# Seapointer Redux



## guitarlars (Feb 7, 2007)

The last thread broke down, in my eyes, as people began discussing how they might be able to use DAE, that it was a good run, SA stinks, glad I sold mine, etc.

I would like to hear peoples ideas on how we preserve the asset in which we all invested our money. I can walk away from this, but I've owned for 5 years  and paid my levy's, so why should I be forced to abandon my investment?

My concern is this, we paid a levy for the purpose of properly operating and maintaining the property for our (the owners) benefit. The fact that RCI will not accept these units due to maintenance issues is evidence that the funds we paid were not used well.

The Board appears to be made up of questionable individuals who seem to have, at face value, been involved in a number of scams. Their history suggests that we are potentially the victims of a plan to, (depending on who you choose to believe): a) pocket the funds, b) run down the property so that the owners stop paying levys and they can take back the property, c) convert the property from a timeshare, d) get control of enough units to stack the deck in favor of these yahoos, or any number of other possibilities.

Even if you can exchange with DAE for now, it is just delaying the inevitable. At some point nobody is going to take your units for trade because they are in such poor condition. Further, you will have to rely on the Seapointer management (the same people degrading the value of the property) to confirm that you have a use right. What do you do when they stop cooperating and will no longer confirm your use right?

I would like to know EXACTLY what the maintenance issues are. If nothing nefarious (act of god, etc.) management should be happy to let us know what is needed.

Until we have better intelligence as to what is really happening at the Seapointer I remain irate. Why the heck can't we get some real answers from these buffoons?

Why don't we share any ideas as to what we might do. How many units (share blocks) do Tuggers control? It would be good to know how much leverage we might have. I have no clue as to what the bylaws of the Petit Chalet Shareblocks say, but I plan on reading up over the next few days.

Anyone have any thoughts (other than SA is no good, we got some good trades, serves you right, heres some place that will take your units for a bit longer, etc.)?

Lars


----------



## Sandy (Feb 7, 2007)

Lars,

You are right to be outraged, and so am I.  I replied earlier to your previous question to indicate that I own two weeks, each of them a one bedroom.  

I have owned since the resort was first announced here on TUG. 

Leveraging our resources is a good idea.  Any information I get I will post here.


----------



## grest (Feb 8, 2007)

Agreed.  Still cannot find an address for anyone other than where to pay levies, and they are not forthcoming with names/addresses of anyone one the Board of Directors.  Cannot find Le Petit Chalet Shareblocks website either.
We own one 2br week.
Connie


----------



## Carolinian (Feb 8, 2007)

You might ask some of those questions on the South Africa board at www.crimeshare.net (when it is up, which seems to be on and off these days).


----------



## Jan (Feb 8, 2007)

Has anyone tried calling Heather Duncan?  She took over from Herb when he passed away.  Jan


----------



## Born2Travel (Feb 8, 2007)

We own one red one bedroom.  I agree - I'd rather not just "dump" it - I'd hope something can be done to salvage what we have.


----------



## susan1738 (Feb 8, 2007)

*I agree, Lars*

I own a 1 Br.  I'm willing to help in anyway possible to protect our vacation unit, as well.  I wasn't trying to "give up" on our unit; I hope you know.  I AM just happy that we got good use out of them while we could.  I would love to fight to keep getting good use out of them in the future though too.


----------



## Diane (Feb 9, 2007)

Lars,

One of the first steps might be to be sure who know who the current directors are and then figure out how to contact them.   

Does anyone who reads this thread have an annual report later than the one with 2003 on the cover page and containing financials for the period ending in February 2004?  That is the most recent we have and it could be out of date as to the two directors who have been mentioned here.

Another step might be to find out if there is a regulatory agency or body overseeing timeshare investments in South Africa and just what authority it has.  

Diane


----------



## grest (Feb 10, 2007)

Diane said:


> Lars,
> 
> One of the first steps might be to be sure who know who the current directors are and then figure out how to contact them.
> 
> ...



I don't have one...but I think I will start sending daily emails to Ina, where we usually pay our mf's...I simply am not getting a response regarding names, emails of the board of directors...anyone else want to get in on that??
Connie


----------



## Diane (Feb 10, 2007)

*RCI contact in South Africa*

I emailed Desiree at Cape Escapes who has always been most helpful to us and asked if she knew anything about the situation at Seapointer.  She was able to give me the name and email address of the SA RCI contact who keeps them informed as to matters of this nature.  He (or she, I can't tell from the name) is Sodick Baradien at SodcikB@rci.co.za  I have just sent the following message to that address: 

"We are members of RCI and own a week at The Seapointer.  We understand RCI has temporarily suspended The Seapointer but we are unable to obtain any information whatsoever from the resort itself, despite repeated emails to Ina at First Resorts by ourselves and by a number of other people here in the US who also own weeks at The Seapointer.

