# Improvements/Peeves



## ckg (Aug 5, 2008)

If you had the ear of the higher ups at Starwood, what would suggest to make using your membership better?  What are your biggest peeves ?  I own a different timeshare but have been researching SVO and I am interested in knowing what people don't like in the real world about using this membership.


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## DeniseM (Aug 5, 2008)

Welcome to TUG!   - you may be interested in the poll at the top of the board entitled: 
If I could go back and do Starwood all over again.

And this one:  Design the perfect timeshare


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## SDKath (Aug 5, 2008)

You are not one of the VPs of Starwood by any chance, are you?   

Oh nodge... this thread is for you.

Katherine


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## jerseygirl (Aug 5, 2008)

ckg said:


> If you had the ear of the higher ups at Starwood, what would suggest to make using your membership better?  What are your biggest peeves ?  I own a different timeshare but have been researching SVO and I am interested in knowing what people don't like in the real world about using this membership.





The punitive treatment of resale owners, which lowers ownership value.  This is primarily an issue for voluntary resort owners, but I suspect it impacts all owners as it leads to negative publicity and "chat."  The main competition (Marriott, Hyatt, Hilton, Disney) has enough confidence in their product line to not resort to such policies.
Reducing benefits, such as what happened with the elite program.  Bad form.
Marketing spin that attempts to turn the reduction of benefits into positive news.  
Inadequate reserve funding -- an organization as large (and well-funded, thanks to owners) as Starwood should figure out how to keep the resorts in top shape without special assessments.
Restrictive external exchange procedures.  All owners should have the ability to book any available week to which they are entitiled, and then do whatever they want with it (use it, rent it, give it to family friends, exchange it, let it sit empty).  On this same subject, owners of prime weeks should have the ability to earn Accomodation Certificates (bonus weeks) with II.
Unrealistic StarOption values (e.g., a summer 2-BR at Harborside is equal to a 2-BR in Orlando) and the failure to correct obvious errors once detected.  Timeshare owner behavior does not necessarily equal hotel guest behavior, something that should probably have been understood prior to getting into the developer game.  

I'm sure I'll think of more after I have my coffee!


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## barndweller (Aug 5, 2008)

> The punitive treatment of resale owners, which lowers ownership value.



I heartily agree with this. As a resale owner I am not part of the "network" yet I have to deal with the Starwood Reps when I call Interval. It doesn't matter which of my timeshares I am placing an exchange request against or have a question about. I don't particularly want to only deal with Starwood all the time but am forced to do so. Unlike Marriott, Sheraton managed resorts never get ACs at II so more often than not, I deposit them with SFX or TPI rather than II. 

So far, I haven't had the problem that SVN owners experience with Starwood choosing their deposit week at II. I think that policy really stinks.

The very large jump in MF this year was a bit disconcerting as well.


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## Loriannf (Aug 5, 2008)

*This one's easy*

1)  An on-line, accurate, real-time reservations system that shows availability for StarOption exchanges;

2)  An "open" explanation of the wait-list and the ability to find out where you are on it.  Getting different explanations each time, and the inability of the call center reps to give you information, is just maddening.

Lori


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## tomandrobin (Aug 5, 2008)

Correction of the starpoint conversion to keep pace with inflation, like the hotel side of the program.


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## LisaRex (Aug 5, 2008)

The big 2:

*Not reimbursing the HOA for rentals!!! I don't mind that Starwood takes control of any unreserved inventory within 90 days, as I think an empty property is not a good thing. But the fact that Starwood pockets the rental and doesn't give ANYTHING to SVO towards the wear and tear and upkeep of the property is wildly unfair. In fact, IMO it borderlines on usurious and I believe that the HOA could sue Starwood over this practice if the HOAs ever became true HOAs (e.g. representative of the OWNERS as opposed to Starwood pawns).  

*SVN controlling deposits into external exchangers.  SVN markets their properties as "true, deeded ownerships" but then doesn't treat them as true, deeded ownerships.  Starwood: deposit the season that their owners PAID for.


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## Twinkstarr (Aug 5, 2008)

Loriannf said:


> 1)  An on-line, accurate, real-time reservations system that shows availability for StarOption exchanges;
> 
> 2)  An "open" explanation of the wait-list and the ability to find out where you are on it.  Getting different explanations each time, and the inability of the call center reps to give you information, is just maddening.
> 
> Lori



Ol' Wyndham has an online system and it seems to work. 

Don't understand why Starwood and DVC can't figure something out(more likely they don't want to spend the $$).


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## formerhater (Aug 5, 2008)

Like others, I want real time online reservations and starpoint value adjustments to coincide with adjustments made on the SPG side.  

I've mentioned this before, but I'd like to see the SVN trading window moved from 8 months to 10 or 11 months (preferrably 11).  We plan trips years in advance and hate losing 3 months to buy our plane tix.  I realize that not everyone agrees with this one, but I think most of us here are reserving our home resort at 9am ET one year out so the net effect on home resort owners who have it together would be nada.  

