# Pulling kids out of school for timeshare trips



## RBERR1 (Jun 10, 2015)

One of my weeks is a gold Barony week. We have had great vacations in May there and we pulled the kids out of school and said no biggie to miss a week.

As the kids are getting older, I keep going through my mind is at what point is "no biggie to miss a week" is no longer necessarily the best answer .  I know it is different for everyone and there is no "right answer" but I am curious how my fellow Tuggers have dealt with this.

Rich


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## DeniseM (Jun 10, 2015)

It really depends on the school district, but because of attendance laws, most schools will no longer excuse absences for vacations, and some may not provide make up work.  Some may give them unexcused absences, which can impact all kinds of things like grades, citizenship grades, and eligibility for sports and activities.

As your children get older, May might be a difficult time to take them out of school, because it's right before the end of the year, when teachers are reviewing for final exams, and when end of the year projects are due.  

You should check with your school to see if they will permit short-term independent study for one week, because the student is guaranteed make up work, and their absences will be excused, if they are on Ind. Study.


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## SueDonJ (Jun 10, 2015)

While our kids were school-aged we didn't vacation nearly as often as we do now, and only pulled them out twice.  Once when they were in 2nd and 3rd grades for a two-week trip to Florida which included one school vacation week, and the other when they were in 10th and 11th grades for a Disney World visit with an extended family group of 23.

Each time I cleared it in advance with their schools/teachers, knowing that they weren't under any obligation to provide extra help or time with make-up work.  The elementary teachers were very helpful and put together packages that the kids worked on for at least an hour every day.  The high school teachers were not as helpful but they did allow make-up work to be submitted within three days of our return.

So for us it worked but it wasn't an annual routine.  I don't think we would have been comfortable doing it every year even if we could have, especially as the older they got the more work - and sports obligitations - they would have had to miss.

_[I'm moving this to the Lounge forum for exposure.  Knowing that this topic leads to contentious discussions on other travel boards, I'm also including a warning to participants to please remember the TUG Posting Rules about lecturing other posters.  ]_


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## LUVourMarriotts (Jun 10, 2015)

We planned a Thanksgiving cruise this year.  We planned it back in January.  At that time, next years school calendar showed that Wednesday of that week would be a day off.  However, the official calendar for next school year was just released and Wednesday is NOT a day off.  So, now my daughter will miss 3 days instead of 2.  That was ALMOST a showstopper for my wife.  We were very close to canceling the entire vacation, per my wife.  I talked her into keeping the vacation.

My daughter will be in 1st grade next school year.

As was stated, this is a personal decision, based on the child, the teachers willingness to work with you, and the schools rules on this.  We already received confirmation that we can get some homework to bring along with us, from the school.  She's in kindergarten there this year.


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## cp73 (Jun 10, 2015)

Good question Rich.

We never pulled our three daughters out of school for vacations. Our thought was if we pulled them out for vacations would that impact their thinking on how important attending school is. If we blew it off, so would they. Whatever we did it worked out perfectly. All three girls went on to college and earn degrees and have successful careers. We still were able to have plenty of great vacations.


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## DeniseM (Jun 10, 2015)

SueDonJ said:


> _[I'm moving this to the Lounge forum for exposure.  Knowing that this topic leads to contentious discussions on other travel boards, I'm also including a warning to participants to please remember the TUG Posting Rules about lecturing other posters.  ]_



Just to add on to what Sue said, please be aware that attendance rules are mandated by state law.  School districts, administrators, and teachers have to follow the attendance laws in their state, so it's not a matter of what they "want" to do to accommodate students.  Attendance is audited by the state, because funding is directly based on attendance, and a school that is not following the law is in big, big trouble, and may lose significant funding.


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## CO skier (Jun 10, 2015)

RBERR1 said:


> One of my weeks is a gold Barony week. We have had great vacations in May there and we pulled the kids out of school and said no biggie to miss a week.
> 
> As the kids are getting older, I keep going through my mind is at what point is "no biggie to miss a week" is no longer necessarily the best answer .  I know it is different for everyone and there is no "right answer" but I am curious how my fellow Tuggers have dealt with this.
> 
> Rich


For us the answer was, "As soon as the oldest entered 1st grade."

We gave away our shoulder season floating week timeshare and bought into points-based timeshares that allow us to tailor our vacation to the school calendar.

If you do not want to part with your off-season timeshare, you could join Interval International, put in an ongoing search (more than a year in advance for best selection) for the resorts and timeframes that work for you, and exchange into the school vacation times.


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## sue1947 (Jun 10, 2015)

As a former teacher, I can tell you that while they can make up the assignments, they can never make up the missed discussions or explanations.  Sometimes it's hearing the mistake/confusion of others that clarifies things.

However, the main reason not to do it is the message you send.  You may tell your children that school/education is important but your actions are telling them the complete opposite.   Kids learn more from what you do than what you say.  You are also training them for work habits and that learning starts in school.  Will they blow off a big assignment at their future work because their vacation comes first?  It's part of the training in a work ethic.  

Sue


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## spaulino (Jun 10, 2015)

I know what you mean.. When my kids were younger (maybe when less than 7 yo), I think it was no big deal for them to miss a couple or few days of school if we do decide to go on a vacation which we did once for a week to go to HI and take advantage that month's cheaper airfare... But as they get older, they themselves don't want to miss school that many days because 1st - they said it's hard to miss things at school i.e. discussions, classwork etc, and hard to make up, 2nd - they dont really want to spend the vacation doing homework because they do have to take homework and classwork that they will be missing with them to not get too much behind. As they get older, it's harder to miss school for that many days. That's why I chose "floating" for the TS that we got. 

As kids get older, vacations get more expensive because there's no other choice but going in the summer or spring break... where airfares are super high!


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## lizap (Jun 10, 2015)

We never took our daughter out of school for a vacation. Not an appropriate reason to miss school, IMO.


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## WinniWoman (Jun 10, 2015)

We didn't want to take our son out of school, so we vacationed during school holiday weeks or in the summer- went to tons of places. Also, he had a lot of pride in those "Perfect Attendance" Certificates.


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## b2bailey (Jun 10, 2015)

At this point the responses clearly seem in favor of keeping the child in school. I'm a 'Grandma' who feels differently. I won't say any more than that except that I find it incomprehensible that a parent would consider cancelling a cruise vacation planned for the sake of a child in first grade.


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## cp73 (Jun 10, 2015)

b2bailey said:


> At this point the responses clearly seem in favor of keeping the child in school. I'm a 'Grandma' who feels differently. I won't say any more than that except that I find it incomprehensible that a parent would consider cancelling a cruise vacation planned for the sake of a child in first grade.



But they shouldn't have booked it in that time frame to begin with. There are plenty of cruises in the summer.


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## lizap (Jun 10, 2015)

Completely agree..




cp73 said:


> But they shouldn't have booked it in that time frame to begin with. There are plenty of cruises in the summer.


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## SueDonJ (Jun 10, 2015)

DeniseM said:


> Just to add on to what Sue said, please be aware that attendance rules are mandated by state law.  School districts, administrators, and teachers have to follow the attendance laws in their state, so it's not a matter of what they "want" to do to accommodate students.  Attendance is audited by the state, because funding is directly based on attendance, and a school that is not following the law is in big, big trouble, and may lose significant funding.



That's true, these days the attendance rules (including here in Massachusetts) are much stricter than they were back when we pulled the kids out a couple times.  We wouldn't have done what we'd done if today's rules were in place then.


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## ilene13 (Jun 10, 2015)

As a parent, grandparent and former high school teacher and then assistant principal I truly believe that it is ok for a day or two but not for extended vacations.  We travelled extensively when our children were in school and we always were within the school break timeframe.  Of course I too had to follow the school holidays.  The only exception that we made was when our sons were in high school we took a trip to England and Italy that encompassed their spring break but they had to miss 4 days of school.  Today my son won't even pull his son out of day camp!


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## lizap (Jun 10, 2015)

My mother was a school principal for 25+ years; I can never recall being taken out of school to go on a vacation.  Vacations were planned around the school schedule..


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## uscav8r (Jun 10, 2015)

Let me provide a counterpoint to all the sentiment that it is a poor choice to take kids out of school for a vacation, which is already an overly broad blanket statement.

To this I say, it depends. The reason some people may need to travel on a school week is due to cost. If the vacation is just "fun" at Disneyland or a cruise, perhaps that might not be a great reason, but if it is the one time that family is going to be able to afford it, so be it.

I would be more supportive of a vacation that, itself, had educational or experiential value beyond what one might find in school. An international trip offers unequaled cultural exposure that you simply cannot get from a textbook. A trip to a unique natural wonder, say Alaska, a National Park, the Serengeti, etc., also provides an appreciation for the world in which we live, again something that cannot be appreciated simply by reading a textbook. Properly informing the kids of the value of the trip and the importance of school is needed to ensure they understand balance in life.

Even these types of trips should not be an annual/frequent occurrence, but please do not denigrate the family who must balance the value of such choices on the rare occasion. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## DeniseM (Jun 10, 2015)

Chris - Absolutely valid point - but what if your child's school won't excuse them due to state law?  Not a big deal with early elementary, but a very big deal in high school.


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## uscav8r (Jun 10, 2015)

School rules allow for a set amount of absences, excused or otherwise. Some places have more leeway than others, then there is private vs. public implementation. BTW, I am not advocating anyone flaunt any limitations, but some folks seem to say even approaching the limit is "improper."

ETA: I don't have HS aged kids, so I don't know how restrictive those may be.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## mark201235 (Jun 10, 2015)

cp73 said:


> But they shouldn't have booked it in that time frame to begin with. There are plenty of cruises in the summer.



Completely disagree. We have taken our 3 daughters out of school every year for a week from first grade on (5 approved educational journey days each year in our school district). Always have done this during off times, whether cruises or Disney or all-inclusives. Much, much cheaper and less crowds. We have always added an educational component to each trip. They usually have completed their missing assignments on the airplane each way. Sometimes worked on it while on vacation. Oldest just graduated college with a BS in Chemistry and is entering a PhD program in August. Middle is in her junior year of college and doing great. Youngest will be a senior in high school and has straight A's. In fact, she just asked the other day where we are going next year !!


Just my opinion,

Mark


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## DeniseM (Jun 10, 2015)

uscav8r said:


> School rules allow for a set amount of absences, excused or otherwise.



At least in CA, this is not true.  If a student is absent, it doesn't matter why they are absent -  the school loses funding for that day - period.  

The only exception is if the student goes on short-term Ind. study, AND does the assigned work, AND turns it in immediately upon returning to school.

This really comes down to knowing the attendance laws in your district, understanding the impact on your child, and then weighing the options.


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## Elan (Jun 10, 2015)

DeniseM said:


> This really comes down to *knowing the attendance laws* in your district, *understand the impact* on your child, and then *weighing the options*.



  I don't see any reason to bring rational thought to this topic, when it can so easily be addressed with gross generalizations and far-fetched extrapolations.


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## DeniseM (Jun 10, 2015)

Elan said:


> I don't see any reason to bring rational thought to this topic, when it can so easily be addressed with gross generalizations and far-fetched extrapolations.



OK, but it's the TUG way…..


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## DeniseM (Jun 10, 2015)

True Story - I once had a high school student in my class that was dropped from school, because of a week long trip to Disneyland.  She already had bad attendance, and it was the last straw.


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## myoakley (Jun 10, 2015)

cp73 said:


> Good question Rich.
> 
> We never pulled our three daughters out of school for vacations. Our thought was if we pulled them out for vacations would that impact their thinking on how important attending school is. If we blew it off, so would they. Whatever we did it worked out perfectly. All three girls went on to college and earn degrees and have successful careers. We still were able to have plenty of great vacations.



