# Upscale at Hilton?



## 4Sunsets (Apr 27, 2019)

As new owners, it's been really hard for us to find out which resorts are upscale, which are modest, which have been renovated. The last being more important than anything else. marriott has high mf, but the resorts are impeccably maintained (for the most part). hilton seems to have a 10-year cycle vs a 5/7.


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## SmithOp (Apr 27, 2019)

4Sunsets said:


> As new owners, it's been really hard for us to find out which resorts are upscale, which are modest, which have been renovated. The last being more important than anything else. marriott has high mf, but the resorts are impeccably maintained (for the most part). hilton seems to have a 10-year cycle vs a 5/7.



I’ve stayed at HGVC and Marriott and find them to be equal, not sure where you are getting the information that HGVC is not as impeccably maintained.

Did you stay at a particular HGVC and get a bad impression?  Why did you decide to buy?


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## 4Sunsets (Apr 27, 2019)

we're new and dont have access yet to the system. nothing against hgvc, and we do look forward to using. however, a few of the units we stayed at wjth friends were dated (orlando, hikton head, myrtle)


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## tompalm (Apr 27, 2019)

More important to me is the flexibility that Hilton has with points.  I have not been to Marriott in years and when I was looking at them, they had a weekly program.  I can stay at Hilton for three nights or three weeks or longer if I use two years of points. I can stay in a studio, 1, 2 or 3 bedroom when I want. Marriott and Hilton are very equal in most regards to being upscale. I did see valet only at the Marriott resorts I visited where Hilton had valet as an option and also self park. Marriott wants to appear as more upscale, but I don’t think they are. I am glad that I own Hilton.


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## GT75 (Apr 27, 2019)

4Sunsets said:


> a few of the units we stayed at wjth friends were dated (orlando, hikton head, myrtle)



Ocean Oak on Hilton Head Island Phase I is only about 2 years old and Phase II just finished in April.   HGVC has 3 properties in Myrtle Beach, Anderson Ocean Club, Ocean 22 and Ocean Enclave.    Ocean 22 opened about 3-4 years ago and Ocean Enclave is opening soon.


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## 4Sunsets (Apr 27, 2019)

tompalm said:


> More important to me is the flexibility that Hilton has with points.  I have not been to Marriott in years and when I was looking at them, they had a weekly program.  I can stay at Hilton for three nights or three weeks or longer if I use two years of points. I can stay in a studio, 1, 2 or 3 bedroom when I want. Marriott and Hilton are very equal in most regards to being upscale. I did see valet only at the Marriott resorts I visited where Hilton had valet as an option and also self park. Marriott wants to appear as more upscale, but I don’t think they are. I am glad that I own Hilton.



it's the same for marriott from 1 night to whatever, bank or pull forward, stay at studio to three bedroom, etc. marriott includes parking just about everywhere for owners, hilton doesnt seem to though. 

@GT75 thank you. it was anderson. never been to ocean 22 but thought it was older. ocean oak looks nice but was construction this year whe we were i area


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## GT75 (Apr 27, 2019)

4Sunsets said:


> it was anderson.



Well, AOC is older and actually wasn't a HGVC original build.


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## frank808 (Apr 28, 2019)

I have found the refurb cycles to be longer at Hilton like OP posted.  We stay at Marriott Koolina, Hilton Lagoon, Grand Waikikian, Kalia, Grand Islander and Hokulani regularly every year.  I have found just the grand islander and hokulani to have furniture that is not as worn out, but those towers have just opened about 2-3 years ago.  Have seen the same worn furniture in lagoon tower for almost 8 years until there was a soft good refurb last year.  During that same time,  Marriott Koolina went through a soft good refurb and another hard refurbishment.  

I am not complaining as the mf for lagoon is about $500 cheaper a year than Marriott koolina for a comparable 2br unit.  

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## csodjd (Apr 28, 2019)

frank808 said:


> I am not complaining as the mf for lagoon is about $500 cheaper a year than Marriott koolina for a comparable 2br unit.


And that's the thing. Want refurb more frequently? It's easy... just pay higher MF fees. It's a give and take. Spend more, get more. I will say that I just finished up a week at the Lagoon Tower and found nothing worn or old at all. I believe they are in the process right now of refurbishing.


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## Remy (Apr 28, 2019)

If you think Marriott’s are impeccably maintained, I invite you to visit their ski resorts next season. The ‘80’s called. They want their timeshares back.


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## TravelTime (Apr 28, 2019)

I prefer to pay $500 more a year and get better overall maintenance. I agree that Marriott time shares are generally well maintained. However, their sofas in the living rooms tend to not be good quality for the use they get. I have been to a couple MVCs in the past year where the sofa was hard, cushions fell into the sofa bed, etc. So I would sit on the chairs instead.


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## ljmiii (Apr 28, 2019)

4Sunsets said:


> As new owners, it's been really hard for us to find out which resorts are upscale, which are modest, which have been renovated. The last being more important than anything else. marriott has high mf, but the resorts are impeccably maintained (for the most part). hilton seems to have a 10-year cycle vs a 5/7.


To answer your question, I look at tripadvisor and yelp for reviews (their reviewers have different biases) and sometimes oyster to see photos.  If you read through a few pages of reviews you can usually get a good sense of the condition of the resort, the quality of the service, the benefits of the location, and anything out of the ordinary (both good and bad).  An example where this was useful to us was Southern California where we realized that none of the HGVC Carlsbad locations fired on enough cylinders (for us) to compete with Newport Coast.

But we've stayed in the MVC and HGVC locations in South Beach and found them more or less equivalent. And in Hawaii, the Lagoon Tower and Bay Club are comparable in quality to Waiohai, MOC, and Ko Olina (though obviously all five are quite different with amazing pluses and some minuses to all of them).


