# Thinking of buying HGVC - advice needed



## meamo (May 18, 2015)

I'm considering buying a HGVC property and have a few lingering questions I was hoping everyone could help me out with:

1)  Platinum or Gold Season?  I have young children and will be spending the next decade or so limited to vacationing while the children are on school breaks.  I'm primarily interested in spring break (which tracks Easter in this part of the country) at one of the three Orlando HGVC resorts.  In your experience, will the inventory still be there at nine months that I can reliably get a spring break holiday most years? Also, will a Gold contract give me enough points to reserve a high demand week?  Or, should I really only be considering Platinum weeks?

2)  Borrowing points?  If I start off with an every other year contract, can I borrow against the future year although it's actually two years distant?

3)  Disney.  After perusing some of the threads in this group, it seems people have been pretty successful trading into DVC.  Does the Hilton RCI membership confer some ability to evade Disney's Florida block?  Or are these owners just trading using non-Orlando HGVC properties?  Should I be looking at one of the non-Orlando resorts?  Are the maintenance fees pretty constant across the board?  Or do some resorts give more bang for the buck?

Thank you all for the feedback!


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## PassionForTravel (May 18, 2015)

#1 - Can't speak to. I've never checked Orlando since kids are to old and grand kids aren't old enough. But I suspect that it won't be a problem.

#2 - No, this is the situation I'm in. If I would have know this I would have bought a EY 4800 rather than an EOY 7000. The problem I run into all the time is that I'm say 100 points short of being able to make a reservation or I have points left over because I can't borrow from the next year. The only thing you can do is rescue borrow every other year. i.e rescue your 2015 points into 2016 and then make a 2016 reservation using your rescued points plus borrowed 2017 points. The rescue will incur a fee.

#3 - With HGVC you don't have an individual RCI account tied to a specific location, you have a corporate RCI account that knows nothing about where you actually own. Just that you have ??? points. Vegas ratio is better than Orlando but the buy in price is usually higher. If you have a lot of money to spend up front I think lowest MF per point ratio is Kingsland 14400.

Ian


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## RichardL (May 18, 2015)

First off, before buying anywhere, its best to rent in the season you want to travel in and also try different TS Groups.  You will get first hand experience and may find for example HGVC Orlando is not as nice as Marriott Orlando, or Orlando is nice but you soon really want to travel to Kauai and of course Marriott is on Kauai but no HGVC.  Because of this problem I have bought both HGVC and Marriott and don't forget about Westin.  Again, this causes me to think about the virtues of renting, it avoids very costly mistakes such as owning where you no longer wish to travel, and loosing a lot because the resale is rarely profitable.


5,000 vs 7,000 eoy.  This is in part an economic issue, how much more are you paying for 7,000.  Next, if a two bedroom during Spring Break is 7,000 points, what good is 5,000.  

As to borrowing points from EOY, I am not so sure you can.  Personally, I don't seek to own EOY simply because I like to travel each year and prefer more points rather than less.


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## meamo (May 19, 2015)

The RCI corporate account thing seems a little confusing.  I currently own one week and have a RCI account.  I won't be able to log into that RCI account, see my Hilton property, set up ongoing searches, make trades, etc.?  Will I need to maintain my existing account in addition to whatever HGVC does?


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## Jason245 (May 19, 2015)

Read this a minimum of 3 times
http://tug2.net/timeshare_advice/hilton-grand-vacation-club-timeshare-information.html

Then go to http://www.hgvclubprogram.com/

And Read everything you can. Specifically click on resorts and look at point costs and then get a copy of their calander so you can line up dates with weeks. 

IMHO, if there is a specific week you want every year, buy that specific week. RCI almost always has last call available at some resort in Orlando and HGVC is almost always renting units. Orlando is over built. 

It sounds like you want DVC, and if that is what you want, buy it. While RCI may have availability at DVC resorts, it might not have availability in the resorts you want, or the times you want. There are no sure things in this world, and I would not count on a RCI exchange into DVC for a week you want to go, I would however expect a week to be available to someone with a flexible schedule.


