# Help me understand 'trading power'



## mengberg (Jun 3, 2007)

When I bought my timeshare at Polo Towers the salespeople explained in a very Rosy fashion how trading works.  I would love to get the real explanation.

Polo Towers was a part of II.  I was told since Polo was rated a 5 star resort and that the entire season was red that if I deposited my week I could get any week anywhere I wanted.  It was explained to me that in the 'old' days, trading services would have to find someone who wanted 'your' week but it was all much simpler now.   I was told that the when I deposited a week, II would simply look at type of timeshare (5 star) and if the week was during Red season.  Since it was, I would be able to trade for any other 5 star timeshare during high season.

I see lots of comments about difficult to trade resorts, weeks, etc.  If this isn't the way someone like II decides on a trade, please explain the actual mechanics.  Or is it all black magic?


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## Spence (Jun 3, 2007)

mengberg said:


> When I bought my timeshare at Polo Towers the salespeople explained in a very Rosy fashion how trading works.  I would love to get the real explanation.
> 
> Polo Towers was a part of II.  I was told since Polo was rated a 5 star resort and that the entire season was red that if I deposited my week I could get any week anywhere I wanted.  It was explained to me that in the 'old' days, trading services would have to find someone who wanted 'your' week but it was all much simpler now.   I was told that the when I deposited a week, II would simply look at type of timeshare (5 star) and if the week was during Red season.  Since it was, I would be able to trade for any other 5 star timeshare during high season.
> 
> I see lots of comments about difficult to trade resorts, weeks, etc.  If this isn't the way someone like II decides on a trade, please explain the actual mechanics.  Or is it all black magic?



Red=/=Red.  All weeks Red should set off alarms.
5 Star means nothing.  Quality is nice but in timeshares it's location/timeperiod/size.
It's all supply vs demand.  If everyone wants your week because of location and time period then you have a good trader.  This usually means popular family destinations when kids are out of school as in summer and holidays.


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## mengberg (Jun 3, 2007)

Thanks for the response.  Not trying to be rude but I was hoping for a little more detail.  (Maybe it IS all black magic.)  What has to happen for a trade to take place?
a. Does trading company only trade if they can find someone at the resort I want to take my week?
b. Does trade only happen if ANYONE in the network will take my week?
c. Do they actually have to find someone to take my week before they would allow me to trade it?
d. Do they 'grade' my week and somehow decide if it's valuable enough to allow me to trade for the resort I want?
e. Do they simply deposit my week into their pool, making it available for someone else and give me the week I want if one of those is also in the pool?

From what I remember, e, is essentially how they told me it works.

Thanks.


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## timeos2 (Jun 3, 2007)

*Whoa ho ho it's magic (you know the song)*



mengberg said:


> Thanks for the response.  Not trying to be rude but I was hoping for a little more detail.  (Maybe it IS all black magic.)  What has to happen for a trade to take place?
> a. Does trading company only trade if they can find someone at the resort I want to take my week?



No. They try to get you to take less than you gave up and the person who put in the week you are willing to accept less than it is worth. They try to get everyone possible to trade down. Usually it works. 



mengberg said:


> b. Does trade only happen if ANYONE in the network will take my week?



No. Even if your week never gets taken you still have a right to claim a week someplace else. It may not be a great week as the fact that your week wasn't claimed means it wasn't a very good time/location/resort but you can still get something if you want. 



mengberg said:


> c. Do they actually have to find someone to take my week before they would allow me to trade it?



No. Once they accept it you can claim another week that you find acceptable. 



mengberg said:


> d. Do they 'grade' my week and somehow decide if it's valuable enough to allow me to trade for the resort I want?



Yes. Thats the unknown and changeable nature of the weak attempts to balance the value between resorts/times/locations that the week for week systems are not very good at.  But they do try. Usually by getting you to trade down. 



mengberg said:


> e. Do they simply deposit my week into their pool, making it available for someone else and give me the week I want if one of those is also in the pool?



Yes. As long as your week has the mythical "trade value" or more of the week you desire. What is that value? Good luck finding out. In most case the simple answer is "you don't have it".


