# Starwood II Trade Test [Deposits under new rules show 50% fewer units!]



## DeniseM (Oct 7, 2009)

*Note - please don't copy and paste direct sightings info. from II here - sightings must go on the sightings board.  Please, just list the number of resorts you can see, and the number of weeks/units you can see.  You may list it by resort if you wish.* 

I would like to do a Starwood trade test.  First I'd like to see what we have deposited that we can use for a test.  Here is what I have, and a possible format:

Old rules deposit:
SDO
Lg. 1 bdm.
March 2010 week

New rules deposit:
(This is not actually deposited, but I am able to search with it now, and able to deposit the actual fixed week, because it's a fixed week.)
SVR - Falls
2 bdm.
Fixed week 16
Easter Week 2011

I'm proposing a trade test for all of Hawaii for the next 2 years:  Oct. 2009 - Oct. 2011, number of resorts and number of units.  It would be a good test  because it would include 3 Starwood timeshares.  Sorry if this is obvious, but you can search all of Hawaii at once, by choosing the map search function, and then selecting all of Hawaii.

As an example, with both deposits, right now I can see:

8 resorts, including the 3 Starwood resorts
24 weeks/units​


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## vacationtime1 (Oct 8, 2009)

Old rules deposit:
SDO 
March, 2010 (week 10)
small one bedroom

I see six resorts including the three Starwoods.  21 units altogether.


Old rules deposit:
SBP
June, 2010 (week 26)
small one bedroom

I see nine resorts including the three Starwoods.  25 units altogether.


Old rules deposit:
SBP
June, 2010 (week 26)
two bedroom

I see ten resorts including the three Starwoods.  25 units total.


Note:  DW and I have noticed that SBP sees more than SDO as of late.


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## SDKath (Oct 8, 2009)

New rules deposit
SVR Falls
Fixed week 52 - actually deposited
2 bdm.

10 resorts
25 weeks

I see 8 at WKORV, 5 at WPORV (including a 2BR for Jan 1-8th!) and 3 at WKORVN.  I see 9 other weeks from random resorts.

That's it!  It's with a Week 52 SVR FALLS on line deposited last month (so I guess by the new rules)?  Seems very weak.  25 units total.  

I see nothing but studios and 1br except the WPORV mentioned above.  SIGH.



Katherine


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## ginsun88 (Oct 8, 2009)

SBP new rules (used 2009 shell, but not actually deposited Gold Plus ST2  week):

7 resorts, 7 (non-Westin) + 17 (Westin) = 24 weeks
4 KAN studios
8 KAA (7 studios, 1 full 1BR)
5 WPV (1 2BR, 4 1BR)
small 1BR or large 1BR see the same weeks


old rules deposit (replacement week 39 SBP large 1BR, after II closed Starwood account and merged with Marriott account)
15 resorts, 17 (non-Westin) + 17 (Westin) = 34 weeks
4 KAN studios
8 KAA (7 studios, 1 full 1BR)
5 WPV (1 2BR, 4 1BR)


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## DeniseM (Oct 8, 2009)

please post total units/weeks seen - thanks!


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## lily28 (Oct 8, 2009)

Old Rule
SDO deposited 1 large bedroom week 51,2009
7 resorts, 24 units include 14 westin units in maui and princeville

New Rule
generic SDO 1 large bedroom SI 2
7 resorts, 19 units (see 4 fewer westin maui and  1 less westin princeville than above deposit

New Rule
generic 2 bedroom vistana resort cascade float 1-52 VI2
14 resorts, 26 units

Vistana 2 bedroom see more resorts than 1 bedroom SDO under new and old rule but see fewer westin units when compared to SDO deposited via old rule (4 less in maui and 1 less in westin princeville, mostly see only studio, rarely 1 bedroom)


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## DeniseM (Oct 8, 2009)

Wow!  Amazing what your SVR week sees!  I wonder why it sees so many more than my week or Kath's week, which are Easter and New Years?

Ah ha - I see 14/31 now too - there were more weeks deposited this evening!


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## Captron (Oct 8, 2009)

10/09 - 04/11 - as long as this deposit covers
SVV 2BR Wk 15 (old rules)

7 resorts
23 units (inc 2 2BR 1 at WPORV and one at Maui Schooner)


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## mlsmn (Oct 8, 2009)

Old rules deposit:
SDO
Lg. 1 bdm.
Christmas 2011week

34 resorts/ 15 of which are the 3 Westins

*2 bedrooms*
1 @ Westin Princeville
2 @ Maui Schooner Resort
1 @ Na Pali Kauai Club 
1 @ Maui Beach Vacation Club
2 @ Pono Kai
1 @ Cliffs Club


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## Twinkstarr (Oct 8, 2009)

Old Rules Deposit: 
Lakeside Terrace 2br week 10 2010

12 resorts, 36 units

Includes 15 *wood units.



Cindy and I have determined there is a different quality filter for LT and SBP, with LT's being higher. I can't see places like Maui Beach or Na Pali.

resorts I'm seeing

Marriott's Ko Olina
Marriott's Maui Ocean
Maui Schooner
Sands of Kahana
Westin Ka'anapali Ocean Resort
Westin Ka'anapali Ocean Resort North
Pono Kai
Pono Kai-Fantasty Timeshare
The Cliffs Club
Westin Princeville Ocaen Resort
The Kona Coast Interval Ownership
The Kona Coast Resort Phase II


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## WINSLOW (Oct 8, 2009)

Sheraton Vistana Resort Fountains II  (shell week not deposited)

New Rule
2 bedroom VI2 Gold Plus

I see 20 resorts total - 49 weeks including:

5 weeks - Westin Princeville Ocean Resort Jan 2010
8 weeks - Westin Ka'anapali Ocean Resort Villas Jan 2010
3 weeks - Westin Ka'anapali Ocean Resort North Oct 09 & Jan 2010

I'm seeing silver resorts & no star resorts along with gold resorts

Maui Schooner Resort 
The Whaler    
The Gardens at West Maui    
The Kona Coast Resort Interval Ownership    
Pono Kai    
The Kona Coast Resort Phase II    
Pono Kai-Pacific Fantasy Timesharing    
The Cliffs Club    
Na Pali Kauai Club Alii Kai II    
Sands of Kahana Vacation Club    
Kahana Beach Vacation Club    
Marriott's Maui Ocean Club    
Maui Beach Vacation Club    
Maui Banyan Vacation Club    
The Cliffs Resort    
Ke Nani Kai 
Marriott's Ko Olina


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## krj9999 (Oct 8, 2009)

New rules, standard 1BR SDO 2009 week (SI1 Platinum):

11 resorts, 35 weeks
Includes all 3 Westins and Marriott Maui and Ko Olina
8 2B units
All except for 2 Ko Olina units are before end of January 2010


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## Joshadelic (Oct 8, 2009)

These are all new rules with the weeks supposedly "assigned" to II.

SDO
small 1br
week 50 (true platinum)
code: SI1 - platinum plus

11 resorts
33 weeks


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## Joshadelic (Oct 8, 2009)

SVV 
2br L/O
week 9, floating platinum
code: SV3 - platinum

11 resorts
34 weeks

These weeks were available using both sides of the L/O, using only the small side or using only the larger side...it didn't matter.  I saw the exact same weeks all three ways.


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## Transit (Oct 8, 2009)

New rules SVV standard 2 bed
code: SV3 - platinum undeposited
11 resorts 34 units 10/9-10/11


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## rickandcindy23 (Oct 8, 2009)

18 resorts, 46 units with 2 bedroom SBP, deposited under the old rules.  The thing you need to know about SBP, it pulls the non-rated resorts, like Gardens at West Maui and others I don't see with SDO.  

11 resorts, 26 units with large 1 bed SDO, deposited under the old rules.

11 resorts, 26 units with small 1 bed SDO, deposited under the old rules.


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## Transit (Oct 8, 2009)

*Reminder* :If your counting units be sure to click the drop down box "see more units". I miss-counted the first time.


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## K2Quick (Oct 8, 2009)

Old Rules - Small One Bed SDO Week 12, 2010 - Deposited July 2009

# Resorts 18 / # Units 45


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## K2Quick (Oct 8, 2009)

rickandcindy23 said:


> 18 resorts, 46 units with 2 bedroom SBP, deposited under the old rules.  The thing you need to know about SBP, it pulls the non-rated resorts, like Gardens at West Maui and others I don't see with SDO.
> 
> 11 resorts, 26 units with large 1 bed SDO, deposited under the old rules.
> 
> 11 resorts, 26 units with small 1 bed SDO, deposited under the old rules.



Weird - my SDO pulled almost exactly like your SBP.


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## mitchandjeanette (Oct 8, 2009)

old way -- (my II account)
my deposit - 
Sheraton Vistana Resort - VIT 
Dec 19 2009 - Dec 26 2009
Week 51 
2 bedroom
17 Resorts found / 39 weeks


new way -- (SVN II Act)
Sheraton Vistana Villages - Platinum - SV3 
2009 (Float) 
2 bedrooms, Sleeps 6
8 Resorts found / 27  weeks

Westin Lagunamar Ocean Resort-Gold Plus - WL4 
2009 (Float) 
2 bedrooms, Sleeps 6
6 Resorts found / 17 weeks

Westin Lagunamar Ocean Resort-Gold Plus - WL4 
2009 (Float) 
1 bedroom, Sleeps 4
7 Resorts found / 20 weeks  

Westin Lagunamar Ocean Resort-Gold Plus - WL4 
2009 (Float) 
Efficiency, Sleeps 4
1 Resorts found / 1 week


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## Troopers (Oct 8, 2009)

Can someone explain how to do this test?


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## SDKath (Oct 8, 2009)

I am seeing more today than yesteday.  I think it helps to post what we see so here is mine...  I am counting 36 today....


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## aeroflygirl (Oct 8, 2009)

*SVO Trade Test*

I ran this at noon CDT 10/08/09.

New system
SDO small 1BR Gold Plus
8 resorts
27 weeks
Includes
2 WKORV North
8 WKORV
5 WPORV

New system
LT 2BR Gold Plus
8 resorts
19 weeks
Includes
2 WKORV North
4 WKORV
3 WPORV


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## DeniseM (Oct 8, 2009)

Folks - we can post numbers here, but sightings (listing the actual deposits that are available) have to go on the Sightings Board, so I am deleting that from your post.  

If you want to list the number of weeks/units you can see at each resort, that's OK, but not the exchange dates.


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## Transit (Oct 8, 2009)

DeniseM said:


> Folks - we can post numbers here, but sightings (listing the actual deposits that are available) have to go on the Sightings Board, so I am deleting that from your post.
> 
> If you want to list the number of weeks/units you can see at each resort, that's OK, but not the exchange dates.



