# [2012] "Should My Week(s) Be Enrolled?"



## SueDonJ

_Moderator Note: An attempt will be made to keep all of the information in this first post current, however, it's best to verify any information through the TUG FAQ - MVC DESTINATIONS Points Program sticky thread.  All posts following this one will remain unedited so as to provide historical context, and the thread will remain open for related discussion.  Please PM/email the moderator if you find outdated information in this post.  Thanks! _

*******

*1)*  First and most important!  *Enrollment in the DC does not equate to a permanent exchange of your Week(s) to DC Points.*  With respect to existing Week(s) the Destination Club is basically an overlay exchange system, with the same availability limitations as any other exchange system.  Enrollment does not change any of the traditional usage options of your Week(s).  You will still be able to book your home resort in season for personal use, exchange through II, rent through Marriott or privately, etc.  Enrollment simply gives you the additional option of converting your Week(s) to DC Points on an annual basis for usage in the DC system.

*2)*  Effective 6/14/12 the basic Enrollment Fee is $2,395* for all eligible Weeks.  Eligible Weeks include:

- all US and Caribbean resorts Weeks sold prior to 6/20/10
- all Caribbean resort Weeks purchased direct from Marriott between 6/21/10 and 12/26/12
- all European resort Weeks sold prior to 6/18/12
- Weeks purchased direct from Marriott Resales Operations along with certain Trust Points purchases.

*Since the DC inception there have been various other incentive pricing and eligibility options for enrollment; see the TUG discussion forums for any ongoing/current offers.

*3)* To determine how many DC Points your Week(s) will be allotted, sign in to your owners.marriottvacationclub.com account and navigate through "*Enrollment*" under "*Managing Your Ownership*."  Check the "*I have read and understood the above*" box and click on the "*Start Enrolling Now*" button.  An "*Exchange Program Enrollment*" page will come up showing the DC Points values of your Weeks; this link should take you directly to it after you sign in.  You will be able to back out of the enrollment process at this point.

The owner status levels of DC Members are determined by the total number of DC Points for which you're eligible (and not by how many you may be using in a given year.)  These numbers are defined in the docs as a percentage of the aggregate total of DC Points and therefore, are subject to change.  See the "DC Membership Status Tiers" section in the TUG FAQ - MVC DESTINATIONS Points Program thread and the "Benefits At A Glance" chart linked there. 

*4)* The current annual Club Dues fee is $185 for Owners and Select Members, $225 for Executive and Presidential Members, and $250 for Chairman's Club Members.  If you enroll your Week(s) you will be required to pay this annual fee regardless of whether you elect to convert your enrolled Week(s) to DC Points in a given year, and you must pay this annual fee in addition to the annual Maintenance Fees for your specific resorts.  If you do not pay this fee your enrollment will end; re-enrollment will be subject to the terms and fees in effect at the time of re-enrollment.

This fee covers the per/transaction Marriott fees related to Weeks usage such as cancellations, lock-offs, MRP-exchanges, etc.  There has been one fee increase since the DC introduction.

*5)*  The Club Dues fee also covers the II dues for the new/corporate II account which will be assigned to you, as well as the Marriott-to-Marriott exchange fees through that new II account.  Note if you exchange your enrolled Week(s) through that new II account to non-Marriott resorts, or, if you include a non-Marriott resort in an ongoing search through that account (regardless of whether it's ultimately matched to a Marriott resort,) you will be required to pay those II exchange fees.  As well, if you own non-Marriott resorts you will have to maintain a separate II account for those.

If you have an ongoing request in your old II account, that Week deposit will remain in that account and you will have to pay the II transaction fee for its ultimate exchange match.

When all of your Weeks have been enrolled and moved into your new II account, you will be eligible for AC's from II depending on how many months/years you have remaining on your old account: one AC if you have between one year and 35 months remaining, two AC's if you have between three years and 59 months, three AC's if you have more than five years remaining.  They'll be issued/processed in your old/individual account on a staggered basis, and you will have to pay the exchange fees for their use.  Each will expire one year from the date of issue.  Some TUGgers have been able to get a partial refund of their II dues, instead of keeping their old accounts open with these AC's, by calling in to II and requesting it.

Those of us who have enrolled our Week(s) do not see any differences between our old/individual and new/corporate II accounts.  The website interface is the same, inventory is the same for exchanges and Getaways, the occasional II promotions for extra intervals are the same, access to the Choose2 program is the same, up-grading to Gold and Plat status in II is the same, etc.  Through experience TUGgers have found that the Club Dues fee covers some of these II extras but not all.  Discussion about current coverage may be found later in the thread or elsewhere in the discussion forum.

*6)* Enrolled Week(s) that were purchased direct from Marriott will retain the Marriott Rewards Points exchange option as it was originally offered.  Any pre-6/20/10 external resale Week(s) which are enrolled will gain an MRP exchange option as defined in the MR-related governing document:


> 4.c.	An Eligible Member who did not have the ability to trade the use of their Interest in a particular Use Year for Marriott Rewards points prior to enrollment in the Marriott Vacation Club Destinations Exchange Program shall receive the amount of Marriott Rewards points for each traded Interest as specified in the applicable Resort Rules & Regulations for the resort where the Interest is located. If the applicable Resort Rules & Regulations for the resort where the Interest is located does not identify the amount of Marriott Rewards points to be received for the traded Interest, then the Eligible Member shall not have the ability to trade the use of their Interest for Marriott Rewards points after enrollment in the Marriott Vacation Club Destinations Exchange Program. The option to trade the Use Period associated with the Exchange Member’s Interest per season for Marriott Rewards points shall be limited to non-successive Use Years; i.e. trades may not be made two (2) years in a row, or in the case of an every-other-year Eligible Member, at least three (3) years must separate Use Years in which trades are made, as specified in the Resort Rules & Regulations. The applicable Resort Rules & Regulations for the resort where the Interest is located shall also govern the number of Marriott Rewards points the Eligible Member may receive for the assignment of a Use Period associated with the Exchange Member’s Interest.



Basically, an enrolled external-resale Week will be eligible for the same amount of MRP that a similar direct-purchase Week is allotted, but on a reduced-frequency basis.  For example, a SurfWatch Plat 3BR direct-purchase Week can be exchanged annually for 135K MRP.  A same-interval Week purchased prior to 6/20/10 on the external market will gain upon enrollment the option to exchange it every-other-year for 135K MRP.

*7)*  Occasionally there may be various enrollment incentives including reduced enrollment fees, one-time bonus DC Points, Encore Packages, etc.  Any bonus DC Points given as an incentive will expire one year from the date of issue and may be used to book reservations within 60 days of check-in. The current Points Charts are linked in the TUG Points FAQ; they stipulate the number of DC Points required to reserve intervals. Play around to get an idea of how much usage value you can get out of those bonus Points - consider using them to tack on extra days to a Week(s) reservation, a weekend at a drive-to resort, etc.

Note these Points Charts are also the one you'll use to figure out usage of enrolled Week(s) that you've converted to DC Points.

*8)*  If you do enroll your Week(s) remember that the status and usage rules of each program do not extend to the other.  You follow the rules for whichever system you're using at the time.  For example, if you're booking Weeks then you go by the same Reservation Windows you always have, and if you're booking DC Points then you follow the Reservation Windows for those.  There are many new links on the owners.marriottvacationclub.com website to help figure out the mechanics of all the different usage options.

*9)*  Enrollment of a Week does not transfer upon resale of the Week to the new owner, and, the new owner will not be able to enroll the Week because external resales purchased after 6/20/10 or 6/18/12 are not eligible for enrollment.  Upon family transfer of an enrolled Week, the enrollment can transfer although the new owner of record may have to pay the then-current enrollment fee.  (The family transfer info is based on statements from Marriott execs since the DC inception; I don't think any actual transactions have been reported to TUG.)

********
Generally, enrollment in the DC makes the least amount of sense for owners of a single Week who do not routinely pay more than $175 annually in per/transaction Marriott and II fees, i.e. owners who use their Weeks at home resorts in season.  It makes the most sense for owners of multi-Weeks who routinely pay annual fees in excess of $215, i.e. those who lock-off and/or exchange on a regular basis.  For some, the flexible usage options - less-than-7-days DC Points stays, non-weekend check-in dates, the ability to bank/borrow Points to different Use Years, etc. - are major factors in favor of DC enrollment.  Certainly, some Weeks have been valued much higher than others by Marriott and the high Points allotments of those Weeks is another major factor.

Perhaps the single most hotly-debated topic related to enrollment is "skim."  Briefly, in most instances the allotment of Points for a Week will not be enough to book that Week or a similar Week.  Some TUGgers think this is reason enough to not participate in the DC; others accept it as "the cost of doing business."  It should definitely be understood but remember that enrollment does not mean that a Week must be converted to DC Points - many enrolled members continue to use their Weeks and II exchanges as they always have.

There is no one right or wrong answer.  Take a look at your usage pattern and figure out if enrollment in the DC would, a) be cost-effective on a regular basis, or b) expand your options in ways that you will most likely take advantage of in the future.  Then consider your gut feelings and make your decision.  Finally, whatever you decide, go on and enjoy your vacations no matter how you're able to book them!   

Good luck - it's not always an easy decision.


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## Bill4728

Susan  

what a wonderful job of answering most questions about enrolling your week.

PS I changed the title a little


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## TheTimeTraveler

Sue;  so well summarized.   This should be a "sticky"

Nice job!



.


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## SueDonJ

Thanks.     I hope others chime in because it's for certain that I didn't include everything that might matter with such personal decisions.  Plus I'll be back here editing and adding while I can (like the #9 that I just added) so if you see something wrong, don't be afraid to point it out!


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## sjnoble

Thank you Susan this is very helpful.

We are a single week 1-br owner, still debating whether to enroll.
We do exchange most of the time and have been getting AC's for all deposits.
So the $165 should be less than paying the II annual due + 1 exchange fee.
But do I still have to pay II for using the AC? It'd be an easier decision if the $165 would cover the use of the AC as well...


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## dioxide45

sjnoble said:


> Thank you Susan this is very helpful.
> 
> We are a single week 1-br owner, still debating whether to enroll.
> We do exchange most of the time and have been getting AC's for all deposits.
> So the $165 should be less than paying the II annual due + 1 exchange fee.
> But do I still have to pay II for using the AC? It'd be an easier decision if the $165 would cover the use of the AC as well...



You will still have to pay to use the AC(s) you get for enrolling. They are placed in your old II account.


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## sjnoble

dioxide45 said:


> You will still have to pay to use the AC(s) you get for enrolling. They are placed in your old II account.


I'm wondering how about after enrolling? If I continue to use it the current way, deposit and get AC's, do I have to pay for using the AC in the new II account?


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## dioxide45

sjnoble said:


> I'm wondering how about after enrolling? If I continue to use it the current way, deposit and get AC's, do I have to pay for using the AC in the new II account?



This is covered by the last paragraph in item 5) of Sue's original post. You have to pay to use the ACs as they are a promotional item in II.


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## SueDonJ

sjnoble said:


> I'm wondering how about after enrolling? If I continue to use it the current way, deposit and get AC's, do I have to pay for using the AC in the new II account?





dioxide45 said:


> This is covered by the last paragraph in item 5) of Sue's original post. You have to pay to use the ACs as they are a promotional item in II.



Right, I expect to have to pay to use AC's in our new II accounts, because the latest AC offers for Weeks deposits that we got in the mail referenced our new account number and included the same exchange fees as offers we'd received in the past.

(There have been a few posts to TUG over the last couple years in which II fees have not been charged when they should have been.  One that I distinctly remember is an XYZ that was booked through a new/corporate account.  I think those mistakes by II reps will be few and far between as time goes on.  We'll have to chalk them up as one of those things that you just have to consider yourself lucky if it happens, but you have no way to fight for it if it doesn't.)


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## m61376

Sue-
great summary!!
One question though- was #6 ever definitively clarified? I know many of us were told that resale weeks could trade for reward points every other year, and there was some question in the past as to whether the "in the case of an every-other-year Eligible Member" verbiage referred to members who could trade for points every other year or to every other year owners, such that trading for points every other year for an EOY owner would mean skipping at least 3 years.

I don't really care, but if we are going to make this a sticky and present it as factual we should clarify that so someone who cares about it will have the right info. (unless it has been definitively clarified, in which case :ignore: )

At any extent, kudos for a concise reference post!!


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## SueDonJ

m61376 said:


> Sue-
> great summary!!
> One question though- was #6 ever definitively clarified? I know many of us were told that resale weeks could trade for reward points every other year, and there was some question in the past as to whether the "in the case of an every-other-year Eligible Member" verbiage referred to members who could trade for points every other year or to every other year owners, such that trading for points every other year for an EOY owner would mean skipping at least 3 years.
> 
> I don't really care, but if we are going to make this a sticky and present it as factual we should clarify that so someone who cares about it will have the right info. (unless it has been definitively clarified, in which case :ignore: )
> 
> At any extent, kudos for a concise reference post!!



Thanks, m, and no I don't think any Marriott rep or exec has put out a definitive official statement regarding the MRP-exchange option.  As many of them as you'll ask, that might be as many different answers as you'll get!  And none of the info on my-vacationclub.com clarifies it, either.

They do all seem to agree that an every-year option for a direct-purchase Week will become an every-other-year option for enrolled external-resale Weeks, which is why I included that specific example in what I wrote.

But until they clear up the confusion and get on the same page with the rest of it, as far as whether the "every other year" wording applies to EOY eligibility of direct-purchase Weeks or EOY ownership of any Weeks, I figured it would be best to include the actual quoted stipulation and let time and practical application dictate the meaning.  Eventually, hopefully, we'll all know the answer.


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## dioxide45

SueDonJ said:


> Thanks, m, and no I don't think any Marriott rep or exec has put out a definitive official statement regarding the MRP-exchange option.  As many of them as you'll ask, that might be as many different answers as you'll get!  And none of the info on my-vacationclub.com clarifies it, either.
> 
> They do all seem to agree that an every-year option for a direct-purchase Week will become an every-other-year option for enrolled external-resale Weeks, which is why I included that specific example in what I wrote.
> 
> But until they clear up the confusion and get on the same page with the rest of it, as far as whether the "every other year" wording applies to EOY eligibility of direct-purchase Weeks or EOY ownership of any Weeks, I figured it would be best to include the actual quoted stipulation and let time and practical application dictate the meaning.  Eventually, hopefully, we'll all know the answer.



We probably wont' really get clarification until a resale owner of an EY week successfully exchanges for points on year then again two years after. We can chat with the reps and ask all the questions, but I never trust the answers 100% until we see some actual confirmed situations where we have evidence.

I think that item 6) is good as written, it doesn't confirm or dispute either position. It presents it as it is written in the documentation. I see no problem with it as presented, it is still factual, just open to interpretation.


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## JimC

Sue,

Excellent summary, particularly the conclusion.

We own a pair of EOY developer weeks and an EY resale, so we get variety without exchanging.  We have plenty of MRPs and our DVC membership to do whatever else we want.  Since we nearly always stay where we own, our regular annual fees are only an II account.  No realistic savings by enrolling and the additional options don't interest us.  Doubt this makes any sense in our situation.


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## dioxide45

For item 4), I believe the consolidated fee also covers the split week fee at resorts that offer split week and the daily fee usage options at Newport Coast and Custom House. Can anyone confirm?

_Edited to Add: _I think I may have found something on the my-vacationclub.com website:



> Your annual Club Dues include membership and reservation fees such as the following:
> 
> 
> Membership with Interval International
> Interval International internal exchange fees
> Reservation fees
> Electing Vacation Club Points
> Banking, borrowing or transferring Vacation Club Points
> Additional fees may be required for Explorer Collection vacations, such as port taxes for cruises may apply. For more information about the Explorer Collection please click here.



My guess is that Reservation Fees includes those split week, lock off, and daily use fees?


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## SueDonJ

dioxide45 said:


> For item 4), I believe the consolidated fee also covers the split week fee at resorts that offer split week and the daily fee usage options at Newport Coast and Custom House. Can anyone confirm?
> 
> _Edited to Add: _I think I may have found something on the my-vacationclub.com website:
> 
> My guess is that Reservation Fees includes those split week, lock off, and daily use fees?



I'd guess the same, that they're all covered.


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## FractionalTraveler

*This is why I love the DC.........*

Availability, Availability, Availability!

Check out a sampling of vacations currently available for enrolled owners:

1. *Christmas in Boston at Custom House *- https://public.bay.livefilestore.co...x264vzN6n4K2mqXpIZcKQ/Custom House.png?psid=1

2. *New Years in a 3-bedroom at Las Vegas Grand Chateau *- https://public.bay.livefilestore.co...5l00NqhlbdmyNFISN3rA/Grand Chateau.png?psid=1

3. *At the beach in Oceanfront 2-bedroom Oceana Palms *- https://public.bay.livefilestore.co...pZ5nR422f9fIIMmfeboDQ/Oceana Palms.png?psid=1

4. *On the beach Oceanfront at Marco Island's Crystal Shores *- https://public.bay.livefilestore.co...BP_c1TXyHtWhDmCjgYQ/Crystal Shores.png?psid=1

5. *On the beach in Fort Lauderdale's 2-bedroom BeachPlace **Towers* - https://public.bay.livefilestore.co...-RR7qulyS5kPoJ7IsQ/Fort Lauderdale.png?psid=1

6. *Valentines week at Summit Watch in a 2-bedroom *- https://public.bay.livefilestore.co...bSew-ZnLEgIAIzUYscf6w/Summit Watch.png?psid=1

7. *Presidents Ski Week at Timberlodge in a 2-bedroom *- https://public.bay.livefilestore.co...IskVC1qmLZuGAy17D4T5g/Timber Lodge.png?psid=1

8. *Cadillac Golf Championship Week at Doral in a 2-Bedroom *- https://public.bay.livefilestore.co...C_nSdF1cQuv_Joo9m5Fa80dKsCaA/Doral.png?psid=1

9. *Beach Week in a 2-Bedroom Penthouse at Ko Olina Hawaii *- https://public.bay.livefilestore.co...16xYh4S-B0IyMJTxGxXvOLQqw/Ko Olina.png?psid=1

10.* Spring Break in Maui at the Ocean Club Oceanfront 2-Bedroom Villa March 2013* - https://public.bay.livefilestore.co...2Xjtb8TNNMHiWVTvpwCW7rWkuhPSQ/Maui.png?psid=1

No Line, No waiting for 13 months, No calling at 8:59am.  Wow!


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## dioxide45

SueDonJ said:


> ********
> Generally, enrollment in the DC makes the least amount of sense for owners of a single Week who do not routinely pay more than $165 annually in per/transaction Marriott and II fees, i.e. owners who use their Weeks at home resorts in season.  It makes the most sense for owners of multi-Weeks who routinely pay annual fees in excess of $199, i.e. those who lock-off and/or exchange on a regular basis.  For some, the flexible usage options - less-than-7-days DC Points stays, non-weekend check-in dates, the ability to bank/borrow Points to different Use Years, etc. - are major factors in favor of DC enrollment.  Certainly, some Weeks have been valued much higher than others by Marriott and the high Points allotments of those Weeks is another major factor.



I think a good way to determine if enrolling for fee savings is a good option for an owners is to do this; review your last three usage year travel, exchange and use patterns. You can look at the last two years and the current or even next year if you have those already planned.

*Determine the following:*
How many fees did you pay to Marriott and II that would now be covered under the single consolidated fee? Add all those fees together and multiply it by 2, then subtract either $990 (Standard Owner) or $1194 (Premier or Premier Plus Owner) from that number (these are the DC annual fees multiplied by six years). Five or sic years is a good time frame to use to determine a payback on the enrollment fee, though for simplicity I have used six years in this scenario. Then subtract your enrollment fee. 

If your result is close to greater than $0, then you might want to consider enrolling for the fee savings alone. If your amount is less than $0, then you need to determine if the flexibility is worth the extra costs of enrollment and annual fees.

Here are some examples:
*Example 1*
Single week non lock off owner with only a single Marriott week purchased from Marriott.
Year 1: Home Resort stay - $0
Year 1: II Membership - $89
Year 2: Exchange through II - $119
Year 2: II Membership - $89
Year 3: Home resort stay - $0
Year 3: II Membership - $89 

Total
$89+$119+$89+$89=$386
($386*2)-$990-$595=-$813

So you will see that you are actually paying $813 more over six years simply by enrolling. Enrolling is probably not a good option unless you determine that the $813 is worth the the added usage options.


*Example 2*
Two week owner both lock offs purchased externally that trades through II exclusively, standard owner.

Year 1: Lockoff - $80
Year 1: Lockoff - $80
Year 1: II Membership - $89
Year 1: Exchange through II - $119
Year 1: Exchange through II - $119
Year 1: Exchange through II - $119
Year 1: Exchange through II - $119
Year 2: Lockoff - $80
Year 2: Lockoff - $80
Year 2: II Membership - $89
Year 2: Exchange through II - $119
Year 2: Exchange through II - $119
Year 2: Exchange through II - $119
Year 2: Exchange through II - $119
Year 3: Lockoff - $80
Year 3: Lockoff - $80
Year 3: II Membership - $89
Year 3: Exchange through II - $119
Year 3: Exchange through II - $119
Year 3: Exchange through II - $119
Year 3: Exchange through II - $119

Total
($80+$80+$89+$119+$119+$119+$119)+($80+$80+$89+$119+$119+$119+$119)+($80+$80+$89+$119+$119+$119+$119)=$2,175
($2,175*2)-$990-$1,995=$1,365

So you will see that you are saving $1,365 over six years by enrolling. Enrolling is a great option for fee savings alone. You get the added usage options as a bonus. 

Do the math or feel free to post your scenarios.


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## FractionalTraveler

*New DC Benefits just announced...*

Now we can use DC points for stays at Marriott Autograph Collection properties.

https://www.marriottvacationclub.co...-premierplus-2012-apr-cb-learn-more-autograph

Also now use your DC points for Stay and Play Golf packages.

https://www.marriottvacationclub.com/landing/insider/2012-04/premierplus/landing/article4.html


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## dioxide45

FractionalTraveler said:


> Now we can use DC points for stays at Marriott Autograph Collection properties.
> 
> https://www.marriottvacationclub.co...-premierplus-2012-apr-cb-learn-more-autograph



According to the newsletter, this is just a limited time offer.


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## FractionalTraveler

dioxide45 said:


> According to the newsletter, this is just a limited time offer.



Yes, I did see that as interesting (through May of 2013).  What is also interesting is that the myvacationclub.com website also lists access to Luxury Residences (Ritz-Carlton) as a limited time offer as well.

I like the idea of a limited-time offer as it will allow the city explorer benefit in the DC to be refreshed with new options.

http://pcihosting.net/ritz/san fran.html

Anyways, our time on this earth is a limited-time offer so might as well make the best of it!


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## Steve A

FractionalTraveler:

I'm brand new to DC and points. Where did you find the availability listings?


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## Steve A

Never mind. I figured out out for myself. I added three extra days to our trip to Ocean Watch in October for 600 of the 800 points I got for joining the vacation club.


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## SueDonJ

FractionalTraveler said:


> Now we can use DC points for stays at Marriott Autograph Collection properties.
> 
> https://www.marriottvacationclub.co...-premierplus-2012-apr-cb-learn-more-autograph
> 
> Also now use your DC points for Stay and Play Golf packages.
> 
> https://www.marriottvacationclub.com/landing/insider/2012-04/premierplus/landing/article4.html



Nice to see them adding new properties to the DC Collections options - I've had my eye on that Mansion on Forsyth Park in Savannah for a while now, but for MR use.  Maybe somebody at MVW is reading TUG and took my suggestion?  :hysterical:


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## m61376

While Dioxide's calculations are a good dollar and cents approach, I think there are a few other things that should be considered. Personally, my cost to enroll resale weeks that I generally occupy makes the 6 year payback unlikely, and the relatively poor point allocation given to the Caribbean resorts makes converting my weeks to points too costly (for example, looking at FractionalTraveler's post, I would need basically 2 years worth of points to get a single week in Maui, yet I could rent my Aruba week for a similar price that it would cost to rent a week in Maui, so if I opted for the rental route rather than the point route it would be basically a wash while with DC points my cost would be double- not a good deal for me, at least).

That said, there are a few other intangibles that I think warrant consideration and will ultimately be the reason I join:
-Will being in the club ensure that I am not left out in the cold in the future, for whatever changes Marriott may- or may not- elect? Will Marriott potentially internalize all Marriott trades, whether week to week or with points? Will enrolled members using weeks down the road get faster trades than unenrolled legacy members due to some Marriott-II relationship?

-Resale weeks prior to June 20, 2010 have an opportunity to be grandfathered into basically full membership status (with the possible exception as to whether they can equally convert to reward points, which there is some uncertainty over the frequency [discussed above]}. While not an investment in the traditional sense of the word, many of us have substantial sums of money "invested" in our resale weeks, and ensuring future benefits makes sense from both a personal sense of usage and to protect our "investments." Will Marriott close the doors to such resale weeks in the future, and will unenrolled weeks enjoy diminished benefits?

-Premiere and Premiere Plus status owners enjoy an added discount when renting on Marriott.com and enrolled owners can rent points from other owners even if never converting their weeks to points. This can be very useful as family dynamics change and you want an additional unit for family or for friends. Using this for a single week can offset the cost of joining, and I know I am likely to use this option.

I also think that where one owns, even for single week ownerships, enters into the equation, because clearly there were some winners and some losers, relatively speaking, in the point allocations. There are some resorts where owners receive more points  relative to what the unit could reasonably rent for, and thus they would be better off converting to points, and others where the market rate rentals are relatively considerably more than the point allocations, and for those properties renting their week and renting from others (or even from Marriott.com using the owner discount) would be more cost effective. Thus, while a single week Aruba owner, for example, would be better off trading in weeks or renting, a single ski week owner, Maui owner, HH, Ocean Pointe, etc., owner might benefit from trading in points. So it is not just the number of weeks, but where you own that warrants consideration.


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## Quimby4

Great Thread!

I don't know what to do... I am not currently enrolled but am considering it.
Does the DC cover II trade fees?

Here is my situation:


- Resale: Desert Springs Villas II, 2 bedroom, lock off
- DC points:2150
- II Membership: I own another property, non-Marriott so I have to pay II membership  anyways 
-Usage: always trade with II, lock off annually.
- 1 Lock Off Fee annually
- 2 II Trade Fees annually

It doesn't look like using the DC points will benefit me at all.  
I usually trade my lock off for something high end, Maui, Kauai, NCV, etc.

I am not familiar with MR since I am resale, but joining DC now would give me access to MR. Is it worth it to join for MR and saving on lock off and trade fees?

Thank you for any suggestions.


----------



## m61376

Quimby4 said:


> Great Thread!
> 
> I don't know what to do... I am not currently enrolled but am considering it.
> Does the DC cover II trade fees?
> 
> Here is my situation:
> 
> 
> - Resale: Desert Springs Villas II, 2 bedroom, lock off
> - DC points:2150
> - II Membership: I own another property, non-Marriott so I have to pay II membership  anyways
> -Usage: always trade with II, lock off annually.
> - 1 Lock Off Fee annually
> - 2 II Trade Fees annually
> 
> It doesn't look like using the DC points will benefit me at all.
> I usually trade my lock off for something high end, Maui, Kauai, NCV, etc.
> 
> I am not familiar with MR since I am resale, but joining DC now would give me access to MR. Is it worth it to join for MR and saving on lock off and trade fees?
> 
> Thank you for any suggestions.



Since you bought resale it will cost you $1495 to join. If you trade to other Marriotts it will cover the trading fee, so between 2 trade fees a year and the lock-off fee, you'll break even in about 7 years, taking into account the $165 annual club dues.  If you can utilize the 800 bonus points and/or if you will take advantage of owner discounts at Marriott.com or renting points from others those benefits may help offset the up front cost. Otherwise it's a big up front cost that will take a long time to recoup.


----------



## brigechols

Check out the April 2012 MVCI Insider online newsletter. There is a link to a video of happy Marriott multiple week owners explaining why they enrolled in the DC.


