# Lake Okanagan Resort contract buyout



## kevinjanny

Has anyone else received their buyout letter? It's kind of short notice, giving owners only until January 15 to come up with the money, but we want out so it's a done deal for us. For our own peace of mind, we're taking it to our lawyer to look over. Any thoughts?


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## Just Looking Around

My advice is don't pay it. You have to familiarize yourself with this management group's similar tactic along with their other sordit unsavory practises by skimming the Sunchaser thread on this website. Pour yourself a drink first.


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## kevinjanny

My in-laws went through the whole ordeal at Fairmont. Unfortunately, we are well aware of their history.  They also paid to get out of the whole fiasco, and have not regretted it.  At one time, it was feasible to own it. Now it's easier and in some cases cheaper to rent from an owner on VRBO, and have no strings attached at the end of your vacation.   Based on the condition of the resort the last time we were there, and the escalating maintenance fees, we want out.


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## Just Looking Around

I can imagine everyone would want out. However, I wouldn't pay a dime for any reason. If you believe they've not been strictly faithful to their obligations in the contract, why be true to yours?

Oh sure, there's that being a standup person sentiment but, in the end, is being the only one playing by the rules the right thing to do?  If you believe they've not lived up to their contractual obligations why feel obligated to honor yours? Fairmont, Sunchaser, Rafter Six, and now a buyout for Lake Okanagan gives them a consistent track record but, it's not one of either customer service or building value for their lease-holders. They are counting on the lease-holders taking the easy but expensive way out. It's that simple. What you'll save in time and frustrations, you'll pay for at an exorbitant price. Not to mention, how do you pay to get out of a contract that doesn't have a provision for such an exit?

I imagine at the right price they'll let you out. But, what if they lose any one of the coming legal challenges? If they let lease-holders out but there was not a provision in the contract to let lease-holders out? Those lease-holders might not be out.

As a caution, those who have paid to exit their Fairmont/Sunchaser Timeshare obligations may come to regret that decision. For an explanation read through the thread on that subject; and, you'll find paying to leave and the legacy for life options, may not be what those taking those options thought them to be.


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## Tacoma

Call me nosy but I'm dying to know what they are asking to stay or to go. With Fairmont it all started (so they said) because of the pipes needing to be replaced in the units. They requested 3000 each week to stay or 4000 to go based on an annual ownership. What is the reason they need more money for this resort? I assume once more they didn't realize what they bought and so now you the lease holders are being asked to save the resort. If my count is correct they did this in Mexico, Hawaii, Fairmont, REIT investors, Rafter Six and now Lake Okanagan. Isn't anyone else curious what they have asked for this time?


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## kevinjanny

Just under $4000 for us to get out.  Glad to be done with it.


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## Tacoma

Thanks for sharing the number. Once again 4000 x 50 owners per year(per unit) and they could almost rebuild the resort for that. I assume they had a number to stay too. At least you are aware that the courts are not ruling in our favor and will pay and move on. I am caught up in the legal nightmare. I just can't believe they get to do it again.


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## Lostmyshirt

Owner at LOR for many years.  It was my understanding it was bought out 3 years? ago by asian investors.............if so not the same company so who is sending letters for a buyout??  I have not received anything...makes you wonder if its old owners fishing for money?


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## Never Give Up

*RESORT OWNERS? Lake Okanagan.*

We are Time-Share Consumers at Sunchaser (was Fairmont). We were told your resort at Lake Okanagan was sold to Investors from China? Was this not true? Is it still Northwynd or Kirk Wankel et al. 

The reason I am asking is that we are involved in the court case and refuse to give up. Our next hearing is May 1st at 9am in Edmonton Ab. The last appearance saw 267 of us who attended court (there are around 842 of us in Alberta alone). The Judge was kind enough to change court rooms so that we could all fit in and watch. There's a lot of international history with these guys and I wish we could afford or figure out a way to hire an investigator to properly dig it all up. Im sure it would have potential for a good news story on W5 and 60 Minutes!


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## RippedOffAgain

This looks like old news. I just received my buyout letter. Looks like 3 options: stay in with "double or more more" maintenance fee, move to new building for FIVE years only at current maintenance fee ( specified for 2019 only) then release all claim, or take buyout by paying about 5 years of current fees now and getting no use. All seem like poor options to me.


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## Unhappycustomer

Lostmyshirt said:


> Owner at LOR for many years.  It was my understanding it was bought out 3 years? ago by asian investors.............if so not the same company so who is sending letters for a buyout??  I have not received anything...makes you wonder if its old owners fishing for money?


The letter came from Lake Okanagan Resort P.O. Box 32625 Richmond B.C. Phone number 1.844.769.2656
There is a deadline added for options choice- until January 15 2019. Options are 1. Continue with your timeshare agreement ... be advised that Maintenance Fees will likely be more than double 2019 fees.
Opt 2. Terminate timeshare agreement immediately -pay $3350 to do so Opt 3. Vary your timeshare agreement by transferring your timeshare interest to Lakeside Inn, and your timeshare agreement will terminate Dec 31, 2023.


