# mayan palace resorts are the gold of the mexican t-s world     and the reasons why!



## sally (Feb 6, 2006)

This thread is for people who would like an honest opinion of the mayan palace properties.THE PROPERTIES, not the sales people..witch we all know, many here find frighteningly aggressive.I have posted many threads here sharing what I like and (dislike) about these properties, compared to other resorts we have visited. Check posts if interested.I have found an unfair slant on the mayan resorts here, based on thier sales force.What I seek to correct with this thread is a fair assesment in one (capsule) of the properties, service staff and policies themselves, plus the surrounding vacation area.  I do not work for the mayan palace,I just hate SPIN.If it is from our goverment or a disgruntled person of a sales presentation ,spin is spin and it makes me think that some people think that they are so much smarter then everyone else! Positives and negatives of the resorts themselves.This would be great! (hey I like run on sentences!)We love these resorts and just hate to see so many dis them, from lousy sales expieriences. 
........sally


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## echoal (Feb 6, 2006)

If you go to TripAdvisor.com and read the negative comments, most are from people who attended the timeshare presentations.  People who stayed at the resort and said No to TS sales pitch had a much more positive view of the resort.  The biggest complaint I seem to gather from them (people who can say No) was the food was so so.


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## CaliDave (Feb 6, 2006)

I dislike the cold pools, the EXTREMELY expensive food, the long walk to get anywhere, it's too far from town, and the beach at the Riviera Maya property. Other than that it's a great resort


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## california-bighorn (Feb 6, 2006)

What I love best is that they are so cheap to rent and there is so much availibility. ( I think I expressed myself without a run on sentence.) 
Marty


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## CaliDave (Feb 6, 2006)

california-bighorn said:
			
		

> What I love best is that they are so cheap to rent and there is so much availibility. ( I think I expressed myself without a run on sentence.)
> Marty



You are right.
I forgot that its so easy to get an exchange. I can pull Grand Mayan with a South Africa week. Total cost under $500 for a week in a 2bd.


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## T_R_Oglodyte (Feb 6, 2006)

I sent my wife and daughter to the Grand Mayan Riviera for Presidents Week a few years ago using a $99 developer bonus week from RCI. Can't beat that!!

Plus it gave her a perfect way to shut off the timeshare flies "I'm married and my spouse isn't with me."


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## sally (Feb 7, 2006)

*now we are all on the correct path!*

keep the thoughts coming! I can recall 1)  great proximity to area activities in riviera maya,eg.tulum, xel ha,cenotes,xcergerat,cozumel,and playa del carmen.2)great hot tub.3)really attentive maids and 4) nice swim up bars.

        sally


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## rja (Feb 7, 2006)

The Mayan Palace online reservation system is very easy to use and well done. I've also found their phone customer service to be friendly and efficient.


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## Blondie (Feb 7, 2006)

Sally- "Lousy sales experiences" are not specific to the Mayan Resorts. In fact, many folks come here fuming about being taken by other salesmen at other resorts and for huge sums of money. Therefore, I would think a lousy sales experience- be it for $20,000 or $30,000 or the amount you paid- is enough to sour folks on timesharing forever. You, however, have not only not soured, you are thrilled. That makes you very special here. I do intend to visit these resorts one day, and I will use my South Africa week, purchased for $365 and main fees of $200 to do it. So, for my cost, I will likely love the Mayan Palace resorts as much as you do!


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## sally (Feb 7, 2006)

*bravo..blondie!*

I admit ..you have me,I AM thrilled and not-soured like you say so many here are.I did come to the conclusion a long time ago that we are only here on this earth for so many  days and those days are becoming less and less all the time !why not spend what time you have left ,thrilled and enjoying the people you have around you! I have found that the mayan resorts supply the perfect setting and location to do just this.

When you are dead and gone ,how will people remember us? Will it be thrilled and fun to be around? or sour and pissy,bitching about some aggressive time share sales jerk that tried to rip us off!

tick- tock ..the days are flying by,get out there and have some fun!  
Everyone loves a great deal,I am happy for you and hope you stay in the GRAND units ,when you do stay at the mayan palace!
Perhaps you will see that life,and how you live it is  a little more precious ,then a few bucks.

sally


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## Sandy (Feb 7, 2006)

I, for one, am READY to get to the Riviera Maya in early March for my spring break. I did not get a one bedroom, only a hotel unit. But that is not souring me on the upcoming visit. 

I know that we will stay at the RM, and not the GM, which everyone says is better/nicer/more modern, etc.  But so what?  I am concerned with sitting by the pool, enjoying the food and the festivities at the resort, getting into Playa as so many have suggested.  

I fully intend to have a ball. I have not yet decided whether to take the Timeshare tour, my husband absolutely HATES those things.  

The ONLY way I would even consider the T/s tour is if they can upgrade us to the GM. I think my husband might even go for that, but the resort says they are quite full that week.  If no upgrade, then probably forget the timeshare tour.

Whatever we decide, even if they are high pressure, it certainly will not destroy our visit.


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## echoal (Feb 7, 2006)

The MP resorts is a cut above many of the resorts, resorts in Hawaii are comparable.
I am going to compare the MP to a car.  If you can afford a Benz you would go to the dealer and get one, there might be a special on some models but not often.  The question is (are you Benz person of a KIA person trying to be in a Benz).  And to justify yourself, you gripe about the resort.  Deals are great but is it a great deal or is it what you can afford.
Some people are overwhelmed with the size and beauty and feel that is where they have to be and do buy and later regret it when the numbers start adding up.  The timeshare sharks don’t help by telling people they can rent their unit for $2k or better.  I love the MP and I did go to a presentation, bought a 2BR unit and we are enjoying it to the max.  We were toll we can buy an extra unit and rent it, was not interested and said no.    We were in Acapulco and went to a sale pitch just for updates about MP, we mentioned no sale just info and he agreed, we saw GM and the question was asked could we use MP to get into GM, he said no and the obvious was how do we get in.  We went to his table he gave us a price and we said no, got another and now we are GM owners.  Happy and contented.  For kicks and giggles we might look at what Mayan Island have to offer down the road.


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## sally (Feb 7, 2006)

*most important!*

SAFETY!, the resorts have the safest security I have ever come across in mexico.In fact, the resort is so large it is like a world of its own.For childeren and teenagers this is the type of resort you want to be at. mexico can have its seemy side to it, with alot of desperate people.I like the more remote locations for this reason.Less crowding and plenty of hard working security.You just do not walk into these places, like so many other resorts in Mexico.plus...drinks that actually contain booze in them.Not your watered down versions you see so many times 

sally


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## echoal (Feb 7, 2006)

Sally you are right MP do have great security.  I was at Island Seas in Freeport one year before the hurricane and there were kids playing catch with a golf ball in the pool, security only stopped them after someone got hit in the head while lying on a lounge chair. MP you don't have to worry about horse play by the pool while you are reading or soaking in the sun. No boom boxes and or wild teenagers, that is what I call R&R.


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## sally (Feb 8, 2006)

*echoal..*

I was thinking more of not being sure your kids are going to come back from the beach or the other end of the HUGE pools.The mayans are surely not a spring break for teenagers partying hardy type of place, although they are more of an adult resort that is kid friendly.We had no worries about are childerens safety,as this is one thing that I feel strongly about.You can not relax if locals selling stuff are swarming around you.

sally


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## Monica (Feb 8, 2006)

*Me, too.*

I'm a thrilled owner also!  No sour grapes for us!  We vacation almost exclusively in Acapulco.  My home away from home!  I've never been to the Riviera location and don't know when I'll make it.  I almost can't stand the thought of not being at the MP-Acapulco for vacations!