Maybe the whole thread shoud go over to the sightings board.


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## DeniseM (Oct 8, 2009)

Troopers said:


> Can someone explain how to do this test?



Only if you give me credit for another positive thread!   

1)  Log onto your II Acct.
2)  Click on Exchange
3)  Click on "Use a map"
4)  Click on US, and then Hawaii, and then Select All, and then continue.
5)  For earliest date put in today's date (or tomorrow's)
6)  For latest date put in the latest date in Oct. 2011 that it will allow, & click continue.
7)  On the next page select the TS that you are going to search with - click on Vacation exchange.
8)  On the next page, you will see the number of resorts at the top, right corner - right under "all available destinations."
9)  You will have to scroll down and count the number of deposits, don't forget to click on the "see more dates" links, under some listings.

Then post your info. like this:

*Old/new rules deposit**
Resort name
Unit Size
Week deposited or Trading Value designation

Resorts - 15
Units - 30

You may also list the resort names and the number of units at each, if you wish.*​


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## SDKath (Oct 8, 2009)

Transit said:


> Maybe the whole thread shoud go over to the sightings board.



Yes that would be more useful.  For example, my search yesterday had less units than today.  It would be helpful to see exactly which units and how many people are seeing with theirs.  I don't think seeing "25 units vs 30" necessarily will give us a quality test.  At least not one I can make sense of.  Then again, I am new to these trade tests.

K


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## DeniseM (Oct 8, 2009)

This is just a trial run - to do a real trade test, we all have to search at the same time, on the same day.  So for now, we are just playing around with it.

My primary goal with this thread was to see if we have enough owners with deposits, to have sufficient data.  Looks like we do!


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## abdibile (Oct 8, 2009)

Vistana Resort undeposited fixed week 15/2010 

I own springs and falls, but no clue how to distinguish between them in II account, shows all my weeks as floating and I have to chose a reservation date. Before the changes they were shown as fixed in II

15 resorts, 30 units
including 3 Westin resorts, but no Marriott

When I change the reservation dates to week 2/2010 or 49/2009 or 26/2010

14 resorts, 29 units

So season seems not to be too important...


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## DeniseM (Oct 8, 2009)

Another Tugger has deposited her fixed SVR week and she was allowed to deposit the actual week, so you should search using the real dates of your fixed week.


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## Bill4728 (Oct 8, 2009)

Want to see something interesting?

I thought I'd see how many my Marriott NCV could see

5 resorts and 10 total weeks. 

Your Starwood weeks are killers compared to my Marriott.

*BUT* my Whistler week can see 14 resorts and 31 units (non Marriott,  non Starwood) 

Both can see only one starwood week for a checkin next week


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## Stefa (Oct 8, 2009)

Bill, My guess is your Marriott can see less because of II's quality filter.  My friend's Ko'Olina can also see less (not including Marriotts) than my small SDO because the lower-rated resorts don't show up when searching with Marriott.


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## WINSLOW (Oct 8, 2009)

Bill4728 said:


> Want to see something interesting?
> 
> I thought I'd see how many my Marriott NCV could see
> 
> ...





I don't want to turn this into a "Marriott sightings", but in my case with our VI2, we are seeing more units because I see Silver and non-rated resorts, whereas with our Marriotts all of those get filtered out and I only see Gold & some Silver and only one Westin for next week.  
Used MSK & MSU and only saw 5 resorts also.  I've always randomly tested with the Marriotts & Sheraton and the results are usually the same with Marriott having an edge over my Sheraton, but my Sheraton is in Orlando so it's not high demand like others in SVN, but still great for an Orlando unit.


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## stive1 (Oct 8, 2009)

Old system

SVR 1 bedroom week 13

15 resorts 31 weeks



Old system

SDO Large 1 Bedroom week 52

7 resorts 18 weeks


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## pacman (Oct 8, 2009)

new system
SDO 1 bdrm plat SI1 7pm PST

8 resorts
18 weeks

pacman


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## DeniseM (Oct 8, 2009)

Look at this folks - Pacman and I own the same type unit: 1 bdm., SDO unit - both deeded week 52 - although his is Plat and mine is floating.  In theory, his Plat week should be stronger. - it is designated SI1 - which is the highest trading value you can get under the new rules.

I just checked II, 6 minutes after Pacman, and look how much more I see with my old rules/March deposit., than he sees with his new rules, Plat deposit!   

Not a good indicator of "new rules" trading value.  

16 resorts
33 units


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## SDKath (Oct 8, 2009)

DeniseM said:


> Look at this folks - Pacman and I own the same type unit: 1 bdm., SDO unit - both deeded week 52 - although his is Plat and mine is floating.  In theory, his Plat week should be stronger....
> 
> I just checked II, 6 minutes after Pacman and look how much more I see with my old rules/March deposit., than he sees with his new rules, Plat deposit!
> 
> ...



Wow!  This is really interesting (and agree, not good at all)!  Can you PM pacman and make sure he did his search correctly (using the map and all of the islands...).  Also, based on the "new rules deposits" can we figure out what week pacman got deposited after all?  Or is it some generic week now?  I have a fixed SVR unit so for me, I deposited week 52 under the new rules and got week 52.  


Kath


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## DeniseM (Oct 8, 2009)

Pacman - not to question your searching ability, but did you use the search steps listed above?  Just want to confirm this rather shocking bit of info.!

Kath - they don't deposit weeks any more (unless, like your's, it's fixed.)  They assign your deposit a "trade value."  Pacman's Plat week was assigned the highest trade value you can get at SDO.


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## pacman (Oct 8, 2009)

DeniseM said:


> Pacman - not to question your searching ability, but did you use the search steps listed above?  Just want to confirm this rather shocking bit of info.!
> 
> Kath - they don't deposit weeks any more (unless, like your's, it's fixed.)  They assign your deposit a "trade value."  Pacman's Plat week was assigned the highest trade value you can get at SDO.



Just tried it again 7:50 PST 
now only 6 resorts
19 weeks

Yes, definitely the 2 years from today to Oct 7 , 2011.
This is with my A-side of the lockoff.
My B-side pulls 7 resorts and 17 weeks

This seems sorta strange.

pacman


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## SDKath (Oct 9, 2009)

I am seeing 14 resorts and 26 weeks tonight.  Only a couple at WKORVN now and none at the S property.  The same 5 WPORVs are picked up (1 is 2br, the rest are small units).


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## rickandcindy23 (Oct 9, 2009)

pacman said:


> Just tried it again 7:50 PST
> now only 6 resorts
> 19 weeks
> 
> ...



Are you seeing only high quality resorts?  When I search with one of my weeks, I cannot see anything that isn't gold or high silver.  For example, I won't see Hanalei Bay on Kauai, but I will see a few of the other resorts that are Silver, like Pono Kai.  I don't get it, but it just is.  

So which resorts are you seeing?  Are you seeing any "regular" resorts, and are you seeing the Westins?


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## SDKath (Oct 9, 2009)

rickandcindy23 said:


> Are you seeing only high quality resorts?  When I search with one of my weeks, I cannot see anything that isn't gold or high silver.  For example, I won't see Hanalei Bay on Kauai, but I will see a few of the other resorts that are Silver, like Pono Kai.  I don't get it, but it just is.
> 
> So which resorts are you seeing?  Are you seeing any "regular" resorts, and are you seeing the Westins?



We've all posted what we are seeing but Denise took them out. I think they are considered sightings.  I am seeing all 3 Westins (only 2 tonight).

Maybe we can do another trade test if there ever is another bulk banking at any of the HI Westins (other than studios, which seem to be appearing all the time)...

Katherine


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## DeniseM (Oct 9, 2009)

You can post the names of the resorts, and even how many units at each resort, you just can't cut and paste all the exchange info. - that is considered a sighting.


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## Politico (Oct 9, 2009)

*Bring back the old rules!*

Just ran this morning at 8am Eastern...

*Old rules deposit*
SDO
1BR
March 2010 Week deposited 

Resorts - 22
Units - 53


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## Troopers (Oct 9, 2009)

DeniseM said:


> Only if you give me credit for another positive thread!
> 
> 1)  Log onto your II Acct.
> 2)  Click on Exchange
> ...



Thanks.

How do I check old vs new rules?

At step 7, if I select Vacation Exchange for my unredeemed deposit (WKORV 1bdrm, Oct 11-18 2009), I get 13 resorts, 38 weeks/units.

At step 7, if I select Vacation Exchange for a 2 bdrm WKORV 2009 (float) and then select 2 bdrm when it prompts for master or lock-off, I get 13 resorts, 32 weeks/units.  Btw, I am given 6 units to choose from to exchange with; 2 bdrm, 0 bdrm, 1 bdrm (for my first WKORV week?) and 2 bdrm, 0 bdrm, 1 bdrm (for my second WKORV week?).  The site does not identify which units is OV and OFD.   Also, how do you know the trading value designation?


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## K2Quick (Oct 9, 2009)

Politico said:


> Just ran this morning at 8am Eastern...
> 
> *Old rules deposit*
> SDO
> ...



Mine is almost the same this morning:

*Old rules deposit*
SDO Small 1BR
Week 12 2010 Week deposited
Resorts - 22
Units - 56


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## Politico (Oct 9, 2009)

K2Quick said:


> Mine is almost the same this morning:
> 
> *Old rules deposit*
> SDO Small 1BR
> ...



Now we need a new rules comparison.


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## DeniseM (Oct 9, 2009)

Troopers said:


> Thanks.
> 
> How do I check old vs new rules?



If you actually deposited a week BEFORE the new rules took effect, then you have an old rules deposit.  

If you haven't deposited yet, or you deposited under the new rules, then you have a new rules deposit.



> At step 7, if I select Vacation Exchange for my unredeemed deposit (WKORV 1bdrm, Oct 11-18 2009), I get 13 resorts, 38 weeks/units.
> 
> At step 7, if I select Vacation Exchange for a 2 bdrm WKORV 2009 (float) and then select 2 bdrm when it prompts for master or lock-off, I get 13 resorts, 32 weeks/units.  Btw, I am given 6 units to choose from to exchange with; 2 bdrm, 0 bdrm, 1 bdrm (for my first WKORV week?) and 2 bdrm, 0 bdrm, 1 bdrm (for my second WKORV week?).  The site does not identify which units is OV and OFD.   Also, how do you know the trading value designation?



They don't differentiate between OV and OF on a deposit - Starwood is not going to give an exchanger an OF unit anyway, unless they have Elite status.  My guess is that you will get the same deposit value for both OV and OF.

