# Current pricing passing Rofr?



## ching (Apr 10, 2011)

Hi there, 

We are currently waiting on whether Hilton will exercise ROFR on a Hawaii HGVC timeshare.  Are there people that have recently bought either in Hawaii, Orlando or LV that can share some prices that have Hilton has passed on ROFR?

Thanks


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## GregT (Apr 11, 2011)

There have been a number of properties that Hilton has exercised ROFR upon recently -- even some Silver/Gold weeks that people did not think would be subject to ROFR.

Where is your HGVC Hawaii purchase?  If it's HHV, then the speculation is that is an active property for ROFR.   If it's Bay Club, that's an affiliate and HGVC wouldn't have ROFR.  If its Kohala Suites or Kings Land....depends on the pricing.

Any additional information you can share with us?

Thanks!

Greg


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## ching (Apr 11, 2011)

I am crossing my fingers.  The sale price was $12000 for 8400 points, Kohala Suites.  It's been almost 2 weeks.  Our sales agent said it might be a 50/50 chance that it would pass.  Just anxious and was wondering what sales figures have pass ROFR recently, even if they are not Hawaiian properties.


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## kool_kat (Apr 12, 2011)

I just heard from my friend yesterday that her 5,000 point EOY at International Drive just passed ROFR at $810.00  I wasn't sure if this would pass with the latest ROFR being exercised by Hilton, but I think the reason it did was because it couldn't be used until 2013.  She was thrilled to get it that cheap since she won't need the extra points for a while.


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## 7SeasLover (Apr 12, 2011)

Gosh... am I correct in saying that I got taken for buying my 5000 points for $28k or whatever it was because I bought from the HGVC direct? Boy, do I feel dumb.  

I guess for my peace of mind, I did the right thing, because it was a first time TimeShare for me. Been wanting one since forever and I finally did it. Well, now that I am reading, I guess I'll wise up. Maybe I can pick up another 5000 points for much much less down the road.


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## AwayWeGo (Apr 12, 2011)

*You Typed A Mouthful.*




7SeasLover said:


> Gosh... am I correct in saying that I got taken for buying my 5000 points for $28k or whatever it was because I bought from the HGVC direct?


That's about the size of it. 

Nothing that the timeshare companies sell at full freight is worth the money -- and that goes for HGVC right along with all the rest. 

Buy timeshares resale.  Save thousands of dollars on exactly the same thing, or the equivalent, or something even better. 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


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## rgong (Apr 12, 2011)

ching said:


> I am crossing my fingers.  The sale price was $12000 for 8400 points, Kohala Suites.  It's been almost 2 weeks.  Our sales agent said it might be a 50/50 chance that it would pass.  Just anxious and was wondering what sales figures have pass ROFR recently, even if they are not Hawaiian properties.



One of the highly recommended HGVC realtors on this board told me about a month ago that Hilton was exercising ROFR on annual 5000 pt 2br gold packages at $4K and that it would take $4.5K - $5K to pass. One owner posted on another thread that he thought it would take $11.5 - $12K to get 7000 pt packages past ROFR. Also the levels to pass ROFR seem to vary, possibly depending on the point of the fiscal year (pure speculation here). Hilton's fiscal year begins Jan. 1, and they have a substantial war chest for buying back properties this year. It might relax a bit towards the end of the year when they've spent their budget or are close to it and need to be more selective; there are posts from the latter part of last year by folks getting relative bargains on gold and platinum packages past Hilton. And not surprisingly, location is a factor - I'd expect Hilton to be more aggressive in buying back Hawaii properties as well as LV Strip and Parc Soleil where there are still active developer sales. Still, I hope you get your purchase past Hilton, and if you do, let us know - good luck!


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## 7SeasLover (Apr 12, 2011)

From the sound of things, folks don't like ROFR. Why not? Isn't it the same as selling? Instead of to a private buyer, it's sold to HGVC ??? Am I missing something here?