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## jules54 (Feb 8, 2006)

Sales staff not considered. The Mayan Palace resorts are great!!! They are very large that is true, so if you want boutique these are not for you(look I made a poem). I have found the service excellent. The food might seem pricey to some people. The food is still cheaper then five-star resorts in the US. Room service is great. I do not own Mayan Palace, but often check out the resale prices. The rooms are grand and the maids come twice a day. The Grand Mayan units are even nicer with more services. I have stayed at the Maya Riveria resort 4 times and enjoyed it more each time. Also the Puerto Penasco mayan resort. Very nice, also large and far away from town. I love the town of Playa Del Carmen so much I ended up buying timeshare there on my last visit(resale). but this is because I wanted something in Playa. If I wanted a resort vacation with spa and top notch service, but also many transportation options I would stay at mayan palace in a heartbeat. 
Note: Everyone bragging about getting in to GM with their cheap weeks. That won't last forever. Everything changes in the timeshare game. The longer the resorts are selling the more owners there will be and weeks for RCI and SFX will dry up. I am not suggesting you buy from the developer, but resale will always be available.


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## echoal (Feb 8, 2006)

*Monica.*



			
				Monica said:
			
		

> I'm a thrilled owner also!  No sour grapes for us!  We vacation almost exclusively in Acapulco.  My home away from home!  I've never been to the Riviera location and don't know when I'll make it.  I almost can't stand the thought of not being at the MP-Acapulco for vacations!



Monica you need to go to the MP in Nuevo Vallarta, it makes Acapulco look a dog house. They are saying the one in Cabo is going to be better than NV, can't wait to visit.


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## Monica (Feb 8, 2006)

*Been there.*

I've been to NV.  Sorry to disagree, but there is no way I'd describe Acapulco as a dog house!  It's just not new.  But that is changing.  They've already torn down 1/2 of the 2-bedroom building and started the tower.  As long as it's clean and not worn out, I don't care about the rooms too much.  It's the pool, amenities, beach, friends and the city of Acapulco that I go for!


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## sally (Feb 9, 2006)

*A progressive resort!*

This is one of the main reasons we purchased the grand units.As time unfolds, present grand mayan owners are going to be able to visit new exotic locales.Cabo san Lucas promises to be every bit as outstanding as the other flag ship mayan properties! Also as I have heard Costa rica mayan palace will be coming on line in a few short years! You think riviera maya has A lot to offer..just wait until you see costa rica!(had A friend who vacationed there recently).I agree... as the (rabid) sales force presses relentlessly onward, few rci traders will find open weeks in the grand, or the resorts themselves for that matter.Very few people look ahead more then A couple years.So many here brag about how easy it is to get into these resorts, I have to laugh...It is almost like the internet stocks, everbody thought that was the place to put your money. In the end,it was the greater fool thing happening.These resorts are the opposite, they hold great value, but are not in favor, but that too will change as they continue to be sold out.I see a massive inflationary wave coming that our government will not be able to avoid.Things of value (such as a bought and payed for top of the line premium resort week,will be more costly,as the American dollar will not purchase a
s much abroad..imho.. darn it! I sound like a salesperson! I am not, just some one who looks ahead a little

sally


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## tonyg (Feb 9, 2006)

Perhaps more like fool's gold.


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## sally (Feb 9, 2006)

*tonyg*

perhaps you are the smart and witty one here....


perhaps you are not!


sally


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## Blondie (Feb 9, 2006)

Well, what many smart Tuggers have learned is that a bought and paid for "top of the line premium resort week" need not cost more than a few hundred to a few thousand dollars. Now that is what I call a thing of value!!


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## california-bighorn (Feb 9, 2006)

tonyg is absolutely correct!!!! You can purchase a MP for a fraction of the developers price and with all the "extra" weeks members get conned into, you can rent a MP unit for the cost of maintenance fees (or less) without a huge initial expenditure. I'm of the belief more MP rooms (and other resorts also) will become available. I'm seeing more and more people who buy on a whim, then find out they can't sell nor rent for what they were told, so they just try to rent for the cost of their MF's. When a friend of mine had to suddenly change vacation plans this year, there were lots of MP rooms available, but little else. For trade, he used a timeshare that he bought for around $250 on ebay.  Now that is value.
If my stocks follow the value of MP timeshares I'll never be able to retire. 
Enjoy your resort. That's what it's for. Many happy vacations. In fact some day we may meet by a MP pool. You, with your expense room and me with my cheap rental. 
Marty
PS   Maybe I'm just secretly jealous I didn't get to pay $20k for a MP.


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## Ellis2ca (Feb 9, 2006)

*The Gold of the Mexican T.S.*

Sally, congratulations for your Grand Mayan purchase.  I stayed a week at the Mayan Palace in Acapulco about 7 years ago.  The service was excellent, and the installations were all first class.  If the Grand Mayan is even better than that, then it has to be fabulous.  

But... "the Gold of the Mexican Time Shares"... I think not... The Gold cannot be an outfit that treats people the way they treat their guests.  I refer to the person who said that half of his family was at the Grand Mayan and half was downgraded to the Mayan Palace, and then they were not allowed onto the grounds of the Grand Mayan.  This is unbelievable.  You mean, you are not allowed to have guests in your home (or timeshare Villa) even if they are your family?

We are both timeshare owners, so I would like to ask you a few questions, as a timeshare owner to a timeshare owner, because that is what TUG is for... 

Don't these bad reports make you feel that the value of your investment at the Grand Mayan has decreased?  

Can you guarantee that if I or anybody else rent a week from you at the Grand Mayan we would not be downgraded to the Mayan Palace?    

To tell you the truth, even if you would tell me that you guarantee it, I would not rent from you.  If R.C.I. doesn't have the power to get them to honor their reservations, I think you don't have the power to guarantee that I would actually get it, either.   Maybe they won't downgrade owners (for a while) but after reading what happened to others, as an outsider I would quite frankly be afraid to rent or trade into any Grand Mayan, anywhere... There have already been too many reports that this has happened time and again, so I am not going to risk getting a stomach ache over something like this.  

And maybe others feel the same way I feel, too.  So right there, the value of your investment has already decreased, because you are already going to have a harder time to rent or trade your weeks than I will, or than you yourself should have.  When you purchased, I think you expected them to honor their reservations so that you could honor yours, and not to bait and switch on anybody at the last moment, and maybe that is why you paid as much as you did.  

I would consider it a disaster to my patrimony if such a thing ever happened to any guest at any Royal Resort, and I would never buy another week again... in fact, I would want to sell all of my weeks, and find a timeshare whose management does not do these dirty tricks.  Fortunately, even though the Royal Resorts are not as luxurious as the Grand Mayan or the Mayan Palace, I have never heard any complaint like this in nearly 30 years as a Royal Resort owner.  

So... I really hope you enjoy your stay at the Grand Mayan when you go... It really is Grand, if you are one of the lucky ones that does not get shafted.  

But when you are there, think of the people that have been mistreated with their reservation, and tell the managers or the salesmen at the Grand Mayan that they have made their gold lose some of its glitter, and your investment lose some of its value.

It won't do any good, but tell it to them.

- Ellis


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## sally (Feb 10, 2006)

*ellis and others*

I feel like A broken record...As I stated on another thread,the mayan chain is the newest, growing,largest most luxurious resort chain in latin america.We feel that is what we want to be a part of.Large amounts of wealth are being transformed into what I think is the best places to vacation, more money ,more new resorts,more money more ammenities.Follow the money!  As far as trade goes.. WE WILL NEVER BE SHAFTED OUT OF OUR GRAND UNIT!,that we bought from the developer.Owners are always at the top of the list.I repeat..CAN ANY ONE TELL ME OF A GRAND OWNER THAT PURCHASED FROM THE DEVELOPER THAT WAS SHAFTED OUT OF THE GRAND INTO THE REGULAR MAYAN UNITS?...I did not think so.If you look into some of the bitching going on here, you will see that all mayan bookings are rated differently.You will see some are rci exchange, some flex weeks, some e bay rebuys.These are the people bitching.Read the charter that the developer  provides at closing.You get what you pay for.I am not concerned about renting or ratings as we use our week each year.We found the best unit in the best resort chain and we are THRILLED with what we puchased.If anyone wants to have a guarantee they will have to pony up the cash as we did.So much for enjoying the mayan grand units on the cheap! If you get lucky and get into these units for what ever reason consider yourself fortunate.Time going forward will make future grand stays even harder to secure.As the sales people and the reputation go...I could care less. There are A lot of worse things in life . THE PROPERTY IS WHAT YOU ARE BUYING and dealing with rci for so many years purchasing the top tier of this resort was the only way to go imho.

sally


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## Sandy (Feb 10, 2006)

After reading through these posts as an interested observer (we will visit Riviera Maya in March as traders), I can only conclude that reasonable minds will always differ. 

