# FOR SUNSET HARBOR OWNERS - BOD ELECTION



## JanT (Sep 26, 2022)

*MODS - If this is not allowed, I apologize, and please remove it.*

As a multi-week owner at Sunset Harbor, I’m reaching out to all owners regarding our Board of Directors (BOD) election. We received the vote and ballot information today. 

I have serious concerns regarding an incumbent board member that is running for re-election. I have outlined my concerns in the attached document and encourage you to read it before you make your choice in determining whom you will vote for to represent owners on the BOD.

Because much of owner information is privacy protected, I have limited avenues to reach other owners without incurring significant financial cost. Postage alone would be $1200.00 to send a hard copy letter to all other owners and I have been unable to get to Key West to tackle the significant task of pulling owner information that would have allowed me to send an email.  Therefore, I’m trying to reach other owners through social media/on-line forums to share this information. If you know other owners and have their contact information, I would appreciate your forwarding this information to them.

I’m not interested in turning this into a mud-slinging discussion. I simply want to get information out to owners that will help them make an informed decision.

If you have any questions, please feel free to private message me and I will do my best to answer them.

Thanks!

JT


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## bdh (Oct 18, 2022)

Projected results (official meeting hasn't taken place yet)






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## bdh (Oct 19, 2022)

It is official now.

FWIW: Due to such a small percentage of SH owner’s voting in the election, Hyatt/MVW's votes changed which candidates were elected.


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## ScoopKona (Oct 19, 2022)

bdh said:


> It is official now.
> 
> FWIW: Due to such a small percentage of SH owner’s voting in the election, Hyatt/MVW's votes changed which candidates were elected.



A hand-picked board of directors -- willing to say "how high" when we say "jump."

SH had one chance to break away and they blew it. It's a real shame -- they could have improved their own situation, and the situation of every legacy HRC resort.


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## JanT (Oct 19, 2022)

*WARNING - This is long*

I don't know that I agree with ScoopKona's assessment that it's a "hand-picked" BODs. Per my sources, Jim Drum who previously served on the BOD for 20 years isn't real happy with MVW, even though he apparently was pretty chummy with Hyatt. He's said to be pretty upset with MVW, so, not sure they have an ally in him. I don't know anything about Rick Lohr other than he's on the BOD at CP. Is he pro-MVW? I don't know.

There is no doubt that MVWs votes had an impact on the election and that will always be the case until owners get off their asses and vote. There's a real danger in their complacency, since the more weeks MVW acquires over time, the more control they will have. If people don't like that they have to vote. There's obviously complacency on the part of owners - that's true at a lot of resorts. But, part of the problem is there is absolutely no one that is uniting owners or even trying to unit them. There is a new SH Owners Group on Facebook started by an owner who is trying desperately to get owners to join. If you're a SH owner, please go over to Alan's page and join. Look for "Owners Only - Sunset Harbor Key West." You'll have to ask to join and verify your ownership, but Alan is very quick about getting you verified and approved. And before anyone asks, no, I don't know Alan, have never met him, he's not my buddy, he's not paying me anything to mention the website. but he is an owner that is trying to unit owners.

From my viewpoint, the number of owners that want to push MVW out and terminate the resort agreement are a small minority. It's pretty evident from the vote on those measures that other owners are not going to support that. At least based on what I perceive as some half-assed, self-serving effort that presented absolutely no logic, no plan, no real information, no facts - absolutely ZERO reality. The promises that were made were ridiculous. None of that was happening. How they thought they were going to sway owners to vote on that nonsense is beyond me. They're going to have to present a lot of concrete proof of malfeasance on the part of MVW before people are going to vote to push them out. They squandered a boatload of Association money for absolutely NOTHING.

From where I'm sitting it looks like there's a small group of owners that are trying to turn that into their own private resort where no one else is welcome. WTH? They have their little "paradise" there and if you're not in the popular kids group, you're not getting in. Literally, they sound like a bunch of damned juveniles.

Lest anyone think I'm speaking out of my rear-end, let me tell you that when that little fiasco to terminate the management contract/resort agreement hit, I got to work. I started paying attention - FAST. As an owner, I had been complacent and that was a HUGE mistake. I started digging and digging and digging. I didn't, and don't like what I found. 

Because of life circumstances, I really had had no time to even worry about what was happening at SH. We hadn't been there in about 15 years; instead using our points to take vacations closer to home, etc. Last year when we knew we could start traveling again, we bought two additional weeks because we loved the resort and love Key West. We bought those additional weeks without even traveling to SH because we'd placed a lot of faith in the BOD/Hyatt/MVW and trusted they had maintained the resort at a level that it deserved that "Premiere" rating by II. Placing that trust in any of those entities was a HUGE mistake on our part. NEVER again will I put my trust in a group like that. Sunset Harbor is an absolute mess. Don't let that beautiful exterior fool you.

Everyone who read through that long, drawn out thread in this forum about the termination effort knows I was against the plan presented by the board. I made no secret of that. I also made no secret of the fact that I was pissed off by the BOD member that released a confidential list of owner information and then did an about face and torpedoed the very board effort they voted to support. Believe me, I was on a rampage about that BOD member. I requested their resignation knowing they wouldn't resign. I did what I could to try and keep them from being re-elected. In the end, it was futile. But, you know what? That's ok. Because it turns out that maybe they were asking some of the right questions after all. I don't like what they did and how they went about it (it certainly leaves the Association in a precarious position legally and they've fostered a very distrustful situation), but I have my suspicions about why they torpedoed the effort. I can't be certain but maybe they were onto something. I intend to find out. 

As part of that effort, my husband and I traveled to Key West for the Annual Association meeting that occurred yesterday. The whole process of communication with the BOD to even get on the official agenda to ask questions of the BOD and MVW was ridiculous. It's a story for another time and one I intend to tell but not tonight. It's baseball playoff season and my boys are getting ready to play. I will say this though - I left that meeting at noon yesterday (10/18) and my blood is STILL boiling - I'm absolutely livid. That is not a good thing for either entity. It is a good thing for my fellow owners. Stay tuned.


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## ScoopKona (Oct 19, 2022)

JanT said:


> *WARNING - This is long*
> 
> I don't know that I agree with ScoopKona's assessment that it's a "hand-picked" BODs.



Who got the most votes? Who's the worst person on the board?

