# Marriott NCV Re-Sale Dept Made an Offer



## Green Eyed Hapa (Jul 25, 2012)

Marriott Newport Coast Re-sale dept. contacted us by e-mail, since we were on a wait list to sell back that we got on a couple years ago.

Here is what they offered:
"The current list price for a Platinum 2 Bedroom unit is $16,900. After commission (40% of sale price), approximate net proceeds would be $10,140.

We bought direct from Marriott in 2005 for around $23,000 (cash -:hysterical: I know "Not a smart move. But, we didn't know about the resale market back then.)

We don't use and rent out every year for around $1900 (approx. $1000 goes to pay maintenance fee + OC County tax)

QUESTIONS:
1) Is this a good offer?
2) Is it wise to sell?
3) Will there be Federal & Calif. State Tax liabilities?

Thanks for any help


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## larryallen (Jul 25, 2012)

Green Eyed Hapa said:


> Marriott Newport Coast Re-sale dept. contacted us by e-mail, since we were on a wait list to sell back that we got on a couple years ago.
> 
> Here is what they offered:
> "The current list price for a Platinum 2 Bedroom unit is $16,900. After commission (40% of sale price), approximate net proceeds would be $10,140.
> ...



1) Seems like a fair price to me.
2) If it's easy to rent might just want to save it since you make a profit.
3) No. You are selling at a loss.


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## Beefnot (Jul 25, 2012)

You could sell for $10k and then buy it right back off ebay for $7-$8k.  Tah-dah.


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## jont (Jul 25, 2012)

40% Comission? OUCH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
How about you list it on ebay for 10-12K and give marriott nothing.


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## Green Eyed Hapa (Jul 25, 2012)

larryallen said:


> 1) Seems like a fair price to me.
> 2) If it's easy to rent might just want to save it since you make a profit.
> 3) No. You are selling at a loss.



Thanks for the input. Still contemplating based on the rental profit.


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## Green Eyed Hapa (Jul 25, 2012)

Beefnot said:


> You could sell for $10k and then buy it right back off ebay for $7-$8k.  Tah-dah.



Hmmmmm  Something to think about


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## Green Eyed Hapa (Jul 25, 2012)

jont said:


> 40% Comission? OUCH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> How about you list it on ebay for 10-12K and give marriott nothing.



Tempting, but I could probably only sell for max $8500 from what I've seen on the internet. Thanks for input.


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## l2trade (Jul 25, 2012)

List price is $16,900?  Is this an eoy?  If not, can someone ask about and post list prices for NCV after their next tour.  I remember Marriott selling annual platinum floating above $30k or something like that.

$10k is above what the annual floating platinum seasons have recently sold for on eBay.  Of course, eBay sales are subject to rofr, so Marriott can influence future resale prices whenever they want.


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## l2trade (Jul 25, 2012)

my point is, if you want to sell, take the Marriott offer.


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## KathyPet (Jul 25, 2012)

I have tried a couple of times to sell first our Barony Beach (when we owned it) and then our MMC on both TUG and Red Week.  I think that the posters on this board severely underestimate the difficulties, frustrations and time involved to make a sale on these web sites happen.  Both times I attempted sales I checked prices and made sure that my unit was priced the very lowest in the category I was selling in (season, view and size).  I was substantially below any other listing for the same view, size and season and yet all I got was a couple of really  really low ball absurd bids and a lot of questions from rather stupid  people who had no idea what they were even thinking of buying and wanted me to act as the teacher for a Marriott TimeShare 101 course.  We ended up selling Barony through Marriott because even though we may have received less money then we might have obtained from a private sale the less hassle factor was a major component in the sale.


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## MOXJO7282 (Jul 25, 2012)

Green Eyed Hapa said:


> Marriott Newport Coast Re-sale dept. contacted us by e-mail, since we were on a wait list to sell back that we got on a couple years ago.
> 
> Here is what they offered:
> "The current list price for a Platinum 2 Bedroom unit is $16,900. After commission (40% of sale price), approximate net proceeds would be $10,140.
> ...


I guess if you don't use at all its probably best to sell but I was considering the same but I figured why sell when I'm making $1000 a year on renting?


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## MOXJO7282 (Jul 25, 2012)

Green Eyed Hapa said:


> Tempting, but I could probably only sell for max $8500 from what I've seen on the internet. Thanks for input.



