# Who pays the voluntary ARDA fee with their MFs?



## Numismatist (Nov 13, 2010)

Let's see the results!

Just post in this thread a 'yes' or 'no'...

I'm no.


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## dioxide45 (Nov 13, 2010)

Numismatist said:


> Let's see the results!
> 
> Just post in this thread a 'yes' or 'no'...
> 
> I'm no.



No.

Did once, but not any more. The ARDA does help to fight some owner unfriendly legislation, but only when that legislation is also not in the developers interest. So they will do that with my $10 or not. They do lobby for many owner unfriendly legislation so I don't want to help fund that.


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## aka Julie (Nov 13, 2010)

No, never have.


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## dima (Nov 13, 2010)

yes, always pay


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## Carol C (Nov 13, 2010)

no & never have


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## yumdrey (Nov 13, 2010)

No. I own 10 TS and *NEVER* pay ARDA.


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## rapmarks (Nov 13, 2010)

no I don't pay (and they try to get it on my three residential lots too)


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## SueDonJ (Nov 13, 2010)

No, never.


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## riverdees05 (Nov 13, 2010)

We own 12 timeshares and only pay it once, not 12 times.


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## EducatedConsumer (Nov 13, 2010)

No, we never have.

I find ARDA to have first and foremost, the interests of their Developer members in mind. If my memory is right, ARDA is the Developer's trade association. ARDA makes some very peripheral references to representing timeshare owners, but my sense is that those references are insincere and rhetorical.

I don't believe that any one association can objectively represent both Developers and consumer, end-users.


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## MommaBear (Nov 13, 2010)

Nope- do not believe in giving money to lobbyists


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## tschwa2 (Nov 13, 2010)

No........


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## Numismatist (Nov 13, 2010)

Begs the question:

Why doesn't someone start a NON-developer ARDA-like organization.  I'd contribute to that.


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## Pit (Nov 13, 2010)

Numismatist said:


> Begs the question:
> 
> Why doesn't someone start a NON-developer ARDA-like organization.  I'd contribute to that.



It's called TUG.

And, no I don't give my money to ARDA.


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## Lee55 (Nov 13, 2010)

No, never.


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## Numismatist (Nov 13, 2010)

Pit said:


> It's called TUG.
> 
> And, no I don't give my money to ARDA.




:rofl: :rofl:  Me too!


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## Kel (Nov 13, 2010)

No.         No.


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## jimf41 (Nov 13, 2010)

Pit said:


> It's called TUG.
> 
> And, no I don't give my money to ARDA.



Me three.....


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## BocaBoy (Nov 13, 2010)

Since most of you seem to be "experts" at what ARDA supports, can you give me two or three specific examples of legislation that they pursued which benefits developers at the expense of owners?  I would think that most legislation that hurts timeshare developers also hurts owners, and vice versa.  A good example would be timeshare taxation.


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## dioxide45 (Nov 13, 2010)

BocaBoy said:


> Since most of you seem to be "experts" at what ARDA supports, can you give me two or three specific examples of legislation that they pursued which benefits developers at the expense of owners?  I would think that most legislation that hurts timeshare developers also hurts owners, and vice versa.  A good example would be timeshare taxation.



Truth in Lending laws. They along with just about every lender, fight these.

Non judicial foreclosure process. They supported this. This allows developers to foreclose on owner weeks without having to go through the courts. This is good for HOAs in a way in that it keeps the foreclosure process cheaper and quicker for an HOA, but it opens it up to be abused with very little oversight with a corporate conglomerate.

I am sure there are plenty of disclosure laws that they fought. All those documents one has to sign at closing is for the most part because of regulation. Regulation drives up cost and is a pain in general to the developers. However used properly it protects consumers.


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## JimC (Nov 13, 2010)

No........


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## rsackett (Nov 13, 2010)

No.....Never

Ray


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## Stefa (Nov 13, 2010)

No.  

I wonder how many owners (non-TUGgers) pay the fee not even realizing what it is for.


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## Eli Mairs (Nov 13, 2010)

No... Have never paid it.


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## gwhamm (Nov 13, 2010)

I don't pay the fee and never have.


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## SpikeMauler (Nov 13, 2010)

No,no,no,n


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## BocaBoy (Nov 14, 2010)

dioxide45 said:


> Truth in Lending laws. They along with just about every lender, fight these.
> 
> Non judicial foreclosure process. They supported this. This allows developers to foreclose on owner weeks without having to go through the courts. This is good for HOAs in a way in that it keeps the foreclosure process cheaper and quicker for an HOA, but it opens it up to be abused with very little oversight with a corporate conglomerate.
> 
> I am sure there are plenty of disclosure laws that they fought. All those documents one has to sign at closing is for the most part because of regulation. Regulation drives up cost and is a pain in general to the developers. However used properly it protects consumers.



