# Which would you chose?



## cindi (Aug 28, 2007)

So I am narrowing down my choices for Westin Maui. Still in negotiations, but so far this is about how it looks. 

One bedroom OV EOY for $10,000 

or

Two bedroom OV EOY for $16,000   That one is not a firm deal, but is being "discussed". 

Either of these good or bad prices in your opinions? 

Also, can you book any night as the starting night for stays in Westin? Or are they fixed nights, like regular timeshares?


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## Bill4728 (Aug 28, 2007)

The 2 bd unit.  It is always possible with your points to get a 1bd and use the rest of the points later. But if you need or want a 2bd and only have a 1bd you're out of luck. 

Good Luck with your quest.


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## Denise L (Aug 28, 2007)

cindi said:


> Also, can you book any night as the starting night for stays in Westin? Or are they fixed nights, like regular timeshares?



WKORV allows Fri, Sat or Sun check-ins only for the full week.

At 90 days out, you are allowed to use SOs to book less than 7 nights starting on any day.

That $16K in "discussion" is super low. For my sake (I own two EOYs, developer purchases), I hope it doesn't sell for that price!


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## LisaRex (Aug 28, 2007)

Depends on what you want. I certainly wouldn't buy more than I needed simply because I don't want to fiddle with trying to rent it out.  

If you'd use the 2 bdrm, either by taking friends, or splitting it so that you can get two weeks (1 week in the 1 bdrm side + 1 week in the studio side, either at WKORV or another SVN resort), then that one sounds like a better deal.  The only caveat is that WKORV studio side doesn't have a lanai.


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## vacationtime1 (Aug 28, 2007)

The MF's for the one bedroom are almost as high as for the two bedroom (about $1,200 v. $1,550, I think).  The mandatory SVN fee ($99) is the same.  The closing costs would be the same.

So the marginal cost of buying the two bedroom rather than the one bedroom would be the capital cost of $6,000 which translates to about $600 per use (using a 5% return; remember it is an EOY) plus about $350 of additional MF's.

For the extra $950 per use, I would buy the two bedroom in a heartbeat.


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## cindi (Aug 28, 2007)

vacationtime1 said:


> The MF's for the one bedroom are almost as high as for the two bedroom (about $1,200 v. $1,550, I think).  The mandatory SVN fee ($99) is the same.  The closing costs would be the same.
> 
> So the marginal cost of buying the two bedroom rather than the one bedroom would be the capital cost of $6,000 which translates to about $600 per use (using a 5% return; remember it is an EOY) plus about $350 of additional MF's.
> 
> For the extra $950 per use, I would buy the two bedroom in a heartbeat.



Well, when you put it that way.........lol


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## cindi (Aug 28, 2007)

Denise L said:


> WKORV allows Fri, Sat or Sun check-ins only for the full week.
> 
> At 90 days out, you are allowed to use SOs to book less than 7 nights starting on any day.
> 
> That $16K in "discussion" is super low. For my sake (I own two EOYs, developer purchases), I hope it doesn't sell for that price!



PLEASE tell me that Starwood doesn't have a ROFR??   

Among other reasons, that is one reason I chose Starwood to make an offer on!


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## DavidnRobin (Aug 28, 2007)

cindi said:


> PLEASE tell me that Starwood doesn't have a ROFR??
> 
> Among other reasons, that is one reason I chose Starwood to make an offer on!



They do have a ROFR - but it really has no impact on you other than if you get an incredibly great deal - SVO may exercise it, but it would really have to be a bargin (and a seller that had no clue of its value).  I don't understand why you would care about SVO having an ROFR as a reason to buy or not?

As to your question about the 1Bd vs. 2Bd LO at WKORV - it really depends whether or not you would want the studio-side - either to use or SVN exchange - that is a question that can only be answered by you.

