcharge. Etc. Etc.



Thanks to the Origanal Poster for the information.  I was thinking of steping up my use of Bonnet Creek.  

For this poster, you had better be careful, Wyndham might like the way you do math and hire you.


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## jmurp62

*Waaaaaat*

I have a reservation starting the 26th of Feb! What a crock is right. I just got my pre arrival email and is says nothing about any fee. I am an ownerof Wyndham but not BC. Is this a non owner fee? Or just a flat fee I wonder
Murf


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## vacationhopeful

I suspect the HOA is not willing to PAY for the bus to Disney - they are already getting soaked on the fancy pools and hot tubs. 

Or all the complaints are about the slow BUS service verse the hotel (next to Tower 6) which has a slot at the Disney Transportation center with a sun/rain cover over the seats for waiting ... and it is much more regular than 60 minutes (might be 15-20 minutes turnaround).


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## Sandy VDH

What is to stop anyone from walking over and using the Hotel bus, instead of the TS shuttle?


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## WeLovetoTravel

I saw Sandy's post and the steam starting coming out of my ears!! We have a spring trip planned also, and there is no way I'm going to pay for a shuttle that I don't use or parking when I'm not in the city! I called Wyndham just now. The vacation counselor and Owner Relations assured me that the Wyndham Grand Hotel at Bonnett Creek is charging per day now for parking and fees, but the timeshare IS NOT! What a relief!
-Deb


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## jmurp62

Thanks Deb!


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## jjmanthei05

WeLovetoTravel said:


> I saw Sandy's post and the steam starting coming out of my ears!! We have a spring trip planned also, and there is no way I'm going to pay for a shuttle that I don't use or parking when I'm not in the city! I called Wyndham just now. The vacation counselor and Owner Relations assured me that the Wyndham Grand Hotel at Bonnett Creek is charging per day now for parking and fees, but the timeshare IS NOT! What a relief!
> -Deb



We have a trip planned for March 16th. I called the Wyndham phone number for the Timeshare side and they said there was the fee. 

Jason


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## WeLovetoTravel

jjmanthei05 said:


> We have a trip planned for March 16th. I called the Wyndham phone number for the Timeshare side and they said there was the fee.
> 
> Jason


Now I am really annoyed! They better get their story straight! If you call the VIP line (888-884-4321) They will tell you that there is no fee! I wonder if the resort itself decided to start charging a fee without the ok from the higher ups?? If anyone finds anything else out, please post! I called a second time, and Wyndham Owner relations says there is no fee. I don't see how they can get away with charging us!


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## WeLovetoTravel

I just called BonnettCreek! I spoke to Stephanie. The $12 fee is for guests. Not owners. If you have reservations for your own use and you are an owner at Bonnett Creek, you will not be charged.


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## Sandi Bo

Thanks for the heads up Sandy.  

I, too, called Bonnet Creek.  They said starting Feb 15th they are going to start charging the fee.  If you are an owner at Bonnet Creek you will not be charged, any other guests (or owners at other resorts) will be charged.

I'm pretty disgusted.   Do they stay awake at night trying to think of ways to take our money?  I would not want to be working the front desk at Bonnet Creek any time in the near future.  They took a great selling point and ruined it.

Comical, in a Wyndham sort of way, they are working on updating the materials and website. It doesn't matter that the guest confirmations state:  Enjoy free scheduled transportation to and from the four Walt Disney World Theme Parks and Downtown Disney®. The transportation schedule will be available in the Welcome Packet you receive upon check-in.


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## lcml11

Sandi Bo said:


> Thanks for the heads up Sandy.
> 
> I, too, called Bonnet Creek.  They said starting Feb 15th they are going to start charging the fee.  If you are an owner at Bonnet Creek you will not be charged, any other guests (or owners at other resorts) will be charged.
> 
> I'm pretty disgusted.   Do they stay awake at night trying to think of ways to take our money?  I would not want to be working the front desk at Bonnet Creek any time in the near future.  They took a great selling point and ruined it.
> 
> Comical, in a Wyndham sort of way, they are working on updating the materials and website. It doesn't matter that the guest confirmations state:  Enjoy free scheduled transportation to and from the four Walt Disney World Theme Parks and Downtown Disney®. The transportation schedule will be available in the Welcome Packet you receive upon check-in.



Just got off the phone with Wyndham Reservations.  She confirmed the Web Site has not changed to update the new fee.

She indicated that Access Owners, Wyndham employees, Presidential Reserve Owners, and Bonnet Creek Owners will not be charged the fee.  She said E-Mail notifications should be forthcoming shortly.

She specifically confirmed the Wyndeham Website indicating free shuttle to Disney is no longer right.

It is interesting that the Club Wyndham Access program is going to be getting a waiver to fees that Club Wyndham Plus program owners will not be getting unless otherwise eligable for a different waiver, such as employee waiver or Bonnet Creek owner, etc.

If true, I hope this is not the start of making use fees for Club Wyndham Plus members that are not in Club Wyndham Access.  In my specific case, she indicated that I would not be charged the fee because I own one Club Wyndham Access contract.


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## massvacationer

Maybe the developer is starting to scale-back how much it is subsidizing maintenance fees ?  So the BOD decided to add some shuttle/parking charges, rather than increasing the maint fees in a big way?


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## markb53

lcml11 said:


> Just got off the phone with Wyndham Reservations.  She confirmed the Web Site has not changed to update the new fee.
> 
> She indicated that Access Owners, Wyndham employees, Presidential Reserve Owners, and Bonnet Creek Owners will not be charged the fee.  She said E-Mail notifications should be forthcoming shortly.
> 
> She specifically confirmed the Wyndeham Website indicating free shuttle to Disney is no longer right.
> 
> It is interesting that the Club Wyndham Access program is going to be getting a waiver to fees that Club Wyndham Plus program owners will not be getting unless otherwise eligable for a different waiver, such as employee waiver or Bonnet Creek owner, etc.
> 
> If true, I hope this is not the start of making use fees for Club Wyndham Plus members that are not in Club Wyndham Access.  In my specific case, she indicated that I would not be charged the fee because I own one Club Wyndham Access contract.



Since the Access trust owns some units at Bonnett Creek, it would be consistant that if owners don't have to pay the fee, then CWA owner wouldn't have to either.


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## lcml11

markb53 said:


> Since the Access trust owns some units at Bonnett Creek, it would be consistant that if owners don't have to pay the fee, then CWA owner wouldn't have to either.



I guess there would be some logic to that approach.


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## chriskre

Sandy VDH said:


> What is to stop anyone from walking over and using the Hotel bus, instead of the TS shuttle?



Nothing.


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## siesta

This is bullshit, and if I were one of you that got a confirmation packet that doesnt mention the charge and if before you get there still havent received notice, I would not pay and would talk to the manager if need be. And if they charged your card on file anyways upon checkout I would dispute it with my cc company and claim fraudulent misrepresentation. I know my cc company would not argue with me over ~$100


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## lcml11

siesta said:


> This is bullshit, and if I were one of you that got a confirmation packet that doesnt mention the charge and if before you get there still havent received notice, I would not pay and would talk to the manager if need be. And if they charged your card on file anyways upon checkout I would dispute it with my cc company and claim fraudulent misrepresentation. I know my cc company would not argue with me over ~$100



Maybe the existing reservations and/or reservations with pre-existing guest confirmations will be grandfathered.


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## chriskre

lcml11 said:


> Maybe the existing reservations and/or reservations with pre-existing guest confirmations will be grandfathered.



I hope so cause I'm going in June.
Is this just for RCI exchanges or for Club reservations also?
I've got an RCI exchange for June and a Club reservation for later in the year.
They shouldn't be charging club ressies these fees.  :annoyed:


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## lcml11

chriskre said:


> I hope so cause I'm going in June.
> Is this just for RCI exchanges or for Club reservations also?
> I've got an RCI exchange for June and a Club reservation for later in the year.
> They shouldn't be charging club ressies these fees.  :annoyed:



Do not know.  I talked to Wyndham Club Plus reservations line.  You might want to call RCI and check with them on the RCI reservations.


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## chriskre

lcml11 said:


> Do not know.  I talked to Wyndham Club Plus reservations line.  You might want to call RCI and check with them on the RCI reservations.



Well the RCI exchange was only 12 TPU's so I could live with that, but the club ressie should not have any fees.  That's just totally unfair.  
The buses suck at Bonnet Creek.  You are better off taking the hotel shuttle to the parks instead.  In fact that is what I ended up doing after seeing about 5 hotel buses go by and no TS buses.  The driver didn't want to initially let us on but we got on anyway.


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## JimMIA

lcml11 said:


> Maybe the existing reservations and/or reservations with pre-existing guest confirmations will be grandfathered.


Yeah, right!  That would be just like Wyndham, wouldn't it?


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## JimMIA

Personally, I'm hoping my home resort adopts $20 per night fees for all *non-Wyndham Smoky Mountains owners, VIP's, and Access* owners.

Seems only fair.


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## capital city

This is probably to optimistic considering its Wyndham but maybe they are charging because they are upgrading their shuttle service. Seems that the biggest complaint about Bonnet Creek on here is the wait on shuttle services. Hopefully they are adding more routes and just need to charge for it.


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## pacodemountainside

I am kinda surprised at the outrage.

First this is resort HOA  doing,   not WWW, et.al.  Dos anyone have   list of BODs showing  curriculum vita and any  Wyndham affiliation?

New resorts  such as LBM , etc. have been charging for parking  which keeps HOA fees lower.

Yes, it may well be   Developer did not  provide  for reserves and/or subsidized and   BOD either raised MF or  found another source of income. Presumably they are owners  and look out for their own.

Resorts have been eliminating welcoming parties, increasing   activity fees eliminating  amenities(think thread on starter kits) , etc.   since day I bought.

Worst case,  all resorts jump on band wagon and start  charging non owners  parking,  all  activities, whatever and providing a jar of Vaseline.

It is amazing  all the versions  that have popped up, but I guess the olde  if you call Wyndham  and don't like answer call back later and it may be  more gooder!

As Yakow in Branson likes to say, bet you never thought of it(getting  financially screwed)  that way, but now you will.!


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## JimMIA

capital city said:


> This is probably to optimistic considering its Wyndham but maybe they are charging because they are upgrading their shuttle service. Seems that the biggest complaint about Bonnet Creek on here is the wait on shuttle services. Hopefully they are adding more routes and just need to charge for it.


Oh, I'm sure it's optimistic!

But I really don't believe it's because they're _improving_ anything.  :rofl:

I'm sure it's just because they can.  Trying to create an illusion of direct purchases being worth something.

Not a problem for me -- I have a total of <$2,000 in Wyndham and there are lots of other places to stay.  By my rough calculations, I have 8,350 nights of stays at WBC paying the $12 to pay what I would have paid if I'd purchased 500K points direct.

But if I had purchased something DIRECT at another Wyndham resort, I would be grumpy.


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## JimMIA

pacodemountainside said:


> ...and providing a jar of Vaseline.


Um...that will be $8 please!


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## lcml11

JimMIA said:


> Personally, I'm hoping my home resort adopts $20 per night fees for all *non-Wyndham Smoky Mountains owners, VIP's, and Access* owners.
> 
> Seems only fair.



Works for me, I own two timeshares there.  Great choise of resorts.


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## sjuhawk_jd

Sandy VDH said:


> Starting Feb 15th, they are starting to charge for Transportation Shuttles/Parking/Golf Carts by charging every reservation a $12 per reservation per day charge.  So a week long stay just got $84 more, and regardless of the use of or number of vehicles used/parked etc.   So a 4 BR pays the same as a one person staying in a 1 BR unit.
> 
> Disney charges $95 but at least it includes transfer from the Airport.
> 
> I think that is annoying.  I especially think it stinks when they don't tell you or have any notice on the BC page.  I know other resorts have a parking fee, but they disclose it on the website.  NO disclosure for BC.
> 
> I only found out because I called to confirm they received the seperate ressies that are back to back.  The person on the phone (Nathan) disclosed the new fee.  Originally it was to be Feb 1 but they pushed to back to the 15th.  I have a reservation on the 22nd.  Timing sucks.



Wyndham, crooks, and criminally insane fees are all same things.


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## jjmanthei05

I see this as a pretty clear sales tactic. Don't pay your daily fee by doing an update. Glacier canyon implemented something similar to try and get more sales presentations. For anyone that was a guest, they weren't allowed to get their wristbands for the waterparks early unless they did a presentation. 

Jason


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## Sandy VDH

jmurp62 said:


> I have a reservation starting the 26th of Feb! What a crock is right. I just got my pre arrival email and is says nothing about any fee. I am an ownerof Wyndham but not BC. Is this a non owner fee? Or just a flat fee I wonder
> Murf



I am an owner at Wyndham and have just made the reservation 2 weeks ago for February.  So I have NOT been notified either, as an owner or as a current booker of a reservation.

I am a VIP Plat owners and own AT Bonnet Creek.  I also had to use 3 of my guest certs to book this 7 night stay, NOW on top of that, because I am sending a guest and NOT staying myself, my Guest is having to pay AGAIN, just because they are a guest. 

Something is wrong there.


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## MFT

There was a long thread a while back about Smuggler's Notch charging an "activity fee" to non-owners.  If you transferred in RCI or on a GC, you paid their $300+ a week activity fee for the use of their waterpark, etc... You did though have the option to not purchase it if you didn't want it.  Someone mentioned above that maybe BC will use as a sales incentive to waive the fee.  Smuggs offers to provide the package for free if you go through their sales meeting, so I wouldn't be surprised if more resorts use this tactic.  

So we've stayed at BC before, and never used the bus, as we had our own car.  I guess my concern is why are they charging everyone (other than those exempt) for transportation they may not use?  

This is another way for WVR to push their Access program.  I got a kick when I attended a sales meeting, where discussion of course went to E-bay.  The salesman said "ya, you can get the old points programs, but you won't find Access contracts on there!  And that's the hot program to get into..."  I smiled and said "obviously you haven't been on E-bay laterly".


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## MFT

I agree that maybe the HOA is using the fee to offset MFs.  Obviously they would rather do this than increase MFs.  That may be the new direction of resorts to keep MFs in check for their resort.


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## Sandi Bo

Sandy VDH said:


> I am an owner at Wyndham and have just made the reservation 2 weeks ago for February.  So I have NOT been notified either, as an owner or as a current booker of a reservation.
> 
> I am a VIP Plat owners and own AT Bonnet Creek.  I also had to use 3 of my guest certs to book this 7 night stay, NOW on top of that, because I am sending a guest and NOT staying myself, my Guest is having to pay AGAIN, just because they are a guest.
> 
> Something is wrong there.



I was told that if you are an owner at Bonnet Creek, your guests will not have to pay the $12 fee. 

I am also a VIP owner at Bonnet Creek with reservations after February 15 and have not been notified.

As with all things Wyndham, we'll find out how it really works when it is implemented (and it probably still won't be consistent).

Off topic, Sandy, if you booked 7 nights in the same unit size, and booked everything on the same day, you only need to use one guest confirmation.  You have to call and have a VC (who understands this rule, most do) and have them add the guest confirmations for you. They will charge for the first one, and comp the remaining.  You need to call the day you make the reservations.


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## vacationhopeful

MFT said:


> I agree that maybe the HOA is using the fee to offset MFs.  Obviously they would rather do this than increase MFs.  That may be the new direction of resorts to keep MFs in check for their resort.



I don't think this is going to keep MFs in check. Wyndham will use this money for the "Parking Pass" process - which is managed by sales and their trinkets. Wyndham is not building NEW towers at Bonnet Creek and this is the timeframe of the built out resort sales staff getting more devious to KEEP their lifestyle going Status Quo. 

Are there any other projects with the "GLAM" of Bonnet Creek?

Reunion Resort is not inside the Disney gate.


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## MFT

vacationhopeful said:


> Are there any other projects with the "GLAM" of Bonnet Creek?
> 
> Reunion Resort is not inside the Disney gate.



For those that are traveling to Orlando to just do the Disney thing, and don't rent a car, this fee is reasonable.  For us, we do rent a car, and usually only hit 1 Disney park, and then do Universal, Sea World, etc...  Hit the ocean one day, etc...  We never use the resort bus, regardless of where we stay.  Wouldn't mind if they offered a "transportation package" for those wanting to use the service, but to charge everyone is sort of unfair.

As far as parks inside Disney gate, I have stayed at BC as well as other resorts around the park, and to me it's really not a major advantage being inside the gate.  We end up traveling for shopping and groceries, restuarants, etc... outside the gate, so it is at sometimes a disadvantage as we are actually further away from Int'l Drive or the touristy areas in Kissimmee.


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## Tia

MFT said:


> I agree that maybe the HOA is using the fee to offset MFs.  Obviously they would rather do this than increase MFs.  That may be the new direction of resorts to keep MFs in check for their resort.



Not new if you consider some resorts started charging energy fees to exchangers/renters and this is the same sort of thing isn't it? Who sits on the HOA there Wyndham employees??


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## ronparise

vacationhopeful said:


> Are there any other projects with the "GLAM" of Bonnet Creek?
> 
> Reunion Resort is not inside the Disney gate.




The glam of Bonnet Creek, is just that Glam.  the downside is that anything you want to do outside the resort, requires a car, and a ride Its a project to get to the grocery or drug store

 I have come to prefer, Star Island where you still need a car, but you park right outside your door and all the services and shopping and restaurants of Kissimmee are just outside the gate.


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## tschwa2

MFT said:


> There was a long thread a while back about Smuggler's Notch charging an "activity fee" to non-owners.  If you transferred in RCI or on a GC, you paid their $300+ a week activity fee for the use of their waterpark, etc... You did though have the option to not purchase it if you didn't want it.  Someone mentioned above that maybe BC will use as a sales incentive to waive the fee.  Smuggs offers to provide the package for free if you go through their sales meeting, so I wouldn't be surprised if more resorts use this tactic.
> 
> So we've stayed at BC before, and never used the bus, as we had our own car.  I guess my concern is why are they charging everyone (other than those exempt) for transportation they may not use?
> 
> This is another way for WVR to push their Access program.  I got a kick when I attended a sales meeting, where discussion of course went to E-bay.  The salesman said "ya, you can get the old points programs, but you won't find Access contracts on there!  And that's the hot program to get into..."  I smiled and said "obviously you haven't been on E-bay laterly".



I believe at Smugglers Notch you just had to be a Wyndham Points owner not necessarily  Club Access owner.  And if I remember correctly a guest going to the presentation just got the ability to buy the Smuggs Pass for the RCI rate of $300+ they did not get the pass free for agreeing to attend.


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## vacationhopeful

ronparise said:


> ...
> I have come to prefer, Star Island where you still need a car, but you park right outside your door and all the services and shopping and restaurants of Kissimmee are just outside the gate.



I too like Star Island better than Bonnet Creek ... have stayed there MORE (by double or triple) the nights than at BC. BC costs more points. BC has long hallways. 10+ restrauants are within a mile of my units at SI. SI has a full service spa. Star Island is NOT managed by Wyndham ...


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## Sandy VDH

I've call Wyndham Reservations back, they are going to check and get back with me.  Reservations knows nothing about it, according the the VC and he's supervisor. 

Got to love Wyndham for never communication anything in a timely manner.


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## csxjohn

This goes back to an earlier thread of mine.

Why in the world should or can an exchanger pay for anything an owner doesn't have to??

When I trade the TS I own with someone, either directly or through an exchange company, I should be entitled to all the benefits of the owner just like he should be entitled to all the amenities at my resort.

The timeshare industry is still in a world of hurt and these kinds of policies don't make it any easier on us.

I also agree that if I made an exchange or reservation and this fee was not disclosed before I did so, I would not pay it.


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## massvacationer

Sandy VDH said:


> I've call Wyndham Reservations back, they are going to check and get back with me.  Reservations knows nothing about it, according the the VC and he's supervisor.
> 
> Got to love Wyndham for never communication anything in a timely manner.



So, this must have been a decision made entirely locally at the resort - since Corporate Wyndham doesn't know anything about it yet.  

I think that Bonnet Creek has a lot of spectacular and expensive amenities (pools, lazy rivers, shuttles, etc.) and I also think (IMHO) that they may be facing some fiscal budget pressure to hike maintenance fees - especially if the developer is starting to back down any subsidies that they have been providing to the resort.....the resort is built-out and may have limited inventory yet to sell.

I don't think that they should charge a transportation fee to folks who don't use it.


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## MFT

tschwa2 said:


> I believe at Smugglers Notch you just had to be a Wyndham Points owner not necessarily  Club Access owner.  And if I remember correctly a guest going to the presentation just got the ability to buy the Smuggs Pass for the RCI rate of $300+ they did not get the pass free for agreeing to attend.



I believe a Wyndham owner does get the package, regardless if they are a Smuggs owner or not.  But RCI and those there with a GC do not.  There was another forum post where a "Guest" was told they would get the package for free, but only if they attend the 90 minute sales presentation.  The guest then contacted Wyndham directly to argue, and Wyndham agreed and allowed her to get the pass without the sales meeting.  

I too agree that if I'm trading via RCI, I should not have to pay activity fees, etc..., since someone obviously is trading into Wyndham, and getting whatever "activities" I would get as an owner.  But from this thread, it looks like that may be changing.  Also, if I want to have a guest use my points, I am disappointed that they may be faced with additional fees that I would not have myself.


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## timeos2

MFT said:


> I agree that maybe the HOA is using the fee to offset MFs.  Obviously they would rather do this than increase MFs.  That may be the new direction of resorts to keep MFs in check for their resort.



It is, and has been (see the infamous DVC "penalty fee that was the sat of it all).  But don't take it sitting on your ability to influence things. 

Rate the resort 1 or 0!  On everything. And repeat each time it due to the unfair fee(s) being charged. A guest rating cannot be removed from the total for the resort and will affect the ranking they receive (or lose). When they see their Golden Pineapple or Gold Crown drop to a rotten peach or waste treatment cap award due to all those low ratings maybe they will rethink this bad move. 

Or maybe not if the money means all that much to them. In that case they deserve the low ranking regardless of what other features or quality they may offer and you get to smile knowing your response helped lower that coveted ranking.  

Then stay at a higher ranked resort that doesn't charge unwarranted fees. There are plenty that play by the rules and fairly rather than trying to fleece their guests. Apparently Wyndham, Manhattan Club, DVC and some others are not among them. Rate them accordingly.


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## pacodemountainside

Sandi Bo said:


> I was told that if you are an owner at Bonnet Creek, your guests will not have to pay the $12 fee.
> 
> I am also a VIP owner at Bonnet Creek with reservations after February 15 and have not been notified.
> 
> As with all things Wyndham, we'll find out how it really works when it is implemented (and it probably still won't be consistent).
> 
> Off topic, Sandy, if you booked 7 nights in the same unit size, and booked everything on the same day, you only need to use one guest confirmation.  You have to call and have a VC (who understands this rule, most do) and have them add the guest confirmations for you. They will charge for the first one, and comp the remaining.  You need to call the day you make the reservations.



Since you are  a VIP owner at BC  you should have gotten  annual meeting info,  BOD info,  2013  Budget, etc.  last fall.  Who did it show was on BOD? I am curious  as often inferred that it is Wyndham executives.   Who  is  the employer  of record  for  members. 

On RTs never had a problem just  using one a day  and is spelled out in Directory. However, on split reservations have had to use two GCs  and was told that's the way it is when I complained.


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## lcml11

chriskre said:


> Well the RCI exchange was only 12 TPU's so I could live with that, but the club ressie should not have any fees.  That's just totally unfair.
> The buses suck at Bonnet Creek.  You are better off taking the hotel shuttle to the parks instead.  In fact that is what I ended up doing after seeing about 5 hotel buses go by and no TS buses.  The driver didn't want to initially let us on but we got on anyway.



