# Bay Club update & HVGC t/s tour



## philemer (Jan 15, 2009)

Hi all,
We traded into the Bay Club about a year ago and when we checked in last Sat. we were given a nice Villa unit (1112). I checked in at 10AM because we were moving from the KCR. I was very lucky that a unit was ready at this time.

Yesterday we attended an owner's update. I'm not an owner but was interested to hear what was going on. The main part of the presentation was by the Asst. Manager of the HGVC, Phil. He talked mostly about the complete refurb. of all the Bay Club units. It is to start in 2010 and they will take one whole bidg. out of service at a time. Each bldg. should be out of service for approx. two months. That's 24 or 26 units, not sure. It will be a floor-to-ceiling redo. He said there is quite a bit of money in the reserve account but said he was not allowed to comment on whether or not there will be a SA (special assessment). They will also be remodeling the Villas at the same time but it won't be as extensive. They will just do one Villa at a time & not take a whole bldg. out-of-service.

He also said they were working on getting a diff. Wi-Fi provider. Coverage is good but spotty. He mentioned a few smaller "achievements" but the complete refurb. was the main topic. 

The HVGC Waikoloa t/s tour presentation was fairly normal.  I don't remember the exact prices but I think an EOY ~5000 pt. package was around $11000. She said King's Land points are the cheapest right now because they are still in construction. As a final attempt to extract some $$ from me she offered an "exit package" for a return trip for $1795 (not $2795). That would get me enough points for a one-time stay at King's Land. Maybe someone with exact figures could chime in. I didn't take notes, sorry.

Forgot to mention the presentation gift. As RCI exchangers we were given a $50 GC to use at the Hilton Waikoloa Hotel's restaurants & shops. My sister is with us and she got a $100 GC because she was classified as a "referral". What a bunch of nonsense.


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## WalnutBaron (Jan 15, 2009)

Thanks, Phil, for the update.  The Bay Club is one of our favorite resorts with just a fantastic location.  I'm glad to hear the resort is going to be updated.  Too often, resorts wait until it's too late to refurbish--when carpets are worn, furniture is in various states of disrepair, and color schemes are clearly outdated.

When we visited last year, we did not observe any of these problems but we did note that it was tough to compete with the Hilton Waikoloa next door.

I'm excited to visit The Bay Club again, hopefully next year!

Have a great time in beautiful Hawaii.


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## Sunshine Wanted (Jan 15, 2009)

*Bay Club*

Thanks for the update.  We are still "thinking" (and learning) about t/s & Bay Club.  We stayed at HGVC Waikoloa (next door) and did the t/s tour.  We were offered the trial package for $1799 (it would have been 1999 if we choose Hawaii) - a 5000 pt package to use within a specified period of time (can't remember if it was 2 yrs or 18mos).  We did buy into that, but then rescinded after reading the fine print, looking at the point chart, and knowing we wanted to go at Christmas (hardest time to get).  

Bay Club units seem like they would be wonderful (size of unit and the lanai looks so wonderful).  I bet after their redo they will be top notch.  I've been trying to learn about it - and always ask the question about future special assessments due to the remodel.  So far, no one knows of any it seems.

Is the villa on the upper floor?  Do all the villas have golf course views, or (if I recall) there may be some with street views as well.  I'm wondering what you prefer - the villa or the 2 bdrm top floor unit.

Have fun during your vacation!!  I wish I was there right now too.  Again, thanks for the update and information.


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## philemer (Jan 15, 2009)

Sunshine Wanted said:


> Thanks for the update.  We are still "thinking" (and learning) about t/s & Bay Club.  We stayed at HGVC Waikoloa (next door) and did the t/s tour.  We were offered the trial package for $1799 (it would have been 1999 if we choose Hawaii) - a 5000 pt package to use within a specified period of time (can't remember if it was 2 yrs or 18mos).  We did buy into that, but then rescinded after reading the fine print, looking at the point chart, and knowing we wanted to go at Christmas (hardest time to get).
> 
> Bay Club units seem like they would be wonderful (size of unit and the lanai looks so wonderful).  I bet after their redo they will be top notch.  I've been trying to learn about it - and always ask the question about future special assessments due to the remodel.  So far, no one knows of any it seems.
> 
> ...



The Villas have "road" views. :rofl:  The Villa bldgs are two story and we have a ground floor unit. We can hear every footstep from the people above us.  The lanais face the main road & that is one negative. But the traffic is light. I think I would rather have a standard 2BR (not a Villa) with a golf course view.

I corrected the 'exit package' figure. It was ~$1795, not $2795, plus an extra $200 if you used it at "special" properties.


