# Convoluted ownership mess



## mkahanek (Apr 14, 2014)

It has been a while since I posted on here.   Wife and I had our first a couple of years ago and our traveling came to a screeching halt.

Anyway. My ownership is a bit different than average. 

My best friend and I bought a week 50/50 back in 2004 at Ko Olina.   We agreed that on odd years he would take the master suite and I would take the guest bedroom and vice versa on even.   Occasionally one of us would need the entire villa and would take it one year thus relinquishing our half the following year.  

This has worked perfectly for us to this point.   As a precaution I enrolled our week for $595 and took the 800 plus points.


A month ago my friend bought 3500 DC points.   Unfortunately he is not educated in the way of timeshare and dc.  I am sure he was told all about bank and borrow and convert of legacy.   

Of course in order to make is new ownership model work he will need the entire villa every other year to convert to 4025 points.  That leaves me with eoy.   I am ok with that as i usually lock off and look for good uptrades during flex.  So far I have scored waiohai, Ko Olina ocean view, and st. Kitts 3br all for a mountain view guest room.   Hopefully those kind of trades can still be had.   

Marriott told him he would need to "quick claim" something in order to be able to use his eoy week in the dc program.  I have no clue of the mechanics of this.   So far we have been treated as one owner as far as mvci.com and intervalworld.com is concerned.   In fact it was one enrollment fee for the dc program.

Here is my question.   Basically if he quick claims our deed will be split and we will in effect become two separate owners.    Will both of our EOY weeks still be enrolled?  Or will one of us be left out in the wind and have to enroll at the new crazy price?   Has anyone else had a similar situation ?


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## sjsharkie (Apr 14, 2014)

I assume that the new DC point purchase is under your friend's name only.  That is probably why Marriott is telling you that the week needs to be split if you're friend wants to pool the points without transfers.

I'm no expert in the DC program, but why can't you just keep the accounts separate, and your friend can transfer points from the joint account to his new point account as needed?  People trade points all the time -- I don't see why this would be anything different.

You would need to find out what would happen if you split the account should you choose to go that route -- I assume Marriott will figure out some way to extract additional money to enroll the split account.  I doubt it would be free.

Good luck.

-ryan


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## BocaBoy (Apr 14, 2014)

sjsharkie said:


> .....why can't you just keep the accounts separate, and your friend can transfer points from the joint account to his new point account as needed?  People trade points all the time -- I don't see why this would be anything different.



I think this is excellent advice and should solve the problem.

I don't think it is even possible for you to split the annual week into two EOY weeks.  I suspect that what Marriott was telling him was that he needed to be the sole owner of the week for it to be in the same account  as his trust points.  "Quitclaim" is simply one type of deed for transferring ownership.  It cannot split an annual week into two EOY weeks.


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## LisaH (Apr 14, 2014)

I agree with sjsharkie. Transfer points between owners' accounts are allowed at the moment anyway.


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## Venter (Apr 14, 2014)

*One problem.*

The problem I can see for your friend is that once those points are transferred he cannot bank them into next year if he has points left. Borrowing might be out too as think DC points has one action only and then you are stuck. Kind of because if you use and cancel the reservation in the same use year you can bank but again in your friends case if the deed stays as it is he after the transfer it cannot be done. 

I think he either needs to buy you out including the enrolment fee or you guys should continue as is with knowing the limitations for your friend. The other option if trust is strong would be to put your name on the new trust points deed. Not good for the future though should things go pear shaped between the two of you.

Good luck. This is indeed a sticky situation and I hope it does not effect your friendship.


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## vacationhopeful (Apr 14, 2014)

First, I am NOT a Marriott owner. 

QUESTION: Is his name on the original deed?
You refer to it as YOUR ownership and YOU enrolled in the Points program by paying the $595.

If he is not on the deed, those are your points and you can choose to continue with the every other UNIT usage or EVERY other year full unit usage for him. If he wants to have you transfer the points to HIM - either do the every other year size unit swap OR the every other year USAGE of the points with him paying the ADDITIONAL COSTS for the number of points he gets those year --- I am assuming Marriott charges some administration fees for the DC Club.

*I WOULD NOT SIGN that QUIT CLAIM DEED *- unless YOU want to totally GIVE AWAY your ownership. Because that is what a QUIT CLAIM DEED IS. He is (perhaps) looking at those (YOUR) DC Points as some type of BUMP in (his) Marriott status?


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## ronparise (Apr 14, 2014)

They say 50% of marriages end in divorce.  

I think you will have to do the same thing couples that divorce often have to do, Sell the assets and split the proceeds. I wouldnt even begin to try to work this out.

Stories like this are why I havent entered into a business partnership in more than 30 years


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## dioxide45 (Apr 14, 2014)

I think the legacy week plus the new 3500 trust points will get him to Premier status. So that is why the legacy week need to be entirely in his name. Since the legacy week and trust points are in different names, they are separate accounts.

