# Planning to purchase Marriott and had a few clarifying questions



## sdp1969 (Aug 28, 2016)

I am looking to purchase into the Marriott TS system. I have read extensively through the TUG message board to educate myself on the complexities of a Marriott TS purchase. It seems that there are only 4 ways to participate.  Obviously I am going resale. I am trying to define which pathway is best for me. Toward that end, I have listed the four options below followed by a few clarifying questions. 


1. Buy points resale and rent the remaining points I need.

	- Found 2k points for 5.5K and 990 dues. Is that good?

	- With the hybrid purchase program, if I buy a Marriott TS week and then buy points later, I can convert 			the week to points, however if I buy points first and buy property later…can I still convert the 			property into points?

	-I have found a website selling rental points for 50 cents/point.  Is this competitive?




2. Buy a resale week and bank with II (Interval International) to gain power points that trade internally with II.  

	-I was told by II that all Marriott has very good trading power. Marriott TS seem to come in a wide range of price. Will paying much more for the Marriott property get me THAT much more in II 			power?

	-  If so, at what price range / season/ bedrooms do I see diminishing returns with the II power points?




3. Buy a resale week and stay at only that resort in the season I bought.
	-Not a good answer. 




4. Buy a resale week and in the future buy a small number of points through Marriott which will enable the week to convert to points. (Hybrid purchase)

	-Before buying the week, how can I discover how many points it will produce when I convert it? I don’t want to buy too little and at 7 dollars a point, I don’t want to buy too much. 

	-I understand that the min points purchase through Marriott is 1500?

	-I understand that the lowest I can expect to pay with a hybrid purchase is 7 dollars per point which is much less than I would pay just buying points directly through Marriott. Correct?



Thanks for your help,

Steven


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## Gemini Chica (Aug 28, 2016)

I am not experienced enough to answer any of your questions I'm afraid. I have just bought (not completed yet) a resale week in Marbella Beach Resort in Spain. It's a fabulous resort if we want to use our home week but I bought it primarily to exchange and picked it as the most sought after of the 4 European MVC. I went for a gold week as it seems silver is really want II sell off as get aways, so I think for exchange purposes they are not high trade value. I'm sure you will get good answers to your questions and good luck with your decision! 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## CORK2 (Aug 28, 2016)

Gemini Chica said:


> I am not experienced enough to answer any of your questions I'm afraid. I have just bought (not completed yet) a resale week in Marbella Beach Resort in Spain. It's a fabulous resort if we want to use our home week but I bought it primarily to exchange and picked it as the most sought after of the 4 European MVC. I went for a gold week as it seems silver is really want II sell off as get aways, so I think for exchange purposes they are not high trade value. I'm sure you will get good answers to your questions and good luck with your decision!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



You bought into the best TS in Europe so enjoy . !   Unlikely you will be able to trade in a better one  unless you look to Asia or USA . Would be interested to 
hear the views of other Tuggers 
Regards
Garry


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## Gemini Chica (Aug 28, 2016)

CORK2 said:


> You bought into the best TS in Europe so enjoy . !   Unlikely you will be able to trade in a better one  unless you look to Asia or USA . Would be interested to
> 
> hear the views of other Tuggers
> 
> ...





I want to trade for USA and see more places! 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Thunder Up (Aug 28, 2016)

*Planning to purchase Marriott*

Hi Steven

We are pretty new to the timeshare world.  So I cannot answer all your questions, I will leave it to all the experts.  I am lifetime platinum with Marriott, so I felt comfortable with the Marriott timeshares.

Some of the answers to your question really depends on your situation and what you want to want to accomplish.  I can tell you what we did after reading tug for about 6 months as most of my questions were answered.  Than you tug gears.

We bought a two bedroom in Maui (resale).  We plan to lock off and go to Hawaii for two weeks each year.  

We also bought a two bedroom (lockoff) annual at the Grand Chateau for under $1600 to use as a trader.  So far we have traded into other Marriott's in Aruba (May 2016)and Newport Beach (Memorial day weekend 2017).  We see lots of availability in other Marriott's on interval that we should be able to use in the future. We are not limited to the school schedule, so we see more availability.  Your schedule may not be.

Lot of discussion about Marriott going to the points system and their availability being more limited, if so that's okay, as I have a limited investment on the Grand Chateau.


Good luck.

Thunder Up


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## kds4 (Aug 28, 2016)

sdp1969 said:


> I am looking to purchase into the Marriott TS system. I have read extensively through the TUG message board to educate myself on the complexities of a Marriott TS purchase. It seems that there are only 4 ways to participate.  Obviously I am going resale. I am trying to define which pathway is best for me. Toward that end, I have listed the four options below followed by a few clarifying questions.
> 
> 
> 1. Buy points resale and rent the remaining points I need.
> ...



See my responses above. Hope you can make some sense of it. Good luck.


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## JIMinNC (Aug 28, 2016)

sdp1969 said:


> I am looking to purchase into the Marriott TS system. I have read extensively through the TUG message board to educate myself on the complexities of a Marriott TS purchase. It seems that there are only 4 ways to participate.  Obviously I am going resale. I am trying to define which pathway is best for me. Toward that end, I have listed the four options below followed by a few clarifying questions.
> 
> 
> 1. Buy points resale and rent the remaining points I need.
> ...



$5500 is a great price, but based on what has been posted on TUG regarding ROFR, I doubt it will pass ROFR. Marriott will likely exercise their right and take the purchase.



> - With the hybrid purchase program, if I buy a Marriott TS week and then buy points later, I can convert 			the week to points, however if I buy points first and buy property later…can I still convert the 			property into points?



No. If you buy points first, you cannot use those points to enroll a week purchased later.

Also, the hybrid purchase program has some specific limitations:

1) The traditional hybrid purchase program requires that the resale week be purchased from Marriott's internal resales department only. Then you must buy a matching amount of points from Marriott equal to the value of that week at the same time or *within one year* after your points purchase. Recently reports have been received that the matching points requirement is being relaxed for weeks worth over 3000 points. Some have reported that weeks worth more than 3000 points can be enrolled with only a 3000 point purchase.

2) Last fall (2015) and this summer (2016) Marriott offered a variation on the hybrid purchase as a special promotion where people who owned any normally unenrollable external resale week (not just those purchased from Marriott Resales) could enroll that week with a purchase of 3000 points from Marriott, as long as the week was owned prior to a specific cut-off date. That cutoff date was generally right before the start of the promotion. These promotions were limited time and the current promotion expires in a couple weeks. No idea whether this is going to be a regular promotion offered every year or not, so no idea when it may be offered again. I should also mention that more than one week could be enrolled with larger point purchases.



> -I have found a website selling rental points for 50 cents/point.  Is this competitive?



Yes. As others have said, that is the going rate



> 2. Buy a resale week and bank with II (Interval International) to gain power points that trade internally with II.
> 
> -I was told by II that all Marriott has very good trading power. Marriott TS seem to come in a wide range of price. Will paying much more for the Marriott property get me THAT much more in II 			power?
> 
> ...



The previous posts answer these questions



> 4. Buy a resale week and in the future buy a small number of points through Marriott which will enable the week to convert to points. (Hybrid purchase)



Based on the promotions Marriott has offered, to enroll a previously purchased external resale week by buying a "small number of points" probably means at least 3000 points - which will cost you over $30,000. And even being able to do this depends upon whether Marriott offers the current promotion again in the future. There is no guarantee they will. 



> -Before buying the week, how can I discover how many points it will produce when I convert it? I don’t want to buy too little and at 7 dollars a point, I don’t want to buy too much.



This link should give you the points values of most weeks in the MVC system:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1JoUQZJVjFSiBNl5Kt0hLXExY14OtmPrVwbG9RilMpVI/edit#gid=2136233434



> -I understand that the min points purchase through Marriott is 1500?



Yes, but remember, just buying a minimum amount of points will not give you the ability to enroll any weeks. You must buy whatever the minimum Marriott may require at any time to enroll a week or weeks. Currently that is 3000 points, but that deal expires in September sometime.



> -I understand that the lowest I can expect to pay with a hybrid purchase is 7 dollars per point which is much less than I would pay just buying points directly through Marriott. Correct?



You will likely pay $10-$13 for all points sold by Marriott, whether they are bought as part of a hybrid bundle or stand-alone, points-only. Only points bought from Marriott qualify for any hybrid bundles. But when you add in the points value of a week that is also bought as part of that hybrid bundle, the net blended cost of all the points you have access to (from the directly-purchased points and the value of the week) is usually between $6.90 and about $8.

For example - Buy a Gold Oceanside Barony Beach Club Resale week from Marriott Resales for $10,800 - that week converts to 3225 points. Then buy the 3000 points required to enroll the week (based on current promotions). Marriott will discount the $13+ per point list price to somewhere around $11 per point, so those points will cost $33,000. Your total cost will be $43,800, plus probably $1000 in closing costs for a total cost of $44,800. You would have access to 6225 points, so the net cost of those 6225 points would be $7.20/per point.




> Thanks for your help,
> 
> Steven


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## taterhed (Aug 29, 2016)

Steven:

Did the above posts answer your questions?  If not, what questions do you now have?  Why did you abandon the HGVC purchase idea?

A few opinions after reading the above posts....​
Hawaii makes a lousy trader:  great trading power, but too expensive (purchase and MF's) to use as a trader.  Buy Hawaii only if you plan on regularly occupying your unit (or attempting to rent for profit--not something I reccomend).​
People say Orlando and Las Vegas are bad choices.... I think 3br platinum Orlando or Las Vegas make great and powerful traders, with lock-offs, for a reasonable purchase $$$ and MF.  Grande Chateau 3br (2br+1br) makes a great unit for power, lock-off and $$$.  IMHO  This might even be a smarter choice if you plan on visiting that resort--even occasionally.​
The 'theory' of II trading is size (0-3br) x  TDI (season + releative reservation TDI strength) determines the trading power.  This assumes that an exchange has plenty of life when deposited (6 mos+?).  So, a platinum 3br with a peak-tdi reservation deposited/searched with 12 mos+ to reservation date would be a very strong trader. This would be further enhanced by brand-preference (Marriott, SVN etc..).  This is all obviously conjecture, but there are numberous discussions here in the Marriott thread/stickies on trading power.​
Good luck...post any additional questions and consider reviewing the Marriott threads for legacy weeks and points to better understand the advice you've been given.  Basically, you need to decide how much $$$ purchase price and annual maintenance fees you want to spend.  Points purchases are big $$$$$, legacy is somewhat cheaper $$-$$$$.  Consider filling out the 'what to buy' questionaire at the link below;  this will help people advise you. 

http://tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=208742​


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## Quadmaniac (Aug 29, 2016)

Others have made good suggestions and I would only add the following : Why even buy points if you can rent as much as you want, whenever you want for the same price in terms of MF with no obligation ever ? What do you gain owning the point versus renting them ? 

