# Question: Best Rewards Card Strategy?



## feckman (Mar 1, 2013)

This morning's thread on the Chase Southwest Visa 50,000 bonus point promotion got me thinking about how and where we travel and how we get earn points to get there.

About us: I own my own business, and I use business expenses to earn miles.  My wife and I each have Chase Southwest Premier cards (separate accounts), and I just signed up for a Chase Southwest Business Premier card this morning to get an additional 50K points.  We also have a Capital One Venture card.  We do not carry any balances.

We generally fly domestically, but we are planning trips to Vancouver and hopefully Europe in the next few years.  We also travel to Hawaii annually.  We have a pending deal on a WKORV 2BR annual and we're looking to add a ski-season annual unit in Breckenridge or Park City soon.  We try to travel 4 weeks a year -- 3 family trips (centered around the school calendar) and 1 couple-only week.  We usually drive for one family trip and fly for the rest.

Currently, I put all possible business expenses on my Southwest Premier card which puts us well over the annual spending threshold to receive the Companion Pass.  We spend around $200K a year on this card.  This is not enough to earn two companion passes by splitting purchases between two cards, but it has been more than enough to cover all travel expenses for me, my wife and our two kids when we travel places that Southwest flies.

We used to use my wife's Southwest Visa for all of our personal household expenses, but we have since stopped using that card since we earn enough points from the business already.  We now use the Venture Card for all of our personal spending.  We put everything we can on this card.  We have been accruing points on that card for the past year or so and have around 150,000 points saved up including the signup bonus.  We're planning to use them starting this year.

All that said, I'm looking for advice on whether our strategy is sound or if we could be maximizing our earning in some other way?  The Companion Pass seems like a good deal, but I'm not sure how it rates compared to other options?  I have thought about splitting the business spending between the Southwest Visa and another card to earn points to fly to Hawaii, but I'm not even sure where to start looking.  And given the scuttlebutt about Southwest adding Hawaii routes in the near future, we've been stockpiling Rapid Rewards points with high hopes that it happens.

Otherwise, we need to keep personal and business spending separate, so we can't use personal spending to bolster business spending to get us over the threshold for two Companion Passes.  I've thought about it, but I don't think it's worth the accounting headache it would cause.

Sorry for the long-winded post, but we've gotten such good advice on our timeshare purchases that I'd really love some input on this subject from fellow TUGgers who have far more travel and saving experience and skill than we do.

Thanks in advance!


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## elaine (Mar 1, 2013)

I can speak re. AA citibank. 10 years ago, we chose AA b/c we live on East Coast and thought we would use for CA, HAwaii and CArib. It has worked great for us--many trips. We have also used AA miles for Europe 4X. IF you can easily drive to or connect via JFK, then AA works well for Europe, not so much for us in DC, as we have to connect in JFK, but we make it work. There are a lot of seats available at the 11 month mark--both to Hawaii and Europe. We have 5 persons flying and have always gotten seats at 11 months out.
With that said, if you plan less than 10-11 months out, I think United has more availability--certainly to/from Europe this summer. Also, if you fly on AA you don't pay high taxes, but if you fly on partner BA, you pay a lot in taxes. Overall, we have used 1 million+ AA miles successfully to Hawaii, Europe, Carib., many times with 5 seats.
Our next card will be United, as they have a base in DC and currently allow a free stopover in Europe with a RT ticket. AA only allows a stopover in the N. American gateway city to Europe. Both U and AA allow one ways--which is a great benefit, IMHO.
Lastly, AA was very decent to us last summer when we had a death of a relative on the day of our flight and they put all miles back into our accounts with out charge--miles were on 4 tickets--so it would have been $600+ in fees.


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## Ken555 (Mar 1, 2013)

I've found that I get more value out of the Starwood American Express than airline cards. The cost of the hotel is usually more than the corresponding miles needed for a free flight, and availability at hotels seems to be much easier than flights. That said, I also have the BA, Delta and AA credit cards tho I only use the BA for more than a few dollars. Since I got the BA card last year I've had great results with reserving AA flights to Hawaii (and all online, so it's saved me a lot of time and effort compared to others - I've previously been moving StarPoints to US Air miles when the 50% bonus is available and then calling US Air to fly on United to Hawaii, which usually takes at least an hour of time). 

If you stay at hotels at all on a regular basis, you may also find a hotel cc to be more valuable to you as well. Obviously, we all stay at timeshares but there are many times we don't. For instance, I'll be at the Westin Whistler very soon for a five night stay on points that I likely wouldn't have paid for since it tends to be expensive this time of year.


