# St Regis Princeville Opening Delayed (again)



## DavidnRobin (Apr 7, 2009)

From FlyerTalk:
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/star...e-opening-delayed-yet-again.html#post11543190

My concern here is that WPORV Owners pay within our MFs for use of the St Regis facilities ($100 per year) - except for the pool.  However, we now do not get to use the facilities since it has yet to open.  Don't you think we should get our money back?


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## jarta (Apr 7, 2009)

DavidnRobin,   ...   I think you should try to contact your HOA board using the link on mystarcentral.  Really, it's a valid question to ask them whether the HOA board through its members is being charged for a benefit its members don't get.

You get to the link by entering mystarcentral, clicking on "Your Owners Association," clicking on your resort's icon, clicking on "Contact Us," and, finally, clicking on "Compopse a New Message."  Then, ask your question.

If you don't get an answer in a few days, contact Shawn O'Brien, Starwood's liaison to the various HOA boards.

You are entitled to an answer.        ...   eom


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## WalnutBaron (Apr 8, 2009)

*Starwood's Response*

After seeing David's post, I went to MSC and requested a $100 refund due to the fact that the facilities at the former Westin Princeville Hotel are obviously not available to WPORV owners and won't be until at least early October.

Here is the response I received from Starwood Association Management:
Thank you for contacting Association Management. 

"Thank you for contacting Association Management.

The Amenities Access fee will not be refunded at this time as owners still have access to the beach. In addition, discounts are being provided at the GolfPro Shop and at restaurants to compensate for the inconvenience. 

Unfortunately the majority of the costs are not covered by warranties like wages of engineers and maintenance staff. Grounds and landscaping still need to be maintained as well as elevators, vehicles, and electrical/mechanical equipments. This also covers pest control, trash removal, recycling expenses, and pool chemicals. These expenses are reflected on the annual operating budget. 

We hope you find this information beneficial. If you have any other questions do not hesitate in contacting Association Management at 1-800-729-8246. 

Sincerely, 

Aixa Garcia 
SVO Association Management"

Two important points: 1) "access to the beach" is patently untrue.  When I was at WPORV last month, there was no access for any visitor to the St. Regis hotel beach, which is one of the nicest on the north shore of Kauai; 2) if there are discounts at the Golf Shop and "restaurants" (it's not specified which restaurants they're referring to), they certainly were not offered during our stay.

Bottom line: Starwood gets an F on this response, which is wholly inadequate.  I have written them back for further clarification and will post their reply when it comes through.


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## jarta (Apr 8, 2009)

Based upon your experience, that response is unacceptable.  Moreover, it confuses (commingles) money paid from HOA to Starwood for the St. Regis amenities fee with money paid elsewhere by Princeville HOA.  It's not all one pot that Starwood management can let Starwood corporate dip into.

For part of the use of the amenities, owners at the TS (through its HOA) should be paying part of the fee.  No full use?  The amenities fee paid to Starwood should be reduced.

Asking for a refund from the HOA might be considered a little much.  What I suggest should happen is that the gross fee paid to Starwood by the association should be reduced and the balance of the amenities fees collected put in the resort's reserve fund to defray the cost of future renovations.

Did you use the link information I gave DavidnRobin?  Using that link should mean the HOA board members will be given a copy of the email.  If this did not happen, I think you should contact Shawn O'Brien directly.  You have the right to have HOA board members receive copies of what you send to the HOA.  Shawn is Aixa Garcia's boss.  Please feel free to use my real name (Jim Rooney) or enclose a copy of this post if/when you contact Shawn.

I have been defending Starwood and the HOAs concerning gross expenses, but can't defend this baloney response about payment for amenities that aren't.   ...   eom


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## WalnutBaron (Apr 8, 2009)

Thank you, Jim, for your thoughtful and excellent advice.  I did use the link you provided to DavidnRobin, so my email request will, I hope, be seen by the HOA.

I'll update this thread with any future developments.


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## somerville (Apr 8, 2009)

WalnutBaron said:


> ...Here is the response I received from Starwood Association Management:
> Thank you for contacting Association Management.
> 
> "Thank you for contacting Association Management.
> ...


The beach is public, and therefore, free.  There is public access to the beach via stairs along the side of the hotel.  One of the golf courses is being renovated, and therefore, closed.


