# Wyndham: Which resort has the lowest M/F?



## justmeinflorida (Jul 22, 2012)

I've come a conclusion...since we can book or vaca's in a 60 day window having ARP status is not an issue for us. With that being said does anyone know which resorts have the lowest M/F's?


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## pacodemountainside (Jul 22, 2012)

Simple question, but complex answer.

Go to HOA fee calculator on Wyndham form  and it will give  absolute numbers for virtually all resorts and units.

Generally new resorts  where tons of points are required to use and  big parking fees. But if not going there   not a problem! Points are points!

Converted points  at older resorts  can also be a bargain.

Catch is    Wyndham subsidizes  HOA fees at new resorts. Big increase is probable!


Many savvy buyers are looking for and  contracts are not available. Look  at bargain weeks here and $1.00  offerings on e-bay.  Probably none  under $4.00/$1,000 contracts offered!


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## rrlongwell (Jul 22, 2012)

pacodemountainside said:


> Simple question, but complex answer...



Be careful, look at age of resort, condition of resort, and do not worry about speculation that Wyndham will raise HOA fees as the resort ages and the Wyndham points are Wyndham points argument is just a red haring.  Raised maintance fees can happen for new resorts or older resorts.  Special Assessments, I suspect, are more likely at the older resorts, the Wyndham Points are Wyndham points argument is discussed in detail on numerous other threads.

I think you should take a look at Smokey Mountain and National Harbor.  I have been to both resorts and think they are good facilities.  I own at Smokey Mountain.  I am not saying these are the only two good candidates, but these are the two that I think are in great conditions facilities wise.  I would recommend Smokey Mountain over National Harbor.  My recommendation is based soley on the fact I do not think a whole lot of National Harbor Management.


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## justmeinflorida (Jul 22, 2012)

pacodemountainside said:


> Simple question, but complex answer.
> 
> Go to HOA fee calculator on Wyndham form  and it will give  absolute numbers for virtually all resorts and units.
> 
> ...



Most auctions/re-sales quote a price for all fee's...including taxes, assessments, etc. So does one count these also in the $X.xx/$1k?


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## Rent_Share (Jul 22, 2012)

MF's amounts in auctions are notoriously inaccurate, you will need to confirm the amount with the resort based on the membership number

Remember eBay auctions for real estate are non binding -


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## rrlongwell (Jul 22, 2012)

justmeinflorida said:


> Most auctions/re-sales quote a price for all fee's...including taxes, assessments, etc. So does one count these also in the $X.xx/$1k?



For purchase purposes, I would count all fees and taxes in the calucation.  However, with very few exceptions, the program fee is a standard point per thousand fee.


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## antjmar (Jul 22, 2012)

justmeinflorida said:


> I've come a conclusion...since we can book or vaca's in a 60 day window having ARP status is not an issue for us. With that being said does anyone know which resorts have the lowest M/F's?


Be aware just cause you can travel with 60 days notice doesnt mean you will find what you want available. For example Myrtle beach or Newport almost nothing available 60 days out for summer.  Some Newport resorts are practically  booked solid till late October Early November!


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## justmeinflorida (Jul 22, 2012)

rrlongwell said:


> For purchase purposes, I would count all fees and taxes in the calucation.  However, with very few exceptions, the program fee is a standard point per thousand fee.



I'm having a hard time finding points in those ranges though. A lot of what I've seen have been in the mid $5/k.


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## justmeinflorida (Jul 22, 2012)

antjmar said:


> Be aware just cause you can travel with 60 days notice doesnt mean you will find what you want available. For example Myrtle beach or Newport almost nothing available 60 days out for summer.  Some Newport resorts are practically  booked solid till late October Early November!



We don't necessarily have to go to Myrtle in the summer and we won't even consider doing a drive like that until my son (17mo) is older.


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## rrlongwell (Jul 22, 2012)

A Smokey Mountain deed that I own:

Total HOA Fee
Total HOA Fee for 1,000 Points: $4.17
Maintenance Fees: (77,000 / 1000) * $3.18 = $244.86 
Reserve Fund: (77,000 / 1000) * $0.88 = $67.76 
Property Tax: (77,000 / 1000) * $0.11 = $8.47 
Total HOA Fee: (77,000 / 1000) * $4.17 = $321.09

http://www.ebay.com/itm/320948557753?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649 is a Smokey Mountain deed, however, it does not appear to disclose the annual maintance fees.


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## Beefnot (Jul 22, 2012)

Zephyr Cove and Canterbury are the lowest.