They're just going to keep chipping away at it until you have no say at all.


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## JanT (Oct 19, 2022)

I know who got the most votes.  I’m still trying to determine for a fact who the worst person on the board is.  I know the person you’re referring to can be difficult but that doesn’t make them the worst person on there.  And they’re ONE person.  There’s 4 others on there which means they have more power than one.

I can tell you this. That board is NOT functioning as it should. It’s a mess. I’m trying to determine if it’s just because they haven’t done their homework about how to function or it’s intentional so no one can follow their tracks.

MVW isn’t going to be able to move fast enough to take full control. That’s just nonsense. I’m less worried about MVW at this point than I am the board.

I respect your KW knowledge, Scoop but there’s more going on here than anyone knows in my opinion. 
As an aside, we went to El Siboney as you suggested.  Wonderful place and fabulous Cuban food.



ScoopKona said:


> Who got the most votes? Who's the worst person on the board?
> 
> They're just going to keep chipping away at it until you have no say at all.


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## ScoopKona (Oct 19, 2022)

JanT said:


> I know who got the most votes.  I’m still trying to determine for a fact who the worst person on the board is.  I know the person you’re referring to can be difficult but that doesn’t make them the worst person on there.  And they’re ONE person.  There’s 4 others on there which means they have more power than one.
> 
> I can tell you this. That board is NOT functioning as it should. It’s a mess. I’m trying to determine if it’s just because they haven’t done their homework about how to function or it’s intentional so no one can follow their tracks.
> 
> ...




Corruption in Florida is usually the very easy to understand type -- MVC is going to brute force members they like onto the board, and brute force members they don't like off, until they have a rubber-stamp board. I guarantee you.

Be very, very, very worried about MVC -- because that's your real enemy.

That's why they were so 100% FUD with the special vote. They needed to keep control just long enough to cement control. It's now a done deal -- ask any Keys resident what a done deal means. You're in one now.

And just in case this is your first rodeo, here's what happens next. The board proposes something wildly unpopular, which is great for MVC and horrible for the owners. Owners complain until they're blue in the face about "the thing." Shills speak passionately in favor of "the thing" (remind you of anything which has happened recently?)

Board enacts "the thing."

"The thing" goes completely sideways.

Board says, "We wuz *hoodwinked*!"

That's the Key West way.


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## JanT (Oct 19, 2022)

Are you seriously trying to tell me that the board did this intentionally at the direction of MVW as some sinister ploy to gain control of the resort.  Meaning the board has been bought off so-to-speak and are just carrying out MVW direction?  Because that’s what it seems like you’re saying.


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## ScoopKona (Oct 19, 2022)

JanT said:


> Are you seriously trying to tell me that the board did this intentionally at the direction of MVW as some sinister ploy to gain control of the resort.  Meaning the board has been bought off so-to-speak and are just carrying out MVW direction?  Because that’s what it seems like you’re saying.



That's PRECISELY what I'm saying. If SH left MVC, MVC wouldn't be able to sell the same units over and over with their new Portfolio points program. Owners were about to do the best thing possible for themselves. So that's why MVC pulled out all the stops, and probably bought off one or more board members -- and sent an endless parade of clowns to the Hyatt subforum -- to kill the vote. "I don't know. It's so sudden. We need to wait and see. Steady as she goes!"

Owners fell for the con. I'm very sad that they did.

EDIT -- Let me say this as bluntly as possible. SH owners who voted "no" got rooked by the timeshare salesmen and developers, yet again.


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## JanT (Oct 19, 2022)

So…which two did they buy off?


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## ScoopKona (Oct 19, 2022)

We both know of one for sure. 

But the main thing was throwing the owner vote. And we all know how that went. All those "owners" who so passionately delivered misinformation to cause fear, uncertainty and doubt? They're all gone. Just like we all knew they would be. 

They didn't care. They never cared. They wanted to sow discord and hope they could throw the vote. They won. Owners lost. Case closed. 

That was the owners last, best shot. It's over.


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## JanT (Oct 19, 2022)

Those are pretty serious accusations.


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## ScoopKona (Oct 19, 2022)

Contact all the new users who participated in the SH vote thread (always toeing the MVC line).

See how many of them get back to you. I rest my case. Seriously. There's my case.


PS -- Don't get me wrong -- I was rooting for the owners. I wish you were as skeptical about them as you are about me...


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## JanT (Oct 20, 2022)

Scoop,

I’m not stupid.  Of course, there were MVW shills in that thread.  No doubt about it and they were working it hard.  No way MVW wanted SH to depart.  I’m under no illusion that MVW is our friend.

And all I said was those were some serious accusations.

What exactly do you think MVW is going to do that is so bad? What crisis do you see developing? What is this sinister goal you think they have? What is driving your suspicions? I honestly want to know.

I’m not stumping for MVW.  I recognize their bottom line is to make money and they’re not necessarily the owners’ friend.  But, I’m not convinced they’re this evil entity you (and others) are making them out to be.  What am I missing that makes you convinced they’re out to get owners?  What is their end game?


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## ScoopKona (Oct 20, 2022)

JanT said:


> What is their end game?



Selling the same resorts multiple times and maximizing profits. If they ruin HRC, they can sell their new system. They then blow that system up and sell something different.

That's their end game. Legacy owners are in the way.


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## Kal (Oct 20, 2022)

ScoopKona said:


> We both know of one for sure.
> 
> But the main thing was throwing the owner vote. And we all know how that went. All those "owners" who so passionately delivered misinformation to cause fear, uncertainty and doubt? They're all gone. Just like we all knew they would be.
> 
> ...


YOU BET!!  You called them out during the pre-vote period and it was sooo obvious they were MVW stooges.  We will never hear from them again.


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## Kal (Oct 20, 2022)

ScoopKona said:


> Selling the same resorts multiple times and maximizing profits. If they ruin HRC, they can sell their new system. They then blow that system up and sell something different.
> 
> That's their end game. Legacy owners are in the way.


Control the vote and BOD.  Bingo!  Legacy owners just become tourists paying ever increasing Maintenance Fees.  I bet they wish they could raise the property and sell it for GIGANTIC BIG BUCKS!


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## ScoopKona (Oct 20, 2022)

Kal said:


> YOU BET!!  You called them out during the pre-vote period and it was sooo obvious they were MVW stooges.  We will never hear from them again.