You can never recover what you paid for the points unless you are able to sell it at a future date at an unknown price if you can sell them. Why lock in your money into purchasing when you get the exact same thing from someone else (many who are at Chairman level) and can book whatever you seek probably alot sooner than you could with a lower number of points ? You can have all the benefits without putting out any money other than the MF. If you decide to go a different route later, you can without having to sell anything or have an ongoing liability.

Please be aware, having points does not guarantee you will get what you are looking for as everyone is in the same pool and if it is highly desired, it may be all booked up or not available at all as the trust may have limited units in it. While points do give you more flexibility, you might want to look at the bottom line cost. If you absolutely want to go points, rent as much as you want when you need to and you'll be way further ahead vs buying even if resale points. 

Resale weeks are by far your best bang for your buck. I think if you buy any cheaper Marriott Platinum lock off week, you should be good for trading. I advise platinum as the price differential is minimal compared to gold, and long term platinum would be easier to get rid of than gold when it comes time to liquidate. I wouldn't get too worked up about better traders as it is more a function of how diligent you search than the "better trader" as all Marriotts give you Marriott priority. I've had some great success getting mostly everything I have been searching for, just because I search frequently. The investment to get into a cheap trader is quite reasonable and not a large cash outlay.

That's my 2 cents on it.


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## Marathoner (Aug 29, 2016)

We all like to stay at Marriotts because they are top rate and are in many good locations.  That said, do you know which Marriotts you want to stay most of the time, how frequently you want to vacation, and which weeks/seasons?  Do you have the energy and time to learn to use II effectively to exchange your weeks?

The answer to these questions may help you to determine points vs weeks.

For example, if you want to go on mostly week long vacations at Hilton Head then you will be best served by simply buying a week there.

In fact, my personal view is that buying a week will be more cost effective in most scenerios.  There are a number of exceptions but whether these exceptions are relevant to your situation depends on where you want to stay and when.


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## JIMinNC (Aug 29, 2016)

Quadmaniac said:


> Others have made good suggestions and I would only add the following : Why even buy points if you can rent as much as you want, whenever you want for the same price in terms of MF with no obligation ever ? What do you gain owning the point versus renting them ?
> 
> You can never recover what you paid for the points unless you are able to sell it at a future date at an unknown price if you can sell them. Why lock in your money into purchasing when you get the exact same thing from someone else (many who are at Chairman level) and can book whatever you seek probably alot sooner than you could with a lower number of points ? You can have all the benefits without putting out any money other than the MF. If you decide to go a different route later, you can without having to sell anything or have an ongoing liability.
> 
> Please be aware, having points does not guarantee you will get what you are looking for as everyone is in the same pool and if it is highly desired, it may be all booked up or not available at all as the trust may have limited units in it. While points do give you more flexibility, you might want to look at the bottom line cost. If you absolutely want to go points, rent as much as you want when you need to and you'll be way further ahead vs buying even if resale points.



While this is certainly a strategy that can be pursued, I think the OP needs to be aware that there is a significant downside to this approach. 

Point rentals work fine if you already own points or have enrolled weeks and thus have your own MVC Points account. But if you do not own ANY points, the only way to rent points is to have another owner - most often a complete stranger you only know via the internet - to make a reservation in their name on your behalf and then put you on the reservation as an additional guest. The real reservation is never in your name. You pay this stranger thousands of dollars and then have to trust that all is well all the way through check-in. You have minimal recourse against the person you are dealing with if something isn't on the up-and-up.

Now if you own at least a minimal amount of points (usually 1500), you can rent points and have the other person transfer those points into YOUR points account. Once that transaction is complete, those are YOUR points and you can book your own reservation in your own name. From that point on, the reservation is the same as any other reservation you might make with points you paid tens of thousands of dollars for. Of course, there is still an element of trust between you and the person you are renting from - you still don't really know that person - but you only have to trust them for as long as it takes to get the points transferred into your account - and that can be as short as a few minutes.

While some people are very comfortable renting weeks from individuals they only know over the internet, others of us are not. So I just wanted to make sure the OP was aware of the downside of renting points if they do not buy even a small point allocation. That way, they can make an informed decision based on their own individual risk tolerance.


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## sdp1969 (Aug 29, 2016)

*Buying Marriott weeks vs Points...help?*

Hi Taterhead,

	I was looking hot and heavy into Hilton as I really liked their Orlando resorts especially the Tuscany. However, as we began to embark upon a purchase, we noticed that outside of Florida and South Carolina, there is really little that Hilton has to offer on the east coat. We then noticed that Mariott had many more east coast options.  Navigating the intricacies of Marriot is much more muddy than the simplicity of Hilton however. Unlike Hilton, when I have a deeded week at a Marriott, I can only go to THAT Marriott in the season I bought and cannot trade that internally for another Marriott resort. To use my week to go to another Mariott, I have to bank it into II and try to bargin with them.  The other option with Mariott is to buy points but the price is much higher for an equivalent weeks destination.  For example, yesterday I found though a legitimate broker an Orlando Grand vista with 3 BR in the platinum week for 6K. To trade for that week would cost me about 4K points. At the same time 6K will only buy me 2K points which is NOT enough to get me into that Orlando Grand Vista..….BUT with the points I have the flexibility to go to any Mariott without using II.

	So now I am deciding weeks vs points.  You can really help me here. I see you own the Mariott Grand Vista I have been looking at.  How well does this TS and Marriott  trade on II?  Does banking what you own give you enough power points that you could take 2-3  1 week vacations into studios or one vacation in a 2 bedroom and another in a studio.  This is assuming that I book it 9-12 months ahead of course. With Hiltons points, I know based on their power charts exactly what my points will get me. Without knowing the power the Mariott week gives me in II, it is hard to make the decision on whether to buy weeks vs points. 

Thanks for your help everyone,

Steven


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## Fasttr (Aug 30, 2016)

sdp1969 said:


> The other option with Mariott is to buy points but the price is much higher for an equivalent weeks destination.  For example, yesterday I found though a legitimate broker an Orlando Grand vista with 3 BR in the platinum week for 6K. To trade for that week would cost me about 4K points. *At the same time 6K will only buy me 2K points *which is NOT enough to get me into that Orlando Grand Vista..….BUT with the points I have the flexibility to go to any Mariott without using II.  So now I am deciding weeks vs points.



About what's bolded.  I think you have an unrealistic view of what points will cost you... even on the resale market.  I know you said you found 2000 points for sale for $5.5K, but that is not likely to pass ROFR, and if it did sneak through ROFR, you would have to pay MVC $2 per point, or another $4K to open those points up for unfettered access in the DC.  I am a fan of both points and weeks, but just cautioning you on knowing what the points are truly going to cost you.  As others have mentioned, your all in cost to pass ROFR and pay the "junk fees" to MVC will likely put you much closer to $7 per point, or $14K using your 2000 point example.

All that said, if points are the way you decide to go, so long as the party listing the 2000 points for $5.5K is reputable and the amount of upfront earnest money required to be put at risk is small and you had the ability to get it back quickly if MVC ROFR's the deal, why not take a shot at it.  Best case, it slips through ROFR, you pay MVC another $2/point in junk fees and you net out at about $4.75 per point....still pricier than the week you mentioned, but not a bad deal as far as points are concerned.


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## kds4 (Aug 30, 2016)

sdp1969 said:


> Hi Taterhead,
> 
> I was looking hot and heavy into Hilton as I really liked their Orlando resorts especially the Tuscany. However, as we began to embark upon a purchase, we noticed that outside of Florida and South Carolina, there is really little that Hilton has to offer on the east coat. We then noticed that Mariott had many more east coast options.  Navigating the intricacies of Marriot is much more muddy than the simplicity of Hilton however. Unlike Hilton, when I have a deeded week at a Marriott, I can only go to THAT Marriott in the season I bought and cannot trade that internally for another Marriott resort. To use my week to go to another Mariott, I have to bank it into II and try to bargin with them.  The other option with Mariott is to buy points but the price is much higher for an equivalent weeks destination.  For example, yesterday I found though a legitimate broker an Orlando Grand vista with 3 BR in the platinum week for 6K. To trade for that week would cost me about 4K points. At the same time 6K will only buy me 2K points which is NOT enough to get me into that Orlando Grand Vista..….BUT with the points I have the flexibility to go to any Mariott without using II.
> 
> ...



I also own 3BR Platinum at Grande Vista. To keep the distinction between weeks and points clear, I have occasionally used this week with II by locking it off into a 2BR/Studio and made 2 deposits. Those 2 deposits can produce up to 4 'short stay' trips of 1-6 nights each (subject to II availability). I can also convert this week to 3,725 Marriott Destination Club Points and use them for that year or 'bank' them toward the next year. How many nights of accommodation I can turn that 3,725 into depends on when/where I want to go with rates ranging from 50 points (for a 2BR) to 2,300 points (for a 3BR) per night.   

The other thing to remember if you are considering a Marriott property in Florida is the 'Florida Club' which allows you to exchange your week's usage among several Florida Marriott Vacation Clubs for free. Grande Vista is a Florida Club property.


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## sdp1969 (Aug 30, 2016)

*Reply to kds4 and fasttr*

Thanks for the info kds4 and fasttr.

To kds4:
I did not realize that a 3BR is the same as a lockoff but it does make sense. So are you saying that through II, a 3BR appt deposit is less powerful then a 2BR appt and a studio deposited separately? Also, just to clarify, you are saying that with that deposit, you can get at least 2-3 weeklong studio trips? Of course assuming availability and calling 6-9months ahead of time. I spoke with II this morning and I thought I understood them saying that with II, you trade a week to get a week, even if the week you are trading in is worth much more than the week you are trading for. If this is true, then how are you getting 3-4 trips with your one week?

Concerning conversion to points, one cannot convert to points unless the TS is purchased directly from Marriott. As a resale purchase, that option would not be open to me unless i went to Marriott and purchased 4K points and then paid 7 dollars per point for 8K total points totaling 56K. I have seen this called a hybrid purchase. Correct?

Lastly, is the Florida club open to Marriott owners who buy on the reseller market?

To Fasttr
Thanks for the clarification. Did not realize there were sooo many additional fees. So I can buy a Orlando grand vista 3BR platinum for 6K which is worth 4K points and 2K points would cost 14K to purchase. Hmmmmm....let me think. 

Thank you all for your insight and input,

Steven


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## JIMinNC (Aug 30, 2016)

sdp1969 said:


> With Hiltons points, I know based on their power charts exactly what my points will get me. Without knowing the power the Mariott week gives me in II, it is hard to make the decision on whether to buy weeks vs points.



