# Need TUG perspective on which DVC to buy



## Weimaraner (Apr 22, 2018)

I've been thinking of buying DVC for about 6 years now. I regret that I didn't do it earlier before DVC made changes to the resale market. And now they've made it a much harder trade via RCI. I've had an ongoing search for months for a resort other than SS or OKW that has gone unfilled. So I'm thinking of just getting 75 points Beach Club direct to give me DVC perks like member nights and discounted APs and add a few DVC nights to our Orlando trips. I may add some AKL via resale because we really love that resort so would enjoy staying there and it's cost effective to trade into the other DVC resorts at 7 months. I like Saratoga and know I can get it via RCI trades but I would like the flexibility to stay at AKL and try Beach Club, Boardwalk, Grand Floridian, Poly etc. I really thought I would benefit from getting input from other TUG members because you are familiar with trading into DVC and many of you have memberships. My 11 yo and I just love Disney and Florida and don't see that going away as she gets older. I am planning to move to Florida when she heads off to college so I can see myself spending some time at BC during Food & Wine. It concerns me that BC is expiring in 24 years so not sure it's the best value in points but honestly don't know that I will be needing those points in my senior years and think DVC might offer ability to extend points at some point. I really love my Marriotts but that ease of jumping on the Mickey express and having someone handle my luggage and the dining plan are perks we really enjoy especially for short trips.  So I've been going back and forth - do I buy BC direct or resale?, do I add AKL if I want to try other resorts? My sales guide is pushing Copper Creek but it is not the place I would want to call home consistently. The only deluxe resort that we don't care for is OKW so I would be open to suggestions on other strategies. Thank you!


----------



## AnnieBets (Apr 22, 2018)

75 points will cover 5 week nights in studio at BCV in the lower seasons.  If you want BCV during F&W, you probably do need to own there and reserve when your window opens.  I really like the benefits of owning direct, but if you think you will want more points, I’d look at what combination of direct and resale works best for you.  Maybe more resale BCV points and the 75 direct somewhere else?


----------



## elaine (Apr 22, 2018)

DVC owner and traded in via RCI 5X. I would buy BC resale and enjoy. The reason to get someplace with longer expiration is for your exit strategy IMHO, as, in theory, a resort with longer expiration will command a higher price. But in actuality, for now, the closer expiry resorts have held their value just fine. I expect with under 20 years left, they might start getting discounted. But who knows, maybe it'll hold until only 15 years left. For 75 points, I wouldn't worry too much. The 11 month booking is fairly important for BCV. If that's where you want to stay, I'd buy there.

We bought  VWL and then AKV (resale). It's easy to book into AKV, so no need for 11 mths. But, I like to get value rooms and like to have my plans assured at 11 months out.  I also LOVE being able to swap out and change up to 31 days form check-in with no penalty (assuming Use Year is not an issue). I have no regrets buying DVC. We also bought 35 DVC HHI points direct (to stay in a studio a few nights EOY), so I get the perks. When I bought, the difference was very slight between direct and resale for HHI b/c DVC had almost no closing costs.  But now, those perks REALLY cost a lot. And, it seems that many have not been able to book the member nights, etc. I would look over on Disboards to see if current events are being shut out. If you buy A LOT of annual passes, then direct might make sense. We went on a members cruise and loved it. But, I have paid cash and gone on a regular DCL and it's not enough to make me pay thousands more, IMHO.  But for others, it might be important, and 75 points is a much lower spread than 160+ points, as the resale prices are higher.

Finally, 75 points at a WDW DVC is not a final decision of owership, IMHO. Based upon the last 10+ years, including the 2008 bubble, you could likley use if for a few years and then resale it recouping all but the sales commission if you bought resale. Of course, nothing is set in stone. But, DVC has held its value (or increased) more than any other TS that I know of.  I bought VWL in 2006 and sold in 2014, and bought a larger AKV contract, so I have actual experience. Good luck.


----------



## vacationhopeful (Apr 22, 2018)

I like my 90 DVC points ... AKV brought resale before the 'downgrading' of resale usage of DVC points. Enough to get a good 1bdr stay every 2 years or a well planned mid-week stay every year.. Could recoup my buyin original resale costs if I sold but would lose keeping grandfather 'resale not now available' benefits. Tried together with another non-Disney-area resort stay ... might be okay.


----------



## ljmiii (Apr 22, 2018)

You've posed a number of different questions and I'll do my best to answer. First, why do you want to buy direct? The Annual Pass discount? Or something else?

