# [ Off Time Out ] Did a TUG member get that SVV that sold on eBay tonight



## jjking42 (Aug 20, 2020)

It was 1 bedroom SVV key west unit with seller paying closing. It sold for 575 for 44k star options 

I hope a tug member got it 


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## CPNY (Aug 20, 2020)

jjking42 said:


> It was 1 bedroom SVV key west unit with seller paying closing. It sold for 575 for 44k star options
> 
> I hope a tug member got it
> 
> ...


I can tell you I didn’t. I know they don’t come up that often but I’ll hold off for COVID deals


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## 5finny (Aug 20, 2020)

Other than the scarcity of a 1 Bedroom is this better or worse than a 2 bedroom unit in the same season?


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## jjking42 (Aug 20, 2020)

5finny said:


> Other than the scarcity of a 1 Bedroom is this better or worse than a 2 bedroom unit in the same season?


MF is little less per point but not much


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## CPNY (Aug 20, 2020)

5finny said:


> Other than the scarcity of a 1 Bedroom is this better or worse than a 2 bedroom unit in the same season?


Depends on how many Star Options you want/need. As JJ said above, it’s a little better but not by much.


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## Papa2015 (Aug 20, 2020)

CPNY said:


> I can tell you I didn’t. I know they don’t come up that often but I’ll hold off for COVID deals


Hmm... wonder what you mean by "COVID DEALS".  My husband and I had a conversation last night about when is a good time to buy - now, or when all this is over?  I would imagine now would be the best time, as ppl aren't traveling, not using their TS and just getting rid of them at a low cost.  Thoughts?


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## CPNY (Aug 20, 2020)

Papa2015 said:


> Hmm... wonder what you mean by "COVID DEALS".  My husband and I had a conversation last night about when is a good time to buy - now, or when all this is over?  I would imagine now would be the best time, as ppl aren't traveling, not using their TS and just getting rid of them at a low cost.  Thoughts?


Possibly. I can speak for myself that I intend to keep my timeshares, but my company also announced layoffs coming next month. God forbid I’m affected, I may be cutting down and doing it quickly before the Jan HOA fees are due. I’d keep what I would use in the future and trim the excess (Sometimes I feel I have more than I need anyway). Others may look to just get out in any way they can. Even though these 1 bedrooms don’t come up often, $575 is the price I’ve seen these sell for in the past two years. We are already seeing WKV 2 bedrooms going far below what they normally go for. Other listings may follow the trends and they may not. If prices stay the same then the only difference by not purchasing now is a delay in ownership.


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## pchung6 (Aug 20, 2020)

I was so tempting to bid yesterday.  I'm glad I didn't and hold myself off from this deal.  I know this deal doesn't come often.  With Covid-19 uncertainty, I just need to hold as much cash as possible.  My company announced layoff in coming months and I might very possibly be affected.  I feel price will be low in next few years and there is no reason to rush to purchase now.  Unless Marriott announces the combined program that is really attractive, which I highly doubt.


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## jjking42 (Aug 20, 2020)

I bid on it but stopped at 545. I feel like better deals are coming once MF bills go out 


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## sjsharkie (Aug 21, 2020)

jjking42 said:


> MF is little less per point but not much





CPNY said:


> Depends on how many Star Options you want/need. As JJ said above, it’s a little better but not by much.


I will politely disagree though it does depend on how many options you have.  I have posted on this before -- the SVV 1BR units are your best bang for the buck by far -- and the cost per point different is material (at least to me it is).

1BR Plat annuals have the lowest SO/pt ratio excluding Club Fee.  So if you already own 2 units (or are planning to own multiple units), these are worth the premium paid.  Because maintenance fees are generally calculated by sq footage, and SO options are not, the small units win out.

Here is my analysis of KW based on 2020 maint fees:

Plat KWPointsMF w/o Club*$/SO% prem over 1 BR1BR44000​$         507.72$     0.0115392BR Std81000​$      1,044.97$     0.01290111.8%​2BR LO95700​$      1,378.40$     0.01440324.8%​3BR LO -A139700​$      1,886.12$     0.01350117.0%​

Only when you include the club fee for the first unit does the $/SO become close.  And most people looking at the 1BR units are not just buying a single one -- I have a couple of Kierland units so I spread the club fees over all my units to derive the true $/SO cost.


Plat KWPointsMF w/ club*$/SO% prem over 1 BR1BR44000​$         662.72$     0.0150622BR Std81000​$      1,199.97$     0.014814-1.6%​2BR LO95700​$      1,533.40$     0.0160236.4%​3BR LO -A139700​$      2,041.12$     0.014611-3.0%​

I own several of these units, and I won't rehash what I posted in this thread -- there are cons to this approach, but IMHO, they don't offset the savings over time.








						Star Option Choices
					

So I think I narrowed down that Westin/Sheraton works best for us. So my question is:  1. If I go with a SVV (mandatory) EOYE that comes with say 67k Staroptions can I trade into any West/Sher resort? ie non-mandatory resort. And if so, is it a bad value per point to do so? Im looking for cheap...




					tugbbs.com
				




* note that this does not include taxes.  Unfortunately, I don't have that info for all the units.  That may skew things slightly in the larger units' favor, but likely not enough to offset.

