# A few notes from Ko Olina Owner’s Update [6 Towers?]



## Southdown13 (Jan 4, 2013)

We were surprised to hear that they plan to add three more buildings at the Marriott Ko Olina Beach Club property. If completed, there will be a total of 6 buildings instead of the originally planned 4 buildings. Our sales executive told us two buildings were to be added, but his sales team leader came in later and said there were three planned. They didn’t know when construction will start.

The Asia Pacific points system will merge with the DC points program within approximately 18 months.

The sales executive told us the above info was recently released internally to the sales staff, but there have not been any corporate announcements to the public about this information.

We heard the usual “buy points to access the Trust” during the presentation, and his final discounted offer to us was 1,000 points for $9.56/pt.

We are enjoying our week here as usual, and for New Year’s Eve they had a fantastic fireworks show at all four lagoons for the second year in a row. We hope it doesn’t get too crowded with the additional buildings!

My daughter took a few pictures from the 9th floor balcony in the Naia building:


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## Aviator621 (Jan 4, 2013)

Call me skeptical; the only way they could pull that off is by buying the lot to the north, and I can't see how they could manage that without SOMETHING leaking out. As a side note, this is the same sales staff that assured me that a MVC at the Waikiki Marriott was 'just around the corner.'  Great pics, by the way.


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## dioxide45 (Jan 5, 2013)

I too would be very skeptical about more buildings than in the original plan. MVCI has too many unfinished projects to be building out other more than initial plan.


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## FractionalTraveler (Jan 5, 2013)

There is no mention of these new projects or capital outlays in the shareholder quarterly updates.  Salesmanship at its best.


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## dualrated2 (Jan 5, 2013)

Three months ago they weren't even sure when they would start construction of the fourth tower.


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## BocaBoy (Jan 5, 2013)

Aviator621 said:


> Call me skeptical; the only way they could pull that off is by buying the lot to the north, and I can't see how they could manage that without SOMETHING leaking out. As a side note, this is the same sales staff that assured me that a MVC at the Waikiki Marriott was 'just around the corner.'  Great pics, by the way.



I agree that there is little likelihood of Ko Olina expanding beyond the four buildings in the approved development plan.  In addition to the reasons mentioned, such an expansion would also require changes to all the deeds at the resort and that would be hard. We own an EOY there and our deed gives us a 1/78,000 interest in all the common elements.  With more than 750 units that fraction would have to change and I am not sure that could be done legally.    

However, they were not lying a few years ago about the Waikiki project.  MVCI had acquired the property just across the street from Marriott's Waikiki Beach Resort where the church parking lot is.  (Or perhaps it was an option to buy.)  Construction was planned, but the financial crisis hit before plans were finalized and then the project was ultimately abandoned.  Not sure if they still own the church property or not.


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## dougp26364 (Jan 5, 2013)

BocaBoy said:


> I agree that there is little likelihood of Ko Olina expanding beyond the four buildings in the approved development plan.  In addition to the reasons mentioned, such an expansion would also require changes to all the deeds at the resort and that would be hard. We own an EOY there and our deed gives us a 1/78,000 interest in all the common elements.  With more than 750 units that fraction would have to change and I am not sure that could be done legally.
> 
> However, they were not lying a few years ago about the Waikiki project.  MVCI had acquired the property just across the street from Marriott's Waikiki Beach Resort where the church parking lot is.  (Or perhaps it was an option to buy.)  Construction was planned, but the financial crisis hit before plans were finalized and then the project was ultimately abandoned.  Not sure if they still own the church property or not.




I think all they have to do is make the addition a seperate entity. Something like Manor Club Sequel. This set up may exist in other locations and might explain why one resort has more than one designation with I.I., even though it appears to be the same resort.


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## BocaBoy (Jan 6, 2013)

dougp26364 said:


> I think all they have to do is make the addition a seperate entity. Something like Manor Club Sequel. This set up may exist in other locations and might explain why one resort has more than one designation with I.I., even though it appears to be the same resort.



Not really, unless the two entities do not share common elements.  The Ko Olina deeds are different than the deeds of the other resorts we have owned in that they are the only ones that specify an exact fraction of the entire project for each deeded week.


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## csalter2 (Jan 6, 2013)

*Who Knows?*

On our Facebook Marriott Ko Olina site this was discussed. Marriott salesmen as usual gave conflicting stories. One person heard from her salesman that there will be no additional towers, and the other.salesman there said that there would be a 5th and. 6th building.