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## Sunshine Wanted (Jan 16, 2009)

Thanks again for the info Phil.  Good to know about the villas...


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## ricoba (Jan 16, 2009)

philemer said:


> The Villas have "road" views. :rofl:  The Villa bldgs are two story and we have a ground floor unit. We can hear every footstep from the people above us.  The lanais face the main road & that is one negative. But the traffic is light. I think I would rather have a standard 2BR (not a Villa) with a golf course view.
> 
> I corrected the 'exit package' figure. It was ~$1795, not $2795, plus an extra $200 if you used it at "special" properties.



I agree with that Phil.  We had the bottom floor 2 bed villa, and had very noisy neighbors upstairs, and like you we had a view of the road.  

I was so disappointed that I complained to HGVC and they redeposited the 1200 extra points we used for the Villa.  The property manager also called and personally thanked me for the "complaint" which I did very nicely and politely.  He knew the Bay Club needed some upgrades and let me know that it was in the plans for the future.  I give pluses to HGVC & the Waikoloa Management for seriously responding to my concerns.

If I were stay there again, I too would take a 2 bedroom upper floor with golf course views, especially if they refurbish/modernize the units.


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## short (Jan 16, 2009)

*Special assessment.*

I attended the annual meeting in November 2008.  A special assessment of $300 annual and $150 EOY was mentioned.  It was mentioned when this would come about.  This was presented as an advance on future annual reserve requirements(with MF going down in future years) as a full refurb would not be required for several years after this one is done.

I think by next year they will have a model open to preview what they will look like.  They are not planning to change the floor plan much as moving plumbing and electrical will increase the cost substantially.

Short


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## alwysonvac (Jan 16, 2009)

*Just a thought....Conflict of interest?*



> Yesterday we attended an owner's update. I'm not an owner but was interested to hear what was going on. The main part of the presentation was by the Asst. Manager of the HGVC, Phil. He talked mostly about the complete refurb. of all the Bay Club units. It is to start in 2010 and they will take one whole bidg. out of service at a time. Each bldg. should be out of service for approx. two months. That's 24 or 26 units, not sure. It will be a floor-to-ceiling redo. He said there is quite a bit of money in the reserve account but said he was not allowed to comment on whether or not there will be a SA (special assessment). They will also be remodeling the Villas at the same time but it won't be as extensive. They will just do one Villa at a time & not take a whole bldg. out-of-service.



I'm sure the villas will look much better after the complete refurb and remodeling. But with HGVC developed resorts at the same location, I wonder if there is a conflict of interest? 

LOL, I'm not trying to cause a ruckus :rofl: Just want to hear some thoughts on the subject. 

I'm thinking HGVC would prefer that HGVC Waikoloa and Kingsland standout on top since these resorts are marketed by HGVC and rented on Hilton.com
I guess if most of Kingsland is sold out before the Bay Club remodeling begins then it wouldn't impact sales at Kingsland.


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## Sandy VDH (Jan 16, 2009)

HGVC Manages the Bay Club.  The Bay Club is sold out of developer weeks but has resales.  The land that HGVC built on was land owned by the Bay Club developers.  There obviously is some financial arrangement that happened between HGVC and Bay Club.

HGVC specifically built, markets and sells, both Waikoloa and Kings Land. When these two properties sell out completely, they will be exactly in the same situation as Bay Club.  Any other HGVC specific build property that is completely sold out is also in the same situation.

All properties when sold out, whether HGVC specific build or an affiliate, will be owned by owners and run by decisions made by the HOA.  These properties are NO LONGER OWNED by HGVC.  HGVC is contracted to manage the properties by the HOA.

So there will be no conflict of interest between the other properties and Bay Club located in Waikoloa.

There is always the possibility that the HOA no longer contracts with Hilton to manage the properties (no affliates that I am aware of have done this).  Or Hilton could choose to drop a property. (Hilton has not done this in the past with other sold out properties, however Marriott has chosen to do this before).

I have no idea why there is this persistent thought that Bay Club is some poor adopted child that should be kicked out of the house now that natural children (kingsland and Waikoloa) are present.

Just my opinion.


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## WalnutBaron (Jan 16, 2009)

Sandy Lovell said:


> I have no idea why there is this persistent thought that Bay Club is some poor adopted child that should be kicked out of the house now that natural children (kingsland and Waikoloa) are present.
> 
> Just my opinion.



Well and eloquently said.


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## alwysonvac (Jan 16, 2009)

> There obviously is some financial arrangement that happened between HGVC and Bay Club.



