# Just another timeshare newbie



## adutton (Jul 5, 2007)

Howdy to everyone!  And yes I am a timeshare newbie and know just about nothing.  I am excited about my purchase, and of course the company if very helpful, but I want to know what I might be missing out on, or not asking from them.

Just back from Vegas and bought a deeded timeshare week from Tahiti Villiage from Colsolidated resorts.  This their 4th in vegas, one in orlando and few in Hawaii.  it is a floating week, can also be split up into a 4/3, it is Red week, only time we can't go is new years week. It also includes a membership in Interval International which is (I belive) 3 years paid for which included 12 vacation weeks a year which will cost us money but they claim it is at a very substantial savings most around $150-$200 per week.  We bought the 2 bdr model which is around 1000 sq/ft, full kitchen, everything you need. Also came with some free vacations as well.

My questions this...

they said red week is the best and I shouldn't have any issues trading for almost anything I want in the world.  They Claim Vegas is the best place to purchase.  True?

Also the 12 weeks vacation a year for around 200/wk sounds way to good to be true.  I have visited II's site and there are some really good places... but for $200/wk?  How much do they run really?

Anyone own in Tahiti Village? I love the place but really... how hard is it to book when you want?

Any other sites I should look up, specifically for Tihiti Village?

What hidden costs will I need to worry about for a deeded timeshare?

Sorry for all the questions but I wanted to find out the real scoop... and not just ask the sale folks   thanks in advance


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## aliikai2 (Jul 5, 2007)

*If you are still within the cancellation period.*

*RECIND NOW*


Then come back and ask questions as you have paid many, many thousands of dollars more than the week is worth.

Greg


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## Dave M (Jul 5, 2007)

First, welcome to TUG! There is a wealth of info here that should eventually allow you to make the correct - for you - decisions about timesharing. 

My first and strongest recommendation is to consider whether you should rescind your purchase while you can. You have too many questions - many of which you haven't even thought of yet - that should be answered before you make such a commitment. And the deal they offered you ("today only") or one very close to it will still be there if you ultimately decide you want to buy from Consolidated rather than on the resale market. Don't waste time. Under Nevada law, you have only 5 days from the date you signed the contract to cancel. Send your cancellation via certified mail and get a receipt.

I don't know how much you paid, but there are routinely 2BR units at this resort available on the resale market for far less than what you paid. The resale units are exactly the same as what you purchased - lived in by others before you stay there, just as with what you purchased. That price differential affects you when you sell as well as now. If you should decide to sell, you will take a huge loss on the resale market. See the "What is Your Timeshare Worth? section of this TUG "how to sell" article for a dose of reality.

As for some of your questions:

Yes, "red" is best for exchanging, but there are many different degrees of red depending on what week of the year you use to trade and the quality of your resort. Yes, you will have a great deal of difficulty "trading for almost anything I want in the world."

Is Las Vegas the best place to purchase? Probably not. Although Las Vegas is a popular place to visit, the number of timeshare projects currently under construction is mind-boggling. Will that mean overbuilding in the timeshare industry? Maybe. Do you really want to risk finding out? 

Those II Getaway weeks will cost more than $200 each. Some more popular weeks/popular resorts will cost up to $1,000 per week. More importantly, those weeks are rarely available except during off-season. Thus, although you can travel almost any time of the year, you probably won't want (for example) a beach week in Hilton Head in January or February, which is when most Getaways there are available.

I'm not sure where the 12 weeks per year comes from. With an II membership, you can buy as many Getaway weeks as you want. However, most of us believe that's not necessarily a bargain.

Hidden costs? You heard about the annual maintenance fee, which I believe is currently about $600. That fee will go up. You can count on that. It's also possible that there will be a special assessment at some time in the future to cover expenses, renovations or major repairs that are not covered by current estimates. Most well run resorts do not have special assessments.


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## adutton (Jul 5, 2007)

I am if it is within 7 days... but why should I though?  The place is right down on the strip, it is only going to build up an up with the strip coming farther down that way.  In 5 years it will be one of the hottest places to go. Disney is putting in a 100 acre complex almost right across the street as well.  I can go almost anytime instead of having to plan off time travel.  I at least think it is a pretty good deal for a place I want to stay.


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## Dave M (Jul 5, 2007)

If you believe everything you said and have a ready answer for everything in my post, then by all means, keep what you bought. However, you asked for opinions from those with timeshare expertise and that's what you are getting. Stay tuned. You'll hear a lot more from others. 

Mostly, there would seem to be no justification for paying the outrageous developer price compared to what you could pay for the same timeshare on the resale market.


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## adutton (Jul 5, 2007)

Well today is day 5 so can't get a letter to them that quick if I do decide to rescind.  I have asked them allot of questions but as you know they don't always tell the "absolute" truth but more of truth as we know it sort of truth.  It is the type of deal I want to get into though.


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## adutton (Jul 5, 2007)

Yes I agree Dave... I tried to check out ebay but found only one fore resale and it was more than I had paid so I thought it was a good deal.  I am gonna check out your resale section.  Is there anyway I can rescind without the letter?


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## Dave M (Jul 5, 2007)

According to Nevada Revised Statutes Section 119A.410, "The notice of cancellation [for a timeshare purchase] may be delivered personally to the developer or sent by certified mail or telegram to the business address of the developer."

TUGgers generally recommend the certified mail approach, especially since telegrams, for the most part, are a thing of the past!

As for resales, there is a list of reputable resale sites at the top of the list of topics for the Buying, Selling, Renting forum. One of those, Redweek (the only one I checked), had a 2BR recently offered at $10,200, as is currently shown in the listings for the resort. That was the _asking_ price. What it actually sold for is anyone's guess.


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## DeniseM (Jul 5, 2007)

adutton said:


> Yes I tried to check out ebay but found only one fore resale and it was more than I had paid so I thought it was a good deal.  I am gonna check out your resale section.



One more thought - after you learn a little more about timesharing you may decide that you don't want to buy at this particular resort or even in Las Vegas.  If you rescind now, and do your homework, and decide that you do after all want the original deal - it will be there, no matter what the salesman told you - next week, next month, next year!

*Rescind - you have nothing to lose and everything to gain!*

Good luck - let us know how it goes!