You can't split an annual week in to an EOY week by deeding only the even or odd years. MVCI doesn't allow that. Even if it did, if he got an EOY week, it would only be worth about 2000 points toward Premier status, now making him short of that desired status.

This is a tricky situation. I think I agree with the others, have your friend buy you out. One problem with that is that you bought developer and current market is so much cheaper. Another problem is that I value an enrolled week so much higher than any unenrolled week that you would replace it with if you go out and try to replace your week.


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## vacationhopeful (Apr 14, 2014)

I would first decide IF YOU want to keep this ownership.

I would congraduate him on his new purchase - and then add that you too are happy with the ownership YOU have, too.

And if he continues to ask you to sign the Quit Claim deed, just say "No" politely. You could add, "No, I am happy with my ownership ASIS". 

And if he wants an EOY additional ownership, print off some of the resale (eBAY) ads.

I totally agree, he wants the HIGH Marriott (Elite) status - at your expense.


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## vacationhopeful (Apr 14, 2014)

ronparise said:


> They say 50% of marriages end in divorce.
> 
> .....Stories like this are *why I havent entered into a business partnership in more than 30 years*



Advice I got from another real estate business person 30+ years also.


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## GregT (Apr 14, 2014)

Mark,

Interesting situation.  Congrats again by the way on your new baby (now toddler) -- life will never be the same!

With respect to the ownership situation, this is indeed awkward, and as others have indicated, the friendship is more important than any asset and so I hope that both you and your friend can navigate this transition without any lingering hard feelings on either side.

I do believe the correct solution is for your friend to get Marriott to split the Annual into two EOYs, and for you to each take sole and separate ownership of an EOY.    I also think your friend needs to take the lead and push Marriott to split the Annual into two EOYs.   I suspect they will resist it and say that it can't be done, but he needs to push this.   I would also spend a little time with your governing documents to see if this is already permitted -- if so, they have to do it (this I do have experience with).  This would make a big difference in how easy it is to get the Annual split.    

Marriott will also need to make sure that each EOY is enrolled, since the parent week is enrolled, each child EOY should remain enrolled.  Then you and your friend each have what you effectively thought you purchased.

If you maintain your posture of wanting a Guest Room every other year, then you need to trade for it through II.   I think you're MV owners, so you won't sacrifice view quality.

Your friend will not achieve his goal of Premier status, but this is his problem and I hope he recognizes that as a price of his decision.

Someone will have to sign a Quit Claim to someone else, depending on who owns the original deed.   If Marriott drafts legal paperwork allowing the split of the Annual into the EOY and each of you end up with an enrolled EOY, then I would sign the Quit Claim to the other EOY and be grateful that it was cleanly resolved and you get to keep your enrolled EOY.

I lost a good friend over a business venture and the business wasn't worth the friendship.  One of my regrets in life.

Good luck and let us know how it is resolved.

Best,

Greg


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## Bill4728 (Apr 14, 2014)

I not sure why anyone is suggesting a quit claim deed. they are cheaper to execute but could be problem later. Since this is something Marriott will have to sign off on ( making an annual into two EOY) I'd make sure that both deeds are the standard deeds not quit claim. 

IMHO "quit claim" are for easy transfers like from parents to kids not for something that could blow up in your face.


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## Mamianka (Apr 14, 2014)

ronparise said:


> They say 50% of marriages end in divorce.
> 
> I think you will have to do the same thing couples that divorce often have to do, Sell the assets and split the proceeds. I wouldnt even begin to try to work this out.
> 
> Stories like this are why I havent entered into a business partnership in more than 30 years




I agree.  The only thing worse than a partnership with a "best friend" is a partnership with family.  My late Dad used to say "Blood is thicker than water - but not as thick as a dollar bill."  We all tend to be more careful when making business deals when it is STRICTLY business, and our eyes are wide open.  Friends and family deals tend to get messy - and then resentful.  Sell this - even if to ONE of the two of you, once you figure out who owns what.  Then the other guy can take his proceeds and start fresh.  If you can figure this out amicably without any attorney being involved - unless they MUST - then more money on the table for both of you to have fun with.  Disclaimer - I am NOT an attorney or real estate expert - any advice from me, is coming from a musicologist.  Need a Mozart concerto straightened out?  I'm your gal . . .

Mamianka


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## vacationhopeful (Apr 14, 2014)

Of course, you could just BUY HIM out based on the original price or current market price - leaving you with the full MFs.

Or you could SELL him you share of the ownership ---

But it sounds like the "splitting" is NOT his real choice - he most likely has that BURN for the higher STATUS (and at a discounted value).

*I would offer him WHAT you all have been doing for multiple years:*

Alternate the usage/transfer the points to his account based on whose usage is for what side "that year" *OR* do the EVEN/ODD usage of all the points for the year.