The Federal Truth in Lending Law goes back 40 years and preempts conflicting state laws.  It is pretty settled and well accepted by lenders.  State TIL laws are therefore not of much importance and I doubt that ARDA worries much about them.  What specific TIL laws have they lobbied against?  I cannot find them and ARDA does not appear to be working on any TIL issues now.  And if they ever opposed a TIL law, was it like most financial industry opposition, namely that having conflicting state and federal laws are not good?  The financial industry has not opposed the objectives of TIL for about 40 years and I doubt that ARDA is any different.

Non judicial foreclosure is actually favored by most HOAs, which after all are owner organizations.

"I am sure there are plenty of disclosure laws that they fought" is a real good example, isn't it?  You seem to be really saying that you don't know what they lobby for, but that whatever it is must be against owner interests.  By the way, most of the required closing documents and disclosures are not caused by laws relating to timeshares, but rather apply to real estate generally.  ARDA focuses primarily on timeshare specific issues.


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## BocaBoy (Nov 14, 2010)

dioxide45 said:


> No.
> 
> Did once, but not any more. The ARDA does help to fight some owner unfriendly legislation, but only when that legislation is also not in the developers interest. So they will do that with my $10 or not. They do lobby for many owner unfriendly legislation so I don't want to help fund that.



Here is the mission of what one contributes to:  "The ARDA-*Resort Owners’ Coalition* (ARDA-ROC) is the first line of defense *against legislation that may negatively impact timeshare owners and their well-being*.  Through ARDA-ROC, owners can be  part of an effective grassroots lobbying *coalition of timeshare unit owners dedicated to preserving, protecting, and enhancing vacation ownership*. 

ARDA-ROC is *comprised of one million-plus timeshare owners* across the country who voluntarily contribute $3-$5 a year to *advocate for local, state and federal policies that are beneficial to timeshare owners*.  ARDA-ROC’s resources ensure that a powerful advocacy arm exists and is equipped to fight the next legislative battle, not the last. Our owners understand the effectiveness of uniting collectively as one voice to *support policies that ensure consumer protections are in place* and that positive changes in our industry and for the members we represent are preserved."

From what I have seen, they do in fact advocate for *owner* interests.


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## winger (Nov 14, 2010)

Never have. 

IF ARDA can consistently show me year-after-year examples of what they successfully accomplished during the year, what they tried to accomplish but failed, and what's on their agemda for the coming year, then and only then would I consider contributing. Otherwise, they just seem like many other BS political group out there with hidden agendas...and those agendas are normally of the type which do NOT benefit me.


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## EducatedConsumer (Nov 14, 2010)

Fron ARDA brochure:


Who We Are

*The American Resort Development Association (ARDA) is the Washington D.C.-based trade association representing the vacation ownership and resort development industries (timeshares).* ARDA has almost 1,000 corporate members ranging from privately held firms to publicly traded corporations with extensive experience in shared ownership interests in leisure real estate. The membership also includes timeshare owner associations (HOAs), resort management companies, industry vendors, suppliers, and consultants; as well as owners through the ARDA Resort Owners Coalition (ARDA-ROC).

ARDA promotes the growth and development of the timeshare industry through a variety of capacities.

Advocacy: ARDA monitors regulatory issues that affect timeshare by engaging in lobbying efforts focused on the establishment of a legislative environment that enhances consumer confidence and protection.

Networking: ARDA offers industry professionals educational and networking opportunities each year through the ARDA Annual Convention and Exposition.

B2B Partnerships and Bridge-Building: ARDA pursues business and growth opportunities through alliances with organizations in related and complementary industries in the U.S. and overseas.

Outreach: ARDA keeps its members updated with the latest industry news.
Knowledge: ARDA shares market intelligence and keeps its members informed of industry trends and events through a variety of informational tools, including Developments Magazine, research, webinars, and www.arda.org.

Professional Development: The ARDA International Foundation (AIF) offers professional and educational development through publications covering the industry's ethical, legal, regulatory, and operational intricacies; study courses; and tests that assess industry knowledge.


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## Michael (Nov 14, 2010)

Never as well.

- Michael


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## dioxide45 (Nov 14, 2010)

BocaBoy said:


> From what I have seen, they do in fact advocate for *owner* interests.