Agree 100%!  Also, as a retired high school teacher, I know that my colleagues and I certainly did not appreciate parents who took their children out of school to vacation.  Invariably, it always meant extra work for the teachers: preparing assignments for the student to do, giving make-up tests, quizzes, etc.  Also, a conscientious teacher invariably feels a need to catch that student up on missed work, entailing after-school or free period "extra-help" sessions.  I raised 4 children, and I never would have even dreamed of taking them out of school for a vacation.


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## slip (Jun 10, 2015)

We had two people justify each side by saying their child turned out great and
With degrees, I don't thing either taking them out of school or not allowing it 
Had any impact on that outcome. Way too many other factors involved.

I find it hard to believe that me pulling my child out for five days would have a
Noticeable difference in funding either. I suppose there could be a multiplication 
Factor but if I want to take my child out I will. Sports or perfect attendance 
Penalties may apply but it wouldn't have anything to do with them passing or
Not.

I would have no issues taking a child out especially the earlier grades but I
Would leave it up to them as they got older. It does depend on each child but
If there were issues because of maturity or discipline I wouldn't have been
Making plans in the first place. 

Just my opinion.


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## mark201235 (Jun 10, 2015)

DeniseM said:


> True Story - I once had a high school student in my class that was dropped from school, because of a week long trip to Disneyland.  She already had bad attendance, and it was the last straw.



But no doubt she had a great time in Disneyland !!


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## SueDonJ (Jun 10, 2015)

Another major consideration is the particular students' relative ease or difficulty with school.  I believe that if the parents are as involved with their children's education as they should be, then they know best whether missing a few days will hinder the student.  I was very comfortable with my own intuition about my own children in that regard, and seeing them now as productive, responsible adults reinforces it.

But I do realize that one of the reasons this has become such a hot-button issue in the school systems is because not all parents pay attention to that intuition.  It's certainly understandable that rules have had to be made stricter with very little leeway.

Perfect Attendance awards make me bonkers.  If a student goes a full year without being sick and misses no school days, that's certainly something to celebrate.  But passing out awards for it in a public setting only leads to sick children going to school and infecting others.  My kids missed school days because they caught colds/stomach bugs/etc from other kids who had no business being in the classroom!  I kept mine home when they were sick, wish everyone else would have done the same.


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## Elan (Jun 10, 2015)

DeniseM said:


> OK, but it's the TUG way…..



  Seems like this topic comes up every few years.   

  I always love the inference that kids are necessarily going to become delinquent idiotic slackers if they miss a few days of school.  No gray area.  No provisioning for the possibility that not all kids, parents or schools are created equal.  The poor kids are simply doomed to a life of failure because they missed 3 days in 4th grade. :hysterical:


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## lizap (Jun 10, 2015)

School holidays, such as Christmas, Summer, Easter break provide more than enough time that can be used for vacations, IMO. Cost should not be a factor in taking kids out of school when it is in session, again IMO.



mark201235 said:


> Completely disagree. We have taken our 3 daughters out of school every year for a week from first grade on (5 approved educational journey days each year in our school district). Always have done this during off times, whether cruises or Disney or all-inclusives. Much, much cheaper and less crowds. We have always added an educational component to each trip. They usually have completed their missing assignments on the airplane each way. Sometimes worked on it while on vacation. Oldest just graduated college with a BS in Chemistry and is entering a PhD program in August. Middle is in her junior year of college and doing great. Youngest will be a senior in high school and has straight A's. In fact, she just asked the other day where we are going next year !!
> 
> 
> Just my opinion,
> ...


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## MichaelColey (Jun 10, 2015)

One of many reasons we enjoy homeschooling our kids.  We're able to travel whenever we want, and I bet they know geography better than most adults.


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## lizap (Jun 10, 2015)

I don't think anyone used that term.  It's an issue of teaching responsibility, following rules, doing what you're supposed to do, and very importantly not missing school (as a student, I never wanted to miss school for fear of missing something important and getting behind)..




Elan said:


> Seems like this topic comes up every few years.
> 
> I always love the inference that kids are necessarily going to become delinquent idiotic slackers if they miss a few days of school.  No gray area.  No provisioning for the possibility that not all kids, parents or schools are created equal.  The poor kids are simply doomed to a life of failure because they missed 3 days in 4th grade. :hysterical:


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## DeniseM (Jun 10, 2015)

slip said:


> I find it hard to believe that me pulling my child out for five days would have aSports or perfect attendance
> Penalties may apply but it wouldn't have anything to do with them passing or
> Not.



In my district, _5 unexcused_ high school absences can impact many things:

-Eligibility for sports.

-Eligibility for activities, such as participation in the graduation ceremony, Prom, and the Sr. trip.

-Eligibility to have a work permit.

-Eligibility to attend a different school in your Dist.

-Grades - 5 days of unexcused absences can really lower grades if something important is missed.

At the high school level it can have a very real impact - that's why you have to be sure you understand the rules, and your options.

Sure - it's your right as a parent, but you do your child and yourself a dis-service, if you don't know what the consequences will be, and what your options are.

_*If your kids have been out of school for awhile, attendance laws have gotten much stricter, and are probably different than when _your kids were in school.


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## mark201235 (Jun 10, 2015)

lizap said:


> School holidays, such as Christmas, Summer, Easter break provide more than enough time that can be used for vacations, IMO. Cost should not be a factor in taking kids out of school when it is in session, again IMO.



Gee, wait in line for 10 mins (off season) vs 2 + hrs for a ride at Disney. Pay three times for a hotel room at the beach plus have to step over 20 families to get to a good spot. Pay twice the price for a cruise for prime season ??  I guess we are fortunate that we never had to do any of these. Saved time and $$$ and aggravation over the years and most importantly never had to sacrifice our girls education. Middle daughter met a girl from CT while on our first cruise in 2004. (9 yrs old at the time) They have traveled back and forth to see each other each year since.  That cruise was in October, while school was in session. Wouldn't trade it for anything. Again, everyone has their own opinion on this.

Mark


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## mark201235 (Jun 10, 2015)

Is this school district on Alcatraz ?

Sounds tough.





QUOTE=DeniseM;1767481]In my district, _unexcused_ high school absences can impact many things:

-Eligibility for sports.

-Eligibility for activities, such as participation in the graduation ceremony, Prom, and the Sr. trip.

-Eligibility to have a work permit.

-Eligibility to attend a different school in your Dist.

-Grades - 5 days of unexcused absences can really lower grades if something important is missed.

At the high school level it can have a very real impact - that's why you have to be sure you understand the rules, and your options.

Sure - it's your right as a parent, but you do your child and yourself a dis-service, if you don't know what the consequences will be, and what your options are.[/QUOTE]


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## lizap (Jun 10, 2015)

I honestly don't know how to respond, so I won't except to say we have dramatically different views on this.  I don't think many educators would agree with you..




mark201235 said:


> Gee, wait in line for 10 mins (off season) vs 2 + hrs for a ride at Disney. Pay three times for a hotel room at the beach plus have to step over 20 families to get to a good spot. Pay twice the price for a cruise for prime season ??  I guess we are fortunate that we never had to do any of these. Saved time and $$$ and aggravation over the years and most importantly never had to sacrifice our girls education. Middle daughter met a girl from CT while on our first cruise in 2004. (9 yrs old at the time) They have traveled back and forth to see each other each year since.  That cruise was in October, while school was in session. Wouldn't trade it for anything. Again, everyone has their own opinion on this.
> 
> Mark


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## Mr. Vker (Jun 10, 2015)

We just had our granddaughter in Aruba in May. Missed a week of kindergarten. Was an all day program with classroom instruction-private school. We got permission and took her classwork. 

We are avoiding taking her from class in the future unless the trip has a real educational component. Such as Galapagos, Africa, Europe etc. 

I firmly believe in a strong educational component to travel-including the experience of travel itself. Its been a very important part of our lives for decades.  The quote from St. Augustine below says it all.


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## slip (Jun 10, 2015)

DeniseM said:


> In my district, _5 unexcused_ high school absences can impact many things:
> 
> -Eligibility for sports.
> 
> ...



I agree with what you said. That's why I said I'd have to take whatever penalty 
Was involved but I didn't see anything on your list I'd be concerned with. Again,
This is assuming no other issues with the child and if so i wouldn't be making
Plans to pull them out of school.


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## DeniseM (Jun 10, 2015)

mark201235 said:


> Is this school district on Alcatraz ?
> 
> Sounds tough.



Mark - that's what I'm trying to tell you.  This is a far bigger issue than just exercising your parental rights.  You have to be sure you know what your options are, because the consequences can be severe.  State laws no longer allow schools to look the other way with unexcused absences.


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## grupp (Jun 10, 2015)

We took our kids out of school for a few days almost every year up to High School. We were able to afford better trips by taking them out for a few days than we could have done during the school breaks. Never a problems with our school, but they we given some additional assignments to complete. Those trips were some of the most memorable family time we had while they were growing up.

Once in High School there were just to many conflicts with activities that they probably would not have wanted to go even if we tried to plan something.

My son just graduated last week as the Valedictorian of his class of 600 and was accepted to some of the top universities in the country. So, I guess he survived our poor parenting decisions.


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## mark201235 (Jun 10, 2015)

lizap said:


> I honestly don't know how to respond, so I won't except to say we have dramatically different views on this.  I don't think many educators would agree with you..



Perhaps it's where we each live? My wife's sister (who is the same age as me) and has been teaching at our local elementary school for 20+ years has no problems taking her daughters out of school for a week during the school year. I guess we are low key here in south central PA. Again, we are approved for 5 educational journey days each year.


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## SueDonJ (Jun 10, 2015)

lizap said:


> I don't think anyone used that term.  It's an issue of teaching responsibility, following rules, doing what you're supposed to do, and very importantly not missing school (as a student, I never wanted to miss school for fear of missing something important and getting behind)..



Back when my kids were in school the rules allowed for excused absences, and I did the responsible thing by notifying the schools far in advance of our two-in-sixteen-years trips that required missed school days.  I also didn't like to miss school and our parents never took us out for anything other than sick days, but they taught ethics to me and my siblings in many other ways.

Life is balance and at any single moment one thing may usurp another in importance, which was the case with one of our trips when we put extended family first and had to follow majority rule if we wanted to be included.  Sure it's commendable to legitimately never, ever miss a day whether you're talking about school or work (here again excepting the students' parents and workers who knowingly turn the classroom/work environments into festering petri dishes.)  But I agree with Elan that it's not a character flaw to consider that school and work are not the be-all and end-all of a life correctly lived.


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## lizap (Jun 10, 2015)

Growing up and our family (with our daughter)- we travelled extensively, but we always did it around school schedules.  Most of my daughter's professors in college had a policy that you could not miss an exam unless you were sick, death in the family, etc... Missing for a vacation was an unexcused absence and could result in an F..




Mr. Vker said:


> We just had our granddaughter in Aruba in May. Missed a week of kindergarten. Was an all day program with classroom instruction-private school. We got permission and took her classwork.
> 
> We are avoiding taking her from class in the future unless the trip has a real educational component. Such as Galapagos, Africa, Europe etc.
> 
> I firmly believe in a strong educational component to travel-including the experience of travel itself. Its been a very important part of our lives for decades.  The quote from St. Augustine below says it all.


