# Resale Questions



## NTFisher91 (Nov 20, 2013)

Hello!

So my wife and I recently purchased two Wyndham timeshares on eBay. They are both at Bentley Brook, and both have annual usage.

They are both fixed week - 1 bedroom, week 12 (float 1-6, 8-13, 51) studio, week 19 (float 14-21, 42-48).

I'm not sure what would be the best option for me with these. I really like the idea of having a fixed week with a deeded unit. But the flexibility of the points system sounds nice. So I guess these are the options, and what do you think?

1.) Keep them both as is.

2.) See if I can trade them both in with Wyndham directly for a 2 bedroom fixed week. Do they still offer fixed weeks or do they only deal with points now?

3.) Turn both of them into points-based. How much would this cost? How many points would I get? Is there a discount on converting them if I do it at the same time as buying something directly from them? At some point, I'd be interested in having about 800,000 points total.

Would trading a studio and a 1-bedroom into 1-week 2-bedroom save me on maintenance fees? Would converting them both to points save me on fees? Would doing so create any additional annual fees?

Thanks! I look forward to hearing responses from all of you experts!


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## cassvilleokie (Nov 20, 2013)

Guessing you meant Bentley Brook,

1. In some instances Wyndham will allow you to convert to points from a floating week. This would allow you to use points to book when you wanted and the largest unit you have points for.

2. Those of us who have purchased resale DO NOT HAVE THE OPTION of trading in what you own for a new deed and or points with Wyndham. Yes Fixed weeks are still offered but typically they are converted to points when you purchase them.

3. If you convert into points at a sales center it would require a purchase, in some cases Wyndham Corp will do this for you as several here have been able to do. The questions here is have you done any homework thru the threads here and on Wyndhamvacationresorts.com to see how many points you would need.

The last question is not so easy to answer, No way to trade them into a 2 bedroom unless you sold your two to someone and they sold you a 2 bedroom. Converting them to points may save you on fees but with points you also pay a .56 cent program fee with a minimum base to start.

Here are some questions to ask yourself for the future:

1. where do I want to vacation--- same place or somewhere different everytime.

2. what size of room do I need most often.

3 Do i want all the bells and whistles that only come from buying from developer and most would say not worth it.

So a lot to ask yourself and Welcome and Good Luck.


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## ronparise (Nov 20, 2013)

Im not sure cassvilleokie has it exactly right

First you get my lecture...and that is you should have asked these questions about options, before you bought. Yotu would have had more options and they would have been cheaper.

Its too late for that now...but you still have options

1) use what you have..To be sure you get the weeks you want pay your mf and call early. With floating weeks if you wait too long you not only run the risk of not getting what you want, there is a risk of not getting anything at all

2) Wyndham doesnt sell  weeks anymore; only points, but in most cases they will convert your week to points for a fee. Last I checked the fee was $2500/week

heres the point chart for Bently Brook...as you can see your 1 bed corresponds to "high" season and 105000 points.  Your studio to Quiet season or 49000 points...to my way of thinking not a good use of the weeks or $5000 it would take to convert






If you could dump these two weeks and buy a 2 bedroom Im betting your maintenance fees would be reduced, but you wouldnt have the choice of weeks to vacation you have now. 

If you convert your weeks to points your fees will go up by the program fee. This is the fee that Wyndham charges to administer the points program In your case if you converted the two weeks you will be charged the minimum which is (im pretty sure) $108 a year.

It sounds like you want points. I would try to resell these weeks two weeks (or give them away) (you may even have to pay someone an incentive to get rid of them) and buy points You should be able to buy points today for under a penny a point...800000 points should be between $2000 and $8000, (all fees included) depending on the maintenance fees. If you like the idea of a fixed week, you can buy fixed weeks that others have already converted to points. Be careful though. Some of these (like yours) will have a very high maintenance fee rate ($/1000 points) but there are some that are quite low (Bali Hai for example) 

If you buy something from Wyndham they will convert a week or two for free, but what you buy will be so expensive that its not worth it (about 10-20 cents a point)


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## NTFisher91 (Nov 20, 2013)

So if I would buy points from Wyndham directly, say 646,000 points, they'd covert the two deeded weeks to points, and I'd have 800,000 points total, but I'd be looking at about $64,600.00 to $129,200.00? 