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## Spence (Jun 3, 2007)

You can be as rude as you like, I don't think your post or follow-up were rude.
Item 'd' is closest to being right when you're talking about the larger exchange companies, RCI and II.  They have history, they know what the 'value' is of each week that comes from an affiliated resort.  They assign this 'value'  they don't tell you what it is.  You can only guess, just like the developer tells you you can trade for anything, they perpetuate the myth, but the truth is most resort/weeks cannot trade for anything in these systems.  That's why some like points because it takes that value guess out of the mix.



mengberg said:


> Thanks for the response.  Not trying to be rude but I was hoping for a little more detail.  (Maybe it IS all black magic.)  What has to happen for a trade to take place?
> a. Does trading company only trade if they can find someone at the resort I want to take my week?
> b. Does trade only happen if ANYONE in the network will take my week?
> c. Do they actually have to find someone to take my week before they would allow me to trade it?
> ...


If someone comes along and takes your dog week right away, it does not change the 'value'  unless lots of people were wanting that week.

They don't give you a week unless your trading power is within reach of the week you want.


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## brucecz (Jun 3, 2007)

Spence gave you a short  accessment which was far more honest and accurrate than what your sales weasel told you.

If you have one of the better higher( Bright RED) demand weeks to exchange with then you will mostly likely get some very good trades but in most cases not the top exchanges. If you have one of the lower( Pinkish Red) demand weeks to exchange with then you will not get as good as trades.

It would take a very post to describe trading power that would not be 100% right a week from now as trading power can  change from day to day.

To get a handle on what you can exspect IMHO I would suggest you scroll  as far  back as you can on the  Tug BBS Exchanging site and spend and hour reviewing the posts regarding II trades. That should help answe some of the questions you asked and make you aware somr things you were aware of and did not ask about.

Do you own a fixed or floating week?  Unfortunately Las Vegas has a lot of availabilty.

I have no problem trading into to your resort during prime times with a non 5 star Wisconsin resort using a Blue thanks giving  week. But we passed on your resort a grabbed the higher rated Marriott Grand Chautea that is right behind your polo towers.

I had a resale at the Polo Toewrs about 6 yeas ago and then sold asap after   learning about the management company.

I wish you good luck in exchanging.

Bruce  



mengberg said:


> Thanks for the response.  Not trying to be rude but I was hoping for a little more detail.  (Maybe it IS all black magic.)  What has to happen for a trade to take place?
> a. Does trading company only trade if they can find someone at the resort I want to take my week?
> b. Does trade only happen if ANYONE in the network will take my week?
> c. Do they actually have to find someone to take my week before they would allow me to trade it?
> ...


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## mengberg (Jun 3, 2007)

Thanks for all the info.  Really does sound like black magic after all!
Trade is for like value (or less than) but no way to know the value of 'my' week OR the week of the resort I want.  In other words, I may be trying to trade for a week that I could never ever possibly get but I would never know that because that information isn't available.  In all the years I've owned it, I only traded twice and it worked out fine both times so I guess I got extremely lucky or Polo has good value.  No way to know I guess.

Also, even though I purchased a particular week at Polo, I understood that weeks were floating, or that I could trade my week for some other week at the resort.  (I've actually done that multiple times.)  If this is the case, can't II also assume to trade my week for almost any week that someone else in the system might want to have access to?  (Other than very hard to get weeks like X-Mas, etc.)


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## mengberg (Jun 3, 2007)

brucecz said:


> To get a handle on what you can exspect IMHO I would suggest you scroll  as far  back as you can on the  Tug BBS Exchanging site and spend and hour reviewing the posts regarding II trades. That should help answe some of the questions you asked and make you aware somr things you were aware of and did not ask about.
> 
> I wish you good luck in exchanging.
> 
> Bruce



Well, to be honest, I'm seriously considering just selling the thing on eBay to get out from under the MF's.  We recently purchased a vacation club membership that everyone on the boards has told me is a scam so I may have been bitten twice!  To try and evaluate my current purchase with what I already own at Polo, I've been trying to get to understand the whole trading process better.  If ANYONE at II, RCI, or a resort explained it the way you guys have, I doubt anyone would ever buy a TS.


