# Owners of 3 bedroom Grand Chateau, Las Vegas - Did you notice?



## ral (Feb 20, 2008)

To those of us who own the unique three bedroom villa at Marriott's Grand Chateau in Las Vegas, have you noticed that there has been a change on the Interval International website in the kitchen designation of the one bedroom portion from "K" (full kitchen) to "LK" (limited kitchen)? I noticed the change a few weeks ago and called Interval International and then the Grand Chateau itself. I remember purchasing this unit preconstruction and being told that the three bedroom villa consisted of a two bedroom unit with full kitchen and a one bedroom unit with a full kitchen. The advantage was that splitting this villa would provide, for trading purposes, a two bedroom unit with a full kitchen and a one bedroom unit with a full kitchen. I spoke with Samantha Weber at Grand Chateau who stated that she was involved in this change. She mentioned that because there was no blender and the square footage of the kitchen was less than the other one bedroom units, that this was not a true “full kitchen.” I pursued the discussion stating that one could always request a blender, if really needed, and she agreed that housekeeping would supply one. I also mentioned that the square footage of kitchens is very different amongst the many Marriott Vacation Club properties, and also that properties outside of Marriott Vacation Club in Interval International have various sizes of “full kitchens.” I would hope that management at Marriott’s Grand Chateau can provide other means of differentiating amongst the one bedroom units without diminishing the value of the one bedroom unit of the three bedroom villa. Perhaps the dedicated one bedroom unit and the one bedroom unit of the two bedroom villa could be referred to as premium one bedroom units. To my understanding of a deposit first exchange with Interval International, the Grand Chateau one bedroom unit with the new designation “LK“ (limited kitchen) will only match with a one bedroom “LK” (limited kitchen) assuming that the designation is used by the requested property, in other words, like for like, eg. Westin Kierland has a smaller one bedroom (part of a two bedroom villa) with the designation “LK”, but this unit is not really comparable to the Grand Chateau unit as the Westin Kierland unit only has an under counter refrigerator, not a full size refrigerator, a two burner ceramic cooktop, not a four burner cooktop with an oven, and a combined microwave/convection oven (the size of an average microwave appliance). 

Samantha Weber also mentioned that I was the first person that she was aware of that has a problem with this changed designation. I mentioned that since the “LK” designation is new on the Interval International website, other owners may not have had time to recognize the difference. If you are concerned about your loss in trading power of this unit and would like to let management know that there are additional people who feel that this “limited kitchen” designation is inappropriate, you can reach Marriott’s Grand Chateau at telephone number 702-862-5600.


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## Lv2Trvl (Feb 20, 2008)

*Thanks for the heads-up!*

Hi Ral

Thank you for pointing this out.  It probably would have been a while before we caught it!  We just stayed in our 2-bedroom portion in January, and have not looked at the II site for the 1-bedroom portion for trading as of yet.
Will certainly do so now ...


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## kjd (Feb 20, 2008)

*Limited Kitchen designation-Question*

Thanks for the "heads up" on the LK change.  I will be using my 3BR in May and will take it up with the management then if they have not corrected this error.  In the meantime I will send an e mail to the appropriate person.  Can you tell us the e mail address and the person to direct it to?

Another question that I have is if you lock off the 3 br do you actually stay in the 2br portion of the unit or do they just give you a 2 br anywhere in the building?  As you know the 3brs have the more desireable corner view.  Thanks for your help.


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## dougp26364 (Feb 20, 2008)

I'll be taking that up with management also. The lack of a blender certainly doesn't take this from a full kitchen to a limited kitchen. I was recently at a Westin resort where the kitchen lacked a stove but was considered a full kitchen. It did have a blender but, somehow missing an oven seems a little more severe than a blender and I.I. refers to that kitchen as being a full kitchen. 

On the other hand, Some (most) of the French Quarter units don't have a stove but are refered to as a limited kitchen by I.I. Consistancy would be nice if nothing else.


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## gmarine (Feb 20, 2008)

Whether a unit has a full kitchen or a limited kitchen does not affect trade power. A limited kitchen can mean a unit has everything in a full kitchen except an oven. Many resorts in the caribbean have limited kitchens because of the lack of ovens. A limited kitchen can mean many different things and because of this it isnt taken into account with regards to trade power.

It is not true that when using a unit with limited kitchen to trade that you will only be matched to other units with a limited kitchen.

All in all it is nothing to be concerned about. It has no bearing whatsoever on trade power. The designation is only there so exchangers are aware of the facilities before making an exchange request.