This is true so the $10k+ offer is a very good one.


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## mjm1 (Jul 25, 2012)

If you don't need the $10k for other purposes and are comfortable that you can continue to net $900 from renting it, I would consider keeping it.  That is a 9% return on the money you effectively have tied up in the property.  Where else can you get that kind of return?


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## BocaBoy (Jul 25, 2012)

This language does not sound like an offer to me.  It sounds like MVCI is now ready to take you off the wait list and actually list your week for sale.  I have sold to a third party through Marriott and I have also sold a unit back to Marriott and this sounds like they are now ready to list your unit. Have you previously signed an actual listing agreement with them?  There are probably still quite a few units ahead of you in the queue.  If Marriott was buying back your unit, they would not have a 40% commission--it would be a $500 administrative fee.


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## KathyPet (Jul 25, 2012)

BocaBoy is correct.  Marriott is not offering to buy your unit directly from you.  You have made it far enough on the wait list for owners who wish to sell that they now want to formalize the process by having you sign a brokerage agreement whereby they act as the broker to sell your unit to a private individual.  Once you sign the agreement you will  wait for your unit to move to the very top of the list which will make it the next one Marriott sells when a buyer comes along.  How long will that take is a roll of the dice.  If they do get a buyer they will notify you when they have a signed sales agreement in place.


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## LisaH (Jul 25, 2012)

mjm1 said:


> If you don't need the $10k for other purposes and are comfortable that you can continue to net $900 from renting it, I would consider keeping it.  That is a 9% return on the money you effectively have tied up in the property.  Where else can you get that kind of return?



That's the way I look at. If you do not need the cash and if you do not mind managing the M/F payment & rentals yourself, keep the week and let it generate 9% return each year.


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## dougp26364 (Jul 25, 2012)

The timeshare market is always iffy. If you don't use the unit, don't want the unit and, if it will be a burden to you if you can't rent if for some reason, sign the brokerage agreement, hope to get a buyer, sell the unit and get the liability of owning off your back. 

Remember, things migh be going great on the rental market right now but there's no telling what the future holds. The old saying of a bird in the hand could ring true.


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## SueDonJ (Jul 25, 2012)

l2trade said:


> List price is $16,900?  Is this an eoy?  If not, can someone ask about and post list prices for NCV after their next tour.  I remember Marriott selling annual platinum floating above $30k or something like that.
> 
> $10k is above what the annual floating platinum seasons have recently sold for on eBay.  Of course, eBay sales are subject to rofr, so Marriott can influence future resale prices whenever they want.



I'd guess it's an EY because the OP said they rent it out every year.  With Weeks no longer available direct from Marriott except through their internal Marriott Resales office, the prices are much lower than what they sold as originally.  Here's the link to Marriott Resales if you want to search what they have available.  Note these Weeks are eligible for the Marriott Rewards Points exchange benefit, as noted, but are not eligible for DC enrollment.

I checked for NCV and didn't see any, which may be why they've contacted the OP.  (It is Newport Coast Villas in CA, right?  The only CA resorts at that link are DSVI and DSVII.)

Green Eyed Hapa, if it was me and I was still interested in selling (which I assume you were at one time and that's why you put your name on the list) I'd go ahead and take the deal.  Yeah you'll lose any rental income that you might get for it in the years ahead, but right now the deal probably gets you more than you could get on the external market and it gives you a chance to be done with it.  No telling what the future market, for selling or renting, will be.  I'm sure if you contact them they'll answer your tax-related questions before you commit to anything.


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## NJDave (Jul 25, 2012)

Marriott offered to buy our Cypress Harbour unit for $4,800.  

_At this time, Marriott Vacation Club International (MVCI) is extending an offer to purchase your Special Season, Two Bedroom  week at Marriott’s Cypress Harbour for $5,300 less $500 administrative and processing fees.  At closing, your approximate net proceeds will be $4,800*.  _

The list price is $8,100 which after their 40% commission would be approx. $4,800.

I offered to sell the unit to Marriott for $10,000 a couple of years ago when they told me during a presentation that our 2,650 legacy points were worth $26,500. They passed on the offer.  

Seriously, I agree that their offer is good if you are really looking to sell.