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## Unhappycustomer

Never Give Up said:


> *RESORT OWNERS? Lake Okanagan.*
> 
> We are Time-Share Consumers at Sunchaser (was Fairmont). We were told your resort at Lake Okanagan was sold to Investors from China? Was this not true? Is it still Northwynd or Kirk Wankel et al.
> 
> The reason I am asking is that we are involved in the court case and refuse to give up. Our next hearing is May 1st at 9am in Edmonton Ab. The last appearance saw 267 of us who attended court (there are around 842 of us in Alberta alone). The Judge was kind enough to change court rooms so that we could all fit in and watch. There's a lot of international history with these guys and I wish we could afford or figure out a way to hire an investigator to properly dig it all up. Im sure it would have potential for a good news story on W5 and 60 Minutes!


No, I don’t think Northwynd is involved or KW. LOR was bought by some Asian billionaire ( or Asian Resort Company ) in 2014. The letter we got said that LOR is no longer sustainable as a timeshare community and so they plan to terminate all leases by the year 2023. They have said that Maintenance fees will most likely more than double if you don’t choose option 2- pay immediately a fee to terminate ($3350 ) or vary your agreement by transferring your interest exclusively to  Lakeside Inn, an old building in need of major work. Those transfers would  be owners from the Terrace building, an even older unit that needs even more work. We own a 3 bedroom unit in condo buildings on the golf course, and we are asked to transfer to a 1 bedroom unit in Lakeside as well, which are worse than the 3 bedroom units we own. Our 3bedroom unit is also in need of a major overhaul. The whole place has gone down hill since we bought in 2002.


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## Tacoma

Although Northwynd may not be involved directly this time their success in getting the timeshare lessees to pay to get out has set a precedent that is extremely scary to anyone that owns timeshares in Canada. It has given other companies the idea that they can use their leessees as ATM's. I still reel from the outcome of the northwynd fiasco to the tune of almost $24,000 to give back one week. The courts have allowed companies to charge their lessees to give back what they already paid for. It will always feel wrong. I certainly hope your outcome is better than ours (if you choose to fight) but my advice would be suck it up, pay the bill to get out and move on.


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## Unhappycustomer

Tacoma said:


> Although Northwynd may not be involved directly this time their success in getting the timeshare lessees to pay to get out has set a precedent that is extremely scary to anyone that owns timeshares in Canada. It has given other companies the idea that they can use their leessees as ATM's. I still reel from the outcome of the northwynd fiasco to the tune of almost $24,000 to give back one week. The courts have allowed companies to charge their lessees to give back what they already paid for. It will always feel wrong. I certainly hope your outcome is better than ours (if you choose to fight) but my advice would be suck it up, pay the bill to get out and move on.


I totally agree. We also owned at Fairmont and paid to get out. No doubt LOR saw what Fairmont/Northwynd did and are following suit. We owned biennial at Fairmont and so the cost to get out for us was around $1400. LOR is asking for $3350 regardless if you have a biennial lease (which we have ) and so we are seeing our lawyer to see how to get out of this one for a cheaper amount. LOR is saying that they are no longer sustainable as a timeshare community and say they plan to terminate all timeshare leases by 2023. And they expect us to pay for them to terminate the leases!  It’s incredible! And it also seems that they haven’t a clue what they are doing or haven’t thought it all out yet.
The courts are not on timeshare owner’s side for sure.


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## Barbara Mazur

kevinjanny said:


> Has anyone else received their buyout letter? It's kind of short notice, giving owners only until January 15 to come up with the money, but we want out so it's a done deal for us. For our own peace of mind, we're taking it to our lawyer to look over. Any thoughts?



We received a letter, and I posted here, UnhappyCustomer has spoken to a lawyer in Penticton, I am willing to start a class action, everyone needs to look at their contract and see if there is a limit to the amount that they can increase your annual/bi annual fees. Apparently contracts from around 1995 to 2003/4 have them. If so we may have a chance, if not the lawyer seems to have recommended that we pay to walk away.  If you are wanting to form a class action claim, (lawyer said would be about $3350) please try to find others in the same position and lets get together, my number is 250-640-2119  Barb M.


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## Unhappycustomer

No, we spoke to our Lawyer in Alberta. The Facebook group (Lake Okanagan Resort Timeshare Termination 2018- look it up and request to join) have spoken with a lawyer- Neil Wyper from Penticton. 11 or so folks sent him their Timeshare Agreements and he was surprised to see how many different contracts existed. Not everyone has the CPI Maintenance Fee raising  restriction, so those that do can question LOR and refuse to pay higher Maintenace fees, other than the CPI allows. I will post his response below.


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## Unhappycustomer

Unhappycustomer said:


> No, we spoke to our Lawyer in Alberta. The Facebook group (Lake Okanagan Resort Timeshare Termination 2018- look it up and request to join) have spoken with a lawyer- Neil Wyper from Penticton. 11 or so folks sent him their Timeshare Agreements and he was surprised to see how many different contracts existed. Not everyone has the CPI Maintenance Fee raising  restriction, so those that do can question LOR and refuse to pay higher Maintenace fees, other than the CPI allows. I will post his response below.