----------



## NJDave

Another benefit for some owners who join is that there is a good market to buy and sell (i.e. one time rental use) destination points.  I have found it easy to unload a week, that we didn't need, for more than the annual maintenace fees.  I could not do this if I was going to rent the week in Orlando where we own.  I have also rented points to secure a trade that was otherwise diificult to obtain. 

My point is that even if don't plan to exchange using destination points, it is still good to have the option to buy and sell the points as an enrolled owner.


----------



## pebbles7302

*Great summary*

Thanks for a great summary as I've been avoiding the whole subject. After review I don't think that enrolling would be worth it for me as I currently own both Marriott and Westgate (yes, bought before finding this forum) and I trade through II, so I would have to pay for 2 accounts. Work and family concerns have kept me from traveling much recently, so I tend to store and extend weeks. My trading priority has been places that are close by that I can get to quickly and relax. I have been relatively happy with II. My only concern is that in the future availability will decrease and I will lose trading potential. Still don't think that I would proceed at this time. Would appreciate opinions.  Thanks


----------



## abg1688

I went to a presentation at Manor Club (I picked up 1 week as Getaway from II for $402) this morning, and I'm very confused now.  I own 1 week of 3 br Aruba surf club gold season resale.  The sales person basically told me I should not considering DC enrollment.  Instead, I should purchase 1500 trust points for ~$16000 (annual Maintance fee~$600), so that my Aruba unit can be considered as if it is purchased from Marriott.  He also commented that there will be no more II getaways of Marriott units.  All marriot inventory will go to the trust.  

I'd greatly if I can get some clarification from this forum.  Thanks!


----------



## brigechols

abg1688 said:


> I went to a presentation at Manor Club (I picked up 1 week as Getaway from II for $402) this morning, and I'm very confused now.  I own 1 week of 3 br Aruba surf club gold season resale.  The sales person basically told me I should not considering DC enrollment.  Instead, I should purchase 1500 trust points for ~$16000 (annual Maintance fee~$600), so that my Aruba unit can be considered as if it is purchased from Marriott.  He also commented that there will be no more II getaways of Marriott units.  All marriot inventory will go to the trust.
> 
> I'd greatly if I can get some clarification from this forum.  Thanks!



You do not need to purchase 1500 trust points so that your Aruba unit can be considered as if it was purchased from Marriott. Owners of weeks purchased on the resale market (i.e., not through Marriott) can (1) enroll those weeks and (2) gain the privilege of trading the use of their week(s) for Marriott Rewards points if they enroll, but only if their purchase closed and the deed was recorded by June 20, 2010. Such owners receive the same Trade for Points privileges (some resorts do not offer the MR points option) as developer-purchase owners of the same resort and season.


----------



## m61376

abg1688 said:


> I went to a presentation at Manor Club (I picked up 1 week as Getaway from II for $402) this morning, and I'm very confused now.  I own 1 week of 3 br Aruba surf club gold season resale.  The sales person basically told me I should not considering DC enrollment.  Instead, I should purchase 1500 trust points for ~$16000 (annual Maintance fee~$600), so that my Aruba unit can be considered as if it is purchased from Marriott.  He also commented that there will be no more II getaways of Marriott units.  All marriot inventory will go to the trust.
> 
> I'd greatly if I can get some clarification from this forum.  Thanks!



As posted above, you can enroll your unit for $1495 and it will be on equal footing with other legacy weeks. 

As for the Getaway weeks- it is a way for Marriott to get rid of some excess inventory. The trust is a legal entity, and Marriott simply can't put weeks in and out of the trust at whim. 

Sounds like the sales people at Manor Club (based on another post of similar ilk) need a lesson in ethics.


----------



## SueDonJ

-- bump to first page --

(I hope folks don't consider this to be shameless hawking, but a few new posts that can be answered by this thread have surfaced.  It can't help anybody if it's way down on Page 3.)


----------



## dioxide45

abg1688 said:


> I went to a presentation at Manor Club (I picked up 1 week as Getaway from II for $402) this morning, and I'm very confused now.  I own 1 week of 3 br Aruba surf club gold season resale.  The sales person basically told me I should not considering DC enrollment.  Instead, I should purchase 1500 trust points for ~$16000 (annual Maintance fee~$600), so that my Aruba unit can be considered as if it is purchased from Marriott.  He also commented that there will be no more II getaways of Marriott units.  All marriot inventory will go to the trust.
> 
> I'd greatly if I can get some clarification from this forum.  Thanks!



The sales person is wrong about no getaway weeks. They are using scare tactics to get people to buy. I guess it works or they wouldn't use it.

I would however potentially consider purchasing a week in Aruba. It is a way to possibly get points on the cheap (well, cheaper compared to the current per point price of trust points). Aruba still sells weeks. These weeks since they are direct purchases can be enrolled in DC. They would be legacy points though.

The sales person you spoke to was there to sell you trust points and nothing else. Of course he would say there is no sense just enrolling. He doesn't get a penny for getting you to enroll, he gets paid when you buy trust points.


----------



## SueDonJ

--- bumpety bump bump ---

There are questions floating around out there and in PM's, and this fell off the first page, so ...

*****
A couple of things - 

First, a technical thing -  if you're enrolling, you should probably not wait until the last moment before the deadline to do it.  There have been several deadlines for various things since the DC inception and at every one of them there were IT issues that caused long wait times on the phone and/or a glitchy website.  Spare yourself the headache if you can - I'd do it a week before.

Second, a somewhat personal thing - thank you for the compliments on the first post in this thread.     I appreciate them, but I feel awkward accepting them because without all the thousands of threads on TUG in which we've all contributed our DC-related experience and knowledge, I never would have been able to learn it all or write it out.  This thing has been a group effort all the way.  The credit belongs to all of us.


----------



## TheTimeTraveler

SueDonJ said:


> --- bumpety bump bump ---
> 
> There are questions floating around out there and in PM's, and this fell off the first page, so ...
> 
> *****
> A couple of things -
> 
> First, a technical thing -  if you're enrolling, you should probably not wait until the last moment before the deadline to do it.  There have been several deadlines for various things since the DC inception and at every one of them there were IT issues that caused long wait times on the phone and/or a glitchy website.  Spare yourself the headache if you can - I'd do it a week before.
> 
> Second, a somewhat personal thing - thank you for the compliments on the first post in this thread.     I appreciate them, but I feel awkward accepting them because without all the thousands of threads on TUG in which we've all contributed our DC-related experience and knowledge, I never would have been able to learn it all or write it out.  This thing has been a group effort all the way.  The credit belongs to all of us.







Sue;  Excellent point you make in advising folks not to wait until the last minute in case there are some IT glitches.   




.


----------



## SDMiller

*Eoy Weeks Owners*

We are legacy owners - a total of five weeks - Ko'Olina week #5 is an EOY - when looking on the Marriott website to see what point value we have it totals over 17,000 DC points - will our points be totaled on all our weeks or just the annual and then one of the EOY properties = 13,000 DC points?  

Also - so because we own so many weeks=points we pay more for the annual fee?

Still deciding.......   

SD


----------



## jimf41

SDMiller said:


> We are legacy owners - a total of five weeks - Ko'Olina week #5 is an EOY - when looking on the Marriott website to see what point value we have it totals over 17,000 DC points - will our points be totaled on all our weeks or just the annual and then one of the EOY properties = 13,000 DC points?
> Also - so because we own so many weeks=points we pay more for the amnnual fee?
> 
> Still deciding.......
> 
> SD



They totaled both my EOY weeks to get the final total that they use to figure my Premiere plus level. I would have made it anyway if they only used one years worth of points but when I signed up they said that's the way it was figured.

You'll pay $199 currently with your portfolio.


----------



## NCVillas

We are multi-week NCV owners who have not enrolled, and don't plan to unless the II inventory goes way down.  We have had no issues the times we have requested an exchange.  
I have been wondering if anyone has seen a decrease in II availability for Marriott>Marriott exchanges. I don't check on a regular basis as we only  exchange every even year.


----------



## TheTimeTraveler

NCVillas said:


> We are multi-week NCV owners who have not enrolled, and don't plan to unless the II inventory goes way down.  We have had no issues the times we have requested an exchange.
> I have been wondering if anyone has seen a decrease in II availability for Marriott>Marriott exchanges. I don't check on a regular basis as we only  exchange every even year.






A good reason to enroll now before the price goes up!   Remember, enrolling doesn't force you to abandon II, but it does give you the option if the II inventory does dry up.




.


----------



## SDMiller

*Value of MR points versus DC points*

I am trying to figure out the value of the DC vs MR points.  We are thinking about joining just to get the MR points every year on all our properties.  What is the exchange value?  Is there a reference on the VC site?

Searched this thread but couldn't find any conversation.


SD


----------



## SueDonJ

SDMiller said:


> I am trying to figure out the value of the DC vs MR points.  We are thinking about joining just to get the MR points every year on all our properties.  What is the exchange value?  Is there a reference on the VC site?
> 
> Searched this thread but couldn't find any conversation.
> 
> 
> SD



TUGger GregT has compiled a spreadsheet with various DC-related info including the MRP exchange values.  Click on the "Points Values" PDF link on Greg's site here to search for your Weeks.  If yours are not included then you can call the DC-related Marriott phone line, 800-845-4226, and they'll be able to help you.


----------



## SDMiller

This is just what I needed!  Thanks so much Sue   

SD


----------



## SueDonJ

SDMiller said:


> I am trying to figure out the value of the DC vs MR points.  We are thinking about joining just *to get the MR points every year* on all our properties.  What is the exchange value?  Is there a reference on the VC site?
> 
> Searched this thread but couldn't find any conversation.
> 
> 
> SD



SD, in re-reading your post and assuming what you own was purchased on the external market, I have a word of caution -

The MRP-exchange benefit for enrolled external resales is not an annual benefit.  If a direct-purchased Week is offered an annual MRP-exchange benefit, a similar external resale Week when enrolled will gain the same amount of MRP as the direct-purchase but on an every-other-year basis.  If a direct-purchase Week is offered an every-other-year MRP-exchange benefit, there is some confusion about whether a similar external resale Week when enrolled will gain the same amount of MRP on the same EOY basis or on an every-fourth-year basis.  It's been explained both ways by various Marriott reps and as yet there hasn't been a report on TUG about actual practice.

You can refer to Section 6 in the first post on this thread, as well as Posts 10, 11 and 12.


----------



## SDMiller

Thanks Susan - we are legacy owners - bought from Marriott direct.

SD


----------



## SueDonJ

SDMiller said:


> Thanks Susan - we are legacy owners - bought from Marriott direct.
> 
> SD



In that case you just keep the same MRP exchange benefit that came with your Weeks -  no difference at all.


----------



## dioxide45

One other reason to consider enrollment before the June 14th increase, and this is a long shot and a bit of a hope and gamble. I touched on this in another thread, but want to explain it here.

At some point there will be a flood of resale points out on the open market. Sure MVCI has a ROFR, but they had that on weeks also and seldom used it. There is also the $200 initiation fee per BI and $300 buyers education fee, but you may be able to pick up resale DC points 10+ years down the road fairly cheap, even when you include those pesky fees from MVCI. If you bought them down the road, your legacy weeks would be on the outside looking in while you would have resale points in the trust. You could enroll them if the option is still on the table for the then enrollment fee. My guess is that it would still be at least $2395 at any points going forward.

Like I said, it is a long shot and a gamble, but if you think you ever may be interested in buying resale DC points in the future it may be better to enroll now to save the $1800 on the enrollment fee. For resale owners today, I doubt this would be something that tips the scales in favor of enrollment.


----------



## pwrshift

I still think Marriott is in a losing battle if they don't, at some time, set up a program to let resale buyers who purchased their weeks after the deadline into the plan.  I read somewhere on literature from Marriott that 136,000 weeks have joined...that means some 260,000 weeks are 'outside'.  They wont get them all.  Adding to that is the fact at some time all DC member weeks will probably be sold and new owners automatically put on the outside.  Marriott can't win this IMO with their existing stance.

Even so, I've surprised myself and just joined but still skeptical about it all, even at my PP level. So far I haven't seen any PP deal I'd gift Marriott that many DC points for.  Time will tell.  When I asked my rep if the PP qualification level will increase she said I'd be 'grandfathered' with the PP level forever...I asked her to check that and she came back to say her super told her the levels will go up in January for everyone, but no increase in fees..  They still don't know their own product.

Brian


----------



## Cmore

Brian,
Welcome to the "darkside".  Seriously, I have both enjoyed and learned from your posts over the years. ( I was around a few years ago, went away and came back - mostly busy raising kids )

Kudos Sue, what a terrific summary and similarly I have learned from your posts as well - Thx.

I have really grown to like the DC concept, although agree with others that they could have done away with "skim" and done a more equitable job with point allocations at various resorts and seasons.  That said, it works well for us.  We have been making great use of short stays with the Sun - Thurs point allocations.   I see us likely using a mix of weeks and DC points in the future.


----------



## Quilter

pwrshift said:


> Even so, I've surprised myself and just joined . . .
> Brian



You joined!!!  I had you as a true hold out.   What changed your mind?

Suzzanne


----------



## m61376

pwrshift said:


> I still think Marriott is in a losing battle if they don't, at some time, set up a program to let resale buyers who purchased their weeks after the deadline into the plan.  I read somewhere on literature from Marriott that 136,000 weeks have joined...that means some 260,000 weeks are 'outside'.  They wont get them all.  Adding to that is the fact at some time all DC member weeks will probably be sold and new owners automatically put on the outside.  Marriott can't win this IMO with their existing stance.
> 
> Even so, I've surprised myself and just joined but still skeptical about it all, even at my PP level. So far I haven't seen any PP deal I'd gift Marriott that many DC points for.  Time will tell.  When I asked my rep if the PP qualification level will increase she said I'd be 'grandfathered' with the PP level forever...I asked her to check that and she came back to say her super told her the levels will go up in January for everyone, but no increase in fees..  They still don't know their own product.
> 
> Brian



Couldn't resist the fee savings  ? I am sure for you they will be substantial, and cover your enrollment within the first year. Hopefully you will continue to get the same great trades using your weeks as always, and the DC membership will be great for you, although not in the way that Marriott intended.

I am confused (no surprise there  )- are there 400,000 weeks, or 400,000 owners total? Anyway, if it is weeks, then over a third are enrolled at this point, and I am guessing within the next month the number will approach 40%. Isn't that double the initial projection, which I though was a 20% legacy week enrollment. If that's the case, then it will be many years before the natural turnover will have a dramatic impact, although I agree with you that at some point Marriott is going to have to allow resale weeks in. My guess is they will phase them in akin to Starwood's system of requalification; we're already seeing an inkling of that with Marriott direct purchased resale weeks, which Puck posted about in another thread. 

I think the next hurdle they will have to deal with are resale points, and how they will be treated. I know all the other point programs have some system in place for resales, but I'm not sure of their exact models. 

Although I share your sentiments about the DC program in general, I too will join, basically for two reasons- one, to protect my investment, such as it is; while I don't view it as a gift, I do think Marriott is offering resale owners an opportunity to be a full member of the club, so to speak, and if the program rules change down the road (like Marriott handling Marriott to Marriott week exchanges internally or the Marriott preference in II only applying to enrolled legacy weeks), it is better to be on the inside than the outside looking in. I wonder if at some point Marriott will close the door to all resale weeks (including the ones prior to June, 2010) at least for a period of time before, as you suggest, they ultimately reopen it- which I suspect will only be with buying a boatload of points. Secondly, while I don't envision myself buying points, I can see the benefit to using points on occasion, and they can be a great supplement to ownership; I agree with Greg's posts that the point rental is a big plus of the program, and one that I can foresee using.

Admittedly, I keep on putting off joining though since I really dislike the program. Instead of equalizing the field, so to speak, I think Marriott merely created a new subset of winners and losers. But, like most things in life, it is what it is, and we can only deal with the program as is, since we're unlikely to have any major impact on future machinations. The worst thing we can do is let feelings of perceived inequities interfere with enjoyment of our vacations.


----------



## SueDonJ

pwrshift said:


> ... When I asked my rep if the PP qualification level will increase she said I'd be 'grandfathered' with the PP level forever...I asked her to check that and she came back to say her super told her the levels will go up in January for everyone, but no increase in fees..  They still don't know their own product.
> 
> Brian



A HUGE caution here ...

I would be ecstatic if what your rep said is true, that whatever Member status you hold now will be grandfathered if/when the requirements change.  But that idea is just not supported by the governing docs AT ALL.  The docs say in several places, in no uncertain terms, that DC status is subject to change because it is based on a percentage of the aggregate total of DC Points in the program.  They've even written provisions that stipulate what happens if/when the numbers supporting status levels change and you no longer have enough points to hold your status.  (You retain the current status only through the end of the Use Year following the year in which the requirements are changed.)

Like I said, ecstatic.  It truly would be a gift if Marriott were to grandfather status if/when requirements change.  But NOTHING supports it - the docs actually refute it, and there's been no official statement from Marriott that the docs have been revised.

Consider the source of this "grandfathering" talk - in both cases reported to TUG it's come from the VOA's manning the front line phones.  We all know they've been wrong before.     PLEASE don't base your decision on whether to enroll or not on an expectation that your Member status at enrollment will never change.  All the signs say differently.  Maybe, highly doubtful but maybe, there's a slim outside chance that Marriott will surprise us and give us something for nothing despite warning us that they'll be more likely to take something away ... but I wouldn't count on it.  I'll be genuinely shocked if it happens.


----------



## EKniager

Okay, I read Sue's excellent overview and I am still... in limbo.  We own two weeks:  Platinum Aruba Surf Club (bought direct from Marriott) and Harbour Point (resale in 2011).  If I understand this correctly, if we want to exchange the HHI week we must continue being a member of II or RCI.  No problem, we have 3 years remaining on a five year membership.  So... if we pay the $595 and the annual $165 and join before the deadline we will gain an additional exchange functionality, i.e., by having legacy points.  On a cost basis, the $165 will be offset by the savings on the old lockoff and exchange fees ($80+$129+$129) on years when we lockoff and exchange one or both halves.  Assuming that net-nets out as a push over time, essentially we are paying $595 for added flexibility, right?

Is the $595 our only downside?


----------



## windje2000

pwrshift said:


> I still think Marriott is in a losing battle if they don't, at some time, set up a program to let resale buyers who purchased their weeks after the deadline into the plan.  I read somewhere on literature from Marriott that 136,000 weeks have joined...that means some 260,000 weeks are 'outside'.  They wont get them all.  Adding to that is the fact at some time all DC member weeks will probably be sold and new owners automatically put on the outside.  Marriott can't win this IMO with their existing stance.
> 
> Even so, I've surprised myself and just joined but still skeptical about it all, even at my PP level. So far I haven't seen any PP deal I'd gift Marriott that many DC points for.  Time will tell.  When I asked my rep if the PP qualification level will increase she said I'd be 'grandfathered' with the PP level forever...I asked her to check that and she came back to say her super told her the levels will go up in January for everyone, but no increase in fees..  They still don't know their own product.
> 
> Brian



Hi Brian 

Will VAC eventually let resales in?  Sure, for a price.  If they don't let resales join, the customer population of DClub is an actuarially estimable wasting asset.  That's not consistent with the whole point of creating the exchange system.  Why would they bother, if they let the membership base wither away.  

All VAC actions point to eventually controlling the occupancy exchange and extracting fees for that service.  

My guess is that the weeks population of DClub is probably skewed to higher point value more attractive weeks.  Those weeks that remain unenrolled are probably the opposite.

Those less attractive weeks will remain readily available in II.  So eventually you will have a choice between 'first class' and 'coach' exchange systems.  There's fees for first class.  Discounted seats available until June 14.


----------



## tjkahn

EKniager said:


> Okay, I read Sue's excellent overview and I am still... in limbo.  We own two weeks:  Platinum Aruba Surf Club (bought direct from Marriott) and Harbour Point (resale in 2011).  If I understand this correctly, if we want to exchange the HHI week we must continue being a member of II or RCI.  No problem, we have 3 years remaining on a five year membership.  So... if we pay the $595 and the annual $165 and join before the deadline we will gain an additional exchange functionality, i.e., by having legacy points.  On a cost basis, the $165 will be offset by the savings on the old lockoff and exchange fees ($80+$129+$129) on years when we lockoff and exchange one or both halves.  Assuming that net-nets out as a push over time, essentially we are paying $595 for added flexibility, right?
> 
> Is the $595 our only downside?



I think whatever you think of the program, if you have a lock-off and trade it's a no-brainer.  The 800 bonus points alone mean you're almost at break even right off the bat.  I've been doing some searching for the last couple of days with the 800 points - I have yet to find a resort or season that isn't available (granted at high season you're not getting more than a day or two), but with an already active market for one-time use rental points at ~$.50 each, the 800 points should be easy to use.  Or you could of course use the points to extend a week.  I was also surprised to learn that the $165 is not collected until the end of this year too, so in some respects the first 8 months or so are free.


----------



## EKniager

tjkahn said:


> I think whatever you think of the program, if you have a lock-off and trade it's a no-brainer.  The 800 bonus points alone mean you're almost at break even right off the bat.  I've been doing some searching for the last couple of days with the 800 points - I have yet to find a resort or season that isn't available (granted at high season you're not getting more than a day or two), but with an already active market for one-time use rental points at ~$.50 each, the 800 points should be easy to use.  Or you could of course use the points to extend a week.  I was also surprised to learn that the $165 is not collected until the end of this year too, so in some respects the first 8 months or so are free.



Just reviewed it with my wife and I'm not sure that is true.  Because of the low point allocation for Aruba we might just be better off renting the unit in  years when when don't plan on going there.  

Did a couple of what-if scenarios using points and we got less than our usual II weeks exchanges.  And, I am not sure we will use (benefit from) <7 day stays.  Why use 80% of our points for an exchange that our lockoff has secured in the past?


----------



## SueDonJ

EKniager said:


> Just reviewed it with my wife and I'm not sure that is true.  Because of the low point allocation for Aruba we might just be better off renting the unit in  years when when don't plan on going there.
> 
> Did a couple of what-if scenarios using points and we got less than our usual II weeks exchanges.  And, I am not sure we will use (benefit from) <7 day stays.  Why use 80% of our points for an exchange that our lockoff has secured in the past?



I think TUGger tjkahn's point to you isn't that you should convert your enrolled Aruba week and use those DC Points for stays, because you're correct - it's true that the overwhelming majority of Aruba Week allocations are so low that they're simply not conducive to annual conversions to DC Points for use in the DC Exchange system.  I think his (her?  sorry tj) point is that the 800 Bonus Points could offset your $595 enrollment fee depending on how you use them.  If you enroll you will be able to take advantage of an established DC Points rental market, and transfer points from another DC Member if the 800 Points are not enough for a single trip.

But your original thought is still a good one, that there may be some cost-savings for you if you enroll your Aruba Week and continue to use it as you've been doing.  Currently, the fees in each system are such that your $165 annual DC Club Dues would be less than the ($80+$129+$129) annual fees you're paying now to lock-off your unit and exchange both sides.  You will still be able to do those transactions in your new/corporate II account.

For you I'd say that enrollment of that one Week will make sense if you lock-off and exchange it on a fairly often basis, and depending on how often you'll be doing exchanges with your un-enrolled Week.  Sure, like you say for the next three years your RCI/II account (not sure which you have now?) is covered, but what will happen after that?  Will you always keep that separate individual account or will you restrict your un-enrolled Week usage to home resort stays and/or private exchange/rental transactions?  If you let that individual account expire and plan on only doing II exchanges with your Aruba Week, I'd say enroll and don't look back.  But if you want to be able to exchange both Weeks through II/RCI, you have some serious math to do to figure out what would make the DC enrollment of only one Week an attractive enough option.


----------



## m61376

EKniager said:


> Just reviewed it with my wife and I'm not sure that is true.  Because of the low point allocation for Aruba we might just be better off renting the unit in  years when when don't plan on going there.
> 
> Did a couple of what-if scenarios using points and we got less than our usual II weeks exchanges.  And, I am not sure we will use (benefit from) <7 day stays.  Why use 80% of our points for an exchange that our lockoff has secured in the past?



I think most owners in Aruba and at some of the other resorts where the allocations were lower than expected (based on Marriott's objective valuation as reflected in the rental rates Marriott itself charges, and based on the timeshare rental market) are less likely to exchange for points unless they simply want the convenience and don't want to be bothered, and are willing to accept that the flexibility comes at a significant price. 

That said, while I agree that exchanging for points is, in most cases, a waste for you, if you lock-off/exchange enough to cover your annual $165 fee, the ability to rent points from others may (or may not) be something worth considering, and may present a good value for you.

I think direct purchasers have less of an issue with "what ifs" down the road, since their enrollment will always be welcome, although at a significantly higher price. I am not sure if the door will always be open for pre-6/10 resale weeks.


----------



## tjkahn

SueDonJ said:


> I think his (her?  sorry tj) point is that the 800 Bonus Points could offset your $595 enrollment fee depending on how you use them.



His (Todd)  

I'm not diminishing the importance of $595 to anyone - I certainly didn't enjoy parting with it.  But:

- No lockoff fees
- No II membership fee
- No internal exchange fee

Means it's PROBABLE a lock-off owner will break even at some point.  Then add in:

- Insurance (what IF II exchanges really do dry up)
- An already easy to find market (thanks to TUG) to rent points if your unit is short
- 800 "free" points, which have a value of ~$400 on the rental market...I'm sure I will use mine for a weekend getaway or an extension of a trip next year.  Worst comes to worse, I'll rent them and recoup something, so I'm not sure $595 is the true net cost of enrollment, because those 800 points are worth SOMETHING.

It became an easy choice for someone who owns a developer purchased lock-off unit.  Granted, I'm fortunate that my unit was allocated a pretty fair amount of DC points, but frankly even if I never trade for DC points, I feel like enrolling was the only sensible choice.


----------



## SueDonJ

SueDonJ said:


> ... I think his (her?  sorry tj) point is that the 800 Bonus Points could offset ...





tjkahn said:


> His (Todd)  ...



Hi Todd, nicetomeetcha.


----------



## dioxide45

tjkahn said:


> His (Todd)800 "free" points, which have a value of ~$400 on the rental market...I'm sure I will use mine for a weekend getaway or an extension of a trip next year.  Worst comes to worse, I'll rent them and recoup something, so I'm not sure $595 is the true net cost of enrollment, because those 800 points are worth SOMETHING.



I am having a very hard time attaching a cash value to those 800 PlusPoints we got from enrollment. We were able to add two nights at Marco Island at the end of the month. Those two nights cost ~$650 on Marriott.com. However, I would never pay $650 to stay there for two nights. There are only two of us but we have a 2BR unit plus if I needed the two and had to pay cash I would be staying at the Courtyard or Fairfield in off of I75 for two nights or just paying cash for two extra nights in Orlando instead.

So while they have a value of $650 on Marriott.com, their real value is hard to determine. For some, they may cost them money because they plan a vacation to use them along with a timeshare stay and have the extra costs of another vacation.:hysterical:


----------



## MOXJO7282

I'm probably enrolling my qualifying weeks even though I currently never trade or lock-off just for the potential to do it in the future and to avoid the price increase. 

I figure the free 800 points has a value that offsets the cost somewhat.


----------



## tjkahn

dioxide45 said:


> So while they have a value of $650 on Marriott.com, their real value is hard to determine. For some, they may cost them money because they plan a vacation to use them along with a timeshare stay and have the extra costs of another vacation.:hysterical:



Very true, I may take a weekend away that I wouldn't have otherwise taken, and that might cost me plane tickets, gas, etc.  From what I can see so far, there is a ton of availability for DC points reservations for the next 10 months.

I understand your point, particularly that you wouldn't pay $650 for two nights in Orlando.  But it would save you the two nights at the Fairfield (~$200?), or, like I said, if the going rate for point rentals is $.50/point, even if you took $.40, and rented/sold them for $320, your still down to $275 net cost.  So even if you claim the 800 points are something you don't need, there is a way to monetize their value and offset the $595.

