# FSP system



## w.bob (Dec 28, 2008)

I have been looking at Wyndham timeshares and just want to be sure I understand the system correctly. If I purchase a Wyndham points property  it will come with x amount of Wyndham points based on the location, size, maint. fees etc. These points will be known up front before purchasing. If I use the unit every year the points credited for the timeshare on the anniversary date will cover the use of the unit for that year. Is there any charge to use your home resort each year or Every Other Year if that is what you purchase. 

Trading - If I decide I want to trade I can trade within Wyndham and I can also deposit with RCI and trade through them. I know RCI requires a fee and I would think Wyndham also charges to trade internally. 

When purchasing will the Wyndham points for your home resort automatically go into the FSP system? Is there a charge to open or maintain the FSP account. I realize that if I deposit with RCI there is a charge but I am not clear with the FSP system.

Am I right in thinking that when a Wyndham property is purchased the points awarded for that property automatically go into an FSP account for you which you can use at your home resort property or for internal trades within the Wyndham system or to trade through RCI.

If I am missing something can someone suggest a site that goes into detail as to how Wyndham works.

Once I am sure I understand how the points accounts are set up I know I will be asking for help with all of the tips for using your points.


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## Conan (Dec 28, 2008)

w.bob said:


> If I use the unit every year the points credited for the timeshare on the anniversary date will cover the use of the unit for that year. Is there any charge to use your home resort each year or Every Other Year if that is what you purchase.


The number of points will match a seasonal requirement at your home resort - - prime season, high season, etc. so depending on the week you want to reserve you may have more or less than you need.

Besides the maintenance you pay there's a "dues" charge which is why there's no charge to reserve not only your home resort but any Wyndham property that you've sufficient points to book



> Trading - If I decide I want to trade I can trade within Wyndham and I can also deposit with RCI and trade through them. I know RCI requires a fee and I would think Wyndham also charges to trade internally.


 As above, no fee for internal Wyndham trades. RCI fees do apply and they're significant - - something like $149 domestic/$199 international I don't recall the exact current price. 



> When purchasing will the Wyndham points for your home resort automatically go into the FSP system? Is there a charge to open or maintain the FSP account. I realize that if I deposit with RCI there is a charge but I am not clear with the FSP system.


There's a setup fee (maybe $99?) and after that the dues component of your maintenance covers it.



> Am I right in thinking that when a Wyndham property is purchased the points awarded for that property automatically go into an FSP account for you which you can use at your home resort property or for internal trades within the Wyndham system or to trade through RCI.


Your FSP points associated with your home resort give you the right to reserve 13 months in advance -- all others (and you at other properties) first reserve 10 months in advance. Home resort also establishes the maintenance fee and possible special assessments that you pay.



> If I am missing something can someone suggest a site that goes into detail as to how Wyndham works.


http://forums.atozed.com/ucp.php?mode=register


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## w.bob (Dec 28, 2008)

rklein001 said:


> Besides the maintenance you pay there's a "dues" charge which is why there's no charge to reserve not only your home resort but any Wyndham property that you've sufficient points to book
> http://forums.atozed.com/ucp.php?mode=register



Thanks for the reply. It helped a lot. I will look at the Wndham forum to gain a better understanding of the system.

If I understand you correctly the "dues" are included in the maint fees for all of the Wyndham properties.


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## Sandy VDH (Dec 28, 2008)

But beware there are 4 types of ownership:

1) There are UDI Points - these are sales that were for straight points (this is the way they sell all of them now)
2) There are fixed weeks converted to FSP points already (someone else paid the conversion fee already)
3) There are fixed weeks that have NEVER been converted to points (older resorts, prior to points with owners that have never paid to convert to points)
4) There are a very few RTU Affliates and/or deeds sold as RTU

1 and 2 are already in points.

3 is not in points, so beware of these.

4 is likely in points, but expire, some Mexico Affiliates are like this.

Make sure you get specifics about what you are buying

Also for the answer posted above, the internal fees are NOT always free.  You get a limited number of free transactions and guest certificates (GC) and when you have used them all there is a fee.  But it is nominal for reservations and NOT so nominal for GCs.