Called RCI, they indicated that they will go with the fees as the resort wants them for reservations made through them.


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## timeos2

When you choose to own at any resort or system that is not controlled by the owners but is run solely for the good of the sponsoring developer/seller you run the nearly guaranteed risk that they will make changes that hurt the owners and help them. That is a key reason we have sold off all our non-owner controlled ownerships and only kept those that are owner controlled and operated.  The added bonus is that most of those non-owner systems are also readily available for rental by non-owners and usually at rates far below what you would pay in annual fees and always below what you would ave paid in annual fees and prorated purchase cost. It is a double win to be out from under the thumb and total lack of input/control of the developer controlled resorts & systems such as DVC, Wyndham, Marriott, Starwood, etc.  Join the freedom march!  Dump your non-owner controlled holdings ASAP.  You'll be much happier in the long run.


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## rickandcindy23

Just called Wyndham Corporate, VIP line, and was told the fee is for using the shuttle service only and won't be charged to those who don't use the shuttle service.  Not sure if that is true or not, because you know how it is with Wyndham--the left hand doesn't know what the right hand is doing.


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## jjmanthei05

rickandcindy23 said:


> Just called Wyndham Corporate, VIP line, and was told the fee is for using the shuttle service only and won't be charged to those who don't use the shuttle service.  Not sure if that is true or not, because you know how it is with Wyndham--the left hand doesn't know what the right hand is doing.



So what is the point of using the shuttle service then? if you are going to disney every day isn't it only like $15 to park and you can come and go whenever you want. Seems worth the $3 to me. 

Jason


----------



## lcml11

pacodemountainside said:


> Since you are  a VIP owner at BC  you should have gotten  annual meeting info,  BOD info,  2013  Budget, etc.  last fall.  Who did it show was on BOD? I am curious  as often inferred that it is Wyndham executives.   Who  is  the employer  of record  for  members.
> 
> On RTs never had a problem just  using one a day  and is spelled out in Directory. However, on split reservations have had to use two GCs  and was told that's the way it is when I complained.



It is my understanding that on a split reservation, if the guest pass is added at the point the reservation is made, it is one.  If it is added later it is one per each part of the split reservation.  I have done it both ways.  When I added a guest recently to a reservation through the computer for a split reservation, it was only one.


----------



## pacodemountainside

massvacationer said:


> So, this must have been a decision made entirely locally at the resort - since Corporate Wyndham doesn't know anything about it yet.
> 
> I think that Bonnet Creek has a lot of spectacular and expensive amenities (pools, lazy rivers, shuttles, etc.) and I also think (IMHO) that they may be facing some fiscal budget pressure to hike maintenance fees - especially if the developer is starting to back down any subsidies that they have been providing to the resort.....the resort is built-out and may have limited inventory yet to sell.
> 
> I don't think that they should charge a transportation fee to folks who don't use it.



Why would Wyndham Corporate  and sales know what Resort HOA  BOD is doing?  Hopefully the Resort will notify VOI Trust to alert its employees  and update  reservation  confirmations.

As far as transportation  fee, someones ox is going to get gored and like if a tree falls in the forest  and there is no one to hear does it make a  big noise,  which can be debated until keg runs dry.

Take the VOI Trust!  It costs  about $100 million to run, rounded to make  math easy. It gets  its  money from $.54/.57  POA fee  and  specific user charges. There is  is some interest and  reimbursements  but  ignore to keep simple.  So, the Wyndham Triumvirate  has   decided  how to allocate.

Everyone gets a free RT per 77K points

Everyone gets 1 GC

Everyone gets a "free" RCI membership

Everyone  gets one free directory

Everyone gets unlimited phone and web usage

Everyone pays $39 for credit pooling

Everyone can rent points from Trust

So after  estimating how much these specific usage fees will bring  the difference  is  spread over points one owns.

Perks VIPs get  are reimbursed  by sales, some $12 million in 2011

Same applies to resorts. Most have free parking, WIFI  in room,  basic activities, etc.

Others   go  a la carte, in Mexico  daily  tidy up fee, all computer usage is charged,  some  charge for  phone  calls,  some safe deposit box,  some  charge  for extra soap even if a large unit,  flat daily activity fee, etc.

Concept is simple,   charge the guests just like  cities levy huge taxes on hotel room and  car rentals. 

Denver has   a great  light rail system but fares only cover  about 60% of costs  and  everyone pays 3/4 of 1%  sales tax to cover even though we never use!


----------



## rickandcindy23

jjmanthei05 said:


> So what is the point of using the shuttle service then? if you are going to disney every day isn't it only like $15 to park and you can come and go whenever you want. Seems worth the $3 to me.
> 
> Jason


I agree, Jason.  We have annual passes and drive to/ from the parks, no matter where we stay. Parking is free for us.  And it's only $14 per day, so you only save $2.  

Wyndham doesn't offer a great shuttle service. 

OTOH, DVC's shuttle service is superior in every way.  

Staying at DVC, the only benefit we get from their shuttle service is we don't have to park at the transportation center and take the monorail or boat to Magic Kingdom.  We drive to Animal Kingdom, Hollywood Studios, and to Epcot.  I admit that Boardwalk Villas is kind of fun to take the boat to HS and Epcot, though.


----------



## cumbres

*Email from Wyndham RE: Bonnet Creek fee*

Thank you for contacting CLUB WYNDHAM® regarding Bonnet Creek resort information.

I was able to contact Bonnet Creek and they stated there is not charge to owner for parking or shuttle, however after Febuary 15, 2013 there will be a charge of $12 for the shuttle for guest or rental who have checked in.


Regards,

Jovan Hall
E-Commerce Owner Resolution Division


----------



## chriskre

lcml11 said:


> Called RCI, they indicated that they will go with the fees as the resort wants them for reservations made through them.



So these fees are just per room right?
Not per person?  

It seems everyone is getting in on the fee bandwagon.
I've stayed at a few resorts recently that didn't used to have have fees that all of a sudden according to management, RCI is making them charge these fees.
Sounds like a cop out, but that's what they are saying.
Maybe RCI told them to say that.  Dunno.  
Ya know play good cop, bad cop.  :ignore:


----------



## antjmar

cumbres said:


> Thank you for contacting CLUB WYNDHAM® regarding Bonnet Creek resort information.
> 
> I was able to contact Bonnet Creek and they stated there is not charge to owner for parking or shuttle, however after Febuary 15, 2013 there will be a charge of $12 for the shuttle for guest or rental who have checked in.
> 
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Jovan Hall
> E-Commerce Owner Resolution Division



Thanks. If this is correct than all wyndham owners dont pay the fee. 
This is the same policy posted for  Smugglers Notch for their pass. Wyndham owners dont pay but guests or rentals pay. 
I guess I'm okay with that...


----------



## vacationhopeful

And that charge is $12 per DAY? 

I guess Wyndham has found a way to collect money off the owners' rentals.


----------



## rickandcindy23

vacationhopeful said:


> And that charge is $12 per DAY?
> 
> I guess Wyndham has found a way to collect money off the owners' rentals.


It's per day for the days the guests want to use the shuttle service, which makes it completely unnecessary to have the shuttle service, IMHO, because the shuttle service doesn't take anyone to/from the airport.  So rent a car and drive to/ from the parks and pay just $2 more for parking at Disney.


----------



## antjmar

It seems that they are trying to reduce the rentals at the popular resorts. 
For wyndham owners at Smuggs the summer (or winter) pass is included. If you dont have the pass the mountain side pool and water slide is $44 *per day *adults and $34 per child The fun zone is an extra $20 per child per day!
IMO they are reducing the rental competition from TS owners...


----------



## jebloomquist

This is for those of you who rent to others. After the rental stay, or any stay for that matter, Wyndham sends out an email requesting information on how the stay went. This is sent to the Wyndham member, not the guest. I normally disregard these emails from Wyndham because I usually am the renter not the guest. 

It will probably won't make any difference, but if Wyndham started to get responses that said something to the effect that, "I really enjoyed the property, but I will never return because of the $12/day added fee, and also, I could never recommend it to anyone else either," maybe assessing the fee might be reconsidered.

This is just another thought from my strange mind.


----------



## vacationhopeful

antjmar said:


> It seems that they are trying to reduce the rentals at the popular resorts.
> For wyndham owners at Smuggs the summer (or winter) pass is included. If you dont have the pass the mountain side pool and water slide is $44 *per day *adults and $34 per child The fun zone is an extra $20 per child per day!
> IMO they are reducing the rental competition from TS owners...



Yee, that is $250/day for passes for POINTs owners' rental guests (family of 5). $1750 weekly. I wonder how many "guests" getting hit with THAT fee will sign up to become a Wyndham Points owner?

Yes, that would have possible guests finding another vacation venue. But could open up Wyndham's Extra Holidays as being a member of a clash action lawsuit.


----------



## MFT

vacationhopeful said:


> Yee, that is $250/day for passes for POINTs owners' rental guests (family of 5). $1750 weekly. I wonder how many "guests" getting hit with THAT fee will sign up to become a Wyndham Points owner?
> 
> Yes, that would have possible guests finding another vacation venue. But could open up Wyndham's Extra Holidays as being a member of a clash action lawsuit.



From Smuggs website:  It's only $343 per week, per condo.  Wyndham owners don't pay this, but RCI and Wyndham GC do.  It of course is free for lodging "Smuggs rental" guests.  Supposedly from past posts, if you are RCI, you can simply purchase it.  If you are though Wyndham GC, the only way you can get it is to through the sales presentation.  If not, you have to pay per day.

All of these activities, facilities and discounts are available to your entire party during your RCI stay at Smugglers' with the purchase of a SmuggsPass. The Summer SmuggsPass cost is $343 per home per week (plus tax) and covers everyone staying in the home. The SmuggsPass will be prorated for shorter stays. Purchase of the SmuggsPass must be for your entire length of stay.


----------



## jmurp62

*Grrrrrrr!!!!!!*

Sent email to:

Robert L. Tomlinson SMS

Senior Membership Specialist

robert.tomlinson@wyn.com

He responded by asking me to call him to find out how to avoid this fee forever. Told him I heard a rumor, he said no its a fact. I asked "guess I can get out of it by buying at BC?" Correct, buy a small pkg. Told him lots of people are upset, didnt seem to care. Asked if he could look up a few recent purchases, heard $$$ signs in his voice. Oh, so you made some more Wyndham buys recently he asks and I said yea, resale. He abruptly changed his tone and I said "Yea, I know you guys dont like that huh?" He said I can giv e you a phone number, I said, nah I got it and he ended the call. What a bunch of pack rats!!!!!! So, maybe its true, maybe its not, Grrrrrr:annoyed:


----------



## pacodemountainside

jmurp62 said:


> Sent email to:
> 
> Robert L. Tomlinson SMS
> 
> Senior Membership Specialist
> 
> robert.tomlinson@wyn.com
> 
> He responded by asking me to call him to find out how to avoid this fee forever. Told him I heard a rumor, he said no its a fact. I asked "guess I can get out of it by buying at BC?" Correct, buy a small pkg. Told him lots of people are upset, didnt seem to care. Asked if he could look up a few recent purchases, heard $$$ signs in his voice. Oh, so you made some more Wyndham buys recently he asks and I said yea, resale. He abruptly changed his tone and I said "Yea, I know you guys dont like that huh?" He said I can giv e you a phone number, I said, nah I got it and he ended the call. What a bunch of pack rats!!!!!! So, maybe its true, maybe its not, Grrrrrr:annoyed:



Was he in Owner's Relations or Corporate Sales?

Try shelly.griessel@wyn.com  something like VP of owner relations


----------



## lcml11

pacodemountainside said:


> Was he in Owner's Relations or Corporate Sales?
> 
> Try shelly.griessel@wyn.com  something like VP of owner relations



Do not know if this is him or not.  Found it on the internet.

Robert Tomlinson
Corporate sales worldwide at Wyndham Vacation Ownership
Orlando, Florida Area Hospitality


----------



## siesta

Not sure if this has been mentioned, but is this fee mandatory or only if you opt to use the shuttle service. Sandy's OP wasnt too clear, mentioned use but but not sure if it implied the number of people using it etc. My presumption is it is mandatory.


----------



## lcml11

pacodemountainside said:


> Was he in Owner's Relations or Corporate Sales?
> 
> Try shelly.griessel@wyn.com  something like VP of owner relations



Do not know if this is him or not.  Found it on the internet.

Robert Tomlinson 

Corporate sales worldwide at Wyndham Vacation Ownership 

Sorry for a bad joke, but maybe this is where this thread went astray, just calling Wyndham Sales at Bonnet Creek and they would sell you a timeshire to dodge the fee.


----------



## erixunz

Just want to confirm that the $12 per day fee is only billed if you plan to use the shuttles.  If you have a car and will not use the shuttles, then you won't be billed the shuttle fee.


----------



## Sandi Bo

There are still some outstanding questions, and as someone said earlier, if you don't like what you are hearing, call back and ask someone else (no 2 answers are alike).

* If renting from a Bonnet Creek owner, will you have to pay the $12 fee?
* Is the fee optional? I was told it is a parking / shuttle / resort transportation fee (not optional) but it sounds like others have been told differently

They are probably still writing the policy, it will be interesting to see how it is enforced.  I sure wouldn't want to be working the front desk at Bonnet Creek when they start charging the new fees.

I like the ideas about responding to the surveys, let's hope the survey results matter to someone.


----------



## lcml11

erixunz said:


> Just want to confirm that the $12 per day fee is only billed if you plan to use the shuttles.  If you have a car and will not use the shuttles, then you won't be billed the shuttle fee.



Do not believe this at all based on the other posts, however, just got off the phone with Bonnet Creek.  They said it was a daily fee against everyone that stays there.  This would be per unit and not per person.  I guess we will just have to wait and see what actually happens after February 15.  Either everyone that gives info from Wyndham gives a different answer, or there is some sort of problem between the HOA/Management Company and Corporate Wyndham.


----------



## rickandcindy23

It's a fee per day YOU PLAN TO USE the shuttle service to/ from Disney parks.  That was my understanding, but it could be all wet. 

Shoot!  Too many conflicting answers to this question.  Wyndham needs to get their answer to this question straight, for goodness sake.There is only one correct answer.  Get it together, Wyndham.  :annoyed:


----------



## pacodemountainside

Sandi Bo said:


> There are still some outstanding questions, and as someone said earlier, if you don't what you are hearing, call back and ask someone else (no 2 answers are alike).
> 
> I like the ideas about responding to the surveys, let's hope the survey results matter to someone.



The Main Man likes  to quote owner surveys indicating a 90%+ satisfaction rate with  reservations, resorts, staff, etc.  excluding sales. Points  out higher than ARDA.

He egregiously  omits  about  zero  satisfaction with sales which would  bring average  below   75% failing grade.

I like idea, but  have a feeling after editing  negative stuff  would go in  dumpster along  with "F"   BBB rating  as misguided  soles who aren't with his  programme!


----------



## henryr01

timeos2 said:


> When you choose to own at any resort or system that is not controlled by the owners but is run solely for the good of the sponsoring developer/seller you run the nearly guaranteed risk that they will make changes that hurt the owners and help them. That is a key reason we have sold off all our non-owner controlled ownerships and only kept those that are owner controlled and operated.  The added bonus is that most of those non-owner systems are also readily available for rental by non-owners and usually at rates far below what you would pay in annual fees and always below what you would ave paid in annual fees and prorated purchase cost. It is a double win to be out from under the thumb and total lack of input/control of the developer controlled resorts & systems such as DVC, Wyndham, Marriott, Starwood, etc.  Join the freedom march!  Dump your non-owner controlled holdings ASAP.  You'll be much happier in the long run.



Sorry for the noop question (still waiting on my first closing), but how do you know which resorts are owner controlled?


----------



## bnoble

> So what is the point of using the shuttle service then?


It might come in handy if you're planning on having more than one or two BEvERages, even if the cost is equivalent to parking.


----------



## timeos2

henryr01 said:


> Sorry for the noop question (still waiting on my first closing), but how do you know which resorts are owner controlled?



It's as simple as asking. If the management won't say thn ask other owners as they should know.


----------



## Sandy VDH

There are different answers here, so basically Wyndham has not communicated this well to BC staff, and clearly NOT communicated it all to corporate.

Since I was the OP, I was told the following:  "it is for everyone who is NOT an owner (so GC or Exchanger).  It was per day NOT per person.  It was for shuttle/parking/golf cart services, whether you USED IT OR NOT."

So others are getting different answers. Why an I not surprised.

I am still mad, as I just made this reservation and there is still NO notice on Wyndham website (or RCI for that matter).


----------



## ronandjoan

Sandy VDH said:


> I am still mad, as I just made this reservation and there is still NO notice on Wyndham website (or RCI for that matter).



Worse than nothing on the site is this testimonial on the site:

"This resort has it all. It’s close to the highway exits and has a shuttle service to the Disney Theme Parks — saves $14.00 in parking"


----------



## ronandjoan

FOUND it!!

On Wyndham Extra Holidays.
www.bonnetcreek.com


"All guests will incur a $12 per unit/per day transportation fee that will be collected at check in. This includes shuttle to Walt Disney World ® Resort.)"


----------



## ronandjoan

ronandjoan said:


> FOUND it!!
> 
> On Wyndham Extra Holidays.
> www.bonnetcreek.com
> 
> 
> "All guests will incur a $12 per unit/per day transportation fee that will be collected at check in. This includes shuttle to Walt Disney World ® Resort.)"



Oops
On the SAME site

"Complimentary transportation to Walt Disney World® Resort theme parks and on-site expert help with Disney planning make your stay a fun-filled family vacation you'll always remember."


Looks like there is a LOT of communication problems within Wyndham - or maybe writing /proofreading skills


----------



## ronandjoan

ronandjoan said:


> Oops
> On the SAME site
> 
> "Complimentary transportation to Walt Disney World® Resort theme parks and on-site expert help with Disney planning make your stay a fun-filled family vacation you'll always remember."
> 
> 
> Looks like there is a LOT of communication problems within Wyndham - or maybe writing /proofreading skills



Hotel site
www.wyndham.com
says shuttle is complimentary

"Start your day with a full breakfast at our hotel's restaurant, deep blu seafood grill and then gear up for fun-filled adventure at the Walt Disney World® Resort. Getting there is easy with our complimentary and convenient hotel shuttle service. Return to the hotel and make a splash in our outdoor lagoon-style pool, or enjoy a morning workout at our state-of-the-art fitness center."


----------



## antjmar

I dont think thats an "official" Wyndham  site.





ronandjoan said:


> FOUND it!!
> 
> On Wyndham Extra Holidays.
> www.bonnetcreek.com
> 
> 
> "All guests will incur a $12 per unit/per day transportation fee that will be collected at check in. This includes shuttle to Walt Disney World ® Resort.)"


----------



## lcml11

*Bonnet Creek Resort Defined*



ronandjoan said:


> FOUND it!!
> 
> On Wyndham Extra Holidays.
> www.bonnetcreek.com
> 
> 
> "All guests will incur a $12 per unit/per day transportation fee that will be collected at check in. This includes shuttle to Walt Disney World ® Resort.)"



Bonnet Creek Resort


From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


 Jump to: navigation, search


Bonnet Creek Resort is a 70-acre (280,000 m2) enclave in the southeast corner of Walt Disney World. Although it is accessible inside the gates of Walt Disney World, it is not owned by Disney. It is bordered on three sides by Disney-owned land and is surrounded by the Bonnet Creek nature preserve. The entrance is located just east of the entrance to Disney's Caribbean Beach Resort.

The resort development includes a cluster of luxury hotels. There is currently:
 A 1,100-room Wyndham Resort timeshare resort
 The 499-room Waldorf Astoria Orlando, the first new Waldorf Astoria hotel built since the original in New York City.
 The 1,001-room Hilton Orlando Bonnet Creek, known for its lazy river pool deck and popular La Luce by Donna Scala restaurant.
 A 400-room Wyndham Hotel is under construction, scheduled to open October 2011.
 An 18-hole Rees Jones-designed Waldorf Astoria Golf Club.

The Hilton and Waldorf Astoria hotels are joined by a 250,000-square-foot (23,000 m2) Bonnet Creek Convention Center.

The name Bonnet Creek references a body of water that flows through the property.[1] The name was actually used by Disney for more than 10 years as the name


----------



## jchesher

I just received my Resort Details e-mail for my week stay starting on 2Mar. The following is a quote from that letter.
_"Effective Friday, Feb. 15, 2013, the Bonnet Creek Home Owners
Association will begin implementing a $12 per unit/per day transportation fee. The fee applies to all reservations, except those made for units to be occupied by deeded owners at Wyndham Bonnet Creek Resort, CLUB WYNDHAM Access owners and CLUB WYNDHAM Presidential Reserve"_
It says that it is a transportation fee which would lead you to believe that if you do not utilize the transportation that you would not have to pay it, but it goes on to say that it applies to all reservation with a couple of exceptions.  I guess after this trip I will return back to Star Island.

Jim


----------



## Sandy VDH

I received my resort details letter, the one via email, and it mentions nothing.

Is this an email or snailmail letter.


----------



## capital city

Not for Bonnet Creek owners or Club Access owners. If this is true does it mean you just have to have some points there? So can I buy a 49k club access contract resale and avoid this? Of course not just for this but for any future crap fees like Smugs and so on.


----------



## lcml11

capital city said:


> Not for Bonnet Creek owners or Club Access owners. If this is true does it mean you just have to have some points there? So can I buy a 49k club access contract resale and avoid this? Of course not just for this but for any future crap fees like Smugs and so on.



It appears that is it just for the exceptions provided and not for non-Club Access Owners.  If this is the begining of a new trend to have resort use fees of one sort or another on the Club Wyndham Plus members that are not part of Club Wyndham Access, then I do not know if the additional maintance fees would off-set the new use fees involved.  It would be case by case, if more points were needed where ARP at a specific resort was not needed, then it might work out.

I would think, based on how this worked, more attention would need to be given to which resort's points are more usefull to a prospective owner.  For what it is worth, the vast majority of my points are with Club Wyndham Plus and I picked up a small Club Wyndham Access contract.


----------



## pacodemountainside

capital city said:


> Not for Bonnet Creek owners or Club Access owners. If this is true does it mean you just have to have some points there? So can I buy a 49k club access contract resale and avoid this? Of course not just for this but for any future crap fees like Smugs and so on.



The minimum CWA  membership is 63K points. I doubt sales weasel would  be  allowed  to sell  less than 105K+ since prime time bookings  require lots of  points and most require   3-4  night  stay and weekend check-in. 

Also, with $108 minimum POA fee how  much do you really save  with   tiny  ownership? 

 Further, keep  in mind Smugs is a WAAM. Unlike their  brick, stick and mortar projects  where they make the rules and brutally rape the naive, trusting and bribed  they have to negotiate  with third party having   some savvy and  clout!


----------



## capital city

pacodemountainside said:


> The minimum CWA  membership is 63K points. I doubt sales weasel would  be  allowed  to sell  less than 105K+ since prime time bookings  require lots of  points and most require   3-4  night  stay and weekend check-in.
> 
> Also, with $108 minimum POA fee how  much do you really save  with   tiny  ownership?
> 
> Further, keep  in mind Smugs is a WAAM. Unlike their  brick, stick and mortar projects  where they make the rules and brutally rape the naive, trusting and bribed  they have to negotiate  with third party having   some savvy and  clout!



I would be adding it to my existing account so the min POA shouldnt be a problem right? Also I would of course be able to use the 63k pts so it wouldnt be all for not paying this fee. Just thinking ahead if this becomes a trend that 63k at $350 m/f may well be worth it.


