# Apple Valley Resort, Ohio going into forclosure- Choices??



## Black Diamond

Apple Valley Resort is voting to cease operations by May 2016. Options to owners is:
A) Continue operations and owners pay "Special assessment" of $2500+/-
b) Deed back now or after vote is taken to close or continue
C) Hold on to deed and share in proceeds following court ordered sale of all assets.

Which is the wise choice, for those involved at Apple Valley Resort?

ADVICE FROM OTHERS THAT HAVE GONE THROUGH A VOTE OF CEASE OPERATIONS.

Thanks in advance!!


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## jadejar

I am wondering the same thing.


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## silentg

Black Diamond said:


> Apple Valley Resort is voting to cease operations by May 2016. Options to owners is:
> A) Continue operations and owners pay "Special assessment" of $2500+/-
> b) Deed back now or after vote is taken to close or continue
> C) Hold on to deed and share in proceeds following court ordered sale of all assets.
> 
> Which is the wise choice, for those involved at Apple Valley Resort?
> 
> ADVICE FROM OTHERS THAT HAVE GONE THROUGH A VOTE OF CEASE OPERATIONS.
> 
> Thanks in advance!!


I almost exchanged here one time but DH had knee accident. Let us know what happens to this resort? If you are an owner. If it was me I would cash in my week in buyback.
Silentg


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## Tank

I've kept my eye on this place. It is about 1 1/2 hour away but not much shows up available  except crappy weather time. I got that at home.

Hope it is, good luck !


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## csxjohn

If they are going into foreclosure they owe someone a lot of money.  If they can't manage now, what will suddenly change if everyone is assessed $2500? And how many will pay that as opposed to just walking away? If you keep the deed and the proceeds from sale don't cover debt will you have to pay to cover the debt?

These are some questions I'd be asking myself before trying to make a decision.


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## raygo123

Any chance Wyndham could steal it? Build an indoor park?

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk


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## Black Diamond

*BUMP!*

Looking for further feedback on the Chances of breaking even on this closure.

If I hold on will there any payments for owners?

Or will I need to pay to get out of it in the end?


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## Tank

I feel for you. I kinda liked the closeness of your resort to us. I'm keeping a eye on this.

I probably would try to get a facebook page up for owners to think together, get feedback,  and share things going on with your resort. 

If it were me , I would be inclined to hold tight, see what shakes loose. You won't get anything, but it shouldn't cost you anything. Who knows who would buy this, you might prosper.


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## Saintsfanfl

Who is owed and how much is it? The answer to that question is needed to make a decision. More than likely the debt is far less than the value of the property but need to know for sure. How many units are there?

Many timeshares that sell for $1 would instantly be worth a little money if the timeshare was ending and the property was being sold.


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## rhonda

Black Diamond said:


> Looking for further feedback on the Chances of breaking even on this closure.
> 
> If I hold on will there any payments for owners?
> 
> Or will I need to pay to get out of it in the end?


Warner Springs Ranch in California went through similar starting in 2008 with a special owner vote called an "Assent Process."   The owner approval provided in that round gave the board sufficient power to close the property (Jan 2012) and push it into BK.  (The ranch had no reported debt prior to that move.)  

We held on to our deeds and continued paying dues until the property was, eventually, sold through the BK process (March 2013).  Settling deed/title issues took much effort.  Payouts from the BK Sale proceeds trickled out between late 2014 through end of 2015.  My final checks were received in early January of this year.

So know that this can be a very slow process ... best wishes to you and your fellow owners.

EDITING to add photo:


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## Saintsfanfl

rhonda said:


> Warner Springs Ranch in California went through similar starting in 2008 with a special owner vote called an "Assent Process."   The owner approval provided in that round gave the board sufficient power to close the property (Jan 2012) and push it into BK.  (The ranch had no reported debt prior to that move.)
> 
> We held on to our deeds and continued paying dues until the property was, eventually, sold through the BK process (March 2013).  Settling deed/title issues took much effort.  Payouts from the BK Sale proceeds trickled out between late 2014 through end of 2015.  My final checks were received in early January of this year.
> 
> So know that this can be a very slow process ... best wishes to you and your fellow owners.