The basic rule of timeshares is 'Buy where you want to stay' and DVC is no exception. When we are at WDW we value location above all else and so own at BCV and BLT - we walk to every park but Animal Kingdom.  Your mileage may vary and if you are willing to drive everywhere AKL is very nice. One thing to keep in mind is that 75 points are 150 points EOY quite easily and 225 points with a bit of planning. But most people seem to just buy more points at that point.

Beach Club Villas is one of the few DVC resorts where the spread between the direct and resale price is not THAT significant because DVC has no inventory, a backlog of owners wanting to buy more, and as a new purchaser you would be at the bottom of the queue. So while the pain of buying direct is less you'll have to wait for a bit. (Full disclosure...150 of my BCV points are currently for sale).

As for DVC vs MVCI...we stayed at Royal Palms to visit WDW last year and I swore that I would never do it again.  Not that we disliked the resort in any way...we LOVED it.  But the way Disney has tilted the playing field for dining and rides toward those staying on-property made the experience annoying and difficult. I did dining reservations at 180 days each and every morning at the opening bell instead of doing it once 180 days in advance for length of stay...and there were some places we didn't get in. And these days you need fastpasses...at least at busy times...and it seems like there aren't any slow times anymore.  So instead of 60 days for length of stay it was each and every morning at 30 days...and we didn't get any of the high demand rides like Seven Dwarves or the Pandora pair.

Lastly, owners of all the 2042 resorts are dealing with the question of what will happen in 24 years. We only really have two data points. The first is that WDW extended DVC's lease at OKW for 15 years and OKW owners were offered a 15 year extension...in a way that was rolled out so poorly that DVC never wants to mess it up again. The second is that very reliable sources have said (at least as of 2016) neither WDW nor DVC had plans for 2042.

So I don't know if DVC will offer an extension for BCV.  But I would be VERY surprised if existing owners didn't get first shot at once again 'buying' a 50 year lease...and the value there is once again location, location, and location.  I'm reasonably sure that the option to buy at BCV is worth rather a lot all by itself and that the difference in price between a resale and direct 2092 contract would be small for quite some time. Of course there are no guarantees for the future...particularly that far out...and YMMV.


----------



## Dean (Apr 22, 2018)

Weimaraner said:


> I've been thinking of buying DVC for about 6 years now. I regret that I didn't do it earlier before DVC made changes to the resale market. And now they've made it a much harder trade via RCI. I've had an ongoing search for months for a resort other than SS or OKW that has gone unfilled. So I'm thinking of just getting 75 points Beach Club direct to give me DVC perks like member nights and discounted APs and add a few DVC nights to our Orlando trips. I may add some AKL via resale because we really love that resort so would enjoy staying there and it's cost effective to trade into the other DVC resorts at 7 months. I like Saratoga and know I can get it via RCI trades but I would like the flexibility to stay at AKL and try Beach Club, Boardwalk, Grand Floridian, Poly etc. I really thought I would benefit from getting input from other TUG members because you are familiar with trading into DVC and many of you have memberships. My 11 yo and I just love Disney and Florida and don't see that going away as she gets older. I am planning to move to Florida when she heads off to college so I can see myself spending some time at BC during Food & Wine. It concerns me that BC is expiring in 24 years so not sure it's the best value in points but honestly don't know that I will be needing those points in my senior years and think DVC might offer ability to extend points at some point. I really love my Marriotts but that ease of jumping on the Mickey express and having someone handle my luggage and the dining plan are perks we really enjoy especially for short trips.  So I've been going back and forth - do I buy BC direct or resale?, do I add AKL if I want to try other resorts? My sales guide is pushing Copper Creek but it is not the place I would want to call home consistently. The only deluxe resort that we don't care for is OKW so I would be open to suggestions on other strategies. Thank you!


Just buy resale, the additional cost won't be made up with the perks.  BLT would be the best value in this situation as it's the next best $$$ value after SSR.  You could do 2 resorts but getting AKV owning elsewhere isn't that difficult.  Make sure you buy enough points, I generally recommend larger than 75 points and at least a 10-20% cushion of points.  The higher end if looking mostly at studios and/or lower seasons.  If you want to go routinely and stay on property, I'd just buy what you need for that if you can afford it and it makes sense otherwise.  Then if you get an exchange the works, you'll have a cushion for other trips.  BTW, I've owned since 94 and the last 18 years or so almost all of our stays have been by exchange.