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## DavidnRobin (Apr 8, 2009)

So... we are paying $100 annually to help with construction of the St Regis... glad I only bought an EOY.  I guess I will have to wait until 2011 to use the facilities at the St Regis - and another $100 later (and probably an additional 10-20% increase in MFs...)
Thanks Starwood - good way to keep the Owners who spend top dollar (purchase cost and MFs) on your products happy.


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## skim118 (Apr 9, 2009)

somerville said:


> The beach is public, and therefore, free.  There is public access to the beach via stairs along the side of the hotel.  One of the golf courses is being renovated, and therefore, closed.



In addition, there is also free car parking for the beach goers.


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## somerville (Apr 9, 2009)

skim118 said:


> In addition, there is also free car parking for the beach goers.


That is correct, although it is limited to a fixed number of spaces.


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## WalnutBaron (Apr 15, 2009)

*Still Waging The Fight For A Refund*

I continue to fight this battle with Starwood Management Services regarding this issue.  Here is the latest response:

"Thank you for contacting Association Management. 

The amenities access fee will provide access to the following Princeville Hotel Amenities: 

*access to the beach 

*15% discount on the following restaurants: 

Cafe Hanalei 
La Cascata 

*15% discount on clothing at the retail logo shop at the Princeville Hotel 

*10% discount at the Prince Clubhouse Restaurant & Bar 

*15% discount on clothing and purchase equipment at the Makai Golf Pro Shop 

Please note that Princeville Hotel amenities and services are subject to change. 

As previously stated, we will not be able to refund the Amenities Access fee. This fee is billed as part of the maintenance fee as established in the governing documents. 

Should you require further assistance please contact Association Management at 1-800-729-8246/407-903-4670. 

Sincerely, 

Aixa Garcia 
SVO Association Management"

Here is the text of my reply:
Dear Ms. Garcia:

"Thank you for your response. I have placed a call to your office and asked to speak with Shawn O'Brien. I am thoroughly dissatisfied with your response. Here's why:

* The beach is a public beach. Everyone has access to the beach so this is not something I should have to pay Westin for. In addition, when I was at WPORV in March, there was no mention to me of any special access to the beach and the gates were locked off for the renovation of the new St. Regis Hotel.

* No mention was made to me at check-in--or any other time for that matter from either the concierge staff or the front desk--of discounts at the two restaurants you mentioned.

* No mention was made to me about discounts for logo clothing at the Princeville Hotel. I am also wondering which Princeville Hotel you are speaking of, since the former Westin Princeville is closed for renovation.

* No mention was made of discounts at the Prince Clubhouse or the Makai Golf Pro Shop.

My biggest issue is with the following statement: "As previously stated, we will not be able to refund the Amenities Access fee. This fee is billed as part of the maintenance fee as established in the governing documents." If you have billed me for use of a facility that I cannot use, I should have the right to a) a full refund or b) the option to select your compensatory discounts. To simply stiff me by saying that you cannot issue a refund is both disingenuous and downright dishonest.

There is no need for you to respond to this message. Obviously, you are unwilling to help me. I look forward to hearing back from Mr. O'Brien."

I will keep you posted!


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## dss (Apr 15, 2009)

Thanks for keeping this alive as it's really been bothering me as well. They have a lot of nerve charging us $100 for "discounts" to places that are either not open and I might add, would require a significant spend to even approach $100 worth of discount value. I would be much happier keeping my $100 to spend (or not) as I see fit. 

I would be happy to be an additional voice with SVO in communicating my concern of the cavalier approach they are taking with our funds.


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## somerville (Apr 15, 2009)

WalnutBaron said:


> I continue to fight this battle with Starwood Management Services regarding this issue.  Here is the latest response:
> 
> "Thank you for contacting Association Management.
> 
> ...


The two restaurants mentioned were restaurants in the Princeville Hotel, and they are obviously closed during the renovation.  It would impossible to get your discount at this time.


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## Westin5Star (Apr 15, 2009)

SVO give me my $100 back!


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## Ken555 (Apr 16, 2009)

Cafe Hanalei was great when I was there last year. I arrived a day earlier than my check-in at WPORV and stayed at the Princeville Hotel the first night. When I checked in at WPORV they did hand me a card for 10-15% off (I forget the exact amount) for Cafe Hanalei. So, this isn't a new discount by any means.