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## Aviator621 (Jan 6, 2013)

BocaBoy said:


> However, they were not lying a few years ago about the Waikiki project.  MVCI had acquired the property just across the street from Marriott's Waikiki Beach Resort where the church parking lot is.  (Or perhaps it was an option to buy.)  Construction was planned, but the financial crisis hit before plans were finalized and then the project was ultimately abandoned.  Not sure if they still own the church property or not.



Thanks BocaBoy, that's an interesting nugget of information. I would love for them to actually go through with this; it would be nice to pair with a week at Ko Olina. 

Csalter, which Facebook page is that? The corporate one or is there another page worth checking out?


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## dougp26364 (Jan 6, 2013)

BocaBoy said:


> Not really, unless the two entities do not share common elements.  The Ko Olina deeds are different than the deeds of the other resorts we have owned in that they are the only ones that specify an exact fraction of the entire project for each deeded week.



I was wondering about that. I didn't remember any of my deeds saying anything other than a 1/52 ownership interest, but then again, I never really read through everything in great detail.


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## dougp26364 (Jan 6, 2013)

csalter2 said:


> On our Facebook Marriott Ko Olina site this was discussed. Marriott salesmen as usual gave conflicting stories. One person heard from her salesman that there will be no additional towers, and the other.salesman there said that there would be a 5th and. 6th building.



Conflicting stories from salesmen? Say it isn't so :hysterical: 

The one thing I've learned over the years is that a timeshare salesman will likely tell you whatever they think you want to hear in order to close a sale. I was even told on our last update there would be _no maintenance fee's_. when I asked if there would be no maintenance fee's _ever_. He just repeated the line, _no maintenance fee's_. What he probably meant was that my first usage year would be set up for 2014 and there wouldn't be any MF's for the year 2013.  At any rate, I didn't take it any further as I knew he was trying to mislead me into believing something that I knew wasn't accurate.


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## gblotter (Jan 6, 2013)

Aviator621 said:


> Call me skeptical; the only way they could pull that off is by buying the lot to the north, and I can't see how they could manage that without SOMETHING leaking out.


Before the economy tanked, Marriott had big plans for the lot to the north that included a Ritz Carlton.  So they may still have rights to that piece of land.

But I agree with the skepticism of others - a major expansion like this would surely be mentioned in the shareholder report.  When is the next quarterly report due for release?

We will be at Ko Olina over spring break this year, so I'll be sure to ask around about future plans.


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## dioxide45 (Jan 6, 2013)

BocaBoy said:


> Not really, unless the two entities do not share common elements.  The Ko Olina deeds are different than the deeds of the other resorts we have owned in that they are the only ones that specify an exact fraction of the entire project for each deeded week.



They could setup a reciprocal usage agreement between the two HOAs. Just because you don't own a part of the common elements doesn't mean an agreement can't be put in place to allow common usage.

Of course I don't think there has to be two separate resorts in order for there to be two different II codes. Ko'Olina already has two codes MKO and MK1. Habour Lake also has MZH and MZ2.


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## larryallen (Jan 6, 2013)

Playing devil's advocate I think the Disney development could change that side of the island. Or should I say it has changed the game a little.  It could make Ko Olina a much more desirable area. With each new hotel you get a few more restaurants in the area. Thus eventually the vision of Ko Olina (from 30 years ago) could come to fruition.


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## BocaBoy (Jan 6, 2013)

dioxide45 said:


> They could setup a reciprocal usage agreement between the two HOAs. Just because you don't own a part of the common elements doesn't mean an agreement can't be put in place to allow common usage.



You could be right if they set up an entirely new independent resort next door--kind of like Desert Springs Villas I and II, or the three Palms resorts at the Orlando World Center.  Most likely that would mean the "new resort" would agree to compensate the existing resort for the use of the existing common amenities, which would still be 100% owned by the "old" owners.  

However, looking at the property and the growth of the Ko Olina area, I don't think we will ever see more than the four towers contemplated in the original plan.  The second half of the third tower only opened recently and the fourth tower has not yet been started.  Ko Olina with four towers is already one of the largest MVCI resorts with 750 villas.  Squeezing in two more towers would dramatically change the character of the resort, and not for the better.


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## csalter2 (Jan 6, 2013)

*Facebook page*



Aviator621 said:


> Thanks BocaBoy, that's an interesting nugget of information. I would love for them to actually go through with this; it would be nice to pair with a week at Ko Olina.
> 
> Csalter, which Facebook page is that? The corporate one or is there another page worth checking out?



There is a Facebook site called Marriott's Ko Olina Beach Club Owners. We discuss various ideas on Ko Olina and try to improve our experience there. We also meet up if folks are there at the same time. It's been a good site.


