# Please help me plan our first trip



## janej (Nov 12, 2010)

We have been thinking about visiting Europe for long time, but so far have not got into the planning stage.  We are limited by school calendars and usually plan my timeshare exchange far in advance.  We have two boys age 12 and 14.

My first big question is if I should even think about using timeshare. If so, what resorts/areas are good candidate for the first trip.   Which exchange company provides the best selections?  We have pretty strong traders.


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## x3 skier (Nov 12, 2010)

*It depends*

A lot depends on what you want to see. If you are into the big cities, Timeshares are a pretty poor choice since most are in the countryside in Europe. If you want to see the country side, Canal boats, for example, in Britain are nice as are the Timeshares in resort areas.

A plan I have used is to take an organized tour the first time I visit regions / countries. After that, I always make my own arrangements since I have a pretty good idea what I do and do not want to look at on the next visit(s).

Cheers


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## janej (Nov 12, 2010)

Mitch,

Thanks for the suggestion.  It does make sense to start with a tour.  Will you please suggest some good tour companies?

Jane


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## x3 skier (Nov 12, 2010)

janej said:


> Mitch,
> 
> Thanks for the suggestion.  It does make sense to start with a tour.  Will you please suggest some good tour companies?
> 
> Jane



One I have used a number of times in the past is Grand European Tours www.getours.com. One reason I like them is they have what they call "Super Leisure" or something like that where you stay in some places for two or more days. As a minor train buff, I took their train tour across Europe and really enjoyed it. Another good way is a river cruise through Europe since you can unpack once and only pack again at the end.

Cheers

PS, the Quote is by Mitch Hedberg, and I am actually Rick.


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## DeniseM (Nov 12, 2010)

For a first trip, you might want to start with the UK, where everyone speaks English.

In the UK, I don't think you need a tour at all.  Note that many times tour groups are mostly senior citizens.  Nothing wrong with that, but maybe not a good match for 2 active boys.


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## Carolinian (Nov 12, 2010)

I would concur with a first trip to the UK, but for variety I would add Ireland, which also speaks English, or the Netherlands where a large number of people speak English as well as their native Dutch.  That will make you more comfortable on your first trip.

There is another good reason for the combination.  The UK socks air passengers with very heavy long haul departure taxes.  By flying into the UK and then out of another country, you avoid that.  An LCC can get you cheaply to Ireland or the Netherlands with only a much smaller short haul departure tax.  A ticket where you fly into one place and out of another is called an 'open jaws'' ticket and is priced at half the round trip fare of one city pair plus half the round trip fare of the other.

London is an obvious must in the UK, and you could easily spend a week in and around London, including easy day trips to places like Windsor Castle and Hampton Court Palace.  Other easy day trips include Oxford, Cambridge, and the historic ships at Portsmouth.

For the Netherlands, I would pick Amrsterdam for a first trip and for Ireland Dublin.

Personally, I avoid guided tours because it is rare that your interests are going to track exactly with those of a tour guide.  Some places you want to spend more time, you will get moved along and others that you don't care much about, the guide will dwell on at length.  I have done exactly two guided tours in my own travel in Europe, both to places where there were some security concerns, a day trip from Spain to Tangier, Morrocco and a week long trip to Moscow and St. Petersburg a year or so after Communism fell.  In Morrocco, the guide wasted a good hour with a guy trying to sell us rugs and in Russia, the scheduling of the tour of St. Petersburg was so disappointing that in Moscow I left the guide and went around on my own.  There is absolutely no reason to feel insecure enough to have to take a guided tour in the UK or indeed in most of western Europe.  A good guidebook will let you go at your own pace and see the things that are important to you.  That said, a good introduction to many cities is the common hop-on hop-off tour buses.  For a first trip, they are a good way to get the lay of the land.

As to timeshares, Allen House is one of the hardest to get timeshares anywhere but it is bang in central London and would be ideal for a first trip.


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## nalismom (Nov 12, 2010)

I would have a look at Rick Steve's site...ricksteves.com...They do an all Europe tour and some of them are for families.

We did one in 2007 to Rome, Venice and Florence - 10 days...small group 24-26 people...for a first tour ...I would go with Rick...you are not herded around in buses, have one guide to accompany you everywhere throughout your time as well as local guides specific to the location.  He does not use big hotels but rather smaller pensiones.  His tours have a good balance between being guided and on tour and having free-time with good suggestions to explore on your own.