I think they're really taking advantage of the owners in this instance, assuming the $100 is specifically intended as you state. But, I doubt any of us are too surprised at this action, now are we?


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## DeniseM (May 1, 2009)

There's an article about the St. Regis in today's Garden Island News.


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## SDKath (May 1, 2009)

Oooooh, I want one of those OFD suite upgrades.  I better start saving SPs now...  

Glad to hear it is finally opening.  Sorry to hear about the WPORV owners taking the hit for this mess.  If this St. Regis is going to be anything like the Monarch Beach property we were at last month, it is going to be spectacular!

On another note, I am guessing Starwood has absolutely no incentive to hurry the construction along.  Occupancy in Hawaii is seriously down and operating expenses must be sky high at a resort such as this.  My guess is they are purposefully taking their time to finish, thereby spreading out their cost of construction and avoiding having to pay a huge staff.  My guess is they will do a "soft opening" in the Fall to keep expenses down and to iron out the kinks.  That's what I would do anyway.

Katherine


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## dss (May 1, 2009)

I've been going in circles with SVO management on both the phone and through email on this so far but am not giving up so easily. It's an absolute joke that owners here are subsidizing the hotel when it's not even open. Even if it was open, the amenities they are offering us are weak at best. Access to an already public beach and shopping discounts where you would have to spend around $1000 just to come close to recovering the annual fee is a joke. They should offer owners full usage of the St Regis pools at a minimum. 


...to be continued...


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## DavidnRobin (May 2, 2009)

Hey - I'll take SPs - how about 4K for each year paid - 2 years now and haven't even been to WPORV.
Sucks that we will be leaving WPORV on 10/3 - guess we will get a small peak.


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## SDKath (May 2, 2009)

DavidnRobin said:


> Hey - I'll take SPs - how about 4K for each year paid - 2 years now and haven't even been to WPORV.
> Sucks that we will be leaving WPORV on 10/3 - guess we will get a small peak.



I am thinking you should be getting about 10,000-20,000 SPs each year.  4k sounds too low.  20k SPs will get you one free night in their nicer hotels.  That's about equivalent to the money you are paying for their upkeep.

Katherine


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## dss (May 4, 2009)

After four disastrous attempts to reach Marie, the HOA call center supervisor, I finally reached her today and had an absolutely laughable conversation with her. I tried my best to be polite but she kept insisting that the shuttle to the Beach fulfilled their part of the amenity contract. That better be one swanky ride to the beach. It was one of the most insulting conversations I have ever had with any kind of customer service agent in my entire life. 

Since it was pretty clear she was not interested in basic listening, let alone helping, so I have decided to move up the food chain to Shaun O'Brien, and if that doesn't yield any positive results, I'm seriously considering reaching out to a class action lawyer (I know, I know...). I could honestly care less about the $100, but the gall they have displayed in taking our money and not even offering the most basic customer service in return is appalling to me.


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## Joshadelic (May 4, 2009)

dss said:


> Since it was pretty clear she was not interested in basic listening, let alone helping, so I have decided to move up the food chain to Shaun O'Brien, and if that doesn't yield any positive results, I'm seriously considering reaching out to a class action lawyer (I know, I know...). I could honestly care less about the $100, but the gall they have displayed in taking our money and not even offering the most basic customer service in return is appalling to me.



I know people usually laugh at comments like that, but I think if someone were to stand up to this kind of crap once and for all, they might at the very least think twice about doing it again.  Just keep in mind that everything they do is run past a lawyer that is probably way better than the one you're going to hire.  Don't get me wrong...I'm completely with you here.


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## WalnutBaron (May 5, 2009)

By coincidence, I wrote again to SVO customer service today to remind them that--although my last missive from them of two weeks ago indicated I would be contacted by someone from my owner's association "very promptly"--I still had not heard from them.  I said if I did not hear from them soon, I may have to meet them in small claims court.

I will keep those interested informed of my progress (or lack thereof) via this thread.


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## DavidnRobin (May 27, 2009)

*From SVO-WPORV*

(gee - thanks for allowing me to enjoy WPORV... but not the St Regis... free shuttle for my $100...)