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## Aviator621 (Jan 7, 2013)

csalter2 said:


> There is a Facebook site called Marriott's Ko Olina Beach Club Owners. We discuss various ideas on Ko Olina and try to improve our experience there. We also meet up if folks are there at the same time. It's been a good site.



Thanks, just put in my request to join.


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## larryallen (Jan 7, 2013)

Lots of good info on that FB page. I recommend it.


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## MALC9990 (Jan 7, 2013)

Southdown13 said:


> The Asia Pacific points system will merge with the DC points program within approximately 18 months.
> 
> The sales executive told us the above info was recently released internally to the sales staff, but there have not been any corporate announcements to the public about this information.



A most interesting point for an Asia Pacific Points owner who is also enrolled in the DC. Would prefer to see this happen sooner rather than later and also the ability to enrole my Phuket Beach Club weeks - although since these are already enrolled in the AP Points Overlay programme allowing conversion to AP points for each week - maybe they will automatically be enrolled in the DC when the AP points are merged into the DC system.

Looks like we will have to wait until 2014 for this. :annoyed::annoyed::annoyed:


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## snackyx (Jan 16, 2013)

Just returned from Ko Olina and the Marriott sales rep, when I asked about the fourth tower, said "Absolutely! Expected to open in late 2014".  I said they had not even broke ground yet, but he said this one would go up like the way Disney builds---boom, boom boom--no delays.

Personally, I would be shocked to see the fourth tower up by the end of 2014, and would even be stunned if ground even breaks by that time.


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## Johnsp (Jan 16, 2013)

I am at Ko Olina right now and went through the update 2 days ago. I was told there would be 3 additional buildings and they would be constructed on the parcel between the existing resort and the marina. My salesperson seemed very sure of it.


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## gblotter (Jan 16, 2013)

Johnsp said:


> I am at Ko Olina right now and went through the update 2 days ago. I was told there would be 3 additional buildings and they would be constructed on the parcel between the existing resort and the marina. My salesperson seemed very sure of it.


If true, that location would not provide many ocean views.

Mainly island views, marina views, and oil refinery views (Iraqi view I call it).


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## pharmgirl (Jan 16, 2013)

The posted site plan has one more building closer to ocean than the naai building


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## eakhat (Jan 17, 2013)

When we went to the sales presentation (we're not owners), the sales rep said they have plans to start building 4.  Employees park in that area now and will be losing those parking spots.  He said the bigger building plan is on hold.  He also said that Marriott sales have really been good, especially in non-Hawaii areas.


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## Aloha Bill (Jan 20, 2013)

If your a Ko Olina owner there is a special FB page just for owners https://www.facebook.com/groups/KoOlina.owners/

[Please note that this page belongs to Aloha Bill - DeniseM Moderator]


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## rpgriego (Apr 26, 2013)

*Ko Olina-- Towers 5 AND 6*

During my Ko Olina sales presentation this week the following was discussed specifically regarding KoOlina. Did anyone hear the same during their Ko Olina presentation?

--mentioned that Disney's presence has significantly helped Ko Olina's sales

--hinted that construction will begin on the fourth and final tower in 2014

--in active discussions with the Ko Olina developer to purchase the area next to future tower four. It's currently a parking lot, but the developer will relocate the parking spaces to make way for two additional towers. Marriott may be able to position the towers for an ocean or harbor view.

Of course, any expansion would be Ko Olina II much the way MVC has Desert Springs Villas I and II.


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## Ron98GT (Apr 26, 2013)

rpgriego said:


> During my Ko Olina sales presentation this week the following was discussed specifically regarding KoOlina. Did anyone hear the same during their Ko Olina presentation?
> 
> --mentioned that Disney's presence has significantly helped Ko Olina's sales
> 
> ...


The Ritz property still makes the most sense.

Yes the public parking lot could be switched to use part of the closed off, empty, $10/day parking lot.  But there are other issues, if you "Squeeze" a tower on to the existing public parking lot, starting with: where would the guests park, what about a swimming pool, what about a beach?  I know they can't remove the public park, but could public Lagoon #4 become nolonger public (I know all Hawaii beaches are suppose to be public) and be used/maintained by Marriott?  Would Marriott have to share the beach?

From what I remember, from 3-weeks ago when I stayed at MKO/MK1 and walked that area, it doesn't make sense.

Also, Lagoon #3 and the common grassy area, where they hold activities next to Longboards, is already packed and will get worse with Building #4.  The unused Ritz property is sitting on used Lagoon #2.

