# Hyatt Selected to Manage Aviara Resort [merged]



## lynne (Apr 20, 2010)

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Hyatt-Selected-to-Manage-bw-2723415233.html?x=0&.v=1


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## clsmit (Apr 20, 2010)

Here's what's on the Four Seasons Aviara website (hotel side):

Four Seasons will be concluding our management of Four Seasons Resort Aviara effective June 21, 2010. We have been very proud to manage Four Seasons Resort Aviara for the last 13 years. In that time, the Resort has garnered numerous awards and accolades, including being named to Travel and Leisure World’s Best Awards 2003-2010; named as a AAA Five-Diamond Award for ten years running; listed on Conde Nast Traveler's "Gold List" from 1999-2009; and Golf Digest’s “Top 75 Golf Resorts in America” 2010. 

If you have a reservation before June 21, 2010, you will not be affected by this change. If you have questions about your reservation, please contact our Worldwide Reservations Office at 1-800-819-5053 or the hotel directly.


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## l2trade (Apr 20, 2010)

This is a good thing.  Maybe Hyatt will lower the quality of Aviara just enough so that I can get an exchange into there someday again.  I miss that place.

There is another resort I will not name that I really wish Hyatt would take over...


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## Kagehitokiri2 (Apr 20, 2010)

why is this in starwood forum?

FS will still manage the TS right?


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## Bill4728 (Apr 20, 2010)

Kagehitokiri2 said:


> why is this in starwood forum?
> 
> FS will still manage the TS right?


I've moved this to the US western board


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## Steve (Apr 20, 2010)

This is fascinating news.  I wondered when we would finally hear the results of the arbitration between Four Seasons and the owners of the hotel.  The management of Four Seasons was adament that their long term management agreement was binding and would prevail, but the arbitration panel obviously didn't agree.  

As for the Residence Club, this shouldn't result in any major changes other than perhaps the ability to use the facilities of the hotel...and possibly higher fees as a result of lost synergy and a need to duplicate services.  The Residence Club should remain a Four Seasons as it is a separate entity from the hotel and was not directly involved in the dispute.

Steve


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## Quimby4 (Apr 21, 2010)

Park Hyatt Aviara Resort

So the timeshare will stay Four Seasons, interesting...


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## GrayFal (Apr 21, 2010)

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2010/apr/20/aviara-and-four-seasons-cut-ties/

This link spells it out a bit more....
"The acrimonious relationship between the Four Seasons hotel management firm and the owner of Carlsbad’s Aviara Resort has ended in divorce after an arbitration panel decided Tuesday that the two companies should terminate their business agreement.

Broadreach Capital Partners, the owner of Aviara, said Four Seasons would be replaced by Park Hyatt, the upscale, contemporary Hyatt brand, as manager of the swanky 329-room resort by June 21. *Four Seasons will continue to manage the Aviara’s 132 time-share villas." *


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## zentraveler (Apr 21, 2010)

*Four Seasons Aviara to become Park Hyatt*

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2010/apr/20/aviara-and-four-seasons-cut-ties/

The residence club will remain under management by the Four Seasons but this an obvious major hurt for the residence club (and its owners  )


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## abwinston (Apr 21, 2010)

*Four Seasons change in management*

It appears that the hotel will be managed by Hyatt starting June 21 but the timeshares will continue to be a Four Seasons item. It is totally unclear what will be the relationship with the hotel, the tennis, the children's camp etc.
Does anybody have a clue? 
  the secondary issue is what will happen to the value of the timeshares with this uncertainty? Any thoughts out there?


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## Steve (Apr 21, 2010)

abwinston said:


> It appears that the hotel will be managed by Hyatt starting June 21 but the timeshares will continue to be a Four Seasons item. It is totally unclear what will be the relationship with the hotel, the tennis, the children's camp etc.
> Does anybody have a clue?
> the secondary issue is what will happen to the value of the timeshares with this uncertainty? Any thoughts out there?