I'm surprised by how many variations of leases have been used. I've seen, I believe, 11 agreements so far.
Of those 11, the ones dated before January 1995, do not have a restriction on the increase in annual use fees. Unfortunately, one from September 1994 doesn't have a limit, but yours in January 1995 does.

Then, by 2004, a whole new agreement doesn't have a limit.

Here's where things get even more complicated. There was a dispute at a very similar timeshare at Fairmont Hot Springs. The owners had leases that were almost word-for-word the same as the one lease I saw from 2004, and the company wanted to drastically increase the annual fees. The owners fought the increase, and didn't pay their annual fees while the case worked through the courts. In the end, they lost, had to pay their lawyers and the company's legal fees, had to pay their annual fees plus interest, and were still stuck in the leases.
For anyone with a recent lease, probably anyone after 2004, they should do whatever they can to buy out of the lease. Fighting is very likely to be unsuccessful, for them. 
For anyone with an old lease, probably anyone before January 1995, even though the language is quite different than the Fairmont case, they're unlikely to successfully fight it, for the same reasons that the Fairmont owners lost.

That leaves the handful of people between 1995 and about 2002-2004, whose agreements say specifically that the annual fees will not increase by more than twice the annual consumer price index.
For this group, I think the options are to demand that your annual fees do not increase faster than you agreed to, but you still do not have a right to terminate the agreement before its time is up.


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## ecwinch

On a positive note, at least you are getting some reasonable legal advice. His note pretty much summarizes the legal issues that were ruled on in the Fairmont actions, and the risks associated with continued litigation. Especially the final paragraph.

Because spending $3k+ to join a class action sounds too much like the path (or ride) that Fairmont's lawyer took those owners on. The key thing to remember is that there is only one guaranteed winner in any lawsuit - the lawyer racking up billable hrs. There is even a joke along those lines in the legal circles.

And I would agree with the posts above. The clarity offered by the courts rulings on Fairmont is the driver in these recent actions.


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## ecwinch

Doubling back after reading the outcome of the Northmont appeal that was posted yesterday.

After reading it, I realize that there is one difference between the two situations that is material. At the heart of many of Northmont's claims was the issue of misrepresentation. However given how the Northmont owners presented their case, the court has ruled many times that their lawyers effectively waived those claims in an early proceeding. To the extent that raising them again in other cases and on appeal, was an abuse of process.

Here that is not true. So litigation on the basis of mis-representation is not impacted by the rulings in Northmont. It is likely still an uphill climb on that issue, but Northmont has no bearing on it.

Unlike the substantive issues of law that the court has ruled on - i.e. ability to terminate the lease, responsibility for increased operating expenses from defaulting owners, responsibility for capital expenses, etc.


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## Unhappycustomer

ecwinch said:


> On a positive note, at least you are getting some reasonable legal advice. His note pretty much summarizes the legal issues that were ruled on in the Fairmont actions, and the risks associated with continued litigation. Especially the final paragraph.
> 
> Because spending $3k+ to join a class action sounds too much like the path (or ride) that Fairmont's lawyer took those owners on. The key thing to remember is that there is only one guaranteed winner in any lawsuit - the lawyer racking up billable hrs. There is even a joke along those lines in the legal circles.
> 
> And I would agree with the posts above. The clarity offered by the courts rulings on Fairmont is the driver in these recent actions.


Your words “ there is only one guaranteed winner in any lawsuit-the Lawyer..” is so true! Taking them to court will cost way more than paying the termination fee unfortunately, and if you lose you are still stuck with the timeshare. In the LOR case, we all got a letter saying that all Timeshare agreements will be terminated in 2023 though. So I’m wondering how they are going to do that for those of us who refuse to pay to get out now, and who have the the clause re restriction on raising fees beyond CPI. We are planning to wait it out and see.


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## ecwinch

I would equally concerned about what happens if you win. It sounds like the resort is in decline, and a victory in a court is not going to reverse that. So I would really press any lawyer who is advocating a lawsuit, for a very candid assessment of what a “win” means.


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## Unhappycustomer

ecwinch said:


> I would equally concerned about what happens if you win. It sounds like the resort is in decline, and a victory in a court is not going to reverse that. So I would really press any lawyer who is advocating a lawsuit, for a very candid assessment of what a “win” means.


Yes, a win is not what we want, and no lawyer so far has advocated for a lawsuit. We want out of the timeshare agreement for the very reasons you stated. The place is in decline, and so we are waiting to see what LOR will say to us 3 bedroom unit owners who have not paid to terminate, or agreed to transfer from a 3 bedroom/ sleep 8 unit to a 1 bedroom/sleep 4, on a 5 year contract. There was a deadline given to accept the termination option, or the transfer option ( Jan 15) so I won’t be surprised if they try to get more money from the folks that decided to wait and ride it out. But , they have said that they plan to terminate ALL timeshares by 2023, which they can’t do legally! So hopefully by then, if what they are saying is true, they will let us ,who are still there , walk away with no fee! Might be wishful thinking on our part.