The trading value is supposed to be listed in your II Acct.  YMMV


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## pacman (Oct 9, 2009)

rickandcindy23 said:


> Are you seeing only high quality resorts?  When I search with one of my weeks, I cannot see anything that isn't gold or high silver.  For example, I won't see Hanalei Bay on Kauai, but I will see a few of the other resorts that are Silver, like Pono Kai.  I don't get it, but it just is.
> 
> So which resorts are you seeing?  Are you seeing any "regular" resorts, and are you seeing the Westins?



with SDO large 1 bdrm plat week
Update Oct 9 5:50 pm PST - 8 resorts

Westin Princeville 5 weeks
Maui Schooner 4 weeks
Marriott Kauai Beach 1 week
Sands of Kahana 1 week
Pono Kai Pacific 1 week
WKORN 2 weeks
Marriott Ko Olina 3 weeks
Kona Coast 3 weeks

I know that yesterday, there were zero Marriotts, and about 4 or 5 WKORV.
pacman


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## jojo777 (Oct 9, 2009)

*Checking with SBP*

I just checked with SBP--new rules (Gold Plus)

I see exactly the same with my 1 bedroom and 2 bedroom units. 

7 resorts
16 units


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## GrayFal (Oct 9, 2009)

DeniseM said:


> Only if you give me credit for another positive thread!
> 
> 1)  Log onto your II Acct.
> 2)  Click on Exchange
> ...


Denise, I have NEVER searched like that using the map - didn't know u could!

Old Rules
SBP - STW designation
1BR shotgun (not large, not small!)
week 27 deposited

Resorts 9
Units 20

Resorts
Marriott's Maui Lahaina & Napili Villas    
Westin Princeville Ocean Resort     
Maui Schooner Resort 
Marriott's Kauai Beach Club     
 Sands of Kahana Vacation Club 
 Pono Kai-Pacific Fantasy Timesharing 
Westin Ka'anapali Ocean Resort North 
  Marriott's Ko Olina 
 The Kona Coast Resort Phase II


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## DeniseM (Oct 11, 2009)

Pacman (Gary) and I just did another trade test with our identical SDO Lg. 1 bdm. units -  mine is deeded week 52, and Gary's is deeded week 51.  (I deposited a March week under the old rules, he deposited his unit, under the new rules.)

Here are the details: All of Hawaii - next 2 years

Old Rules Deposit
SDO
Lg. 1 Bdm. 
Floating week - deeded week 52
March week deposited 

11 resorts & 23 units

Maui Schooner (Premier)
2 - 2 bdm.
2 - 1 bdm.

Kona Coast II (Premier)
3 - 1 bdm.

Pono Kai (Select)
1 - 1 bdm.

The Cliffs Club (Premier)
2 - 1 bdm.

Kahana Beach Vacation Club (Select)
2 - studios
1 - 1 bdm.

Maui Beach Vacation Club (Select) 
1 - 1 bdm.

The Gardens at West Maui 
1 - 1 bdm.

Maui Banyan
1 - studio

WPORV (Premier)
4 - 1 bdm.

WKORV-N (Premier)
2 - studios

RAVAC
1 - 1 bdm.

Total - 23 units


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## pacman (Oct 11, 2009)

Here's my direct comparison with Denise, at exactly the same time with the same unit: 5 resorts 13 weeks total

Maui Schooner (Premier)
2 2 bdrm
2 1 bdrm

Kona Coast Resort Phase II (Premier)
1 1 bdrm

Cliff''s Club (Premier)
2 1 bdrm

WPORV (Premier)
4 1 bdrm

WKOR-N (Premier)
2 studios


pacman


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## DeniseM (Oct 11, 2009)

Thanks Gary - let's try it again at 8 a.m. when hopefully, there will be more deposits.

*Everyone else - feel free to join us with your trade test if you can.  Please use the format above, but don't cut and paste sightings, please. (Kath - that means you!  :rofl

It's shocking that there could be nearly a 50% difference in trading power between the same week deposited under the old rules, and a week deposited under the new rules.  :annoyed: 

It appears that Gary's deposit can only see the Premier resorts, but why would we both see Kona Coast II - but he sees 1 unit and I see 3?  I don't understand why he can't see the Select resorts at least....very odd.

This is excellent data to include in letters to Starwood/II!


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## SDKath (Oct 11, 2009)

OMG this is disappointing!  How could this be?????

And why would losing power be good for Starwood?  I don't get why they are doing this!

Katherine


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## DeniseM (Oct 11, 2009)

New Rules
SVR - Falls 
2 bdm.
Fixed week 16 
2011 Easter Week (Because it's a fixed week - I can deposit this actual week)
Undeposited - but can search with week 16

I can see the exact same resorts/units with this week as I can with my old rules SDO week.


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## SDKath (Oct 11, 2009)

This is what I am seeing now with my fixed week 52 SVR Falls: (Deposited under the new rules)

The Kona Coast Resort Phase II 
KON    
Kailua Kona , HI , USA Resort Details & Photos    
3        


The Cliffs Club 
CLF    
Princeville , HI , USA Resort Details & Photos    
2         


Kahana Beach Vacation Club 
KAH    
Lahaina , HI , USA Resort Details & Photos    
3         


Maui Beach Vacation Club 
MBV    
Kihei , HI , USA Resort Details & Photos    
1          


Maui Schooner Resort 
LMB    
Kihei , HI , USA Resort Details & Photos    
3         


The Gardens at West Maui 
TGW     
Lahaina , HI , USA Resort Details & Photos    
1        


Maui Banyan Vacation Club 
MBN    
Kihei , HI , USA Resort Details & Photos    
1        


Westin Princeville Ocean Resort 
WPV    
Princeville , HI , USA Resort Details & Photos 
4   

Westin Ka'anapali Ocean Resort North 
KAN    
Lahaina , HI , USA Resort Details & Photos    
2       


R.A.V.C.@ Keauhou Kona Surf&Racquet Club 
KKS     
Kailua Kona , HI , USA Resort Details & Photos    
1


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## lily28 (Oct 12, 2009)

I also have a large 1 bedroom SDO float 1-52 deposited week 51 2009 under old rule in 6/09

sees only 5 resorts and 13 units total

Cliff 2 1-bd
Maui schoone 2 1-bd and 1 2-bd
wpor 4 1-bd
wkorn 2 studios
Kona 2 1-bd

Denise, I think your march deposit is much stronger trader than a week 51 deposit.  by not be able to deposit spring training/easter week, generic appears to be weaker and trades about the same as previously deposited christmas week

Another observation, both the 1 bedroom or 2 bedroom at sheraton vistana resort pull more resorts (9) and units (18) than my SDO.  In addition to above resort, they see kahana beach resort, maui beach resort, garden at west maui and RAVC at kona surf.


----------



## DeniseM (Oct 12, 2009)

Thanks for posting, Lily!


----------



## Carolyn (Oct 12, 2009)

9:20am

Old rules deposit
SDO *Small* 1BR
Week 11 2010 Week deposited
Resorts - 18
Units - 30

No Starwood!

Carolyn


----------



## thinze3 (Oct 12, 2009)

SDKath said:


> This is what I am seeing now with my fixed week 52 SVR Falls: (Deposited under the new rules)
> 
> The Kona Coast Resort Phase II
> KON
> ...



NOT A HIJACK but,
I cannot see ANY of the resorts in blue using either Waiohai 2BR, DSV 1BR or DSV 2BR, but multiple Sands of Kahana weeks come up on all my searches. Are these blue resorts "Premier"?


----------



## stevens397 (Oct 12, 2009)

OK you have me totally freaked out!

Did a test with my already deposited WMH.  The deposit week was Dec 26-Jan 2 of this year.  Deposited the 2 BR

Got 7 resorts of which NONE were Starwoods.  Most were 1 BR or Studios.  Total of 16 weeks offered.  Did a search for two friggin years!

Okay - what am I doing wrong?  How come SBP is pulling these things and I'm not?


----------



## Stefa (Oct 12, 2009)

stevens397 said:


> OK you have me totally freaked out!
> 
> Did a test with my already deposited WMH.  The deposit week was Dec 26-Jan 2 of this year.  Deposited the 2 BR
> 
> ...




There aren't any *wood deposites online right now.  

The reason you are seeing fewer resorts is because of II's quality filter.  Since your deposite is a top-quality resort (Westin) they don't show you some of the lower-rated resorts because they have determined you would either not desire or not be satisfied with a trade into one of these resorts.


----------



## Twinkstarr (Oct 12, 2009)

stevens397 said:


> OK you have me totally freaked out!
> 
> Did a test with my already deposited WMH.  The deposit week was Dec 26-Jan 2 of this year.  Deposited the 2 BR
> 
> ...



Don't worry my Lakeside Terrace week won't see the Kahana Beachs of the world either. 

To be honest there hasn't been much good HI inventory since this Spring in II and it was rather spotty compared to past years.


----------



## Twinkstarr (Oct 12, 2009)

thinze3 said:


> NOT A HIJACK but,
> I cannot see ANY of the resorts in blue using either Waiohai 2BR, DSV 1BR or DSV 2BR, but multiple Sands of Kahana weeks come up on all my searches. Are these blue resorts "Premier"?



I bet you could see them with that Christie Lodge unit of yours(if you still have it).

My LT can't see any of those resorts, yep I get Sands of Kahana and Maui Schooner units out the ying yang. Along with a few Marriott studios,maybe 1brs on Maui.


----------



## DeniseM (Oct 12, 2009)

*Old Rules Deposit 
SDO
Lg. 1 bdm. - deeded week 52
Week 10 deposited

18 resorts & 41 units*

No Starwood units this morning

Marriott's Maui Ocean Club 
1 - 1 bd 

Maui Schooner Resort 
3 - 1 bd
2 - 2 bd 

Na Pali Kauai Club Alii Kai II 
1 - 2 bd

Pono Kai 
1 - 1 bd
1 - 2 bd

The Cliffs Club 
3 - 1 bd
1 - 2 bd

Hono Koa Vacation Club 
3 - 2 bd.

Kahana Beach Vacation Club 
1 - 1 bd
4 - studio    

Maui Beach Vacation Club 
3 - 1 bd

The Gardens at West Maui 
1 - 1 bd 

Kahana Villa Vacation Club 
1 - 1 bd

Sands of Kahana Vacation Club 
3 - 1 bd
1 - 2 bd 

Marriott's Maui Lahaina & Napili Villas 
1 - studio

Maui Banyan Vacation Club 
1 - 2 bd

Pahio At Ka Eo Kai 
1 -  1 bd

The Cliffs Resort 
1 - 1 bd

The Kona Coast Resort Phase II 
3 - 1 bd 

The Kona Coast Resort Interval Ownership  
1 - 2 bd

R.A.V.C.@ Keauhou Kona Surf&Racquet Club 
1 - 1 bd


----------



## pacman (Oct 12, 2009)

And here is my SDO one bedroom plat - new rules

7 resorts 16 weeks

Marriotts Maui Ocean Club
1-1 bdrm

Maui Schooner
1-2 bdrm
3-1 bdrm

Cliff's Club
1-1 bdrm
3-1 bdrm

Sands of Kahana
1-2 bdrm
2-1 bdrm

Marriots Maui Lahaina & Napili Villa
1-studio

Kona Coast Resort Phase II
3-1 bdrm

Kona Coast Resort Interval Ownership
1-2bdrm

pacman


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## thinze3 (Oct 12, 2009)

Pacman
Based on those two searches, it looks to me that the "new rules" have done nothing more than tighten the quality filter. This second SDO search is similar to my Waiohai & DSV searches with the exception of Marriotts and Starwood resorts.