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## AwayWeGo (Apr 12, 2011)

*R. O. F. R. = R. O. F. L.*




7SeasLover said:


> From the sound of things, folks don't like ROFR. Why not? Isn't it the same as selling? Instead of to a private buyer, it's sold to HGVC ??? Am I missing something here?


Click here for ROFR. 

Just ask yourself, how would you like it if you were all set to buy somebody's timeshare at a price you & the seller agreed upon, only to have some ROFR timeshare company buy the timeshare right out from under you because of ROFR ? 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


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## rgong (Apr 12, 2011)

7SeasLover said:


> From the sound of things, folks don't like ROFR. Why not? Isn't it the same as selling? Instead of to a private buyer, it's sold to HGVC ??? Am I missing something here?



Depends on your point of view. 

If you're selling a TS, and you make a sale to a buyer, you don't care if Hilton/Marriott/Disney/XYZCorp exercises their Right Of First Refusal (ROFR) and steps in and buys back the TS. You've sold it, that's all you care.

HOWEVER, if you're the buyer (resale), you indeed hope that XYZCorp waives ROFR ... because dang it, you finally found the TS you wanted at an acceptable price, only to have it snatched away from you by XYZCorp because they have the first right to buy back the TS at exactly the same price.  If they exercise that right... then you as the buyer are back to square one.

Btw, OP is a buyer, and is understandably nervous.


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## phil1ben (Apr 12, 2011)

ROFR is somewhat like betting on a horse. Once the bet is made you want the odds to go up because your choice is made. When buying resale you do not want Hilton to exercise ROFR because you believe you bought something at a fair/good price and want to own it. However, once you own a unit Hilton's use of ROFR is favorable because it helps keep resale values up and (if exercised) tends to prevent firesale prices. Note my use of the words "helps" and "tends". 

An argument could be made that ROFR discourages offers and deflates pricing. In the commercial real estate market I would agree. In the timeshare market I do not believe it is a real deterrent to pricing and does not effect whether someone will make an offer at a prime resort that they want. You will often see a note on this Board for people trying to determine which HGVC affiliates do not have ROFR so that they can in fact make lowball offers.

I have been watching this issue for about 8 months and finally bought in February after ROFR was exercised twice on units I had under contract. The exercise price helped me determine what was a fair/good price for the unit I wanted. In other words I raised my bid on successive contracts by $500.00 until they waived. Having said that you need to spend the time and effort to "play the game" if you want to get a fair/good price.


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## yumdrey (Apr 12, 2011)

I belive ROFR is NOT good thing for buyers, but doesn't matter for sellers.
At this moment, I am in closing (transfer) process for my 5000 points package, and also for a 7000 points package.
Today, I got an answer that Hilton exercised for 7000 points packages which had a sale price for $12,000.


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## Australia22! (Apr 13, 2011)

7SeasLover said:


> Gosh... am I correct in saying that I got taken for buying my 5000 points for $28k or whatever it was because I bought from the HGVC direct? Boy, do I feel dumb.
> 
> I guess for my peace of mind, I did the right thing, because it was a first time TimeShare for me. Been wanting one since forever and I finally did it. Well, now that I am reading, I guess I'll wise up. Maybe I can pick up another 5000 points for much much less down the road.



