# Looking to buy first timeshare....[Westin Ka'anapali]



## Doublej (Sep 17, 2012)

I am looking at buying a WKORV resale 2/2 EOY as my first timeshare.  We have stayed there twice and love it.  Is there anything I should be aware of? 

Any suggestions?

Anyone have an idea of what ROFR would be on a EOY island view 2/2?  I have seen some listed as cheap as $6500 but an agent I spoke with said to offer $8850 and have the seller pay closing.  Any thoughts?

Thanks for your help!

Justin


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## MOXJO7282 (Sep 17, 2012)

As a buyer the best market is ebay and I would say second is Redweek. I would start to monitor ebay and see what the market dictates. Look under "completed" auctions and see what that tells you.


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## DeniseM (Sep 17, 2012)

Are you flexible about when you travel to Maui, or do you need specific high season weeks, like school holidays?

If you are flexible, you can buy an Interval International trader, like Sheraton Desert Oasis for less than $1,000 all-in, and use it to trade into the Westin for about $1,100 per year - compared to a maintenance fee of about $2,200 a year.


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## Doublej (Sep 17, 2012)

We are very flexible.  We can pretty much go whenever we like.  Just want to take a "Westin caliber" vacation every year.  

I'll look into that option.


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## DeniseM (Sep 17, 2012)

Starwood deposits a lot of inventory in Interval International every year - so you can buy a far less expensive Starwood timeshare and use it to trade for the Westin, because all Starwood owners get first priority for Starwood trades.   By trading in, instead of owning, you can visit the Westin for about half the cost of owning there - and much lower upfront cost.  

The only thing is that the view will not be guaranteed - it will be assigned by the resort at check-in.   But since you were looking at buying an island view anyway - you could actually get a BETTER view by trading in, because you wouldn't be locked into an Island View.


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## Quadmaniac (Sep 17, 2012)

Doublej said:


> We are very flexible.  We can pretty much go whenever we like.  Just want to take a "Westin caliber" vacation every year.
> 
> I'll look into that option.





DeniseM said:


> Are you flexible about when you travel to Maui, or do you need specific high season weeks, like school holidays?
> 
> If you are flexible, you can buy an Interval International trader, like Sheraton Desert Oasis for less than $1,000 all-in, and use it to trade into the Westin for about $1,100 per year - compared to a maintenance fee of about $2,200 a year.



It can be even less if you lock off the Sheraton Desert Oasis 2br and get two trades. I just got two weeks at the Westin Maui in 2 br units for the two halves of my lockoff for next year. The total cost was about $1400 with lock off, II membership, exchange fees, etc. So $700 per week sure beats $2,200 MF for a single week. 

I just came back from there last week and I was lucky enough to snag an oceanview too. It is not guaranteed, but I put in my request early and they were able to accommodate my request  Will not happen all the time, but was lucky $700 well spent. It is interesting to note, we had to rent a 2 br for three days as we got there a few days early and it cost us $640 to rent in Kihei a 3.5 star condo rental before we could check into the Westin Sunday. $700 for a week at the Westin vs $640 for a 3 day rental vs $2200 MF.....hmmmmm

I can honestly say, this was one of the best purchases buying SDO and would take DeniseM's suggestion. Can't beat that deal!!!!


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## psuwalt (Sep 18, 2012)

*We own two Sheraton Vistanna Villages Timeshares...*

....and exchange them thru II to spend two weeks in Hawaii at the Westin Villas.  Actually, we are there right now.  It is considerably cheaper than owning a Starwood timeshare in Hawaii.


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## Purefct (Sep 25, 2012)

Doublej said:


> I am looking at buying a WKORV resale 2/2 EOY as my first timeshare.  We have stayed there twice and love it.  Is there anything I should be aware of?
> 
> Any suggestions?
> 
> ...



I've seen posts with the following info:
Starwood
- 05/2012 WMH annual Platinum exercised $5,000
- 06/2012 WMH annual Platinum exercised $5,500 
- 07/2012 WMH annual Platinum exercised $6,000
- 06/2012 WPORV rash of sales exercised. 
- 06/2012 WPORV EOY PASSED $8,500. Prior sales below $8,000 exercised
- 06/2012 WPORV EOY exercised $5k
- 07/2012 WKORV OF PASSED $32,000
- 06/2012 WKORVN two annual IV exercised each $12,000
- 09/2012 WKORVN OV exercised $6,000 
- 09/2012 WKORVN EOY OF exercised $6,801

I'd say maybe a bi annual at $8,800 might not be exercised BUT SVO might read the contract, subtract out the Seller closing costs and exercise at the net to seller rate...

PERSONALLY if you don't care about your view type why buy at WKORV/WKORVN?  Buy for less money at another mandatory resort where your annual maintenance is less as well.  The only thing you lose is reservations in Maui 8 or more months in advance.  While this could make a difference for availabilty in high demand periods, you are locked into an IV unit when making reservations 8 or more months in advance.  While making reservations less than 8 months in advance could offer a slight priority for an upgrade to OV unit if you own there ... it's not worth the additional annual and purchase cost.

I'm not certain which alternate resorts are better though.  Kierland platinum will cost more up front whereas a Sheraton Vistana Villages Bella or Key West phase (either platinum or two golds) might cost more annually - but either option will cost less to buy and less annually than a Westin Kaanapali.


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## Purefct (Sep 25, 2012)

I agree the II exchange method offers the best cost benefit per use but IMHO you have less availability/flexibility to choose from.  Certainly a great argument for the cost/risk/benefit - I do the same thing with Marriott.  But I really like the Star Options flexibility, short stays, and far more available dates internally than via exchange. And internal reservations receive priority over exchange for upgrades.  Comes down to cost vs perks.


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## Quadmaniac (Sep 25, 2012)

Purefct said:


> I agree the II exchange method offers the best cost benefit per use but IMHO you have less availability/flexibility to choose from.  Certainly a great argument for the cost/risk/benefit - I do the same thing with Marriott.  But I really like the Star Options flexibility, short stays, and far more available dates internally than via exchange. And internal reservations receive priority over exchange for upgrades.  Comes down to cost vs perks.



How much availability do you need ? Recent deposits had availability for just about every week except for Christmas/NY, spring break and about 5 weeks in the summer for WKORV. I currently have the last two weeks in Aug 2013 in 2br's booked from their last deposits, made a year in advance (better than the 8 month rule). I previously had one about 15 months in advance which I changed (booked in July for Oct 2013). I'm paying a total of $1400 for these two weeks. For $700 per week how can you lose ?

Does $8850 purchase price along with $2300 MF for 1 week every second year in a 2 br IV make sense compared to the purchase price of under $1K with $1400 MF for 2 weeks every year in a 2 br (IV-OF)  ? How much is flexibility are you gaining for that difference in price ? It better be pretty darn extreme for that amount.   I'll just enjoy my two weeks every year while you bask in your increased flexibility one week every two years IV:hysterical: :hysterical: :hysterical:


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## Purefct (Sep 25, 2012)

I'm missing something but ...

My comment was not a Kaanapali Star Options IV unit vs an alternate SVO weeks unit using II exchange, it was  an alternate SVO StarOptions unit vs an alternate SVO weeks unit so the purchase price difference is far less and possibly maintenance as well.  I did compare Kaanapali Star Options IV unit vs alternate SVO StarOptions unit ... but that isn't what you responded to.
I just logged into II and used an SVO Platinum 2BR unit to check availability now thru Oct 2013 and I only see units in May, Sep and Oct 2013 and yet when I call SVO I can get units in 2012 and a bit in early 2013 with Star Options. Granted I own in FL so I can't see past April thru SVO but the large amount of availability you claim exists in II I have never seen. 
While I recognize it's possible to use a studio or 1BR to get a 2BR unit, most people will not be able to achieve what you have.  II rules are very clear a 1BR will not secure a 2BR unless you are reserving in a last minute window or your 1BR has more trading power than the 2BR.  I know exceptions are made but most people trading into a high demand property like WKORV will not be able to get a 2BR using a 1BR deposit.  When I did so online just now, there were not any 1BR available and my Gold Plus 1BR was unable to secure the available 2BR units.


