# CLUB WYNDHAM ACCESS POINTS,,what are they..



## carl2591 (Nov 11, 2015)

I was looking on ebay timeshare sales and noticed a couple of sumday vacation ads showing the CLUB WYNDHAM ACCESS POINTS. 

On one they were saying you can get ARP on some 40 resorts. http://tinyurl.com/ptujse8

so what is the difference between these access points and "regular" points. 

the offer sounds interesting just not sure about the difference.


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## raygo123 (Nov 11, 2015)

carl2591 said:


> I was looking on ebay timeshare sales and noticed a couple of sumday vacation ads showing the CLUB WYNDHAM ACCESS POINTS.
> 
> On one they were saying you can get ARP on some 40 resorts. http://tinyurl.com/ptujse8
> 
> ...


13 months availability, with ARP (club access) at the resorts mentioned in ad.  "Regular" points have 10 month availability to book at any Wyndham resort.

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## Cheryl20772 (Nov 11, 2015)

Simplistically timeshare initially was purchased as a fixed week in a fixed unit. Then they evolved into floating weeks where you bought a fixed interval, but it could be used at your choice of weeks as long as what you wanted was available. 

The conversion of your week into a points equivalent was a next step and that let you use your week points equivalent at your choice of participating resorts, but you still had that underlying week to pay fees for and that would include special assessments. 

Okay now comes the evolution to Club Access. Wyndham Club Access holds all the deeds and you buy a points equivalence membership into the club. Club members pay fees that are an average of all the fees for the resorts in the club's holdings. This has the effect of paying slightly more fees than you would if you owned at say National Harbor, but less fees than if you owned at one of the more expensive resorts. 

There are other features that make Club Access desirable such as there's no real estate deed involved: it's a club membership. There is ARP for every resort held by the club and there are something like 60 resorts in the club. 

Access is likely the structure of the future, but whole owned fixed weeks, points conversions and such will not go away completely for a long time. Read more on page 374 of the Wyndham Members Directory. http://www.nxtbook.com/nxtbooks/wyndham/plus_membersdirectory1415/


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## carl2591 (Nov 11, 2015)

so these access points are better that regular points??  they seem to give you 13 month vs 10 month access for a lot of places where as you only get 13 month at the resort you "own" at.

do you actually own at a resort or just in the club?  just trying to get a handle on the differences.



edit::  thanks cheryl,, i did go to page 374 and see there is a difference in structure. looks like a good way to get into the wyndham deal.


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## weems637 (Nov 12, 2015)

Club Wyndham Access, "subject to availability". As in, a limited number of units at the various resorts.  13 month ARP only good for the units owned within CWA.


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## Joe33426 (Nov 12, 2015)

weems637 said:


> Club Wyndham Access, "subject to availability". As in, a limited number of units at the various resorts.  13 month ARP only good for the units owned within CWA.



I've often wondered about the "subject to availability" and how Wyndham actually handles point allocation.  So, just say 20,000,000 points are in CWA and those points are associated with deeds are at La Belle Maison.  At 13 months before Mardi Gras can CWA owners make up to 20 million in reservations?  

I wonder if CWA owners could describe their experiences with using CWA's ARP at various resorts.  Does Wyndham say subject to availability, but is it actually an endless bucket?


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## vacationhopeful (Nov 12, 2015)

Joe33426 said:


> I've often wondered about the "subject to availability" and how Wyndham actually handles point allocation.  So, just say 20,000,000 points are in CWA and those points are associated with deeds are at La Belle Maison.  At 13 months before Mardi Gras can CWA owners make up to 20 million in reservations?
> 
> I wonder if CWA owners could describe their experiences with using CWA's ARP at various resorts.  Does Wyndham say subject to availability, but is it actually an endless bucket?



Originally, the seeded units in CWA were mostly offseason OLDER FIXED weeks with some inventory of UDI points from new resorts. 

I was at Sea Gardens (Pompano Beach) were I came across a woman trying to count floors from the outside of the Ocean Palms 10 story tower. She was trying to book ARP for a Winter Week (next winter) via CWA. Spent multiple phones calls trying to get ANY week at the 3 beach resorts during the ARP window. Of course, Royal Vista is NOT in CWA; Santa Barbara has only 90 units total => leaving Sea Gardens with ONLY 1 week 1 unit available. She was NOT HAPPY as she had brought CWA to GET ARP at those resorts. 