Questions - Questions - Questions


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## slum808 (Apr 26, 2013)

All beaches are public in Hawaii. There can be no private development within 12 feet (I think thats the right number) of the high water mark. There must also be walkways every "x" feet to ensure access to the beach. When they developed Ko Olina, the developer had to negotiate with the state a certain number of public parking stalls to give access to the beach. When you go to the guard shack and tell them you're going to the beach they count your car. Once the stalls are full they restrict access. Of course you can always walk into the property.

I think it would be very difficult for the developer to move the existing public parking. Their will be a large public outcry from the local beach users, as there is already not enough beach parking.


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## rpgriego (Apr 26, 2013)

*Public parking*

Is their a Hawaiian state law that states "Public Parking" must be located within 100 feet of a logoon? What if they move it 300 feet away? 500 feet away? What if they get a dedicated level in a new Marriott parking structure next to the new towers?

Regarding "Beach Access"... Not a concern as each development has a dedicated walkway.

The main factor is moving a parking lot 100 feet from a logoon so the Ko Olina developer can increase ROI. IF, and it's a BIG IF, Marriott pursues such a deal I see it as a WIN for developer, a WIN for Marriott AND a WIN for public parking!


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## slum808 (Apr 26, 2013)

Looking at the parking lot on Google maps, most of the parking is actually for the marina. Only about 50 stalls are designated for public beach parking. Both lots would have to be moved to make way for a very skinny building. 

I supose the developer create a new parking lot on the vacant lot by Lagoon #2. Right now there's only a wedding chapel on that lot. If I were on the city council or department of permiting, I might consider allowing the move, if the number of available stalls was doubled. But if the only proposal was to move the current 50 stalls farther away, no way.


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## slum808 (Apr 26, 2013)

Ron98GT said:


> The Ritz property still makes the most sense.



I looked up the Tax Map Key for the Ritz property. The link shows the owner as HRT Realty LLC. HRT is listed as the owner of the other undeveloped parcels as well. So it apears that Marriott would have to purchase the property for approximatly $33M (land assessed value).


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## rpgriego (Apr 26, 2013)

slum808 said:


> I looked up the Tax Map Key for the Ritz property. The link shows the owner as HRT Realty LLC. HRT is listed as the owner of the other undeveloped parcels as well. So it apears that Marriott would have to purchase the property for approximatly $33M (land assessed value).



GREAT research! However, "land assessed value" is not development value which is always taken into consideration when negotiating a sale price.

As a Ko Olina owner, currently looking straight out from my Moana OV balcony, any high rise construction could significantly compromise if not eliminate the ocean view.

Hopefully, Marriott has a first and/or last right to exceed any agreed upon sale price for the undeveloped parcel.


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## rpgriego (Apr 26, 2013)

slum808 said:


> Looking at the parking lot on Google maps, most of the parking is actually for the marina. Only about 50 stalls are designated for public beach parking. Both lots would have to be moved to make way for a very skinny building.
> 
> I supose the developer create a new parking lot on the vacant lot by Lagoon #2. Right now there's only a wedding chapel on that lot. If I were on the city council or department of permiting, I might consider allowing the move, if the number of available stalls was doubled. But if the only proposal was to move the current 50 stalls farther away, no way.



If the developer meets "Public Parking" requirements they are well within their right to place the lot where they want. That said, I believe it would have to be within reasonable walking distance. I'm sure anyone would agree, a requirement for an ocean front parking lot would not hold up in court. 

Consider this, is a parking lot required if it could be a stand alone structure within walking distance? Maybe it could be dedicated levels within a Marriott parking structure. Or be included in future plans for the retail space now being planned for the area previously marked as aquarium.


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## dioxide45 (Apr 27, 2013)

I simply don't see them acquiring more land at Ko'Olina to build out more than the currently planned four buildings. They can acquire land in many more places much cheaper and I am sure that construction costs in Hawaii would be higher than many other places in the continental USA.

Consider also that they have many other locations with undeveloped inventory. Grand Chateau, Lakeshore Reserve, Harbour Lake, Shadow Ridge, Willow Ridge Lodge, Fairway Villas, frenchman's Cove. There are many years to go where they acquire land to build new units. In fact they have other excess land where no current resorts exist that they are trying to unload.


