# [2012] BMW 5 Series or Lexus ES 350



## capjak (Apr 28, 2012)

Buying a used car and am having a hard time deciding between BMW and Lexus.

2009 BMW 528 XDrive ($30K) 60,000 miles (MSRP originally $54K)

2008 Lexus ES 350 Pebble Beach Edition ($25K) 50,000 miles (MSRP originall $41K)

Both loaded Nav, etc...

Both certified.

What is your OP?


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## Sandi Bo (Apr 28, 2012)

DH loves his 2007 Lexus 350.  We bought it used (certified).  Whenever he drives my Honda CRV (which is only because he likes to take the dog places and poor Smokey isn't allowed in the Lexus), all I hear is 'I just couldn't live like this, you mean you have to use a key',  'I just coudn't live like this, you mean you have to turn your headlights on', etc?

He gets 30 mpg on the highway and 20 mpg in town (better than my CRV). 

Getting it certified, we felt like we were getting a new car for 1/2 price. It was in excellent condition, and anything with 50% or more wear and tear was replaced. I was disapointed when the battery went bad after 2 years and they wouldn't stand behind it(that tells me it had less than 1/2 life left when we bought it, but they wouldn't negotiate - $170 something for a new battery).

Only downside, it is pricey to have Lexus work on it. Very pricey, and there are some things only Lexus can do. That keyless fob -- don't ever lose it...


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## vacationhopeful (Apr 28, 2012)

Buy a new Ford for less money verses a 5 year old car. Both have 4 wheels.


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## DaveNV (Apr 28, 2012)

I'm a bit partial, for obvious avatar reasons   But I'd still say go with the BMW.  If you drive both cars, you'll instantly feel the difference.  The 5 Series will be a better built car, and give you a better driving experience.  The X Drive will be a lot better in Chicago winters.  You'll feel it when you're behind the wheel.

Dave


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## jme (Apr 28, 2012)

Lexus. 

read the reviews on reliability, service issues, total satisfaction,etc. BMW's are cool, look cool, but have issues. I gave my wife an LX470 (biggest Lexus SUV) five+ years ago, and it's the best vehicle on the road. Would buy another in a heartbeat.  

Looked at X5's for my son who is in grad school, but settled on an Acura MDX because of same issues. He adores it. Always a thing about Beemers, but I look at more than emotion. They're fine vehicles, but are beat by others in certain areas.  check it out. 

I will always vote Lexus....very luxurious, and I know they ride smoother.


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## thilmony (Apr 28, 2012)

they say american and european cars are better than they used to be, but the quality of a japanese car beats everything else every time.

if you buy the BMW, i'm sure the warranty will cover the issues but I'd rather drive my car where i want to go, not to the dealer.  

i've had 3 lexus, and i'd have to use the navigation to find the dealer as I never go there.

when buying a BMW, stop by the service department and introduce yourself to the service manager - also grab a big stack of his biz card, you'll be glad you did.


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## DaveNV (Apr 28, 2012)

Wow, you guys are pretty sold on your cars.  I must be a real exception to the "get to know the service department" thing.  My household has owned four different BMWs over the years, (we currently own two), and none of them has ever had mechanical issues.  And as I think of it, nobody I know who owns a BMW has had issues either.

The X5 I'm currently driving is nine years old, and still turns heads on the street.  People at my work keep bugging me to buy a newer one so they can buy mine.

Go figure...   

Dave


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## Elan (Apr 28, 2012)

If you like to drive, buy the BMW.


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## Talent312 (Apr 28, 2012)

JD Power ranks Lexus higher than BMW in overall customer satisfaction.
My brother switched from BMW to Acura recently. I prefer his new one.
For whaver that's worth...


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## ricoba (Apr 28, 2012)

I know prices vary by locale, but those prices seem high to me, for higher mileage cars.

I know you didn't mention a Benz, but it is a comparable to the other two. We purchased a 2005 MB E500 last December with 31K miles at just under $20K.

If it were me, I guess cuz I am cheap, I'd look for a bit older with fewer miles (for me, I'd always look under 50,000 miles).

BTW, I also like to Ford suggestion!  Get a nice newer Taurus SHO! 

But if I just chose one of the two you listed, I'd go for the Beemer over the fancy Camry!!!


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## Elan (Apr 28, 2012)

Talent312 said:


> JD Power ranks Lexus higher than BMW in overall customer satisfaction.
> My brother switched from BMW to Acura recently. I prefer his new one.
> For whaver that's worth...