This is one of the things we dislike so much about traditional weeks-based trading. II trading is, by design, opaque and non-transparent. There is really no quantitative way to define "what my week is worth." There is no common currency in the weeks trading game. (And that's what I consider it to be - a game.) People try to define things somewhat with II's Travel Demand Index and other measures like unit size, etc., but the reality is only II knows how their system works and prioritizes requests. This is one main area where RCI's TPU system is far superior to II's system. 

We have a trade request in the II system right now for the fall of 2017, and based on everything I've read on TUG, I've been told the trade should have a high probability of matching sometime in the next few months. But the reality is, I have absolutely no idea when and if it will match. I'm sure there will be many deposits into II that match my request, but I have no idea how my "trade power" compares with the other folks requesting the same thing, so I have no idea where my request stands in the II pecking order. And I will never know that. That incredibly frustrating wait and uncertainty is what drives me nuts about weeks-based trading. Then, if the trade does match, I will often have no control at all on unit assignment as a trader. 

With points, everything is defined in a quantified currency - basically how many points does it take to book what I want? I can even define the view category I want. So before I even start trying to book something, I know whether I have enough currency or not. Now there's still the issue of supply - if the nights I want aren't available, I can't book them - but at least I can go online and see that availability in real time. If I want to play the waiting game, I can put in a waitlist request, but I know if they work their way down to my spot on the list, I'll get he booking. 

The transparency of points does come at a higher price, but we still save money when compared to traditional cash bookings (or we get bigger and better units for the same amount of cash). Having said that, the higher cost of points will likely cause us to choose to avoid going "all-in" by buying enough points to reach the higher ownership tiers that, in a perfect world, we would love to reach. But having a small position in points with the potential to rent more if we need to, plus owning a relatively inexpensive enrolled week that we can either use, convert to more points, or even trade, strikes a good balance right now.

These shortcomings of weeks trading are why our focus is, and probably will continue to be, primarily on using points for most of our travel plans. Because weeks-based trading does offer the ability, in some situations, to squeeze more value from our ownership (sometimes significantly more), we will use the weeks system with our one owned week from time-to-time as the circumstances allow (as we are doing for the above-mentioned fall 2017 trip). I just can't imagine playing the weeks trading game all the time. I think it would drive me crazy.


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## tschwa2 (Aug 30, 2016)

My question to those thinking of buying Marriott weeks or points is how specifically do you plan on using it on a typical year.  What do you expect to be able to reserve for yourself? 

Do you primarily need 2 br units?  Is view important to you?  Are there only certain weeks or times of the year you can travel. Are you looking to travel to different resorts every year or do you have your eye primarily on one area for trips at least 1 out of 2/3 years and the rest exploring?  If so, what is that area- Florida non Orlando, Orlando, SC Coast, Ski, Hawaii, Caribbean, Desert, California Coast.

And some of the questions are just timeshare in general questions.  Are you able to trips at least 12 months in advance?  Do you like to take trips for a full week or do you prefer shorter trips.


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## JIMinNC (Aug 30, 2016)

sdp1969 said:


> Thanks for the info kds4 and fasttr.
> 
> To kds4:
> I did not realize that a 3BR is the same as a lockoff but it does make sense. So are you saying that through II, a 3BR appt deposit is less powerful then a 2BR appt and a studio deposited separately? Also, just to clarify, you are saying that with that deposit, you can get at least 2-3 weeklong studio trips? Of course assuming availability and calling 6-9months ahead of time.



Since I saw this while online, I'll take a stab at your questions to kds4 and Fasttr.

There are 2BR lockoff units and 3BR lockoff units. There are also 2BR units and 3BR units that DO NOT lockoff. It's the lockoff units that give you the most flexibility because you can split one unit into two smaller units and thus make two deposits for trades. For example, if you own a 3BR lockoff, but you don't lockoff the unit and just deposit the entire unit with II, then you will only get one trade - you deposit a 3BR into II and can trade that deposit for one week in a 3BR unit or smaller. But, if you lockoff that unit into two separate units, you can then make two deposits and get two trades in return. I think sometimes II gives you extra bonus weeks for certain deposits, so that may be a way to stretch your deposit and get more than 2 trades for depositing the two halves of a lockout unit. Others can comment on this in more detail.

I'll also say that in Marriott's system, planning 6-9 months out is probably inadequate. For higher demand areas/seasons, you should plan to book 12 months out. In Hilton's system, their booking window to book outside your home resort season doesn't open until 9 months out, but in Marriott you need to plan a year out unless it is offseason or other areas with less competition for prime spots.




sdp1969 said:


> Concerning conversion to points, one cannot convert to points unless the TS is purchased directly from Marriott. As a resale purchase, that option would not be open to me unless i went to Marriott and purchased 4K points and then paid 7 dollars per point for 8K total points totaling 56K. I have seen this called a hybrid purchase. Correct?



Look at the numbers I showed near the bottom of post #7 for how a hybrid package works. You never pay Marriott $7 for points. Their points are $13 or so, but are discounted to the $11 range if the amount bought is large enough. The $7 figure comes from blending the $11-$13 cost paid to Marriott for the points with the cost of the week you buy. So lets say you buy a 3BR Grand Vista week that costs you $12,600 from Marriott Resales, and that week is worth 4000 points if enrolled in the points system. To enroll that week, you also must buy 3000 points from Marriott for about $33,000. So your total cost is about $46,000. For that $46K expenditure, you would now own a deeded week worth 4000 points, PLUS 3000 additional standalone points not associated with the week. The net, BLENDED cost is a little below $7/point, but what you really paid was $10K for a 3BR GV week (that can be used as a week or it can be swapped for points in any given year at your choice) plus $11/point for the 3000 standalone points.




sdp1969 said:


> To Fasttr
> Thanks for the clarification. Did not realize there were sooo many additional fees. So I can buy a Orlando grand vista 3BR platinum for 6K which is worth 4K points and 2K points would cost 14K to purchase. Hmmmmm....let me think.
> 
> Thank you all for your insight and input,
> ...



But what you have to realize is that Grande Vista 3BR Platinum that you buy for $6000 (presumably from a third-party reseller, since Marriott charges $12,600 for that same resale week) is only THEORETICALLY worth 4000 points. It CANNOT be enrolled for any points and will be restricted to the weeks-based trading system unless you buy at least 3000 points from Marriott at a cost of about $11/point ($33,000). PLUS, you will only be allowed to do that if and when Marriott repeats their off-and-on promotion that allows third-party resale weeks to be enrolled in points if you buy at least 3000 points at their market price. Without that promotion, AND the purchase of $33,000 worth of points, that $6000 Grande Vista week is ineligible to participate in the points system.


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## taterhed (Aug 30, 2016)

So, sdp1969, I say this in all kindness and in a constructive way:

 Reading your posts, I don't think you really have a firm concept of owning a Marriott timeshare.  Having said this, I would strongly suggest you continue to read the materials in the two links below.  Buying without understanding will lead to less than happy results--IMHO.

FAQ - MVC DESTINATIONS Points Program 
http://tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=197346 

FAQ - Marriott Vacation Club Weeks System 
http://tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=391

 Consider filling out this survey (follow the instructions on the posts) and indicate that you've reviewed HGVC and Marriott and are very interested in Marriott.  Answer the questions as truthfully as possible, and people will give you lots of valuable advice and help to address any misconceptions you might have:

*"What to Buy" Questions for Newbies*  (even if you're not so new...)
http://tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=208742


 As to the discussions above, I think you need to decide how much money you want to spend.  


A points purchase for what you describe STARTS at about $12,000 (minimum 1500 points and then RENTING the points you need for $0.50 per point) and go up from there.  The MF's on 1500 points is about $1000 per year plus the rental for any points above. 
A legacy week purchase (3br MGV/MGR plat annual) will run you about one-half of that (maybe $6-8,000?) and has annual MF's of almost $1500--plus Interval exchange fees as well.
 This is a huge difference in cash--double the money basically--and two very different systems.  (all my opinions)


MVC points are flexible, easier to use and 'expandable' via rental.  They are also expensive and offer fewer opportunities for bargains.  Peak weeks/locations can be reserved. 
MVC legacy weeks are less expensive, less flexible and require a good deal of attention and planning to use effectively.  Peak weeks/locations can be difficult to reserve (if not home resort).  Traveling in shoulder season or visiting resorts where there is less demand will improve your results.  Bargains--flex trade, upgrades, locking-off units for 2 for 1 etc.. are easily available.  Accommodation certificates can be used to further extend.
 Good luck and consider doing the 'what to buy' above.


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## kds4 (Aug 30, 2016)

JIMinNC said:


> Since I saw this while online, I'll take a stab at your questions to kds4 and Fasttr.
> 
> There are 2BR lockoff units and 3BR lockoff units. There are also 2BR units and 3BR units that DO NOT lockoff. It's the lockoff units that give you the most flexibility because you can split one unit into two smaller units and thus make two deposits for trades. For example, if you own a 3BR lockoff, but you don't lockoff the unit and just deposit the entire unit with II, then you will only get one trade - you deposit a 3BR into II and can trade that deposit for one week in a 3BR unit or smaller. But, if you lockoff that unit into two separate units, you can then make two deposits and get two trades in return. I think sometimes II gives you extra bonus weeks for certain deposits, so that may be a way to stretch your deposit and get more than 2 trades for depositing the two halves of a lockout unit. Others can comment on this in more detail.
> 
> ...



I couldn't have explained it any better. To the OP, the basic premise of II is 'like for like', but that is only the starting point. You can do/get more than just 'like for like' once you learn their system. II offers what are called 'short stay' exchanges of from 1 to 6 nights. You can get 2 of these 'short stay' exchanges out of each deposit. This is where the power of a 3BR lock-off really shines. You lock off, make 2 deposits, make 2 'short stay' exchanges for each deposit of up to 6 nights each and (if the stars align) you can literally get up to 24 nights (as 4 trips of 6 nights each) via II out of a single 7 night week owned (and you are not necessarily limited to the size you deposit if there are larger units available). Of course, the success of this lies in there being available inventory where and when you want to travel. YMMV.


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## Quadmaniac (Aug 30, 2016)

JIMinNC said:


> While this is certainly a strategy that can be pursued, I think the OP needs to be aware that there is a significant downside to this approach.
> 
> Point rentals work fine if you already own points or have enrolled weeks and thus have your own MVC Points account. But if you do not own ANY points, the only way to rent points is to have another owner - most often a complete stranger you only know via the internet - to make a reservation in their name on your behalf and then put you on the reservation as an additional guest. The real reservation is never in your name. You pay this stranger thousands of dollars and then have to trust that all is well all the way through check-in. You have minimal recourse against the person you are dealing with if something isn't on the up-and-up.
> 
> ...



I really don't think the risk is any different from someone putting points in your account and them booking it for you. People rent weeks all the time from timeshare owners, while there always can be a problem, if you do the proper checking, which you need to do with whomever you do business with, you should be fine. 

I rent out my weeks all the time and people send me a wire transfer. I give them my number and have them google me so they see I am real. 

