# SFX cautionary tale/rant



## dominidude (May 17, 2016)

Just thought I'd let other Tuggers know. I just got off the phone with one of their agents.

SFX's diamond membership says
http://www.sfxresorts.com/membership-programs/

_Complimentary Unit upgrades for exchanges (based on availability)_

However, this should read:

*Complimentary Unit SIZE upgrades for exchanges (based on availability) at time of exchange*

What that means is as follows:

If you have a premium 2bdr unit, say a 2bdr at KCP, and want to exchange that for a 2bdr at the Grand Luxxe in Mexico, you incur a 299 *additional* exchange fee because the Grand Luxxe is considered a luxury upgrade (i.e., not a unit size upgrade) and therefore subject to the higher exchange fee.

Additionally, once you confirm your exchange, dont even think about getting a new accommodation without paying an additionally exchange fee.

In other words, RCI platinum seems to have better perks in this sense, as it is my understanding that RCI platinum members do not get charged  an additional exchange fee if a more luxurious upgrade becomes available after the exchange is confirmed.


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## presley (May 17, 2016)

It has been my experience that if I deposit a 1 bedroom and I get a match for a 2 bedroom, they don't charge an upgrade fee. So, I see where their wording came from.

I do understand your point, too. They will probably change their wording now that this has been brought to their attention.


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## tschwa2 (May 17, 2016)

dominidude said:


> In other words, RCI platinum seems to have better perks in this sense, as it is my understanding that RCI platinum members do not get charged  an additional exchange fee if a more luxurious upgrade becomes available after the exchange is confirmed.



RCI platinum upgrades are only applicable 14 days or less and only if the upgrade happens to available during the one time of day the system checks or if it happens to be available 14 days or less and you are on the phone with an agent who happens to know how to do the upgrade without charging you for them.


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## buzglyd (May 17, 2016)

Grand Luxxe is a residence club and that fee is spelled out on SFX site.


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## rickandcindy23 (May 17, 2016)

I was more than willing to pay the fee for our daughter' trip.  Her hubby and kids are over-the-top excited to go at the end of the month.

Since I got the SFX exchange, though, I have seen a few on II.


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## bobpark56 (May 17, 2016)

*No extra fees with I.I.*



buzglyd said:


> Grand Luxxe is a residence club and that fee is spelled out on SFX site.



We have twice traded into Grand Luxxe Riviera Maya via Interval International with no added fees. So SFX does seem to be deficient here.


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## JuliGee (May 24, 2016)

Grand Luxxe is a private residence club. We have stayed twice using sfx, once at Riviera Maya, and the one in Nuevo which is our favorite. We traded our two bedroom unit Marriott Newport Coast in California and gladly paid the upgrade fee. We didn't complain about it because it was a huge upgrade from what we deposited. Was the unit you deposited equal for trading power to a Grand Luxxe? Or were you trying to get something of far greater value than what you deposited?? 

BTW what resort did you deposit with them?

Juli


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## tschwa2 (May 24, 2016)

Its only annoying because I can trade into a studio, 1 br or 2 grande luxxe with a regular II exchange fee of about $164 and a 1 br premier rated resort.  There are hundreds of units available.  Mostly studios and 1 brs.  When the bulk deposits are made there are usually more 2 br grand luxxe and even a few 3 br grand luxxe.

Yes it is an uptrade but supply and demand looks like there is enough supply that it takes a couple of months to get takers for the smaller units and the more off season ones.


I don't think SFX is necesarily pocketing the extra fee, they just didn't have the clout to refuse Vidas demands.  Same with the 1 in X.  For years SFX bragged that they didn't have any but they how to bow under Vidas demand that they implement one for their properties.  II did not.  No residence club extra fee and no 1 in x for exchanges.


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## frank808 (May 24, 2016)

tschwa2 said:


> Its only annoying because I can trade into a studio, 1 br or 2 grande luxxe with a regular II exchange fee of about $164 and a 1 br premier rated resort.



II charges $179 for online reservations and $189 if you call in.  Does grand luxxe have a cheaper rate like marriott and starwood?


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## rickandcindy23 (May 25, 2016)

Yes, the fee did go up for trading in II.  But still, I agree with tschwa that it is cheaper through II, but if II doesn't have the dates, SFX can most certainly get something.  

