# Points inflation....Desert Blue



## ronparise (Nov 12, 2014)




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## Pietin (Nov 14, 2014)

Thanks Ron,

That is right up there with New York and Sundara in the Dells.


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## Fern Modena (Nov 14, 2014)

Are they kidding? And it is in a crappy, semi-industrial area...

Fern


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## vacationhopeful (Nov 14, 2014)

You have to book inside the 60 day window & be VIP Platinum using the discounts and upgrades AND still not be happy with the costs.

Definitely, points inflation.


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## Vacationfuntips (Nov 14, 2014)

http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=218856&highlight=desert+blue

I AGREE!

Cynthia T.


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## am1 (Nov 14, 2014)

If people are buying there they may not care about the amount of points to book there.  More importantly what are the mfs?


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## bnoble (Nov 14, 2014)

This isn't exactly news.  The two DC resorts are another good example: Alexandria costs fewer points, but is easily in a better location than National Harbor.


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## massvacationer (Nov 15, 2014)

Desert Blue cost 50% more points than Grand Desert.

That's a big step-up. 

 I don't really think Las Vegas is a location where costs are really high.  It's not like New York or San Francisco, where I can understand the high points values. 

I wonder whether it will offer a more upscale experience or something. Seems like the points values are disconnected and out of line.


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## Ron2 (Nov 15, 2014)

If Desert Blue was on the Vegas Strip then possibly the high points could be justified but its not, so Grand Desert will still be the best choice for Wyndham owners going to Vegas. Due to its location, I doubt I would even reserve there during the discount period and I’d be very surprised if the resort is fully booked at the 60 day discount window. I really don’t understand why Wyndham is opening new resorts in areas that are already over-developed. Why not build or refurbish some resorts in Virginia Beach, Ocean City MD, or even on the New England coast? The population and demand is certainly there.


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## vacationhopeful (Nov 15, 2014)

Ron2 said:


> ..... I really don’t understand why Wyndham is opening new resorts in areas that are already over-developed. Why not build or refurbish some resorts in Virginia Beach, Ocean City MD, or even on the New England coast? The population and demand is certainly there.



Perhaps the decision makers in the Sales (and where most of upper management rose out of) LOVE Vegas. It is their lifestyle, comfort level and background for WHERE and HOW they love to vacation. You think they have ever even considered driving thru the 3 places you mentioned?


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## am1 (Nov 15, 2014)

Ron2 said:


> If Desert Blue was on the Vegas Strip then possibly the high points could be justified but its not, so Grand Desert will still be the best choice for Wyndham owners going to Vegas. Due to its location, I doubt I would even reserve there during the discount period and I’d be very surprised if the resort is fully booked at the 60 day discount window. I really don’t understand why Wyndham is opening new resorts in areas that are already over-developed. Why not build or refurbish some resorts in Virginia Beach, Ocean City MD, or even on the New England coast? The population and demand is certainly there.



Las Vegas is where people buy timeshares.  That is what matters.


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## Vacationfuntips (Nov 15, 2014)

Ron2 said:


> If Desert Blue was on the Vegas Strip then possibly the high points could be justified but its not, so Grand Desert will still be the best choice for Wyndham owners going to Vegas. Due to its location, I doubt I would even reserve there during the discount period and I’d be very surprised if the resort is fully booked at the 60 day discount window. I really don’t understand why Wyndham is opening new resorts in areas that are already over-developed. Why not build or refurbish some resorts in Virginia Beach, Ocean City MD, or even on the New England coast? The population and demand is certainly there.




I couldn't agree more!  I would love for there to be a resort in Ocean City MD, Rehoboth Beach, Bethany Beach, Virginia Beach etc...

Currently, there are no Wyndham timeshare resorts for me in those places on the beach.  Love the beach!

Cynthia T.


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## jjmanthei05 (Nov 18, 2014)

I think the true reason for the point inflation is it gives more points for sales to sell at lower maintenance fees. The higher the point totals the less per thousand they have to charge so this will be the new Canterbury or PCB. 