Here's his link for his 14 day all-Europe - Family:

http://tours.ricksteves.com/tours11/product.cfm/rurl/code/EFF11/229


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## elaine (Nov 12, 2010)

*we just did 3 weeks in Europe with 3 kids and Mum*

DH and I, 3 kids, 9-13 and my mother went to Europe for 3 weeks in August.  It is so easy to plan a trip yourself, there is no need for a tour.  I do like Rick Steves and planned a lot of my trip based upon his books and bulletin boards--but the cost for the tour was much more than I spent on our trip. Some questions to ask:
budget
do you have FF tickets, or are you paying for airfare
does anyone speak any language to communicate at all, even badly in French, Spanish, Italian
Have you or DH been to Europe--comfort with train system
what do kids want to see? how interested in history are they?

There is a lot to do in the UK, and even just in London. You could easily do London and then take a cheap flight somewhere else different and fly back from that city. Of course, you can take the Eurostar to Paris, but flying is sometimes cheaper. I would add Italy to the UK for a fun trip and good variety. It is easy to get from Florence to Rome and ages 12-14 would love the Coloseum and roman stuff.  It is quite easy to get around in either city with only English. There are a number of tours you can take, also.  I suggest look on viator.com to get an idea of the different things to do in various European cities.

Using timeshares is difficult at prime times in prime places in Europe--also we did not want to get a car, so that rules out many places. Feel free to PM me with other questions. Elaine (also from NOVA).


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## beejaybeeohio (Nov 13, 2010)

*Using timeshares*

While it is true that only a few European timeshares are in the main cities, my plan is to find resorts that have the bedroom count, and amenities I desire regardless of location, put in an ongoing search for a range of acceptable dates and then, when a match is made, research the surroundings and explore from the timeshare. 

Our first timeshare trade across the pond was to the Osbourne Club in Torquay, England.  I knew nothing about that area, but once booked I did all I could to learn about the nearby points of interest and there was lots to explore, eg. Dartmoor Nat'l Park, Dartmouth via steam engine, boat & bus, Cockington, etc.

A few years ago, DD & SIL joined us at Marco Polo Club Alpina in Austria along with our grandsons ages 11, 8 and 5.  We found lots to do- visiting Salzburg, the Svarowski visitor's center, salt mines and hiking.  Prior to meeting us, they traveled thru the Netherlands and Germany independently.

It is a savings to be able to use a t/s.  Driving in Europe is on the right side of the road, but the UK & Ireland it's on the left which could be a factor.
Rick Steves' tours appeal, but they are spendy. Plus with any tour, you are held to the pace of the slowest group member.


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## elaine (Nov 13, 2010)

*we wanted to use timeshares*

since you have 4 persons and can stay in a 1 BR, you will have better luck. We had 6 persons and so were more limited in what TS we could use. Same with the car--we needed a minivan, which is $$ in Europe. Since this was our one big trip to Europe for at least 5+ years, we wanted to see a lot and didn't want to take an outof the way TS, just to save $$--give the effort and expense to fly.
But with 4 persons, and a car, you should have better luck. I would recommend resorts in Germany and Austria. There are several that get very high rating that are seen on RCI as trades for 1 BR---put a search in ASAP.  If you got 1 week in a TS in Germany/Austria, then I would combine that with a 3 day stay on the front and back ends in different cities, as the TS will most likely be in a more rural setting. So, for example, you could fly into Munich for 3 days (look on viator.com to see all the fun day tours you can take--or to just get an idea how to plan your trip), get car the last day, drive to TS for the week, at the ned of the week, drive to the border of Germany/Austria ($$$ to take car over the border), and hop a train to Italy for 3 days and fly home out of Rome.  That way, you save $$ on the TS and can explore for the week, and you get 2 great European cities, as well. There are so many great cities in Europe, if you find a TS for the week in an area with a few day trips of interest, you can easily find a good city within a 5-8 hour train ride with a totally different cutlure and feel. Elaine


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## Carolinian (Nov 13, 2010)

If you are looking at Austria, I would suggest two timeshares, Schloss Grubhof in St. Martin bei Lofer and Hotel Deutschmesiter in Vienna.

Schloss Grubhof is not as difficult to trade into as London, and is 45 minutes drive from the wonderful city of Salzburg, 45 minutes from Bertesgaden, a bit over an hour from Innsbruck and an hour and a half or so from Munich.  The resort is a 14th century castle that once belonged to the Bavarian royal family, and you cannot beat the ambiance.  I think your kids would love visiting the various castles in the area and staying in their very own castle.

