# Any changes in your resort's RCI award level ranking?



## djyamyam (Jan 2, 2008)

So it's now 2008, the start of the new status award year that RCI designates for its afiliate resorts. As you may know, this past year, RCI instituted a new survey and ranking process in order to resorts to maintain their status (gold crown, silver crown, hospitality). 

Has it made any difference? Does the resort you own have its status change as a result?  For those of you on the various HOAs, what difference has it made, if any?


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## djyamyam (Jan 5, 2008)

*FF Royal Sea Cliff dropped 2 levels*

Well, I found one resort that dropped from gold crown to hospitality status.  In looking at the TUG reviews, there are few of them in 2007 and they are positive for the most part.  So maybe the new standards are having an impact.


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## djyamyam (Jan 5, 2008)

*Rankings have definitely gone down!*

There must have been a delay from Jan 1 on having the resorts' statuses updated.  I've relooked at a number of resorts and they've changed since Jan 1, most going down.  The new rankings are definitely having a negative impact on resort statuses.


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## djyamyam (Jan 5, 2008)

Originally, this was just an RCI issue but on further thought, this would also impact owners that use other exchange companies like SFX. SFX professes to only take GC status resorts, with a number of resorts dropping from that status (or from silver crown in some highly demanded areas), their inventory of allowable resorts just shrunk and some accepted resorts now just got dropped! 

Additionally, for all those with RCI Points accounts, many own non-points resorts that they use for PFD.  I can bet you that some of those resorts have dropped in their ranking, which means a decrease in the number of points they get for PFD, further dropping their value.

I can't believe no one has commented on this besides me!


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## Hophop4 (Jan 5, 2008)

I noticed a change in my resorts also: Gold Crown to Silver and my Silvers to Hospitality.  How will this have an effect on trading power, if any?


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## bccash63 (Jan 5, 2008)

Wyndham Ocean Walk went from GC to non-rated??
Worldmark Ocean Walk is GC--these are the same resort??!!       
Also noticed Wyndham Bonnet Creek GC to non-rated, Wyndham Ocean Palms GC to non-rated, Wyndham Glacier Canyon GC to non-rated and these are just the few I checked--Bonnet Creek  and Glaciet Canyon are both very new and very nice resorts could this be accurate???? Dawn


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## bnoble (Jan 5, 2008)

Bonnet Creek is unrated because it is never deposited, so no one can exchange in, so there are no guest comments on which to base a rating.  Same with Glacier Canyon.

I have a fixed week at Peppertree @ Tamarack, which dropped from GC to SC.  In all honesty, that's probably appropriate.  It's a nice place, but not what I would call a plush resort.


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## timeos2 (Jan 5, 2008)

bccash63 said:


> Wyndham Ocean Walk went from GC to non-rated??
> Worldmark Ocean Walk is GC--these are the same resort??!!
> Also noticed Wyndham Bonnet Creek GC to non-rated, Wyndham Ocean Palms GC to non-rated, Wyndham Glacier Canyon GC to non-rated and these are just the few I checked--Bonnet Creek  and Glaciet Canyon are both very new and very nice resorts could this be accurate???? Dawn



Bonnet Creek would be a great example of a top resort with very few RCI guests so very few ratings cards - thus they didn't meet the minimum OR had a few bad cards (it only takes one or two per month) to ruin any ranking.  The new higher requirements seem to be a push to reduce the number of ranked resorts. Plus the difference between Silver and Gold crown is so small that if you miss one you most likely miss both.  

We need an independent system of resort ranking away from RCI/II as they are not in that business and the flawed systems they use don't fairly rate resorts anymore.  As exchange use gets fragmented over many different companies no one or two have enough input to give valid rankings.


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## Hophop4 (Jan 5, 2008)

deleted duplicate


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## Hophop4 (Jan 5, 2008)

Is there a new list of RCI's  requirement survey listed someplace??


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## Lizyyz (Jan 6, 2008)

djyamyam said:


> Additionally, for all those with RCI Points accounts, many own non-points resorts that they use for PFD.  I can bet you that some of those resorts have dropped in their ranking, which means a decrease in the number of points they get for PFD, further dropping their value.
> QUOTE]
> 
> Conversely, RCI Points owners will need less points to book into those resorts whose ratings got downgraded, right?


