# DVC direct vs resale questions



## tophunter85 (Jul 7, 2017)

I know I'm new to TUG and TUG BBS but we've been rolling DVC around in our heads ever since we got back from our last vacation. We have some questions about direct vs resale in relation to how you can use resale points. Our most likely scenario would be to buy a bulk of our points resale (We would like to purchase at BWV or BCV but the downside to this would be the shorter contract therefore the shorter available time to enjoy our home resort) then add on 25-50 points direct from DVC to one of the newer resorts, Aulani most likely since Hawaii would be a common secondary destination as well. Talk to me about how I can use the resale points vs how the direct points can be used? Since we would be members in our own right after getting direct points would we be able to pull from the pool of our entire points to book cruises or use in the RCI exchanges? I'm a little confused in how this all works together. We would want to enjoy our vacation time for as long as possible without having to re-purchase a longer contract to continue the fun down the road. Thanks!


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## rhonda (Jul 8, 2017)

All DVC points, regardless of source, may be used through RCI and, of course, within the network of DVC resorts.  While buying a small contract direct will, for now, provide access to the Member Extras program (member events and discounts), it does not change the status of previously purchased resale points.  The resale points will not be permitted for booking the Disney Collection (Disney Hotels, Cruises) or Concierge Collection (small collection of high-end resorts and hotels) through DVC's Member Services.

However ... outside services, such as David's Vacation Club, will accept any/all DVC points, regardless of source, as rentals.  Such services can convert your points to cash.  They've also added a service of acting as your cruise booking agent in case you wish that assistance once your points are converted to cash.


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## littlestar (Jul 8, 2017)

I would buy just enough DVC resale points to cover your DVC resort stays and if the Disney annual pass discount is important, add on a 25 point DVC contract direct through Disney. The only perk that is really worth anything is the annual pass discount. Using DVC points for cruises or the other options is not a good value. I would pay cash for the cruises. Only direct points can be used for the cruises or concierge collection but it is a poor value to use the points for those options anyway. A retail purchase of DVC points does not change the status of your existing resale DVC points.

Resale points can be used for RCI.  I have never used our DVC points for trading. Think of DVC points as a Mercedes and when you trade them you are trading down almost every time (a trade into Hilton would be an exception). We purchased low cost, low maintenance fee Wyndham resale points (under $1,000) that we use to trade through RCI or we use them for Wyndham internal bookings.

At seven months, all DVC points are equal when it comes to booking DVC resorts. We have had good luck using our SSR points to book other DVC resorts right at the seven month window during the third week of January, early May, and last week of September. Now BCV during food and wine is almost impossible to book without the 11 month window. One bedrooms are easier than studios, though.

One other thing, if you end up with more than one home resort, try to keep the same use year. That way you can combine the points at your seven month window and keep everything under one membership number.


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## rickandcindy23 (Jul 8, 2017)

Agree with littlestar.  I haven't had much trouble getting even Aulani at 7 months.  Certain unit types can be tough to get at some resorts, like VGC.  

Buy the lesser expensive resorts resale and get more points for your money and use those points for the more expensive resorts.  

We own OKW and Saratoga and are looking for more of those two resorts; although VGC is on my radar as well.  

I am thinking of buying more points to add our son and daughter-in-law, then I would add 25 points through DVC directly for the annual pass discount.  The discount offer I received yesterday was substantial.


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## tophunter85 (Jul 8, 2017)

We would be taking trips eo yr so the AP wouldn't really make sense. How about using resale points for the Adventures?


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## Southerngirl528 (Jul 8, 2017)

littlestar said:


> Resale points can be used for RCI. I have never used our DVC points for trading. Think of DVC points as a Mercedes and when you trade them you are trading down almost every time (a trade into Hilton would be an exception).





littlestar said:


> One other thing, if you end up with more than one home resort, try to keep the same use year. That way you can combine the points at your seven month window and keep everything under one membership number.



I agree with the above.

While most folks will say to "never" use DVC points for DCL cruises, I have done it multiple times. But I bought in the early 90's when a considerably larger package of points was required as a minimum purchase so I have a nice amount of points. And I have done the math for my actual cost/value in doing so. Though I have used my DVC points for cruises on numerous occasions over the years, I would never recommend someone buy DVC with the intent of booking lots of cruises. Disney cruises are pricey with very rare substantive discounts offered. 