The truly sad part is the private conversations we had about these stooges, long before it became a real problem. The sad fact is that this tactic works. They were able to sow enough confusion and doubt into what was otherwise a _very clear cut, in-your-best-interest, I don't understand why this is even being debated_ issue, and throw the vote in their favor.

It's not like everyone wasn't warned this was happening. And it happened anyway.


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## JanT (Oct 20, 2022)

Well, I'll tell you this much, MVW might have their own bottom-line end game.  But, currently, I trust them more than I trust the people that have been elected by owners.  How sad is that?  Listen, I'm not just spouting the MVW talking points - I have my issues with MVW, too (a lot of them).  But this resort has been *severely* neglected by the BOD and their damned hands haven't been tied behind their backs by Hyatt or MVW. They ultimately make the decisions on how to spend Association money and what gets done. They have their own damned agenda and it's not looking out for anyone but themselves. Several of them don't even use their units - they book their week(s) and rent them out for a nice little profit. Yeah, if MFs go up, guess what that cuts into? THEIR profit.  *EDITED TO ADD:  I did not mean to intimate that every board member that rents out their weeks are a problem.  There is one board member specifically that lives in Key West for a fair part of the year and they have been invaluable in helping solve some of the problems at SH and thank goodness they were there because without them there would have been some bigger issues to solve.  I'm incredibly grateful for their efforts.*

I'd like to know what the Hell they've been doing with our money. Not taking care of this resort I can promise you that. They have continually "kicked the can down the road," pushing maintenance issues aside as they spent it on ridiculous crap like sound bars. They've kicked the can so far down the road for so long that now we're looking at somewhere in the range of $11M of unfunded projects that need to be completed. They pissed off an exorbitant amount of money on that ridiculous "terminate MVW/resort agreement" boondoggle without so much as a smidge of a plan on how to execute. All the while trying to tell owners they couldn't get any real savings numbers because they didn't want to spend owners' money until they knew owners were on board with their plan. Well, they had absolutely no problem spending a chunk of it trying to pull of their plan. Wait until the amount of money that was spent on that mess gets exposed. Wait until owners get that number and find out just how much minor maintenance could have been done with that money. They're going to be angry!!! Well, owners who don't have their own self-serving agenda anyway and there's *a lot *of those that don't have their own agenda. Some members of this BOD will be lucky if they survive their terms. Recall elections just aren't that hard or expensive.

These pictures are just a few of the many that I've taken of our current unit.

See that big clump of hair in the picture? That came out of our bedsheets this morning when I was looking for bedbugs because something bit the living Hell out of me during the night. No bedbugs that I can determine but there was something crawling around in there. This unit is so dirty it is no wonder bugs are attacking. When was the last time pest control was on-site?

Another picture is just *one* of the several areas of absolute scum and deterioration under the kitchen cabinets. Another picture is of the absolute fricking absurdity of a kitchen redesign that doesn't allow you to fully pull out a kitchen draw to access a ridiculous two cutting knives and a set of steak knives that if you don't look close enough you don't even see. The only way to get the drawer open is to open the damned refrigerator door. See that outlet in the kitchen? How am I supposed to use that when the damned stove blocks it? The only other usable outlet is stuck in the back corner above the counter and I have to stretch like Hell to get to it. The other picture is of a chunk of missing drywall that's obviously been that way for awhile. And the other picture is of rotting wood in the inside entry. Believe me when I tell you, this is just the beginning of the pictures.

So, at this point if it comes down to MVW ultimately having control over the resort, I'll gladly pay higher maintenance fees if I don't walk into a unit that looks like a run-down, nasty Motel 6 out in the middle of the Mojave Desert. I have NEVER been to a Marriott resort that is in this kind of condition, and I've been to a lot of them. I've never been to another Hyatt Residence Club resort that even remotely resembles this mess at Sunset Harbor. Whose fault is that? Hyatt when they were in control? MVW? While they certainly share some of the blame, ultimately the blame lies at the feet of the BOD. It's time they stop pointing their fingers at MVW and screaming to owners how bad MVW is and how it's all their fault. No, it's not. Again, the blame is shared but the BOD has the absolute responsibility to make sure this resort is taken care of. Why haven't they? Yeah, that's the $64M question.

Go ahead and tout how great the BOD of is, how they care about owners, and how MVW is the ultimate evil asshole that is only in it for themselves. Your comment about them wanting to tear down the resort and sell the property? Well, if we continue to allow a run-amok BOD to push their own self-serving agenda, we're not going to have any choice but to tear the damned thing down. Eventually, it's going to end up a dilapidated structure (and believe me, it's already happening) that someone is going to pay a pittance for and either tear it down and start over or they'll just sell the property for enough profit to ensure generational wealth for their families. That works out well for them, doesn't it? Not so much for the rest of us.

If I sound pissed, it's because I am - absolutely livid. Tell me all you want that how crappy MVW is, how they've got some evil plan to take over SH and the island if you want to throw that in. But, for right now, I'll wager my money on their "end game" over the "end game" of the BOD.


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## ivywag (Oct 20, 2022)

Are there any plans to replace the floors?  They always look dirty. Your point that units are not maintained to the standards of the other Hyatt resorts is spot on.  We’ve been trading into Sunset for nearly 20 years and have put up with the lack of maintenance because of the location.  Just this year we finally purchased a unit.  Since we were going every year anyway, we decided that we would like a specific unit and purchased.  At the time of purchase we were a bit concerned that the reserves were not sufficient to maintain the resort in a first class manner as the units need a lot of updating. After seeing the 2023 maintenance fee and how little of it is going to the reserves (and how much more it would take to fully fund the reserves,) it seems that indeed we have a problem.


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## ScoopKona (Oct 20, 2022)

JanT said:


> So, at this point if it comes down to MVW ultimately having control over the resort, I'll gladly pay higher maintenance fees if I don't walk into a unit that looks like a run-down, nasty Motel 6 out in the middle of the Mojave Desert.



The reason it "looks like a run-down, nasty Motel 6 out in the middle of the Mojave Desert" is because Marriott is charged with maintaining the resort. If you want to point fingers, that's who to point them at. That's what that entire vote was about -- throwing MVC out on its ear, and finding a new company to manage Sunset Harbor.