I agree that the value of any resort does diminish if an owner tries to rent or trade and receives something less than what was paid for or expected.  This is why folks buy only the top floor, ocean view, corner unit, etc, etc,  so that they are guaranteed to receive this exact unit when they arrive for their planned holiday. 

Some resorts will not, or cannot guarantee that the owner will get that precise unit, especially if it is a floating week resort or a points resort.  In that case, there might be two or more owners demanding the same unit, and this cannot occur.  Someone might have to adjust their expectations. 

But RCI exchangers have no such expectation. They are assigned units at the discretion of the resort.  Owners have priority as they should.  

So the different perspectives reflected in this dialogue only highlight that some of us paid top dollar, some paid regular retail, others paid discounted prices, and some even paid wholesale or liquidation prices for whatever resort we own.  We all come to TUG to learn more about timesharing and its many aspects.  What all of us have in common, I think, is that we enjoy great vacationing at nice resorts however we achieve this.


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## T_R_Oglodyte (Feb 10, 2006)

Sandy said:
			
		

> ...
> But RCI exchangers have no such expectation. They are assigned units at the discretion of the resort.  Owners have priority as they should.  ...


I have no quibble at all with that.  I have stoutly defended this right of resorts to give first priority to accomodating owner requests, and placing exchangers in the units that remain after owner requests are addressed.

That is not the same thing as shunting exchangers off to a different resort after they have been confirmed into another.


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## CaliDave (Feb 10, 2006)

sally said:
			
		

> THE PROPERTY IS WHAT YOU ARE BUYING and dealing with rci for so many years purchasing the top tier of this resort was the only way to go imho.
> sally



Actually you aren't buying anything. You are renting your Grand Mayan. You own nothing , other then the right to use it for a set number of years. Then its time to get out the wallet again when they screw you over for another huge amount of $$.

I agree with you on one thing.. You do sound like a broken record. 
You don't need to keep trying to justify why you bought from the developer. Many other tuggers have made the same mistake, but they aren't in denial.


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## sally (Feb 10, 2006)

*calidave*

I think it is time for A new forum for me...all I tried to do here is show the other side of the coin as truthfully as I could.You guys just need to look at things from many angles before you cast the stones..sheesh... I am sure glad we dont live in the middle ages


sally


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## echoal (Feb 10, 2006)

I can see MP/GM being selective because I have no problem using my GM week, I did buy from the developer.  Even when I owner MP I was able to split my week 1BR and studio back to back for two weeks.  I think MP is giving people who bought from the developer first dibs because would you not cater to the big spender first or take your chances with someone who spent $1000 .00 on ebay?  Like I said I never had a problem yet with MP.  (SFX is my exchange-I am over RCI).  
They do know who bought from the developer because when I was going to up grade to GM, the sales guy looked on the computer and knew when I bought and how much we paid.  MP is operating no different than the Las Vegas casinos, the whales get super comps limo ride from the airport free room, drinks and more – regular Joe gets a coupon for a buffet.


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## KarenK (Feb 10, 2006)

Echoal -- you mention that developer purchasers should have preference over those who paid 1,000 via eBay??  I don't think that is the way it is supposed to work. I can imagine a scenario at a timeshare where I used to own in the US. It is in the north and members bitched that their fall, winter and spring weeks had to pay for the maintenance of the pool to which they never had access. This is the same thing, IMHO. Every owner should get the same respect. Should there be a separate, less-classy check-in area for eBay or RCI people??


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## Ellis2ca (Feb 10, 2006)

*First dibs for big spenders*



			
				echoal said:
			
		

> I can see MP/GM being selective because I have no problem using my GM week, I did buy from the developer.  Even when I owned MP I was able to split my week 1BR and studio back to back for two weeks.
> 
> I think MP is giving people who bought from the developer first dibs because would you not cater to the big spender first or take your chances with someone who spent $1000 .00 on ebay?  Like I said I never had a problem yet with MP.  (SFX is my exchange-I am over RCI).
> 
> They do know who bought from the developer because when I was going to up grade to GM, the sales guy looked on the computer and knew when I bought and how much we paid.  MP is operating no different than the Las Vegas casinos, the whales get super comps limo ride from the airport free room, drinks and more – regular Joe gets a coupon for a buffet.



So if the developer sold to Sally for $20,000 and Sally sells it on E-bay for $1, why should the developer give any less service to Sally's customer than to Sally?   The developer got paid fully by Sally, and Sally sold what was hers to somebody else.  What does it matter to the developer how much Sally sells it for on e-bay, since it was not stolen from him?  

What if Sally bought for $20,000 and sells it for $25,000... are you saying it is right for the Grand Mayan to give better service to that person than to the one who bought on e-bay for $1, because he is a "big spender"?    

If Sally bought 50 years for $20,000 and there are 49 years left, would YOU buy it from Sally for $19,000?   Would you buy it for $18,000?  $12,000?  $5,000?  $2500?   From what you are saying, it is worthless except to the original buyer, so I would not buy it for 10 cents.  

I won't get into the Grand Mayan if I buy a resale.  Fine.  That is understood. 

But if I buy, but I can't sell the same privileges that I had, how can I buy from the developer?  It makes more sense not to buy at all, it makes more sense to rent from Grand Mayan if I want to go there... then they have to deliver or they can't receive the rent.  

How much is Sally's purchase worth today?  I think it depreciated about 90% the minute after you bought it.

The developer gets 10% of the original resale price anyways, to change your name on his books.   Do you think it is o.k. for the developer to guess who is a big spender and who is not, on the basis of whether or not they bought directly from the developer?   

So you are saying that Grand Mayan's  obligation to give service is only to the original buyer... So I suggest we should all take this into consideration before we buy at Grand Mayan.  You can buy Grand Mayan but you can't sell Grand Mayan, you sell Mayan Palace.  

That's fine, if they tell you that in the contract, so you know you will lose 90% of the value of your purchase, if you want to transfer it to anybody else.  

Your analogy with Las Vegas is not valid, because it is not a membership.  The analogy would be that you bought a membership in a Golf Club for $100,000, and you are welcome to play in the golf course... but you can't sell your membership... If you sell it, whoever buys it from you will not be welcome into the Club House, and can only play golf in the practice golf course.  

I'll buy somewhere else.  Sally, congratulations, you did a really good purchase, but you will have a hard time selling it if you ever want to sell it.  Now I understand why it is 90% depreciated on e-bay... it is not worth anything except to the first buyers.  

Sally... 10 or 15 years from now you will be an old customer, and they might not remember that you paid them $20,000... Since your membership is for a floating week, they will have 10 members waiting for each available space... I hope they won't forget that old customers can also stay at Grand Mayan, and not only recent customers. 

This is going to be like another "Royal Sunset" fiasco, except it is more luxurious than Royal Sunset, and maybe also more luxurious than Royal Resorts, but it is the same sleazy type of operation.  You just watch and see.  When they have oversold by 500% Sally will finally understand.

Ellis


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## T_R_Oglodyte (Feb 10, 2006)

Ellis2ca said:
			
		

> So if the developer sold to Sally for $20,000 and Sally sells it on E-bay for $1, why should the developer give any less service to Sally's customer than to Sally?   The developer got paid fully by Sally, and Sally sold what was hers to somebody else.  What does it matter to the developer how much Sally sells it for on e-bay, since it was not stolen from him?  ...
> Ellis


Ellis - thanks for so eloquently composing the post I was thinking of as well.

The Mayan developer are pretty obviously slimy.  Through this whole discussion I keep thinking that if you go to bed with a slug, you shouldn't be surprixed if someday you wake up and discover that you've been slimed.