I am very disappointed SFX has 1 in X for many resorts.  They could have inventory, but if you wanted it, even as a Diamond member, they won't let you have it.  One example is NYC.


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## JuliGee (May 25, 2016)

rickandcindy23 said:


> Yes, the fee did go up for trading in II.  But still, I agree with tschwa that it is cheaper through II, but if II doesn't have the dates, SFX can most certainly get something.
> 
> I am very disappointed SFX has 1 in X for many resorts.  They could have inventory, but if you wanted it, even as a Diamond member, they won't let you have it.  One example is NYC.



Sorry, but I have to totally disagree with you. Not to say there are no other resorts with that restriction, but we have been using SFX for a number of years, and are picky with regards to high demand locations and resorts, and the only "one" place they we have experienced, where they put the 1 in 3 rule is for New York City, not many resorts as you state. As much as I don't like that rule, they told me its because they want to be as fair as possible in giving as many different members the opportunity to stay there, because its a difficult place to exchange to with very limited availability. 
Juli


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## rickandcindy23 (May 25, 2016)

JuliGee said:


> Sorry, but I have to totally disagree with you. Not to say there are no other resorts with that restriction, but we have been using SFX for a number of years, and are picky with regards to high demand locations and resorts, and the only "one" place they we have experienced, where they put the 1 in 3 rule is for New York City, not many resorts as you state. As much as I don't like that rule, they told me its because they want to be as fair as possible in giving as many different members the opportunity to stay there, because its a difficult place to exchange to with very limited availability.
> Juli



How is that disagreeing with me?  First, it IS cheaper with II for Grand Luxxe.  It just is.

Second, there are probably other resort areas with restrictions SFX doesn't openly tell us about.  RCI has 1 in X rules, and so SFX is right on par with RCI, and I still use RCI far more than SFX.  

I am not going to quit trying with SFX because of a 1 in X rule. Nathan's incredibly helpful demeanor toward me on our phone calls is reason enough to stick with SFX.  He is an asset to the company.  

Defenders of SFX need to know I rarely get an exchange on dates I want through SFX.  My ongoing requests just disappear out of the system when the time is past.  I am selling my Shell points now because I know SFX can get me places like San Francisco, and I need to use my deposits.  

II beats SFX every time in matching my requests very quickly.  SFX has yet to prove itself to me, but I need to adjust my requests.  

I have many deposits that expire next year with SFX, and I will need to make more deposits to extend those another year.  I am not that impressed with SFX.  So now you can disagree with me.  I know you have had incredible success and are thrilled and elated with every exchange, but most of us don't feel that way.


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## John Cummings (May 25, 2016)

rickandcindy23 said:


> Yes, the fee did go up for trading in II.  But still, I agree with tschwa that it is cheaper through II, but if II doesn't have the dates, SFX can most certainly get something.
> 
> I am very disappointed SFX has 1 in X for many resorts.  They could have inventory, but if you wanted it, even as a Diamond member, they won't let you have it.  One example is NYC.



The 1 in x rules are very few with SFX unlike RCI which has many. These rules come from the resorts. The only exception is the 1 in 3 for NYC which Juli mentioned.


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## JuliGee (May 28, 2016)

rickandcindy23 said:


> How is that disagreeing with me?



The specific item I was disagreeing about, is you stated SFX had many resorts with a 1 in 3 restriction, because we have not found that to be accurate information. 

You also state that "most of us" don't feel that way about positive results with SFX? How many SFX users are you basing that opinion on? 

I also wonder how many thousands of people didn't get their exchange from RCI or II in the last two to three years?

Everyone's experience with any exchange company is their own experience. Over the years, our experience with SFX, has been far greater than II or RCI. We actually joined them on the recommendation of management at Marriott and Club Donatello board of directors of the hoa. If the other companies work better for you, then obviously that's your choice based on your own personal experience. It's nice to have options :deadhorse:

Juli


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## frank808 (May 28, 2016)

I have not had great success with SFX also.   However if i need san francisco or mexico i will give them a try again.  I had two deposits with searches go unmatched about 4 years ago and have not deposited with them since.  I deposited the same units same month of checkin just different year with II and got matched. I have not deposited with SFX since.