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## x3 skier (Mar 1, 2013)

*The Points Guy*

The best advice I have found re Credit Cards and Miles/Points is www.thepointsguy.com

Lots of good advice and strategies to maximize points/miles.

Cheer


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## akp (Mar 2, 2013)

*My 2 cents*

I wrote a long blog post about this, but wanted to give a brief note here.

But first I have to say that  I envy you, because that 200k in business spend is going to keep you in free travel for a long time to come 

If you're traveling domestically a couple of times a year and fly Southwest, I'd keep getting the companion pass.  But I'd only get it every other year, as early in the year as possible, since it is good for 2 years.  

Then get other rewards cards with good bonuses to use for the rest of your personal and business spend.  

I'm a big fan of the Chase Business cards and of the Ultimate Rewards currency they earn.  

Anita


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## feckman (Mar 9, 2013)

*Many thanks to Anita!*

I just wanted to update this thread to publicly thank Anita for her help and to summarize how I made out -- and boy did I make out! -- with her advice.

Basically, I looked at all the available CC offers from her outstanding blog post (http://www.weeksplusmiles.com/2013/03/02/rewards-for-business-spending-can-help-you-fly-free/) and all the offers available on The Points Guy's website and went on a credit app bender. Here's what I got:


Southwest Rapid Rewards Premier for my business (50,000 bonus)
Southwest Rapid Rewards Premier for my wife's business (50,000 bonus)
American Express Business Gold Rewards for my business (75,000 bonus)
American Express Business Gold Rewards for my wife's business (75,000 bonus)
Chase Ink Bold Business for my business (50,000 bonus)
Chase Ink Bold Business for my wife's business (50,000 bonus)
American Express Premier Rewards Gold for me (50,000 bonus)
American Express Premier Rewards Gold for my wife (50,000 bonus)

That's a total of nearly 575,000 points after a $36,000 spend which we'll be able to do without any trouble at all in less than three months! That's not including the companion pass and 300,000 Rapid Rewards points we already have. That's also not including the strategic bonus points we'll get for things like shipping (we do nearly $50,000 a year with FedEx alone), gas, internet, travel, etc.

I'm definitely a little concerned with four dings each on our credit reports, but the benefits seemed to greatly outweigh the risks, and luckily we weren't turned down for anything.

I have no idea what all this means in terms of actual travel yet, but it seems like upwards of a million points between three programs can't be a bad thing...   I'm very excited to learn more about how to build and spend points, and I can't thank Anita enough for taking her time to give me some additional perspective on the process and developing a strategy for maximizing the benefits of spending we were going to do anyway.  I'd highly recommend her blog to all TUGgers (especially since it specifically relates to those of us who own timeshares).

Cheers!

--Jim.


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## akp (Mar 9, 2013)

*You did great!*

I love that you'll have Chase Ultimate Rewards points and Amex Membership Rewards points because you have so much flexibility!

Based on my personal experience and what I've read, your credit scores may each drop 3-5 pts per application (so 12-20 total), but the impact will only last about 3 months.  After 3 months, it will rebound or probably even go up.  And anything above a credit score of 750 is really just bragging rights...750 gets you the best loan deals, credit card offers, etc.

Thanks again - this was fun and your post made my day!

Anita


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## Dori (Mar 9, 2013)

Wow! Congratulations on your churning success! Now, go and use some of those airline points to travel somewhere really nice!

Dori


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## Sandy VDH (Mar 9, 2013)

I am doing some CC churn as well.  The business cards are not suppose to impact your personal credit score, but I think the inquire does come under your name even if the credit line does not.

I use UA so I have been sticking to Chase products and staying at Hilton lately so focused on a HHonors card.

I don't fly SW at all, and don't have a need for the free companion pass, otherwise I think that SW would be a good option for US centric flying.

90 % of my flights are international.  I have about 335K on UA and I only started earning about a 1.5 years ago.  I also have 250K on UR (ultimate rewards).  I have also used 140K in the last 12 months as well.

My next few apps are going to likely be where I currently do not have cards, and in my business name. 

It is easy to rack up points.  But you MUST pay off the full balance due each month or it is not worth it.  And you must be able to hit the spend targets.  The Chase Ink spend was 10K in 3 months.  Not a problem for me, but it could be for some.  It sound like you have that under control, but it is a warning to others who are considering this.


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## akp (Mar 9, 2013)

*Amex MR now work for United*

Hi, Sandy,

You don't have to limit yourself to Chase products for UA flights anymore! 

