# Can't Give It Away_ Bluebeards



## milotcat (Nov 12, 2006)

Anyone have a way out? Tried donating it, was turned down. Couldn't get a buyer. The thing is paid up to date! What now?


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## gmarine (Nov 12, 2006)

EBAY with no reserve and a starting bid of $1.


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## timeos2 (Nov 12, 2006)

*no surprise*

This type of situation was to be expected when you have two parties fighting each other rather than coming to a reasonable agreement for the good of the resort. Both sides have made offers, mistakes, played the blame game  and now are hurting everyone. There are no winners but plenty of losers.


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## falmouth3 (Nov 12, 2006)

*Offer it for free?*

That's been done here with other TS that people are having trouble getting rid of.  Just let people know it's available for free, with the new owner paying the closing costs and whatever MF are due.  That's if you're willing to give it away.


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## Carolinian (Nov 13, 2006)

The HOA's have agreed to arbitration a long time ago.  It is unFairfield that is balking at that solution.  It is very clear where the blame lies on these issues dragging on.  The heavy handed way that Fairfield has handled this issue with the HOA's puts any Fairfield resort that Fairfield has any role in whatsoever on my list of resorts that you could not give me.





			
				timeos2 said:
			
		

> This type of situation was to be expected when you have two parties fighting each other rather than coming to a reasonable agreement for the good of the resort. Both sides have made offers, mistakes, played the blame game  and now are hurting everyone. There are no winners but plenty of losers.


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## Spence (Nov 13, 2006)

falmouth3 said:
			
		

> That's been done here with other TS that people are having trouble getting rid of.  Just let people know it's available for free, with the new owner paying the closing costs and whatever MF are due.  That's if you're willing to give it away.


According to DaveM, if you offer it under those conditions, it is not free.  He nixed my posting of one of my resorts where the only 'cost' was a $50 fee to the resort HOA.  It can be seen OY.

Anyway, take gmarine's advice above, he knows everything, an eBay search shows how succesful his strategy can be for Bluebeard's


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## milotcat (Nov 13, 2006)

[_Message deleted. Please read Spence's post. Also consider placing a free ad in the Bargain Basement Timeshares section of the new TUG Classified beta ads. Instructions are at this link._ Dave M, BBS Administrator]


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## irish (Nov 13, 2006)

bargain basement of tug classified?? what is this? and what the heck is beta?


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## Spence (Nov 13, 2006)

irish said:
			
		

> what the heck is beta?


beta - preliminary or testing stage of a software or hardware product; "a beta version"; "beta software"


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## gmarine (Nov 13, 2006)

What is so bad at Bluebeards that you cant give it away? 

Spence, if you and I argue on one thread, how about not bringing it to another thread?


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## Spence (Nov 13, 2006)

This is why there's Timeshare Relief.


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## Spence (Nov 13, 2006)

[_Message deleted. Please "Be Courteous" or don't post._ Dave M, BBS Administrator]


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## jphillips131 (Nov 14, 2006)

*Selling your timeshare*

I suggest that you try ebay and bidshares as well as an ad in timeshare beat.
Dick Cornell - board president at Bluebeard also has a list of potential sellers on this web site at http://www.bluebeards.net


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## Tia (Nov 14, 2006)

I actually think it would be different if the resort was within driving distance, but it's airfare. Airfares that are not usually inexpensive, so that limits people with budgets imo. Then too the maint. fees are not to be sneezed at right now, hopefully once it gets through the courts and the past $$$ handling issues are resolved things will seem brighter.


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## Need to Travel (Mar 11, 2007)

What is the current status of the lawsuit? Do they have a court date?


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## johnmfaeth (Mar 12, 2007)

Hi All,

First, please do not call it Bluebeards. The name is Bluebeard's Castle. This is versus a completely different resort called Bluebeard's Beach Club which is on the beach just 1/2 mile away from the Marriott on Frenchman's Bay. The Beach Club is a small resort with a happy owner's collection, new pool, new tennis court, good maintenance. Many know the Beach Club as the Limetree Resort which was its name before 1985. It is also a FF/Wyndham property.

