# DVC Rental Policies?



## BocaBum99 (May 26, 2010)

Can someone summarize the DVC rental policies?  I know that there are some restrictions placed on commercial activity.  I just don't recall the exact details of those policies.

Here are some specific questions.

1) Disney limits the number of transfers into and out of a given account.  What are those limits?  Once per year?  Either into or out of the account?

2) If an owner wants to rent reservations out of their own account, is there a limit to the number of reservations they can rent?  My understanding is that it is once per year.  Does that also mean that an owner can only add a guest to a reservation once per year?

I am very interested in the new Disney Aulani resort.  Trying to figure out the best way to get there. Renting, owning, trading or a combination of thereof.  But, it depends on the rules.

Can anyone help me out?

Thanks,

Jim


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## bnoble (May 26, 2010)

1: One transfer (in *or* out, not both) per year.

2: There is some number which will cause an account to be flagged "for further investigation".  That number is in the teens of reservations per year, I think.  You can find discussion of the policy in some old DISboards threads under the DVC Operations forum.  Search for "commercial" to turn them up.  It's all very FUD in terms of what happens, though---I don't think I've yet read a first-hand account.

I would wait to see the point charts before I got too excited.  Disney's track record outside the WDW domain is spotty at best.  Granted, there are only a couple of examples, but still---they don't seem to translate the model very well outside the friendly confines of the Reedy Creek Improvement District.  Vero and HHI are almost certainly better traded into than rented/owned, unless you need a peak time in a large unit.  The Grand Californian seems to be limited to the most die-hard mouse addicts.  Otherwise, there are oodles of perfectly acceptable properties within walking distance (including the WorldMark.)


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## BocaBum99 (May 26, 2010)

I don't want to turn a DVC purchase into a commercial renting activity.   But, it would be nice to have all my Aulani trips paid for.  If Disney defines commercial activity as less than 13 ressies per year with guests, I'd pick up a thousand or so points for personal use and some rentals to offset costs just enough to pay for all of my trips.  Is that type of activity prohibited?

I feel pretty confident that Aulani will be a great renter.  At least enough to pay for all of my personal trips.


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## bnoble (May 26, 2010)

The only thing to be concerned about is changes in the nastygram threshold.  And, I'm not so sure why the Disney resort is going to net much better rental proceeds than, say, the Marriott next door without having a theme park in its backyard.  But, I'd bet that Disney will be more expensive to buy and to own.

I'll want to see the point charts and dues level before I commit to an opinion, but for the most part DVC owners are earning about 5-7% ROI on WDW rentals, pre-tax.  Pretty mediocre.  If Aulani breaks the same way, you'd be better off buying just enough points for personal use, and offsetting the costs with a *different* ownership with a better ROI.  Don't confuse use with investment.


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## BocaBum99 (May 26, 2010)

bnoble said:


> The only thing to be concerned about is changes in the nastygram threshold.  And, I'm not so sure why the Disney resort is going to net much better rental proceeds than, say, the Marriott next door without having a theme park in its backyard.  But, I'd bet that Disney will be more expensive to buy and to own.
> 
> I'll want to see the point charts and dues level before I commit to an opinion, but for the most part DVC owners are earning about 5-7% ROI on WDW rentals, pre-tax.  Pretty mediocre.  If Aulani breaks the same way, you'd be better off buying just enough points for personal use, and offsetting the costs with a *different* ownership with a better ROI.  Don't confuse use with investment.



LOL.  I said I didn't want to create a commercial business out of this, it wouldn't be worth it.  Too much capital for such a pittance of a return.  I don't invest in any timeshare initiative with less than a 50% annual return on invested capital.  No need to waste your time on anything less.

You can get $250-300/night for a 2 br unit on Oahu.  Depending on the point table, it may be fun to have a bunch of points.  Actually, I am just trying to find a way to justify a DVC ownership mostly for personal use.  Now that ROFR rates are dropping so much, it may be a good opportunity to sell non-Aulani Disney properties to the Japanese tourists who are clearly the target customers for this resort.  That would be a worthwhile commercial endeavor.


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## littlestar (May 26, 2010)

I've heard there's a clause in the POS that prohibits commercial renting.  I've heard they start noticing/looking more closely at around 20 reservations a year. 

I've never been limited to how many guests I can make reservations for (the most I've done in one year has been about 5 back when I owned more points). DVC doesn't charge a guest certificate fee.  

I'd love to take a peek at the point charts for the Aulani Oahu resort.  I just received the newest Disney Files magazine yesterday (DVC member publication) and there's a big spread on Aulani. The first phase is scheduled to open in the fall of 2011. It says it's supposed to have 481 two bedroom equivalent DVC villas and 360 traditional hotel rooms on 21 acres. There's an official website at www.DisneyAulani.com.


