# Wyndham -- new or resell? Help!



## menow (Mar 21, 2017)

Hi all,
I am actually in the room right now running through my recent decision to buy. I have stayed several times and really enjoy the product, but I'm conflicted about the price. I had looked into resells before and it looked appealing for the price per point. I did the normal sales presentation and the saleswoman told me that resold owners are treated very poorly, they have hard times getting anything booked, they can't bank their points, etc etc etc. I just converted my discovery program into a full ownership yesterday, at the net cost of about $10k for about 84k points a year. Can anyone speak to their experience being a second owner? Is there ever a reason to buy new? I really don't care about the point converting to flights or any of those other fringe benefits. 

I'm in Las Vegas right now, and there is a 3 day buyers remorse law that I may end up using depending on the feedback I get.


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## Jan M. (Mar 21, 2017)

Rescind immediately! None of that is true. You could buy over a million points resale for $10k and 84,000 points isn't enough to do much of anything with. People frequently give away 84,000 point deeds or contracts. In fact there is one someone listed for free here on TUG just a few minutes ago.

You can send the letter with the signature required to rescind. For your own peace of mind I suggest that you take all the stuff and paperwork they gave you and walk back over to the sales office and cancel everything right there. We have done exactly that at Grand Desert and they gave us copies of everything signed and dated proving we cancelled.


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## scootr5 (Mar 21, 2017)

menow said:


> I did the normal sales presentation and the saleswoman told me that resold owners are treated very poorly, they have hard times getting anything booked, they can't bank their points, etc etc etc.



Lies, lies, and more lies. Other than a couple of things such as converting to airfare and the like (which are very poor uses of the points anyway), resale owners are treated exactly the same. We have exactly the same chances of getting a reservation where and when we want as an owner who bought the same directly from Wyndham. We can bank points just fine.


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## nicemann (Mar 21, 2017)

Agree cancel.  They tried that on me also.  What resort is it in Vegas?  I was at the Grand Desert last month and they tried to sell me more points.  Once I told them I only do resell and broke down the numbers for them they wanted me out of the room really fast.  Did not have to stay for my agreed to time to get the gift card.  Guess they were scared I would poison their other marks around.


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## vacationhopeful (Mar 21, 2017)

They hooked you with a TASTE ... marketed as "Discovery" ... which is a told BS package. They withhold 3/4 night stays at popular times .. to convince you that as a Direct/Full Price owner ... every week at every resort for the BEST of dates is YOURS for the choosing.... It is called MARKETING ... to get you to spend WAY more $$$....... thus you did ... 
.....you brought 84K ... you keep (and I really want to say you would be NOT SMART if you did) ... and try to book a 7 night stay ... PRIME time, like Thanksgiving... I bet your online account will not be set up til after the 3 days is in your rear view mirror (your recession period) and you find all the nice resorts are BOOKED SOLID ... and 84K can not be get you a Wed, Thu, Fri and Sat night because that resort has NO SUNDAY checkin/checkout dates... and the computer won't allow breakage for over 2 weeks for your 4 night stay.... might get 3 nights ... Wed. Thurs & Fri 3 

nights ... but who wants to go HOME by 10AM Saturday morning? You might figure checkout by 5 or 6 PM would be a good vacation...on Sunday .. maybe even take Sunday night, too for less traffic.

Rescind and spend HOURs reading here. Even rent a few nights or another week at $100 per night on the LMR thread.


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## bnoble (Mar 21, 2017)

menow said:


> the saleswoman told me that resold owners are treated very poorly, they have hard times getting anything booked, they can't bank their points, etc etc etc.


I'm a resale-only owner. I don't believe any of this is true. The only thing that is _slightly_ true is that resale owners always must pool (what you call "bank") points prior to the start of our use year, whereas someone who paid big bucks for many hundreds of thousands of points would get an extra three+ months.


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## Iggyearl (Mar 21, 2017)

The rescission period in Nevada is 5 days.  You can always buy retail in the future.  That deal will always be there.  Rescind and learn from these experts - many of whom bought Wyndham on the resale market.  Remember - when a retail timeshare is sold, 50% of the cost goes to marketing (advertising, bribes, sales support) and commissions.  Your sales lady doesn't eat if you don't buy retail.  Isn't she is trying to tell you that your retail purchase will have no value when the rescission period is over?  How nice of her........