We would be most grateful if you could answer any or all of the following questions:

1.  What are the quality issues that led to the suspension?

2.  For how long was The Seapointer aware of these issues?

3.  Who are the current directors of the board of The Seapointer?   What are their addresses?

4.  Is there an Annual Report from The Seapointer more recent than the latest we received which has the year 2003 on the cover and contains financials for the period ending February 2004?

5.  Is there a regulatory body in South Africa that has any authority or power over timeshare investments in South Africa?  If so, how can we contact it?

6.  Has Seapointer done anything to correct the quality issues that led to the temporary suspension or given RCI any estimate as to when the problems will be corrected?

Thank you very much for any help or information.  We know we are asking a lot, but we have run out of other places to get current information and are frustrated that we cannot deposit our 2008 week with RCI."

Will let you know what we hear.

Diane


----------



## Carolinian (Feb 10, 2007)

There is an entity known as TISA (Timeshare Institute of South Africa), but they tend to be unhelpful to consumers.  Lamont is on the TISA board which speaks volumes about the organization.

Since both directors are Club Leisure Group heavies, if you want to try to contact them, it would seem logical to address them care of Club Leisure.  I believe someone posted Club Leisure contact info on Crimeshare.


----------



## grest (Feb 11, 2007)

Wonderful letter, Diane.  I essentially same the same letter to the same person.  If enough of us do this, they may feel compelled to reply and let us know what is going on.
Connie


----------



## Diane (Feb 11, 2007)

Great idea, Connie!  I hope others will send something similar. I think we need to be communicating with the directors also, but at this point I am not certain who they are.

Diane


----------



## Diane (Feb 11, 2007)

*TISA -- Timeshare Institute of Southern Africa*

Thank, Carolinian.  For anyone else interested here is their website:  http://www.tisa.co.za/

I have not studied the website but it appears that TISA does accept consumer complaints and will handle them on the basis of written submissions.  I don't see any names that I recognise on the TISA board of directors.

If anyone else is so inclined, please look through the TISA Code of Conduct and see if you think there has been any violation so far.  We may not need to take this step but I think it would help to know all the options out there.

Diane


----------



## Carolinian (Feb 12, 2007)

Looking at the current list of board members, I see that Lamont is no longer there, which is a positive sign.  However, one of the Beekmans, a group only slightly less controversial than the Lamont crowd, is on the board, and the membership list repeatedly lists ''karenp@clubleisure'' as the contact for numerous TISA ''members''.

It probably doesn't hurt to complain to TISA, but the group is regarded as largely a poodle by posters on Crimeshare, in bed with some of the shadiest operators.  If you scroll back on the SA board at Crimeshare, you will find some comments about them.


----------



## Diane (Feb 12, 2007)

I don't think it would hurt and it would tell Seapointer that some of us are not going to just walk away.  

The TISA Code of Conduct is helpful for another reason.  It contains references to various statutes and regulations to which timeshare sellers/operators are subject.  Finding copies of them would be the next step to see whether there is any leverage any place else.

Also, within the TISA Members list on its website there is a Seapointer Owners Association representative.  Her email address is jeaninep@firstresorts.co.za  I have written to her along the lines of the email to the RCI SA representative.  Perhaps we would get some current information if others did so.

Diane


----------



## grest (Feb 12, 2007)

Diane, I realized after the mail to Seapointer at the address you gave came back twice that the address may be just so slightly incorrect.  This time I am trying it at SodickB@rci.co.za, instead of Sodcik..
Connie


----------



## Diane (Feb 12, 2007)

Connie,  I see now that I made a mistake in that email address.  Good for you for figuring it out!  Hope I didn't inconvenience too many people and glad to see you are communicating with Sodick too.

Diane


----------



## Carolinian (Feb 12, 2007)

Diane said:


> Also, within the TISA Members list on its website there is a Seapointer Owners Association representative.  Her email address is jeaninep@firstresorts.co.za  I have written to her along the lines of the email to the RCI SA representative.  Perhaps we would get some current information if others did so.
> 
> Diane



I note that this owners association rep has an email address at the management company.  I do hope you can find someone with some position with Seapointer not connected to Club Leisure or its management arm, First Resorts.

