# Flagged for no more points purchases



## bendadin (Dec 7, 2018)

What the heck could prompt this?

I called in to make a developer purchase and I was told that they were not allowed to sell me points.

An aside: my sales rep has left Wyndham and I had a price lock


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## grab (Dec 7, 2018)

You doing it through a resort or telesales?
I can not imagine why they would not allow you to make a developer purchase, even more so if you have a price lock deal. Price lock should not go away just because rep did.


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## capital city (Dec 7, 2018)

Have you ever rescinded on a purchase? If so thats my guess even if they have sold you points since then, you mighy have just got flagged late


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## 55plus (Dec 7, 2018)

Sounds to me Wyndham is doing you and your bank account a favor.


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## am1 (Dec 8, 2018)

I was denied purchasing 2 years ago at Bonnet Creek.


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## chapjim (Dec 8, 2018)

am1 said:


> I was denied purchasing 2 years ago at Bonnet Creek.



Interesting, but how about "the rest of the story?"  Do you know why?


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## tschwa2 (Dec 8, 2018)

am1 said:


> I was denied purchasing 2 years ago at Bonnet Creek.


Were you in the audit process at the time which eventually led to the agreement to divest your Wyndham points and never buy again?


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## ecwinch (Dec 8, 2018)

Sounds like you have been put on the "Knows Ron Parise" list.


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## Richelle (Dec 8, 2018)

Hopefully they get a straight answer.


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## Avislo (Dec 9, 2018)

There may be more truth to the statement than you think about the person mentioned.


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## ronparise (Dec 9, 2018)

ecwinch said:


> Sounds like you have been put on the "Knows Ron Parise" list.



Knowing me wouldnt do it.. owning too many points, might


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## bendadin (Dec 9, 2018)

ronparise said:


> Knowing me wouldnt do it.. owning too many points, might



1.5 million

I do have to say that this has given me cause for concern. Maybe we shouldn't put any more money into Wyndham. I'm thinking that we shall just stay where we are. You just never know what Wyndham will do next.


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## grab (Dec 9, 2018)

bendadin said:


> 1.5 million
> 
> I do have to say that this has given me cause for concern. Maybe we shouldn't put any more money into Wyndham. I'm thinking that we shall just stay where we are. You just never know what Wyndham will do next.


I would want the person that told you about this to explain the reason as it seems to me if they flagged you for no more purchases from them they probably flagged you for other things that you need to understand.


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## bnoble (Dec 9, 2018)

That assumes that person (a) knows the reason and (b) is willing to disclose it.


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## tschwa2 (Dec 9, 2018)

ronparise said:


> Knowing me wouldnt do it.. owning too many points, might


Do you have a ball park figure on how many is too many?  

As an outsider looking in, it seemed like owners of 5 million or more or 3 million+ along with using cancel/rebook/upgrade for most of their reservations.     Owners with 2 million or less might have been audited especially if they cancelled a number of reservations and each time their points went up more than they should have but I don't know if they were ultimately forced out.


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## bendadin (Dec 9, 2018)

I've never used credit pool so my points were always returned to their UY.


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## Braindead (Dec 9, 2018)

bendadin said:


> 1.5 million
> 
> I do have to say that this has given me cause for concern. Maybe we shouldn't put any more money into Wyndham. I'm thinking that we shall just stay where we are. You just never know what Wyndham will do next.


I think you will find that this is very temporary.
Way to much advertising on here for one telesales employee has probably resulted in that employees sales to be audited to see everything was on the up with no personal favors or kickbacks of $, the employee is no longer with Wyndham.

It’s not our place to get involved in how Wyndham manages their telesales offices, an individual on here tried to advise or tell Wyndham how telesales should be run

If you try to buy at a resort, you may very well get a different answer.
I really doubt if you will have problems longer term ounce your points purchase is cleared up.

My attorney ounce told me if you want a property purchase or any legal issue slowed down meaning to take longer.
Just get an attorney involved. Keep in mind Wyndham legal would be reviewing your case, thats why it’s taking as long as it is


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## Railman83 (Dec 9, 2018)

bendadin said:


> 1.5 million
> 
> I do have to say that this has given me cause for concern. Maybe we shouldn't put any more money into Wyndham. I'm thinking that we shall just stay where we are. You just never know what Wyndham will do next.


I have two million and just bought one last contract (128k).   All resale, no vip, and no rentals. No price lock, no Ovation use.

 I’ll let you know if I have a problem but I doubt I hit any triggers, other than a lot of points.  


