# Signed an agreement but seems like a timeshare resale scam now...help (2019) Vidanta



## mp562 (Nov 30, 2019)

Hi Everyone --

We could really use your help on this one.  I've read through a lot of other red flags/scam messages on the forums but I haven't seen any advice for if you've signed a sales agreement and then realize it's a scam.

A little background on our situation.  We were cold called (which should have been red flag #1) and then offered far more for our timeshare that what we paid (should have been red flag #2) from a buyer (should have been red flag #3) interested in obtaining controlling ownership of Vidanta resort in Nuevo Vallarta.  We were told that no money would be needed up front and that their commission fees would come out of the sale from the escrow account.  So far this seemed reasonable.  They even sent us the Citibanamex bank account statement - which we called and confirmed that the account is valid and that the money was in it.  We did not provide the amount to CItibanamex when we called, and they told us what it was which matched the statement.  They also provided us their realtor sales information which was confirmed with the Pennsylvania board and everything, again everything seemed legitimate.  Then the kicker comes in, we would need to pay a tax and establish a Mexican ID to conduct the sale, which would be a reimbursement after the sale but we would need to pay that now or go down to Mexico and deal with this (that should have been red flag #4).  At this point I said that we were told no money would be needed up front and now we have to pay these RFC Tax Payer ID "taxes" ($5430 - funny how others have been about the same amout).  Now is when we felt this was a scam, and a good scam at that.  We also noticed the website addressed changed through this process as well as e-mail addresses - as we've dragged out the whole process for almost 3 months now.  We were provided with 2 satisfied clients, but can't tell if they're in on it, we're going to assume that they are at this point.

The problem is, as I've stated at the beginning, that we signed the sales agreement, and in it there is a clause which states that if we decide to cancel the sale (breach of agreement), we would be responsible to paying their commission - 4% ($2812.40).  We've already spoken with an attorney and are prepared to go to court if necessary, but has anyone else been in this situation?  If so, what did you do?  Did you have to end up going to court?  Did you just ignore them and they went away?  Did you just stop taking their calls/block their calls?  Did you tell them to go away and that you weren't going to be sending them any money?  Did you end up having to go through with a court ordeal?  We told them that our bank would not wire money to Mexico.  We have a follow up call with the same attorney this coming Wednesday, but would love to hear if anyone else has been in our stupid situation that we put ourselves in.

While we did sign the sales agreement, we never signed the escrow documents, so this is the only point that we got to.

They have sent a cancellation letter saying that we need to pay the 4% but they can't do this before the closing date, so we're not too worried about that as they have already sent quite a few with wrong information.

Before we ever got started (around June 2019), we tried doing research, but nothing came up - only now am I finding others saying this is a scam starting around September 2019.

If this does go to court, we will prove that they knowingly committed fraud and then we will be counter-suing them for wasting my time.  We will also be reporting them to the BBB, the state attorney general (Pennsylvania), as well as the Federal Trade Commission (which is where we did find some info starting around September 2019).

We don't want to get rid of our timeshare at this point, as we do use it, we just want these people to go away and are willing to fight it.

Players involved in this (if it is even their real names/companies):

James Adams
Real Estate Broker
Ace Properties LLC
1701 Market Street, Philadelphia, PA 19103
(267) 678-0104 x375

William Canzino
Escrow Officer
1913 Capital Group LLC
403 Wythe Avenue, Brooklyn, NY 11249
(917) 745-3729

We appreciate your advice and expertise in advance.  We will follow up as information comes along for anyone else that's in our situation and shut these scam artists down once and for all.

Thank you for listening to us.


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## Eric B (Nov 30, 2019)

Bottom line is that it's a scam.  There is no way to acquire a controlling interest in a Mexican resort that sells right-to-use contracts like Vidanta does by buying a lot of right-to-use contracts because all those contracts would allow them to do is use the resort.

My suggestion would be to tell them that they are in breach of the agreement for asking for up-front payment of taxes when the agreement did not call for it but allowed for payment of all fees from the proceeds.  You could also tell them that because this is a contract for a Mexican timeshare, it is void if it is not in Spanish, which is the official legal language in Mexico.  Additionally, you are exercising your right to rescind the timeshare contract as allowed under California State law.  The folks you are dealing with are con man, not lawyers, so it doesn't really matter what you tell them or whether it's true so long as it sounds like it is, after all.  Finally, just block their phone numbers and hang up anytime someone calls asking to buy your timeshare - those are all scams.

