# A suggestion about the password problems



## JudyS (Apr 14, 2007)

I'm a psychology professor (when I'm not spending time on timeshares!) and I have a theory about why people are having trouble with the new password system. 

I think the difficulty is that people aren't being told *why* they need a BBS Member Code.  Since people are being given a new, personal password to access the Resort Databases area, they naturally expect that the new password will be used by the BBS system to recognize members, too.  To have a personal password (which they selected and can change) for posting on the BBS system, a second password (which is initially different from the BBS personal password but can be changed to match it) for accessing the Resort Databases, and yet a third password (which they do not select and can not change) for the BBS to _recognize them as a TUG member _is very confusing.  I think if people were told WHY there is a new password system, it would be much easier for them to understand what is going on. 

I am speculating that the new password system for the Members Only area was instituted in order to improve security. In other words, having an individual password for each paying TUG member makes it harder for "free riders" who haven't paid TUG dues to access the Resort Reviews.  However, the BBS software isn't capable of recognizing individual passwords [I assume], so a "group" password that is the same for everyone is needed.

If that is the case, I suggest posting a notice something like the following:

Dear TUG Member,

In the past, all TUG members used the same password to access the Resort Databases area.  However, some non-members have found out the password, allowing them to access the Resort Databases area without paying member dues.  To fix this problem, TUG is now assigning each paying member their own, personal password that will be used to access the Resort Databases area.  You can obtain your new, personal password for the Resort Databases area by clicking here [insert link.] 

Once you have obtained your new password for the Resort Databases area, you can change it to match your BBS Password.  If you prefer, you could change your BBS Password instead.  Either way, we suggest changing one or the other password so that they match. This will reduce the number of passwords that you need to remember.

Unfortunately, our BBS software is not set up to recognize individual member passwords.  Therefore, to access the Sightings Board on the BBS, and to have "Member" rather than "Guest" listed under your name, you will need to enter a group password (the "BBS Member Code") into your BBS member profile, just as you have done in past years.  This group password will be changed on April 23rd.  In order to continue being recognized as a member by the BBS software, please go to your member profile and input the new group password by that date.  You can find out what the new BBS Member Code is by clicking here [insert link.]  Once you know the new BBS Member Code, go here [insert link] to input it into your BBS Member Profile. 

Even if I am wrong about the reason for the new system, I assume there must be SOME reason why one password (the TUG Password, which is different for each member and changes only when the member wants) is used to recognize members on the Resort Databases area, and a different password (the BBS Member Code, which is the same for each member and is changed periodically by TUG) is used to recognize members on the BBS.  If people were told what this reason is, things would be much clearer.


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## BM243923 (Apr 14, 2007)

Well put Judy.

Your wording makes it clear as mud and members should have no difficulty understanding what is required of them


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## Andar (Apr 14, 2007)

I just want to say that I was one that was having trouble getting the new password to work.   I emailed  Tug and received a very prompt reply.   I think the customer service from volunteers is amazing.  Seems that everyone hates changes but I really appreciate the extra effort that goes into helping individual members


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## JudyS (Apr 14, 2007)

I emailed TUG and got a prompt reply, too -- an email saying that the problem had been fixed for me.  However, the email came across as very impersonal and made me feel like I was stupid for needing help.  I would have rather just had clearer instructions in the first place, which would have let me fix it myself.  That's why I wrote up the above suggestion.




new to scene said:


> Well put Judy.
> 
> Your wording makes it clear as mud and members should have no difficulty understanding what is required of them


"Clear as mud" usually means totally confusing -- I hope I didn't just make things *more* confusing....


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## TUGBrian (Apr 14, 2007)

wow...I would have never expected a prompt reply fixing the problem to have come across as "impersonal" and "making you feel stupid".  If it did I sincerely apologize as that was not its intent.

I still have the email that was sent to you...it clearly explained the problem you were having...and the steps I took to correct this and make things work for you.

I actually took the time out to write that email specifically for you...when I could have just said "i have fixed this for you" and gone about my day.

Perhaps I am missing something?


As for the other point...the first 2/3rds of your example is listed here

http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=43798

I was hoping to not have to alter that to add the "TUG member code" blurb inside it as there are also so many other threads surrounding that...but I suppose that would indeed help.


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## TUGBrian (Apr 14, 2007)

and as a side note....yesterday I received 1128 emails....and personally sent 609 replies.  