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## myip (Feb 20, 2008)

*Kitchen size matter*



gmarine said:


> Whether a unit has a full kitchen or a limited kitchen does not affect trade power. A limited kitchen can mean a unit has everything in a full kitchen except an oven. Many resorts in the caribbean have limited kitchens because of the lack of ovens. A limited kitchen can mean many different things and because of this it isnt taken into account with regards to trade power.
> 
> It is not true that when using a unit with limited kitchen to trade that you will only be matched to other units with a limited kitchen.
> 
> All in all it is nothing to be concerned about. It has no bearing whatsoever on trade power. The designation is only there so exchangers are aware of the facilities before making an exchange request.



It does matter.  I own Sheraton Mountain Vista consists of 2 1-bedroom unit.
For the same week of searching, THe 1 bedroom full-size kitchen gets more results than the Limited Kitchen.  They don't trade equally.


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## gmarine (Feb 20, 2008)

myip said:


> It does matter.  I own Sheraton Mountain Vista consists of 2 1-bedroom unit.
> For the same week of searching, THe 1 bedroom full-size kitchen gets more results than the Limited Kitchen.  They don't trade equally.



Thats very surprising. If they both sleep 4 privately they should have equal trade power according to II.

I have spoken to several II exchange supervisors over the years as it pertained to one of my units. I was told by all of them that LK versus FK does not affect trading power. The exception was if the LK only had the typical kitchen facilities of a studio. Then trade power could be affected. But with a LK just missing one or two items of a FK I was told trade power is not affected.


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## TheTimeTraveler (Feb 20, 2008)

*Marriott Grand Chateau*

.


I read with interest the post on the new LK designation for the one bedroom units which have the smaller kitchen.

I know some of you wish to complain to the resort manager, but I don't believe it's their call.

I could be wrong, but I think corporate made the call, if not Interval International itself.

Best of luck at the gambling tables while in Las Vegas!


.


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## GaryDouglas (Feb 20, 2008)

... the lock-off also has a washer and dryer in the kitchen.  How many full kitchens have that?


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## thinze3 (Feb 20, 2008)

*LK vs. FK*



gmarine said:


> Thats very surprising. If they both sleep 4 privately they should have equal trade power according to II...




I do not understand how that could be correct, *all things else being equal*.

I know that I would not be as happy with a LK as I would with a full kitchen. Chances are, most people feel the same way. If this is indeed the case, why should (or how could) the two have equal trading power?

I would bet the OP has a very valid concern in the fact that they (MGC 3BR owners) will lose some trading power by the LK designation.

*IMO*


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## ral (Feb 20, 2008)

*Ask for it in writing*



gmarine said:


> Thats very surprising. If they both sleep 4 privately they should have equal trade power according to II.
> 
> I have spoken to several II exchange supervisors over the years as it pertained to one of my units. I was told by all of them that LK versus FK does not affect trading power. The exception was if the LK only had the typical kitchen facilities of a studio. Then trade power could be affected. But with a LK just missing one or two items of a FK I was told trade power is not affected.



Thank you for your response gmarine. I, too, have spoken to a Marriott liaison at Interval International and was given the same response as you, but when I asked for that information to be put in writing, the individual declined to do so. I again would suggest that management at Grand Chateau, Marriott Corporate and Interval International devise another way of differentiating the various one bedroom units at Grand Chateau, without diminishing the value of the one bedroom unit of the three bedroom villa.


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## myip (Feb 20, 2008)

gmarine said:


> Thats very surprising. If they both sleep 4 privately they should have equal trade power according to II.
> 
> I have spoken to several II exchange supervisors over the years as it pertained to one of my units. I was told by all of them that LK versus FK does not affect trading power. The exception was if the LK only had the typical kitchen facilities of a studio. Then trade power could be affected. But with a LK just missing one or two items of a FK I was told trade power is not affected.



Here is the result.  I search with my 1 bedroom full kitchen 

 Westin Mission Hills Resort Villas • WMH
Rancho Mirage, CA, USA
Resort Details & Photos
Jan 02 2009 - Jan 09 2009 	1 4 4	  	
Jan 02 2009 - Jan 09 2009 	1 4 4
Jan 02 2009 - Jan 09 2009 	2 8 8	  	
Jan 03 2009 - Jan 10 2009 	1 4 4	  	
Jan 03 2009 - Jan 10 2009 	1 4 4	  	
Jan 03 2009 - Jan 10 2009 	2 8 8


For the limited Kitchen I see:

 Westin Mission Hills Resort Villas • WMH
Rancho Mirage, CA, USA
Resort Details & Photos
Jan 02 2009 - Jan 09 2009 	1 4 4	  	
Jan 02 2009 - Jan 09 2009 	1 4 4	  	
Jan 03 2009 - Jan 10 2009 	1 4 4	  	
Jan 03 2009 - Jan 10 2009 	1 4 4

As you see, in full kitchen, you can see 2 bedroom.