Most SA resorts have an Annual General Meeting where any owner can show up and vote.  I would try to find out when it is, solicit proxies from Tuggers, and send them to someone who will look out for owners.  One of the first questions I would be asking is, ''when is the AGM?''

You might even find a Tugger who will stand for the board.  When I owned at Mt. A, there were two Americans on their board.

There is a December post on Crimeshare with the postal address and telephone numbers of Club Leisure.


----------



## grest (Feb 13, 2007)

Thanks Carolinian.
Connie


----------



## Diane (Feb 13, 2007)

Excellent suggestion Carolinian.  Thanks.

Diane


----------



## grest (Feb 15, 2007)

Just got this from Ina at the Seapointer:

Thank you for the email received. I do apologise for the inconvenience
caused We will be corresponding with you in the next 2 weeks, in connection
with the upgrading of theSeapointer.

Assuring you of our best at all times

Regards

Ina

I smell a special assessment...
Connie


----------



## Diane (Feb 15, 2007)

I think you are right about the special assessment.  Right now I have 3 emails out -- Ina, Sodick and the First Resorts rep to TISA.  No response from any of them.  I have asked Ina and the rep to TISA for the date of the next Annual General Meeting.

Diane


----------



## Diane (Feb 16, 2007)

*Response from Ina*

This is what I received from Ina today:

"Thank you for the email received. The Annual Report of the years ended 2005 & 2006 for the Seapointer are in the course of preparation and will be forwarded to all Shareholders shortly.

There is a full Chairman's report contained within the 2006 Annual Report that will fully address all your queries and concerns.

You are in possession of the last Annual Report. Date on the cover should not be 2003 but 2004. This is due to a printing error.

Assuring you of our best attention at all times."

Any thoughts or suggestions?

Diane


----------



## grest (Feb 16, 2007)

It may be months before we see a report...is there a place where we can view it online when it is ready?  That may be a good question to ask.  Also, again asking for the names/addresses of board of directors...nothing seems particularly forthcoming!
Connie


----------



## grest (Feb 23, 2007)

Has anyone heard anything new?
Connie


----------



## JohnnyO (Feb 23, 2007)

The only thing new I have gotten is another RCI spacebank Return Notice for The Seapointer.


----------



## JohnnyO (Feb 28, 2007)

The First Resorts web site is working.

http://www.firstresorts.co.za/index.php

The staff newletter is updated to Jan 2007.  But the latest news is back in May of 2004.


The Contact us page has the following. I am not sure how up to date this is.

Please do not hesitate to contact us if you have any questions regarding the products and services that we offer.  We look forward to your correspondance and are available at the following contact details:

Our office hours are 08h00 to 17h00 Monday to Friday.  
Telephone: +27 (0) 31 717 7593  
Fax: +27 (0) 31 701 9964 
E-mail: info@firstresorts.co.za 
Postal Address: P O Box 1287
Pinetown
3600
South Africa 

Physical Address: 1 Crompton Street
Pinetown, 
3601, 
South Africa 

http://www.firstresorts.co.za/contact.php


----------



## grest (Mar 7, 2007)

Went to their website and sent another email requesting information...nothing forthcoming so far.
Connie


----------



## grest (Mar 7, 2007)

Got this today:

Dear Mrs St. Pierre

We acknowledge receipt of your e-mail and have duly noted the contents thereof.

May we suggest that you enquire directly from RCI as to why they are not accepting Seapointer spacebankings.

The Board has met and a report is in the process of preparation which will be forwarded to all the owners by the end of March 2007.



so...I guess I'll ask RCI...
Connie


----------



## guitarlars (Mar 8, 2007)

*Amazing -*

Talk about gall, they certainly know darn well why RCI won't take the weeks.

They also know that RCI won't answer and will send us back to the resort.

It's becoming more and more clear that we've got a bunch of con men in charge.

Lars


----------



## Diane (Mar 8, 2007)

How about running for the board, Lars?  We need someone articulate and interested in protecting our interests.  There has been no Annual Report for two years.  I assume that means there has been no shareholder meeting for two years, no doubt in violation of something.  I suspect that whatever it is they are promising to mail soon will include a notice of meeting of shareholders along with a Proxy form.  I, for one, would love to be able to vote for a TUG member.  I suspect we will have the minimum allowable time to find someone to run after the notice is receieved.

