# 6-7 wks in USA. Where should we go?



## Sydney (Aug 20, 2011)

Please help with your knowledgeable suggestions.

We'll be there from Dec 2012 -January 2013, for about 6-7 wks starting in LAX, maybe SFO but not likely.

We are an Australian family of 7, with 2 adults and 5 children (6-18yrs at time of travel). We just like spending time together so a day of doing nothing and just playing boardgames or a full day of sightseeing and activity is fine with us. We love to see new places and experience new things.

On our must do list are:

    Disneyland
    Sedona, Grand Canyon (will be 2nd visit)
    hopefully Niagara Falls (is it OK to visit in Winter?). Then if we do end up heading to the Falls, we thought we should fit in New York and Washington.

We have plenty of beaches in Australia and it'll be Winter in the US so are not interested in beach locations. Love mountains but don't want to spend all our time visting one mountain after another so a good mix of nature and city would be great.

Any suggestions of what we should add to the itinerary? We are very excited and would love to experience as much of the wonderful sights of the US as possible. I originally had in mind to visit Yosemite and Yellowstone but apparently they are closed in Winter? Is this correct? We love trying out local foods so if there is a place famous for a dish, then we'd love to try it.

I was thinking to drive to the East Coast, we could stop somewhere on the way. Although we're open to flying to the East Coast from the West if the drive is too long or there's nothing much worth seeing.

We'll be predominantly using RCI to exchange and Worldmark with a few hotel stays here and there.

Thanks!
__________________


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## Conan (Aug 20, 2011)

We live in the Northeast, and over several summers we explored many of the US national parks of America's Southwest.  Some of these may not be accessible in Winter but others will be OK.

Take a look at the map here, and center it on the "Four Corners" area where Utah (mistake corrected), Arizona, Colorado and New Mexico intersect.
http://www.nps.gov/state/az/index.htm?program=parks

Much of this area is "Indian Lands." Canyon de Chelly, Mesa Verde, Monument Valley, and so forth.  It's really unique in the world.  Farther west there's Yosemite and Yellowstone.

For the Northeast, I don't think Niagara Falls is your best choice.  Consider Boston, Provincetown Cape Cod, New York City instead.

That's a start!


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## Dollie (Aug 20, 2011)

Yellowstone NP is not closed in the winter, however, access is limited.  Roads are closed to cars but open to snowmobiles and snow coaches.  It is truly an interesting experience to visit in the winter.  Even a lodge or two are open within the park but you need to make reservations early for both overnight stays (generally a year in advance), transportation into the park,  and day visits to the area.  If you visit Jackson Hole, Wyoming you can not only visit Yellowstone but also Grand Teton NP.  You are talking of a winter trip, be prepared for snow, cold, and possibly trouble traveling in this area.  If you ski, Jackson is a great ski area.  If you don’t ski, there is still plenty to do and see.  You can find tours out of Jackson that will take you into Yellowstone for the day.

As far as driving across the US, you need to check driving times and distances.  You could end up spending a lot of your time in a car rather than seeing the sights.  Also note that some of the areas you mentioned are in snow country at this time of the year (Yellowstone, Niagara Falls, the northern states of the east coast).


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## JudyH (Aug 20, 2011)

I have driven from Washington DC to Niagra Falls, thats about 10-12 hours to do that.

I have driven from DC to the Rocky Mountains of Colorado, that took us 3 days.

Niagra in the winter is a frozen wonder, very pretty.

Definately do the Four Corners area mentioned above, nothing like it in the world.


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## beejaybeeohio (Aug 20, 2011)

*Going X-country*

To comment on a few of your thoughts:

Yellowstone is open in winter and still provides the excitement of Old Faithful geyser.Buffalo will be up close & personal if you snowmobile in the park.

Niagara Falls is uncrowded and beautiful in the winter surrounded by snow & ice and would be perfect to visit enroute to the East Coast via car.

You could do a western auto loop and then fly east to loop Boston & NYC with Niagara Falls a possibility. How about Montreal or Toronto Canada as part of this section of your trip?


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## Talent312 (Aug 20, 2011)

You will not want to drive coast to coast. Much of the mid-west and "great plains" is flat, incredibly boring, and in winter, difficult to drive, at best. Its a good way to waste 2 days each way.  You'll miss some fine cities, like Chicago and St. Louis, but there are plenty of other cities to make up for it. I'd encourage you to do circle-tours on each coast, instead.

West Coast: San Franciso should not be missed, along with a visit to Napa Valley, Monterey (fine Aquarium), and if you can get to it, Yosemite National Park. But if flying into LAX, you'll want to stick to the LA highlights (Disney, Universal Studios, Getty Museum, Warner Bros. tour), take a day to drive up the Pacific Coast Hwy (US 1) at least to San Simeon to tour the Hearst Castle, another day or two for San Diego (Zoo, Coronado Island, SeaWorld or Legoland). Then head West to Las Vegas, Sedona, Grand Canyon. From there, I'd go North to Zion National Park, Bryce Canyon National Park, and either Salt Lake City or across to Denver, Colorado, for a flight East.

East Coast: Niagra Falls nice, but a bit out of the way and darn cold in Winter. Still, if you fly into NYC, you could easily drive there in a day. Then, head for Washington, DC, where besides all the Monuments & Memorials, there's the Smithsonian Museums scattered about the National Mall, between the White House & Capital. You could easily spend a week, if not a month there. The Air & Space, American History and Natural History Museums should not be missed. We spent a week in DC and barely scratched the surface.

Southeast: For warmer weather, head South to Charleston, South Carolina, and perhaps, Savanna, Georgia. Stop along the way at Kitty Hawk on the outer banks of North Carolina. Florida in Winter is great. If you go, there's St. Augustine (oldest city in the US), the Kennedy Space Center, and Orlando (Disney, Universal & SeaWorld), overrun with TS resorts.

New York: Heading back to NYC, stop in Baltimore (fine Aquarium) and Philadelphia (Independence Hall). In NYC, do a hop-on, hop-off bus tour to get acquainted. Besides the usual stuff (Empire State Bldg., Statue of Liberty, Broadway shows), see a show at the Rose Planetarium (attached to the Natural History Museum), and spend a day at the Metropolitan Museum of Art.

Just my 2 cents.


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## loafingcactus (Aug 20, 2011)

America has an issue which I think an Australian can well understand- the middle of the country is sometimes called (with some political overtones) "flyover country" and there are comics with at the coasts smushed together and nothing in the middle.

Okay, especially in the winter.  I love Niagara Falls and when I was frequently in Buffalo and Toronto for business I would always top there.  There is a Sheraton that is beautiful and, though I've never been, an indoor water park next door.  But if I were traveling a lot of other places would I go there?  No, especially not in winter.  It's a lot of driving with nothing.  And a bad storm could destroy your trip.

Someone mentioned Arizona, good if you like that sort of thing, and though it is 99% fake Las Vegas is also a thing to see (and you want Disney, so 99% fake is okay).  Southern California and the Central Coast (look up Santa Barbara and Morro Bay) and even San Francisco (SF is Cold... People don't expect that) would be great.  Texas might be interesting and stop you from having to fly across the country nonstop.  Miami is crazy and fun.  Atlanta is more interesting than anyone suspects (and a way to get up the East coast without flying a long way).  Great museums of American history and the largest aquarium in the world.