MVC already has control over the resort. The vote was whether to let them maintain control over the resort. A "no" meant "Stay the course. Steady as she goes. Marriott has this." A yes vote meant "enough is enough. We need a new management company."


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## Kal (Oct 20, 2022)

With regard to reserves, that's basically a "replacement fund" for such items as roof, elevators, furniture, etc.  The owners vote annually to short the reserve which are based on Florida Law.  The issue at hand is the annual budget for repairs, maintenance and upgrades.  My guess is the BOD is actively trying to combat MVW's "management fee" of 13-15%, all the while keeping owner maintenance fees at a minimum. The posters here point out the desparate need for proper maintenance and upkeep of the asylum which obviously is not being done.  If left unchecked the inmates will control the asylum.  Which would be a good thing.

Of course, don't be like me where my solution is to spend more time at Schooner Wharf bar.


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## ScoopKona (Oct 20, 2022)

Kal said:


> Of course, don't be like me where my solution is to spend more time at Schooner Wharf bar.



If we go there on the right day, I can show you how to steal beer from Jimmy Buffett. Did it a hundred times when I was a kid. Problem is, you never know if it's going to be "beer-stealin' day" or not. Only got caught once -- by his keyboard player, Mike.


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## Kal (Oct 20, 2022)

Aaaaah, that is so GREAT!!


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## JanT (Oct 20, 2022)

Ultimately it is the responsibility of our elected BOD to ensure the resort is being taken care of.  If they haven't held MVW to getting the work done, that's on the BOD.

No need to continue to debate this.  



ScoopKona said:


> The reason it "looks like a run-down, nasty Motel 6 out in the middle of the Mojave Desert" is because Marriott is charged with maintaining the resort. If you want to point fingers, that's who to point them at. That's what that entire vote was about -- throwing MVC out on its ear, and finding a new company to manage Sunset Harbor.
> 
> MVC already has control over the resort. The vote was whether to let them maintain control over the resort. A "no" meant "Stay the course. Steady as she goes. Marriott has this." A yes vote meant "enough is enough. We need a new management company."


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## JanT (Oct 20, 2022)

The floors don't just look dirty, they ARE dirty - filthy!!  I believe there is a plan to replace flooring starting in 2024.  At least that's what I got from the meeting.  I'll be requesting a copy of all the financials that were presented at the meeting and will have a better handle on things then.  Of course, because it's been put off for so long, we're having to do it now when product and labor costs have skyrocketed, i.e., it's going to take a bigger chunk of the budget.

Yes, we have a problem - a huge one. Eventually all this "kicking the can down the road" is going to catch up with us and we're going to get hit with a special assessment. There is absolutely no way we're going to be able to get enough money in our reserves to cover all that. Especially now when they are having to replace balconies, etc. There's so much maintenance that needs to be done it's ridiculous. I'm not sure what the BOD have been thinking. That we'd raise money to do it all by holding a couple of bake sales? Nuts!

I am not going to put all the blame on the BOD. Hyatt/MVW has their failures, too and I'm definitely not a MVW "yes man," but, I do place the bulk of the responsibility at the feet of the BOD. Ultimately, they are responsible for holding MVW accountable and pushing them to get maintenance done. It's very obvious they haven't.

I simply cannot be so enthralled with the location of the resort that I can look the other way.  It is disgusting.  So, time to get engaged and try to get other owners engaged as well.  We have to get owners communicating with each other so we can work together and keep both the BOD and MVW accountable.



ivywag said:


> Are there any plans to replace the floors?  They always look dirty. Your point that units are not maintained to the standards of the other Hyatt resorts is spot on.  We’ve been trading into Sunset for nearly 20 years and have put up with the lack of maintenance because of the location.  Just this year we finally purchased a unit.  Since we were going every year anyway, we decided that we would like a specific unit and purchased.  At the time of purchase we were a bit concerned that the reserves were not sufficient to maintain the resort in a first class manner as the units need a lot of updating. After seeing the 2023 maintenance fee and how little of it is going to the reserves (and how much more it would take to fully fund the reserves,) it seems that indeed we have a problem.


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## ScoopKona (Oct 20, 2022)

JanT said:


> Ultimately it is the responsibility of our elected BOD to ensure the resort is being taken care of.  If they haven't held MVW to getting the work done, that's on the BOD.
> 
> No need to continue to debate this.



The BOD tried to change management companies. That's what the vote was about. I knew the fix was in  when one of the board members did an about face and sided with MVC.

As far as I'm concerned, the board tried their level best to get owners to boot MVC as the management company -- and for good reasons which you have laid bare. I can't believe so many owners voted to keep MVC/Hyatt, when they are clearly running SH into the ground.


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## Kal (Oct 20, 2022)

ScoopKona said:


> The BOD tried to change management companies. That's what the vote was about. I knew the fix was in  when one of the board members did an about face and sided with MVC.
> 
> As far as I'm concerned, the board tried their level best to get owners to boot MVC as the management company -- and for good reasons which you have laid bare. I can't believe so many owners voted to keep MVC/Hyatt, when they are clearly running SH into the ground.


Their vote wasn't about the MVC, but about the loss of HRC exchange opportunities.  Keep the exchange and MVC might be gone.


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## GTLINZ (Oct 20, 2022)

I did not have a dog in this fight. But what amazes me is how owners got caught up in the BOD drama and failed to focus on voting to retain control of SH. This was a unique opportunity due to high weekend ownership usage, and misinformation won.


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## IslandTime (Oct 21, 2022)

If anyone is so miserable with Sunset Harbor that they want to sell week 49 in the 500 building at a bargain rate, please let me know.


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## JanT (Oct 21, 2022)

Owners didn't get so caught up in the BOD drama that they "failed to focus on voting to retain control of SH."  Owners were smart enough to know there was a whole lot of smoke and mirrors in that effort.  They were smart enough to know that not near enough work was done (in fact, basically nothing) to justify what the BOD was proposing.  They were right to vote against it.  There was so much misinformation floated, empty promises that could never come to fruition, I'm grateful owners were smart enough to push back against the BOD and the limited number of owners that were supporting it.

I've been doing a lot of digging and eventually will be putting together information for owners.  Right now, I'm still in investigative mode.  It gets more interesting every day.



GTLINZ said:


> I did not have a dog in this fight. But what amazes me is how owners got caught up in the BOD drama and failed to focus on voting to retain control of SH. This was a unique opportunity due to high weekend ownership usage, and misinformation won.


