# HCC Stowe



## SamH (Jun 22, 2007)

We are staying at Smugglers Notch in Vermont (where we own and visit a few times each year) and took a quick look at the HCC property in Stowe. Even though Stowe is a short drive from Smuggs during the summer (the drive through the notch is closed during the winter), we rarely drive to the other side of the mountain to visit Stowe so it was good to remind us what they have there.

The townhouse is part of the Stoweflake Mountain Resort and Spa complex. The Spa is highly rated nationally. We (my wife and I) are not spa users so it was funny when we tried to identify some of the treatments they provide. Other guests at Smuggs have said good things about the Spa. 

This was our first look at an HCC property as our membership starts in 2008 (we can't wait to go to Copper Mountain this February). The property is very nice. It is two stories. There is a one bedroom suite on the first floor that can be locked off the rest of the unit. The bedroom had a king size bed. The lock-off area had its own living room and there was a microwave and mini refrigerator in the hallway. It was very nice and would be ideal if you were travelling with a couple who wanted a little bit of privacy (we could lock ourselves in and let the kids have the rest of the house). The furniture in this area and the rest of the townhouse was very nice and upscale. 

There was also a nice size kitchen with all the amenities on the first floor. It had stainless steel appliances and granite countertop, as well as a fully loaded spice rack and a supply of coffee and tea. The whole kitchen, dining room and living room were very open.

There were two bedrooms upstairs, including the master. There was a whirlpool tub in the master bath (and one in the full bathroom downstairs). These tubs would fit one of us (or one of me with no additional capacity). The second bedroom had two queen beds.

The resort has some tennis courts, a 9 hole 3 par golf course (which is too close to the townhouses for my taste), an indoor pool and an outdoor pool. We didn't look at these so we can't say how large or nice they are. Looking at the map, the resort is next door to the Stowe Country Club.  

The townhouse was nicer than any timeshare we have visited, including Smuggs, HGVC at Seaworld, Lake Condominiums at Big Sky, etc. It is on par with the two Registry Collection trades we've made. We have stayed in a 4 bedroom unit at Hearthstone in McCall, Idaho and a 3 bedroom unit at Dye Villas in North Myrtle Beach.

Stowe has many things to offer, including many excellent restaurants, some of which are within walking distance of the HCC property. Main Street in Stowe is about a five minute drive from the resort and skiing should be less than ten minutes away from the resort in the other direction. If the skiing at Stowe is similar to the skiing at Smuggs, the trails are icier and narrower than the trails out West but still very good.

During the summer, there is a farmers market across the street from the resort on Sundays. The resort also hosts an annual ballon festival (July 6-8 this year). Stowe also has a few things to do, including an alpine slide, a great bike path the passes by the resort, great hiking and a gondola ride that goes to the top (or near the top) of Mount Mansfield, which is the tallest mountain in Vermont. There are lots of other things to do in the area (and in Burlington), including visiting Ben & Jerrys plant, watching minor league baseball, sailing in Lake Champlain, visitng Shelburne Farms or the Shelburne Musuem.

We will probably spend some time at the Stowe location at the end or beginning of one our Smuggs trip.

Sam


----------



## charford (Jun 25, 2007)

Sam

As you know, there is a large variation in the amenities of Smuggs units. Are you saying that the HCC Stowe unit is nicer than even the Owls/Eagles units?


----------



## SamH (Jun 25, 2007)

Charford,

I am staying in our Falcons unit and the HCC property is definitely nicer than that. I was in a Kestrels unit last year. I believe the HCC unit was nicer than the Kestrels unit (I remember the details of the trip but not the furnishings), but I liked the Kestrels stone fireplace better than the HCC fireplaces. 

I have not tried to see the inside of an Eagles or Owls unit. In general, HCC property is a little larger and has more bathrooms. Each HCC bedroom has its own bathroom. I have 3 daughters who are teenagers or soon entering their teenage years so bathrooms have become an important factor for harmonious vacations (it has not been easy for the past few weeks as we have all had to share two bathrooms). The Owls and Eagles units will have better views than the HCC property because the views on the North Hill are great. Neither property is ski-in/ski-out so that is not a factor.

I am at Smuggs for a few more days. If I get a chance, I will try to see an Owls or Eagles unit and let you know.