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## TravelTime (Apr 28, 2019)

ljmiii said:


> To answer your question, I look at tripadvisor and yelp for reviews (their reviewers have different biases) and sometimes oyster to see photos.  If you read through a few pages of reviews you can usually get a good sense of the condition of the resort, the quality of the service, the benefits of the location, and anything out of the ordinary (both good and bad).  An example where this was useful to us was Southern California where we realized that none of the HGVC Carlsbad locations fired on enough cylinders (for us) to compete with Newport Coast.
> 
> But we've stayed in the MVC and HGVC locations in South Beach and found them more or less equivalent. And in Hawaii, the Lagoon Tower and Bay Club are comparable in quality to Waiohai, MOC, and Ko Olina (though obviously all five are quite different with amazing pluses and some minuses to all of them).



I have not stayed at any Hilton Vacation Clubs in Hawaii. If all things are equal between Hilton and Marriott in Hawaii, then I would much prefer Marriott because they have better locations and they are on more islands than Hilton.


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## bizaro86 (Apr 28, 2019)

Interesting - I would say HGVC and Westin are both generally a half step up from Marriott. Different strokes, obviously.


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## SteelerGal (Apr 28, 2019)

I believe they are comparable.  We have mostly stayed in SD HGVC properties.  San Diego laid back lifestyle for sure.  When I did visit Marriott Newport, I personally felt like it was an Irvine Company facility.  And it was crowded, which isn’t relaxing to me.  Nor the sprawling campus that required more walking.  Amenities are top notch though.  However being local and having stayed at many of the top notch hotels in the area, it makes sense Marriott keeps Newport in top shape.  Similarly to The Desert area.  Competition.


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## 4Sunsets (Apr 28, 2019)

thanks everyone, good insights. personally, my family really enjoys ko olina, it's really well maintained. marriott newport is another one we really enjoy. not sure how it could be crowded compared to carlsbad. newport is all by itself and spread out over many acres.

MF are important to us, which is why we started looking at hilton. but honestly if we bought marriott weeks in the same places as our hilton weeks, the mf would be about the same.  marriott, however, doesnt treat new resales well anymore.

 mf in hawaii weeks has always been high at marriott, but hilton mf in hawaii is comparable, which is why i was wondering why refurb cycles were so long. marriott does soft/hard refurb like clockwork at 5/7. hard refurb includes exteriors n such to. 

i couldnt find the refurb schedule for hilton in our paperwork.


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## 4Sunsets (Apr 28, 2019)

TravelTime said:


> I have not stayed at any Hilton Vacation Clubs in Hawaii. If all things are equal between Hilton and Marriott in Hawaii, then I would much prefer Marriott because they have better locations and they are on more islands than Hilton.



we have stayed at all of the marriott hawaii properties multiple times. we own 4 hawaii weeks. we've enjoyed all of them. we're looking forward to hilton on oahu too, so thanks for the comments about hhv.


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## 4Sunsets (Apr 28, 2019)

Remy said:


> If you think Marriott’s are impeccably maintained, I invite you to visit their ski resorts next season. The ‘80’s called. They want their timeshares back.


 i would agree in part. there are several low point options, that are what they are. but 1/2 to 1/3 the point cost, so if u want to save on points. otherwise, spend the points to stay at tahoe grand or timber or rc  you cant go wrong there. or in colorado vail n such r great properties.

points costs are one thing i dont understand about hilton. the points are pretty much the same from hawaii to hilton head for like season/room. how is this possible? an orlando 2bedroom isnt the same as a hawaii 2bedroom. also i read about a points change in hawaii and i see this. some locations are in what was called the old point system while others are in the new point system.


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## Remy (Apr 28, 2019)

4Sunsets said:


> i would agree in part. there are several low point options, that are what they are. but 1/2 to 1/3 the point cost, so if u want to save on points. otherwise, spend the points to stay at tahoe grand or timber or rc  you cant go wrong there. or in colorado vail n such r great properties.
> 
> points costs are one thing i dont understand about hilton. the points are pretty much the same from hawaii to hilton head for like season/room. how is this possible? an orlando 2bedroom isnt the same as a hawaii 2bedroom. also i read about a points change in hawaii and i see this. some locations are in what was called the old point system while others are in the new point system.



I was at Streamside in Vail a few weeks ago. It specifically is my reason for questioning the "impeccably maintained" portion of your comment. I'll refrain from offering a review here, and instead note that the variance I've found in maintenance at Marriott, Hyatt and HGVC among properties of varying ages is very similar.


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## 4Sunsets (Apr 28, 2019)

Remy said:


> I was at Streamside in Vail a few weeks ago. It specifically is my reason for questioning the "impeccably maintained" portion of your comment. I'll refrain from offering a review here, and instead note that the variance I've found in maintenance at Marriott, Hyatt and HGVC among properties of varying ages is very similar.



streamside is low end, one of the ones i was referring too. cheap points are cheap stays, it's why streamsidd is 1/8 the points in mud season. vail, i meant ritzcarlton.

Streamside is 675 points right now for an entire week.... in contrast it is 6750 for a maui tower week. one is a$270 stay for a week in MF, the other $2K for a week in MF.

For 2500 points, you could have stayed in a 2bedroom at vail ritz carlton, in the current season. you would be treated like royalty at a MF cost lf $1K.


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## Remy (Apr 28, 2019)

4Sunsets said:


> streamside is low end, one of the ones i was referring too. cheap points are cheap stays, it's why streamsidd is 1/3 the points. vail, i meant ritzcarlton.


I guess it's hard to argue with that. If Ritz-Carlton Vail is your measuring stick, you will definitely be disappointed with your stays at almost every HGVC. Hyatt has a very nice resort on Maui you might enjoy, however.


