# ROFR metric / Ongoing ROFR Activity



## GregT

**** 5/1/16 - This link to the current, active ROFR database is added with the OP's permission:  ROFR Experiences (www.rofr.net) ****

All,

I have had a few PMs asking me to compute ROFR metrics for various offers, which I am happy to do, and also asking for the history of this _unofficial _metric.   The following thread is where we collected the data (such as it is).

I've taken the Points Value spreadsheet that TUGgers helped compile a couple of years back, and computed the ROFR metric for all weeks.

Accordingly, the attached is a hypothetical price of what should clear ROFR, if the metric can predict a ROFR exercise.   

Please note, this approach is imperfect and I would hate to see a TUGger increase their bid based solely on this -- please make an offer price of what the week is worth to you.   And please consult with a broker on what has been passing ROFR lately, they will have the most current information.

Anyone can compute their own ROFR metric:

1) Start with the DC Points that the underlying week is worth  (example: 3,000 DC Points)
2) Multiply #1 by $10 per point (representing how much Marriott can sell the related points for if they ROFR it and deposit to the Trust -- example:  3,000 * $10/point = $30,000)
3) Take your Offer Price ($5,000?) and divide it by the result of #2 (example: $5,000 / $30,000 = 16.6%) 
4) The resulting percentage will likely be between 5% - 35%.

My theory is that weeks where #4 is less than 23% have a greater probability of not passing ROFR than if #4 is greater than 23%.  It is based on the linked thread up above.

I welcome comments, corrections and more recent data.  Good luck!

Best,

Greg


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## samara64

Thanks Greg. Great post.


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## spaulino

Great info here.. Thanks Greg!


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## SueDonJ

Wonderful, very helpful!  But, math.


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## suzannesimon

I hope you're right.  I'm at 32% and hope it passes!  Thanks for the calculation.


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## billymach4

*Thanks GregT!*

This is a great starting point. Your mileage may vary.

I would add my 2 cents. Where a resort is in high demand you should probably add about 10% (This is conservative). If you can roll the dice and bid again after it has been ROFR'd then go with your gut and purchase at the asking price at the above metric.

There are other factors as well such as the season you are purchasing.


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## taterhed

Great post Greg.

Right on the numbers for the 2 units that got ROFR'd and the 1 unit that passed (for me).

Thanks for the hard work!


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## dioxide45

billymach4 said:


> This is a great starting point. Your mileage may vary.
> 
> I would add my 2 cents. Where a resort is in high demand you should probably add about 10% (This is conservative). If you can roll the dice and bid again after it has been ROFR'd then go with your gut and purchase at the asking price at the above metric.
> 
> There are other factors as well such as the season you are purchasing.



I think there are some seasons/resorts where MVCI has zero interest in acquiring weeks via ROFR. Though I would think if it is higher demand, or a higher season then it is also more points. Thus the 23% would result in a higher dollar figure.

I think what may be more of a factor is what MVCI needs in the trust to meet anticipated points reservations. The trust is pretty weak in HHI inventory. Perhaps they would be willing to pay more to bolster the trust in those properties. But I don't think they really factor that in. They are just looking to fund the sales machine, thus the metric of their overall margin in the end is the biggest concern. They have other ways that they can get inventory to meet demand.


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## Pens_Fan

I picked up a Aruba Surf Club gold Garden View for $4000.

That was only about 15.5%, but Marriott did not grab it.  Either they have enough Aruba in their inventory, or I just got lucky.


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## dioxide45

Pens_Fan said:


> I picked up a Aruba Surf Club gold Garden View for $4000.
> 
> That was only about 15.5%, but Marriott did not grab it.  Either they have enough Aruba in their inventory, or I just got lucky.



Or they can't sell Aruba as DC Trust Points. I think this may be why we see Aruba at a lower ROFR threshold.


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## SeaDoc

*Another method to address ROFR metrics might be...*

You may want to check what the availability is, and what the going prices that Marriott is selling their properties directly to the public are.  These weeks can never go into the destinations program (unless one buys an equal or greater number of points that the week is worth within one year of purchase), but they do have the ability to generate Marriott Reward Points and can be traded into II.  If one takes a percentage off of these prices you'll likely come to a general consensus as to what MVCI will buyback these properties or let them go through to the buyer... SeaDoc  - Here is the website:

https://www.marriottvacationclub.com/resales/buy-weeks.shtml?loc=DB59*1-43X1I2&cid=ppc-ggl-resales-e




GregT said:


> All,
> 
> I have had a few PMs asking me to compute ROFR metrics for various offers, which I am happy to do, and also asking for the history of this _unofficial _metric.   The following thread is where we collected the data (such as it is).
> 
> I've taken the Points Value spreadsheet that TUGgers helped compile a couple of years back, and computed the ROFR metric for all weeks.
> 
> Accordingly, the attached is a hypothetical price of what should clear ROFR, if the metric can predict a ROFR exercise.
> 
> Please note, this approach is imperfect and I would hate to see a TUGger increase their bid based solely on this -- please make an offer price of what the week is worth to you.   And please consult with a broker on what has been passing ROFR lately, they will have the most current information.
> 
> Anyone can compute their own ROFR metric:
> 
> 1) Start with the DC Points that the underlying week is worth  (example: 3,000 DC Points)
> 2) Multiply #1 by $10 per point (representing how much Marriott can sell the related points for if they ROFR it and deposit to the Trust -- example:  3,000 * $10/point = $30,000)
> 3) Take your Offer Price ($5,000?) and divide it by the result of #2 (example: $5,000 / $30,000 = 16.6%)
> 4) The resulting percentage will likely be between 5% - 35%.
> 
> My theory is that weeks where #4 is less than 23% have a greater probability of not passing ROFR than if #4 is greater than 23%.  It is based on the linked thread up above.
> 
> I welcome comments, corrections and more recent data.  Good luck!
> 
> Best,
> 
> Greg


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## GregT

Cal357 said:


> For anyone interested, Marriott just exercised their ROFR on a 2BR lockout at Grand Chateau for $6000.




Copied from another thread -- I know Dioxide is working on bringing the ROFR database back up, but until then, perhaps we can post our ROFR results here.

The comment noted above is consistent with the ROFR metric -- and had risk of being ROFR'd as their purchase was below the 23% computation

[Grande Chateau is worth 3,275 points, or $32,750 in approximated Trust Points value.   23% of $32,750 is $7,500, therefore anything below $7,500 is at great risk of not passing ROFR.  Contracts above $7,500 are more likely to pass].

At least, this is the theory.

Until we have a new database, please feel free to post ROFR results here (and please show your ROFR metric, available from the earlier linked file).

Best,

Greg


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## jrpeterson5

Mine is about 8 weeks old, but I didn't know where to throw it out there so this is perfect. Thanks Greg T.  

Marriott Ocean Watch, Gold, Garden View.  $4000.  ROFR waived after 28 days. 

This puts me at about 17.7%. (4000/22,500).  I noticed however, that on the ROFR waiver it was listed at $4500 (included closing costs) which would put me at 20%.  Hope I calculated this correctly. 

Thanks all.  Great info here always.


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## SueDonJ

It seems like all of a sudden there are ROFR-related posts scattered all over the Marriott forum.  You all might be following along just fine but I'm confused , so I like Greg's idea to use this for ROFR activity.  Despite not wanting to clog up the forum with stickies it's probably a good thing to do at least until Dioxide45 gets his off-TUG database functioning again.  As a sticky thread it can be re-titled "ROFR Metric / Ongoing ROFR Activity."

We can move some of the recent ROFR posts to this thread but I have limited time right now to search them out.  If you come across any please feel free to use the "Report Post" function with a note - "move to Marriott ROFR sticky thread, please" - and any of the mods/admin can do it when we see the reports.  (Note if any dated prior to Greg's first post in this thread are moved then the board functions will cause some confusion so we probably should only move posts dated after 5/5/15.) 

Any objections/suggestions??  I'll leave this here for a couple hours just in case.  Thanks!


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## GregT

SueDonJ said:


> It seems like all of a sudden there are ROFR-related posts scattered all over the Marriott forum.  You all might be following along just fine but I'm confused , so I like Greg's idea to use this for ROFR activity.  Despite not wanting to clog up the forum with stickies it's probably a good thing to do at least until Dioxide45 gets his off-TUG database functioning again.  As a sticky thread it can be re-titled "ROFR Metric / Ongoing ROFR Activity."
> 
> We can move some of the recent ROFR posts to this thread but I have limited time right now to search them out.  If you come across any please feel free to use the "Report Post" function with a note - "move to Marriott ROFR sticky thread, please" - and any of the mods/admin can do it when we see the reports.  (Note if any dated prior to Greg's first post in this thread are moved then the board functions will cause some confusion so we probably should only move posts dated after 5/5/15.)
> 
> Any objections/suggestions??  I'll leave this here for a couple hours just in case.  Thanks!



Sue, thank you, I think this makes sense.  I can't change the title of the thread because too much time has passed, can you make the change for me?

Thanks!

Greg


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## GregT

Here are some recent ROFR reports from other threads (Edited to reduce to just price, season and result, and computed ROFR metric in red):



samara64 said:


> They just exercised on a Shadow ridge plat annual for $4100.   13.33% ROFR Metric
> 
> And on 2 EEY and EOY white DSII for $1000 each. 9.3% ROFR Metric






samara64 said:


> 2 Marriott Grande Vista 3BR Plat weeks. One Odd and One Even. Each sold for $3300. One got exercised and the other waved. 17.72% ROFR Metric





Andy R said:


> $5500 offer for the 2BR Platinum at MGV. [GT edit: FROR was exercised – this did not pass] 19.82% ROFR Metric





Seaport104 said:


> Bought a 2nd MGV platinum and was informed today that Marriott exercised at 6,000 21.62% ROFR Metric





disneymom1 said:


> We just purchased Surfwatch platinum 2 bedroom (garden view) and passed ROFR in February for $8000 plus 2015 maintenance fees.   17.2% ROFR Metric





taterhed said:


> Marriott Waiohai 2br, annual, plat.:  failed ROFR at $9500 22.49% ROFR Metric if IV, otherwise 18.72% if OV





taterhed said:


> Marriott Grande Vista 3br annual plat:  just passed ROFR @ $8500 22.82% ROFR Metric





samara64 said:


> 2BR MGV Gold EOY ODD got exercised this morning for $1500. I don't have the points for a MGV Gold and can't compute





sb2313 said:


> they grabbed the other half from me as an eoy even gold 2 bed was taken at $1500 today.I don't have the points for a MGV Gold and can't compute





Pens_Fan said:


> Aruba Surf Club gold Garden View just passed ROFR at $4000.  I don't believe they are ROFRing Aruba because they can't put it in the Trust





Cal357 said:


> Marriott just exercised their ROFR on a 2BR lockout at Grand Chateau for $6000.18.32% ROFR Metric





media4u2 said:


> I eventually made the deal [Harbour Lake] at $1850 plus about $1000 for closing costs, etc.  Marriott exercised ROFR (Right of First Refusal) 7.25% ROFR Metric if Platinum
> 
> I made a deal to purchase another Harbour Lake unit for $3000.  Again, Marriott exercised ROFR.11.76% ROFR Metric if Platinum
> 
> My next venture was to try to get a Grande Vista unit for $4500.  Again, ROFR took the property from me.16.22% ROFR Metric
> 
> Finally, I offered $5200 for a Platinum Grande Vista unit w/ Florida Club membership attached.....  Sure enough, Marriott exercised ROFR.18.74% ROFR Metric





jrpeterson5 said:


> Marriott Ocean Watch, Gold, Garden View. $4,000. ROFR waived after 28 days. I noticed however, that on the ROFR waiver it was listed at $4500 (included closing costs) which would put me at 20%.


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## TheTimeTraveler

Greg;  Nice posting, thanks!




.


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## camachinist

I submitted two ROFR waiver requests the same day MVCI apparently took their system down, July 16, and they came back anyway as waived within a day:

Newport Coast Villas -

NCV Platinum - 9K (Marriott is selling this at 13,500)

NCV Gold - 5K (No sale data that I'm aware of)


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## SueDonJ

camachinist said:


> I submitted two ROFR waiver requests the same day MVCI apparently took their system down, July 16, and they came back anyway as waived within a day:
> 
> Newport Coast Villas -
> 
> NCV Platinum - 9K (Marriott is selling this at 13,500)
> 
> NCV Gold - 5K (No sale data that I'm aware of)



FYI Marriott rofr delay July 15-27

(Seems like a good place to drop the link re Marriott updating their ROFR system.)


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## camachinist

Yes, I had read that here and was surprised MVCI processsed the waivers. They also made a mistake and sent a duplicate instead of one on each and corrected it within a couple hours of being notified. The escrow agent also received part of the estoppel information as well. I guess it wasn't a total shutdown.


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## Southerngirl528

We just got ROFR waived from Marriott on a Napili 2bdrm in exactly 7 days! Yay!


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## heckp

July 30 MKO 2BR LO OV EOYO $5200 *DID NOT* PASS ROFR

August 10 MKO 2BR LO OV EOYO $6000 *PASSED* ROFR


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## taffy19

Southerngirl528 said:


> We just got ROFR waived from Marriott on a Napili 2bdrm in exactly 7 days! Yay!


Congratulations to you as you wanted this and your life will be a lot more simple from now on without all the stress dealing with your stay at the MM1 in Maui.  

What week did you buy?


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## Southerngirl528

Emmy, you are such a dear to remember my big challenges with booking my weeks for February on Maui! Thank you.   I wish I could say we did buy a fixed week this round, but we bought 1 week EOYE to go with our EOYO 2 weeks. We bought a float week. The prices for the weeks we would need for a fixed week were just too high right now for what we were willing to pay at this time. 

But I am super excited that we will now get to go to Maui every year rather than EOY!!! Yippee!!! And I have certainly not ruled out that elusive fixed week 2 bdrm Annual oceanfront in either Napili or Lahaina tower......


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## GregT

All,

Marriott exercised their Right of First Refusal for the sale of my Trust Points.  I had sold them for $4.50 per point, and Marriott exercised the ROFR within 4 days of receiving the request.  They've indicated they will take up to 90 days to close the transaction.

So.....for those of you looking to buy points, you need to offer more than $4.50 per point.

Best,

Greg


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## bazzap

GregT said:


> All,
> 
> Marriott exercised their Right of First Refusal for the sale of my Trust Points.  I had sold them for $4.50 per point, and Marriott exercised the ROFR within 4 days of receiving the request.  They've indicated they will take up to 90 days to close the transaction.
> 
> So.....for those of you looking to buy points, you need to offer more than $4.50 per point.
> 
> Best,
> 
> Greg


This sure tells a story about MVC's intent Greg.
Straight back on sale at $12.66, or rather the new increased price (whatever that may be)


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## tmoscola

*Marriott ROFR*

Has Marriott been exercising their ROFR recently?


Thanks Sue! I knew there was a post on here in the past but couldn't find it


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## GregT

tmoscola said:


> Has Marriott been exercising their ROFR recently?
> 
> 
> Thanks Sue! I knew there was a post on here in the past but couldn't find it



Yes, they have been very active.  If you read some of the previous posts, you will see that it is becoming very common to have ROFR exercised.

Best,

Greg


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## scpoidog

*Refuse the ROFR?*



GregT said:


> Yes, they have been very active.  If you read some of the previous posts, you will see that it is becoming very common to have ROFR exercised.
> 
> Best,
> 
> Greg


Greg, 

I know as a seller is shouldn't matter because you get the price that you want, but do you have the option of pulling out of the deal with Marriott in order to: 

1.  Get more money out of the turned down buyer 
2.  Keep the points or week out of Marriott's hands. 

Just wondering what options you have as a seller.  Thanks.


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## BOC

*Marriott ROFR Mountainside*

Just notified that Marriott exercised the ROFR on a Mountainside Gold (Summer) week at $5,000.  The broker said that it is the first one they had seen and must be a sign that they need the weeks.


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## Fasttr

BOC said:


> Just notified that Marriott exercised the ROFR on a Mountainside Gold (Summer) week at $5,000.  The broker said that it is the first one they had seen and must be a sign that they need the weeks.



That would be a 20% ratio using GregT's metric, which indicates more likelihood of MVC exercising ROFR.


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## l0410z

Just won a Grand Chateau EOY Odd on eBay for 1725, seller pays the fees.  no way this passes ROFR.  This is my first attempt on EBay....maybe my last.  Looking for a trader but it is a waste of time winning low.


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## Kwigib0

*Marriott ROFR*

Hi Everyone,
I just wanted to share that I recently purchased a EOYE 2br lockoff in the Grand Chateau through TUG for $2000 + closing.
After reading the posts in this thread and following the matrix, it didn't seem likely for Marriott to waive the ROFR. But to my pleasant surprise, they issued the waiver in 2 or 3 days. 
Now just waiting for the completion of closing, and to plan a holiday.:whoopie:


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## l0410z

Kwigib0 said:


> Hi Everyone,
> I just wanted to share that I recently purchased a EOYE 2br lockoff in the Grand Chateau through TUG for $2000 + closing.
> After reading the posts in this thread and following the matrix, it didn't seem likely for Marriott to waive the ROFR. But to my pleasant surprise, they issued the waiver in 2 or 3 days.
> Now just waiting for the completion of closing, and to plan a holiday.:whoopie:



Interesting... for 1000 more than my auction win, I have a good chance of getting it.   I might discuss increasing the price.