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## rrlongwell (Jul 22, 2012)

Beefnot said:


> Zephyr Cove and Canterbury are the lowest.



I did not see any listings on E-Bay for the above two or for National Harbor.


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## pacodemountainside (Jul 22, 2012)

rrlongwell said:


> For purchase purposes, I would count all fees and taxes in the calucation.  However, with very few exceptions, the program fee is a standard point per thousand fee.



RR:

What are we going to do with you? Have PR  sanction you?

Program fee on resales is $98.00 whether one has 28K points or 192K. After that it is $.51/1,000!

OP: As I  originally responded ,  if ARP is not a consideration  tons of savvy buyers looking for  say 154K contracts with  low MF. Even in junk market there is  worthless junk(high MF , small contract and no ARP)  and salvagable junk that goes in a hurray!


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## rrlongwell (Jul 22, 2012)

justmeinflorida said:


> We don't necessarily have to go to Myrtle in the summer and we won't even consider doing a drive like that until my son (17mo) is older.



Before you disregard Myrtle Beach, you may want to consider the fact that this area has a very very strong demand for summer for as long as I can remember.  I will get you an example of the maintance fees for Towers on the Grove, the cheapest that I am aware of in Myrtle.

Total HOA Fee
Total HOA Fee for 1,000 Points: $4.34
Maintenance Fees: (84,000 / 1000) * $3.03 = $254.52 
Reserve Fund: (84,000 / 1000) * $1.05 = $88.20 
Property Tax: (84,000 / 1000) * $0.26 = $21.84 
Total HOA Fee: (84,000 / 1000) * $4.34 = $364.56

I own at this resort, however, I have not had a chance to stay there at this point.  It is one of the newest additions to Wyndhamland.  A friend of ours stayed there recently and indicated it was a very good resort but the rooms are a bit smaller than other Wyndham resorts in Myrtle.  The points needed to stay there typically are higher than Westwinds and Seawatch Plantation, but there is a Receipical ARP right into the other Myrtle resorts at the 11 month period.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/390441785152?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649


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## Rent_Share (Jul 22, 2012)

rrlongwell said:


> I did not see any listings on E-Bay for the above two or for National Harbor.


 
Completed , they are not common, but they do show up



http://www.ebay.com/itm/WYNDHAM-FAI...40798693826?pt=Timeshares&hash=item20c84191c2


http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw...CURRENCY=0&_osacat=10542&_dmd=1&LH_Complete=1


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## rrlongwell (Jul 22, 2012)

Rent_Share said:


> http://www.ebay.com/itm/WYNDHAM-FAI...40798693826?pt=Timeshares&hash=item20c84191c2
> 
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw...CURRENCY=0&_osacat=10542&_dmd=1&LH_Complete=1



Thanks for the post.


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## Cheryl20772 (Jul 22, 2012)

We are enjoying our ownership at Panama City Beach.  It was first opened by Wyndham in Nov 2007 and the fees for 2012 are quite reasonable:

Wyndham Vacation Resorts Panama City Beach
Maintenance Fees $2.83
Reserve Fund $0.44
Property Tax $0.11
Total $3.38

I have no idea what effect Wyndham's development involvement will have on fees and it's on the Gulf; so a hurricane could come along and make them have to do a special assessment.  So far so good.  We are just regular silver VIP owners and Presidential Reserve owners have a slightly higher fee schedule there.


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## Beefnot (Jul 22, 2012)

Rent_Share said:


> Completed , they are not common, but they do show up
> 
> 
> 
> ...



The MFs listed in that ebay auction for Zephyr Cove were wrong. They are actually around $3 per thousand points.


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## ausman (Jul 23, 2012)

Right, the points are points approach.

Not always the right way but probably fits 95% of us.

Often converted Prime summer weeks can have the lowest fees. Need to become conversant with Wyndham and what resorts apply.

Other than that, UDI points at some of the resorts that have had a long history of low MF's. Tahoe, South Shore 3.45, Steamboat Springs 3.27, next tier and most available resale, Smokey Mts 4.17 and Grand Desert 4.10.

Then there are are the newer developments with low fees, probably still Developer subsidized, National Harbor 3.46 and Destin, Emerald Beach 3.27. Canterbury would belong to this group also.

At this time with owning other Wyndham points, if I wanted more points I would take the points are points approach and buy at one of the above locations.


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## rrlongwell (Jul 23, 2012)

pacodemountainside said:


> RR:
> 
> What are we going to do with you? Have PR  sanction you?
> 
> ...