Resales points may only be used for DVC resorts and exchanges through RCI. Only. Adventures by Disney is part of the "Disney Collection" along with DCL and Disney hotels and resale points purchased now may NOT be used. Every person I have ever spoken to that did an ABD trip raved about it, but WOW, are they expensive!!!


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## rhonda (Jul 8, 2017)

Resale points cannot be used through Disney to book Adventures by Disney.  Again, consider converting the points to cash by renting them out and then booking ABD on cash.


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## Southerngirl528 (Jul 8, 2017)

rickandcindy23 said:


> I haven't had much trouble getting even Aulani at 7 months



This is true if one is not trying to book either a hotel room or the least expensive views. I've booked stays at Aulani 4 different trips, and have had no trouble at 7 months but I book Ocean View only. Much easier to book for non-Aulani members.



rickandcindy23 said:


> The discount offer I received yesterday was substantial.



It surely is! Heard about it a couple of days ago and wow! I have a couple of CM friends that are DVC Members that are looking to buy AP's at those prices.


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## ljmiii (Jul 8, 2017)

To reinforce what others have said, DVC points are an extraordinary expense way to buy into RCI or DCL cruises or pretty much anything but using them at a DVC resort or renting them for cash.

Also, I have read many people say that adding on 25 direct points after buying resale has been worthwhile to them. However, I would strongly suggest that you buy them at the same resort and use year as your resale points- even banked and borrowed 75 points aren't going to much by themselves.


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## tophunter85 (Jul 8, 2017)

How about using dvc points to book at the international disney locations? I assume these would count as disney hotels and aren't included in the dvc group.


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## rhonda (Jul 8, 2017)

Right -- the international Disney hotels fall under the "Disney Collection."  Book via Cash or "qualified" DVC points (retail).

Edited to add:  Resale points may be used for reservations at all DVC resorts and for RCI exchanges.  It is that simple.


			
				DVC Member Website said:
			
		

> Effective March 21, 2011, Members who do not purchase their Ownership Interests directly from Disney will not be able to use those Vacation Points to make reservations for the Concierge or Disney Collections. Those Vacation Points can be used only for Disney Vacation Club Resorts and the World Collection.


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## bnoble (Jul 8, 2017)

There is no reason to ever consider buying points from Disney today for the purpose of taking cruises, guided tours, or staying in non-DVC but Disney-owned hotels. Using points in that way---particularly at current pricing---ranges from a poor value to a spectacularly poor one. For most people, in most situations, the most attractive option will be to buy resale at a resort at which you would not mind staying most of the time.

(Before someone chimes in with "I use my points for cruises all the time and it is great" -- Yes, some people who purchased long ago may get better value from their points. That doesn't matter to anyone considering a purchase today.)

The only reason in the current market to buy _any_ points from Disney is to buy a 25-point add-on to be eligible for the AP discount. The other discounts/perks are nice but (a) don't really matter in terms of real dollars saved and (b) could change any time. Therefore:


tophunter85 said:


> We would be taking trips eo yr so the AP wouldn't really make sense


Then you have no reason to buy points from Disney at this time.


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## ljmiii (Jul 8, 2017)

bnoble said:


> The only reason in the current market to buy _any_ points from Disney is to buy a 25-point add-on to be eligible for the AP discount. The other discounts/perks are nice but (a) don't really matter in terms of real dollars saved and (b) could change any time.


While I agree for the most part I would amend this to say "The only FINANCIAL reason...". There are people who are quite happy to have paid the spread between direct and resale on 25 points (somewhere around $1500 depending on the resort) to get to go to the DVC member parties, go on the DVC member cruises, go to the DVC member lounge, etc. And while it certainly is true that these 'membership privileges' could change at any time, the clear trend-line is for these experiences to become more common as DVC tries to use 'membership' vs 'ownership' to enhance direct sales.


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## Southerngirl528 (Jul 8, 2017)

ljmiii said:


> And while it certainly is true that these 'membership privileges' could change at any time, the clear trend-line is for these experiences to become more common as DVC tries to use 'membership' vs 'ownership' to enhance direct sales.



I look for DVC to step up the disparity between resale and direct purchased points. My guess is that they will increase the minimum purchase for DVC purchased points for those holding resale deeds. And I would not be surprised to see them limit usage to the home resort. All speculation, but living right here at Disney's door, I have many friends, neighbors and colleagues with close ties to DVC.  

One reason a lot of folks buy direct from any TS is that they can get financing. Lots of people do not have the funds readily available to pay cash. I am not saying I agree with this, as it greatly increases the cost of ownership (TS finance fees are generally 12% and more!).