Twinkstar
You are correct. I see all those resorts with CL - 18 in total.


----------



## DeniseM (Oct 12, 2009)

thinze3 said:


> Pacman
> Based on those two searches, it looks to me that the "new rules" have done nothing more than tighten the quality filter. This second SDO search is similar to my Waiohai & DSV searches with the exception of Marriotts and Starwood resorts.
> 
> Twinkstar
> You are correct. I see all those resorts with CL - 18 in total.



True - but he can't even see the Select Resorts - some of which are very nice resorts, and a fair trade for SDO.  Since Starwood doesn't deposit holiday or high season weeks in II, I want to see ALL my other options - not half of them!


----------



## Twinkstarr (Oct 12, 2009)

DeniseM said:


> True - but he can't even see the Select Resorts - some of which are very nice resorts, and a fair trade for SDO.  Sionce Starwood doesn't deposit holiday or high season weeks in II, I want to see ALL my other options - not half of them!



Old or new rules, I've never been able to see any of those other Maui resorts with LT. Not even in flexchange.


----------



## DeniseM (Oct 12, 2009)

The trade test only has real meaning if you compare the same deposit under the old rules and under the new rules. That is why Pacman's trade test vs. mine is so interesting.

If you look at each resort, you will see that PacMan cannot see all the units either - for instance I see 2 - 2 bd. at Maui Schooner and PacMan only sees 1.  That makes no sense!


----------



## CeeWoo (Oct 12, 2009)

Sheraton Vistana Resort
2BEDSD
Gold Plus

Resorts - 15
Units - 32

Marriott Ko Olina
Sand of Kahana VC
Ke Noni Kai
Maui Beach Vacation Club
Kahana Beach VC
Na Pali Kauai Club Alii Kai II
The Cliffs Club
Hono Koa VC
Maui Schooner Resort
Gardens at West Maui
Kahana Villa VC
Pono Kai
Pahio At Ka Eo Kai
Kona Coast Resort Phase 2
RAVC @ Keauhoa Kona Surf & Racquet Club


----------



## rickandcindy23 (Oct 12, 2009)

DeniseM said:


> The trade test only has real meaning if you compare the same deposit under the old rules and under the new rules. That is why Pacman's trade test vs. mine is so interesting.
> 
> If you look at each resort, you will see that PacMan cannot see all the units either - for instance I see 2 - 2 bd. at Maui Schooner and PacMan only sees 1.  That makes no sense!



II is quirky.  I have seen many units, then suddenly, when I go back to see that particular resort's availability again, I see almost nothing.  

Under the old rules, my week 14 sees only the high quality resorts and will not pull the Kahana Beach, Gardens at West Maui, Kahana Villas, etc.  I don't know what the difference could be.  My SBP sees those resorts, and that deposit is also under the old rules.  

I don't know if using that shell week (non-deposited week that I see in my account) will pull anything good, since I only see 2009's shell, which is already deposited, so I don't know why 2010 isn't showing.


----------



## tomandrobin (Oct 12, 2009)

I am not sure this test trade thread is making sense. 

In the past, I always used my "shell" weeks to see what inventory was available on II at any given time. My "shell" weeks never pulled or showed to me the same inventory as actual real, deposited weeks. Also, the II inventory changes constantly. What I may see right now, may not be there in an hour or 5 minutes from now. 

Just my 2 cents.


----------



## DeniseM (Oct 12, 2009)

Tom - 

PacMan and I have done trade tests at the exact same time, with the exact same units- twice.  We are not using shell units - we are both using deposited weeks:

SDO, Lg. 1 bdm., 1-deeded week 51, 1-deeded week 52  

We prearranged to search at 7:30 last night, and 8 am this morning.

So this is a direct comparison of two identical units - one deposited under the old rules (mine) and one deposited under the new rules (his.)  

My week is a (high demand) March deposit - his is the new "Plat Valuation," which is the current highest value for SDO.  So we are comparing apples to apples - the highest SDO deposit, under both new rules and old rules.

Under the old rules, I can see twice as many resorts and units as he can - that's significant.


----------



## Fredm (Oct 12, 2009)

DeniseM said:


> The trade test only has real meaning if you compare the same deposit under the old rules and under the new rules. That is why Pacman's trade test vs. mine is so interesting.
> 
> If you look at each resort, you will see that PacMan cannot see all the units either - for instance I see 2 - 2 bd. at Maui Schooner and PacMan only sees 1.  That makes no sense!



Denise,

You are searching with a week 10. Way more clout than a week 51 at SDO. Week 10 is peak prime season in the desert.

Nonetheless, you are right. If trying to gauge old vs new system, you should be depositing the same thing.


----------



## DeniseM (Oct 12, 2009)

Fredm said:


> Denise,
> 
> You are searching with a week 10. Way more clout than a week 51 at SDO. Week 10 is peak prime season in the desert.
> 
> Nonetheless, you are right. If trying to gauge old vs new system, you should be depositing the same thing.



Fred - That is exactly the point:  We are comparing the highest old deposit, to the highest new deposit.  (Week 10 would get the same valuation under the new system as week 51 - it's the generic Plat valuation.)

PacMan can't deposit week  10 or 51 - he has to take their "valuation" and the value they gave his week 51 is the highest you can get for SDO under the new rules - BUT it exchanges significantly lower than my "best" deposit.  

Under the new depositing rules, the "best" deposit is far weaker than the "best"  deposit under the old rules.


----------



## Fredm (Oct 12, 2009)

DeniseM said:


> Fred - That is exactly the point:  We are comparing the highest old deposit, to the highest new deposit.  (Week 10 would get the same valuation under the new system as week 51 - it's the generic Plat valuation.)
> 
> PacMan can't deposit week  10 or 51 - he has to take their "valuation" and the value they gave his week 51 is the highest you can get for SDO under the new rules - BUT it exchanges significantly lower than my "best" deposit.
> 
> Under the new depositing rules, the "best" deposit is far weaker than the "best"  deposit under the old rules.



OK, got it.

The best of the best gets retained by Starwood. That's the bottom line.


----------



## Troopers (Oct 12, 2009)

DeniseM said:


> Tom -
> 
> PacMan and I have done trade tests at the exact same time, with the exact same units- twice.  We are not using shell units - we are both using deposited weeks:
> 
> ...



Could this be because SDO deposits are overstocked?  I'm not sure if that's true or not.  But it seems to me that's popular here.


----------



## DeniseM (Oct 12, 2009)

Troopers said:


> Could this be because SDO deposits are overstocked?  I'm not sure if that's true or not.  But it seems to me that's popular here.



NO - If that was true, my week wouldn't exchange any better than Pacmans.  

It is because under the new rules, Starwood/II are ASSIGNING a different trading value to the weeks deposited now.  

Under the old system I could choose and deposit a high season week of my choice and therefore get the highest trading value possible at SDO.  

Under the new rules, Starwood is assigning an average value for the whole season to all weeks in that season.  So they took ALL the weeks in Plat season, came up with an average value, and that is the best exchange value you can get now.


----------



## Troopers (Oct 12, 2009)

DeniseM said:


> *NO - If that was true, my week wouldn't exchange any better than Pacmans.*
> 
> It is because under the new rules, Starwood/II are ASSIGNING a different trading value to the weeks deposited now.
> 
> ...



But your week is already deposited where as Pacmans is not.

Exchange value is not only determined by the week deposited.  It is also determined by the supply and the demand.

You have already deposited your SDO week (old rule).  Your deposited week is one of many deposited SDO week available for exchange.  There is adequate (or excess) supply of SDO weeks (I just checked and there are dozens of weeks available).  Supply is high.

Now, here comes Pacman and performs a search with SDO (new rule).  The system knows that supply is already high, so it decreases its exchange value because the demand is not meeting the supply.

Perhaps we can do a test with WKORV?


----------



## rickandcindy23 (Oct 12, 2009)

Pacman did deposit his unit, Troopers. 

Denise has 20 weeks at high-quality resorts.

Pacman has 17 weeks (I counted and he has 17 listed).  

Pretty similar, if you ask me, but I realize these were done at the same time.  

The higher quality resorts only show up for me with SDO, but with Denise, there are more units because she is pulling more of the lesser-rated resorts, also with SDO.  I don't understand it.


----------



## Stefa (Oct 12, 2009)

Troopers said:


> But your week is already deposited where as Pacmans is not.
> 
> Exchange value is not only determined by the week deposited.  It is also determined by the supply and the demand.
> 
> ...



I just did a search and there is actually not much availability during platinum season at SDO which is what Pacman is searching with.  There are only a couple of large 1br which is what he deposited (if I am reading the posts correctly).


----------



## Troopers (Oct 12, 2009)

rickandcindy23 said:


> Pacman did deposit his unit, Troopers.
> 
> Denise has 20 weeks at high-quality resorts.
> 
> ...



Confusing!  Ok, I thought Pacman was searching with an undeposited week.  I guess the next question is when where the deposits made?  Pacman’s was recent.  Denise, when did you deposit your week?


----------



## Troopers (Oct 12, 2009)

Stefa said:


> I just did a search and there is actually not much availability during platinum season at SDO which is what Pacman is searching with.  There are only a couple of large 1br which is what he deposited (if I am reading the posts correctly).



I was able to see more than 20 platinum weeks with my deposited WKORV 1 bdrm.  Platinum weeks being weeks 1-21 and 50-52.


----------



## Stefa (Oct 12, 2009)

Troopers said:


> I was able to see more than 20 platinum weeks with my deposited WKORV 1 bdrm.  Platinum weeks being weeks 1-21 and 50-52.



I only searched through week 17.  Oops.

Either way, I don't see how it matters since Denise is using a March week and there were none of those online.  If Denise deposited her March week today (I know, Starwood no longer allows this) she would have better trading power because there is no supply for her week.


----------



## DeniseM (Oct 12, 2009)

Troopers said:


> Confusing!  Ok, I thought Pacman was searching with an undeposited week.  I guess the next question is when where the deposits made?  Pacman’s was recent.  Denise, when did you deposit your week?