-ryan


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## dioxide45 (Aug 21, 2020)

sjsharkie said:


> * note that this does not include taxes. Unfortunately, I don't have that info for all the units. That may skew things slightly in the larger units' favor, but likely not enough to offset.


Aren't the taxes included in the maintenance fees?


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## carpie99 (Aug 21, 2020)

It was me ... I won the auction.  I have stated before I think these 1BR units are the absolute sweet spot for me.  I already own 5 other Vistana properties so no added fees on this one. 

Low acquistion costs and the lowest MF/point at SVV - I want the flexibility ... I can keep the points and go to WLR in a one bedroom (or combine multiple units) or I can try my luck with Interval and feel pretty good that while there are lower MF Vistana traders they can only be used one way.

Last year I bought 3 of these units (2 EOY ($195 each) and 1 Annual ($395)) from Redweek but had to pay closing costs ... once I saw that this unit is paying closing costs I made the last minute (literally) decision to jump on it.

The only thing I want to do now is sell my fixed week 28 WSJ townhouse _[Ad-like comments removed.]_


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## sjsharkie (Aug 21, 2020)

dioxide45 said:


> Aren't the taxes included in the maintenance fees?


Hi dioxide

Yes, they are included.  However, I don't have that information for all of the other unit sizes and I don't want to do extensive research to get them -- I only know the taxes for the 1BR since that is all that I own, and the financial statements don't provide that info.  FWIW, total fees for the 1BR (except for club fees as applicable) are $610.48 for 2020.

I'd imagine that larger units are taxed at a smaller percentage of the maintenance fees than the 1BR, but that would not be enough to offset the savings.

-ryan


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## sjsharkie (Aug 21, 2020)

carpie99 said:


> It was me ... I won the auction.  I have stated before I think these 1BR units are the absolute sweet spot for me.  I already own 5 other Vistana properties so no added fees on this one.
> 
> Low acquistion costs and the lowest MF/point at SVV - I want the flexibility ... I can keep the points and go to WLR in a one bedroom (or combine multiple units) or I can try my luck with Interval and feel pretty good that while there are lower MF Vistana traders they can only be used one way.
> 
> ...


Congrats!  For those that already own the multiple units, these are the best buy in the system IMHO given the low acquisition costs.  $575 all-in is a steal IMHO as I don't see that many for sale anymore.

QQ, how much is the EOY penalty -- how much extra mf does Vistana charge you versus if you owned 2 EOY vs 1 annual?

-ryan


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## carpie99 (Aug 21, 2020)

sjsharkie said:


> Congrats!  For those that already own the multiple units, these are the best buy in the system IMHO given the low acquisition costs.  $575 all-in is a steal IMHO as I don't see that many for sale anymore.
> 
> QQ, how much is the EOY penalty -- how much extra mf does Vistana charge you versus if you owned 2 EOY vs 1 annual?
> 
> -ryan



There is no EOY penalty at SVV


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## sjsharkie (Aug 21, 2020)

carpie99 said:


> There is no EOY penalty at SVV


Thanks for the info.  Odd, I thought all of the Vistana properties had an additional mf fee tacked on for EOY users -- learned something new today.

-ryan


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## sjsharkie (Aug 21, 2020)

Someone sent me the 2BR LO tax info via email.  It turns out, it makes the 2BR LO even worse of an $/SO value:


Plat KWPointsMF incl taxes$/SO% prem over 1 BR1BR44000​ $         610.48 $     0.0138752BR LO95700​ $      1,568.64 $     0.01639142.0%​

For someone going to Hawaii every year in a 2BR LO, it will cost you $373 more in mf fees at that ratio.  This in comparison to carpie's $575 up front price, makes it pretty easy to make that back even if you were getting a free 2BR LO SVV unit.  Bella has slightly different numbers, but they weren't materially different last time I checked.

-ryan


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## dioxide45 (Aug 21, 2020)

Here is the tax amount for the 2BR dedicated in Bella: $154.05


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## jjking42 (Aug 21, 2020)

carpie99 said:


> It was me ... I won the auction. I have stated before I think these 1BR units are the absolute sweet spot for me. I already own 5 other Vistana properties so no added fees on this one.
> 
> Low acquistion costs and the lowest MF/point at SVV - I want the flexibility ... I can keep the points and go to WLR in a one bedroom (or combine multiple units) or I can try my luck with Interval and feel pretty good that while there are lower MF Vistana traders they can only be used one way.
> 
> ...



Maybe us Tuggers should take turns bidding on eBay units. I imagine that if only one tug member per auction bid we would all get lower prices. 

I am already under contract for one of these units but closing is taking forever so I thought maybe I could get this one closed faster. 

I guess I will wait until WKV 148k drop under 10k and get one of those  


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## carpie99 (Aug 21, 2020)

jjking42 said:


> Maybe us Tuggers should take turns bidding on eBay units. I imagine that if only one tug member per auction bid we would all get lower prices.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



That is probably true ... I am good for now so I won’t be bidding on the next one


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## dioxide45 (Aug 21, 2020)

carpie99 said:


> That is probably true ... I am good for now so I won’t be bidding on the next one


Someone else told me that once  

Trust me. When you see another one, you will be tempted...