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## ljmiii (Apr 28, 2019)

4Sunsets said:


> we have stayed at all of the marriott hawaii properties multiple times. we own 4 hawaii weeks. we've enjoyed all of them. we're looking forward to hilton on oahu too, so thanks for the comments about hhv.


HGVC's Lagoon Tower and MVCI's Waiohai are our two favorite Hawaii resorts. The Lagoon tower because it is on the ocean in Waikiki. Close to all of Honolulu's Hawaiiana destinations (Bishop, Chinatown, Iolani, Punchbowl, Pali, Queen Emma, etc.) and with some of the world's best eats in walking distance or a short drive away. Waiohai because Kauai is a lush garden paradise and Waiohai sits on one of the world's great beaches - Poipu - with snorkeling, swimming, and wildlife literally steps from your villa. We also really like the towns of Kauai's South Shore - Koloa, Hanapepe, Waimei, etc.

We've also stayed at MOC, Ko Olina, and the Bay Club...all of which have their pluses and minuses.


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## 4Sunsets (Apr 28, 2019)

ljmiii said:


> I guess it's hard to argue with that. If Ritz-Carlton Vail is your measuring stick, you will definitely be disappointed with your stays at almost every HGVC. Hyatt has a very nice resort on Maui you might enjoy, however.



thanks, wasn't meaning it had to be so upscale as Ritz Carlton. Really just meant to point out that Streamside is a very low end property -- $270 for an entire week ($40/day) is bargain basement, so you get what you pay for. also wanted to point out the extreme value of RC Vail this time of year at $1k / week in points.



> HGVC's Lagoon Tower and MVCI's Waiohai are our two favorite Hawaii resorts. The Lagoon tower because it is on the ocean in Waikiki. Close to all of Honolulu's Hawaiiana destinations (Bishop, Chinatown, Iolani, Punchbowl, Pali, Queen Emma, etc.) and with some of the world's best eats in walking distance or a short drive away. Waiohai because Kauai is a lush garden paradise and Waiohai sits on one of the world's great beaches - Poipu - with snorkeling, swimming, and wildlife literally steps from your villa. We also really like the towns of Kauai's South Shore - Koloa, Hanapepe, Waimei, etc.
> 
> We've also stayed at MOC, Ko Olina, and the Bay Club...all of which have their pluses and minuses.



Thank you! Everyone is saying Lagoon Tower, so really looking forward to a first stay there.


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## alwysonvac (Apr 28, 2019)

4Sunsets said:


> Thank you! Everyone is saying Lagoon Tower, so really looking forward to a first stay there.



JMHO... Based on the discussion in this thread, I think you’ll be disappointed with the Lagoon Tower. I suggest a high floor in the newest HHV tower (Grand Islander). I think that would be a better option for you.






Grand Islander 2502 - https://tugbbs.com/forums/index.php?threads/grand-islander-2502.264671/​

*The Lagoon tower isn’t for everyone. *See this older thread.
From a TUG member titled “my opinion on hhv” (2010) - https://tugbbs.com/forums/index.php?threads/my-opnion-on-hhv.114130


Here’s a comparison I wrote in another thread.



alwysonvac said:


> There are four timeshare towers at the Hilton Hawaiian Village. All four towers are nice. The choice really depends on what’s more important to you in terms of view and amenities and the number of points you want to use. For example some folks simply don’t care about the view.
> 
> There are lots of old threads about each of the towers. You can locate them by simply searching by tower name - Lagoon, Kalia, Waikikian or Islander
> 
> ...





alwysonvac said:


> I agree and the point requirements are similar.
> 
> Platinum Season: Weeks 1–18, 23–35, 42–52* (Daily and weekly points listed below)*
> 
> ...


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## HatTrick (Apr 29, 2019)

*Lagoon Tower...*
Cons: Washer & dryer centrally located on each floor

I wouldn't say they're _centrally_ located.


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## Ralph Sir Edward (Apr 29, 2019)

4Sunsets said:


> streamside is low end, one of the ones i was referring too. cheap points are cheap stays, it's why streamsidd is 1/8 the points in mud season. vail, i meant ritzcarlton.
> 
> Streamside is 675 points right now for an entire week.... in contrast it is 6750 for a maui tower week. one is a$270 stay for a week in MF, the other $2K for a week in MF.
> 
> For 2500 points, you could have stayed in a 2bedroom at vail ritz carlton, in the current season. you would be treated like royalty at a MF cost lf $1K.



To me, mud week in the mountains is still mud week in the mountains, no matter how upscale the resort. No interest, even for free.

In every system, there are overvalues and undervalues. I find it easier to find an undervalued resort in the Hilton system than the Marriott system. YMMV

Example: I have penthouse weeks at the Bay Club in Waikoloa. $1608 a week MFs this year. Compared to $2500+ for MOC, 2300+ for Ko Olina, and 2100+ for Waiohai. Or for that matter Sabal/Royal Palms in Orlando which run $1300+. (All winter high season). So I can get Hawaii at nearly Marriott Orlando prices - a little over $200 a week more. (I used to own at Royal Palms; Bay Club and the Palms are pretty much the same quality and amenity wise.) To go Marriott in Hawaii, you are talking $500 to nearly $1000 a week more, and that is if you buy weeks resale. If you go high season with points, you are talking an additional $500 a week more. Say $1000 to $1500 a week more. Do that for a 4 week stay and there is premium economy airfare for 2 and a rental car, paid for by the difference. Great value for money, as the British would say. . .


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## taffy19 (Apr 29, 2019)

alwysonvac said:


> JMHO... Based on the discussion in this thread, I think you’ll be disappointed with the Lagoon Tower. I suggest a high floor in the newest HHV tower (Grand Islander). I think that would be a better option for you.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I believe that you are right because the condos at the Grand Islander are really nice if the luxury of a condo is #1 on someone’s list and even for the 1 BR too.

