# Spinco now Marriott Vacation Worldwide



## siberiavol (Jun 29, 2011)

The long awaited SEC filing has occurred. The name of the new company is Marriott Vacation Worldwide. You can find a link to the document on the Marriott site. Perhaps someone can link the over 200 page document.  I have read about 15% and will post more as I have time to read more

They plan on disposing  excess inventory which  consists primarily of land but will also do some " bulk  sales" of the luxury sector which I assume is related to Ritz Carton. They are interested in development of exchange activity and higher margin on site ancillary business. This could mean having something that competes with II and adding more restaurants. They might have specifics later in the document.

On the financial side they brought in $ 144M vs $164 in first twelve weeks last year. Their profits on the revenue was higher than last year which indicates to me that the cost cutting is helping profits. The numbers also indicate DC points are not flying off the shelf.


----------



## windje2000 (Jun 29, 2011)

siberiavol said:


> The long awaited SEC filing has occurred. The name of the new company is Marriott Vacation Worldwide. You can find a link to the document on the Marriott site. Perhaps someone can link the over 200 page document.  I have read about 15% and will post more as I have time to read more
> 
> They plan on disposing  excess inventory which  consists primarily of land but will also do some " bulk  sales" of the luxury sector which I assume is related to Ritz Carton. They are interested in development of exchange activity and higher margin on site ancillary business. This could mean having something that competes with II and adding more restaurants. They might have specifics later in the document.
> 
> On the financial side they brought in $ 144M vs $164 in first twelve weeks last year. Their profits on the revenue was higher than last year which indicates to me that the cost cutting is helping profits. The numbers also indicate DC points are not flying off the shelf.




Here's the Edgar Links   

LINK

Form 10 in html format


----------



## SueDonJ (Jun 29, 2011)

Here's the press release from news.marriott.com.  I'm really looking forward to the contributions from business- and legal-savvy TUGgers in the upcoming discussions about all this.



> We'll have a new corporate name to complement our new future but the names of our industry-leading brands, Marriott Vacation Club, The Ritz-Carlton Destination Club, and Grand Residences by Marriott, and our focus on delivering outstanding vacation experiences to our over 400,000 owners, won’t change.”


  I'm happy to see that at least the worst predictions aren't coming true yet; it doesn't appear that "spinco" is being developed and named in order to make it easy for Marriott to offload the timeshares to some fly-by-night shysters.


----------



## siberiavol (Jun 29, 2011)

" We are now turning our focus to generating greater number of new owners" .  This makes sense as most owners have been to a property in the last year and heard the sales pitch. I would not expect many existing owners to buy more points year  after year when they discover the trading isn't seamless and when they consider the alternatives.

One significant piece of information  was that the new trust points if purchased on the secondary market only allowed the owner access to trust properties. It means very limited access to the older properties which are in limited supply in the trust.  

A newbie mentions resale points and salesmen tells him , buy points from us if you want to get all these great resorts which are in limited supply. A current owner walks in and mentions resale weeks and he is told the only sure way to get access to new resorts is to buy points.  Potential resale buyers of points(assuming a market will develop) or weeks just need to remember the properties they do have access to.


----------



## TJCNewYork (Jun 29, 2011)

SueDonJ said:


> Here's the press release from news.marriott.com.  I'm really looking forward to the contributions from business- and legal-savvy TUGgers in the upcoming discussions about all this.
> 
> I'm happy to see that at least the worst predictions aren't coming true yet; it doesn't appear that "spinco" is being developed and named in order to make it easy for Marriott to offload the timeshares to some fly-by-night shysters.



Agreed. It's encouraging to read that spinco will retain the Marriott brand name in the new company name, 'Marriott Vacations Worldwide'.


----------



## ocdb8r (Jun 29, 2011)

*Opportunistically dispose of excess assets and selectively pursue “asset light” deal structures. We intend to dispose of certain excess assets, the majority of which consist of undeveloped land holdings, over the next few years and deploy the capital from these sales more effectively. While we do not need to develop new resorts at this time, we intend to selectively pursue growth opportunities by targeting high-quality inventory sources that allow us to add desirable new locations to our system as well as new sales locations through transactions that do not involve or limit our capital investment. These “asset light” deals could be structured as turn-key developments with third-party partners, purchases of constructed inventory just prior to sale, or fee-for-service arrangements.