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## Elan (Jun 10, 2015)

lizap said:


> I don't think anyone used that term.  It's an issue of teaching responsibility, following rules, doing what you're supposed to do, and very importantly not missing school (as a student, I never wanted to miss school for fear of missing something important and getting behind)..



  Of course nobody used that term.  That's why I said "inference".  Regardless, it's quite obvious that there are some gross generalizations and nonsensical extrapolations in this thread.  

   My kids aren't the same as your kids.  My parenting isn't the same as your parenting.  I know my kids better than you do, and you know your kids better than I do.  So me trying to project the impact that a vacation absence would have on my kids on to your kids doesn't really make much logical sense.

  There is one good answer to this question, and DeniseM, SueDonJ, slip and a few others have given it.  That answer is:  Based on *your* knowledge of the rules/guidelines in *your* district, *your* parenting and *your* assessment of the impact that the absence will have on *your* child, use *your* best judgement.


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## mark201235 (Jun 10, 2015)

grupp said:


> We took our kids out of school for a few days almost every year up to High School. We were able to afford better trips by taking them out for a few days than we could have done during the school breaks. Never a problems with our school, but they we given some additional assignments to complete. Those trips were some of the most memorable family time we had while they were growing up.
> 
> Once in High School there were just to many conflicts with activities that they probably would not have wanted to go even if we tried to plan something.
> 
> My son just graduated last week as the Valedictorian of his class of 600 and was accepted to some of the top universities in the country. So, I guess he survived our poor parenting decisions.



You should be ashamed of yourself !!!! Kidding of course.  Congrats on your son as Valedictorian. My oldest was ONLY good enough to finish third in her class (still disappointing to her but certainly not to us). Something that has not been mentioned until you just did is that the trips "were some of the most memorable family time we had while there were growing up." Agreed. 

(Sorry, dont know how to edit partial quotes from previous posts.)

Mark


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## DeniseM (Jun 10, 2015)

Mark - when did your daughter graduate from High School?


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## mark201235 (Jun 10, 2015)

DeniseM said:


> Mark - when did your daughter graduate from High School



She graduated in 2011.


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## Beefnot (Jun 10, 2015)

I would like my kids to have a very strong emphasis on academics above leisure during the school year.  Now that my oldest will be entering second grade, we will likely no longer be pulling them out of school for vacations.  That is, unless some crazy great exchange comes through like Aulani did for us for a January trip.  I am principled, yet also pragmatic.


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## DeniseM (Jun 10, 2015)

mark201235 said:


> She graduated in 2011.



The laws in your state may have changed since then, or maybe PA just has much more liberal attendance laws, than we do here in CA.


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## Beefnot (Jun 10, 2015)

grupp said:


> My son just graduated last week as the Valedictorian of his class of 600 and was accepted to some of the top universities in the country. So, I guess he survived our poor parenting decisions.


 
Whew, good thing you terminated those poor parenting decisions prior to high school, so that your son could become valedictorian.


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## lizap (Jun 10, 2015)

As parents, we make decisions like this for our children.  These decisions can lead to desirable or undesirable outcomes.  You are correct that every child/situation is different, but in, general, with few exceptions, children should not be taken out of school to go on a vacation IMO, since there are close to 3 months they are out of school that can be used for this.   I'm sure there is educational research somewhere that has addressed this issue..



Elan said:


> Of course nobody used that term.  That's why I said "inference".  Regardless, it's quite obvious that there are some gross generalizations and nonsensical extrapolations in this thread.
> 
> My kids aren't the same as your kids.  My parenting isn't the same as your parenting.  I know my kids better than you do, and you know your kids better than I do.  So me trying to project the impact that a vacation absence would have on my kids on to your kids doesn't really make much logical sense.
> 
> There is one good answer to this question, and DeniseM, SueDonJ, slip and a few others have given it.  That answer is:  Based on *your* knowledge of the rules/guidelines in *your* district, *your* parenting and *your* assessment of the impact that the absence will have on *your* child, use *your* best judgement.


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## mark201235 (Jun 10, 2015)

DeniseM said:


> The laws in your state may have changed since then, or maybe PA just has much more liberal attendance laws.



Remember, that was the oldest. I still have the youngest with one year to go in HS.

Same laws in PA. It's a Commonwealth so it's hard to keep up with the laws here !!! 

Quick quiz for TUGGERS, and no cheating. How many Commonwealth States in the USA??


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## DeniseM (Jun 10, 2015)

If anyone is thinking about taking their child(ren) out of school for a vacation, this is what I'd recommend:

Make an Appt. with the administrator at the school who is in charge of attendance, and go talk directly to them.

Find out what your options are, and what the consequences are.

Ask if there is an option to go on short-term independent study, for full credit.

Don't just call and talk to a clerk over the phone, or depend on your child's understanding of the situation, or ask the teacher to handle it on the low-down - get the fact from an administrator.


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## WinniWoman (Jun 10, 2015)

All I can say is this- as it is kids are hardly ever in school. I don't even know how they learn anything with the amount of time they have off. Sick day and snow days on top of all the holidays and school breaks and the summer. Are you kidding me? Then to take them out again for a vacation....hey- if it works for your family- fine. But I couldn't see doing it.


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## uscav8r (Jun 10, 2015)

lizap said:


> I don't think anyone used that term.  It's an issue of teaching responsibility, following rules, doing what you're supposed to do, and very importantly not missing school (as a student, I never wanted to miss school for fear of missing something important and getting behind)..



I have 20+ years in the military. There is not a more rules-based, stay-inside-the-lines-and-follow-orders experience one can get than that, so I can appreciate from where you are coming.

Your are an absolutist w.r.t. school absences and that is perfectly acceptable for you to do with your kids. No one is saying your are wrong. But neither are the reasonable persons with differing views.

Responsibility does not mean following every rule to the t. We are not automatons. It does mean weighing the alternatives of a decision and accepting the consequences of such action. 

The "rules" are general for a reason. There is no way to enumerate and address every case and eventuality. In the end, each of us needs to employ our intellectect and specific knowledge of the situation to make a decision that is good for ourselves and our children. Then use some consideration and politeness to work with the educators so as not to make their life any more difficult than necessary. 

Heck, maybe even have the kids come back and present to the class the culture they just experienced (for instance if the trip was to a foreign land). That provides value to the other kids in class as well.

I'm not saying this sentiment is any better than yours... It's just different.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## PearlCity (Jun 10, 2015)

I pull mine out 1 or 2 days leading in to break or after, only being from Hawaii airfares are much cheaper on Thurs /Monday than on weekends.  That being said usually the day before or after a break they aren't doing much but field trips.. my kids won't allow me to pull them out anymore than that. My 8 yo daughter cried when I even proposed doing that last year after spoke to her teacher and she said it was ok.


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## uscav8r (Jun 10, 2015)

mark201235 said:


> Remember, that was the oldest. I still have the youngest with one year to go in HS.
> 
> Same laws in PA. It's a Commonwealth so it's hard to keep up with the laws here !!!
> 
> Quick quiz for TUGGERS, and no cheating. How many Commonwealth States in the USA??



You mean you think I could be smarter than a 5th Grader? We don't cover such trivia in the Republic... 


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## DeniseM (Jun 10, 2015)

PearlCity said:


> after spoke to her teacher and she said it was ok.



Please be aware that teachers do not have the authority to excuse school absences.


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## Passepartout (Jun 10, 2015)

I agree with Denise that an appointment with the school's administrator would be in order. And I would add that there are 'vacations', and there are 'vacations'. If the purpose of the intended outing is simply to go to a nice beachy location in the season when most families are dutifully in their schools, that's one thing. But if the school outing can be made into a genuine learning experience- an international trip- going somewhere historical- experiencing cultural diversity, then perhaps the child(ren) can actually gain from the experience more than the few days of classroom attendance s/he would miss. If a presentation by the kid(s) to classmates is a requirement, all the better.

Jim


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## klpca (Jun 10, 2015)

Our district changed the school calendar to reduce the number of unexcused absences (anything other than illness) because it cost the district quite a bit of money in lost revenue from the state. Now we get a full week at Thanksgiving and another full week around President's week. Plus the two weeks at Christmas, and a week during the spring.  I'm all about saving money and I think that this is a good policy. With the reduced budgets that our district works with, every penny counts. Unexcused absences reduce the money paid by the state to the school district. 

A day here and there away from school is no big deal. We took our vacations during the summer though because it was right for us. As they got older, it was a moot point. Once they were involved with sports, band, and AP courses, it was even difficult to find a free week during the summer (another contentious issue for another thread, lol).


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## theo (Jun 10, 2015)

mark201235 said:


> <snip> Quick quiz for TUGGERS, and no cheating. How many Commonwealth States in the USA??



I'll go with at least 3 with no research, and I'll even name them ---Virginia, Massachusetts and Pennsylvania.

There might well be others too, but your pop quiz stipulated no cheating.


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## grupp (Jun 10, 2015)

Beefnot said:


> Whew, good thing you terminated those poor parenting decisions prior to high school, so that your son could become valedictorian.



We did miss some days due to college visits, accepted student days and scholarship interviews this year. Actually, probably missed more days than when we took them out for our family trips.  I imagine some will also think that those are not valid reasons to take them out of school.


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## Elan (Jun 10, 2015)

lizap said:


> As parents, we make decisions like this for our children.  These decisions can lead to desirable or undesirable outcomes.  You are correct that every child/situation is different, but in, general, with few exceptions, *my* children should not be taken out of school to go on a vacation IMO, since there are close to 3 months they are out of school that can be used for this.   I'm sure there is educational research somewhere that has addressed this issue..



  Fixed it for you.


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## Talent312 (Jun 10, 2015)

Thinking back to my own childhood, my recollection (such as it is) is that, up until the 3rd grade, we really didn't do much of anything of any real significance - nothing at least that couldn't be easily replicated with a little attention at home. It was in the 3rd grade that they started dishing out the substance -- spelling tests, cursive writing, paper mache, hurricane tracking, duck+cover...

If that serves as any guide, I'd say, up until then, the kid wouldn't miss much.

But as others say, in many places, levels of funding depends on the # of students present each day and they've adopted strict limits of absences that are not medically excused. Obviously, communication with "the principal's office" + teachers is essential.


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## DeniseM (Jun 10, 2015)

Talent312 - Children are now taught reading and math in Kindergarten - the curriculum has really been "pushed down," so that's no longer true.  

However, you're right - absences at the age will be less critical, as long as they aren't absent all the time.

Children in the early grades who have excessive absences often never catch up with their peers, and that has devastating consequences in their later years of education.  Once you miss the optimal window to learn to read, it is very difficult to ever catch up.


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## lizap (Jun 10, 2015)

Denise, thanks for relating the adverse impacts of student absenteeism.  I looked up the research on this, and the adverse impacts of student absenteeism are well documented/researched..




DeniseM said:


> Talent312 - Children are now taught reading and math in Kindergarten - the curriculum has really been "pushed down," so that's no longer true.
> 
> However, you're right - absences at the age will be less critical, as long as they aren't absent all the time.
> 
> Children in the early grades who have excessive absences often never catch up with their peers, and that has devastating consequences in their later years of education.  Once you miss the optimal window to learn to read, it is very difficult to ever catch up.


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## davidvel (Jun 10, 2015)

As Denise mentioned, every state is different. In CA the system is screwy. If your child is absent, the school loses about $50 a day. Yes, if 10 kids are absent in a class, the school loses $500 for that day, but still has all the same expenses. That being said, the CA Education code also specifically funds schools for students traveling 5 days or more that comply with an Independent Study Contract. The student is considered to have attended those days. Our schools participate in ISCs.

