# Buying a Mandatory resort vs Voluntary and trading with preference



## jjking42 (Apr 8, 2019)

I am trying not to buy another timeshare but the bug has bitten and I have the itch.
My very first timeshare presentation was Westin Kierland  many years ago when it was brand new. I  liked the program and the resorts. I did not buy from Westin but found TUG and starting buying other resales. Since then I cant count them all but I have had Marriotts , HGVC, Wyndham, and lots of independents timeshares but never a Starwood.

Mandatory resort will cost me some money up front but has star options and a voluntary I can probably get for free but will end up paying II exchange fees on top of MF.

Which way works best for those that already own Westin/Vistana ?

Feel free to talk me out of both options!! I am trying to be strong and resist the urge but I already looked on ebay and the TUG bargain basement thread and that made the itch worse.


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## rickandcindy23 (Apr 8, 2019)

Spend the money on Westin Kierland and use the SO's.  I cannot use another timeshare, so I have yet to do it, but I would pay the $14K or whatever to get a 2 bed Kierland with max Options.


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## jjking42 (Apr 8, 2019)

Cindy,
Your not doing a very good job of talking me out of buying another time share. My fear is that those mandatory units would depreciate in value over time  Is Vistana propping up those price with ROFR or is that a real market price.


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## VacationForever (Apr 8, 2019)

There is no ROFR at Westin Kierland.


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## vacationtime1 (Apr 8, 2019)

jjking42 said:


> Cindy,
> Your not doing a very good job of talking me out of buying another time share. My fear is that those mandatory units would depreciate in value over time  Is Vistana propping up those price with ROFR or is that a real market price.



The price of a resale 148100 Kierland unit hasn't changed much in the past few years.  It was in the low/mid $20's before The Great Recession and in the mid-teens since.  We paid the 2006 price but are happy with it nonetheless (it's been a very profitable renter when we didn't use the StarOptions ourselves).


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## rickandcindy23 (Apr 8, 2019)

VacationForever said:


> There is no ROFR at Westin Kierland.


Cool.  I would love to buy one, but Rick told me to sell some first.  It's kind of like choosing what kitten to give away.  I cannot do it!


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## SteelerGal (Apr 9, 2019)

We are a Westin/Sheraton as well.  Because we are a family of 7 w/ young children, traveling off season works best so we have Mandatory and Voluntary Gold Plus Season.  We already own on Big Island so our focus is really w/in driving distance or cheap airfare.


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## DannyTS (Apr 9, 2019)

Westin Kierland is a good option. At the same time, you have to spend more upfront than if you buy Sheraton Vistana Villages (Bella and Key West are mandatory)
You would receive 81,000 Staroptions for:
- 1 Bedroom premium Westin Kierland
cost around 8.5k, maintenece fees $960

2 bedroom platinum Sheraton Vistana Villages, Bella section
cost around 1.5k ,maintenece fees $1,181

Now it is for you to decide whether a $221 save in MF is worth spending 7k more upfront.


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## bizaro86 (Apr 9, 2019)

I think at least partially it depends where you want to go and what size you need. Vistana is depositing almost no two bedroom units into II anymore (only where they don't have lock-offs) so getting a 2 bedroom through II is unlikely, even with preference. If you would normally book 1 bedroom or studio units anyway though, a good voluntary trader will be much cheaper than the mandatory options. Less flexibility (weeklong stays, only where they deposit), but less money.


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## mjm1 (Apr 9, 2019)

jjking42 said:


> I am trying not to buy another timeshare but the bug has bitten and I have the itch.
> My very first timeshare presentation was Westin Kierland  many years ago when it was brand new. I  liked the program and the resorts. I did not buy from Westin but found TUG and starting buying other resales. Since then I cant count them all but I have had Marriotts , HGVC, Wyndham, and lots of independents timeshares but never a Starwood.
> 
> Mandatory resort will cost me some money up front but has star options and a voluntary I can probably get for free but will end up paying II exchange fees on top of MF.
> ...



We bought WKV 1BR Premium with 81k SO’s and are very happy with it. We wanted a resort that we would want to use if we didn’t trade using SO’s. Prices since we bought resale have seemed pretty level and we have received great value from our ownership. Being in Texas it would be easy for you to travel to either location, so that gives you more flexibility. We are on the west coast, so WKV made the most sense even though it cost more up front. 

Good luck with your decision.

Best regards.

Mike


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## ski_sierra (Apr 9, 2019)

bizaro86 said:


> I think at least partially it depends where you want to go and what size you need. Vistana is depositing almost no two bedroom units into II anymore (only where they don't have lock-offs) so getting a 2 bedroom through II is unlikely, even with preference. If you would normally book 1 bedroom or studio units anyway though, a good voluntary trader will be much cheaper than the mandatory options. Less flexibility (weeklong stays, only where they deposit), but less money.






DannyTS said:


> Westin Kierland is a good option. At the same time, you have to spend more upfront than if you buy Sheraton Vistana Villages (Bella and Key West are mandatory)
> You would receive 81,000 Staroptions for:
> - 1 Bedroom premium Westin Kierland
> cost around 8.5k, maintenece fees $960
> ...



Does this mean SVV is a better choice than SDO or SBP. You can trade through II but you can also use staroptions is you don't get a good exchcange. 

Any insights into the trade power of platinum weeks at WKV, SDO, SVV and SBP?


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## bizaro86 (Apr 9, 2019)

ski_sierra said:


> Does this mean SVV is a better choice than SDO or SBP. You can trade through II but you can also use staroptions is you don't get a good exchcange.
> 
> Any insights into the trade power of platinum weeks at WKV, SDO, SVV and SBP?



I would rate the trade power of these in II as follows:

Plat WKV, true Plat SDO, 1-52 SDO,  SBP, and then SVV plat. The differences between any of them aren't huge, and in most cases all would see the same stuff.  There are pretty dramatic cost differences among those options however.

I think SVV suffers in II from being in Orlando, which is pretty over built.


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## ski_sierra (Apr 9, 2019)

bizaro86 said:


> I would rate the trade power of these in II as follows:
> 
> Plat WKV, true Plat SDO, 1-52 SDO,  SBP, and then SVV plat. The differences between any of them aren't huge, and in most cases all would see the same stuff.  There are pretty dramatic cost differences among those options however.
> 
> I think SVV suffers in II from being in Orlando, which is pretty over built.



Interesting. That probably explains the high buy in prices of WKV. I would have thought Phoenix and Palm Springs are also overbuilt but I guess not like Orlando.


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## bizaro86 (Apr 9, 2019)

ski_sierra said:


> Interesting. That probably explains the high buy in prices of WKV. I would have thought Phoenix and Palm Springs are also overbuilt but I guess not like Orlando.



Nah - WKV is expensive for lots of reasons:

1) it's the nicest resort on your list, so high use value

2) it has a great ratio of staroptions to MF for a mandatory resort

3) probably the biggest is that you can earn a good return renting them out, which keeps the price high because it stops people from selling, since they can just rent at a profit.


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## jjking42 (Apr 10, 2019)

DannyTS said:


> Westin Kierland is a good option. At the same time, you have to spend more upfront than if you buy Sheraton Vistana Villages (Bella and Key West are mandatory)
> You would receive 81,000 Staroptions for:
> - 1 Bedroom premium Westin Kierland
> cost around 8.5k, maintenece fees $960
> ...



The 221 savings is not enough to justify the extra 7k in purchase price. Pretty sure I could make 81k star options work but would rather get a two bedroom lock off for 95k star option. Anyone know the MF on that one. Also I hate the idea of owning in Orlando because I can always trade to Orlando with cheap traders 

I know longer need two bedrooms units so trading for studio and one bedroom unit with a voluntary in II is also an option 


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## jjking42 (Apr 23, 2019)

Will SDO 1 bedroom be a good II trader. I only need 1 bedroom in exchange. 

