# New to TS resale / ebay [Wyndham]



## tmck2015 (Jan 23, 2015)

This is my first time posting.. also I have never purchases resale TS.

We currently own 154k Wyndham points based on Kona, Hawaii.
We were originally fairfield. We've owned for over 12 years but have only recently started taking real advantage of it. [Disney etc]

I was at an 'update' recently and they tried to sell us into the ACCESS program.

60+ resorts, lower maintenance etc etc.

It wasn't that bad a deal actually but I know that resale if quite a bit less expensive so I opted to look into this first.

I have read a bunch of discussions but still want some clarification.

1) Looking at ebay there are a number of sales that look interesting but I wanted some feedback to see if I evaluated them correctly.

A few that that are live now that I was looking at are below.

I found this nice summary in another post and was curious if it was still accurate: "You don't need to know every resorts mf to make a deal. Just know $4 is great; $5 is good; $5.50 is about average $6 is high"


- applying this I got -

SMOKEY MOUNTAIN:
308,000
1574/year
= $5.11 / thousand (Reasonable)

ACCESS:
64,000
557/year
= $8.7 (Very High)

Williamsburg
154,000
68
= 5.29

Bonnet:
329k
1723
= 5.24

Nashville:
49k
312
= 6.36

413,000 ANNUAL POINTS - WYNDHAM PANAMA CITY BEACH TIMESHARE FOR SALE (BOGO) -87,000 ANNUAL POINTS - WYNDHAM SMOKY MOUNTAINS
Total of 500k points:
Works out to $4.37


Am I heading in the right direction with this?
I was just basing it on a few places I wouldn't mind vacationing..
Also wanted to get my points up.. 400k is suppose to be VIP silver etc but I don't know if that applies to purchases in this way.. when they span multiple contracts and include resale.

currently I was watching the followingin order of preference)

Bonnet:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/291342904551
timeshare_resales

Smoky Mountains
http://www.ebay.com/itm/291335585288
timeshare_resales

Panama City: 
http://www.ebay.com/itm/321620289733
acobbfan

ACCESS:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/161564005117
This is from qualityvacations and they don't seem to have decent ratings. As well the price / 1000 is VERY high at over $8

2) I couldn't find anything on the seller "timeshare_resales"; and they didn't have a lot of activity in the past year so I was a bit concerned.

They look legit to me, but being new I am a bit gun-shy.


3) Anything else I should be considering before purchasing? Additional (reoccurring) fees? 

4) Specifically regarding BONNET CREEK.  We love the place and have been going there the past few years.  I was considering this a good first purchase for us since we would definitely US it. But in other posts there was some very adamant threads about buying in Florida being a bad idea.  Should I look elsewhere?

5) Wyndham ACCESS: is this something you can get resale. The one on Ebay now seem very pricey and I'm not sure if its something I should pursue.

Thanks for any feedback and HELLO!


Troy


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## csxjohn (Jan 23, 2015)

Welcome to TUG.

Many peeps here tell you not to buy in Orlando but I don't follow that advice.  Buy what works for you.

The trading company I use gives me 2 exchanges for each Orlando week I give them, so much for it being over built and not a good buy.

CWA has a couple advantages and the ones I remember are ARP at all the resorts in the trust and MFs are spread out over all the resorts and the effect of a special assessment will be minimal to individual owners.

Check to see if the first seller you mention accepts credit cards, I avoid sellers who do not.

I see a few recent red marks have brought the score down for the second but by checking things out first many problems can be avoided.  Just remember, before you sign a purchase agreement, you can cancel a TS purchase on eBay.  Of course don't send money without a PA.


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## Myxdvz (Jan 23, 2015)

I bought my Club Wyndham Access points via ebay at a reasonable price so they can be bought on ebay.

MF for access is not $8... It's under $6.  This year it's $5.45/K including the program fee.  IMO, 64K is too low to buy. If you're going to buy it should be in multiples of 77K.  Or at least what you would need for the reservations you would need.


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## Bigrob (Jan 23, 2015)

Let me help you with a few other points of clarification. Anything you purchase resale will not count towards your VIP status. So whether you buy 154K points or 2M, it won't get you to VIP.

Second, timing is important. There were a number of larger contracts available in the first quarter of last year at good prices. By the summer they were harder to find, and they are very hard to find now. So you may want to be a little patient.