The units at Bluebeard's Castle are nice enough inside. Here are the issues:

- Public areas poorly maintained and in need of major capital investment.
- Battles between the 4 HOA's and Equivest (Fairfield's predecessor which were inherited by FF with the 2002 acquisition of Equivest).
- Delinquency rate through the roof (almost 20%) which causes paying owners to fork over $850 per year for a studio unit. 
- 3 miles to the nearest beach. Great views of the housing project downtown.
- Fairfield has largely abandoned the resort but still owns the public areas, the new management company is SPM resorts which has yet to negotiate a rental agreement with FF for these common areas.

There is a $20 Million+ lawsuit coming up for initial hearings this Spring in the USVI courts. If that fails, the place is dead IMHO. 

No charity will accept these units.

John

PS. Please change the name of this thread to Bluebeard's Castle

PPS. I don't think airfares have nuch to do with this one. USVI tourism levels are in their third record year in a row. Timeshare creation/expansion at the Marriott, Westin (St. John), and Renaissance (new Wyndham aquisition) are selling very quickly. It's the particular property and the conditions listed above IMHO. The Beach Club and The Elysian Beach (both Wyndham) were at 100% occupancy all winter.


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## Arkansas Winger (Mar 12, 2007)

Spence said:


> According to DaveM, if you offer it under those conditions, it is not free.  He nixed my posting of one of my resorts where the only 'cost' was a $50 fee to the resort HOA.  It can be seen OY.



Not real sure what you are referring to here. As there are properties listed stating purchaser is responsible for closing costs, transfer fees and some want re-embursement of MF. I believe the made requirement is the property must be priced at $25 or less.

http://www.tugbbs.com/c_ads/showcat.php?cat=88


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## Laurie (Mar 12, 2007)

Maybe I should be asking this in another forum, but... where/how does this list of Bargain Basement Timeshares appear, if you don't have this link? I looked for it the other day under Classified Ads, as well as Resort Databases for Members Only Links, and couldn't find it in either place. (I have something I may want to list there.)  But it seems really hard to find, therefore much less useful to buyers and sellers than it could be.


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## kdrew (Mar 12, 2007)

*Some minor corrections..........Blyebeards BBC*



johnmfaeth said:


> Hi All,
> 
> First, please do not call it Bluebeards. The name is Bluebeard's Castle. This is versus a completely different resort called Bluebeard's Beach Club which is on the beach just 1/2 mile away from the Marriott on Frenchman's Bay. The Beach Club is a small resort with a happy owner's collection, new pool, new tennis court, good maintenance. Many know the Beach Club as the Limetree Resort which was its name before 1985. It is also a FF/Wyndham property.
> 
> ...



John (an others):

Some small corrections-

The Castle has always been called Bluebeard's. Remember, it was the Beach Club that was added to te Bluebeard's stable not long ago. Try as you will, when people here Bluebeard's, they will think of the Castle first and foremost. Not throwing arrows, just pointing out facts.

Apparently you are a beach person since you say the Castle is 3 miles from the closest beach. IF you are like most Castle owners, that is worth it since you can visit all the fabulous beaches around the island. While the beach Club has a beach, it is not a great beach. Don't get me wrong, it's not bad but there are many more I go to before I get there (if at all). Plus the view from the Castle cannot be matched and it's location is near perfect.

The public areas are poorly maintained. Yes but you do not give the reason which is the lovely Fairfield ownership. In their quest to get what they want, they have hurt owners by doing whatever they can to punish those who stand up for their rights (owners!). 

SPM is not in charge of getting a rental agreement with FF for the common areas. FF has has neglected a Shared Use Agreement and thus the issues with developer owned property.

Owners through the Boards have been very vocal in their love of the resort and are determined to either reach a settlement or push through the courts. It is not an issue of who is right. FF knows owners are correct. The question is how much is FF going to pay. They are squeezing owners as hard as possible to get them to accept a lowball offer. Owners just want a fair offer. In fact, it is relatively simple but FF refuses to even meet. They have refused binding arbitration since 2003!!!  

As for donating the unit, there are several options that exist but people do not want to explore them. They forget that they need to have their fees paid in full and be current in their property taxes and hold their deed.  Deeds are owed by FF since they were part of most people's purchase agreement but owners are forced to pay additional money to get their deeds if they go through FF. The only way out is to show your original P/S with the line regarding the deeds to be provided by the developer upon full payment.