Troopers - I think you are missing the whole point.  We DON'T want to compare weeks that were deposited at the same time - If Pacman and I deposited our weeks at the same time, there would be no comparison of old vs. new rules, because they both would have been deposited under the same rules.  We are trying to see how trading power has CHANGED, since the new depositing rules went into place.  

Pacman deposited a Plat week that gets the highest current valuation for an SDO Resort, under the *NEW* rules.

I deposited a March week which was considered to have the highest trade power, under the *OLD* rules.

Now we are comparing the two weeks, each with the highest trading power under their respective rules, to see how trading power has changed, since the rules changed.​
Checking the exchange power of WKORV is a mute point, because no one (that knows what they are doing) would exchange WKORV with II, so all you have is undeposited shell weeks to compare.  What you would need for a real comparison of old rules vs. new rules, would be an old rules WKORV deposit to compare to a new rules WKORV deposit, and you aren't going to find any....



> I was able to see more than 20 platinum weeks with my deposited WKORV 1 bdrm. Platinum weeks being weeks 1-21 and 50-52.



Yeah - but there isn't a single March week - what do you think Pacman's trading power would be if he was allowed to deposit a March week?  That is the whole point - I was able to deposit a week for which there was high demand - Pacman wasn't, and that is why my trading power is so much better...


----------



## Troopers (Oct 12, 2009)

DeniseM said:


> Troopers - I think you are missing the whole point.  We DON'T want to compare weeks that were deposited at the same time - If Pacman and I deposited our weeks at the same time, there would be no comparison of old vs. new rules, because they both would have been deposited under the same rules.  We are trying to see how trading power has CHANGED, since the new depositing rules went into place.
> 
> Pacman deposited a Plat week that gets the highest current valuation for an SDO Resort, under the *NEW* rules.
> 
> ...



No, I get it Denise.

If I wasn't already clear, I thought Pacman’s new rule search was based on a NON deposited week.  Thus, my thoughts in post #81.  My bad.

Doesn’t how far in advance one deposits affect trading power?  I believe it does that why I want to know how far in advance the deposits were made.  

When did you deposit your March week?  A year out?  9 months out?  Likewise for Pacman.   Pacman recently deposited but how far out?

Are there any other factors that we're ignoring?

I have an old rules WKORV deposit.  I also thought this thread was testing new rules, deposited or not.  It may not be as helpful but nevertheless, still helpful.


----------



## Troopers (Oct 12, 2009)

DeniseM said:


> Yeah - but there isn't a single March week - what do you think Pacman's trading power would be if he was allowed to deposit a March week?  That is the whole point - I was able to deposit a week for which there was high demand - Pacman wasn't, and that is why my trading power is so much better...



I don't know...that's what we're trying to figure out, right?  If he was able to, it looks like he would have more trading power...assuming all other factors are equal.


----------



## DeniseM (Oct 12, 2009)

Troopers said:


> When did you deposit your March week?  A year out?  9 months out?  Likewise for Pacman.   Pacman recently deposited but how far out?



Under the new rules, there is no early or late deposit - because there is no underlying reservation - they don't give you a real week to deposit - they just assign your week a trade value, so it no longer matters when you deposit under the new rules.  They don't deposit a real week for you, until after you make an exchange, and Starwood can pick any old week it chooses.

So, yes, I definitely did have an advantage under the old rules, because I was able to deposit at 12 mos.  out - and that is just another example of how the old rules gave the owners higher trading power.  Now owners just have to accept the trade valuation that Starwood gives them, they cannot influence the value of their deposit by depositing early, or depositing a high demand week.


----------



## Troopers (Oct 12, 2009)

DeniseM said:


> Under the new rules, there is no early or late deposit - because there is no underlying reservation - they don't give you a real week to deposit - they just assign your week a trade value, so it no longer matters when you deposit under the new rules.  They don't deposit a real week for you, until after you make an exchange, and Starwood can pick any old week it chooses.
> 
> So, yes, I definitely did have an advantage under the old rules, because I was able to deposit at 12 mos.  out - and that is just another example of how the old rules gave the owners higher trading power.  Now owners just have to accept the trade valuation that Starwood gives them, they cannot influence the value of their deposit by depositing early, or depositing a high demand week.



Are you sure about this?  Are you saying if one deposites a week (under the new rules) say 30 days before check-in it's the same as the week was deposited a year before check-in?  I thought trading power declines with time with a minimum of 60 days out.

I understand that all Starwood owners, not just SVN owners, have to accept the trade week/valuation that Starwood assigns but that doesn't mean that there aren't consequences in late deposits.


----------



## Troopers (Oct 12, 2009)

FWIW,

*Old rules (deposited week )

WKORV 1 bdrm (week 41, Oct 11-18, '09)*

4 resorts, 5 weeks
2 wks @ Maui Schooner Resort
1 wk @ Cliffs Club
1 wk @ Sands of Kahana Vacation Club
1 wk @ Kona Coast Resort Phase II

*New rules (undeposited week)

WKORV 1 bdrm (2009 float)*

3 Resorts, 4 Weeks
2 wks @ Maui Schooner Resort
1 wk @ Cliffs Club
1 wk @ Sands of Kahana Vacation Club

Oh, I only searched within Hawaii.


----------



## DeniseM (Oct 12, 2009)

Troopers said:


> Are you sure about this?  Are you saying if one deposites a week (under the new rules) say 30 days before check-in it's the same as the week was deposited a year before check-in?  I thought trading power declines with time with a minimum of 60 days out.



What do you mean by 30 days before check-in?  When you deposit now, there is no underlying reservation - so there is no check-in date.  All they do is assign your deposit a trade valuation.  We've been discussing this here for weeks - go back and read the threads on the new process for all the details.


----------



## Troopers (Oct 13, 2009)

DeniseM said:


> What do you mean by 30 days before check-in?  When you deposit now, there is no underlying reservation - so there is no check-in date.  All they do is assign your deposit a trade valuation.  We've been discussing this here for weeks - go back and read the threads on the new process for all the details.



Sigh...

Let's say one has a current home reservation at SDO for 2010 with a check-in date in the first week of March.  When would the owner receive the most trading power if deposited?  

A. Today
B. Feb 1, 2010
C. Nov 1, 2009
D. Jan 1, 2010
E.  All of the above because it doesn't matter since it would be under the new rules.

And yes, I do know that the actual reservation in March 2010 is not deposited.


----------



## DeniseM (Oct 13, 2009)

Troopers - You cannot deposit a week when you are holding a current reservation for that week.  You have to call and cancel your reservation before you can make a deposit.  So the correct answer is:

f.  none of the above

But to answer your underlying question, there is no reservation, there is no check-in date, so it doesn't matter when you deposit, under the new rules.  Still  

We've been discussing this here for weeks - go back and read the threads on the new process for all the details.


----------



## mkfisher (Oct 13, 2009)

Old rules
WKORV
Studio oceanview
deposited as week 1
resorts 8
units 19


----------



## thinze3 (Oct 13, 2009)

DeniseM said:


> .... Under the old rules, I can see twice as many resorts and units as he can - that's significant.




However, if Pacman were to put in a specific request for one of those lower quality weeks that he can not see (but you can), his trade would come through immediately.

It only makes sense that an averaged week deposited by Starwood will have less trading power than your personally chosen week 10. I think that's a given.

Having said that, there is virtually no way to truly compare the two without requesting very high demand units/weeks that do not show up as being available on II's daily inventory. These units on II's website are units that no one else has requested in ongoing searches - essentially lower demanded or last minute weeks.


----------



## Troopers (Oct 13, 2009)

DeniseM said:


> Troopers - You cannot deposit a week when you are holding a current reservation for that week.  You have to call and cancel your reservation before you can make a deposit.  So the correct answer is:
> 
> f.  none of the above
> 
> ...



We can agree to disagree.  

Doesn't one cancel the reservation while concurrently depositing the week?  The conversation might go like this..."Hi, I like to cancel my reservation and deposit my week".

I do not believe a person can cancel his home resort reservation the day before his scheduled check-in date and deposit the week without trading power penalties.


----------



## DeniseM (Oct 13, 2009)

Troopers - I feel like I'm dueling with an unarmed man, because you want to debate this issue without having all the facts, and apparently without reading all the info. about it that's already been posted. 

You can "believe" anything you want, but that doesn't change the facts.

I feel like I am repeating old info. over and over in this thread, and it's getting a little tedious.  Read the threads on this topic - the info. is all there.

Peace out!


----------



## Captron (Oct 13, 2009)

Troopers,

I think the key is that what ends up as a deposit from Starwood is NOT the week you just had on hold. Kind of like under the old bulk deposit model, the week that is actually deposited could be a week from the past that was deposited many months ago and who's date is already past.

My understanding of it is that the agreement between Starwood and II is that ALL weeks within a season will be assigned the same trading value regardless of what exact week it is, and when or how far ahead it is deposited. That part is between them and I have no idea how they will work it out, but from our perspective weeks we use to exchange in the system all have the same trading "value" for us to make an exchange.

I believe the week you cancel in your example is absorbed back into the "system" and is used in other ways, rented, or maybe internally assigned to a unit that was due for a maintenance week anyway, etc. The actual week has no relevance to you at that point and thus you are not penalized at all. You end up like a new depositor and are given a trade value like the previous transaction and cancellation never even occurred.

It seems odd to me too and I think it is one of the things that will nip Starwood in the butt about this new system. I think if enough people do this and they (Starwood or even II depending upon what their agreement is) have to "eat" enough weeks that it will cause another change. It seems to be one way for us who are "in the know" to work this new system in the mean time.

Does that make sense?


----------



## SDKath (Oct 13, 2009)

I think what they have done is created a nice big fat black box that Starwood can manipulate to their advantage and we have no way of "seeing."  When you deposit with the new rules, you have NO IDEA what they are giving II.  Their dummy week is totally in their control and you have no way to even check to see if you got the trading power you deserve!  In the meantime, they get your week and can rent it out or do whatever they choose.  This way, they can cherry pick weeks behind the scenes and we can't even complain about it because we don't know what they did.

The ONLY way to check up on them is to do these type of trade tests constantly.  And as you can see, already the "new system" has a HUGE disadvantage to the old system as far as trade power is concerned.

Katherine


----------



## Troopers (Oct 13, 2009)

Captron said:


> Troopers,
> 
> I think the key is that what ends up as a deposit from Starwood is NOT the week you just had on hold. Kind of like under the old bulk deposit model, the week that is actually deposited could be a week from the past that was deposited many months ago and who's date is already past.
> 
> ...



Thanks for response. 

The change basically imposes SVN (or club) rules to non SVN weeks.  For SVN weeks, I believe a deposit can be made no later than 60 days prior to check-in of the held reservation.  Why the 60 day restriction if the actual held week is NOT actually deposited?  Also, why the decrease in trading power as the deposit date closes in on the check-in date?  Keep in mind that for SVN weeks, Starwood assigns the deposited week, not the reserved week (which is identical to non SVN weeks now).