However, the OP’s username is 4Sunsets so the Lagoon Tower may have a greater chance to score a beautiful sunset view and would require less points too, I assume.


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## TravelTime (Apr 29, 2019)

Ralph Sir Edward said:


> To me, mud week in the mountains is still mud week in the mountains, no matter how upscale the resort. No interest, even for free.
> 
> In every system, there are overvalues and undervalues. I find it easier to find an undervalued resort in the Hilton system than the Marriott system. YMMV
> 
> Example: I have penthouse weeks at the Bay Club in Waikoloa. $1608 a week MFs this year. Compared to $2500+ for MOC, 2300+ for Ko Olina, and 2100+ for Waiohai. Or for that matter Sabal/Royal Palms in Orlando which run $1300+. (All winter high season). So I can get Hawaii at nearly Marriott Orlando prices - a little over $200 a week more. (I used to own at Royal Palms; Bay Club and the Palms are pretty much the same quality and amenity wise.) To go Marriott in Hawaii, you are talking $500 to nearly $1000 a week more, and that is if you buy weeks resale. If you go high season with points, you are talking an additional $500 a week more. Say $1000 to $1500 a week more. Do that for a 4 week stay and there is premium economy airfare for 2 and a rental car, paid for by the difference. Great value for money, as the British would say. . .



Just out of curiosity, what is the MF for an equivalent unit to the Bay Club at the Marriott on the Big Island? I wonder if there is such a huge price difference? Big Island is the least expensive island for real estate so wondering if that may be why Hilton can charge less in MFs.


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## 4Sunsets (Apr 29, 2019)

thanks everyone


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## 4Sunsets (Apr 29, 2019)

> I have penthouse weeks at the Bay Club in Waikoloa. $1608 a week MFs this year. Compared to $2500+ for MOC, 2300+ for Ko Olina, and 2100+ for Waiohai. Or for that matter Sabal/Royal Palms in Orlando which run $1300+. (All winter high season). So I can get Hawaii at nearly Marriott Orlando prices - a little over $200 a week more. (I used to own at Royal Palms; Bay Club and the Palms are pretty much the same quality and amenity wise.) To go Marriott in Hawaii, you are talking $500 to nearly $1000 a week more, and that is if you buy weeks resale. If you go high season with points, you are talking an additional $500 a week more. Say $1000 to $1500 a week more. Do that for a 4 week stay and there is premium economy airfare for 2 and a rental car, paid for by the difference. Great value for money, as the British would say. . .



I like what Hilton is doing and so a new owner. However, when comparing apples to apples one must compare all costs. Marriott doesn't charge booking or cancellation fees, or parking fees for owners, guest certificate fees, etc. Marriott also includes taxes in the MF. Marriot daily facility fee structure is also different than Hilton (and a bit less I believe: it was $7.97 a day Maui Towers vs $28 or so with Hilton).

Parking in Hawaii is expensive so if you compare resort to resort/island to island, you should look at all of this when considering. For example @ Ko Olina parking is $30 a day for non-owners, so a 7-day stay saves you $210, add in other Hilton fees, and the difference between the two quickly shrinks.


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## dayooper (Apr 29, 2019)

4Sunsets said:


> I like what Hilton is doing and so a new owner. However, when comparing apples to apples one must compare all costs. Marriott doesn't charge booking or cancellation fees, or parking fees for owners, guest certificate fees, etc. Marriott also includes taxes in the MF. Marriot daily facility fee structure is also different than Hilton (and a bit less I believe: it was $7.97 a day Maui Towers vs $28 or so with Hilton).
> 
> Parking in Hawaii is expensive so if you compare resort to resort/island to island, you should look at all of this when considering. For example @ Ko Olina parking is $30 a day for non-owners, so a 7-day stay saves you $210, add in other Hilton fees, and the difference between the two quickly shrinks.



Most HGVC resorts don’t charge for parking and daily fees unless you are trading in. Yes, many of the Hawaii resorts do charge parking, but the majority of resorts have free parking for members using their club points. I have not heard of an HGVC resort charging s daily fee to a member using club points either.


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## frank808 (Apr 29, 2019)

4Sunsets said:


> I like what Hilton is doing and so a new owner. However, when comparing apples to apples one must compare all costs. Marriott doesn't charge booking or cancellation fees, or parking fees for owners, guest certificate fees, etc. Marriott also includes taxes in the MF. Marriot daily facility fee structure is also different than Hilton (and a bit less I believe: it was $7.97 a day Maui Towers vs $28 or so with Hilton).
> 
> Parking in Hawaii is expensive so if you compare resort to resort/island to island, you should look at all of this when considering. For example @ Ko Olina parking is $30 a day for non-owners, so a 7-day stay saves you $210, add in other Hilton fees, and the difference between the two quickly shrinks.


Koolina doesn't charge parking to exchangers also.  MVC does not have an internal exhange system for owners(like HGVC does) that are in the legacy program.  So to use anywhere but our home resort we have to pay a $154 exchange fee to II.  So there are charges to go somewhere else than you owned week with Marriott.  

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## Seagila (Apr 29, 2019)

TravelTime said:


> Just out of curiosity, what is the MF for an equivalent unit to the Bay Club at the Marriott on the Big Island? I wonder if there is such a huge price difference? Big Island is the least expensive island for real estate so wondering if that may be why Hilton can charge less in MFs.