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## AwayWeGo (Jun 3, 2007)

*Catch 22 ?*




timeos2 said:


> They try to get everyone possible to trade down. Usually it works.


OK, so the exchange system tries to get me to trade down on the 1 hand, but on the other hand the same system _won't let me_ trade down because of VEP --  because it doesn't want me to be "disappointed" by accidentally exchanging into some timeshare that I won't think is as nice as the timeshare I deposited, or some such. 

Bottom line is the system can't find me anything appropriate & suitable to trade into because either my trade power is too low or my VEP is too high or both.  Sheesh. 

No wonder RCI thinks it has to rent'm out to the general public in order to stay afloat financially.  What else can it do with'm when that _Catch 22_ makes'm all unavailable all the time? 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


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## Spence (Jun 3, 2007)

mengberg said:


> Well, to be honest, I'm seriously considering just selling the thing on eBay to get out from under the MF's.  We recently purchased a vacation club membership that everyone on the boards has told me is a scam so I may have been bitten twice!  To try and evaluate my current purchase with what I already own at Polo, I've been trying to get to understand the whole trading process better.  If ANYONE at II, RCI, or a resort explained it the way you guys have, I doubt anyone would ever buy a TS.


That's why salesmen lie and/or leave out all the facts.  RCI and II don't sell timeshares, they just court developers.  The idea that Red=Red is a developer myth that RCI and II go along with to placate developers who need this to sell more expensive weeks.

We'd certainly love to have the details of your vacation club and how you've been successful with it in getting what you want.  We'll probably find it hard to believe.


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## AwayWeGo (Jun 3, 2007)

*What?  Timesharing Without Exchanging?   Too Simple!*




mengberg said:


> If ANYONE at II, RCI, or a resort explained it the way you guys have, I doubt anyone would ever buy a TS.


Well, maybe not if trading for reservations to stay at other people's timeshares was the main idea -- which it surely is from the perspective of RCI & I-I. 

However, plenty of regular walking-around timeshare owners don't give a rip about depositing their weeks for possible exchange into other people's timeshares.  For those folks, it's OK just going to their own timeshares that they bought because they like the location, they like the amenities, they like the accommodations, they like the features, & they like the (resale) price. 

Obviously that mode of timesharing has no appeal to RCI & I-I -- but that's _their_ problem. 

Plus, it's odd (to say the least) hearing professional sales personnel trying to get me to buy the timeshare they're selling so that I can use somebody else's timeshare in some completely different location instead of the timeshare I'm being shown.  I don't think I've ever heard any professional timeshare sellers tell me I better buy a week at the timeshare they're selling, because I'll never, ever have any chance of staying there on exchange. 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


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## mengberg (Jun 3, 2007)

Spence said:


> We'd certainly love to have the details of your vacation club and how you've been successful with it in getting what you want.  We'll probably find it hard to believe.



Well, since I just bought it, I haven't actually used it yet.  As I use it, I'll report back.  (Or if it does turn out to be very hard to use and I end up agreeing that it was a waste, I'll report on that too.)


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## qlaval (Jun 4, 2007)

AwayWeGo said:


> ...I don't think I've ever heard any professional timeshare sellers tell me *I better buy a week at the timeshare they're selling, because I'll never, ever have any chance of staying there on exchange*...



GEEE! I sure like that line....


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## Bill4728 (Jun 4, 2007)

My secret to trading power is you have to be able to try muliple TS resorts and weeks at the resort to see what is currently available in II. ( doesn't tell you what maybe available by requesting)

I own in 3 point based systems. Therefore I can search with my very best week or an OK week or a not so good week. I also can vary the size of the unit I search with. All these things allow me to try and maximize my trades so I trade the least for the most. 

 I needed a Nov SoCal exchange and had to trade an OK 2 bd week at my best resort to get it. My DD wanted a Dec SoCal week and was able to get it the a OK 1 bd week at a lesser resort we own.