What is the 2019 MF for those ?
How can I tell the difference between a 1 bedroom and I bedroom premier 
Is it based on unit number ? 

Would I be better off with a 2 bedroom SDO 

All I really want is to get inside this preference with a cheap good trader? 


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## SteelerGal (Apr 24, 2019)

jjking42 said:


> Will SDO 1 bedroom be a good II trader. I only need 1 bedroom in exchange.
> 
> What is the 2019 MF for those ?
> How can I tell the difference between a 1 bedroom and I bedroom premier
> ...


There’s Std and Premium.  STD is under $700 while Premium is close to $900.  I believe 2bd LO is $1200.


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## vacationtime1 (Apr 25, 2019)

jjking42 said:


> Will SDO 1 bedroom be a good II trader. I only need 1 bedroom in exchange.
> 
> What is the 2019 MF for those ?
> How can I tell the difference between a 1 bedroom and I bedroom premier
> ...



You should consider the Kierland shoulder season small one bedroom unit.  I own two of them, I used to own two SDO one bedroom units, and they seem to trade the same (I was almost always using the Vistana-to-Vistana preference). 

Kierland is mandatory.  No ROFR.

MF's = $604; essentially the same as SDO

Cost to purchase = $0 (my most recent cost $351 including escrow fees with a free use year thrown in)

Disadvantage:  Kierland is mandatory, so you must pay the VSN fee of ~$150/year.  VSN provides an Interval membership, but only for this unit.

Advantages:  It trades as a one bedroom (as does SDO).  You also get 37000 StarOptions as an alternative.  Not a lot, but sometimes useful for topping off another reservation.  If you own other VSN units the VSE fee is reduced or waived.  Plus my unwarranted and unsubstantiated belief that Kierland will be treated better than SDO in the eventual Marriott/Vistana integration.


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## DannyTS (Apr 25, 2019)

If you want to exchange, a great option is to buy the small 1bdr platinum season at the Sheraton Vistana Resort, the Cascades phase. The MF are only $480. I have only had it for few months but the trading power seems to be very good


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## jjking42 (Apr 25, 2019)

vacationtime1 said:


> You should consider the Kierland shoulder season small one bedroom unit.  I own two of them, I used to own two SDO one bedroom units, and they seem to trade the same (I was almost always using the Vistana-to-Vistana preference).
> 
> Kierland is mandatory.  No ROFR.
> 
> ...



OK i am going to try this. If it works and I like the vistana system i can always buy more resale points later


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## SteelerGal (Apr 25, 2019)

vacationtime1 said:


> You should consider the Kierland shoulder season small one bedroom unit.  I own two of them, I used to own two SDO one bedroom units, and they seem to trade the same (I was almost always using the Vistana-to-Vistana preference).
> 
> Kierland is mandatory.  No ROFR.
> 
> ...


Gold Plus or Silver Season.


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## jjking42 (Apr 25, 2019)

I am going for a gold 37,000 point week


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## dlpearson (Apr 25, 2019)

I have a SVV Bella (mandatory) 2 bedroom lockoff EOY (had it about 8 years now).  Have used staroptions to go to Harborside and Westin St John (with a bit of work/flexibility at the 8 month mark), and will go to Hawaii Kaanapali next year.  The higher 95,100 options of the lockoff come in handy.  MF is about $1650, plus the $150 club dues.  I was interested in the the Kierland route to get into the (then Starwood) system, but couldn't justify the significantly higher purchase price (even though the maintenance-fee-per-option ratio is better at Kierland than SVV).


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## vacationtime1 (Apr 25, 2019)

jjking42 said:


> I am going for a gold 37,000 point week



The 37000 week is now gold plus (it used to be gold; this season is weeks 22-27 & 36-49).

The summer weeks (weeks 28-35, which used to be silver) are now gold.

Grade inflation.


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## SteelerGal (Apr 25, 2019)

vacationtime1 said:


> The 37000 week is now gold plus (it used to be gold); this season is weeks 22-27 & 36-49).
> 
> The summer weeks (weeks 28-35, which used to be silver) are now gold.
> 
> Grade inflation.


Thanks.


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## DeniseM (Apr 25, 2019)

You cannot compare trading with Staroptions to trading with Interval.  You have *MUCH* more availability with Staroption exchanges - especially at the top resorts during high season. 

Vistana controls what is deposited with Interval - not owners, and at the top resorts, Vistana only deposits off-season weeks, and not very many of them.

*There is a database for maintenance fees linked at the top of this forum.


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## jjking42 (Apr 26, 2019)

Question about Star options 

Can you book less than full weeks at 8 months. Most of the time I will want 3-5 days. I read somewhere that you could only book shorts stays at 3 months. 

Borrowing star options 
Can you borrow from next year ?
What are the rules for that. 

I think I have banking figured out.

Looking forward to being a Westin Owner 


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## DeniseM (Apr 26, 2019)

You can book any length of stay at 8 months - up to 21 nights.  
To borrow from the next year, you have to pay the maintenance fee in full for the next year.


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## Ken555 (Apr 26, 2019)

jjking42 said:


> Question about Star options
> 
> Can you book less than full weeks at 8 months. Most of the time I will want 3-5 days. I read somewhere that you could only book shorts stays at 3 months.



It used to be that way but for a few years or longer we have been able to reserve less than a week at eight months.



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## jjking42 (Apr 26, 2019)

If you have multiple star option weeks do they charge you more than one VSN fees 

If it’s only one fee does it go up every time you add more points ?


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## byeloe (Apr 26, 2019)

jjking42 said:


> If you have multiple star option weeks do they charge you more than one VSN fees
> 
> If it’s only one fee does it go up every time you add more points ?
> 
> ...


the 1st contract is around $140 and $50 for the second.  After that there are no additional fees.


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## jjking42 (Apr 26, 2019)

Any disadvantage having too small points packages from different resorts other than the 50.00

Pros would have two home resorts 

Cons would have to wait until 8 month mark if I wanted to use combined points for a larger unit at one of the resorts 


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## jjking42 (Apr 26, 2019)

DeniseM said:


> You can book any length of stay at 8 months - up to 21 nights.
> To borrow from the next year, you have to pay the maintenance fee in full for the next year.



Any limitations as far booking window or just pay the MF and now you have next years points ?

I assume you can borrow  a part of your points and don’t have to borrow all of them 


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## EnglishmanAbroad (Apr 26, 2019)

jjking42 said:


> Any disadvantage having too small points packages from different resorts other than the 50.00
> 
> Pros would have two home resorts
> 
> ...



I believe that con exists even if you own two packages at the same resort. You can't combine them at the 12 month mark to get a larger unit as your home resort booking(s) are always as per contracted ownership.


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## YYJMSP (Apr 26, 2019)

jjking42 said:


> Any limitations as far booking window or just pay the MF and now you have next years points ?
> 
> I assume you can borrow  a part of your points and don’t have to borrow all of them
> 
> ...



you can only borrow the exact amount you are short for a specific booking, and you can only do it 8mos in advance and you have to call in to do it

if you own an EOY you can only borrow in to a use year (odd to odd, even to even)


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## bizaro86 (Apr 26, 2019)

YYJMSP said:


> you can only borrow the exact amount you are short for a specific booking, and you can only do it 8mos in advance and you have to call in to do it
> 
> if you own an EOY you can only borrow in to a use year (odd to odd, even to even)



Could you modify to hold availability?

Ie book 4 nights when your window opens at midnight, then call the next morning to pay/borrow and modify the 4 nights to longer using the borrowed staroptions?


