# What was your perception of "wealth" as a kid?



## DaveNV (Sep 2, 2021)

I saw this on social media this morning, and it got me to thinking...





For me, "wealth" was families taking vacations that didn't involve sleeping in a tent or on a relative's couch.

What things do you remember using to measure who was wealthy and who wasn't?

Dave


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## Ralph Sir Edward (Sep 2, 2021)

Having an allowance. . .

OTOH - no transportation, no stores nearby, no way to do mail order (everything required a payment by check - which I didn't have access to.)

At least my parents sprung for cheap paperback books by SBS at school. (My "vacations" were trips in those books.)


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## Jodyv (Sep 2, 2021)

My family lived in a nice area of a very small, rural community.  When I was about 12, I asked my dad, (who was a maintenance worker at an elementary school) If we were in the Upper Class.  He burst out laughing and said that we would be lucky if we were considered to be the upper portion of the Lower Class!!


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## Iggyearl (Sep 2, 2021)

I took up golf at 16.  The local public course was fine, but some of the kids in high school got to play the country club.  I thought that being a member of a country club was a sign of wealth.  One day my dad got a written invitation to apply for membership in the country club.  I went to bed praying he would respond.  Nope - never happened.  I realized later that we couldn't afford it.


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## beejaybeeohio (Sep 2, 2021)

Being able to vacation in Florida!


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## Ty1on (Sep 2, 2021)

Living in a house you weren't waiting to get evicted from.


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## geist1223 (Sep 2, 2021)

Flying to foreign countries to vacation. Flying itself to me was not a sign of wealth as I started flying when I was 6.


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## slip (Sep 2, 2021)

I never gave that any thought when I was a kid or even now really. My father gave me a few kernels of wisdom that I remember to this day. One was never worry about what other people have or do. You can't control it and you'll never know the whole story anyway. 

He was a smart man for someone who only graduated from high school. He had opportunities to move up the corporate latter in his working years but he stopped advancing when the next job would take too much time away from our family. 

I remember when I was a kid. He was with a group of people and someone asked what they would do with a million dollars and everyone answered what they would stayed what they would save and spend it on. My dad said he wouldn't want it. He said it would just cause a bunch of problems he didn't want to deal with. No one thought he was serious but he was. He was just a simple man that knew what he wanted out of life. 

While I am not as smart as him,  I see myself in him more and more everyday.


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## T_R_Oglodyte (Sep 2, 2021)

Ralph Sir Edward said:


> Having an allowance. . .


Yes. I would add -

Having a pair of sneakers as well as a pair of leather shoes. Also having a pair of new shoes that were only one size too large.


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## hjsweet2002 (Sep 2, 2021)

I grew up dirt financially poor.  Constantly moving.  Constant Bill collector calls, surplus food  hand me down or rummage sale clothes, camping out back in a tent.

However, wealth was the love closeness of our family.  Can't put a price on that wealth


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## Luanne (Sep 2, 2021)

Like @slip  I never thought about it as a kid.  While I would have like to have been able to buy all of the clothes I wanted, we were comfortable, took vacations (road trips) every year, and really didn't want for anything.  I would have like to have had a swimming pool in our backyard, but I never thought we didn't have one because we couldn't afford it, but more because my parents didn't want the upkeep of one.


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## Ty1on (Sep 2, 2021)

slip said:


> I never gave that any thought when I was a kid or even now really. My father gave me a few kernels of wisdom that I remember to this day. One was never worry about what other people have or do. You can't control it and you'll never know the whole story anyway.
> 
> He was a smart man for someone who only graduated from high school. He had opportunities to move up the corporate latter in his working years but he stopped advancing when the next job would take too much time away from our family.
> 
> ...



I've given a lot of thought lately that when people are dreaming of financial wealth, they really aren't dreaming of financial wealth.  They are dreaming of being able to have the influence and the perceived public adoration that comes with being wealthy.  I think lottery winners find that the money doesn't bring them influence and adoration at all.  It brings family, friends, and strangers that want a piece of it through begging, borrowing, or stealing.  The fact is that those who have the wealthy lifestyle we glamorize are there because of their ability to influence others and inspire adoration.  When we dreamers seek to be like them, we are chasing the wrong target when we think a windfall of a million dollars or two hundred million dollars will give us that.

Of course, I am perfectly willing to test that theory.


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## klpca (Sep 2, 2021)

DaveNV said:


> I saw this on social media this morning, and it got me to thinking...
> 
> View attachment 39505
> 
> ...


For me it was just a vacation. We never went anywhere when I was a kid. I thought that was only something in the movies or books.


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## vacationtime1 (Sep 2, 2021)

Having two bathrooms in your house.


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## T_R_Oglodyte (Sep 2, 2021)

hjsweet2002 said:


> However, wealth was the love closeness of our family. Can't put a price on that wealth


Totally.  There was never a shortage of love in our household.  

Never, ever, for even one moment did I ever question whether I was loved.  Even when I was angry with my parents about something because I thought they wrong or badly informed, never did I doubt that there actions were done out of love and concern.


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## CanuckTravlr (Sep 2, 2021)

Scrooge McDuck!!!


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## Glynda (Sep 2, 2021)

I didn't think about it when I was little but as a teen I was embarrassed to wear home made clothes. I yearned to own a pair of Capezio flats to wear to school like other girls instead of the saddle oxfords my mother made me wear. And I thought being rich would be having a washer and dryer instead of having to go to the laundry mat.


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## DaveNV (Sep 2, 2021)

Maybe another way to think about it is "What did you perceive wealthy families did?" or "How did wealthy families live differently from yours?"

My story is similar to many of you - I grew up in a family where hand-me-down clothes were how we lived.  (Thank goodness I had an older brother, and not just my older sister. )  Food was basic, life was blue collar, there were daily chores, and occasionally there might be an allowance. No lack of love or food on the table.  It was never that.  But because we lived such a basic life, the idea of taking a vacation to go someplace like Disneyland, or (wonder of wonders) Hawaii?  That was unthinkable because it just didn't happen. I remember when I was in junior high school and a classmate came back after Christmas vacation all tanned.  He said his family went to Hawaii for Christmas.  I was thunderstruck.  Who does that???  We got a new pair of shoes and a winter coat every year right before school started.  In a really well-to-do year we got a new lunch pail.  Otherwise, it was paper sack lunches.  Rich kids got hot lunch.  We didn't.  But it was how we lived.  No shame, no guilt - just life at our house.

Dave


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## bnoble (Sep 2, 2021)

DaveNV said:


> For me, "wealth" was families taking vacations that didn't involve sleeping in a tent or on a relative's couch.


If you came back from Spring Break in grade school with a tan, that was Real Money


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## Ty1on (Sep 2, 2021)

klpca said:


> For me it was just a vacation. We never went anywhere when I was a kid. I thought that was only something in the movies or books.



I remember one actual "vacation" after I was 10 and was thrust into a different socioeconomic class, a weekend trip to Disneyland from Vegas.  There were also a few crosscountry drives to the family farm in Oklahoma from Vegas for 2 to 3 week stays.  My grandmother LOVED to take us to JC Penney to clothes shop for us.  Whatever she bought was my wardrobe for the next year, pretty much.

There are three things I want to give my daughter that I never had:

1: Sincere interest in her, what makes her tick, and especially interest and encouragement in her education.
2: A stable home, where we aren't bouncing around to different apartments or delusional attempts to buy houses and then staying with others when the house inevitably forecloses.
3: Experiences.  Tennis lessons, horseback lessons and trail rides, vacations to new places, going to see movies WITH HER instead of dropping her off at the theatre and picking her up.

One of the three things is free.  The second is simply a matter of being responsible with money in a gambling town, something my mother and degenerate stepfather lacked.  The third would be the first luxury I'd have to abandon if our financial situation changes, but while I can, I'm doing what I can so that she doesn't feel "less than" when she goes back to school in August and compares summer vacay notes with her peers.  When I was her age, I had seen Texas, Oklahoma, and Vegas.  And SoCal for a weekend.  She's been to Russia 3 times, Disneyland 4 times, Disney World once, Cancun, Puerto Vallarta, Lake Tahoe, San Francisco, The Big Island, and next month will go on a school trip to DC, something my parents would never have agreed to pay for even if they had the money.  And all this with middle class parents.

The point of this rambling post was yeah, I thought vacationing was for the rich.  Only now do I understand that it's more a matter of prioritizing where a family spends its limited resources.  I didn't vacation when I was single, or even when I was married before our daughter was born.  My wife would take vacations to visit fam in Russia, which is little different from my crosscountry trips to the farm and not really a vacation.  I didn't want to spend money vacationing because I didn't see the point of the expense.  My daughter has changed my perspective.  It's a financial challenge, but I sincerely think it will influence who my daughter becomes, and most importantly, will make her a very expensive date!


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## Luanne (Sep 2, 2021)

Growing up I never got the idea that there were people I knew, or that lived around us, that had more wealth than we did.  Everyone lived about the same kind of lives.  I remember when our neighbors took a trip (by boat) to Hawaii.  That was so exciting that my sister and I got out of school that day in order to see them off.  How fun was that!  But again, I didn't think it was because they were wealthier than we were.

But heck, what do I know.  My mother grew up in Beverly Hills.


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## LisaH (Sep 2, 2021)

Growing up in China in the 60-70s, we were poor just like everyone. I didn't know what wealth meant. My wish was to be able to eat sausages and drink coffee every day.
Coming to US in the 80s, I wished that one day, I could walk into Macy's and buy whatever I wanted. At the time I could only afford to shop in K-mart.


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## elaine (Sep 2, 2021)

I didn't think about it much. I went to an affluent HS in FL, but lived in the older (cheaper) very middle class side of town (which has now become trendy with mid-century homes). Some friends had 2nd homes at the beach. I had friends ranging from kids whose parents were Drs., the owner of TV station to one working at Sears. For many friends, I had no idea what their parents did or their wealth status. We didn't spend much $ even if we had it (which I have no idea). We got college paid for. I know realize that's a very nice head start in life for parents to give their kids. When I went to college, people talked about "who" someone's parent "was" or what they did. It seemed weird to me.
I still buy furniture off of Ebay Marketplace or Nextdoor. When I proudly told some neighbors that I just got a great sofa for $400, I later realized that maybe they thought I couldn't afford to buy new furniture?


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## DaveNV (Sep 2, 2021)

elaine said:


> I still buy furniture off of Ebay Marketplace or Nextdoor. When I proudly told some neighbors that I just got a great sofa for $400, I later realized that maybe they thought I couldn't afford to buy new furniture?



I know people who insist on sharing intimate details of how they got this or that item for so cheap. (Not talking about you, @elaine.  ) Those people brag up how cheaply they got "it", whatever it was.  I've always thought, "Well good, let's move on."  But then they talk about the next item, and the one after that.  And it's very annoying to me that everything in their lives seems to have a price tag attached. I know a guy in Washington who gets on my last nerve with his constant financial oneupsmanship.  If it's not how he got it for so cheap, it's how he scored it for free!  He begs people to give him things, even though he works full time, and lives in a paid-off home that was inherited from his partner's parents.  When he shares things on social media, he always has to state what he paid for something, or tag his friends and mention how he got it for free from them.  It rankles me to the quick.

Dave


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## T_R_Oglodyte (Sep 2, 2021)

DaveNV said:


> Rich kids got hot lunch.


Yep.  Hot lunch in the school cafeteria was ten cents.  A half-pint milk carton was a penny.  So we took a sack lunch to school.  Jelly sandwich and a piece of fruit when in season. Occasionally a home-made cookie.  

After two of my older siblings moved out, things weren't quite so tight.  So then twice a year we could pick one week to have school hot lunch.  My sister and I would track the menus for the upcoming week to pick a week that had at least three meals that were what we liked.  We looked for weeks that had fish sticks, spaghetti, sloppy Joe's, or Salisbury steak.


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## bluehende (Sep 2, 2021)

I never thought too much about wealth when I was a kid.  We grew up in a lower middle class neighborhood.  We wanted for nothing but had to watch what we spent.  My only thing we had that seemed to set us apart from everyone else in the neighborhood was when we were the first on the block to have a color tv.


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## CanuckTravlr (Sep 2, 2021)

I grew up with my two younger brothers as an air force brat (RCAF), moving every two or three years to a different base, and sometimes a previous base.  My father was an officer and my mother came from a family with money (not filthy rich, but definitely higher society in Victoria, BC), so we were fortunate to always live a comfortable life.  Nevertheless, while we never lacked for anything, my parents had the philosophy of not lavishing us with things, or overindulging us.  We were a close-knit family, and lots of love and adventures were shared, of which I have many fond memories.

One of the things I learned over 40 years working with clients as a financial planner is that perceptions of wealth are definitely relative.  Even the wealthy don't often think of themselves as such, unless they have extreme wealth, typically in excess of $25 to $50 million of net worth!  I think my first experience of that concept of relative levels of wealth was around 1953/54.  I would have been around 4 years of age.

In married housing on an air base everyone has a house, based on family size (and to some degree rank), and the rent was based on a percentage of pay, so as a kid you don't notice families being that much different from yours.  We all lived and played together, although everyone was aware of the rank structure and what that normally meant, at least to some degree.  My mother told me this story many years later, since I had forgotten it.

I had been playing with a friend down the street.  They had just gotten a TV set (black and white obviously), one of the very few on base at that time.  (Side note: television service only started in Canada in late 1952.)  We must have ended up inside watching it for awhile, which was my first exposure to it.  I don't remember it, but I must have enjoyed it.

Apparently that night at the dinner table I asked my father if he outranked my friend's father (who was a warrant officer, a senior NCO).  At the time my father was a flight lieutenant (the equivalent of a captain in the USAF).  He said yes.  I then asked him why they had a TV and we didn't (rather cheeky talk from the mouths of babes, sort of!!!).  There was a crew in the next week installing our new big Philco console TV and the 30 ft. antenna and rotor it needed in those days to bring in the signals!  My mother apparently got a kick out of it!!


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## T_R_Oglodyte (Sep 2, 2021)

DaveNV said:


> Maybe another way to think about it is "What did you perceive wealthy families did?"


Growing up in Minnesota, almost everyone in my area went to the lake for at least part of summer vacation.  Wealthy families rented a cabin at one of the thousands of lakeside resorts in the state. People who weren't as poor as us, but not wealthy, would sometimes buy a lakeside lot, and park a trailer and an ice-fishing house (for winter use) on the lot.

So I guess, having a lakeside lot was a sign of upward mobility.