I disagree with those that say the expense does not justify the absences. The difference in expense can be enormous. As many have noted, trips can be educational, and rewarding for children, giving them a better world perspective. We had a great trip to Oahu, where my children experienced Pearl Harbor first-hand. A once in a lifetime opportunity for them (and me). No teacher, you-tube video, or textbook could replicate that experience. I believe they are better humans because of that.

My son also saw tsunami debris washing ashore, after he had just studied the Japan earthquake in school. The look on his face when he saw the debris, with Japanese writing, etc. was incredible. Seeing a 5th grader trying to grasp the magnitude of the event, while witnessing pieces of docks and other debris on the beach, could not be duplicated in a classroom.  He took pictures, wrote a lengthy report, and made a presentation to his class upon return.

For many families, they simply could not ever go on trips if they had to travel during school breaks.


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## Elan (Jun 10, 2015)

lizap said:


> Denise, thanks for relating the adverse impacts of student absenteeism.  I looked up the research on this, and the adverse impacts of student absenteeism are well documented/researched..


When you find the research specifically on the effects of vacation related absences, I'd love to see it.  

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk


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## uscav8r (Jun 10, 2015)

Elan said:


> When you find the research specifically on the effects of vacation related absences, I'd love to see it.
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk



I know, right? One site I came across is this:

http://www.childtrends.org/?indicators=student-absenteeism

It specifically cites "chronic absenteeism" which is defined at missing 10% of the scheduled school days. In some data kids are missing 3-4 days per MONTH. 

This thread is discussing maybe 3-5 days in a single year, or maybe 10-14 days over 8-12 years. 

"Chronic" and "occasional/rare" are completely distinct concepts. 


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## Beefnot (Jun 10, 2015)

davidvel said:


> For many families, they simply could not ever *go on trips *if they had to travel during school breaks.


 
Ok now that is not only stretching things, this is patently untrue.  If you want to swap out the highlighted exaggeration with "afford the airfare to fly to exotic destinations", then maybe it would have merit.  Not that flying to exotic destinations while school is in session should be considered anything other than a discretionary luxury.


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## uop1497 (Jun 10, 2015)

I do not take my kids off to go on vacation when they are in school. It seems that I make a good habit for them not to kip school on school day except when they are sick . 

Later, when they are in college, a couple time I ask them if they can miss a couple days if we return from our vacation a little later than our original plan. They both say No Way


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## Passepartout (Jun 10, 2015)

uop1497 said:


> I do not take my kids off to go on vacation when they are in school. It seems that I make* a good habit for them not to skip school* on school day except when they are sick .
> 
> Later, when they are in college, a couple time I ask them if they can miss a couple days if we return from our vacation a little later than our original plan. They both say No Way



I agree that this instills a good school/work/attendance ethic. Good for you, Mom! There will be time later in their lives for travel/vacations if they choose to use their time this way.

Jim


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## davidvel (Jun 10, 2015)

> Originally Posted by davidvel
> For many families, they simply could not ever go on trips if they had to travel during school breaks.





Beefnot said:


> Ok now that is not only stretching things, this is patently untrue.  If you want to swap out the highlighted exaggeration with "afford the airfare to fly to exotic destinations", then maybe it would have merit.  Not that flying to exotic destinations while school is in session should be considered anything other than a discretionary luxury.


How's this:


> My children could not have experienced Pearl Harbor and  the devastation of the Japan earthquake described above if we would have had to travel during school breaks.


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## Beefnot (Jun 10, 2015)

davidvel said:


> How's this:
> 
> 
> 
> > My children could not have experienced Pearl Harbor and the devastation of the Japan earthquake described above if we would have had to travel during school breaks.


 
That's better.  Or how about this:




> My children could not have experienced Pearl Harbor and the devastation of the Japan earthquake described above *at the time that we did without having first saved up more money to go at a later date *if we would have had to travel during school breaks.


 
I'm just busting your chops for the most part.  Hey, I am not going to declare that my Jan Aulani trip is the last time I will pull the kids out of school.  Looking at the disparity in Disney Cruise prices between in-session and out-of-session dates, I have some decisions to make for our 2017 planning.  Either way, If I start my DCL fund now, perhaps it won't be such a difficult decision to make then.


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## laura1957 (Jun 10, 2015)

I have, not often, taken my children out of school for a day or two.  Once, with full cooperation from school administration, for an entire week - I was getting married soon and it was the only time my future husband and I could both get off work.  Visited his family in Georgia and Florida.  

That is something I haven't seen anyone else here mention - some parents/workers are very limited in their vacation plans.  They can't get a summer week, or spring/winter break week.  

One of my grandsons friends goes to Costa Rica for a week every January, has since he was born (7 years) it is the only time he has ever spent with his grandparents.


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## traveldaddy (Jun 10, 2015)

DeniseM said:


> True Story - I once had a high school student in my class that was dropped from school, because of a week long trip to Disneyland.  She already had bad attendance, and it was the last straw.



This seems kinda Mickey Mouse to me, how about you? 





Okay - I am WAYYYY late in the thread. How did this get so much attention/commentary? The thread is the fastest I can recall ever seeing.


My 2 cents is it is very child and situation dependent. We wouldn't plan it for higher grades unless absolutely necessary (family special event - like a wedding/funeral) and would plan to ensure there was no impact to the child's actual education. I skipped a grade in math and know many who skipped entire grades in grade school - you CAN miss a week and be okay. Rules of the school board aside (they should be followed) - I would be thinking about the kid first and foremost - the other things are somewhat noise IMnsHO. 

I was just thinking about planning pulling my kids out for a day next year to see if we can get a 4 day long weekend in at Glacier Canyon......if I can get a reservation. But this is just one day........let the commentary continue!


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## vacationhopeful (Jun 10, 2015)

traveldaddy said:


> ....My 2 cents is it is very child and situation dependent. ......



My nephew travels and behaves better in small groups and usually with me. He has issues and his school attendance is BAD ... even with medications, talk therapy, parental support, etc. He missed 38 days his last year in elementary school. When he moved into Middle School, it all got worse. We talked about something he really wanted - a trip to Ft Lauderdale in July (9 months off) and I went over WHY his parents had veto that trip for 2 prior summers. He agreed to change - "with serious and rigid go to school" rules for the next 3+ months ... and he met them without any meltdowns. 

He did not get the FLL trip --- he got WDW/AKV for a week. And it was a trip neither of his parents ever wanted to take him on again. My sister was speech less when she ask "What are you really planning?" And she told me on the day we flew off, "there is no ride or any other thing he will do at WDW; GOOD LUCK with him!". He was great - he loved it. And I have a picture book to prove it.

But the best part of this is 3+ years later (High School) .... he continues to go to school every day. And with weekly private tutoring (to focus him on  doing the school work), he got his first "A" ever in Principals of Engineering and the next quarter, made the "Honor Roll".


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## SmithOp (Jun 10, 2015)

traveldaddy said:


> This seems kinda Mickey Mouse to me, how about you?
> 
> 
> 
> ...




You have to understand that a lot of the TUG responders are retired educators, hard to get an objective opinion.

I am the parent of a special education student, so I have a biased opinion too.  My wife and I had to work tirelessly to get services for our son from the school district, the teachers were great but the administration not so much.

One of my pet peeves was staff development days, they always seemed to schedule two days the week before Thanksgiving, then expect the kids to come to school mon-wed the week of the holiday, we always took off to visit family.  I always took Memorial , Thanksgiving, and XMas as my three weeks off work.

Adding: In the UK there is a financial penalty to parents that take their kids out of school during non-holiday periods.  The parents have been very vocal about resorts and airlines jacking up prices during school holidays, they are not happy about it.

Sent from my iPad using the strange new version of Tapatalk


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## matbec (Jun 10, 2015)

As DeniseM said, there are different rules, depending on your school district. 

I realize most of the opinions expressed here relate to the American experience, but wanted to chime in with our Canadian experience, just for variety. Ten years ago, we took our 2 children out of school for 2 weeks in May for SIL's wedding in the Netherlands. We spent the first week in London, extended weekend in the Netherlands, and the rest of the trip in Paris. Our children experienced all manner of historical sites (Tower of London, Buckingham Palace, Stonehenge, Roman Baths, Eiffel Tower, the Louvre, Notre Dame, Sacre Coeur Basilica, the Rose Line in Saint Sulpice to name a few). Also, we were in the Netherlands for the 60th anniversary of VE Day - a historical event near and dear to both the Dutch and Canadians. Our children were in grades 6 (DS) and 3 (DD) at the time, and were able to spend two solid weeks in the company of their great-grandparents, grandmother, and extended family. 

When planning the trip, I spoke to the school administration and teachers at the start of the school year. I asked about what the children would need to do to keep up with the work. Their response: keep a journal of the trip and present  it to the class on return. The first-hand educational value of this kind of trip far outweighed the days they were scheduled to miss. Full disclosure: it didn't hurt that the 2 weeks we were away coincided with the prep time for standardized testing in the province. 

During their high school years, we routinely took them both out of school for a week (4 days when coupled with a provincial holiday) for a mid-winter break. Both our children are now in university and doing very well. In high school, DS was on the Honour Roll and graduated with the highest mark in Geography (he would go on to major in this in university). In 2014, DD graduated from high school as Valedictorian, with the highest average of her class. We're very proud of both our children and we wouldn't have done things any differently with our vacations, given half the chance. 

All of this to say: there are no hard-and-fast rules and what worked well in our situation, may not work (as well or at all) for others. We have incredible, priceless memories of our vacations, made even more poignant now, with great-grandfather gone.


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## uscav8r (Jun 10, 2015)

With respect to the educator opinions, even those are not monolithic. My MIL is a retired LAUSD high school teacher. She is the one that paid for her two daughters, their husbands, and 7 total granddaughters to go on a Disney Cruise with her... In October. That's when she could get an affordable rate for three cabins. 

So I guess, even with the educators, the answer is still, "It depends!"


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## SMHarman (Jun 10, 2015)

DeniseM said:


> Talent312 - Children are now taught reading and math in Kindergarten - the curriculum has really been "pushed down," so that's no longer true.
> 
> However, you're right - absences at the age will be less critical, as long as they aren't absent all the time.
> 
> Children in the early grades who have excessive absences often never catch up with their peers, and that has devastating consequences in their later years of education.  Once you miss the optimal window to learn to read, it is very difficult to ever catch up.


But that optional window is somewhere in their 5 th year of Life and different for each child. 

http://lauragraceweldon.com/2012/08/07/reading-readiness-has-to-do-with-the-body/


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## Clemson Fan (Jun 10, 2015)

My oldest son goes to private school and his spring break the last couple of years has been the last week of March.  My 2 younger ones aren't of school age yet.  We love to go skiing and it's my personal favorite family vacation each year.  Well after 2 consecutive years of crappy snow conditions during the last week of March, we've decided to pull him out of school for a week in Feb next year to go skiing.

He's a high achiever in school and tested in the 99th percentile on his 4th grade ITBS standardized testing this year.  He tested at the 9th grade level.  I don't think pulling him for a week next year is a big deal and I don't think the school will view it as a big deal.


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## DeniseM (Jun 10, 2015)

Clemson Fan said:


> My oldest son goes to private school



Private schools can basically have any attendance rules they want, so they are not constrained by state attendance laws.


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## Clemson Fan (Jun 10, 2015)

DeniseM said:


> Private schools can basically have any attendance rules they want, so they are not constrained by state attendance laws.



I know.  That's why I made that statement.