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## Kwigib0

l0410z said:


> Interesting... for 1000 more than my auction win, I have a good chance of getting it.   I might discuss increasing the price.




Because of the chance of ROFR. I did not want to pay for the application cause if Marroitt had exercised I would have been out of pocket and nothing to show for it. So the seller pre paid $50 to the closing company and if ROFR was waived, I agreed to pay it back to them.
Therefore the ROFR was submitted with the purchase price of $2050 only as far as I can tell... So it's only $300 more than you won the auction for...



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## l0410z

The closing fees at the Chateau is 750.  The selling fees are contained within the winning bid price so my 1750 is 1000 for seller, the rest for closing.  

Did your 2000 include the closing fees (waiver fee aside).


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## Kwigib0

l0410z said:


> The closing fees at the Chateau is 750.  The selling fees are contained within the winning bid price so my 1750 is 1000 for seller, the rest for closing.
> 
> Did your 2000 include the closing fees (waiver fee aside).



Based on info I have learned on the forums here, the Closing fees are mostly whatever the closing company choose to charge for them, rather than based on the property. There are certain fees associated to the property, for example, fee for ROFR, and transfer of ownership through Marriott, however these fees are not that expensive. The rest is for the closing company to prepare docs, postage, county recording fees and fee for escrow(if used) etc. 
Ebay sales tend to come with a requirement to use their closing company, who tend to be a bit more expensive than others.
In saying all that, my purchase was $2000 plus closing, but the Waiver document that I received only had the purchase price on it plus $50 that I arranged to pay back to the seller for ROFR. 
From what I have read, most closing companies will include the closing costs in the submission for ROFR, so there is a good chance that yours will be submitted at $1725, but I recommend discussing this with the closing company to be sure you have the best chance.

Best of luck and I hope it passes for you.


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## l0410z

*Passed ROFR Grand Chateau  EOY Odd.. LT 10%*

Waiver was received today.  2 Bedroom EOY Odd for $1725.  The seller pays all closing costs.      Using 3350 points for a 2 BR @ 12.66 per point divided by 2 for EYO puts this at 21,206.  This is  puts the price at below 10%.   Never thought it would pass.  I was going to raise my price but the person I bought this from on ebay told me he had a 90% confidence level it would pass as is.    

Friday, I called the resale department and questioned them on how long it actually takes for ROFR action  and confirmed that the Chateau ROFR needs to be done in 15 days.   I gave them no personal info since I was just trying to get a gauge.   They put me hold and when they came back, they confirmed that the Chateau is in fact 15 days for ROFR and all request for waivers submitted as of Monday (10/12) have been responded too.  

Is there something going on at the resort that I am unaware of?


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## samara64

I have seen Grand Chateau pass at low prices before but not sure why. I also do not see Marriott resales offering them on the Marriott website as one of the choices.


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## l0410z

samara64 said:


> I have seen Grand Chateau pass at low prices before but not sure why. I also do not see Marriott resales offering them on the Marriott website as one of the choices.



I called the Marriott Resale department to find out why they do not resell the Chateau. Turns out that Marriott is not licensed to resell timeshares in Nevada.  They can only sell new as the developer or purchase to add into the trust for DC point usage. 

My guess is Marriott has enough inventory to satisfy  DC point usage.  If this is the case, why add more by executing  ROFR often.   There has to be some reason this passed with a ratio 9 percent.


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## GregT

l0410z said:


> I called the Marriott Resale department to find out why they do not resell the Chateau. Turns out that Marriott is not licensed to resell timeshares in Nevada.  They can only sell new as the developer or purchase to add into the trust for DC point usage.
> 
> My guess is Marriott has enough inventory to satisfy  DC point usage.  If this is the case, why add more by executing  ROFR often.   There has to be some reason this passed with a ratio 9 percent.



That's interesting -- there is a lot of Grand Chateau in the Trust -- it currently constitutes 15% of the entire Trust (51M points out of 331M total).  So perhaps they are intentionally limiting adding more from ROFR.

Might be an opportunity to buy a trading property at a lower price?  

Best,

Greg


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## taterhed

Shhhhh... Don't tell, they'll hear you.  


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## nygiants11991

Does Marriott take into consideration the cost of closing cost fees when they consider ROFR? I ask because if the seller wants the buyer to pay closing, it may be a good idea to increase the sale price by the closing costs and request the seller to pay the closing cost. The seller would net the sale price and the buyer may have a better chance of the sale passing.


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## taterhed

nygiants11991 said:


> Does Marriott take into consideration the cost of closing cost fees when they consider ROFR? I ask because if the seller wants the buyer to pay closing, it may be a good idea to increase the sale price by the closing costs and request the seller to pay the closing cost. The seller would net the sale price and the buyer may have a better chance of the sale passing.



When ROFR is executed by the Developer (Marriott in this case) they agree to step in for the buyer and execute the contract as specified.  This includes all the terms agreed upon between the seller and (original) buyer.  Any fees or stipulations should be paid as specified.  BUT....

The terms of the contract must be legal, reasonable and have tangible value: never construct/sign a contract you have no intention of fully executing (IMHO). Many in this forum have opined that you could 'make up' any terms you wish in the contract language in an effort to defeat ROFR or increase the buyer's net or ??? (cheat Marriott).  ROFR is not a concept that is solely limited to timeshares. In other venues, courts have ruled that ambiguous terms can be assigned a specific value (1 cow= XXX dollars) and that impossible constructs (closing will occur in 1 day) are not to be invoked to end-run the law.  Additionally, any terms specified in the contract could potentially be enforced by interested parties (be careful what you agree to).

In summary:  It makes sense to include any and all costs associated in the deal into the contract so that if M. elects to exercise ROFR, all parties will receive the money they expect (think closing costs, commissions to brokers etc...) and to increase the likelihood that the intended buyer will get the property, not mother Marriott.  Of course, this is all small potatoes.  If the corporation wants the property for the trust or ??? they will simply execute ROFR.  $1000 is nothing to a large corporation that could simply flip the unit for 5x times the price/points/rental etc...

cheers (I am not a lawyer and my advice is worth every penny you pay; zero )


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## l0410z

GregT said:


> That's interesting -- there is a lot of Grand Chateau in the Trust -- it currently constitutes 15% of the entire Trust (51M points out of 331M total).  So perhaps they are intentionally limiting adding more from ROFR.
> 
> Might be an opportunity to buy a trading property at a lower price?
> 
> Best,
> 
> Greg



A tug member posted earlier that they got an EOY for 2000 plus closing cost.  I got it for 1725 including all closing costs and fees.  I agree, I think there is a window right now for good deals for this property.  Though my 24 and 27 year old sons think differently, I purchased this as a trader (studio and 1 br). I am thinking of getting a second EOY.


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## Kwigib0

l0410z said:


> Waiver was received today.  2 Bedroom EOY Odd for $1725.  The seller pays all closing costs.      Using 3350 points for a 2 BR @ 12.66 per point divided by 2 for EYO puts this at 21,206.  This is  puts the price at below 10%.   Never thought it would pass.  I was going to raise my price but the person I bought this from on ebay told me he had a 90% confidence level it would pass as is.
> 
> Friday, I called the resale department and questioned them on how long it actually takes for ROFR action  and confirmed that the Chateau ROFR needs to be done in 15 days.   I gave them no personal info since I was just trying to get a gauge.   They put me hold and when they came back, they confirmed that the Chateau is in fact 15 days for ROFR and all request for waivers submitted as of Monday (10/12) have been responded too.
> 
> Is there something going on at the resort that I am unaware of?




Congrats on passing ROFR.... I thought mine was good value but you bettered me.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## curbysplace

l0410z said:


> My guess is Marriott has enough inventory to satisfy  DC point usage.  If this is the case, why add more by executing  ROFR often.   There has to be some reason this passed with a ratio 9 percent.



The new third tower villas are all in the Trust. When (if) they build the fourth tower those villas will all be in the Trust too.  As Greg said (1) Marriott has plenty of Grand Chateau Trust inventory and that (2) this may be a great time to pick up platinum weeks buying relatively inexpensive Grand Chateau weeks that in all likelihood will pass ROFR.


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## NTP66

Just to add a data point here, Marriott just waived their ROFR on my 2BR OV EOEY unit at MOC (MMO), which I paid $8300 for.


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## Southerngirl528

NTP66 said:


> Just to add a data point here, Marriott just waived their ROFR on my 2BR OV EOEY unit at MOC (MMO), which I paid $8300 for.



Wow, NTP66! That's awesome! Congratulations!! That sounds like a pretty good deal, yes?  And MMO is the original portion of Maui Ocean Club? (you'd think I would know since I have 3 weeks, but all in Napili.  )

It seems the prices at this resort for resales have gone up a LOT since the beginning of the year. We would still love to acquire a fixed week in one of the new towers, but it would need to be during the first 8 weeks of the year and those prices are insane right now! 

Congrats again, Ntp66!


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## NTP66

Southerngirl528 said:


> Wow, NTP66! That's awesome! Congratulations!! That sounds like a pretty good deal, yes?  And MMO is the original portion of Maui Ocean Club? (you'd think I would know since I have 3 weeks, but all in Napili.  )
> 
> It seems the prices at this resort for resales have gone up a LOT since the beginning of the year. We would still love to acquire a fixed week in one of the new towers, but it would need to be during the first 8 weeks of the year and those prices are insane right now!
> 
> Congrats again, Ntp66!



Thanks, and yes, this is all in the original towers. I've been tracking prices for nearly 3 years now (solely on Redweek), and prices are actually pretty low to me. Only once did I see a 2BR OV unit go for less than what I just paid, and there's even a 1BR OV listed for $3500, which means it can likely be had for $3k (whether that'd pass ROFR is another story, though my 1BR OV did pass at $4k).

Prices for the new towers are still insane, though. My wife gave me the death glare when I broached the topic of considering one in the Napili Tower, so that was the end of that, lol.


----------



## Southerngirl528

NTP66 said:


> Thanks, and yes, this is all in the original towers. I've been tracking prices for nearly 3 years now (solely on Redweek), and prices are actually pretty low to me. Only once did I see a 2BR OV unit go for less than what I just paid, and there's even a 1BR OV listed for $3500, which means it can likely be had for $3k (whether that'd pass ROFR is another story, though my 1BR OV did pass at $4k).
> 
> Prices for the new towers are still insane, though. My wife gave me the death glare when I broached the topic of considering one in the Napili Tower, so that was the end of that, lol.



"Death glare"! :hysterical: I can only imagine! 

We really went back and forth on what we wanted to do as we own 2 wks EOYO in a 2 bdrm Oceanfront Napili so we love, love, LOVE our view. DH and I had to ask if we wanted view in the older towers or the full kitchens, w/d, etc., with no view in the new towers because we just weren't going to pay the current going rates for OF in Napili right now. I really do love the views from many of the rooms in the older towers though. It will be interesting to see what we think of our decision when we have our first stay in the new acquisition in a few months….


----------



## frank808

Just had a grand vista eoy gold rofr at $400.  Also the other week a manor club annual gold for $200 got rofr.  I thought marriott would let these go but it seems like they are buying all for conversion to trust points. This makes sense in  their asset lite strategy.


----------



## nygiants11991

Marriott exercised their ROFR on a Maui Ocean Club 2 bedroom 3 bath every odd year ocean front unit for $5000


----------



## macperry

*KoOlina 3bedroom, annual platinum*

Just submitted ROFR for 3-bedroom, platinum, annual at $25K. We'll see


----------



## GregT

macperry said:


> Just submitted ROFR for 3-bedroom, platinum, annual at $25K. We'll see



That will pass -- congrats and enjoy Ko Olina, it's a great property!!!

Best,

Greg


----------



## macperry

I'm the seller


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## GregT

macperry said:


> I'm the seller
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk



Got it -- well someone else will love Ko Olina then 

Best,

Greg


----------



## Jodi0415

*Shadow Ridge passed ROFR in less than a week!!*

2 bedroom lockoff EOY gold season for $297.00 passed in 3 days!! I'm speechless!!


----------



## klpca

Jodi0415 said:


> 2 bedroom lockoff EOY gold season for $297.00 passed in 3 days!! I'm speechless!!



Good to hear. Thanks for posting!


----------



## Quadmaniac

macperry said:


> Just submitted ROFR for 3-bedroom, platinum, annual at $25K. We'll see



Was yours floating or a fixed week ?


----------



## Quadmaniac

*ROFR is very random*

I just wanted to mention that I am still seeing very random exercising of ROFR. 

2 br GV Plat $2835 Taken
2 br WR Plat $2135 Taken

2 br WR Plat $1315 Passed
2 br WR Plat Odd $1 Passed
2 br HL Plat Odd $759 Passed

These were all recent eBay purchases in the last 3 months. It sounds silly, but the high ones seem to be taken and the cheaper priced ones are passing for the same resort.


----------



## rudyr

Jodi0415 said:


> [Shadow Ridge] 2 bedroom lockoff EOY gold season for $297.00 passed in 3 days!! I'm speechless!!


Thanks for posting this, I have one I am trying to purchase for $1,800, annual/gold w/ Thanksgiving reserved for '16. Seller said he thinks it's a coin flip if Marriott with take it.

Also, your price seems amazingly low, congrats. Seems way below market.


----------



## dioxide45

I think Marriott takes more in to consideration than just price. Perhaps first usage and even who is responsible for the next MF. Perhaps if an EOY odd week comes up that doesn't have first usage until 2017, they may not be interested since they can't start to sell those points yet.


----------



## dioxide45

Jodi0415 said:


> 2 bedroom lockoff EOY gold season for $297.00 passed in 3 days!! I'm speechless!!


Congratulations! Enjoy the week.


----------



## Jodi0415

So weird! ours is an EOY even. Just passed. I pretty much had no hope. I'm blown away!


----------



## stive1

Bought an annual GV platinum lock off for $3900 last month and it passed ROF


----------



## rudyr

From what I was told, they "do the math". So, whether buyer or seller picks up the closing, transfer and MFs gets evaluated to figure out what the actual price is being paid for the title.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Quadmaniac

rudyr said:


> From what I was told, they "do the math". So, whether buyer or seller picks up the closing, transfer and MFs gets evaluated to figure out what the actual price is being paid for the title.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



If that was the case they should have taken all the other units I bought for less.


----------



## BJRSanDiego

Jodi0415 said:


> So weird! ours is an EOY even. Just passed. I pretty much had no hope. I'm blown away!



Thanks for posting.  I've been ROFR'd a few times in Palm Desert at higher amounts.  I have noticed a bunch of ebay auctions selling for lower prices recently and was wondering if they would pass or not.


----------



## kdague

*Looking for more ROFR info*

I am new to TUG and am looking for more ROFR information, like contracts that have passed or taken by location.  Is there another thread?


----------



## NTP66

kdague said:


> I am new to TUG and am looking for more ROFR information, like contracts that have passed or taken by location.  Is there another thread?



There are a number of threads where people mention their ROFR activity, but your best bet is this spreadsheet (which is a little old, but still has some good data in it): https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1crfiWNIn8oahjx98fwzQ1drlFOId142w3XDp04C8tSU/edit?usp=sharing


----------



## taterhed

kdague said:


> I am new to TUG and am looking for more ROFR information, like contracts that have passed or taken by location. Is there another thread?


 
What are you looking at?  Might get more pointed and recent responses.

cheers.


----------



## kdague

I am looking for information on what has recently passed ROFR.  Trying to get an idea od what prices I should expect to pay, and pass, ROFR.


----------



## kdague

Thanks!  Where can I find this spreadsheet?


----------



## dioxide45

kdague said:


> Thanks!  Where can I find this spreadsheet?



The link is in post #71.


----------



## kdague

*Recent ROFR activity*



NTP66 said:


> There are a number of threads where people mention their ROFR activity, but your best bet is this spreadsheet (which is a little old, but still has some good data in it): https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1crfiWNIn8oahjx98fwzQ1drlFOId142w3XDp04C8tSU/edit?usp=sharing




Thanks for the spreadsheet.  Is there any information that a little more recent?
Thank you


----------



## NTP66

Not that I'm aware of. Your only other option would be searching for the location you're looking for along with 'ROFR'.


----------



## taterhed

taterhed said:


> What are you looking at? Might get more pointed and recent responses.
> 
> cheers.


 


kdague said:


> Thanks for the spreadsheet. Is there any information that a little more recent?
> Thank you


 
Not to be too pointed, but: You might get some more detailed and recent information if you posted, here in the forum, what resort/units you're looking at. You can't say "I want to buy" because that will violate the rules.

Example: 'Any ROFR information on Marriot Grande Vista 2br EOY/EY?'
you might get some more responses.

Also, GregT has a rough guess for Marriott ROFR values predicted by points. If you'll post your Q's he might run the check for you....and you could follow his example from there.

Cheers.


----------



## BigKahuna

Maui Ocean Club 2 bedroom 3 bath ocean view:

Getting ready to submit for ROFR  review at 16k....will advise.

BigKahuna


----------



## GregT

BigKahuna said:


> Maui Ocean Club 2 bedroom 3 bath ocean view:
> 
> Getting ready to submit for ROFR  review at 16k....will advise.
> 
> BigKahuna



Good luck -- that's a 23.88% ROFR metric -- will be curious to see if it passes, and I hope it does!  Personally, I think it will be hard to get MOC's through ROFR one day in the future, but I don't think that's today.

