# Skydive Kauai Plane Crash



## slip (May 24, 2016)

Unfortunately, there was a plane crash yesterday and the instructor that my wife was with in February was one of the victims in the crash. She's pretty shocked right now. He was only 26, the same age as our son.

http://thegardenisland.com/news/local/an-incredibly-sad-day/article_3fd06377-77ef-53de-9910-30561ce58749.html?mode=jqm


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## taterhed (May 24, 2016)

I wondered.


 risky business.  Sorry for the sad news.


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## DeniseM (May 24, 2016)

When I heard about that, I thought of you, too.


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## slip (May 24, 2016)

It may have hit DW a little harder because we're on an exchange right now and I brought my FireTVstick and all our pictures are on there. We were showing the skydive pictures to our daughter and I found out a few minutes later when they came back from getting ice cream. So she found out about 15 minutes after watching the video and looking at the pictures. She's been thinking about it all day. 

She always said she wouldn't bungee jump so I don't think there's much stuff like that, that she hasn't done already. So maybe the dare devil stuff may be done.


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## DaveNV (May 24, 2016)

Jeff, that's so sad to hear.  I immediately wondered if it was the same outfit she went with.

Dave


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## bjones9942 (May 25, 2016)

As someone who loves to skydive, accidents like this have special impact.  Let me say though, that skydiving is safer than driving - and this was a plane accident, not a skydiving accident.  Not that it isn't just as tragic.


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## Henry M. (May 25, 2016)

According to the Hawaii State Department of Health, motor vehicle crashes are the 4th leading cause of unintentional fatal injuries to Hawaii residents and average 87 deaths per year (counting cars and motorcycles together). The leading cause of unintentional fatal injuries in Hawaii are falls, averaging 108/yr. There are 159 suicides/year. There are far fewer aviation-related deaths. They don't even make it into the list of leading causes of death or accidents. They do cause bigger headlines, since they are still fairly rare.


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## tompalm (May 25, 2016)

bjones9942 said:


> As someone who loves to skydive, accidents like this have special impact.  Let me say though, that skydiving is safer than driving - and this was a plane accident, not a skydiving accident.  Not that it isn't just as tragic.



Five people in a Cessena 182. I believe that aircraft was made for four people and was overloaded. Even if that plane had taken 5 people many times before, the weight might have been too much or too far aft on this trip. From the wreckage, it looks like the plane did not have forward speed and it came straight down on impact. It will be interesting to see what comes out of the accident report. Anyone that goes up in the air on these skydiving runs should think twice before jumping in a full plane. If the accident was caused by engine failure, the pilot should have been able to maintain forward speed and glided safely to water or land. Either way, the skydivers were victims. I hope that company had a lot of insurance.


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## bjones9942 (May 25, 2016)

That would be a question for jump pilots - remember, there typically aren't seats in a plane used for jumps other than the pilot's, nor is there luggage other than the chutes and harnesses.  There are also weight restrictions on the skydivers.  So the net effect of one more body, against the reduction in other areas, may have evened things out.  Again though, this was a plane accident, not a skydiving accident.  Blame will fall where the FAA determines.



tompalm said:


> Five people in a Cessena 182. I believe that aircraft was made for four people and was overloaded. Even if that plane had taken 5 people many times before, the weight might have been too much or too far aft on this trip. From the wreckage, it looks like the plane did not have forward speed and it came straight down on impact. It will be interesting to see what comes out of the accident report. Anyone that goes up in the air on these skydiving runs should think twice before jumping in a full plane. If the accident was caused by engine failure, the pilot should have been able to maintain forward speed and glided safely to water or land. Either way, the skydivers were victims. I hope that company had a lot of insurance.


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## SmithOp (May 25, 2016)

Eyewitness reports on Hawaii TV reported the engine sputtered then died on takeoff.


Sent from my iPad Mini 4 using Tapatalk


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## Kapolei (May 25, 2016)

dead engine + empty plane ≠ dead engine + fully loaded plane

The NTSB should end up with a fairly definitive report.  There have been several Cessna Caravan incidents in Hawaii in recent years with a couple involving fatalities.  This is significantly smaller plane than a Caravan.  Everyone got to make their own decisions on the level of risk you want to take.  But no matter what anyone wants to say, flying in a small aircraft is substantially different risk than driving a car.  And it is an added risk.  Because unlike the car ride, you do not need to participate in this activity.


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## Kapolei (May 26, 2016)

emuyshondt said:


> According to the Hawaii State Department of Health, motor vehicle crashes are the 4th leading cause of unintentional fatal injuries to Hawaii residents and average 87 deaths per year (counting cars and motorcycles together). The leading cause of unintentional fatal injuries in Hawaii are falls, averaging 108/yr. There are 159 suicides/year. There are far fewer aviation-related deaths. They don't even make it into the list of leading causes of death or accidents. They do cause bigger headlines, since they are still fairly rare.



