# Sticky - Mexican Timeshare Presentation Boot Camp



## Karen G

Often people will find TUG after they've been through a high pressure timeshare presentation and bought something that they didn't understand.  Most of the time they have discovered their mistake after the rescission period.  We have a sticky thread at the top of the Mexico forum describing the Mexican rescission law to know about before going to a presentation, but in this thread let's discuss what actually happens in such a presentation, and how to protect yourself.

Of course, the best way to avoid being taken advantage of is by NOT attending a presentation. But, if someone is so inclined as to accept the "free" gifts and enticements, what advice would you give him or her? Feel free to name names of companies you've dealt with and educate those who have never been to a presentation.

Added 4-24-15:  Watch this tv report about a presentation in Puerto Vallarta:
http://sacramento.cbslocal.com/video/11423455-call-kurtis-investigates-mexican-timeshare-nightmare/ 
TUG owner Brian Rogers is in this report, too.


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## mikenk

Okay, I will be the first to jump in based on my experience with the Grupo Mayan system (now Grupo Vidanta). These are my experiences and thoughts but in no way claim i have it all figured out.

I bought a Grand Mayan unit on resale a few years back after attending a couple of presentations while vacationing with friends on RCI exchanges. I have since upgraded twice through the company. in total, I have attended about 9 or 10 of the upgrade presentations (they always have something more to sell you and i am always ready to negotiate)

The entry level I believe now is the Grand Mayan; it used to be the Mayan Palace but they are trying to phase out of that as people upgrade. I believe that all new folks will be sold at that level. Then later they will be offered upgrades to the Grand Bliss or Grand Luxxe. 

The Grand Mayan units are basically a right to use piece of property. They used to offer bonus weeks with the package called Vacation Fair weeks - don't think they do that anymore, but not totally sure. The Grand Bliss and grand Luxxe contracts are significantly different as they also include things like free golf, free massages, senior discounts and whatever you can negotiate - much more flexible contracts. Grupo Vidanta does not want these on the resale market so they add high transfer fees and strip away the amenities if you sell it. However you can transfer them and add and delete people to the contract. 

That's a very quick primer on the system. As a non owner. if you choose to take the initial presentation: here are some thoughts.

1: There are the contracted sales folks trained in the art of fast talking; then there are the contracts people who sign and will administer the contracts; i have little use for the first; have had no problems with the second. In fact, I frequently communicate with one via email.

2: Consider anything the sales people say a lie unless they will put it in writing signed by a contracts person. Whatever is in the contract - they do honor. 

3: Remember you are in control for 5 days; whatever they put in the contract, they have to honor; whatever you agree to can be easily rescinded. I did it twice during my first upgrade. when you rescind, you are dealing then with the contracts people. If they do meet your demands and they might, read every word in the contract several times. The contract consists of the standard document and the addenda signed by the contracts person. Make sure whatever you agreed on is clearly stated in the contract.

4: Know the features and cost of the GM unit on the resale market (they vary a lot by year); let them know you know; and don't budge. Since I bought resale, I don't know whether they will start negotiating around the different amenities or upgrades when you first start.

5: IMHO, if there is no price and amenities that will make you buy, my suggestion is don't go - not worth the time. if you are interested, know the price point and amenities where you would buy knowing full well what you can buy on resale and the value to you of the extra amenities. e.g. The free golf and the no MF unless I use were huge benefits for me when I upgraded. 

6: last point, these sales people are generally engaging 30ish age people; use your experience to keep in control with clear focus. It is really not that difficult. Again, at the minimum, you will waste a couple of hours, is it really worth it if you have no interest, but do not go in without a plan and knowing the resale value.

The upgrading process is a little different - enough for now.

Not sure at all whether this was helpful.

Mike


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## pjrose

*My Perspective*

I agree completely with Mike, though my experiences vary.

I have been to many presentations at The Royal Resorts, and only once felt a bit pressured by an over-enthusiastic salesperson (he was new).  Their presentations consist of a ride to one of the resorts, brunch or lunch, a walk around the resort and one of the villas, and then they discuss price and availability.  The time in the meeting room is not long - maybe 30 minutes if you listen politely and say "no thanks" - and then you can hit the pool or beach.  Nonetheless, it's still time out of your vacation.  

The Royal Resorts do not have a "menu" of options like some other resorts - the price is fixed (except for some reductions such as 10% off for owners) and there are no amenities to add on or subtract.  The contract is standard for everyone, so there are no extras or deletions.  Nonetheless, be very aware that resale is almost always less expensive than the original developer prices.  Let them know that you know about TUG and eBay, and ask to see what they have available in resales (e.g. owner defaults).  Take the prices back to your villa and get online and shop around (eBay, TUG, Redweek etc.)

We occasionally read on TUG of people who have changed their minds right after buying through the Royal Resorts, and have just gone back to the sales person and gotten it cancelled without a hassle.

HOWEVER, I have also been to other presentations - here's what to watch out for:

READ EVERYTHING, take notes, take down names and times and promises.  Then go back to your unit and read over all of it.  DO NOT agree to anything until a day or so later - trust me, the deal that is "today only" will still be there tomorrow.

DO NOT SIGN any kind of a waiver of your right to cancel within five days. It is not legal for them to ask you to sign, but this practice will make you think that you can't chance your mind, when you absolutely can.

DO NOT SIGN-UP for a presentation or leave a deposit while you are in an airport or public place - you may have trouble getting your money back, and it may not be clear what you are signing up for.

DO NOT BELIEVE any promises that they will sell your existing timeshare(s) for you (usually at a high price) and take that off the cost of the new one.  Check online (eBay, TUG, Redweek etc) to find out what your timeshare is worth - probably far far less than they may be promising.  If you do sign your timeshare over to them, they will probably NOT sell it, you will probably still be responsible for maintenance fees, and you will not have use of it.  

DO NOT BELIEVE promises that they will rent your units at exorbitant rental rates so that you can make money.  Depending on the timeshare, if you rent you may well be able to recoup your maintenance fee or even get back double or more (e.g. a beachfront Royal Resort during New Years) but in general you will break even if that.

WATCH OUT for situations where you may be "held captive" - we went on a "free boat ride" and had no way to leave a high pressure presentation (except perhaps to swim).  

DO NOT SIGN UP FOR any credit cards - people have returned home only to find a bill from a new card they didn't realize they had.

DON'T DRINK ALCOHOL at a presentation - a few free drinks aren't worth the risk of spending tens of thousands of dollars you might not otherwise have spent.

BE PREPARED with your answers - No thanks, currently unemployed, filing for bankruptcy, cheaper at resale.  

HAVE SOME COUNTER-MEASURES handy - wear a TUG t-shirt, bring a crying baby, develop a sudden bad stomach flu.

The best advice, though, is to not go.  This is your vacation, and it's usually not worth losing a half-day or a day of it for a sales presentation.  Unless the incentive is VERY GOOD (e.g. tix for four to XCaret?) and you know you are good at saying No, just don't go.


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## Karen G

*Cabo presentations*

We bought our Pueblo Bonito Rose fixed week unit from the developer about 14 years ago before finding TUG. We've used it ourselves for most of those 14 years and always have a good time in Cabo.

We've routinely attended the PB presentation each year specifically to recoup some of the marketing expenses we paid dearly for when we bought from the developer. It was worth it to us to give up a couple of hrs. of our vacation in exchange for $200+ in vouchers that we could use for meals at PB. It was also interesting to see what the PB Sunset Beach looked like after another year of building.

We've also attended presentations at many other Cabo resorts. They all seem to operate the same way:  You are approached by an OPC (outside personal contact) guy or girl either at the airport or in town and invited to come take a look at a resort. They entice you with promises of cash or activities or some other type of gift, usually starting with something and sweetening the deal with other things as they try to convince you into going on the presentation. They usually require a $20 cash deposit, which will be returned to you after the presentation. They give you a copy of the written invitation with the gifts indicated that you are to receive, and the date and time of the presentation.

Sometimes they'll meet you at the appointed time and escort you to the presentation or they may get a taxi for you. They often meet you outside the gates of whatever resort you are staying as they aren't allowed on other timeshare properties if they're trying to get you to go somewhere else.

Be sure they write down exactly what they are promising you and be sure you understand what it is they are offering you. Decide if it's really worth it to give up your vacation time to go through a high pressured sales presentation.

When you get to the resort, you check in and you're assigned to a sales person who takes you to the dining area where the breaksfast is served. Often the meal is very good; sometimes not so much. There will be a time of chit chat with sales person and they are usually very congenial and engaging.

Then it's on to the sales room where they describe how RCI or II work, ask you about how you vacation and what you typically spend, tell you about their resort, show you models, and get into the specifics of their program and costs. Often you are passed on to another sales person if you don't buy from the first one. You may also be offered some kind of "exit" program if you still haven't bought. Then you are ushered out and go to receive your gifts.  If they promised you return transportation you go and wait for a taxi.

If you end up buying they'll make a big to-do about your purchase with lots of fanfare, maybe pop open some champagne, all for the show for other prospects in the vicinity to see that someone has made a purchase. You'll have to sign lots of papers and then you'll probably get some kind of book or slick pamphlets about the product. 

Of course, you should carefully read and understand exactly what you are signing.  If promises were made to you that the company would buy your existing timeshares or anything else, you need to see that in writing. Nothing the salesman tells you will be enforced if it isn't in writing.

The big problem with these high pressure procedures is that by the time you get to the signing part, you are so worn down and tired and not thinking straight.  You think you heard the salesman promise something and you think it must all be spelled out in the contract just like he said. So you sign without reading it all and you go on your merry way. After the five-day rescission period has passed and after you get home, you may find out that you have been lied to or tricked into signing something you wouldn't have if you had been more prudent.

LET THE BUYER BEWARE.

Sometimes the salesman will try to make you feel guilty for coming to the presentation for the gifts with no intention of buying anything.  My opinion is that they invited me, and it's their method of marketing, not mine.  If it's not working for them, they need to change the procedure.


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## mikenk

I agree with all of PJROSE's suggestions and Karen is right on with the procedural process. Karen also reminded me of the exit interview. At the GM, it is now HSI; if you don't buy the other, at least buy this at a mere $5k or so. 

IMHO, don't even think about that as a viable option.

mike


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## John Cummings

Mike has given some excellent information. Though we have stayed 10 weeks at the Grand Mayan resorts as an exchanger, we have never been to a sales presentation there. The sales presentations may be brutal but they don't pressure you to attend one. At check-in we told them that we don't do sales presentations and that was it. They never bothered us after that.

This discussion should not be limited to just Grupo Mayan sales presentations. The majority of sales presentations in Mexico are equally as bad. I am not saying all of them are that bad but the vast majority are. They have a lot more latitude to lie and threaten in Mexico than most other countries. The Grupo Mayan probably gets a lot more publicity because they are the largest resort group in Mexico.

We attended a sales presentation at the John Newcombe resort in Puerto Vallarta several years ago. I don't know what it is called now. In any event they offered us a bunch of great tours so we went. We were well prepared as I have lived and worked in Mexico, am fluent in Spanish, owned a business there, and my wife is Mexican. In any event it became somewhat nasty but we knew how to handle it so needless to say we didn't buy anything and did get our tours. We met a young American couple at the pool that also took the sales presentation. They said it was brutal and they threatened to throw the couple out of the resort and all kinds of other dire threats if they didn't buy. Fortunately the young couple were able to resist and didn't but anything.

After that we decided that there is nothing that anybody could offer us to entice us to do any sales presentations no matter where. Our time and tranquility are worth far more. We had done 2 presentations before in the US at 2 different resorts where we own but they were very pleasant with no pressure at all.

Having said all of this, my advice is simply DON'T go to any sales presentations. You are already at the resort so you you should know whether you like it or not. If you want more information, talk to other guests at the resort. Do research on the Internet. Don't be in a hurry because you can always buy at anytime in the future. Check resales.

My personal opinion is don't buy a timeshare in Mexico. They are very easy to trade into at anytime of the year. This means that they will have low trading power. If you want to buy a timeshare, buy a good quality timeshare in the US with good trading power that you would like to visit yourself.

We have not only exchanged into the Grand Mayans, but also the Royal Mayan, and several others in various locations.

If you really feel that whatever goodies are being offered are worth going to a sales presentation then be prepared to pay a high price for it.


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## John Cummings

At the time the rest of you were posting, I was writing my post so I didn't see any other than Mike's.

The other previous posts offer great information as well.


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## cmh

mikenk said:


> I agree with all of PJROSE's suggestions and Karen is right on with the procedural process. Karen also reminded me of the exit interview. At the GM, it is now HSI; if you don't buy the other, at least buy this at a mere $5k or so.
> 
> IMHO, don't even think about that as a viable option.
> 
> mike



What is HSI?


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## mikenk

HSI is Holiday Systems International. i think they are called a vacation club. On the surface, it sounds reasonable. They rent out basically non prime weeks from developers through various names. When we upgraded, a membership came along with it - never found anything worth using. it costs some amount per year; not a whole lot but for me added no value. Maybe others have had better experience.

i believe there are a number of similar companies.

Mike


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## sally13

*keeping them honest...*

One more small post of advice..

DO GO to any presentation you like!!

DO GO OFTEN!!...

After 90 minutes or whatever they promised..(this time DOES NOT INCLUDE BREAKFAST!!)...Tell them you want your gifts NOW!!  You have served your time!!......if they give you the run around....tell them firmly..you will stand up, and declare in an extremely loud voice..YOU CAN BUY THESE WEEKS ON EBAY FOR A BUCK!!

You will be on your way!...Just do not be snotty or nasty about it. talk calmly and respectfully...


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## Jameslucas

*[Deleted]*

[Off-topic & duplicate - DeniseM Moderator]


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## CatLovers

*Grupo Mayan (now Grupp Vidanta) at Nuevo Vallarta*

As several TUGgers already know  , we let ourselves be talked into (against our better judgment) a timeshare presentation at the Grand Mayan Nuevo Vallarta on January 4, 2011.  For us, it was THE experience from hell, and we did not even buy!  Cannot imagine what I would be saying now if we got suckered into it!  My full review is posted in this thread.  
http://tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=138295​
Posts #2 and #3 talk specifically at some length about the orchestrated steps in their sales process, beginning with the timeshare shark who chased us down the hallway after check-in to the end when we finally stumbled out of the sales hall clutching our _*free*_ gifts. My first piece of advice is DO NOT attend the presentation; no matter what they offer you.  It is not worth it!  However, if you do choose to attend a timeshare presentation with Grupo Mayan (Grupo Vidanta), then do read at least these two posts -- forewarned is forearmed!


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## Conan

Since most people reading this probably are not Mayan owners interested in upgrading, for the rest of us I would emphasize:

If you're going purely for the gift (which for a non-owner really is the only reason to go, since it's always a mistake for a first-time purchaser to pay any more than a resale price), 

   1.  Make sure it's worth the vacation time you're spending.  For me the answer is usually 'no' unless I'm actually curious to see the property I"m touring (so for example I did tour Sunset Beach in Cabo - - the gift was exceptional and it gave me a chance to see a property I was curious about), and

   2.  Ask yourself if you can tolerate being insulted to some degree - - many tours, especially in Mexico, have some of the "buy or cry."  The salesperson will try to guilt you over touring for the gift, and may also tell you that you're too dumb to see the value he/she is offering, or maybe just too poor.  If you're going to spend hours or days of your vacation fuming over the way the salesperson spoke to you, you'd have been better off not attending no matter what the gift was.

And make sure you don't buy the "exit" package, typically sold by a sympathetic owner's representative who will encourage you to vent about how frustrated you were with the sales force.  Once you've said no to spending $10,000 or $20,000 and you've escaped the sales force, you might be vulnerable to buying something for 'only' a couple of thousand.


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## mikenk

*Grupo Mayan upgrade presentation suggestions*

In Post #2. I made comments primarily targeted toward first timers taking the Grand Mayan sales presentation. Those comments also apply toward those taking the "Update presentation" but there are differences all should know about. 

First off, Grupo Mayan always has something new to sell even to owners. They want cash, we want vacation goodies - reasonable premise. Whereas the first buy is generally a typical timeshare buy - you get the right to use and you pay a yearly MF, the upgrades to Grand Bliss and Grand Luxxe are totally different: You get more room and luxury but you also get other stuff like free golf, free massages, no MF unless you use, senior discount packages, etc - none of which you can sell on the open market. So doing an upgrade is much more of a ROI calculation; how many years does it take to pay back the extra cost with vacation goodies. largely, all upgraded contracts are unique as all of these perks are in addenda. 

The price you pay for an upgrade is based on the amount already paid into the current contract. You get that amount regardless of whether you bought resale; so the higher price the original owner paid will lower the upgrade cost. The extra amenities you get are based on your negotiation skills.