The Elysian has a very small owner base as does the Beach Club. The Castle has its issues and eventually will return to a gold Crown resort. It is just a matter of time.

Keep in mind, the castle may actually become owners of the Elysian and Beach Club if a settlement goes through the courts so it could get very interesting to see what would happen then since the Castle could sell off the Beach Club and Elysian to whomever it wants.............never a dull moment.

Long live Bluebeard's! BBC forever!!! 


Ken


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## timeos2 (Mar 12, 2007)

*FF may dump the old Equivest*

Ken - There have also been rumors that FF (Wyndham) may dump most of the old Equivest holdings - including Bluebeards Castle - as they don't meet the new standards. In the end the Association may be fighting with a very limited group rather than the much larger Wyndham system. Never underestimate how quickly these companies can act if it helps them.  If they do divest it and then they have financial issues (such as a huge $$ award) they can go bankrupt and poof - the money is gone. I know, I've seen it happen first hand at a resort. The owners are always at the bottom of the food chain even if they are right legally or just morally.  Overall Wyndham has been very good to us as owners but they seem to have screwed up the Equivest thing very badly.  You know I also think the BB owners may have lost a chance to upgrade as well but thats water over the dam and now you have to do what you can to salvage things. I wish you all the best as no timeshare owner should have to put up with this type of mess.


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## kdrew (Mar 12, 2007)

*Divest to whom.........*



timeos2 said:


> Ken - There have also been rumors that FF (Wyndham) may dump most of the old Equivest holdings - including Bluebeards Castle - as they don't meet the new standards. In the end the Association may be fighting with a very limited group rather than the much larger Wyndham system. Never underestimate how quickly these companies can act if it helps them.  If they do divest it and then they have financial issues (such as a huge $$ award) they can go bankrupt and poof - the money is gone. I know, I've seen it happen first hand at a resort. The owners are always at the bottom of the food chain even if they are right legally or just morally.  Overall Wyndham has been very good to us as owners but they seem to have screwed up the Equivest thing very badly.  You know I also think the BB owners may have lost a chance to upgrade as well but thats water over the dam and now you have to do what you can to salvage things. I wish you all the best as no timeshare owner should have to put up with this type of mess.



Who will buy a resort that is in litigation? I do not disagree that there are several possibilities out there as to what may happen. Time will tell......Connecting the dots to FF and fiurther up the food chain is the lawyer's job.

As for not meeting their standards, I agree. They don't meet owner's standards and who is to blame? Owners? Again, we will see. The sad thing is that we do not want a winning lottery ticket. We want a fair settlement. Plain and simple.

Thanks!

Ken


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## johnmfaeth (Mar 12, 2007)

Hi Ken,

As a Castle owner, like any outsider, you will have to pay the daily use fee to get access to the Beach Club Beach. We like our beach for ourselves, just like our Marriott neighbors next door. Considerable efforts have been made to police this as we did have an issue last year with taxi's dropping off cruise ship passengers to use our private resort. 

I am always with the owners when it comes to timeshares. I hope you get a large settlement from Wyndham, the combined Cendent made $1.7 Billion net profit last year, I think they can afford it. (and in cash)

With the Beach Club and Elysian being rebranded Wyndham's immediately after the merger (when other resorts like Shawnee were not, and the Castle was dropped from the FF system), I think their intent is clear. And the Elysian is 2/3 privately owned full year condos. Wth a private, self controlled condo association. Wyndham just manages their 1/3 as another association member. The association does all the resort maintenance.

These are the only two Wyndham VO properties running today in the Caribbean. They sell a lot of points to people using these as showcases.

So I believe your speculation is unfounded. Since you are one of the activists at the Castle, I have always felt this ancient "Castle will be given your resort" rumors have always been designed to scare the owners at the other resorts into backing your positions. I back your positions because they are just and fair. However, this fear based argument without reality lessens your arguments and your credibility IMHO.

I'm glad to report that both the Elysian and Beach Club owners are pretty happy in general. These resorts are in great shape. That is the point of my initial posting. We are different....