What dues were there after the property officially closed? In other words, what was the basis for dues owed between Jan 2012 and Mar 2013? Was it a lesser amount based on the necessary pre-sale activities?


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## rhonda

Saintsfanfl said:


> What dues were there after the property officially closed? In other words, what was the basis for dues owed between Jan 2012 and Mar 2013? *Was it a lesser amount based on the necessary pre-sale activities?*


Ha, Ha, Ha.  Nope, full dues until sold with no usage available.

That said -- the WSR structure was a hybrid Country Club / Timeshare.  Our dues paid for ranch operations but not overnight stays.  Our stays were paid "per use" (nightly rental fee).  The Board action of closing the ranch cut off the rental income -- while the property still needed to pay security/admin/maint staff, keep the golf course in "reasonable shape to sell," keep the ranch horses fed, etc.  So -- monthly dues continued!

(Disclosure: The need for continued dues was somewhat easier for me to accept than most owners as _owners with horses boarded on the property_ were permitted to continue our board and use of the equestrian facilities and trails through the BK sale process.  So while I no longer had access to the hot springs pool and other favorite ranch amenities, I had a long transition process while maintaining my social circles at the barn.  This was a side effect of the ranch horses being identified as ranch assets/property.  The board didn't have authority to sell the horses as a separate asset and they needed to be fed and cared for until the new owner made a decision regarding their fate.)


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## garyk01

*deed it back*

my advice is deed it back. I went through this with two different places. one still active, one was closed. the cheques I got after the place was liquidated was $113.00 after paying nearly that much in courier fees. so ended up with zero basically, the other place , I paid a special assessment, that one was worse, they upped the maintence fees by 20 % , now its over $1200  a week for  a 2 bedroom in Canada


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## gerena

This is so sad.  We stayed there Fall 2010 and really enjoyed our time.  Very clean and we enjoyed visiting the area so much.  Have considered going back, but there are other places to see too!  We live in northern Indiana and it was a nice pleasant drive for us to get there.  I did notice that they had a 1 in 4 rule, which challenged us from going back too.  Not sure what that was all about.  It appears that it is difficult to get in to, especially the Fall.

It was a nice spoke out place for the Amish area  (not that we don't have enough where we live--our neighbors, but.....)  

We don't golf, but the view from the restaurant out to the golf course was stunning with Fall color.  

Good luck and I'm sorry this has happened to the owners.  

I don't have an idea for what to do, but I feel for your loss.


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## laa98

*Still in operation?*

We have reservations here in July thru RCI.  Do you think the resort will be open and still honor the reservation?


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## pedro47

This resort looks very nice. WHAT HAPPEN ? Maybe DRI or Wyndham will take over this resort in distress.


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## Marvin

*I need info on closing of Apple Mountain Resort*

I have reservations through RCI  at Apple Mountain for the last week in May, 2016.Can someone bring me up to date as to the closing of the resort???


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## Black Diamond

*Usage end May 27th!*



laa98 said:


> We have reservations here in July thru RCI.  Do you think the resort will be open and still honor the reservation?



May 27th is the final date of operations.  There is a owners association meeting tomorrow to decide the next step in the process.


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## Black Diamond

*May 27th is the final date of operations.*



Marvin said:


> I have reservations through RCI  at Apple Mountain for the last week in May, 2016.Can someone bring me up to date as to the closing of the resort???



I miss read the resort name as Apple Valley Resort:
Apple Valley Resort: will close on May 27th, the final date of operations. There is a owners association meeting tomorrow to decide the next step in the process.


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## Black Diamond

*$1.9 million in assets for 500 owners*



garyk01 said:


> my advice is deed it back. I went through this with two different places. one still active, one was closed. the cheques I got after the place was liquidated was $113.00 after paying nearly that much in courier fees. so ended up with zero basically, the other place , I paid a special assessment, that one was worse, they upped the maintence fees by 20 % , now its over $1200  a week for  a 2 bedroom in Canada.



1.9 million in assets at appraisal with less than 500 current owners, they have set aside $30,000 for legal fees. 