DC is actually pretty temperate and except for a a few days a year of heavy snow should work well.  New York and Boston are fabulous of course, but if there is a bad storm you could end up having to redirect yourself.


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## vacationhopeful (Aug 20, 2011)

Do the East Coast cities. 
*NYC* at Xmas is beautiful and alive with Broadway shows, holiday decor, and shopping. 
*Philadelphia* is just down the road (100 miles) but the city is so different. The history of why the US is the way it is. The worldwide headquaters of the Society of Friends is here (Quarkers), the medical colleges (first women's), 1st open state for religious freedoms, Ben Franklin's adopted home, Bill of Rights, the Declaration of Freedom, the Constitution of the US, the universities (and who founded them), etc. Art. History was made here.
*Washington, D*C is just another 100 miles down the road. Is a city of govenment and stored history.

Baltimore is interesting, as a state sitting between the North and South. Annapolis is just south before Washington, DC - home of the Naval College. Williamsburg is south of DC and is a resorted colonial town.

For late Dec and Jan --- the weather is cold. But the cities are alive and very doable. Go in the summer and it is humid with large crowds of US families showing their kids.


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## DeniseM (Aug 20, 2011)

I agree with the others - driving across the US, under the best of conditions, is a really long boring drive, and it the winter it may be completely undoable.  Much of the US has huge winter snow storms that can shut everything down - including the highways.

Just as an example, it's 2,792 miles and 43 hours from LA to New York.  Let's say you drive 8 hours a day - that's 5+ days of just driving.  Frankly, the drive would be a waste of 5 precious days of vacation time.

I would either spend all of the time on the West Coast, which has little snow and moderate winter weather, or do a West Coast tour, then fly to the East Coast and do an East Coast tour.


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## x3 skier (Aug 20, 2011)

I would rent a car and see the West Coast starting in San Francisco, including Highway one down the coast of CA, drive to Vegas just to say you lost money in Sin City, take in the Four Corners area and then drive to Denver or Salt Lake City and take a few days skiing or other snow sports in the Wasatch Range or the Rockies. Lots of folks from OZ ski in Steamboat for example. If you start from LAX, reverse the coast drive and then go to Lake Tahoe / Reno for skiing and gambling. You might have to take some time to get to the Four Corners area from there so you might just leave from Reno to Chicago.

Fly to Chicago (cold and windy in the Winter but one of my favorite cities). 

Fly to an east coast city and to the BOWASH drill (Boston, NY, Philly, Washington DC) either by train or if you want a headache, by car.

I agree with skipping the drive across the Great Plains. I do it twice a year from OH to Steamboat Springs in winter and back in the spring. Winter can be brutal or a joy. I once spent the day in a truck stop because Kansas was closed. That's right, the entire state was closed by a blizzard.

There are a number of companies that rent RV's which might be a good thing to rent for the Western portion of your trip. Here's a couple www.cruiseamerica.com, one of the bigger outfits, and www.rvrentalsofamerica.com and lots more on Google.

If you decide to drive across the country on 1-70, stop in Dayton and I will show you around the USAF Museum, AFAIK, the biggest military aircraft collection in the world.

Cheers


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## bellesgirl (Aug 20, 2011)

Another thing to consider when driving across country is the cost of a car rental.  The drop off charge could be horrendous.  I would rent a car on the west coast, do your circuit.  Then drop off the car, fly to the east coast and do the same.  

My daughter and SIL recently spent 3 weeks driving from LAX up to the northern coast of Oregon and back.  They were on the go every day and exhausted at the end.  My SIL is British and this trip gave him an appreciation of how big (and beautiful) the USA really is.


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## Sydney (Aug 20, 2011)

Wow! Thanks for all the quick replies!



Conan said:


> Take a look at the map here, and center it on the "Four Corners" area where Nevada, Arizona, Colorado and New Mexico intersect.
> http://www.nps.gov/state/az/index.htm?program=parks
> ...
> For the Northeast, I don't think Niagara Falls is your best choice.  Consider Boston, Provincetown Cape Cod, New York City instead.


Thanks for the great suggestion Conan. I hadn't come across the "Four Corners" so will definitely look into it. I've just always wanted to goto Niagara Falls as I love natural wonders. I hadn't thought of visiting Boston or heading up that way. Will google it and check out what there is to do there, but I wouldn't substitute a city/town for Niagara so it'll be a matter of fitting them in as well. Thanks!



Dollie said:


> Yellowstone NP is not closed in the winter, however, access is limited.  Roads are closed to cars but open to snowmobiles and snow coaches.  It is truly an interesting experience to visit in the winter.  Even a lodge or two are open within the park but you need to make reservations early for both overnight stays (generally a year in advance), transportation into the park,  and day visits to the area.  If you visit Jackson Hole, Wyoming you can not only visit Yellowstone but also Grand Teton NP.  You are talking of a winter trip, be prepared for snow, cold, and possibly trouble traveling in this area.  If you ski, Jackson is a great ski area.  If you don’t ski, there is still plenty to do and see.  You can find tours out of Jackson that will take you into Yellowstone for the day.
> 
> As far as driving across the US, you need to check driving times and distances.  You could end up spending a lot of your time in a car rather than seeing the sights.  Also note that some of the areas you mentioned are in snow country at this time of the year (Yellowstone, Niagara Falls, the northern states of the east coast).


Thanks very much for the info on Yellowstone and the links Dolly! We'd love the snow if we happen to be in an area with snow but we wouldn't go specifically for skiing as we go almost yearly back home. I've been using Google Maps to map out the driving routes for sample itineraries. It's fab because it can show the routes in kms instead of miles. So I have a good understanding of distances, especially since we do a bit of driving to vacations back home. You're right though, I'm rethinking and maybe we should do each coast and fly instead of drive.



JudyH said:


> I have driven from Washington DC to Niagra Falls, thats about 10-12 hours to do that.
> I have driven from DC to the Rocky Mountains of Colorado, that took us 3 days.
> Niagra in the winter is a frozen wonder, very pretty.
> Definately do the Four Corners area mentioned above, nothing like it in the world.


Thanks Judy. That's very helpful as 10-12 hrs is doable. I like your positive description of Niagara. Looking forward to it!



beejaybeeohio said:


> To comment on a few of your thoughts:
> 
> Yellowstone is open in winter and still provides the excitement of Old Faithful geyser.Buffalo will be up close & personal if you snowmobile in the park.
> 
> ...


 Thanks BJB. Glad to read another positive comment about Niagara in Winter as it means I don't have to give it up. I like your suggestion of doing a loop which includes Canada. Will add that to the list as I love Canada. I originally looked at going to Prince Edward Island as I knew it was up that way, but alas, google maps laid that idea to rest, but adding Montreal/Toronto would be the next best thing. Thanks!