Dear DAVID, 

As you prepare to embark on a replenishing vacation at The Westin Princeville Ocean Resort Villas on Kaua'i, we would like to make you aware of a unique circumstance occurring during your upcoming retreat. 

Recently, Princeville Resort, located near The Westin Princeville Ocean Resort Villas, closed to undergo a magnificent multimillion-dollar renovation. It will resume operations in 2009. 

We do not anticipate that your journey to personal renewal on Kaua'i will be affected by the hotel closure. 

The Westin Princeville Ocean Resort Villas is one of the newest jewels in the Starwood Vacation Ownership portfolio of resorts. All construction activities have concluded and the resort is fully operational, with all amenities available to you. 

These include the multi-level, heated swimming pool; keiki pool for children; Wailele Bar, which offers poolside, light-fare dining; the plunge pool and the seasonally opened Ke Kai Bar, serving cocktails and snacks; and the secluded bluff pool. You may also choose to savor an array of culinary delights at Nanea Restaurant & Bar, serving island-inspired local favorites for breakfast and dinner. Or, discover all you will need at the Princeville Market, including grocery items for the villa and select marinated meats to cook on one of the resort's outdoor grills. 

While Princeville Resort undergoes its renovations, you may take advantage of complimentary, temporary shuttle service to and from Anini Beach that departs at scheduled times throughout the day from The Westin Princeville Ocean Resort Villas. 

To obtain discounts for a wide variety of Princeville stores and services—including special greens fees at the Prince Golf Course and discounts on spa treatments at The Princeville Health Club & Spa—simply visit The Westin Princeville Ocean Resort Villas Concierge Desk upon arrival. 

For other exclusive Owner offers that will enhance your vacation planning, including competitive rates on airfare and car rentals as well as resort and area activities, be sure to visit mystarcentral.com, your Owner's-only website.

Prior to your arrival, should you have questions or need more information, please contact Owner Services toll free at 888.WV.OWNER (986.9637) or direct at 407.903.4635. Vacation Counselors are available Monday through Friday from 9 a.m. to 9 p.m., and Saturday and Sunday from 9 a.m. to 6 p.m. Eastern time. You may also email your inquiry through the Message Center on mystarcentral.com.

Stay well, 

Denise Wardlow 
General Manager, 
The Westin Princeville Ocean Resort Villas


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## applekor (May 27, 2009)

David, I got the same e-mail.  We are checking in on 10/3.  I was hoping that when they pushed the date back again to 10/1 for completion of the renovation , that would be it.  I guess not? -tom


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## dss (May 27, 2009)

I got the same letter. I'm planning on riding the shuttle for most of the day, every day, to get my $100 worth. 

I am curious if anyone has done the owners tour recently at WPORV and what the current incentives are? Are they offering something other than SPG points? I recall WKORV was recently offering spa services as a new option?


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## tlpnet (Jul 13, 2009)

MAYBE a little good new for those of you checking in in September. (I check in on 9/26 myself). While checking out a recent SPG Hawaii promotional email, I came across this:

*The St. Regis Princeville Resort - Opening October 1, 2009 *

*Special Conditions*

*The St. Regis Princeville Resort Debuts October 1, 2009*


The St. Regis Princeville Resort will complete construction on July 1, 2009, at which time preparations will commence for the hotels debut on September 19 and the Grand Opening on October 1, 2009.

Be the first to discover "Hawaii's Quintessential Address".

If this is true, maybe as of September 19, we'll be able to use the amenities available to WPORV guests.

-tim


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## DavidnRobin (Jul 13, 2009)

I guess we will find out as 9/19 is our arrival date.


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## katsgarden (Jul 13, 2009)

Just my luck!  We leave Kauai on 9/12.  Is the Happy Talk bar closed as well?
Since it is a public beach, I'm assuming that anyone can use the beach in front of the hotel?


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## ocdb8r (Jul 14, 2009)

So, what exactly are the benefits WPV guest are supposed to receive at the St. Regis once it opens?


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## DeniseM (Jul 14, 2009)

ocdb8r said:


> So, what exactly are the benefits WPV guest are supposed to receive at the St. Regis once it opens?



See post #3 in this thread.