Having your own account with 1500 points does not prevent you from being scammed if someone is really looking to cheat you. Where there is will, there is a way.


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## davidvel (Aug 30, 2016)

JIMinNC said:


> I'll also say that in Marriott's system, planning 6-9 months out is probably inadequate. For higher demand areas/seasons, you should plan to book 12 months out. In Hilton's system, their booking window to book outside your home resort season doesn't open until 9 months out, but in Marriott you need to plan a year out unless it is offseason or other areas with less competition for prime spots.


And to add, this is true *using DC points, reserving an owned week, or trading through II*. The high demand (school vacation, summer, ski) weeks all go within days/hours of being available. 

I agree with taterhed that based upon the OP's questions, s/he should do a lot more research before spending thousands on a timeshare purchase, if at all.


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## JIMinNC (Aug 30, 2016)

Quadmaniac said:


> I really don't think the risk is any different from someone putting points in your account and them booking it for you. People rent weeks all the time from timeshare owners, while there always can be a problem, if you do the proper checking, which you need to do with whomever you do business with, you should be fine.
> 
> I rent out my weeks all the time and people send me a wire transfer. I give them my number and have them google me so they see I am real.
> 
> Having your own account with 1500 points does not prevent you from being scammed if someone is really looking to cheat you. Where there is will, there is a way.



I think relying on someone to book a reservation is a greater risk because of the lead time involved. In that situation, I would not control the reservation myself. So what's to stop an unscrupulous person from renting the week to me, putting my name on the reservation, and then quietly a month or so later, renting the week to someone else and swapping the names of the additional renter. Also, with a rental of this kind, you may not know until you check-in that there is a problem. I would have no recourse at all. Because the length of time you have to trust that individual is longer, the risk is inherently greater. Also, if my plans change for something out of my control, I'm probably stuck with a reservation I can't use.

With a simple points transfer to an existing points account, once those points are transferred, they are mine. Yes, I have to trust that person for a few minutes after I remit payment until the transaction is complete, but once that's done the points are mine. True, the risk is not zero, but it provides me a great deal of peace of mind knowing that once I make that reservation, I am the only one who can change or cancel it. And if I have to cancel the booking I make with those rented points, Marriott returns the points to my account just like points I "own" and I can book something else. I had that exact situation this year.

So that's why, to me, points rental into an existing points account is much less risky than renting weeks or renting points without a points account. It's an issue of control, I guess. I don't like someone else controlling my reservations. It's also a question of how much risk - and for how long - am I willing to expose myself to.


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## Fasttr (Aug 30, 2016)

Quadmaniac said:


> I really don't think the risk is any different from someone putting points in your account and them booking it for you. People rent weeks all the time from timeshare owners, while there always can be a problem, if you do the proper checking, which you need to do with whomever you do business with, you should be fine.
> 
> I rent out my weeks all the time and people send me a wire transfer. I give them my number and have them google me so they see I am real.
> 
> Having your own account with 1500 points does not prevent you from being scammed if someone is really looking to cheat you. Where there is will, there is a way.



I agree with JIMinNC that there is a big difference.  For points rental, if you get screwed, you know it right away (as there can be as little as minutes and worst case a day between when you pay and when the points are in your account) and once the points are in your account, you have ZERO risk.  And that points rental transaction can be a year or so out from your desired vacation dates.  So if you did get screwed, even though you are out some $$$, perhaps you can still salvage a nice vacation using other means, and usually the points you rented were only to top off what you needed to nab your reservation, so in many cases, its not a loss in value of a full week.  

For a weeks rental, your risk is all the way until check in....and it is possible that not only are you out the cash, but after flying your family to your destination and getting to check in only to find out you got scammed, you are sitting there not only out the rental funds, but now you need to scramble and try to salvage that vacation while you are on it.  

Additionally, if you are renting for a full week dream vacation to Maui or something that is very expensive....for a week rental, your risk is "all-in" on that one rental transaction.  With points rental, you could break up your rental transactions into smaller chunks, thus limiting your risk each time into "manageable" risk chunks.  You could even rent all the points from the same person, but ask to do it in 4 smaller transactions as an example.  Lots of ways to limit the risk in the points rental game.  

As you said, if you do your homework, the odds are slim, but there are still odds and I would rather know about it a year before check in than when I was standing at the front desk on check in day.

ETA]  Jim beat me to it...but our thoughts on the topic are very similar.


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## Marathoner (Aug 30, 2016)

Marathoner said:


> We all like to stay at Marriotts because they are top rate and are in many good locations.  That said, do you know which Marriotts you want to stay most of the time, how frequently you want to vacation, and which weeks/seasons?  Do you have the energy and time to learn to use II effectively to exchange your weeks?



To the OP, 

If you answer these questions, we can all help you to answer your questions in a more informed way. 

I would disagree with some of the comments above. 

Owning a week and exchanging via II provides some of the best value for money in the timeshare world so it is worth serious consideration if you have the time and desire to understand the system. 

Renting provides great flexibility at a price point not much above maintenance fees much of the time. The risk of fraud does exist but my view is that it is relatively small if you learn how to mitigate your risks. Many on this forum have rented dozens or hundreds of times without a problem. 

Because the buy in is relatively low with the above options, I would jump in if you feel that timeshares are for you (eg you can plan a year ahead and buying is not a financial burden). I  have learnt so much more after buying weeks because nothing is a better teacher than necessity and being forced to make decisions. 

I agree with others who say that you are not familiar with weeks vs points. Due to the cost of points, I too would recommend that you learn more about the system if you are inclined to go this route. I would also say that it is my experience that points have been less useful for me than weeks and II so be aware that it is no panacea and you may find it not as flexible as you desire due to the lack of dates that interest you when you want to book. 

Sent from my LG-H811 using Tapatalk


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## davidvel (Sep 1, 2016)

*Value of DC points (for JiminNC)*

So, since I almost universally rail on the cost and value of DC points, *this one is for JiminNC* who always shows creative (high value) use. 

A family member wanted a studio at Marriott Grand Chateau next month. The rate for the dates was $250/night ($200/night with 7VC), including taxes and fees, so $400/$500.  

I reserved the nights with some leftover DC points for a total of about $175.


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## JIMinNC (Sep 1, 2016)

davidvel said:


> So, since I almost universally rail on the cost and value of DC points, *this one is for JiminNC* who always shows creative (high value) use.
> 
> A family member wanted a studio at Marriott Grand Chateau next month. The rate for the dates was $250/night ($200/night with 7VC), including taxes and fees, so $400/$500.
> 
> I reserved the nights with some leftover DC points for a total of about $175.



That's a great deal! 

By coincidence I just happened to snag a similarly good deal last night. I had 850 leftover 2017 points, and stumbled onto four nights at Harbour Point in Hilton Head for next June 21-25 (Wed night - Sat night), for exactly 850 points - a points "cost" of about $430. Those same four nights on Marriott.com are $1492 with taxes/fees. The 7VC rate wasn't available for those dates at Harbour Point/Sunset Pointe.

If I had a few more points, I could have booked an entire week on the island because Harbour Club was available Sun - Wed of that same week for about 675 more points. I thought about renting the 675, but decided four nights in the HHI summer heat would be enough.


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## elleny76 (Sep 1, 2016)

Great info..thanks





kds4 said:


> I also own 3BR Platinum at Grande Vista. To keep the distinction between weeks and points clear, I have occasionally used this week with II by locking it off into a 2BR/Studio and made 2 deposits. Those 2 deposits can produce up to 4 'short stay' trips of 1-6 nights each (subject to II availability). I can also convert this week to 3,725 Marriott Destination Club Points and use them for that year or 'bank' them toward the next year. How many nights of accommodation I can turn that 3,725 into depends on when/where I want to go with rates ranging from 50 points (for a 2BR) to 2,300 points (for a 3BR) per night.
> 
> The other thing to remember if you are considering a Marriott property in Florida is the 'Florida Club' which allows you to exchange your week's usage among several Florida Marriott Vacation Clubs for free. Grande Vista is a Florida Club property.


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## kds4 (Sep 1, 2016)

davidvel said:


> So, since I almost universally rail on the cost and value of DC points, *this one is for JiminNC* who always shows creative (high value) use.
> 
> A family member wanted a studio at Marriott Grand Chateau next month. The rate for the dates was $250/night ($200/night with 7VC), including taxes and fees, so $400/$500.
> 
> I reserved the nights with some leftover DC points for a total of about $175.



Well done.


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## kds4 (Sep 1, 2016)

JIMinNC said:


> That's a great deal!
> 
> By coincidence I just happened to snag a similarly good deal last night. I had 850 leftover 2017 points, and stumbled onto four nights at Harbour Point in Hilton Head for next June 21-25 (Wed night - Sat night), for exactly 850 points - a points "cost" of about $430. Those same four nights on Marriott.com are $1492 with taxes/fees. The 7VC rate wasn't available for those dates at Harbour Point/Sunset Pointe.
> 
> If I had a few more points, I could have booked an entire week on the island because Harbour Club was available Sun - Wed of that same week for about 675 more points. I thought about renting the 675, but decided four nights in the HHI summer heat would be enough.



That's a great find. Looking forward to 'empty-nesting' when I can do my own Marriott version of 'beachfront bargain hunting'.


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## JIMinNC (Sep 1, 2016)

kds4 said:


> That's a great find. Looking forward to 'empty-nesting' when I can do my own Marriott version of 'beachfront bargain hunting'.



We're looking forward to that phase as well. T-minus one year and counting...our youngest is just starting her senior year in high school. This time next year she'll be in college. Our son is now a senior in college.


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## Dean (Sep 3, 2016)

I just wanted to touch on one aspect of your OP.  That of all Marriott having good trading power in II.  IMO that is not accurate and even when it is, good doesn't mean great or the same.  In general there are Marriott's to own and use and those to own and trade with not a lot of overlap.  But it does depend on how you'll use it, flexibility, unit size and the like.  The upgrade charges have altered this landscape a little but not necessarily for the bad.  I suspects the change will increase costs a little but also increase availability though we'll have to see for that issue.  

Ideally the best resort to own would be the one a person would use the most but also fairly inexpensive to buy, reasonable dues, lock off, and trade great in II as well as being very rentable.  Obviously the preferred resort to stay at is a variable issue but ignoring location and looking at the rest of those parameters, there's not one that I see as ideal.  Resorts like Grande Vista, Ocean Pointe, Shadow Ridge, Manor Club sequel and Dessert Springs come to mind as possibilities though I haven't followed their dues and trading power the last 2-3 years as much as I have in the past.  Historically I've steered people away from GV for trading but now that DVC is not in II, it may be one of the better choices because it's relatively inexpensive, has lockoff's, is easy to trade, has 3 BR and has dues that aren't too bad.  The 2 BR is usually the better value for such but if one needs a 3 BR and given the recent II fees, that might be changing.  