----------



## jjmanthei05

capital city said:


> I would be adding it to my existing account so the min POA shouldnt be a problem right? Also I would of course be able to use the 63k pts so it wouldnt be all for not paying this fee. Just thinking ahead if this becomes a trend that 63k at $350 m/f may well be worth it.



You are correct on both accounts. I looked and there were a couple of 105k Access contracts out on ebay. 

Jason


----------



## CruiseGuy

If you are going to stay at Bonnet Creek regularly, then it might might sense to get a small BC contract to avoid the fee.  However, right now it looks like I'm still better off with my lower MF contract and paying the additional fee to stay at Bonnet Creek.  Still not happy with it, and think it shouldn't be over $10/unit per day.


----------



## jchesher

Sandy VDH said:


> I received my resort details letter, the one via email, and it mentions nothing.
> 
> Is this an email or snailmail letter.


It was an e-mail notification with a link to the pre-arrival letter.

Jim


----------



## jjmanthei05

CruiseGuy said:


> If you are going to stay at Bonnet Creek regularly, then it might might sense to get a small BC contract to avoid the fee.  However, right now it looks like I'm still better off with my lower MF contract and paying the additional fee to stay at Bonnet Creek.  Still not happy with it, and think it shouldn't be over $10/unit per day.



If you are going there that often you probably already own there.

Jason


----------



## Sandi Bo

*One more whine about the fee*

Based on the verbiage in jchesher's pre-arrival letter (thanks for posting jchesher), sounds like all guests will be charged the fee.  So just what does our guest confirmation fee (of $99 - $129) cover?  Nothing (we already know that).  Now we not only pay the guest confirmation fee, but our guests have to pay a "transportation" fee.  And sounds like any guest (renters or family) will have to pay if they aren't owners.  Not a very nice way to treat guests.

Star Island should enjoy some increased traffic due to this change.

And another plug for those surveys, let Wyndham know we don't like this.  I plan to. I am going through my email now for past surveys I can still respond to.


----------



## ronparise

So  it sounds like the fee will be collected at the front desk...If I am a CWA owner or Bonnet Creek owner, does that mean I have to have my points certificate or my deed with me when I check in?   Or will those records be available to the front desk?

and

when Voyager finally is implemented, will it be enough to just own CWA or Bonnet Creek or will I have to have made my reservation with CWA or Bonnet Creek points?


----------



## ronparise

jjmanthei05 said:


> If you are going there that often you probably already own there.
> 
> Jason




Not true Jason...I dont own Bonnet Creek but thats where I go the most...


----------



## vacationhopeful

Ron,
What do you truly think? I would not be running off to buy any tiny CWA points or BC points to avoid that daily $12 fee. Just be staying either at DVC or SI or CP or OW.... all very fine resorts in their own right.

And I see this, if successful, as being another way to "zap" internal Wyndham Guests --- an exchange fee.

And just when you think those lawyers and accountants were just playing golf verses finding new and improved fees for their captive owners.


----------



## MFT

Just an observation...  We usually do FL in April, and a week at BC is around 224K points, whereas a week at Star Island is around 175K.  Roughly 50K more points for BC, which at say $5 per K average an additional $250.  Still people stay at BC because of the added amenities and proximity to Disney.  Now, they have added roughly the equivalent of 17K points (by charging $84 "cash" for the transportation).  So if the 17K points was added in to the weeks reservation (241K for a week vs 224K), would this had been as big a deal?  Could the HOA and Wyndham "adjusted" the weekly points, or are these points per day and week locked?

I think this was a really poor way for Wyndham to go after additional dollars.  Especially after what I've read about the poor transportation service that they provide to the park.  I'm sorry, but a parking fee per auto for the week (maybe $5 a day) would have made more sense and been fair, since some units have no vehicles and others three...  Also charging say $5 a day (or maybe $3 for a 1BR, $5 for a 2, and $7 for a 3) for transportation fee per room, would have been a fee most people would have just shrugged off.  But they have to improve the bus service, and if they are now charging the $84 per week fee, there better be more buses and drivers, because I will guarantee, there will be far more people using the buses now, especially if they are paying for it.  Also as someone stated, for this fee, they should be offering an airport shuttle.


----------



## MFT

CruiseGuy said:


> If you are going to stay at Bonnet Creek regularly, then it might might sense to get a small BC contract to avoid the fee.  However, right now it looks like I'm still better off with my lower MF contract and paying the additional fee to stay at Bonnet Creek.  Still not happy with it, and think it shouldn't be over $10/unit per day.



Picking up an 84K Access contract with MFs of around $5.45 wouldn't be to bad, as long as you plan to stay at BC at least 1 time a year to offset the additional cost (if your current average MFs are less).  But throw in closing costs, and it could take you 10+ years to recover the additional cost!  (the 84K one on E-bay I was looking at had almost $900 in closing related costs (ya, that's really high), and actually had 2 bidders). 

I think that picking up an Access account would be a good idea for someone who goes to BC often, but I'll just pay the $84 whenever I stay there every few years...


----------



## ronparise

vacationhopeful said:


> Ron,
> What do you truly think? I would not be running off to buy any tiny CWA points or BC points to avoid that daily $12 fee. Just be staying either at DVC or SI or CP or OW.... all very fine resorts in their own right.
> 
> And I see this, if successful, as being another way to "zap" internal Wyndham Guests --- an exchange fee.
> 
> And just when you think those lawyers and accountants were just playing golf verses finding new and improved fees for their captive owners.



I dont think anymore...I just react

I own CWA so I guess this fee wont apply, but Ive already decided that as nice as Bonnet Creek is, its poorly located for my needs. I like Star Island or Vacation Village at Parkway better.  Especially Vacation Village. I can usually get in there for under $300 (RCI Last Call) or 77000-105000  Wyndham points (plus an exchange fee) for the one bedroom... (Bonnet Creek is 166000 points) They do charge a $25 amenities fee which includes  a shuttle to local shopping and the Disney parks...and did I mention they welcome my dogs (for another  $125 fee but thats cheaper than boarding them somewhere).  Im looking at buying into plus partners so I can get nightly stays at this place


----------



## lcml11

ronparise said:


> So  it sounds like the fee will be collected at the front desk...If I am a CWA owner or Bonnet Creek owner, does that mean I have to have my points certificate or my deed with me when I check in?   Or will those records be available to the front desk?
> 
> and
> 
> when Voyager finally is implemented, will it be enough to just own CWA or Bonnet Creek or will I have to have made my reservation with CWA or Bonnet Creek points?



My guess is the front desk can already see the type of points you have.  I know the sales staff can so why not the front desk people?  At a minium, they should be able to see their owners of record for Bonnet Creek, including the Access Owners.


----------



## riverdees05

I made two exchanges with RCI on October 13, 2012 for June 8-15, 2013.  Nothing was said about this additional charge.  Do you think it will be charged and do we have any recourse with RCI?


----------



## lcml11

riverdees05 said:


> I made two exchanges with RCI on October 13, 2012 for June 8-15, 2013.  Nothing was said about this additional charge.  Do you think it will be charged and do we have any recourse with RCI?



When I talked with RCI recently on the issue, they indicated they will do what the resorts says.  You can give them a call and see what is happening in your particular case.  

It is still unclear whether grandfathering will occur or not.  Apparently one person received the E-Mail and at least one did not on a pending reservation.  Hopefully more posters will chime in.

Buying where you want to go is probably the best case.  I am not a fan of the RCI fees and normally do not use them for that reason.  One poster's observation on the internal Wyndham exchange system (the point system) may be going the same way.


----------



## chriskre

lcml11 said:


> When I talked with RCI recently on the issue, they indicated they will do what the resorts says.  You can give them a call and see what is happening in your particular case.
> 
> It is still unclear whether grandfathering will occur or not.  Apparently one person received the E-Mail and at least one did not on a pending reservation.  Hopefully more posters will chime in.



I haven't received any notification yet.  My reservation is for June.
I made it last year.  Maybe I'll get lucky.


----------



## lcml11

chriskre said:


> I haven't received any notification yet.  My reservation is for June.
> I made it last year.  Maybe I'll get lucky.



Hopefully,  that maybe a function on how far along project Voyager is.  One or two of the more agressive sales people say that the RCI and Wyndham Systems are coming together under this project.  

For legal reasons, I am not sure this is totaly true, but sharing some basic information between the systems may be.  In another words, they may not be far enough advanced to make the charge retro-active without causing more problems than it is worth.


----------



## bnoble

> I can usually get in there for under $300 (RCI Last Call) or 77000-105000 Wyndham points (plus an exchange fee) for the one bedroom... (Bonnet Creek is 166000 points)


You can also exchange back into Bonnet rather than book directly.


----------



## timeos2

ronparise said:


> I dont think anymore...I just react
> 
> I own CWA so I guess this fee wont apply, but Ive already decided that as nice as Bonnet Creek is, its poorly located for my needs. I like Star Island or Vacation Village at Parkway better.  Especially Vacation Village. I can usually get in there for under $300 (RCI Last Call) or 77000-105000  Wyndham points (plus an exchange fee) for the one bedroom... (Bonnet Creek is 166000 points) They do charge a $25 amenities fee which includes  a shuttle to local shopping and the Disney parks...and did I mention they welcome my dogs (for another  $125 fee but thats cheaper than boarding them somewhere).  Im looking at buying into plus partners so I can get nightly stays at this place



When did they start accepting dogs? We like VV at Parkway, I went through a hurricane there once, and see it available all the time cheap. We haven't used it when we have the dogs & settled for Celebration World or Westgate (holding our noses) as they offered pet units. Glad to hear we have a new option in a good location.


----------



## ronparise

timeos2 said:


> When did they start accepting dogs? We like VV at Parkway, I went through a hurricane there once, and see it available all the time cheap. We haven't used it when we have the dogs & settled for Celebration World or Westgate (holding our noses) as they offered pet units. Glad to hear we have a new option in a good location.



I dont know when they started, 

RCI will tell you that no pets are allowed, but call VV@P and they will tell you otherwise. They even have a doggie area, complete with poop bags in front of building 5. I think they will always put you in a ground floor unit in buildings 1-6. I would call in advance to let them know you are coming with the dog, rather than just showing up.


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## MichaelColey

They just dropped from my favorite non-DVC Orlando resort to somewhere in the middle.  None of my other top choices (besides DVC) have an $84/week surcharge.  Even DVC is only $95, and you get FAR MORE than what you do with WBC.


----------



## bnoble

> They just dropped from my favorite non-DVC Orlando resort to somewhere in the middle.


If that wasn't enough...take a look at what RCI is asking for September (September!) units in TPU...


----------



## Ron2

jchesher said:


> I just received my Resort Details e-mail for my week stay starting on 2Mar. The following is a quote from that letter.
> _"Effective Friday, Feb. 15, 2013, the Bonnet Creek Home Owners
> Association will begin implementing a $12 per unit/per day transportation fee. The fee applies to all reservations, except those made for units to be occupied by deeded owners at Wyndham Bonnet Creek Resort, CLUB WYNDHAM Access owners and CLUB WYNDHAM Presidential Reserve"_
> It says that it is a transportation fee which would lead you to believe that if you do not utilize the transportation that you would not have to pay it, but it goes on to say that it applies to all reservation with a couple of exceptions.  I guess after this trip I will return back to Star Island.
> 
> Jim



I agree that a $12 per day fee for shuttle service to Disney seems a bit much especially if you don’t plan to use it. However, who do you think pays for the shuttle service. I doubt Wyndham does. More than likely its the HOA and as an owner at Bonnet Creek I’m not thrilled about paying higher maintenance fees so everyone gets a free ride to Disney. I would think that a more fair way to handle this would be to charge a reasonable fee to those that use the shuttle service.


----------



## vacationhopeful

bnoble said:


> If that wasn't enough...take a look at what RCI is asking for September (September!) units in TPU...



I went and looked at the TPUs for BC and the other Kissimmiee resorts. 7-9  TPUs for most of the other resorts and 27-34 for BC --- similiar dates in late Aug and Sept. :annoyed:


----------



## jjmanthei05

rsphelps said:


> I agree that a $12 per day fee for shuttle service to Disney seems a bit much especially if you don’t plan to use it. However, who do you think pays for the shuttle service. I doubt Wyndham does. More than likely its the HOA and as an owner at Bonnet Creek I’m not thrilled about paying higher maintenance fees so everyone gets a free ride to Disney. I would think that a more fair way to handle this would be to charge a reasonable fee to those that use the shuttle service.



If you don't want to pay for it you have a couple options. 1) Don't own there or 2) have them stop the service. If this starts to roll out throughout the system, I think it will be detrimental to the system overall. I own at GC which has 4 waterparks, should the HOA now start charging for waterpark wristbands for non owners? We own in a system that gives us great things like BC, GC ect. I don't think we should start the "why should I pay for that for them?" 

Jason


----------



## MichaelColey

bnoble said:


> If that wasn't enough...take a look at what RCI is asking for September (September!) units in TPU...





vacationhopeful said:


> I went and looked at the TPUs for BC and the other Kissimmiee resorts. 7-9 TPUs for most of the other resorts and 27-34 for BC --- similiar dates in late Aug and Sept. :annoyed:


I had noticed that as well, but wasn't positive that I was remembering right and didn't have time to look it up, so I didn't mention it.

They're pricing WBC (both in TPU and fees) similar to DVC.  DVC is worth it (to me), but WBC isn't.  It may be worth a very small premium over other non-DVC Orlando properties, but nowhere near that much.  The ONLY benefit it has is the location.  But it's only a couple miles closer than some of the other top Orlando timeshares, and a couple miles isn't woth that much of a premium to me.


----------



## Ron2

jjmanthei05 said:


> If you don't want to pay for it you have a couple options. 1) Don't own there or 2) have them stop the service. If this starts to roll out throughout the system, I think it will be detrimental to the system overall. I own at GC which has 4 waterparks, should the HOA now start charging for waterpark wristbands for non owners? We own in a system that gives us great things like BC, GC ect. I don't think we should start the "why should I pay for that for them?"
> 
> Jason



Yes, I agree that we own in a system that provides outstanding amenities at SOME resorts. Your water park at GC likely is a great attraction and if I ever went there I would gladly pay a fee for the privilege of using it. There is constant discussion here on TUG about finding the cheapest places to own and to purchase them for next to nothing and then complain when thy don’t get VIP treatment when checking in to resorts like BC. Most of these other places don’t offer amenities even close to what you find at BC or GC, yet their points during the standard reservation period have the same value as ours. So I disagree that some reasonable fees assessed to non-owners for the premium amenities will be detrimental to the system. If it does anything, it will increase the value of our ownership and the desire for others to own at these fine resorts.
Ron


----------



## lcml11

rsphelps said:


> Yes, I agree that we own in a system that provides outstanding amenities at SOME resorts. Your water park at GC likely is a great attraction and if I ever went there I would gladly pay a fee for the privilege of using it. There is constant discussion here on TUG about finding the cheapest places to own and to purchase them for next to nothing and then complain when thy don’t get VIP treatment when checking in to resorts like BC. Most of these other places don’t offer amenities even close to what you find at BC or GC, yet their points during the standard reservation period have the same value as ours. So I disagree that some reasonable fees assessed to non-owners for the premium amenities will be detrimental to the system. If it does anything, it will increase the value of our ownership and the desire for others to own at these fine resorts.
> Ron



Who it is good for and who it is not is a interesting discussion, however, you main point is well taken.  For people that want to go just bargin basement, sometimes the value of what you paid for is what you paid for it, if not a liability.

The only observation I would make at this point is that it would be nice if owners at a given resort that do not have to pay the fee, that this option would pass to their guests to the degree that they own points or weeks at that resort.


----------



## antjmar

rsphelps said:


> So I disagree that some reasonable fees assessed to non-owners for the premium amenities will be detrimental to the system. If it does anything, it will increase the value of our ownership and the desire for others to own at these fine resorts.
> Ron




Good points, but if I read the comments correctly even *YOUR guests as a BC owner will still be charged the fee. * That would bother me.


----------



## timeos2

rsphelps said:


> Yes, I agree that we own in a system that provides outstanding amenities at SOME resorts. Your water park at GC likely is a great attraction and if I ever went there I would gladly pay a fee for the privilege of using it. There is constant discussion here on TUG about finding the cheapest places to own and to purchase them for next to nothing and then complain when thy don’t get VIP treatment when checking in to resorts like BC. Most of these other places don’t offer amenities even close to what you find at BC or GC, yet their points during the standard reservation period have the same value as ours. So I disagree that some reasonable fees assessed to non-owners for the premium amenities will be detrimental to the system. If it does anything, it will increase the value of our ownership and the desire for others to own at these fine resorts.
> Ron



The Wyndham system is (was?) a great one because a point is (was?) a point. The difference in amenities, if any, are accounted for by requiring more points for the more feature filled resorts and less for those that are older, smaller or offer less amenities. There was never any cash required nor should there be. If they want to reduce the points required to the same level at BC as at Star Island and THEN add a fee I could understand it. But this is a double dip of sorts and penalizes (as always) their owners and benefits either Wyndham or the BC resort alone. In either case it once again makes me happy I'm no longer part of this type of greedy operation that is always looking to make more and give less to the very owners they recruited to buy. 

Enjoy your corporate ATM experience folks. I'll continue to rent what we need for a couple hundred and then the fee, if any, is inconsequential. It beats the heck out of still paying to be an owner and the ever shrinking advantages to that "status".


----------



## siesta

timeos2 said:


> The Wyndham system is (was?) a great one because a point is (was?) a point. The difference in amenities, if any, are accounted for by requiring more points for the more feature filled resorts and less for those that are older, smaller or offer less amenities. There was never any cash required nor should there be. If they want to reduce the points required to the same level at BC as at Star Island and THEN add a fee I could understand it. But this is a double dip of sorts and penalizes (as always) their owners and benefits either Wyndham or the BC resort alone. In either case it once again makes me happy I'm no longer part of this type of greedy operation that is always looking to make more and give less to the very owners they recruited to buy.
> 
> Enjoy your corporate ATM experience folks. I'll continue to rent what we need for a couple hundred and then the fee, if any, is inconsequential. It beats the heck out of still paying to be an owner and the ever shrinking advantages to that "status".


 its not all doom and gloom, TimeOS... The fixed grid for exchanging thru rci sometimes  has its benefits over the tpu system and renting. I recently exchanged 74000 points for a studio for the Crane in barbados for the week of fathers day weekend. Which including cost of points and exchange fee is about $600 for the week. This is a $300+ night(then +tax) room renting from the hotel,and rci extra vacations are renting similar dates for $1700+, and which you know from common experience is undercutting what normal owners would rent for.


----------



## Ron2

*My Timeshare ATM*



timeos2 said:


> The Wyndham system is (was?) a great one because a point is (was?) a point. The difference in amenities, if any, are accounted for by requiring more points for the more feature filled resorts and less for those that are older, smaller or offer less amenities. There was never any cash required nor should there be. If they want to reduce the points required to the same level at BC as at Star Island and THEN add a fee I could understand it. But this is a double dip of sorts and penalizes (as always) their owners and benefits either Wyndham or the BC resort alone. In either case it once again makes me happy I'm no longer part of this type of greedy operation that is always looking to make more and give less to the very owners they recruited to buy.
> 
> Enjoy your corporate ATM experience folks. I'll continue to rent what we need for a couple hundred and then the fee, if any, is inconsequential. It beats the heck out of still paying to be an owner and the ever shrinking advantages to that "status".



I know your remark about Wyndham being a “corporate ATM” was in no way meant to be a complement of the Wyndham system. However, I think you hit the proverbial nail on the head. When I need cash fast I go to my ATM and when I want to quickly make a reservation in the Wyndham system I go to my computer and in an instant, I have a reservation. No waiting around or exchange fees from RCI or II to deal with. When I use my ATM card outside my local banking system, I expect to pay a fee for the convenience. Likewise if I choose to reserve at a resort other than my home resorts, I expect to pay additional fees for conveniences that are provided and most likely paid for by the HOA (owners) of the resort I’m visiting. Whether you like it or not there is no free ride, somebody is paying for it and if my HOA at Bonnet Creek feels they need to charge a fee for the shuttle service to Disney to better manage owner maintenance fees, so be it.
Corporate ATM ??  -- I prefer to call it my Timeshare ATM.


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## rickandcindy23

I called this morning again, and Shonda (not sure of spelling) said the fee is per day, mandatory fee, whether you use the shuttle services or not.  It's definitely for every day of your reservation.  

Bonnet Creek has figured out a new way to make money from everyone who stays at Bonnet Creek.  I am disgusted that once again, Wyndham's right hand has no idea what the left hand is doing.  It's amazing to me how misinformed Wyndham employees are.


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## staceyeileen

While I don't like the fee, resort fees are pretty standard in the Orlando area.  Can't say I blame them.


----------



## MichaelColey

staceyeileen said:


> While I don't like the fee, resort fees are pretty standard in the Orlando area. Can't say I blame them.


There are some, but I would consider it *far* from standard.


----------



## tuc

I wish there were less confusion about this $12/day fee.

I have a hold with RCI for an exchange into Bonnet Creek in August, 2013. The RCI pages didn't say anything about fees, but when I called the resort they said there would be a $12/day fee to cover the Disney shuttle, and that it was not optional.

I notice that this page mentions the fee: http://www.wyndhambonnetcreek.com/amenities.html ("all guests," "mandatory")
But this page says it's optional: http://www.tripadvisor.com/VacationRentalReview-g34515-d1651321.html ("only charged if guests use the shuttle" - error? This affiliated page says not optional.)
However, it could be argued that these pages are hotel-oriented, not timeshare-oriented.

I don't like the increasing trend to treat exchangers less well than owners. After all, the people exchanging *out* of Bonnet Creek will not want to be treated as less than owners at the resort they end up in. That's the idea of "exchange."


----------



## lcml11

tuc said:


> I wish there were less confusion about this $12/day fee.
> 
> I have a hold with RCI for an exchange into Bonnet Creek in August, 2013. The RCI pages didn't say anything about fees, but when I called the resort they said there would be a $12/day fee to cover the Disney shuttle, and that it was not optional.
> 
> I notice that this page mentions the fee: http://www.wyndhambonnetcreek.com/amenities.html ("all guests," "mandatory")
> But this page says it's optional: http://www.tripadvisor.com/VacationRentalReview-g34515-d1651321.html ("only charged if guests use the shuttle" - error? This affiliated page says not optional.)
> However, it could be argued that these pages are hotel-oriented, not timeshare-oriented.
> 
> I don't like the increasing trend to treat exchangers less well than owners. After all, the people exchanging *out* of Bonnet Creek will not want to be treated as less than owners at the resort they end up in. That's the idea of "exchange."



I would think it would not matter what Trip Advisor said.  The Wyndham site that you quoted said there was.  I would assume that you would be charged.  If you are not consider it a bonus.


----------



## am1

What if 1 leaves early.  

I do not like the fee, how it was implemented but I still think Bonnet Creek will be a highly desired resort in Orlando.


----------



## staceyeileen

MichaelColey said:


> There are some, but I would consider it *far* from standard.



Probably not standard for timeshares no (only vacation village comes to mind) but many many resorts in the area charge a resort fee.


----------



## rickandcindy23

staceyeileen said:


> Probably not standard for timeshares no (only vacation village comes to mind) but many many resorts in the area charge a resort fee.



Name a few of these resorts that have fees.  I don't know of any other than Disney, and Disney does provide services that Wyndham does not.  So I pay $95 fee to Disney for transportation, and I get *FREE parking *at the parks, plus I get *transportation to/ from the airport*.  I even dislike the Disney fee, because we don't use the services, and we don't need the free parking as pass holders.  But I can exchange into Disney cheaper than I can use my own points, including that $95 fee, so I pay the fee and take the exchange. 