Having been through a number of these, these sales presentations can be as high pressure as the original or very low key. One of mine was only 20 minutes, but others have been very confrontational.

In addition to the other tips in my first post, here are a few more.

1 -  Go in with written complaints on your current contract. i have actually received a couple of addenda to my old contract based on this. It also puts you a bit in charge.

2 - have a clear plan of what you want and what you are willing to pay - just like buying a car. If no level of goodies will make you update, I would again suggest not going - why go car shopping if you don't want a car. You can still take your complaints directly to member services. 

3 - Again remember you are in complete control for 5 days - the pressure is on them not you. You are just losing time. You have plenty of time to read the contract and make your ROI calculations. 

4 - If you decide to take the presentation, do it early so you have the full 5 days to rescind while on site. Do NOT leave the site with unaddressed concerns; there is always next time if you so choose.

Mike


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## Carol C

This year's gimmick at Mexican resorts is the "personal butler" who will come to you poolside or beachside with a cold wet towel, spritzer bottle, etc. Sure it sounds good but is it worth paying developer's price? Ladies, just get your hubbies to spritz you with cool water...heck, have them feed you grapes poolside and save pesos!


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## ABTUG

*Canceling in 5 days but contract says 7k deposit is non-refundable*

Hi
this is my first post and wanting to know if i they can really keep my deposit money.  Per Visa, the purchase has not posted yet, we just signed contract yesterday.  When we went to see sales rep today, she said we have to come back and talk to their contracts people, we can cancel but we will NOT get our deposit money back per the contract we initialed and signed.
Yet it also says in tiny print in back that you can cancel in 5 days without penalty so how can they consider keeping 7K as without penalty?


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## ABTUG

*[Duplicate posts merged]*

We signed a purchase contract yesterday but it says on our contract the deposit of over 7K is non-refundable even though we are canceling today so well within our 5 day period. can they really not give us our money back? even though the contract also says in fine print that you can cancel in5 days without penalty.
we have contacted visa who told us it has not posted but to contact VIsa again on monday to talk with their dispute department.  By then the charge should have posted.


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## pjrose

ABTUG - see if you can file a dispute online, or at least send an email to your Visa Card's customer service online - that way you have a dated record.


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## pjrose

ABTUG said:


> Hi
> this is my first post and wanting to know if i they can really keep my deposit money.  Per Visa, the purchase has not posted yet, we just signed contract yesterday.  When we went to see sales rep today, she said we have to come back and talk to their contracts people, we can cancel but we will NOT get our deposit money back per the contract we initialed and signed.
> Yet it also says in tiny print in back that you can cancel in 5 days without penalty so how can they consider keeping 7K as without penalty?



ABTUG - 
I don't know the answer, but see if you can file a dispute online, or at least send an email to your Visa Card's customer service online - that way you have a dated record.


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## Passepartout

ABTUG that is purely a scare tactic. It's illegal and you should expect everything to be refunded. If they continue, threaten them with going to Profeco to pursue what's rightfully yours. Show them the 'fine print' promising full refund. 

We're sorry your vacation time is unhappily spent dealing with a moment's indiscretion, but happy you found TUG before it is too late to remedy.  

Best wishes...

Jim Ricks


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## Karen G

ABTUG said:


> Yet it also says in tiny print in back that you can cancel in 5 days without penalty so how can they consider keeping 7K as without penalty?


Only what is written in the contract is enforceable and it clearly states that you can cancel without penalty. They are just trying to intimidate you.  Follow the written procedure for rescinding. Follow up with Profeco if necessary. Contact your credit card company--maybe even send them a copy of your rescission letter and the part of the contract that states that you can rescind without penalty.


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## Karen G

ABTUG said:


> Hi
> When we went to see sales rep today, she said we have to come back and talk to their contracts people


Another thought: She is most likely trying to delay you so that the five days will pass before you get your chance to rescind.  The contract people probably aren't working on the weekend. If you are going home this weekend, be sure to mail your rescission letter first thing Monday morning so that it is dated within the five days. If it's possible, while you are still in Mexico, write out the letter & make a copy for yourself. See if you can get someone in the sales office to sign and date your copy upon receiving it so that you'll have that proof of rescinding. Do whatever it takes to get your rescission documented and dated.


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## ABTUG

*Non-refundable deposit even if cancel in 5 days? [duplicate posts merged]*

We signed contract yesterday that says deposit is non-refundable even though in tiny print in back it says contract can be canceled in 5 days without penalty.  Our deposit was on visa for over 7K.  How can they not consider keeping the deposit is not a penalty.  Please advise


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## DeniseM

_*I have merged the 3 threads you started on this topic - if you have more questions/comments, please post them in this thread._

That is a common falsehood that the Mexican timeshare sales people try to tell.  You have the right to rescind and you should do so immediately.

Did you pay with a credit card?  You should call the credit card company immediately and let them know that you are canceling this purchase and you do not what your credit card charged.  If it's already been charged, let them know you are canceling and dispute the charge, and block all future charges.

Here is an article with more info. about rescinding - it was written for a different resort, but everything else applies to you.

*Don't delay - you only have 5 days!  And don't talk to sales any more - they will NOT help you - just rescind!*


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## pjrose

You should follow their instructions to the letter, i.e. mail or fax or whatever they say - but however you do it, be sure you have dated proof - a registered mail receipt for example.  If you did this on Friday, you have till Wednesday - but don't wait that long, do it NOW.  

Again, try to file a dispute for the CC charge NOW, online.


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## tatmtr7

*leery of offer in Bucerias*

Okay we were approached today by the Grand Lux salesman at Mega in Bucerias.  The offer is $200 usd for 90 min which we know we can go and stay for our time and leave.  We have done many a tour and declined. The offer that came after that was 500 if we have 2 different credit cards and go to a different presentation in Bucerias at some new place that the name sounds like "Tranquilities".  The 2 different credit cards required makes me very apprehensive. We can sit for a morning and can say NO but the other offer is a different situation.
Thanks


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## pjrose

I'd be concerned if they want to take your cards and run them through.....
I wouldn't do it, but if you do, I suggest making sure that you have IN WRITING that it will take xxx minutes, that you will get the $ after xxx minutes, and that they will not charge your card for anything without your signature.  

And then, DON'T SIGN ANYTHING!!!!!


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## easyrider

I don't see how it would matter how many cards you brought to a presentation as you don't let them have them unless you buy. All the presentations we attended we just showed our card without it ever leaving our sight.

Grand Lux is about a four hour dealio even if you say no no no. And no.


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## Tropical lady

*don't think so......*

A Grand Luxxe sales person would not be at the mega at Bucerias, a street corner, or the airport.  They are at the resort.  The resort has warned everyone about these people in addition to the ones at the airport who say they are there to take you to the resort then turn around and charge for the transportation.  The GL transportation from the airport is complementry.  I agree....do not give any credit cards unless you want to buy and only then.  Why two??  I think Tranquilities was mentioned in a previous TUG post.  You say you have been to other presentations, so you probably are prepared, but don't go unless you have an interest.


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## Barbeque

Tropical lady said:


> A Grand Luxxe sales person would not be at the mega at Bucerias, a street corner, or the airport.  They are at the resort.  The resort has warned everyone about these people in addition to the ones at the airport who say they are there to take you to the resort then turn around and charge for the transportation.  The GL transportation from the airport is complementry.  I agree....do not give any credit cards unless you want to buy and only then.  Why two??  I think Tranquilities was mentioned in a previous TUG post.  You say you have been to other presentations, so you probably are prepared, but don't go unless you have an interest.



Tropical Lady,  The Salespeople for the Mayan resorts are all over the Puerto Vallarta and Nuevo Vallarta area   They are so plentiful you might compare them to cockroaches. We have traded into the Grand Mayan twice (Through SFX) in Nuevo, We have also stayed at the Club Regina twice and Paradise Village.  When we stayed at the Grand Mayan they had us wear a Grand Mayan Bracelet  they said it was for security and maybe it was partly but it is also to tell the OPC (Which I think means Off Premises Contact) that we were staying at the Mayan.  The salesman in town will leave you alone if you have on a bracelet as a owner or exchanger in the Mayan Resorts.  This is why you dont see them.  The letter is a ploy to keep you away from the other competitors  we have seen the letter too.    I would say in the times we have been to the area we have seen more Mayan salespeople on the streets than any  other resort.  
WE are not brave enough to take a tour of the Mayan resorts but they are very nice to stay at.  
One of my favorite stories we were in Marina Vallarta and were approached by an OPC for the Mayan resorts who asked "How about a short tour of the Mayan Resorts?"  I told him that we had been there almost a week and a tour of the Mayan Resorts is one thing I really wanted to do but no one asked us all week.  I told him we were going home in the morning.  I thought he would drop his teeth he was speechless.   It was a hoot :hysterical: :hysterical: :hysterical:


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## CatLovers

Barbeque said:


> Tropical Lady,  The Salespeople for the Mayan resorts are all over the Puerto Vallarta and Nuevo Vallarta area   They are so plentiful you might compare them to cockroaches. We have traded into the Grand Mayan twice (Through SFX) in Nuevo, We have also stayed at the Club Regina twice and Paradise Village.  When we stayed at the Grand Mayan they had us wear a Grand Mayan Bracelet  they said it was for security and maybe it was partly but it is also to tell the OPC (Which I think means Off Premises Contact) that we were staying at the Mayan.  The salesman in town will leave you alone if you have on a bracelet as a owner or exchanger in the Mayan Resorts.  This is why you dont see them.  The latter is a ploy to keep you away from the other competitors  we have seen the latter too.    I would say in the times we have been to the area we have seen more Mayan salespeople on the streets than any  other resort.



Unfortunately, Barbeque is 100% correct.  We were wearing Grand Mayan bracelets and we wondered why we were not harassed while several of our companions were.  The two sharks came right out and said "Oh, because you are already staying there."  We asked how they knew ... the bracelets of course!  Plus the "warning" the Mayan folks give you is quite hilarious.  It's bright neon yellow and they give you two versions in your "Welcome" packet.  I'll try and attach a copy to this post, but if I can't, here is the short version:

They are deeply concerned about the unethical hysterical tactics used by other resorts in the area to persuade their members and guests to attend their timeshare presentations.  Blah, blah, blah.  It ends with "If you have accepted one of these invitations, please contact the Hostess Desk in the main lobby area and we may be able to honor your invitation.  :hysterical: Right, trade in one piece of hell for another!


----------



## rpennisi

*MP owner's update experience*

When we checked in (Jan 8th), getting our bands at the MP, we were asked by Jorge to take the update...no...10% disc, approx. 50% off trips, and 1000 pesos...no...2000 pesos...no...2500 pesos...no...When asked again and again why not, we stated we didn’t want the pressure and the stress with 90 minutes becoming hours.  That’s when Jorge told us *we can leave after 90 minutes *(beginning with breakfast time), and *importantly*...he would give us the discounts, etc. to our account..not the salesmen.  We reluctantly agreed and guess what?...there was no pressure...no stress.
We stayed 45 minutes beyond the 90 minute time, but that was because I wanted to get our “equity” numbers and an offer.  After I got that, I said “no thank you, and we are leaving now”...no hard sell, just thank you for coming and we walked out.
Several points:
Right off, I mentioned to our saleswoman, that I am on TUG, Yahoo MP owners group, TripAdvisor and a top 10 RCI contributor and loved trading with RCI.
I have been to more Mayan properties than she, and knew more about the layouts and changes to those properties over the years.
I was told that they no longer use the high pressure tactics, that they are salaried and not dependent on commissions.  This may be true for current owners, maybe not for non owners.
Most of our time was spent: going to breakfast, eating, walking through the models and then walking back to the GM.  

The numbers used to calculate the future MF’s and 5 yr extra MF were very inflated (I didn’t argue them).  And, they calculated the 5X MF renewal after 25 years (will not happen)....to come up with a 20K+ cost for my 1 and 2 Bdrm MP contracts.  Their offer: $10,800 cost to me for 3 weeks GM usage per year (they really want to get rid of MP weeks and VF weeks).  I would pay only the MF's for what I used each year.  I would also give up my MP contracts.  I like using my split up 2 bedroom MP on RCI to get 2 weeks non Mayan trades.  I said, “No thanks” and that was it.

PS  We got everything we were promised initially.


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## Tropical lady

For someone who is about to go to a Mexican resort and be exposed to the presentation process, most of the posts here give good, detailed information from different experiences.  No need to repeat.
Most, if not all resorts, have people trying to interest you in their resort.  You will find them everywhere tourists are. In my opinion they are not sales people, their goal is to get you to a presentation.  I don't recall any contracts being signed on a side street or in the Mega.  Obviously, if you have a bracelet indicating a particular resort they are not going to spend time trying to get you there.
Just be aware that there have been tourists who gave deposits for a tour, etc, as part of a presentation "gift" and the tour never showed up to get them and they were out money.  This happened to others we spoke with during our stay in NV and this is one of the reasons our resort put out warnings.....yes on bright yellow paper.  Also, people were conned out of the complimentry transportation from the airport, then charged a high amount.  It certainly does not hurt to be made aware if this is happening.
It comes down to....if interested go to the presentation armed with info, if not....don't go! If I'm not interested I'm not going to give the street hawkers 2 seconds of my vacation time and less than that complaining about them.


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## BradC

Karen G said:


> If you end up buying they'll make a big to-do about your purchase with lots of fanfare, maybe pop open some champagne, all for the show for other prospects in the vicinity to see that someone has made a purchase.


My favorite timeshare sales presentation moment was at Club Regina.  Throughout our presentation, we were surprised at how many champagne bottles were being popped all around us.  Each time, right after the POP, every salesperson in the room would applaud, and we were really surprised at how many people were actually buying.

When we finally said NO enough to be released, they brough over a bottle of champagne and offered a glass as a final thank you.

Sure enough:  POP!  Clapclapclapclap.

We couldn't stop laughing.


----------



## Vera V Christopher

*Complaint About The Grupo Mayan And The Reneging Of Their Promise To Return Money*

[FONT="Georgia"]:annoyed: [/FONT]

THE GRUPO MAYAN ARE HANGING ONTO MY MONEY AFTER PROMISING TO RETURN IT TO ME.  THEY HAVE SENT DOZENS OF EMAILS PROMISING THAT THEY WOULD RETURN TO ME THE MONEY OWED AND INSTEAD WHEN I ERASED ALL THE COMMENTS ON THE DIFFERENT WEBSITES EXPLAINING MY SITUATION THEY RENEGED ON THEIR PROMISE TO GIVE BACK THE MONEY PAID TO THEM.  THEY CANCELLED THE CONTRACT AND PROMISED TO GIVE BACK THE MONEY AS SOON AS ALL THE COMMENTS MADE ABOUT THEM WERE REMOVED.  THEY HAVE NOT BEHAVED CORRECTLY AT ALL.  

SINCE MAY OF 2008 I HAVE BEEN WAITING FOR MY MONEY AND EVEN WHEN ALL THE COMMENTS WERE ERASED THEY DID NOT RETURN IT.  INSTEAD THEY CAME UP WITH ANOTHER CONTRACT TO SAY THAT I SHALL PROMISE NEVER TO WRITE ANY COMMENTS OR SAY ANY COMMENTS ABOUT THEM OF A NEGATIVE NATURE.  WELL, THEY LET ME DOWN BADLY AND REFUSED TO CONTACT THE LAWYER WHO ACTED AS ESCROW AGENT TO ENSURE THAT THEY WOULD NOT RENEGE ON THEIR PROMISE.  TO NO AVAIL.  THEY RENEGED.

WHAT TO DO WITH SUCH A COMPANY?   IS THIS WHY THEY HAVE MOVED TO MEXICO?  THERE WERE A LOT OF COURT CASES IN THE U.S. AGAINST THEM.  I HAVE SEEN SO MANY COMMENTS FROM DISGRUNTLED AND CHEATED CUSTOMERS.  I BELIEVE STRONGLY THAT THEY HAVE DEFRAUDED ME OF THIS MONEY WHICH IS NEARLY FOUR THOUSAND U.S. DOLLARS AND IT NEEDS TO BE PAID BACK WITH INTEREST PLUS THE FEE OF MR. STEPHEN BOYD (£350) SHOULD BE COVERED BY THEM.