Selectively pursue compelling new business opportunities. As an independent company, we are positioned to explore new business opportunities, such as development of our exchange activities, new management affiliations and select higher margin on-site ancillary businesses, that we may not have previously pursued as part of Marriott International. We intend to selectively pursue these types of opportunities with a focus on driving recurring streams of revenue and profit. Prior to entering into any new business, we will evaluate its strategic fit and assess whether it is complementary to our current business, has strong expected financial returns and leverages our existing competencies. *

Hmmm...bit of a double edged sword with these two strategies.  Doesn't really sound like the Marriott Vacation Club of the past  for the first, what I read is 1) we will dump any development land we've got instead of developing it and 2) we will then fill the gap in new resorts by purchasing developments from others.  Sounds pretty clear the hammer has fallen on the real estate development of the past...the one upside is that I guess I won't be too upset about gaining access to this _wonderful _new trust inventory with my dirty legacy points. 

On the second, I see a focus on bleeding existing owners of more cash on-site.  This isn't necessarily all bad...I would fully welcome increased offerings at the resorts and would be happy to part with my money for quality Marriott products and services.  However, I hope this isn't a guise for Wyndham like charging for every time someone dares to inhale.  A future in exchange revenue is going to be dependent on really working the kinks out of the DC system.


----------



## Lardan (Jun 29, 2011)

Personally, I think as long as Marriott keeps its name in the new company many of the worse predictions will not happen.  I also still feel keeping one's week(s) is better than changing to the points.  Still too many unknowns to do otherwise in my opinion.


----------



## BocaBoy (Jun 29, 2011)

TJCNewYork said:


> Agreed. It's encouraging to read that spinco will retain the Marriott brand name in the new company name, 'Marriott Vacations Worldwide'.


They announced at the time the spinoff was announced, or very shortly thereafter, that "Marriott" would be in the name of the new company, so why are people surprised?


----------



## Lardan (Jun 29, 2011)

BocaBoy said:


> They announced at the time the spinoff was announced, or very shortly thereafter, that "Marriott" would be in the name of the new company, so why are people surprised?



For me this puts an official spin to the spin.


----------



## EducatedConsumer (Jun 29, 2011)

If the leadership team that's in-place today is allowed to stay on, I anticipate abysmal financial performance. 

Today's performance by Owner Services with July 4th reservations was a disgrace. If MVCI hasn't been able to figure out how to handle an influx of calls/Internet hits in the 26 years they've been in business, I render them hopeless.

Refresh my memory, how many Weisz family members are now in leadership positions at MVCI?


----------



## bogey21 (Jun 29, 2011)

Can I buy stock in Marriott Vacation Worldwide?

George


----------



## windje2000 (Jun 29, 2011)

bogey21 said:


> Can I buy stock in Marriott Vacation Worldwide?
> 
> George



Not yet.

MAR will issue VAC (SPINCO) stock as a tax free stock dividend to existing MAR stockholders.  That stock will be registered with the SEC and will be traded in an active organized public market.

The spin off should be accomplished before year end.

Once that happens, you will be able to purchase stock in VAC the way you can purchase stock in any publicly traded company.


----------



## timeos2 (Jun 29, 2011)

If all was well and profits assured then the split wouldn't be happening.  Listen to the wind & realize this is big change. Selling off undeveloped property. Concentrating on new members/owners.  This is Wyndham all over again - stop all development (as most timeshare companies thankfully have - we REALLY don't need anymore!) and just do the high profit "conversions" to Club.  

And don't forget that the franchise/name means nothing. Look at what just occurred with the World Famous Las Vagas Hilton - care to go to the Ramada Inn at the Las Vegas Convention Center anyone? (Or whatever, usually lower quality, brand they decide to hook up with).  A name is just that - it can change easily tomorrow. And franchised outlets are even less stable.  Marriott walks away from them when they reach 8-12 years old all the time.  

The separation is not a good long term thing for the timeshare side. It smacks of a dying interest and seeing it as a dead end .  It will certainly survive  it's too big & generates too much not to - but it is unlikely to ever be big in new development again as they won't have the financial backing and lack the interest.  It will be a shell of what it once was.