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## Dave M (Jul 5, 2007)

adutton said:


> Well today is day 5 so can't get a letter to them that quick if I do decide to rescind.


Sorry, I missed this earlier. You don't have to get a letter to them today, but you must get it postmarked today. Get moving!!


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## Jya-Ning (Jul 5, 2007)

adutton said:


> I am if it is within 7 days...




Is this what said in the contract?  Check it.  If contract says 5 days, and the saleman say 7 days, it is 5 days.

If you have no issue of owning it, pay the yearly maintaince fee which will go up with the inflation, and happy to what the location is as of today, then it is your decision.  Since you ask, if you find later on, you can not get the exchange you want, or you found after 4 years, the resale price is 1/2 price you pay, and you don't care much, hold on to it.  You will have a lot of enjoy vacation.

But if you are borrowing money, rescind now.

Disney may or may not build there.  Don't depend on it.

Jya-Ning


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## aliikai2 (Jul 5, 2007)

*It is very easy to fall prey to the HYPE*

that the fast paced sales people use in a  timeshare presentation. 

We did on our 1st purchase, a lot of us here on TUG have been where you are and it is hard to admit that maybe we made a mistake, so please swallow that pride and save yourself some serious aggravation and money by rescinding this purchase today.

I could spend days showing you what is going to happen to that 20k purchases value over the next 5 years, or tell you how poorly Las Vegas trades to the prime demanded weeks at resorts in Hawaii, Southern California, East Coast summer beach weeks, etc.

Your are just going to have to decide, either listen to us that are in the know, 
or plan on continuing your purchase.

Either way, welcome to TUG, and timesharing.

fwiw, Greg



adutton said:


> I am if it is within 7 days... but why should I though?  The place is right down on the strip, it is only going to build up an up with the strip coming farther down that way.  In 5 years it will be one of the hottest places to go. Disney is putting in a 100 acre complex almost right across the street as well.  I can go almost anytime instead of having to plan off time travel.  I at least think it is a pretty good deal for a place I want to stay.


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## UWSurfer (Jul 5, 2007)

Adduton,

This board has the collective knowledge of thousands of Time Share owners and traders.   The key here is we are the consumers & owners, not the sales people attempting to close a sale.

Tihiti Village is a very nice project and Consolidated is a very reputable operator of timeshares.  I've stayed at one and have toured a few more resorts run by Consolidated and was very happy with them.  There are issues with the resort being south of the airport.  That area of  "The Strip" is pretty far removed from the rest of the strip.  It may expand into something over time...and it may not.  Five years is very optimistic.

That being said, you would be very wise to recind your purchase NOW and do your homework.  Should you purchase again you will likely save thousands and be a much more informed consumer to boot.   

You can always send the letter both certified US mail and overnight courier (such as FedEx) where you can get a signature of delivery.  In addition to doing these steps, you can also fax a copy of the letter and get a time/date stamp from the fax comfirmation as well.  Time is of the essense and you must follow the contract language on recission to the letter.

I think you'll find the members on TUG to be huge supporters of timeshare and an unbeliveable knowledge base.  You'll never hear from your sales person again and we don't take a percentage of your investment.


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## brucecz (Jul 5, 2007)

Dave and I do not always agree but in this instance Dave IMHO is 100% correct. Dave is super informed in most areas of timesharing and you are a Newbie.  Greg is also IMHO one of the better informed timesharers around.

 If you look at my profile and signature at what I own you will see that I own about 27 or so timeshares that I can use for about 100 reservations a year. Note that 3 of those are RCI Points ownerships that are Las Vegas ownerships that I bought to use for PFD.  I can exchange with RCI weeks, RCI Points and II.

I know what I see with off season weeks from other areas in Las Vegas so I am saying Las Vegas is a very easy exchange to get, and is not a great exchanger.

Anybody can ask any price if they are trying to sell a timeshare.


To prove to yourself that Daves and Gregs advice is 100% correct
I strongly suggest you go to  the ebay completed Nevada auctions section to see how cheap Las Vegas can be bought for if you  realy want the  truth.

Well over 1/2 of what you will be paying for when you buy from the resort instead of buying resale goes for  sales commissions.

Most of those that are experianced timesharers pay about 5 % to 15 % on resale of what you will be suckered into paying when buying from the resort and,  you will most likely not have the flexability and trading power like they do.

Follow Daves advice and recind you do not want to  needlessly waste at least 75% of what you would spend if buying directly from the resort.

I recently  saved one of my rental customers $10,000 buy having them recind before it was to late. I had him check ebay resale prices and that really opened his and his wifes eyes.

Their is a old Las Vegas saying if you do not see a chump sitting at our poker table the chump may be you.

Agian, I  will strongly suggest you go to  the ebay completed Nevada auctions section.

I would suggest that you recind and then spend some time leaning about timesharing before needlessly over paying.

I wish you good luck. Do'nt forget to tell Dave and Greg thanks for giving you the advice that can save you about 75% of the cost if you follow their advice. 

Bruce   








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adutton said:


> Yes I agree Dave... I tried to check out ebay but found only one fore resale and it was more than I had paid so I thought it was a good deal.  I am gonna check out your resale section.  Is there anyway I can rescind without the letter?


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## talkamotta (Jul 5, 2007)

adutton said:


> I am if it is within 7 days... but why should I though?  The place is right down on the strip, it is only going to build up an up with the strip coming farther down that way.  In 5 years it will be one of the hottest places to go. Disney is putting in a 100 acre complex almost right across the street as well.  I can go almost anytime instead of having to plan off time travel.  I at least think it is a pretty good deal for a place I want to stay.



I saw a number of listing for Tahiti Village on Ebay.  None of them had any bids against them.  Anyone can ask what they want. 

Take for instance Sands of Kahana.  Owned by Consolidated..2 bedroom, Maui, right on the beach.  Gold Crown, red (a true deep red)  Maui is hard to get into   (so good trader) but mf's are high so people will rent rather than trade, (especially with II).  See them listed on ebay for $28,000 but they sell for $8500 to $12000.  

I, for one, like Consolidated (not everyone does).  I own at Sands of Kahana and I have been to Club de Solei (a very nice resort but not on the strip).  

