# drug lords/cancun



## rynker (Mar 18, 2010)

I'm not worried but my daughter-in-law is listening to her neighbors(in Indiana) about how the drug lords are moving into Cancun and it's just getting worse.......we have a huge Christmas vacation planned at the Royals and now she says if it gets worse by the time we go, she won't go and won't let the kids go.......we've tried to convince her, but haven't succeeded.   I need help from anyone who's been there lately(the last 6 months).  We have been to Cancun for many years and have never found anything to feel unsafe about.   She needs proof.:annoyed:  Thanks for your help!


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## ttt (Mar 18, 2010)

I spend the month of Feb. in Playa del Carmen and went to Cancun several times. There is no drug war in this area. Only the border towns.


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## brankatz (Mar 18, 2010)

They were saying the same thing last year and My wife and I took 2 trips to Cancun one in March another in November also took along my 6 and 10 years old and had no concerns at all.  The Drug wars are not taking place in Cancun to many Tourists.


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## Twinkstarr (Mar 18, 2010)

rynker said:


> I'm not worried but my daughter-in-law is listening to her neighbors(in Indiana) about how the drug lords are moving into Cancun and it's just getting worse.......we have a huge Christmas vacation planned at the Royals and now she says if it gets worse by the time we go, she won't go and won't let the kids go.......we've tried to convince her, but haven't succeeded.   I need help from anyone who's been there lately(the last 6 months).  We have been to Cancun for many years and have never found anything to feel unsafe about.   She needs proof.:annoyed:  Thanks for your help!



I don't know what to tell you, our family doctor cancelled his spring break plans for Cancun the 2nd year in a row(last yr swine flu and violence, this year just the violence). Told him if I could have gotten decent airfare I would have grabbed one of those Royal Mayan weeks I saw pop up.

He looked at me like , crazy woman. Tried to tell him that none of the recent incidents was no where near Cancun. I think most people don't have an idea of the geography of Mexico.


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## Blondie (Mar 18, 2010)

We were there in Feb for the first time and it was perfect. We also went to Playa and that also was quiet and lovely. Just got back from PV and there was constant and obvious police presence and we saw many cruisers driving about. I asked one of the cabbies about it and he said they are making a statement and want everyone to know they are "there." We have never felt unsafe in Mexico. Why do folks think violence and drugs are specific just to Mexico???


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## burg1121 (Mar 18, 2010)

We are going to Playa Del in may seems ok there but some tourist areas do have probems. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/8566557.stm


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## KarenLK (Mar 18, 2010)

I am in Cancun right now and feel completely safe. There is no evidence of anything amiss in the hotel zone. 

Downtown, that may be a different story. I was on Av. Tulum yesterday and everything looked fine.


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## T_R_Oglodyte (Mar 18, 2010)

rynker said:


> I'm not worried but my daughter-in-law is listening to her neighbors(in Indiana) about how the drug lords are moving into Cancun and it's just getting worse.......we have a huge Christmas vacation planned at the Royals and now she says if it gets worse by the time we go, she won't go and won't let the kids go.......we've tried to convince her, but haven't succeeded.   I need help from anyone who's been there lately(the last 6 months).  We have been to Cancun for many years and have never found anything to feel unsafe about.   She needs proof.:annoyed:  Thanks for your help!


Reading your description, I suspect this is one of those situations where there is no "proof" possible that will cause her to change her mind.


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## John Cummings (Mar 18, 2010)

ttt said:


> I spend the month of Feb. in Playa del Carmen and went to Cancun several times. There is no drug war in this area. Only the border towns.



Though I agree that tourists don't need to be too concerned about drug wars in the Cancun area, the problem is NOT just in the border cities. There are many areas in Mexico far from the border that have serious problems.


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## california-bighorn (Mar 18, 2010)

We were in that area about 3 weeks ago.  Walked around Playa del Carmen and the issue of safety never entered our minds.  We walked everywhere and felt as safe or safer than walking around Sacramento. 
There was a larger than usual Police presence with stop points along the main highway.  We were told that was due to the Economic Conference being held in the area at the time.
But, after reading about what is going on in Mazatlan, I might think twice about going there soon.


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## Mike&Nancy (Mar 18, 2010)

If the drug lords wear bikini's I'd be scared to death down here! I don't remember the last time I saw this many people in Cancun. Haven't seen a lot of police or military either. They were thick just after hurricane Wilma.

Mike


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## ricki999 (Mar 18, 2010)

http://projects.latimes.com/mexico-drug-war/#/interactive-map

Data supporting this.



> Though I agree that tourists don't need to be too concerned about drug wars in the Cancun area, the problem is NOT just in the border cities. There are many areas in Mexico far from the border that have serious problems


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## geekette (Mar 18, 2010)

I'm in Indiana and can say that we in the Hoosier state have not received special bulletins about Mexican drug/violence stuff that differs from what everybody else knows.

Let your DIL make her own decision, I'd not discuss it with her further.  If she chooses to give in to fear, that's her decision.  If she decides to skip a fabulous trip because someone is filling her head with nonsense,well, that's her perogative.  

I don't personally subscribe to "Better Safe than Sorry!" as a one-size-fits all elixir.


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## rwpeterson (Mar 18, 2010)

*From the Royal Resorts Facebook page*

Thank you for inquiring about the recent US State Department travel warning for Mexico (March 14, 2010) and media reports of violence in the country, we would like to put your minds at rest about the Mexican Caribbean. Cancun and the Riviera Maya are two of the world’s safest travel destinations and Mexicans are renowned for their hospitality, friendliness and generosity. Visitors are always given a warm welcome and you are sure to have a great vacation here.