My understanding with the fixed weeks that I have are they are guaranteed for my use. They each have a fixed week and float weeks, so does that mean I'm guaranteed that fixed week every year, but I have the option to pick a different week from the float weeks (subject to availability)?

Do you get any sort of deed when you are only points-based? It sounded to me it's more like a "club" where you pay your "dues" and you are "allowed" to use their facilities. Where as the fixed week seems like you actually physically own something?

I'm sorry if these seem like dumb questions. I did try to read some of the posts on here, and the owner's guide that I believe Ron actually posted a link for, but I'm still a bit confused.


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## NTFisher91 (Nov 20, 2013)

Also, the maintenance and taxes for the 1 bedroom was quoted at $801.57 and the studio said $775.00 maintenance and taxes.


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## NTFisher91 (Nov 20, 2013)

Also, Ron - you said there are fixed weeks that have been converted to points for "if I like to buy fixed weeks." Does this mean that there are solid fixed weeks with no point value, fixed weeks with a sort of "points option," and just straight points? Could you explain that a bit more please? Thanks!


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## ronparise (Nov 20, 2013)

NTFisher91 said:


> Also, Ron - you said there are fixed weeks that have been converted to points for "if I like to buy fixed weeks." Does this mean that there are solid fixed weeks with no point value, fixed weeks with a sort of "points option," and just straight points? Could you explain that a bit more please? Thanks!



These are not dumb questions, but to answer them you need a history lesson (the history of Wyndham) and you also need some insight into the history and development of timeshares. Ie you need to know what a fixed week is and a floating week and points. and you need to know all these and more are available in the Wyndham system

The wyndam system grew out of a company called Fairfield, and over the years Wyndham (and Cendant before them) grew the system by buying other smaller systems (Equivest, Pahio) and by building their own resorts. (Bonnet Creek, National Harbor and others)

The early resorts were weeks, either fixed weeks or floating weeks, When Wyndham went to a points system, any unsold weeks in their inventory were converted to points and they convinced lots of weeks owners to convert. Owners of these weeks usually have a deed for a particular unit/week. 

The resorts built after Wyndham's move to points are UDI (undivided interest) deeds. A UDI deed is for some fraction of the whole resort, not for a specific unit/week.  

In all cases points are symbolic of your ownership. The deeds are pledged to a trust. In exchange you get points that allow for reservations to be made at any resort in the system... 

to complicate things even more Wyndham has created Club Wyndham Access. With this thing the Club holds the deeds and we members are well..., members. We have a certificate as evidence of our membership and our level of membership is determined by the points we have been assigned.

Every resort in the Wyndham system is its own thing, with its own HOA and board of directors. (of course Wyndham controls most of them) Maintenance fees are set by the individual resorts, and each resort has its own rules and procedures.

Some examples: 
Riverside Suites weeks  are fixed weeks, I own week 13, unit 710, and every year that unit is mine. I dont even have to call to tell them Im coming. 

Avenue Plaza is a floating weeks resort, I own a specific unit/week, but thats meaningless. all weeks float. I have to call to make my reservation, and if I dont call early enough, its possible I wont get any use of my ownership that year. 

You already know about Bentley Brook

Fairfield Harbor, is a weeks resort,  but the weeks I own were converted to points by a previous owner. I can have a reservation for my week if I call early, but at 10 months my week becomes available to any points owner (and of course my points are good at all the other resorts too.

National Harbor, is a UDI resort. I have a deed but its for a fraction of the whole place. every deed is part of the trust and every owner is assigned points

I hope this little "look behind the curtain" helps. Probably not, I tend to ramble and go off topic

Just know this...If you want the guarantee of a certain week at a certain resort, buy a fixed week. If you want the flexibility to visit a certain resort at different times, buy floating weeks, and if you total flexibility to visit different resorts at different times, buy points.

Theres more to it than that, but thats enough for now


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## NTFisher91 (Nov 20, 2013)

Thanks Ron, that is very helpful. So my assigned weeks/units are meaningless because it's floating. 

So let's say I'd convert the two I have into points, I'd get one new undivided interest deed for Bentley Brook? If I converted them with Wyndham (not saying that I want to do this, just curious), would that then make them eligible towards VIP status? 

I'm thinking I'd like to keep these two, and book them back-to-back if possible (like weeks 50 and 51), and buy around 800,000 points resale if possible.  I'm thinking of maybe converting them to points though. I know it'd be around $5,000.00, but it's still less than if I'd have paid for them from Wyndham directly, right? So I feel like I'd be able to use that logic to rationalize the fee. What do you think?