----------



## bogey21 (Jun 29, 2011)

windje2000 said:


> Not yet.
> 
> MAR will issue VAC (SPINCO) stock as a tax free stock dividend to existing MAR stockholders.  That stock will be registered with the SEC and will be traded in an active organized public market............Once that happens, you will be able to purchase stock in VAC the way you can purchase stock in any publicly traded company.



Thanks.  I'll be watching carefully.  I think they will figure out how to maximize corporate revenue which may not be in the best interest of their Owners but will be in the best interest of their Stockholders.  

George


----------



## kjd (Jun 29, 2011)

I agree with John's comments that the company is heading in a new direction and maybe leaving us behind.  Will we be an afterthought as the new direction takes hold?  The only consideration for the claimed 400,000 MVCI members apparently is going to be how best to shear the sheep.  A couple of things immediately come to mind.

For resorts that are not fully built are they going to continue on to build them out in the way they promised or does it mean they will either sell property to other developers to build what they want.  Or, does it mean that they will open new hotels or other businesses (like offices or short term furnished rental) on resort property and manage it.  Or, will they complete these resorts with another Marriott product like a full-service hotel or convention center.

When they speak of being "asset light" I get nervous because one can conjure up all sorts of possibilities with that approach. It may sound good to investors but it's not good for owners.  Will the new operation be more willing to dump older properties?  Who knows, some day we may be part of the Motel 6 chain.  I'll leave the light on for you.


----------



## EducatedConsumer (Jun 29, 2011)

Executive Compensation is an interesting read.


----------



## siberiavol (Jun 29, 2011)

Marriott Vacation Worldwide has to keep up brand standards or they will lose the Marriott name. They have to do a good job or  they will be fired by the HOA. They don't want either to happen.  I don't think there is much risk that the Marriott timeshare we visit in five years will be a dump or even pretty good. It will still be high quality.

The risk is related to how MVW relates to the 400,000 current owners. If they still see us as good future revenue producers in some form or the other then we will be treated pretty well. It won't be like the old days but  we will not be treated as adversaries. If they conclude the old owners are not part of the future then you can expect MVW to do every thing in their power to maximize profits without regard to how it affects the legacy owners.I don't think it is at that point yet and hopefully never will be.


----------



## dioxide45 (Jun 29, 2011)

TJCNewYork said:


> Agreed. It's encouraging to read that spinco will retain the Marriott brand name in the new company name, 'Marriott Vacations Worldwide'.



I wouldn't expect Marriott to be in the name forever. When they spun off Host the name was Host Marriott Systems, now it is just HMS Host.



bogey21 said:


> Can I buy stock in Marriott Vacation Worldwide?
> 
> George



If you buy Marriott International stock now, you will get SpinCo stock when it is spun off.


----------



## pwrshift (Jun 29, 2011)

dioxide45 said:


> .
> If you buy Marriott International stock now, you will get SpinCo stock when it is spun off.



But the mother stock isn't a penny stock (yet).


----------



## dioxide45 (Jun 29, 2011)

As expected Marriott won't be building out any of their own new resorts any time soon. As expected they will complete resorts where they ave commitments to do so. Unloading land is a good move and likely to happen quickly after the spin off. Better to take the hit on the NewCo's books than on MI's. Do they still own the land in Cancun. It would have been fantastic if they had built a resort there, but that now will likely never happen.

I don't really get the fascination with urban resorts and converting hotel units to timeshares. Those converted hotel units are some of the worst in the MVCI system. Not saying the resorts are, just the units.


----------



## GaryDouglas (Jun 30, 2011)

siberiavol said:


> ... lose the Marriott name.


 
In 1992, the Marriott Corporation split into two separate entities, creating Marriott International and Host Marriott. Later, Host Marriott further divided into two separate companies, Host Marriott and a new company, Host Marriott Services Corporation (now known as HMSHost Corporation). This can be found and was cleverly paraphrased from Wikipedia.

The way these companies split, combine, recombine and morph, and one even losing the Marriott name, leads me to believe that keeping the Marriott name is not necessarily their primary concern.