Most of the incidents in Mexico reported by the media are taking place in the north – often in sparsely populated and mountainous areas – and in cities along the Mexico-US border, literally at the other end of the country from the Mexican Caribbean. It is important to put geography into perspective; Mexico is a large country; border cities mentioned in the State Department warning such as Tijuana and Ciudad Juarez are over 3,000 miles from Cancun (driving distance) and over four hours by air. To give you another example, it is as if you hear a report about a crime in New York or Boston and you live in Texas.

Millions of US citizens safely visit Mexico each year and nearly one million of them have chosen to make their homes in this beautiful country. 

Common sense is the key to safety wherever you travel, whether at home or abroad, and may we suggest that you take certain precautions, just as you would if you were going to a new city in your own country. 

It is perfectly safe to travel to Cancun, the Riviera Maya, other parts of the Mexican Caribbean and the Yucatán. No violent crimes involving foreigners have been reported in Cancun or the Riviera Maya. 

There is no reason to consider changing your travel plans. Cancun’s newly restored beaches are looking beautiful and the variety of tourist attractions on offer in the area just keeps growing by the year. 

We look forward to welcoming you back to your home away from home and to helping you and your family have a wonderful vacation. 

Please feel free to contact us with any questions you may have.

We hope to see you soon.


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## rynker (Mar 19, 2010)

Thanks everyone!!!!!  This should be a big help!


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## hvacrsteve (Mar 19, 2010)

Go, have a great time, only go in the tourist areas.
Ride the bus, don't rent a car or drive.
You will be fine!

The gangs also know that Mexico lives off of tourism, without it they would be in bad shape.

I am booking a trip to Playa del carmen myself.


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## John Cummings (Mar 19, 2010)

rwpeterson said:


> Thank you for inquiring about the recent US State Department travel warning for Mexico (March 14, 2010) and media reports of violence in the country, we would like to put your minds at rest about the Mexican Caribbean. Cancun and the Riviera Maya are two of the world’s safest travel destinations and Mexicans are renowned for their hospitality, friendliness and generosity. Visitors are always given a warm welcome and you are sure to have a great vacation here.
> 
> Most of the incidents in Mexico reported by the media are taking place in the north – often in sparsely populated and mountainous areas – and in cities along the Mexico-US border, literally at the other end of the country from the Mexican Caribbean. It is important to put geography into perspective; Mexico is a large country; border cities mentioned in the State Department warning such as Tijuana and Ciudad Juarez are over 3,000 miles from Cancun (driving distance) and over four hours by air. To give you another example, it is as if you hear a report about a crime in New York or Boston and you live in Texas.
> 
> ...



I agree that the Cancun - Riviera Maya area is pretty safe. However, did you really expect a resort in the area to give anything other than a glowing report?


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## rwpeterson (Mar 19, 2010)

John Cummings said:


> I agree that the Cancun - Riviera Maya area is pretty safe. However, did you really expect a resort in the area to give anything other than a glowing report?



Can you find where any other resort has even addressed the issue?


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## John Cummings (Mar 19, 2010)

rwpeterson said:


> Can you find where any other resort has even addressed the issue?



I have never bothered to look as it doesn't matter to me what any resort has to say about it. My point is that any resort in the area obviously has a vested interested in promoting the area.

I am well aware of what is going on in Mexico.


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## nazclk (Mar 19, 2010)

*Cancun*

Gee folks they shot somebody in Detroit yesterday,  better not go to California the United States is having a crime spree.  To me this is what all the hipe amounts to.  What is the murder rate annually in Los Angeles. gee better not take your kids to Disneyland.  I go to Mexico at least twice a year and mostly three times.  I have absolutely no fear of going there. :whoopie:


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## PigsDad (Mar 19, 2010)

nazclk said:


> Gee folks they shot somebody in Detroit yesterday,  better not go to California the United States is having a crime spree.  To me this is what all the hipe amounts to.  What is the murder rate annually in Los Angeles. gee better not take your kids to Disneyland.  I go to Mexico at least twice a year and mostly three times.  I have absolutely no fear of going there. :whoopie:


Excellent post!   My sentiments exactly.  The media likes to hype up these stories because that is what sells.  Unfortunately, there are large masses of people who can't think for themselves and fall for it hook, line and sinker.

Kurt


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## Kenrabs (Mar 19, 2010)

We were there in Feb for a week and felt as safe as ever and we visited town several times in the evening with no issues. There actually was a lot of federal police around becuase of some visitor to the area. I feel safer in Cancun than walking the streets of Boston.


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## geoffb (Mar 21, 2010)

Just got home from Cancun. There was extra security in the hotel zone because the annual meeting of the International Bank of Development was being held at the convention center but most tourists seemed to view this as a photo op with the soldiers and federal police in the background.

Suggest to your daughter-in-law that she should do her own research rather than assuming that her neighbors have any knowledge on the subject.


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## T_R_Oglodyte (Mar 22, 2010)

John Cummings said:


> I have never bothered to look as it doesn't matter to me what any resort has to say about it. My point is that any resort in the area obviously has a vested interested in promoting the area.
> 
> I am well aware of what is going on in Mexico.



A bit of digression. 

John - we've previously commented in threads about Nayarit and Tepic.  I recall that I was surprised at how prosperous Nayarit and Tepic appeared to me.

So I found these articles from the LA Times quite interesting. I remember passing through Xalisco on our way to Tepic.  Little did I know!!!


*A lethal business model targets Middle America* - 
Sugar cane farmers from a tiny Mexican county use savvy marketing and low prices to push black-tar heroin in the United States.

*Black tar moves in, and death follows* - 
Dealers work systematically, pushing heroin in areas where users are unprepared for its potency.