See the 2007-2008 Guide for information. http://tinyurl.com/274l5r


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## tango (Dec 28, 2008)

Sandy Lovell said:


> But beware there are 4 types of ownership:
> 
> 3) There are fixed weeks that have NEVER been converted to points (older resorts, prior to points with owners that have never paid to convert to points)
> ...
> 3 is not in points, so beware of these.



Why is this?  Is it because they are more difficult to trade, or involve more fees to trade, or some other unfavorable minimum or maximum time for booking?  Or is it mainly that you would have to pay a conversion fee in order to convert to points.
This and other posts (http://tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=87754)still have not made clear to me the benefit of converting to a points base system.


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## timeos2 (Dec 28, 2008)

*The Wyndham weeks system is nearly DOA*



tango said:


> Why is this?  Is it because they are more difficult to trade, or involve more fees to trade, or some other unfavorable minimum or maximum time for booking?  Or is it mainly that you would have to pay a conversion fee in order to convert to points.
> This and other posts (http://tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=87754)still have not made clear to me the benefit of converting to a points base system.



They only trade in weeks with RCI and the internal FAX system in Wyndham. The FAX system is nearly dead and the resorts that have weeks are older, not particularly well located for demand thus not great RCI traders. If you plan to USE one and it's the right location/week for you they can be a deal as they are very cheap usually.  But converting them to points - if they even qualify (some don't) - is far too costly compared to simply buying (resale of course) an existing points based unit.


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## vacationhopeful (Dec 28, 2008)

IF you want a Florida beach week in the winter, an older fixed week is a deal (or steal if you like) as long as YOU are going to use it almost every year.   If not you will have to trade it thru an exchange company - NOT the FSP (WYndham points) system.


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## Conan (Dec 28, 2008)

w.bob said:


> If I understand you correctly the "dues" are included in the maint fees for all of the Wyndham properties.


 
The program fee as it's called is a separate charge that's added to your maintenance.  The last figure I have for it is $.57 per thousand points per year.  So if you own 189,000 points your maintenance will be around $900 to $1,000 per year depending on location, plus $108 of program fee.


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## w.bob (Dec 28, 2008)

Sandy Lovell said:


> But beware there are 4 types of ownership:
> 
> 1) There are UDI Points - these are sales that were for straight points (this is the way they sell all of them now)
> 2) There are fixed weeks converted to FSP points already (someone else paid the conversion fee already)
> ...



Is there an advantage or disadvantage of having a UDI points versus a weeks converted to points timeshare? How would you know what type you are purchasing?


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## tango (Dec 29, 2008)

timeos2 said:


> They only trade in weeks with RCI and the internal FAX system in Wyndham. The FAX system is nearly dead and the resorts that have weeks are older, not particularly well located for demand thus not great RCI traders. If you plan to USE one and it's the right location/week for you they can be a deal as they are very cheap usually.  But converting them to points - if they even qualify (some don't) - is far too costly compared to simply buying (resale of course) an existing points based unit.



So, if I understand right, owning a fixed week in the Wyndham system is a disadvantage, because if one wanted to trade that week, one could only trade in whole week blocks in the RCI system.  One week at home resort for another whole week at a comparable resort, or less.  One could not split weeks.  And points offer the flexibility of using part of the points for what ever block of time at another resort based on it's point value.

Another questions arises.  Does a "floating week" generally convert to less points than a "fixed week", if that fixed week is not one of the high demand weeks like Christmas week.


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## w.bob (Dec 29, 2008)

*another question on exchanging*

I have another question related to the reserving a resort through the  points system.

Please correct me if I am wrong regarding the following scenario.

An every other, even year resort, starting in 2010 has its anniversary date for depositing points on January 1, 2010. In theory you would be able to book something at your home resort on January 1, 2010 if it is avail. up to 13 months out. Does this mean I can actually book a home resort unit in Feb. 2011 if it is avail.?