Also, here's what I found on the Better Business Bureau site for Ace:

06/24/2019


I was Approached by this company to get an offer to sell my
timeshare, the name of the agent was Amanda and when she
couldn't convince me she transferred me to Larry J******, one of
the "brokers", I found his voice very familiar since I have been
scammed with this same process in the past, it was the same
guy trying to get me again, then I looked up the website's IP
address and I found out that it is the same as ******* ********* *****,
** ****** **********, ** ********** **********, and a few others that
resulted to be a scam. The guy asked me for money upfront and
I contacted the resort and they told me that it was a fraudulent
company, here's the resort's phone number ###-###-#### so
you can follow up regarding this company.​You get the same sort of stuff when you do a search for 1913 Capital Group.


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## bogey21 (Nov 30, 2019)

If i were you, I would just ignore them.  I surely would not be consulting with and paying an attorney at this point.  I wouldn't do anything until and unless they did something to try and collect the $2,812.40 commission.  If/when that happens, I would decide what to do...

George


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## T-Dot-Traveller (Nov 30, 2019)

Welcome to TUG & your first post & thread .
Glad you figured this out BEFORE sending $$.

I agree with Eric - 100%

also - I am 100% percent sure no “paperwork” was ever filed by these scammers with Vidanta .
so continue to use your Grand Mayan for vacation value .
The TUG Mexican Forum has good information on using and enjoying Vidanta resorts
and Mexico - so please visit again .

*******

If you ever wish to end ownership with Vidanta - it is not hard and can be done at no cost to you.

If it is the older 25 year contracts and specifically one with the 10% transfer cost (around 2003)- you can likely give it away on TUG .
If it is a newer contract that has the 10 year renewals and the 5 x MF transfer cost to a new owner it may be easier to simply contact Vidanta Member Services .

With either type of contract - a transfer to an immediate family member ( children & grandchildren) is FREE .

Vidanta / Grupo Mayan has always sold 100 year Right to Use contracts that also have various easy “exit points” along the way . This also benefits them as the get inventory to recycle into new ownerships  they can sell ; when folks who bought many years ago decide that their travel &  vacationing days are over.


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## presley (Nov 30, 2019)

Sounds like a normal scam. I don't think there's anything they can do to collect any money from you. Bottom line, they said you don't need to pay anything up front. They have breached the contract. I would cut off all contact with them, unless you just want to tell them that they breached the contract and you are out because of that.


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## RX8 (Nov 30, 2019)

The “breach of contract” is just part of their scam. They will not sue. Why would one involved in fraud ever want to come near a court house?  Also they are located in Mexico. This is an old scam that works in that enough people pay the “ upfront tax” to keep them going. The threat of a lawsuit if one gets wise to the scam probably fills their pockets too. 

Best advise is to block their calls and move on.


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## TheTimeTraveler (Nov 30, 2019)

All the red flags are flying high.  Ignore them, walk away, and get some sleep.   The lawsuit threat is also a scam, so wait to see something in writing that shows up in your mailbox (which you won't because that will then become "Mail Fraud").




.


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## mp562 (Nov 30, 2019)

I appreciate everyone's input.  I'm am somewhat worried that they will file paperwork and that it will go to court - but this shouldn't be the case.  I will take your advice and block their number and only worry about it if I do ever get served court papers, which probably won't happen.  I'm not sure if they are in Mexico or not, they could be.  The phone number does show up from Philadelphia, but it's not that hard to get a phone number to show up from anywhere around the world these days with the internet.  I was contacted by another one MB Realty, but I didn't respond to their e-mail and surprise, surprise, the website doesn't work, e-mail doesn't work, etc, which is what caught my eye the first time.  I did see that others had dealt with MB Realty on the forum as well.


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## mp562 (Nov 30, 2019)

T-Dot-Traveller said:


> Welcome to TUG & your first post & thread .
> Glad you figured this out BEFORE sending $$.
> 
> I agree with Eric - 100%
> ...



Thanks for the warm welcome.  This is a great group and I wish I would have found it before we ever got into the timeshare to begin with.  Interesting, well, we do like the resort, but we still use our exchange weeks rather than the actual timeshare weeks as the overall cost is lower.  But if we do decide to get rid of it, I'll post on here.  We've been to three of the resorts and do like it, but I'm having my doubts about when the theme park will open - we did see a lot of construction, but nothing near an opening of a park.  We were also sold on the idea of the theme park in 2018.