It would be useful to know a bit about how you acquired the points and how you use them.  Perhaps we can reverse engineer the issue.


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## antjmar (Dec 9, 2018)

Railman83 said:


> It would be useful to know a bit about how you acquired the points and how you use them.  Perhaps we can reverse engineer the issue.



Agreed.
I'd like to do it so when the parking pass people at check in ask me to do an update I could reply I'd love to but corporate won't allow me to buy any more points! ;-)


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## tschwa2 (Dec 9, 2018)

It isn't unheard of for owners to selectively be told they are ineligible to attend an update for a gift even if they say they are wanting to buy.  It isn't even uncommon for someone to be told no to an update one week and the next week being told it would be no problem to attend.  
Some owners even are successful in calling and voluntarily put on a list not to be asked to attend although sometimes the parking desk might choose to ignore that notation.

It is very unusual to be told that you can not buy and I would think there would have to be some kind of significant issue for Wyndham to say no to $20,000+.  Bendadin, was it a single agent that told you "no retail points for you" or was it multiple agents.  Was the problem specific to honoring the price lock or added incentives beyond a simple points purchase or was it a problem with a sale at any cost.  It isn't unheard of for sales agents to make deals that ultimately aren't honored by Wyndham.  If the lock or additional "perks" was in the form of a fully executed contract, I would imagine you could go to court to enforce it.  If it was not signed off properly than barring legal compulsion, Wyndham can decide that that particular agent didn't have the ability to make the deal that was offered.


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## Richelle (Dec 9, 2018)

Lots of speculation.  It could be any number of reasons.  I would imagine the sales person is telling them the truth, or at least what he believes is the truth.  What would he gain by telling someone they cannot buy?  I've heard a lot of different sales tactics that they try, but this would be a new (and risky) one.  If the telesales rep didn 't go into detail, it's either because they do not have it, or legal told them to keep their mouth shut.  That's not to say that it's a legal issue.  Legal dictates a lot of what they can and cannot say to owners.  They have a lot more visibility from corporate them the resorts do, because their calls are recorded.  If they say the wrong thing, it could open them up to yet another law suit.  I could speculate all day long, but in the end, someone from Wyndham is going to have to clear this up for them.  There are only two instances I know of, of someone being denied buying points.  The first was during the "Great audit of 2016".  The second is if someone turned all their contracts into Ovations and is no longer an owner.  If you used ovations, but still have contracts, this does not apply.


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## bendadin (Dec 9, 2018)

tschwa2 said:


> It isn't unheard of for owners to selectively be told they are ineligible to attend an update for a gift even if they say they are wanting to buy.  It isn't even uncommon for someone to be told no to an update one week and the next week being told it would be no problem to attend.
> Some owners even are successful in calling and voluntarily put on a list not to be asked to attend although sometimes the parking desk might choose to ignore that notation.
> 
> It is very unusual to be told that you can not buy and I would think there would have to be some kind of significant issue for Wyndham to say no to $20,000+.  Bendadin, was it a single agent that told you "no retail points for you" or was it multiple agents.  Was the problem specific to honoring the price lock or added incentives beyond a simple points purchase or was it a problem with a sale at any cost.  It isn't unheard of for sales agents to make deals that ultimately aren't honored by Wyndham.  If the lock or additional "perks" was in the form of a fully executed contract, I would imagine you could go to court to enforce it.  If it was not signed off properly than barring legal compulsion, Wyndham can decide that that particular agent didn't have the ability to make the deal that was offered.



The sales manager signed off on it and while the price isn't a resort price, it was the going rate for telesales. I can't imagine that they would undo a contract from June, especially since others got a better price per thousand around that time. But then again, it is Wyndham.

I was in NYC in October. Horrible update, but they did see the price lock. I was in Clearwater in November. They never asked. I went to Reunion. They asked but said that they couldn't see an active contract. Bonnet Creek (checked in twice, but never asked and said I was on Do not update list.) I don't ever take a cash card anyway since I usually don't travel with my husband (he travels enough for work.) It is usually just me and my three youngest kids. That is what is ticking me off. So now I've added four of my eight children to a deed and now they can't buy if they choose to in the future. And the kids are aren't old enough to be on a deed might be totally locked out and they are the ones who love the resorts and been to 7 Wyndham resorts this year alone. 

It wasn't until I called into telesales to buy 250k developer that they said I was on the Do Not Sell list. The incident that occurred between NYC and FL was that my telesales rep left the company.

