# Marriott Maui old section or villas?



## kgarfink (Mar 24, 2019)

I have a couple questions that I would LOVE some feedback about. 
1) would you buy a 2 bedroom resale in the old section or in the Lahaina/Napili Villas? 
(We really like that the villas have the washer/dryer and full kitchen) 
2) what is the island view like in the villas? Would you sacrifice an ocean view for an island view in one of the villas? Any other feedback would be great. Thanks!!


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## echino (Mar 24, 2019)

Ocean View old section vs. Island View new section - I would probably choose Island View new section if the price is the same.
Oceanfront old section vs. Island View new section - Oceanfront wins!


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## TXTortoise (Mar 24, 2019)

We stayed in the old towers 2BR OF one week, then new Lahaina tower, OF, the second week this past month.  It was our first time in the new towers.

There is no question that the new towers have a better finish out, and we loved the washer/dryer, but I really did miss the larger bedrooms and three bathrooms in the old tower. Huge bathtub is a bit wasteful.

Setting aside when you travel and how hard it is to reserve, I'd seriously consider an OV in the new towers unless you really like the bigger space, bathrooms and balconies in the old towers.

With the exception of getting a mid-level floor on the garden side of Lahaina that is next to the garage, I think the Lahaina OV has a lot going for it, at a good price point (<$19K), and really good views.  As an owner, with a reservation date of 12 months, I would think you'd get good placement.  The hard question would be 2BR OF in Old building at $25K or 2BR OV in Lahaina at $19K. If you ever plan to rent the studio, the OF will rent easier.

See blue section in this diagram: https://www.smugmug.com/gallery/n-pMXGQ/i-VTBr7jF

If they had fixed weeks/units in the old building, I'd be all over that option....but not going to happen.

FWIW, the latest ROFR pass on the 2BR OF old building was $25K and $29K failed on Lahaina 2BR OF...just heard from a broker who had a MOC 2BR OF clear at $22K, so the variance seems to be closer to $8K for an annual now.


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## vacationtime1 (Mar 24, 2019)

The importance of view varies so much from person to person that it is impossible to generalize.  Before shelling out $25K+, walk the property (day and night) to see what kinds of rooms you might get based on each view category.

The old section is much closer to the ocean than the new towers, so the OF units are more immediate, if that is important.  The best OV rooms in the old section are excellent.  (I was lucky enough to do this on-site research two weeks ago; we had OF in the Molokai Tower.)


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## JIMinNC (Mar 24, 2019)

echino said:


> Ocean View old section vs. Island View new section - I would probably choose Island View new section if the price is the same.



As vacationtime1 said above, view is a very personal preference for each guest. Having just returned from a week in our OV in the old section, I have a couple photos that might be helpful. While not every Ocean View is as good as the 8th floor view we received, as long as you are an owner you should be able to get a reasonably high floor I would think. This was our first time using our ownership, so I'm not sure what the worst OV we might get in the future might look like. With that caveat, here are a couple of view photos:

First, our 8th floor OV. We sat on our balcony and watched whales:





Second, while this is not a view from an Island View in the new towers (Napili Villas is where the Island View units are located), it is similar to the view from those units. The angle those villas have would be more east-facing than this shot (which is looking more to the north-northeast), so they would likely have a better view of the West Maui mountains, but this gives you a flavor for views looking east toward the golf course and mountains.





It would be nice to have a washer-dryer, as is the case in the newer Villas, but I don't think I would trade Ocean View for Island View just for the washer-dryer. The full kitchen in the new Villas is also a plus, but since we usually eat out for dinner on Maui, the kitchenette in the old section generally meets our needs.

Thanks to TXTortoise and his wife, we were able to see a Lahaina Villa unit for the first time earlier this month. As he says above, those units are very nicely finished, and the kitchen and washer-dryer are terrific, but I honestly wasn't as bowled-over by the new Villas as I thought I would be. My biggest beef with the Villas was the living room only has a window, no lanai. So if you want to enjoy the fresh air on your balcony, you have to use one in the bedrooms. In the old section, you have a balcony for each room.


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## hangloose (Mar 24, 2019)

We went through this same decision a few years back.  Old Suites or New Villas?  Which View? 

We chose 2BR OF Old Suites for the following reasons:
- Old Suites were less expensive than New Villas when we purchased.  For 2BR OF, it was about a $5-7k difference at the time.  Sounds about the same now on average.
- Old Suites have lower MFees than New Villas.
- OF in Old Suites is hard to beat! It is so close to the water.  Killer views.  Extra balcony.  New Villa OF isn't far from the water, but not anywhere near as close as Old Suites are.
- Old Suites are more spacious with additional balcony.
- OF rents higher than OV or IV/MGV. (for the years we cannot make it to HI)
- We were okay with no W/D and limited kitchen in Old Suites, gaining third bathroom instead.

General comments.

The OF and OV views at Maui Ocean Club really are fantastic...irregardless of Old Suites or New Villas.  Views which are generally true to their name, not like some other resorts which give peak-a-boo ocean views.  I'd only go for Island or Mountain/Garden view if you don't care about view and want to save money on the re-sale up front purchase.  My 2 cents.


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## mjm1 (Mar 24, 2019)

We opted for the Lahaina/Napili tower OF unit a couple years ago. We were staying in an OF unit in the old towers at the time and toured a 2BR OF unit in the Napili tower during an owners update. While we now prefer the Lahaina tower to Napili, the view from Napili and the finishing in the new tower blew us away.

When we were younger the view didn’t matter as much. At least we were in Hawaii. As time has gone on we now do have a preference for the view. The MF’s are the same within each tower, so we decided to pay the higher upfront cost to get the newer towers and get the OF view. Of course that factor differs when one is considering older vs newer towers. 

I don’t think you can go wrong with either choice. It just depends on your preferences.

Best regards.

Mike


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## JIMinNC (Mar 24, 2019)

hangloose said:


> We chose 2BR OF Old Suites for the following reasons:
> - Old Suites were less expensive than New Villas when we purchased.  For 2BR OF, it was about a $5-7k difference at the time.  Sounds about the same now on average.
> - OF in Old Suites is hard to beat! It is so close to the water.  Killer views.  Extra balcony.  New Villa OF isn't far from the water, but not anywhere near as close as Old Suites are.
> - Old Suites are more spacious with additional balcony.
> ...



I like this logic. Before our recent trip, I would have bet someone 2-1 that if we ever decided to buy a second week at Maui Ocean Club (either an EOY Even to add to our EOY Odd in Old Suites, or even an EY), it would be in the New Villas. Now, I'm not so sure. For all the reasons you noted above, the Old Suites are looking much more attractive.

Our first priority though is to add an EOY Odd Marriott Waiohai so we can have three weeks guaranteed Every Odd Year in Hawaii without using our DC Points (one week MOC, one week Waiohai, and one week Big Island with HGVC points). We could even stay four weeks if we locked off the 2BR at MOC and stayed one week in the 1BR and one week in the studio. We're using some DC Points and HGVC points to go back to Maui/Big Island in Feb 2020 to test drive the Every Year concept. If we decide that is more appealing than just EOY, then we may add an Even Year or even an Every Year at MOC. We'll see.


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## hangloose (Mar 24, 2019)

JIMinNC said:


> I like this logic. Before our recent trip, I would have bet someone 2-1 that if we ever decided to buy a second week at Maui Ocean Club (either an EOY Even to add to our EOY Odd in Old Suites, or even an EY), it would be in the New Villas. Now, I'm not so sure. For all the reasons you noted above, the Old Suites are looking much more attractive.



I also forgot to add....Old Suites MFees are less than the New Villas.   Another -$ plus for our choice of Old Suites.

Higher MFees in the New Villas does certainly show in the higher quality finish, as well as in the rent.  But, just wasn't worth it to us.  To each their own...


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## TXTortoise (Mar 24, 2019)

This discussion, my visit with Jim last month on island and a conversation with MOC room control today, still has me looping back from my quest for fixed winter weeks to my original plan of Feb OF/OV, high floor.  I think Jim's plan above, at least for Maui/Kauai, is one of the best solutions I've seen to minimize capital expense.  I'd still be tempted to buy annual and rent the odd year, since the buy-in is only $7-8K more.  I'm starting to miss Kauai, but would probably rent EOY, if I can ever manage to get out there for three weeks.

FWIW, room control said her easiest bookings are 1BR, due to number of units. (I just hate to pay the same MF for 1BR vs 2BR and loss of rental opportunity/usage of the studio) Getting 7th floor or above is difficult as Molokai 2BR OF are only two per floor, while Lahaina has four. Her biggest juggling act is that long-time users have 2-3 weeks, lock them off for 4-6 weeks, breaking up the availability of 2BRs for February.  She said if I wasn't view contained or even was good with fifth floor, two-week sequential OF becomes much easier.