All Nippon Airlines, an AMEX Membership rewards transfer partner and a member of Star Alliance, is no longer imposing fuel surcharges on AU flights. 

So you can add some AMEX MR earning cards into your next round of applications and they'll contribute to your travel goals on United!  (You always could use ANA miles to book on United, but the fuel surcharges made it impractical.)

http://www.weeksplusmiles.com/2013/03/07/use-american-express-membership-rewards-to-fly-united/

Anita


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## MichaelColey (Mar 9, 2013)

You can definately make out well churning.  I churned Citi AA cards for a couple years, when they didn't have any restrictions on it, and got hundreds of thousands of AA miles.  We love using AA miles for flights to Hawaii.  At little as 35k miles RT off peak, or 75k miles in First.  On our next trip, we're actually flying coach off-peak, then First to Orlando, so 55k miles each and we get two back to back trips out of it (Hawaii and Orlando) with FC on the longest part (Hawaii to Orlando).  We'll either use National free night certificates for a 2 day one way drive home, or AA miles to fly home.  Waiting to get the timeshare in Orlando before we book that.

For annual spend (and we spend that much or more for business, too), my preferred card is the Starwood AmEx (you can transfer 20k to get 25k AA miles!) but I also throw $40k onto my Hilton Surpass Amex to earn Diamond status.  I stay in a lot of Hiltons (but not enough to earn Diamond the hard way).

I have a bunch of other cards that I use, too, but mostly unique to my circumstances.  For instance, I had the AA World Elite Mastercard ($450 per year) and switched a lot of spending that way because they grandfathered the card so that miles earned on it counted towards lifetime status on AA for a period of time.  That helped me get to 2MM lifetime miles and Lifetime Platinum status.  (Just hope that stays through the merger!)

I generally like hotel cards better than airline ones, because they're more flexible and a better deal.  I like they better than the standard AmEx's Membership Rewards, too, primarily because AA isn't an option there and that's my primary airline.


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## akp (Mar 9, 2013)

Michael,

Do you also have the BankDirect savings account?  That is a huge AA mile producing machine.  You must have substantial cash available to take advantage of it, especially now that they're imposing the $12 a month fee.

But with $200k on deposit, you earn 20,000 AA miles _per month_; 240,000 AA miles per year, tax free, for $144 plus the interest forgone.

Total cost calculation depends on your tax bracket, but for someone in a 25% tax bracket, you'd essentially be paying $1641 for 240,000 AA miles.

That's 3 of your round-trip First tickets to Hawaii; you'd be hard pressed to get those for $550 each 

If anyone is interested in a referral to Bank Direct, PM me.  If I refer you, both of us would get a bonus of 1,000 I think.

Anita


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## pointsjunkie (Mar 9, 2013)

besides card churning, there is many ways to enhance your balances. on each airline site there is a mall, i do all my shopping through the airline malls. i will go to the store and try on the item i want and then order it through the airline mall and get points for it. just bought $500 worth of spafinder gift cards at 15 miles per $ and will get 7500 points. order flowers through the sites, many times it ranges from 25 to 40 points per $. magazines average 20-25 miles per $. i use any credit card i want to pay for it so i am double dipping.

this has worked very well for me, as well as card churning and any promotion that comes up.


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## akp (Mar 9, 2013)

MichaelColey said:


> I like they better than the standard AmEx's Membership Rewards, too, primarily because AA isn't an option there and that's my primary airline.



Michael,

Have you looked into transferring Amex Membership Rewards to Cathay Pacific to redeem for AA flights?  I don't know what their fees or fuel surcharges are, and the Cathay Pacific Asia Miles site is a little tricky.  

Like Amex MR's other Oneworld partner, British Airways, Asia Miles has a distance based award chart.  For example, DFW - HNL is 45,000 Asia Miles (with the actual flight on American).  

I'm trying to figure out the fees myself to use up some Asia Miles I earned kind of accidentally, so I'll post back or blog about it once I figure it out.

Anita


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## akp (Mar 9, 2013)

*Good point!*



pointsjunkie said:


> besides card churning, there is many ways to enhance your balances. on each airline site there is a mall, i do all my shopping through the airline malls. i will go to the store and try on the item i want and then order it through the airline mall and get points for it. just bought $500 worth of spafinder gift cards at 15 miles per $ and will get 7500 points. order flowers through the sites, many times it ranges from 25 to 40 points per $. magazines average 20-25 miles per $. i use any credit card i want to pay for it so i am double dipping.
> 
> this has worked very well for me, as well as card churning and any promotion that comes up.



