# My First Trip to Europe!



## b2bailey (Aug 29, 2012)

I am retiring this year. Hallelujah! Just starting to plan a one month trip to Europe next spring or fall.

We have enough Delta FF miles for one RT ticket. (I wish they did one-way FF tickets like United does.) So we will need to buy one RT ticket.

We will depart ATL. My question -- I am looking to start in England, France or Spain and it seems CDG has the best price for a RT. I am very flexible at this time, so I am wondering if anyone knows of any other routing that would give the best price for a RT ticket to most anywhere in Europe. 

We also have United miles that we will use for the inter-european travel -- many of the locations are available at 12,500 one-way.

Thank you. Bonnie


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## elaine (Aug 29, 2012)

I think you can do an open jaw ticket with Delta (different return city). So, if that is the case, I would definitely fly out of a different city. It is easy to chunnel from London-PAris and British Air has tone of cheap flights to other European cities. For 1 month, I would also add a Med cruise for 1 week--very cost effective. Most cruises leave out of Rome or Barcelona--although in the Fall, you can also get great one ways from NE Europe (England, Netherlands, etc.) to Italy as they reposition the fleets. We love London, Barcelon, Florence, Rome, and anywhere on the French/Italian Riviera. All have perfect weather in the early Fall. Sept. is my favorite month. Spring can be a bit rainy.


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## Pompey Family (Aug 29, 2012)

Don't fly into the UK.  We have the most expensive air taxes in the world.  Choose one of the other European countries, once you're there the options for travelling elsewhere are so varied.  Taking the channel tunnel on foot is relatively inexpensive when compared to flying and sometimes catching a ferry or catamaran from France to England can be quite cheap.


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## Jimster (Aug 29, 2012)

*flights*

First of all I would suggest you fly on something besides Delta.  Use one of their partners for your award ticket.  I know you live in Atlanta and Delta is the logical choice but their award availability is horrible.

I think these days flying into Madrid is a good option.


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## Passepartout (Aug 29, 2012)

We are sort of tied to the Delta system as well. If you are going to fly them to Europe, better learn about CDG, because Delta/Air France is what you fly, and it's darn hard to avoid CDG. Charles De Gaul Airport is a capitol PITA! Spain/Portugal is a less expensive place to experience Europe. Greece and Turkey are inexpensive as well and 'feel' more exotic. Look at Barcelona, Madrid, Athens or Istanbul unless there is some single place you are hot to see. April/May or Sept/Oct are great times of year in the Mediterranean area. 

Have fun planning- That's the best part!

Jim


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## lvhmbh (Aug 30, 2012)

Would AVOID CDG if possible!!!   PITA is too kind!


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## Carolinian (Aug 30, 2012)

Very good points unless it is open jaw.  Into the UK is okay, as the tax is imposed on leaving by air, and is less  if it is a short haul flight.  Eurotar rail is another option to Europe from the UK.



Pompey Family said:


> Don't fly into the UK.  We have the most expensive air taxes in the world.  Choose one of the other European countries, once you're there the options for travelling elsewhere are so varied.  Taking the channel tunnel on foot is relatively inexpensive when compared to flying and sometimes catching a ferry or catamaran from France to England can be quite cheap.


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## Carolinian (Aug 30, 2012)

As to good value and exotic, I would suggest Poland (Krakow, Warsaw, Gdansk, Wroclaw) or Czech Republic (Prague, Cesky Kromlov) or Hungary (Budapest) or Croatia (Dubrovnik, Split, Zagreb). 




Passepartout said:


> We are sort of tied to the Delta system as well. If you are going to fly them to Europe, better learn about CDG, because Delta/Air France is what you fly, and it's darn hard to avoid CDG. Charles De Gaul Airport is a capitol PITA! Spain/Portugal is a less expensive place to experience Europe. Greece and Turkey are inexpensive as well and 'feel' more exotic. Look at Barcelona, Madrid, Athens or Istanbul unless there is some single place you are hot to see. April/May or Sept/Oct are great times of year in the Mediterranean area.
> 
> Have fun planning- That's the best part!
> 
> Jim


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## Passepartout (Aug 30, 2012)

Carolinian said:


> As to good value and exotic, I would suggest Poland (Krakow, Warsaw, Gdansk, Wroclaw) or Czech Republic (Prague, Cesky Kromlov) or Hungary (Budapest) or Croatia (Dubrovnik, Split, Zagreb).



