# Don't drown on vacation



## alwysonvac (Feb 26, 2017)

*For non-residents, drowning is the leading cause of injury-related deaths ahead of falls, car crashes and other causes *

From http://health.hawaii.gov/injuryprevention/home/drowning-prevention/information/
_Drowning is the 5th leading cause of fatal injuries in Hawaii, with 385 drowning fatalities occurring during the 5-year period from 2010-2014, averaging 57 per year.  Among non-residents during this time period, drownings were the 3rd leading cause of any type of death, behind heart disease and cancer, and the leading cause of injury-related death, ahead of suicide, falls, motor vehicle crashes, and other causes.   Compared to non-residents (183), there were slightly less resident drowning deaths during this time period (176), mostly while swimming, free diving, and unknown activity. Most non-resident drowning deaths occurred while snorkeling, swimming and unknown activity. The rate of fatal ocean drowning for non-residents in Hawaii is about eight times higher than for residents.  Kauai has the highest ten year rate (/100,000) of total (resident and non-resident) fatal ocean drownings (82.5), followed by Maui (64.6), Big Island (51.8) and Oahu (27.2)._

_For every fatal drowning, it is estimated that 13 non-fatal drownings occur, some of which may be associated with long term disability.  In addition to the pain and suffering, the “comprehensive effects of drowning include the economic loss (victim’s productivity loss and the expenses relating to the event) and the value of lost quality of life associated with the death or injury.” (Lifeguard Effectiveness: A Report of the Working Group, CDC 2001).  The United States Lifesaving Association estimates that that one percent of the total rescues made by lifeguards would have resulted in a drowning death in the absence of lifeguards.   In 2015 alone, county ocean lifeguards in the state of Hawaii reported performing over 4,000 ocean rescues._

_There were 49 drowning deaths to children 0-18 years old during the ten-year period of 2005-2014. This made drowning the 2nd leading cause of injury-related mortality among children under 18 years of age over that time period, behind only deaths among automobile occupants (54), and ahead of suicides (45), suffocations (mostly (34 deaths) among infants), homicides (29), and pedestrian (27) and motorcycle/moped crashes (14). 21 of these deaths were in the ocean/saltwater, 15 in a swimming pool, 7 in bathtubs, 2 in rivers/streams, and 4 unknown or other water environment.

*Q: What other things can I do to help keep myself and my family safe?*
*A:*  Listed is a summary of drowning contributory factors and preventive actions: (Drowning: Prevention, Rescue and Treatment 2014)

Contributory Factors:

currents
waves
off-shore winds
pre-existing disease
underwater entanglement
bottom surface gradient and stability
water transparency
impeded visibility
lack of parental supervision
poor or inadequate equipment
overloading of boats
overestimation of skills and lack of local knowledge
cold
alcohol use

_
http://www.civilbeat.org/projects/dying-for-vacation/
http://www.teok.com/drowning-deaths-in-kauai-ocean-shoreline-waters/
http://www.lyslaw.com/Blog/2014/November/8-Tips-To-Prevent-Drowning-On-Your-Hawaii-Vacati.aspx


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## DeniseM (Feb 26, 2017)

I have zero data, but when I read articles about visitors drowning in Hawaii, a large percentage of them seem to be over 50, so my guess is that physical condition is a significant contributing factor.


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## slip (Feb 26, 2017)

A lot of people who live around the ocean have no clue of the power of the ocean or how dangerous it really can be. You. Can get into trouble very quickly.


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## BocaBoy (Feb 27, 2017)

alwysonvac said:


> _For every fatal drowning, it is estimated that 13 non-fatal drownings occur, some of which may be associated with long term disability._


I thought drowning by definition was a fatal event.


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## davidvel (Feb 27, 2017)

slip said:


> A lot of people who live around the ocean have no clue of the power of the ocean or how dangerous it really can be. You. Can get into trouble very quickly.


From the statistics, it appears about 1/2 of the drownings are not in the ocean.


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## slip (Feb 27, 2017)

davidvel said:


> From the statistics, it appears about 1/2 of the drownings are not in the ocean.



That makes sense too because of flash flooding is common on Hawaii.


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## Ty1on (Feb 27, 2017)

BocaBoy said:


> I thought drowning by definition was a fatal event.



Yup.  Like murder by deadly weapon.  Is there such thing as murder by non-deadly weapon?


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## davidvel (Feb 27, 2017)

slip said:


> That makes sense too because of flash flooding is common on Hawaii.


Lots of children, pools, and parents drinking as well.