THEY HAVE BEEN VERY UNFAIR TO ME.  WHEN I WENT TO THEM TWO DAYS AFTER THE INITIAL RIP OFF THEY SIMPLY PLAYED IT ALL DOWN AND GAVE ME BACK NOTHING.  THEY JUST THREW AT ME "WHY DID YOU SIGN".  THE COFFEE THAT I WAS SERVED SEPARATELY FROM THE BUFFET BREAKFAST WHICH WAS "FREE" AND ALL "FIVE STAR!" WAS NOT KOSHER.  HOW IS IT THAT I COULD NOT STAND UP PROPERLY AFTER DRINKING THE "COFFEE".  I WAS UNABLE TO WALK WITHOUT SITTING DOWN EVERY SO MANY FEET.  IT WAS AWFUL AND MY EYELIDS WERE CLOSING ALL THE TIME EVEN THOUGH I HAD HAD A FULL NIGHT'S SLEEP AFTER OUR JOURNEY FROM LONDON.  I AM ALONE, AND HAVE NO FAMILY TO SHARE A STUDIO WITH THEM.  IT WAS MISREPRESENTATION ON THEIR PART.  THEY NEVER SAID THAT THEY WERE TIMESHARE AT ALL.  NEVER USED THE WORD ONCE.  THEY USED JARGON THAT I HAD NEVER HEARD BEFORE.  I WAS NOT SURE THAT THAT WAS ALL ENGLLISH, IT IS ALL MADE UP EXPRESSION FOR THIS "BUSINESS" THAT THEY ARE RUNNING.  AND ALL TO GET YOU INTO A FLUSTER AND CONFUSION.  

THEY HAVE HAD AMPLE OPPORTUNITY TO RETURN THIS MONEY OWED.  IT BELONGS TO ME AND NOT TO THEM.  THERE IS NO DEAL AND NEVER WAS ONE IN REALITY.  IT WAS ALL MISREPRESENTATION FROM THE BEGINNING.  THEIR REPS AT CANCUN AIRPORT WERE SELLING "CHEAP TRIPS" AROUND MEXICO NOT TIMESHARE.   MY COMPANION BOUGHT TWO TICKETS AND I ENDED UP HAVING THESE TWO REPS AT OUR HOTEL THE NEXT MORNING AT NINE A.M.  THEY HAD PARKED JUST OUTSIDE IN THE ALLEYWAY BY THE SIDE OF THE HOTEL.  THEY DID NOT PARK IN FRONT OF THE BUILDING WHERE WE WERE STAYING AND WHERE ALL THE OTHER CARS PARKED.  THEY WERE THERE AT THE SIDE LIKE HIDING.  WHEN I ASKED THEM WHY THEY HAD PARKED LIKE THAT THEY SAID THAT THE HOTEL STAFF WOULD BE "JEALOUS"! BECAUSE OF THE SUPERIOR ACCOMMODATION THEY HAD TO OFFER...!!!  WELL IF THAT IS NOT A STORY.   THEY MUST HAVE BEEN THERE BEFORE AND THE HOTEL STAFF WOULD RECOGNISE THEM AND TELL US NOT TO BE INVOLVED WITH THEM.

ANYWAY, THIS WHOLE EPISODE HAS BEEN VERY UNPLEASANT.  THE MONEY NEEDS TO BE RETURNED IN FULL WITH INTEREST DUE TO SUCH A LONG TIME IN WAITING FOR IT TO BE RETURNED.  PLUS THE ESCROW AGENT, THE LAWYER IN THE U.K. WHO WAS DEALING WITH THEM, THEY IGNORED THEM AND SIMPLY DISAPPEARED.

SO WHAT ARE THEY TO SAY NOW?  THEY ARE HIDING IN MEXICO WITH PEOPLE'S HARD EARNED MONEY.   THIS IS NOT RIGHT.  IT IS A SERIOUS ABUSE.  THE LAWS IN MEXICO ARE NOT RESPECTED BY THEM EITHER AND THE COOLING OFF PERIOD IS NOT RESPECTED BY THEM.

I HAVE BEEN VERY PATIENT BUT IT IS REALLY RUNNING OUT NOW.  IT HAS DRAGGED ON FOR TOO LONG.


----------



## mikenk

This was an earlier reply from a Grupo Mayan representative on similar issues. i would suggest you contact her.

Mike
--------------------------------

"We invite you all to contact us regarding your experience with us, as part of our daily quest for improvement and high regard for customer satisfaction. 

We assure you that each situation will be analized to be able to resolve any pending issues you may have with us.

We hope to continue this dialogue by having you all contact us directly at 1 (800) 292-9446 or by email at: grupomayanblog@grupovidanta.com.

We are a team of devoted Customer Care workers and we take pride in hosting at our resorts thousands of happy clients that can safely attest to our dedication to our members and guests. We would like you all to be satisfied members as well.

Sincerely, 
Karen Rose
Customer Support Representative."


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## Grupo Mayan

*we are happy to be given a chance to share our side of the story*

Dear Ms. Christopher (and readers):

We are truly committed to customer satisfaction. Our members and our guests are our highest priority and we work hard day and night to make sure your vacations in Mexico are amazing each and every time. 

We often monitor blogs in an extra effort to satisfy any customer that for some reason did not call us but decided to complain online. In rare occasions, we come across blog posts like these, and we are happy to be given a chance to share our side of the story. We take any slander against our hard working team very seriously and we work hard to ensure our reputation and the jobs of thousands of individuals that work diligently to please all our guests is not put at risk by false and unrestrained accusations such as these.

Despite Ms. Christopher´s false accusations, we actually attempted to work things out with her numerous times in the best possible manner for all parties involved. We can safely confirm that we have resolved many cases in good will, after being approached by dissatisfied clients. As Customer Service advocates, we appreciate the opportunity to make our clients happy and by establishing a direct route of communication, we get the chance to analyze each case individually and find the most suitable solution.

Unfortunately, we exhausted every possible way available to us to reach an agreement with her without reaching a solution. Beyond reason, we were asked to provide her legal team with several free services on our behalf, we were also asked to reimburse a long list of alleged expenses unrelated to her visit, and finally her accusations are completely false and utter fabrications in an attempt to obtain resources from the company.

Ms. Christopher has another post online where she complaints about a resort in Turkey:  http://www.badhap.com/i_was_ripped_off/ms_vera_v_christopher.aspx . We do not have any information to verify her story.

Therefore, our position stands and we will be more than happy to resolve any pending issues with Ms. Christopher as long as it is within the legal boundaries and resolution dispute agreed upon in writing in her contract with us. Ms. Christopher, once again, if you have any further complaints we would like to address them directly via phone with you. We will no longer continue to monitor this blog or any further replies by you. We will not continue entertaining libel online. We are true to our commitment to excellence, integrity, and above all your satisfaction.

For all other readers of this blog, please remember that the only way to assure that we get your message and follow-up, is to contact us at grupomayanblog@grupovidanta.com or by telephone at 1-800-292-9446.

We truly appreciate your time.  

Sincerely, 
Karen Rose
Customer Support Representative.


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## am1

If they have wronged you, you should not take what you wrote online down if it is true.  Others deserve to know how the resort operates.

Good luck in your fight.


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## Tropical lady

*Hmmmmm......*

Just to clarify......are you saying that this has been going on for almost 3 years?  With all the emails they sent to you about returning your money, your lawyer should have no trouble resolving this.


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## CatLovers

After a recent very negative experience with Grupo Mayan, I googled them and discovered that words such as “con-men”, “cheaters”, “swindlers”, “scam artists”, “liars”, “crooks”, “dishonest”, “corrupt”, and “fraudulent” were only just a few of the epithets used repeatedly to describe this organization.  The Better Business Bureau in the U.S. gives this company a rating of F, the lowest possible given by the BBB.  

In fact, I was so disgusted with the behavior of their salespeople that I blogged about them on my leadership practices blog.

Fortunately, I did not get "sucked" in to purchasing anything from them, but my heart goes out to you for what you say you've had to live through.  Don't give up, and good luck!


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## pjrose

You'll have a better chance if you lay out the facts in chronological order, with as much evidence as possible.  If you indeed have emails saying that the money would be refunded, then as Tropical Lady points out, there shouldn't be an issue.  

I suggest that you keep your complaint to the specifics of what happened, what you were told, when, by whom, and copies of the dozens of emails.  

Skip the ALL CAPS, the comments about the coffee (unless you are claiming it was spiked with alcohol? - and if so, can you verify that?), whether you are alone, where they were parked, and anything else that is not specific to the purchase and promises made and broken.


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## mikenk

Realistically, no one really has a clue as to what really went on in this particular situation - I suspect a lot more than reported. Of course, we all assume whatever we want.

We all know about the Grand Mayan reputation for high pressure sales,  However, I also know from personal experience that the signed contract is fully and fairly administrated by the GM member services people. It would appear that this is some sort of contract dispute as opposed to the general case of people wanting out of the deal. 

I believe the OP would do much better by calling Karen Rose and doing so with a level head than shouting here.


Mike


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## Passepartout

I just thought it is interesting that after the OP posted her rant, 3 1/2 hours later there was a reply/retort (from Grupo Vidanta), complete with what appear to be background and additional info about the OP's posts from other sources. They obviously monitor the blogosphere and many forums for mentions of their name in less than flattering light. 

Many times we've seen retractions of allegations against Grupo, and I've suspected they are a condition that must be met before a refund will be issued. Some retractions and pleading with Mods to remove an offending post have thinly veiled comments that it was 'necessary to achieve desired results'. 

Comments above in the reply from Grupo lead me to wonder if the OP just didn't remove all her iterations of dissatisfaction from every place they got posted.

I agree that she should follow up by phone, clearly, without emotion or threat. While it would have been better if she had not made the Grupo purchase, we all know how difficult it is to get away from their salesrooms.

I wish her well and hope she can achieve satisfaction. It doesn't seem likely.

Jim Ricks


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## pjrose

Jim and Mike, I agree.  However, note the OP says she went to them two days after the original purchase - well within the five days grace period.  

Anyway, without a more clear description of the specifics, we really don't know what's going on.   

I recall another unclear complaint a month or so ago that we couldn't figure out.  We try to help, but can't if the posts aren't clear.


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## Tropical lady

*Hmmmmmmm....*

I wonder if we are ever going to get a reply, update, or whatever?  Mexico and Turkey (interesting review of the hotel) will obviously not be included in future vacation plans.


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## Vera V Christopher

*No Money In Bank From Grupo Mayan, No Stopping With Exposure On Internet*



am1 said:


> If they have wronged you, you should not take what you wrote online down if it is true.  Others deserve to know how the resort operates.
> 
> Good luck in your fight.



Thank you for the moral support in getting my hard earned money back from the Grupo Mayan.  Yes, until the money is in the my bank account there will be no removal of any comments on the internet.  And yes, if anyone is in doubt as to their validity just consider how much time and energy was spent in writing the whole account of what happened in Mexico and afterwards here in London seeking advice and getting to know about the whole timeshare system etc.  I did not know that we were dealing in some sort of timeshare until we were in the glass auditorium at the Mayan Palace!  And even then they were calling it something else.  My companion and I thought that we were being taken to a hotel like any other five star to look at and consider for the next year as a place to stay for two weeks. I thought that the two men taking us to the Mayan Palace were local travel agents.   Nothing more than that!  And I would not have gone in the first place had not my companion insisted that she wanted to see this "out of this world place!"  The scenery was pretty but we were feeling uncomfortable with all this sales pressure and hype...so many people there too!..I had no idea that they would ask me how much money I spent on the vacation I was on, and then they say you can pay the same again as a deposit.  That is how it is calculated!  All of this was new to me.  In England timeshare has a very bad name, and people keep away from it for the most part.  

Anyway, the long and the short of this story is that there will be no surrender, this is a battle to the finish....the money has to be put into my bank account before any comments made over the internet can be erased.  People should be forewarned.  "To be forewarned is to be forearmed!", as they say.  My experience has been very frustrating and stressful.  In fact if this case were brought before a judge in a courtroom I would most probably have compensation for a ruined holiday.  When I returned to England I had to get antibiotics for the asthma and bronchitis that I suffered upon my return.  I was in poor health. I was at home for some three weeks not able to function properly and it was warm in London, summer time.   I do not recall ever returning from a holiday like that, not ever!!!! Shame, as I like a lot about Mexico.  One day I hope that I really have a proper vacation there to enjoy and to remember in a good way.  Perhaps where it is dry, as Cancun is rather humid, especially in May with the rainy season being on, and the mosquitoes are legion there at that time of year.

THANK YOU FOR THE MORAL SUPPORT, FRIENDS!


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## John Cummings

Vera V Christopher said:


> I did not know that we were dealing in some sort of timeshare until we were in the glass auditorium at the *Royal Mayan Palace*!
> 
> I thought that the two men taking us to the *Royal Mayan Palace* were local travel agents.



Why do you keep calling it Royal Mayan? The Royal Mayan is one of the Royals resorts and has absolutely nothing to do with the Grupo Mayan resorts.

Exactly where were you?


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## pjrose

John Cummings said:


> Why do you keep calling it Royal Mayan? The Royal Mayan is one of the Royals resorts and has absolutely nothing to do with the Grupo Mayan resorts.
> 
> Exactly where were you?



I agree.  Ms. Christopher's comments slander The Royal Mayan.  

*Ms. Christopher, please correct all of your posts - here and in the Cancun Airport thread - so that you are warning people about the organization with which you had problems.  Your posts lose credibility when you are inaccurate, and unfairly hurt the reputation of a different resort.

I believe your problem was with Grupo Mayan, and you were taken to the Mayan Palace.  You were NOT at The Royal Mayan.    The Royal Mayan has no glass auditorium, and does not operate in the manner you have described.*

Thank you, though, for unlocking the caps lock key


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## Karen G

John Cummings said:


> Why do you keep calling it Royal Mayan? The Royal Mayan is one of the Royals resorts and has absolutely nothing to do with the Grupo Mayan resorts.
> 
> Exactly where were you?



I've corrected the resort name for her.


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## california-bighorn

*Give back incentive?*

I am certainly not going to defend the Grupo Mayan (Mayan Palace) as we were feed their lies and deceit at a presentation in PV years ago and are aware of their well deserved reputation.
What was the incentive to get you to come to the presentation?  Was it somewhere around 200-400 Pesos and a blanket?  I know most will probably disagree with me, but, to start I would tell them you will return anything and everything they gave you to take the presentation when the contract is cancelled.  That would show good faith on your part and might show you in a good light with your bank where you are attempting to get the refund.  Just a thought.  
Being ingorant (way before our TUG days) when we took the PV presentation, we bit and bought.  But, after getting back to our room and re-reading the contract and finding they removed some of the promises they made from the contract, I walked into the Sales Manager's office and returned the incentives they gave us and told them we were recinding. Still went thru the process described in the contract to recind to be sure, but it probably didn't hurt that I mentioned we had returned everything they gave us to attend.


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## pjrose

Karen G said:


> I've corrected the resort name for her.


Thanks. Much appreciated.


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## Tropical lady

*feeling left out....*

I had to show my husband this thread and the Cancun airport one too.  We are disappointed that during any of our presentations we did not have a chorus of reps, circling us,  singing "buy the deal of the century" (airport thread).  In addition our coffee and tea at breakfast was delivered by the waiter in no special uniform.....no bottles of coffee liquor given to us.
At first I agreed with Mikenk that this is better resolved with the company in a calm manner with no rants or embellishments, and just the facts.  Contrary to the statement that the company hides in Mexico, since that is where they are located, information for contact has been offered by the company.  But I read the post about the hotel in Turkey and realized that this won't happen.  This is not rational and sad. With these posts, including accusations like this, I think very little can be done to get any resolution.


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## mikenk

Tropical lady said:


> At first I agreed with Mikenk that this is better resolved with the company in a calm manner with no rants or embellishments, and just the facts.  Contrary to the statement that the company hides in Mexico, since that is where they are located, information for contact has been offered by the company.  But I read the post about the hotel in Turkey and realized that this won't happen.  This is not rational and sad. With these posts, including accusations like this, I think very little can be done to get any resolution.



Yes, I agree. The more I have read, the more I understand that this particular situation defies resolution. There is two things I know about the Grupo Mayan system: they do have a irritating contracted high pressure sales approach; they also have an excellent in-house members services / contract team that are great to work with. Unfortunately, many people have no ability to understand the difference and behave accordingly.

Mike


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## CatLovers

*Tropical lady* and *mikenk*, it is clear from your many posts here on TUG that you are "fans" of the Grupo Mayan resorts and love their facilities.  I think that is great.  It's important to have a fabulous time on your vacations.  However, not everyone is fortunate enough to have the same positive experience as you.  As yes Mike, before you jump in, while I can only speak for myself, I DO have the ability to separate "sales" from "operations".  