Getting the reservation is still the biggest unknown, when doing two sequential weeks.


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## JIMinNC (Mar 24, 2019)

TXTortoise said:


> This discussion, my visit with Jim last month on island and a conversation with MOC room control today, still has me looping back from my quest for fixed winter weeks to my original plan of Feb OF/OV, high floor.  I think Jim's plan above, at least for Maui/Kauai, is one of the best solutions I've seen to minimize capital expense.  I'd still be tempted to buy annual and rent the odd year, since the buy-in is only $7-8K more.  I'm starting to miss Kauai, but would probably rent EOY, if I can ever manage to get out there for three weeks.



The thing about Waiohai is, if you are content with Island View (since that resort has many so-so Ocean Views), the up front buy-in may only be around $4,000 for EOY. Most IV EOY listings are $3750 to $4500, but a TUGger got exercised at $3750 in January, so not sure where the threshold is. Might take $4000 or so, but I should be testing it out soon. The "buy EY-rent when you don't use" logic is sound, but I still am reluctant to screw with the stress of trying to rent except in rare occasions. I would be more willing to try to lock-off our EOY MOC and try to rent the studio since if it doesn't rent, so what? But trying to rent an entire 2BR and recoup a $2100 mf as often as EOY is something I can't get too excited about - even if someone else is fielding the calls and doing all the work.



TXTortoise said:


> FWIW, room control said her easiest bookings are 1BR, due to number of units. (I just hate to pay the same MF for 1BR vs 2BR and loss of rental opportunity/usage of the studio) Getting 7th floor or above is difficult as Molokai 2BRs are only two per floor, while Lahaina has four. Her biggest juggling act is that long-time users have 2-3 weeks, lock them off for 4-6 weeks, breaking up the availability of 2BRs for February.  She said if I wasn't view contained or even was good with fifth floor, two-week sequential OF becomes much easier.
> 
> Getting the reservation is still the biggest unknown, when doing two sequential weeks.



You are obviously talking about OF 2BR units when you say two/floor in Molokai and four/floor in Lanai? Those seem more problematic than OV it seems. I wish I knew how likely a great OV like we got earlier this month will be in the future. I can't imagine we can grow to expect that good every time, I just wish I knew what was the _worst_ we could reasonably expect. What does MOC room control consider a "high floor" to be?


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## TXTortoise (Mar 24, 2019)

JIMinNC said:


> The thing about Waiohai is, if you are content with Island View (since that resort has many so-so Ocean Views), the up front buy-in may only be around $4,000 for EOY. Most IV EOY listings are $3750 to $4500, but a TUGger got exercised at $3750 in January, so not sure where the threshold is. Might take $4000 or so, but I should be testing it out soon. The "buy EY-rent when you don't use" logic is sound, but I still am reluctant to screw with the stress of trying to rent except in rare occasions. I would be more willing to try to lock-off our EOY MOC and try to rent the studio since if it doesn't rent, so what? But trying to rent an entire 2BR and recoup a $2100 mf as often as EOY is something I can't get too excited about - even if someone else is fielding the calls and doing all the work.
> 
> You are obviously talking about OF 2BR units when you say two/floor in Molokai and four/floor in Lanai?


  Correct, and updated.

Guess I didn't realize EOY Waiohai was that low, about what a one week OF rental is I believe....$4500 for President's Week next year on VC.  If you are committing to three islands EOY, that does make sense.

She said the 2BR OV are limited, but overall more rooms to work with.  Priority is reservation date stamp and Marriott ownership level after that.


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## JIMinNC (Mar 25, 2019)

TXTortoise said:


> She said the 2BR OV are limited, but overall more rooms to work with.  Priority is reservation date stamp and Marriott ownership level after that.



We must have had a great date stamp to get the unit we got (we did reserve at 12 months @ 9am) because we are bottom of the barrel as far as Ownership level (not even Select). I do assume that weeks owners get priority over Points though. My wife is Bonvoy Titanium, so not sure if that matters.

That info probably doesn't bode well for our 2020 1BR OV assignment. We made that reservation using points less than 11 months out, and just a few days after we made it, all the 1BR points availability was gone, so we'll only rank above II traders. Gotta reset expectations!


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## dougp26364 (Mar 25, 2019)

In Hawaii, view is very important to us secondary to the cost associated with traveling for this type of vacation. To that end, either new or old would have to be, at a minimum, ocean view. 

Having said that there is no doubt we’d rather own the new towers instead of the older towers, even though we would find the old towers acceptable.


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## hangloose (Mar 25, 2019)

I love Kauai.   Got married at KBC.  No Hawaiian island is as beautiful at Kauai (IMO).

But, we didn't buy Kauai for the following reasons:

- Waiohai has no lock-offs.  This was a deal breaker for us.
- Waiohai OV is hit or miss (often peak-a-boo).   Nothing near the OV at Maui (fantastic in most rooms).  If we bought Waiohai, I would buy IV.  A view of the Kauai mountains is pretty nice given how lush they are and the interiors of Waiohai are nice as well (reminds me a little bit of Surfwatch interior in HHI).
- KBC has lock-offs (yay! ), but the villas aren't up to snuff (boo ).  Maui Old Suites are nicer and more accommodating.

Kauai also appears to rent not nearly as well as Maui (or even Oahu).  A significant detractor for us.


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## JIMinNC (Mar 25, 2019)

hangloose said:


> I love Kauai.   Got married at KBC.  No Hawaiian island is as beautiful at Kauai (IMO).
> 
> But, we didn't buy Kauai for the following reasons:
> 
> ...



All valid points, and there's no question Maui Ocean Club is the best, all things considered. That's the only place we would likely consider staying two weeks in the future. We can never seem to get everything done we want to do and eat in every great restaurant in one week on Maui.

But if you want to go to Kauai, use weeks instead of points, and don't like the villas at KBC, Waiohai is really the only viable option. We're looking at an EOY Island View for the reasons you suggested in your second bullet point, and those seem very cost effective based on listing prices. We'll see what MVC does re:ROFR. The lack of lock-offs isn't a big deal for us because I doubt we would ever lock-off and stay two weeks there, and we have no interest in renting out our unit. The 2BR maintenance fees at Waiohai are actually about $50 _*cheaper*_ per use year than a 1BR at Maui Ocean Club. In years we don't need 2BR, we'll just have an extra bathroom to use. Can make getting ready for dinner quicker when it's just the two of us. All things considered, it seems the most economical way to visit Kauai on a regular basis, and to complement our MOC ownership.


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## Dean (Mar 25, 2019)

kgarfink said:


> I have a couple questions that I would LOVE some feedback about.
> 1) would you buy a 2 bedroom resale in the old section or in the Lahaina/Napili Villas?
> (We really like that the villas have the washer/dryer and full kitchen)
> 2) what is the island view like in the villas? Would you sacrifice an ocean view for an island view in one of the villas? Any other feedback would be great. Thanks!!


I'll echo but here are my thoughts.  It really depends on what you value.  Is it view, kitchen both or neither.  Island view will be far less and older section less side by side.  Maybe you need a specific week or want to lock in a unit location and go for a fixed week/fixed unit option.  Personally if you'll use it every time or rent it I'd go with OS or OF but if you'd exchange it part of the time and aren't tied to the other options, I'd go with IV cheapest you can get.


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## ljmiii (Mar 26, 2019)

kgarfink said:


> I have a couple questions that I would LOVE some feedback about.
> 1) would you buy a 2 bedroom resale in the old section or in the Lahaina/Napili Villas?
> (We really like that the villas have the washer/dryer and full kitchen)
> 2) what is the island view like in the villas? Would you sacrifice an ocean view for an island view in one of the villas? Any other feedback would be great. Thanks!!


Island View is only in the Napili tower and the views of the West Maui Mountains are stunning. Garden view in the Lahaina tower is more problematic because the parking structure behind Lahaina is much taller. Ocean Front is in both Lahaina and Napili (we've stayed in both using our Napili week), but Ocean View is only in Lahaina.

When we bought our MOC EOY 2BR week the lack of washer/dryer in the villa made the old towers a complete non starter for us. We like to pack light and the ability to throw clothes in the machine at the start or end of our day is essential to how we travel...particularly with kids. Another factor which pointed us to one of the new towers is the nicer 'common room' with a big dining room table that seats us, our kids, and a grandparent or three. As others have noted, the old towers do have advantages in terms of balconies, proximity to the ocean, and ease of booking.