In 2002 Hilton increased their stake in both Hilton Waikoloa Village & Bay Club

*From - *http://pacific.bizjournals.com/pacific/stories/2002/04/29/daily40.html (dated Wednesday, May 1, 2002)
_Hilton Hotels Corp. announced Wednesday it has completed its acquisition of the 1,241-room Hilton Waikoloa Village on Hawaii's Big Island. 
Hilton announced the agreement to purchase the remaining 87 percent interest in the Hilton Waikoloa Village property on the island of Hawaii during its quarterly earnings report last week. The transaction, valued at $155 million, means Hilton will purchase the leasehold interest in the property for 40 cents on the dollar, according to Matthew J. Hart, chief financial officer for Hilton. The Hilton Waikoloa Village is a 1,241-room resort sitting on 62 acres on the Kohala coast. It was acquired by Japanese investors and Hilton in 1993 and was originally developed by Chris Hemmeter in 1988 for $400 million. _

*From* - http://www.allbusiness.com/north-america/united-states-hawaii/247326-1.html (dated Sunday, September 1 2002)
_Nikken Corp., whose Japanese parent company is Azel Corp., operates the Bay Club at Waikoloa Beach Resort on the Big Island. The 172-unit property was built in the early 199 Os as a high-end condominium project and in 1994 became a time-share operation. _

*From -*http://archives.starbulletin.com/2002/11/16/business/story2.html (dated Saturday, November 16, 2002)
_The owners of the Bay Club time-share resort at Waikoloa on the Big Island have transferred the sales and marketing of the property to Hilton Grand Vacations Club for an undisclosed price. The Hilton time-share operation also will assume management of the property when the transfer goes into effect Jan.1. Richard Lachmann, attorney for the Bay Club Ownership Resort Inc., said yesterday the deal involves the existing 172 units at the resort and does not include the 90-unit Phase II, which broke ground Aug. 6. 
Nikken Corp., a Hawaii corporation owned in Japan, joined with Lahaina-headquartered Grand Ownership Resorts in 1994 to convert the Waikoloa resort to time-share. Sales at the 15.5-acre Bay Club have gone well, to the point of a near sellout, but conditions in Japan led Nikken to seek someone else to take it over, Nikken said in a statement issued in Honolulu. The Bay Club has been an affiliate of Hilton Grand Vacations since 1999, but the agreement expands Hilton's involvement, the statement said._



> I have no idea why there is this persistent thought that Bay Club is some poor adopted child that should be kicked out of the house now that natural children (kingsland and Waikoloa) are present.


 Sorry this is sore point for you but the purpose of my post was not about whether Bay Club will be or should be kicked out.


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## philemer (Jan 16, 2009)

Sandy Lovell said:


> I have no idea why there is this persistent thought that Bay Club is some poor adopted child that should be kicked out of the house now that natural children (kingsland and Waikoloa) are present.
> 
> Just my opinion.



Nice post Sandy. I'm not a B.C. or HGVC owner but one of the B.C. owners was complaining about not being able to use the pools, for free, at the Hilton. The HVGC owners do get to use them for free. He also said that the attitude of the HGVC marketing/front office staff was that B.C. owners were second class citizens. I have not seen this. I have no dog in this fight-just observing. BTW, thanks for your past help Sandy.


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## Sandy VDH (Jan 16, 2009)

alwysonvac said:


> Sorry this is sore point for you but the purpose of my post was not about whether Bay Club will be or should be kicked out.



Its not a sore point for me.  I just want people to understand the facts of development vs operations of a mini system timeshare, like HGVC.

What exactly was the purpose of your posting, because I missed it then.  Conflict of interest pertaining to what?  Please clarify, as it appears I was not the only one who read something else by it.


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## alwysonvac (Jan 16, 2009)

Sandy Lovell said:


> Its not a sore point for me.  I just want people to understand the facts of development vs operations of a mini system timeshare, like HGVC.
> 
> What exactly was the purpose of your posting, because I missed it then.  Conflict of interest pertaining to what?  Please clarify, as it appears I was not the only one who read something else by it.



Never mind... just let it go.. I have nothing more to say on this topic


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## benjaminb13 (Jan 16, 2009)

philemer said:


> Nice post Sandy. I'm not a B.C. or HGVC owner but one of the B.C. owners was complaining about not being able to use the pools, for free, at the Hilton. The HVGC owners do get to use them for free. He also said that the attitude of the HGVC marketing/front office staff was that B.C. owners were second class citizens. I have not seen this. I have no dog in this fight-just observing. BTW, thanks for your past help Sandy.