  I wonder if JD Power ever hit 120mph in a sedan?


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## DaveNV (Apr 28, 2012)

Elan said:


> I wonder if JD Power ever hit 120mph in a sedan?



And consider that the BMW the OP mentions is an X-Drive, which means four wheel drive.  I believe the Lexus ES is front wheel drive only.  The Lexus ES class is considered comparable to a BMW 3 Series, so the 5 Series will be a larger, heavier car, with more room for passengers and luggage.  

If the only choice is these two cars, I guess it depends on what the OP wants to do with it.  I know what I like, but this isn't about me.  

Dave


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## Elan (Apr 28, 2012)

Here's what Car & Driver says in their 2009 review of the ES350:

  "It has one of the most Zen-like driving experiences on the road, but the ES350 won’t raise your pulse one beat, making it hard for the car to make friends here at C/D . Additionally, $35,000 is a high price for what is essentially a Camry, and a fully loaded ES350 can reach almost $50,000, or roughly double the price of a Camry with leather."

  If one's after a $30K "no thrills" driving experience, why not just buy a new Camry?


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## Ken555 (Apr 28, 2012)

I had a 2008 528i and I think it was a fantastic car. Last year I drove about a dozen cars searching for a replacement, including Lexus, and the only ones which stayed on my list were VW, Mercedes, BMW and Audi. All due to performance and handling. I was quite disappointed in Lexus, though my brother and lots of friends have them and love them. 

Asking a forum like TUG for opinions on cars is just asking for a zillion opinions. What type of car do you like to drive, etc? Without context, I have to agree with others that four wheels will get you to your destination, so buy the least expensive metal possible. On the other hand, I infer you desire some luxury since both BMW and Lexus produce luxury autos, which means Ford is simply a silly and inappropriate suggestion.

I got a Mercedes last year, and think it's fine, but not outstanding. Just last week I drove the new BMW 328i Sport edition and the new 528i for comparison. I'm very tempted to get rid of my new Mercedes and buy a 3-year old certified 528. The overall performance and reliability of the BMW was superb (however, I haven't had any problems whatsoever with my MB yet). As for the comments about reliability, we have a a 89 3-series BMW in the family and other than standard maintenance and the radio failing, it's been an extremely reliable car. Any European car will be more expensive to maintain than American (or even perhaps Japanese). But, you get what you pay for, just like timeshares. And I like Starwood and Four Seasons, and don't particularly enjoy others. It's all about what you want in a car.


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## ada903 (Apr 28, 2012)

We have just been through this same question, BMW vs Lexus, both my husband and myself.  I have decided to buy a Lexus ES350 new, and my husband decided to buy a three year old BMW 740i sports.

My struggle was between the rational side - telling me to buy the Lexus - and my heart - I love driving and love BMW.  I did the rational thing for reliability and quality issues and bought the Lexus.  It is a great comfy drive but a very boring drive, no fun.  If I could choose again, I would not buy it.  I am going to keep it till I pay it off and then buy what I love.

Hubby bought a lightly used 740i sports and I am salivating every time I look at it.  Oh well.

I guess it depends what matters mostly to you.  If you want reliability, dependability, quiet, comfort, lower maintenance cost, go with Lexus.  If you want to live a little, go with BMW.  The Lexus shop calls it "the ultimate repair machine".  To give you our point of reference, hubby had a 2003 X5 and between 2006 and 2011 we put $18,000 in repairs in it.  It was unbelievable, everything went wrong on it.

By the way, I drove the Camry - it's not the same thing, the Lexus may be in a well-cushioned Camry, but that "well-cushioned" makes the heck of a difference.


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## Elan (Apr 28, 2012)

The thing is, regardless of preference, I don't really see these cars as comparable.  If I were interested in a Camry based Lexus, I'd be comparing it to a Passat, an Accord, an Altima, a Sonata, or maybe even a Ford Fusion.  Those cars are much more comparable than the 5 series.


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## Steve (Apr 29, 2012)

*BMW*

I love my BMW 528 x-drive.  I've had it for nearly 3 years, and it is a wonderful car that definitely turns heads.  If you want a little fun and you like to drive, buy the BMW.  

Steve


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## capjak (Apr 29, 2012)

A little more background:

I really liked the drive/feel of the BMW 328 xdrive but was informed by my better half that the backseat is very small...so started looking at the 528 which I like as well.