Hotel Deutschmeister has only a few units that are timeshare, and only a few of those are sizable units, but it is well located in Vienna, a couple of blocks from the Ring, a few hundred feet from a subway station, and walking distance to many sights.  It is not an easy trade, but is easier than Allen House.  Not only does Vienna itself have a lot to see, but if you wanted to avoid renting a car, there are easy day trips by train or by hydrofoil down the Danube to Bratislava, Slovakia, a great city, or by train to medieval Sopron, Hungary.  Even Budapest is a long but doable day trip by train from Vienna.

As to guidebooks, Rick Steves is okay for the big cities but he has LOTS of gaps when you get outside the cities.  If you want to see more than just cities, the Rough Guide and Lonely Planet guidebook series are much better, as they cover the areas outside the cities much more thoroughly.


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## Carolinian (Nov 13, 2010)

If you are looking for timeshares in European cities, the best way to go is to buy into Hapimag.  They now trade some of their resorts through DAE and DRI, but mostly they just trade internally.  They have resorts in European cities including London, Paris, Prague, Budapest, Munich, Berlin, Athens, Vienna, Rome, etc.




beejaybeeohio said:


> While it is true that only a few European timeshares are in the main cities, my plan is to find resorts that have the bedroom count, and amenities I desire regardless of location, put in an ongoing search for a range of acceptable dates and then, when a match is made, research the surroundings and explore from the timeshare.
> 
> Our first timeshare trade across the pond was to the Osbourne Club in Torquay, England.  I knew nothing about that area, but once booked I did all I could to learn about the nearby points of interest and there was lots to explore, eg. Dartmoor Nat'l Park, Dartmouth via steam engine, boat & bus, Cockington, etc.
> 
> ...


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## Carol C (Nov 14, 2010)

beejaybeeohio said:


> While it is true that only a few European timeshares are in the main cities, my plan is to find resorts that have the bedroom count, and amenities I desire regardless of location, put in an ongoing search for a range of acceptable dates and then, when a match is made, research the surroundings and explore from the timeshare.



I agree with this "homebase" strategy. I once visited the UK and used the Scandanavian Village timeshare resort as my homebase in Scotland. The Aviemore train station is an easy 10 min walk from the very comfy timeshare units in a pastoral setting. I had a two-br and it was not hard to get into via RCI...and I didn't have to use a tiger trader either. It was July a few years back. You could buy a Scot-rail pass...and go see all corners of Scotland right from Aviemore.


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## Carol C (Nov 15, 2010)

Carolinian said:


> I would concur with a first trip to the UK, but for variety I would add Ireland, which also speaks English, or the Netherlands where a large number of people speak English as well as their native Dutch.  That will make you more comfortable on your first trip.
> 
> There is another good reason for the combination.  The UK socks air passengers with very heavy long haul departure taxes.  By flying into the UK and then out of another country, you avoid that.



Carolinian, is there a hefty departure tax from Dublin to the USA...or is it just London Heathrow? Thanks!


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## Carolinian (Nov 16, 2010)

Carol C said:


> Carolinian, is there a hefty departure tax from Dublin to the USA...or is it just London Heathrow? Thanks!



Dublin's taxes are reasonable.  It is all UK airports, not just Heathrow with the massive tax.  The German airport tax has just been raised to help fund their part of the Greek bailout, bt it is not as bad as the UK.  France has a smaller nuisance tax on air tickets to fund social programs in the third world, but it is lower than the UK or Germany.  The Netherlands imposed a large tax for a year or so to ''save the planet'' but so many people quit using their airport and airlines that they repealed it.


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## x3 skier (Nov 16, 2010)

Carolinian said:


> Dublin's taxes are reasonable.  It is all UK airports, not just Heathrow with the massive tax.  The German airport tax has just been raised to help fund their part of the Greek bailout, bt it is not as bad as the UK.  France has a smaller nuisance tax on air tickets to fund social programs in the third world, but it is lower than the UK or Germany.  The Netherlands imposed a large tax for a year or so to ''save the planet'' but so many people quit using their airport and airlines that they repealed it.



For my last trip to our timeshare at The Allen House in Oct, I flew in and out of CDG (nightmare that it can be but not this time). I saved enough on not paying the UK taxes of my FF Biz Class Ticket to pay for the Eurostar Round trip to London as well as a couple of days in Paris. I did have points for the Hilton @ CDG stay so that was not a consideration.