----------



## TJCNewYork (Jun 30, 2011)

dioxide45 said:


> I wouldn't expect Marriott to be in the name forever. When they spun off Host the name was Host Marriott Systems, now it is just HMS Host.



Rebranding of Marriott Vacation Club as Marriott Vacations Worldwide is mutually beneficial for MI and MVW. Like Courtyard and Residence Inn to Ritz-Carlton,Marriott International will collect licensing fees and marketing/technology fees for utilization of the reservations system and MRP and MR Elite program incentives.  The positive for MVW is leveraging the power, confidence and trust conveyed by the Marriott name and the customer loyalty to the brand. 

Marriott's core competency is brand management. So my hunch is that the rebranding is for the long term. Btw, HMS is an excellent example of brand management. HMS Host is an airport food-service company. From a brand management perspective, shortening the name reduces the potential for confusion and ultimately strengthens the Marriott brand overall.


----------



## dioxide45 (Jun 30, 2011)

As reported on another forum. Resale trust point owners will not be able to utilize the internal exchange component of the program. They will only be able to reserve underlying trust inventory. No more, no less.

I don't understand the company's desire to decimate resale values.


----------



## timeos2 (Jun 30, 2011)

dioxide45 said:


> As reported on another forum. Resale trust point owners will not be able to utilize the internal exchange component of the program. They will only be able to reserve underlying trust inventory. No more, no less.
> 
> I don't understand the company's desire to decimate resale values.



See Wyndham SOP 101 for all the gory details.  Be prepared. It's not pretty. The process works very well. What remains unknown is why any corporation purposely wants to devalue the very product they sell.


----------



## LAX Mom (Jul 1, 2011)

dioxide45 said:


> As reported on another forum. Resale trust point owners will not be able to utilize the internal exchange component of the program. They will only be able to reserve underlying trust inventory. No more, no less.
> 
> I don't understand the company's desire to decimate resale values.


With this information I will be prepared next time I talk with a Marriott rep. 

Why would I purchase something that I can't sell on the resale market at some date down the road? I've asked Marriott about this issue several times in the past year and was always assured that Marriott would have some type of resale option available. This seems to indicate there will be very little value in resale points. 

I've always known timeshares are not a good investment and figured someday I'll likely give my Marriotts away. But I bought them resale and they paid for themselves the first time I used them.

I can't see purchasing points worth $40,000 (or more) and possibly having to give them away.  

One more reason not to purchase points in the Destination Club!


----------



## GregT (Jul 1, 2011)

dioxide45 said:


> As reported on another forum. *Resale trust point owners will not be able to utilize the internal exchange component of the program. They will only be able to reserve underlying trust inventory*. No more, no less.
> 
> I don't understand the company's desire to decimate resale values.



I thought this was interesting too -- but not surprising because Marriott desparately needs ways to attract new customers ("Don't buy a week, you can't use points, which are the latest") and ("if you buy points resale, you can't get into our cool exchange system").   

It appears they are counting on that retail points purchaser not realizing that some day they will want/need to sell their points -- which will now be 20% of purchase price.   Not that different from when they were selling legacy weeks that plummeted in value when the recission rights lapsed.     And by continuing to decimate resale values (of legacy weeks), it makes it easier for Marriott to re-acquire any desired inventory via ROFR.

We week owners are a necessary component of the system, but not a valued partner -- even though we've supported them over the years (and we own 97% of the actual inventory).   But they've brilliantly figured out other ways to get that inventory, even without our active participation.   The system is just attractive enough that we participate (building the Exchange Inventory)-- but I have yet to seen something that it is genuinely designed to appeal to the Legacy Week owner.

It's really an interesting approach -- skim the actual owners of the weeks that you need, charge them admission, and then try to sell them points that will be very complicated to use for a reservation.   I doubt that's how they intended it to be viewed, but that's not an inaccurate perspective.

All this negativity aside, I believe the system is going to work and that down the road, we will be satisfied with the performance of the system.  People still have to report successful results from making point reservations.

I recall there was alot of unhappiness with changes that Worldmark (ie Wyndham) made in November 2006 (mostly bad for existing owners), but over time, people adjusted and found they could still use their ownership in a manner they were familiar with (at least thats what I can tell from WMOwners).   It was even additive to me because I got access to some Wyndham properties I never would have otherwise.   If DClub gets some new properties, or gets a new bell/whistle, and I can access it, it will be a benefit to me that I don't appreciate today.