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## Clemson Fan (Jun 10, 2015)

DeniseM said:


> Attendance is audited by the state, because funding is directly based on attendance, and a school that is not following the law is in big, big trouble, and may lose significant funding.



That's the key.  Forget about all the soapbox arguments, it's really just all about the $$.


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## DeniseM (Jun 10, 2015)

Clemson Fan said:


> That's the key.  Forget about all the soapbox arguments, it's really just all about the $$.



Absolutely - I was very clear that money is the reason schools in CA have such strict attendance rules - no mystery here.


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## CO skier (Jun 11, 2015)

It seems the whole justification of school year "educational" trips is so that parents can take the trips they want.

Give any child or teenager $2000 and the option of flying to Rome during the school year or hanging out at the local Holiday Inn or Hampton Inn with their friends and eating take-out until the money runs out during the summer, and what do you think they would choose?

As for the bias of educators, hmmmm ... the opinion of a trained educator or the opinion of a self-indulgent parent, what is the best choice?


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## Clemson Fan (Jun 11, 2015)

CO skier said:


> the opinion of a trained educator or the opinion of a self-indulgent parent, what is the best choice?



Yeah, that's not a slightly biased statement.


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## CO skier (Jun 11, 2015)

Clemson Fan said:


> Yeah, that's not a slightly biased statement.



OK ... and pulling students out of school for a week for no other reason than "I think it's the best ski conditions of the year" is not self-indulgent.

That is the stalemate where these kinds of discussions always end.


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## KathyPet (Jun 11, 2015)

I never took my kids out of school for a time share vacation or any other kind of vacation.  School was the most important thing they did and Infelt I would be sending the definite wrong message by letting them skip school to play on a beach.


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## Beefnot (Jun 11, 2015)

CO skier said:


> OK ... and pulling students out of school for a week for no other reason than "I think it's the best ski conditions of the year" is not self-indulgent.
> 
> That is the stalemate where these kinds of discussions always end.



I would agree that I have pulled my kids out of school primarily for self-centered reasons. My Four Seasons Aviara, Marriott Newport Coast, and Aulani exchanges over the last three years all occurred while school was in session, and I did not want us to pass them up.  I could try to retroactively rationalize some educational aspects, but that would intellectually dishonest.

 Going forward, I will be far more judicious in my decision-making about whether to pull the kids out of school, while recognizing that I my have a self-indulgent relapse under certain circumstances.  I just hope that any such relapses will be few and far between.


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## PearlCity (Jun 11, 2015)

DeniseM said:


> Please be aware that teachers do not have the authority to excuse school absences.


Yes I know. My main point was even if I wanted you pull my kid out if school for longer than a day or 2 my kid wouldn't let me. Last year we missed our connecting flight on SFO at the end if spring break by 5 minutes. Had to fly into maui to get back to Oahu. Didn't land until midnight and get home by 1 am. The kids insisted on going to school the next day. And they woke up, no complaints and did.


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## Chrispee (Jun 11, 2015)

I am a private school administrator and my wife is an elementary teacher, and we have pulled our son out of class for a week long vacation in both kindergarten and grade one. 

For our personal situation I don't see us doing this past grade 3 or so, but I believe the positives outweigh the negatives at this point in time.

Due to the nature of my job I'm not able to take vacation time at spring break or during the summer holidays, and I firmly believe that their is a dearth of family time in today's work-life balance. I agree with most here on TUG that school is an incredibly important commitment, but there can be tremendous educational and social development value during travel time as well. Everyone here seems to have a strong opinion, and now you know mine...


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## Pens_Fan (Jun 11, 2015)

theo said:


> I'll go with at least 3 with no research, and I'll even name them ---Virginia, Massachusetts and Pennsylvania.
> 
> There might well be others too, but your pop quiz stipulated no cheating.



I believe if you add Kentucky, you will have covered all of them.


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## bnoble (Jun 11, 2015)

RBERR1 said:


> I am curious how my fellow Tuggers have dealt with this.


We decided early on that we would not pull the kids out of school for vacations at any point. This decision has served us well, and I would make the same decision again.  We've still gotten to do pretty much everything we've wanted to do over the years.  True, airfare is higher, and things can be more crowded, but we figure that's just a small part of the total price we pay for having kids.

The kids are both doing very well in school, and probably would not have been the worse for wear to have missed class time. But, we wanted to send the message that responsibilities come first.  We also place a high value on vacations---clearly, as we take many of them---but we schedule them around our other commitments, rather than vice versa.


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## Clemson Fan (Jun 11, 2015)

CO skier said:


> OK ... and pulling students out of school for a week for no other reason than "I think it's the best ski conditions of the year" is not self-indulgent.
> 
> That is the stalemate where these kinds of discussions always end.



Hey now, we did put him in ski school for a few days and that was during his spring break the last few years.  So we owe it to the kid as make up time for extra days of school.


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## Elan (Jun 11, 2015)

I would suggest that most parents truly "self-indulgent" vacations don't involve kids at all.


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## Clemson Fan (Jun 11, 2015)

CO skier said:


> OK ... and pulling students out of school for a week for no other reason than "I think it's the best ski conditions of the year" is not self-indulgent.
> 
> That is the stalemate where these kinds of discussions always end.



In all seriousness, what you call self-indulgent I call important family time.  Yes school is important, but it's not the be all end all.  My kid has been to I think 20 different states and 7 different countries (Canada, Phillipines, England, France, Germany, Austria and Belgium) all by the age of 10.  His life experiences are as important as any school time he's missed going to these different places.  The trip to Germany, Austria and Belgium did cause some missed school time.  His teachers have always been very gracious about when we pull him and we make him keep a journal during the trip and he has to give a report in front of his class on what he's learned.

What do you all think of home schoolers?   While we don't officially home school, my wife and I do constantly try to educate our kids.  I admittedly have a lot of libertarian leanings and I appreciate and don't have any problem with parents who put forth the effort to home school.

BTW, in full disclosure both of my parents are retired public school teachers.


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## Clemson Fan (Jun 11, 2015)

Elan said:


> I would suggest that most parents truly "self-indulgent" vacations don't involve kids at all.



Amen brother! . That is a great post!!! :hysterical:

Our last son was conceived in Germany when we had a separate bedroom from our oldest son.


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## bnoble (Jun 11, 2015)

> when we had a separate bedroom from our oldest son.


That's the point of timesharing---a door (that locks) between the parents and children.


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## elaine (Jun 11, 2015)

We also decided  that we would not pull kids out of school for vacations. We have done the 2.5 days prior to Thanksg in elementary school for WDW to make it a full week and a day before/after spring break, but that's it. Our ele school was actually stricter than the middle school. It was a great pubic school and I didn't want to rock the boat. 
Airfare is higher, and things are a lot more crowded and I cannot grab all those great DVC, Marriott, etc. trades, but I feel that is the price to pay for using public education. I would love to travel offseason vs. sweltering in Aug. in Europe. We could have cruised for 1/2 the price for our family, etc. But, we have managed. We even debated homeschooling for one semester to travel the world for 2-3 months, but decided a good public education for 3 kids was worth traveling only at Christmas, spring break or summers instead.
Now, there is no way I could pull out for a week in HS--DD would be a nervous wreck making up the work and DS would have a difficult time catching up.


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## lizap (Jun 11, 2015)

As a student in school, that would have been me too.  If I had missed a week of high school algebra, trig, geometry, chemistry, or physics, I probably would have made an F on the next test.



elaine said:


> We also decided  that we would not pull kids out of school for vacations. We have done the 2.5 days prior to Thanksg in elementary school for WDW to make it a full week and a day before/after spring break, but that's it. Our ele school was actually stricter than the middle school. It was a great pubic school and I didn't want to rock the boat.
> Airfare is higher, and things are a lot more crowded and I cannot grab all those great DVC, Marriott, etc. trades, but I feel that is the price to pay for using public education. I would love to travel offseason vs. sweltering in Aug. in Europe. We could have cruised for 1/2 the price for our family, etc. But, we have managed. We even debated homeschooling for one semester to travel the world for 2-3 months, but decided a good public education for 3 kids was worth traveling only at Christmas, spring break or summers instead.
> Now, there is no way I could pull out for a week in HS--DD would be a nervous wreck making up the work and DS would have a difficult time catching up.


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## MichaelColey (Jun 11, 2015)

I think part of the reason this is such a contentious issue is because we're all very passionate about providing more for our kids than we had growing up.  For some, that focus is on a better education.  For others, it's more travel.  And that's all tied up with financial considerations (both for the parents and the school district).

If we take the financial considerations out of play, I personally believe that a well-traveled child gains a lot of valuable real world experience that they wouldn't learn in school.  Geography comes easy for my children, because they've been to almost all of the states and about a dozen foreign countries.  They've seen the Eiffel Tower, the Mona Lisa, the Louvre, and the Colosseum.  They've learned and used basic phrases in many foreign languages.  They've experienced other cultures.  They have a love of learning (and traveling).  And that didn't come from school.

This whole thread is really a moot point for my family.  We adjust the school schedule around our travel (and work) schedule.  While that's not the main reason we homeschool, it sure is a nice perk.

I totally agree with Clemson Fan that education should be done everywhere, not just at school.  Most of our trips have educational aspects.  That's seldom the focus of trips, but you can have teaching moments almost anywhere.  You just have to watch for them.

In addition to educating through curriculum and travel, we educate our kids through work.  Our older two (9 and 13) help in the family business (and the little guy, 5, is anxious to help, too).  They experience hard labor, working with customers, handling money, and other life skills that many kids twice their age still haven't mastered.

We encourage them to be college-minded, although I wouldn't be surprised if one or more of them forgoes college for entrepreneurial endeavors.


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## wackymother (Jun 11, 2015)

DeniseM said:


> At least in CA, this is not true.  If a student is absent, it doesn't matter why they are absent -  the school loses funding for that day - period.



Generally I agree with your points about taking children out of school for vacations, Denise. But school funding is definitely not like this in every state. I live in NJ, for example, and we do not do attendance-based funding. We do average annual full-time enrollment.


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## DeniseM (Jun 11, 2015)

wackymother said:


> Generally I agree with your points about taking children out of school for vacations, Denise. But school funding is definitely not like this in every state. I live in NJ, for example, and we do not do attendance-based funding. We do average annual full-time enrollment.



Exactly - that's why I specified that it was in CA.  

But my real point is that the parents needs to make an informed choice.  Don't just wing it - find out what the rules are and make the best arrangements for your child.


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## zonian91 (Jun 11, 2015)

Seems to me that you need to upgrade to a summer week.

Sent from my SM-T330NU using Tapatalk


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## mark201235 (Jun 11, 2015)

I coached high school softball for 4 years up until this past spring. I would get a copy of the daily school attendance to make sure the kids were in school so that they could participate in practice or games. I saw several kids who missed many consecutive days and had a high amount of total days absent. (fortunately none of the softball players). I'm talking 50+ total absent days by mid March. I was talking with the HS guidance counselor about this and was told that according to our school district policy, once a student turns 17 years of age that they could miss 9 days consecutively (tenth day was where they could get into trouble) and that all they had to get was a D to pass each class. Furthermore, I was told that with the current grading system, 2 marking periods (one semester) that the student could get an F in one of the marking periods and a D+ in the second and still pass (F plus D+ = D). I was astounded at hearing this. I know this has nothing to do with the topic at hand, however, it proves to me that taking my kids out of school for a week for a fun and educational vacation is no big deal at all.

Mark


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## "Roger" (Jun 11, 2015)

As a former college teacher (thus, my viewpoint can be written off as filled with prejudice - not to be taken seriously), I'll chime in with my own personal experience.