Best,

Greg


----------



## beachgoers

How is that ROFR metric calculated?   Looking to buy one from a friend.   Grande Ocean Hilton Head.

We don't want the deal to fall apart and have marriott take it.    

I am new to this board so excuse me if this has all been answered before.


----------



## jlee2070

Marriott just excercised on a Waiohai IV Unit Odd for $4900.


----------



## rudyr

Marriott didn't care for an annual DVII-Blue week. Picked it up for $500 just to experiment as a trader.


----------



## marisajo

Transfer complete today with Marriott on 2 units I snagged in November.  I was shocked that they did not exercise ROFR on either!

Grande Vista 3BR Lockoff Gold EOY : $940
Surfwatch Oceanview 3BR Gold Annual: $1025

I've been wanting to pick up a 3BR for several years now, but the last one I tried had ROFR exercised.  Not sure I really needed both units, but I couldn't pass up a great deal.


----------



## taterhed

marisajo said:


> Transfer complete today with Marriott on 2 units I snagged in November. I was shocked that they did not exercise ROFR on either!
> 
> Grande Vista 3BR Lockoff Gold EOY : $940
> Surfwatch Oceanview 3BR Gold Annual: $1025
> 
> I've been wanting to pick up a 3BR for several years now, but the last one I tried had ROFR exercised. Not sure I really needed both units, but I couldn't pass up a great deal.


 

WOW!

Great job!


----------



## Jeffrey

*Grande Chateau Platinum 3BR EOYE passed ROFR for $2,499*

I didn't actually expect it to pass ROFR, but it did on day 4 ! 

The unit had a DC point value of 4625.  That's only $0.54/point, ... assuming it will be eligible for DC enrollment one day in the distant future. 

In the meantime we'll have plenty of 1BR, 2BR and 3BR weeks to enjoy.


----------



## dioxide45

Jeffrey said:


> I didn't actually expect it to pass ROFR, but it did on day 4 !
> 
> The unit had a DC point value of 4625.  That's only $0.54/point, ... assuming it will be eligible for DC enrollment one day in the distant future.
> 
> In the meantime we'll have plenty of 1BR, 2BR and 3BR weeks to enjoy.



Grand Chateau has been discussed and seems to be unique. Marriott just built tower three there and has a lot of inventory in the trust. They can't resell weeks there since they are not licensed for resales in Nevada. I think the fact that they have an entire tower in the trust is leading them to pass on ROFR for Grand Chateau.


----------



## BigKahuna

Maui Ocean Club 2 bedroom 3 bath ocean view ey ROFR update 

Marriott waived today at 16,500.00.  Woohoo!

BK


----------



## NTP66

BigKahuna said:


> Maui Ocean Club 2 bedroom 3 bath ocean view ey ROFR update
> 
> Marriott waived today at 16,500.00.  Woohoo!
> 
> BK



Very nice. That's almost exactly double what I paid for my 2BR/3BA EOYE OV, so I'm not surprised that it passed.


----------



## chkvtzn

*Ocean Pointe ROFR*

Could someone please help me with an opinion on the ROFR prices for Ocean pointe.

I am interested in 2BR platinum Ocean view or a 3BR Platinum Ocean front.

I recently saw that a 2BR ocean view on Ebay went for just over $6K....wondering if Marriott snagged it.

Thanks


----------



## jread

Submitting today for Maui Ocean Club 2 bedroom 3 bath EOYE Ocean Front at $9,500.


----------



## jlee2070

jlee2070 said:


> Marriott just excercised on a Waiohai IV Unit Odd for $4900.



Marriott exercised on another Waiohai IV Unit Odd for $5300...


----------



## taterhed

Ouch

sent from my cell phone...


----------



## BigKahuna

Jread, 
please advise on how you do, good luck!
BK


----------



## jread

Submitting Ko Olina 2 bed EOYE Ocean View for $4,000 this week.


----------



## BigKahuna

Good luck, I am closing next week on my week at MOC and negotiating another week as well right now. I spoke with our escrow person today and she said she is swamped with timeshare sales. Not sure why but business is good for her now.
BK


----------



## jread

BigKahuna said:


> Good luck, I am closing next week on my week at MOC and negotiating another week as well right now. I spoke with our escrow person today and she said she is swamped with timeshare sales. Not sure why but business is good for her now.
> BK



Congrats - we toured MOC last Fall and it was very nice. I'll update soon on our ROFRs. I think MOC will go through, but Ko Olina is questionable.


----------



## jread

jread said:


> Submitting today for Maui Ocean Club 2 bedroom 3 bath EOYE Ocean Front at $9,500.


Marriott exercised ROFR on this


----------



## AriMorgan

I just had a 6500 MVC contract exercised by MArriott at $34,550.00


----------



## taterhed

jread said:


> Marriott exercised ROFR on this



Sorry.

 I wouldn't get my hopes up on the MKO.  They have been skyrocketing.
 I'm still sore at DW for not letting me grab MKO 2br L/O OV instead of Waiohai.  We love MAW, but MKO would have been better for trades...rents... etc...

 Bon Chance!


----------



## jread

We were disappointed - really want to get an MOC and I thought this would go through based on recent activity - we'll try again. We have an MKO 2br OV EOY in now at $5800. Original eBay listing was $4k but we increased price in hopes that it will go through. Fingers crossed


----------



## AriMorgan

Grande Vista Platinum was exercised at 6500


----------



## GregT

AngelaNoel said:


> Grande Vista Platinum was exercised at 6500



Wow -- a 2BR?  If so, that's one of the few I've seen exercised above the 23% metric ($6,500 is 23.4%).   Thx for posting this.

Best,

Greg


----------



## JIMinNC

AngelaNoel said:


> I just had a 6500 MVC contract exercised by MArriott at $34,550.00



That's a ROFR at $5.32 per point. That's the highest I've seen. TUGgers had been assuming that $5/point might pass due to several exercises reported in the $4.75 range. This raises the bar. Wonder where their choke point is? $5.50? $6?


----------



## suzannesimon

JIMinNC said:


> That's a ROFR at $5.32 per point. That's the highest I've seen. TUGgers had been assuming that $5/point might pass due to several exercises reported in the $4.75 range. This raises the bar. Wonder where their choke point is? $5.50? $6?



It probably depends on what they need in the Trust.  Would Grande Vista fall into that category?


----------



## JIMinNC

suzannesimon said:


> It probably depends on what they need in the Trust.  Would Grande Vista fall into that category?



The ROFR I was referring to was not the Grand Vista ROFR reported on Feb 23. It was the 6500 DC Points for $34,550 ROFR that was reported by the same poster on Feb 19. Those are pure trust points not associated with a specific resort/week.


----------



## AriMorgan

Yes - the Grande Vista was for a 2bd.  Very surprised by the Grande Vista and the 6500 points.  Sammie R.  had points contracts waived for under $4pp so I don't get it.  Maybe because it was such a big point contract?


----------



## jlee2070

OK, getting frustrating now...

Bid on 3rd Waiohai and all lost to ROFR.  Last one was EOY, OV lost at $5500.  Marriott being aggressive at Waiohai...

:annoyed::annoyed::annoyed:


----------



## jread

jread said:


> Submitting Ko Olina 2BD EOY OV for $5,800.


Marriott waived ROFR today


----------



## grupp

Here is my ROFR over the past few months:

2 Newport Coast Gold $4,800 each -Marriott exercised ROFR (October)
2 Newport Coast Gold $4,500 each - Waived ROFR (November)
OceanWatch Platinum Oceanfront $14,800 - Waived ROFR (February)

I had reduce closing negotiated on the NCV weeks they took in October, so the final cost on the 2 NCV weeks that passed and two that did not were essentially the same


----------



## secakc

*NCV Gold*

Any recent data points for NCV Gold?


----------



## gcoleman

*Ko Olina 2BR LO, OV, Annual, waived at $7100*

Just got news that I will be the proud owner of a Ko Olina annual ocean view unit for $7100!  Can't wait to start using it!

G


----------



## taterhed

gcoleman said:


> Just got news that I will be the proud owner of a Ko Olina annual ocean view unit for $7100! Can't wait to start using it!
> 
> G


 
Wow.

Really?  Platinum annual lock-off 2br OV under $8k?

Annual?

that doesn't sound right. 

If it's right....you stole it.


----------



## mindface

*Grande Vista EOY Platinum just approved early this month for $1902*

So, it is Grande Vista 2-BR lock off Platinum, odd -year and 1st year usage in 2017,  just passed early this month with a price merely $1902 (after adjusting up closing/transfer cost, and down the 2016 fee (paid by seller).

and approval just took a week or so, and the whole closing took 4 weeks: I just  booked a March week (using 13-month window with mt other week).


----------



## hsintang

*Lost 2bedroom Willow Ridge to ROFR*

Just heard back from the agent, Marriott bought back the 2 bedroom, platinum unit for $3000 (including the 2016 MN fee and closing cost)....


----------



## jlee2070

Marriott just ROFR'ed another Waiohai EOY-ODD, OV at $6000.  I give up...


----------



## GregT

jlee2070 said:


> Marriott just ROFR'ed another Waiohai EOY-ODD, OV at $6000.  I give up...



That's interesting -- that's the second ROFR I've seen that's above 23% -- this is 23.65%.  Irrespective, I think you are very close to getting your Waiohai, and hope you keep inching up your offer price until it clears (at least you can have the sastisfaction of knowing you didn't overpay).

I think it will one day be very difficult to get the prime properties (that are poorly represented in the Trust) past ROFR at almost any price -- I'm thinking the Platinum Grande Ocean, Waiohai, MOC, Mountainside, etc.   

I think Ko Olina/Grand Chateau/Shadow Ridge will pass ROFR at lower metrics than these, because the Trust is deep in these properties (and will get deeper).

Thanks for posting this, and I hope you get your Waiohai week.

Best,

Greg


----------



## taterhed

Unfortunately, I think a lot of this is all about timing. People love to buy Resorts prior to the prime vacation season, with maintenance fees paid, and often the ability to book for reservations in the next year. I think you'll have better luck if you wait towards the end of the year when maintenance fees are due and the vacation seasons already gone

sent from my cell phone...


----------



## dravasio

Marriott just exercised ROFR for a 2500 point purchase I put in at $4/point (+fees).  And of course they waited until day 28. Bummer.  Always next time.


----------



## dioxide45

*It's Alive!*

With a lot of help from Jpollo on this, I am very happy to announce that the Marriott ROFR database is back! I certainly couldn't have done this without Jpollo on this. He is genius!

The new site has a new look and much better functionality.

The new submission form has been setup to prevent invalid resort and unit combinations. The form fields won't populate with available options until you select an option in the prior field. If you are attempting to enter something that you believe is a legitimate Resort, Usage, Room Type and View combination, and the website won't allow it, please be sure to provide feedback as this can be updated in the database.

Feel free to add your entries to the new site or search through the old ones. All of the data from the old website have been imported in to the new site. I have a information from a few people on their ROFR experiences saved in my inbox as well. If I don't see them added in the next couple months, I will go ahead and add them. I will do the same with ones posted in this thread if they don't get added in the next couple of months by those who reported them.

Please check out the new website at www.rofr.net.

We are looking forward to hearing your feedback.

A few things we have identified that still need work;

Fix the Date field input to force users to enter valid dates.
Fix the Price field input to force users to enter numeric currency masked values only.
Work on the Stats page to provide some analysis reporting.

Marriott ROFR Database Website


----------



## NTP66

Nice job on the site, and thanks for the effort on it; I just added my latest purchases. Outside of the items you already have listed, one key feature for me would be a sort-able list once you drop down to a specific location. A "nice to have" would also be a pop-up calendar when selecting the date, which could also solve your value remark for that field.


----------



## Southerngirl528

Wow Dioxide45, very nice!! Big thanks to you and Jpollo!! 

I just tried to add our MM1 purchase from last August but after inputting all data into the very user-friendly format (thanks again!!), I hit "enter" and got an error message. Tried twice. My browser in use was Safari if that makes any difference. Thanks again!!


----------



## Jpollo

Thank you both for trying out the site and the feedback. NTP66, we've just updated the site to enable sorting after selecting the resort.  And a calendar date-picker is up next on our to do list.

Sourtherngirl, sorry about the error. The site should work fine with Safari, but I can troubleshoot it for you. I PM'd you on some additional info I need to test.

And thanks to Dioxide45 for letting me work with him on his database. It was extremely helpful to me in its first incarnation and am looking forward to having it as a resource once again. 

Jason


----------



## NTP66

Talk about fast... nice! The only other thing that comes to mind right now would be to allow filtering. For example, if you go to specific location, allow the user to select only 1BR units, or only Ocean View units, etc. That would probably be a long-term goal at this stage, though.


----------



## SueDonJ

This is awesome - thank you very much, both of you, for all of the time and effort.


----------



## Southerngirl528

Thanks so much for the PM, Jpollo. Sent you a reply w/info. You guys ROCK!!! Seriously, thanks so much for this info. Now if folks will input their info we can all get a pretty clear idea of what we can get resale for, or what we can sell our TS for. GREAT work!!


----------



## AriMorgan

How do I add points to the spreadsheet?


----------



## SueDonJ

AngelaNoel said:


> How do I add points to the spreadsheet?



Angela, I've moved your post from the ROFR sticky thread to this one, assuming that you're asking about the DC Points allotments for enrolled Weeks and the spreadsheet that TUGger StevenTing maintains.  See the first post in this thread for his instructions.

(If I assumed incorrectly, please let me know.   )


----------



## AriMorgan

No I'm actually trying post my DC points that failed ROFR on the Spreadsheet that dioxide45 did. 

http://www.rofr.net/AddExperience


----------



## SueDonJ

AngelaNoel said:


> No I'm actually trying post my DC points that failed ROFR on the Spreadsheet that dioxide45 did.
> 
> http://www.rofr.net/AddExperience



DOH!  That makes more sense than what I was thinking!  I'll move it back ...


----------



## dioxide45

AngelaNoel said:


> How do I add points to the spreadsheet?



On the Add Experience form of the ROFR database, select 'Destinations Club Points' in the resort drop down. In all other fields; Season through View, you will need to pick 'Points'. Then for the Sales Price be sure to input the price per point that was submitted for ROFR.


----------



## AriMorgan

My eyes must have skipped it.

Thanks


----------



## Jpollo

NTP66 said:


> Talk about fast... nice! The only other thing that comes to mind right now would be to allow filtering. For example, if you go to specific location, allow the user to select only 1BR units, or only Ocean View units, etc. That would probably be a long-term goal at this stage, though.



Sorry, I had to roll back the sorting function. The list became unfiltered after one sorted on a specific Resort. But I'm sure we'll figure it out, and we'll look at the filtering option as well.

However there is a workaround for now. It's not the most elegant solution, but if one sorts on the desired field first and then filters on a Resort, the list will remained sorted. 

All the feedback is much appreciated! Thanks again.

Jason


----------



## dioxide45

I sent out a large PM blast to 33 people that I gleaned from this thread that had a ROFR experience that may not be on the new ROFR Database Website. Hope to see some more data posted to the site. Thanks to all of those that have posted their entries!


----------



## Jpollo

*Waiohai Annual Ocean View*

Just received a waiver on a $13,100 purchase of an Annual Waiohai Ocean View.  Seven days from request to receipt of waiver.

I've added it the ROFR.NET database as well.

I think it would have passed at a lower price, but it worked time-wise for reserving it in 2017.


----------



## hangloose

For ROFR on DC Pts, is there a way in the ROFR Db to see how many DC Pts for each failed or passed purchase?  I think it would be interesting to see if there are any trends beyond price per pt which influence Marriott exercising their ROFR.


----------



## dioxide45

hangloose said:


> For ROFR on DC Pts, is there a way in the ROFR Db to see how many DC Pts for each failed or passed purchase?  I think it would be interesting to see if there are any trends beyond price per pt which influence Marriott exercising their ROFR.



I will look in to it. Not sure how to implement since adding another data field just for points may look odd in the database. I will see what we can come up with.


----------



## chkvtzn

Where can i find information regarding how many DC points a given week is worth? Thanks


----------



## Fasttr

chkvtzn said:


> Where can i find information regarding how many DC points a given week is worth? Thanks



Signature line of any StevenTing post. 

Here's one. http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1872776&postcount=20


----------



## shellbelle

*Newport Coast Villas Gold Week*

Made an offer, accepted by seller, for a gold week at Newport Coast Villas. (every year)
Our ROFR metric is 26% if you count in closing costs, or 22% without. What do you think--going to pass or not? Won't be too concerned either way--if it passes we're happy to have it at this price, if not, we don't really need it.


----------



## dioxide45

shellbelle said:


> Made an offer, accepted by seller, for a gold week at Newport Coast Villas. (every year)
> Our ROFR metric is 26% if you count in closing costs, or 22% without. What do you think--going to pass or not? Won't be too concerned either way--if it passes we're happy to have it at this price, if not, we don't really need it.



My analysis of the data in the ROFR database indicates a fail metric just below 16% and you should be able to pass at just over 28%. This is based on the past 12 months of data and is using the current sales price of $13.04 to calculate the metric. Anywhere in between these two numbers is questionable. Of course, as always, with ROFR anything is possible.


----------



## hangloose

Entry for late April in ROFR db shows a MOC Lahaina and Napili Every Year Plat 2 Bed Ocean view for $16,200 passing?  That sound right?  Thinking perhaps this was in the older MOC section?


