# Deed vs. Trust



## dwg29 (Sep 9, 2014)

My wife and I are really interested in getting a Wyndham timeshare. We have stayed at the Ocean Boulevard resort in Myrtle Beach and loved it. Bought the vacation on eBay. We took the tour while there and loved it. Would really like to buy one but we can not have a deed due to complications with taxes and a home business. So they said we can do a trust timeshare instead. So our question is what is the difference in a deeded timeshare and a trust timeshare? Would a trust timeshare still be worth it? Also, we see all these timeshares for sale like here and on eBay that have deeds, can those be converted to a trust if needed?


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## Bigrob (Sep 9, 2014)

I am not sure I understand the issue with having a timeshare ownership secured by a deed, versus membership in a travel club that secures your interest in a trust, but there is already a Wyndham-based product that provides what you're looking for - Club Wyndham Access (CWA). Points associated to CWA contracts spend exactly like points associated to a deeded timeshare. The only difference is that you have Advanced Reservation Priority (ARP) at ALL resort locations that participate in CWA, versus specific ARP at a single resort. 

Myrtle Beach is a key area where owning CWA can make a lot of sense, because CWA maintenance fees are "average" where most of the Myrtle Beach resorts have above average maintenance fee rates. However, you do need to be aware that CWA only has a percentage of the units available in inventory at each resort - in some cases and during certain seasons - a very small percentage. So while if you own at Ocean Boulevard, you'd have access to all of the Myrtle Beach inventory  including Seawatch, Towers on the Grove, Westwinds, Cottages, and of course all 4 Towers at OB; with CWA you'd have ARP access to only the CWA portion of those resorts during that timeframe. 

CWA is ownership in a trust that owns at approximately 70 Wyndham resorts. As such, you have less exposure to Special Assessments (more likely to have a portion of an SA; less likely for it to be material since it's spread across the entire portfolio of holdings); you have an "average" MF that is more stable than MF's at a single resort (particularly an oceanfront resort); and of course the ARP rights at many resorts. 

Most CWA resale contracts are running around half a penny a point. Sometimes you can catch one cheaper than that. That would probably be your best bet.


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## pacodemountainside (Sep 9, 2014)

From limited info provided sounds like you need expert local legal advice pertaining to your specific  situation.

A  deed cannot be  converted  to a Trust, but can be put in  a Trust.

A lying, commissioned sales weasel is the last person you would want to get  any advice from.


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## bogey21 (Sep 9, 2014)

dwg29 said:


> Would really like to buy one but we can not have a deed due to complications with taxes and a home business.



I don't know what your issue re a deed is but my recommendation is that you just rent and don't worry about it.  One of the benefits of renting is that you generally can get the Week you want.  It is just a matter of price.  Another benefit of renting is that there is no cost in years you don't take a vacation/trip.

George


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## uscav8r (Sep 9, 2014)

dwg29 said:


> My wife and I are really interested in getting a Wyndham timeshare. We have stayed at the Ocean Boulevard resort in Myrtle Beach and loved it. Bought the vacation on eBay. We took the tour while there and loved it. Would really like to buy one but we can not have a deed due to complications with taxes and a home business. So they said we can do a trust timeshare instead. So our question is what is the difference in a deeded timeshare and a trust timeshare? Would a trust timeshare still be worth it? Also, we see all these timeshares for sale like here and on eBay that have deeds, can those be converted to a trust if needed?


This sounds like a sales ploy to push you into Club Wyndham Access (CWA) which is a membership in a club/trust and you do not directly own the underlying deeded property. The trust does.

This is COMPLETELY different issue from the question: "Should I own my timeshares in a personal or family revocable trust?"

While you can consult all the legal entities, tax attorneys, etc., on how your personal tax situation and home business affect your ability to own deeded property, I suspect they will basically tell you this is BS (for a fee, of course). 

Why does this not pass the smell test? Well, ask yourself this: Does your tax/home business situation prevent you from owning your home? After all, that is deeded property.

I am not a lawyer or legal expert, but IMHO the salesperson seems to be fabricating a problem that he/she can solve for you.

The question on whether to buy deeded Wyndham property versus CWA membership is a personal case-by-case decision, mostly influenced by maintenance fees, need to have ARP at a given property, etc.


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## massvacationer (Sep 9, 2014)

OP

And for most buyers, it is better to buy resale than to buy directly from Wyndham....you will save thousands of dollars.


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## Knsierras (May 20, 2016)

*Deed vs Trust at Wyndham Bonnet Creek Orlando*

Greetings,

The sales representative during our annual "owners update" at Bonnet Creek in Orlando, attempted to convince us to move our Bonnet Creek ownership (we own since 2002) to Wyndam Club Access. 