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## jont (Jul 26, 2012)

KathyPet said:


> I have tried a couple of times to sell first our Barony Beach (when we owned it) and then our MMC on both TUG and Red Week.  I think that the posters on this board severely underestimate the difficulties, frustrations and time involved to make a sale on these web sites happen.  Both times I attempted sales I checked prices and made sure that my unit was priced the very lowest in the category I was selling in (season, view and size).  I was substantially below any other listing for the same view, size and season and yet all I got was a couple of really  really low ball absurd bids and a lot of questions from rather stupid  people who had no idea what they were even thinking of buying and wanted me to act as the teacher for a Marriott TimeShare 101 course.  We ended up selling Barony through Marriott because even though we may have received less money then we might have obtained from a private sale the less hassle factor was a major component in the sale.


 
Kathy
Sorry if I offended you. My comment about selling on ebay was made in jest. I have never attempted to sell a TS on ebay and I would imagine it is a very difficult, esp in this economy, where everyone thinks you can buy one for a few bucks.
What really got to me was the 40% commission by marriott. That seems very high to me. I think I would at least try to sell it on my own first. But the experts here have spoken and it seems like they are offering the OP a good deal. I'm removing my foot from my mouth now.


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## DPat54 (Jul 26, 2012)

I've been in the MVCI program for about 12 years.  Tried to sell many times.  It ALWAYS comes down to:  Can I afford to stay in?  Will I use the weeks if I stay in?  

Why these two questions:  Because ALL offers are low-ball.  You're going to lose your tail.  But if you really NEED out, take the offer.


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## camachinist (Jul 27, 2012)

1) Is this a good offer?

- IMO, a decent offer but it's not really an offer to buy, rather an offer to list for sale. What will list price and net proceeds be when the listing is sold? Who knows. Read the listing agreement carefully before signing. I had one of my platinum NCV units on Redweek for the last year and most of the offers were in the 5-7K range. That listing has now expired and I won't be renewing it. Waste of time with mostly bottom feeders and brokers.

2) Is it wise to sell?

-If you need some cash, and it was a cash offer, yeah. Otherwise, crunch the numbers. MF's and taxes keep going up and even prime rental weeks have flattened out or fallen. Your 1900 number matches up pretty well with what I've been getting the last couple years and that's down from the 2300-2500 five years ago, even though MF's and taxes have increased. Still not bad, but nothing to get wetted over. Add to the MF's/taxes the direct costs of marketing as well as the value of your time for handling landlord duties.

3) Will there be Federal & Calif. State Tax liabilities?

-The sale should be reported but it'll be a non-taxable event, based on your purchase price.


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## dioxide45 (Jul 27, 2012)

camachinist said:


> 1) Is this a good offer?
> 
> - IMO, a decent offer but it's not really an offer to buy, rather an offer to list for sale. What will list price and net proceeds be when the listing is sold? Who knows. Read the listing agreement carefully before signing. I had one of my platinum NCV units on Redweek for the last year and most of the offers were in the 5-7K range. That listing has now expired and I won't be renewing it. Waste of time with mostly bottom feeders and brokers.



The OP indicated that they were contacted by MVCI Resale Department because they have been on the resale list that they have been on for a couple years. They don't usually contact someone until such point that they have a buyer ready to purchase the week. So while it technically isn't an offer to buy. It is an offer to resell the week to a buyer. So I would expect the sale to go through at some point and if that buyer falls through, the OP should still be at the top of the list for the resale.

I agree to read the agreement carefully, but the OP should already be listed so there shouldn't be a listing agreement, it would be an agreement to sell the week to the resale owner.


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## Green Eyed Hapa (Jul 27, 2012)

*UPDATE & Thanks to all who responded!*

Tuggers,

I appreciate your input and always look here at TUG for advice.

Here are a couple answers to questions some of you had:

Every Year Platinum
Listing agreement will be required (see verbiage from e-mail we received from Marriott Resale Dept. below)
Below are some questions we will be asking before signing a listing agreement:
•	What are all the fees (escrow, taxes, misc. recording & other fees) to be applied during the escrow process that we will be responsible for? After fees/ taxes etc. are applied, what will be our net proceeds? (We are current on Maint. Fees and county taxes)
•	How long will the escrow process be? Do you have a Buyer now?
•	What will be the Federal & State Tax liability?
•	We are using the 2012 usage in August next month.
•	Can we sell back to Marriott for Usage Year beginning 2014? (We have a daughter getting married in 2013 and would like to gift them the 2013 Usage.)