It does pay to check the total price of a ticket to see what is truly a better fare. In fact, I am flying into AMS this week for much the same reason since it is considerably lower tax than the UK.

Cheers


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## janej (Nov 16, 2010)

Thanks a lot everyone for the information!  I looks like we will have to plan multiple trips once we get started  

I am going to compile a list of timeshares and put in request for 2012.  What exchange company should I look into?  I already have RCI and II, but I have not used any others.   I will look into DAE and DRI as Carolinian suggested.  Any other companies good for exchanging to Europe?


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## Carolinian (Nov 17, 2010)

The United Kingdom Resort Exchange (UKRE) has a partner relationship with the Hawaii Timeshare Exchange (HTSE), but I have never used either of them.

SFX has access to resorts is the UK, Austria, Spain, France, and some other countries.  There is one London resort, Sloan Gardens Club, which only trades through SFX, after they ditched RCI some years ago.  You can look at the SFX resorts in Europe on their website, www.sfx-resorts.com


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## caribbeansun (Nov 18, 2010)

I guess I have a different perspective on just about the whole thing:

- I would not use TS for Europe, particularly if you want a flavour of different parts.

- I would not use a bus tour - personally I can't think of a worse way to travel because I don't want my schedule dictated by the slowest person nor do I want to give up control of where I stay at night or what I see during the day.

- I would either rent a car and tour on my own or use a cruise in combination with pre and post stays in major European cities.

- I think the language piece isn't an issue in Europe for the most part and it tends to get more air time than warranted (IMO) - I've had no issues with being understood in any European country I've visited which are quite a few (other than Spain and Portugal I've been to almost every other western European country).  Sometimes you have to be a bit creative in your communication but otherwise it is very rare that you can't convey what it is you want or what is needed of you.  For that reason I wouldn't necessarily pick the UK as the first place to visit as they don't have the best weather at times BUT it really depends on what you are interested in.

Thought I'd provide a counterpoint to the other posts to demonstrate that your choices are only limited to your imagination.

Whichever you choose I wish you a wonderful trip!


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## falmouth3 (Nov 18, 2010)

I agree with many of the points made here.  DH loved England as his first trip over the pond.  He said it was Europe for beginners.  I also wouldn't want a TS if you are planning on seeing several different areas in Europe.  

However, if you want to do one city, such as London, SFX does have Sloane Gardens, which I was able to book for a friend of mine and he and his wife loved it.  There are several Sloane Gardens weeks available right now on the SFX sell off list, but they aren't during weeks when kids are off from school - they are winter weeks.  Still, if you wanted to go there in the winter those sell off week are a bargain.

Amsterdam is easy to get around because we didn't run into even one person who didn't speak English.  We went during tulip time but because it was a cold winter, it was daffodil time.   Still pretty and some of the early tulips were up and blooming.


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## LGinPA (Nov 29, 2010)

Hi!

I totally understand that you'd want to take advantage of your TS and exchange for a stay in Europe.  There is no doubt that it saves money on accommodations and food.  We do it and we make it work. 

However I agree that TS is not the best way to see Europe, but applying the "home base" concept can work well.  But be careful  not to extend your day trips so far out from "home base" or you'll spend most of your vacation in a car.  Try to explore and enjoy the local sights (no matter how small) in the "home" area.  You'll have a much better time.   

Another concept we learned is to add days to the front and/or back end of your exchange week at a hotel/B&B/Agriturismo/Guest house, etc to extend your trip to outlying areas.  Stay a minimum of 2 nights, 3 is best.  Yes, the cost of those nights do add up.  But you'll be spending so much $ on the airfare to get over there, why not extend your stay? 

We recently did this with Ireland with our exchange to the Southwest Killarney area.  While we totally enjoyed the local sites there and touring the Ring of Kerry and Dingle areas, we added nights at B&B's near Galway and ended in Ennis since that was closer to the Shannon airport.    

I do agree anywhere in UK/Ireland is a good first experience, only if you're willing to drive on the left.  Costa Del Sol Spain is a very good choice,  too, Great roads, drive on right, but don't go in the summer since it's too hot and crowded.  Exchanges into Costa Del Sol are easy other times of year and it's lovely in the spring.  Add a couple of nights in Sevilla or Granada or a white village and you have yourself a great first trip to Europe.  

Consider flying into the city closest to your TS town, and fly out of another city.  Sometimes this does not cost any more. 

I say go for it!  Put in exchange requests for several Europe vacations destinations and see what comes up. 

Have fun!


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