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## california-bighorn (Feb 10, 2006)

When you buy a re-sale the resort rarely, if ever, has any idea what the re-sale price was. They only have a record that ownership has been transferred and what the original cost was. When I bought two Mexican timeshares on ebay the only items sent to transfer ownership were the signed over membership agreement, a letter stating the membership has been purchased and a check for payment of the transfer fee. During a recent owner update presentation, the salesperson looked at the original sales contract for $12,995 and mentioned we got a very good deal. I couldn't bring myself to tell her how little we actually paid.
Point to be made, I don't believe owners who bought from the developer are given priority treatment. In fact, we own several timeshares we purchsed on re-sale and have been treated very well at every one of them. How would the staff have any idea of who you bought from or for how much? I'm starting to sense there's a little paranoia out there. 
Marty


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## Pat H (Feb 10, 2006)

I bought from the MP and I don't think that owners who bought resale should be treated any differently than owners who bought direct. An owner is an owner.


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## 5infam (Feb 11, 2006)

sally said:
			
		

> Read the charter that the developer  provides at closing.You get what you pay for.



Sally, are you saying that the Mayan Resorts, specifically the Grand Mayan (I believe this is where you own) have it in writing that only owners that purchased direct will have priorities, and that resale owners will be at a disadvantage? I have been reading a lot in the Mexico forum as I would like to go to Cancun in April as well as even buy in Mexico. However, I am trying to get a handle on the pros and cons of owning in Mexico and this would be an issue to consider. Sally, by your description (and that of others) it sounds like the Mayan resorts are a great place to stay and possibly own - but I am trying to get my arms around how the Mayan system works. I own Disney Vacation Club (points system) where I bought resale and also developer points. With DVC, there is 100% no difference. I just bought a Marriott in Maui resale, with the only difference being that I can't trade in my week for Marriott Reward points, which I think is a bad deal for the Maui maintenance costs anyway, so for me no big deal. But if the Mayan resorts put in writing that any resale owners will be treated poorly, then I would not want to buy Mayan resorts resale or from the developer. 

Please note, I am not trying to bash anyone or their opinions, I am just trying to learn from these posts so I can make an informed decision. Any comments/clarifications are most appreciated.


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## M&M (Feb 11, 2006)

*I have to agree*

I have to agree with Ellis and the others. If your purchase isn't worth the money for someone to buy it from you (because they don't have the same priority as you did), the worth of that week has greatly diminished.

I bought two weeks at the Royal Sands (resale) for less than Sally paid for her GM week. I get treated just like somone who paid a lot more directly from the developer. I also can tell you exactly what unit I will be in when I go. If I rent it out or when I sell, those that rent or buy from me will have that same unit for that same week and will be treated just as I get treated.

I've seen picture of the GM and it looks great. Some day I may rent a week there, but I wouldn't want to buy there.

JMHO,
Mike


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## quiltergal (Feb 11, 2006)

*10% Transfer Fee*

Even if you decided GM was for you and you bought it for $1 on Ebay you would still have to pay a 10% of original purchase price transfer fee to MR.  So even if you gave it away the recipient would have to pay at least $2K.  I for one would look at the Royals, Club Regina or Pueblo Bonita before giving MP a single dime.


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## T_R_Oglodyte (Feb 11, 2006)

M&M said:
			
		

> I have to agree with Ellis and the others. If your purchase isn't worth the money for someone to buy it from you (because they don't have the same priority as you did), the worth of that week has greatly diminished.
> 
> I bought two weeks at the Royal Sands (resale) for less than Sally paid for her GM week. I get treated just like somone who paid a lot more directly from the developer. I also can tell you exactly what unit I will be in when I go. If I rent it out or when I sell, those that rent or buy from me will have that same unit for that same week and will be treated just as I get treated.
> 
> ...



It's like buying a new Honda from a dealer, and the sales contract requires that you to bring the car back to the dealership before you sell it to another person. 

Then, when you bring the car by, the dealer takes out a sledge hammer and smashes the rear fenders.  Then the dealer gives you the keys and says, "ok, you can transfer title now."

You ask why the dealer did that, and the dealer says, "We do that to discourage people from buyng used Hondas from private sellers.  If they buy a  Honda, we want them to buy a new one from us - or one of the used ones we have on our lot."


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## Ellis2ca (Feb 12, 2006)

*About the pros and cons of owning in Mexico...*



			
				5infam said:
			
		

> I have been reading a lot in the Mexico forum as I would like to go to Cancun in April as well as even buy in Mexico. However, I am trying to get a handle on the pros and cons of owning in Mexico and this would be an issue to consider.



Please don't mix "Mexico" into this.  There are no better timeshare resorts on Planet Earth than the Royal Resorts of Can Cun, and they are Mexican, and in Mexico.  I have never thought of the pros and cons of owning a timeshare in the United States because some timeshares in the U.S. are scams or go broke or have a low index of customer satisfaction.

That the Grand Mayan and the Sunset and maybe others have a well deserved terrible reputation is not a reason for you not to buy in Mexico, if you buy in a good timeshare.   Do your research on TUG before you buy, that's what it is here for.  

You have already learned enough about "the Grand Mayan" and the "Mayan Palace"... They oversell, and they rent Villas like a hotel.  If they rented out too many Villas as hotel rooms for a higher rate than the maintainance fee, they have been known to boot somebody out, and that somebody might be you.    

If you are coming to Mexico in April, I advise you to read the TUG Top Ten before you get here... See if you might find one, or two, or three, or four timeshares in Mexico which are in the Top Ten in the world... (Actually, you only have to look at the "Top Seven" of the Top Ten...)  See which they are (they all have a similar word in their names) and read the TUG reviews about them, before you blow your money on buying any timeshare anywhere else.

If there is a one to one relation between the number of members and the number of timeshare Villas you can't go wrong... or if they have a floating system or a point system, and the management honors its reservations to the member after they are made, I suppose that is o.k. too.   

From what I have already read on this forum I would not risk having a problem on my vacation by trading into the "Grand" Mayans anywhere, anymore, even though I know they are very luxurious and have excellent service once you are in, if you are not one of the ones who was booted out...  

Once is a mistake... Many times, as has already been reported, is not a mistake... it is a way of doing business, and I am afraid to do business with them.

- Ellis


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## JEFF H (Feb 12, 2006)

Mayan Palace does have some very lovely resorts.
Their sleezy Sales policy,poor treatment of exchange guests and 10% transfer fees  however Have caused me to avoid the Mayan Palace resorts.
 I refuse to support a business that operates in this manner.


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## sally (Feb 12, 2006)

*5 in fam*

Please do not let the disgruntled here sway any decision you might be making. In my view there are 2 types of people... 1)A person who buys something she knows (by comparison of 40 or more top properties)that is superior in many ways to the others.This would be me..and 2)A person who looks at life in an all or nothing manner. such as any here.These types often throw the baby out with the bath water! Do not take my word for it..go on a tour of the Grand mayan palace  and say the royals resorts and you compare.Also resales and exchanges are in a different class, as the home resort computers, signal WHEN an owner has purchased from the developer ...WHERE he puchased and what type of product,from what salesperson. Surely if the resorts GRAND mayan units were over booked,the person who exchanged in or purchased (second hand, and they DO know this! ) would be the ones to get downgraded into the regular mayan units.

sally


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## california-bighorn (Feb 12, 2006)

Let me name 2 other type of people.......those who can make informed rational decisions based on past performance and those who can't. 
Marty


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## Pat H (Feb 12, 2006)

Ellis2ca said:
			
		

> You have already learned enough about "the Grand Mayan" and the "Mayan Palace"... They oversell, and they rent Villas like a hotel.  If they rented out too many Villas as hotel rooms for a higher rate than the maintainance fee, they have been known to boot somebody out, and that somebody might be you.
> 
> - Ellis



Ellis, where do you get your information from? There has never been any evidence that MP has oversold it's resorts. Care to back up your claim?