They likely do, but where does the real money come from? Developers. So when it comes down to an issue that is good for owners but bad for developers, who's interests do you think they will be concerned with?


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## Tia (Nov 14, 2010)

BocaBoy said:


> ....
> From what I have seen, they do in fact advocate for *owner* interests.



No expert but ARDA did go into the USVI and work with legislators on the ts property taxes fairly recently. The USVI wanted to tax on the full sales value , as it always had, with a higher new % value then any other VI property. I understand they decided to go with 50% of original developer sales value, which is still very very high when it comes to resale values and when you look at a similar property that is not timeshare... even in same bldg as my one ts has a few year round units also. They tax the ts properties like they were made of gold.


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## pedro47 (Nov 14, 2010)

When we first started many, many yars ago;but not in the past 20 years.


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## Numismatist (Nov 14, 2010)

Tia said:


> No expert but ARDA did go into the USVI and work with legislators on the ts property taxes fairly recently. The USVI wanted to tax on the full sales value , as it always had, with a higher new % value then any other VI property. I understand they decided to go with 50% of original developer sales value, which is still very very high when it comes to resale values and when you look at a similar property that is not timeshare... even in same bldg as my one ts has a few year round units also. They tax the ts properties like they were made of gold.



Agreed, but with the caveat that I STILL have not seen any property tax bills EVER!


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## zazz (Nov 14, 2010)

BocaBoy said:


> Since most of you seem to be "experts" at what ARDA supports, can you give me two or three specific examples of legislation that they pursued which benefits developers at the expense of owners?  I would think that most legislation that hurts timeshare developers also hurts owners, and vice versa.  A good example would be timeshare taxation.



The Pennsylvania House was considering a bill to increase fines and penalties via the Bureau of Professional Licensing.  Although the bureau handles everything from barber to massage therapist licensing, ARDA decided to show up to argue against increased penalties. Of course, this was going on while the AG was investigating Bluegreen for their sales practices.
http://www.pahouse.com/ProfessionalLicensure/documents/2-18-09  Hearing.pdf

Not sure why a law abiding industry would oppose increased penalties for people who don't follow the law?

"ARDA is the industry's Washington-based trade association and a major lobbying force on Capitol Hill and in Tallahassee. Federal records show that since 2006, ARDA has spent more than $1.1 million on Washington lobbyists to oppose such things as mortgage reform legislation, including the expansion of truth-in-lending requirements to timeshare buyers."

http://articles.sun-sentinel.com/20...y-fine-20100809_1_timeshare-fec-contributions


Someone asserted that ARDA opposed an increase in the rescission period from three to ten days, but I would have to write to the legislature to get supporting documentation.

None of those appear to be owner/buyer friendly positions.  Maybe you think otherwise.

But the answer to the OP is no, I do not give to ARDA.  Not planning on it.


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## BocaBoy (Nov 14, 2010)

zazz said:


> *Not sure why a law abiding industry would oppose increased penalties for people who don't follow the law?*
> 
> "ARDA is the industry's Washington-based trade association and a major lobbying force on Capitol Hill and in Tallahassee. Federal records show that since 2006, ARDA has spent more than $1.1 million on Washington lobbyists to oppose such things as mortgage reform legislation, including the *expansion of truth-in-lending requirements to timeshare buyers*."
> 
> None of those appear to be owner/buyer friendly positions.  Maybe you think otherwise.



1) Not helpful.  Need more information.  What were the existing penalties and what were the proposed ones?  Penalties must fit the crime.  Would you support 20 years in prison for speeding?  If not, does that mean you are a supporter of speeding?  I think not.

2) The TIL law has always applied to all mortgage loans, including mortgage loans to buy a timeshare.  Why should the TIL law be expanded to be stricter for those types of mortgages than for other mortgages?  The most important thing that ARDA-ROC does is lobby against laws designed to single out the timeshare industry (including owners) for special adverse treatment.


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## Tia (Nov 14, 2010)

Numismatist said:


> Agreed, but with the caveat that I STILL have not seen any property tax bills EVER!



It's a whole other story but USVI is only up to 2006 in  collecting taxes, so in no deed for 2006 = no tax bill yet.


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## dioxide45 (Nov 14, 2010)

BocaBoy said:


> 1) Not helpful.  Need more information.  What were the existing penalties and what were the proposed ones?  Penalties must fit the crime.  Would you support 20 years in prison for speeding?  If not, does that mean you are a supporter of speeding?  I think not.
> 
> 2) The TIL law has always applied to all mortgage loans, including mortgage loans to buy a timeshare.  Why should the TIL law be expanded to be stricter for those types of mortgages than for other mortgages?  The most important thing that ARDA-ROC does is lobby against laws designed to single out the timeshare industry (including owners) for special adverse treatment.