I explained HOW inventory was seeded in CWA. I told her I owned the weeks she was looking for which I brought resale and were deeded by week and unit number.... for WAY less than buying into CWA and with no Program Fee or 8AM phone calls HOPING for a reservation. 

She asked WHY Wyndham had NOT explained that to her. I told her, their job was to SELL you what they owned (currently CWA points). I suggested she GRAB that week and unit.


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## ronparise (Nov 12, 2015)

Joe33426 said:


> I've often wondered about the "subject to availability" and how Wyndham actually handles point allocation.  So, just say 20,000,000 points are in CWA and those points are associated with deeds are at La Belle Maison.  At 13 months before Mardi Gras can CWA owners make up to 20 million in reservations?
> 
> I wonder if CWA owners could describe their experiences with using CWA's ARP at various resorts.  Does Wyndham say subject to availability, but is it actually an endless bucket?



I can talk with a little authority about how CWA works at La Belle Maison, for Mardi Gras, but only a little

some years back I wanted to accumulate points to make Mardi Gras reservations. La Belle Maison points didnt come up that often, so perhaps CWA would do the trick for me..  I wanted to figure this thing out; would it be ok if I spent my limited money on CWA or should I wait for La Belle contracts? I asked here on TUG, I went to the CWA annual board meetings, and I talked to owner care people and I couldnt quite pin it down.  I was told that the goal was about 25% of inventory across the system,  was to go into CWA but I couldnt get specifics on any one resort

The breakthrough in my quest was  when another Tugger got a look at the "inventory book" at a sales presentation (I didnt know such a book existed) and reported back to me that they had reached that goal at La Belle Maison. 

The question remained how was that inventory made available . Was it released across the year so that an equal amount was available for ARP each week of the year. Or was everything at the resort  available to CWA people  until it was all gone. It didnt make any difference to me because by this time I had purchased enough La Belle Points to satisfy my needs and I had been able to use them all for Mardi Gras reservations.. I didnt need any CWA

I never could get a direct answer to the question  but heres what I think..   CWA is  spread across the whole year.  There are 140 units at La Belle Maison  and I think 25% of them (35) are available for Mardi Gras (and every other week of the year) at 13 months.   I come to this "educated guess" because  If all the points in CWA could be used for Mardi Gras the place would fill up fast with CWA owners and the deeded La Belle owners would be squeezed out. (there are a lot more CWA points in the universe than La Belle points) and that isnt whats happening. I am able to get a significant number of  Mardi Gras reservations  each year with my La Belle points> By the way the place completely sells out in the first few minutes the phone lines are open, and there is never any left at 10 months

At Avenue Plaza (also in New Orleans) , its a different story and more complex. It was developed as an all floating weeks resort and when Wyndham took it over they put all the unsold inventory (deeded, floating weeks) into CWA.   At this point approximately 33% of the resort is in CWA the rest is split pretty evenly between the old floating weeks owners  and Worldmark> (and by the way when a weeks owner defaults, the foreclosed weeks are put into either Worldmark or CWA)  I have been able to use CWA for some Mardi Gras reservations at 13 months, but there is always some available for Mardi Gras at 10 months too. 

So to answer your question I have a feel for how this stuff is distributed but its really only a guess and I think depends on whether the place was a floating weeks resort like Avenue Plaza  or fixed weeks like the two in Pompano that Linda describes or a 100% UDI resort like La Belle Maison

By the way some of the resorts (the ones brought into the system  as a result  of the Wixon settlement like Indio for example) are 100% CWA


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## raygo123 (Nov 12, 2015)

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## raygo123 (Nov 12, 2015)

What is the wixon settlement?

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## ronparise (Nov 12, 2015)

raygo123 said:


> What is the wixon settlement?
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk



Some years ago a worldmark owner (My Wixon) sued Wyndham. As I understand it the claim was that Wyhndam overloaded the club with condos and that the credits required to stay at some other  resorts was excessive

The settlement was that Wyndham removed just over 400 units from 11 Worldmark resorts,   Added some units at Dolphins cove in exchange for some Aneheim units  and reduced the credit requirements at some other resorts

What happenned to these units???  They were added to Club Wyndham Access

Thats how we got resorts like Indio and Angels Camp into Club Wyndham Access, also Pine Top and Rancho Vista, Tropicanna and others that I dont remember


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## raygo123 (Nov 12, 2015)

So all 400 units are access? Pooled into the trust?

