# 66K for MVC is it worth it?



## Nolathyme (Nov 14, 2013)

I copied the below from another forum that I am a member of. I  don't know much about Marriott, can anyone help answer the post?




We have a client who purchased a $66k "time-share" last week and has 10 days to rescind his decision.  I am not familiar with the Marriott Vacation Club, but it provides points that can be used for airfare, resorts, Ritz Carlton, Marriott Hotels, etc.  The points can be rolled over or converted to Marriott Rewards points if not used during the year.  Annual cost is $3,200 per year.  I'm trying to determine what dollar value the 6,500 annual points give him.  These are not 6,500 marriott rewards points.  Client is wealthy and has hard time spending money on he and wife and family, so the intangible benefit of taking great upscale vacations is appealing to both he and I from a holistic planning perspective.

Curious if anybody has any experience with this new twist on a "time share" type of purchase.  Thanks.


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## StevenTing (Nov 14, 2013)

Rescind.  This almost appears more than developer pricing.  Developer pricing with discount would/should be closer to $60k.  If he were able to find resale he would be spending about $30k.


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## Bill4728 (Nov 14, 2013)

YES  Rescind   

BUT if he does want to join MVC I'd buy just enough point to get into the club  (1500 pts) then add points as needed by renting points from other owners.  You can rent points for one time use for just a little more than the annual fees and have no up front cost and no ongoing annual MFs.  

Example;  Buy 1500 MVC pts (~$15K) then rent from a current owner another 1500 pts (~$900 (1500 pts *$0.60/pt))  and use the 3000 pts (your 1.5K & the rented 1.5K)  to reserve a week at Newport Coast almost any time from late Sept to mid May.

He can also buy a resale week from the Marriott resale dept and buy pts at the same time. Doing so will get him a lot more pts for less money and the MFs will also be a lot lower.


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## gerryburguera (Nov 14, 2013)

Rescind immediately.  The strategy of establishing a small 'base' account and renting points from other owners as pointed out is an economically wise proposal.


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## Nolathyme (Nov 14, 2013)

swj said:


> I copied the below from another forum that I am a member of. I  don't know much about Marriott, can anyone help answer the post?
> 
> 
> 
> ...




So what type of trip could they get for 6,500 points during prime time?
How many points is Newport Coast in July?


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## Passepartout (Nov 14, 2013)

As others have said, $66,000 is WAAAY too much money to spend on any timeshare today. Even if this client is beaucoup wealthy, I never met a wealthy person who was against getting a deal...  I agree with rescinding this 'deal'  then contacting the Marriott or Starwood resale department. They will pay more than they would scrounging here or on eBay, but it would likely close more quickly and give the satisfaction of buying from the source. There may even be some additional perks thrown in. 

One argument we hear, and you may too, from your client is the "But this is for a 'NEW' one, not second hand". Trust us, ALL timeshares are used. There is no such thing as a new one after it's been open for a day. Someone slept in the bed the night before even a retail buyer arrives, and somebody else will be in the unit after he leaves. So the mantra here is, BUY RESALE, SAVE THOUSANDS!

Jim


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## BocaBoy (Nov 14, 2013)

swj said:


> Client is wealthy and has hard time spending money on he and wife and family, so the intangible benefit of taking great upscale vacations is appealing to both he and I from a holistic planning perspective.



I think most of the responses to your question ignored this point.  People here are so programmed to automatically reject any approach that is not the most cost conscious.  If your client is wealthy and the points program is appealing, I would not necessarily fool around with the hassle of buying resale, renting points, buying a resale week in tandem with points, or any of that stuff.  Sometimes the most simple approach is the best.  It is certainly the easiest.

This statement does not mean I disagree with the advice you have received.  I don't.  It just means that there is a type of buyer out there who might find buying points direct from MVCI to be attractive.  And that person might be your client.  Kind of like a jewelry buyer who prefers to buy from Tiffany's.


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## CO skier (Nov 14, 2013)

swj said:


> So what type of trip could they get for 6,500 points during prime time?
> How many points is Newport Coast in July?