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## YYJMSP (Apr 26, 2019)

bizaro86 said:


> Could you modify to hold availability?
> 
> Ie book 4 nights when your window opens at midnight, then call the next morning to pay/borrow and modify the 4 nights to longer using the borrowed staroptions?



there would be no guarantee that you could get a single booking for the longer period, but if there was, I'm not sure if they can extend the booking or (more likely) would have to cancel the initial 4 nights and book the longer period


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## CPNY (Jul 1, 2019)

jjking42 said:


> The 221 savings is not enough to justify the extra 7k in purchase price. Pretty sure I could make 81k star options work but would rather get a two bedroom lock off for 95k star option. Anyone know the MF on that one. Also I hate the idea of owning in Orlando because I can always trade to Orlando with cheap traders
> 
> I know longer need two bedrooms units so trading for studio and one bedroom unit with a voluntary in II is also an option
> 
> ...



I just picked up an EOY SVV Key West 95,700 to go along with my Annual SVV KW 2 LO worth 95,700. MF last year for annual was 1499 not including the VSN fee. I’m expecting to pay 2445 annually for my 95,700 odd year then combo of 190K star options in even years with my EY/EOYE. For reference I purchased resale annual 2 years ago for 1000 purchase price and just paid as of Friday $500 purchase price for the EOY.


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## CPNY (Jul 1, 2019)

YYJMSP said:


> there would be no guarantee that you could get a single booking for the longer period, but if there was, I'm not sure if they can extend the booking or (more likely) would have to cancel the initial 4 nights and book the longer period



If you’re going to do that I’d just borrow the points before making the reservation... or if you make the reservation for 4 nights at midnight 8mo, make it for 4 days then 4 days later make another reservation for 4 more days at midnight8mo. You can’t modify to my knowledge. They just would have to cancel then re run availability. It’s just better to add with another reservation.


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## kiapgh23e (Jul 2, 2019)

CPNY said:


> I just picked up an EOY SVV Key West 95,700 to go along with my Annual SVV KW 2 LO worth 95,700. MF last year for annual was 1499 not including the VSN fee. I’m expecting to pay 2445 annually for my 95,700 odd year then combo of 190K star options in even years with my EY/EOYE. For reference I purchased resale annual 2 years ago for 1000 purchase price and just paid as of Friday $500 purchase price for the EOY.



Sorry to hijack but your post touches on a question I was thinking about on my survey thread. Can you bank your EY KW (say 2020) to your EY/EOYE? In essence have 285K in 2021.


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## dioxide45 (Jul 2, 2019)

kiapgh23e said:


> Sorry to hijack but your post touches on a question I was thinking about on my survey thread. Can you bank your EY KW (say 2020) to your EY/EOYE? In essence have 285K in 2021.


Yes, when you bank your SOs are good for another two years. So 2020 SOs banked would be added to and can be combined with 2021 or 2022 StarOptions for use.


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## kiapgh23e (Jul 2, 2019)

dioxide45 said:


> Yes, when you bank your SOs are good for another two years. So 2020 SOs banked would be added to and can be combined with 2021 or 2022 StarOptions for use.



Thanks, good to know.


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## CPNY (Jul 2, 2019)

kiapgh23e said:


> Sorry to hijack but your post touches on a question I was thinking about on my survey thread. Can you bank your EY KW (say 2020) to your EY/EOYE? In essence have 285K in 2021.


Yes. You can also bank the eoy to the next two years. However you cannot bring an even year into an odd year. For example, I’m scheduled to get points in 2021 say in an odd year arrangement. You cannot bring those 2021 (odd) forward to 2020 (even) but you an bring the 2021 odd year forward to 2019 another odd year. Banking however is different. You have two years from banked whether it’s an annual or a every other year contract.

Annual deeded weeks can be banked and pulled forward each year. Every other year can only be pulled forward into like years. Odd to odd or even to even depending on which you own. In short, yes they will overlap and I will have a ton of options lol. I’ll have 300K options between the 51K banked this year and what will renew next.


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## kiapgh23e (Jul 3, 2019)

CPNY said:


> Yes. You can also bank the eoy to the next two years. However you cannot bring an even year into an odd year. For example, I’m scheduled to get points in 2021 say in an odd year arrangement. You cannot bring those 2021 (odd) forward to 2020 (even) but you an bring the 2021 odd year forward to 2019 another odd year. Banking however is different. You have two years from banked whether it’s an annual or a every other year contract.
> 
> Annual deeded weeks can be banked and pulled forward each year. Every other year can only be pulled forward into like years. Odd to odd or even to even depending on which you own. In short, yes they will overlap and I will have a ton of options lol. I’ll have 300K options between the 51K banked this year and what will renew next.



Great info. Thank you.


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## CalGalTraveler (Jul 26, 2019)

CPNY said:


> Yes. You can also bank the eoy to the next two years. However you cannot bring an even year into an odd year. For example, I’m scheduled to get points in 2021 say in an odd year arrangement. You cannot bring those 2021 (odd) forward to 2020 (even) but you an bring the 2021 odd year forward to 2019 another odd year. Banking however is different. You have two years from banked whether it’s an annual or a every other year contract.
> 
> Annual deeded weeks can be banked and pulled forward each year. Every other year can only be pulled forward into like years. Odd to odd or even to even depending on which you own. In short, yes they will overlap and I will have a ton of options lol. I’ll have 300K options between the 51K banked this year and what will renew next.



@CPNY  This is a very helpful explanation. Just to confirm that I understand this correctly:

Example: EOY contract Odd next points 2021:

* The 2021 SO Points can be pulled into 2019 but not 2020.
* The 2021 SO Points can be banked and used 2022 or 2023. (i.e. 2 years to used banked)

Lastly, what is the best source to find SVV deals for Bella or Key West?


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## SteelerGal (Jul 26, 2019)

CalGalTraveler said:


> @CPNY  This is a very helpful explanation. Just to confirm that I understand this correctly:
> 
> Example: EOY contract Odd next points 2021:
> 
> ...


You can look on EBay, TUG MarketPlace, or Redweek for KeyWest or Bella.  I have purchased off of all 3.


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## CPNY (Jul 26, 2019)

SteelerGal said:


> You can look on EBay, TUG MarketPlace, or Redweek for KeyWest or Bella.  I have purchased off of all 3.


@CalGalTraveler Red week has an annual at 1400. I’ve actually had great success with sellmytimesharenow.com. Their listed prices are in the thousands but then when you speak to an agent you offer a few hundred bucks. Just got an annual key west two weeks ago for 700 purchase price. They were asking 10,000 LOL 3 weeks ago on marketplace I picked up an EOY for 300. Only things I’ve seen on EBay so far have been lower season units. For 67K or flex units. Beginning of fall is a good time to look. More listings come up since everyone is using their ownership to travel lol. I was going to sell my key west plat lockout but booked spring break next march so I guess I’ll sell it next summer for 2021 usage lol.


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## buzglyd (Jul 26, 2019)

CalGalTraveler said:


> @CPNY  This is a very helpful explanation. Just to confirm that I understand this correctly:
> 
> Example: EOY contract Odd next points 2021:
> 
> ...



Also check myresortnetwork dot com. I got odd year Bella 81k for $100.


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## TravelTime (Jul 27, 2019)

DannyTS said:


> Westin Kierland is a good option. At the same time, you have to spend more upfront than if you buy Sheraton Vistana Villages (Bella and Key West are mandatory)
> You would receive 81,000 Staroptions for:
> - 1 Bedroom premium Westin Kierland
> cost around 8.5k, maintenece fees $960
> ...



I would save the $$$ upfront


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## CPNY (Jul 27, 2019)

buzglyd said:


> Also check myresortnetwork dot com. I got odd year Bella 81k for $100.


When did you get that for 100? Must have been a bit ago. I feel like prices have gone way up. Seems like there are less out there


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## dioxide45 (Jul 27, 2019)

CPNY said:


> When did you get that for 100? Must have been a bit ago. I feel like prices have gone way up. Seems like there are less out there


My thoughts exactly. Prices quoted from a year, two or more ago are completely irrelevant now. You may still find some bargains, but the picking are slim.