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## clifffaith (Sep 2, 2021)

I didn't really think about "wealth" as a kid. There was one or two years when aerospace must have been going through layoffs because Christmas felt skimpy when my parents cut back "just in case", and I was embarrassed that I didn't have a long roster of gifts to rattle off when school started again in January. I did know that the only child across the street got WAY more gifts than all three of us kids put together. Her parents must have bought her every new Barbie outfit that came out each year -- the stack of clothing boxes literally came to my waist. It wasn't until I went to college that I realized some of the other kids in the dorm had a more affluent background than I did. We were definitely better off than my mother was growing up, but not up to my paternal grandmother's upbringing. I'd bring friends in when she visited and she always wanted to know what their fathers "did" -- mystified me and pissed my mother off.


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## clifffaith (Sep 2, 2021)

bluehende said:


> I never thought too much about wealth when I was a kid.  We grew up in a lower middle class neighborhood.  We wanted for nothing but had to watch what we spent.  My only thing we had that seemed to set us apart from everyone else in the neighborhood was when we were the first on the block to have a color tv.



My dad made our Heathkit TV. I remember neighbors coming over to watch it and us kids looked forward to the first time we could watch The Wonderful World of Color in actual color!


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## DaveNV (Sep 2, 2021)

T_R_Oglodyte said:


> Yep.  Hot lunch in the school cafeteria was ten cents.  A half-pint milk carton was a penny.



My school had hot lunch for 35 cents.  They offered a cold lunch for 25 cents.  Milk was 3 cents. So we carried our lunch and bought a carton of milk.  It was a very rare day when I was given money to buy lunch, hot or cold.

Dave


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## DaveNV (Sep 2, 2021)

clifffaith said:


> My dad made our Heathkit TV. I remember neighbors coming over to watch it and us kids looked forward to the first time we could watch The Wonderful World of Color in actual color!



I remember my grandparents had a color TV when we kids stayed with them over the Summer of 1962. We were just moving back to Washington state from Alaska, (where we had no TV at all), and our lives were turning upside down once again. (I went to 13 schools in 12 years in 5 states. We moved a LOT.)

The color TV was amazing, but they had moved to their acreage in the country since buying the TV, and their reception was absolutely crap.  So the best "color" we saw on the screen was "snow."  We could HEAR the Walt Disney theme music, but the picture was really, really snowy and poor. "Bonanza" was just as bad.  I don't remember any other color TV shows they watched.  My grandpa would insist on turning on the TV when "his shows" were on (the color ones), but then he'd immediately fall asleep.  So not only couldn't we SEE the shows, we couldn't HEAR them because of his snoring.  It was no wonder we kids played outdoors a lot that Summer.  

Dave


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## BJRSanDiego (Sep 2, 2021)

When I was growing up I didn't think a lot about what it would be like to be wealthy.  My parents were hardworking blue collar people - - my Dad was a cook and my Mom cleaned houses and/or acted as a Nanny.  We always had what we needed but sometimes less than our desires.  I still regret that my folks couldn't afford to buy me a baseball glove.  Ha ha.

My aunt and uncle seemed to be "rich" from my own humble perspective -- They lived in a nicer neighborhood, had a new house, bought cars NEW rather than used, had the car serviced at a shop rather than ourselves (I did my first drum brake job at age 12 or so), took vacations, etc.  But I wasn't jealous or envious.  I was happy with what I had.


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## 1Kflyerguy (Sep 2, 2021)

I am not sure I really thought about that much as a child.  My family was comfortable but not wealthy.    I do remember being jealous of the kids whose families went to the Lake Tahoe to go skiing every winter, and i had one friend whos family went to Hawaii a lot.   They also had a TV with a remote control..  and a car with power windows and locks..  

Our vacations were driving trips around California.  I don't think i flew anywhere until I was an adult.


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## Luanne (Sep 2, 2021)

DaveNV said:


> My school had hot lunch for 35 cents.  They offered a cold lunch for 25 cents.  Milk was 3 cents. So we carried our lunch and bought a carton of milk.  It was a very rare day when I was given money to buy lunch, hot or cold.
> 
> Dave


I don't remember what a school lunch cost.  I do know that I was allowed to buy my lunch one day a week (I always tried to buy on hamburger day) and the rest of the week I brought my lunch to school.  I also remember that we weren't allowed out to recess after lunch until we had finished our entire lunch.  I was a very slow eater at the time and there were many days I was the last kid left in the cafeteria.

I continued to take my lunch through middle school and high school.


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## Janann (Sep 2, 2021)

clifffaith said:


> My dad made our Heathkit TV. I remember neighbors coming over to watch it and us kids looked forward to the first time we could watch The Wonderful World of Color in actual color!



My dad built a Heathkit TV too!  I'm pretty sure it was our first color TV.


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## bogey21 (Sep 2, 2021)

A new baseball glove...

George


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## clifffaith (Sep 2, 2021)

bogey21 said:


> A new baseball glove...
> 
> George



Cliff always wanted one, but his mother thought they were too poor to afford it. The Depression pretty much warped her ability to spend money, on everything other than the new car they bought every five years. Heck, we drive ours easily 18 years or until they start looking crossways at us.


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## mdurette (Sep 2, 2021)

I recall my father (one of 12 children) telling me about the communal underwear drawer for him and all his brothers.   It didn't matter what size you were, you had to wear what was left in the draw.   I remember thinking how lucky I was to have my own drawer of MY OWN underwear.


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## b2bailey (Sep 2, 2021)

Glynda said:


> I didn't think about it when I was little but as a teen I was embarrassed to wear home made clothes. I yearned to own a pair of Capezio flats to wear to school like other girls instead of the saddle oxfords my mother made me wear. And I thought being rich would be having a washer and dryer instead of having to go to the laundry mat.


I do remember my first pair of capezios -- I think I paid half with money earned babysitting.


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## rickandcindy23 (Sep 2, 2021)

Wealthy to me as a kid was getting to go on vacation to Disneyland.  I have a friend that got to go as a little kid, she is still my friend today and things are now reversed and she never goes anymore for the same reason we couldn't go.  She cannot afford it as an adult. That is why Rick's and my first real vacation together in 1976 was a trip to Disneyland, and we definitely could afford it when we went. 

Our only vacations was to our grandparents farm near Shelton, NE, rural route 1, my mom's folks, and I loved it.  I loved irrigating with the tubes that we carried and placed along the rows of corn.  I loved walking in the irrigation ditch to get to the well to get the mud off of our clothes, then into the truck, all wet, and of course straight into the basement shower to clean off before lunch.  The water was hard and felt good on my skin, well water always felt and tasted so good to me, no chlorine.  

I shared a room with my two sisters, three twin beds lined up on one wall, we shared a dresser on the opposite wall and a bookcase.  I loved my own little corner of the room and felt rich when my two little sisters left me alone to read.  I used to win contests on the number of books I read in the summers.  I loved the library and went there every week for more books.  I loved writing book reports.


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## Laurie (Sep 2, 2021)

Living in a house rather than an apartment. Going to sleepaway camp in the summer.


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## MrockStar (Sep 2, 2021)

Having air conditioning in the house and cars, getting name brand clothes for back to school. Getting a 10speed bike, instead of a 5 or three speed bike. Getting a real canoe instead of the inflatable one. Camping at a real campground,  instead of the backyard or the woods. Having a paved road, instead of the oiled dirt road in front of our house. Having a paved driveway instead if a 300 foot gravel driveway. Still I wouldn't have changed a thing growing up that way, it really makes me feel blessed now.


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## Ty1on (Sep 2, 2021)

rickandcindy23 said:


> I loved writing book reports.


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## DaveNV (Sep 2, 2021)

mdurette said:


> I recall my father (one of 12 children) telling me about the communal underwear drawer for him and all his brothers.   It didn't matter what size you were, you had to wear what was left in the draw.   I remember thinking how lucky I was to have my own drawer of MY OWN underwear.



I have a friend right here in town who has told me the exact same story.  He was the youngest of 12 Mormon kids in Salt Lake City, and all the boys shared one underwear drawer. As the smallest, he usually had a choice, because the older boys wore larger sizes. He said as an adult, one of the personal things he splurges on is buying himself underwear.  He says he owns "lots of it."  Priorities.  

Dave


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## stmartinfan (Sep 2, 2021)

Buying ready made clothes in a store. My mom made all my clothes, although many of my friends wore homemade things as well so it wasn’t a big deal. Looking back, I realized we had little money but we always had food, a decent home and must have paid our bills on time. Luckily I lived in a small farm town where few people lived ostentatiously, even if they had money.


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## rickandcindy23 (Sep 2, 2021)

stmartinfan said:


> Buying ready made clothes in a store. My mom made all my clothes, although many of my friends wore homemade things as well so it wasn’t a big deal. Looking back, I realized we had little money but we always had food, a decent home and must have paid our bills on time. Luckily I lived in a small farm town where few people lived ostentatiously, even if they had money.


My Grandma made my clothes, almost all of my best clothes.  My aunt (2.5 years older than me, so we are more like sisters) didn't even get store-bought underwear because Grandma made those, too.  Grandma didn't sew shoes, or my aunt would have been wearing homemade shoes.  That is a joke my aunt and I laugh about.


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## DaveNV (Sep 2, 2021)

rickandcindy23 said:


> My Grandma made my clothes, almost all of my best clothes.  My aunt (2.5 years older than me, so we are more like sisters) didn't even get store-bought underwear because Grandma made those, too.  Grandma didn't sew shoes, or my aunt would have been wearing homemade shoes.  That is a joke my aunt and I laugh about.



Sounds like Grandma had some mad skills!

When I was about 13 my Mom made me a poncho of a cool, South American patterned woven fabric.  Very hippie, Peruvian-Incan-Whatever-an.  She basically took a length of fabric folded in half, made a slit for my head along the fold that she edged in seam binding tape, then stitched down the sides partway.  I loved that thing, and wore it for a long time, till I'd outgrown it.  One day it disappeared after a garage sale she held.  I still have my suspicions that she sold it.  The curse of homemade clothing.

Dave


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## Luanne (Sep 2, 2021)

rickandcindy23 said:


> Wealthy to me as a kid was getting to go on vacation to Disneyland.


Will you hate me if I tell you that we went to Disneyland at least once a year, and sometimes more.  BUT, we lived about an hour's drive, so there was no need for a hotel.  The park was much smaller and could easily be done in a day.  Prices were WAY less, affordable for a family of four.  And my aunt and uncle lived in Anaheim, so if we needed a break we could go to their house, rest up, and go back to the park.

Pricing in 1955 was park admission cost $1, and attractions then cost $0.10 – $0.35. There were 35 attractions open at Disneyland in 1955, which brought the average price-per-attraction to ~$0.23. Guests could buy attraction ticket booklets for $2.50, but they only covered eight attractions each.  We were allowed to go on the rides in the ticket booklet, and if we were very, very lucky Dad might buy us a couple of extra rides.  I was trying to find out when they went to the one price, all included.  The info I'm finding says 1981, but that sounds really late as I would have been 31 then, and I thought I remembered having that introduced when I was still pretty young.


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## sun starved Gayle (Sep 2, 2021)

You were wealthy if:

You went to Disneyland for vacation. 
You had lots of store bought plaid skirts and sweaters featured in Seventeen magazine.
Your family had two cars.
You had a Cadillac. 
You drove around in the summer with the windows up in your car, because you had an air conditioned car! 
You had flown in a plane. 
Your family did not exist on ground beef casseroles,   your mom cooked “fancy”. 
Your dad played golf.
Your mom belonged to “clubs”. 
You got more than 1 big present and 1 small one for Christmas.

You were poor if:

Your family did not have a car.
You worked in the school cafeteria.
Your clothes were dingy and did not fit. 

I grew up in a middle class suburban-country neighborhood where everyone was pretty much the same. There was no public transportation so anyone who lived there had to have a car. There were almost no poor kids, or rich kids for that matter. It’s funny what we all used to think then.


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## T_R_Oglodyte (Sep 2, 2021)

DaveNV said:


> We got a new pair of shoes and a winter coat every year right before school started.


You were a rich kid!!!!!


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## isisdave (Sep 2, 2021)

My dad, born 1907, once told me that when he was young and poor, his idea of wealth was to have plenty of cold fried chicken in the fridge.

He was the youngest of seven, and managed to go to college with the help of his much older brother. But he told us that he ate an awful lot of Chef Boy-ar-Dee canned spaghetti, and that when the price went from 10 to 11 cents a can, it was a big deal.


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## clifffaith (Sep 2, 2021)

Luanne said:


> Will you hate me if I tell you that we went to Disneyland at least once a year, and sometimes more.  BUT, we lived about an hour's drive, so there was no need for a hotel.  The park was much smaller and could easily be done in a day.  Prices were WAY less, affordable for a family of four.  And my aunt and uncle lived in Anaheim, so if we needed a break we could go to their house, rest up, and go back to the park.
> 
> Pricing in 1955 was park admission cost $1, and attractions then cost $0.10 – $0.35. There were 35 attractions open at Disneyland in 1955, which brought the average price-per-attraction to ~$0.23. Guests could buy attraction ticket booklets for $2.50, but they only covered eight attractions each.  We were allowed to go on the rides in the ticket booklet, and if we were very, very lucky Dad might buy us a couple of extra rides.  I was trying to find out when they went to the one price, all included.  The info I'm finding says 1981, but that sounds really late as I would have been 31 then, and I thought I remembered having that introduced when I was still pretty young.



The aerospace company my Dad worked for had TRW night, I think both in March/April and October/November. I think it was about $10-12 per person in 1973, the last year we went. It was great showing one ticket at the gate, and then no ticket booklet to worry about. We always gathered at the Carnation Pavilion for hot chocolate at about midnight before the drive home.


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## bizaro86 (Sep 2, 2021)

It's interesting how much peoples surroundings affect their perceptions of this. Many have said we didn't have much but everyone was the same.

By contrast, my family was probably solidly middle class but we always felt poor to me. My parents bought more house (in a better neighbourhood) than they probably should have. That had two consequences

1) my clothes came from thrift stores and other money saving stuff was necessary, which made money a more regular topic.
2) all of my friends from school and the neighborhood had more money than us until I was probably high school aged.

As for the original question, I distinctly remember the McDonald's hockey cards being when I knew which kids were rich in elementary school. We would go to McDonald's during the promotion and my brother and I could each get 1 or 2 packs of $0.99 hockey cards. My friend (dad was a dentist) brought whole binders of them to school.

In the grand tradition of people who think they know better than their parents, I now live at least 1 economic level of neighbourhood below what we could afford.


