# Please Help [merged]



## msutton33 (Jan 4, 2011)

I am new to the timeshare game and to TUG. I want to buy Wyndham points from the resale market. The resort I was thinking is Wyndham Sedona. I have several options to buy resale for this resort.

This is how I want to use my points each year. We plan to take 4 (three to four over night stays) to Sedona and we would like to take 2 (four to five over night stays) to San Diego each year. I think I will need about 400,000 points to do this. The Sedona monthly fees are less than the San Diego so I think I should have Sedona as my home resort.  I can't do much long range planning either.  I intend to book maybe 4-6 weeks out or as short as several days. I have several questions:
1. Is this realistic?   
2. Should I buy points all in the same expiration quarter (user year) or should I try to buy points that have different expiration dates. I think it would be hard to keep track of different expiration dates but I don't know.
3. Does anyone have advice regarding using points for several short trips in a year without much advance notice for bookings? 
4. What expiration quarter date or dates are the easiest to manage or does it matter.  

Thank you for any help.

Martha


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## aliikai2 (Jan 4, 2011)

*If you can't plan ahead*

I think that you will be really unhappy. The San Diego area is high demand year round, and super high during the summer season, finding a part of a week at short notice is going to be rare. Timeshares work well for long range planned week long trips, or last minute take what is available trips. Thinking that these 2 resorts are going to be available for 5 to 6 trips per year is a sure recipe for some serious buyers remorse.

Making a lot of small reservations with Wyndham is going to be expensive, you will get 1 reservation fee and 1 cleaning fee with your ownership, all the rest will nickle and dime ( $25-$50) each time you into the poor house.

fwiw,


Greg


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## Aussiedog (Jan 4, 2011)

*Welcome!*

I have lots of Wyndham points and I use a chunk of them every year to book long weekends in San Diego.  

I love the flexibility of the points program and Wyndham.  However, as Greg said above, booking less than 6 weeks in advance for San Diego is a potential problem for you.  Sometimes you can get a couple of days in the middle of a week on that short notice, but weekends is almost impossible.  And if you need a 2 bedroom....... 

So I use Wyndham for San Diego trips that I can book at least 4 months out, Worldmark for 2-3 months out and a hotel points system for last minute trips.

Congratulations to you for asking about this before buying!!!

Ann


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## msutton33 (Jan 4, 2011)

aliikai2 said:


> I think that you will be really unhappy. The San Diego area is high demand year round, and super high during the summer season, finding a part of a week at short notice is going to be rare. Timeshares work well for long range planned week long trips, or last minute take what is available trips. Thinking that these 2 resorts are going to be available for 5 to 6 trips per year is a sure recipe for some serious buyers remorse.
> 
> Making a lot of small reservations with Wyndham is going to be expensive, you will get 1 reservation fee and 1 cleaning fee with your ownership, all the rest will nickle and dime ( $25-$50) each time you into the poor house.
> 
> ...



Thank you very much for your advice.


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## msutton33 (Jan 4, 2011)

Aussiedog said:


> I have lots of Wyndham points and I use a chunk of them every year to book long weekends in San Diego.
> 
> I love the flexibility of the points program and Wyndham.  However, as Greg said above, booking less than 6 weeks in advance for San Diego is a potential problem for you.  Sometimes you can get a couple of days in the middle of a week on that short notice, but weekends is almost impossible.  And if you need a 2 bedroom.......
> 
> ...



Ann,

I have another question for you.  I was thinking about buying 3-4 smaller point (,77 to 105) resale packages.  Should I try to get them with the same expiration date or does it matter?

Thank you,

Martha


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## msutton33 (Jan 4, 2011)

*Resale question*

I was thinking about buying 3-4 smaller point resale packages. About 77,000 to 105,000. Should I try to get them with the same expiration date or does it matter?

Thank you,


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## siesta (Jan 4, 2011)

if you don't own with wyndham already, I would first purchase a 154,000 point contract and try it out before you purchase a couple.

as for the expiration, it doesn't really matter just preference.  I would personally want them staggered out and expiring at different times, others may like to have them all expire at once to better stay organized.


