# Questions for Maui Ocean Club Owners - New Towers or Original



## JIMinNC (Aug 30, 2017)

We’re still in the process of evaluating the best approach to add an EOY Maui Ocean Club week to our ownership. We’ve been considering a hybrid bundle to achieve the EOY week Maui goal, plus that would bump us up to Executive in the DC. But frankly, the $30K cost of that option is causing it to rapidly lose appeal.

We’re starting to lean more toward just buying a third-party resale week at MOC (obviously unenrollable) and making do with our current DC points total - at least for now. While we’ve been focusing mainly on either a 1BR, or maybe a 2BR, in the original towers, I have recently seen some listings for floating EOY 2BR units in the Napili Tower that are not outlandishly expensive. There was a post a few days ago in the ROFR sticky thread from someone who was waiting on a ROFR decision for a deal at $13.5K for an EOY OF Napili. So, for any MOC owners out there I have a couple questions:

1.) Have you ever had issues booking your owned week in the prime winter season – mainly mid-January through mid-to-late-March? We would be fine with any week in that season – i.e. – we don’t need/want Presidents week, but we’ve heard the horror stories of the big multi-week owners booking up everything and leaving nothing for the others. Any difference in new vs original towers?

2.) I think these units are lock-off units, so in years when we only need the 1BR side, can the studio side be used effectively to trade in II? As I’ve posted often on TUG, I HATE Interval trading and don’t enjoy the uncertainty and waiting, but how useful can the studio side be with ongoing searches for other Marriotts? What kind of trades can an ongoing search with a studio get? I can maybe endure a little pain if I can reasonably expect to get good stuff! We’re planners, so we are not inclined to play the last-minute instant exchange/flexchange game.

Thanks for any information you can offer.


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## JoJo12 (Aug 30, 2017)

I would add to question #1 - same for summer bookings of floating weeks.

And, if we were to own a fixed week plus a floating week and wanted to book the float concurrent with the fixed, would we be in the 13 month booking window?


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## TXTortoise (Aug 31, 2017)

JoJo12...yes you would be in the 13 month window.

Jim, a few of us newbies have been wrestling with that for the last 6-9 months. The angst over reserving a MOC week in prime winter has me chasing a fixed week in Lahaina or three floating weeks in MOC to get ahead of the curve. Mostly because, like you, I'm tired of chasing a trade in flex period that I use to get 6-9 months out with Streamside at Vail. 

Most threads about reserving floating weeks in either of the new towers revolve around the difficulty of getting a prime winter and maybe to a slight lesser extent summer. And I've read them all. 

Based on my experience with II trades of my  weak Streamside trader I would say late January weeks 3-4 should be doable as an owner in the older buildings. 

If you are willing to lock in a week 3-4 or 9-11 the price on 2BR new tower fixed are dropping into the mid to high 30s, with one 3rd floor week 10 fixed in Lahaina at $30k asking. Finding one of the few Napili EOY weeks may be really hard.  EY floating I bet will be doable in the high 20s as MFs start coming due. 

Would one 2BR OF EOY from each, MMO and MM1, make sense for you?  Gets you 13 months out and ability to shop availability in both buildings for about $30k and MF of approximately $2400 EOY.


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## JIMinNC (Aug 31, 2017)

TXTortoise said:


> JoJo12...yes you would be in the 13 month window.
> 
> Jim, a few of us newbies have been wrestling with that for the last 6-9 months. The angst over reserving a MOC week in prime winter has me chasing a fixed week in Lahaina or three floating weeks in MOC to get ahead of the curve. Mostly because, like you, I'm tired of chasing a trade in flex period that I use to get 6-9 months out with Streamside at Vail.
> 
> ...



I also recall the threads over the last few years expressing frustration with reserving winter dates, and found a few with a search, but posted the question anyway in hopes of getting some current responses consolidated into a current thread and maybe some more recent experiences.

I'm not inclined to go for fixed weeks, since I don't think we want to be locked into a specific week. Some years we might want to go in early January when the PGA Tour is at Kapalua, other years later in January or in February or March. And if we decide to do a family trip, since our daughter will be in college for at least 4-6 years, we might have to do summer in those years. So we probably need floating.

I also think it pretty much has to be an EOY - either in the Original Towers or Napili Tower - since that is our anticipated frequency of use. I don't want to have to deal with trading or renting out the unused unit in years we don't go there. We had that situation with our old Kaanapali Beach Club week, and I don't want to get back into that trap.

I'm not sure the two EOY weeks approach works either, although the 13 month option is appealing. We would likely stay two weeks in Hawaii, but not two on Maui. Some years we might stay week two on the Big Island, other years Kauai, and in yet other years maybe try KoOlina. I only want to own an unenrolled deeded week somewhere that I think I'm going to use the vast, vast majority of the time.

I'm still somewhat on the fence on 1BR vs 2BR. What we'll need most often is probably the 1BR - and that's where my thinking started - but the simple fact that sometimes we might want a 2BR and the 2BR maintenance fees are only slightly more than the 1BR, keeps tugging at me. If we could be confident that we could fairly easily get good trades from the studio side of a 2BR lock-off, I might be willing to bite the bullet on the higher buy-in for the 2BR, even though I detest trading. So, when I saw some listings and TUG mentions of EOY OF 2BR Napili units selling for around $14K-$15K, that piqued my interest. But I don't want to buy into something that is a big hassle to reserve. Hence my questions. Is it really that hard to reserve the new towers with a floating week, and how do the studio portions trade? I guess I would have the same question about the 2BR units in the Original Towers as well. I have read that 1BR units in the Original Towers are not as difficult to grab at 12  months.

The DC Points hybrid bundle solves all those problems, since with an enrolled Maui week the points become 100% fungible and we can reconfigure/book exactly what we need. It's subject to availability, of course, but with points we would have the option to search in either the Original or Lahaina/Napili towers, or just book our owned 1BR week that was part of the bundle. I'm just having some angst over the likely $30K price for that bundle - and only having a EOY 1BR MOC week plus just 2000 more DC points to show for that size expenditure. We're also looking at buying a full-ownership vacation villa in Hilton Head and that $30K would come in handy there, too.


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## TXTortoise (Aug 31, 2017)

Great summary. I asked the same question about ease of trading in(can't search for thread at the moment) and I think I got one response from multiweek (2+) owners on ease of trade. 

Hope we hear more this time, as it's critical to a lot of decisions.


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## toddc2 (Aug 31, 2017)

JIMinNC said:


> I'm still somewhat on the fence on 1BR vs 2BR. What we'll need most often is probably the 1BR - and that's where my thinking started - but the simple fact that sometimes we might want a 2BR and the 2BR maintenance fees are only slightly more than the 1BR, keeps tugging at me. If we could be confident that we could fairly easily get good trades from the studio side of a 2BR lock-off, I might be willing to bite the bullet on the higher buy-in for the 2BR, even though I detest trading. So, when I saw some listings and TUG mentions of EOY OF 2BR Napili units selling for around $14K-$15K, that piqued my interest. But I don't want to buy into something that is a big hassle to reserve. Hence my questions. Is it really that hard to reserve the new towers with a floating week, and how do the studio portions trade? I guess I would have the same question about the 2BR units in the Original Towers as well. I have read that 1BR units in the Original Towers are not as difficult to grab at 12 months.



Go with the 2BR. The MF's aren't much higher, you can always lock it off if you don't need it, and trust me the extra space is great when the kids get older.

The Napili EOY units look ideal, especially in the sub-$15k price range.

Your questions on reservation hassle have no good answer: owning a single floating week at MOC more or less ensures some future frustration. I personally would not let that detract me from buying.

Good luck with whatever you decide to do.

Todd


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## GregT (Aug 31, 2017)

I know the question was posed with respect to Napili Towers, but just as a reminder, an OF unit could be in either Napili or Lahaina.   Napili has Island View as its other view category and Lahaina has Mountain Garden and Ocean View -- with Ocean Front being the only category shared across the view categories.