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## elaine (Sep 2, 2021)

Luanne said:


> Guests could buy attraction ticket booklets for $2.50, but they only covered eight attractions each.


yes, WDW was also much more affordable--not just for "once in a lifetime" trip or only for fairly wealthy. We lived 2 hours away and went frequently--but didn't consider that being wealthy. We kids each got a ticket book ($3.50-6)--we used those A-E tickets and then went on the "free" Eastern Airlines "If you had Wings" over and over! We'd sometimes get a hotel and go to River Country ($3) the next day. No one had to "budget" anything for that weekend trip like families do now for a WDW trip.


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## Jodyv (Sep 2, 2021)

T_R_Oglodyte said:


> Totally.  There was never a shortage of love in our household.
> 
> Never, ever, for even one moment did I ever question whether I was loved.  Even when I was angry with my parents about something because I thought they wrong or badly informed, never did I doubt that there actions were done out of love and concern.


That really is the best gift parents can give their children.


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## DaveNV (Sep 2, 2021)

Luanne said:


> Will you hate me if I tell you that we went to Disneyland at least once a year, and sometimes more.  BUT, we lived about an hour's drive, so there was no need for a hotel.  The park was much smaller and could easily be done in a day.  Prices were WAY less, affordable for a family of four.  And my aunt and uncle lived in Anaheim, so if we needed a break we could go to their house, rest up, and go back to the park.
> 
> Pricing in 1955 was park admission cost $1, and attractions then cost $0.10 – $0.35. There were 35 attractions open at Disneyland in 1955, which brought the average price-per-attraction to ~$0.23. Guests could buy attraction ticket booklets for $2.50, but they only covered eight attractions each.  We were allowed to go on the rides in the ticket booklet, and if we were very, very lucky Dad might buy us a couple of extra rides.  I was trying to find out when they went to the one price, all included.  The info I'm finding says 1981, but that sounds really late as I would have been 31 then, and I thought I remembered having that introduced when I was still pretty young.



I don't know if Disney World had the same pricing as Disneyland, but in 1972 I went to DW twice while I was in Navy boot camp in Orlando. It was the time of A-E ticket books, and I remember paying something like $6 for the admission and the ticket book.  It couldn't have been much more than that, as I was a very, VERY poor sailor. 

Dave


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## CanuckTravlr (Sep 2, 2021)

Luanne said:


> Will you hate me if I tell you that we went to Disneyland at least once a year, and sometimes more.  BUT, we lived about an hour's drive, so there was no need for a hotel.  The park was much smaller and could easily be done in a day.  Prices were WAY less, affordable for a family of four.  And my aunt and uncle lived in Anaheim, so if we needed a break we could go to their house, rest up, and go back to the park.
> 
> Pricing in 1955 was park admission cost $1, and attractions then cost $0.10 – $0.35. There were 35 attractions open at Disneyland in 1955, which brought the average price-per-attraction to ~$0.23. Guests could buy attraction ticket booklets for $2.50, but they only covered eight attractions each.  We were allowed to go on the rides in the ticket booklet, and if we were very, very lucky Dad might buy us a couple of extra rides.  I was trying to find out when they went to the one price, all included.  The info I'm finding says 1981, but that sounds really late as I would have been 31 then, and I thought I remembered having that introduced when I was still pretty young.



I definitely won't hate you, but would have been envious at the time.  Growing up with The Mickey Mouse Club and Walt Disney Presents in the 1950s and then the Wonderful World of Disney in the 1960s and 1970s, I had always dreamed of going to Disneyland.

My first visit to Disneyland was in the summer of 1974, while visiting a girlfriend who lived in Fullerton, that I had met while travelling in Europe.  I do remember the coupon books with the A, B, C, (and maybe D and E?) tickets, if memory serves me correctly.  That brings back some memories!


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## Luanne (Sep 2, 2021)

CanuckTravlr said:


> I definitely won't hate you, but would have been envious at the time.  Growing up with The Mickey Mouse Club and Walt Disney Presents in the 1950s and then the Wonderful World of Disney in the 1960s and 1970s, I had always dreamed of going to Disneyland.
> 
> My first visit to Disneyland was in the summer of 1974, while visiting a girlfriend who lived in Fullerton, that I had met while travelling in Europe.  I do remember the coupon books with the A, B, C, (and maybe D and E?) tickets, if memory serves me correctly.  That brings back some memories!


If you remember ticket books from 1974 maybe they didn't introduce the single price until 1981.  But as a kid (well maybe around 12 or 13) I remember my parents letting me and my best friend loose in the park and one trip we rode the Matterhorn 8 times in row.


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## isisdave (Sep 2, 2021)

Living in SoCal, we'd get to go to Disneyland every time we had visitors from out of town, so 2-3 times most years.  I think it was affordable as we certainly weren't rich. And in those days, you could actually go on every ride you wanted to. Only the new ones ever had a line.

I remember the first time I was tall enough to drive an Autopia car myself.


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## pedro47 (Sep 2, 2021)

Having a white collar job, an automobile and a house.


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## rickandcindy23 (Sep 2, 2021)

DaveNV said:


> Sounds like Grandma had some mad skills!
> 
> When I was about 13 my Mom made me a poncho of a cool, South American patterned woven fabric.  Very hippie, Peruvian-Incan-Whatever-an.  She basically took a length of fabric folded in half, made a slit for my head along the fold that she edged in seam binding tape, then stitched down the sides partway.  I loved that thing, and wore it for a long time, till I'd outgrown it.  One day it disappeared after a garage sale she held.  I still have my suspicions that she sold it.  The curse of homemade clothing.
> 
> Dave


Grandma did have some mad skills.  She worked as a dressmaker during WWII and made wedding dresses for farm ladies even up until about 1999.  She made the dresses for entire weddings sometimes, and she even made tailored shirts for the gentlemen.  Amazing lady, taught me to sew, and I never really loved it like she did.  I can sew but it's not something I enjoy.  

Love the story of your poncho.  You have to hide those favorite things from Mom, or it disappears.


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## Patri (Sep 2, 2021)

Never thought about it. No one in my small town stood out as rich.


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## vacationtime1 (Sep 2, 2021)

Wealthy - an extra "E" ticket


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## SueDonJ (Sep 2, 2021)

I don't remember thinking about wealth in terms of money as a kid so much as being envious at things my friends' families did in their everyday life that my family did not. My friend Karen had two sisters and their small family was allowed to eat off of TV tables in the den while my large family ate every meal with the 8 oldest kids at the dining room table and the 3 youngest at the kitchen table with Ma and Dad. My friend Ann was the youngest in her family and she got to stay up later at night while I had younger siblings so bedtime was always early at home. My friend Laura's mom baked night and day and she was able to eat goodies whenever she wanted while my mom baked but everything she baked was served after dinner for dessert. The best part about living in that city neighborhood was that sleepovers happened often - and I LOVED being able to do all those enviable things when I slept over at Karen's, Ann's and Laura's.


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## geekette (Sep 2, 2021)

Ty1on said:


> I've given a lot of thought lately that when people are dreaming of financial wealth, they really aren't dreaming of financial wealth.  They are dreaming of being able to have the influence and the perceived public adoration that comes with being wealthy.  I think lottery winners find that the money doesn't bring them influence and adoration at all.  It brings family, friends, and strangers that want a piece of it through begging, borrowing, or stealing.  The fact is that those who have the wealthy lifestyle we glamorize are there because of their ability to influence others and inspire adoration.  When we dreamers seek to be like them, we are chasing the wrong target when we think a windfall of a million dollars or two hundred million dollars will give us that.
> 
> Of course, I am perfectly willing to test that theory.


I think this is generational with room for individual personality.   There weren't always internet influencers or cyber followers of any kind.   I certainly agree that there are those in the Look At Me slice of mankind that want to dress flashy and take selfies with expensive toys and homes and whatnot.   Some people fall backwards to their deaths for a selfie.  Money can't buy common sense, only common cents.  ha, just made that silly thing up...    
Used to be simpler to decide how best to save your family with a lottery winning:  own the homes free and clear, make sure your kinfolk have dependable cars, save for college education for family tree.   On the Maybe Pay For List:    Uncle Phillip's gallstone surgery, Aunt Martha's move into assisted living, Cousin Susie to go to her best friend's destination wedding...      

But first, take the family to Disney Land and make everyone back home watch the vacation slides on that Kodak slide carousel ...    

Zooming forward from the 60s, I still have that mindset:  shore up life's foundations (health, home, transportation, savings, education) and don't forget to have fun.   I've not ever been much of a picture-taker, I prefer to live it and store the memories in my head.   Look at me?  nope, but I've definitely known some in the conspicuous consumption category and it seems to me that much of social media is all about that.


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## clifffaith (Sep 2, 2021)

SueDonJ said:


> I don't remember thinking about wealth in terms of money as a kid so much as being envious at things my friends' families did in their everyday life that my family did not. My friend Karen had two sisters and their small family was allowed to eat off of TV tables in the den while my large family ate every meal with the 8 oldest kids at the dining room table and the 3 youngest at the kitchen table with Ma and Dad. My friend Ann was the youngest in her family and she got to stay up later at night while I had younger siblings so bedtime was always early at home. My friend Laura's mom baked night and day and she was able to eat goodies whenever she wanted while my mom baked but everything she baked was served after dinner for dessert. The best part about living in that city neighborhood was that sleepovers happened often - and I LOVED being able to do all those enviable things when I slept over at Karen's, Ann's and Laura's.



As the oldest I pretty much went to bed when the two younger kids did. As a high school freshman I out my foot down and said I was watching Bonanza on Sunday nights, so I got to stay up until that was over.


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## Glynda (Sep 2, 2021)

b2bailey said:


> I do remember my first pair of capezios -- I think I paid half with money earned babysitting.


 
I remember finally buying my first pair too. I bought them after saving enough from my first "real job." Part-time, after school and weekends working in the dietician's office at the hospital.


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## geoand (Sep 2, 2021)

I remember going to 5 different schools through 4th grade. These schools were in the poorest part of the city and all the kids were non white. Then in summer after 4th grade, my sister, my brother & I were placed in foster home together. That was when I first saw wealth. 5th grade through HS, was my first experience with knowing what wealth was. Couldn’t believe all the great clothes the kids had. I don’t know where my clothes came from. They were old, faded & almost always to large for me. Plus I had to make my clothes last longer than one wearing.


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## easyrider (Sep 2, 2021)

I never thought about wealth as a kid. Dad was in the Army and we lived on base. He died when I was three. Mom made sure that all our needs were met and dads Army buddies made sure we never wanted anything. 

I was about 12 when I realized I needed money to buy things. No one was going to buy me a motorcycle so I got some jobs. My friends dad bought him a nice Honda. That was when It clicked. If your dad can buy you a new motorcycle you must have a wealthy family.

Bill


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## DaveNV (Sep 2, 2021)

easyrider said:


> I never thought about wealth as a kid. Dad was in the Army and we lived on base. He died when I was three. Mom made sure that all our needs were met and dads Army buddies made sure we never wanted anything.
> 
> I was about 12 when I realized I needed money to buy things. No one was going to buy me a motorcycle so I got some jobs. My friends dad bought him a nice Honda. That was when It clicked. If your dad can buy you a new motorcycle you must have a wealthy family.
> 
> Bill



I was in similar straits.  I knew if I wanted to buy something major, I needed to have my own money.  I got my first job at 14, and have never looked back.  I supported myself my entire life, and received no "help" from anyone else.  Nobody in the family had two nickels anyway, so I was on my own.  No regrets, and I've never "wanted" for anything. If I couldn't afford it, I did without. My string of stepfathers were all occupied with their own lives, so had no time for me.  And my real father had his own involvement with my stepmother.  So I was pretty much on my own. It all makes me appreciate what I have now.

Dave


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## PcflEZFlng (Sep 2, 2021)

Growing up in Minnesota, our vacations always consisted of going up north to spend a week with our relatives and then a week at a rented cabin on the lake. Every August, every year. Although those times were fun, it was a major event just to visit another state, which seemed exotic to me as a 7-year-old (we drove to Wisconsin for the first time, yet we lived only _30 miles away_ from Wisconsin!). Later, when I was in ninth grade, a classmate and his family flew to Switzerland to go skiing. I wasn't especially envious of him, but rather I couldn't even imagine such a thing - foreign travel for a kid in 1970!


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## Chrispee (Sep 2, 2021)

It’s funny how wealth is all about perspective. I recently moved from a neighbourhood where we were comparatively “poor”. Everyone around us was hiring help for every day items while we were cutting our own lawn, cleaning our own house, and didn’t have a nanny. We had two newer cars but nothing like our neighbours. Fast forward a year and we have moved to a small community where those same two cars feel like conspicuous consumption when we drop our son off at school.


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## SmithOp (Sep 2, 2021)

Owning a home, we were always renters, in fact my parents never did buy a home. I purchased a home that my father lived in his later years.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro


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## am1 (Sep 2, 2021)

LisaH said:


> Growing up in China in the 60-70s, we were poor just like everyone. I didn't know what wealth meant. My wish was to be able to eat sausages and drink coffee every day.
> Coming to US in the 80s, I wished that one day, I could walk into Macy's and buy whatever I wanted. At the time I could only afford to shop in K-mart.


Pre covid we would only go to the last act section and buy for our kids and Christmas/birthday presents for specific kids or on spec.  Even tjmaxx, Beas outlet, Marshall’s we are mostly at the discount sections.  So walking into a place and buying whatever you want does not mean ones wealthy just May be a fool with some money.


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## am1 (Sep 2, 2021)

bizaro86 said:


> It's interesting how much peoples surroundings affect their perceptions of this. Many have said we didn't have much but everyone was the same.
> 
> By contrast, my family was probably solidly middle class but we always felt poor to me. My parents bought more house (in a better neighbourhood) than they probably should have. That had two consequences
> 
> ...


When it was baseball cards in Ontario it would push the purchase price up over $4 or $5 and tax would then be charged on the whole purchase where as if it was just the meal no tax on any of it.


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## Krteczech (Sep 3, 2021)

TUG, this is such an interesting reading. I grew up in Central Europe, economy and political system sooooo different from US and Canada. I didn’t know what poor meant and I didn’t think about rich either. We had a house, TV, car, summer camps, hot lunches, books, vacations twice a year, week long ski trips… but we spent time in queues waiting for food to be delivered to grocery stores and for new books to come out. I recall wanting a phone, land line to our house. That was a pure luxury and only high ranked had it. Naive as I was, I thought that rich people in USA have large families with many children. I was an only child and there was were few families around with three kids.