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## 5infam (Feb 12, 2006)

Ellis,

I am not saying anything negative about Mexico, nor am I equating the practices of one resort chain to the entire country. The fact is, this is the "Mexico Forum" and I am trying to learn about all of the different options in this country that I have never had the luxury of vacationing in (I go to Tijuana or Ensenada on day trips because we live close by, but I know this is not the Mexico that all of you timeshare owners know and love at your beautiful resorts). All timeshare systems have pros and cons and I am trying to learn what those are. I can completely understand your concerns with the Mayan resorts. The way they are treating traders (if it is them and not RCI - which doesn't seem to be answered on the TUG boards yet) seems horrible to me and would preclude me from doing business with them as well. However, I have heard and seen a lot of things said on this board that weren't 100% accurate (everyone makes mistakes - including me), so I was asking Sally, or anyone else for that matter, if the Mayan resort chain actually puts it in writing that you will be treated differently if you buy resale. Since resale often makes the most financial sense (again my opinion), then no matter how lovely the Mayan resorts are, I would cross them off my list. However, I like to stay in 5 star resorts, and when buying, I want to buy the nicest resort and system program possible for the destination I am looking to go to long term. I also want to learn all about the Royals as well - so hopefully I will get that opportunity here on TUG before my April trip - but the Mayan resorts are getting a lot of play here on TUG right now.



			
				sally said:
			
		

> Also resales and exchanges are in a different class, as the home resort computers, signal WHEN an owner has purchased from the developer ...WHERE he puchased and what type of product,from what salesperson. Surely if the resorts GRAND mayan units were over booked,the person who exchanged in or purchased (second hand, and they DO know this! ) would be the ones to get downgraded into the regular mayan units.
> sally



Sally, you mentioned the Mayan charter in this post and in others, again - is it actually in writing that there is a different level of service that will be given to direct purchasers vs. non-direct? I am only pushing this point because you mentioned it several times and I really want to know. If you have the verbiage, maybe you can post it (that would be great so we could see their exact words). What you are saying in the quote above is something that I have heard over and over from people throughout the years and have found it not to be true - at least in the cases where I own and that would be Marriott and DVC. As a matter of fact, Marriott sales people have told me that if I buy resale, they will see that on the computer when I check in and/or when I make reservations, and I will not get any of my preferences and will not get to book rooms at high season. I find this laughable and completely untrue - which is all part of the timeshare sales tactics that are all too common, irregardless of resort (sales people are sales people and often don't represent their companies well). Sally, you have also asked the question several times (which has gone unanswered) for owners to post if they have had any troubles with the Mayan resorts and getting downgraded to another resort. So far, no responses, so with all of the resale purchasers on TUG, I would think that the resale folks are being treated the same as you are, even though you bought direct. Maybe I am wrong to conclude this, so I would love to hear the experiences of the resale buyer with the Mayan resorts (you have to be out there). At the end of the day, it seems clear that exchangers are getting booted out of the Grand Mayan - which is terrible and should be stopped. I have no dealings with RCI - but if I were trading with them, I would fire them on the spot and go somewhere else. It does not appear that this is a problem with SFX and the Mayan resorts, which has me leaning in the direction that RCI may be the bad guys.

Please note I am not trying to offend anyone here, I am truly just trying to learn and make the best decision for me and my family. TIA for for clarifying any of my questions.


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## T_R_Oglodyte (Feb 12, 2006)

5infam:

You are doing an excellent job of asking questions, collecting information, and seeking backup for clams made by others.  

Happy hunting!


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## Noni (Feb 12, 2006)

I agree.  Hopefully, you (and the rest of us) can get some concrete answers not based on emotions, but facts.

I will admit, though, at times, this thread has been a "hoot".  

We don't "own" in Mexico, but I'll stay tuned in.  

Joan


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## Ellis2ca (Feb 12, 2006)

*Evidence that the Mayan Palace has oversold its resorts...*



			
				Pat H said:
			
		

> Ellis, where do you get your information from? There has never been any evidence that MP has oversold it's resorts. Care to back up your claim?



Hello Pat... Let me first start by saying that I don't know for sure that they have oversold their resorts, because I am not their accountant and I don't have access to their books... But since it is a floating week system, unless they oversell, they can't get all their Villas booked.  I will explain:

In a floating weeks system, there is not a one to one correspondence of number of members to (number of Villas times the number of weeks).

Since not all weeks are equally desireable, they must have more members than the number of Villa-Weeks that they have available, or else the low season weeks will not be fully occupied.  This is bad for the Resort, because they will lose the maintainance fee, and also their restaurants and shops will do less business.  So they MUST oversell, or they won't have 100% occupancy.

So, for example, if the resort has 100 Villas, it only has 100 villas x 52 weeks that they can deliver, but they need to have more than 5200 members who would like these 5200 Villa-weeks, because you can never get 5200 members to voluntarily occupy exactly all 5200 Villa-weeks.

So... They have to oversell... they MUST oversell.

They can sell 100 Villas for 52 weeks to 5200 persons... or to 7000... or to 10,000... or to 20,000 persons... Everybody is only buying a glorified discount card, with which they hope they can make a reservation to the season and type of Villa that they dream they are entitled to rent IF THEY CAN MAKE THE RESERVATION... 

But since more people want to go in January and February and March and April, and June, July and August, and fewer want to go in May and September and October and November and the first half of December, MANY members are necessarily going to want the same weeks, and the same Grand Villas... and not all of them can have their wish.  

So there is the seed of discord built into the system.  Sally imagines it will never affect her because she thinks she paid top dollar, and that they are Gentlemen... And they might want to give Sally her wish, but they can't give everybody who paid them top dollar their wish, so some of them are going to have to be sacrificed.   Sally does not have a contract that says she is entitled to a guaranteed week, not even in LOW SEASON... 

There are no guaranteed reservations in the floating week or points system.  

When the Grand Mayan is oversold as it has to be, someday, and 100% reserved in the season when Sally would like to go... then they will offer her to stay at the Mayan Palace, or in two smaller suites, or however they can manage to please her, if they can please her... And if they can't please her, that will be HER TOUGH LUCK, not theirs.

Now... The way to predict the future is to look at the past.  History repeats itself.  This is not a new company... They have had the Mayan Palace and the Sea Gardens in Acapulco and Puerto Vallarta, so they have a history.

So now... do they have a history of complaints that people bought at Mayan Palace and couldn't get reservations at Mayan Palace?  

Do they have a history of anybody buying a 2 bedroom Grand Villa and not being able to find one, and they are offered 2 separate smaller pieces?  

Or was anybody offered to go to Sea Gardens (downgraded...) instead?  

Has there been any history of anybody renting at Mayan Palace and being sent to Sea Gardens?  

Has there been any history of anybody being downgraded from Grand Mayan to Mayan Palace?

If so, then you can guess that the reason why it happened is because they oversold and cannot satisfy 100% of their members 100% of the time.

- Ellis


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## sally (Feb 12, 2006)

*ellis(YOU RASCAL)andT R(aka nelson)*

everyone wants to live in utopia!....I, on the the other hand, look at the system ,look at the product ,weigh the risks, and hope for the best.There are no sure, no fail things in life..only opportunities!We believe that,   having an owner of a (developer purchased Grand mayan week),bitch to the world about being downgraded,would be the kiss of death for this corporation.They know this and will avoid this at all cost.(BUSINESS 101) But...they will play the overbooked game with all the rest of the customer accesses to thier resort. Kind of turns your E BAY deal on its head, .. hmm..and...THEY DO KNOW WHO BUYS SECOND HAND!!(remember the 10% reinstatement fee..duh..)  Where do you think they make the most of thier $$$$$? of course from what you savy e-bayers call (sally the fool.) It is a business, plain and simple.You can talk morals all you want, and refuse to patronize this or that ,but in the end ,you have ...WHAT IS....You really have to look at the world not as you would like it to be..but as it is....(Think of this as you buy your gizmo made with slave- child labor from wallmart or most all other stores now,deplorable imho) A very hard crappy nugget of truth, I think......Oh and 5 infam...the charter will say every thing in writing BUT,what you are looking for, they would be choking business flow if they did divulge that developer purchased owners get  special treatment over others. Remember very few sure things in life, just better risks to take then others. AND by the way, the mayan family started with accupolco,witch really is not that old at all,(as resorts go)and now has five AAA resorts with very similar features.(With a 6th on the way).Follow the money,do you want to be in a resort chain with a ton of new $$$$ coming in? or a closed end resort that is constantly hitting up its owners for increased cost? This group that owns the mayans may not come from your world..but they are progresive, pro-growth and know how to provide luxury and impecable service to the american-minded tourist.  We all want a fair world ..but really how fair is it that we are allowed to vacation like we do and people around the world eat bugs to survive? WORLD WITHOUT ROSE COLORED GLASSES, and I do feed poor childeren through charity!

sorry for spelling 


sally


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## T_R_Oglodyte (Feb 13, 2006)

Ellis2ca said:
			
		

> ...
> 
> In a floating weeks system, there is not a one to one correspondence of number of members to (number of Villas times the number of weeks)....