Personally, I used to own two OF float weeks in the new towers and when I was not able to book them 13 months out for a Spring Break trip, I soured on the floating week.   Granted, you have more flexibility in target weeks than I did, since I needed Spring Break week, but others (MoxJo?) have reported not getting their reservation 13 months out for whale season.  I think it is a crapshoot and you have a higher probability of getting your reservation with points versus a traditional week.

Since you are already enrolled, why not rent points and save either the $15K or $30K when you want to go EOY?   

Best,

Greg


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## JoJo12 (Aug 31, 2017)

GregT said:


> I think it is a crapshoot and you have a higher probability of getting your reservation with points versus a traditional week.
> 
> Since you are already enrolled, why not rent points and save either the $15K or $30K when you want to go EOY?
> 
> ...



As a Newbie who has read the stickies on Weeks and Points multiple times, and thanks to Jim, have a basic understanding of hybrid buying, why do you think points has a higher probability then a floating week?  Is it because you think there is more inventory in the points bucket?  It sounds like both could have future frustration as a possibility.

Thanks everyone for all of your guidance on this decision.


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## csodjd (Aug 31, 2017)

JIMinNC said:


> So, when I saw some listings and TUG mentions of EOY OF 2BR Napili units selling for around $14K-$15K, that piqued my interest. But I don't want to buy into something that is a big hassle to reserve. Hence my questions. Is it really that hard to reserve the new towers with a floating week


For what it's worth... 

I can't speak to the winter months, but can speak a bit to the summer, because I just dealt with it. Napili. 2 Bedroom, oceanfront. The goal was a Sat. Aug 4 check-in for one week, which I understand is a very popular time (after summer school, before school starts), and also a popular time with our Japanese colleagues/owners. It was the 12-month window. At 6:00am PST, Sat. Aug 4 check-in was not available. BUT, Sunday check-in was. Two different people were able to book Sunday Aug 5 for one week.


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## m61376 (Aug 31, 2017)

Greg- wasn't Joe's issue related more to getting President's week specifically (although I could be remembering wrong)?
Jim-
While not playing with a Maui studio, I can attest to some great trades with an Aruba studio- last year for a Dec. 2 BR Maui unit, in fact, and a few months outside of Flex.
Another consideration- we first bought when our youngest was a few years older than yours, but now fast forward 10 years and, well, what a difference a decade has made! Our older two grandsons have come down the last four years (since the eldest was 4 months and his brother 3 1/2 months) and our younger daughter and family (including our now 10 week old grandbaby) are talking about coming down next year. So while the 3BR even seemed superfluous at the time, now we may need more space. You're nearing a point in the not too far distant future where you may really appreciate a 2 BR and, in the interim, you can lock off or invite other family or friends to join you. Just food for thought.


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## JIMinNC (Aug 31, 2017)

GregT said:


> I know the question was posed with respect to Napili Towers, but just as a reminder, an OF unit could be in either Napili or Lahaina.   Napili has Island View as its other view category and Lahaina has Mountain Garden and Ocean View -- with Ocean Front being the only category shared across the view categories.
> 
> Personally, I used to own two OF float weeks in the new towers and when I was not able to book them 13 months out for a Spring Break trip, I soured on the floating week.   Granted, you have more flexibility in target weeks than I did, since I needed Spring Break week, but others (MoxJo?) have reported not getting their reservation 13 months out for whale season.  I think it is a crapshoot and you have a higher probability of getting your reservation with points versus a traditional week.
> 
> ...



Greg,

I posed the original question as specific to Napili because my understanding is that only Napili has EOY float units, and Lahaina is only annual. But your point is a good one, that the resulting reservation could be in either building, so the relevant metric is actually overall oceanfront availability between both new towers. Is it your understanding that the float units in the original towers have the same issues as you experienced in your time as a float owner in the new towers?

Just renting the points is certainly an option I've included in my thinking, since my experience shopping the points system has mirrored what you noted - that at least at 12 months, there is usually good MOC availability in the points system. While I'm comfortable renting smaller numbers of points to "top off" my needs as they fluctuate from year-to-year, I'm not quite there yet on relying on rentals as a primary strategy for somewhere I know I want to go on some sort of regular basis. Particularly somewhere like Maui that would require big rental transactions. My issues with that are:

If we have a reservation made with a bunch of rented points (and it takes a bunch to book MOC) and then have to cancel the reservation, I have no ability to bank those transferred points to the following year as I would with owned points. When we had to cancel an MOC reservation in 2016 I was able to use some of those 7450 "freed up" points in 2016 and bank the remainder to 2017 for use this year. If all of those had been locked into 2016, as they would have been with rented points, I would have had a big problem.
There have been a number of times recently when there were very few rental listings on VPE. That concerns me when looking at rentals as a primary strategy vs. a supplemental strategy. When I recently rented 875 points, there was only one person who had what I needed.
The recent scammers that have discovered VPE concern me. While that can be solved by only dealing with known, trusted VPE members, when coupled with bullet #2 just above, further limiting the potential sellers heightens my concern that the points will not be there to rent when I need them.
While I'm a big fan of DC points for flexibility and for going to different places, I'm still in the camp that says that for going to the same place on some sort of regular basis, owning a week there is the most cost effective. Using a $0.60/point rental cost (which seems to be the most prevalent price now on VPE) the 7450 points required for an MOC 2BR OF in the original towers would cost $4470 to rent, and the 8650 points required for a 2BR OF in the new towers would cost $5190 to rent. Compare that to the maintenance fee costs for those same weeks of $2200 (original towers) or $2500 (new towers). Even if you assume you have to give away the week if you want to sell in the future, it wouldn't take that many use-years to recoup the $13K to $15K cost of an EOY 2BR unit. If you assume as a resale purchase you could at least recoup half to two-thirds of your purchase cost when you sell, the breakeven is only about 3 use-years.
But that "weeks" ownership advantage is moot if you can't book what you own.


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## JIMinNC (Aug 31, 2017)

Note, given Greg's point above that new tower bookings can wind up in either tower even if you own Napili and since the issue that I'm asking about really is applicable to either the new or original towers, I've changed the title of the thread and edited my OP accordingly.


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## JoJo12 (Aug 31, 2017)

TXTortoise said:


> The angst over reserving a MOC week in prime winter has me chasing a fixed week in Lahaina or three floating weeks in MOC to get ahead of the curve. .



Could you please explain how three floating weeks at MOC would get you ahead of the curve?  As opposed to two weeks which still gets you into the 13 month window.

Edited to add: If you bought floating weeks now, you would be past the time where you could reserve scarce weeks for 2018, right?


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## TXTortoise (Aug 31, 2017)

The way I understand it is while two weeks let's me book 13 months out, having the third week lets me start a week before those with two weeks, as long as we're booking consecutive weeks.

For instance, if I want Week 7. Presidents Week, with only one week I try to reserve 12 months prior. If I have two weeks I can try not only 13 months out, but actually 13 months from Week 6, then ask for Week 7 with my other week. Three weeks let's me start with Week 5, then 6 and 7. Now if I own six or more weeks think how early I can start to book a month or more on Maui.

At least that's the way I understand it.

Now if I only need two weeks, that's a lot of MF to pay for three or more....unless I want to rent the others.

If I was buying floating weeks now for 2018, my offer would be dependent on what 2018 week the seller has already reserved or can get.  The last one I bought had reserved 27 Jan 2018, so that worked for me.  If you want summer, not so much.


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## JIMinNC (Sep 1, 2017)

I just had a thought...it might be more meaningful for my situation to get feedback on the winter reservation availability question from Maui Ocean Club SINGLE WEEK owners who have to reserve at 12 months rather than 13. Either original towers owners or new towers.