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## VacationForever (Sep 3, 2021)

My perception of wealth was not needing to be frugal like my father.  Heck, he had money but he was frugal and I decided that when I grew up I was going to live differently from him.  He died a millionaire but no one could imagine that he was one.


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## heathpack (Sep 3, 2021)

My Mom told me I couldn’t have a Big Wheel because we couldn’t afford it.

So to me, if you had a Big Wheel that meant your family was rich!


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## am1 (Sep 3, 2021)

VacationForever said:


> My perception of wealth was not needing to be frugal like my father.  Heck, he had money but he was frugal and I decided that when I grew up I was going to live differently from him.  He died a millionaire but no one could imagine that he was one.



Your father was a wise man.  Sadly I cannot hide it.  A little due to racism and the businesses I am in and then sadly one of my sons is obsessed with it.  I would be happy to live in obscurity but not possible given the hand I played.


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## klpca (Sep 3, 2021)

The other thing that I thought made you rich was...a two story house  In our town we only had single story ranch style houses and a two story house was the epitome of luxury as far as I could tell.


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## T_R_Oglodyte (Sep 3, 2021)

Krteczech said:


> I grew up in Central Europe, economy and political system sooooo different from US and Canada.


As did my son-in-law.  His parents were divorced, and his mother managed an exit for them, before the dismantling of the Soviet empire.

They came to the US penniless, settled in the San Fernando Valley because his Mom had a brother in the area. He doesn't talk much about those day, but I've been able to deduce that they were poorer here than in Czech(oslovakia).  His Mom worked two jobs most of the time, and he contributed as well when he could.  Neither of them would have swapped their poverty in the US for their lives near Brno.


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## Happytravels (Sep 3, 2021)

DaveNV said:


> I was in similar straits.  I knew if I wanted to buy something major, I needed to have my own money.  I got my first job at 14, and have never looked back.  I supported myself my entire life, and received no "help" from anyone else.  Nobody in the family had two nickels anyway, so I was on my own.  No regrets, and I've never "wanted" for anything. If I couldn't afford it, I did without. My string of stepfathers were all occupied with their own lives, so had no time for me.  And my real father had his own involvement with my stepmother.  So I was pretty much on my own. It all makes me appreciate what I have now.
> 
> Dave


Wow does this remind me of my childhood. My Mom always told me if I wanted something she couldn't afford (which was a lot)  I would have to go out and work for it.  Started babysitting at 12 for family but I wasn't allowed to get paid (I guess they thought I needed experience) But then I got a 'REAL" babysitting job getting paid.  I watched 5 kids and took my little brother (9 yrs younger) with me plus I got to clean the house for $1. per hour.  I thought I was high rolling as it was my money. 
As an adult I have had some hard times but will NEVER FORGET WHERE I CAME FROM.  That has always been my motto. 
Some of my family think we are rich as we love to travel but we go at a lowest cost we can.  Which in turn makes for more trips. 
Some think being frugal means we can't afford somethings.  The things are not important to me.  If you have to WORK FOR IT you will always appreciate it more, of course our kids don't think so. They all struggle to save.  I told them to start out small, got my husband to start saving when we were first married ($5. per week)  he said it couldn't be done and showed it could.
Living debt free is key for less stress!! Hopeful long life of retirement.


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## Luanne (Sep 3, 2021)

klpca said:


> The other thing that I thought made you rich was...a two story house  In our town we only had single story ranch style houses and a two story house was the epitome of luxury as far as I could tell.


The only people I knew that had two story houses were my grandparents and my great aunt and uncle.  So to me owning a two story house meant you were old!


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## klpca (Sep 3, 2021)

Happytravels said:


> Wow does this remind me of my childhood. My Mom always told me if I wanted something she couldn't afford (which was a lot)  I would have to go out and work for it.  Started babysitting at 12 for family but I wasn't allowed to get paid (I guess they thought I needed experience) But then I got a 'REAL" babysitting job getting paid.  I watched 5 kids and took my little brother (9 yrs younger) with me plus I got to clean the house for $1. per hour.  I thought I was high rolling as it was my money.
> As an adult I have had some hard times but will NEVER FORGET WHERE I CAME FROM.  That has always been my motto.
> Some of my family think we are rich as we love to travel but we go at a lowest cost we can.  Which in turn makes for more trips.
> Some think being frugal means we can't afford somethings.  The things are not important to me.  If you have to WORK FOR IT you will always appreciate it more, of course our kids don't think so. They all struggle to save.  I told them to start out small, got my husband to start saving when we were first married ($5. per week)  he said it couldn't be done and showed it could.
> Living debt free is key for less stress!! Hopeful long life of retirement.


Me too. I have been continuously employed in some fashion for the past 48 years. I haven't found my frugality to be particularly healthy because I struggle to part with even the smallest amount of money. I have noticed that others are able to spend without worry. Me, I'm driving through McDonalds to get a $1 iced tea and cannot remember the last time I went to a Starbucks. Or I am bringing my own iced drink to work for the day, lol. On one hand it makes perfect sense to me, on the other hand what is the point of earning money if you never spend any? And if/when you do, you feel guilty. So I am working on that. Of course, somehow, traveling is a definite luxury and I manage to spend some money on that, but not without guilt. And I am always trying to find out how to travel with the least amount of cash outlay by finding "free" things. We rarely do tours, and hike all the time because it is free, lol.


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## PcflEZFlng (Sep 3, 2021)

I learned well from my parents to discern between practical frugality vs. when, using their generational language, it was time to 'splurge'. I brought a sack lunch to school, and I brought a sack lunch and brewed-at-home coffee to work. They were frugal on everyday things, but were willing to spend large on very infrequent, major purchases. Examples for them were our first color TV in 1964, and nice homes. I do value travel experiences more than they did, but that may be more reflective of the times, where travel is now more within reach compared to back then.


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## Ty1on (Sep 3, 2021)

klpca said:


> Me too. I have been continuously employed in some fashion for the past 48 years. I haven't found my frugality to be particularly healthy because I struggle to part with even the smallest amount of money. I have noticed that others are able to spend without worry. Me, I'm driving through McDonalds to get a $1 iced tea and cannot remember the last time I went to a Starbucks. Or I am bringing my own iced drink to work for the day, lol. On one hand it makes perfect sense to me, on the other hand what is the point of earning money if you never spend any? And if/when you do, you feel guilty. So I am working on that. Of course, somehow, traveling is a definite luxury and I manage to spend some money on that, but not without guilt. And I am always trying to find out how to travel with the least amount of cash outlay by finding "free" things. We rarely do tours, and hike all the time because it is free, lol.



You travel, so I can't say you seem to be planning to take all the money to the grave with you.....


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## slip (Sep 3, 2021)

My sister is one who has lived frugal all her life. She always had a great paying job. Her husband works 2 good paying jobs. They have no kids and don't Travel. My sister is retirement age, over 65 but can't believe they have enough to retire on. They literally have millions. 

I don't think either of them will ever be able to relax and enjoy what they have worked so hard for all their lives.


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## DaveNV (Sep 3, 2021)

klpca said:


> I haven't found my frugality to be particularly healthy because I struggle to part with even the smallest amount of money.





PcflEZFlng said:


> They were frugal on everyday things, but were willing to spend large on very infrequent, major purchases.



I worked very hard to be able to "provide" for myself and my family. We were never wealthy (there's that word again...), but we were always comfortable.  After they left home and I was looking ahead toward retirement, it became more about "me."  I was (and still am) careful with money, but I felt it was easier for me to enjoy retirement, doing the things I want to do, with a balanced eye on what is good for today, and what will benefit me tomorrow. 

Now that I'm retired and living my life in the Nevada desert, I'm putting time, energy, and money into my home.  The goal is to make it into the place I want it to be, so I can enjoy living here.  When I'm done with living in this house, I'll likely be done with it all, so the leftover value will go to my heirs.  And at that point, it won't matter to me how much is left.  Leaving a big bank account to my heirs isn't part of my plan, and never has been.  My kids have their own families, and are well-off enough for me not to have to worry about them.  Time to focus on myself.

Dave, still not wealthy, but doing fine.


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## PamMo (Sep 3, 2021)

_What things do you remember using to measure who was wealthy and who wasn't?
Dave _

*People who gave out FULL SIZE candy bars on Halloween!



*


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## b2bailey (Sep 3, 2021)

klpca said:


> Me too. I have been continuously employed in some fashion for the past 48 years. I haven't found my frugality to be particularly healthy because I struggle to part with even the smallest amount of money. I have noticed that others are able to spend without worry. Me, I'm driving through McDonalds to get a $1 iced tea and cannot remember the last time I went to a Starbucks. Or I am bringing my own iced drink to work for the day, lol. On one hand it makes perfect sense to me, on the other hand what is the point of earning money if you never spend any? And if/when you do, you feel guilty. So I am working on that. Of course, somehow, traveling is a definite luxury and I manage to spend some money on that, but not without guilt. And I am always trying to find out how to travel with the least amount of cash outlay by finding "free" things. We rarely do tours, and hike all the time because it is free, lol.


Katherine, you remind me of a dear friend of mine who lives comfortably on the golf course at Lake San Marcos. (I mentioned this because I think you live in that vicinity, + or - A hundred miles). I consider myself to be a bargain hunter and enjoy the hunt. If you gave me $500 to buy a new outfit at Nordstrom. I just couldn't do it. But, there are times I will splurge, on a meal or massage, and enjoy it thoroughly. My friend, however, won't allow herself a moment of pleasure if the $ is too high. (Sometimes I offer to treat her, just to avoid her inner conflicts.) Just this week she sold a condo in Carlsbad, her former home that's been a rental for 10+ years. She was tired of the hassle of being a landlord. She must have cleared a minimum of $500,000 on it. She's joining me in Palm Springs next week, and I'll be curious to observe whether this new nest egg allows her to ENJOY life a bit more. For instance, can we splurge on a club with a cover charge rather than searching for free music at Happy Hour?

B.


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## amycurl (Sep 3, 2021)

Taking a cruise. Owning a single-family house in a non-urban area. Staying more than one or two consecutive nights in a hotel. Staying on-property at Disney World.

Eventually, I did all of those things. 10 year old me is still kind of shocked at that reality. But I am also very aware that people tend to socialize and know more people who are wealthier than they are, rather than the latter. This influences perceptions. I am *well aware* that in comparison to a disturbingly large minority in this country (let alone the world,) I really am rich.


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## easyrider (Sep 3, 2021)

slip said:


> My sister is one who has lived frugal all her life. She always had a great paying job. Her husband works 2 good paying jobs. They have no kids and don't Travel. My sister is retirement age, over 65 but can't believe they have enough to retire on. They literally have millions.
> 
> I don't think either of them will ever be able to relax and enjoy what they have worked so hard for all their lives.



I know people like this. I can't figure it out. I guess their kids will enjoy their wealth eventually.

Bill


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## Luanne (Sep 3, 2021)

easyrider said:


> I know people like this. I can't figure it out. I guess their kids will enjoy their wealth eventually.
> 
> Bill


I never expected my parents to leave me money (they didn't) and I don't expect to leave my children much.


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## amycurl (Sep 3, 2021)

Did none of you qualify for free or reduced lunch? Yes, I took my lunch a lot as a kid, but I also qualified for free and reduced lunch, too (and that's a pretty standardized measurement of "poor.") I went from eating my free and reduced lunch in a very middle-class public school district to eating my free lunch at a private, elite northeast boarding school (okay, so maybe it wasn't *free*---just very, very, very reduced for me in compariason to whatever the "sticker" price of the school was.) Talk about culture shock--and about truly knowing "wealthy" people (let's fly our private jet to the Adriatic for spring break!) for the first time.


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## Ty1on (Sep 3, 2021)

amycurl said:


> Did none of you qualify for free or reduced lunch? Yes, I took my lunch a lot as a kid, but I also qualified for free and reduced lunch, too (and that's a pretty standardized measurement of "poor.") I went from eating my free and reduced lunch in a very middle-class public school district to eating my free lunch at a private, elite northeast boarding school (okay, so maybe it wasn't *free*---just very, very, very reduced for me in compariason to whatever the "sticker" price of the school was.) Talk about culture shock--and about truly knowing "wealthy" people (let's fly our private jet to the Adriatic for spring break!) for the first time.



I was on free lunch for a couple years.  But once they got employed steadily, they made really good money and we didn't qualify.  Casino owners ate superbly.


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## DaveNV (Sep 3, 2021)

My desire to "reward myself" for my hard work all these years is based partially on my Mother's life.  She deferred personal happiness her entire life, always working for the benefit of others. She always said things like, "_Someday_ I'll do..."  or "_Someday_, when I retire I'll..."  Thing is, she retired at 65, didn't have enough savings to not work, so had to go back to work.  At 67 she learned she had Stage 4 colon and liver cancer.  35 days later she died.  Bam!  Gone, just like that.  I swore I'd never allow myself to be put into that situation.  So yes, I worked hard my entire working career, did as I was told, played the part to be the guy my family needed me to be.  But now that I'm retired, it's my turn.  And I intend to treat myself to the perks of a life well-lived.  (Did I mention they start construction on our backyard swimming pool next week?  )

Dave


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## Ty1on (Sep 3, 2021)

DaveNV said:


> My desire to "reward myself" for my hard work all these years is based partially on my Mother's life.  She deferred personal happiness her entire life, always working for the benefit of others. She always said things like, "_Someday_ I'll do..."  or "_Someday_, when I retire I'll..."  Thing is, she retired at 65, didn't have enough savings to not work, so had to go back to work.  At 67 she learned she had Stage 4 colon and liver cancer.  35 days later she died.  Bam!  Gone, just like that.  I swore I'd never allow myself to be put into that situation.  So yes, I worked hard my entire working career, did as I was told, played the part to be the guy my family needed me to be.  But now that I'm retired, it's my turn.  And I intend to treat myself to the perks of a life well-lived.  (Did I mention they start construction on our backyard swimming pool next week?  )
> 
> Dave



I have found that when you put others before yourself, they will do the same (put them before you)


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## DaveNV (Sep 3, 2021)

amycurl said:


> Did none of you qualify for free or reduced lunch? Yes, I took my lunch a lot as a kid, but I also qualified for free and reduced lunch, too (and that's a pretty standardized measurement of "poor.") I went from eating my free and reduced lunch in a very middle-class public school district to eating my free lunch at a private, elite northeast boarding school (okay, so maybe it wasn't *free*---just very, very, very reduced for me in compariason to whatever the "sticker" price of the school was.) Talk about culture shock--and about truly knowing "wealthy" people (let's fly our private jet to the Adriatic for spring break!) for the first time.



