# Ocean Front? WKORV should I rescind?



## mikeha (Jun 11, 2012)

We have made an offer on an OF resale unit at WKORV. We are within our 7 day right to rescind and I have seen something that troubles me. The ad says the unit is in the desireable building 4. In reviewing TUG I have found that it appears the only corner unit OF would look across a parking lot and be a great distance from the ocean. Is this correct? When we would book our OF week are we actually going to be in building 4?
I am new to this and have already dodged some bullets via help from TUGGERS. Any feedback will be appreciated.


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## DeniseM (Jun 11, 2012)

You have been *mislead* - there are NO ocean front units in building 4 - and building 4 is considered to be the least desirable building at the whole resort.  The only ocean front units in the south phase are buildings 2 and 3.  

You will NOT get an ocean front unit when you make your reservation - because you will NOT own an ocean front unit.

You will pay the highest maintenance fee at the resort for a corner unit.

If this was an ebay auction, you can simply walk away, because ebay auctions are not binding.  Hopefully, you haven't sent them any money, yet!

YOU SHOULD ABSOLUTELY WITHDRAW YOUR OFFER!


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## mikeha (Jun 11, 2012)

Denise,
Thank you for your quick response I am going to rescind immediately!
TUG has been a life saver in helping me to purchase the TS we want.


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## DeniseM (Jun 11, 2012)

I highly recommend that when you find another unit to buy, that you discuss it here before you commit.  We can save you a lot of grief! 

More info. about rescinding - http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=74493

Good luck!


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## mikeha (Jun 11, 2012)

Offer has been withdrawn in writing and by phone. Will begin new search with greater caution and more input.
Thank you.


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## DeniseM (Jun 11, 2012)

Here is a WKORV resort map with a link to the view designation by unit number.  ONLY the units that are directly facing the ocean are ocean front:  http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=77371 - On this map - the ocean front units are the units at the very top of the graphic.

Building 2, all floors, *units 30/31 are Ocean Front*
Building 2, all floors, *units 26/28 and 27/29 are Deluxe Ocean Front*
Building 2, everything else is Ocean View

Building 3, all floors, *units 30/31 are Ocean Front*
Building 3, all floors, *units 26/28 and 27/29 are Deluxe Ocean Front*
Building 3, everything else is Ocean View

The Deluxe Ocean Front units are the corner units, and they have a significantly higher maintenance fees.  If it were me, I'd go for a center ocean front units (#30/31) instead.

Here is an aerial view of the ocean front units - note the location of Bldg. 4 - in the back right corner - to see just how badly you were fibbed to!

The bldg. on the left is bldg. 2 and the bldg. on the right is bldg. 3.  If you buy an ocean front unit, you may be placed in either bldg.


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## DavidnRobin (Jun 11, 2012)

mikeha said:


> Offer has been withdrawn in writing and by phone. Will begin new search with greater caution and more input.
> Thank you.



I am curious to who misled you - also, who gives a 7-day rescind period for a resale SVO week? (the rescind period is usually a Developer thing).
I hope you did not give them money upfront prior to verifying the villa type.

We own resale OF Dlx WKORV (corner) - and love it - as well as others here on TUG.  The MFs are higher (even per sqft) - but that comes with more sqft, double the amount of available villas, a better layout, better light, and panoramic views from the LR.


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## DeniseM (Jun 11, 2012)

*+1* - Please tell us who you bought from?


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## maph (Jun 11, 2012)

I think this is an ad on MyResortNetwork, All Hawaiian Time Realty.  They describe the unit as 'ocean front deluxe corner unit, 1750 sq ft in the preferred building #4" for $25k.


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## mikeha (Jun 11, 2012)

Yes that was the ad. Contract had a 7 day period to cancel. Gave no money upfront. Glad that I continued to look at TUG and ask questions.  Being a member here has been a godsend.
Thank you all.
Now begins my new search to find my best value to get a unit at WKORV .