According to page 37 (Newport Coast) of this:

http://tug2.net/timeshare_advice/2013-14chart.pdf

- a prime summer week would cost 4725 points (4725/6500*$3200=$2326)

- a July 4th week would cost 5675 points (5675/6500*$3200=$2794)

-a prime winter week (December) would cost 4950 points (4950/6500*$3200=$2437)

A Marriott Newport Coast Platinum summer floating week recently sold on EBay for about $6700, including closing and transfer costs.  Maintenance fees are quoted as $961.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/MARRIOTT-NE...51164396359?pt=Timeshares&hash=item233219a347

A Marriott weeks owner can join Interval International for $89/year plus approx. $150 for an exchange.  Marriott owners also enjoy a preference period in II for other desirable Marriott exchanges.

I would recommend the holistic approach of rescinding and saving $60,000 plus more than $1000/year compared to Destination Club points and buying a (resale) weeks ownership with Marriott to take some great upscale vacations.


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## GaryDouglas (Nov 14, 2013)

*Cash, the ultimate freedom*

I'd rather use the money on going where I want, when I want, not having to worry about whether I can get into a particular resort for a particular week. That $66k would get you 16 years worth of one week stays at Maui Ocean Club at current rates (Redweek), and the $38K+ you'd save in maintenance fees (maintenance fees only go up through time)  during that time can be used to keep on going for another 10 years. More feedom and 26 years of vacations. If he has enough money to burn and not missed, that's one thing, will he mind lossing his freedom?


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## taffy19 (Nov 15, 2013)

GaryDouglas said:


> I'd rather use the money on going where I want, when I want, not having to worry about whether I can get into a particular resort for a particular week. That $66k would get you 16 years worth of one week stays at Maui Ocean Club at current rates (Redweek), and the $38K+ you'd save in maintenance fees (maintenance fees only go up through time) during that time can be used to keep on going for another 10 years. More feedom and 26 years of vacations. If he has enough money to burn and not missed, that's one thing, will he mind lossing his freedom?


I so agree with you.  Cash is king and owning or buying an expensive timeshare or points today is a risk if the economy will go down from here.  

It may be different for a young family who have many years ahead of them or a wealthy family that do not have to worry about money at all.  JMHO.


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## mjm1 (Nov 15, 2013)

BocaBoy said:


> I think most of the responses to your question ignored this point.  People here are so programmed to automatically reject any approach that is not the most cost conscious.  If your client is wealthy and the points program is appealing, I would not necessarily fool around with the hassle of buying resale, renting points, buying a resale week in tandem with points, or any of that stuff.  Sometimes the most simple approach is the best.  It is certainly the easiest.
> 
> This statement does not mean I disagree with the advice you have received.  I don't.  It just means that there is a type of buyer out there who might find buying points direct from MVCI to be attractive.  And that person might be your client.  Kind of like a jewelry buyer who prefers to buy from Tiffany's.



I agree with BocaBoy on this. While I look for the most cost effective deals, I know some very wealthy people who don't want the real or perceived hassles of buying from alternative sources. They have the money for these luxury purchases and don't spending it to get what they want.

Marriott has high end resorts and nice locations, so I can easily see this working out for them if that's what they want.

All of the feedback should be considered and then make a decision that works best for the OP.  The memories and experiences are priceless.


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## Nolathyme (Nov 15, 2013)

What are some other examples of vacations going through Marriott Vacation Club direct can they get for 6,500 points during prime time?


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## m61376 (Nov 15, 2013)

There are several different things to consider here, besides whether or not it makes financial sense to buy 6500 points directly. Where is your client looking to go? Was 6500 a random number, or were they buying with the idea that they'd like to go someplace specific? For example, if they have in mind a Christmas week skiing or lying on the beach in the Caribbean, for example, they may find it hard to reserve those weeks because many are owned and not in the trust, and many legacy week owners will use or rent them rather than exchange them. So before they make that kind of a purchase, if we knew more about their general travel goals it might make it easier to advise.

If they have any doubts, they should rescind now, learn a bit more about things, and then proceed. They can always buy next week or next month, but have 10 days to rescind, and 65K is a lot of money for most people.