If we were to buy a non-OF unit at WKORV - we would buy the 1Bd because we would not want the studio-side.  The OF studio does have a lanai - and it is roomier and better laid out, but only come as a 2Bd LO.

tbh - I think the prices you have stated (if they do not include the 1st MF and SVN fee) are  a bit too high - sorry.  I am not sure if EOY are more costly than EY, but 1Bd OV EYs have sold for ~$17K, and a bit less than $30K for the EY 2Bd LO OV.


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## califgal (Aug 28, 2007)

I don't think OV EOY for $16,000 is a great deal.  I've seen OV annual posted for sale for $30,000, so I would think EOY should be half that and that's asking price.

 I personally think that in a year or so  resale prices will be lower.As many have said before timeshares are a luxuary purchase. With homes sales slow   sub prime loans,  and people over extending themselves,I would think people would be selling their timeshares first for cash.  I don't mean to be negative, for people who are concerned with the value of their timeshares, but i'ts just my 2cents.


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## Denise L (Aug 28, 2007)

califgal said:


> I don't think OV EOY for $16,000 is a great deal.  I've seen OV annual posted for sale for $30,000, so I would think EOY should be half that and that's asking price.
> 
> I personally think that in a year or so  resale prices will be lower.As many have said before timeshares are a luxuary purchase. With homes sales slow   sub prime loans,  and people over extending themselves,I would think people would be selling their timeshares first for cash.  I don't mean to be negative, for people who are concerned with the value of their timeshares, but i'ts just my 2cents.



I'm pretty sure that a two bedroom OV EOY sold for close to $18K recently. I'd have to go back and check my emails. Anyhow, so that's why I think that $16K is a great deal.  I don't know if EOY resales always sell for 50% less than an EY. I thought that it varied, and often an EOY was viewed as worth a bit more than 50% of an EY because someone would not want an EY and would therefore pay more.

I would hope that owners (like those of us on TUG) would help to maintain resale prices by not selling out of desperation and waiting for a fair price. I've seen the odd super low price, but luckily for me, that hasn't been the norm.

WKORV is a wonderful resort and we are delighted to visit it each year.


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## DavidnRobin (Aug 28, 2007)

CA-gal is probably correct from a macro-economics perspective - I am not sure if Westin TS will be as affected since people caught in forclosure are likely in the bottom of the economic scale - but there certianly will be some trickle down.  Probably more related to the overal economy - they are still a lot of people out there with lots of luxury funds.  Time will tell.

Tuggers probably make up less than 1% of the WKORV owners (unfortunately for us, and fortunately for SVO) - us holding the cost up by not selling out will have little to no impact.  The prices will be what the market bears.

I have tracked Westin TSs for about 20 months now - on eBay and other locations - if someone paid $18K for an EOY 2Bd OV at WKORV, then they paid too much.  If I were looking - I would not pay over $15K, but since I am not - that is easy to say.


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## califgal (Aug 28, 2007)

David....
I'm going a off topic now, yes there's loads of people who have extra money to spend, but as reguards to the subprime loans, I don't think it's at all limited to bottom of the economic scale at all.  You too live in the SF bay area.  I'm thinking of communities in the. east bay( or anywhere around here really) with million dollar plus priced  new homes and the people who have to have it all right now who bought these homes and fancy cars and everything else along with the lifestyle.  
My intention is not to offend anyone. I'm pointing out an unfortunate reality.

Sorry to go off topic, but it still relates in reguards to prices.


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## DavidnRobin (Aug 29, 2007)

califgal said:


> David....
> I'm going a off topic now, yes there's loads of people who have extra money to spend, but as reguards to the subprime loans, I don't think it's at all limited to bottom of the economic scale at all.  You too live in the SF bay area.  I'm thinking of communities in the. east bay( or anywhere around here really) with million dollar plus priced  new homes and the people who have to have it all right now who bought these homes and fancy cars and everything else along with the lifestyle.
> My intention is not to offend anyone. I'm pointing out an unfortunate reality.
> 
> Sorry to go off topic, but it still relates in reguards to prices.



Off topic - on TUG? never!  