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## PassionForTravel (May 19, 2015)

Correct your current RCI account will not show you your HGVC unit. For HGVC RCI reservations you first log in to HGVC then go through menus to access the RCI account. You can make exchanges, start OGS, etc from there.

You will need to keep your current RCI account if you still want RCI access for your current TS.

Ian


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## itradehilton (May 19, 2015)

We own in Vegas we first bought HGVC we got 7000 points as we new we would need 2bdrs as our boys outgrew the sofa bed. As a teacher I can only travel during school vacations. In the last 10 years we have not had a problem getting a HGVC resort in Orlando. 

As soon as you get your school calendar or 9 months out just book your HGVC room. If you want DVC then set up an ongoing search and as the RCI points window opens ( check sighting board) look daily on RCI for rooms. We have been able to stay AT DVC in both June and July 3 times.


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## meamo (May 19, 2015)

Thank you all for the feedback.  That FAQ is a godsend (I read it over a couple times before I dared post)!  I want a specific week, unfortunately that specific week is different every year (Easter).  While I don't have an issue planning ahead and setting up appropriate ongoing searches via RCI, the TPU requirements for such a week are high - 40+ for a one bedroom which my kids will soon outgrow; 50+ for a two bedroom.  Unfortunately, I just don't have that kind of trading power on a year-to-year basis.  I was toying with the idea of doing something like a floating week at a Sheraton property but even that doesn't seem to assure me of getting the week I want when I'm so narrowly restricted.  That's why the Hilton system appeals to me.  A sort-of-floating-week-sort-of-points system, if what I gleaned from the FAQ was accurate.  I don't necessarily want DVC.  IMO, the price premium for their properties isn't justified when there's so many surrounding properties that are pretty much equal in terms of quality and amenities.  That being said, I know there will be family vacations in my not-too-distant future that will be all about the pilgrimage to the Mouse.  While I don't envision myself attempting to trade into DVC very often, I don't know that I want it off the table entirely in the form of a regional block.

Is there somewhere that I'm able to see point costs for the various HGVC resorts within the system?


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## PigsDad (May 19, 2015)

If you can plan 9 months out, you will never have an issue getting an Easter week at one of the HGVC properties in Orlando using your HGVC points.  So if that is what you are really needing, I would say the easiest would be to buy the number of points you think you will need (4800 for a 1BR or 7000 for a 2BR).  It would not matter where those points come from; just get the best deal you can.  Look into Las Vegas (lowest MFs usually).

Then, if you want to try and trade into DVC occasionally, you can certainly give it a shot using your HGVC points.  BTW, there is NO regional block for trading into DVC with HGVC points, so it doesn't matter where your HGVC ownership is.

Kurt


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## SmithOp (May 19, 2015)

The second link Jason provided will take you to the point values, bottom right in each resort.  Basically 4800 for 1 br, 7000 2 br.  Varies up or down based on season and location, some newer locations have higher point costs in Hawaii.

http://www.hgvclubprogram.com/resort/seaworld-orlando-florida/


Sent from my iPad using the strange new version of Tapatalk


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## Jason245 (May 19, 2015)

http://www.hgvclubprogram.com/

Click on resort collection
Find the resort you want and click on the "points values"

It will give you the table.

For example: 

HGVC seaworld runs from 1100 points for a studio during Silver weeks to 9600 points a week for a 3 bedroom plus during Platinum weeks. 

One "unwritten" trick is  to try and RCI into platinum weeks because they are at or slightly below the points cost of Gold weeks (but there are the RCI fees). 

e.g. a 2BR plat costs 7k HGVC points direct or 4800 HGVC RCI points. 


On the buy side, there are many trains of thought. Some people prefer to make a large cash outlay for the lowest MF/point ratio. Others prefer to pay less and get more. 

For example: many people on this board recommend getting a 7k point EY package for ~$7k from a Vegas Property. 

Personally I bought two EOY(one even, one odd) 1BR plat packagages from the Bay Club. Total cost closing included was ~$70 + account set up and enrollment fees with HGVC.  My MF are around $3-400 more/year, but my 4800 point packages netted a "savings" profit in year one and it will take upwards of 10 years before that $3-400 additional MF = what I would have paid for a Vegas or Florida property.  Also, if it becomes worthless my out of pocket liquidation cost and sunk cost is very low. 