If your enrollment costs are more than $595, it's another discussion and there is a lot more variability.  if today was June 15, I would not pay $2,495.  My guess is if they have trouble getting enough enrolled weeks, there will be special offers again to join, but to be certain I think enrolling before June 14 is a wise decision.


----------



## vail

tjkahn said:


> Very true, I may take a weekend away that I wouldn't have otherwise taken, and that might cost me plane tickets, gas, etc.  From what I can see so far, there is a ton of availability for DC points reservations for the next 10 months.
> 
> I understand your point, particularly that you wouldn't pay $650 for two nights in Orlando.  But it would save you the two nights at the Fairfield (~$200?), or, like I said, if the going rate for point rentals is $.50/point, even if you took $.40, and rented/sold them for $320, your still down to $275 net cost.  So even if you claim the 800 points are something you don't need, there is a way to monetize their value and offset the $595.
> 
> If your enrollment costs are more than $595, it's another discussion and there is a lot more variability.  if today was June 15, I would not pay $2,495.  My guess is if they have trouble getting enough enrolled weeks, there will be special offers again to join, but to be certain I think enrolling before June 14 is a wise decision.




I joined.
It was a no brainer--here is my scenario and logic.
I can rent out my week for $1400 next year.
I receive 800 points for joining so I can use points to book that same week and I only need 1100 additional points.
I can rent those points for $550 or so so my total is that plus the $595 to join which is less than the $1400 I receive and will still have the use of that week and be a memeber of the DC.
Am I missing something?


----------



## dioxide45

vail said:


> I joined.
> It was a no brainer--here is my scenario and logic.
> I can rent out my week for $1400 next year.
> I receive 800 points for joining so I can use points to book that same week and I only need 1100 additional points.
> I can rent those points for $550 or so so my total is that plus the $595 to join which is less than the $1400 I receive and will still have the use of that week and be a memeber of the DC.
> Am I missing something?



I think the only way you can get $550 in renting the PlusPoints is if you put them up for rent right now. I have seen a few listings on GregTs rental site from people trying to unload soon to be expiring PlusPoints, I didn't see any takers on those. You need to give people a long travel period to look at.


----------



## EKniager

SueDonJ said:


> But if you want to be able to exchange both Weeks through II/RCI, you have some serious math to do to figure out what would make the DC enrollment of only one Week an attractive enough option.



I think it is probably safe to assume we will split most years and exchange at least one of the halves.  Regardless of what we do with the HHI resale week, we probably should enroll the Aruba week.  Not sure we will ever need or want to trade for points but the $595 minus the 800 gift points is not as ugly as it could be.  

My wife just wants me to guarantee her that we will continue to be able to trade the unit as a whole or split units as we always have.


----------



## vail

dioxide45 said:


> I think the only way you can get $550 in renting the PlusPoints is if you put them up for rent right now. I have seen a few listings on GregTs rental site from people trying to unload soon to be expiring PlusPoints, I didn't see any takers on those. You need to give people a long travel period to look at.



I am not selling the points--I am purchasing them to use to rent the week I want.
Since I receive 800 points for enrolling, I am short 1100 points to choose the same week I will rent to someone else.
From what you write it should be easy to acquire those 1100 points for $550.
So in fact I end up paying the $595 to join and $550 for the points that I am short and the total cost is $1145.
This means after I rent my unit out I am $255 to the plus and I get to join DC.
If I do not join and I just use my unit--I do not receive the $255 nor enrollment in the DC.
This shows that some units the points are just too low.


----------



## dioxide45

EKniager said:


> My wife just wants me to guarantee her that we will continue to be able to trade the unit as a whole or split units as we always have.



This is as guaranteed after enrollment as much as it was before enrollment. There is never a guaranty with trading. Being enrolled or not, doesn't change anything here. You retain the same usage rights you had before, you just add the DC option and potentially save on fees.


----------



## EKniager

dioxide45 said:


> This is as guaranteed after enrollment as much as it was before enrollment. There is never a guaranty with trading. Being enrolled or not, doesn't change anything here. You retain the same usage rights you had before, you just add the DC option and potentially save on fees.



Thanks.  

Sorry, I should have been more clear.  LOL, I meant the ability to utilize the same old exchange process, not necessarily our historical success rate.  She understands that it's always dependent on the dynamics of the exchange market.


----------



## SueDonJ

EKniager said:


> Thanks.
> 
> Sorry, I should have been more clear.  LOL, I meant the ability to utilize the same old exchange process, not necessarily our historical success rate.  She understands that it's always dependent on the dynamics of the exchange market.



Whatever transactions you are able to do now in your individual II account, you will be able to do the exact same things in your new corporate account.  Exchanges, AC's, XYZ's, phantom searches, Getaways, special offers, etc ...

The only differences are 1) that your new II account will have a different account number so that when you sign in to the website you will be asked to choose which account you want to use at the time; and 2) you don't pay annual or exchange fees in the new account.

Honestly.  As crazy as it sounds, it's all true.     Those of us who have enrolled were able to make the comparisons between our two accounts while the old was still open, and not one person reported that their accounts were showing differences.


----------



## EKniager

I surrendered. 

It appears to be the financially prudent thing to do.  (I think we also, get 5x MR points on the $595 as an additional offset to the expense.)

Does a 10 day processing period sound right?  Now that the decision has been made, I am looking forward to exploring with this new capability.


----------



## Old Hickory

SueDonJ said:


> Whatever transactions you are able to do now in your individual II account, you will be able to do the exact same things in your new corporate account.  Exchanges, AC's, XYZ's, phantom searches, Getaways, special offers, etc ...
> 
> The only differences are 1) that your new II account will have a different account number so that when you sign in to the website you will be asked to choose which account you want to use at the time; and 2) you don't pay annual or exchange fees in the new account.



But do you pay AC and XYZ fees?  What about Getaways?


----------



## tjkahn

EKniager said:


> I surrendered.
> 
> It appears to be the financially prudent thing to do.  (I think we also, get 5x MR points on the $595 as an additional offset to the expense.)
> 
> Does a 10 day processing period sound right?  Now that the decision has been made, I am looking forward to exploring with this new capability.



1) you go get 5 points/dollar witht the black Marriott card, so there's 2,975 MR points

2) It took about a week for my points to show up.  They showed me as a member right away, and I locked off my unit day 2 without any fees, but I didn't have the 800 points for about 5 business days.

3) I still don't have an II account (I let my old account expire knowing I'd be signing up for DC).   Supposedly that takes 30 days.  I can still do phantom searches using my old II account, even though it's expired.


----------



## tjkahn

Old Hickory said:


> But do you pay AC and XYZ fees?  What about Getaways?



You pay for all of that as before.  You also pay for non-marriott exchanges.  But marriott to marriott are "free."


----------



## David10225

*Two Questions*

Thank you for the information.  I was considering enrolling my one lonely Barony Beach week.  I have two questions.

I currently have my normal summer reserved (July 2012).  If I join now, can I turn in that week into points right away?  The reason I'm asking is that my son is getting married in September and I would like to give him a week vacation for his honeymoon in September.  I figure with the points, I would have a lot of flexibility,

Question two - is it permissible or easy to use points to reserve a room in the name of someone else (like my son?)

Thanks!


----------



## dioxide45

David10225 said:


> Thank you for the information.  I was considering enrolling my one lonely Barony Beach week.  I have two questions.
> 
> I currently have my normal summer reserved (July 2012).  If I join now, can I turn in that week into points right away?  The reason I'm asking is that my son is getting married in September and I would like to give him a week vacation for his honeymoon in September.  I figure with the points, I would have a lot of flexibility,
> 
> Question two - is it permissible or easy to use points to reserve a room in the name of someone else (like my son?)
> 
> Thanks!



No, you won't be able to convert your 2012 week to points. You had to have converted 2012 weeks to points by September 30, 2011. You may be able to get them to make an exception when enrolling. They permitted this in the first year of DC, but may not do it now.

You can make a reservation with points and add another person's name (like your son's).


----------



## EKniager

dioxide45 said:


> You can make a reservation with points and add another person's name (like your son's).



Actually, you can do this with weeks ownership and exchange as well.


----------



## Quilter

David10225 said:


> Thank you for the information.  I was considering enrolling my one lonely Barony Beach week.  I have two questions.
> 
> I currently have my normal summer reserved (July 2012).  If I join now, can I turn in that week into points right away?  The reason I'm asking is that my son is getting married in September and I would like to give him a week vacation for his honeymoon in September.  I figure with the points, I would have a lot of flexibility,
> 
> Question two - is it permissible or easy to use points to reserve a room in the name of someone else (like my son?)
> 
> Thanks!



You could rent your summer week to recover costs and then rent points from another DC member for your son's honeymoon.  The simplest thing would be to make the reservation yourself but with lots of people getting 800 purchase points there might be plenty of opportunity for you to get others to make a reservation for you and you pay them for the points.   If you did end up with 2 reservation numbers at the same resort I would call the GM and ask if they could please leave you (your son) in the same room for both reservations.

We weren't able to use our 800 points and Marriott made me a better deal in exchange for them.   It's was all based on a mix-up of info from one of their executives when the product was rolled out so they made good on the misinformation.


----------



## ilene13

deleting an error was made


----------



## dioxide45

EKniager said:


> Actually, you can do this with weeks ownership and exchange as well.



Exactly, nothing changes with DC enrollment.


----------



## CJ2etc

Quick question as we are new to the game and I am trying to educate myself as quickly as possible.  We own a 3 bdrm platinum lock off at Grand Vista and lock it off and trade each piece every year, so I assume this would be a no brainer for us.  Our last few and next few vacations have been skiing during prime season and we haven't been able to use our Marriott timeshare to get lodging or exchange into these prime weeks so we may need to buy some time before we get back to destinations that work better with our timeshare and trading.  My question is how long are the points given as incentive and if you exchange for points as well good for?  I see reference to a year on the incentive points but am not sure if it is based on the closing date or a calendar year or what and haven't seen anything on the dates related to exchange points before they expire.  One thing we like about II is that the window they give you for exchange after you deposit if fairly large.

Thanks
Craig


----------



## tjkahn

CJ2etc said:


> Quick question as we are new to the game and I am trying to educate myself as quickly as possible.  We own a 3 bdrm platinum lock off at Grand Vista and lock it off and trade each piece every year, so I assume this would be a no brainer for us.  Our last few and next few vacations have been skiing during prime season and we haven't been able to use our Marriott timeshare to get lodging or exchange into these prime weeks so we may need to buy some time before we get back to destinations that work better with our timeshare and trading.  My question is how long are the points given as incentive and if you exchange for points as well good for?  I see reference to a year on the incentive points but am not sure if it is based on the closing date or a calendar year or what and haven't seen anything on the dates related to exchange points before they expire.  One thing we like about II is that the window they give you for exchange after you deposit if fairly large.
> 
> Thanks
> Craig



The incentive points are good for a year from your enrollment date. As far as weeks converted to points, I think they are good until the end of the calendar year in which you relinquished your unit (in other words, if you traded your 2013 week for points, the points are good from your exchange date to 12/31/13.  I personally wouldn't trade for DC points unless I had a place picked out and knew it was available. Otherwise II still seems like a better bet.  But my knowledge is quite limited at the moment.


----------



## CJ2etc

tjkahn
Thanks for the clarification.  That helps with my education.  I think we are ready to enroll.  Not thrilled with paying more money but I think we will recoup our investment fairly quickly the way we use it.  Everything we do results in a fee of some type.


----------



## NJMOM2

tjkahn said:


> The incentive points are good for a year from your enrollment date. As far as weeks converted to points, I think they are good until the end of the calendar year in which you relinquished your unit (in other words, if you traded your 2013 week for points, the points are good from your exchange date to 12/31/13.  I personally wouldn't trade for DC points unless I had a place picked out and knows it was available. Otherwise II still seems like a better bet.  But my knowledge is quite limited at the moment.



Those 2013 points can be banked to 12/31/14.  The deadline to bank 2013 points would be 6/30/13.  You can also borrow points up to 2 years in advance of use year.


----------



## jimf41

David10225 said:


> Thank you for the information.  I was considering enrolling my one lonely Barony Beach week.  I have two questions.
> 
> I currently have my normal summer reserved (July 2012).  If I join now, can I turn in that week into points right away?  The reason I'm asking is that my son is getting married in September and I would like to give him a week vacation for his honeymoon in September.  I figure with the points, I would have a lot of flexibility,
> 
> Thanks!



If you join the easiest way to do this is to keep your July 2012 week and convert your 2013 week to points. Let your son use the 800 point incentive plus any points he needs from converting your 2013 to make his honeymoon plans. If you have points left over take a two or three day trip somewhere or just rent what you need for a full week from Greg T's website.


----------



## tjkahn

NJMOM2 said:


> Those 2013 points can be banked to 12/31/14.  The deadline to bank 2013 points would be 9/30/13.  You can also borrow points up to 2 years in advance of use year.



Some clarification:

I think you have a typo in your date - the deadline to bank 2013 points for usage in 2014 would be 6/30/2013 (assuming you are a weeks owner enrolled in DC, in which case your usage year begins January 1).

Link attached, but the summary:

- Must elect to trade for DC points by Sept. 30 prior to your usage year (so to trade for DC points for 2013 usage, you must do so by Sept. 30, 2012)

- If you want to bank the 2013 points for 2014 use, you must do so 6 months before the end of the usage year the points were originally for.  So 2013 points must be banked by June 30, 2013 to use them in 2014.

- The deadline to trade for MR points is still Dec. 31 (no change).

https://www.my-vacationclub.com/common/vc/en-us/pdfs/enrollment_legal_docs/important_dates.pdf


----------



## NJMOM2

tjkahn said:


> Some clarification:
> 
> I think you have a typo in your date - the deadline to bank 2013 points for usage in 2014 would be 6/30/2013 (assuming you are a weeks owner enrolled in DC, in which case your usage year begins January 1).
> 
> Link attached, but the summary:
> 
> - Must elect to trade for DC points by Sept. 30 prior to your usage year (so to trade for DC points for 2013 usage, you must do so by Sept. 30, 2012)
> 
> - If you want to bank the 2013 points for 2014 use, you must do so 6 months before the end of the usage year the points were originally for.  So 2013 points must be banked by June 30, 2013 to use them in 2014.
> 
> - The deadline to trade for MR points is still Dec. 31 (no change).
> 
> https://www.my-vacationclub.com/common/vc/en-us/pdfs/enrollment_legal_docs/important_dates.pdf



Your right - so many dated to remember I got them mixed up.  I have them all marked on my calendar and planning spread sheet.  I modified the post with the correct date.  Thanks for pointing it out.


----------



## John Cerra

*Considering enrolling...looking for advice*

Hi everyone, 

Some recent experiences trying to trade in II with long lead times has made me wonder about how strong the II option is.  I saw the thread where people showed their trades, but since II does not seem to publicize trades, it is all guesswork.

We have one week, Fairway Villas, and are always able to book a prime summer week a year out.  The place is always full or nearly full in summer and seems in demand.  We bought the week resale in 2004 and have occasionally traded it in II, but I have never been blown away by a trade...Orlando and Phoenix in June/July does not seem like it's too hard.

From December to March, we tried to trade our week for a week in Newport and never got it done.  A change in plans and we tried Beachplace in the July 4 week, but had no luck.  I am renting the week in Beachplace for cash since we need to be there and now have a 7/29 week in Fairway Villas I am looking to get rid of.  One alternative is to put it in II,a and when the 13 month window opens for summer 2013, try to get Newport.  A second alternative is to rent the week.

The this deadline appears.  I appreciate you TUG members bringing to my attention, since Marriott did not, btw.  I am again rethinking joining.  I am not happy putting more money in, since it seems Marriott's business plan is to continually depreciate what ever they have sold you.  But the number of points that FV generates doesn't seem to do much in trade.  Do I understand that I can rent points for one year from other owners?

What about the three year II renewal I just paid?  Am I out that money?
I think I get 1 time 800 points.  I have seen estimates of that being worth $400 to $500....seem right?  I am committing to paying $165 a year instead of II fees, but would pay no exchange fees?

So how good is the one time point market rental?

Would you do it?

Thanks.

John


----------



## EKniager

John Cerra said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> Some recent experiences trying to trade in II with long lead times has made me wonder about how strong the II option is.  I saw the thread where people showed their trades, but since II does not seem to publicize trades, it is all guesswork.
> 
> We have one week, Fairway Villas, and are always able to book a prime summer week a year out.  The place is always full or nearly full in summer and seems in demand.  We bought the week resale in 2004 and have occasionally traded it in II, but I have never been blown away by a trade...Orlando and Phoenix in June/July does not seem like it's too hard.
> 
> From December to March, we tried to trade our week for a week in Newport and never got it done.  A change in plans and we tried Beachplace in the July 4 week, but had no luck.  I am renting the week in Beachplace for cash since we need to be there and now have a 7/29 week in Fairway Villas I am looking to get rid of.  One alternative is to put it in II,a and when the 13 month window opens for summer 2013, try to get Newport.  A second alternative is to rent the week.
> 
> The this deadline appears.  I appreciate you TUG members bringing to my attention, since Marriott did not, btw.  I am again rethinking joining.  I am not happy putting more money in, since it seems Marriott's business plan is to continually depreciate what ever they have sold you.  But the number of points that FV generates doesn't seem to do much in trade.  Do I understand that I can rent points for one year from other owners?
> 
> What about the three year II renewal I just paid?  Am I out that money?
> I think I get 1 time 800 points.  I have seen estimates of that being worth $400 to $500....seem right?  I am committing to paying $165 a year instead of II fees, but would pay no exchange fees?
> 
> So how good is the one time point market rental?
> 
> Would you do it?
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> John



Not sure you gave us enough info.  Do you own a platinum week?  When you attempted the exchange was your unit reserved for a high demand summer week?  

I like Fairway Villas and actually bought our Aruba week after attending a sales pitch there, however... over the last 18 months I have watched resales there go for practically nothing.  That translates to me that it is not a high demand destination and thus, not necessarily a great trader.  Certainly, anything less than platinum would have marginal trading power.  

The new point system gives you added flexibility to rent one night at a time.  Without knowing your exact point allocation it would be hard to comment on the appropriateness of those points relative to the rental market, but, in general, the skim that Marriott takes usually makes trading for a full week better with II than in the new system.

Your II membership is spent.  That money ain't coming back so for the next 3 years you won't save money or break even on the new annual $165 fee, even if you trade every year.  (I don't think you have lockoffs up there, right?)  After that, your annual fee in the point system will be offset by your free Marriott to Marriott trades and free II membership ($165 vs. $129+$75).

I joined this week but we have a lockoff that costs us $80 per year and trade at least half of the unit, another $129.  Sometimes we trade both halves so the $165 represents a big savings for us even if we never trade the week in for the new points.


----------



## tjkahn

EKniager said:


> Your II membership is spent.  That money ain't coming back so for the next 3 years you won't save money or break even on the new annual $165 fee, even if you trade every year.  (I don't think you have lockoffs up there, right?)  After that, your annual fee in the point system will be offset by your free Marriott to Marriott trades and free II membership ($165 vs. $129+$75).



I've seen a number of posts that indicate if you are insistent, you will get a pro-rata refund of your II dues.  Ask to speak to a supervisor.  At a minimum, many folks have said they'll try to appease you with AC's.


----------



## John Cerra

EKniager said:


> Not sure you gave us enough info.  Do you own a platinum week?  When you attempted the exchange was your unit reserved for a high demand summer week?
> 
> I like Fairway Villas and actually bought our Aruba week after attending a sales pitch there, however... over the last 18 months I have watched resales there go for practically nothing.  That translates to me that it is not a high demand destination and thus, not necessarily a great trader.  Certainly, anything less than platinum would have marginal trading power.
> 
> The new point system gives you added flexibility to rent one night at a time.  Without knowing your exact point allocation it would be hard to comment on the appropriateness of those points relative to the rental market, but, in general, the skim that Marriott takes usually makes trading for a full week better with II than in the new system.
> 
> 
> 
> Your II membership is spent.  That money ain't coming back so for the next 3 years you won't save money or break even on the new annual $165 fee, even if you trade every year.  (I don't think you have lockoffs up there, right?)  After that, your annual fee in the point system will be offset by your free Marriott to Marriott trades and free II membership ($165 vs. $129+$75).
> 
> I joined this week but we have a lockoff that costs us $80 per year and trade at least half of the unit, another $129.  Sometimes we trade both halves so the $165 represents a big savings for us even if we never trade the week in for the new points.



Yes, we own a platinum week.  Your response got me thinking, and I think I realized why I am lukewarm about this.

Consider the week first.  When we go in July or August, we see the facility fully booked.  When we have tried to rent a week from Marriott, none are available.  Look in the classifieds, not many available, look in Craigslist or Redbook, again, not many.  Summer weeks are used by the owners, who probably live within driving distance (say North NJ) and what ever is left Marriott rents to people looking for a late decision opportunity to get a week on the "Jersey Shore."  But if you have a week somewhere else, you aren't likely to trade it...it's not on the beach, it's a drive to the casinos, although great golf is at your door.  So my conclusion...economically it is a great renter but not a great trader.

Now consider the value of the unit...you can buy a platinum resale for $7500.  Joining the DC club is $1500, you do it to protect your the value of week.  But at FV, you don't get enough points to make it worthwhile.  You get 2075 points, but if you try to book the week we have this summer, it costs 2725.  Yes I know I can still book the week like I used to, but I just get killed on the trading value.  I think if Marriott gave me 2725,or that minus a reasonable skim, this would make sense.  But the $1500 is just then opener, clearly I have to buy points (Newport in the same week is 4725 points) to do anything.  The act of buying points pretty much means that I accept and lock in the 2075 point level, instead of 2725 minus a skim. My conclusion  is that Marriott WANTS the summer weeks at FV to rent, and doesn't want people to trade in to the place.

It seems to make more sense to rent the week than anything, doesn't it?


----------



## aka Julie

John Cerra said:


> Now consider the value of the unit...you can buy a platinum resale for $7500



I think your valuation of your platinum week is wishful thinking, although I realize you didn't say you were going to sell.  

The last platinum Fairway Villas that sold on Ebay went for $2036 and ended on May 3 (had 15 bids).  Here's the listing:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2BR-MARRIOT...30779437324?pt=Timeshares&hash=item35bb86c10c


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## thinze3

I know this has been asked before, but do your current reservations carry over and npt get cancelled when you enroll.  I am all but certain they remain in place.

I want to wait until the last day so that my bonus points will be good through early June 2013.  My 2013 reservations will already made and I do not want to lose them.


----------



## pipet

John Cerra said:


> Orlando and Phoenix in June/July does not seem like it's too hard.



You're right; these weren't hard trades. For future reference, you can get summer desert weeks as inexpensive Getaways.



John Cerra said:


> From December to March, we tried to trade our week for a week in Newport and never got it done.  A change in plans and we tried Beachplace in the July 4 week, but had no luck.  I am renting the week in Beachplace for cash since we need to be there and now have a 7/29 week in Fairway Villas I am looking to get rid of.  One alternative is to put it in II,a and when the 13 month window opens for summer 2013, try to get Newport.  A second alternative is to rent the week.


What week in Newport were you trying to get?  I suspect the problem here is you were trying for a summer Newport week, and these are hard to get, even for owners (very bad seasoning at this resort has plat owners competing for a handful of weeks).  The DC also owns a good bit of Newport inventory, and I doubt they would release anything in the summer into II until very late in the game.  Basically, I don't think anything is wrong with the trade value of your week, but you were trying to get something that even the strongest weeks sometimes have trouble getting.



John Cerra said:


> I am committing to paying $165 a year instead of II fees, but would pay no exchange fees?


Correct.  

You get a low point allocation, so you would be hard pressed to get good exchanges with DC points (although you could do that summer desert week!).  From a purely economic perspective, you might be better off renting out your week the years you plan to go somewhere else.  As for fees, for you, there is not much, if any, fee savings.  It sounds like you use your resort some, which means that the DC might actually be more expensive for you in fees.  Joining for you would be more to get the option to rent points and to "legitimatize" your week with Marriott.  You're also at one of the few resorts where trading for MRPs is actually not a terrible deal, so you would open up that eligibility.


----------



## John Cerra

pipet said:


> You're right; these weren't hard trades. For future reference, you can get summer desert weeks as inexpensive Getaways.
> 
> 
> What week in Newport were you trying to get?  I suspect the problem here is you were trying for a summer Newport week, and these are hard to get, even for owners (very bad seasoning at this resort has plat owners competing for a handful of weeks).  The DC also owns a good bit of Newport inventory, and I doubt they would release anything in the summer into II until very late in the game.  Basically, I don't think anything is wrong with the trade value of your week, but you were trying to get something that even the strongest weeks sometimes have trouble getting.
> 
> Correct.
> 
> You get a low point allocation, so you would be hard pressed to get good exchanges with DC points (although you could do that summer desert week!).  From a purely economic perspective, you might be better off renting out your week the years you plan to go somewhere else.  As for fees, for you, there is not much, if any, fee savings.  It sounds like you use your resort some, which means that the DC might actually be more expensive for you in fees.  Joining for you would be more to get the option to rent points and to "legitimatize" your week with Marriott.  You're also at one of the few resorts where trading for MRPs is actually not a terrible deal, so you would open up that eligibility.




Could you explain this last point:  Joining for you would be more to get the option to rent points and to "legitimatize" your week with Marriott.  You're also at one of the few resorts where trading for MRPs is actually not a terrible deal, so you would open up that eligibility.?

btw, for an earlier poster, that ebay sale in insanely low.  You can rent the week for $1300 to $1400 no problem.


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## SueDonJ

thinze3 said:


> I know this has been asked before, but do your current reservations carry over and npt get cancelled when you enroll.  I am all but certain they remain in place.
> 
> I want to wait until the last day so that my bonus points will be good through early June 2013.  My 2013 reservations will already made and I do not want to lose them.



Yes, you'll keep any existing reservations.  (No change at all to any MVC-direct reservations; any pending matched II exchanges will remain in your old account.) 

You have just about the only good reason to not enroll until the last day but I'd advise you to do it first thing in the morning on that last day.  On the phone or online, doesn't matter - get in the queue as soon as it opens!  (Of course it's possible they'll surprise us and not have IT issues at the deadline so maybe this warning isn't necessary, but if they do, it's better to be prepared as much as possible.   )


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## billymach4

*Not worth joining*

John

With only one plat resale week at mfv, I would advise you not to sign up in the DC points club. 

Imho it would begin to make sense if you had at least  three weeks. 

I have three weeks all lockouts. I always lockout. Also rented my Aruba surf club for the first time this year.

I also reserve and occupy at Ocean Pointe. Also I trade on shoulder season in order leverage good II trades.

Also take  into consideration the other prime resorts outside of mvci. 

By the way I am not joining.


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## pipet

John Cerra said:


> Could you explain this last point:  Joining for you would be more to get the option to rent points and to "legitimatize" your week with Marriott.  You're also at one of the few resorts where trading for MRPs is actually not a terrible deal, so you would open up that eligibility.?



By "legitimatize," I just meant that your resale weeks will be eligible for the same benefits as a developer purchased week.  

Most developer purchased weeks are eligible to trade for Marriott Reward Points every other year.  In many cases, this is not a good deal if you compare MFs to the cash price for buying points (each point worth $.0125 @ Marriott.com), the rental value of your week (which you could also apply to buying MRPs), or how many nights you would get with a Marriott points hotel redemption.  However, if your MF/MRP point ratio is favorable, and you use your MRPs for a travel package (and then use the air miles part to fly 1st/business on a transoceanic flight), you can still do OK.  Of course, you don't need to buy into DC to accumulate MRPs (the Marriott credit card, etc), so this "benefit" may or may not be valuable to you.

I'd recommend going back SueDonJ's first post in this thread; it might be more meaningful now after all the additional comments.  You are not going to save buy joining in unless you exchange almost every year, so you have to decide if any of the pros of the DC are worth the extra cost.