The 2019 MF of a two-bedroom in Bay Club ranges _$1,516.57 - $1,782.12_ depending on the unit layout and whether it's the penthouse or not.  Meanwhile, the number of Marriott DC Points required for a week in an Island View (lowest point requirement) two-bedroom at Marriott's Waikoloa Ocean Club ranges _4,175 - 5,825 or $2,421.50 - $3,378.50_ based on 2019 MF for DC Trust Points (_$0.58/point_).  If you're using the MF of Asia Pacific Points or an enrolled Marriott week electing points, the range could be lower or higher.

Taking the difference in cost between the high end of Bay Club's MF and the low end of DC Trust Points MF, you have _*$2,421.5 - $1,782.12 = $639.38*_.  Add to this the DC Club Dues one pays depending on their tier, _$205 - $270_, and the difference is even higher.  Also worth noting that Bay Club owners pay the same MF even when booking peak season.  Marriott DC Trust Points costs quite a bit more during peak season.

I've stayed at neither one, so cannot comment on quality.  I suspect that Waikoloa Ocean Club has an edge with amenities, so the guest will have to decide whether it's worth the difference in price.


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## alwysonvac (Apr 29, 2019)

HatTrick said:


> *Lagoon Tower...*
> Cons: Washer & dryer centrally located on each floor
> 
> I wouldn't say they're _centrally_ located.



Lol, true since it’s not near the center of the hallway .


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## csodjd (Apr 29, 2019)

HatTrick said:


> *Lagoon Tower...*
> Cons: Washer & dryer centrally located on each floor
> 
> I wouldn't say they're _centrally_ located.


And the dryer's, at least on the 23rd floor, suck. Unless by "dry" one means less wet. We went several cycles and finally gave up and just laid clothes out in the room to dry. But, we had a gorgeous view while they were drying.


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## csodjd (Apr 29, 2019)

ljmiii said:


> HGVC's Lagoon Tower and MVCI's Waiohai are our two favorite Hawaii resorts. The Lagoon tower because it is on the ocean in Waikiki. Close to all of Honolulu's Hawaiiana destinations (Bishop, Chinatown, Iolani, Punchbowl, Pali, Queen Emma, etc.) and with some of the world's best eats in walking distance or a short drive away. Waiohai because Kauai is a lush garden paradise and Waiohai sits on one of the world's great beaches - Poipu - with snorkeling, swimming, and wildlife literally steps from your villa. We also really like the towns of Kauai's South Shore - Koloa, Hanapepe, Waimei, etc.
> 
> We've also stayed at MOC, Ko Olina, and the Bay Club...all of which have their pluses and minuses.


For the record, I wouldn't necessarily put Oahu's "Chinatown" on the must do list. Went over there a few weeks ago to check it out. Not pretty. Not a warm fuzzy feeling. Was glad to leave. Quickly.


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## csodjd (Apr 29, 2019)

taffy19 said:


> I believe that you are right because the condos at the Grand Islander are really nice if the luxury of a condo is #1 on someone’s list and even for the 1 BR too.
> 
> However, the OP’s username is 4Sunsets so the Lagoon Tower may have a greater chance to score a beautiful sunset view and would require less points too, I assume.


My wife was able to sweet-talk her way to a great room in Lagoon a few weeks ago, 2363. Nice view of Diamond Head, great view of the fireworks, etc. But, not a sunset view. The sun sets on the other side of the building. So, for sunset, I think you'd want a harbor view/harbor side of the building in Lagoon Tower, at least in April. I find the sunsets in Maui hard to match.


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## TravelTime (Apr 29, 2019)

Seagila said:


> The 2019 MF of a two-bedroom in Bay Club ranges _$1,516.57 - $1,782.12_ depending on the unit layout and whether it's the penthouse or not.  Meanwhile, the number of Marriott DC Points required for a week in an Island View (lowest point requirement) two-bedroom at Marriott's Waikoloa Ocean Club ranges _4,175 - 5,825 or $2,421.50 - $3,378.50_ based on 2019 MF for DC Trust Points (_$0.58/point_).  If you're using the MF of Asia Pacific Points or an enrolled Marriott week electing points, the range could be lower or higher.
> 
> Taking the difference in cost between the high end of Bay Club's MF and the low end of DC Trust Points MF, you have _*$2,421.5 - $1,782.12 = $639.38*_.  Add to this the DC Club Dues one pays depending on their tier, _$205 - $270_, and the difference is even higher.  Also worth noting that Bay Club owners pay the same MF even when booking peak season.  Marriott DC Trust Points costs quite a bit more during peak season.
> 
> I've stayed at neither one, so cannot comment on quality.  I suspect that Waikoloa Ocean Club has an edge with amenities, so the guest will have to decide whether it's worth the difference in price.



After I asked the question, I realized that Marriott does not sell weeks at Waikoloa so it is not apples to apples to compare the cost using points to the cost of a week. The points cost is usually higher even when comparing a Marriott week to the same week with DC points. I think they may have overpriced Waikoloa though. Hope to see it one day using my 30% discount.


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## TravelTime (Apr 29, 2019)

csodjd said:


> For the record, I wouldn't necessarily put Oahu's "Chinatown" on the must do list. Went over there a few weeks ago to check it out. Not pretty. Not a warm fuzzy feeling. Was glad to leave. Quickly.



I would not put any Chinatown on a must do list.


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## csodjd (Apr 30, 2019)

TravelTime said:


> I would not put any Chinatown on a must do list.


Fair enough. But San Francisco's is an interesting walk, and places you would be comfortable eating at. Can't say the same for Honolulu.


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## Ralph Sir Edward (Apr 30, 2019)

TravelTime said:


> Just out of curiosity, what is the MF for an equivalent unit to the Bay Club at the Marriott on the Big Island? I wonder if there is such a huge price difference? Big Island is the least expensive island for real estate so wondering if that may be why Hilton can charge less in MFs.