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## dagger1 (Apr 20, 2019)

I would like to ask all of you MOC experts a question I have already pursued re: our recent EOYO Waiohai acquisition.  We have completed our EOYO 3 week Hawaii purchases (Ko’Olina, Waiohai and Hyatt Ka’anapali) and are now thinking about a possible 10-12 day  EOYE stay.  This would probably be 4 days on Waikiki and a week at MOC.  View and Lanai size  are most important to us, particularly a Lanai off the living room, so we are considering MOC Old Tower.  My question has to do with ADA rooms at the Old Towers.  Has anyone been assigned one of these rooms?  If they are generally on the lower floors, should we consider buying OV rather than spending a lot more for OF.  I will probably call the resort, and try to get a tour when we are on Maui in September, but I thought I might pick some experienced brains as well.


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## TXTortoise (Apr 20, 2019)

I’d call Room Control and ask where and how many ADA rooms they have. Then how difficult it might be to get OF vs OV for the times you usually visit. 

Ashlan and others have been extremely open and helpful when I had questions about how they do assignments and what availability issues they deal with by season. 

Suggest calling 8am to 1:30pm their time.


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## dagger1 (Apr 20, 2019)

TXTortoise said:


> I’d call Room Control and ask where and how many ADA rooms they have. Then how difficult it might be to get OF vs OV for the times you usually visit.
> 
> Ashlan and others have been extremely open and helpful when I had questions about how they do assignments and what availability issues they deal with by season.
> 
> Suggest calling 8am to 1:30pm their time.


Will definitely do that.  Thanks!


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## csodjd (Jul 17, 2019)

dagger1 said:


> Will definitely do that.  Thanks!


Curious if you called about ADA rooms and what they said.


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## dagger1 (Jul 17, 2019)

I haven’t called yet.  But need to do it because we still are interested in buying a week there..


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## taffy19 (Jul 17, 2019)

dagger1 said:


> I haven’t called yet.  But need to do it because we still are interested in buying a week there..


I don’t know why you keep saying that the living room doesn’t have a door to the Lanai?

There is a side door to the Lanai in the living room and a beautiful picture window with a magnificent view!  It is true that the balcony could have been larger in the Lahaina tower.

The windows are tinted and you can sit in the living and dining room or stand in the kitchen and still spot the whales jumping out of the ocean while being comfortable with A/C during the summer months.  It is hot in the room in the afternoon even in March.

Since you are interested vacationing during the summer months, I believe, I suggest not to make a hasty decision and ask to see a model first before you make your final decision.

Doug26364 shows all the ADA condo
numbers in both phases of the MOC

Good luck with the hunt!


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## pchung6 (Jul 17, 2019)

If I can take OF or OV in new building, that's what I would do.  Otherwise, will you consider OF or OV at Westin ka'anapali?  I would only go for OF or OV in Hawaii.


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## dagger1 (Jul 17, 2019)

taffy19 said:


> I don’t know why you keep saying that the living room doesn’t have a door to the Lanai?
> 
> There is a side door to the Lanai in the living room and a beautiful picture window with a magnificent view!  It is true that the balcony could have been larger in the Lahaina tower.
> 
> ...


For some reason I thought I read somewhere that the new towers accessed The Lanai’s from the bedrooms and the old towers accessed the Lanai through the living room.  So both old and new towers have Lanai access from the living room?  And the Lanai’s are the same size old and new towers, or does one have a larger Lanai?


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## dagger1 (Jul 17, 2019)

pchung6 said:


> If I can take OF or OV in new building, that's what I would do.  Otherwise, will you consider OF or OV at Westin ka'anapali?  I would only go for OF or OV in Hawaii.


Since my wife is in a wheelchair, we prefer being close to Whalers Village.


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## csodjd (Jul 17, 2019)

dagger1 said:


> For some reason I thought I read somewhere that the new towers accessed The Lanai’s from the bedrooms and the old towers accessed the Lanai through the living room.  So both old and new towers have Lanai access from the living room?  And the Lanai’s are the same size old and new towers, or does one have a larger Lanai?


I can speak for the Lahaina tower 2-BR OF units, because I was just there. 

There are two Lanai's. They are not particularly large. One is accessible only from the "lock-off" room, which is the second bedroom. We never used that one at all. 

The other is located at the ocean end of the master bedroom and is accessible from either the master or the living/family room area. That is both good and bad. It does mean you must close the blinds/drapes in the master if you have grown kids, as we did, in the other rooms since they can go onto that Lanai from the family room and there's only a window between them and you in the master bedroom.


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## TXTortoise (Jul 17, 2019)

You mentioned buying in the original towers, I believe. Both bedrooms and living room have their own Lanai with direct access.

If you are interested in the newer Lahaina or Napili towers you can walk through the 2BR unit here: (I've not been able to find one for the old towers.)

https://my.matterport.com/show/?m=iEddUVHKoKG?width=853&height=480&border=false


FWIW, my first owned week at MOC was in the old towers and I concur with all the points Jim makes below about those rooms. We've since bought in the new towers, primarily because I could get fixed weeks/units.  While we love the washer/dryer, the size of the rooms and lanais in the old tower have greater appeal to us...but not knowing what week we could get or the room location pushed us to Lahaina tower. (Which aren't too shabby. ;-)


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## JIMinNC (Jul 17, 2019)

pchung6 said:


> If I can take OF or OV in new building, that's what I would do.  Otherwise, will you consider OF or OV at Westin ka'anapali?  I would only go for OF or OV in Hawaii.



I agree with the only OV or OF in Hawaii opinion, but might have a slightly different thought on the old vs new tower. As I said in post #5 above, while the new towers are nicely finished/furnished and are newer purpose built vs a hotel conversion, I wasn't as bowled over by the new towers as I thought I would be. Given the price differential, unless you must have a full kitchen and an in-unit washer/dryer, I think the original towers are a better value, plus you have three separate lanais and three full baths. In our case, we only eat breakfast in the room since we love eating out in Maui - so many great places - and for a week, no washer/dryer is no big deal as we would most likely have a w/d the week prior or after on another island. For our preferences we would also pick the MOC original towers over the Westin because of the location in South Kaanapali instead of North Kaanapali. We like the easy access to Whalers Village, but recognize some people prefer the less crowded area on the north side.


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## Shaun (Jul 17, 2019)

JIMinNC said:


> I agree with the only OV or OF in Hawaii opinion, but might have a slightly different thought on the old vs new tower. As I said in post #5 above, while the new towers are nicely finished/furnished and are newer purpose built vs a hotel conversion, I wasn't as bowled over by the new towers as I thought I would be. Given the price differential, unless you must have a full kitchen and an in-unit washer/dryer, I think the original towers are a better value, plus you have three separate lanais and three full baths. In our case, we only eat breakfast in the room since we love eating out in Maui - so many great places - and for a week, no washer/dryer is no big deal as we would most likely have a w/d the week prior or after on another island. For our preferences we would also pick the MOC original towers over the Westin because of the location in South Kaanapali instead of North Kaanapali. We like the easy access to Whalers Village, but recognize some people prefer the less crowded area on the north side.


I feel the same way that you do. I love the original or old towers, I love the location of being right by the big pool and looking over the big pool at the ocean, it's a spectacular view and I feel that it has more of a Hawaiian feel.  I've always liked pool views but combining it with that beautiful ocean is hard to beat.  I'm sure the new towers have great views also but they don't look over that gorgeous 3 1/2 acre pool. Maybe the 3 1/2 acre pool (as advertised) is all of the pools combined, I don't know but the main pool is huge in the original towers.


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## pchung6 (Jul 18, 2019)

JIMinNC said:


> I agree with the only OV or OF in Hawaii opinion, but might have a slightly different thought on the old vs new tower. As I said in post #5 above, while the new towers are nicely finished/furnished and are newer purpose built vs a hotel conversion, I wasn't as bowled over by the new towers as I thought I would be. Given the price differential, unless you must have a full kitchen and an in-unit washer/dryer, I think the original towers are a better value, plus you have three separate lanais and three full baths. In our case, we only eat breakfast in the room since we love eating out in Maui - so many great places - and for a week, no washer/dryer is no big deal as we would most likely have a w/d the week prior or after on another island. For our preferences we would also pick the MOC original towers over the Westin because of the location in South Kaanapali instead of North Kaanapali. We like the easy access to Whalers Village, but recognize some people prefer the less crowded area on the north side.



But isn't old towner was converted from hotel rooms and has no kitchen and washer/dryer? I understand the easy access to Whaler Village, but what's the difference in price and MF between old and new? Personally, for me, I need kitchen access to make my own breakfast and prefer less people area in north.