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## SueDonJ (Apr 14, 2014)

The concerns mentioned are all valid: that as it stands the arrangement you two have does not allow for the Week's DC Points allotment to be combined with your friend's Week to give him Plat/Plat Prem DC status or allow DC Points conversions with banking/borrowing transactions; that Marriott may not allow a single Week to change ownership as two EOY intervals; that if it's allowed a Quit Claim deed/ownership transfer would not be as safeguarded as a standard one, etc ...

I'd also be concerned that IF Marriott allows the Week to be split into two EOY ownerships with different owners, they'd consider the transaction to be a current resale-by-Marriott thereby terminating your DC Membership which would then require one or the other Owner to purchase a like amount of DC Points direct from Marriott in order to enroll either EOY Week.  Worse than that, if they allow you to do it as an external resale, they could then disallow DC enrollment of both EOY intervals.

This is something I'd discuss with Owner Modifications in order to get the specifics in writing before agreeing to any ownership change.  I don't remember any similar situations being talked about on TUG before, but even if one had been I'd still think that Marriott might handle each unique situation differently.


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## vacationtime1 (Apr 14, 2014)

OP's problem is that he has a business partner (yes, a business partner in a $70,000 - $80,000 "investment") who bought retail, then bought points retail, didn't think about the legalisms in advance, believed the sales person who glossed over the legalisms, apparently didn't discuss the ramifications with his business partner in advance, now wants his business partner to do something contrary to his business partner's interest, and uses that grating phrase "quick claim deed", further verifying he knows nothing about real property transfers.

OP's business partner's problem is that OP doesn't own an eoy Ko Olina week; OP owns a half interest in an *enrolled* Ko Olina week, something far more valuable and not easily duplicated.

Until OP knows what Marriott would like to see happen, it is impossible to advise OP.


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## Ron98GT (Apr 14, 2014)

mkahanek said:


> It has been a while since I posted on here.   Wife and I had our first a couple of years ago and our traveling came to a screeching halt.
> 
> Anyway. My ownership is a bit different than average.
> 
> ...


Curious.

What's it cost to purchase 3500 DC points?

What if - the OP purchased 3500 DC points with his friend added to the contract (I assume no deed), and then the friend added the OP to his contract.  Then you'd have the annual Ko'Olina and two sets of 3500 DC points, with both people on all of the contracts/deeds. Sounds like a lot of points, but would that work? 

What if - the OP payed his friend half of what his friend paid Marriott for the 3500 DC points and had his name added to the contract.  It sounds like that's do-able, both would get elite status, but some how they lose points each year? Why?


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## vacationhopeful (Apr 14, 2014)

vacationtime1 said:


> OP's problem is that he has a business partner (yes, a business partner in a $70,000 - $80,000 "investment") who bought retail, then bought points retail, didn't think about the legalisms in advance, believed the sales person who glossed over the legalisms, apparently didn't discuss the ramifications with his business partner in advance, now wants his business partner to do something contrary to his business partner's interest, and uses that grating phrase "quick claim deed", further verifying he knows nothing about real property transfers.
> 
> OP's business partner's problem is that OP doesn't own an eoy Ko Olina week; OP owns a half interest in an *enrolled* Ko Olina week, something far more valuable and not easily duplicated.
> 
> *Until OP knows what Marriott would like to see happen, it is impossible to advise OP*.



Excellent post.

OP should NOT CARE what Marriott would like to see happen - Marriott SALES DEPARTMENT is just selling DC points and HOOKED his "friend" into a heffy bill for a bunch of DC points. 

OP needs to WRITE a reply to the co-owner and explain HE is happy with status quo of their prior arrangement and that he is not willing TO GIVE HIS SHARE of the arrangement away. Hence, he is NOT signing or agreeing to any QUIT CLAIM DEED.

Written notice - suggest you send it certified mail. Half of $80K is $40K ... protect your funds invested.  And "less said" in the letter is better - no offers, no conditions, no ranting ... Just this is what we own and share 50/50 - usage being Large side/Small side alternating years and MFs of 50% each year.


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## tschwa2 (Apr 14, 2014)

A mountain view Ko olina annual week use to cost $80,000?

Another option since although you enrolled you don't seem like you really use the DC enrolled option too much.  It sounds like you aying the program fee annually and lock off annually and use one exchange through II one time per year or one time every other year.  Not a whole lot of savings over paying a la carte.  You could look into the current price of an EOY ocean view or even ocean front or if there is another resort you like even better or you could just name your price to buy you out.  Since prices are lower now, you could also even get an annual mountain view but with twice the current MF's  you currently pay and no foreseeable chance at enrollment.

I have never heard of any timeshare type property allowing any kind of subdivision after the original offering in terms of deed.  So the quit claim that M is suggestion is a straight transfer to your friend.  You do not have to do this.