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## buzglyd (Jul 27, 2019)

dioxide45 said:


> My thoughts exactly. Prices quoted from a year, two or more ago are completely irrelevant now. You may still find some bargains, but the picking are slim.



I picked it up in 2018 and used it in 2019. The 19 maintenance fees had already been paid as well. I guess it was a good score.


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## CPNY (Jul 27, 2019)

So


buzglyd said:


> I picked it up in 2018 and used it in 2019. The 19 maintenance fees had already been paid as well. I guess it was a good score.


 sounds like it! I paid 700 with closing for an EOYO so figure 300-350 purchase price. I’m seeing annuals at 1,400 plus closing.


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## SteelerGal (Jul 27, 2019)

Annuals are expensive.  Haven’t reached MVc prices however prices are definitely higher.


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## DannyTS (Jul 27, 2019)

SteelerGal said:


> Annuals are expensive.  Haven’t reached MCC prices however prices are definitely higher.


Annuals are more expensive in part because you save on closing costs compared to 2X EOY. But I also think Vistana should add some flexibilty and allow people to use the EOY staroptions for any year usage even if they can only be acquired the year of the contract (odd or even). We avoided buying EOY for that reason. Especially when it comes to banking, 4 years is a very long period of time, even for a timeshare.


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## dioxide45 (Jul 27, 2019)

An EOY 81K sold on Ebay this evening for a little under $1000. I bid, but don't want to spend too much. The new going rates are too rich for me.


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## SteelerGal (Jul 27, 2019)

dioxide45 said:


> An annual 81K sold on Ebay this evening for a little under $1000. I bid, but don't want to spend too much. The new going rates are too rich for me.


Yes, today’s rates have steadily increased in the last 6mo.  Still not as high as MVC however still a significant increase.  Even SDO has increased.(Was looking to p/u annual to release our EOY


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## CPNY (Jul 27, 2019)

dioxide45 said:


> An annual 81K sold on Ebay this evening for a little under $1000. I bid, but don't want to spend too much. The new going rates are too rich for me.


Lol I bid as well. It would have paired perfectly with my EOYO. But my max bid of. 500 was surpassed. Lol. Such is life.


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## dioxide45 (Jul 28, 2019)

CPNY said:


> Lol I bid as well. It would have paired perfectly with my EOYO. But my max bid of. 500 was surpassed. Lol. Such is life.


I incorrectly stated it was an annual, but it actually was EOY-Even. Selling for $921 would set the annual price at about $1850.


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## CPNY (Jul 28, 2019)

dioxide45 said:


> I incorrectly stated it was an annual, but it actually was EOY-Even. Selling for $921 would set the annual price at about $1850.


Yeah which is why I thought 921 was way too high. I’m seeing some of the annuals start to come down in price from their already inflated asking.


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## pchung6 (Jul 28, 2019)

I'm considering an annual WKV 2br, but still not able to find any good deal yet. All asking prices are around 15k and no one listens my offer at 10.


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## Tucsonadventurer (Jul 28, 2019)

pchung6 said:


> I'm considering an annual WKV 2br, but still not able to find any good deal yet. All asking prices were around 15k and no one listens my offer at 10.


We payed 14,500 for ours and have no regrets. You may be able to find one at 12,500. 10 seems low but you never know. Good luck


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## sjsharkie (Jul 28, 2019)

pchung6 said:


> I'm considering an annual WKV 2br, but still not able to find any good deal yet. All asking prices were around 15k and no one listens my offer at 10.


Not surprised.  You have too many people who would snap one up at 10k for an annual, myself included and I already own here.  I think 12k might be a more reasonable offer where you might get someone to bite.

At 10k, you can make your money back just renting in 4 to 5 years.  Not to mention the staroption trading power 

Ryan

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## Ken555 (Jul 28, 2019)

pchung6 said:


> I'm considering an annual WKV 2br, but still not able to find any good deal yet. All asking prices are around 15k and no one listens my offer at 10.



I’m surprised they’re just not laughing at you. 10k is an outlier price for this resort...there needs to be some reason they need to sell quick, otherwise even 12k will sell quick...most I’ve seen in the last few years are closer to 15k.


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## dnmasters (Aug 12, 2019)

VacationForever said:


> There is no ROFR at Westin Kierland.


Interesting, I was just informed by my closing agent that Starwood/Vistana, now Marriott, just exercised their ROFR on our Ebay purchase of a Gold Season 2brm WKV for $500.00.  When I questioned the agent about whether the WKV was even subject to a ROFR she stated that she had seen Starwood/Vistana exercise its ROFR on many WKV resale purchases even prior to the Marriott acquisition.  I have asked her to request documentation from Starwood/Vistana/Marriott evidencing their ROFR with respect to resales, and although she said she would request the documentation, she said she didn't think they would provide any documentation.


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## vacationtime1 (Aug 12, 2019)

dnmast1 said:


> Interesting, I was just informed by my closing agent that Starwood/Vistana, now Marriott, just exercised their ROFR on our Ebay purchase of a Gold Season 2brm WKV for $500.00.  When I questioned the agent about whether the WKV was even subject to a ROFR she stated that she had seen Starwood/Vistana exercise its ROFR on many WKV resale purchases even prior to the Marriott acquisition.  I have asked her to request documentation from Starwood/Vistana/Marriott evidencing their ROFR with respect to resales, and although she said she would request the documentation, she said she didn't think they would provide any documentation.



Who is your closing agent?

This is not the first time we have heard of a claim that Marriott has somehow added a ROFR on Kierland.  No one has provided a factual or legal basis for the claim.  Your closing agent could verify this -- if it is real.


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## CPNY (Aug 12, 2019)

dnmast1 said:


> Interesting, I was just informed by my closing agent that Starwood/Vistana, now Marriott, just exercised their ROFR on our Ebay purchase of a Gold Season 2brm WKV for $500.00.  When I questioned the agent about whether the WKV was even subject to a ROFR she stated that she had seen Starwood/Vistana exercise its ROFR on many WKV resale purchases even prior to the Marriott acquisition.  I have asked her to request documentation from Starwood/Vistana/Marriott evidencing their ROFR with respect to resales, and although she said she would request the documentation, she said she didn't think they would provide any documentation.


This must be new, and a Marriott practice. I’ve never heard vistana doing it often, maybe because the resale values were always higher. Not surprised. And honestly you’re probably lucky. 1700 maint fee for 81K star options isn’t worth it. There is a reason why plat 2 bedrooms go for 15-17K buy in vs 500.


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## dnmasters (Aug 12, 2019)

vacationtime1 said:


> Who is your closing agent?
> 
> This is not the first time we have heard of a claim that Marriott has somehow added a ROFR on Kierland.  No one has provided a factual or legal basis for the claim.  Your closing agent could verify this -- if it is real.


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## dnmasters (Aug 12, 2019)

Sheila @ First Reliable Transfers


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## marmite (Aug 12, 2019)

WKV isn't even listed on ROFR.net as a resort to record ROFR failures on.   @dioxide45 Could you please have Kierland added to the database if ROFR on WKV is legitimate?    Please and thank you.


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## Ken555 (Aug 12, 2019)

dnmast1 said:


> Sheila @ First Reliable Transfers



This doesn’t make any sense. There is no ROFR for WKV. Let’s find the specific details in the docs for this, or else someone is not following the rules at Marriott (and if so, would that really surprise anyone?). 


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## echino (Aug 12, 2019)

Ask the agent to email you the document saying they are exercising ROFR.


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## CPNY (Aug 12, 2019)

Ken555 said:


> This doesn’t make any sense. There is no ROFR for WKV. Let’s find the specific details in the docs for this, or else someone is not following the rules at Marriott (and if so, would that really surprise anyone?).
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


I suspect it’s just Marriott doing whatever the heck they want.