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## ecwinch (Mar 21, 2017)

Yes rescind now. There should be a form letter in your sales paperwork that you can use.


When you go to use your pts to reserve a room, resale owners are treated the same as anyone else. There are some small benefits from buying from the developer, but the cost far outweighs those benefits.


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## menow (Mar 21, 2017)

I'm definitely hearing anything that sounds like I should keep it. I really appreciate your feedback, does anyone have anything positive to say about buying directly from the developer, or is it seriously those super minor benefits like converting points to flights? Additionally, can anyone tell me things to watch out for when buying a resale? I've read up a little on some eBay scammers here, but anything from hidden fees to limitations to anything else you think I should know. I'm sorry to ask so much, but this is such a big deal to us!


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## vacationhopeful (Mar 21, 2017)

You don't have to buy off ebay. You can buy via the Marketplace here on TUG, Bargain Deals in the forums or other independent websites like Redweek. 

And any asking price via any of these options, is an ASKING price. I have brought most of my several millions of points via eBay. I have gotten several deals here on TUG. And I own both Wyndham points (& fixed weeks) from all those sources listed above. No crooked deals. (eBay large Wyndham points sellers were easy ... they are well practiced and cheapest sellers.)

Just my experience ...


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## nicemann (Mar 21, 2017)

I agree with vacationhopeful.  eBay is pretty safe if you buy from the big sellers.  I bought my resell here on TUG.  I have someone PM me when I was asking a lot of questions.  Did my research here on the forum and decided to go with them.  I made it was someone that had lot's a good feedback here.  I paid a little more then I would have on eBay but I felt comfortable with the person.  Sometimes that extra hundred or two is worth it.

Take your time and research if you really want to own.  Learn everything you can.  Somethings pointed out on here I did not know when I bought and was disappointed when I finally got my account setup.  For example the Sunday checkin.  I figured I could check in whenever I wanted.  Nope it is locked down by some resorts.  Lot's of rules you won't know till you do research.  I was on a high from a TS presentation when I bought my resell.  They had my wife hooked and she was ready to pay retail.  I at least spent a little time researching and that's why I did the resell.  I'm not mad about my resell purchase but just wish I would have waited for the entire high to wear off first.  I enjoy my trips but probably will be renting more in the feature instead of buying more points.  RCI last minute deals have had a few good bargains out there along with the renters on here.


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## foundyoubyaccident (Mar 21, 2017)

I have bought both developer and resale.  I do not regret any of my purchases.  I am not VIP, I can bank my points, go to other resorts, and I am not treated badly.  Well, one time I was, because the sales person told me I would only be allowed to book at my home resort unless I bought more points from her and I laughed at her and explained I had yet to visit my "home" resort since my 1st purchase.  She wasn't happy with that, and got a bit of an attitude and sent me on my way with my gift.  My husband and I decided not to do owner updates anymore after that.

I do not see you happy with your purchase when you realize that 84k doesn't go very far, especially if you are like me and my husband who do weekend get a ways as well as week long vacations.

Good Luck in whatever you decide!


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## Jan M. (Mar 21, 2017)

menow said:


> I'm definitely hearing anything that sounds like I should keep it. I really appreciate your feedback, does anyone have anything positive to say about buying directly from the developer, or is it seriously those super minor benefits like converting points to flights? Additionally, can anyone tell me things to watch out for when buying a resale? I've read up a little on some eBay scammers here, but anything from hidden fees to limitations to anything else you think I should know. I'm sorry to ask so much, but this is such a big deal to us!



I don't believe that there is a single one us here on TUG that would recommend buying developer points, points purchased directly from Wyndham. Yes there are advantages to buying developer points but only if you spend the money to at least reach VIP gold and preferably platinum. And that is a big, big chunk of money! Unless of course you have $150-$200k lying around and nothing better to do with it!


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## menow (Mar 21, 2017)

I'm sorry to keep asking questions, I think this is the last one I have. The sales person kept explaining to us that the resold locations are typically undesirable locations, which can complicate things, such as booking, and your annual dues. This sounded fake to me because I thought points were points. Is this seriously a case of me being sold? I think of myself as so careful and frugal, maybe not (or maybe they are really really good)?