I agree the actual held week has no relevance (with respect to using that week) to the owners when the deposit is made.  But I think it has relevance with respect to the trading value assigned by I.I.  I.I.’s super secret complex polynomial equation to determine trading value has several input parameters.  These input parameters include resort, season, unit size, supply levels and advance notice.  Advance notice being the number of days one deposits the week with respect to the held week.

I just don’t believe II/Starwood is ignoring the last parameter with these new rules.

Who wants to be the guinea pig and deposit the day before the reservation check-in date?  Good luck with that one but rest assured, Denise will back you up.


----------



## tschwa2 (Oct 13, 2009)

Troopers said:


> Thanks for response.
> 
> The change basically imposes SVN (or club) rules to non SVN weeks.  For SVN weeks, I believe a deposit can be made no later than 60 days prior to check-in of the held reservation.  Why the 60 day restriction if the actual held week is NOT actually deposited?  Also, why the decrease in trading power as the deposit date closes in on the check-in date?  Keep in mind that for SVN weeks, Starwood assigns the deposited week, not the reserved week (which is identical to non SVN weeks now).
> 
> ...




I think the 60 day Starwood rule is to make the SVN reabsorbed week more usable for Starwood.  I get the impression that the generic placemarker in II will not be negatively affected in anyway by when you cancel your reservation-nor do I think being assigned a placemarker (and therefore lose your ability to make a home resort reservation) a year in advance will affect the trading power in a positive way.  Two people who have the same resort in the same starwood assigned season should be able to pull the exact same resorts regardless of when their placemarker was assigned.

If Starwood penalizes for canceling reservation with little or no notice, which you use in your example; it would not be by assigning you lower trading power.  But of course since there is no official written policy and procedure guide who knows.


----------



## DeniseM (Oct 13, 2009)

Troopers said:


> Thanks for response.
> 
> The change basically imposes SVN (or club) rules to non SVN weeks.  For SVN weeks, *I believe a deposit can be made no later than 60 days prior to check-in of the held reservation.*  Why the 60 day restriction if the actual held week is NOT actually deposited?



That's not correct, but the rules you are referring to *II rules*, not  Starwood rules.  These II depositing rules applies to all deposits of real weeks from all systems - not just Starwood.  

With II, you can deposit your reserved week up to 60 days prior to the reserved date with no penalty.  After that you *can* still deposit your reserved week, 59 to 14 days before check-in, but it becomes a flex-change deposit, that can only be used for exchanges within 60 days out.  I have deposit a SW week, at 2 weeks before check-in, myself.

This becomes a mute point under the new rules, because there is no underlying reserved week.

Please go back and read some of the posts on this topic in which TUG members called Starwood and II.  *SW/II have stated that you can even deposit your week the very last day of the year, with no penalty.*  That's about as last minute as you can get.


----------



## Troopers (Oct 13, 2009)

DeniseM said:


> That's not correct, but the rules you are referring to *II rules*, not  Starwood rules.  These II depositing rules applies to all deposits of real weeks from all systems - not just Starwood.



Yes, I know that.  I thought that was obvious as suggested by thread but thanks for clarifying.




> With II, you can deposit your reserved week up to 60 days prior to the reserved date with no penalty.  After that you *can* still deposit your reserved week, 59 to 14 days before check-in, but it becomes a flex-change deposit, that can only be used for exchanges within 60 days out.  I have deposit a SW week, at 2 weeks before check-in, myself.



For a SVN week, you don't get the trading power of the reserved week.




> This becomes a mute point under the new rules, because there is no underlying reserved week.



Not sold on this.  There's a clock parameter that comes into play.



> Please go back and read some of the posts on this topic in which TUG members called Starwood and II.  *SW/II have stated that you can even deposit your week the very last day of the year, with no penalty.*  That's about as last minute as you can get.



With no trading power penalty...:rofl: 

Look at this way...assume you will deposit your SDO 2011 week for exchange.  You can deposit the week as early as Jan 1, 2010 or as late as Dec 31, 2011.  Are both deposits equal?

You are promoting that the trading power is un-affected regardless of when the deposit is made.  You believe it's inconceivble, absolutely impossible that one does not lose trading power due to a last minute deposit...I completely disagree.


----------



## DeniseM (Oct 13, 2009)

Troopers said:


> Denise, we can agree to disagree.  To summarize, you think that it's inconceivble, absolutely impossible that one does not lose trading power due to a last minute deposit...I completely disagree.



I'm not "promoting" anything - I am basing my posts on the *responses we have received from Starwood and II* - so it's not a matter of "my opinion."   Several Tuggers have had extensive communications with II and Starwood and posted their findings here.  Right now, that's all we have to go on.  Anything else is pure speculation.


----------



## Troopers (Oct 13, 2009)

tschwa2 said:


> I get the impression that the generic placemarker in II will not be negatively affected in anyway by when you cancel your reservation-nor do I think being assigned a placemarker (and therefore lose your ability to make a home resort reservation) a year in advance will affect the trading power in a positive way.  Two people who have the same resort in the same starwood assigned season should be able to pull the exact same resorts regardless of when their placemarker was assigned.



Check out Timesharing 101 here on TUG.


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## Troopers (Oct 13, 2009)

DeniseM said:


> I'm not "promoting" anything - I am basing my posts on the *responses we have received from Starwood and II* - so it's not a matter of "my opinion."   Several Tuggers have had extensive communications with II and Starwood and posted their findings here.  Right now, that's all we have to go on.  Anything else is pure speculation.



C'mon Denise...

...your posts seems awfully strong based on the "facts" that I'm failing to read.

So what's your opinion?  Please take your wealth of knowledge and combine that with the "facts" and enlighten me.

Please answer my question from post #105.  Are both deposits equal?


----------



## DeniseM (Oct 13, 2009)

Troopers - I have done my best to answer your questions, based on what we know at this point, and clearly you just want to argue.  It's tiresome, and I don't have anything else to add.  Hopefully, someone else can answer your questions to your satisfaction.


----------



## tschwa2 (Oct 13, 2009)

Troopers said:


> Check out Timesharing 101 here on TUG.



why?  By there own admission Starwood has changed the old rules (timesharing 101) and according to their words are doing for the benefit of those who never read timesharing 101 and would call late to reserve a week late in the year and deposit it late.  They don't feel the need to publish the changes because they don't think most users will notice the difference. 

Thank you for contacting Sheraton Vacation Ownership. 

We sincerely apologize for any continued inconvenience or confusion this may be causing you.

Your Resort Assignment Code was created by II and will ensure that you receive the true trading power for your ownership week. This is beneficial to you since you will receive your true trading power for your ownership week regardless of when you request your assignment. With the old deposit first method, chances were high that you would receive a lesser season when you requested your deposit late in the year. You will also receive a confirmation from SVO that your week has been placed in a Request First Assignment with II. This confirmation was not provided by SVO with the old deposit first method. 

Your expiration date for your ownership week will always be on June 30 two years later, regardless of when you request your assignment. For example, if you elect to place your 2010 ownership week in an II Request First Assignment, you will have until June 30, 2012 to use this week through II. 

Please note that you will not see an actual week posted to your II account when you submit your request and you will be required to prepay your transaction fee to II to initiate your search. 

After your search criteria has been submitted to II, this will change your assignment status from "Request First Assignment" to "Request First Pending" in our systems. Your Request First Pending may still be canceled prior to the end of the assigned use year after verifying with II that your search has not been confirmed. This is done while you are speaking with an Owner Services agent through email, Live Chat on StarCentral, or over the telephone. 

When II confirms your request this will change the status of your week from Request First Pending to Request First Confirmed. Your II assignment cannot be canceled at this time. You will be required to use your week through II from this point forward should you elect to cancel your existing II reservation. 

At this time we will not be sending an official communication to our owners outlining the new process since we anticipate a seamless transition for our owners, although you will be reaping the benefits of the new methodology. We encourage you to contact Owner Services toll free at the telephone number listed below if you have additional inquiries about this new process. 




Robert D said:


> Deposits within 45 Days of Check-In / Late in Year
> 
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> I scanned this thread and didn't see this subject addressed but talked to a Starwood specialist at II today about any restrictions and trading power impact of depositing a week close to check in date or since there really isn't a specific check in date under the new system, late in the year. In other words, I asked if there would be any restrictions in depositing a 2009 week in November or December (previously such deposits would have flexchange restrictions and its trading power would be diminished) and he said that under the new system as long as you deposited your week before it expired at the close of business 12/31/09 that you would have the same trading power as if you deposited the week on January 1, 2009 and you would not be restricted to reserving a week during flexchange period (i.e. within 60 days of check in). He said that the trading power would be the average trading power of a week within your floating season. This applies to a floating week and not fixed weeks.



Again this is what has been said by Starwood but they haven't published anything.

Tracey


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## gmarine (Oct 13, 2009)

The usual stupid response by Starwood. Isnt it great to own a Starwood resort where they change the policy on deposits yet dont tell anyone about it?

Ask Starwood about the benefits of the new system. There certainly are new benefits. Problem is they benefit Starwood while screwing owners.

Oops, didnt mean to go off topic.


----------



## rickandcindy23 (Oct 13, 2009)

On a happy note, for all of those who are interested in renting their Sheraton Broadway Plantation weeks, there are lots of prime summer weeks left, including 4th of July.  This would be an easy rental.  Consider renting your Gold Plus week this year, and warn your renters to unplug the phones in their units, to avoid the salespeople.  

I don't care about making much of a profit, by the way.  This is my insurance that my fees are paid this year.  We own an EOY lockoff, and an annual 2 bed.  Both are reserved for July, consecutive weeks.  I just did it this morning!


----------



## Captron (Oct 14, 2009)

Troopers said:


> Thanks for response.
> 
> The change basically imposes SVN (or club) rules to non SVN weeks.  For SVN weeks, I believe a deposit can be made no later than 60 days prior to check-in of the held reservation.  Why the 60 day restriction if the actual held week is NOT actually deposited?  Also, why the decrease in trading power as the deposit date closes in on the check-in date?  Keep in mind that for SVN weeks, Starwood assigns the deposited week, not the reserved week (which is identical to non SVN weeks now).
> 
> I agree the actual held week has no relevance (with respect to using that week) to the owners when the deposit is made.  But I think it has relevance with respect to the trading value assigned by I.I.  I.I.’s super secret complex polynomial equation to determine trading value has several input parameters.  These input parameters include resort, season, unit size, supply levels and advance notice.  Advance notice being the number of days one deposits the week with respect to the held week.