And how about some new resorts outside of Colorado???


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## LisaRex (Aug 5, 2008)

formerhater said:


> And how about some new resorts outside of Colorado???



Aruba sounds nice. 

Sorry, I couldn't resist.


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## tomandrobin (Aug 5, 2008)

formerhater said:


> I've mentioned this before, but I'd like to see the SVN trading window moved from 8 months to 10 or 11 months (preferrably 11).  We plan trips years in advance and hate losing 3 months to buy our plane tix.  I realize that not everyone agrees with this one, but I think most of us here are reserving our home resort at 9am ET one year out so the net effect on home resort owners who have it together would be nada.



This can't happen, only because of those early resorts that sold fixed/float weeks.


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## tomandrobin (Aug 5, 2008)

LisaRex said:


> Aruba sounds nice.



:deadhorse: 

(but on a side note: I wish it would happen too!)


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## CeeWoo (Aug 5, 2008)

Jerseygirl, where have you been all my life?



jerseygirl said:


> The punitive treatment of resale owners, which lowers ownership value.  This is primarily an issue for voluntary resort owners, but I suspect it impacts all owners as it leads to negative publicity and "chat."  The main competition (Marriott, Hyatt, Hilton, Disney) has enough confidence in their product line to not resort to such policies.
> Reducing benefits, such as what happened with the elite program.  Bad form.
> Marketing spin that attempts to turn the reduction of benefits into positive news.
> Inadequate reserve funding -- an organization as large (and well-funded, thanks to owners) as Starwood should figure out how to keep the resorts in top shape without special assessments.
> ...


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## Cathyb (Aug 5, 2008)

My beefs 
1.  Changing the 'rules' *after *early purchasers have bought (inventing mandatory vs. voluntary categories).
2.  Giving almost zero notice to up and coming HOA meetings.  The notice is dated about 6 weeks before but mailed a week before -- every year!
3.  Shows no interest in owner after they buy.
4.  No ROFR to keep prices up on some of their properties (WMH for one)


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## Westin5Star (Aug 5, 2008)

I wisht that SVO had more properties with swim up bars!


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## clsmit (Aug 5, 2008)

I agree that SVO should treat the resale owners better. They clearly have chosen a Starwood property over all the competition in that area for a reason. So they have huge upsell potential. I gotta believe that it's cheaper to staff a call center in Orlando with people trying to upsell the current resale owners than trying to sell new suckers prospects at the current properties.

"Hello, Mr. Smith? How are you today? Thank you so much for your ownership at Sheraton Broadway Plantation. Do you like staying there? Great! It's one of my favorites, too. I see that you have a 1 bedroom every other year ownership. I have a great deal on a 1 bedroom for the opposite year in Orlando that would allow you to travel there when you're not going to Myrtle Beach, and you'd be in the Starwood network to trade both your properties within the entire network. That would allow you to go to places like Cancun, the Bahamas, and Hawaii instead. How would that sound?"


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## gravitar (Aug 5, 2008)

'The ability to carry forward unused StarOptions. Maybe for a small fee and free for elites.


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## skim118 (Aug 6, 2008)

gravitar said:


> 'The ability to carry forward unused StarOptions. Maybe for a small fee and free for elites.




hope not;  I like the existing system & do not want to open a new can of worms.


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## skim118 (Aug 6, 2008)

LisaRex said:


> The big 2:
> 
> *SVN controlling deposits into external exchangers.  SVN markets their properties as "true, deeded ownerships" but then doesn't treat them as true, deeded ownerships.  Starwood: deposit the season that their owners PAID for.



I understand the frustration regarding this rule;  on the other hand we like this rule because it gives priority to owners that want to actually use the unit as opposed to those who want to make the reservations on popular weeks without having any intention of staying in it & then turn it over Interval International for "increased trading power"  ala Marriott.

These are the SVN rules & are clearly spelled out and we are happy with the results.


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## vacationtime1 (Aug 6, 2008)

gravitar said:


> 'The ability to carry forward unused StarOptions. Maybe for a small fee and free for elites.



The problem with carrying StarOptions forward is that it can quickly create a situation where there are more owners with a right to reserve weeks than there are available weeks.  For example, if 10% of owners carry StarOptions forward, the next year there are 57 owners competing for 52 weeks.


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## BradC (Aug 6, 2008)

vacationtime1 said:


> The problem with carrying StarOptions forward is that it can quickly create a situation where there are more owners with a right to reserve weeks than there are available weeks.


I understand the concern, but it seems like it would eventually hit some sort of equilibrium.  There's no reason to think that if 10% carry forward this year, you wouldn't have roughly the same number carrying forward next year, too.