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## DeniseM (Sep 25, 2012)

Purefct said:


> I'm missing something but ...
> 
> My comment was not a Kaanapali Star Options IV unit vs an alternate SVO weeks unit using II exchange, it was  an alternate SVO StarOptions unit vs an alternate SVO weeks unit so the purchase price difference is far less and possibly maintenance as well.  I did compare Kaanapali Star Options IV unit vs alternate SVO StarOptions unit ... but that isn't what you responded to.
> I just logged into II and used an SVO Platinum 2BR unit to check availability now thru Oct 2013 and I only see units in May, Sep and Oct 2013 and yet when I call SVO I can get units in 2012 and a bit in early 2013 with Star Options. Granted I own in FL so I can't see past April thru SVO but the large amount of availability you claim exists in II I have never seen.





Have you looked at the Sightings forum?  There was a large bulk space banking at all 3 resorts not long ago - but those exchanges never last for long.  [I'm sorry - I just realized that you are a guest, and you must be a member to access that forum.]



> [*]While I recognize it's possible to use a studio or 1BR to get a 2BR unit, most people will not be able to achieve what you have.  II rules are very clear a 1BR will not secure a 2BR unless you are reserving in a last minute window or your 1BR has more trading power than the 2BR.  I know exceptions are made but most people trading into a high demand property like WKORV will not be able to get a 2BR using a 1BR deposit.  When I did so online just now, there were not any 1BR available and my Gold Plus 1BR was unable to secure the available 2BR units.




Not true - because of the Starwood to Starwood priority in II, it happens on a regular basis - months out from the check-in date, but you have to watch the deposits very carefully.

Also - was your unit actually "*designated for exchange*" AND did it have an *on-going request* in place?  If not - it had lower trading power.  Florida resorts also have lower trading power.

See the II FAQ at the top of the Starwood forum for all the details.


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## jerseygirl (Sep 25, 2012)

Guests can't see the sightings board ...


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## Quadmaniac (Sep 25, 2012)

Purefct said:


> I'm missing something but ...
> 
> My comment was not a Kaanapali Star Options IV unit vs an alternate SVO weeks unit using II exchange, it was  an alternate SVO StarOptions unit vs an alternate SVO weeks unit so the purchase price difference is far less and possibly maintenance as well.  I did compare Kaanapali Star Options IV unit vs alternate SVO StarOptions unit ... but that isn't what you responded to.
> I just logged into II and used an SVO Platinum 2BR unit to check availability now thru Oct 2013 and I only see units in May, Sep and Oct 2013 and yet when I call SVO I can get units in 2012 and a bit in early 2013 with Star Options. Granted I own in FL so I can't see past April thru SVO but the large amount of availability you claim exists in II I have never seen.
> While I recognize it's possible to use a studio or 1BR to get a 2BR unit, most people will not be able to achieve what you have.  II rules are very clear a 1BR will not secure a 2BR unless you are reserving in a last minute window or your 1BR has more trading power than the 2BR.  I know exceptions are made but most people trading into a high demand property like WKORV will not be able to get a 2BR using a 1BR deposit.  When I did so online just now, there were not any 1BR available and my Gold Plus 1BR was unable to secure the available 2BR units.



Ok if you are looking at WKV, from what I was told, it is about $13-15K + $1400 MF, so that does not compare much better vs. $1K + $1K MF. 

The availability was when the bulk deposits were first available. Of course as it is released, it is scooped up, so the availability now is not the same as what it was when it was first released. This was the second bulk deposit as in July, Starwood deposited WKORV/N

http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1334457&postcount=15
http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1355137&postcount=1

Currently with my SDO I see availability till just before Christmas 2013.

Anyone with an SDO 1 br L/O can achieve what I have for Maui. It is possible right now.


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## crf450x (Sep 25, 2012)

Quadmaniac,

Your comments are pushing me closer to making an SDO purchase when the right resale unit comes up for sale.  I see that you also own with Marriott as I do and have traded my studio for 2b/2b WKORV units in the past doing an instant exchange.

I know how to use my 3b/3b lock off with on-going deposit first requests on II to my advantage.  Such as putting in an on-going request using my studio lock off and requesting other Marriott Properties that only have 2b/2b units and have received trades into the Marriott Waiohai with my Studio that way.

My question for SDO is if it works the same way in II as the Marriott where you deposit the SDO 1b/1b and lock off and then put in on ongoing request for WKORV?  I would presume that when you put in the request you can only request an equal SIZE unit, therefore the studio SDO can only get a studio WKORV and the 1b/1b can only get a 1b/1b WKORV.  I presume you were able to get the two separate 2b/2b WKORV units with your lock off SDO units by seeing them during on line instant exchange?  I figure SDO owners and for that matter all SVO owners can see WKORV before non SVO Owners.

From my understanding after all of the ongoing requests get filled the available WKORV units will get moved to the on going exchange pool for SVO owners then after a period of time (?) it will be available for all to see, or at least those that have decent units which I presume Marriott Units qualify for.

Another thing I need some clarification on is if SDO can be traded internally outside of II to WKORV.  Been reading about mandatory and non mandatory and staroption points and not quite sure if SDO comes with points.  

Sorry for all of the newbie questions, been reading the forums for some time but just recently signed up to post.  So much to learn and so many great memories to gain with my families past and future travel.

This post makes me think hard about SDO because when we cant get the trade into WKORV we want with our Marriott unit, we rent from a multi week owner for around $3K.  This was reasonable for us considering the MF at WKORV with the buy in, both resale and developer costs.  But the more I read, the more SDO sounds like the way to get into WKORV.  Any other SVO properties make sense to use as a trader for WKORV?


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## DeniseM (Sep 25, 2012)

crf450x said:


> Quadmaniac,
> 
> Your comments are pushing me closer to making an SDO purchase when the right resale unit comes up for sale.  I see that you also own with Marriott as I do and have traded my studio for 2b/2b WKORV units in the past doing an instant exchange.
> 
> ...



SDO consists of 2 one-bedroom units - no studios.  Yes - ongoing requests must be for the same size unit.



> I presume you were able to get the two separate 2b/2b WKORV units with your lock off SDO units by seeing them during on line instant exchange?



Correct  



> I figure SDO owners and for that matter all SVO owners can see WKORV before non SVO Owners.


The priority period is supposed to be 30 days.



> From my understanding is after all of the ongoing requests get filled the available WKORV units will get moved to the on going exchange pool for SVO owners then after a period of time (?) it will be available for all to see, or at least those that have decent units which I apresume Marriott Units qualify for.


  30 days also



> Another thing I need some clarification on is if SDO can be traded internally outside of II to WKORV.  Been reading about mandatory and non mandatory and staroption points and not quite sure if SDO comes with points.


  It's voluntary - no Staroptions.  



> Sorry for all of the newbie questions, been reading the forums for some time but just recently signed up to post.  So much to learn and so many great memories to gain with my families past and future travel.
> 
> This post makes me think hard about SDO because when we cant get the trade into WKORV we want with our Marriott unit, we rent from a multi week owner for around $3K.  This was reasonable for us considering the MF at WKORV with the buy in, both resale and developer costs.  But the more I read, the more SDO sounds like the way to get into WKORV.  Any other SVO properties make sense to use as a trader for WKORV?



Sheraton Broadway Plantation, but SDO has a little better trading power.

See the Starwood and II FAQ for all the details.


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## crf450x (Sep 26, 2012)

DeniseM said:


> SDO consists of 2 one-bedroom units - no studios.  Yes - ongoing requests must be for the same size unit.



Hi Denise,

You are definitely the guru for all things Starwood and I appreciate your feedback.  I apologize in advance for all of the novice questions but am excited to be a part of this community.

So a 2b/2b SDO can be deposited as TWO SEPERATE 1b/1b unit not a 1b/1b and Studio?  That is very interesting.  Although we are only a family of 4 with our children early elementary age, we have enjoyed having 2b/2b units so the kids could have their own room the past few years now.  However, if we HAD TO, we could live with a 1b/1b at WKORV for two straight weeks for our locked off SDO...

Is this unrealistic?