We really do not know anyone in this boat in the Bay Area.  Yet - I am sure there are - but whose house around here has/would depreciate enough after a 50% increase in value over a 4 year period - and another 50% increase since 97.  I do not doubt people got in over their heads (we survived the dot.bomb afterall) and if they did knowingly - then they only have themselves to blame (sorry to sound cruel, but I come from a generation of self-responsibility).

Regardless - We didn't buy our TSs to sell them or as a financial investment - we bought so we would have great vacations for years in places we love to visit - at resorts that we love to stay at.  Being over 50 - this became very important to us.  We could afford to buy w/ cash, and have no debt (except our mortgage) and are saving for retirement - and can't worry about what might be - only enjoying our lives.  I hope others that have bought TS costing 10s of thousands of $ (vs. the inexpensive ones) did the same.


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## Fredm (Aug 29, 2007)

*Too easy to say*



DavidnRobin said:


> CA-gal is probably correct from a macro-economics perspective - I am not sure if Westin TS will be as affected since people caught in forclosure are likely in the bottom of the economic scale - but there certianly will be some trickle down.  Probably more related to the overal economy - they are still a lot of people out there with lots of luxury funds.  Time will tell.
> 
> Tuggers probably make up less than 1% of the WKORV owners (unfortunately for us, and fortunately for SVO) - us holding the cost up by not selling out will have little to no impact.  The prices will be what the market bears.
> 
> I have tracked Westin TSs for about 20 months now - on eBay and other locations - if someone paid $18K for an EOY 2Bd OV at WKORV, then they paid too much.  If I were looking - I would not pay over $15K, but since I am not - that is easy to say.



The OP is seeking advice about the reasonable price for a specific timeshare.
I may be overly sensitive about the subject. If so, it is because I actually deal in this marketplace on a daily basis, for real. 

The "market" for what many here own is, in meaningful measure, made by perception. Not fact. Facts are extremely difficult to obtain. The negotiated variables in any secondary market sale make the true cost even more difficult to know. Yet, casual, offhanded comments made by some do directly influence the near term price a buyer may be willing to pay.(or not pay at all while they wait for prices to soften further). 

At the transaction level, price is mostly an academic issue to a broker.  Yet, I firmly believe that softening prices help no one, including the buyer.

The dialog so freely engaged in here serves neither the interests of the OP, nor the owners of the resort in question, IMHO.

DavidandRobin, "if someone paid $18K for an EOY 2Bd OV at WKORV, then they paid too much.  If I were looking - I would not pay over $15K, but since I am not - that is easy to say."

You are right about one thing. It is *far* too easy to say you would not pay over 15k. Is that your advice to the OP?

Califgirl: "I don't think OV EOY for $16,000 is a great deal. I've seen OV annual posted for sale for $30,000, so I would think EOY should be half that and that's asking price."

You don't think so? Well, as I said, facts are difficult to obtain. I have sold annual 2/2 OV as low as 27500, but more commonly 29000+. Bi-annuals, however, routinely sell at 60% of the annual price. That fairly prices an eoy at  17,100, even with an annual price of $28,500. 

The way I see it, in advising a prospective buyer about the fair market value of a timeshare, it is worthwhile to consider the implications of the comments made. For example: now armed with sage advice and learned opinion, the Op may conclude that they should wait until the price drops further.  In so doing, they may forgo the vacation they wish to own. Or, spend far more to take the vacation in the absence of the ownership, than what could be saved by waiting for the price to drop further. 
 Perhaps that is not the action the OP will take, or its consequences.  But, it seems to me that if you own the stuff, one should not be so quick to opine to the determent of price, when one is not stating fact, but enjoying the sound of their voice.
Unlike a disposable commodity, a purchase whenever made, at whatever price, will be a store of some value. If the "talk" on this board continues as it has, prices will be talked into a continuing soft drift. That helps no one including the buyer who waited for a better price. Prices only firm when there is a fear of loss by not acting. Talking timeshare prices down only contributes to the lack of urgency to buy. It is a self-fulfilling prophecy. (especially when the basis is void of real market data).
The fact of the matter is that the secondary market for WKORV is very thin, and always will be. This is not a marketplace with sufficient depth to normalize  itself. Again, I deal in the substance of this marketplace every day. The mere perception of a single buyer, no matter how ill-founded, will influence  demand in the short term. It does not take much at all for it to escalate into a drought on demand. Once that happens, sellers will more aggressively compete for buyers, and you can kiss your liquidate-able value good-by.