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## Laurie (Jan 6, 2008)

djyamyam said:


> Well, I found one resort that dropped from gold crown to hospitality status.  In looking at the TUG reviews, there are few of them in 2007 and they are positive for the most part.  So maybe the new standards are having an impact.


Wow - we stayed at Royal Sea Cliff in October, in a totally renovated (and ocean-view) unit, and it was one of the nicest units we've ever stayed in - IMO absolutely GC in every way. Maybe when they complete all the unit renovations, it will be back up at GC; I can't think of any GC standard which our unit, or the public areas of the resort, didn't meet.


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## Laurie (Jan 6, 2008)

I believe San Luis Bay Inn dropped one, from gold to silver crown. I'd also like to see the changes in requirements, if anyone has that.


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## djyamyam (Jan 6, 2008)

Lizyyz said:


> Conversely, RCI Points owners will need less points to book into those resorts whose ratings got downgraded, right?



That is corrrect.


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## "Roger" (Jan 6, 2008)

Now you have me wondering.  It appears that the Pahio resorts took a HUGE hit.  The Shearwater, Silver Crown.  Kai Eo Kai, Hospitality. Bali Hai and Kauai Beach Club, unrated.  

Meanwhile, I looked at two basic motel conversions that I have stayed at elsewhere... Neither of them at all distinguished.  They were Silver Crown.


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## djyamyam (Jan 6, 2008)

Hophop4 said:


> Is there a new list of RCI's  requirement survey listed someplace??



Carolinan had posted the following last summer:


New RCI award status criteria 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Effective in September, there will be a new RCI comment card and new criteria for award status.

There will still be a 1 to 5 rating, but the meaning for each number will change. Currently, it is 5- extremely satisfied, 4- very satisfied, 3- satisfied,
2- somewhat satisfied, 1- not at all satisfied.

Now there will only be descriptors on the top end (5- very satisfied) and low end (1- very dissatisfied).

The treshholds for award status have changed, with the numbers higher than at present, and target levels this time in all ranking categories for Hospitality status. The categories used for ranking award status are: check-in/out, resort hospitality, resort maintenance, unit maintenance, and unit housekeeping.

New award status requirements are:

award status / check-in/out / resort hosp. / resort main./ unit main./ hskping
GC                    4.6          /     4.5          /   4.5         /   4.4       /     4.5
SC                    4.5         /      4.4          /    4.3       /    4.2      /      4.3
Hosp.                4.6         /      4.5         /     3.5       /    3.5     /      3.5
These are for 12 month averages. There are additional criteria for GC's other than the numbers.


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## djyamyam (Jan 6, 2008)

timeos2 said:


> Bonnet Creek would be a great example of a top resort with very few RCI guests so very few ratings cards - thus they didn't meet the minimum OR had a few bad cards (it only takes one or two per month) to ruin any ranking.  The new higher requirements seem to be a push to reduce the number of ranked resorts. Plus the difference between Silver and Gold crown is so small that if you miss one you most likely miss both.
> 
> We need an independent system of resort ranking away from RCI/II as they are not in that business and the flawed systems they use don't fairly rate resorts anymore.  As exchange use gets fragmented over many different companies no one or two have enough input to give valid rankings.



John, I remember a long thread last year on this when Carolinan first posted about the new rankings and some test surveys RCI had done saying the new survey cards were generating higher survey results, hence they were raising the award criteria.  I know you had posted on this a bit but can't seem to find that thread.

There's really been no discussion on this because this week is realy only the first time there has been any public impact of the new rankings since it takes a year for the results to be compiled.


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## timeos2 (Jan 6, 2008)

djyamyam said:


> John, I remember a long thread last year on this when Carolinan first posted about the new rankings and some test surveys RCI had done saying the new survey cards were generating higher survey results, hence they were raising the award criteria.  I know you had posted on this a bit but can't seem to find that thread.
> 
> There's really been no discussion on this because this week is realy only the first time there has been any public impact of the new rankings since it takes a year for the results to be compiled.