We have had 2 Lexus' in the past and both were very good cars at 150,000 miles.  However I was looking for something a little different.

I drove the GS350 which I liked and the ES350 which I liked as well mainly for the reliability and comfort/luxury.

My concern with the BMW was mainly around reliability and cost of upkeep as I have been told due to the precision engineering etc..it costs a lot to maintain.

The Lexus was basically change the oil etc for 10year never a real issue with the cars.

So inside I like the BMW but my Brain says you should buy the Lexus for the reliability, I am concerned I am going to be spending too much time in the BMW service department.


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## DaveNV (Apr 29, 2012)

capjak said:


> A little more background:
> 
> I really liked the drive/feel of the BMW 328 xdrive but was informed by my better half that the backseat is very small...so started looking at the 528 which I like as well.
> 
> ...




Thanks for the new information.  Other than the high mileage, has either of these cars ever had mechanical problems?  Have you seen a CarFax on them?  How many owners have they had?  Have you contacted a dealer for both brands to ask what sort of maintenance or scheduled service may be coming up?

I checked the website of a trusted car dealer in my area, and they're offering a couple of choices for similar prices, but with much lower mileage.  That's not saying your two cars aren't worth the money, but miles are miles, right?  To give you some bargaining power, you may want to compare what you're looking at with the inventory at this dealership:  http://www.autotrader.com/dealers/d...=make_modelASC&car_id=null&result_car_id=null

Good luck with your decision!

Dave


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## glypnirsgirl (Apr 29, 2012)

I love to drive. I would prefer the BMW over the Lexus. 

A Lexus feels "numb" to me --- like you are isolated from the road.

I grew up driving a Volvo and I am used to feedback. I like "feeling the road." 

I think that the BMW has hit a real sweet spot of road feel and comfort. 

elaine


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## antjmar (Apr 29, 2012)

capjak said:


> A little more background:
> 
> I really liked the drive/feel of the BMW 328 xdrive but was informed by my better half that the backseat is very small...so started looking at the 528 which I like as well.
> 
> ...



For the most driving "pleasure" go BMW  ...
For long term lower maintenance and high resale costs Id say go Lexus...
Since it sounds like you keep your cars a long time... I hate to say this (I'm a German car fan)  Lexus is the better choice!


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## SpikeMauler (Apr 29, 2012)

Bought my 530i new 9 years ago. Loved the way it drove. The transmission went with a week left on the warranty. Replaced the transmission and traded it in for an Infinity M35x(didnt handle as well as the BMW but had nicer interior and more horses). We looked at the ES 350 a couple years ago. Really wasnt crazy about it (aesthetics wise). I dont think I'll ever buy a BMW again, but I would lease one.


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## NJDave (Apr 29, 2012)

Sandi Bo said:


> Only downside, it is pricey to have Lexus work on it. Very pricey, and there are some things only Lexus can do. That keyless fob -- don't ever lose it...



You can get some parts and repairs at Toyota for less.  The engine in the ES 350 is the same as the upgraded Camry engine. If you want to use a dealer for OEM parts, some parts such as brakes and wipers are the same too.


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## ada903 (Apr 29, 2012)

http://money.cnn.com/galleries/2012/autos/1204/gallery.car-deals-expert-picks.moneymag/index.html

Scroll to second choice.


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## jme (Apr 29, 2012)

jme said:


> Lexus.
> 
> read the reviews on reliability, service issues, total satisfaction,etc. BMW's are cool, look cool, but have issues. I gave my wife an LX470 (biggest Lexus SUV) five+ years ago, and it's the best vehicle on the road. Would buy another in a heartbeat.
> 
> ...



After reading all the opinions, I still believe my first post sums it up rather succinctly.


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## thilmony (Apr 29, 2012)

ada903 said:


> http://money.cnn.com/galleries/2012/autos/1204/gallery.car-deals-expert-picks.moneymag/index.html
> 
> Scroll to second choice.



to me that's an insane list. the only one i would ever consider is the subaru, and only if there was special financing or a rebate to take advantage of.


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## capjak (Apr 29, 2012)

With a little more research I have found that the 5 series years I was looking at had only a 3 star crash test for the driver which is as low as I have seen.

Which means if I want the BMW I need to either get the redesign 2011/2012 or downsize to the 3 series which had a better safety/crash test rating.

The redesign BMW 5 series in 2011 got the highest rating.

I also really like the redesign 2012 3 series that gets 22 city and 34 highway mpg with all the performance.