----------



## dioxide45

hangloose said:


> Entry for late April in ROFR db shows a MOC Lahaina and Napili Every Year Plat 2 Bed Ocean view for $16,200 passing?  That sound right?  Thinking perhaps this was in the older MOC section?



Unfortunately, the person that left the entry didn't leave their email address and signed it anonymous. So I have no way to verify.


----------



## cory30

Just received notification that our purchase of a Barony Beach EOY (odd), Platinum, garden view has passed ROFR. Purchase price was $799 which included free closing and transfer. I have updated the database but accidentally indicated the usage was annual instead of EOY.


----------



## dioxide45

cory30 said:


> Just received notification that our purchase of a Barony Beach EOY (odd), Platinum, garden view has passed ROFR. Purchase price was $799 which included free closing and transfer. I have updated the database but accidentally indicated the usage was annual instead of EOY.



I have fixed your entry in the database.


----------



## cory30

dioxide45 said:


> I have fixed your entry in the database.



Thank you.


----------



## samara64

cory30 said:


> Just received notification that our purchase of a Barony Beach EOY (odd), Platinum, garden view has passed ROFR. Purchase price was $799 which included free closing and transfer. I have updated the database but accidentally indicated the usage was annual instead of EOY.



That is just a good buy. Did you get it on eBay. Marriott wants $8,350 for the same week.


----------



## SeaDoc

samara64 said:


> That is just a good buy. Did you get it on eBay. Marriott wants $8,350 for the same week.


Looks like Marriott's slowing down its purchases unless they are ocean front/views.

Sent from my SM-G935T using Tapatalk


----------



## Seaport104

cory30 said:


> Just received notification that our purchase of a Barony Beach EOY (odd), Platinum, garden view has passed ROFR. Purchase price was $799 which included free closing and transfer. I have updated the database but accidentally indicated the usage was annual instead of EOY.



WOW!!! congrats!!


----------



## dioxide45

cory30 said:


> Just received notification that our purchase of a Barony Beach EOY (odd), Platinum, garden view has passed ROFR. Purchase price was $799 which included free closing and transfer. I have updated the database but accidentally indicated the usage was annual instead of EOY.



It is also possible that the amount they submitted for ROFR was higher than the $799 purchase price. It has been known that some of the EBay sellers will include the seller paid fees in the ROFR amount. So the free closing costs and transfers on the week you bought may have been included on what the seller sent in for ROFR. So the amount they may have passed on may have been closer to $1,250 or so.


----------



## cory30

samara64 said:


> That is just a good buy. Did you get it on eBay. Marriott wants $8,350 for the same week.



I purchased directly through one of the more reputable (in my opinion) discount brokers. $799 was the "all inclusive" price to include purchase price, closing, transfer, etc. the deed reflects a purchase price of $799 although I don't know specifically what was sent in for the ROFR request.


----------



## Saintsfanfl

I just got a waiver letter on a purchase I made and MVCI did the letter the very next day that the closing company submitted it. I am wondering if Marriott really is blindly waiving everything or at least all purchases of certain resorts. This one was Lakeshore which previously had a very high ROFR threshhold. 

My PA price was fairly high so the pass is not that surprising but not sure it's normal to process an ROFR that quickly.


----------



## samara64

cory30 said:


> I purchased directly through one of the more reputable (in my opinion) discount brokers. $799 was the "all inclusive" price to include purchase price, closing, transfer, etc. the deed reflects a purchase price of $799 although I don't know specifically what was sent in for the ROFR request.



It is easy to verify (if you really want to). When they exercise or wave, they sent a notarized letter to the broker stating that. This letter has to be submitted with the new deed. If you want to be sure, you can ask for it. Or just enjoy the week.

Also another point is when is the first use year. If you get it in 2016 and the 2017 week has been used, then you have to pay around $1200 for the maintenance of the week that you did not use. This will increase the purchase price as well.


----------



## cory30

samara64 said:


> It is easy to verify (if you really want to). When they exercise or wave, they sent a notarized letter to the broker stating that. This letter has to be submitted with the new deed. If you want to be sure, you can ask for it. Or just enjoy the week.
> 
> Also another point is when is the first use year. If you get it in 2016 and the 2017 week has been used, then you have to pay around $1200 for the maintenance of the week that you did not use. This will increase the purchase price as well.



Thanks for the information - I am curious so I will check the letter.

This is an EOY (odd) use year with first usage beginning in 2017. First maintenance fees are due in January 2017.


----------



## dioxide45

cory30 said:


> Just received notification that our purchase of a Barony Beach EOY (odd), Platinum, garden view has passed ROFR. Purchase price was $799 which included free closing and transfer. I have updated the database but accidentally indicated the usage was annual instead of EOY.





dioxide45 said:


> I have fixed your entry in the database.





cory30 said:


> Thank you.



Thinking about this more. The reason you put Annual in at first is because the ROFR Database wouldn't allow you to enter an EOY week at Barony Beach Club. I am not aware that Marriott ever sold EOY at any of the HHI properties. I have yet to find a single EOY week conveyed to the trust for any of the South Carolina properties. Are you sure you actually bought an EOY Barony?


----------



## cory30

dioxide45 said:


> Thinking about this more. The reason you put Annual in at first is because the ROFR Database wouldn't allow you to enter an EOY week at Barony Beach Club. I am not aware that Marriott ever sold EOY at any of the HHI properties. I have yet to find a single EOY week conveyed to the trust for any of the South Carolina properties. Are you sure you actually bought an EOY Barony?



Yes, positive. There is actually a listing in the ROFR database for another EOY at Barony from 2013. Additionally, I have family who currently own an EOY in gold season (purchased directly from Marriott quite a few years ago). 

Barony is the only SC Marriott property that I am aware of that offered EOY units although that is just based upon my own observations.


----------



## dioxide45

cory30 said:


> Yes, positive. There is actually a listing in the ROFR database for another EOY at Barony from 2013. Additionally, I have family who currently own an EOY in gold season (purchased directly from Marriott quite a few years ago).
> 
> Barony is the only SC Marriott property that I am aware of that offered EOY units although that is just based upon my own observations.



Thanks. I remember that other entry when we were converting the database over to the new version. I wasn't really able to verify if it was truly correct or perhaps entered in error. So I just left it as is. I will update the tables in the database to allow for a Barony EOY entry.

I still find it strange that if there are EOY weeks there, why has not a single one been conveyed to the DC Land Trust? Many other properties have EOY weeks conveyed to the trust.


----------



## cory30

dioxide45 said:


> I still find it strange that if there are EOY weeks there, why has not a single one been conveyed to the DC Land Trust? Many other properties have EOY weeks conveyed to the trust.



I agree that is odd. The deed is conveyed as "an undivided 1/102nd fractional interest in Unit No. XXXX, respectively, Barony Beach Club Horizontal Property Regime." Not sure how many units were actually split and sold as EOY.


----------



## tschwa2

The other EOY's I've seen were also in the garden view section at Barony.


----------



## dioxide45

tschwa2 said:


> The other EOY's I've seen were also in the garden view section at Barony.



Good to know. I have updated the database to add the ability to enter EOY Garden View for now at Barony. I really want to try to prevent inaccurate entries in the database, so only allowing logical combinations works best for that.


----------



## sportsfan1

dioxide45 said:


> My analysis of the data in the ROFR database indicates a fail metric just below 16% and you should be able to pass at just over 28%. This is based on the past 12 months of data and is using the current sales price of $13.04 to calculate the metric. Anywhere in between these two numbers is questionable. Of course, as always, with ROFR anything is possible.



If these metrics hold true, how is it that MGV is selling much lower?  I see a 2BR Platinum was waived at $3900 and several other examples at less than $9K.  At 28%, I estimate the value to be just over $10K.  Seems like ~$5K is a fair number for getting waived.


----------



## dioxide45

sportsfan1 said:


> If these metrics hold true, how is it that MGV is selling much lower?  I see a 2BR Platinum was waived at $3900 and several other examples at less than $9K.  At 28%, I estimate the value to be just over $10K.  Seems like ~$5K is a fair number for getting waived.



A platinum 2BR unit yields 2775 DC points. Taking that, Marriott can turn and sell that week for $13.04 per point and make $36,186 off of it. Using that, it should fail at anything under $5,798 but would be almost guaranteed to pass at $10,132.

Obviously that doesn't hold true in all cases since this metric is spread across all resorts with some outliers included. That is just how ROFR works. There was an entry that failed in October at $5,900 and another one that passed at $3,900. Best to just ignore ROFR and get the best deal you can from the seller. These weeks show up fairly often on the secondary market, so there is another right around the corner.


----------



## Saintsfanfl

cory30 said:


> I purchased directly through one of the more reputable (in my opinion) discount brokers. $799 was the "all inclusive" price to include purchase price, closing, transfer, etc. the deed reflects a purchase price of $799 although I don't know specifically what was sent in for the ROFR request.



I am fairly sure that the listing price was an error. They will many times copy another listing and then change the info that is needed. Sometimes they forget to change certain things. In your case it was probably the price so you lucked out. You then double lucked out since Marriott recently started backing off ROFR especially EOY units. 

Count your blessings because that is like being handed a bonus check for $4k. :whoopie:


----------



## cory30

Saintsfanfl said:


> I am fairly sure that the listing price was an error. They will many times copy another listing and then change the info that is needed. Sometimes they forget to change certain things. In your case it was probably the price so you lucked out. You then double lucked out since Marriott recently started backing off ROFR especially EOY units.
> 
> Count your blessings because that is like being handed a bonus check for $4k. :whoopie:



I agree, I expect the listed price was a clerical error. I kept waiting for the broker to call me and tell me they were cancelling the purchase due to listing error but appreciate them honoring the sale (if in fact it was an error). I then fully expected Marriott to exercise ROFR and was pretty surprised when it passed. Timing is everything I guess


----------



## Saintsfanfl

Time for another ROFR test but this one is EOY as well so I think it is going to pass. Grande Vista Platinum EOY Even with free 2016 usage for about $1,100 all in. It is not the same value as that Barony steal but still a really good deal, especially with the half free usage.


----------



## sb2313

Saintsfanfl said:


> Time for another ROFR test but this one is EOY as well so I think it is going to pass. Grande Vista Platinum EOY Even with free 2016 usage for about $1,100 all in. It is not the same value as that Barony steal but still a really good deal, especially with the half free usage.



Thank you for grabbing that as I was very tempted by it, but don't really need it after my HHI buying binge of a silver surfwatch and gold GO!


----------



## Saintsfanfl

sb2313 said:


> Thank you for grabbing that as I was very tempted by it, but don't really need it after my HHI buying binge of a silver surfwatch and gold GO!



I am here to help


----------



## GregT

*Marriott Shadow Ridge Enclaves*

I just passed ROFR on a Platinum Shadow Ridge Enclaves 2BR Deluxe for $4,000.

This is interesting to me because (in addition to wanting the week) this is well below the ROFR metric and is an 11.8% computation.   Marriott appears to be all over the place on exercising ROFR.

I also know they will be building out the Shadow Ridge complex, and perhaps they are less likely to exercise on those properties where there is (significant) future expansion planned.  Will be interesting to track.

I'm very happy about this particular week because I can lock it off into two 1BR units for trading purposes, and it's close to SD for personal use.   I will add it to Dioxide's database.

Best,

Greg


----------



## Saintsfanfl

Have you heard of any units failing ROFR lately? I think they are waiving everything right now. I haven't looked at the metrics but I purchased nine Marriott's since they reportedly stopped buybacks and all nine passed ROFR.

It is a good time to buy 

On a side note depending on who you buy from they may not be submitting the amount that you think they are. There are mass sellers out there that will add in various fees to the purchase price, some real and some maybe not. You never truly know what they submitted unless they are honest with you or you get the info from Marriott. That said they were doing this before as well but some of the thresholds were so high that they would fail anyway.


----------



## GregT

Saintsfanfl said:


> I purchased nine Marriott's



Wow...what have you bought?  

I've not heard of anything failing, but the only place I would have heard is here on TUG....interesting........

Best,

Greg


----------



## Saintsfanfl

GregT said:


> Wow...what have you bought?
> 
> I've not heard of anything failing, but the only place I would have heard is here on TUG....interesting........
> 
> Best,
> 
> Greg



I buy mostly cheap stuff but I checked the metrics and all were significantly below the threshold. They apparently stopped the buybacks and ROFR's a few months ago. Someone reported in this or another thread that when they called for buyback prices the rep said they were no longer doing any buybacks. From that point forward my purchases started passing so I speculated that ROFR was off the table as well for at least the time being.

This is what I have bought in the last few months. Not hard to buy stuff except maybe Lakeshore but none of these would have passed a year ago at the prices I paid or even with the mass seller bumps. 

Willow Ridge Platinum EOY
Lakeshore Reserve Premier Platinum
Manor Club Gold
Manor Club Platinum
Ocean Pointe Silver
Grande Vista Gold X3
Grande Vista Platinum EOY


----------



## dioxide45

GregT said:


> I just passed ROFR on a Platinum Shadow Ridge Enclaves 2BR Deluxe for $4,000.
> 
> This is interesting to me because (in addition to wanting the week) this is well below the ROFR metric and is an 11.8% computation.   Marriott appears to be all over the place on exercising ROFR.
> 
> I also know they will be building out the Shadow Ridge complex, and perhaps they are less likely to exercise on those properties where there is (significant) future expansion planned.  Will be interesting to track.
> 
> I'm very happy about this particular week because I can lock it off into two 1BR units for trading purposes, and it's close to SD for personal use.   I will add it to Dioxide's database.
> 
> Best,
> 
> Greg



Greg,

Any idea how many more units are planned at Shadow Ridge? I know back in 2013 they reported that they still had 484 units planned there, but they also did a big bulk conveyance of units to the trust? I didn't run the numbers, but any idea how many actual units were conveyed in with that 10 million point conveyance in 2014?


----------



## GregT

dioxide45 said:


> Greg,
> 
> Any idea how many more units are planned at Shadow Ridge? I know back in 2013 they reported that they still had 484 units planned there, but they also did a big bulk conveyance of units to the trust? I didn't run the numbers, but any idea how many actual units were conveyed in with that 10 million point conveyance in 2014?



I would suspect that the 484 are still planned because they still haven't begun construction.  Each time we are out there, it looks like they've pushed earth around, but nothing is framed yet.  We will see.

Best,

Greg


----------



## jd2601

*Surfwatch ROFR*

I recently signed a purchase agreement for Surfwatch 2 bedroom Gold Garden View and Marriott exercised their ROFR.  I now just received notice that a purchase for 2 bedroom Gold Ocean View (? name of view catagory Tide Mark building)  Marriott waved their ROFR same exact price.

I imagine they change their mind each contract and do not feel their is much of a difference in value between garden and ocean view?

I was somewhat surprised Ocean View passed and garden did not.


----------



## TheTimeTraveler

jd2601 said:


> I recently signed a purchase agreement for Surfwatch 2 bedroom Gold Garden View and Marriott exercised their ROFR.  I now just received notice that a purchase for 2 bedroom Gold Ocean View (? name of view catagory Tide Mark building)  Marriott waved their ROFR same exact price.
> 
> I imagine they change their mind each contract and do not feel their is much of a difference in value between garden and ocean view?
> 
> I was somewhat surprised Ocean View passed and garden did not.






ROFR is always a moving target, and much of their (Marriott's) activity depends upon their cash flow situation and the demand of the particular resort.  Some may pass ROFR and others may not.

Just set your own price target and keep submitting.  Eventually (hopefully) one will pass for your own ownership.

HINT:   You may have much better luck with ROFR if you buy at a resort which is not fully built out or sold out;  i.e. Oceana Palms in Florida and Grande Chateau in Nevada are likely two such resorts.

Best of luck and keep us posted.




.


----------



## SueDonJ

jd2601 said:


> I recently signed a purchase agreement for Surfwatch 2 bedroom Gold Garden View and Marriott exercised their ROFR.  I now just received notice that a purchase for 2 bedroom Gold Ocean View (? name of view catagory Tide Mark building)  Marriott waved their ROFR same exact price.
> 
> I imagine they change their mind each contract and do not feel their is much of a difference in value between garden and ocean view?
> 
> I was somewhat surprised Ocean View passed and garden did not.



Here's the property map.  Tide Mark (Building 5500) and most units in Ocean Marsh (Building 5100) are designated "Oceanside" at SurfWatch.  (Note the short el section of Building 5100 just above the "D" on the map - those units face the lagoon and are designated "Gardenview.")



TheTimeTraveler said:


> ROFR is always a moving target, and much of their (Marriott's) activity depends upon their cash flow situation and the demand of the particular resort.  Some may pass ROFR and others may not.
> 
> Just set your own price target and keep submitting.  Eventually (hopefully) one will pass for your own ownership.
> 
> HINT:   You may have much better luck with ROFR if you buy at a resort which is not fully built out or sold out;  i.e. Oceana Palms in Florida and Grande Chateau in Nevada are likely two such resorts.
> 
> Best of luck and keep us posted.
> .



Hmmmm.  I agree, sometimes there's no rhyme or reason with ROFR.  But SW is currently refurbing former Sales Gallery space to units; wonder if the OP came up against the "HINT" you mention with his/her second offer?


----------



## jd2601

SueDonJ said:


> Hmmmm.  I agree, sometimes there's no rhyme or reason with ROFR.  But SW is currently refurbing former Sales Gallery space to units; wonder if the OP came up against the "HINT" you mention with his/her second offer?



