# Interesting Speculation about Upcoming Changes to Marriott Rewards



## EducatedConsumer (Mar 13, 2014)

Sometime this speculation is accurate.

Two interesting discussions:

http://www.rewards-insiders.marriott.com/thread/15140

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/marr...bout-big-changes-coming-marriott-rewards.html

In my opinion, the value proposition of owning Marriott timeshare weeks is a fraction of what it used to be; further degredation to the MVC/Marriott Rewards exchange for Marriott Rewards points will sink the value, but still allow some flexibility.


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## melroseman (Mar 13, 2014)

*Possible Elite status changes and devaluation*

This forum has been quiet about the rumors of changes in elite status requirements and devaluation.  As most of you know from either Marriott Insiders or Flyertalk there are a number of scenarios being floated.  For me...and many of you...a revenue based requirement for elite status would be a problem.  I probably have 28 nights a year "free" (haha...just purchase price and maintenance fees) from timeshare stays that get credited toward elite status now.  Wonder what the Tuggers have heard about possible changes??


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## SueDonJ (Mar 13, 2014)

Haven't heard anything official.  A few of the rumored specifics being talked about on flyertalk and Marriott Insiders sound ridiculous, way too much of a devaluation.  Some are theorizing that Marriott is allowing them to be leaked because then when the actual devaluations are officially announced, we'll be happy that things aren't as bad as they could have been.  That's as ridiculous an idea, IMO.

I expect devaluations.  I don't expect Doomsday for everyone except those eligible for what will supposedly be a new Platinum Premier level of benefits.

_Edited to add links:_
Marriott Rewards Insiders - How will points change in 2014?

Flyertalk - Marriott Rewards Insiders Speculating About Big Changes coming to Marriott Rewards???


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## FractionalTraveler (Mar 13, 2014)

melroseman said:


> This forum has been quiet about the rumors of changes in elite status requirements and devaluation.  As most of you know from either Marriott Insiders or Flyertalk there are a number of scenarios being floated.  For me...and many of you...a revenue based requirement for elite status would be a problem.  I probably have 28 nights a year "free" (haha...just purchase price and maintenance fees) from timeshare stays that get credited toward elite status now.  Wonder what the Tuggers have heard about possible changes??



A revenue based requirement for elite status would be nothing new.  PLT Premier status used to be based a few years back on the formula of: Number of Nights, Number of Years in Program, and Revenue in a given year.  Today, its much easier to qualify.

I sure hope they bring the revenue based model back.  That would allow the program to reward loyalty instead of freeloaders.

FT


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## thinze3 (Mar 13, 2014)

Marriott is notorious for leaking information way in advance.  

I believe they listen to the grumblings and probably make slight adjustments accordingly.  The early release of the possible bad scenarios actually makes the truth more bearable.


Sort of like how when gasoline went from $2.50 to $4, and then when it went back down to $3.5 everybody was happy again.


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## bazzap (Mar 13, 2014)

I guess my view on this, would certainly depend on the criteria for any revenue based model to be introduced.
My annual hotel spend is relatively low these days.
However, I do pay $10k+ per annum on MFs, having already shelled out the best best part of $200k on buying my weeks.
I do understand that this may not now be a discretionary spend, but at the same time I would still expect this type of loyalty to be rewarded and not to be treated as a "freeloader"!


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## dougp26364 (Mar 13, 2014)

They lost us as "valued customers" a couple of years ago. I don't even use our MR CC at Marriott resorts or to make hotel,reservations anymore. 

It would be no surprise that a cash requirement be required for elected status. Cruise lines have begun to tie dollars spent to loyalty status and airlines have begun to roll this out as well. I'm sure hotel loyalty programs will be right in there. 

It's funny how they all set up these loyalty rewards programs to attract new customers, then expanded them and now feel they must reign them in as they've given away to much in a tight economy. 

I have no problem with it. They'll now have to compete strictly on value, customer service and more often than not on price.


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## Bill4728 (Mar 13, 2014)

Here is what "takingthehighroad" said on the reward insiders/ Marriott site


> I recently spoke with someone who works at Marriott and he said there may be radical changes coming to MR that will be announced later this Spring and take effect in 2015.
> The changes being discussed include:
> >The points required for award stays will be increased by at least 5,000 points per night across all levels and the 5th night free will disappear.
> >Category 10 will be added and require 60,000 points per night (read mass devaluation),
> ...


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## SueDonJ (Mar 13, 2014)

We stayed at the Phoenix Ritz-Carlton this past week, using a corporate rate because Don was there on business but with his MR number attached.  Even if it had been a rack rate, I was expecting only the 1,000 Points as a Welcome Gift and no other perks.  Plus as a last-minute reservation it was noted that no King rooms were available so I wasn't expecting our usual room type either.

It was fantastic!  They upgraded us to a mountain view King room on the 10th floor, gave us turndown service with cookies and chocolates, left free water bottles and tons of toiletries … they gave us everything just short of access to the concierge lounge on the 11th floor.