*The good life in Xalisco can mean death in the United States* - 
The poorest of Mexico's poor can step up to the middle class when they go north to sell black tar.


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## John Cummings (Mar 22, 2010)

T_R_Oglodyte said:


> A bit of digression.
> 
> John - we've previously commented in threads about Nayarit and Tepic.  I recall that I was surprised at how prosperous Nayarit and Tepic appeared to me.
> 
> ...



Steve,

Interesting but not at all surprising. Culiacan, Sinaloa is probably the most prosperous city in Mexico by far. My wife is from Culiacan and we lived there for 4 years. Culiacan is a large city and capital of the state of Sinaloa. It is the prime agricultural area of Mexico and a lot of our produce comes from there. We visit there to see family that lives there.

Now what is the key to their prosperity. Culiacan is the heart of the Mexican drug industry and always has been. It is home to the major drug cartels and the most notorious ones. The whole state of Sinaloa, including Mazatlan is deeply involved in illegal drugs. There are many innocent victims that have nothing to do with the drug business but are in the wrong place at the wrong time.

In an article I read about Mexican business people and their families moving to the US to escape the violence, stated that the US immigration will NOT accept applications for visas from people living in Sinaloa. That is because of the links to the drug industry.


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## T_R_Oglodyte (Mar 22, 2010)

John Cummings said:


> …
> In an article I read about Mexican business people and their families moving to the US to escape the violence, stated that the US immigration will NOT accept applications for visas from people living in Sinaloa. That is because of the links to the drug industry.



I'm aware that Sinaloa is the state most deeply enmeshed in the drug trade.

The economic comments are interesting.  During the time we lived in California I noted similar situations in Humboldt and Del Norte counties.  Officially, the economic conditions in those counties was gruesome with the demise of the lumber industry.  Yet when you went through the area there were always plenty of new vehicles, many of them 4-WD, there weren't any boarded up store fronts in the commercial areas, restaurants and diners were doing thriving, ....

Yet the unemployment was supposed to be near 20%, with still larger numbers of other people underemployed.


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## Liz Wolf-Spada (Mar 22, 2010)

The northern counties you mention have pretty much subsisted on growing marijuana for the past 30 years or so, since the lumber industry disappeared. There have been some reports of violence related to that, but nothing like the violence in Mexico with innocent people kidnapped, tortured and killed, police targeted etc. More like the kind of violence that would happen if someone was trespassing directly on the property. I had friends who lived in Garberville in Humboldt county in the early 70's and it was pretty economically depressed. Later, the growers came in and the economic activity increased a lot.
Liz


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## Monica (Mar 23, 2010)

nazclk said:


> Gee folks they shot somebody in Detroit yesterday,  better not go to California the United States is having a crime spree.  To me this is what all the hipe amounts to.  What is the murder rate annually in Los Angeles. gee better not take your kids to Disneyland.  I go to Mexico at least twice a year and mostly three times.  I have absolutely no fear of going there. :whoopie:



Neither do I, and I'm one of those that travels to Acapulco that has really been in the news lately.  I'll still continue to go, too.


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## Amy (Apr 2, 2010)

Don't fall asleep on a pool side lounge chair in the middle of the night, even in a "safe" Cancun resort:  

http://www.wsvn.com/news/articles/local/MI83208/
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-20001545-504083.html


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## PigsDad (Apr 2, 2010)

Amy said:


> Don't fall asleep on a pool side lounge chair in the middle of the night, even in a "safe" Cancun resort:


I guess we should stay away from Phoenix, AZ as well:

Kidnapping Capital of the U.S.A.

Kurt


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## geoffb (Apr 2, 2010)

Amy said:


> Don't fall asleep on a pool side lounge chair in the middle of the night, even in a "safe" Cancun resort:
> 
> http://www.wsvn.com/news/articles/local/MI83208/
> http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-20001545-504083.html



Can you even tell from these articles where he was staying? No. 

Lots of speculation in there but few facts.


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## rifleman69 (Apr 5, 2010)

Amy said:


> Don't fall asleep on a pool side lounge chair in the middle of the night, even in a "safe" Cancun resort:
> 
> http://www.wsvn.com/news/articles/local/MI83208/
> http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-20001545-504083.html



Uh, you're in a foreign country...it's not the U.S.   Passing out on a pool side lounge chair is most definitely not "taking care" of yourself.   Did his friends even try to wake him up or drag him upstairs?   Don't let trouble find you (passing out in public) and be aware of your surroundings.


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## T_R_Oglodyte (Apr 5, 2010)

Perhaps people should also avoid traveling to New York, or if they do, they should be sure to not use the subways and avoid midtown Manhattan.

*Mayhem In Midtown Manhattan*

     4 People Shot, Dozens Arrested Monday In Mile-Long Stretch Of  Manhattan Near Times Square


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## tombo (Apr 5, 2010)

rifleman69 said:


> Uh, you're in a foreign country...it's not the U.S.   Passing out on a pool side lounge chair is most definitely not "taking care" of yourself.   Did his friends even try to wake him up or drag him upstairs?   Don't let trouble find you (passing out in public) and be aware of your surroundings.



It is not smart to pass out in public anywhere, but to pass out at an oceanfront resort does not equal being beaten into a coma at any resort I am familiar with.

If this had happened at a US resort, the resort would be sued for lack of security. The resort would be doing everything they could to help the police and to prevent it from happening in the future to prevent future law suits and to keep tourists coming.The police would have newspaper and tv cameras in their face every day asking how close they were to solving the case of the beaten college grad. Not in Mexico. The crime was to a drunk tourist, don't worry about it. Resort doesn't talk about it, local news doesn't cover it, police close the case quietly.