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## jehb2 (Feb 27, 2017)

We once saw a lifeguard try to convince a foreign tourist not to boogie board at Sandy Beach.  We walked a little way down the beach and back, maybe 10 minutes. When we got back we saw the man laid out on the beach.  The lifeguards were trying to help him. EMS was on its way.  The man had broken his neck.


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## x3 skier (Feb 27, 2017)

A non fatal drowning? Is that like a non fatal poisoning? I have no clue but might it be someone who gets significant water in the lungs and loses consciousness but doesn't die?

Cheers


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## davidvel (Feb 27, 2017)

x3 skier said:


> A non fatal drowning? Is that like a non fatal poisoning? I have no clue but might it be someone who gets significant water in the lungs and loses consciousness but doesn't die?
> 
> Cheers


I always understood drowning to= death:


> _verb_
> past tense: *drowned*; past participle: *drowned*
> 
> 
> ...


Not all poisonings are fatal.


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## DavidnRobin (Feb 27, 2017)

I learned my lesson on potentially drowning, and now wear a snorkel vest (type that inflates if needed) even though it looks geeky.

Many years ago, I got pulled out by a tough current at Poipu beach in Kauai after one of my flippers came off. I picked up a snorkel vest soon after that incident.  Recently, going around Watermelon Cay (on St John, USVI) we got caught in a brutal current (Full Moon) - luckily Robin was able to hold onto me while I inflated the vest and we just floated away until the charter captain came to pick us up. Another in our group almost drowned - luckily another Tugger was able to rescue her - otherwise it could/would have ended badly.
I also carry a whistle on the vest since the charter captain was not paying attention and could not hear us yelling.
Be safe - sh*t can go bad crazy fast.


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## dioxide45 (Feb 27, 2017)

DavidnRobin said:


> I learned my lesson on potentially drowning, and now wear a snorkel vest (type that inflates if needed) even though it looks geeky.
> 
> Many years ago, I got pulled out by a tough current at Poipu beach in Kauai after one of my flippers came off. I picked up a snorkel vest soon after that incident.  Recently, going around Watermelon Cay (on St John, USVI) we got caught in a brutal current (Full Moon) - luckily Robin was able to hold onto me while I inflated the vest and we just floated away until the charter captain came to pick us up. Another in our group almost drowned - luckily another Tugger was able to rescue her - otherwise it could/would have ended badly.
> I also carry a whistle on the vest since the charter captain was not paying attention and could not hear us yelling.
> Be safe - sh*t can go bad crazy fast.


The problem is that a snorkel vest is not intended to be a life saving device. It usually says so somewhere on the vest. It will not work like a life jacket and reliably hold your head above water should you somehow lose consciousness. A snorkel vest is meant to assist with flotation with your face submerged while snorkeling. You should not rely on it to help you in a drowning situation. If there is no one around, you may not have a chance to inflate the vest.


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## DavidnRobin (Feb 27, 2017)

dioxide45 said:


> The problem is that a snorkel vest is not intended to be a life saving device. It usually says so somewhere on the vest. It will not work like a life jacket and reliably hold your head above water should you somehow lose consciousness. A snorkel vest is meant to assist with flotation with your face submerged while snorkeling. You should not rely on it to help you in a drowning situation. If there is no one around, you may not have a chance to inflate the vest.



You are correct - yet, for me - it works pretty well (it is more about resting to prevent over-exertion - that can lead to issues in the water) - but if I were to have a heart attack and pass out (most likely risk) - well... that would suck. Should also be afraid of sharks, car crashes, getting shot, cancer... (actually these scare me as well).  My snorkel vest allows me to dive down.  I have only inflated it a few times - mostly to give Robin a break on long snorkels.  It definitely will not prevent drowning, but has certainly kept normal situations from going wrong.

I had a go-pro going during our Watermelon Cay snorkel - showing how fast it can go bad.

If one is concerned - they should definitely not use an inflatable snorkel vest - thanks for the clarification.

btw - I also use straps with my flippers - these are also great.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## DavidnRobin (Mar 2, 2017)

I found a photo of inflatable snorkel vest and whistle (~$50)
As mentioned - this is not intended as a life saving vest (NOT A FLOATATION DEVICE).  The Westin STJ, did not allow me to wear it on their snorkel charter- we were required to take floatations device. However, it is comforting to wear (vs nothing).


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## DavidnRobin (Mar 2, 2017)

As in... times like these - off Airport Beach (WKORV), Maui


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## dioxide45 (Mar 2, 2017)

DavidnRobin said:


> View attachment 3420
> I found a photo of inflatable snorkel vest and whistle.
> As mentioned - this is not intended as a life saving vest (NOT A FLOATATION DEVICE).  The Westin STJ, did not allow me to wear it on their snorkel charter- we were required to take floatations device. However, it is comforting to wear (vs nothing).