I have a general understanding about ARP, the lower maintenance fees and the assessments but I can't really comprehend why Wyndham wants us to move our points to the trust.  I can't help to believe that we own a piece of property that Wyndham really wants or need.    Yes, money is a factor...In order to transfer our ownership to Access, we have to purchase small package which will cost a lot of money. They make it look that it will be a huge benefit for us. 

It is my understanding  that Bonnet Creek is the only  deeded Wyndham resort located inside Disney World Fl.  

Should I consider moving my ownership from Wyndham Select to Access?  Is it worth it?

Thank you


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## Sandi Bo (May 20, 2016)

Sales will tell you anything to make a sale.  

I can tell you that my father, who's ownership I now manage, had deeded property and got talked into exchanging for Wyndham Club Access (to lower his maintenance fees).  

A year later, unhappy with his Wyndham Club Access maintenance fees (that weren't as low as he expected) he exchanged again, which always includes a purchase,  so that he is back with deeded properties. 

My rough estimate is that those little exchanges cost him about $40,000 and he owns an additional 400K points. He was already platinum, so points were not needed to qualify him for any benefit level.  

My advice... take your $100 gift card and run!!!!


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## uscav8r (May 20, 2016)

Knsierras said:


> Greetings,
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Question: is your Bonnet Creek a developer purchase? If so, how big is the contract?


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## YodaIAm (Jan 18, 2017)

Knsierras said:


> *Deed vs Trust at Wyndham Bonnet Creek Orlando*
> 
> Greetings,
> 
> ...



NO!!! If you haven't switched your ownership to a membership already..DO NOT DO IT!!


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## YodaIAm (Jan 18, 2017)

uscav8r said:


> This sounds like a sales ploy to push you into Club Wyndham Access (CWA) which is a membership in a club/trust and you do not directly own the underlying deeded property. The trust does.
> 
> This is COMPLETELY different issue from the question: "Should I own my timeshares in a personal or family revocable trust?"
> 
> ...




We bought our OWNERSHIP (as in deeded property at Bonnet Creek) in 2006 before Wyndham bought out Fairfield.  Our ownership transferred ok but each year something changed for the worse. Each time we would go to an"owners update" you could easily pick out owners such as ourselves and members who didn't hold deeded property.  Deeded owners were furious because we were being pressured HARD to "just put our deeds into A trust" as in THEIR trust. Meaning WE would no longer have a deed and would not OWN anything.  

You can buy deeded property regardless if you have a home business or not and it has absolutely nothing to do with your "tax situation".  Ridiculous.  If you are going to buy a membership, DO NOT do it with Wyndham.  You CAN tell the sales person you will ONLY consider buying a deeded ownership with them.  JMHO


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## Richelle (Jan 18, 2017)

dwg29 said:


> My wife and I are really interested in getting a Wyndham timeshare. We have stayed at the Ocean Boulevard resort in Myrtle Beach and loved it. Bought the vacation on eBay. We took the tour while there and loved it. Would really like to buy one but we can not have a deed due to complications with taxes and a home business. So they said we can do a trust timeshare instead. So our question is what is the difference in a deeded timeshare and a trust timeshare? Would a trust timeshare still be worth it? Also, we see all these timeshares for sale like here and on eBay that have deeds, can those be converted to a trust if needed?



I am not sure if the sales guy is the one telling you that your tax and business issues are keeping you from owning deeded property, but you do not have to buy into CWA to have your deed in a trust.  You can set up your own trust and have your deed added to it.  I am not sure of the specifics, but there is tons of information on how to do it, if you do a search.  Here is one article:

http://www.redweek.com/resources/articles/passing-on-your-timeshare

State laws are different, so you may want to consult with an attorney on how to set it up.  There are some that may set it up for you, for a flat fee.

This thread is over two years old, so I am not sure if the OP is still watching it.


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## iaminak (Jan 18, 2017)

Knsierras said:


> *Deed vs Trust at Wyndham Bonnet Creek Orlando*
> 
> Greetings,
> 
> ...



No, it isn't a deed they need back, they are lying to make another sale. I just replied on your other post about that I just had the exact opposite happen to me. I own all CWA and last month had a salesman try to convince me that I needed to buy some more points and convert it all to Bonnet Creek.


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## Jan M. (Jan 19, 2017)

At our infamous Bonnet Creek "update" about 4 years ago we had the sales manager tell us that our Presidential Reserve ownership was worthless to us because we weren't using it for all the other advantages and we should trade it in for an additional purchase and get Club Wyndham Access. Presidential Reserve at Panama City Beach was sold out and apparently she didn't realize she had said in my hearing that she could sell it in one phone call. They will tell you anything so believe nothing that comes out of their mouths until you can verify it, as in see it in writing on something official that you can take with you.