Here's some of the wording from the e-mail from Marriott:
Dear Newport Coast Villas Owner: 

Good day! Our records indicate that you previously contacted our office and registered an interest in selling your Newport Coast Villas ownership through Marriott. 

The current list price for a Platinum 2 Bedroom unit is $16,900. After commission (40% of sale price), approximate net proceeds would be $10,140*. In order to qualify for this offer, any applicable loan, maintenance fee balance and/or taxes must be current. 

If you are still interested in selling your ownership, please notify our office via email or telephone, so that we can prepare a listing agreement for you.                  


If we do not receive a response from you within 7 business days, we will presume that you have chosen to stay within the Marriott Vacation Club family and no longer desire to sell.

*As applicable, net proceeds will be applied to any outstanding loan. Maintenance fees must be current prior to initiation of the listing agreement. Foreign owners are subject to a 10% tax withholding. For more information, visit www.irs.gov
_______________

Thanks again!


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## KathyPet (Jul 27, 2012)

When we sold our BBC through Marriott we received the same letter that the OP did.  When I called to ask I was told that our names were now very near the top of the list of owners who wanted to sell and that Marriott maintained a very small list of owners who had signed listing agreements with Marriott.  Signing a listing agreement does not mean that Marriott has a buyer lined up for your unit but it does mean that they have very limited inventory and wish to add more inventory to their ready to go list.  In our case it took approximately three months after signing the listing agreement for Marriott to tell us that they had a signed purchase agreement for our unit.


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## camachinist (Jul 27, 2012)

Good questions and, looking at your situation in the update, I'd probably pass on the deal. However, you could balance the cash injection with renting a week for the wedding present.

If they respond, update. I'd be curious about the latest procedures.


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## BocaBoy (Jul 27, 2012)

KathyPet said:


> When we sold our BBC through Marriott we received the same letter that the OP did.  When I called to ask I was told that our names were now very near the top of the list of owners who wanted to sell and that Marriott maintained* a very small list of owners who had signed listing agreements *with Marriott.


In the last two or three years, they may have shortened the size of the lists of owners with active listing agreements.  When we sold our Sabal Palms weeks two or three years ago, we were moved from the wait list and given a listing agreement when there were about 25 listings ahead of us.


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## BocaBoy (Jul 27, 2012)

dioxide45 said:


> The OP indicated that they were contacted by MVCI Resale Department because they have been *on the resale list* that they have been on for a couple years. They don't usually contact someone until such point that they have a buyer ready to purchase the week. So while it technically isn't an offer to buy. It is an offer to resell the week to a buyer. So I would expect the sale to go through at some point and if that buyer falls through, the OP should still be at the top of the list for the resale.
> 
> I agree to read the agreement carefully, but the OP should already be listed so there shouldn't be a listing agreement, it would be an agreement to sell the week to the resale owner.



I don't think so.  OP said they "were on a *wait list* to sell back that we got on a couple years ago."


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## dioxide45 (Jul 27, 2012)

It seems that the offer is really only to list the week. There is no hurt in signing a listing agreement. It could still be a couple of years before the week actually sells, and the OP can continue to list it elsewhere since MVCI resale listings are not exclusive. Also when they actually get around to selling the week from the listing, the OP will have the option at that time to accept the offer or turn it down. There is no commitment to actually sell in this situation. So even if the OP isn't sure if they want to sell or not, there is really no drawback to signing the agreement since it isn't sales agreement but rather just a listing agreement.


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## BocaBoy (Jul 28, 2012)

dioxide45 said:


> It seems that the offer is really only to list the week. There is no hurt in signing a listing agreement. It could still be a couple of years before the week actually sells, and the OP can continue to list it elsewhere since MVCI resale listings are not exclusive. Also* when they actually get around to selling the week from the listing, the OP will have the option at that time to accept the offer or turn it down.*  There is no commitment to actually sell in this situation. So even if the OP isn't sure if they want to sell or not, there is really no drawback to signing the agreement since it isn't sales agreement but rather just a listing agreement.


The language in bold is not entirely true.  The listing is an open listing agreement like you say, and it can be canceled at any time, but they also routinely get a power of attorney from the owner allowing them to sign for you and agree to a sale on your behalf if it is for the listing price (which MVCI does not normally negotiate from).  That is for the seller's benefit as well as for administrative convenience, since it allows them to lock in a buyer without delay.  