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## Unhappycustomer

Also, with Fairmont, they were continuing on as a timeshare community, so owners had the choice to terminate or pay to stay. LOR is saying they can’t sustain a timeshare community, so they want rid of the timeshare owners. So that is totally different! They can’t make us pay to terminate our agreement, when they want to be free of timeshare owners, and not continue on with units that are timeshares.


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## ecwinch

Unhappycustomer said:


> The place is in decline, and so we are waiting to see what LOR will say to us 3 bedroom unit owners who have not paid to terminate, or agreed to transfer from a 3 bedroom/ sleep 8 unit to a 1 bedroom/sleep 4, on a 5 year contract.



Are you in the group mentioned above (1995-2004) that has explicit language regarding a cap on m/f increases? If not there is a lot of risk you are taking on.

Because you are correct that they cannot unilaterally terminate your contract, but they have a fair amount of latitude to raise the m/f's and assessments to make it more expensive to wait it out. Because the option for you to pay to cancel the lease is at their discretion. They can terminate it at any time or even jack up the costs to do so significantly.


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## Unhappycustomer

Yes- we have the clause which says they can’t raise our fees more than the consumer price index. So we figure why pay them a termination fee? If they really are going to terminate the leases , then we will willingly give ours up, without paying them any money.


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## Used & Not Amused

kevinjanny said:


> Just under $4000 for us to get out.  Glad to be done with it.


In speaking with a lawyer, it is recommended that we send LOR a release letter for them to sign prior to $ being sent to them, stating that with our buyout we are finished with the agreement and LOR cannot come back for more money. Did you or anyone else have anything like this prepared for you?


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## kevinjanny

Used & Not Amused said:


> In speaking with a lawyer, it is recommended that we send LOR a release letter for them to sign prior to $ being sent to them, stating that with our buyout we are finished with the agreement and LOR cannot come back for more money. Did you or anyone else have anything like this prepared for you?



We requested a letter be sent releasing us of any other financial obligation to LOR. This was sent to us within a few days after they received payment.


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## Emil

Unhappycustomer said:


> Yes, a win is not what we want, and no lawyer so far has advocated for a lawsuit. We want out of the timeshare agreement for the very reasons you stated. The place is in decline, and so we are waiting to see what LOR will say to us 3 bedroom unit owners who have not paid to terminate, or agreed to transfer from a 3 bedroom/ sleep 8 unit to a 1 bedroom/sleep 4, on a 5 year contract. There was a deadline given to accept the termination option, or the transfer option ( Jan 15) so I won’t be surprised if they try to get more money from the folks that decided to wait and ride it out. But , they have said that they plan to terminate ALL timeshares by 2023, which they can’t do legally! So hopefully by then, if what they are saying is true, they will let us ,who are still there , walk away with no fee! Might be wishful thinking on our part.


Their letter said they would like to terminate all timeshares by 2023 not that they would terminate them by 2023.


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## InheritedThisShit

so what happens if we don't pay... I've been to court with a renter situation a few times and the judge says... one of you will walk out of here with a piece of paper stating the other owes you $$$'s but it isn't enforced by the courts. I have to know where the person works or banks to serve them with a notice to garnishee wages or bank account. I'm pretty sure they have no idea where I bank or work so screw them. Sure my credit score might go down but I'm in my mid 50's who cares.

What do others think?


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## Emil

InheritedThisShit said:


> so what happens if we don't pay... I've been to court with a renter situation a few times and the judge says... one of you will walk out of here with a piece of paper stating the other owes you $$$'s but it isn't enforced by the courts. I have to know where the person works or banks to serve them with a notice to garnishee wages or bank account. I'm pretty sure they have no idea where I bank or work so screw them. Sure my credit score might go down but I'm in my mid 50's who cares.
> 
> What do others think?


They know your address and they will send a collection agency to get money from you. They would probably be able to find out where you work.


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## InheritedThisShit

Emil said:


> They know your address and they will send a collection agency to get money from you. They would probably be able to find out where you work.



I've even had a collection agency come after me... they put the bad debt on my credit score. But you don't have to pay them either. It's just a pretty piece of paper like the judge said.


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## Granjan

We have 2 timeshares at LOR, one annual and one biennial purchased in 2004. In 2010 we converted to the RCI points system to get more flexibility in trading our weeks. Right now we have on deposit 67000 points. We were planning to use them plus our 2019 points to go to Hawaii in the fall. If we pay the buyout fee then what happens to our already paid for RCI points? That’s another $1000 down the drain! Anyone else in this situation?


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## JerBear77

My lawyer friend today discussed with me the Annual Use Fee which according to my lease agreement states that it is to be used for Operating Costs & Replacement Reserve. Under the definition of both of these items it states that they are to be used for "Maintenance and repair of the Vacation Resort and the units" as well as a "reserve for repair to both exterior and interior of the units". If the Resort is "no longer sustainable" as written in the letter to owners, then it sounds to me that the Lease has already been broken. 