You need to do your own math and figure out what is best for you. Remember it is a lot less difficult to add a points package then it is to sell one.


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## brp (May 19, 2015)

meamo said:


> I don't necessarily want DVC.  IMO, the price premium for their properties isn't justified when there's so many surrounding properties that are pretty much equal in terms of quality and amenities.



Well, at the risk of sounding like a DCV shill (and we own DCV in addition to HGVC), there are distinct differences to being on Disney property versus surrounding properties in terms of access, feel, theming, etc. If Disney is something you see doing reasonably often, go for DVC. There's also a thriving rental community for DVC and folks that do all the work for you (unlike HGVC, it seems).

But you do have to want to go there on a regular basis. We own two DCV properties (Beach Club and Boardwalk) and we go 3 times per year. Oh, and we don't have kids 

Cheers.


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## presley (May 19, 2015)

3.) If you mostly want to stay at DVC, just buy there and at the specific resort that you want. If you prefer the gamble of trading, you can certainly plan to trade in , but there is no reason to buy such an expensive system like Hilton to trade in when you can just as easily trade in with Worldmark or Wyndham.

1.) If you want to buy Hilton to stay in a Hilton, then you should have no problem booking at 9 months and should be able to get a contract anywhere. 

2.) If you plan to travel every year, buy an annual contract. I started with an EOY to try out the system and when I found that I was going to use it often, I needed to add on right away.


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## Talent312 (May 19, 2015)

Many folks never darken the door of their home resort.
Home Week bookings are clunky -- exact size, season, check-in day, current-year points.
Club (9-month) bookings are very flexible -- 3N mins (2N for "last minute"), nearly hotel-like.

What I like about HGVC's tie-in with RCI:
- No need for separate account (or membership fee).
- Access to both points + weeks inventory... and no worries about TPU's.
- No deposits... Confirm a booking, pay w-points (incl. future year points).
.


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## brp (May 19, 2015)

Talent312 said:


> Home Week bookings are clunky -- exact size, season, check-in day, current-year points.
> Club (9-month) bookings are very flexible -- 3N mins (2N for "last minute"), nearly hotel-like.



I definitely agree with the second point. I've never booked a Home Week, but the first part seems very accurate as well, from what I can tell. We bought W. 57th to use there, but we don't stay a week, so we can book after that, and go as low as 1 night. We also have Flamingo for use, primarily, in Hawaii, and the Open bookings are great for that.

Cheers.


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## meamo (May 19, 2015)

With regards to the RCI component - am I understanding correctly that I'd be able to initiate ongoing searches _without_ plunking 4800 (or whatever) HGVC points into the system?  And if it hits, I pay?  Am I still able to request 2 years in advance?  And pay a lower price in terms of points than if I'd reserved via the system I'm buying into?  Why would I ever trade within HGVC?  We've talked a lot about Florida, but how is the availability of the other resorts, particularly Myrtle Beach and Hawaii?


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## Jason245 (May 19, 2015)

Yes. But rci has less hgvc availability than the internal availability.  Also,  rci reservations cost more real dollars.


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## SmithOp (May 19, 2015)

RCI searches with the HGVC portal account are limited by the 9 month club season for HGVC, so you may only catch a cancellation.  HGVC dumps the bulk deposits a year in advance and they get picked quickly. You can only search non HGVC two years out.


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## PassionForTravel (May 20, 2015)

To start an OGS you would only pay the search fee. The points don't get deducted until it hits.

As Dave mentioned any HGVC property in RCI cannot be viewed until 9 months out. So the only things left by that point are Vegas and Orlando. I use HGVC to book HGVC resorts  using the club and Worldmark to book HGVC resorts through RCI. Even without the lock trading into HGVC with WM is cheaper than HGVC. So what usually happens with us is that I'll pick up a week at an HGVC unit through RCI using WM and then I'll add 3+ days to it using my HGVC points.