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## drlee (Sep 1, 2017)

Maui in the wintertime months Jan-Mar are very popular. Lots of people want these weeks, in both old and new units. There are many strategies to securing a week in the timeframe you want. Having consecutive weeks to book, at 13 months increases the odds. If the first week is not prime (ie island or mountain view) that increases the odds, as second weeks will book earlier than single 12 month bookings. Also, considering the newer towers....don't count on a particular tower having fixed or float weeks in original inventory. Marriott will place you in the proper view category in either tower, whether the original unit was fixed or not, or whether it was sold as EOY or not. The trick is to get your reservation when you want. It's not clear how destination points fit into the inventory situation, as points owners don't own at MOC, so I'm not sure how weeks get into the points inventory. Trades in these months is tough, but do happen. I've traded into MOC several times using an Aruba week. Lock offs work for us when we bring family. In years we don't, we lengthen our vacation We could easily trade or rent the extra space, but choose to use it instead. If you're considering buying recommend a 2br whether eoy or annual.


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## JoJo12 (Sep 1, 2017)

drlee said:


> ...don't count on a particular tower having fixed or float weeks in original inventory. Marriott will place you in the proper view category in either tower, whether the original unit was fixed or not, or whether it was sold as EOY or not



As I understand, the above statement does not apply to someone who owns a fixed week/fixed unit deed in the newer towers.  Right?  Also, do you have any experience with how difficult floating summer weeks 26-33 are compared to the winter months?


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## taffy19 (Sep 2, 2017)

JIMinNC said:


> I just had a thought...it might be more meaningful for my situation to get feedback on the winter reservation availability question from Maui Ocean Club SINGLE WEEK owners who have to reserve at 12 months rather than 13. Either original towers owners or new towers.


We are a single week owner at the MOC in the Lahaina Villas and would like to reply to your request but I don't know the exact answer.  If you occupy your whole fixed week/unit, you will stay in your deeded timeshare.  If you lock-off a fixed week/unit, you no longer deal with the Marriott direct but have to use the II Corporate account so I assume that you could be put in the Lahaina or Napili towers for the adjacent week.  I have no idea how easy that may be.

We tried three years on a row to make our 2 BR unit last two consecutive weeks but didn't succeed because we needed a specific week but that was at the time that the Destination Club was introduced and II told us that our chances were very slim.  Before the DC club was introduced, our exchange came through within 24 hours because Marriott put their inventory in II at that time but now they put their inventory in the DC instead.

I doubt that many MM1 owners put their fixed week/units or float/floats in II but rent them out or deposit them in the DC to go to a different location because of the high point value we receive.  If I were you, I would call them to find out or you may still hear from another single fixed week/owner as they are out there.  We haven't exchanged in years.


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## JIMinNC (Sep 2, 2017)

taffy19 said:


> We are a single week owner at the MOC in the Lahaina Villas and would like to reply to your request but I don't know the exact answer.  If you occupy your whole fixed week/unit, you will stay in your deeded timeshare.  If you lock-off a fixed week/unit, you no longer deal with the Marriott direct but have to use the II Corporate account so I assume that you could be put in the Lahaina or Napili towers for the adjacent week.  I have no idea how easy that may be.
> 
> We tried three years on a row to make our 2 BR unit last two consecutive weeks but didn't succeed because we needed a specific week but that was at the time that the Destination Club was introduced and II told us that our chances were very slim.  Before the DC club was introduced, our exchange came through within 24 hours because Marriott put their inventory in II at that time but now they put their inventory in the DC instead.
> 
> I doubt that many MM1 owners put their fixed week/units or float/floats in II but rent them out or deposit them in the DC to go to a different location because of the high point value we receive.  If I were you, I would call them to find out or you may still hear from another single fixed week/owner as they are out there.  We haven't exchanged in years.



I think I may not have been 100% clear about my question. I'm not asking about locking off a fixed unit for two weeks at MOC. (I think TXTortoise may have been the one asking about fixed weeks.)

My question is specific to how difficult is it for a single week EOY FLOATING owner at MOC (in either the original or new towers, either 2BR OF or 1BR OF/OV) to book their owned week in the popular Jan-Mar period? We would not need a specific week in most cases. I have no issue booking right when the 12 month window opens. I've just read all the stories about multiweek owners stringing together weeks and don't want to buy something that is frustrating to use.

My secondary question is if we buy a 2BR instead of a 1BR, and in some years lock off the studio portion (we would use the 1BR part at MOC), can the studio get decent II trades to other Marriotts in 1BR or larger units without waiting for last minute trades?

I hope that clarifies.


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## drlee (Sep 2, 2017)

JoJo12 said:


> As I understand, the above statement does not apply to someone who owns a fixed week/fixed unit deed in the newer towers.  Right?  Also, do you have any experience with how difficult floating summer weeks 26-33 are compared to the winter months?



What we were told by a salesperson we trust is that not all weeks designated as fixed were actually sold that way. Your statement is true for actual fixed week owners, but many of those units shown as fixed are actually not. Both floating week people (us) and DP people (pool talk) have ended up on ninth floor Napili for example. I have no experience with summer weeks, as we always book in Jan-Feb-Mar. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## csodjd (Sep 2, 2017)

JIMinNC said:


> My question is specific to how difficult is it for a single week EOY FLOATING owner at MOC (in either the original or new towers, either 2BR OF or 1BR OF/OV) to book their owned week in the popular Jan-Mar period? We would not need a specific week in most cases. I have no issue booking right when the 12 month window opens. I've just read all the stories about multiweek owners stringing together weeks and don't want to buy something that is frustrating to use.


I'm in much the same boat. I'm buying now exactly that. If it turns out to be hard to get what I want reserved, my strategy will likely be to purchase a second week somewhere at lower cost (maybe Kauai, or MOV island view in the old building) to get me access to the 13 month reservation window, reserve them both, and rent the other (or use it for grown kids to join us). I may choose to do that anyway.


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## TXTortoise (Sep 2, 2017)

From historical threads we know that a number of units in Lahaina were originally deeded as fixed, but subsequently changed and sold as float. I'm not aware of that happening in Napili though, but certainly possible.

For those that have ended up in a 'fixed week' unit, other than in the above case, wouldn't that just mean the owners of the fixed weeks deposited for points that year?

That said, when weeks are converted by points owners is that week available to only floating weeks owners booking through Marriott, only points owners booking, or both?


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## GaryDouglas (Sep 2, 2017)

csodjd said:


> ..., my strategy will likely be to purchase a second week somewhere at lower cost (maybe Kauai, or MOV island view in the old building) to get me access to the 13 month reservation window, reserve them both, and rent the other (or use it for grown kids to join us). I may choose to do that anyway.



You may find that having only 7 days at MOC is not long enough and having to pick up and take another plane to another location with all the trauma of going through another airport... you may find that two EOY weeks will be to your advantage at MOC.  Increases your odds of getting your desired week, being there two weeks has its advantages, and if you get the 2 BR, you can be there up to 4 weeks, which come in handy at retirement age.


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## csodjd (Sep 3, 2017)

GaryDouglas said:


> You may find that having only 7 days at MOC is not long enough and having to pick up and take another plane to another location with all the trauma of going through another airport... you may find that two EOY weeks will be to your advantage at MOC.  Increases your odds of getting your desired week, being there two weeks has its advantages, and if you get the 2 BR, you can be there up to 4 weeks, which come in handy at retirement age.


True. My wife thinks 7 months isn't long enough. <g> But I also have two annual weeks ocean view in the Lagoon Tower in Oahu. A short Hawaiian Air hop is pretty easy and I can go to/from LAX from either Oahu or Maui, so I'm actually thinking of two trips over annually most years and being able to mix things up a bit.  It'll be interesting to see how EOY pricing evolves over the next few years. What does seem obvious to me though, at least for me because I have the two weeks at the Lagoon Tower, is that two EOY at MOC will be better than one annual at MOC. The benefit of the 13 month reservation window, and lots of mix and match possibilities.


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## hangloose (Sep 3, 2017)

My thoughts.