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## sjsharkie (Aug 21, 2020)

dioxide45 said:


> Here is the tax amount for the 2BR dedicated in Bella: $154.05


Here is the Bella data per your tax info


PlatPointsMF incl taxes$/SO% prem over 1 BR1BR KW44000​ $         610.48 $     0.0138752BR LO KW95700​ $      1,568.64 $     0.01639142.0%​1BR Bella44000​ $         622.21 $     0.0141412BR Std Bella81000​ $      1,271.42 $     0.01569736.0%​


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## kozykritter (Aug 21, 2020)

sjsharkie said:


> Thanks for the info.  Odd, I thought all of the Vistana properties had an additional mf fee tacked on for EOY users -- learned something new today.
> 
> -ryan


If you only own an EOY and it is mandatory or developer purchased (meaning StarOption eligible), the downside is they charge you the club fee every year instead of just your use year. The rationale given is that you CAN use banked options in any year as well as borrow options from future years so you are considered actively using the club every year even if you don't do those things in actuality.


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## dioxide45 (Aug 21, 2020)

kozykritter said:


> If you only own an EOY and it is mandatory or developer purchased (meaning StarOption eligible), the downside is they charge you the club fee every year instead of just your use year. The rationale given is that you CAN use banked options in any year as well as borrow options from future years so you are considered actively using the club every year even if you don't do those things in actuality.


YOu can also use II membership (which is included in the VSN fee) to trade to be able to travel in non use years.


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## CPNY (Aug 22, 2020)

carpie99 said:


> That is probably true ... I am good for now so I won’t be bidding on the next one


I put a max bid of 565 and lowered it from 600. I guess I’ll stick with what I have


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## jjking42 (Aug 23, 2020)

So my max bid was 545 
CPNY was 565
Carpie99 won at 575

See what I mean if it wasn’t for tug members eBAy prices would be even lower. 


Next time I will post a thread that says 
“ I am bidding on this please don’t bid the price up on me. If you intend to bid please PM me and I will drop out so I don’t drive the price up on you “

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## Theiggy (Aug 23, 2020)

CPNY said:


> I put a max bid of 565 and lowered it from 600. I guess I’ll stick with what I have



Didn’t you recently sell an SVV unit??? 


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## klpca (Aug 23, 2020)

jjking42 said:


> So my max bid was 545
> CPNY was 565
> Carpie99 won at 575
> 
> ...


I would assume that you are *always* bidding with other tuggers. I probably have 5 different searches set up on ebay (old ones - not bidding at the moment because I have to get rid of something else first). If I saw something come along that I really wanted, I would absolutely be bidding. I wasn't interested in this unit, but I did receive the email notification. My search term is "staroptions". I see 'em all


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## Ken555 (Aug 23, 2020)

jjking42 said:


> So my max bid was 545
> CPNY was 565
> Carpie99 won at 575
> 
> ...



Naw... TUG should just get a commission.


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## CPNY (Aug 23, 2020)

Theiggy said:


> Didn’t you recently sell an SVV unit???
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I did! A lockout key west. In the end, I’ll keep what I have


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## vistana101 (Aug 23, 2020)

Woo, congrats! I purchased a similar unit on Ebay several years ago, a two-bedroom EOY Key West for $1, and ended up getting a $6,000 developer credit to upgrade...I'd say it was a good deal


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## CalGalTraveler (Aug 25, 2020)

This is a terrific discussion. I am thinking of buying an EOY if the right price comes along. Since there are no premiums on the MF can I assume that the fee would be the same as annual but split across both years?

I already pay Vistana club fees for WKORVN. What is the incremental fee for a second unit? 

Lastly, how would the points work for a 44k 1 bedroom annual be used? It seems I would need to borrow every year to get a 48k unit. Are there fees associated with borrowing from future years?


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## Eric B (Aug 25, 2020)

Right now it's $50 for the second unit, nothing for additional ones.  I believe the only thing for borrowing is that you have to pay the MF in advance for the future years before you can borrow from them.  As for how they could be used, the VSN escapes would be another option that costs less than 44K (for the most part).


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## dioxide45 (Aug 25, 2020)

CalGalTraveler said:


> This is a terrific discussion. I am thinking of buying an EOY if the right price comes along. Since there are no premiums on the MF can I assume that the fee would be the same as annual but split across both years?
> 
> I already pay Vistana club fees for WKORVN. What is the incremental fee for a second unit?
> 
> Lastly, how would the points work for a 44k 1 bedroom annual be used? It seems I would need to borrow every year to get a 48k unit. Are there fees associated with borrowing from future years?


The maintenance fee would be half of the annual amount every year. THe additional $50 VSN fee would be due every year however. So getting an EOY kind of causes it to lose some of its value. I think I have ever only seen an EOY 44K 1BR week one time. And it is the one that I own.


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## carpie99 (Aug 25, 2020)

CalGalTraveler said:


> This is a terrific discussion. I am thinking of buying an EOY if the right price comes along. Since there are no premiums on the MF can I assume that the fee would be the same as annual but split across both years?
> 
> I already pay Vistana club fees for WKORVN. What is the incremental fee for a second unit?
> 
> Lastly, how would the points work for a 44k 1 bedroom annual be used? It seems I would need to borrow every year to get a 48k unit. Are there fees associated with borrowing from future years?