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## cpamomma (Jul 14, 2009)

katsgarden said:


> Just my luck!  We leave Kauai on 9/12.  Is the Happy Talk bar closed as well?
> Since it is a public beach, I'm assuming that anyone can use the beach in front of the hotel?



The Happy Talk is at HBR.  As of a few days ago, it is open.   We will be there (HBR) 8/30 - 9/6.  I will see if I can get some info on St. Regis Princeville while I am there and report back here.


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## J&JFamily (Jul 15, 2009)

I am curious if anyone has done the owners tour recently at WPORV and what the current incentives are? Are they offering something other than SPG points? I recall WKORV was recently offering spa services as a new option?[/QUOTE]

Hi DCS (and others), I hope you get this post since your original question was asked almost two months ago, but I am brand new to TUG (great site.)  We just returned from a stay at the WPORV (stayed there and the sheraton for 10 days using starpoints) and I did the owners presentation at the WPORV.  Here is a summary of what they offered us:

1.  EOY for $27,950 at the owner's price.  Nonowners pay (allegedly) pay $36,950.  I am an EOY owner at WKORV so I was curious what the developer would charge to fill in my other EOY.  
2.  100,000 starpoints (70 for the purchase and 30 for being a current owner).
3.  1 year option to upgrade to EY at same price of $27,950.
4.  6 certificates to purchase 80,000 starpoints at $1,550 for each 80,000.  The certificates would be valid until June, 2011.  If you used all six certificates you could purchase 480,000 starpoints for $9,300. 
5.  4500 starpoints for attending the presentation.
6.  One of their 50% off Award Certificates - a waste to those of us who accumulate starpoints by spending way too much money on that SPG Amex card  

We didn't purchase but were pleased with our stay in Kauai!


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## ocdb8r (Jul 15, 2009)

DeniseM said:


> See post #3 in this thread.



Is there another post?  Post 3 on the first page of this thread is a response about the limited amenities avaialable while the resort is under renovation (beach access, discounts).  I'm curious what sort of access guests are supposed to get AFTER the resort is actually open?  

I know there is no pool access...but what amenities at the St. Regis will be open to WPV guests?  In other words, what exactly were people told they would be getting for their $100/year?


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## dss (Jul 15, 2009)

Thanks for the update. We actually were there recently and did the owners update as well and has a similar offer, with one wrinkle. If we were interested in buying the other half of our EOY, they were willing to give us 81k Staroptions instead of the 100k SPG points. That is a brand new tactic they are taking since they said a lot of their owners are "rich" with SPG points but would love a bonus week using SVN options. 

I actually thought it was a smart idea. I also was offered the option to purchase six of the SPG certificates for $1,550 which is about $300-$400 lower than they were a year ago, which indicates to me people aren't seeing as much value in their first day incentives as they once were. It's the first time I've seen *anything* become cheaper at SVO. 

Concerning St Regis privileges, I actually hit the rep pretty hard on that one and he indicated that his understanding was there is going to be a roped off area on the beach with special lounge chairs and services only available to St Regis and WPORV guests. Beyond that, the only other thing I could see is some discounts on golf, spa, etc... and signing privileges at the hotel.


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## DeniseM (Jul 15, 2009)

ocdb8r said:


> Is there another post?  Post 3 on the first page of this thread is a response about the limited amenities avaialable while the resort is under renovation (beach access, discounts).  I'm curious what sort of access guests are supposed to get AFTER the resort is actually open?
> 
> I know there is no pool access...but what amenities at the St. Regis will be open to WPV guests?  In other words, what exactly were people told they would be getting for their $100/year?



Nope that's it - basically they have access to the property and get a discount in  some of the open-to-the-public shops.  It's pretty much a rip-off!  Especially since all beaches in Hawaii are PUBLIC, by law.  You can bring your own folding chair, and ice chest, and sit in the "non-roped off" section of the beach for FREE!   Or you can sit in the roped off section and pay $17.50 for a Mai Tai.


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## J&JFamily (Jul 15, 2009)

DeniseM said:


> Nope that's it - basically they have access to the property and get a discount in  some of the open-to-the-public shops.  It's pretty much a rip-off!  Especially since all beaches in Hawaii are PUBLIC, by law.  You can bring your own folding chair, and ice chest, in sit in the "non-roped off" section of the beach for FREE!   Or you can sit in the roped off section and pay $17.50 for a Mai Tai.