 At most RESORT destinations there are security guards and CAMERAS! Not one mention of witnesses, security guards who saw anything other than him laying there beaten, no video surveillance tapes being reviewed, and no police reports mentioned. In the US there would be a police investigation. The police would have met with the parents and told them how the case was progressing unlike what has happened in Mexico. In the article the mother said "The police never even met with us." That is really caring about you tourist industry and the tourists who pay to visit. In the USA the case might never be solved, but at least there would be an attempt to find out who did this.

Does anyone really think that the police handling of this case where a foreign tourist was beaten almost to death happens everywhere? It doesn't happen at places I vacation, and if it does I will not vacation there again once I find out about it. When the local police won't even try to help find the people who did this or discuss the case with the young man's parents, why would anyone visit this area hoping they might protect you or your family if needed? A young high school girl on her senior trip from my town took a cab back to her Cancun resort from the bar and the cab driver took her off and raped her. Her parents flew down to Cancun, met with the police, and the police did NOTHING. No arrests, no suspects, nothing! They acted like they couldn't find a CAB DRIVER! The police told them that many cab drivers in Cancun weren't legal cab drivers. What a great police force. The parent's never felt like the police even tried to hlp them or their daughter.

 In many instances in Mexico when a crime is committed against a foreign tourist, they just don't care.The tourists will leave and the police feel that the problem leaves when the tourist does. If enough people quit spending their money vacationing in Mexico, the police might become more caring about the plight of the "gringos" they seem to despise.


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## Amy (Apr 5, 2010)

rifleman69 said:


> Uh, you're in a foreign country...it's not the U.S.   Passing out on a pool side lounge chair is most definitely not "taking care" of yourself.   Did his friends even try to wake him up or drag him upstairs?   Don't let trouble find you (passing out in public) and be aware of your surroundings.



I agree.  Talk about foolish thing to do in any place, even in the U.S.  I didn't mean to suggest this is a reason to avoid Cancun or anyplace else.  It was more in line of the "don't let trouble find you" caution:  even if you think you are staying on the nicest ocean front luxury resort on Cancun (or elsewhere), you still need to be alert to your surroundings and hanging out poolside alone in the middle of the night is just not a wise thing to do.


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## John Cummings (Apr 5, 2010)

tombo said:


> ...In many instances in Mexico when a crime is committed against a foreign tourist, they just don't care.The tourists will leave and the police feel that the problem leaves when the tourist does. If enough people quit spending their money vacationing in Mexico, the police might become more caring about the plight of the "gringos" they seem to despise.



This doesn't happen just to tourists. The Mexican people are victims also. My wife is Mexican and all of her family lives in Mexico. Many of them have been victims of crimes from car theft, to armed assaults, and kidnapping. The police don't do anything and are often the criminals or linked to them. Most crimes are never reported in Mexico due to the people's deep distrust of law enforcement.


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## Amy (Apr 5, 2010)

John Cummings said:


> This doesn't happen just to tourists. The Mexican people are victims also. My wife is Mexican and all of her family lives in Mexico. Many of them have been victims of crimes from car theft, to armed assaults, and kidnapping. The police don't do anything and are often the criminals or linked to them. Most crimes are never reported in Mexico due to the people's deep distrust of law enforcement.



So, what are police officers supposed to do?  I mean, what is their actual job description?


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## tombo (Apr 5, 2010)

John Cummings said:


> This doesn't happen just to tourists. The Mexican people are victims also. My wife is Mexican and all of her family lives in Mexico. Many of them have been victims of crimes from car theft, to armed assaults, and kidnapping. The police don't do anything and are often the criminals or linked to them. Most crimes are never reported in Mexico due to the people's deep distrust of law enforcement.



That is soo sad for the residents who have no choice but to live there with crooked police in charge and no protection for themselves, their families, or their property.  I thought it was just tourists they ignore, harass, or arrest. So many lower income places in the world have police that are corrupt leaving the average citizen at the mercy of the criminal kingpins who can buy the police. 

I went from Texas to Lake Guerrerro several years ago and we drove through rural mexico and several small towns. Talk about corrupt and scary, that trip covered it all. We went been through the military road blocks when our guides had to bribe the military to gain us safe passage. We were shaken down at a small city too. The guide explained that is is simply the cost of doing business in Mexico.  It might be standard operating procedure to him, but it is scary when the Federales have automatic weapons trained on your bus as the guide negotiates with them. it is unerving as the miltary men walk the aisles of the bus looking at each and every person while holding an automatic rifle. it is a fishing trip i will not take again.

Cancun, Cozumel, etc are such beautiful vacation destinations, and the resorts are so nice that this area is a world class place to visit. If not for the crooked/lazy/ineficient police the area could be so perfect. It is a shame to feel unsafe when you are anywhere other than the resort in Mexico, and with police who will not protect you from local muggers, robbers and rapists how can you feel safe once you leave you leave the safety of your resort? This is why I will not return to Jamaica. At the Jamaica resorts you are safe, once you leave you are on your own. the armed guards on the beach and the front desk warnings should make anyone nervous although some love to go to town anyway. Cancun is still safer than Jamaica, but downtown is not a place I feel comfortable at night.

As long as the Mexican police remain corrupt and offer little or no protection for the tourists (or as you say locals either), I will not vacation there again. If more Americans do the same, perhaps the economic pressure could force them to change police officers and hire some who are protecting the tourists and citizens rather than the criminals they are friends with or work for.


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## John Cummings (Apr 5, 2010)

To be fair, not all of the police are corrupt. It varies according to location and several other factors. However corruption is a very serious problem and often goes from the police on the street right up to the top. I had to bribe the authorities so my wife could get her passport.