I have had very conscientious students come to me after missing a week while on vacation with their parents (more often than not, on a sun and surf holiday).  As far as the less conscientious students go, they would miss a week and I would have no idea why they were gone.

Did I help the conscientious students when they came to me? Of course. In fact, they might well have gotten a better education by having been gone a week.  What was a class presentation often became a one on one tutorial session, more often than not drifting off into wide ranging discussions of material presented throughout the semester.

As nice as this sounds, my helping them was time taken away from the classes in general.  It was pretty much a zero sum game.  I would put in a fifty to sixty hour work week (thirty to forty towards the very beginning of the semester, about a fifty hour week during the bulk of the semester, and sixty to seventy hour work week during stress times). It was not simply a matter of putting a little extra time to help these conscientious students.  Realistically the time that I would spend helping them out was that much less time doing a good job correcting essays and papers.  (Papers were assigned throughout the semester.  I did not believe in all or nothing term papers.) Did this time lost substantially hurt the other students?  Probably not too much in that it was lost time spread over so many students that no single student was put out that much.

Still, from a point of view of fairness, I don't think parents, the parents of conscientious students, should be putting a tax on the rest of the class simply so that their kids can be taken on vacation.  JMHO


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## Elan (Jun 11, 2015)

MichaelColey said:


> I think part of the reason this is such a contentious issue is because we're all very passionate about providing more for our kids than we had growing up.  For some, that focus is on a better education.  For others, it's more travel.  And that's all tied up with financial considerations (both for the parents and the school district).
> 
> If we take the financial considerations out of play, I personally believe that a well-traveled child gains a lot of valuable real world experience that they wouldn't learn in school.  Geography comes easy for my children, because they've been to almost all of the states and about a dozen foreign countries.  They've seen the Eiffel Tower, the Mona Lisa, the Louvre, and the Colosseum.  They've learned and used basic phrases in many foreign languages.  They've experienced other cultures.  They have a love of learning (and traveling).  And that didn't come from school.
> 
> ...



  Great post!  

  There's an underlying tone to the thread that learning happens only in the classroom.  I have one of the tougher bachelor's degrees to obtain -- umpteen quarters of math, physics, thermodynamics, electromagnetics, etc.  and to be honest, I seldom use any of the "academic" portion of my education in my job.  I succeed at my job because of things I learned outside of my formal education (logic and sound analytic skills).  So, while school is certainly important, it's not the end that many are making it out to be.  I can barely remember how to spell Carnot cycle and I certainly don't remember why Maxwell had so many damned equations....   

  To carry this thought a little further, a lot of this also has nothing to do with travel.  Not saying I'd do this, but I wouldn't consider it totally absurd if I pulled my kid out of school for a 1/2 day to have him/her watch/help me replace the brakes and shocks on my truck or replace the power transistor on the main board in my TV.  That type of learning is invaluable, IMO.  

  When you have kids, almost everything is a teaching opportunity.  Unfortunately, some seem to think that education occurs only in the classroom.


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## lizap (Jun 11, 2015)

I think all of us here agree that learning occurs both inside and outside of the classroom.   The issue is whether you should take your kids on vacation during the school year or take it during the generous breaks during the academic year and summer.




Elan said:


> Great post!
> 
> There's an underlying tone to the thread that learning happens only in the classroom.  I have one of the tougher bachelor's degrees to obtain -- umpteen quarters of math, physics, thermodynamics, electromagnetics, etc.  and to be honest, I seldom use any of the "academic" portion of my education in my job.  I succeed at my job because of things I learned outside of my formal education (logic and sound analytic skills).  So, while school is certainly important, it's not the end that many are making it out to be.  I can barely remember how to spell Carnot cycle and I certainly don't remember why Maxwell had so many damned equations....
> 
> ...


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## hypnotiq (Jun 11, 2015)

This thread has been great for some. :hysterical:

I'm glad some of you were never my parents... 

Bottom line: This has nothing to do with education and its all about money.


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## DeniseM (Jun 11, 2015)

Just like any other business or institution, schools have budgets, employees, utilities, maintenance, etc., etc.  They are obligated to generate enough funds to cover the budget.  

Maybe it's not a noble as debating the "value" of vacations during the school year, but it's a fact of life.


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## Elan (Jun 11, 2015)

lizap said:


> I think all of us here agree that learning occurs both inside and outside of the classroom.   The issue is whether you should take your kids on vacation during the school year or take it during the generous breaks during the academic year and summer.



  And trying to address the latter without regard to the former is being disingenuous, at best.


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## Beefnot (Jun 11, 2015)

hypnotiq said:


> This thread has been great for some. :hysterical:
> 
> I'm glad some of you were never my parents...
> 
> Bottom line: This has nothing to do with education and its all about money.


 
All about money, either to the school system or to the parents.  But what about the kids?  What about the kids?!


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## hypnotiq (Jun 11, 2015)

DeniseM said:


> Just like any other business or institution, schools have budgets, employees, utilities, maintenance, etc., etc.  They are obligated to generate enough funds to cover the budget.
> 
> Maybe it's not a noble as debating the "value" of vacations during the school year, but it's a fact of life.



And I'm not saying schools shouldn't be properly funded. I'm saying its ridiculous to tie attendance to how those schools are funded.


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## Beefnot (Jun 11, 2015)

Elan said:


> And trying to address the latter without regard to the former is being disingenuous, at best.


 
What is the latter and what is the former that you're referring to?


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## Elan (Jun 11, 2015)

Beefnot said:


> What is the latter and what is the former that you're referring to?



  In the quoted text.


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## presley (Jun 11, 2015)

RBERR1 said:


> As the kids are getting older, I keep going through my mind is at what point is "no biggie to miss a week" is no longer necessarily the best answer .  I know it is different for everyone and there is no "right answer" but I am curious how my fellow Tuggers have dealt with this.



My kids are adults now and looking back, I think it wouldn't have been that big of a deal for them to miss school for a vacation once in a while. Certainly not annually or anything like that, but what they remember now is stuff that we did together and they remember very little of what happened in school. 

As others have said, different schools and different kids will have different mileage and each should be looked at individually. If I owned a fixed week during the school session - I wouldn't expect to be using it much. If my kids were adaptable to missing a week and their teachers were fine with them missing, then I'd probably pull them out for a week every few years.

Nowadays, with jobs and college schedules, it is actually *much* more difficult to take family vacations. We thought it would be easier when they were out of high school, but that is not the case. Different college with different breaks... full time jobs on top of that. I really wish I could go back in time and take more family vacations when they were school aged.


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## DeniseM (Jun 11, 2015)

hypnotiq said:


> And I'm not saying schools shouldn't be properly funded. I'm saying its ridiculous to tie attendance to how those schools are funded.



OK - but remember that school districts don't make that decision - the state legislature mandates attendance/funding laws, and then the schools have a legal obligation to comply.  So posts that criticize the schools for the rules, are missing the mark.


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## hypnotiq (Jun 11, 2015)

DeniseM said:


> OK - but remember that school districts don't make that decision - the state legislature mandates attendance/funding laws, and then the schools have a legal obligation to comply.  So posts that criticize the schools for the rules, are missing the mark.



You're making an assumption that I'm blaming the schools (I'm not, I know better ).

I should have been more clear in my statement about it though. 

To be clear: I think its ridiculous for the government to tie funding to attendance...


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## DeniseM (Jun 11, 2015)

hypnotiq said:


> You're making an assumption that I'm blaming the schools (I'm not, I know better ).
> 
> I should have been more clear in my statement about it though.



No - it wasn't aimed at you.  Just trying to clarify for those who blame schools.

*Personally - I don't think this is a black or white issue.  I think it's a matter of making the best decision for your child.  You can't do that if you don't know what your school district's rules/options/consequences are.


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## bnoble (Jun 11, 2015)

> I personally believe that a well-traveled child gains a lot of valuable real world experience that they wouldn't learn in school.


Absolutely true.  We've found it is possible to have well-traveled children without them having to miss school.  Thanks to timeshares, it hasn't even been that much more expensive---a bit more on airfare here and there, but judicious use of airline miles helps for much of that. And, frankly, I can afford it, and would rather spend the money on experiences than things.


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## DeniseM (Jun 11, 2015)

I think we've just about worn this topic out - shall we start a thread about SMOKING or PETS in timeshares?  :rofl:


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## Beefnot (Jun 11, 2015)

lizap said:


> I think all of us here agree that learning occurs both inside and outside of the classroom. The issue is whether you should take your kids on vacation during the school year or take it during the generous breaks during the academic year and summer.


 


Elan said:


> And trying to address the latter without regard to the former is being disingenuous, at best.


 


Beefnot said:


> What is the latter and what is the former that you're referring to?


 


Elan said:


> In the quoted text.


 
Is inside/outside from the first sentence the former/latter or the first sentence / second sentence the former/latter?

Assuming the latter is the former/latter (you like that?), I don't follow how it is being disingenuous.  What is disingenous?


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## VegasBella (Jun 11, 2015)

DeniseM said:


> I think we've just about worn this topic out - shall we start a thread about SMOKING or PETS in timeshares?  :rofl:




Please, no!

We have taken our son out of school for travel. So far it's no big deal since it's only preschool. He still learned to read, learned addition and subtraction, etc...  he's all set for kindergarten. 

He'll go to a private school that works differently than traditional schools. Very few lessons are taught to the entire class all at once, rather most instruction is done one-on-one or in small groups. He wouldn't "fall behind" by missing a week or two because they all work at their own pace (and on average are 2-3 grades ahead of public school kids). 

Our state law allows 10 days of this type of absence without consequence. That's two weeks worth of vacation. So when it suits our family we will probably continue to do it.


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## davidvel (Jun 11, 2015)

DeniseM said:


> Just like any other business or institution, schools have budgets, employees, utilities, maintenance, etc., etc.  They are obligated to generate enough funds to cover the budget.
> 
> Maybe it's not a noble as debating the "value" of vacations during the school year, but it's a fact of life.


But in Ca $$$ is a non-issue, as the Education code expressly allows for schools to be paid when students are gone traveling.


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## DeniseM (Jun 11, 2015)

davidvel said:


> But in Ca $$$ is a non-issue, as the Education code expressly allows for schools to be paid when students are gone traveling.



Only if they go on short-term Ind. study.  Which is a formal process with requirements and a contract - not just getting the teacher's OK.  That's an example of why the parent has to know what the options are.  

Also - there is a legal limit to the number of Ind. Study days that are permitted in one school year.


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## davidvel (Jun 11, 2015)

MichaelColey said:


> I think part of the reason this is such a contentious issue is because we're all very passionate about providing more for our kids than we had growing up.  For some, that focus is on a better education.  For others, it's more travel.  And that's all tied up with financial considerations (both for the parents and the school district).
> 
> If we take the financial considerations out of play, I personally believe that a well-traveled child gains a lot of valuable real world experience that they wouldn't learn in school.  Geography comes easy for my children, because they've been to almost all of the states and about a dozen foreign countries.  They've seen the Eiffel Tower, the Mona Lisa, the Louvre, and the Colosseum.  They've learned and used basic phrases in many foreign languages.  They've experienced other cultures.  They have a love of learning (and traveling).  And that didn't come from school.
> 
> ...


 I agree with you Michael.

*To sum up my opinions on this thread*: 
I agree with those that think that:

- if _their_ child is going to suffer academically, or 
- if they think_ their_ child will  learn not to follow rules, or 
- if they think that _their_ child will grow up to not have responsibility,
all because they miss a week of school (and likely make up all the in class work), then certainly they should *never* allow_ their children_ to miss school for vacations.