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## DB-Wis (Apr 14, 2014)

It seems to me that Marriott may have a legitimate interest in wanting to make sure that both co-owners have consented when an enrolled week is turned in for DC points.  But this can be accomplished with a consent form, signed and notarized by each co-owner, that allows the trade-in for points in a particular (specified) year and instructs Marriott as to the disposition of the DC point (i.e., in whose account they are deposited).  Such a form would simply address the co-owners rights for a particular year.  

A quit claim deed is NOT an appropriate legal instrument for addressing this problem -- at least so long as both co-owners want to preserve their shared rights to the enrolled week.  

I think the OP needs to tell his partner that he (the partner) needs to come up with a solution, at his expense, that everyone agrees to (including Marriott).


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## larryallen (Apr 14, 2014)

Buy-out agreement (either you buy or you sell), quitclaim, done. Timeshares are no place for a partnership.


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## BocaBoy (Apr 14, 2014)

DB-Wis said:


> *It seems to me that Marriott may have a legitimate interest in wanting to make sure that both co-owners have consented when an enrolled week is turned in for DC points. * But this can be accomplished with a consent form, signed and notarized by each co-owner, that allows the trade-in for points in a particular (specified) year and instructs Marriott as to the disposition of the DC point (i.e., in whose account they are deposited).



Not really.  This is the same legally as a husband and wife co-owning a week.  Marriott does not require consent of both when making a transaction.  Either owner can do it.


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## vacationtime1 (Apr 14, 2014)

vacationhopeful said:


> Excellent post.
> 
> OP should NOT CARE what Marriott would like to see happen - Marriott SALES DEPARTMENT is just selling DC points and HOOKED his "friend" into a heffy bill for a bunch of DC points.
> 
> ...



I agree, but the letter is to the co-owner, not to Marriott.  OP's "business partner" is the one who must work with Marriott and then suggest an acceptable solution to OP; if OP brings in Marriott, it will destroy their friendship which is not the goal.

The business partner has to find a way to make OP whole; if he cannot, things can just continue as they have (with the business partner not getting what he thought he was getting by buying 3500 points without doing adequate research).

The $80,000 number was my guesstimate of the cost of a mountain view annual unit purchased directly from Marriott + the cost of 3500 destination points.


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## vacationhopeful (Apr 14, 2014)

vacationtime1 said:


> I agree, but the letter is to the co-owner, not to Marriott.  OP's "business partner" is the one who must work with Marriott and then suggest an acceptable solution to OP; if OP brings in Marriott, it will destroy their friendship which is not the goal.
> 
> The business partner has to find a way to make OP whole; if he cannot, things can just continue as they have (with the business partner not getting what he thought he was getting by buying 3500 points without doing adequate research).
> 
> The $80,000 number was my guesstimate of the cost of a mountain view annual unit purchased directly from Marriott + the cost of 3500 destination points.



Robert, my certified letter was to the co-owner from the OP to establish his position in writing clearly with a legal date reference.

I could see the Sales team looking up his ownership (the OP's partner) which would have included the "co-owner ship" deed as a Marriott owner AND just selling the _SHIT_ out of the Elite level ownership. After the rescind period passed and the newly minted DC point owner still DID NOT have "ELITE" on his ownership or the Elite benefits, THEN his sales consultant told him to get the co-owner to do a QUIT CLAIM deed and his account would be upgraded to "ELITE". EZ PEESZE ... and that is a TS sales person spinning a web.


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## dioxide45 (Apr 14, 2014)

Ron98GT said:


> Curious.
> 
> What's it cost to purchase 3500 DC points?
> 
> ...



Sure this is an option, IF the OP also wants to spend $20,000 on half of the 3,500 DC points. From reading the original post, I don't think that was in their plan. Should the OP really have to pay the price for their friends lack of foresight.


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## vacationtime1 (Apr 14, 2014)

vacationhopeful said:


> Robert, my certified letter was to the co-owner from the OP to establish his position in writing clearly with a legal date reference.
> 
> I could see the Sales team looking up his ownership (the OP's partner) which would have included the "co-owner ship" deed as a Marriott owner AND just selling the _SHIT_ out of the Elite level ownership. After the rescind period passed and the newly minted DC point owner still DID NOT have "ELITE" on his ownership or the Elite benefits, THEN his sales consultant told him to get the co-owner to do a QUIT CLAIM deed and his account would be upgraded to "ELITE". EZ PEESZE ... and that is a TS sales person spinning a web.



We're saying the same thing.

I had thought better of Marriott, but at least some of its sales force lives down to TS salespeople's reputation.


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## dioxide45 (Apr 14, 2014)

The OP did indicate that this is their best friend, not a simple business partner if you ask me. Though they did enter in to a business agreement when they opted to buy the week from Marriott. I don't think an formal written letter sent certified mail is justified here. These are best friends. Surely they can work something out.

Though I don't see an easy way out of this and remain best friends. It is possible, but a sticky situation. The only way I really see this working out is if the OPs friend is still in the rescission period. If so, have the friend rescind immediately. Then work out the ownership situation of the legacy week. Once that is squared away, then the friend can go back and buy the points if they still want them.