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## ronparise (Nov 12, 2015)

raygo123 said:


> So all 400 units are access? Pooled into the trust?
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk



..... 
yes


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## vacationhopeful (Nov 12, 2015)

And the ONLY time it matters as to CWA or CWP .. is during ARP window. If untaken CWA inventory after the 10 month day before checkin ..(the ARP period), is available to ALL owners of both CWP and CWA.


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## ronparise (Nov 12, 2015)

vacationhopeful said:


> And the ONLY time it matters as to CWA or CWP .. is during ARP window. If untaken CWA inventory after the 10 month day before checkin ..(the ARP period), is available to ALL owners of both CWP and CWA.



Linda 

CWA is part of CWP   I think you mean club Wyndham select


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## vacationhopeful (Nov 12, 2015)

ronparise said:


> Linda
> 
> CWA is part of CWP   I think you mean club Wyndham select



Yes ... although Select is not used as often as CWA ... I used CWP for years before CWA was a twinkle in Wyndham World's eyes.


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## Joe33426 (Nov 12, 2015)

Thanks Ron!  Very helpful as always!  

About 1/2 my points are at La Belle Maison, but unfortunately I'm unable to travel around Mardi Gras.  Maybe someday I'll get to go, but it sounds like that I'll at least have a small chance of getting a reservation.  Glad to hear that CWA doesn't decimate the inventory.  






ronparise said:


> I can talk with a little authority about how CWA works at La Belle Maison, for Mardi Gras, but only a little
> 
> some years back I wanted to accumulate points to make Mardi Gras reservations. La Belle Maison points didnt come up that often, so perhaps CWA would do the trick for me..  I wanted to figure this thing out; would it be ok if I spent my limited money on CWA or should I wait for La Belle contracts? I asked here on TUG, I went to the CWA annual board meetings, and I talked to owner care people and I couldnt quite pin it down.  I was told that the goal was about 25% of inventory across the system,  was to go into CWA but I couldnt get specifics on any one resort
> 
> ...


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## carl2591 (Nov 12, 2015)

so is the CWA worth the effort and cost?? it appears not and then it appears it is a good deal, worth the effort.. guess it depends on resort wanted and when, like everything else in timeshare land.


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## samara64 (Nov 12, 2015)

Is there any info as of what is in the CWA trust.


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## markb53 (Nov 13, 2015)

samara64 said:


> Is there any info as of what is in the CWA trust.



Here is a link to the list of resorts. 
https://www.myclubwyndham.com/ffr/member/help/learningCenter/details.do?id=LIB-0002075

Wyndham hasn't revealed the number of units at each resort. 


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## ronparise (Nov 13, 2015)

markb53 said:


> Here is a link to the list of resorts.
> https://www.myclubwyndham.com/ffr/member/help/learningCenter/details.do?id=LIB-0002075
> 
> Wyndham hasn't revealed the number of units at each resort.
> ...



How many units or points from each resort is a moving target. The number is always getting bigger, especially now with all the inventory Wyndham is taking back

But as I said in my rambling post above,  There is a "book". or at least there was a book in the sales offices. I saw it in San Diego that resort by resort details exactly what is in the trust as of a certain date. Either sneek a peak when your salesman goes ti get your records, or just ask to see it.  I told the guy in SanDiego That I might  buy some more CWA if I knew how many CWA units were in New Orleans.... so he showed it too me.


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## scootr5 (Nov 13, 2015)

ronparise said:


> How many units or points from each resort is a moving target. The number is always getting bigger, especially now with all the inventory Wyndham is taking back



I think it's going to be interesting to see what happens with the CWA maintenance fees over the next couple of years too, given some of the units that Wyn is taking back.


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## samara64 (Nov 13, 2015)

Thanks all.

Ron, I will try to check that book next time I am in Oceanside. I see the trust keeps growing and including new resorts but no actual unit count.


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## vacationhopeful (Nov 13, 2015)

Yes ... there are a lot of elderly owners who brought those Fixed Weeks of the older resorts. Some converted to points ... but Wyndham is NOT reselling these as fixed weeks or converted fixed weeks.