But please ... don't belittle or demean those who have had a horrible experience and cast aspersions on their truthfulness or their character.  They may not be as eloquent as you, but that doesn't negate their experiences.  Literally hundreds of postings on the Internet indicate that this outfit is capable of behaving exactly as the OP has indicated. A quick Google search on “Grupo Mayan sales practices” finds words such as “con-men”, “cheaters”, “swindlers”, “scam artists”, “liars”, “crooks”, “dishonest”, “corrupt”, and “fraudulent” as only just a few of the epithets used repeatedly to describe this organization.  The Better Business Bureau in the U.S. gives this company a rating of F, the lowest possible given by the BBB.  Surely you're not suggesting that these hundreds of people are involved in some sort of a collective conspiracy to bring down Grupo Mayan based on lies and untruths.  

Again, I think it's fantastic that your experiences have been nothing like what the OP has described.  But please ... consider yourself fortunate for your good luck and don't put down or discount others' experiences.


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## mikenk

Catlovers, the fact that Grupo Mayan has a high pressure sales process has been beaten to death on this board. They are very efficient at getting lots of people in the seats and they are very efficient at getting people signed up. As a result, they gets lots of complaints; I have never condoned any of these high pressure practices as I believe it is unnecessary, However, I also can put them in perspective regarding the overall quality of the resorts.

However, there are rants and raves from some that continue endlessly with innuendoes and statements that from my experience are just bogus - Spiked coffee - give me a break!!! IMHO, There is way more to this story than meets the eye. 

I realize you and many take everything at face value on every post particular if it serves your purpose; I don't; statements that don't match my experience and knowledge, I will challenge and continue to do so.

Mike


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## Vera V Christopher

*I Have Received An Email From The Grupo Mayan Saying That They Are Transparent*

*  *

It is not difficult for the Grupo Mayan at this stage to settle the matter of the return of money paid by me.  They know from my emails to them that I am perfectly willing to erase all comments, wherever I can, of previous posts JUST AS SOON AS THE MONEY IS IN THE BANK, ALL £4,075 of it!


It is up to them to show their seriousness and genuine wish to settle fairly and squarely.  There should not be any doubt as to my genuine intentions to sign a contract at the end of this near three year saga that no adverse comments will be made against them after settlement on their part.  Anyone who has a logical and fair mind will see that the ball is in their court to pay up and settle properly without further ado, and that the matter will be settled amicably if they do this as soon as possible on my part.  I have stated so openly on the internet and have no intention to default.  Neither do I have any intentions to receive only half of my money!

THE MATTER IS SIMPLE AND REQUIRES GOOD WILL AND SERIOUSNESS TO BE SHOWN ON THE PART OF THE GRUPO MAYAN WHO HAVE THEIR PRESENTATIONS AT THE MAYAN PALACE.  So sorry that I wrote Royal Mayan Palace.  This only goes to prove that no one is proof reading my posts and that I am a human and can make mistakes.  It is a David going against a Goliath situation.  And the Grupo Mayan have all the reps to write on the internet and this is only a single lady doing her best to get her hard earned cash back where it belongs - in her bank account.  

I do not see the logic of anyone at this stage writing so much to retrieve what belongs to me, what has been snatched from me under gross misrepresentation, not to retract her statements once the money has been paid in full by the Grupo Mayan and to "let sleeping dogs lie" at that point.  That defies logic and should not be entertained at all.  

Thank you all for your support.  I love people in the U.S.  I have many fond memories of my few years spent there!!!!     Once again, thank you.  Our motto is "Fight the good fight with all thy might!"


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## Vera V Christopher

*The Grupo Mayan Say That They Are Not Going To "play Games"!  Actions Speak Louder...*

  

Hello Grupo Mayan and dear readers:

I have told the Grupo Mayan that I shall continue with my posts until such a time as the $4,075 is in my bank account, that is THEIR part of the bargain.  MY part then, and only then, is to erase the comments made, as much as possible, and to then, and only then, sign whatever document they require me to sign to cease from that point forward to write any adverse thing about them online or by any other means of communication.  Very plain and simple.  It could not be simpler.  Paying half today of the whole sum of money on their part is not adequate.  I do not do anything by halves any more.  We go the whole way, all the way, to reach our destination and then there are no disappointments on either side of the bargain!!!   If the Grupo Mayan are serious now they need to show it with actions, which always speak louder than words.  No more communication by telephone is necessary now, as "transparent" people who do not "play games" are content to email occasionally only to confirm that they have paid the money into the bank account in full, which will then automatically bring this whole long saga to a decisive and positive conclusion, so that the settlement can be signed and the matter resolved properly, amicably and successfully!!!
I am sure that the readers agree with this approach at this stage.  There is no more room for stalling.  The ball is in the Grupo Mayan's court!

LET US SEE THEM PLAY FAIRLY AND SQUARELY WITHOUT DELAY!


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## Makai Guy

Just keep in mind that, when the resort makes it a condition for settlement that you have all your posts removed and you come crying back to us to have them all taken down, the more posts, the more difficult to do, and the less likely we are to fix your problem for you.


----------



## dioxide45

*Family (Canadian) terrorized in Mexican time-share scam*

http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Canada/2011/02/21/17355181.html


----------



## Vera V Christopher

*"stop Fraud" Post Is So True, Hear, Hear, Sir!!!*

Moved to existing thread on a related topic.  DeniseM Moderator

----------------------------------------

   

This gentleman is telling and truth and is speaking from experience.  The same experience that I and others seem to have had!!!!  The presentations are extremely dishonestly run and are "pressure tanks".  They subject a person to a gruelling "inquisition" as to your spending of money so far on your vacation and then go for the kill.  I recall that it is very intimidating and unpleasant!!!

I am sorry to hear that this gentleman did not get his money back.  I am glad to know that in his opinion the Grupo Mayan are the worst.  I have little experience of other timeshare companies but after having experienced so much anguish on account of this Grupo Mayan I can say that I am cured for life regarding timeshare!!!

It is sad that they can have this sort of effect on people and you are right, Sir, if only the US government would do something to make it more difficult for them to con so many innocent people like this.  It is scandalous that nothing is done about it on a higher level.

Well said and written, Sir, I agree with every word that you have written about the Grupo Mayan.  They are the pits, really they are!!!  They have to be.......

To fish tourists out at he Cancun Airport speaks for itself what methods are used by them!!!!   No decent company would practically stalk tourists to their hotel!!!  It's disgusting behaviour and clearly they seem to be able to do as they please in Mexico.  They are not restrained in any way by the looks of it!!!

This man is just one of so many who are writing on this website to air his grievance.  It is a scandal that so many people are being conned like this...it is daylight robbery!  It begs the question how long will it remain like this!!!


----------



## DeniseM

Vera - Please stop creating new threads on the same topic.  To comment on someone else's post, you should add your post to the SAME thread.



> Sir, if only the *US government *would do something to make it more difficult for them to con so many innocent people like this. It is scandalous that nothing is done about it on a higher level.



The US Government can't do anything about business practices in ANOTHER country.  Mexico is not part of the US.


----------



## pjrose

Vera V Christopher said:


> This gentleman is telling and truth and is speaking from experience.  . . .
> 
> I am sorry to hear that this gentleman did not get his money back.  I am glad to know that in his opinion the Grupo Mayan are the worst.



To what gentleman do you refer? How do you know he is speaking the truth?  He might or might not be - but none of us was there and none of us can know the truth of his experience. 



Vera V Christopher said:


> . . .
> 
> Sir, if only the US government would do something to make it more difficult for them to con so many innocent people like this.



Huh?  His experiences and yours were in Mexico, not the U.S.  Where does the U.S. government fit in to this?


Ms. Christopher, your case with Grupo Mayan will be more effective if you stick to the specific facts of your interactions with them.  Bringing in other situations, information, or allegations confuses the issue and weakens your case.

It also becomes quite annoying for those of us who try to help, as well as for the volunteer moderators who spend a lot of their own time keeping this board going.


----------



## dioxide45

Is Christopher even referring to the article that I posted? 



pjrose said:


> How do you know he is speaking the truth?  He might or might not be - but none of us was there and none of us can know the truth of his experience.
> 
> Also, Grupo Mayan was not identified in that article; there is no evidence that Grupo Mayan is the organization with which he had problems.
> 
> 
> 
> Huh?  His experiences and yours were in Mexico, not the U.S.  Where does the U.S. government fit in to this?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The article was written about the family's bad experience in Puerto Vallarta, Mexico, and they were approached on the Boardwalk, not Airport.
> 
> 
> Ms. Christopher, your case with Grupo Mayan will be more effective if you stick to the specific facts of your interactions with them.  Bringing in other situations, information, or allegations confuses the issue and weakens your case.


----------



## DeniseM

dioxide45 said:


> Is Christopher even referring to the article that I posted?



Sorry for the confusion:  She started another new thread about Grupo Mayan, and I moved her post to this thread, it just happened to be located after your post.  When threads are moved, they post by time and it just happened to come after yours.

She is apparently referring to some unknown thread from the past - *"stop Fraud" Post Is So True, Hear, Hear, Sir!!! * - that's why I advised her to post in existing threads, instead of starting new ones.


----------



## John Cummings

Vera V Christopher said:


> Moved to existing thread on the same topic.  DeniseM Moderator
> 
> ----------------------------------------
> 
> 
> 
> It is sad that they can have this sort of effect on people and you are right, Sir, if only the US government would do something to make it more difficult for them to con so many innocent people like this.  It is scandalous that nothing is done about it on a higher level...



The last time I checked Mexico was not part of the United States. This is an issue for Mexico to deal with, not the US.


----------



## pjrose

dioxide45 said:


> Is Christopher even referring to the article that I posted?





DeniseM said:


> Sorry for the confusion:  She started another new thread about Grupo Mayan, and I moved her post to this thread, it just happened to be located after your post.  When threads are moved, the post by time and it just happened to come after yours.
> 
> She is apparently referring to some unknown thread from the past - *"stop Fraud" Post Is So True, Hear, Hear, Sir!!! * - that's why I advised her to post in existing threads, instead of starting new ones.



Should I delete my post above?


----------



## DeniseM

pjrose said:


> Should I delete my post above?



If it were me, I'd probably edit out the top and bottom, and leave the middle and post something like [edited - because of misunderstanding] or something similar.  Again - sorry for the confusion.


----------



## pjrose

DeniseM said:


> If it were me, I'd probably edit out the top and bottom, and leave the middle and post something like [edited - because of misunderstanding] or something similar.  Again - sorry for the confusion.



ok, will do.

This series of posts has gotten highly annoying, is creating a ton of work for the mods, and will do nothing to help her case without a coherent list of specific actions, misrepresentations, promises, etc.  Is there a way for a TUGger to block posts from a particular user?


----------



## dioxide45

pjrose said:


> ok, will do.
> 
> This series of posts has gotten highly annoying, is creating a ton of work for the mods, and will do nothing to help her case without a coherent list of specific actions, misrepresentations, promises, etc.  Is there a way for a TUGger to block posts from a particular user?



There sure is. Just click on their user name and choose View Public Profile. There is then a link available to add the user to your Ignore List.


----------



## DeniseM

She has already been directed to stop creating new threads that essentially say the same thing.  If she continues, she may lose her posting privileges, because duplicate posting is a violation of the TUG Posting Rules.


----------



## pjrose

pjrose said:


> This series of posts has gotten highly annoying, is creating a ton of work for the mods, and will do nothing to help her case without a coherent list of specific actions, misrepresentations, promises, etc.  Is there a way for a TUGger to block posts from a particular user?






dioxide45 said:


> There sure is. Just click on their user name and choose View Public Profile. There is then a link available to add the user to your Ignore List.



Sorry Ms. Christopher.  In over 5,000 posts on TUG I have never before had to do this, and really, I do sympathize with your situation and have offered what I thought were some helpful ideas, but I'm going to have to make you the one and only person on my Ignore List.  The posts have gotten too repetitive and annoying to me, and has made the Mexico Board, one of my favorite places, unpleasant.

I wish you luck in resolving your situation with Grupo Mayan, but I don't think that bombarding this board and annoying members is the way to do it.


Dioxide - Thank you.  You can probably hear my huge sigh of relief.


----------



## Tropical lady

*enough....*

Please read my response in the thread "Rights to rescind" #57.  This is all over the place and I would appreciate my post read whether you agree or not.  I am frustrated!!


----------



## mikenk

When this thread was originally created as a sticky, I thought it was a good Idea to allow people to share their experiences to deal effectively with timeshare sales. Unfortunately, when these ranting threads were merged, the whole thread has become rather useless for people to learn as it has become basically nonsensical.

I suggest all these latest postings be put back into the normal threads and locked. People can read if they want, but please stop the repetitious ranting. It serves no purpose whatsoever.

Mike


----------



## John Cummings

I agree with Mike. This lady just keeps posting the same old thing over and over.


----------



## pjrose

mikenk said:


> When this thread was originally created as a sticky, I thought it was a good Idea to allow people to share their experiences to deal effectively with timeshare sales. Unfortunately, when these ranting threads were merged, the whole thread has become rather useless for people to learn as it has become basically nonsensical.
> 
> I suggest all these latest postings be put back into the normal threads and locked. People can read if they want, but please stop the repetitious ranting. It serves no purpose whatsoever.
> 
> Mike





John Cummings said:


> I agree with Mike. This lady just keeps posting the same old thing over and over.



I think I disagree.  If they are put back into other threads there will be a bunch of clutter.  

Useful threads - such as the airport one - shouldn't be locked because of one individual.  

I suggest using the Ignore as I just did.  These repetitive rants are an abuse of TUG and have got to be a huge headache for the mods.


----------



## John Cummings

pjrose said:


> I think I disagree.  If they are put back into other threads there will be a bunch of clutter.
> 
> Useful threads - such as the airport one - shouldn't be locked because of one individual.
> 
> I suggest using the Ignore as I just did.  These repetitive rants are an abuse of TUG and have got to be a huge headache for the mods.



I don't think they should be put back in other threads either. Maybe we need a thread called "Vera's Rants".


----------



## pjrose

John Cummings said:


> I don't think they should be put back in other threads either. Maybe we need a thread called "Vera's Rants".



I was going to suggest that too....her own personal thread.  "Vera's Complaints Against Grupo Mayan."

Ms. Christopher, please understand that your attempts to get your money back by posting negatively against Grupo Mayan are not helping you, because your posts are not specific and to-the-point, and because there are so many of them that they have become ineffective, and overall they have become very annoying to TUGgers.  

We are as a rule quite helpful people here, but with your current tactics, we can't help you.


----------



## mikenk

Regardless where it is decided to put her posts, it does not belong in a thread designed to help people learn. People do not want to weave through such posts to separate the wheat from the chaff. I agree that clear advice on how the airport system works and how to avoid is worthy of discussion but not weaved in with personal agendas. 

People visit TUG for a lot of reasons: to learn, to share, to have fun, to rant and rave, for personal and business agendas, and lately as a negotiating ploy. The more these can be separated - the better we all are.

Maybe we need a thread to allow all the ranters and ravers just to have their way - maybe it would be good therapy. People could tune in if interested but not feel hijacked. They could even use all caps.

Mike


----------



## pjrose

mikenk said:


> Maybe we need a thread to allow all the ranters and ravers just to have their way - maybe it would be good therapy. People could tune in if interested but not feel hijacked. *They could even use all caps.*
> 
> Mike


----------



## Vera V Christopher

*deleted*

_personal arguments_


----------



## Vera V Christopher

*deleted*

_deleted--stick to facts and not personal arguments_


----------



## Passepartout

MS Christopher, I have no axe to grind here, and don't own any Mexican resorts, so you can consider my comments unbiased. 

Any reasonable person can tell by your posts that you are upset by the loss of money by getting all wrapped up in a Mexican timeshare salesroom. That's too bad. You made the decision to attend the event while jet lagged and not at your best. That's too bad, too.  The bottom line here is that you appear to not have read your documents and followed their instructions for rescission in a timely manner after you became aware that the purchase was not a good fit for you.

As much as you feel that posting here and elsewhere that you feel somehow trodden upon by this company, the reality is that hundreds, no, thousands of people have rescinded successfully. Is it easy? NO. Continuing to rant and not sticking to facts, naming names, and maintaining a concise statement of the events surrounding exactly WHY they should vary from the printed legal instructions for you is folly. I doubt it will be successful.

It's unfortunate for both you and Grupo Mayan that you found each other before you found TUG. 

I truly believe that your continued ranting and bringing up tangential issues will simply be viewed as one customer who just couldn't be pleased no matter what. I truly believe that you have entered into a battle of wills, and I doubt that yours is stronger than theirs.

Thanks to the Moderators for putting this saga into the bootcamp sticky as a cautionary tale to others who may be headed to Mexico, thinking it couldn't hurt to accept a ride, breakfast, and a few bucks with these nice folks. 