Boca, you never directly answered the OP's question. Given your gushing for the ARDA, I would expect your answer to be yes plus a supplemental donation?


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## BocaBoy (Nov 14, 2010)

dioxide45 said:


> Boca, you never directly answered the OP's question. Given your gushing for the ARDA, I would expect your answer to be yes plus a supplemental donation?



I just want some objectivity about ARDA-ROC's activities.  I own several timeshares and make one donation, not one for each week I own.  I have no problem with people not contributing based on their analysis of the facts.  My problem is with making up one's own facts.


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## EducatedConsumer (Nov 14, 2010)

EducatedConsumer said:


> Fron ARDA brochure:
> 
> 
> Who We Are
> ...



These facts (ARDA's very own description of themselves) pretty well speak for them self. No two ways about it, ARDA is "a trade association representing the vacation ownership and resort development industries."

If it walks like a duck and talks like a duck, it must be a duck.


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## dioxide45 (Nov 14, 2010)

BocaBoy said:


> I just want some objectivity about ARDA-ROC's activities.  I own several timeshares and make one donation, not one for each week I own.  I have no problem with people not contributing based on their analysis of the facts.  My problem is with making up one's own facts.



The problem is as winger indicated that the ARDA really doesn't provide a lot of information to owners when the contributions are asked for. Owners see a line item to give $10 to the ARDA. Many people blindly hand over the money not really knowing where it goes or how it is used.

I personally find it better to not give than to give and potentially give money to an entity that doesn't have 100% of my interests in mind.

As was mentioned, if there was legislation out there to extend rescission periods, what side of the argument would the ARDA be on?


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## OCsun (Nov 14, 2010)

I no longer contribute.


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## JimC (Nov 14, 2010)

If ARDA wants our money they have to justify their request.  And that is lacking so far.


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## BocaBoy (Nov 15, 2010)

dioxide45 said:


> The problem is as winger indicated that the ARDA really doesn't provide a lot of information to owners when the contributions are asked for. Owners see a line item to give $10 to the ARDA. Many people blindly hand over the money not really knowing where it goes or how it is used.
> 
> I personally find it better to not give than to give and potentially give money to an entity that doesn't have 100% of my interests in mind.
> 
> As was mentioned, if there was legislation out there to extend rescission periods, what side of the argument would the ARDA be on?


As I said before, ARDA-ROC is what timeshare owners contribute to, not ARDA directly.  ARDA-ROC's charter is specifically to represent the *owners*.  And their website details the issues they are working on, state by state.  I keep hearing a lot of assumptions and little recognition of the facts.


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## Numismatist (Nov 15, 2010)

BocaBoy said:


> As I said before, ARDA-ROC is what timeshare owners contribute to, not ARDA directly.  ARDA-ROC's charter is specifically to represent the *owners*.  And their website details the issues they are working on, state by state.  I keep hearing a lot of assumptions and little recognition of the facts.



I hear 'ya, but without doing a lot of research into it to discover if ARDA-ROC considers the developer or Marriott an 'owner' as well, and without researching whether or not ARDA-ROC's finances pass-through to ARDA or any other entity in any way, and with being skeptical of the whole timeshare industry, I choose to vote with ignorance and NOT pay my $10.  It's just not worth my time to dive in and find out so I can sleep easy knowing my $10 is doing something for me.

From the moment I walked out of the developer-salesperson meeting after signing the contract, I felt screwed.  I doubt ARDA or ARDA-ROC will ever make me feel un-screwed...


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## pedro47 (Nov 15, 2010)

Can someone tell us how much money ARDA rec'd/collect from t's owners in an average year?


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## Pens_Fan (Nov 15, 2010)

No, ney, never.


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## dioxide45 (Nov 15, 2010)

BocaBoy said:


> As I said before, ARDA-ROC is what timeshare owners contribute to, not ARDA directly.  ARDA-ROC's charter is specifically to represent the *owners*.  And their website details the issues they are working on, state by state.  I keep hearing a lot of assumptions and little recognition of the facts.



Here is what my-vacationclub.com indicates when you click on the ARDA link for more information in the Pay Maintenance Fees section of the site.