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## DeniseM (Sep 26, 2012)

crf450x said:


> Hi Denise,
> 
> You are definitely the guru for all things Starwood and I appreciate your feedback.  I apologize in advance for all of the novice questions but am excited to be a part of this community.
> 
> ...



Yes:  It deposits as 2 one-bedrooms.  Not unrealistic at all, as long as you aren't shooting for school holiday weeks.  But, summer is doable if you request the whole summer.  Have you had a chance to look at the stickies at the top of the forum.  It can be overwhelming at first, but it can help you get up to speed.


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## Quadmaniac (Sep 26, 2012)

crf450x said:


> Hi Denise,
> 
> You are definitely the guru for all things Starwood and I appreciate your feedback.  I apologize in advance for all of the novice questions but am excited to be a part of this community.
> 
> ...



I would probably bet you won't have to "suffer" in a 1 BR and would mostly like find 2 BR units if you plan ahead and deposit early.


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## Doublej (Sep 26, 2012)

So I think I've got the wife talked into SDO instead of buyin at WKOFV.  She was a little skeptical that you could trade a WKOFV for SDO since it's not the same cost.  So what is the best one to buy?  Is the trading power greater with every year vs. every other year?  My wife can only get 1 week off a year so I was thinking about getting a 2bd eoy?  Is that a bad idea?  Any suggestions?

Sorry for all the NOOB questions....


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## DeniseM (Sep 26, 2012)

Doublej said:


> So I think I've got the wife talked into SDO instead of buyin at WKOFV.  She was a little skeptical that you could trade a WKOFV for SDO since it's not the same cost.  So what is the best one to buy?  Is the trading power greater with every year vs. every other year?  My wife can only get 1 week off a year so I was thinking about getting a 2bd eoy?  Is that a bad idea?  Any suggestions?
> 
> Sorry for all the NOOB questions....



My first choice would be a small, 1 bdm., every year, Plat - that will be the most economical trader.  You might have to look for awhile.


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## Quadmaniac (Sep 26, 2012)

DeniseM said:


> My first choice would be a small, 1 bdm., every year, Plat - that will be the most economical trader.  You might have to look for awhile.



Just got one on eBay for $224 plus about $225 in closing fees about two weeks ago


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## Beefnot (Sep 26, 2012)

Quadmaniac said:


> Just got one on eBay for $224 plus about $225 in closing fees about two weeks ago



Beat me to it. Link


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## Beefnot (Sep 26, 2012)

Quadmaniac said:


> Just got one on eBay for $224 plus about $225 in closing fees about two weeks ago



Oh, you are the one who got it? I had that on my watch list and didn't pull the trigger. Though I am glad, what with the looming special assessment coming.


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## hypnotiq (Sep 26, 2012)

It was on my list too but I forgot to come back.

Is there a diff in trade power between the small 1bd and the large 1bd?


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## Quadmaniac (Sep 26, 2012)

Beefnot said:


> Oh, you are the one who got it? I had that on my watch list and didn't pull the trigger. Though I am glad, what with the looming special assessment coming.



Ummm yep  that was me. I was going to keep it for myself, but since I recently enlightened my brother about the power of internal priority, I gave it to him to close on. He has had his TSs for 8 years and convinced me to get my first one 10 months ago. Since then, thanks to all the great input from TUG users (and especially the always helpful and wise, DeniseM) I am introducing him to better TS options than what he started with.

So if it makes anyone feel better, it went to a good cause


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## DeniseM (Sep 26, 2012)

hypnotiq said:


> It was on my list too but I forgot to come back.
> 
> Is there a diff in trade power between the small 1bd and the large 1bd?



If there is, it's tiny.


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## crf450x (Sep 26, 2012)

Quadmaniac said:


> I would probably bet you won't have to "suffer" in a 1 BR and would mostly like find 2 BR units if you plan ahead and deposit early.



Quadmaniac, do you put in an on going request using your SDO 2b/2b that locks off into two separate 1b/1b units on II or do daily searches on II for an instant exchange to find the 2b/2b WKORV?  Also, lets say you put in an ongoing request for your two separate 1b/1b SDO units and you get the trade  for one of the units into a WKROV 1b/1b unit then on a later date you are searching for instant exchanges and a WKORV 2b/2b pops up.  Since the on going request for the SDO 1b/1b wont trade up automatically to the WKORV 2b/2b unit, can you then call II and switch out your SDO 1b/1b that was previously traded for the WKORV 1b/1b into the now available WKORV 2b/2b?


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## DeniseM (Sep 26, 2012)

I'm not Quadmaniac, but I'd be happy to add my 2 cents:



crf450x said:


> Quadmaniac, do you put in an on going request using your SDO 2b/2b that locks off into two separate 1b/1b units on II or do daily searches on II for an instant exchange to find the 2b/2b WKORV?



If you want to trade up for a 2 bdm., the best strategy is to deposit your week(s), and put in an ongoing request for an impossible exchange (Christmas/New Years at WKORV for example) and then search daily for a 2 bdm. online exchange.  The reason for this is that with Starwood, a week that is actually *deposited* and has an *on-going request* in place has more trading power, than one that doesn't.  You put in an "impossible request" because you don't actually want to get it - you are holding out for a 2 bdm.  When you make the instant online trade, the exchange fee you paid for the on-going request will automatically transfer to the exchange.



> Also, lets say you put in an ongoing request for your two separate 1b/1b SDO units and you get the trade  for one of the units into a WKROV 1b/1b unit then on a later date you are searching for instant exchanges and a WKORV 2b/2b pops up.  Since the on going request for the SDO 1b/1b wont trade up automatically to the WKORV 2b/2b unit, can you then call II and switch out your SDO 1b/1b that was previously traded for the WKORV 1b/1b into the now available WKORV 2b/2b?



Yes - but you will have to pay a 2nd exchange fee, so it's better to use the first strategy.

However, the most reliable way to get a 2 bdm. is to use your 2 bdm. deposit, and put in an on-going request for a 2 bdm., because on-going requests are filled FIRST.

See the II FAQ for all the details.


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## hypnotiq (Sep 26, 2012)

Can the small 1b side of SDO get the 1b side of WKORV or is that considered trading up and it can only get the studio?


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## Beefnot (Sep 26, 2012)

hypnotiq said:


> Can the small 1b side of SDO get the 1b side of WKORV or is that considered trading up and it can only get the studio?



1 bedrooms are 1 bedrooms. So no, it is not considered trading up.


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## crf450x (Sep 26, 2012)

DeniseM,  clear and concise answers as usual.  I just read through the stickys (boy am I spending too much time on here) and it did clear up several other questions I had but has now raised a few others.

What is surprising to me is finding 2b units when doing instant online exchange searching.  To speak for myself, I always lock off my Marriott 3b/3b unit when I deposit to II and I would have thought most WKORV owners would lock off their 2b/2b to get two seperate weeks of travel to deposit in II, especially considering that WKORV is at the top of the food chain, or at least near it.  Therefore I presume the majority of WKORV deposits are for 1b/1b and studio units.  Then for the 1st 30 days it goes to fill Starwood ongoing requests then the next 30 days to other ongoing requests that somehow "meet" the trading requirements (which I know my Marriott qualifies for from previous exchanges) then to the instant online exchange pool for those with high enough trading power, which I believe would be other Marriott timeshare owners.

Where do the WKORV 2b/2b units come from?  Do WKORV owners actually deposit their full units quite regularly rather than lock them off?  I have also read somewhere here about "BULK" deposits from Starwood.  When they do these "Bulk" deposits are they all of full 2b/2b units?

The other surprising fact for us is that we have been able to exchange our Marriott TS for the Marriott Ko Olina and Waiohai many times and seen the other Marriott Kauai resorts pop up often, but rarely do we find suitable availability at the Marriott Maui Ocean Club.  We have seen the WKORV pop up more than the MOC, interestingly.  After touring the grounds of the MOC and having been to WKORV many times now, the WKORV seems like a better fit for us and more spacious, although I would definitely snap up a MOC the next time I see it come up.  But as of the past few years I have been making ongoing requests, I have never gotten an MOC exchange.