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## taffy19 (Jul 18, 2019)

dagger1 said:


> For some reason I thought I read somewhere that the new towers accessed The Lanai’s from the bedrooms and the old towers accessed the Lanai through the living room.  So both old and new towers have Lanai access from the living room?  And the Lanai’s are the same size old and new towers, or does one have a larger Lanai?


TXTortoise showed you the side door in his link so you have an idea what it looks like.

I mentioned it to my husband tonight and he believes that the door opening isn’t wide enough for a big electrical wheelchair. You may want to ask the front desk at this resort.

They would also have to move the furniture around to have enough room.  We have done that ourselves.

@csodjd mentioned the problem with not having enough privacy but you will have that too with the HKB next door where you share the same Lanai too with the living room but there is enough space to sit away from your bedroom if your family or guests respect your privacy.

You cannot avoid it at the MM1 because it is right in front of the master bedroom’s sliding glass door which is wide enough for an electrical wheelchair.

The lower floor balconies of the older buildings are a lot deeper and roomier but then you aren’t guaranteed the right week or view.

The more weeks you own, the better your chances are to get what you want.

It all depends what is most important to you.


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## JIMinNC (Jul 18, 2019)

pchung6 said:


> But isn't old towner was converted from hotel rooms and has no kitchen and washer/dryer? I understand the easy access to Whaler Village, but what's the difference in price and MF between old and new? Personally, for me, I need kitchen access to make my own breakfast and prefer less people area in north.



Yes, the old towers are converted from hotel rooms - three hotel rooms make one 2BR unit. The center unit of the three has the living room and kitchen. The kitchen has an apartment size (3/4 size) refrigerator, dishwasher, microwave and counter top appliances. Everything but a cooktop and an oven. In March we cooked breakfast in the room every morning - eggs, grits/oatmeal, bacon - all done in the microwave. No washer/dryer but we can manage without that for a week as long as the week before or after we have one on another island. Two weeks on Maui would be tougher, but they do have a community laundry on the first floor. Not ideal, but workable in a pinch. 

Here are the 2019 maintenance fees and resale pricing for a 2BR in the original and new towers:

Original tower 2BR: $2408 maintenance fee; resale pricing around $16,000 for OV and $24,000 for OF
New towers 2BR: $2697 maintenance fee; resale pricing around $24,000 for OV and $31,000 to $35,000 for OF (floating week prices; fixed week prices vary greatly)

The other consideration is the floating week OF units in the new towers can be notoriously difficult to book in peak winter whale season, even for owners, due to multi-week owners stringing weeks together, some for the purposes of rentals.

As you note, the north/south location is a personal preference item. We elected to choose the south location of MOC for ownership over the better units at the Westin, but we would love to have the opportunity to try the Westin some time if the merger opens up that opportunity. I've heard great things about it. Could be a nice change of pace if and when we decide to go in Even years (our MOC ownership is Odd-year only).


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## dagger1 (Jul 18, 2019)

taffy19 said:


> TXTortoise showed you the side door in his link so you have an idea what it looks like.
> 
> I mentioned it to my husband tonight and he believes that the door opening isn’t wide enough for a big electrical wheelchair. You may want to ask the front desk at this resort.
> 
> ...


Thanks!!!


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## dagger1 (Jul 18, 2019)

TXTortoise said:


> You mentioned buying in the original towers, I believe. Both bedrooms and living room have their own Lanai with direct access.
> 
> If you are interested in the newer Lahaina or Napili towers you can walk through the 2BR unit here: (I've not been able to find one for the old towers.)
> 
> ...


I finally got a chance to view this Lahaina “walk thru”, thanks for the great visual.  I wish all timeshares offered this.  I now see exactly what you mean about the new tower Lanai’s and access.  It does look like my wife’s manual (that means I push) wheelchair would fit thru the door accessing the Master BR Lanai, but there might only be room for 2 of us considering the bulk of the wheelchair.  I assume the Lanai in the old towers is bigger?  We almost always travel with family/friends and group Lanai time is a very important beginning and ending of day ritual for us.  
We have used communal laundries before and this has never been a problem or inconvenience for us.  We generally due relatively light breakfasts and lunches, and generally grill dinner (with a good single malt as I have said before).  The old towers are probably where we should be.


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## csodjd (Jul 18, 2019)

JIMinNC said:


> Yes, the old towers are converted from hotel rooms - three hotel rooms make one 2BR unit. The center unit of the three has the living room and kitchen. The kitchen has an apartment size (3/4 size) refrigerator, dishwasher, microwave and counter top appliances. Everything but a cooktop and an oven. In March we cooked breakfast in the room every morning - eggs, grits/oatmeal, bacon - all done in the microwave. No washer/dryer but we can manage without that for a week as long as the week before or after we have one on another island. Two weeks on Maui would be tougher, but they do have a community laundry on the first floor. Not ideal, but workable in a pinch.


Would it work, be convenient or even helpful to just bring along a portable single cooktop/range? They sell for about $50 or so, and seems would work fine for a skillet for eggs, or grilled cheese or even stir fry.


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## CalGalTraveler (Jul 18, 2019)

JIMinNC said:


> Yes, the old towers are converted from hotel rooms - three hotel rooms make one 2BR unit. The center unit of the three has the living room and kitchen. The kitchen has an apartment size (3/4 size) refrigerator, dishwasher, microwave and counter top appliances. Everything but a cooktop and an oven. In March we cooked breakfast in the room every morning - eggs, grits/oatmeal, bacon - all done in the microwave. No washer/dryer but we can manage without that for a week as long as the week before or after we have one on another island. Two weeks on Maui would be tougher, but they do have a community laundry on the first floor. Not ideal, but workable in a pinch.
> 
> Here are the 2019 maintenance fees and resale pricing for a 2BR in the original and new towers:
> 
> ...



Great info. Two questions on the old section:

1) What would a resale EOY 2 bdrm Old Tower OF Cost?
2) Can you lock off an old Tower 2 bdrm OF?  If so, what's the kitchen like on the studio side? Is it a full balcony or juliette?
3) If you can lock-off, can you attach to an existing week to make 2 weeks stay with same OF preference? What if you want to use the studio the following year to make an annual? Are you guaranteed OF in the off year?


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## Swice (Jul 18, 2019)

BTW, refresh my memory:     Which Interval code for the 2-bedrooms with kitchens?


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## JIMinNC (Jul 18, 2019)

csodjd said:


> Would it work, be convenient or even helpful to just bring along a portable single cooktop/range? They sell for about $50 or so, and seems would work fine for a skillet for eggs, or grilled cheese or even stir fry.



Not for us. Too much to carry just to cook. As I said, we fixed everything we needed with the microwave in March. Fed four people for breakfast - us and our two 20+ kids.


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## JIMinNC (Jul 18, 2019)

CalGalTraveler said:


> Great info. Two questions on the old section:
> 
> 1) What would a resale EOY 2 bdrm Old Tower OF Cost?
> 2) Can you lock off an old Tower 2 bdrm OF?  If so, what's the kitchen like on the studio side? Is it a full balcony or juliette?
> 3) If you can lock-off, can you attach to an existing week to make 2 weeks stay with same OF preference? What if you want to use the studio the following year to make an annual? Are you guaranteed OF in the off year?



1) I've seen EOY 2BR OF listed around $12K to $13K.
2) All 2BR OF units in the older towers lock off as far as I know. The studio has a small dorm sized frig, small microwave, and coffee pot. All three rooms - master, living room, second bedroom have full balconies.
3) You can lock off and stay in a 1BR OF for one week and a Studio OF for week two. You might be assigned different units though; not necessarily the adjoining studio. Or you can book both for the same week if you want the studio to be totally separate for some reason. You can't use the studio in the following (off) year unless you deposit to II and request a trade. Then if you are lucky and get a trade (not sure if you would be successful or not) you would get an II room assignment which is usually pot-luck. We don't even have an II account for our two Hawaii unenrolled weeks since they can't use the free II account that can be used if the week is enrolled in the DC. I try to avoid II whenever possible.


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## Dean (Jul 18, 2019)

CalGalTraveler said:


> Great info. Two questions on the old section:
> 
> 1) What would a resale EOY 2 bdrm Old Tower OF Cost?
> 2) Can you lock off an old Tower 2 bdrm OF?  If so, what's the kitchen like on the studio side? Is it a full balcony or juliette?
> 3) If you can lock-off, can you attach to an existing week to make 2 weeks stay with same OF preference? What if you want to use the studio the following year to make an annual? Are you guaranteed OF in the off year?


I don't follow prices there as much as some do.  I'd agree with Jim on the lockout and usage option.  For off years you can only go through II and there is no view guarantee.