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## msutton33 (Jan 4, 2011)

siesta said:


> if you don't own with wyndham already, I would first purchase a 154,000 point contract and try it out before you purchase a couple.
> 
> as for the expiration, it doesn't really matter just preference.  I would personally want them staggered out and expiring at different times, others may like to have them all expire at once to better stay organized.



Thank you very much.


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## Conan (Jan 4, 2011)

Sedona books up in high seasons; low seasons not so much.

Right now Wyndham Sedona has limited February availability and almost nothing for March 1 through April 22 (I searched for 2-BR 7-nights).  

Availability is currently good from April 23 through the end of the year.


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## msutton33 (Jan 4, 2011)

Conan said:


> Sedona books up in high seasons; low seasons not so much.
> 
> Right now Wyndham Sedona has limited February availability and almost nothing for March 1 through April 22 (I searched for 2-BR 7-nights).
> 
> Availability is currently good from April 23 through the end of the year.



Wow thank you so very much!!! 

I just need a studio or small 1 bedroom do you think that size would be limited also?

Again thank you!


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## msutton33 (Jan 4, 2011)

msutton33 said:


> Wow thank you so very much!!!
> 
> I just need a studio or small 1 bedroom do you think that size would be limited also?
> 
> Again thank you!



I wanted to add somthing do you think a studio or small 1 bedroom for 3 to 4 nights only would be hard to book?


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## msutton33 (Jan 5, 2011)

*Availability help*

I am thinking about purchasing about 300,000 points at the Wyndham Sedona resort resale.  Would someone be so kind and check availability at that resort for me?  I would like to know if a studio or a small 1 bedroom is available on short notice for a Wednesday through Saturday stay for the end of January, anytime in February and March.  I don't have the option of booking longer that about 3 weeks ahead of time.  I don't want to buy the points if the resort is completely booked 3 weeks ahead of time all of the time.  Anyway if someone could let me know I sure would be appreciative.

Thank you


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## msutton33 (Jan 5, 2011)

*[Advertising deleted]*

[Advertising in the discussion forums is not permitted and in this economy you can do far better than the deal you suggested. My recommendation is that you do a lot more homework. - DeniseM Moderator]


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## DeniseM (Jan 5, 2011)

I have merged your multiple threads on this topic.  If you have more questions or comments, please post them in this thread instead of starting new ones. - Thanks.


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## Conan (Jan 5, 2011)

msutton33 said:


> I wanted to add somthing do you think a studio or small 1 bedroom for 3 to 4 nights only would be hard to book?


 
If you only want 4 nights, 1-BRs are currently available in the second half of March and most of April (excepting April 17-20 which I guess is Easter), and in May through the end of the year.  Point costs are around 70,000 to the low 80's.

Of course, looking now it's 2 1/2 months ahead for late March and 3 months ahead for April.


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## msutton33 (Jan 5, 2011)

*I was not advertising or offering any "deal"*



msutton33 said:


> [Advertising in the discussion forums is not permitted and in this economy you can do far better than the deal you suggested. My recommendation is that you do a lot more homework. - DeniseM Moderator]



I am very confused and disapointed!  I don't know what I did wrong.  I was not advertising at all.  What is the "deal" that you think I suggested?

I am trying to do my home work.  I have read many threads from wonderful people that have suggested that everyone do their homwork before they buy.  That's all I am trying to do.

I do not have anything to sell so I'm not sure what you are refering to by deleting what I wrote and telling me not to advertise.

Please educate me.


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## msutton33 (Jan 5, 2011)

DeniseM said:


> I have merged your multiple threads on this topic.  If you have more questions or comments, please post them in this thread instead of starting new ones. - Thanks.



Why? Are you allowed one thread per person?

I have different questions and I thought by putting them in different threads the people that have an interest in that topic might be able to help me.

I'm very confused.  Please explain.