I would think Sales gallery units would be designated garden units?

We now own a gold at Grande Ocean, Barony, and Surfwatch.


----------



## SueDonJ

jd2601 said:


> I would think Sales gallery units would be designated garden units?
> 
> We now own a gold at Grande Ocean, Barony, and Surfwatch.



Yes, the new units at SW are Gardenview.

I know your Gardenview didn't pass and your Oceanside did, but my thought is that your first was processed before the new units at SW came online in the system.  IOW, SurfWatch didn't have any "developer" units in the system until after your first ROFR submission.

Just a thought ...


----------



## jd2601

I agree it is all about the timing of the offer.  We really liked Garden View at Surfwatch and price point is what I was looking for.  I thing OceanView/Pool View is a good compromise and may not seem as far to the Ocean.

We enjoyed the Lagoon and my son fished with hot dogs.  I do not believe it is far from the Ocean Side units.  I really liked the nature feel of Surfwatch.

We are familiar with all three and there are pros and cons to each.  Being in Hilton Head is great!


----------



## GregT

I finally broke down and bought a Ko Olina .

Just passed ROFR at $10K, it is a 2BR OV Annual.

Best,

Greg


----------



## Gemini Chica

Hope I post right......I passed the ROFR last month for a Marbella Beach Resort and the price was 2500€ for a Gold week 2 bedroom!


----------



## bazzap

We have now passed ROFR @ £2000 each for 2x Club Son Antem Gold 2 Bed EY


----------



## JeffandJamie

*Points ROFR?*

Hi All,

I looked through this thread briefly, and see lots of information on weeks passing ROFR - what about points?  What does it take for a resale of MVC Points to pass?

Thanks in advance.

Jeff


----------



## Fasttr

JeffandJamie said:


> Hi All,
> 
> I looked through this thread briefly, and see lots of information on weeks passing ROFR - what about points?  What does it take for a resale of MVC Points to pass?
> 
> Thanks in advance.
> 
> Jeff



The current school of thought is around $4 a point is the tipping point.  That said, there are not enough reports, so its  hard to tell.  Perhaps a little lower, perhaps a little higher.  If you find someone offering lower and are ok with tying up a little escrow cash to see if it passes, it may be worth taking a shot.  Please post your results if/when you take a shot.  

For clarity sake, you do also know there are junk fees of approx $2/point that need to be paid to MVC to open up the points for full system access.  Just wanted to be sure you were aware.


----------



## JIMinNC

Fasttr said:


> The current school of thought is around $4 a point is the tipping point.  That said, there are not enough reports, so its  hard to tell.  Perhaps a little lower, perhaps a little higher.  If you find someone offering lower and are ok with tying up a little escrow cash to see if it passes, it may be worth taking a shot.  Please post your results if/when you take a shot.



The last report I saw was someone who said $4.50 failed but $4.75 passed


----------



## Fasttr

JIMinNC said:


> The last report I saw was someone who said $4.50 failed but $4.75 passed



I do recall that, and seems like I saw a post shortly after the reports about MVC letting more things (primarily weeks) slip through ROFR at a cheaper price and somebody tried closer to $4 and slipped it past the goalie.  

As we all know, its an ever changing number for sure.


----------



## JIMinNC

Fasttr said:


> I do recall that, and seems like I saw a post shortly after the reports about MVC letting more things (primarily weeks) slip through ROFR at a cheaper price and somebody tried closer to $4 and slipped it past the goalie.
> 
> As we all know, its an ever changing number for sure.



I somewhat recall that same post. The thing that makes me think it may generally be closer to the $4.75 level is when I look at DC Points listings on Seth Nock's site (http://www.sellingtimeshares.net), all of his listings are now at $4.75. In the past, I recall he had listings at lower amounts, but it seems he's moved all his listings up to $4.75. I interpreted that as being indicative of what price he feels it will take to pass ROFR.


----------



## taterhed

I think that one report of a lower ROFR may have also been for A smaller or odd number of points as well

sent from my cell phone...


----------



## Fasttr

taterhed said:


> I think that one report of a lower ROFR may have also been for A smaller or odd number of points as well
> 
> sent from my cell phone...



Here's the thread I was thinking of.  Post #4 was the one I had recalled.  Perhaps JeffandJamie could PM tubulaw and see if their $3.50 offer for a larger quantity passed or not. 

http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=245151


----------



## tubelaw

Still waiting to hear on ROFR.  There was a hold up on the sellers end of contract.  Should know soon.


----------



## mjm1

GregT said:


> I finally broke down and bought a Ko Olina .
> 
> Just passed ROFR at $10K, it is a 2BR OV Annual.
> 
> Best,
> 
> Greg



Greg, I missed your post earlier. Congratulations! That is great news. It's a great resort.

I also have some great news. Our MOC Lahaina Tower OF unit passed at $28,500 and we just received notice from Marriott that it is in our account. We never thought we would own there, but we fell in love with the resort and view during our last stay. Looking forward to staying there next year.

Best regards.

Mike


----------



## nycjimster

*MSE Platinum Week for $1*

Just passed ROFR.


----------



## m61376

nycjimster said:


> Just passed ROFR.



wow- congrats! Although a little sad to see a Platinum week go for $1 and Marriott didn't even want it.Hopefully it just luckily slipped through and not an indication that MF's have outstripped the value of ownership.


----------



## thinze3

*Just bought 1500 DC points for $1 per point.*

I just won an eBay auction for 1500 DC points for $1,576.28.  
This price is most certain to not pass ROFR, but let's see what happens.


----------



## GregT

thinze3 said:


> I just won an eBay auction for 1500 DC points for $1,576.28.
> This price is most certain to not pass ROFR, but let's see what happens.



Wow - great price - congrats and I hope it clears!

Best,

Greg


----------



## thinze3

GregT said:


> Wow - great price - congrats and I hope it clears!
> 
> Best,
> 
> Greg



I wonder if there is a way to have the closing company word the contract to help the process get past ROFR.  Example, first usage in 2018 and simply have them gift the 2017 points to me.

Any ideas?


----------



## dioxide45

thinze3 said:


> I wonder if there is a way to have the closing company word the contract to help the process get past ROFR.  Example, first usage in 2018 and simply have them gift the 2017 points to me.
> 
> Any ideas?



If they did, then Marriott could just pick up the points under the same deal.


----------



## thinze3

Interesting words in my contract which seem to make the cost to Marriott higher if they choose to grab it. 



> The Seller(s) hereby agree to pay commission to *****, Orlando FL in the amount of $3450.28. ...... In the event that the Developer exercises their right of first refusal on this unit the Seller hereby authorizes and directs the Developer to pay the commission directly to the Brokers listed above in the amounts stated above from the proceeds of the sale.


----------



## suzannesimon

I remember seeing something here on TUG a few years ago that brokers get paid by Marriott even if ROFR is exercised.  It seems fair.  A sale is a sale and they should be compensated for their work.


----------



## Fasttr

thinze3 said:


> Interesting words in my contract which seem to make the cost to Marriott higher if they choose to grab it.



This may be the cynic in me...but it sounds like broker/seller combined wanted to get a total of $5K for these and together they likely will come out ahead if MVC does indeed exercise ROFR (as presumably the seller would not pay $3450 commission if you end up getting them...I'm thinking something far less will be charged if they go to you).  It appears they are showing the commission as the difference between your bid and the $5K.  Who knows if seller and broker have a behind the scenes deal to square up after the fact.






.


----------



## SueDonJ

thinze3 said:


> Interesting words in my contract which seem to make the cost to Marriott higher if they choose to grab it.
> 
> "The Seller(s) hereby agree to pay commission to *****, Orlando FL in the amount of $3450.28. ...... In the event that the Developer exercises their right of first refusal on this unit the Seller hereby authorizes and directs the Developer to pay the commission directly to the Brokers listed above in the amounts stated above from the proceeds of the sale."



What legitimate Seller in their right mind would let DC Points go for $1/point PLUS agree to pay that oversized commission, when the market supports a much higher resale value??

You're not afraid that by asking for ideas to help get past ROFR and then posting this one, that Marriott might decide to look very closely at this transaction for the possibility of fraud?


----------



## thinze3

SueDonJ said:


> What legitimate Seller in their right mind would let DC Points go for $1/point PLUS agree to pay that oversized commission, when the market supports a much higher resale value??



IDK. Maybe a death in the family. ??  Besides, eBay IS the resale market for most timeshares and points nowadays.



> You're not afraid that by asking for ideas to help get past ROFR and then posting this one, that Marriott might decide to look very closely at this transaction for the possibility of fraud?



This is not my idea! Being that I have had zero communications with the seller or title company and the fact these words in their document are exactly as came to me, no I am not afraid at all. I think this company is just charging a fixed amount to sell these points for the owner or estate.


----------



## thinze3

Fasttr said:


> This may be the cynic in me...but it sounds like broker/seller combined wanted to get a total of $5K for these and together they likely will come out ahead if MVC does indeed exercise ROFR (as presumably the seller would not pay $3450 commission if you end up getting them...I'm thinking something far less will be charged if they go to you).  It appears they are showing the commission as the difference between your bid and the $5K.  Who knows if seller and broker have a behind the scenes deal to square up after the fact.
> .



I have had this same thought. They may know exactly where the ROFR break point is and be just beneath it so as to make it happen.

I haven't signed yet. I wonder if I should ask to see the sales agreement between the 2.


----------



## Fasttr

thinze3 said:


> The Seller(s) hereby agree to pay commission to *****, Orlando FL in the amount of $3450.28. ...... In the event that the Developer exercises their right of first refusal on this unit the Seller hereby authorizes and directs the Developer to pay the commission directly to the Brokers listed above in the amounts stated above from the proceeds of the sale.
Click to expand...




suzannesimon said:


> I remember seeing something here on TUG a few years ago that brokers get paid by Marriott even if ROFR is exercised.  It seems fair.  A sale is a sale and they should be compensated for their work.



suzannesimon....I don't understand your logic.  

No ROFR:  Seller gets $1500 for points and Seller presumably has to pay Broker some amount of commission.  

ROFR:  Seller gets 1500 and MVC has to pay Broker commission of $3500.  This is a better deal for the Seller as the Seller does not have to pay any commissions..  

The concept of ROFR is that MVC is allowed to step into the shoes of the buyer....which would be to simply pay $1500, just as the buyer thinze3 plans to do.  If the deal were the same to a non-MVC buyer, or conversely to MVC as the buyer via ROFR, in either case, the seller should be compensating the broker for the commissions....unless a game is being played and this smells of game being played.

If the deal to thinze3 were that he had to pay $1500 and pay the Brokers commissions, then I would agree that MVC via ROFR would have to do the same...but that's not how the deal to thinze3 is written.  Its written as 1 deal to thinze3, and a different deal to MVC if they ROFR.

And lastly....this part is very poorly written.  *Seller hereby authorizes and directs the Developer to pay the commission directly to the Brokers listed above in the amounts stated above from the proceeds of the sale.*  If MVC triggers their ROFR right, MVC is paying money....they are not receiving "Proceeds of the Sale" so how can they pay the Broker Commissions from "Proceeds of the Sale"??


----------



## suzannesimon

After 30 years in real estate, I can tell you buyers always indirectly pay the commission in the purchase price.  In this case they split it out and are agreeing to it as a separate charge to the buyer.  Admittedly, the commission seems excessive but I don't know what is chargedto unload a timeshare for someone who wants to get rid of it.  In commercial transactions, the buyers frequently pay the commission to their brokers.  That's not to say there are not shenanigans going on here.


----------



## Fasttr

suzannesimon said:


> After 30 years in real estate, I can tell you buyers always indirectly pay the commission in the purchase price.  In this case they split it out and are agreeing to it as a separate charge to the buyer.  Admittedly, the commission seems excessive but I don't know what is chargedto unload a timeshare for someone who wants to get rid of it.  In commercial transactions, the buyers frequently pay the commission to their brokers.  That's not to say there are not shenanigans going on here.



The point here being that if thinze3 buys it, the Seller pays the commissions. 

If MVC exercises ROFR, MVC pays the commissions.  

I don't see how that is within the spirit OR the rules of ROFR.


----------



## suzannesimon

I'm sure it isn't. Marriott has probably seen all kinds of schemes and decides if they want it badly enough.  We also don't know how much upfront retainer fee was paid by the seller to the broker.  Broker is probably double dipping.


----------



## SueDonJ

Fasttr said:


> The point here being that if thinze3 buys it, the Seller pays the commissions.
> 
> If MVC exercises ROFR, MVC pays the commissions.
> 
> I don't see how that is within the spirit OR the rules of ROFR.



It's not.  If Marriott elects ROFR they're entitled to the purchase _on the exact same terms as the contracted buyer_, and, sellers have no right to impose different terms in the event ROFR is in play.  Legally this setup doesn't stand a chance of surviving a challenge from the Seller if Marriott elects ROFR and holds the Seller to the original terms.


----------



## Fasttr

SueDonJ said:


> It's not.  If Marriott elects ROFR they're entitled to the purchase _on the exact same terms as the contracted buyer_, and, sellers have no right to impose different terms in the event ROFR is in play.  Legally this setup doesn't stand a chance of surviving a challenge from the Seller if Marriott elects ROFR and holds the Seller to the original terms.



Agreed.  

By the looks of it...all the Broker did was take their normal contract which reads like this....
The Seller(s) hereby agree to pay commission to *****, Orlando FL in the amount of $X. ...... In the event that the Developer exercises their right of first refusal on this unit the *Developer* hereby authorizes and directs the *Seller* to pay the commission directly to the Brokers listed above in the amounts stated above from the proceeds of the sale. 

and swapped the the bolded words "Seller" and "Developer" so it looked like this.
The Seller(s) hereby agree to pay commission to *****, Orlando FL in the amount of $3450.28. ...... In the event that the Developer exercises their right of first refusal on this unit the *Seller* hereby authorizes and directs the *Developer* to pay the commission directly to the Brokers listed above in the amounts stated above from the proceeds of the sale. 

I say this because as mentioned in post #204 above, the way its written with the word Developer in there doesn't even make sense as the Developer can't pay anybody from the "proceeds".


----------



## thinze3

I agree. It looks like it will cost me about $3400 less to make the purchase than it would Marriott.


----------



## tubelaw

I think your misreading the contract.  The language simply authorizes the developer to pay the broker directly instead of the seller.  So the developer is "directed" to pay the broker the purchase price up to the amount of the commission.  Here the purchase price is less so the seller would have to make up the difference.  It's akin to a bank issuing a mortgage to a purchaser and paying the broker directly from the mortgage proceeds instead of seller cutting a check.  As stated above Marriott steps into the shoes of the buyer and only has to pay the purchase price.  Seller would have to make up the difference on the commission if that really is the commission.


----------



## dioxide45

tubelaw said:


> I think your misreading the contract.  The language simply authorizes the developer to pay the broker directly instead of the seller.  So the developer is "directed" to pay the broker the purchase price up to the amount of the commission.  Here the purchase price is less so the seller would have to make up the difference.  It's akin to a bank issuing a mortgage to a purchaser and paying the broker directly from the mortgage proceeds instead of seller cutting a check.  As stated above Marriott steps into the shoes of the buyer and only has to pay the purchase price.  Seller would have to make up the difference on the commission if that really is the commission.



I think you may be right. I think the issue with ROFR, is that Marriott pays out directly to the owner of record. So the broker wants to ensure that they get their commission. In this case, Marriott can't distribute more than they are paying for the week, unless the broker has increased the purchase price on the contract to include the commission and the price from the winning bid.


----------



## JIMinNC

dioxide45 said:


> I think you may be right. I think the issue with ROFR, is that Marriott pays out directly to the owner of record. So the broker wants to ensure that they get their commission. In this case, Marriott can't distribute more than they are paying for the week, unless the broker has increased the purchase price on the contract to include the commission and the price from the winning bid.



Wait...since this was an eBay sale, can traditional brokers who don't have title to the week/points (and are simply acting as a broker) sell on eBay? I was under impression the timeshare companies selling on eBay are mainly the companies that charge people big up-front fees to take the timeshares off their hands and which actually take title to the properties before selling them.


----------



## dioxide45

JIMinNC said:


> Wait...since this was an eBay sale, can traditional brokers who don't have title to the week/points (and are simply acting as a broker) sell on eBay? I was under impression the timeshare companies selling on eBay are mainly the companies that charge people big up-front fees to take the timeshares off their hands and which actually take title to the properties before selling them.



They are or could be. There is nothing preventing a broker from selling on Ebay. These companies don't always take title to the property. Often they just get a POA from the owner and then take care of everything from there.


----------



## thinze3

dioxide45 said:


> I think you may be right. I think the issue with ROFR, is that Marriott pays out directly to the owner of record. So the broker wants to ensure that they get their commission. In this case, Marriott can't distribute more than they are paying for the week, unless the broker has increased the purchase price on the contract to include the commission and the price from the winning bid.



The selling price on the contract has not changed. Written just as eBay auction.




JIMinNC said:


> Wait...since this was an eBay sale, can traditional brokers who don't have title to the week/points (and are simply acting as a broker) sell on eBay? I was under impression the timeshare companies selling on eBay are mainly the companies that charge people big up-front fees to take the timeshares off their hands and which actually take title to the properties before selling them.



The broker is simply selling. Their name is not on the documents other than the commission.  The closing company appears to be representing the seller, as the seller names, Mr & Mrs S****** appear with the closing agents name (LPOA J*** *****) in parenthesis.