So....I try not to be disappointed with Marriotts current indifference to us.   I understand that I am viewed as yesterday's customer -- and since DClub was introduced, it's correct that I've purchased outside of Marriott into other systems where I would like to travel -- and I encourage other Marriott owners to consider systems that complement their Marriott ownership.   

I think we will all be fine -- in hindsight, it was necessary for Marriott to skim its faithful ownership base (but I still don't like being skimmed), because they needed someone to buy $600M worth of stuff in the first year.  That trusting ownership did their part (and will soon learn its tough to utilize those points) -- and as a result, Marriott Vacation Club is much more stable today than they were 12 months ago, whhen they had declining revenues, too much inventory, limited ability to securitize new receivables and a lot of debt.  Looking at it twelve months later, having flat revenues, less debt, freedom to operate, and a future is a much better position to be in.

Let's relax, enjoy the ride, buy companion systems if you want to buy something, see if Marriott ever does anything positive for its legacy ownership, rent legacy points when needed, rent trust points when it makes sense, buy trust points resale in 5 years when the Trust is much bigger, and enjoy our vacations in whatever system we own.

Best to all,

Greg


----------



## puckmanfl (Jul 1, 2011)

good morning...

This is the Greg I am used to...

Cautiously optimistic, with a "smidge" of realistic sarcasm.  Mix this in with tremendously educated insight, a super helping of business sense and intelligence.  Makes for some of the best posting on this forum!  A marked contrast to my emotional irrationality!!!

Way to go GregT..

p.s  The other forum mentioned is manned by a previous Tugger identified by a nice ski goggle picture...  any guesses????


----------



## gblotter (Jul 1, 2011)

ocdb8r said:


> Opportunistically dispose of excess assets and selectively pursue “asset light” deal structures. We intend to dispose of certain excess assets, the majority of which consist of undeveloped land holdings, over the next few years and deploy the capital from these sales more effectively.


I'm pretty sure that means an end to any development at Kauai Lagoons. I expect the two golf courses and adjacent parcels to be sold off. Those grand Ritz Carlton plans were only the latest in a series of failed ideas over the decades to develop Kauai Lagoons.  That location seems to be cursed.

Regardless of the anxiety these changes are creating for MVCI owners, Ritz Club owners are even worse off.  They have invested very large sums into very unprofitable properties.  The have much more to lose and I expect they are even more disillusioned/disgusted than us Marriott owners.


----------



## TJCNewYork (Jul 1, 2011)

gblotter said:


> Regardless of the anxiety these changes are creating for MVCI owners, Ritz Club owners are even worse off.  They have invested very large sums into very unprofitable properties.  The have much more to lose and I expect they are even more disillusioned/disgusted than us Marriott owners.



My hunch, it's the other way around.  Can anyone point to a discussion board with Ritz owner feedback - positive or negative?  Destination Club has roots in the Ritz-Carlton luxury vacation market.  Given the demographics, fractional owners are in fact an excellent target market for Destination Club, IMHO.  Given the price points and the marketing collateral, Destination Club is positioned as a step-up into the world of personalized and upscale vacation experiences.


----------



## TJCNewYork (Jul 1, 2011)

Also, given the trend towards mixed-use development and the cost-effectiveness of conversions, combining luxury and upscale brands with standard hotel development offers investors the potential for a higher return.  Licensing the Marriott or Ritz-Carlton brand names is also cost-effective and just part of the course of doing business.   Lake Shore Reserve, LA Live and The Cosmopolitan Las Vegas provide several examples of mixed-use development trend where mixing Marriott brands is working.


----------



## gblotter (Jul 1, 2011)

TJCNewYork said:


> Given the price points and the marketing collateral, Destination Club is positioned as a step-up into the world of personalized and upscale vacation experiences.


Ritz Club owners want luxury and exclusivity.  Even if they are very nice resorts, the Trust properties do not really compare with the level of accommodations and service that Ritz Club owners are seeking.  I have relatives who roll with the Ritz crowd.  Believe me - they are not interested in vacationing at the upscale Trust properties.  Not upscale even compared to the homes they live in.