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## Iggyearl (Nov 30, 2019)

mp562, here an earlier post on MB Realty.  https://www.tugbbs.com/forums/index.php?threads/mb-realty.292455/#post-2351881

Once you get on a list, it gets circulated.  You are lucky you caught on to this quickly.  Once you send money to Mexico, the scam includes additional demands for money.  Like Value added tax, capital gains tax, sales tax, and any other "tax" they can think of.  The scam ends when you stop sending money.  Don't worry...  Criminals don't take honest people to court.


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## T-Dot-Traveller (Nov 30, 2019)

mp562 said:


> Thanks for the warm welcome.  .... but I'm having my doubts about when the theme park will open - we did see a lot of construction, but nothing near an opening of a park.  We were also sold on the idea of the theme park in 2018.



We were at the Mayan Palace Nuevo Valarta  last week / did not do a presentation  but I was told 14 months  for part 1 ( the water park ) by one of the folks who tries to get you to go to a presentation. Even they will tell you that is "Mexican Time " .

There is now earth moving to the north side of MX 200 and a large Vidanta sign .
I have no doubt it will open , AND IN STAGES .  . 

1) the toll road to Guadalajara is closer to completion (also on MX time schedule) - when it is done the drive time from a metro area of 5 +million will be about 3 hours.
All of PV-NV and Vidanta will get a summer bump in visits by Mexican Nationals . A theme park & water park is a big draw & money maker .

2) It will open in stages - not only because of construction timelines but because of staffing requirements . Greater Puerto Vallarta is experiencing full employment in peak season .
Vidanta already has a fleet of 32 busses that are used to get employees to the NV property and they run 3 shifts a day . It is an employment perk that helps get and retain employees .

3) Vidanta recently opened Jungala in Riviera Maya . I am sure they will use that project and its operation to further refine the water park portion of  Nuevo Celebrate Park .
Cirgue will be a visit area within the greater park .


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## 747Av8r (Feb 26, 2020)

mp562 said:


> Hi Everyone --
> 
> We could really use your help on this one.  I've read through a lot of other red flags/scam messages on the forums but I haven't seen any advice for if you've signed a sales agreement and then realize it's a scam.
> 
> ...


MP562: can we talk?  I am experiencing a near-identical situation.  747AV8r


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## T_R_Oglodyte (Feb 26, 2020)

mp562 said:


> They even sent us the Citibanamex bank account statement - which we called and confirmed that the account is valid and that the money was in it.  We did not provide the amount to CItibanamex when we called, and they told us what it was which matched the statement.  They also provided us their realtor sales information which was confirmed with the Pennsylvania board and everything, again everything seemed legitimate.


1. Are you sure that you actually talked to Citibanamex?  Sophisticated scammers have been known to fake documents and offices.  They could easily have fabricated the statement, with a phone number on the statement that is controlled by them and dedicated to respond as if it was a Citibanamex office.  

2. Are you sure the realtor information is valid?  Again, timeshare scammers have been known to steal and use realtor identities.  So if you check the credentials with the state, the credentials are valid. But the real person has no idea their identify has been stolen.  To check this you could try contacting the realtor using the contact info in their state licensing record, not the contact info provided by the scammer.  If you actually do get a positive confirmation using the state licensing information, then you should make consider filing a complaint.


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## Eric B (Feb 26, 2020)

747Av8r said:


> MP562: can we talk?  I am experiencing a near-identical situation.  747AV8r



@747Av8r, @mp562 only visited TUG that one day, so is probably unlikely to reply to you.  There are a fair number of experienced timeshare users that do participate frequently here that would no doubt be happy to help you out, though.  I stand by my comments to @mp562 still; his situation and likely yours have all the hallmarks of a fraud.  Nobody ever calls to seek out buying Mexican right-to-use contracts resale for good money because the resale value is actually only in the use of the resorts.


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## T_R_Oglodyte (Feb 26, 2020)

Eric B said:


> @747Av8r, @mp562 only visited TUG that one day, so is probably unlikely to reply to you.  There are a fair number of experienced timeshare users that do participate frequently here that would no doubt be happy to help you out, though.  I stand by my comments to @mp562 still; his situation and likely yours have all the hallmarks of a fraud.  Nobody ever calls to seek out buying Mexican right-to-use contracts resale for good money because the resale value is actually only in the use of the resorts.


