# Side trip to Cuba from Caymans...has anyone done?



## NTHC (Aug 20, 2008)

Can we talk about this here???

As the result of a great trip to the Caymans this year, our kids would like to go back for spring break 2009.  Our son has expressed an interest in one of the 3 night trips to Cuba that are advertised while in the Caymans.  Has anyone done one of these?  

We are thinking maybe a week again at the Morritts and then adding this on at the end.

I find it a bit strange that we can attend an olympics in a communist country, but we can't visit another as a US citizen.

Is it safe?

Any thoughts would be great as it is now time to start planning.

Thanks,
Cindy


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## DeniseM (Aug 20, 2008)

i think it's probably safe - but it's not legal, so the concern is getting caught by the us govt. and the potential for a heavy fine - thousands of dollars, and then you would probably get special treatment from airport security forever!

US Dept. of State web page - Cuba

New York Times Article
_"One way that American officials catch offenders is by watching for tourists who arrive in the Bahamas or Canada on flights from Cuba and then proceed directly to a connecting flight to the United States. A Brooklyn woman who was recently threatened with a fine said that she was caught that way. The woman, who insisted on anonymity, said that a United States Customs agent in Montreal had stopped her, said he knew she had been to Cuba and took down her name and address.

Weeks later, she got a letter from the Office of Foreign Assets Control requesting information about how much money she had spent in Cuba, which is usually the prelude to a fine. The Center for Constitutional Rights is handling her case.

Ms. Chang said that although OFAC typically assesses travelers with a $7,500 fine, it often accepts a payment of between $700 and $2,500. "_


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## Beaglemom3 (Aug 20, 2008)

........... and now a word from the U.S. Treasury Dept..................

This is very important. It spells out all the sanctions.

http://www.treas.gov/offices/enforcement/ofac/programs/cuba/cuba.pdf


I was supposed to go a few years back with a medical group, madre.org, but we were not allowed by the State Dept. If we had gone ahead, we were told, off the record, that beyond fining, other pressures might come to bear, like the IRS, etc. It's not that it's a communist country, it's just that we have no diplomatic relations with it.

Better to obey the law on this one, IMVHO. I don't agree with it, but things may change soon.


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## caribbeansun (Aug 21, 2008)

Canadians vacation in Cuba all the time although it's not to the standards of what you'll find in Grand Cayman so yes it's safe (unless you meant safe from sanctions/punitive measures on you from your government).

As I understand it they will stamp a separate unattached page for your passport to accommodate US travelers with concerns over the US government being a pain.  There are daily flights to Cuba via   Cayman Airways .

It's bizarre that a country that supposedly stands for freedom can state that you can't go somewhere in the world and if you do you'll be punished 

As an alternative you may wish to consider a day or overnight trip to either Cayman Brac or Little Cayman which would give you some variety without the politic issues.


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## Judy (Aug 21, 2008)

I would think that your son is young enough to wait for his visit to Cuba until the US government sanctions are lifted.  It probably isn't worth the risk for you to take him at this point.
For those of us who have been waiting since 1961 to visit Cuba, the situation is different.  I'm wondering if I'll live long enough to make my trip legally.


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## Beaglemom3 (Aug 21, 2008)

Perhaps a larger question here or dilema..............

_No judgement call here in asking this,_ but would this be confusing or conflicting to your son, that is, in your willfull breaking the law of the land (such that it is?). 

I ask this as I am in the process of interviewing for a position with the DOJ (Dept of Justice) and was asked if I would obey all laws or would I consider breaking a seemingless harmless one and if no one was injured in the action ? (I asked them to be more specific ). I did want to go on the trip to Cuba, but will wait until our group is allowed in or diplomatic relations are restored and the travel ban lifted.

No challenge intended, just curious.


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## CatLovers (Aug 21, 2008)

*Lots of Americans visit Cuba right now!*

As caribbeansun already mentioned, Canadians vacation all the time in Cuba, and I have met MANY Americans while there.  Essentially, if you wanted to go, it's as simple as travelling from a country other than the US (so Canada, Mexico, or in your case, Cayman) and asking the Cuban immigration officials to simply not stamp your passport.  That's it!