Agreed. Western Europe is, while great, kind of 'worn out'. They are so used to American tourists that it's about like visiting any domestic area. Central and Eastern Europe is really ripe for exploration. Try Slovenia along with Venice and Croatia. It's wonderful.... Jim


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## cgeidl (Aug 30, 2012)

*See the rural areas.*

For a first trip seeing these three countries.Three days London,Three days Paris. Get train to the Riviera and pick up a rental car, Drive a circular trip of choice over to Spain and return the car to somewhere in France, If over I believe 17 days you can get a new car on a buy back plan that has very good rates and is fully insured from Pugeot.
It is about $1100 to pick up and return to many locations in France. To return to Barcelona would have an extra fee of $150 and Madrid $200.
You could return the car to France near the border and maybe save the drop off charge.On this plan there is no VAT.Take a look but by all means .We are going o not make what IMHO is a big mistake by only visiting the big cities.Driving around on you own gives you much freedom.
Have a great retirement trip. You are planning to go in the best season. Elain's suggestion about a cruise is worth of consideration. We leave for a couple weeks in Sicily followed by a RT cruise on the Celebrity for 12 days on October  2nd. Take a look at where you get to go and no bags to lug around,


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## beejaybeeohio (Aug 30, 2012)

*Save your miles!*



b2bailey said:


> We also have United miles that we will use for the inter-european travel -- many of the locations are available at 12,500 one-way.
> 
> Thank you. Bonnie



Congrats on retiring.  May I kindly suggest that you do NOT use miles for intra-europe travel?  When we used AA ff miles in '10, we paid 60k miles apeiece for an open jaw to LHR and return from Budapest. We used an additional 10k to fly flrom LHR to BUD via British air.  We could've booked that same leg for $100 each And the taxes at that time were no where near the exorbitant fee charged for London airports today.

Using low-cost European carriers, such as EasyJet, is a very economical way to travel between cities.  The earlier you book, the lower the cost.  Our flight earlier this summer from Venice to CDG was around $80 apiece including a 10 euro early boarding pass, a checked luggage fee and a fee for extra weight, which we purchased JIC since we were coming from a Celebrity cruise, but didn't need as we were well within the 44# limit.


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## NJDave (Aug 30, 2012)

You can get a free stopover on United with an open jaw.  For instance, you can fly to Paris then to Barcelona and back home for the same miles as a round trip to one city in Europe.


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## MaryH (Aug 31, 2012)

Lived and worked in Europe (london, Paris, Prague) for 10 years and still go back there to catch some theatre, food/wine and to see friends.

You can fly into London but best not to fly transatlantic out of London due to the departure tax.  If you have delta miles, AF may be an option but you would have to go through CDG.  Have been through CDG a few times recently but as destination not changing planes.

If you have never been to Europe and don't speak any of the languages, UK may be a good place to start.  London is one of my favourite cities and you can often book open jaw so you avoid the tax.  The theatre and the sites are great and with the tube you can get around easily.  

If you go to London to or from Paris, I would take the train / tunnel rather than fly since it takes you city center from city center.  If you do it weekdays, there are reduced price tickets during the middle of the day.


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## Carolinian (Aug 31, 2012)

I agree.  Check the schedules and fares of EasyJet, RyanAir, AerLingus, and Wizzair.  Also check SkyScanner.com as sometimes the legacy airlines get competitive these days.  For example, I have a RT for 3 next year Bucharest to London.  I got Wizzair on the return flights for ~$60 a seat all-in, but they wanted over $200 on the outbound, do I booked the return and checked Skyscanner, finding seats for ~$100 each on British Airways for the outbound.  If you value miles at two cents each, that is $160 RT for cash versus spending $500 worth of miles.  Using miles would have been wasteful.

Back before the BA takeover, I could use BMI miles intra-Europe efficiently as OW seats are either 4500 or 6000 miles, including all their Star Alliance partners.  I am on a trip burning BMI miles right now with flights on Lufthansa and SAS.




beejaybeeohio said:


> Congrats on retiring.  May I kindly suggest that you do NOT use miles for intra-europe travel?  When we used AA ff miles in '10, we paid 60k miles apeiece for an open jaw to LHR and return from Budapest. We used an additional 10k to fly flrom LHR to BUD via British air.  We could've booked that same leg for $100 each And the taxes at that time were no where near the exorbitant fee charged for London airports today.
> 
> Using low-cost European carriers, such as EasyJet, is a very economical way to travel between cities.  The earlier you book, the lower the cost.  Our flight earlier this summer from Venice to CDG was around $80 apiece including a 10 euro early boarding pass, a checked luggage fee and a fee for extra weight, which we purchased JIC since we were coming from a Celebrity cruise, but didn't need as we were well within the 44# limit.