We weren't ever a Public Assistance family, so I don't know if my Mom even considered applying for it.  There was always baloney or peanut butter at home, so making a sandwich was always an option.  There were some times I can remember when we had government-issued cheese and powdered milk at home, but we kids weren't ever included in the discussions why.  Mom worked her rear end off to keep a roof over our heads.

Dave


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## Luanne (Sep 3, 2021)

amycurl said:


> Did none of you qualify for free or reduced lunch? Yes, I took my lunch a lot as a kid, but I also qualified for free and reduced lunch, too (and that's a pretty standardized measurement of "poor.") I went from eating my free and reduced lunch in a very middle-class public school district to eating my free lunch at a private, elite northeast boarding school (okay, so maybe it wasn't *free*---just very, very, very reduced for me in compariason to whatever the "sticker" price of the school was.) Talk about culture shock--and about truly knowing "wealthy" people (let's fly our private jet to the Adriatic for spring break!) for the first time.


I don't think we had that option when I was a kid.  As I said, I brought my lunch every day, and was allowed (by my parents) to buy one day a week.


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## klpca (Sep 3, 2021)

amycurl said:


> Did none of you qualify for free or reduced lunch? Yes, I took my lunch a lot as a kid, but I also qualified for free and reduced lunch, too (and that's a pretty standardized measurement of "poor.") I went from eating my free and reduced lunch in a very middle-class public school district to eating my free lunch at a private, elite northeast boarding school (okay, so maybe it wasn't *free*---just very, very, very reduced for me in compariason to whatever the "sticker" price of the school was.) Talk about culture shock--and about truly knowing "wealthy" people (let's fly our private jet to the Adriatic for spring break!) for the first time.


We were on welfare and food stamps for one tough year but I don't remember a free lunch. So who knows? But boy does that experience make you decide that you will never go through it again, whatever it takes! 

Anyway I treat my "money issues" as more of a tic than anything else. We are all just human and have our idiosyncrasies. I think that I am pretty normal  except for my money tic. And I do try to work on it. Funny thing is that two of my three kids have very healthy attitudes about money but the third one is pretty much like me. She didn't go through any tough times (financially) in her childhood so it is odd to me that she is so frugal. And neither one of my siblings worries about money like I do. My sister and I were in Kauai a few years ago. We were leaving our condo (Lawai Beach Resort) and on our way to the car I realized that I had left our restaurant coupon inside. So I said that I was going back to get it. My sister asked me how much the coupon was "$5!" I said. She laughed and told me that she would pay the extra since it was "only" $5. That is the difference between the two of us, lol.


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## b2bailey (Sep 3, 2021)

klpca said:


> We were on welfare and food stamps for one tough year but I don't remember a free lunch. So who knows? But boy does that experience make you decide that you will never go through it again, whatever it takes!
> 
> Anyway I treat my "money issues" as more of a tic than anything else. We are all just human and have our idiosyncrasies. I think that I am pretty normal  except for my money tic. And I do try to work on it. Funny thing is that two of my three kids have very healthy attitudes about money but the third one is pretty much like me. She didn't go through any tough times (financially) in her childhood so it is odd to me that she is so frugal. And neither one of my siblings worries about money like I do. My sister and I were in Kauai a few years ago. We were leaving our condo (Lawai Beach Resort) and on our way to the car I realized that I had left our restaurant coupon inside. So I said that I was going back to get it. My sister asked me how much the coupon was "$5!" I said. She laughed and told me that she would pay the extra since it was "only" $5. That is the difference between the two of us, lol.


$5 Rule in my home started before I married my husband. We were at Kmart buying planting soil. I had chosen that store because of an advertised special. At the register, clerk denied it. I threw a fit. (One of my terrible attributes. )
As we were leaving, John said to me -- "Next time I'll give you the $5."


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## slip (Sep 3, 2021)

easyrider said:


> I know people like this. I can't figure it out. I guess their kids will enjoy their wealth eventually.
> 
> Bill



I don't get it either. They don't even have kids and she put my oldest sister down as the main beneficiary. Who knows why she thinks our older sister will out live her? 

She called me when I told my family I was retiring and she seemed mad because she will be the only one left working. The other thing I don't understand is that she is constantly complaining about her job also. Makes no sense.


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## Ty1on (Sep 3, 2021)

b2bailey said:


> $5 Rule in my home started before I married my husband. We were at Kmart buying planting soil. I had chosen that store because of an advertised special. At the register, clerk denied it. I threw a fit. (One of my terrible attributes. )
> As we were leaving, John said to me -- "Next time I'll give you the $5."



I'm with you.  Money aside, advertised is advertised.


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## T_R_Oglodyte (Sep 3, 2021)

klpca said:


> We were on welfare and food stamps for one tough year but I don't remember a free lunch. So who knows? But boy does that experience make you decide that you will never go through it again, whatever it takes!


My parents would have only gone on welfare or taken food stamps if we were at the point of starvation.  

I do remembers one dinner where the main course was white bread with ketchup.  Every now and then pancakes was the main course at dinner.


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## clifffaith (Sep 3, 2021)

PamMo said:


> _What things do you remember using to measure who was wealthy and who wasn't?
> Dave _
> 
> *People who gave out FULL SIZE candy bars on Halloween!
> ...



Full size, or back in the day they had small flat Halloween printed gift bags maybe 4"x 8", that would be packed with multiple items and twisted closed. The house catty corner across the street from us, otherwise known as the home where Mr. Grump and his non-English speaking mother lived, could be counted on those each year. I did that myself only once, and felt I didn't get enough oohs and ahs. Now I get my appreciative feedback from handing out bouncey balls which are a big hit with the kids (and our cat Jackson).


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## PigsDad (Sep 3, 2021)

T_R_Oglodyte said:


> My parents would have only gone on welfare or taken food stamps if we were at the point of starvation.



Yep, the same here.  I am quite sure we qualified for free or at least reduced price lunch at school, but we never applied for it.  I do remember receiving "government cheese" however.



> Every now and then pancakes was the main course at dinner.


Oh heck, pancakes is the main course for dinner occasionally at our house all the time!  Love me some breakfast-for-dinner. 

Kurt


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## rhonda (Sep 3, 2021)

We had a nice home on the river ... but the neighbors across the street, a doctor and his family, had a huge, white mansion with a wide, sweeping lawn all the way down to the waterfront.  Their house had 3 story white columns front and back ... and a gazebo down near the water.  They held summer soirees on the lawn ... looked so fab.  That picture was my childhood image of 'wealth.'  Sigh.


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## clifffaith (Sep 3, 2021)

amycurl said:


> Did none of you qualify for free or reduced lunch? Yes, I took my lunch a lot as a kid, but I also qualified for free and reduced lunch, too (and that's a pretty standardized measurement of "poor.") I went from eating my free and reduced lunch in a very middle-class public school district to eating my free lunch at a private, elite northeast boarding school (okay, so maybe it wasn't *free*---just very, very, very reduced for me in compariason to whatever the "sticker" price of the school was.) Talk about culture shock--and about truly knowing "wealthy" people (let's fly our private jet to the Adriatic for spring break!) for the first time.



I would be surprised to learn that the K-6 school down the block from us in the 1960s had reduced/free lunch. Everyone stood in line by classroom with their 35 cents, or went directly to the sack lunch tables in a different area with their dime for milk, or as I often did, went home for lunch. But at the junior high, which pulled from a much wider area, I am sure based on seeing kids who I would deem to have been less advantaged, there must have been a lunch program although I was oblivious to it.


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## klpca (Sep 3, 2021)

T_R_Oglodyte said:


> My parents would have only gone on welfare or taken food stamps if we were at the point of starvation.
> 
> I do remembers one dinner where the main course was white bread with ketchup.  Every now and then pancakes was the main course at dinner.


We had no money. My dad left the family and no other family  members would help my mom. She had no skills but got a job as a school aide, then was laid off in a recession in 1973 I think. I still remember that his child support for us (1970's) was $120 per month total for 3 kids, and that our mortgage was $150. It was an ugly unpleasant time of life. But never fear, she got a job selling AllState Insurance and eventually bought her own agency. And as I have said I have never not worked since I was 12. No slouches here, but I am grateful that there was some help when we needed it. 

Btw, I'm not whining about anything. It was just our reality but we got through it.


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## easyrider (Sep 3, 2021)

PamMo said:


> _What things do you remember using to measure who was wealthy and who wasn't?
> Dave _
> 
> *People who gave out FULL SIZE candy bars on Halloween!
> ...



That has been us since the 90's. We figure if any kid climbed the 57 steps to the door they deserve a really big candy bar. We get these from Costco and probably only gave out a dozen or so, then the rest are mine, heh heh heh.

Bill


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## DaveNV (Sep 3, 2021)

easyrider said:


> That has been us since the 90's. We figure if any kid climbed the 57 steps to the door they deserve a really big candy bar. We get these from Costco and probably only gave out a dozen or so, then the rest are mine, heh heh heh.
> 
> Bill



Always, always, ALWAYS buy the kind of candy to give away that you enjoy eating.  Just in case nobody shows up. 

Dave


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## klpca (Sep 3, 2021)

DaveNV said:


> Always, always, ALWAYS buy the kind of candy to give away that you enjoy eating.  Just in case nobody shows up.
> 
> Dave


I just give out Sees now.


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## PcflEZFlng (Sep 3, 2021)

DaveNV said:


> My desire to "reward myself" for my hard work all these years is based partially on my Mother's life.  She deferred personal happiness her entire life, always working for the benefit of others. She always said things like, "_Someday_ I'll do..."  or "_Someday_, when I retire I'll..." Thing is, she retired at 65, didn't have enough savings to not work, so had to go back to work. At 67 she learned she had Stage 4 colon and liver cancer. 35 days later she died. Bam! Gone, just like that. I swore I'd never allow myself to be put into that situation. So yes, I worked hard my entire working career, did as I was told, played the part to be the guy my family needed me to be. But now that I'm retired, it's my turn. And I intend to treat myself to the perks of a life well-lived. (Did I mention they start construction on our backyard swimming pool next week? )
> 
> Dave


This resonates with me. The biggest reason I cited for quitting work at 61 was that my mother died of cancer at 68 and my dad started getting dementia at 70, so how much time do I have left to finally enjoy the fruits of my labor? I'm in my mid-60s and the 'check engine light' is already on!


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## DaveNV (Sep 3, 2021)

PcflEZFlng said:


> This resonates with me. The biggest reason I cited for quitting work at 61 was that my mother died of cancer at 68 and my dad started getting dementia at 70, so how much time do I have left to finally enjoy the fruits of my labor? I'm in my mid-60s and the 'check engine light' is already on!



I fully understand.  My Mom died at 67.  I *just* turned 68.  It was a wipe-the-brow kind of birthday for me.  I feel like I've passed a major marker.  Now, to beat my Dad.  He died of classic "hardening of the arteries" at 79. Stay tuned.

Dave


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## slip (Sep 3, 2021)

PcflEZFlng said:


> This resonates with me. The biggest reason I cited for quitting work at 61 was that my mother died of cancer at 68 and my dad started getting dementia at 70, so how much time do I have left to finally enjoy the fruits of my labor? I'm in my mid-60s and the 'check engine light' is already on!



My father tried to retire at 55 but there was a recession at the time and it took 2.5 years to sell his house. He owned his retirement home in Wisconsin but it took that long to sell the hose in Chicago. So he was 58 when he retired and had a very low key but I can to he enjoyed his retirement.   He passed away just before his 78th birthday. My mother live until 86 and just passed 3 years ago.  

They both did well in retirement and if I can match that I will be happy. When my father had a 6 bypass about 5 years before he died is when I really started to get serious about what I was going to do to retire. 

So as it ends up, I will be the same age as my father when I retire. The rest of my family worked 5 to 13 years longer. I have one brother who just turned 70 and he just went part time. He worked for a fee companies that when under during his career and that set him back some but I'm sure he really doesn't have to work. And then my sister I mentioned before. She just sent me a message today complaining that she is working this weekend and is only off for the holiday. I sent her a message back and told her to quit. She never answered.


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## b2bailey (Sep 4, 2021)

DaveNV said:


> Always, always, ALWAYS buy the kind of candy to give away that you enjoy eating.  Just in case nobody shows up.
> 
> Dave


Or, for me, borderline diabetic -- NEVER buy the kind I like to eat.


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## amycurl (Sep 4, 2021)

To be clear, free and reduced lunch is not the same as AFDC benefits (welfare) or food stamps (although we were on those for awhile, too.) They are three separate and distinct programs,

Also, poverty is systemic, and not a character flaw. In my mother’s case, it had to do with a divorce, raising a young child, and going back to graduate school to get an advanced medical degree. I am dismayed by the judgement of some of you in this thread. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## b2bailey (Sep 4, 2021)

amycurl said:


> To be clear, free and reduced lunch is not the same as AFDC benefits (welfare) or food stamps (although we were on those for awhile, too.) They are three separate and distinct programs,
> 
> Also, poverty is systemic, and not a character flaw. In my mother’s case, it had to do with a divorce, raising a young child, and going back to graduate school to get an advanced medical degree. I am dismayed by the judgement of some of you in this thread.
> 
> ...


I was recently at my daughter's home (Northern CA Bay Area) just before school started. Her boys have nearly always brought lunch from home. Somehow the topic of school lunches came up, and I was shocked when my daughter told them they could eat the hot lunch at school because it was being provided free of charge. I looked at her with eyebrow raised -- knowing she has a six figure income. She told me the school sent a letter saying all students were eligible for free lunch. So, turns out there is such a thing...


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## Snazzylass (Sep 4, 2021)

klpca said:


> We had no money. My dad left the family and no other family  members would help my mom. She had no skills but got a job as a school aide, then was laid off in a recession in 1973 I think. I still remember that his child support for us (1970's) was $120 per month total for 3 kids, and that our mortgage was $150. It was an ugly unpleasant time of life. But never fear, she got a job selling AllState Insurance and eventually bought her own agency. And as I have said I have never not worked since I was 12. No slouches here, but I am grateful that there was some help when we needed it.
> 
> Btw, I'm not whining about anything. It was just our reality but we got through it.


I love this story about your mom! That's quite an accomplishment! And, if you are passing out See's...well, good for you!