We've previously tried to entice them into vacationing with us at Maui Ocean Club or Ko'Olina.  They just chuckle and politely decline.


----------



## jlp879 (Jul 1, 2011)

puckmanfl said:


> p.s  The other forum mentioned is manned by a previous Tugger identified by a nice ski goggle picture...  any guesses????



PerryM?  Where is he lurking these days?  I miss his debates.


----------



## puckmanfl (Jul 1, 2011)

good afternoon...

Janice

Here you go....


http://www.mvci.timesharewizard.com/index.php


----------



## hotcoffee (Jul 1, 2011)

GregT said:


> . . . Marriott desparately needs ways to attract new customers . . .



I cannot think of anything they have done so far that would attract new customers.  There are only so many people out there who can be talked into buying enough points to actually reserve anything good for a full week.



GregT said:


> It appears they are counting on that retail points purchaser not realizing that some day they will want/need to sell their points -- which will now be 20% of purchase price.   Not that different from when they were selling legacy weeks that plummeted in value when the recission rights lapsed.     And by continuing to decimate resale values (of legacy weeks), it makes it easier for Marriott to re-acquire any desired inventory via ROFR. . . .



As far as I can see, Marriott does not care about people.  Sooner or later, many (if not most) people will want to sell their interest in timesharing; but Marriott would like to stop that from happening.  They don't care about who the seller is or what their need is for selling.  They are blinded by their very strong dislike for the whole concept of timeshare resales.  I see no evidence that their strong dislike of resales will diminish any time soon.



GregT said:


> All this negativity aside, I believe the system is going to work and that down the road, we will be satisfied with the performance of the system.  People still have to report successful results from making point reservations. . . .



So far, it has worked for me.  It also seems to be working for others posting in this forum.  But, they could make the program so much more appealing if they wanted to.


----------



## TJCNewYork (Jul 1, 2011)

gblotter said:


> Ritz Club owners want luxury and exclusivity.  Even if they are very nice resorts, the Trust properties do not really compare with the level of accommodations and service that Ritz Club owners are seeking.  I have relatives who roll with the Ritz crowd.  Believe me - they are not interested in vacationing at the upscale Trust properties.  Not upscale even compared to the homes they live in.
> 
> We've previously tried to entice them into vacationing with us at Maui Ocean Club or Ko'Olina.  They just chuckle and politely decline.



We're on the same page.  My statement about "positioning as a step up" is incomplete b/c the "positioning" may be too forward looking for the very reason stated, "Ritz Club owners want luxury and exclusivity".  To your point, "exclusivity" is a "must have" and Ritz Carlton Gold Standards of service set that expectation very clearly compared to the MAR Culture, IMO.  It will be very interesting to see the MVW mission statement.


----------



## kjd (Jul 1, 2011)

One of the outward appearances of the change to a points system and the news of a new Spinco is that the sales operation has shrunk.  It seems there is far less emphasis on tour package stays.  It also appears that there is less sales staff and management present.  The emphasis of the staff that is still left is to sell points to existing owners.  ROFR has all but disappeared.  New construction has been curtailed or eliminated.

You could say it's because of the bad economy but is it a sign of future operations?  I'm not sure if the old sales model as we know it fits the new company and the new operation.  Maybe the new stratigic plan is to build from within and have the future growth be either organic or through mergers and buyouts of other timeshare companies.  In other words, build the customer base from within and then do a milking operation on them.  If true, I'm not sure where that would leave us.


----------



## charlie100 (Jul 3, 2011)

Let's relax, enjoy the ride, buy companion systems if you want to buy something, see if Marriott ever does anything positive for its legacy ownership, rent legacy points when needed, rent trust points when it makes sense, buy trust points resale in 5 years when the Trust is much bigger, and enjoy our vacations in whatever system we own.

Best to all,

Greg[/QUOTE]

I wish I could be this optimistic.   I have realized that at some point in the near future, my wife and I will no longer be interested in any travel. Paying maintenance fees and other costs will be difficult or maybe impossible. If Marriott only caters to new points owners and bars resale owners from joining, doesn't that effectively make resale of the deeded week nearly impossible?  Do owners of these units have any real rights?