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## Ron98GT (Apr 28, 2013)

dioxide45 said:


> I simply don't see them acquiring more land at Ko'Olina to build out more than the currently planned four buildings. They can acquire land in many more places much cheaper and I am sure that construction costs in Hawaii would be higher than many other places in the continental USA.
> 
> Consider also that they have many other locations with undeveloped inventory. Grand Chateau, Lakeshore Reserve, Harbour Lake, Shadow Ridge, Willow Ridge Lodge, Fairway Villas, frenchman's Cove. There are many years to go where they acquire land to build new units. In fact they have other excess land where no current resorts exist that they are trying to unload.


I could be wrong (wouldn't be the first time), but I think Ko'Olina is a money pit for Marriott, unlike the other properties they have available around the world.  Families go to Aulani, spend $600/nite to stay there, and attend a TS presentation to see what it would cost to own there.  Then they go to the Marriott, see what it's like, see that it's so kid friendly, see that it cheaper to purchase there, hear how they could go to Disney/Paris, Disney/Orlando, Maui, Aruba, etc, and then buy a Marriott because they think it's a deal after seeing/staying at Aulani.


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## Ron98GT (Apr 28, 2013)

slum808 said:


> I looked up the Tax Map Key for the Ritz property. The link shows the owner as HRT Realty LLC. HRT is listed as the owner of the other undeveloped parcels as well. So it apears that Marriott would have to purchase the property for approximatly $33M (land assessed value).


Thanks for sharing that Map Key.  I was wondering if Marriott actually owned the property that the TS's are on.

I also noticed that there are "two" vacant partials along Lagoon #2.  Like someone else stated, Marriott could hold the right of first refusal on the land?


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## Ron98GT (Apr 28, 2013)

slum808 said:


> Looking at the parking lot on Google maps, most of the parking is actually for the marina. Only about 50 stalls are designated for public beach parking. Both lots would have to be moved to make way for a very skinny building.
> 
> I supose the developer create a new parking lot on the vacant lot by Lagoon #2. Right now there's only a wedding chapel on that lot. If I were on the city council or department of permiting, I might consider allowing the move, if the number of available stalls was doubled. But if the only proposal was to move the current 50 stalls farther away, no way.


I heard that the public parking lot at Lagoon #4 can get filled by late morning and/or early afternoon.  Yet the Marina parking remained mostly vacant every day we were there: maybe $10/day had something to do with it.

I would think that if some of the Marina parking was converted to public parking, then the existing public parking lot could be used for other use: but not for a high rise TS, it's too small.


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## frank808 (Apr 28, 2013)

Ron98GT said:


> I could be wrong (wouldn't be the first time), but I think Ko'Olina is a money pit for Marriott, unlike the other properties they have available around the world.  Families go to Aulani, spend $600/nite to stay there, and attend a TS presentation to see what it would cost to own there.  Then they go to the Marriott, see what it's like, see that it's so kid friendly, see that it cheaper to purchase there, hear how they could go to Disney/Paris, Disney/Orlando, Maui, Aruba, etc, and then buy a Marriott because they think it's a deal after seeing/staying at Aulani.



Actually the price for a 2br at MKO in island view in the cheapest season is about $45,000.  Aulani in a 2br standerd view in the cheapest season also costs about $45,000.  Upfront wise they are comparable in costs.  Maintenance fees at both resorts with 4050 pts at MKO and 343 pts at Aulani are within $200 or so of each other.  

I would take the marriott salesperson quote of "people going to an Aulani presentation and then coming to buy a marriott" with a grain of salt.  Seems to me direct pricing wise both Aulani and MKO are at the same price level.  On the resale market though you can get an MKO island view every year 2br for about $5000 and m/f of about $1800.  Now that is a great price compared to Disney.  Even resale points at ssr will run you in excess of $17000 and maintenance fees are comparable to MKO.


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## dioxide45 (Apr 28, 2013)

Ron98GT said:


> I could be wrong (wouldn't be the first time), but I think Ko'Olina is a money pit for Marriott, unlike the other properties they have available around the world.  Families go to Aulani, spend $600/nite to stay there, and attend a TS presentation to see what it would cost to own there.  Then they go to the Marriott, see what it's like, see that it's so kid friendly, see that it cheaper to purchase there, hear how they could go to Disney/Paris, Disney/Orlando, Maui, Aruba, etc, and then buy a Marriott because they think it's a deal after seeing/staying at Aulani.



True, but they can now sell Ko'Olina forever without ever breaking ground on another building at the site. The beauty of points. As long as there are points to sell, they can sell Ko'Olina indefinitely.