Talent312 said:


> You will not want to drive coast to coast. Much of the mid-west and "great plains" is flat, incredibly boring, and in winter, difficult to drive, at best. Its a good way to waste 2 days each way.  You'll miss some fine cities, like Chicago and St. Louis, but there are plenty of other cities to make up for it. I'd encourage you to do circle-tours on each coast, instead.Yes, I think you are right. after reading more comments.
> 
> West Coast: San Franciso should not be missed, along with a visit to Napa Valley, Monterey (fine Aquarium), and if you can get to it, Yosemite National Park. But if flying into LAX, you'll want to stick to the LA highlights (Disney, Universal Studios, Getty Museum, Warner Bros. tour), take a day to drive up the Pacific Coast Hwy (US 1) at least to San Simeon to tour the Hearst Castle, another day or two for San Diego (Zoo, Coronado Island, SeaWorld or Legoland). Then head West to Las Vegas, Sedona, Grand Canyon. From there, I'd go North to Zion National Park, Bryce Canyon National Park, and either Salt Lake City or across to Denver, Colorado, for a flight East.
> The only attraction we plan on is Disney. I think that's all I can bear and it means the kids will be happy at least. Not really into Hollywood so will probably give Warner Bros and Universal a miss unless we can squeeze it in without spending more time in LA than we have to. Hearst Castle sounds good as we love castles. Will check it out.
> ...





loafingcactus said:


> America has an issue which I think an Australian can well understand- the middle of the country is sometimes called (with some political overtones) "flyover country" and there are comics with at the coasts smushed together and nothing in the middle. Yes, Aussies and Americans tend to have similar perspectives regarding distances, except we operate with Kms like most of the world.
> 
> Okay, especially in the winter.  I love Niagara Falls and when I was frequently in Buffalo and Toronto for business I would always top there.  There is a Sheraton that is beautiful and, though I've never been, an indoor water park next door.  But if I were traveling a lot of other places would I go there?  No, especially not in winter.  It's a lot of driving with nothing.  And a bad storm could destroy your trip. Hoping the weather will just be cold with no storms. The only way I'd miss Niagara is if it was closed.
> 
> ...


 That's the 2nd time Boston's been mentioned. What's special about it? Maybe we should add it to our list? I just always thought of it as Ally McBeal's city and read it's a good "walking" city, but then Rome is a good walking city too.  



vacationhopeful said:


> Do the East Coast cities.
> *NYC* at Xmas is beautiful and alive with Broadway shows, holiday decor, and shopping. Yes, must do!
> *Philadelphia* is just down the road (100 miles) but the city is so different. The history of why the US is the way it is. The worldwide headquaters of the Society of Friends is here (Quarkers), the medical colleges (first women's), 1st open state for religious freedoms, Ben Franklin's adopted home, Bill of Rights, the Declaration of Freedom, the Constitution of the US, the universities (and who founded them), etc. Art. History was made here.Will look into adding Philadelphia to the itinerary if it's easy enough to do. Thanks.
> *Washington, D*C is just another 100 miles down the road. Is a city of govenment and stored history. Yep, on the list.
> ...


 Can't go in Summer as Dec/Jan is when school's out for us down under. We only get 2 wks off in July and that's just not enough time for the USA!



DeniseM said:


> I agree with the others - driving across the US, under the best of conditions, is a really long boring drive, and it the winter it may be completely undoable.  Much of the US has huge winter snow storms that can shut everything down - including the highways.
> 
> Just as an example, it's 2,792 miles and 43 hours from LA to New York.  Let's say you drive 8 hours a day - that's 5+ days of just driving.  Frankly, the drive would be a waste of 5 precious days of vacation time. Yes, I'm thinking you're right and the time we save by flying from West to East, we can maybe squeeze in Rome on the way home as a couple of the kids would like to visit it. I had factored in 2 wks to cross the country so now have 2 wks up my sleeve to add in Europe or Great Wall of China (the other must see for our kids since we went without them).
> 
> I would either spend all of the time on the West Coast, which has little snow and moderate winter weather, or do a West Coast tour, then fly to the East Coast and do an East Coast tour.


 Thanks for the tip Denise. We'll do that to fit more in and save ourselves a long drive. I'd be happy to drive that far if there was something we really wanted to see but I just can't think of anything that's a not-to-be-missed.


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## Sydney (Aug 20, 2011)

x3 skier said:


> I would rent a car and see the West Coast starting in San Francisco, including Highway one down the coast of CA, drive to Vegas just to say you lost money in Sin City, take in the Four Corners area and then drive to Denver or Salt Lake City and take a few days skiing or other snow sports in the Wasatch Range or the Rockies. Lots of folks from OZ ski in Steamboat for example. Great suggestion. We'll definitely rent a car. I think we'll skip sin city. Once was enough. Although the kids were pretty chuffed about M&Ms World last time as they got to try ones not available here. If you start from LAX, reverse the coast drive and then go to Lake Tahoe / Reno for skiing and gambling. You might have to take some time to get to the Four Corners area from there so you might just leave from Reno to Chicago.
> 
> Fly to Chicago (cold and windy in the Winter but one of my favorite cities).
> 
> ...





bellesgirl said:


> Another thing to consider when driving across country is the cost of a car rental.  The drop off charge could be horrendous. Hadn't thought of that!  I would rent a car on the west coast, do your circuit.  Then drop off the car, fly to the east coast and do the same. Yes, sound advice. Thank you.
> 
> My daughter and SIL recently spent 3 weeks driving from LAX up to the northern coast of Oregon and back.  They were on the go every day and exhausted at the end.  My SIL is British and this trip gave him an appreciation of how big (and beautiful) the USA really is.


 The Birtish have no idea about distance though, living on that tiny island of theirs.  

Thanks again everyone for your generous time and suggestions. I'll looking forward to more tips if anyone has anymore out there.


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## loafingcactus (Aug 20, 2011)

What's so great about Boston requires a short history lesson:

Washington DC is a made up city, literally: it is fill dirt on swamp land.  It was created to keep any state from having the power of owning the capital city.  So for the real beginnings of American history you have to go elsewhere.

Those elsewhere places are Philadelphia, New York and Boston.  Of the three, Boston is the most like a European city: the real things from the beginning of history are still there and in use.  The harbor where they threw in the tea, the church where Paul Revere left for his ride, etc... One of the original jails is now a hotel, one of the original customs houses is now a time share.  The original narrow stone streets.

A lot of America is fake or re-created (I.e., Las Vegas).  But Boston is the real thing.


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## DeniseM (Aug 20, 2011)

Sydney - I'm going to send you a pm.


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## vacationhopeful (Aug 20, 2011)

Sydney said:


> Wow! Thanks for all the quick replies!
> 
> 
> Can't go in Summer as that's Dec?Jan is when school's out for us down under. We only get 2 wks off in July and that's just not enough time for the USA!



What I was saying is "GO IN THE WINTER!"  - TOO crowded in the summer as all the Americans are doing the Philadelphia scene then.

PS  "The Sixth Sense" was filmed in downtown Philly. And  "Witness" was the city portion and the Amish live about an hour west of Philly still.


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## Sydney (Aug 20, 2011)

loafingcactus said:


> What's so great about Boston requires a short history lesson:
> 
> Washington DC is a made up city, literally: it is fill dirt on swamp land.  It was created to keep any state from having the power of owning the capital city.  So for the real beginnings of American history you have to go elsewhere.
> 
> ...


 Sounds absolutely fascinating. Will put it on our short list.



vacationhopeful said:


> What I was saying is "GO IN THE WINTER!"  - TOO crowded in the summer as all the Americans are doing the Philadelphia scene then.


 Yes, I finally got that on the 2nd read after I replied to you. Doh!