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## GrayFal (Feb 20, 2008)

gmarine said:


> Thats very surprising. If they both sleep 4 privately they should have equal trade power according to II.
> 
> I have spoken to several II exchange supervisors over the years as it pertained to one of my units. I was told by all of them that LK versus FK does not affect trading power. The exception was if the LK only had the typical kitchen facilities of a studio. Then trade power could be affected. But with a LK just missing one or two items of a FK I was told trade power is not affected.



I believe Renn Aruba has an LK designation - but since you don't have anything 'equal' to compare it to - it is hard to say how it affects tradeability.
Fairway of the Mountains USED to trade differently but then the resort upgraded the 'second' kitchen to a full kitchen by installing ovens so now both are designated as 1BR sleep 4 private K...
Sheraton PGA - both 'halves' have full kitchens so trade the same.


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## ral (Feb 20, 2008)

kjd said:


> Thanks for the "heads up" on the LK change.  I will be using my 3BR in May and will take it up with the management then if they have not corrected this error.  In the meantime I will send an e mail to the appropriate person.  Can you tell us the e mail address and the person to direct it to?
> 
> Another question that I have is if you lock off the 3 br do you actually stay in the 2br portion of the unit or do they just give you a 2 br anywhere in the building?  As you know the 3brs have the more desireable corner view.  Thanks for your help.



Hi kjd,

The person to whom I spoke was Samantha Weber. I did not get her email address, but I am sure you could obtain it if you call the Grand Chateau (702-862-5600).

I did split my 3 bedroom villa into the two bedroom and one bedroom, depositing the one bedroom in II. We did receive the two bedroom unit of the three bedroom villa. I would verify your receiving the two bedroom portion of the three bedroom villa when confirming the reservation. There is probably a four letter code that designates this specific unit, but I am not positive what it would be (perhaps THMV, based on a past deposit in II of that two bedroom unit.)


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## gmarine (Feb 20, 2008)

thinze3 said:


> I do not understand how that could be correct, *all things else being equal*.
> 
> I know that I would not be as happy with a LK as I would with a full kitchen. Chances are, most people feel the same way. If this is indeed the case, why should (or how could) the two have equal trading power?
> 
> ...



It could be correct because the difference between a LK and a FK can be very slight. For example if a unit has everything except an oven, it gets the LK designation. Or has a small refrig rather than full size. Or no coffee pot. And so on.  In instances like these trading power is equal. If a unit gets the LK designation because the LK is just a frig, microwave, coffeepot
 etc then trading power may be affected.

As I said, I have been told many times over the years by II supervisors that LK versus FK has no bearing on trade power unless the kitchen is similar to a studio kitchen which just has a frig, microwave, coffeepot.
Tomorrow I will give a call to one of the supervisors I have a contact for at II and see if I can get an answer.


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## gmarine (Feb 20, 2008)

myip said:


> Here is the result.  I search with my 1 bedroom full kitchen
> 
> Westin Mission Hills Resort Villas • WMH
> Rancho Mirage, CA, USA
> ...



What are the facilities in the LK ? I checked myself. It appears the LK is missing an oven and only minor other things which I have been told dont affect trading power. I would call II and ask why you have different trade power. I'm curious as to the answer.


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## dhole (Feb 20, 2008)

*Back to the Issue*

IF I read the first post correctly, this kitchen is being classified as limited because there isn't a blender on the counter?  I too am an owner of a 3bedroom MGC and we were told repeatedly that this lock off is a "Full one bedroom"  We have used the unit a number of times and never noticed that the blender was missing!  We enjoyed the full size Fridge, complete cooking utensils, washer and dryer and dishwasher and full size sink.  I wonder what was the motivation for MGC to change this.  I really don't believe that square footage defines whether the kitchen is limited, but rather the ability to create and serve a full meal for the 4 people who can stay in the unit.  Based on that criteria, these ARE NOT limited kitchens because the margarita maker is not present.


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## gmarine (Feb 20, 2008)

I have been told by my resort and by II that the classification of LK versus FK comes from II, not from the resort.