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## Ken555 (Apr 29, 2012)

I test drove the 2012 328 sport just a week or so ago. Nice ride. I even liked the heads up display, and believe the nav and display was much, much better than the last few years. I've always been happy with the tech in BMWs and that, combined with a great ride, will likely win me back to them soon.


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## Deb from NC (Apr 30, 2012)

My 2 cents...
Both are fine cars, I think it just comes down to what you like better.  DH had a BMW 5 series forever and it was trouble free.  He loved it, but the ride was a little too stiff for me.  (I had an Acura TL and actually liked it better than his BMW).  He now drives a Lexus LS430 ..loves the ride, but misses the handling.
I bought a 3 year old Mercedes E350 (25,000 miles) and think it's a nice combination of good handling and comfort.  I've had it 3 years now, and take it in once a year for routine maintenance.  But I'm not sure I like it any better than I did my Acura!  I also think Infiniti has some nice cars....


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## pedro47 (Apr 30, 2012)

jme said:


> After reading all the opinions, I still believe my first post sums it up rather succinctly.



One more vote for the Lexus 350 model. She is very nice to drive on the open hgwy.


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## Passepartout (Apr 30, 2012)

In either case you are discussing a depreciating asset. Like timeshares, no matter how desirable or luxurious, they lose value. If you go by the asking price vs the MSRP, the Bimmer lost $24,000 in 3 years, and the Toyota/Lexus took 4 years to cost it's owner $16,000. The Bimmer was twice as expensive in terms of depreciation. Neither have much, if any, warranty left. I'd take a small, unspecified side wager that the BMW will continue to drain it's owner's assets at a more brisk pace than the Lexus. Maybe it's more fun to drive, but twice as much?

I have no dog in this fight, I'm a truck guy and neither of these will pull a trailer. I'd take the same amount of money and buy a brand new Fusion or Camry. Or better yet, Prius (thx Deb).

Jim


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## Deb from NC (Apr 30, 2012)

With gas prices these days, I'm about ready to trade mine in on a (used ) Prius!


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## Sea Six (Apr 30, 2012)

I'd take a 460 over a 528, but I'd take the 528 over the 350.


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## capjak (May 19, 2012)

Conclusion:

2009/2010 Infinity G37x (eliminated felt cramped in drivers seat & had some negative input on factory support) 

Acura TL 2009 (eliminated did not like the exterior look)

2011 BMW 3-series- liked it but felt for now need more room, like to 2012 better but no xdrive yet

2009/2010 BMW 5-series-liked it but did not like the 535 issues and crash test results for 2009 model, 2011/2012 would be good but too much cash right now

2009 Audi A-6-nice car but could not find one in price range with Nav

2011 Volvo S60-nice car a little on small side

2013 Ford Taurus- nice car, doesn't have the Branding of lux (2013 better than 2012) hard to see out back

2012 Toyota Camry-nice car, like Lexus better

2012 Buick LaCrosse-very nice, 40K new loaded and a dashboard is like a airplane cockpit, knobs,lights all over the place

2011 Lexus ES350- I bought this one, it had 15,000 miles and very lux, I will wait 3 years and maybe get the BMW 5 Series 2011/2012 when they come off lease.  But happy for now, it drives very Lux with all the toys (nav/sat/etc..)


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## DaveNV (May 19, 2012)

capjak said:


> Conclusion:
> 
> 2009/2010 Infinity G37x (eliminated felt cramped in drivers seat & had some negative input on factory support)
> 
> ...




Jack, I want to commend you for your exhaustive research in this.  The numerous replies in this thread gave you a lot of things to consider, I'm sure, and shows this couldn't have been an easy choice.  Many, many other people would have gone for name brand or pretty paint or price point, and stopped there.  That you went to such lengths is a credit to your perseverance and good intentions.  I wish you a great ownership, and a very positive experience with your new (to you) car.  Congrats!  

Dave


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## ricoba (May 19, 2012)

Enjoy your new to you car!  

You sure did a lot of test driving.


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## capjak (Jul 15, 2013)

1 year later still like the ES350 (do not like the Light interior, I got a white exterior with tan leather inside) It gets marks on the leather too easy.

Today the bad news I got a tear in the back seat leather.....

My wife is ready to trade her Lexus RX350 (11 years old with 165,000 miles) still runs like new, but leaks oil and she is supposed me driving a newer car for work (gets car credit for work).  The plan is to give her the ES 350 and for me to go get another car......so here we go again.