First, 7 days on Hawaii is generally not long enough....unless you are flying from U.S. West coast. Since you are in/out of LAX,  the 5-6 hr flight makes a week long vacation doable.  If flying from anywhere else, plan to stay at least 10 days. 

Second, we struggled with this same question.  If you buy a single MOC week, can you consistently get a high demand week during peak season at 12 months out.  While it sounds like it can happen if you are a little flexible on dates and/or day of the week, there is more concern expressed on TUG around the inability to do so rather than ability to.  This made me too nervous to purchase a single MOC float week.  As a result, we are in process of picking up 1 MOC EY week and 1 MKO EY week. We will plan to book both consecutive at 13 months, increasing our odds of success...while not guaranteeing our odds.  We may also lock-off these weeks if needed, allowing us to book beyond 13 months out...which further increases on chances.  In the end, it's a crap shoot.   While I'd love to have a fixed week, that just doesn't work for our schedules now.  It is also less financially palatable. 

Third, if you only plan to go to MVC MOC EOY for 2 weeks, I agree that perhaps purchasing two EOY MOC weeks may be better than one annual. This allows you in the even or odd years to attempt to reserve 13 months in advance of your travel dates.    It may cost slightly more in upfront purchase price for two EOY weeks vs one EY week, but being able to book at 13 months might be worth it.   The other option..is purchase 2 EY weeks...and just rent the years you don't use.  You can likely make over your maintenance fees at MOC.

Lastly, think about whether you want MOC old suites or new villas.  Based on what I read on TUG, the old suites have a higher chance for a reservation at 13 months out than the newer villas.   Some of this may depend on view, but something to consider.


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## JIMinNC (Sep 3, 2017)

hangloose said:


> My thoughts.
> 
> First, 7 days on Hawaii is generally not long enough....unless you are flying from U.S. West coast. Since you are in/out of LAX,  the 5-6 hr flight makes a week long vacation doable.  If flying from anywhere else, plan to stay at least 10 days.



I agree. We've never traveled to Hawaii for less than 10-12 days. Most trips over the last 25 years have been two or sometimes three weeks. The EOY MOC week we are contemplating would be for the week on Maui. We would need to use points or something else for the second week. My wife loves the Big Island, so we've talked about picking up an inexpensive HGVC week in Orlando or Vegas to use the HGVC system for the Big Island. IF we do that, it becomes more difficult to add a second EOY Marriott Hawaii week to be able to take advantage of the 13 month window. Except for that complication, an EOY MOC coupled with a EOY Kauai would be a perfect solution.



> Second, we struggled with this same question.  If you buy a single MOC week, can you consistently get a high demand week during peak season at 12 months out.  While it sounds like it can happen if you are a little flexible on dates and/or day of the week, there is more concern expressed on TUG around the inability to do so rather than ability to.  This made me too nervous to purchase a single MOC float week.  As a result, we are in process of picking up 1 MOC EY week and 1 MKO EY week. We will plan to book both consecutive at 13 months, increasing our odds of success...while not guaranteeing our odds.  We may also lock-off these weeks if needed, allowing us to book beyond 13 months out...which further increases on chances.  In the end, it's a crap shoot.   While I'd love to have a fixed week, that just doesn't work for our schedules now.  It is also less financially palatable.
> 
> Third, if you only plan to go to MVC MOC EOY for 2 weeks, I agree that perhaps purchasing two EOY MOC weeks may be better than one annual. This allows you in the even or odd years to attempt to reserve 13 months in advance of your travel dates.    It may cost slightly more in upfront purchase price for two EOY weeks vs one EY week, but being able to book at 13 months might be worth it.   The other option..is purchase 2 EY weeks...and just rent the years you don't use.  You can likely make over your maintenance fees at MOC.
> 
> Lastly, think about whether you want MOC old suites or new villas.  Based on what I read on TUG, the old suites have a higher chance for a reservation at 13 months out than the newer villas.   Some of this may depend on view, but something to consider.



It's certainly a conundrum for us. Having the MOC EOY week coupled with enough points to allow us to choose between Kauai, Big Island, and KoOlina on different trips is the ideal solution.  But that means being a single week MOC owner and having to have enough points to book the second/third island, PLUS have enough points to use for other MVC destinations in the years we don't go to Hawaii. That's where the hybrid works really, really well, but at a significant cost.


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## hangloose (Sep 3, 2017)

Realize also...that both MVC Hawaii weeks don't have to be at MOC in order to book 13 months in advance.  MOC tends to command a price premium vs the other MVC HI resorts. So, if you are okay island hopping via one week at MOC and one week on another MVC HI resort on another island...your entry point purchase price could be lower.  You could buy the second week at Ko Olina, Kauai Beach Club, or Waiohai and save some cash.  We went this route with one week at MOC and one at MKO, then we'll be able to still book 2 HI weeks at 13 months...with MOC being the first week every time to ensure we get into that 13 month inventory asap.  Time will tell if this works or not but I am hopeful!


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## csodjd (Sep 3, 2017)

hangloose said:


> It may cost slightly more in upfront purchase price for two EOY weeks vs one EY week


I'm not really noticing much difference. Seems, at least for Napili/Lahaina oceanfront 2-bedroom, that the EOY is about half the cost of EY. Two EY weeks is a big purchase outlay of cash. No doubt the rental will cover MF, but that's about a $60k cash expense. If the goal is use every other, rent every other, that's about $30k spent to buy a rental. With $~2500 annual expense, it'll take about 12 years to earn that back in rental. It's a less than 10% rate of return.


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## csodjd (Sep 3, 2017)

hangloose said:


> Realize also...that both MVC Hawaii weeks don't have to be at MOC in order to book 13 months in advance.  MOC tends to command a price premium vs the other MVC HI resorts. So, if you are okay island hopping via one week at MOC and one week on another MVC HI resort on another island...your entry point purchase price could be lower.  You could buy the second week at Ko Olina, Kauai Beach Club, or Waiohai and save some cash.  We went this route with one week at MOC and one at MKO, then we'll be able to still book 2 HI weeks at 13 months...with MOC being the first week every time to ensure we get into that 13 month inventory asap.  Time will tell if this works or not but I am hopeful!


I think this is a good strategy. The choice is really what to buy for that second week. One option is buy it at MOC also, then have the 13 mo window and two weeks in Maui, perhaps up to 4 if you lock off, etc. Another is what you have done, with the 2nd week at another MVC Hawaii location. Also a good option, but means you don't have the two weeks at MOC.


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## JIMinNC (Sep 3, 2017)

hangloose said:


> Realize also...that both MVC Hawaii weeks don't have to be at MOC in order to book 13 months in advance.  MOC tends to command a price premium vs the other MVC HI resorts. So, if you are okay island hopping via one week at MOC and one week on another MVC HI resort on another island...your entry point purchase price could be lower.  You could buy the second week at Ko Olina, Kauai Beach Club, or Waiohai and save some cash.  We went this route with one week at MOC and one at MKO, then we'll be able to still book 2 HI weeks at 13 months...with MOC being the first week every time to ensure we get into that 13 month inventory asap.  Time will tell if this works or not but I am hopeful!



Yes, that's why I said above that an EOY MOC coupled with an EOY Kauai would be a great way to get access to the 13 month window - except that we also really like the Big Island, so not sure if we would be able to do Kauai EOY. Many trips would need to be MOC plus Big Island.


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## GregT (Sep 3, 2017)

All,

I realize that I'm going slightly off topic here, but TUGgers who are interested in traveling to Maui Every-Other-Year may also want to consider the Starwood properties up the road.  StarOptions can be purchased relatively inexpensively and there is a very good chance of making a reservation at WKORV 8 months out if you can be flexible on travel dates, especially now with Nanea opening.

I love MOC as much as anybody and just introduce the concept for a complete dialogue.