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## ecwinch (Mar 21, 2017)

No - we have access to the same resorts. It's alternative facts.

Here is the deal. You have a limited amount of time to rescind. Nothing will change if you rescind, take time to research, and then go back and buy from the developer. That deal or a better one will still be there. But if you let your recession period expire - you never will be able to change that decision.

So rescind now and preserve your options.

The sales process is scientifically designed to encourage you to make a very large impulse purchase that you never make under normal conditions. States have recognized this and by law require the recession period. Use it.


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## nicemann (Mar 21, 2017)

menow said:


> I'm sorry to keep asking questions, I think this is the last one I have. The sales person kept explaining to us that the resold locations are typically undesirable locations, which can complicate things, such as booking, and your annual dues. This sounded fake to me because I thought points were points. Is this seriously a case of me being sold? I think of myself as so careful and frugal, maybe not (or maybe they are really really good)?



Points are points at 10 months till the travel date.  Doesn't matter if they are Bonnet Creek or Flagstaff AZ.  They will reserve the same locations.  Just something else the salesperson lied to you about.


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## ronparise (Mar 21, 2017)

menow said:


> I'm sorry to keep asking questions, I think this is the last one I have. The sales person kept explaining to us that the resold locations are typically undesirable locations, which can complicate things, such as booking, and your annual dues. This sounded fake to me because I thought points were points. Is this seriously a case of me being sold? I think of myself as so careful and frugal, maybe not (or maybe they are really really good)?



The resorts don't know whether your points came from Wyndham or from eBay

Points purchased on the secondary market work exactly the same as points purchased from Wyndham 
Except for VIP discounts 

It sounds like you really want to believe that salesman. Why not rescind, do your homework. Then decide to buy from Wyndham or not


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## whitewater (Mar 21, 2017)

menow said:


> Hi all,
> I am actually in the room right now running through my recent decision to buy. I have stayed several times and really enjoy the product, but I'm conflicted about the price. I had looked into resells before and it looked appealing for the price per point. I did the normal sales presentation and the saleswoman told me that resold owners are treated very poorly, they have hard times getting anything booked, they can't bank their points, etc etc etc. I just converted my discovery program into a full ownership yesterday, at the net cost of about $10k for about 84k points a year. Can anyone speak to their experience being a second owner? Is there ever a reason to buy new? I really don't care about the point converting to flights or any of those other fringe benefits.
> 
> I'm in Las Vegas right now, and there is a 3 day buyers remorse law that I may end up using depending on the feedback I get.


Rescind:  10 grand goes a long way resale.  


Here is one for a couple of hundred dollars if 84k is enough for your.  http://tugbbs.com/forums/index.php?...nts-wyndham-grand-desert.253314/#post-1983837

Not affiliated just providing context.


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## vacationhopeful (Mar 21, 2017)

Some people just believe that a computer friend/source is never as trustworthy as a live friendly person who is well groomed, friendly and attentive plus says so many nice things about them .. personal interaction.

If a buyer understood they are PROFILED and past interactions with all the Wyndham sales personnel are included ... the buyer would feel different. Like that they were "played".

Think about responses people who buy from the developer say here on TUG. Never negative things when they sign contracts for $30,000 or a $50,000 purchase .. an impulse buy. People get their sales person's business card ... offering personal help to book and arrange vacations plus sending renters their way.

My best story I have about an experience HIGH producer ... needed my photo ID to run my credit when I was at Wyndham Royal Vista. If you have been to their 9th floor sales room with the excellent ocean view and the ocean horizon, you know the view is to kill for. She just needed photo ID to run my credit EXCEPT I did not have my ID with me...I left it in my unit ... in Ft Lauderdale. Asked me why I was driving with no license .. told her I was dropped off and was planning to take the public bus back to the Ft Lauderdale Beach Resort. Well, she just insisted that time was of the essence and she WOULD drive me to where I was staying to get my id. Of course, she had NO intention of letting me out of her sight and when we arrived, suggest she park and come up with me to my unit. I forgot to tell her, I was in a 17th OCEANFRONT condo with a direct ocean view from all the patio door and my bdr plus a triple window behind the sofa looking due north thru the large Hugh Taylor State Park.

