# Purchasing Resale



## dantx (Apr 24, 2012)

I am looking at purchasing resale over 500k points which would make gold member. Will i lose anything from the gold member benefits or just the stuff from VIP. Can someone give me all feed back they can from experience or link me to some places that give me alot of feedback.


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## bnoble (Apr 24, 2012)

> Will i lose anything from the gold member benefits or just the stuff from VIP


I'm not sure what you mean here.  The only "Gold Member" benefits are those that apply to "Gold VIPs".  If you buy resale, none of them apply.  But, most of us believe that the "Gold benefits" are generally not worth what it costs to obtain them, so I do not view it as any great sacrifice.

So, to be clear: if you buy 500K points resale, you will not be a "Gold Member".  You will be a (regular) member of Club Wyndham Plus and/or Access, depending on which flavor of deeds you buy.


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## timeos2 (Apr 24, 2012)

*uying resale does NOT qualify you as a VIP of any type.  *However the savings of resale vs retail are SO great that the limited, and non-guaranteed, "benefits" of VIP simply aren't of any value compared to the cot of obtainng them today. 

Buy & utilize resale (be sure to bank, borrow & pool points to maximize value) and you will be far happier and get more value than any of today's VIP buyer will ever enjoy. 

Buying retail Wyndham, the only way to VIP now, is a total ripoff. Period.


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## ronparise (Apr 24, 2012)

dantx said:


> I am looking at purchasing resale over 500k points which would make gold member. Will i lose anything from the gold member benefits or just the stuff from VIP. Can someone give me all feed back they can from experience or link me to some places that give me alot of feedback.



VIP benefits do not transfer to a new owner, 

Gold is a level of VIP 

You will not become a VIP Gold member and you will get none of the VIP Gold benefits if you purchase on the resale market

(although there are reports of Wyndham making a mistake and making a resale owner VIP)


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## dantx (Apr 24, 2012)

I know purchasing retail is a real rip off. But i was wonderin in this you do not get the 13 month window you only get the 10 month and you do not get the free rci membership?


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## ronparise (Apr 24, 2012)

dantx said:


> I know purchasing retail is a real rip off. But i was wonderin in this you do not get the 13 month window you only get the 10 month and you do not get the free rci membership?



You do get the included RCI membership and you do get the 13 month ARP at your home resort


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## dantx (Apr 24, 2012)

If it is a club wyndham access then i get all the home resorts in that list? Just making sure i understand only stupid question is one i do not ask cause i am really new and ignorant to this stuff. Thanks


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## jjmanthei05 (Apr 24, 2012)

dantx said:


> I know purchasing retail is a real rip off. But i was wonderin in this you do not get the 13 month window you only get the 10 month and you do not get the free rci membership?



Those are standard program benefits that everyone get. The 13 month window is for your home resort only for the amount of points you have there and everyone gets a free RCI Membership. 

Some of what you wont get is:
Unlimited Housekeeping and reservation credits
10 free Guest Certificates
35% discount on reservations 60 days or less
1 room upgrade 45 days or less
The Annual VIP Cruise (which you have to pay cash for)
A FREE NEWSPAPER DELIVERED TO YOUR DOOR!!!!!!!
There are others but I can't think of them right now and are of not much consequence...

Jason


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## Passepartout (Apr 24, 2012)

The RCI membership isn't free, it's just included in the cost of your Wyndham membership.


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## dantx (Apr 24, 2012)

If someone does not mind that has bought resale will you show me or tell me what it says on the main screen under your name. I have a friend that is VIP and i looked at his and wonder if is shows different. Please thanks.


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## jjmanthei05 (Apr 24, 2012)

Here you go. 



Jason


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## pacodemountainside (Apr 24, 2012)

Wyndham salespeople  having been lying  you get free RCI membership so long it has  about become defacto. Many resellers say THEIR ad includes. In fact,  one pays at least $98 program  fee which  includes. On 500K  points fee will be around  $260.

Last year VOI  Trust collected about $60 million and  sent about $20 million to RCI for this.

As far as info,  it is all here. Just peruse posts for  headings that  contain  item you are looking for. Or, do a search on  say CWA to find posts here that  pertain to it!

With ARP at home resort it is virtually certain you can get   about anything at 13 month mark. While all resort owners have, many do not have enough points  and others simply can't plan 13 months out!