Ian


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## GregT (May 20, 2015)

To the OP,

A couple of your threads have leaned towards using RCI for trading -- if you are buying a trader, I would look at other systems too, primarily Worldmark.  This has its own network of properties, and also trades extremely well in both RCI and II.

If I was going to buy an HGVC, I would start with a 1BR Platinum at one of the Orlando or Vegas properties (for lower MFs), and then build from there.  That's what I did -- started with a 1BR Orlando Platinum, really liked HGVC's system and properties, bought another 1BR Orlando Platinum, really liked HHV in particular, bought an HHV EOY, continued to love HHV, and bought a 2BR Vegas Platinum.   The 1BRs are cheap enough that they are a great foothold in the system, and you can decide from there if/how you want to expand.

Best,

Greg


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## SmithOp (May 20, 2015)

Its possible to create an OGS with the HGVC account and not pay the exchange fee until it hits, just click continue through the billing section.  I created one yesterday for next May at Bay Club. Even though its restricted by the 9 month rule, I have time to see if I can get one before using my HGVC points directly.  Since Bay Club is an affiliate it has HGVC bulk deposits as well as owner deposits of non-enrolled weeks.


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## pryu (May 23, 2015)

I have a Platinum 7000 pts at Seaworld Orlando. I love it!

I'd go with Platinum over Gold if you want a week during high seasons. You're paying probably the same amount in yearly fees, except you get 2000 less points if you buy a Gold. And I'll cost you 7000pts for high season.

And yes, you can burrow 2 years out.

And I have never looked for DVS, but I've been told that it is possible for you to get DVS properties even if you own an Orlando property.

Good luck and enjoy


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## meamo (May 23, 2015)

Thanks, Greg.  I've been leaning towards RCI for my trading needs simply because I'm already a member and it's what I know.  I have no real understanding of how II or SFX (seems like HGVC trades fairly well in there) actually work therefore they're Strange.  And Scary!  Plus my current timeshare doesn't trade in II,so there would be that issue to deal with.

I've taken a very cursory look at Worldmark  but was a bit leery when I saw that all the home resorts are in the Western half of the USA.  I'm in NY, so the large majority of my vacationing will be on the Eastern seaboard.


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## Tkjohns1 (Jun 2, 2015)

*Need Advice - Have 8 Days to Cancel*

You guys know this HGVC business better than I do and I need your advice.  Here is what I just did on Sunday in Kona at the Kings property being built:

1.  Bought the Elite package with 14400 points for $80k....Call me absolutely stupid and I will cancel within the 10 day period.  Also got 1.2 million HHonors points or another 45K Elite points
2.  We travel at least 30 days per year around the world and need a big package but not at that price. Mostly travel SE Asia...Thailand, China, Italy, Spain
3.  The more I am reading about the aftermarket deals, it appears I get something close for half the price or even better.

All and any advice including websites and emails and phone numbers is appreciated.  I have 8 days.  Thanks in advance.


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## presley (Jun 2, 2015)

Tkjohns1 said:


> You guys know this HGVC business better than I do and I need your advice.  Here is what I just did on Sunday in Kona at the Kings property being built:
> 
> 1.  Bought the Elite package with 14400 points for $80k....Call me absolutely stupid and I will cancel within the 10 day period.  Also got 1.2 million HHonors points or another 45K Elite points
> 2.  We travel at least 30 days per year around the world and need a big package but not at that price. Mostly travel SE Asia...Thailand, China, Italy, Spain
> ...



You can buy resale for tens of thousands of dollars less, however, you don't get the 1.2 million honors points or the 45K Bonus points. Those have some value, but not nearly what you pay when you buy retail like that. 