.


----------



## JIMinNC

thinze3 said:


> The selling price on the contract has not changed. Written just as eBay auction.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The broker is simply selling. Their name is not on the documents other than the commission.  The closing company appears to be representing the seller, as the seller names, Mr & Mrs S****** appear with the closing agents name (LPOA J*** *****) in parenthesis.
> 
> .



So based on the language posted, it sounds like this is how the cash flow would work:

1) If Marriott waives ROFR and lets the deal go through: Seller pays broker $3450 and Buyer pays seller $1500; Seller has a net cost of -$1950; Buyer has a net cost of -$1500 and owns the points; Broker nets +$3450.

2) If Marriott exercises ROFR: Marriott pays Seller $1500 and pays the Broker $3450, for a total cost of -$4950; the Seller nets +$1500; the Broker still gets their +$3450; the Buyer pays nothing/gets nothing.

So in this scenario, the Seller is better off if Marriott exercises ROFR since Marriott pays the Broker commission rather than the Seller. Could that explain why they sold at such a low price on eBay and structured the contract this way? Maybe the deal is designed to _cause_ Marriott to Exercise ROFR, so it's sold at a price at which the Broker thinks Marriott will exercise. The Broker gets their $3450 either way, so they really don't care what the sales price is - they just wanted to sell quickly on eBay at any price so they get paid. If they had listed the points in a more traditional manner, at a price that would definitely pass ROFR, the Seller could have netted as much as $3600 after paying the Broker's commission, but at that price the points may not have sold for a while.

What is unknown is whether Marriott would consider this a valid contract since the cash flows are different depending upon who winds up buying the points in the end.


----------



## dioxide45

JIMinNC said:


> So based on the language posted, it sounds like this is how the cash flow would work:
> 
> 1) If Marriott waives ROFR and lets the deal go through: Seller pays broker $3450 and Buyer pays seller $1500; Seller has a net cost of -$1950; Buyer has a net cost of -$1500 and owns the points; Broker nets +$3450.
> 
> 2) If Marriott exercises ROFR: Marriott pays Seller $1500 and pays the Broker $3450, for a total cost of -$4950; the Seller nets +$1500; the Broker still gets their +$3450; the Buyer pays nothing/gets nothing.
> 
> So in this scenario, the Seller is better off if Marriott exercises ROFR since Marriott pays the Broker commission rather than the Seller. Could that explain why they sold at such a low price on eBay and structured the contract this way? Maybe the deal is designed to _cause_ Marriott to Exercise ROFR, so it's sold at a price at which the Broker thinks Marriott will exercise. The Broker gets their $3450 either way, so they really don't care what the sales price is - they just wanted to sell quickly on eBay at any price so they get paid. If they had listed the points in a more traditional manner, at a price that would definitely pass ROFR, the Seller could have netted as much as $3600 after paying the Broker's commission, but at that price the points may not have sold for a while.
> 
> What is unknown is whether Marriott would consider this a valid contract since the cash flows are different depending upon who winds up buying the points in the end.



I am not sure the cash flow is like that. I see it more like this.

1) If Marriott waives ROFR and lets the deal go through: Seller pays broker $3450 and Buyer pays seller $1500; Seller has a net cost of -$1950 -$3450; Buyer has a net cost of -$1500 and owns the points; Broker nets +$3450 +$4950. The seller in the end here is getting nothing. They probably paid big bucks to unload it. I think they are including the $3450 in the contract as this is the upfront fee the seller has paid to "dispose" of their points. Thus the seller has already paid the commission.

2) If Marriott exercises ROFR: Marriott pays Seller $1500 $0 and pays the Broker $3450 $1500, for a total cost of -$4950; the Seller nets +$1500; the Broker still gets their +$3450; the Buyer pays nothing/gets nothing. the broker probably gets the $1500 and any fee they collected from the seller.


----------



## JIMinNC

dioxide45 said:


> I am not sure the cash flow is like that. I see it more like this.
> 
> 1) If Marriott waives ROFR and lets the deal go through: Seller pays broker $3450 and Buyer pays seller $1500; Seller has a net cost of -$1950 -$3450; Buyer has a net cost of -$1500 and owns the points; Broker nets +$3450 +$4950. The seller in the end here is getting nothing. They probably paid big bucks to unload it. I think they are including the $3450 in the contract as this is the upfront fee the seller has paid to "dispose" of their points. Thus the seller has already paid the commission.
> 
> 2) If Marriott exercises ROFR: Marriott pays Seller $1500 $0 and pays the Broker $3450 $1500, for a total cost of -$4950; the Seller nets +$1500; the Broker still gets their +$3450; the Buyer pays nothing/gets nothing. the broker probably gets the $1500 and any fee they collected from the seller.



I think what you're saying in 1) is that the buyer has already paid the $3450 to the Broker and the Broker will also keep the $1500, for a total net to the Broker of $4950. I could see where it might work that way, if the seller paid a disposal fee up front and now the Broker is just getting what he can in addition for the total take of $4950.

But in case 2), it would make sense that the intent of ROFR is that Marriott would pay the exact same price as the Buyer, or $1500. So your math makes sense in that regard. But the language thinze3 posted was:



> In the event that the Developer exercises their right of first refusal on this unit the Seller hereby authorizes and directs the Developer to pay the commission directly to the Brokers listed above in the amounts stated above from the proceeds of the sale.



So that sounds like Marriott is paying the Commission to the Broker as part of the transaction, not just the $1500 price. If the Seller had already paid the $3450 upfront, why would Marriott need to pay it again? That's what is confusing to me. If Marriott has to pay the $3450 again, then the Broker would be double-dipping and would net $8400. I would think that would definitely be unethical.


----------



## dioxide45

JIMinNC said:


> I think what you're saying in 1) is that the buyer has already paid the $3450 to the Broker and the Broker will also keep the $1500, for a total net to the Broker of $4950. I could see where it might work that way, if the seller paid a disposal fee up front and now the Broker is just getting what he can in addition for the total take of $4950.
> 
> But in case 2), it would make sense that the intent of ROFR is that Marriott would pay the exact same price as the Buyer, or $1500. So your math makes sense in that regard. But the language thinze3 posted was:
> 
> 
> 
> So that sounds like Marriott is paying the Commission to the Broker as part of the transaction, not just the $1500 price. If the Seller had already paid the $3450 upfront, why would Marriott need to pay it again? That's what is confusing to me. If Marriott has to pay the $3450 again, then the Broker would be double-dipping and would net $8400. I would think that would definitely be unethical.



I think the issue here is what is bolded:



> In the event that the Developer exercises their right of first refusal on this unit the Seller hereby authorizes and directs the Developer to pay the commission directly to the Brokers listed above in the amounts stated above *from the proceeds of the sale*.



The issue is that the proceeds of the sale will only be $1500, not $4950. So Marriott can't pay out more than there is in the sale. The wording is probably standard verbiage where they just change out the numbers depending on the details of the transaction. The problem here is that the details of this transaction make the wording not make sense.


----------



## 5infam

*Just Passed ROFR!!!*

So a few weeks back, I posted that I got a call from Marriott about a resale for a Maui Ocean Club, Island view Napili 2 bedroom, every other year. I was asking about the price of the unit here on TUG, and folks were kind enough to educate me on current prices. So I passed on the Marriott resale and looked at what else was out there. I would like to be in the new towers, but what I really need is an EOYE, 2 bedroom, any view is fine with us, as long as it fits in our budget. And what would even be better is 2 EOYE 2 bedrooms, so I can book at the 13 month window. As I was looking around at all of the resale sites, I sort of forgot about TUG's marketplace and decided to take a peek. Well low and behold there was a 2 bedroom, MGV, in the original towers listed for $3,500. So I called the broker, David Patchanian, from ATimeshare.com,  to see if that was real or a mistake. He confirmed it was real, so I said what the heck, let's see if it passes ROFR. Based on the ROFR metrics in the sticky, I didn't think I had a chance. However, to my surprise, I just heard from David that Marriott waived their ROFR!!!! I still have to go through closing, but it will close in plenty of time for me to make my 2018 June reservation and we are super excited!!!

Before I found out about passing ROFR, I also made a bid this morning on a Napili 2 bedroom, Island view EOYE, with a different broker. So if the seller accepts and we pass ROFR again, I could end up with my 2 weeks EOYE, one in the original towers and one in the new towers. Either way, I know I at least have 1 week secured, and for what I think is a really good price. 

Thanks to the folks here on TUG for the great advice!! I also updated ROFR.net so this deal can be part of the ongoing data collection. Looking forward to many more years in Maui, and now I can sell off my 1 bedroom to my friend that wants to buy it from me, so things are working out. :whoopie:


----------



## Slinger

Congrats!

That is an insane price!!! I am in escrow on mine at $6500 to compare. You did amazing!!


----------



## 5infam

Slinger said:


> Congrats!
> 
> That is an insane price!!! I am in escrow on mine at $6500 to compare. You did amazing!!



Thank you - I wish I could take credit as a super negotiator or something, but I offered full ask and just got extremely lucky! Congratulations on your deal as well. I was expecting to pay about $7K, so I you are probably right in market. Good luck!!


----------



## frank808

Isnt mgv marriot grand vista?  

Sent from my SM-N910P using Tapatalk


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## Fasttr

frank808 said:


> Isnt mgv marriot grand vista?
> 
> Sent from my SM-N910P using Tapatalk



I read it that way too....but then realized 5infam was trying to say the view was Mountain/Garden View....at least that's my assumption.





.


----------



## 5infam

Fasttr said:


> I read it that way too....but then realized 5infam was trying to say the view was Garden View....at least that's my assumption.



Yes sorry, MGV is Mountain/Garden View at Maui Ocean Club.


----------



## optimist

Just found out that our EOY oceanfront Maui Ocean Club original building passed at $12,000.  
So happy to go to Maui as owners this time:whoopie:


----------



## 5infam

optimist said:


> Just found out that our EOY oceanfront Maui Ocean Club original building passed at $12,000.
> So happy to go to Maui as owners this time:whoopie:



Congratulations!!


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## MOXJO7282

Congrats!! It's a very special place for us as well. We're desperate to get back.

We've enjoyed the MOC in 2002, 2004, 2007, 2010, 2012, 2014 but now might not make it back until 2019 until my daughter is done with her medical degree.    

The MFs are now $2189 for 2017. To me that is still a reasonable cost for a 2BDRM OF at such a great location.


----------



## optimist

MOXJO7282 said:


> Congrats!! It's a very special place for us as well. We're desperate to get back.
> 
> We've enjoyed the MOC in 2002, 2004, 2007, 2010, 2012, 2014 but now might not make it back until 2019 until my daughter is done with her medical degree.
> 
> The MFs are now $2189 for 2017. To me that is still a reasonable cost for a 2BDRM OF at such a great location.



How nice to have all those memories there.  Funnily enough our kids are both in med school and coming up with a week when everyone is free is the hard part of all of this!


----------



## 5infam

Just passed ROFR on a Maui Ocean Club, original towers, every other even year, 2 bedroom, Ocean View unit for $7,000. The seller is paying next year's maintenance as well. I also sold my 1 bedroom Maui mountain/garden annual unit for $5,000 which just passed ROFR last week. I put both of these on ROFR.net

My goal was to sell the 1 bedroom annual, and get 2 EOYE 2 bedroom units, so we can go for 2 weeks, every other year, and book at the 13 month window. The mountain garden 2 bedroom was an easy buy, and the deed is recorded, just waiting on Marriott to transfer into my name. For the second unit, it was a bear to get something. I bid on 3 different units, had accepted offers, but never made it to paperwork for various reasons. Finally I got a deal to stick and pass ROFR, and now we are waiting for closing. Looking forward to heading back to Maui in 2018 for 2 weeks and in a 2 bedroom instead of cramming the 5 of us into a 1 bedroom!


----------



## NTP66

5infam said:


> Just passed ROFR on a Maui Ocean Club, original towers, every other even year, 2 bedroom, Ocean View unit for $7,000. The seller is paying next year's maintenance as well. I also sold my 1 bedroom Maui mountain/garden annual unit for $5,000 which just passed ROFR last week. I put both of these on ROFR.net
> 
> My goal was to sell the 1 bedroom annual, and get 2 EOYE 2 bedroom units, so we can go for 2 weeks, every other year, and book at the 13 month window. The mountain garden 2 bedroom was an easy buy, and the deed is recorded, just waiting on Marriott to transfer into my name. For the second unit, it was a bear to get something. I bid on 3 different units, had accepted offers, but never made it to paperwork for various reasons. Finally I got a deal to stick and pass ROFR, and now we are waiting for closing. Looking forward to heading back to Maui in 2018 for 2 weeks and in a 2 bedroom instead of cramming the 5 of us into a 1 bedroom!


Wow, that's a great deal - congrats. And I thought I got a good deal on mine at $8300.


----------



## 5infam

NTP66 said:


> Wow, that's a great deal - congrats. And I thought I got a good deal on mine at $8300.


Thank you for that - it was tough finding something OV or OF for what I could afford to pay. I am also selling my DVC points, so there is a budget I am trying to stay in and still have money left over. I tried to get an OF unit that I had to pull out of unfortunately, and then there were 2 different tries at getting in the new towers that fell through. Finally got this one. I think the price is just a factor of timing, with maintenance fees due this time of year, some people may be willing to sell a bit cheaper to get out of their timeshare, so I chalk it up to that.


----------



## MOXJO7282

5infam said:


> Thank you for that - it was tough finding something OV or OF for what I could afford to pay. I am also selling my DVC points, so there is a budget I am trying to stay in and still have money left over. I tried to get an OF unit that I had to pull out of unfortunately, and then there were 2 different tries at getting in the new towers that fell through. Finally got this one. I think the price is just a factor of timing, with maintenance fees due this time of year, some people may be willing to sell a bit cheaper to get out of their timeshare, so I chalk it up to that.


May i ask where you did find such a good deal?  I procured one at $8k and another $8.3k and looking for matching sets either OF or OV.  I do have a new tower OF 2BDRM in ROFR at a good price so hoping that comes through soon but I'm always looking for more units but reasonable deals are far and few between and you better act fast because there are broker vultures that try to buy everything to resell higher.


----------



## 5infam

MOXJO7282 said:


> May i ask where you did find such a good deal?  I procured one at $8k and another $8.3k and looking for matching sets either OF or OV.  I do have a new tower OF 2BDRM in ROFR at a good price so hoping that comes through soon but I'm always looking for more units but reasonable deals are far and few between and you better act fast because there are broker vultures that try to buy everything to resell higher.


Sure, I bought 1 unit that was advertised here on TUG, which was the mountain/garden view 2 bedroom for $3,500, purchased from David Patchanian at atimeshare.com. He is also a long time TUG member. The other unit was a lot harder to find. I was checking Redweek, e bay and a bunch of other sites every day (Magical Realty, Preferred Timeshare, etc.). I also had my prices out to several brokers, as I was willing to pay $7K for an OV and $10k for an OF, EOY 2 bedroom in the original towers, and up to $14K for the new towers. One of the brokers brought me several deals, some were odd years so I couldn't use them, but she was great at looking around for me and bringing me potential deals.  That was Julie Morris-Miller at Concierge Realty. I sent her an e-mail, we spoke, then she kept an eye out and found a seller willing to go at $7K with the OV. She had a $9k OF, but it was odd years. Wish I could have taken that one, but I had to have even as I already bought the mountain/garden and that was even, so I needed a matching even. Like I said, with maintenance fees due, and Marriott not exercising ROFR as hard come year end, I think it is the best time to buy. I also put in a couple of bids that were not accepted on Redweek. I figure all I can do is ask and if they say no, then we both move on. Worth a shot, especially on those that have been sitting out there for a while. Good luck on your OF 2BDRM new tower! Let us know if it passes.


----------



## thinze3

thinze3 said:


> *Just bought 1500 DC points for $1 per point.*
> 
> I just won an eBay auction for 1500 DC points for $1,576.28.
> This price is most certain to not pass ROFR, but let's see what happens.




Well, even with all the shady verbiage the broker put into the contract forcing Marriott to pay more than I would have, Marriott still executed it's ROFR. I will ask for a copy of the letter and Marriott's response.


----------



## hangloose

While I've never been to Crystal Shores in Marco Island, I know the initial sale prices were very high for a legacy week prior to DC Pts Program.   Not much ROFR activity on these either.  Any chance Marriott may stop doing ROFR on these weeks given they are now building the new towers there?  Just curious what others thought.


----------



## Saintsfanfl

hangloose said:


> While I've never been to Crystal Shores in Marco Island, I know the initial sale prices were very high for a legacy week prior to DC Pts Program.   Not much ROFR activity on these either.  Any chance Marriott may stop doing ROFR on these weeks given they are now building the new towers there?  Just curious what others thought.



Are they even exercising ROFR? I don't think Marriott is exercising much of anything except points. This is truly a time when you can completely forget about ROFR when trying to make a deal. I haven't seen any verified ROFR failings on weeks in a while.


----------



## sb2313

Marriott did excercise rofr on a willow ridge platinum week for $100 on me last week. Likely just an outlier, but it was legit as I was emailed a copy of their email regarding it.


----------



## dioxide45

sb2313 said:


> Marriott did excercise rofr on a willow ridge platinum week for $100 on me last week. Likely just an outlier, but it was legit as I was emailed a copy of their email regarding it.