If outside of the rescission period, here is how things will likely shake down.

*Situation 1 - *The friends thinks the OP should just quit claim the entire week over to the friend and they are now both Premier owners in their respective years. This doesn't impact the OP much if they don't use points, but helps the friend some in those years the points are theirs. This is a viable solution, but the OP would need to have a written contract with their friend. Though if anyone breaches that, the only solution is to sue the other partner. No longer friends. The OP also loses official control and the friend can now sell the week and walk away with all the proceeds leaving the OP to sue. No longer friends.

*Situation 2 - *The OP decides that they don't want to deed their rights to the friend. The friend is mad because they sunk $40,000 for 3,500 trust points that don't have the Premier moniker. No longer friends.

*Situation 3 - *The OP decides to sell out their interest in the week. The friend is mad because the cost is too high and doesn't think that is necessary because they can go along with option 1 just fine and dandy. The OP doesn't like the drawbacks of option 1, so there is no transfer of ownership, no longer friends.

*Situation 4 - *They decide to sell the week to a third party. This isn't a good option since the enrolled legacy week is lost and they can't get another one to replace it for anything close to the going market price for a MKO MV week. The friend doesn't have Premier status. No longer friends.

I hope they are real good friends, but they say that blood is thicker than water. Even if this were a family relationship, it would result in bad blood (pun intended) in the end. The best way to solve this is to rescind if it is still an option. If not, then Situation 1 is perhaps the best option if they can come to an amicable and written agreement.

Though I would still be upset if my best friend did this to me. They are a 50/50 partner in the business agreement but the friend made a decision without 51% majority. Not cool.


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## Ron98GT (Apr 14, 2014)

dioxide45 said:


> Sure this is an option, IF the OP also wants to spend $20,000 on half of the 3,500 DC points. From reading the original post, I don't think that was in their plan. Should the OP really have to pay the price for their friends lack of foresight.


So, 3500 DC points is $40,000.  Didn't imagine it was that expensive.


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## dioxide45 (Apr 14, 2014)

Ron98GT said:


> So, 3500 DC points is $40,000.  Didn't imagine it was that expensive.



The last price per piont that I saw was $11 and change. So that works out to at least $38,500. I rounded up for good measure.  Though probably pretty close to $40K with the closing costs included.


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## mkahanek (Apr 15, 2014)

dioxide45 said:


> I think the legacy week plus the new 3500 trust points will get him to Premier status. So that is why the legacy week need to be entirely in his name. Since the legacy week and trust points are in different names, they are separate accounts.
> 
> You can't split an annual week in to an EOY week by deeding only the even or odd years. MVCI doesn't allow that. Even if it did, if he got an EOY week, it would only be worth about 2000 points toward Premier status, now making him short of that desired status.
> 
> This is a tricky situation. I think I agree with the others, have your friend buy you out. One problem with that is that you bought developer and current market is so much cheaper. Another problem is that I value an enrolled week so much higher than any unenrolled week that you would replace it with if you go out and try to replace your week.



Yea.  not selling my half as I use the you know what out of that asset.    He is just now getting in to using time share.   

Thanks for all of the advice.  It certainly sounds like my titles nailed it with the term convoluted.


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## mkahanek (Apr 15, 2014)

GregT said:


> Mark,
> 
> I
> 
> ...



Thats the thing.  Both of our names are on the deed.  I am no legal expert.   When we book a week both our names are automatically allowed to check in.  We plan on a conference call to Marriott to begin to work on this.

That said.  I am not interest in losing any ownerwhip rights that I already have.  

I think my friend was told or believes that marriott will simply convert our ownership in to two seperate every other week assets.  From what I am reading here that does not sound like it can happen.   

Does anyone have a suggestion on who I should call at Marriott to discuss my options?

Also.  Not interested in paying for any points.   Not interested in selling my developer bought asset and whatever benefits (ability to convert to points or marriott reward, or booking pref at home resort such as staying above floor 7) that I have.  So selling my half and then buying resale.  Nah..   NOT unless he gives me the original purchase price for my half of a mountain view and I then can in turn buy an annual ocean view.


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## GregT (Apr 15, 2014)

mkahanek said:


> Thats the thing.  *Both of our names are on the deed.  *I am no legal expert.   When we book a week both our names are automatically allowed to check in.  We plan on a conference call to Marriott to begin to work on this.
> 
> That said.  I am not interest in losing any ownerwhip rights that I already have.
> 
> ...



I believe this has a decent chance of working.  Marriott will need to cooperate but I think you have the right data set to facilitate this.

I would call Lisa Gordon in Customer Advocacy at 407 238 3875.   I've talked to her many times and she was ultimately able to get the change I needed to my MOC float (converting it from a fixed week).  She's a very nice lady and wants to help owners, but be prepared to continue to push your case if she sounds skeptical about any precedent.  