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## DeniseM (Jun 11, 2015)

I have no idea why you quoted Michael - that's not what he said at all.


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## davidvel (Jun 11, 2015)

DeniseM said:


> I have no idea why you quoted Michael - that's not what he said at all.


Edited to clarify ...


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## ilene13 (Jun 11, 2015)

I don't think state aid to any particular school is in jeopardy if you take a child out of school for a few days.  State aid  is effected when the school is closed i.e., snow days.


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## davidvel (Jun 11, 2015)

DeniseM said:


> Only if they go on short-term Ind. study.  Which is a formal process with requirements and a contract - not just getting the teacher's OK.  That's an example of why the parent has to know what the options are.
> 
> Also - there is a legal limit to the number of Ind. Study days that are permitted in one school year.



I agree if people refuse to do ISCs that's dirty, but I haven't seen any comments about people taking a week off and refusing to do ISCs. The limits are something like 10% of student days, also not an issue here. 

Its not that formal. Most teachers just copy their lesson plan for the intended week and give to student. Everyone signs the contract. 

If a district refuses to allow ISCs that are allowed by state law, they shouldn't complaint about losing $$$.


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## davidvel (Jun 11, 2015)

ilene13 said:


> I don't think state aid to any particular school is in jeopardy if you take a child out of school for a few days.  State aid  is effected when the school is closed i.e., snow days.


In CA this is not true per Education Code.  School loses $$$ even for excused absences (ie. if you are sick or at doctor).

So if sick for 4 days=school loses about $200.
Go on vacation for a week and do ISC, school loses 0.


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## DeniseM (Jun 11, 2015)

In my previous teaching position, every single student in my class went on short-term Ind. study, so I have a lot of experience with this.

Many parents simply do not _know_ about STIS, so they are hesitant to reveal to the school that they are taking their child out for a vacation.   That's why I keep saying that parents need to sit down with an administrator and make sure they know what's offered.

The limit in CA is 20 total school days of STIS per year, no matter what the reason for STIS is.


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## John Cummings (Jun 11, 2015)

bnoble said:


> We decided early on that we would not pull the kids out of school for vacations at any point. This decision has served us well, and I would make the same decision again.  We've still gotten to do pretty much everything we've wanted to do over the years.  True, airfare is higher, and things can be more crowded, but we figure that's just a small part of the total price we pay for having kids.
> 
> The kids are both doing very well in school, and probably would not have been the worse for wear to have missed class time. But, we wanted to send the message that responsibilities come first.  We also place a high value on vacations---clearly, as we take many of them---but we schedule them around our other commitments, rather than vice versa.



I agree 100%. We would never dream of taking kids out of school for the parents satisfaction. Many parents are self indulgent and don't make sacrifices anymore for their kids. I feel the same way about parents that haul their kids to Las Vegas to satisfy themselves and not the children. We never went to Las Vegas or similar places until our kids were grown up. Of course we have more than made up for it since. All of our trips were during school vacations and to places where the kids could enjoy themselves.


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## WinniWoman (Jun 11, 2015)

John Cummings said:


> I agree 100%. We would never dream of taking kids out of school for the parents satisfaction. Many parents are self indulgent and don't make sacrifices anymore for their kids. I feel the same way about parents that haul their kids to Las Vegas to satisfy themselves and not the children. We never went to Las Vegas or similar places until our kids were grown up. Of course we have more than made up for it since. All of our trips were during school vacations and to places where the kids could enjoy themselves.




Exactly. I am of this camp also.


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## SueDonJ (Jun 11, 2015)

John Cummings said:


> I agree 100%. We would never dream of taking kids out of school for the parents satisfaction. Many parents are self indulgent and don't make sacrifices anymore for their kids. I feel the same way about parents that haul their kids to Las Vegas to satisfy themselves and not the children. We never went to Las Vegas or similar places until our kids were grown up. Of course we have more than made up for it since. All of our trips were during school vacations and to places where the kids could enjoy themselves.



Geeeeeze.  These kinds of comments are so combative.

If I were self-indulgent I would have used credit cards to take my kids on vacation every year whenever and wherever I wanted, instead of prioritizing expenses and foregoing vacations when we couldn't afford them.  And I would have told the other family members involved in the two-in-sixteen-years special trips for which we did take the kids out of school, that things had to happen according to our schedule or couldn't happen at all.

For most of our vacations when the kids were young we rented houses with a few other family members at a lake in New Hampshire or on Cape Cod, but there were at least five years when we couldn't even do that.  Twice. two measly times, we saved up and splurged on trips that required air travel and, horror of horrors, accommodating other people's schedules with missed school days for our kids.

I have no problem with folks saying that they would not make the same choices that we did as far as taking our kids out of school.  I'm sure there are other things you might do that I wouldn't ever!  But if you don't want me denigrating your parental skills for your choices, don't denigrate mine.


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## VegasBella (Jun 11, 2015)

John Cummings said:


> I agree 100%. We would never dream of taking kids out of school for the parents satisfaction. Many parents are self indulgent and don't make sacrifices anymore for their kids. I feel the same way about parents that haul their kids to Las Vegas to satisfy themselves and not the children. We never went to Las Vegas or similar places until our kids were grown up. Of course we have more than made up for it since. All of our trips were during school vacations and to places where the kids could enjoy themselves.


 I know what you mean here but the implication is that there's nothing for children in Vegas. In fact as someone who is raising a child in Las Vegas I can tell you there's plenty for kids to do around here and lots of it is educational, too. For example, I've taken my son to Broadway musicals, the Wetlands Park, Red Rock Canyon, the Children's Museum, the Atomic Testing Museum, Valley of Fire, Mount Charleston, Springs Preserve, Floyd Lamb Park, Henderson Bird Viewing Preserve (we actually planted a tree there), Adventuredome, the Bellagio Museum of Fine Art (during Easter to see Fabrege Eggs), SkyZone, and lots of other fun places like parks and pools. 

Much of the Vegas valley is also special in other ways: for example Henderson is one of the top 10 most integrated cities in the USA. Plenty of cities are diverse. Few are actually highly integrated. And the low cost of living (comparatively - many urban/suburban amenities at a lower cost than usual) make things like private school and vacations affordable.


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## WinniWoman (Jun 11, 2015)

I really don't care what other people do. I only state how I handled it. To each his own.


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## Beefnot (Jun 11, 2015)

John Cummings said:


> I agree 100%. We would never dream of taking kids out of school for the parents satisfaction. Many parents are self indulgent and don't make sacrifices anymore for their kids. I feel the same way about parents that haul their kids to Las Vegas to satisfy themselves and not the children. We never went to Las Vegas or similar places until our kids were grown up. Of course we have more than made up for it since. All of our trips were during school vacations and to places where the kids could enjoy themselves.


 
I don't disagree for the most part. Except the Las Vegas part. It has become very family friendly and we have gone twice in the last year (during school breaks!) and had a great time. Only gambled about an hour total between both trips.

What it comes down to is that some parents don't mind pulling their kids out of school for vacations and others do. Those who don't mind are taking vacations driven more from self-motivation, though yes for family's benefit. My kids weren't begging to miss school to go on the particular vacations that we went on, and we could just as easily have gone on the same vacations during spring break and the summer. But in doing so I might not have had the same opportunity to stay at Aulani, or FSA, or NCV, at the price points we were able to otherwise obtain them, and thus my wife and I decided to make it work with the school and teachers so we didn't miss out on these opportunities. That is self-motivation and I will acknowledge as much.

Citing the educational aspects that my kids received on our vacations is a red herring, as these educational components have very little or no relationship with the timing that we took the vacation.


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## John Cummings (Jun 11, 2015)

VegasBella said:


> I know what you mean here but the implication is that there's nothing for children in Vegas. In fact as someone who is raising a child in Las Vegas I can tell you there's plenty for kids to do around here and lots of it is educational, too. For example, I've taken my son to Broadway musicals, the Wetlands Park, Red Rock Canyon, the Children's Museum, the Atomic Testing Museum, Valley of Fire, Mount Charleston, Springs Preserve, Floyd Lamb Park, Henderson Bird Viewing Preserve (we actually planted a tree there), Adventuredome, the Bellagio Museum of Fine Art (during Easter to see Fabrege Eggs), SkyZone, and lots of other fun places like parks and pools.
> 
> Much of the Vegas valley is also special in other ways: for example Henderson is one of the top 10 most integrated cities in the USA. Plenty of cities are diverse. Few are actually highly integrated. And the low cost of living (comparatively - many urban/suburban amenities at a lower cost than usual) make things like private school and vacations affordable.



You are living in Las Vegas which is different. Trust me, I know Las Vegas very well and yes there are some very nice neighborhoods like Summerlin, etc. I am referring to the people that drag their kids through the casinos. I am sorry but kids do not belong in Casinos for both the kids sake and for the adults who want an adult vacation. The last thing I want to see are small children in a casino and yes it does happen.


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## John Cummings (Jun 11, 2015)

Beefnot said:


> I don't disagree for the most part. Except the Las Vegas part. It has become very family friendly and we have gone twice in the last year (during school breaks!) and had a great time. Only gambled about an hour total between both trips..



You think casinos and sexy handouts on the streets to be family friendly? When our kids were young we took them to places with attractions that they would enjoy.

We really enjoyed our kids and still do as adults. We traveled all over Florida on weekends to our kids soccer and baseball games both club and school teams. We never missed here school games during the week. I went to work early on game days so I could leave. We really enjoyed being there to support them. We just loved doing things with them.


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## Chrispee (Jun 11, 2015)

John Cummings said:


> We would never dream of taking kids out of school for the parents satisfaction. Many parents are self indulgent and don't make sacrifices anymore for their kids.



I agree that parents' satisfaction and self-indulgence can potentially play a role in vacationing during school time, but this is a pretty inflammatory statement to those of us who have carefully weighted out the pros and cons missing school days for family vacation time.  I get that you disagree, but that doesn't give you the right to insult others who have a different opinion.


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## VegasBella (Jun 11, 2015)

John Cummings said:


> The last thing I want to see are small children in a casino and yes it does happen.


Of course it happens. Some of us actually work at casinos. And some of us have children. And sometimes Mommy brings the kids with her to meet Daddy when he gets off work so everyone can go out to eat together - at one of the casino restaurants because of the employee discount. 

Sometimes we take our kids through the casino to go see the special charity night Cirque show (they do special performances for locals-only at a special rate and it's kid-friendly... the money from those performances goes to local charities). 

Sometimes we walk through a casino to just get to the other side, because it was quicker or safer or cheaper to park at a casino garage. 

Some of those things on my list were inside casinos (like the Bellagio Museum of Fine Art and the Adeventuredome) thus we have to walk through a casino with our kids in order to bring kids there.

What looks like "dragging the children through the casino" to you is often something else entirely. 

Personally, I try to avoid it and so do many of the parents I know. But that's mostly to avoid judgy people like yourself as well as all the second-hand smoke. But there are times when it makes sense. 

Many of the locals casinos have daycares, btw (afaik, none of the touristy casinos have daycares). Most of the movie theaters and bowling alleys are located inside casinos, so one thing we do since we don't have a nanny is we use the casino daycare sometimes for a "date-night" where we have dinner and see a movie.


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## Beefnot (Jun 11, 2015)

John Cummings said:


> You think casinos and sexy handouts on the streets to be family friendly? When our kids were young we took them to places with attractions that they would enjoy.