Best,

Greg


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## JoJo12 (Sep 3, 2017)

In case anyone wants to see the Disclosure statement for MOC, here is the link: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B5SEWsOipX6iS0k1WWhMczRRMGc/view


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## JoJo12 (Sep 3, 2017)

FWIW - The following is on page 6 of the disclosure statement:  Notice it says the 13 month reservation can only be for owner occupancy.  They probably have the right to have changed it since.  

Owners will have the ability to request a reservation for a seven (7) night stay for an accommodation for a check-in day on a first come, first served basis, with other Owners, beginning
twelve (12) months in advance of the requested check-in day. An Owner's request shall be timely if received no later than seventy-five (75) days prior to the first day of a Use Period. Owners who own more that one Ownership Interest may reserve concurrent, meaning two (2) or more Units during the same Use Period, or consecutive Use Periods, meaning one (1) or more Units for two (2) or more Use Periods in a row, for Owner *occupancy* only thirteen (13) months in advance of the first requested check-in day for the first Use Period reserved, however, no more than fifty percent (50%) of the available non-Developer inventory for each Use Period can be reserved more than one (1) year in advance in this manner. Any cancellation for a Use Period reserved in this manner must include all concurrent or consecutive Use Periods reserved with the Use Period canceled.


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## BocaBoy (Sep 3, 2017)

hangloose said:


> Realize also...that both MVC Hawaii weeks don't have to be at MOC in order to book 13 months in advance.  MOC tends to command a price premium vs the other MVC HI resorts. So, if you are okay island hopping via one week at MOC and one week on another MVC HI resort on another island...your entry point purchase price could be lower.  You could buy the second week at Ko Olina, Kauai Beach Club, or Waiohai and save some cash.  We went this route with one week at MOC and one at MKO, then we'll be able to still book 2 HI weeks at 13 months...*with MOC being the first week every time to ensure we get into that 13 month inventory asap. * Time will tell if this works or not but I am hopeful!


We have been owners in the new towers at MOC since they opened and frequently have used the 13-month booking window.  However, I recommend that you start with the non-MOC week and make MOC the second in order.  Why?  Because if it is first in your string you are competing with everyone else who wants that week at 13 months and you might not always get it.  If it is second in order, you can reserve the non-MOC week that is easier to reserve 13 months and one week before your desired Maui week and then reserved your desired MOC at the same time (a week before many of the others who also want it).  That strategy has never failed us but we have occasionally been unable to book the MOC week when it is only 13 months out.


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## SueDonJ (Sep 4, 2017)

JoJo12 said:


> FWIW - The following is on page 6 of the disclosure statement:  Notice it says the 13 month reservation can only be for owner occupancy.  They probably have the right to have changed it since.
> 
> Owners will have the ability to request a reservation for a seven (7) night stay for an accommodation for a check-in day on a first come, first served basis, with other Owners, beginning
> twelve (12) months in advance of the requested check-in day. An Owner's request shall be timely if received no later than seventy-five (75) days prior to the first day of a Use Period. Owners who own more that one Ownership Interest may reserve concurrent, meaning two (2) or more Units during the same Use Period, or consecutive Use Periods, meaning one (1) or more Units for two (2) or more Use Periods in a row, for Owner *occupancy* only thirteen (13) months in advance of the first requested check-in day for the first Use Period reserved, however, no more than fifty percent (50%) of the available non-Developer inventory for each Use Period can be reserved more than one (1) year in advance in this manner. Any cancellation for a Use Period reserved in this manner must include all concurrent or consecutive Use Periods reserved with the Use Period canceled.



In one way this is similar to the language that says the 13-mos Reservation Window can only be utilized if Owners are booking multi-Weeks at the same resort, in that the governing docs for all resorts do not contain the same restrictions.  In practice MVW has allowed multi-Weeks Owners to use the 13-mos window when booking concurrent/consecutive intervals at different resorts, and, they have allowed Owners to deposit to II or add guest names to intervals booked using the 13-mos window.

MVW hasn't ever amended the language at the resorts where "for owner occupancy only" is a condition of the 13-mos window.  (My Barony docs say it; my SurfWatch docs don't.)  But they have amended the "at the same resort" condition in one way - a revised Reservation Procedures document that was issued for all resorts in 2010 redefined "Ownership Interest" to include Weeks at any MVC resort.  Regardless, like you say, there's other language in the docs that gives MVW the right to enforce consistent rules across all resorts in order to simplify administration and management, which is what they've always done.

The last sentence of the provision you quoted has also not been enforced by MVW - cancellations of single reservations using the 13-mos Reservation Window haven't ever resulted in all concurrent/consecutive reservations being cancelled.  In fact, the same 2010 revised Res Proc doc amended this to say that cancelling a single reservation booked using the 13-mos window could result in all reservations for that entire use year being cancelled, which is much more restrictive, but again MVW is not enforcing it.  (When it was announced, though, the Owner Services reps suggested that any changes to reservations booked using the 13-mos window should not be made until their 12-mos windows open.  Some TUGgers follow that advice, others haven't, but as far as we know nobody's ever been subject to the penalty either way.)


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## csodjd (Sep 4, 2017)

BocaBoy said:


> We have been owners in the new towers at MOC since they opened and frequently have used the 13-month booking window.  However, I recommend that you start with the non-MOC week and make MOC the second in order.  Why?  Because if it is first in your string you are competing with everyone else who wants that week at 13 months and you might not always get it.  If it is second in order, you can reserve the non-MOC week that is easier to reserve 13 months and one week before your desired Maui week and then reserved your desired MOC at the same time (a week before many of the others who also want it).  That strategy has never failed us but we have occasionally been unable to book the MOC week when it is only 13 months out.


So, in other words, this strategy allows you to book the MOC 13 months and a week before you arrive? 

Question: on those occasions where you were unable to book the MOC week 13 months out, what was the time of year you were trying to book for and how much flexibility did you have?


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## ljmiii (Sep 4, 2017)

From our "What it's worth department"...

Even calling at the opening bell I was unable to book my OF MOC Sequel week July 7th 2018 at 13 months + 2 weeks.  But I was able to book July 28th 2018 at 13 months + 1 week.


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## csodjd (Sep 4, 2017)

ljmiii said:


> From our "What it's worth department"...
> 
> Even calling at the opening bell I was unable to book my OF MOC Sequel week July 7th 2018 at 13 months + 2 weeks.  But I was able to book July 28th 2018 at 13 months + 1 week.


Just curious... did you ask about July 8?


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## JoJo12 (Sep 4, 2017)

SueDonJ said:


> Regardless, like you say, there's other language in the docs that gives MVW the right to enforce consistent rules across all resorts in order to simplify administration and management, which is what they've always done.



Not expecting a definitive answer, just a comment:  What is the point of the 40 page Disclosure Statement, if in fact some of the relevant terms have been changed and a prospective buyer would have no way of knowing this?  Unless they are on TUG of course!


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## ljmiii (Sep 4, 2017)

csodjd said:


> Just curious... did you ask about July 8?


I didn't ask about Sunday because we are going to Waiohai and Maui after a Saturday to Saturday stay at Hilton Hawaiian Village. And we had some flexibility as to when we could go.


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## BocaBoy (Sep 4, 2017)

csodjd said:


> So, in other words, this strategy allows you to book the MOC 13 months and a week before you arrive?
> 
> Question: on those occasions where you were unable to book the MOC week 13 months out, what was the time of year you were trying to book for and how much flexibility did you have?


Yes, or in some cases 13 months and 2 weeks if we lock off the Ko Olina week and book both halves of the Ko Olina lock off before the Maui week.  We usually go in January/February during the prime whale season.  It gives us the flexibility to get Maui almost any time we want it, especially with the 13 months and 2 weeks approach.  My own opinion is that February and the last half of January is even harder to reserve than summer because in summer not as many people string together multiple weeks for a longer stay of a three weeks or more.