Thanks for the reply. I think this whole contract with II and SVN makes the week irrelevant. Somehow in some dark back room it seems they are going to count chips and even the score. That part is irrelevant TO US. The trading power/value for us is averaged for the season. I am sure they somehow worked it out with II to give some better some lesser and mostly average to give us whatever value that is assigned. 

[my speculation is that Starwoods contract was back up for renewal and they twisted II's arm to get what they could after threatening to leave a la Disney - just a thought]

I have to agree with Denise (NOT picking sides) regarding the 60 day flex deposit rules being II's rules.

I hate polynomials as much as the next guy but the reason I think it is irrelevant altogether is demonstrated by this example. Within SVN previously you could actually call in July 200x and receive a II deposit that was actually for May 200x made in the January 200x bulk deposit (for example). [and effectively shortening your 2 year trading window by 2-3 mos. - but I digress] You are getting credit for a week already passed so how could when you call Starwood have ANY relevance to the trading power? Do we agree to there?

The same thing applies to the situation now (which I believe for non SVN is SLIGHTLY different than SVN IMHO). You have NO idea what week will or has been given to II for the credit value you receive. It could be past, present or future. (Again, I picture a dark back room off a creepy alley where they finally call everything even steven.) I believe the thing that matters to us is that what has been established is that all of the factors that effect trading power (I agree with your list btw... and probably more) have been wiped out from our perspective and that is how a last minute deposit will not be nailed on trading power or be restricted to a flex deposit (60 days or less).

I do know that a 2BR Fountains II SVN/club deposit I (me) made last year gave me a 2BR SVV "trading week" to use in II and that that week was part of a bulk deposit made before I picked up the phone. I believe we can just eliminate the 60 day thing from the equation for our discussion here as I understand that it ONLY would have applied to depositing a deeded week that you put into II personally and NOT to SVN deposits. In fact, I know of people who made a deposit <60 days from their deeded week and got a week totally different from a different resort without a flex change restriction.

Frankly I don't know and don't care how II and SVN are going to work out there end and have everybody walk away happy. What I care is that the trading value I receive will be the same if I call Starwood to get a "II credit value" (or whatever they are calling it) for my season 12 months ahead of my season or on the last day of my season. For all I know they will give them a week from next year (or be owed one from last year). That is how I believe what WE GET will be the same, regardless of all the factors you mention. It seems crazy, it possibly explains a little why SVN has made the changes to seasons etc on the SVN points chart in the last year or so. I DON'T want to know what the contract they have between them looks like (not that they would ever let me get even close).

It almost seems to me like II and SVN have set up a private little pool similar to the deposit pool you and I have previously deposited to and exchanged from and they will work it out in the long run. This is similar to how you or I could previously deposit one week and withdraw another WITHOUT making a direct exchange with the owner of the other week. It was an in and out pool (after the polynomials etc. were applied) and we paid for it and II made money off it.  We generally got something and they got $ so the arrangement continued. Whether this new situation will continue or not, we will see.

I am sorry I have been so long winded. I would be happy to clarify more or answer any other questions you have to the best of my knowledge and understanding. Since they have not published any rules or anything about all of this except email responses copied here and I am basing what I know from that and from peoples comments about telephone conversations. We all know how reliable info from the front line people can be don't we? I could be WAY OFF MARK with all of this. I would appreciate anyone else's input if they think I am in error...I probably am.

A lot of this is likely even based on CONSENSUS OPINION - right Jim????   (just pickin' on you buddy) but those are my two cents.


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## Pit (Oct 14, 2009)

rickandcindy23 said:


> On a happy note, for all of those who are interested in renting their Sheraton Broadway Plantation weeks, there are lots of prime summer weeks left, including 4th of July.  This would be an easy rental.  Consider renting your Gold Plus week this year, and warn your renters to unplug the phones in their units, to avoid the salespeople.
> 
> I don't care about making much of a profit, by the way.  This is my insurance that my fees are paid this year.  We own an EOY lockoff, and an annual 2 bed.  Both are reserved for July, consecutive weeks.  I just did it this morning!



Your right. With less competition for reservations, this new system makes it easier for owners to reserve and rent the prime weeks.  There are quite a few prime SDO weeks listed on redweek. 

II is no longer needed. Add the annual II fee and exchange fees to your rental income and use the cash to rent what you want. The bank is your new exchange co.


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## thinze3 (Oct 14, 2009)

Pit said:


> Your right. With less competition for reservations, this new system makes it easier for owners to reserve and rent the prime weeks.  There are quite a few prime SDO weeks listed on redweek.
> 
> II is no longer needed. Add the annual II fee and exchange fees to your rental income and use the cash to rent what you want. The bank is your new exchange co.



Wouldn't this also make reservations for prime locations during peak season using star options much easier? Of course, exchanges to those prime locations during peak season would be all but gone.


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## rickandcindy23 (Oct 15, 2009)

My email answer from II:

Thank you for your e-mail message. 

Let me assure you that Interval regrets that you are displeased with 
what you have learned about the new exchange procedures applicable for 
Starwood owners of floating weeks.  Interval and Starwood have 
implemented this new methodology, which is unique to neither Starwood 
nor Interval, with the goal of improving the exchange process for 
Starwood owners overall.   Our experience with this methodology 
demonstrates that participating owners generally secure exchange 
confirmations comparable in trading value to that of their underlying 
vacation interest. 

While we appreciate that you are not convinced, both Starwood and 
Interval believe that this change will benefit Starwood owners.   We 
respectfully ask that before you make the final determination that you 
no longer wish to work with Interval, you try the new exchange 
methodology. As we have in the past, we will continue to make every 
effort to ensure that the exchange confirmations offered to you are 
comparable to what you own.  

If you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact us.

Thank You,
Sandra
Customer Service


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## mlsmn (Oct 15, 2009)

got the same exact email 

wrote back 
=============================
 "which is unique to neither Starwood 
nor Interval, with the goal of improving the exchange process for 
Starwood owners overall."
*Question #1  Where,how and when has Interval used this system before?*
-----------------------------------
"both Starwood and 
Interval believe that this change will benefit Starwood owners.

We respectfully ask that before you make the final determination that you 
no longer wish to work with Interval, you try the new exchange 
methodology. As we have in the past, we will continue to make every 
effort to ensure that the exchange confirmations offered to you are 
comparable to what you own. "

*I just compared my 2009 week 52 deposit to the new week floating that showed up today
same results as others have found on trade tests on TUG(timeshare user Group)
greatly reduced availability for the new deposit.
Question #2 what should I wait for?   the results are pretty clear for 3 weeks now*


*Question #3 How does starwood or Interval dare to take away the week i want to deposit and give me a less valuable week
my contract says 1 -52 not a generic week

You are in violation of Arizona Law(I checked with Az Attorney general's office)

Answer those questions please*


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## K2Quick (Oct 15, 2009)

thinze3 said:


> Wouldn't this also make reservations for prime locations during peak season using star options much easier?



Absolutely.  That's exactly why I think they did it - Take prime weeks out of the pool from non-SVN owners to give to give StarOption exchanges to SVN members.  I honestly wouldn't have a problem with it if I were eligible to join SVN.


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## Pit (Oct 16, 2009)

thinze3 said:


> Wouldn't this also make reservations for prime locations during peak season using star options much easier? Of course, exchanges to those prime locations during peak season would be all but gone.



Sure, it makes it easier for non-owners to exchange in (via SVN), but reduces trade strength for owners wanting to exchange out (via II). That's whats wrong here. Non-owners benefit, while owners pay the price.

The only way to negate that is to reserve the best weeks and rent them out (or use RCI instead of II).


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## SDKath (Oct 16, 2009)

Actually I am getting to the point where I am finding renting an exact week I want from another owner is a heck of a lot easier and cheaper than owning a timeshare (and heaven forbid trying to exchange it with II).  

There is just nothing out there.  Nothing on II anymore.  Forget exchanging.  Just rent your week and use the money to rent the week you want from another owner who actually has that week reserved at the resort you want to go to.

Some of those WKORV rentals are cheaper than the MFs are nowadays!!!

Katherine


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## thinze3 (Oct 16, 2009)

Pit said:


> .... That's whats wrong here. *Non-owners benefit*, while owners pay the price. ...



HOW?

Non owners ... as in non-Starwood owners like me?
There will be no premium weeks for people like me to trade into.

Non owners ... as in non-SVN owners?
There will be no premium weeks for anyone to trade into. IMO these are the biggest losers in this transition.




P.S. - This has long been a complaint about Marriott as well. Reserve week 26 at Newport and/or Manor Club, or reserve week 11 at Mountainside, and then deposit that week with II - preventing Marriott's internal trading advantage to work amoungst all the owners promised great trades.


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## Pit (Oct 16, 2009)

thinze3 said:


> HOW?
> 
> Non owners ... as in non-Starwood owners like me?
> There will be no premium weeks for people like me to trade into.
> ...




Non-owners .... as in SVN exchangers. They are among the beneficiaries of this policy, while the resort owners (who pay for the place) take a hit in their trade strength, if they use II. This is screwed up.


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## gmarine (Oct 16, 2009)

Troopers said:


> C'mon Denise...
> 
> ...your posts seems awfully strong based on the "facts" that I'm failing to read.
> 
> ...



Denise is correct in what she has posted.
Based on my extensive conversations with Starwood management both deposits are equal. Every Starwood deposit of the same resort is equal, regardless of when it was deposited. There is actually no underlying reservation, just a generic week assignment of that resort, of which all are equal. You can deposit your week any day in the year of your usage and trading power remains the same.

If you still doubt what you are being told and what has been posted feel free to PM me and I will provide you contact info for a Starwood Director so you can confirm for yourself.


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## CeeWoo (Oct 16, 2009)

Thanks for posting this gmarine.  I've found info posted by Denise to be helpful and when she's been unsure of something she usually states that.  Some of the posts here have bordered on attacks at her and I don't think she deserves that - jmo 



gmarine said:


> Denise is correct in what she has posted.
> Based on my extensive converstations with Starwood management both deposits are equal. Every Starwood deposit of the same resort is equal, regardless of when it was deposited. There is actually no underlying reservation, just a generic week assignment of that resort, of which all are equal. You can deposit your week any day in the year of your usage and trading power remains the same.
> .


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## rickandcindy23 (Oct 16, 2009)

CeeWoo said:


> Thanks for posting this gmarine.  I've found info posted by Denise to be helpful and when she's been unsure of something she usually states that.  Some of the posts here have bordered on attacks at her and I don't think she deserves that - jmo



I agree completely.  I cannot believe that some posters are challenging what the rest of us are actually seeing with our deposited weeks.


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## rickandcindy23 (Oct 16, 2009)

On the same subject as the OT:
How many of you can see the Westins on Maui that were on Sightings today?  Starr posted some on Maui and Kauai, and I wonder if you can see what is there right now.  Can we post your answers under the postings Starr entered this morning?