I think the new owners just want the Timeshare community out and is trying to bully us in to terminating our leases by threatening large increases in the Annual Use Fee. For one I will not take this laying down and just hand over more money.

I have phoned the office multiple times and been sent to voicemail with a full mailbox so I couldn't leave a message as well as sent emails that have gone without reply. 

We need to stand up for ourselves. How can we get a list of all the owners at LOR so we can stand together?


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## Tom R123

Has anyone paid the buyout fee and had issues with receiving a release from LOR?


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## JerBear77

I just phoned LOR and got a new message "we are unable to take your call right now. Please leave a message or for a faster response send an email..." Well, of course the mailbox is full and I have sent emails over the past weeks and still have not got a response.

This is ridiculous!


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## JerBear77

I just filed a complaint with Consumer Protection B. C.
Everyone should.


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## bogey21

InheritedThisShit said:


> so what happens if we don't pay...



This would be appealing to me but I, who never consults with lawyers, would make an exception here and talk to a lawyer first to see what they can do to you if you (1) totally ignore them and (2) just flat never send them any money no matter what.  It could be a viable solution if you have the stomach to handle the repercussions but you must understand the possible consequences first...

George


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## confusedowner

Hi All, With a week left to go before LOR's deadline of January 15th to choose an option, I am still confused but very grateful to all who have written their questions and advice on this forum. I never had any reply from LOR, nor any help from the Resort itself, and the voicemail was full. I am leaning towards Option 1, but in their letter, they simply request the 2019 Maintenance fee. As I am a biannual owner, I should not have to pay until 2020, but I am worried about incurring their wrath if I don't send them any money to placate them. (I purchased a one-bedroom in 1997). Any suggestions? (Thanks for the link to the FB group, I have registered but am waiting for approval.


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## Emil

The letter was general and mainly aimed at annual owners. If I were you, I would not send them MF until 2020. Have you got a clause in your contract restricting the increase in MF to the CPI?


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## JerBear77

My contract restricts the annual use fee increase to the CPI BUT after what happened to the investors in Fairmont I am still scared that the new owners have slipped a new clause by us somehow. I want out of this so bad but it just irks me to have to pay to do so. 
I am tempted to take option #3 since I am a biennial owner on even years but I'm afraid that they will never have enough units available to accommodate everyone that switches over.

HELP!!


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## JerBear77

I just found a clause that I didn't pay attention to before.

Article VII Vacationer's Obligation for Payment
7.1 Notice of Assessment. The vacationer covenants and agrees to pay Vacation Ltd. the amount set forth in any Notice of Annual Use Fee or Notice of Abnormal Damage or in any other notice issued pursuant to the terms of this agreement within 30 days after the date of such notice. 

Is this how they will get us in the end? They can send us any notice of assessment and we have to pay? It also states the interest on any amount past due will be 26.824% per year. This sounds too much like the Fairmont court ruling. Even after fighting for years the owners still have to pay the assessment PLUS 26.824% INTEREST

HELP! HELP!


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## JerBear77

OK, I did it. I sent them a cheque. I still think they are a bunch of lying thieves but I don't want to be under their thumb any more.


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## Prinsus

With today being the deadline for first payment (we opted to pay them out, Jan 15, 2019 $1,675 and the balance Mar 15, 2019) being due, I was curious to what everyone else is doing?  We have decided to pay and be done with it because we are applying for a mortgage in the next few months and a worried that they may place something on our credit file.


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## Cathy Drader

We are riding it out - have re-booked our September week that we were previously refunded for.  We are Sleep 8 owners, and Jady has told us that we have until mid-2019 to see what they are doing about the Sleep 8s.  I guess we are taking the chance that they may charge MORE than the $3350 for now, but the way we see it, if we can get three more holidays out of it for roughly the same amount of money as terminating (and getting nothing) then we are going to try.  Not a fun situation to be in.  We paid to get out of our timeshare at Fairmont, and are not inclined to go down without a fight this time.  And it might be late notice, but there is a Facebook group with almost 140 members talking about this.  https://www.facebook.com/groups/251552458822207/?ref=bookmarks


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## InheritedThisShit

I'm not sure what unit the sleep 8 are in but the place was disgusting when we stayed in Sept.2018.
you can see my pic's on the FB group.


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## miracleNAMES

kevinjanny said:


> Has anyone else received their buyout letter? It's kind of short notice, giving owners only until January 15 to come up with the money, but we want out so it's a done deal for us. For our own peace of mind, we're taking it to our lawyer to look over. Any thoughts?



Hi Kevin;  I decided not to pay the "termination fee", and my lawyer agreed.  Interestingly, when I emailed the contact in Richmond twice, asking what happened to the 977 people who last year refused to pay their maintenance fees,  I got no answer -twice.  But when I asked what happened if I did nothing, I got an immediate reply that doing nothing was equal to choosing option 1 - continuing with the timeshare.  Since I have a 99-year lease from 1992, they told me that yes, I could continue to use the timeshare till 2091 (!!) as long as I paid the maintenance fee each year.  Quick response on that one - and silence re the result of defaulting on the fee. 
What did you end up doing?  I have not paid for 2019 and do not plan on doing so.  I'm willing to let the timeshare go but legally and ethically if they want us out (and I'm sure they do)  they should be buying us out, not the other way round.  
Any other owners willing to weigh in on this? 
Cathrine


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## miracleNAMES

kevinjanny said:


> Has anyone else received their buyout letter? It's kind of short notice, giving owners only until January 15 to come up with the money, but we want out so it's a done deal for us. For our own peace of mind, we're taking it to our lawyer to look over. Any thoughts?