The other issue is how much do they want to be bothered? Planning and using 6500 points requires more work than simply booking on Marriott.com. And points, while increasing one's flexibility, also come with the baggage of having to try to figure out how to best utilize them and not have points lying fallow every year. So a buyer needs to be prepared for some effort, and be aware that it requires pre-planning and possibly wait lists or multiple calls, etc., juggling points usage and banking and/or borrowing to achieve what you want. Not that it's hard, but it's not cut and dry like he/she may be used to. I'm not sure that those who are in the position to shell out 65K are necessarily prepared for the accompanying hassle.


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## StevenTing (Nov 15, 2013)

Coincidentally there is a person on VPE that is trying to sell their points for medical reasons.  Appears they paid the same price.  Unfortunately for them they have it on a loan.  

My guess is that 6500 points is probably a package deal that is advertised.


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## Passepartout (Nov 15, 2013)

I have no quarrel with a person of means buying at full-bore retail if that's what they want to do. But if the objective is to be able to just pick up the phone, call Marriott and book a location of their choosing at last minute using their retail points, it just won't work. Those retail points are worth exactly the same as a bunch of points bought for 1/10th as much on eBay. There is no priority for either scenario. There is a learning curve to know how to use these in any efficient way.

If instant luxury vacations is the objective, $66,000 will buy either a fractional, or a heckuva lot of great weeks at www.vrbo.com.

Jim


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## bastroum (Nov 15, 2013)

No, it's not worth it. This person would be much better off buying "weeks" re-sale for that kind of money. I think the points system works much better for Legacy owners than I do for new points buyers. The combination of weeks and points makes the Marriott system extremely flexible to use.


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## nakyak (Nov 15, 2013)

swj said:


> I copied the below from another forum that I am a member of. I  don't know much about Marriott, can anyone help answer the post?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



There is no doubt to rescind this purchase until the buyer can ultimately determine if he/she will get the value from the purchase.

Wealthy or not there is a heck of a lot better that you can do for 65,000 than a Marriott Vacations Club Point ownership.


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## Nolathyme (Nov 15, 2013)

Thanks for all the great insight.

I don't know the buyer , I'm just trying to help someone out on another forum.

Can anyone give me ball park MVC points needed for Hawaii prime time? Park City ski prime time? Aruba prime time? Costa del Sol prime time?


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## bastroum (Nov 15, 2013)

swj said:


> Thanks for all the great insight.
> 
> I don't know the buyer , I'm just trying to help someone out on another forum.
> 
> Can anyone give me ball park MVC points needed for Hawaii prime time? Park City ski prime time? Aruba prime time? Costa del Sol prime time?



I am staying at the Maui Ocean Club, in the older section, 1BD Ocean View, for 13 nights beginning 12/20/13 for 9,300 points.


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## Fasttr (Nov 15, 2013)

swj said:


> Thanks for all the great insight.
> 
> I don't know the buyer , I'm just trying to help someone out on another forum.
> 
> Can anyone give me ball park MVC points needed for Hawaii prime time? Park City ski prime time? Aruba prime time? Costa del Sol prime time?



Here is a link to the current points chart.  Seek and you shall find.    https://www.my-vacationclub.com/common/vc/en-us/pdfs/enrollment_legal_docs/points_charts.pdf


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## csxjohn (Nov 15, 2013)

swj said:


> Thanks for all the great insight.
> 
> I don't know the buyer , I'm just trying to help someone out on another forum.
> 
> Can anyone give me ball park MVC points needed for Hawaii prime time? Park City ski prime time? Aruba prime time? Costa del Sol prime time?



Why not direct that person here and cut out the middle man?


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## Nolathyme (Nov 15, 2013)

csxjohn said:


> Why not direct that person here and cut out the middle man?



I did, but as you see they did not post the question. I have sent them a link to view all the great replies.


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## aka Julie (Nov 15, 2013)

swj said:


> I did, but as you see they did not post the question. I have sent them a link to view all the great replies.



IMO if they are not willing to do their homework regarding their purchase, they won't be willing to "put in the time" to maximize their timeshare purchase (either points or weeks).  There is a learning curve and it takes time and patience.