As I understand it, you are flat wrong.  What I understand you are referring to is that if you have under a certain minium number of points that there is a $98 dollar minium program fee.  If you are over that number than it is less.  If I am right this does not have anything to do with re-sale.  This would be true for re-sale, developer purchase, inhertance, etc.  Also, it does not necessarily tract to a contract, it tracks to number of points in the account.  An example would be if you bought a 55,000 point re-sale contract the program fee is the lesser fee if you already have an account with a 154,000 thousand contract.

If all else fails, you motto appears to be attack the person.


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## rrlongwell (Jul 23, 2012)

basham said:


> ... Then there are are the newer developments with low fees, probably still Developer subsidized, National Harbor 3.46 and Destin, Emerald Beach 3.27. Canterbury would belong to this group also ...



How about Towers on the Grove?


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## antjmar (Jul 23, 2012)

justmeinflorida said:


> We don't necessarily have to go to Myrtle in the summer and we won't even consider doing a drive like that until my son (17mo) is older.


I understand it was just an example. Another example Bonnet creek Thanksgiving or Christmas week sold out months ago...  I was just stating that not lots of "prime" spots are available at 60 days IMO.  Also, your travel schedule will probably change when your son gets older 
If you are only buying a small contract the lowest MF ones will cost you more to purchase and you will save $100 to $200 a year in MF.  But I think you should try to purchase where you might want to visit some time and use your ARP. Good luck in  your search.


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## rrlongwell (Jul 23, 2012)

antjmar said:


> I understand it was just an example. Another example Bonnet creek Thanksgiving or Christmas week sold out months ago...  I was just stating that not lots of "prime" spots are available at 60 days IMO.  Also, your travel schedule will probably change when your son gets older
> If you are only buying a small contract the lowest MF ones will cost you more to purchase and you will save $100 to $200 a year in MF.  But I think you should try to purchase where you might want to visit some time and use your ARP. Good luck in  your search.



I agree with you.  Maintance Fees are not the major driving concern for me because:

1.  It does not happen often, but resorts can disaffilate from Wyndham.  So it is important you would use your ownership if it leaves the Wyndham Family.

2.  Availability changes due to market demand and actions by Corporate Wyndham.  The current emphisis on their rental group activities can make the ARP right increasingly more important.

3.  The underlying value of the resort is important in case you ever want to sell the timeshare.  Please note the ready availability of some resorts and lack thereof for others on E-Bay.

There are other reasons, but these make the point.  I happen to reject the Wyndham Point is a Point theory and subscribe to a Flight to Quality theory.


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## staceyeileen (Jul 24, 2012)

I have been watching ebay auctions like a hawk for several weeks now.  From what I've seen in those few weeks, the lowest MFs are at Smoky Mountains, Vegas, Tahoe, and some converted weeks I have seen at some older resorts such as Pagosa Springs.  Unfortunately, I have yet to place a bid because it seems that despite a lot of people on this board mentioning $1 auctions, the contracts with low MFs tend to sell for a pretty high price.  Once you tack on closing costs, which I find most sellers are charging, it is out of reach for me.  Still looking for that elusive 154k+ low MF contract with low closing costs!  Sigh.


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## pacodemountainside (Jul 24, 2012)

staceyeileen said:


> I have been watching ebay auctions like a hawk for several weeks now.  From what I've seen in those few weeks, the lowest MFs are at Smoky Mountains, Vegas, Tahoe, and some converted weeks I have seen at some older resorts such as Pagosa Springs.  Unfortunately, I have yet to place a bid because it seems that despite a lot of people on this board mentioning $1 auctions, the contracts with low MFs tend to sell for a pretty high price.  Once you tack on closing costs, which I find most sellers are charging, it is out of reach for me.  Still looking for that elusive 154k+ low MF contract with low closing costs!  Sigh.




Yes, $1.00 purchases are often mentioned but do not recall anyone posting they have low MF and high ARP!


My post #2!

Many savvy buyers are looking for and contracts are not available. Look at bargain weeks here and $1.00 offerings on e-bay. Probably none under $4.00/$1,000 contracts offered!

 __________________
 Paco


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## staceyeileen (Jul 24, 2012)

I've actually never seen an MF on ebay under $4/1,000.  Perhaps it's just the contract size I am going for, but at this point I get excited when I see something under $5/1,000.