Jim Ricks


----------



## Vera V Christopher

*deleted*

_Keep to the topic at hand--Mexican timeshare presentation experiences--and do not attack each other over different opinions about said experiences. Vera, your experience has been well-documented and does not need to be repeated. 

_


----------



## Karen G

Passepartout said:


> Thanks to the Moderators for putting this saga into the bootcamp sticky as a cautionary tale to others who may be headed into Mexico, thinking it couldn't hurt to accept a ride, breakfast, and a few bucks with these nice folks.
> 
> Jim Ricks


You are welcome, Jim. That's exactly why I've left Vera's story in this thread.   When controversy arose in the past few weeks about threads criticizing Grupo Mayan sales tactics, it was decided to try to keep all such complaints in one place in order to differentiate between their sales tactics and their actual resort operations.


----------



## DeniseM

*Vera - I have sent you an email and a private message explaining why you are having problems on TUG - have you read them?*


----------



## Vera V Christopher

*Went Personally To Rescind Two Days After Signing*



Passepartout said:


> MS Christopher, I have no axe to grind here, and don't own any Mexican resorts, so you can consider my comments unbiased.
> 
> Any reasonable person can tell by your posts that you are upset by the loss of money by getting all wrapped up in a Mexican timeshare salesroom. That's too bad. You made the decision to attend the event while jet lagged and not at your best. That's too bad, too.  The bottom line here is that you appear to not have read your documents and followed their instructions for rescission in a timely manner after you became aware that the purchase was not a good fit for you.
> 
> As much as you feel that posting here and elsewhere that you feel somehow trodden upon by this company, the reality is that hundreds, no, thousands of people have rescinded successfully. Is it easy? NO. Continuing to rant and not sticking to facts, naming names, and maintaining a concise statement of the events surrounding exactly WHY they should vary from the printed legal instructions for you is folly. I doubt it will be successful.
> 
> It's unfortunate for both you and Grupo Mayan that you found each other before you found TUG.
> 
> I truly believe that your continued ranting and bringing up tangential issues will simply be viewed as one customer who just couldn't be pleased no matter what. I truly believe that you have entered into a battle of wills, and I doubt that yours is stronger than theirs.
> 
> Thanks to the Moderators for putting this saga into the bootcamp sticky as a cautionary tale to others who may be headed to Mexico, thinking it couldn't hurt to accept a ride, breakfast, and a few bucks with these nice folks.
> 
> Jim Ricks



And you say that you are sick of my posts, you clearly have not read them or else you would have read that I went twice in person to the Grupo Mayan to rescind the contract and they wouldn't do it!  All within the five day period!  And I am not the only one, whole families have done so also within the time allowed and failed.   So why pick on me like this!  Why not look into why they will not cancel the contract.  You seem not to be interested in the facts here AT ALL!  Why not have a thread about what to do in a position like mine where they refuse to rescind within the time period!  And be constructive, not destructive?  I was clearly from a long way off, from Europe and was even more vulnerable that a US citizen in many ways.  But when you are greedy like the Mayan anything goes!  And where are the thousands of people who have "rescinded successfully".  I have not seen many of them on the websites!  And I don't believe that there are many at all....these are all biased statements.  And do you know some of these people personally who have rescinded?  I don't believe it....You are biased against a European as well.  That is the impression that I am getting!   It is not business practice it is all criminal in my opinion.  And there are many others who share my view.  Some people can't stand injustice, and you don't seem to be one of them!


----------



## Karen G

Vera V Christopher said:


> Why not have a thread about what to do in a position like mine where they refuse to rescind within the time period!


There is such a thread. In the first post of  this thread  there is a link to Profeco's brochure about the Mexican laws concerning timeshare presentations. It clearly states this about changing your mind:

• Take your time. Study the paperwork outside 
of the presentation environment. Read the 
contract thoroughly and verify it has a 
Profeco registration number and that it 
includes all the obligations and benefits of the 
purchase; the complete name and address of 
the developer representative; all the costs, 
By law, you have five business days to cancel 
the contract after you have signed it. If you 
decide to cancel the purchase within this 
period, notify the developer by email and 
certified mail. Keep the receipt as evidence you 
cancelled on time. 
You should receive a prompt refund of all the 
money you have paid, without any cancelling 
penalties, within fifteen business days. 
*If the developer refuses to do so or 
agruments you resigned to this right when 
signing the contract, you may contact 
extranjeros@profeco.gob.mx. To submit a 
formal complaint, you must send the following 
paperwork: a brief description of the problem, 
copy of the contract and of your ID.*


----------



## Passepartout

Vera V Christopher said:


> And you say that you are sick of my posts,



I said no such thing! Furthermore I stated in my first sentence to you that I am not nor do I have any reason to be biased for or against you. 

I have not read your contract. If it does say to rescind in person, you have a case, as do the others you claim to represent. If it gives other instructions, you don't. I'm sorry.

Anyway, since I don't have a horse in this race, I will let it go. However it works out, there's no skin off my nose. I wish you all well.... Jim


----------



## Vera V Christopher

DeniseM said:


> Vera - I have sent you an email and a private message explaining why you are having probelms on TUG - *have you read them?*



I am always grateful for constructive advice, and thank you for this.  I was to learn it the hard way, as you know.  I had not had any direct dealings with timeshare people before.  Only once my friend and I were trapped in a London office responding to a "gift" of a free vacation, and we got out of there by the skin of our teeth!  That was my first experience with a variant of timeshare and I never forgot it.  The man who appeared from the back office looked like he had been through jail a hundred times!!!  The signals were all there.  This time around at the Mayan I went there not knowing that it was a timeshare ... we thought that it was a travel agents selling vacations in hotels......genuine business, not hot air.  Well, it wasn't. Timeshare was never mentioned by them even once.  And I also went because my friend was older and I could not face her husband if anything had happened to her personally.  I was more at peace to be with her than to be in my hotel room worrying if she was OK.  Some people, not many, are conscientious and that is how I am...but I also needed to be wiser and not have the so called free food and drink, it was a mistake - and not to stay anywhere like that for so many hours.  That was clearly not good.  But realising only much later that it was timeshare, when it was late, put me in a very vulnerable position.  I could do very little, this time there was no "way of escape" as the first time.  The first time my friend was on my side also...we were both excusing ourselves all the time and got out somehow.  This time the "friend" was saying "Sign, sign," and that shocked me too....my frame of mind was really unable to make a proper decision.  It can happen, especially such circumstances.  

I realise that the timeshare industry is a labyrinth a total labyrinth full of snares.  There are too many parasites seeking to "live from" other people's misfortune also if you try to sell.  And yes paying up front is never a good idea, it is clearly a snare and a con.   I would know now for the future.  And wonder if there are any timeshare that are really honest.  I heard that Disney and the Sheraton? might be honest.  I am sure that there might be some others but very few relatively speaking are.....it does have a bad name here in the UK

I admit that I made a mistake by taking on board what the salesmen at the airport were saying to us....I would not have gone to the Mayan and told my friend to stick with the hotel rep...as she insisted I did not want something to happen to her.  By trying to help her I fell into the trap myself.  That can be very annoying, and discovering that she was hypocritically saying that she won't get involved with the Mayan as she "needs to speak to her husband", while pushing me into it alongside the reps. And even they were surprised!  The vacation was a big learning curve from beginning to end!


----------



## Karen G

Vera, have you ever contacted Profeco about your situation?


----------



## DeniseM

Vera - I am not talking about your timeshare experience - I am talking about your *posts on TUG.*

It is no secret that Mexican timeshare sales people can be unscrupulous - no one has a problem with that.

This is the problem with your posts:

1.  You keep posting the same thing over and over (you did it again in post #89).
2.  You personally attack anyone who disagrees with you.
3.  You keep starting new threads - with old info.
4.  You are responding to very old posts.

So it's not so much WHAT you are saying, as it is HOW you are posting on TUG.

If you continue, you may lose your posting privileges on TUG.


----------



## Grupo Mayan

*We will not continue entertaining libel online*

Dear Readers, 

True to our commitment to Customer Care and in an attempt to resolve Ms. Christopher’s situation in good faith; we contacted her and offered a resolution. Verbally, she had agreed to stop posting during our negotiations and accepted them without hesitation. 

Needless to say, she has made it clear it is not in her interest to cooperate in resolving this matter at all as she continues to post compulsively. We cannot negotiate in this manner. We have principles and our integrity is being compromised. 

We host thousands of satisfied guests every week and we measure the caliber of our quality through several mediums in an attempt to improve on a daily basis. In fact, the company employs and trains thousands of individuals that work hard day and night to satisfy each and every guest and her bogus accusations without support are unacceptable. We have received many certifications that prove her accusations are completely untruthful.

Therefore, as we had said before, we will not continue entertaining libel online and Ms. Christopher has our contact information if she would like to cooperate in the way we had offered to resolve this matter. We will no longer continue any communications with her if we are not contacted through the proper channels.

Hopefully one day, she will understand that our intentions are honest and she will let us complete our negotiations. 

Thank you for your time and understanding in this matter. We are truly sorry she is not letting us help her. 

Sincerely, 
Karen Rose
Customer Support Representative.


----------



## John Cummings

Grupo Mayan said:


> Dear Readers,
> 
> We host thousands of satisfied guests every week and we measure the caliber of our quality through several mediums in an attempt to improve on a daily basis. In fact, the company employs and trains thousands of individuals that work hard day and night to satisfy each and every guest and her bogus accusations without support are unacceptable. We have received many certifications that prove her accusations are completely untruthful.
> 
> Sincerely,
> Karen Rose
> Customer Support Representative.



We are not owners but have exchanged into the Grand Mayans in Nuevo Vallarta and Riviera Maya through SFX for 10 weeks.

We are definitely satisfied guests. The service by your employees is excellent and is the best we have witnessed in our 23 years of timesharing. You certainly train them well. We have gotten to know some of them very well.

We always fill out the comment cards.


----------



## easyrider

We also enjoyed our stay at the Grand Mayan in a very nice 2 bedroom ocean view in Nuevo Vallarta. 

The problem is the way these units are sometimes sold, not with the stay, imo.


----------



## jschmidt

[inappropriate post removed]


----------



## easyrider

[response to inappropriate post removed]


----------



## Vera V Christopher

*As Pointed Out My Complaint Is With The Mayan Palace Not Royal Mayan*



John Cummings said:


> Why do you keep calling it Royal Mayan? The Royal Mayan is one of the Royals resorts and has absolutely nothing to do with the Grupo Mayan resorts.
> 
> Exactly where were you?



Far be it for me to want to mislead the Tug-readers and participants.  I was taken with my companion to the Mayan Palace.   I have problems with the Grupo Mayan, that is the company that has a bustling glass auditorium with models in glass cases of the different resorts on offer.

Hope that everyone will understand my plight with these people.

I was certainly not a "stranger in paradise".

Vera


----------



## mikenk

The original intent of this sticky thread was to educate people on how to deal effectively with timeshare presentations everywhere; it has evolved to focus largely just on the Grupo Mayan system, which I would guess does far more presentations than any other resort (any statistics on this?)

As someone who knows their system very well, I am going to summarize what I know. This is intended for people reading through this thread trying to understand whether to take a vacation at one of the Mayan resorts.

The bad of the Grand Mayan system:
- Their sales process is high pressure, long, irritating, and there are promises made that do not make it into the contract. The prices for entry level are very high versus the resale market. 

The good:
- The resorts are high quality full service mega resorts - excellently maintained and with continual improvements. 
- The staff and service are first class - best I have ever experienced in my travels.
- The resorts are very well managed with consistent high ratings in best places to work in Mexico.
- The contracts (what you sign as an owner) are honored and the member services people are fair to work with.

How to defeat the bad?
- Simply don't go to the presentation. You will not be badgered - just say no.
- If you really want the goodies, read my advice earlier in this thread. It is easy to survive unscathed if prepared.
- if for some reason, you buy: Read the contract closely and fix or rescind within 5 days if everything is not as promised (it won't be). (beware, because their contracts are different and can be customized, direct comparison on the resale market is difficult)

My advice for people considering renting or exchanging in:
- If you do, you will have all the amenities for a great vacation
- Don't do the presentation if you are not up to it or prepared with knowledge; At the minimum, you will be irritated and lose vacation time, but for some, the experience will destroy their vacation.

My final thought, I know for many here the concept of high pressure timeshare practices trumps all in the quality of the resort; for others like me, it is just one of the things to consider in this jaded industry. 

Mike


----------



## Conan

mikenk said:


> My advice for people considering renting or exchanging in:
> - If you do, you will have all the amenities for a great vacation


 
One small clarification - - RCI exchangers will be limited to 1 exchange in the entire Mayan Group per 5 years, and generally will not have the ocean view that owners get.  Exchangers with other systems (SFX for example) and renters won't have these limits.


----------



## siesta

Conan said:


> One small clarification - - RCI exchangers will be limited to 1 exchange in the entire Mayan Group per 5 years, and generally will not have the ocean view that owners get.  Exchangers with other systems (SFX for example) and renters won't have these limits.


 to clarify your clarification, the 1 in 5 rule for Grupo Mayan has been suspended at all resorts besides Grand Mayan Cabo.


----------



## Vera V Christopher

*Why does anyone suppose that the BBB has given the Grupo Mayan the lowest rating?*

 
mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm!

Wonder why these Grupo Mayan people have received such a low rating from the BBB in the US?!

Anyone any suggestions?

THE TITLE HAS "BBS" INSTEAD OF "BBB", [corrected] AN REPUTABLE GOVERNMENT AGENCY TOO.


----------



## DeniseM

Vera - I am confused:  If you are negotiating a settlement with Grupo Mayan, why are you still posting?  Don't you want to get your money back?     

Also - remember not to start new threads (topics.)  If you have more to add, post it in THIS thread, by going to the last post and clicking on *"post reply."  *

In other words - do NOT use the *"new thread"*button.


----------



## mikenk

Vera,

It is very simple. Grupo Mayan has bad ratings because:
- They sell to a huge amount of people
- People don't like high pressure sales, particularly when not expecting it and not prepared
- People don't like to be told things that don't get written into the contract.
- Because GM is very effective at getting people signed up who then are mad that they did so and want out.

I have no clue as to what your particular issues are but I would guess that you have burned the bridges with GM contract services for any resolution.

Mike


----------



## Vera V Christopher

*Mayan Has Been Renamed By Its Unhappy Customers As The "lyin", For Good Reason!!!*



DeniseM said:


> Vera - I am confused:  If you are negotiating a settlement with Grupo Mayan, why are you still posting?  Don't you want to get your money back?
> 
> Also - remember not to start new threads (topics.)  If you have more to add, post it in THIS thread, by going to the last post and clicking on *"post reply."  *
> 
> In other words - do NOT use the *"new thread"*button.



There is nothing to negotiate with the Mayan.  That was all done last year and the year before that!  And a lawyer acting as escrow tried, and no satisfaction has been achieved.  They simply have not kept their word, but gone back on it......!

You speak as though they were reasonable people, well they are not.  They are proud and arrogant and not used to doing things the honest way and straightforward way.  They have asked for my bank details and they have them all.  It is a matter of putting their money where their mouth is and returning my money, that is all, in full, then I can "pull the plug out", send back their settlement contract all duly signed, sealed and delivered.  Otherwise how can I send back a settlement contract when they have not settled yet!  And I have no intention of receiving only half of my money back which was what they called for last Saturday by phone over the week end to try and achieve.  They are clearly "ruffled" to do that, as officially their offices are not working at the week end.  That is only official though.  As usual I was spoken at and not to, the lady just rattled off a ready made speech then immediately went on the websites to say that I have agreed and then not cooperated with them.  This is something I am getting used to.....it is nothing new.  I told them that as they claim to be "transparent" and are "not playing games" that to avoid misunderstanding they can keep to our communications in writing.  But they have not kept to that.   

I have bent over backwards to reach a settlement, but to get only half the money, send back the "settlement" when the matter has not been settled is ludicrous!  They say that they need the settlement signed before they can pay the rest of the money to me.   Well, I have no assurance that this will happen, and I am not going to expose myself a third time to this deception.  They claim that they have no assurance that I shall send back the settlement once they pay in full.  It defies logical thinking to think that way, as the matter will have been "settled" when they pay what is owed and there would be no logical reason for me to spend my precious time and energy writing posts etc. once the money is in my bank account.  But they are interested only in themselves it seems and how they can keep me "over a barrel" as they say here in the UK.  Well that time is gone forever, there are not more barrels over which I shall be kept!  If they want to have a settlement they must settle the matter by returning the money owed to me.  And for a multi million company that they are it seems strange that they should be hanging so tightly on to four thousand and seventy five measly dollars, not even having been charged interest on nearly three years of keeping this money in their bank!!!!  It is an insignificant amount of money for such a large enterprise but pride has gotten in the way and we all know what that is followed by.....the fall!