Forgive me for saying so, but the prices bantered about here sound like a fish story in reverse. Who will be the next person to share their "insight" to the market and impress everyone with how savvy they are?  Everyone can then thank them for contributing to tomorrow's paper loss.

I truly apologize for the blunt characterizations. They are not intended to be be personal. I have used examples here as cases in point. Again, I may be disproportionately sensitive to the subject. If so,  it is because I am disproportionately involved with the causes and effect of it all. My sincere intention is based in the overall health of the markets.

Fredm


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## stevens397 (Aug 29, 2007)

And Fred, my response is much shorter and simpler.

You're talking about a lifetime of vacations at a wonderful resort.  If you go ahead, most of the people sharing the resort with you will have paid much, much more than you as they probably bought from the developer.

That said, when you work out the numbers over whatever you consider the useful life, do you really think $1,000 or so makes that much of a difference?

I never understand the people who purchase and then go onto this board to ask if they got a great deal.  I always assume that some paid more and some paid less, but if I bought it, it clearly was at a price I was happy with.

Nuf said!


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## Denise L (Aug 29, 2007)

Fredm said:


> Forgive me for saying so, but the prices bantered about here sound like a fish story in reverse. Who will be the next person to share their "insight" to the market and impress everyone with how savvy they are?  Everyone can then thank them for contributing to tomorrow's paper loss.



Fred, thanks for saying what I have always felt! I totally agree with you  . 

I will add that with our $45K total purchase in 2003 and 2004, we received what we considered approximately $7K in incentives.  At that time, a net price of $38K was about the price of the first resale week we saw.  So we felt like we "broke even," yet had the security of buying our first timeshare from a reputable developer.

We have enjoyed four vacations at WKORV, which would have easily cost us $4K each (total $16K) if we had continued to rent on the island for our family of four.  Let's say that we paid approximately $5K in MFs for those weeks, so one might say that we "saved" $11K.  If we had to sell today, and we sold at a net price of $17K for each EOY, we'd have $34K, plus our "savings" of $11K, which equals $45K, our total developer purchase price  . Whatever the perceived value of the incentives (SPs, free nights, etc.), it would just be extra fun for us, the icing on the cake!

If we were to buy resale today at $29K for EY, we would have spent $16K on rentals for the past four years, which would equal $45K.  We would have been renting, with limited control over the reservation, and rental contracts and trust issues, etc.  For us, we would have ended up spending the same amount of money anyhow, and maybe not stayed in as nice a place.

If anyone buys WKORV resale today, I am happy for them, but we've had quite a few fantastic vacations already and that is the _real_ value to us.


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## LisaRex (Aug 29, 2007)

Cindi, If I were going to do OV, I'd probably look at WKORV-N because of the way the buildings are situated.  There will be an increase in price, because of the improved view, but if view is important to you, I think you'll be happier at the north facility.

As far as all this timeshare business goes, if I were looking at houses and walked into one that just wowed me for whatever reason (layout, neighborhood, view), I might be more willing to negotiate on the price.  After all, a house simply cannot be duplicated.  But at a timeshare community with floating units and each villa a cookie cutter copy of the other?  No.  That makes me decidedly LESS willing to negotiate.  

When I went into my negotiations, I looked at the "going" resale rates, which were very easy to find.  Then I discussed a price that we were willing to pay with my husband, keeping in mind that our #1 priority was view.  We came up with $50k.  I then started browsing condo resale websites and sending e-mail queries to OF owners.  Most units were listed at $60+.  Undeterred, my main 2 questions were: "1) Are you willing to negotiate on price? and 2) To clarify, the view is a Westin classified oceanFRONT villa?"**  I was quickly able to separate the owners who were firm on their price (and wished them luck) and those who weren't.  That got the ball rolling. 

