# Starwood Vacation Network - Resales



## Robert D (Jan 18, 2007)

I have always heard that if you buy a Starwood voluntary resort, that the Starwood Vacation Network membership does not transfer and you can't get a SVN membership unless you buy another TS from the developer. However, I was talking to a SVN customer service rep yesterday and she said that I could get a SVN membership and 37,000 annual StarOptions for my Vistana Resort 1 BR or my Sheraton Desert Oasis 1 BR, or both if I wanted to pay $599 each plus $99 per year membership fee.  She is sending me the paperwork to do this. The TS's I own are week 1-52 floating weeks and are the small 1 BR's.

Has anyone heard of this deal before, and do you think it's worth doing? I bought both of these resales on Ebay cheap (under $1,000 each including closing costs). I would get 74,000 StarOptions per year if I did this for a one time cost of $1,200 plus an additional $200 per year over my M&T, if what she says is correct. Also, I thought that if you owned more than one resort in the SVN, that you only had to pay one annual $99 membership fee, but she said that you had to pay the $99 fee for each resort you own in the SVN.


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## DeniseM (Jan 18, 2007)

Robert D said:


> Has anyone heard of this deal before, and do you think it's worth doing?



Oh yeah!  :whoopie:  Can you please email me her name and number!


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## nodge (Jan 18, 2007)

Hi Robert D,

I heard a similar story from one contracts guy at SVN, but was told that the $599 buy-in deal was a special exception limited to Vistana Resort Cascades and Lakes resale owners.  He told me that this deal did not extend to Sheraton Desert Oasis or any other SVN voluntary resorts besides VR Cascades and Lakes.

Please keep us posted, including posting the titles of the documents SVN sends you.

Thanks!
-nodge


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## Robert D (Jan 18, 2007)

Thanks for the info, Nodge.  Do you think I should do it if I can get into the SVN for the $599 fee?  Not sure that it would be worth it for just 37K Staroptions per year which is what one of my two TS's would get, per the rep I talked to.  I'll let you know if it works, but have to tell you that I have my doubts.  Hopefully will get the paperwork next week.


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## Denise L (Jan 18, 2007)

If this works, I can just picture all the TUGers trying to buy cheap Cascades or Lakes weeks on ebay....


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## myip (Jan 18, 2007)

Robert D said:


> Has anyone heard of this deal before, and do you think it's worth doing? I bought both of these resales on Ebay cheap (under $1,000 each including closing costs). I would get 74,000 StarOptions per year if I did this for a one time cost of $1,200 plus an additional $200 per year over my M&T, if what she says is correct. Also, I thought that if you owned more than one resort in the SVN, that you only had to pay one annual $99 membership fee, but she said that you had to pay the $99 fee for each resort you own in the SVN.



Please send me the name and phone of your sale rep.


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## DeniseM (Jan 18, 2007)

myip said:


> Please send me the name and phone of your sale rep.



I already asked - he doesn't have it, so we will have to wait for his paperwork to arrived.  He just called the 800 number and spoke to whoever answered the phone.


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## Denise L (Jan 18, 2007)

DeniseM said:


> I already asked - he doesn't have it, so we will have to wait for his paperwork to arrived.  He just called the 800 number and spoke to whoever answered the phone.



Maybe if you called randomly like he did, you might get someone to tell you the same information and send you paperwork too? Just a thought...


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## Robert D (Jan 18, 2007)

I actually called for a question about a Vistana Villages TS I saw on Ebay where the buyer said you had to pay a $599 fee to have the SVN membership transferred over if you bought the VV unit.  I never heard of this before and called to find out if this was correct.  The rep confirmed that you did have to pay that fee and then I asked if I could get the SVN membership on my VR (Cascades) and Desert Oasis TS if I paid the $599. She put me on hold, talked to a supervisor, and then said yes. I didn't even think to get her name but she is sending me the paperwork for both of my TS's. She said I'd also have to pay an additional $99 per year for each of my 2 TS's for the SVN membership.  I thought I read somewhere if you owned more than one week in the SVN that you only had to pay one $99 fee - isn't this fee primarily for the II membership?


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## Denise L (Jan 18, 2007)

Robert D said:


> She said I'd also have to pay an additional $99 per year for each of my 2 TS's for the SVN membership.  I thought I read somewhere if you owned more than one week in the SVN that you only had to pay one $99 fee - isn't this fee primarily for the II membership?



Usually, the first week is $99 (103.30 in Hawaii), second week is $30 (31.30 in Hawaii), subsequent weeks are included at no additional charge.

But then again, usually you can't join SVN with a resale with $599, so for $99/year, it would be worth it to me even on the second and third intervals.


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## Henry M. (Jan 18, 2007)

If you are 5 Star Elite the SVN fee is waived altogether.


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## DavidnRobin (Jan 18, 2007)

Denise L said:


> Usually, the first week is $99 (103.30 in Hawaii), second week is $30 (31.30 in Hawaii), subsequent weeks are included at no additional charge.
> 
> But then again, usually you can't join SVN with a resale with $599, so for $99/year, it would be worth it to me even on the second and third intervals.