It seems the rise in scores - which I'm not convinced occurred - was more than offset by a drop in reports returned (you can do them with optional methods now not just the cards).  It seems the goal was to cull many of the ranked resorts to make it more exclusive.  If so it worked. It also played into the hands of the mega-resorts that use only one ID code as the ability to get a ranking is directly related to the shear number of returns - even more than the individual scores on any one rating. 
I also see how the rankings are skewed by areas. In Orlando for example resorts with top quality furnishings & designs as well as a ton of features struggle to make even Silver Crown. While in the Northeast a small resort, no kitchens, got scores that would have given it Gold Crown (they opted to turn the award down).  No consistency or benchmarks to make the award equal at all locations. 

We even sat down with a high level RCI executive to discuss the issue and they just had a bunch of platitudes to offer - they can't really control the guests either.  They did slip and say at one point "Of course we do rentals - it's in our name".  Oh really? Where?  We weren't impressed by them or that they had any appreciation for the mood of their members. 

I do hope an independent resort ranking - all resorts not just those that RCI/II get enough input for - evolves as we need a true measurement of quality in timesharing.


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## DaveNV (Jan 6, 2008)

Well, this is interesting.  As already mentioned, PAHIO @ Kauai Beach Villas has dropped from Gold Crown to unrated.  (I wonder if it's related to the new swimming pool they're building this year?)  But I also see that Mauna Loa Village by the Sea (not the Shell side) dropped from Silver Crown to not rated, as well.  Two newly-purchased Wyndham resorts that now are unrated.

So that means all three resorts I own are now unrated.  I wonder if this is significant?  I can't believe the resort ratings are THAT fragile.  Are they?

Dave


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## "Roger" (Jan 6, 2008)

To be honest, this has all the markings of some executive getting a performance bonus for revamping the system regardless of whether the new system is indicative of anything.  I see some of just what John is talking about... a motel conversion without a kitchen, with very so so furnishings, somewhat worn, with tight spaces, getting a Silver Crown while resorts with a ton of amenties getting nothing.

If the awards don't indicate supply and demand (never had), don't reflect quality, what is left?  

(This goes beyond just a judgment call.  It is patently obvious with some of the resorts that the new designations are totally screwy.)


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## timeos2 (Jan 6, 2008)

jeepguynw said:


> Well, this is interesting.  As already mentioned, PAHIO @ Kauai Beach Villas has dropped from Gold Crown to unrated.  (I wonder if it's related to the new swimming pool they're building this year?)  But I also see that Mauna Loa Village by the Sea (not the Shell side) dropped from Silver Crown to not rated, as well.  Two newly-purchased Wyndham resorts that now are unrated.
> 
> So that means all three resorts I own are now unrated.  I wonder if this is significant?  I can't believe the resort ratings are THAT fragile.  Are they?
> 
> Dave



Yes, they are. And a small change in return count or a bunch of 3's (or worse 1's or 2's) on a report and it takes 5 perfect scores (quite rare) to get back to a ranking.   All at the whim of guests trading in - maybe not to the resort they requested & with a chip on their shoulder - it is tough to get a ranking and getting tougher to hold it. Add in that new resorts, filled with promises of features & quality that don't have to get guest cards for 3-5 years can be awarded a rank - largely for sales support - and then may quickly fall when actual rank from guests kick in.


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## djyamyam (Jan 6, 2008)

timeos2 said:


> Add in that new resorts, filled with promises of features & quality that don't have to get guest cards for 3-5 years can be awarded a rank - largely for sales support - and then may quickly fall when actual rank from guests kick in.



Can you explain this further?  I don't understand how report cards don't apply to them.


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## timeos2 (Jan 6, 2008)

djyamyam said:


> Can you explain this further?  I don't understand how report cards don't apply to them.



When a resort is new it is "reviewed" by RCI (&/or II if so affiliated) to see what level of ranking they feel it is "likely" to get. It covers the unit size & features and whatever amenities are proposed/promise.  Developers know this and put things in the plans to be sure it meets the minimum they desire (and leads to things like "vacuums" being those manual, worthless push things restaurants use to meet the requirement). That is true even if the promised exercise room, clubhouse & other common features are mere plans.  

But even if the resort gets reviews that fail to meet that ranking it doesn't count as there are either too few or because the ranking runs almost 2 years behind.  So they get a free pass for at least two years - maybe more - until the actual results start to determine the rank (if any).


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## teepeeca (Jan 7, 2008)

Don't forget that RCI can give any developer (in sales) a "Gold Crown" rating for their timeshare (doesn't have to be the original developer, but a subsequent "developer).  This helps the "developer" in their sales tactics.