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## JIMinNC (Sep 4, 2017)

hangloose said:


> Realize also...that both MVC Hawaii weeks don't have to be at MOC in order to book 13 months in advance.  MOC tends to command a price premium vs the other MVC HI resorts. So, if you are okay island hopping via one week at MOC and one week on another MVC HI resort on another island...your entry point purchase price could be lower.  You could buy the second week at Ko Olina, Kauai Beach Club, or Waiohai and save some cash.  We went this route with one week at MOC and one at MKO, then we'll be able to still book 2 HI weeks at 13 months...with MOC being the first week every time to ensure we get into that 13 month inventory asap.  Time will tell if this works or not but I am hopeful!





csodjd said:


> I think this is a good strategy. The choice is really what to buy for that second week. One option is buy it at MOC also, then have the 13 mo window and two weeks in Maui, perhaps up to 4 if you lock off, etc. Another is what you have done, with the 2nd week at another MVC Hawaii location. Also a good option, but means you don't have the two weeks at MOC.





BocaBoy said:


> We have been owners in the new towers at MOC since they opened and frequently have used the 13-month booking window.  However, I recommend that you start with the non-MOC week and make MOC the second in order.  Why?  Because if it is first in your string you are competing with everyone else who wants that week at 13 months and you might not always get it.  If it is second in order, you can reserve the non-MOC week that is easier to reserve 13 months and one week before your desired Maui week and then reserved your desired MOC at the same time (a week before many of the others who also want it).  That strategy has never failed us but we have occasionally been unable to book the MOC week when it is only 13 months out.





BocaBoy said:


> Yes, or in some cases 13 months and 2 weeks if we lock off the Ko Olina week and book both halves of the Ko Olina lock off before the Maui week.  We usually go in January/February during the prime whale season.  It gives us the flexibility to get Maui almost any time we want it, especially with the 13 months and 2 weeks approach.  My own opinion is that February and the last half of January is even harder to reserve than summer because in summer not as many people string together multiple weeks for a longer stay of a three weeks or more.



Lots of good information and food for thought about the 13 month window and strategies to take advantage. Technically, since I already own a Silver Barony Beach Club (which includes Feb/Mar), I guess if I buy a MOC I would then qualify as a "multi-week owner", so I guess I could book my Silver Barony consecutively with a MOC week and deposit the Barony to II. But then I would be left with a February Barony week to trade which probably wouldn't get me much. Might be "sacrificing" the Barony week, effectively.

But what about the 12 month window? What if I only buy one Hawaii week? According to the docs, at least 50% of the inventory must be held back for the 12-month window. So at that point, presumably, all the multi-week owners would have already grabbed what they need at 13 months or before (when stringing together weeks). So, at 12 months, it would seem that 50% of the inventory would be still available at 9am on release day. Is it REALLY that hard to get a week at 12 months if you are online/call in right at 9am? Do they "sell out" in seconds?

So back to my bottom line question -- given the intense competition for January-March at MOC, is it foolish to just try to compete with a single week, or is it really necessary to own two weeks to book in the 13 month window to stand a realistic chance of consistently being able to get a week in that period?


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## bazzap (Sep 5, 2017)

JIMinNC said:


> Lots of good information and food for thought about the 13 month window and strategies to take advantage. Technically, since I already own a Silver Barony Beach Club (which includes Feb/Mar), I guess if I buy a MOC I would then qualify as a "multi-week owner", so I guess I could book my Silver Barony consecutively with a MOC week and deposit the Barony to II. But then I would be left with a February Barony week to trade which probably wouldn't get me much. Might be "sacrificing" the Barony week, effectively.
> 
> But what about the 12 month window? What if I only buy one Hawaii week? According to the docs, at least 50% of the inventory must be held back for the 12-month window. So at that point, presumably, all the multi-week owners would have already grabbed what they need at 13 months or before (when stringing together weeks). So, at 12 months, it would seem that 50% of the inventory would be still available at 9am on release day. Is it REALLY that hard to get a week at 12 months if you are online/call in right at 9am? Do they "sell out" in seconds?
> 
> So back to my bottom line question -- given the intense competition for January-March at MOC, is it foolish to just try to compete with a single week, or is it really necessary to own two weeks to book in the 13 month window to stand a realistic chance of consistently being able to get a week in that period?


Remember too that not all multi week owners will have been able to grab what they need at the 13 month window, with the up to 50% inventory release, so at the 12 month window you will be competing with some multi week owners as well as single week owners for the at least 50% of inventory held back.
This may not be an issue, just something to be aware of and they may still sell out in seconds so it is always best if you are online/call in at 9am exactly.


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## JIMinNC (Sep 5, 2017)

bazzap said:


> Remember too that not all multi week owners will have been able to grab what they need at the 13 month window, with the up to 50% inventory release, so at the 12 month window you will be competing with some multi week owners as well as single week owners for the at least 50% of inventory held back.
> This may not be an issue, just something to be aware of and they may still sell out in seconds so it is always best if you are online/call in at 9am exactly.



Yes, I realize some multi-week owners might still be looking to book then, but at the 12 month window everyone is equal. They don't have any advantage over a single week owner at that point - first come, first served.

I'm wondering why there's not much feedback from single-week owners. Maybe the demographics of TUG dictate that most TUGgers with an interest in Maui have become multi-week Hawaii owners due to the difficult MOC booking issues. If that is the case, that would not seem to bode well for someone like me considering the wisdom of becoming a single-week Maui owner...


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## JoJo12 (Sep 5, 2017)

As I posted somewhere else, the Ka'anapali Hyatt sales rep at our presentation last month claimed that he was selling the Hyatt fixed weeks to Marriott owners who were frustrated not being able to get Maui reservations.  I didn't believe him at the time.

Now, after following the TUG Marriott thread, I think he may have been telling the truth.  For those Marriott owners who have floating weeks or smaller amounts of DC points and don't follow TUG or know about the resale market, I can see how they would just give up, sell their units and move on to Hyatt.  Assuming of course they had the financial ability to do so! $ $ $.  In the month or so I have been learning about TUG it seems like legacy resale fixed weeks could have the potential to hold more value than the floating weeks, especially once Hyatt is sold out.

Just my 2cents.


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## CalGalTraveler (Sep 5, 2017)

Is it possible to lock-off two EOY units and use 2 1 bedroom units to reserve one year and 2 studios the next year?  (Trying to decide whether to purchase MOC.)


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## hangloose (Sep 5, 2017)

BocaBoy said:


> We have been owners in the new towers at MOC since they opened and frequently have used the 13-month booking window.  However, I recommend that you start with the non-MOC week and make MOC the second in order.  Why?  Because if it is first in your string you are competing with everyone else who wants that week at 13 months and you might not always get it.  If it is second in order, you can reserve the non-MOC week that is easier to reserve 13 months and one week before your desired Maui week and then reserved your desired MOC at the same time (a week before many of the others who also want it).  That strategy has never failed us but we have occasionally been unable to book the MOC week when it is only 13 months out.



I'm new to consecutive week booking at 13 months. Can you elaborate a little?   When you say book non-MOC first, is that because only after that 13 month week is reserved, will it allow me to book the 13 month minus 1 week for MOC?     Or can I ask to book the 13 month minus 1 week at MOC first...and add the 13 month non-MOC second?  

The reason I ask is that it sounds like every minute counts for MOC..even if booking at exactly 9am.   So, I'd love to reserve that week first for the 13 month minus a week...to give the best opportunity at inventory on the preferred check-in dates.   It also saves me from booking non-MOC first for say a Saturday to Saturday checkin....and then find out I cannot get an adjoining Sat checking at MOC (which has more difficult occupancy)...but instead has only Friday/Sunday.  Then I'd have to back and adjust my non-MOC week to match Fri/Sunday....right?

Always learning, but booking for 13 months is new for me...as I don't generally need to do that for my existing Grande Vista weeks....but certainly will in future for HI weeks.