Her jaw dropped just inside the unit's door, walked out onto the balcony where I asked her ... "Better view than Royal Vista?" .. esp when I told her the MFs for this 2/2 unit was $875 per year. As this was a fixed week and unit in writing, asked if she could get me the same oceanfront unit every year with Wyndham?

She told me that was a great view and she could not sell be anything like that. And she left FAST.

I got a free ride home ... most likely that did not make my Wyndham record ... TS staff is not supposed to be giving rides to resort guests.

PS I own about 2,000,000 deeded Royal Vista points ... which includes Advance Reservation Priority ... gets me as many weeks that I want at RV. I rent those units and stay in my fixed week units at the Ft Lauderdale Beach resort ... where the 2/2 lockoff unit's MFs are now about $880 per week. Royal Vista MFs for a 2/2 at the same time is around $1450-1500 weekly.


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## Goofy6294 (Mar 21, 2017)

Rescind now.  I have a similar contract that I bought for the cost of the transfer fees.


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## Richelle (Mar 21, 2017)

menow said:


> I'm sorry to keep asking questions, I think this is the last one I have. The sales person kept explaining to us that the resold locations are typically undesirable locations, which can complicate things, such as booking, and your annual dues. This sounded fake to me because I thought points were points. Is this seriously a case of me being sold? I think of myself as so careful and frugal, maybe not (or maybe they are really really good)?



Im going to ditto everyone here. I just want to add, that if your gut is telling you something is wrong, then back out now. Do not wait. Do it now and don't take any slack or a guilt trip from any sales person. You can always change your mind later. There are tons of Wyndham sales people who would love your business. It sounds like you know you are being lied to an manipulated.  You are. Like the others said, that deal or better will always be there. You asked if there are benefits to buying developer. Some only touched upon it so I'll add to that

1. Resale does not get you VIP status. VIP status starts at 400k (Silver) points and goes to one million (Platinum) but all of those have to be developer points.  VIP gets you points discounts. The amount of the discount varies based on your level. There is silver, gold, and platinum VIP. The discounts are 25%, 35%, and 50% respectively. You also get additional guest certificates. 5,10, and 15 respectively. Also, unlimited housekeeping credits. I've never gone over mine. There are others, but those are just the ones that I hear people use most often.  Unless you travel often and/or in large groups, you probably won't use those benefits often and you will have wasted money on something you hardly use. 

2. You can only use developer points for Club pass reservations. Those are World Mark resorts. If you want to book at world mark occasionally, just pay cash. If you want to go often, go to eBay and buy WorldMark points (you might find some forsake here too). Either way, it's a lot cheaper the $10k. 

3. PIC. You can only add RCI weeks to PIC if you buy points from the developer. If you don't have an RCI timeshare already, this is irrelevant. 

I have both resale and developer. I would have to say I wish I would have bought all resale. I bought 182k points from the developer for $15k eight years ago. Long before I found this site. It's an expensive lesson learned.  Resale will get you so much more for your money. Just remember, you have to pay maintenance fees on whatever you buy. And don't let the sales person tell you that you will spend more on maintenance fees if you buy resale. That is BS as well. As far as being treated badly, your chances are the same. The person at the front desk does not give a darn where you got your points. Neither does the VC who helps you make your reservations. The only people who care are the sales people that are lying to you.  The product is a good one. The sales people don't put the company in a good light with their lies and manipulation. Good luck to you. Stay strong!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## nicemann (Mar 21, 2017)

vacationhopeful said:


> If a buyer understood they are PROFILED and past interactions with all the Wyndham sales personnel are included ... the buyer would feel different. Like that they were "played"



What you mean because on the last sales presentation I was not with the wife...they gave me the most attractive sales lady they had on purpose?  She started to flirt just because she wanted my money??  I think I need to take a shower now...


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## Iggyearl (Mar 21, 2017)

So MENOW - you have 20+ comments from people who don't have ANY vested interest in your decision.  They all recommend not buying retail.  The one person who is recommending that you buy retail has a vested interest in your decision.  She will be having a BIG steak dinner when the rescission period is up.  Are you "buying" this product or are you being "sold" this product?


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## menow (Mar 22, 2017)

Guys,
I can't thank you enough for your input. I think you have just saved me from a huge mistake. I'm literally walking down to the contract group right now!