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## DeniseM (Sep 26, 2012)

crf450x said:


> DeniseM,  clear and concise answers as usual.  I just read through the stickys (boy am I spending too much time on here) and it did clear up several other questions I had but has now raised a few others.
> 
> What is surprising to me is finding 2b units when doing instant online exchange searching.  To speak for myself, I always lock off my Marriott 3b/3b unit when I deposit to II and I would have thought most WKORV owners would lock off their 2b/2b to get two seperate weeks of travel to deposit in II, especially considering that WKORV is at the top of the food chain, or at least near it.  Therefore I presume the majority of WKORV deposits are for 1b/1b and studio units.  Then for the 1st 30 days it goes to fill Starwood ongoing requests then the next 30 days to other ongoing requests that somehow "meet" the trading requirements (which I know my Marriott qualifies for from previous exchanges) then to the instant online exchange pool for those with high enough trading power, which I believe would be other Marriott timeshare owners.
> 
> Where do the WKORV 2b/2b units come from?  Do WKORV owners actually deposit their full units quite regularly rather than lock them off?  I have also read somewhere here about "BULK" deposits from Starwood.  When they do these "Bulk" deposits are they all of full 2b/2b units?



Owners have no control over what is deposited.  You just tell Starwood that you want to "designate your week for exchange" and they have total control over it.  The owner uses the predetermined trading value of their week - 2 bdm., Side A, or Side B, regardless of what Starwood does - in fact, you will have no idea what Starwood does with your week - that's all done behind the scenes.  Then at some point, the II and Starwood bean counters settle up, and Starwood does a bulk space banking with II.


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## crf450x (Sep 26, 2012)

DeniseM said:


> Owners have no control over what is deposited.  You just tell Starwood that you want to "designate your week for exchange" and they have total control over it.  The owner uses the predetermined trading value of their week - 2 bdm., Side A, or Side B, regardless of what Starwood does - in fact, you will have no idea what Starwood does with your week - that's all done behind the scenes.  Then at some point, the II and Starwood bean counters settle up, and Starwood does a bulk space banking with II.



This is a concept I do not understand.  For example and as I am sure you are aware but others may not, exactly one year before I want to book my week for the next use year I go online to the MVCI website and book my two separate weeks for my one unit that I lock off.  I always base that week on the TDI on II for the highest week in my season.

If you tell Starwood to "designate your week for Exchange" how do you get the TWO Separate 1b/1b units to show up for the ONE 2b/2b SDO unit in II?   When you go to the instant online exchange on II do you have a choice of the two separate 1b SDO units and can then do an ongoing deposit first request for the two separate 1b SDO units?  Do you not book an exact travel week for the two separate 1b sides of SDO?  Does it show up as Side A and Side B which equals 1b/1b each side?

When I go to my II account, I see the various Weeks I have deposited to II from Marriott and then I choose if I want to search with my 2b/2b unit or my studio unit.  I could allow Marriott to deposit my week and have them pick the week but I always pick the weeks that are the highest based on II's TDI table.


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## crf450x (Sep 26, 2012)

*RCI or II*

Looking at the available SDO on ebay right now all but one state that they exchange with RCI.  Does it exchange in both RCI and II?  If it exchanges in RCI as well is there a chance it can trade to DVC Aulani?


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## DeniseM (Sep 26, 2012)

crf450x said:


> This is a concept I do not understand.  For example and as I am sure you are aware but others may not, exactly one year before I want to book my week for the next use year I go online to the MVCI website and book my two separate weeks for my one unit that I lock off.  I always base that week on the TDI on II for the highest week in my season.
> 
> If you tell Starwood to "designate your week for Exchange" how do you get the TWO Separate 1b/1b units to show up for the ONE 2b/2b SDO unit in II?


  It happens automatically - if you own a 2 bdm., every year there will be a "place holder" in your Acct. that shows the 2 bdm., side A, and side B.  You then choose what to use.



> When you go to the instant online exchange on II do you have a choice of the two separate 1b SDO units and can then do an ongoing deposit first request for the two separate 1b SDO units?



Yes - you would do 2 separate on-going requests and pay 2 separate exchange fees.



> Do you not book an exact travel week for the two separate 1b sides of SDO?



You are not allowed to make a reservation and deposit it - Starwood has 100% control of deposits - you use the predetermined trading power of your resort/season/unit size - it's automatic.



> Does it show up as Side A and Side B which equals 1b/1b each side?


  Every year a place holder will be in your Acct. that shows the 2 bdm., Side A, and Side B - no matter what you do.  Even if you don't deposit it - the place holder will be there.  That's what you use to trade.



> When I go to my II account, I see the various Weeks I have deposited to II from Marriott and then I choose if I want to search with my 2b/2b unit or my studio unit.  I could allow Marriott to deposit my week and have them pick the week but I always pick the weeks that are the highest based on II's TDI table.



We used to be able to do that with II deposits, but in 2009, Starwood took that right away from owners and installed the current system.  The trading power is still quite good, but not as good as being able to deposit a specific holiday week.


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## DeniseM (Sep 26, 2012)

crf450x said:


> Looking at the available SDO on ebay right now all but one state that they exchange with RCI.  Does it exchange in both RCI and II?  If it exchanges in RCI as well is there a chance it can trade to DVC Aulani?



You would not get enough TPU (points) for Aulani in RCI.

It doesn't have the same trading power in RCI - the main reason to buy a Starwood trader is for the Starwood to Starwood priority in II.  I would not buy it for an RCI trader because there is no priority, and the TPU points are mediocre.  I use a non-Starwood trader in RCI, with about twice the TPU.  (Trading Power Units)


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## DavidnRobin (Sep 26, 2012)

on another note...

after reading the SDO thread - 
http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=179310
- people considering buying a resale week (VOI) at a Voluntary SVO resort to get Starwood II preference for making high-ROI trades into WKORV/N should consider overall value in their decision.

What is becoming apparent (to me at least) is that these V-VOIs with Silver/Gold weeks of little to negative value coupled with increases in MFs due to reserve replenishment or Special Assessments are creating financial HOA problems.  This negative value is in the form of these Owners paying the same proportion of MF increases in MFs and SAs (due to CCRs) that make them walk-away from the obligations of their weeks as it becomes more and more expensive - and putting a burden on the HOA.  As a result, the VOIs with value (such as SDO Plat) are at risk of having a severe drop in future value as the HOA attempts to stay afloat.

Whereas, WKORV/N has essentially only one season (wks 1-50) where the Owners share proportionally (mostly) in MFs at a desirable resort as consistently reported here (and my personal opinion) versus trying to maximixe ROI via II exchanging.

My point is... be carefull in buying resale V-VOIs that are currently considered 'valuable' as the future value may decrease dramatically due to this effect.

Sometimes it is better to buy where you want to go (hmmm.... where have I heard that before?) even if it costs more.

Before I get slammed by people with vested interest in SDO - this is my opinion and viewpoint about buying resale WKORV/N - as a result of the 'popular' opinion that seems at the core of the reponses to the OP (and not trying to go jarta on you...)


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## LisaRex (Sep 26, 2012)

It is also, I assume, going to be more difficult for everyone to exchange into WKORV-N/HRA/WSJ once folks who never had sufficient SOs to get a 2-bdrm platinum have had an opportunity to bank SOs for several years.  I can imagine there is a large percentage of SVNers who don't ever deposit into II, and don't realize that you can exchange a 1 bdrm for a 2 bdrm if you're diligent.


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## Quadmaniac (Sep 26, 2012)

DavidnRobin said:


> on another note...
> 
> after reading the SDO thread -
> http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=179310
> ...



Anything is possible, as in life nothing is forever, but IF and when the value drops off then people will automatically get rid of it when necessary. When you are getting it for $1K or less, the downside is very very minimal compared to buying something for $50-75K with $2300 MF for Maui or even on resale for $12-20K. I can walk away from $1K and not get bent out of shape after having great trades i have received from it. Worst case I offer it for free with a year's usage.

At this point I think it is well worth the "risk' even if the MF goes up to $1500, it would still be a pretty decent deal owning SDO. Each year that goes by that $12-20K is still in my bank and putting out $1400 all in with trading fees for two weeks is much different from $4600 for two weeks MF in Maui. $3200 per year is a huge difference and after 5 years, I would have saved enough to buy WKORV if necessary with the $16K I saved. But again, that is only my opinion on it from an economic standpoint. 