While CWA  has at some 56+ resorts, a crap shoot.


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## DrBopp (Apr 24, 2012)

dantx said:


> I know purchasing retail is a real rip off. But i was wonderin in this you do not get the 13 month window you only get the 10 month and you do not get the free rci membership?



I realize that you are seeking information, but do you really feel that 13 month ARP and a free(really included in MF) RCI membership is worth the difference of thousands of dollars between retail and resale price?


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## dantx (Apr 24, 2012)

LOL no way i know it is not worth the difference in purchasing resale and from developer..But never hurts to ask question from people who have purchased resale before i figured there had to be some things that you still retained and those were the more important of the bunch i would think thans early check in and free upgrades... but no would never buy from developer.


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## DrBopp (Apr 24, 2012)

*Just checking*



dantx said:


> LOL no way i know it is not worth the difference in purchasing resale and from developer..But never hurts to ask question from people who have purchased resale before i figured there had to be some things that you still retained and those were the more important of the bunch i would think thans early check in and free upgrades... but no would never buy from developer.



I understand and it never hurts to ask questions before spending your money. The salespeople from Wyndham put out so many lies about what benefits resale buyers get, that it sways many people to purchase retail. I was just trying to understand if those two things would make you consider $20000 + for them. 

Gordon


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## dantx (Apr 25, 2012)

NO way i have sat through a few of there spills and would never purchase that way, just glad i found this site with people like you and other that help look out for some of us and give us good info. THanks everyone for the insite very appriciated.


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## WyndhamResale (May 25, 2012)

*ReSale Owners' Accounts are "Red Flagged"?*



DrBopp said:


> I understand and it never hurts to ask questions before spending your money. The salespeople from Wyndham put out so many lies about what benefits resale buyers get, that it sways many people to purchase retail. I was just trying to understand if those two things would make you consider $20000 + for them.
> 
> Gordon



Unfortunately, we recently sat through yet another resort sales pitch. We were told we were getting FREE breakfast and a "presentation" that would give us lots of information and "updates." If you consider yogurt, muffins, & coffee "breakfast", then that may have been truthful.

After 3 hours, and some arm twisting, we left the presentation hungry and frustrated (yet again). Yes, we got treated as Red-headed step children once again. We bought our points via ebay and saved about $14K -vs- buying from Corporate. But, they tell us those points will NEVER count toward any kind of upgrade (VIP, etc.). The sales guy actually had the nerve to insult us directly by saying we were "ignorant" for buying resale. He told us that resale purchasers (those who did not buy directly from Corporate) will eventually get "pushed out". He said the newer contracts being written by Corporate would have language PREVENTING owners from selling their points FSBO or through any agency other than Wyndham. I smell another class-action suit???

I'm looking for anyone else who bought their points from someone other than Corporate and have experienced similar 2nd class treatment...


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## Passepartout (May 25, 2012)

And these would be the same folks that tell prospects that they can pass the ownerships on to relatives, and they they have great resale value, and that Wyndham ownership is an 'investment'? Seems to me that investments require a market, and there just isn't one with timeshares. The only value is in their use. Period.

Jim


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## ronparise (May 25, 2012)

WyndhamResale said:


> Unfortunately, we recently sat through yet another resort sales pitch. We were told we were getting FREE breakfast and a "presentation" that would give us lots of information and "updates." If you consider yogurt, muffins, & coffee "breakfast", then that may have been truthful.
> 
> After 3 hours, and some arm twisting, we left the presentation hungry and frustrated (yet again). Yes, we got treated as Red-headed step children once again. We bought our points via ebay and saved about $14K -vs- buying from Corporate. But, they tell us those points will NEVER count toward any kind of upgrade (VIP, etc.). The sales guy actually had the nerve to insult us directly by saying we were "ignorant" for buying resale. He told us that resale purchasers (those who did not buy directly from Corporate) will eventually get "pushed out". He said the newer contracts being written by Corporate would have language PREVENTING owners from selling their points FSBO or through any agency other than Wyndham. I smell another class-action suit???
> 
> I'm looking for anyone else who bought their points from someone other than Corporate and have experienced similar 2nd class treatment...



Sorry, i cant help, I had a great breakfast at Las Vegas..(Its worth going to a presentation). and the salesman actually complemented me on the way I use my ownership. He suggested that I buy an assumable  mortgage deal from their inventory so I could reach my goal before October when the requirements change, but my saying no thanks just once was enough for him.