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## ScoopKona (Oct 21, 2022)

From the very first post of the Sunset Harbor vote thread:


The Board has noted the following important reasons to terminate our contracts:


A vote to terminate the Management Contract is a vote:

to take back full control of our property;
to eliminate excessive management fees; and
to contract with new management which will work solely for the benefit of owners.

A vote to terminate the Club Resort Agreement is a vote:

to eliminate substantial Club Fees which the Board believes do not benefit most owners;
to eliminate the Club’s use of our property for transient 1-to-2-night reservations;
to eliminate the Club’s requirement each year for owners to reserve or lose the right to use their deeded Unit Weeks; and
to terminate owner use of the Club’s points-based reservation and exchange system and related services which is reviewed in the Appendix to this letter.

The Board believes that termination of the Management Contract and Club Resort Agreement will allow our Association to market our Resort and the benefits of ownership as we seek to improve the demand for and value of Unit Weeks.

@GTLINZ has it right. Regardless of what happened with the board, owners could have given Marriott the heave-ho. Misinformation won. I don't think owners will have another chance. Oh, sure, they can hold a vote as often as they want. But every week that Marriott ROFRs is another vote they get to hand pick a BOD to say "how high" when they say "jump." Now there is nothing stopping Marriott from selling the same property multiple times -- which is what they wanted. (Why build a resort when you have one you can just keep selling in perpetuity?)

The local term for this is "the hoodwink." When the city/county does something that nobody (except developers) want; and it turns out exactly how everyone said it would at the commission meetings; and it turns out to be an awful idea that enriches the few at the expense of the many; the city/county throws up their hands and cries, "We wuz _hoodwinked_." Find a local who was here for Peary Court, Truman Annex, the Mosquito Control scandal, the payphones on Smathers and similar. Hoodwink was thrown around more often than a volleyball on Smathers.

Schooner Wharf Bar is still nice, though.


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## JanT (Oct 21, 2022)

Scoop,

Yes, this is what they sent out but absolutely NO plan presented to back these claims up. When asked what management company would be used, we got the "We didn't want to spend Association money exploring that until we knew it was what owners wanted. And legally, we couldn't contact other management companies." They had absolutely no problem spending an exorbitant amount of money on that boondoggle without talking to owners previously. And there is zilch legally that prevented them from speaking to other management companies and even putting a RFP together and getting a proposal from them. That happens every day in the business world. If they can't write a simple RFP then we have the wrong people on the board.

How would owners have taken full control of their resort back? A management company would have been involved and have power. How much would that have cost? Oh, that's right! We don't know because they didn't offer any of that up. And why would they think any management company would work solely for the benefit of owners? They are a business - they're in it to make money, too. And maybe, just maybe that's part of the reason this BOD pushed for it? Who would have financially benefitted from that? Who was in the pipeline to have a wad of cash or a chunk of business pushed their way if MVW was booted out? 

Substantial Club fees? Are we still bitching about the $57.00 per week fee? That's ridiculous. People who own at SH drop that or more on a meal.

I could go on and on. I can dispute everything you keep pushing. This BOD has breached its fiduciary duty to owners and they tried to lead owners down a path that would have ended up as an absolute nightmare. They've already launched us into a potential lawsuit with their dereliction of duty. There was misinformation put out there alright - by the BOD.

MVW is not buying back week after week. I know that for an absolute fact.

When people bought into Hyatt they should have realized and seen in their contract that there was almost certainly a clause that said the Hyatt Residence Club vacation plan was subject to change at any time. No one is trying to steal their weeks and force them into points. They have their weeks, they use them or they don't. Most BOD members don't even use their weeks. They rent them out for a nice tidy profit.

Please, just stop with all the drama of board members being bought off, "hoodwinked," etc. It's simply crazy damned talk. MVW is not going to risk everything they've built for a 44 unit property in Key West by "buying off" board members. Yes, it's a prime piece of real estate but they have much more money than is tied up here. You sound like a crazy person and I know you're not. Just stop with all this nonsense.  It isn't helping.



ScoopKona said:


> From the very first post of the Sunset Harbor vote thread:
> 
> 
> The Board has noted the following important reasons to terminate our contracts:
> ...


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## ScoopKona (Oct 21, 2022)

It was really very simple:

1) Vote MVC/Hyatt out of the management contract. (The second yes/no vote didn't matter one way or the other. Only the first vote was critically important.)

2) Hire a new management company. (I would have gone with the company that manages the Galleon. They're doing a good job. Galleon owners are happy with their resort. That's certainly better than what MVC is doing, and charging considerably more to do it.)

I think you are making this unnecessarily complex. The smart move was voting Hyatt/MVC out. SH owners were complaining about Hyatt management even back when I was working for the Hyatt. They have never been overjoyed about the job Hyatt is doing. And now less so that it's Hyatt-in-name-only. Henceforth, "HINO."

I really thought owners had a decent shot of getting out from under MVC. It's a real shame they didn't. I was rooting for SH owners. Giving MVC another whack upside the head might have jarred some sense into them. I'm sure Aspen owners agree with this sentiment.


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## Kal (Oct 21, 2022)

ScoopKona is not speaking of conspiracy but rather years of Key West political experience.  IMHO, he is simply saying it's almost impossible to make a change that would benefit anyone other that the high rollers in Key West.  The BOD asked basic questions but then were buried by at least one BOD member and Marriott thru their disinformation program of stooges.  By far and away, HSH owners rarely if ever vote on anything. Thus it becomes big money and the high rollers who control.  So now look at the election of the new BOD.  You can easily see where MVC placed their votes.  It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see who was rewarded for being the MVC YES people.  It's also noteworthy that Don Heisler did not receive MVC votes.  Thank goodness Don is still there even tho silenced by the MVC YES people.


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## ScoopKona (Oct 21, 2022)

Kal said:


> ScoopKona is not speaking of conspiracy but rather years of Key West political experience.  IMHO, he is simply saying it's almost impossible to make a change that would benefit anyone other that the high rollers in Key West.



And I'm not going to "name names." Because I still have friends and family on the island. There is only so much boat rocking I'm willing to do. This is no longer my circus. But I'm still friends with quite a few monkeys. And why make their existence less pleasant just to score debate points on a timeshare forum?