I don't think any timeshare is immune from a decrease in value, the recent drop in the market is proof of that, no one is safe.

I think it is a bit too early to panicking and jumping ship when we don't know what is even going to happen. The sky is not falling....


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## DavidnRobin (Sep 26, 2012)

Quadmaniac said:


> Anything is possible, as in life nothing is forever, but IF and when the value drops off then people will automatically get rid of it when necessary. When you are getting it for $1K or less, the downside is very very minimal compared to buying something for $50-75K with $2300 MF for Maui or even on resale for $12-20K. I can walk away from $1K and not get bent out of shape after having great trades i have received from it. Worst case I offer it for free with a year's usage.
> 
> At this point I think it is well worth the "risk' even if the MF goes up to $1500, it would still be a pretty decent deal owning SDO. Each year that goes by that $12-20K is still in my bank and putting out $1400 all in with trading fees for two weeks is much different from $4600 for two weeks MF in Maui. $3200 per year is a huge difference and after 5 years, I would have saved enough to buy WKORV if necessary with the $16K I saved. But again, that is only my opinion on it from an economic standpoint.
> 
> ...



That was the point - having to walk away and leaving the burden to the HOA and therefore the owners left holding the bag.  'Value' is not just the upfront cost - it is the long term cost as well (as well as resale value and rentability).  As mentioned - this is not only true with SDO, but other SVO VOIs that have low seasons where the MFs become too much to bare and drop out causing a resulting increase in MFs (and the cycle continues).  I prefer to own WKORV directly (as I also own OF) - and the OP, when bringing up buying resale WKORV, (as typical) will get baraged here on TUG with buying SDO instead and use II to get into WKORV/N (this occurs over and over).  It does not appear that all is well and rosy with SDO - so caution should be exercised when considering buying SDO - and not if one already owns. In already owning it is important to control costs and keeping value in the resort   (as DM is trying to do...).  I was trying to give a perspective that no one else was giving the OP because people tend to defend their decisions for TS ownership as it is human nature (me included...).

The main issue that exists is - as the MFs get out of control - less people will be willing to hold onto their low season weeks, and that can creep up to those holding what are considered premium weeks. (what is the HOA planning on doing with these unwanted weeks that cannot even be given away?)

Yes, WKORV/N costs more to buy and MFs are more expensive, but it will most likely keep the desirability factor because as pointed out - people want to stay at WKORV/N and not SDO.  I hope it all works out - but the tiered season system has a basic flaw when the cost to maintain/own becomes a burden.


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## jarta (Sep 26, 2012)

David,   ...   Sometimes an MF increase in burden has nothing to do with walking away.  Economic circumstances change for owners who have little money invested.  Boredom can set in for owners who have little money invested.

If you buy cheap somewhere to trade elsewere expensive and get bored, or circumstances change, or MFs go up at the cheap resort, it's easy to just walk away and let the other owners who care about and have loyalty to the home resort pick up the difference.  Those other owners are being played for patsies.

It's not just a Starwood problem.  All timeshare resorts suffer from walking away from MFs to one extent or another.  

I think the problem is how to develop or force home resort loyalty or vacations.  I admit I have no real definitive answers but I think resorts will have to find a way to make owners come to their home resort more than occasionally.  I realize it is heretical but perhaps it could start with SVN and II trading away from the home resort being limited to every other year of available use.  Salty


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## Quadmaniac (Sep 26, 2012)

DavidnRobin said:


> That was the point - having to walk away and leaving the burden to the HOA and therefore the owners left holding the bag.





Quadmaniac said:


> I can walk away from $1K and not get bent out of shape after having great trades i have received from it. Worst case I offer it for free with a year's usage.



I think there is a big difference between walking away from $1K and walking away from a TS. No one is suggesting that anyone should walk away from their obligations. My point was that if I lost the $1000 I paid for it, no big deal and even if I had to pay 1 year's usage to give it away later, I am good with that. That is my "cost". 



DavidnRobin said:


> As mentioned - this is not only true with SDO, but other SVO VOIs that have low seasons where the MFs become too much to bare and drop out causing a resulting increase in MFs (and the cycle continues)



People walking away from the TS has nothing to do with SDO specifically, but more do to people either not able to afford the MF or not wanting the obligation of a TS. Every TS has deliquent owners and foreclosed deeds. Is it possible that SDO may have a high number ? Possible. We don't know what other TS defaults there are in other properties. Even WKORV/N has defaults especially with the high MF. Is it really as simple as SDO is in need of an update, so many people don't want to go there as a result default on their MF ? 



DavidnRobin said:


> 'Value' is not just the upfront cost - it is the long term cost as well (as well as resale value and rentability).



This has been discussed that the long term cost is the MF, which is vastly lower. At no time have I ever bought a TS for its rentability as most can not be rented for the MF. WKORV/N is a different beast and you might be able to get $3000-3500, but most are buying it for their personal use. Some may be renting it. Let's look at parallel scenario's

_WKORV resale, $15K, MF $2300 (assume no MF increase) for 10 yrs
Total Cost $15K+23K = $38K
Sold for $12K 10 yrs later, so net cost $26K for 10 wks

SDO resale $1K, MF $1K + plus $400 in trading fees/II member fees for 10 yrs
Total Cost $1K + $14K= $15K
Sold for $0 plus free year's usage (-$1K), so net cost $16K for 20 wks_

The difference is even greater when you take into account the WKORV purchase gives you one week if you are using it, whereas the SDO as a pure trader is getting two weeks. You would need 2 WKORV or net $52K to get usage as SDO as a trader. Or using it as a trader like SDO to trade back into WKORV

_WKORV resale, $15K, MF $2300 + plus $400 in trading fees/II member fees for 10 yrs
Total Cost $15K+27K = $42K
Sold for $12K 10 yrs later, so net cost $30K for 20 wks_

or

_WKORV resale, $15K, MF $2300 for 10 yrs, rent 5 yrs out for $3500
Total Cost $15K+23K - 17.5K= $20.5K
Sold for $12K 10 yrs later, so net cost $8.5K for 5 weeks usage_

In either analysis, it is doesn't add up for me. Would I like to own WKORV ? For sure in a minute, but the fees to get the practically the same usage is not worth it to me at this point. If you have OF/OV then you might get better views than I would get sometimes, but sometimes I would get the same with my trades (knowing it is not guaranteed)



DavidnRobin said:


> It does not appear that all is well and rosy with SDO - so caution should be exercised when considering buying SDO -


 It is not as if SDO is ready to go belly up, they're looking to renovate which may mean a 30% increase over 3 years. Could they possible switch management companies but there isn't any real talk of that in board meetings. It has been suggested here only.



DavidnRobin said:


> The main issue that exists is - as the MFs get out of control - less people will be willing to hold onto their low season weeks, and that can creep up to those holding what are considered premium weeks. (what is the HOA planning on doing with these unwanted weeks that cannot even be given away?)



I don't think it has to do with low season or not and more to do with finances and their lifestyle. I would agree that defaults of lower seasons will be harder to resell. But again, what HOA does not have this problem ? 



DavidnRobin said:


> Yes, WKORV/N costs more to buy and MFs are more expensive, but it will most likely keep the desirability factor because as pointed out - people want to stay at WKORV/N and not SDO.  I hope it all works out - but the tiered season system has a basic flaw when the cost to maintain/own becomes a burden.



No one is debating its greater desirability factor, by far Maui is more desirable than Scottsdale. But many have said, they use SDO *just for trading*, so as long someone *wants SDO, they will pay for the MF*. Personally I don't care what it looks like as long as it has Starwood priority and trades well. If I pay my MF, does it matter if personally use it or not ? If everyone pays their MF at WKORV, does it matter if owners personally use it or not ? Does it matter if anyone uses any timeshare as long as the MF are paid for so the facility can keep operating ?