Another option is to somehow allow more borrowing ahead to also offset the carrying forward.  But I would expect that more people will carry forward than borrow ahead, just because of the generally procrastinating nature of many owners.


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## DeniseM (Aug 6, 2008)

BradC said:


> Another option is to somehow allow more borrowing ahead to also offset the carrying forward.  But I would expect that more people will carry forward than borrow ahead, just because of the generally procrastinating nature of many owners.



Even more significant is the fact that you have to pay your MF in advance to borrow SO's.  If I can save them up for free or borrow them by paying a double MF one year, I'm going to save!


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## LisaRex (Aug 6, 2008)

skim118 said:


> I understand the frustration regarding this rule;  on the other hand we like this rule because it gives priority to owners that want to actually use the unit as opposed to those who want to make the reservations on popular weeks without having any intention of staying in it & then turn it over Interval International for "increased trading power"  ala Marriott.



A lot of folks reserve the most popular weeks already only to rent them out.  I don't have a problem with that because if they didn't pay for the right to book that week, they wouldn't be able to reserve it.  It just means that if I want a popular week, I have to reserve early.  That's the nature of timesharing, I guess.


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## nanette0269 (Aug 7, 2008)

simple me...i just wish they had an online reservation system.  i often make plans late in the evening when the kids are asleep, which is impossible for their system.  it also allows me more of the what-if scenarios that i am able to do with my hyatt week.


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## grgs (Aug 7, 2008)

skim118 said:


> I understand the frustration regarding this rule;  on the other hand we like this rule because it gives priority to owners that want to actually use the unit as opposed to those who want to make the reservations on popular weeks without having any intention of staying in it & then turn it over Interval International for "increased trading power"  ala Marriott.
> 
> These are the SVN rules & are clearly spelled out and we are happy with the results.



I'm inclined to agree.  At least with Starwood, I've never heard of an owner being shut out from making a reservation at their home resort at the 12 mos. mark.  That seems to be an ongoing issue with some of the Marriotts.  

It does upset me that Starwood tries (and often succeeds) in applying SVN rules to non-SVN weeks.

On another note, I'd like to know where the money goes for things like cabana rentals.  Our first year at Kierland, there was no charge for them, and we enjoyed using them.  I understand they now charge a rental fee for them.  I assume the Owners Association pays for the cabanas?  If so, I resent that as an owner I have to pay a rental fee on top of having paid for the cabana in the first place.  If the OA is paying for the cabanas, does the rental income come back to the OA?  Or does Starwood pocket that money?

Glorian


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## nodge (Aug 7, 2008)

ckg said:


> If you had the ear of the higher ups at Starwood, what would suggest to make using your membership better?  What are your biggest peeves ?





SDKath said:


> Oh nodge... this thread is for you.



Hmmm.  I'm not sure I can add much more beyond what has already been said so far, but here it goes.  Hang on! 

SVO’s Problem:

In my mind, most of SVO’s problems originate from a common source – its upper management, which treats all of us existing SVO owners (both developer and resale purchasers alike) with pure, unbridled, and unchecked contempt while it blindly pursues short term financial gains at the expense of long term survivability of its program.

SVO management thinks that it can do and say anything to us owners with impunity.  

Examples of these activities include:

1.  Inducing sales by promising owners who buy additional developer weeks that they will be entitled to upgraded accomodations (if available), but then cancelling that benefit within weeks and some cases days of these customers’ new developer purchases.

2.  Promising real-time, on-line inventory checking and booking nearly 10 years ago, but still not delivering it.

3.  Deflating existing owner StarOption values by increasing the StarOptions required to stay at new resorts.

4.  Dumping over 1 billion Orlando StarOptions into the system, thereby making internal exchanging into non-Orlando resorts that much harder for existing SVN members (but also doling out those dumped StarOptions in small 76,000 increments, thereby also screwing those single week Orlando owners out of internally trading into full sized units at prime resorts).

5.  Routinely implementing double digit percentage annual maintenance fee increases, and its SVO crony-controlled HOA’s at some SVO resorts still calling for multi-thousand dollar special assessments.

6.  Piling its upper management “team” with do-nothing VP’s with outrageous titles like (and I’m not making these up), VP of “strategic technology,”  VP of “customer experience,”  and my personal favorite VP of “owners services.”  (The last title is more-or-less an inside joke, because that VP ‘s job actually involves serving as the SVO mouthpiece for REMOVING services for owners and occasionally trying to sell us all $25,000 African safaris at full price.)

More troubling to me though is how SVO management routinely makes major changes to its program while maintaining a code of stoic silence about these changes to us owners and potential new customers.

Examples of these activities include:

1.  Silently switching from selling mandatory resorts to selling voluntary resorts.  Here is how we owners were able to figure it out.  To this date, SVO hasn’t offered one official announcement of this MAJOR, MAJOR change to its system.  Moreover, SVO salesfolks certainly don’t go out of their way to explain the consequences of this change to any new customers either.