Regarding where to buy - for the most part, points are points unless there is somewhere you really like to go and you want to go at a peak time (like Myrtle Beach mid-summer or New Orleans for Mardi Gras). If that's the case, you need ARP at that resort. Many of the resorts are part of CWA now, but only a portion - in some cases, a small portion - of their inventory may be in CWA, so the ARP (advanced reservation priority) rights of CWA may not be strong enough to get you what you want. That would be less of an issue at a larger resort like Bonnet Creek than a smaller resort with little CWA availability such as La Belle Maison. 

Maintenance fees adjust every year, so it may not necessarily be vital for you to chase after the very lowest maintenance fees - those resorts come at a price premium. At this point many of those resorts are commanding a penny a point or more. A moderate resort like Smoky Mountains or Grand Desert might be a good balance - not as high upfront cost and reasonable MF's with a track record of stable MF's that are not going to sky rocket. Certain locations are more susceptible to Special Assessments due to their location (beach resorts) or age (legacy resorts). 

The various ebay sellers have varying degrees of performance related to their closing process, documentation, due diligence prior to sale, etc. Some are definitely better than others. As a first time resale buyer, you probably want a reseller with a strong reputation. There are several.

The Panama City Beach contract will probably end close to a penny a point which I think is a little high. I agree with the other remark - no sense buying a 64K package unless it's a special situation (you want a small contract you can add adult children to, for example). Multiples of 77K (in total in your account) is probably go advice, but if you're a little over that's fine. You just don't want to be a little under. For example, you don't want to end up with a total of 302K points, since at 308K you'd get another reservation transaction.

The advice given previously is still good, but the scale has slide upwards about .25 each... $4.25 is great, $5.25 is good, $5.75 is average, $6.25 is high. You also have to be careful when looking at converted weeks. Some of them have great MFs, others have terrible - it depends upon what kind of week was converted. So don't assume any Kingsgate is going to have good MFs. Some do - but others are pretty bad. That's true at a number of legacy resorts with converted fixed weeks. The other consideration you need to understand is that for a converted fixed week, you only have ARP for the UNDERLYNG WEEK that was converted. You can't take your converted fixed week and use if for any reservation at that resort; only for the week it was converted from. So if you buy an offseason converted week, you would get hit with the double whammy - high MF's with no useful ARP.

Good luck.


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## ronparise (Jan 23, 2015)

tmck2015 said:


> I found this nice summary in another post and was curious if it was still accurate: "You don't need to know every resorts mf to make a deal. Just know $4 is great; $5 is good; $5.50 is about average $6 is high"



If it wasnt me that posted "Just know $4 is great; $5 is good; $5.50 is about average $6 is high"
Its certainly something that I might have said.  And as Eric said its old advice...scale it up a little. 

Regarding pricing... Im in the market for larger contracts and I cant find them, and when I do the bidding is going higher than I like even for the high mf stuff. So if this is something that you want to do...my advice today is "do it soon".   Prices for the good stuff are going up.  I recently paid another tugger more than a penny a point for something I wanted.


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## vacationhopeful (Jan 23, 2015)

ronparise said:


> ...Regarding pricing... Im in the market for larger contracts and I cant find them, and when I do the bidding is going higher than I like even for the high mf stuff. So if this is something that you want to do...my advice today is "do it soon".   Prices for the good stuff are going up.  I recently *paid another tugger more than a penny a point for something I wanted.*



Oh, dippy do dog! I just am loving that BOLD and underlined section, Ron. To make 9 FOLD on my million point contract. 

Of course, the original buyer LOST 150 times to what I paid for it.


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## ronparise (Jan 23, 2015)

vacationhopeful said:


> Oh, dippy do dog! I just am loving that BOLD and underlined section, Ron. To make 9 FOLD on my million point contract.
> 
> Of course, the original buyer LOST 150 times to what I paid for it.



Linda you should also know I am paying just closing costs on another contract (I didnt want that one as much)  It all averages out


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## ricknhsv (Jan 23, 2015)

Here is a current Club Wyndham Access 210,000 points that closes in 6 days:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/210-000-POI...365?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item20f50d232d

The same type of contract sold for $1296.00 last week:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/141534780786?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT

It might give you an idea of what they are selling for currently. 