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## bnoble (Jun 4, 2007)

> I don't think I've ever heard any professional timeshare sellers tell me I better buy a week at the timeshare they're selling, because I'll never, ever have any chance of staying there on exchange.


I've read report of this claim from at least one person who toured Bonnet Creek.  Wynfield doesn't bulk-bank it, they bank "lesser" resorts instead to meet their quota with RCI.  And, Wynfield owners currently cannot designate a specific week into RCI.  So, RCI plain don't got it.  You might find it on an independent exchange from time to time, but you won't likely find it in RCI anytime soon.


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## CatLovers (Jun 4, 2007)

mengberg said:


> In other words, I may be trying to trade for a week that I could never ever possibly get but I would never know that because that information isn't available.



Not quite.  That information isn't available officially.  However, unofficially, there are ways to find out, or at least get a pretty good idea.  First option, this board.  Members have access to trade test results that have been done for both RCI and II.  Second option, ask a specific question.  Someone can usually give you a pretty good idea of the trading power of your week, and how often particular resorts or areas come up during specific times of the year.  Third option, if your resort is also affiliated with RCI points, you can just look up (or ask a Points member) to look up the point value.  The point value is a pretty good indication of trading power.  Fourth option, if your resort is affiliated with II, look up the travel demand index (in the resort directory).  Again, it's not perfect, but it will give you a pretty good idea.

If you are in a floating weeks resort, the key is to request a week that has higher demand and deposit that into one of the exchange companies.  Keep in mind that you can only do this at some resorts; at other resorts they get to pick which week to give you to deposit into RCI or II inventory (and you can bet that they give you their dogs!)


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## fnewman (Jun 5, 2007)

AwayWeGo said:


> . I don't think I've ever heard any professional timeshare sellers tell me I better buy a week at the timeshare they're selling, because I'll never, ever have any chance of staying there on exchange.


Actually, I think I have heard almost those words (but just once) when attending a presentation at a very small, but nice, T/S in a desirable location where few other T/S properties exist.  THe place only had about 25 units as I recall and I got there on a points exchage just by 'accident' and have never seen any availability there since.  However, I agree that in most locations, you will never hear that !! 

Back to the main topic of this thread, it seems to me that many people become unhappy with the trading process becuase they can't trade for MORE than their week is worth.  Yes, that is pretty hard to do when trading weeks, especially when (as pointed out above, ther eae all 'shades' of red).  However, I seem to have had some success when trading Sunterra SunOptions.  In quite a few cases I have been able to get very nice Marriott units in desireable locations with a very reasonable number of points paid.  Another plus for points !


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## timeos2 (Jun 5, 2007)

fnewman said:


> Back to the main topic of this thread, it seems to me that many people become unhappy with the trading process becuase they can't trade for MORE than their week is worth.  Yes, that is pretty hard to do when trading weeks, especially when (as pointed out above, ther eae all 'shades' of red).  However, I seem to have had some success when trading Sunterra SunOptions.  In quite a few cases I have been able to get very nice Marriott units in desireable locations with a very reasonable number of points paid.  Another plus for points !



My experience as well. I only have one Sunterra resort and using it as a week for week trade in RCI it has always worked very well, in II it was terrible.  Along comes the Club Sunterra points option and viola - the exact same resort but now converted to points and using the preferred corporate account, which also saves us the cost of our II membership we used to have to pay, not only trades great but, like you, we find we get the trades and don't even use all our points!  A big big plus for points and II's "backdoor" points systems.  We will never trade a week as an individual member with II again.  The system clearly favors the corporate accounts over the mere paying member.


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## Spence (Jun 5, 2007)

timeos2 said:


> My experience as well. I only have one Sunterra resort and using it as a week for week trade in RCI it has always worked very well, in II it was terrible.  Along comes the Club Sunterra points option and *viola* - the exact same resort but now converted to points and using the preferred corporate account, which also saves us the cost of our II membership we used to have to pay, not only trades great but, like you, we find we get the trades and don't even use all our points!  A big big plus for points and II's "backdoor" points systems.  We will never trade a week as an individual member with II again.  The system clearly favors the corporate accounts over the mere paying member.