 

No we don't, which is why we took them to Circus Circus Adventuredome, the new High Roller observation wheel, Nathan Burton magic show, Michael Jackson One Cirque du Soleil show, Hoover Dam, boating on Lake Mead, lounging at the pool, etc. Yeah, we made the mistake of taking them downtown to Fremont St one night, but we recognized the mistake and course corrected before they were any the wiser.  After we went in August, we gave them the option of going back to San Diego for spring break which they love (ah, Welk!), but they said VEGAS!!!!


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## davidvel (Jun 11, 2015)

John Cummings said:


> We would never dream of taking kids out of school for the parents satisfaction. Many parents are self indulgent and don't make sacrifices anymore for their kids.


Neither would we. We take them out for lots of other reasons: practical, pragmatic, and economic. 

I do dream about taking my kids out of school for all the reasons I've stated in this thread.  We make incredible sacrifices for our kids, but don't make up false idols such as perfect attendance as one of the things that one needs to "sacrifice" for.

If a parent's kid missing a week of school to vacation while keeping current on all school work is going to set them back academically, morally or otherwise, I certainly feel very sorry for those folks, and hope they keep them in school each day.


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## Beefnot (Jun 11, 2015)

Chrispee said:


> I agree that parents' satisfaction and self-indulgence can potentially play a role in vacationing during school time, but this is a pretty inflammatory statement to those of us who have carefully weighted out the pros and cons missing school days for family vacation time. I get that you disagree, but that doesn't give you the right to insult others who have a different opinion.


 
Eh, I did not find it all that inflammatory personally, and I resembled the remark.  Semantics.  Self-motivation, self-indulgent, selfish, all the same to me.  We pull our kids out because we subordinate the value of them being in school to the fun or reduced expense or, ahem, "educational benefit" of vacationing.  That's pretty much it.  I am not dodging it, accept it, and don't take offense.  

That said, I don't know that I want to make a routine any longer of taking them out of school with my oldest entering 2nd grade at a school with rigorous emphasis on academics and homework.  Unless those reduced DCL prices become too tempting.


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## davidvel (Jun 11, 2015)

Beefnot said:


> That said, I don't know that I want to make a routine any longer of taking them out of school with my oldest entering 2nd grade at a school with rigorous emphasis on academics and homework.  Unless those reduced DCL prices become too tempting.


You know they will... 

And, make sure that 7 year old does at least 3-4 hours of homework per night, and absolutely no TV or tablets or (god forbid) Kendamas, lest they fall behind the kids of perfect parents (or grandparents). :hysterical:


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## DeniseM (Jun 11, 2015)

Anyway, I think smoking pets should be allowed in timeshares - especially pets that smoke marijuana.  

What do you think?


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## Eli Mairs (Jun 11, 2015)

Our Canadian school system doesn't have an issue with attendance.
We used to take our two daughters out of school for a week at a time in the '80's when they were in public school, for family vacations, creating memories which we considered priceless. 
Our daughters were competitive dancers, and even when they were in high school, we traveled all over the U.S., spending a week in Las Vegas one year, New Orleans, Orlando, going to various competitions. They learned a lot of things in addition to their dancing skills, not taught in school - camaraderie, discipline, joy of winning, being gracious in defeat - all valuable life lessons.
Missing school throughout the years had no negative impact on them. They went on to graduate from university with honours degrees, and now have well paid jobs in their chosen careers.


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## VegasBella (Jun 11, 2015)

DeniseM said:


> Anyway, I think smoking pets should be allowed in timeshares - especially pets that smoke marijuana.
> 
> What do you think?


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## SueDonJ (Jun 11, 2015)

DeniseM said:


> Anyway, I think smoking pets should be allowed in timeshares - especially pets that smoke marijuana.
> 
> What do you think?



Live and let live, dude.  Maybe he'll share.


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## John Cummings (Jun 11, 2015)

Chrispee said:


> I agree that parents' satisfaction and self-indulgence can potentially play a role in vacationing during school time, but this is a pretty inflammatory statement to those of us who have carefully weighted out the pros and cons missing school days for family vacation time.  I get that you disagree, but that doesn't give you the right to insult others who have a different opinion.



I said many parents, not all.


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## Kaye (Jun 18, 2015)

In my 30's I was a singe foster parent.  Several times I took the kids out of school for vacations.  I had friends who questioned my commitment to schooling, but as someone who had worked myself throuh school and had 2 Masters degrees, I felt I had already proven that point.  I felt that "my kids" needed more family time than school times, as most obviously hadn't come from strong family backgrounds.  Also, I did commit myself to school work with them.


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## Luanne (Jun 18, 2015)

We never did, but we were able to schedule vacation trips during their school breaks.  There was only one time I considered it and that was to go see a shuttle launch in Florida.  Turns out there was one scheduled during one of their Spring breaks, so we didn't need to pull them out of school and ended up staying for a week so we could do Disney as well.


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## VegasBella (Jun 18, 2015)

Kaye said:


> In my 30's I was a singe foster parent.  Several times I took the kids out of school for vacations.  I had friends who questioned my commitment to schooling, but as someone who had worked myself throuh school and had 2 Masters degrees, I felt I had already proven that point.  I felt that "my kids" needed more family time than school times, as most obviously hadn't come from strong family backgrounds.  Also, I did commit myself to school work with them.


You did the right thing!


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## Rsauer3473 (Jun 18, 2015)

I wrote this article a few years back and it covers a number of issues discussed above. As for the school loss of money due to absences, generally the loss accrues to the district, not the school, in most states. 

Taking Children out of School for a Disney Trip? A Vacation Dilemma
Part 1: The Decision 
Three scenarios: 
Family A takes its vacations during the summer when school is out and Dad has his annual two week time off for a trip. 
Family B has two parents working and need to coordinate their times off for a vacation. Needless to say, this sometimes means vacations during the school year. 
Family C has a single parent working a job with no paid vacation. If there is a vacation at all, it must be during off-seasons when prices for lodging are lower. These are invariably during the fall or early winter. 

The decision to take students out of school for any vacation is now driven by numerous social, educational, and economic factors. As a retired school administrator (including service as a high school principal) I was often called on to deal with students whose attendance was impacted by parental vacation decisions. Simply put, my position was that students need to be in school when it is in session. Absenteeism is strongly correlated with lack of success in school. To paraphrase Woody Allen, "Half the secret of success is simply showing up."
However, as the three scenarios above indicate, times have changed. America may have moved beyond the agrarian calendar that drove its educational system a century ago, but that same calendar refuses to give up the wheel. Just as families have changed, the types of vacations (and even the ability to have one!) have also changed. 
And sometimes the school calendar and vacation windows simply do not cooperate. This means that decisions to take trips during the school year including those to Disney World should be made with foresight and an open consideration of a variety of factors. While there is no one good answer for every situation, what follows is a series of questions that should be discussed as plans are made. Part 2 is a set of activities that can help one maintain an element of educational rigor during a Disney World vacation on school time. 

FAMILY ISSUES: 

• Do parent work schedules allow for time off during non-school periods? 

• Can the family afford vacation costs during school vacation periods (read: Peak Season)? 

• Can the parent(s) properly supervise homework assigned during the absence? 

• Can the parent(s) properly develop a series of activities that take advantage of Disney World and the travel itinerary? 

• How many days will the student remain out of school? 

• Can the trip be scheduled so as to minimize days of school missed? More than a week can set any student back. 


STUDENT ISSUES: These should be answered for every student and more critically for student in grades 6-12 

• Does the student want to go? Your college-bound senior may like the idea but not the timing. Is there a responsible adult available to serve as a guardian in your absence? 

• Has the student been successful in school? 

• Has the student missed more than ten school days in the past year? 

• Is the student enrolled in a performance class (band, choir, and orchestra) or an extra-curricular activity that would be missed during the trip? 

• Is the student in the habit of doing homework on a daily basis? 

• Is the student enrolled in special education, accelerated, or other specialized program? 

SCHOOL ISSUES: 

• What are the state law and district and school policies regarding pre-arranged absences from school? 

• Will the teacher/s assist the student is assigning homework for the trip? 

• Will the student be able to make up work on his return from the trip? 

• Can any element of the Disney World experience be used to supplement or enhance the material covered in specific classes? 
Remember that most educators have worked in a system that starts in the fall, takes winter and Spring Breaks, and shuts down in the summer. It is sometimes assumed by educators that the rest of the world is on this schedule. 
As one can see, the answer to the question posed in the title of this piece is: It depends. My own view is that, if the parents are forced to take time off during school time, they will. But if they have a choice of vacation times, then they need to seriously consider the second and third question sets and weigh the pros and cons. These all lead up to a single compelling question: Can my child afford to be away from direct instruction and participation at school for the duration of the trip?

PART 2: Educational Opportunities- Those Taken and Those Missed 
If the decision is made to remove students from school for a trip, it has hopefully been done with the blessing of your student's school and that teachers have cooperated in providing homework in advance. This is not always as easy as it seems; one would like to think that teachers can just whip out the assignment for the next week or two at the drop of a hat -- some can, some cannot. Hopefully, it will not be busy work. On the other hand, are you ready to help Sally with her calculus? Again, the decision for an older student will be in part driven by the student, and Sally might rather be in calculus class. 
But if you have homework with you, your students should be able to do some of it in the car on the way to the World or on the airplane. The educational advantage of this is obvious, as should be the lesson that "play" time sometimes requires "work" time. 
Even if there are no lessons to do, your job as parent-mentor can be enhanced by providing supplemental work materials at a grade-appropriate level. Any bookstore or American Automobile Association store can provide these types of workbooks. And, if the student is old enough, the simple act of reading is beneficial. Bring BOOKS in their carry-ons! 
A couple of years ago my daughter by necessity had to arrange a vacation during school time. My twin grandchildren, Colin and Caitlin, had reading books as well as a journal that they were expected to complete. Each journal had a page with the date at the top. Each filled out boxes on each page covering topics like naming three activities of the day and their favorite event, person, or place of the day. They were also asked to draw something they saw that day. My daughter also had them do the World Showcase tour with Passports to have signed at the Epcot Kidcot stations. 
One key to providing some thinking skills in the trip to Walt Disney World is MAPS. Traveling to Orlando either by plane, train, or automobile can be enhanced by having younger children learn the geography through which (or over which) they are traveling. Maps from AAA can be a godsend. Similarly, the park maps can be used to let children plot their daily activities. Disney makes beautiful, customizable family-specific maps for free and they can be ordered through the Disney World website www.disneyworld.com 
Advanced students interested in art and architecture can learn a great deal though the recently published Imagineering Field Guides to the Walt Disney World parks. And, of course, the parks themselves and especially Epcot and Animal Kingdom can be considered living lesson plans. Even as experienced an educator as I recognize that a trip to Harambe Village is going to be more memorable than Miss Feeny's scintillating lecture on African quadrupeds! 
So the decision is yours to make. But in doing so, be thoughtful about your own family's flexibility to travel, your children's educational needs and maturity, and how YOU can make a school time trip to Disney World educational as well as fun.


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## Beefnot (Jun 19, 2015)

Some revisions:



Rsauer3473 said:


> Three scenarios:
> Family A takes its vacations during the summer when school is out and Dad has his annual two week *both parents can and/or choose to take *time off for a trip.
> Family B has two parents working and need to coordinate their times off for a vacation. Needless to say, this sometimes means *Although often not required, they may still find it simpler to coordinate *vacations during the school year.
> Family C has a single parent working a job with no paid vacation. If there is a vacation at all, *and the parent would like their hard-earned dollars to go farther and/or toward more comfortable accommodations, *it must be during off-seasons when prices for lodging are lower. These are invariably during the fall or early winter.


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