Whether or not you are comfortable with the "ethics" of breaking US laws is a decision you will have to make.

You will find that you will be welcomed as warmly by local Cubans as if you were Canadian or another nationality.  We have always found it very interesting that Cubans are very aware that citizens of a country do not necessarily reflect their country's political policies.  One of the most common responses I heard when I asked how Cubans felt about Americans visiting their country was "Our issue is with politicians, not everyday people.  We like having as many people as possible visit our country and boost our economy."  A very adult and logical response ... I thought.


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## tombo (Aug 21, 2008)

I wouldn't go to Cuba for any reason as long as the US has a ban on travel to that country. What if you were to get arrested on a trumped up charge. What if you needed medical assistance (your health insurance won't pay in Cuba). In any other country you ask for a U S diplomat from our local Embassy who can come to your rescue. In a country where we have no diplomatic relations, you are on your own. They keep their own people in jail for decades, why would you think they would treat an American citizen better than their own citizen?

I was in Cozumel when an American woman got attacked by a chained up monkey at the Naked Turtle Bar. She needed stitches and told the owner that he should have those monkeys locked in a cage, and because of his negligence that he would be paying for her medical expenses. He told her that he wasn't going to pay her medical bills, she shouldn't have gotten so close to the monkey.. She informed him that her brother was a lawyer and she would sue him. He responded, "You are in Mexico. Your brother isn't a lawyer here. I won't pay you a penny. Have a good day." In a foreign land we don't have the rights we do in the US, no matter how friendly it seems to tourists.


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## Sunterra (Aug 21, 2008)

tombo said:


> I wouldn't go to Cuba for any reason as long as the US has a ban on travel to that country. What if you were to get arrested on a trumped up charge. What if you needed medical assistance (your health insurance won't pay in Cuba). In any other country you ask for a U S diplomat from our local Embassy who can come to your rescue. In a country where we have no diplomatic relations, you are on your own. They keep their own people in jail for decades, why would you think they would treat an American citizen better than their own citizen?
> 
> I was in Cozumel when an American woman got attacked by a chained up monkey at the Naked Turtle Bar. She needed stitches and told the owner that he should have those monkeys locked in a cage, and because of his negligence that he would be paying for her medical expenses. He told her that he wasn't going to pay her medical bills, she shouldn't have gotten so close to the monkey.. She informed him that her brother was a lawyer and she would sue him. He responded, "You are in Mexico. Your brother isn't a lawyer here. I won't pay you a penny. Have a good day." In a foreign land we don't have the rights we do in the US, no matter how friendly it seems to tourists.


The right to be a stupid American, let's sue!


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## Steamboat Bill (Aug 21, 2008)

tombo said:


> I was in Cozumel when an American woman got attacked by a chained up monkey at the Naked Turtle Bar.



That somehow does not surprise me, considering that location.



Sunterra said:


> The right to be a stupid American, let's sue!



How does getting attacked by monkey and wanting justice define someone as "stupid"?


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## vacationhopeful (Aug 21, 2008)

Heard the same "sue the Mexican hotel when I get back to Tampa" type comment in the van back to the Cancun airport 17+ years ago.  Of the 9+ people in the van, only the driver, my BF and I had those sly grins and shaking heads while all the others were verbally and head nodding agreeing.

As BF and I were first on the van, Sueing Sue and BF were picked up at different hotel than the rest of the cab.  Scary, that the Mexican national cab driver knew more about the law than 75% of the rich Americans in his cab.  And, some Tampa lawyer got to bill the civics class dropout several hundreds dollars to research or write a threatening letter.:hysterical:


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## Htoo0 (Aug 22, 2008)

Steamboat Bill said:


> How does getting attacked by monkey and wanting justice define someone as "stupid"?



The monkey was chained and she got too close. Maybe it was accidental but I'm guessing she knew it was there. Then she wants to sue for her own negligence. Some would consider that "stupid". (Kind of like someone using a toaster in a bathtub full of water or sticking a metal object inside while it's plugged in and then wanting to sue the manufacturer because there's not a large warning on it not to do such a thing.)