Ginny,

We knew about the Tug website BEFORE we purchased our HGVC points directly from Hilton in 2010 and also 2011; however, we wanted to reach Elite status and buying from Hilton is the only way to achieve that (as far as we know).  After traveling with Elite Plus members in the past and staying at several different HGVC properties, we were sold on HGVC.  We purchased our first 3,400 HGVC points from a friend's daughter and after that we went to our first sales presentation.  Hilton offered us the amount our friend had originally paid on an upgrade.  Of course, we knew that we wanted to upgrade, and decided to buy through HGVC even though we knew we could purchase the same points on the after market for much less.  After our second upgrade, we obtained Elite status and became permanent gold Hilton Honors members (14,000 points).  Being permanent gold gives us benefits when we travel in hotels, such as free breakfast and upgrades to larger rooms (depending on the hotel and availability).  We received an upgrade at the Hilton in Niagara Falls that was a beautiful, large, two room suite.  Now that we are at the Elite level however, we will probably purchase additional points on the after market because we don't aspire to own 28,000 timeshare points (Elite Plus) since the benefits don't seem to be that much different.  That said, our friends own 28,000 points and they can book a studio in Las Vegas and receive an automatic upgrade at check-in to a one bedroom unit.

Being a CPA, I also believe that we could have paid less for our points by purchasing on the after market, but we are enjoying every minute of being Elite members with HGVC and have no regrets whatsoever.  Hope you enjoy your HGVC travels as much as we have enjoyed ours and that you are able to use the Tug website to help you make the best informed decisions in the future.


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## 7SeasLover (Apr 13, 2011)

Thank you everyone for the explanations of ROFR as well as buying directly from HGVC. I knew when we went to Las Vegas for the presentation that I intended to buy if the price was right. It was right for me in that it fit my pocketbook. 

Now that I understand ROFR, I suspect that had I tried to buy my first TS and had the rug pulled out of me on the private market, I might have given up. 

I'm happy that I have my 5000 points and that it's affordable. I don't like all the nickel and diming by charging to make a reservation (online or on the phone), or for sending 2011 points into 2012, and whatever else they charge for, but c'est la vie.

I suspect I'll be much happier once I actually book something and go! For now, I'm a happy duck (as I sit here listening to Jerry Butler - now if that doesn't age me I dunno what does!)  :rofl:


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## Talent312 (Apr 13, 2011)

Some folk here bought direct 'cuz they didn't know about the resale market, others 'cuz they wanted the points to count for elite status, and some 'cuz they felt there was value in the safety and ease of buying direct vs. the vagaries and uncertainty of a private-sale. 

What's important is not the motive or the price paid, but whether you manage to learn how to use and enjoy your TS, for therein is the real value, and that you've stumbled upon TUG (like many of us).


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## Andythefox (Apr 14, 2011)

I purchased and closed on 5000 Gold points in November (Orlando Seaworld). I paid $2800 and lucky for me, Hilton waived their ROFR. The previous owners did not use their 2010 points, so I started this year with 10,000 points to spend instead of the 5000 I was originally expecting (Of course, I had to pay $69 to carry over the points to this year). If it were not for this forum (where I lurked for months before gaining enough confidence to pull the trigger on ebay) I might have paid way too much for what I needed.


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## KathyA (Apr 14, 2011)

phil1ben said:


> ROFR is somewhat like betting on a horse. Once the bet is made you want the odds to go up because your choice is made. When buying resale you do not want Hilton to exercise ROFR because you believe you bought something at a fair/good price and want to own it. However, once you own a unit Hilton's use of ROFR is favorable because it helps keep resale values up and (if exercised) tends to prevent firesale prices. Note my use of the words "helps" and "tends".
> 
> An argument could be made that ROFR discourages offers and deflates pricing. In the commercial real estate market I would agree. In the timeshare market I do not believe it is a real deterrent to pricing and does not effect whether someone will make an offer at a prime resort that they want. You will often see a note on this Board for people trying to determine which HGVC affiliates do not have ROFR so that they can in fact make lowball offers.I have been watching this issue for about 8 months and finally bought in February after ROFR was exercised twice on units I had under contract. The exercise price helped me determine what was a fair/good price for the unit I wanted. In other words I raised my bid on successive contracts by $500.00 until they waived. Having said that you need to spend the time and effort to "play the game" if you want to get a fair/good price.


I disagree.  I think ROFR protects owners.  Without it, prices would deteriorate to very lowball offers and sellers would have no alternative if they wanted to sell.  With ROFR, the sellers get the money for what they were willing to sell for, and the offers aren't totally lowball.