----------



## m61376

John Cerra said:


> Could you explain this last point:  Joining for you would be more to get the option to rent points and to "legitimatize" your week with Marriott.  You're also at one of the few resorts where trading for MRPs is actually not a terrible deal, so you would open up that eligibility.?



Joining puts resale weeks on even footing with developer purchased weeks. At the moment, other than the ability to trade for Marriott Reward points (of questionable value, imho) that's not a big issue. However, right now Marriott is offering to basically grandfather pre June 2010 resale weeks, which may (or may not) continue down the road. Are further changes possible to the exchange program? Could Marriott ultimately handle all internal trades for their DC members, including week based trades? Might the 24 day Marriott preference we now see in II only be for corporate account weeks? These are only speculations, but ya never know, and it may be a finite opportunity to have those resale weeks included. I don't know if anyone else here thinks that this is even a remote possibility or it is just a figment of my over active imagination, but it is something that factors into my analysis.

The part about renting points is real- you have to be in it to use it. If you are an enrolled member, you never have to exchange for points, but you can rent points from others to perhaps rent an extra week somewhere, which can be much less expensive than renting directly from Marriott, even with the owners' discounts, and give you the security of your own reservation rather than merely renting on the Tug marketplace, Redweek or elsewhere.


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## shsansone

*DC enrollment questions*

Have looked at previous threads but could not find the answers to the following questions.
Will there be a charge for guest certificates or exchanging your units for Marriott reward points?
Will enrollment in II be a standard enrollment or will gold or platinum membership be available? 
Do we still retain our right to have representation on how the timeshare is run?


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## dioxide45

shsansone said:


> Have looked at previous threads but could not find the answers to the following questions.
> Will there be a charge for guest certificates or exchanging your units for Marriott reward points?



There is no charge to add another guests name to a points based reservation. For anything booked through II (exchange, getaway), there is still a guest certificate fee through II. There is no fee for exchanging Marriott to Marriott in II or trading your unit for Marriott Reward points. This is all part of the consolidated fee structure.



> Will enrollment in II be a standard enrollment or will gold or platinum membership be available?



You can still upgrade the II membership included with DC to II gold or platinum membership. If you upgrade to platinum, the guest certificate fee for II based confirmations is included with platinum membership.



> Do we still retain our right to have representation on how the timeshare is run?



Yes, you still vote for members of the HOA as you have in the past.


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## SueDonJ

shsansone said:


> ... Do we still retain our right to have representation on how the timeshare is run?





dioxide45 said:


> ... Yes, you still vote for members of the HOA as you have in the past.



Actually, I think this is important enough to expand a bit ...

When the DC was first rolled out one of the Enrollment Terms and Conditions was a voting restriction that stated, "1.) Owner represents and warrants to MVCEC that, as a Exchange Member, Owner:  e.) will not exercise any vote Owner may have in the owners" association ("Resort Association") operating the resort in which Owner's Timeshare Interest is located ("Resort") in a manner that is, in MVCEC's reasonable discretion, detrimental to the Program, including, without limitation, voting to limit or terminate the Resort's participation in the Program."

*That restriction*, #1.e., *was removed* from the document sometime before March 1, 2011, *and has not been replaced with anything that restricts the voting rights of an enrolled Member in any way*, especially and specifically with respect to the voting rights that every Weeks owner has by virtue of the Weeks governing docs.

For many owners that voting restriction was a significant factor for not enrolling their Week(s) in the DC.  IMO it's important to make it clear that it no longer exists in any form.


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## shsansone

*Voting rights*

Thanks so much Susan. I thought I had read something like that when Marriott first rolled out the program but had not seen anything mentioned about this in the more recent posts.
Could Marriott reinsert that language?


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## SueDonJ

Marriott has a lot of leeway to make changes to the governing docs in many different ways, so I'd guess that it's possible that another voting restriction could be stipulated in future Enrollment T&C's, sure.  But if such a stipulation isn't included in the particular version of T&C's that you agree to at the time of your enrollment, I don't know how they could demand that you conform to one.

It's also possible that a voting restriction might come about in some other amendment to any of the DC governing docs.  IMO, though, possible but not likely.  It would be easier to figure this out if Marriott had publicly stated why they had removed the Enrollment T&C's restriction when they did, but with no explanation we were left to guess and what seemed to make the most sense is that Weeks Owners are governed ultimately by the governing docs of their underlying Weeks.  It appears that any DC provision which would supercede that governance, would not be enforceable.   

Also important to note - for those of us who did enroll under the T&C's which included the original voting restriction, it had no effect on the voting proxies which we've received for the subsequent Annual Meetings.  At least, neither SurfWatch's nor Barony's Annual Meeting info packets made any mention of different voting rules for enrolled and un-enrolled Owners, and there were no reports on TUG of any different voting rules at any of the other resorts.


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## 4Reliefnow

*I recommend Enroll, just don't have to take points for weeks*

I enrolled a single resale week and I am probably crazy.  but,  the point system adds so much flexibility you need to think it through.  See my thread about why points are worth 80-90 cents: http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=170098

This is the value of renting points from someone else instead of buying more points yourself.  I still think buying points is way too expensive...like paying $30,000 for a Grande Vista week selling for $3,000 on ebay (Platinum is 3,175 points to reserve)

Having points, enrolling your weeks in points, is ridiculously flexible.  use points and reserve the week you want.  Put in a request with II,  get the week using exchange and then cancel the points reservation.

I exchanged into Ocean Pointe Th-Th and might want to stay longer.  I can get the weekday Sunday to Wednesday for less than half the cost of Friday/Saturday.   Or, I can decide to get a one BR Ocean Front for 400 instead of a 2br OV for 600 a night.  Or, i can take the auto transport train down to Florida and stay two night at Lakeshore Reserve since the train arrives in Orlando. 

 Flexibility is key.  I want to make 4 out of 5 reservations using weeks or exchanges and know that I have the flexibility to work around with points.

I recommend convert, and use weeks....but if renting imagine the flexibility of renting weeks for location and dates.


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## autumn

*Just enrolled this weekend*

We own 2 bedroom gold ocean club aruba, lockoff and exchange quite a bit, signed up just to cover the fees each year.  How long does it take to get the new interval account and 800 plus bonus points from the time you sign up which was just this past weekend? Thanks, Carol


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## tjkahn

autumn said:


> We own 2 bedroom gold ocean club aruba, lockoff and exchange quite a bit, signed up just to cover the fees each year.  How long does it take to get the new interval account and 800 plus bonus points from the time you sign up which was just this past weekend? Thanks, Carol



800 points - roughly a week

Interval account - they say 30 days, I probably got mine in 3 weeks


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## GreenEyedGuru

dioxide45 said:


> I think a good way to determine if enrolling for fee savings is a good option for an owners is to do this; review your last three usage year travel, exchange and use patterns. You can look at the last two years and the current or even next year if you have those already planned.
> 
> *Determine the following:*
> How many fees did you pay to Marriott and II that would now be covered under the single consolidated fee? Add all those fees together and multiply it by 2, then subtract either $990 (Standard Owner) or $1194 (Premier or Premier Plus Owner) from that number (these are the DC annual fees multiplied by six years). Five or sic years is a good time frame to use to determine a payback on the enrollment fee, though for simplicity I have used six years in this scenario. Then subtract your enrollment fee.



I'm sorry, I haven't checked this board in a few months, but has Marriott done away with point skim or the points inflation problem yet?

I know that when I looked at the DC points I'd get for my Ko Olina 2BR Platinum, it wasn't enough for a week on any of the other islands.  It was about 10-15% less than I'd need for a week.  This "skim" is a hidden cost of membership.

I also remember reading that there is fine print in the DC agreement that allows Marriott to increase the number of points required for a stay at a particular resort at any time in the future.  That means that my (approximately) 4500 points would be worth only 5-6 days in Hawaii now, but in the future they could be worth even less.

As an owner in a high demand location who rarely exchanges, I really don't see the benefit of the program for me at this time.  Please feel free to correct any of my assumptions above if the rules have been changed since the last time I was here.


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## m61376

GreenEyedGuru said:


> I'm sorry, I haven't checked this board in a few months, but has Marriott done away with point skim or the points inflation problem yet?
> 
> I know that when I looked at the DC points I'd get for my Ko Olina 2BR Platinum, it wasn't enough for a week on any of the other islands.  It was about 10-15% less than I'd need for a week.  This "skim" is a hidden cost of membership.
> 
> I also remember reading that there is fine print in the DC agreement that allows Marriott to increase the number of points required for a stay at a particular resort at any time in the future.  That means that my (approximately) 4500 points would be worth only 5-6 days in Hawaii now, but in the future they could be worth even less.
> 
> As an owner in a high demand location who rarely exchanges, I really don't see the benefit of the program for me at this time.  Please feel free to correct any of my assumptions above if the rules have been changed since the last time I was here.


You are right- nothing has changed. I am not a proponent of the program by any means, but there are some single week owners who have joined. Some feel that their cost savings in locking off and trading will in the long run make joining worthwhile. Others feel that if they bought resale it was worth being part of the full Marriott program while the opportunity exists. Others joined for the ability to rent points from others to increase their options and supplement their ownership for relatively easy and cheaper rentals. As a relatively high point allotted owner, while certainly there is too much skim to consider reserving at your home resort in points, you might find it beneficial at times to use points to reserve elsewhere, possibly being able to parlay a 7 day trade into 8,9 or 10 days at a lower point destination.

When making this decision, think about your needs today and if they will change 5 years or so down the road, as family dynamics change. If you don't anticipate trading much it may very well pay for you to stay put and continue business as usual. The majority of legacy owners are doing just that. Just giving you some reasons people are jumping on the bandwagon, many of whom rarely intend to trade for points.


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## mm251

*Need help making a decision using your experience with points.*

Nice to see so much information to base my decision on. I would like to know from those enrolled their experience using the DC points.  I have 2 external, one eligible and one not.  I can plug this info into the calculation examples provided.  Doesn't look like I will save by enrolling only one.  Notwithstanding: My experience with II has not been enjoyable.  I find it difficult to get exchanges comparable to MKO, even with request first.  If I have to rely on II for exchanges for both ownerships, I may wish I had spent the $1495!

I find the Hyatt point system very practical.  If Marriott is that functional, the point system may be worthwhile. Is it easy to get an exchange under the DC points program?  I would appreciate advice from others re: experience using DC.

Also, it would seem that if I enroll my eligible unit, I would loose the 13 month advance reservation unless I book at my home resort.  Another reason to stay out?

I have tried to read all the threads and I probably missed some that addressed the same issues.  I would appreciate opinions regarding my scenario.


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## stevens397

Okay - I need some help!

Marriott Fairway Villas was our first timeshare purchase and a mistake.  We've been there a time or two and don't care to return.  We bought with the idea of trading and have done well, but the whole II thing can be difficult.  One of the things that is part of our life, thanks to learning about using frequent flier and hotel points, is planning way ahead.  With II, you lose that option since you have to wait for them to match you to your request.  And then, if it's far away, free tickets can be difficult to get.

That said, we've traded every other year for Marriott points and been able to trade to Palm Springs, Marbella and Newport Coast. We've made the best of a bad situation.  We were actually so dumb we bought TWO weeks there at the same time but we sold one early on.

When I received the initial invite a few years ago, seemed to be a very small number of points so I just did nothing.  But reading some posts, I'm concerned I may be out in the cold if we do nothing and that we certainly would not spend $2500 in a few years.  I can afford the entry fee now without a problem.  Is it worth it to keep my options open?  We own two Starwood resorts and enjoy returning to Palm Springs and Scottsdale - Marriott is just kind of there for us.  We've used most of the Marriott Rewards for stays at the Ritz Central Park and have had some extraordinary vacations.  

What do you think?  Sit tight and play the game the way we have or fork over the dollars now just to keep options open.  At this stage of life, we take lots of overseas vacations and have done well with hotel points.  Any ideas?  Many, many thanks for any input.

Steve


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## dioxide45

I think perhaps a case can be made to enroll just for the fee savings alone. I will do this over five years. Since you trade every other year, I assume you still have an II membership that is annual and pay the fee every year, or a multi year renewal?

Year 1: Trade for MRPs - $109
Year 1: II Membership - $89
Year 2: Marriott to Marriott II Exchange - $119
Year 2: II Membership - $89
Year 3: Trade for MRPs - $109
Year 3: II Membership - $89
Year 4: Marriott to Marriott II Exchange - $119
Year 4: II Membership - $89
Year 5: Trade for MRPs - $109
Year 5: II Membership - $89

Over those five years you will pay ($165*5)+$595. So your cost to enroll and be in DC is $1420. Your a-la-carte fees over that same period is $1010. So it would cost you an additional $410 to enroll and be in DC. You gain additional options and can use DC points for reservation/trades through Marriott. However, you probably don't get enough points to get the same trades you do today. You also gain the ability to rent points directly from other owners or rent out your points. Only you can decide if those additional options are worth $410.


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## stevens397

Thanks Dioxide.  Now I currently get 100,000 Marriott points every other year.  Will I still get that?  Can I get additional points on the other years by not using my week?  If not, how do I actually use the other options on those years?  Sorry, very few examples on the website and hard to understand the specifics.

Thanks again.


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## dougp26364

stevens397 said:


> Thanks Dioxide.  Now I currently get 100,000 Marriott points every other year.  Will I still get that?  Can I get additional points on the other years by not using my week?  If not, how do I actually use the other options on those years?  Sorry, very few examples on the website and hard to understand the specifics.
> 
> Thanks again.



You can do EVERYTHING with your week that you could do before you joined. The DC changes nothing, it just adds benefits. 

You can reserve you home resort week just the way you always have

You can exchange for Marriott Rewards points as you always have

You can exchange your week through I.I. for other Marriott weeks as you always have

You can exchange your Marriott week for non-Marriott week through I.I. as you always have.

What does change is the fee structure (one fee vs ala carte fee's) and you have the added option of exchanging you week for Destination Club points and using the Destinaton Club options. Other than that, nothing changes.

After joining: 

We've booked a weekend trip using the bonus points we received for signing up.

We've made a traditional Marriott to Marriott weeks exchange online.

We've exchange one of our weeks for DC club points.

We've used the points to reserve two 7 night vacations.

We've used DC points to add 3 nights to the front end of another vacation.

Later this year we'll reserve a home resort week for next year, lock off that unit and exchange the studio portion online through I.I. We may or may not use that week to exchange for another Marriott resort depending upon what we see for availability. If I can get a larger unit with at a non-Marriott resort (sales weasels are saying will only be able to trade studio for studio), then I'll explore non-Marriott trades and pay the exchange fee (it's worth it to me for a larger unit). 

You're only adding options, you're not subtracting them.


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## stevens397

Thanks to all.  Taking out my credit card right now!


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## bobpark56

dioxide45 said:


> I think perhaps a case can be made to enroll just for the fee savings alone. I will do this over five years. Since you trade every other year, I assume you still have an II membership that is annual and pay the fee every year, or a multi year renewal?
> 
> Year 1: Trade for MRPs - $109
> Year 1: II Membership - $89
> Year 2: Marriott to Marriott II Exchange - $119
> Year 2: II Membership - $89
> Year 3: Trade for MRPs - $109
> Year 3: II Membership - $89
> Year 4: Marriott to Marriott II Exchange - $119
> Year 4: II Membership - $89
> Year 5: Trade for MRPs - $109
> Year 5: II Membership - $89
> 
> Over those five years you will pay ($165*5)+$595. So your cost to enroll and be in DC is $1420. Your a-la-carte fees over that same period is $1010. So it would cost you an additional $410 to enroll and be in DC. You gain additional options and can use DC points for reservation/trades through Marriott. However, you probably don't get enough points to get the same trades you do today. You also gain the ability to rent points directly from other owners or rent out your points. Only you can decide if those additional options are worth $410.



There are a few things wrong with the above posting:
1. The internal exchange fee is now $129 (from the MVCI web page).
2. Trading for Marriott rewards points is now $119.
3. Marriott says, "The fee is now only $165," implying this fee is likely to increase.
4. If you have to continue to pay for an II membership in order to trade other properties, you never get to write-off the $89/year. (This is a biggie for us, as we own only one Marriott 2BR unit.

I think you also omitted the fact that you will have to go outside of Marriott (or rent points) if you want to "trade up." So when you trade a 2BR gold week at MGV for a Marbella 3BR unit (did that this year) or for a Hilton Head Surfwatch unit (did that 2 years ago), or for Frenchman's Cove (did that last year) or for Aruba (did that 3 years ago)...you will not be able to escape II's exchange fees.

All this makes amortizing the DC sign-up and annual fees seem problematic. Or perhaps you are suggesting that those good trades will no longer be available through II?


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## SueDonJ

bobpark56 said:


> ... I think you also omitted the fact that you will have to go outside of Marriott (or rent points) if you want to "trade up." So when you trade a 2BR gold week at MGV for a Marbella 3BR unit (did that this year) or for a Hilton Head Surfwatch unit (did that 2 years ago), or for Frenchman's Cove (did that last year) or for Aruba (did that 3 years ago)...you will not be able to escape II's exchange fees. ...



I might be confused about what you're saying here, but ...

When you enroll Week(s), you'll be able to make the same types of exchanges through your new/corporate II account as you were able to make in your old/individual account.  You will not pay the II dues for that account or any exchange fees for Marriott-to-Marriott exchanges of your enrolled Week(s).

There's no reason why you won't be able to get similar up-trades as you've historically gotten through II.  True, if you convert your enrolled Week(s) to DC Points for usage in the DC Exchange Company, then most likely you will not be able to duplicate your historical up-trades.  But you won't have to convert to Points to do exchanges - you will still be able to do II exchanges and they'll be unaffected except that the II dues and fees for enrolled Week(s) are covered by the DC dues.


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## dioxide45

bobpark56 said:


> There are a few things wrong with the above posting:
> 1. The internal exchange fee is now $129 (from the MVCI web page).
> 2. Trading for Marriott rewards points is now $119.
> 3. Marriott says, "The fee is now only $165," implying this fee is likely to increase.



Good points, this brings Steven closer to break even instead of being at $410. This in fact puts his cost to enroll at $360 over five years. Even better. Sure that $165 fee is likely to go up, but the fee to do a Marriott to Marriott exchange in II has also gone up $10 per year consistently for the last four years. When we first bought in 2007, that fee was only $89.



> 4. If you have to continue to pay for an II membership in order to trade other properties, you never get to write-off the $89/year. (This is a biggie for us, as we own only one Marriott 2BR unit.



True, but I didn't get the impression that Steven owned other weeks. He owned two weeks at MFV and sold one of those weeks. Now only owns a single Marriott week. My response was directed to Steven's situation only.

If you also own only one Marriott week, you get this benefit too, you don't need to maintain an individual II account to trade in or outside of Marriott. Only those that own other II affiliated resorts need to be concerned with continuing to pay a separate II membership fee.



> I think you also omitted the fact that you will have to go outside of Marriott (or rent points) if you want to "trade up." So when you trade a 2BR gold week at MGV for a Marbella 3BR unit (did that this year) or for a Hilton Head Surfwatch unit (did that 2 years ago), or for Frenchman's Cove (did that last year) or for Aruba (did that 3 years ago)...you will not be able to escape II's exchange fees.



Sure you can. Being enrolled eliminates those a-la-carte fees (lock off, exchange, II membership, trade for MRPs). These fees are all included in the combined DC annual fee of $165/$199.



> All this makes amortizing the DC sign-up and annual fees seem problematic. Or perhaps you are suggesting that those good trades will no longer be available through II?



I believe that there will continue to still be plenty of good trades in II. I am not suggesting that Steven must now only trade in points. Enrolling doesn't force one to always elect DC points.


----------



## TRAVELING FOOL

*Enrolling in DC program*

Thank you all for the very informative points you've made regarding this issue. Until reading this, there was no way I was giving Marriott another dime. We generally exchange our 2 bedroom lock-off and have received many great deals through II. I will more than likely continue this , however, the $165/yr to DC really offsets all the lock-off,exchange fees, and II membership fee. There may be a time that I would want to go somewhere that only points could take me. Never thought I'd be joining, but never say never!


----------



## channimal

Looking at this though, do the numbers/fees get a little disproportionate if you bought your weeks via resale?


----------



## mm251

SueDonJ said:


> With the price increase two months away it appears we're going to be bombarded with this question; it's already in many different threads.  I thought it might be a good idea for all of us to try to answer everything related to it in one place.  Please feel free to add anything to the thread that helped you reach your decision.
> 
> *******
> 
> *1)*  First and most important!  *Enrollment in the DC does not equate to a permanent exchange of your Week(s) to DC Points.*  With respect to existing Week(s) the Destination Club is basically an overlay exchange system, with the same availability limitations as any other exchange system.  Enrollment does not change any of the traditional usage options of your Week(s).  You will still be able to book your home resort in season for personal use, exchange through II, rent through Marriott or privately, etc.  Enrollment simply gives you the additional option of converting your Week(s) to DC Points on an annual basis for usage in the DC system.
> 
> *2)*  Effective 6/14/12 the Enrollment Fee will increase to $2,395 for all eligible* Weeks.  Until 6/13/12, it is based upon the number of Weeks owned/being enrolled and the manner in which they were purchased:
> 
> - $595 for a single Week purchased direct from Marriott
> - $695 for multi-Weeks purchased direct from Marriott
> - $1,495 for a single Week purchased on the external market prior to 6/20/10
> - $1,995 for multi-Weeks including at least one purchased on the external market prior to 6/20/10.
> 
> *Weeks purchased on or after 6/20/10 - on the external market OR through Resales by Marriott - are not eligible for enrollment.
> 
> *3)* To determine how many DC Points your Week(s) will be allotted, sign in to your my-vacationclub.com account and click on the "Learn More" button then "What Is My Week Worth?"  This link should take you directly to the page after you sign in.
> 
> The owner status levels of DC Members are determined by the total number of DC Points for which you're eligible (and not by how many you may be using in a given year.)  These numbers are defined in the docs as a percentage of the aggregate total of DC Points and therefore, are subject to change.    Premier Members represent the top 20%, Premier Plus Members represent the top 5%.  Currently, a Standard Member has up to 6,499 DC Points; a Premier Member has 6,500 - 12,999 DC Points; a Premier Plus Member has 13,000+ DC Points.  This Benefits At A Glance chart details some of the benefits of membership status.
> 
> *4)* The current annual Club Dues fee is $165 for Standard Members, $199 for Premier and Premier Plus Members.  If you enroll your Week(s) you will be required to pay this annual fee regardless of whether you elect to convert your enrolled Week(s) to DC Points in a given year, and you must pay this annual fee in addition to the annual Maintenance Fees for your specific resorts.  If you do not pay this fee your enrollment will end; re-enrollment will be subject to the terms and fees in effect at the time of re-enrollment.
> 
> This fee covers the per/transaction Marriott fees related to Weeks usage such as cancellations, lock-offs, MRP-exchanges, etc.  General consensus is that this fee will probably increase over time just as the per/transaction fees have historically been subject to increases.
> 
> *5)*  The Club Dues fee also covers the II dues for the new/corporate II account which will be assigned to you, as well as the Marriott-to-Marriott exchange fees through that new II account.  Note if you exchange your enrolled Week(s) through that new II account to non-Marriott resorts, or, if you include a non-Marriott resort in an ongoing search through that account (regardless of whether it's ultimately matched to a Marriott resort,) you will be required to pay those II exchange fees.  As well, if you own non-Marriott resorts you will have to maintain a separate II account for those.
> 
> If you have an ongoing request in your old II account, that Week deposit will remain in that account and you will have to pay the II transaction fee for its ultimate exchange match.
> 
> When all of your Weeks have been enrolled and moved into your new II account, you will be eligible for AC's from II depending on how many months/years you have remaining on your old account: one AC if you have between one year and 35 months remaining, two AC's if you have between three years and 59 months, three AC's if you have more than five years remaining.  They'll be issued/processed in your old/individual account on a staggered basis, and you will have to pay the exchange fees for their use.  Each will expire one year from the date of issue.  Some TUGgers have been able to get a partial refund of their II dues, instead of keeping their old accounts open with these AC's, by calling in to II and requesting it.
> 
> Those of us who have enrolled our Week(s) do not see any differences between our old/individual and new/corporate II accounts.  The website interface is the same, inventory is the same for exchanges and Getaways, the occasional II promotions for extra intervals are the same, access to XYZ's is the same, up-grading to Gold and Plat status in II is the same, etc.  Your DC Club Dues, however, will not cover any of these II extras.
> 
> *6)* Enrolled Week(s) that were purchased direct from Marriott will retain the Marriott Rewards Points exchange option as it was originally offered.  Any pre-6/20/10 external resale Week(s) which are enrolled will gain an MRP exchange option as defined in the MR-related governing document:
> 
> 
> Basically, an enrolled external-resale Week will be eligible for the same amount of MRP that a similar direct-purchase Week is allotted, but on a reduced-frequency basis.  For example, a SurfWatch Plat 3BR direct-purchase Week can be exchanged annually for 135K MRP.  A same-interval Week purchased prior to 6/20/10 on the external market will gain upon enrollment the option to exchange it every-other-year for 135K MRP.
> 
> *7)*  Upon enrollment you will receive 800 DC Points as a bonus incentive, which will expire one year from the date of issue. This is the Points Chart detailing the number of DC Points required to reserve intervals. Play around with it to get an idea of how much usage value you can get out of those bonus Points - consider using them to tack on extra days to a Week(s) reservation, a weekend at a drive-to resort, etc.
> 
> Note this Points Chart is also the one you'll use to figure out usage of enrolled Week(s) that you've converted to DC Points.
> 
> *8)*  If you do enroll your Week(s) remember that the status and usage rules of each program do not extend to the other.  You follow the rules for whichever system you're using at the time.  For example, if you're booking Weeks then you go by the same Reservation Windows you always have, and if you're booking DC Points then you follow the Reservation Windows for those.  There are many new links on the my-vacationclub.com website to help figure out the mechanics of all the different usage options.
> 
> *9)*  Enrollment of a Week does not transfer upon resale of the Week to the new owner, and, the new owner will not be able to enroll the Week because external resales purchased after 6/20/10 are not eligible for enrollment.  Upon family transfer of an enrolled Week, the enrollment can transfer although the new owner of record may have to pay the then-current enrollment fee.  (The family transfer info is based on statements from Marriott execs since the DC inception; I don't think any actual transactions have been reported to TUG.)
> 
> ********
> Generally, enrollment in the DC makes the least amount of sense for owners of a single Week who do not routinely pay more than $165 annually in per/transaction Marriott and II fees, i.e. owners who use their Weeks at home resorts in season.  It makes the most sense for owners of multi-Weeks who routinely pay annual fees in excess of $199, i.e. those who lock-off and/or exchange on a regular basis.  For some, the flexible usage options - less-than-7-days DC Points stays, non-weekend check-in dates, the ability to bank/borrow Points to different Use Years, etc. - are major factors in favor of DC enrollment.  Certainly, some Weeks have been valued much higher than others by Marriott and the high Points allotments of those Weeks is another major factor.
> 
> There is no one right or wrong answer.  Take a look at your usage pattern and figure out if enrollment in the DC would, a) be cost-effective on a regular basis, or b) expand your options in ways that you will most likely take advantage of in the future.  Then consider your gut feelings and make your decision.  Finally, whatever you decide, go on and enjoy your vacations no matter how you're able to book them!
> 
> Good luck - it's not always an easy decision.


By my calculations, it appears that a single week external owner would be negative $40 after 5 years as an enrolled owner that exchanges lock-offs every year.  That assumes no increase in DC fees or II exchange fees.  However, there are many other variables posted that may enhance enrollment.  Those enhancements beg the following questions:
1. There is an apparent abillity to rent points from others.  Where are those points listed as rentals?
2. If I elect to use points by September 30 for the following year, am I then unable to use II exchanges and restricted to using points and the included skim?
3. Q&A at MVC, if I understand it correctly, indicates that I can only reserve point based exchanges after December 31, of the proceeding year. Since I would be a standard member by points, does that mean that I would have to wait until January to reserve point based exchanges within the next 12 months.
4.  I understand that I would receive 800 points at enrollment.  Would I have to wait until next year to combine the 800 points with my 2013 allotment for a reservation?

