# Marriott is now the largest Destination Club in the World



## PerryM (Jul 4, 2010)

First there was the RC DC.

Then on June 21, 2010 Marriott Vacation Club International stopped selling timeshares and became the largest DC in the world - over night.

I've spent the last 2 weeks analyzing what Marriott did and my conclusion is that their new 100% Points program is not a timeshare organization anymore they are a Destination Club - the largest in the world.

I know they have 3BRs and they might have a few 4BRs but Marriott now is looking at buying 10 very nice villas in Tuscany Italy to go along with an Excursion Package they have while there.

Marriott is going to sell a complete destination adventure to folks - a place to stay and things to do while there.

The new program is 100% Points with a Master Trust of Deeds and what they now sell are Beneficial Interests (BIs) which are a portion of that Master Trust worth 250 Vacation Points in a year.

Each Point costs $10 or you can put up your Marriott timeshare week in exchange for yearly Points and still retain control over that deed.

Each Point is roughly equivalent to $1 in rent - so a 3BR ocean front condo in Maui has Marriott renting it for $8,000 for the week, as an example, there would be 8,000 Points required to get 7 days there.

You can reserve 1 day to 30+ days at a time checking in on ANY day of the week.

Anyway if some of this rings a bell its because this is very similar to my ideal DC plan I showed you guys.

Have a great 4th of July...


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## travelguy (Jul 4, 2010)

PerryM said:


> Anyway if some of this rings a bell its because this is very similar to my ideal DC plan I showed you guys.



So you're saying your idea is what's behind the current Marriott system restructuring debacle???


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## Bourne (Jul 4, 2010)

PerryM, 

I'll keep it simple. 

Having spend 8-10+ years on these forums, I have seen and remember it all(even with all those deleted posts ). The pendulum swings so much that it's downright scary.


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## BocaBum99 (Jul 4, 2010)

PerryM said:


> First there was the RC DC.
> 
> Then on June 21, 2010 Marriott Vacation Club International stopped selling timeshares and became the largest DC in the world - over night.
> 
> ...



No, it didn't ring a bell as your plan.  But, I was wondering if you are actually Al Gore.  Didn't you invent the internet?


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## BocaBum99 (Jul 4, 2010)

Perry.  You are the Jon Stewart of timesharing.  You offer an interesting and often times funny point of view.  But, a serious analyst you are not.


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## Kagehitokiri2 (Jul 4, 2010)

or not.

any exchange = not DC.

which really makes me wonder about RC's "DC" as it is just unsold fractional inventory, as well as deposited weeks from fractional owners (up to 2 weeks per owner according to *PerryM*)


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## PerryM (Jul 4, 2010)

travelguy said:


> So you're saying your idea is what's behind the current Marriott system restructuring debacle???



Hey my DC plan is still out there folks www.PerryM.com - out there since Jan of 2009.  I'm assuming Marriott hires folks who can read


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## PerryM (Jul 4, 2010)

BocaBum99 said:


> Perry.  You are the Jon Stewart of timesharing.  You offer an interesting and often times funny point of view.  But, a serious analyst you are not.



Thanks BB I'll take that as a complement or is it insult???

Oh well, happy Independence Day - those guys had crazy ideas too....


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## PerryM (Jul 4, 2010)

Bourne said:


> PerryM,
> 
> I'll keep it simple.
> 
> Having spend 8-10+ years on these forums, I have seen and remember it all(even with all those deleted posts ). The pendulum swings so much that it's downright scary.



While the DC industry imploded Marriott has taken it over and moved beyond.

Let's see what they do next - 5 year to build 400+ timeshare condo complex or buying ready-to-occupy condos to add at all their new destinations.

They can supply the airline tickets, 1st class if you like, and arrange for ocean cruises while you vacation.

My bet is on buying existing condos and demonstration how DCs work for a Fortune 500 company.


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## JimIg23 (Jul 4, 2010)

PerryM said:


> Let's see what they do next - 5 year to build 400+ timeshare condo complex or buying ready-to-occupy condos to add at all their new destinations.



Just hope it is not like the other clubs where they buy 5 condos in one place.  400k members going after 5 units will get them no where fast....


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## TarheelTraveler (Jul 5, 2010)

Thanks for posting, PerryM.  Very interesting change in the industry.  Seems like the TUG posters are mostly unimpressed, but I suspect the average Marriott owner will be more receptive to the new program.

I'll try posting one of my questions over here.  

"Anyone read enough of the Marriott threads to know whether under their new points program, you can get into the Ritz-Carltons from the timeshares, or conversely from the RC DC into the timeshares?"

Also, at $10/point, assuming PerryM's example is typical, wouldn't this be the world's most expensive DC by far (assuming you think it's a DC)?  Specifically, doesn't that mean the week in Maui is priced at $80,000 or over $4M for the year for the 3BR condo?  Or are some weeks significantly less, therefore, ratcheting down the overall cost some?

Doesn't seem like buying 10 villas in Italy would come close to meeting the demand, but maybe you price it high enough to squelch demand, but then again that goes to my fundamental question about the cost of the "DC."