Your fact pattern is a good one and I believe you have a good chance -- definitely worth pursuing.  I'm very happy to hear that both of your names are on the deed, and I think _what is key is how they have handled similar situations during a divorce_.  Hopefully, there is precedent from divorces where EOY children are created from an Annual parent.   It is a reasonable accomodation for Marriott to make, if requested by the divorcing parties, and over the years, it is possible that they have a well established path for this.

Good luck, and let us know how it goes.   I suggest you don't tell Lisa I gave you her name, I don't know how much she likes me  .

Best,

Greg


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## vacationhopeful (Apr 15, 2014)

*Situation 5* - OP asks his friend to add his name to the new purchase AFTER he pays off the "loan" (if there is a loan). Then both owners would be ELITE. Usage would be based on either the points owned. Friend PAYS for this cost - after all, OP did pay the $595 to convert to points originally.

Here is the "BUT": both parties get a written partnership agreement done as to who uses WHAT and WHEN, who pays what, and dissolving the partnership with what cost factor.


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## mkahanek (Apr 15, 2014)

vacationhopeful said:


> *Situation 5* - OP asks his friend to add his name to the new purchase AFTER he pays off the "loan" (if there is a loan). Then both owners would be ELITE. Usage would be based on either the points owned. Friend PAYS for this cost - after all, OP did pay the $595 to convert to points originally.
> 
> Here is the "BUT": both parties get a written partnership agreement done as to who uses WHAT and WHEN, who pays what, and dissolving the partnership with what cost factor.



This is interesting.   Basically it could still be used efficiently.   

In this scenario I would still agree to an EOY type use instead of what we were doing.   I get the entire villa on even years.  I can then lock off and look for good flexchange when I want to.  Or if I want a nice stay at Ko Olina simply book.   I will discuss this option.

But,  I think trying to figure out the maint fee would be tough.  Right now we received two separate invoices.  If we did this combined thing we would have to figure out how maint fee works.


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## Ron98GT (Apr 15, 2014)

mkahanek said:


> This is interesting.   Basically it could still be used efficiently.
> 
> In this scenario I would still agree to an EOY type use instead of what we were doing.   I get the entire villa on even years.  I can then lock off and look for good flexchange when I want to.  Or if I want a nice stay at Ko Olina simply book.   I will discuss this option.
> 
> But,  I think trying to figure out the maint fee would be tough.  Right now we received two separate invoices.  If we did this combined thing we would have to figure out how maint fee works.


Do DC points get their own MF?


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## Saintsfanfl (Apr 15, 2014)

mkahanek said:


> Right now we received two separate invoices.



You get two bills for half the fee each? This is surprising to me. I thought co-owned properties had one bill in both names.


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## sjsharkie (Apr 15, 2014)

Saintsfanfl said:


> You get two bills for half the fee each? This is surprising to me. I thought co-owned properties had one bill in both names.



That's because you only buy resale.

They'll probably jump through hoops if you offered to buy retail.  :hysterical:

All kidding aside, I'm also surprised that there is a mechanism to split invoices but maybe this is something not uncommon on such a big purchase.  I can see the salesperson saying that the price is not so bad if you split it in half.

-ryan


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## BocaBoy (Apr 15, 2014)

mkahanek said:


> This is interesting.   Basically it could still be used efficiently.
> 
> In this scenario I would still agree to an EOY type use instead of what we were doing.   I get the entire villa on even years.  I can then lock off and look for good flexchange when I want to.  Or if I want a nice stay at Ko Olina simply book.   I will discuss this option.
> 
> But,  I think trying to figure out the maint fee would be tough.  *Right now we received two separate invoices.*  If we did this combined thing we would have to figure out how maint fee works.



I assume you mean one bill for the week and a second bill to your friend for his DC trust points?  There would continue to be separate bills for the week and the points.  Multiple week owners get a separate bill for each week.


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## mkahanek (Apr 16, 2014)

BocaBoy said:


> I assume you mean one bill for the week and a second bill to your friend for his DC trust points?  There would continue to be separate bills for the week and the points.  Multiple week owners get a separate bill for each week.



No.  Prior to his D&C purchase we each got a bill for $900 and change.   He has an mvci account and so do I.   Our inventory in each of our accounts showed 2 EOY weeks.  
It is a very odd setup.


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## LAX Mom (Apr 16, 2014)

mkahanek said:


> No.  Prior to his D&C purchase we each got a bill for $900 and change.   He has an mvci account and so do I.   Our inventory in each of our accounts showed 2 EOY weeks.
> It is a very odd setup.



Maybe Marriott sold you 2 EOY weeks? That would make it easy to separate into 2 ownerships.

Do you have a copy of your deed?


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## vacationhopeful (Apr 16, 2014)

If he had 2 deeds, what would have been the 1st and only DC conversion charge? OP mentioned he had paid the $595 fee.