Island View in the same time period - 4175 points (there are no weeks, totally a points resort) x .58 = $2421 vs $1608 for Bay Club, or $813 a week more. . .


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## ljmiii (Apr 30, 2019)

csodjd said:


> For the record, I wouldn't necessarily put Oahu's "Chinatown" on the must do list. Went over there a few weeks ago to check it out. Not pretty. Not a warm fuzzy feeling. Was glad to leave. Quickly.





csodjd said:


> Fair enough. But San Francisco's is an interesting walk, and places you would be comfortable eating at. Can't say the same for Honolulu.


I would agree that Honolulu's Chinatown isn't a 'must do' - we just like it for its food, shopping, and place in the history of Hawaii. For whatever reason Honolulu's Chinatown doesn't actually have any good Chinese restaurants as mainlanders think of them. But there are good Hong Kong style noodle houses and dim sum restaurants as well as great Vietnamese (mainly Pho and Bahn Mi)...I heartily recommend Cuu Long ll or To-Chau. Also the Sing Cheong Yuan Bakery for 'traditional' Chinese baked goods as well as uniquely Hawaiian treats - the Char Siu Manapua and crackseed are particularly tasty.

But as you said, it certainly isn't in the same league as San Francisco's.


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## Ralph Sir Edward (Apr 30, 2019)

I will also note the the Marriott is a hotel conversion. According to their website, only kitchenettes. . .


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## Ralph Sir Edward (Apr 30, 2019)

And this is not going the "cheapskate" MF route. The cheapskate route would be to buy HGVC in Vegas and point into Hawaii. That would lower the MF to around $1200-$1300, but no guarantee of getting a room in Hawaii.

Bay Club is usually an easy swap early on, but no guarantees. I pay more for guarantees and for getting exactly what I want.

(You could argue the Vegas route costs more, because Bay Club has no ROFR, and many of the HGVCs in Vegas do, so you pay more for a week.)

Now Bay Club is not a mega-resort. It was originally built as a condo complex. That is why a mentioned the Palms in Orlando. They both have about the same level of amenities, to give Marriott owners a yardstick for comparison. It boils down to what does one want, and how much is one willing to pay for it. I go for the climate in winter, (and to see the Southern Cross at 4:30 AM occasionally. . .  )


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## dayooper (Apr 30, 2019)

Ralph Sir Edward said:


> And this is not going the "cheapskate" MF route. The cheapskate route would be to buy HGVC in Vegas and point into Hawaii. That would lower the MF to around $1200-$1300, but no guarantee of getting a room in Hawaii.
> 
> Bay Club is usually an easy swap early on, but no guarantees. I pay more for guarantees and for getting exactly what I want.
> 
> (You could argue the Vegas route costs more, because Bay Club has no ROFR, and many of the HGVCs in Vegas do, so you pay more for a week.)



Actually, it would be even "cheaper." The Vegas MF's are very reasonable. The Boulevard in LV has MF's around $870. Throw on the club booking fee and its just over $900 for a week in Hawaii. That's the beauty of the system. I don't consider it as a cheapskate route, it's how the system works. Yes, you lose the guarantee, but most places you can get what you want if you book at 9 months. There are exceptions, of course, but most places are available. If a member is organized and smart, they can play the system to their advantage and get great deals on vacations. I have a 2 bedroom platinum at The Flamingo (which has no ROFR). I paid a great price and have MF's at $1050 so my vacations are not expensive at all. I trade the guarantee of the home booking season for price and flexibility. Getting what you want is important and paying more for that would be worth it.

That's what makes this system so flexible. It caters to the wants of both types of members; those that want the guarantee and those that want flexibility. The great resorts and awesome service makes it that much better for both types of members.


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## 1Kflyerguy (Apr 30, 2019)

Ralph Sir Edward said:


> I will also note the the Marriott is a hotel conversion. According to their website, only kitchenettes. . .



That is correct.  We did a tour at the Waikaloa MVC when they first opened.  The rooms were very nice with an upscale feel, but yes only kitchenettes.  The resort itself was still undergoing a renovation when we visited.  It was a nice resort, but for some reason i was not wowed by the resort.

We own both Marriott points and HGV.   For Big Island, we definitely prefer HGV.  My favorite is Kings Land, but each resort is great, and i can understand those that like the big villas or Penthouse units at Bay club.


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## 4Sunsets (Apr 30, 2019)

csodjd said:


> My wife was able to sweet-talk her way to a great room in Lagoon a few weeks ago, 2363. Nice view of Diamond Head, great view of the fireworks, etc. But, not a sunset view. The sun sets on the other side of the building. So, for sunset, I think you'd want a harbor view/harbor side of the building in Lagoon Tower, at least in April. I find the sunsets in Maui hard to match.



Maui has beautiful sunsets, but my favorite spot for sunsets is Ko Olina down to the end of the boardwalk in the little private bay. shhhhh....


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## 4Sunsets (Apr 30, 2019)

TravelTime said:


> After I asked the question, I realized that Marriott does not sell weeks at Waikoloa so it is not apples to apples to compare the cost using points to the cost of a week. The points cost is usually higher even when comparing a Marriott week to the same week with DC points. I think they may have overpriced Waikoloa though. Hope to see it one day using my 30% discount.



I think so too... but have you looked at the room rates they are trying to charge for the same? My jaw dropped. It's a nice location but oceanfront there not worth the room rate/points.