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## rickandcindy23 (May 28, 2016)

frank808 said:


> I have not had great success with SFX also.   However if i need san francisco or mexico i will give them a try again.  I had two deposits with searches go unmatched about 4 years ago and have not deposited with them since.  I deposited the same units same month of checkin just different year with II and got matched. I have not deposited with SFX since.



Yep, II is just better at getting me what I want.  SFX has yet to prove they can get anything for me that II cannot.  I just got a match from RCI for Manhattan Club, as a matter of fact, for Spring Break next year.


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## klpca (Jun 17, 2016)

I had a deposit in SFX that I needed to use by next June. On a whim I put an ongoing search for Hawaii for next May, wanting to link the week with an exchange that I already have on Kauai. I called SFX the next day to fine tune the request - specifying a Saturday check in and giving them a list of resorts that I would accept. Now I know that this was sheer coincidence, but the agent (Maggie) listened to my requests, asked me to hold, then came back on the phone to ask me if I would accept a week at HGVC Kings Land for the exact dates that I needed. Of course I said yes. It couldn't have been easier. I only have the basic membership so the exchange fee was $209, but since I don't pay an annual fee, I can live with this.

I still love the lower cost and added flexibility of II, but SFX is so much better to work with than RCI that I will probably try to use them more going forward, especially for Hawaii.


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## Ken555 (Jun 17, 2016)

klpca said:


> I had a deposit in SFX that I needed to use by next June. On a whim I put an ongoing search for Hawaii for next May, wanting to link the week with an exchange that I already have on Kauai. I called SFX the next day to fine tune the request - specifying a Saturday check in and giving them a list of resorts that I would accept. Now I know that this was sheer coincidence, but the agent (Maggie) listened to my requests, asked me to hold, then came back on the phone to ask me if I would accept a week at HGVC Kings Land for the exact dates that I needed. Of course I said yes. It couldn't have been easier. I only have the basic membership so the exchange fee was $209, but since I don't pay an annual fee, I can live with this.
> 
> 
> 
> I still love the lower cost and added flexibility of II, but SFX is so much better to work with than RCI that I will probably try to use them more going forward, especially for Hawaii.





I'm curious, what did you use to trade for that week?


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## klpca (Jun 17, 2016)

Ken555 said:


> I'm curious, what did you use to trade for that week?



A one bedroom Coronado Beach Resort, week 37. And I received a one bedroom as well.


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## SmithOp (Jun 17, 2016)

klpca said:


> A one bedroom Coronado Beach Resort, week 37. And I received a one bedroom as well.





Funny coincidence, I have that week booked this year as a GPX bonus week, great month to visit San Diego.

May is a great time to visit King's Land too, I was just there last month 


Sent from my iPad Mini 4 using Tapatalk


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## klpca (Jun 17, 2016)

SmithOp said:


> Funny coincidence, I have that week booked this year as a GPX bonus week, great month to visit San Diego.
> 
> May is a great time to visit King's Land too, I was just there last month
> 
> ...



In San Diego, September is "secret summer". Best time of the year!

Glad to hear that May will be nice on the Big Island. We used to go in July for our anniversary but it's just too hot for us now. Wimpy, haha.


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## djyamyam (Oct 13, 2016)

klpca said:


> I had a deposit in SFX that I needed to use by next June. On a whim I put an ongoing search for Hawaii for next May, wanting to link the week with an exchange that I already have on Kauai. I called SFX the next day to fine tune the request - specifying a Saturday check in and giving them a list of resorts that I would accept. Now I know that this was sheer coincidence, but the agent (Maggie) listened to my requests, asked me to hold, then came back on the phone to ask me if I would accept a week at HGVC Kings Land for the exact dates that I needed. Of course I said yes. It couldn't have been easier. I only have the basic membership so the exchange fee was $209, but since I don't pay an annual fee, I can live with this.
> 
> I still love the lower cost and added flexibility of II, but SFX is so much better to work with than RCI that I will probably try to use them more going forward, especially for Hawaii.



I know this thread is a few months old but I just got a call from SFX with a match to an ongoing request I had for Hawaii.  They have a match for HGVC Kohala Suites in a 2BR for Feb.  However, they are designating it as a Residence resort so there is a $299 luxury surcharge in addition to the $149 exchange fee.  They are also requiring me to use one of my more recent deposits, a gold crown resort, that expires in 2019 even though I have a number of other deposits that end earlier (2017).  They would be willing to extend my other deposits for an additional year for requiring me to use my more recent higher end deposit.  