I had also called in because I had 2 contracts get realigned (154k and 400k, ouch!) They took the points but kept the empty buckets in my account (so I can't borrow from my next UY because these 2 empty buckets are in the way and I can only rent.) I was told that IT had to fix that one but when I called in, they didn't even see a ticket or a case number. So Owner's Care does see the Do Not Sell order on my account.

I have always had a screwed up account. I ended up on someone else's account and deeds when Voyager took over. That one locked me out for a month. At least I have the screenshots. It also took 5 weeks to set up my new purchase in June. I had to fight to have them fix the coding for Club Pass and Perks (don't really know why I wanted to pay .02 more/1k.) The wiped out all of my RCI searches in the conversion. I also have the letters with Ownership Summary that is addressed to someone else (that I don't know.) It has all of my contracts AND her contract on that page. So add the loss of points due to realignment and the empty buckets preventing me from using my points and I have to ask myself WHY DO I WANT TO PURCHASE MORE POINTS?


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## Braindead (Dec 9, 2018)

Richelle said:


> Lots of speculation.  It could be any number of reasons.  I would imagine the sales person is telling them the truth, or at least what he believes is the truth.  What would he gain by telling someone they cannot buy?  I've heard a lot of different sales tactics that they try, but this would be a new (and risky) one.  If the telesales rep didn 't go into detail, it's either because they do not have it, or legal told them to keep their mouth shut.  That's not to say that it's a legal issue.  Legal dictates a lot of what they can and cannot say to owners.  They have a lot more visibility from corporate them the resorts do, because their calls are recorded.  If they say the wrong thing, it could open them up to yet another law suit.  I could speculate all day long, but in the end, someone from Wyndham is going to have to clear this up for them.  There are only two instances I know of, of someone being denied buying points.  The first was during the "Great audit of 2016".  The second is if someone turned all their contracts into Ovations and is no longer an owner.  If you used ovations, but still have contracts, this does not apply.


He He used a couple of times. Are you involved in Bendadins problems? You seem to have a lot of first hand knowledge. I know people that couldn’t buy for awhile that didn’t have any of the situations you pointed out. All worked out well for them in the end and their happy owners today


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## Richelle (Dec 9, 2018)

Braindead said:


> He He used a couple of times. Are you involved in Bendadins problems? You seem to have a lot of first hand knowledge. I know people that couldn’t buy for awhile that didn’t have any of the situations you pointed out. All worked out well for them in the end and their happy owners today



I am familiar, but those two scenarios I pointed out had nothing to do with familiarity of her situation in particular.  The audit is common knowledge to anyone that's been here awhile, and the thing about Ovations I learned from the Ovations person I spoke to.  Someone had mentioned that you would be barred from buying more points if you used Ovations.  I called Ovations to get some clarity (Ha!).

I have no doubt she will be fine.  I was merely pointing out the only two scenarios I know of, that would cause someone to be denied buying points.  I have no doubt, there are others, but those were two that i know of, that were not mentioned here.  Neither apply to benadins situation, but it might apply to someone later on who has a similar issue, but with a different cause (maybe they used Ovations).


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## ronparise (Dec 10, 2018)

Richelle said:


> Lots of speculation.  It could be any number of reasons.  I would imagine the sales person is telling them the truth, or at least what he believes is the truth.  What would he gain by telling someone they cannot buy?  I've heard a lot of different sales tactics that they try, but this would be a new (and risky) one.  If the telesales rep didn 't go into detail, it's either because they do not have it, or legal told them to keep their mouth shut.  That's not to say that it's a legal issue.  Legal dictates a lot of what they can and cannot say to owners.  They have a lot more visibility from corporate them the resorts do, because their calls are recorded.  If they say the wrong thing, it could open them up to yet another law suit.  I could speculate all day long, but in the end, someone from Wyndham is going to have to clear this up for them.  There are only two instances I know of, of someone being denied buying points.  The first was during the "Great audit of 2016".  The second is if someone turned all their contracts into Ovations and is no longer an owner.  If you used ovations, but still have contracts, this does not apply.




Now you know three. Well before the 2016 suspensions, I was told the same thing


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## Richelle (Dec 10, 2018)

ronparise said:


> Now you know three. Well before the 2016 suspensions, I was told the same thing



Did they explain why?  Did you have too many points?