A whistle is also a great thing to have while snorkeling. We bought ours separately, but they clip on to our snorkel vests.


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## VegasBella (Mar 2, 2017)

BocaBoy said:


> I thought drowning by definition was a fatal event.





x3 skier said:


> A non fatal drowning? Is that like a non fatal poisoning? I have no clue but might it be someone who gets significant water in the lungs and loses consciousness but doesn't die?



That's because it used to be that people only talked about drowning when it involved death. But recently the term has changed in order to highlight the dangers. The WHO explains:

"Drowning is a major global public health problem. Effective prevention of drowning requires programmes and policies that address known risk factors throughout the world. Surveillance, however, has been hampered by the lack of a uniform and internationally accepted definition that permits all relevant cases to be counted. To develop a new definition, an international consensus procedure was conducted. Experts in clinical medicine, injury epidemiology, prevention and rescue from all over the world participated in a series of 'electronic' discussions and face-to-face workshops. The suitability of previous definitions and the major requirements of a new definition were intensely debated.* The consensus was that the new definition should include both cases of fatal and nonfatal drowning.* After considerable dialogue and debate, the following definition was adopted: “*Drowning is the process of experiencing respiratory impairment from submersion/immersion in liquid*.” Drowning outcomes should be classified as: death, morbidity, and no morbidity. There was also consensus that the terms wet, dry, active, passive, silent, and secondary drowning should no longer be used. Thus a simple, comprehensive, and internationally accepted definition of drowning has been developed. Its use should support future activities in drowning surveillance worldwide, and lead to more reliable and comprehensive epidemiological information on this global, and frequently preventable, public health problem."

http://www.who.int/bulletin/volumes/83/11/vanbeeck1105abstract/en/


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## davidvel (Mar 3, 2017)

VegasBella said:


> That's because it used to be that people only talked about drowning when it involved death. But recently the term has changed in order to highlight the dangers. The WHO explains:
> 
> "Drowning is a major global public health problem. Effective prevention of drowning requires programmes and policies that address known risk factors throughout the world. Surveillance, however, has been hampered by the lack of a uniform and internationally accepted definition that permits all relevant cases to be counted. To develop a new definition, an international consensus procedure was conducted. Experts in clinical medicine, injury epidemiology, prevention and rescue from all over the world participated in a series of 'electronic' discussions and face-to-face workshops. The suitability of previous definitions and the major requirements of a new definition were intensely debated.* The consensus was that the new definition should include both cases of fatal and nonfatal drowning.* After considerable dialogue and debate, the following definition was adopted: “*Drowning is the process of experiencing respiratory impairment from submersion/immersion in liquid*.” Drowning outcomes should be classified as: death, morbidity, and no morbidity. There was also consensus that the terms wet, dry, active, passive, silent, and secondary drowning should no longer be used. Thus a simple, comprehensive, and internationally accepted definition of drowning has been developed. Its use should support future activities in drowning surveillance worldwide, and lead to more reliable and comprehensive epidemiological information on this global, and frequently preventable, public health problem."
> 
> http://www.who.int/bulletin/volumes/83/11/vanbeeck1105abstract/en/


It's like the "new math".


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## WinniWoman (Mar 3, 2017)

I literally almost drowned when in Hawaii (Kauai) back in 2002. I was 46 years old. There for our 25th wedding anniversary. It was in Poipu.

My husband went on an ATV excursion while my son and I decided to go to the beach. I was in the water for quite some time with my son, snorkeling and following the fish. I ended up in water over my head. Not normally an issue as I can swim. But, for a reason to this day I am not sure of, all of a sudden I could not swim. My body was chilled. There were I guess those undercurrents or whatever you call them. I tried to swim back. I was almost frozen in place.

My son- who was 14- kept circling around me and encouraging me. He wanted me to hold onto him, but I refused, thinking there was no way I was going to pull him down with me. I tried to yell out help to people on the beach- but I couldn't muster the air to be loud. I started to go under a little and take in a little water.

My son decided to swim behind me and "push" me in. That is how I got back to where I could stand up. After recovering on shore, I made the decision to go back in or I would forever be afraid of the water- which I have always loved. 'Till this day. I will not go in any water over my head unless I have a tube or life jacket, or am in a pool and close to the side walls.

This event actually left a very strong, almost spiritual impression upon me as I was at a period in my life where I was struggling with some issues.  I wrote my thoughts and feelings in my journal and many years later burned it and moved on.