HOWEVER, that "gold crown" rating is a "temporary" rating, while in sales.  Once the developer leaves, the rating suddenly dissapears, and then the resort is downgraded to a lesser standard.

I've seen that happen with at least 3 timeshares that I am familiar with.

Tony


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## DaveNV (Jan 7, 2008)

Was anything downgraded that isn't a Wyndham property?  I wonder if that has anything to do with it.  Doesn't Wyndham also own RCI now, too?

Dave


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## rickandcindy23 (Jan 7, 2008)

Wyndham Kona Hawaiian Village and Wyndham Royal Sea Cliff are missing in the online directory.  This is indicative of big screw-ups by RCI.  

Also, Orbit One resort in Orlando/ Kissimmee has a Silver Crown rating?  Not worthy of that at all.  

PAHIO/ Wyndham Bali Hai is a regular resort now?  Just because it is now going to be in Wyndham points and is no longer in RCI points.  That seems obvious to me.  

Of course, PAHIO/ Wyndham needs to make sure the older units are kept up and not ignored in favor of the new ones.  This is a mistake many mega resorts make, they let the older units get more worn out while worrying about building new.  Bali Hai doesn't deserve that rating.  Shearwater might have deserved an eye-opener because the units have very little decor, like paintings, colorful greenery, and bright upholstery.  They need to fix all of that.  The units don't look like the pictures PAHIO used ot have on their website.  Plus, those penthouse units have a real dust problem where the maids can't reach easily.  Might be time for some active board members.  I need to consider this for at least next year.


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## rickandcindy23 (Jan 7, 2008)

jeepguynw said:


> Was anything downgraded that isn't a Wyndham property?  I wonder if that has anything to do with it.  Doesn't Wyndham also own RCI now, too?
> 
> Dave



Wyndham and RCI are Cendant companies.  

I did notice that Wyndham properties were downgraded across the board.  Seems odd to me.  Plus, a few left out of the directory.

PAHIO's used to be in RCI points but abandoned sales in RCI points in favor of Wyndham/ Fairfield.  Bali Hai was sold almost entirely in points for years, so perhaps RCI is feeling the sting of that decision.  Less trades into RCI with Wyndham points, too.  I am not using my Wyndham points in RCI.  I am using them for internal exchanging purposes.  This may have hurt RCI.


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## jjlovecub (Jan 7, 2008)

Last year one of my resorts went from Gold to Silver. I had in a request for Key West and it was just sitting for 5 months. I noticed my same resort was also with II so I added it to II (where it was still a 5 star) and placed a new request for the same Key West resort/same week (affiliated with both) with my 2009 week. I got it in confirmed in only 3 weeks. So, I'm just going to use that RCI week to stay at my home resort in March but after that it is all II for that resort. Now when I see the "new" II rankings who knows but it still traded much quicker with II so we will see.


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## chellej (Jan 7, 2008)

I had one in Colorado go from Hospitality to unrated, one in Idaho stay at silver crown, one in North Carolina go from Silver to hospitality and an AI Mexico stay at Gold Crown


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## rickandcindy23 (Jan 7, 2008)

Are you talking about Foxrun?  I noticed it dipped again in ratings, but the board is going to move forward with some improvements, so I feel so good about the resort, plus II still likes Foxrun just fine.   If you don't belong to the Foxrun group, Chellej, let me know and I will get you an invite.  

Val Chatelle stayed at Silver Crown and has kept that rating for many years now.  We have no clubhouse, pool, activities, etc., but there are things it has that other resorts just cannot boast, like a garage, a hot tub on the deck and tons of space.  Plus, it is all about location!   Walking distance to town and incredible landscape all around are why this resort hasn't been bumped down.  

Still don't get the downgrade of so many Wyndhams.


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## chellej (Jan 7, 2008)

oops - duplicate post


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## chellej (Jan 7, 2008)

Cindy

Yes I am referring to foxrun.  At one time they were offered gold crown and opted to stay silver, same with Landings at Seven Coves. I thought it was VRI's philosophy.

I have always deposited mine with II - still gets good trades & bonus weeks.

Thanks for the invite - I already belong to the foxrun group.