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## ilya (Dec 10, 2018)

Richelle said:


> Did they explain why?  Did you have too many points?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk




I think Ron had 30 million points and credit pooled .  I was flagged as well after the "Great Audit".. I was at many resorts and was not asked for an update.. It wasn't until I made a same day  reservation , was asked for an update, probably by mistake .. Once I got to the meeting and they tried to sell me points , which I was considering, they ran it through and I was denied..   Gold VIP status. .Never gave anything in to Ovations..


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## bendadin (Dec 10, 2018)

ilya said:


> I think Ron had 30 million points and credit pooled .  I was flagged as well after the "Great Audit".. I was at many resorts and was not asked for an update.. It wasn't until I made a same day  reservation , was asked for an update, probably by mistake .. Once I got to the meeting and they tried to sell me points , which I was considering, they ran it through and I was denied..   Gold VIP status. .Never gave anything in to Ovations..



Are you still banned?


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## HitchHiker71 (Dec 10, 2018)

We are heading to Kingsgate this coming weekend, so if it has anything to do with the telesales rep that we all used collectively that was known on TUG...I will know heading into this weekend when we check in late Friday night.  I will post back to this thread with an update either Friday night or sometime over the weekend if this thread doesn't uncover the root cause prior to that time.


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## ronparise (Dec 10, 2018)

Richelle said:


> Did they explain why?  Did you have too many points?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


no explanation...except that the note was from the legal department. At least thats what the salesman said

I dont remember how many points I had at the time, but i never had more than 30 million  From 2010 to 2014 I built my accounts to 30 million. After that I was selling and buying about 20 million a year, until august of 2016 when Wyndham finally took me out. at that point I had 10 million points in the accounts and another 10 million in transfer

I had made  a deal somewhere along the way to convert several weeks at the Pahio resorts to VIP eligible points, It cost me $12000 cash and $12000 was financed. Those were my first two Platinum accounts and they gave me 50% discounts and upgrades on all my reservations. Thats when my rental 'business' really took off/   I think it was that deal that woke someone up at Wyndham and caused them to ban me from future purchases

I learned of the ban when I was trying to build another VIP account based on the PIC program. I had purchased a couple of 3 bedroom (RCI) red weeks to PIC, and needed another 500k developer purchased points for another Platinum account. I was working with a corporate sales person who was showing me foreclosed accounts they were selling for the remaining loan balance. I hadnt heard from her in a while so I called...she had left the company and a new guy told me I was banned. It didnt matter, because shortly thereafter I figured out how to become  VIP with all resale contracts.


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## Richelle (Dec 10, 2018)

ronparise said:


> no explanation...except that the note was from the legal department. At least thats what the salesman said
> 
> I dont remember how many points I had at the time, but i never had more than 30 million  From 2010 to 2014 I built my accounts to 30 million. After that I was selling and buying about 20 million a year, until august of 2016 when Wyndham finally took me out. at that point I had 10 million points in the accounts and another 10 million in transfer
> 
> ...



I think I learned how you may have done that. “Think” being the key word. Do you know if they closed that loop hole?  If so, it’s not what I’m thinking. 


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## am1 (Dec 10, 2018)

Richelle said:


> I think I learned how you may have done that. “Think” being the key word. Do you know if they closed that loop hole?  If so, it’s not what I’m thinking.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



I fell into the el cid route.  I purchased them at first because they were cheap with low fees.  No care that they were rtu.  For whatever reason they showed as retail.  Not until the guest fees and later the 10 nightly unit that I had a need for more but at that point I chose not to buy.


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## ecwinch (Dec 10, 2018)

I guess there are two aspects to this.

Does Wyndham have the right to not sell to someone?  There I think the answer is - it depends on the reason. If I really wanted to buy points, I would probably be making some noise alleging discrimination under the Fair Housing Act. Maybe even filing a complaint. At worst it probably results in them disclosing the reason. 

The second part is a little more nuanced. Since you have a price lock - which you effectively cannot exercise -  you could allege breach of contract.


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## Braindead (Dec 10, 2018)

HitchHiker71 said:


> We are heading to Kingsgate this coming weekend, so if it has anything to do with the telesales rep that we all used collectively that was known on TUG...I will know heading into this weekend when we check in late Friday night.  I will post back to this thread with an update either Friday night or sometime over the weekend if this thread doesn't uncover the root cause prior to that time.


Even if you can purchase additional points it really doesn’t give us an answer. The 2016 audit freeze out made no sense as I recall some owners had multiple accounts. Some of those owners accounts were frozen while some of the accounts weren’t.