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## Renny30 (Jul 24, 2012)

staceyeileen said:


> I have been watching ebay auctions like a hawk for several weeks now.  From what I've seen in those few weeks, the lowest MFs are at Smoky Mountains, Vegas, Tahoe, and some converted weeks I have seen at some older resorts such as Pagosa Springs.  Unfortunately, I have yet to place a bid because it seems that despite a lot of people on this board mentioning $1 auctions, the contracts with low MFs tend to sell for a pretty high price.  Once you tack on closing costs, which I find most sellers are charging, it is out of reach for me.  Still looking for that elusive 154k+ low MF contract with low closing costs!  Sigh.



Ive been watching and bidding on ebay as well. I think you can expect to pay close to a thousand w/ closing. People know those bargains and they are ready to pay for them.

I just snagged some Smoky Mtns pts on Redweek. Do you check there. I think you have to pay the $15 to contact a seller.


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## Renny30 (Jul 24, 2012)

staceyeileen said:


> I've actually never seen an MF on ebay under $4/1,000.  Perhaps it's just the contract size I am going for, but at this point I get excited when I see something under $5/1,000.



I agree under 5 has been rare. Everything under 4 has been for some insanely high number of points.


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## pacodemountainside (Jul 24, 2012)

rrlongwell said:


> As I understand it, you are flat wrong.  What I understand you are referring to is that if you have under a certain minium number of points that there is a $98 dollar minium program fee.  If you are over that number than it is less.  If I am right this does not have anything to do with re-sale.  This would be true for re-sale, developer purchase, inhertance, etc.  Also, it does not necessarily tract to a contract, it tracks to number of points in the account.  An example would be if you bought a 55,000 point re-sale contract the program fee is the lesser fee if you already have an account with a 154,000 thousand contract.
> 
> If all else fails, you motto appears to be attack the person.



RR:

I think you have been inhaling too much loco weed. OP was talking about  154K resale purchase as only ownership. My response addressed this SPECIFIC  situation!

Yes, if another purchaser had 154K Developer points with PP then the resale purchase  in same  name and account number would be  rolled into 209K points.  This would result in $117  minimum POA fee kicking in!

There are other  situations which would have to be   evaluated on specific facts  and  circumstances.

Are you suffering from a persecution complex or paranoia? Why  do you accuse those who disagree with or challenge your proselytizing  as attackers?

Also, as best I can recall you are only poster that disagrees with points are points. Could you elaborate on your theory of the case. Even at this  late stage of my life I  am a willing learner not an attack dog! Stare  Decisis!


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## staceyeileen (Jul 24, 2012)

Renny30 said:


> Ive been watching and bidding on ebay as well. I think you can expect to pay close to a thousand w/ closing. People know those bargains and they are ready to pay for them.
> 
> I just snagged some Smoky Mtns pts on Redweek. Do you check there. I think you have to pay the $15 to contact a seller.



Yeah, $1,000 does seem about right.  I thought long and hard about an auction yesterday that ultimately went for $1,500 (included 2012 points) but didn't end up bidding.  Kind of regretting it.  I'll check out red week.  Thanks!


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## staceyeileen (Jul 24, 2012)

nevermind, answered my own question...


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## Beefnot (Jul 24, 2012)

pacodemountainside said:


> Are you suffering from a persecution complex or paranoia? Why  do you accuse those who disagree with or challenge your proselytizing  as attackers?



Eh, you do have a tendency to attack, rrlongwell at least.  It is more than disagreement or challenge.


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## ronparise (Jul 24, 2012)

staceyeileen said:


> I have been watching ebay auctions like a hawk for several weeks now.  From what I've seen in those few weeks, the lowest MFs are at Smoky Mountains, Vegas, Tahoe, and some converted weeks I have seen at some older resorts such as Pagosa Springs.  Unfortunately, I have yet to place a bid because it seems that despite a lot of people on this board mentioning $1 auctions, the contracts with low MFs tend to sell for a pretty high price.  Once you tack on closing costs, which I find most sellers are charging, it is out of reach for me.  Still looking for that elusive 154k+ low MF contract with low closing costs!  Sigh.



I agree the $1 sales for contracts with mf under $6/1000 points  are gone

And the $1 deals for contracts with really low mf never were. 

I think you need to be prepared to spend about $1000 in up front costs to get what you want.


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## staceyeileen (Jul 24, 2012)

Ron, do resale timeshare prices tend to be seasonal at all?  Just wondering if it's a bad time of year...

I can handle $1,000 but probably not more than that per the thrifty husband!


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## scootr5 (Jul 24, 2012)

staceyeileen said:


> Ron, do resale timeshare prices tend to be seasonal at all?  Just wondering if it's a bad time of year...
> 
> I can handle $1,000 but probably not more than that per the thrifty husband!