Keep reading other posts.  Before you buy, join Tug.  The review section has saved me a lot of money. If by chance you cant recind. Still join TUG.  It has great information for trading too, no suprises. 

The saddest thing is when I hear people saying they bought thier timeshares from the developer and then never learned how to use them.  That is a double/triple whammy.


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## Timeshare Von (Jul 5, 2007)

adutton said:


> Well today is day 5 so can't get a letter to them that quick if I do decide to rescind.  I have asked them allot of questions but as you know they don't always tell the "absolute" truth but more of truth as we know it sort of truth.  It is the type of deal I want to get into though.




They often do not tell any version of the truth either!  If today is your 5th day, you still have time to get something put together and to the post office (go inside) and have it post marked today!

From what you've said thus far (and I still have much more to read in this thread) you have bought their sales line hook, line and sinker.  The comment regarding being overbuilt, if not today, in the future, is a reality that you should consider with extreme diligence.

Orlando once was "the best place to buy" . . . probably 10-15 years ago, maybe longer.  They have overbuilt there to the point that a "red week" is worthless in terms of trading.  If you want to go to your resort for every year in perpetuity, and don't care that you did pay more than what you could have via a resale purchase, no reason to go to the hassle of writing and mailing a rescinsion letter by COB today.

Best wishes as you contemplate your ownership needs and financial best interest.


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## Timeshare Von (Jul 5, 2007)

Jya-Ning said:


> . . . If you have no issue of owning it, pay the yearly maintaince fee which will go up with the inflation . . .



And more!  My one resale purchase in Williamsburg has gone up in MF's from $416 (2001) to $612 (2007).  Don't forget that often special assessments also come along from time to time, adding an unexpected expense, typically with just a couple/few months' notice.  That same resort has had a three year assessment of $338 per year for 2006-2008 (for a grand total of $1,014).

Often MF's go up once the developer no longer can control and adversely affect them in a "lowering" way.  When the resort is sold out and the POA begins to do the management and financial oversight, you can almost be assured there will be a jump in fees.


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## Timeshare Von (Jul 5, 2007)

brucecz said:


> Well over 1/2 of what you will be paying for when you buy from the resort instead of buying resale goes for  sales commissions.



And let's not forget about those fancy sales presentation offices, the freebie gifts and/or money spent to bring people in and to support the discounted packages (3days/2nights for $59) used for marketing to new people.


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## Timeshare Von (Jul 5, 2007)

adutton said:


> My questions this...
> 
> they said red week is the best and I shouldn't have any issues trading for almost anything I want in the world.  They Claim Vegas is the best place to purchase.  True?
> 
> ...



The fact that you feel the need to "find out the real scoop" says that you don't believe your sales rep 100%.  That is a good thing.

The first and perhaps biggest "untruth" they told you was that with a red week in Las Vegas you "shouldn't have any issues trading anywhere in the world" is just not the case.  I don't trade in II but I know there are plenty of new buyers who quickly become disillusioned with the frustrations (and expense) of trading with II and/or RCI (the other "big" exchange company).

Of course they ALL say their city and resort is "the best" for your TS ownership.  There are still plenty of places in Orlando using that marketing "fib" because, afterall, Orlando is the most visited international destination . . . in the world.  So where better than to own, than with the land of the Mouse??

And speaking of the Mouse, it may have been that a couple of years ago Disney may have been on board with a Las Vegas development when their marketing as a city was focused on "family vacation fun & value" . . . but they (rightfully) scrubbed that and reverted back to the adult playground ("What happens in Vegas stays in Vegas") theme.  I personally don't see the "family friendly values" culture sensitive Disney coming to Sin City.  Heck, they didn't even want Rosie to be tied to them via the arm's length relationship at ABC TV.

Hopefully you have had enough input . . . and still enough time . . . to get a letter drafted, signed by both you and your wife (if you're married), and postmarked at the post office today.


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## adutton (Jul 5, 2007)

Wow... you folks really do know what you are talking about.  I go to lunch and get back and the response is overwelming! That is incredible! Thanks all that posted.  forgot I could search closed auctions on ebay like that.  I will do so asap.  It is 2pm here and fed ex doesn't come until 4 so I have a few hours to sort it out. Question... how much is the II membership worth?  If I purchase resale I won't get that as a benny paid for.  How much would it cost me just to signup to use II? And is it worth it? thanks


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## adutton (Jul 5, 2007)

More info...

this is the 12 week program they told us about... it was paid for us for the next copule years but eventually will run out:

Getaway Program: The Interval International Getaway program allows you additional weeks of resort accommodations at members-only prices, without giving up the week you own. You can arrange your resort stay up to a year in advance of your travel dates, making it easy to plan some extra R&R.


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## Timeshare Von (Jul 5, 2007)

adutton said:


> Question... how much is the II membership worth?  If I purchase resale I won't get that as a benny paid for.  How much would it cost me just to signup to use II? And is it worth it? thanks



Well as I alluded to in one of my posts, there are two main exchange companies II which is the one with the resort you're interested in is affiliated with . . . and RCI which is larger (but not necessarily better). Both have pros and cons, and are suffering from poor membership relationships.   Both cost money to join and then an additional fee for trading to go to other resorts.

There are some smaller exchange companies that serve a smaller market or specialty niche . . . DAE, SFX, Hawaii something or another, and the most recent entry into the exchange business, RedWeeks.  I believe all of them are less expensive than II and/or RCI.  Some are free for membership (i.e., DAE) and only charge when you make a successful trade.

I would think which exchange network best serves your needs may dictate which resort to purchase via resale.  That would be something you'd need to evaluate and research.  There is probably no cookie cutter solution.  Heck, you may find that one of the points-based resort networks like Worldmark, FF/Wyndham or BlueGreen will serve your needs without you ever having to pay to join an exchange network service.


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## aliikai2 (Jul 5, 2007)

*To Join II cost about $86 per year*

Any affiliated timeshare will get you an II membership for the $86 per year, and any II member can take as many Getaways as they have time for, so there is no 12 week limit.

These are smoke and mirror benefits, no real value, just additional hype.
You can by a $1 ebay timeshare, or some of the less than $25 units listed here that trades will II and get all these benefits.