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## Quadmaniac (Sep 26, 2012)

jarta said:


> David,   ...   Sometimes an MF increase in burden has nothing to do with walking away.  Economic circumstances change for owners who have little money invested.  Boredom can set in for owners who have little money invested.
> 
> If you buy cheap somewhere to trade elsewere expensive and get bored, or circumstances change, or MFs go up at the cheap resort, it's easy to just walk away and let the other owners who care about and have loyalty to the home resort pick up the difference.  Those other owners are being played for patsies.
> 
> ...



I don't think it is fair to necessarily say that someone with less of a financial commitment will more readily walk away. I think that is just simplistic thinking. Even though I purchased for cheap, even if the fees jumped, I would honor my obligations, that is personal *INTEGRITY*. The problem is that integrity is not what it used to be. Just as marriages are not as sacred in my generation as my parents and grandparents generations.

If I have paid for any item, no one has a right to tell me I MUST use it. It is my perogative to use it or trade it. If I paid for it, I have the right to whatever I want with it. That is the same as saying if you marry someone, that's it, you're there for life. 

I can appreciate you have spent considerable amounts purchasing your timeshares and it bothers you to no end that someone with a cheapo SDO can trade into YOUR resort that you paid handsomely for. But that's life, gotta deal with it. We all choose to spend our money differently.


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## DavidnRobin (Sep 27, 2012)

Good luck to you - I have no horse in this race, or need back-forth on a basic concept or human nature or ethics.  Value takes many forms - not all are monetary. If costs become unbearable and/or value becomes zero/negative with no gain in sight - people will walk away because they have nothing left to lose.  I would, and suspect anyone with sensible reasoning would.


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## Beefnot (Sep 27, 2012)

DavidnRobin said:


> Value takes many forms - not all are monetary.



Very true, value need not be monetary...as long as one can afford to ignore it.


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## jarta (Sep 27, 2012)

Quadmaniac said:


> *I don't think it is fair to necessarily say that someone with less of a financial commitment will more readily walk away*. I think that is just simplistic thinking. Even though I purchased for cheap, even if the fees jumped, I would honor my obligations, that is personal *INTEGRITY*. The problem is that integrity is not what it used to be. Just as marriages are not as sacred in my generation as my parents and grandparents generations.
> 
> If I have paid for any item, no one has a right to tell me I MUST use it. It is my perogative to use it or trade it. If I paid for it, I have the right to whatever I want with it. That is the same as saying if you marry someone, that's it, you're there for life.
> 
> I can appreciate you have spent considerable amounts purchasing your timeshares and it bothers you to no end that someone with a cheapo SDO can trade into YOUR resort that you paid handsomely for. But that's life, gotta deal with it. We all choose to spend our money differently.



How do you square the tenor of the above post with the tenor of your earlier post on this thread found below?   Salty



> When you are getting it for $1K or less, the downside is very very minimal compared to buying something for $50-75K with $2300 MF for Maui or even on resale for $12-20K. *I can walk away from $1K and not get bent out of shape* after having great trades i have received from it. Worst case I offer it for free with a year's usage.


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## Quadmaniac (Sep 27, 2012)

jarta said:


> How do you square the tenor of the above post with the tenor of your earlier post on this thread found below?   Salty



Read the reply to David. If I lose a $1000 on a poor purchase, I can give it away for free, that at no time says I would stick HOA with the bill but not finding it a new home. We're talking about getting rid of a poor performer by giving it away versus stiffing HOA with the MF. Big difference in my mind.


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## jarta (Sep 27, 2012)

Quadmaniac said:


> Read the reply to David. If I lose a $1000 on a poor purchase, I can give it away for free, that at no time says I would stick HOA with the bill but not finding it a new home. We're talking about getting rid of a poor performer by giving it away versus stiffing HOA with the MF. Big difference in my mind.



My point was that if people have less at stake, they are more likely to walk away.  You disagreed with that premise.  I pointed out a prior post where you said you had only $1,000 invested so you would find it easy to walk away from that size of investment.

You would walk away from a $1,000 investment but you would pay the the MFs first.  Others might not be so honorable.  We certainly have seen a lot of unpaid MFs where people walk away because they know chasing them by a resort remote from where they live is practically impossible.  (Hypothetical example: an Arizona resort like SDO chasing a Canadian like you for the the less than $1,000 annual MF at SDO.)

What I am saying here is neither an attack on you personally nor an attack on Canadians in general.  I'm just illustrating that when there is little at stake there is a greater willingness to walk away - be it from a small purchase or a small annual MF - or both.  In timesharing, distance does not necessarily make the heart grow fonder.  I really think that's true if you buy merely to trade elsewhere.

Your response to my proposing that the necessary loyalty to home resorts might be improved by requiring owner attendance every other use period, was just uninformed flaming.  The deed gives a right to the owner to use the property annually or semi-annually.  Terms of use are subject to rules and regulations adopted by the board or the owners by vote (depending on whether the declaration reserves to the owners or delegates to the board the making of rules and regulations).  

There are condo associations that limit all manners of uses of the property, including renting of condos, for the good of the others using the condo.  Requiring a certain percentage of use by the owner seems similar to me.  It would be a definite change.  But, there is a definite problem in timesharing that needs to be addressed.

In the end, all a timeshare deed grants the owner is a percentage ownership in a piece of real estate and a right to use the real estate in the week (fixed) or season (float) named in the deed.  Internal trading and external trading are not guaranteed by the deed.  They are generally not guaranteed in the recorded declaration for the property.  Deeds cannot be changed.  Declarations can be changed.     Salty


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## Fredm (Sep 27, 2012)

jarta said:


> There are condo associations that limit all manners of uses of the property, including renting of condos, for the good of the others using the condo.  *Requiring a certain percentage of use by the owner seems similar to me.  *It would be a definite change.  But, there is a definite problem in timesharing that needs to be addressed.



This is not a far-fetched concept.

While not the same thing, RCI imposes a 1 in 4 rule for Sheraton (Hilton and other) resorts.
Affected RCI exchangers cannot exchange into the same resort more than 1 year in 4.

I realize this is a restriction imposed by the clearing house side of the equation, but it is with the agreement of the affiliated resort system. 

Thus far, I.I. has no such restriction. But, who knows what tomorrow will bring. 

IF I.I. were to implement a similar scheme (with the agreement of the affilited resort system), those who bought SDO, for example, to regularly trade into WKORV would have to do something else.

My point is rules already exist to restrict certain types of exchange activity.
Nothing prevents an adoption/expansion of them. 

The $64 question is what would such expanded restrictions have on the delinquency rates at affected resorts? 
The law of unintended consequences may kick in. 
Rather than encouraging home resort occupancy, restricting use options may just give owners one less reason to keep paying their fees.


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## PamMo (Sep 27, 2012)

I'm a proponent of buying at the resort where you want to vacation, but I understand the chorus of buying the least expensive VOI to use for trading, when it has worked out so well in the past. Active TUG members make up a miniscule percentage of timeshare owners, but I would wager that they are the savviest timeshare owners out there. Splitting up an inexpensive 2BR SDO unit and trading through Interval has enabled many Tuggers to spend 2 weeks in 2BR villas in Hawaii, or snag coveted weeks in Harborside. It's been a brilliant move for Tuggers watching the sightings board - what's not to love about that? Although I own five SVN VOI's (WKORVx1, WKORVNx2, HRAx2), I've been sorely tempted to buy at SDO solely for trading, but I have a hard time making that committment to a resort I would never go to.

I think the decision to buy at SDO is based on expectations (just like any timeshare purchase). When people hear how easy it is to "trade up" in this forum, it seems like a no brainer. I bought at the resorts we want to vacation because I need to choose the weeks and size units that will work out best for my family (as an owner, I always get first dibs), I use FF miles for flights so need to plan well ahead of travel dates, and view is important to me. Those are not everyone else's concerns. Did/do I pay more for our timeshares than if I bought a "trader"? Absolutely. But knowing I can get just what I need every year is definitely worth it to me. Others are much more flexible in their style of travel, and a unit deposited in II works fine for them.

I would like to add that my concern is that the upside of buying a "cheap" trader is always stressed on this board. I think it should be equally emphasized that the easy, great trades are certainly possible, but they are not guaranteed. Starwood has changed the way deposits are made in the exchange companies, and added StarOption banking for owners in SVN. I think they will continue to tweak their system to generate more income, and increase direct sales at the resorts. Interval and RCI changes just add more to the mix.