Given the flexibility of DC points, coupled with aquisition costs, enrollment may still be a viable option coupled with my currently ineligible ownership.

My apologies if I missed the answer in other posts. 

Thanks,
MichaelJ


----------



## ilene13

With 9 days left at the $695 rate I too will never say never.  Although at this juncture it will cost us more annually as I have to keep a second II account, we own no lockoffs and never exchange my Marriott units.  But I have some thoughts:
   We will probably retire the next year or so to Florida--I may not want to go to Aruba weeks 51 and 52--maybe summer--it's cooler than Fla.  
    We may not use Surfwatch in July as we will already be in Fla.  
So DC will give more options without trading through II.  Here are some questions:
    We will have 13500 points.  If in any year I only change some of my units to points, would we still get the 13 month advantage for the points reservations?
    They are giving me 800 bonus points.  If I called Marriott right now would they be kind enough to tell me if there was points availability for some days at Crystal Shores in Oct?

Thank you all.


----------



## NJMOM2

mm251 said:


> 1. There is an apparent abillity to rent points from others.  Where are those points listed as rentals?
> http://vacationpointexchange.com/   -   Thank you GregT and StevenTing
> 
> 2. If I elect to use points by September 30 for the following year, am I then unable to use II exchanges and restricted to using points and the included skim?
> If you elect to use your 2013 week as points you cannot change you mind and make your 2013 use year a week again to use in II
> 
> 3. Q&A at MVC, if I understand it correctly, indicates that I can only reserve point based exchanges after December 31, of the proceeding year. Since I would be a standard member by points, does that mean that I would have to wait until January to reserve point based exchanges within the next 12 months.
> Not sure I completely understand your question but I'll try to answer it.  Since we are already in the middle of 2012 you cannot elect points for your 2012 week - They should have been elected by 9/30/11.  If you elect to use your 2013 weeks for points you can make a reservation for any date in 2013 from 1/1/13 to (around) the current date. (Check the release date for the check in day you want - it should be available around 12 months ahead of check in)  If you want to make 2013 points reservation in Nov. - you will have to wait till Nov. 2012 when the inventory is released.  Your 2013 use year points are good from 1/1/13 to 12/31/13 unless borrowed to 2012 or banked to 2014.
> 
> 4.  I understand that I would receive 800 points at enrollment.  Would I have to wait until next year to combine the 800 points with my 2013 allotment for a reservation?
> You can borrow your 2013 points to combine with your 800 enrollment points to make a reservation before the end of 2012.  You can also use the 800 points up to one year after you get them - one year from now in 2013 - or you can use them by themself before they expire (one year from enrollment).



Good luck with your decision.


----------



## NJMOM2

ilene13 said:


> We will have 13500 points.  If in any year I only change some of my units to points, would we still get the 13 month advantage for the points reservations?



Your points status level is determinded by the total number of points you are entitled to in a given year - it does not matter if you EVER exchange your weeks for points and leave them as weeks.



ilene13 said:


> They are giving me 800 bonus points.  If I called Marriott right now would they be kind enough to tell me if there was points availability for some days at Crystal Shores in Oct?



I don't know if Marriott you let you know if what you is available if you are not already an enrolled member.  I hope they would be kind enough.  Give them a call and see.  I do know that as an enrolled member they will tell you if something is available using points BEFORE you elect to use points for a given year.


----------



## SueDonJ

ilene13 said:


> With 9 days left at the $695 rate I too will never say never.  Although at this juncture it will cost us more annually as I have to keep a second II account, we own no lockoffs and never exchange my Marriott units.  But I have some thoughts:
> We will probably retire the next year or so to Florida--I may not want to go to Aruba weeks 51 and 52--maybe summer--it's cooler than Fla.
> We may not use Surfwatch in July as we will already be in Fla.
> So DC will give more options without trading through II.  Here are some questions:
> We will have 13500 points.  If in any year I only change some of my units to points, would we still get the 13 month advantage for the points reservations? ...





NJMOM2 said:


> Your points status level is determinded by the total number of points you are entitled to in a given year - it does not matter if you EVER exchange your weeks for points and leave them as weeks.


With 13500 DC Points you'll have Premier Plus status.  Any time you use the DC system you'll follow all the rules, eligibility, reservation windows, etc for Prem Plus Members, regardless of how many Weeks you're converting to Points at that time.

Remember that the rules, etc for each program do not extend to the other, so when you're using Weeks nothing changes from what you've always done.  



ilene13 said:


> ... They are giving me 800 bonus points.  If I called Marriott right now would they be kind enough to tell me if there was points availability for some days at Crystal Shores in Oct?
> 
> Thank you all.





NJMOM2 said:


> ... I don't know if Marriott you let you know if what you is available if you are not already an enrolled member.  I hope they would be kind enough.  Give them a call and see.  I do know that as an enrolled member they will tell you if something is available using points BEFORE you elect to use points for a given year.



I agree.  Once you're enrolled you can call anytime and ask them to check DC availability without committing to converting Weeks to Points.  Calling specifically about availability before you're enrolled might not get you the same results, but it's worth a try.  You might have some success if you explain to the rep that you want to have a somewhat specific question answered before you commit to enrollment - something like, "if you search now do you see availability, for example, at Crystal Shores in October?"  If they just flat out refuse to search availability during that call, you can always hang up without committing to enrollment and then ask a TUGger who has DC Points to search for you.  (I'd do it but don't have any Points to play with.   )

Good luck.  It sounds like you have a pretty good grasp of what you need to know, and I don't blame you for wanting to be sure.


----------



## SueDonJ

channimal said:


> Looking at this though, do the numbers/fees get a little disproportionate if you bought your weeks via resale?



I'm not sure I'm understanding you correctly, but ... the only difference between external-resales and developer-direct costs is in the enrollment fees - all other numbers/fees are the same.


----------



## ilene13

SueDonJ said:


> With 13500 DC Points you'll have Premier Plus status.  Any time you use the DC system you'll follow all the rules, eligibility, reservation windows, etc for Prem Plus Members, regardless of how many Weeks you're converting to Points at that time.
> 
> Remember that the rules, etc for each program do not extend to the other, so when you're using Weeks nothing changes from what you've always done.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I agree.  Once you're enrolled you can call anytime and ask them to check DC availability without committing to converting Weeks to Points.  Calling specifically about availability before you're enrolled might not get you the same results, but it's worth a try.  You might have some success if you explain to the rep that you want to have a somewhat specific question answered before you commit to enrollment - something like, "if you search now do you see availability, for example, at Crystal Shores in October?"  If they just flat out refuse to search availability during that call, you can always hang up without committing to enrollment and then ask a TUGger who has DC Points to search for you.  (I'd do it but don't have any Points to play with.   )
> 
> Good luck.  It sounds like you have a pretty good grasp of what you need to know, and I don't blame you for wanting to be sure.



I did call and they were nice enough to give me an answer.  I did tell them it would be a deal breaker if they refused.  We have not joined yet and although we did not drink the koolaide we are leaning towards joining.


----------



## mm251

Thanks NJMOM2.  You did answer my questions.  It nice to these variables confirmed by another opinion.
I looked at vacationpointexchange.com.  Looks like a great source.  That explains what others were alluding to.  At .50 a point, or $2500 for a 5000 point unit, that will beat a lot of rentals.


----------



## mm251

*Using weeks retains 13 month reservation advantage.*



SueDonJ said:


> "Remember that the rules, etc for each program do not extend to the other, so when you're using Weeks nothing changes from what you've always done."
> 
> Thanks SueDonJ for the initial thread. I have learned a lot from all.
> One last question that you may have answered above.  If I enroll my eligible week and continue using weeks, would my ineligible week still count for the  13 month advance reservation as the owner of two Marriott's. (I would deposit them in II).


----------



## SueDonJ

mm251 said:


> ... One last question that you may have answered above.  If I enroll my eligible week and continue using weeks, would my ineligible week still count for the  13 month advance reservation as the owner of two Marriott's. (I would deposit them in II).



Yes, you'll still be able to use the 13-mos reservation window as long as you're booking your two Weeks concurrently/consecutively.  If during any year you convert your enrolled Week to DC Points, you'll have to use the 12-mos reservation window to book your single un-enrolled Week.


----------



## GrayFal

Joined today, said I would not but I caved  

Time will tell ....


----------



## Tellmanny

*Still on Fence...*

We're currently at Timber Lodge and sat through a presentation.  We own (bought directly from Marriott-not resale) 1 week at NCV (Gold) and have exchanged (successfully) thru II the past 4 years into locations where we wanted to go.

We have two young children (4 and 7) so we like to stay full weeks wherever we exchange to.  We're relatively "new" owners (since 2007).  Our "goal" is to eventually stay at All MVC locations...

Would appreciate feedback from "seasoned" owners to convince/persuade either way...

Thanks!!


----------



## Wally3433

I own at the Aruba SC, and I am staying put.  I can't get past the fact that they are not offering me enough points to stay a week in Aruba, during the season I purchased.

I split my unit each year, and end up trading into a two bedroom for two weeks in Aruba every year.  We've also used AC's.  We feel like we are getting a tremendous value already in our current situation, so I see no reason to switch.

The fees we pay to II seem extremely fair to me - we've never had a problem getting what we wanted - so it's a transaction fee we are happy to pay.

I have my hands around all the advantages and disadvantages to my decision,  and after reading all the posts here, feel like I understand everything.

I had to refer to my gut on this one.  My gut tells me that the Marriott Points system is unnecessarily confusing, is not tangible, and the point allocation for my unit does not pass the smell test.  Seems foolish to change something that we are already very happy with.

Good luck everyone on your decision.

Does anyone else feel the way I do?


----------



## mlfrancis

*I do*



Wally3433 said:


> We feel like we are getting a tremendous value already in our current situation, so I see no reason to switch.
> 
> The fees we pay to II seem extremely fair to me - we've never had a problem getting what we wanted - so it's a transaction fee we are happy to pay.
> 
> I have my hands around all the advantages and disadvantages to my decision,  and after reading all the posts here, feel like I understand everything.
> 
> I had to refer to my gut on this one.  My gut tells me that the Marriott Points system is unnecessarily confusing, is not tangible, and the point allocation for my unit does not pass the smell test.  Seems foolish to change something that we are already very happy with.
> 
> Good luck everyone on your decision.
> 
> Does anyone else feel the way I do?



We typically go the resorts we own, exchange or swap Waiohai every two years (go every 4), and lock-off Aruba and exchange the efficiency - so it's the best of all worlds.  I've seen no drop-off in availability in Interval, have been able to exchange that lock-off in 2010, 2011, and 2012 for full 2BR's at the best Marriotts in Hilton Head, Myrtle Beach, etc.

So we're not joining.


----------



## channimal

buying my ts on resale for extremely low $ and having other non-Marriott timeshares .. just doesn't make sense for me to join.


----------



## m61376

Wally3433 said:


> I own at the Aruba SC, and I am staying put.  I can't get past the fact that they are not offering me enough points to stay a week in Aruba, during the season I purchased.
> 
> I split my unit each year, and end up trading into a two bedroom for two weeks in Aruba every year.  We've also used AC's.  We feel like we are getting a tremendous value already in our current situation, so I see no reason to switch.
> 
> The fees we pay to II seem extremely fair to me - we've never had a problem getting what we wanted - so it's a transaction fee we are happy to pay.
> 
> I have my hands around all the advantages and disadvantages to my decision,  and after reading all the posts here, feel like I understand everything.
> 
> I had to refer to my gut on this one.  My gut tells me that the Marriott Points system is unnecessarily confusing, is not tangible, and the point allocation for my unit does not pass the smell test.  Seems foolish to change something that we are already very happy with.
> 
> Good luck everyone on your decision.
> 
> Does anyone else feel the way I do?


You're far from alone. I agree will everything you've said, but I'm going to join for two reasons- protection/insurance for what Marriott changes may come down the road that penalize non-members (or gives preference to members) and to be able to utilize the point rental market 

I'm the first to admit that it's probably 2K down the drain.


----------



## hansmatt

I think I'll also join, also as protection for future changes.  There will be no/little savings, but the initial outlay is "only" $600.  I'll be on a trip next week & may do a tour & see if they'll toss in some bones.


----------



## dioxide45

Wally3433 said:


> I split my unit each year, and end up trading into a two bedroom for two weeks in Aruba every year.  We've also used AC's.  We feel like we are getting a tremendous value already in our current situation, so I see no reason to switch.
> 
> The fees we pay to II seem extremely fair to me - we've never had a problem getting what we wanted - so it's a transaction fee we are happy to pay.
> 
> I have my hands around all the advantages and disadvantages to my decision,  and after reading all the posts here, feel like I understand everything.
> 
> I had to refer to my gut on this one.  My gut tells me that the Marriott Points system is unnecessarily confusing, is not tangible, and the point allocation for my unit does not pass the smell test.  Seems foolish to change something that we are already very happy with.
> 
> Good luck everyone on your decision.
> 
> Does anyone else feel the way I do?



The thing is, by enrolling, you aren't changing anything about your current ownership. You are only adding the points option. Everything you have done in the past you would be able to do in the future. I assume you only own the Marriott week (no other non Marriott's). You are paying $89+$119+119+$80 each year in fees for locking off and exchanging through II.

You are paying $407 each year in a la carte fees. While perhaps reasonable, you can do better by enrolling. If you bought from Marriott, you will be saving money in the second year. If you bought resale, then you will save money in the fourth year. For me the five year break even point is the target to look at. Wait until after the deadline and you will not break even for six years if you enroll after June 14th

While it is a personal decision, I see where a single week lock off owner that always trades both units can benefit from enrolling, and you never once have to convert to DC points. It is solely on fee savings along. You never have to subject yourself to the skim.


----------



## Wally3433

m61376 said:


> You're far from alone. I agree will everything you've said, but I'm going to join for two reasons- protection/insurance for what Marriott changes may come down the road that penalize non-members (or gives preference to members) and to be able to utilize the point rental market
> 
> I'm the first to admit that it's probably 2K down the drain.



I actually fear the opposite - Marriott changes that will adversely affect those that decided to join.

There's that part of me that says if Marriott wants me to convert so badly, right now, then it must be better for me to stand pat - and keep what they want to myself.  Twisted logic, for sure.


----------



## dioxide45

Wally3433 said:


> I actually fear the opposite - Marriott changes that will adversely affect those that decided to join.
> 
> There's that part of me that says if Marriott wants me to convert so badly, right now, then it must be better for me to stand pat - and keep what they want to myself.  Twisted logic, for sure.



Perhaps, but if they adversely affect weeks based ownership, it will adversely affect those that are enrolled and those that are not. Not sure why they would negatively target enrolled owners. Not sure what they could do that would negatively affect them vs just regular non enrolled owners.

MVCI wants people to enroll because that enrollment fee is 100% profit. That helps their new bottom line as a separately traded company. Shareholders like profit, I don't think there is much more to the push than that.


----------



## mm251

*I do not think there are ANY protections.*



Wally3433 said:


> I actually fear the opposite - Marriott changes that will adversely affect those that decided to join.
> 
> There's that part of me that says if Marriott wants me to convert so badly, right now, then it must be better for me to stand pat - and keep what they want to myself.  Twisted logic, for sure.



I agree the changes may adversely affect those that join.  As I read the documents, there are two levels of membership.  Trust members and exchange members (formerly weeks owners). You enroll for a year.  The rules are different for Trust vs Exchange members.  Exchange members are, if in good standing, offered a continuation of their membership annually.  That offer will and can be changed by Marriot VC at their whim.  The annual fee can be changed and even be different than the Trust member dues.  For those that are seeking "protection", there is none.  Every clause in the terms and conditions is subject to MVC's unilateral modification.  If too many Exchange members use only their weeks, MVC loses their skim.  Can we trust that they will not make it up by increasing dues for that select group that is "allowed" to join.  The exchange costs have to be covered somewhere.
The more I look at the whole scenario, the more it is likened to the sales floor where:  If you do not buy that car today, the price will not be available tomorrow!  

I have a difficult time trusting the creators of the point system that sent weeks values into a freefall!  

Someone, please tell me that I have misunderstood what I read.


----------



## m61376

I agree that there is a lot that's subject to modification, but really that's been true of the exchange program right along. I do fear that perhaps a logical extension of the DC program might be to give Marriott preference in II only to DC club members (please note this is just a figment of perhaps my overactive imagination), which would be a big benefit to enrolled week owners versus non-DC members. It would be an easy extension of the program since enrolled members have their enrolled weeks in a corporate II account.

As a resale owner I also am wary as to whether or not they will continue to basically grandfather those weeks in the future, I find it curious that the upcoming price increase is pretty dramatic for direct week purchasers but relatively minimal for resale week owners, unless their intention is to no longer offer that option for enrollment in the near future. Again, this is all conjecture and may very well be a poor reason to join. 

I'm rationalizing taking the plunge and joining by the likely use of renting points to supplement my ownership at some point in the future, feeling that the savings will hopefully offset the enrollment costs and feel that enrolling will protect my "investment." Although many the resale weeks purchased by Tuggers were relative bargains, many of us still made substantial outlays and while not an investment in the traditional sense perhaps, we still would like to protect its usage. I do feel that developer purchased weeks will always be welcome to join, albeit at a higher price, but Marriott may roll up the welcome mat for pre- June 2010 resale weeks; that may have been a time limited opportunity because Marriott needed as many owners as they could get to jump on the bandwagon to get the program started. Sadly, it is in their best interest to further enhance the value of points and I could foresee them further devaluing resale weeks by limiting the Marriott preference in II for trading to club members only. Admittedly, I seem to be in a small minority here (possible the only one) that feels this is a likely sequelae, but I suspect we'll see this as a further "enhancement" to the program in the not too far distant future. I hope I am wrong.


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## Luckybee

We finally decided not to join. After going back and forth for the past couple of weeks and spending the better part of this afternoon on the phone with other friends from Aruba we decided there simply wasnt any point to it for us. 

I originally thought of it as "insurance" but as my one friend said "from what" . There are not that many properties in the entire Marriott inventory that we would give up Aruba for, and if we do trade it may very well be outside Marriott. When we go to many other places we wouldnt likely stay at the Marriotts since we have our other favourites , and the skim would not allow us to get anything of comparable value(unless one thinks Orlando and/or Beach Place etc. is a fair comparison...lol). In the case of having to trade on short notice for medical situations (which is always my biggest concern)points wouldnt work for us. 

I have to be honest , had it not been for the outrageous Aruba skim we would have joined, and perhaps excercised the points option for some of our other holidays but C'est La vie
So as Ilene put it...we aren't drinking the koolaid, rather planning on enjoying our lovely glasses of wine while gazing out at many more Aruba sunsets  !

Geez, good to have this thought process over with :whoopie:


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## amyhwang

Wally3433 said:


> I own at the Aruba SC, and I am staying put.  I can't get past the fact that they are not offering me enough points to stay a week in Aruba, during the season I purchased.
> 
> I split my unit each year, and end up trading into a two bedroom for two weeks in Aruba every year.  We've also used AC's.  We feel like we are getting a tremendous value already in our current situation, so I see no reason to switch.
> 
> The fees we pay to II seem extremely fair to me - we've never had a problem getting what we wanted - so it's a transaction fee we are happy to pay.
> 
> I have my hands around all the advantages and disadvantages to my decision,  and after reading all the posts here, feel like I understand everything.
> 
> I had to refer to my gut on this one.  My gut tells me that the Marriott Points system is unnecessarily confusing, is not tangible, and the point allocation for my unit does not pass the smell test.  Seems foolish to change something that we are already very happy with.
> 
> Good luck everyone on your decision.
> 
> Does anyone else feel the way I do?



I do feel the same way.  We bought EOY at Ko Olina, and the first year we used just the one bedroom and deposited the studio (our kids were younger at the time, just 10 and 12).  We used the sitting room with one rollaway for my daughter, and the living room with another rollaway for my son, put them both, one upright, in the sitting room during the day, so it worked out great that year.  The studio got us a full 2 bedroom at the Four Seasons in Phoenix the following year, so we visited friends that live in Phoenix and had a great vacation there!  With daily full maid service to boot!

We bought EOY and plan to do just that, go to Ko Olina probably every two years.  So we plan on using our week that way for a while at least.  Since we only have one eligible week, it seems like a waste of money to have to pay every year to keep enrolled, and probably not use the points.  It would be money wasted I think.

Our friends own a bunch of great weeks, bought before Ko Olina was even built, so they got a better price than we did.  For them, it makes sense, since they own a lot, and give the time away a lot (they're very generous people).  I totally understand the benefit for them, but for our one week it's not worth it.  

If we decide to trade with II, we have a great trader so I'm not worried.


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## davemy

I am not Joining because I don't have a extra $700.00 to waste on Timesharing or Vacations right now. My Kids are killing me. lol  I am not going to put it on my Visa either. If i had the money to throw away right now, I would have joined just to stay in the loop with Marriott, but i don't. Will see what happens, I hope I don't regret it.


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## Old Hickory

Tellmanny said:


> We're currently at Timber Lodge and sat through a presentation.  We own (bought directly from Marriott-not resale) 1 week at NCV (Gold) and have exchanged (successfully) thru II the past 4 years into locations where we wanted to go.
> 
> We have two young children (4 and 7) so we like to stay full weeks wherever we exchange to.  We're relatively "new" owners (since 2007).  Our "goal" is to eventually stay at All MVC locations...
> 
> Would appreciate feedback from "seasoned" owners to convince/persuade either way...
> 
> Thanks!!



We too are single week original owners (since 2007) who exchange our week every year into a new location/property.  Our payback is nearly 13 years if fees remain the same but *we enrolled *because the DC gives us flexibility to use points for less than a week stay should we ever need that option.  And the 800 bonus points might (might) make up the $595 to enroll.


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## bsohn

I thought I would chime in on this about my experience with the Destination Points.. We signed in early and it has been a huge and i mean HUGE advantage to me..

#1 between me and my parents trust we own 7 weeks at top properties and this is an advantage in the destination points scenario as you are given more points for better properties..

At first joining was just to take advantage of the II being paid for as well as the exchange fees. A year of Membership in II was something like $70 (i Think that is what it was) and one exchange was $120.00 so right there we were at $190 or so..

The bonus 800 points that were given more than paid for the $695.00 entrance to the program as I rented off the reservation made with the points to the tune of $800.00 so I made that back easy.

The main thing though is this.. Last January my jad passed away. He and my mom used their stays in Hawaii all the time and in an instant no travel was being made.. Granted Hawaii is easily rentable.. so the made reservations were easy to get rid of.. but what I found is that with the points I can now get a potential rental and then find exactly what they want rather than being stuck to just the resorts I own.. This has allowed us to pay for our maintenance fees and costs and not have to travel because none of us in the family can currently use all that we have available to us.. 

This has been a very very good thing as when my dad passed it also cut down the family income considerable and we even considered for a second selling off the timeshares completely.. But the destination points has allowed us to retain all of our units through renting them off more easily. 

The one thing that is a concern for the future is that the Destination Points Program has two parts the Exchange portion which is what current owners can sign in for and the Trust portion which is what Marriott is currently selling and owns.. The issue is that Exchange Destination Points cannot be used for Trust Destination points units.. Therefore, any new property that Marriott builds will be Trust ONLY therefore our Exchange points will not work to get into these resorts. This is why Interval is included in the Club Dues as you will get first dibs on these resorts through interval but you will not be able to make a direct reservation at these properties. However this issue works both ways as properties that were sold out in weeks are unavalible to new owners with Trust points without the owners at those resorts giving their weeks up in exchange.

All in all the Destination Points have been good to us for many reasons. I would highly suggest enrolling even if you think there is no use for you at this moment. Granted it is best to do it fast as they are seriously upping the cost. I will admit though that the owners with higher power more expensive properties will benefit much more than a single low property owner. But if you own properties for the purpose of exchanging it will save you money.

Brion


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## puckmanfl

good evening...

I am going to try and address Luckybees scenario and try and convince Lucky to enroll... I am making a few assumptions, so if I am incorrect please gently correct me...

Lucky, I believe from your posts you are a single retail purchaser (from MVCI) of a single Aruba week.  It also appears you go yearly, unclear if you have a 2 bedroom L/O.

Lets simplisticly assume that you never exchange, lockoff and you only occupy!!!  Pay the $595 and use the 800 pts to book a 2-3 day weekday stay (tues-wed-thurs) before a friday check in or a sun mon tues after a sunday checkout.  These xtra days would be about $595 perhaps more on marriott.com


even if you never do a single DC transaction you are even....

it gets better..you book the week you want at your home resort at 12 months out.  Now, you want to change your week within season.  What used to be a $29 fee is now zero!!!

I think the "skim" is real but put it in perspective....It is not relevant regarding getting a week at your home season in your home resort.  You never did this before thru II, so why would you do it thru DC...Just pick out the week you want as always...

The "skim" kicks in  when you exchange from one property to another.  Take my Waiohai week..I get 4250 pts for this..The average for a week in my season  is 4500 so my skim is 250 pts. Pres week is now 5000 pts (+/-) a few.  If I wanted Pres  week (not plat plus here) I would use my atomic clock and call in... 

The skim plays in when you go to comparable properties...Assume Koolina and Waiohau are both 4500 to book a week.  Yet I only get 4250.  I have been skimmed by 250 pts to do this exchange.  I need to pick up 250 pts to do this...I rent them from Gregs site for $125 which is the equivalent of the II exchange fee, as an enrolled member there is NO internal exchange fee.  So in the old method you were skimmed post excahnge, in DC you are skimmed pre exchange..but if you value a DC point at $0.50 it is a wash...

If you have a 2 bedroom l/o and want to play and uptrade, do it in weeks and ave on fees!!!!

Here is another issue to consider... At the end of the day, you are going to leave this unit to an heir... Perhaps your heirs don't want to go to Aruba.  It would be better for them to inherit a deeded week with DC options.  Perhaps, they want to stay closer to home...

Remember the choice isn't  Weeks OR points, it is weeks PLUS DC point capabilities!!!

Lucky, I agree that Aruba owners got hosed on the points conversion but I think you are better off enrolling...

As I said at the opening, at the very least you are paying $595 to extend of one your Aruba weeks by 2 days...not so terrible!!!

just my 2 cents!!!


----------



## FractionalTraveler

Also to consider is that all new program enhancements may be limited to DC members in the future.