So...forgive me if some of them are a bit short...but I will answer each and every one of them as applicable! =)


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## Ann-Marie (Apr 14, 2007)

I had a lot of trouble, and I think I did what I was supposed to do.  However, how do I know if I am now OK with all these passwords?  I can see sightings, resort database, and am listed as a member.  Am I good to go?  I'm afraid that I will just suddenly not be able to log on to TUG.


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## Dave M (Apr 14, 2007)

Yes, you are good to go. You have the TUG Member Code in your profile.


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## BM243923 (Apr 14, 2007)

Judy

I guess I used the wrong word "mud".  I meant that it was well written and very clear to understand.

Sorry for any confusion.


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## TravlGrl (Apr 14, 2007)

I was also one of the people who emailed TUG because I couldn't figure out how to find the BBS Member Code.  I received not only a prompt reply, and not only that it was fixed for me, but with further instructions on how I could have fixed it (which helped me better understand what I was not doing correctly).  When I responded with 'thank you' (and some other ramblings) I got yet ANOTHER reply that indicated they were happy to help.

These are volunteers who spend their days at jobs like the rest of us, and if their jobs are even close to being as stressful as mine, I applaud them for taking this on.  It hasn't gone perfectly, but I guess I'm just a little surprised that anyone would suggest that these volunteers have been anything less than personal in their responses.  I _choose_ the way I feel, and don't let others _make_ me feel any particular way.

That's just my opinion, from my perspective of course.


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## Summit1231 (Apr 14, 2007)

Judy,

You make some great points about explaining *WHY* the changes are needed mixed in with the *HOW* to make changes. Keeping it in context makes people keep on track to the goals. I kept trying to take shortcuts when it seemed the percieved *WHY*  did not apply to my situation. 

The TUG staff volunteers are greatly appreciated. Don't get me wrong. Their efforts border on heroic. 

Just trying to make it easier for the next thousand people who will be wondering what happened on the week following April 23d and save these volunteers some time.  

Bob


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## janapur (Apr 14, 2007)

I am relatively new to the tug scene and am in awe of the knowledge and generosity I've experienced thus far. Tug volunteers rock, as my son would say!
My password was emailed moments after my request- and I believe it was very late at night. Now I'm wondering if I missed something, as the process seemed much easier than all of this hooplah it has received.

Jana


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## JudyS (Apr 15, 2007)

TUG Improvements! said:


> wow...I would have never expected a prompt reply fixing the problem to have come across as "impersonal" and "making you feel stupid".  If it did I sincerely apologize as that was not its intent.....



No need to apologize -- it's often really hard to tell how things are going to come across in an email.  It seems that my post came across less friendly than I intended, too, and I'm sorry for that.

As for feeling stupid, I think that was because the process assumed that I would know what email address I originally used to join TUG.  I spent quite a bit of time trying to figure out what that email address was, and felt stupid because I couldn't.  I guessed that my TUG email address was the same email address I had used for the BBS, but it wasn't. So, I guessed again, and the second email address I guessed was wrong, too.  So, I have a question.  Was there *supposed* to be some way for me to look up the email address that I used when I joined TUG?   Was there supposed to be a way for me to make my TUG email address match my BBS email address?  And, back before this system was instituted, were members told to make a note of the email address that they used when they signed up for TUG, or was member status just tracked by *name*? 

Adding to my confusion over the email was that this instruction thread  says, "To begin the process of setting up your personal login information for the Members-only Login, just enter the same TUG username and TUG Password you always have...."  This implies that there has been some sort of personal *TUG* username and password all along, but I certainly can't remember mine, if I ever had one.  Have we really had TUG usernames all along, or should this statement actually read, "enter the same *BBS* username and *BBS *Password you always have...."?

Also, I would have rather been told how to fix the email problem myself.  Was there a way for me to retrieve my TUG email?  Or is that something only administrators can do?  Is there a way for me to check my TUG email now?   After I wrote to say that I was having problems, the reply I received said that my primary email address had been changed.  However, my new email address as stated in the reply has a typo in it.  I tried to figure out how to look up the email address associated with my new TUG username and check that the email address was correct, but I can't find a way to look up the email address associated with my new account.  I did ask for my password to be mailed to me, and that email showed up. I guess that means my email address is OK?  

As for the email being impersonal -- it just feels strange getting an email from "TUG Improvements" with no name associated with it.  Is TUG Improvements one person, or a team of volunteers?  I'm not sure who I'm talking to. 



			
				TUG said:
			
		

> ...
> As for the other point...the first 2/3rds of your example is listed here
> 
> http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=43798
> ...