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## taffy19 (Jul 18, 2019)

Swice said:


> BTW, refresh my memory:     Which Interval code for the 2-bedrooms with kitchens?


MM1.


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## csodjd (Jul 18, 2019)

JIMinNC said:


> 1) I've seen EOY 2BR OF listed around $12K to $13K.


I'm in the market right now. I'm being told in the old buildings there are no 2BR OF units available. There is a 2BR OV, and IT is in the $12k area. There are some 1BR OF units available for about half the price. 

So, it begs the difficult question. If I were committed to buying something, and even assuming it's not about the purchase price difference, which is a better choice? MF are almost the same (about $100 more for the 2BR.) A 2BR ocean VIEW or a 1BR ocean FRONT? 

For a sense of us, we have a 2BR ocean View at the Hilton Hawaiian Village, wasn't that excited about the view, so just bought a 2BR ocean Front there. But, I have no idea how much difference there is between OF and OV in the MOC buildings. Obviously a 2BR offers a lot of benefits, including bring family, stay 2 weeks, rent the studio, etc. But at the cost of how much less a view?


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## Shaun (Jul 18, 2019)

csodjd said:


> I'm in the market right now. I'm being told in the old buildings there are no 2BR OF units available. There is a 2BR OV, and IT is in the $12k area. There are some 1BR OF units available for about half the price.
> 
> So, it begs the difficult question. If I were committed to buying something, and even assuming it's not about the purchase price difference, which is a better choice? MF are almost the same (about $100 more for the 2BR.) A 2BR ocean VIEW or a 1BR ocean FRONT?
> 
> For a sense of us, we have a 2BR ocean View at the Hilton Hawaiian Village, wasn't that excited about the view, so just bought a 2BR ocean Front there. But, I have no idea how much difference there is between OF and OV in the MOC buildings. Obviously a 2BR offers a lot of benefits, including bring family, stay 2 weeks, rent the studio, etc. But at the cost of how much less a view?


My vote would be for the 2BR OV for the reasons that you've mentioned. I'm sure the OF is a great view but I like my OV because I request to overlook the pool and also out to the ocean which is the best of both worlds to me. I'm in contract (already passed ROFR) for an EOY OV for 8k so you can definitely get them a lot less than 12k. I might try and buy an OF later on an EOY.


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## csodjd (Jul 18, 2019)

Shaun said:


> My vote would be for the 2BR OV for the reasons that you've mentioned. I'm sure the OF is a great view but I like my OV because I request to overlook the pool and also out to the ocean which is the best of both worlds to me. I'm in contract (already passed ROFR) for an EOY OV for 8k so you can definitely get them a lot less than 12k. I might try and buy an OF later on an EOY.


Thanks. Where did you find the unit you're in contract with? Redweek? Somewhere else? What was the asking price?


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## Shaun (Jul 18, 2019)

csodjd said:


> Thanks. Where did you find the unit you're in contract with? Redweek? Somewhere else? What was the asking price?


I found it on Redweek, the asking price was $8,900 I believe.  I have a broker that I'm buying a different one from currently (an annual 2BR OV) and she has a 2BR EOY Oceanfront for sale.  Private message me and I'll give you her info.


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## JIMinNC (Jul 18, 2019)

csodjd said:


> I'm in the market right now. I'm being told in the old buildings there are no 2BR OF units available. There is a 2BR OV, and IT is in the $12k area. There are some 1BR OF units available for about half the price.
> 
> So, it begs the difficult question. If I were committed to buying something, and even assuming it's not about the purchase price difference, which is a better choice? MF are almost the same (about $100 more for the 2BR.) A 2BR ocean VIEW or a 1BR ocean FRONT?
> 
> For a sense of us, we have a 2BR ocean View at the Hilton Hawaiian Village, wasn't that excited about the view, so just bought a 2BR ocean Front there. But, I have no idea how much difference there is between OF and OV in the MOC buildings. Obviously a 2BR offers a lot of benefits, including bring family, stay 2 weeks, rent the studio, etc. But at the cost of how much less a view?



In my opinion, no way you should pay $12K for 2BR OV EOY. We paid $8K in early 2018, and I've seen them listed since for $8K - $9K.

To your point, we bought the 2BR instead of the 1BR mainly because the MF is almost the same, and it just offers more flexibility than a 1BR. As an owner you should get a decent OV assignment. We got a great unit in March on the 8th floor. Not sure we can always do that well, but I really like the OV at MOC. As Shaun noted, the view over the pool is in some ways more scenic than a straight-on OF. I posted this earlier in this thread, but it's relevant to your question so I'll post again. Here was our OV in March.



 

Since this was our first usage of our week, I have no idea if we can consistently get this good of an assignment, but if it is anywhere close to this in the future, no way I would choose a 1BR OF over the flexibility of a 2BR OV.


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## csodjd (Jul 18, 2019)

JIMinNC said:


> In my opinion, no way you should pay $12K for 2BR OV EOY. We paid $8K in early 2018, and I've seen them listed since for $8K - $9K.
> 
> To your point, we bought the 2BR instead of the 1BR mainly because the MF is almost the same, and it just offers more flexibility than a 1BR. As an owner you should get a decent OV assignment. We got a great unit in March on the 8th floor. Not sure we can always do that well, but I really like the OV at MOC. As Shaun noted, the view over the pool is in some ways more scenic than a straight-on OF. I posted this earlier in this thread, but it's relevant to your question so I'll post again. Here was our OV in March.
> 
> ...


We'd like that room please. <g>


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## dagger1 (Jul 18, 2019)

We have made an offer on a 2/3 EOYO OV and it has been accepted, contracts signed and delivered, so now waiting on ROFR.


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## taffy19 (Jul 18, 2019)

dagger1 said:


> We have made an offer on a 2/3 EOYO OV and it has been accepted, contracts signed and delivered, so now waiting on ROFR.


Congratulations!


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## csodjd (Jul 19, 2019)

dagger1 said:


> We have made an offer on a 2/3 EOYO OV and it has been accepted, contracts signed and delivered, so now waiting on ROFR.


Would you be willing to let me know the asking price and agreed upon price? I'm looking for the same thing, even year.


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## dagger1 (Jul 19, 2019)

csodjd said:


> Would you be willing to let me know the asking price and agreed upon price? I'm looking for the same thing, even year.


Sure.  There was no asking price, we had given a broker a price that we would be comfortable with.  $7500 seller pays all closing costs.  She found a seller, sent us the purchase contract, and done.  DocuSign is wonderful!


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## JIMinNC (Jul 19, 2019)

dagger1 said:


> Sure.  There was no asking price, we had given a broker a price that we would be comfortable with.  $7500 seller pays all closing costs.  She found a seller, sent us the purchase contract, and done.  DocuSign is wonderful!



It will be interesting to see if that passes. With seller paying closing, it would seem that's a net to seller of only $6500 to $7000, depending on who does the closing. ROFR is unpredictable but that may be at a high risk of MVC taking it. If it passes it will be a GREAT deal for an EOY 2BR at MOC. Good luck!


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## dagger1 (Jul 19, 2019)

JIMinNC said:


> It will be interesting to see if that passes. With seller paying closing, it would seem that's a net to seller of only $6500 to $7000, depending on who does the closing. ROFR is unpredictable but that may be at a high risk of MVC taking it. If it passes it will be a GREAT deal for an EOY 2BR at MOC. Good luck!


Thanks for the well wishes.  Also, it’s important to keep in mind that first use is 2021, so I will be paying the MF’s due January 2020 and also January 2021 before our first stay at MOC...


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## JIMinNC (Jul 19, 2019)

dagger1 said:


> Thanks for the well wishes.  Also, it’s important to keep in mind that first use is 2021, so I will be paying the MF’s due January 2020 and also January 2021 before our first stay at MOC...



That's the customary way it's done and was the same when we bought our EOYO for $8K in late 2017/early 2018. We paid 2018 and 2019 MF for 2019 usage. Only difference was we paid closing.


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## dagger1 (Jul 19, 2019)

JIMinNC said:


> That's the customary way it's done and was the same when we bought our EOYO for $8K in late 2017/early 2018. We paid 2018 and 2019 MF for 2019 usage. Only difference was we paid closing.


JimnNC, Do I remember correctly that you have EOYO MOC and Waiohai?


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## JIMinNC (Jul 19, 2019)

dagger1 said:


> JimnNC, Do I remember correctly that you have EOYO MOC and Waiohai?



Yes. EOYO at both places. 2BR IV at Waiohai and 2BR OV at MOC


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## Shaun (Jul 19, 2019)

JIMinNC said:


> It will be interesting to see if that passes. With seller paying closing, it would seem that's a net to seller of only $6500 to $7000, depending on who does the closing. ROFR is unpredictable but that may be at a high risk of MVC taking it. If it passes it will be a GREAT deal for an EOY 2BR at MOC. Good luck!