2.  Announcing new developments like Aruba (and I bet Cabo and maybe even WKORV-NN are seriously at risk of facing the same fate), but then arbitrarily cancelling those projects with absolutely no notice or explanation.

The weird thing is that even though SVO upper management refuses to engage us or even look us in the eye, it still apparently cares (at least in a passive, really creepy, dark corner, orange eating, lurker sort of way) what we think of it.  So much so, that it monitors our postings here daily.

SVO management is the idiot savant of the timeshare industry.  It can build and sell top notch resorts in world class locations, but can’t manage its way out of a paper bag when it comes to day-to-day customer/owner service or even basic owner respect and honesty issues.  To date, it appears that SVO management is entirely OK with that.  Given the current economy and us owners’ need to have SVO survive in order to preserve our own interests, I’m just not sure that we owners can afford to be OK with it much longer.

Proposed Solution:

It’s not all bad.  SVO maintains some very nice and enjoyable resorts.  Plus, some of us get a leather luggage tag from SVO every couple of years or so.   

Here is what I would do to fix things at SVO and have fun while remaining up with the current times while doing it too.  Hear me out on this.  

I’d do a reality TV series involving all of SVO’s top management.  All of the VP’s would live together in a resort community, like say . . . Orlando. . . , and have to run a company, like say . . . .SVO, all under the watchful eye of the TV cameras.  Someone would also have to track down the current SVO president on the golf course.  He should probably make at least one appearance during the taping season just to prove that he indeed exists.

Each week, the VP’s would get a simple task to perform, like say. . . implementing an online reservation system or improving the elite benefits without destroying the entire program, and we’d all get to watch them flounder around and waste their time and our money like they are all currently doing anyway.  Then, at the end of each episode, we owners would get to vote one or two VP’s out of management by calling a special 800 phone number.

We’d whittle down the current pile of useless VP’s to a manageable few hundred or so in preparation for the final episode, which would be taped in Vegas or at Radio City Music Hall in NYC.  We’d hire three people known for having better customer service than the current SVO top management to serve as judges.  I’m currently thinking a DMV worker, any Continental Airlines’ flight attendant, and maybe “PUCK” from that M-TV show “Real World.”

During the final episode, the then surviving VP’s would each come on stage one-by-one and say their names, their official titles, and what they “do” for SVO.  We’d get to watch the judges all roll their eyes as the “VP of customer experience” tries to explain how his job is different from the “VP of owner services.”  I’m thinking that a video montage showing how owners are currently forced to book their rooms by calling at 6 AM (Pacific Time) before panning to the “VP of Strategic Technology” could be nicely worked into the show.    

At the end of each VP’s moment before the judges, the judges would then give each of them either a number 1 or a number 2, but not tell them what each number means.  To build drama, the show would have color commentators trying to guess what the numbers mean based on who is being placed into each category.  “Well, Jim.  Everyone knows that the VP of Dishwasher Soap Selection was a real slacker this year.  So, I’m sure the other Number 1’s are not happy to have her in their group.”

The big finale would be before a packed theater, with the VP’s all on stage.  All of the property managers from each resort would be there and get front row seats in the audience.  Owners and their families would fill the remaining seats in the audience.

The lights would dim, and the judges would call the show to order. Dramatic music would start to play.   “PUCK” would call the “number 2’s” forward and ask them to stand in a line at the front of the stage.  The volume of the music would increase.  The camera would pan the faces of the “number 2’s.”  The volume of the music would increase again.  The “number 2’s” would look at each other.  The camera would then pan the “number 1’s.”  Pause for commercial.

Following the commercial, they’d do the whole panning and music thing again just for good measure.  Then the DMV worker judge would say “NUMBER 2’s!”  “YOU’RE SERVICES WITH SVO ARE NO LONGER NEEDED!”  “EXIT THE STAGE IMMEDIATELY!”  

Pan to the shocked face of the former “VP of Toner Cartridges” as he exits the stage.  Then pan to the relieved face of the “VP of Parking Space Line Painting” in the “Number 1’s” line.  

Wait!  What’s this?  Why is the dramatic music starting again?

Pan the line of “Number 1’s” who are starting to look a little concerned.  Increase the volume of the music.  Another commercial.

Back from the commercial.  Do more music and panning.  Pan the front row property managers too just for fun. Why not?  It’s an hour show.

This time the Continental Airlines Flight attendant judge says:  

 “NUMBER 1’s” 

 “YOU’RE SERVICES WITH SVO ARE NO LONGER NEEDED!  EXIT THE STAGE IMMEDIATELY!”  (Pan to a crushed VP exiting the stage.)

PUCK immediately stands up and asks all of the property managers in the front row to stand up.

He says:

“PROPERTY MANAGERS!”