John


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## timeos2 (Mar 12, 2007)

*Whats in a name?*

The games played by the developers with names and associations with other resorts do tend to cause issues for owners. Look at what is likely to happen with OLCC now that they (finally) acknowledge that the 20+ year old areas are NOT the same as the ones built in the past 5 years and now they have 4 or more resorts within a resort. It will be confusing for owners, buyers and guests. it would have been much better to name and sell them separately at the start. Even at much smaller resorts like my Cypress Pointe the mix of the original 3 story, 3 bedroom, deeded Cypress Pointe Resort (Phase 1) - a Gold Crown resort and the 4 and 5 story, 1, 2 and 3 bedroom deeded/UDI/club whatever else they sold  Silver Crown Cypress Pointe Grande Villas causes no end of confusion. Add to that the fact that the two resorts share common areas but not units and is it any wonder a guest doesn't know what they are getting?  It seems like a great idea when it's all new but it can be a mess when the developer is gone and the resorts have to stand on their own.


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## kdrew (Mar 15, 2007)

johnmfaeth said:


> Hi Ken,
> 
> As a Castle owner, like any outsider, you will have to pay the daily use fee to get access to the Beach Club Beach. We like our beach for ourselves, just like our Marriott neighbors next door. Considerable efforts have been made to police this as we did have an issue last year with taxi's dropping off cruise ship passengers to use our private resort.
> 
> ...



John:

So there years of having sister resorts is now dead, apparently? That is very sad considering that the Beach Club actually has some Castle funds invested into it thanks to Equivest and FF. While I agree that one should not "dump cruise ship" groups onto the beach, it was my understanding that the problem was locals that lived up the road that were causing issues.

The minimal amount of folks visiting from the castle was not the issue. That said, if the resort can sustain the restaurant and the other amenities with its owner base, then so be it. I, for one, would think that the Beach Club would want owners from the Castle to still come and visit.

I am sure that the cost to employ a full time guard is worth it to keep the beach private and that owners are fine with this additional cost to their budget. 'Tis sad  that it has come to this but knowing the players involved, it is not a surprise.

 

Ken


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## johnmfaeth (Mar 15, 2007)

Hi Ken,

Yup, apparently it's a two way street as BBC/Elysian owners are no longer welcome to use the Castle facilities either.

Luckily, the restaurants at the three resorts are all open to the public. 

Just forwarded an email to our mutual friend Tina with someone who owns at the Castle and wants to join your discussion group. One more voice for the fight.

Good luck, we'll be watching the litigation from the sidelines....

John


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## kdrew (Mar 15, 2007)

johnmfaeth said:


> Hi Ken,
> 
> 
> (text removed)
> ...



 
Since I am actively involved in the litigation as a Board member at the Castle, I can tell you that this is not speculation. It is a possibility. Look at the facts- FF owns all three resorts (the Beach Club, Elysian, and Bluebeard's Castle). It is possible that FF can offer up the Beach Club in a settlement offer. Will it happen? I don't know. Can it happen? Absolutely! 

This is not designed to scare people at all. It is information and information only. I honestly do not want to own the Beach Club as a Castle Board member. We would prefer the same thing we have been asking for since 2002- a rebuilt resort. The proof is there that funds were taken by developers. I have maintained all along that I do not blame FF for all that is wrong but they did buy the liability when they bought the resort. They also lied to owners after they found out what had been going on and tried to shortchange owners with their initial offer. Sadly, it could have been handled much better than it was.

There is still hope that cooler heads will prevail and a creative solution is proposed to allow both parties to move forward with what they want- owners having a quality vacation destination and FF to make all the money they want to make.

Pretty simple if you ask me! 



Ken


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## johnmfaeth (Mar 15, 2007)

We share the same desires for the Castle, I'm not an owner but do still recognize you folks as historical "cousins".

But the chances of FF giving away on of its best selling showpieces for points sales is about the same as Paris Hilton staying at a Motel 6 

Not to mention what would you do with it? You need cash....

John


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## Carolinian (Mar 15, 2007)

timeos2 said:


> This type of situation was to be expected when you have two parties fighting each other rather than coming to a reasonable agreement for the good of the resort. Both sides have made offers, mistakes, played the blame game  and now are hurting everyone. There are no winners but plenty of losers.



The HOA's have offered binding arbitration, and it is unFairfield that has refused.  I think that tells you a lot about where the merits lie.


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