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## MaryBella7 (Nov 20, 2013)

If I understand correctly, based on the maintenance fees you quoted, you would be paying an astronomical maintenance fee for those 2 units to be converted to points.  I would dump them and get resale points.  

You could give a buyer the incentive of paying all of the transfer fees to dump the two timeshares you have (about $700 each). Then buy a resale that is already points (probably even more than the 154,000 points you would have gotten from those two).  You would have way lower maintenance fees and more points for under the $5000 conversion cost you are looking to spend.


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## NTFisher91 (Nov 20, 2013)

Why would the maintenance fees be astronomical for them to be converted?


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## ronparise (Nov 20, 2013)

NTFisher91 said:


> Thanks Ron, that is very helpful. So my assigned weeks/units are meaningless because it's floating.
> 
> So let's say I'd convert the two I have into points, I'd get one new undivided interest deed for Bentley Brook? If I converted them with Wyndham (not saying that I want to do this, just curious), would that then make them eligible towards VIP status?
> 
> I'm thinking I'd like to keep these two, and book them back-to-back if possible (like weeks 50 and 51), and buy around 800,000 points resale if possible.  I'm thinking of maybe converting them to points though. I know it'd be around $5,000.00, but it's still less than if I'd have paid for them from Wyndham directly, right? So I feel like I'd be able to use that logic to rationalize the fee. What do you think?



no and no

You could convert them to points, but you would still own what you own now...The process is that you assign your ownership to the Fairshare Trust, and in exchange you get points that are symbolic of your ownership, And points from weeks purchase resale are almost never vip qualified

You could use that logic to rationalize the fee, but you would still be out $5000. and your mf will be high too. I think either use these weeks or sell them


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## MaryBella7 (Nov 20, 2013)

I could be completely wrong, but if the maintenance fees you quoted ($1576) are what you would still be paying if you convert to points (154,000), you would be paying over $10 per thousand points.

I have one contract for 154,000 points that costs me $757 per year - about half of what you would be paying for the same thing.  

Once again, I could be wrong - I never converted points, so I could misunderstand the process.  I am assuming your fees would stay the same though if you convert.


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## Bigrob (Nov 20, 2013)

NTFisher91 said:


> Why would the maintenance fees be astronomical for them to be converted?



Because they are off-season so don't translate to many points, but bear the same maintenance fees as prime weeks that command many more points.

I would recommend the OP take a deep breath and slow down, figure out what you are trying to do, then develop your plan based on that. Probably some good advice is to "try it before you buy it" in your case. Especially if you are interested in weeks 50 and 51... by a happy coincidence a lot of mega renters have points toward the end of the calendar year that you can "rent" cheap (by rent, I mean, pay for a reservation made with their points). You may actually find this gives you the most flexibility with the least amount of fuss - and lowest cost to boot.

Check the TUG marketplace. There are usually ads renting "points" as well as specific resorts/intervals.


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## ronparise (Nov 20, 2013)

NTFisher91 said:


> Why would the maintenance fees be astronomical for them to be converted?



lets do the math

$801.57
$775.00 
_______
$1576.57 maintenance and taxes.
$108 program fee
____
$1684.57  / 154000 points = $10.95 per 1000 points


Thats high


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## Bigrob (Nov 20, 2013)

lhumes7 said:


> I could be completely wrong, but if the maintenance fees you quoted ($1576) are what you would still be paying if you convert to points (154,000), you would be paying over $10 per thousand points.
> 
> I have one contract for 154,000 points that costs me $757 per year - about half of what you would be paying for the same thing.
> 
> Once again, I could be wrong - I never converted points, so I could misunderstand the process.  I am assuming your fees would stay the same though if you convert.



It's actually worse than that, because you also would add the program fee that Ron mentioned (currently $108 minimum). $1684 for only 154K points would be one of the highest ratios I've ever heard. For comparison - $4.50/K is good $5.25/K is fair, $6.00/K is high. 

A$ you $aid, $10.00/K (or higher) is a$$$$$tronomical.


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## NTFisher91 (Nov 20, 2013)

I think I'm just going to keep them as is and try to book them back to back at weeks 50 and 51 each year, and just buy points separately for trading to go to other resorts. Those would be early- to mid-December, which would be good for skiing.


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## MaryBella7 (Nov 20, 2013)

NTFisher91 said:


> Those would be early- to mid-December, which would be good for skiing.