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## ronparise (Mar 22, 2017)

If you read the rescission language in your purchace and sale agreement you will not see "walking down to the contract group" as the proper method to rescind

If you had said you are walking to the post office, that would be better


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## vacationhopeful (Mar 22, 2017)

menow said:


> Guys,
> I can't thank you enough for your input. I think you have just saved me from a huge mistake. I'm literally walking down to the contract group right now!





ronparise said:


> If you read the rescission language in your purchace and sale agreement you will not see "walking down to the contract group" as the proper method to rescind
> 
> If you had said you are walking to the post office, that would be better



You need to google US POST OFFICE, window hours and print out the directions to said post office ... TODAY. Most post offices have coin operated copy machines .. to copy your signed RESCIND letter ... and then mail via CERTIFIED MAIL and a 2nd sign copy REGULAR MAIL. You can buy envelopes and stamps ... keep the certified mailing receipt and copies of the letter you mailed ...

It is the date of MAILING for a certified letter ... YOU MUST SPEND THE MONEY for that mailing .. about $6.00 ... else it is the date of their receiving the letter which you could NOT PROVE in a court of law.

Else ... you become the PROUD owner of a few timeshare points you spent tens of thousands of dollars over a resale purchase.

You get THIS ONE SMALL WINDOW OF TIME TO RESCIND ... be smart. If you decide this is the best way to go, you can surely get the same or better package on you net visit to a Wyndham Vacation Resort.


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## Richelle (Mar 23, 2017)

Just to add to Ronpraise and Vacationhopeful's comments, I would not be surprised if the sales person told you they would tear up the contract or cancel it or whatever, and then not do it. As the others said, read the rescinding instructions on the contract. Get it down before the post office closes today so you have a record of it being mailed out today. Dropping it in the mailbox is not enough. Certified mail. Today. Don't listen to the sales people. The only way you can guarantee that it will get canceled is if you follow the directions and do it yourself. Those sales people are weasels and will do whatever they can to trap you. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## menow (Mar 23, 2017)

Damn, you guys are saving my butt left and right! I sincerely can't thank you enough!


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## whitewater (Mar 23, 2017)

menow said:


> Damn, you guys are saving my butt left and right! I sincerely can't thank you enough!



good group of folks here.


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## NiteMaire (Mar 25, 2017)

menow said:


> Guys,
> I can't thank you enough for your input. I think you have just saved me from a huge mistake. I'm literally walking down to the contract group right now!





menow said:


> Damn, you guys are saving my butt left and right! I sincerely can't thank you enough!



Any update?  I read this thread since it was in the newsletter...now I'm eagerly awaiting the end of the chapter.


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## menow (Mar 25, 2017)

Nitemaire,
I'm back at home with cancellation in the mail  peace of mind well worth the 15 bucks!


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## ckm6670 (Mar 28, 2017)

Hated hearing all those lies.  Really a shame.  My wife and I are new to this also but it really couldn't have been much simpler.  We purchased 166,000 points from EBay.  Very smooth simple transaction.  Online reservations for a week at Bonnet Creek also very easy.  Had a great time!  Ironically, the worst of it was getting our parking pass and trying to get the salesperson off my back.  Telling me that I had to go to a presentation.  They already have a time booked for me.  Said I could change the time but I HAD to go!  Owners update she kept saying!  Good grief!  Absolutely would not take no for an answer.  Love Bonnet Creek but hate the pressure!  Anyway, buying on the secondary market allows you an affordable vacation and it's just as easy to book and enjoy.  We could never justify spending that much retail.


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## Cxt333 (Mar 28, 2017)

Good grief!  Charlie Brown
I love updates. My goal... I paid 900$ for 294k/ Year points.
My updates to date. $200, $150, $75. = $425
900-425 = $475
I can't wait to be able to say I got my timeshare for freeeeee.   Lol

I did that math at my last update because he was trying to sell cwa to me for 20k and I said to him..... now which math would you like?   Yours or mine?   I also love writing the breakdown upside down just like they do.....I closed It up fast. Ha on to the next update. Now I understand it seems like I'm a little kookoo but I don't do updates on 3 or 4 night stays just not enough time..


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## NiteMaire (Mar 28, 2017)

Cxt333 said:


> I also love writing the breakdown upside down just like they do.....I closed It up fast.


Thanks for making me chuckle 


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