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## littlestar (Jul 9, 2017)

Southerngirl528 said:


> And I would not be surprised to see them limit usage to the home resort. All speculation, but living right here at Disney's door, I have many friends, neighbors and colleagues with close ties to DVC.



I do not think they could do it because of the way the documents read. Not to say that they would probably like to do it if they could.


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## bendadin (Jul 9, 2017)

rhonda said:


> Right -- the international Disney hotels fall under the "Disney Collection."  Book via Cash or "qualified" DVC points (retail).
> 
> Edited to add:  Resale points may be used for reservations at all DVC resorts and for RCI exchanges.  It is that simple.




BUT, the amenities stay with the points, so if you transfer in points that do not have resale/grandfathered restrictions (meaning old points) then you should be able to use them for cruises, Collection, etc (not that it would be cost effective, though.)


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## bnoble (Jul 9, 2017)

Southerngirl528 said:


> And I would not be surprised to see them limit usage to the home resort.


Littlestar is correct. The ability to exchange internally is a per-resort property, not a per-deed property. It's either all or nothing.

That's not to say that Disney couldn't create a "new" club, that only qualified points in the existing club could book. This is similar to what Wyndham did when they created Presidential Reserve. But, the now-existing resorts would still be under the old rules with respect to each other.


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## bnoble (Jul 9, 2017)

ljmiii said:


> While I agree for the most part I would amend this to say "The only FINANCIAL reason...". There are people who are quite happy to have paid the spread between direct and resale on 25 points (somewhere around $1500 depending on the resort) to get to go to the DVC member parties, go on the DVC member cruises, go to the DVC member lounge, etc. And while it certainly is true that these 'membership privileges' could change at any time, the clear trend-line is for these experiences to become more common as DVC tries to use 'membership' vs 'ownership' to enhance direct sales.


It is true that Disney is remarkably adept at creating a Reality Distortion Field around Membership.


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## chalee94 (Jul 10, 2017)

Southerngirl528 said:


> And I would not be surprised to see them limit usage to the home resort.



I agree with littlestar that this is not possible.

Even if it were possible, remember that limiting a resale BCV owner from trading out of BCV also limits big-money direct purchasers from trading into BCV, so it would be a decision akin to sawing off the tree branch you are standing on...


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## cayman01 (Jul 12, 2017)

For the OP let me make this as clear as possible. You use Disney points for Disney stays and that is it. If you can't use points rent them out and make a nice profit. You do NOT use points for ANYTHING ELSE. It becomes prohibitively expensive. Buy RESALE at OKW, AKV or SSR. These will get you the most bang for your buck. In the case of OKW make sure they have the later expiration date.

Now, if you want to make it really interesting buy TWICE the amount of points you need. Rent out half of them each year to pay for ALL your maintenance and enjoy free Disney vacations. Only do this if you can afford it financially. It's the only way I would buy into Disney. I find Disney to be ridiculously expensive otherwise.

If you want to get into RCI, buy RCI points for next to nothing or a Wyndham resort for nearly the same and use those to trade. NEVER use Disney points for a trade. You usually end up on the short end of the trade.


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## bnoble (Jul 12, 2017)

cayman01 said:


> buy TWICE the amount of points you need


IMO, this is a bad idea. The ROI is modest---you could probably do just as well with a long-term broad-market index fund, and DVC rentals are much more volatile in that it is highly sensitive to economic swings, price of oil (flights), etc.


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## ljmiii (Jul 12, 2017)

cayman01 said:


> Buy RESALE at OKW, AKV or SSR. These will get you the most bang for your buck. In the case of OKW make sure they have the later expiration date...I find Disney to be ridiculously expensive otherwise...


Assuming the OP is still listening...

While I agree with cayman01's comments on using DVC points and RCI I must disagree on his other advice.

First you should buy where you want to stay. It is getting harder and harder to get reservations at 7 months out at high demand times - school vacations, holidays, and 'Adventure Season' (when DVC villas are cheapest) - anywhere but OKW and SSR. So if your heart yearns for the Bay Lake Tower or Grand Floridian you should buy there.

Second, of the three timeshare systems into which I bought DVC has been by far the most financially rewarding. Not only have the value of my DVC points on the resale market appreciated but the spread between my MFs and the cash price of on-property stays is ridiculous.  That said (and to a certain extent contradicting my earlier advice on 'buy where you want to stay') at this point I would avoid contracts that end in 2042. 2022 is only five years away and at that point people will start to pay serious attention to that RTU end date.