How can the association NOT have money left to disburse to owners if the sale brings 2/3 of the value?


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## csxjohn

Black Diamond said:


> 1.9 million in assets at appraisal with less than 500 current owners, they have set aside $300,000 for legal fees.
> 
> How can the association NOT have money left to disburse to owners if the sale brings 2/3 of the value?



Two things come to mind, how much is owed and will it bring anything close to that appraised value?


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## Black Diamond

csxjohn said:


> Two things come to mind, how much is owed and will it bring anything close to that appraised value?




No loans, all expenses are current with reported to be less than 400 remaining ACTIVE members/owners.


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## Black Diamond

*Psoitive meeting today at Apple Valley Resort*

I would like to take over several GOLD week deeds that are current on membership dues and owner would like to save the $28 recording fee.
I will pay the fee to record your deed at my expense!!

Contact me about your deed!!

Thanks!!


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## jadejar

Did you go to the owners' meeting today?


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## Black Diamond

*Yes*



jadejar said:


> Did you go to the owners' meeting today?



92 % percent say sell out because the ACTIVE membership is less than 35% and it needs greater than 70% ownership to keep a TS in good financial conditions. Currently 30+% ownership held by association membership

Upcoming vote will be final chance to vote to be in or out on the closing negotiations and legal process.


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## csxjohn

Black Diamond said:


> No loans, all expenses are current with reported to be less than 400 remaining ACTIVE members/owners.



In your OP you stated "C) Hold on to deed and share in proceeds following court ordered sale of all assets"

What is causing a court ordeerd sale, they must owe something to someone for this to happen, no?


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## raygo123

csxjohn said:


> In your OP you stated "C) Hold on to deed and share in proceeds following court ordered sale of all assets"
> 
> What is causing a court ordeerd sale, they must owe something to someone for this to happen, no?


If nothing else property taxes.  The county sheriff sale. 

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk


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## Black Diamond

*My mis-interpretaion of the letter for Assocaition*



csxjohn said:


> In your OP you stated "C) Hold on to deed and share in proceeds following court ordered sale of all assets"
> 
> What is causing a court ordeerd sale, they must owe something to someone for this to happen, no?



The initial letter in it's legal mambo-gumbo language , it said about appraisal, 2/3 of appraisal as beginning bid for property as minimum and successive sale offering if less than 2/3 of value.

Sounds a lot like Sheriff auction, but the meeting made it clear that the choices would be private auctioneer or  court-appointed( sheriff) Auction occurs after all legal notices are published in paper and judge settles all claims against the association from any litigants, owners or otherwise.

My mistake to react to the letter, but looks like long process that may not get resolved in 2016!!


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## TUGBrian

annnd for those coming to this link in the newsletter looking for the westgate rescind thread, its here

http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=241703


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## ottawasquaw

This is so alarming and distressing. May I ask if you had been reading the annual financial reports? Just wondering. I know it's easy to dummy those up, too!


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## Black Diamond

Finances are fine, no loans or mortgage.  Just lack of active MF paying members to keep the operation going.


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## ottawasquaw

So, you are saying that there was not enough income generated by MF to pay for the operations? This can happen to individuals who own their property outright and don't pay their taxes. 
I get an annual report which states the income generated by the MF and the expenses and amounts set back to pay for future expenses - big things that don't happen annually, like a new roof and such.


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## raygo123

At one time I was thinking of picking one up for the fall.  Guess I will never get the chance.  Even if someone buys it, it will that two years to get straighten out.

Wonder what would be the upside and downside to buying one now, as it would be used by me.  

We stayed in a cottage way in the woods.  Amazing!
If the hotub was in the room, it would take up half the room.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk


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## TUGBrian

attached is the final report and financials regarding the apple valley closing:


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## Black Diamond

105 "CURRENT" owners remained through the process of closing and court proceedings.  We reaped the benefits of patience!!  See the report listed in TugBrian's post above of the details, expenses of closing and court filings.


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## rhonda

I get an error trying to follow @TUGBrian 's link:  "You do not have permission to view this page or perform this action."


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## RX8

Same error here


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## geist1223

Ditto.