I hate stats.  But here goes:

There is a near zero percent chance of getting killed in a general aviation accident if you never participate in that activity.  (I will concede that you could get hit on the ground by a plane that crashes through your roof)

Almost everyone in Hawaii (like 99.99%) does not participate in general aviation.  So comparing deaths from something that 99.9% people participate in (driving in a car) to deaths from something that 99.99% do not participate in (flying in a GA aircraft) makes no sense to me whatsoever.

But I am not here to argue. Believe whatever makes you feel good.


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## Henry M. (May 26, 2016)

My point was not that there is no risk in flying or engaging in aviation activities, but rather that those activities are not the most dangerous or irresponsible things you can do. Just swimming in the ocean can result in significant injuries or death. I feel I am just as likely to die or be hurt during my daily activities as I am from an ocassional ride in a small airplane. I drive so much more than I fly that overall i am just as likely to get hurt either way. I prefer to do things I enjoy than lock myself up for fear that something might happen if I walk out the door of my house. 

I'm not trying to be argumentative! I'm just pointing out that certain events cause very emotional reactions, when in the grand scheme of things, they really aren't all that much worse than other activities we undertake out in nature and the world.


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## "Roger" (May 26, 2016)

While it is hard to  get  good comparisons (just for starters, when you are talking non-commercial planes that could mean corporate  jet vs. private aircraft vs. tourist attraction ), it appears that  the  risk of dying on a single flight on a small plane is about 10 to  20 times higher than  on an single  car ride.


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## Kapolei (May 26, 2016)

I am not suggesting that people not participate in any of these activities.  My point is that people should educate themselves and know what they are getting into rather than just get excited over a tourist pamphlet in a hotel lobby or a yelp review.  Personally, I would never participate in one of the those trike aircraft "training" flights.  And I have no plans to jump out of a perfectly good airplane. I also don't have climbing an 8000 m peak on my bucket list.  To each their own.  Everyone (except for kids) is the pilot in command of their own lives.  If you aren't comfortable with an activity, wish your partner the best,  and tell them you will be waiting for them on the ground.


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## slip (May 26, 2016)

We really got to know my wife's instructor pretty well because we talked to him for a few hours while we waited for some clouds to pass. Most of these activities are pretty safe and this was a plane crash. I don't think my wife would shy away from any other activity because of this but because she got to know him, it was quite a shock.


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## jehb2 (May 26, 2016)

This is 10+ years ago but when we took my husband's sister's family to the Big Island they were considering doing a helicopter tour.  When we drove to Vocano National Park but we couldn't go down to the lava flow because only hours earlier a helicopter crashed killing the pilot, mom, dad, and 10 year old boy--the same age as my nephew traveling with us.  There have been many crashes since but that is the one I remember and it saddens me.


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## tompalm (May 27, 2016)

"Roger" said:


> While it is hard to  get  good comparisons (just for starters, when you are talking non-commercial planes that could mean corporate  jet vs. private aircraft vs. tourist attraction ), it appears that  the  risk of dying on a single flight on a small plane is about 10 to  20 times higher than  on an single  car ride.



This is true for so many reasons. I will list a few below. But, the sad thing is that a lot of pilots who carry people in their jump airplane do not have much experience and they have the minimum qualifications allowing them to fly the aircraft. Here are a few reasons why small aircraft have more accidents.

1. Lots of aircraft are old and poorly maintained. 

2. Aircraft performance manuals are written to show best case performance when aircraft are new. But as engines get old, they do not perform as well and can't carry the loads advertised. 

3. Accurate weight and balance during preflight doesn't always come out right after the aircraft is loaded. A young pilot might think it is no big deal. 

4. Weather can throw everything off with high winds while pilots are in the clouds. Lots of pilots are capable of flying in clouds on instruments, but don't take into account that the wind is blowing them closer to a mountain. If they are not flying on an airway, or have accurate GPS information, they can get blown into a mountain. This has happened several times in Hawaii in the last 10 years and is the cause of lots of helicopter accidents. 

5.  There are lots of cases where pilots ran out of gas because they flew a route many times before and thought there would be no problem to do it again. But the aircraft wasn't quite full, or there were stronger head winds, or a fuel leak and the pilot didn't notice low fuel until to late. 

Bottom line, the more training and experience a pilot has really pays off. Also, newer aircraft do not have as many maintenance problems.  One study I read reported that the pilots with the highest risk have between 500-1000 hours because they have enough hours to be confident, but not enough hours to have seen a lot of real problems or emergencies.