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## 4Sunsets (Apr 30, 2019)

dayooper said:


> Actually, it would be even "cheaper." The Vegas MF's are very reasonable. The Boulevard in LV has MF's around $870. Throw on the club booking fee and its just over $900 for a week in Hawaii. That's the beauty of the system. I don't consider it as a cheapskate route, it's how the system works. Yes, you lose the guarantee, but most places you can get what you want if you book at 9 months. There are exceptions, of course, but most places are available. If a member is organized and smart, they can play the system to their advantage and get great deals on vacations. I have a 2 bedroom platinum at The Flamingo (which has no ROFR). I paid a great price and have MF's at $1050 so my vacations are not expensive at all. I trade the guarantee of the home booking season for price and flexibility. Getting what you want is important and paying more for that would be worth it.
> 
> That's what makes this system so flexible. It caters to the wants of both types of members; those that want the guarantee and those that want flexibility. The great resorts and awesome service makes it that much better for both types of members.



Helpful, I like that about the hilton system too. We are new though so not experienced. Can you or someone explain to me what people refer to as "old point system" vs "new point system" for Hilton Hawaii? Does this specifically refer to like Grand Waikikian and such? 

Also what are your favorite Hilton stays on the big island? Kings Landing?


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## dayooper (Apr 30, 2019)

4Sunsets said:


> Helpful, I like that about the hilton system too. We are new though so not experienced. Can you or someone explain to me what people refer to as "old point system" vs "new point system" for Hilton Hawaii? Does this specifically refer to like Grand Waikikian and such?
> 
> Also what are your favorite Hilton stays on the big island? Kings Landing?



The original point system (still in use for most resorts) is the basic Platinum, Gold and Silver system. It breaks down like this:

Room Size   Platinum      Gold           Silver
3br              8400 pts     5800 pts     4100 pts
2 br            7000 pts     5000 pts      3500 pts
1 br            4800 pts     3400 pts      2400 pts

There are differences in points when you get to the grand, plus and premiere rooms (many times these are ocean front at beach resorts or very high floor rooms in Vegas. Those are usually more points.

Some of the newer high end resorts in Hawaii (not all) and Barbados have much higher point structures. When you purchase deeds there, you get those points. 2 bedroom platinum units can range from 8400 to 14,000 for a basic 2 bedroom booking. Use this link to explore the different resorts HGVC has. Click on a resort and go to the points tab to explore how many points are needed at each resort.

I have never stayed in Hawaii, so I really don't know.


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## 1Kflyerguy (Apr 30, 2019)

4Sunsets said:


> Helpful, I like that about the hilton system too. We are new though so not experienced. Can you or someone explain to me what people refer to as "old point system" vs "new point system" for Hilton Hawaii? Does this specifically refer to like Grand Waikikian and such?
> 
> Also what are your favorite Hilton stays on the big island? Kings Landing?



I would stay away from Kings Landing,  they have an evil Queen and may soon be involved in a war...

As for the Big Island,  we really like Kings Land.  The pools are amazing and it has most "resort" feel of any of the dedicated timeshare locations..   In particular we like phase 1, with the larger higher point units.  I know others really like Bay Club for its large units and lanai's, but my wife does not care much for the ambiance at Bay Club. In the end the "best location" is dependent on how you spend your vacation, and whats important.  We do enjoys lots of activities and beaches, but also like to hang out at the pool and pool bar.  So for us Kings Land checks all the boxes.


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## Ralph Sir Edward (Apr 30, 2019)

4Sunsets said:


> Helpful, I like that about the hilton system too. We are new though so not experienced. Can you or someone explain to me what people refer to as "old point system" vs "new point system" for Hilton Hawaii? Does this specifically refer to like Grand Waikikian and such?
> 
> Also what are your favorite Hilton stays on the big island? Kings Landing?



I think it's called inflation - sort of. . . 

As resort areas get more and more built up, the cost of building new timeshares goes up. Hilton reflects this in the point cost of their new, more expensive properties. When the first part of Kingsland was built, it was much fancier than Kohala Suites or Bay Club. To keep it from being pointed into existing owners, it was given a point value slightly higher than double the "standard point value". That did not sell so well, so the next phase of Kingsland had smaller rooms, but were back to the standard point values. The most recent phase, phase 3 is a mix of both sizes and point values.

The new system "top" resorts are now being built, and being pointed at double the phase 1 Kingsland values. 28,800 for top 2 BDR weeks. (They also cost two arms, a leg, and a gonad - one of those 28,800 weeks cost around $130,000!  Gulp!!!) These are Hilton Waikoloa hotel conversions and the new Crane's in Barbados. Nobody knows what the long term MFs will be, the current MFs (as usual) are subsidised. . .

Hope this helps.


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## 4Sunsets (May 1, 2019)

28000 points? WOW!! Is it even worth it to get 7200 points in Hilton? We thought that would be a week in most HGVC for 2 bedrooms, including Hawaii. Really we were wanting to get a few more options than our Marriott.


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## Pathways (May 1, 2019)

4Sunsets said:


> Is it even worth it to get 7200 points in Hilton?



Absolutely!  7200 is a starting point.  While there is no '60 day discount' like with Marriott, some locations with HGVC are so much cheaper.  Example: we love to stay at South Beach.  The MVC and HGVC are about 3 buildings apart - same quality.  About $3500 for a 2 br from MVC, about $900 for a 2 br with HGVC. 

With HGVC it's all about getting a low MF ownership!


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## Ralph Sir Edward (May 1, 2019)

4Sunsets said:


> 28000 points? WOW!! Is it even worth it to get 7200 points in Hilton? We thought that would be a week in most HGVC for 2 bedrooms, including Hawaii. Really we were wanting to get a few more options than our Marriott.



There are only 3 28.8K resort in the HGVC right now. All under construction, or just completed. (Maui, Barbados, and the Hilton hotel conversion in Waikoloa.) I don't track bHC costs. . . 

It takes 7450 points for top high season at MOC on Maui. At a rack rate of $14 a point, that would be $104,000 buy-in and at .58 cents a point a MF of $4321 a year ($617 a night). (I use points because Marriott only sells point now, and these are NEW timeshares for HGVC (MOC is 20 years old, or so)).