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## miracleNAMES

Hi Kevin,
 I decided not to pay the "termination fee" and my lawyer agreed. Getting no satisfaction from calling the contact number, I emailed asking what happened if I did not choose an option. The prompt reply was that doing nothing equalled choosing option 1, retaining the timeshare till the lease runs out. Mine is a 99 year lease, bought in 1992, so they confirmed (promptly) that I could continue to use the timeshare till 2091 (!) provided I paid the maintenance fee each year. However, when I emailed asking what happened to the 997 people who defaulted on their fees last year,  I got no reply - twice. I'm willing to let this timeshare go, but I'm damned if I'm paying them to take it back. They should be buying us out. They obviously want to be rid of all timeshare owners. 
Cathrine


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## DKon

miracleNAMES said:


> Hi Kevin;  I decided not to pay the "termination fee", and my lawyer agreed.  Interestingly, when I emailed the contact in Richmond twice, asking what happened to the 977 people who last year refused to pay their maintenance fees,  I got no answer -twice.  But when I asked what happened if I did nothing, I got an immediate reply that doing nothing was equal to choosing option 1 - continuing with the timeshare.  Since I have a 99-year lease from 1992, they told me that yes, I could continue to use the timeshare till 2091 (!!) as long as I paid the maintenance fee each year.  Quick response on that one - and silence re the result of defaulting on the fee.
> What did you end up doing?  I have not paid for 2019 and do not plan on doing so.  I'm willing to let the timeshare go but legally and ethically if they want us out (and I'm sure they do)  they should be buying us out, not the other way round.
> Any other owners willing to weigh in on this?
> Cathrine



We paid the 2019 fee and intend to use the booking during our standard week in July. Our contract situation is similar to yours (99 year lease, initiated in 1992, etc.). The bigger question is what happens next year when the fee is doubled or tripled? They do "warn" that due to falling owner numbers, growing delinquent accounts and the overall degenerating property conditon the fees will be significantly increased. 

My first reaction to this is to say how's this my issue?! The problems with unpaid accounts, dropping subscribers and escalating costs of property maintenance & repair are management issues. Simply jacking up the fees to cover the problems created by mismanagement is unethical and goes against the contract we all agreed to. More importantly, one of the clauses in my contract stipulates thaft fees are not to increase more than 10% annually (which is already 5x the current inflation rate):

Article V (Annual Use Fees) - Section 5.2 Method of Calculation
The Annual Use Fee shall be an amount which includes the portion of the Operating Costs and Replacement Reserve attributable from time to time to the Vacation Interval during which the Vacationer is entitled to use of the Vacation Unit hereunder. The Annual Use Fee for each Vacation Interval which falls within the 1992 calendar year shall be $290.00. The Annual Use Fee for each Vacation Interval which falls within each calendar year thereafter shall be increased annually by such percentage as may be necessary to offset any increase in Operating Costs and the Replacement Reserve over such costs for the 1992 calendar year, *but in no event shall be increased by more than 10% per year cumulatively during the five year period commencing January 1, 1993. *[emphasis mine]

Does anyone else interpret that last line to mean that after 5 yeas (i.e., after 1998) the percentage increase can be anything the management wants?


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## kevinjanny

I 


miracleNAMES said:


> Hi Kevin;  I decided not to pay the "termination fee", and my lawyer agreed.  Interestingly, when I emailed the contact in Richmond twice, asking what happened to the 977 people who last year refused to pay their maintenance fees,  I got no answer -twice.  But when I asked what happened if I did nothing, I got an immediate reply that doing nothing was equal to choosing option 1 - continuing with the timeshare.  Since I have a 99-year lease from 1992, they told me that yes, I could continue to use the timeshare till 2091 (!!) as long as I paid the maintenance fee each year.  Quick response on that one - and silence re the result of defaulting on the fee.
> What did you end up doing?  I have not paid for 2019 and do not plan on doing so.  I'm willing to let the timeshare go but legally and ethically if they want us out (and I'm sure they do)  they should be buying us out, not the other way round.
> Any other owners willing to weigh in on this?
> Cathrine




We paid to get out within days of my original post. For us it all boiled down to the fact that we could see the resort condition declining, and did not want to spend our vacation time there. We ended up using it for trades, and when we added up our cost of trading (rising maintenance fees, RCI fees) vs renting from Vrbo or Airbnb, it was an easy decision for us. Plus at the end of a rental, we can just walk away without any more financial commitments. We didn’t feel good about it, but it just made the most sense in our situation.