Diane


----------



## HuskyJim (Mar 8, 2007)

What email addresses have been used to contact Seapointer or Club Leisure?


----------



## Carolinian (Mar 8, 2007)

One thing that might be interesting for a owner to ask for is the last 12 RCI monthly comment card reports.  Those numbers should be very illuminating, and should probably show a pattern.  It is when those numbers go down that RCI suspends a resort, and they should have been in touch with the resort, probably several times with warnings before lowering the boom.

I am not certain of the rights of members in SA, but if a Tugger who owned there happened to be on the ground in SA, it would be interesting to walk in and ask  for such things as these reports and all correspondence with RCI.  Owners in the US and some other countries have rights to look at quite a few resort records if they demand it.  Right in SA might not be quite as extensive, but I would bet there would still be quite a bit they would have to show a member and let them copy.  Most such laws do not require them to send things on demand.  You have to be there at the office to get it.  It wouldn't hurt to ask them to send it, but the odds of Club Leisure doing so are probably not that great.


----------



## grest (Mar 8, 2007)

First I emailed a few times via Ina, who takes the annual levy, then I used the two email addresses already listed in this thread.
Connie


----------



## Monty (Mar 12, 2007)

*Paying Dues/Depositing Seapointer*

What are you all doing as far as paying dues?   Are you just not paying until 
you get real answers.  That is where I'm headed.

RCI stated to me yesterday (Per her manager) that Seapointer is on the ok list to trade.  The funny thing they couldn't resolve though is why my week was returned after deposit.   The didn't have an explanation.  In the past --I've been able to deposit prior to paying my dues believe it or not.  I didn't pay my dues for this week yet and it was kicked back.  But until I know more about the situation and receive proper documentation of a true board and annual meeting information-- I refuse to continue to fund these persons..


----------



## guitarlars (Mar 12, 2007)

*Madge on Seapointer*

Copied this from the Ask RCI thread (hope that s okay).  This is the most information I've seen, and it appears to confirm that the Seapointer management hasn't been doing a very good job of keeping up the property.

HuskyJim,

From what I've been able to gather, there are some significant refurbishment initiatives being undertaken at Seapointer right now. Owners will not be able to deposit weeks until these initiatives are completed. We should know more in the next 6 to 12 months. Again, any deposits already used for exchange will stay intact.
__________________
~ Madge


----------



## grest (Mar 12, 2007)

I had written to RCI for more information.  I got this reply tonight:


"Hello,

Thank you for your e-mail.

According to our records you are eligible to deposit your weeks for The 
Seapointer with RCI at this time.

Thank you for your interest in RCI.

Kind regards,

Kathy Traeger
Customer Communications Specialist
RCI North America"


Makes you wonder...especially re: trade power...
Connie


----------



## Carolinian (Mar 13, 2007)

If the numbers are low enough for them to get suspended, you can guess easily enough that the VEP must be in the toilet right now.  However, given the demand for the Cape Town area, I suspect they would be most useful for desirable locations, such as in Europe, that also have low VEP's.


----------



## Sandy (Mar 13, 2007)

This entire matter is so distressing to me.  While I have was one of the first to rationalize my purchase with comments such as "_*I've gotten my money's worth out of Seapointer with my first few trades*_ (true!)", I am now reconsidering my suggestion to just "walk away."

The reason is that I have received such fantastic trades with these Seapointer weeks that I am literally spoiled.  

When I think of another cheap, super trader, I cannot come up with another comparison.  I know there are others, but I already own Seapointer.  

I am all set for this year, but I have been used to depositing very early to get the best availability.  The fact that I cannot deposit the 2008 unit is what is bumming me out.  

I will take a deep breath and wait.......


----------



## grest (Mar 14, 2007)

Me too, Sandy.  I am wondering about what exactly needed to be improved and what that will do to trade power....I hate to give it up!
Connie


----------



## JohnnyO (Mar 23, 2007)

*Deposit successful at Trading Places International*

I was able to successfully pay my maintenance fees and deposit my Seapointer 2BR for exchange at Trading Places International.


----------



## Diane (Mar 23, 2007)

Was that for your 2008 week?

Diane


----------



## JohnnyO (Mar 24, 2007)

Yes it was for 2008.



Diane said:


> Was that for your 2008 week?
> 
> Diane


----------