For mostly exchanging you want to avoid the more expensive and higher fee locations like HI and Aruba.  Though not lock off, a Gold Grande Ocean week can be a good option if one can have 2 weeks to reserve at one time so the chances of week 23 are better.  For me personally I have exchange weeks, use week and points weeks.  Grande Ocean to use and rent when I don't, Legend's Edge and Branson to exchange and Surfwatch for DC points.  Branson gives me some other benefits in that they are lockoff's and the week starts on Thursday.


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## catharsis (Sep 7, 2016)

Dean said:


> Though not lock off, a Gold Grande Ocean week can be a good option if one can have 2 weeks to reserve at one time so the chances of week 23 are better.


Just wanted to check something as I'm hoping I've misread your comments.

If seeking week 23 in HHI (for example) one must have 2 weeks ANYWHERE one of which can be booked week 22, 23 or 24 and the other of which must be on HHI and be able to book week 23.   Is that correct?  Never needed to do this before and was worried in case your post is suggesting one must have multiple weeks at same resort in order to book 13 months out.



Sent from my SM-N910F using Tapatalk


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## SueDonJ (Sep 7, 2016)

catharsis said:


> Just wanted to check something as I'm hoping I've misread your comments.
> 
> If seeking week 23 in HHI (for example) one must have 2 weeks ANYWHERE one of which can be booked week 22, 23 or 24 and the other of which must be on HHI and be able to book week 23.   Is that correct?  Never needed to do this before and was worried in case your post is suggesting one must have multiple weeks at same resort in order to book 13 months out.
> 
> ...



Yes, you're correct.  In order to use the 13-mos Reservation Window for Weeks, you must be booking consecutive/concurrent intervals from multiple owned Weeks.  It doesn't matter if the Weeks are at the same or different resorts or what the seasonal designations of the Weeks are - as long as you're using multiple Weeks and the intervals being booked fall consecutively or concurrently, you can use the 13-mos Window to check availability and book multiple intervals.

For example, I routinely try to book the last two May Gold Weeks at Barony and SurfWatch and combine those with the first Platinum Week at SurfWatch, to cover the three consecutive Weeks straddling the Memorial Day holiday.  Most years I don't have a problem but because it's high-demand and many other owners are trying to do the same thing, I don't always get the Saturday check-in day that I usually prefer and have to take Friday or Sunday instead.

Note multiple components from a single lock-off unit cannot be used at the 13-mos Window because they constitute a single Week ownership.  But a single component from a lock-off can be used at the 13-mos Window in combination with a lock-off component or full unit of another owned Week.

Note also that the check-in days of intervals booked using the 13-mos Window don't all have to fall on the same day of the week.  For example, a Friday check-in one week can be followed by a Sunday check-in the following week, which we've done to break up a multi-week stay at SurfWatch with a couple nights at a hotel in Savannah.

Another strategy used by multi-Weeks owners is to lead a consecutive string of multiple Weeks with a Week from one of the resorts that allows Thursday check-ins.  For example, a Grande Vista Thursday check-in can be followed by a Barony Friday check-in, again allowing for a hotel stay midway to allow for travel.  This strategy gives a one-day headstart on the Reservation Window over others who are working only with resorts that don't allow Thursday check-ins.

This link is to dioxide's compilation post of Resort Calendars which can be reviewed with an eye towards gaining the best advantage for expected usage.


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## Dean (Sep 7, 2016)

catharsis said:


> Just wanted to check something as I'm hoping I've misread your comments.
> 
> If seeking week 23 in HHI (for example) one must have 2 weeks ANYWHERE one of which can be booked week 22, 23 or 24 and the other of which must be on HHI and be able to book week 23.   Is that correct?  Never needed to do this before and was worried in case your post is suggesting one must have multiple weeks at same resort in order to book 13 months out.
> 
> ...


Susan explained it but I want to be sure I'm clear.  The week's must be bookable either concurrently or consecutively but do not need to be in the same area.  One could be in HI and one on HHI. One thing that I've seen people say before is that if booked this way they cannot be changed later without affecting all reservation but this has not been my experience.


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## Dean (Sep 8, 2016)

Let me add that my experience has not been the same as Susan's.  My understanding is the weeks are supposed to match up perfectly like all Sat or the like.  Think of it as if you were staying in the resort or resorts the whole time without any gaps or overlaps.  The other issue is whether fixed weeks will count toward the issue.  Early on they didn't but I know this has evolved.  I'll let others speak to how it is currently as I don't have any experience in that area.


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## Pamplemousse (Sep 8, 2016)

I own a Marriott week and recently enrolled it in the destination program and purchased additional points.

I am not experienced with the points yet (I've been on a wait list for a points trip for 4 months, still another 5 months to my desired travel date- hoping!) but I wanted to make a few comments regarding II for you to consider.  

- II has recently added a size upgrade fee.  This means that you should carefully consider what size unit you need to travel if you are considering purchasing a lock off.  Used to be if a manual search with your studio unit showed a 2br you could snag it, now it will cost you $200.
- enrollment in Marriotts destination club will save you most fees on II for Marriott exchanges (II dues, lock off fees, exchange fees) but don't cover the size upgrade fees.
- you mentioned your week turning into points on II.  Marriotts trade as weeks on II. Full weeks unless you do a short stay.
- someone mentioned short stays on II, and there are also accomidations certificates that II gives away for various reasons.  Be aware that the times and places you can go with these are very limited.  I personally have never been able to take advantage of these.
-realize that if you plan to trade on II you have to plan in advance (or be willing to travel last minute if what you want shows up).  If you want to travel at the holidays or school vacation you need to get in a request early (year or more)- and even then it's not guaranteed.

I would recommend that in addition to researching the ts purchase itself you also really research II and how it works and what your real expectations should be if you plan on exchanging there.

Good luck!


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## SueDonJ (Sep 8, 2016)

Dean said:


> Susan explained it but I want to be sure I'm clear.  The week's must be bookable either concurrently or consecutively but do not need to be in the same area.  One could be in HI and one on HHI. One thing that I've seen people say before is that if booked this way they cannot be changed later without affecting all reservation but this has not been my experience.



The idea that changes made to a reservation booked using the 13-mos Reservation Window would adversely affect all reservations made in conjunction with that one, came about because there is language in many of the Weeks governing docs to support it.  Then a few months after the DC was introduced they sent out extensive updates to the Weeks Reservation Procedures that appeared to support that language being enforced.  (We dissected those updates here.)  At the time many MVW reps began saying that we should wait to make changes to any 13-mos reservations until the 12-mos window opened, that doing so would protect us from the penalties, so that's what many of us did.  Over the years there haven't been any TUG reports of any of these penalties being enforced, regardless of whether we wait for the 12-mos window or not.  It seems to be a non-issue.



Dean said:


> Let me add that my experience has not been the same as Susan's.  My understanding is the weeks are supposed to match up perfectly like all Sat or the like.  Think of it as if you were staying in the resort or resorts the whole time without any gaps or overlaps.  The other issue is whether fixed weeks will count toward the issue.  Early on they didn't but I know this has evolved.  I'll let others speak to how it is currently as I don't have any experience in that area.



Dean, I don't know if there have been changes made over the years but being able to book consecutive/concurrent intervals with varying check-in days has definitely been allowed for at least the last five years because we've done it that far back (and maybe further but I can't swear to it.)  That's why I'm careful to use the word "intervals" rather than "Weeks" because of the implication that Weeks require the same check-in days.  To me "intervals" mean the 7-day periods starting with any of the check-in days that fall within the same number on the resort calendars.  (I hope that doesn't confuse the issue more than help it!) 

As for fixed Weeks I believe they can be used to facilitate concurrent/consecutive 13-mos reservations, although I vaguely remember something about limitations with the very few fixed week/fixed unit ownerships (the ones that are auto-reserved as much as 18 months in advance of check-in.)  Maybe owners of those can speak to this.


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## Dean (Sep 8, 2016)

SueDonJ said:


> The idea that changes made to a reservation booked using the 13-mos Reservation Window would adversely affect all reservations made in conjunction with that one, came about because there is language in many of the Weeks governing docs to support it.  Then a few months after the DC was introduced they sent out extensive updates to the Weeks Reservation Procedures that appeared to support that language being enforced.  (We dissected those updates here.)  At the time many MVW reps began saying that we should wait to make changes to any 13-mos reservations until the 12-mos window opened, that doing so would protect us from the penalties, so that's what many of us did.  Over the years there haven't been any TUG reports of any of these penalties being enforced, regardless of whether we wait for the 12-mos window or not.  It seems to be a non-issue.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


To make changes one simply has to wait until the 12 month time OR until the reservation can stand on it's own as a 13 mo reservation without the item being changed.  But early on there was discussion that any change would require canceling everything and starting over.  My experience has been different with different start days including in the last year or two.  Are you using the same advisor each time?  I know early on there was an issue related to fixed weeks but my sense is this has not been an issue of late, hopefully those who have done or tried it can speak to it.


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## m61376 (Sep 8, 2016)

I don't have personal experience with 13 month booking, but I also seem to remember some conversation stressing to make sure that each week has a distinct reservation number, which would enable you to easily change one week without risking losing a reservation when changes were being made.


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## bazzap (Sep 9, 2016)

m61376 said:


> I don't have personal experience with 13 month booking, but I also seem to remember some conversation stressing to make sure that each week has a distinct reservation number, which would enable you to easily change one week without risking losing a reservation when changes were being made.


I am not sure whether this might be something to tighten up on changes made to bookings in the 13 month window, but one of my recent such bookings which did have 2 separate reservation numbers subsequently had them combined under 1 reservation number.
I don't recall receiving an email advising of this and I was not intending to make any changes so it did not affect me, but I did wonder what might be behind this.


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## SueDonJ (Sep 9, 2016)

Dean said:


> To make changes one simply has to wait until the 12 month time OR until the reservation can stand on it's own as a 13 mo reservation without the item being changed.  But early on there was discussion that any change would require canceling everything and starting over.  My experience has been different with different start days including in the last year or two.  Are you using the same advisor each time?  I know early on there was an issue related to fixed weeks but my sense is this has not been an issue of late, hopefully those who have done or tried it can speak to it.



When I call for reservations (which has to be done at the 13-mos window because they can't be done instantly online) I speak to whoever picks up the line, don't have a preference for a specific rep.  It usually starts with me saying, quickly, that I want to book two consecutive Gold Weeks, one at Barony and one at SurfWatch, followed by a Plat SurfWatch, in whatever combination works.  If that means I can't get the same check-in day of the week for all three then I take whatever check-in days they have (and work around those with cash/MRP nights.)  None of the reps I've dealt with have given any indication that it can't be done or that they're not supposed to do it that way.  