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## tgenerso (Jul 18, 2017)

I'm looking at buying 50 points from Disney and then buying a resale contract to add to that amount but I haven't pulled the trigger.  Since we are season pass holders it would save me about $1k a year in annual pass fee's so I'm looking at around 3 years of annual passes as a break even with what I'm seeing resales go for now days.  I get it, that could change, the annual pass discount could change, etc but long story short with the $1k I'll save this year and the usage we'll get I think it will be worth it.


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## chalee94 (Jul 19, 2017)

tgenerso said:


> I'm looking at buying 50 points from Disney and then buying a resale contract to add to that amount but I haven't pulled the trigger.  Since we are season pass holders it would save me about $1k a year in annual pass fee's so I'm looking at around 3 years of annual passes as a break even with what I'm seeing resales go for now days.  I get it, that could change, the annual pass discount could change, etc but long story short with the $1k I'll save this year and the usage we'll get I think it will be worth it.



1) most would recommend starting with a resale and then adding on direct (easier to get the same UY month)
2) as you noted, the AP discount is currently great and has been great for a while (but it can always go away at any time, for both direct and resale purchasers.)


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## ljmiii (Jul 19, 2017)

As chalee94 said, switch it around. Buy resale first so that you can buy at any resort you want - it is difficult for a new buyer to buy anywhere direct from DVC other than what is currently on offer. And once you are a resale owner it is easy to add direct from Disney, you can get the Use Year you need, and as an owner your minimum purchase is 25 points (except for the new Copper Creek Villas (CCV) which have a 50 point minimum). For most resorts DVC will have availability that day, for some like the Grand Floridian it might take a few weeks. The exception is the Grand Californian Villas (GCV) which would entail a very long wait to buy direct.

At just 25 points the spread between direct and resale is only around $1,500 - which would be only a year and a half to recoup in AP discounts.


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## vacationhopeful (Jul 19, 2017)

I brought resale DVC/AKV 90 points BEFORE the resale restrictions were added. I use or rent out my points every 3 years... 270 points makes a nice vacation stay or a good ROI on the MFs. Now, if I only could snag a RCI exchange week in the same window as my Annual Pass (of every 3 years), I would truly be a happy in my small world at WDW.

PS Yes, I could stay at Bonnet Creek ... but I am one spoil person who love EMHs and not having to rent a rental car.


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## Dean (Jul 23, 2017)

tophunter85 said:


> I know I'm new to TUG and TUG BBS but we've been rolling DVC around in our heads ever since we got back from our last vacation. We have some questions about direct vs resale in relation to how you can use resale points. Our most likely scenario would be to buy a bulk of our points resale (We would like to purchase at BWV or BCV but the downside to this would be the shorter contract therefore the shorter available time to enjoy our home resort) then add on 25-50 points direct from DVC to one of the newer resorts, Aulani most likely since Hawaii would be a common secondary destination as well. Talk to me about how I can use the resale points vs how the direct points can be used? Since we would be members in our own right after getting direct points would we be able to pull from the pool of our entire points to book cruises or use in the RCI exchanges? I'm a little confused in how this all works together. We would want to enjoy our vacation time for as long as possible without having to re-purchase a longer contract to continue the fun down the road. Thanks!


I'd agree with the bulk of the consensus here.  I'd buy resale first then buy 25 retail second.  You cannot use non qualified points even if some are qualified, unlike Bluegreen for example.  I don't believe in the "buy where you want to stay" mantra because many don't actually know where that is when buying and almost 100% of those new to DVC don't know but often think they do though some will GUESS right.  I'd suggest buy where you don't mind staying though for those who are knowledgeable and have experience, they can be the same thing.  Never buy for cash type exchanges, there has never been a time in DVC history where it made sense to do so and it's infinitely worse today than it was early on.  The actual value of what you're give up is still what it is today, not what one paid 10 or 20 years ago though for those who own with the options, it can make sense in a very limited number of situations.

IMO the best way to do this is about 6 months of active investigation, have a certain amount of on property Disney experience and at least some DVC experience.  Usually this means at least 1 or 2 DVC rentals of some type either in the past or going forward.  One of the big mistakes many new to DVC make is trying to get that next trip on points and count that as part of their savings.  Usually that means they make poor choices of home resort, contract qualify, retail vs resale and number of points.  If one is going to buy without going through this process, I'd buy the best value and best UY regardless where they think they want going forward, normally that's SSR.  Then give it a try a trip or 2 then see how it goes.  For that plan, I'd delay the retail purchase until the longer term plans are settled.  But I do agree that the best situation, when one is knowledgeable enough, is to plan the resale and retail as a package and buy the resale first.  Don't forget UY can be VERY important and where it's not, everyone is taking more risk owning DVC than if they could chose a good UY.