When we sold our Waiohai week through them, we first learned we had a buyer when they informed us that they had a signed contract.  They try to tell you they have a buyer before the deal is actually signed, but if that does not happen the sale can still happen.  They emphasize that if you find a buyer through another channel, it is important to tell MVCI immediately so the week does not get sold twice.


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## KathyPet (Jul 28, 2012)

You don't sign anything when you call Marriott to be placed on the wait list of owners who want to sell.  You just give them your information.  As units are sold your name will move up the wait list supposedly and when you get very close to the top of the list Marriott will send you the listing agreement to sign.  Once you have signed and returned the listing agreement it does not appear (at least in my experience) to take a very long time to be told that Marriott has a buyer.  I think this is due to the very small # of actual signed agreements that Marriott has on any given property.


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## KathyPet (Jul 28, 2012)

When we signed the listing agreement about two months passed before Marriott called to tell us that they had a buyer.  Marriott had sent this potential purchaser the contract for signature.  After a couple of weeks I had not heard anything so I called.  The original potential purchaser had never signed and returned the sales contract.  Marriott had just sent them a final letter advising them that if they failed to return the contract within a week Marriott would consider the potential sale null and void.  About 2 weeks after that I received another call from Marriott saying that they had another purchaser for my week.  That was the sale that completed.


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## l2trade (Jul 28, 2012)

In CA, when you sign a listing agreement and you get a full list price offer, the realtor earned their commission.  As a seller, with a signed listing agreement, it is not advisable to back out of the sale without just cause.


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## Quadmaniac (Jul 28, 2012)

After looking at the "offer" I would think that you would jump on the opportunity as someone said, you would be getting $10K but you could replace it with a resale for $7-8K if you wanted. 

With this money in hand, you could purchase a Marriott Willow Ridge Resale for less than $1K and trade into the resort if you wanted to give 2013 usage as a wedding gift.

I can't see how you can lose in this situation, it seems to be a win-win-win to me. As others have noted, it may not sell right away, but possibly in 3 months.


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## dioxide45 (Jul 28, 2012)

Could sell and turn around and buy a 3BR Platinum Grande Vista with only 1/2 of the proceeds. MFs may be a little more though.


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## Beefnot (Jul 28, 2012)

Does NCV have a developer subsidy or are they underfunded? Wonder if their MFs should expect to increase substantially soon.


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## TheTimeTraveler (Jul 28, 2012)

l2trade said:


> In CA, when you sign a listing agreement and you get a full list price offer, the realtor earned their commission.  As a seller, with a signed listing agreement, it is not advisable to back out of the sale without just cause.






Interesting how states differ.  In MA (Massachusetts, not Maine) the Real Estate commission is due only upon completion of sale regardless if one declines a full price offer or not. 



.


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## Green Eyed Hapa (Jul 30, 2012)

*Spoke with Marriott Resale Dept. today:*



KathyPet said:


> When we sold our BBC through Marriott we received the same letter that the OP did.  When I called to ask I was told that our names were now very near the top of the list of owners who wanted to sell and that Marriott maintained a very small list of owners who had signed listing agreements with Marriott.  Signing a listing agreement does not mean that Marriott has a buyer lined up for your unit but it does mean that they have very limited inventory and wish to add more inventory to their ready to go list.  In our case it took approximately three months after signing the listing agreement for Marriott to tell us that they had a signed purchase agreement for our unit.



Here are some answers I received from Marriott in regards to my questions in my previous post:

40% covers commission, escrow, transfer, recording fees, etc.
escrow (once there is a buyer) can take up to 3 months
Marriott called because deeded weeks inventory is low for deeded weeks. Anything built on property from now on will go to the Points Program. They always have potential Buyers looking for deeded weeks (Buyer wants to guarantee NCV usage every year, which you cannot do with Points)
found out that we have been on the list for 4 years.
On listing agreement, we can designate Usage year 
 Thanks all......


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## larryallen (Jul 30, 2012)

l2trade said:


> In CA, when you sign a listing agreement and you get a full list price offer, the realtor earned their commission.  As a seller, with a signed listing agreement, it is not advisable to back out of the sale without just cause.



That seems hard to believe.  How can a Realtor prove the full price offer was going to close escrow?  It just doesn't sound right to me.


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