I would say not so much for Wyndham, as a lot of owners pay the maintenance fees monthly.


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## Beefnot (Jul 24, 2012)

Watch out for deals like this when they come along...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/168K-Wyndha...50855910785?pt=Timeshares&hash=item231fb68581

Around a thousand bucks all in for 168k EOY contract with $24/mo MF.  Zephyr Cove MFs are dirt cheap.  Don't know if it has a developer subsidy.


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## Ridewithme38 (Jul 24, 2012)

pacodemountainside said:


> proselytizing



I learned a new word today!


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## Renny30 (Jul 24, 2012)

Ridewithme38 said:


> I learned a new word today!



Me too. I love these macho fights. So much more interesting than the women on the mommy forum. ***reaching for popcorn***


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## staceyeileen (Jul 24, 2012)

Beefnot said:


> Watch out for deals like this when they come along...
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/168K-Wyndha...50855910785?pt=Timeshares&hash=item231fb68581
> 
> Around a thousand bucks all in for 168k EOY contract with $24/mo MF.  Zephyr Cove MFs are dirt cheap.  Don't know if it has a developer subsidy.



Hmm, interesting.  I probably discounted that one before even reading the details because it is biennial.  I was under the impression those aren't really a good deal.  I stand corrected.


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## Renny30 (Jul 24, 2012)

staceyeileen said:


> Hmm, interesting.  I probably discounted that one before even reading the details because it is biennial.  I was under the impression those aren't really a good deal.  I stand corrected.



I just purchased an annual contract (or I'm purchasing) and then I plan to purchase an EOY deal from a Tugger if it's still available once my first transfer is completed. (I don't want to confuse Wyndham in any way). I was going to suggest two EOY deals to you. Maybe one even and one odd, but I thought I'd let someone more knowledgeable do it, which he's done. They seem to be easier to find and if they give you the number of points you need it all seems to work out.


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## scootr5 (Jul 24, 2012)

They were kind of "penalizing" EOY contracts the last couple of years with an increased program fee, but they changed that back this past year.


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## staceyeileen (Jul 24, 2012)

scootr5 said:


> They were kind of "penalizing" EOY contracts the last couple of years with an increased program fee, but they changed that back this past year.



How were they penalizing?


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## ronparise (Jul 24, 2012)

staceyeileen said:


> How were they penalizing?



They were essentially double billing for the program fee (the part of the fees that go to support the points program, web site, call center etc) 

The program fee is what Paco and RRLongwell are in a pissing contest about in the above posts and its pretty much not important to your decision. At 154000 points a year you will be paying the minimum ($98 a year) but its rolled into and paid with your maintenance fees. The ebay sellers sometimes make mistakes, but they all, I think include the program fee when they quote maintenance fees...In fact  ebay sellers probably dont know that the fee they are quoting includes two components; the resorts maintenance fee and the program fee....Dont worry about it we all pay it, and very few of us understand it


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## ausman (Jul 24, 2012)

staceyeileen said:


> Ron, do resale timeshare prices tend to be seasonal at all?  Just wondering if it's a bad time of year...



Not Ron, but prices do tend to be seasonal. The last few months of the year, probably beginning with Sept/Oct. prices tend to drop, possibly since the closing period involved may make the current year points unavailable.

As well there may well be the Xmas influence, have to spend money on other things. Really not sure why it happens, just looking for possible reasons.

The amount of listings also drop in the latter months, not sure I have figured the reason for that yet also.

Since Wyndham points are selling at so low prices now I wouldn't worry about seasonal changes and just buy on the oppunitunity presented.


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## justmeinflorida (Jul 25, 2012)

ronparise said:


> They were essentially double billing for the program fee (the part of the fees that go to support the points program, web site, call center etc)
> 
> The program fee is what Paco and RRLongwell are in a pissing contest about in the above posts and its pretty much not important to your decision. At 154000 points a year you will be paying the minimum *($98 a year)* but its rolled into and paid with your maintenance fees. *The ebay sellers sometimes make mistakes, but they all, I think include the program fee when they quote maintenance fees...In fact  ebay sellers probably dont know that the fee they are quoting includes two components; the resorts maintenance fee and the program fee*....Dont worry about it we all pay it, and very few of us understand it



Thanks for pointing this out Ron, I never considered that the Ebay seller/s might be doing this. No wonder I was having a problem finding anything with descent m/f  As always you're a big help.