We don't know yet what the relationship will be between the Residence Club and the hotel after Hyatt takes over the hotel.  I would guess that Hyatt will want the income that could be generated by Residence Club owners and guests paying to use the hotel facilities.  Hyatt may charge more for the hotel privileges...but I suspect that we won't know the specifics for a while.  (Of course, nothing has been cheap with Four Seasons, so perhaps the fees for various activities will actually go down.    )

As for the value of the timeshare villas, this change is not going to help.  At least in the short-term, I suspect that prices will continue to decline.  (They were already way down as a result of the economy.) 

Long term, who knows?  A few possibilities:

1)  Things stay pretty much as they are with Four Seasons managing the Residence Club for decades to come.
2)  Four Seasons raises the fees significantly because they aren't managing the hotel and therefore can't spread out the costs as effectively.
3)  Four Seasons...which has not exactly been pleased with the performance of their weekly timeshare resorts...could decline to extend their management contract with the HOA when it expires.
4)  Hyatt could make a pitch to the HOA to take over management of the timeshares and rebrand them as Hyatt Vacation Club.
5)  Any combination of the above.

It will be interesting to see what happens.

Steve


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## GregGH (Apr 21, 2010)

Hi

This thread >>>  has some good background info ...http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=97411

In case anyone wants background info

I am curious to know what is happening at some other locations ... if Maritz, Wolff & Co. of St. Louis sold a share of any other FS locations ( Nevis or Toronto ) to Broadreach.   Remember that Toronto is FS head office and flagship hotel.   Business is built on trust and respect --I would say that this has been crushed by Broadreach and their ability to re-finance at the high point then bitch .... like they are the only ones ...;-)

Greg


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## davidvel (Apr 21, 2010)

GregGH said:


> Hi
> 
> This thread >>>  has some good background info ...http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=97411
> 
> In case anyone wants background info


Who needs background info when people can speculate? 

(I heard Four Seasons is coming out with a "new program" :hysterical:  )


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## NWL (Apr 22, 2010)

davidvel said:


> Who needs background info when people can speculate?
> 
> (I heard Four Seasons is coming out with a "new program" :hysterical:  )



You Devil you!!

Cheers!


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## K2Quick (Apr 23, 2010)

Steve said:


> 4)  Hyatt could make a pitch to the HOA to take over management of the timeshares and rebrand them as Hyatt Vacation Club.
> Steve



The way Hyatt Vacation Club works would make it very difficult for Hyatt to take over management of a non-Hyatt property.  The biggest obstacle (at least if I understand it correctly) would be that all of HVC's managed properties are sold as fixed-week (and I believe unit numbers are also fixed in many cases).  FSA has predominantly floating weeks.  I'm not sure how you would meld any floating system into Hyatt's system without upsetting a large number of owners.


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## heathpack (Apr 23, 2010)

K2Quick said:


> The way Hyatt Vacation Club works would make it very difficult for Hyatt to take over management of a non-Hyatt property.  The biggest obstacle (at least if I understand it correctly) would be that all of HVC's managed properties are sold as fixed-week (and I believe unit numbers are also fixed in many cases).  FSA has predominantly floating weeks.  I'm not sure how you would meld any floating system into Hyatt's system without upsetting a large number of owners.



I am not sure why HVC owners would be upset?!

Hyatt Residence Clubs are sold as multiple-weeks ownership and I believe some of those weeks are floating time, so there is a precedent for owning float time within the Hyatt system.  But even if there weren't and Hyatt sold you an Aviaria week as float time, you would presumably be ok with that or you wouldn't buy.

Hyatt owners with fixed weeks elsewhere can use the club to obtain full or partial weeks at HVC properties on an "as-available" basis.  I can't see why one would care if the week you are using within the club is owned as a float or a fixed week.

Who the heck knows what will happen with this, but I think the mechanics of this would be quite workable within the Hyatt Vacation Club system.

Personally, I would be very happy if that happened!