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## Ken555 (Aug 20, 2011)

Since you mentioned your interest in nature, I'd definitely suggest adding the Pacific Northwest to your list. Portland is a great city to visit, and is close to wonderful hiking (though expect cold and rain while you're there in the winter, with overcast days - but there can be an exception!). Willamette Falls is not to be missed and is very close to Portland, and is east from the city along the Columbia river, and is the second highest waterfall in North America. Going west will take you through several small towns, each with their own character to Astoria, and then a long bridge over the Columbia to the State of Washington. I've done this drive a couple of times, and it's fantastic (but in the winter it will be a bit different)... Head north to the Olympic Peninsula, take a car ferry to Vancouver Island and see Victoria then to Vancouver. If you want to fit in a few ski days, I'd suggest heading to Whistler, which is only a two hour drive from Vancouver over (now) great roads. Also, some of the beach communities along the Oregon and Washington coast are great to visit, but again, may be closed or disappointing in winter.

If you must fit in Los Angeles (I live here and still don't understand the appeal of the city by tourists, unless they just want to see more cars than should be humanly possible in one day), make it a short visit. There is better food in San Francisco and while our museums are good (btw, there are two Getty museums now, one of which I believe still requires a car reservation in advance, and you should see both if you plan on museums). I like the de Young musuem in San Francisco as it gives you both a wonderful exhibit along with an opportunity to see part of the city you'd likely not visit otherwise. 

Keep in mind the following... If no weather disruptions or slowdowns and anticipating typical stops, it will take 6-7 hours drive time from Los Angeles to San Francisco, 12-14 hours from San Francisco to Portland, 5 hours from Portland to Vancouver (but not via the Olympic Peninsula, which will take considerably longer, and is worth it). I'd suggest limiting your drive time and selectively drive portions of your trip and fly the rest. For instance, driving from LA to SF makes sense, since the time to checkin at the airport is hard to justify for such a short trip. I'd then fly to Portland (or take the train overnight, which is a wonderful way to see the country...Amtrak offers family compartments, it's an overnight trip, and you might enjoy it). 

You can easily spend 2-3 weeks just on the west coast of the US and Canada, not including Arizona, Nevada, or Utah. If you travel constantly you might not enjoy it as much. So... I'd suggest doing more research and focusing on several geographically close areas and spending a week or more in each. And yes, the east coast is also wonderful (I love Boston, but you won't find me there in the winter!).


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## JudyH (Aug 20, 2011)

They never close Niagara Falls, they can't figure out how to turn off the water :ignore:


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## JudyH (Aug 20, 2011)

I picked up a very helpful travel brochure last week called "Grand Circle 2011 travel planer".  Its lists and shows pics of everything in the Four Corners region.  Go to www.grandcircle.org and request a copy to be mailed to you.

Also, I love this travel book called Journey to the High Southwest, by Robert Casey.  I have several editions, it makes me feel like I am there.

Can I come with your family and be your travel guide?


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## loafingcactus (Aug 20, 2011)

JudyH said:


> They never close Niagara Falls, they can't figure out how to turn off the water :ignore:



Ah but no, they turned off the falls in 1969 to do erosion control work.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Niagara_Falls


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## Fern Modena (Aug 20, 2011)

Lang,
If you do spend any time in LA, your children would probably be interested in the  courtyard of Grauman's Chinese Theater, where the handprints and footprints of famous people are.  They wouldn't know many of the older ones, but even those are fun.  For example, there are footprints of Roy Rogers, and also of his horse, Trigger.  There are also newer prints, including those from the original Star Wars.  And you don't need to pay to see it all, you can walk around for FREE.

I know you probably won't want to spend time in Las Vegas, but if you do, you could stay for a night in Henderson instead if it is on your way out.  We have several of the suite-type hotels, which would suit your needs much better, and Henderson is much more family-friendly.  You could just drive down to The Strip if you wanted to do anything there, and then get back in your car and come back to Henderson without walking down The Strip at all.  And Fern could take you all out to dinner   But if not, I understand.

Fern


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## ampaholic (Aug 20, 2011)

loafingcactus said:


> Ah but no, they turned off the falls in 1969 to do erosion control work.
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Niagara_Falls



What did they do with all the effluent I mean water from lake Michigan and the others?

Sydney: If you go to Niagara you owe it to yourself to go through the Adirondacks (Lake Placid, Saranac Lake, Tupper Lake and Lake George area) on your way to Boston.

And don't forget Montreal - if you like good eats - it is wonderful even in winter. 

The upstate areas rarely "close" due to storms - but it has happened for a day or two.

I used to live in the area and I have often driven through there with clear pavement and 6 feet of snow plowed up onto the sides of the road. 

In these areas the road departments are very good at keeping the roads open - but rent an SUV (just to be sure).


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## Carol C (Aug 20, 2011)

Talent312 said:


> You will not want to drive coast to coast. Much of the mid-west and "great plains" is flat, incredibly boring, and in winter, difficult to drive, at best. Its a good way to waste 2 days each way.  You'll miss some fine cities, like Chicago and St. Louis, but there are plenty of other cities to make up for it. I'd encourage you to do circle-tours on each coast, instead.
> 
> West Coast: San Franciso should not be missed, along with a visit to Napa Valley, Monterey (fine Aquarium), and if you can get to it, Yosemite National Park. But if flying into LAX, you'll want to stick to the LA highlights (Disney, Universal Studios, Getty Museum, Warner Bros. tour), take a day to drive up the Pacific Coast Hwy (US 1) at least to San Simeon to tour the Hearst Castle, another day or two for San Diego (Zoo, Coronado Island, SeaWorld or Legoland). Then head West to Las Vegas, Sedona, Grand Canyon. From there, I'd go North to Zion National Park, Bryce Canyon National Park, and either Salt Lake City or across to Denver, Colorado, for a flight East.
> 
> ...



This is a fabulous itinerary. I would also add that you can and should fly via the US discount air carriers like AirTran and Southwest. You can book one way, doesn't have to be r/t purchase. And AirTran often has sales...with its hub in Atlanta you can often get one way ticket to Cancun for $94 USD plus taxes (that is, if you want to add Mexico into your itinerary to get your tootsies warm after visiting all those icy locations!) From Fort Lauderdale you can often get Spirit Airlines for even cheaper to Cancun and other Carib destinations. Just my two pesos worth...but it might be a nice break from snow and cold if the US has another bad winter like last year.  

P.S. Yes! Go to Yellowstone Natl Park in wintertime. You will see wolves in the wild!


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## ampaholic (Aug 20, 2011)

While you are in LA - you could go to Six Flags Magic Mountain - it has better rides than mouse-land (or used to). Don't forget Venice Beach, it's cool even in winter.

I could spend 6-7 weeks just roaming around So Cal and AZ - but that's me.

Have you considered extending to 12 to 16 weeks? The USA is big - heck I think it's almost as big as Australia.