I always stay at both places yearly-every year I have myweek at HGVC waik and  add 3 or 4 daysat Bay Club first. Bay Club does serve its purpose as there are always openings available.  Yes,there is big dfference inunit quality.
Bay Club uits are older and dated at times....but they are bigger.
Bay Club users do notget to use Hilton Pools for free. Which is unfair, but then again I have something to look forward to once I stay in HGVC Waik.
No one knows whether HGVC will keep bay Club. But I hope they do as it really serves a purpose. I my case, it gives me more time to enjoy the bigf island. I would hate to fly to the big islad and stay only seven days.
Also even though the quality is not HGVC standards, It is like 1/3 of the price.
Sandy 
I thinkyou took Alwysons post too personal- It is a very valid point that may members are concerned about.


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## Sandy VDH (Jan 17, 2009)

benjaminb13 said:


> Sandy
> I thinkyou took Alwysons post too personal- It is a very valid point that may members are concerned about.



I just don't understand what the conflict of interest is, and I would like someone to elaborate so that I can understand their point.


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## benjaminb13 (Jan 17, 2009)

IMO -HGVC just completed Kingsland during tough times. If you look into making reservations there is lots of availability in Kingsland for a lot more points and money. More points, more money. The conflict arises when you are trying to promote your own property, (that costs much more points, is more expensive and there is a lot of inventory) over your affiliate club which has good availability and less points to use. Let’s remember there have been previous rumors of HGVC dropping Bay Club in the near future with the coming of Kingsland.  HGVC will do everything it can to make sure the Kingsland units are priority, then HGVC Waik.  Unfortunately this philosophy is clearly displayed when HGVC treats Bay Club owners as stepchildren. So they are currently looking at the Bay Club closely. To be continued.....

I truly hope this does not happen.  I think it’s important to have an inexpensive alternative for visitors. Although, there is a drop in unit quality, there is a lot more to see on the Big Island other than just the resort.  So the extra days the Bay Club gives a HGVC member is a blessing.


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## Talent312 (Jan 17, 2009)

benjaminb13 said:


> IMO -HGVC JUST COMPLETED....



benjaminb13, FYI...
It is a tradition of the internet that one does not make a lengthy post in ALL CAPS.
In netiquette circles, the use of "caps" is construed to be shouting (kind'a rude).
Its also rather difficult to read.


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## benjaminb13 (Jan 17, 2009)

Talent312 said:


> benjaminb13, FYI...
> It is a tradition of the internet that one does not make a lengthy post in ALL CAPS.
> In netiquette circles, the use of "caps" is construed to be shouting (kind'a rude).
> Its also rather difficult to read.


My apologies
Not my intention- I didnt know about this rule


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## Talent312 (Jan 17, 2009)

benjaminb13 said:


> My apologies
> Not my intention- I didnt know about this [netiquette] rule.



Quite alright.  Its mostly us old-timers who gripe about kids these days who were never schooled in netiquette protocols.  Many disdain them as being the product of gray-hairs from "olden-days."

For those interested in reading more, there is a Wikipedia article at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Netiquette .  A comprehensive summary is set forth at: http://www.dtcc.edu/cs/rfc1855.html or
http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc1855  The rule on caps can be found under Section 2.1.1


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## benjaminb13 (Jan 17, 2009)

Talent312 said:


> Quite alright.  Its mostly us old-timers who gripe about kids these days who were never schooled in netiquette protocols.  Many disdain them as being the product of gray-hairs from "olden-days."
> 
> For those interested in reading more, there is a Wikipedia article at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Netiquette .  A comprehensive summary is set forth at: http://www.dtcc.edu/cs/rfc1855.html or
> http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc1855  The rule on caps can be found under Section 2.1.1



You are right - Plus us old-timers can be pretty lazy. Ha-ha
Thanks again pal
I appreciate learning  the netiquette protocols from the Jedi Master.


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## philemer (Jan 17, 2009)

benjaminb13 said:


> IMO -HGVC just completed Kingsland during tough times.



King's Land is FAR from complete. They only have abt. 4 bldgs. ready +-. They plan on having about 800 rooms/suites when complete. I would imagine that sales are slow now but just guessing.


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## Sandy VDH (Jan 18, 2009)

benjaminb13 said:


> HGVC will do everything it can to make sure the Kingsland units are priority, then HGVC Waik.  The conflict arises when you are trying to promote your own property, (that costs much more points, is more expensive and there is a lot of inventory) over your affiliate club which has good availability and less points to use.