H


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## K2Quick (Apr 23, 2010)

heathpack said:


> I am not sure why HVC owners would be upset?!
> 
> Hyatt Residence Clubs are sold as multiple-weeks ownership and I believe some of those weeks are floating time, so there is a precedent for owning float time within the Hyatt system.  But even if there weren't and Hyatt sold you an Aviaria week as float time, you would presumably be ok with that or you wouldn't buy.
> H



I wasn't referring to current HVC owners who would be upset.  I was referring to FSA owners who could be upset.  With the residence club, I think Hyatt owners are allocated one fixed week in the prime season that most people want to visit along with a week or two of float time in the off-season.  But even those owners have fixed weeks.


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## Steve (Apr 23, 2010)

K2Quick said:


> I wasn't referring to current HVC owners who would be upset.  I was referring to FSA owners who could be upset.  With the residence club, I think Hyatt owners are allocated one fixed week in the prime season that most people want to visit along with a week or two of float time in the off-season.  But even those owners have fixed weeks.



The reason FSA owners would be upset by a Hyatt takeover of the Residence Club would be the loss of the Four Seasons name and the cachet that goes with it.  Some would also dislike losing the ability to trade into other non-II affiliated Four Seasons resorts...although that is limited and difficult at best.

I don't think there would be a problem with the structure of the Hyatt Vacation Club, though.  As Four Seasons owners have deeded floating weeks, that's what they would own with Hyatt.  The floating nature of the weeks cannot be changed.  So instead of a resort with all fixed weeks...or a mix of fixed and floating weeks...like other Hyatts, Aviara would be 100% floating.  This shouldn't pose much of a problem for Hyatt, however.  The Aviara owners would simply have to reserve a week in their home season before exchanging for Hyatt points.  

Do I think the HOA would agree to go with Hyatt?  No, unless Four Seasons decided not to renew the management agreement.  Under that circumstance, I think that Hyatt might have a chance.  I personally would prefer to stay with Four Seasons, and I think most owners would as well.

Steve


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## alwysonvac (Apr 24, 2010)

*Aviara Owners Letter*

Just received the following email today....



> April 24, 2010
> 
> 
> Dear Owners,
> ...



Copy of Press Release that came with the email - http://www.wcax.com/Global/story.asp?S=12344687


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## yumdrey (Apr 24, 2010)

*Four Seasons Aviara update*

I got this e-mail today.
I don't know how it will affect my ownership on Aviara, but thought I need to share this info with other tuggers.
So... four seasons hotel will be Hyatt hotel and residence club aviara will remain under four seasons?

April 24, 2010  

Dear Owners,   On April 20, it was announced that Four Seasons will be concluding itsmanagement of the Resort effective June 21, 2010. We have been advisedthat, subject to lender approval, Hyatt Hotels & Resorts will assumemanagement of the hotel under the Park Hyatt brand. As you will recall thehotel owner, BRCP, and the Four Seasons have been in arbitration for sometime. Please see the attached press release for further information. While we are disappointed that Four Seasons will no longer manage thehotel, we will continue to manage Four Seasons Residence Club Aviara withthe same commitment to high standards and service as before. Four Seasons is currently working with the hotel owner to put in place aplan that will be implemented over the next two months to allow for asmooth transition of the hotel operation to Hyatt. In addition, the HOABoard, along with the Four Seasons management team, will be engaging indiscussions with the hotel owner and new operator regarding the enhancementand maintenance of existing amenities and shared services. As soon as wehave additional information in this regard, we will update you. We know you will have many questions, but at the present time, we havelimited information to share other than what is contained in the attachedpress release. We will strive to keep you informed as much as possible aswe move through this process. Thank you for your understanding and patience. As always, please feel freeto contact me or Owner Services if you have any questions or concerns.  Sincerely,  
Dean Hyry
Vice President Residential OperationsFour Seasons Hotels & Resorts


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## GregGH (Apr 24, 2010)

Questions ...

Broadreach Capital owns Dolce and wanted them to manage the property ... was Hyatt forced upon then by arbitration ?

BRCP states on web site that 20 acres of developable land at Aviara.  In 1997 when the tennis court agreement was signed( yep - pulled out the legal stuff- and skimmed a bit ) there were 40 units  ( more built since then )  "will ultimately be comprised of approximately 240 dwelling units" ... wonder what plans they have in store ...  the pads for additional units are kept trimmed but one wonders what kind of market there is for more?   If you where BRCP - what else would you add ?