I was aware of the Grand Luxxe upgrade fee but not that it applied also to what they deem as high end resorts (Marriotts, Hiltons, Grand Luxxe).  Basically, if I want to go ahead with the exchange, I'm paying a $450 exchange/upgrade fee along + the MF on my deposit.  In comparison, I have an exchange into the Bay Club for same time frame/unit that was about 34 TPUs + exchange fee.  That would have amounted to one of my summer SC coastal or one of my summer CA units.  I have previously exchanged into HGVC Kingsland and Kohala via RCI for around that 35 TPU range for similar time frames.  If I decide to confirm this exchange via SFX, it will cost me be approximately $300-600 (depending on which deposit I have with RCI) more than me trading via RCI.  

I have to say that my SFX deposits have not been getting used because of stuff like this.  And I have a Cash Card with SFX that doesn't allow me to use any credit against that $299 luxury fee.  And I have a Diamond membership with SFX.  Not really feeling a whole lot of value with SFX


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## klpca (Oct 13, 2016)

djyamyam said:


> I know this thread is a few months old but I just got a call from SFX with a match to an ongoing request I had for Hawaii.  They have a match for HGVC Kohala Suites in a 2BR for Feb.  However, they are designating it as a Residence resort so there is a $299 luxury surcharge in addition to the $149 exchange fee.  They are also requiring me to use one of my more recent deposits, a gold crown resort, that expires in 2019 even though I have a number of other deposits that end earlier (2017).  They would be willing to extend my other deposits for an additional year for requiring me to use my more recent higher end deposit.
> 
> I was aware of the Grand Luxxe upgrade fee but not that it applied also to what they deem as high end resorts (Marriotts, Hiltons, Grand Luxxe).  Basically, if I want to go ahead with the exchange, I'm paying a $450 exchange/upgrade fee along + the MF on my deposit.  In comparison, I have an exchange into the Bay Club for same time frame/unit that was about 34 TPUs + exchange fee.  That would have amounted to one of my summer SC coastal or one of my summer CA units.  I have previously exchanged into HGVC Kingsland and Kohala via RCI for around that 35 TPU range for similar time frames.  If I decide to confirm this exchange via SFX, it will cost me be approximately $300-600 (depending on which deposit I have with RCI) more than me trading via RCI.
> 
> I have to say that my SFX deposits have not been getting used because of stuff like this.  And I have a Cash Card with SFX that doesn't allow me to use any credit against that $299 luxury fee.  And I have a Diamond membership with SFX.  Not really feeling a whole lot of value with SFX



Wow. I definitely didn't have that extra fee. If that's where they are heading, I don't think I'll be along for the ride. I wonder if they are giving the folks who deposit their residence club units some kind of a deal if they take a lower tier unit?


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## SmithOp (Oct 13, 2016)

Thanks for letting us know, these are the things they don't spell out on the web site.  Glad I decided to let my membership expire and not buy the new diamond level.  I let one last deposit expire, it was a Bay Club 1br, cost me 3400 hgvc points.

Interval just had a recent change on Grand Luxxe exchanges, its now $11 per person per day resort fee when it used to be $75 for the week.  Fees are going up everywhere with exchanges.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## klpca (Oct 13, 2016)

Follow up - I just got off the phone with SFX. This fee is apparently not new and seems to be related to the property that was deposited. I have used my Donatello unit, Marriott Desert Springs II, and my Coronado unit for exchanges and have not been charged the fee. There didn't seem to be anything published about it - I guess that you will need to speak to them over the phone to see if your deposit will be subject to the upcharge.


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## rickandcindy23 (Oct 13, 2016)

Oh, well that is wonderful.  Additional fees on weeks in Hawaii I can get through RCI for no extra fees at all?  NO THANKS!  Too bad I am terrible at thinking way ahead.  Those RCI deposits of Hiltons in Hawaii are usually 18-24 months out and happen around April of each year.  I cannot think that far out.  

I guess my Sheraton Broadway Plantation is probably not fancy enough to get me an exchange like Hilton Kohala Suites without the fees.  And I have news for you, Kohala Suites is not THAT great, to pay a huge fee like that.  I personally bought units with decent fees, so that when I deposit a week for exchange, I get an even value for my week.  My SBP 2 bedroom is about equal to Kohala Suites in amenities and unit quality.  If I had to pay that much for an exchange, with my Diamond membership, I would be livid.  