Rick


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## Bigrob (Jan 23, 2015)

ricknhsv said:


> Here is a current Club Wyndham Access 210,000 points that closes in 6 days:
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/210-000-POI...365?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item20f50d232d
> 
> The same type of contract sold for $1296.00 last week:
> ...



I would warn a new resale buyer away from buying from that particular seller. There's a chance things could go well; but it's definitely not something you can count on. I had a contract that took almost a year to transfer in, and several transfers with that seller (and their former ebay user ID Luky987) that failed altogether. Can't count on the appropriate level of due diligence having been completed before the TS is offered up for sale. Two of the units I bought had either been foreclosed on or traded in and were therefore not even eligible to sell. Yet my money was held captive for several months and it took many (unanswered) calls and finally threats to get it straightened out. Others transferred in with past due maintenance fees or fewer points than listed in the contract.

In short - don't do it.


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## scootr5 (Jan 23, 2015)

ricknhsv said:


> Here is a current Club Wyndham Access 210,000 points that closes in 6 days:
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/210-000-POI...365?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item20f50d232d
> 
> The same type of contract sold for $1296.00 last week:
> ...



I wouldn't bid on on of their auctions. It's likely the same contract.


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## csxjohn (Jan 24, 2015)

Bigrob said:


> I would warn a new resale buyer away from buying from that particular seller. There's a chance things could go well; but it's definitely not something you can count on. I had a contract that took almost a year to transfer in, and several transfers with that seller (and their former ebay user ID Luky987) that failed altogether. Can't count on the appropriate level of due diligence having been completed before the TS is offered up for sale. Two of the units I bought had either been foreclosed on or traded in and were therefore not even eligible to sell. Yet my money was held captive for several months and it took many (unanswered) calls and finally threats to get it straightened out. Others transferred in with past due maintenance fees or fewer points than listed in the contract.
> 
> In short - don't do it.





ricknhsv said:


> Here is a current Club Wyndham Access 210,000 points that closes in 6 days:
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/210-000-POI...365?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item20f50d232d
> 
> The same type of contract sold for $1296.00 last week:
> ...



Those are my thoughts also, with the rep that seller has it would not surprise me if it is the same contract with the first sale, if there really was a sale, falling through.


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## rubbub (Jan 24, 2015)

How could they be the same contract when the anniversary dates are different months and they have different MFs?  Can that be obfuscated in some way?


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## scootr5 (Jan 24, 2015)

rubbub said:


> How could they be the same contract when the anniversary dates are different months and they have different MFs?  Can that be obfuscated in some way?



The maintenance fees should be the same for an equal number of points at the same resort. One of the anniversary dates could be a typo, or they don't even really have one to sell.


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## ronparise (Jan 24, 2015)

scootr5 said:


> The maintenance fees should be the same for an equal number of points at the same resort. One of the anniversary dates could be a typo, or they don't even really have one to sell.



mf rates are often different at the same resort.  For example I have a 105000 point contract where the mf is higher than a 126000 point contract at the same property... different HOA'a and different seasons for the underlying fixed weeks  is what does it


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## scootr5 (Jan 24, 2015)

ronparise said:


> mf rates are often different at the same resort.  For example I have a 105000 point contract where the mf is higher than a 126000 point contract at the same property... different HOA'a and different seasons for the underlying fixed weeks  is what does it



You're right, of course. What I meant was "at that resort" as I believe Grand Desert only has one HOA and no converted fixed weeks.


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## ronparise (Jan 24, 2015)

scootr5 said:


> You're right, of course. What I meant was "at that resort" as I believe Grand Desert only has one HOA and no converted fixed weeks.



grand desert has 2 hoa's but I think mf is very very close there


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## vacationhopeful (Jan 24, 2015)

Tower 4 - across the street from the main complex (where check in is and where the sales department hides). Tower 4 does have it own pool and public area which could become a lobby with check in.


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## Roger830 (Jan 24, 2015)

For the two Club Access ebay listings, if you subtract the $8 snail mail billing fee from the ebay sold listings, 106 - 8 = 98, then the mf is the same for both auctions, which it should be for all club access contracts. 

The sold listing was a pretty good deal with half of a years mf prepaid because of the July use year, but we don't know how Wyndham will adjust the use year for the new owner.