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## Snazzylass (Sep 4, 2021)

amycurl said:


> To be clear, free and reduced lunch is not the same as AFDC benefits (welfare) or food stamps (although we were on those for awhile, too.) They are three separate and distinct programs,
> 
> Also, poverty is systemic, and not a character flaw. In my mother’s case, it had to do with a divorce, raising a young child, and going back to graduate school to get an advanced medical degree. I am dismayed by the judgement of some of you in this thread.
> 
> ...


What post did I miss? 

Divorce = bad times for women and kids. Single moms is NOT a concept our culture should be promoting. I'm speaking from personal experience. Only my job in the corporate world saved me, and the great benefits were everything, especially providing braces for my kids.

My ex was a disaster on many levels. While I was pregnant, I sold all my clothes to keep food on the table. When I went back to work, I had 3 dresses and one was a maternity dress. Luckily, I was in outside sales and only went into the office once a week. So, with careful rotation, no one knew.

After he left, I read library books to my kids all summer for Wendy's coupons - again to eat. We'd share a happy meal. We got by.

Being resourceful is everything! To me, the idea of wealth was a full tank of gas and $20 in my pocket, which probably explains why I could marry such a dreamer. My parents bought a business and put us all to work - me at age 8. You kind of learn to provide and survive and figure out what's important and what's not.


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## Free2Roam (Sep 4, 2021)

b2bailey said:


> I was recently at my daughter's home (Northern CA Bay Area) just before school started. Her boys have nearly always brought lunch from home. Somehow the topic of school lunches came up, and I was shocked when my daughter told them they could eat the hot lunch at school because it was being provided free of charge. I looked at her with eyebrow raised -- knowing she has a six figure income. She told me the school sent a letter saying all students were eligible for free lunch. So, turns out there is such a thing...


This is due to the pandemic. The USDA is funding school meals (reimbursing schools for the cost) for all students regardless of income level thru this school year.


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## Passepartout (Sep 4, 2021)

I grew up 'comfortable' in a single earner family- think Leave It To Beaver. Our 'wealthy' neighbors down the block got a TV a couple of years before us. Back in maybe 1952-53. We still had that Philco B&W in 1970. It didn't matter much, there were only 3 channels.

Growing up, we got vacations, and they were VERY cool. Dad was an insurance sales manager, and he worked hard to make his goals. In turn, his company would have conventions in resort places. I remember a chartered train to Jasper Nat'l Park, and another where the company took over The Chateau Lake Louise. But on our own, it was 'light housekeeping' cabins. Mom would inspect them before we were allowed to check in. There was always some fly fishing, or horseback riding involved. 

I have always been an early riser, so at 12, I started delivering newspapers. I liked having my own money, and that didn't change. 

We talked money around the dinner table, and I remember one conversation my parents had about buying a new house. (1956) There was much discussion on whether they could afford the $99 payments.

Jim


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## VacationForever (Sep 4, 2021)

While I agree most single mothers mean poverty and disaster for the mothers and their children, there are exceptions.  I had a new/first husband who decided chasing money overseas for more than half a decade was the most important thing in his life and was verbally abusive when home. With his kid, I left him after 10 years. I am well educated, made great money and had always worked since I graduated.  I started from scratch because I spent most of my money on the home and decided to leave to save my sanity.  Leaving him was one of the best decisions which I made in my life and marrying him and having a child with him being the worst.


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## SueDonJ (Sep 4, 2021)

amycurl said:


> To be clear, free and reduced lunch is not the same as AFDC benefits (welfare) or food stamps (although we were on those for awhile, too.) They are three separate and distinct programs,
> 
> Also, poverty is systemic, and not a character flaw. In my mother’s case, it had to do with a divorce, raising a young child, and going back to graduate school to get an advanced medical degree. I am dismayed by the judgement of some of you in this thread.
> 
> ...




I'm with you, Amy. I've written before about my family's circumstances - 11 children, dad hospitalized for a year with TB when the youngest was 1-2 and the oldest 15-16, mom fought with all she had to get her hands on every single entitlement for which we qualified _because the alternative was that our family would be broken up and we'd be separated into different foster homes_.

During the late 60's through late 70's as a student in the Boston Public Schools system I and many of my classmates were eligible for free lunches. I don't remember a stigma about it. (If you're at all familiar with BPS during that time period, the only stigma that righteous people spent way too much time and energy on was keeping the schools segregated and keeping the better teachers/supplies in only "certain" schools.)

"There is no shame in putting out your hand for available aid when you have exhausted all remedies at your disposal."

Some of you need to stay after school and write this on the blackboard 100 times.


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## am1 (Sep 4, 2021)

Snazzylass said:


> What post did I miss?
> 
> Divorce = bad times for women and kids. Single moms is NOT a concept our culture should be promoting.


Divorce is not that great for men from what I see.  Having to pay a lot out in child support, little say in parenting and guilty until proven not on the eyes of the court.  It should start out 50/50 who keeps the house and custody and go from there.  

Kids proven not toga e their fathers dna should not be entitled to child support.  The mom should be sued for fraud.  

As far as single mom families goes there is a lot of promotion for it and that a traditional family unit includes two parents is offensive. But the powers that be do not want to address that but would rather just throw money at the problem.


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## DaveNV (Sep 4, 2021)

I did not intend this thread to become a comparison or judgment of anyone based on decisions they made or experiences they had in life.  It was a question about perception. How did you perceive the wealthy people lived their lives differently than how you lived yours?  My example of taking vacations that didn't involve sleeping in a tent was one way things differed.  Another comes to mind:  Flying somewhere for any reason that was not for work or moving to a new city.  So an out-of-state vacation would fit that, and not traveling to stay with relatives.  In my world, wealthy kids went to Summer camp.

I remember in junior high school, one of the coolest kids (who I figured was also one of the richest kids around) came to school wearing the latest style shoe (I think they were called Floaters.)  Everybody thought he was "all that," and over the next few weeks a bunch of other kids started wearing them, too.  I thought I should maybe try to find the money to buy a pair so I could also be one of the cool kids.  Then one day while changing clothes for gym class I heard him complaining to a friend of his that he hated how his Mother always bought him these stupid clothes and made him wear them.  The idea had never occurred to me to have new clothes and not liking them, then being forced to wear them.  It was a wake up call to me, and I realized being fashionable was a lot about what others thought, and not so much about how it made the wearer feel. That probably affects me to this day - I dress to feel good about myself, and not for what others think of me.

Dave


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## SueDonJ (Sep 4, 2021)

DaveNV said:


> I fully understand.  My Mom died at 67.  I *just* turned 68.  It was a wipe-the-brow kind of birthday for me.  I feel like I've passed a major marker.  Now, to beat my Dad.  He died of classic "hardening of the arteries" at 79. Stay tuned.
> 
> Dave



I was 28 when my mom died at 53 (similar to your mom, Dave, colon cancer diagnosed and then 26 days later, bam!) and 11 months later my dad at 54. I'm 61 and feel very fortunate at this point. I'm healthy, I've lost only one of my siblings to an accident when he was 23, but every day since I turned 54 I have felt like I'm living on borrowed time. My siblings all feel the same.


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## rickandcindy23 (Sep 4, 2021)

heathpack said:


> My Mom told me I couldn’t have a Big Wheel because we couldn’t afford it.
> 
> So to me, if you had a Big Wheel that meant your family was rich!
> 
> View attachment 39529


I think our son wore out his Big Wheels in about two months, then he wore out his brother's and then I bought him a new one.  It was better than having him bored all of the time.  He was a crazy kid on that thing.  Funny that you don't see those anymore.  I did get my granddaughter a tricycle, but it is a Schwinn metal one.  Same thing, but I think the Big Wheel is easier to pedal.


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## rickandcindy23 (Sep 4, 2021)

SueDonJ said:


> I was 28 when my mom died at 53 (similar to your mom, Dave, colon cancer diagnosed and then 26 days later, bam!) and 11 months later my dad at 54. I'm 61 and feel very fortunate at this point. I'm healthy, I've lost only one of my siblings to an accident when he was 23, but every day since I turned 54 I have felt like I'm living on borrowed time. My siblings all feel the same.


More vacation is in order with plenty of fun times.  I think it makes us live longer to take more vacations.  So sorry about your family's loss of your parents at such a young age and the loss of a sibling at 23.  Very sad.  On the other hand, a huge family, and that sounds wonderful to me.


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## geist1223 (Sep 4, 2021)

Actually many schools in Oregon have gone to the Model of free Hot Lunch for all. The Administrative hassle and the Cost of maintaining the Records when limited to only federally entitled students is so great that the school district saves money by opening it up to all students.


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## SueDonJ (Sep 4, 2021)

It's interesting reading all the responses. It's also bringing back memories that haven't seen the light of day for quite some time.

In my Irish-Catholic neighborhood in Boston it wasn't unusual to live in big Victorian homes because many families were too large to live in anything smaller! It wasn't unusual to be eligible for free school lunches because most of my classmates were in that line with me. It wasn't unusual to be envious of the things that friends had, but they were envious of what I had at the time, too. My friend Karen had every new Barbie accessory which I drooled over, but not having any brothers she desperately wanted the Hot Wheels racetracks that my brothers let me play with. My friend Beth loved to eat over when mom made a big pot of spaghetti sauce with meatballs, but her dad worked at the local fruit market and I wanted cantaloupe in my fridge, too! Ann's dad was a cop who wore a cool uniform, before getting sick my dad wore a white butcher coat that was not nearly as cool.

One thing in our neighborhood that didn't seem unusual at the time but I guess may have been, was that the kids in families passed down jobs to their younger siblings. My family had the morning Boston Globe and evening Boston Record American paper routes, so during junior high it was my turn to deliver the Globe in the neighborhood. Another family had the job of mowing lawns for the three or four eldest neighbors. Another family "owned" the most lucrative snow-shoveling jobs, another the daily walk to the grocery for milk, bread, cigarettes and the weekly Argus Citizen ...

Maybe that's another reason I don't remember feeling that my family was poor, because during the formative years when I would have noticed it most I was earning a couple bucks?


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## pittle (Sep 4, 2021)

We moved a lot until I was 12.  My parents bought a 1200 SF house with 3 bedrooms 1-bathroom. It was nice enough, but I made a great friend at school whose Dad was a lawyer.  The first time I visited for a sleep-over, I determined that "wealth" was a 2-story brick house where every kid had their own bedroom and the house had 3 bathrooms!  The mother had her own car, got her hair done each week and wore store-bought clothes and nice jewelry!


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## RX8 (Sep 4, 2021)

When I was a kid I used to think anyone who had a fancy new car had to have been rich.

edited to add:  as far as I remember, my family never had a new car so that likely skewed my thinking.


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## clifffaith (Sep 4, 2021)

b2bailey said:


> Or, for me, borderline diabetic -- NEVER buy the kind I like to eat.



That's why I bought a lot of 500 bouncey balls (known as super balls in my day) on eBay. Been giving those out for several years now and the kids are thrilled. Tried buying candy I don't like, then found myself eating malted milk balls -- yuck, better to have spent the calories on Snickers!


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## Free2Roam (Sep 4, 2021)

About 20 years ago, when we were visiting with some friends, my son (8 years old at the time) announced very loudly that they must be rich or hit the lottery because they had a pool table.


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## DaveNV (Sep 4, 2021)

SueDonJ said:


> I was 28 when my mom died at 53 (similar to your mom, Dave, colon cancer diagnosed and then 26 days later, bam!) and 11 months later my dad at 54. I'm 61 and feel very fortunate at this point. I'm healthy, I've lost only one of my siblings to an accident when he was 23, but every day since I turned 54 I have felt like I'm living on borrowed time. My siblings all feel the same.



That's sad news, Sue.  My Mom hated going to the doctor, so ignored all the stomach and midsection pains she was experiencing. She self-medicated with a lot of Ginger Ale (cures any stomach issue, doncha know...) When she finally went to the doctor she got the bad news that she was terminal.  It was a sad waste of a life, I think.  Easy to second-guess the situation, of course, and postulate "What if?" scenarios.  But I think she came by it honestly - her mother passed at 50 for unknown reasons.  Mom always said her goal was to outlive her mother, so when she did, she felt better.  Oddly, now that I've outlived mine, I feel kind of the same.

A bit more concerning for me was losing my older brother to pancreatic cancer two years ago.  He also hated going to the doctor, and when he was too sick to not go to the emergency room, it was all over for him.  He passed 10 weeks later.  I hope to not be like either of them.  My doctor and I are on very familiar terms.  

Dave


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## Luanne (Sep 4, 2021)

DaveNV said:


> That's sad news, Sue.  My Mom hated going to the doctor, so ignored all the stomach and midsection pains she was experiencing. She self-medicated with a lot of Ginger Ale (cures any stomach issue, doncha know...) When she finally went to the doctor she got the bad news that she was terminal.  It was a sad waste of a life, I think.  Easy to second-guess the situation, of course, and postulate "What if?" scenarios.  But I think she came by it honestly - her mother passed at 50 for unknown reasons.  Mom always said her goal was to outlive her mother, so when she did, she felt better.  Oddly, now that I've outlived mine, I feel kind of the same.
> 
> A bit more concerning for me was losing my older brother to pancreatic cancer two years ago.  He also hated going to the doctor, and when he was too sick to not go to the emergency room, it was all over for him.  He passed 10 weeks later.  I hope to not be like either of them.  My doctor and I are on very familiar terms.
> 
> Dave


Dave, my father passed from pancreatic cancer.  He had been taking good care of himself for years.  Had some heart issues, had surgery.  But when the cancer hit it wasn't diagnosed for quite awhile.  Not through any fault of Dad's, and really not through any fault of his doctors.  It's just something that is very hard to diagnose, and once it's diagnosed it's usually too late to do anything. Dad didn't want chemo or radiation as it wouldn't buy him more than a few months.  He was in his late 70's and felt he had lived a good life, and far longer than he ever thought he would.  He thought he wasn't going to come home after WWII so every day after that was a gift.  He passed about 6 weeks after his diagnosis.  I was so glad I was able to be there when he did.  He died at home and I happened to have planned a visit for that weekend.


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## DaveNV (Sep 4, 2021)

Luanne said:


> Dave, my father passed from pancreatic cancer.  He had been taking good care of himself for years.  Had some heart issues, had surgery.  But when the cancer hit it wasn't diagnosed for quite awhile.  Not through any fault of Dad's, and really not through any fault of his doctors.  It's just something that is very hard to diagnose, and once it's diagnosed it's usually too late to do anything. Dad didn't want chemo or radiation as it wouldn't buy him more than a few months.  He was in his late 70's and felt he had lived a good life, and far longer than he ever thought he would.  He thought he wasn't going to come home after WWII so every day after that was a gift.  He passed about 6 weeks after his diagnosis.  I was so glad I was able to be there when he did.  He died at home and I happened to have planned a visit for that weekend.