"YOU HAVE BEEN ABLE TO RUN YOUR RESPECTIVE RESORTS SURPRISINGLY WELL DESPITE BEING MANAGED BY THESE NUMB-NUTS EXITING THE STAGE!”  

“CLEARLY YOU HAVE WHAT IT TAKES TO RUN A FORTUNE 500 COMPANY!”

“YOU ARE NOW THE TOP MANAGEMENT OF SVO!  PLEASE JOIN US ON THIS STAGE!”

The crowd cheers.  Balloons and confetti fall.  

Commercial.

-nodge (I think I may be watching way too much TV)


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## DeniseM (Aug 7, 2008)

Nodge, that was one of your better efforts! :hysterical: 

BTW - getting much done at work this morning?


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## LisaRex (Aug 7, 2008)

nodge, you completely crack me up.  Am I dreaming or was part of that from "Design Star"?

The way things are going, I seriously wouldn't be surprised if SVO wasn't on the chopping block as we speak. With stalled sales, new developments canceled, the cost of building materials through the roof, too many VPs who like to use corporate jets...I can't imagine SVO is making much money for Starwood right now. 

And where I come from (a fortune 50 company), divisions that aren't contributing to a healthy profit margin are put up for bid and sold to a third party.


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## tomandrobin (Aug 7, 2008)

I doubt that SVO will be put on the market anytime soon. Sales were down for the first half of the year, but they were not in the red. Once Lagunamar comes on line this month (so they say) that should help increase new sales totals and average cost per unit sold. 

If they hold the "owners updates" at the pool bar, sales could really improve!


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## Transit (Aug 7, 2008)

I wonder if they have a VP for the maintenance of the "NODGE FILE".


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## nodge (Aug 7, 2008)

LisaRex said:


> Am I dreaming or was part of that from "Design Star"?



Yep.  I saw a re-run of the final show on Monday night.  I was also inspired by "America's Got Talent" and of course, "The Apprentice."  

I think that it's just a matter of time before we are all on a reality TV show.  I just hope I don't have to eat any bugs when it's my turn.

-nodge


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## vacationtime1 (Aug 7, 2008)

LisaRex said:


> The way things are going, I seriously wouldn't be surprised if SVO wasn't on the chopping block as we speak. With stalled sales, new developments canceled, the cost of building materials through the roof, too many VPs who like to use corporate jets...I can't imagine SVO is making much money for Starwood right now.



I'm quite sure SVO is doing just fine.  Don't forget that the salaries and corporate jets for the VP of strategic improvement, the VP of customer experience, and even the VP of tracking nodge are all overhead costs which SVO pushes onto us, the SVN property owners, as part of our annual MF's.  And they probably add a mark-up to those costs for profit.  If Starwood did not have such fabulous properties, I would sell.

My suggestion for improving Starwood would be to add some properties in places to which I could drive (Tahoe, Santa Barbara, San Diego, Monterey).  I know that may sound provincial for someone in San Francisco, but that makes more sense than a second property in Palm Desert, a second property on Kauai, and a third property on Maui.


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## SDKath (Aug 7, 2008)

I am with you Robert.  Add more in places they DON'T have currently and are desired.  I would LOVE a Santa Barbara TS.  I don't even think SB has more than 1 from any company.  It could be above the city in the rolling foothills...

San Diego would be great.  Don't forget Sonoma too!

Katherine


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## jerseygirl (Aug 7, 2008)

Nodge -- you crack me up!  Very well done !!!!!!!!!


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## pointsjunkie (Aug 7, 2008)

nodge, we have all been waiting for your comments on this thread and you out did yourself:hysterical: :hysterical: 

i would love to see resorts in New England area, bermuda, st. lucia, st. martaan,turks and caicos, and of course the beloved Aruba.

barbra


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## tomandrobin (Aug 7, 2008)

pointsjunkie said:


> i would love to see resorts in New England area, bermuda, st. lucia, st. martaan,turks and caicos, and of course the beloved Aruba.
> 
> barbra



Yes, no, yes, yes and *Hell Yeah*! 

There are no II resorts in Bermuda, has to be a reason.


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## clsmit (Aug 7, 2008)

A resort on the Eastern Shore of Maryland would be nice, as well as something within an hour of DC. Then maybe something near Asheville, NC (Westin at the Biltmore?). It's too far for me to drive to Sonoma.


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## tomandrobin (Aug 8, 2008)

clsmit said:


> A resort on the Eastern Shore of Maryland would be nice, as well as something within an hour of DC. Then maybe something near Asheville, NC (Westin at the Biltmore?). It's too far for me to drive to Sonoma.



You really want a Starwood timeshare around Ocean City? I live about 2 hour drive away and we hardly ever go to OC, especially for a weeks vacation.


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## pointsjunkie (Aug 8, 2008)

i would just love someplace on the east coast where we can drive to.