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## x3 skier (Mar 3, 2017)

VegasBella said:


> That's because it used to be that people only talked about drowning when it involved death. But recently the term has changed in order to highlight the dangers. The WHO explains:
> 
> "Drowning is a major global public health problem. Effective prevention of drowning requires programmes and policies that address known risk factors throughout the world. Surveillance, however, has been hampered by the lack of a uniform and internationally accepted definition that permits all relevant cases to be counted. To develop a new definition, an international consensus procedure was conducted. Experts in clinical medicine, injury epidemiology, prevention and rescue from all over the world participated in a series of 'electronic' discussions and face-to-face workshops. The suitability of previous definitions and the major requirements of a new definition were intensely debated.* The consensus was that the new definition should include both cases of fatal and nonfatal drowning.* After considerable dialogue and debate, the following definition was adopted: “*Drowning is the process of experiencing respiratory impairment from submersion/immersion in liquid*.” Drowning outcomes should be classified as: death, morbidity, and no morbidity. There was also consensus that the terms wet, dry, active, passive, silent, and secondary drowning should no longer be used. Thus a simple, comprehensive, and internationally accepted definition of drowning has been developed. Its use should support future activities in drowning surveillance worldwide, and lead to more reliable and comprehensive epidemiological information on this global, and frequently preventable, public health problem."
> 
> http://www.who.int/bulletin/volumes/83/11/vanbeeck1105abstract/en/



Thanks for that. I now know fatal and non fatal versions of poisoning and drowning are similar.

Cheers


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## DavidnRobin (Mar 3, 2017)

Interesting - I had heard about secondary drowning (from lung damage) which often goes unrecognized for those that have aspirated water into their lungs. Not unlike smoke damage from fire.


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## MuranoJo (Mar 3, 2017)

mpumilia said:


> I literally almost drowned when in Hawaii (Kauai) back in 2002. I was 46 years old. There for our 25th wedding anniversary. It was in Poipu...



I've had a few close calls myself which have resulted in my purchasing a ScubaPro snorkeling vest.  
My hubby is a stronger swimmer than I and one time I remember him luring me out beyond a reef & into open, very deep water.  We were with a tourist snorkeling boat (aka Cattle Boat) and probably too far away when a storm came up.  The boat began tooting to get us back in and it was a scary struggle to rush back against the high waves.


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## BocaBoy (Mar 4, 2017)

VegasBella said:


> That's because it used to be that people only talked about drowning when it involved death. But recently the term has changed in order to highlight the dangers.


It sure hasn't changed in any of the dictionaries I have access to, nor in the definitions when I Google it.


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## Chrispee (Mar 4, 2017)

BocaBoy said:


> It sure hasn't changed in any of the dictionaries I have access to, nor in the definitions when I Google it.



Here's a link to the explanation on the WHO website: http://www.who.int/mediacentre/factsheets/fs347/en/


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## BocaBoy (Mar 5, 2017)

Chrispee said:


> Here's a link to the explanation on the WHO website: http://www.who.int/mediacentre/factsheets/fs347/en/


I know the WHO says this, they were cited earlier in this thread.  But it is not widely accepted, at least not yet.  It is not even in the dictionaries I looked at and it goes counter to long established definitions.  That is all I am saying.


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## dioxide45 (Mar 5, 2017)

Someone could be drowning and not die. Someone who has drowned would be dead.


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## taffy19 (Mar 5, 2017)

I had a close call once in HI many years ago.  We saw a tour boat and it didn't look far so I decided to swim towards it because I assumed that snorkeling was much better there.  We didn't see much where we were close to the shore.  I don't even remember what beach it was but near Wailea or Peruse Bay.

When I swam back, I drifted further away and closer to the rocks and I got so panicked.  I was lucky that a kayaker came by and I asked him for help.  He came over and got me back to the beach.  He had offered to bring my husband back too but he refused.  He struggled so much and when he finally came out of the water, he collapsed.

My brother drowned and they didn't find him for ten days.

PS.  My brother drowned many years ago and now I have a much higher regard for the ocean.


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## BocaBoy (Mar 6, 2017)

dioxide45 said:


> Someone could be drowning and not die. Someone who has drowned would be dead.


OK, that makes sense.  Kind of like someone was dying from some disease and makes an unexpected recovery.  You can be "dying" and then actually recover.  But how can there possibly be accurate statistics on people who are "drowning" but do not die?


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## Tamaradarann (Nov 3, 2017)

jehb2 said:


> We once saw a lifeguard try to convince a foreign tourist not to boogie board at Sandy Beach.  We walked a little way down the beach and back, maybe 10 minutes. When we got back we saw the man laid out on the beach.  The lifeguards were trying to help him. EMS was on its way.  The man had broken his neck.