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## tombo (Apr 5, 2010)

John Cummings said:


> To be fair, not all of the police are corrupt. It varies according to location and several other factors. However corruption is a very serious problem and often goes from the police on the street right up to the top. I had to bribe the authorities so my wife could get her passport.



I guess the next time I am mad at our government for one thing or another (like how long it takes them to get me a new passport in the mail) I should just be happy that we have it as good here as we do. I didn't have to bribe anyone or have connections to get my passport renewed last year, I just went to the post office and I eventually got it. I have  never had to bribe police, politicians, or the military to go somewhere or do something. I don't get stopped by the police unless I am speeding, swerving, or forget to turn on my headlights. There is the occassional roadblock where they check for DL's and insurance, but that it a minor inconvenience, and they don't require a bribe to get through the roadblock. I NEVER worry about members of our military because I know that they have voluntarilly enlisted to protect the freedom we all enjoy. I thank and congratulate our young men and women in uniform when I see them in stores or on planes. I never feel a sense of dread when I am approaching a military convoy, I feel more secure seeing them. If I was robbed, mugged, or threatened I would call the police in a second and fully expect them to work as hard as they can to protect me and my family. Our police and military (with rare exceptions) are here to help and protect us for very low wages with no hope of getting rich. I don't know what it would be like to not be able to trust the police and military here in the USA, and I sure hope that I never have to find out what the lack of trust feels like.

We do have it good here and sometimes I forget how good we do have it until I hear about or experience for myself how others are forced to live.


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## easyrider (Apr 5, 2010)

The Pacific Northwest Canadians seem to be the biggest high quality pot producers and they are not killing each other off.

Northern Californian pot growers seem to get along with out killing everybody.

Here in Washington State it seems like there are more pot grows busted every year with out anyone killing anyone.

It must be the difference in drugs. If it were just pot coming in from Mexico there would most likely be less violence. We have seen people getting busted in Cabo and Pueto Vallarta. In Cabo the police wear masks and are armed like the milatary. Its seemed over done but most swat units in the USA do the same thing. 

At the night clubs in Cabo there is increased violence against older people from younger people at certain events. No one has picked on us yet but I have seen drunken idiots of all ages in Cabo acting badly. There are idiots acting up every where but if it happens in Mexico it must be something worse. Street violence in the USA is widespread and it could be that more gang bangers are killed over here than over there. If thats whats happening then Mexico should have a travel advisory about the USA.  Maybe the USA should have a travel advisory on the USA. lol


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## california-bighorn (Apr 6, 2010)

tombo said:


> That is soo sad for the residents who have no choice but to live there with crooked police in charge and no protection for themselves, their families, or their property.  I thought it was just tourists they ignore, harass, or arrest. So many lower income places in the world have police that are corrupt leaving the average citizen at the mercy of the criminal kingpins who can buy the police.
> 
> I went from Texas to Lake Guerrerro several years ago and we drove through rural mexico and several small towns. Talk about corrupt and scary, that trip covered it all. We went been through the military road blocks when our guides had to bribe the military to gain us safe passage. We were shaken down at a small city too. The guide explained that is is simply the cost of doing business in Mexico.  It might be standard operating procedure to him, but it is scary when the Federales have automatic weapons trained on your bus as the guide negotiates with them. it is unerving as the miltary men walk the aisles of the bus looking at each and every person while holding an automatic rifle. it is a fishing trip i will not take again.



I work in law enforcement as do other family members and friends.  We love traveling to Mexico, but we never state what kind of work we are in and leave behind anything that may indicate what kind of work we do as that will make you a target as they become very suspicious of why you are there.  One friend brought his Police Officer ID with him.  Huge mistake.  He got shaken down twice.


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## Skinsfan1311 (Apr 6, 2010)

John Cummings said:


> To be fair, not all of the police are corrupt. It varies according to location and several other factors. However corruption is a very serious problem and often goes from the police on the street right up to the top. I had to bribe the authorities so my wife could get her passport.



We dove the Cenotes, about an hour, or so, south of Cancun.  After the dive, we ate lunch with our DM, (dive-master), and got to talking about the police and corruption.   He's German, and his wife is Mexican.

He said, (and I'm paraphrasing here):

"If my wife was walking down the street, alone, and there were police on one side of the street, and a gang of angry looking young guys with baseball bats in their hands on the other, she'd take her chances with the gang"


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## kwilson (Apr 6, 2010)

Skinsfan1311 said:


> "If my wife was walking down the street, alone, and there were police on one side of the street, and a gang of angry looking young guys with baseball bats in their hands on the other, she'd take her chances with the gang"



Think about the logic: The police would protect her from the gang, but the gang would not protect her from the police.


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## John Cummings (Apr 6, 2010)

kwilson said:


> Think about the logic: The police would protect her from the gang, but the gang would not protect her from the police.



Your logic is flawed as applied to Mexico. I know exactly what was meant by the statement and my wife would make the same choice.


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## easyrider (Apr 6, 2010)

While the per capita murder rate is over 50% higher in Mexico than in the USA the overall per capita crime rate in the USA is 60% higher than in Mexico. This would indicate that Mexico, in most places, is safer than the USA.

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_tot_cri_percap-crime-total-crimes-per-capita


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## John Cummings (Apr 6, 2010)

easyrider said:


> While the per capita murder rate is over 50% higher in Mexico than in the USA the overall per capita crime rate in the USA is 60% higher than in Mexico. This would indicate that Mexico, in most places, is safer than the USA.
> 
> http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_tot_cri_percap-crime-total-crimes-per-capita



This is not a valid assumption because the vast majority of crimes in Mexico are never reported.