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## sue1947 (Aug 20, 2011)

You've gotten some good suggestions, but the huge caveat in all of this is the weather.  The Four Corners area and much of the Southwest Canyon country can get very snowy and cold in January.  Typically, the cold weather comes down as far as Flagstaff so looking at a map, for any destination to the north, have a backup plan in case the weather turns on you.  Sedona is 40 miles south of Flagstaff and, while it can get snow, it typically melts quickly and won't present a problem.  It can be sunny in Sedona and snowing hard in Flagstaff and the Grand Canyon.  I would definitely keep Sedona on your list and then hope the weather and road conditions cooperate to get to the Grand Canyon.  
In addition, they are saying we might have another La Nina winter which means colder and more snow in the Northwest and difficult flying conditions across the country. However, CA can be nice in January; last year (a La Nina winter) it was 70's on the beach at Monterey.  
Given the weather issues, here are my suggestions:
  Plan on driving CA and Arizona and then fly to any other cities you decide to visit.   I'd plan on at least a couple of weeks in California and then a week  in Sedona (lots of good timeshares and you can get a bargain in Jan) and another week in Tucson.  
  Specifics:  San Diego with a side trip to Anza Borego State Park and maybe over to Palm Springs for the desert scenery.  Up to LA and stick along the coast to Santa Barbara and the wine country around Solvang which is really pretty in Jan when it's nice and green. You said you don't want beach time, but I really like the scenery along the Central Coast north of Santa Barbara to Moro Bay and San Simion.  There is an excellent bird festival in Moro Bay in January; an excellent way to see lesser knows areas with people who know the area and a great learning experience for your kids.  If you have to motel it, look at a motel at Moonstone Beach north of Moro Bay.  The elephant seals hang out here in January and give birth.  It's quite a sight with the mothers bellowing at the males to stay away from the babies and the males bellowing at each other.  Then north along Big Sur (check road conditions since the roads sometimes washout) to Monterey.  Pt Lobo state park is a must do along with the estuaries north of Monterey for the sea otters (nothing cuter than a raft of sea otters rubbing their hands to keep warm).  San Francisco is next and then Point Reyes National Seashore and the Napa Valley.  Keep heading north to Redwood National Park which is great in the winter; it will rain and/or snow but they are magnificent.    Head back south to the east to Yosemite.  The Valley will be open.  It can get snow but it can also be bare ground.  It gets so crowded in the summer, that winter is a really good time to go.  You can see El Capitan and Half Dome and many of the iconic views.  The road south towards Mariposa goes up high and past a small ski area (at the road to Glacier Point which will be closed except to cross country skiing in Jan) and then the Mariposa Grove of Sequioa trees.  The road to the latter will be closed but it's a wonderful and easy snowshoe.  Might be fun with the kids.  
In Arizona, besides Sedona, I also like southern AZ in January when it's not so darned hot.  Tucson has the Saguaro NP, a ski area up on Mt Lemmon and lots of natural areas to explore.  In the SE corner of the state is Chiricahua National Monument with tall spires of white rock.  The rangers run a car shuttle taking people up to the top in the morning so they can hike down through the spires.  Nearby is Ft Bowie National Historic site which is a fairly easy circle hike up through John Wayne country; lots of history of Cowboys and Indians etc. 
Head back west towards LA via Palm Springs and Joshua Tree National Monument.  The latter has weird looking trees and some neat rocks to play on.  
NW: Somebody else suggested taking the ferry over to Victoria.  Note that some of the ferries don't run in January (the ones from Washington State) but the one out of Tswassen (south of Vancouver) runs all year.  Vancouver can be very cold in January with icy winds coming down the Fraser River.  However, last year in a La Nina winter, January was actually kind of nice and then we got slammed in Feb and the rest of the spring.  I'd recommend Victoria as the best spot out of those suggested.  For skiing, the scenery at Whistler can't be beat (real mountains with glaciers vs those skimpy things in California and Tahoe) but it may be too far out of your way.  Tahoe is probably a better bet from your base in California.  
East Coast:  I'd pick Boston as the best city (though really cold and the weather could be nasty getting into the airport) and then I'd go with Charleston for that different scenery and history.  

You've got way more places to go than time so let us know what you end up doing. 
Sue


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## Conan (Aug 20, 2011)

For a first leg eastbound into Indian Country, you can fly non-stop one-way on Southwest (or its competitors) from LAX Los Angeles to ABQ Albuquerque inexpensively.  It might be possible to drive one-way from ABQ via various Four Corners sites to Monument Valley and/or Arches National Park then fly on from Salt Lake City to wherever you're heading next.

Watch The Searchers or other John Ford/John Wayne Westerns and you'll see Monument Valley.





If the TV series Breaking Bad has made it to Australia that's Albuquerque.


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## x3 skier (Aug 20, 2011)

sue1947 said:


> For skiing, the scenery at Whistler can't be beat (real mountains with glaciers vs those skimpy things in California and Tahoe) but it may be too far out of your way.  Tahoe is probably a better bet from your base in California.



Whistler is huge and great, *if* you don't mind being in the rain at the bottom while it is snowing up top.

The drive from Vancouver to Whistler is pretty nice as well. 

Cheers


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## eal (Aug 20, 2011)

And Whistler is a huge Aussie hangout!  You will find Aussie treats in the grocery stores and hear familiar accents everywhere you go.  Oh, and by the way, it is drop dead gorgeous scenery.


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## Rose Pink (Aug 20, 2011)

Conan said:


> Take a look at the map here, and center it on the "Four Corners" area where *Nevada*, Arizona, Colorado and New Mexico intersect.
> http://www.nps.gov/state/az/index.htm?program=parks


Nevada is not part of the Four Corners.  It is Utah.  In fact, the entire state of Utah is interesting if you like changes of scenery.  It has several National Parks: Zion, Bryce, Capitol Reef, Canyonlands, Arches.  Moab is a fun little town if you like four-wheeling or biking or hiking.  You can also go into Colorado and see Mesa Verde and some of the other parks already mentioned in the Four Corners area.

Salt Lake City has arts, museums, snow skiing and snow boarding, symphony, ballet, theater, golf and on and on.  It is most famous for Temple Square and the Mormon Tabernacle Choir.  Free concerts are given on Temple Square.  It also has an international airport which makes it easy to get where you need to go.

DH could live anywhere as he travels on business but he chose SLC and I'm glad he did!


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## mecllap (Aug 20, 2011)

If you can get a good deal on a rental car that you can drive from CA and drop off in Denver, you can kind of follow a National Parks "trail" that would be wonderful - esp. if you're planning to go to the Grand Canyon anyway.  There are several sites in southern Utah and Colorado that are spectacular and very interesting -- and seeing the Rockies is awesome.  You could perhaps fly RT up to Yellowstone and come back to Denver to continue on eastward.  Do be aware that at that time of year, you may encounter bad weather anywhere you're thinking of going, so be prepared when driving (space blankets, extra food and water, etc.).  Are there any special things (collections, museums, etc.) that anyone is interested in?  There are lots of oddball, and magnificent collections of things in various places, besides all the great scenery.  Not sure how much interest in our history you all would want to take in.  

If you like fancy houses --San Simeon is great to see, as well as the Newport, RI mansions (and of course Biltmore here in Asheville, but you said you didn't want to come to the South -- altho at that time of year, you might want a break from the cold?).  Atlanta is a hub airport, and not too far from a lot of interesting places, as well as what it has to offer tourists (Coke museum, CNN tour, Aquarium [that it can be argued is better than Monterey], Zoo with pandas, dinosaurs at the Fernbank museum, etc.).

If you go to Disneyland right at the beginning of January, the holiday decoration will still be up (Haunted Mansion and Small World have delightful holiday "overlay").  

If you have any air travel fans, and esp. any "Transformers" fans, go out to the part of the Air and Space Museum near Dulles airport while you're in DC -- that was the highlight of our trip to DC last year for my then 11-yo grandson.  He got to walk on the very floor where Megan Fox had walked -- and they have "Jetfire."

I'm not a very detailed blogger, but here are my entries about DC (and a page or two previous, about Disneyland in January):  http://www.travelblog.org/North-Ame...-of-Columbia/Washington-D-C-/blog-518482.html

If you get to So. CA by January 2nd -- go to Pasadena and look up close at the Rose Parade floats.  


