# Resale Price Variation



## freewill (Feb 17, 2015)

Hi, 
So I am educating myself on HGVC and have a question about contracts I see listed for sale on reseller websites (e.g., Seth Nock and Judi K, as both are frequently recommended on these boards).  

When I see apparently identical contracts listed (i.e., same resort, same size, same season, same annual or biennial -- ergo, same points) but at widely divergent asking prices, is there anything I should be thinking of (or asking about) by way of understanding the dollar variation -- other than seller motivation to get out of the contract.  In other words, should I be worried about a contract that's priced significantly lower than comparable ones?

Since I'm obviously quite new at this, I'm concerned if there's something I'm missing.

Thanks,
Will


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## SmithOp (Feb 18, 2015)

Keep in mind Seth and Judy are brokers for owners of those contracts, the variations are just how realistic each owner is about selling.  You can make offers, the prices are not set in stone.  Seth and Judy advise the sellers on what price will clear rofr, but some want to hold out for more.


Sent from my iPad using the strange new version of Tapatalk


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## Talent312 (Feb 18, 2015)

Some sellers have quaint (inflated) notions of what their TS is worth and tell the broker to list it that way. Others, desperate to sell, underprice their TS, even though HGVC is likely to use their ROFR (right of first refusal) -- which they hold at nearly all resorts (not Flamingo).

These are two very reputable brokers. You can call the brokers to ask why theirs is different.
I'd compile a list of all similar packages and get an average price per point as a talking point.


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## JSparling (Feb 18, 2015)

The key to your question is "are the contracts identical". If they are identical - resort, season, size, usage (annual or EOY) - then they have equal points and equal maintenance fees. I recently bought bought 2 resale weeks and in talking with people and making offers and negotiating found that some people "think" they have a 2BR at the Vegas Strip location in the gold season but after digging into the contract and estoppel you actually find out it's a 2BR at the Karen Avenue property or you find out it's silver, not gold. 

In other words if the property is indeed identical then the price variance comes from the sellers heart/mind/misconception of the value. 

Seth/Judi aside be VERY careful when using a timeshare resale company as both my friend and I have found they intentionally try to sell you something different than they advertise. And if it's not "intentional" then they are total idiots and shouldn't be in business. The "Karen Avenue" vs. "Strip" example above seems to happen frequently if you watch these boards enough.


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## semicycler (Feb 18, 2015)

Most of the higher priced ones are from sellers who bought directly from Hilton at full price, and are reluctant to accept the "real" but significantly lower resale market prices.  I'd wager they are listing theirs for sale lower than what they paid, but still higher than the what the market will pay.

As others have said be sure everything is exactly the same when comparing two properties.  There are multiple properties in Las Vegas, Hawaii and Orlando that get mixed up all the time on listings.  If the two are truly the same, then price wins.  There is no other difference.

And be aware that Hilton has ROFR on almost all properties, so your best deal might be bought out from underneath you if the price is truly low.


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## Jason245 (Feb 18, 2015)

freewill said:


> Hi,
> So I am educating myself on HGVC and have a question about contracts I see listed for sale on reseller websites (e.g., Seth Nock and Judi K, as both are frequently recommended on these boards).
> 
> When I see apparently identical contracts listed (i.e., same resort, same size, same season, same annual or biennial -- ergo, same points) but at widely divergent asking prices, is there anything I should be thinking of (or asking about) by way of understanding the dollar variation -- other than seller motivation to get out of the contract.  In other words, should I be worried about a contract that's priced significantly lower than comparable ones?
> ...



The world of timesharing is full of this.  Unllike the normal real estate market, finding comps is hard (without extensive research), and determining value is even more difficult. 

Developers sell these things at significantly inflated prices to cover the marketing expenses (generally up to half of the selling price) as well as construction costs and a very generous comissions to the sales people, and still end up with a significant profit margin. 