THERE IS NOTHING CONFUSING ABOUT THIS MATTER UNLESS YOU WANT TO MAKE IT SO DELIBERATELY!!!


----------



## Vera V Christopher

*deleted*

_Post deleted--complaints about moderators decisions should be addressed by private message_


----------



## Vera V Christopher

*deleted*

_deleted--see same explanation in post above_


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## Vera V Christopher

*You Are "skirting The Issue" Here, Mike.  Dishonesty Is The Main Reason! Cheating!*



mikenk said:


> Vera,
> 
> It is very simple. Grupo Mayan has bad ratings because:
> - They sell to a huge amount of people
> - People don't like high pressure sales, particularly when not expecting it and not prepared
> - People don't like to be told things that don't get written into the contract.
> - Because GM is very effective at getting people signed up who then are mad that they did so and want out.
> 
> I have no clue as to what your particular issues are but I would guess that you have burned the bridges with GM contract services for any resolution.
> 
> Mike




Having studied quite a few websites now about the Grupo Mayan it is the dishonesty that that people are complaining about more than anything.  They have been deceived, and many are very upset about it.  Naturally so.  They have been lied to....plain and simple!  People react when the have been deceived, when the company has misrepresented itself and called itself a "cheap trip" travel agents, then a "hotel promotion" company, and finally "vacation!" something but never "timeshare"!!!  This is where it's at.  I speak form EXPERIENCE NOT FROM HERESAY.  That is why I do believe what I read about the other people's experiences concerning them for the most part, as I know what they are like..........and so does the BBB and so do the Mexican Authorities!...........but so far nothing has been done to prevent all this deception, misrepresentation, and extortion!!!!   The Law is not effective in Mexico.  It is of no use to anybody on paper only!  I read about so many trying to rescind within the five day period, which is a terribly short length of time, and even so the money is not returned to to them!!!  

SKIRTING AROUND THE ISSUE IS NOT BEING HELPFUL TO THE TUG MEMBERS.


----------



## mikenk

A request / question for moderators:

- Since this boot camp thread was intended to help people learn how to deal with timeshare presentations, and it has been hijacked to actually show the opposite, is there anyway to restore it to being meaningful?

- By allowing the continual repetitive rants from Vera whose singular stated goal is to extract money from GM, is there a point of complicity that TUG really wants no part of? In reality, only Vera and Grupo Mayan really know the story of this particular situation; personally, I believe there is way more to it than meets the eye. I am not sure TUG should be appearing to take sides by being her negotiation arm.

- It would also seem to me that those who want to make sure the Grupo Mayan sales tactics are exposed (as if they aren't already) would also want these Vera rants stopped. Her ramblings do not make a good spokesperson for that cause. 

Mike


----------



## K&PFitz

If I'm reading this right, GM wants a signed agreement and Vera wants a check, but neither wants to act first.  Could both parties deposit the items with a third party escrow agent, an attorney for example, and put this to rest?  It seems simple to me.


----------



## DeniseM

Vera V Christopher said:


> How can you put all these complaints under "Bootcamp".  What bootcamp, put them under the "Mayan" and be straightforward.



*Vera - Please read this carefully:*

1)  It is TUG *policy* to put posts on the same topic in the same thread.  It's a logical way to organize info.  I has nothing to do with you personally, or Grupo Mayan - it is simply an organizational tool.

2)  I understand that you are trying to blast Grupo Mayan into submission with your posts, but remember that TUG is not your private platform for your campaign, and you have to cooperate with the forum rules.  

3)  You are not making any friends here by criticizing others for not jumping on your band wagon.

Have you considered creating your own webpage where you can post anything you want?  You can do it for free.  I use www.webs.com and like it a lot.  Just sign up for the free version and you can post away.


----------



## california-bighorn

*Post #104 Above*

Vera,                                                                                                when reading your comments in the above (#104) I thought your comments were pretty much to the point and you presented your position well without the non-constructive comments of previous posts.  I think you will be more likely in obtaining your final goal of a refund by proceeding in a manner like this.  Best of luck!!!


----------



## Passepartout

Maybe I'm just thinking out loud- or not, but I agree with Mike. Enough already. First one non-member poster ranting on one thing, then ironically another non-member with yet another axe to grind. 

Vera and her predecessor, Ms.13, were allowed their soapbox to expound upon for way too long.

I sympathize with their cause, but in both cases, it's personal and while cautionary at first, declined into blame of others (TUG's paying MEMBERS and Mods) for not being helpful to the cause.

While I would be hesitant to restrict anyone from posting, at some point it needs to be recognized that continuing to be a platform actually hurts the cause the posters are trying to affect.

Please, Vera, follow Denise's suggestion of opening your own website, or blog spot and rant to your heart's content. I wish you well, and truly hope you and Grupo Mayan can come to some agreement.

That G.M. has aggressive sales tactics is, and has been known to TUGgers for some time. We're sorry that you didn't know that before your paths crossed. Both you and G.M. would have been better served.

Now go and pursue your 'justice' privately and on your own. 

Jim Ricks


----------



## Vera V Christopher

*That Has Already Been Done But To No Avail.  Just Before Xmas Mayan "lyin" Pulled Out*



K&PFitz said:


> If I'm reading this right, GM wants a signed agreement and Vera wants a check, but neither wants to act first.  Could both parties deposit the items with a third party escrow agent, an attorney for example, and put this to rest?  It seems simple to me.


 

Mayan are not interested, or so it would seem, to do anything by the book.  And why should they since they have got away with so much, non refund of depoist of so many people within the five day cooling off period etc.

You are calling my posts "rants" but they are factual accounts.  And really what can I call some comments I see here "apologies for the Mayan"?  It works both ways, you know!

No stone has been left unturned.  And  no the whole story is out.  What more do you want to be "hidden" within all of this, by now it would be out, we are talking of three years, not three weeks!

HAVE NOTHING TO BE ASHAMED OF....HAVE DONE EVERYTHING BY THE BOOK AND HAVE MET WITH OPPOSITION ALL THE WAY FOR THE RIGHT, NOT FOR THE WRONG.  AND WHAT IS MOST TRUE IN ALL OF THIS I AM ONE OF THOUSANDS OF OTHER IN THE SAME BOAT.  

You would do better to read all my posts to know the facts instead of speculating online.


----------



## DeniseM

Vera V Christopher said:


> You are calling my posts "rants" but they are factual accounts.
> 
> You would do better to read all my posts to know the facts instead of speculating online.



Vera - K&PFitz did NOT call your posts rants, and they made a very good suggestion.

*You need to tone it down and keep it impersonal.*


----------



## Vera V Christopher

*Thank You For The Constructive Comments And Praise For Being Concise And To The Point*



california-bighorn said:


> Vera,                                                                                                when reading your comments in the above (#104) I thought your comments were pretty much to the point and you presented your position well without the non-constructive comments of previous posts.  I think you will be more likely in obtaining your final goal of a refund by proceeding in a manner like this.  Best of luck!!!



Thank you for the positive feedback.  I very much appreciate it.  I am trying to put forward the point that all avenues to reaching an agreement with the Mayan have been exhausted so far and have failed.  It is not a question of being difficult on my part.  I showed good will last Autumn when I took off all the posts of the past as I genuinely believe that that was their condition in returning the money that they owe to me.  And it is not just a question of money but principle.  I was honest in that I did as they asked, and then got an escrow for their second demand i.e. the signing of a "settlement" contract stating that I shall never say anything negative about them again.

Well, if I were in their position I would have settled with someone who did as I asked, showed good will and was only asking for what was rightfully hers.  The contract is cancelled.  So now they are creating new difficulties to add insult to injury, as they say, just aggravating the situation not to pay out.  My lawyer thinks that they never intended to pay.  What they actually write down and what they do are two different things.  They are very unpredictable, and disrespective of any norms in dealings.  I have never come across all this before for a large "company".   It is too dishonest.


----------



## Vera V Christopher

*You Seem To Be Unduly Nervous About The Exposure Of The Mayan*



mikenk said:


> A request / question for moderators:
> 
> - Since this boot camp thread was intended to help people learn how to deal with timeshare presentations, and it has been hijacked to actually show the opposite, is there anyway to restore it to being meaningful?
> 
> - By allowing the continual repetitive rants from Vera whose singular stated goal is to extract money from GM, is there a point of complicity that TUG really wants no part of? In reality, only Vera and Grupo Mayan really know the story of this particular situation; personally, I believe there is way more to it than meets the eye. I am not sure TUG should be appearing to take sides by being her negotiation arm.
> 
> - It would also seem to me that those who want to make sure the Grupo Mayan sales tactics are exposed (as if they aren't already) would also want these Vera rants stopped. Her ramblings do not make a good spokesperson for that cause.
> 
> Mike



Interesting how on the one hand you are saying that you agree that "sales tactics" are OK to be exposed but you have decided that my "goal is to extract money from GM" like a sort of blackmail and are saying that YOU KNOW (I wonder where from) THAT THERE IS A LOT MORE THAN MEETS THE EYE IN THIS MATTER.  So what are the Mayan trying to do in your opinion?  You seem to be repeating the words of the Mayan themselves regarding the "extraction of money" making it sound like I want something which I have not paid to them or to the escrow to make certain that they get their signed settlement and I my deposit and payments back.    I am asking for what belongs to me, the deposit and the payments to date....it has been gained through misrepresentation from start to finish before we even (my companion and I) stepped foot in the Mayan Palace!  I was never told that it is timeshare as mentioned before....so I do not see how you are defending the Mayan this much as an "innocent party".  It makes no sense to me that you should be speaking of instructing people to deal with presentations!  This sounds very hollow to me since you have made these statements.  It really does.  There is a lot to you that is not meeting the eye by what you are saying and implying.  

Will you care to inform the readers what YOU think is happening here?  We are allowed to speculate by what I see is happening on the website anyway!


----------



## mikenk

I have no clue and have no interest in speculation; I'm just tired of it all.

One thing I have learned over the years if someone tells you something that impacts their personal finances, take it with a huge grain of salt - that includes timeshare people, used car salesman, in fact any sales people, relatives, and even people on forums. 

Mike


----------



## pjrose

Denise,

The original idea of a "Bootcamp" thread was a good one, but this thread turned into something else.  

Maybe a "Before The Sale - Learn About Presentations" and an "After the Sale - Problems or Second Thoughts"???  

However, then I was thinking why here, in Mexico?  The issues apply to other geographic areas as well - perhaps "Before - About Presentations" and "After - Second Thoughts?" - fit "Buying, Selling, Renting"?  

PJ


----------



## Tropical lady

*good suggestion....*

Pjrose made an excellent point.  
The presentation thread is applicable to all timeshares in all locations.  I agree that the titles should be changed to reflect a thread on "how to prepare" and another thread for "problems after" and not be company, region, country specific except perhaps in the first posting.
The thread for "the problems after" might request the poster to "outline" the problem so that possible solutions could be offered  point for point and the whole purpose would be more contructive and helpful.  Once the problem is described, no need to repeat unless there is a question or clarification.  Maybe a few guidelines would discourage the continuous postings which we have experienced here.  The right to an opinion is important, but the forum and others' credibility seem to be in question by the poster. A moderator should not have to justify a comment or spend large amounts of time moderating improper posts.


----------



## easyrider

Vera's posts are meant to get the attention of Grupo Mayan and to educate those who don't know about Grupo Mayan's sales tactics. Knowing what she knows now she probably wouldn't fall for it again.

"Providing the TRUTH about timeshares to owners for 17 years"

http://tug2.net/tuginfo.html

Do you really think she is just making up the entire story when there are thousands of others who have a similar experience with this same company ?
http://www.mycollector.com/mayanclassactionpaisola.pdf


I would believe Vera over Grupo Mayan any day of the week.

This has nothing to do with your pleasant holiday at a Grupo Mayan property but the money that was not rightfully returned. Maybe it is because she is a woman so they think they can appease her with offering half her money back. From my experience "Hell has no furry as a woman scorned" so Grupo gets what they get.


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## pjrose

Easy,

I don't doubt the credibility. Certainly people should use TUG to post problems with Timeshares and to ask for help.  In this case the problems have been posted - and posted - and posted - and posted - and we have offered suggestions.  

The repetition is not constructive and is annoying.  Also, combining threads, and perhaps eventually having to delete all the posts if/when a solution is reached, makes a lot of work for our volunteer moderators.  

As pointed out way above, TUG is not someone's personal forum for their fight/vendetta/rant about something. 

:deadhorse:


----------



## CatLovers

*I get where Ms. Christopher is coming from!*

Folks, to be fair to *Vera V Christopher*, she was attacked by a few posters on this forum pretty much right after her first post.  Her version of the events, as well as her credibility and her intelligence were questioned.  True, she was not as eloquent as some others on this board, but it was no reason to demean and belittle her, particularly given that this is not the first time we have heard this sort of complaint about Grupo Mayan.

Gosh darn it, I myself had no idea what a firestorm I was wandering into when in January I posted what I thought was a "review" of my very negative experience at the Grand Mayan Nuevo Vallarta (http://tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=138295).  And my negative experience was not just with their sales process; unfortunately it was also with their customer service and amenities which some vocal TUGgers absolutely rave about!  As a timesharer for over 10 years, and a long-time TUGger, I have contributed many reviews and posts here and participated in some great respectful dialogues, so I was more than a little taken aback by the venom and some of the "attacking" posts that followed my review.  I was called foolish, a ranter, absurd and childish, implied that I wouldn't know what a high-class resort was, and my integrity and credibility were questioned.  I was particularly surprised because I have "no skin" in the game -- I did not buy from Grupo Mayan, I will likely never stay at one of their resorts again -- so my only reason to review the resort was to provide a description of MY experience, and hopefully help others avoid having the same negative experience that we did.  Good thing I have such a thick skin (and I am at a point in my life where comments by a handful of strangers on a bulletin board do not bother me one iota  )!  Since then, I have followed this whole Grupo Mayan saga closely, even going as far as to blog about them on my leadership practices blog.  I have also observed that there are about six or seven TUGgers who just "love" the Grupo Mayan resorts and I can understand and respect that.  But I have found that they also can be vocal, and sometimes, quite disrespectful to those whose experiences do not mirror theirs.

But back to the topic, I can understand why a newbie such as Ms. Christopher who already clearly feels wronged by the company, would react defensively, and in her case, by posting over and over again (and lashing out at others).  I suspect that the moderators understand some of her anguish and that's why so many people have also tried to offer her unbiased and non-judgmental advice.  So perhaps we could try to ease up on her a little bit ... (Btw, I am not suggesting that she be allowed to break any BB rules)

I think this thread that refers specifically to timeshare presentations in Mexico is VERY APPROPRIATE because these are far more "high pressure" than others in any other region of the world.  And I think the reason Grupo Mayan is getting so much "air time" is because at least in this arena, they win the prize!  I have attended many timeshare presentations before (including a couple in Mexico), but I have never felt the need to describe them as the "experience from hell" until this one.


----------



## Tropical lady

*whoa easyrider.....*

Unless you are referring to someone else's post, I never said anything about the credibility of her posts.  In fact no one did.  Incredible....yes! I did say in my last post here that the poster has questioned the moderator, taken much of the moderator's time and alluded to the credibility of TUG with statements that some web sites are getting $'s from Mexican resorts. 
The forum is not an appropriate place for a personal vendetta.  If the situation had been posted clearly and concisely with rational thought and no comments made about being drugged, a chorus of reps singing to her, but on the other hand the toilets were impressive, it could have achieved the results she wanted.  But all this has had the opposite effect IMHO.
Since I cannot think of another constructive response that anyone could give to her.....no response may end the situation.


----------



## John Cummings

pjrose said:


> Denise,
> 
> The original idea of a "Bootcamp" thread was a good one, but this thread turned into something else.
> 
> Maybe a "Before The Sale - Learn About Presentations" and an "After the Sale - Problems or Second Thoughts"???
> 
> However, then I was thinking why here, in Mexico?  The issues apply to other geographic areas as well - perhaps "Before - About Presentations" and "After - Second Thoughts?" - fit "Buying, Selling, Renting"?
> 
> PJ



Though the issues may apply elsewhere, the vast majority of complaints are about Mexican timeshares. They are able to do things without consequence in Mexico. Grupo Mayan is not the only Mexican timeshare developer that uses the same tactics.


----------



## Karen G

pjrose said:


> Denise,
> 
> The original idea of a "Bootcamp" thread was a good one, but this thread turned into something else.
> 
> Maybe a "Before The Sale - Learn About Presentations" and an "After the Sale - Problems or Second Thoughts"???
> 
> However, then I was thinking why here, in Mexico?  The issues apply to other geographic areas as well - perhaps "Before - About Presentations" and "After - Second Thoughts?" - fit "Buying, Selling, Renting"?
> 
> PJ


There already is a sticky about "after the sale" issues--Know Your Rights of Rescission...  with information specific to Mexico. 