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## wik004 (Jul 19, 2015)

*BMW versus Lexus ES*

I found this thread when I did a blanket Google search for "2008 Lexus ES350 Pebble Beach Edition" 

The OP is comparing it to 2009 528 X drive in the thread from over 3 years ago.

I was recently forced to replace 2001 BMW 330i with 2008 Lexus ES350 Pebble Beach Edition when the bimmer was totaled through no fault of my own. 

I can understand both avid BMW 3 or 5 series fans as well as Lexus ES fans. My previous to 330i was 2001 ES300.

One of these days, I will fulfill my dream of owning a BMW again and experience the ultimate driving pleasure. For now, I have to live with the very coushiony and more economical ES350.


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## Glynda (Jul 19, 2015)

*BMW vrs Lexus*

Lexus.  We have owned a couple of BMW's that had problems, one pretty major, and we also found service/maintenance was very expensive.  At the time we switched to Lexus (we've owned eight over the last twenty-three years) the BMW's and Mercedes did not offer nearly the features for the money. And then there is the reliability and safety ratings. We compared the Mercedes the last time we bought and still found the Lexus offered more for our money. The reliability has been key for us.  Of the eight we've had, only one time have we had a problem.  That was back in the early 1990's when there was condensation under one front headlamp.  That's it.  We have never had to complain about a single thing.  Never had to ask for anything to be done. I love my Lexus.  I have the RX350.


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## Conan (Jul 19, 2015)

BMW is in the process of redoing each model from scratch, on a new, unified platform. [Volvo is doing the same.]

Timesharing has taught me to plan years in advance. I'm interested in getting a 5-series BMW sedan (I've only bought Acura and Volvo up to now). The new 2017 5-series will arrive in October 2016. Since I wouldn't dare buy a new revamp in its first model year, my plan is to buy a 2018 model 5-series in December 2017.

That's only 28 months from now - - only a few months past my latest timeshare reservation!


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## DaveNV (Jul 19, 2015)

Conan said:


> I wouldn't dare buy a new revamp in its first model year, my plan is to buy a 2018 model 5-series in December 2017.
> 
> That's only 28 months from now - - only a few months past my latest timeshare reservation!




Unless you need to drive it brand new, you may want to consider buying a low-mileage lease return 2018 model in 2020 or 2021. Chances are the car would still be under warranty, all maintenance would be up to date, and you'd get the redesign you want. Best of all:  The huge depreciation that hits new BMWs would already have occurred, and you could get a great car for a lot less money.

(Since this thread was new, I've changed cars again. Now driving a 2007 X5 4.8xi. It's a great compromise, will tow up to 6600 pounds, and gives me great comfort and cargo hauling for four adults. Nice car.)

Dave


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## Ken555 (Jul 19, 2015)

BMWguynw said:


> (Since this thread was new, I've changed cars again. Now driving a 2007 X5 4.8xi. It's a great compromise, will tow up to 6600 pounds, and gives me great comfort and cargo hauling for four adults. Nice car.)




Similarly, I now drive a 2010 528 which I found online from Alabama and had shipped out to California, under certified warranty. Great car, very similar to my former 2008 528. I decided on the 2010 since it was the last model year of the 528 and had the latest tech (even some from the 2011 model, re idrive, nav, etc). I'm planning on buying a five year extended warranty in the next few months, and have no intention of getting rid of this car anytime soon. Just bought new tires last week and went away from the stock run flats, and the new tires make the car drive noticeably better.


Sent from my iPad


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## Conan (Jul 19, 2015)

BMWguynw said:


> Unless you need to drive it brand new, you may want to consider buying a low-mileage lease return 2018 model in 2020 or 2021.



Yes but that's around 75 months from now. A long time even by timeshare standards!


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## DaveNV (Jul 19, 2015)

Conan said:


> Yes but that's around 75 months from now. A long time even by timeshare standards!



Well, there is that. 

Dave


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## Passepartout (Jul 19, 2015)

So buy a brand new 2016 5 series. It will be as technologically advanced as is the current state-of-the-art. You'll miss the first year glitches of a new model and get a well proven model 2-3 years before that '17 or '18 comes out. Keep the '16 for 3 years and upgrade. That new car smell is intoxicating. Might as well have it twice.

Jim


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## ThreeLittleBirds (Jul 19, 2015)

I used to hate driving. Now I have a BMW X3 and I love love driving.


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