We definitely will lose Plat status if the Elite Nights from VISA spends aren't counted anymore, will probably lose it if the timeshare stays don't count for Elite Nights.  Although it pretty much means nothing when using our owned Weeks/DC Points, it makes a big difference in our non-timeshare stays.  I'll be sad but what can be done about it?  It doesn't make sense to go away from Marriott hotels in a huff because if we're not able to maintain Marriott status based on only hotel stays, we won't be able to maintain any other company's status either.  The majority of our travel is leisure, not business, at the timeshares more often than hotels.  MR status doesn't count for much there.  <shrug>


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## m61376 (Mar 13, 2014)

I wonder how big a hit their Visa card will take, and ultimately if that will factor into their decision. Credit cards are big business, and if they devalue card benefits, a lot of Marriott Visa card holders may find that other programs offer more attractive benefits.


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## SCSTWG (Mar 13, 2014)

Between these rumors and the devaluation of points last year, I am losing faith in the value of the system.  I am platinum and if there are more changes I will definitely have to take a look at the options that are out there and determine if this is the best program for me.  Most of my stays are in Lake Placid and they have been very good to me there.  My loyalty is more to that individual property than to the Marriott brand.


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## dioxide45 (Mar 13, 2014)

We would never make any elite status if they move to a revenue based system. Shoot, we can make gold on timeshare stays, credit card nights and a few leisure stays along. They probably make about $400 a year off of us gross. Though that doesn't count the percentage that MVCI that we pay in our maintenance fees. Then they turn around and pay Marriott International that $50MM licensing fee.


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## gregloucks (Mar 13, 2014)

I sure hope they bring the revenue based model back.  That would allow the program to reward loyalty instead of freeloaders.

FT[/QUOTE said:
			
		

> Who are the "freeloaders" that achieve status?


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## TheTimeTraveler (Mar 13, 2014)

So I wonder if they'll "grandfather" existing Lifetime Platinum Members, or will they make them re-achieve becoming Lifetime Platinum Members using the new changes that may be put into place?




.


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## EducatedConsumer (Mar 13, 2014)

TheTimeTraveler said:


> So I wonder if they'll "grandfather" existing Lifetime Platinum Members, or will they make them re-achieve becoming Lifetime Platinum Members using the new changes that may be put into place?
> 
> 
> 
> ...




You should ask one of the "Lifetime" Season Pass holders at Killington Ski Resort in Vermont about their "Lifetime" season passes. SEE:

http://www.rutlandherald.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070518/NEWS04/705180371/1002/NEWS01


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## Mr. Vker (Mar 13, 2014)

gregloucks said:


> Who are the "freeloaders" that achieve status?



Last year, Marriott granted Gold status to thousands and thousands of United FF's that had a certain tier. MR members got the lowest United tier--silver.

This bloated gold rosters. Packed the lounges etc.


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## Mr. Vker (Mar 13, 2014)

TheTimeTraveler said:


> So I wonder if they'll "grandfather" existing Lifetime Platinum Members, or will they make them re-achieve becoming Lifetime Platinum Members using the new changes that may be put into place?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I am 30 nights from LT Plat. Should have it by June……. I hope there's time for me to make it.


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## Mr. Vker (Mar 13, 2014)

EducatedConsumer said:


> You should ask one of the "Lifetime" Season Pass holders at Killington Ski Resort in Vermont about their "Lifetime" season passes. SEE:
> 
> http://www.rutlandherald.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070518/NEWS04/705180371/1002/NEWS01



This story sucks, but is a different situation. The company that sold them ceased to exit. The resort still existed, but was not obligated to honor those passes. MR will still exist…..I am hopeful they won't undo what others have earned and were promised for long term loyalty.


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## BocaBoy (Mar 14, 2014)

All the major hotel loyalty programs, including Marriott Rewards, have always been largely a revenue based model for most things except elite status.  Certainly earning points is primarily revenue based and always has been.  And Marriott Rewards already has a rather strong element of revenue in its elite requirements, albeit somewhat indirect.  I am referring to the elite nights you get from credit card spending.  Even counting timeshare stays toward elite night credit was indirectly revenue based in recognition of the huge dollars timeshare buyers had spent with Marriott to buy their weeks.

It is interesting that much of the commentary I have read on the move by airlines toward a revenue based model say they are moving more towards the revenue based model used by hotels.  I suspect any adverse changes will have less to do with becoming revenue based (we already have that) than with points devaluation.  That is what I am most afraid of.  Hilton has really gutted the value of their HHonors program through devaluation.


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## MALC9990 (Mar 14, 2014)

Mr. Vker said:


> Last year, Marriott granted Gold status to thousands and thousands of United FF's that had a certain tier. MR members got the lowest United tier--silver.
> 
> This bloated gold rosters. Packed the lounges etc.



I guess that the lounges could only be packed with guests staying at the hotel so Marriott would have achieved their objective - more United FF members were now staying at Marriott hotels.

To me the reciprocal membership has no attraction - I don't live in the USA and so United is not of any interest as a FF program.

Like many here my elite status is driven by my TS stays not hotel stays but when staying in a hotel it is almost always a Marriott, usually on our way to or from a TS stay.

In 2013 I had 118 nights of which 95 were actual real nights, the balance being rollovers - 12, CC nights - 10 (UK  CC gives only 10 nights and nothing for spend other than 2000 MR points each year), Birthday bonus - 1.