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## tombo (Apr 6, 2010)

california-bighorn said:


> I work in law enforcement as do other family members and friends.  We love traveling to Mexico, but we never state what kind of work we are in and leave behind anything that may indicate what kind of work we do as that will make you a target as they become very suspicious of why you are there.  One friend brought his Police Officer ID with him.  Huge mistake.  He got shaken down twice.



Wouldn't it suck to live in that kind of environment where you don't trust the police, and they don't trust you? That would be especially bad when you are involved in law enforcement and that makes you less trustworthy than most. 

The same reason the Mexican Police don't trust you is the same reason many here in the US don't trust the US police, and that is because they are doing something wrong and don't want to get caught. I am always at ease in the US because other than speeding, I am doing nothing wrong. The police can pull me over, ask for my ID, or anything else within reason because I have nothing to hide. In Mexico things are different. I worry about the police because I am not sure what they are currently doing wrong, and I am worried about what they might be about to do wrong to me. If they take you into custody, you might come back robbed, beaten, and that is if you come back at all. In Mexico calling a lawyer because they beat you or robbed you will not help, in fact it will probably make it worse on you.

Thank you Sir for your service. I know it is a job you do because you love it, not because it will make you wealthy. I am glad that we have law enforcement in this country that serve the public and makes us safer. I would hate for there to be a questionable choice between youth with bats and the police as to who you should feel safer with. In the US I will trust my life to the police, and they will do their best to protect me, my family, and my property with the exception of a few bad apples here and there. 

I love to travel and God willing I will continue to do so. However after traveling to many different countries, there is no place I have visited where I would rather live than in the good old USA. i am always glad to get back home.


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## Blue Skies (Apr 6, 2010)

Thank you John Cummings for sharing your personal knowledge of Mexico (and the Mexican authorities) with the rest of us.  Your posts on the subject are very informative and I appreciate having this information.


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## John Cummings (Apr 6, 2010)

Blue Skies said:


> Thank you John Cummings for sharing your personal knowledge of Mexico (and the Mexican authorities) with the rest of us.  Your posts on the subject are very informative and I appreciate having this information.



You are very welcome.


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## tombo (Apr 6, 2010)

John, I too have appreciated your posts. They are all informative, factual and the stories are from personal knowledge. 

I am curious. Given the problems your wife had getting a passport and possibly other problems associated with the local authorities, does she go home to Mexico to visit family, or is it a situation where she got out and never wants to risk going back?


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## John Cummings (Apr 6, 2010)

tombo said:


> John, I too have appreciated your posts. They are all informative, factual and the stories are from personal knowledge.
> 
> I am curious. Given the problems your wife had getting a passport and possibly other problems associated with the local authorities, does she go home to Mexico to visit family, or is it a situation where she got out and never wants to risk going back?



Yes, she does go to Mexico to visit family though not as much now. My wife is a dual US/Mexican citizen. We were married in Culiacan, Sinaloa Mexico and lived in Mexico for 4 years. Mexico was much safer than the US in those days. I am fluent in Spanish, bi-cultural, founded a business in Mexico and worked there. Our son played baseball in Mexico as an adult and was on the Mexican All Star team that played in the International Olympic Tournaments in 1993-94.

I used to always go with my wife to visit family as I am very close to her family. My wife won't let me anymore go because of the crime and violence and I would be a target. Some of her family is able to visit us here.

I have traveled over a lot of Mexico for business and work plus we have taken many timeshare vacations there in various locations but probably won't do that anymore. The resort areas are fairly safe if you stick with the crowds. I certainly would not recommend roaming around Mazatlan on your own. I don't recommend driving in Mexico for several reasons.

There are lots of people that will tell you that Mexico is as safe or safer than the US but that is simply not true. Usually these folks have a vested interest such as owners of Mexican timeshares. There are definitely areas of the US that are very dangerous but we know where they are and don't go there. I don't know too many people that vacation in downtown Detroit or Compton.

The passport thing was not a really big deal. My wife and I went to the passport office in Culiacan with her application, documents, and photos, etc. The official told her it would take at least several months to a year if at all. I then asked him if there wasn't some way to speed it up. He then said, If I paid him directly, she could have the passport that same day. We paid the bribe and had the passport in 1 hour.

I lived in Venezuela back when it was prosperous  and it was the same if not worse. I was the manager of a Computer company's sales and service office in Caracas, Venezuela. I had to bribe officials all the time or you couldn't do business just like in Mexico.

Now, I have also dealt with some very honest and helpful police and government officials in Mexico. The judge that married us was very honest and helped us a lot.


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## tombo (Apr 6, 2010)

John Cummings said:


> I used to always go with my wife to visit family as I am very close to her family. My wife won't let me anymore go because of the crime and violence and I would be a target.
> 
> There are lots of people that will tell you that Mexico is as safe or safer than the US but that is simply not true. Usually these folks have a vested interest such as owners of Mexican timeshares. There are definitely areas of the US that are very dangerous but we know where they are and don't go there. I don't know too many people that vacation in downtown Detroit or Compton.



Would you be a target simply because you are an American or for some other reason?

I have no illusions that Mexico is dangerous everywhere or that the US is safe in all places. I do however think that playing the odds you have a better chance of being safe in a US tourist destination than in a Mexican tourist destination. In the US you at least do have police on your side and you are not automatically guilty if you get into wreck or an altercation with locals here in the US like you are if you have any problem with locals in Mexico.

I like New Orleans and the French Quarter is great, but a couple of blocks away you can find all of the danger and criminals you could dream of. Washington DC at night is not great either, but during the day very safe and fun. The one thing i can say is that in any area in the US I am familiar with there is not a flourishing kidnapping industry like there currently is in most of Mexico. I also feel safe to trust the police in the US and I can't say the same about the authorities in Mexico.