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## DeniseM (Jun 11, 2012)

When you told them this is NOT an ocean front unit, what did they say?



> They describe the unit as 'ocean front deluxe corner unit, 1750 sq ft in the *preferred* building #4" for $25k.



This is either gross incompetence or intentional!


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## Westin5Star (Jun 11, 2012)

Some people may prefer building 4  

It is so great that TUG exists to expose many of the scams in the TS industry.


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## mikeha (Jun 11, 2012)

Gordon Wyant the owner of All Hawaiian RE said that he was sorry but "he thought that I knew what type of unit it was". Given the  description of the unit this seems odd.
Well lesson learned now I will proceed with caution.


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## Ken555 (Jun 11, 2012)

mikeha said:


> Gordon Wyant the owner of All Hawaiian RE said that he was sorry but "he thought that I knew what type of unit it was". Given the  description of the unit this seems odd.
> Well lesson learned now I will proceed with caution.



That's just absurd. If the unit they're selling is really in building 4 then they have the responsibility of stating it is island view, not ocean front. This appears to be a misleading at best, and his response implies lack of responsibility on his part. 

I suggest you do business elsewhere.


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## DeniseM (Jun 11, 2012)

mikeha said:


> Gordon Wyant the owner of All Hawaiian RE said that he was sorry but "he thought that I knew what type of unit it was". Given the  description of the unit this seems odd.
> Well lesson learned now I will proceed with caution.



So he assumed that you knew that his description was COMPLETELY WRONG?  

Another good practice - always request a resale fact sheet before closing - http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=792&d=1270537155


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## mikeha (Jun 11, 2012)

Have begun looking at listings for other units. Any feedback RE: Syed Sarmad @ Advantage Vacation LLC or Fred Messreni @ TS Resale Gallery?
Any experiences positive or negative?
Would it be likely a 2/2 LO EOY OV.  @7000. Would pass ROFR ?
Is 25k good on an OF annual @WKORVN?


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## DeniseM (Jun 11, 2012)

mikeha said:


> Have begun looking at listings for other units. Any feedback RE: Syed Sarmad @ Advantage Vacation LLC or Fred Messreni @ TS Resale Gallery?
> Any experiences positive or negative?
> Would it be likely a 2/2 LO EOY OV.  @7000. Would pass ROFR ?
> Is 25k good on an OF annual @WKORVN?



Fred and Syed are both TUG members who are well-respected around here.  See the TUG TS Business ratings (sub-forum of Buying, Selling, Renting) for their TUG rating.

The ocean "front" designation at the north property includes unit that actually only have a partial ocean view.  I wouldn't even consider buying OF there - the OF views at the south property are far superior. 

Here is a link to the map & designations for the north phase - http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=77373

Here is an example - Bldg. 5, units 15 & 16 are "ocean front" according to Starwood.... (the ocean is at the top of the map.)


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## vacationtime1 (Jun 11, 2012)

mikeha said:


> Have begun looking at listings for other units. Any feedback RE: Syed Sarmad @ Advantage Vacation LLC or Fred Messreni @ TS Resale Gallery?
> Any experiences positive or negative?
> Would it be likely a 2/2 LO EOY OV.  @7000. Would pass ROFR ?
> Is 25k good on an OF annual @WKORVN?



Syed and FredM are both knowledgeable -- the two best two I know for WKORV (we bought our WKORV OF unit through Syed).

Don't worry about ROFR; pay what you want to pay.  If Starwood exercises ROFR, try again.  

$23,000 - $25,000 is about right for WKORVN OF (which is not nearly as good as WKORV OF).  FredM has posted on recent experiences selling at this price point.

But if you are still looking at both OV and OF at both WKORV and WKORVN, you should do more research.  We walked around the property multiple times, day and night, before deciding.  The process was not unpleasant.