Spinco should realize that the long term business model needs to have some reasonable chance of having some type of resale market.  I plan on using the time share one more year and hope to be able to dump it at some salvage value  or give it  away to avoid future costs and  risk of ownership.

Charlie


----------



## dioxide45 (Jul 4, 2011)

I wonder in two years what trust points will be selling for on the resale market. Given that there could be a $1 per point ROFR fee and the fact that they will only be able to reserve trust inventory. Of which more than 50% is allocated to only 4 or 5 resorts. I really don't see them selling for more than $1 per point. They could be worth picking up on the resale market to hold on to and rent out for $0.05 over MF/point until the trust gets big enough to make them viable.


----------



## dioxide45 (Jul 4, 2011)

Am I the only one that thinks the _Marriott Vacation Worldwide _name sucks? IMO they could have done much better. The name just seems to have been conceived vary quickly and without much thought. Did they put the name out to focus groups?

Couldn't they have just stuck with Marriott Vacation Club International? It is a known brand and would have saved all our resorts some money. Now we will all have to pay to have new signs made up to re-brand our resorts with what I think is a lame name. It just doesn't have that POP that I would have expected.


----------



## TJCNewYork (Jul 5, 2011)

dioxide45 said:


> Am I the only one that thinks the _Marriott Vacation Worldwide _name sucks? IMO they could have done much better. The name just seems to have been conceived vary quickly and without much thought. Did they put the name out to focus groups?
> 
> Couldn't they have just stuck with Marriott Vacation Club International? It is a known brand and would have saved all our resorts some money. Now we will all have to pay to have new signs made up to re-brand our resorts with what I think is a lame name. It just doesn't have that POP that I would have expected.



Perhaps MVW will be a holding company?  I'm hoping that 'the sense of belonging' that Vacation Club conveys is retained as a brand name.  As MVC owners, we participate and 'belong to a group' that shares common vacation ownership privileges and experiences. The word 'club' conveys relationship.  Taking "club" away and replacing with 'worldwide' has the ring of a transaction.


----------



## TheTimeTraveler (Jul 5, 2011)

dioxide45 said:


> I wonder in two years what trust points will be selling for on the resale market. Given that there could be a $1 per point ROFR fee and the fact that they will only be able to reserve trust inventory. Of which more than 50% is allocated to only 4 or 5 resorts. I really don't see them selling for more than $1 per point. They could be worth picking up on the resale market to hold on to and rent out for $0.05 over MF/point until the trust gets big enough to make them viable.






I am a buyer at $1 per point.  Count me in.... 




.


----------



## windje2000 (Jul 5, 2011)

TheTimeTraveler said:


> I am a buyer at $1 per point.  Count me in....
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Sure about that?  Those $1 resale points can only reserve inventory fewer than 60 days prior to the commencement of occupancy.

Take a look at the post at this LINK


----------



## gblotter (Jul 5, 2011)

dioxide45 said:


> ... and the fact that they will only be able to reserve trust inventory. Of which more than 50% is allocated to only 4 or 5 resorts.


Can anyone point me to a list of which resorts are in the Trust?  And what amount of Trust inventory exists for each resort?


----------



## GregT (Jul 5, 2011)

windje2000 said:


> Sure about that?  Those $1 resale points can only reserve inventory fewer than 60 days prior to the commencement of occupancy.
> 
> Take a look at the post at this LINK



WindJE, please forgive the question, but where does it restrict to only 60 days prior to occupancy?  I can definitely see the connection where resale Trust Points can be blocked from having the access to Exchange Inventory, but I can't find how they are further restricted to only reservations within 60 days.   

Please advise and thanks!

Greg


----------



## windje2000 (Jul 5, 2011)

GregT said:


> WindJE, please forgive the question, but where does it restrict to only 60 days prior to occupancy?  I can definitely see the connection where resale Trust Points can be blocked from having the access to Exchange Inventory, but I can't find how they are further restricted to only reservations within 60 days.
> 
> Please advise and thanks!
> 
> Greg



It says it by defining when those having "Base Plus" and "Exchange" benefits may reserve.  Points owners are not necessarily entitled to either of the above levels of benefits.

If one does not have "Base Plus" or at least "Exchange Benefits"  the docs limit you to reserving no more than 60 days out.  You might want to read the whole thread.