Jason


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## pacodemountainside (Nov 19, 2014)

Ron2 said:


> If Desert Blue was on the Vegas Strip then possibly the high points could be justified but its not, so Grand Desert will still be the best choice for Wyndham owners going to Vegas. Due to its location, I doubt I would even reserve there during the discount period and I’d be very surprised if the resort is fully booked at the 60 day discount window. I really don’t understand why Wyndham is opening new resorts in areas that are already over-developed. Why not build or refurbish some resorts in Virginia Beach, Ocean City MD, or even on the New England coast? The population and demand is certainly there.



Desert Blue was started  about  8 years ago  and moth balled when  things crashed.

It is too expensive to put a TS on strip as they cannot  afford  land  if available  and  be in casino.

Although Seagull  claimed PH was only TS on strip there was actually about  100 foot  walk  way separating  and TS  did not have strip address.


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## CO skier (Nov 19, 2014)

jjmanthei05 said:


> I think the true reason for the point inflation is it gives more points for sales to sell at lower maintenance fees. The higher the point totals the less per thousand they have to charge so this will be the new Canterbury or PCB.
> 
> Jason



Would it not make more sense to roll Desert Blue into Club Wyndham Access from the outset and sell it as that with the multi-resort ARP feature rather than deeded at Desert Blue?

Why create Club Wyndham Access if they do not intend to sell new, run-of-the-mill resorts such as Desert Blue exclusively as CWA?

ARP at Desert Blue will be meaningless because at those points costs and that sad location it will always be Deserted Blue.


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## Ron2 (Nov 20, 2014)

CO skier said:


> Would it not make more sense to roll Desert Blue into Club Wyndham Access from the outset and sell it as that with the multi-resort ARP feature rather than deeded at Desert Blue?
> 
> Why create Club Wyndham Access if they do not intend to sell new, run-of-the-mill resorts such as Desert Blue exclusively as CWA?
> 
> ARP at Desert Blue will be meaningless because at those points costs and that sad location it will always be Deserted Blue.



As a Club Wyndham Access owner, I certainly would be opposed to putting that "white elephant" totally under CWA.


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## uscav8r (Nov 22, 2014)

Ron2 said:


> As a Club Wyndham Access owner, I certainly would be opposed to putting that "white elephant" totally under CWA.



Why do you say that?

On the plus side, it would likely offset high-mf resorts in CWA. are you saying the downside will be more CWA points/owners chasing all the cheaper CWA inventory?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## Bigrob (Nov 22, 2014)

uscav8r said:


> Why do you say that?
> 
> On the plus side, it would likely offset high-mf resorts in CWA. are you saying the downside will be more CWA points/owners chasing all the cheaper CWA inventory?
> 
> ...



I would guess that would be the main concern. At least in theory, if CWA only adds "crappy" inventory the associated ARP has less value. More CWA owners  and CWA points chasing the same amount of "good" inventory.


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## Ron2 (Nov 23, 2014)

uscav8r said:


> Why do you say that?
> 
> On the plus side, it would likely offset high-mf resorts in CWA. are you saying the downside will be more CWA points/owners chasing all the cheaper CWA inventory?
> 
> ...



You are assuming maintenance fees will be low at Desert Blue. Does anyone actually know what the fees will be? One of the nice aspects of CWA is the spreading of risk and averaging maintenance fees. To put an entire resort under CWA, especially one that may be a hard sell, doesn't spread risk too well, at least not for us CWA owners. However, it wouldn't surprise me if Wyndham would do as you have suggested. After all CWA reduces the risk for Wyndham and the HOAs since the deeds are held by the CWA trust and not individual owners.
As for creating more competition for CWA owners at preferred locations, it may be a small problem for some but not so much for those of us who reserve early. CWA is growing and I believe eventually will be the primary Wyndham timeshare product. I would just prefer that CWA would focus on adding prime high demand properties. Desert Blue may eventually become one of those high demand properties but it doesn't sound promising. As I stated earlier, Wyndham should add resorts on the eastern seashore in Virginia, Maryland, Delaware, an New England. They have to know how much demand there is just looking at Myrtle Beach and seeing the number of guests coming from the northeast.