Bonnet Creek is not that special.  Hiltons, Marriotts and Vistanas do not charge any fees at all, and all of them have superior internet service over Bonnet Creek.  

I would never use the shuttles at Bonnet Creek, so why do I have to pay for them?  That is wrong.  I will never stay at Bonnet Creek again.  I would rather stay at Disney, or any other nice place.


----------



## tschwa2

I think Summer Bay Resorts charges for their shuttle on a per person per use basis.

I think a few others do too but also on a per person per use basis.


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## vacationhopeful

tschwa2 said:


> I think Summer Bay Resorts charges for their shuttle on a per person per use basis.



There are independantly contracted shuttle services to Disney. Like the airport shuttle services, you schedule a pickup time. They charge by person and WHERE yoou are pickup.


----------



## csxjohn

tuc said:


> ...I don't like the increasing trend to treat exchangers less well than owners. After all, the people exchanging *out* of Bonnet Creek will not want to be treated as less than owners at the resort they end up in. That's the idea of "exchange."



Exactly what I've been saying for a while now.  I don't mind a fee for something as long as everyone staying there is paying it but to charge more to an exchanger is just wrong.  I should get the same rights and benefits that the owner of the week I'm using is entitled to.

I owned at a resort that claimed to charge renters and exchangers for Wi Fi but in reality, the password was in the book in the unit when you check in.  It  bothered me that the exchangers were going to be treated differently.

When I give my week to an exchange company, the person taking it should be treated just like it was me using the week.   OK I'm done, I said it too many times already.


----------



## bnoble

> Name a few of these resorts that have fees.


http://www.betterbidding.com/index.php?showtopic=118090

(note that the prior poster said "Probably not standard for timeshares no (only vacation village comes to mind) but many many resorts in the area charge a resort fee.")


----------



## rickandcindy23

But we are on a Timeshare User Group discussion board.  Since I get my vacations from exchange companies, I have to reiterate that Disney at least offers some value for their fee.  I am always rethinking my choice to stay on Disney property, even for a cheap exchange.  That $95 fee bugs me because we don't use those special services.  I didn't ride a single bus last week.   

VV at P charges for internet, I believe, plus they charge for using the safe.  Kind of tacky.  But that is why the exchanges are cheap.


----------



## ronparise

rickandcindy23 said:


> But we are on a Timeshare User Group discussion board.  Since I get my vacations from exchange companies, I have to reiterate that Disney at least offers some value for their fee.  I am always rethinking my choice to stay on Disney property, even for a cheap exchange.  That $95 fee bugs me because we don't use those special services.  I didn't ride a single bus last week.
> 
> VV at P charges for internet, I believe, plus they charge for using the safe.  Kind of tacky.  But that is why the exchanges are cheap.



VV@ P does indeed charge an amenities fee and it includes things like wi-fi, the in room safe  i agree tacky) and transportation (shuttles around the property and to local shopping (publix and cvs) as well as shuttles to the parks) the fee is $25/week; hardly comparable to disneys 95 or bonnet creeks 84. Oh and the maintenance fees here are significantly less than disney or bonnet creek too as are the tpu required to exchange in


----------



## ronparise

csxjohn said:


> Exactly what I've been saying for a while now.  I don't mind a fee for something as long as everyone staying there is paying it but to charge more to an exchanger is just wrong.  I should get the same rights and benefits that the owner of the week I'm using is entitled to.
> 
> I owned at a resort that claimed to charge renters and exchangers for Wi Fi but in reality, the password was in the book in the unit when you check in.  It  bothered me that the exchangers were going to be treated differently.
> 
> When I give my week to an exchange company, the person taking it should be treated just like it was me using the week.   OK I'm done, I said it too many times already.



not nearly enough, Id say

Id also add renters. There is no reason for my guest to be treated any differently than me, when I visit


----------



## am1

rickandcindy23 said:


> I will never stay at Bonnet Creek again.  I would rather stay at Disney, or any other nice place.



What are the odds that this is true?  If this is truly the case (I doubt it) I will actually profit from this if Wyndham owners stay away in spite.


----------



## bnoble

> But we are on a Timeshare User Group discussion board.fan of Bonnet.


Fine. But, the previous poster said that such fees are common for non-timeshare resorts in the area.  You asked for some.  I gave you a very long list.  That those are not timeshares does not invalidate the previous poster's point.

(I don't know why I bother.)


----------



## CO skier

Sandy VDH said:


> Starting Feb 15th, they are starting to charge for Transportation Shuttles/Parking/Golf Carts by charging every reservation a $12 per reservation per day charge.



If this works out, maybe next year BC will pad their maintenance fees by  charging a $15/day bathroom usage fee for non-owners.  It would be a better value -- everyone actually uses them.


----------



## CO skier

am1 said:


> I will actually profit from this if Wyndham owners stay away in spite.



Renters will be just as POed by this kind of extortion.


----------



## staceyeileen

Like I said, I don't like the fee at all and I'm not sure I will opt to stay there and pay it in the future.  I also think it is way too high at $12/day, however it seemed like most people in this thread were complaining about the existence of the fee at all not necessarily the amount.  To me Bonnet Creek seems to be a bit different than other resorts in the system in that it is VERY popular with renters (It seems like half of the folks on the DIS stay there ;-) ) and located an area where it directly competes with non-timeshare resorts that offer many of the same amenities like a lazy river, etc.  That's why I was making the comparison to the non-timeshare resorts that charge a resort fee. 

By the way, they may as well just call it exactly that - a resort fee.  I don't know why resorts try to justify the fee by saying it's for the bus, or wifi, or even the safe (Really? LOL) when it is charged regardless of the use of those amenities.


----------



## JimMIA

Be careful what you wish for.  Can you imagine the results of a bathroom boycott?


----------



## Twinkstarr

bnoble said:


> Fine. But, the previous poster said that such fees are common for non-timeshare resorts in the area.  You asked for some.  I gave you a very long list.  That those are not timeshares does not invalidate the previous poster's point.
> 
> (I don't know why I bother.)



Between this and the DVC exchange thread, my head hurt and I've just been reading.


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## rickandcindy23

bnoble said:


> http://www.betterbidding.com/index.php?showtopic=118090
> 
> (note that the prior poster said "Probably not standard for timeshares no (only vacation village comes to mind) but many many resorts in the area charge a resort fee.")


Yes, I saw that, Brian.  I am not being stubborn.  I am just pointing out that we are talking about timeshare, and Bonnet Creek is setting itself up as a resort worthy of extra fees, when in fact they don't even offer airport transportation.  Maybe they will add it, and then it would be worthy of $12 per day mandatory fees per day, per unit.  I can see airport transporation as a positive addition for people who don't care to drive, or cannot drive, but they aren't saying they are adding anything.  

I don't care what Buena Vista Suites or the other various hotels charge for services.  That is not a timeshare, and I think it's off-subject.  I also do know that many resorts charge fees for shuttles, when you use the shuttles (not mandatory to pay for them), but I don't want to plan my day based on a bus schedule.  

I never stay anywhere but timeshare in Orlando, and as a DVC owner, I can add nights to a trip and get cheaper airfare by flying in on weeknights.  I pay nothing extra as a DVC owner, even for ME.  Maybe that is going to be the future of DVC as well.  So far, they don't even charge a housekeeping fee if I stay one night.  I would use Bonnet Creek for nightly stays, but as a Wyndham owner, I would still incur fees, and it's not about the money, it's the principle.  

Mandatory fees for services you never use?  Most people drive and don't use the shuttles.  Now if they are charging for it, how many people are going to use the shuttles?  Maybe they will have to add more, because people will think, "Hey, I can at least save on gas and parking by using the shuttle."  This could backfire. Just sayin'.


----------



## tschwa2

I kind of hate per unit charges in that I feel like I am not getting my money's worth unless I have a larger unit and 6-8 people using the amenities for which I am charged. If it was something that you only get one of regardless of the size of party/ unit that is one thing but it isn't in this case.  Studios and one bedroom units with only 2-3 should not be charged the same as 6-12 person 2 and 3 bedroom units.


----------



## timeos2

csxjohn said:


> Exactly what I've been saying for a while now.  I don't mind a fee for something as long as everyone staying there is paying it but to charge more to an exchanger is just wrong.  I should get the same rights and benefits that the owner of the week I'm using is entitled to.
> 
> I owned at a resort that claimed to charge renters and exchangers for Wi Fi but in reality, the password was in the book in the unit when you check in.  It  bothered me that the exchangers were going to be treated differently.
> 
> When I give my week to an exchange company, the person taking it should be treated just like it was me using the week.   OK I'm done, I said it too many times already.



It can't be said enough.  That was a basis for the exchange system from it's inception. I credit this growing menace to equal trades, with one if not the original thanks to DVC in the late 90's, to the decline in the perceived value of exchanging on par with the explosion of RCI/II inexpensive rentals at the owners expense. It degrades the value and increases frustration so why pay to take part in it at all? 

Buy & own to use. Rent to "exchange". It is a far better and more reliable way to go.


----------



## timeos2

bnoble said:


> Fine. But, the previous poster said that such fees are common for non-timeshare resorts in the area.  You asked for some.  I gave you a very long list.  That those are not timeshares does not invalidate the previous poster's point.
> 
> (I don't know why I bother.)



Thats why we choose timeshares over hotels. If the timeshares add "service fees" for things we don't even use then the value is degraded.  They are two different things although both hopefully provide a place to sleep for at least a night.


----------



## Renny30

ronparise said:


> The glam of Bonnet Creek, is just that Glam.  the downside is that anything you want to do outside the resort, requires a car, and a ride Its a project to get to the grocery or drug store
> 
> I have come to prefer, Star Island where you still need a car, but you park right outside your door and all the services and shopping and restaurants of Kissimmee are just outside the gate.



Less points too.


----------



## timeos2

ronparise said:


> The glam of Bonnet Creek, is just that Glam.  the downside is that anything you want to do outside the resort, requires a car, and a ride Its a project to get to the grocery or drug store
> 
> I have come to prefer, Star Island where you still need a car, but you park right outside your door and all the services and shopping and restaurants of Kissimmee are just outside the gate.



Whether it's DVC or BC staying within the Disney property envelope is way overrated. It is worth doing once or twice just for the experience but after that is is far more hassle and unnecessary travel by car/bus/shuttle/whatever than is needed or enjoyable. The level of quality, services and easy of access is much better in the surrounding plentiful resorts.


----------



## vacationhopeful

Renny30 said:


> Less points too.



Less RCI Points.

Less TPU points.

Less Wyndham Points.

And more and much better places for FOOD are only outside of Bonnet Creek.

At least DVC learned HOW to get real restrauants in their resorts.


----------



## MichaelColey

staceyeileen said:


> While I don't like the fee, resort fees are pretty standard in the Orlando area. Can't say I blame them.





MichaelColey said:


> There are some, but I would consider it *far* from standard.





staceyeileen said:


> Probably not standard for timeshares no (only vacation village comes to mind) but many many resorts in the area charge a resort fee.





rickandcindy23 said:


> Name a few of these resorts that have fees. I don't know of any other than Disney, and Disney does provide services that Wyndham does not.





bnoble said:


> http://www.betterbidding.com/index.php?showtopic=118090
> 
> (note that the prior poster said "Probably not standard for timeshares no (only vacation village comes to mind) but many many resorts in the area charge a resort fee.")


FWIW, that's maybe 40 or so out of 500+ hotels in the area.  Like I said, some do but it's far from standard.  The standard is "no resort fee", and these are the exceptions.  Many  of those hotels add the "resort fees" so that they can play games with pricing on Priceline and Hotwire.

I don't particularly care for resort fees anywhere (I prefer a simple apples to apples comparison), but I particularly despise them when the hotel/timeshare doesn't offer anything of special value.


----------



## rickandcindy23

If you decide you will go to BC anyway, say through an exchange, you can use the shuttle service daily and save on parking for your car and take advantage.  

But then your thought process goes further: "Hey, I guess I will make reservations for Disney dining this time." So now Wyndham is helping Disney sell their food.  How nice of Wyndham to do that for Disney.   If BC decides to offer transportation to/ from the airport with even more extra fees, then they are really helping Disney with food sales. :rofl:


----------



## rickandcindy23

> Many of those hotels add the "resort fees" so that they can play games with pricing on Priceline and Hotwire.



So true.  The firefighters Rick works with are always bragging about their 3-4 star hotel stays and actually got turned off by parking fees by these resorts near Disneyworld.


----------



## jjmanthei05

What would happen is someone doesn't show up for their stay? Do they still get charged? We are staying there March 16-24 but we have our rooms from the 15 - 24 just so we have the room when we show up (Early morning flight). Since I am not staying there the first night of my reservation, am i still required to pay the fee for that night? 

Jason


----------



## Cdn Gal

JimMIA said:


> Be careful what you wish for.  Can you imagine the results of a bathroom boycott?



:rofl:  lol  :hysterical:


----------



## jjmanthei05

I just got this email....

Dear Owner:

As an owner at the Wyndham Bonnet Creek Resort or CLUB WYNDHAM Access owner, you are probably aware that the resort provides shuttle transportation to and from Walt Disney World® Resort, seven days a week for all individuals staying at the resort.  Effective Friday, Feb. 15, 2013, the Bonnet Creek Resort Vacation Condominium Association, Inc. will begin implementing a $12 per unit/per day transportation fee.  The fee applies to all reservations, except those made for units to be occupied by deeded owners at Wyndham Bonnet Creek Resort, CLUB WYNDHAM Access owners and CLUB WYNDHAM Presidential Reserve owners.

Sincerely,
Richard Scinta, Resort Manager
On behalf of the Board of Directors of
Bonnet Creek Resort Vacation Condominium Association, Inc.

6277 Sea Harbor Drive, Orlando, FL 32821


----------



## jmurp62

*Bs fee email received today*

Dear Guest:

Thank you for your recent reservation at Wyndham Bonnet Creek Resort.  As you may know, the resort provides shuttle transportation to and from Walt Disney World® Resort, seven days a week for all individuals staying at the resort.  Effective Friday, Feb. 15, 2013, the Bonnet Creek Resort Vacation Condominium Association, Inc. will begin implementing a $12 per unit/per day transportation fee.  The fee applies to all reservations, except those made for units to be occupied by deeded owners at Wyndham Bonnet Creek Resort, CLUB WYNDHAM Access owners and CLUB WYNDHAM Presidential Reserve owners.

Sincerely,
Richard Scinta, Resort Manager
Wyndham Bonnet Creek Resort

OK, So I received this email today. I guess it is official, for me at least. What great customer service huh? No sorry for any inconvenience. No thanks for understanding! Thinking of how to phrase my response of thanks to Mr Scinta.


----------



## Whoozr

*it's official*

Dear Owner:
 ;
As an owner at the Wyndham Bonnet Creek Resort or CLUB WYNDHAM Access owner, you are probably aware that the resort provides shuttle transportation to and from Walt Disney World® Resort, seven days a week for all individuals staying at the resort.  Effective Friday, Feb. 15, 2013, the Bonnet Creek Resort Vacation Condominium Association, Inc. will begin implementing a $12 per unit/per day transportation fee.  The fee applies to all reservations, except those made for units to be occupied by deeded owners at Wyndham Bonnet Creek Resort, CLUB WYNDHAM Access owners and CLUB WYNDHAM Presidential Reserve owners.
 ;
Sincerely,
Richard Scinta, Resort Manager
On behalf of the Board of Directors of
Bonnet Creek Resort Vacation Condominium Association, Inc.



6277 Sea Harbor Drive, Orlando, FL 32821


----------



## CO skier

Here is NEXT year's letter :

Dear Guest:

Thank you for your recent reservation at Wyndham Bonnet Creek Resort. As you may know, each unit is equipped with at least one bathroom that operates 24-hours per day, seven days a week for all individuals staying at the resort. Effective Friday, Feb. 14, 2014, the Bonnet Creek Resort Vacation Condominium Association, Inc. will begin implementing a $15 per unit/per day plumbing fee. The fee applies to all reservations, except those made for units to be occupied by deeded owners at Wyndham Bonnet Creek Resort, CLUB WYNDHAM Access owners and CLUB WYNDHAM Presidential Reserve owners.

Sincerely,
..., Resort Manager
Wyndham Bonnet Creek Resort


----------



## Rent_Share

imho

:deadhorse:


----------



## antjmar

WOW! Its even posted on the website!


----------



## csxjohn

I still wonder how they are going to deal with people who have reservations confirmed for dates after Feb 15 that did not know about this when they booked?


----------



## rickandcindy23

I find it odd that the fee isn't saying it's mandatory for every night of the stay.  That is the CORRECT, ACCURATE, and LOGICAL way to say it.  Stupid company.  Their statement is ambiguous; you can read it however you want to read it.


----------



## lcml11

csxjohn said:


> I still wonder how they are going to deal with people who have reservations confirmed for dates after Feb 15 that did not know about this when they booked?



As it relates to the Transportation Fee, apparently confirmed reservations after the majic date will pay.

As it relates to the plumbing/bathroom fee, I did not see that one on the web site, I would not put a whole lot of weight to that one.


----------



## jjmanthei05

rickandcindy23 said:


> I find it odd that the fee isn't saying it's mandatory for every night of the stay.  That is the CORRECT, ACCURATE, and LOGICAL way to say it.  Stupid company.  Their statement is ambiguous; you can read it however you want to read it.



Since it says every "day", do you have to pay for it on the day you are checking out as well? So then the fee would actually be $96 for a week.

Jason


----------



## jjmanthei05

I also find it interesting\curious\funny that this was sent 16 days before the first day they were going to charge the fee. Does that allow them to hold off as long as possible and still say "You could have canceled your reservation if you didn't want to pay it."? 

Jason


----------



## timeos2

*Hit them til it hurts rankings*

Remember folks - all "1's" or "F's" on the RCI guest comment cards can be a rather powerful tool..... Just sayin'.


----------



## Rent_Share

Wyndham can spoil my entire stay by having ANY contact from corporate sales.  

All categories become 1 because of their unwelcomed intrusion on my vacation


----------



## lcml11

jjmanthei05 said:


> I also find it interesting\curious\funny that this was sent 16 days before the first day they were going to charge the fee. Does that allow them to hold off as long as possible and still say "You could have canceled your reservation if you didn't want to pay it."?
> 
> Jason



The 15 day cancellation rule would stand unless the owner called Reservations or Owner Care and a supervisor granted a waiver.

I would hope that people renting units to others would not pass the additional costs onto their poor customer.  That would not be a good thing and would potientially open the rentor up to complaints or challenges to their agreement.


----------



## CO skier

lcml11 said:


> I would hope that people renting units to others would not pass the additional costs onto their poor customer.  That would not be a good thing.



The extortion is, presumably, extracted at check-in.  Many renters and exchangers will be surprised.  Wyndham does not have the contact info for owner's/rentor's guests, so those owners will have to inform their customers of this new fee.


----------



## cocodog

lcml11 said:


> As it relates to the Transportation Fee, apparently confirmed reservations after the majic date will pay.
> 
> As it relates to the plumbing/bathroom fee, I did not see that one on the web site, I would not put a whole lot of weight to that one.





csxjohn said:


> I still wonder how they are going to deal with people who have reservations confirmed for dates after Feb 15 that did not know about this when they booked?



The release/policy is being as poorly handled as possible. Most hospitality companies that institute a new fee do so based on a given date. For example, all new reservations after [x date] will be required to pay a mandatory transportation fee of $12 for each night staying at the resort starting [x date]. All existing reservations made prior to [x date] will not be required to pay the fee.

In other words, you grandfather in all existing reservations in the system since they did not know about the fees (because the fee did not exist) before they made a final decision to contract the resort to stay based on the pricing and marketing message they read at the time of reservation.

By charging renters who have existing reservation before the announcement of the new fees is severely flirting with the Federal Trade Commission act 15 U.S.C.§ 45(a).


----------



## Don40

Wyndham Bonnet Creek management does not care about their customers, I personally have seen the decline in room upkeep, customer service, and general resort quality.  BC have been on a steady decline for the past three years.  We use to stay 12 times a year, now 2-3 because of the resort management attitude to their guest.  

This new fee will make it easier to stay at a Disney Resort now and get a real bus service. 
Don


----------



## ronparise

lcml11 said:


> The 15 day cancellation rule would stand unless the owner called Reservations or Owner Care and a supervisor granted a waiver.
> 
> I would hope that people renting units to others would not pass the additional costs onto their poor customer.  That would not be a good thing and would potientially open the rentor up to complaints or challenges to their agreement.



Of course the charge will be passed on the the customer...I agree it has to be clearly stated in the agreement, but in the end the customer will pay..or you wont find any Bonnet Creek units for rent.

 if the rentor, cant collect to cover costs, They will find another sandbox to play in


----------



## timeos2

That the maintenance and housekeeping may be slipping comes as no surprise. For yeas we've felt those services at most Wyndham resorts has been so-so at best - actually bad at some.  It dates back to the last couple years of Fairfield so it isn't a new problem, it just takes awhile to notice at newer resorts.


----------



## Sandy VDH

This is collected at the resort.  No way to collect from renter in advance and then pay the resort.


----------



## vacationhopeful

Sandy VDH said:


> This is collected at the resort.  No way to collect from renter in advance and then pay the resort.



Renters will just argue with Paypal (no notice on this resort fee) who will suck ALL the rental amount out of the owners/landlord bank account. 

Wyndham is trying to crush their owners renting of units --- while selling points to the tenants by saying, "buy into the points system and as a owner be treated like a partner in this wonderful resort". 

Wyndham will just forget to say, be prepared for 5-7% annual MF increases, a special assessment every 5-7 years and then if you try to rent a week or two to cover the MFs, we will treat your guest as a unwanted step-child.


----------



## lcml11

ronparise said:


> Of course the charge will be passed on the the customer...I agree it has to be clearly stated in the agreement, but in the end the customer will pay..or you wont find any Bonnet Creek units for rent.
> 
> if the rentor, cant collect to cover costs, They will find another sandbox to play in



I give up.  What would you do for the transition period where their is not a provision covering future fee imposition in the contract and/or there was no written contract.

This problem would primarily affect the large rentors that use the book cancel rebook process and all other rentors to the extent they do not get grandfathered for the fee purpose.  Also, possably those rentors that have existing reservations that the guest pass has not been added at this point.


----------



## vacationhopeful

lcml11 said:


> I give up.  What would you do for the transition period where their is not a provision covering future fee imposition in the contract and/or there was no written contract.



Robert,
You email the renter with a notice of additional resort fee -- hopefully ASAP and before their checkin date. If they bitch and whine, offer to SPLIT the cost with a credit to a future rental. BUT tell them to send you a copy of their checkout statement WHERE they had paid the new charge. If still unhappy, give them a FUTURE CREDIT good for 1 year off another rental for the $84 fee. No check out statement --- no proof they had incurred an undisclosed cost.

Remember, you are in business and you can't collect money to pay the bills by not getting your weeks rented and having HAPPY CAMPERS. The front page of my rental agreement has a section to disclose ADDITIONAL FEES. One resort charges the $10.60 weekly safe fee => hence the big blank space where I write in "Safe Rental Weekly fee of $10.60" or I write in "NONE KNOWN AT THIS TIME". That is what would cover me on this new BC fee -- as long as I promptly send out the notice, "Dang, an unknown prior fee of $84 for "PARKING/bus/Resort Robbery" has been added to ALL Stays as of 2/15/03" applies to LEASE SECTION #7. 

Called CYA and a written & signed lease. And always fill in all the blanks on the lease.


----------



## lcml11

vacationhopeful said:


> Renters will just argue with Paypal (no notice on this resort fee) who will suck ALL the rental amount out of the owners/landlord bank account.
> 
> Wyndham is trying to crush their owners renting of units --- while selling points to the tenants by saying, "buy into the points system and as a owner be treated like a partner in this wonderful resort".
> 
> Wyndham will just forget to say, be prepared for 5-7% annual MF increases, a special assessment every 5-7 years and then if you try to rent a week or two to cover the MFs, we will treat your guest as a unwanted step-child.