As for cancelling later, prior to those revised docs I cancelled one or two of the three within that one-month period prior to the 12-mos window opening (again via phone calls and not online) without a second thought and no penalties.  After the revision I followed the reps' advice to wait for the 12-mos window before making changes.

Reading TUG all these years I know the others have had different experiences with phone reps - I'm not trying to say what's right or wrong but only what I've been allowed to do.

Reading about multi-consecutive reservations being combined into one confirmation number always surprises me because it has never happened with any of my consecutive-Week reservations, even when two consecutive Weeks are booked at SurfWatch.  Again, not to say it hasn't happened for others but in all these years reading TUG I don't have personal experience with it.  I don't ask the reps for individual confirmation numbers or to keep them separate, that's just the way it happens automatically.


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## kds4 (Sep 9, 2016)

_"Dean, I don't know if there have been changes made over the years but being able to book consecutive/concurrent intervals with varying check-in days has definitely been allowed for at least the last five years because we've done it that far back (and maybe further but I can't swear to it.)  That's why I'm careful to use the word "intervals" rather than "Weeks" because of the implication that Weeks require the same check-in days.  To me "intervals" mean the 7-day periods starting with any of the check-in days that fall within the same number on the resort calendars.  (I hope that doesn't confuse the issue more than help it!)_

This is interesting to me. So, are you saying that for a 13 month consecutive weeks reservation for say Weeks 17, 18, and 19, you could potentially book Week 17 with a Thursday check-in, Week 18 with a Friday check-in, and Week 19 with a Sunday check-in? In other words it's not that check-in/check-out days have to be consecutive only the 'weeks' on the resort's calendar (17, 18, and 19 in this example) and you can reserve any available check-in day for each of those weeks?


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## SueDonJ (Sep 9, 2016)

kds4 said:


> This is interesting to me. So, are you saying that for a 13 month consecutive weeks reservation for say Weeks 17, 18, and 19, you could potentially book Week 17 with a Thursday check-in, Week 18 with a Friday check-in, and Week 19 with a Sunday check-in? In other words it's not that check-in/check-out days have to be consecutive only the 'weeks' on the resort's calendar (17, 18, and 19 in this example) and you can reserve any available check-in day for each of those weeks?



Yep, that's it exactly.


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## kds4 (Sep 9, 2016)

SueDonJ said:


> Yep, that's it exactly.



Well, okay then. I'm done for the day. Bring on the week-end. I can only learn one new thing a day and it appears to have happened super early today.


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## catharsis (Sep 9, 2016)

SueDonJ said:


> Another strategy used by multi-Weeks owners is to lead a consecutive string of multiple Weeks with a Week from one of the resorts that allows Thursday check-ins.  For example, a Grande Vista Thursday check-in can be followed by a ...  {Snip}This strategy gives a one-day headstart on the Reservation Window over others ....



Thanks for the very detailed response.

Just to check... the calendar on the marriott site indicates specific dates upon which one can call if (for example) booking a resort which only allows stays starting Friday. 
Is what you are saying that MVCI will actually let you book that interval one day earlier than advertised if you were *at the same time* booking a Grande Vista Thursday check in for the same (concurrent) week?

I'm a little lost as to how 13mi advantage works for consecutive weeks also... I presume you are not being allowed to book 13mo+ 2,3 or even more weeks in advance by booking a 'chain' of intervals starting 13 months out a and extending beyond that ..  or are you?!

Sent from my SM-N910F using Tapatalk


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## Dean (Sep 9, 2016)

SueDonJ said:


> When I call for reservations (which has to be done at the 13-mos window because they can't be done instantly online) I speak to whoever picks up the line, don't have a preference for a specific rep.  It usually starts with me saying, quickly, that I want to book two consecutive Gold Weeks, one at Barony and one at SurfWatch, followed by a Plat SurfWatch, in whatever combination works.  If that means I can't get the same check-in day of the week for all three then I take whatever check-in days they have (and work around those with cash/MRP nights.)  None of the reps I've dealt with have given any indication that it can't be done or that they're not supposed to do it that way.
> 
> As for cancelling later, prior to those revised docs I cancelled one or two of the three within that one-month period prior to the 12-mos window opening (again via phone calls and not online) without a second thought and no penalties.  After the revision I followed the reps' advice to wait for the 12-mos window before making changes.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the info, that has certainly not been my experience.  I'll have to check on it more when I get a chance.  Technically speaking a different date is not consecutive or concurrent but I've been around enough to know there are the rules, the rules as enforced, that sometimes the reps don't know the rules as well as they should, that at times they may make up their own and that sometimes they even get activist about it.  The question is where your experience lies within this framework.  Again, thanks for the info and discussion.


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## bazzap (Sep 9, 2016)

catharsis said:


> Thanks for the very detailed response.
> 
> Just to check... the calendar on the marriott site indicates specific dates upon which one can call if (for example) booking a resort which only allows stays starting Friday.
> Is what you are saying that MVCI will actually let you book that interval one day earlier than advertised if you were *at the same time* booking a Grande Vista Thursday check in for the same (concurrent) week?
> ...


You can certainly book a chain of intervals consecutively with the first one starting 13 months out (and therefore the subsequent ones 13+ months out.
Many owners do this.


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## Xpat (Sep 9, 2016)

bazzap said:


> I am not sure whether this might be something to tighten up on changes made to bookings in the 13 month window, but one of my recent such bookings which did have 2 separate reservation numbers subsequently had them combined under 1 reservation number.
> 
> I don't recall receiving an email advising of this and I was not intending to make any changes so it did not affect me, but I did wonder what might be behind this.





This has happened to me as well. I believe it was the resort combining the consecutive reservations to ensure my stay was treated as one stay (with no unit changes)


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## taterhed (Sep 9, 2016)

catharsis said:


> Thanks for the very detailed response.
> 
> Just to check... the calendar on the marriott site indicates specific dates upon which one can call if (for example) booking a resort which only allows stays starting Friday.
> Is what you are saying that MVCI will actually let you book that interval one day earlier than advertised if you were *at the same time* booking a Grande Vista Thursday check in for the same (concurrent) week?
> ...


 
 A well stated paragraph stolen from sellingtimeshares.net (sethnoc)


> To use the my-vacationclub website, you must be booking within the 12-month reservation window or using Destination Club points. Owners that are trying to book during the 13-month window should call in, to make those reservations and will need to book multi-weeks that are consecutive or concurrent.
> Consecutive weeks don’t have to be the same day of a check-out to check in. If you want to book your trip from Friday to Friday, you can check into your next resort on that Saturday, if you desire. A note, 50% of inventory is released to multi-week owners 13 months prior and the other 50% is released one year prior to the Thursday before that check-in week. An example is that if you wanted to book for Friday April 20th, 2015, that week would be available Wednesday April 19th, 2014  (at 9am eastern?) because April 19th, 2015 is the Thursday prior your desired check-in.


 
 More if you really want to read it...
http://www.sellingtimeshares.net/marriotts-reservation-policy-12-month-and-13-month/ 


 If you own six weeks/lock-off components, you can book each week at 13 months prior as long as it is consecutive (or concurrent) to another owned 'week' (or lock-off--must be from different owned week).


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## catharsis (Sep 9, 2016)

bazzap said:


> You can certainly book a chain of intervals consecutively with the first one starting 13 months out (and therefore the subsequent ones 13+ months out.
> Many owners do this.


Is there any limit to how long the 'chain' can be? Could one even theoretically have a chain using weeks from 2 separate years?  (E.g. first week of chain is Christmas 2017 week 51 booked around Nov 2016, followed by 2017 week 52, followed by 2018 week 1, followed by 2018 week 2 and so on?)

Interesting piece of info ... will have to search for old threads!

Sent from my SM-N910F using Tapatalk


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## TheTimeTraveler (Sep 9, 2016)

catharsis said:


> Is there any limit to how long the 'chain' can be? Could one even theoretically have a chain using weeks from 2 separate years?  (E.g. first week of chain is Christmas 2017 week 51 booked around Nov 2016, followed by 2017 week 52, followed by 2018 week 1, followed by 2018 week 2 and so on?)
> 
> Interesting piece of info ... will have to search for old threads!
> 
> Sent from my SM-N910F using Tapatalk







"The 13 month Chain" actually refers to weeks to be used in a specific calendar year, and not two separate years.





.


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## SueDonJ (Sep 9, 2016)

catharsis said:


> Thanks for the very detailed response.
> 
> Just to check... the calendar on the marriott site indicates specific dates upon which one can call if (for example) booking a resort which only allows stays starting Friday.
> Is what you are saying that MVCI will actually let you book that interval one day earlier than advertised if you were *at the same time* booking a Grande Vista Thursday check in for the same (concurrent) week?
> ...





taterhed said:


> A well stated paragraph stolen from sellingtimeshares.net (sethnoc)
> 
> 
> More if you really want to read it...
> ...





catharsis said:


> Is there any limit to how long the 'chain' can be? Could one even theoretically have a chain using weeks from 2 separate years?  (E.g. first week of chain is Christmas 2017 week 51 booked around Nov 2016, followed by 2017 week 52, followed by 2018 week 1, followed by 2018 week 2 and so on?)
> 
> Interesting piece of info ... will have to search for old threads!
> 
> Sent from my SM-N910F using Tapatalk





TheTimeTraveler said:


> "The 13 month Chain" actually refers to weeks to be used in a specific calendar year, and not two separate years.
> 
> .



I'm going to try to respond by using specific examples, assuming ownership of a Grande Vista Platinum Week, a SurfWatch Bronze Week, and, a Newport Coast Gold Week.

Important to note:

- When using the 13-mos Reservation Window for Weeks, the Inventory Release/Call-In Day is 13 months in advance of the first available check-in day of the first interval you want to book.  It helps me tremendously to think of the Release Date as a date rather than a day of the week, and to use the tool on owners.marriottvacationclub.com to confirm the Release Date:

Sign in to your account
--> click on "Education & Owner Resources"
--> click on "Helpful Tools"
--> click on "When Can I Reserve? - Using My Week"
--> click on the name of the resort which you want to book first in the chain
--> input the desired check-in date on the "Inventory Release Calendar" page and the tool will return the release date.
(Good gravy, Marriott finally changed up the Helpful Tools page a bit, to lessen confusion between Weeks and Points release dates.  Great!  But it's confusing me right at this moment.  I'll spend some time tomorrow figuring out links for the FAQs that will make this process easier.)

- The ONLY limitations when using the 13-mos Reservation Window are that you must be using multiple owned Weeks to book available intervals that fall consecutively/concurrently in the calendar.  The Weeks do not have to be at the same resort or have the same seasonal designations.  There aren't any rules that say each consecutive/concurrent reservation needs to have the same check-in day of the week, or, that consecutive chains cannot cross from the end of one year into the next.  (Except in the years when a Week 53 interval falls between a Week 52 and a Week 1, which doesn't happen every year.  But when it does I think the Week 53 interval will prevent the chain from continuing into the next year.)
- There may be a limit to how many consecutive intervals can be booked in a chain but if there is, Marriott has never publicized it and I don't remember ever reading about it on TUG.