They are making snow at Jiminy right now!!   And, you really couldn't get a better location for skiing easily.  Step out of your door, and there's a lift!  It's a great resort, too - very friendly and has lots of activities.  

If you plan to use them as you plan, then there is your value!  Enjoy


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## NTFisher91 (Nov 20, 2013)

Thanks Linda, makes me feel better.  Haha


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## cassvilleokie (Nov 20, 2013)

YEP Jiminy and Smuggs making snow


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## NTFisher91 (Jan 25, 2014)

Ok, so Wyndham finally transferred the 2 contracts to my wife and me. I called title services, and they can see my wife and my name on the contracts, but they didn't know our member number (the member number was different for both contracts, and when I tried to set it up online, it said it was already in use), so I'm assuming those are the member numbers for the previous owners.

They transferred my call to owner services (who I believe was points, because she said she could see my name and town, but couldn't see a member number because I was fixed weeks). So she transferred me to a different number (who I believe was for fixed weeks). She noticed the two different member numbers, I explained that I tried to set up the account online, and it said the member numbers were in use, so she said she would place a "research request." I haven't heard anything back yet. What should I do about this? Has anyone else had problems like this?

I still have not received anything in the mail. (No maintenance fee bill, no "welcome" packet, etc.). 

BUT, biggest issue I think is this: The eBay listings said they were float weeks. I understood this to mean that I could book it for the corresponding season the "fixed" week that was assigned was in. When I spoke to Wyndham, they said they were just plain fixed weeks. As Ron mentioned, I believe this means I can only use those specific weeks each year unless I pay to deposit it into a "week transfer pool," and hope someone else deposits the week I want. Is that correct? What is the process for this? How much does it cost?

Also, is it true that Bentley Brook cannot pay fees online? I went to: Wyndhamvacationresorts.com/FWpayments, and I entered in my contract numbers. I'm not sure if I entered them in correctly because there were leading zeros that I wasn't sure were to be included or not, but anyways, I tried a couple different ways and it said it was not available at this time.


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## vacationhopeful (Jan 25, 2014)

Okay -- here MIGHT be the problem. The original owner converted these Fixed Weeks to Points. The MFs of some small amount of money did NOT get PAID ON TIME during the transfer. Wyndham points sent the notices to the original owner - as the fees were being paid by their member number. You can FIX this but you will be spend MORE quality bonding time with Member Services and/or the resort about what fees were missed (the HOA might be also WHO you talk to).

How do I know this wonderfulness occurs --- it happen to me, too. And yes, with paying the under $200 of unpaid HOA Special Assessment -- I got my points instead of the FW.


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## NTFisher91 (Jan 25, 2014)

So you think both fixed weeks (different original owners) were converted to points? I am so confused.

**Also, why would Wyndham and/or the seller/title company not tell me they were converted to points?


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## Ridewithme38 (Jan 25, 2014)

edited...

I also own a fixed week in Wyndham....Fixed week owners don't really get access to the WVO website, that is mostly for points owners.  I never got a welcome packet either.  While some weeks resorts allow online payment, some don't so that's something you should call your individual resort about, i know i can't make payments through the that website, i have to actually use the US mail to pay them.  Unfortunately, there is no more weeks transfer pool, they got rid of that, we have to use RCI


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## vacationhopeful (Jan 25, 2014)

NTFisher91 said:


> So you think both fixed weeks (different original owners) were converted to points? I am so confused.
> 
> **Also, why would Wyndham and/or the seller/title company not tell me they were converted to points?



When a resort sales office is selling, the converting a fixed week contract might have been the special offer before the owner walked out the door *OR* might have been buy some points, convert the fixed week for $89 and get VIP status.

But it might be a sloppy listing; figuring a float week will sell better than a fixed week.


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## vacationhopeful (Jan 25, 2014)

NTFisher91 said:


> ...
> **Also, why would Wyndham and/or the seller/title company not tell me they were converted to points?



Idiot PCC? When you have been around TUG for a long time, there are scores of owners who NEVER even try to learn anything about their ownership or how to use it.

I have a friend who converted his fixed week (I gave to him) to points and brought more points, has paid him MFs for 3+ years now while I have saved the points into RCI every year and HE still can't decide even with me ASKING HIM almost monthly -- SHOULD we sit down on the computer and reserve you a nice vacation at a Wyndham resort or thru RCI exchange?