14,400 points won't allow you to travel for 30 days per year in those locations. You really should cancel this contract and then spend many weeks or months researching all the options and see if timesharing is even a good choice for you. Once that is determined, you can compare the timeshare systems.

check resale pricing here:  http://www.sellingtimeshares.net/category/listings/hilton/


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## tschwa2 (Jun 3, 2015)

My guess is that if you stay in category 6 or above your 14,400 points will get you less than 10 nights in a hotel per year so once you burn through the bonus points you will have nothing that fits your travel needs.  Buying a timeshare to stay in hotels does not work out and that is pretty much for all the major timeshare systems.  Generally you pay as much if not more in MF's than it would cost you for those hotel nights.  In the off chance that you end up ahead, it might be by $100 or $200 per year.  Certainly not worth the buy in cost.  The conversion rate rarely goes up but MF's go up every year and the same hotel that was category 6 this year may end up being category 8 a few years down the line requiring more points.  So lets say you could squeeze out 10 nights stay for $2000 in MF.  In 10 years, your MF may be $3200 but you can only get 6 nights in the same hotel.


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## alwysonvac (Jun 3, 2015)

*Time is on your side*



Tkjohns1 said:


> You guys know this HGVC business better than I do and I need your advice.  Here is what I just did on Sunday in Kona at the Kings property being built:
> 
> 1.  Bought the Elite package with 14400 points for $80k....Call me absolutely stupid and I will cancel within the 10 day period.  Also got 1.2 million HHonors points or another 45K Elite points
> 2.  We travel at least 30 days per year around the world and need a big package but not at that price. Mostly travel SE Asia...Thailand, China, Italy, Spain
> ...



Rescind and Research.  
Take time to make a decision that's best for you and your family after you have all of the facts. Hilton is not the only game in town. 

HGVC has an affiliate agreement with Anantara Vacation that gives HGVC members access to their resorts in New Zealand, Thailand and Indonesia. I don't know how much is actually available to members. We don't have online reservation access. You may want to start a different thread if you're interested in availability at these locations. Here's an article on the partnership that started in 2010 and later expanded access to all HGVC members (not just Elite members) - http://www.asiatraveltips.com/news12/261-AnantaraVacation.shtml

HGVC also has an affiliate agreement with the Borgo alle Vigne fractional property. It's a small property located in Italy (close to the village of Peccioli). Here's an article about their partnership - http://www.bestinternational.co.uk/...-in-tuscany-with-hilton-grand-vacations-club/
There are discussions about the Italy property on TUG. Here's one recent trip report - http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=225524

There's currently a hotel offer on the member website for Hilton hotels in China, Japan, South Korea, Thailand and Indonesia) - https://www.hgvclub.com/hotels/. However I don't know if these rates are any better than the normal HGVC hotel conversion rates.
_In general HGVC point requirements for hotel stays change constantly therefore it's never a good reason to purposely buy into HGVC._

Here's what I wrote on another thread



alwysonvac said:


> *Whatever you decide, don't put all of your future vacation dollars into timesharing.*
> _This will give you the flexibility in the future to choose the best way to visit your desired destinations. There might not be a timeshare at the location that you want to visit or if there is a timeshare it may be very hard to get an exchange. You may also want to visit a destination in an entirely different way via a cruise, hotel/resort stay, special discounted travel package, tour company, beach house rental, etc._
> 
> *Also, don't base your purchase decision simply on the Hilton name or what you might have heard from a Hilton timeshare presentation.*
> ...


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## 1Kflyerguy (Jun 3, 2015)

Glad you found TUG and plan to rescind.  HGVC is a great program, and we have been very happy with our ownership.  That said, before you buy into any timeshare program, you need to make sure the program is a good fit for your travel style.  I would be cautious about buying into any program if the partner locations were my main vacation goals... I don't think i would buy HGVC if my main interests were Club Intrawest or Anantara..

We love the Kings Land, and own there ourselves..  

As others have mentioned, Elite status comes with a few perks, but most are of limited value..  The 14K point package your purchased from the developer is widely available resale for considerably less than half the number you quoted...


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## brp (Jun 3, 2015)

1Kflyerguy said:


> Glad you found TUG and plan to rescind.  HGVC is a great program, and we have been very happy with our ownership.  That said, before you buy into any timeshare program, you need to make sure the program is a good fit for your travel style.  I would be cautious about buying into any program if the partner locations were my main vacation goals... I don't think i would buy HGVC if my main interests were Club Intrawest or Anantara..



Well, we just bought two Flamingo contracts and 10,000 points (could have done that better) with an intent to use them primarily at Bay Club, which is an affiliate...so I'm hoping that this works out well going forward. 