RCI has the same type of program, and some folks really are able to take advantage of off season or short notice getaways, they have never been of any value to us..

Greg



adutton said:


> Wow... you folks really do know what you are talking about.  I go to lunch and get back and the response is overwelming! That is incredible! Thanks all that posted.  forgot I could search closed auctions on ebay like that.  I will do so asap.  It is 2pm here and fed ex doesn't come until 4 so I have a few hours to sort it out. Question... how much is the II membership worth?  If I purchase resale I won't get that as a benny paid for.  How much would it cost me just to signup to use II? And is it worth it? thanks


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## Polly Metallic (Jul 5, 2007)

I can appreciate what you're going through after hearing all the exciting salesperson hype about the resort. We have sat through at least 12-15 presentations at various resorts, and the salepeople can make you practically lust for owning at their resort! I'd be willing to bet that if you attended another half a dozen timeshare presentations, you'd come away impressed and excited about most of them. Each one would have some great selling points to make you think you can't live without buying there. Many would be far more luxurious than the place you just saw. Far more. I hope you are able to get out of this purchase. Timeshares are great in that you get upscale facilities, a whole condo instead of a room, planned activities, etc. But you can get all that at a fraction of the cost with a RESALE. Getting an II or RCI membership is no big deal and not worth a lot, so don't let that influence your decision. Vegas has a lot of resorts and is not a hot trader. You can buy a cheap timeshare somewhere else and trade into this resort, with no problem.


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## somerville (Jul 5, 2007)

adutton said:


> Question... how much is the II membership worth?  If I purchase resale I won't get that as a benny paid for.  How much would it cost me just to signup to use II? And is it worth it? thanks



The current fee for a basic II annual membership is $84 per year.  If you purchase a multiple year membership, there will be some discount.  You can call II and get further information.  Usually, the developer pays for an initial membership, and you are responsible for the cost after it expires.  All II members have access to Getaways.  The costs vary.  You do not get any cheaper rate on Getaways by buying from the developer.  Also, if your unit is a desirable week, II may give you an Accommodation Certificate if you deposit it for exchange.  The AC allows you to make an additional exchange for a fixed fee of $199 - $299.  Again, it does not matter to II how you acquired your week.  II is independent of the developers.

I hope you took the advice of others and rescinded.


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## Dave M (Jul 5, 2007)

adutton said:


> It is 2pm here and fed ex doesn't come until 4 so I have a few hours to sort it out.


I just looked back in on this thread after being out for the evening. 

I sure hope you didn't send your cancellation notice via Fed Ex. If you'll go back to my quote of Nevada law (post #8 in this thread), you'll see that Fed Ex is not one of the allowed cancellation methods under the law. I hope you sent it certified mail as was twice suggested. 

The resort might accept cancellation delivered by Fed Ex, but they don't have to.


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## Timeshare Von (Jul 6, 2007)

I too was checking in to see what he decided to do.  Hopefully we'll get an update tomorrow.


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## adutton (Jul 6, 2007)

Update... yesterday afternoon I called consolidated and they said in the packet there was a recinding letter, rushed home, filled it out, signed it, made a copy, also attached a memo, rushed to the post office and sent it registered mail with reciept delivery so now I think I am good to go. 

Now some questions... 

What should I worry about on the recinding? Will I need to call and bug them? will it just automatically happen?

Is the II basic membership worth getting? Do you really get that much money off your stay or is it just as easy to purchase then from others via ebay etc...

Also we still want to go forward with purchasing a timeshare, we also like consolidated.  I can easily setup an alert on ebay, craigs etc... but wanted to know how good the hawaii sites where?  We have four kids and it would be nice to be able to find a home place to go every year.  We don't want to have to move around and trade etc... just go to this one great resort each year. If we want to try out some others we can always purchase a one off week from someone.

Thanks for all the advice!


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## Dave M (Jul 6, 2007)

Congratulations! You made the right choice. 

You won't have to bug them. You should have your refund mailed to you within 15 days from when they receive your cancellation - what Nevada law allows. If you charged it to a credit card, Consolidated will process the credit within that 15-day period. How long it takes to show up on your credit card account depends on your credit card issuer.

I believe the basic II membership is worth getting, but you have to own a timeshare at a resort affiliated with II before you can join. Then the membership is useful for exchanging as well as getting some of those Getaway weeks, assuming, as you earlier indicated, that you could travel in off-seasons. 

However, there are strong alternatives to II. There are several small reputable exchange companies. There are also many, many places where you can rent the week of your dreams for very little. Try eBay for starters. Or Google the name of your dream timeshare resort along with words such as *rent* or *rental*. Or check some of the rental sites in the list of such sites located at the top of the list of topics for the Buying, Selling, Renting forum.


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## Timeshare Von (Jul 6, 2007)

I'm glad you were able to do what you needed to, to rescind the purchase.  My experience has been that you will not need to do anything relative to rescinding.  Assuming you paid the deposit by credit card, it will probably take a week to 10 days to see the credit back.  If you have a billing cycle and payment due before you see the credit, call the credit card company, refute the charge and explain that it was a cancelled purchase with a refund pending.  Your account will be marked as such and you shouldn't incur any finance charges, etc. for not paying that amount.

They may contact you to give you the full court press on why you rescinded . . . and to ask that you return all of the owners' materials that you received at the time of purchase.

Now for your TS specific questions . . .

I don't know why you would want or need II if you are hoping to buy at the resort you and your family want to vacation to every year.  Admittedly I'm confused because I thought your intent in buying in Las Vegas was that you liked that resort and yet now you're talking about Hawaii.  Are you looking to vacation in Las Vegas every year . . . Hawaii . . . or just other resorts in the same "group" (i.e., within the Consolidated family of resorts . . . or Fairfield/Wyndham/Worldmark or BlueGreen, etc)??

For me, if I had no intentions of ever exchanging with II I would not join.  It's expensive to join and maintain membership and you will pay for the exchange itself.  It is possible to do rentals for less than the cost of your MF's + II Annual Fee + Exchange Fee.  You could even rent your ownership use and use that money to pay the rental fees for another TS with a TUG owner 

Now that you have the monkey off your back, you really need to read and read and assess your personal needs and desires relative to your future vacation plans.  That will put you in a better place to ask informed questions that will help you make the best decision for your situation.  There are probably 100's of questions you could ask, and folks here can answer, but if they are not relevant to your situation, do they really matter?