Have a wonderful trip I'd love to have 5-6 weeks to travel about this country (I've seen a lot of it, but there's so much more).


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## Conan (Aug 20, 2011)

Rose Pink said:


> Nevada is not part of the Four Corners.  It is Utah.  In fact, the entire state of Utah is interesting if you like changes of scenery.  It has several National Parks: Zion, Bryce, Capitol Reef, Canyonlands, Arches.


My error, thanks for spotting it.  I do like the idea of flying into ABQ and out from SLC.


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## clsmit (Aug 20, 2011)

The US is the same width as Australia -- would you drive from Perth to Sydney on holiday? Even if there were motorways (US Interstates) the whole way across the Outback? Probably not. So consider flying between the coasts even though I now live in a flyover state. (I know you've heard that from others. I completely agree.)

Another thing to think about with Niagara -- it will have a LOT of snow. That time of year you can easily have 2-3 meters on the ground. It snows every day in the winter in the snow belt, and the Buffalo/Niagara area is one of the snowiest. While they keep the roads pretty clear, if you're not used to driving on wetter snow than we have in the western US you will need to be careful. So if you're flying into NYC and then driving up get an SUV with 4 wheel drive, and make sure you have warm clothes, a charged mobile phone, water, and food with you before you start the drive. You might even plan for 2 days to get there. Toronto (about 3 hours from Niagara) will not have nearly the snow there is in Buffalo because of the lake and the way the wind blows.

And there's an M&M store at the north end Times Square (right across the street from the Hershey's store) in NYC, so the kids can get their fix there!

Food -- The US has a TON of chain restaurants. It's OK to go to one of each of them once. Then avoid them everywhere else and get the local food at locally-owned places. While the US hasn't fully embraced the slow food trends, more and more people are eating locally and the restaurants support that. What you can get will vary by where you are. In the southwest, it's various versions of Mexican food and beef. If you go to Albuquerque, you must have posole (stew with pork, hominy, and spices) in the winter there. In Buffalo, it's buffalo wings (which are not made of buffalo  ), cured meats and local cheese. In Boston, it's lobster (which may not be in season, but will still be good) and other seafood. In NYC, it's anything you want any time you want. In DC/Maryland, it's crab. If you go into the South (Virginia/Atlanta/the Carolinas), pork products (ham, pork barbecue), pecans, peanuts, grits, and greens (kind of like cooked spinach) are local foods. In Seattle it's coffee and microbrews. 

The Boston area has a lot of really cool stuff for kids. In addition to the Freedom Trail (the 3 mile walk of US history that will be too cold to do in the winter, but you can do parts), there's the MIT museum in Cambridge (fantastic science stuff), a Chinatown, a good science museum (more science!), the town of Salem (witches! Plimouth is closed in the winter), and professional basketball and world champion hockey.

The other cities have lots of other great stuff, too. Have a wonderful time!


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## Sydney (Aug 21, 2011)

Thanks for all who generously gave us advice.
So many good ideas, I'll print them out and we can sit down and go through them all.

Fern, will let you know if we head your way. It would be wonderful meeting up with you again but if we see you in person without Jerry, we'll just cry!


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## Fern Modena (Aug 21, 2011)

I know people will disagree on the value of going to Washington DC.  There are some fabulous museums there, with something for everybody.  You should check out the Smithsonian to see what might interest your family.

Check both the Museums and Zoos tab and the Exhibitions tab.  There is an Air and Space Museum for the guys and the American History Museum which highlights American Culture (with things like the ruby slippers from Wizard of Oz). There are dinosaurs if your kids have never seen real dinosaur bones,  And there is much more.

There are many other things to do as well.  You can tour the White House, or just pass nearby to see the outside.  Interested in the FBI?  You can tour that with advance notice.  There are many other places as well.  But if you want to do a quick one, then you could go by train from Boston, maybe stay overnight and then go to a couple of museums.  

Fern


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## Sydney (Aug 22, 2011)

We'll probably fly in on the 8th/9th Dec. Maybe into SFO/Yosemite so that we can drive down to LA, then Sedona, then Yellowstone. Google Map says it's about 15hrs from Sedona to Yellowstone. If we flew into LAX, we'd have to retrace our steps to fit in Sedona, SFO/Yosemite and Yellowstone.

This morning, I was able to book a 3br at Dolphin's Cove from 15th-22nd Dec. That's our 2nd wk in the US.

Should we spend the next week over Christmas in Sedona or somewhere else?

I don't really want to spend too much time in other places unless they're enroute to the locations above. So Hearst Castle is in and anything along the coast between LAX and SFO. Not quite sure how to get to Yellowstone. Amtrak doesn't go there. Denver is too far from Yellowstone to fly into. Maybe drive there from Sedona with a stop on the way but such a long drive! Am playing around with google map to see where we can stop on the way.

After that, we'll fly to the East Coast and spend a couple of wks in the Northeast.

The main reason we're going to the Northeast is to see Niagara Falls I know it's a bad time of year weatherwise but that can't be helped since it's the only time of year we can go.


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## Passepartout (Aug 22, 2011)

Sydney said:


> Should we spend the next week over Christmas in Sedona or somewhere else?
> 
> Not quite sure how to get to Yellowstone. Amtrak doesn't go there. Denver is too far from Yellowstone to fly into.
> 
> The main reason we're going to the Northeast is to see Niagara Falls I know it's a bad time of year weatherwise but that can't be helped since it's the only time of year we can go.



Christmas week should be delightful- if a little cool. They decorate the place up all SouthWest style. Still you can get out and about and walk some trails and get a feel for the place.

Yellowstone after Jan ! will be deep into it's Winter slumber. There are snowmobile excursions through the park as well as large van-conversion 'snow-coaches' that take visitors. Easiest access is from West Yellowstone- you can fly there on Delta on smallish aircraft. Less expensive is driving from Salt Lake City, but again, that's Winter, SLC to Yellowstone is 4000 to 7000 ft (~1500-2500 mt), and takes 5-6 driving hours in Summer. No guarantee that delays of DAYS couldn't happen in January.

Niagara Falls is in the midst of an area subject to 'lake effect' snow wherein snow can and has fallen in amounts measured in several feet in very short time. It is a wonderful sight, but January is not the time I'd want to experience it.

If Dec/January is the only time you can make a trip to this wonderful country of ours, it would be more pleasantly spent along the Southern tier of States. 

The other option is to dress warmly, rent a sturdy 4-wheel-drive, and plan very flexible schedules- especially for a lap of the Western Nat'l Parks in Winter. 

My intention is not to scare you away, but to make you aware of difficulties- especially as you head to Northern climes and higher elevations.

Have fun planning!

Jim Ricks


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## Sydney (Aug 23, 2011)

Much appreciated!  


Passepartout said:


> Christmas week should be delightful- if a little cool. They decorate the place up all SouthWest style. Still you can get out and about and walk some trails and get a feel for the place.
> 
> Yellowstone after Jan ! will be deep into it's Winter slumber. There are snowmobile excursions through the park as well as large van-conversion 'snow-coaches' that take visitors. Easiest access is from West Yellowstone- you can fly there on Delta on smallish aircraft. Less expensive is driving from Salt Lake City, but again, that's Winter, SLC to Yellowstone is 4000 to 7000 ft (~1500-2500 mt), and takes 5-6 driving hours in Summer. No guarantee that delays of DAYS couldn't happen in January.
> 
> ...