That is an incorrect basic premise.  There are many floating week systems that have exactly that one-to-one correspondence.

The rest of your discussion, which I have nxt quoted, also proceeds incorrectly.  It is certainly true that in a floating week system not veryone will get the week that they want.  A property operated floating week system accomodtes that through exchanges.  When the resort knows they are not going to be fully occupied, they bank the week with an exhange company.  Then when a member tries to get a reservation and nothing is available that they can make, they can accept a banked week.

I am in the minority in TUG, because I believe that resorts that have floating week systems should bulk bank and not allow owners to select weeks for deposit,  My  rationale follows some of your thinking - the most demanded weeks should be reserved for owners.  A bulk banking system effectively relieves some of the pressure on owner reservations for peak times.

It is certainly true that some floating resorts have oversold their inventory.  But contrary to what you seem to be asserting, overselling is not intrinsic to floating week systems.


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## sally (Feb 13, 2006)

*sallys TOUGH LUCK*

Hey marty do you think I am rational? I believe my (tough luck day) will  come only after all of you TRADERS AND E-BAYERS trying to secure dates in the Grand mayan have thiers!....nothing mean here..just rational thought.. imho

YES... sally DOES have a written contract for 97 years that states A GRAND MAYAN 1 bedrm is reserved for sally 1 week per year if 6 months advance notice is recieved!

This resort system will become more crowded going forward of course,but..with new resorts always coming on line they can continue to bring in new purchasers.

sally


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## 5infam (Feb 13, 2006)

sally said:
			
		

> ......Oh and 5 infam...the charter will say every thing in writing BUT,what you are looking for, they would be choking business flow if they did divulge that developer purchased owners get  special treatment over others.



Thanks Sally for clearing that up...I now know that there is nothing in the "charter" that says anything about a downgrade in service for developer buyers versus resale buyers. So essentially, all your other comments regarding resale buyers (those on EBAY, etc.) are just for opinion purposes and do not state any facts. I know you feel that it is inevitable that anyone who may have paid less than you is doomed for utter torture at the Mayan resorts, but I am trying to stick to evidence that can actually be proved, or by real life experience - such as the poor treatment of RCI traders (which is clearly an issue).  

Is there anyone in TUG land that can tell us if there is a stated difference when buying a Mayan resort resale vs. developer? As best I have been able to figure here, there is just the 10% charge of the direct purchasers price when it is resold. Besides this, can anyone give any other FACTS that would be a reason for not buying resale (penalties, lower priorities, no points program, unable to reserve at other resorts,etc.)?  Thanks!!


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## quiltergal (Feb 13, 2006)

Am I the only one who thinks it odd that GM treats their exchangers so badly?  Talk about killing the cash cow.  I mean here you have all this fresh meat to exploit and rather than wine them and dine them and treat them like kings to make the sale the exchangers get shunted off to the Mayan Palace or worse yet the Sea Gardens and treated like they have a communicable disease.  I'm having a hard time wrapping my mind around the logic behind that behavior given the amount of effort they put into dragging people off the street for a presentation.  

I think the answer to exchangers being bumped is over on the other thread.  MR owners whose weeks were affected by Wilma are being allowed to use their 2005 week in 2006 at one of the other resorts.  No wonder those weeks are getting pulled back.   Should make for some interesting bookkeeping.


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## california-bighorn (Feb 13, 2006)

I'm starting to think "Sally" may not really exist and is just someone playing a game on TUG. I just can't image anyone writing the things "Sally" writes. Every so often, while defending the Mayans, "Sally" goes off on Walmart for selling items made by people in less developed countries. Last February we stayed at the Mayan Riviera where we observed first hand the very thing "Sally" accuses Walmart of. That is paying low wages (as compared to the US) to employees without any benefits. On my morning walks I saw the laborers who showed up to work on building the resort put on a number to identify themself then work 12 hours. Those workers make around $8 USD for the day. We also watched as a worker fell from a ladder. After about 20 minutes, he had to get up without assisance and try to walk with an obviously broken ankle or leg. No problemo for GM/MP just put a number on another worker. I don't mean this to be political or anything like that. For people in less developed countries they may consider making a small amount is better than making nothing. Just pointing out that the very concept that "Sally" vilifies Walmart for is the normal operating procedure for her beloved resort. But these underpaid workers sure build a great resort for "Sally" to enjoy her vacation.
Marty


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## LisaH (Feb 13, 2006)

Marty, I agree with you. It's just hard to believe "Sally" is real. The kind of statement she made is so outlandish that, like NONI said, this thread has been a "hoot".


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## Pat H (Feb 13, 2006)

I think "Sally" works for MP. Her statements are ludicrous. There is nothing that says resale buyers will be treated any differently than developer buyers. I love the MP and wish they would tone down their sales presentations. I hope that we find out the real reason exchangers are being bumped from the GM.


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## Ellis2ca (Feb 13, 2006)

*Incorrect premise... thanks for correcting me...*



			
				T_R_Oglodyte said:
			
		

> That is an incorrect basic premise.  There are many floating week systems that have exactly that one-to-one correspondence.
> 
> The rest of your discussion, which I have not quoted, also proceeds incorrectly.  It is certainly true that in a floating week system not everyone will get the week that they want.  A property operated floating week system accomodtes that through exchanges.  When the resort knows they are not going to be fully occupied, they bank the week with an exhange company.  Then when a member tries to get a reservation and nothing is available that they can make, they can accept a banked week.



I admit that if there are floating weeks, or point system resorts, that have a one to one correspondence between the number of members and the number of Villa Weeks, then my statement is mistaken, and most of what I fear about the floating weeks and points system would not happen.   Some of it would happen, but not the worst of it.   

I also admit that I have only had good experience with the way things are done at the Royal Resorts, which is that we each own a specific Villa on a specific week, so no reservations are necessary, and nobody has ever had any problem renting out or renting into the Royal Resorts.  

So based on my own good experience and the bad experience I have read and discussed on TUG about the "Royal" Sunset (which nobody should confuse with a Royal Resort...) and the Mayan Palaces, I came to my own conclusion about why and how this happens, and perhaps I jumped to conclusions about the entire floating weeks and point systems.  I hadn't thought of a floating weeks or points system that is actually honest, but now you are telling me that there are some, and that makes me happy.

Good.  Thanks for correcting me.  It is good to know that there are some good resorts with floating weeks and/or points...  Please tell me which they are, so that I will feel more comfortable if I ever want to trade or rent into one of them in the future.

In any case, I advise anybody that buys into a floating weeks or points system that this should be very clearly specified in the contract, that they will not oversell the resort.  

Sally, if your contract says this, then I really (really) do think you made a good buy.  If not, someday you will wake up to reality.  You keep on telling us about the tough world and reality, but you don't seem to see that it's your own head that's on the block.  