Of those 95 nights most were TS stays and some were hotel stays.  If TS stays were not to count for my elite status, then I would move my hotel stays to benefit my FF status at BA and ditch the Marriott UK CC in favour of my BAEC Amex to focus on my FF POINTS.

I do not regard my TS stays as freeloading on the MR programme


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## dioxide45 (Mar 14, 2014)

BocaBoy said:


> All the major hotel loyalty programs, including Marriott Rewards, have always been largely a revenue based model for most things except elite status.  Certainly earning points is primarily revenue based and always has been.  And Marriott Rewards already has a rather strong element of revenue in its elite requirements, albeit somewhat indirect.  I am referring to the elite nights you get from credit card spending.  Even counting timeshare stays toward elite night credit was indirectly revenue based in recognition of the huge dollars timeshare buyers had spent with Marriott to buy their weeks.
> 
> It is interesting that much of the commentary I have read on the move by airlines toward a revenue based model say they are moving more towards the revenue based model used by hotels.  I suspect any adverse changes will have less to do with becoming revenue based (we already have that) than with points devaluation.  That is what I am most afraid of.  Hilton has really gutted the value of their HHonors program through devaluation.



I would thing that Marriott makes money from Chase for every elite night Chase grants a MR member. So there is revenue there. The difference when someone stays 50 nights in a Fairfield Inn vs someone who spends 50 nights in a full service Marriott or Renn. There is likely a big revenue difference there. Though that FFI user doesn't get the same benefits that the person staying at the full service Marriott does. Though of course, once they hit 50 nights at the Fairfield Inns, they could take their stays to the full service Marriott's and get the same benefits.


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## Mr. Vker (Mar 14, 2014)

MALC9990 said:


> I do not regard my TS stays as freeloading on the MR programme



I do not either. I do think the United action has really filled the lounges. Suddenly any United passenger that was Silver can get into the lounge etc. Its also a very hot button on Flyertalk.


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## mav (Mar 14, 2014)

As much as I love the Marriotts, they are not the only hotels around. I also truly enjoy the IHG properties, Club Carlson, Hilton, and many of  the Best Westerns in EUROPE. Many of them are in old Manor Houses seeped in history, castles, a few purchased from Grand Hotels, etc. I spread it all around and have top or VERY high status in all and get excellent benefits and upgrades, especially in Europe and the Middle East. I am Platinum on Marriott again this year but next year who knows...


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## FractionalTraveler (Mar 14, 2014)

gregloucks said:


> Who are the "freeloaders" that achieve status?



Today's diluted MR program allows members to attain elite status and benefits without having to step a foot into a Marriott property or provide Marriott with any revenue whatsoever.

American Airlines Advantage program was same until 2 years ago when they recalibrated their Elite status tiers to require actually using their product to get the benefits.  As a direct result, you can no longer achieve Lifetime PLT status using any kind of bonuses, credit card point schemes, or other affiliate program perks.

FT


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## Big Matt (Mar 14, 2014)

I load up on Marriott Rewards because it is advantageous for me.  I will change direction immediately when it doesn't.  I'm going to be lifetime platinum this year or early next year.  I have 1.2 million points.  If it doesn't go my way, I will immediately begin to unload the points and look at other options.


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## MichaelColey (Mar 14, 2014)

IMHO, it's already pretty diluted and elite status has very little value.

It's hard to really compare apples to apples, but when I compare points that I get for stays, points I get for credit card spending, and points I need to use for hotel redemptions (or airline transfers), Marriott is inferior to Hilton and Starwood.

When I look at benefits I get from my status (Marriott Platinum, Hilton Diamond, SPG Gold), they're really fairly minimal.  The only one I really appreciate is Hilton's free breakfast for Gold/Diamond, and primarily because I focus on staying at Hilton Garden Inn (which has great breakfasts).

I'll adjust to whatever changes are made.


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## bazzap (Mar 14, 2014)

This sounds as though it should be definitive! 
- just received from Marriott Rewards Insiders

2015 Devaluation (rumor mill)
created by communitymanager in Marriott Rewards - View the full discussion
_"There are no changes planned to Elite benefits.  There is nothing hidden in these words – we have no devaluation of Elite benefits in the discussion, planning or execution phase.  No ‘later this spring’ announcement of any kind planned.  No new levels.  No changes to concierge lounge access.  No “Delta” model.  Annual award category changes will be announced next week."_


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## SueDonJ (Mar 14, 2014)

Thanks, Bazzap.  Here's the link to the other Marriott Rewards Insiders thread in which *communitymanager* (known official Marriott rep on that site) posted:

2015 Devaluation (rumor mill)


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## mav (Mar 14, 2014)

MichaelColey said:


> IMHO, it's already pretty diluted and elite status has very little value.
> 
> It's hard to really compare apples to apples, but when I compare points that I get for stays, points I get for credit card spending, and points I need to use for hotel redemptions (or airline transfers), Marriott is inferior to Hilton and Starwood.
> 
> ...