Cheers.


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## PassionForTravel (Jun 3, 2015)

Bay Club is no problem it's kind of a step child. I think what 1Kflyerguy was talking about was Club Intrawest, the Florida Gulf properties, i.e. ones you can't check availability online.

Ian


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## brp (Jun 3, 2015)

PassionForTravel said:


> Bay Club is no problem it's kind of a step child. I think what 1Kflyerguy was talking about was Club Intrawest, the Florida Gulf properties, i.e. ones you can't check availability online.
> 
> Ian



Excellent point. Thanks. I was viewing all "affiliates" and "partners" as the same...but they're really not.

Cheers.


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## 1Kflyerguy (Jun 3, 2015)

PassionForTravel said:


> Bay Club is no problem it's kind of a step child. I think what 1Kflyerguy was talking about was Club Intrawest, the Florida Gulf properties, i.e. ones you can't check availability online.
> 
> Ian



That is correct.. I would not worry about Bay Club.. Some affiliates are much more integrated than others.


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## Tkjohns1 (Jun 9, 2015)

*Thanks Presley.  Most of these TS are a scam.*

I appreciate the advice and had already rescinded after you sent your note.  You are correct.  Retail TS from HGVC is the biggest scam ever invented by predators.  
In addition, the site that you sent me, selling timeshares, is also a scam when you compare the prices on the open market from individuals.  Many of these timeshares are give aways from people who do not want to continue to pay the MF's for the rest of their life.  The prices on this site are a joke compared to the private market.  
In addition, I talked to another TS Realtor, and her prices were 30% less that selling timeshares, Inc.  
I have never seen such price variation for the same points and same properties in all my life.  This is a dangerous scam business!!!  I want no part of it.


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## Tkjohns1 (Jun 9, 2015)

alwysonvac said:


> Rescind and Research.
> Take time to make a decision that's best for you and your family after you have all of the facts. Hilton is not the only game in town.
> 
> HGVC has an affiliate agreement with Anantara Vacation that gives HGVC members access to their resorts in New Zealand, Thailand and Indonesia. I don't know how much is actually available to members. We don't have online reservation access. You may want to start a different thread if you're interested in availability at these locations. Here's an article on the partnership that started in 2010 and later expanded access to all HGVC members (not just Elite members) - http://www.asiatraveltips.com/news12/261-AnantaraVacation.shtml
> ...


Thanks Alwysonvac for your in-depth reply.  There are many more CONS than PROS in this TS business.  And I got conned and scammed.  So I have been looking around for "real Value".  Bad news Alwysonvac, there ain't no value anywhere!!  I travel the world several times per year...30-60 days vacation, 100 days work related to the places I mentioned in the original post.  I can beat every price and every value during Platinum season.  I really do not see how TS can fit anyone's needs.  This is a SCAM.  The Value is not there!!  All the best.


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## alwysonvac (Jun 10, 2015)

Tkjohns1 said:


> Thanks Alwysonvac for your in-depth reply.  There are many more CONS than PROS in this TS business.  And I got conned and scammed.  So I have been looking around for "real Value".  Bad news Alwysonvac, there ain't no value anywhere!!  I travel the world several times per year...30-60 days vacation, 100 days work related to the places I mentioned in the original post.  I can beat every price and every value during Platinum season.  I really do not see how TS can fit anyone's needs.  This is a SCAM.  The Value is not there!!  All the best.



Well I'm glad you rescinded and did a little research to determine whether HGVC is best for your travel needs.

If the HGVC sales person sold you on hotel stays then I agree it's more expensive to use HGVC points to stay at hotels compared to cash and never a good reason to buy a timeshare.

The primary purpose for buying a timeshare should be for timeshare stays.
With HGVC, using points for hotel reservations or Club Partner Perks won’t necessarily save you money. It simple allows you to apply some of your HGVC Points towards the cost.

Also, you'll find most folks on this board don't view timeshares as an investment. Some will find value and others refer to it as a luxury item.

Some folks prefer to pay a little more to stay in a suite/condo with a full kitchen, washer/dryer, living room and one or more bedrooms/bathrooms. They want more space than a small hotel room for their family.