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## Black Diamond

A $1 timeshare net me $2400+ after 20 years of ownership and use, at a reasonable annual MF.  Not bad for a "Starter" resort in my own neighborhood of Ohio.  I wish I could get that kind of gain in my retirement savings!!


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## TUGBrian

sorry about the link, ive attached the file directly to my post, hopefully you can download it now ive just tested it to see it works.


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## OldGuy

$2200 for those who hung on is not a bad outcome.


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## randster2

Does anyone know what the new owners will do with Apple Valley?


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## OldGuy

randster2 said:


> Does anyone know what the new owners will do with Apple Valley?



I've done all the snooping I know to and have not found that out.

If I was 30 or 40 years younger, I would liked to have taken it on as a "full-ownership" project, selling the (duplex) condos as lake/golf/vacation/vacation rental/retirement homes.

Ohio is devoid of places like it, and it is located within a convenient drive of major metropolitan areas, not far from Amish country.

It is a beautiful area.

The buyer got 32 spacious condos for around $43000 each, plus a clubhouse, swimming pool, "resident manager's" residence, and some additional undeveloped lots, immediately next to a top-notch golf course and within the Apple Valley Lake development.

The buyer is Chippewa Lands Subdivision LLC, registered in Wadsworth, OH.


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## OldGuy

OldGuy said:


> $2200 for those who hung on is not a bad outcome.



I mean . . . that's better than paying $2200 to get rid of it.

Most of the resorts we have owned at could be sold as full-ownership condos, once the "partition" work is done.

It's about a wedge from the resort clubhouse to the golf course clubhouse.  Search Apple Valley Golf Course and see how pretty that setting is.


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## OldGuy

Speaking of Boards thinking outside of the box . . . and realizing this could not be done at all resorts . . . I just got the e-newsletter from one of our (legacy) resorts saying that the value of full-ownership has been on the rise.  So, they have combined some non-productive intervals into full-ownership condos, and have been able to sell them to generate funds to offset annual fee revenue losses.  This is the same resort that I have been asking to offer a deedback program for ten years, and I received their offer to take our last week back recently.

If you always do what you've always done, you'll always get what you've always got.


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## rhonda

OldGuy said:


> Speaking of Boards thinking outside of the box . . . and realizing this could not be done at all resorts . . . I just got the e-newsletter from one of our (legacy) resorts saying that the value of full-ownership has been on the rise.  So, they have combined some non-productive intervals into full-ownership condos, and have been able to sell them to generate funds to offset annual fee revenue losses.  This is the same resort that I have been asking to offer a deedback program for ten years, and I received their offer to take our last week back recently.
> 
> If you always do what you've always done, you'll always get what you've always got.


That might be a bit tricky if the original deeds were Fixed Unit or, at least, unit specific.  Might be easier to do if all deeds were floating units.  I'm sure it was also an interesting board discussion on what rights the full-share owner had to amenities?


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## OldGuy

Yup, thinking out the box would mean that some re-deeding would need to be done to create a full-ownership unit.  At the resort in question there always has been some full-ownership, some 1/4 shares, some 1/8 shares, and some intervals, so sharing amenities is not an issue.  It would be easier to combine 1/4 and 1/8 shares into full ownership than it would be to combine intervals, but doing so has increased the value of all ownerships.

If you will read the final report on Apple Valley that Brian attached above, it is the largest lawsuit ever filed in the State of Ohio, based on the number of defendants.  1581 interests had to be "partitioned" into a marketable deed, or deeds, for all the units, the clubhouse, the swimming pool, the resident manager's condo, and some vacant properties.

By comparison, "partitioning" 50, or 8, or 4 interests into 1 would be easy peasy.

At both resorts I'm sure there have been a lot of _interesting_ discussions the last 25 years, with the best ones being the ones that came up with these plans to resolve their problems.

As I've mentioned before, in order for these things to succeed, there has to be a real market value.




rhonda said:


> That might be a bit tricky if the original deeds were Fixed Unit or, at least, unit specific.  Might be easier to do if all deeds were floating units.  I'm sure it was also an interesting board discussion on what rights the full-share owner had to amenities?