Are you sure that Marriott takes closing costs on his offer into their calculations?  I don't think that they do because when I've got my ROFR from Marriott it always says the contract price and doesn't add the closing costs that I'm paying into that contract price on the ROFR letter.  Take for instance my 2BR MOC annual OV that I'm in contract right now on.  I offered 15k and the closing costs were 1k.  When I got the ROFR letter from Marriott it said that they waived ROFR and the price on the ROFR letter was 15k, not 16k.


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## JIMinNC (Jul 19, 2019)

Shaun said:


> Are you sure that Marriott takes closing costs on his offer into their calculations?  I don't think that they do because when I've got my ROFR from Marriott it always says the contract price and doesn't add the closing costs that I'm paying into that contract price on the ROFR letter.  Take for instance my 2BR MOC annual OV that I'm in contract right now on.  I offered 15k and the closing costs were 1k.  When I got the ROFR letter from Marriott it said that they waived ROFR and the price on the ROFR letter was 15k, not 16k.



That's correct because Marriott does their own closings, and if the contract is written that BUYER pays closing, then they are absorbing closing anyway. The question on dagger1's deal is I'm not sure how they look at it if the SELLER is paying closing. If the let the deal go through and dagger1 gets the week, if closing is $1k, the seller would only net $6500 on a $7500 contract price. But if MVC exercises ROFR at $7500, do they give the seller $7500 or deduct something for their internal cost of closing? If they just give seller $7500, the seller is probably hoping they exercise ROFR.


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## csodjd (Jul 19, 2019)

Slightly off-topic, but I’ve been communicating with several brokers (3 of them so far) looking for an EOY-E MOC 2-BR, OV or OF. I am getting very different information, and they are telling me that their Redweek postings aren’t actually available. I am not finding everything they tell me to be believable or credible. For instance, Redweek shows a unit with a $12.5k asking price. The broker, after asking me to make an offer, told me it’s “no longer available.” But it’s still advertised. And he asked for an offer. I emailed with a different broker I’ve used before and asked if he had anything available and he said no, yet he has one being advertised on Redweek. 

It’s frustrating. It appears they are holding units and turning away buyers until someone offers full price.


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## Shaun (Jul 19, 2019)

JIMinNC said:


> That's correct because Marriott does their own closings, and if the contract is written that BUYER pays closing, then they are absorbing closing anyway. The question on dagger1's deal is I'm not sure how they look at it if the SELLER is paying closing. If the let the deal go through and dagger1 gets the week, if closing is $1k, the seller would only net $6500 on a $7500 contract price. But if MVC exercises ROFR at $7500, do they give the seller $7500 or deduct something for their internal cost of closing? If they just give seller $7500, the seller is probably hoping they exercise ROFR.


Ya, that would be great information to know. That would be a great deal for dagger1, I hope that he gets it.


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## JIMinNC (Jul 19, 2019)

csodjd said:


> Slightly off-topic, but I’ve been communicating with several brokers (3 of them so far) looking for an EOY-E MOC 2-BR, OV or OF. I am getting very different information, and they are telling me that their Redweek postings aren’t actually available. I am not finding everything they tell me to be believable or credible. For instance, Redweek shows a unit with a $12.5k asking price. The broker, after asking me to make an offer, told me it’s “no longer available.” But it’s still advertised. And he asked for an offer. I emailed with a different broker I’ve used before and asked if he had anything available and he said no, yet he has one being advertised on Redweek.
> 
> It’s frustrating. It appears they are holding units and turning away buyers until someone offers full price.



I'm not sure they are holding back units. It seems some brokers don't do a great job updating their Redweek listings. In at least one other case, there is a broker that seems to frequently list inventory he doesn't actually have, even on his own web site. I'm not sure why - sloppy administration or fishing for prospects. I experienced the same frustration when looking for our MOC week. When I found one, I wasn't really concerned about squeezing out the best price, I was more concerned about offering enough so it would pass ROFR. Didn't want to go back to square one.


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## Dean (Jul 19, 2019)

csodjd said:


> Slightly off-topic, but I’ve been communicating with several brokers (3 of them so far) looking for an EOY-E MOC 2-BR, OV or OF. I am getting very different information, and they are telling me that their Redweek postings aren’t actually available. I am not finding everything they tell me to be believable or credible. For instance, Redweek shows a unit with a $12.5k asking price. The broker, after asking me to make an offer, told me it’s “no longer available.” But it’s still advertised. And he asked for an offer. I emailed with a different broker I’ve used before and asked if he had anything available and he said no, yet he has one being advertised on Redweek.
> 
> It’s frustrating. It appears they are holding units and turning away buyers until someone offers full price.


They are likely using it as advertising since Redweeks charges for listings, they're likely just keeping them up to get contacts and since units come and go.


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## csodjd (Jul 20, 2019)

Dean said:


> They are likely using it as advertising since Redweeks charges for listings, they're likely just keeping them up to get contacts and since units come and go.


This afternoon I gave Samuel Rodriguez (Selling Timeshares, Inc.) prices I'd like to try and find either a 2-BR EOY OV ($8k) or 2-BR EOY OF ($10k) for, and asked that if he comes along anything at or near those prices to let me know. His response, "Those prices won't happen. Sorry." I thought that was a rather rude response. Apparently he's not an agent particularly interested in working with clients. 

Add: To be fair, when I called him out on it, he apologized for his response and agreed it did come off sounding rude and that he didn't intend it that way.


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## Shaun (Jul 20, 2019)

csodjd said:


> This afternoon I gave Samuel Rodriguez (Selling Timeshares, Inc.) prices I'd like to try and find either a 2-BR EOY OV ($8k) or 2-BR EOY OF ($10k) for, and asked that if he comes along anything at or near those prices to let me know. His response, "Those prices won't happen. Sorry." I thought that was a rather rude response. Apparently he's not an agent particularly interested in working with clients.
> 
> Add: To be fair, when I called him out on it, he apologized for his response and agreed it did come off sounding rude and that he didn't intend it that way.


That's interesting that he said "those prices won't happen".  I'm in contract for a 2BR EOY OV for 8k and it's already passed ROFR.  Those prices do happen but sometimes they take a while to find.  That's unfortunate that people try to discourage.  I'll keep my eye out for you too.


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## MOXJO7282 (Jul 20, 2019)

Shaun said:


> That's interesting that he said "those prices won't happen".  I'm in contract for a 2BR EOY OV for 8k and it's already passed ROFR.  Those prices do happen but sometimes they take a while to find.  That's unfortunate that people try to discourage.  I'll keep my eye out for you too.


Of course most of these brokers don't want to suggest lower prices are available. Some of the good ones like Syed you can give them a number and they will try to find you a deal. I do think a OF EOY at $10k is a low number but the OVs can definitely be had for round $8k.


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## csodjd (Jul 20, 2019)

MOXJO7282 said:


> Of course most of these brokers don't want to suggest lower prices are available. Some of the good ones like Syed you can give them a number and they will try to find you a deal. I do think a OF EOY at $10k is a low number but the OVs can definitely be had for round $8k.


If I’m a broker I’m not judging, I’m looking for clients. If I think it’s a low number I just tell the client, great, I’ll see what I can find and get back to you. Maybe throw in how much I appreciate their confidence in me. <g> Then I communicate anything that comes along, and if it’s over the $10k, you invite my “new” buying-client to make an offer. Just because I’m looking for $10k doesn’t mean I won’t spend $12 or $13. Over 20 years of use, that $2-3k is meaningless. I’ll spend that on Mai Tais. <g>


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## Dean (Jul 20, 2019)

csodjd said:


> If I’m a broker I’m not judging, I’m looking for clients. If I think it’s a low number I just tell the client, great, I’ll see what I can find and get back to you. Maybe throw in how much I appreciate their confidence in me. <g> Then I communicate anything that comes along, and if it’s over the $10k, you invite my “new” buying-client to make an offer. Just because I’m looking for $10k doesn’t mean I won’t spend $12 or $13. Over 20 years of use, that $2-3k is meaningless. I’ll spend that on Mai Tais. <g>


If I'm them I don't want to spin my wheels or try to bait and switch them later either thus I think there's a balance.  If a broker knows the market and the price target is truly too low, I'd rather they say so.  OTOH they might say that just to try to get me to buy something they have already or to make a larger commission so you have to look at both sides.  In your specific situation I think the numbers were not out of line so the broker likely did you a favor pushing you to a different broker/company.