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## SteelerGal (Aug 12, 2019)

Ken555 said:


> This doesn’t make any sense. There is no ROFR for WKV. Let’s find the specific details in the docs for this, or else someone is not following the rules at Marriott (and if so, would that really surprise anyone?).
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


If the Departments were merged, I wouldn’t be shocked.  It’s easy for mistakes to happen w/ mergers.


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## Ken555 (Aug 12, 2019)

SteelerGal said:


> If the Departments were merged, I wouldn’t be shocked.  It’s easy for mistakes to happen w/ mergers.



I think what you really mean is that it’s easy for Marriott to make mistakes.


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## CPNY (Aug 12, 2019)

Ken555 said:


> I think what you really mean is that it’s easy for Marriott to make mistakes.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


Sounds about right. Especially with reports of running into “not as friendly” CSR’s. IME with Marriott, their CS wasn’t always the greatest. Hopefully once things are streamlined things change.


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## cubigbird (Aug 12, 2019)

echino said:


> Ask the agent to email you the document saying they are exercising ROFR.



Doesn’t the ROFR terms have to be listed in the operating agreement / CCR or whatever the governing document is?  If they didn’t have ROFR before they can’t just make it up?  You’d think it would require an amendment to the operating agreement?


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## dnmasters (Aug 12, 2019)

echino said:


> Ask the agent to email you the document saying they are exercising ROFR.


I have asked for a copy of the ROFR exercise notification received by the closing agent as well as any supporting documentation.


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## dnmasters (Aug 12, 2019)

The notice of exercise letter references the seller, buyer (me) and the Account Number (presumably the seller's ownership account) and reads in pertinent part as follows:

*"is exercising its option to purchase your above-referenced Vacation Ownership Interest." *(note-it doesn't state who is exercising the option). _*"As stated in VSE Villas Arizona, Inc. 'Right of First Refusal' of the Vacation Ownership Declaration for your resort, the Developer has the right and option to purchase your Vacation Ownership Interest at the same price and with the same terms as contained in the 'Offer to Buy' presented by {prospective purchaser}."*
_
The rest of the letter addresses new closing documents to be sent to the seller and the timing of the closing, nothing material to the Developer's rights under the Declaration, with I presume is the CC&Rs for the resort.  I have asked for those documents and we will see if they will provide them.  The letter is from Vistana Signature Experiences, Inc., but no actual signature.


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## CPNY (Aug 12, 2019)

dnmast1 said:


> The notice of exercise letter references the seller, buyer (me) and the Account Number (presumably the seller's ownership account) and reads in pertinent part as follows:
> 
> *"is exercising its option to purchase your above-referenced Vacation Ownership Interest." *(note-it doesn't state who is exercising the option). _*"As stated in VSE Villas Arizona, Inc. 'Right of First Refusal' of the Vacation Ownership Declaration for your resort, the Developer has the right and option to purchase your Vacation Ownership Interest at the same price and with the same terms as contained in the 'Offer to Buy' presented by {prospective purchaser}."*
> _
> The rest of the letter addresses new closing documents to be sent to the seller and the timing of the closing, nothing material to the Developer's rights under the Declaration, with I presume is the CC&Rs for the resort.  I have asked for those documents and we will see if they will provide them.  The letter is from Vistana Signature Experiences, Inc., but no actual signature.


And so it begins! Seems like there is a new Sherriff in town. To all the nay sayers about how wonderful things are over there have blinders on about we won’t see a difference. Well, could we be seeing it start? It looks like it may be the case. If WKV never had ROFR or it was never exercised, it looks like it is now. Could be the result of the reported mass turnover of VSE employees and backfilled with new or existing MVC people.

I will say, many have said WKV and even SVV doesn’t have ROFR, however technically in the CCR’s it does actually state there is a ROFR option for SVV, or so I read (if I recall correctly) i May be completely thinking of something else. It just so happens it was never exercised?


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## SteelerGal (Aug 12, 2019)

If the CCR allows it, it makes sense to buy up what you can to build up Flex.  Especially Desert.  Desert is very popular year around.  Even in July/August.


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## DavidnRobin (Aug 12, 2019)

CPNY said:


> And so it begins! Seems like there is a new Sherriff in town. To all the nay sayers about how wonderful things are over there have blinders on about we won’t see a difference. Well, could we be seeing it start? It looks like it may be the case. If WKV never had ROFR or it was never exercised, it looks like it is now. Could be the result of the reported mass turnover of VSE employees and backfilled with new or existing MVC people.
> 
> I will say, many have said WKV and even SVV doesn’t have ROFR, however technically in the CCR’s it does actually state there is a ROFR option for SVV, or so I read (if I recall correctly) i May be completely thinking of something else. It just so happens it was never exercised?



I just read thru (quickly) the CCRs for WKV. I could have missed it, but no where I could find does it state a ROFR exists for WKV.  It should be in Section 3. This is the most recent WKV CCRs downloaded from the Vistana Dashboard.  I have an original copy stored in my files.

If anyone wants to tell me what section of the CCRs for a VSE Resort that does have a ROFR stated - let me know and I will recheck the corresponding section..  As mentioned, it was a quick read thru the initial 246 pages. The rest is the VSN Disclosure Guide, Info on mortgages, Buyers Guide, etc.


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## CPNY (Aug 12, 2019)

DavidnRobin said:


> I just read thru (quickly) the CCRs for WKV. I could have missed it, but no where I could find does it state a ROFR exists for WKV.  This is the most recent WKV CCRs downloaded from the Vistana Dashboard.  I have an original copy stored in my files.
> 
> If anyone wants to tell me what section of the CCRs for a VSE Resort that does have a ROFR stated - let me know and I will recheck the corresponding section..  As mentioned, it was a quick read thru the initial 246 pages. The rest is the VSN Disclosure Guide.


Yeah I did a quick and couldn’t find it but thought I read it somewhere in one of my mandatory before. Maybe it was harborside resort and that has it and I confused it with my SVV


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## DavidnRobin (Aug 12, 2019)

From WKORV CCRs - the ROFR is stated clearly. This does not exist in WKV CCRs.


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## DavidnRobin (Aug 12, 2019)

This is where it should be in WKV CCRs - nothing about a ROFR for WKV.



 Someone is not telling the truth - or proceeded forward against the WKV CCRs.


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## DavidnRobin (Aug 12, 2019)

dnmast1 said:


> The notice of exercise letter references the seller, buyer (me) and the Account Number (presumably the seller's ownership account) and reads in pertinent part as follows:
> 
> *"is exercising its option to purchase your above-referenced Vacation Ownership Interest." *(note-it doesn't state who is exercising the option). _*"As stated in VSE Villas Arizona, Inc. 'Right of First Refusal' of the Vacation Ownership Declaration for your resort, the Developer has the right and option to purchase your Vacation Ownership Interest at the same price and with the same terms as contained in the 'Offer to Buy' presented by {prospective purchaser}."*
> _
> The rest of the letter addresses new closing documents to be sent to the seller and the timing of the closing, nothing material to the Developer's rights under the Declaration, with I presume is the CC&Rs for the resort.  I have asked for those documents and we will see if they will provide them.  The letter is from Vistana Signature Experiences, Inc., but no actual signature.



As stated above - the words ‘Right of First Refusal’ do not exist in WKV CCRs. (or VSN Disclosure Docs).
It does in WKORV CCRs


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## CPNY (Aug 12, 2019)

DavidnRobin said:


> This is where it should be in WKV CCRs - nothing about a ROFR for WKV.
> 
> View attachment 13388 Someone is not telling the truth - or proceeded forward against the WKV CCRs.