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## Kapolei (May 27, 2016)

I hope people don't read comments here the wrong way.  I am a huge believer in general aviation.  I also admire those that push their limits and climb 8000 meter peaks.  Those that died on Everest in recent days should be honored. Likewise, the people that died in this accident should have no shame.  My only issue is that people might get pulled in without knowing the risks.  Risk is not a metaphysical concept.  Risk is the possibility of an irreversible outcome.  You cannot rewind the tape.  You do not get a do over if your motorized hang glider collapses on itself when you are taking that joy ride that had five stars on yelp.  Just sharing my opinion here.  My sincerest condolences for all involved.

...


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## bjones9942 (May 27, 2016)

I would really like to see your facts to back up these assertions.  My experience with jump pilots and their equipment has been the TOTAL opposite.



tompalm said:


> This is true for so many reasons. I will list a few below. But, the sad thing is that a lot of pilots who carry people in their jump airplane do not have much experience and they have the minimum qualifications allowing them to fly the aircraft. Here are a few reasons why small aircraft have more accidents.
> 
> 1. Lots of aircraft are old and poorly maintained.
> 
> ...


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## bjones9942 (May 27, 2016)

With all respect - I'm not sure how someone could get 'pulled in' to skydiving without knowing the risks after watching a safety video and signing the multi-page waiver.  One would have to be living in a very narrow reality not to realize that falling from 10,000+ feet has a few associated risks.



Kapolei said:


> I hope people don't read comments here the wrong way.  I am a huge believer in general aviation.  I also admire those that push their limits and climb 8000 meter peaks.  Those that died on Everest in recent days should be honored. Likewise, the people that died in this accident should have no shame.  My only issue is that people might get pulled in without knowing the risks.  Risk is not a metaphysical concept.  Risk is the possibility of an irreversible outcome.  You cannot rewind the tape.  You do not get a do over if your motorized hang glider collapses on itself when you are taking that joy ride that had five stars on yelp.  Just sharing my opinion here.  My sincerest condolences for all involved.
> 
> ...


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## Kapolei (May 28, 2016)

bjones9942 said:


> With all respect - I'm not sure how someone could get 'pulled in' to skydiving without knowing the risks after watching a safety video and signing the multi-page waiver.  One would have to be living in a very narrow reality not to realize that falling from 10,000+ feet has a few associated risks.



I would think that it usually would start with a travel partner, or a friend or spouse.  Or maybe one comes up with ideas themselves after looking through tripadvisor or groupon.

These activities are marketed as turnkey.  You show up, pay the admission, listen to a lecture, and off you go

I am sure the risks of skydiving are much less than flying on one of those motorized hang gliders that have brought tourists to their deaths.  I don't mean to bring any disrespect to professional skydivers.

The point is that these activities are made available to just about everyone that can walk.  Just because it is available doesn't mean it is meant for everyone.  And it is easy to get caught up in the moment.  So yes, I do think people get pulled into an activity because a partner or someone in their group found a good deal.  Hard to say no sometimes.


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## philemer (May 29, 2016)

The plane was vintage 1965 so maintenance issues could be the cause. http://thegardenisland.com/news/loc...cle_a578332a-d614-56c8-8ce5-67f2ab605033.html

Condolences to all the family members. The two tourists were brothers.


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## bjones9942 (May 29, 2016)

Kapolei,

You are misinformed.  Skydiving is not made available to 'just about anyone who can walk'.  There are age restrictions.  There are weight restrictions.  Tandem instructors require a minimum of 500 jumps and 3 years in the sport, as well as taking a tandem instructor course - and they're the ones who control the student's jump.  If a student elects to jump solo, via static line, there is a several hours long course you must take and pass before you can make your jump.  There is also the multi-page waiver I referred to earlier that you must read and sign.  With a tandem jump there is instruction on exactly what you are going to be asked to do and not do.  While I will admit that outside the U.S.A. age and weight restrictions may be overlooked, the tandem instructor will always place the student's well being first.  Always.  And a student can say no at any time - even at the last second in the plane.

Oh, and you don't have to be able to walk in order to jump tandem.  This is a sport that people of many abilities can participate in.

I'd ask that you take a few minutes and watch some of the 'look what I did yesterday' tandem jump videos on youtube (skip the 'scare the hell out of you' ones for now).  You'll notice that there's one recurring thing in each and every one.  The big smile on the student's faces when their jump is over.  I speak from experience when I say it's not because the whole experience was terrifying - it's because it is one of the most amazing and freeing things you can ever experience.  There are no words to explain it.  One of my instructors said she tells people it's like suddenly seeing a new color.




Kapolei said:


> I would think that it usually would start with a travel partner, or a friend or spouse.  Or maybe one comes up with ideas themselves after looking through tripadvisor or groupon.
> 
> These activities are marketed as turnkey.  You show up, pay the admission, listen to a lecture, and off you go
> 
> ...