----------



## dioxide45 (Jul 5, 2011)

windje2000 said:


> It says it by defining when those having "Base Plus" and "Exchange" benefits may reserve.  Points owners are not necessarily entitled to either of the above levels of benefits.
> 
> If one does not have "Base Plus" or at least "Exchange Benefits"  the docs limit you to reserving no more than 60 days out.  You might want to read the whole thread.



I think you are referring to the exchange procedures document. This clearly does indicate a 60 day booking window. We did discuss this a lot early on in the new program. However, a trust owner that buys resale wouldn't be an exchange company member and therefore wouldn't be bound by those procedures. So the booking window for a resale trust owner would be based on the the procedures relating to the trust. But there really isn't anything that I am aware of that discusses when a trust owner can make reservations.


----------



## cruisin (Jul 6, 2011)

timeos2 said:


> See Wyndham SOP 101 for all the gory details.  Be prepared. It's not pretty. The process works very well. What remains unknown is why any corporation purposely wants to devalue the very product they sell.



Wyndham is the road they are traveling. 

I Think its funny, Wyndham really wanted to be thought of as the same quality as Marriott, and years ago, that was their goal, I know people who work and sell for Wyndham, it is funny to them that Marriott now wants to act like Wyndham, and that is not good for the Marriott Vacation Club.


----------



## windje2000 (Jul 6, 2011)

dioxide45 said:


> I think you are referring to the exchange procedures document. This clearly does indicate a 60 day booking window. We did discuss this a lot early on in the new program. However, a trust owner that buys resale wouldn't be an exchange company member and therefore wouldn't be bound by those procedures. So the booking window for a resale trust owner would be based on the the procedures relating to the trust. But there really isn't anything that I am aware of that discusses when a trust owner can make reservations.



You are right - we have had this discussion before.  Took another look at the docs to see if your observation is addressed in the exchange co docs.

*From the Xchange Co introduction*


> These   Exchange   Procedures   for   Marriott   Vacation   Club   Destinations   Exchange   Program   (“Exchange Procedures”)       are  specifically   promulgated     for  the  Marriott    Vacation    Club   Destinations    Exchange     Program (“Program”) by Marriott Resorts, Travel Company, Inc. d/b/a MVC Exchange Company, a Delaware corporation, as Exchange Company (as defined in Schedule “1”).





> These Exchange Procedures have been designed to facilitate Members’   ability   to   *reserve*   and   exchange   the   use   of   Accommodations   (as   defined   in   Schedule   “1”),   facilities, services,   and   experiences   offered   through   the   Program  each   year,   and   corresponding   exchange   of   access   to   any Accommodations, facilities, services, and experiences that are a part of any other Affiliate Program (as defined in Schedule “1”).





*From page 17*


> Member means a person (natural or otherwise) who owns an Interest in an Affiliate Program, a Component or Accommodation that is affiliated with the Program.




*From page 15*


> Base Exchange Benefits mean the limited ability to make exchanges during the Open Reservation Period  and   access   to   such   other   programs   and   services   defined   and   offered   by   Exchange   Company   as   Base Exchange Benefits, from time to time, in Exchange Company’s sole and absolute discretion.
> 
> Base Interest shall have the same meaning as such term is defined in a _Trust Member’s Affiliate Program Documents_.



It appears to me that the exchange company document 

1.  States it cover trust owners' _reservations_, and

2.  Defines the term 'member' for its own purposes.  


A person who owns resale points is a 'member' (as defined by the exchange company) yet will never pay (or even be permitted to pay) an initiation fee, or annual dues because they didn't buy from an approved broker. They only pay the MF on the points.  

I view (and characterize) them as 'points owners', since they enjoy none of the real benefits of 'membership' and don't (aren't allowed to) pay dues or initiation fees -- anything -- for the benefits of 'membership' other than making a 60 days out reservation.

Those 'points owners' have 'less than base exchange benefits'

If you have less than base exchange benefits, you are in the 60 window.

I have yet to find what are labelled the *Trust Member’s Affiliate Program Documents. * I am assuming that represents the docs on the Destination Club cd they pass out.

It may well be worth it to reread some of these documents, now that we have had a year to try to figure it out.


----------