The reason I don't see this as COI is because the people HGVC is marketing to, and who purchase HGVC Waikoloa or Kingsland, are NOT the types who would buy resale.   They are NOT marketing Bay Club, they are managing the operations of Bay Club.  They have agents to handle Bay Club resales, but they are not marketing these to be in competition with the other HGVC properties.  So Bay Club is not even on a purchasers radar as a alternative to purchase.  They lack knowledge about the TS industry and resales and are buying a product they like from Hilton.  Every TS must be purchased from a developer first.  That vast majority of purchases never find out about TUG and resale at all, or they find out after it is too late to rescind.

So in my view there is NO issue and NO need to dump BC and stop receiving $$$ for the contract to manage BC.  The rumor persist, but is not originating from HGVC as far as I can uncover.


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## DEROS (Jan 19, 2009)

> So in my view there is NO issue and NO need to dump BC and stop receiving $$$ for the contract to manage BC. The rumor persist, but is not originating from HGVC as far as I can uncover.



Actually during my sales presentation a couple years back, it was mentioned that HGVC was contemplating about dropping Bay Club.  As a new prospect, I started to ask about what the difference between Bay Club and Waikoloa were.  I didn't understand at the time why you would have to timeshares development owned by the same company side by side.  (Like I said, I didn't know as much about the mechanics of timeshare) My sales person preceded to tell me that HGVC needed more rooms to accommodate all the HGVC members that wanted to come to the big island (Hook 1: You want to own Waikoloa so you have the best chance to reserve a week).  However, with Waikoloa fully developed and Kingsland starting to be developed, they will have enough rooms for both owners and other members (trading within 9mths).   So, I guess I perpetuated the rumor that Bay Club would be dropped, from my own experience.

Deros


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## benjaminb13 (Jan 19, 2009)

Hi Deros
I heard the same during my Kingsland presentation last year.  I can understand why HGVC would do this, but Im hoping its not true. BayClub has been useful to us. 
Like many other mainlanders, Planning a trip to Hawaii from California only makes sense if it is 10 days or more. HGVC waik gives me a week for sure,  but it is almost always full. If I cant find an HGVC waik reservation, to add to my seven days, I can always count on good old bayclub for openings. 
As far as Kingsland goes. Not much difference between Kingsland and Waik. in quality.  But Kingsland costs a lot more points. So once Hgvc drops bayclub- Big Island visitors will have to use to Kingsland and Bayclub.
Bad for us, good for HGVC.


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## ricoba (Jan 19, 2009)

Again, remember these statements were made by sales people trying to sell Kingsland or GW.  It is more than likely in their best interest to tell you the BC will close, simply because they don't want you to consider buying anything but what they were pushing.  

Just my two cents.


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## benjaminb13 (Jan 19, 2009)

I agree
Still, when you hear these statements over and over.... makes you start thinking. 
Oh well, Im hoping bayclub is here to stay. dont want to have to buy more points.


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## Sandy VDH (Jan 19, 2009)

It was a salesperson and their lips were moving.  Need I say more.


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## Harry (Jan 19, 2009)

*Actually, you got it exactly correct*



ricoba said:


> Again, remember these statements were made by sales people trying to sell Kingsland or GW.  It is more than likely in their best interest to tell you the BC will close, simply because they don't want you to consider buying anything but what they were pushing.
> 
> Just my two cents.



As an affiliate, Bay Club is subject to the same rules as others.  However, there are some underlying real property legal relationships with Hilton and Bay Club that will make it pretty tough to terminate the affiliation agreement.  One has to do with the land arrangement with the Hilton Grand Vacation Resort next door (not as nice a resort as the BC IMHO).  The other one is even more involved and I am not sure what it involves. I would estimate that this would be the last affiliate resort to go in the Hilton group.

Harry


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## benjaminb13 (Jan 24, 2009)

Sandy Lovell said:


> The reason I don't see this as COI is because the people HGVC is marketing to, and who purchase HGVC Waikoloa or Kingsland, are NOT the types who would buy resale.   They are NOT marketing Bay Club, they are managing the operations of Bay Club.  They have agents to handle Bay Club resales, but they are not marketing these to be in competition with the other HGVC properties.  So Bay Club is not even on a purchasers radar as a alternative to purchase.  They lack knowledge about the TS industry and resales and are buying a product they like from Hilton.  Every TS must be purchased from a developer first.  That vast majority of purchases never find out about TUG and resale at all, or they find out after it is too late to rescind.
> 
> So in my view there is NO issue and NO need to dump BC and stop receiving $$$ for the contract to manage BC.  The rumor persist, but is not originating from HGVC as far as I can uncover.



HI Sandy
Keep thinking about this
Your post makes perfect sense.
I cant understand why they keep perpetuating the"Disintigration of Bayclub" rumors?


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