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## Transit (Aug 8, 2008)

I'd love to see a Starwood resort in KEYWEST


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## tomandrobin (Aug 8, 2008)

Key West would be great! 

I think Hyatt has four Key Kest locations!

Sub Tropical, in the US (no passports), cheap airfare to Miami/Ft Lauderdale!


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## califgal (Aug 8, 2008)

> My suggestion for improving Starwood would be to add some properties in places to which I could drive (Tahoe, Santa Barbara, San Diego, Monterey). I know that may sound provincial for someone in San Francisco, but that makes more sense than a second property in Palm Desert, a second property on Kauai, and a third property on Maui.



I fully agree, condsidering what flights now cost for Hawaii and FF flights becoming less available.


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## SDKath (Aug 8, 2008)

califgal said:


> I fully agree, condsidering what flights now cost for Hawaii and FF flights becoming less available.



I am thinking maybe they need to "scale down" the size of the resorts they plan and make more locations instead.  Lagunamar looks gigantic!  I am not a big high rise fan, which is why I don't do Marriott so much.

How about smaller TSs in more places....  And stick to 3 stories or less.

Katherine


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## tomandrobin (Aug 8, 2008)

The Aruba resort was suppose to be high rise. 

Alot of the other chains have high rises. Look at Marriott in Hawaii, DVC at MK, Hyatt at Orlando. Wait until phase 3 of HRA is released.


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## califgal (Aug 8, 2008)

One of the reasons we love WKORV so much is that it is "low rise".  I think SVO should stick with this plan ..low rise and high quality.  When I'm there I easlily can imagine it's my own condo!  Unlike ther Marriott which looks like a mega resort.


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## Transit (Aug 8, 2008)

tomandrobin said:


> Wait until phase 3 of HRA is released.



Is that decided yet that HRA 3 is a high rise?


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## Ken555 (Aug 8, 2008)

SDKath said:


> I am thinking maybe they need to "scale down" the size of the resorts they plan and make more locations instead.



I agree! 

And, while it may require coordination at Starwood (I know, I know...asking too much) but I think SVN should buy a few floors of each Westin Resort Hotel they're building... as mentioned in other threads, there is a new Westin building built in Sonoma, and they just opened the new one in Mammoth. Seems they would be able to make more $$$ and diversify the SVN options much more rapidly this way.


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## pointsjunkie (Aug 8, 2008)

Ken555 said:


> I agree!
> 
> And, while it may require coordination at Starwood (I know, I know...asking too much) but I think SVN should buy a few floors of each Westin Resort Hotel they're building... as mentioned in other threads, there is a new Westin building built in Sonoma, and they just opened the new one in Mammoth. Seems they would be able to make more $$$ and diversify the SVN options much more rapidly this way.



fabulous idea.


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## DavidnRobin (Aug 8, 2008)

Ken555 said:


> ...there is a new Westin building built in Sonoma,...



A Westin being built in Sonoma!? - where/when?

added: I just googled it - this must be for the fractional ownership condos being built...?


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## Ken555 (Aug 8, 2008)

DavidnRobin said:


> A Westin being built in Sonoma!? - where/when?
> 
> added: I just googled it - this must be for the fractional ownership condos being built...?



http://www.verasanapa.com/

I think you saw this link before. It's full ownership, I think, not fractional. Still, seems like it would make sense to me to convert a few floors (or a building/wing) to SVN... they don't even need a sales center there... but, it makes too much sense for Starwood to do this...


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## SDKath (Aug 8, 2008)

Wow, that lobby looks spectacular!  With 2BR and 2BR LOs, I bet they had that as a "fallback" scenario -- to convert to TSs.  They can't do just a few though.  If demand is too high, people will be mad not to be able to ever get in via SVN.  I think they'd have to have a whole building devoted to TSs.  But that's easy enough.  It's the same model they are using at Riverfront, which also looks gorgeous.  There, the 2 bedroom residences are going for $1.5M++.

Katherine


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## Ken555 (Aug 9, 2008)

Yup and it's certainly easier to sell a $1.5M unit once, rather than 50 times. But, I'm not sure it's a fall-back scenario for them. This is a similar design they've used elsewhere (though it's updated, of course). Whistler is very similar, for instance (and has a Whiski Jack t/s there, but not SVN...go figure...). 

I like the idea of a boutique timeshare division for SVN in these hotels, that would obviously have limited availability. And why not? It's another chance for SVN to devalue our Options! 
:deadhorse:


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## jerseygirl (Aug 9, 2008)

I like the idea a lot, but I think it would harm their sales of full/fractionals if Starwood turned some floors into timeshares.  The target markets are from two different demographic groups, for the most part (yes, there are timeshare owners who _could_ buy a $1.5MM unit -- but I suspect they're in the minority).  The exclusivity is part of the draw of a $1.5MM unit -- take that away, and it's not so attractive.