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## easyrider (Apr 6, 2010)

John Cummings said:


> This is not a valid assumption because the vast majority of crimes in Mexico are never reported.



Pretty much every murder of an American or Canadian in Mexico is reported. 

Death of tourists even in dangereous parts of Mexico are mostly acidental such as drowning and car wrecks. The second biggest cause of deaths of tourists would be health problems. 

Yes, there are areas of Mexico that petty or opportunistic crime against tourists is prevalent but it is that way in many tourist areas around the world.
I realize that your experience with the Mexican violence is more of a personal experience than a tourist experience. As a tourist, Im only in Mexico for 2 week stays at nice resorts. We do explore and stay out late and have so far not seen the criminal activity you speak of. I haven't seen any plauge of swine flu in Mexico either. Overall our group feels prety safe as the worst that has happened is Montazuma's revenge or lost lugage.


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## John Cummings (Apr 7, 2010)

easyrider said:


> Pretty much every murder of an American or Canadian in Mexico is reported.



Yes, murder is reported and as you pointed out, the murder rate is much higher in Mexico. However, you stated that the general crime rate is lower in Mexico. As I said, you cannot compare general crime rates because the vast majority of crimes are not reported in Mexico.

I have been in East St. Louis, downtown Detroit, and Compton CA. All 3 are very high crime areas but nothing happened to me so I guess I can assume they are safe. Well, you might but I sure won't.

The odds are that nothing will happen to you in Mexico but the odds are greater than they are here.


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## John Cummings (Apr 7, 2010)

tombo said:


> Would you be a target simply because you are an American or for some other reason?



I would be a target because I would stand out and it would be assumed that I would be a lucrative kidnap or robbery victim. Nationality has nothing to do with it.


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## T_R_Oglodyte (Apr 7, 2010)

John Cummings said:


> Yes, murder is reported and as you pointed out, the murder rate is much higher in Mexico. However, you stated that the general crime rate is lower in Mexico. As I said, you cannot compare general crime rates because the vast majority of crimes are not reported in Mexico.
> 
> I have been in East St. Louis, downtown Detroit, and Compton CA. All 3 are very high crime areas but nothing happened to me so I guess I can assume they are safe. Well, you might but I sure won't.
> 
> The odds are that nothing will happen to you in Mexico but the odds are greater than they are here.


John - 

If one were to segregate out the drug-related murders - to try to get a handle on the general level of societal mayhem - what is your sense of how Mexico would compare with the US?

What triggers my comment is my observations of newspaper stories when I've been in Mexico.  I've noted on several occasions levels of coverage of situations, such as serial robberies not involving violence, that are much more intensive than in the US.  In contrast, in the US a story such as that would be lucky if it made into the local coverage section, let alone the front page.


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## John Cummings (Apr 7, 2010)

T_R_Oglodyte said:


> John -
> 
> Steve,
> 
> ...



I can't really answer that as to make a true comparison, one would have to also segregate drug related murders in the US. There are 2 basic reasons for the surge in crime and violence in Mexico. The first reason is due to the drug cartels. The second reason is due to the severe economic crisis's that Mexico has gone through in the past 40 years especially with the major crisis of December, 1994. This has caused a breakdown in the family structure that was so strong in Mexico. This is coupled with the atmosphere of lawlessness created by the drug cartels.

I strongly believe that one is far more likely to be a crime victim in Mexico than here in the US. Crime has decreased in the US over the past several years whereas it has surged in Mexico.

I disagree that serial robberies would not be reported here. The point is that the majority of crimes including armed assaults are not reported in Mexico. This is because the people have no trust or confidence in law enforcement there. When my nephew was the victim of armed assault a couple months ago, he did nothing about it as he said it would be no use. That is the attitude of the people. Friends of ours have had their homes broken into and robbed several times. I asked them why they didn't report it. They laughed and said the police were probably involved in it. We have also had family members that were kidnapped and had their fingers cut off. None of these crimes were drug related.

Most tourist areas are pretty safe in Mexico, especially the Cancun/Riviera Maya area. The authorities in that area realize that tourism is their only industry so they try their best to protect it. Mazatlan is the least safe of the tourist destinations. There is no doubt that tourist related crime is much higher in Mexico than the US. However it is still a very small percentage of the tourists that are victims. I am concerned that it will increase drastically due to the decline in tourism resulting in job losses. There is no safety net in Mexico so they have to do what they can to survive.

There is another area of their economy that most Americans aren't aware of that is suffering badly. The money that undocumented Mexican workers send to their families in Mexico is the second largest source of income in Mexico only exceeded by petroleum. It is larger than tourism. Due to our recession that source of income has dropped drastically and many of the illegals have returned to Mexico but there are no jobs there. These economic issues are a strong contributor to crime as Mexico is a poor country and people become desparate in their struggle to survive.


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## Amy (Apr 7, 2010)

John Cummings said:


> When my nephew was the victim of armed assault a couple months ago, he did nothing about it as he said it would be no use. That is the attitude of the people. Friends of ours have had their homes broken into and robbed several times. I asked them why they didn't report it. They laughed and said the police were probably involved in it. We have also had family members that were kidnapped and had their fingers cut off. None of these crimes were drug related.



  What you have described as having happened to people you know reads like plot lines from some novels or movies/TV to me.  I just cannot imagine (1) such crimes as being a "normal" part of life, (2) not reporting such crimes or, (3) more importantly,  having the firm belief that reporting such crimes would be futile.  I feel very fortunate.


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## T_R_Oglodyte (Apr 7, 2010)

John Cummings said:


> I disagree that serial robberies would not be reported here.