I would think a rentor would have a difficult time defending against this manuver or a credit card complaint if a credit card was used or against a administrave complaint with various authorities.  The simplist way is to just re-imburse the customer the fee if they are charged one and be done with it.  Who knows, you may get a customer for life that way.


----------



## ronparise

lcml11 said:


> I give up.  What would you do for the transition period where their is not a provision covering future fee imposition in the contract and/or there was no written contract.



Give up because Im not a charity operation? There is only so much that I can absorb

I would of course honor any agreement. written or verbal or just assumed, but

going forward, since I assume that the resort is collecting this at check in,  I would simply advise my customer that they would be zinged when they check in. And that perhaps they would like to consider Star Island 

People seem to like Bonnet creek, I know I do, so I think that there will still be plenty of folks willing pony up another couple of dollars to stay there..At my favorite resort the parking fee is $12 a day, which I present as as the best deal in town...and it is.  Its not exactly the same, because if you dont have a car, you dont have to pay...The point is I do let folks know what they will be charged...nobody likes surprises


----------



## Pietin

I do believe my MF at GC are more than at BC.  I guess buying a small CWA contract would be the thing to do.  it should cover at all the trust resorts.  I just wonder if they would figure out you only own 63k or so that you only get 3.2 nights of parking and shuttle and have then have to pay for the 3.8 nights that the contract does not cover.


----------



## Sandy VDH

That is one reason why I don't rent as a business model.  I rent to friends and family, and via friends of friends, when I have extra points.  Only occassionaly do I rent to someone I do not know.

I have an upcoming rental.  I have a renter who is a coworker's wife, daugher and friend, who will be checking in on Feb 22.  1 week after the fee starts.  I just booked this week at the 60 day mark, at the end of december.  No notice of fees when I booked it, and no notice when I upgraded a few weeks laters.  I only found out about the fee and posted here (I was the OP) when I called to make sure the resort knew that I had multiple bookings back to back.

I was more upset about the added fee then they were.  They still view it as a better bargain and are very happy for what they get for the price the pay.

But you will get someone who complains about everything.


----------



## staceyeileen

So, we think that the folks at check-in know where points are deeded?  That just seems strange to me, seeing as how I get calls directly from Wyndham and THEY don't even seem to know where my points are deeded.  (For some reason, they always tell me I own at Nashville...  )


----------



## rdiamond62

I'm noticing that some people are deciding to possibly purchase a small CWA account to avoid these new fees. Keep in mind how you may feel when Wyndham or the HOA realizes all of these additional sales are takeng place based on their lower than expected revenue stream from this new fee. They may very well decide that all guests (BC and CWA owners included) will have to pay this fee and then many people may be stuck with additional points that they might have not needed and the additional fees associated with those points. Just a bit of foresight.

Rich


----------



## lcml11

rdiamond62 said:


> I'm noticing that some people are deciding to possibly purchase a small CWA account to avoid these new fees. Keep in mind how you may feel when Wyndham or the HOA realizes all of these additional sales are takeng place based on their lower than expected revenue stream from this new fee. They may very well decide that all guests (BC and CWA owners included) will have to pay this fee and then many people may be stuck with additional points that they might have not needed and the additional fees associated with those points. Just a bit of foresight.
> 
> Rich



People are not going to buy a CWA contract just to get out of the fees.  If they use this as an excuse, they just want more points to use.  Which is a valid reason to purchase.


----------



## am1

lcml11 said:


> People are not going to buy a CWA contract just to get out of the fees.  If they use this as an excuse, they just want more points to use.  Which is a valid reason to purchase.



Not if one travels there and possibly other places a lot.


----------



## timeos2

Spending thousands to "avoid" a $2X fee - or simply choosing a different resort - is Sales Weasel thinking. 

"Here, you can (whispers 'possibly') get up to hundreds in savings ('over 40 years') from housekeeping, guest certificates ('until we change the rules next week') and 50% points discounts ('at Branson in late January') as a Hornswaggled VIP! And it only costs 2,765,643 points ('until we double it')! We can take your old worn out points ('for $.00001') and turn them into 'Hornies' for only $56,478.999!  Why you'll be virtually ('sending me') vacationing for free for ('my') life!  And then you can use your points to cruise ('at four times the cash cost or more'), pay your fees ('at $.25 on the dollar') and deed this all to your 1 year old so he can be Hornswaggled virtually from birth! ('of course you can't sell to anyone else as the Hornswaggle VIP won't transfer but by then the ongoing fees will force you to sell for $.01 on the dollar anyway'). Here - sign now! ('I've got a lunch date with that hot Weasel at the next table') We can finance it ('for 45 years') at only $900 per month ('plus another $650 in fees') at competitive ('if your money costs you 17%') rates!

You'll take it? Great. Please come back in 30 days ('after the rescind period is well over') to hear about our new ('raked over the') Coals VIP+! Only 5,950,766 points needed and we give you a FREE USA Today each and every second Tuesday of any week you stay with us! 

Welcome to the world of Wyndham VIP!! ('Sucker!!'). Trust me , your family will remember this forever ('and wonder what the H*LL where you thinking?')" 

They love to twist the logic into pretzels - and somehow being Hornswaggled seems like a great idea!  As does spending thousands to "save" $25.  There really may be one born every minute I guess.  

Gotta run. I'm saving thousands on repairs today by buying a new car for 5 times that (plus interest)! I don't know how they can offer such deals but I better hurry or someone else will be driving my Swagglemobile VIP Edition.


----------



## ronparise

John..

I dont think you have to be VIP to avoid this new fee, and I dont think you have to to have purchased your Bonnet Creek or CWA points from the developer to avoid it.

I assume that the 168000 eoy  CWA contract I bought  for a buck will do it. Of course spending $412 a year on maintenance to avoid a $12 a day charge seems like throwing good money after bad. To make that pay off financially Id have to visit Bonnet Creek 35 days a year

As true as your VIP rant might be its not a good fit here


----------



## ronparise

someone on the Wyndham Owners forum took a slightly different look at this. He calculated that $12 a day adds up to a $5,000,000 a year bump in the hoa's annual income.  That seems like a lot for a shuttle system

1150 suites, 365 days a year,  $12 a day  =  5 million a year

The number that jumps out at me is $13,800 a day...I think I might buy a bus and offer my services at other resorts


On a somewhat related topic, Wyndhams Grand Desert resort offers free limo service to Gold and Platinum owners (and it doesnt matter which resort you own your points at)  And if a car is available the service is available to any guest.  Because of how isolated Bonnet Creek is (you really cant walk to anything  off site) I thought a limo service would be a good idea for someone


----------



## jjmanthei05

ronparise said:


> someone on the Wyndham Owners forum took a slightly different look at this. He calculated that $12 a day adds up to a $5,000,000 a year bump in the hoa's annual income.  That seems like a lot for a shuttle system
> 
> 1150 suites, 365 days a year,  $12 a day  =  5 million a year
> 
> The number that jumps out at me is $13,800 a day...I think I might buy a bus and offer my services at other resorts
> 
> 
> On a somewhat related topic, Wyndhams Grand Desert resort offers free limo service to Gold and Platinum owners (and it doesnt matter which resort you own your points at)  And if a car is available the service is available to any guest.  Because of how isolated Bonnet Creek is (you really cant walk to anything  off site) I thought a limo service would be a good idea for someone



You probably have to cut your 5 mil figure in half because of people staying at BC who are PR/Access/BC owners. 

Jason


----------



## vacationhopeful

I wonder WHAT the negative number will be on Trip Advisor and other web sites for this fee ... bet it will cost MORE than $2.5 million in ADS for Wyndham to SPIN DOCTOR "the positive" on sucking more $$ out of guests.


----------



## ronparise

jjmanthei05 said:


> You probably have to cut your 5 mil figure in half because of people staying at BC who are PR/Access/BC owners.
> 
> Jason



Or they can double the fee if it doesnt generate enough


----------



## pacodemountainside

ronparise said:


> John..
> 
> I dont think you have to be VIP to avoid this new fee, and I dont think you have to to have purchased your Bonnet Creek or CWA points from the developer to avoid it.
> 
> I assume that the 168000 eoy  CWA contract I bought  for a buck will do it. Of course spending $412 a year on maintenance to avoid a $12 a day charge seems like throwing good money after bad. To make that pay off financially Id have to visit Bonnet Creek 35 days a year
> 
> As true as your VIP rant might be its not a good fit here
> 
> 
> On a somewhat related topic, Wyndhams Grand Desert resort offers free limo service to Gold and Platinum owners (and it doesnt matter which resort you own your points at) And if a car is available the service is available to any guest. Because of how isolated Bonnet Creek is (you really cant walk to anything off site) I thought a limo service would be a good idea for someone
> __________________
> Ron Parise
> my website



Ron:

Your  entrepreneurial spirit never slows down.

You could take that 168K CWA and split in half  and sell   84K to Pietin for $2.00 and  double your  money and cut days required to break even in   1/2  or 18!.

It is interesting GD  can provide free limo to   Platinum and Gold. Since not on VIP  benefit chart assume owners   there eat as does not appear  paid for by sales.  Also, provides free shuttle to Harrahs and Rio Suites  which is nice if ones enjoys   all the complimentary drinks.

I would ball park GD HOA pays  as much  for this as BC does for its  former free shuttle.

This might give GD HOA some ideas  about charging  although there is  a tie in  with Harrahs and probably feeds them a lot of business!


Se la vie!


----------



## lcml11

pacodemountainside said:


> Ron:
> 
> Your  entrepreneurial spirit never slows down.
> 
> You could take that 168K CWA and split in half  and sell   84K to Pieten for $2.00 and  double your  money and cut days required to break even in   1/2  or 18!.
> 
> It is interesting GD  can provide free limo to   Platinum and Gold. Since not on VIP  benefit chart assume owners   there eat as does not appear  paid for by sales.  Also, provides free shuttle to Harrahs and Rio Suites  which is nice if ones enjoys   all the complimentary drinks.
> 
> I would ball park GD HOA pays  as much  for this as BC does for its  former free shuttle.
> 
> This might give GD HOA some ideas  about charging  although there is  a tie in  with Harrahs and probably feeds them a lot of business!
> 
> 
> Se la vie!



Na, the gambling interests would not be happy campers.


----------



## timeos2

jjmanthei05 said:


> You probably have to cut your 5 mil figure in half because of people staying at BC who are PR/Access/BC owners.
> 
> Jason



It will be tough to operate a SHUTTLE for only $2.5 million per year. I mean those moon trips are costly. 

What? They only go three miles down the road (and usually safely navigate re-entry)? Nevermind...


----------



## jjmanthei05

Does anyone has the HOA budget for BC? I wonder what % of the MF are we lowly non-bc owners subsidizing?

Jason


----------



## Pietin

pacodemountainside said:


> Ron:
> 
> Your  entrepreneurial spirit never slows down.
> 
> You could take that 168K CWA and split in half  and sell   84K to Pieten for $2.00 and  double your  money and cut days required to break even in   1/2  or 18!.
> 
> Se la vie!



Even with Ron's 84K I am out of his league.  I would love to be a mega renter but that would require VIP status at Wyndham and I only can afford resale.


----------



## Pietin

ronparise said:


> John..
> 
> I assume that the 168000 eoy  CWA contract I bought  for a buck will do it. Of course spending $412 a year on maintenance to avoid a $12 a day charge seems like throwing good money after bad. To make that pay off financially Id have to visit Bonnet Creek 35 days a year



Rational for additional purchase

An 84k CWA would work.  We stayed at Bonnet Creek at the Holidays for the past few years for 2 weeks.  At $12 x 14 days that is $168.  So 84K at an average of $5 per K is $420.  That leaves $252 in MFs.  If I used the 84K to reserve a 2br for 7 days at Glaser Canyon at 77K during quit time, and rent it for $300, I am up $48 but lose 7k points.  Take the 7K x $5 is 35 minus the 48 and I am up $13.  So I can afford an 84K at up to $13.  

Or I could buy in at VIP level and spend $$$.  

I not sure if I could sell it to the wife, she the one who says no that the owner updates.  She’ll probably make says just stay at somewhere else.  But then again I can find an auction that goes off when she sleeping, yah, that it.   

OK so I may have a problem, but I don’t know any 12 step program for timeshare addicts.


----------



## pacodemountainside

jjmanthei05 said:


> Does anyone has the HOA budget for BC? I wonder what % of the MF are we lowly non-bc owners subsidizing?
> 
> Jason



Try shooting the OP a PM!

"I am a VIP Plat owners and own AT Bonnet Creek. I also had to use 3 of my guest certs to book this 7 night stay, NOW on top of that, because I am sending a guest and NOT staying myself, my Guest is having to pay AGAIN, just because they are a guest."


----------



## bnoble

> bet it will cost MORE than $2.5 million in ADS for Wyndham


WVO doesn't care.  They are first and foremost in the business of selling timeshares.  They do also rent owner-deposited and unsold inventory, but that's a side business.  My guess is that the reduction in HOA fees to owners will be attractive from a sales perspective and outweigh the lost rentals resulting from the imposition of a Resort fee---a fee, mind you, that is comparable to that charged by many other Orlando-area properties.  The renters don't know that "most timeshares don't do that".  They just know that most places in Orlando at which they think to rent do.

Of course, I would rather not pay it (I don't own at BC nor do I have any CWA deeds) but I don't for a second think this will harm WVO in any material way.


----------



## JPD

Let them know you will not go to the resort presentation, also hit them on your survey.


----------



## MauiLea

*Additional FEES are a pain!*

This is just one way for Wyndham to make more money. Wyndham owners may not object because they seem to be exempt from the fee (at their home resort?). However, anyone else who trades in will be asked to pay the "MANDATORY" fee. 

If this kind of thing gets widespread, I am going to ask my timeshare at Maui Lea at Maui Hill, Hawaii to start instituting a mandatory $ 150 week fee for all NON-owners to cover the cost of electricity and resort amenities. Maybe I'll save some money on maintenance and let other guests pay.....hey, it happened to me at the Lawai Beach Resort, Kauai where there was some mandatory fee for electricity and resort amenities (mini-golf that I never used and the fitness room). And, although I was charged a mandatory fee for ELECTRICITY, the resort didn't have air conditioning. I was MAD. 

It's not fair. It's just another way to pass costs on to SOMEONE else to pay.

Hey, water is getting expensive. We ought to put in a mandatory surcharge for water. Hey...didn't you want those towels washed?

Oh....carting fees are high. Let's put in a mandatory surcharge for garbage disposal.

Oh...pest control. Want no bugs in your room? We'll charge you a mandatory surcharge if you want pest control.

OK...I am getting carried away.....


----------



## cmh

*Resort Fees are getting more scrutiny by the FTC*

If it looks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, it IS a duck. This is simply a "resort fee", just like more and more hotels are starting to charge "resort fees".  This practice is starting to backfire on the hotel industry.  Just as new regulations cracked down on the airline industry requiring them to disclose all fees BEFORE purchase, this may happen too for the "resort" industry.

For example, the FTC sent warning letters to 22 hotel operators warning them that their online reservations sites may violate the law.

FTC urges hotels to disclose resort fees up front

FTC Warns Hotel Operators that Price Quotes that Exclude Resort Fees and Other Mandatory Surcharges May Be Deceptive

I wish hotels or resorts would just add the fee into their regular published rates, especially when they say it is not possible to avoid paying the fee.  Some hotels are notorious for charging daily fees in "resort areas" like Hawaii, Caribbean, Las Vegas, etc., and those fees can add up. It's especially bad if the fee is not disclosed upfront when making the buying decision.

I guess the topic of resort fees has irked others enough that they are starting a petition against them, unless they are disclosed upfront. Since airlines must now disclose all fees upfront, it does seem reasonable that hotels, resorts and timeshares do the same. 

https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/pe...-commission-unless-added-quoted-room/bg8VlpLR


----------



## grandschnauzer

Another Wyndham surprise! It's still not on the BC website. I spent an hour+ on the phone getting answers  and grumbling.  I'm not going to be charged that fee but my guests are.

I have 4 people under contract to rent at Bonnet Creek at this time. I have to write each of them and tell them about the parking fee, and maybe loose my contract. Wyndham is not going to replace my guest certificate if they cancel. I'm just glad that I don't have anyone arriving on Feb 15th. I'd have to eat the points too! 

Going over to the Wyndham owners website next. Maybe I can get a rebellion stared.


----------



## DancingWaters

Well, I for one am beginning to be concerned about Wyndham's new shuttle fee to all Wyndham owners.  I feel as owners  at whatever resort that we have already dumped money into Wyndhams program and pay maintainance fees to use these facilities. I hope this trend doesn't continue at other resorts.


----------



## massvacationer

DancingWaters said:


> Well, I for one am beginning to be concerned about Wyndham's new shuttle fee to all Wyndham owners.  I feel as owners  at whatever resort that we have already dumped money into Wyndhams program and pay maintainance fees to use these facilities. I hope this trend doesn't continue at other resorts.



I agree.  I think all Wyndham Owners should be exempt - not just those with BC and CWA deeds.  The whole Fairshare Wyndham points system was set up so that owners could use all resorts interchangibly.   I think this violates the mini system concept.


----------



## am1

massvacationer said:


> I agree.  I think all Wyndham Owners should be exempt - not just those with BC and CWA deeds.  The whole Fairshare Wyndham points system was set up so that owners could use all resorts interchangibly.   I think this violates the mini system concept.



Guests of owners exempt as well.


----------



## jjmanthei05

am1 said:


> Guests of owners exempt as well.



If guests of owners would be exempt to then everyone would be exempt because you have to be an owner or a guest to stay. 

Jason


----------



## timeos2

jjmanthei05 said:


> If guests of owners would be exempt to then everyone would be exempt because you have to be an owner or a guest to stay.
> 
> Jason



There are plenty of Wyndham & RCI renters that are neither guests nor owners.


----------



## Pietin

timeos2 said:


> There are plenty of Wyndham & RCI renters that are neither guests nor owners.



Like extra holiday renters!


----------



## scootr5

Pietin said:


> Like extra holiday renters!



But isn't that really just Wyn renting the developer points they control and owner points they have been given?


----------



## cmh

I think everyone should be concerned about this new trend, INCLUDING Wyndham owners.  What's that saying?

_First they came for the socialists,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a socialist.

Then they came for the trade unionists,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a trade unionist.

Then they came for the Jews,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a Jew.

Then they came for me,
and there was no one left to speak for me._


----------



## bnoble

Wow. Godwin's law over $84 a week!  Impressive!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law


----------



## lcml11

bnoble said:


> Wow. Godwin's law over $84 a week!  Impressive!
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law



I think this thread has degenerated into a debate of Hitler's Germany.  Wyndham, fortunately, is not the government.  I know that may be news to Wyndham, however, it is true.


----------



## ronparise

grandschnauzer said:


> Another Wyndham surprise! It's still not on the BC website. I spent an hour+ on the phone getting answers  and grumbling.  I'm not going to be charged that fee but my guests are.
> 
> I have 4 people under contract to rent at Bonnet Creek at this time. I have to write each of them and tell them about the parking fee, and maybe loose my contract. Wyndham is not going to replace my guest certificate if they cancel. I'm just glad that I don't have anyone arriving on Feb 15th. I'd have to eat the points too!
> 
> Going over to the Wyndham owners website next. Maybe I can get a rebellion stared.



Its there now...I saw it yesterday

and its on the RCI site too


----------



## ronparise

MauiLea said:


> This is just one way for Wyndham to make more money.




This is not a way for Wyndham to make more money....I dont like it any more than you do, but thats not what it is

If its done right its a way for the HOA to keep  annual maintenance fees from going up as much as they might otherwise

If I was in charge, rather than instituting this fee, I would have eliminated the shuttle service, and invited the various taxi, bus and limo companies to provide a pay per trip service...The HOA would save the money and the folks that actually need and use the service would pay for it


----------



## hemrab1

*fees at wyndham resorts in USVI*

In the USVI in Nov 12, the utility fee was $11/night at Bluebeards Beach Club and $22/night at the Elysian.  A friend who has owned a Beach Club week for over 20 years is not charged.


----------



## csxjohn

ronparise said:


> This is not a way for Wyndham to make more money....I dont like it any more than you do, but thats not what it is
> 
> If its done right its a way for the HOA to keep  annual maintenance fees from going up as much as they might otherwise
> 
> If I was in charge, rather than instituting this fee, I would have eliminated the shuttle service, and invited the various taxi, bus and limo companies to provide a pay per trip service...The HOA would save the money and the folks that actually need and use the service would pay for it



This just makes too much sense and the HOA could not reap profits from your plan.:hysterical:  

You've got to get into the 21st century where sticking it to "the other guy" is becoming the norm.  Trouble is, somewhere along the line you become the "other guy" and get it stuck to you.

This kind of fee for non owners has me thinking that the general public may be right when they say "all timeshares are a rip off."


----------



## staceyeileen

ronparise said:


> If I was in charge, rather than instituting this fee, I would have eliminated the shuttle service, and invited the various taxi, bus and limo companies to provide a pay per trip service...The HOA would save the money and the folks that actually need and use the service would pay for it



That would work if all the HOA was trying to do was cover the cost of  the shuttle.  But at $12/day the money is obviously going to fund much more than just "transporation" no?  It can't actually cost that much to run the shuttle.  I'd be interested to see the budget breakdown if any BCR owners can provide it.


----------



## ronparise

csxjohn said:


> This just makes too much sense and the HOA could not reap profits from your plan.:hysterical:
> 
> You've got to get into the 21st century where sticking it to "the other guy" is becoming the norm.  Trouble is, somewhere along the line you become the "other guy" and get it stuck to you.
> 
> This kind of fee for non owners has me thinking that the general public may be right when they say "all timeshares are a rip off."



The HOA cant make a profit anyway..They are organized as non-profits.

I understand that the Bonnet Creek owners dont like paying for a service that has nothing to do with the maintenance of the facility out of their maintenance fees, especially when so many folks that stay at this place are not Bonnet Creek owners

With my idea they could "profit "  if they wanted too. They could charge the vendors a franchise fee, or license fee or taxi stand rental fee or just a surcharge on each fare to increase revenue. 

An HOA charging for extra services to keep maintenance fees down and to insure maintenance fees are used for maintenance rather than these extra services is not unprecedented in the Wyndham system. At National Harbor the HOA "profits" from the rent they charge CVS for the space they have in the building.. La Belle Maison charges $27 a day to park in the building garage...but you pay only if you park there. and although I dont think we profit from it, Avenue Plaza has negotiated a Valet Parking deal for owners (and their guests, by the way) that is significantly cheaper than the rate exchangers have to pay.


----------



## Ron2

ronparise said:


> The HOA cant make a profit anyway..They are organized as non-profits.
> 
> I understand that the Bonnet Creek owners dont like paying for a service that has nothing to do with the maintenance of the facility out of their maintenance fees, especially when so many folks that stay at this place are not Bonnet Creek owners
> 
> With my idea they could "profit "  if they wanted too. They could charge the vendors a franchise fee, or license fee or taxi stand rental fee or just a surcharge on each fare to increase revenue.
> 
> An HOA charging for extra services to keep maintenance fees down and to insure maintenance fees are used for maintenance rather than these extra services is not unprecedented in the Wyndham system. At National Harbor the HOA "profits" from the rent they charge CVS for the space they have in the building.. La Belle Maison charges $27 a day to park in the building garage...but you pay only if you park there. and although I dont think we profit from it, Avenue Plaza has negotiated a Valet Parking deal for owners (and their guests, by the way) that is significantly cheaper than the rate exchangers have to pay.