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## x3 skier (Sep 1, 2012)

For a variation, check Icelandic Air. They have some good packages that permit a stopover in Reykjavik and then to Europe. You can even do an open jaw trip in addition. 

I just got back from 4 days in Iceland and it was great. Almost everyone speaks fluent English. If you do go, try Reykjavik by bike, an outstanding tour. 

Cheers


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## vacationhopeful (Sep 1, 2012)

Carolinian said:


> As to good value and exotic, I would suggest Poland (Krakow, Warsaw, Gdansk, Wroclaw) or Czech Republic (Prague, Cesky Kromlov) or Hungary (Budapest) or Croatia (Dubrovnik, Split, Zagreb).



Been to Krakow, Prague and Budapest twice each. Loved Krakow and Budapest; Prague was good, but loved Karlovy Vary, CZ more (was where Last Holiday and parts of Casino Royale were filmed). Over the years, have taken (separate) organized tours of Ireland and Great Britain. Done independant travel to France, Switzerland, and Austria - using a Eurorail pass. You are NOT going to see all of Europe in a month - but pick a region and explore. Use the cruise midtrip as a "break" from the stress of trying to feed and bed yourself every city and to change regions.

As for the time of the year - been there in November 3 times, March once and August once. November is usually a good time of the year for me to travel from work, but Europe is in season in the cities (operas open, museums with shows, and less competition for those budget travel accommodations and spaces on city tours). As I live in the MidAtlantic region of the US, the weather is about the same with daylight hours in Europe being a bit less.

Remember, a month is a nice tour but you still need to limit your area of travel - it does get confusing to be changing hotels every day or two. 

Enjoy your trip!


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## b2bailey (Sep 1, 2012)

*Thank you to everyone who replied.*

Your comments were exactly the information I wanted -- an assortment of ideas and suggestions.

I have a Marriott 7 night CAT 6 that I plan to use to be able to stay in one place for awhile, rather than moving so frequently. Any ideas for that?

And I hope to use a timeshare 'somewhere' to keep the travel from being dizzying. Hey, we might even stay five weeks!

Thanks for your help.


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## cgeidl (Sep 1, 2012)

*7 nights Marriott*

Use either for London or Paris.Can you split the nights and do 4 and 3?


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## jlwquilter (Sep 1, 2012)

I just spent 2 months in Europe. The trip worked amazingly well for us (us was mostly me and DD 13 with DH around for 3 of the 8 weeks).

We started in Dublin (timeshare stay) and spent a week. It was right for us but you could see and do it all in 4-5 days if desired. Really enjoyed Dublin alot. Great smaller city and a good place to 'get your feet wet'. Flew BMI from Dublin to London - it was a couple hundred bucks total for 2 tickets one way. No bad at all.

London is of course great with lots of things to see and do. Pricy though, especially with the exchange rate. You can save quite a bit of money on good tourist sites (2-4-1 deals) by using the online 2-4-1 website. Let me know if you need the link but you can find it easy thru Google or on TripAdvisor. We also spend an additonal week (timeshare stay) in the English countryside and did car (rental - got a great price by booking far ahead) trips to towns such as Cambridge, Stratford Upon Avon, Ely, etc.

Stayed in the north of England a few days with friends and took a day trip to Edinburgh. Would like to go back there someday and spend 4-5 days there. We didn't get to see the inside of anything but the free walking tour was fantastic.

Flew from Newcastle on EasyJet to Barcelona - again for a few hundred bucks total for 2 of us. Barcelone really is a great little city. Lots to see and do and set up well for the tourist industry. Spent a week there but could cut it down to 4-5 days.

Took Vueling from Barcelona to Madrid. Again, like $200 for both of us. Madrid was not my favorite city. It just didn't seem to offer that attractions and beauty and tourist industry set up that all the other cities had.