I know it's insidious.  My brother wasn't a chemo candidate, for other medical reasons.  It was sad to lose him at just 70 years of age.

Dave


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## rickandcindy23 (Sep 4, 2021)

b2bailey said:


> I was recently at my daughter's home (Northern CA Bay Area) just before school started. Her boys have nearly always brought lunch from home. Somehow the topic of school lunches came up, and I was shocked when my daughter told them they could eat the hot lunch at school because it was being provided free of charge. I looked at her with eyebrow raised -- knowing she has a six figure income. She told me the school sent a letter saying all students were eligible for free lunch. So, turns out there is such a thing...


Yes, this is true in our school district.  School lunches are free for everyone.


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## isisdave (Sep 4, 2021)

RX8 said:


> When I was a kid I used to think anyone who had a fancy new car had to have been rich.
> 
> edited to add:  as far as I remember, my family never had a new car so that likely skewed my thinking.



Our neighbors had two identical Lincoln Continentals, some sort of near-pink color, in their garage.  Occasionally they would leave the door open and we'd see the cars. They also had one of those aluminum Christmas trees with colored lights projecting onto it. In six years of living next door, I never saw the people     -- not even once.  But I thought that twin Continentals meant they were rich.


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## DaveNV (Sep 4, 2021)

isisdave said:


> Our neighbors had two identical Lincoln Continentals, some sort of near-pink color, in their garage.  Occasionally they would leave the door open and we'd see the cars. They also had one of those aluminum Christmas trees with colored lights projecting onto it. In six years of living next door, I never saw the people     -- not even once.  But I thought that twin Continentals meant they were rich.



Maybe they were great Mary Kay salespeople? 

I understand about the "new car" thing.  My stepfather (#5 of 6 - seriously!) had a thing about getting some really nice cars for next to nothing. They usually had blown engines, or needed some over-the-top repair, and few were drivable on arrival.  He could always figure some way to get the car running.  He'd drive it for a few weeks, and then sell it for a profit.  But instead of using the money to get the family a better car, he'd drag home another fixer upper.  At one time I think we had nine pseudo-nice cars around our house, which I'm sure made the neighbors think we were stinking wealthy.  Nothing could be further from the truth.

After I left home and was on my own, about six years later I bought my first brand new car.  I remember feeling like I'd made the big time.  Of course, it was just a '74 Ford Pinto Station Wagon, but hey - to a poor sailor, I was stylin'! 

Dave


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## klpca (Sep 4, 2021)

Snazzylass said:


> And, if you are passing out See's...well, good for you!


Our neighborhood has aged so there aren't too many kids anymore plus we live on a hill, so we are lucky to get 10-15 kids. Since I'm going to have to eat the leftovers, Sees it is! Of course, it's me so I have bought the discount vouchers at Costco (using my executive membership and Costco Citi card) before using them at the Sees shop.


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## stmartinfan (Sep 4, 2021)

I think my parent's limited funds has lived on in me through my love of a bargain!  I'm a coupon clipper, plan some of my meals based on what meat's on sale, wait for a sale to buy many of my clothes, and shop for a good price on major purchases like cars. We never deprive ourselves, travel lots and don't feel guilty about indulging in things we want, like fine dining, and helping our kids But I still marvel at our good financial situation and so shop wisely when it's easy to do.


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## RX8 (Sep 4, 2021)

DaveNV said:


> '74 Ford Pinto Station Wagon
> 
> Dave



That car was the BOMB, so to speak.


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## dioxide45 (Sep 4, 2021)

I didn't think too much about wealth growing up. In elementary school some kid went on a winter vacation and came back with a tan (I figured they had money). In high school, one of my classmates dad was my dentist. I figured they had money, but didn't care much about it. My dad worked for the city and our vacations were mostly in an RV. Our big trip one year though was a four-week trip across the continent and back. From Toronto to Vancouver through Canada and back through the United States.


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## Breezy52 (Sep 4, 2021)

I lived in a neighborhood where there seemed to be 2 financial classes, Those with threadbare furniture and those with plastic covered furniture. I so thought they were rich. Now I think if you’re rich you don’t worry about the furniture quite so much.


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## BJRSanDiego (Sep 4, 2021)

I have been enjoying all of the comments that are being posted of not only what the posters thought were rich people but also their general life experiences.

One of my earlier recollections that I vividly remember (I was perhaps 3 or 4 years old?) was getting water for my Dad.  He had a heart attack and had to take some pills every few hours.  My older brother was in elementary school.  And my mother began cleaning houses in order to put food on the table and pay the mortgage on our house.  My mother would get us fed before she left the house and my brother would briefly come home at lunch time to feed me a sandwich.  So, in the morning and in the afternoon I was left alone.  I was told to play by myself and not get into trouble.  I was also told to make sure that I was quiet because my Dad was resting and trying/hoping to recover from the heart attack.  Periodically during the day he would call me to get him a glass of water to take his pills.  I still remember him telling me to NOT let the water run to long.  That was because I was so short that I could only reach the hot water faucet !!  As a family unit of four people we sure pulled together as a team!  A vivid recollection.


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## DaveNV (Sep 4, 2021)

RX8 said:


> That car was the BOMB, so to speak.



Not while I had mine.   I upgraded to a full-szed Ford cargo van a few years later. Couldn't wait to make it a weekend party van - bed and all. 

Dave


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## billymach4 (Sep 4, 2021)

Having  a million in the bank


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## pedro47 (Sep 4, 2021)

Owning stocks and drivinig a new Lincoln or a Cadilac. LOL


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## pedro47 (Sep 4, 2021)

T_R_Oglodyte said:


> Yes. I would add -
> 
> Having a pair of sneakers as well as a pair of leather shoes. Also having a pair of new shoes that were only one size too large.


Having a new pair of Chuck Taylor Converse basketball shoes, your own bedroom with a small color television and your own bathroom with a shower.


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## DaveNV (Sep 4, 2021)

pedro47 said:


> Having a new pair of Chuck Taylor Converse basketball shoes, your own bedroom with a small color telvision and your own bathroom with a shower.



That sounds like my first apartment after I left home. 

Dave


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## billymach4 (Sep 4, 2021)

billymach4 said:


> Having  a million in the bank


Now with inflation it's 15 to 20 million and 500K annual income.


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## heathpack (Sep 4, 2021)

rickandcindy23 said:


> I think our son wore out his Big Wheels in about two months, then he wore out his brother's and then I bought him a new one.  It was better than having him bored all of the time.  He was a crazy kid on that thing.  Funny that you don't see those anymore.  I did get my granddaughter a tricycle, but it is a Schwinn metal one.  Same thing, but I think the Big Wheel is easier to pedal.



Damn rich kids!


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## Quiet Pine (Sep 4, 2021)

When I was growing up in the '50s, we lived on Long Island, a suburb of New York City. In our town, the rich people lived in the Estates, where houses cost $50,000.  I thought being rich would be living in a $50,000 house!


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## PigsDad (Sep 5, 2021)

Quiet Pine said:


> When I was growing up in the '50s, we lived on Long Island, a suburb of New York City. In our town, the rich people lived in the Estates, where houses cost $50,000.  I thought being rich would be living in a $50,000 house!


Yes, but those are probably multi-million dollar homes now, right?

Kurt


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## pedro47 (Sep 5, 2021)

Flying first class on an airplane, taking a cruise on the Cunard Queen Mary to London and a million dollars in the bank. Times have changed in the fifty years.


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## Quiet Pine (Sep 5, 2021)

PigsDad said:


> Yes, but those are probably multi-million dollar homes now, right? Kurt


Undoubtedly. Our $15,000 (1950) house is estimated by Zillow at $1,236,400.


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## Brett (Sep 5, 2021)

Quiet Pine said:


> Undoubtedly. Our $15,000 (1950) house is estimated by Zillow at $1,236,400.



yes, good location
the $15,000 (1950) house in Detroit, MI might be worth less now in 1950 dollars


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## b2bailey (Sep 5, 2021)

PigsDad said:


> Yes, but those are probably multi-million dollar homes now, right?
> 
> Kurt


Somehow the $500,000 mark is stuck in my head from early childhood. In San Jose CA, my parents bought a brand new, 4 bed, 2 bath track home for less than $20,000. I'm sure my friends and family are tired of hearing me say: "I remember when $500,000 would buy a mansion."


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## Snazzylass (Sep 5, 2021)

am1 said:


> Divorce is not that great for men from what I see.  Having to pay a lot out in child support, little say in parenting and guilty until proven not on the eyes of the court.  It should start out 50/50 who keeps the house and custody and go from there.
> 
> Kids proven not toga e their fathers dna should not be entitled to child support.  The mom should be sued for fraud.
> 
> As far as single mom families goes there is a lot of promotion for it and that a traditional family unit includes two parents is offensive. But the powers that be do not want to address that but would rather just throw money at the problem.


So true! No one wins in a divorce. For the dad, I've seen where it can cause him to lose his purpose and will to live


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## TravelTime (Sep 5, 2021)

When I was a kid, I saw a lot of wealth around us. I grew up in Miami and there was clearly a rich / poor divide. I lived right outside the border of Coral Gables. I used to ride my bike in Coral Gables and saw all the beautiful homes in the established areas down Granda Blvd and into Old Cutler. I thought living there meant you were rich. And I was right! I remember when a second or third cousin of mine bought a house on the Bay in Old Cutler for $500,000. I thought he was rich. Now $500,000 would not buy anything in Coral Gables and certainly not on the water.


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## MrockStar (Sep 5, 2021)

Brett said:


> yes, good location
> the $15,000 (1950) house in Detroit, MI might be worth less now in 1950 dollars


It depends on the location/area some like most cities are on the upswing desirable and some not so much.


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## Big Matt (Sep 5, 2021)

I'm a little late to this thread.  Many people are talking about small, material things that they didn't have.  I'll throw out some things that are hard to imagine for most people.  Growing up in Williamsburg, Virginia there were about a dozen families who had so much wealth that nobody ever worked in those families.  Most had tens of thousands of acres of real estate along the James river.  When I name family names like Carter, Tyler, Hall, Wallace, etc. you can trace those names back to Colonial times.  They also owned many of the key businesses in town.  Generational wealth is hard to imagine for most people including me.


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## pedro47 (Sep 5, 2021)

When I served in the USMC in the late sixties, going to HHI was only for the rich. That was over 50 years ago.
Plus, taking  two (2) consecutive  week vacation. You were rich or upper middle class.

Now,  two (2) consecutive week vacation are standard marching orders for us. LOL


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## DaveNV (Sep 5, 2021)

Big Matt said:


> I'm a little late to this thread.  Many people are talking about small, material things that they didn't have.  I'll throw out some things that are hard to imagine for most people.  Growing up in Williamsburg, Virginia there were about a dozen families who had so much wealth that nobody ever worked in those families.  Most had tens of thousands of acres of real estate along the James river.  When I name family names like Carter, Tyler, Hall, Wallace, etc. you can trace those names back to Colonial times.  They also owned many of the key businesses in town.  Generational wealth is hard to imagine for most people including me.



Awesome example.  Generational wealth on that scale is beyond the imagination of most people.  The closest I can relate to it in the main town I lived in growing up was a certain neighborhood that had all the grand Victorian homes on the bluff overlooking the bay. There were some incredible places there.  Those homes were built by the extremely rich families of the early settlers of the area.  Certain homes were known by the family name, aka the Roeder Home, the Eldridge home, or the Loggie Home. Just driving through that part of town felt kind of elegant.

But there was nobody young who lived there.  I knew kids at school who lived in the adjacent neighborhoods, but I don't remember anybody who lived in one of "those" homes.

Dave


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## JudyH (Sep 5, 2021)

So I grew up in Beverly Hills,CA. We always lived in a rented apartment in the oldest area, my mother thought the BH school system was better. So I saw “wealth” my whole childhood. Wealth was owning a house or mansion, a Caddy with fins, eating in restaurants, owning your own horse or getting to take riding lessons. Having the latest clothes in style. Going on vacations. 
I didn’t have any of this but honestly I thought it was normal for most people to live this way.


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## Stressy (Sep 6, 2021)

For me, it was the next door neighbors who had an entire set of encyclopedias! Not only that, they had shelves full of books. And the Mom bought the kids comic books and every gossip rag from the check out stand. That house was my nirvana. Is it any wonder I'm now a HS librarian? I'm surrounded by wealth (of knowledge) every day. Oh, and the Mom also drove a cadillac. I didn't know ANYONE who drove a cadillac. She once picked me up from school due to an accident I'd had which resulted in bleeding. (My Mom was at work) and I was soooo afraid I'd bleed all over her car. She said not to worry about it...but, c'mon, it was a cadillac.


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## Bailey#1 (Sep 6, 2021)

Growing up in the 60's, finding a broom in the trash with a good stick and making a stick ball bat out of it.


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## pedro47 (Sep 6, 2021)

Bailey#1 said:


> Growing up in the 60's, finding a broom in the trash with a good stick and making a stick ball bat out of it.


How many children of today's generation played baseball with a stick as a wooden bat?
How many children of today's generation play anything outside? LOL


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## T_R_Oglodyte (Sep 6, 2021)

pedro47 said:


> Having a new pair of Chuck Taylor Converse basketball shoes, your own bedroom with a small color television and your own bathroom with a shower.


If you have Converse (or Jack Purcells, with the blue stripe on the toe), you were one of the rich kids.  I was part of the group of kids who didn't have them, while some of the kids who did would be sure that we knew that they had them and we didn't.


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## T_R_Oglodyte (Sep 6, 2021)

pedro47 said:


> How many children of today's generation played baseball with a stick as a wooden bat?
> How many children of today's generation play anything outside? LOL


One of the ways my childhood was rich - not materially - is that there weren't very many organized sports activities.  There was Little League baseball and Pop Warner football, and that was it.  I guess church league basketball, but that was pretty informal.

So we organized our own games, based on who we could round up.  We had all kinds of variations of baseball, based on how many kids we had.  If we had as few as five kids, we could play workup.  Half field + pitchers hand was common. We worked out the rules ourselves.

Most importantly, the importance of playing fair was taught by peer pressure.  If someone regularly tried to cheat, or made a big stink about how they were safe every time it was a close play, we would kick them out of the game, because it wasn't fun to play with cheaters and whiners. And when we organized games, we didn't invite them back.  When the cheaters pouted about being left out, we told them they were being excluded because they were cheaters and whiners and didn't play fair.