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## DKon

We just got the notice for 2020 maintenance fees today (Nov 28 2019). Our fees went up 15% - a far cry from the "more than double" they threatened everyone with last year.

They also added the lease termination "offer" for $3780. Interestingly, last year's offer was $3450.


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## UK owner

We are UK citizens living in the UK.   We bought at LOR in 2002 but due to change in circumstances we asked to terminate the lease and this was done though the office at Northwynd.  We don't have any documentation to support this.  I now think that they only took us off the system and the lease remained in our name as after hearing nothing for over 10 years we received a letter a week ago with the offer of a buy out for $3350 but 10 years worth of maintenance fees plus interest to pay!  

I got back to them straightaway and they replied by return offering to terminate the lease for $500, which we paid but this may not result in it being terminated if we don’t pay the outstanding fees.  Anything over 6 years is statute barred. 

I'm tempted to assume they won't chase it through the courts here in the UK but on the other hand I don’t want it hanging over us for years.

Any thoughts from those of you who are well versed in all this


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## Disappointed Canadian

We are now having a credit company come after us for our maintenance fee.  This just started but they are relentless.   We are ignoring them.  I don’t plan on giving them one cent.  We fought and lost with Fairmont/Sunchaser’s/Northmont and lost.  We are making payments to them and I am done with this.  Lake Okanagan told RCI to not let us use our points so why would I pay them.  I am not sure why RCI would do this as at the time we were up to date with payments with Lake Okanagan.   I wouldn’t step foot on their property as it is awful now.  Never was that good but they conned us into buying.  Our fault I know.  What is everyone doing.  I can’t be the only one.  They should be paying us as we owned a little piece of the place.


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## servemeout

We now have a second credit company wanting payment, which we will not be doing.  Items for consideration:
1.In Alberta the Statute of Limitations changed Dec 15/2019.  It is now 2 years.
2. Under the new Consumer Protection Act you have the right to request a statement of you account.  We know that the original sale of LOR did NOT include the timeshares.  If the accounting is not provided to you within 30 days , the collection agency must cease all collection activity and not resume any activity until accounting is provided.  Refer to section 23.2(1) of the Act.  We would like to know who are the present owners and how did they get ownership of the timeshares. 
3. We got a letter stating that LOR is no longer sustainable as a timeshare community.  Por que would we want to pay for something that is not going to exist.  There is also an Act called the Fair Trading Act.  
4. Judge Young ruled on the interest rate that can be charged on VIAs that predated 2004. Decision date was Feb 28,2018.  Only 5% per annum can be charged.
5. It is our opinion that the termination amount ($3,350) is not realistic. There is a provision in the CPA for overcharging for goods and services.  
The amount that LOR claims we owe continues to change, however we know what it is worth - tie a quarter to the contract before you throw it away, that way the person finding it has something of value. The place was a dump the last time we were there which was 17 years ago and we are sure that it is still a dump.


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## tonyhelor

servemeout said:


> We now have a second credit company wanting payment, which we will not be doing.  Items for consideration:
> 1.In Alberta the Statute of Limitations changed Dec 15/2019.  It is now 2 years.
> 2. Under the new Consumer Protection Act you have the right to request a statement of you account.  We know that the original sale of LOR did NOT include the timeshares.  If the accounting is not provided to you within 30 days , the collection agency must cease all collection activity and not resume any activity until accounting is provided.  Refer to section 23.2(1) of the Act.  We would like to know who are the present owners and how did they get ownership of the timeshares.
> 3. We got a letter stating that LOR is no longer sustainable as a timeshare community.  Por que would we want to pay for something that is not going to exist.  There is also an Act called the Fair Trading Act.
> 4. Judge Young ruled on the interest rate that can be charged on VIAs that predated 2004. Decision date was Feb 28,2018.  Only 5% per annum can be charged.
> 5. It is our opinion that the termination amount ($3,350) is not realistic. There is a provision in the CPA for overcharging for goods and services.
> The amount that LOR claims we owe continues to change, however we know what it is worth - tie a quarter to the contract before you throw it away, that way the person finding it has something of value. The place was a dump the last time we were there which was 17 years ago and we are sure that it is still a dump.


I have a week in odd years with LOR. The collection company after me as well. I do agree your considerations. But, what are the steps to cease their activities?


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## servemeout

In Ontario, Alberta, and Nova Scotia there is a “three strikes” rule, limiting collection agents from emailing you, leaving a voicemail, or speaking with you more than three times within a seven-day period after having an initial conversation with you.  I would suggest that if you are called to get the persons' name and keep a log of the time and date you were contacted.   If this rule is violated you have the right to file a complaint with Service Alberta.  You also have the right to request a Statement of your account.  Here is the info on the statement of account:
Accounting 23.2(1) A collection agency must provide the debtor on request with a complete accounting of all the details of the debt and, if such an accounting is not in the possession of the collection agency, the agency must request that the creditor provide it. (2) If, within 30 days after receiving a request for an accounting from a collection agency, the creditor has not provided a complete accounting of the debt, the collection agency must (a) inform the debtor in writing that it cannot provide the accounting and the reasons for it, and (b) cease all collection activity for that account and not resume collection activity until the accounting is provided. (3) A debtor may request a complete accounting only once every 6 months, unless the collection agency fails to provide the complete accounting as requested. (4) This section comes into force on March 1, 2006. AR 3/2006 s21.  I would suggest that the request be both snail and email.  Presently, one more contact to us will result in a complaint being filed.  They are also not allowed to threaten you in any way.  Remember that they have to have a court order to enforce collection.  Our opinion that this is an attempt of grabbing low hanging fruit before the place slides into the lake.  The agency has contacted us 4 times in the last 4 days, one more and we will be requesting the accounting and filing a complaint.  
The letter from Nov 6,2018, stated that LOR is no longer a sustainable as a timeshare community and all timeshare leases will be terminate by December 31,2023.  Read that to a judge.