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## Beefnot (Sep 27, 2012)

Fredm said:


> This is not a far-fetched concept.
> 
> While not the same thing, RCI imposes a 1 in 4 rule for Sheraton (Hilton and other) resorts.
> Affected RCI exchangers cannot exchange into the same resort more than 1 year in 4.
> ...



The law of unintended consequences could definitely kick in.  I own exclusively to trade, in locations that I will never visit or would scarcely visit.  The moment my HOA instituted rules limiting my ability to exchange would be the moment I am looking to dispose of it.  And if I couldn't dispose of the unit, I would seriously consider disposing of the MFs by defaulting.  Say what you will about integrity or personal responsibility, but this is business not personal.


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## Quadmaniac (Sep 27, 2012)

jarta said:


> My point was that if people have less at stake, they are more likely to walk away.  You disagreed with that premise.  I pointed out a prior post where you said you had only $1,000 invested so you would find it easy to walk away from that size of investment.
> 
> You would walk away from a $1,000 investment but you would pay the the MFs first.  Others might not be so honorable.  We certainly have seen a lot of unpaid MFs where people walk away because they know chasing them by a resort remote from where they live is practically impossible.  (Hypothetical example: an Arizona resort like SDO chasing a Canadian like you for the the less than $1,000 annual MF at SDO.)
> 
> ...



I think you tend to forget that the vast majority of TS owners bought at full fare with the developer. The number who actually buy resales are in the minority. We all know the majority of TS owners don't know much about their TS and usually uninformed. I have to be honest, I have gained volumes from TUG and know how to use my TS better. It is these people who due to lack of knowledge give up on their TS as they can't "get what they want".

They call at the last minute expecting availability, they join II or RCI and don't know how the system works, get frustrated and say that their TS is useless therefore abandoning it. 

Many of those walking away are walking away paying the full price.

Putting usage limitations only goes to hurt the property as people will make a fast exodus from it. If SDO put these limitations in place, I would probably sell it if it no longer meets my needs. If WKORV had those limitations, it might be that some may sell out of there as well. There are consequences to every action.


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## Quadmaniac (Sep 27, 2012)

PamMo said:


> I think the decision to buy at SDO is based on expectations (just like any timeshare purchase). When people hear how easy it is to "trade up" in this forum, it seems like a no brainer. I bought at the resorts we want to vacation because I need to choose the weeks and size units that will work out best for my family (as an owner, I always get first dibs), I use FF miles for flights so need to plan well ahead of travel dates, and view is important to me. Those are not everyone else's concerns. Did/do I pay more for our timeshares than if I bought a "trader"? Absolutely. But knowing I can get just what I need every year is definitely worth it to me. Others are much more flexible in their style of travel, and a unit deposited in II works fine for them.
> 
> I would like to add that my concern is that the upside of buying a "cheap" trader is always stressed on this board. I think it should be equally emphasized that the easy, great trades are certainly possible, but they are not guaranteed. Starwood has changed the way deposits are made in the exchange companies, and added StarOption banking for owners in SVN. I think they will continue to tweak their system to generate more income, and increase direct sales at the resorts. Interval and RCI changes just add more to the mix.



The trading does not work for everyone and I think many mention IF you are flexible in your dates, this is a great option. For those with fixed schedules where the kids only have summer, Christmas holidays and spring break it does become more difficult. In the case of you having WKORV, unless you have week 51/52 specifically, you're mostly shut out of 51/52. Spring break would be a popular time as well as the summer. Recently there was availability to trade into a couple of weeks in the summer as well as most of the year except for spring break and week 51/52 a year in advance. 

As you stated, nothing is guaranteed, but thus far, it has been available. If and when that availability changes, then people may re-assess the decision to buy in that resort specifically. Fair enough. Even with being a WKORV owner, booking a week is subject to availability as well. If we are seeing it a year in advance and you also have a year in advance to book, your advantage is mostly controlling the view. If it is worth that much to you, absolutely it is better for you to have what you want. 

For some, the security of going where they want to go and the view you want is worth the difference in paying the premium. If that is what you want, then there is nothing wrong with getting it if you are prepared to pay the price. I've only purchased used vehicles all my life, my dad would only purchase new vehicles from the dealers. I am comfortable with my purchases and my dad is happy with his. Are there alternatives to paying full price ? Yes. Is the security of new worth the difference ? To many, yes. 

We all have to decide where our comfort level is.


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## jarta (Sep 27, 2012)

I agree that all actions have some sort of consequence - some of them unintended.  But, there is a big problem creating an existential threat to timesharing - something I love doing and would love to continue doing at financially stable resorts.  (Checking in at FSA tomorrow.)    Salty


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## Doublej (Sep 27, 2012)

DeniseM said:


> You would not get enough TPU (points) for Aulani in RCI.
> 
> It doesn't have the same trading power in RCI - the main reason to buy a Starwood trader is for the Starwood to Starwood priority in II.  I would not buy it for an RCI trader because there is no priority, and the TPU points are mediocre.  I use a non-Starwood trader in RCI, with about twice the TPU.  (Trading Power Units)



If the TS states in the auction it trades in RCI, can you Trade it in II?


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## Doublej (Sep 27, 2012)

Quadmaniac said:


> The trading does not work for everyone and I think many mention IF you are flexible in your dates, this is a great option. For those with fixed schedules where the kids only have summer, Christmas holidays and spring break it does become more difficult. In the case of you having WKORV, unless you have week 51/52 specifically, you're mostly shut out of 51/52. Spring break would be a popular time as well as the summer. Recently there was availability to trade into a couple of weeks in the summer as well as most of the year except for spring break and week 51/52 a year in advance.
> 
> As you stated, nothing is guaranteed, but thus far, it has been available. If and when that availability changes, then people may re-assess the decision to buy in that resort specifically. Fair enough. Even with being a WKORV owner, booking a week is subject to availability as well. If we are seeing it a year in advance and you also have a year in advance to book, your advantage is mostly controlling the view. If it is worth that much to you, absolutely it is better for you to have what you want.
> 
> ...



So how far out can I book?  Lets say I purchase a SDO TS and it takes 45 days to close.  I want to use it next September.... is that possible?


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## DeniseM (Sep 27, 2012)

Doublej said:


> So how far out can I book?  Lets say I purchase a SDO TS and it takes 45 days to close.  I want to use it next September.... is that possible?



Are you asking how soon you can reserve your home week, or how soon you can deposit it with II?

The answer is the same:  As soon as it closes (probably more like 2 mos. rather than 45 days) you can either make a home resort reservation, or "designate it for exchange" (deposit it) and put in an on-going request.  September is off-season for travel, so it's an easy time to get an exchange.


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## hypnotiq (Sep 27, 2012)

DeniseM said:


> September is off-season for travel, so it's an easy time to get an exchange.



Shhhhhh :ignore: 

Don't tell people that, I still have rooms Im trying to grab for Sept.


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## Renny30 (Sep 27, 2012)

DeniseM said:


> Are you asking how soon you can reserve your home week, or how soon you can deposit it with II?
> 
> The answer is the same:  As soon as it closes (probably more like 2 mos. rather than 45 days) you can either make a home resort reservation, or "designate it for exchange" (deposit it) and put in an on-going request.  September is off-season for travel, so it's an easy time to get an exchange.



I purchased my week on 9/5 and it was entered in Starwood's system yesterday, so sometimes you get lucky. I called and the customer service rep was happy to set me up.


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## Renny30 (Sep 27, 2012)

hypnotiq said:


> Shhhhhh :ignore:
> 
> Don't tell people that, I still have rooms Im trying to grab for Sept.



LOL, I'm a September gal too. Week 37 or 38 works for me. I should be on vacation right now. :annoyed:  Next year.


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## DeniseM (Sep 27, 2012)

Renny30 said:


> I purchased my week on 9/5 and it was entered in Starwood's system yesterday, so sometimes you get lucky. I called and the customer service rep was happy to set me up.



It's not really luck - it's the quality of work the closing company does.  45 days is definitely possible, but many of the ebay sellers drag it out 2 mos. or more.