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## mikeha (Jun 12, 2012)

We have vacationed at WKORV 2 times now and have loved the property. We are now considering what will be the best value for us at WKORV. Leaning toward an EOY OV unit as our first. After my previous experience I am feeling cautious. Was glad to see positive feedback RE: Syad and Fred. I am looking at listing from their companies.


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## DavidnRobin (Jun 12, 2012)

My Opinion - if you buy OF, then buy south resort.

+1 for Syed and FredM


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## mikeha (Jun 12, 2012)

After talking it over my wife and I think we will look at an EOY OV at WKORV for our first puchase. We know we like these units as we have stayed in them before. We want WKORV as our home resort as we enjoy it and will stay there often. I believe that we should have no problems exchanging or renting it in years we choose to go elsewhere.
One question is when purchasing this type of unit is there a specific location as with OF or other deluxe or premium units? I thought when reserving OV we would be placed by unit that is available when reserved.
I know before making offer I need to ask about current status of MF, clear ownership, deed, year of first use, estimate of agent fees, title insurance, escrow co. and how long to close.
Anything else I should beware of?


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## DeniseM (Jun 12, 2012)

mikeha said:


> After talking it over my wife and I think we will look at an EOY OV at WKORV for our first puchase. We know we like these units as we have stayed in them before. We want WKORV as our home resort as we enjoy it and will stay there often. I believe that we should have no problems exchanging or renting it in years we choose to go elsewhere.
> One question is when purchasing this type of unit is there a specific location as with OF or other deluxe or premium units? I thought when reserving OV we would be placed by unit that is available when reserved.



At WKORV North and South ALL units have a deeded view:  Island View, Ocean View, or Ocean Front.  When you make your reservation during the owner's priority period (12 - 8 mos. out from check-in) you will be assigned to a unit in your deeded view IF AVAILABLE.  

At 12 mos. out - you can almost always get your deeded view, although ocean front sometimes completely fills up the first day it is available for a holiday week.  This year, WKORV-South, OF, completely filled up early in the day for President's week at 12 mos. out - but that would not happen with Ocean View, since there are far more OV units available to reserve.

Savvy owners make their reservation at 8:59 a.m. ET, exactly 12 mos. out from check-in, for the best view, because your priority is based on how early you reserve.  At that time, you can and should request a building and a high or low floor - you cannot make a more specific request than that.

In Starwood Owner Resources at the top of the forum, there are links to maps and the designated view for every unit at the resort.  When you buy a timeshare, you should compare the unit number on the deed, to the list, to verify the deeded view.  That doesn't mean however, that you will get that specific unit when you make your Resv.



> I know before making offer I need to ask about current status of MF, clear ownership, deed, year of first use, estimate of agent fees, title insurance, escrow co. and how long to close.
> Anything else I should beware of?



Also - you need a Resale Fact Sheet that the closing company can request from Starwood - see above.

On the TUG Advice page, there are several articles and a check-list for buying resale - I'd look those over as well.


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## mikeha (Jun 12, 2012)

Thank you again Denise and all of the other members who have responded.
I think we will now inquire RE: a couple of EOY units being offered by Syed and Fred since they received positive remarks from members. After being thrown off the horse it's time climb back on a little wiser and a little more cautious.


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## DeniseM (Jun 12, 2012)

mikeha said:


> Thank you again Denise and all of the other members who have responded.
> I think we will now inquire RE: a couple of EOY units being offered by Syed and Fred since they received positive remarks from members. After being thrown off the horse it's time climb back on a little wiser and a little more cautious.



You can't go wrong with either one of them, and they will provide expert guidance through the process.

If I was going to do it over, I'd buy a center, ocean front unit at WKORV-South - ONLY.

It will retain it's resale value and will be a profitable rental - not to mention a FABULOUS view.


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## mikeha (Jun 12, 2012)

I agree RE; view, future value and rent, hopefully this will be a future reality.
For us the 35K plus price tag of a REAL OV unit is more than we are willing to spend for our first TS even the 25K price of the BOGUS offer was a stretch to our comfort level. Time and experience may make us more comfortable with that investment.