The next time we were at an update we joked about our "worthless" Presidential Reserve ownership and ended up explaining to the sales person about our experience. He wasn't a newbie sales person and looked stunned. He asked us to wait while he got his bosses which included the regional director/bigwig who happened to be there that day. After hearing our story the bigwig asked us a few questions. He looked livid which surprised us as we thought having us tell the bigshots was all just for show. While we had been waiting the sales person had pulled some of our history so when the bigwig told them to track down the information on that update he already had it. Apparently there are some things that will get a sales person or manager in trouble for saying.


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## Richelle (Jan 19, 2017)

Jan M. said:


> At our infamous Bonnet Creek "update" about 4 years ago we had the sales manager tell us our Presidential Reserve ownership was worthless and we should trade it in for an additional purchase and get Club Wyndham Access. They will tell you anything so believe nothing that comes out of their mouths until you can verify it, as in see it in writing on something official that you can take with you.
> 
> The next time we were at an update we joked about our "worthless" Presidential Reserve ownership and ended up explaining to the sales person about our experience. He wasn't a newbie sales person and looked stunned. He asked us to wait while he got his bosses which included the regional director/bigwig who happened to be there that day. After hearing our story the bigwig asked us a few questions. He looked livid which surprised us as we thought having us tell the bigshots was all just for show. While we had been waiting the sales person had pulled some of our history so when the bigwig told them to track down the information on that update he already had it. Apparently there are some things that will get a sales person or manager in trouble for saying.



If that was all for show, it sounds like it was a good one. I think I would be livid with someone telling me, that something I spent a lot of money on, was useless. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## iaminak (Jan 19, 2017)

Jan M. said:


> Apparently there are some things that will get a sales person or manager in trouble for saying.



Do you really believe that?!?  I think it's just one more sales ploy to get you to trust them.  I've had the same thing happen when I've said I won't trust anything they say and they say why and I go into something I was lied to about in the past.  Same exact scenario.  Salesman appears outraged and gets the manager who then looks equally mad and looks up the persons name and says it will be handled...  then, they want to make it up to you by offering a really good deal...  better than any price ever offered.  The only thing more transparent is how they all act when they see what your last purchase price was.  They must have a special training to get that shocked look on their face while saying "wow, I've never seen them go that low". Please


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## Jan M. (Jan 20, 2017)

iaminak said:


> Do you really believe that?!?  I think it's just one more sales ploy to get you to trust them.  I've had the same thing happen when I've said I won't trust anything they say and they say why and I go into something I was lied to about in the past.  Same exact scenario.  Salesman appears outraged and gets the manager who then looks equally mad and looks up the persons name and says it will be handled...  then, they want to make it up to you by offering a really good deal...  better than any price ever offered.  The only thing more transparent is how they all act when they see what your last purchase price was.  They must have a special training to get that shocked look on their face while saying "wow, I've never seen them go that low". Please



This happened at the very start of our update and the sales person hadn't even had time to get into anything with us. The bigwig apologized and instructed the sales person to get us our gift and let us go. That is the only time we ever had an update or sales presentation end early. Also it was just a little under a year after we bought Presidential Reserve so there was no way we were buying anything else. Maybe the bigwig was sharp enough to realize that and decided not to make the sales person waste his time with us.

There were other people around but we weren't speaking loudly and it didn't seem to be a dog and pony show for the benefit of anyone who might have been listening. The bigwig wasn't making a big show of being "mad", he just had that look on his face that you know means heads are going to roll. i know it sure intimidated the sales person; the man went pale! I think what had him so mad was that you never disparage the top of the line product; if anything you want to pump it up. You want Presidential Reserve owners out there telling people how happy you are with this "wonderful" level of ownership. 

.


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## vacationhopeful (Jan 20, 2017)

Wyndham profiles ALL of us .. and it is on their sales' department computer... IMHO.

Some of us are 'marked' as "Do Not Tour"  and we just get our parking pass ASAP. Going to an "update" esp since the "One Stop" checkin procedure is WHAT the computer tells the clerk. Pull the ownership profile is what sales does BEFORE you check in at sales office. You might sent to "gifting" immediately or put into a 'group' presentation or matched to a particular sales person .. but you will be "PROFILED" and your profiled will be updated each and every time you agree at the FIRST stop in the process ..from checkin.