Also if I had enough points to split into 2 reservations on that same anniversary date of Jan. 1, 2010 I would be able to book a NON home resort up to 10 months out so I would be able to book at any Wyndham resort up to October of 2010 assuming there is availability and I have enough points.

Would I have until Dec. 31, 2010 to reserve something through Wyndham without losing my points for 2010? If that is correct then I can book something at my home resort 13 months out which would allow me to actually booked a unit on Dec. 31, 2010 up to January 31, 2012 if something is available. The same time line would work with the splitting of the points into 2 reservations but that would be based on the 10 months out. 

If nothing is avail or if circumstances do not allow travel during that time frame I can always deposit into RCI etc. by Dec. 31, 2010 without losing my points. 

I have only traded in weeks through SFX & RCI and I need to understand Wyndham points before I take the leap into points. Thanks


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## Conan (Dec 29, 2008)

w.bob said:


> An every other, even year resort, starting in 2010 has its anniversary date for depositing points on January 1, 2010. In theory you would be able to book something at your home resort on January 1, 2010 if it is avail. up to 13 months out. Does this mean I can actually book a home resort unit in Feb. 2011 if it is avail.?


If you own EOY even-year points, the first day to book January, 2010 is in December, 2008 and the first day to book December, 2010 is in November, 2009.



> Also if I had enough points to split into 2 reservations on that same anniversary date of Jan. 1, 2010 I would be able to book a NON home resort up to 10 months out so I would be able to book at any Wyndham resort up to October of 2010 assuming there is availability and I have enough points.


Your even year EOY points would be usable in Wyndham beyond your home resort to call March, 2009 to book January, 2010 or to call Feb, 2010 to book December, 2010



> Would I have until Dec. 31, 2010 to reserve something through Wyndham without losing my points for 2010? If that is correct then I can book something at my home resort 13 months out which would allow me to actually booked a unit on Dec. 31, 2010 up to January 31, 2012 if something is available. The same time line would work with the splitting of the points into 2 reservations but that would be based on the 10 months out.


Still talking about points for the 2010 year, they'll expire at the end of 2010 unless used sooner. "Used" means taking a December 2010 vacation (bookable from 13/10 months ahead or down to the wire, i.e. if you call in December 2010 and make a reservation for that same month. "Used" also means depositing them into the RCI weeks system, so if you're down to the wire and don't take a December 2010 vacation you can deposit those points into RCI which makes them eligible in that system for an RCI exchange date up to December 2012 (the usual RCI 2-year forward window).


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## Jya-Ning (Dec 29, 2008)

tango said:


> So, if I understand right, owning a fixed week in the Wyndham system is a disadvantage,
> Another questions arises.  Does a "floating week" generally convert to less points than a "fixed week", if that fixed week is not one of the high demand weeks like Christmas week.




Depends on the underline fix week.  In ARP time, you only get that week.  If it is great week, you will enjoy more benefits than UDI units.  But if it is great week, I doubt you will see it on eBay.

Floating week should convert to the total points in the same type of unit that week is floating divided by the number of weeks the floating is.  So, it may converted to less points than the best week your floating week can get, but should get close and better to other weeks your weeks can get.  

Jya-Ning


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## w.bob (Dec 29, 2008)

Thanks for the reply.



rklein001 said:


> If you own EOY even-year points, the first day to book January, 2010 is in December, 2008 and the first day to book December, 2010 is in November, 2009.
> 
> 
> Still talking about points for the 2010 year, they'll expire at the end of 2010 unless used sooner. "Used" means taking a December 2010 vacation (bookable from 13/10 months ahead or down to the wire, i.e. if you call in December 2010 and make a reservation for that same month. "Used" also means depositing them into the RCI weeks system, so if you're down to the wire and don't take a December 2010 vacation you can deposit those points into RCI which makes them eligible in that system for an RCI exchange date up to December 2012 (the usual RCI 2-year forward window).