Oh ..... I just noticed that this is a several months old thread. .....

Anyway, for reference the description above is quite similar to the Sierra Rentals and Resales scam:









						Any experience with Sierra Rentals and Resales??
					

Hi,  Recently I was entertained with a Purchase Offer on my Velas Vallarta timeshare in the amount of $15K, by Sierra Rentals & Resales.  I was so excited to receive the Purchase Offer.  However, they just send me a Transfer Expenses letter and ask for $1195 which will be reimbursed at...




					tugbbs.com


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## RX8 (Feb 26, 2020)

747Av8r said:


> MP562: can we talk?  I am experiencing a near-identical situation.  747AV8r



It appears that MP562 has moved on. Curious, are you currently involved with this company or are you wondering if they are legit?

Ace Properties LLC is 100% scam. Appears they hijacked the business name as well as a real broker’s name in their scam. There are a couple of unanswered complaints at the BBB and the website for the company listed at the BBB is no longer active, which is common because they change business names to keep one step ahead of the complaints.









						ACE Properties LLC |  Better Business Bureau® Profile
					

This organization is not BBB accredited. Timeshare Resale and Rental Marketing in Philadelphia, PA. See BBB rating, reviews, complaints, & more.




					www.bbb.org


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## mp562 (Jun 19, 2020)

Hi RX8, just saw your post, I'm still here.  I am no longer involved with them and have ignored them as everyone has suggested.  I haven't heard from them since the whole fiasco.


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## mp562 (Jun 19, 2020)

I did receive a call the other day from a new person and will not be returning their call, but if anyone else gets a call from someone named Mark at Your Premier Properties Real Estate Group at phone number (347) 429-7342 x1808 please ignore them as it's most likely a 100% scam.  I also tried looking up their website, looks like they registered it on 11/27/2019 and it no longer works yourpremierpropertiesrealestate dot com


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## mp562 (Jun 19, 2020)

747Av8r said:


> MP562: can we talk?  I am experiencing a near-identical situation.  747AV8r


Hi 747Av8r, just saw your post, sorry for not responding sooner, I've been very busy actually despite everything going on in the world these days.


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## mp562 (Jun 19, 2020)

Eric B said:


> @747Av8r, @mp562 only visited TUG that one day, so is probably unlikely to reply to you.  There are a fair number of experienced timeshare users that do participate frequently here that would no doubt be happy to help you out, though.  I stand by my comments to @mp562 still; his situation and likely yours have all the hallmarks of a fraud.  Nobody ever calls to seek out buying Mexican right-to-use contracts resale for good money because the resale value is actually only in the use of the resorts.


Hi Eric, I've learned from my whole experience and will not fall for it again. I'm trying to continue reaching out to everyone and educating them about the dangers of these characters.  I'm always happy to help another in need.


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## mp562 (Jun 19, 2020)

T_R_Oglodyte said:


> 1. Are you sure that you actually talked to Citibanamex?  Sophisticated scammers have been known to fake documents and offices.  They could easily have fabricated the statement, with a phone number on the statement that is controlled by them and dedicated to respond as if it was a Citibanamex office.
> 
> 2. Are you sure the realtor information is valid?  Again, timeshare scammers have been known to steal and use realtor identities.  So if you check the credentials with the state, the credentials are valid. But the real person has no idea their identify has been stolen.  To check this you could try contacting the realtor using the contact info in their state licensing record, not the contact info provided by the scammer.  If you actually do get a positive confirmation using the state licensing information, then you should make consider filing a complaint.


Hi T_R_Oglodyte in response to your questions: 

1. Yes, we actually talked to them and did not provide them any information other than the account information.  They confirmed all of the information that we had, but I think they have someone working on the inside there.  I even used the number on their website and not the statement.

2. I believe the information is real, but I also believe someone else was using the information and that the person I was talking to was not the person on the license website.  The guy even took me to the state board website and showed me everything like it was him.

These guys are really good, I'll give them that, but never again.


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## mp562 (Jun 19, 2020)

Actually, 747Av8r and I spoke on the phone, I wish I could do something to get him his money back.  I told him I would be happy to join him in a class action law suit if we could get something like that going.


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## RX8 (Jun 19, 2020)

mp562 said:


> Actually, 747Av8r and I spoke on the phone, I wish I could do something to get him his money back.  I told him I would be happy to join him in a class action law suit if we could get something like that going.