Our family loves Smuggs for so many reasons (and the ski-in/ski-out at Falcons when there is snow) so HCC Stowe will not replace our Smuggs visits (4-6 weeks per year). We would use the Stowe property at the beginning or tail end of one of our Smuggs trips to have a chance to ski at Stowe, which we have bever done.

Sam


----------



## charford (Jun 27, 2007)

Thanks Sam.

I own in Kestrels. I agree that the ski-in, ski-out convenience of Falcons is hard to beat. It's good to have a comparison between something I know well, such as Smuggs and HCC. 

I'd be interested to hear what you think of a comparison between Owls/Eagles and the HCC property. Smuggs keeps building them bigger and better!

Cathy


----------



## SamH (Jun 27, 2007)

Charford,

I took a look at the Owls model unit and it was great. Both the HCC Stowe property and Owls unit are very nice and I would be happy to stay at either property. I will try to compare the two properties below.

Kitchens - both kitchens are similar. They are spacious, have granite countertops, stainless steel appliances. The only advantage for HCC is that they have included small things like the spice rack so it is a little more like home.

Bathrooms - The Owls master bathroom is definitely the best of all the bathrooms. It is much larger than the HCC bathrooms, has a two person whirlpool tub, a two person shower and plenty of room to move around. The Owls second full bathroom is not nearly as nice but functional. The HCC property has has two very nice master bathrooms and another nice full bathroom for the third bedroom. Both units also have a half bathroom. Therefore, if you need more bathrooms, the HCC property is better. If you are a couple with or without a couple of younger kids, the Owls bathrooms are better. 

Bedrooms - Both properties have three bedrooms. They are very different. The master bedroom in the Owls is similar to HCC's master bedroom. Both rooms have a fireplace. The Owls second bathroom has a queen size bed and is no where near as nice or as spacious as the main floor suite on the first floor of the HCC property. The third bedroom at Owls is the standard larger room with four twin beds. It is excellent if you have four kids (we do, so it works great for us). The HCC third bedroom has two beds. They are either full or queen size beds. Overall, the HCC bedrooms are nicer but, given your own situation, the Owls bedrooms may work better.

Living room/ Dining room - Both rooms are similar. The HCC property has some nice touches like the X-box and some recent DVDs. The furniture in the HCC property is nicer. The stone fireplace in the Owls is nicer.

Sun room - The Owls wins because it has one and the HCC property does not. There are great views from this room.

Views - The Owls is on the mountain and has great views. The HCC property has nice views but not nearly as nice as Owls.

Other - The ceilings are higher at the HCC property. In that regard, it is more like our house than a hotel room and helps make the property more attractive. The Owls ceilings are standard and not as nice.

More other - The Owls units are selling as 1/3 or 1/2 the year versus the various membership packages at HCC and costs significantly more. Smuggs will include unused weeks in the rental property. If you plan on using the major weeks, Presidents Week or Christmas, and a few more of the prime weeks, the net rental income may or may not cover maintenance. The Owls will also trade with RCI and the registry collection. Overall, unless you are using your own weeks, availability is easier at HCC.

Smuggs is a very special place if you have kids. We have been coming for about ten years and our kids still love it and look forward to coming. If you are traveling with adults, you may prefer the HCC property as Stowe has some more adult activities.

Sam


----------



## GregGH (Jun 27, 2007)

SamH said:


> We are staying at Smugglers Notch in Vermont (where we own and visit ...snip ....
> The townhouse was nicer than any timeshare we have visited, including Smuggs, HGVC at Seaworld, Lake Condominiums at Big Sky, etc. It is on par with the *two Registry Collection trades we've made*. We have stayed in a 4 bedroom unit at Hearthstone in McCall, Idaho and a 3 bedroom unit at Dye Villas in North Myrtle Beach.
> ...snip ....



Sam

I don't want to hijack this thread --- any chance you could post another in this forum on comments for Registry Collection ??  You are the first I have seen mention you have used them ... I think upscale exchange companies will fit mandate for 'non-traditional' 

Thanking you in advance
Regards
Greg


----------



## Steamboat Bill (Jun 27, 2007)

GregGH said:


> Sam
> 
> I don't want to hijack this thread --- any chance you could post another in this forum on comments for Registry Collection ??  You are the first I have seen mention you have used them ... I think upscale exchange companies will fit mandate for 'non-traditional'



I agree...but let's start a new thread.