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## ronparise (Jul 25, 2012)

justmeinflorida said:


> Thanks for pointing this out Ron, I never considered that the Ebay seller/s might be doing this. No wonder I was having a problem finding anything with descent m/f  As always you're a big help.



Dont mis understand me...I dont think the program fee is why you cant find a decent mf on ebay  for next to nothing.  Everything you see on ebay and other places should have  the program fee included in the mf they advertise. 

The fact is that there are not a lot of the under $5/1000 mf properties left, and the ones that are out there dont find there way to ebay as often as the higher mf properties, The ebay sellers are brokers, and they call their regular clients first when they have something special.   

I have a standing order with two ebay sellers for property at two resorts, If they get something that I want, they call me first. and of course if I buy it, it will never get to ebay for you to see..


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## staceyeileen (Jul 25, 2012)

So at the risk of high jacking this thread, let me ask a couple of questions about the program fees and EOY contracts...

How do I know if the fees quoted include the $96 minimum program fee, or if the contract in question is just one of several contracts in the seller's account and the quoted fee includes a much lower program fee?  If I ask the seller this question, will they have any idea what I'm talking about?

If I purchase one EOY contract for 154k points, as an example, I understand my account will get hit with the minimum $96/yr program fee.  If I then purchase a 2nd 154k EOY contract for the alternate year, am I charged any additional program fee?


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## wwoods1 (Jul 25, 2012)

I have all of the points that I need right now, but thought that I would make everyone aware of the potential for a great deal.  Last year, I got a converted fixed week at Wyndham Sea Gardens for $1 plus $599 closing.  The reason I purchased this one was that the maintenance fees on 231,000 points is less than $900 per month.  My total fees all-in is about $3.89/thousand.  I don't see any currently available, but when they do come up you get great bang for the buck.


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## pacodemountainside (Jul 25, 2012)

staceyeileen said:


> So at the risk of high jacking this thread, let me ask a couple of questions about the program fees and EOY contracts...
> 
> How do I know if the fees quoted include the $96 minimum program fee, or if the contract in question is just one of several contracts in the seller's account and the quoted fee includes a much lower program fee?  If I ask the seller this question, will they have any idea what I'm talking about?
> 
> If I purchase one EOY contract for 154k points, as an example, I understand my account will get hit with the minimum $96/yr program fee.  If I then purchase a 2nd 154k EOY contract for the alternate year, am I charged any additional program fee?



There are several approaches to making sure what  total MF is and if it includes $98 POA fee!. 

Have resort provide etoppel letter

Ask original owner to go to his account and attach to an e-mail

Go to HOA  fee  chart on Wyndham web site. It does not include POA fee!

Ask if anyone here owns  exactly what you are buying and what their  HOA fee  is.

  All of the points   in   same name  and  account are cummulated to calculate POA fee.  If you have 308 resale points and have not purchased PP  then it would be $.51/1,000 times 308K or $157.08. There is basic  minimum as   all Wyndham  points  ownership includes a  "free" RCI membership which costs VOI Trust about $40.


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## staceyeileen (Jul 25, 2012)

Thanks.  I have an estoppel letter but it doesn't show the breakdown.  Just the total dues inclusive of all fees.  The total seemed high for this particular resort, so I was wondering how to tell if it was due to the impact of the program fee.  I think I'm just going to have to assume the answer to that is yes.

Do you know the answer to my other question?
If I purchase one EOY contract for 154k points, as an example, I understand my account will get hit with the minimum $98/yr program fee. If I then purchase a 2nd 154k EOY contract for the alternate year, am I charged any additional program fee?


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## Beefnot (Jul 25, 2012)

staceyeileen said:


> Thanks.  I have an estoppel letter but it doesn't show the breakdown.  Just the total dues inclusive of all fees.  The total seemed high for this particular resort, so I was wondering how to tell if it was due to the impact of the program fee.  I think I'm just going to have to assume the answer to that is yes.
> 
> Do you know the answer to my other question?
> If I purchase one EOY contract for 154k points, as an example, I understand my account will get hit with the minimum $98/yr program fee. If I then purchase a 2nd 154k EOY contract for the alternate year, am I charged any additional program fee?



I believe the program fee is for each points contract, so you would pay it twice.  As for estoppel information, you should be able to contact the resort and validate a given contract's details with them.


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## rrlongwell (Jul 25, 2012)

Beefnot said:


> I believe the program fee is for each points contract, so you would pay it twice.  As for estoppel information, you should be able to contact the resort and validate a given contract's details with them.