Greg


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## ral (Apr 25, 2010)

Steve said:


> The reason FSA owners would be upset by a Hyatt takeover of the Residence Club would be the loss of the Four Seasons name and the cachet that goes with it.  Some would also dislike losing the ability to trade into other non-II affiliated Four Seasons resorts...although that is limited and difficult at best.
> 
> I don't think there would be a problem with the structure of the Hyatt Vacation Club, though.  As Four Seasons owners have deeded floating weeks, that's what they would own with Hyatt.  The floating nature of the weeks cannot be changed.  So instead of a resort with all fixed weeks...or a mix of fixed and floating weeks...like other Hyatts, Aviara would be 100% floating.  This shouldn't pose much of a problem for Hyatt, however.  The Aviara owners would simply have to reserve a week in their home season before exchanging for Hyatt points.
> 
> ...



Not to be contrary, but I, for one, would welcome Hyatt Vacation Club to take over management of the Aviara Residence Club property. It would provide much more flexibility with regard to internal trading and might even lower maintenance fees, given that daily maid service would likely be eliminated. As both a Four Seasons Residence Club owner and a Hyatt Vacation Club owner, I find the Hyatt program offers much more flexibility. If I remember correctly, Hyatt Vacation Club was considering building in Newport Beach, CA. Wouldn't this be a terrific way for Hyatt Vacation Club to have a presence in Southern California? With a different pricing structure, HVC might even want to attempt completion of the originally planned buildout of 240 units.


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## chibuilder (Apr 25, 2010)

In my conversation with the Director of Residence's for Aviara, he assured me that they are working to maintain the level of service that we have come to expect from Four Seasons and that they don't have any intention of changing management or abandoning Aviara residence club mgmt.  I'm pretty sure we would all welcome lower annual maintenance fees but in my experience, association fees rarely if ever go down.  They are generally not bound by gravity.  Most of us that bought into the Residence Club concept did so because of the "Four Seasons Experience" which includes tremendous attention to detail "sweating the small stuff."  I would not have bought were another company managing the resort and I think that is generally the case for the majority of owners who bought "Four Seasons."   Eliminating daily maid service would be a HUGE turn-off for me and most of my friends who own at FSA.  In my humble opinion, that would signal a huge drop in service level.   Hyatt taking over the hotel as a result of the arbitration ultimately results in a devaluation of our ownership but after my conversation with the FSA Director of Residences for Aviara, I am content, for now, to wait and see how they address the melding of resort amenities with residence club privileges.  The fact that he took the time to call me at close to 10pm on Wed. night because he wanted to get back to me in person before heading home for the evening, after what we know was a terribly trying day for him, is demonstrative of the level of personalized customer service that we, as Four Seasons owners come to expect and enjoy.  I may not have loved all his answers to my questions, but the fact that he took the time to get back to me personally is testament to the Four Seasons experience that we all enjoy.  So, for now, we wait and see and I'm sure that there will be some stress in late June and into July but I'm hoping that by the end of July (if not sooner) we all have a sense of what this really means.  And, for what it's worth, when I called the Four Seasons reservation line on Tuesday night and inquired about Aviara, after speaking with a superviser, the woman I spoke with assured me that usage of the resort amenities will remain unchanged.  Let's see what unfolds but I certainly hope that doesn't include a decline or elimination of service.


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## alwysonvac (Apr 25, 2010)

jonlevey, thanks for sharing your conversation 

I also purposely bought because of the "Four Seasons Experience". I'm not happy about the hotel situation and definitely would be upset if Four Seasons no longer managed the Residence Club. I would not have purchased Aviara if it was managed by any other brand.



> *From the Aviara Residence Club Owner's Association Minutes of the Annual Meeting of the Members (11/2/09)*
> 
> Under the section titled "Meeting Called to Order"
> _Mr Clemens, a Director and President of the Association, introduced himself and advised that he would be acting as Chairman for the meeting. Mr Clemens then called the meeting to order._
> ...