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## DrQ

TUGBrian said:


> sorry about the link, ive attached the file directly to my post, hopefully you can download it now ive just tested it to see it works.


Our timeshare is voting to dissolve, we have paid our 2019 fees, what is my best play?


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## Black Diamond

DrQ said:


> Our timeshare is voting to dissolve, we have paid our 2019 fees, what is my best play?


Wait a year and look for paperwork of the court proceedings and then wait for two more years for the dissolved organization to distribute a settlement to all paid up owners.  Wish you the best during the journey.  You may be as surprised as I was to see the amount $$ I would be paid for my patience.


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## bbakernbay

Black Diamond said:


> 105 "CURRENT" owners remained through the process of closing and court proceedings.  We reaped the benefits of patience!!  See the report listed in TugBrian's post above of the details, expenses of closing and court filings.


How many Owner Weeks were there in total, that is if all owners had paid their MFees?  Reading previous posts it says 32 units at 51 weeks or thereabouts so 1,650.  Sounds like only 105 hung into the end.  I wonder what the MFees were in their last year?


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## OldGuy

bbakernbay said:


> How many Owner Weeks were there in total, that is if all owners had paid their MFees?  Reading previous posts it says 32 units at 51 weeks or thereabouts so 1,650.  Sounds like only 105 hung into the end.  I wonder what the MFees were in their last year?



All the details are in the statement that Brian linked to.

There were 1581 interests, and 105 of what they called final AVRUOA accounts.  (Apple Valley Resort Unit Owner Association)

It's fairly common to just have 50 owners per unit (2 maintenance weeks/year).

I had an owner keeping me somewhat informed, but he was not in the group actually doing all the work.  I'm curious as to how much title work needed to be done to establish the 1581 "interests".

You can google the Apple Valley Association, and see some letters/statements from back when the decision to dissolve was made, and it gave some numbers regarding paying and non-paying.


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## OldGuy

The one of our legacy resorts that is well managed takes weeks back and then rents or sells them.  This year they had an "Open" period for owners to purchase weeks.  In the past they have had public auctions, which amounted to reading a week and asking if anyone wants it, the min price being $750.

Two years ago I went to the auction to purchase a week, and, with a pretty nice group of owners gathered, the guy who does most of the work talked about the Sunset Clause.  I remember his first statement, "There is no good thing about dissolving the timeshare."
- - - - - -
Given the average age of owners at legacy resorts, and, therefore, the relative make-up of this forum, it's not surprising that there is so much discussion devoted to exit strategies, and deedbacks, and Sunset Clauses, and dissolving timeshares.

What was desirable in 1980 is not today.

It has become a very relevant topic, and being both a legacy person  and a triple-legacy-resort owners, one that I am interested in, far more than stuff like how to trade for the best week, which for us has not been a topic of interest for years.

Bear in mind that legacy (old) resorts tend to be made of up of legacy owners, so for all of them, the clock is ticking.  Every owner will one day not be an owner, one way or another.

Things like Apple Valley are case studies of how to end a resort, and are important to a lot of owners.


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## rhonda

DrQ said:


> Our timeshare is voting to dissolve, we have paid our 2019 fees, what is my best play?


If the resort has value, keep paying your dues through the end.  This is a l-o-n-g process.  Those still in good standing at the very final end might share in the final settlement.

EDITED TO ADD:  Link to Sticky on Bankrupt/Closed Resorts as their histories might be useful.

EDIT #2:  @DrQ , I reviewed my old post regarding Warner Springs Ranch closing.  The Homeowners first vote on closing the resort was in 2008, the resort closed in 2012 and sold/closed escrow in 2013.  I _believe_ we received our portion of the settlement in 2014.  It is a long process!


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## OldGuy

rhonda said:


> If the resort has value, keep paying your dues through the end.  This is a l-o-n-g process.  Those still in good standing at the very final end might share in the final settlement.



Yup.  I believe the key to a resort, whether it's ongoing or disbanding, is that it has value in the marketplace.  If there is no rental value for a week, if there is no condo market, if there is no demand, then things are problematic, in either trying to continue or disband.