I based this on 2010 because I am considering buying a unit which would begin EOY in 2010. I do not have the points in hand 13 months before. Based on your answer once I purchase the unit and I am in the Wyndham system I can then reserve something. I would be at a slight disadvantage time wise for reserving at my home resort. Ex. Based on it taking 6 months to complete the sale I would then be able to reserve my home resort in June of 2009. I would think the seller would be able to reserve now in my name if they didn't already do so for themselves. Once I am established as the owner then I would be on the regular timetable for 2012. If I wanted my home resort in Sept. 2012 I could reserve in August of 2011.


I was thinking you would not have access to the points for 2010 until the anniversary date of Jan 1, 2010 but it appears you will have access to those 2010 points 13 months in advance if reserving at your home resort.


 I think I understand what you are saying about the points expiring. All of the points have to actually be used through Wyndham by the end of the Every Other Even year, so I would have to physically take the vacation by the end of 2010 otherwise I would lose the 2010 points. The other option would be to deposit with RCI to give me options. I was looking at "Used" as acquiring a reservation by the end of 2010 to be used at another time.

Thanks for setting me straight. Thats why I love this place.


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## sandkastle4966 (Dec 29, 2008)

*Fixed weeks....*

I (more or less) like my fixed week - I ALWAYS have a something to online search in RCI - I know how it trades relative to generic deposits.  I don't have to fuss with Wyndham to give me a visible.    Plus I find it will pick up just about any Wynhdam deposit in RCI.

FYI - I have NEVER seen my fixed Pagosa week.......


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## w.bob (Dec 29, 2008)

I just found a lot of info in the Fairshare Plus members directory. It gives a lot of information directly related to several of the questions I asked. Wish I found it first. 

http://s7d1.scene7.com/s7ondemand/brochure/flash_brochure.jsp?company=CendantTimeshareResorts&sku=05_07CendWynd&config=05_07CendWynd&vc=instanceName=CendWynd


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## timeos2 (Dec 29, 2008)

tango said:


> So, if I understand right, owning a fixed week in the Wyndham system is a disadvantage, because if one wanted to trade that week, one could only trade in whole week blocks in the RCI system.  One week at home resort for another whole week at a comparable resort, or less.  One could not split weeks.  And points offer the flexibility of using part of the points for what ever block of time at another resort based on it's point value.



Correct. 



tango said:


> Another questions arises.  Does a "floating week" generally convert to less points than a "fixed week", if that fixed week is not one of the high demand weeks like Christmas week.



Yes. The fixed weeks tend to be the best times while any float weeks are the less desirable times. They were sold that way so people could get different dates but were still limited to the non-prime times.


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## Timeshare Von (Dec 29, 2008)

tango said:


> Why is this?  Is it because they are more difficult to trade, or involve more fees to trade, or some other unfavorable minimum or maximum time for booking?  Or is it mainly that you would have to pay a conversion fee in order to convert to points.
> This and other posts (http://tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=87754)still have not made clear to me the benefit of converting to a points base system.




Some of us fixed weeks owners actually like what we bought 

I own a 3BR L/O wk 18 in Williamsburg and a 2BR wk 12 in Flagstaff.  Both are nice times of the year to travel to these locations and in the case of Williamsburg, we get two weeks of vacationing out of a week of ownership.

No reason to pay to convert and have higher MF's on top of what we already pay.


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## timeos2 (Dec 29, 2008)

Timeshare Von said:


> Some of us fixed weeks owners actually like what we bought
> 
> I own a 3BR L/O wk 18 in Williamsburg and a 2BR wk 12 in Flagstaff.  Both are nice times of the year to travel to these locations and in the case of Williamsburg, we get two weeks of vacationing out of a week of ownership.
> 
> No reason to pay to convert and have higher MF's on top of what we already pay.



If you are buying to use at the resort then a fixed week can be a great deal. If you are looking to trade it isn't. And the cost to convert to FSP with an existing (or newly purchased) fixed week is prohibitive.


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## Bill4728 (Dec 29, 2008)

tango said:


> So, if I understand right, owning a fixed week in the Wyndham system is a disadvantage, because if one wanted to trade that week, one could only trade in whole week blocks in the RCI system.  One week at home resort for another whole week at a comparable resort, or less.  One could not split weeks.  And points offer the flexibility of using part of the points for what ever block of time at another resort based on it's point value.
> 
> Another questions arises.  Does a "floating week" generally convert to less points than a "fixed week", if that fixed week is not one of the high demand weeks like Christmas week.