48K unit isn’t familiar to me. 37K, 44K, 51700, 67100, 81K, 95700 are the ones I know.


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## dioxide45 (Aug 25, 2020)

CalGalTraveler said:


> Lastly, how would the points work for a 44k 1 bedroom annual be used? It seems I would need to borrow every year to get a 48k unit. Are there fees associated with borrowing from future years?


You would get 44K StarOptions every other year.


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## carpie99 (Sep 2, 2020)

Another one just hit eBay today ... I am not bidding on this one 









						SHERATON- VISTANA VILLAGES KEY WEST- 44,000 STAR OPTIONS- ORLANDO- TIMESHARE  | eBay
					

THE SHERATON VISTANA VILLAGES ?. Sheraton Vistana Villages - Key West Villas is a fully equipped, all-villa vacation resort. Located on International Drive, this resort will give you and your family direct access to all the fun and adventurous activities for the ideal family vacation.



					www.ebay.com


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## carpie99 (Sep 4, 2020)

carpie99 said:


> Another one just hit eBay today ... I am not bidding on this one
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Very quiet on this topic


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## sjsharkie (Sep 4, 2020)

carpie99 said:


> Very quiet on this topic


I'm sure people who are bidding will try not to call attention to it.


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## jabberwocky (Sep 4, 2020)

sjsharkie said:


> I'm sure people who are bidding will try not to call attention to it.


You mean like the 2BR plat WKV that is currently up for auction?


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## CPNY (Sep 5, 2020)

carpie99 said:


> Another one just hit eBay today ... I am not bidding on this one
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Why are we calling attention to these units if we aren’t bidding on it? I’m over paying for this one. I set up a snipe for 700


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## CPNY (Sep 5, 2020)

carpie99 said:


> Very quiet on this topic


Isn’t posting these ads against tug rules?


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## Theiggy (Sep 5, 2020)

CPNY said:


> Why are we calling attention to these units if we aren’t bidding on it? I’m over paying for this one. I set up a snipe for 700



I’m making an appointment for you at Timeshares Anonymous 


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## carpie99 (Sep 5, 2020)

CPNY said:


> Isn’t posting these ads against tug rules?



I wouldn’t think so ... it isn’t like this is an ad. The guy selling on eBay isn’t going to come one here and post in the marketplace.


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## CPNY (Sep 5, 2020)

carpie99 said:


> I wouldn’t think so ... it isn’t like this is an ad. The guy selling on eBay isn’t going to come one here and post in the marketplace.


How do we know you’re not the one posting it on eBay


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## dioxide45 (Sep 5, 2020)

carpie99 said:


> I wouldn’t think so ... it isn’t like this is an ad. The guy selling on eBay isn’t going to come one here and post in the marketplace.


While I don't think it is technically against the rules. Perhaps it is just one of those unwritten rules. If you were bidding on one or any auction, would you like people posting it in a wide open forum calling attention to it? I didn't think so.


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## CPNY (Sep 5, 2020)

dioxide45 said:


> While I don't think it is technically against the rules. Perhaps it is just one of those unwritten rules. If you were bidding on one or any auction, would you like people posting it in a wide open forum calling attention to it?


I get it, but I was smacked down by a mod for asking someone what they own In a thread they titled “selling all my timeshares”. So just trying To get a sense of what’s really allowed and what isn’t. I’m out of the auction now anyway, it’s up to 610 already and that’s what too high. But 650 is a good enough snipe lol.


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## controller1 (Sep 5, 2020)

I just viewed the eBay ad for SVV Key West. I wasn't aware "Whale-Watching" was one of the resort amenities available at that location!


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## carpie99 (Sep 5, 2020)

dioxide45 said:


> While I don't think it is technically against the rules. Perhaps it is just one of those unwritten rules. If you were bidding on one or any auction, would you like people posting it in a wide open forum calling attention to it? I didn't think so.



Well the last time we talked about maybe if we knew other TUGGers were willing to go to a certain price we wouldn’t have bid each other up


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## dioxide45 (Sep 5, 2020)

carpie99 said:


> Well the last time we talked about maybe if we knew other TUGGers were willing to go to a certain price we wouldn’t have bid each other up


In the end, if someone is wanting something, they are going to be looking for it. They are going to be willing to pay a certain price regardless. What I don't see necessary is to draw people in that aren't otherwise looking to buy and maybe consider it since it was published here. I don't think people should be required to share their highest bid on here. People that know about the auction are going to pay what they are willing to pay. It just isn't necessary to bring more people into the bidding by advertising Ebay listings on TUG.

One could also wonder, do you own a few of these already and are looking to drive overall prices up when you decide to unload them in a month or so?


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## rickandcindy23 (Sep 5, 2020)

jabberwocky said:


> You mean like the 2BR plat WKV that is currently up for auction?


I cannot bid on that one.  I want to, but Rick would kill me.  It's exactly what is on my wishlist for a timeshare purchase.  We own a lot of weeks at SBP.  It's funny that the salespeople don't even know there is a Myrtle Beach resort in the system.  You tell them, "Hey, I own a lot of Sheraton Broadway Plantation."  Their answer is, "What system is that in?"  That really happened twice now.  TWICE.