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## hibbeln (Aug 23, 2011)

Hi Lang!  My SIL and her family went to Sedona for several years in a row right before Christmas because they loved the atmosphere so much and liked the way the town was decorated for Christmas.  Seems like it would be a nice place to be for Christmas!   
I pulled this up online.....
Sedona holiday traditions. 

This evocative winter atmosphere seems to get Sedonans in the holiday spirit early. In one quirky local tradition, friends and families get out after Thanksgiving and decorate trees all along the scenic five-mile stretch of Highway 179 between Sedona and the Village of Oak Creek. As you drive along, you'll see everything from drugstore garlands to handmade alien faces festooning the junipers and live oak. The local Buddhist community even chooses a fat tree and has its children hang it with natural ornaments they've made with goodies for the wild birds to eat. 

Other traditions draw visitors from all over. Los Abrigados Resort always hosts the Red Rock Fantasy light show (see separate article in calendar of events) from Thanksgiving to just after the first of the year.  

In December, Tlaquepaque Arts and Crafts Village will host its Annual Festival of Lights. This famous Sedona landmark will come alive with the many sounds of the season. Strolling through the courtyards, you might encounter Dickens Carolers, a mariachi troupe, the incomparable Red Rockin' Grannies, or Phoenix's River of Life Tabernacle Choir. Sipping hot cider and nibbling on fresh roasted chestnuts, it's always a pleasure to browse the shops for truly unique gifts until the chapel bell tolls around 6 p.m. Then, with pre-distributed candles, all those in attendance help light the more than 6,000 luminarias (small paper sacks anchored with sand and illuminated by a votive candle) arranged throughout the village, the mellow glow of which creates an unforgettable sight. This year, visitors will have the opportunity to make a symbolic purchase of a luminaria in the memory of a loved one who has been lost to, or is currently battling, cancer. All of the proceeds will be donated to the American Cancer Society for research.


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## hibbeln (Aug 23, 2011)

Here is a link for some info on Yellowstone in the winter.  In particular, look at the map.  The park is HUGE and you'll note if you look at the winter map that it looks like wheeled vehicles only go as far as the entrances in the winter.  So explore and see how you can get in.....I believe you're brought in by sleds and snowmobiles.
THE thing to do is stay at the Old Faithful Inn.  Trust me, this would be a MAGICAL experience!  One of our family members went there in the winter time (they're from Florida, so not used to the winter either) and they went on a snowmobile safari and said it was THE best thing they'd ever done in their lives, it was THAT much fun!

For getting to Yellowstone, you could fly into Jackson Hole, Wyoming (a gorgeous place) then drive up through Grand Tetons National Park and into Yellowstone.  I think this would be the best, though flight prices might be high because it is a ski destination.  This would bring you in the south entrance of YNP.  Flying into Bozeman, Montana would be your closest to the north entrance.  Cody, Wyoming has great cowboy and indian museums and would get you closest to the east entrance, but not sure if they have flights in and out of there.  BUT DOUBLE CHECK with the park service that these entrances are open in the winter!!!!!!!

Seriously, this will be WINTER when you are there.  Be prepared!

Niagara Falls, hmmmmm, it is kind of a one-day thing (at the most) and could be so bitterly, bitterly cold that you can't stand to look at the falls for more than 5 minutes anyway.  It's kind of in the middle of nowhere, so.....so.....sooooooo......?  Uhhhhh, maybe you should wait for summer and do it while swinging through Canada to Toronto and then head over to Detroit to see US!!!!        But I really don't know if I would recommend it in the winter!

Some other places to think about......the *Florida Keys*?  
*Mexico*?  (you could almost certainly get a resort in January).  For Mexico, I would look at the Riviera Maya area and use the chance to go to Chichen Itza, Tulum, cenotes.....(there, now I've given you things to google!).  If you're interested in that I can tell you more things to look at there.
*Charleston, South Carolina *is a nice town, good history (from an American standpoint), lovely architecture.  YOu could probably pick up a rental house for CHEAP but would have a tough time finding a timeshare unit big enough for all of you.  It would also be somewhat warm (or at least not bitterly cold).
*Boston* I would expect to be bitterly cold.  Nice town, but expensive for lodgings!!!!!!!!!
*Canada* - the two obvious places to check out would be Vancouver (which is wintery, but since it is on the coast the city itself does tend to be "warmer and is a very, very nice city) and also Quebec City _*if you're ready to see what "cold" REALLY means!*_  :rofl:   Here is a link to the big winter festival in Quebec City, but I think that would be after you've gone home.  http://www.carnaval.qc.ca/en/  The rest of Canada......cold, winter, desolation.  Get the picture?   
*New Orleans* and the rest of Louisiana again?


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## Passepartout (Aug 23, 2011)

hibbeln said:


> Here is a link for some info on Yellowstone in the winter.  In particular, look at the map.  The park is HUGE and you'll note if you look at the winter map that it looks like wheeled vehicles only go as far as the entrances in the winter.  So explore and see how you can get in.....I believe you're brought in by sleds and snowmobiles.
> THE thing to do is stay at the Old Faithful Inn.  Trust me, this would be a MAGICAL experience!  One of our family members went there in the winter time (they're from Florida, so not used to the winter either) and they went on a snowmobile safari and said it was THE best thing they'd ever done in their lives, it was THAT much fun!



I can certainly recommend this. We have snowmobiled both in and out of Yellowstone (no speed limits outside the park- pretty restricted within). I am not sure that it's THE best thing I've ever done, but it's sure ahead of whatever is in 3rd or 4th place! Yellowstone is home of half the geothermal features on earth, and in Winter it's as if they are all yours alone. Even standing on the deck at Old Faithful, it's YOUR show. Passing elk and bison standing on the groomed trail beside you.....priceless!

I would fly into Idaho Falls, drive the hourish into West Yellowstone. Snow Machine rental come with the insulated suit, helmet, boots, a guide through the park is included and necessary. Snowmobiles are used for normal transportation in West Yellowstone MT. 

Cities with scheduled air transport surrounding YNP are West Yellowstone, Jackson, WY, Idaho Falls, ID and Bozeman, MT. Salt Lake City is the nearest Int'l airport- and a logical gateway for the small planes to the above.

I had posted this somewhere else, and just some of it is filmed in Winter, but literally, here's an overview: http://www.kpbs.org/news/2011/may/05/above-yellowstone/

Jim


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## LLW (Aug 23, 2011)

Sydney said:


> This morning, I was able to book a 3br at Dolphin's Cove from 15th-22nd Dec. That's our 2nd wk in the US.



Just curious - with Worldmark we can't book Dolphin's Cove until 12 months before check-in, and I had thought the same was true for even Dolphin's Cove owners. That would make DC unbookable until Dec 2011, for Dec 2012. So my assumption of DC owners only being able to book 12 months before must be wrong?


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## hibbeln (Aug 23, 2011)

Another place to consider.....*San Diego, California*.
We've stayed there before at timeshares (big units at Lawrence Welk Resort a bit outside of the city in Escondido).  Our kids were pretty little then, but we enjoyed the beach (which is the Pacific, so cold and big waves) and there is a top rated zoo (it's huge!) and wild animal park (just google "San Diego Zoo and Wild Animal Park").  La Jolla is a nearby town with shops and a waterfront with little coves and LOTS of seals.  You can cross over to Mexico (though it's Tijuana which is kind of "yuck").  There's a Sea World.  Just google "San Diego Travel and Tourism" or something like that and you'll come up with lots in the area.  Plus it's a very, very pleasant climate.  So a nice change from some of the snowy places you're looking at.