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## DrQ

rhonda said:


> EDIT #2:  @DrQ , I reviewed my old post regarding Warner Springs Ranch closing.  The Homeowners first vote on closing the resort was in 2008, the resort closed in 2012 and sold/closed escrow in 2013.  I _believe_ we received our portion of the settlement in 2014.  It is a long process!


Yeah, I think they are going to use a huge Special Assessment to force the existing owners to use the Deedback option.


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## OldGuy

In the Apple Valley procedure, I'm curious as to 1581 "interests" got whittled down to:





I've asked an owner who made it to that point, and he didn't appear to know for sure, but thought it was because he paid all along, including what I believe he said was a $1000 Assessment to finance to legal work.  I can see that being necessary since the reason it was being dissolved was lack of funds/fees paid.

I can also see how a $1000 assessment to "dissolve" a resort would not get paid by many.

I'm trying to pin that down.

I did, I did pin it down.  The email was sitting there all along.

Yes, there was $1000 Special Assessment to finance the legal work and sale. 

Yeah, if you were asked to pay $1000 because your resort was belly-up, and someone thought they could salvage something out of it, not many would pay it.


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## dioxide45

If there were 105 people that paid the SA for legal work, that would amount to $105,000. I would think that should cover most if not all the costs associated with it. I suspect if there was anything left, it was part of the final distribution.


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## OldGuy

dioxide45 said:


> If there were 105 people that paid the SA for legal work, that would amount to $105,000. I would think that should cover most if not all the costs associated with it. I suspect if there was anything left, it was part of the final distribution.



The costs of the process are shown in the financial report that Brian linked to.  Some of the expenses would have to have been paid prior to the auction and some of them were paid out of the proceeds of the auction.

Yeah, I did the math and came up with $105K, too, and my feeling is that's not enough for all the work that had to be done.  I'll go look.

Expenses:  $519,205.05

or this:

Total AVRUOA expenses after 1st Disbursement by the court:  $851,614.20


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## OldGuy

I had another update on Apple Valley this morning, but I got virus detection, so could not look at it.


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## OldGuy

OldGuy said:


> Expenses:  $519,205.05
> 
> or this:
> 
> Total AVRUOA expenses after 1st Disbursement by the court:  $851,614.20



I'm guessing that the reason that there are two figures for expenses, and why "Total" expenses is so much more is that the first figure represents what it costs getting to the point of the sale (auction), and that the higher figure also includes the expenses relating to the auction/sale.

That's all in the report that Brian linked to.

What should be obvious is that dissolving a timeshare is not something for the faint of heart.  It's hard to conceive that there are many people who would care to undertake this.


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## OldGuy

Total AVRUOA expenses after 1st Disbursement by the court: *$851,614.20*

I am re-posting this, with emphasis, just to hammer in the point of what it takes to dissolve a timeshare.  This was a small, 32-unit one, too, and the process took 2-3 years.


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## OldGuy

Resorts are harder to undo than they were to do.


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## OldGuy

I have been watching the Internet to see how this gets re-purposed.  I figure it will be full-ownership condos . . . for lake/golf/vacation homes, or small retiree homes.

I haven't seen anything yet.

I just seems to be such a marketable setting:

https://www.google.com/maps/search/apple+valley+ohio/@40.4458927,-82.3554064,773m/data=!3m1!1e3

Anyone ever get by there, and could take a look?


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## OldGuy

A pretty place.


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## bogey21

Black Diamond said:


> Which is the wise choice, for those involved at Apple Valley Resort?



I don't know anything about the Apple Valley situation but I have always acted on what an old Bond Trader told me;i.e "Your first loss is always your best loss".  Based on this I would bail as quickly as possible...

George


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## OldGuy

bogey21 said:


> I don't know anything about the Apple Valley situation



The Apple Valley situation is over and done, except for the part about what it's going to be next.

I'm betting on full-ownership condos, for vacation homes or retirees.


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## randster2

The Apple Valley condos are being rented daily, weekly, monthly, or full-time.  The link is below.
https://www.applevalleycondos.com/?...dYJDSpLzl1EIGNaYZUEaaAzqPXbWcc62AkZust5ZafYrM


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