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## taffy19 (Sep 5, 2017)

JoJo12 said:


> As I posted somewhere else, the Ka'anapali Hyatt sales rep at our presentation last month claimed that he was selling the Hyatt fixed weeks to Marriott owners who were frustrated not being able to get Maui reservations.  I didn't believe him at the time.
> 
> Now, after following the TUG Marriott thread, I think he may have been telling the truth.  For those Marriott owners who have floating weeks or smaller amounts of DC points and don't follow TUG or know about the resale market, I can see how they would just give up, sell their units and move on to Hyatt.  Assuming of course they had the financial ability to do so! $ $ $.  In the month or so I have been learning about TUG it seems like legacy resale fixed weeks could have the potential to hold more value than the floating weeks, especially once Hyatt is sold out.
> 
> Just my 2cents.


I met several new owners at the Hyatt who had bought at the Marriott too.  One was a couple who owned a fixed week/unit in the Lahaina tower and bought a fixed week at the Hyatt after it was built so that they could stay two weeks on a row without having to lock off their 2 BR condo and deal with the frustration.

Several sales people came from the Marriott so a few owners bought from their Marriott sales person again but at the Hyatt instead.


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## taterhed (Sep 6, 2017)

CalGalTraveler said:


> Is it possible to lock-off two EOY units and use 2 1 bedroom units to reserve one year and 2 studios the next year?  (Trying to decide whether to purchase MOC.)



Not exactly sure about your question, but no; lock-off reservations must be used in the year they are paid for.  So, you can not 'bank' a week forward or 'borrow' a week from the next years usage.  This is the same for annual or EOY units.  Also, lock-off units can not be used to book 13 month reservations (from the same specific unit-ownership).  Lock-off units from different ownerships (multiple week/resort owners) can be used to establish 13 month bookings.  AFAIK.

So, no I think, is the answer to your question unless I misunderstood....


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## CalGalTraveler (Sep 6, 2017)

taterhed said:


> Not exactly sure about your question, but no; lock-off reservations must be used in the year they are paid for.  So, you can not 'bank' a week forward or 'borrow' a week from the next years usage.  This is the same for annual or EOY units.  Also, lock-off units can not be used to book 13 month reservations (from the same specific unit-ownership).  Lock-off units from different ownerships (multiple week/resort owners) can be used to establish 13 month bookings.  AFAIK.
> 
> So, no I think, is the answer to your question unless I misunderstood....



Thanks @taterhed for clarifying, you understood correctly. It appears that the two EOY MOC units would qualify for 13 month reservations but the lock-offs cannot be banked (unfortunately).


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## SueDonJ (Sep 6, 2017)

CalGalTraveler said:


> Is it possible to lock-off two EOY units and use 2 1 bedroom units to reserve one year and 2 studios the next year?  (Trying to decide whether to purchase MOC.)





taterhed said:


> Not exactly sure about your question, but no; lock-off reservations must be used in the year they are paid for.  So, you can not 'bank' a week forward or 'borrow' a week from the next years usage.  This is the same for annual or EOY units.  Also, lock-off units can not be used to book 13 month reservations (from the same specific unit-ownership).  Lock-off units from different ownerships (multiple week/resort owners) can be used to establish 13 month bookings.  AFAIK.
> 
> So, no I think, is the answer to your question unless I misunderstood....





CalGalTraveler said:


> Thanks @taterhed for clarifying, you understood correctly. The two EOY MOC units would qualify for 13 month reservations but the lock-offs cannot be banked (unfortunately).



You can't bank lock-off components to the next year through an internal MVW mechanism, but you could deposit them to II and request intervals that match to existing reservations, ultimately ending up with (for example) a 1BR owned component and a 1BR II exchange during one year, then a Studio owned component and a Studio II exchange unit during another.

It'd require you to watch your dates carefully for reserving, depositing and requesting, but it could be done.

***
I might be confused by what you're saying about EOY Weeks and the 13-mos Reservation Window but just in case ...

If you have two EOY lock-off Weeks with usage in the same year, the 13-mos window can be used if you book both of those Weeks, or lock-off components from both of them, consecutively or concurrently.  But if you have two EOY lock-off Weeks with one having even-year usage and the other odd, you can't use the 13-mos window to book the individual lock-off components of each in their designated use years.


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## CalGalTraveler (Sep 6, 2017)

SueDonJ said:


> You can't bank lock-off components to the next year through an internal MVW mechanism, but you could deposit them to II and request intervals that match to existing reservations, ultimately ending up with (for example) a 1BR owned component and a 1BR II exchange during one year, then a Studio owned component and a Studio II exchange unit during another.
> 
> It'd require you to watch your dates carefully for reserving, depositing and requesting, but it could be done.
> 
> ...



Thanks @SueDonJ.  Yes, I was referring to owning 2 EOY in the same year. So it sounds like one could get priority booking in year one. How difficult would it be to get an II match to MOC oceanfront for year 2?  Does the fact that you have 2 studio units earn any priority for booking? or would one be most likely in an Island view exchange in year 2?


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## JIMinNC (Sep 11, 2017)

Thanks to everyone for all of the input on my original question. I've been busy watching Irma the last few days and keeping track of our daughter who was riding out the storm in her dorm at University of Florida, so I've been a little slow to say thanks.

After re-reading the thread a couple times, I'm considerably less enthusiastic about the prospect of becoming a single-week MOC owner and taking on the booking frustrations. Buying a second week at somewhere like Waiohai seems like the best way to maximize the booking odds, but I'm not really enthusiastic about needing to buy a second week just to be able to effectively use the Maui week. We would almost always stay in Hawaii for two weeks, but while we would definitely want to go to Maui Ocean Club every trip (we love Kaanapali, the beach walk, and the whole vibe there), we would prefer to alternate the second week between the other islands from trip-to-trip.

Not sure what we're going to do. There are a few attractive listings out there for EOY MOC weeks right now, but none of the purchase strategies seem to work for us.

- DC Points fit our needs the best and would be the simplest way to go, but for a place like Maui where we would go on a regular basis, booking each time with points is not very cost effective.
- Buying an EOY week on Maui would be cost effective, but if we have to buy a second week we don't really want/need just to effectively book that Maui week, that option doesn't really work either.
- A hybrid bundle built around a Maui week checks most of our boxes by providing us an efficient week to use plus the flexibility of points for switching things up, but I'm not quite ready to spend $30K+ on this Maui thing.

So, I guess I'm back to the drawing board...


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## JoJo12 (Sep 12, 2017)

Jim,

I have been following your quandary and very complete posts about all the options.  What we have decided to do is buy a legacy fixed week in one of the new MOC towers and totally eliminate the booking uncertainty.  The extra cost is worth it for us.  Maybe they will even have a stable value if MOC floating weeks become even more difficult to book!

Over the years I have done all the tricks of miles and points, but now I don't want the hassle of knowing if I can go where and when I want to go since it will be with grandkids.

Pam


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## csodjd (Sep 12, 2017)

JoJo12 said:


> Jim,
> 
> I have been following your quandary and very complete posts about all the options.  What we have decided to do is buy a legacy fixed week in one of the new MOC towers and totally eliminate the booking uncertainty.  The extra cost is worth it for us.  Maybe they will even have a stable value if MOC floating weeks become even more difficult to book!
> 
> ...


If you own a floating week, and a fixed week, does that qualify you for the 13 month window for booking the floating week if you were to book it concurrently or consecutively with the fixed week?


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## TXTortoise (Sep 12, 2017)

csodjd said:


> If you own a floating week, and a fixed week, does that qualify you for the 13 month window for booking the floating week if you were to book it concurrently or consecutively with the fixed week?



Yes, according to the one Marriott Rep I spoke to.