The Registry Collection program is the industry’s first and foremost luxury global exchange network product, serving more than 20,000 members with ownerships at more than 100 affiliated luxury leisure assets worldwide. It has operated as a division within the RCI Global Vacation Network since 2002.

I have NOT talked with anyone from this network and it is almost 10x larger than Exclusive Resorts.

My first question is how expensive is it?


----------



## charford (Jul 14, 2007)

*Stowe vs another eastern ski resort*

Does anyone has any insight into why HCC decided to purchase in Stowe as opposed to something at or near another Eastern ski resort? I visited the condo this past week and  while it's furnished very nicely, it is not close to the ski hill. The main amenity on site seems to be the spa, which IMO appeals to a limited number of people. 

One of the main features of their Colorado properties is the closeness to the hill, so I was just wondering why they purchased at Stoweflake. Heath has been out of the office, so I haven't been able to get an answer from him.


----------



## pwrshift (Aug 17, 2007)

Interesting point. My own observation of many DC's is that they are not 'on' the beach, not 'on' the ski hill, etc., UNLESS you pay the $400,000 membership fees. 

Who wants to be just 'near' the beach and not 'on' the beach especially if it costs you $300+ a night in fees. Even at my Beachplace Towers Marriott I can get up and have my breakfast/coffee facing the beach - just as the do next door in the $4 million St Regis condos that ER has. I don't like what has happened to Beachplace over the years by mismanagement of the owner maintenance fees, but there's nothing like the location, which is really the only reason I put up with it (but don't shut up).

I was keen on HCC until I looked at their roster.  I've stayed in bigger hotel rooms in NYC than HCC has ... and their HH resort isn't on the beach, nor are their FL properties.  In addition, those on the East coast are really out of luck in selection of locations and thought that Stowe might help some.  I'm not a ski bum - in fact I run from the snow/ice/cold in Toronto every winter to my 'on' the beach timeshare or my 'on' the golfcourse Manor Club where the maintenance gets me 6 free rounds of golf.

Brian



charford said:


> Does anyone has any insight into why HCC decided to purchase in Stowe as opposed to something at or near another Eastern ski resort? I visited the condo this past week and *while it's furnished very nicely, it is not close to the ski hill*. The main amenity on site seems to be the spa, which IMO appeals to a limited number of people.
> .


----------



## Kagehitokiri (Aug 17, 2007)

> nteresting point. My own observation of many DC's is that they are not 'on' the beach, not 'on' the ski hill, etc., UNLESS you pay the $400,000 membership fees.


 
aren't a couple of *HCC*'s units in *ski-in/out* buildings? i seem to recall that.

there are a number of clubs starting way below $400K, and some of them definitely have detached single family homes that are ski-in/out and oceanfront.

beachfront is definitely *less* common though. quintess has one, and lusso might have 2. but thats all thats coming to mind right now.


----------



## pwrshift (Aug 17, 2007)

Here's a beachfront resort - with a wow factor for sure - and right next door to my Marriott BeachPlace Towers. Same view for a LOT more money.  Check out the floorplans.

Brian

http://www.exclusiveresorts.com/#FTLauderdale_FL


----------



## Kagehitokiri (Aug 17, 2007)

condos...

there are plenty of beachfront condos. *HCC has them*. OTOH there are almost no beachfront TH/SFH. ER's first will be Anguilla i believe. forget what they got at the viceroy, just remember it was way under market. 

edit - actually scratch that, i seem to recall they are *not* beachfront. acquisition cost still way under market though.


----------



## Steamboat Bill (Aug 19, 2007)

You guys crack me up....

HCC average night cost is around $325

ER average night cost is around $1500

Thus, for 4x the price, I would expect (demand) much more.