----------



## elaine (Apr 22, 2018)

we Don’t like to have to get in our car on vacation. So even though Marriott and Hilton’s are very nice-stayed in both the past year-trip enjoyment diminished by in and out of the car and shuttling to wdw. No big deal when kids were young and we spent all day at wdw. But teens now want to sleep later and stay out later. Take 2 kids with 2 friends and you have to shuttle back and forth 4x in 1 day! 
With dvc we just say get on the bus and meet us at noon and take the bus back at midnight.  Boys can leave early and go to water park. It’s a great vacation bubble.


----------



## Cyberc (Apr 25, 2018)

If you only wish do go during F&W then you need to own BCV to stay there. Even with "only" 24 years left on the contract its better to have stayed where you really enjoy staying than have to settle with anything less. From what i've been reading most DVC owners keep their contracts for approx 10 years. If the same applies to you then 24 years is enough.

If you are going during the "slow" season from mid january - late september then you should buy either SSR or maybe BLT. 

Most uses SSR points to "sleep around" as they are cheaper in annual dues and in buyin. "sleeping around" is a lot easier during the slow season but if that will ever change with DVC adding new resorts  going forward only time will tell. But even in slow season BCV can be difficult to book if you dont own there, at least for the studios and 2br.

Before buying your contract direct your need to figure out if the perks are worth the extra cost. Are the savings on an AP enough to justify the additional cost of buying direct.

Buying 75 points are not a lot but if you only looking to go every other year then 75 points might be enough. Thats only if a studio is enough.

Buying 75 points direct will cost you approx $14.000. Resale it would be around $140-$150 per point so roughly $10.500. The smaller contracts demands more per point compared to a the more common contracts. 150 points resale would maybe cost $130 per points.  Buying a larger contract will also cost more in annual dues.


----------



## chalee94 (Apr 25, 2018)

Weimaraner said:


> I can see myself spending some time at BC during Food & Wine. It concerns me that BC is expiring in 24 years so not sure it's the best value in points but honestly don't know that I will be needing those points in my senior years and think DVC might offer ability to extend points at some point. I really love my Marriotts but that ease of jumping on the Mickey express and having someone handle my luggage and the dining plan are perks we really enjoy especially for short trips.  So I've been going back and forth - do I buy BC direct or resale?



BCV is not the best value - I agree with Dean that BLT is a better value financially due to longer term and lower dues - but if you want to be at BCV during Food and Wine, you need to own there and book at 11 months out. ("Fall Frenzy" has been getting worse in general - IMO due to high demand related to lower point costs and offsite resort owners like Aulani trying to get into WDW when airfare to Hawaii gets pricey.)

If you are not buying with the intent of using multiple annual pass discounts on a regular basis, resale is the easy winner as the AP discount is the only real advantage left to buying direct (and all perks can disappear at any time for even direct owners.)

I don't get any value from the dining plan myself but that can vary depending on how you use it.

Based on my experience with the extension at OKW, I don't expect Disney to offer extensions at BCV and when they do offer the opportunity to buy back in for 50 years, it won't be at a reasonable price...(but current owners will most likely get first dibs...)


----------



## bendadin (Apr 27, 2018)

75 direct points is a good start. It holds the extra amenities like cruises and Adventures and it gives you the opportunity to transfer points in from another member. That is where you can bulk up and get home resort priority at other resorts.


----------



## chalee94 (Apr 27, 2018)

bendadin said:


> It holds the extra amenities like cruises and Adventures...



75 pts gives you access to be able to pay cash for the members' cruise.  but it won't be near enough to pay for cruises or adventures by Disney with points - which is fine because those options are not a good value anyway...


----------



## bendadin (Apr 27, 2018)

chalee94 said:


> 75 pts gives you access to be able to pay cash for the members' cruise.  but it won't be near enough to pay for cruises or adventures by Disney with points - which is fine because those options are not a good value anyway...



While I agree that it isn't a good use of points, I have definitely found members who did use points for cruises as it was easier than renting them out.


----------



## Dean (Apr 27, 2018)

bendadin said:


> While I agree that it isn't a good use of points, I have definitely found members who did use points for cruises as it was easier than renting them out.


There are some special situations where there are lose or use points.  That's about the only time it's a reasonable option IMO.  A return historically of $6 to $7.5 per point, generally the return, is not a good plan when the points have been worth far more.  When AK cruises started up it was $10 per point, that's starting to get up to where the $$$ wise is reasonable.  I had one person say they got $18 on a repositioning cruise but I'm skeptical, at best they were likely comparing to rack rates.  But IMO the return is not the primary issue, the limitations and risk if one has to change or cancel is actually the primary risk.


----------