As others have pointed out, the ROFR is definitely bad if you are the buyer.


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## jrc (Apr 15, 2011)

7SeasLover said:


> Gosh... am I correct in saying that I got taken for buying my 5000 points for $28k or whatever it was because I bought from the HGVC direct? Boy, do I feel dumb.
> 
> I guess for my peace of mind, I did the right thing, because it was a first time TimeShare for me. Been wanting one since forever and I finally did it. Well, now that I am reading, I guess I'll wise up. Maybe I can pick up another 5000 points for much much less down the road.



For what it's worth, If I were getting taken to the cleaners in a TS purchase, I'd want it to be in the HGVC system.


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## Talent312 (Apr 16, 2011)

KathyA said:


> I think ROFR protects owners.  Without it, prices would deteriorate to very lowball offers... sellers get the money for what they were willing to sell for, and the offers aren't totally lowball.... ROFR is definitely bad if you are the buyer.



The ROFR debate has been a recurring theme on TUG since ther beginning of time... or at least since before I started lurking + posting. I'll just say:

Its certainly a benefit to Hilton, who can buy-back TS's at the resale price, resell the same units _as if new_ for thousands more, and make a tidy little profit without the expense of building anything. The $$ they're devoting to ROFR could instead be using to open resorts in new lcations, but its far more profitable to recycle old ones.

As for the sellers, it helps those who are smart enuff to make a sale near or above HGVC's cut-off, but I'd hazard to guess that many have no idea where that is and thus, low-ball themselves, putting even more $$ in HGVC's pocket.
... _not that there's anything wrong with the profit motive in a free-market system._


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## rjp123 (Apr 18, 2011)

Talent312 said:


> Some folk here bought direct 'cuz they didn't know about the resale market, others 'cuz they wanted the points to count for elite status, and some 'cuz they felt there was value in the safety and ease of buying direct vs. the vagaries and uncertainty of a private-sale.



Someone had to buy direct at some point. 

I find this board to often be hard on people who bought direct.

*To those who bought direct:*  THANK YOU!  Without you there would be no re-sale market.


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## ching (May 25, 2011)

Hi, just an update to our recent purchase.  We finally closed with a 8400 pt package at Waikoloa Suites for $12,000.  MF $1300.

We are very happy and thankful to The immense amount of information and helpful tuggers on this site.  With the help of Judi K, we have found our ideal location for almost 70% off retail.  We originally signed for $40 K for a 9300 pt package in January and rescinded immediately after we found this site.

THank you all!


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## Emi (May 25, 2011)

*Congratulations*

Hello

Congratulations on your great purchase. I am the current President of the Board at Kohala Suites. If there is any questions I can answer for you regarding the property , please do not hesitate to ask.

Amy


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## pianodinosaur (May 25, 2011)

7SeasLover said:


> Gosh... am I correct in saying that I got taken for buying my 5000 points for $28k or whatever it was because I bought from the HGVC direct? Boy, do I feel dumb.
> 
> I guess for my peace of mind, I did the right thing, because it was a first time TimeShare for me. Been wanting one since forever and I finally did it. Well, now that I am reading, I guess I'll wise up. Maybe I can pick up another 5000 points for much much less down the road.



Welcome to the club.


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## hurnik (May 25, 2011)

I was able to get my 7000 points at the LV Strip for $9500


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## letsgobobby (May 26, 2011)

9600 at HHV for $18,000 - think it would pass ROFR?


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## SmithOp (May 26, 2011)

letsgobobby said:


> 9600 at HHV for $18,000 - think it would pass ROFR?



No way, is that the 3BR Lagoon Penthouse point level?  Lagoon is active rofr due to low inventory, they want those units back to re sell.


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## oneohana (May 26, 2011)

Could also be a 2 bed ocean front.
Earlier this week they offered us a 2 bed plus for $53k.