   I LOVE Hilton Gardem Inn breakfast. I bet I eat a bowl of blueberries every time I stay there !   Mike, if you ever stay at a Hilton in the Middle East you will be amazed at the breakfast buffet you get. They almost need an ambulance to get me out I eat so much! very different from the USA! Every breakfast is represented in some way, USA, British, Middle eastern, Asian, etc. I am a vegetarian and the options are wonderful! AAAHHH and I am heading back to Turkey in a few weeks.. and you got it, staying at a Hilton and also a Radisson. Radisson Blu is wonderful too.  They even have lentil soup on the breakfast bar


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## dougp26364 (Mar 14, 2014)

Mr. Vker said:


> Last year, Marriott granted Gold status to thousands and thousands of United FF's that had a certain tier. MR members got the lowest United tier--silver.
> 
> This bloated gold rosters. Packed the lounges etc.



When everyone's elite, the. No one os elite. Our last few flights on United I've noticed there are so many "elites" that 2/3's of the departure lounges boarded early. It was both sad and funny at the same time. My thought was elite status and CC perks had little value anymore.


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## Mamianka (Mar 14, 2014)

dougp26364 said:


> When everyone's elite, the. No one os elite. Our last few flights on United I've noticed there are so many "elites" that 2/3's of the departure lounges boarded early. It was both sad and funny at the same time. My thought was elite status and CC perks had little value anymore.




What was that old Groucho quote?:  "Any club that would take ME as a member, is not worth joining!"  Yup - we all seem to want some kind of elite status- until THEY over there, get it also.  We, too will "vote with our feet" when and if things no longer suit us.  I was called to sit in a focus group this week, for baking and credit union businesses.  Of course, no two people are the same, and our needs vary greatly over our lives.  We basically have NO need for any loans, mortgages, or anything except to tell our MS broker "Here is money - make lots more of it."  But there were people who were TOO enthusiastic about getting free blender, or even iPad - or how convenient the PARKING LOT was.  They could not understand that *freebies* are very expensive on the other end of the deal.

We periodically examine our credit card positions - since we have never carried a balance one month in 42 years, the interest rate is immaterial - and if the value given ( free night?) is worth more than the annual card fee - that is fine. (We have friends who REFUSE to EVER pay a fee for a card - and then whine that they are *not getting anything good*  Really?) But THE DAY that this goes south - we leave.  I am certain that others will have the same thought - Loyalty Cards are for OUR benefit, not theirs, except for the tiny fraction we allow.  Feeling another quote coming on - like Gen. George Patton said, "Son - the objective is NOT for YOU to die for your country - it is for the OTHER S.O.B. to die for HIS country!"  This is pretty much my attitude towards loyalty card, credit cards, and interest in general.  We spend enough for them to make their slice off the *skim* as it were - no, they may not have *seconds*.


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## SMHarman (Mar 14, 2014)

The United Premier Access line at Newark is usually longer and slower than the general access line.


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## Mr. Vker (Mar 14, 2014)

SMHarman said:


> The United Premier Access line at Newark is usually longer and slower than the general access line.



I love boarding a United plane…(I have Silver now due to MR relationship but prior…)

Preboard
First Class
Elites
Premier Access
Everyone Not Named Mr. Vker
MR. VKER!!!


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## Fairwinds (Mar 14, 2014)

When staying at one of the Autograph Collection Hotels do MR members receive room upgrades commensurate with what you would expect at a marriott?


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## Mr. Vker (Mar 14, 2014)

Fairwinds said:


> When staying at one of the Autograph Collection Hotels do MR members receive room upgrades commensurate with what you would expect at a marriott?



We got a FANTASTIC upgrade to a plunge pool casita suite at Punta Islita in Costa Rica. This was last month during their busiest month of the year. This was on a MR stay as well.


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## Wally3433 (Mar 15, 2014)

Use em if you got em.


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## BocaBoy (Mar 15, 2014)

MichaelColey said:


> IMHO, it's already pretty diluted and elite status has very little value.
> 
> It's hard to really compare apples to apples, but when I compare points that I get for stays, points I get for credit card spending, and points I need to use for hotel redemptions (or airline transfers), *Marriott is inferior to Hilton* and Starwood.


I really have to disagree with you here.  I am Hilton Gold and Marriott Platinum and to me there is no comparison--MR wins hands down.  Hilton has devalued its program so badly over the past two or three years that I am considering whether to even try to accrue any more Hilton points.  I have never been a heavy Starwood user so I can't really compare that program with any authority, but from what I know it seems better today than Hilton's.

Also, I find Marriott's Platinum and Gold elite benefits to be of great value--lounge access/free breakfasts, bonus points, room upgrades, and much more.


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## BocaBoy (Mar 15, 2014)

Big Matt said:


> I load up on Marriott Rewards because it is advantageous for me.  I will change direction immediately when it doesn't.  I'm going to be lifetime platinum this year or early next year.  *I have 1.2 million points.*  If it doesn't go my way, I will immediately begin to unload the points and look at other options.


You must be planning a big year.  You need 2 million points for lifetime Platinum.


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## BocaBoy (Mar 15, 2014)

FractionalTraveler said:


> Today's diluted MR program allows members to attain elite status and benefits without having to step a foot into a Marriott property or provide Marriott with any revenue whatsoever.FT



Except for Silver (which carries almost no perks), that would be very difficult to do.   No stays and no credit card spend.  How would you get the required nights?  Can't be timeshare stays because that requires setting foot in a Marriott.  Or are you referring to the United partnership?