@sb2313, would you mind adding this to the ROFR database; www.rofr.net? I don't see this one listed there.


----------



## sb2313

dioxide45 said:


> @sb2313, would you mind adding this to the ROFR database; www.rofr.net? I don't see this one listed there.


Will do and thanks for creating/maintaining that for all of us.


----------



## MOXJO7282

Maui Ocean Club new towers OF float passed ROFR at  $19,100. 7th Maui Ocean 2BDRM unit but first in the new towers.


----------



## jhac007

hangloose said:


> While I've never been to Crystal Shores in Marco Island, I know the initial sale prices were very high for a legacy week prior to DC Pts Program.   Not much ROFR activity on these either.  Any chance Marriott may stop doing ROFR on these weeks given they are now building the new towers there?  Just curious what others thought.



 I have just acquired two Crystal Shores gold weeks for a great bargain.  However, I must admit my situation is no where near what the norm maybe.  My understanding is Marriott does not have ROFR on CS (according to the closing agent) and at least they let mine pass.

Jim


----------



## dioxide45

jhac007 said:


> I have just acquired two Crystal Shores gold weeks for a great bargain.  However, I must admit my situation is no where near what the norm maybe.  My understanding is Marriott does not have ROFR on CS (according to the closing agent) and at least they let mine pass.
> 
> Jim


According to Syed's list, MVW does have ROFR at Cyrstal Shores. I suspect they have little appetite for weeks there given the new section opening shortly.


----------



## mjm1

MOXJO7282 said:


> Maui Ocean Club new towers OF float passed ROFR at  $19,100. 7th Maui Ocean 2BDRM unit but first in the new towers.



Is this an EOY unit or OV? That's an incredible price for an annual OF in the new towers.

Thanks.

Mike


----------



## jhac007

dioxide45 said:


> According to Syed's list, MVW does have ROFR at Cyrstal Shores. I suspect they have little appetite for weeks there given the new section opening shortly.



I really appreciate their "lack of appetite" for the gulf front building!

Jim


----------



## MOXJO7282

mjm1 said:


> Is this an EOY unit or OV? That's an incredible price for an annual OF in the new towers.
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> Mike


This is a floating OF annual unit. Especially good price considering it includes all closing and Marriott fees. Also includes 2017 usage which I'll rent  to lower initial costs as well. I have my fingers crossed nothing blows up with this deal.


----------



## GregT

MOXJO7282 said:


> This is a floating OF annual unit. Especially good price considering it includes all closing and Marriott fees. Also includes 2017 usage which I'll rent  to lower initial costs as well. I have my fingers crossed nothing blows up with this deal.


That is a phenomenal price -- congratulations and I hope it closes smoothly!!!

Best,

Greg


----------



## mjm1

GregT said:


> That is a phenomenal price -- congratulations and I hope it closes smoothly!!!
> 
> Best,
> 
> Greg



I agree. Amazing deal. I also hope the. Closing process goes well for you.

Mike


----------



## Saintsfanfl

jhac007 said:


> I have just acquired two Crystal Shores gold weeks for a great bargain.  However, I must admit my situation is no where near what the norm maybe.  My understanding is Marriott does not have ROFR on CS (according to the closing agent) and at least they let mine pass.
> 
> Jim



Have they been transferred to you yet? If the closing agent did not submit for ROFR then Marriott will probably not accept the transfer. Not saying they wouldn't pass ROFR but it sounds like the closing agent didn't even try and did not pay the ROFR fee. That will be a problem. The transfer department in Lakeland FL is supposed to see the waiver letter before they enter the transfer in the system.


----------



## MOXJO7282

mjm1 said:


> I agree. Amazing deal. I also hope the. Closing process goes well for you.
> 
> Mike


I didn't have much to benchmark against but did think it was pretty good so glad to get some confirmation. Also paid via SPG Amex with no fee so will get 60k+ in MAR points. From ebay through Sean S. Hopefully it closes quickly so I can try to get a decent 2017 week somehow.


----------



## Saintsfanfl

How will you get 60K+ in points? Isn't it 1 point per dollar?


----------



## SueDonJ

MOXJO7282 said:


> I didn't have much to benchmark against but did think it was pretty good so glad to get some confirmation. Also paid via SPG Amex with no fee so will get 60k+ in MAR points. From ebay through Sean S. Hopefully it closes quickly so I can try to get a decent 2017 week somehow.





Saintsfanfl said:


> How will you get 60K+ in points? Isn't it 1 point per dollar?



[Nevermind, I'm confused and will leave it to Joe to answer.  ]


----------



## sb2313

Saintsfanfl said:


> How will you get 60K+ in points? Isn't it 1 point per dollar?


I'm assuming he will convert the 20k Starwood to Marriott at 3:1 giving him 60,000 Marriott for his purchase.


----------



## Saintsfanfl

sb2313 said:


> I'm assuming he will convert the 20k Starwood to Marriott at 3:1 giving him 60,000 Marriott for his purchase.



Ahh. Nice. I need to get that card. (just registered)


----------



## MOXJO7282

Yes $19.1k plus $2452 MFs  so it should actually be 64,656 points. Shocked they accepted full amount on CC but wasn't going to complain.  The SPG card is adding up for crazy points 84k to sign up (25k sign up plus required 3k spend converted to MAR points), the 64k from this purchase and 190k from paying other MFs.


----------



## Saintsfanfl

MOXJO7282 said:


> Yes $19.1k plus $2452 MFs  so it should actually be 64,656 points. Shocked they accepted full amount on CC but wasn't going to complain.  The SPG card is adding up for crazy points 84k to sign up (25k sign up plus required 3k spend converted to MAR points), the 64k from this purchase and 190k from paying other MFs.



What do you get if you pay Marriott maintenance fees directly with the SPG Amex? Better than the 5 per dollar with the Marriott Visa or still just 1 SPG per dollar?


----------



## sb2313

Saintsfanfl said:


> What do you get if you pay Marriott maintenance fees directly with the SPG Amex? Better than the 5 per dollar with the Marriott Visa or still just 1 SPG per dollar?


Using the SPG card, you do get 2 points per dollar on Marriott charges,which ends up giving you 6 points per dollar instead of 5 using the Marriott card.


----------



## NYFLTRAVELER

With outside purchases of D.C. Points, does the dollar amount cited in your rofr chart include or exclude the $2 per point Marriott "transaction" fee?


----------



## jhac007

Saintsfanfl said:


> Have they been transferred to you yet? If the closing agent did not submit for ROFR then Marriott will probably not accept the transfer. Not saying they wouldn't pass ROFR but it sounds like the closing agent didn't even try and did not pay the ROFR fee. That will be a problem. The transfer department in Lakeland FL is supposed to see the waiver letter before they enter the transfer in the system.



Great points indeed!  I sold one of my Ocean Pointe weeks to a nephew and did the closing my self so am very familiar with the Marriott process.  Benjamin Timeshares is the agent I am purchasing the CS weeks thru and AFAIK are a decent company.  Any/all info about the deal was gotten from them.  They are familiar with the Marriott process also.  However, I admit this too good to be true deal seems unreal but has processed to the point me getting the certified External Transfer Form (and return was acknowledged) but..... NO .....I have not seen wavier release document.  The recorded deed and transfer/wavier fees were paid by the seller (not priviy to what happen there) so if this agent has let this progress to this point without submitting the wavier release then it won't look good on their part (they know better)!  Bottom line, Marriott Rgets two great resort weeks for practically free......or I do.  Also, if they ROFR then I save on some huge MF's I hadn't planned on (and my $1K returned)!

Jim


----------



## Saintsfanfl

But I thought you wrote that the agent said there was no ROFR at CS. So I thought he wouldn't have submitted so there wouldn't be a waiver letter to include with the transfer. It might just be miscommunication but I am pretty sure there is ROFR at CS.


----------



## jhac007

Saintsfanfl said:


> But I thought you wrote that the agent said there was no ROFR at CS. So I thought he wouldn't have submitted so there wouldn't be a waiver letter to include with the transfer. It might just be miscommunication but I am pretty sure there is ROFR at CS.



Yes I have in writing the the agent said there was no ROFR at CS (my first question to them).  However, from the comments I received here I checked myself and there seems to be ROFR.  Now why the agent has taken this thing this far without interruption from Marriott puzzles me also!  In my experience when you get as far as the External Transfer Form which is looking for transfer/wavier fees enclosed then there should be some stumbling block if process has not been followed.   The reason I said I have not seen a wavier is because I have seen every other document needed and I am in agreement with any/all that CS has ROFR.  I have not heard from the agent since they received Marriott's ETF from me and had sent them a note casually asking how things were going, but it is the holidays so I will hear from them until maybe Tue. We started this process on Nov. 7th and one would think any ROFR activity (yes or no) should have been completed.  Go figure!

Jim


----------



## thinze3

JIMinNC said:


> I think what you're saying in 1) is that the buyer has already paid the $3450 to the Broker and the Broker will also keep the $1500, for a total net to the Broker of $4950. I could see where it might work that way, if the seller paid a disposal fee up front and now the Broker is just getting what he can in addition for the total take of $4950.
> 
> But in case 2), it would make sense that the intent of ROFR is that Marriott would pay the exact same price as the Buyer, or $1500. So your math makes sense in that regard. But the language thinze3 posted was:
> 
> 
> 
> So that sounds like Marriott is paying the Commission to the Broker as part of the transaction, not just the $1500 price. If the Seller had already paid the $3450 upfront, why would Marriott need to pay it again? That's what is confusing to me. If Marriott has to pay the $3450 again, then the Broker would be double-dipping and would net $8400. I would think that would definitely be unethical.




UPDATE on winning 1500 DC points for $1576 on eBay last October: The copy of the ROFR from Marriott simply stated they were exercising their right at a price of $4500. ?!.?!.  This amount has never been mentioned or written before. I think it's an insight to how these brokerages operate.


----------



## Saintsfanfl

thinze3 said:


> UPDATE on winning 1500 DC points for $1576 on eBay last October: The copy of the ROFR from Marriott simply stated they were exercising their right at a price of $4500. ?!.?!.  This amount has never been mentioned or written before. I think it's an insight to how these brokerages operate.



Yep. This way the real seller get's the $4,500 which basically reimburses them for what they paid up front plus additional for the sale and the broker gets to keep their "commission". I don't have a problem with this method in principal but what I don't like is the way some brokers don't let the buyer or seller know what is being submitted for ROFR. Sometimes they literally take a signature page that the buyer signed and add it to the purchase agreement that the buyer has never seen. They essentially have two purchase agreements, one for the buyer and a different one for Marriott ROFR (but with the same signature). I usually let them know up front that I realize they may submit a higher amount due to other fees and I am ok with it.

That said I have never known about any amounts like this example where the amount submitted for ROFR is 300% of the purchase price, but then again I have never contracted to buy points.


----------



## dioxide45

thinze3 said:


> UPDATE on winning 1500 DC points for $1576 on eBay last October: The copy of the ROFR from Marriott simply stated they were exercising their right at a price of $4500. ?!.?!.  This amount has never been mentioned or written before. I think it's an insight to how these brokerages operate.


That is $3 a point and way below the current levels being reported as passing. Would you mind adding this to www.ROFR.net?


----------



## 5infam

Just passed ROFR on a Maui Ocean Club, original towers, 2 bedroom, EOYE, Ocean Front for $10,750. I have struggled to get a second unit through to close because of seller issues each time, but this one looks clean and quickly made it past ROFR. Its a little more than I wanted to pay for an Ocean Front, but we needed an EOYE, so it works for us. Can't wait to close now so I can book my 2 weeks at 13 months for 2018.


----------



## GregT

All,

I just passed ROFR on 2,000 Trust Points for $4,494, which includes closings (but not the Marriott junk fees).  Including those junk fees, the total price will be closer to $8,500.

I was surprised to see this pass and will be curious to see if we see further incidence of lower prices.  I will put in ROFR database.

Best,

Greg


----------



## 5infam

GregT said:


> All,
> 
> I just passed ROFR on 2,000 Trust Points for $4,494, which includes closings (but not the Marriott junk fees).  Including those junk fees, the total price will be closer to $8,000.
> 
> I was surprised to see this pass and will be curious to see if we see further incidence of lower prices.  I will put in ROFR database.
> 
> Best,
> 
> Greg


Congratulations - that seems like a great deal!


----------



## frank808

$2.25 is a new low.  Sheesh i remember just a little while ago under $5 would not pass.  

Might be looking at some trust points when it's $3 a point with junk fees. Pretty close as greg is at about $4 a point.  

Nice score greg.  If you don't mind me asking was this on ebay?

Sent from my SM-N910P using Tapatalk


----------



## dioxide45

GregT said:


> All,
> 
> I just passed ROFR on 2,000 Trust Points for $4,494, which includes closings (but not the Marriott junk fees).  Including those junk fees, the total price will be closer to $8,500.
> 
> I was surprised to see this pass and will be curious to see if we see further incidence of lower prices.  I will put in ROFR database.
> 
> Best,
> 
> Greg


Congrats Greg. Great price! Though I thought you were going to sell the package of points you previously bought after your MM1 experiment didn't work? Do you still have those? Are you back in to acquisition mode?


----------



## dioxide45

frank808 said:


> $2.25 is a new low.  Sheesh i remember just a little while ago under $5 would not pass.
> 
> Might be looking at some trust points when it's $3 a point with junk fees. Pretty close as greg is at about $4 a point.
> 
> Nice score greg.  If you don't mind me asking was this on ebay?
> 
> Sent from my SM-N910P using Tapatalk


The minimum with junk fees that you could get would be $2.10. That is if you already own some points and don't have to pay the $300 Owner Education Fee. The transfer cost is $25 per BI. So $0.10 per point on top of the $2 initiation fee. There is also a $95 ROFR fee. You would have to be well below $1 per point before the fees in order to get in at $3 per point all in.


----------



## frank808

I am willing to wait  .  Have no pressing need to get points right now.  With hgvc, dvc and marriott weeks i am in no rush.  

Getting points is more of a convenience.  I have a week that can be enrolled but am better off using it as a trader.  I will just keep renting at 54 cents a point for the future.

Sent from my SM-N910P using Tapatalk


----------



## dioxide45

I think the Marriott's junk fees will keep me out of the game forever. Minimum $3000 is 15 times more than I paid for our last non Marriott timeshare purchase. If trading in II got so bad that it was unusable, I would probably sell our two weeks before I bought points. While we paid $7500 for our first week in 2007, I simply can't see paying anything close to that ever again. Too many other options that I have been finding.


----------



## GregT

dioxide45 said:


> Congrats Greg. Great price! Though I thought you were going to sell the package of points you previously bought after your MM1 experiment didn't work? Do you still have those? Are you back in to acquisition mode?



Yes, I did sell my other points as part of buying the new MOC weeks.    I was surprised this cleared ROFR because the price was so low, but Marriott appears more hit and miss these days.   I'm sort of in acquisition mode, but only specific properties.  I've noticed the last few attempted reservations at Ritz St. Thomas all required Trust Points, and I like that property, so that was the excuse used to buy these.  I don't expect to buy more as 2,000 is the right size wedge for STT.

These were an ebay purchase and I put the bid in and let it ride, I didnt try to snipe.

Who knows what will come next?  But interesting to see such a low price pass.  

Best,

Greg


----------



## mjm1

GregT said:


> Yes, I did sell my other points as part of buying the new MOC weeks.    I was surprised this cleared ROFR because the price was so low, but Marriott appears more hit and miss these days.   I'm sort of in acquisition mode, but only specific properties.  I've noticed the last few attempted reservations at Ritz St. Thomas all required Trust Points, and I like that property, so that was the excuse used to buy these.  I don't expect to buy more as 2,000 is the right size wedge for STT.
> 
> These were an ebay purchase and I put the bid in and let it ride, I didnt try to snipe.
> 
> Who knows what will come next?  But interesting to see such a low price pass.
> 
> Best,
> 
> Greg



Greg, congratulations on a great deal. I would never have thought that would pass. 

Mike


----------



## JIMinNC

GregT said:


> All,
> 
> I just passed ROFR on 2,000 Trust Points for $4,494, which includes closings (but not the Marriott junk fees).  Including those junk fees, the total price will be closer to $8,500.
> 
> I was surprised to see this pass and will be curious to see if we see further incidence of lower prices.  I will put in ROFR database.
> 
> Best,
> 
> Greg



It will indeed be interesting to see if this represents a trend, or is just a one-off fluke.

Have you seen the ROFR submittal letter? I know there have been some instances reported where eBay brokers would fold the upfront fee paid by the seller into the submittal to Marriott. So if this transaction included a big upfront fee paid by the seller, maybe the price submitted to Marriott was higher than $2.25?


----------



## Saintsfanfl

dioxide45 said:


> I think the Marriott's junk fees will keep me out of the game forever. Minimum $3000 is 15 times more than I paid for our last non Marriott timeshare purchase. If trading in II got so bad that it was unusable, I would probably sell our two weeks before I bought points. While we paid $7500 for our first week in 2007, I simply can't see paying anything close to that ever again. Too many other options that I have been finding.



Me too. Here is an alternative strategy that I admit isn't for everyone. Buy a resale week at every resort you want to go to. Earn 5-6 mrps on the maintenance fees. Rent out the reservations you won't use at good enough prices not to sit on the rentals too long for cash flow. At locations that don't rent great, like Orlando and Williamsburg, deposit those units. 