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## Jya-Ning (Jul 6, 2007)

yeah, I kind of agree with Von.  You say you have flexibility.  Then you have kids that will or in the school.  You say you want to stay in Vagas, then you are looking for II membership and Hawaii.  Sounds like you are very confused and get too many different dream mixed together.

You may want to sit down with your family, see what you really want to do with your vacation time, and what you like to do, and where you perfer to go.  Then it is better to figure out if you want own timeshare or just go to eBay to rent it.

Jya-Ning


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## djs (Jul 6, 2007)

adutton said:


> Update... yesterday afternoon I called consolidated and they said in the packet there was a recinding letter, rushed home, filled it out, signed it, made a copy, also attached a memo, rushed to the post office and sent it registered mail with reciept delivery so now I think I am good to go.



This isn't the first time I've seen someone post that they used "Registered" mail to send their rescission.  All the advice I've seen here tells people to follow their instructions to a T.  Is sending something Registered instead of Certified enough for a TS to say the purchaser did not comply?

Here is some info I found on the two:

Certified mail provides you with a receipt at the time of mailing and a record of delivery. Certified is a good choice when you want to prove that you mailed something and that it was received. Items travel as first class mail. 

Cost $1.40 for certified plus $1.25 for the return receipt, plus postage, or $2.65 plus first class postage.

Registered mail is a highly secure form of delivery that is documented at each step of the way. Registered mail is best for sending documents or items that have an intrinsic value, where security is important. Mail takes approximately one day longer than certified mail to arrive as it has to be accounted for at each step along the way. This mail is kept under lock and key during its journey. 

Cost $6.00 for registered handling plus first class postage.



Now, the prices may be out of date, but I think the descriptions of what's provided probably are accurate.


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## aliikai2 (Jul 6, 2007)

*Living in the Great NW*

Two of the best ownerships for us are WM ( worldmark/trendwest) or VI
(Vacation Internationale)
Both have drive to resorts , both have resorts in Hawaii ( Wm has 4 VI has 10)
Both are point systems that allow you to reserve space at 13 months (wm) or 12 months (vi) at any of their resorts.

WM points run about .80 each resale and you will need 10-12k for a bright red 2 bedroom week. So somewhere around $9500 will buy you a week a year in prime 2 bedroom. The annual fees are about $600. WM trades with II, RCI and all the independents.
WM is owned by the same company as RCI, and Fairfield, it is now called Wyndam. The board of directors is not owner friendly, a strictly for profit outlook. WM is adding resorts in areas that make me wonder, like Oklahoma??

VI points run about $15-25 resale . You will need 133 for a prime red 2 bedroom, or about $3325. The annual costs are $6.56 per point or $872.48.
VI trades with II, RCI and all the independents.
VI is owned by it's owners and it's board of directors are concerned about owners. The company has hired VRI to manage its resorts. VI was 23 resorts 2 years ago, now it is 33 and growing in high demand areas.
VI has 3 seasons ( even in Hawaii) where for example you can reserve a week in June in a 2 bedroom on the ocean on Maui for 94.5 points, or the 4th of July for 112 points. 

I like both systems, we own VI mostly because of the 10 Hawaiian Resorts.

Here is a link http://www.viresorts.com/resorts/resortlocations.html
go an explore.


jmho, Greg




adutton said:


> Is the II basic membership worth getting? Do you really get that much money off your stay or is it just as easy to purchase then from others via ebay etc...
> 
> Also we still want to go forward with purchasing a timeshare, we also like consolidated.  I can easily setup an alert on ebay, craigs etc... but wanted to know how good the hawaii sites where?  We have four kids and it would be nice to be able to find a home place to go every year.  We don't want to have to move around and trade etc... just go to this one great resort each year. If we want to try out some others we can always purchase a one off week from someone.
> 
> Thanks for all the advice!


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## Timeshare Von (Jul 6, 2007)

Greg - great info and analysis for the OP.  I learned some stuff too about VI!!

I didn't realize that Royal Kuhio in Waikiki is part of VI.  How would an ownership there work with VI?  I often see people dumping Royal Kuhio studios and 1BRs, sometime even two that are represented at "adjoining" units (but not "lockoffs"?)  The listings I've seen seem to be for floating annual use weeks.  Are they actually weeks or do they convert somehow into points . . . and how would the OP use them (either weeks or points) within the system?

Seems to be a good solution for what we know so far about his vacationing interests.


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## UWSurfer (Jul 6, 2007)

Congratulations on finding Tug and listening to everyone.

A few tips from this point forward...

1) Become a member and join tug.  $15 is CHEAP and will let you access the member reviews of properties all over the world, which is an invaluable resource.

2) Read, read, read, ask questions and read more.

3) Go back and wade through the sticky post at top of the Newbie board http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/announcement.php?f=17&a=30

4) Give yourself at LEAST another 60 - 90 days before you buy anything else.  You need time to sort all this out and the deals are readily availalble.

5) As has already been said, sit down and figure out what it is you are after.  Do you want to own in Vegas, or do you want to go to a number of destinations?  Do you like constant action or quiet?  Do you go someplace for structured activities or do you like doing your own thing?  There are several options and they all can get complicated.  Some resorts have their own trading system among their own properties and give first priority to owners to book into an affilliated property a certain number of months out before it becomes available to the general public.  Each system has it's own rules and structure.

6) Once you think you know what you want to do, check out the resorts and/or groups you think address your needs.  Read the reviews here and ask more questions on-line.  You'll find that many of us have experience with one group or system which we own.  Some have experience with independent resorts which exchange (trade) through one or more of the various systems...and there are several.   Feel them out as to whether a paricular place or club fits you.

7) Once you think you know, check the ads, ask for recommendations and seriously consider resale.  You can save some serious money over buying from the developer...but you will also have to do a little more work and it helps to buy from or through someone whom others have had positive experiences with.