Good idea.  I had contacted a E-Bay re-seller on one listed property and they provided an Estoppel letter on what appeared to by Wyndham letterhead.  I called Wyndham and they claimed it was not theirs.


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## justmeinflorida (Jul 25, 2012)

rrlongwell said:


> Good idea.  I had contacted a E-Bay re-seller on one listed property and they provided an Estoppel letter on what appeared to by Wyndham letterhead.  I called Wyndham and they claimed it was not theirs.



 

So if I were considering purchasing, could I ask the seller for their membership # so I can call Wyndham to confirm that all is well with the t/s?


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## rrlongwell (Jul 25, 2012)

justmeinflorida said:


> So if I were considering purchasing, could I ask the seller for their membership # so I can call Wyndham to confirm that all is well with the t/s?



You can try, I doubt Wyndham will give you the info without a limited power of attorney from the seller to do so.  In my case, all they would do was refute the copy of the estoppel letter was from them and advised they would send one to the seller for a fee that the seller would pay them.  In a different set of circumstances and different timeshares, they did permit a conference call between them and the owner of record and me to go over needed information.  It took awhile, but the transfers were eventually done.


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## staceyeileen (Jul 25, 2012)

Beefnot said:


> I believe the program fee is for each points contract, so you would pay it twice.



That would definitely be a big disadvantage to having 2 EOY contracts!  Is that what was meant by penalizing EOY contracts?


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## Beefnot (Jul 25, 2012)

With a non-Wyndham property, I had simply been able to contact the resort and explain that I am in the process of purchasing a unit and that I wanted to verify the unit details.  I figured Wyndham would not operate any differently, but perhaps not.


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## pacodemountainside (Jul 25, 2012)

This appears to be getting overly complicated.

Just take a couple minutes and go to   Wyndham HOA fee chart and get correct amount.  For 154K resale points add $98 and that is the number.

If different than ebay seller number chances are his number  is wrong!

Being pragmatic, if original owner  had a zillion Developer points with PP he would be paying $.53/1,000 POA fee. Take 154K times  this and you get $81.62. Subtract from $98.00 and looking at $16.38 which in overall scheme is De Minimus!


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## ronparise (Jul 25, 2012)

staceyeileen said:


> Thanks.  I have an estoppel letter but it doesn't show the breakdown.  Just the total dues inclusive of all fees.  The total seemed high for this particular resort, so I was wondering how to tell if it was due to the impact of the program fee.  I think I'm just going to have to assume the answer to that is yes.
> 
> Do you know the answer to my other question?
> If I purchase one EOY contract for 154k points, as an example, I understand my account will get hit with the minimum $98/yr program fee. If I then purchase a 2nd 154k EOY contract for the alternate year, am I charged any additional program fee?



Paco answered this question in his post

$98 minimum or 51 cents per 1000 points

Your first contract (154000 points) will be billed the minimum $98, Add another contract to bring your total points to, for example to 231000 points, and your program fee will be $118...(231x.51)


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## markb53 (Jul 25, 2012)

ronparise said:


> Paco answered this question in his post
> 
> $98 minimum or 51 cents per 1000 points
> 
> Your first contract (154000 points) will be billed the minimum $98, Add another contract to bring your total points to, for example to 231000 points, and your program fee will be $118...(231x.51)



Now I am confused. I thought I understood the EOY thing but maybe not. Here is my understanding, correct me if I am wrong:

Say I have a 154k EOY contract purchased resale. The program fee would be $98.00 per year. Then I bought another 77k EOY contract making it 231 EOY. The program fee would still be $98.00 per year because a 231k EOY contract is sort if like having a 115.5k annual contract. In order to get to the $118.00 program fee, I would either have to have EOY contracts totaling 462k or annual contracts totaling 231k. Do I understand it or am I all confused.


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## rrlongwell (Jul 25, 2012)

markb53 said:


> Now I am confused. I thought I understood the EOY thing but maybe not. Here is my understanding, correct me if I am wrong:
> 
> Say I have a 154k EOY contract purchased resale. The program fee would be $98.00 per year. Then I bought another 77k EOY contract making it 231 EOY. The program fee would still be $98.00 per year because a 231k EOY contract is sort if like having a 115.5k annual contract. In order to get to the $118.00 program fee, I would either have to have EOY contracts totaling 462k or annual contracts totaling 231k. Do I understand it or am I all confused.



I called Wyndham Finacial Services on this issue and they advise they do not know in the above cited example and would not answer the question.  Because this is a question the Wyndham experts will not answer and in light of the earlier problems that they had to back up from relating to how the EOY contracts are handled, I would assume the worst case situation.  That would be as you have hinted at, that the every other year contracts would be added together than divided by two to determine the applicable program fee rate.