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## FractionalTraveler (Mar 15, 2014)

BocaBoy said:


> Except for Silver (which carries almost no perks), that would be very difficult to do.   No stays and no credit card spend.  How would you get the required nights?  Can't be timeshare stays because that requires setting foot in a Marriott.  Or are you referring to the United partnership?



Many partner offers are provided year after year that give access to free elite status.  Just like you can get free Hertz Rewards Gold Plus, Reciprocal agreements are always available.  They seem to ignore their own terms and conditions when establishing these reciprocal agreements.

In fact you could call or email MR right now and ask them for a free trial of GOLD or PLT and they may give it to you no strings attached.  That's what a friend on mine did and to his amazement he was a PLT for 1 year free of charge.  Was great for his honeymoon trip.

FT


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## mav (Mar 15, 2014)

Hi Boca,
  I am Marriott Platinum and Hilton Gold also. Actually both serve me VERY well. A lot of it may be what country you are booking  in and Hilton works EXTREMELY well for me in certain areas of the world. The room upgrades are jaw dropping, way better then the USA and also the breakfast buffets are amazing.  The welcome gift I have received in the Middle East is a PLATTER of fruit and a Platter of sweets! The sweets are amazing!!! :whoopie:  In one of the Emirates at a Hilton  they actually gave us a welcome platter twice in 4 days, I don't know if the second welcome platters were sent in error or not but the staff there REALLY seemed to like us.  I am one one of what seems to be rather in sparse supply on tug. As an avid timeshare users almost 25 years, we now spend a lot of time in hotels.  It is just DH and I mostly on our travels and because of the upgrades and other perks hotels are working much better. I GIVE most of our timeshare weeks to family to use.  I have never used Starwood, but IHG works VERY well for me too.


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## Mr. Vker (Mar 15, 2014)

FractionalTraveler said:


> Many partner offers are provided year after year that give access to free elite status.  Just like you can get free Hertz Rewards Gold Plus, Reciprocal agreements are always available.  They seem to ignore their own terms and conditions when establishing these reciprocal agreements.
> 
> In fact you could call or email MR right now and ask them for a free trial of GOLD or PLT and they may give it to you no strings attached.  That's what a friend on mine did and to his amazement he was a PLT for 1 year free of charge.  Was great for his honeymoon trip.
> 
> FT



A little OT, buy Hertz #1 Gold is now available to everyone. Don't have to pay or qualify. Just sign up through Hertz.com. This was done to compete with National. That's the ultimate devaluation--letting everyone in!


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## BocaBoy (Mar 15, 2014)

mav said:


> Hi Boca,
> I am Marriott Platinum and Hilton Gold also. Actually both serve me VERY well. A lot of it may be what country you are booking  in and Hilton works EXTREMELY well for me in certain areas of the world. The room upgrades are jaw dropping, way better then the USA and also the breakfast buffets are amazing.  The welcome gift I have received in the Middle East is a PLATTER of fruit and a Platter of sweets! The sweets are amazing!!! :whoopie:  In one of the Emirates at a Hilton  they actually gave us a welcome platter twice in 4 days, I don't know if the second welcome platters were sent in error or not but the staff there REALLY seemed to like us.  I am one one of what seems to be rather in sparse supply on tug. As an avid timeshare users almost 25 years, we now spend a lot of time in hotels.  It is just DH and I mostly on our travels and because of the upgrades and other perks hotels are working much better. I GIVE most of our timeshare weeks to family to use.  I have never used Starwood, but IHG works VERY well for me too.



Agreed.  I have been using Hilton almost exclusively in the U.S.  My comments were more based on the devaluation of points than on the perks provided to elites.  Although it was a real takeaway when Hilton started giving lounge access only to those upgraded to the concierge floor.


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## FractionalTraveler (Mar 15, 2014)

At what point in time do we think that MR point devaluation from a timeshare user's perspective will be such that the benefit is basically non-existent?

Have we reached that point today?  Considering that MR category changes will probably be announced in the next 7 days, we will see shortly what additional effects it will have on timeshare owners.

Looking at my own example, those 125K MR Points I can trade every year for on one of my units purchased back in 1999 will probably get me 2-3 nights max at a comparable hotel today.  That's really useless in my book of value.  So what does that mean I can expect in the next 5-10 years?  Will there come a day when those points only get me 1 glorious night?  

*I think that this benefit goes down like a sunset in Maui and never comes back like a sunrise in Phuket some day in the near future!*

FT


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## MALC9990 (Mar 15, 2014)

BocaBoy said:


> You must be planning a big year.  You need 2 million points for lifetime Platinum.



I understand that the 2 million points requirement is for lifetime points - my current number of points is well below 2 million but in the time that I have been a member I have earned and burned well over 2 million.


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## bazzap (Mar 15, 2014)

MALC9990 said:


> I understand that the 2 million points requirement is for lifetime points - my current number of points is well below 2 million but in the time that I have been a member I have earned and burned well over 2 million.