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## 55plus (Dec 10, 2018)

Can Wyndham, a publicly traded company refuse service, in this case sell points, to someone who financially qualifies?


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## Richelle (Dec 10, 2018)

55plus said:


> Can Wyndham, a publicly traded company refuse service, in this case sell points, to someone who financially qualifies?



I think they have the right to refuse service to anyone.  


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## ronparise (Dec 11, 2018)

Richelle said:


> I think I learned how you may have done that. “Think” being the key word. Do you know if they closed that loop hole?  If so, it’s not what I’m thinking.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Im pretty sure that  they did close the loophole,
Another owner and I both had VIP accounts and we didnt understand why.  We opened up our accounts to eachother and looked for anything that we had in common that might explain it.  our best guess was that contract numbers that began with 00080 would retain their VIP eligibility even when purchased on the secondary market... To test our theory we both started buying these 00080 contracts, and we were both able to make VIP contracts from ebay sales

00080 is the prefix for affiliate contracts, Angel Fire, certain El Cid and others, listed in the directory. Also a lot of the Pahio resorts carry the 00080 prefix and they would count toward VIP too. I believe that Wyndham was a sales agent for Pahio, before they bought the company and the contracts they sold were affiliate contracts

In any case I was able to build 3 Platinum contracts with these 00080 contracts purchased on the secondary market

When Wyndham suspended my accounts all they knew is that I had "too many" points in reservations in my accounts... In our discussions they wanted to know how I could have 90 million points in reservations but only own contracts that generated 10 million points a year....so I told them what I was doing.  There were three things that really upset them, 1) my use if the credit pool, 2) I sold them contracts stripped of points through one of their approved brokers, 3) That I was VIP and enjoyed 50% discounts on all my reservations without ever buying from the developer. (actually my first two VIP accounts required small developer purchases, (63000 points each) My last three Platinum accounts were all done with nothing but resale)

To my knowledge all three loopholes have been closed. No more credit pool, no more sales of stripped contracts to anyone and no more "free" VIP

Sorry


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## ronparise (Dec 11, 2018)

Richelle said:


> I think they have the right to refuse service to anyone.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk




It dosent make any difference, whether they have the right or not.  I didnt think they had a right to suspend my accounts and force me out of the club... Basically they dared me to sue them.    I didnt have the money or inclination to do that...It was like negotiating with Tony Soprano..so I settled, on their terms

my point is even if you have the right, It you probably dont have the cash to fight for it


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## Richelle (Dec 11, 2018)

ronparise said:


> 00080 is the prefix for affiliate contracts, Angel Fire, certain El Cid and others, listed in the directory. Also a lot of the Pahio resorts carry the 00080 prefix and they would count toward VIP too. I believe that Wyndham was a sales agent for Pahio, before they bought the company and the contracts they sold were affiliate contracts
> 
> In any case I was able to build 3 Platinum contracts with these 00080 contracts purchased on the secondary market
> 
> Sorry




I know of a contract for sale on eBay that has that prefix. Half tempted to try it because it has lower MF as well. 


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## am1 (Dec 11, 2018)

ronparise said:


> It dosent make any difference, whether they have the right or not.  I didnt think they had a right to suspend my accounts and force me out of the club... Basically they dared me to sue them.    I didnt have the money or inclination to do that...It was like negotiating with Tony Soprano..so I settled, on their terms
> 
> my point is even if you have the right, It you probably dont have the cash to fight for it



I'm sure they have the right in these cases.  They would not based on disrimination of protected classes or whatever the official term is in that regard.


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## ronparise (Dec 11, 2018)

Richelle said:


> I know of a contract for sale on eBay that has that prefix. Half tempted to try it because it has lower MF as well.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



are you already silver or gold vip?


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## Richelle (Dec 11, 2018)

ronparise said:


> are you already silver or gold vip?



Gold. Within spitting distance of platinum. 


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## ronparise (Dec 12, 2018)

Richelle said:


> Gold. Within spitting distance of platinum.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


so that one contract may push you over the edge... If you do it Id be interested to know what happens


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## Richelle (Dec 12, 2018)

I am waiting to hear back from a certain Tugger.  I knew he was looking at buying more points, so I showed him this auction.  This was before you told me about the 0008 prefix.  If he wants to buy it, I'll let him have it.  If not, I'll grab it.


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## DRIless (Dec 12, 2018)

Nothing to be sorry about, it's great fun to find the loopholes and exploit them, but they are loopholes and when found they get closed.  