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## Kapolei (May 29, 2016)

bjones9942 said:


> ......  I speak from experience when I say it's not because the whole experience was terrifying - it's because it is one of the most amazing and freeing things you can ever experience.  There are no words to explain it.  One of my instructors said she tells people it's like suddenly seeing a new color.



I did a bungy jump in New Zealand about 25 years ago.  That's as close as it is going to get for me.  I don't even like taking amusement park rides any more.  I appreciate the discussion nonetheless.  And I agree, as others have said, that this is an aviation accident  However, aviation is a component of skydiving.  So I would want to know something about the aircraft I will be riding in if I ever change my mind and give it a try.

Again, my condolences for the families and friends of those involved.


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## tompalm (May 30, 2016)

bjones9942 said:


> I would really like to see your facts to back up these assertions.  My experience with jump pilots and their equipment has been the TOTAL opposite.



Did you even read my post?..  It is about small aircraft and accidents reported all over the world, not just jump pilots. Your experience is probably limited to one area and I am glad the planes or pilots where you have jumped met your standards. My information and experience is from attending every Navy and ALPA Safety course including the Navy's Post Graduate Program at Montery CA for Avaition Safety and spending more than 30 years doing accident investigations, and writing reports. Part of the job included studying accident reports and lessons learned to prevent accidents in the future.  Additionally, I read every report I can get my hands on that involved accidents in General Aviation as well as commercial flights. Lots of small planes crash for a reasons that involve pilot error or maintenance malpractice.  Small companies have lots of safety hazards that are never identified or reported. All looks good until something goes wrong.


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## Kapolei (May 30, 2016)

tompalm said:


> Did you even read my post?..  It is about small aircraft and accidents reported all over the world, not just jump pilots. Your experience is probably limited to one area and I am glad the planes or pilots where you have jumped met your standards. My information and experience is from attending every Navy and ALPA Safety course including the Navy's Post Graduate Program at Montery CA for Avaition Safety and spending more than 30 years doing accident investigations, and writing reports. Part of the job included studying accident reports and lessons learned to prevent accidents in the future.  Additionally, I read every report I can get my hands on that involved accidents in General Aviation as well as commercial flights. Lots of small planes crash for a reasons that involve pilot error or maintenance malpractice.  Small companies have lots of safety hazards that are never identified or reported. All looks good until something goes wrong.



Thanks for your contribution here.  While I am not an expert like you are, I too read the NTSB reports.  I have lived in Hawaii for some time.  During that time there have been many tourist involved incidents involving skydiving, glider flights, helicopter tours, and in my opinion, the most dangerous of all, trikes or motorized hang gliders.

I don't think the general public could really have a fair assessment of risks in these activities unless they do a lot of homework.  Which goes back to my point, that people often get drawn in to these activities without really having a good assessment of the dangers.  My advice to these folks is that if there is any doubt, stay on the ground.


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## bjones9942 (May 30, 2016)

My last post on this topic, and apologies to the turn from the tragedy originally discussed.

According to the National Center for Health Statistics you have a better chance of dying at a dance party than from skydiving.  In fact, many activities are much more dangerous.


http://www.besthealthdegrees.com/health-risks/


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## tompalm (May 31, 2016)

bjones9942 said:


> My last post on this topic, and apologies to the turn from the tragedy originally discussed.
> 
> According to the National Center for Health Statistics you have a better chance of dying at a dance party than from skydiving.  In fact, many activities are much more dangerous.
> 
> ...



Nobody died from skydiving or jumping out of a plane.  It was the plane crash that killed everyone.


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## tompalm (Jun 1, 2016)

It appears the aircraft had an engine fire / failure and the pilot was turning back to the field when the plane went down.  The cause was from the aircraft being old and having an engine failure, and possibly poor maintenance.  Perhaps if the airplane had been lighter, the pilot might have been able to handle the situation better.  Like it was said in an earlier post, dead engine with empty aircraft does not equal dead engine with full aircraft.  My condolences to the families of the skydivers and pilot.  

It will be interesting to see if the NTSB says that five passengers caused the aircraft to be overloaded and if it was a contributing factor in the accident.  In any event, it is a lot more difficult to handle an aircraft that is fully loaded than an aircraft that has less weight in it.   


Top News
NTSB releases preliminary report on fatal Kauai plane crash
By Rosemarie Bernardo
June 1, 2016
Updated June 1, 2016 10:03am
STAR-ADVERTISER
                                Investigators inspected the wreckage from a sky-diving plane crash, on May 23, near the Port Allen Airport on Kauai.
STAR-ADVERTISER

Investigators inspected the wreckage from a sky-diving plane crash, on May 23, near the Port Allen Airport on Kauai.

The National Transportation Safety Board released a preliminary report today on the fatal skydiving tour plane crash where five men died in Hanapepe.