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## ral (Feb 21, 2008)

gmarine said:


> I have been told by my resort and by II that the classification of LK versus FK comes from II, not from the resort.



In this case, Samantha Weber, at Marriott's Grand Chateau, indicated that management at Grand Chateau was involved with this decision along with Interval International. Talk to her for the particulars.


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## Pit (Feb 21, 2008)

The larger question here is how does II define LK and K? I recently stayed in a 2 Bdrm Hyatt property (Beach House), and while it was listed as having a full kitchen it did not have an oven (only microwave). It did have blender though.


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## sage (Feb 23, 2008)

We too own a 3br at MGC. We stayed in the 2br l/o in late Jan.
We bought after being told that the 1 br was a full kitchen as well. Interval, or whoever has re-classified the 1br part, should take a long hard look at the situation as many t/s with limited kitchens only have a sink, , bench, toaster and coffee maker. An oven shouldn't be the decider as most have stove tops and microwaves. A blender or square footage does not make a full kitchen - the cooking facilities do.

KJD,
We stayed in the actual 2br l/o. We rquested it about 2 weeks out when Marriott sent us a request form via email asking for preferences. We stated that we were owners of a 3br and wished to stay away from the lifts in a corner unit.
When we arrived they had allocated us a unit in tower 2 in a room that was brand new. We would have been the first to stay in it. However, due to the "newness" we had to ask for another room as I am allergic to the smell from all the furniture "gassing off" (emitting formaldehyde and other chemical odours).
We ended up with a 2br l/o in tower one. Excellent.


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## dougp26364 (Feb 23, 2008)

sage said:


> We too own a 3br at MGC. We stayed in the 2br l/o in late Jan.
> We bought after being told that the 1 br was a full kitchen as well. Interval, or whoever has re-classified the 1br part, should take a long hard look at the situation as many t/s with limited kitchens only have a sink, , bench, toaster and coffee maker. An oven shouldn't be the decider as most have stove tops and microwaves. A blender or square footage does not make a full kitchen - the cooking facilities do.
> 
> KJD,
> ...



As the owner of a 3 bedroom unit you will always be assigned the master suite of that unit. That means you'll always be at the end of the hallway away from the lifts. The layout of the master suite of the 3 bedroom unit is unique and different from the regular 2 bedroom units.

We also own a 3 bedroom unit at Ocean Pointe. We have always reserved the 2 bedroom master suite and have always been assigned the 2 bedroom master suite of that type unit rather than the standard 2 bedroom unit (they have ocean front in both configurations). 

In fact, knowing the configurations of these units should help you pick them out when exchanging online. At Ocean Pointe the 3 bedroom ocean front master suite is a 6/6 configuartion that has two single beds listed in the second bedroom and one sofa sleeper rather than a king size bed and two sofa sleepers. The standard 2 bedroom unit at Ocean Pointe's configuration is 6/8.

The two bedroom master suite at Grand Chateau sleeps a total of 8 people but the beds would be listed as 2 double beds in the guest room and one sofa sleeper rather than a king bed in the guest room and 2 sofa sleepers.


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## TheTimeTraveler (Feb 23, 2008)

*Marriott's Grand Chateau in Las Vegas*

.


There's been a lot of discussion about the new LK designation for the one bedroom unit which is missing the blender.

Does anyone know if a desirable studio would fetch a LK unit in trade other than within the 60 flexible trading time frame?


.


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## dougp26364 (Feb 24, 2008)

Pit said:


> The larger question here is how does II define LK and K? I recently stayed in a 2 Bdrm Hyatt property (Beach House), and while it was listed as having a full kitchen it did not have an oven (only microwave). It did have blender though.



Ditto with the Westin Kierland in Scottsdale. It was listed as a full kitchen but only had a cook top. But, it did have that all important blender. Somehow it seems to me that not having an oven may be a larger issue than not having a blender. Although it is a little tougher making those frozen frilly fru fru drinks in an oven.


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## Wally3433 (Feb 24, 2008)

myip said:


> Here is the result.  I search with my 1 bedroom full kitchen
> 
> Westin Mission Hills Resort Villas • WMH
> Rancho Mirage, CA, USA
> ...



It seems to me that this example ends all discussion on LK vs. FK.  Obviously for this resort it makes a difference.  Gmarine, can you do a similar inquiry and see what you come up with?  If it's different, you have, in my opinion, a huge problem of misrepresention at the time you purchased your unit.  Please do an inquiry to prove your assumption.