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## DeniseM (Jun 12, 2012)

It is too rich for our blood too - that's one of the reason we bought ocean front on Kauai instead for a fraction of the cost.

Kauai Beach Villas - 

View from our lanai.






Swimmable beach just a few steps down the beach.


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## DavidnRobin (Jun 12, 2012)

as a counterpoint to DM's connection to KBV - if we had the choice to do it over again - we would still own WKORV OF (south)... even with the added purchase cost and MFs.


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## DeniseM (Jun 12, 2012)

DavidnRobin said:


> as a counterpoint to DM's connection to KBV - if we had the choice to do it over again - we would still own WKORV OF (south)... even with the added purchase cost and MFs.



Full disclosure - we vastly prefer Kauai as well.


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## DavidnRobin (Jun 17, 2012)

DeniseM said:


> Full disclosure - we vastly prefer Kauai as well.



KBV in bargain basement -
http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=172790


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## SDKath (Jun 17, 2012)

Although the beach/swimming at Kaanapali is far better than most of the Kauai beaches (where the resorts are), except perhaps Poipu...  JMHO of course.


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## spencersmama (Jun 18, 2012)

SDKath said:


> Although the beach/swimming at Kaanapali is far better than most of the Kauai beaches (where the resorts are), except perhaps Poipu...  JMHO of course.



Really?  I stayed at a condo we rented on Poipu, right next to the Sheraton. (Poipu Kapili, maybe?  I should try to look it up.)  I remember the surf seemed rough and the beach was narrow and crowded.  I do remember loving Poipu Burger, which was right across the street.  I think we went there three times for lunch that week because we loved it so much!


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## DavidnRobin (Jun 18, 2012)

spencersmama said:


> Really?  I stayed at a condo we rented on Poipu, right next to the Sheraton. (Poipu Kapili, maybe?  I should try to look it up.)  I remember the surf seemed rough and the beach was narrow and crowded.  I do remember loving Poipu Burger, which was right across the street.  I think we went there three times for lunch that week because we loved it so much!



Maui has many more beaches that are 'swimmable' than Kauai - plus Kauai conditions are much more erractic and depend on time of year.  I now wear a snorkel vest (...sissy...) after being caught in a strong current and lost a flipper while snorkeling off of Poipu.  Tunnels and Ke'e can also have their challenges.

I was pointing out the KBV in the freebie-section in part as a counter that one would likely never see a freebie WKORV/N (unless things go completely to hell - e.g. lose Westin affliation - sorry W5* - I know you disagree...).  Also, in all the photos I have seen for KBV - I have never seen anyone in the water - where people are constantly in the water off of WKORV/N.  They are vastly different resorts on two different islands - and do not compare well (WKORV/N is far more popular...). Now if someone wants to make an argument between KBV and WPORV - let the discussion begin... 
I would still choose WPORV - even with no easy beach access.


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## DeniseM (Jun 18, 2012)

Dave - you make some good points, but let me clarify one thing.  KBV is not on a busy beach, so it's empty most of the time.  It is between the golf course and the Aqua hotel and there is nothing else within walking distance.  I know that isn't everyone's cup of tea, but we by far prefer being away from the hussle and bustle.  Looking out onto an empty beach and 180 degree ocean views is my idea of heaven.  Maui has just gotten too busy for us.

Of course Hawaii is like ice cream - everyone has a favorite flavor, but they are all good!

BTW - that KBV unit has been spoken for.


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## spencersmama (Jun 18, 2012)

DavidnRobin said:


> Maui has many more beaches that are 'swimmable' than Kauai - plus Kauai conditions are much more erractic and depend on time of year.  I now wear a snorkel vest (...sissy...) after being caught in a strong current and lost a flipper while snorkeling off of Poipu.  Tunnels and Ke'e can also have their challenges.
> 
> I was pointing out the KBV in the freebie-section in part as a counter that one would likely never see a freebie WKORV/N (unless things go completely to hell - e.g. lose Westin affliation - sorry W5* - I know you disagree...).  Also, in all the photos I have seen for KBV - I have never seen anyone in the water - where people are constantly in the water off of WKORV/N.  They are vastly different resorts on two different islands - and do not compare well (WKORV/N is far more popular...). Now if someone wants to make an argument between KBV and WPORV - let the discussion begin...
> I would still choose WPORV - even with no easy beach access.