Owning a fixed/floating, un-converted week can be either good or bad. If you want to go to that location most all of the time, then getting a week which is locked into that resort may be a very good thing. ( the hawaii & gulf coast resorts may be an example)  BUT if you want Wyndham to do internal trading, owning a TS which isn't in FSP is a big minus.  Trading within RCI may be good or bad, because the Hawaii & Gulf coast TSs will trade very well because they are in super high demand.


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## bnoble (Dec 29, 2008)

> If you are buying to use at the resort then a fixed week can be a great deal. If you are looking to trade it isn't.


As is usually the case in timesharing, sometimes this is true, and sometimes it isn't.  It depends on the week you own, and it depends on what you are trying to get.

There are three cases to consider:

Low-demand inventory.  Typically, this is most efficiently obtained by using small-point weeks (28K-70K) via external exchange.
High demand internal inventory at FairShare Plus resorts.  The easiest way to get this time is to book via FSP.  This may not necessarily be the cheapest way to get it, but it's usually reasonable.  Worse, depending on external exchange via fixed weeks leaves you to the whim's of Wyndham's deposit strategy.
High demand external inventory, at non-Wyndham resorts.   Usually, Wyndham FSP points deposits won't even see these weeks, but even if they have enough trade power, it's almost always cheaper to use a fixed week with a favorable supply/demand curve instead.

If I were only going to own one thing, it would be points in a large mini-system: WorldMark, Wyndham, Blueegreen, etc.  I would choose between them based on the resorts in the system relative to my own vacation needs.  But, the very next thing I'd add to my timeshare portfolio is an inexpensive fixed week with a favorable supply/demand curve.


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## timeos2 (Dec 29, 2008)

bnoble said:


> If I were only going to own one thing, it would be points in a large mini-system: WorldMark, Wyndham, Blueegreen, etc.  I would choose between them based on the resorts in the system relative to my own vacation needs.  But, the very next thing I'd add to my timeshare portfolio is an inexpensive fixed week with a favorable supply/demand curve.



But the OP is talking specifically about Wyndham fixed weeks not fixed weeks in general. Those (old, fixedWyndham weeks) tend to be the leftover times at older resorts as the top times were worth a greater amount of FSP points and the original owners got great deals back when to convert to points. The White and Blue times weren't offered the deals and thats how they ended up basically orphans. 

Absolutely a good fixed week in an indemand location/time can be a very valuable ownership for use and trade. But off season or low demand areas are true dogs and really only have value for use.


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## tango (Dec 29, 2008)

I would mostly buy to use personally at the resort I buy at, which would be in Hawaii.  Most of the units I see for sale at this time at the resort of interest, are unconverted floating weeks (but they float week 1-52, and it is always high season).  So, it sounds like it doesn't quite matter whether the TS was converted or unconverted for my case, and even maybe preferable to be unconverted.
Sorry, didn't mean to hijack your thread Bob, hopefully this info is of use to you also.


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## bnoble (Dec 29, 2008)

> But the OP is talking specifically about Wyndham fixed weeks not fixed weeks in general. Those (old, fixedWyndham weeks) tend to be the leftover times at older resorts as the top times were worth a greater amount of FSP points and the original owners got great deals back when to convert to points.


Again, some but not all.  There are still some prime unconverted weeks out there.

Blue/White fixed weeks are often poor values whether converted or not.  If they are unconverted, they don't trade well at all in the fixed-week exchanges.  If they are converted, they often have fee ratios that are too high.

That said, my points deed is a converted week---technically red, but really the very palest shade of pink.  It's much more valuable converted than it would be as a fixed week in trade.  The bottom line for me is still: if I had only one ownership, it would be a mini-system in points.