Long story short, within 2 weeks, I'd found 2 owners who were willing to meet, or come very close to, the price I was willing to pay.   Within 4 weeks, I'd settled on this deal: EY OF $52k with 2008 MFs paid by seller.  We also used the former deal to negotiate a "matching" offer with the owner of an EOY OF owner for $25k, but we eventually settled on the EY unit.

Keep this in mind, Cindi.  There are literally dozens of units for sale at WKORV.  Set a price that you think is fair and that you're comfortable spending (even if the economy should turn) and be patient.  Would I walk away from a deal over $2-3k? Absolutely.  $2-3k would cover my family's air fare to Maui.  And there will be another owner listing tomorrow who might be willing to drop his price.  Bottom line, even if I could NEVER find an owner willing to accept my price, I'd be fine with it because there are dozens upon dozens of great units at WKORV (and elsewhere) available for rental**.  

That's my best advice, speaking as both an owner and a buyer.  

**Hint: Some owners are tricky and say things like, "We are offering on a villa at the fabulous oceanfront WKORV!!"  Yes, WKORV is oceanfront, but not every villa is OF. Ditto with the word "deluxe."  A quick check of the MFs will tell you if the unit is truly a Westin classified "deluxe" unit or the owner just calls it deluxe cause he thinks it's fabulous.) 

**Hint 2: If I were to rent, all prices being equal, I'd search out an elite owner in hopes that their status would grant me the best or upgraded view.


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## DavidnRobin (Aug 29, 2007)

Fredm said:


> DavidandRobin, "if someone paid $18K for an EOY 2Bd OV at WKORV, then they paid too much.  If I were looking - I would not pay over $15K, but since I am not - that is easy to say."
> 
> You are right about one thing. It is *far* too easy to say you would not pay over 15k. Is that your advice to the OP?


Well... Fred - since you asked me directly - my answer is *YES *.  

btw, I was only making a comment about certain situations in a few sentences - not a thesis - and not trying to over-generalize others situations.

However, people pay what they believe is a good deal for them (hopefully) - for a variety of reasons (some misguided unfortunately).  My point was that if we (David and Robin) were in the Market to buy a 2Bd OV WKORV - AND know what I know today - we would not pay over $28K - but in reality - we would not buy this unit at all - we would buy OF like we did.
(anyway - the 1Bd fits our vacation-style better)

I realize that you are in the business as a TS broker  - and in a better placed to judge the overall market (and other people opinions I guess...) - but I have been tracking WKORV (and Westins) on every reputable website (including yours) - and if someone was willing to be patient - then they could find this price.

In our case - we paid $5K too much for our OF Dlx unit, but that (in our situation) this was offset from the fact that this particular purchase had reserved Thanksgiving week - thus allowing us to get married during our stay and have some of our family join us.  That helped offset our overpayment - along with the deals we got for WKV, WSJ and even our SVO WPORV purchase (relatively) in our minds - all that matters in the long run.  But, if someone were to ask me, I would not pay over $50K for an OF now.

Anyone willing to pay >$50K for a TS is a different beast than many here on TUG who are looking for inexpensive TSs (as Syed from AV first told me - and I find that to be true) - and we are that beast - so I won't generalize you if you don't generalize us (e.g. "not stating fact, but enjoying the sound of their voice" is insulting... especially considering that we have no vested interest in WKORV prices, but you do...).  

Anyway... I feel very good about our purchases - and also very good about helping a few (maybe many) others save 10s of 1000s of $$$ - and even occasionally getting personal emails thanking me.  (as I have thanked others in our TS adventure)  TUG has allowed me to gain perpective on prices - and using this info has allowed us to make purchases that may not be the lowest, but definately in the bottom 10% - and I am happy with that (a dollar saved is a dollar earned).