That is certainly my understanding too Malcolm and more importantly what Marriott say
http://www.marriott.com/marriott/rewards/elite-benefits.mi
Elite Lifetime Status is determined by your total qualified nights stayed and points earned throughout the course of your membership – including your paid nights, Elite rollover nights, meeting nights and the nights and points earned on your Marriott Rewards Credit Card.


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## SueDonJ (Mar 15, 2014)

FractionalTraveler said:


> At what point in time do we think that MR point devaluation from a timeshare user's perspective will be such that the benefit is basically non-existent?
> 
> Have we reached that point today?  Considering that MR category changes will probably be announced in the next 7 days, we will see shortly what additional effects it will have on timeshare owners.
> 
> ...



Wracking up Elite Nights and MRP by using the credit card and staying in the timeshares is something we'd be doing anyway, so the way I figure, whatever they're giving us is free because we're not doing anything proactively to earn them.  It would be a different story if our plans at the time of purchase had included exchanging the timeshares for MRP on a regular basis, but that was never our plan.

We'll continue taking advantage of Travel Packages and status upgrades as long as they're available for the little bit of non-timeshare travel we're doing now, knowing that Marriott will regularly adjust the hotel tiers and other benefits up/down based on demand.  If ever the MR Program is devalued to the extent that we get nothing out of it then we'll look at other programs.  But like I said earlier in the thread, if we don't do enough non-timeshare travel or whatever else is required to maintain Marriott status, then I can't imagine we'll do enough business to gain it with any other hotel program.


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## BocaBoy (Mar 15, 2014)

MALC9990 said:


> I understand that the 2 million points requirement is for lifetime points - my current number of points is well below 2 million but in the time that I have been a member I have earned and burned well over 2 million.



Just wanted to be sure you knew that.  I was not sure because your post mentioned 1.2 million points, which if they are current points  is irrelevant to the question of lifetime status you were addressing in your post.  So, since you mentioned it, I kind of thought you were only at 1.2 million lifetime points.  Otherwise I would not have commented.


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## NboroGirl (Mar 15, 2014)

How does one find out how many total points they've earned so far?  I don't see it anywhere when I log into my MR account.


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## SueDonJ (Mar 15, 2014)

NboroGirl said:


> How does one find out how many total points they've earned so far?  I don't see it anywhere when I log into my MR account.



You have to call to get your total Lifetime MRP amount.


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## dioxide45 (Mar 15, 2014)

Edited: What Sue said...


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## TheTimeTraveler (Mar 15, 2014)

NboroGirl said:


> How does one find out how many total points they've earned so far?  I don't see it anywhere when I log into my MR account.






If you log into Marriott.com, sign into your account and look on the upper right hand corner.

That is where mine is listed so hopefully yours will be also.

Edited to add:  This is where your actual point balance is;  you will have to call in order to obtain your lifetime balance.



.


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## dioxide45 (Mar 15, 2014)

TheTimeTraveler said:


> If you log into Marriott.com, sign into your account and look on the upper right hand corner.
> 
> That is where mine is listed so hopefully yours will be also.
> 
> ...



That only shows your current points, not your total lifetime points.


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## TheTimeTraveler (Mar 15, 2014)

dioxide45 said:


> That only shows your current points, not your total lifetime points.





Correct!




.


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## mav (Mar 15, 2014)

BocaBoy said:


> Agreed.  I have been using Hilton almost exclusively in the U.S.  My comments were more based on the devaluation of points than on the perks provided to elites.  Although it was a real takeaway when Hilton started giving lounge access only to those upgraded to the concierge floor.




  I forgot to mention that I book the entry level rooms and am consistantly upgraded to VERY LARGE 1 bedroom rooms. REALLY nice!  And the staff in the hotels are incredible .


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## dualrated2 (Mar 15, 2014)

You may also email customer support for your lifetime total.


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## MichaelColey (Mar 16, 2014)

SueDonJ said:


> Wracking up Elite Nights and MRP by using the credit card and staying in the timeshares is something we'd be doing anyway, so the way I figure, whatever they're giving us is free because we're not doing anything proactively to earn them.


There is a cost to using a credit card, and that cost is what you could have earned by using other cards.

For instance, spending $2 million to earn 2 million MR points costs you the $20,000 that you could have earned on a 1% cash back card, or whatever you value 2 million StarPoints or 2.5 million airline miles at, if you use a Starwood AmEx (my favorite card).

That said, I do have and use a Marriott Visa as a secondary card for places that don't accept my primary (SPG AmEx) or that give 2x or more points (Marriott, restaurants). Also, overseas where my Visa has no forex fees.


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## Big Matt (Mar 16, 2014)

I have 1.2 million points just sitting there.  I have almost 2.5 million points over my time with the program.  I need the nights to get lifetime platinum.  



BocaBoy said:


> You must be planning a big year.  You need 2 million points for lifetime Platinum.


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## Big Matt (Mar 16, 2014)

Your argument makes sense on the surface, but you don't need to spend anywhere near $20,000 to get 2 million Marriott points.  When you take into account your spending on Marriott (5 points per dollar) and airlines and restaurants (2 points per dollar) you can get to 2 million with a lot fewer dollars (as few as $4000). 

Now, ask how much 2 million points are worth.  They are worth a LOT if you use them wisely with travel packages.