But then, assuming that there are resorts that have a floating week system, or a points system, and that it is written into the contract that there is not going to be overselling... WHAT IS THE ADVANTAGE of having a floating weeks or points system?  Why not sell one-to-one, your specific time, your specific Villa, and then have an internal exchange for those who sometimes need to exchange or upgrade or downgrade?  This is all of the good, and none of the bad, and there are no seeds of discord, as I think exist inherently in the floating weeks and points system. 

EVEN IF there is a one to one correspondence in a floating weeks system, somebody is going to be left unhappy because they couldn't get exactly what they wanted, when they wanted it, or the view they wanted, or they couldn't go the week their friends were going to go, etc.  None of this happens if everybody owns their specific week and specific Villa.

Maybe this thread should be discussed in a separate New Post... 




			
				T_R_Oglodyte said:
			
		

> I am in the minority in TUG, because I believe that resorts that have floating week systems should bulk bank and not allow owners to select weeks for deposit.  My  rationale follows some of your thinking - the most demanded weeks should be reserved for owners.  A bulk banking system effectively relieves some of the pressure on owner reservations for peak times.
> 
> It is certainly true that some floating resorts have oversold their inventory.  But contrary to what you seem to be asserting, overselling is not intrinsic to floating week systems.



I don't see why the owners should not be allowed to select high season weeks for deposit.  If you bought RED weeks, you have to be allowed to pick a RED week and do whatever you want to with it.  If you want to trade with me, you have to give me the weeks I want, or else you can't trade with me.  I own VERY RED so I might want RED or BLUE but you should be allowed to pick one of those weeks and deposit it into R.C.I. or else I can't find those RED weeks I need to make a trade, either with you or through R.C.I. and if it is not there, I can't trade through R.C.I. either.

Sally should be able to reserve a week 7 in February, or a week 25 in July, rent it to me, and I should have 100% confidence that I will arrive and Sally's reservation will be honored, no questions asked.  

According to Sally, if I buy a cheap week to stay at the Grand Mayan from her on e-Bay, I should not count on getting it because those are the facts of life, I haven't paid my dues, even though she has paid them for me, etc.

"Owners" should be no different than "Exchange Visitors" in any way.  I was severely mistreated at Disney Vacation Village (DVC) many years ago, as an exchange visitor.  I don't know if this has to do with the fact that it is a point system but in any case, I was asked to leave the swimming pool with my family at Wilderness Lodge.  I would not have been asked to leave if I had been the owner who rented to me at Old Key West, where I was "only" an exchange guest.... 

For your information, the owner who rented to me had recommended that I should go visit Wilderness Lodge, and I could have a good time in their pools... The owner and many other DVC members were shocked at my mistreatment...  In any case, that is the last time I ever visited Disney Vacation Village, which I think is a great place to visit... but go as an owner, or don't go.  Now that I know the rules, that I am a second class citizen at Disney Vacation Village, I choose to go elsewhere where I am welcome. - Ellis


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## sally (Feb 13, 2006)

*trust ..do not trust anyone?*

THE BIG PPPLEASE...SALLY works for the mayan palace, sally is not real,sally does not like wallmart,sally does not like anyone on tug.

sally IS a real person,and many of you know this by reading my many post about my childeren and vacations! I live in Chicago and have A fixed week at a wisconsin resort we enjoy very much! (PAT).

I am sorry so many of my thoughts regarding these issues  are different then so many tuggers.I look at life, glass half full,and how I can best provide my family with  great vacation memorys.We have been on some cruddy trips an I swore that would not happen again. 
As far as wallmart goes ITS A (metaphor) silly!I admit I shop at wallmart for the value,I am a hipocrit! Moral backing is not one of my strong suits with this, as I am trying to raise a family the best way I can.Our polititions have made choices that give us little choice on who to buy from,as most stores now carry a majority of chinese goods.
Lest us forget how Cathylee Gifford was publicly hammered for having her namesake on child slave labor produced sneakers? NOW its OK for any one to produce any thing with child slave labor, and nothing is said.THAT IS OUTRAGEOUS! Do you really think that the communist government of china has cleaned up its act? not hardly...its worse more then ever now.At least there are not factories in mexico on every corner using exclusively childeren under 10 as thier main workers. tens of thousands of factories.but I digress...the main point here is do not be all moral and upity stating you dislike the mayan palace for poor moral sales practices and then open your cabinets in your homes to find secret atrocities that you are unknowingly supporting indirectly anyhow! THIS is what I am calling attention to in regards to the way the world works now. Nobody can stop wallmart can they? the iron curtain is closed to cameras , but many chinese tell of these factories.The wallmarts will go on, the mayan palace...the enrons, the haliburtons, the worldcoms,ect ect, ect

FInd a thing or two in life that you can enjoy 
while you still have the capacity to do this. That is my only message.       

The real HOOT here for me is the amount of people who see the world as they want it to be rather then how it is.




sally

sally


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## Larry (Feb 13, 2006)

quiltergal said:
			
		

> Am I the only one who thinks it odd that GM treats their exchangers so badly?  Talk about killing the cash cow.  I mean here you have all this fresh meat to exploit and rather than wine them and dine them and treat them like kings to make the sale the exchangers get shunted off to the Mayan Palace or worse yet the Sea Gardens and treated like they have a communicable disease.  I'm having a hard time wrapping my mind around the logic behind that behavior given the amount of effort they put into dragging people off the street for a presentation.
> 
> I think the answer to exchangers being bumped is over on the other thread.  MR owners whose weeks were affected by Wilma are being allowed to use their 2005 week in 2006 at one of the other resorts.  No wonder those weeks are getting pulled back.   Should make for some interesting bookkeeping.



I recently stayed at the Mayan Palace in Acapulco ( January 15-22 ) and spoke to several other guests throughout the week and everyone who exchanged into the Grand stayed at the Grand. The only difference between what owners got and exchangers received was the view. Most of the owners received ocean view units however I did speak to a couple of owners who ( yes and they did buy from the developer) get what they felt were " bad views). All of the exchangers were given rooms facing the golf course and many were on low floors so most of their views was of the parking lot. Not one exchanger was placed into the Mayan Palace that I met during the entire week.

The only couple I met that were shafted in my opinion was this really nice older couple we met. who bought from the developer and paid 35K while they were vacationing in Puerto Vallarta. When they were ready to sign their papers they noticed they were sold 2 weeks in Puerto Panasco and not Puerto Vallarta. They tried to get out without signing but were told " When you buy one you own them all". After 8 hours of high presure sales they took the deal.

By the way this very nice couple who bought from the developer called to make a reservation and the only thing left was the Mayan Sea Garden which is were they stayed after paying $35,000 to the nice developer that Sally says will always take care of their owners.


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## T_R_Oglodyte (Feb 13, 2006)

Ellis2ca said:
			
		

> I don't see why the owners should not be allowed to select high season weeks for deposit.  If you bought RED weeks, you have to be allowed to pick a RED week and do whatever you want to with it.  If you want to trade with me, you have to give me the weeks I want, or else you can't trade with me.  I own VERY RED so I might want RED or BLUE but you should be allowed to pick one of those weeks and deposit it into R.C.I. or else I can't find those RED weeks I need to make a trade, either with you or through R.C.I. and if it is not there, I can't trade through R.C.I. either.


This has been discussed in threads several times in the past, including a month or two ago.  Try doing a search on bulk banking.  In sum, it's a matter of priorities.  As  you point out, in a floating system there will inevitably be some weeks that are more in demand than others.  So determining who gets those weeks is a matter of priorities.

Some resorts believe that their first priority should be to accomodate owners who want to make usage reservations to return to their resort.  In that case, it makes perfect sense to reserve the highest demanded weeks for owners and make the less-demanded weeks within that usage class more available to exchangers.  That is consistent with the concept that timesharing is mostly about owning a resort to use, with exchanging being a second priority. 

In a bulk banking system as I desccribe, owners still receive weeks that are consistent with their usage right - e.g., if their ownership entitles them to usage during weeks 22-35, they get a week 22-35 as their exchange week.  They just can't select which particualar week in their usage class they can use.