Most of them got the message and joined in.  A few would say that we were a bunch of meanies and would go home and complain to their mothers. One time my Mom talked to me about what one of the other moms had told her.  I explained to her the situation.  My mom understood (that was like her experiences growing up) and said we were right. Her only message was to be sure to give the kid another chance sometime to show that he got the message.


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## clifffaith (Sep 6, 2021)

pedro47 said:


> How many children of today's generation played baseball with a stick as a wooden bat?
> How many children of today's generation play anything outside? LOL



We played in the STREET! For 30 years I drove to appointments in residential neighborhoods and can't recall ever having to wait for kids to move to the side when someone yelled "CAR!" The way people race around our streets that simply wouldn't be safe these days.


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## pedro47 (Sep 6, 2021)

T_R_Oglodyte said:


> If you have Converse (or Jack Purcells, with the blue stripe on the toe), you were one of the rich kids.  I was part of the group of kids who didn't have them, while some of the kids who did would be sure that we knew that they had them and we didn't.


Do be honest with you, I never hear of Jack Purcells basketball shoes, with the blue strip on the toe.
We played football, basketball and baseball on vacant lots in the neighborhood. .

We ran track in the street. Telephone pole to the next telephone pole was our 100 yard dash.


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## DrQ (Sep 6, 2021)




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## T_R_Oglodyte (Sep 6, 2021)

pedro47 said:


> Do be honest with you, I never hear of Jack Purcells basketball shoes, with the blue strip on the toe.


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## Bailey#1 (Sep 6, 2021)

T_R_Oglodyte said:


> One of the ways my childhood was rich - not materially - is that there weren't very many organized sports activities.  There was Little League baseball and Pop Warner football, and that was it.  I guess church league basketball, but that was pretty informal.
> 
> So we organized our own games, based on who we could round up.  We had all kinds of variations of baseball, based on how many kids we had.  If we had as few as five kids, we could play workup.  Half field + pitchers hand was common. We worked out the rules ourselves.
> 
> ...


In the streets and factory areas we played stick ball, fast pitching against a wall, one bounce pitching, and free swinging.
Other baseball games include punch ball, slap ball, whiffle ball, 3 box baseball.
In the lots we played hardball (with a rubber covered baseball) usually 5 on 5 (no hitting between 1st and 2nd, softball. 
Hockey was in the streets with roller skates(metal wheels).
Football was usually 3 on 3 in the streets.

The most dangerous was riding our bikes, I don't know how we survived.

Grew up in the Elmhurst/Jackson hts section of Queens NYC area.


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## pedro47 (Sep 6, 2021)

T_R_Oglodyte said:


> View attachment 39671


Those shoes looked expensive even now. LOL
They looked more liked dress up tennis shoes and to nice to get them dirty playing basketball or any sports. IMHO


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## T_R_Oglodyte (Sep 6, 2021)

Bailey#1 said:


> Other baseball games include punch ball, slap ball, whiffle ball, 3 box baseball.
> In the lots we played hardball (with a rubber covered baseball) usually 5 on 5 (no hitting between 1st and 2nd, softball.


Lots of back-yard wiffle ball where I grew up - basic post WWII suburb.

In a local playfied 5-man workup.  Two players at bat. Three in the field - pitcher, infielder, outfielder.  Half field. Declare the side of the field you are going to hit to, and anything on the other side of second base is foul.  Easy pitching only - we want the ball to be put in play so the fielders have something to do.  When you're at bat, outs are caught fly balls, grounder returned to the pitcher before the batter reaches first base, or swinging strikeout.  If you make it on base, the next batter has to drive you in, so it's a force play at any base ahead of the runner.  So if you're at bat and you only make it to first base, there's a good chance you're going to be forced at home unless the batter drills the ball in his at bat.

When one of the batters makes an out, that player takes over in the outfield, the outfielder moves to the infield, and the pitcher becomes the new batter. Keep rotating for as long as you want to play.  We generally didn't keep score; the idea was to play.  If we did keep score it was just a tally of the number of times a particular player crossed the plate.  And if someone got obnoxious about scoring, that often resulted in a disinvite in the future. We did it to have fun, and when someone made it not fun, we didn't want him around.


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## T_R_Oglodyte (Sep 6, 2021)

pedro47 said:


> Those shoes looked expensive even now. LO


That's actually a more recent vintage.  In the 1960s they were much more plain, but I couldn't find a photo that went back that far. Especially they didn't have the padded tongue. If you remember Keds, they were in somewhat the same category.  But that blue stripe was a status symbol.


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## Bailey#1 (Sep 6, 2021)

T_R_Oglodyte said:


> Lots of back-yard wiffle ball where I grew up - basic post WWII suburb.
> 
> In a local playfied 5-man workup.  Two players at bat. Three in the field - pitcher, infielder, outfielder.  Half field. Declare the side of the field you are going to hit to, and anything on the other side of second base is foul.  Easy pitching only - we want the ball to be put in play so the fielders have something to do.  When you're at bat, outs are caught fly balls, grounder returned to the pitcher before the batter reaches first base, or swinging strikeout.  If you make it on base, the next batter has to drive you in, so it's a force play at any base ahead of the runner.  So if you're at bat and you only make it to first base, there's a good chance you're going to be forced at home unless the batter drills the ball in his at bat.
> 
> When one of the batters makes an out, that player takes over in the outfield, the outfielder moves to the infield, and the pitcher becomes the new batter. Keep rotating for as long as you want to play.  We generally didn't keep score; the idea was to play.  If we did keep score it was just a tally of the number of times a particular player crossed the plate.  And if someone got obnoxious about scoring, that often resulted in a disinvite in the future. We did it to have fun, and when someone made it not fun, we didn't want him around.


Those were the days!


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## geist1223 (Sep 6, 2021)

From 1st through 4th Grade we lived in Military Housing near Ewa Beach on Oah'u. The House next to us burned down and they never rebuilt it. So we had a great field for Neighborhood Football, Baseball, etc. Behind the Houses was a slight drainage area that ran for 5 or 6 houses. We use to get all the Hoses and fill it with water. Then take small pieces of plywood and get a running start before throwing the piece of wood down and jumping on to ride. We found a big wooden empty spool (meant for cable) and pried open part of the metal center. We took turns climbing in and the others pushed you around the field. We would wear an small Army Helmet to protect our heads. When we moved to Canoga Park there was an old Walnut Orchard a couple houses away we would dig tunnels to play in. Luckily none ever collapsed. A block away was the Public Junior High School. So we had a real ball field for pickup neighborhood games.


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## Big Matt (Sep 6, 2021)

Prior to Adiadas and Nike there really weren't athletic shoes to speak of other than converse and that's what basketball players wore.  There weren't running shoes at all other than the spikes that sprinters wore on the cinder tracks.  If you didn't have converse you would be ridiculed.  Where I grew up the lousy sneakers were called Maypops.


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## Bucky (Sep 7, 2021)

Wealth in our neighborhood was defined by those that had the best couch on their front porch!


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## DaveNV (Sep 7, 2021)

Bucky said:


> Wealth in our neighborhood was defined by those that had the best couch on their front porch!



Jeff Foxworthy: "If your richest relative buys a new house, and you have to go over and help take off the wheels..."

Dave


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## presley (Sep 7, 2021)

I've had a hard time answering this question and the responses have brought back so many memories. I think the one that genuinely answers the question is the people who gave out full size candy bars. Only rich people could do that.

I remember having friends on the free lunch program and telling my mom about it. She told me they got free lunches because they were considered poor. I don't know what she thought we were. I wore hand me downs that were passed down from 3 older brothers (I am female) and I didn't have a jacket when my free lunch friends did have jackets and their own clothes. I did have a Big Wheel, so I guess that means we weren't totally poor, although family of 6 living in a 2 bedroom, 1 bathroom sounds really poor to me now. And the lack of a jacket when my free lunch friend shared her jacket with me when we walked home from school in a bad rain/windstorm. It worked great. Both of our arms fit into the sleeves. Made for difficult walking the 2 miles, but we did it.


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## joestein (Sep 7, 2021)

It all so relative.    The poorest upbringing around here still would probably be rich by 3rd world standards.

However, all I wanted as a kid was cable TV (apparently still an issue today - based upon my locast post).     I quickly learned that if I wanted something, I had to go out and earn it.    Sadly - my mom wouldn't let me get cable in the apartment even if I offered to pay for it.


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## VegasBella (Sep 8, 2021)

2 story house (of course now I know that's just a lifestyle choice and I prefer 1 story)
cable TV
vacationing to Hawaii and/or going skiing
a safe, dependable car at age 16 (I drove a beater with bad brakes that could easily have gotten me killed)
neighborhood where stray animals were uncommon (all cats & dogs had homes)
not worrying about the costs when a pet needs to go to the vet (as an adult one of the first things I did was buy pet insurance so I wouldn't feel that again)


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## topmom101 (Sep 8, 2021)

Funny, it never occurred to me how incredibly poor we were while growing up in a small town in Sicily because everyone else was in the same shoes. But, in fact, we were probably considered upper class since my dad managed to buy us the first TV in town. I will never forget the day John Kennedy was shot. While we were all around the TV watching the news, there was a crowd of about 40 people gathering outside taking turns peeking thru our door and windows for a glimpse at the TV. Good times.


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## rhonda (Sep 28, 2021)

rhonda said:


> We had a nice home on the river ... but the neighbors across the street, a doctor and his family, had a huge, white mansion with a wide, sweeping lawn all the way down to the waterfront.  Their house had 3 story white columns front and back ... and a gazebo down near the water.  They held summer soirees on the lawn ... looked so fab.  That picture was my childhood image of 'wealth.'  Sigh.


The house of my childhood memory has recently been listed on Zillow. 
Take a look:  https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/2-Walnut-St-Beverly-NJ-08010/38067926_zpid/?mmlb=g,14

From the artwork and family memorabilia, it appears to have been held by the same family as when we lived next door.

*EDITED TO ADD* Copy/Paste description of the home direct from Zillow's description.  Bold added by me.  Yes, same owners since we left NJ back in the mid-70s.  Going through the photos was quite a trip down memory lane for me.  I showed this to my husband, and pondered, "Now you know why I thought we were rich until we moved to CA, right??"  LOL ... it was good to remember why I loved growing up in NJ.

Zillow Description:
This *1848* Classic Riverfront Revival home, known as ”Waterview”, sits proudly perched along the banks of the Delaware River with 180-degree water views is truly one-of-a-kind. Now, this is your chance to become a part of American History blending this historically important home with your personal 21st century esthetic. Embodying authentic bold architectural elements, graced with *13 foot ceilings,* “Waterview” rooms are designed for both large and small gatherings. With *five levels of living space* including a full attic of 4 rooms and finished basement with one private room and full bath, creative ideas can turn these existing rooms into personalized and unique living spaces.  Exercise room, art studio, recording studio, yoga retreat...turn your dreams into reality! This home is zoned for Bed and Breakfast and Private Club usages. The grounds include 148 feet of river frontage on 1.4 acres with a full bulkhead and a boardwalk. 180 feet of riparian rights affords the ability to build a sizable dock to support large yachts and water toys. Zipping between the many boat clubs found along the Delaware River waterfront, unlimited activities are found on both the New Jersey and Pennsylvania sides. Pack up your canoe and paddle across the way to Neshaminy State Park or hop on your waverunner for a bit of river fun!  *Through the years, “Waterview” has taken on different identities...during her long life she has been a private residence, boating club and at another time she served as a gentlemen’s hunting club and retreat. Members came from the Mainline in Pennsylvania to enjoy hunting pheasant, geese and wild turkey; fishing for golden carp and shad…meals were cooked to perfection…after dinner it was time for a toast, dessert, coffee, cigars, card games, darts, a game of pool or a walk along the picturesque riverbank*. From the multiple terraces, step inside the large center hall that spans front to back with its massive doors and views of the river, setting the stage for dramatic formal rooms and cozy informal spaces. *Six original fireplaces* are found throughout “Waterview”; two identical marble fireplaces anchor the expansive double sized living room; three stately Bedrooms and the Library each have their own. *The owners of 50+ years* are lovers of art and it shows. Easy access by car to Center City Philadelphia, New York City and the Trenton/Princeton area. The NJ Light-rail system is an available option that connects travelers and visitors to all.  Property is offered AS-IS.


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## T_R_Oglodyte (Sep 28, 2021)

joestein said:


> It all so relative.    The poorest upbringing around here still would probably be rich by 3rd world standards.


This.  In the villages I've visited in the highlands of northern Guatemala, being able to provide shoes for all of your children means you're rich.


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## joestein (Sep 29, 2021)

Thinking about wealth....    My neighborhood is too wealthy  (or maybe they just spend every dollar they can get their hands on and then some).  

There is a strip mall a few miles down the road from my development.    In it, there is a seafood restaurant called 'couzins'.     When you go to the strip mall, there are always a bunch of outrageous cars lined up in front:  Ferraris, Maseratis, maybe a Maybach or Lamborghini.  Some of the people entering and leaving the restaurant are dressed up to the nines.   On a weekday evening.   It is just such a ridiculous sight to me.

Once in a while, my wife and I go get some 1/2 price sushi for dinner at Masa a couple of stores down.  Maybe spending $40 with tip dressed in the most casual of wear.   Not unusual to get incredulous looks when we go past them in my basketball shorts and t-shirt to go to/from car/Masa.  Like we don't belong or something.

It just seems like a show of wealth for the sake of the show of wealth.

BTW... ate at Couzins once - since everybody thinks it is so amazing -  very mediocre - not cheap - but no so expensive that I wouldn't return if the food was excellent.


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## Patri (Sep 29, 2021)

Joe, you just keep walking by in your casual clothes. If nothing else, it can remind them where they came from, and they can turn their noses up even higher. Good view of the clouds that way!


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## Big Matt (Sep 29, 2021)

joestein said:


> Thinking about wealth....    My neighborhood is too wealthy  (or maybe they just spend every dollar they can get their hands on and then some).
> 
> There is a strip mall a few miles down the road from my development.    In it, there is a seafood restaurant called 'couzins'.     When you go to the strip mall, there are always a bunch of outrageous cars lined up in front:  Ferraris, Maseratis, maybe a Maybach or Lamborghini.  Some of the people entering and leaving the restaurant are dressed up to the nines.   On a weekday evening.   It is just such a ridiculous sight to me.
> 
> ...


I live in a similar area in Virginia in terms of wealth, cars, etc.  What I find is that people who come from money don't flaunt it.  It is mostly people who have newfound money.  I also find that the newfound money runs out for a lot of them.


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