Then again, I am not a fan of the Big Island.


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## presley (Oct 13, 2016)

rickandcindy23 said:


> And I have news for you, Kohala Suites is not THAT great, to pay a huge fee like that.


That was my first thought. I guess if there is a residence club there (and there easily could be without my knowledge) and that was what was deposited, there's no way around it. I wouldn't expect that fee for a normally deposited HGVC Kohala Suites week. 

I know they read here, so hopefully someone from there can post an explanation that we can understand better.


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## dominidude (Oct 13, 2016)

presley said:


> That was my first thought. I guess if there is a residence club there (and there easily could be without my knowledge) and that was what was deposited, there's no way around it. I wouldn't expect that fee for a normally deposited HGVC Kohala Suites week.
> 
> I know they read here, so hopefully someone from there can post an explanation that we can understand better.



To find out, it's just a matter of calling the resort. Some Tuggers feel that the luxury upgrade is sometimes worth it.

While it is possible that there might be a residence club in that resort, my experience tells me, more likely, that this is a "luxury" upgrade fee. 

In other words, SFX feels that that the unit being potentially forfeited is not as luxurious as the unit potentially being obtained. It doesnt matter if you agree/disagree, they set the rules. My experience with them is that whatever you own is not as good as what they have. 

That's why I do not deposit with them, I call to find out what I can trade into with  my timeshare on the spot. If I dont like it, I call again in a month or two.

SFX has gotten creative with their fees. And the most unfortunate thing is, they do not let you know in advance what those fees are, or at least, they can do a lot better at explaining their fees.


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## djyamyam (Oct 13, 2016)

presley said:


> That was my first thought. I guess if there is a residence club there (and there easily could be without my knowledge) and that was what was deposited, there's no way around it. I wouldn't expect that fee for a normally deposited HGVC Kohala Suites week.





dominidude said:


> While it is possible that there might be a residence club in that resort, my experience tells me, more likely, that this is a "luxury" upgrade fee.
> 
> In other words, SFX feels that that the unit being potentially forfeited is not as luxurious as the unit potentially being obtained. It doesnt matter if you agree/disagree, they set the rules. My experience with them is that whatever you own is not as good as what they have.



Dominidude has it correct.  There is no "residence club" at Kohala.  SFX just classifies this as a higher end unit compared to the deposit I made (which for the record was a summer 2BR at the Summitt at Massanutten).  So they charge the luxury upgrade fee.

I can choose to either like it/not like it.  I can see the future towards additional fees - all the exchange companies have it in some fashion (e.g. RCI's combine fees).  Some are better than others in where and how they apply it.  Some have better discounts on these fees for higher end memberships (e.g. Interval Platinum upgrade discount is 50% reduced vs. standard membership).  I don't think SFX has done of good job of it on this aspect for their Diamond memberships.  

Unlike some other owners, I have deposits with a number of exchange companies so I can afford to be picky or wait.  I'll likely not move forward with confirming the exchange so if maybe another person feels this will work for them and put in a request.  There's a unit available!


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## JuliGee (Oct 15, 2016)

dominidude said:


> To find out, it's just a matter of calling the resort. Some Tuggers feel that the luxury upgrade is sometimes worth it.
> 
> While it is possible that there might be a residence club in that resort, my experience tells me, more likely, that this is a "luxury" upgrade fee.
> 
> ...



It sounds like its their way of saying the week deposited didn’t have enough trading power to exchange into the Hawaii resort, and they were giving an opportunity to book the Hawaii unit with an upgrade fee. All exchange companies have their formulas for trading power. At least they are giving an opportunity to decide whether or not that is something they would like to do. I am not 100% sure, but I believe RCI or II doesn't even give you that upgrade opportunity, you possibly wouldn’t have matched and missed an opportunity for a vacation.

We have an SFX diamond membership, and have never had issues with having to pay a luxury upgrade fee based on what we own. Owning a Diamond membership doesn't change anything about the trading power of the weeks you deposit. The only time we did pay an upgrade fee was to trade into a private residence club, and had no problem paying for something a lot nicer than what we deposited.

Juli


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