If money is not an issue, why don't they just pay the price for whatever vacation they want to take at the time and forget any timeshare purchase.


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## jtdillian (Nov 15, 2013)

*one million rewards*

I am curious what did they get as a purchase incentive? My brother in law purchased the same amount and he received close to a 1,000,000 rewards. Of course he had to use the Marriott visa to get some of that. I think the potential value of that many rewards to use could reduce a big chunk of that $66k! Anyone who really knows how to use rewards such as for travel packages flying first class feel the same?


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## Passepartout (Nov 15, 2013)

swj said:


> I did, but as you see they did not post the question. I have sent them a link to view all the great replies.



Just advise them not to wait beyond the rescission period if that's what they deem wise. *The $66,000 'deal' will always be available*- regardless of what a salesperson tells them. But they only get a chance to back away and 'learn the ropes' before buying for a short time. 

Jim


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## dioxide45 (Nov 16, 2013)

As indicated, developer points are very expensive. That said, since the OP is asking for these other people, it doesn't seem like they have the interest or desire to seek out the answers themselves. If simplicity is what they are wanting, nothing beats buying from Marriott I suppose. They have the ability to call Owner Services and reserve what is available. they would probably be fairly successful if they are not looking for peak season at sold out resorts.

If they don't want to take the time to learn about their purchase now, they may find that they won't have the time later to learn how to use it. They may end up frustrated or do quite well. There are hundreds of thousands of owners that don't read TUG that are quite happy with their Marriott ownerships.


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## MOXJO7282 (Nov 16, 2013)

Some people just don't care about saving money either because they have money to burn or don't have the lifestyle to put time into researching the best deal or plan in advance which is required to get the best deals.

I have a friend whose wife inherited alot of money so they take these great trips every year.  They go to Maui and pay full freight through Marriott or Hyatt or similar high end resorts.   What's even crazier is they don't even sign up for reward points. They'll spend $10k without blinking an eye. I told him how he could save a ton by using redweek or at the least signing up for points and he just dismisses it as not worth his trouble while at the same time marveling on how I can get my family 1st class to Maui for less than half of what he pays for coach and less than OF. 

I think he's coming around though because he went to China with me and saw how I got upgraded at the JW Marriott in Shanghai to a corner unit city view on the concierge level and he signed up with Marriott before we left. Too late to get the Marriott Visa points like I did but its a start.


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## swaits (Nov 16, 2013)

Economists call this diminishing marginal utility. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marginal_utility


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## DKT (Nov 17, 2013)

dioxide45 said:


> As indicated, developer points are very expensive. That said, since the OP is asking for these other people, it doesn't seem like they have the interest or desire to seek out the answers themselves. If simplicity is what they are wanting, nothing beats buying from Marriott I suppose. They have the ability to call Owner Services and reserve what is available. they would probably be fairly successful if they are not looking for peak season at sold out resorts.
> 
> If they don't want to take the time to learn about their purchase now, they may find that they won't have the time later to learn how to use it. They may end up frustrated or do quite well. There are hundreds of thousands of owners that don't read TUG that are quite happy with their Marriott ownerships.



I totally agree with this.....


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## Ron98GT (Nov 17, 2013)

Bill4728 said:


> YES  Rescind
> 
> BUT if he does want to join MVC I'd buy just enough point to get into the club  (1500 pts) then add points as needed by renting points from other owners.  You can rent points for one time use for just a little more than the annual fees and have no up front cost and no ongoing annual MFs.
> 
> ...


Not familiar with MVC points.  Is there still any kind of yearly fee attached to the points, i.e. maintenance type of yearly fee?


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## Fasttr (Nov 17, 2013)

Ron98GT said:


> Not familiar with MVC points.  Is there still any kind of yearly fee attached to the points, i.e. maintenance type of yearly fee?



$0.45/point MF's plus $175 dues annually.


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## willfly13 (Nov 18, 2013)

It sounds like he/she has purchased a premium membership in the Asia Pacific area.  So, each year he probably has 66,000 or more points to use which is about 2 weeks of time.  The points are not the same as the USA system and, if he is in the AP system, he has a limited number of resorts available without additional fees.  Having a premium membership will give him/her more options, however, than a regular member.