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## alwysonvac (May 27, 2010)

If you haven't, checkout Mouseowner's DVC Information and News page - http://www.mouseowners.com/info/
It covers the point transfer rules and much more.


*The price per point at Disney's Aulani may be high*
Currently DVC resorts are selling at over $100 point from the developer - http://dvcnews.com/index.php/dvc-program/financial/pricing-a-promotions
Bay Lake Tower at Disney's Contemporary Villas @ $120/pt
Villas at Disney's Grand Californian Hotel @ $112/pt

*Will you need the home resort advantage?* Who know's for sure 
Home resort advantage let's you book at the 11 month mark where non-home resort owners have to wait until the 7 month mark. 
But if I had to guess, I would think there would be lots of competition any time the kids are out of school since families like the "Disney" name.  Point requirements for stays during these periods will be high. It also depends on the point chart and the number of rooms available in each of the room categories. There might be more competition for the cheapest point rooms and/or the rooms with the best views.

*Some folks expect point requirements to be as high as the newer resorts or worst *
Point Charts for newer resorts
*Bay Lake Tower at Disney's Contemporary Resort* Point Chart - http://www.wdwinfo.com/disney-vacation-club/BLT-Points.htm#baylaketower where the standard view two bedroom goes ranges from 272pt/wk to 463pt/wk with the highest week being the week that includes Easter and XMAS/NYE (premier season)]
*The Villas at Disney's Grand Californian Hotel & Spa* Point Chart-  http://www.wdwinfo.com/disney-vacation-club/VGC-Points.htm where a two bedroom goes ranges from 340pt/wk to 650pt/wk


With all that said, I'm hoping to add on a small number of points here to spends some days here before/after my stays at the Hilton Hawaiian Village. Of course it will all depend on the price per point and point chart.


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## elaine (May 27, 2010)

*if you decide to buy--break up contracts into smaller amounts*

you might have to buy a master contract for 160-200 points, but for the additional ones, make sure they are 100 points or less.  It makes no difference for what you do--all points are combined for you and it does not cost any more.  But, if you ever find that you do not want to have that many points, it is much easier to sell 100 points--they sell faster and for more $ per point.  At most would be a 200 point contract. Also, have you seen Hawaii in the past year--there has been lots more availability of hotels and timeshares.  I do not know that you could "count" on easy rentals, esp. with the economy in California.  Plus, as others have said, DVC can change their view of commercial rentals to a lower amount. Elaine


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## klynn (May 27, 2010)

elaine said:


> ...Plus, as others have said, DVC can change their view of commercial rentals to a lower amount. Elaine


 
I just toured DVC last week and was told this exact thing in regards to DVC members renting out their points.


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## logan115 (May 28, 2010)

If I had to guess I'm thinking that a week in a 2BR at Aulani is probably AT least 400 points.  Bay Lake points direct thru DVC are $114/pt now (assuming it's still the $120 less $6 deal). So you're looking at about $45,600 for one week  

At that price, I'm not sure how much capital you'd want to tie up in trying to rent out extra points there.  While I know there will be the "DVC" premium, I just don't know how well that translates when there's no amusement park tied in to it.

Renting will cheaper than direct, the real question is what kind of availability there ends up being at 7 months.  

Chris


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## Pro (May 28, 2010)

*DVC tranfers*

DVC currently allows one transfer to another DVC member in or out *per use year.*  Last year I transferred all my 2009 Boardwalk Villas points to another DVC member for twice the maintenance fee.  The receiving member then banked them.  Yes, you can bank transferred DVC points.

It is easy to find another DVC member to transfer points in or out.  There are message boards with DVC members constantly requesting more points.

Joe


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## Carl D (May 31, 2010)

I always thought the magic number was 20 rentals that would trigger some scrutiny. Under that you may be okay..
Also remember that when renting DVC, you are never really "free & clear" of the reservation.
As with many places, if there is damage to the room it is the sole responsibility of the point holder. 
But, there have been reports of renters charging a bunch of stuff to their room and canceling their credit cards before check out. Guess who is responsible for the charges??


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## Twinkstarr (May 31, 2010)

Carl D said:


> I always thought the magic number was 20 rentals that would trigger some scrutiny. Under that you may be okay..
> Also remember that when renting DVC, you are never really "free & clear" of the reservation.
> As with many places, if there is damage to the room it is the sole responsibility of the point holder.
> But, there have been reports of renters charging a bunch of stuff to their room and canceling their credit cards before check out. Guess who is responsible for the charges??



I remember a few years ago, someone got flagged at around 18 reservations for a family reunion(I think it also included reservations for themselves for a calendar year).


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