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## m61376 (Feb 24, 2008)

To really be sure if it makes a difference, wouldn't it be best to have a 2BR and a 3BR unit coordinate a trade test, each using their 1BR side? Of course, if there are any owners of both size units they would be the ideal testers.


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## ral (Feb 24, 2008)

myip said:


> Here is the result.  I search with my 1 bedroom full kitchen
> 
> Westin Mission Hills Resort Villas • WMH
> Rancho Mirage, CA, USA
> ...



Thank you, myip, for performing the above searches. Using your example, one  can see that there is clearly a difference when searching with a full kitchen vs. a limited kitchen. Out of curiosity, using the full kitchen search and then the limited kitchen search, are you able to differentiate whether the one bedroom matches are full kitchens or limited kitchens?


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## myip (Feb 24, 2008)

ral said:


> Thank you, myip, for performing the above searches. Using your example, one  can see that there is clearly a difference when searching with a full kitchen vs. a limited kitchen. Out of curiosity, using the full kitchen search and then the limited kitchen search, are you able to differentiate whether the one bedroom matches are full kitchens or limited kitchens?


Yes.  the limited kitchen can see both the  1 bedroom full Kitchen and 1 bedroom limited kitchen.  It just not able to see 2 bedroom unit.


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## ral (Mar 6, 2008)

Has anyone contacted either Marriott Grand Chateau or Interval International about this situation? If so, what reponse did you receive? I have been in contact with them, but have not received any further information.


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## Lv2Trvl (Mar 7, 2008)

We have spoken with our sales rep at Grand Chateau, just this past Monday, he is pursuing the  question.  When he gets back to us, if anything of substance, we'll post it.  We think it is important to keep after this issue - it really does have an impact on our use of the one bedroom portion.


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## kjd (Mar 11, 2008)

*MGC--Full Kitchen 1BR*

For what it's worth:  Just locked off my 3 br at MGC yesterday.  I noticed today that II is carrying the 1 br as a full kitchen listed under the "my history" section.  Perhaps the problem has been solved by Tuggers calling it to their attention.  I also asked the Marriott rep about it and she hadn't heard about the problem.  She didn't think that the LK would cause a trading problem because of the excellent location of MGC.  She also said that MGC was in high demand based on what comes across her desk.  She mentioned that she visited MGC about three months ago.


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## dougp26364 (Mar 11, 2008)

I'll have to take a look at my I.I. account. I locked off and deposited my 1 bedroom unit a couple of days ago and it was still listed as a LK. I used the I.I. link in the confirmation E-mail they sent me to question why it was an LK when it had a full size refigerator, full stove, microwave oven and dishwasher when the one bedroom I had a Westin's Kierland Villa's had all of this EXCEPT for a stove and was still listed as a full kitchen.


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## dougp26364 (Mar 11, 2008)

Just checked. My deposit is now listed as a K instead of an LK. 

Personally I was waiting for the excuse that the unit didn't have a blender. It seems to me that would be something that could be rectified with very little effort or money. That 12 speed Hamilton Beach blender counldn't cost that much to put in those units. Maybe Marriott agreed to put them in if that was I.I.'s issue coming back from the comment cards.


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## Lv2Trvl (Mar 11, 2008)

*Back to "K"*

We just received this morning an email from our sales rep at Grand Chateau, that all has been changed back to full kitchen.  We checked and ours is good!


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## dougp26364 (Mar 11, 2008)

I just finished with the owners forum at MGC and asked what was going on. This apparently was a decision made by MGC management to distinguish the difference between the LO one bedroom of the 3 bedroom unit and the other 1 bedroom units available. They had a conference call this morning with I.I. and the designation was changed back to K from LK. 

I guess they'll have to come up with some other way to distinguish this unit from the others. 

I also asked about confirming into a specific unit designation (Some units can be distinguished if you know the room layouts/sleeping arrangements/amenities) and the answer was you will get the style unit style in your exchange. IOW, if you accept a 1 bedroom at MGC that lists a bathtub/shower combination rather than a bathtub and seperate shower, you know that you'll be put into the 1 bedroom LO of the 3 bedroom unit instead of one of the other 1 bedroom units.

Another distinguishing charachteristic of the 1 bedroom LO of the 3 bedroom unit, at least at this time, is that the 1 bedroom LO of the 3 bedroom unit does not have a plasma screen TV.


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## GaryDouglas (Mar 11, 2008)

Good news and thanks for the detective work...


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