Pilot Damien Horan, 30, originally from Ireland; brothers Marshall Cabe, 25, and Phillip Cabe, 27, of Lawton, Okla. who were the tandem jumpers; and instructors Enzo Amitrano, 43, of Koloa; and Wayne Rose, 26, of Hanapepe, died in the crash on the morning of May 23.

According to the report, a Cessna 182H was destroyed when it struck the ground shortly after takeoff from Port Allen Airport at about 9:22 a.m. The airplane was registered to and operated by D & J Air Adventures, Inc.

The aircraft took off about 9:21 a.m.

“Multiple witnesses reported that shortly after takeoff, about 150 feet above ground level, the airplane made a sudden right turn, descended, and impacted terrain,” the report said. The plane caught fire after it crashed.

Cisco Campos, 68, of Hanapepe told the Star-Advertiser he was fishing near the runway at Port Allen when he heard the engine sputter after the aircraft took off. At the end of the runway, he said, it appeared the plane attempted to turn around to head back toward the airport when the engine caught fire and the plane went straight down.

The wreckage was transported to a secured facility at the Lihue Airport for the ongoing investigation.

The final report on the fiery crash is expected to be released in 12 to 16 months.


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## Kapolei (Jun 2, 2016)

Every accident is different. But accidents involving skydiving are not by any means new.  Here is one incident from a 2009 special investigative report on safety of parachute jump operations.

Bryan, Texas (FTW99FA261)
On  September  18,  1999,  a  Cessna  182A,  N4803D,  operated  by  Ags  Over  Texas, crashed following a loss of engine power during takeoff from Coulter Field Airport near Bryan,  Texas.  The  commercial  pilot  and  the  four  parachutists  were  killed.  Witnesses reported that, after takeoff, the airplane was climbing through about 300 to 400 feet agl when smoke became visible coming from the engine compartment. One witness reported that the airplane turned toward the runway and that the witness “thought it was going back to Coulter Field Airport. A few seconds later I saw it go straight down.” Another witness stated that “the aircraft appeared to stall. The right wing dropped quickly, and the aircraft spun in, nose down, spin[ning] to the right, making one complete revolution before impacting the ground.” 
Examination  of  the  engine  revealed  that  the  No.  6  cylinder  head  was  separated where  the  cylinder  attaches  to  the  barrel.  Metallurgical  examination  revealed  that  the cylinder head separated from its cylinder barrel as a result of fatigue cracking originating in  the  cylinder  head  thread.  The  cylinder  displayed  three  work-order  numbers  on  the 
flange skirt, indicative of the cylinder having had many hours of time in service and having been worked on at least three times. At the time of the accident, the engine had accumulated  about  354  hours  since  overhaul.  During  that  overhaul,  six  Nu-chromed overhauled  cylinders  were  installed.  It  could  not  be  determined  how  many  hours  the 
cylinders had accumulated nor how many times they had been overhauled. There is no requirement to track cylinder hours or overhaul occurrences.
The Safety Board determined that the probable cause of the accident was the pilot’s failure to maintain aircraft control, resulting in an inadvertent stall. A factor was the loss of engine power as a result of fatigue cracking and separation of the No. 6 cylinder head.
---------------------------------------------------


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## tompalm (Jun 2, 2016)

Kapolei said:


> Every accident is different. But accidents involving skydiving are not by any means new.  Here is one incident from a 2009 special investigative report on safety of parachute jump operations.
> 
> Bryan, Texas (FTW99FA261)
> The Safety Board determined that the probable cause of the accident was the pilot’s failure to maintain aircraft control, resulting in an inadvertent stall. A factor was the loss of engine power as a result of fatigue cracking and separation of the No. 6 cylinder head.
> ---------------------------------------------------



It seems like anytime people die, pilot error is to blame.  In most cases, pilots that had a lot of training and practiced engine failures are able to keep the aircraft flying. But pilot error is listed even when the circumstances are unreasonable like the cockpit is filled with fire and smoke and the pilot was unable to maintain control, the investigators do not cut the pilot any slack and still list the cause as pilot error.   The accidents below happened during the last few years in Hawaii where the pilot kept the aircraft under control and everyone lived (exception one lady died of a heart attack after the plane was in the water).  In those cases, engine failure was the cause of the problem.  

http://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/story/...makes-emergency-landing-after-engine-problems

http://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/story/...makes-emergency-landing-after-engine-problems

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QguEfBMhpyc

In this most recent accident with the jump plane on Kauai, the board will find pilot error as the cause.  Pictures on the local news showed that the plane did not have very much forward speed when it impacted the ground, meaning that the aircraft stalled and dropped to the ground.  The skydivers or passengers only chance was to recognize an old, over loaded aircraft before it took off and not go up. Perhaps this jump plane has done this many times before and all would have been fine had the engine not failed.  But, this should not have happened with a company that carries so many people onboard at one time.  I hope the FAA starts cracking down on companies and checking their maintenance records and weight and balance loads.