I would actually prefer my resorts stay at silver.  One year my idaho week was upgraded to gold crown.  I had an ongoing search in Italy at the time and had been checking availability daily.  I was amazed at what the VIP filter did when it upgraded.  It blocked ~75% of the resorts.  I would rather have the choice than have RCI block it for me.


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## lopil (Jan 7, 2008)

*Are Special Assessments on the Horizon at Wyndham Resorts?*



djyamyam said:


> Carolinan had posted the following last summer:
> 
> 
> New RCI award status criteria
> ...



In the past I thought the Wyndham Resorts received a higher ranking because of their relationship with RCI.  However, the new rankings appear to  penalized the Wyndham resorts more than others (Bonnet Creek and Palm-Aire and Ka'Eo Kai going from Gold Crown to No ratings or Hospitality).  Is RCI using this to send a message to the other resorts, or are they doing this so Wyndham can hit their owners for a Special Assessment so they can get back their Gold Crown Status.  RCI started a new set of reviews in the last few months of 2007.  Bonnet Creek received almost perfect scores from 8 reviewers and Orbit One received an average of 3 from 7 reviewers.  Bonnet Creek went from Gold Crown to no rating while Orbit One was elevated from Hospitality to Silver Crown.  I wonder how many vacationers will chose to go to Orbit One instead of Bonnet Creek.  Greensprings in Williamsburg also recieved a 3 average from 9 reviewers and they retained their Gold Crown rating.  Makes you wonder.


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## acesneights (Jan 7, 2008)

Will this have an impact with the independents like SFX?

If so, this may be Wyndham's response to the problem of ARP prime weeks  into SFX.

Less GC means less FSP eligible for SFX deposits.

Stan


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## djyamyam (Jan 8, 2008)

acesneights said:


> Will this have an impact with the independents like SFX?



Absolutely!  SFX just lost a bunch of inventory if they continue to stick with their "only gold crown and 5* resorts" philosophy.  I had made this comment in one of my earlier posts (#4).


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## "Roger" (Jan 8, 2008)

Actually they don't have an only gold crown, five star policy.  

They have always traded "high demand" resorts regardless of their status.  (In reverse, just because a resort is gold crown or five star, they won't necessarily take it.)


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## Jim McLaren (Jan 8, 2008)

"Roger" said:


> Actually they don't have an only gold crown, five star policy.
> 
> They have always traded "high demand" resorts regardless of their status.


Roger's right.  SFX will take silver crown in high demand areas.  We own a silver crown resort on HHI and SFX gives us the 3 for 1 bonus.


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## abbekit (Jan 8, 2008)

I didn't ever think about looking to see my resort status on an annual basis.  But like the other Wyndhams it dropped from Gold to Silver this year.  I can't really comment since I never stay there but the RCI reviews are 5 star.  

This is a weeks resort for me so now I'm worried about my trading power.


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## "Roger" (Jan 8, 2008)

The plot thickens.  Now Pahio Bali Hai is showing up Gold Crown.  Two days ago... unrated.


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## lprstn (Jan 30, 2008)

I own with Sheraton Vistana and Wyndam Bonnet Creek, both lost thier original ratings (Sheraton needed to in order to motivate some much needed upgrades) and Bonnet Creek should be rated as GC, but isn't.  The good think is for lower traded resorts, you can now steal a former "GC" that may still be a gem beneath the water.


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## Carolinian (Jan 31, 2008)

On the OBX, the only resort still in sales, Barrier Island Station - Kitty Hawk, dropped from GC to SC.  It is hard to beleive that a developer in sales didn't act to prevent that.  That had to see their numbers down on the monthly reports they get from RCI.

All other movement was upward, with several standard resorts moving to Hospitality, and two of those only missing SC by a hair in one category.


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## Carolinian (Jan 31, 2008)

"Roger" said:


> The plot thickens.  Now Pahio Bali Hai is showing up Gold Crown.  Two days ago... unrated.




One wonders if RCI is now pandering to developers who politick for better numbers on award ratings like they have been doing on RCI Points assignments.  Is this resort still in sales?


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## Mary W (Jan 31, 2008)

*RCI Gold Crown and Active Sales?*

It would be interesting to find out what percentage of Gold Crown resorts are still in active sales.  Also, how many resorts, which dropped in status, are no longer in active sales?


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