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## Disappointed Canadian

Thanks Servemeout for all your information.  I live in Edmonton as well.  We have a timeshare with Vidanta in Mexico and while there we met people who are going through this as well so there are lots of us out there.  There were livid with the whole scenario.  I do have to say we are very happy with Vidanta.  It is gorgeous and if you just stay away from the sales people you will have a great time.  We already own there so don’t do the sales pitch any more. There you only pay if you are using your time.  Not like Lake Okanagan and Fairmont.

I haven’t talked to the credit people yet but I \eventually will. Actually my husband wants to do it even though this nightmare is in my name.  I ALSO think they are just trying to get a quick cash grab but you never know.  They are crooks so you never know,  I never know if it is the old crooks or new crooks.  Disgusting people anyways.  I don’t think l will ever get over what Northmont put me through with the Fairmont Sunchaser’s thing.


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## DJD1946

Not sure if this is good or bad for us LOR timeshare owners?
Apparently many of the facilities we thought were part of our lease are no longer part of LOR.
It might be them (LOR) breaking our lease?
*Email from Okanagan Beach Club*, response to my request for more info on the LBC

*From: *"Okanagan Beach Club" <info@obcresort.ca>
*To: *"doug" <doug@thedarlings.ca>
*Sent: *Tuesday, August 18, 2020 8:46:35 PM
*Subject: *Okanagan Beach Club
Hi Doug,

We took over everything on the resort except the hotel side in February this year.

Let me know if you have any other questions and have a great evening 


Ryan Hargreaves
Owner

Okanagan Beach Club and Event Center
Tel: 2508785550
Web: www.obcresort.ca


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## PG1961

Unhappycustomer said:


> I'm surprised by how many variations of leases have been used. I've seen, I believe, 11 agreements so far.
> Of those 11, the ones dated before January 1995, do not have a restriction on the increase in annual use fees. Unfortunately, one from September 1994 doesn't have a limit, but yours in January 1995 does.
> 
> Then, by 2004, a whole new agreement doesn't have a limit.
> 
> Here's where things get even more complicated. There was a dispute at a very similar timeshare at Fairmont Hot Springs. The owners had leases that were almost word-for-word the same as the one lease I saw from 2004, and the company wanted to drastically increase the annual fees. The owners fought the increase, and didn't pay their annual fees while the case worked through the courts. In the end, they lost, had to pay their lawyers and the company's legal fees, had to pay their annual fees plus interest, and were still stuck in the leases.
> For anyone with a recent lease, probably anyone after 2004, they should do whatever they can to buy out of the lease. Fighting is very likely to be unsuccessful, for them.
> For anyone with an old lease, probably anyone before January 1995, even though the language is quite different than the Fairmont case, they're unlikely to successfully fight it, for the same reasons that the Fairmont owners lost.
> 
> That leaves the handful of people between 1995 and about 2002-2004, whose agreements say specifically that the annual fees will not increase by more than twice the annual consumer price index.
> For this group, I think the options are to demand that your annual fees do not increase faster than you agreed to, but you still do not have a right to terminate the agreement before its time is up.


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## PG1961

Unhappycustomer said:


> Yes- we have the clause which says they can’t raise our fees more than the consumer price index. So we figure why pay them a termination fee? If they really are going to terminate the leases , then we will willingly give ours up, without paying them any money.



How do I get ahold of you?    can I call you     PG1961  or you can call me  778 689 2521


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## william9876

1) I did not receive any communication letters (buy out or otherwise) during the 2014 takeover, the 2016 buyout letter, 2018 or 2019 buyout letters. Is the onus not on LOR (or associated owners) to prove they have attempted communication?

2) any updates to anything in general?
- e.g. more letters?
- are people paying?
- what is the status of people that had collection agency after them?


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## timeshare hell

I purchased my timeshare in 1997. It’s for a fixed week in July annually. Each year it is more difficult to deal/communicate with them.
in December of 2018 I signed a document agreeing to the conditions of option 3. I continue to pay/rent up to, including summer of 2023. My contract is over and there is no cancellation fee. that is my understanding. Can others please comment on this. I had a similar post over a year ago but no longer see it.


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## timeshare hell

if anyone has any information at all about the 2023 contract termination with no cancellation fees, I can be reached at,   mariedeb56@yahoo.com


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