You keep saying "I was VIP and enjoyed 50% discounts on all my reservations."  Do you mean ALL reservations or those in the <60day window?




ronparise said:


> Im pretty sure that  they did close the loophole,
> Another owner and I both had VIP accounts and we didnt understand why.  We opened up our accounts to eachother and looked for anything that we had in common that might explain it.  our best guess was that contract numbers that began with 00080 would retain their VIP eligibility even when purchased on the secondary market... To test our theory we both started buying these 00080 contracts, and we were both able to make VIP contracts from ebay sales
> 
> 00080 is the prefix for affiliate contracts, Angel Fire, certain El Cid and others, listed in the directory. Also a lot of the Pahio resorts carry the 00080 prefix and they would count toward VIP too. I believe that Wyndham was a sales agent for Pahio, before they bought the company and the contracts they sold were affiliate contracts
> ...


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## ecwinch (Dec 12, 2018)

DRIless said:


> Nothing to be sorry about, it's great fun to find the loopholes and exploit them, but they are loopholes and when found they get closed.
> 
> You keep saying "I was VIP and enjoyed 50% discounts on all my reservations."  Do you mean ALL reservations or those in the <60day window?



With cancel/rebook it was pretty easy to get the 50% discount on everything, and usually easy to rebook the smallest unit and upgrade it to the largest unit. It just required enough pts to hold the desired largest unit and smallest unit. The sales people even had a name for it - “creating your own inventory”.

It also why credit pooling was so popular. It needed lots of points to work, so pulling forward future points was key.

I personally think Wyndham was willing to turn a blind eye to it, until they started getting stripped contracts back via Ovations - and realized all the machinations placed them at risk of having the regulators step in and ask if the program was not “out of trust” - ie that Wyndham owed the Trust the points for all these loopholes in the developer programs.


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## ronparise (Dec 12, 2018)

DRIless said:


> Nothing to be sorry about, it's great fun to find the loopholes and exploit them, but they are loopholes and when found they get closed.
> 
> You keep saying "I was VIP and enjoyed 50% discounts on all my reservations."  Do you mean ALL reservations or those in the <60day window?




yes, all reservations, yes in the 60 day window

We would make high value reservations at the 10 month or 13 month mark. hold them until within the 60 day window, cancel and immediately rebook...

My favorite technique was to makeone studio reservation and as many 1 bedrooms as possible at 13 months for Mardi Gras (La Belle Maison had only a few 2 bedrooms...so I didnt even try for them

Then at 60 days cancel the studio and rebook at 50% discount, Then cancel a one bedroom and upgrade the studio into it; then rebook the studio
and again and again and again

the end result was multiple one bedrooms at the half the studio rate and one studio at half price


At other resorts it was possible to get 3 bedroom units at half the studio or one bedroom rate


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## breezez (Dec 12, 2018)

ecwinch said:


> I guess there are two aspects to this.
> 
> Does Wyndham have the right to not sell to someone?  There I think the answer is - it depends on the reason. If I really wanted to buy points, I would probably be making some noise alleging discrimination under the Fair Housing Act. Maybe even filing a complaint. At worst it probably results in them disclosing the reason.
> 
> The second part is a little more nuanced. Since you have a price lock - which you effectively cannot exercise -  you could allege breach of contract.


Not sure the discrimination under the fair housing act would work unless you are buying deeded property.    If you are just buying non deed points then you are buying a right to use I would surmise and while I am by no means a lawyer I doubt this would be covered under that act.


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## ecwinch (Dec 12, 2018)

breezez said:


> Not sure the discrimination under the fair housing act would work unless you are buying deeded property.    If you are just buying non deed points then you are buying a right to use I would surmise and while I am by no means a lawyer I doubt this would be covered under that act.



Actually the FHA has taken a fairly broad view of "housing" and when/where their authority extends. It was at the center point of CA resorts not being able to designate "adult-only" pool hours a few years back.


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## ronparise (Dec 12, 2018)

ecwinch said:


> With cancel/rebook it was pretty easy to get the 50% discount on everything, and usually easy to rebook the smallest unit and upgrade it to the largest unit. It just required enough pts to hold the desired largest unit and smallest unit. The sales people even had a name for it - “creating your own inventory”.
> 
> It also why credit pooling was so popular. It needed lots of points to work, so pulling forward future points was key.
> 
> I personally think Wyndham was willing to turn a blind eye to it, until they started getting stripped contracts back via Ovations - and realized all the machinations placed them at risk of having the regulators step in and ask if the program was not “out of trust” - ie that Wyndham owed the Trust the points for all these loopholes in the developer programs.