Having trouble with your french? or did you mean A stringed instrument of the violin family, slightly larger than a violin, tuned a fifth lower, and having a deeper, more sonorous tone, voilà.:rofl: 

I'd not gloat too much as I'm sure the points chart is negotiated with II on at least an every other year basis.


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## timeos2 (Jun 5, 2007)

*Sunterra - when will it end?*



Spence said:


> Having trouble with your french? or did you mean A stringed instrument of the violin family, slightly larger than a violin, tuned a fifth lower, and having a deeper, more sonorous tone, voilà.:rofl:
> 
> I'd not gloat too much as I'm sure the points chart is negotiated with II on at least an every other year basis.



Dern sppell chackers anyway!  

I've occasionally thought about the risk of posting how well Club options trade with II but neither II or Sunterra is responsive enough to take action. Plus it appears to be by design. Thats how II lures in the developers.  We're safe. Plus I really wouldn't care if it ended tomorrow as I'm perfectly happy using the Sunterra locations - II is, as all third party trader should be, just a nice option I'll use if it makes sense and offers value to us.  I don't depend on trades from anyone to give value to our timeshare ownerships.


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## guy33 (Jun 18, 2007)

*Understanding Trading Power*

I have experience with both RCI and II and I find that RCI is a little more generous when it comes to availability but II is more interested in value for value.  The most important advice I can give is that depositing your week early is the most predictable way to maximize trading power.  Some resorts are in such high demand that Intervals/RCI may hold that unit until the last 20 days (prior to expiration) before allowing “yellow/white” and “green/blue” week owners to see it in inventory.  The higher the demand the longer the unit will remain invisible to off season owners.  If a “yellow/white week” owner calls Intervals/RCI and asks for Orlando for a “red date” six months in advance the inventory visible for that owner may be empty or very limited, while a “Five Star Red Owner” from a Las Vegas resort may call for the same place and be given 100 choices.  Inventory is made available by a scientific probability algorithm of exchange.  “Yellow/White” and “Green/Blue” week owners are generally only allowed access to resorts during their off-peak times, but when a “red week” at a premium resort is still available 2 to 6 weeks before the expiration date Intervals/RCI is going to offer the unit to anyone, regardless of ownership.  Remember, RCI does not see colors, but they know demand and location.  A developer may claim to have 40 weeks of red time but RCI may know that only 25 weeks at that particular resort is really worthy to be classified as quality time.  A good way to check the Demand level of a resort is to check the season color table for the resort and do phantom searches to find how often they come up on the Getaway list for extra vacations.  Some of the best vacation areas are so saturated with timeshare resorts that they are accessible regardess of where you own, but others have a waiting list longer than a queue for free government cheese.  Some owners do ongoing searches constantly and use high quality weeks to try and get locations in hard to get places.  I recently traded an average week for a terrific week but I deposited early and planned 12 months in advance.


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## guy33 (Jun 18, 2007)

*Understanding Trading Power*

I have experience with both RCI and II and I find that RCI is a little more generous when it comes to availability but II is more interested in value for value.  The most important advice I can give is that depositing your week early is the most predictable way to maximize trading power.  Some resorts are in such high demand that Intervals/RCI may hold that unit until the last 20 days (prior to expiration) before allowing “yellow/white” and “green/blue” week owners to see it in inventory.  The higher the demand the longer the unit will remain invisible to off season owners.  If a “yellow/white week” owner calls Intervals/RCI and asks for Orlando for a “red date” six months in advance the inventory visible for that owner may be empty or very limited, while a “Five Star Red Owner” from a Las Vegas resort may call for the same place and be given 100 choices.  Inventory is made available by a scientific probability algorithm of exchange.  “Yellow/White” and “Green/Blue” week owners are generally only allowed access to resorts during their off-peak times, but when a “red week” at a premium resort is still available 2 to 6 weeks before the expiration date Intervals/RCI is going to offer the unit to anyone, regardless of ownership.  Remember, RCI does not see colors, but they know demand and location.  A developer may claim to have 40 weeks of red time but RCI may know that only 25 weeks at that particular resort is really worthy to be classified as quality time.  A good way to check the Demand level of a resort is to check the season color table for the resort and do phantom searches to find how often they come up on the Getaway list for extra vacations.  Some of the best vacation areas are so saturated with timeshare resorts that they are accessible regardess of where you own, but others have a waiting list longer than a queue for free government cheese.  Some owners do ongoing searches constantly and use high quality weeks to try and get locations in hard to get places.  I recently traded an average week for a terrific week but I deposited early and planned 12 months in advance.