National Harbor , had no breakfast but I got the same respect. He made his pitch, I said no thanks and that was the end of it

I think the difference may be that I got a good experienced salesman. who recognized a firm no, and would rather move on than waste more time with me


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## pacodemountainside (May 25, 2012)

WyndhamResale said:


> Unfortunately, we recently sat through yet another resort sales pitch. We were told we were getting FREE breakfast and a "presentation" that would give us lots of information and "updates." If you consider yogurt, muffins, & coffee "breakfast", then that may have been truthful.
> 
> After 3 hours, and some arm twisting, we left the presentation hungry and frustrated (yet again). Yes, we got treated as Red-headed step children once again. We bought our points via ebay and saved about $14K -vs- buying from Corporate. But, they tell us those points will NEVER count toward any kind of upgrade (VIP, etc.). The sales guy actually had the nerve to insult us directly by saying we were "ignorant" for buying resale. He told us that resale purchasers (those who did not buy directly from Corporate) will eventually get "pushed out". He said the newer contracts being written by Corporate would have language PREVENTING owners from selling their points FSBO or through any agency other than Wyndham. I smell another class-action suit???
> 
> I'm looking for anyone else who bought their points from someone other than Corporate and have experienced similar 2nd class treatment...



Actually most people who sign up for a sales pitch, owner up date, survey, etc.  experience similar treatment when it becomes apparent they are not going to buy. 

One is not signing up for Church ice cream social, but a wrestling  match with the Devil. 

There are those of us  who go  armed  to  rattle sale people cages,  have  our  weapons at ready!.  Have printed out  from www.wyndsham.com  that Wyndham   does  exterminate /reduce VIP benefits,  have a copy of Bill Spearman Article from April 2009 TS  Today,  a copy of BBB report showing Wyndham has  "F" BBB rating,  how much we saved buying resale,  VOI Trust financials showing  Wyndham  only pays about $200 for valuable VIP benefits, etc. etc.

While Wyndham can  change new contracts and deeds old ones are cast in concrete. This lie  about reducing resale benefits has been around at least 11 years. Have heard from Hawaii to  Orlando.  

I would have said  GREAT, Wyndham is instituting a  buy back program.  Prove you are not lying and show me in WRITING how it works!

CWA does have ROFR but don't think ever used. It does not even apply to  any resales less than $100 which most ebay are!


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## DrBopp (May 25, 2012)

WyndhamResale said:


> Unfortunately, we recently sat through yet another resort sales pitch. We were told we were getting FREE breakfast and a "presentation" that would give us lots of information and "updates." If you consider yogurt, muffins, & coffee "breakfast", then that may have been truthful.
> 
> After 3 hours, and some arm twisting, we left the presentation hungry and frustrated (yet again). Yes, we got treated as Red-headed step children once again. We bought our points via ebay and saved about $14K -vs- buying from Corporate. But, they tell us those points will NEVER count toward any kind of upgrade (VIP, etc.). The sales guy actually had the nerve to insult us directly by saying we were "ignorant" for buying resale. He told us that resale purchasers (those who did not buy directly from Corporate) will eventually get "pushed out". He said the newer contracts being written by Corporate would have language PREVENTING owners from selling their points FSBO or through any agency other than Wyndham. I smell another class-action suit???
> 
> I'm looking for anyone else who bought their points from someone other than Corporate and have experienced similar 2nd class treatment...



I was told the same stuff at Governor Green(but the breakfast was really good) and I told them that by the time they push me out, I will be ready to go. I don't see how it  is possible, but anything can happen. I got all of my points resale and have not regretted it. I have no problems reserving where I want to go and if/when the  time comes that it happens, I will handle it then. 
eantime, I just keep collecting those $75-$100 AMEX gift cards!

Gordon


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## rrlongwell (May 25, 2012)

ronparise said:


> ... I think the difference may be that I got a good experienced salesman. who recognized a firm no, and would rather move on than waste more time with me



I do not think so, I think you have a reputation.  At a recent sales pitch, I was outside smoking a cigerette while the wife was talking to the saleperson.  Another salesperson came up to me and asked if I was you.  I assured him immediatly I was not.  I think one of us got insulted.  I am just not sure which one.