Then it’s not in SVV either I think. I May have read it in the HRA CCR and was confused


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## Ken555 (Aug 12, 2019)

dnmast1 said:


> The notice of exercise letter references the seller, buyer (me) and the Account Number (presumably the seller's ownership account) and reads in pertinent part as follows:
> 
> *"is exercising its option to purchase your above-referenced Vacation Ownership Interest." *(note-it doesn't state who is exercising the option). _*"As stated in VSE Villas Arizona, Inc. 'Right of First Refusal' of the Vacation Ownership Declaration for your resort, the Developer has the right and option to purchase your Vacation Ownership Interest at the same price and with the same terms as contained in the 'Offer to Buy' presented by {prospective purchaser}."*
> _
> The rest of the letter addresses new closing documents to be sent to the seller and the timing of the closing, nothing material to the Developer's rights under the Declaration, with I presume is the CC&Rs for the resort.  I have asked for those documents and we will see if they will provide them.  The letter is from Vistana Signature Experiences, Inc., but no actual signature.



Ask for a copy of the documentation which provides the right for VSE Villas Arizona to perform this action.

I was searching for this entity and ran across this interesting doc:

https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1434620/000155837017001185/ilg-20161231ex2110633e8.htm


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## controller1 (Aug 12, 2019)

DavidnRobin said:


> This is where it should be in WKV CCRs - nothing about a ROFR for WKV.
> 
> View attachment 13388 Someone is not telling the truth - or proceeded forward against the WKV CCRs.



And that notification would not have the selling price hence it would be impossible for such notification to serve as an initiation of an ROFR.


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## dnmasters (Aug 12, 2019)

DavidnRobin said:


> As stated above - the words ‘Right of First Refusal’ do not exist in WKV CCRs. (or VSN Disclosure Docs).
> It does in WKORV CCRs
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I have requested evidence (CC&R section, Board Resolution) to support their claim of ROFR and we will see what happens.  Unfortunately I am not dealing directly with Marriott/Vistana, just a closing agent who has stated that she had experienced the exercise of the ROFR for WKV previously, including prior to the merger/acquisition by Marriott.  Maybe it wasn't challenged before, or those effected weren't on TUG.


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## SteelerGal (Aug 13, 2019)

Ken555 said:


> Ask for a copy of the documentation which provides the right for VSE Villas Arizona to perform this action.
> 
> I was searching for this entity and ran across this interesting doc:
> 
> ...


I researched as well and I wonder if ILG added an addendum.  I understand the legality however the unaware would never know to push back.
I am sure the letter is a MVC formulaic letter for the closing company of the buyer while another letter was sent to the seller from their closer.


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## dioxide45 (Aug 13, 2019)

Is VSE VIllas Arizona Inc even the name of the association at WKV? Could someone confirm on their deed?


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## DavidnRobin (Aug 13, 2019)

SteelerGal said:


> I researched as well and I wonder if ILG added an addendum.  I understand the legality however the unaware would never know to push back.
> I am sure the letter is a MVC formulaic letter for the closing company of the buyer while another letter was sent to the seller from their closer.



There would have to be notice to the HOA if an addendum to the CCRs. This notification is in the CCRs, and an amendment would need to be created - as done with other CCR addendums that are listed as part of the recent CCR update (March 2019).


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## DavidnRobin (Aug 13, 2019)

*IMPORTANT NOTE:
The WKV CCRs being discussed by me are actually SDO CCRs.

I do not own SDO, but when I went to governing documents for the WKV on the VSE Dashboard - it is the SDO CCRs that apparently is listed (and downloaded).  I just saw this when I saw the villa layouts.*


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## DavidnRobin (Aug 13, 2019)

dioxide45 said:


> Is VSE VIllas Arizona Inc even the name of the association at WKV? Could someone confirm on their deed?



This post made me go to the WKV CCRs and check on name - that is how I realized that these were the SDO CCRs. What a screw up by VSE...

Anyone have SDO HOA access? Maybe the WKV CCRs are there?

I recall a WKV being Sonoran someting-or-other, and that is how the filename comes across, but it is the SDO CCRs. Bizarre...

The file name is Scottsdale_Sonoran_Gov_Docs - SDOs name is Scottsdale Pinnacle.


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## SteelerGal (Aug 13, 2019)

It’s 
Scottsdale Sonoran Villas Condominiums.

SDO is Scottsdale Pinnacle.


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## CPNY (Aug 13, 2019)

Maybe the broker sent a fake ROFR letter because they wanted to buy the unit for themselves


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## SteelerGal (Aug 13, 2019)

I will have to check after I get my Crew to bed. We own both properties.


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## dioxide45 (Aug 13, 2019)

DavidnRobin said:


> This post made me go to the WKV CCRs and check on name - that is how I realized that these were the SDO CCRs. What a screw up by VSE...
> 
> Anyone have SDO HOA access? Maybe the WKV CCRs are there?
> 
> ...


https://recorder.maricopa.gov/UnOfficialDocs/pdf/20020790610.pdf


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## dioxide45 (Aug 13, 2019)

If there is some kind of change or addendum to the condo declaration, I am failing to find it on the Maricopa County website.


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## DavidnRobin (Aug 14, 2019)

SteelerGal said:


> It’s
> Scottsdale Sonoran Villas Condominiums.
> 
> SDO is Scottsdale Pinnacle.



Correct. 

I have looked at the WKV (Scottsdale Sonoran) CCRs before - I have a copy stored on BU drive - there was no ROFR when looked into this year’s ago.

The SDO CCRs mistakenly put in Governing Doc for the WKV HOA has the correct file name, but wrong document.
How embarrassing...

Be interesting to see what CCRs they have for the SDO HOA Governing Docs.



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## DavidnRobin (Aug 17, 2019)

I contacted VSN/VSE about the incorrect CCRs for WKV on the Vistana Dashboard, and asked the question about the reported ROFR for WKV.

I got an immediate reply that it would be looked into, and they would get back to me.


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## DavidnRobin (Aug 19, 2019)

DavidnRobin said:


> I contacted VSN/VSE about the incorrect CCRs for WKV on the Vistana Dashboard, and asked the question about the reported ROFR for WKV.
> 
> I got an immediate reply that it would be looked into, and they would get back to me.
> 
> ...


Correct CCRs now uploaded to WKV Association Governance Docs.

*No ROFR for WKV!*


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## DavidnRobin (Aug 19, 2019)

dioxide45 said:


> If there is some kind of change or addendum to the condo declaration, I am failing to find it on the Maricopa County website.



WKV CCRs now uploaded to Governance Docs on Dashboard - most recent copy (June 2019)

No ROFR for WKV clearly stated.  Someone is wrong here - either Marriott or Broker.


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## dioxide45 (Aug 19, 2019)

Someone needs to ask the HOA to find out if they amended something. I suspect bad info from Marriott ROFR to the closing agents/brokers if Vistana ROFR has merged departments with the Marriott side.


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## dioxide45 (Aug 19, 2019)

DavidnRobin said:


> WKV CCRs now uploaded to Governance Docs on Dashboard - most recent copy (June 2019)
> 
> No ROFR for WKV clearly stated.  Someone is wrong here - either Marriott or Broker.


Do they upload amendments to the CC&R documents?


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## CPNY (Aug 19, 2019)

dioxide45 said:


> Someone needs to ask the HOA to find out if they amended something. I suspect bad info from Marriott ROFR to the closing agents/brokers if Vistana ROFR has merged departments with the Marriott side.


I’d have to agree. I called today for something related to interval and the CSR at VSE gave me completely wrong information. I had to politely ask her to double check because my understanding was different (thanks to tug and users like you). After a brief hold, she got back on the line and gave me the correct info and had the matter taken care of the way it should have been automatically. Point is, wrong information being given most likely because of the turnover or familiarity of other systems in the company is a very strong possibility.