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## winger (Jun 18, 2007)

mengberg said:


> Well, to be honest, I'm seriously considering just selling the thing on eBay to get out from under the MF's.  We recently purchased a vacation club membership that everyone on the boards has told me is a scam so I may have been bitten twice!  ....



what vacation club membership?


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## Bill4728 (Jun 18, 2007)

There are two kinds of vacations clubs
1. The first kind of  vacation club is a scam!! They tell you, you'll get great vacation deals thru the club. But you get the same kind of deals you can easily find thru RCI last minute vacations & II getaways. You can get these deals without paying a penny via the general public website like Snaptravel.com or condoworld.com.  

2. the second kind of vacation club is just a misnomer.  There are TS developers out there who don't like to use the word "Timeshare" so they call their TS product a vacation club. An example would be Club Intrawest. They call themselves a vacation club but they are a point based TS.

So vacation club which promise you they can book vacations not available to the general public are the vacation clubs to avoid.


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## mengberg (Oct 1, 2008)

mengberg said:


> Well, since I just bought it, I haven't actually used it yet.  As I use it, I'll report back.  (Or if it does turn out to be very hard to use and I end up agreeing that it was a waste, I'll report on that too.)



I haven’t posted in a long time but I had said I would post my experience with Global Discovery Vacations after I had a chance to use it.  It looks as though other posts I had made describing Global Discovery got deleted so I won’t go into anymore detail about it.  I expect to get flamed so I also won’t argue about the service either.

Anyway, since purchasing it about a year and a half ago we’ve used it 3 times.  Once for Cancun, once in Orlando and once in China.  We’ve been very happy with the locations we traded for and felt as though we got good value for the money spent.  Once I tried to find a place on Cozumel for my son but the closest they could get me was the Mayan Palace near Cancun which wasn’t what he wanted.  
Our last use was the most interesting.  A year ago we had decided that we wanted to go to China for the Paralympics as my wife had a former student playing on the US Goalball team.  There are apparently not many timeshares in Beijing, (shocking huh?), so I didn’t really hold out a lot of hope.  To try and increase my odds, I put in a request through Global Discovery AND renewed my II membership and deposited my week from Polo Towers and put in a request thought II.  It wasn’t looking too hopeful until about 2 months before we wanted to leave that Global Discovery contacted me with a unit to trade for.  II never found me a unit even though the residence that Global found me a week at is part of II’s inventory.  (Absolute Private Residence Club at Jinqiao).
So, after using it for a little over a year, I have to say that I’m happier with Global Discovery than I ever was with my ‘normal’ timeshare.  I paid less for it, trades cost me less and I don’t pay any maintenance fees.  I don’t own title to anything but in my mind that’s a plus because my experience is that most titles to timeshares are only a chain around your neck that you can’t sell and cost you high fees year after year.

And finally, if you disagree with me, fine, but please don't call me a shill as I have nothing to do with the company. I'm just a regular guy who owns a small bus. in Utah and I can give you contact info if you don't believe me.


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## icutravel2 (Oct 5, 2008)

"trade power" for both RCI and II is a proprietary formula.  It takes into account resort, rating, week owned, etc.  It is like coca cola, the formula in its entirety is unknown.  My personal experience is "if" you own a name brand like Starwood, Hilton or Marriott, and want to go to a desirable location like "Hawaii". Book IT way ahead of time, like 9 -10 months......Once you get the confirmation, it becomes very easy to trade it for "something else" if u cannot make the trip....Realizing you may have to pay two fee's.  I had this happen this year............when I had to change some plans due to a medical emergency.


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