Hyatt has a hybrid of the model you're suggesting.  I don't think you can buy just a week or two at their fractional properties, but when fractional owners want to visit a Hyatt timeshare resort, reciprocal trading rights are then offered to the timeshare owners.  But, the fractional owners are in the drivers' seats.


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## califgal (Aug 9, 2008)

> It's full ownership, I think, not fractional



It is full ownership.  I looked into it when I first heard about it.  The first phase sold out immediatley, I think a studio went for $425,000 starting price.  The owners can only stay in their units for 30 or 35 days per year!  The city wants to collect  maximum hotel taxes.  Owners can put their units in the rental pool, but the split is not very favorable to the owners.


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## Grandmama (Aug 9, 2008)

This place is owned by Intrawest and has nothing to do with Starwood except that they are licensed to use the Westin name.  We live close and I was so excited to think there might even be a Starwood Hotel north of San Francisco.  Darn!


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## SDKath (Aug 9, 2008)

califgal said:


> It is full ownership.  I looked into it when I first heard about it.  The first phase sold out immediatley, I think a studio went for $425,000 starting price.  The owners can only stay in their units for 30 or 35 days per year!  The city wants to collect  maximum hotel taxes.  Owners can put their units in the rental pool, but the split is not very favorable to the owners.



How can it be full ownership and only be available 35 days of the year?  Isn't that what defines a fractional?  Just wondering...

K


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## jerseygirl (Aug 9, 2008)

Kath -- It's a condo hotel -- I think owners get 29 days of usage, then the unit is income producing the balance of the year.  There are resales available if you hunt around!!


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## Ken555 (Aug 10, 2008)

Grandmama said:


> This place is owned by Intrawest and has nothing to do with Starwood except that they are licensed to use the Westin name.  We live close and I was so excited to think there might even be a Starwood Hotel north of San Francisco.  Darn!



It's the same in Mammoth. You will be able to use StarPoints to go there.


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## pointsjunkie (Aug 10, 2008)

jerseygirl said:


> Kath -- It's a condo hotel -- I think owners get 29 days of usage, then the unit is income producing the balance of the year.  There are resales available if you hunt around!!



that's the way the cove works at the atlantis in the bahamas. they share in the rental fees the rest of the year.


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## Grandmama (Aug 10, 2008)

Ken555 said:


> It's the same in Mammoth. You will be able to use StarPoints to go there.




Thanks for the info.
I called the sales office for the development and they said they would not be in the Starwood network at all, so I called SVN and they said it would be open in Jan. 2009 and we could use SPs.  It will be a Cat. 4 hotel and 10,000 SPs a night.  So we will have a place in the wine country to go to.   

We don't have many places in northern CA outside of San Francisco.  I wish they had some places on the coast without having to go to Southern CA.


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## Ken555 (Aug 10, 2008)

Grandmama said:


> Thanks for the info.
> I called the sales office for the development and they said they would not be in the Starwood network at all,



Typical uninformed sales... Though it's true that some "Starwood" properties are not eligible to reserve with StarPoints. 



> so I called SVN and they said it would be open in Jan. 2009 and we could use SPs.  It will be a Cat. 4 hotel.



Great! I had thought it might be a Cat 5 like Mammoth, but Cat 4 is fantastic news. I'll be in SF for a conference in January, and if this hotel is open by then I'll try to get there for a few days...


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## jerseygirl (Aug 21, 2008)

Bringing this thread back ....

From an email I received from the Hilton Club (where you can already book online, with the exception of some of the affiliates):

_The new online booking engine, aptly named "Revolution," will be available at hgvclub.com in the next few weeks.

This booking engine is designed with a sliding calendar allowing Members to select their preferred destination then simply "slide" to view availability for an entire year. A revolutionary feature indeed!_

Very cool indeed!


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## tomandrobin (Aug 21, 2008)

jerseygirl said:


> Bringing this thread back ....
> 
> From an email I received from the Hilton Club (where you can already book online, with the exception of some of the affiliates):
> 
> ...




*sigh*


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## jerseygirl (Aug 21, 2008)

I like how Members is capitalized too .... with Starwood, it would be members.


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## taffy19 (Aug 21, 2008)

Transit said:


> I wonder if they have a VP for the maintenance of the "NODGE FILE".


:hysterical:


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## taffy19 (Aug 21, 2008)

califgal said:


> One of the reasons we love WKORV so much is that it is "low rise".  I think SVO should stick with this plan ..low rise and high quality.  When I'm there I easlily can imagine it's my own condo!  Unlike ther Marriott which looks like a mega resort.


True but high rise towers have many ocean view condos and that's what people want on the beach and real estate is so expensive on the coast so long there is easy parking for everyone which is law today and enough beach to enjoy.