The key for me is to double down with whatever loyalty card you use.  Only use one where you are going to spend it in a way that multiplies your benefits quickly.  



MichaelColey said:


> There is a cost to using a credit card, and that cost is what you could have earned by using other cards.
> 
> For instance, spending $2 million to earn 2 million MR points costs you the $20,000 that you could have earned on a 1% cash back card, or whatever you value 2 million StarPoints or 2.5 million airline miles at, if you use a Starwood AmEx (my favorite card).
> 
> That said, I do have and use a Marriott Visa as a secondary card for places that don't accept my primary (SPG AmEx) or that give 2x or more points (Marriott, restaurants). Also, overseas where my Visa has no forex fees.


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## Mr. Vker (Mar 16, 2014)

Big Matt said:


> I have 1.2 million points just sitting there.  I have almost 2.5 million points over my time with the program.  I need the nights to get lifetime platinum.



You have them then. You don't need 2mm points at one time.  Now you need 750 nights.


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## Beaglemom3 (Mar 19, 2014)

mav said:


> As much as I love the Marriotts, they are not the only hotels around. I also truly enjoy the IHG properties, Club Carlson, Hilton, and many of  the Best Westerns in EUROPE. Many of them are in old Manor Houses seeped in history, castles, a few purchased from Grand Hotels, etc. I spread it all around and have top or VERY high status in all and get excellent benefits and upgrades, especially in Europe and the Middle East. I am Platinum on Marriott again this year but next year who knows...



  You know, I appreciate this advice as it makes sense for me, so I applied for a Carlson Card (having 18,000 pts. languishing unused since 2011) and got one. 
  I get 250,000 MRPs from my auction score of 2 CH Plats and my DF gets 75000, so we are all set with MRPs.
  We enjoy the Marriotts, but want to be able to book elsewhere, too.

  Thanks, Mav. Great idea.


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## mlester35 (Mar 20, 2014)

BocaBoy said:


> I really have to disagree with you here.  I am Hilton Gold and Marriott Platinum and to me there is no comparison--MR wins hands down.  Hilton has devalued its program so badly over the past two or three years that I am considering whether to even try to accrue any more Hilton points.  I have never been a heavy Starwood user so I can't really compare that program with any authority, but from what I know it seems better today than Hilton's.
> 
> Also, I find Marriott's Platinum and Gold elite benefits to be of great value--lounge access/free breakfasts, bonus points, room upgrades, and much more.



I agree with you Boca the Hilton brand has gotten to diluted over the last few years or so and I have switched to Hyatt this year. I will continue to hit my Plat with Marriott each year but my Diamond status with Hilton is a thing of the past unless they change.


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## MichaelColey (Mar 21, 2014)

I think it depends on where you stay and what you're looking for, and whether you're paying with your own money or someone else's.  Also, a huge difference (for all programs) domestically vs. internationally.  All of them seem to do a great program overseas, but only marginal here in the US.

From everything I've seen, Starwood is probably the best program.  Very nice properties.  Good treatment of Platinums.  But they don't work for me.  Most places I travel don't have Starwood hotels, and the ones that do are usually more expensive than I want to pay.  Breakfasts are all over the board, with continental (which I can't stand) the most common.

Marriott can be pretty nice.  I honestly don't see much difference between Gold and Platinum in the places I stay.  They have really good coverage (mainly with their lower end properties), but they're also usually more expensive (often 20-50% more than comparable hotels) so I seldom choose them.  Breakfasts are generally only marginally better the continental.

Hilton has been my "go to" chain for about 5 years now, primarily because of Hilton Garden Inn.  I'm usually able to find an HGI (and sometimes an Embassy Suites or Doubltree, or almost always a Hampton if not one of the others) at a rate that's one of the lowest in the area.  As a Diamond, I get a free hot cooked breakfast at HGI (Gold's do, too).

When it comes to point earning for stays vs. point redemption, Hilton seems to beat out Starwood slightly and Marriott comes out last.

When it comes to point earning from credit card spending, Starwood is the clear winner (other than categories where you earn 2X or more with Hilton), with Marriott being last again.  I have such a hard time getting good value out of my Marriott points.

Starwood and Hilton also have the advantage (for those of us who spend a lot on credit cards) that you can get status through CC spend ($30k on the SPG AmEx gets you Gold, $40k on the HH Surpass AmEx gets you Diamond).  I guess technically Marriott does, too, since you get 1 night toward elite credit for $3k, but that's a LOT of spend (that you don't get very valuable points for) to get status.

Starwood points are extra valuable because of the ability to transfer them at ratios up to 1.25 to 1 to airline miles.  I get really good value out of hotel stays, but also out of airline miles.  Hilton and Marriott (other than through packages, and even that is diluted because a large part of your points go to hotels) are poor values when transferring to miles.


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## mav (Mar 21, 2014)

Beaglemom3 said:


> You know, I appreciate this advice as it makes sense for me, so I applied for a Carlson Card (having 18,000 pts. languishing unused since 2011) and got one.
> I get 250,000 MRPs from my auction score of 2 CH Plats and my DF gets 75000, so we are all set with MRPs.
> We enjoy the Marriotts, but want to be able to book elsewhere, too.
> 
> Thanks, Mav. Great idea.