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## phil1ben (May 26, 2011)

This thread is helpful. However, it would be more useful if posters identified the date ROFR was waived (approximately i.e. 2d week of April, 2011) along with the price that passed ROFR. In the last four months it seems the ROFR price has increased steadily. To determine the current level it is necessary to know the date HGVC waived ROFR.


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## levatino (May 26, 2011)

Hello all,

I am considering selling HGVC Las Vegas Strip 5000 point annual and wonder what flat price you recommend to sell it outright on TUG Marketplace and pass ROFR.

thanks,
Paul


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## SmithOp (May 28, 2011)

oneohana said:


> Could also be a 2 bed ocean front.
> Earlier this week they offered us a 2 bed plus for $53k.



I own EOY gold season in the ocean front stack, 7000 pts. I paid $17K in 2001 from HGVC. They offered me what I paid in 08 when I bought KL, I said no way. The salesman told me later it was the smart choice, they were selling for $29K. Not too smart, it was my last retail purchase.


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## semicycler (May 31, 2011)

Closing now on 4800pts at Parc Soleil.  It passed ROFR at $7K.

Also closing on 7000pts at the Flamingo for $9K, the only property without ROFR.


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## rgong (May 31, 2011)

levatino said:


> Hello all,
> 
> I am considering selling HGVC Las Vegas Strip 5000 point annual and wonder what flat price you recommend to sell it outright on TUG Marketplace and pass ROFR.
> 
> ...



Paul, you could try looking at Judi K's site (judikoz.com) or Seth Nock's site (sellingtimeshares.net) to see what is the lowest price they list for your particular resort/season. I believe Judi won't list properties for less than what she believes will pass ROFR. A couple of months ago that was around $5K for a 5000 pt annual package; it may have crept up due to Hilton's aggressiveness in buying back inventory. And you may need to add a bit more for the LV Strip since there are active developer sales there. Good luck!


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## Lucigirl (Jun 3, 2011)

*Financing source for Hilton resale week*

Does anyone have a source for financing a timeshare resale week?


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## Jasmine658 (Jun 3, 2011)

*Never finance a timeshare*

Bad idea to ever finance a timeshare interest. If can't buy with cash or credit card for temporary perhaps, then suggest not buying at all. Never get a lender or mortgage for a timeshare.


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## JohnPaul (Jun 3, 2011)

*No Developer - No Resale*

I also appreciate the good deals on the resale market and have taken full advantage.

However, I am also very clear that if NO ONE buys from the developer there will be no new developments.

I often think people forget that.


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## dja1980 (Jun 13, 2011)

We passed ROFR for 2 timeshares on 5/6/11...

$7,500 (4,800 Platinum Orlando - Tuscany)

$12,000 (7,000 Platinum Orlando - Tuscany)

Judi let us know that she had 8 deals sent to Hilton that week, 4 exercised, 4 passed.  I don't think the system is as black and white as some might think.  She told us "I wish they had a system that I could follow."


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## mclyne (Jun 13, 2011)

Jerry Butler???? Do you mean the, "Ice Man"?

I like him too!!


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## dja1980 (Jun 13, 2011)

Caribgirl said:


> Jerry Butler???? Do you mean the, "Ice Man"?
> 
> I like him too!!


You forgot to push in the clutch before shifting... I'll help  



7SeasLover said:


> I suspect I'll be much happier once I actually book something and go! For now, I'm a happy duck (as I sit here listening to Jerry Butler - now if that doesn't age me I dunno what does!)  :rofl:


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## psychjoe (Jun 17, 2011)

Jasmine658 said:


> Bad idea to ever finance a timeshare interest. If can't buy with cash or credit card for temporary perhaps, then suggest not buying at all. Never get a lender or mortgage for a timeshare.



Sage advice.  My grandfather used to say "never live in another mans pocket."


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