Best course of action was to vote yes on question 1 and toss Marriott out on its ear. That didn't happen. Now Marriott is going to consolidate. They won't ROFR every week. But they're going to ROFR diamond and platinum weeks left and right.


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## GTLINZ (Oct 21, 2022)

Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain.


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## JanT (Oct 22, 2022)

What is that supposed to mean?



GTLINZ said:


> Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain.


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## Kal (Oct 22, 2022)

JanT said:


> Scoop,
> 
> Yes, this is what they sent out but absolutely NO plan presented to back these claims up. When asked what management company would be used, we got the "We didn't want to spend Association money exploring that until we knew it was what owners wanted. And legally, we couldn't contact other management companies." They had absolutely no problem spending an exorbitant amount of money on that boondoggle without talking to owners previously. And there is zilch legally that prevented them from speaking to other management companies and even putting a RFP together and getting a proposal from them. That happens every day in the business world. If they can't write a simple RFP then we have the wrong people on the board.
> 
> ...


A buy off could be as simple as putting out the word that the BOD member has MVW's votes for the upcoming election.  The payoff is simply "Woopee, I get to be on the BOD for the next term!"  How did that work?  Yep, that BOD member got MVW's votes, which are decisive with routine poor owner turnout.


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## Kal (Oct 22, 2022)

JanT said:


> What is that supposed to mean?


You're not in Kansas anymore.


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## GTLINZ (Oct 22, 2022)

Kal said:


> You're not in Kansas anymore.



LOL Kal.  I was just trying to interject some humor with a famous line from a movie and you took it to another level.

JanT - my reference/analagy was that the wizard of oz wanted owners to pay attention to what was on the screen and not to what was actually happening.  A simple vote and a chance to control your own destiny by breaking away.  I am not sure why it had to become all about the board.

Again i don't own there and I am not emotionally involved.  So good luck with resolving the mound of issues you have correctly outlined without having much control.   Just my opinion, obviously.  I hope i did not get you riled up.


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## JanT (Oct 22, 2022)

No, I just didn't understand what you meant.  I'm riled up but it has nothing to do with you.



GTLINZ said:


> LOL Kal.  I was just trying to interject some humor with a famous line from a movie and you took it to another level.
> 
> JanT - my reference/analagy was that the wizard of oz wanted owners to pay attention to what was on the screen and not to what was actually happening.  A simple vote and a chance to control your own destiny by breaking away.  I am not sure why it had to become all about the board.
> 
> Again i don't own there and I am not emotionally involved.  So good luck with resolving the mound of issues you have correctly outlined without having much control.   Just my opinion, obviously.  I hope i did not get you riled up.


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## JanT (Oct 22, 2022)

No, I'm not.  I'm not sure what you think of me (and don't really care) but let me assure you that I'm an educated, intelligent person, who just happens to finally be paying attention at what the Hell is going on at a resort that I paid a lot of money for and continue to pay a lot of money for.

I may be fighting a losing battle but unlike many others, I don't think the fight is solely with MVW and I don't view MVW as the bogeyman.  I'm not happy with them either but I'm not so damned paranoid about their intentions that I lose sight of reality.  I'm going to be fighting two entities. People can say whatever they want about me: call me naive, foolish, bored, looking for "a life" - it doesn't matter to me. I'm not going to sit back and do nothing. Maybe I'll make a difference or maybe I won't. But, I refuse to sit on my ass and do nothing. In the end I can look at myself in the mirror and know that I at least tried.  If I accomplish nothing, well it's no skin off anyone else's nose.  It's my time and money spent; my anger, my frustration.

Owners can be united but it's going to take some effort.  Not many have tried is my guess.  I've certainly never gotten any correspondence from anyone.  The problem is apparently SH has a lot of apathetic owners but they need to wake the Hell up.  The drum keeps getting pounded that MVW is the sole problem here and they aren't.  The BOD has their own ulterior motives and they have failed owners.  In my opinion, they're intentionally running the resort into the ground, refusing to bring the resort up to an acceptable level - all for their own benefit.

If owners at SH are content to stay at this nasty, filthy, rundown resort and can accept what's coming down the line, well that's their choice. They can choose to spend their time at a local restaurant or bar and go back to a bug invested, rotting room. If they believe that load of termination crap sent out by the board, they're foolish. Lowering MFs? LoL Cutting Management Company costs? LoL Complete control over their resort? LoL Raise resale prices? What the Hell are these people smoking???? Timeshares aren't investments. Only people lying to you will tell you that.

But, again, that's other owners' choices.  But, it's not mine.  If there aren't changes made, I'll walk away from my units.  They can foreclose if they want but if they screw with my credit, they will have the biggest fight on their hands that they've ever seen.  No court of law will uphold anything they try to do when presented with evidence of a decaying resort and the BOD breach of fiduciary duty to owners.  Do they really want to open that can of worms?  

But, actually if I choose to rid myself of SH, I think I'll just sign my deeds over to MVW - personally deliver the deeds to MVW, in fact.  Gives them 3 more votes and stronger control and hopefully they'll force the BOD to take action to clean this damned mess up.  It won't be my problem anymore but the owners who linger behind will be in for a really rude awakening when the BOD continues to let this resort run down to the point of no recovery.  Don't believe me?  Just watch.




Kal said:


> You're not in Kansas anymore.


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## ScoopKona (Oct 22, 2022)

JanT said:


> I may be fighting a losing battle but unlike many others, I don't think the fight is solely with MVW and I don't view MVW as the bogeyman.  I'm not happy with them either but I'm not so damned paranoid about their intentions that I lose sight of reality.  I'm going to be fighting two entities. People can say whatever they want about me: call me naive, foolish, bored, looking for "a life" - it doesn't matter to me. I'm not going to sit back and do nothing. Maybe I'll make a difference or maybe I won't. But, I refuse to sit on my ass and do nothing. In the end I can look at myself in the mirror and know that I at least tried.  If I accomplish nothing, well it's no skin off anyone else's nose.  It's my time and money spent; my anger, my frustration.



Your best opportunity to do something already came... and went. If you were as fired up to get people to vote yes on question one, we wouldn't be having this discussion right now. Sunset Harbor would no longer be a Hyatt resort. And the owners would be discussing the new management company, and how they're doing compared to Hyatt.