That thread gives instructions on _what to do_, but it's not very clear on what you are _trying to accomplish._  After going through the process, it seems to me that TUG is trying to set up an individual username and password for every person who *pays for a TUG membership*.  If I had known that in the firstplace, I would probably have guessed that the email address you wanted from me was the one I use for paying for things (my Paypal email) -- and in that case, I would have guessed the right address on the first try.  

Basically, if people correctly guess what you are trying to accomplish, then things go fine for them.  (Barring computer connection timeouts and the like.)  But, if people guess wrong as to what your goals are, then they can't figure out what you want them to do.  The instructions are really too complicated to follow if you don't know what the goal is -- even some of the admin team are getting confused when using the terms "TUG password," "BBS password,"  and "BBS member code."


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## JudyS (Apr 15, 2007)

Ben, I get it now!  Thanks very much!  Thanks, too, Bob!


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## TUGBrian (Apr 15, 2007)

fair enough...ill address your other points in detail later this evening when I have more time.

but Tug Improvements is me..and only me

Brian Rogers =)

Email from tug@tug2.net may come from other people however (like my father)


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## TUGBrian (Apr 15, 2007)

JudyS said:


> No need to apologize -- it's often really hard to tell how things are going to come across in an email.  It seems that my post came across less friendly than I intended, too, and I'm sorry for that.



I agree...glad we are good! =)



> As for feeling stupid, I think that was because the process assumed that I would know what email address I originally used to join TUG.



This is our biggest issue with TUG membership.  It is a double edged sword unfortunately.  Members not knowing what they used to join, and us not knowing what you use currently!  Very frustrating on both sides!



> I spent quite a bit of time trying to figure out what that email address was, and felt stupid because I couldn't.  I guessed that my TUG email address was the same email address I had used for the BBS, but it wasn't. So, I guessed again, and the second email address I guessed was wrong, too.  So, I have a question.  Was there *supposed* to be some way for me to look up the email address that I used when I joined TUG?   Was there supposed to be a way for me to make my TUG email address match my BBS email address?  And, back before this system was instituted, were members told to make a note of the email address that they used when they signed up for TUG, or was member status just tracked by *name*?



What we have at the moment is this form:

http://www.timeshare-users-group.com/email.html

any user may use this at any time to update their email address.



> Adding to my confusion over the email was that this instruction thread  says, "To begin the process of setting up your personal login information for the Members-only Login, just enter the same TUG username and TUG Password you always have...."  This implies that there has been some sort of personal *TUG* username and password all along, but I certainly can't remember mine, if I ever had one.  Have we really had TUG usernames all along, or should this statement actually read, "enter the same *BBS* username and *BBS *Password you always have...."?



yes it should...it is referring only the BBS login information.



> Also, I would have rather been told how to fix the email problem myself.  Was there a way for me to retrieve my TUG email?  Or is that something only administrators can do?  Is there a way for me to check my TUG email now?



You can either use the above form...or email me at tug@tug2.net and I will happily provide it to you.




> After I wrote to say that I was having problems, the reply I received said that my primary email address had been changed.  However, my new email address as stated in the reply has a typo in it.  I tried to figure out how to look up the email address associated with my new TUG username and check that the email address was correct, but I can't find a way to look up the email address associated with my new account.  I did ask for my password to be mailed to me, and that email showed up. I guess that means my email address is OK?



Was likely just me typing too fast going through all those emails from that day...but yes you can always go to the forgot password page and type in whatever email address you think is valid...if it is the one on file your password will be emailed to it instantly (guess thats a cheap way to quickly test)



> As for the email being impersonal -- it just feels strange getting an email from "TUG Improvements" with no name associated with it.  Is TUG Improvements one person, or a team of volunteers?  I'm not sure who I'm talking to.



I have been meaning to update the sig in emails to be something more helpful...but rest assured you did get a personal response from moi! =)





> That thread gives instructions on _what to do_, but it's not very clear on what you are _trying to accomplish._  After going through the process, it seems to me that TUG is trying to set up an individual username and password for every person who *pays for a TUG membership*.  If I had known that in the firstplace, I would probably have guessed that the email address you wanted from me was the one I use for paying for things (my Paypal email) -- and in that case, I would have guessed the right address on the first try.



We are working on a new information post that will address the why here shortly!



> Basically, if people correctly guess what you are trying to accomplish, then things go fine for them.  (Barring computer connection timeouts and the like.)  But, if people guess wrong as to what your goals are, then they can't figure out what you want them to do.  The instructions are really too complicated to follow if you don't know what the goal is -- even some of the admin team are getting confused when using the terms "TUG password," "BBS password,"  and "BBS member code."