No one asked this...but, does paying the $599 fee to get into SVN give the owner the right to transfer this priviledge to a buyer upon resale?


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## Denise L (Jan 18, 2007)

blujahz said:


> No one asked this...but, does paying the $599 fee to get into SVN give the owner the right to transfer this priviledge to a buyer upon resale?



First, it is highly unlikely that $599 will get these resales into SVN. But, pretending that it did, it would be at a voluntary resort, so there is no way it would be transferrable anyhow.


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## duke (Jan 19, 2007)

Here's my bet:  
The $599 only applies to the original owner (not the resale purchaser).  
JMHO


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## DavidnRobin (Jan 19, 2007)

*SVO sales discussion*



duke said:


> Here's my bet:
> The $599 only applies to the original owner (not the resale purchaser).
> JMHO


I had the opportunity to speak with SVO Direct Sales - someone who was very forthcoming and knowledgable - so I would put him low on the SVO TS BS factor (meaning I believed him...)

I didn't ask him specifically about whether this SVN right was transferred to the buyer upon resale - but from my conversation with him - it would not be.  

However, the $595-$695 fee does exist, but it is dependent on the resort and when the owner bought their unit.  He stated that this fee was created for the owners of resort that were bought into the SVO system that were not originally in the system - also it could be dependent on the phase of the development of the resort.

There are resorts that have both Voluntary and Mandatory sections depending on their phase.

Also from my notes... (somewhat scattered)
They are selling WPORV 2Bd LO (148.1K SOs) for $47.5K (only 2bd LOs - you can't just buy the 1bd side) with an associated 86400 SPs and an incentive of 130K SPs) - sells are moving swiftly).

WPORV is a 'V' resort - and all new resort developments are going to be 'V' resorts.  WSJ BV is a 'M' resort.  WKORV-N is a 'M' resort.

They also are selling (or will be selling soon) WSJ BV, Aruba, Cancun, Harborside (new phase), Amelia, some PGA and Myrtle Beach - and a few summer weeks in CO.

WMH and WKV is sold out.  WKORV-N IVs are gone and there are only limited OFs (68.9K) and OVs (57.9K)  left.  They are opening resorts in Poipu and Desert Willow, Cabo (and maybe others that I didn't catch)

They do sell resale on an available basis - and stated that they pick them up in a variety of ways (owners requests, ROFR...).  For these - at some resorts like WMH there is a waitlist. He also said that the paper prices for units at sold out resorts (like our WKORV OF being listed in the high 80s) - is just that - a paper price.

They requalify on a week-by-week basis.
That if I was short by a few hundred SOs in attempting to qualify for 4* or 5* that they would allow that level.

He was very forthcoming with me - and I with him - meaning I told him about our SVO resales (and he didn't hang up on me...), but was curious about requalifying to get to 4* and 5* - he said the SPG Platinum for Life was still being offered and will likely be offered for a while.

Hmmm... that 's about all I can think of right now?

I had called days ago - and never received a call back.  This time - I was put through to him - and he spent time describing to me the ins/outs - and certainly was very helpful and answered all questions thoughtfully.  The best conversation I have had with a SVO TS salesperson (by far).


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## saluki (Jan 19, 2007)

Great job blujahz! Hang on that guy's contact info.


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## tomandrobin (Jan 19, 2007)

I am really surprised that all future resorts will be Voluntary.


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## saluki (Jan 19, 2007)

tomandrobin said:


> I am really surprised that all future resorts will be mandatory.



Blujahz guy says that all new resorts will be voluntary.


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## DavidnRobin (Jan 19, 2007)

saluki said:


> Blujahz guy says that all new resorts will be voluntary.


yep - "...and all new resort developments are going to be 'V' resorts."


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## Transit (Jan 19, 2007)

blujahz said:


> all new resort developments are going to be 'V' resorts."


Did the rep discuss the wisdom behind this or what their veiw is on the mandatory/ voluntary issue is ?


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## DavidnRobin (Jan 19, 2007)

Transit said:


> Did the rep discuss the wisdom behind this or what their veiw is on the mandatory/ voluntary issue is ?



Not one that made sense, but that is from the owners/buyers perspective - for SVO I think it has to do with control (prices and inventory).

One thing I forgot to mention was the whole 'Club' vs. SVN that is mentioned in the Owners manual (from another thread) - the 'Club' was created because SVO was thinking that the resorts would have a system that allowed for exchanging between them, but it became to large to manage at that level - so SVN was created to oversee exchanges.


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## tomandrobin (Jan 19, 2007)

blujahz said:


> Not one that made sense, but that is from the owners/buyers perspective - for SVO I think it has to do with control (prices and inventory).



I think making the future resorts voluntary makes sense from Starwood point of view. If you want to use Staroptions for trading, you have to buy from the developer, unless you can find one of the older mandatory resorts. It makes it harder for the buyer to get into the Starwood system with 1990's prices.