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## Luckybee

puckmanfl said:


> good evening...
> 
> I am going to try and address Luckybees scenario and try and convince Lucky to enroll... I am making a few assumptions, so if I am incorrect please gently correct me...
> 
> Lucky, I believe from your posts you are a single retail purchaser (from MVCI) of a single Aruba week.  It also appears you go yearly, unclear if you have a 2 bedroom L/O.We have 2 weeks but they are 1 bdrm gold season and yes we go almost every year...we've missed 2 or 3...and only when there have been medical issues for not going, and in all cases we were able to trade through I.I. for exactly what we wanted
> 
> Lets simplisticly assume that you never exchange, lockoff and you only occupy!!!  Pay the $595 and use the 800 pts to book a 2-3 day weekday stay (tues-wed-thurs) before a friday check in or a sun mon tues after a sunday checkout.  These xtra days would be about $595 perhaps more on marriott.com. I checked with Marriott about this and they're only good for 1 year, and given that we're in Canada, with no timeshares any where near us, and we already have our flights booked for the next 3 trips between now and next May, they'd probably go to waste , or we'd simply end up giving them away. We might be able to use 2 days for Aruba but then we'd have to give up our extra nights at the Hyatt hotel there which I love...lol)
> 
> 
> even if you never do a single DC transaction you are even....
> 
> it gets better..you book the week you want at your home resort at 12 months out.  Now, you want to change your week within season.  What used to be a $29 fee is now zero!!! We've only had to do that once in about 15 years of ownership
> 
> I think the "skim" is real but put it in perspective....It is not relevant regarding getting a week at your home season in your home resort.  You never did this before thru II, so why would you do it thru DC...Just pick out the week you want as always...
> 
> The "skim" kicks in  when you exchange from one property to another.  Take my Waiohai week..I get 4250 pts for this..The average for a week in my season  is 4500 so my skim is 250 pts. Pres week is now 5000 pts (+/-) a few.  If I wanted Pres  week (not plat plus here) I would use my atomic clock and call in...
> 
> The skim plays in when you go to comparable properties...Assume Koolina and Waiohau are both 4500 to book a week.  Yet I only get 4250.  I have been skimmed by 250 pts to do this exchange.  I need to pick up 250 pts to do this...I rent them from Gregs site for $125 which is the equivalent of the II exchange fee, as an enrolled member there is NO internal exchange fee.  So in the old method you were skimmed post excahnge, in DC you are skimmed pre exchange..but if you value a DC point at $0.50 it is a wash...Here's where the problem comes in...we only get about 2050(or 2100...I've forgotten now) points per week....if we did want to do Ko-Olina we'd only get about 3 or 4 night for a weeks value. The only other property potentially would be Waiohai and thats in another dimension point wise. Wouldnt do Lihue, or Maui(no disrespect to Maui owners but we simply have other favourites on Maui, and unlike many other timeshare owners Im quite happy with a 6* hotel even if the room is smaller ). So for the properties we would take I cant see the point given that I wouldnt give up 2 weeks in Aruba for 8- 10 days in Ko- Olina
> 
> If you have a 2 bedroom l/o and want to play and uptrade, do it in weeks and ave on fees!!!!
> 
> Here is another issue to consider... At the end of the day, you are going to leave this unit to an heir... Perhaps your heirs don't want to go to Aruba.My husband has 2 sons, who have both been to Aruba and both love it....but I dont plan on turning it over anytime soon, at least I hope not to   It would be better for them to inherit a deeded week with DC options. Here's where you do have me though...I thought that Dc membership didnt transfer to anyone else ?  Perhaps, they want to stay closer to home...We're in Canada...do you really think anyone wants to be here in the winter ?
> 
> Remember the choice isn't  Weeks OR points, it is weeks PLUS DC point capabilities!!!
> 
> Lucky, I agree that Aruba owners got hosed on the points conversion but I think you are better off enrolling...
> 
> As I said at the opening, at the very least you are paying $595 to extend of one your Aruba weeks by 2 days...not so terrible!!! ($695 ...but you're right..spent more than that today taking my neighbours cat to the vet...dont ask ) I know some may find this illogical, but part of my decision is based on principal...since I dont feel like I'm missing anything by not joining, why would I give Marriott an extra $700 when they have, as you said "hosed" Aruba owners so badly...mind you this isnt the first time....but dont get me started ....lol) I also happen to think that they "hosed " owners who travel in the last quarter of the year because they're the only ones who can't check out point trade space before commiting to trading for points if they are members ! ie: Sept. the yr prior.  just my 2 cents!!!



Your insight is always quite interesting Puck...does your perspective change now with these additional facts?


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## puckmanfl

Luckybee said:


> Your insight is always quite interesting Puck...does your perspective change now with these additional facts?



Yes, it sure does....

Perhaps you could explain your situation to MVCD and they could defer your 800 pts for one year!!!  It would take flexibility and common sense on their part, thus I am not optimistic but its worth a shot...

The gist of your angst, is the "hosing" that you and the other Aruba owners took with the points charts... I remember in all of my sales tours, the Aruba properties were in the top echelon

Hawaii
Caribbean in winter
Ski weeks
PalmBeach winter
HHI summer

no particular order...  

MY  waiohai was priced the same as Aruba plat but did better in points.  Aruba owners took it on the chin.  I can't fix that!!!  The other bummer is you are not driving distance from other resorts...  I hail from Tampa, with 14 resorts within a 8 hr drive   10 within 4 hrs  easy to take a "getatway"

Lucky, I think in your situation DC doesn't work for you but I think in the future(to quote M6) they are going to stack the deck in favor of enrollees.  Yes, I know you still have your week ,in your season but they will find a way

I still would not sell the heir thing short..Things have a way of changing!!! If you enroll DC priviliges move to your heirs.  This is clear and in the supporting documents!!!


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## dioxide45

puckmanfl said:


> I still would not sell the heir thing short..Things have a way of changing!!! If you enroll DC priviliges move to your heirs.  This is clear and in the supporting documents!!!



I think though that the ability to enroll an enrolled week also pases to an heir. So if one has an enrolled ownership and it passes to the heir, then the heir can enroll that week. Though they will have to pay the then enrollment fee and also only if enrollment is still open. That fee of course will be much more on June 14th than today for a direct purchaser.

I think it is also possible to get ~$400 out of renting the PlusPoints as a reservation. The important thing is to put them up for rent the day you get them and don't wait until just a few months before they expire to offer them up.


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## Luckybee

puckmanfl said:


> Yes, it sure does....
> 
> Perhaps you could explain your situation to MVCD and they could defer your 800 pts for one year!!!  It would take flexibility and common sense on their part, thus I am not optimistic but its worth a shot...
> 
> The gist of your angst, is the "hosing" that you and the other Aruba owners took with the points charts... I remember in all of my sales tours, the Aruba properties were in the top echelon
> 
> Hawaii
> Caribbean in winter
> Ski weeks
> PalmBeach winter
> HHI summer
> 
> no particular order...
> 
> MY  waiohai was priced the same as Aruba plat but did better in points.  Aruba owners took it on the chin.  I can't fix that!!!  The other bummer is you are not driving distance from other resorts...  I hail from Tampa, with 14 resorts within a 8 hr drive   10 within 4 hrs  easy to take a "getatway"
> 
> Lucky, I think in your situation DC doesn't work for you but I think in the future(to quote M6) they are going to stack the deck in favor of enrollees.  Yes, I know you still have your week ,in your season but they will find a way
> 
> I still would not sell the heir thing short..Things have a way of changing!!! If you enroll DC priviliges move to your heirs.  This is clear and in the supporting documents!!!



I asked owner services if there was any way to extend the expiry of the 800 points and was given a very firm absolutely not ! 

The "hosing" is also quite interesting when one compares rental rates. We paid less on a per night basis on our last trip to Ko-olina for a 1 bdrm, then we would have had we been renting a 1 bdrm at the OC in Aruba for the same time frame. 

I agree that the deck may very well be stacked in favour of dc members in the future, but that said we do still have our weeks which have more than paid for themselves(after 8 yrs we were at the break even point, which for us meant that if we has to sell them for 1 cent we lost nothing). They cant take our weeks away in our season no matter what they do(sounds like a song..."they cant take that away from me, lalalala"...although I wouldnt be surprised if they tried ...lol. We still love going to Aruba, which is getting more popular all the time so that if worse came to worse I'm confident we could get out of them if our life circumstances change. 

What I do find amazing, perhaps more sad then anything else is that the people selling these things still dont know there own product. I was told by the rep I spoke with that DC membership does not transfer on sale or death. Quite frankly I was too lazy to check it out myself  (But if they're giving out inaccurate info it could be costing them business if this was an important factor to someone)


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## Luckybee

dioxide45 said:


> I think though that the ability to enroll an enrolled week also pases to an heir. So if one has an enrolled ownership and it passes to the heir, then the heir can enroll that week. Though they will have to pay the then enrollment fee and also only if enrollment is still open. That fee of course will be much more on June 14th than today for a direct purchaser.
> 
> I think it is also possible to get ~$400 out of renting the PlusPoints as a reservation. The important thing is to put them up for rent the day you get them and don't wait until just a few months before they expire to offer them up.



That makes more sense because my question to the rep was , "if we do join does the enrollment pass to someone we sell to , or if we give it to dh's sons, or pass it in a will ", at which point I was told, that it didnt and they would have to pay the fees to enroll again if allowed at that time.

Re : renting...Im just too lazy to bother ...as I said in an earlier post, we ended up giving a weeks stay to friends for Xmas who are joing us this upcoming Aruba trip in November. I know I could have rented out the week, or kept it for another year in I.I but we really wouldnt have used it since our holidays are pretty much accounted for.


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## puckmanfl

good morning

Lucky....

call 888 MVCIVOA.. andget a supervisor/manager on the line... explain your situation.  Tell them you will enroll if plus points can be deferred one year..if not you won't enroll... bet they come through!!!

I see your point if you don't enroll..let me know..

p.s. I'll take any week that you dont want to rent in the future  :whoopie: :whoopie: :whoopie:


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## m61376

Especially if it's a week in Aruba  ! We landed up giving a unit to friends and due to the generosity of another Tugger had another unit the same week to give to friends as well. Not only did we all have a great time, but the second set of friends said it was the best vacation he's had since his honeymoon, and they still talk about it months later.

I do agree with Luckybee, especially about both using my Aruba weeks and the shafting of Aruba owners (despite, as Puck alluded to, being told over and over that Aruba traded second only to Maui) but nevertheless am going to join, I guess just for the "what ifs....." Probably not the smartest move, but it does impart a level of comfort.

That said, I know several people have posted about calling in to enroll. Is there any disadvantage to just clicking through online? No danger of converting weeks or anything, is there, or any other things I should look out for or read carefully?


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## dioxide45

It seems that the Caribbean resorts have a different setup on the points chart than the mainland resorts. The weekend differential is not as great as those more drive to locations. Also the peak times are REALLY peak in point prices. Hawaii is similar to this. My thought is that these resorts are more week long destinations or where people go for longer periods and not just weekend stays. They are also more tied to peak travel periods where places like Orlando or other mainland locations may have a more spread out demand period.

I do agree with the Aruba ripoff. I think for the 51/52 Surf Cub, there is at least a 2000 point skim from what they give an owner vs. what they charge for that same week.


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## vacationcrazy

*Don't Know What to Do? Please Help!*

I own one Marriott Platinum eligible resale week and one week at a non Marriott resort.  I do not see how the DC would be a benefit for me as I would have to maintain a II account anyway.  Could anyone please weigh in on my situation and give advice as to what to do.
Thanks,


----------



## dioxide45

vacationcrazy said:


> I own one Marriott Platinum eligible resale week and one week at a non Marriott resort.  I do not see how the DC would be a benefit for me as I would have to maintain a II account anyway.  Could anyone please weigh in on my situation and give advice as to what to do.
> Thanks,



We need to know how you have used your eligible week in the past and how you plan to use it in the future. Are you retired, close to retirement? There are a number of factors that we would base our advice on.


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## abg1688

m61376 said:


> That said, I know several people have posted about calling in to enroll. Is there any disadvantage to just clicking through online? No danger of converting weeks or anything, is there, or any other things I should look out for or read carefully?



I have the same question whether I can just enroll online or there is any benefit calling owner service?  I read somewhere that the 800 DC points have to be used up this year?  Can we see the availability prior to joining DC?  Thanks!


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## Ann in CA

There is not an advantage that I know of to calling owner services to enroll.  Our 800 points are good for one year from the date we enrolled, not just until the end of this year.  Looking forward to spending them!


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## abg1688

Ann in CA said:


> There is not an advantage that I know of to calling owner services to enroll.  Our 800 points are good for one year from the date we enrolled, not just until the end of this year.  Looking forward to spending them!



Thanks.  Once you enrolled, can you make servation right  away, and exchanges right away or there is a waiting period?


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## Ann in CA

I think it took a couple of weeks for the II account to be active.  We were traveling so I didn't check often.  Now when we check in I have my old II account (we still have a week and some ACs there) and can see that account  and the new one, and switch back and forth easily, without logging out and starting over again. 

 Tried playing with the 800 points at myvacationclub.com tonight, have a bit to learn about that part, but I was able to do a few to see how far the 800 will go at different resorts.  Could also use the points chart, but want to get used to what it takes to reserve online with points.


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## puckmanfl

good morning

Lucky...

I am going to try again to get you the enroll....

I am going to ask you to consider using the "reverse skim"  The reverse skim lets you upgrade from a 1 to 2 bedroom or (2 to 3) for less than the cost of the studio ressie.  I don't have my point charts handy, but it works like this.  Hypothetically, a 1 bedroom at joint A costs 2000 DC points, the studio 1 week costs 1300 pts.  however the 2 bedroom is 3000 pts.  The reverse skim is 300 pts in your favor!!!!

Take your Aruba Golds...you stated you have 2 units. so essentially you have "14 bedroom nights".  You get 2100 pts per.  Assuming a skim of about 8%  It would take 2400 pts to reserve your unit using DC points.  Perhaps, one year instead oft aking 2 separate trips in the one bedroom, you want to take your family/friends in a 2 bedroom for 10 nites...You book a 2 bedroom week using the reverse skim for 3300 pts and use your remaining 900 pts (2100 X 2) and snag 3-4 more nites on the front or back end (weekdays)
Now you have 10 days in a 2 bedroom for a total of "20 bedroom nights'

You would have to pull out your charts to see if it could work...You could also "downgrade" your view and do even better.  If you have OF , you could downgrade view to OS and even with the skim get 8-9 days for your week.  The point charts really do favor the OF owner...remember, if you trade in II you frequently get skimmed on the view when you get confirmed

Play with the numbers and let me know if this works for you!!!


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## piper_chuck

abg1688 said:


> Thanks.  Once you enrolled, can you make servation right  away, and exchanges right away or there is a waiting period?


Not sure what type of reservation you want to make, but after I enrolled Wed morning I immediately had an option elect vacation club points for 2013 for both of my weeks. What I do not yet have is my 800 bonus points or any idea about my new II account. I suspect I could make a vacation club reservation if I convert one of my 2013 weeks to points, but I need to do some studying on points usage before I do anything.


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## TheTimeTraveler

vacationcrazy said:


> I own one Marriott Platinum eligible resale week and one week at a non Marriott resort.  I do not see how the DC would be a benefit for me as I would have to maintain a II account anyway.  Could anyone please weigh in on my situation and give advice as to what to do.
> Thanks,






A big advantage of the DC program is that you can make your week begin and end mid week in order to take advantage of the better air fares.

Most air fares are lower priced if you fly on a Tuesday or a Wednesday....

At least it's another factor out there to consider.

Best of luck with your decision.





.


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## dioxide45

abg1688 said:


> I have the same question whether I can just enroll online or there is any benefit calling owner service?  I read somewhere that the 800 DC points have to be used up this year?  Can we see the availability prior to joining DC?  Thanks!



I think it may be better to enroll online. There are certain terms you have to agree to, by doing it online you do that as part of the enrollment process online. If you do that over the phone they e-mail you some documents that you have to agree to and e-mail back. We enrolled online and it was seamless, once enrolled online you were done. Received some e-mails was all. We didn't have to respond back to anything after the fact.


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## m61376

dioxide45 said:


> I think it may be better to enroll online. There are certain terms you have to agree to, by doing it online you do that as part of the enrollment process online. If you do that over the phone they e-mail you some documents that you have to agree to and e-mail back. We enrolled online and it was seamless, once enrolled online you were done. Received some e-mails was all. We didn't have to respond back to anything after the fact.



Thanks. I assume that the option to convert a week that piper_chuck mentioned was obvious, or do I need to carefully scrutinize every page not to make an error and accidentally  convert to points?

I started to do it last night but was tired and didn't want to unintentionally deposit weeks. I guess part of me really is resisting this- hence the procrastination.


----------



## puckmanfl

good morning

m6  just do it... you can't possibly convert your week to points accidentally.... enrolling just gives you the option!!!!

you'll feel better!!!!


----------



## dioxide45

m61376 said:


> Thanks. I assume that the option to convert a week that piper_chuck mentioned was obvious, or do I need to carefully scrutinize every page not to make an error and accidentally  convert to points?
> 
> I started to do it last night but was tired and didn't want to unintentionally deposit weeks. I guess part of me really is resisting this- hence the procrastination.



Electing points right after enrollment is not an option that I remember when we enrolled last year, so that must be new. Just read each page before you click confirm. I would think the option to elect points would be obvious.


----------



## juanitar

I think I am about to take the plunge and enroll. Not the best payback period for me given I only own one developer lock-off week and one non-marriott week.  I probably won't trade for points that often since I tend to lock-off and stay in my 1Bdr and trade the studio thru interval but I'm afraid to not enroll because I feel like I'm going to miss out on something - it's really that simple. Not the best reason, but the truth. I've watched these boards and tried to talk myself out of enrolling but that feeling in my gut tells me that I should go ahead and do it. I am more afraid of the regret I will have by not enrolling than by enrolling. 

Do you think Marriott will refund the lockoff fee I paid back in March if I enroll? Guess it's worth a try.


----------



## mjm1

Luckybee said:


> What I do find amazing, perhaps more sad then anything else is that the people selling these things still dont know there own product. I was told by the rep I spoke with that DC membership does not transfer on sale or death. Quite frankly I was too lazy to check it out myself  (But if they're giving out inaccurate info it could be costing them business if this was an important factor to someone)



The DC membership does transfer to your heir.  I even asked a manager about if my father in law who may not enroll his unit purchased directly from Marriott, when we inherit it could we enroll it.  I was told "yes" as the ownership rights transfer to a heir.  Of course we would have to pay the enrollment fee as it is at that time. If he does enroll his week, the DC membership would transfer to us.  He recently decided to enroll because the cost of $595 is easily offset by the plus points and the program gives him more flexibility with his week.


----------



## FractionalTraveler

juanitar said:


> I think I am about to take the plunge and enroll. Not the best payback period for me given I only own one developer lock-off week and one non-marriott week.  I probably won't trade for points that often since I tend to lock-off and stay in my 1Bdr and trade the studio thru interval but I'm afraid to not enroll because I feel like I'm going to miss out on something - it's really that simple. Not the best reason, but the truth. I've watched these boards and tried to talk myself out of enrolling but that feeling in my gut tells me that I should go ahead and do it. I am more afraid of the regret I will have by not enrolling than by enrolling.
> 
> Do you think Marriott will refund the lockoff fee I paid back in March if I enroll? Guess it's worth a try.



Your gut is very WISE. 

I bet 5 years from now you will look back and say I'm so glad I did.


----------



## bsohn

Just my 2 cents here but enrolling with the current rates (before they go sky high) is kind of a no brainer. 

Think about it II Membership costs you $90.00 or so a year and a trade is now up to $120.00 or so that makes just one trade a year more than the cost of the membership dues.

The 800 plus points that they give are usable 1 year from the date of enrollment and can be rented off. Granted there is a little issue with these points in that nothing quite equals 800 points so unless you deposit your week into points or possibly loose a few you will not actually be able to use all 800. These points would be easily rented for $400.00 or so..

After you are enrolled you are enrolled for life (including your heirs) or until you decide that you wish to cancel out (though I really don't see why). Once Enrolled you also never even need to convert any of your units to DC points ever.. There is no requirement to do so and you still have all your options as far as your weeks unit goes. But because you get II in your Club Dues you get the trades at no additional cost.

Now granted those that fall under the resale week upgrade (prior to the cutoff) have more to consider as Marriott is charging a lot more for that. 

Basically you are in the end only really spending about $300.00 or so for alot more options as far as trading..

Now for trading without DC enrollment...

One thing to consider as far as wanting to get back into a Marriott property in trade is the DC points system allows Marriott to keep as much of their inventory InHouse as possible. This means that less Marriott properties will make it out into II. Example (numbers not actual), Say 70% of weeks owners trade their properties every year to go somewhere else. Originally all these properties would go to II's general pool. Now say half of those 70% are enrolled in DC and choose to elect points, That means that 35% of what used to be deposited into interval is now out of reach to II users either Marriott or not. Those 35% DC point converted units will be available to those with DC points. So basically by not enrolling you are going to be more limited in your access to get to other properties within the Marriott system. 

Unfortunately I can tell you that more than likely most of the high end units in places like Hawaii are going to be enrolled and traded for destination points and therefore will not be available through II.. 

Our Family has a KoOlina 2BR OF Penthouse unit and for the points given we can get a few weeks at many other properties and almost 2 weeks in a OF 1BR at KoOlina which was much harder to do through II with the standard 2BR as the lock-off is an efficiency. It also makes sense for us to trade it for points rather than put it into interval if we are not using in. Also half of the year about we can actually trade back into the PH 2BR with a gain of 50 DC points.

Brion


----------



## divenski

*Expiration date for the 800 points*

Has anyone tried and been able to extend the expiration date for the 800 pts? I joined last year and the 1 yr date is coming up.


FYI, I joined with a developer Waiohai week, and am still debating about adding the resale Mountainside week, as I am not sure the $1495 is worth the benefits.


----------



## piper_chuck

divenski said:


> Has anyone tried and been able to extend the expiration date for the 800 pts? I joined last year and the 1 yr date is coming up.



See if you can work out a trade with someone who is getting points now and wants to use them soon.


----------



## vacationcrazy

dioxide45 said:


> We need to know how you have used your eligible week in the past and how you plan to use it in the future. Are you retired, close to retirement? There are a number of factors that we would base our advice on.



We have never stayed at Cypress Harbour. We have traded it in II. We have owned it almost 4 years now.  We probably will not be retiring for about five years unfortunately. In the future I wouldn't mind going to Orlando, but right now I do like trading for other places. I feel at least flights from CT to Orlando are not too expensive if we are unable to afford going other places once we retire.


----------



## JanT

Quick question.  I don't have time to do a search or otherwise I would.  If we joined, could we sell the 800 bonus points to someone else for their use?  They would expire within a year and there is no way we could use them before then.  If we can rent them, well.....we might take the plunge and join.


----------



## FractionalTraveler

JanT said:


> Quick question.  I don't have time to do a search or otherwise I would.  If we joined, could we sell the 800 bonus points to someone else for their use?  They would expire within a year and there is no way we could use them before then.  If we can rent them, well.....we might take the plunge and join.



Place your 800 points rental here:

http://vacationpointexchange.com/

Many other folks have done this already.  The site is great and run by other TUGGERS.

Good Luck


----------



## dioxide45

vacationcrazy said:


> I own one Marriott Platinum eligible resale week and one week at a non Marriott resort.  I do not see how the DC would be a benefit for me as I would have to maintain a II account anyway.  Could anyone please weigh in on my situation and give advice as to what to do.
> Thanks,





vacationcrazy said:


> We have never stayed at Cypress Harbour. We have traded it in II. We have owned it almost 4 years now.  We probably will not be retiring for about five years unfortunately. In the future I wouldn't mind going to Orlando, but right now I do like trading for other places. I feel at least flights from CT to Orlando are not too expensive if we are unable to afford going other places once we retire.



It seems that you only own one week at CH and you appear to own another week that you will have to maintain II membership for. So you will pay a $165 DC annual fee to only save $119 in exchange fees. So enrolling won't save you any money. You need to determine if that extra cost is worth the additional options you get under DC.



JanT said:


> Quick question.  I don't have time to do a search or otherwise I would.  If we joined, could we sell the 800 bonus points to someone else for their use?  They would expire within a year and there is no way we could use them before then.  If we can rent them, well.....we might take the plunge and join.



Just make sure you place your ad once you get the points, I have seen several listings of PlusPoints that are real close to expiration, I am guessing they probably went un-rented.


----------



## windje2000

JanT said:


> Quick question.  I don't have time to do a search or otherwise I would.  If we joined, could we sell the 800 bonus points to someone else for their use?  They would expire within a year and there is no way we could use them before then.  If we can rent them, well.....we might take the plunge and join.



Plus points are not transferable.  The occupancy you obtain for plus points can be rented.

http://tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=170326&highlight=pluspoints


----------



## JanT

Yes, I knew about the site and had visited it previously.  I just wasn't sure if I could "rent" them or whatever and didn't have time to really look.

Ok, one last question.  Can I make a reservation on line with the 800 points or would I have to call a Marriott DC rep for that?

Thank you everyone.  I'm working with a bit of a "handicap" right now and can't get time to look for answers.

J



FractionalTraveler said:


> Place your 800 points rental here:
> 
> http://vacationpointexchange.com/
> 
> Many other folks have done this already.  The site is great and run by other TUGGERS.
> 
> Good Luck


----------



## dioxide45

JanT said:


> Yes, I knew about the site and had visited it previously.  I just wasn't sure if I could "rent" them or whatever and didn't have time to really look.
> 
> Ok, one last question.  Can I make a reservation on line with the 800 points or would I have to call a Marriott DC rep for that?
> 
> Thank you everyone.  I'm working with a bit of a "handicap" right now and can't get time to look for answers.
> 
> J



You can make the reservation online now. I had 100 extra PlusPoints that I offered up on here for free to any takers. Making the reservation was quick and painless. I was even able to add the other persons name to the reservation when making it online. No need to call to even do that. They even got an e-mail directly from MVCI for the reservation since it permitted me to enter their e-mail address during the reservation process.


----------



## JanT

Thanks, Dioxide!  Now just to make that final decision......what to do, what to do.  I think we're going to pull the trigger even though we own an EOY, 1 BR resale ($1495 to join since it wasn't a resale through Marriott).  Alot of people say don't do it because we can't lock off, etc but we like to vacation for about 10 days at a time.  Having the flexibility to do that with points makes it a bit more appealing to us.  We can recoup some of the $1495 by renting the 800 plus points.  Makes it a little easier to swallow.  So....gotta talk to the hubby one last time and then I think we'll pull the trigger.


----------



## abg1688

I just took the plunge and enrolled, even though I am still not sure whether it is a good idea or not    But the question is when I will be notified to pay the $169 fee so I can use the new II account?


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## Ann in CA

We have never been billed for the annual fee, (only paid the enrollment fee) and the account is active. It has only been a bit over month, so someone in longer should know when they want the payment.


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## dioxide45

The annual fee is billed in Oct/Nov last year and was due December 10th. You won't have to pay anything until that time this year. You get a few months free.


----------



## korndoc

It is 1:00 AM and my eyes are blurred trying to read as many posts as possible to help make a decision regarding jointing the Points program. 

I have a couple thoughts and questions (please excuse me if these have been asked before):

1. A thought:  my Desert Springs Villas I only gets 3200 points, so I may not be able to get into the Marriott resorts I want to go to.  Yes, I can rent an additional 1500 points or so, but paying an extra $750 just seems wrong.

2. A  Question:  I have been splitting my weeks every year.   If using points, I guess you don't split your week, right?  Points are points.  So not only do I lose out with the skim and low point value compared to some of the areas I would prefer going to, I also go from 2 weeks of vacations through II to less than 1 week with the DC program. How is this a good thing?  

3. An observation:  While reading the first 3-4 pages of this thread I figured I would save money on the annual fees, so why not simply sign up for that reason and to be in the program should that be really necessary in the future.   But now I realize I may not be saving money.  My Desert Springs Villas is a lock-out unit.  Examples have shown I would save the annual II membership fee, the Marriott lock-off fee, and the 2 exchange fees.  But those exchange fees would only be saved if I trade into another Marriott.  Since I don’t always go to Marriott timeshares, I would not save enough during those years.   And as a resale purchaser, I will need to pay $1495 up front, so it will take that much longer to break even.  This is a much easier decision if I only had to pay $5-600 to sign up

Thanks, Jeff


----------



## m61376

puckmanfl said:


> good morning
> 
> m6  just do it... you can't possibly convert your week to points accidentally.... enrolling just gives you the option!!!!
> 
> you'll feel better!!!!



ok- so why do I only feel $1995 poorer?  
Oh- but I do get some MR points for using my Visa  

The process was simple and almost instantaneous. I figured the website may crawl later today and tomorrow, so I'd just, as you said, do it already, but I'm not so sure it wasn't just throwing out a couple of grand. Oh well...time will tell if it was the right decision, but I feel more comfortable that whatever Marriott ultimately has in the works I'll be sitting on the "right" side of the fence. 

Maybe I'll get some good ideas from the other thread and put the 800 plus points to good use.


----------



## FractionalTraveler

m61376 said:


> ok- so why do I only feel $1995 poorer?
> Oh- but I do get some MR points for using my Visa
> 
> The process was simple and almost instantaneous. I figured the website may crawl later today and tomorrow, so I'd just, as you said, do it already, but I'm not so sure it wasn't just throwing out a couple of grand. Oh well...time will tell if it was the right decision, but I feel more comfortable that whatever Marriott ultimately has in the works I'll be sitting on the "right" side of the fence.
> 
> Maybe I'll get some good ideas from the other thread and put the 800 plus points to good use.