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## rpgriego (Apr 28, 2013)

dioxide45 said:


> I simply don't see them acquiring more land at Ko'Olina to build out more than the currently planned four buildings. They can acquire land in many more places much cheaper and I am sure that construction costs in Hawaii would be higher than many other places in the continental USA.
> 
> Consider also that they have many other locations with undeveloped inventory. Grand Chateau, Lakeshore Reserve, Harbour Lake, Shadow Ridge, Willow Ridge Lodge, Fairway Villas, frenchman's Cove. There are many years to go where they acquire land to build new units. In fact they have other excess land where no current resorts exist that they are trying to unload.



It's true MVW has existing properties with future expansion either in the pipeline or on hold. However, you really have to ask: Does a Ko Olina expansion, beyond tower four and its adult pools, offer Marriott greater ROI?


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## dioxide45 (Apr 28, 2013)

rpgriego said:


> It's true MVW has existing properties with future expansion either in the pipeline or on hold. However, you really have to ask: Does a Ko Olina expansion, beyond tower four and its adult pools, offer Marriott greater ROI?



That is the question. Land acquisition and construction costs would not be cheap in Hawaii, though they can allot more DC points to those units as compared to a unit elsewhere in the continental US. I simply don't see them acquiring any land for new construction anytime in the next decade.


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## Ron98GT (Apr 29, 2013)

frank808 said:


> Actually the price for a 2br at MKO in island view in the cheapest season is about $45,000.  Aulani in a 2br standerd view in the cheapest season also costs about $45,000.  Upfront wise they are comparable in costs.  Maintenance fees at both resorts with 4050 pts at MKO and 343 pts at Aulani are within $200 or so of each other.
> 
> I would take the marriott salesperson quote of "people going to an Aulani presentation and then coming to buy a marriott" with a grain of salt.  Seems to me direct pricing wise both Aulani and MKO are at the same price level.  On the resale market though you can get an MKO island view every year 2br for about $5000 and m/f of about $1800.  Now that is a great price compared to Disney.  Even resale points at ssr will run you in excess of $17000 and maintenance fees are comparable to MKO.



Mahalo Frank.  I figured a retail MKO was around $45K.  It's been a while since I've seen Aulani retail prices.  I "thought" they were $60K+, from what remember.  Interesting to hear that Aulii's prices are comparable to MKO's.  

Well, I said I'm probably wrong, guess I was 

I'm I also wrong on the "assumption" that Ko'Olina is a money pit for Marriott?


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## Ron98GT (Apr 29, 2013)

dioxide45 said:


> That is the question. Land acquisition and construction costs would not be cheap in Hawaii, though they can allot more DC points to those units as compared to a unit elsewhere in the continental US. I simply don't see them acquiring any land for new construction anytime in the next decade.



That was my assumption, which you confirmed.


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## rpgriego (Apr 30, 2013)

frank808 said:


> Actually the price for a 2br at MKO in island view in the cheapest season is about $45,000.  Aulani in a 2br standerd view in the cheapest season also costs about $45,000.  Upfront wise they are comparable in costs.  Maintenance fees at both resorts with 4050 pts at MKO and 343 pts at Aulani are within $200 or so of each other.
> 
> I would take the marriott salesperson quote of "people going to an Aulani presentation and then coming to buy a marriott" with a grain of salt.  Seems to me direct pricing wise both Aulani and MKO are at the same price level.  On the resale market though you can get an MKO island view every year 2br for about $5000 and m/f of about $1800.  Now that is a great price compared to Disney.  Even resale points at ssr will run you in excess of $17000 and maintenance fees are comparable to MKO.



Is Aulani a lifetime purchase like a Marriott Vacation Club purchase?


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## slum808 (Apr 30, 2013)

No, I belive Aulani is a 50 yr RTU like all dvc properties.


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## StevenTing (Apr 30, 2013)

Ron98GT said:


> Mahalo Frank.  I figured a retail MKO was around $45K.  It's been a while since I've seen Aulani retail prices.  I "thought" they were $60K+, from what remember.  Interesting to hear that Aulii's prices are comparable to MKO's.
> 
> Well, I said I'm probably wrong, guess I was
> 
> I'm I also wrong on the "assumption" that Ko'Olina is a money pit for Marriott?



I was one of the people that paid the stupid tax and bought Ko Olina at retail.  I did it in 2009 and paid $38k for a 2BR Ocean View.  This was after the 25% discount that they were advertising for their 25th Year of MVCI.  That means the retail price back then was about $50k.

From my understanding, Marriott bought their land and a reasonable price.  When Disney bought their land, they paid a lot more compared to Marriott.  I want to say that Marriott bought their land for like $30 Million while Disney bought their land for like $150 million.  Some outrageous number.