PS - I agree w/ LisaRex if you are looking for OV, but after seeing some selected photos of WKORV-N - we are glad we bought OF at WKORV

PPS - very likely less than 1% of WKORV buyers (resale and Developer) ever find TUG (the math - though not precise is easy - # of units times # weeks and that leads to a boatload of units - even considering mutiple week owners - and then compare to the number readers on a typical WKORV thread - easily less than 1% - WHICH MEANS anything stated here has little impact on overall prices - only for those who are lucky enough to find TUG (like we did).  So... I stand by my recommendations - and they are not self-fullfilling - just my view of what I would pay if I were looking based on research.


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## duke (Aug 29, 2007)

The answer here depends on WHEN you want to stay.....

If during the summer or school holidays you must buy at WKORV.

However, if you want to stay at any other time it is very easy to trade into WKORV.

IF this is the case, you can do much better buy purchasing resale at a Voluntary resort (WMH, SMV) and requalifing with a low cost Mandatory developer EOY purchase (VV-key west).

You will end up with more StarOptions, StarPoints, and ELITE program.

AND, you will have lower maintenance fees!


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## glenn1000 (Aug 29, 2007)

vacationtime1 said:


> The MF's for the one bedroom are almost as high as for the two bedroom (about $1,200 v. $1,550, I think).  The mandatory SVN fee ($99) is the same.  The closing costs would be the same.
> 
> So the marginal cost of buying the two bedroom rather than the one bedroom would be the capital cost of $6,000 which translates to about $600 per use (using a 5% return; remember it is an EOY) plus about $350 of additional MF's.
> 
> For the extra $950 per use, I would buy the two bedroom in a heartbeat.



We own both a 1-bedroom and a 2-bedroom WKORV and I would agree with this advice. For a small extra cost you get the ability to have a second week if you split the unit or can bring up to four more people. On the other hand the 1-bedroom OV units are slightly larger "deluxe" units (compared to the 1-bedroom side of a 2-bedroom unit) and many (I think half) are located right next to the OF units. Still, if there was a choice I'd take the 2-bedroom.


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## Henry M. (Aug 29, 2007)

cindi said:


> One bedroom OV EOY for $10,000
> 
> or
> 
> Two bedroom OV EOY for $16,000   That one is not a firm deal, but is being "discussed".



I'd get the two bedroom because one week in Maui is never enough 

The two bedroom can be split into two separate consecutive stays so you are really buying two weeks - one in a 1 BR and one in a studio.

Alternatively, you can take more people on a one week trip and they'll love you forever. Finally, you could rent out one side while you use the other and use the proceeds to at least pay for the maintenance fee. In any case, the 2BR gives you quite a bit of flexibility.

I understand the arguments for buying elsewhere and trading in. However, in my case, I like to go in the summertime to get away from the Texas heat. That means going during high season and I don't like having to sit on pins and needles until I can confirm my reservation at a place other than my home resort. I don't want to risk getting a crummy room because all the good ones went to home resort owners using 98% of the rooms there. I also believe that if everything were to fall apart in the exchange program I want to own where I want to go. This is strictly a luxury and I wouldn't want to skimp on that.


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## grgs (Aug 29, 2007)

duke said:


> IF this is the case, you can do much better buy purchasing resale at a Voluntary resort (WMH, SMV) and requalifing with a low cost Mandatory developer EOY purchase (VV-key west).
> 
> You will end up with more StarOptions, StarPoints, and ELITE program.
> 
> AND, you will have lower maintenance fees!



Just be aware that starting with post #89 in this thread, it appears the requalification policy has changed, and a minimum of 20K must be spent in order to requal a unit:

http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=24046&page=4

Since the OP is looking to spend between 10-16K, it may not be a good idea to go the requal route in this case.

Also, I'm not sure that Starwood is still selling units in the Key West phase at VV.  