It'll be interesting to see what kind of traction Marriott gets on this.  I still think it's harder to sell points than something more tangible like nights.


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## PerryM (Jul 5, 2010)

TarheelTraveler said:


> Thanks for posting, PerryM.  Very interesting change in the industry.  Seems like the TUG posters are mostly unimpressed, but I suspect the average Marriott owner will be more receptive to the new program.
> 
> I'll try posting one of my questions over here.
> 
> ...



Marriott is really into the concept of "Pre-construction pricing" - all their resorts were built and financed that way.

The new DC will go that route too - folks who own Marriott weeks can use it as collateral into the new program but I don't expect mush in 2011 in way of inventory.  I do see Marriott buying upgraded villas at existing resorts for 2011 - those units will be in high demand.

But Marriott seems to be offering a complete destination experience - they can now handle just about everything a member wants from portal-to-portal (airport terminal).  They will simply start creating destinations that their Marriott Reward Points packages can supply the airline tickets and Marriott hotel or just the tickets with a DC there to stay at.

I don't know if they can connect with the RC-DC - I'll try to find out.

But for now pre-construction pricing is going to bring a lot of instant inventory in their timeshares and new Beneficial Interests of 250 Points for $2,500 means instant cash to buy existing condos/homes at a destination where they can supply everything else to go with that destination.

Will it replace the $4M condo - no. Will it replace the $1M condo - you betcha.  Lets see what happens in the next year.


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## PerryM (Jul 5, 2010)

TarheelTraveler said:


> Thanks for posting, PerryM.  Very interesting change in the industry.  Seems like the TUG posters are mostly unimpressed, but I suspect the average Marriott owner will be more receptive to the new program.
> 
> I'll try posting one of my questions over here.
> 
> ...



I'm enrolling our only Marriott we now own a Gold Summit Watch week in Park City, UT.  The total cost to me to buy it resale, 5 years ago, with the new enrollment fee comes out to $7,000.

With that 7,000 I get 2,150 Vacation Points (Points) that cost folks entering the Marriott sales gallery $21,500.

I can bank those Points forward 1 year and so next year I have 4,300 Points and that will get us to a 1BR in Maui at during Christmas week.

That condo is easily worth $1M.

So I'm going to be a DC owner and it will cost me an additional $1,495 enrollment fee.

Welcome me home guys - tomorrow I become a DC member!!!


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## puckmanfl (Jul 5, 2010)

good morning!!!

Perry...

Do you believe there will the MOC 1 bedroom Xmas week will be available on "point" inventory???

just curious as to your thoughts/insights on eligibility of "primo" weeks.

It is my thought that concerns about availability of "primo" weeks on points are not well founded.   I know all about the 11 resorts in the trust, but the worst nightmare for MVCD would be on opening day for points trading (7/26) a ton of new owners start screaming "$60K and all I can do is go to Orlando!!!".  I do realize that "weeks" players have to convert to create inventory, but my guru says a surprising number of weeks come from MRP conversion and delinquencies that have previously deposited in II that will now go to points. I inquired as to why a Mountainside ski week ($4000 rental value) might give up the unit for 110K points?  I was informed that it happens more than you can imagine!!!


My plan is to enroll, always keep a high trade power week  and a small "chip" (studio) in II to have an ongoing search and to play the "flexchange" game.  The other units will stay in weeks and survey the point inventory and convert as needed!!!


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## TarheelTraveler (Jul 5, 2010)

PerryM said:


> I'm enrolling our only Marriott we now own a Gold Summit Watch week in Park City, UT.  The total cost to me to buy it resale, 5 years ago, with the new enrollment fee comes out to $7,000.
> 
> With that 7,000 I get 2,150 Vacation Points (Points) that cost folks entering the Marriott sales gallery $21,500.
> 
> ...



This makes perfect sense for you.  It seems like a very good arbitrage, PerryM.   You paid 1/3 of the cost as compared to a new owner in your example.

However, I don't get the pricing for a new owner.  To get the 4,300 points for a 1BR in Maui at Xmas, I'd spend $43,000.


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## PerryM (Jul 5, 2010)

TarheelTraveler said:


> This makes perfect sense for you.  It seems like a very good arbitrage, PerryM.   You paid 1/3 of the cost as compared to a new owner in your example.
> 
> However, I don't get the pricing for a new owner.  To get the 4,300 points for a 1BR in Maui at Xmas, I'd spend $43,000.



Yes and no.  (I always win debates that way)

A 2BR at the new Marriott towers ocean front for New Years runs 9,000 Points because Marriott will rent the room for cash for $9,000.

You can buy 9,000 Points for $90k or you can buy 3,000 Points for $30k and bank them forward until 2012 and in 2012 borrow 3,000 form 2013 resulting in 9,000 Points for 2011 which can snag the reservation.

MF is 40 cents per Point.

This 2BR villa is probably a $3M condo.


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## PerryM (Jul 5, 2010)

puckmanfl said:


> good morning!!!
> 
> Perry...
> 
> ...