Are addressing the labeling of the code as well!


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## JudyS (Apr 15, 2007)

Thanks, Brian!


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## JudyS (Apr 15, 2007)

Oops, it turns out that I was posting at the same time that you were, so I do have some more questions! 



			
				TUG Improvements! said:
			
		

> This is our biggest issue with TUG membership.  It is a double edged sword unfortunately.  Members not knowing what they used to join, and us not knowing what you use currently!  Very frustrating on both sides!



Am I correct in thinking that keeping track of paying memberships via email addresses is new, and that memberships used to be tracked by name?  If so, it seems that what a lot of people really need is a way to link a current email address to their real name. 

While I was having problems figuring out what email I had used for TUG, I did come across the form that you mention.  However, it told me to put in "Your old email address (required)."  Since I have used different email addresses for different parts of TUG, and the form doesn't state what it means by "old email address," I couldn't use the form.  In other words, I didn't know if the form was asking for my BBS email address, the email address I use for paying for things, or something else.   At any rate, I actually haven't changed email addresses at all; my problem was just that I use one address for paypal and a different one for forums such as the TUG BBBs, and didn't know which one was needed for the new registration process.

The "email update" form that you reference is a way to contact the administration staff so that *they* can change the email address on file for a member -- is that correct?  Unless I am missing something, there isn't a way for TUG members to check or change their *TUG* email address themselves, the way they can check and change their *BBS *email address themselves, is there?  

Thanks again!


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## TUGBrian (Apr 15, 2007)

JudyS said:


> Oops, it turns out that I was posting at the same time that you were, so I do have some more questions!



no worries...thats what im here for!




> Am I correct in thinking that keeping track of paying memberships via email addresses is new, and that memberships used to be tracked by name?  If so, it seems that what a lot of people really need is a way to link a current email address to their real name.



We "can" search by name...but the primary key (unique identifier) for all membership accounts is email address.

While we have the capability to store multiple email addresses in separate fields in the membership database...it will only recognize and reply to the PRIMARY email on file with your password.

Conversely if you email me under any of your email addresses (using you as an example) they are all "linked" to your membership now and your record will be easily found.  Not the case with the ratings/reviews system..or the BBS for that matter.

We keep the TUG membership database offline and only place online the information necessary to allow you access (email/given name/etc).

Hope this makes sense!



> While I was having problems figuring out what email I had used for TUG, I did come across the form that you mention.  However, it told me to put in "Your old email address (required)."  Since I have used different email addresses for different parts of TUG, and the form doesn't state what it means by "old email address," I couldn't use the form.  In other words, I didn't know if the form was asking for my BBS email address, the email address I use for paying for things, or something else.   At any rate, I actually haven't changed email addresses at all; my problem was just that I use one address for paypal and a different one for forums such as the TUG BBBs, and didn't know which one was needed for the new registration process.



fair enough...you could actually type in anything there...but the important part is to fill out the form completely..so that I not only have an old email address to look up, but a full name, zip code, street address..etc etc to attempt to find your membership.

What I cannot help with is emails from unknown email addresses that just say "I cant log in...help!"  etc etc...as there is nothing in that allowing me to find out who the person is!





> The "email update" form that you reference is a way to contact the administration staff so that *they* can change the email address on file for a member -- is that correct?  Unless I am missing something, there isn't a way for TUG members to check or change their *TUG* email address themselves, the way they can check and change their *BBS *email address themselves, is there?
> 
> Thanks again!



nope...nothing at the moment.  I can however put on the "wishlist" that your current primary email address be displayed up at the top of your "my tug" box when you log into the ratings reviews section (along with your expiration date/bbs verification code).

Would that work?


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## Makai Guy (Apr 15, 2007)

JudyS - thanks for providing feedback on exactly what you found confusing.  Earlier this morning I revised the main post to try to deal with these issues.

Further feedback is always welcome.


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## JudyS (Apr 16, 2007)

TUG Improvements! said:


> ... I can however put on the "wishlist" that your current primary email address be displayed up at the top of your "my tug" box when you log into the ratings reviews section (along with your expiration date/bbs verification code).
> 
> Would that work?


Well, I mostly was just asking because I wondered if I had missed some way of fixing my email problem myself.  I now know what email address I have on file at TUG, so I'm good.  But, having this information available might help reduce the numbers of TUGgers who run into email problems down the road. 





Makai Guy said:


> JudyS - thanks for providing feedback on exactly what you found confusing.  Earlier this morning I revised the main post to try to deal with these issues.
> 
> Further feedback is always welcome.