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## mkahanek (Apr 16, 2014)

LAX Mom said:


> Maybe Marriott sold you 2 EOY weeks? That would make it easy to separate into 2 ownerships.
> 
> Do you have a copy of your deed?




Actually that may be it.   I think it is two EOY weeks with both our names on it.   When I log in to MVCI there are two deed id:'s   One has even years as ineligible and one has the odd years ineligible.

So maybe this "divorce" won't be too complicated.   Basically would just need to get his name off of the even year deed and mine off the odd.


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## mkahanek (Apr 16, 2014)

Wow.  I see some EOY's on ebay go for cheap.  Like $2500?  Does that sound right for an EOY at Ko Olina?  Is Marriott snapping something that low up on ROFR?


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## sjsharkie (Apr 16, 2014)

mkahanek said:


> Wow.  I see some EOY's on ebay go for cheap.  Like $2500?  Does that sound right for an EOY at Ko Olina?  Is Marriott snapping something that low up on ROFR?



$2500 for an island view EOY is not unusual.  Marriott has a higher threshold for exercising ROFR on EOY weeks for some reason.  Not specifically at MKO, we have seen annual weeks get snapped up and EOY weeks pass even though they are less than half of the annual price.

Getting back to your question, I think $2500 is low but still market price for an EOY week at MKO.  Frankly, it is one of the easier Marriott HI properties to trade into through II.

-ryan


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## sjsharkie (Apr 16, 2014)

mkahanek said:


> Actually that may be it.   I think it is two EOY weeks with both our names on it.   When I log in to MVCI there are two deed id:'s   One has even years as ineligible and one has the odd years ineligible.
> 
> So maybe this "divorce" won't be too complicated.   Basically would just need to get his name off of the even year deed and mine off the odd.



This is easy to verify.

You should have received the recorded deeds when you purchased.  If you no longer have it, you can verify on the Hawaii county's recorder site.  The search is free, but you will need to pay to get a copy of the actual deed.

If this is the case, I would just make sure that you get in writing that both weeks will stay enrolled (well, specifically the one you are receiving) if one party is deeded off each week.  Since you only paid one enrollment fee, I'm not sure whether they would do this or not.  Then, it would be as simple as hiring a transfer company to do the transfer and notify Marriott of the change.

Good luck.

-ryan


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## BocaBoy (Apr 16, 2014)

sjsharkie said:


> Getting back to your question, I think $2500 is low but still market price for an EOY week at* MKO.* *Frankly, it is one of the easier Marriott HI properties to trade into through II.*
> -ryan



Not as easy as it used to be.  Why?  I think it is because owners at Ko Olina who want to trade tend to use the DC points option rather than II.  That is what we do because the points we get are quite high.  It is very easy to get DC reservations at Ko Olina, but II is more iffy.  I have a friend (not in DC) who owns odd years there and was unable to trade his studio back to KO through II in the even year for January/February, even with his request made a year ahead.  And he was willing to take a studio.  They ended up trading to a 1BR at KBC instead.


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## BocaBoy (Apr 16, 2014)

mkahanek said:


> Actually that may be it.   I think it is two EOY weeks with both our names on it.   When I log in to MVCI there are two deed id:'s   One has even years as ineligible and one has the odd years ineligible.
> 
> S*o maybe this "divorce" won't be too complicated.   Basically would just need to get his name off of the even year deed and mine off the odd.*



I think that is correct.  The only "problem" is that your friend will then not have enough points to be Premier because an EOY gets half the points each year for purposes of elite status qualification.  (Usage points are the full amount every other year.)  But that is not really your concern.


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## GregT (Apr 16, 2014)

mkahanek said:


> Actually that may be it.   I think it is two EOY weeks with both our names on it.   When I log in to MVCI there are two deed id:'s   One has even years as ineligible and one has the odd years ineligible.
> 
> So maybe this "divorce" won't be too complicated.   Basically would just need to get his name off of the even year deed and mine off the odd.



If that is the case, I think it will be straightforward.  Each of you would sign a Quit Claim to release your claim on each other's EOY week and you would each end up with sole ownership of an EOY.

Let us know if that becomes the case -- good luck!

Greg


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## sjsharkie (Apr 16, 2014)

BocaBoy said:


> Not as easy as it used to be.  Why?  I think it is because owners at Ko Olina who want to trade tend to use the DC points option rather than II.  That is what we do because the points we get are quite high.  It is very easy to get DC reservations at Ko Olina, but II is more iffy.  I have a friend (not in DC) who owns odd years there and was unable to trade his studio back to KO through II in the even year for January/February, even with his request made a year ahead.  And he was willing to take a studio.  They ended up trading to a 1BR at KBC instead.



I agree not as it used to be, but of the HI properties, the only one easier IMHO is KBC because of the limited kitchen/hotel conversion issue and the two other Marriott properties on Kauai.

I'd say it is 2nd easiest of the 5 Marriott HI properties (6 if you consider MOC as the 2 separate phases).