Some folks find more value with stays at higher priced destinations such as Oahu  vs Orlando or Las Vegas.

In general the timeshare industry is littered with landmines (from the Sales folks who sell timeshares to the companies who pretend to help folks get rid of their timeshares). So you have to be careful.

Keep in mind, with the resale market, owners drive the prices and some folks are not ready to accept the true cost of their timeshare. Think about it... if you bought your timeshare for $80K and someone told you that is worth less than 75% in the resale market would you readily accept that answer? That's what you're seeing with variation in resale prices being offered. Also, some sellers are more reputable than others.


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## Talent312 (Jun 10, 2015)

alwysonvac said:


> The primary purpose for buying a timeshare should be for timeshare stays. With HGVC, using points for hotel reservations or Club Partner Perks won’t necessarily save you money...



Agreed. Folks who are primarily on-the-go hotel travellers should not buy a TS from a hotel-system with the idea that it'll save $$ on hotel stays. It's actually a poor choice. 

As for TS's generally: If I not taken a TS off the back of a relative, I'm not sure I would've ever been interested. But having done so, I find having a little "home away from home" to be a helpful option -- not exclusively -- but regularly enuff to enjoy it. It's really just a good toy to have around... a high-maintenance toy, but a nice one, nonetheless.
.


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## 1Kflyerguy (Jun 11, 2015)

alwysonvac said:


> If the HGVC sales person sold you on hotel stays then I agree it's more expensive to use HGVC points to stay at hotels compared to cash and never a good reason to buy a timeshare.
> 
> The primary purpose for buying a timeshare should be for timeshare stays.
> With HGVC, using points for hotel reservations or Club Partner Perks won’t necessarily save you money. It simple allows you to apply some of your HGVC Points towards the cost.



I have never understood why the HGVC salespeople spend so much time touting the ability to convert your club points to HHonors so you can book reward hotel stays.  At the last owners update I attended i think they spend at least half of the presentation talking about their concept of converting and banking my points so i can travel when i retire...

Its seems like conversation ratio might have been OK when the program was first started, but as the cost of HHonors rewards goes up, the ratio has remain fixed..  personally i would only convert to HHonors as a last resort..


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## brp (Jun 11, 2015)

Tkjohns1 said:


> I really do not see how TS can fit anyone's needs.  This is a SCAM.  The Value is not there!!  All the best.



Because, while you can beat the prices in most cases, you often have to settle for inferior accommodations. For example, we bought W. 57th. We can stay there, based on MFs, for less than a *comparable* accommodation elsewhere in NYC. I expect to get all, or most, of what we paid back, so I don't factor that in. Even if I did, I'd come out no worse than even.

We also own DVC. We can stay on property, at the places we want to stay, for quite a bit less than one can rent the room from Disney. Sure, I could stay at the Motel 6 outside for less than that, but that's not where I want to stay.

This is why a TS works for many. Not a scam, not a con. Just doesn't work for you. Best to know that.

Cheers.


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## Jason245 (Jun 12, 2015)

Tkjohns1 said:


> This is a SCAM.  The Value is not there!!  All the best.



There is value, you just need to know how to find it. 

For example, I bought my HGVC Plat 1BR (4800 pts) package for $1. 

We stayed in the HGVC South beach 1br for 3 nights,  (comparable hotels are at least $400/night plus tax) and had a kitchen with a W/D on property. We were able to make breakfast and even had 1 dinner on site, were across from the beach, did laundry (traveling with kids = needing to do laundry even for a 3 night stay) and all in all had a great long weekend getaway experience. 

We are going to be doing something similar for labor day in Marco Island (similar rooms would probably rent for close to $250-300/night plus tax, hotel accomodations at the marriott are also in that range), except we are going to have a 2BR unit and having some other family come along. 

Discounting any other trips and taxes my 4800 points will have gotten me $1200 in value from southbeach and $750 in value from marco ( $1950). My total MF (all the MF I pay for all my pts) + other fees to book those resorts is ~$1500, and I still have points left over for one more trip later in the year (probably to orlando). 