I don’t think Ovation ever allowed for stripped contracts 

They didn’t know they were buying stripped contracts back until I told them. This was a classic case of silo management 

Accounts got suspended because they had too many points.  And there were a lot of different explanations for the discrepancy Very few of the accounts that were suspended were suspended due to credit pooling and the sale of stripped contracts.  there just weren't many selling back to wyndham and only a small number of us were selling stripped contracts

The biggest thing I believe was that you could often cancel a reservation get the points back and the next day the reservation was back too. You could cancel a reservations multiple times createing a ton of points

And there were guys that were using the multiple use year loophole and rolling points forward each year 

And at least one guy I met had purchased millions and millions of points from other owners when that was ok to do


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## Worker (Apr 12, 2019)

bendadin said:


> What the heck could prompt this?
> 
> I called in to make a developer purchase and I was told that they were not allowed to sell me points.
> 
> An aside: my sales rep has left Wyndham and I had a price lock




Today, I contacted Corporate Sales and they told me I was flagged, so I cannot buy anymore points. Sales person said my account is flagged "Non Personal Use" and to call Legal for reason. I didn't call.

Still can make reservations, but it is possible I will be audited. Were you Audited?


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## 55plus (Apr 12, 2019)

Non Personal Use? It sounds like Wyndham has you flagged as a renter. Do you do a lot of renting? Maybe Wyndham did you a favor. If you want more points you are forced to buy resell. They saved you a lot of money.

Then on the other hand, is blacklisting legal? Can a publicly traded company refuse someone service? If so under what grounds.


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## rickandcindy23 (Apr 12, 2019)

I wonder if I will get the cold shoulder when I go for my Shell update next year.  Maybe they will let me give back my Shell points to avoid a scene?  That would be cool.


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## Worker (Apr 12, 2019)

55plus said:


> Non Personal Use? It sounds like Wyndham has you flagged as a renter. Do you do a lot of renting? Maybe Wyndham did you a favor. If you want more points you are forced to buy resell. They saved you a lot of money.
> 
> Then on the other hand, is blacklisting legal? Can a publicly traded company refuse someone service? If so under what grounds.



I have a current loan from Wyndham for a 20yr term to pay off a NYC developer purchase of 200,000 points.

I hope they let me rent to help pay off the loan.

I guess I will just wait and see what they do.


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## Jan M. (Apr 13, 2019)

Worker said:


> I have a current loan from Wyndham for a 20yr term to pay off a NYC developer purchase of 200,000 points.
> 
> I hope they let me rent to help pay off the loan.
> 
> I guess I will just wait and see what they do.



Yes you can rent. What you can't do is buy any more points directly from Wyndham at this time. You can however buy resale points.


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## Worker (Apr 13, 2019)

Jan M. said:


> Yes you can rent. What you can't do is buy any more points directly from Wyndham at this time. You can however buy resale points.



Thank you for advice


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## 55plus (Apr 13, 2019)

Worker said:


> I have a current loan from Wyndham for a 20yr term to pay off a NYC developer purchase of 200,000 points.
> 
> I hope they let me rent to help pay off the loan.
> 
> I guess I will just wait and see what they do.


If you are going to rent, my advice is to look for high demand locations and high demand timeframes to maximize profits. Those will cost you more points, but you can charge more. Look for the older resorts because the points required are generally lower. Use Craigslist because it's free. If you pay to advertise the profits are lower. Study Craigslist to get a feel for pricing and locations. We're here to help so take advantage of our wealth of knowledge.


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## Worker (Apr 13, 2019)

55plus said:


> If you are going to rent, my advice is to look for high demand locations and high demand timeframes to maximize profits. Those will cost you more points, but you can charge more. Look for the older resorts because the points required are generally lower. Use Craigslist because it's free. If you pay to advertise the profits are lower. Study Craigslist to get a feel for pricing and locations. We're here to help so take advantage of our wealth of knowledge.



Thank you for advice. I retire this year, so I will be using more of my points for personal use soon.


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## 55plus (Apr 13, 2019)

Worker said:


> Thank you for advice. I retire this year, so I will be using more of my points for personal use soon.


That is the best use of point, personal use. Enjoy!


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## Worker (Apr 15, 2019)

Jan M. said:


> Yes you can rent. What you can't do is buy any more points directly from Wyndham at this time. You can however buy resale points.