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## Kapolei (Jun 2, 2016)

Recent update on the Caravan crash off Molokai.

"Autopsy results had determined that [Hawaii Department of Health Director] Fuddy died from acute cardiac arrhythmia, or an irregular heartbeat, due to hyperventilation." KHON

The updated report says she was wearing an infant life vest only partially inflated.   --- KHON 5/4/16
----------------------------------------------------


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## Kapolei (Jun 3, 2016)

Unless there are new updates, I am going to step out of the conversation here.  Again, I am very sorry for the loss of life and my condolences to the families and friends.

--------------


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## JIMinNC (Jun 4, 2016)

philemer said:


> The plane was vintage 1965 so maintenance issues could be the cause. http://thegardenisland.com/news/loc...cle_a578332a-d614-56c8-8ce5-67f2ab605033.html
> 
> Condolences to all the family members. The two tourists were brothers.



Older airplanes are not like older cars. There are very few 1965 cars still on the road, but there are plenty of 1965 airplanes still flying. Engines must be replaced or overhauled about every 2000 flying hours, so a 1965 airplane could easily have a brand new engine. If an airplane is well maintained, a 1965 (or older) airplane can be just as safe as a newer plane. I am in a partnership/club that owns a 1977 aircraft - but the engine is fairly low time, it has updated modern radios and avionics, and brand new paint and interior was installed just a couple of years ago. While the basic airframe is 39 years old, many components are much newer.


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## daventrina (Jun 30, 2016)

tompalm said:


> 1. Lots of aircraft are old and poorly maintained.


While old ... few accidents are caused by poor maintenance.

The top 3 ways to reduce your chance of not dying in an airplane:

1) Don't run out of gas!

2) Don't run into a mountain!

3) Don't mess around at low altitude!

These account for 90% of the fatal GA accidents.


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## daventrina (Jun 30, 2016)

*Accident Details*

So sad when this happens. Our condolences go out to the families. 
Details from the NTSB report below. Interestingly, there is no report in the FAA database.






Accident Details
Event Date	2016-05-23	    	Event Id	20160523X75309
Registration Number	N2007X	    	Aircraft Make	CESSNA
Aircraft Model	182	    	Aircraft Serial Number	18256107
Damage	DEST	    	Phase Of Flight	 
Accident Occurrences		    	Killed	5
Seriously Injured	0	    	Minor Injured	0
Airframe Hours	 	    	Airframe Hours Since Last Inspection	 
Date Last Inspection	2016-03-22	    	Event Site City	HANAPEPE
Event Site State	HI	    	Event Site Zipcode	96716
Event Site Country	USA	    	Flight Number	 
Owner Name	D & J AIR ADVENTURES INC	    	Owner Street	PO BOX 1875
Owner City	KOLOA	    	Owner State	HI
Owner Zip	967561875	    	Owner Country	USA
Operator Name	D & J AIR ADVENTURES INC	    	Operator Dba	 
Operator Street	PO BOX 1875	    	Operator City	KOLOA
Operator State	HI	    	Operator Zip	967561875
Operator Country	USA	    	Operator Code	 
Narratives	PRELIMINARY NARRATIVE:

On May 23, 2016 about 0922 Hawaiian standard time, a Cessna 182H, N2007X, was destroyed when it impacted terrain shortly after departure from Port Allen (PAK), Hanapepe, Hawaii. The pilot and four passengers were fatally injured. The airplane was registered to, and operated by, D & J Air Adventures, Inc., as a 14 Code of Federal Regulations (CFR) Part 91 flight as a part of the skydiving flight operation. Visual meteorological conditions prevailed for the flight, and no flight plan filed. The local flight originated from PAK at about 0921. 

Multiple witnesses reported that shortly after takeoff, about 150 feet above ground level, the airplane made a sudden right turn, descended, and impacted terrain. A post crash fire ensued. 

After the on-site documentation, the wreckage was recovered to a secured facility for further examination.​
Description indicates a departure Stall-Spin. 
So sadly , yes it appears to be pilot error. Possibly with engine failure and/or improper weight and balance as a contributing factor.

Engine failure on departure ... from 150 feet you will not make a turn back to the airport in that aircraft.

http://www.kathrynsreport.com/2016/05/cessna-182h-skydive-hawaii-fatal.html

HONOLULU (HawaiiNewsNow) -

Three former Skydive Kauai pilots said they were concerned about the airworthiness of the plane that crashed Monday just after takeoff, killing all five people on board.

"I didn't feel comfortable flying that plane myself," said one pilot.

Two of the pilots said they quit rather than go up in the 51-year-old plane again. The third said he left Skydive Kauai in 2012 when he asked to see the plane's maintenance logs and was fired.