The mf fees are certainly not low at VV.  I believe they're only be a few hundred less than WKORV, on a 2 bedroom unit.  A few hundred is nothing to sneeze at, but while I think I could swallow $1500 for Hawaii, $1100 for Orlando would be hard to take.  The upfront costs would have to be significantly lower, and I think Starwood just killed that option with the 20K minimum.

Glorian


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## duke (Aug 29, 2007)

grgs said:


> Just be aware that starting with post #89 in this thread, it appears the requalification policy has changed, and a minimum of 20K must be spent in order to requal a unit:



Let's get serious here:

YOU NEED TO BE READY TO PURCHASE THE DEVELOPER UNIT TO "REALLY" GET A DEAL!

See posts by DavidnRobin.  You will see that what you are told when you inquire are not what you can get.

You have to be ready and able to pull the trigger.

There is no proof that the resale requal policy has changed.  

In fact, DavidnRobin were able to requl using EOY purchases.

I strongly recommend that the OP use this method.  It is detailed in the stickey.

All the best,
duke


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## grgs (Aug 29, 2007)

duke said:


> There is no proof that the resale requal policy has changed.



Starting last March, I have been in contact with a sales person at Starwood Direct discussing the possibility of requalifying a resale.  On July 10, he stated the following to me in an e-mail: 

"I do have to let you know that we recently received a policy change for retro’ing resale ownership.  The new policy requires a minimum new purchase of $20K for US mainland and Mexico and $40K for Hawaii and Caribbean in order to re-qualify a resale week."

I have no reason to doubt that the above is not true, although, I would really love to believe it's not.  If I was the only one who had been told this, I could understand doubting this; however, several others have reported this as well.



duke said:


> In fact, DavidnRobin were able to requl using EOY purchases.



They did this in March, before the new policy was developed.  *If anyone has done what they did since July, I would love to hear about it.*

I do think Starwood's requalification is something of a moving target.  And I would guess that if you're spending a good deal of money, they'd be willing to bend the rules.  However, I'm doubtful they'll bend the rules for smaller purchases.  See post #6 in this thread here:

http://tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=53842

I was quite surprised that they wouldn't bend the rules for a $200 price difference.  Again, if anyone has had a different experience since July, I would like to hear about it.

In any case, I would be cautious about buying a unit purely to requal.  Starwood can change their policy anytime.  If you buy with the idea that it may not work in the end then fine.

Glorian


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## LisaRex (Aug 29, 2007)

Starwood has watered down the elite program so significantly that I'm not sure why anyone would pursue requalification.  Aside from being able to convert to StarPoints, I don't see any benefit that would be worth paying thousands of dollars more to the developer.  Am I missing something here?


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## grgs (Aug 29, 2007)

LisaRex said:


> Starwood has watered down the elite program so significantly that I'm not sure why anyone would pursue requalification.  Aside from being able to convert to StarPoints, I don't see any benefit that would be worth paying thousands of dollars more to the developer.  Am I missing something here?



I agree that Starwood has made it much less desirable.  The ability to combine StarOptions is still very useful--especially if requalifying a unit with a smaller number of StarOptions (i.e. requalifying a unit worth 44,000 Options with a purchase of 37,000 Options, and thus being able to reserve a unit worth 81,000 Options).

Glorian


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## DavidnRobin (Aug 30, 2007)

LisaRex said:


> Starwood has watered down the elite program so significantly that I'm not sure why anyone would pursue requalification.  Aside from being able to convert to StarPoints, I don't see any benefit that would be worth paying thousands of dollars more to the developer.  Am I missing something here?



I agree - buy where you want to go (we did - even with the requal)


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## pointsjunkie (Aug 30, 2007)

duke said:


> The answer here depends on WHEN you want to stay.....
> 
> If during the summer or school holidays you must buy at WKORV.
> 
> ...



3- i am still requalifying my resale units,and when i am ready they will change the rules by then.