Actually, any foreclosed units ... from previous Q&A sessions at the RESORT and of the Resort Managers .. the units are technically foreclosed by the HOA and ALL expenses to reacquired ownership and HOLDING period of the ownership is ABSORBED by the HOA. CWA would request "x type of units during y season of z size" and pay the HOA ... get this ... $1 for the deed. And the HOA could not participate in ANY OTHER selling ANY DEEDS outside of "feeding" the deeds to Wyndham (and default to the CWA program). It was a SLOW process ... with the other owners at the older resorts PAYING for holding the deeds and legal fees to acquire the deeds ... all the while, not able to "profit" by selling deeds to current owners WHO highly desire and would have PAID more than the $1.

Am I happy about Ovations? Sure ... should have or will have reduced the (holding) inventory on the older resorts along with the number of foreclosures & those associated costs. *BUT* it brands a particular resort as a Wyndham verses the XYZ Resort with repeat FW owners who have a vested interest in improvements and vacationing experiences ... a non-owner (like the CWA club member) will vote by NOT coming back. A bad personal experience will cause more "harder" usage ... like a hotel room. 

I have lots of fixed week vacationing experiences at different resorts ... seeing the same owners and renewing our friendships each year ... is like being in a neighborhood. Many of those owners have their extended families also vacationing with them in their OWN units. Some of my best stories involve owners who come to the same resort for 20+ years ... active plus their next generation bringing their kids.


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## bnoble (Nov 13, 2015)

> CWA would request "x type of units during y season of z size" and pay the HOA ... get this ... $1 for the deed.


On the bright side, this moves unproductive inventory that generates no revenue (or, what rental income the HOA can generate) to an owner willing to pay full MFs. Older resorts don't (and won't) have sales teams to move that inventory in other ways. There are a few resorts that try this---I stayed in a non-Wyndham in Sedona that has resales advertised to guests---but they are few and far between.


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## markb53 (Nov 14, 2015)

bnoble said:


> On the bright side, this moves unproductive inventory that generates no revenue (or, what rental income the HOA can generate) to an owner willing to pay full MFs. Older resorts don't (and won't) have sales teams to move that inventory in other ways. There are a few resorts that try this---I stayed in a non-Wyndham in Sedona that has resales advertised to guests---but they are few and far between.



I have been offered a foreclosure twice at sale presentations. The first time was at Wyndham Flagstaff. My sales person was the sales manager. She explained to me that Wyndham helped the HOA by taking care of the foreclosure process. After the foreclosure was complete, there was a waiting period because Wyndham didn't want to put foreclosed inventory into the system all at once, they wanted to put it in a little at a time. During this waiting period Wyndham Flagstaff is one of a few Wyndham's that are allowed sell the foreclosed units. Of course as part of a retail purchase. If they don't sell it. and Wyndham is ready to put it into CWA they pay the HOA $1.00 and start picking up the Maintenance fees for that unit.
Probably the best deal I've been offered for a foreclosure at a sales presentation was a Wyndham Ocean Ridge in Edisto Island SC. If I bought the smallest CWA Contract he could sell me, at full price: 29,000 points for $7000.00. He could sell me a 200,000 point foreclosed Ocean Boulevard contract for $10,000. Obviously, not that great a deal compared to some resales I have seen but full rack rate for 229,000 would be a little north of $57,000. 

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## JudyS (Nov 14, 2015)

Can Club Wyndham Access Points be purchased resale, or only from the developer?

How do MFs per CWA point compare to MFs for other types of Wyndham points?

Thanks in advance!


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## ronparise (Nov 14, 2015)

yes they can be bought and sold on the secondary market

 because the maintenance fees are a weighted average of the fees of all the deeds in the trust, the fees are about average. the number is about $5.50/1000 points, 

Ive been told by the president of the Trust at one of the annual meetings that they try to manage the maintenance fees by taking in deeds with a lower maintenance fees to balance the deeds they get that have higher fees. So the story that Mark was told about waiting to put foreclosures into the trust makes sense.


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## vacationhopeful (Nov 14, 2015)

ronparise said:


> .....I've been told by the president of the Trust at one of the annual meetings that they try to manage the maintenance fees by taking in deeds with a lower maintenance fees to balance the deeds they get that have higher fees. So the story that Mark was told about waiting to put foreclosures into the trust makes sense.