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## Sandy VDH (Nov 23, 2014)

Assuming that MFs are going to be roughly the same as Grand Desert, as it is similar conditions/market, but you need so many more points for the equivalent sized unit.  One would have to assume, like Canterbury that it leads to a significantly lower MF for 1K of points.  Assume about 33 to 50% lower MFs as an inverse to the 50% higher point value.   So 3 to 4 $ MF per 1K.  Some of the lowest in the system.  

It would not offset your having to purchase from wyndham, but resales, when they do finally arrive on the market, will be snapped up by savvy owners if they are not initially put in CWA from the get go.


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## ronparise (Nov 23, 2014)

In conversations Ive had with Mark Gray (CWA board president) I was told that they work hard at balancing the inventory so that mf increases can be kept as low as possible.  ie for every high mf   week that goes in they look for a low mf week to balance it.  I believe him because CWA mf, has gone up very little since it began. 

So assuming Desert Blue has a low mf rate, I think that they will dump Deseret Blue points into CWA a little at a time to offset the high mf converted fixed weeks that are forced upon the trust by foreclosures.


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## Sandy VDH (Nov 23, 2014)

just curious Ron, you changed your avatar?  It that you in 60s, or just the "most interesting guy in the world" from the beer ads?


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## ronparise (Nov 23, 2014)

Sandy VDH said:


> just curious Ron, you changed your avatar?  It that you in 60s, or just the "most interesting guy in the world" from the beer ads?



That would be me... I was back in Annapolis for a party (some would call it a funeral) to celebrate an old friends life.  His wife had set out some old photo albums and I found this one in there.  Heres another, this from the 70's was taken at their wedding.  

Im amazed.. I havent changed a bit in the last 40-45 years at least thats the same guy I see in the mirror


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## am1 (Nov 23, 2014)

Is there a higher management fee to be made if the resorts need a lot of points to book it?


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## ronparise (Nov 23, 2014)

am1 said:


> Is there a higher management fee to be made if the resorts need a lot of points to book it?



Every owner pays their fair share of the properties expenses including maintenance, taxes, insurance, replacement reserves and of course the management fee. 

Divide the total expenses by the total number of points,  and you get mf/point (its usually expressed as dollars/1000 points)

I believe that the management fee is a percentage of the budget (10% to 15% is typical). the number of points has nothing to do with it. 

however at $220 per 1000 points (what Wyndham sells this stuff for.) they do better when there are a lot of points assigned to a resort. not to mention the 18% interest they get from folks that finance their purchase.


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## am1 (Nov 23, 2014)

10% - 15% of the budget is a lot more at a high point resort then a lower point resort.  If the points are double I doubt the mfs are half.  But I doubt the people care too much as the mfs are lower.


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## ronparise (Nov 23, 2014)

am1 said:


> 10% - 15% of the budget is a lot more at a high point resort then a lower point resort.  If the points are double I doubt the mfs are half.  But I doubt the people care too much as the mfs are lower.



the number of points has nothing to do with the resorts expenses. .   and although the mf rate is lower..mf  expressed in dollars isnt.

but if you insist on some numbers

national harbor fees   $3.63/1000 points 
2bedroom = 250000 point per week
Mf for 1 week = $907

Palm Aire fees  $5.59/1000 points
2 bedroom = 175000 points
mf for 1 week = $978


The number of points required at National Harbor is significantly higher than at Palm Aire. and yet mf in dollars is just slightly less. if we assume mf (in dollars not rate) flows from the budget and   that the management fee is a percentage of the budget then we have to conclude that  Wyndham is probably getting paid the same fee per 2 bedroom unit. 

What point inflation does is that it makes 
 more money for Wyndham when they sell a new resort. and it costs us more points when we choose to stay there, but I dont think it makes Wyndham any more in management fees.


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## am1 (Nov 23, 2014)

I still think its easier to hide a higher management fee in a high point resort.  The number of points allow the resort to collect more mfs when the points table is inflated but the price per thousand still looks good.  Increase in mfs is lower per 1000 but easily higher per unit.  

A high point resort has the ability to bring in more money and spend more.


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