Since the comissions for resale agents is much less, Agents can't afford the extensive marketing to compete. As such, there is a significant disparity in price given that buyers are overwhelmed with marketing from developers, and have to activly search for resale opportunities. Fewer resale buyers combined with a large resale market results in significant price depression and potential great deals for resale buyers (I have bought 2 contracts for HGVC affiliate  from ebay  for $60 all in (including closing) that would have cost over $30k if bought from the developer). 

That being said, some resorts and/or resort groups have significant penalties for resale buyers (Westgate). 

My recommendation is that you do a lot of research on all the offerings that are available to you (independents, Hotel chains, Disney) and figure out which if any product would suite your long term vacation needs and your economic situation. After you have done that, start looking for the best prices.  DO NOT RUSH. Any "good" Price you see will probably still be available in 6 months and once you pull the trigger you are stuck.

My other suggestions are to make sure you payback is within less than 5 years and to always have an escape route ready (have the money available to give it away and pay for closing). This way, you are never stuck with no escape.


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## TUGBrian (Feb 18, 2015)

http://tug2.net/timeshare_advice/cant-sell-timeshare.html


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## freewill (Feb 18, 2015)

Thanks everyone for your thoughtful replies. I'm looking at Vegas and Orlando for low MFs, preferably 1bd platinum season in order to keep upfront purchase costs low and not pay higher 2 bd MF costs ongoingly. I think we can do fine on 4800 points but if I'm wrong, being new to time sharing, I would prefer that we wish in hindsight that we had bought more points rather than wishing we had less. 

Good tip to be careful about resort names when evaluating contracts. Seems like the Vegas resorts each have two or three names.

Cheers


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## vacationbear (Feb 18, 2015)

freewill said:


> . I think we can do fine on 4800 points but if I'm wrong, being new to time sharing, I would prefer that we wish in hindsight that we *had bought more points* rather than wishing we had less.
> 
> Cheers



Yup, my thoughts exactly when I was looking to expand my 8400 Lagoon Tower TS point count.
Instead of lower MF I opted for the best points/ MF ratio.
This will lead you to Kings Land.

Right now I am in the middle (with Seth's office again) of buying a 12600 point 2bd Platinum at KL.


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## brp (Feb 19, 2015)

SmithOp;1728404Seth and Judy advise the sellers on what price will clear rofr said:
			
		

> And they can also advise you, the buyer. We bought W. 57th with Judi. She told me "offer this or it's very unlikely to pass ROFR." Could she have inflated a bit as she makes more that way? Maybe. But looking elsewhere, it wasn't much, if at all. Things seemed to even out.
> 
> We also bought Flamingo. Since they have no ROFR, it was all about what we could negotiate. I found some prices lower than her listings, suggested that to her assistant, and one of the people selling took it.
> 
> ...


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## freewill (Feb 21, 2015)

Well thanks again everyone.  I hope I took your collective advice working with Judi K's folks in making the following purchase:  1 bd platinum at the HGVClub on the Las Vegas Strip (4800 points – annual usage) for $2500.

Think it'll pass ROFR?  If it does, I figure that our break even should occur in under 5 years depending on usage -- or just two or three trips if we luck out getting a DVC stay or two through RCI.


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## GTLINZ (Feb 21, 2015)

freewill said:


> Well thanks again everyone.  I hope I took your collective advice working with Judi K's folks in making the following purchase:  1 bd platinum at the HGVClub on the Las Vegas Strip (4800 points – annual usage) for $2500.
> 
> Think it'll pass ROFR?  If it does, I figure that our break even should occur in under 5 years depending on usage -- or just two or three trips if we luck out getting a DVC stay or two through RCI.



I think the chances of it passing ROFR are good - but if it does not, then try again.  That sounds like a fair price. I bought the same season/unit size resale in 2005 and the prices are considerably lower than they were then.


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## PassionForTravel (Feb 21, 2015)

I think that's a fantastic price for the Strip. Let us know if it passes ROFR.