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## SabresFan (Aug 19, 2019)

dnmast1 said:


> I have requested evidence (CC&R section, Board Resolution) to support their claim of ROFR and we will see what happens.  Unfortunately I am not dealing directly with Marriott/Vistana, just a closing agent who has stated that she had experienced the exercise of the ROFR for WKV previously, including prior to the merger/acquisition by Marriott.  Maybe it wasn't challenged before, or those effected weren't on TUG.


It's also possible the broker and seller don't care much one way or the other - they get paid the same amount whether you buy it or Marriott buys it.  So they're not likely to push back hard against it.


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## Ken555 (Aug 20, 2019)

DavidnRobin said:


> Correct CCRs now uploaded to WKV Association Governance Docs.
> 
> *No ROFR for WKV!*
> View attachment 13499



Thanks! It doesn’t get much clearer than this. 


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## CPNY (Aug 21, 2019)

vacationtime1 said:


> You should consider the Kierland shoulder season small one bedroom unit.  I own two of them, I used to own two SDO one bedroom units, and they seem to trade the same (I was almost always using the Vistana-to-Vistana preference).
> 
> Kierland is mandatory.  No ROFR.
> 
> ...


That 604 is without the VSN fee I assume? I’m seeing listings on redweek but the maint fees are all over the place from 789 to 950 up to 1100 for a one bedroom. I also want a solid trader, mandatory so I don’t have to pay an additional II account fee. I’d prob unload my EOY 81K 2 bedroom SVV. Maint fee might be slightly higher on the WKV One bedroom 44K SO.


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## vacationtime1 (Aug 21, 2019)

CPNY said:


> That 604 is without the VSN fee I assume? I’m seeing listings on redweek but the maint fees are all over the place from 789 to 950 up to 1100 for a one bedroom. I also want a solid trader, mandatory so I don’t have to pay an additional II account fee. I’d prob unload my EOY 81K 2 bedroom SVV. Maint fee might be slightly higher on the WKV One bedroom 44K SO.



2019 MF = $604 for the small side, $961 for the large side (i.e. the 44000 unit), and $1,565 for the entire two bedroom.  Any other MF number is either old and/or includes VSE fees and/or includes ARDA dues (developers' lobby).


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## CPNY (Aug 21, 2019)

vacationtime1 said:


> 2019 MF = $604 for the small side, $961 for the large side (i.e. the 44000 unit), and $1,565 for the entire two bedroom.  Any other MF number is either old and/or includes VSE fees and/or includes ARDA dues (developers' lobby).


Thanks, I have no idea what the ARDA dues are. Would I pay that if I picked up a resale? I’m looking at a smaller deluxe unit to trade. Prob better than an SDO one bedroom since I wouldn’t have to pay anymore VSN fees or any additional II fees. Would you agree?


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## vacationtime1 (Aug 21, 2019)

CPNY said:


> Thanks, I have no idea what the ARDA dues are. Would I pay that if I picked up a resale? I’m looking at a smaller deluxe unit to trade. Prob better than an SDO one bedroom since I wouldn’t have to pay anymore VSN fees or any additional II fees. Would you agree?



ARDA dues are $5 - $10/unit, are entirely voluntary, are billed such that you must opt of of paying, _and something you should never pay_.  ARDA is the developers' lobby; there is an owners subsection, but when the two are in conflict, the owners lose.

I used to own two SDO traders (small side; one bedroom); I now own two Kierland shoulder season units (small side; one bedroom; 37000 SO's).  Either can be obtained for free, MF's are about the same, the mandatory VSE includes an Interval membership, and because I own five mandatory units (omg), the VSE fee is "free".


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## CPNY (Aug 21, 2019)

vacationtime1 said:


> ARDA dues are $5 - $10/unit, are entirely voluntary, are billed such that you must opt of of paying, _and something you should never pay_.  ARDA is the developers' lobby; there is an owners subsection, but when the two are in conflict, the owners lose.
> 
> I used to own two SDO traders (small side; one bedroom); I now own two Kierland shoulder season units (small side; one bedroom; 37000 SO's).  Either can be obtained for free, MF's are about the same, the mandatory VSE includes an Interval membership, and because I own five mandatory units (omg), the VSE fee is "free".


Aye, I’m up to 5 too looking to add a 6th LOL.


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## DannyTS (Aug 22, 2019)

We own SVV Bella (mandatory) and we have been very happy with it. I have decided not to add mandatory weeks to our portfolio after the merge and we only bought a Vistana trader and another Vistana resort where we like to go. I do not like the incertitude with mandatory and the premium is less justified than before IMO. If they start an overlay next year the mandatory can be winners if nothing changes or if they automatically get to trade in DC (less likely). But they can be losers if Marriott offers mass enrollment to the Vistana week owners. Not only the availability on SO will suffer, they will just become less interesting for a lot of current Vistana owners who will suddenly have enough weeks enrolled that they will not need to buy any new mandatory.


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## DavidnRobin (Aug 22, 2019)

The only uncertainty of VSN Mandatory is here on TUG based on pure conjecture.

There would have to be a massive change (elimination of VSN) to eliminate Mandatory usage - and a complete change of all VSE CCRs.


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## CPNY (Aug 22, 2019)

DannyTS said:


> We own SVV Bella (mandatory) and we have been very happy with it. I have decided not to add mandatory weeks to our portfolio after the merge and we only bought a Vistana trader and another Vistana resort where we like to go. I do not like the incertitude with mandatory and the premium is less justified than before IMO. If they start an overlay next year the mandatory can be winners if nothing changes or if they automatically get to trade in DC (less likely). But they can be losers if Marriott offers mass enrollment to the Vistana week owners. Not only the availability on SO will suffer, they will just become less interesting for a lot of current Vistana owners who will suddenly have enough weeks enrolled that they will not need to buy any new mandatory.


I own mandatory because I like to reserve weeks in the VSN and would most likely continue to do so, even if I could book MVC resorts in an overlay system. To your point, I’ve been thinking about a trader unit now just to exchange in interval. 1. With the hopes of II priority across all brands, 2. To not have to eat up staroptions for other resorts in the VSN. A small SDO should let me trade into WKOVN for much less than using 81K or 148K star options


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## pchung6 (Aug 22, 2019)

CPNY said:


> A small SDO should let me trade into WKOVN for much less than using 81K or 148K star options



You will only get 1br in WKORV/N. If Nanea bulk deposit continues, which I doubt it will, you will get 2br.


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## CPNY (Aug 22, 2019)

pchung6 said:


> You will only get 1br in WKORV/N. If Nanea bulk deposit continues, which I doubt it will, you will get 2br.


Would a WKV 1 bedroom pull more than an SDO 1 bed or a SVV plat 2 bed?

One bedrooms are fine. If I can get a two with an upgrade fee so be it.


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## vacationtime1 (Aug 23, 2019)

CPNY said:


> *Would a WKV 1 bedroom pull more than an SDO 1 bed or a SVV plat 2 bed?*
> 
> One bedrooms are fine. If I can get a two with an upgrade fee so be it.



I don't think so.  In fact, I suspect the SVV plat 2 bed would see more.

I used to own a couple of SDO small side one bedroom units and a two bedroom non-lockout SBP.  About 95% of the time, they saw the same stuff (the two bedroom unit occasionally saw two bedrooms units that the SDO units did not; this was back in the days of the bulk banks of Hawaii units) .

I dumped the SBP unit because overall it was not worth the incremental cost in MF's for our use pattern.


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## CPNY (Aug 23, 2019)

vacationtime1 said:


> I don't think so.  In fact, I suspect the SVV plat 2 bed would see more.
> 
> I used to own a couple of SDO small side one bedroom units and a two bedroom non-lockout SBP.  About 95% of the time, they saw the same stuff (the two bedroom unit occasionally saw two bedrooms units that the SDO units did not; this was back in the days of the bulk banks of Hawaii units) .
> 
> I dumped the SBP unit because overall it was not worth the incremental cost in MF's for our use pattern.