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## msutton33 (Jan 5, 2011)

Conan said:


> If you only want 4 nights, 1-BRs are currently available in the second half of March and most of April (excepting April 17-20 which I guess is Easter), and in May through the end of the year.  Point costs are around 70,000 to the low 80's.
> 
> Of course, looking now it's 2 1/2 months ahead for late March and 3 months ahead for April.



I can't thank you enough for your help!!!  Have a wonderful day!


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## vacationhopeful (Jan 5, 2011)

*Wyndham is very complex as a points TS system*

Martha,
Most Wyndham owners here on TUG are among the VERY MOST KNOWLEDGABLE owners of the system around. We all started as newbies. Everybody learns at a different speed and uses the system as little as one week as year. We welcome newbies and try very hard to help point you in the right direction to read & learn - but we can not change the system or create vacations where and when your family wants to go. We only _WISH_ we could do that for your vacations and our families. :ignore: 

Timesharing in general is based on people taking 1 week vacations. That is how Wyndham started in TSing. Then it created its points system. But its (Wyndham and most other systems) structure for reservations, resort checkins, and fees are still based on top of a WEEKS system.

To accommodate short stays (1-6 nites), it charges extra fees. These are called Housekeeping Credits (HKs) and Reservation Transactions (RTs). There are minimum stay lenghts and checkin/checkout days during most PRIME time seasons - to maximize unit usage and limit demands on staff.

Please read more of the Wyndham Primer. Look again at the costs of short stays (RTs & HKs particularily). I personal have read the Wyndham Members Directory 3X with different color high-lighters when I first started. It made much more sense the 3rd time. I still refer to it regularily when I answer detailed and involved questions on TUG.

Learning about Wyndham BEFORE buying can be a very BIG cost saving feature in owning Wyndham points. It might NOT be the best fit for you and your family. 

Welcome to TUG!


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## vacationhopeful (Jan 5, 2011)

Look at *Worldmark* System ... it might be a better fit as you live in AZ.


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## msutton33 (Jan 5, 2011)

*thank you so much!*



vacationhopeful said:


> Look at *Worldmark* System ... it might be a better fit as you live in AZ.



Thank you so much. I really appreciate the time you spent to explain that to me.  I learn something new everyday.


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## LLW (Jan 5, 2011)

vacationhopeful said:


> Look at *Worldmark* System ... it might be a better fit as you live in AZ.



WM San Diego Mission Valley may have availabilities 4-6 weeks before check-in, except for school holidays and summer. 

WM does not have a resort in Sedona.

Here's a description of all the WM resorts and credits needed:
https://www.worldmarktheclub.com/resorts/

Here is the current maintenance fee schedule:
http://www.wmowners.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=25787

There is an annual cap of 5% for MF increases. You get one free housekeeping credit per 10K credits (or less), and pay a fee for each stay thereafter:
http://www.wmowners.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=28916

There is no reservation or guest fee.

You may buy a small account (6K or 7K credits, at between 50 and 60 cents per credit), then rent additional credits inexpensively from other owners pretty easily in the foreseeable future.


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## msutton33 (Jan 5, 2011)

*Thank you!*



LLW said:


> WM San Diego Mission Valley may have availabilities 4-6 weeks before check-in, except for school holidays and summer.
> 
> WM does not have a resort in Sedona.
> 
> ...



All the help is greatly appreciated.


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## momeason (Jan 5, 2011)

msutton33 said:


> I was thinking about buying 3-4 smaller point resale packages. About 77,000 to 105,000. Should I try to get them with the same expiration date or does it matter?
> 
> Thank you,



I think the program fees are much higher with multiple contracts. Figuring out how many points you want and buying one contract saves money, I think.


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## msutton33 (Jan 5, 2011)

*Thank you!!!!*



momeason said:


> I think the program fees are much higher with multiple contracts. Figuring out how many points you want and buying one contract saves money, I think.



Good point!


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## DeniseM (Jan 6, 2011)

msutton33 said:


> I am very confused and disapointed!  I don't know what I did wrong.  I was not advertising at all.  What is the "deal" that you think I suggested?