Rent the points and get some of your money back.  You will feel better.


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## puckmanfl

good morning....

m6

just think about all the money you saved by purchasing resale....

enjoy!!!!


----------



## klpca

korndoc said:


> It is 1:00 AM and my eyes are blurred trying to read as many posts as possible to help make a decision regarding jointing the Points program.
> 
> I have a couple thoughts and questions (please excuse me if these have been asked before):
> 
> 1. A thought:  my Desert Springs Villas I only gets 3200 points, so I may not be able to get into the Marriott resorts I want to go to.  Yes, I can rent an additional 1500 points or so, but paying an extra $750 just seems wrong.
> 
> 2. A  Question:  I have been splitting my weeks every year.   If using points, I guess you don't split your week, right?  Points are points.  So not only do I lose out with the skim and low point value compared to some of the areas I would prefer going to, I also go from 2 weeks of vacations through II to less than 1 week with the DC program. How is this a good thing?
> 
> 3. An observation:  While reading the first 3-4 pages of this thread I figured I would save money on the annual fees, so why not simply sign up for that reason and to be in the program should that be really necessary in the future.   But now I realize I may not be saving money.  My Desert Springs Villas is a lock-out unit.  Examples have shown I would save the annual II membership fee, the Marriott lock-off fee, and the 2 exchange fees.  But those exchange fees would only be saved if I trade into another Marriott.  Since I don’t always go to Marriott timeshares, I would not save enough during those years.   And as a resale purchaser, I will need to pay $1495 up front, so it will take that much longer to break even.  This is a much easier decision if I only had to pay $5-600 to sign up
> 
> Thanks, Jeff



Honestly Jeff, I'm at the same place as you. I'm worried that I'm being short sighted with respect to the new program, but I can't make the numbers work no matter how hard I try. We have other timeshares so we'll still have to pay the II fee, so no savings there. We plan to stay in our DSV unit at least every other year so only partial savings there. I keep forgetting about the exchange fee being only on our Marriott trades (I try to keep it Marriott to Marriott though), but the Marriott is our only 2 bedroom in II, so sometimes that's the unit I need to use to get the trade. If we weren't resale and we were talking $600, I'd pull the trigger, But with the higher amount, the break even point is more like 7 - 10 years. 

If we use it to trade every other year (our current planned usage) our trading costs for the two years would be: $80 (L/O fee), plus two Marriott trading fees $129 + $129. No II account savings since we have to keep our account open for our other timeshares. So a total cost of $338. Program fees for those two years is $165+$165, total $8 net out of pocket, plus the enrollment fee of $1495. Less whatever the value is of 800 points. Obviously at this point the joining fee is just a sunk cost to stay in the program. If we were to exchange every year, the net numbers would be $338 less $165, or a net savings of $173 each year. In the neighborhood of an 8 year break even, less depending on the value of the 800 points. I'm underwhelmed by the value for our particular situation. (and don't even get me started on the skim, lol).

For anyone who is still reading at this point, did I miss anything in my analysis?


----------



## FractionalTraveler

klpca said:


> Honestly Jeff, I'm at the same place as you. I'm worried that I'm being short sighted with respect to the new program, but I can't make the numbers work no matter how hard I try. We have other timeshares so we'll still have to pay the II fee, so no savings there. We plan to stay in our DSV unit at least every other year so only partial savings there. I keep forgetting about the exchange fee being only on our Marriott trades (I try to keep it Marriott to Marriott though), but the Marriott is our only 2 bedroom in II, so sometimes that's the unit I need to use to get the trade. If we weren't resale and we were talking $600, I'd pull the trigger, But with the higher amount, the break even point is more like 7 - 10 years.
> 
> If we use it to trade every other year (our current planned usage) our trading costs for the two years would be: $80 (L/O fee), plus two Marriott trading fees $129 + $129. No II account savings since we have to keep our account open for our other timeshares. So a total cost of $338. Program fees for those two years is $165+$165, total $8 net out of pocket, plus the enrollment fee of $1495. Less whatever the value is of 800 points. Obviously at this point the joining fee is just a sunk cost to stay in the program. If we were to exchange every year, the net numbers would be $338 less $165, or a net savings of $173 each year. In the neighborhood of an 8 year break even, less depending on the value of the 800 points. I'm underwhelmed by the value for our particular situation. (and don't even get me started on the skim, lol).
> 
> For anyone who is still reading at this point, did I miss anything in my analysis?



Understanding your current usage scenarios and applying it to any potential Financial RIO for joining is a great way to begin looking at it.

One thing that IMHO many posters fail to consider in their assessment beyond the numbers is the potential value of the DC program enhancements that will come over time.

This really matters for those who seek ultimate FLEXABILITY and additional vacation OPTIONS.

Since the DC program is not mandatory, it really comes down to paying for the added flex and usage options.  If you are happy with what you own and vacation the same way year after year then the existing program is great.  But if you are interested in MORE than that, you may want to consider joining for that purpose alone.


----------



## SueDonJ

klpca said:


> ... For anyone who is still reading at this point, did I miss anything in my analysis?



I don't think so, in both yours and korndoc's situation.  Sometimes enrollment just doesn't make much sense and you both seem to be in those shoes.  Unless you're ignoring a gut feeling that's telling you that you don't want to let this pricing deadline go by without acting, then it's perfectly understandable for both of you to not enroll your Weeks.

Maybe it will ease your decision if you think of it like this - the coming price increase affects direct purchasers much more than it does resale purchasers.  If an Owner of a single direct purchase Week doesn't enroll before the deadline and then changes his/her mind after, the enrollment price takes a huge jump from $595 to $2395.  But if either of you should change your mind later, your jump is "only" from $1495 to $2395.  Right, it's $900 and that's not chump change, but it's a little bit more palatable than the $1800 for a direct purchaser, isn't it?  Plus you'll only suffer it if somewhere down the line you see a benefit to enrollment that you're just not seeing now - and you are no doubt as informed as you can possibly be about the whole shebang.

Is there a risk that some things will change later and you'll wish that you had acted, well sure.  But there have been risks all along that changes could be made to Marriott Weeks usage/costs, and we've all accepted those risks throughout the years while being perfectly happy with our vacations.  I don't see any blatant foreshadowing that informed folks who continue on with Weeks usage outside the DC will be made unhappy.


----------



## klpca

FractionalTraveler said:


> One thing that IMHO many posters fail to consider in their assessment beyond the numbers is the potential value of the DC program enhancements that will come over time.
> 
> This really matters for those who seek ultimate FLEXABILITY and additional vacation OPTIONS.


This is in reference to the point system? Our week is almost worthless in the point system unfortunately (2100 points) so I can't see us getting much value in this scenario. Our week is a case of it being worth more to us than to the DC. For us it is a quick drive-to location, and our weeks are fall weeks, which is when we can get away from work. We can lockoff, or split into 3/4 day reservations. It works for us. But i can see this having a lot of appeal for multi-week owners at high point value resorts.



SueDonJ said:


> Maybe it will ease your decision if you think of it like this - the coming price increase affects direct purchasers much more than it does resale purchasers.  If an Owner of a single direct purchase Week doesn't enroll before the deadline and then changes his/her mind after, the enrollment price takes a huge jump from $595 to $2395.  But if either of you should change your mind later, your jump is "only" from $1495 to $2395.  Right, it's $900 and that's not chump change, but it's a little bit more palatable than the $1800 for a direct purchaser, isn't it?  Plus you'll only suffer it if somewhere down the line you see a benefit to enrollment that you're just not seeing now - and you are no doubt as informed as you can possibly be about the whole shebang.



Interesting perspective Sue. Thanks for taking the time to comment. I'm ok with our decision. We'll have to wait to see if it was the correct one.


----------



## Cmore

Klpca,
You've already received very good advice so I won't add to that.  Rather, I would point out that just because there is this "supposed" deadline doesn't mean it is a never again, deal.  I can think of many situations whereby Marriott MAY (not will) come up with some limited time offers to goose enrollment, or will allow for the purchase of "x" points the ability to enroll, etc.  Fact is, a deadline gets people to act, then a limited time offer gets a few more off the fence, etc.   These are all very common marketing tactics that get applied in different industries, over and over again.  

Given your, korndoc's and many others current usage, single weeks status, etc. not enrolling isn't the end of the world.   I enrolled and am very happy with the extra options as they fit our needs better at this time.   I say, enjoy your week, and keep an eye out for other offers to enroll.  Who knows at some point you might be in the market for an additional week and the option, if available, will be more appealing then.

I wish you many happy vacations !


----------



## David10225

Swore I would never do it...but with my one little resale week I bit the bullet and enrolled...


----------



## JanT

I am ready to hang myself.....sitting on the fence, not sure whether to pull the trigger and join.  I've never said we wouldn't join but I can't make the numbers work either.  We own a 1 BR Grand Chateau EOY week.  We get 2200 points for it - 1100 each year.  We use the week to trade (M to M, and to non-Marriotts as well).  We have other weeks (2 others that are ineligible to join - why or why didn't I put the other week in when the "loophole" was there?) and SDO and Hyatt.  So, I have to have 2 different II accounts anyway.  So, no cost savings there.  Yes, M to M trading fees are zero so some savings there but eaten up with the $165 fee for DC.  

The only two positives I see are that we can use these points to extend our stays to 10 days or so - which we like to do.  The other is to trade every fourth year for reward points (for some people it's not worth it but it might for us).  Enough of an incentive to join?????  I just don't know.  For $1495, man it just doesn't see like it's worth it.  I can offset some of the cost by renting out the 800 plus points because we absolutely cannot use them before their expiration.  

Oh!  One question, if I choose points the week, I have to pay the .40 per point for MF's instead of the normal MF, correct?

HELP!!!!!!!!  I'm trusting my TUGGER friends that know this system inside/out.  Puck??  Dioxide??  SueDon??  Help a TUGGER buddy out here!

Jan


----------



## dioxide45

JanT said:


> Oh!  One question, if I choose points the week, I have to pay the .40 per point for MF's instead of the normal MF, correct?



Incorrect, nothing changes with your MFs, you pay your regular fees on your week every year. The $0.41 pp MF is for trust point owners only. You are a legacy owner.


----------



## dioxide45

JanT said:


> I am ready to hang myself.....sitting on the fence, not sure whether to pull the trigger and join.  I've never said we wouldn't join but I can't make the numbers work either.  We own a 1 BR Grand Chateau EOY week.  We get 2200 points for it - 1100 each year.  We use the week to trade (M to M, and to non-Marriotts as well).  We have other weeks (2 others that are ineligible to join - why or why didn't I put the other week in when the "loophole" was there?) and SDO and Hyatt.  So, I have to have 2 different II accounts anyway.  So, no cost savings there.  Yes, M to M trading fees are zero so some savings there but eaten up with the $165 fee for DC.
> 
> The only two positives I see are that we can use these points to extend our stays to 10 days or so - which we like to do.  The other is to trade every fourth year for reward points (for some people it's not worth it but it might for us).  Enough of an incentive to join?????  I just don't know.  For $1495, man it just doesn't see like it's worth it.  I can offset some of the cost by renting out the 800 plus points because we absolutely cannot use them before their expiration.
> 
> Oh!  One question, if I choose points the week, I have to pay the .40 per point for MF's instead of the normal MF, correct?
> 
> HELP!!!!!!!!  I'm trusting my TUGGER friends that know this system inside/out.  Puck??  Dioxide??  SueDon??  Help a TUGGER buddy out here!
> 
> Jan



It is tough. Enrolling saves you $12 a year if you enroll. That is because if you lock off and trade both units M to M, you will save the $80 lock off fee and the two $119 exchange fees. You will still have to pay the $165 every year even with your EOY week.

So it will take a loooooong time to pay recoup that $1495 enrollment fee at only $12 a year (over a century ), and that is considering that you never use your home week or trade outside the Marriott system.

So it comes down to the other options. Are they worth the $1495 enrollment fee? Only you can really decide that.

BTW, you actually get 2200 points EOY, not 1100 EY. Though you can get 1100 EY by banking or borrowing. Though you can get more or less than that if you need them.


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## ilene13

*I drank the Koolaid*

Okay, so although I drink a lot of diet pepsi, I just swallowed and drank the Marriott koolaid.  I just enrolled our 4 weeks and here are my reasons.

It absolutely DOES NOT SAVE us any money.  It actually costs us more as we need a 2nd II account for our Royal Resort weeks.  

My husband and I are planning on retiring to Florida in the next few years.  If this move comes to fruition we may not want to go to HH and Aruba during the seasons we own.  So the DC points would give us options to go to our favorite resorts at different times.  Also if we are living in a warm climate maybe we'll use the points one year and go on some of the explorer trips.

Therefore, I bit the bullet and had the koolaid to give us more options.  But I just want to add that my credit card has been sitting next to my computer for a week and I just got up the nerve to do it!!!!!  I hope I made a good decision--only time will tell.


----------



## JanT

Dioxide,

It's a 1 BR so no lock off savings.  I would save the exchange fee as long as it's M to M.

Hmmmm about how the points are allocated - the rep I talked to said we would get 1100 per year, not 2200 EOY.  Hey, it's fine if we get 2200 every year - better actually.  I thought they were going to force me to take 1100 EY.  I knew we could bank or borrow if we wanted to.  

Also, thanks for the clarification on MFs.  I just have not educated myself enough on the new system.  I had no intention of joining so didn't worry about it.  But, like some people now that we're down to the wire, I'm thinking maybe we will.  

My husband just looks at me with a blank stare for the most part when I talk to him about it.  It's like, you want me to make a decision NOW when I don't deal with the timeshare stuff.  He enjoys the vacation but enjoys me doing all the planning.    

Oh well.....guess I'll have to decide soon.  There is NO way I'm going to pay $2395 after 14 June.  That would be CRAZY upon CRAZY!  Well, in my opinion.

Thanks again!

J



dioxide45 said:


> It is tough. Enrolling saves you $12 a year if you enroll. That is because if you lock off and trade both units M to M, you will save the $80 lock off fee and the two $119 exchange fees. You will still have to pay the $165 every year even with your EOY week.
> 
> So it will take a loooooong time to pay recoup that $1495 enrollment fee at only $12 a year (over a century ), and that is considering that you never use your home week or trade outside the Marriott system.
> 
> So it comes down to the other options. Are they worth the $1495 enrollment fee? Only you can really decide that.
> 
> BTW, you actually get 2200 points EOY, not 1100 EY. Though you can get 1100 EY by banking or borrowing. Though you can get more or less than that if you need them.


----------



## Cmore

JanT,
The points are given in the year of your use for EOY's (2200, then zero, then 2200, etc.) Looking at your resorts, could you not enroll your other weeks - 2nd one at Grand Chateau and KBC ?  This would give you more points if you ever decided to go that way, and you retain all your normal weeks based options.


----------



## dioxide45

Cmore said:


> JanT,
> The points are given in the year of your use for EOY's (2200, then zero, then 2200, etc.) Looking at your resorts, could you not enroll your other weeks - 2nd one at Grand Chateau and KBC ?  This would give you more points if you ever decided to go that way, and you retain all your normal weeks based options.



The other weeks were purchased post 6/20/2010, so they are not eligible for enrollment.


----------



## Cmore

dioxide45 said:


> The other weeks were purchased post 6/20/2010, so they are not eligible for enrollment.



Thx, that explains it, didn't read back to see if that was mentioned, just noticed the other resorts listed.


----------



## JanT

Cmore,

Yes, the other two weeks were post 6/20 purchases.  I could have enrolled the Kauai week when the "loophole" was in the Marriott system and would have allowed me to even when it wasn't eligible.  I just felt that wasn't honest (for me and me ONLY - no judgment on anyone else who did).  Looking back, I say, "Would it really have mattered if I did enrolled it?"  But, I know I did the right thing - again, for me and me ONLY.

Anyway, if I could put all three into the points system, I would.  But, not an option.  At least at this point.  Which is another thing I wonder about.  If I put the one week in, perhaps later they will allow the other two weeks in?  Who knows????

Anyway, still kicking it around and will post here what I decide to do.

J


----------



## Cmore

JanT,
I admire your honesty, makes it easy to look in the mirror when you try to do the right thing in your dealings with others.   My guess is you'll find yourself with a "special limited time opportunity"  :rofl:  to enroll your other weeks in the not too distant future.   

The DC seems to be doing better than many expected in selling points, but given the huge amount of weeks owners, I cannot beleive they won't make attempts to bring more weeks owners into the system.  Especially those with some weeks in and some out.  Time will tell, but I sure wouldn't bet against you getting another bite of the apple.   Good Luck !


----------



## korndoc

Duplicate, sorry


----------



## korndoc

dioxide45 said:


> if you lock off and trade both units M to M, you will save the $80 lock off fee and the two $119 exchange fees.



I am still confused regarding the lock-off.   Why would I lock off if I am staying with points?  My total doesn't change, so what's the point?  I can see locking off when thinking of trading with II.  If I were to do so, could I later change my mind and "rejoin" my 2 units to get the 3200 points?  Would Marriott assign a portion of my total points to the studio and 1 bedroom?  

Thank you SudDonJ, Cmore, Klpca and FractionalTraveler for your thoughts. 

It's crazy.  I decided long ago this was not worth it and I would not spend $1500 for it, but nobody, including me, wants to be left out of something of potential value.   The value I see is being able to get into a Marriott resort in the future.  I do not expect any to be available real soon if I stay as a weeks only member.  And if I do join, my current 2 week vacations will be reduced to 75% of one week if I do go to a Marriott.  Makes no sense to join, and yet......   With 3225 points, isn't this scenario correct?  Can I really ever hope to trade to a Marriott and have 2 full weeks of vacations?

Jeff


----------



## dioxide45

korndoc said:


> I am still confused regarding the lock-off.   Why would I lock off if I am staying with points?  My total doesn't change, so what's the point?  I can see locking off when thinking of trading with II.  If I were to do so, could I later change my mind and "rejoin" my 2 units to get the 3200 points?  Would Marriott assign a portion of my total points to the studio and 1 bedroom?



The locking off that I am speaking of is only for saving fees when trading through II as an enrolled owner. By enrolling, one would save on the lock off fee through Marriott and would save on any exchange fees through II. If you instead opt to elect points then you can't lock off or just use part of your unit for points. You must convert the entire week to points in return for the full value of points assigned to it.


----------



## klpca

korndoc said:


> I am still confused regarding the lock-off.   Why would I lock off if I am staying with points?
> 
> Jeff



This may be stating the obvious, but keep in mind that you can still use your enrolled week as a "week", and only use the points if you choose to do so (hence the flexibility of the DC). I personally think that I can get more value out of locking off and trading it in II than using the points that are allocated to our resort.


----------



## Cmore

Korndoc,
The key with the DC is that you can use either the points system or the weeks system.  Personally, I have kept some weeks in II and also had DC points.  So I use points when that is to my advantage such as locations/seasons that are less points, short stays, or adding points days to a weeks reservation.

There are uses for both systems depending on what you want to do and how long you want to be gone.  If you really look at the points charts many times the shoulder or off season trades are good value via points, especially the Sun - Thurs points. Everyone has different needs and desires, For the first time I am considering being all in DC points in 2013 and not having a week in in II.  I just used my last two II deposits and have to make a decision in the next couple weeks as the 2013 points deadline is the end of the month.  Personally, I have always had good luck via II, so it's not an issue with them, just a matter of the DC being so easy so far and my likely travels are not point killers.  At the end of the day, I guess I value ease of use and flexibility more than getting absolutely the most value out of my time.  I don't intend to get beat up, so it's not like will recklessly throw points away, but I am not agonizing over a few hundred here or there as long as I got what I wanted.


----------



## korndoc

Thanks for explaining the flexibility angle to all this.  Much easier when you have several resorts rather than only one like I own.  Hard to "add on" when you already used your week for a full week vacation.

Please explain about the upcoming deadline.  You need to decide* soon *about your 2013 points?   If you convert now, do they expire at the end of 2013 if not used?

I am going to call Marriott now.  Some posters have said they were very helpful for making this decision.   If I have time, I may call II to see their take.

Thanks, 
Jeff


----------



## Topfuelweb

*Maui EOY*



Cmore said:


> JanT,
> The points are given in the year of your use for EOY's (2200, then zero, then 2200, etc.) Looking at your resorts, could you not enroll your other weeks - 2nd one at Grand Chateau and KBC ?  This would give you more points if you ever decided to go that way, and you retain all your normal weeks based options.



We own 2 Plat weeks EOY at Maui Ocean club on even years which are worth 5850 points for a total of 11700 points. When we bought the weeks we had no kids, now we have a 6 and 8 yr old so our travel pans/needs have changed and on the surface I like flexibility that points offer us as well having a fair amount of points gives us decent opportunities to take more vacations outside of Hawaii. I have a few question/concerns. I read that we can bank points, but there is a use or lose them clause, so we must bank them 6 months in advance of the expiry date and use them no later than 12 months after....did I get that right?? So for my 2014 weeks they would expire Dec 31 2014, so the latest I could book something would be June30 2014 ( and bank any leftover points for 2015 travel) and the earliest would be Jan 2013 for Jan 2014 travel? ....correct?? Second if I want to trade outside of Marriott, how do the points work through II, for example if I book into Vistana Villages in Orlando for a few nights, do they have assigned point values? I would really appreciate any comments as I think I understand things but it gets a bit confusing.

I do have one question with respect to AC's, can they be used by a family member if the owner is not there? We would like to send my in laws on a trip.

Thanks in advance for your help.


----------



## GregT

All,

There have been several posters who own a single week, or a week that doesn't lock-off, and are debating the merits of enrolling.  I hope my rationale may be useful?

I enrolled, and I enrolled early.  I don't expect to redeem my weeks for points and I do not trade my weeks within II.  Therefore, what's the benefit to me?

Renting points to/from other owners is the answer -- renting points is extremely powerful.   This reduces the pressure on you to buy more Marriott weeks (or Trust Points, until they introduce features that are unique to TPs -- and then rent those).  Or you can rent points needed to extend your existing legacy week reservation for a partial week.  

You can rent the exact number of points you need -- you have cancelation protection if your plans change (cancel 61+ days without penalty) -- and current rental costs -- at $0.50 - $0.65 per point -- aren't that much higher than MFs associated with actually owning another week.

The other benefit to you is if you own another system or timeshare that is attractive to Marriott owners (Starwood, HGVC, Hyatt, Disney, Windjammer, the Crane).  You can generate Marriott points by booking your other week on behalf of the Marriott owner (and getting their DC points).

The ability to transfer points is very very powerful.   I hope this is helpful?

All the best,

Greg


----------



## jont

GregT said:


> All,
> 
> 
> 
> Renting points to/from other owners is the answer -- renting points is extremely powerful.   This reduces the pressure on you to buy more Marriott weeks (or Trust Points, until they introduce features that are unique to TPs -- and then rent those).  Or you can rent points needed to extend your existing legacy week reservation for a partial week.
> 
> You can rent the exact number of points you need -- you have cancelation protection if your plans change (cancel 61+ days without penalty) -- and current rental costs -- at $0.50 - $0.65 per point -- aren't that much higher than MFs associated with actually owning another week.
> 
> 
> 
> All the best,
> 
> Greg



Exactly!  Well said Greg


----------



## TheTimeTraveler

jont said:


> Exactly!  Well said Greg






Welcome back JonT..... haven't seen you post since early in the year.





.


----------



## jont

Thanks, been lurking off and on. Haven't had too much to say.


----------



## Numismatist

Just registering my opinion before the deadline:

I did NOT enroll.  I have developer week from Frenchman's Cove, and at 2775 points it is not enough to trade anywhere I personally would consider comparable.  I'm a bit miffed at the low point rating of MFC as compared to other similar locations.  I guess MFC is an acquired taste!

Anyway, I didn't want to get into the 'just buy some more points' game...


----------



## Cmore

korndoc said:


> Thanks for explaining the flexibility angle to all this.  Much easier when you have several resorts rather than only one like I own.  Hard to "add on" when you already used your week for a full week vacation.
> 
> Please explain about the upcoming deadline.  You need to decide* soon *about your 2013 points?   If you convert now, do they expire at the end of 2013 if not used?
> 
> I am going to call Marriott now.  Some posters have said they were very helpful for making this decision.   If I have time, I may call II to see their take.
> 
> Thanks,
> Jeff



Let me clarify,  I have quite a few 2012 points remaining and the deadline to bank them into 2013 is the end of the month, so if I bank them that would probably impact my decision to take all points for 2013.  I'd have to look it up, but if I remember correctly, the deadline to elect DC points for 2013 is the end of September.  So that decision doesn't have to made right now.  I keep an eye on if prime TDI weeks (Interval Int'l) are still plentiful and right now they are so I don't have any immediate pressure to book time at my home resorts and then deposit with II.  I deposit early when I go with II, but my resorts are not like some where I have to be on the phone 12 or 13 months to the day to get a high TDI reservation.


----------



## windje2000

GregT said:


> All,
> 
> There have been several posters who own a single week, or a week that doesn't lock-off, and are debating the merits of enrolling.  I hope my rationale may be useful?
> 
> I enrolled, and I enrolled early.  I don't expect to redeem my weeks for points and I do not trade my weeks within II.  Therefore, what's the benefit to me?
> 
> Renting points to/from other owners is the answer -- renting points is extremely powerful.   This reduces the pressure on you to buy more Marriott weeks (or Trust Points, until they introduce features that are unique to TPs -- and then rent those).  Or you can rent points needed to extend your existing legacy week reservation for a partial week.
> 
> You can rent the exact number of points you need -- you have cancelation protection if your plans change (cancel 61+ days without penalty) -- and current rental costs -- at $0.50 - $0.65 per point -- aren't that much higher than MFs associated with actually owning another week.
> 
> The other benefit to you is if you own another system or timeshare that is attractive to Marriott owners (Starwood, HGVC, Hyatt, Disney, Windjammer, the Crane).  You can generate Marriott points by booking your other week on behalf of the Marriott owner (and getting their DC points).
> 
> The ability to transfer points is very very powerful.   I hope this is helpful?
> 
> All the best,
> 
> Greg



Well stated.  The 'options' within DC have value.


----------



## m61376

ilene13 said:


> Okay, so although I drink a lot of diet pepsi, I just swallowed and drank the Marriott koolaid.  I just enrolled our 4 weeks and here are my reasons.
> 
> It absolutely DOES NOT SAVE us any money.  It actually costs us more as we need a 2nd II account for our Royal Resort weeks.
> 
> My husband and I are planning on retiring to Florida in the next few years.  If this move comes to fruition we may not want to go to HH and Aruba during the seasons we own.  So the DC points would give us options to go to our favorite resorts at different times.  Also if we are living in a warm climate maybe we'll use the points one year and go on some of the explorer trips.
> 
> Therefore, I bit the bullet and had the koolaid to give us more options.  But I just want to add that my credit card has been sitting next to my computer for a week and I just got up the nerve to do it!!!!!  I hope I made a good decision--only time will tell.


I had to laugh when I read your post. I too enrolled yesterday morning- after opening the screen on and off and refusing to bite the bullet. I'm not quite sure why I did either, except for the nudging thought that Marriott might make further changes down the road and it might be worth to grab the opportunity to enroll in case they roll up the welcome mat for resale owners at some future point.


----------



## dioxide45

*Tomorrow is the last day!*

The price goes up on June 14th, so you have to be enrolled by tomorrow the 13th to get the current pricing and incentives.

It will be interesting to see if they change the 800 PlusPoint bonus.


----------



## FractionalTraveler

You can actually get quite a few more Plus Points and other incentives than the standard 800 for joining if you make use of the FriendShare Program.


----------



## RandR

*Reluctantly joining*

GregT, your point about being able to rent points is one of the bigger reasons that may get me to join the program.  Makes things flexible if I just want to add a few days to a trip.  The payback for me is likely to be almost 7 years.  (Assuming Marriott doesn't jack up the $165/yr fee.)  It also will help me with trading earlier.  The last few years I have traded the 1 BD side of my MGV for a 2bd Surf Club.  This year I couldn't get the trade until the airfare was crazy expensive.  Now I can just trade for a 1 bd and then as it gets closer switch to a 2 bd without paying an extra fee.  That will also make airfare cheaper (or actually less AMEX points) shortening my payback time.  I will never trade for points as MGV doesn't give me many.