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## Ken555 (Aug 22, 2008)

Grandmama said:


> I called SVN and they said it would be open in Jan. 2009



Seems they're ahead of schedule! 

From www.spg.com:



> Now accepting reservations for arrival on or after *September 26, 2008.*Nestled on the banks of the Napa River, in the heart of North America’s premiere wine growing region, The Westin Verasa Napa is a serene, relaxing haven seamlessly blended with natural beauty and rich cultural heritage. Explore Napa's beautifully restored architectural gems, attend outstanding performances in the renowned Napa Valley Opera House, frequent fine art exhibitions, drop in on jam sessions, and sample world famous cuisine.
> At The Westin Verasa Napa, each of our stylish suites encourages you to unwind with soft Heavenly® Beds and inspiring views of historic downtown or the Napa River. Channel your energy in our 24-hour WestinWORKOUT® fitness facility or dive into the calming essences of our heated outdoor pool. Indulge in award-winning cuisine at La Toque or savor a nightcap at our newly designed wine bar—Bank Café and Bar.
> At The Westin Verasa Napa you will be transformed mentally, physically and spiritually so that you can be at your best.


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## DavidnRobin (Aug 22, 2008)

Ken555 said:


> Seems they're ahead of schedule!
> 
> From www.spg.com:



Wow! This is fantastic for us Bay Area folks to visit the wine country.  While I wasn't disappointed with our recent visit to the Sheraton in Petaluma and the Sonoma Wine Country - it is great to have an additional place in Napa - and even better that it is a Westin.

I am going to surprise Robin with a weekend reservation...


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## DeniseM (Aug 22, 2008)

DavidnRobin said:


> Wow! This is fantastic for us Bay Area folks to visit the wine country.  While I wasn't disappointed with our recent visit to the Sheraton in Petaluma and the Sonoma Wine Country - it is great to have an additional place in Napa - and even better that it is a Westin.
> 
> I am going to surprise Robin with a weekend reservation...



can u please let us know how many starpoints they are charging per nite?


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## bizaro86 (Aug 22, 2008)

The Westin Verasa Napa is a cat 4 hotel, according to SPG.com, so it should be 10,000 Starpoints per night. Suites would be more, but I'm not sure if the 10,000 point standard upgrade would apply here or what that would get you.

Michael


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## tomandrobin (Aug 22, 2008)

10,000 starpoints


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## Ken555 (Aug 22, 2008)

I think this new hotel is calling out for me to visit for five nights...at the four night cost...


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## James1975NY (Aug 23, 2008)

In the by-laws, Starwoood reserves the right to change or modify reservation programs. 

What would likely happen is that any StarOptions that you be allowed to carry over would be restricted to use 60-days in advance. If you have read your by-laws, you will see why I use the 60-days as a example.

Why not suggest to SVO that there needs to be some focus on allowing owners to spend their StarOptions on more than just reservations. For an example, why not provide a Cabana at Westin Missions Hills for 10,000 StarOptions? As a Start, they could allow owners to carry-over StarOptions for non-reservation use only. A round of golf for two at Westin Kierland for 8,000 StarOptions....


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## pointsjunkie (Aug 23, 2008)

that would require major thinking on the part of starwood. that would be great but doubt if that would happen.


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## DavidnRobin (Aug 25, 2008)

bizaro86 said:


> The Westin Verasa Napa is a cat 4 hotel, according to SPG.com, so it should be 10,000 Starpoints per night. Suites would be more, but I'm not sure if the 10,000 point standard upgrade would apply here or what that would get you.
> 
> Michael



Just booked 2 nights for a weekend in mid-Oct at 10K SPs per nite.  Napa in October is beautiful (even more beautiful...) that time of year.

The peeve would be the the SPG website continues to freeze up while using it. You would think that the search and hotel info program wouldn't freeze-up like it was 1999...

The good thing is that on two tries it wouldn't book me for the weekend I wanted, but went in another way and it would allow me to book.

In looking at it further - it is accepting SPs, but not cash?  weird.

follow-up: Went through link from our confirmation email - and internet rates are $400 per nite for this weekend - that is 4 cents per SP - not bad...
looks like a great place for being in downtown Napa.


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## saluki (Aug 25, 2008)

DavidnRobin said:


> follow-up: Went through link from our confirmation email - and internet rates are $400 per nite for this weekend - that is 40 cents per SP - not bad...
> looks like a great place for being in downtown Napa.



David-

40 cents per Starpoint would be off-the-charts-good. 10000 SP at 40 cents each would equal $4000, though. 10000 SP for a $400 room = 4 cents per SP (10,000 x .04).. Still, not a bad deal but nothing approaching 40 cents each.


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## oneohana (Aug 25, 2008)

That's 4 cents a *point. But 40 cents sounds good also.


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## DavidnRobin (Aug 25, 2008)

ok - ok - it is 4 cents a point - my bad (doing math in my head on a monday morn)


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