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## Quadmaniac (Sep 28, 2012)

hypnotiq said:


> Shhhhhh :ignore:
> 
> Don't tell people that, I still have rooms Im trying to grab for Sept.



You must have had your fill by now ? There is tonnes of availability...even at other resorts, lol


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## Quadmaniac (Sep 28, 2012)

Doublej said:


> So how far out can I book?  Lets say I purchase a SDO TS and it takes 45 days to close.  I want to use it next September.... is that possible?



Hopefully there will still be units available, but as Sept is off season, it should not be that hard. Lots of availability at a number of resorts right now.


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## hypnotiq (Sep 28, 2012)

Quadmaniac said:


> You must have had your fill by now ? There is tonnes of availability...even at other resorts, lol



Waiting for closing to go through on a couple of purchases to grab the other rooms. 

Not too worried. I grabbed our reservation this year in May.


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## Quadmaniac (Sep 28, 2012)

hypnotiq said:


> Waiting for closing to go through on a couple of purchases to grab the other rooms.
> 
> Not too worried. I grabbed our reservation this year in May.


 
Sweet! My Willow Ridge just went through Marriott's system yesterday


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## Doublej (Sep 30, 2012)

So what do you guys think about these?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/SHERATON-DE...21131757361?pt=Timeshares&hash=item337c7ad731

http://www.ebay.com/itm/SHERATON-DE...10956764041?pt=Timeshares&hash=item19d589db89


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## Quadmaniac (Sep 30, 2012)

Doublej said:


> So what do you guys think about these?
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/SHERATON-DE...21131757361?pt=Timeshares&hash=item337c7ad731
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/SHERATON-DE...10956764041?pt=Timeshares&hash=item19d589db89



First one yes as it is platinum and it is the smaller 1 br with $575 MF, but no on the second as it is the larger 1 br with $680 MF. Both trade the same size wise whether it is the larger or smaller, but the first one has the advantage of Platinum vs Gold Plus of the second one. First one is a better buy.


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## KACTravels (Oct 1, 2012)

DeniseM said:


> strategy is to deposit your week(s), and put in an ongoing request for an impossible exchange (Christmas/New Years at WKORV for example) and then search daily for a 2 bdm. online exchange.  The reason for this is that with Starwood, a week that is actually *deposited* and has an *on-going request* in place has more trading power, than one that doesn't.  You put in an "impossible request" because you don't actually want to get it - you are holding out for a 2 bdm.  When you make the instant online trade, the exchange fee you paid for the on-going request will automatically transfer to.



Denise, if you put in for an "impossible" ongoing exchange to have better trading power, can you change it later if you decide to use it for short stays instead?  I like using the 6 Day Short Stay for last minute trips to Tahoe, but also like the idea of seeing better available exchanges.  Thanks


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## DeniseM (Oct 1, 2012)

KACTravels said:


> Denise, if you put in for an "impossible" ongoing exchange to have better trading power, can you change it later if you decide to use it for short stays instead?  I like using the 6 Day Short Stay for last minute trips to Tahoe, but also like the idea of seeing better available exchanges.  Thanks



You actually don't have to make any changes - when you make an instant online exchange using the SAME deposit, the pre-paid exchange fee for the on-going request, automatically switches to the instant online exchange.


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## cebus5 (Oct 5, 2012)

Hello, Tuggers!  Does anyone know the answer to this?  Thanks! (sorry i meant to add the quote, pls. see below)


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## cebus5 (Oct 5, 2012)

Doublej said:


> If the TS states in the auction it trades in RCI, can you Trade it in II?



Hi, just wondering if someone could please answer this question above?  Thanks a lot!


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## Beefnot (Oct 5, 2012)

cebus5 said:


> Hi, just wondering if someone could please answer this question above?  Thanks a lot!



Just because the auction does not mention II, does not necessarily mean it only trades with RCI.

First see if the resort appears in the II Resort Directory on their website.  Then contact the resort to validate that there are no restrictions.  From what I understand, some resorts have restrictions as to which units can trade in RCI or II, depending on when or from whom they were originally purchased.  I do not believe this is common though.


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## Quadmaniac (Oct 5, 2012)

cebus5 said:


> Hi, just wondering if someone could please answer this question above?  Thanks a lot!



You can use either of you are referring to SDO specifically. I use mine at II to take advantage of the priority. It is not really much use in RCI without the priority.


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## DeniseM (Oct 5, 2012)

cebus5 said:


> Hi, just wondering if someone could please answer this question above?  Thanks a lot!



It doesn't matter what the Ad says:  You can open a II Acct. and/or an RCI Acct. and trade SDO with either - it's your choice.  You just can't deposit the same week with both exchange companies the same year.


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## cebus5 (Oct 5, 2012)

Thanks for the replies!  I appreciate it!  Have a good weekend everyone!


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## Purefct (Feb 9, 2013)

LoL it only took me 5 months to realize my marketplace user ID was different than my BBS ID and that's why even though I'm a member I wasn't listed as a member!

OK so now I re-read this entire thread and I think I understand the process for searching II in a manner maximizing my ability to see Westin Kaanapali units ... a few questions:

1) Currently there are not any Westin Maui units available, correct?
2) The best way to use any SVO for exchange is to initiate a search (on-going request) let's say using a studio or a 1BR for a similar unit at the destination I want to get to but specify dates I think will be unlikely to come available. THEN I use that same unit to check availability from time to time which can help me snag a unit larger than the one I'm using as my deposit?
3) A lot of people claim the SDO Red units (week 1-52, not the phase with three different seasons, not even the Platinum phase) offer the best trading power and my Sheraton Vistana Villages Bella phase are not strong enough, even if I use Star Options rather than weeks?


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## VacationForever (Feb 9, 2013)

Purefct said:


> 1) Currently there are not any Westin Maui units available, correct?
> 2) The best way to use any SVO for exchange is to initiate a search (on-going request) let's say using a studio or a 1BR for a similar unit at the destination I want to get to but specify dates I think will be unlikely to come available. THEN I use that same unit to check availability from time to time which can help me snag a unit larger than the one I'm using as my deposit?
> 3) A lot of people claim the SDO Red units (week 1-52, not the phase with three different seasons, not even the Platinum phase) offer the best trading power and my Sheraton Vistana Villages Bella phase are not strong enough, even if I use Star Options rather than weeks?


1) You only see Westin Maui units in II when a bulk deposit takes place.  They usually continue to be available for several weeks depending on how quickly they are exchanged into.
2) Yes, only applicable in II
3) Actually SDO Platinum week has stronger trading power than 1-52 in II.  But most of the time you won't notice the difference.  Within II, SDO is likely to have stronger trading power than SVV.  Within Starwood internal trading where Star Options are used, Star Option is the currency.  There is no trade power associated with Star Option unless you are booking at your home resort then it is a matter of booking 12 months ahead at your home resort vs. 8 months ahead for booking a non-home resort, plus you get your deeded view at your home resort, if applicable.  In Starwood internal trading system if you have enough Star Options and there is availability then the unit is yours.


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## Purefct (Feb 9, 2013)

On item 3 I was attempting to understand the power of Star Options for an II exchange relative to SDO or other weeks deposit. I am comfortable undestanding the value of using SO for internal reservations. I have two II accounts. One for all my "weeks" deposits where I've been assured my Marriott and SVO weeks deposits (such as an SDO) receive their respective priority windows, and a free account associated with my SVN memberhip. In this second account I can search based on SVV weeks or based on Star Options.


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## VacationForever (Feb 9, 2013)

Purefct said:


> On item 3 I was attempting to understand the power of Star Options for an II exchange relative to SDO or other weeks deposit. I am comfortable undestanding the value of using SO for internal reservations. I have two II accounts. One for all my "weeks" deposits where I've been assured my Marriott and SVO weeks deposits (such as an SDO) receive their respective priority windows, and a free account associated with my SVN memberhip. In this second account I can search based on SVV weeks or based on Star Options.



II trading power does not have anything to do with whether the week is part of SVN that comes with Star Options or not. 

Your second/free II account does not search by Star Options.  Star Options search is only within mystarcentral.com.


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