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## CalGalTraveler (Jul 20, 2019)

I think it means two things:

1) He doesn't have any listings or leads for this property. If he did he would take it to the seller to get it sold and make a commission.
2) He doesn't want to waste his time on this deal. It's good you are not wasting each other's time and you are free to move onto another broker who is willing to expend the effort. Sometimes "no" is a blessing.


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## dagger1 (Jul 20, 2019)

JIMinNC said:


> Yes. EOYO at both places. 2BR IV at Waiohai and 2BR OV at MOC


Maybe one of these Odd years we will tie up. We will be in Maui using our 2019 HKB Sept/Oct (tied in with a 5 night Westin Ka’anapali $699 package) and then at Waiohai for our first stay the beginning of November.  Then 2021.....


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## JIMinNC (Jul 20, 2019)

dagger1 said:


> Maybe one of these Odd years we will tie up. We will be in Maui using our 2019 HKB Sept/Oct (tied in with a 5 night Westin Ka’anapali $699 package) and then at Waiohai for our first stay the beginning of November.  Then 2021.....



Maybe so. We've already used our 2019 MOC back in March and our first use year for Waiohai is 2021. Most likely we'll go in whale season again in 2021, but since we went in whale season this year and are using DC Points to go back to Maui in 2020 during whale season, who knows, maybe we'll mix it up in 2021.


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## csodjd (Jul 21, 2019)

Question: Can you buy an annual and then sell just the odd or the even and keep the other?


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## JIMinNC (Jul 21, 2019)

csodjd said:


> Question: Can you buy an annual and then sell just the odd or the even and keep the other?


No. Just like an odd and an even can’t be combined into one deed.


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## Dean (Jul 21, 2019)

csodjd said:


> Question: Can you buy an annual and then sell just the odd or the even and keep the other?


As noted, not but if you own bothyou can use them as if they're one and if you enroll them they only count as one total (1/2 each).  Other than the 2 closings and 2 transactions, there's no issues I can think of having two EOY vs one EY.  EOY options are popular at places that are difficult/expensive to travel to and/or have high fees like HI.  I own 2 islands as such, may or may not buy Maui at some point EOY even year.


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## csodjd (Jul 21, 2019)

JIMinNC said:


> No. Just like an odd and an even can’t be combined into one deed.


Okay, so then the work-around is a "partnership." Say I want an EOY-E, but only annual is available. If someone wanted an EOY-O, we could jointly buy the annual and have both our names on the deed, and enter into an agreement between us that I get even, you get odd, with a ROFR if someone wants out at some time. If I want out and you don't to buy my share, I can sell it to whomever and assign my interest in the agreement to the new person, and the new person must pay to amend the deed to remove my name and add his/hers. 

Seems that would work. Could even go a bit further and have a rental ROFR, so that if I wanted to rent my year I would have to first offer it to my "partner" at MF cost, and if my partner wasn't interested, only then could I list it for rental.


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## JIMinNC (Jul 21, 2019)

csodjd said:


> Okay, so then the work-around is a "partnership." Say I want an EOY-E, but only annual is available. If someone wanted an EOY-O, we could jointly buy the annual and have both our names on the deed, and enter into an agreement between us that I get even, you get odd, with a ROFR if someone wants out at some time. If I want out and you don't to buy my share, I can sell it to whomever and assign my interest in the agreement to the new person, and the new person must pay to amend the deed to remove my name and add his/hers.
> 
> Seems that would work. Could even go a bit further and have a rental ROFR, so that if I wanted to rent my year I would have to first offer it to my "partner" at MF cost, and if my partner wasn't interested, only then could I list it for rental.



Or you could just wait for an EOYE to come on the market. Given it’s getting late in 2019 already, unless you were eyeing a Nov/Dec 2020 trip, next practical use year for EOYE will be 2022. I bet a EOYE will show up by the end of 2020.


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## Dean (Jul 21, 2019)

csodjd said:


> Okay, so then the work-around is a "partnership." Say I want an EOY-E, but only annual is available. If someone wanted an EOY-O, we could jointly buy the annual and have both our names on the deed, and enter into an agreement between us that I get even, you get odd, with a ROFR if someone wants out at some time. If I want out and you don't to buy my share, I can sell it to whomever and assign my interest in the agreement to the new person, and the new person must pay to amend the deed to remove my name and add his/hers.
> 
> Seems that would work. Could even go a bit further and have a rental ROFR, so that if I wanted to rent my year I would have to first offer it to my "partner" at MF cost, and if my partner wasn't interested, only then could I list it for rental.


It would work as long as it works but as soon as something happened, it'd be a nightmare.  A partnership is the only ship that does not sail as they say.


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## csodjd (Jul 21, 2019)

Dean said:


> It would work as long as it works but as soon as something happened, it'd be a nightmare.  A partnership is the only ship that does not sail as they say.


Probably a lot easier to just buy an annual and rent it out when not being used. Shouldn't be that hard to rent a 2-BR for usage during the summer for more than the MF.


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## JIMinNC (Jul 21, 2019)

csodjd said:


> Probably a lot easier to just buy an annual and rent it out when not being used. Shouldn't be that hard to rent a 2-BR for usage during the summer for more than the MF.



Even easier probably in winter high season.


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## Shaun (Jul 22, 2019)

csodjd said:


> Okay, so then the work-around is a "partnership." Say I want an EOY-E, but only annual is available. If someone wanted an EOY-O, we could jointly buy the annual and have both our names on the deed, and enter into an agreement between us that I get even, you get odd, with a ROFR if someone wants out at some time. If I want out and you don't to buy my share, I can sell it to whomever and assign my interest in the agreement to the new person, and the new person must pay to amend the deed to remove my name and add his/hers.
> 
> Seems that would work. Could even go a bit further and have a rental ROFR, so that if I wanted to rent my year I would have to first offer it to my "partner" at MF cost, and if my partner wasn't interested, only then could I list it for rental.


I wouldn't get into a partnership on a timeshare. Maybe, just maybe, with close family. Other than that, I'd steer clear. Like was mentioned from a few people, I'd wait for an EOY or buy an annual if you can come up with the up front money and rent it in the year that you don't use it and it will more than give you a profit on the dues that year. It'll probably give you enough profit to pay $1,000 or $1,500 towards your dues in the year that you use it.


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## csodjd (Jul 22, 2019)

Shaun said:


> I wouldn't get into a partnership on a timeshare. Maybe, just maybe, with close family. Other than that, I'd steer clear. Like was mentioned from a few people, I'd wait for an EOY or buy an annual if you can come up with the up front money and rent it in the year that you don't use it and it will more than give you a profit on the dues that year. It'll probably give you enough profit to pay $1,000 or $1,500 towards your dues in the year that you use it.


That's the direction I'm moving in. It's not about the money, I can afford the upfront. Buying an annual OV in MOC's original buildings would add to the EOY-O OF I have in the new buildings such that on the Odd years I'd have two weeks. Could stay for a month.  Or choose one to rent and use the other.


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## Shaun (Jul 22, 2019)

csodjd said:


> That's the direction I'm moving in. It's not about the money, I can afford the upfront. Buying an annual OV in MOC's original buildings would add to the EOY-O OF I have in the new buildings such that on the Odd years I'd have two weeks. Could stay for a month.  Or choose one to rent and use the other.


I think that's a great idea.  That's what I'm doing, I have 3 units for the even years and 1 unit for the odd year.  I'm not going to be able to use them all at this time in my life but I'm hoping to in the future.  In the meantime I can rent out whatever I don't use and it'll pay for the dues plus give me a profit to help with the weeks that I do go.  Good luck!


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## JIMinNC (Jul 22, 2019)

csodjd said:


> That's the direction I'm moving in. It's not about the money, I can afford the upfront. Buying an annual OV in MOC's original buildings would add to the EOY-O OF I have in the new buildings such that on the Odd years I'd have two weeks. Could stay for a month.  Or choose one to rent and use the other.



Ever since we bought our EOY-Odd at MOC about 18-20 months ago, we've also been toying with what, if anything, we wanted to add. After our trip earlier this year, we came away thinking that going to Hawaii every year instead of every other year might be something to consider, but given the other places we want to go, we're not all the way "there" yet. So, what we decided was to add an EOY-Odd at Waiohai, which we did this spring. Now we have locked in every odd year one 2BR week on Kauai, a 2BR on Maui (that can be locked off if we don't need 2BR), plus HGVC points to use for the Big Island. That gives us 3 guaranteed weeks every odd year (four if we lock-off MOC and stay a week in a 1BR and a week in a studio). We are confident going to Hawaii EOY is something we're willing to basically lock ourselves into. 