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## ronparise (Jul 25, 2012)

markb53 said:


> Now I am confused. I thought I understood the EOY thing but maybe not. Here is my understanding, correct me if I am wrong:
> 
> Say I have a 154k EOY contract purchased resale. The program fee would be $98.00 per year. Then I bought another 77k EOY contract making it 231 EOY. The program fee would still be $98.00 per year because a 231k EOY contract is sort if like having a 115.5k annual contract. In order to get to the $118.00 program fee, I would either have to have EOY contracts totaling 462k or annual contracts totaling 231k. Do I understand it or am I all confused.




EOY contracts confuse me too, but I think you probably have it right, ...


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## csxjohn (Jul 26, 2012)

rrlongwell said:


> I called Wyndham Finacial Services on this issue and they advise they do not know in the above cited example and would not answer the question.  Because this is a question the Wyndham experts will not answer and in light of the earlier problems that they had to back up from relating to how the EOY contracts are handled, I would assume the worst case situation.  That would be as you have hinted at, that the every other year contracts would be added together than divided by two to determine the applicable program fee rate.



If Wyndham won't or can't answer specific questions about their fees, what hope do we have of learning how everything works?  The more I read the more I like my weeks TSs but I'm still trying to learn.


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## Ridewithme38 (Jul 26, 2012)

csxjohn said:


> If Wyndham won't or can't answer specific questions about their fees, what hope do we have of learning how everything works?  The more I read the more I like my weeks TSs but I'm still trying to learn.



Wyndham has some great deals on fixed weeks floating around on Ebay, i have one that i got for $1 that gets me about 54 TPU's a year and if you can find a Summer Red Fixed week at Kingsgate that hasn't been converted yet(60 TPUs), or even one that has to 238,000 points...They have great MF's for that amount of points

My two main searches lately have been looked for a Converted or unconverted Kingsgate 'prime' week and a Sevierville points unit

This one should be under $5 a 1,000 points, but i'm not sure about the reserve
http://www.ebay.com/itm/679-000-Ann...=Timeshares&hash=item564b8374e1#ht_3227wt_934


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## massvacationer (Jul 26, 2012)

markb53 said:


> Now I am confused. I thought I understood the EOY thing but maybe not. Here is my understanding, correct me if I am wrong:
> 
> Say I have a 154k EOY contract purchased resale. The program fee would be $98.00 per year. Then I bought another 77k EOY contract making it 231 EOY. The program fee would still be $98.00 per year because a 231k EOY contract is sort if like having a 115.5k annual contract. In order to get to the $118.00 program fee, I would either have to have EOY contracts totaling 462k or annual contracts totaling 231k. Do I understand it or am I all confused.




I own a couple of EOY contracts.  The way that Wyndham now handles them is that they calculate your program fee by counting-up the number of annual-equivalent points that you own.  So if you own a 154K EOY contract, that counts as 77k points, when calculating the Program Fee.

So, in your example, you own a 154k EOY and a 77K EOY, this will count as 115.5k points for Program fee purposes.  And, 115.5 times $0.51 = $58.91.   So, you will be charged  the minimum program fee of $98, because $58.91 is less than $98.

In summary: just take the number of annual-equivalent points that you own and multiply by $0.51  (for resale/non-PP owners).  This is what you will owe for the program fee, unless you haven't hit the minimum charge of $98.


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## markb53 (Jul 26, 2012)

I guess I DID understand it.


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## rrlongwell (Jul 26, 2012)

markb53 said:


> I guess I DID understand it.



I guess so, if anyone is close, give that man a cigar.


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## Renny30 (Jul 26, 2012)

markb53 said:


> I guess I DID understand it.



I knew you had it.


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## staceyeileen (Jul 26, 2012)

Wow, I think I understand it now. 

I like the idea of getting two EOY contracts at a low MF resort.  They seem to be readily available on ebay for reasonable prices.


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## mistalong (Dec 25, 2012)

I am now a National Harbor owner.  I need all MF fees to be this low.


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## lcml11 (Dec 25, 2012)

mistalong said:


> I am now a National Harbor owner.  I need all MF fees to be this low.



Look at Towers on the Grove and Smokey Mountain, among some others.  Smokey Mountain has a few left on E-Bay.


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## staceyeileen (Dec 25, 2012)

Smoky Mountain MF went from 3.97 to 4.19 for 2013.  Not terrible, just saying...


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