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## carpie99 (Sep 5, 2020)

dioxide45 said:


> In the end, if someone is wanting something, they are going to be looking for it. They are going to be willing to pay a certain price regardless. What I don't see necessary is to draw people in that aren't otherwise looking to buy and maybe consider it since it was published here. I don't think people should be required to share their highest bid on here. People that know about the auction are going to pay what they are willing to pay. It just isn't necessary to bring more people into the bidding by advertising Ebay listings on TUG.
> 
> One could also wonder, do you own a few of these already and are looking to drive overall prices up when you decide to unload them in a month or so?



You obviously missed the post where I bought one last week on eBay ... ha ha ha


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## dioxide45 (Sep 5, 2020)

carpie99 said:


> You obviously missed the post where I bought one last week on eBay ... ha ha ha


So you got yours, so now you want to make others possibly overpay for theirs? Because not only do you post it once, you have to circle back around and make sure people REALLY see it!


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## carpie99 (Sep 5, 2020)

dioxide45 said:


> So you got yours, so now you want to make others possibly overpay for theirs? Because not only do you post it once, you have to circle back around and make sure people REALLY see it!



You got me


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## dioxide45 (Sep 5, 2020)

carpie99 said:


> You got me


Then perhaps explain why you opted to post the Ebay listing here? We still don't understand why you did it then made sure to come back again to be sure to call attention to it a second time.


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## carpie99 (Sep 5, 2020)

dioxide45 said:


> Then perhaps explain why you opted to post the Ebay listing here? We still don't understand why you did it then made sure to come back again to be sure to call attention to it a second time.



[Deleted - let's be civil, please.]


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## Eric B (Sep 5, 2020)

carpie99 said:


> Wow you are dense ... maybe so if the TUGGERs that didn’t get the last one wouldn’t miss this one.
> 
> You must be big on conspiracy theories.



a.k.a. drive up the price for those of us that actually notice things and may have bid on them.  Very Many Thanks....


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## carpie99 (Sep 5, 2020)

Eric B said:


> a.k.a. drive up the price for those of us that actually notice things and may have bid on them. Very Many Thanks....



You’re welcome


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## carpie99 (Sep 5, 2020)

jjking42 said:


> So my max bid was 545
> CPNY was 565
> Carpie99 won at 575
> 
> ...



I am thinking others may not be on board with this idea.


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## controller1 (Sep 5, 2020)

carpie99 said:


> You’re welcome



It appears that making friends is not on your to-do list for today!


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## rickandcindy23 (Sep 5, 2020)

Come on, everyone.  This has gotten out of hand.  

No one on TUG is going to share their highest bid with anyone else.  

These are great units and deserve a little competition.  We just usually don't point out the good stuff on TUG.  This is unusual.


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## CPNY (Sep 5, 2020)

carpie99 said:


> I am thinking others may not be on board with this idea.


I don’t think many here think The intention was to help anyone especially with The second post about “quiet on the topic”. Again, not sure what the reasoning for trying very hard to draw attention to the listing. It seems the day you drew attention to it for a second time (after the first failed attempt) the bidding went from 400 to 610.... not sure who that is helping. Congrats, it is currently bidding higher than what you paid for yours..... but also less than what I paid for my first two.


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## CPNY (Sep 5, 2020)

rickandcindy23 said:


> Come on, everyone.  This has gotten out of hand.
> 
> No one on TUG is going to share their highest bid with anyone else.
> 
> These are great units and deserve a little competition.  We just usually don't point out the good stuff on TUG.  This is unusual.


More frustrating when they already won the last auction a week ago. Let those of us in the market who are searching do our work and find the auctions.


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## carpie99 (Sep 5, 2020)

Maybe this post should be against the TUG rules. I promise not to ever share an eBay sighting again. 

I wonder if people feel the same about the sightings forum? I mean what if I hadn’t had a chance to do my regular interval search and someone ruined it by posting it.


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## CPNY (Sep 5, 2020)

carpie99 said:


> Maybe this post should be against the TUG rules. I promise not to ever share an eBay sighting again.
> 
> I wonder if people feel the same about the sightings forum? I mean what if I hadn’t had a chance to do my regular interval search and someone ruined it by posting it.


Different situation. People pay for membership for sightings...... that’s availability... not a sale listing. Also, if this was placed in the buying/selling forum completely different. Personally I think posting listings (I’m guilty of it) in public forums really does ruin it for the People who really want the unit. If you’re looking out for someone who expressed interest in that unit in the past then a DM would be a better option. As that would help that person out the most. I don’t need the unit, I wanted it so I can then sell the 2 bedroom I have. I’m not paying the price it’s up to now thats for sure.


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## carpie99 (Sep 5, 2020)

CPNY said:


> Different situation. People pay for membership for sightings...... that’s availability... not a sale listing. Also, if this was placed in the buying/selling forum completely different. Personally I think posting listings (I’m guilty of it) in public forums really does ruin it for the People who really want the unit. If you’re looking out for someone who expressed interest in that unit in the past then a DM would be a better option. As that would help that person out the most. I don’t need the unit, I wanted it so I can then sell the 2 bedroom I have. I’m not paying the price it’s up to now thats for sure.