And I have been told Wyndham requests the Fixed Weeks when the inventory of units/weeks being sold is LOW in the CWA trust ... a "Just In Time" needed supply of inventory ... balancing out the points SOLD and the point HELD by the trust.

And as foreclosed points (CWA) and "returned" points (Ovations or traded in points) rise, Wyndham is NOT decreasing the units HELD by the individual HOAs. HOAs are NOT allowed to sell them in a secondary "direct" market. Converted F/W points revert to the underlying week ... first with the HOA then having to foreclose.

Also, as MORE new resorts come online - CWA wants THOSE deeds added to the trust as they are selling also the "newest" locations. Wyndham management wants to "proclaim" the resort selling well in the stockholder's reports and MARKETING reports .. they just might NOT be explaining to CWA verses the general public.

And NOT continuing to SELL CWP points at the resorts ... keeps the resorts with a "trapped" customer base.

Another open option with CWA (the vacation club) ... they could sell THAT whole entity to an outside company. So CWA could get rebranded as "China World's Adventures" .. just a name change with a copy of the "split" reservation system. And they could start selling the onsite management of resorts, too. Or CWP vacation club .. China World's Paradise?


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## markb53 (Nov 14, 2015)

ronparise said:


> yes they can be bought and sold on the secondary market
> 
> because the maintenance fees are a weighted average of the fees of all the deeds in the trust, the fees are about average. the number is about $5.50/1000 points,
> 
> Ive been told by the president of the Trust at one of the annual meetings that they try to manage the maintenance fees by taking in deeds with a lower maintenance fees to balance the deeds they get that have higher fees. So the story that Mark was told about waiting to put foreclosures into the trust makes sense.



That is exactly what the sales manager told me at Flagstaff. The foreclosure I was being offered (with an addition retail purchase with a Wyndham Sedona home resort) was a Flagstaff summer converted fixed week with quite low maintenance fee. She said that the way Wyndham keeps the CWA maintenance fee at a lower, is to sit on especially low MF contracts until the trust needs the units. She said the agreement with the trust specifies the ratio between number of CWA points sold and and amount of CWA inventory in existence. This way Wyndham can play the just in time inventory game. And when the trust ratio gets out of whack they can bundle up a few foreclosures with varying maintenance fee and drop them into CWA as needed. Thus also keeping the average MF in the trust at an good level. Which is good for the trust but it is also good for Wyndham sales. It's just not so good for the HOA who is stuck with foreclosed inventory waiting for Wyndham to put it in the trust and start paying its share on the Maintenance Fee. 


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## ronparise (Nov 14, 2015)

vacationhopeful said:


> And I have been told Wyndham requests the Fixed Weeks when the inventory of units/weeks being sold is LOW in the CWA trust ... a "Just In Time" needed supply of inventory ... balancing out the points SOLD and the point HELD by the trust.
> 
> And as foreclosed points (CWA) and "returned" points (Ovations or traded in points) rise, Wyndham is NOT decreasing the units HELD by the individual HOAs. HOAs are NOT allowed to sell them in a secondary "direct" market. Converted F/W points revert to the underlying week ... first with the HOA then having to foreclose.
> 
> ...



"Just in time" is the way they bring new resorts into the system. In the old days Wyndham bought the land, and developed the property and built the buildings and then sold the the points> Bonnet Creek is an example. the process ties up a ton of Corporate money  until they get everything sold

Now its just in time. An agreement is made with a developer, who buys the land, and builds the project out. Wyndham buys the condos one at a time as the sales force needs them> I think Desert Blue is the first of these projects. The project was started like Bonnet Creek but they closed down construction during the recession. and then it was sold to a developer (Guigenheim) that finished the project. Wyndham is buying it back on a just in time schedule
 I think Clearwater is the most recent deal. There the land was bought and the project was conceived by a developer> but construction began, only after the made the Just in time deal with  Wyndham. Very little if any Wyndham money will be spent until Wyndham takes possession of the first units, And they wont take the second group until the first is paid for (by the new points buyers)

Im sure they do the same thing with foreclosed units. I know  at Avenue Plaza the foreclosed units are put into Worldmark.  Just in time.  The fixed week owners there suffer the consequences of the unpaid maintenance fees until the hoa "sells" them to Wyndham   Those HOA controlled units are rented to owners, and to the general public, until Wyndham takes them for Worldmark (and no doubt CWA)


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