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## silverfox82 (Aug 22, 2008)

I also would love to travel to cuba but am not willing to break the law to do so, although the embargo seems to be just plain vindictive at this point. My daughter is half cuban and has legally visited cuba with her church group although they had to jump through hoops from both governments to get permission. I suggest that writing your elected officials about your desire to have, or not have, the travel restrictions lifted might have some impact. I am  curious about what our government would give as reasons for the travel ban other than the strong voting block of expat cubans in this country. Hopefully we will get to add cuba to our list of caribbean islands visited, it would make an even 30 for me.


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## caribbeansun (Aug 22, 2008)

You make very good points about issues that could occur should you need assistance in a country with no diplomatic ties although I understand that medical services are actually considerably cheaper in Cuba than in the US but that was based on a 60 Minutes program so hard to say if that was "real" or not.

Of course I'm not convinced those ties really help a whole lot - I'm thinking of Canadians that have been assaulted and worse in Mexico of late - it's another country and diplomatic ties mean nothing - basically you have to find a way home and don't expect any satisfaction from the local authorities.  If injured I'd do everything that I or those traveling with me could do to get home to Canada for treatment (that includes the US).



tombo said:


> I wouldn't go to Cuba for any reason as long as the US has a ban on travel to that country. What if you were to get arrested on a trumped up charge. What if you needed medical assistance (your health insurance won't pay in Cuba). In any other country you ask for a U S diplomat from our local Embassy who can come to your rescue. In a country where we have no diplomatic relations, you are on your own. They keep their own people in jail for decades, why would you think they would treat an American citizen better than their own citizen?


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## Steamboat Bill (Aug 22, 2008)

Htoo0 said:


> The monkey was chained and she got too close. Maybe it was accidental but I'm guessing she knew it was there. Then she wants to sue for her own negligence. Some would consider that "stupid".



This explanation makes no sense at all....so now visitors at foreign countries must "know" that all animals on public sidewalks or common areas are chained and know how long the chain is and what the proper length of safety should be....I don;t care for the current US legal system (especially greedy lawyers) and the millions of frivolous lawsuits, but this is not frivolous. 

Geeze, the lady was attacked by a monkey and has no recourse...how would you feel if your kid was bitten buy a neighbors dog...I am sure you would chew out the neighbor or sue and not yell at your kid for getting too close to the dog.


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## Htoo0 (Aug 23, 2008)

Steamboat Bill said:


> This explanation makes no sense at all....so now visitors at foreign countries must "know" that all animals on public sidewalks or common areas are chained and know how long the chain is and what the proper length of safety should be....I don;t care for the current US legal system (especially greedy lawyers) and the millions of frivolous lawsuits, but this is not frivolous.
> 
> Geeze, the lady was attacked by a monkey and has no recourse...how would you feel if your kid was bitten buy a neighbors dog...I am sure you would chew out the neighbor or sue and not yell at your kid for getting too close to the dog.



I pretty much assume any animal I'm not familiar with may be dangerous. Thus I ask the owner before I get too close. If a neighbor had a pit bull chained in his yard, believe me, I would advise children not to attempt petting it. BTW, I see people sticking their hand inside the cages of large parrots who then seem surprised when the parrot tries to take their fingers off. At a famous landmark in Cayman there is one of those parrots kept free with clipped wings. They have signs warning it will bite but people still attempt to have their photos taken next to it or try to touch it. It often is not too tolerant of such antics however. Apparently no one has had a successful lawsuit however because the last time I knew, it was still there.   Feel free to rebut but I'm done- wasn't trying to start an argument, just offering a reason some might think suing would be stupid.


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## Beaglemom3 (Aug 23, 2008)

silverfox82 said:


> I also would love to travel to cuba but am not willing to break the law to do so, although the embargo seems to be just plain vindictive at this point. My daughter is half cuban and has legally visited cuba with her church group although they had to jump through hoops from both governments to get permission. I suggest that writing your elected officials about your desire to have, or not have, the travel restrictions lifted might have some impact. I am  curious about what our government would give as reasons for the travel ban other than the strong voting block of expat cubans in this country. Hopefully we will get to add cuba to our list of caribbean islands visited, it would make an even 30 for me.



Very well said.


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