Just to check, has anyone gotten an XYZ week while using the new system?


----------



## dioxide45

One other important benefit to the II exchange fees being included. You get a free cancellation, one time, of all II exchanges. Retrades are also free, you can retrade one time with each exchange. So if you are going to resort ABC and you see only a studio today but want to book airfare, you can book the smaller unit and keep checking with another week you may have (or a fake reservation). If you see a better unit show up, call II and execute the reexchange. Additional savings! Just note, once the retrade is done, any further cancellation will result in the loss of the week.


----------



## JanT

Well, I did it - I enrolled our lone week that was eligible.  Ultimately, it was the info provided by Greg and Dioxide that helped me make the decision to just push the darned button.  Thanks to both of them for helping me see that there are some good benefits for enrolling our week.

So, as soon as I see our 800 plus points, I'll put them up for rent and recoup some of the $1495 it cost to join.  Takes away a bit of the sting.

Thanks to all for answering my questions!

Jan


----------



## korndoc

RandR said:


> Now I can just trade for a 1 bd and then as it gets closer switch to a 2 bd without paying an extra fee.... I will never trade for points as MGV doesn't give me many.




Not sure about this, but if you are getting your trade through II and not Marriott points, then won't trading cost you an II fee (kiss off those 7 years for ROI) and you then won't you have a fee to switch?

Jeff


----------



## gblotter

GregT said:


> Renting points to/from other owners is the answer -- renting points is extremely powerful.   This reduces the pressure on you to buy more Marriott weeks (or Trust Points, until they introduce features that are unique to TPs -- and then rent those).  Or you can rent points needed to extend your existing legacy week reservation for a partial week.
> 
> You can rent the exact number of points you need -- you have cancelation protection if your plans change (cancel 61+ days without penalty) -- and current rental costs -- at $0.50 - $0.65 per point -- aren't that much higher than MFs associated with actually owning another week.
> 
> The ability to transfer points is very very powerful.


Agreed.

I just hope that Marriott doesn't take away this tremendous benefit.

And I am very grateful for GregT's website which provides a marketplace for the transfer of points as described.  It has already proven helpful to me, and I only recently enrolled in the DC.


----------



## RandR

korndoc said:


> Not sure about this, but if you are getting your trade through II and not Marriott points, then won't trading cost you an II fee (kiss off those 7 years for ROI) and you then won't you have a fee to switch?
> 
> Jeff



It would cost me an II fee if I do not join the DC.  It is my understanding that when you are a member of the DC, the change fee would be included in my $165/yr DC fee.

Can someone confirm that I understand this correctly?  

Thanks


----------



## Cmore

Topfuelweb said:


> I have a few question/concerns. I read that we can bank points, but there is a use or lose them clause, so we must bank them 6 months in advance of the expiry date and use them no later than 12 months after....did I get that right?? So for my 2014 weeks they would expire Dec 31 2014, so the latest I could book something would be June30 2014 ( and bank any leftover points for 2015 travel) and the earliest would be Jan 2013 for Jan 2014 travel? ....correct?? Second if I want to trade outside of Marriott, how do the points work through II, for example if I book into Vistana Villages in Orlando for a few nights, do they have assigned point values? I would really appreciate any comments as I think I understand things but it gets a bit confusing.
> 
> I do have one question with respect to AC's, can they be used by a family member if the owner is not there? We would like to send my in laws on a trip.
> Thanks in advance for your help.



TopFuel,
As to banking, my understanding and the Marriott website state that most "enrolled owners" are on a calendar based use year (Jan 1 - Dec 31).  Banking cut off is 6 mo's prior to end of use year - therefore The June 30th deadline for banking 2012 points into 2013.   The website further states that the points are available for the following "use year" .   I have not called Marriott, but it seems clear from their verbiage that the banked points are usable for then entire year, not 12 mo's from banking.  They should expire 12/31 of the year following, so 12/31/13. For 2012 points.

As to your other point, I don't have access to the II book at present as I am out of town, but I don't remember being able to book partial week stays to non MVCI resorts via DC points.  You can trade a full week for "x" DC points based on a grid that uses unit size and TDI to determine how many DC are required.   An enrolled owner can also just deposit their unit to II for trading, and not elect points.  If doing this and you upgrade your II membership you can then elect the short stay option to get stays of 1-6 days.  You get 2 short stays forveach deposit.  Hope this helps, and anyone can add on or correct my statements if I have mis stated anything.  I believe I have it right.


----------



## RandR

I just joined and it was painful to hit the pay button.


----------



## dioxide45

RandR said:


> It would cost me an II fee if I do not join the DC.  It is my understanding that when you are a member of the DC, the change fee would be included in my $165/yr DC fee.
> 
> Can someone confirm that I understand this correctly?
> 
> Thanks



You are understanding correctly.


----------



## SDMiller

*Marriott's posting of new VC membership fees on June 15??*

Will be watching the Marriott website on June 15 to see what the new fees to join are or if there will be another "extension".  Wish I could get my husband to join - we own 5 Marriott weeks, we would be classisfied as Premier status.  Just can't get him to "drink the Kool-Aid".  

SD


----------



## dioxide45

SDMiller said:


> Will be watching the Marriott website on June 15 to see what the new fees to join are or if there will be another "extension".  Wish I could get my husband to join - we own 5 Marriott weeks, we would be classisfied as Premier status.  Just can't get him to "drink the Kool-Aid".
> 
> SD



With five weeks, I wouldn't think there would be any koolaide to drink. The decision is easy


----------



## TheTimeTraveler

SDMiller said:


> Will be watching the Marriott website on June 15 to see what the new fees to join are or if there will be another "extension".  Wish I could get my husband to join - we own 5 Marriott weeks, we would be classisfied as Premier status.  Just can't get him to "drink the Kool-Aid".
> 
> SD






I think you should seriously consider joining.  This means you'll be able to always make reservations at 13 months using the DC Pointe route (that is if you're not going to use your home resort weeks).

You know it won't be costing less in a day or two, just the opposite......





.


----------



## TheTimeTraveler

SDMiller said:


> Will be watching the Marriott website on June 15 to see what the new fees to join are or if there will be another "extension".  Wish I could get my husband to join - we own 5 Marriott weeks, we would be classisfied as Premier status.  Just can't get him to "drink the Kool-Aid".
> 
> SD






I think you should seriously consider joining.  This means you'll be able to always make reservations at 13 months using the DC Pointe route (that is if you're not going to use your home resort weeks).

You know it won't be costing less in a day or two, just the opposite...... 





.


----------



## markhs

I too am struggling but leaning toward not joining.  I have an EOY 3bdrm lock off at Ko Olina.  I don't think we will use short stays.  We haven't found II very usefull, in fact were planning on not joining again next year (never really got what we want).  We would just book within the Marriott system. Enrolling means higher fees, especially for EOY folks without much benefit for us.  I'll probably go around and round until the deadline expires.  After that there is no way I'd join at the higher enrollment fee.


----------



## SueDonJ

korndoc said:


> Not sure about this, but if you are getting your trade through II and not Marriott points, then won't trading cost you an II fee (kiss off those 7 years for ROI) and you then won't you have a fee to switch?
> 
> Jeff





RandR said:


> It would cost me an II fee if I do not join the DC.  It is my understanding that when you are a member of the DC, the change fee would be included in my $165/yr DC fee.
> 
> Can someone confirm that I understand this correctly?
> 
> Thanks



I'd say you understand correctly, yes.  (There have been several posts lately from Korndoc which make it appear that he is confused about the DC/II transactions and fees, but not from you.)


----------



## Ann in CA

SDMiller said:


> Will be watching the Marriott website on June 15 to see what the new fees to join are or if there will be another "extension".  Wish I could get my husband to join - we own 5 Marriott weeks, we would be classisfied as Premier status.  Just can't get him to "drink the Kool-Aid".
> 
> SD


 If your husband is basing his decision on being annoyed at Marriott's treatment of weeks owners, I can understand his feelings, as I was more than a little annoyed at the rollout and the clumsy attempts to belittle weeks owners into joining. However, we enrolled in April because I had followed Tuggers reports on how the DC was working for them, and saw it could work to our advantage.

But with 5 weeks, he should seriously consider the financial and flexibility aspects.  We never plan to exchange for points, even though Waiohai was not seriously skimmed, but we do lock off (Mountainside)  and exchange every year, and the free re-exchange is nice too.  So he needs to forget about being angry at Marriott (if that is his main reason) and think how it will benefit your ownership. 

Good luck.  My husband really knows nothing of how all this works, so he leaves it up to me.  Would actually be nice if he did take an interest so we could debate!  (or not!)


----------



## dioxide45

Cmore said:


> As to your other point, I don't have access to the II book at present as I am out of town, but I don't remember being able to book partial week stays to non MVCI resorts via DC points.  You can trade a full week for "x" DC points based on a grid that uses unit size and TDI to determine how many DC are required.   An enrolled owner can also just deposit their unit to II for trading, and not elect points.  If doing this and you upgrade your II membership you can then elect the short stay option to get stays of 1-6 days.  You get 2 short stays forveach deposit.  Hope this helps, and anyone can add on or correct my statements if I have mis stated anything.  I believe I have it right.



Short stays under points are different from weeks. Points users in II can get as many short stays as their points will allow. They are not limited to 2 per deposit. There is a grid in the II buyers guide that shows the number of DC points needed per night for short stays.


----------



## SDMiller

Thank you all for your comments and words of encouragement.  Hubby feels that we rarely trade thru II (no fees there), we trade with fellow Tuggers or rent our units, or stay at our home resort.  I feel it would benefit us so we won't have to pay those dreaded II membership fees on our two accounts.  I really like the option to visit any of the other Marriotts and pick check in dates during the week, vs Fri-Sun.

SD


----------



## dioxide45

SDMiller said:


> Thank you all for your comments and words of encouragement.  Hubby feels that we rarely trade thru II (no fees there), we trade with fellow Tuggers or rent our units, or stay at our home resort.  I feel it would benefit us so we won't have to pay those dreaded II membership fees on our two accounts.  I really like the option to visit any of the other Marriotts and pick check in dates during the week, vs Fri-Sun.
> 
> SD



Why do you have two II accounts? Is it because of how the title is held on the units? Does MVCI consider that you only have one account or would there be multiple enrollment fees? Just curious.


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## Cmore

Dioxide,
Thanks for clarifying as that answers Top Fuel's question and is good to know for all DC members considering non Marriott short stays via II.


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## SDMiller

We tried to get II to combine the accounts but they will not because four units are in the family trust and one is still a joint ownership.

SD


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## RandR

Thanks Dioxide and Sue.


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## Topfuelweb

*Points*



Cmore said:


> Dioxide,
> Thanks for clarifying as that answers Top Fuel's question and is good to know for all DC members considering non Marriott short stays via II.



Thanks for the replies, we took the plunge to DC today, I think it will work out best wrt flexibility and our present travel needs, I love Maui but with two young kids Florida has a lot to offer and it doesnt cost 4k to fly there from Toronto. This is a great web site and very helpful...thanks again!!


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## LUVourMarriotts

SDMiller said:


> Will be watching the Marriott website on June 15 to see what the new fees to join are or if there will be another "extension".  Wish I could get my husband to join - we own 5 Marriott weeks, we would be classisfied as Premier status.  Just can't get him to "drink the Kool-Aid".
> 
> SD



The price will change tomorrow (June 14).  Take this as you want, but AFTER I paid today, I spoke with a owner services rep again and I asked how busy it was today.  She said it was very busy, but she got a lot of, "I'll call back tomorrow to do this".  She said she had to explain to so many people that June 14 is the price change, not the last day to sign up.

She also said that they were told by their management that the price will NOT be extended again.  The reasons they were told were, (1) they spent a ton of money on marketing this program and date, and (2) the industry has used a 2 year discounted buy-in.  For #2, she said other companies have switched to points and used 2 years for their introductory pricing.  I have no idea if that is true.  But, since I already paid, I felt like she had no reason to lie/exaggerate.


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## LUVourMarriotts

Sorry if this was already mentioned.  Another thing I was told on the phone today is that all of the European resorts will be added to the DC in the next few months.  I thought that was interesting news.


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## m61376

Well, they were good to their word and the price did go up, with no 800 bonus point offer. There is a teaser about enrollment discounts if you speak to a sales associate; I'm guessing that the new hook will be free or discounted enrollment with the purchase of a minimum points package. 

I was half expecting pre-6/20/10 resale weeks to be excluded or some other catch, since it really is a modest price increase for enrolling those weeks, comparatively speaking at least. However, the enrollment opportunity remains the same with a singular pricing for all week(s) that are eligible.


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## dioxide45

m61376 said:


> Well, they were good to their word and the price did go up, with no 800 bonus point offer. There is a teaser about enrollment discounts if you speak to a sales associate; I'm guessing that the new hook will be free or discounted enrollment with the purchase of a minimum points package.
> 
> I was half expecting pre-6/20/10 resale weeks to be excluded or some other catch, since it really is a modest price increase for enrolling those weeks, comparatively speaking at least. However, the enrollment opportunity remains the same with a singular pricing for all week(s) that are eligible.



I noticed that, looking at the Enrollment Notice when you click on the Enroll Now link it contains this verbiage. Bolding is mine.



> You may enroll certain week(s) in the Exchange Program for only $2,395. Except for certain weeks purchased from Marriott Vacation Club or its affiliates, weeks that were purchased and recorded after June 20, 2010 are not eligible for this offer. Weeks purchased from third parties (i.e., not from Marriott Vacation Club) with a deed recording date prior to June 20, 2010 *may* be eligible for this offer. Offer is valid for weeks located at U.S. and Caribbean only.



Funny how that it indicates third party purchase prior to 6/10/10 may be eligible. Does that also mean that they may not? Strange and unnecessary wording. Just say they are or are not.


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## dioxide45

When you click on the Learn More link on the main page at my-vacationclub.com there is still a bullet "Plus, enrolling is available at a special introductory price". When you click on special introductory price there is verbiage about contacting your sales executive to receive enrollment discounts. As suspected, there will likely be some type of discount for additional trust point purchases.


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## JimC

The "may" be eligible might depend on the number of trust points you agree to buy while enrolling the previously ineligible week.

Sill not enrolled as it would only increase our annual costs based on our use.


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## SDMiller

We did it :whoopie:     Just in the nick of time - I thought the deadline was June 14, and read a little more on their website and said it is now or never.  Talked my husband into it.  I explained we will save so much with II annual membership, trade fees and Marriott fees for depositing weeks for points.  So at 8pm pacific time I joined  online.  I saw right away my weeks were enrolled and available for points. 

We did not enroll one week that we had committed to trade with a Tugger for July 2013. I didn't want to risk not having it available with the points. So how does that work if I add that last week next year, what will I pay???

Thanks again for all your support, as usual, Tuggers are so knowledgeable!

SD


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## Cmore

SDMiller said:


> We did it :whoopie:     Just in the nick of time - I thought the deadline was June 14, and read a little more on their website and said it is now or never.  Talked my husband into it.  I explained we will save so much with II annual membership, trade fees and Marriott fees for depositing weeks for points.  So at 8pm pacific time I joined  online.  I saw right away my weeks were enrolled and available for points.
> 
> We did not enroll one week that we had committed to trade with a Tugger for July 2013. I didn't want to risk not having it available with the points. So how does that work if I add that last week next year, what will I pay???
> 
> Thanks again for all your support, as usual, Tuggers are so knowledgeable!
> SD



You may want to call Marriott and have that week added to your DC enrollment.  Explain confusion, etc.  Enrolling does nothing to current reservations or II deposits.  Just provides new DC options.  I don't know the exact make up of you existing portfolio of weeks as to 
developer/resale purchases, but if it would not materially affect your current out of pocket 
significantly I'd get that week included in your enrollment ASAP to avoid other fees.   If you 
knowingly only enrolled developer weeks at the $595/695 rate, then it's a bigger decision to 
add a resale week and have a $2k total enrollment fee.


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## dioxide45

Cmore said:


> You may want to call Marriott and have that week added to your DC enrollment.  Explain confusion, etc.  Enrolling does nothing to current reservations or II deposits.  Just provides new DC options.  I don't know the exact make up of you existing portfolio of weeks as to
> developer/resale purchases, but if it would not materially affect your current out of pocket
> significantly I'd get that week included in your enrollment ASAP to avoid other fees.   If you
> knowingly only enrolled developer weeks at the $595/695 rate, then it's a bigger decision to
> add a resale week and have a $2k total enrollment fee.



I agree, enrolling that week would not have affected the usage of that week at all. To call and enroll now it may cost the different between what was paid pre 6/14 and now.


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## dioxide45

JimC said:


> The "may" be eligible might depend on the number of trust points you agree to buy while enrolling the previously ineligible week.
> 
> Sill not enrolled as it would only increase our annual costs based on our use.



Could be correct. Have you been in to the system to see if it would even allow you to enroll resale weeks at the $2395 pricing? Or would it prompt you to contact a sales executive? I can't check since we are enrolled. Any unenrolled resale owner could check on this.


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## SDMiller

I called first thing this AM and they added to my account.  

The 800 bonus points expires in 1 year?

SD


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## dioxide45

SDMiller said:


> I called first thing this AM and they added to my account.
> 
> The 800 bonus points expires in 1 year?
> 
> SD



Great, no extra cost to enroll it I hope?

Yes, they will expire one year from when they are issued. You will be able to see the expiration date online and in the e-mail they send you once they are available.


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## JimC

dioxide45 said:


> Could be correct. Have you been in to the system to see if it would even allow you to enroll resale weeks at the $2395 pricing? Or would it prompt you to contact a sales executive? I can't check since we are enrolled. Any unenrolled resale owner could check on this.



I just checked and my resale and direct weeks qualified for enrollment.


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## m61376

SDMiller said:


> We did it :whoopie:     Just in the nick of time - I thought the deadline was June 14, and read a little more on their website and said it is now or never.  Talked my husband into it.  I explained we will save so much with II annual membership, trade fees and Marriott fees for depositing weeks for points.  So at 8pm pacific time I joined  online.  I saw right away my weeks were enrolled and available for points.
> 
> We did not enroll one week that we had committed to trade with a Tugger for July 2013. I didn't want to risk not having it available with the points. So how does that work if I add that last week next year, what will I pay???
> 
> Thanks again for all your support, as usual, Tuggers are so knowledgeable!
> 
> SD



Glad they accommodated you and enrolled the lone week. Just so you're clear on this, enrolling does not change your ability to make reservations, use the week, rent the week, make private exchanges or trade the week via II. You have the option to exchange it for DC points and make points reservations, but that is an option and you can continue business as usual, with the exception that your DC annual fee includes locking off and trading to other Marriotts in II.


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## FrostyKev

I guess it wasn't for me.  I misread it and thought 6/14 was the deadline.  I went to go register and they want the 2395. . . so since I screwed up I guess it wasn't meant to be!  I figure I'll call tomorrow and ask but it sounds like a semi hard line. . . oh well, maybe they'll offer another special another time. . . the added flexibility might have been nice, but it isn't a deal breaker. . . heck maybe I just saved 700!!!


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## MOXJO7282

dioxide45 said:


> Funny how that it indicates third party purchase prior to 6/10/10 may be eligible. Does that also mean that they may not? Strange and unnecessary wording. Just say they are or are not.



The fact that they had that 6/10/10 cutoff ultimately made it a no go for me as I really didn't want to have two separate II accounts. I would have done every one of mine if they would've allowed.

I thought they could have made exception for prime locations like mine instead of by date as they made need inventory in the trust that they probably will never get.


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## jont

SueDonJ said:


> Actually, I think this is important enough to expand a bit ...
> 
> When the DC was first rolled out one of the Enrollment Terms and Conditions was a voting restriction that stated, "1.) Owner represents and warrants to MVCEC that, as a Exchange Member, Owner:  e.) will not exercise any vote Owner may have in the owners" association ("Resort Association") operating the resort in which Owner's Timeshare Interest is located ("Resort") in a manner that is, in MVCEC's reasonable discretion, detrimental to the Program, including, without limitation, voting to limit or terminate the Resort's participation in the Program."
> 
> *That restriction*, #1.e., *was removed* from the document sometime before March 1, 2011, *and has not been replaced with anything that restricts the voting rights of an enrolled Member in any way*, especially and specifically with respect to the voting rights that every Weeks owner has by virtue of the Weeks governing docs.
> 
> For many owners that voting restriction was a significant factor for not enrolling their Week(s) in the DC.  IMO it's important to make it clear that it no longer exists in any form.


thanks Sue, I thought it was in the original provisions. I must of missed or completely forgotten that it was removed.


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## Pomme

Hi,

I don't know if it's too late to ask here. I really hope someone will suggest what should I do.

I have one week at Marriott Phuket Beach Club, been using it to exchange via II to stay at Marriott Newport Coast Villas every year. It's hard to book, but managed to get one every year. I was wondering, if DC is good for me, since the week I book is a high season week (early April) while my home resort week is a gold week. 

At the moment, my gold week, with a good chance, I get get a week at Marriott Newport Coast on their high season. If I enroll, I will probably not benefit from this because the amount of DC I will get from gold week, will be less compare to number of DC I will need to stay at the other place during high season? I should keep my week?

My gold week from Marriott Phuket = DC2500, they offer 800 DC on top if I enrolled within this year, the enrollment fee is USD595. 

I wonder about the amount of week that are deposit into II each year, and the amount of DC (weeks) that are available through Marriott DC programme are equally or which one has more, which would give me more chance of getting the week I want? Anyone know the figures of how many week owner has turn their week into DC?

The benefit I will get is: I will probably borrow DC from future year to cover my additional nights that is more than a week, I usually use 7+5 nights. 

As I read the forum, it's said that DC is just another way of exchange, when I enroll, I can still exchange my week via II as a week? If I have DC, I can book a week at my home resort for a week, then deposit to II, then exchange for a week at other place, pretty much the same way I do now?

Thank you very much in advance for your kind advise.


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## bazzap

Pomme said:


> Hi,
> 
> I don't know if it's too late to ask here. I really hope someone will suggest what should I do.
> 
> I have one week at Marriott Phuket Beach Club, been using it to exchange via II to stay at Marriott Newport Coast Villas every year. It's hard to book, but managed to get one every year. I was wondering, if DC is good for me, since the week I book is a high season week (early April) while my home resort week is a gold week.
> 
> At the moment, my gold week, with a good chance, I get get a week at Marriott Newport Coast on their high season. If I enroll, I will probably not benefit from this because the amount of DC I will get from gold week, will be less compare to number of DC I will need to stay at the other place during high season? I should keep my week?
> 
> My gold week from Marriott Phuket = DC2500, they offer 800 DC on top if I enrolled within this year, the enrollment fee is USD595.
> 
> I wonder about the amount of week that are deposit into II each year, and the amount of DC (weeks) that are available through Marriott DC programme are equally or which one has more, which would give me more chance of getting the week I want? Anyone know the figures of how many week owner has turn their week into DC?
> 
> The benefit I will get is: I will probably borrow DC from future year to cover my additional nights that is more than a week, I usually use 7+5 nights.
> 
> As I read the forum, it's said that DC is just another way of exchange, when I enroll, I can still exchange my week via II as a week? If I have DC, I can book a week at my home resort for a week, then deposit to II, then exchange for a week at other place, pretty much the same way I do now?
> 
> Thank you very much in advance for your kind advise.


Did they explain that you will also have to pay $185 annual DC dues?
This will include your Interval fees, but along with the $595 enrolment fee the cost benefit of enrolment may well be less easy to justify than for multiple week owners.
Having said this, the $595 fee is an introductory offer for Phuket Beach Club and will inevitably rise in time (we don't know when or by how much, but this compares with other regions where it has risen from $595 to a standard $2395 now!)
If it were me, I probably would not enrol a single Gold Phuket Beach Club week, especially as 2500 DC Points will limit your exchange opportunities (the 800 DC Points they are offering will be a one time usage)
However, if you believe you may want to get into the DC Points programme at some stage, now is definitely the best time to do it.
UPDATE 
just checking the Newport Coast Villas DC Points requirements, 2900 DC Points is the absolute minimum required for a week at any time of year, it goes right up to 5675 DC Points for peak, peak weeks - this alone might be decisive for you.


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## Pomme

Thank you very much for your suggestion. I assume for  a one week owner, it doesn't worth it. I am thinking about buying a little more DC to complete my 12 days trip. 

The fee to convert week into DC make people scare of the future, I was wondering whether they will eventually force us to move to DC. But it seems that it is not possible to do that.


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## bazzap

Pomme said:


> Thank you very much for your suggestion. I assume for  a one week owner, it doesn't worth it. I am thinking about buying a little more DC to complete my 12 days trip.
> 
> The fee to convert week into DC make people scare of the future, I was wondering whether they will eventually force us to move to DC. But it seems that it is not possible to do that.


When you say "buying a little more DC", do you mean in addition to the 2500 DC you would get from enrolling and electing your PBC week or have you already bought some DC?
All I would say about buying some DC Points is
They are expensive, whether buying from MVC or even Resale (for a small number) with all the fees MVC apply
Inventory availability in Asia and Europe with DC Points is very limited, currently anyway, because of the lack of DC Trust ownership and also relatively few enrolled weeks owners actually elect their weeks for DC Points.
This may change for Asia when AP Points and DC Points "come together" later in the year, but to what extent noone really knows?


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## kds4

My thought process is slightly different. The rental cost/maintenance fee for DC points is approximately .50 per point.

If they are offering you 800 one-time bonus points for enrolling your week, that is worth about $400 of the $595 they are charging you. So, for the one-time cost of $195 to enroll your week (and the $185 annual fee each year to pay for any exchanges you may make), you can convert your week to 2,500 DC points. Paying $185 annually to be able to convert your week to points in the future may not sound attractive, but doing this will enable you to rent any additional DC points you may need (for around .50 per point) instead of spending big money now in "buying a little more DC points". 

For example, maybe you need 3,500 points to do what you want (2,500 for converting your week and 1,000 from somewhere else).

If you are going to buy any additional points from Marriott, you will need to buy at least 1,000 points (if they will even sell you that little) at a cost of at least $13,000 to buy them (plus annual maintenance fees of $500 to keep them). 

Instead, because you enrolled your week, you can just rent the 1,000 additional points you need, (and only when you need them) at a potential cost of only $500 to $600. Unless you have a specific goal that can only be met with owning points (like passing them to your kids, or wanting high-level membership benefits) just enrolling your week and renting what you need is the way to go in my opinion. Good luck.


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## GregT

Pomme said:


> Thank you very much for your suggestion. I assume for  a one week owner, it doesn't worth it. I am thinking about buying a little more DC to complete my 12 days trip.
> 
> The fee to convert week into DC make people scare of the future, I was wondering whether they will eventually force us to move to DC. But it seems that it is not possible to do that.



You can always rent points from other owners to supplement your 2,500 points.   Points are available in abundance for $0.50, reducing the need to actually buy points.   It may worth it to enroll your single week if you are willing to rent points from others.

Best,

Greg


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## hangloose

Are the $80 lock-off fee and $35 reservation change fee both also included at no cost for all enrolled weeks?


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## bazzap

hangloose said:


> Are the $80 lock-off fee and $35 reservation change fee both also included at no cost for all enrolled weeks?


The lock off fee is certainly included.
I have never had need to change a reservation, so someone else will have to respond on that one.


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## vacationtime1

bazzap said:


> The lock off fee is certainly included.
> I have never had need to change a reservation, so someone else will have to respond on that one.



Change fee also included; we modified a reservation last week and the rep did not ask for money.


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## hangloose

Thanks all!  Another plus for enrolled weeks lowering add on fees.  Great!  Every now and then, I can leverage the savings!


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## pedro47

Wow! This thread was started April 2012 and the information is still valuable and current


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