So let's say you want to book this chain:
Thursday, 12/29/16, Grande Vista Platinum
Friday, 1/6/17, SurfWatch Bronze
Sunday, 1/15/17, Newport Coast Villas Gold.

Using the tool, the Release Date for that GV 12/29/16 check-in is 11/30/15.  If all three of the intervals you want are available when you call, you'll be able to book them.

Believe it or not that's a simple exercise.    Keep it simple no matter what your variables are by making sure that the intervals you want fall consecutively and that you're using the tool to determine the correct Inventory Release Date for the first interval in your chain.  During all the calls I've made over the years to book multi-consecutive/concurrent reservations, the reps have all been knowledgeable and extremely helpful - they really have this under control.  

The thing about multi-reservations being assigned a single confirmation number is completely foreign to my experience but I have no doubt that it's happened for the TUGgers who mentioned it here.  I wonder if it's because the three weeks that I routinely book consecutively (SW Gold oceanvista, Barony Beach Gold oceanfront, SW Plat oceanside) aren't the same so there's no chance of us being able to stay in the same unit for the duration?

As usual, a million words for what someone else could probably say with twelve.  I hope it helps.


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## Dean (Sep 9, 2016)

SueDonJ said:


> I'm going to try to respond by using specific examples, assuming ownership of a Grande Vista Platinum Week, a SurfWatch Bronze Week, and, a Newport Coast Gold Week.
> 
> Important to note:
> 
> ...


I believe the other component is that the weeks have to be in the computer where they can book them so I suspect there's a limit as to how far out one can book though I've done 13 months plus 8 weeks several times without issue.


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## davidvel (Sep 9, 2016)

Sue is totally right, in practice. 

Legally, my opinion is that you'd have to book consecutive or concurrent in your own resort, but disregard this opinion the same way Marriott does...:ignore:


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## JIMinNC (Sep 9, 2016)

SueDonJ said:


> I'm going to try to respond by using specific examples, assuming ownership of a Grande Vista Platinum Week, a SurfWatch Bronze Week, and, a Newport Coast Gold Week.
> 
> Important to note:
> 
> ...



This is all somewhat irrelevant to me right now since I only own one week, but I've been reading with interest because I do want to understand this 13-month process a little better in the event we ever opt to buy another week (and perhaps to determine if there is any benefit in owning another week in order to take advantage of this ability).

I understand the benefits of the 13-month booking window for constructing a two or three week visit to a resort or resort area like HHI - or a two or three week visit to multiple resorts with a travel day/time between the reservations. I also understand the benefits of being able to book multiple concurrent reservations to accommodate a larger party on a one week vacation. But are there any other reasons/scenarios why an owner of multiple weeks (at the same resort or multiple resorts) would realize some other benefit from being able to book multiple weeks?

The reason I ask is, as long as I've been a member of the TUG Marriott Board, I've read everyone's comments about how much they like the 13-month weeks booking window. But the two scenarios above are the only situations that I've been able to see where the 13-month window helps, and neither seems to be something that we would need very often. So are there other ways the 13-month window can be used that I'm missing, or do TUGgers just take more multi-week trips and more trips with large groups than we do?


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## SueDonJ (Sep 10, 2016)

JIMinNC said:


> This is all somewhat irrelevant to me right now since I only own one week, but I've been reading with interest because I do want to understand this 13-month process a little better in the event we ever opt to buy another week (and perhaps to determine if there is any benefit in owning another week in order to take advantage of this ability).
> 
> I understand the benefits of the 13-month booking window for constructing a two or three week visit to a resort or resort area like HHI - or a two or three week visit to multiple resorts with a travel day/time between the reservations. I also understand the benefits of being able to book multiple concurrent reservations to accommodate a larger party on a one week vacation. But are there any other reasons/scenarios why an owner of multiple weeks (at the same resort or multiple resorts) would realize some other benefit from being able to book multiple weeks?
> 
> The reason I ask is, as long as I've been a member of the TUG Marriott Board, I've read everyone's comments about how much they like the 13-month weeks booking window. But the two scenarios above are the only situations that I've been able to see where the 13-month window helps, and neither seems to be something that we would need very often. So are there other ways the 13-month window can be used that I'm missing, or do TUGgers just take more multi-week trips and more trips with large groups than we do?



Owners who rent out high-demand intervals take advantage of the 13-mos window all the time.  Consider, for example, the tremendous number of rentals that happen every year in January at the Aruba resorts.  I've long assumed (yeah, yeah ) that the people who head up that event own a boatload of weeks, and, that they book a string of at least 10 consecutive weeks leading up to their event combined with 25+ concurrent weeks for the event itself.  That way they're booking what they need 15 or so months in advance.  (At least I hope that's how they do it because I'd be royally ticked off to learn that MVW actually helps them get what they want via a process that's not available to other owners.)

That's an extreme example but every week in advance of the highest-demand holiday periods gives an added advantage over owners who don't own enough Weeks to be booking anything other than the highest-demand interval alone.  In my experience trying to reserve the two weeks straddling Memorial Day at Hilton Head, I've met with success every time when booking the three Gold/Gold/Plat weeks, but not when I've tried using only the two Gold/Plat.  That extra third week definitely helps with my desired usage.


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## JIMinNC (Sep 10, 2016)

SueDonJ said:


> Owners who rent out high-demand intervals take advantage of the 13-mos window all the time.  Consider, for example, the tremendous number of rentals that happen every year in January at the Aruba resorts.  I've long assumed (yeah, yeah ) that the people who head up that event own a boatload of weeks, and, that they book a string of at least 10 consecutive weeks leading up to their event combined with 25+ concurrent weeks for the event itself.  That way they're booking what they need 15 or so months in advance.  (At least I hope that's how they do it because I'd be royally ticked off to learn that MVW actually helps them get what they want via a process that's not available to other owners.)
> 
> That's an extreme example but every week in advance of the highest-demand holiday periods gives an added advantage over owners who don't own enough Weeks to be booking anything other than the highest-demand interval alone.  In my experience trying to reserve the two weeks straddling Memorial Day at Hilton Head, I've met with success every time when booking the three Gold/Gold/Plat weeks, but not when I've tried using only the two Gold/Plat.  That extra third week definitely helps with my desired usage.



OK. Thanks. I see the benefit to someone who wants to rent their reserved units, even though that has no value to me.

So in the situations where you reserved your Gold/Gold/Plat weeks (three consecutive), was that to use all three for a three-week stay or just to increase your odds of getting your two desired consecutive weeks wrapped around Memorial Day? If it's the latter, what do you do with the third week that you don't plan to occupy? Rent? Trade?


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## SueDonJ (Sep 10, 2016)

JIMinNC said:


> OK. Thanks. I see the benefit to someone who wants to rent their reserved units, even though that has no value to me.
> 
> So in the situations where you reserved your Gold/Gold/Plat weeks (three consecutive), was that to use all three for a three-week stay or just to increase your odds of getting your two desired consecutive weeks wrapped around Memorial Day? If it's the latter, what do you do with the third week that you don't plan to occupy? Rent? Trade?



A couple times we stayed for the three weeks, a couple times we deposited the first week into II for an exchange.  Since the DC inception a few times we've cancelled the reservation and elected DC Points for the Week.  But most years we've cancelled the May reservation and re-booked the single Gold week for a Sep or Oct stay during the same year.  Other than the couple years that we used all three Weeks as they were originally booked, that first Gold Week was definitely used to increase our odds of getting the high-demand Memorial Day stays.


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## Dean (Sep 10, 2016)

JIMinNC said:


> OK. Thanks. I see the benefit to someone who wants to rent their reserved units, even though that has no value to me.
> 
> So in the situations where you reserved your Gold/Gold/Plat weeks (three consecutive), was that to use all three for a three-week stay or just to increase your odds of getting your two desired consecutive weeks wrapped around Memorial Day? If it's the latter, what do you do with the third week that you don't plan to occupy? Rent? Trade?


It's also a major benefit in simply getting what you want to use.  In your case you might buy something that works as a trader or something else to use that can be booked at the same time if you own a high demand resort and need a high demand week.  You could book at 13 months out then change, rent, use or deposit the second resort.  Since 50% of the inventory is released at 13 months out, that means at 12 months out half the inventory might be gone already gone.  For some resorts and weeks this may not having any meaning but for some it is paramount.


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## Quilter (Sep 10, 2016)

davidvel said:


> Sue is totally right, in practice.
> 
> Legally, my opinion is that you'd have to book consecutive or concurrent in your own resort, but disregard this opinion the same way Marriott does...:ignore:



This is too cryptic for me. 

Can you explain what you're referring to?

Thanks


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## Quilter (Sep 10, 2016)

SueDonJ said:


> Note multiple components from a single lock-off unit cannot be used at the 13-mos Window because they constitute a single Week ownership.  But a single component from a lock-off can be used at the 13-mos Window in combination with a lock-off component or full unit of another owned Week.



Sue, can you clarify what you're saying here?

Thanks,
Suzzanne


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## SueDonJ (Sep 10, 2016)

Quilter said:


> Sue, can you clarify what you're saying here?
> 
> Thanks,
> Suzzanne



The two components of a single lock-off 2BR Week can't be used to book two consecutive/concurrent intervals at the 13-mos window, because they constitute a single owned Week.  But the 13-mos window can be used when combining either/both of the two components of a 2BR lock-off with another owned Week, because multiple owned Weeks are being used.

Using the same example Weeks as above, you can't use the 13-mos window to book only the 1BR and studio components of the Grande Vista 2BR Week consecutively or concurrently.  You can, however, use the 13-mos window if you book either/both components of the GV lock-off Week consecutively/concurrently with the Newport Coast Villas or SurfWatch Week.


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## tschwa2 (Sep 10, 2016)

If you only own or are trying to use a single Marriott unit to book at 13 months you can't do so even if it is a lock off.  

You can use 2 lock offs to book at 13 months-using 2-4 weeks of lock off components but it takes 2 separate Marriott units to book at 13 months.


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## SueDonJ (Sep 10, 2016)

Quilter said:


> This is too cryptic for me.
> 
> Can you explain what you're referring to?
> 
> Thanks



I believe that the governing doc language for davidvel's owned resort (Shadow Ridge, if I'm remembering correctly?) is restrictive enough that he interprets it to mean that the 13-mos window applies only to owned Weeks at the same resort.  He's not alone - many who own at the older Marriott resorts have said the same thing.  They have a point.  