Another Vueling flight for around $200 got us both to Paris. We've been  twice before so did several day trips on the trains to chateaus and stuff. I've been in and out of CDG several times and never had any issues at all so I've not personally experienced the 'avaoid at all costs' situations others have. My DD and I even took the RER B from CDG (techinically about 100 yards away but easy to walk to pulling large suitcases) into Paris central, transferred to the 1 Line and off near our apartment. The only issue with the RER we had was it was rush hour and there's no where to put luggage. That was not a good time but we did it. If it hadn't been rush hour I think it would have been a much better experience.

I don't speak more than a few works in Spanish (or Catalan) or French but we had no issues getting around and asking for help when needed. It's amazing how much you can figure out with pointing! The true key to the wonderful success of our trip was the extensive research and planning I did beforehand.

Been to Prague for a weekend and it's a pretty city. But it's not ready for prime time toursit activity - which is wonderful if you can get around on your own (again, extensive research is the key).

Do the research and have a once in a lifetime trip to celebrate your retirement!

PS: some of the inter-Europe flights cost was well under $200 for both of us total. I just don't have the cost on the top of my head, but it was very reasonable.


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## Carolinian (Sep 3, 2012)

Some have mentioned the variations in costs between different countries.  As to Greece and Spain, once they got into the euro, the prices there got more in line with the rest of the eurozone, so they do not have the price advantage that they used to.

Those countries with their own currencies, which they are able to have some control over its value, may be more expensive (think Scandanavia and Switzerland) or less expensive (think eastern Europe) than the eurozone.  The three star hotel I am staying in right now in Krakow, Poland, half a block from Old Town, is cheaper than what a dorm bed in a hostel in Sweden or Norway, which countries I was in last week, would cost.

_The Economist_ magazine likes to annually compare the price of a Big Mac in various countries to compare cost of living.  When I get fast food, I am more inclined to Burger King or KFC so I will do that comparision.  I have bought a medium Big King meal (yes that is still on their menu in Europe) within the past 10 days in Sweden, Norway, Germany, and Poland.  The prices in US$ were - Poland $3.50, Germany $6.50, Sweden $9.00; Norway $17.00.  Generally, restaurant prices for better meals follow at about the same proportion.

If you like to spend some time on the coast, Croatia is a great destination, particularly the wonderful walled medieval city of Dubrovnik which for centuries was the independent city state of Ragusa, and Split, whose old town sits within the still standing walls of Roman Emporer Diocletian's palace.  The Croatian Tourist Board ran a great series of promotional ads with the slogan ''Croatia - The Mediterranian the Way it Once Was'' (of course they are technically on the Adriatic which joins the Mediteranian) in the European TV market.  Croatia, which uses its own currency, the kuna, is also cost-friendly.


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## Pompey Family (Sep 3, 2012)

Carolinian, thanks, it's always nice to be reminded why I don't go to Scandinavia!  I get the urge now and then to want to go and visit and then I'm always brought back down to Earth.


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## PStreet1 (Sep 3, 2012)

I don't think anyone has mentioned that if you fly European airlines, you will loose all your savings if you have large or heavy suitcases.  To fly the European airlines, you really need carry on luggage that isn't overweight.  Depending on your travel style, that can be a challenge.  We've done 3 1/2 weeks in Europe with only carry-ons, and we could have stayed longer with only what we took, but it definitely took planning and having easy to launder items.  We've also been to Europe with more luggage because for those trips, for various reasons, we couldn't travel light, or at least not light enough to take everything in a carry-on suitcase plus a personal item.

Taking that into account, you might want to think about open-jawed flights using your miles and some other mode of transportation within Europe.  Lots of rental companies have much lower rates if they lease the car to you for 17 days, and driving is not hazardous in the U.K. or Europe.

Trains, of course, are an option, but with a Europass they aren't particularly inexpensive either.  We've done much better buying point to point tickets.  However, even on trains you may experience luggage difficulties.  You won't be able to store a large bag overhead at your seat and other storage is not always secure.  In my opinion, you'll want a lock like a bicycle lock to at least rope your luggage that isn't right in your eye sight together so it will be more difficult for the luggage items to leave with someone else.

Anyway, no matter what you are planning for your transportation within Europe, pack light, the lighter the better.  It will make your life easier.


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## jlwquilter (Sep 3, 2012)

That is true - you have to plan your baggage to conform to the most restrictive airline regualtion. We did that and managed ok (although it was tight!) even though we were changing climates and needed costs and jeans as well as shorts. I made sure that each place we stayed had at least a washer.


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