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## BocaBoy (Sep 12, 2017)

hangloose said:


> I'm new to consecutive week booking at 13 months. Can you elaborate a little?   When you say book non-MOC first, *is that because only after that 13 month week is reserved, will it allow me to book the 13 month minus 1 week for MOC? *    Or can I ask to book the 13 month minus 1 week at MOC first...and add the 13 month non-MOC second?
> 
> The reason I ask is that it sounds like every minute counts for MOC..even if booking at exactly 9am.   So, I'd love to reserve that week first for the 13 month minus a week...to give the best opportunity at inventory on the preferred check-in dates.   It also saves me from booking non-MOC first for say a Saturday to Saturday checkin....and then find out I cannot get an adjoining Sat checking at MOC (which has more difficult occupancy)...but instead has only Friday/Sunday.  Then I'd have to back and adjust my non-MOC week to match Fri/Sunday....right?


You are correct, the first reservation in the string must not be farther out than 13 months.  But your matching up of check-in dates should not be an issue because you would reserve the whole string in one call at 13 months ahead of the first check-in date of the string.


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## GregT (Sep 13, 2017)

csodjd said:


> If you own a floating week, and a fixed week, does that qualify you for the 13 month window for booking the floating week if you were to book it concurrently or consecutively with the fixed week?



Yes it does -- I have fixed MOC weeks (22 - 25) and have been booking float weeks for Week 26 and 27 and using 13 months from the very first Week 22.  So, in this application, Ko Olina Week 26 has become something like a fixed week for me, and I book it 14 months in advance.

Best,

Greg


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## csodjd (Sep 13, 2017)

Clever. Costly because of the increased cost of fixed weeks, but it's a door to getting a 3rd or 4th "fixed" week at the cost of a floating week, since at 13.5 or 14 months you're pretty well certain to get what you want. Also explains why inventory, even at 13 mo, can be reduced.


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## Aztraveler (Sep 13, 2017)

We own two weeks at MOC and usually split our 2 bedroom and spend two weeks in the Spring and two in the Fall.  In the past, I have had little problem obtaining Spring reservations at the 52 week release and did have some issues with the 13 month time period when we stayed longer in the Spring.  The fall has always been easy.  The last three years have been difficult for Spring reservations.  I always used the internet at the release time 52 weeks in advance.  Here is a summary of my experiences:

Spring 2016 Reservation -- Could not obtain the Saturday check-in we desired, but a few weeks later those dates became available and we made the change.
Spring 2017 Reservation -- The on-line reservation system crashed on the day to make reservations.  I could not get through on the phone until two hours later.  Nothing was available for our request.  We are flexible and waited a week and tried again.  System crashed again, but on the phone simultaneously and got the first week for a Friday check-in.  The second week, for our lock-off, same issue, but able to book a Sunday check-in.  Decided to stay in Paia for the night between reservations.  Everyone was having issues with the on-line system during this period.  I think they were "improving" the system.
Spring 2018 Reservation -- All going well with the on-line system, clicked "Confirm", got response "No Availability".  On phone at same time, agent was less than helpful and stated the system give multiple users the same time and whoever hits "Confirm" first gets it.  Seems like a system issue to me, but who am I to judge.  Agent basically told me "tough luck".  On the way, to the airport for the first leg of our journey called again and was able to speak with an agent who used a 13-month strategy to get us booked for the two weeks on a Sunday arrival.  Later had to rearrange some things he did for us, but it all worked out.
All these were done at the 52 week mark.  We are flexible and everything worked out and we will enjoy MOC.  For the ten years before the 2016 Reservation, we had absolutely no issues at 52 weeks.  You can make your judgments, regarding our recent experience.  We are legacy owners and I attribute these issues to the DC program.  At the same time, when discussing this with MOC management, they tell me MOC has the least DC reservations available because most owners use their weeks.  We will see what the future holds.

Good luck with your decision.  In parting, all I have to add is that MOC and Maui are fabulous!  We feel lucky to be there whenever.


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## Dean (Sep 13, 2017)

csodjd said:


> Clever. Costly because of the increased cost of fixed weeks, but it's a door to getting a 3rd or 4th "fixed" week at the cost of a floating week, since at 13.5 or 14 months you're pretty well certain to get what you want. Also explains why inventory, even at 13 mo, can be reduced.


One can buy a week (or 2) elsewhere to rent out or use for trades to have the same effect for a LOT less both up front and yearly.  If you buy one that's a lockoff AND has a Thursday check in, you're actually ahead of the situation described.


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## JoJo12 (Sep 13, 2017)

Dean

Where would you suggest those extra weeks be at?


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## Dean (Sep 14, 2017)

JoJo12 said:


> Dean
> 
> Where would you suggest those extra weeks be at?


I think it depends, it's essentially the same question as a trading unit in general.  IMO the best option depends a little based on the situation but I think there are 2 methods that fit many people.  One is to just buy something that's a good trading options, has a Thursday start, somewhat reasonable fees and lockoff's.  Willow Ridge, Grande Vista and Harbour Club come to mind but there may be others.  The other is to try to compromise to something that you will actually use and fits most of those criteria, maybe something like Ocean Pointe.


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## TXTortoise (Feb 7, 2018)

Dean, if you knew you were going to reserve this Thursday start date week in February and then most likely rent it, any suggestions on which to use? 

Then again, maybe one of these is a candidate for a hybrid knowing you’ll convert it to points. I know MGV keeps coming up in lots of points and rent threads, particularly the 3BR platinum. 

Starting look like another spreadsheet exercise.


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## Dean (Feb 7, 2018)

TXTortoise said:


> Dean, if you knew you were going to reserve this Thursday start date week in February and then most likely rent it, any suggestions on which to use?
> 
> Then again, maybe one of these is a candidate for a hybrid knowing you’ll convert it to points. I know MGV keeps coming up in lots of points and rent threads, particularly the 3BR platinum.
> 
> Starting look like another spreadsheet exercise.


To be honest, I haven't thought about it in exactly those terms.  So you'd want something with a Thursday start as the lead, something Gold or Platinum but not overly expensive either up front or dues, lockoff and something rentable as well as not mostly or all in the Trust.  That likely only leaves Grande Vista and Harbour Lakes unless I'm missing somewhere.  There are a number that hit most of those but not all points including CA desert, Beach Place, Ocean Pointe, Ko Olina, Doral, Legend's Edge and Aruba. If you could exchange or use part of the time, that would be a plus or if you could enroll to take points that might alter options. Lockoff likely wouldn't matter as much for a rental but it would rob you of starting a week earlier.  Interesting set of restrictions.  What were you thinking?


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## TXTortoise (Feb 7, 2018)

Nothing at the moment, but still trying to align Maui weeks and may start looking at various other alternatives when we get back home this weekend from there. 

You just got me thinking.


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## Dean (Feb 7, 2018)

TXTortoise said:


> Nothing at the moment, but still trying to align Maui weeks and may start looking at various other alternatives when we get back home this weekend from there.
> 
> You just got me thinking.


It is easier when you are doing Spring to Fall compared to Jan to April as there are a few other options.  Most still aren't Thursday start AND lockoff but a couple of others are.  Another alternative is to come up with an additional option you'll use fairly routinely.  That way even if it's a little more expensive up front and yearly, you get value for the expense like Aruba, Singer Island or Palm Desert for example.  Regardless there often isn't a perfect alternative for exchanging or to play the 13 month reservation window when looking at trade power, price and the like.  If you can do a lot of flex change options you might consider a Willow Ridge option but I'd still look for the 2 applicable Orlando properties over that for that time.  Some of the other trading options like Williamsburg and LV don't have Thursday start from what I understand.


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## dsafety (Feb 7, 2018)

My answer may be a little off point but I will post it anyway. I own an annual 1br MOC unit. Quite frankly, I seldom stay there. I like to cook and not having a kitchen makes things challenging. I have become quite the BBQ chef to compensate. 

When we go to Maui, we almost always trade into one of the towers. We have quite a bit of flexibility with the timing of our vacations so this has worked for us most of the time. One time we got a mountain view unit in the Napili tower during a stormy period. We could not even open the doors to the deck without having everything inside the unit blown away. Every other time we have had excellent units. If you have to have a specific date, your experience may be different.


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