> It is the mission of the American Resort Development Association to foster and promote the growth of the industry and to serve its members through education; public relations and communications; legislative advocacy; membership development; and ethics enforcement.
> 
> The American Resort Development Association (ARDA) is the Washington, D.C.-based trade association representing the vacation ownership and resort development industries. Established in 1969 as the American Land Development Association, ARDA today has close to 1000 members, ranging from privately held companies to major corporations, in the U.S. and overseas.
> 
> ...



It doesn't seem that my $10 would be going toward the ARDA-ROC PAC. Also given the ARDA-ROC PAC's recent legal woes, it doesn't seem like this is the best organization to be giving our money to.

ARDA-ROC PAC Fined by FEC - August 2010.


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## gblotter (Jan 7, 2011)

So from the various pieces of information, it seems that ARDA represents timeshare developers, and ARDA-ROC represents timeshare owners.  As has been mentioned, the interests of those two groups may sometimes align and sometimes conflict.  Because of this, I would be more comfortable if the two were not affiliated in any way.



> ARDA-ROC stands for the American Resort Development Association-Resort Owners Coalition. Considered by ARDA to be the “first line of defense against legislation that may negatively impact timeshare owners and their well-being,” ARDA-ROC actively and pro-actively serves as a lobbying coalition to represent one million-plus timeshare owners across the US.
> 
> Members of ARDA-ROC voluntarily contribute $3-$5 a year that is used to fund a grassroots lobbying effort to preserve, protect, and enhance timeshare and vacation ownership. By uniting collectively, timeshare owners ensure that their voices will be heard and their interests considered, including acts of relevant consumer protection and positive timeshare industry changes. A goal of ARDA-ROC is to stand ready to fight the next legislative battle not the last one.
> 
> ...



I note the part that ARDA-ROC does not accept donations from corporations.  I assume this means that Marriott as an owner of unsold timeshare weeks cannot donate to ARDA-ROC.  However, I'm still concerned about the influence of ARDA over ARDA-ROC when divergent or conflicting interests are involved.  I seriously doubt that ARDA and ARDA-ROC are ever going to send separate lobbyists to argue opposing views of the same issue.  If ARDA has the larger warchest, I think we know which position will be advocated.



			
				dioxide45 said:
			
		

> Also given the ARDA-ROC PAC's recent legal woes, it doesn't seem like this is the best organization to be giving our money to.
> 
> ARDA-ROC PAC Fined by FEC - August 2010.



In previous years I have routinely donated my $10 to ARDA-ROC, but this news about the large FEC fine (largest since 2007) changed that.  Not interested making donations that will just be used to pay lawyer fees and FEC fines.

While it sometimes takes effort and patience to sift the facts from the opinions, this is exactly the kind of information that I value when reading tugbbs.


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## kjd (Jan 7, 2011)

Never have and never will.  Why would you pay someone to lobby against your interests?  Trade associations like ARDA do it all of the time.  You have no control over their agenda.  The developers do.  Save the money.


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## wof45 (Jan 7, 2011)

the whole donating to politicians for favors is just plain wrong.

we need to eliminate all of these contributions to politicians and require them all to take only a minimal amount of public financing.

I'm sure the public financing would be more than covered by eliminating the junk that they vote for to give to those that support them.


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## kds4 (Jan 7, 2011)

I have not paid. Interesting how they make the maintenance fee webpage appear like you have to pay the ARDA 'fee', just like your MFs.


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## Larry (Jan 7, 2011)

No!!! but they still list $3 balance due on my account even though I was told I am not required to pay


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## SueDonJ (Jan 7, 2011)

Larry, only $3?  Isn't the charge the same $10 for everybody regardless of resort?


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## vincenzi (Jan 7, 2011)

No.  I think the first year I paid it.  Then, I wised up.  Haven't paid it in years.


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## Larry (Jan 7, 2011)

SueDonJ said:


> Larry, only $3?  Isn't the charge the same $10 for everybody regardless of resort?



Summer Bay charges $3 on my points account. I have two contracts so was billed $3 per contract. That's the only resort that I own out of 8 resorts that billed me the $3 so I don't know anything about a $10 charge???????


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## SueDonJ (Jan 7, 2011)

Larry said:


> Summer Bay charges $3 on my points account. I have two contracts so was billed $3 per contract. That's the only resort that I own out of 8 resorts that billed me the $3 so I don't know anything about a $10 charge???????



Ah, I think all Marriott Weeks are $10.


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## luvgoldns (Jan 7, 2011)

Numismatist said:


> Let's see the results!
> 
> Just post in this thread a 'yes' or 'no'...
> 
> I'm no.


 
no       
........


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## camachinist (Jan 7, 2011)

I'd sooner roll up that 20 and smoke it 

no


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