No, it is exactly the same. For instance I want a Nanea 2 bedroom. Through Interval I can use my $611 1 bedroom +$159booking+$99upgrade. Now that someone has alerted the masses to the availability of something I want I may have to use 148,100 star options at $2400 if maintenance fees.


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## Eric B (Sep 5, 2020)

Perhaps it would be more similar if there were a private forum like the sightings one where one wouldn't be alerting all the masses to the eBay listing, but instead just TUG members.  There is also the difference in ownership and exchange/rental of the underlying property.

Like @CPNY, I'm no longer going to bid on this one because the price has gone up.  As a matter of fact, if these weeks keep getting touted widely and increase in cost, I'm unlikely to pick one up because it hurts the payback period to have to throw more in the purchase price, so the net result is probably beneficial to me.  It still feels like there was a shill in this auction to me personally, though....


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## LovinTheTropics (Sep 5, 2020)

I think everyone on this thread is overthinking it..... 
people will pay what they will pay.... it's not difficult to find ebay listings
I bid on this at $650 and got outbid.... that was my max...
some say that's too high... but for me.... I would gladly pay it and then dump my one bedroom Lagunamar, which has $1,091/yr in fees
for this unit, which is under $800...
perspective
it's quicker to find ebay listings straight up on ebay than to search these forums


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## carpie99 (Sep 5, 2020)

Eric B said:


> Perhaps it would be more similar if there were a private forum like the sightings one where one wouldn't be alerting all the masses to the eBay listing, but instead just TUG members. There is also the difference in ownership and exchange/rental of the underlying property.
> 
> Like @CPNY, I'm no longer going to bid on this one because the price has gone up. As a matter of fact, if these weeks keep getting touted widely and increase in cost, I'm unlikely to pick one up because it hurts the payback period to have to throw more in the purchase price, so the net result is probably beneficial to me. It still feels like there was a shill in this auction to me personally, though....



Well I can only tell you there was no shill ... that really makes no sense considering I just bout the exact same thing that is for sale. You can be sure I will definitely not bother alerting TUG on future sighting. Which is guess is what all the complainers were trying to do anyway so.


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## DeniseM (Sep 5, 2020)

After 3+ reports, this thread is on a time-out until tomorrow.


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## grrrah (Sep 9, 2020)

In carpie's defense, I come to Tug to learn (mostly), and I learned a lot in this thread and got good examples from the links. I promise not to drive the price up on any auctions (yet), but maybe next year.  If you are trying to minimize competition down the road, oops sorry.

That said, what is a typical closing costs?  It seams like the original auction had about a $2-300 or so premium, so guessing that is roughly the closing costs that one is trying to save?


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## sjsharkie (Sep 9, 2020)

I will also support Carpie here.  I shared costs per SO for 1BR units in the hopes to educate others that may want to purchase as others have before me.

Selfishly, I could just keep these to myself, but I think sharing sightings of units on eBay are also fair game.  Others may feel otherwise, but there are far more people outside of TUG that are bidding on these same auctions.

Just my 2 cents.



grrrah said:


> That said, what is a typical closing costs?  It seams like the original auction had about a $2-300 or so premium, so guessing that is roughly the closing costs that one is trying to save?


Depends on the auction.  If you used LT Transfers, it would be about $150 + recording + $25 transfer -- let's say $225 or less all-in.  But these auction typically use their own closing company so you are at the mercy of what they want to charge.

-ryan


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## pharmacistking (Sep 9, 2020)

sjsharkie said:


> I will also support Carpie here.  I shared costs per SO for 1BR units in the hopes to educate others that may want to purchase as others have before me.
> 
> Selfishly, I could just keep these to myself, but I think sharing sightings of units on eBay are also fair game.  Others may feel otherwise, but there are far more people outside of TUG that are bidding on these same auctions.
> 
> ...



I think this is a community to share. To learn. And to have fun. Who can buy all these TS anyways? Orlando is overbuilt. There will be other like these.  I love seeing sightings from auction to steer me in the right direction.


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## carpie99 (Sep 9, 2020)

grrrah said:


> In carpie's defense, I come to Tug to learn (mostly), and I learned a lot in this thread and got good examples from the links. I promise not to drive the price up on any auctions (yet), but maybe next year. If you are trying to minimize competition down the road, oops sorry.
> 
> That said, what is a typical closing costs? It seams like the original auction had about a $2-300 or so premium, so guessing that is roughly the closing costs that one is trying to save?



The one I bought before off of Redweek for $395 I had to pay $350 in closing costs. 

So $660 all in is in my opinion a deal.


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## dioxide45 (Sep 9, 2020)

sjsharkie said:


> I will also support Carpie here.  I shared costs per SO for 1BR units in the hopes to educate others that may want to purchase as others have before me.
> 
> Selfishly, I could just keep these to myself, but I think sharing sightings of units on eBay are also fair game.  Others may feel otherwise, but there are far more people outside of TUG that are bidding on these same auctions.
> 
> ...