In the post I deleted, you made a public offer to buy, which is advertising.  The deal you offered is not a good one for you - you were offering to pay the developer price for something you can buy resale for pennies on the dollar.


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## DeniseM (Jan 6, 2011)

msutton33 said:


> Why? Are you allowed one thread per person?
> 
> I have different questions and I thought by putting them in different threads the people that have an interest in that topic might be able to help me.
> 
> I'm very confused.  Please explain.



All of the threads you have started are about the same purchase that you want to make.  Starting multiple threads is counter-productive.  For the sake of continuity, it makes more sense to post all your questions about this purchase in one thread so people who want to respond can see what's info. has already been posted by you and others.  Anyone who is interested will continue to read and respond as more questions and info. are added.  Every time a new post is added, it will bump the thread to the top of the forum, so it won't get lost.

If you decide to ask questions on a completely different topic - let's say you want to look into Marriott, it would be appropriate to start a new thread on a different forum.  But as long as you are asking about this Wyndham purchase, it's more effective to keep all the info. in one thread.


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## Explorer7 (Jan 6, 2011)

momeason said:


> I think the program fees are much higher with multiple contracts. Figuring out how many points you want and buying one contract saves money, I think.




Program Fee
Program Rate for 1,000 Points: $0.53

I don't see where you would get a reduction in program fees by consolodating your points to one contract. But I've been wrong before


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## jjmanthei05 (Jan 6, 2011)

momeason said:


> I think the program fees are much higher with multiple contracts. Figuring out how many points you want and buying one contract saves money, I think.



The program fee doesn't change since it is based on total points in the account. The reason it is usually not recommended is because there is little to no cost difference on eBay between a 100,000 point contract from a resort and a 300,000 point contract. So if you were to buy 3 contracts instead of 1 to make the 300,000 you will be paying 3 closings and transfer fees instead of 1. Once you have all the points in your account there is no difference in cost (not counting of course the different cost in MF at different resorts). 

Jason


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## msutton33 (Jan 6, 2011)

*Thank you!*



jjmanthei05 said:


> The program fee doesn't change since it is based on total points in the account. The reason it is usually not recommended is because there is little to no cost difference on eBay between a 100,000 point contract from a resort and a 300,000 point contract. So if you were to buy 3 contracts instead of 1 to make the 300,000 you will be paying 3 closings and transfer fees instead of 1. Once you have all the points in your account there is no difference in cost (not counting of course the different cost in MF at different resorts).
> 
> Jason



That makes good sense.   Thank you!!!!!!!!!


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## msutton33 (Jan 6, 2011)

*Thank you!*



jjmanthei05 said:


> The program fee doesn't change since it is based on total points in the account. The reason it is usually not recommended is because there is little to no cost difference on eBay between a 100,000 point contract from a resort and a 300,000 point contract. So if you were to buy 3 contracts instead of 1 to make the 300,000 you will be paying 3 closings and transfer fees instead of 1. Once you have all the points in your account there is no difference in cost (not counting of course the different cost in MF at different resorts).
> 
> Jason





Explorer7 said:


> Program Fee
> Program Rate for 1,000 Points: $0.53
> 
> I don't see where you would get a reduction in program fees by consolodating your points to one contract. But I've been wrong before



Yes,  that does make sense.  Thank you!


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## DrBopp (Jan 8, 2011)

momeason said:


> I think the program fees are much higher with multiple contracts. Figuring out how many points you want and buying one contract saves money, I think.


Program fees are not higher with multiple contracts because the fees are based on total points. I have 3 different contracts soon to be 4 and I get the discount for having over 300K points same as someone who  has them in one contract. Also, I have multiple Usage dates, presently 2 Jan-Dec, 1 for July/June and the new one will be April/Marrch. While it can be confusing, it definitely has it advantages, especially in December.
 If you have not purchased the contract yet, you may have trouble reserving anything before April or May, because it could take up to 90 days for you to get into the Wyndham system. So it could be April 10th, before you got everything if you bought on Monday, January 10th. It could happen sooner, 
but I would not pin my vacation hopes on it. Good luck on whatever you decide.