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## rrlongwell (May 25, 2012)

WyndhamResale said:


> Unfortunately, we recently sat through yet another resort sales pitch. We were told we were getting FREE breakfast and a "presentation" that would give us lots of information and "updates." If you consider yogurt, muffins, & coffee "breakfast", then that may have been truthful.
> 
> After 3 hours, and some arm twisting, we left the presentation hungry and frustrated (yet again). Yes, we got treated as Red-headed step children once again. We bought our points via ebay and saved about $14K -vs- buying from Corporate. But, they tell us those points will NEVER count toward any kind of upgrade (VIP, etc.). The sales guy actually had the nerve to insult us directly by saying we were "ignorant" for buying resale. He told us that resale purchasers (those who did not buy directly from Corporate) will eventually get "pushed out". He said the newer contracts being written by Corporate would have language PREVENTING owners from selling their points FSBO or through any agency other than Wyndham. I smell another class-action suit???
> 
> I'm looking for anyone else who bought their points from someone other than Corporate and have experienced similar 2nd class treatment...



I have received similar or woarse treatement from Wyndham Sales staff.  However, I have not bought anything that was not through Wyndham or its authorized affiliates.  The exception to some of the timeshares are those that I got from my step father's estate.

I have one of the "newer contracts"  and all it does is give Wyndham the right of first refusal.   I have had Wyndham sales tell me a couple of times they are now the sole agent for re-sale of timeshares.  I ignore them because I am not selling any.

By the way, I am aware of a couple of reports that Wyndham sales do take back re-sale contracts.  Ryme or reason is unknown to me as to who gets these offers and who does not.


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## Timeshare Von (May 25, 2012)

I have often done the updates for the freebies.  Some of my reports on the experiences are legendary, if only in my own mind.  LOL

I always enjoy those when I've been upfront (as I always am) that we are not going to buy or back in the day, convert fixed weeks to points . . . and that we're only interested in "the update" AND the gift . . . only to have the sales man at the end turn on me/us saying something along the lines of how we kept him for earning a living that day and to think about that the next time I/we decide to waste another sales person's time.

Yeah, that argument will keep me away . . . every time.  NOT!


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## MFT (May 27, 2012)

*The good and evil of Wyndham*

We enjoy our Wyndham property ownership, of which one was purchased from Wyndham, but the next two secondary.  When they send up the "scout" to our room for the "how's your unit" visit and little gift, we normally don't get invited to the sales meeting.  After the review of our plan, and they see our secondary market properties, and I tell him how much we paid, they usually smile and say "have a good time in XXXXXX".  

What does disturb me though is the hype around the sales meetings, and that property is an investment, has all these benefits, etc...  I have asked straight up though "what is my return on investment if I decide to sell down the road?"  Usually they do the song and dance of it's a lifestyle purchase, etc...  But when I point out that on the secondary market, my plans carry no VIP benefits, have little to no resale value, etc... it's like purchasing a brand new car, but when I go to sell it, it's stripped of it's engine and interior...  It's basically worthless scrap.

Now, with all the past talk of class action suits, why this has not become an issue to sue and have all items that were available to the original owner transferable is beyond me.  It's the VIP benefits that should not be able to be stripped from the contracts, and than resale value would be higher, and maybe even help them with the sale of new contracts.


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## ronparise (May 27, 2012)

rrlongwell said:


> I do not think so, I think you have a reputation.  At a recent sales pitch, I was outside smoking a cigerette while the wife was talking to the saleperson.  Another salesperson came up to me and asked if I was you.  I assured him immediatly I was not.  I think one of us got insulted.  I am just not sure which one.



Oh my God!!  I had no idea you were that good looking.  

When and where did that happen?

Anyone can get that reputation if they know the product as well as they do, and know how to say no thanks. All that it takes is a little time on TUG


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## jkmeca11 (May 27, 2012)

*Very funny!*



ronparise said:


> Oh my God!!  I had no idea you were that good looking.
> 
> When and where did that happen?
> 
> Anyone can get that reputation if they know the product as well as they do, and know how to say no thanks. All that it takes is a little time on TUG



:rofl: You guys are killing me over here! :rofl:


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## rrlongwell (May 27, 2012)

[QUOTE ... When and where did that happen? ... ]

Shawnee Village in April this year.