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## qwerty (Jul 23, 2017)

Dean said:


> I'd agree with the bulk of the consensus here.  I'd buy resale first then buy 25 retail second.  You cannot use non qualified points even if some are qualified, unlike Bluegreen for example.  I don't believe in the "buy where you want to stay" mantra because many don't actually know where that is when buying and almost 100% of those new to DVC don't know but often think they do though some will GUESS right.  I'd suggest buy where you don't mind staying though for those who are knowledgeable and have experience, they can be the same thing.  Never buy for cash type exchanges, there has never been a time in DVC history where it made sense to do so and it's infinitely worse today than it was early on.  The actual value of what you're give up is still what it is today, not what one paid 10 or 20 years ago though for those who own with the options, it can make sense in a very limited number of situations.
> 
> IMO the best way to do this is about 6 months of active investigation, have a certain amount of on property Disney experience and at least some DVC experience.  Usually this means at least 1 or 2 DVC rentals of some type either in the past or going forward.  One of the big mistakes many new to DVC make is trying to get that next trip on points and count that as part of their savings.  Usually that means they make poor choices of home resort, contract qualify, retail vs resale and number of points.  If one is going to buy without going through this process, I'd buy the best value and best UY regardless where they think they want going forward, normally that's SSR.  Then give it a try a trip or 2 then see how it goes.  For that plan, I'd delay the retail purchase until the longer term plans are settled.  But I do agree that the best situation, when one is knowledgeable enough, is to plan the resale and retail as a package and buy the resale first.  Don't forget UY can be VERY important and where it's not, everyone is taking more risk owning DVC than if they could chose a good UY.



Although you suggest buying SSR, we only want to stay at Boardwalk or the Beach club.
Because of the reservation window, we don't want to take the chance of not staying there.
We can travel when ever we want and are able to plan in advance. 

I do see both on resale now and then, but quickly sell.

When you buy 25 points "retail" after buying a resale, do they take on the same home resort?

Also, what are some resale sites?


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## elaine (Jul 23, 2017)

you can buy any use year and any resort as a 25 point direct purchase from DVC as an add on, to the extent it is available. We had VWL sept and did a 35 point add on at HHI with an Oct UY (bc they didn't have sept avail). That 35 point add on qualified us for DVC DCL members cruise.


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## Dean (Jul 23, 2017)

qwerty said:


> Although you suggest buying SSR, we only want to stay at Boardwalk or the Beach club.
> Because of the reservation window, we don't want to take the chance of not staying there.
> We can travel when ever we want and are able to plan in advance.
> 
> ...


If you're truly informed and know from on property and DVC experience that you want the EPCOT area, I'd buy there.  To clarify, I didn't suggest you buy SSR, only that for some situations it was the best option and for those that were jumping in before they are truly educated, it is almost always the best option.  Many think they know what they want but often are wrong in the end.  I would suggest if you're truly flexible, learn the system, plan ahead and use the wait list; BWV is very workable at 7 months out even for the fall events and early Dec, but it will be a struggle and you may not get standard view.  BWV should be fairly available in general to buy resale.  Actually I have an owner who just today was asking me about selling privately and how to do so but it didn't sound like they had a buyer.  I don't know the UY or how many points but if you want to contact me privately, I could likely get you together to see if it would be a win-win.  



elaine said:


> you can buy any use year and any resort as a 25 point direct purchase from DVC as an add on, to the extent it is available. We had VWL sept and did a 35 point add on at HHI with an Oct UY (bc they didn't have sept avail). That 35 point add on qualified us for DVC DCL members cruise.


Normally they'll require the same UY but on rare occasions they've waived the minimum in this situation where they didn't have the same UY available.  IMO one should wait and get the same UY.  Better to have the same UY and a different resort than the same resort different UY for very small contracts for almost all situations IMO.  There have actually been a couple of reports of new buyers being able to buy 25 pts but only a couple and the last I saw this was about 2 years ago.


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## Weimaraner (Jul 23, 2017)

I'd be a Dvc owner by now but am so overwhelmed by the choices in resorts and can't decide which one to make  my home. Plus I get to hear from my sales rep every time I take a trip anywhere near Orlando


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