Hi Beaglemom,
   I hope it works well for you! When we fly into Istanbul we like to stay at the Radisson Blu aiport for 1 night to recover from the jet lag. they have a free shuttle to and from the airport. There is a mall you can walk to in about 15 min. from the hotel and we like to go shopping there and have dinner at the  mall. We are the only Westerners I have seen at this mall. On the walk back there is a nut shop that has the best nuts I have ever tasted. The next day we have a drop dead fantastic breakfast buffet at the hotel and check out, call a cab and head to old town Istanbul. It is one of our favorite cities.
   IHG is another great hotel chain and European Best Westerns are very nice. I ALWAYS read reviews before booking anything, however.
   Don't forget to check independant hotels also! In the Middle East I have received tremendous upgrades at various hotels. When I was in Abu Dhabi in last year when I went to check into a Millenium Hotel I was actually embarrassed to check in! The place was opulent and I looked NOT so . My hair was literally standing on end from the dry heat, and I had on my capri leggings and a top. The lobby was amazing, and the sheiks and other guests "gracing" the lobby area were literally dripping money. I will admit I looked every bit the Target shopper. I expected to be tossed from the hotel, when the gentleman who was the greeter at the door showed me to the check in desk. I mean they were beautiful and ornate desks and you were seated in lovely chairs while you were checked in. A EXTREMELY nice man checked me in and seemed to find it very funny that I told him I had never been checked into a hotel in such style. He told me I was being upgraded to a  I can't even remember what room type. I told him that sounded wonderful. My husband came into the hotel at that time and the gentleman at the desk welcomed him and told him he hoped we enjoyed our stay. We almost fainted when we saw the room. It would have rivaled a Ritz or a Four Seasons , and a top floor with an incredible view! A few minutes later a fruit platter was delivered to our room.  FANTASTIC 3 night stay with a fabulous buffet breakfast included. And I had booked the entry level room thru lateroom.com
Needless to say at check out we tipped the guy who checked us in quite well!


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## dannybaker (Mar 22, 2014)

*Marriott platinum no real value to my family*

Let me first say we love Marriott, we have been a fan and happy customer for the last twenty years. We own several timeshares with Marriott and we spend 35 plus nights annually with Marriott. We only stay at Marriott hotels occasionally, we rely on priceline and other hotels for our stays. We have realized a large decrease in the over all Marriott Value both with points for stays and actual rewards for platinum status. Sadly we are ready to move on from Marriott hotel chains. We stayed at a Embassy Suites in Anaheim for $56 a night for six nights. They provided free snacks and drinks from 5:30-7:30, and a full breakfast with fresh fruit and omelette made to order. We looked at the local Marriott's and they wanted 25,000 points or $179 a night and no breakfast or drinks. We travel frequently on weekends and most Marriott's have their concierge lounges closed on weekends. We love Marriott timeshares and always look forward to spending family vacation time at Marriott's. 

As Mike stated earlier not a real big deal to my family. :whoopie:


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## MichaelColey (Mar 23, 2014)

$56 a night for an Embassy Suites in Anaheim?  That must have been through Priceline.  That's an incredible price.

Searching on a randomly picked (but non-holiday) 5-night stay in Anaheim, the lowest prices I see for my three favorite chains are $89 for a Hampton, $98 for a Fairfield, $106 for a Sheraton, $106 for a Hilton Garden Inn, $109 for a Doubletree, $109 for a Marriott Suites, $116 for an Embassy Suites, $121 for a Residence Inn, $132 for a Marriott, and $194 for a Westin.

Out of that batch of choices, I would almost definitely pick the Hilton Garden Inn for $106 (as long as I have Gold or higher status for free breakfast), $116 for Embassy Suites (if I had no status, since everyone gets free breakfast) or possibly the Residence Inn for $121 (if with family and we wanted the ability to cook).

If I could get the Embassy Suites for $56 (even if I didn't earn elite credits, points, or get perks from my status), I would jump on that.  But with my luck, I would get an awful hotel with just one bed (Priceline only guarantees accommodations for 2), a lousy breakfast, and a high "resort fee".


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## MickyTT (Mar 27, 2014)

Mr. Vker said:


> I am 30 nights from LT Plat. Should have it by June……. I hope there's time for me to make it.



Unfortunately, lifetime Platinum require a a combo of 750 nights plus  2 million reward points earned. I've got the nights but am 600k points short so I only get gold.


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## FractionalTraveler (Mar 27, 2014)

MickyTT said:


> Unfortunately, lifetime Platinum require a a combo of 750 nights plus  2 million reward points earned. I've got the nights but am 600k points short so I only get gold.



Easy to chip away at those 600K points with some activities:

1. Have meetings at Marriott Hotels (can usually get between 50-100K)
2. Host a wedding (F&B spends with a minimum of 10 rooms gets you around 500K - 750K points depending on property used)
3. Buy a car on the MR Visa Card or just pay the deposit
4. Pay your timeshare MF using the MR Visa Card
5. Get yearly Mega Bonuses (100K)
6. Book a holiday trip Using Marriott Vacations and pay with the MR Visa card including cruises.

FT


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