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## pacodemountainside (May 27, 2012)

MFT said:


> We enjoy our Wyndham property ownership, of which one was purchased from Wyndham, but the next two secondary.  When they send up the "scout" to our room for the "how's your unit" visit and little gift, we normally don't get invited to the sales meeting.  After the review of our plan, and they see our secondary market properties, and I tell him how much we paid, they usually smile and say "have a good time in XXXXXX".
> 
> What does disturb me though is the hype around the sales meetings, and that property is an investment, has all these benefits, etc...  I have asked straight up though "what is my return on investment if I decide to sell down the road?"  Usually they do the song and dance of it's a lifestyle purchase, etc...  But when I point out that on the secondary market, my plans carry no VIP benefits, have little to no resale value, etc... it's like purchasing a brand new car, but when I go to sell it, it's stripped of it's engine and interior...  It's basically worthless scrap.
> 
> Now, with all the past talk of class action suits, why this has not become an issue to sue and have all items that were available to the original owner transferable is beyond me.  It's the VIP benefits that should not be able to be stripped from the contracts, and than resale value would be higher, and maybe even help them with the sale of new contracts.





According  to Fairfield 30 Rules of Conduct  Circa 2005 it is  strictly prohibited to  say a time share is an investment.  Sales gets  away with by mumbo jumbo  about investing in vacations. Actually, after hearing same lies at so many locations it appears these 30 rules are more suggestions to sales people  on  saying the right buzz words.


The  pragmatic  part is  virtually all time shares are used, but  supposely maintained in  excellent condition by our MF while a used car  is going to need expensive repairs!  No way buying from Developer insures you are going to get a  new room that has never been slept in probably many times.  The cost of VIP benefits which are paid by Wyndham sales aren't that much. $12 million for  2010(last year  available) so spread over VIPs maybe $200  per VIP. Sales claims of thousands  are lies.


The reason there is no lawsuit is simple. You get a deed and all rights that go with it that is recorded with County clerk or certificate  from CWA as provided in contract.


VIP benefits were NEVER part of contract/deed. They are  simply  a sales incentive   that is available at Developer discretion.  Think that bribe you get for going to sales pitch!  All brochures describing  VIP   state this,  like  at bottom of  page 288 of CWA Directory. Sales makes sure you know resales don't get,  page 287! Ebay auction  ads make no mention of.


Many  resales are lost sales to Developer and that is why sales people lie so vehemently  about resales losing "all" benefits. Check all the recissions here!

How would this help  Developer sales? 

Actually,  is in not uncommon for original purchasers of goods and merchandise   to get  special incentives that do not transfer.


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## rrlongwell (May 27, 2012)

pacodemountainside said:


> ... The reason there is no lawsuit is simple. You get a deed and all rights that go with it that is recorded with County clerk or certificate  from CWA as provided in contract  ...



Just beware that just because the contact for CWA calls for a certificate, it is not necessarily awarded.  In my case, you get the points and use rights but not the certificate or associated ownership rights in Club Wyndham Access over and above the points.  Getting a certificate, per Corporate Wyndham, if not a decision they make.  The sales people's job is to sell it that way.  However, the approval of the certificate is a seperate process.  The decision maker on this issue is not up to Wyndham, it is up to a seperate Legal enity and, in my case, to date, is being withheld.  The signficance of the Certificate, as I understand it, if the owners of points have a certificate and Club Wyndham Access fail, then there is a fractional ownership in the underlying deeds and the right to vote in Association affairs.  If not, oh well.


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## pacodemountainside (May 27, 2012)

rrlongwell said:


> pacodemountainside said:
> 
> 
> > ... The reason there is no lawsuit is simple. You get a deed and all rights that go with it that is recorded with County clerk or certificate  from CWA as provided in contract  ...
> ...


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## rrlongwell (May 27, 2012)

pacodemountainside said:


> rrlongwell said:
> 
> 
> > pacodemountainside said:
> ...


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## timeos2 (May 28, 2012)

Club Wyndham Access is just another in many permutations to confuse & mislead the buyers into things they don't need, don't understand and aren't guaranteed. 

The best advice is to buy UDI points resale of course or, if available in the resort/time/size you desire, a fixed Wyndham week ownership. VIP, CWA, etc etc is all smoke & mirrors and basically worthless as most of it cannot be transferred/resold thus holds no value. Go the simple route & enjoy a great system or just rent & avoid all ownership hassles. Buying retail and / or for VIP is always a big mostake in Wyndham as well as most other timeshares.


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