Ron,
As usual, you’re absolutely right! They should end the free shuttle service and let guests choose their mode of transportation to Disney. Your idea to charge transportation vendors a franchise fee is an excellent concept. As a BC owner, I think I’ll pass that suggestion on to the HOA. I agree that shuttle service has nothing to do with maintenance and should not be included in maintenance fees. Many owners like myself go to BC for the resort not Disney. A day or two at Disney is plenty for me but you’re also right that the majority of non-owners stay at BC primarily because its so close to Disney.


----------



## massvacationer

I think this charge violates the principles of the Fairshare - Club Wyndham system. 

I own points  and converted weeks that are deeded at several resorts, but none at Bonnet Creek.  My points are then put into the club Wyndham system with the expectation that I can use them at other Wyndham Resorts and receive the same benefits as I would at my home resorts and receive the same benefits when staying at other resorts as other owners.    I think this violates this whole mini system concept

Maybe I should contact the BODs of my resorts and demand that parking fees be charged to Wyndham owners that are not deeded at my resorts?

I think we should send emails to the folks who are on the board of the VOA trust and insist that this is stopped.

BTW. I think Ron's suggestion is the fair way to handle this:   charge anyone who takes the shuttle a use fee.


----------



## 55plus

The board had to approve the charge and I assume the board is comprised of two Wyndham employees and a token owner. That seems to be the new model for the owners associations that are on the Club Wyndham Access list. I assume this will be the norm at all Club Wyndham Access listed resorts and will be use as a selling point by the weasels.

Wyndham employees on the Owners Board is a conflict of interest....
.


----------



## csxjohn

ronparise said:


> The HOA cant make a profit anyway..They are organized as non-profits.
> 
> I understand that the Bonnet Creek owners dont like paying for a service that has nothing to do with the maintenance of the facility out of their maintenance fees, especially when so many folks that stay at this place are not Bonnet Creek owners
> 
> With my idea they could "profit "  if they wanted too. They could charge the vendors a franchise fee, or license fee or taxi stand rental fee or just a surcharge on each fare to increase revenue.
> 
> An HOA charging for extra services to keep maintenance fees down and to insure maintenance fees are used for maintenance rather than these extra services is not unprecedented in the Wyndham system. At National Harbor the HOA "profits" from the rent they charge CVS for the space they have in the building.. La Belle Maison charges $27 a day to park in the building garage...but you pay only if you park there. and although I dont think we profit from it, Avenue Plaza has negotiated a Valet Parking deal for owners (and their guests, by the way) that is significantly cheaper than the rate exchangers have to pay.



By profit I meant lower MF rates for owners at the resort.  I have no problem with a use fee if you use the amenity being charged for or if everyone staying there pays it too.

By everyone paying the fee that stays there, the fee could be less and the owners who do not stay there won't have to pick up the bill for all those staying.

Personally I would not stay at a resort that charges for an amenity that I won't be using.  (There goes another chance for you to get some of my cash.)  A resort I'm looking to buy, charges non-owners a fee for recreational equip like bikes, boogie boards, beach umbrellas and such only if they want to use those items.  I don't like it for reasons I've stated before, but it's better than what the BC owners are doing to the non-owners.


----------



## massvacationer

morrisjim said:


> The board had to approve the charge and I assume the board is comprised of two Wyndham employees and a token owner. That seems to be the new model for the owners associations that are on the Club Wyndham Access list. I assume this will be the norm at all Club Wyndham Access listed resorts and will be use as a selling point by the weasels.
> 
> Wyndham employees on the Owners Board is a conflict of interest....
> .



I'm sorry - I was a little unclear.   I understand that he Bonnet Creek board approved this fee.  But I think we should express displeasure to the VOA trust board.  Those are the Wyndham employees that oversee the trust the operates the points exchange system.   If they agree, they could pressure BC to change this.  I really think that this fee violates the whole premise of the Club Wyndham (Fairshare) system.   

Other than ARP, points should be points when you are staying at a resort.   Extra mandatory fees for points owners from other Wyndham resorts should be a no no.


----------



## pacodemountainside

csxjohn said:


> This just makes too much sense and the HOA could not reap profits from your plan.:hysterical:
> 
> You've got to get into the 21st century where sticking it to "the other guy" is becoming the norm.  Trouble is, somewhere along the line you become the "other guy" and get it stuck to you.
> 
> This kind of fee for non owners has me thinking that the general public may be right when they say "all timeshares are a rip off."






In the business world this was referred to as  "someones ox is going to get gored"

and political world "pluck the feathers where there will be the least squawking"


----------



## am1

Wyndham is getting a cut of this fee.  

Cancelling the shuttle bus would force BC owners to find alternate transportation to magic kingdom.


----------



## 55plus

*Points are no longer Points....*

Under what is happening at Bonnet Creek, when a sales weasel says, "points are points" you can reference the Bonnet Creek fee policy and call him or her a liar...


----------



## Pietin

massvacationer said:


> I'm sorry - I was a little unclear.   I understand that he Bonnet Creek boatd approved this fee.  But I think we should express displeasure to the VOA trust board.  Those are the Wyndham employees that ovetsee the trust the operates the points exchange system.   If they agree, they could pressure BC to change this.  I really think that this fee violatrs the whole premise of the Club Wyndham (Fairshare) system.
> 
> Other than ARP, points should be points when you are staying at a resort.   Extra man
> datory fees for points owners from other Wyndham resorts should be a no no.



A guess point are no longer points.  The idea of points was to make fair exchanges I though and to even out the maintenance fee over the seasons.    A slow week is less point than a high demand week.   An owner who wanted to go in July would pay more points than an owner that would go in March, there maintenance fee was according to the number of points used.  So Bonnet Creek takes more of my point than Star Island, if I want to stay at Bonnet Creek I take this value proposition.  Part of the value for this exchange in higher points value is that I can take a shuttle to Disney Parks at no cost.  This saves some money but I give up convenience   as I am at the mercy of the bus schedule, again a value proposition I am willing to take.  Now where I have the problem is Points are Points.  If this was the case my points would be enough to stay at the Bonnet Creek without additional fee.  We get a two bedroom at the Holidays, that 224K point.  If you that the $84 across the increase the fee on my points are about .39 more per K.   Obviously if it is a slow week in a one bedroom it is $1 more per K.   (This does not take in account for special assessment at your home resorts, where if some trades in they don’t get hit with it.)

But this takes away from the whole “you can use your points anywhere.”  It is not the case if I want to use my point at Bonnet Creek, I give up the use at any of my home resorts, but to use them at Bonnet Creek I get penalized with an additional fee.  The owner at Bonnet Creek can use there points at any of my home resorts and not get penalized.    Thus there point have more value, Points are not Points.    This problem is more exasperating because not all points cost the same maintenance fees.   I understand that why there are different fee, and that CWA smooths out those fee but the tradeoff there is that only an limited number of points are available for a given reservation period, the whole resort is not open to CWA owners.  And if all of the Wyndham points were in CWA it would be impossible to reserve other that the morning 13 month out.

I know $84 dollars isn’t a lot, especially if you are going to Disney, but it is when all things are considered.    

Wyndham Cypress Palms - Total HOA Fee for 1,000 Points: $5.60  
Star Island - Total HOA Fee for 1,000 Points: $5.06 
Wyndham Vacation Resorts at Glacier Canyon - Total HOA Fee for 1,000 Points: $5.67
I think last year Bonnet Creak was at the 4.50ish mark.    Not sure what it is this year. 

Does anyone know what the MF are at Bonnet Creek for 1K?  How do they compare with the other Wyndham Resorts in the area or the other Wyndham resorts in general?  Should other resort start charging not owner these fees too?  If so would the whole Wyndham system collapse and we have to buy something new?   Is the HOA at Bonnet Creek implementing this fee because Wyndham is no long subsidizing the M/F during the sale of the resort?  

Will I rethink my Wyndham portfolio, yes.  Will I rethink were I stay in Florida, yes.  Will I buy other points systems and start to sell (give away) Wyndham points, maybe.     

I know I am on a rant but I bought in to Wyndham because points were points but they have been so devalued that even buy resale has no value anymore.   With resort fee and the RCI point inflations, the move of year use, snatching unused inventory of Extra Holidays rentals, what else could they do to make owner unhappy?  

Ok I done for now.  

:deadhorse:


----------



## lcml11

morrisjim said:


> Under what is happening at Bonnet Creek, when a sales weasel says, "points are points" you can reference the Bonnet Creek fee policy and call him or her a liar...



Agreed.  I think it is probable that Wyndham monitors this board and will take note and the theory goes away along with others that follow the Wyndham lead on the issue.  If it was ever true, it is not now.


----------



## vacationhopeful

am1 said:


> Wyndham is getting a cut of this fee....



Wyndham is managing this contract and gets a FEE to manage the contract. I bet there is a fee to BID, qualify, supervise and select the bids every time the contract is reviewed.

And managers get wine & dine every time the contract is up for renewal.  And I KNOW what that means as I am from the urban Northeast of the USA.

Wyndham gets a fixed fee for everything - and having independant and separate contractors makes that PERCENT RATE easy to figure -- after all these are sales guys, not the accounting geeks. Sort of like dealing with a bookie, they can tell you while they are asleep as to what their cut is.

And that is WHY Wyndham loves contracts - money is easier to count than to manage people and functions. And way easier to cook the books and to influence the cooks and to skim the fat off.

IMHO. :ignore:


----------



## jmurp62

*That didnt take very long*

I had a guest just return from BC and of course, I, the points owner, was sent the survey. I gave them a low rating based on the upcoming fee addition and told them that was why they were rated so low. Did the survey last night, got the following email response today. Talk about CYA!! Placing the blame on the HOA is interesting.
Murf

Dear Mr. xxxxxx:

Thank you for taking the time to contact us regarding your recent stay here at Wyndham Bonnet Creek Resort. Please accept my apologies for the level of service you received during your stay. The implementation of the transportation fee is a decision made by the Home Owner Association, we understand your concerns however the resort management has no control over the changing the conditions of the implemented fee. We would be more than happy to provide your feedback to our Home Owners Association and we regret if this affect in any way your furture stays at our resort.

Mr.XXXXX, I want you to know how much we appreciate your visit to the resort, and how much we value you as a guest. We hope that you will give us another opportunity at Wyndham Bonnet Creek Resort to show you our “World Class” service. I am confident we will exceed your expectations. Thank you again for your comments.

Sincerely,


Jeannine Ives
Assistant Guest Services Manager
Wyndham Bonnet Creek Resort


----------



## ronparise

Points from one resort have always been different from points at another resort with regard to ARP and with regard to maintenance fee cost. now Bonnet Creek with the blessing of Wyndham central, has added another difference regarding extra resort fees.

However when you use your points to make reservations at resorts other than your home resort.  in the standard reservation window, points are still points 

for example 

224000 points deeded at National Harbor plus $84 will reserve a 2 bedroom at Bonnet Creek in prime season

224000 points deeded at Grand Desert plus $84 will reserve a 2 bedroom at Bonnet Creek in prime season

224000 points deeded at La Casada plus $84 will reserve a 2 bedroom at Bonnet Creek in prime season

etc

etc

etc

You can also mix and match...

100000 points from  La Casada plus 75000 points at Grand Desert plus 49000 points from National Harbor plus $84 will reserve a 2 bedroom at Bonnet Creek in prime season

etc 

etc 

In their use points are points. It still doesent matter where they are deeded unless you want ARP at your home resort or (and heres whats new) or unless you want to avoid certain extra fees charged by some resorts for extra services...to get ARP or to avoid these charges you may want to buy points deeded at a certain resort.


----------



## Don40

Posting lousy reviews might get some attention of management this was suggested earlier, so if we all give negative feedback it might have an effect.


----------



## pacodemountainside

*Wyndham Gestation*



massvacationer said:


> I think this charge violates the principles of the Fairshare - Club Wyndham system.
> 
> I own points  and converted weeks that are deeded at several resorts, but none at Bonnet Creek.  My points are then put into the club Wyndham system with the expectation that I can use them at other Wyndham Resorts and receive the same benefits as I would at my home resorts and receive the same benefits when staying at other resorts as other owners.    I think this violates this whole mini system concept
> 
> Maybe I should contact the BODs of my resorts and demand that parking fees be charged to Wyndham owners that are not deeded at my resorts?
> 
> I think we should send emails to the folks who are on the board of the VOA trust and insist that this is stopped.
> 
> 
> BTW. I think Ron's suggestion is the fair way to handle this:   charge anyone who takes the shuttle a use fee.



You might want to read following article how  Wyndham started plundering us from get go.   Yes, in the olde days  prime studios were 77K points, 1 BRs 105K, 2 BR 154K  and 3 BR 189K for the most part. Using points inflation they have  played  games. But fact still remains that a point used to  get you the  same thing at any of the 76 resorts regardless of what one paid for it or MF! ARP is  a perk assigned to a given resort! Now,  that resorts are  treating owners different from non-owners then the system has collapsed.

The VOI Trust is totally independent legal entity  from  HOAs. It should be run by 7 BOD members, but Wyndham has  managed to  allow its triumvirate to run despite complaints to Arkansas AG!

Asking  VOI Trust to intervene in HOAs affairs is like asking US Congress to  regulate speed on residential  street in front of your house.

 --------  
>The True History of Cendant, Fairfield and Wyndham Author unknown!
>
>Ever wonder how your Fairfield or Trendwest(WorldMart) timeshare became a Wyndham timeshare? Ever wonder what happened to Cendant? What happened to Fairfield? And what about the rumors of executives going to jail? Wonder no more, here are the answers.
>
>In 1997, two major companies merged to form Cendant, Hospitality Franchise Services (HFS) and Comp-U-Card (CUC). Henry Silverman was the CEO of HFS, a major hotel and real estate franchiser. Walter Forbes was the CEO of CUC, a direct marketing giant. Silverman saw this merger as an opportunity to expand the HFS brands through CUC’s existing marketing structure. They agreed to share leadership of the new company, Cendant; however, Silverman had made his millions and was stepping into retirement. When Silverman was trying to quietly step down, the merged stock prices were soaring, until April 1998, when former HFS executives discovered CUC had previously overstated their financial condition prior to the merger. Stocks plummeted $14 billion in one day as shareholders jumped ship amidst the largest accounting scandal in Wall History (Enron and Worldcom would not happen until three years later). The SEC immediately opened up an investigation of Cendant. Silverman demanded Forbes to cede management of Cendant to him, Forbes refused and eventually Cendant nearly went belly up.
>
>
>Silverman cancelled his retirement and jumped back into the fire to try and restore his great reputation. I don’t recall when Forbes was out of the picture, but it was sometime around 1999 or 2000 when he was charged by the SEC with misrepresenting company profits, corporate embezzlement and generally ripping off shareholders. Forbes and his CUC executives spent five plus years on trial. In 2005, Forbes’ second-in-charge, Kirk Shelton, was convicted to 10 years in jail. (A humorous side-note is that Shelton was ordered to make financial restitution to Cendant, to the tune of $3.3 billion, payable at the rate of $2000 per month. That works out to be a payment schedule of 134,000 years! What a joke.) Finally, after eight years of trial, in October 2006, Forbes was convicted and sentenced to up to 25 years in jail. Most of the other CUC executives went down with Forbes and Shelton, but provided testimony for immunity and/or were released on technicalities. Seemingly, all of these crooks were off Cendant’s payroll before Fairfield entered the picture. Incidentally, Silverman was found guilty only of NOT doing his homework prior to choosing business partners.
>
>Silverman was left with Cendant in a shambles. After coming out of retirement, he made great strides to rebuild his personal reputation and save Cendant. One of his first steps was to have his lawyers contact the plaintiffs of every pending lawsuit and immediately settle all of them – to the sum of several billion dollars. They dumped some brands to fund this and Silverman pitched in personally as well. He worked hard to restore his reputation, but kept the name Cendant in place until his departure in 2006. 
>
>The way this history affects us as FairShare Plus or Worldmark owners is Silverman created Cendant Timeshare Resort Group (CTRG), a new Cendant division geared at taking full advantage of their direct-marketing resources already in place and applying them to the vacation ownership market. CTRG was headed up by Silverman’s former CFO at HFS, Stephen Holmes. (Keep in mind that Stephen Holmes worked for The Blackstone Group prior to working at HFS.) In January 2001, Cendant purchased Fairfield Communities, Inc., the developer of Fairfield Resorts and management company for the FairShare Vacation Owners Association (VOI), for $635 million. Then, in April 2002, Cendant purchased Trendwest Resorts, Inc., the developer and management company for WorldMark The Club, for $927 million. 
>
>During this time Cendant also acquired RCI which Fairfield had a close working relationship with and around Y2K had started a points program! 
>
>
>By 2004, everything was going smoothly for Cendant and its subsidiaries; Fairfield and Trendwest. Just about everyone was happy and enjoying the relationship. Silverman had regained the confidence of shareholders and built Cendant into the single largest hospitality/travel name in the industry, now a conglomerate with $20 billion in annual revenues. So, Silverman was once again content and decided to try to retire again. In October 2005, Silverman announced a decision to split Cendant into four separate companies. We will focus on the hospitality brands, which were coupled with CTRG to be spun-off in mid-2006 as Wyndham Worldwide, Inc. Other three parts were AVIS Car Rental, Century 21 Real Estate and Realogy!
>
>
>Now, you might be wondering how Cendant decided to spin off a company called Wyndham? Let’s start with some quick history about the name “Wyndham”. Wyndham International, Inc., was an upscale and luxury hotel brand based out of Dallas, TX. They owned 34 hotels, 82 franchise agreements, and had 29 hotel management contracts. In August 2005, Wyndham International sold everything to Blackstone Group (a massive private investment firm that is famous for huge leveraged-buy outs and mergers) for $3.2 billion. (Don’t forget, I already mentioned Stephen Holmes used to work for Blackstone.) Within three months, Blackstone rebranded half of the most luxurious of the Wyndham hotels under their own brand, LXR Luxury Resorts; sold the remaining properties to Columbia Sussex Corp for $1.4 billion; and sold the brand name “Wyndham”, the franchise agreements, and management contracts to Cendant for $100 million. So, the only thing Cendant purchased was the leftover management contracts and the name, “Wyndham”. This was a perfect opportunity to get rid of three names that were blackened in the industry; Cendant, Fairfield and Trendwest, and replace them with a name everyone already associated with luxury travel accommodations. 
>
>Purchasing the coveted Wyndham name for just $100 million and burying the stigmatized names was a great idea by Silverman, but he made a mistake by putting Stephen Holmes in to lead this effort. Holmes rebranded everything. CTRG became Wyndham Vacation Ownership (WVO); Fairfield Communities (which had already been renamed Fairfield Vacation Resorts) became Wyndham Vacation Resorts (WVR), and Trendwest became Wyndham Resort Development (WRD). They even tried to change the names of a few cities (Fairfield Bay and Glade), but the post office and residents didn’t like that, so they compromised by adding “by Wyndham” to the end. Everything became something-Wyndham (even the soap) and they were successful at confusing not only the public and taxi-cab drivers, but even half of the employees. 
>
>Since 2006 the hotel-side of business was not diversified. They had enjoyed a long-time reliance on associations with businesses; hosting conferences, conventions, and discounting for business travel relationships. Holmes clearly failed to do what CEOs are paid to do; predict the impact of the gas crisis and economic downfall and shift their business strategies to remain competitive. He was behind the power curve and sought rescue from the only Wyndham Worldwide subsidiary that was still in the black; WVO, with its two primary brands, WVR (FairShare) and WVD (Worldmark), led by Franz Hanning.
>
>Franz Hanning started with Fairfield in 1982 as a dreaded timeshare salesman. He worked his way up to become the sales manager at Kingsgate within five years. Often credited today as the "founder" or "brain-child" behind the FairShare Plus points program, it is curious to wonder how he could do that when he was still only a sales manager when the FairShare Program was fielded in early 1991. In 1992, Hanning was promoted to vice president of sales for Williamsburg and Myrtle Beach. In 1997, he became the overall vice president of sales for Fairfield. Within two years he became the Chief Operating Officer (COO), second-in-charge to Randolph Warner, the founder and CEO of Fairfield Communities.
>
>
>When Cendant bought Fairfield Communities in 2001, Warner decided to retire. He made a deal with Cendant to promote Hanning to CEO of Fairfield Communities during the acquisition. So Hanning took over as CEO of Fairfield Communities in 2001, as a subsidiary of Cendant. After the spin off, Hanning took over as CEO of WVO, in charge of development and management of both WVR (FairShare) and WVD (Worldmark).
>
>Back to Holmes and the mounting financial troubles facing Wyndham Worldwide. Following the spin off in 2006, Hanning had done a decent job of keeping WVO in the black. Right from the start, WVO started to make changes to the existing programs of each of their brands (including FairShare Plus and Worldmark), taking away benefits, and funneling inventory over to external Wyndham Worldwide programs, including Wyndham Hotels, Extra Holidays, Endless Vacations and RCI (there are others, but this mentions a few). This was all done without the permission of existing timeshare owners by using clauses built into the ownership contracts to control the Board of Directors and make decisions on “behalf of all owners” without any owner input. 
>
>What a great concept. In fact, they were successful at abusing this relationship for a few years, but Holmes forced Hanning to dig even deeper. With the recent changes in ownership benefits for both brands, owners are finally taking up arms against this corporate breach of duty and conflict of interest.(See Bill Spearman article in  April 2009  TS  Today)!
>
>
>P.S. I don’t want to leave anyone hanging on the fate of Cendant’s founder, Henry Silverman. He took his meager $62 million severance package when Cendant did their split in 2006 and took over as CEO in the much slower-paced, and less controversial, spin off company, Realogy, Inc. Of course he’s doing well, but it turns out he’s always secretly been a Kid Rock fan. He took Kid Rock’s song, “She’s Half Your Age and Twice as Hot” a bit too seriously for a guy without a prenuptial. In November 2008, Silverman decided to dump his wife of over 30 years for a 28 year old chick he met in line at Starbucks. Looks like the 68 year-old Silverman won’t be retiring anytime soon if Mrs. Silverman (ex) gets what she’s trying to get from him!
>
>Today Stephen P. Holmes is Chairman and CEO of Wyndham Worldwide!
>
>Fran S. Hanning is President and CEO of Wyndham Vacation Ownership! (WVO)
>
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## lcml11

ronparise said:


> Points from one resort have always been different from points at another resort with regard to ARP and with regard to maintenance fee cost. now Bonnet Creek with the blessing of Wyndham central, has added another difference regarding extra resort fees.
> 
> However when you use your points to make reservations at resorts other than your home resort.  in the standard reservation window, points are still points
> 
> for example
> 
> 224000 points deeded at National Harbor plus $84 will reserve a 2 bedroom at Bonnet Creek in prime season
> 
> 224000 points deeded at Grand Desert plus $84 will reserve a 2 bedroom at Bonnet Creek in prime season
> 
> 224000 points deeded at La Casada plus $84 will reserve a 2 bedroom at Bonnet Creek in prime season
> 
> etc
> 
> etc
> 
> etc
> 
> You can also mix and match...
> 
> 100000 points from  La Casada plus 75000 points at Grand Desert plus 49000 points from National Harbor plus $84 will reserve a 2 bedroom at Bonnet Creek in prime season
> 
> etc
> 
> etc
> 
> In their use points are points. It still doesent matter where they are deeded unless you want ARP at your home resort or (and heres whats new) or unless you want to avoid certain extra fees charged by some resorts for extra services...to get ARP or to avoid these charges you may want to buy points deeded at a certain resort.