Since laws and business practices are different in Mexico, I think it's appropriate to have this thread in this forum.  Certainly a similar thread could be posted in other forums relative to timeshare presentations in the U.S. or anywhere else.  

It's incendiary enough to discuss just Mexican resorts without throwing other places into the mix as well.


----------



## easyrider

What does it matter if Vera rants and rants ? To me personally it just doesn't matter. With her rants she did get the attention of a Grupo Mayan rep. and showed how a newbie can get fleeced at a presentation.
Also, I'm not saying that what she is doing isn't annoying to some or that anyone that bought from the developer was fleeced. 

What I think is " The squeaky wheel gets greased". 

If a person does have a problem with Vera's post maybe no response is the best response.

I find it very entertaining and did learn that there are more than just Vera that are very mad at Grupo Mayan for many different reasons.

Could this hurt sales at Grupo Mayan ? Only if people do due diligence before they buy. By typing in Grupo Mayan in the google box there is enough info to make anyone think twice. With this info available on smart phones now it would be in Grupo Mayan's interest to clean up their web presence.


----------



## aliikai2

*Grand Mayan on Sunday*

I can say for sure that we will really enjoy our two weeks in the GM in Nuevo Vallarta starting Sunday.

 I am sincerely sorry that your resort experience was so awful, but I am glad that you have found other resorts that you enjoy.

We like the resorts and their staff, and in comparison to most of the other resorts in Mexico, feel the Grupo Mayan resorts are far and away the best.

fwiw,

Greg 



CatLovers said:


> Folks, to be fair to *Vera V Christopher*, she was attacked by a few posters on this forum pretty much right after her first post.  Her version of the events, as well as her credibility and her intelligence were questioned.  True, she was not as eloquent as some others on this board, but it was no reason to demean and belittle her, particularly given that this is not the first time we have heard this sort of complaint about Grupo Mayan.
> 
> Gosh darn it, I myself had no idea what a firestorm I was wandering into when in January I posted what I thought was a "review" of my very negative experience at the Grand Mayan Nuevo Vallarta (http://tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=138295).  And my negative experience was not just with their sales process; unfortunately it was also with their customer service and amenities which some vocal TUGgers absolutely rave about!  As a timesharer for over 10 years, and a long-time TUGger, I have contributed many reviews and posts here and participated in some great respectful dialogues, so I was more than a little taken aback by the venom and some of the "attacking" posts that followed my review.  I was called foolish, a ranter, absurd and childish, implied that I wouldn't know what a high-class resort was, and my integrity and credibility were questioned.  I was particularly surprised because I have "no skin" in the game -- I did not buy from Grupo Mayan, I will likely never stay at one of their resorts again -- so my only reason to review the resort was to provide a description of MY experience, and hopefully help others avoid having the same negative experience that we did.  Good thing I have such a thick skin (and I am at a point in my life where comments by a handful of strangers on a bulletin board do not bother me one iota  )!  Since then, I have followed this whole Grupo Mayan saga closely, even going as far as to blog about them on my leadership practices blog.  I have also observed that there are about six or seven TUGgers who just "love" the Grupo Mayan resorts and I can understand and respect that.  But I have found that they also can be vocal, and sometimes, quite disrespectful to those whose experiences do not mirror theirs.
> 
> But back to the topic, I can understand why a newbie such as Ms. Christopher who already clearly feels wronged by the company, would react defensively, and in her case, by posting over and over again (and lashing out at others).  I suspect that the moderators understand some of her anguish and that's why so many people have also tried to offer her unbiased and non-judgmental advice.  So perhaps we could try to ease up on her a little bit ... (Btw, I am not suggesting that she be allowed to break any BB rules)
> 
> I think this thread that refers specifically to timeshare presentations in Mexico is VERY APPROPRIATE because these are far more "high pressure" than others in any other region of the world.  And I think the reason Grupo Mayan is getting so much "air time" is because at least in this arena, they win the prize!  I have attended many timeshare presentations before (including a couple in Mexico), but I have never felt the need to describe them as the "experience from hell" until this one.


----------



## Vera V Christopher

*[Duplicate post deleted]*

[Duplicate post deleted - DeniseM Moderator]


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## Vera V Christopher

*It Would Help Me If My Comments Were Not Erased!!!*



pjrose said:


> I was going to suggest that too....her own personal thread.  "Vera's Complaints Against Grupo Mayan."
> 
> Ms. Christopher, please understand that your attempts to get your money back by posting negatively against Grupo Mayan are not helping you, because your posts are not specific and to-the-point, and because there are so many of them that they have become ineffective, and overall they have become very annoying to TUGgers.
> 
> We are as a rule quite helpful people here, but with your current tactics, we can't help you.



This is not Libya or somewhere where people cannot say what they need to say without fear of reprisals or having their comments erased!!!!  I thought that the USA was the "Land of the Free", "Home of the brave" etc.   I did pose the question about the financial help some websites are getting from the timeshare industry.  $ seem to prevent certain comments staying on the websites, do they?


----------



## DeniseM

> having their comments erased!!!!



Vera - TUG is a privately owned website with rules - duplicate posts are not permitted.  4 of your last 5 posts contained the same info., so 2 were deleted, and 2 were merged.  This is not the first time you have been reminded about this rule.



> I did pose the question about the financial help some websites are getting from the timeshare industry. $ seem to prevent certain comments staying on the websites, do they?



Yes, but you never said WHICH website(s) you were talking about, or WHERE you got the info. -  posting vague accusations with no documentation is not useful.


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## John Cummings

Vera V Christopher said:


> ...I did pose the question about the financial help some websites are getting from the timeshare industry.  $ seem to prevent certain comments staying on the websites, do they?



What proof do you have to support your allegations? You keep repeating the same old stuff. You need to give it a rest as you are definitely NOT helping your cause whatever that may be.


----------



## Vera V Christopher

*I Bought A Studio From The Grupo Mayan And The Contract Is Cancelled. No Return Of $*

Whether people understand or not about the so called rescision or "cooling off" period it makes no much difference when it comes to some companies like the Grupo Mayan for instance.  And even if you go there in person and ask for your money back it still does not affect them at all!   By looking at the websites and seeing all the stung people out there by timeshare it is not surprising that they are looking for a place to vent their fury.  THE U.S. GOVERNMENT SHOULD GET INVOLVED HERE, THE STATE SHOULD PROTECT THE CONSUMER MUCH MORE.   MEXICO IS A NEIGHBOURING STATE TO THE U.S. AND IT SHOULD HAVE LAWS WHICH DO NOT ALLOW THIS RIPPING OFF OF UNSUSPECTING PEOPLE ON VACATION.  THE EUROPEANS HAVE IT RIGHT!  LAWS ARE THERE NOW TO PROTECT THE CONSUMER.  I am afraid that the US have been slow to see the necessity for this.

SORRY TO "OFFEND" THE TIMESHARE "INDUSTRY", COULD NOT BE MORE PERSUADED AS TO ITS SHADINESS NOW!


----------



## Passepartout

Vera V Christopher said:


> Whether people understand or not about the so called rescision or "cooling off" period it makes no much difference when it comes to some companies like the Grupo Mayan for instance.  And even if you go there in person and ask for your money back it still does not affect them at all!



I'm so sorry you obviously purchased something from these people that you don't want, and that you again obviously did not read the instructions for rescinding said purchase. I haven't read your contract, but I'd wager it doesn't say anything about attempting to rescind in person. I believe rescission letters go to a different address than the resort where the timeshare was purchased. At the resort, all they do is SELL, not rescind- That's a corporate function.

Here at TUG, for years and years, we have preached 'Buy Resale!, Buy Resale! We have tried to help people understand rescission- to the point of making sample rescission letters available. Did you consult TUG before you purchased? No? Sorry, but it isn't our, or the U.S. government's fault. It's yours alone. There is no need for anyone to pay for membership for this information. If one buys resale, they may still buy something unwanted, but they will still have most of their money. 

We continue to wish you well, and hope you can reach settlement with Grupo Mayan, but continuing to rant here with undocumented allegations about unknown 'websites' is not helpful. Your success will hinge on your dealing with them, not us. I'd suggest concentrating your effort there.You are just beating a dead horse here. We can do nothing to help your cause.

Jim Ricks


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## pjrose

Passepartout said:


> I'm so sorry you obviously purchased something from these people that you don't want . . . .
> 
> We continue to wish you well, and hope you can reach settlement with Grupo Mayan. . . Your success will hinge on your dealing with them, not us. I'd suggest concentrating your effort there.You are just beating a dead horse here. We can do nothing to help your cause.
> 
> Jim Ricks



Good post, Jim.


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## John Cummings

Vera V Christopher said:


> ...THE U.S. GOVERNMENT SHOULD GET INVOLVED HERE, THE STATE SHOULD PROTECT THE CONSUMER MUCH MORE.   MEXICO IS A NEIGHBOURING STATE TO THE U.S. AND IT SHOULD HAVE LAWS WHICH DO NOT ALLOW THIS RIPPING OFF OF UNSUSPECTING PEOPLE ON VACATION.  THE EUROPEANS HAVE IT RIGHT!  LAWS ARE THERE NOW TO PROTECT THE CONSUMER.  I am afraid that the US have been slow to see the necessity for this.
> 
> SORRY TO "OFFEND" THE TIMESHARE "INDUSTRY", COULD NOT BE MORE PERSUADED AS TO ITS SHADINESS NOW!



_Personal remarks attacking another poster have been removed--Karen G, Moderator_

 The United States and Mexico are two separate sovereign nations. People buying timeshares in Mexico have nothing to do with the United States government nor should it. We have lots of consumer laws that protect us IN the US.


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## MommaBear

Vera V Christopher said:


> Whether people understand or not about the so called rescision or "cooling off" period it makes no much difference when it comes to some companies like the Grupo Mayan for instance.  And even if you go there in person and ask for your money back it still does not affect them at all!   By looking at the websites and seeing all the stung people out there by timeshare it is not surprising that they are looking for a place to vent their fury.  THE U.S. GOVERNMENT SHOULD GET INVOLVED HERE, THE STATE SHOULD PROTECT THE CONSUMER MUCH MORE.   MEXICO IS A NEIGHBOURING STATE TO THE U.S. AND IT SHOULD HAVE LAWS WHICH DO NOT ALLOW THIS RIPPING OFF OF UNSUSPECTING PEOPLE ON VACATION.  THE EUROPEANS HAVE IT RIGHT!  LAWS ARE THERE NOW TO PROTECT THE CONSUMER.  I am afraid that the US have been slow to see the necessity for this.
> 
> SORRY TO "OFFEND" THE TIMESHARE "INDUSTRY", COULD NOT BE MORE PERSUADED AS TO ITS SHADINESS NOW!



Vera- I have been following your relentless postings about your problems. For you to now think that the US has any jurisdiction or should have jurisdiction over this matter is absurd. You are a resident in the UK and Mexico is it's own country. Perhaps you should ask Belize, another country neighboring Mexico, to regulate Mexican affair or perhaps you could get France to help you out as a UK resident. The reality is that you and you alone made the contract with Grupo Mayan. I do not want to debate whether or not what they did was legal or moral. You signed the paperwork and so that leads back to personal repsonsibility. All of your writings cannot change that reality. I do wish you the best inextracting yourself from this, however to expect other nations to intervene is unrealistic.


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## K&PFitz

Vera has discovered TripAdvisor, and has two posts there, drugged coffee and all.

http://www.tripadvisor.com/ShowTopi...ing_royal_in_it-Cancun_Yucatan_Peninsula.html


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## MuranoJo

Hmmm the link you provided takes me to a message saying, "This content has been removed."


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## DeniseM

muranojo said:


> Hmmm the link you provided takes me to a message saying, "This content has been removed."



Tripadvisor can remove material that they find objectionable.


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## T_R_Oglodyte

DeniseM said:


> Tripadvisor can remove material that they find objectionable.



But I doubt that would lead her to conclude that perhaps the moderation here isn't so bad after all.


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## MuranoJo

Vera and following,

Much as some like to stick it to Grups t/s, it happens all over the world, even with some other, perhaps more recognized brands.

No excuse for any of them for their sales practices, but do your homework before any big-ticket purchase.


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## John Cummings

This is just to get me back on the subscribed list. For some reason this thread and a few others disappear periodically from my subscribed threads.


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## K&PFitz

One of her threads is gone, but this one is still alive as of right now.

http://www.tripadvisor.com/ShowTopi...n_Palace_Say_No-Cancun_Yucatan_Peninsula.html

She's posted the same message twice, so they probably removed one.


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## Karen G

After reading Vera's story again on Tripadvisor, it seems to me that she and her friend are very lucky that they didn't suffer a worse fate than losing money in their ordeal. For two women to get in a car with two strangers in Mexico (or anywhere else for that matter) and be taken to an unknown and unfamiliar place in a foreign country is frightening and potentially life-threatening.

I hope that telling her story may save someone else from a very bad experience.  It just isn't worth whatever "free gifts" are promised to subject oneself to a high pressure timeshare presentation anywhere.  As has been pointed out, it isn't just Grupo Mayan that uses these tactics, but they do seem to be the one that gets the most complaints.


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## DeniseM

If Vera's story is true, I am guessing that she is an inexperienced regarding travel, the internet, and finances.


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## Passepartout

At some point, one has to ask, 'What is she getting from this?' Like a child throwing a tantrum, I think it's about the attention she's getting- not resolution of her problem. An offer of resolution seems to have been made by GM. I think. Yet she continues the rants- seemingly just to make noise. 

Until she comes down, backs off, takes a deep breath and decides to discuss facts with GM directly, this will just continue. I have noticed her absence here, and hope she has come to realize that there is just nothing anyone here can do to help her. When she figures the same thing out at T/A, maybe she'll talk to Karen Rose.

Jim


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## CatLovers

Passepartout said:


> At some point, one has to ask, 'What is she getting from this?' Like a child throwing a tantrum, I think it's about the attention she's getting- not resolution of her problem.



Well I think she has managed to get THEIR attention.  My impression from her previous posts here on TUG was that they had pretty much told her to go away and to forget about getting any of her money back.  As a result of her "noise", they are now at least making overtures towards her.  In this latest TripAdvisor thread, Karen Rose's comments seem much more conciliatory than they have in the past, so perhaps Vera's "ranting" is achieving HER objectives?

The squeaky wheel gets the grease ... just sayin'


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## pjrose

CatLovers said:


> Well I think she has managed to get THEIR attention.  My impression from her previous posts here on TUG was that they had pretty much told her to go away and to forget about getting any of her money back.  As a result of her "noise", they are now at least making overtures towards her.  In this latest TripAdvisor thread, Karen Rose's comments seem much more conciliatory than they have in the past, so perhaps Vera's "ranting" is achieving HER objectives?
> 
> The squeaky wheel gets the grease ... just sayin'



But Karen's been posting similar overtures for well over a month. . .at least that long in this particular thread!


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## DeniseM

Based on Karen Rose's post, it seemed like Vera may have been asking for more than just her money back - like maybe addional money for damages or suffering?  Hard to say...


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## Tropical lady

*sure she wants more......*

In Vera's first post, in addition to money from cancellation of the contract, she wants interest on her ?$4000 and legal fees for her lawyer.  In post #37 from Karen Rose, it mentions that they cannot comply with a long list of demands for alleged expenses.  Denise's comments re inexperience seem to be right on and are reinforced when you read Vera's account of the hotel in Turkey around the same time frame.
Karen Rose has a tough assignment here and is walking a fine line to get this resolved.


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## robj

*Hi, Mike completely agree with you in this quote*



mikenk said:


> Yes, I agree. The more I have read, the more I understand that this particular situation defies resolution. There is two things I know about the Grupo Mayan system: they do have a irritating contracted high pressure sales approach; they also have an excellent in-house members services / contract team that are great to work with. Unfortunately, many people have no ability to understand the difference and behave accordingly.
> 
> Mike



We just upgraded to Grand Luxxe from Grand Mayan last weekend and were pleased with the way the negotiations went. 

I'll just add here that I try to always separate the enjoyment we always have at the Mayan Resort properties from the disappointment we've always had if we've put weeks into one of the various rental programs they were touting--Notably the defunct Elite program, which couldn't rent a Mayan week to save their soul. 

I wonder if there are any other new (2011) Grand Luxxe owners who signed up with the rental program (I believe it's through VIDA) and whether they were guaranteed a certain rental income for each of the weeks/years that were put in the program.  I believe it's internally called the "Residence Weeks Program"?