----------



## Kagehitokiri (Aug 19, 2007)

huh?

my point was even ER does *not* have any beachfront homes. IMHO thats ridiculous for clubs in the $200K+ price range. 

but HCC doesnt either. while not AS ridiculous, considering their budget, they could STILL acquire them if they wanted to. 

again with ER you can be saving $5K+ per night at some properties. now OTOH charging $2500/night for additional nights does not impress me at all. i would say many of their properties are more around that nightly rate ~$3K ish. so charging that amount really isn't saving you that much money. and there are even a couple of properties that are around $1K or less. making them questionable for plan use let along additional nights. 

anyway, whats the most HCC will save you? (not including the unlimited space available although it is a great benefit) thats something i dont know and i figure you have an idea if not a specific example. im not interested in HCC personally, but that doesnt keep me from recognizing it works for a lot of people, and ive certainly recommended it to others.


----------



## pwrshift (Aug 19, 2007)

Like you find everywhere these days there are different levels of being 'rich'.  I don't think the people who can afford an ER membership are even looking at HCC, just like they wouldn't look at a Rolex watch when they can go off and buy these ones:

*Some of the most expensive watches* (source: a 2004 listing by Forbes) – all prices as in 2004


<LI class=MsoNormal>Chopard Super Ice Cube – Price: 1,130, 620. It has 66 carats of diamonds with 1897 brilliants! <LI class=MsoNormal>Blancpain – Price approx 1 million $ <LI class=MsoNormal>Minute Repeater from Vacheron Constantin (Swiss) – Price approx 340,000 $ <LI class=MsoNormal>Minute Repeater with Tourbillon, Audemars Piguet (Swiss) – Price approx 297,500 $ <LI class=MsoNormal>Hommage from Roger Dubuis (Swiss) - $ 291,700 <LI class=MsoNormal>Magistral Tourbillon from Girard-Perregaux (Swiss) - $ 280,000 <LI class=MsoNormal>5437PT from Breguet (Swiss) – 275,000 $ <LI class=MsoNormal>10 Day Tourbillon from Patek Philippe - $ 240,000 <LI class=MsoNormal>Parmigiani Bugatti Type 370 – Parmigiani Fleurier (Swiss) – 200,000 USD 
Grande Complication – IWC (Swiss) 180,000 – 280,000 US$
If their DC didn't have a beachfront, these people would probably just go and buy the beach.  

Brian


----------



## Kagehitokiri (Aug 19, 2007)

the difference between ~$50K and ~$200K is not that great.

there are at least 2 ER members on here.


----------



## pwrshift (Aug 19, 2007)

But $459,000 is even more.  Sign up now ... see how great a difference it is!   

Brian

http://www.exclusiveresorts.com/#Membership_Plans


----------



## Steamboat Bill (Aug 19, 2007)

Kagehitokiri said:


> the difference between ~$50K and ~$200K is not that great.



I strongly disagree with that statement.

I can afford ER and seriously looked into joining them, but joined HCC instead as I felt that I got better "value" and did not want my kids to "expect" to vacation in $3-4m homes.

We already have some "attitude issues" from our kids simply from peer pressure living in a gated community in Boca Raton, elite private school, expensive clothes, things, etc. Several of their classmates ride in Bentleys, private planes, yachts, etc.

A $150k difference in buy-in price = $7,500 per year @ 5%

Plus the ongoing annual dues for clubs like ER add another $5k per week above what HCC charges.

Yes, ER has "much better" accomidations than HCC....but I am very happy slumming it in a $1m property.


----------



## Kagehitokiri (Aug 19, 2007)

pwrshift said:
			
		

> My own observation of many DC's is that they are not 'on' the beach, not 'on' the ski hill, etc., UNLESS you pay the $400,000 membership fees.
> 
> Who wants to be just 'near' the beach and not 'on' the beach especially if it costs you $300+ a night in fees.
> 
> ...



IMHO these comments do not represent the facts, and i was simply attempting to clarify by posting the facts as i understand them earlier in this thread. 

(although it seems that many people, including myself, feel that the property / location choices made by ALL clubs is sometimes questionable)

steamboat bill, im sorry if youre misunderstanding me, i have tried to be clear that i have no interest in suggesting any club is "better" than any other, as that is completely dependent on the prospective member and how they will use their membership.


----------



## Bourne (Aug 19, 2007)

Steamboat Bill said:


> Yes, ER has "much better" accomodations than HCC....but I am very happy slumming it in a $1m property.



 

Speaking of HCC, I sent a request via the website a few minutes back. 

Got a reply within minutes from Chris. Point I am trying to make is that it is 11:55pm on sunday night in Denver.


----------