I also fail to see why you're so angry with the BOD instead of the real culprit -- the management company. Don Heisler isn't in charge of cleaning the resort. MVC is. If you don't think you're getting your money's worth, that isn't Don's fault. It's not that you're fighting a losing battle. You're fighting the wrong battle entirely. That battle already happened.

Compare the Galleon to Sunset Harbor. Compare resale prices. Compare the cleanliness of the resort. Compare how the owners feel about their condo. There's no comparison. Sunset Harbor should be managed by the same company which manages the Galleon. They're right over there, after all. You should go to the Galleon and ask to have a look around. I'm sure they'll let you.


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## IslandTime (Oct 22, 2022)

JanT said:


> If owners at SH are content to stay at this nasty, filthy, rundown resort and can accept what's coming down the line, well that's their choice. They can choose to spend their time at a local restaurant or bar and go back to a bug invested, rotting room. If they believe that load of termination crap sent out by the board, they're foolish. Lowering MFs? LoL Cutting Management Company costs? LoL Complete control over their resort? LoL Raise resale prices? What the Hell are these people smoking???? Timeshares aren't investments. Only people lying to you will tell you that.
> 
> But, again, that's other owners' choices.  But, it's not mine.  If there aren't changes made, I'll walk away from my units.  They can foreclose if they want but if they screw with my credit, they will have the biggest fight on their hands that they've ever seen.  No court of law will uphold anything they try to do when presented with evidence of a decaying resort and the BOD breach of fiduciary duty to owners.  Do they really want to open that can of worms?
> 
> But, actually if I choose to rid myself of SH, I think I'll just sign my deeds over to MVW - personally deliver the deeds to MVW, in fact.  Gives them 3 more votes and stronger control and hopefully they'll force the BOD to take action to clean this damned mess up.  It won't be my problem anymore but the owners who linger behind will be in for a really rude awakening when the BOD continues to let this resort run down to the point of no recovery.  Don't believe me?  Just watch.



Would you mind sharing which units you've stayed in that are nasty, filthy, bug infested and rotting? We've only owned since 2011 and at times I have felt the tile floors could use an extra mopping but none of the units we've stayed in have fit your description. We were there for a week in July and I find it hard to believe it's gone that far downhill since then. And we stay at HSH every year for at least a week. Prior to 2021 we stayed there multiple weeks a year. We don't always stay in the unit we own because we often stay multiple weeks spread throughout the year in a studio. But I just can't believe we've stayed in the same units as you, based on your comments. 

I don't share the animosity for our BOD that you do, nor do I understand it. Do you really think the BOD doesn't care about the condition of the resort? It's not like they're paid to be on the board - unlike Marriott being paid big bucks to run and maintain the resort. But go ahead, give your weeks to Marriott - that will show us. Marriott already won, the owners did not.


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## JanT (Oct 22, 2022)

Island Time,

I’d prefer not to reveal what unit were in right now.  I can post that later, after we leave.  And I have to run down what unit we were in last December.  I can’t remember off the top of my head and haven’t walked over there yet.

Did you look at the pictures I posted in this same thread? If not, take a look at them. I promise you those were taken in our unit.

I know some people do not understand my animosity towards the BOD. I’m very angry right now - at MVW and  the BOD. There are just failures all the way around. I’ve done a lot of research and what I’m finding is driving frustration at both parties.

I can do whatever I want with my weeks.  If I choose to just sign them back over because I refuse to try to suck someone else into buying an inferior product, that’s my choice.  I honestly don’t see myself doing that but they’ve got to change things here. Otherwise, we’re all going to want to get out.





IslandTime said:


> Would you mind sharing which units you've stayed in that are nasty, filthy, bug infested and rotting? We've only owned since 2011 and at times I have felt the tile floors could use an extra mopping but none of the units we've stayed in have fit your description. We were there for a week in July and I find it hard to believe it's gone that far downhill since then. And we stay at HSH every year for at least a week. Prior to 2021 we stayed there multiple weeks a year. We don't always stay in the unit we own because we often stay multiple weeks spread throughout the year in a studio. But I just can't believe we've stayed in the same units as you, based on your comments.
> 
> I don't share the animosity for our BOD that you do, nor do I understand it. Do you really think the BOD doesn't care about the condition of the resort? It's not like they're paid to be on the board - unlike Marriott being paid big bucks to run and maintain the resort. But go ahead, give your weeks to Marriott - that will show us. Marriott already won, the owners did not.


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## SUN-N-Fun (Oct 23, 2022)

It almost sounds like a member directory and a way to communicate directly with existing owners would be a good thing. Pretty sure I asked about one months ago and the only ones are held by a handful of people.

How can owners communicate with one another? A message board or FB group isn’t it


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## AJCts411 (Oct 24, 2022)

SUN-N-Fun said:


> It almost sounds like a member directory and a way to communicate directly with existing owners would be a good thing. Pretty sure I asked about one months ago and the only ones are held by a handful of people.
> 
> How can owners communicate with one another? A message board or FB group isn’t it



It is too bad that just ONE of those who were on the Marylin email chain that exposed all of the owners email adresses would not forward the same email to Jan or myself.  That would be a least start at evening the playing field.


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## Bunk (Oct 24, 2022)

Are any members of the BOD employees or officers of MVC/Hyatt?


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## AJCts411 (Oct 24, 2022)

I always thought BOD members must also be owners.


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## JanT (Oct 24, 2022)

No.  Any BOD member must be an owner.



Bunk said:


> Are any members of the BOD employees or officers of MVC/Hyatt?


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## JanT (Oct 24, 2022)

AJCts411,

That is correct.  BOD members must be owners.



AJCts411 said:


> I always thought BOD members must also be owners.


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## JanT (Oct 24, 2022)

AJCts411,

The legal ramifications of gaining access to that list wouldn't be something we would want to be embroiled in. While it seems harmless enough to gain access to it, it could (and almost certainly would) cause problems for everyone involved. All it would take is one owner to ask how someone got their email address and if they were upset enough and were so inclined, they could sue. And if knowing the list was confidential and we still used the information, we could be right in the middle of it. I'll just pass on that, as I'm sure you will.  



AJCts411 said:


> It is too bad that just ONE of those who were on the Marylin email chain that exposed all of the owners email adresses would not forward the same email to Jan or myself.  That would be a least start at evening the playing field.