Also without quoting it, I saw another post on a thread here that challenged the salesperson using 5% Maintenance Fee increases each year for 25 years--including the 5 year assessments and the 25-year 10x Maintenance Fee. I'll just say that poster is deluding himself it he thinks the M.F. won't go up 5% per year.  This ultimately is why we upgraded as it was a matter like the old advertisement of "Pay me now or Pay me Later"  We were able to double our weeks at the upgraded Grand Luxxe or if using the Grand Mayan sister resort exchange we basically almost quadrupled our Grand Mayan weeks for less than what those 25 years of fees would have cost---and if they are telling the 100% truth about the rental program guaranteed rent we will do even better, much better.

I know it's hard, but if you can separate the usage of the Mayan from the occasional hassles of ownership, you'll be happier.


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## robj

*Vera, as Nancy Reagan used to say, "Just Say No"*

Nobody forced you to buy; 
they didn't force you to stay in the chair; 
they didn't take the credit card out of your purse

There is likely a difference between what you thought the saeperson was telling you and the way it was written in the contract. If it wasn't written in the contract the way you thought you heard it in the presentation, you again had a chance to Just Say No!

As my uncle used to say when he was in an unpleasant situation, "They Can't Eat You."

I'm brand new here today, but I've already started skipping any post of yours or any one where somebody responded to your post--I'm just flying through this message board topic right now and getting no value.


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## margaretsims

*Timeshare Presentations*

If you are not interested in purchasing a timeshare, do not attend a timeshare presentation! The free gifts are not worth wasting a day of your vacation, and putting your hard earned money at risk of being scammed by the timeshare salespeople


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## DBS1968

*Just a small laugh about buying a timeshare*

I bought a Paradise Village TS on Ebay for 1.00. We just used it and did the "update" presentation. They did not believe me that I paid 1.00 and wanted to "upgrade" me for 12,000.00. I told them I would rather go buy another week for 1.00 on Ebay than pay 12k for a new one...lol  The manager got mad and said "if you can really do that, then go buy another..ha ha ha"  Well.. I just did and I am laughing all the way to the bank in the savings. We can now go every year for pennies of what the resort wants for the timeshares.. LOL  I LOVE TUG, learned so much about the do's and don'ts...awesome...:whoopie:


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## TUGBrian

just a bump to include this story in the current posts for the Mexican section, I see karen has already added it to the first post of this thread:

http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=226253


Investigative report on Mexican Timeshare sales presentations!


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## Boonie

*I should of kept walking....*

We arrived in Cancun yesterday haven't been here in 15 years and I did do a timeshare presentation the last time here but did not buy.  Best advice is do not stop go straight outside.  I asked a woman for directions on airport transfer and she took me to a tour desk where the guy convinced me to do a tour in Rivera Maya.  He wanted $20 but I refused to give him $$ so had me promise him we would meet him.  He said not to tell anyone at the resort.  We get to Royal Caribbean and first thing the concierge asks how was the airport and did anyone talk to us!      This is my husbands first time in Mexico and he is turned off by all the pressure including some guy trying to take our luggage inside the airport saying they were our transfer but we had read about that so said NO!  Not to mention he does not speak Spanish I do -  we are both Mexican American so he is getting looked down upon -  but that's a different story culture thing.    So the guy is to pick us up in 3 hours which my husband decided we're not spending more time and missing out on our resort party.   I feel bad leaving the guy hanging and breaking my promise, he also took a picture of us with our interval certificate don't know if I should be concerned about that.    I did tell him I had no intention of buying was going more out of curiosity to see the resort and get some freebies.


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## stodgman

*Fewer and fewer TS presentations*

We are actually in Cabo now and, as is usual, got bombarded with offers for TS presentations. We are not against spending a morning with a congenial salesman who provides breakfast and a tour of nice facilities. This can only be done if you have the right attitude and we always learn things about how the TS system works. We have bought several Hawaii timeshares for a buck so it is near impossible to get us to buy at developer prices. Our new mantra is "WE WANT CASH". You can set your own threshold for the amount but we have actually been paid $400 to attend a presentation in Cabo. We make sure we get that written down prior to agreeing to attend.


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## shoegal

Hahahaha! Love it!!! 




DBS1968 said:


> I bought a Paradise Village TS on Ebay for 1.00. We just used it and did the "update" presentation. They did not believe me that I paid 1.00 and wanted to "upgrade" me for 12,000.00. I told them I would rather go buy another week for 1.00 on Ebay than pay 12k for a new one...lol  The manager got mad and said "if you can really do that, then go buy another..ha ha ha"  Well.. I just did and I am laughing all the way to the bank in the savings. We can now go every year for pennies of what the resort wants for the timeshares.. LOL  I LOVE TUG, learned so much about the do's and don'ts...awesome...:whoopie:


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## shorep

*Change to sales pitch*

Just got back from Grand Mayan,usual heavy handed invite to 'short presentation',started at 10.00,escaped by 6 that night,rained all day,so did not miss much.
New pitch is all about percentage ownership of real estate as opposed to timeshare or upgrades,same torture of the truth.Was told I had been made an offer of 'free upgrade to Grand Luxxe,but you did not respond',YEH,I bet no such offer.


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## mikenk

shorep said:


> Just got back from Grand Mayan,usual heavy handed invite to 'short presentation',started at 10.00,escaped by 6 that night,rained all day,so did not miss much.
> New pitch is all about percentage ownership of real estate as opposed to timeshare or upgrades,same torture of the truth.Was told I had been made an offer of 'free upgrade to Grand Luxxe,but you did not respond',YEH,I bet no such offer.



Are you serious? You wasted 8 hours to listen to something you had no interest in. Why?

That is a good message for this particular thread. 1) Don't attend a timeshare presentation if nothing you hear will entice you - pure waste of time. 2) If you do attend, limit the time you will listen - never over 2 hours unless you extend it for negotiation.

Mike


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## Nikol Schreiver

Mike are you still a member? We just went to Vidanta and stayed at Grand Bliss. We were there with some friends who were given the time share week as a wedding gift. We stayed away from the sales pitches while there in order to just not feel the pressure and enjoy the space and time away. We actually met a sales person while roaming around and finding the 9th floor of the bliss. Which is now at least where they have the set up of all of there rooms offered at the various buildings. He told us to go ahead and explore and if anyone bothers us just tell them we are exploring. No one bothered us and we got to just review the space. We loved it there. We are not into buying time shares normally, but honestly believe if we found the right deal in perpetuity it would be an investment to pass onto our children. So it would be worth it for us. We are looking for tips and pointers on negotiating. The friends we went with, there contract holders who gave them the week actually have more than 4 weeks, and at the Grand Luxxe Residence. Now that we are home we are interested in finding out more info but aren't sure how to get an email going with anyone. The main sites for both Vidanta and Grupo only offer a regular customer service email nothing about the actual membership. Can you share with me any insight on how to contact someone? 
thanks
Nikol 



mikenk said:


> Okay, I will be the first to jump in based on my experience with the Grupo Mayan system (now Grupo Vidanta). These are my experiences and thoughts but in no way claim i have it all figured out.
> 
> I bought a Grand Mayan unit on resale a few years back after attending a couple of presentations while vacationing with friends on RCI exchanges. I have since upgraded twice through the company. in total, I have attended about 9 or 10 of the upgrade presentations (they always have something more to sell you and i am always ready to negotiate)
> 
> The entry level I believe now is the Grand Mayan; it used to be the Mayan Palace but they are trying to phase out of that as people upgrade. I believe that all new folks will be sold at that level. Then later they will be offered upgrades to the Grand Bliss or Grand Luxxe.
> 
> The Grand Mayan units are basically a right to use piece of property. They used to offer bonus weeks with the package called Vacation Fair weeks - don't think they do that anymore, but not totally sure. The Grand Bliss and grand Luxxe contracts are significantly different as they also include things like free golf, free massages, senior discounts and whatever you can negotiate - much more flexible contracts. Grupo Vidanta does not want these on the resale market so they add high transfer fees and strip away the amenities if you sell it. However you can transfer them and add and delete people to the contract.
> 
> That's a very quick primer on the system. As a non owner. if you choose to take the initial presentation: here are some thoughts.
> 
> 1: There are the contracted sales folks trained in the art of fast talking; then there are the contracts people who sign and will administer the contracts; i have little use for the first; have had no problems with the second. In fact, I frequently communicate with one via email.
> 
> 2: Consider anything the sales people say a lie unless they will put it in writing signed by a contracts person. Whatever is in the contract - they do honor.
> 
> 3: Remember you are in control for 5 days; whatever they put in the contract, they have to honor; whatever you agree to can be easily rescinded. I did it twice during my first upgrade. when you rescind, you are dealing then with the contracts people. If they do meet your demands and they might, read every word in the contract several times. The contract consists of the standard document and the addenda signed by the contracts person. Make sure whatever you agreed on is clearly stated in the contract.
> 
> 4: Know the features and cost of the GM unit on the resale market (they vary a lot by year); let them know you know; and don't budge. Since I bought resale, I don't know whether they will start negotiating around the different amenities or upgrades when you first start.
> 
> 5: IMHO, if there is no price and amenities that will make you buy, my suggestion is don't go - not worth the time. if you are interested, know the price point and amenities where you would buy knowing full well what you can buy on resale and the value to you of the extra amenities. e.g. The free golf and the no MF unless I use were huge benefits for me when I upgraded.
> 
> 6: last point, these sales people are generally engaging 30ish age people; use your experience to keep in control with clear focus. It is really not that difficult. Again, at the minimum, you will waste a couple of hours, is it really worth it if you have no interest, but do not go in without a plan and knowing the resale value.
> 
> The upgrading process is a little different - enough for now.
> 
> Not sure at all whether this was helpful.
> 
> Mike


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## mikenk

Hello Nikol,

Yes I am still a member - just not as active as years past

The good news: I agree with your assessment; over the years we have negotiated the weeks we need and all of our family loves going. It has indeed become our family vacation spot - this year 15 of our family will have joined us for at least a week. One son got married there years back; we really love our situation - as does all our family.

The bad news: We were able to buy resale when it was cheap to do so and we were always upgrading waaay pre-construction. We upgraded to GL before the Grand Bliss was even built. I'm not at all sure those same type of opportunities exist - but they could. I would assume there are people out there with contracts they would like to sell; the problem has been Vidanta's transfer fees that make it difficult to do so. However, Vidanta's contracts actually have more flexibility than most know when you sell or buy directly from an owner - but never through a third party. My advice is to explore through TUG and other discussions to find someone willing to sell directly to you, then carefully read the contract as to how to minimize the transfer costs. You might also join Aimfair where a lot of owners hang out; there also used to be a yahoo group that might still exist - you might poke around that.

Once you have a contract of any sort for anything, then you will have some leverage to start negotiating with Vidanta to customize what you want. We have actually upgraded twice and adjusted once to better set up our contract for the kids.

Hope this helps a bit; most of us oldtimers were at the right place at the right time.

Mike







Nikol Schreiver said:


> Mike are you still a member? We just went to Vidanta and stayed at Grand Bliss. We were there with some friends who were given the time share week as a wedding gift. We stayed away from the sales pitches while there in order to just not feel the pressure and enjoy the space and time away. We actually met a sales person while roaming around and finding the 9th floor of the bliss. Which is now at least where they have the set up of all of there rooms offered at the various buildings. He told us to go ahead and explore and if anyone bothers us just tell them we are exploring. No one bothered us and we got to just review the space. We loved it there. We are not into buying time shares normally, but honestly believe if we found the right deal in perpetuity it would be an investment to pass onto our children. So it would be worth it for us. We are looking for tips and pointers on negotiating. The friends we went with, there contract holders who gave them the week actually have more than 4 weeks, and at the Grand Luxxe Residence. Now that we are home we are interested in finding out more info but aren't sure how to get an email going with anyone. The main sites for both Vidanta and Grupo only offer a regular customer service email nothing about the actual membership. Can you share with me any insight on how to contact someone?
> thanks
> Nikol


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## 300Coach

Karen G said:


> Often people will find TUG after they've been through a high pressure timeshare presentation and bought something that they didn't understand.  Most of the time they have discovered their mistake after the rescission period.  We have a sticky thread at the top of the Mexico forum describing the Mexican rescission law to know about before going to a presentation, but in this thread let's discuss what actually happens in such a presentation, and how to protect yourself.
> 
> Of course, the best way to avoid being taken advantage of is by NOT attending a presentation. But, if someone is so inclined as to accept the "free" gifts and enticements, what advice would you give him or her? Feel free to name names of companies you've dealt with and educate those who have never been to a presentation.
> 
> Added 4-24-15:  Watch this tv report about a presentation in Puerto Vallarta:
> http://sacramento.cbslocal.com/video/11423455-call-kurtis-investigates-mexican-timeshare-nightmare/
> TUG owner Brian Rogers is in this report, too.


Can we get our deposit back if we signed something stating if we cancel we forfeit it?


pjrose said:


> You should follow their instructions to the letter, i.e. mail or fax or whatever they say - but however you do it, be sure you have dated proof - a registered mail receipt for example.  If you did this on Friday, you have till Wednesday - but don't wait that long, do it NOW.
> 
> Again, try to file a dispute for the CC charge NOW, online.


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## 300Coach

We did contact the credit card company. We went yesterday to sign the right of recission and got talked out of it because we signed an agreement stating we will forfeit our deposit if we cancel. I need to know if they can do that.


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## RNCollins

What they are saying is not true. It is illegal that they made you sign a document saying you forfeit your deposit.
In Mexico you have 5 days to rescind your timeshare purchase. Don’t let the people at the desk talk you out of it and waste your 5 days. Ask for help from Profeco, a consumer advocate group that should help you get your money back.

PROFECO:

At Profeco we are here to help: call us at 5568-8722 or 01-800-468-8722
PROFECO
From Mexico City: 5568-8722. From the rest of Mexico:
01-800-468-8722. www.profeco.gob.mx
Site in English: http://www.profeco.gob.mx/english.htm

National Immigration Institute
From Mexico City: 5387-2400. www.inami.gob.mx

Ministry of Tourism
From Mexico City: 5250-0123 or 5250-0151.
From the rest of Mexico: 01-800-903-9200. From the USA: 1-800-482-9832
www.mexico-travel.com


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## macmanrider

John Cummings said:


> Mike has given some excellent information. Though we have stayed 10 weeks at the Grand Mayan resorts as an exchanger, we have never been to a sales presentation there. The sales presentations may be brutal but they don't pressure you to attend one. At check-in we told them that we don't do sales presentations and that was it. They never bothered us after that.
> 
> This discussion should not be limited to just Grupo Mayan sales presentations. The majority of sales presentations in Mexico are equally as bad. I am not saying all of them are that bad but the vast majority are. They have a lot more latitude to lie and threaten in Mexico than most other countries. The Grupo Mayan probably gets a lot more publicity because they are the largest resort group in Mexico.
> 
> We attended a sales presentation at the John Newcombe resort in Puerto Vallarta several years ago. I don't know what it is called now. In any event they offered us a bunch of great tours so we went. We were well prepared as I have lived and worked in Mexico, am fluent in Spanish, owned a business there, and my wife is Mexican. In any event it became somewhat nasty but we knew how to handle it so needless to say we didn't buy anything and did get our tours. We met a young American couple at the pool that also took the sales presentation. They said it was brutal and they threatened to throw the couple out of the resort and all kinds of other dire threats if they didn't buy. Fortunately the young couple were able to resist and didn't but anything.
> 
> After that we decided that there is nothing that anybody could offer us to entice us to do any sales presentations no matter where. Our time and tranquility are worth far more. We had done 2 presentations before in the US at 2 different resorts where we own but they were very pleasant with no pressure at all.
> 
> Having said all of this, my advice is simply DON'T go to any sales presentations. You are already at the resort so you you should know whether you like it or not. If you want more information, talk to other guests at the resort. Do research on the Internet. Don't be in a hurry because you can always buy at anytime in the future. Check resales.
> 
> My personal opinion is don't buy a timeshare in Mexico. They are very easy to trade into at anytime of the year. This means that they will have low trading power. If you want to buy a timeshare, buy a good quality timeshare in the US with good trading power that you would like to visit yourself.
> 
> We have not only exchanged into the Grand Mayans, but also the Royal Mayan, and several others in various locations.
> 
> If you really feel that whatever goodies are being offered are worth going to a sales presentation then be prepared to pay a high price for it.


I agree we own fixed weeks at costa sur. In pv In 2030 our our contact is up for renewal if no family member wants to renew it were done with the TS . and you can find fixed weeks at costa sur from a broker. In pv the restaurant sucks but we like taking the bus or taxi to go eat at many different restaurants


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