I didn't mean to imply that serial robberies wouldn't be reported in the US.  Certainly they would, and from your comments it would appear they would more likely be reported in the US.

What I was commenting on was the attention being given to the serial robberies.  Last time I was in Puerto Vallarta, the saga of some serial robberies was front page news for three or four days running until the suspects were apprehended.  But it was the type of crime that in the US would be story in the local news section, not the front page and not for several days running.


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## John Cummings (Apr 7, 2010)

Amy said:


> What you have described as having happened to people you know reads like plot lines from some novels or movies/TV to me.  I just cannot imagine (1) such crimes as being a "normal" part of life, (2) not reporting such crimes or, (3) more importantly,  having the firm belief that reporting such crimes would be futile.  I feel very fortunate.



We should feel very fortunate to live here. My wife certainly does and she is from Mexico,


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## John Cummings (Apr 7, 2010)

T_R_Oglodyte said:


> I didn't mean to imply that serial robberies wouldn't be reported in the US.  Certainly they would, and from your comments it would appear they would more likely be reported in the US.
> 
> What I was commenting on was the attention being given to the serial robberies.  Last time I was in Puerto Vallarta, the saga of some serial robberies was front page news for three or four days running until the suspects were apprehended.  But it was the type of crime that in the US would be story in the local news section, not the front page and not for several days running.



We are discussing 2 different types of reporting. There is the reporting of crime to the law enforcement officials which is generally not done in Mexico, except for murder, and is reported to the law here in the US. The second is the media reporting. When you are discussing newspapers in Mexico are you referring to main stream ones like El Excélsior or El Universal or tabloids? Mexico is inundated with tabloids worse than the Enquirer. I don't read newspapers here except the USA Today when I am traveling.


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## T_R_Oglodyte (Apr 7, 2010)

John Cummings said:


> We are discussing 2 different types of reporting. There is the reporting of crime to the law enforcement officials which is generally not done in Mexico, except for murder, and is reported to the law here in the US. The second is the media reporting. When you are discussing newspapers in Mexico are you referring to main stream ones like El Excélsior or El Universal or tabloids? Mexico is inundated with tabloids worse than the Enquirer. I don't read newspapers here except the USA Today when I am traveling.


I don't remember what newspaper I was seeing; it would have either been in vending stands or displayed on street corners.  In Puerto Vallarta I'm guessing it would have been El Faro.


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## Karen G (Apr 7, 2010)

John Cummings said:


> I would be a target because I would stand out and it would be assumed that I would be a lucrative kidnap or robbery victim. Nationality has nothing to do with it.


Why would you stand out--are you much taller than the average person or do you wear expensive jewelry or dress extravagantly? What is different about you as opposed to any other person?


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## John Cummings (Apr 7, 2010)

Karen G said:


> Why would you stand out--are you much taller than the average person or do you wear expensive jewelry or dress extravagantly? What is different about you as opposed to any other person?



No, I am not exceptionally tall, don't wear jewelry, and don't dress extravagantly. We are talking about visiting my wife's family that lives in Cd. Obregon Sonora and Culiacan Sinaloa. There are very few non-Mexicans that visit these areas. It would be assumed that I have money and access to an ATM.  Culiacan is a large city and the capital of the state of Sinaloa located about 140 miles north of Mazatlan. Culiacan is also the capital of the drug industry. We also have a lot of family that lives in Tijuana. I used to go to Tijuana 5 days a week but don't anymore. All of her relatives in Tijuana can visit us here so they do.


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## easyrider (Apr 7, 2010)

Im sure we won't be hanging out in TJ, Matamoros, Nuevo Laredo, Tecati, Mexicali or any other border town. Mazatlan and Aculpoco were on the might go list but are now on the won't be hanging out list. 

At the same time we won't be hanging out in Watts, Detroit, Clevland, Camden, Flint, Oakland, Lorain, Baltimore and plenty of other US cities.  

Chicago and Gary, forget it. Chicago and Gary are the murder capitols of the world. 

The crime plauged cities in the USA do have some things in common with crime plauged cities in Mexico. The war on drugs has created a highly profitable way of life. From selling drugs to selling weapons to protect profits, it seems this war has failed. We should have just legalized and taxed drugs. Creating this giagantic market for illicit drugs is a by product of protecting the citizens that are now suffering from this protection. Hindsight is 20/20.


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## CalifasGirl (Apr 15, 2010)

*crime rate decreasing*



nazclk said:


> Gee folks they shot somebody in Detroit yesterday, better not go to California the United States is having a crime spree. To me this is what all the hipe amounts to. *What is the murder rate annually in Los Angeles.* gee better not take your kids to Disneyland. I go to Mexico at least twice a year and mostly three times. I have absolutely no fear of going there. :whoopie:


 
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lan...killings-last-week-in-los-angeles-county.html

Well, crime is going down, but there were 16 murders last week in LA County, where I grew up.


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## PStreet1 (Apr 17, 2010)

This morning's paper yielded "Deadly night in Chicago: 7 killed and 18 more wounded in a matter of hours in shootings." It goes on to say most of the 7 who died had documented gang ties; nobody was in custody in any of the slayings. At least two of the victims died in drive-by shootings, including an 18 year old who was killed as he pushed his son down the street in a stroller.

If that had happened in Mexico, it would have been headline news; when it happens in Chicago, it gets a small back page mention in our paper. That's the difference in media coverage. That's why some of us say the American media is responsible for instilling paranoia in Americans about traveling anywhere in Mexico.

Unfortunately, as long as American money fuels drug consumption, we'll continue to see violence in any area that touches the trade lines, certainly if it is directly related to drugs, but also tangentially.


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