Absolutely!

I buy as much as possible online, and I NEVER buy anything online without using a points, miles, or cash back portal.

Last year, I earned 21 Chase Ultimate Rewards points per dollar for a new mattress, new refrigerator, and new dryer - all together about $3500. 

From my credit card alone (ie, shopping in the store, or shopping online without using a portal), I would have earned only 3500 miles.  But by shopping at the Chase Ultimate Rewards Mall (and taking advantage of a good trick!), I got an additional 20x per dollar.

Anita


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## feckman (Mar 9, 2013)

Here's a question: is it a good idea to sign up for frequent flyer programs on all the major airlines now?  I'm currently only a Rapid Rewards member since we usually fly Southwest out of Albany, but we're close enough to NYC or Boston that we can easily hop a train and catch flights out of JFK, LaGuardia, Newark, Logan, etc.

I also see that there are some creative ways to funnel points through alliance airlines to get points where you need them to be -- are there other airlines that should be on the list to register?

Finally, do I need to link the rewards accounts to frequent flyer accounts somehow?

Thanks much!


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## akp (Mar 9, 2013)

*Yes!*



feckman said:


> Here's a question: is it a good idea to sign up for frequent flyer programs on all the major airlines now?  I'm currently only a Rapid Rewards member since we usually fly Southwest out of Albany, but we're close enough to NYC or Boston that we can easily hop a train and catch flights out of JFK, LaGuardia, Newark, Logan, etc.
> 
> I also see that there are some creative ways to funnel points through alliance airlines to get points where you need them to be -- are there other airlines that should be on the list to register?
> 
> ...



Yes, sign up for FF mile accounts.  You'll start out thinking it will just be AA, UA, and Delta...then pretty soon you'll have accounts for All Nippon Airlines and Korean Air!  (Sign up for Award Wallet also; it is a great way to track balances AND keep track of all the sign-in information.  See my Start Here posts on the blog). 

Earlier this week, I had a link on my blog to MileValue's post about alliances.  (I'm not trying to recreate the wheel; so much good stuff has already been written!  I'm really just trying to highlight some of the great stuff out there for TUGgers.)

Amex Membership Rewards needs to be linked to your FF accounts.  Chase does not; you just enter your account numbers.  Starwood, I don't think needs to be linked.  Who knows for sure?  

Anita


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## MichaelColey (Mar 10, 2013)

I'll have to differ on that.  Most reward programs will zero out your balance if you don't have activity in a certain period of time (like 12, 18 or 24 months).  It's hard to keep a lot of plates spinning.

Plus, when you spread your "loyalty" around, you're not going to have enough in any one place to get elite status.  Status is what makes the loyalty programs good, and that usually takes 25k airline miles (and usually only flight miles count), 10-25 hotel nights, etc.

Pick the programs that work best for you and work to maximize their value.


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## akp (Mar 10, 2013)

MichaelColey said:


> I'll have to differ on that.  Most reward programs will zero out your balance if you don't have activity in a certain period of time (like 12, 18 or 24 months).  It's hard to keep a lot of plates spinning.
> 
> Plus, when you spread your "loyalty" around, you're not going to have enough in any one place to get elite status.  Status is what makes the loyalty programs good, and that usually takes 25k airline miles (and usually only flight miles count), 10-25 hotel nights, etc.
> 
> Pick the programs that work best for you and work to maximize their value.



I probably should have been clearer in my comment about signing up for a lot of airline loyalty programs.  That really had more to do with tricks and strategies, not so much with accumulating miles and flying ANA or Korean Air.  ANA has a great award search tool which is only usable if you have an account with points in it, for example.

I disagree that elite status is important a goal to most of us timesharers who don't fly a lot for work.   

You have to fly on revenue tickets a lot to play the airline elite status game.  (Delta is the only one I know of where you can make a huge dent in elite status through spend.)  I fly 4-5 times a year and always on award tickets, so I'm not getting anywhere with status 

Points expiring should never be an issue except in rare cases where points have a hard expiration date (such as Cathay Pacific Asia Miles).  It is a very trivial thing with nearly all mainstream points and miles programs to keep the points active.   Buy a $.99 song on iTunes through the airline or hotel's online shopping mall, for example.  (Award wallet is great in this regard as it alerts you to expiring points or certificates.)

I completely agree with you about figuring out what program meets your goal and maximizing that, just not on elite status. 