I agree with you.  I was surprised Poipu was the "calm" beach on Kauai.  I much preferred Kaanapali.  Actually, I prefer any beach next to a swimming pool.  I would rather wash off the sand and get in a pool before heading back to the shower.  Sand has a way of getting everywhere!



DeniseM said:


> Of course Hawaii is like ice cream - everyone has a favorite flavor, but they are all good!



So true!


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## DavidnRobin (Jun 18, 2012)

DM - true - however, I was not the one who brought KBV into the discussion about OF WKORV.  The water shots from KBV do not look inviting from a swimming/snorkeling perspective - however, the beach always looks very quiet.

whale waving aloha from OF WKORV...


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## mitchandjeanette (Jun 18, 2012)

Am I correct???

WKORV = Mandatory

WKORVN =  Not Mandatory


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## grgs (Jun 18, 2012)

mitchandjeanette said:


> Am I correct???
> 
> WKORV = Mandatory
> 
> WKORVN =  Not Mandatory



No, they are both mandatory.  From the Starwood article under the Owner Resources section:
_
“Mandatory” Properties

    Harborside Resort at Atlantis
    Sheraton Vistana Villages, Bella and Key West phases only
    Westin St. John, Virgin Grand/Hillside phase only
    Westin Ka'anapali Ocean Resort Villas
    Westin Ka’anapali Ocean Resort Villas, North
    Westin Kierland Villas 

All other properties are “Voluntary.”_


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## Ken555 (Jun 18, 2012)

mitchandjeanette said:


> Am I correct???
> 
> WKORV = Mandatory
> 
> WKORVN =  Not Mandatory



Both mandatory. N is just the north property.


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## DavidnRobin (Jun 18, 2012)

mitchandjeanette said:


> Am I correct???
> 
> WKORV = Mandatory
> 
> WKORVN =  Not Mandatory



Both WKORV and WKORVN are Mandatory.
It is WPORV that is Voluntary (Non-Mandatory)

Essentially the terms mean whether you have to be in SVN (SVN Mandatory), or not (SVN Voluntary) - however, upon buying a resale V resort - one cannot get into SVN unless the V resort is requalified (retro'ed) - or - SVO allows for a large group resale buyers of a particular V resort access into SVN as a one-time offer (rare, but has happened, but with a reduction in SO value for SVN exchanges)

PS - I see many responded in kind.  As this thread discusses OF villas - my advice, if you are buying OF at WKORV/N - is to buy OF at WKORV (south) as they are true OF - and I am not saying this because this is what we own...  that is if View and OF is important to you

photo of lanai of WKORV OF (this lanai is about 25ftx8.5ft) - cute chick not included...


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## DavidnRobin (Jun 18, 2012)

Sunrise from WPORV - from B7 hammerhead lanai (using iPhone with photobucket app)

not true OF - but...


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## LisaRex (Jun 18, 2012)

DavidnRobin said:


> whale waving aloha from OF WKORV...



Are you sure that's a wave? 

:rofl:


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## DeniseM (Jun 19, 2012)

DavidnRobin said:


> DM - true - however, I was not the one who brought KBV into the discussion about OF WKORV.



Since the OP is looking, I just want to point out that there are very reasonable alternatives for ocean front units.  

You can't go wrong with an ocean front unit at WKORV, but not everyone wants to spend that kind of money.


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## mikeha (Jun 19, 2012)

We now have an OV WKORV in escrow waiting now for ROFR period to pass. Wish me luck. OF would be nice but the OF was just too many $ for now.


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