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## Bigrob (Jan 24, 2015)

Roger830 said:


> For the two Club Access ebay listings, if you subtract the $8 snail mail billing fee from the ebay sold listings, 106 - 8 = 98, then the mf is the same for both auctions, which it should be for all club access contracts.
> 
> The sold listing was a pretty good deal with half of a years mf prepaid because of the July use year, but we don't know how Wyndham will adjust the use year for the new owner.



It MIGHT be a good deal for someone, especially an experienced buyer, if they get what they're supposed to get. But I'd still stand by my advice that this is probably not the right seller to work with for one's first resale purchase.

You're right on the other point... all CWAs should have the same fee unless one is subject to the CWP minimum and/or has the $8/month manual payment fee.


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## Roger830 (Jan 24, 2015)

Bigrob said:


> It MIGHT be a good deal for someone, especially an experienced buyer, if they get what they're supposed to get. But I'd still stand by my advice that this is probably not the right seller to work with for one's first resale purchase.



At almost $1500 with the fees for starting bid is a lot to risk. 

It does look like somehow the seller is related to luky987, who abruptly disappeared from ebay with no feedback after his last auction date.

I can't complain about luky987. My Ocean Palms deal was very smooth at $78.77. No fees and 15 months mf prepaid. Dec 27 on the balcony in Pompano we toasted luky987 for the free week. We're still in Florida and that was our warmest week.


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## ricknhsv (Jan 24, 2015)

Bigrob said:


> I would warn a new resale buyer away from buying from that particular seller. There's a chance things could go well; but it's definitely not something you can count on. I had a contract that took almost a year to transfer in, and several transfers with that seller (and their former ebay user ID Luky987) that failed altogether. Can't count on the appropriate level of due diligence having been completed before the TS is offered up for sale. Two of the units I bought had either been foreclosed on or traded in and were therefore not even eligible to sell. Yet my money was held captive for several months and it took many (unanswered) calls and finally threats to get it straightened out. Others transferred in with past due maintenance fees or fewer points than listed in the contract.
> 
> In short - don't do it.



Thanks for the advice. I didn't buy from them, I was just checking the prices on eBay after Wyndham tried to sell me Club Wyndham Access at full price. 

I bought my Wyndham Majestic Sun on eBay years ago (not with this seller) and was lucky and had no problems. 

Rick


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## happyhopian (Jan 25, 2015)

These guys are great. I have purchased exclusively from them since 2010. Each sales rep has their own ebay id to list but this is a larger volume one. Legacy vacation. 

http://www.ebay.com/sch/acobbfan/m....=0&_trksid=m194&ssPageName=STRK:MEFSRCHX:SRCH

Let me tell you why. I had a horrible transaction with them. The closing company sold my unit out from under them. It was a 750k contract I bought for less than $500. I was pissed. They offered to give me my money back when they learned what had happened but I would out the deal and still pissed. On their own the offered to find me the same or greater number of points for the same amount of money. It took about a year and three contracts but I got 945k points for the same price and only paid one closing cost (eventhough there were three contracts closed). 

My father once said about refrigerators, there will always be problems but buy the one you can get fixed easiest. There will always be problems in transactions but I would highly vouch for their character in getting those problems fixed. FYI since that time I have purchased six contracts.


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## Bigrob (Jan 26, 2015)

Bigrob said:


> The Panama City Beach contract will probably end close to a penny a point which I think is a little high.



And now that the auction is over, we can see it went even higher than that. My how the market has changed. 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/321620289733?_trksid=p2060778.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT

ended at $5450 for a 413K point contract (with an 87K Smokies contract thrown in). I can remember when we were shocked last year that a 1.8M contract went for about 12K at PCB. Looks like a bargain now.


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## rubbub (Jan 30, 2015)

This one seems way, way high.  I missing something?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/271755837537


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## Roger830 (Jan 30, 2015)

rubbub said:


> This one seems way, way high.  I missing something?
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/271755837537



One minute earlier he sold another contract for over $10,000.

He does have best offer option on his listings, but I'm suspicious. He's new seller with one feedback as a buyer.


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## vacationhopeful (Jan 30, 2015)

Plus the one feedback was where he was the buyer --- Marriott week for under $900.


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## Roger830 (Feb 1, 2015)

rubbub said:


> This one seems way, way high.  I missing something?
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/271755837537



I see that this has been listed again as well as the Waikiki contract that sold for $10,200.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/630-000-ANN...194?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3f46326032


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