That puts the new Hiltons not too far out of line with top end Marriotts. (Note: Ski seasons at the Ritz Calrtons will run you 10,000+ points.) Otoh, lots of places at 7,000 points. Just not the latest and greatest.

Whatever floats your boat. . .


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## taffy19 (May 1, 2019)

csodjd said:


> My wife was able to sweet-talk her way to a great room in Lagoon a few weeks ago, 2363. Nice view of Diamond Head, great view of the fireworks, etc. But, not a sunset view. The sun sets on the other side of the building. So, for sunset, I think you'd want a harbor view/harbor side of the building in Lagoon Tower, at least in April. I find the sunsets in Maui hard to match.


That may change during the year.  We own a fixed week/unit timeshare in Maui in Kihei that never sees the sunset when we are there in April.  We went twice during a different time of the year and we could see the sunset from the same condo unit and there was no shade on our Lanai either so we couldn't sit outside until the sun had moved around.  I have learned to call the front desk now to find out if it is a shady unit or not if we change our week again.

I saw a post here on TUG where someone had lines on a Google map and could figure it out.  I tried to find it and here it is. 

https://tugbbs.com/forums/index.php?threads/which-hgvc-waikoloa-1br.287715/#post-2262755


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## SmithOp (May 1, 2019)

4Sunsets said:


> 28000 points? WOW!! Is it even worth it to get 7200 points in Hilton? We thought that would be a week in most HGVC for 2 bedrooms, including Hawaii. Really we were wanting to get a few more options than our Marriott.



Hawaii has the longest high demand platinum season, so it helps to have more points or you might have to stay less than 7 days.  Sun-Thursday stays are half the point costs at all HGVC locations.  Hawaii gold season is less points in April-May or Sept-Oct but that may not be practical with kids and school holidays.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro


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## 4Sunsets (May 2, 2019)

Thank you!


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## brp (May 2, 2019)

Ralph Sir Edward said:


> And this is not going the "cheapskate" MF route. The cheapskate route would be to buy HGVC in Vegas and point into Hawaii. That would lower the MF to around $1200-$1300, but no guarantee of getting a room in Hawaii.
> 
> Bay Club is usually an easy swap early on, but no guarantees. I pay more for guarantees and for getting exactly what I want.



We took this cheapskate route and have gotten our Hawai'i Island trips at any time we've wanted. I do get the idea of paying for the guarantee, but I find that Hawai'i is about as guaranteed as it gets at 9 months. And this includes a prior Thanksgiving and upcoming (in a few weeks) Memorial day trip.

Oahu may be a different story, but we're not interested in going there.

Cheers.


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## tahoeJoe (May 5, 2019)

Remy said:


> If you think Marriott’s are impeccably maintained, I invite you to visit their ski resorts next season. The ‘80’s called. They want their timeshares back.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro



Speaking of out dated, I think the Marriott Streamside in Val was used as the set for the film "Hot Tub Time Machine".


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## tahoeJoe (May 5, 2019)

Remy said:


> If you think Marriott’s are impeccably maintained, I invite you to visit their ski resorts next season. The ‘80’s called. They want their timeshares back.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro



Speaking of out dated, I think the Marriott Streamside in Vail was used as the set for the film "Hot Tub Time Machine".


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## Sandy VDH (May 5, 2019)

With HGVC you can save one year to the next and borrow from the next year.  That gives you an option to be flexible and splurge every few years. Save and Borrow is an option.  

Since Midweek stays (M to Thurs) are half the points of Week end stays, try to eliminate 1 weekend day from your stay and that will save you 20% of a weekly rate.  It is like of loaded to weekends.  Staying 3 nights (Fri, Sat and Sun) will cost you 60% of a FULL week point requirement.  

In most locations there is a standard point offering.  At some new locations there is just higher point offerings, but if you want it, you can be creative.


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## GregT (May 6, 2019)

All,

Have we ever seen a point chart for Maui?  I may have missed it, and am curious (and am expecting the high points that Ocean Tower/Grand Islander/Barbados are commanding).   May even set new highs.... Thanks!

Best,

Greg


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## dayooper (May 6, 2019)

Ralph Sir Edward said:


> There are only 3 28.8K resort in the HGVC right now. All under construction, or just completed. (Maui, Barbados, and the Hilton hotel conversion in Waikoloa.) I don't track bHC costs. . .
> 
> It takes 7450 points for top high season at MOC on Maui. At a rack rate of $14 a point, that would be $104,000 buy-in and at .58 cents a point a MF of $4321 a year ($617 a night). (I use points because Marriott only sells point now, and these are NEW timeshares for HGVC (MOC is 20 years old, or so)).
> 
> ...



Where are the points for Maui listed? I haven't seen anything yet (not saying you are wrong, I just haven't seen them yet).


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## Ralph Sir Edward (May 6, 2019)

I thought I saw them listed on a thread here at TUG/


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## 1Kflyerguy (May 7, 2019)

GregT said:


> All,
> 
> Have we ever seen a point chart for Maui?  I may have missed it, and am curious (and am expecting the high points that Ocean Tower/Grand Islander/Barbados are commanding).   May even set new highs.... Thanks!
> 
> ...



Do they publish the point charts before they begin sales?  I have not really tracked how early they release these in the past.

HGV management just reconfirmed they plan to start sales for Maui and the new Waikiki locations in 2020.  I would expect they would wait until closer to the sales release in case they need to adjust for some reason..


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## terces (May 7, 2019)

dayooper said:


> Where are the points for Maui listed? I haven't seen anything yet (not saying you are wrong, I just haven't seen them yet).


I just checked through the HGVC website for Maui and there is not a points chart that I could see.


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