While there may be more people bidding on these auctions outside of TUG. I attribute the increase in prices to the discussion here on TUG. Just a couple years ago these would sell for $1 on Ebay and elsewhere. People didn't learn of the value from nowhere, it would have come from here. Not saying it is right, wrong or indifferent. Just my observation. There are a lot more people that read these forums than post.


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## needvaca (Sep 9, 2020)

I stayed quiet on this recent eBay sighting after I mentioned one a few months ago. 
From what I’ve seen, this unit comes available every couple months or so on eBay or Redweek, so hopefully everyone who wants one can eventually get one


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## dioxide45 (Sep 9, 2020)

sjsharkie said:


> Here is the Bella data per your tax info
> 
> 
> PlatPointsMF incl taxes$/SO% prem over 1 BR1BR KW44000​$         610.48$     0.0138752BR LO KW95700​$      1,568.64$     0.01639142.0%​1BR Bella44000​$         622.21$     0.0141412BR Std Bella81000​$      1,271.42$     0.01569736.0%​


Looking back at this, I don't think your % premiums over a 1BR are correct. If you are looking at the 1BR and 2BR Bella, the difference is only about one and a half tenths of a cent per SO. that works out to only about a 10% premium. In the grand scheme of things, it works out to only about $12 more a year to own the 2BR. So you could possibly own two 1BR units for about the same annual MF as a single 2BR and get an extra 7,000 StarOptions.

You are also comparing the 2BR LO at Key West instead of just the dedicated unit which I has a better MF/SO ratio.


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## sjsharkie (Sep 9, 2020)

dioxide45 said:


> Looking back at this, I don't think your % premiums over a 1BR are correct. If you are looking at the 1BR and 2BR Bella, the difference is only about one and a half tenths of a cent per SO. that works out to only about a 10% premium. In the grand scheme of things, it works out to only about $12 more a year to own the 2BR. So you could possibly own two 1BR units for about the same annual MF as a single 2BR and get an extra 7,000 StarOptions.
> 
> You are also comparing the 2BR LO at Key West instead of just the dedicated unit which I has a better MF/SO ratio.


You are right on the percentages.  They were based on a constant that wasn't correct.  I don't follow the $12 math, but it you aren't far off (I calculate ~$27 more per year).

I am happy to include other comparisons, but I don't have the actual tax data to provide it.  It wasn't intended to be misleading; it only shows what the comparative prices are so that others can make a better decision.

The best way (IMHO) to compare is to average in terms of how you plan to use it.  If you are booking a 2BR annually in Hawaii, it will cost you an additional $269.84 per annum to own 2BR Std vs 1BR.  To me, with the low entry cost of all of these Orlando mandatory units, it seems wise if you are going to book at least an annual 2BR, to go this route.  You will likely have a break-even point of under 3 years.

-ryan


PlatPointsMF incl taxes$/SO% prem over 1 BR1BR KW44000​$         610.48$     0.0138752BR LO KW95700​$      1,568.64$     0.01639118.1%​1BR Bella44000​$         622.21$     0.0141412BR Std Bella81000​$      1,271.42$     0.01569713.1%​


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## carpie99 (Sep 10, 2020)

The other benefit of the 1Bed in addition to the MF/SO still being able to use it as a low cost II trader as well.


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## Eric B (Nov 6, 2020)

A 1 BR SVV KW just sold on eBay for $1,225.  Last month one went for $1,001.  Prices seem to be going up on these....


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## dioxide45 (Nov 6, 2020)

Eric B said:


> A 1 BR SVV KW just sold on eBay for $1,225.  Last month one went for $1,001.  Prices seem to be going up on these....


I suspect a shill on this and the last one. The last one that went for $1,001 is from the same seller. Perhaps even the same week. The bidding history on the latest one looks highly suspect.


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## Eric B (Nov 6, 2020)

Seller on both was J&J Timeshares, who is on TUG.


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## controller1 (Nov 6, 2020)

Eric B said:


> Seller on both was J&J Timeshares, who is on TUG.



Yes, J&J joined (not a member) TUG in March 2020 and resurrected an old thread which was closed the next day. That is the only post and hasn't signed on since May 2020.


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## Eric B (Nov 6, 2020)

There’s also @andrewjjtimeshare, who periodically posts free ones.  He’s still active - just posted a few more the other day.


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## sjsharkie (Nov 6, 2020)

I've bought several timeshares over the years from J&J.  If it is the same one, they are reputable in terms of my experience.

-ryan


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## Eric B (Nov 6, 2020)

So have I.  Seems odd seeing the results of those auctions, though.


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## sjsharkie (Nov 6, 2020)

eBay has automated controls in place to detect and ban shill bidding.  Could someone get away with it once or twice -- probably.  Many times, unlikely without getting caught.  If it is the same J&J seller that I've bought from over the years, I can't imagine they would be able to get away with it for an extended period of time.

I recently purchased from them in August 2020 for under $10 purchase price.  Clearly no shill bidding there... it didn't pass ROFR, but I received the letter directly from Marriott so I know it was legitimately taken.

My two cents.  Others have their opinions as well.

-ryan


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## Eric B (Nov 6, 2020)

I agree with you on my experiences with them.  Only posted about those two sales because of the higher prices.  Glad I got mine earlier.