But the governing docs of newer resorts do not contain language as restrictive, and those docs can be interpreted to mean that different resorts can be used.  And, most all of the docs system-wide give Marriott as the Management Company leeway to amend/enforce Reservation Procedures so that they're consistent system-wide.  I've always believed that because some resorts aren't subject to the stricter interpretation, Marriott has chosen to enforce system-wide the process that's less restrictive so as to not take away rights contained in the docs for some.  If you ask Marriott they'll say they're giving an added benefit to those who believe as davidvel does, giving them the option to combine all of their Weeks to access the 13-mos window.  The owners, though, think that all single-Week owners of a specific resort should have to use the 12-mos window to book that single home resort Week regardless of whatever other Weeks they own.

I hope I got that right, David.  And I hope I'm not stepping on your toes.


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## Quilter (Sep 10, 2016)

bazzap said:


> I am not sure whether this might be something to tighten up on changes made to bookings in the 13 month window, but one of my recent such bookings which did have 2 separate reservation numbers subsequently had them combined under 1 reservation number.
> I don't recall receiving an email advising of this and I was not intending to make any changes so it did not affect me, but I did wonder what might be behind this.



Barry, Just wondering. . .by chance did this happen with one of your properties that's out of the US?

I've never had my reservations combined and I've done this for many years.


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## Quilter (Sep 10, 2016)

SueDonJ said:


> . . .
> 
> Believe it or not that's a simple exercise.    Keep it simple no matter what your variables are by making sure that the intervals you want fall consecutively and that you're using the tool to determine the correct Inventory Release Date for the first interval in your chain.  During all the calls I've made over the years to book multi-consecutive/concurrent reservations, the reps have all been knowledgeable and extremely helpful - they really have this under control.
> 
> . . .



Hi Sue,  

Me again.   I know I'm asking a lot of questions.   Just found the 13+month  diversion that this thread has taken. 

Have you noticed the OP disappeared on page 1? That seems to be the way it goes with these "what should I buy?" threads.   OP's say they've done their research and then the threads go into details that the regulars are still trying to sort out.  

So back to the above quote.   I have to put in that I don't find reserving consecutively  a simple exercise.    6 of our properties are lock-offs.   2 Platinum Ocean Pointes are oceanside and 2 are oceanfronts.   

Let's say I try to book 2 oceanside studios, 2 oceanfront studios, 2 oceanside 1 bedrooms, 2 oceanfront 1 bedrooms.   Hypothetically I could fly from PBI to PHX in the middle of all this so I can throw in a studio and a 1 bedroom Canyon Villas and come back to Ocean Pointe.   At the end I can have a Gold Grande Ocean and a Platinum Manor Club Sequel 1 bedroom and studio.   

I begin the call by telling the rep I'm making a string of reservations.   Some reps are great and some are an exercise in patience to work with.    The reservations can be moving along smoothly and then all of sudden one of the slots isn't available. 

For example, I can get the first 2 oceanside studios but the next oceanfront studio isn't available.   Ocean Pointe oceanfronts are limited in number.   Then you have to take into consideration there are 2 bedroom oceanfronts and 3 bedroom oceanfronts making the possible inventory very slim.   They get booked very early because the Platinum (Winter) is highly owner occupied.   Owners begin their stays in January and continue for 6-10 weeks (or more).   

Reservations can go smoothly or I may have to reorganize my plan once or even multiple times.   Generally it takes an hour or more and I'm mentally exhausted when it's done.


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## Quilter (Sep 10, 2016)

SueDonJ said:


> The two components of a single lock-off 2BR Week can't be used to book two consecutive/concurrent intervals at the 13-mos window, because they constitute a single owned Week.  But the 13-mos window can be used when combining either/both of the two components of a 2BR lock-off with another owned Week, because multiple owned Weeks are being used.
> 
> Using the same example Weeks as above, you can't use the 13-mos window to book only the 1BR and studio components of the Grande Vista 2BR Week consecutively or concurrently.  You can, however, use the 13-mos window if you book either/both components of the GV lock-off Week consecutively/concurrently with the Newport Coast Villas or SurfWatch Week.



Ahhhh yes.   Now I see what you're saying.   

Thanks for the clarification.


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## Quilter (Sep 10, 2016)

SueDonJ said:


> I believe that the governing doc language for davidvel's owned resort (Shadow Ridge, if I'm remembering correctly?) is restrictive enough that he interprets it to mean that the 13-mos window applies only to owned Weeks at the same resort.  He's not alone - many who own at the older Marriott resorts have said the same thing.  They have a point.
> 
> But the governing docs of newer resorts do not contain language as restrictive, and those docs can be interpreted to mean that different resorts can be used.  And, most all of the docs system-wide give Marriott as the Management Company leeway to amend/enforce Reservation Procedures so that they're consistent system-wide.  I've always believed that because some resorts aren't subject to the stricter interpretation, Marriott has chosen to enforce system-wide the process that's less restrictive so as to not take away rights contained in the docs for some.  If you ask Marriott they'll say they're giving an added benefit to those who believe as davidvel does, giving them the option to combine all of their Weeks to access the 13-mos window.  The owners, though, think that all single-Week owners of a specific resort should have to use the 12-mos window to book that single home resort Week regardless of whatever other Weeks they own.
> 
> I hope I got that right, David.  And I hope I'm not stepping on your toes.



I didn't know that about the difference in document language.

We used to own at the Aruba Ocean Club (older resort) and I easily mixed it with my Ocean Pointes and Canyon Villas.


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## Dean (Sep 10, 2016)

Quilter said:


> Hi Sue,
> 
> Me again.   I know I'm asking a lot of questions.   Just found the 13+month  diversion that this thread has taken.
> 
> ...


It can get complicated but with some of the easier properties to reserve, it sounds like there are other methods that might work out better for you.  Maybe there's a better string that will end up being easier way to reserve.  Don't forget you can make changes to later and that the further out the difficult to get options are, the better your chances.  Booking all the Oceanside first then the OF will improve your chances of success.  



Quilter said:


> I didn't know that about the difference in document language.
> 
> We used to own at the Aruba Ocean Club (older resort) and I easily mixed it with my Ocean Pointes and Canyon Villas.


Even then the wording is open for interpretation.  In the past we've discussed this in particular regard to Maui.  Regardless, the reality is that Marriott has complete control over the reservation process and could change it at any time so arguing about nuances taking a stance different than the way Marriott is interpreting it doesn't make a lot of sense.


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## Quilter (Sep 10, 2016)

Dean said:


> It can get complicated but with some of the easier properties to reserve, it sounds like there are other methods that might work out better for you.  Maybe there's a better string that will end up being easier way to reserve.  *Don't forget you can make changes to later and that the further out the difficult to get options are, the better your chances.*  Booking all the Oceanside first then the OF will improve your chances of success.
> 
> 
> Even then the wording is open for interpretation.  *In the past we've discussed this in particular regard to Maui. * Regardless, the reality is that Marriott has complete control over the reservation process and could change it at any time so arguing about nuances taking a stance different than the way Marriott is interpreting it doesn't make a lot of sense.




Oh yes I do use the option for changes thanks to the new DC where you don't have a fee every time.   I'm grateful that the DC program allows some things to be be owner friendly even though there's parts of the DC that are stinky (i.e., skim for one).   

I must have missed the discussion on document interpretation since I'm not a Maui owner and don't generally read those threads.

This thread wasn't one that I was initially interested in but the repetition of it showing up with a new comment got my curiosity.


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## taterhed (Sep 10, 2016)

SueDonJ said:


> The two components of a single lock-off 2BR Week can't be used to book two consecutive/concurrent intervals at the 13-mos window, because they constitute a single owned Week. But the 13-mos window can be used when combining either/both of the two components of a 2BR lock-off with another owned Week, because multiple owned Weeks are being used.
> 
> Using the same example Weeks as above, you can't use the 13-mos window to book only the 1BR and studio components of the Grande Vista 2BR Week consecutively or concurrently. You can, however, use the 13-mos window if you book either/both components of the GV lock-off Week consecutively/concurrently with the Newport Coast Villas or SurfWatch Week.




Susan:  Can I suggest that a good 'compendium' of the information on the tail end of this thread should be sticky'd or added to the Marriott 13mos reservation FAQs? The information in this thread FAR surpasses what is in the FAQ currently and would be much easier to quote than finding this thread again...

This is really the best 13 month thread I've seen!


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## JIMinNC (Sep 10, 2016)

Quilter said:


> Have you noticed the OP disappeared on page 1? That seems to be the way it goes with these "what should I buy?" threads.   OP's say they've done their research and then the threads go into details that the regulars are still trying to sort out.



Actually, the OP had a couple of threads about his purchase decision, and posted a few days ago in another thread that they had struck a deal on a 3BR Grande Vista and were waiting to see if it would pass ROFR. Here is that other thread: 

http://tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=245957

His post about their recent purchase is in post #14. So he didn't really disappear. This thread just moved on to other related topics.


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## Quilter (Sep 10, 2016)

JIMinNC said:


> Actually, the OP had a couple of threads about his purchase decision, and posted a few days ago in another thread that they had struck a deal on a 3BR Grande Vista and were waiting to see if it would pass ROFR. Here is that other thread:
> 
> http://tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=245957
> 
> His post about their recent purchase is in post #14. So he didn't really disappear. This thread just moved on to other related topics.



Nice!  Thank you


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## JIMinNC (Sep 10, 2016)

SueDonJ said:


> A couple times we stayed for the three weeks, a couple times we deposited the first week into II for an exchange.  Since the DC inception a few times we've cancelled the reservation and elected DC Points for the Week.  But most years we've cancelled the May reservation and re-booked the single Gold week for a Sep or Oct stay during the same year.  Other than the couple years that we used all three Weeks as they were originally booked, that first Gold Week was definitely used to increase our odds of getting the high-demand Memorial Day stays.





Dean said:


> It's also a major benefit in simply getting what you want to use.  In your case you might buy something that works as a trader or something else to use that can be booked at the same time if you own a night demand resort and need a high demand week.  You could book at 13 months out then change, rent, use or deposit the second resort.  Since 50% of the inventory is released at 13 months out, that means at 12 months out half the inventory might be gone already gone.  For some resorts and weeks this may not having any meaning but for some it is paramount.



Thanks. That helps a lot. We only own one week now, but I've always wanted to understand the benefits of the 13 month weeks window...just in case we look at adding a week sometime in the future.


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## Dean (Sep 10, 2016)

JIMinNC said:


> Thanks. That helps a lot. We only own one week now, but I've always wanted to understand the benefits of the 13 month weeks window...just in case we look at adding a week sometime in the future.


It can be a great option for many but it can be very complicated fitting together the best option.

When I make multiple week reservations starting at 13 months out, I always start with the idea of what's most important to me and what's most difficult to reserve.  That's usually a very easy answer, Grande Ocean week 25 or 26 to get multiple villas.  Then I consider what else I want and how I'll use it.  Generally that means determine what I'll rent, use, exchange or take DC points on.


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