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## hibbeln (Aug 23, 2011)

Just a quick addition.....15 hours from Sedona to Yellowstone.....that's if you have blue skies and clear roads all the way.  Hit one storm (and you're travelling up the Rocky Mountains so you're sure to!) and you could end up with the trip taking 5 days with you snowed in some way.  Plus, that's some pretty desolate country between the two, so it could be downright dangerous to get stranded somewhere in the winter all alone.  A few years back, my BIL and his family (that live in Denver) drove up to meet us in Grand Tetons National park (just south of Yellowstone).  I think they left about 6 in the evening and drove all night and pulled in right before sunrise.  So......I think that might be a good segment to fly?

I think the West Yellowstone suggestion you got was a good one.  If I remember right, our family stayed somewhere in West Yellowstone and did their "crazy fun" snowmobile adventure outside of the park (where it's anything-goes) and also stayed inside the park for part of the time.  Question just is whether you can make all these different spots work for such a large family without going broke on transportation!


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## Sydney (Aug 24, 2011)

Hi Debi and others. Thanks!!!
Debi, still waiting patiently for you guys to come down to Oz for a visit....

Hadn't thought of Mexico but why not?! I'm checking on RCI now to see what's available. Lots there!

If Niagara Falls is not a good idea, then we're going to skip Northeastern USA and go down South of the border. We can leave Niagara Falls and New York another trip/time.


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## Sydney (Aug 24, 2011)

OK, scrap that. I checked it out. The resorts are nice but we'll need to FLY there. No thanks. Don't like airports. I thought it'd just be a drive South of the border. 

We'll just do a cruise down there instead. Back to the drawing board.

I think we'll confirm that unit in Sedona for Christmas.

LLW - We booked DC as an exchange through RCI. It wasn't Worldmark inventory. We can only book US Worldmark resorts from 11mths out.


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## hibbeln (Aug 24, 2011)

Look at the San Diego area.

Mexico a lot of times (especially AFTER the holidays or in early December) when kids are in school you can get cheap flights there.  Wouldn't drive through it, good way to get your head cut off!

If you really have your heart set on Niagara Falls, look at going to Toronto also to make your trip that way worthwhile.   Toronto is a northern city set up for winter with an underground mall, etc.   They tend to have good theater productions.   I think Vancouver is a more interesting city, but.......

Tucson, Arizona?!

Are you going to do all/most timeshares?


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## Sydney (Aug 26, 2011)

Mostly timeshares Debi. A few hotels here and there. We're looking to stay in the South a bit more. All this talk about the cold is sinking in. I really don't like being cccccold!


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## hibbeln (Aug 26, 2011)

I was looking through the RCI book for places that have timeshares and wouldn't be cold.  One or two cold places might be fun for you, but.....!  :rofl:      When we say cold we can really mean COLD!!!!!!  
Plus, going cold places can mean such a packing problem for you.    
What jumped out at me for places you would have good availability for timeshares (and large timeshares so all the Langs aren't crammed into a studio unit) would be San Diego, Tucson, Sedona (all warm or warmish).  
The Carolina coasts (like Hilton Head) would have lots of availability but might be quite chilly and might be a total snooze with the whole place shut down (hence, the availability!).   Someone else could probably advise you better on that.  You could probably get a very nice beachfront home RENTAL for a reasonable price at this time of year.
Florida will have availability and be warm because they have lots of timeshares.  The Florida Keys would make a nice change from the rest of Florida, but the timeshares are few and far between, tend to not be large, aren't necessarily very nice, and are HARD to get!!!!
The Gulf Coast would be reasonably warm.
Vancouver, British Columbia (Canada) won't be as cold as the rest of Canada because it's on the Pacific Coast.  And it's a very nice, cosmopolitan city.
Mexico would be warm and have availability.  South of Cancun you can see lots of interesting Mayan ruins and cenotes and things.  At Cabo San Lucas you can see the whales that winter in the Sea of Cortez to have their babies.  Flying from southern California or from Phoenix you should be able to find cheap charters as long as you aren't right at Christmas/New Years.


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## Ken555 (Aug 26, 2011)

Others will disagree with me, but I'm not traveling to Mexico right now due to safety concerns. If you do elect to go there, read up on this and be very aware of your surroundings, and be sure your family understands the situation, especially if they go off alone exploring, etc. Certain areas are safe, but the entire situation in Mexico is enough for me not to want to enter the country. There are lots of other interesting places to visit which don't have this potential problem.

And, the advice here about travel time by car is accurate. Winter driving in the States is not always fun and relaxing; it can easily be the most stressful part of your trip. Plan carefully!


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## sue1947 (Aug 26, 2011)

Another resort suggestion for you:
Starr Pass Golf Suites in Tucson.  We stayed there last December and really enjoyed it. It's on the far west end of town on a hillside with a trailhead for hiking in Tucson Mtn Park right in back of the units along with the golf courses (it's near the Marriott).  Tucson is a nice town to explore and also has lots of outdoor options from a ski area (Mt Lemmon) to Saguaro National Park, Sabino Canyon etc.  It's a good spot to use as a base for exploring Southern Arizona while Sedona provides access to N Arizona.  There are also a bunch of timeshares in Phoenix/Scottsdale area but I think that's too close to Sedona.  I've also stayed at the Worldmark at Rancho Vistoso which is north of Tucson and has large units.  Between the two, I prefer the location (and the temperpedic mattresses) of Starr Pass.  You can also do a day trip (long one but doable) to Organ Pipe Cactus National Park or Chiricauhau National Monument.  

If you want to try for Yosemite, you should plan that at the beginning when snow issues are less likely.  I was there a few years ago in January and had a week of sunshine, but the week before had been record breaking snows.  The best timeshare is probably Worldmark's Bass Lake, but I would suggest a stay in the Valley for at least one night if you can.  The drive in from Bass Lake is long.


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## donnaval (Aug 27, 2011)

> Niagara Falls, hmmmmm, it is kind of a one-day thing (at the most) and could be so bitterly, bitterly cold that you can't stand to look at the falls for more than 5 minutes anyway. It's kind of in the middle of nowhere, so.....so.....sooooooo......?



I strongly second this!  Yeah, it can be pretty but it can be horrendously stressful if the weather is not cooperating.  We have close family in Buffalo just minutes from the American side of the falls and have to get up that way often.  We always dread the winter trips, and a good half of them need to be rescheduled, canceled, or take twice as long to complete because of all the snow.  The Canadian side of the falls is nicer (although quite kitschy and touristy) so you do have a border crossing to contend with.  We had laser eye surgery in Niagara Falls (Canadian side) and had to make several trips over January/February a few years ago -never again!  Everything is closed (no Maid of the Mist boat, for example), few restaurants are open, the wind was awful and part of the falls were frozen.  So were the observation platforms, which could not be used.  We love doing wine tours in Niagara on the Lake (Canadian side) but they don't offer them in the winter.  The falls are awesome, and it's interesting to see how they looked in the winter versus the summer, but I would never visit again in winter unless I could not avoid it.

We are about 5 hours south of Niagara Falls, and I can't stand OUR winters:rofl:


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