Honestly, no one knows - we now have the wait-list to help in these matters.  Again Marriott didn't have to do that but they created the wait-list.


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## GregT (Jul 5, 2010)

TarheelTraveler said:


> "Anyone read enough of the Marriott threads to know whether under their new points program, you can get into the Ritz-Carltons from the timeshares, or conversely from the RC DC into the timeshares?".



It's not a part of the system as it exists now, but Marriott has left themselves significant opportunities to expand/change the system.  This would be a logical extension of the system.

I suspect that they've thought of a several "enhancements" that they can roll out periodically to increase the value of the ownership, including inclusion of Ritz Carlton.

Best to all,

Greg


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## TarheelTraveler (Jul 6, 2010)

Thanks, Greg, for the info.


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## TarheelTraveler (Jul 8, 2010)

SherpaReport has a good comparison between destination clubs and timeshares:

http://www.sherpareport.com/destination-clubs/destination-clubs-luxury-timeshare.html

I know there are exceptions to the generalizations of both in the article, but it's a pretty fair characterization in my experience.


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## JonP (Jul 9, 2010)

PerryM said:


> First there was the RC DC.
> 
> ...... but Marriott now is looking at buying 10 very nice villas in Tuscany Italy to go along with an Excursion Package they have while there.



:hysterical: :hysterical: :hysterical: :hysterical: :hysterical: 

This beats it all!!!!!


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## ROCKJenkins (Jul 13, 2010)

*Am I missing something Perry?*

Perry,

I've read over the infomation Marriott has sent me on their new Points Program, and some things sounded good until I came upon the infomation that one can obtain one day rentals "IF AVAILABLE".  I doubt very strongly that there would ever be "CONVENIENT" ONE OR TWO DAY AVAILABILITIES in ANY timeshare systems.  Worldmark gets them here and their but not at my convenients.

I own a two bedroom and a three bedroom at Marriott's Las Vegas location and for the life of me Perry I just can't see any financial gains by joining Marriott's Point program.

Am I missing something Perry?

Rock Jenkins


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## Ken555 (Jul 15, 2010)

I don't get it. Why use 2 (or 3) years worth of your ownership for one week in Maui when you can get exchanges on II with little difficulty (albeit not Christmas week). I just reserved two consecutive weeks for next spring at the Westin for one of my Orlando Sheraton weeks. The value of the Marriott exchange as you describe it isn't apparent to me. Then again, I don't own any Marriott weeks at this point, and have no desire to travel over the holidays.


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## DanCali (Jul 16, 2010)

Ken555 said:


> I don't get it. Why use 2 (or 3) years worth of your ownership for one week in Maui when you can get exchanges on II with little difficulty (albeit not Christmas week). I just reserved two consecutive weeks for next spring at the Westin for one of my Orlando Sheraton weeks. The value of the Marriott exchange as you describe it isn't apparent to me. Then again, I don't own any Marriott weeks at this point, and have no desire to travel over the holidays.



Despite not owning Mariott weeks you are savvy enough to get the point... Any deeded weeks owner who has any minimal idea how to use II will find it hard to do better with Marriott's points exchanges...

Rather than paying $60K and $2400 a year in MFs to get 6000 points for that Maui week every year (I'll borrow and bank when I vacation 1 week every 3 years, not when I vacation 3 weeks in one year) one could just rent that week for $2400 without the $60K capital outlay... And if you want to play with timeshares, buy a strong Platinum trader in the mainland and use II - it's not going away anytime soon...

Most of the stuff reported herewould not be possible using points exchanges given that owners got fleeced by Marriott ("skimmed") in the points allocations.


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## m61376 (Jul 31, 2010)

Perry- as I've pointed out before to you, while you can correlate $1 to 1 point for your particular ownership, it CANNOT be extrapolated across the board and there are MANY, if not most, properties that it is an erroneous assumption. I know you feel the program is fantastic because, for you, it makes sense that you get approximately 1 point per dollar cost and, I agree, for YOUR ownership that does make sense.

HOWEVER- there are properties where the point values are closer to $.50 per point (rental pricesoint ratios) and properties allocated less points than properties which Marriott charges half the rent at. Marriott itself has stated that the program was not designed with the rental client in mind; they perceive rental customers as being different in some way then timeshare users (I don't understand their logic, but this is literally what I have been told by someone in a high position). 

While I respect a lot of what you say, your repetitive statement that "Each Point is roughly equivalent to $1 in rent," posted here and elsewhere, is fallacious and misleading. 

Admittedly, there are some people who will find the new program as wonderful as you do. There are some who would agree that giving up a 2BR Gold Summit Watch week and getting 5 days in Maui in a studio during I believe it was March was a great deal, and since it complements your other reservations I have no doubt that for you it is. 

But you do less well versed owners a disservice by not presenting a more balanced view. You are touting how the program looks at its best- taking isolated examples to support your premises- but without also acknowledging that they are isolated examples and should not be- and cannot be- uniformly extrapolated across the system. I find that very misleading to especially newcomers, who may not realize the flaws in your logic.


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