8) ALWAYS buy where you want to go vacation.  There is no point in purchasing a place you don't want to stay at particularly for your first property.  You have no guarantee you'll be able to exchange it and you'll be on the hook for the purchase, maintenance fees, taxes.   You should at least want to go and use your place.  I have a couple of family members and friends who purchased a few years back and to my shock have never used their time yet.

8b) My own personal rule is the place(s) I own should be within a one day car trip or less from where I live.  That way I don't have the excuse I can't afford to go because of airfare, travel hassles or ???

9) Lastly know that purchasing a time share is very much like buying a car.  There are fancy ones, big ones, stripped down models and clunkers.  They almost never appreciate in value and should not purchased with the idea that you'll make money on it.  It's an investment in future vacations and fun...not financial gain.

Welcome to Tug!   You made the right decision.


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## brucecz (Jul 6, 2007)

IMHO you should  not buy anything for at least 3 months until you have a basic understanding of several timeshare systems. You can make the learning process a intresting future money and stress saving project that may turninto a hobby.

I am not saying the system you almost bought is a bad one but you may find a system that better fits your needs.

Maybe you might end up wanting a system that is dually afillated and that can be used in both RCI and II.

Remember timeshares are easy to buy but not so easy to sell.

Bruce


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## DaveNV (Jul 6, 2007)

djs said:


> This isn't the first time I've seen someone post that they used "Registered" mail to send their rescission.  All the advice I've seen here tells people to follow their instructions to a T.  Is sending something Registered instead of Certified enough for a TS to say the purchaser did not comply?
> 
> Now, the prices may be out of date, but I think the descriptions of what's provided probably are accurate.





Certified Mail vs. Registered Mail:  I recently learned the difference during a TS purchase:  I sent signed documents from Washington state to Florida via Certified Mail, and paid for the Return Receipt.  I figured it was smart to do it that way, since there would be a paper trail, and I'd be notifed when the documents were delivered.  Nobody explained the actual process to me of what truly happens with Certified Mail.  And as luck would have it, the documents didn't arrive in a timely manner - and everyone involved decided they were "lost in the mail."    

When I pitched a fit about poor service and such, the Post Office told me with Certified Mail, all they do is log when it leaves the local post office, and when it arrives at the receiving post office.  The Return Receipt is mailed back to me when signed by the addressee.  But there is NO RECORD of what happens to Certified Mail anywhere along the way, including (as in my case) when it gets lost.  (I resent the docs via UPS, and they arrived without a hitch a few days later.)  

And surprise, surprise:  After *23 DAYS *the Certified Mail documents magically arrived at the Florida post office one day, with no explanation whatsoever for where they'd been all that time.  The best excuse the post office could give me was, "These things happen from time to time."

I was then told that if I had sent something Registered Mail, it would be hand-tracked at each step of the way, (similar to what UPS tracking numbers do.)  It would have cost me several dollars more to send the original mailing via Registered, with Return Receipt, but it would have saved the hassle of resending the "lost" docs, as well as the additional expense of the second mailing.  And of course, there are no refunds for non-delivery until/unless they prove they were truly "lost in the mail."

Bottom line:  Registered mail is better than Certified.  And get the Return Receipt in either case.

In the case of a Recission document as this thread is discussing, I'd spare no expense to make sure it got to where it needed to be in a timely manner.

Dave


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## aliikai2 (Jul 6, 2007)

*Are you thinking of the Kuhio Banyan?*

That was a rtu that is being renewed that had 2 studios together.

The Royal Kuhio is not in that complex, it shares the building with Lifetime Hawaii, and some private ownerships and is called one of Honolulu's most fashionable addresses.

VI does have a program like PFD called DEO, where you can deposit any red or white week for extra VI points. It isn't free, it costs $125 per deposit, but if your annual fees are low, it is worth it. 

It also allows you to exchange into some great resorts without belonging to an exchange company. They have several weeks in Paris for next spring 

Greg



Timeshare Von said:


> Greg - great info and analysis for the OP.  I learned some stuff too about VI!!
> 
> I didn't realize that Royal Kuhio in Waikiki is part of VI.  How would an ownership there work with VI?  I often see people dumping Royal Kuhio studios and 1BRs, sometime even two that are represented at "adjoining" units (but not "lockoffs"?)  The listings I've seen seem to be for floating annual use weeks.  Are they actually weeks or do they convert somehow into points . . . and how would the OP use them (either weeks or points) within the system?
> 
> Seems to be a good solution for what we know so far about his vacationing interests.


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## Timeshare Von (Jul 6, 2007)

aliikai2 said:


> That was a rtu that is being renewed that had 2 studios together.
> 
> The Royal Kuhio is not in that complex, it shares the building with Lifetime Hawaii, and some private ownerships and is called one of Honolulu's most fashionable addresses.
> 
> ...




Thanks again Greg for the further explanation.  Maybe I do have Royal Kuhio and Kuhio Banyan confused (in terms of the sales ads I recall seeing).  Being an owner at Lifetime in Hawaii in the Royal Kuhio highrise, I really do like the location, building ammenities, etc. which was why your VI info caught my eye, thinking the ads were for Royal Kuhio and not the Kuhio Banyan.

Anyway, thanks again for the info.


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## DeniseM (Jul 6, 2007)

adutton said:


> but wanted to know how good the hawaii sites where?  We have four kids and it would be nice to be able to find a home place to go every year.



For many people, airfare to Hawaii every year for a family of 6 would be prohibitive, especially since you have to go during peak seasons when the kids are out of school.  If you got a great summer airfare at $500 each, with taxes and everything, airfare will still cost you more than $3,000 every year.  

Then, because Hawaii activites, dining out, and groceries are expensive, add another $3,000 for food, activities, and a rental car.  

PLUS paying your maintenance fees, which are also high in Hawaii.  In round figures a nice 2 bdm. in Hawaii will probably run a $1,000 a year in maintenance fees and taxes.  

Now we are up to $7,000 a year for a one week vacation in Hawaii.  That's a lot.    

With a large family, I would definitely find something within driving distance - I see you're in Seattle, but maybe the beach in CA would work for you?