I am not an attorney but I'm guessing that they won't be allowed to rope off any section of the beach.  Roping off a section of the beach for St Regis and WPORV guests would preclude nonguests from a portion of the public beach, which is contrary to Hawaii state law.  That would make the $100 charge to WPORV owners even more of a ripoff than it already was.


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## applegirl (Jul 16, 2009)

Does anyone know if WPORV guests using the St. Regis Beach will have access to bathrooms?  How can a popular PUBLIC beach not offer bathrooms?!

Janna


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## Westin5Star (Jul 16, 2009)

applegirl said:


> Does anyone know if WPORV guests using the St. Regis Beach will have access to bathrooms?  How can a popular PUBLIC beach not offer bathrooms?!
> 
> Janna



My family and I were at WPROV last September.  We ate and drank at the St. Regis and I'm pretty sure that we even used the bathrooms.  We could have easily jumped in the pool too if we had wanted to.  We did go to the beach with no issues as well.


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## DeniseM (Jul 16, 2009)

J&JFamily said:


> I am not an attorney but I'm guessing that they won't be allowed to rope off any section of the beach.  Roping off a section of the beach for St Regis and WPORV guests would preclude nonguests from a portion of the public beach, which is contrary to Hawaii state law.  That would make the $100 charge to WPORV owners even more of a ripoff than it already was.



Good question.....  I haven't been there for a long time but the Hilton Hawaiian Village on Oahu used to rope off part of the beach in front of their resort, but it was set back a bit so anyone could still walk along the ocean.


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## wintermom (Jul 19, 2009)

DSS

What are the starwood certificates they offered you for purchase?

We just got back from the Princeville, had a super time and loved the property.
We also did the owners update and no mention was made of certificates for
sale.  We own every year and they were trying to sell us an additional 
EOY which would then put us in the level 3 catagory so we could exchange
for points every year if we wanted.  They offered it for half the price or
the full year (don't know if that is a discount to how its usually sold) also
offered 100,000 SPG points and the option to get more points until the first
usage year arrives.

We declined and they were fine, no real hard sell.  I asked about Aruba and
was told there was some problem with permits for the land.  The future of
the project was a "who knows" type answer.

This was our first year to use our property, we stayed 6 nights in a one
bedroom on Kauai followed by 5 nights in a one bedroom on Maui and in
October we have 5 nights booked in a one bedroom at Kierland.

So far we love it!!


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## Captron (Jul 21, 2009)

DeniseM said:


> Good question.....  I haven't been there for a long time but the Hilton Hawaiian Village on Oahu used to rope off part of the beach in front of their resort, but it was set back a bit so anyone could still walk along the ocean.



Denise, My guess is that the first X feet are public. If not theoretically the whole island would be public right? The other point about the HHV is that they likely had no right to put them up but did and people OBEYED!!!! (Amazing what lemmings we can be) If they just placed ropes and didn't actually say "Private Property Stay OUT" they could get away with it.

I think it is like me putting a couple of traffic cones out in a prime parking spot outside of my office tower. People (here anyway, not NYC or LA) may just go by and my "Reserved" parking spot would stay intact until people started to catch on, no? (Hmmmm it may be experiment time??? :rofl: :hysterical: Sounds like fun!!! )


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## J&JFamily (Jul 21, 2009)

wintermom said:


> DSS
> 
> What are the starwood certificates they offered you for purchase?
> 
> ...



The Starwood certificates are good for a certain amount of time and they allow the holder to turn them in and purchase a certain number of starpoints (not staroptions) at a reduced price.  When I recently did the owners update at WPORV they offered us 6 such certificates with an expiration date of June, 2011.  Turning each certificate would allow us to purchase 80,000 starpoints for $1,550 (for each certificate), therefore allowing us to purchase 480,000 starpoints for $9,300.  When you say you were offered "the option to purchase more points until the first year of usage", the certificates is what they were referring to.  We were offered those same certificates during our owners update.


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## wintermom (Jul 21, 2009)

Ok, thanks for the explanation.  I thought it was something offered regardless
if you purchased an additional week.


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