We were on the North Shore of Oahu in April with our Daughter, Son-in-Law and Teenage Grandchildren.  Both Grandchildren swim really well; the oldest was on a swim teem for 3 years.  This was their first trip to Hawaii so I thought they would want to go in the big waves water. (They had already experienced the little waves in Waikiki)  The waves were pretty big that day and breaking right near the beach.  There were caution signs up but there were plenty of people in the water although not surfing.   The Grandchildren were very cautious at the water's edge and hesitated to go in.  After a few minutes the Life Guard came over and told us that they shouldn't go in.  He noticed how hesitant the children were and said that the surf today was not to be played with.  I love when the Grandchildren are smarter than Grand Mommy and Papa.


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## davidvel (Nov 3, 2017)

Tamaradarann said:


> We were on the North Shore of Oahu in April with our Daughter, Son-in-Law and Teenage Grandchildren.  Both Grandchildren swim really well; the oldest was on a swim teem for 3 years.  This was their first trip to Hawaii so I thought they would want to go in the big waves water. (They had already experienced the little waves in Waikiki)  The waves were pretty big that day and breaking right near the beach.  There were caution signs up but there were plenty of people in the water although not surfing.   The Grandchildren were very cautious at the water's edge and hesitated to go in.  After a few minutes the Life Guard came over and told us that they shouldn't go in.  He noticed how hesitant the children were and said that the surf today was not to be played with.  I love when the Grandchildren are smarter than Grand Mommy and Papa.


Its a bit counter intuitive, but "shorebreak" as you describe it, is likely the most deadly type of wave. People are often scared to go "outside" to the big waves, but these inshore waves don't seem as scary to people. Problem is they are very powerful and can knock you down and pull you under and out quickly. As opposed to waves in deeper water, even smaller shorebreak can slam you to the ground knocking you unconscious.  This is what happens at divorce beach in Cabo.


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## artringwald (Nov 3, 2017)

davidvel said:


> Its a bit counter intuitive, but "shorebreak" as you describe it, is likely the most deadly type of wave. People are often scared to go "outside" to the big waves, but these inshore waves don't seem as scary to people. Problem is they are very powerful and can knock you down and pull you under and out quickly. As opposed to waves in deeper water, even smaller shorebreak can slam you to the ground knocking you unconscious.  This is what happens at divorce beach in Cabo.


My sister and wife got knocked down at Haena Beach Park several years ago when a wave came in fast and further than all the other waves.. They laughed about it, but were fortunate that they didn't get pulled out. They didn't follow the rule "never turn your back to the ocean".


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## tugcccsp (Nov 5, 2017)

I have found that when snorkeling for more than an hour in the Hawaiian waters, I get chilled.  I use a shorty wet suit even during the fall hot times.  I have never regretted it.  It helps retain core body temperature and offers buoyancy for times when I want to relax.  I use a blowup vest when I snorkel far out at the points.  They do seem geeky, but are a smart choice.


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## VegasBella (Nov 6, 2017)

BocaBoy said:


> I know the WHO says this, they were cited earlier in this thread.  But it is not widely accepted, at least not yet.  It is not even in the dictionaries I looked at and it goes counter to long established definitions.  That is all I am saying.



The primary reason the WHO decided to change their definition was precisely to help make it more widely accepted. When we use different terminology to talk about the same cause of harm merely because they have different outcomes, we distract from prevention of harm. 



dioxide45 said:


> Someone could be drowning and not die. Someone who has drowned would be dead.


No, it's like poison. Humans can can survive food poisoning or die from food poisoning. Either way they have been poisoned. 
Humans can survive drowning or die from drowning. Either way they have drowned.

The verb of what happened to them is defined by the experience, not by the final outcome. The fact that many people can now survive harmful experiences - with the assistance of medical intervention - does not undo the harmful experience.

Example: two boys drowned in a local water park, one in the Summer of 2016, one in the Summer of 2017. The incidents were very similar - the wave pool at the same water park. Both were not properly supervised by the adults with them; neither wore a life jacket. Both were pulled out of the water by lifeguards and given CPR and rushed to the hospital. The first boy survived with extreme brain damage. The second boy did not survive. They BOTH drowned.


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## daventrina (Nov 6, 2017)

Keep in mind that one can drown in as little as 20 seconds.


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## daventrina (Nov 6, 2017)

dioxide45 said:


> Someone could be drowning and not die. Someone who has drowned would be dead.


Unless they are  revived in which case they would no longer be dead ...


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