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## rpgriego (Apr 30, 2013)

frank808 said:


> Actually the price for a 2br at MKO in island view in the cheapest season is about $45,000.  Aulani in a 2br standerd view in the cheapest season also costs about $45,000.  Upfront wise they are comparable in costs.  Maintenance fees at both resorts with 4050 pts at MKO and 343 pts at Aulani are within $200 or so of each other.
> 
> I would take the marriott salesperson quote of "people going to an Aulani presentation and then coming to buy a marriott" with a grain of salt.  Seems to me direct pricing wise both Aulani and MKO are at the same price level.  On the resale market though you can get an MKO island view every year 2br for about $5000 and m/f of about $1800.  Now that is a great price compared to Disney.  Even resale points at ssr will run you in excess of $17000 and maintenance fees are comparable to MKO.



You state, "Seems to me direct pricing wise both Aulani and MKO are at the same price level."

Is it "same price level" if you agree to give up your DCV ownership after ## of years. Your heirs get your MVC week which will be paid off at that point.

Is it "same price level" if the DVC offers you another ## years if you give them more money? Your MVC week is a one time purchase.


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## frank808 (May 1, 2013)

One I am not going to be around or not going to be able to use the resort when my rtu use expires.  I will be pretty close to 92 years old.  I like to pass on assets...I do not want to pass on an expense to my child.  

Two like I wrote the prices direct for a comparison is at the same price level nothing more.  I was not comparing use years with perpetual ownership.


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## Ron98GT (May 1, 2013)

rpgriego said:


> You state, "Seems to me direct pricing wise both Aulani and MKO are at the same price level."
> 
> Is it "same price level" if you agree to give up your DCV ownership after ## of years. Your heirs get your MVC week which will be paid off at that point.
> 
> Is it "same price level" if the DVC offers you another ## years if you give them more money? Your MVC week is a one time purchase.



I'd have to agree with Frank, for a number of reasons.  It isn't like this is "real" Real Estate like a home, townhouse, condo, etc.  This is a one week TS used for a vacation.  I'm 61 with no heirs.  And in most cases, I think you'd find that the heirs don't want to inherit a TS, which a cash outlay and requires too much time planning.  Heirs want assets, not a guaranteed debt. But, that's my opinion.


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## rpgriego (May 1, 2013)

frank808 said:


> One I am not going to be around or not going to be able to use the resort when my rtu use expires.  I will be pretty close to 92 years old.  I like to pass on assets...I do not want to pass on an expense to my child.
> 
> Two like I wrote the prices direct for a comparison is at the same price level nothing more.  I was not comparing use years with perpetual ownership.



I believe every person takes an annual vacation, they only differ in length of time. For example, a Best Western Motel for a weekend or driving to and staying with relatives for a week or hitting a Las Vegas casino hotel or the beaches of Hawaii. ALL cost, no matter how we rationalize it.

So when a Marriott owner kicks-it they leave their paid-off Marriott to their heirs, who will be responsible for an annual maintenance fee. If their heirs seek a Marriott Vacation Club style vacation the MF will determine their ROI. If they know how to use the system (converting a lock-off studio for a two bedroom / converting MRPs into FIRST CLASS TICKETS) I believe they will be quite satisfied with their inheritance.


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## rpgriego (May 1, 2013)

Ron98GT said:


> I'd have to agree with Frank, for a number of reasons.  It isn't like this is "real" Real Estate like a home, townhouse, condo, etc.  This is a one week TS used for a vacation.  I'm 61 with no heirs.  And in most cases, I think you'd find that the heirs don't want to inherit a TS, which a cash outlay and requires too much time planning.  Heirs want assets, not a guaranteed debt. But, that's my opinion.



You got the asset vs debt right. But, I believe a MVC villa is an asset, IF YOU KNOW HOW TO MAXIMIZE THE SYSTEM. Now don't get me wrong, I pay A LOT in annual MFs, but every lock-off trade is an upgrade and then compared to ca$h prices. MRPs are only redeemed for Travel Packages. Again, the seven night stay is booked and compared to ca$h prices. The airfare is only redeemed for FC. The most recent round of MANY ROUNDS was for FOUR FC tickets to Rome on Air France.

During my most recent Ko Olina THREE BEDROOM OCEAN VIEW Interval International trade with my Imperial Palms week, my relatives keep asking me when I was going to give my MVC villas to them. lol... Why? Because they've watched and learned how to maximize the system.