The math works and the value is there assuming you know what you are doing, and can work the system, and your needs are more than just a place to crash and hang your hat. When I was single and/or had no "tax deductions", TS made no financial sense because it didn't fit my needs.  If things change and in the future they don't make sense, I will dump my purchase for what I bought it for.


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## CalGalTraveler (Jun 12, 2015)

Tkjohns1 said:


> ... This is a dangerous scam business!!!  I want no part of it.



Indeed, the industry must clean up its act and there are too many "used car salesmen" giving the industry a bad name. The lucrative potential of selling the same piece of real estate 52 times at a premium and the built-in annuity stream that covers all the maintenance and capital costs for life has attracted much greed. 

I do not believe HGVC is a scam - a for-profit business yes - but not a scam. Their resorts tend to be well maintained, the units are clean and modern, I have been able to secure reservations at several locations, real people answer the phone in a timely manner, and I am treated well by staff when I visit the resorts. If I thought for a moment it was a scam I would be headed for the exit.

It is not perfect (nothing is). It takes time to know the rules on how to extract value - but as Jason 245 said: the value is there if you know how to find it.


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## frank808 (Jun 12, 2015)

Jason don't forget the annual club fees and each exchange fee in your pricing.


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## Jason245 (Jun 12, 2015)

frank808 said:


> Jason don't forget the annual club fees and each exchange fee in your pricing.


Mf 1150, club fee 140, reservation fees 150.. equals around 1500. .

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N910A using Tapatalk


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## frank808 (Jun 12, 2015)

Looked at my 2br invoice instead of the 1br invoice.


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## taterhed (Jun 13, 2015)

Tkjohns1 said:


> I appreciate the advice and had already rescinded after you sent your note.  You are correct.  Retail TS from HGVC is the biggest scam ever invented by predators.
> In addition, the site that you sent me, selling timeshares, is also a scam when you compare the prices on the open market from individuals.  Many of these timeshares are give aways from people who do not want to continue to pay the MF's for the rest of their life.  The prices on this site are a joke compared to the private market.
> In addition, I talked to another TS Realtor, and her prices were 30% less that selling timeshares, Inc.
> I have never seen such price variation for the same points and same properties in all my life.  This is a dangerous scam business!!!  I want no part of it.



Reading your post....a few comments.  

Yes there are cheaper ways to buy timeshares: TUG, Redweek, Ebay, Craigslist, Brokers, Realtors, Developer.

You can also get 'scammed' by any of the people on this list.  Some with more legal methods than others.

That being said:  Sellingtimeshares.net is a respected TUG broker and has personally offered me excellent service, advice, pricing and ideas.  *THEY ARE NOT SCAM ARTISTS.*

If you think you can buy a Marriott or HGVC etc for $1 from realtor XX, I strongly encourage you to try it.  If you think you can buy (any timeshare with value) from a private individual for $1, give it a shot.
Just because realtor XX says they can 'beat that price' doesn't mean you'll get the timeshare cheaper.  Research it. Resale timeshares, Marriott, HGVC and others included, represent a good value and a great choice for some folks.  Not for everyone, that's for sure.  If it's not for you, great.  Just don't bash everyone else on your way out the door.

Before you imply that respected TUG brokers and agents etc... are 'A Scam ' maybe you should get some advice from people who have actually conducted business--buying or selling, not just looking--before you are quick to point fingers.

I'm off my soapbox.  Just don't like guest members slandering fellow Tuggers.

just my 2c


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## Talent312 (Jun 14, 2015)

taterhed said:


> Before you imply that respected TUG brokers and agents etc... are 'A Scam' maybe you should get some advice from people who have actually conducted business--buying or selling, not just looking--before you are quick to point fingers.



Tkjohns1 misuses the term "scam." The term scam generally refers to a practice of relieving folks of their $$ with no intent to deliver anything close to what they were sold. If you simply pony-up the sticker price for something w/o regard for its value or what it goes for "down the street," as long as the item is delivered to you, you have not been scammed, but simply naive and foolish. 

_... now, if only my DW could learn that._ :ignore:
.


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