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## dioxide45 (Nov 6, 2020)

Looking at the feedback counts on the bids between both auctions, they are many of the same bidders. Let's be honest, EBay doesn't monitor for shill bidding. Shill bidding helps increase the end bid of an auction, helping increase Ebay fees. Confirmed by looking at the week/unit number between both auctions that they are both the same week for sale. *Perpetual Deed (Week#39 Unit#15406)*


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## CPNY (Nov 6, 2020)

If the prices are going this high it might be time to list...... looking at the bidding history, it’s the same bidders on both auctions driving the prices up. I’d expect so see this listed again in a week


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## pchung6 (Nov 6, 2020)

If the price is this high, I might consider to sell my SVVs soon.  Anyone knows any difference in price between Key West and Bella?


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## dioxide45 (Nov 6, 2020)

pchung6 said:


> If the price is this high, I might consider to sell my SVVs soon.  Anyone knows any difference in price between Key West and Bella?


Very little since there is very little difference in the MF to SO ratio.


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## nadz786 (Nov 6, 2020)

Hello everyone, from looking at some of the resales on red week the maintenance fees are all over the place. Any ideas why?

For example there is a 2 bedroom at SVV with 81k staroptions for $1271 MF but another of what appears to be the same unit and staroptions has a MF of roughly $1700.

Any ideas for the major discrepancy?

Thanks


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## dioxide45 (Nov 6, 2020)

nadz786 said:


> Hello everyone, from looking at some of the resales on red week the maintenance fees are all over the place. Any ideas why?
> 
> For example there is a 2 bedroom at SVV with 81k staroptions for $1271 MF but another of what appears to be the same unit and staroptions has a MF of roughly $1700.
> 
> ...


That $1700 2BR is probably the 2BR lock off with the VSN fee being included and the $1271 is the 2BR dedicated unit without the VSN fee included.


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## CPNY (Nov 6, 2020)

nadz786 said:


> Hello everyone, from looking at some of the resales on red week the maintenance fees are all over the place,. Any ideas why?
> 
> For example there is a 2 bedroom at SVV with 81k staroptions for $1271 MF but another of what appears to be the same unit and staroptions has a MF of roughly $1700.
> 
> ...


Lockout gold vs standard platinum. Stay away from lockout worth 81K SO or a standard with 67K


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## timesharepro (Nov 11, 2020)

dioxide45 said:


> Looking at the feedback counts on the bids between both auctions, they are many of the same bidders. Let's be honest, EBay doesn't monitor for shill bidding. Shill bidding helps increase the end bid of an auction, helping increase Ebay fees. Confirmed by looking at the week/unit number between both auctions that they are both the same week for sale. *Perpetual Deed (Week#39 Unit#15406)*



John Kushman here, Andrew's manager and owner of J & J Timeshare (And Resort Closings/Timeshare Specialists/BuyAndSellTimeshares.com). We do not do any shill bidding on our auctions. Complete waste of our time. I would have much rather completed the first auction and get the file closed and onto the next one.  Instead Andrew has to relist the auction, answer questions for another week, and redraft documents. The closing agent holds the file for another week, and potentially has to respond to the owner explaining what has happened, instead of saying "We are ready to close, look for transfer confirmation from me in another week or two." 

eBays fees for real estate are not based on final value. It costs $35 for an insertion fee and $35 when it sells. There are additional fees for Bold, or more pictures, etc., but final bid price does not increase the amount of fees charged by eBay.

The first auction ended with a high bid from an ebayer with zero feedback who joined ebay on September 6, 2020. They never responded with their information so after 10 days we relisted the auction, and blocked the non-responsive high bidder. There were 7 different bidders on each auction. 6 of the bidders were on both auctions. The first auction winner didn't bid on the second auction. We did block them so we don't know if he even tried bidding.  They were the same 6 bidders because it is rare inventory that numerous people were interested in.

As far as bidding history looking suspect, it helps to understand how automatic bids are placed.  https://www.ebay.com/help/buying/bidding/automatic-bidding?id=4014

See attached print out of how the bidding went down. I have whited out the middle of the bidders IDs. You can still see the bidders who did bid, and how the automatic bids were placed. I suspect that the high bidder on the second auction was using a sniper bid service because his bid came in during the last 10 seconds of the auction.  

Happy to answer any other questions.


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## robertk2012 (Mar 23, 2021)

timesharepro said:


> John Kushman here, Andrew's manager and owner of J & J Timeshare (And Resort Closings/Timeshare Specialists/BuyAndSellTimeshares.com). We do not do any shill bidding on our auctions. Complete waste of our time. I would have much rather completed the first auction and get the file closed and onto the next one.  Instead Andrew has to relist the auction, answer questions for another week, and redraft documents. The closing agent holds the file for another week, and potentially has to respond to the owner explaining what has happened, instead of saying "We are ready to close, look for transfer confirmation from me in another week or two."
> 
> eBays fees for real estate are not based on final value. It costs $35 for an insertion fee and $35 when it sells. There are additional fees for Bold, or more pictures, etc., but final bid price does not increase the amount of fees charged by eBay.
> 
> ...


I just saw this....funny as many of those bids were me.


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