Ian


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## vacationbear (Feb 21, 2015)

freewill said:


> 1 bd platinum at the HGVClub on the Las Vegas Strip (4800 points – annual usage) for $2500.
> I figure that our break even should occur in under 5 years depending on usage -- or just two or three trips if we luck out getting a DVC stay or two through RCI.



Would you share how do you calculate the break-even time frame?
Did you consider the annual MF you will have to pay (I think around $570 plus $140 club dues)?

I searched for 1bd room rates and they come in around $129 per night, or around $100 for AARP members. Even during the 4th of July time frame they are "only" around $110 per night at that property.
Not bad for such a nice room that you are getting, but LV offers lots of deals as well.
Your annual dues are around $700- or just about 6 to 7 nights.

The same calculation mostly applies for Kings Land as well, yet there are some savings (maybe around $500 to $1000 per 7 day stay).

The big savings would apply for Lagoon Tower since one would have to book a Junior Suite. Since rooms start in the $320 range, your ~$700 MF would buy a ~$2200 vacation week. :whoopie:


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## freewill (Feb 21, 2015)

vacationbear said:


> Would you share how do you calculate the break-even time frame?
> Did you consider the annual MF you will have to pay (I think around $570 plus $140 club dues)?
> 
> I searched for 1bd room rates and they come in around $129 per night, or around $100 for AARP members. Even during the 4th of July time frame they are "only" around $110 per night at that property.
> ...



I actually don't see us staying at the HGVC LV Strip (or LV at all) in the next few years -- to me, this is predominantly a points purchase at the lowest MF HGVC property (at least currently).  For the next few years, I anticipate that our usage would be in Orlando, where we've visited the last 5 years.  So I expect to save roughly $1000 per stay (cost of stay less MF) based on our past few years where we've spent north of $200 per night on average.  And if we luck out and get a DVC stay (which I seriously hope we do), I think we'd save twice that at least.  I'm obviously using rough numbers without any time-value adjustment or precise calcs.  

Down the line, I see us visiting LV and Hawaii, and elsewhere, by which time I hope and expect that our buy-in cost has been pretty much recouped and our annual MF is well under the usage cost.  I hope I'm not dreaming in this regard...but happy to hear any doubts in this regard now rather than later!

Thanks


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## vacationbear (Feb 22, 2015)

Yup, makes sense. Which Orlando resort did you stay at?


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## freewill (Feb 23, 2015)

vacationbear said:


> Yup, makes sense. Which Orlando resort did you stay at?



Did the pitch at Parc Soleil last year; bought the VIP, thinking we were smart; found TUG once home and realized we weren't so smart; rescinded on last day possible; researched TUG since then.  In a nutshell...

Have also stayed several times at Hilton Bonnet Creek and a couple times on WDW property.  HBC is a great hotel property with a fantastic pool/lazy river, but rates were better when the hotel was newer.


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## vacationbear (Feb 23, 2015)

Right on!  
TUG is invaluable! The info shared here is priceless- and will save you tens of thousands of $$$...


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## 1Kflyerguy (Mar 3, 2015)

I have only been watching the resale prices for a year or so.. but it did seem like there was a spike in overpriced listings on eBay and other places around the end of the year..  I assume that is due to maintenance fees being due, and lots of people that don't really follow the TS market, trying to unload their units and avoid paying the 2015 fees.

It does make me wonder when i see two different listing for essentially the same resort/room/ season for vastly different prices on the same board or site.

Seems like you would at least make an attempt to see what the competition is asking for similar units before trying to sell yours.


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## Jason245 (Mar 3, 2015)

1Kflyerguy said:


> Seems like you would at least make an attempt to see what the competition is asking for similar units before trying to sell yours.



You are expecting people to make more effort selling a timeshare than they did buying it?

:rofl:


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## 1Kflyerguy (Mar 6, 2015)

Jason245 said:


> You are expecting people to make more effort selling a timeshare than they did buying it?
> 
> :rofl:



Your probably right, that was a silly idea on my part...:whoopie:

But in reality i am pretty sure it is more work to sell or get rid of timeshare than to buy one....  Even the big name brands are not always an easy sell


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