Thanks. That helps me decide if should move an EOY 81K SVV plat 2 in favor of a 1 bedroom deluxe WKV for trading. in both cases I’d get star options.


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## carpie99 (Aug 23, 2019)

My 1 bedroom SVV Bella got me a 1 bedroom at WKORVN in 2020


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## tshd (Sep 4, 2019)

CPNY said:


> Thanks. That helps me decide if should move an EOY 81K SVV plat 2 in favor of a 1 bedroom deluxe WKV for trading. in both cases I’d get star options.


In II are you able to do a dummy search to see what the two one bedroom sides of your SVV can possibly trade for (assuming it's a l/o)?


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## CPNY (Sep 7, 2019)

tshd said:


> In II are you able to do a dummy search to see what the two one bedroom sides of your SVV can possibly trade for (assuming it's a l/o)?


Yes. All the same units


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## tshd (Sep 7, 2019)

CPNY said:


> Yes. All the same units


thanks.  I'm wondering why buy mandatory if a SDO unit can trade for WKORV and also then why are people giving away SDO units for free or next to nothing?


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## vacationtime1 (Sep 7, 2019)

tshd said:


> thanks.  I'm wondering why buy mandatory if a SDO unit can trade for WKORV and also then why are people giving away SDO units for free or next to nothing?



Higher probability of success, ability to better pinpoint travel dates, greater ability to confirm trades sooner (resulting in lower airfares), and more generally, the ability to reserve what I want rather than what Vistana chose to deposit into Interval.


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## CalGalTraveler (Sep 8, 2019)

vacationtime1 said:


> Higher probability of success,...and more generally, the ability to reserve what I want rather than what Vistana chose to deposit into Interval.



This. Many people were buying inexpensive traders in RCI with the expectation of trading into Disney. Over the past 5 years. Disney property deposits into RCI have dwindled. Now only see periodic sightings of their least desirable property and units no bigger than a 1 bedroom. II has more choices with more hotel branded TS than RCI but no guarantees as MVC now owns II and may restructure.


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## SteelerGal (Sep 8, 2019)

tshd said:


> thanks.  I'm wondering why buy mandatory if a SDO unit can trade for WKORV and also then why are people giving away SDO units for free or next to nothing?


Only Mandatory resorts have StarOptions attached.  All others much use II or RCI to trade w/in Vistana and other Systems.


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## SteelerGal (Sep 8, 2019)

CalGalTraveler said:


> This. Many people were buying inexpensive traders in RCI with the expectation of trading into Disney. Over the past 5 years. Disney property deposits in RCI have dwindled. Now only see periodic sightings of their least desirable property and units no bigger than a 1 bedroom. II has more choices with more hotel branded TS than RCI but no guarantees as MVC now owns II and may restructure.


Since MVC runs II, it would be nice if they stopped the bulk and allowed owners to pick the week they want to deposit.  I know it is pie in the sky since MVC uses II for MVC for trading.


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## CalGalTraveler (Sep 8, 2019)

If flexible-stay, view priority and unit selection is important to you SO Mandatory is better.

If you don't care about these attributes and want the absolute cheapest option (and enjoy the thrill of the hunt), then trading II may be a better pick.


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## VacationForever (Sep 8, 2019)

SteelerGal said:


> Since MVC runs II, it would be nice if they stopped the bulk and allowed owners to pick the week they want to deposit.  I know it is pie in the sky since MVC uses II for MVC for trading.


I prefer Vistana blended week deposits within the same season so that there is not an additional stress to book a desirable week right when booking becomes available.


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## DannyTS (Sep 8, 2019)

VacationForever said:


> I prefer Vistana blended week deposits within the same season so that there is not an additional stress to book a desirable week right when booking becomes available.


I agree, the fact that you can deposit as late as December 31st of the current usage year and as early as January 1st for the next usage year without waiting for the "perfect" reservation is great. Besides, is there any evidence that the trading power is diminished this way?


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## VacationForever (Sep 8, 2019)

No e


DannyTS said:


> I agree, the fact that you can deposit as late as December 31st of the current usage year and as early as January 1st for the next usage year without waiting for the "perfect" reservation is great. Besides, is there any evidence that the trading power is diminished this way?


No evidence.


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## tshd (Sep 9, 2019)

VacationForever said:


> No e
> 
> No evidence.





DannyTS said:


> I agree, the fact that you can deposit as late as December 31st of the current usage year and as early as January 1st for the next usage year without waiting for the "perfect" reservation is great. Besides, is there any evidence that the trading power is diminished this way?


Are you talking about when you deposit to II?  Can you explain this a little more please, I'm not familiar at all with how Vistana trades in II.  Thanks


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## VacationForever (Sep 9, 2019)

tshd said:


> Are you talking about when you deposit to II?  Can you explain this a little more please, I'm not familiar at all with how Vistana trades in II.  Thanks


Vistana deposits a blended week in the season owned, unless it is a true fixed week that does not float then the actual week is deposited.  It does not matter how far in advance you deposit although I usually deposit a whole year before so that I get 3 years to exchange into a week and resort that I want.


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## CPNY (Sep 9, 2019)

tshd said:


> thanks.  I'm wondering why buy mandatory if a SDO unit can trade for WKORV and also then why are people giving away SDO units for free or next to nothing?


Personally Maui isn’t appealing to me being from the east coast. I prefer star options to book harborside or St. John’s.


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## CalGalTraveler (Sep 9, 2019)

CPNY said:


> Personally Maui isn’t appealing to me being from the east coast. I prefer star options to book harborside or St. John’s.



Completely understandable. St. John has one of the prettiest and one of my most favorite beaches on the planet. However the plane ride and time zone changes from the west coast are simply too brutal. Taking 2 days to travel and adjust out of a limited vacation week is not worth it. When we are retired, we will return.

It's also very expensive to fly a family longer distances.

If we lived on the East Coast, the Caribbean would be a no brainer.


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## jjking42 (Sep 9, 2019)

jjking42 said:


> I am trying not to buy another timeshare but the bug has bitten and I have the itch.
> My very first timeshare presentation was Westin Kierland  many years ago when it was brand new. I  liked the program and the resorts. I did not buy from Westin but found TUG and starting buying other resales. Since then I cant count them all but I have had Marriotts , HGVC, Wyndham, and lots of independents timeshares but never a Starwood.
> 
> Mandatory resort will cost me some money up front but has star options and a voluntary I can probably get for free but will end up paying II exchange fees on top of MF.
> ...



Interesting how long these threads can stay alive and how they change.

Since I started this thread I have purchased 3 resale weeks 

WKV for Star options
HPP for HRC points 
Wyndham Canterbury to add more low MF points to my account 

I still want more star options and HRC points but have more weeks than I can use now. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## vacationtime1 (Sep 9, 2019)

jjking42 said:


> I still want more star options and HRC points but have more weeks than I can use now.



You have the disease.


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## CPNY (Sep 10, 2019)

CalGalTraveler said:


> Completely understandable. St. John has one of the prettiest and one of my most favorite beaches on the planet. However the plane ride and time zone changes from the west coast are simply too brutal. Taking 2 days to travel and adjust out of a limited vacation week is not worth it. When we are retired, we will return.
> 
> It's also very expensive to fly a family longer distances.
> 
> If we lived on the East Coast, the Caribbean would be a no brainer.


Yup. That’s my same reasoning about Maui LOL.


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## tshd (Sep 24, 2019)

jjking42 said:


> Interesting how long these threads can stay alive and how they change.
> 
> Since I started this thread I have purchased 3 resale weeks
> 
> ...



You've been busy!!  Which type of WKV did you get and would you be willing to share where you found it and price?  Can pm me if that is more appropriate. Thanks!


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