As for floating weeks systems that don't oversell, there are quite a few - in fact there are probably far more that don't oversell than those that do oversell.  Some that I am familiar with inclde the Embassy resorts. Pahio, Club Regina/raintree Vacation Club, Worldmark, and Club Sunterra.


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## sally (Feb 13, 2006)

*larry...*

the devil is in the details, I suspect. Did the older couple complain? Did they ask to be compensated? All resorts have unfortunate probems from time to time. The question is.. Do they  shaft developer purchasing owners on a regular basis? NO !!!and do they know WHO these owners are?  yes!! remember  the kiss of death! Also..I would venture that they are not interested in exploiting all(FRESH MEAT ) sources. as Quiltergirl calls people,...they are a business,they have thier system,and it is far from perfect....but, It is an excellent product and good enough for my family.

sally ..end rant


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## quiltergal (Feb 13, 2006)

sally said:
			
		

> the devil is in the details, I suspect. Did the older couple complain? Did they ask to be compensated? All resorts have unfortunate probems from time to time. The question is.. Do they  shaft developer purchasing owners on a regular basis? NO !!!and do they know WHO these owners are?  yes!! remember  the kiss of death! Also..I would venture that they are not interested in exploiting all(FRESH MEAT ) sources. as Quiltergirl calls people,...they are a business,they have thier system,and it is far from perfect....but, It is an excellent product and good enough for my family.
> 
> sally ..end rant



Seems to me if I am remembering your assertions correctly that the MR *KNOWS WHO BOUGHT FROM THE DEVELOPER*  that the older couple should not have had to complain.  Anybody who pays top dollar should be treated like royalty according to your theory.  If your theory holds true then someone who exchanged in should have been bumped to the Sea Gardens not the top dollar couple.  I'd be a little uneasy if I were you.  One day you could be that couple.

As for fresh meat, I was trying to be nice and not call them poor suckers.  If GM ran their resorts like a business they would look at their exchangers as a potential pool of possible buyers that they have spent virtually zero money recruiting.  They didn't have to be bribed to come to a presentation, they go to the resort willingly.  Doesn't it seem easier and more cost effective to pester people who are already captive at your resort than accosting strangers on every street corner, grocery store, and storefront?

Lets face it.  We've all been there in the sales room and took the bait hook line and sinker.  I'm no exception.  Would I do it again?  Not after knowing what I have learned here on TUG.  Do I regret my purchases?  Not really.  Eagle Crest has turned out to be a great trader for me, and Club Regina has allowed me to travel all over Mexico, the Rockies and Hawaii without the hassle of exchanging or paying any fees.  Sally I'm glad you enjoy the Grand Mayan, I just don't think you'll have any luck convincing folks here that it's better to spend thousands more than you need to for the same service.


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## sally (Feb 13, 2006)

*convincing tuggers?*

hard core tuggers are too set in thier ways to open thier minds to a different point of view,I believe.I first came here because I saw an unfair slant, lumping in a (RABID) sales force, with a top quality resort.In my expierience,like arms of a corporation one is not always as well as the other.I thought it unfair that you tuggers were influencing people who really never heard of the mayan palace before.I wanted to right a wrong and put in my views on this.There are many people who never get to enjoy timesharing because they were scared into thinking it was for fools.I never was so delighted to find out how much $$$$ we saved from our fist t-s.We saved by having a kitchen and not having to eat out always.I calculated the savings into the tens of thousands over the years.This is very important to so many young families.You savy garage salers scare me! (with some of your rigid thoughts) well any way, I see this has been a lesson in futility, for me. I hope my view has pulled some heads out of some holes and people relize the baby is in the bath water.  

I for one do not like to be called a deciever,when I put so much of myself out here for you guys to carve up!

Hey PAT! want to buy a Mayan palace time-share???
(just kidding)  

so long,sally


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## Larry (Feb 13, 2006)

quiltergal said:
			
		

> Seems to me if I am remembering your assertions correctly that the MR *KNOWS WHO BOUGHT FROM THE DEVELOPER*  that the older couple should not have had to complain.  Anybody who pays top dollar should be treated like royalty according to your theory.  If your theory holds true then someone who exchanged in should have been bumped to the Sea Gardens not the top dollar couple.  I'd be a little uneasy if I were you.  One day you could be that couple.
> 
> .



Sally :That was my point exactly as Quiltergal stated why should they have to complain since they paid top dollar and as you assert the developer should know that they bought a developer week so someone who exchanged in should have been bumped to the Sea Garden to make room for their customer so they can be "treated like royalty".

Also I do agree with your statement that MP is a top notch product so if you get a chance read my recent review on my stay at the MP Acapulco entitled 
" This is the best resort I have ever stayed at".


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## Kevin (Feb 13, 2006)

sally said:
			
		

> I feel like A broken record...
> 
> sally



Sally... NO... you don't sound like a "broken record"!   

Though it may seem like we TUGgers don't respect your opinion... I'm sure most do.

You're just not going to change many minds on this subject... you can continue to wave the flag of the MP if you so choose.   

Respectfully,

Kevin


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## davilin88 (Feb 26, 2006)

Last time I was at M.P. N.V., which I love, I asked the woman who tried to talk me into yet another presentation if anyone there ever read the comments on this and rci community bbs about their sales staff. She said she knew nothing about all the negative opinions. Maybe more people can point this out to them. Meanwhile, I look forward to many great vacations to come at M.P.


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## JudyS (Feb 26, 2006)

I have never stayed at a resort in Mexico, and am debating what one to start with.  Are the Mayan palace resorts really better than the Royals?




			
				california-bighorn said:
			
		

> When you buy a re-sale the resort rarely, if ever, has any idea what the re-sale price was.


Just a quick comment -- in some US states (and perhaps other locations), property taxes are based on sales price, and resorts may handle the billing of these taxes.  So, some resorts (or rather, the resort management) can tell what you paid resale.


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## quiltergal (Feb 26, 2006)

That's only true with deeded property.  All Mexican resorts are Right to Use.  You don't own anything but the time.


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## california-bighorn (Feb 26, 2006)

Judy S     I wish your premise were true about the property tax being based on the sales price. I would have minimal tax liability (and lower maintenance fees) on the Mexican timeshare I purchased for $2 on ebay. 
Marty
PS  now you've really got me thinking how they determine the tax. Probably take the value of the whole resort then divide with some formula of the # of units and the size of the units.


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## tonyg (Feb 26, 2006)

I think the taxes in Mexico (referred to as "asset tax") are based on a valuation of the property. The resort pays it and then bills (or overbills) the members proportionally. I doubt if many people even have seen what the actual tax is.


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## royalholidayclubbed (Mar 21, 2006)

*Taxes?*



			
				tonyg said:
			
		

> I think the taxes in Mexico (referred to as "asset tax") are based on a valuation of the property. The resort pays it and then bills (or overbills) the members proportionally. I doubt if many people even have seen what the actual tax is.



Excuse my ignorance on this subject .. . but are you saying that property taxes are levied on timeshare owners (weeks) on properties in Mexico? Even though they only have right-of-use and are not the "real" owners?

So these taxes are paid in addition to normal maintenance fees?
Or did I pick up the post in the wrong way?


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## JudyS (Mar 22, 2006)

royalholidayclubbed said:
			
		

> Excuse my ignorance on this subject .. . but are you saying that property taxes are levied on timeshare owners (weeks) on properties in Mexico? Even though they only have right-of-use and are not the "real" owners?
> 
> So these taxes are paid in addition to normal maintenance fees?
> Or did I pick up the post in the wrong way?



I don't know about Mexico, but DVC ownerships are right-to-use, and still get socked with property tax.  A lot of property tax, in fact -- about 12 times what I pay for my North Carolina timeshare.


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## debkay_w (Mar 25, 2006)

*Wowie!*

You are all scaring me!  We just purchased a resale MP 2BR lockout.  I WAS happy about it, but now I'm not so sure.  We spent little and got a lockout with available extra week for price of maintenance fee.  Sounded good to me.   Where did we go wrong with a resale??????        

Thanks
Deb


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