You missed a few like Presidential Reserve Units availability pool generally does not become available to other point owners until well under the 10 month period and I understand there are also differences in use rights associated with some if not all of the Outrigger points.  Of course there is also the point differential on use rights associated with the VIP program not to mention the great benifits associated with the book, cancel, re-book proceedures and the ability to get your Wyndham points out of your name.  Those are the big ones at present.  The verdict is still out on what happens to any Shell Vacation Club availabilty if it comes to pass to Club Wyndham Plus and Club Wyndham Access.

I guess this is as close as it is going to come to an apology.  However, thank-you for that.


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## pacodemountainside

am1 said:


> Wyndham is getting a cut of this fee.
> 
> Canceling the shuttle bus would force BC owners to find alternate transportation to magic kingdom.



As I read  Wyndham SEC 10K, Wyndham typically gets  10 of   expenses for its almost pure profit management fee.  The olde WWII cost plus lobsters amd limos.

So, if resort reduces expense by some what wild number of $5 million, may  be just  1/2 is more in ball park  then 10% of  $2,500,000 is $250K they are losing!

Since I always rent a car and have CWA  no effect on me but very ominous precedent  that is going to hurt  virtually all owners in long term.


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## vacationhopeful

pacodemountainside said:


> ...very ominous precedent  that is going to hurt  virtually all owners in long term.



Just remember the owners who care and can vote by selling their interest in Wyndham ==> stockholders.

We should start a movement where WE timeshare owners BUY Wyndham corporate stock and VOICE our issues to as a Shareholder issue. We have few rights as a Vacation Club Member - as a Big Block of Shareholders, hummm....


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## am1

Even before paying Wyndham their management fee for the shuttle and parking what expenses are involved in collecting the fee?


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## ronparise

lcml11 said:


> You missed a few like Presidential Reserve Units availability pool generally does not become available to other point owners until well under the 10 month period and I understand there are also differences in use rights associated with some if not all of the Outrigger points.  Of course there is also the point differential on use rights associated with the VIP program not to mention the great benifits associated with the book, cancel, re-book proceedures and the ability to get your Wyndham points out of your name.  Those are the big ones at present.  The verdict is still out on what happens to any Shell Vacation Club availabilty if it comes to pass to Club Wyndham Plus and Club Wyndham Access.
> 
> I guess this is as close as it is going to come to an apology.  However, thank-you for that.



Sorry I wasnt clear...there was no apology..or an attempt at one, except to say, Im sorry you are wrong again

Im just repeating what Ive said before..there is no difference between the points from one resort or another when used as currency to "buy" reservations at another resort within the system


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## pacodemountainside

morrisjim said:


> The board had to approve the charge and I assume the board is comprised of two Wyndham employees and a token owner. That seems to be the new model for the owners associations that are on the Club Wyndham Access list. I assume this will be the norm at all Club Wyndham Access listed resorts and will be use as a selling point by the weasels.
> 
> Wyndham employees on the Owners Board is a conflict of interest....
> .



The BOD definitely had to approve. However, I am curious where  you  derived composition of BOD from.

Most of the    56 or  so  resorts  in  CWA   have been around  for many years.  Off top of my head Wyndham  has only opened some   half dozen new  resorts in last 5 or so years. WAAM  is different. Desert Blue  is still  moth balled and  building permit extension runs out this March.

I am unaware of any  Wyndham executives on BODs where I own other than Dolphins Cove  where World Mart owners have  one representing them

Typically  HOA Boards have 5-7 directors based on   resort size. Hopefully composed of  lawyers, accountants, engineers,  contract negotiators,  experienced managers, etc. who bring their expertise, savvy and knowledge.

In Colorado and I assume most  states have similar statutes  after project is around 60% sold  Developer  goes to minority and around 80% is completely off! Of course,   current BOD is bound by  long term  sweet heart contacts  Developer  BOD  signed.

Virtually all of  BOD/HOA meetings I have attended  the BOD does have coffee/donuts/snacks, etc. but no lavish  dinners.

At annual meeting  all attendees  partake of  food  and booze!

It would  sure be nice if one of the BC  owners posting here could list   curriculum vita   for BOD there and post budget so we could  discuss factually.

Clearly the VOI Trust is run by Wyndham triumphant and as I recall CWA BOD  just has one owner/member.


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## pacodemountainside

vacationhopeful said:


> Just remember the owners who care and can vote by selling their interest in Wyndham ==> stockholders.
> 
> We should start a movement where WE timeshare owners BUY Wyndham corporate stock and VOICE our issues to as a Shareholder issue. We have few rights as a Vacation Club Member - as a Big Block of Shareholders, hummm....




Could also be very profitable!

http://tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=186762


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## MichaelColey

You would have to be a pretty substantial shareholder to make much difference.  With a $8 billion market cap, you would need $400 million to be a 5% owner.


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## webkrawlerr

*BS..*

We live in Orlando and drive our car each time we visit Bonnet Creek. We love Disney and prefer to stay at BC over other Disney resorts.

We use our car to go everywhere as bus service is slow and can be unreliable. But, I guess I'll be stuck paying this fee, too, next time I want to go there.

That sux!


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## antjmar

webkrawlerr said:


> We live in Orlando and drive our car each time we visit Bonnet Creek. We love Disney and prefer to stay at BC over other Disney resorts.
> 
> We use our car to go everywhere as bus service is slow and can be unreliable. But, I guess I'll be stuck paying this fee, too, next time I want to go there.
> 
> That sux!


You won't pay since you are an owner there. I agree the shuttle is too slow. I drove instead.


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## ronparise

I have friends that stay Bonnet Creek and love the whole Disney experience. They drive to Disneys Boardwalk resort, and park in an outlying parking lot. They visit the shops there (and usually leave Dad at the ESPN Club) and then get the Disney boat to the parks...ie "free" parking and transportation

Me? I stay at the resort


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## riverdees05

Got my email from RCI about the fee, but at least I have a choice - pay the fee or turn my units back to RCI and get a credit.  When I get home, will look at my other options since I have two units exchanged in June.


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## lcml11

riverdees05 said:


> Got my email from RCI about the fee, but at least I have a choice - pay the fee or turn my units back to RCI and get a credit.  When I get home, will look at my other options since I have two units exchanged in June.



Three cheers for RCI.  If they keep this type of behavior up, they may get disowned by the rest of the Wyndham Group.


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## timeos2

lcml11 said:


> Three cheers for RCI.  If they keep this type of behavior up, they may get disowned by the rest of the Wyndham Group.



Remember back when RCI had come guts & stood up for members they fought and eventually lost DVC to II for a few years when they refused to let DVC break the rules that prohibited fees to exchange guests. It was DVC that started the whole thing with their "exchange penalty" of $95 that got the guest exactly nothing! When they imposed it back in the 90's RCI said "no way" and got it back from those who asked. Then II blessed it and here we are today with others tacking on bogus fees for unused/unwanted/paid for by the owners fees to exchange guests effectively making them second class and exchanges even more costly than they already are. Boo to them all - remember to give the resorts that pull it "1's". 

It is small consolation but it does make you feel a litle better to know you'll help the pitiful Magic Tree Resort's of the world be higher rated than a Bonnet Creek.


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## Ron2

I’m amazed at the amount of interest and concern that the new $12 transportation fee at Bonnet Creek has generated.  249 responses in just a week! Wow! You’d think this was the end of the timeshare world as we know it. The fact is service fees charged at check in is nothing new. Wyndham Kingsgate has been doing it for some time now. The following is from my reservation confirmation letter which I just received today:  
"A $5.00 mandatory per unit per day Resort Fee, which is collected at check-in for all arriving guests, provides unlimited use of the video game arcade, all signature activities/events and the miniature golf course."
As you can see we are being charged extra for things which you’d think would be included at the resort. Quite frankly Bonnet Creek has far more to offer guests than does Kingsgate yet I haven’t heard complaints about the Kingsgate HOA. Possibly the Bonnet Creek BOD should have had their fee be a “Resort Fee” rather than a “Transportation Fee”. But its possible that the Board felt that it should cash in on the very popular  and lucrative business of Bonnet Creek rentals which many folks here on TUG profit from. The free shuttle had to be a drain on maintenance fees with the primary benefit going to those renters touting free shuttle service to Disney and to Disney itself. OR possibly its just the Board’s way of ticking off everyone so they have an excuse to end the shuttle service. If you’ve ever taken the shuttle and in particular wanted to go to any park other than Magic Kingdom, there are far better and quicker ways to get there. Personally I think that they should just end the shuttle sooner rather than later and invite private transportation vendors to provide the service for those who need transportation to Disney.
If ending the shuttle service wasn’t their objective then all the negative feedback that many folks here at TUG are suggesting should provide more than enough reason to end the shuttle service.


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## bnoble

> You’d think this was the end of the timeshare world as we know it.


TUGgers are rather famous for their "frugality."


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## ronparise

bnoble said:


> TUGgers are rather famous for their "frugality."



As Everett Dirksen is said to have said...A Billion here and a Billion there; pretty soon you are talking about real money

Applied to timeshares...Add a resort fee to an exchange fee and my home resorts maintenance fees and you may have exceeded my family's vacation budget....the straw that broke the camels back,. so to speak...

I agree with rsphelps in this regard...It wont make any difference. There are enough folks that like the Bonnet Creek experience enough that they will pay almost anything to be there as long as its less than the Disney resorts


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## Free2Roam

rsphelps said:


> ... The fact is service fees charged at check in is nothing new. Wyndham Kingsgate has been doing it for some time now. The following is from my reservation confirmation letter which I just received today:
> "A $5.00 mandatory per unit per day Resort Fee, which is collected at check-in for all arriving guests, provides unlimited use of the video game arcade, all signature activities/events and the miniature golf course."
> As you can see we are being charged extra for things which you’d think would be included at the resort. Quite frankly Bonnet Creek has far more to offer guests than does Kingsgate yet I haven’t heard complaints about the Kingsgate HOA.



One difference is that Kingsgate charges owners and non-owners (at least they did when I visited)... that was during my pre-TUG days, so I don't know about other complaints. But as an owner, I did complain and I vowed to never stay there again. I like Governors Green better anyway.


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## Explorer7

My first visit to Kingsgate in Williamsburg I was a bit annoyed there was a $5 per day amenity fee when the other two resorts Governor’s green and patriots place had no such fees, patriots place I could understand since they have no amenities other than an outdoor pool, but the only significant difference I could see between Governor’s Green amenities and Kingsgate's is the game room at Kingsgate which I and many other adults don't use. (I used to actually prefer Gov Green)
I used to read about people slightly annoyed at the $5 per day fee when they weren’t using any of the resort amenities other than the unit between outings while touring Williamsburg. 
It seems to be pretty much the same principal except BC is $12 and Kingsgate is $5. $5 is easier to swallow than $12 but in my mind the precedence was already established by the example at Kingsgate and I’m not sure if there are others in the Wyndham point system.


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## timeos2

rsphelps said:


> I’m amazed at the amount of interest and concern that the new $12 transportation fee at Bonnet Creek has generated.  249 responses in just a week! Wow! You’d think this was the end of the timeshare world as we know it. The fact is service fees charged at check in is nothing new. Wyndham Kingsgate has been doing it for some time now. The following is from my reservation confirmation letter which I just received today:
> "A $5.00 mandatory per unit per day Resort Fee, which is collected at check-in for all arriving guests, provides unlimited use of the video game arcade, all signature activities/events and the miniature golf course."
> As you can see we are being charged extra for things which you’d think would be included at the resort. Quite frankly Bonnet Creek has far more to offer guests than does Kingsgate yet I haven’t heard complaints about the Kingsgate HOA. Possibly the Bonnet Creek BOD should have had their fee be a “Resort Fee” rather than a “Transportation Fee”. But its possible that the Board felt that it should cash in on the very popular  and lucrative business of Bonnet Creek rentals which many folks here on TUG profit from. The free shuttle had to be a drain on maintenance fees with the primary benefit going to those renters touting free shuttle service to Disney and to Disney itself. OR possibly its just the Board’s way of ticking off everyone so they have an excuse to end the shuttle service. If you’ve ever taken the shuttle and in particular wanted to go to any park other than Magic Kingdom, there are far better and quicker ways to get there. Personally I think that they should just end the shuttle sooner rather than later and invite private transportation vendors to provide the service for those who need transportation to Disney.
> If ending the shuttle service wasn’t their objective then all the negative feedback that many folks here at TUG are suggesting should provide more than enough reason to end the shuttle service.



While I still don't agree with it IF a fee is charged to everyone - not singling out exchange guests - it is more defensible than one that is applied selectively (and in this case to help create a "sales perk" a la Wastegate).  Even more defensible is a fee charged to everyone only if they choose to USE an optional amenity/service.


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## MichaelColey

rsphelps said:


> I’m amazed at the amount of interest and concern that the new $12 transportation fee at Bonnet Creek has generated. 249 responses in just a week! Wow! You’d think this was the end of the timeshare world as we know it. The fact is service fees charged at check in is nothing new. Wyndham Kingsgate has been doing it for some time now. The following is from my reservation confirmation letter which I just received today:
> "A $5.00 mandatory per unit per day Resort Fee, which is collected at check-in for all arriving guests, provides unlimited use of the video game arcade, all signature activities/events and the miniature golf course."


As others have said, part of it is the fact that it's charged only to some people.  The $5/day fee for the things mentioned seems much more reasonable.  Most resorts that have arcades charge per game.  And if true "signature" activities are included, $5/day is pretty reasonable.  What do you get with Bonnet Creek?  Parking and shuttle, which most Orlando resorts offer for free.

Bluegreen Wilderness Club in Branson is another resort that charges a $5/day amenity fee, and I would LOVE to stay there because the amenities are quite unique.  They deliver homemade cookies to each unit every night, among other things.


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## lcml11

MichaelColey said:


> As others have said, part of it is the fact that it's charged only to some people.  The $5/day fee for the things mentioned seems much more reasonable.  Most resorts that have arcades charge per game.  And if true "signature" activities are included, $5/day is pretty reasonable.  What do you get with Bonnet Creek?  Parking and shuttle, which most Orlando resorts offer for free.
> 
> Bluegreen Wilderness Club in Branson is another resort that charges a $5/day amenity fee, and I would LOVE to stay there because the amenities are quite unique.  They deliver homemade cookies to each unit every night, among other things.



Kingsgate in Williamsburg also charges a Amenty fee per unit wether used or not.


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## DancingWaters

*called Wyndham*

I called the Wyndham VIP phone number today and spoke to them about BC new shuttle fees. I shared with them that I feel that devalues my Wyndham ownership.The employee said not to worry about it because it is only a temporary fee. He couldn't tell me if temporary meant a few months or longer. He also said Wyndham is building a brand new resort in Vegas on the strip that includes a casino. They are also taking over a property in Orlando and are remodeling that now. Hopefully, he knew what he was talking about.


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## massvacationer

timeos2 said:


> While I still don't agree with it IF a fee is charged to everyone - not singling out exchange guests - it is more defensible than one that is applied selectively (and in this case to help create a "sales perk" a la Wastegate).  Even more defensible is a fee charged to everyone only if they choose to USE an optional amenity/service.



I agree. 

This $12 fee sets a bad precedent within the Club Wyndham System.   It smells like BC owners are asking other Club Wyndham Owners (who own at different resorts) to subsidize BC maintenance fees.   

The logical response would be for me to ask the HOAs at the three Wyndham resorts, where I own points, to impose mandatory parking/resort/amenity fees on other Wyndham owners.


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## Tia

Interesting, same island same utility company same management company for ts units. 



hemrab1 said:


> In the USVI in Nov 12, the utility fee was $11/night at Bluebeards Beach Club and $22/night at the Elysian.  A friend who has owned a Beach Club week for over 20 years is not charged.


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## bnoble

> Hopefully, he knew what he was talking about.


Sounds like a lie plus a shiny object (new resorts) to distract you.


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## timeos2

pacodemountainside said:


> The BOD definitely had to approve. However, I am curious where  you  derived composition of BOD from.
> 
> Most of the    56 or  so  resorts  in  CWA   have been around  for many years.  Off top of my head Wyndham  has only opened some   half dozen new  resorts in last 5 or so years. WAAM  is different. Desert Blue  is still  moth balled and  building permit extension runs out this March.



IF they ever went ahead with the ill-conceived "Desert Blue" as planned it would likely be second only to the Wastegate Planet Hollywood Tower of Terror as THE worst timeshare nightmare in LV. 

It is all about location and where they planned DB simply couldn't be any worse. I'm sure the property was cheap to buy but there was a reason. No one would want to be in that area no matter how nice the actual resort may end up being physically & feature wise. 

Why not buy the abandoned Fountain Blue & make THAT a truly upscale timeshare project? If that was ever completed and the area around it revived they could have a huge development in a prime strip location. 



> I am unaware of any  Wyndham executives on BODs where I own other than Dolphins Cove  where World Mart owners have  one representing them
> 
> Typically  HOA Boards have 5-7 directors based on   resort size. Hopefully composed of  lawyers, accountants, engineers,  contract negotiators,  experienced managers, etc. who bring their expertise, savvy and knowledge.
> 
> In Colorado and I assume most  states have similar statutes  after project is around 60% sold  Developer  goes to minority and around 80% is completely off! Of course,   current BOD is bound by  long term  sweet heart contacts  Developer  BOD  signed.
> 
> It would  sure be nice if one of the BC  owners posting here could list   curriculum vita   for BOD there and post budget so we could  discuss factually.
> 
> Clearly the VOI Trust is run by Wyndham triumphant and as I recall CWA BOD  just has one owner/member.



It can be sneaky (like the sales Weasels). At Kingsgate for example the Board appears to be "plain ole owners" on the surface, but a litle light digging and you discover close ties or even employment of a majority by Wyndham and/or a pre-screened Board candidate list that only includes those willing to toe the Wyndham line.  You are kidding yourself if you think they are actually independent thinking and acting Directors un-beholden to the corporate wishes. Try to get on a Wyndham Board as a true independent owner and you'll quickly discover who really controls things (as if you didn't already know).


----------



## Tia

timeos2 said:


> It can be sneaky (like the sales Weasels). At Kingsgate for example the Board appears to be "plain ole owners" on the surface, but a litle light digging and you discover close ties or even employment of a majority by Wyndham and/or a pre-screened Board candidate list that only includes those willing to toe the Wyndham line.  You are kidding yourself if you think they are actually independent thinking and acting Directors un-beholden to the corporate wishes. Try to get on a Wyndham Board as a true independent owner and you'll quickly discover who really controls things (as if you didn't already know).



Yep seen it/been there, still have one resort w/ Wyn puppets on it. Other resort broke free of Wyn but former Wyn puppet was setup by Wyn to be on 2 of it's 4 HOA's and not enough ts owners pay attention.


----------



## Tia

timeos2 said:


> It can be sneaky (like the sales Weasels). At Kingsgate for example the Board appears to be "plain ole owners" on the surface, but a litle light digging and you discover close ties or even employment of a majority by Wyndham and/or a pre-screened Board candidate list that only includes those willing to toe the Wyndham line.  You are kidding yourself if you think they are actually independent thinking and acting Directors un-beholden to the corporate wishes. Try to get on a Wyndham Board as a true independent owner and you'll quickly discover who really controls things (as if you didn't already know).



Yep seen it/been there, still have one resort w/ Wyn puppets on it. Other resort broke free of Wyn but former Wyn puppets were setup by Wyn to be on 2 of it's 4 HOA's and not enough ts owners pay attention.


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## pacodemountainside

DancingWaters said:


> I called the Wyndham VIP phone number today and spoke to them about BC new shuttle fees. I shared with them that I feel that devalues my Wyndham ownership.The employee said not to worry about it because it is only a temporary fee. He couldn't tell me if temporary meant a few months or longer. He also said Wyndham is building a brand new resort in Vegas on the strip that includes a casino. They are also taking over a property in Orlando and are remodeling that now. Hopefully, he knew what he was talking about.





I would not bet the farm on this. Wyndham has had DB in moth balls for about 4 years and is supposed to do something in March. As I recall it came into being about the same time as PH before circa 2008 market crash. But, it is in boondocks. Probably does not want to blow up as it would blow up profits.

As far as I know TSs cannot have casinos within them. None that I am familiar with do. That was supposed to be PHs, claim to fame that it was only TS in Vegas with a casino and on the  prime  strip. Yet there is a hotel over casino and TS is in back connected by a walkway.

A few years ago there was a rumor Wyndham had "bought" Imperial Palace and was going to tear down and put up something. As I recall strip is pretty full until you get past air port and all the TSs down there are height limited due to low flying planes.

Wyndham SEC 10K is due in a couple weeks and generally Main Man offers some insight into what plans are!


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## 55plus

massvacationer said:


> I agree.
> 
> This $12 fee sets a bad precedent within the Club Wyndham System.   It smells like BC owners are asking other Club Wyndham Owners (who own at different resorts) to subsidize BC maintenance fees.
> 
> The logical response would be for me to ask the HOAs at the three Wyndham resorts, where I own points, to impose mandatory parking/resort/amenity fees on other Wyndham owners.



As the president of the HOA at Wyndham Glacier Canyon, if someone purposed a waterpark surcharge to all NON-owners, I would consider it because it would save the owners millions of dollars a year on maintenance fees. I don't know what the MOU between Wyndham and the parks developers says about it. I guess I need to ask that question...


----------



## Sandy VDH

I just don't like the owner vs guest distinctions, and I own at Bonnet Creek.  Trust me my MF did not go down at all, even though there is more funds coming in to cover the transportation costs. 

Either the owners pays for it in MF or NOT.  

If the owner paid for it then everyone else who gets it via Wyndham, via RCI, via whatever; already has had it paid for. 

If the owner did not pay for it in MF, then it is a charge for usage by everyone, owner, exchanger, renter alike. 

I hate these distinctions.   It is just a cash grab IMHO.

If my MFs went down I would be fine, but they did not.


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## Goofyhobbie

Personally, I got into Timesharing over 25 years ago.  My very first exchange was an exchange to Orange Lake in Kissimmee, FL. 

Back then I went to Disney World because we had never been there. But, I have not been back to Disney since although I have been going to Bonnet Creek for years.

Because we don't go to Disney, we have never used the Shuttle Service at Bonnet Creek and never intend to use the service.

One of the attractions to the concept of Timesharing was  the ability to exchange through RCI or FAX (the internal exchange for Fairfield owners). 

Then and now the premise is that an owner would give up his "time" in exchange for the opportunity to exchange into the position of another owner at a RCI or FAX affiliated resort.

As an Exchanger into the other resort I was to get the use of all the amenities  that the original owner at that resort would receive if he or she were using the time instead of me. 

Meanwhile, whoever used my time at my resort would get the same  amenities that I was entitled to at my resort.

Each owner at each timeshare resort is responsible for his or her maintenance fee cost which is proportionally shared with all owners equally and that owner reasonably should expect that the cost would rise with inflation; but when an exchange is made that owner would not have any responsibility for maintenance cost at the resort that was exchanged into.

While I understand the motivation for [the Board of Directors of the HOA at Bonnet Creek] to vote to put the burden on "Guests" who exchange into Bonnet Creek and not on the contract holders at Bonnet Creek, even though they may or may not use the same services, doing that is a precedent that should not have been put up to a vote  unless the "usage" charge was to be established for all who end up staying at the resort.

When an HOA believes that they should not pay for an amenity at the home resort they should vote to terminate that amenity to remove the expense and accept the consequences of their vote.  

In time the decision to impose the fee on everyone except owners will escalate to other resorts across the country.  

Why should an owner at a Wyndham with a nice water park, for example, pay for the cost of the nice pools, parking facilities, shuttle transportation and/or other amenities at his or her home resort and also pay for comparable amenities at other Wyndham Resorts that he or she chooses to utilize? 

Is what has happened at Wyndham Bonnet Creek going to become a precedent that will expand to all resorts and effectively kill the fundamental premise of timesharing?