Anita


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## benyu2010 (Mar 11, 2013)

akp said:


> From my credit card alone (ie, shopping in the store, or shopping online without using a portal), I would have earned only 3500 miles.  But by shopping at the Chase Ultimate Rewards Mall (and taking advantage of a good trick!), I got an additional 20x per dollar.
> 
> Anita



Do you mind to share the 'trick'? or could you pm it...Thanks

Chase freedom is one of my first credit cards and I used to put everything on it...Well, I swtiched to Fidelity Amex later on, which gives a straight 2% cash rebate, redeemable any amount anytime...


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## akp (Mar 11, 2013)

*Benyu*

I'm a big fan of the Fidelity AMEX 2%, also.  

My recommended strategy for the average TUG member (i.e., only mildly obsessed with travel, not insanely obsessed) is to get a new credit card or two every year for the big bonuses; as soon as you've hit the spend on those, put them away and switch back to your Fidelity AMEX.

For the insanely obsessed, I'd add in a few optimizing strategies 

As for the "trick", you go through malls twice:  once to purchase gift cards, and again to make the purchase.  Back in August, when I did it, it was possible to get points from the UR Mall buying Sears egift certificates.  It is more complicated now; you have to buy physical gift cards to get the points or miles on the first round.  

A variation on this theme is to buy the gift cards somewhere at a discount (i.e., a scrip gift card fundraiser, or an online clearing house such as carpool), then shop through the merchant.  You get cash back or a discount on the gift card purchase, and points for the merchant purchase. 

FrequentMiler is the king of earning points, miles and cash back through online shopping, though he's on the extreme end of points-and-miles obsessed.  I personally only do (and pass on to others), the relatively simple and high yield strategies.  FM will work all day long for a few extra miles 

Anita


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## benyu2010 (Mar 12, 2013)

Thanks, Anita

I'm doing exactly the same since I got my Fidelity Amex.

That UR Mall GC is really a good idea.

I found shop discount GC is not hassle free and come with great riskes...And going extreme for a few extra miles is not really justified. After all, we do not make a living by spending...


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## akp (Mar 12, 2013)

*Agreed!*



benyu2010 said:


> I found shop discount GC is not hassle free and come with great riskes...And going extreme for a few extra miles is not really justified. After all, we do not make a living by spending...



Totally agree!  

There is a good reason why companies push gift cards so hard; they make a lot of money of them due to what they call breakage.

On a big ticket item such as my mattress, it is worth the extra steps and hassle; for routine things, not for me!

I think some people get so caught up in the game of earning points and miles that they do some of these things for the thrill of it, and end up being points-wise but cash-stupid.

Anita


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## post-it (Mar 13, 2013)

akp said:


> As for the "trick", you go through malls twice:  once to purchase gift cards, and again to make the purchase.  Back in August, when I did it, it was possible to get points from the UR Mall buying Sears egift certificates.  It is more complicated now; you have to buy physical gift cards to get the points or miles on the first round.
> 
> 
> Anita



Anita I use the UR mall all the time but was under the impression you didn't earn bonus mall points for buying gift cards from the merchant site.  For the item purchase, don't you have to use the Chase card itself to purchase not a gift card to earn points?

I hoping to purchase a new dryer from Lowes next month since its part of the 5% bonus so I'm wondering if I should purchase a gift card from Lowes on the mall site 1st and then use that card for the purchase.

Thanks - Love your website by the way


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## akp (Mar 13, 2013)

post-it said:


> Anita I use the UR mall all the time but was under the impression you didn't earn bonus mall points for buying gift cards from the merchant site.



This varies merchant by merchant, and mall by mall.  There are three things going on here:

1) Can I get points / miles / etc. for buying a gift card through a mall?

Yes, but not always.  If it is a large purchase, you should do some research first to see what results people are currently getting.  Frequent Miler is the best source for this information.

2) Can I get points at the UR Mall when I pay with something other than a Chase card?

Yes, but in my recent experience, it is not worth the risk.  If it is a large purchase made through the Chase UR Mall, I always use my Chase card.  

3) Can I get points at an online mall for paying with a gift card.

In my experience, you always get miles when purchasing with a gift card at an airline mall (ie, American, US Airways, etc.).  Chase UR Mall is hit or miss. Back when I bought all my expensive stuff at sears (refrigerator, mattress etc.), there were many reliable reports that they were giving bonuses on both the gift card purchase and the merchandise purchase. 

If I were making major purchases now, I'd research before making the purchase that way. It appeared in the fall that they were tightening up on awarding bonus points on gift card purchases.   I'd start my research in Frequent Miler's Lab and in the comments on his site. 

Anita

PS -  Thanks for the kind words about the website!  It's been so fun!


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