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## LisaRex (Aug 30, 2007)

grgs said:


> I agree that Starwood has made it much less desirable.  The ability to combine StarOptions is still very useful--especially if requalifying a unit with a smaller number of StarOptions (i.e. requalifying a unit worth 44,000 Options with a purchase of 37,000 Options, and thus being able to reserve a unit worth 81,000 Options).



Ah, I see.  Thanks.


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## duke (Aug 30, 2007)

grgs said:


> Starting last March, I have been in contact with a sales person at Starwood Direct discussing the possibility of requalifying a resale.




I would NEVER put any worth in Starwood DIRECT SALES.

If you want to requalify......

Go or call the Westin Mission Hills Sales Office or the Westin Kierland Sales Office.  That is where DavidnRobin and I got our BETTER deals.

Read the Sticky....You canNOT rely on the direct sales office.  You can get a straight deal at the resort offices.

BY the way, a VV-Key West (Mandatory) developer sale for EOY 2 b/r L/O Prime was offered at the sales office with 105,000 starpoint incentive at $14,000 and can be used to requalify at Voluntary (WMH, SMV, etc.) EY 2 b/r L/O Platinum season with 148,000 staroptions.  That will give you the Ability to 1) combine staroptions and 2) starpoints and 3) ELITE with a requal.

(You may also want to check out the EOY 2 b/r L/O at the Princeville Resort Sales Office.  This will be a great resort (see DavidnRobin comments).  They will also do a requal.)

Give them a call *when you are ready to make a deal* and see if you can make it happen.


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## cindi (Aug 30, 2007)

Thanks for all the different opinions, comments and suggestions. I have read and reread them all many times.

I am close to going ahead with the EOY 2 bedroom OV, but just need another gentle nudge............ 

Did I read somewhere in all of my reading that the one bedroom unit is actually larger and perhaps nicer in some way than the one bedroom lockout? 

And after giving it much thought, I have come to the conclusion that I really don't want to mess around with going cheaper somewhere else and jumping through all the hoops only to HOPE that I can get requalified.  

Also, comparing what you get for the MF in Orlando to what you get in Maui, I don't think there is any comparison that Maui is the better choice, at least for us. 

I also recall reading that the studio side doesn't have a balcony. Do any of the studios in the different tropical locations have one? Not that it is the end all of deals, but at times we may chose to get two weeks out of the lockout.


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## Henry M. (Aug 30, 2007)

There are a few 1BR units and they are a little larger than the ones attached to a studio, mainly because there is an entrance foyer. That area is normally shared with the studio and both the 1BR and the studio have a door that leads into it. In the standalone unit there is no door and this are is available to store some of your "stuff".


The OV studio at WKORV doesn't have a balcony. There's a sliding door and a rail, but no room to really step outside. The OF studio does have a balcony.

All the studios at WKORV-North do have a balcony.


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## Westin5Star (Aug 30, 2007)

cindi said:


> Do any of the studios in the different tropical locations have one? Not that it is the end all of deals, but at times we may chose to get two weeks out of the lockout.



WPORV also shows a balcony for the studio.  It looks pretty small with 2 chairs and a little table.  Good luck with your decision.


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## LisaRex (Aug 30, 2007)

If I read your post correctly, Cindi, you'll be buying from the developer? In that case I have two pieces of advice:

a) Don't lose out on the very reasonably priced 5 day package to check out the property.  Part of the premium you're paying from the developer goes towards Explorer packages, etc. and you might as well take advantage of the deeply discounted rate before you bite the bullet.  And as a prospective buyer, you might even get a nice upgrade!  

If you need a referral from an owner, there's lots of folks here who would be happy to refer you (including me).

b) For the love of all that is holy, do NOT tell them that you're ready to sign. Waffle, waffle, waffle and let them sweeten the pot by adding StarPoints.  StarPoints to SVO is like water to Poseidon, but very valuable to us, so be sure you come away with tons of StarPoints.  (And you might send out a quick query asking how many points people were able to get.) 

c) I can't believe anyone would come to TUG before buying and then buy from the developer.  We have failed!


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