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## slabeaume (Dec 30, 2008)

tango said:


> I would mostly buy to use personally at the resort I buy at, which would be in Hawaii.  Most of the units I see for sale at this time at the resort of interest, are unconverted floating weeks (but they float week 1-52, and it is always high season).  So, it sounds like it doesn't quite matter whether the TS was converted or unconverted for my case, and even maybe preferable to be unconverted.
> Sorry, didn't mean to hijack your thread Bob, hopefully this info is of use to you also.




If you're not planning to exchange your Hawaii week, I believe buying into the resort itself is a better deal.  We own at KBV and attended a couple of the Wyndham presentations there.  They would have converted all our weeks if we bought another one, but the maintenance fees were higher for Wyndham and the other membership dues seemed to cancel out the RCI exchange fee if we did want to do an exchange.   If you think you won't want to go there every year, then Wyndham might be a good option---but I wouldn't buy a Hawaii week as my home unit then because of the high maintenance fees.  We also own in Worldmark and I find it a lot more user friendly then Wyndham (maybe because I'm used to it).


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## Sandy VDH (Dec 30, 2008)

w.bob said:


> Is there an advantage or disadvantage of having a UDI points versus a weeks converted to points timeshare? How would you know what type you are purchasing?



If your underlying week that is converted is a big point week you may be better off, eg I own a converted Sea Gardens lockout, red time, worth 231K, MF are only $617 + ~$80 taxes (not yet billed), so under $700.  Not bad for 231K.  UDI points MF are based on how many points you own.  I own 300K UDI at Bonnet Creek and pay $1362.  So in my case my converted week costs less per point ~$3/K versus by UDI which is $4.54/K.  Note those costs do not include Program dues.

The description should tell you if it is UDI or if it is converted week.  If it doesn't ask.



tango said:


> So, if I understand right, owning a fixed week in the Wyndham system is a disadvantage, because if one wanted to trade that week, one could only trade in whole week blocks in the RCI system.  One week at home resort for another whole week at a comparable resort, or less.  One could not split weeks.  And points offer the flexibility of using part of the points for what ever block of time at another resort based on it's point value.



Owning a fixed week is only a disadvantage is you are NOT planning on using it, but are trying to trade it via RCI.  Owning a fixed week that you want to use is good, because you have just eliminated the RCI fees as part of the transaction costs.

Points offer flexibility, Studio for 2 nights, 4 BR for 5 nights, you get to pick what you spend your money (Points) on.



w.bob said:


> I just found a lot of info in the Fairshare Plus members directory. It gives a lot of information directly related to several of the questions I asked. Wish I found it first.



That is why I added the link for you.  Reading their terms is helpful



bnoble said:


> Again, some but not all.  There are still some prime unconverted weeks out there.
> 
> Blue/White fixed weeks are often poor values whether converted or not.  If they are unconverted, they don't trade well at all in the fixed-week exchanges.  If they are converted, they often have fee ratios that are too high.
> 
> That said, my points deed is a converted week---technically red, but really the very palest shade of pink.  It's much more valuable converted than it would be as a fixed week in trade.  The bottom line for me is still: if I had only one ownership, it would be a mini-system in points.



In order for converted fixed weeks to make sense they need to be prime FSP time (red time in RCI) to be worthwhile.  But make fixed weeks problematic is that 2 BR regardless of season pay the same MFs.  Now lower demand week, yield lower points award, but at the same price. So your cost per point increased dramatically.


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## ecwinch (Dec 30, 2008)

timeos2 said:


> They only trade in weeks with RCI and the internal FAX system in Wyndham.



Oddly enough - Riverside Suites in San Antonio trades with II. Not a great trader due to the limited kitchen - but still pulls a bonus week.


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## Sandy VDH (Dec 30, 2008)

ecwinch said:


> Oddly enough - Riverside Suites in San Antonio trades with II. Not a great trader due to the limited kitchen - but still pulls a bonus week.



There are a handfull of Wyndhams that trade with II; Star Island (Orlando), Royal Vista(Ft Lauderdale), Governors Green (Williamsburg) and the above mentioned Riverside Suites.  They are the exception not the norm.


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