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## ScoopKona (Oct 24, 2022)

AJCts411 said:


> I always thought BOD members must also be owners.



But owners can also be employees for Hyatt/MVC. Most of the salespeople who work in Key West owned a week or two. 

If I recall correctly, a few of them got their wrists slapped recently for buying foreclosed weeks on the cheap before the general public found out. There were some names I recognized from when I worked there.


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## AJCts411 (Oct 24, 2022)

JanT said:


> AJCts411,
> 
> The legal ramifications of gaining access to that list wouldn't be something we would want to be embroiled in. While it seems harmless enough to gain access to it, it could (and almost certainly would) cause problems for everyone involved. All it would take is one owner to ask how someone got their email address and if they were upset enough and were so inclined, they could sue. And if knowing the list was confidential and we still used the information, we could be right in the middle of it. I'll just pass on that, as I'm sure you will.


I'd have to disagree about confidential.  The information collected was voluntary given and likely without restriction. If anyone had a problem with public distribution, which I observe as what happened, IMO then they need to complain to that person.  I'm no lawyer but how do you undo something that is already in the public?


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## JanT (Oct 24, 2022)

You have to read the Florida State statute for that time period.  It's very clear - certain information could not be revealed without an owner's specific approval.  There was information that was on that list was confidential and protected.  And while it was voluntarily given to Hyatt/MVW, there is a stipulation that it is for electronic communication by Hyatt/MVW/BOD.  So, there are legal implications to having had it exposed.  That is why I was so upset.  Obviously, people knew about it when it happened, but 2,000 owners didn't know.  Once it got out in the public forum, that exposed it even further.  Statute of limitations for someone to sue is almost always governed by when a person discovers their information has been compromised.  We live in such a litigious society anymore, I'm just holding my breath.



AJCts411 said:


> I'd have to disagree about confidential.  The information collected was voluntary given and likely without restriction. If anyone had a problem with public distribution, which I observe as what happened, IMO then they need to complain to that person.  I'm no lawyer but how do you undo something that is already in the public?


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## AJCts411 (Oct 25, 2022)

JanT said:


> You have to read the Florida State statute for that time period.  It's very clear - certain information could not be revealed without an owner's specific approval.  There was information that was on that list was confidential and protected.  And while it was voluntarily given to Hyatt/MVW, there is a stipulation that it is for electronic communication by Hyatt/MVW/BOD.  So, there are legal implications to having had it exposed.  That is why I was so upset.  Obviously, people knew about it when it happened, but 2,000 owners didn't know.  Once it got out in the public forum, that exposed it even further.  Statute of limitations for someone to sue is almost always governed by when a person discovers their information has been compromised.  We live in such a litigious society anymore, I'm just holding my breath.



Thanks for this info.  Just to clarify I was refering to the M.G. email.  We know that every owner name and details are available online in the deed of public records (search the county records) and can be downloaded and filtered. Searching names and associated addresses will find a large percentage of their emails. Time consuming for sure. That's a FYI for anyone trying to build a list.


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## JanT (Oct 25, 2022)

You're talking about the list that went out in 2020 from M.G.?  The information on that list absolutely was confidential as defined by Florida State Statute.  

Going through public records is tedious!!!  But, it's the only way at this point that I can see we can gather much of the information we need.  Even then it won't always be accurate because of the lag time in getting deeds recorded, etc.  Apparently, Monroe County is backed up right now and very slow.  



AJCts411 said:


> Thanks for this info.  Just to clarify I was refering to the M.G. email.  We know that every owner name and details are available online in the deed of public records (search the county records) and can be downloaded and filtered. Searching names and associated addresses will find a large percentage of their emails. Time consuming for sure. That's a FYI for anyone trying to build a list.


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## JanT (Oct 26, 2022)

As I've dug deeper into issues surrounding Sunset Harbor, I've come to the conclusion that I was off-base on my take about BOD member, Marilyn Gordon.  When I'm off-base or wrong, I step up and admit it.  

There is absolutely no disputing that her actions (outlined in my previous post) were a breach of fiduciary duty to both the owners and the rest of the BOD.
One seemingly caused by a lack of attention to detail and the other, I believe, caused by her sincere concerns about the path being followed as the BOD moved forward in their efforts to terminate the management contract and resort agreement at SH. I took the opportunity at the recent annual meeting of the association to address Ms. Gordon and cautioned her to please be more careful and also to explain that once the BOD has voted in the majority on an effort, she has to stand in support of that effort.

As I've continued to try and get a handle on what's going on at SH, both with the property and the BOD/MVW, I've gotten a much clearer picture. I've spoken to alot of people, who I feel were being truthful with me. It's amazing what wandering the streets of Key West can reveal. I've learned that Ms. Gordon's concerns about the path being followed in the termination efforts very much mirrored my own and those concerns have validity. I'll leave it at that for right now. While she didn't handle things correctly, in the end, I believe she made the right decision to speak out against the termination effort as more details were revealed, even though it fostered an atmosphere of distrust and created a flood of anger directed at herself. I believe Ms. Gordon made the right decision to be honest with other owners that know her and were looking to her for anwers. Had I been in her position, I would have handled things differently from the beginning, but, in the end, she did what she felt she had to do with what she had to work with. I have to have some level of respect for her to take that action, knowing the backlash she was going to face. Not many would have the guts to do that.

I'm not saying I agree with Ms. Gordon on every issue. I'm very upset with the BOD as a whole. But, I believe I was wrong in my initial assessment of her and I'm taking the opportunity to set the record straight and to apologize publically to her. I should have just contacted her directly in the beginning, instead of basing my assessment solely on her actions. I should have been more open-minded to the possibility that there were good reasons for her about-face on the termination effort. Again, I don't like how she went about it but I honestly believe that initially there was a lack of understanding on her part of how the process was going to play out. Once she realized what was happening, she took the only path she felt she could. I respect that.

This is going to anger some people. I don't care. Be angry if you want. When I'm wrong, I admit it. And know this: *I intend to shine a bright light on what's going on at SH; operations by both the BOD and MVW.  They're going to know that someone is FINALLY watching them and is going to hold them accountable for their decisions.  I'm working with others to get owners consolidated, get information to them, and to get them involved.  Owner participation is the absolute key to getting things turned around there and enough of us are concerned now and are going to do our best to get rid of the apathy that has prevailed among SH owners up to this point.*


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