-ryan


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## mkahanek (Apr 16, 2014)

BocaBoy said:


> I think that is correct.  The only "problem" is that your friend will then not have enough points to be Premier because an EOY gets half the points each year for purposes of elite status qualification.  (Usage points are the full amount every other year.)  But that is not really your concern.



I mentioned that to him and he is already aware.  Frankly he could care less about status.   He is Alastair minute traveler. So booking ahead and using the 13 month thing isn't of any value to him.  Not sure what other Perks there are, but can honestly say, knowing him as I do, he most likely would not be interested in any of them.   He and the wife went to the presentation.  She is the one that wanted to buy and considering his pockets are very well lined he just said sure so he could get back out on the beach.


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## dioxide45 (Apr 17, 2014)

mkahanek said:


> Actually that may be it.   I think it is two EOY weeks with both our names on it.   When I log in to MVCI there are two deed id:'s   One has even years as ineligible and one has the odd years ineligible.
> 
> So maybe this "divorce" won't be too complicated.   Basically would just need to get his name off of the even year deed and mine off the odd.



The only thing I want to know, is if they sold you two EOY weeks all those years ago, why did they deed them both in the same name to create the "convoluted ownership mess" in the first place? Perhaps to save each of you the extra 10%  that Marriott charged for those weeks?


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## BocaBoy (Apr 18, 2014)

vacationhopeful said:


> If he had 2 deeds, what would have been the 1st and only DC conversion charge? OP mentioned he had paid the $595 fee.



It would have indeed been $595, because 2 EOY weeks were treated as a single week in determining whether he was a multiple week owner for purposes of calculating the DC enrollment fee.


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## bogey21 (Apr 18, 2014)

dioxide45 said:


> The only thing I want to know, is if they sold you two EOY weeks all those years ago, why did they deed them both in the same name to create the "convoluted ownership mess" in the first place? Per



My guess is that they told the salesman how they planned to use the Week when they bought it and he figured an EOY for each to use and possibly sell would work best for them.  The only downside to this is if one wanted to sell his EOY, it would require both to sign.

George


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## dioxide45 (Apr 18, 2014)

BocaBoy said:


> It would have indeed been $595, because 2 EOY weeks were treated as a single week in determining whether he was a multiple week owner for purposes of calculating the DC enrollment fee.



True, but if each of them had an EOY in their own names, each would have had to pay $595 to enroll their own weeks. So it would have cost double if they hadn't have been in the same account.



bogey21 said:


> My guess is that they told the salesman how they planned to use the Week when they bought it and he figured an EOY for each to use and possibly sell would work best for them.  The only downside to this is if one wanted to sell his EOY, it would require both to sign.
> 
> George



I just don't understand why they wouldn't have deeded separately. Though I think it was just so they could buy each for 50% of the annual price. Though they should have deeded each of them out right after buying. Though they perhaps could have lost the right to trade for MR points.

The one thing the OP needs to be careful of is that they retain enrollment in DC when the week is transferred.


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## BocaBoy (Apr 20, 2014)

dioxide45 said:


> The one thing the OP needs to be careful of is that they retain enrollment in DC when the week is transferred.


Excellent point.  My understanding is that the weeks are in a DC account in OP's name, even though title for the weeks are joint.  If that is the case, OP will retain DC enrollment of his own EOY week in his own DC account after the weeks are split.  However, his friend would have to enroll his own EOY in his own DC account after the title is changed.  His friend would have to pay the new DC enrollment fee if he had no DC account.  Because he already has a DC points account, this should eliminate a fee for doing so, but that last point should be verified.


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## dioxide45 (Apr 20, 2014)

BocaBoy said:


> Excellent point.  My understanding is that the weeks are in a DC account in OP's name, even though title for the weeks are joint.  If that is the case, OP will retain DC enrollment of his own EOY week in his own DC account after the weeks are split.  However, his friend would have to enroll his own EOY in his own DC account after the title is changed.  His friend would have to pay the new DC enrollment fee if he had no DC account.  Because he already has a DC points account, this should eliminate a fee for doing so, but that last point should be verified.



It may be that the account that both weeks are sitting in now are in a joint MVCI account with both owners names on them? They share the username and password. Meaning they will need to deed both weeks out of each others name and thus have to create two new my-vacationclub.com account? The old account in both names would disappear.


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## BocaBoy (Apr 20, 2014)

dioxide45 said:


> It may be that the account that both weeks are sitting in now are in a joint MVCI account with both owners names on them? They share the username and password. Meaning they will need to deed both weeks out of each others name and thus have to create two new my-vacationclub.com account? The old account in both names would disappear.



It could be.  I thought otherwise only because the OP said he paid the $595, not that they split it.  I know that it was possible to have a jointly owned week enrolled in a single owners' account, but I don't know of course what the OP's arrangement was.  Clearly there are still aspects of the "solution" that OP needs to resolve for it to work.


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