I just got a call from Corp. sales from Vegas (702) number that they will be referring  me to my Corp. Sales rep. In Redmond, WA.

Advised that sales rep will call me at 230pm PST today.

First  a rep  says I can't buy points, now they call me scheduling a sales call?

I wonder what will happen.


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## ecwinch (Apr 15, 2019)

That is odd... given that Redmond is where Worldmark is based out of. Maybe they are going to try to sell you WM credits, since you are barred from buying Wyndham points.


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## geist1223 (Apr 15, 2019)

Didn't they shut down the Redmond WA Office last year?


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## rickandcindy23 (Apr 15, 2019)

Worker said:


> I just got a call from Corp. sales from Vegas (702) number that they will be referring  me to my Corp. Sales rep. In Redmond, WA.
> 
> Advised that sales rep will call me at 230pm PST today.
> 
> ...


Could be a scam.  I get phone calls from 702 all of the time, and they are scams.  You could have been giving this person way too much information to lead the call into something that it wasn't.  Just saying.


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## Braindead (Apr 15, 2019)

Wyndham did or still does have telesales in Redmond WA. It’s a regional office with more than just telesales


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## ecwinch (Apr 15, 2019)

geist1223 said:


> Didn't they shut down the Redmond WA Office last year?


I dont believe so.... later this year if I remember correctly.


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## Worker (Apr 15, 2019)

ecwinch said:


> I dont believe so.... later this year if I remember correctly.



Just got a call back from 702 number and she said after review she saw " Not for personal use " , and said I couldn't buy from tele sales. But to try a Wyndham location sales. Also, she said that I could contact corporate "legal" to inquire about  " Not for personal use " notation on my account.

Also, I won't be receiving call from Redmond, WA sales office, she advised.


My conclusions:

1) I won't call Wyndham corporate "legal" department.
2) I can continue to buy resale points.


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## Jmama9643 (Apr 25, 2019)

I am new to this group, and have been a Wyndham Owner for Many years, and have been on the Do Not Update list for at least 3 years now.  I figured they put me on it because I had more points than I can use in a year, and some of them are resale, and I figured they knew I wouldn't be purchasing any more points from them at anywhere NEAR the retail price.  Not sure why anyone would once they know they can purchase resale.  Anyway, some the stuff you are talking about here is new to me, and I guess I didn't realize Wyndham was blocking people from purchasing more points.  Not sure how they can block anyone from purchasing resale points though... Willing seller, willing buyer.?  Or does this only pertain to buying from Wyndham directly?  If so, who cares, they are WAY OVER PRICED!!!


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## Crafty71 (Apr 26, 2019)

Jmama9643 wrote: "_Not sure how they can block anyone from purchasing resale points though..."
_
That part is easy...get a certain number of contracts on your account (I believe it is 30, but someone will correct me if I am wrong) and even though you have done all the paperwork, "paid" for the resale (purchase, transfer fee, etc.), the deed was recorded, and then the painfully long 14-16 weeks of waiting, Wyndham informs you that they will not add the contract to your account...sucks, but it could happen...

Cheers!


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## 55plus (Apr 26, 2019)

Crafty71 said:


> Jmama9643 wrote: "_Not sure how they can block anyone from purchasing resale points though..."
> _
> That part is easy...get a certain number of contracts on your account (I believe it is 30, but someone will correct me if I am wrong) and even though you have done all the paperwork, "paid" for the resale (purchase, transfer fee, etc.), the deed was recorded, and then the painfully long 14-16 weeks of waiting, Wyndham informs you that they will not add the contract to your account...sucks, but it could happen...
> 
> Cheers!


Wyndham could always set you up with another account number. Nothing says you can't have more than one account number.


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## Crafty71 (Apr 27, 2019)

55plus said:


> Wyndham could always set you up with another account number. Nothing says you can't have more than one account number.


Agreed...but that's assuming Wyndham wants to play nice...

Cheers!


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## 55plus (Apr 27, 2019)

Crafty71 said:


> Agreed...but that's assuming Wyndham wants to play nice...
> 
> Cheers!


Wyndham is a for profit company so I don't think a second account will be an issue. It's all about the bottom line ($$$$). I use to have two account numbers until I downsized. I'm sure there are hundreds of owners who have more than one account number. Some even have several accounts.


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## grab (May 9, 2019)

Wyndham tried to put me in a second account after 10 contracts but then merged them together. They forced me into a second account at 40 contracts and would not merge (or give me Platinum benefits on the second account without more $).


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