Gordon

BTW, You get 1 Resevation Transaction per 77K points, so 300K points would give you 3 RT.


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## msutton33 (Jan 11, 2011)

*Thank you*



DrBopp said:


> Program fees are not higher with multiple contracts because the fees are based on total points. I have 3 different contracts soon to be 4 and I get the discount for having over 300K points same as someone who  has them in one contract. Also, I have multiple Usage dates, presently 2 Jan-Dec, 1 for July/June and the new one will be April/Marrch. While it can be confusing, it definitely has it advantages, especially in December.
> If you have not purchased the contract yet, you may have trouble reserving anything before April or May, because it could take up to 90 days for you to get into the Wyndham system. So it could be April 10th, before you got everything if you bought on Monday, January 10th. It could happen sooner,
> but I would not pin my vacation hopes on it. Good luck on whatever you decide.
> 
> ...



I am sorry I did not thank you sooner I am just now reading your post.  I do have additional questions.

What are the advantages of different use years?  Why did you say especially in December? 

The contracts I am looking into are these.  First one is july-june (189K points) and the sec is oct-sept (154K points).  All the 2010 points are available now.  Both contracts are in Sedona AZ. M/F are 4.09 for 2011. Price is 1900.00 for both + 350 for closing.  Does this seem resonable to someone experienced?  

I did not know you got a discount on M/F if you owned more that 300K points.  How much is the discount?  I have seen less expensive contacts on ebay for Sedona.  They just did not seem right for me.


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## DrBopp (Jan 13, 2011)

msutton33 said:


> What are the advantages of different use years?  Why did you say especially in December?
> The contracts I am looking into are these.  First one is july-june (189K points) and the sec is oct-sept (154K points).  All the 2010 points are available now.


Well with the contracts you are considering, it is not as much of a factor. But if you have contracts that expire in December, having different use year contracts allows you to extend those points for reservations up to 9 months using a reserve/cancel trick. That is where you  make a reservation, then cancel within 24 hours. Those points become cancelled points and you can do what you want with them except Advance Reservations.You can deposit them into RCI or II. But by having a different use year it just extends your points extra time and gives you more time to make a choice.



msutton33 said:


> Both contracts are in Sedona AZ. M/F are 4.09 for 2011. Price is 1900.00 for both + 350 for closing.  Does this seem resonable to someone experienced?
> 
> I did not know you got a discount on M/F if you owned more that 300K points.  How much is the discount?  I have seen less expensive contacts on ebay for Sedona.  They just did not seem right for me.


The price @ $1900 seems high, but that is not my strong point, so someone else could advise you better. My questioin is;
Why do the ebay contracts seem not right? I bought all of my contracts on ebay, 4 in all and 3 of them are online with Wyndham and I am awaiting confirmation on the fourth. No problems so far and I paid under $1000 for 357/480 points on odd/even years. Ebay doesn't seem to be a problem, but you have to go with your comfort level.


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## msutton33 (Jan 14, 2011)

*Thank you again!*



DrBopp said:


> Well with the contracts you are considering, it is not as much of a factor. But if you have contracts that expire in December, having different use year contracts allows you to extend those points for reservations up to 9 months using a reserve/cancel trick. That is where you  make a reservation, then cancel within 24 hours. Those points become cancelled points and you can do what you want with them except Advance Reservations.You can deposit them into RCI or II. But by having a different use year it just extends your points extra time and gives you more time to make a choice.
> 
> 
> The price @ $1900 seems high, but that is not my strong point, so someone else could advise you better. My questioin is;
> Why do the ebay contracts seem not right? I bought all of my contracts on ebay, 4 in all and 3 of them are online with Wyndham and I am awaiting confirmation on the fourth. No problems so far and I paid under $1000 for 357/480 points on odd/even years. Ebay doesn't seem to be a problem, but you have to go with your comfort level.




This was very helpful.  I didn't know about the reserve/cancel trick and my husband and I have decided we will look into ebay for our next points.

Thank you again,

Martha


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