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## adutton (Jul 6, 2007)

Holy moly i am so glad i found this forum!  And for sure I will become a member.  And agree that I will have to suck up some info, read read read and maybe be more ready for purchase later in the season.  Until then I can also visit some more timeshares and get free lodging in vegas (vegas is appealing because from Washington state it is only a 2 hour flight).  For the record I picked registerd mail because it was allot more expensive so I figured better try it... for a letter including return receipt was $12  but worth it I think!


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## Dave M (Jul 6, 2007)

adutton said:


> For the record I picked registered mail....


For the record, registered mail is not the same as certified mail. Certified mail is the only U.S. mail option provided for in Nevada law as means to cancel. My guess is that you will be lucky this time and Consolidated will choose to accept your cancellation, although they don't have to since you didn't follow the law.

For your own protection, next time (if there is a next time), follow the specified procedures exactly! Deciding to choose a method not specified can get v-e-r-y expensive!


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## DaveNV (Jul 6, 2007)

adutton said:


> Holy moly i am so glad i found this forum!  And for sure I will become a member.  And agree that I will have to suck up some info, read read read and maybe be more ready for purchase later in the season.  Until then I can also visit some more timeshares and get free lodging in vegas (vegas is appealing because from Washington state it is only a 2 hour flight).  For the record I picked registerd mail because it was allot more expensive so I figured better try it... for a letter including return receipt was $12  but worth it I think!




We're happy to have you around.  The $15 spent to join TUG will be the wisest TS investment you ever make.  These friendly folks have saved me thousands.

As for your idea of where to buy for your family to vacation:  Note that I'm also from Washington.  I understand the travel time it takes to get somewhere nice.  I think you should consider buying the best you can afford in Hawaii.  That way you'll have the "home resort to visit every year" you've mentioned, with the added bonus of being able to trade out to just about anywhere when the mood strikes you.  The exact locations will vary, of course, and are dependent on what it is you're exchanging, but overall I think you'd be pleased with your choices.  Hawaii is generally easier to trade away than to trade into, especially if you're trying to get back to the Mainland.  And some places owned elsewhere may not have the trading power to get you where you want to go.

As for specifically visiting Las Vegas and such, you might find that RENTING a TS there, rather than EXCHANGING into a TS there, may be a lot less expensive, and offer a much greater choice of where to stay.  There is no shortage of available Las Vegas timeshare inventory, and many of those timeshares end up in the "last call" type vacations for pennies on the dollar.

Dave


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## talkamotta (Jul 6, 2007)

I wouldnt be in any hurry to buy a timeshare.  As others have said, *join Tug for the review section. * It has saved me sooooo  much money when I am looking to buy a timeshare and its great for exchanging.  Take your time and bid low. 

There are many different ways you can go. I think that is the hardest part, deciding on your particular strategy.  You have to think about what you want now and what you will want in 10 years.  How will your life change, family, etc.  Living in the west, I too would look hard at Worldmark.  

 If you like Consolidated and want to stay with them, there are some Sands of Kahana 2 bedrooms that are real cheap right now on ebay.  Dont know what they will sell for?  Sands of Kahana is a very nice resort.  The mf's are high and check out the archives, there are changes going on, so be aware.  If you want Hawaii and are planning on going there most every year, that would be a good one but its only one of many. 

 I dont know if you have been to Hawaii, Maui is a nice island but its not my favorite, but I am no expert on Hawaii.   I think its a good idea to check out a place before you go.  Unlike me who has bought most of her timeshares sight unseen on Ebay.  I have been lucky...


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## PStreet1 (Jul 7, 2007)

Someone in the thread mentioned Worldmark.  Since you are in the Northwest, you should look into it.  Worldmark has many resorts within driving distance from you, and many more farther away, including Australia, Orlando, Las Vegas, and Hawaii.  They also have affialiated resorts, many within the Fairfield timeshare system.  Since Worldmark is a points based membership club, you don't own at any one of the resorts; you can reserve time at any of them, and it isn't difficult to get anywhere you want to go.  Maint. fees are low:  not much over $400.00 a year for 10,000 points which will secure a red season 2 bedroom unit most places.  There are so many worldmark resorts that you might never want RCI or II.  If you do want the major exchange companies, it's easy to join.

Check out the official web site:  www.worldmarktheclub.com

Then check out the unofficial web site where owners talk about where to purchase Worldmark at a discount, how to maximize your membership, etc.
http://www.wmowners.com/forum

It might be the perfect Timeshare ownership group for you.


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## adutton (Jul 9, 2007)

I will check them out as well... thanks for the info.  I am now an official TUG member so i get lots more to read! Whoo Hoo!


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## WazzuCougFan (Jul 9, 2007)

I bought my timeshare a year ago after lurking this site for quite some time. I still consider myself a newbie.

Since you are also from the great state of Washington, you might consider looking at Wapato Point on Lake Chelan and Manson Bay...when you're ready, of course!  I purchased my timeshare resale. My particular unit gives me three weeks per year there (one white, one blue and one red). I rent out the red week, which recoups the maintenance fees for the year. Since it is an RCI Points resort and my unit was already transferred to Points when I got it, the other two weeks I use in the Points program. I have enough points to do pretty much what I want to, especially since you are allowed to borrow from the next year. So far we've been to Kala Point in Port Townsend, have a 10-day reservation at HGVC Seaworld in Orlando in December, have a July 4 week reserved at Ocean Shores in 2008, and have reserved the red weeks at Wapato when needed.

I haven't been to Wapato Point yet, but it looks great, has gotten wonderful reviews, and is only about a three-hour drive from Seattle.

Also, the Wyndham/Trendwest program might be something that would interest you as well, since it is geared towards the Northwest.

Good luck and happy reading.


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## talkamotta (Jul 9, 2007)

adutton said:


> I will check them out as well... thanks for the info.  I am now an official TUG member so i get lots more to read! Whoo Hoo!



Welcome to TUG...  

You will become addicted (and overwhelmed) by this site, so take your time. Even after 10 years of timesharing, I still learn new things all the time.  No one person will ever know everything.  Just the things that are important and work for them.  

My strategy after 10 years has changed some.  My goals are a little different but the journey has been very rewarding for me and my family.