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## scoccermom (Apr 27, 2010)

The value of FSA timeshares have plummeted since the announcement of the change of guard.  Gold weeks were selling on Ebay for between $5000 to $7000 prior to the announcement.  After the announcement, the maximum bids were $2700.


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## eal (Apr 27, 2010)

The only Aviara timeshare for sale on ebay right now is a 2-bedroom unit floating non-summer week for the buy-it-now price of $17,000!


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## theduck (Apr 28, 2010)

*Aviara Community Responds*

http://www.prweb.com/releases/2010/04/prweb3928634.htm
good article http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/images/smilies/cheer.gif


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## GregGH (Apr 29, 2010)

theduck said:


> http://www.prweb.com/releases/2010/04/prweb3928634.htm
> good article http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/images/smilies/cheer.gif



Hello Duck  --  Are you promoting your own PR release ??  Really was an average link IMHO.  The PR blurb finally get around to announcing (yet another) real estate broker.

Hello Soccermom - we meet again ...  Did you ever buy that week or are you a tire kicker who promotes lower prices?

E-Bay is not exactly the cutting edge to PROVE the fair market price.  If you search my posts - a few years ago I figured out how to log into the San Diego county tax roll and get 'resale prices' -- gee - not a clue how I did that now (smile).  But the post and the excel data should still be  here for the next gen of TUGers.   it helped to have your tax roll data handy (owners have that)

I think the biggest thing to push prices down for Aviara was the 2008 recession and some forced sales.  Hang in there --this is a VERY LONG SLOW story to evolve ...lets look at this in 2-3 years and we will see with the benefit of hindsight.

Greg


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## scoccermom (Apr 30, 2010)

I'm no longer a tire kicker.  I've decided to pass.  With kids, we need to be flexible.  Renting gives us that flexibility, and right now, it's cheaper.  We just stayed there recently. I'm not so sure property values will rise above the rate of the MF's.  But I'm no prophet.


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## GregGH (Sep 6, 2010)

you have to love Google Alerts - just saw this ....

http://hotel-online.com/News/PR2010_3rd/Aug10_BroadreachLoan.html
and this
http://www.sdbj.com/news/2010/aug/30/carlsbad-resorts-loan-placed-special-servicing/

Here is the first part
Park Hyatt Aviara Resort Owner, Broadreach Capital, Notifies Lender
 it is No Longer Able to Service $186.5 million Loan

Broadreach Recently Changed Management from Four Seasons to Hyatt

By Pat Maio, North County Times, Escondido, Calif.McClatchy-Tribune Regional News
August 27, 2010 --CARLSBAD -- An $186.5 million loan to the owner of the coastal Park Hyatt Aviara Resort has been tagged for "imminent default," according to an alert issued by Fitch Ratings, a credit-rating service.

The owner of the 329-room resort situated on 24 acres has notified the lender that it is no longer in a position to pay the debt, which Fitch calls "special servicing," according to Fitch spokesman Sandro Scenga.

So -- options
1) Broadreach use this to squeeze better terms from the lender - and life goes on ( day to day) - it sure causes Hyatt to look over their shoulder and wonder how hard to promote their new location?
2) Got to try hard to feel sorry for any hedge fund - let alone this one - they close and it stays empty for a few years while we wait for the recession/depression to run it's course.  If the hotel closes - then the golf course closes (guessing) and area becomes a great bird watching spot.
3) goes into bankruptcy and someone good picks it up for a song - and life starts again
4)Broadreach rethinks and pays loan from their other 'wonderful' cash rich investments ( the weakest point )

Will sure cause some crazy speculation in some people.  This is one crazy time for investors and vacationers alike.

Wonder what recourse the original investor has ( Marrantz Wolfe ? ) - as they also own several other FS locations including the head office location in Toronto & recently updated Nevis ( but that could be dated into ?)

Greg


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## ricoba (Sep 6, 2010)

I guess their "*reach* wasn't as *broad *as they thought!"


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