I did book him 4+ years ago a 3+ week vacation to 3 different Hawaiian islands for him to go on with his brother -- then 2 weeks before his brother decided not to go. He went by himself (never been to Hawaii) and brought MORE points from the developer. Those, I got him to rescind.

So his plan is, he is going to GIVE me his Wyndham account ..... like I need MORE points.


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## NTFisher91 (Jan 25, 2014)

vacationhopeful said:


> Idiot PCC?



What does PCC stand for?


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## vacationhopeful (Jan 25, 2014)

NTFisher91 said:


> What does PCC stand for?



Postcard company ... they send out post cards inviting current timeshare owners to bring their deed with them to some public meeting place (hotel conference center) as THEY HAVE A BUYER for their week!

Hard sell (wow, that type of selling still exist, NOT) to get rid of your deed by just paying them $3K-8K to transfer ownership to some one else. Many are transfer to a dummy corporate shell (called a Viking ship) and no MFs are paid. However, they do try to sell them on EBAY for $1 (now you know where their inventory generally comes from).


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## capital city (Jan 26, 2014)

You can try and justify your purchase and throw away more money (I'm stubborn so I would too) or you can admit a mistake and get out now. No matter how you slice it your paying too much in m/f every year for the access to weeks or points that you are getting. The earlier you get out the better, move on to a points package with a much lower m/f per point. My m/f is about $4.20 per thousand so when I'm on the beach its man this is nice and we only paid about a $100 a night for a ocean front 2 br condo. With your m/f its man this is nice but is it worth almost $275 a night? Huge difference and every year that sunk money grows.


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## lcml11 (Jan 26, 2014)

capital city said:


> You can try and justify your purchase and throw away more money (I'm stubborn so I would too) or you can admit a mistake and get out now. No matter how you slice it your paying too much in m/f every year for the access to weeks or points that you are getting. The earlier you get out the better, move on to a points package with a much lower m/f per point. My m/f is about $4.20 per thousand so when I'm on the beach its man this is nice and we only paid about a $100 a night for a ocean front 2 br condo. With your m/f its man this is nice but is it worth almost $275 a night? Huge difference and every year that sunk money grows.



With the timeshare rental market the way it is, depending on your long term objectives, renting for the price of a purchase goes one heck of a long way.  Especially if you take into account the interest paid on the loan, if it is borrowed money.  You then get to chose which system the rental would be in.  Heck, maybe even one of Shell Vacation Club's then you can tell us if it worth the rental price or not.


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## NTFisher91 (Jan 27, 2014)

Ok, so I just got off of the phone with Wyndham. Good news and bad news.

Good news is there was a misrepresentation in the eBay listing in my favor. The listing said it was a studio, and Wyndham told me it is a 1-bedroom. I said, "Are you sure? The listing said it was a studio." And she confirmed it is a 1-bedroom. Hooray!

More good news - I was able to book one of the weeks - fully transferred to me, no balance due.

Bad news - the "studio" that is actually a 1-bedroom is in delinquent status. They weren't even sure how it transferred to me since the maintenance fees were behind. $801.57 was due on October 1, 2013. According to my purchase agreement, it specifically says the seller is responsible for the 2014 maintenance fees. SO - theoretically, I don't have to pay them. I just hope the seller ("Project Philanthropy"/"Donate for a Cause") ponies up the payment they owe. The Wyndham lady is supposed to notate on my account that the delinquent status is "not my fault," which is supposed to make it so I can at least access the account online (since it's currently inactive because of the balance).

**UPDATE: I contacted the escrow company, they said they did pay the 2014 maintenance fees, and emailed me a copy of the canceled check. So I've emailed that to Wyndham and should hopefully get an update.


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## irishclover59 (Sep 24, 2017)

ronparise said:


> These are not dumb questions, but to answer them you need a history lesson (the history of Wyndham) and you also need some insight into the history and development of timeshares. Ie you need to know what a fixed week is and a floating week and points. and you need to know all these and more are available in the Wyndham system
> 
> The wyndam system grew out of a company called Fairfield, and over the years Wyndham (and Cendant before them) grew the system by buying other smaller systems (Equivest, Pahio) and by building their own resorts. (Bonnet Creek, National Harbor and others)
> 
> ...



Great advice for someone new to the world of timeshares.  Thank you so much for taking the time to explain this!  Extremely insighful and helpful.


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