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## jerseygirl (Jan 19, 2007)

Ah... but the fees they're giving up.  I love my HGVC and Hyatt memberships, but they sure know how to "fee" you to death.  Fee for reservation.  Fee for change.  Fee to bank points to the next year.  Fees for EVERYTHING = VERY lucrative for developer.  

You can bet money that when the economy sinks (and it always does,  sooner or later) and sales dry up, Starwood will be looking for new ways to make money.  Why do you think they're so secretive about all this?  So they can change it when it's to their advantage to do so.   JMHO 

When I bought my first two Starwood units (resale -- about 5-6 years ago), Sales called within 2 weeks of the resort notification and offered to convert both if I purchased an EOY silver Broadway Plantation for less than $5K.  I reported it on TUG at the time, but the reaction was not positive from those who had paid "retail," so I kept :ignore: about it for a long time (I didn't want the opportunity to go away due to retail buyer dissatisfaction).  But, I sent many a private message about it to those who were in the "thinking about buying" phase. 

I chose not to buy the EOY at the time because I was really happy with the trades I was getting with II (Harborside was one of my first trades with a Starwood unit) and it didn't seem necessary to throw $5K away to get what I was able to get for $119 through II.  I kept in touch with the Sales guy (very nice guy!) for a long time -- even sent him a few referrals.  He gave me advance warning of the new policy where they were only going to let you bring one resale in with one developer purchase -- but followed it up with the "buy an EOY year/bring one in, then buy the other half and bring a second one in" strategy.  So, it was definitely possible (I'd say this was about 2 years ago).  Sometimes I regretted never doing it, but then I'd get a good trade (got a WSJ this year) and be back on the side of the fence that was glad I didn't do it.   I finally broke down and bought a Harborside gold week that works for us (no trading necessary), so I no longer have any desire to convert.  In fact, I'm pretty sure I'm going to dump 2 of my 3 "voluntary" weeks as soon as prices start going back up on ebay (I've watched the ebay market for years -- prices always tank in November and then start picking up again in February/March).  I've got more weeks than I can possibly use (retirement is still 10-15 years away), so I'm going to stick with my favorites (Harborside, HGVC , Hyatt Coconut Plantation and a Royal Holiday week for Europe) and just keep one or two of my cheap but fun traders for spontaneous trading.

I've learned a lot about timesharing over the years, but first and foremost is that it takes a long time to really understand what works best (and that's different for all of us).


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## myip (Jan 24, 2007)

I have been told that $599 is for the original owner to join SVN.  When you buy a (non-mandatory) resort.  YOu have an option to whether to join SVN.  At later dates, you may decide to join and you have to  pay $599.  Usually the developer will waive the $599 when you first brought.   You let your SVN lapse the next year and decide to join again.


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## Robert D (Jan 24, 2007)

MYIP, what you describe makes a lot of sense, but the rep I talked to knew I bought it as a resale.  However, I still have not received any paperwork from them, so I don't expect this to work.


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## Robert D (Feb 22, 2007)

*Update*

Well, I never got the forms from Starwood to apply for SVN membership.  Called them last week and the rep said it was in process and I should receive it soon.  Called them again this afternoon, and the rep said that they had determined that I do not qualify for SVN membership since I bought a resale. She said that someone in the department that handles SVN membership had reviewed my TS's and saw that I didn't qualify.  I asked her if the rep who told me that I could pay the $599 and get into the SVN didn't know what she was talking about, and she said "probably so".

Frankly, I'm not sure that it is that much of a benefit or even worth the $599 cost plus $99 per year to get 37,000 Staroptions per year.  The big time resorts probably take more than 37K to get a 1BR during the most popular times of the year.  If I owned a 2BR that would have given 81,000 Staroptions, it would have been more attractive.


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## Henry M. (Feb 22, 2007)

A one bedroom in Maui costs 81,000 Staroptions, a studio 67,100 so 37,000 SOs don't go very far.


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## DavidnRobin (Feb 22, 2007)

Robert D said:


> Well, I never got the forms from Starwood to apply for SVN membership.  Called them last week and the rep said it was in process and I should receive it soon.  Called them again this afternoon, and the rep said that they had determined that I do not qualify for SVN membership since I bought a resale. She said that someone in the department that handles SVN membership had reviewed my TS's and saw that I didn't qualify.  I asked her if the rep who told me that I could pay the $599 and get into the SVN didn't know what she was talking about, and she said "probably so".
> 
> Frankly, I'm not sure that it is that much of a benefit or even worth the $599 cost plus $99 per year to get 37,000 Staroptions per year.  The big time resorts probably take more than 37K to get a 1BR during the most popular times of the year.  If I owned a 2BR that would have given 81,000 Staroptions, it would have been more attractive.



I agree - you saved yourself $599 (+ $99py) - my breakpoint would be 81K SOs.  A benefit of WKV is that we were paying a SVN fee that we would never use for WSJ or WKORV anyway - at least with 81K SOs at WKV we can trade into Hawaii.  Regardless ... they do not offer this to resale buyers.  Asking some underpaid SVO/SVN underlin this question and expecting a correct answer...??? ummm.. 'nuff said.


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