Glad this is all behind you.  These scammers are very good at what they do.  They have been at it for years because there are enough people that fall for it. Unfortunately, a class action lawsuit won’t happen.  Who is an attorney going to sue?  The US company is fake (although they may assume the identity of a real company) and the unknown criminals are based in Mexico.

TUG has been warning people of these scams for many years.  Sad thing is that people who fall for it don’t find TUG until it is too late.


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## mp562 (Jun 19, 2020)

RX8 said:


> Glad this is all behind you.  These scammers are very good at what they do.  They have been at it for years because there are enough people that fall for it. Unfortunately, a class action lawsuit won’t happen.  Who is an attorney going to sue?  The US company is fake (although they may assume the identity of a real company) and the unknown criminals are based in Mexico.
> 
> TUG has been warning people of these scams for many years.  Sad thing is that people who fall for it don’t find TUG until it is too late.


That makes two of us.  That's kind of the problem, no one to really go after, but if we were able to actually find someone then we could.  However, that's not likely.  I'm glad that TUG is here.


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## Karen G (Jun 19, 2020)

@mp562 thanks so  much for coming back to let us know how this all turned out. I've moved this thread to the Mexico forum as we often get inquiries about this type of scam, especially for properties in Mexico. Glad you didn't pay those scoundrels anything!


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## mp562 (Jun 19, 2020)

@Karen G me too, I'm so glad I listened to everyone on here.  The attorney I was talking to also said the same thing, so you guys definitely give great advice and it works.  I only hope to get the word out to as many people as possible and I know you're doing a great job !!


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## toppats (Jul 14, 2020)

mp562 said:


> Hi Everyone --
> 
> We could really use your help on this one.  I've read through a lot of other red flags/scam messages on the forums but I haven't seen any advice for if you've signed a sales agreement and then realize it's a scam.
> 
> ...


Almost identical experience my next door neighbor is going through now with selling their timeshare.  Unfortunately, they have now been scammed out of $3500, the first go around, then another $3100, and now supposedly the paperwork is being held at the Mexican border for some insurance baloney for additional $2500.  I've told her about this group and to not send any more money.  Trashing them on the internet or filing complaints I doubt will do any good.


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## toppats (Jul 14, 2020)

mp562 said:


> Hi Everyone --
> 
> We could really use your help on this one.  I've read through a lot of other red flags/scam messages on the forums but I haven't seen any advice for if you've signed a sales agreement and then realize it's a scam.
> 
> ...


Unfortunately our neighbor just lost $7500 to a company who goes by: Real Time Property Investments funneling through Santander Bank.


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## mp562 (Oct 9, 2020)

toppats said:


> Almost identical experience my next door neighbor is going through now with selling their timeshare.  Unfortunately, they have now been scammed out of $3500, the first go around, then another $3100, and now supposedly the paperwork is being held at the Mexican border for some insurance baloney for additional $2500.  I've told her about this group and to not send any more money.  Trashing them on the internet or filing complaints I doubt will do any good.


Yes, please tell them to stop.  Hopefully your next door neighbor will start listening to you.  These guys won't do anything if you just ignore them, they'll just move onto the next person.  You're right because they'll just change names, phone numbers, websites, email addresses, etc...  Sorry that your neighbors are going through that.


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## mp562 (Oct 9, 2020)

Just wanted to get another name out there in case anyone runs across this new scam.  I did not return the call and immediately blocked the number, but he may me making the rounds, so be aware.

John Patterson
(347) 429-7342 x1814


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## bogey21 (Oct 9, 2020)

mp562 said:


> The attorney I was talking to also said the same thing...


I hope you haven't been paying an attorney.  If you have, you have been wasting your money.  There is absolutely no need for one here...

George


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## mp562 (Dec 1, 2020)

bogey21 said:


> I hope you haven't been paying an attorney.  If you have, you have been wasting your money.  There is absolutely no need for one here...
> 
> George


Hi George, I signed up for Legal Zoom and it was well worth the $200 for 6 months.  I didn't renew but was happy with the service I received.


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## mp562 (Feb 14, 2022)

Hi Everyone --

Just wanted to update everyone, I recently received calls from two people offering to buy my timeshare, always be on the alert for scams.

Max William
Century 21
(888) 208-1560
- offering to buy my timeshare

Jim Rice
Investor Management
(303) 214-5018 x711
- offering to buy or rent a few weeks of my timeshare

Hope everyone is having a good year so far !!


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