Worth it?  It might be, but purchasing one from someone selling on this website would certainly be cheaper.


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## Fasttr (Nov 18, 2013)

willfly13 said:


> It sounds like he/she has purchased a premium membership in the Asia Pacific area.  So, each year he probably has 66,000 or more points to use which is about 2 weeks of time.  The points are not the same as the USA system and, if he is in the AP system, he has a limited number of resorts available without additional fees.  Having a premium membership will give him/her more options, however, than a regular member.
> 
> Worth it?  It might be, but purchasing one from someone selling on this website would certainly be cheaper.



The Gent in the OP's post purchased 6,500 points and paid $66,000 for them.  They are clearly U.S points, not AP points.


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## Passepartout (Nov 18, 2013)

Well, the OP's client made his purchase sometime prior to 11/14. Today is the 18th. At least 5 days of his 10 allowed to rescind have passed. Hope he doesn't miss his chance.

Jim


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## larryallen (Nov 18, 2013)

How can everybody be so quick to say rescind without knowing the person?  It's really easy to pay retail, book through Marriott, and not worry about it.  A heck of a lot simpler than buying resale and doing trades. If money is not an issue then this seems like a great purchase.


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## dioxide45 (Nov 18, 2013)

larryallen said:


> How can everybody be so quick to say rescind without knowing the person?  It's really easy to pay retail, book through Marriott, and not worry about it.  A heck of a lot simpler than buying resale and doing trades. If money is not an issue then this seems like a great purchase.



The advice to rescind is always good advice. You only have a few days to rescind. You can always go back again and buy what was bought initially. You can't ever get out of the deal once the rescission period is over. Until someone takes the time to do the research, they need to rescind their purchase and then make an informed purchase.


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## m61376 (Nov 19, 2013)

larryallen said:


> How can everybody be so quick to say rescind without knowing the person?  It's really easy to pay retail, book through Marriott, and not worry about it.  A heck of a lot simpler than buying resale and doing trades. If money is not an issue then this seems like a great purchase.



Like Dioxide said, it's better to know what you're buying and buy later if you want to than regret your purchase. You are right in that if money isn't an issue buying directly is easier. However, if money isn't an issue renting, either privately or more expensively through Marriott is even easier. If the purchaser isn't prepared for the machine tins of making point reservations, then regardless of being able to afford the purchase, it may be a decision that he/ she regrets.

I think points, while in some ways easier than weeks, have their own set of headaches, and take work and effort to fully utilize your ownership. Unlike those here, I don't think many, if not most, owners, really enjoy putting in the time and effort needed, and I'd venture to guess that at the end of the year a significant number of points just expire.


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## Ron98GT (Nov 19, 2013)

m61376 said:


> Like Dioxide said, it's better to know what you're buying and buy later if you want to than regret your purchase. You are right in that if money isn't an issue buying directly is easier. However, if money isn't an issue renting, either privately or more expensively through Marriott is even easier. If the purchaser isn't prepared for the machine tins of making point reservations, then regardless of being able to afford the purchase, it may be a decision that he/ she regrets.
> 
> I think points, while in some ways easier than weeks, have their own set of headaches, and take work and effort to fully utilize your ownership. Unlike those here, I don't think many, if not most, owners, really enjoy putting in the time and effort needed, and I'd venture to guess that at the end of the year a significant number of points just expire.


Convenient for Marriott.  Buyer pays $1/point.  Buyer pays 45 cents/point/year for MF's on those points. Buyer pays $175/year for dues?  Buyer receives no property.  Marriott retains all property rights.  Then if buyer walks away from their points, Marriott just resells them.

I like points, as long as they are attached to real property rights.  I like my RCI Points.  And I like my HGVC points.  I especially like the HGVC points system and wish that Marriott would have modeled their system on it.  But they came up with this half-arsed system because they saw the potential of making more money and maintaining all real property rights.  They could have used a combination of HGVC and DVC, where the property rights revert back to Marriott after 20 or 30 years?

-- Just my opinion


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