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## jjmanthei05

morrisjim said:


> As the president of the HOA at Wyndham Glacier Canyon, if someone purposed a waterpark surcharge to all NON-owners, I would consider it because it would save the owners millions of dollars a year on maintenance fees. I don't know what the MOU between Wyndham and the parks developers says about it. I guess I need to ask that question...



You would be willing to go along with it even though it would hurt the rentals you have? 

Jason


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## ronparise

Sandy VDH said:


> I just don't like the owner vs guest distinctions, and I own at Bonnet Creek.  Trust me my MF did not go down at all, even though there is more funds coming in to cover the transportation costs.
> 
> Either the owners pays for it in MF or NOT.
> 
> If the owner paid for it then everyone else who gets it via Wyndham, via RCI, via whatever; already has had it paid for.
> 
> If the owner did not pay for it in MF, then it is a charge for usage by everyone, owner, exchanger, renter alike.
> 
> I hate these distinctions.   It is just a cash grab IMHO.
> 
> If my MFs went down I would be fine, but they did not.



But think how much they would have gone up if they didnt institute this fee.


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## 55plus

jjmanthei05 said:


> You would be willing to go along with it even though it would hurt the rentals you have?
> 
> Jason




First of all, my position is that the OWNERS at the resort should be exempt from resort surcharges.

If something like what Bonnet Creek is going was implemented at Glacier Canyon then it would be collected at the resort - they know who are owners, non owners and guests. I would need to add something about a fee to my ads and listings. The demand is so great that it wouldn't hurt the rental market. 

We're currently in Hawaii and when we checkout we'll have to pay a lodging tax even though we're staying at Wyndham Beach Walk in a condo where we own. We pay property taxes in our maintenance fees for this resort and this tax too. There are a few Wyndham resorts where you pay an electric usage charge when you stay there.

As long as the surcharges are applied against owner maintenance fees dollar for dollar and not go into the corporate coffers I think I might be okay with it.


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## Sandy VDH

ronparise said:


> But think how much they would have gone up if they didnt institute this fee.



I did not see a vote as other posters have suggested, and I do not see how if any effects passing this has on MFs, keeping them down or driving them up. MF were already agreed upon and this change came as a seperate decision after the fact. 

I think it is just a money grab.


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## pacodemountainside

Ron:

You early rising Florida  retirees beat us   high noon rising  Western horse traders to the punch/spoils  every time.

Yes, BC HOA fee has been around $4.60 for last 4 years which is on low side of $5.00. I have not seen what it is for 2013 but if about the same then new fee just kept from rising.


Like POA fee remained constant for about last 4 years by  raising other fees such as guest certificates  and  zapping EOY owners with double fee in 2011. Apparently they  just decided this year  to  hit everyone with an across board increase of $.03.

Expenses  go up each year and some one's ox has to be gored.

I would certainly expect owners  at other resorts to start clamoring for their HOAs  to  zing the non-owners  staying there.

Like the air lines starting eliminating meals, blankets, pillows, charging for  checked bags,   decent seat, ad nauseam.  Once  the  raping starts there is no end to one oneupmanship!

It would be interesting in Sandy provided   this thread with  who  BC   BOD is  and  curriculum vita and see if  this was Wyndham goons doing or an independent  owner  BOD!


----------



## jjmanthei05

morrisjim said:


> First of all, my position is that the OWNERS at the resort should be exempt from resort surcharges.
> 
> If something like what Bonnet Creek is going was implemented at Glacier Canyon then it would be collected at the resort - they know who are owners, non owners and guests. I would need to add something about a fee to my ads and listings. The demand is so great that it wouldn't hurt the rental market.
> 
> We're currently in Hawaii and when we checkout we'll have to pay a lodging tax even though we're staying at Wyndham Beach Walk in a condo where we own. We pay property taxes in our maintenance fees for this resort and this tax too. There are a few Wyndham resorts where you pay an electric usage charge when you stay there.
> 
> As long as the surcharges are applied against owner maintenance fees dollar for dollar and not go into the corporate coffers I think I might be okay with it.



I disagree. If I'm an owner and I'm sending a guest then I expect them to be treated the same way as I am treated. I wouldn't like it if i am actually sending a guest and then I have to tell them by the way you have to pay X dollars extra. The difference between BC and Hawaii is Hawaii is charged by the government and BC is charged by the HOA. There is nothing the resort can do about the fee in Hawaii. 

Jason


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## csxjohn

jjmanthei05 said:


> I disagree. If I'm an owner and I'm sending a guest then I expect them to be treated the same way as I am treated. I wouldn't like it if i am actually sending a guest and then I have to tell them by the way you have to pay X dollars extra. The difference between BC and Hawaii is Hawaii is charged by the government and BC is charged by the HOA. There is nothing the resort can do about the fee in Hawaii.
> 
> Jason



And that fee is charged to everyone staying there, owner or not.  

If everyone staying at a resort is charged for an amenity I have no problem with it.

This is going to end up costing us all more and putting more money into the corporate coffers.  We will end up telling our HOAs, hey, we get charged for this or that when we stay at X, Y, and Z resort, let's start charging outsiders who come here some extra charges.

This is just wrong and not the way exchanging was meant to be.

This has been brought up in other threads and  someone states that in New Jersey a resort cannot charge different fees to owners and non owners.

It seems NJ is doing it right.

See post #31 in this thread which has a lot of different view points on this same subject.
http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=175683&highlight=outraged


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## Explorer7

Manhattan Club in NYC charges non owners $25 per day resort fee, I used Wyn points through RCI, didn't like it but I paid it. If memory serves me their fee was for the GYM and WIFI.


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## MichaelColey

Explorer7 said:


> Manhattan Club in NYC charges non owners $25 per day resort fee, I used Wyn points through RCI, didn't like it but I paid it. If memory serves me their fee was for the GYM and WIFI.


Actually, I think that's for daily housekeeping (on a 1BR, or $15 on a Studio), and I think it's *only* for RCI exchanges.


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## lcml11

Stayed at a non-Wyndham resort in Atlantic City, New Jersey paid a extra fee that was assessed to people booking through RCI.  Do not remember technically what it was for, it was around 50 dollars for a few night stay.


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## tschwa2

> Stayed at a non-Wyndham resort in Atlantic City, New Jersey paid a extra fee that was assessed to people booking through RCI. Do not remember technically what it was for, it was around 50 dollars for a few night stay.



If you book less than a week's stay using RCI points expect to pay a housekeeping fee.  They usually range from $45-$85 for the week and are usually based on the size of the unit.  It doesn't matter if you stay one day or 6 days.  The original owner paid MF's for one housekeeping per week so they charge for the extra cleaning. It should be only one have of the actual cleaning cost because two are paying it and the second one should be included and if no one stays for the second half it shouldn't need to be cleaned again.


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## jjmanthei05

One interesting note (which I'm not sure if anyone in the last almost 300 post has pointed out) guests of the Wyndham bonnet creek hotel pay a similar fee as the timeshare side per day. If you look at the Wyndham hotel, when you look at est fees and taxes, they pay a $16 resort fee on top of the the cost of the hotel room. I wonder if that is where the TS side got it from?

Jason


----------



## Pietin

ronparise said:


> Im just repeating what Ive said before..there is no difference between the points from one resort or another when used as currency to "buy" reservations at another resort within the system



Ron, I pondered you evaluations of Points being Points and have to respectfully disagree.  If points were pure currency and the currency was the same then the same amount of currency should get you the same item.  So if I work in Illinois and you work in Florida (or where ever) and we both earn $224.  We both can take that $224 rent a room at Bonnet Creek.  Because I earned this currency in Illinois I have to pay an extra tax on it, $86 But by virtue of you earning that money in Florida you do not have to.  This make the value of the currency I have less that the value of the currency you have but his extra taxed amount.  Points are no longer Points.  

Now you could argue that there difference in maintenance fee (which there are) but if you earn currency there are difference in hourly wage.  If you make 100K a year or you make minimum wage, you still can use the same dollar to get a Sweet Tea at Micky D’s that currency is the same, you are not charge an extra tax for going to Micky D’s outside the state you earn your dollar in or because it took you more or less time to earn it.  

VIP discount can be argued too, but VIP discount does not change the published rate a resort gets for a room.  The discount is off of the published much like a coupon.  If you have the coupon you get the discount. 

Now Kingsgate has been brought into the conversation.  They charge the fee to all who use the resort; this is a tax on all.  This is a more far tax because it does not single out a class of ownership it still is a tax and does not make point equal. 

It can be argued that ARP makes points unequal.  You get a change to book a room before me and vice versa.  ARP is does not make point unequal.   Say we are both working at two different companies where points are currency.  We can ask our bosses of an advance.  So I ask for the advance.  The boss says ok but you have to use it at the at the company store.  I can then book in at the company store.  There is no upcharge in the posted rates to book there, no is there a fee on the advance.  You could do the same of your company.      

CWA is much the same.  If could be looked at as a corporation where the privileges and benefits are given to an employee at one location and can be used at another. 

Any additional requirements on the use of points from one resort to the other no longer make them equal.  The fee changes the playing fee for the Wyndham Points exchange system.  



morrisjim said:


> As the president of the HOA at Wyndham Glacier Canyon, if someone purposed a waterpark surcharge to all NON-owners, I would consider it because it would save the owners millions of dollars a year on maintenance fees. I don't know what the MOU between Wyndham and the parks developers says about it. I guess I need to ask that question...



Jim thanks for serving on the board.  

My first impressions were that was a good idea to do the same is my knee jerk reaction.  Why should someone come here from Bonnet Creek and enjoy what my maintenance fee pay for.   After all, our maintenance fees are more so we should get more for our bang.  But much like the response to Ron above, I had to think about it.  It takes away what we all bought into the Wyndham Points system for, the ability to use our points to trade as currency from one resort to the other.  I don’t think anyone was told at the sales meeting that your points will only be good at your home resort.  

By imposing taxes on non-owner we are devaluing the system as a whole.  If Glacier Canyon charges say $15 a day, which would be a bargain, and then owners at Tamarack look at their maintenance fee and says we are we paying so much more that everywhere else.  Then they decided to charge $8 dollars a day.   After all if Glacier Canyon could get $15 dollars were are just down the road, we are worth at least $8.  Now the owners at Branson decided to charge a fee too because they don’t like staying in the Dells and getting charged a fee.  It then becomes a snowball effect.  People would then tend to stay at only their home resorts.  They system would breakdown.  

And maybe this is what Wyndham wants, to keep owners going to their home resorts or to just sell CWA contract.    

Or maybe it is just a way for Wyndham to impose more fees on the owners without directly raising the maintenance fees.  

I am just an observer it but that what I think. 

Steve


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## ronparise

Steve...

My point is that points are still points when used at places other than your home resort

Clearly if I own at Bonnet Creek, and you dont and we both want reservations at Bonnet Creek, my points are better than yours. I get a jump on reserving the best weeks (ARP)  and now I get a pass on the $12 a day

But neithe one of us owns at Bonnet Creek. For example if I own at National Harbor and you own at Canterbury, our points spend the same at Bonnet Creek..224k plus $84  gets a week in a 2 bedroom in prime season. In their use, my points are the same as your points


----------



## lcml11

ronparise said:


> Steve...
> 
> My point is that points are still points when used at places other than your home resort
> 
> Clearly if I own at Bonnet Creek, and you dont and we both want reservations at Bonnet Creek, my points are better than yours. I get a jump on reserving the best weeks (ARP)  and now I get a pass on the $12 a day
> 
> But neithe one of us owns at Bonnet Creek. For example if I own at National Harbor and you own at Canterbury, our points spend the same at Bonnet Creek..224k plus $84  gets a week in a 2 bedroom in prime season. In their use, my points are the same as your points



But you forget to mention my Smokey Mountain points (under the CWA maintance fee rate) compared against your resort that has maintance fees above the CWA rate.  in that case my cost per thousand points is less than yours.  Therefore, I get more use days for my contract than you do for your contract.  

My contract would lose to your contract that has fees under $ 4 per thousand points.

As far as Kingsgate getting into the conversation, lets look at the Wyndham Kingsgate points vs. Wyndham Patriots Place points from a use point of view.  Same would hold true with your (fill in the  resort points) and the Wyndham Patriot's Place points.  I do not know if the Club Wyndham Access owners get treeted like Patriot's Place owners or like Kingsgate owners for the purpose of the Kingsgate fees.

If you were a owner at Wyndham Patriots Place, you get use rights of the Kingsgate facilities without a additional charge.  If you are a Kingsgate owner, you get the honor of paying the additional fees.  I would therefore suggest the Wyndham Patriot's Place points are more valuable than the Wyndham Kingsgate owners when they are compared from a total dollar spent for equilvant uses.

As it relates to the Wyndham Platinum points vs. non-VIP Wyndham points:  Your Wyndham points generally get the coupons that are made reference to in the hypothetical to my coupons.  You get about 0 to 40 percent off at some resorts on short notice reservations.  Mine start at 50 percent and go up on short notice reservations, typically, I have more resorts to chose from before your availability dries up and mine goes away.

Update:  Just checked with Patriots Place, anyone staying at Patriots Place, guest, RCI reservation, owner, etc. do not pay the additional fee that the owners do of Kingsgate.


----------



## ronparise

lcml11 said:


> But you forget to mention my Smokey Mountain points (under the CWA maintance fee rate) compared against your resort that has maintance fees above the CWA rate.  in that case my cost per thousand points is less than yours.  Therefore, I get more use days for my contract than you do for your contract.



My statement is: 

*IN THEIR USE* points are points

If I have $10 in my pocket and you have $10 in yours, who's $10 bill  is better...I would argue that in their use they are exactly the same.  a dollar is a dollar. That your grandmother gave you yours for being a good boy, and I had to work an hour in the hot sun putting a roof on some guys house to earn mine is of no consequence to the cashier at Mc Donalds . He doesnt care that yours cost you nothing and I had to work for mine 

You can argue all day that your money is better than mine, but when it comes to spending it, it doesnt matter.

I realize some Wyndham points are cheaper to buy than others and the maintenance costs vary..but at the end of the day, when you make a reservation and I make a reservation our points "spend" exactly alike.


----------



## lcml11

ronparise said:


> My statement is:
> 
> *IN THEIR USE* points are points
> 
> If I have $10 in my pocket and you have $10 in yours, who's $10 bill  is better...I would argue that in their use they are exactly the same.  a dollar is a dollar. That your grandmother gave you yours for being a good boy, and I had to work an hour in the hot sun putting a roof on some guys house to earn mine is of no consequence to the cashier at Mc Donalds . He doesnt care that yours cost you nothing and I had to work for mine
> 
> You can argue all day that your money is better than mine, but when it comes to spending it, it doesnt matter.
> 
> I realize some Wyndham points are cheaper to buy than others and the maintenance costs vary..but at the wne of the day, when you make a reservation and I make a reservation our points "spend" exactly alike.




If you are a Bonnet Creek guest or a Kingsgate owner vs. someone staying at Patriots Place or a owner or Club Wyndham Access member at Bonnet Creek, the difference is when you pay your $10 dollars then leave.  I have to come up with more money to clear the bill.

To the limited extent that Wyndham Club Access points are Wyndham Club Access points at this point in time, I would tend to agree.


----------



## Pietin

lcml11 said:


> If you are a Bonnet Creek guest or a Kingsgate owner vs. someone staying at Patriots Place or a owner or Club Wyndham Access member at Bonnet Creek, the difference is when you pay your $10 dollars then leave.  I have to come up with more money to clear the bill.
> 
> To the limited extent that Wyndham Club Access points are Wyndham Club Access points at this point in time, I would tend to agree.



lcml11 You hit the nail on the head.   You said it nice and concise.  Either $10 or $10 plus a little more.


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## lcml11

Pietin said:


> lcml11 You hit the nail on the head.   You said nice and concise.  Either $10 or $10 plus a little more.



Thank-you.


----------



## ronparise

If I own bonnet creek points than absolutely my points are better than yours when spent at Bonnet Creek. Im not arguing against that. but when I use my bonnet creek points to stay somewhere else in the system..my points work the same as any other points


The points are points argument is never made without the caveat  unless you want ARP at a particular resort...Now we have to add or unless you want to avoid the $12 a day fee at Bonnet...and the only reason I make the points are points argument is to suggest that a buyer look to the resorts with lower than average maintenance fees.

So the statement is (or will be): When shopping for Wyndham points, understand some will cost mere than others to buy, and some will cost more to own. Unless you need ARP (or unless you want to avoid the $12 fee at Bonnet creek) understand when it comes to the use of points, Points  are Points. look for a contract with low mf and a low purchase price.


----------



## csxjohn

ronparise said:


> ...When shopping for Wyndham points, understand some will cost mere than others to buy, and some will cost more to own. Unless you need ARP (or unless you want to avoid the $12 fee at Bonnet creek) understand when it comes to the use of points, Points  are Points. look for a contract with low mf and a low purchase price.



Your disclaimer is getting longer than your mess apron.


----------



## lcml11

csxjohn said:


> Your disclaimer is getting longer than your mess apron.



In the interest of being short sweet and to the point, it would just be easyier to say Wyndham Points are not necessarly Wyndham Points.


----------



## ronparise

lcml11 said:


> In the interest of being short sweet and to the point, it would just be easyier to say Wyndham Points are not necessarly Wyndham Points.



Then you will have to tell me other than at your home resort, where do you get more for your Myrtle beach points than I get for my National Harbor points or vice-versa


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## lcml11

ronparise said:


> Then you will have to tell me other than at your home resort, where do you get more for your Myrtle beach points than I get for my National Harbor points or vice-versa



You get much more for your National Harbor points than I do on reservations under 10 months (due to the lower maintance fees at National Harbor) unless my VIP discount is taken into account on the under 60 day window.  In which case, on average, I probably do better.

For my Myrtle Beach points (including my one Smokey Mountain contract that has receiprical ARP rights into Myrtle Beach, I would win on the ARP reservation window for Myrtle Beach.  

To the extent that I chose to use the book book cancel procedure or the book cancel rebook proceedure with my Wyndham Platinum points, I can get 50 percent discounts with a whole lot of free upgrades.  Since I have been with Wyndham, I do not think that I have had a completed full frieght reservation.  This gives me one heck of a lot more usage of the Wyndham Resorts than your National Harbor one.  We can even throw in Wyndham Silver VIP points and this would be true. 

All of my Wyndham Points are Wyndham Myrtle Beach/Wyndam Myrtle Beach, LLC and Smokey Mountain points.

P.S.  Staying at your resort gets us a heck of a parking bill while staying at my resorts does not.

Sorry, minor correction on my earlier post, I keep forgeting I have a small Club Wyndham Access contract.


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## Ron2

lcml11 said:


> You get much more for your National Harbor points than I do on reservations under 10 months (due to the lower maintance fees at National Harbor) unless my VIP discount is taken into account on the under 60 day window.  In which case, on average, I probably do better.
> 
> For my Myrtle Beach points (including my one Smokey Mountain contract that has receiprical ARP rights into Myrtle Beach, I would win on the ARP reservation window for Myrtle Beach.
> 
> To the extent that I chose to use the book book cancel procedure or the book cancel rebook proceedure with my Wyndham Platinum points, I can get 50 percent discounts with a whole lot of free upgrades.  Since I have been with Wyndham, I do not think that I have had a completed full frieght reservation.  This gives me one heck of a lot more usage of the Wyndham Resorts than your National Harbor one.  We can even throw in Wyndham Silver VIP points and this would be true.
> 
> All of my Wyndham Points are Wyndham Myrtle Beach/Wyndam Myrtle Beach, LLC and Smokey Mountain points.
> 
> P.S.  Staying at your resort gets us a heck of a parking bill while staying at my resorts does not.



There is no question that owning at certain resorts gives you more for your money spent in fees per 1000 points, however, I must agree with Ron Parise, once you have those points and use them for standard reservations – a point is a point no matter which resort it came from and no matter whether you are VIP or if you acquired your timeshares resale. The few advantages that VIP owners have with getting discounts and upgrades is a small consolation for the high price we paid initially for our points. As to the extra fees that are charged for parking, transportation, and special amenities at some resorts, they don’t really enter into the equation of “points = points” no matter which resort they came from. You can choose to use your points at those resorts that charge extra fees or you can go where they don’t.  A point from Bonnet Creek has the same usage value as one from Ocean Boulevard, National Harbor, Fairfield Glade or anywhere else in the Wyndham system.


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## lcml11

rsphelps said:


> There is no question that owning at certain resorts gives you more for your money spent in fees per 1000 points, however, I must agree with Ron Parise, once you have those points and use them for standard reservations – a point is a point no matter which resort it came from and no matter whether you are VIP or if you acquired your timeshares resale. The few advantages that VIP owners have with getting discounts and upgrades is a small consolation for the high price we paid initially for our points. As to the extra fees that are charged for parking, transportation, and special amenities at some resorts, they don’t really enter into the equation of “points = points” no matter which resort they came from. You can choose to use your points at those resorts that charge extra fees or you can go where they don’t.  A point from Bonnet Creek has the same usage value as one from Ocean Boulevard, National Harbor, Fairfield Glade or anywhere else in the Wyndham system.



Sorry, minor correction on my earlier post, I keep forgeting I have a small Club Wyndham Access contract.  I guess that makes me a owner under what appears to be Bonnet Creeks defination for use purposes.  To bad I do not get the other rights of Bonnet Creek ownership, like get a vote in the Board of director's election.


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## Ron2

lcml11 said:


> Sorry, minor correction on my earlier post, I keep forgeting I have a small Club Wyndham Access contract.  I guess that makes me a owner under what appears to be Bonnet Creeks defination for use purposes.  To bad I do not get the other rights of Bonnet Creek ownership, like get a vote in the Board of director's election.



The only thing my vote counted for was the quarum and I'm not sure if they even got that. So you're not missing out on anything by not having a vote. In fact the way it apperars, you have ownership in the way Wyndham is planning for the future. Whether or not thats good or bad, I'm not sure, but if and when every resort becomes part of Club Access, the value of deeded ownership and ARP will be gone.


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## lcml11

rsphelps said:


> The only thing my vote counted for was the quarum and I'm not sure if they even got that. So you're not missing out on anything by not having a vote. In fact the way it apperars, you have ownership in the way Wyndham is planning for the future. Whether or not thats good or bad, I'm not sure, but if and when every resort becomes part of Club Access, the value of deeded ownership and ARP will be gone.



I agree.  And, the way this ball is bouncing, the traditional UDI ownership may get more and more fees till they give back their deeds to Wyndham to re-sell into Club Wyndham Access.


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## PlasWinder

*Update*

This just in:



> Dear Owner:
> 
> As a result of recent feedback, the Bonnet Creek Home Owners Association has reversed the recently communicated $12 per unit / per day transportation fee for guests staying at Wyndham Bonnet Creek Resort. Beginning March 1, 2013, transportation fees will only be applied to individuals who use the Walt Disney World® Resort shuttles at the resort.
> 
> We remain committed to delivering exceptional Count On Me! service and creating vacation memories for you and your family and friends.
> 
> Thank you for your continued feedback and ongoing support.  We look forward to helping you get on your next vacation.
> 
> Sincerely,
> Richard Scinta, Resort Manager
> On behalf of the Board of Directors of
> Bonnet Creek Resort Vacation Condominium Association, Inc.


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## lcml11

Heatmerch1 said:


> Im new to the site but was trying to keep up and not ask the same thing twice..how would this fee work with somebody that has CWA?



From the postings of the E-Mails coming from the resorts, it looks like a use fee per person.  No exceptions appear to be mentioned.


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## lcml11

Heatmerch1 said:


> lcm you seem to know alot about timeshare along with everyone on this site. Im very glad to hve found this forum.



Thank-you for the comment.


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