Hawaii News Now granted the three pilots anonymity.

The pilot who said he was fired said that he had experienced a minor maintenance issue with the airplane and lost oil pressure in the engine.

"Luckily, I was on the ground," he said.

The pilot said Skydive Kauai's owner subsequently refused to show him the maintenance log books for the aircraft. "It kind of made me wonder something was going on with the airplane," he said.​


Wasn't the first accident for the plane:

NTSB Identification: MKC71FCG04
14 CFR Part 91 General Aviation
Aircraft: CESSNA 182, registration: N2007X
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 FILE    DATE          LOCATION          AIRCRAFT DATA       INJURIES       FLIGHT                        PILOT DATA
                                                               F  S M/N     PURPOSE
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
3-3026  70/7/14    KANSAS CITY,KANS    CESSNA 182          CR-  0  0  1  NONCOMMERCIAL             PRIVATE, AGE 42, 158
        TIME - 1725                    N2007X              PX-  0  0  3  PLEASURE/PERSONAL TRANSP  TOTAL HOURS, 5 IN TYPE,
                                       DAMAGE-SUBSTANTIAL  OT-  0  0  0                            NOT INSTRUMENT RATED.
        NAME OF AIRPORT - FAIRFAX
        DEPARTURE POINT             INTENDED DESTINATION
          KANSAS CITY,KANS            LOCAL
        TYPE OF ACCIDENT                                         PHASE OF OPERATION
           HARD LANDING                                             LANDING: LEVEL OFF/TOUCHDOWN
           GEAR COLLAPSED                                           LANDING: LEVEL OFF/TOUCHDOWN
        PROBABLE CAUSE(S)
           PILOT IN COMMAND - IMPROPER LEVEL OFF
           PILOT IN COMMAND - IMPROPER RECOVERY FROM BOUNCED LANDING
        FACTOR(S)
           POWERPLANT - POWERPLANT-INSTRUMENTS: POWER INDICATORS
           MISCELLANEOUS ACTS,CONDITIONS - DISCONNECTED
           PILOT IN COMMAND - LACK OF FAMILIARITY WITH AIRCRAFT
           MISCELLANEOUS ACTS,CONDITIONS - OVERLOAD FAILURE
        EMERGENCY CIRCUMSTANCES - PRECAUTIONARY LANDING ON AIRPORT
                                  SUSPECTED MECHANICAL DISCREPANCY
        REMARKS- MANIFOLD PRESSURE INOP. LINE BROKE AT ENG. PLT BELIEVED ENG MALFUNCTION. PORPOISED ON LDG.


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## tompalm (Jul 1, 2016)

Thanks for posting this. It is sad to see the same story over and over. Possibly the weight and balance was off because the aircraft was older and caused an aft center of gravity. A stall could have caused the wing to drop and maybe he wasn't turning back. If they had better equipment and less weight, the outcome might have been better. My condolences to the families.


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## trish_robertson1 (Jul 11, 2016)

My nephews were the tandem jumpers in this accodent. I, along with many others, have tried to get the message out concerning the apparent shady practices by this business owner. I have heard one too many things concerning this operation and am  trying to warn others. We have posted reviews on yelp that have been deleted, TripAdvisor (they never got published) and google. I appreciate all the information you all have posted. And I thank you for your condolences as this has been a tough time for my family and I do not wish for another family to experience a loss like ours. 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk


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## trish_robertson1 (Jul 11, 2016)

tompalm said:


> It seems like anytime people die, pilot error is to blame.  In most cases, pilots that had a lot of training and practiced engine failures are able to keep the aircraft flying. But pilot error is listed even when the circumstances are unreasonable like the cockpit is filled with fire and smoke and the pilot was unable to maintain control, the investigators do not cut the pilot any slack and still list the cause as pilot error.   The accidents below happened during the last few years in Hawaii where the pilot kept the aircraft under control and everyone lived (exception one lady died of a heart attack after the plane was in the water).  In those cases, engine failure was the cause of the problem.
> 
> http://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/story/...makes-emergency-landing-after-engine-problems
> 
> ...


The pilot never should have been put in that situation. I believe it was the condition of the plane. 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk


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## daventrina (Jul 12, 2016)

trish_robertson1 said:


> The pilot never should have been put in that situation. I believe it was the condition of the plane.


I would guess that the pilot that was fired when he asked to see the logbooks would agree with you.

You may want to talk to the FSDO  (Flight Standards District Office).
https://www.faa.gov/about/office_org/field_offices/fsdo/hnl/contact/
You may find it helpful, frustrating, or both.

Once again, sorry for your loss. 



tompalm said:


> ... Possibly the weight and balance was off because the aircraft was older and caused an aft center of gravity. ...