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## Martinis (Jul 9, 2007)

Hello all - Very new here - just registered.  Contemplating a purchase of a timeshare but have no idea where to start.  Have a young child (age 5) and would definitely want to take a vacation every year - and for the next few years we will be in Orlando - I guess the best idea would be to get into something relatively cheap (if that can be done) and "trade" into the Orlando area.  Anyone have any great bargains or ideas!!!

Thanks
C


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## Courts (Jul 9, 2007)

jeepguynw said:


> Certified Mail vs. Registered Mail:  I recently learned the difference during a TS purchase:  I sent signed documents from Washington state to Florida via Certified Mail, and paid for the Return Receipt.  I figured it was smart to do it that way, since there would be a paper trail, and I'd be notifed when the documents were delivered.  Nobody explained the actual process to me of what truly happens with Certified Mail.  And as luck would have it, the documents didn't arrive in a timely manner - and everyone involved decided they were "lost in the mail."
> 
> When I pitched a fit about poor service and such, the Post Office told me with Certified Mail, all they do is log when it leaves the local post office, and when it arrives at the receiving post office.  The Return Receipt is mailed back to me when signed by the addressee.  But there is NO RECORD of what happens to Certified Mail anywhere along the way, including (as in my case) when it gets lost.  (I resent the docs via UPS, and they arrived without a hitch a few days later.)
> 
> ...



Funny thing, I worked for the post office and believed that Registered mail was the best because everyone along the line must sign for it. However, I once sent a very special document Registered because of it's importance to me. 

As luck would have it, THEY LOST THE REGISTERED MAIL. It took three weeks to find the REGISTERED MAIL.  

They still occasionally find letters from WW-II  ????

.


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## Courts (Jul 9, 2007)

Martinis said:


> Hello all - Very new here - just registered.  Contemplating a purchase of a timeshare but have no idea where to start.  Have a young child (age 5) and would definitely want to take a vacation every year - and for the next few years we will be in Orlando - I guess the best idea would be to get into something relatively cheap (if that can be done) and "trade" into the Orlando area.  Anyone have any great bargains or ideas!!!
> 
> Thanks
> C


Check out this section first. Good info http://www.tug2.net/tugadvic.shtml for anyone wanting to purchase a TS.


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## Martinis (Jul 9, 2007)

Thanks for the heads up - been lurking and reading, reading, reading for a while - Have a few questions - not sure which is a better buy points or week.  I do know that I do not want a set week and would like to take advantage of the "trading" - but with less than 5,000 to spend I am not sure if I can buy enough points to make it worth it.  I have read that as a newbie I should avoid resales and buy direct from a developer.  Anyone know anything about SA timeshares?  We have a friend who bought in Durban area (for very cheap) and seems to be able to trade each year into the Orlando area - is this too good to be true? - For the price, if you get more than 2 years of trades it has paid for itself. So I guess we are looking for a cheap timeshare that trades well!!


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## Courts (Jul 10, 2007)

Martinis said:


> Thanks for the heads up - been lurking and reading, reading, reading for a while - Have a few questions - not sure which is a better buy points or week.  I do know that I do not want a set week and would like to take advantage of the "trading" - but with less than 5,000 to spend I am not sure if I can buy enough points to make it worth it.


Can't help with points.


> I have read that as a newbie I should avoid resales and buy direct from a developer.


You have that backwards in my opinion.


> Anyone know anything about SA timeshares?  We have a friend who bought in Durban area (for very cheap) and seems to be able to trade each year into the Orlando area - is this too good to be true?


Orlando is relativley easy to trade into.



> - For the price, if you get more than 2 years of trades it has paid for itself. So I guess we are looking for a *cheap timeshare that trades well*!!


I think we are all looking for that.


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## brucecz (Jul 10, 2007)

In the past 12 months there have been a lot of good RCI Points resorts to grab if you had spent the time to to learn about and grab some of the sleepers.

There were quite a few that had yerly maintenance fees that will be less than a penny per RCI point and less than 2 to 4 cents a RCI point to buy.
But IMHO you have to know how to identify those sleepers without having to ask and/orother peoples opinions.

IMHO I would uggest you watch and track ebay for at for several months before you even think of bidding.

IMHO  anyone we need to understand 100% how a particual type of timeshare ownership works before bidding to avoid major costly frustrating mistakes.


In regards to buying a RCI Points resort from a  deleveloper I never have and never will when I can get the same RCI Points product buying resale at as low as only :whoopie: 10% of what the developer would charge. 

Bruce


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## ladycody (Jul 11, 2007)

I had a friend that was going to jump on SA and got worried about the rand's fluctuating values (meaning mf's could jump around).  Not sure how valid it was...but it's something worth looking into.


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## PStreet1 (Jul 11, 2007)

Martinis, you have a private message--see top of screen.


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## macko420 (Jul 23, 2007)

Is there anything you can do if you missed the period of time when you can recind besides sell it?  Is there some legal way to get out of the deal?  Thanks.


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## Jya-Ning (Jul 23, 2007)

macko420 said:


> Is there anything you can do if you missed the period of time when you can recind besides sell it?  Is there some legal way to get out of the deal?  Thanks.



Not lawyer, but IMHO, not much.  Unless you can prove when you sign the contract, you are either under heavy influence, or insane.  If you totally bankrupt, it will be another matter.

Jya-Ning


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## In The Pink (Jul 23, 2007)

brucecz said:


> In the past 12 months there have been a lot of good RCI Points resorts to grab if you had spent the time to to learn about and grab some of the sleepers.
> Bruce



Bruce, that's what I'm trying to do, but what I haven't yet understood is how to know whether or not it's a "sleeper" or a "dog"?  I mean, not everything that has a low maintenance fee is something worth grabbing is it?  How would I know if a resort trades well?

Thanks.


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## geekette (Jul 24, 2007)

If it's RCI points, it doesn't matter, cuz a point is a point.  Trading power is for weeks.

I'd be more concerned about the general upkeep of the resort - like, is a special assessment imminent because the mf have been kept artificially low for too long?


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## In The Pink (Jul 25, 2007)

Ahhh.... thanks, Geekette!  That clears up a lot of fog!


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## Zac495 (Jul 30, 2007)

Did you rescind?


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