Sales staff is required to show up at 7AM or earlier ... for several reasons. First, is the employee review if their attire and personal appearance up to snuff, not impaired and then, review profile matched to guests with their bosses. If not enough sales staff or YOU are not a GOOD SALES prospect, you will be walked to gifting (rare now) or 'cancelled' via voice mail (we called you to rescheduled). Wyndham does NOT want you 'rubbing elbows' with their 'marks' anymore ... everyone should look like they are buying and happy to spend lots of money. It is all "scripted" and "staged" ... and why you are "walked" out ... and why, they USE separate sales' locales, buildings & floors (and I believe, may 'bug' tables where YOU wait as they get coffee or consult with a manager for inventory). And even have "fake" buyers at a table or two.

Years ago, I was friendly with a "hang tag" woman for several years. She wanted to move up to sales (and did) after passing the state real estate license. She lasted less than 6 months in sales (as did her 8+ year marriage and our friendship). 

I see no benefit in attending a sale's presentation ... for any gift or cash or gift card at any resort. 

And the marketing/sales department has gotten much more LEARNED and SCRIPTED in handling their 'GAME' over the years I have been a Wyndham owner.


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## ronparise (Jan 20, 2017)

vacationhopeful said:


> Wyndham profiles ALL of us .. and it is on their sales' department computer... IMHO.
> 
> Some of us are 'marked' as "Do Not Tour"  and we just get our parking pass ASAP. Going to an "update" esp since the "One Stop" checkin procedure is WHAT the computer tells the clerk. Pull the ownership profile is what sales does BEFORE you check in at sales office. You might sent to "gifting" immediately or put into a 'group' presentation or matched to a particular sales person .. but you will be "PROFILED" and your profiled will be updated each and every time you agree at the FIRST stop in the process ..from checkin.
> 
> ...




Bottom line, like any good sales organization they qualify their prospects.  When I was a stock broker, we were taught to qualify for interest and money. so I asked two questions 1) do you have an interest is tax free income? and 2) If I show you a high quality tax free investment paying XX%, do you have at least $10000 liquid at this time to take advantage of it?  If the answer to either question was no, I would say thank you very much and move on.  

Wyndham is doing much the same thing,  They look at your history and make a decision. Can we sell something to this guy or not... If not they move on.  They dont want to waste time and marketing dollars on  folks that are most likely going to say no.   At least the top people in sales and marketing are pushing that mentality down through the ranks. Of course not everyone complies.


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## Jan M. (Jan 20, 2017)

vacationhopeful said:


> Wyndham profiles ALL of us .. and it is on their sales' department computer... IMHO.
> 
> Some of us are 'marked' as "Do Not Tour"  and we just get our parking pass ASAP. Going to an "update" esp since the "One Stop" checkin procedure is WHAT the computer tells the clerk. Pull the ownership profile is what sales does BEFORE you check in at sales office. You might sent to "gifting" immediately or put into a 'group' presentation or matched to a particular sales person .. but you will be "PROFILED" and your profiled will be updated each and every time you agree at the FIRST stop in the process ..from checkin.
> 
> ...



Oh they definitely are taught and coached in every trick of the trade! 

Around the time they brought out CWA they also were offering the buyback program that was the forerunner for Ovations. My husband who is Mr. Nice Guy finally found his breaking point with that buyback program. He crossed his arms over his chest and said there is no way I'm spending $?k more so I can have this program where you give me 20% of what I paid on what you may or may not take back. I will give it away for free before I ever give it back to you. After having that program pushed on us at a second update and the blatant lies we were told in the previous two updates, something we hadn't experienced in the past, that was enough to make us quit going to updates. 

Later that year we went to Branson on one of those party packages they offer at the annual owners meeting. The only way it is a party is if you make your own party! It did get us to go to Branson for the first time and we had a wonderful time but it was mostly because we stayed additional days on our own. Our package included two big things. The first was dinner at the Chateau. Instead of eating in the lovely restaurant with views of the lake we get ushered into this big interior windowless banquet room that had no atmosphere whatsoever. We were assigned seats at round tables seating 8-10 people and our assigned sales reps were seated next to us. Plus there were other Wyndham people there and we had to listen to about 15 minutes of talks from them! The reps were congenial but were definitely trying to chat up "their" people once we were seated. I wasn't at all happy as this was far more than the two hour sales presentation the package required us to attend on the final day so I kept steering the conversation at the table towards asking the others to share their favorite resorts. At that time we had only ever stayed at the resorts in Pompano Beach, Myrtle Beach, Las Vegas and DC and we enjoy hearing about the resorts other people have stayed at and really liked. We like to add those resorts to our bucket list. The sales reps couldn't very well object and all but one who sulked a bit joined in the conversation we were all clearly enjoying. We had our choice of three meals and the food was decent but more like a banquet meal than a nice restaurant meal. I don't know if our experience is typical of the party packages but I expect that it is.


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