You're very welcome, Doug!


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## "Roger" (Apr 16, 2007)

Makai Guy said:


> ...
> 
> Further feedback is always welcome.



I will very tentatively offer two somewhat linked suggestions.  Per usual, no offense if you do not think that they will help.  (Having had to put various instructions into writing, I know how difficult it can be. Thus, I offer the following suggestions with some trepidation.)

First of all, I think it would help to have a single sticky at the top of the board labeled, “TUG password instructions.”  This sticky should be _locked_, so that any subsequent discussion occurs elsewhere.  Finally this sticky should be considered permanent – not something meant to address just the current changeover period.  (What I would put into this sticky is part of my second suggestion.  However, you might want to adopt just this suggestion.)

Secondly, it is obvious that the single thing that created the most difficulty was that people were trying to put their personal password into their profile.  Part of the reason for this was that there was a single post that explained how to change one’s password, that one might consider using the same password to enter two different areas of TUG, instructions on how to change one’s password in the review and ratings area, and finally instructions about how to place a separate password into one’s profile.  As people tried to carry out the first set of tasks, they simply overlooked that they needed to use a different password in their profile.  Having all of these instructions together (in my opinion) is a mistake.

What I would do is have one global message (in the sticky mentioned above) about the need/desirability for having two passwords – one personal and one set by the moderators.  I would then have clickable links taking you to two different sets of instructions.  Since the person who follows the instructions is taken to two different locations, you will have an excellent opportunity to emphasize that in the one area, you are giving instructions for how to set one’s personal password, and, in the other area, how to place the universal password into one’s profile. To illustrate, the global message might say something like this (somewhat hastily written -- open to modification):

_As members of TUG, you will need to use two passwords. (Fortunately, you will only have to memorize one of them).

1.	One of the two passwords will be a personal password of your own choosing.  This is the password that you are to use when you log onto the bulletin board and also to enter the reviews and ratings areas.  (Technically, you could establish two different passwords, one for the bulletin board and one for the reviews area, but we strongly recommend against this.)  If you need help establishing this password, changing your password so that it is the same for both areas, or simply want to choose a new password, go here.  [Clickable link.  For now, that link can take you to a page that has Doug’s first and third sets of instructions.  At some later date, those instructions might be modified.]


2.	Your second password is one that you will share with all the paid members of TUG.  You are to place this password into your personal profile.  Once it is there, you will be listed as a member (and not a guest) whenever you post on the bulletin board.  Also, you will have access to the private areas of the bulletin board that are meant only for members (for example, the Sightings board).  You will not have to memorize this second password nor reenter every time it is needed.  Once it is in your personal profile, you can forget about its existence.  In order to find out what this password is and how to insert it into your profile, go here.  [Clickable link – one that takes you to JUST part two of Doug’s current instructions.]_


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## Bill4728 (Apr 16, 2007)

> . Your second password is one that you will share with all the paid members of TUG. You are to place this password into your personal profile. Once it is there, you will be listed as a member (and not a guest) whenever you post on the bulletin board. Also, you will have access to the private areas of the bulletin board that are meant only for members (for example, the Sightings board). You will not have to memorize this second password nor reenter every time it is needed. Once it is in your personal profile, you can forget about its existence. In order to find out what this password is and how to insert it into your profile, go here. [Clickable link – one that takes you to JUST part two of Doug’s current instructions.]



Good but I'd change all reference to password to BBS meber codeword like this:

The second password isn't a password at all but a BBS member code word which is used by all paid members of TUG. The second BBS member codeword is one that you will share with all the paid members of TUG. You are to place this codeword into your personal profile. Once it is there, you will be listed as a member (and not a guest) whenever you post on the bulletin board. Also, you will have access to the private areas of the bulletin board that are meant only for members (for example, the Sightings board). You will not have to memorize this BBS member codeword nor reenter every time it is needed. Once it is in your personal profile, you can forget about its existence. In order to find out what this BBS member codeword is and how to insert it into your profile, go here. [Clickable link – one that takes you to JUST part two of Doug’s current instructions.]


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## "Roger" (Apr 17, 2007)

Nice improvement.


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## spike (Apr 17, 2007)

TUG Improvements! said:


> yesterday I received 1128 emails...



TUG is a great site...Just an observation, not a snarky comment. I'd take that as a clue and start over.


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## TUGBrian (Apr 17, 2007)

haha...not all of them were user complaints...sorry if it came out that way!

I get roughly 1000 a day on average...give or take.


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