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## DeniseM (Oct 16, 2009)

Here's a LINK to the Maui Sighting!


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## djyamyam (Oct 16, 2009)

gmarine said:


> You can deposit your week any day in the year of your usage and trading power remains the same.



George, I would just add that I was told if you have a reservation and wanted to deposit the week, you had up until 24 hours prior to the resevation to cancel and deposit (with no trade power impact/limitations the way there is with any other TS deposit).

So, it would make even more sense to book that highly demanded March or New Year's week and put it up for rent with less risk.  In the past, a person had to play "chicken" up until that 60 day mark and see if they wanted to deposit so as to not have a restricted deposit or continue their luck hoping it rented before the check-in date.  Now if it doesn't rent, I just cancel and rebook or deposit.  This would actually be worse for II because they could get nothing, no exchange fee revenue and Starwood gets a very last minute availability that they are now forced to try to rent out, literally the day before check-in AND they have to give II a generic deposit - a potential double whammy


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## DeniseM (Nov 2, 2009)

Pacman (Gary) and I did another SDO trade test tonight.   

Here are my results- 

Trade test - Hawaii Nov. 2009 - Nov. 2011
SDO - Lg. 1 bdm. deposited week 10 (old rules)

(I can see exactly the same weeks with my non-deposited fixed week 16 SVR week.)

8 resorts - 10 units


The Gardens at West Maui - 
1 4 4

The Kona Coast Resort Phase II - (Premiere)
1 4 4

Ke Nani Kai - 
2 6 6
1 4 4

The Cliffs Club - (Premiere)
1 4 4

Maui Banyan Vacation Club - (Select)
e 2 2

Pahio At Ka Eo Kai - 
e 2 2

The Kona Coast Resort Interval Ownership - (Select)
1 4 4

Marriott's Ko Olina (Premiere)
e 2 4
e 2 4


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## DeniseM (Nov 2, 2009)

This is my SDO Lg. 1 bdm. floating week 2009 "shell" (not deposited.)

4 resorts - 5 units

The Kona Coast Resort Phase II (Premiere)
1 4 4

The Cliffs Club (Premiere) 
1 4 4

The Kona Coast Resort Interval Ownership (Premiere) 
1 4 4

Marriott's Ko Olina (Premiere) 
e 2 4
e 2 4


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## pacman (Nov 2, 2009)

Here's my comparison with Denise.
with my one bedroom (large side) SDO platinum week
new rules

4 resorts 5 weeks total

Kona Coast Resort Phase II
1 - 1bdrm

Cliffs Club
1 - 1 bdrm

Kona Coast Resort Interval Ownership
1 - 1 bdrm

Marriott Ko Olina
2 - studios

pacman


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## DeniseM (Nov 2, 2009)

So Gary, it looks like my nondeposited floating week and your deposited Plat week can see exactly the same units, even though your Plat week has a higher trading designation than my floating week.  

Neither one of them see the same number of units as my old deposit, but they do seem to both see all the same Premier resorts.

I don't understand why my nondeposited fixed SVR week can see the Select units and my nondeposited floating SDO week cannot....weird....

That's good to know, because now I can compare my new rules 2009 week, to my old rules 2010 week, and do trade tests with myself!  

Thanks Gary!


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## mitchandjeanette (Nov 12, 2009)

2009 Deposited SVR Lakes 2 bdrm vs. 2010 "Assigned" SVR Lakes 2 bdrm 
to KAA 04/01/10 to 06/30/10

2010 Assigned unit pulled 
17 total units
6   Studio
11 One bedroom

2009 Deposited unit pulled
25 total units
6   Studio
13 One bedroom
6   Two bedroom


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## DeniseM (Nov 12, 2009)

mitchandjeanette said:


> 2009 Deposited SVR Lakes 2 bdrm vs. 2010 "Assigned" SVR Lakes 2 bdrm
> to KAA 04/01/10 to 06/30/10
> 
> 2010 Assigned unit pulled
> ...



WOW!  That is a significant difference!  

Is this a *fixed* week or floating?


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## mitchandjeanette (Nov 12, 2009)

DeniseM said:


> WOW!  That is a significant difference!
> 
> Is this a *fixed* week or floating?



home season      =   prime
ownership type   =   annual float
non SVN unit


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## jerseygirl (Nov 12, 2009)

M&J --

Which week was deposited for 2009?

Is the week part of SVN?

Thanks,
Jerseygirl

Oops -- just saw your post above that the week is not in SVN.


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## jerseygirl (Nov 12, 2009)

I would print the proof of these differences (to show harm) and file an official complaint, using this form:

http://www.myfloridalicense.com/DBPR/lsc/documents/complaint_english.pdf

Join those of us who are attempting to make Starwood prove they had the legal authority to change the rules for non-SVN owners.  Several of us have asked for documentation that they had the legal right to do this (via Deeds, CCRs, amendments to same) and they have so far failed to provide it.

Don't just sit back and take it ... that's what they're counting on.


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## Fredm (Nov 12, 2009)

DeniseM said:


> WOW!  That is a significant difference!
> 
> Is this a *fixed* week or floating?



Denise,

the 2009 week was deposited.
the 2010 week was not.


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## DeniseM (Nov 12, 2009)

mitchandjeanette said:


> home season      =   prime
> ownership type   =   annual float
> non SVN unit



Was the 2009 week deposited before or after the rules changed in August?  Since 2009 is nearly over, I assumed that you deposited it under the old rules?


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## DeniseM (Nov 12, 2009)

Fredm said:


> Denise,
> 
> the 2009 week was deposited.
> the 2010 week was not.



Yes - but was the 2009 week deposited under the OLD RULES or the new rules? - that is the real distinction.

BTW- With my undeposited week, I can see the same exchanges as an owner who deposited under the new rules.  We have done several trade tests, so I don't think there is the same trading power difference between _deposited_ and _undeposited_ weeks, under the new rules.


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## mitchandjeanette (Nov 13, 2009)

DeniseM said:


> Was the 2009 week deposited before or after the rules changed in August?  Since 2009 is nearly over, I assumed that you deposited it under the old rules?



Your assumption was correct, it was deposited under the old rules.


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## DeniseM (Nov 13, 2009)

mitchandjeanette said:


> Your assumption was correct, it was deposited under the old rules.



So this is the clear difference between the value of an "old rules" deposit and a "new rules" deposit.


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## Ken555 (Nov 13, 2009)

DeniseM said:


> BTW- With my undeposited week, I can see the same exchanges as an owner who deposited under the new rules.  We have done several trade tests, so I don't think there is the same trading power difference between _deposited_ and _undeposited_ weeks, under the new rules.



I posted a test I did this week elsewhere on TUG (http://tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=109954), where my undeposited week does not pull the same weeks as a generic week listed in my SVN account. Neither are "deposited" yet are showing different results. For example:



> Okay... so I just tested again. Using my private II account, my SVR/Falls week 20 for 2011 sees lots of weeks, but absolutely no 2-bed units. The same is true for my SVR/Falls week 49 2010.
> 
> Now it seems my SVN/II account has changed, and now I also see the placeholder weeks (even though I have fixed SVR weeks...). Using these for test trades with WPV, for 2011 I see *NO* 2-bed units. Crazily, the same search using the 2010 fictitious week *DOES* see 2-bed units. I tried this several times, and it makes no sense. The further out the week is the stronger the trade should be, but this search is the opposite. The 2010 week is pulling many more (and the 2-bed units) while the 2011 week doesn't look good at all. I even tried changing the week (you can select which you'd like to use, though I have no idea if that makes any difference).
> 
> The good news is that the bulk deposits continue. The bad news is that it's not consistent at all.


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## DeniseM (Nov 13, 2009)

Ken - I did a trade test with Pacman, and my _undeposited_ SDO 2009 week trades the same as his new rules _deposited_ SDO 2009 week - so maybe the results vary from resort to resort, too?


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## K2Quick (Nov 17, 2009)

Anybody want to join in on this sighting test?:

http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=110489

I see a whole bunch of good stuff with my old rules SDO deposit at WKV, but l2trade tried with a new rules deposit and doesn't even see summer weeks.


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## Stefa (Nov 17, 2009)

K2Quick said:


> Anybody want to join in on this sighting test?:
> 
> http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=110489
> 
> I see a whole bunch of good stuff with my old rules SDO deposit at WKV, but l2trade tried with a new rules deposit and doesn't even see summer weeks.



It looks like l2trade was able to see WKV with a new search.  It may have just been a hickup with II.


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## K2Quick (Nov 17, 2009)

Stefa said:


> It looks like l2trade was able to see WKV with a new search.  It may have just been a hickup with II.



Poor reading compreshension on my part.  I read exactly the opposite of what l2trade wrote.


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## grgs (Dec 5, 2009)

djyamyam said:


> George, I would just add that I was told if you have a reservation and wanted to deposit the week, you had up until 24 hours prior to the resevation to cancel and deposit (with no trade power impact/limitations the way there is with any other TS deposit).



Has this been confirmed by others?  I have a New Years' week reservation that I may not be be able to use or rent.  If it's the case that I can wait until the last minute to decide whether or not to deposit, this would be good to know.  Also, I'll have a "new rules" deposit to test out.  

Glorian


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## DeniseM (Dec 5, 2009)

grgs said:


> Has this been confirmed by others?  I have a New Years' week reservation that I may not be be able to use or rent.  If it's the case that I can wait until the last minute to decide whether or not to deposit, this would be good to know.  Also, I'll have a "new rules" deposit to test out.
> 
> Glorian



Yes, and you have until the last day of the year to deposit it with no penalty.


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## rickandcindy23 (Dec 6, 2009)

How has RCI been handling deposits?  Are they also allowing Starwood to choose the week, and we get so-so trading power?

I have two July weeks reserved at SBP and hope to get a great exchange to Hawaii or DVC with one of them, possibly.


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## jerseygirl (Dec 6, 2009)

Cindy -- others have posted that they're not being permitted to deposit their booked weeks with RCI.  I'm sending you a private message.


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## DeniseM (Dec 6, 2009)

rickandcindy23 said:


> How has RCI been handling deposits?  Are they also allowing Starwood to choose the week, and we get so-so trading power?
> 
> I have two July weeks reserved at SBP and hope to get a great exchange to Hawaii or DVC with one of them, possibly.



Cindy - If you use the standard procedure to deposit with RCI, they are probably going to insist on using the "new methodology."  Gmarine and a few others have been successful in avoiding this by taking it higher up the food chain at Starwood.  You might want to pm him for all the details.


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## grgs (Dec 6, 2009)

DeniseM said:


> Yes, and you have until the last day of the year to deposit it with no penalty.



Thanks--that's one small gain, then.

Glorian


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