We then used our DC points and HGVC points to book a week on Maui (1BR OV) and a week on the Big Island (1BR Kings Land) for a two-week even-year trip in 2020. That will give us a taste of going to Hawaii three straight years - 2019, 2020, 2021 - and help us decide if we're willing to lock ourselves into an every-year rotation, in which case we might add some even year or every-year weeks as you are contemplating. The other option would be to stay where we are with deeded odd-year weeks, but then add some more DC points that would give us enough points to have the option to use Points for Hawaii every even year, but wouldn't lock us into just Hawaii in case we decided to go somewhere else either in lieu of or in addition to Hawaii.


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## csodjd (Jul 22, 2019)

JIMinNC said:


> Ever since we bought our EOY-Odd at MOC about 18-20 months ago, we've also been toying with what, if anything, we wanted to add. After our trip earlier this year, we came away thinking that going to Hawaii every year instead of every other year might be something to consider, but given the other places we want to go, we're not all the way "there" yet. So, what we decided was to add an EOY-Odd at Waiohai, which we did this spring. Now we have locked in every odd year one 2BR week on Kauai, a 2BR on Maui (that can be locked off if we don't need 2BR), plus HGVC points to use for the Big Island. That gives us 3 guaranteed weeks every odd year (four if we lock-off MOC and stay a week in a 1BR and a week in a studio). We are confident going to Hawaii EOY is something we're willing to basically lock ourselves into.
> 
> We then used our DC points and HGVC points to book a week on Maui (1BR OV) and a week on the Big Island (1BR Kings Land) for a two-week even-year trip in 2020. That will give us a taste of going to Hawaii three straight years - 2019, 2020, 2021 - and help us decide if we're willing to lock ourselves into an every-year rotation, in which case we might add some even year or every-year weeks as you are contemplating. The other option would be to stay where we are with deeded odd-year weeks, but then add some more DC points that would give us enough points to have the option to use Points for Hawaii every even year, but wouldn't lock us into just Hawaii in case we decided to go somewhere else either in lieu of or in addition to Hawaii.


We've gone every year for about 6 straight and expect to continue to do so. Daughter getting married in Hana next May. Definitely going then. <g> Looking to change my business so I can stay in Hawaii for a month or two and just work from there. 24k HGVC points. Some 2-BR Maui rooms. We do have two weeks in Europe next fall (river cruise) scheduled. But Hawaii is/will be our main "second home."


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## JIMinNC (Jul 22, 2019)

csodjd said:


> We've gone every year for about 6 straight and expect to continue to do so. Daughter getting married in Hana next May. Definitely going then. <g> Looking to change my business so I can stay in Hawaii for a month or two and just work from there. 24k HGVC points. Some 2-BR Maui rooms. We do have two weeks in Europe next fall (river cruise) scheduled. But Hawaii is/will be our main "second home."



Sounds like a good plan!


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## dagger1 (Jul 30, 2019)

JIMinNC said:


> It will be interesting to see if that passes. With seller paying closing, it would seem that's a net to seller of only $6500 to $7000, depending on who does the closing. ROFR is unpredictable but that may be at a high risk of MVC taking it. If it passes it will be a GREAT deal for an EOY 2BR at MOC. Good luck!


Great news, Marriott waived ROFR.  We received closing docs/deed to be signed/notarized and just express mailed them back.  The seller will have to sign and then deed will be electronically recorded.  Hopefully by mid next week the transfer docs and new deed will be sent to MVC for transfer.  No actual hurry, though, since first usage is in 2021.


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## JIMinNC (Jul 30, 2019)

dagger1 said:


> Great news, Marriott waived ROFR.  We received closing docs/deed to be signed/notarized and just express mailed them back.  The seller will have to sign and then deed will be electronically recorded.  Hopefully by mid next week the transfer docs and new deed will be sent to MVC for transfer.  No actual hurry, though, since first usage is in 2021.



That's a great deal. Congrats! It seems like after a rash of Marriott exercises at some surprisingly high prices, now there have been a lot of waivers at lower prices that, earlier this year, would have enticed Marriott to exercise.

Be sure to enter on ROFR.net.


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## dagger1 (Jul 30, 2019)

JIMinNC said:


> That's a great deal. Congrats! It seems like after a rash of Marriott exercises at some surprisingly high prices, now there have been a lot of waivers at lower prices that, earlier this year, would have enticed Marriott to exercise.
> 
> Be sure to enter on ROFR.net.


Will enter it right now!


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## taffy19 (Jul 30, 2019)

dagger1 said:


> Great news, Marriott waived ROFR.  We received closing docs/deed to be signed/notarized and just express mailed them back.  The seller will have to sign and then deed will be electronically recorded.  Hopefully by mid next week the transfer docs and new deed will be sent to MVC for transfer.  No actual hurry, though, since first usage is in 2021.


Congratulations again and enjoy with your family for many years to come!


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## dagger1 (Jul 30, 2019)

taffy19 said:


> Congratulations again and enjoy with your family for many years to come!


Thanks!!


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## dagger1 (Aug 3, 2019)

Quick question.  Not urgent, because I will probably call MVC to see if there is an error on the estoppel.  All of our Marriott (Ko’Olina, Waiohai) estoppels show Seasons as being Platinum and floating weeks as being 1-50.  But our Maui Ocean Club estoppel shows Season as Platinum, but floating weeks as being 1-51.  Is MOC different, or is this a typo and should say 1-50?


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## JIMinNC (Aug 3, 2019)

dagger1 said:


> Quick question.  Not urgent, because I will probably call MVC to see if there is an error on the estoppel.  All of our Marriott (Ko’Olina, Waiohai) estoppels show Seasons as being Platinum and floating weeks as being 1-50.  But our Maui Ocean Club estoppel shows Season as Platinum, but floating weeks as being 1-51.  Is MOC different, or is this a typo and should say 1-50?


Yes, our Maui Ocean Club 2BR OV floats 1-51.


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## dagger1 (Aug 3, 2019)

I guess MOC gives us one extra week in Platinum season.  Thanks!


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## Dean (Aug 3, 2019)

dagger1 said:


> Quick question.  Not urgent, because I will probably call MVC to see if there is an error on the estoppel.  All of our Marriott (Ko’Olina, Waiohai) estoppels show Seasons as being Platinum and floating weeks as being 1-50.  But our Maui Ocean Club estoppel shows Season as Platinum, but floating weeks as being 1-51.  Is MOC different, or is this a typo and should say 1-50?


Actually I think Waiohai has some that are 1-51 & some that are 1-50 if I understand correctly.


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## JIMinNC (Aug 3, 2019)

Dean said:


> Actually I think Waiohai has some that are 1-51 & some that are 1-50 if I understand correctly.



Does MOC have the same? Ours is 1-51, but I notice on Steven Ting's maintenance fee/points spreadsheet that he lists Platinum 51 and Platinum 52 points for MOC Original. That makes me think there must be some 1-50 there as well?


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## Dean (Aug 3, 2019)

JIMinNC said:


> Does MOC have the same? Ours is 1-51, but I notice on Steven Ting's maintenance fee/points spreadsheet that he lists Platinum 51 and Platinum 52 points for MOC Original. That makes me think there must be some 1-50 there as well?


Others likely know better but as far as I know, Maui is only 1-51 where Waiohai buildings 1-3 are 1-51 & 4-8 are 1-50 though others likely no better than I.


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## Shaun (Aug 4, 2019)

dagger1 said:


> Quick question.  Not urgent, because I will probably call MVC to see if there is an error on the estoppel.  All of our Marriott (Ko’Olina, Waiohai) estoppels show Seasons as being Platinum and floating weeks as being 1-50.  But our Maui Ocean Club estoppel shows Season as Platinum, but floating weeks as being 1-51.  Is MOC different, or is this a typo and should say 1-50?


All of my MOC (3) say 1-51 so I'm pretty sure 1-51 for MOC is correct.


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## BocaBoy (Aug 4, 2019)

All of our units at MOC have always been 1-50, so there are definitely both kinds there.  We used to have two 1-50 units in the old towers and now have 1-50 in the new towers.  If it makes a difference, we had ocean view in the old towers and now have ocean front in the new towers.


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## JIMinNC (Aug 4, 2019)

BocaBoy said:


> All of our units at MOC have always been 1-50, so there are definitely both kinds there.  We used to have two 1-50 units in the old towers and now have 1-50 in the new towers.  If it makes a difference, we had ocean view in the old towers and now have ocean front in the new towers.



That makes sense or else Steven Ting wouldn't have week 51 point values on his spreadsheet for MOC original. It makes sense that there are some of both. Our OV is 1-51, so its not related to view.


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