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## frank808 (May 2, 2013)

double post


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## frank808 (May 2, 2013)

rpgriego said:


> I believe every person takes an annual vacation, they only differ in length of time. For example, a Best Western Motel for a weekend or driving to and staying with relatives for a week or hitting a Las Vegas casino hotel or the beaches of Hawaii. ALL cost, no matter how we rationalize it.
> 
> So when a Marriott owner kicks-it they leave their paid-off Marriott to their heirs, who will be responsible for an annual maintenance fee. If their seeking a Marriott Vacation Club style vacation the MF will determine their ROI. If they know how to use the system (converting a lock-off studio for a two bedroom / converting MRPs into FIRST CLASS TICKETS) I believe they will be quite satisfied with their inheritance.



I can introduce you to quite a few people here that have no vacation at all.  They work 6 or 7 days a week and they work every week.  All they do is work and work to make ends meet.  

I was not comparing the value left after 10 years or 50 years.  Just the current direct pricing.  Just wanted to correct what the sale person at marriott said. Which was how people see disneys price and come and buy at marriott because it is cheaper.  All I did was state the sales person was bending the truth.  Also I have sat in on presentations by marriott ko olina sales people and aulani sales people.  I have heard marriott make the claim about being cheaper but, I have never heard dvc sales people even mention the marriott next door.   

I own both marriott weeks and dvc points.  I see both sides and am not biased towards one or the other.  I bought into both systems because I see value in each system as for me they complement each other perfectly.  I enjoy marriott ko olina enough that I stay there way more than Aulani.


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## rpgriego (May 2, 2013)

frank808 said:


> I can introduce you to quite a few people here that have no vacation at all.  They work 6 or 7 days a week and they work every week.  All they do is work and work to make ends meet.
> 
> I was not comparing the value left after 10 years or 50 years.  Just the current direct pricing.  Just wanted to correct what the sale person at marriott said. Which was how people see disneys price and come and buy at marriott because it is cheaper.  All I did was state the sales person was bending the truth.  Also I have sat in on presentations by marriott ko olina sales people and aulani sales people.  I have heard marriott make the claim about being cheaper but, I have never heard dvc sales people even mention the marriott next door.
> 
> I own both marriott weeks and dvc points.  I see both sides and am not biased towards one or the other.  I bought into both systems because I see value in each system as for me they complement each other perfectly.  I enjoy marriott ko olina enough that I stay there way more than Aulani.



With all due respect, your picking and choosing what parts of "direct pricing" you want to quote and then stating all is equal. I'm an investor that takes into consideration the real estate term: Term of Use. I also continually examine my ROI before and after every MVC transaction.


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## frank808 (May 3, 2013)

frank808 said:


> Actually the price for a 2br at MKO in island view in the cheapest season is about $45,000.  Aulani in a 2br standerd view in the cheapest season also costs about $45,000.  Upfront wise they are comparable in costs.  Maintenance fees at both resorts with 4050 pts at MKO and 343 pts at Aulani are within $200 or so of each other.
> 
> I would take the marriott salesperson quote of "people going to an Aulani presentation and then coming to buy a marriott" with a grain of salt.  Seems to me direct pricing wise both Aulani and MKO are at the same price level.  On the resale market though you can get an MKO island view every year 2br for about $5000 and m/f of about $1800.  Now that is a great price compared to Disney.  Even resale points at ssr will run you in excess of $17000 and maintenance fees are comparable to MKO.





rpgriego said:


> With all due respect, your picking and choosing what parts of "direct pricing" you want to quote and then stating all is equal. I'm an investor that takes into consideration the real estate term: Term of Use. I also continually examine my ROI before and after every MVC transaction.



Where did I pick and choose parts of "direct pricing" and state all is equal?  I just wrote that the costs for a 2br in the cheapest season with standard view both costs $45000.  Yes the prices are equal....$45000 paid to disney is the same as paying $45000 to marriott.  Do you read this as different?  Where did I bring up "term of use"??  You are the one bringing this up in all your posts.  Did I argue this point with you?  In one of my posts I did say right to use versus perpetual ownership.  

You are confusing what I have been saying about PRICE (again price is the same for buying either marriott or disney) with what you perceive as VALUE. Obviously you value more on having perpetual use than right to use.  I will say again that I do not believe that a timeshare is an ASSET in real estate terms.  You must count the home you live in as an investment.  For me I consider it a home. I live in it as I must have a roof over my head.  My home does not generate me any annual income.  It actually costs me money for maintenance, utility, insurance, etc.   

Keep on examining your direct purchase of marriott timeshares for return on investment.  I just look at the timeshares I own as prepaid housing for my vacations.


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