Weight and balance has nothing to do with aircraft age, just simple math.

https://www.faa.gov/regulations_pol....cfm/go/document.information/documentID/22749



tompalm said:


> ... But pilot error is listed even when the circumstances are unreasonable like the cockpit is filled with fire and smoke and the pilot was unable to maintain control, the investigators do not cut the pilot any slack and still list the cause as pilot error.
> ...


This is in large part because of the Federal regulations:

FAR 91.3(a) states that “The pilot in command of an aircraft is directly responsible for, and is the final authority as to, the operation of that aircraft.”​
It is a responsibility that every pilot takes when acting as Pilot In Command.


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## tompalm (Jul 12, 2016)

I thought that I read the aircraft had a new engine and that new engine might have been lighter causing less weight forward.  Also, things get moved inside the aircraft as it gets older, like the seats taken out and replaced by other seats that are lighter or more gear moved aft.  Those are small changes, but everything adds up. It is not that the airframe changes, but other factors occur over time.


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## daventrina (Jul 13, 2016)

tompalm said:


> I thought that I read the aircraft had a new engine and that new engine might have been lighter causing less weight forward.  Also, things get moved inside the aircraft as it gets older, like the seats taken out and replaced by other seats that are lighter or more gear moved aft.  Those are small changes, but everything adds up. It is not that the airframe changes, but other factors occur over time.



Age has nothing to do with it.

Anytime there are changes made that change the weight in any significant way, a certified mechanic is required to calculate a new weight and balance.
Sometimes it is necessary to  reweigh the aircraft and establish a new weight and balance. Other times, like when equipment is changed like a new radio, the new weight and balance is established by subtracting the old weight and arm and adding the new weight and arm from/to the existing weight and balance sheet.

If the aircraft in question had a new engine that was a different weight, a new weight and balance would have been required when the engine change happened.


The Pilot In Commands(PIC) is responsible to operate the aircraft within the weight and  forward and aft center of gravity limits of the aircraft. If the aircraft is operated outside of those limits, a special airworthiness certificate is required (except for some special exemptions in Alaska). It is the PIC responsibility to make sure that there is a valid weight and balance onboard the aircraft prior to departure.


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## Kapolei (Jul 13, 2016)

_Seating arrangements can really affect your balance. Usually you have one jumper sitting with his back to dashboard. Make sure his reserve and main pin flaps don’t get caught on anything under the dash. Many DZs have put up back boards from the floor to the panel to prevent this from happening. Also make sure that the area around the fuel selector and flap handle stay clear. Early model 182s have a “parking brake” type of manual flap extension handle. Loose leg straps and handles have found their way around or  under these handles and have been snagged.

The next jumper can sit on his knees in between the legs of the front jumper or can sit facing aft. It always makes me chuckle when someone insists on sitting on their knees facing forward and then leans forward for the takeoff roll for the “balance problem.” In an accident this person will flop around inside the cabin as they will have a pretty loose strap tying them down. I prefer people to sit facing aft in between the forward jumper’s legs as this provides the best tight restraint in case of a forced landing or crash.

Another jumper sits back to pilot with his legs stretched straight back to the tail, and the last jumper sits with his back to the back bulkhead facing forward (with his legs in between the the other two aft facing jumpers’ legs). Go and measure the actual “arm” from the zero point on your aircraft (typically the firewall) and then compute  their “moment.” _

http://diverdriver.com/cessna-182-skydiving-aircraft/


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## tompalm (Jul 14, 2016)

As the aircraft gets older and changes are made with a new weight and balance, everything is subject to human error. Minor deviations make a big deal. My worst experience was flying an older Cenena 414 for Hawaii Air Ambulance and taking off out of Molikai at 2 a.m.  The aircraft was 200 lbs from max weight and I could have put one more person onboard, but at the last minute that person decided to stay in Molikai. I did the weight and balance three times to make sure everything was good. I made excessive speed during takeoff and a slow rotation. As soon as the aircraft lifted off, it was a balancing act to maintain control. The nose was trying to pitch up and it was the closest I ever came to buying the farm.  Had an engine failed during the first 500 foot of climb, I would not have been able to maintain control.  Had the extra person gone with us and sat in the back, the outcome might have been different.  There is no way the manual was correct for weight and balance or aircraft performance. 

What is supposed to happen doesn't always take place due to negligence or willful negligence. The cheaper the operation, the more cutting corners and cutting cost happen. Older aircraft are not the same as a newer aircraft. As far as working performance manuals or weight and balance, I had 20 years experience with P-3 manuals in the Navy and took written test twice a year. The manual and charts I was using for the 414 was off.  You have to assume that just happens with older aircraft where changes are made. Operating at max gross weight is so different than flying around with four people onboard. Most people or or small companies never notice a difference because they don't fly the aircraft at max weight or do that very often.


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