The one drawback as of late is the mysterious difficulty in getting legacy week reservations at some properties. I don't see that situation getting better for weeks owners.


----------



## TXTortoise

FWIW, and just added to the ROFR spreadsheet, my MOC 2BR OF Annual cleared ROFR at $18K.


----------



## JIMinNC

TXTortoise said:


> FWIW, and just added to the ROFR spreadsheet, my MOC 2BR OF cleared ROFR at $18K.



Was that EY or EOY?


----------



## TXTortoise

Annual, sorry forgot to edit that.


----------



## 5infam

TXTortoise said:


> FWIW, and just added to the ROFR spreadsheet, my MOC 2BR OF Annual cleared ROFR at $18K.


Congratulations - great price!


----------



## JIMinNC

TXTortoise said:


> Annual, sorry forgot to edit that.



That is a great price for an annual 2BR OF. Most of the EOY units I've seen listed were at $15,000.


----------



## TXTortoise

Pretty good, though another annual went for $16K...and one possibly at $14K.  The recent couple of EOY at $11K is where I'd like to be, so still looking. ;-)   (All OF)


----------



## JIMinNC

TXTortoise said:


> Pretty good, though another annual went for $16K...and one possibly at $14K.  The recent couple of EOY at $11K is where I'd like to be, so still looking. ;-)   (All OF)



Where are you finding those? I've never seen an EOY lower than about $15K


----------



## TXTortoise

A few folks have made some quick buys on Redweek and eBay, from what I've seen. At least one was through a broker, just making an offer from what I understand.


----------



## NTP66

There was an EOY 2B OF in the $11k range on Redweek a few weeks ago, for sure.


----------



## billkoelpin

GregT said:


> All,
> 
> I just passed ROFR on 2,000 Trust Points for $4,494, which includes closings (but not the Marriott junk fees).  Including those junk fees, the total price will be closer to $8,500.
> 
> I was surprised to see this pass and will be curious to see if we see further incidence of lower prices.  I will put in ROFR database.
> 
> Best,
> 
> Greg



Greg or anyone, 

With this 2000 points purchase for $4,494 at 2.25pp plus junk fees of roughly $4,000 total $8,500. Trying to understand if the junk fees scale up or stay flat once you get over a certain amount of points? 

Meaning when purchasing 2,000 points the junk fees were $4,000. If you were to purchase 7,000points (at once in one transaction) would the junk fees still cost $4,000 or what would the junk fees cost if you had purchased not 2,000 but 7,000points.    

Thanks.


----------



## Fasttr

billkoelpin said:


> Greg or anyone,
> 
> With this 2000 points purchase for $4,494 at 2.25pp plus junk fees of roughly $4,000 total $8,500. Trying to understand if the junk fees scale up or stay flat once you get over a certain amount of points?
> 
> Meaning when purchasing 2,000 points the junk fees were $4,000. If you were to purchase 7,000points (at once in one transaction) would the junk fees still cost $4,000 or what would the junk fees cost if you had purchased not 2,000 but 7,000points.
> 
> Thanks.


The junk fees are basically $2/point, with a $3,000 minimum.  
To be more specific....here is the info from the Points Sticky

DC Trust Points may be resold through any of the typical timeshare resales sites; Marriott is not currently buying back or brokering DC Points resales.

 If stipulated fees are paid, full usage rights will transfer upon a resale to the buyer/new owner of DC Trust Points. Such fees include but may not be limited to:
•$500/BI (i.e. 250 Points) with a minimum $3,000.00 Initiation Fee (increased as of 7/1/14 from $200/BI with a min $2,000) ;
•$300 Owner Education Fee;
•$95 ROFR Fee;
•$25/BI Transfer Fee; etc.
Marriott holds ROFR for all DC Trust Points.


----------



## billkoelpin

Fasttr said:


> The junk fees are basically $2/point, with a $3,000 minimum.
> To be more specific....here is the info from the Points Sticky
> 
> DC Trust Points may be resold through any of the typical timeshare resales sites; Marriott is not currently buying back or brokering DC Points resales.
> 
> If stipulated fees are paid, full usage rights will transfer upon a resale to the buyer/new owner of DC Trust Points. Such fees include but may not be limited to:
> •$500/BI (i.e. 250 Points) with a minimum $3,000.00 Initiation Fee (increased as of 7/1/14 from $200/BI with a min $2,000) ;
> •$300 Owner Education Fee;
> •$95 ROFR Fee;
> •$25/BI Transfer Fee; etc.
> Marriott holds ROFR for all DC Trust Points.



Thanks Fasttr! I stepped away to let the dust settle for a few years and wondered when i came back why the resale point value collapsed over the last couple of years. The more than doubling cost for the BI by marriott from $200/BI to $500/BI I now understand. Seeing gregt's recent purchase at $2.25 per point if marriott increases any other transfer fee's they are putting more downward price pressure pushing the resale point price sub $2. 

They get you when you purchase direct at a lot higher price per point and now(or since 7/1/14) they get you by the $500/BI. I would have to guess there is a big spreadsheet in the finance dept - price increase from $500 to $600/BI the $100 increase = X million right to the bottom line eps or the $25/BI transfer fee to $100/BI transfer fee which would further devalue the resale owner price per point. 

Do you think it is just a matter of when not if they pull one of those levers?


----------



## littlestar

Found out Friday that we passed ROFR on a Marriott Grande Vista even week platinum 2 bedroom. Price was $1,250, with a $250 rebate after title transfer is all finished. So $1,000 all in when done. Dues and useage starts in 2018.  We are Marriott owners once again!


----------



## Saintsfanfl

I just had my first fail in the last 9 months. Shadow Ridge Gold for $1,025. This is right after I had a Barony Platinum pass at $4,500. Go figure.


----------



## samara64

Did the price include all fees. Selling one now but not sure how it will go.


----------



## frank808

Just had a willowridge platinum annual fail at $1039.  For that price, it included the use of 2017 week.  Essentially made the week free but marriott got it. 
I think marriott has money to buy at the beginning of the year.

Sent from my SM-N910P using Tapatalk


----------



## Saintsfanfl

frank808 said:


> Just had a willowridge platinum annual fail at $1039.  For that price, it included the use of 2017 week.  Essentially made the week free but marriott got it.
> I think marriott has money to buy at the beginning of the year.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N910P using Tapatalk



I think Marriott always has money to buy. They convert the unit to points and sell them at otherworldly margins. What holds them back is too much unsold DC points inventory at any given time.


----------



## sb2313

frank808 said:


> Just had a willowridge platinum annual fail at $1039.  For that price, it included the use of 2017 week.  Essentially made the week free but marriott got it.
> I think marriott has money to buy at the beginning of the year.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N910P using Tapatalk


Marriott seems to like to rofr willow ridge. I've had a couple taken so far this year from there- both similar deals to yours.


----------



## Saintsfanfl

sb2313 said:


> Marriott seems to like to rofr willow ridge. I've had a couple taken so far this year from there- both similar deals to yours.



It's a mystery since the conversion isn't good. The only thing that makes sense is they are depositing the units into II and uptrading like we do. When they were doing direct buybacks their offer price on WR was crazy high.


----------



## littlestar

Do you guys think the platinum EOY Willow Ridge's are easier to pass ROFR than the annuals?


----------



## Saintsfanfl

littlestar said:


> Do you guys think the platinum EOY Willow Ridge's are easier to pass ROFR than the annuals?



Absolutely. Even when ROFR was in full swing and everything was failing many eoys were still passing. The threshhold was lower. The speculation is the closing costs involved. Marriott handles a $1,000 timeshare closing the same way you would close a $500,000 house. In some states where they farm it out it is very expensive.


----------



## sb2313

I have a eoy even willow ridge platinum I bought for $10 going, so I'll report back when I hear back on that one. Already have eoy odd platinum, so it would be a good fit.


----------



## sb2313

Saintsfanfl said:


> It's a mystery since the conversion isn't good. The only thing that makes sense is they are depositing the units into II and uptrading like we do. When they were doing direct buybacks their offer price on WR was crazy high.


Wasn't it north of $4k for a while? There seems to be little rhyme or reason to many of thier moves, but I'm sure they have a good reason?


----------



## Saintsfanfl

sb2313 said:


> Wasn't it north of $4k for a while? There seems to be little rhyme or reason to many of thier moves, but I'm sure they have a good reason?



Good reason? Not necessarily but in a way yes. They have departments that are highly segregated. Systems that do not communicate with each other. It would not be surprising if there is a long lag in communication between what is needed and what is taken action on. And what is needed might last just a few resales so the threshold for a given unit might be $2k one week and then $0 the next. The logic in the reason is DC points conversion. When the economy recovered they scrambled to convert everything they could. Then last year they put on the brakes. Now I suspect they are trying to find a start and stop balance which means highly inconsistent ROFR.


----------



## TXTortoise

I really don't know where to post this, but between being a quick reference for the original Lahaina/Napili pricing and knowing now what happened in 2008, and the folks posting didn't, it's really an interesting read, and look in the rear-view mirror.  
(5% money market interest anyone. ;-)

http://tugbbs.com/forums/index.php?threads/maui-purchase-and-pricing-questions.60222/

GaryDouglas>>>
Napili Villas (2 bedroom):
OF week 51 - $78K, week 52 - $91K
IV (Floating) - $44,900, week 51 - $50K, week 52 - $57K

2 and 3 bedroom fixed weeks (OF) were going from $52,900 to $162,300. 

These prices were effective 11/23/07.

The last thing I heard, 2 bedroom OF floating (Napili and Lahaina) were going for $71,900.


----------



## GregT

TXTortoise said:


> I really don't know where to post this, but between being a quick reference for the original Lahaina/Napili pricing and knowing now what happened in 2008, and the folks posting didn't, it's really an interesting read, and look in the rear-view mirror.
> (5% money market interest anyone. ;-)
> 
> http://tugbbs.com/forums/index.php?threads/maui-purchase-and-pricing-questions.60222/
> 
> GaryDouglas>>>
> Napili Villas (2 bedroom):
> OF week 51 - $78K, week 52 - $91K
> IV (Floating) - $44,900, week 51 - $50K, week 52 - $57K
> 
> 2 and 3 bedroom fixed weeks (OF) were going from $52,900 to $162,300.
> 
> These prices were effective 11/23/07.
> 
> The last thing I heard, 2 bedroom OF floating (Napili and Lahaina) were going for $71,900.



That is interesting to read, especially my own words almost 10 years ago?  I'm happy to say that I think I got it right, and I would write the check again....

Thx for posting this!

Best,

Greg


----------



## TXTortoise

It was so enlightening, particularly as many of the folks I've relied on for guidance in the last month were participating in that, 10 year old thread.  The numbers may change, but the stories seem to stay the same.

(iConnections/Emmy has shared lots of great info via PMs, so reading about her husband's stroke that year was heartfelt....and they are both on Maui enjoying things now, which is great.)


----------



## MOXJO7282

Yes very interesting to look back 10 years.  We owned 4 Marriotts all bought direct from Marriott by 2007. Now with 24 Marriotts, the rest bought via resale with the knowledge learned through TUG it's amazing how our plans worked as we imagined they would.  However with all the success we've had buying and renting Marriotts from Maui to Aruba BY FAR the best part of the experience has been these fabulous family vacations we've taken since my kids were 3 & 1.  July 2018 will be our 7th trip to Maui as a family since 2002.   No way that happens if we didn't take the leap into Msrriott TSs.


----------



## ahdah

*[ROFR passed on 3BR summer platinum at a Timber Lodge]*

I have added it to ROFR page.  We are so happy!  Members helped a few weeks ago about going for the 3 bedroom in the summer at TL.  It will be used by my children, daughter lives about 3 hours away. (son in NC with children starting college)
If anyone has a 3 bedroom summer platinum, how difficult to reserve 12 months out.....hope we don't have to worry about that.
It passed in about 12 days. I bought it on RedWeek for $8500.
Thanks for everyone's help!

_[Thread merged with ongoing ROFR Activity sticky thread.]_


----------



## gblotter

Congrats!  I was hoping to hear how things went with your purchase.  You got a great deal on a 3BR unit.  Tahoe is very active and fun during the summer months.  I know you and your family will love the resort.


----------



## gblotter

ahdah said:


> If anyone has a 3 bedroom summer platinum, how difficult to reserve 12 months out.....hope we don't have to worry about that.


Late July and early August are the busiest periods during the summer season. If you are reserving right at the 12 month mark, I think you will be fine.


----------



## ahdah

gblotter said:


> Congrats!  I was hoping to hear how things went with your purchase.  You got a great deal on a 3BR unit.  Tahoe is very active and fun during the summer months.  I know you and your family will love the resort.


Thanks for helping me the last time. Everyone is so excited, especially her children.(young adults)


----------



## ahdah

gblotter said:


> Late July and early August are the busiest periods during the summer season. If you are reserving right at the 12 month mark, I think you will be fine.


We will be ready at 9 o'clock! Thanks!


----------



## catharsis

Just failed on a Club Son Antem gold week .... Admittedly only at $2.25.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


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## sb2313

littlestar said:


> Do you guys think the platinum EOY Willow Ridge's are easier to pass ROFR than the annuals?


Just received notification my eoy even platinum week passed at $10 with seller paying closing. A bit surprised, but ill take it.


----------



## GregT

All,

I just passed ROFR on another 10206 room (Week 22), that is contiguous to my Weeks 23 and 24.  It cleared at $35K and I will add it to the database.

Best,

Greg


----------



## mjm1

GregT said:


> All,
> 
> I just passed ROFR on another 10206 room (Week 22), that is contiguous to my Weeks 23 and 24.  It cleared at $35K and I will add it to the database.
> 
> Best,
> 
> Greg



Greg, congratulations on that nice pick up. Three consecutive weeks will make for a great long stay.

Best regards.

Mike


----------



## Vacation fun

Just passed ROFR Ocean Point 2bedroom ocean side plantium season for $9500.


----------



## Southdown13

My unit that I am selling passed ROFR today for $1,200. Marriott’s Grand Chateau platinum 2br lockoff EOYE.


----------



## gblotter

GregT said:


> I just passed ROFR on another 10206 room (Week 22), that is contiguous to my Weeks 23 and 24.


Does this mean that you have purchased fixed units/fixed weeks for weeks 22, 23, and 24?


----------



## GregT

gblotter said:


> Does this mean that you have purchased fixed units/fixed weeks for weeks 22, 23, and 24?



Yes


----------



## gblotter

GregT said:


> Yes


Are all three fixed weeks for the exact same unit, or do you have to change units each week?


----------



## GregT

gblotter said:


> Are all three fixed weeks for the exact same unit, or do you have to change units each week?


Yes, I have three fixed weeks in the same unit (10206) for weeks 22-24, and then I have a different unit (6206) for week 25. My goal had been to construct weeks 22-25 in my 6206 unit but 6206/24 wouldn't sell to me so I had to pursue 10206 for weeks 22-24.  I think I am done for now 

Best,

Greg


----------



## TXTortoise

I believe that's called a Fractional Ownership, in the 'cheap' summer season. ;-)


----------



## gblotter

GregT said:


> Yes, I have three fixed weeks in the same unit (10206) for weeks 22-24, and then I have a different unit (6206) for week 25. My goal had been to construct weeks 22-25 in my 6206 unit but 6206/24 wouldn't sell to me so I had to pursue 10206 for weeks 22-24.  I think I am done for now


You don't want to get week 25 in 10206? 
I am not familiar with the room numbers. Are these Lahaina tower ocean front?


----------



## GregT

gblotter said:


> You don't want to get week 25 in 10206?
> I am not familiar with the room numbers. Are these Lahaina tower ocean front?



Yes, these are the 10th floor 3BR units in Lahaina Tower.  I love that tower and think the 3BR units rock.

I do want to buy Week 25 as well one day and have located the owner and reached out to them.  They own both Week 25 and Week 26 and are in no hurry to sell (which is fine with me -- wife just rolled her eyes when I proposed the Week 22 purchase).

The problem with fixed weeks is that they are difficult to string together unless you purchase directly from the developer.   And if you own a specific unit like mine and the adjacent week comes available for purchase, you almost have to buy it now or it is probably gone forever.   I'd found the owner of 10206 Weeks 22/23/24 back in 2011 and we just stayed in touch over time.  He was a little ambitious in his asking price and finally came down to my ballpark in 2015.  

We will see what comes next.

Best,

Greg


----------



## taffy19

GregT said:


> All,
> 
> I just passed ROFR on another 10206 room (Week 22), that is contiguous to my Weeks 23 and 24.  It cleared at $35K and I will add it to the database.
> 
> Best,
> 
> Greg


Congratulations, Greg.  Not having to move is really so nice and it should feel more like occupying your own condo in Maui.  By the time you retire, you may own several months at the Lahaina tower.  We love this tower too.


----------



## Dave Ramos

GregT said:


> **** 5/1/16 - This link to the current, active ROFR database is added with the OP's permission:  ROFR Experiences (www.rofr.net) ****
> 
> All,
> 
> I have had a few PMs asking me to compute ROFR metrics for various offers, which I am happy to do, and also asking for the history of this _unofficial _metric.   The following thread is where we collected the data (such as it is).
> 
> I've taken the Points Value spreadsheet that TUGgers helped compile a couple of years back, and computed the ROFR metric for all weeks.
> 
> Accordingly, the attached is a hypothetical price of what should clear ROFR, if the metric can predict a ROFR exercise.
> 
> Please note, this approach is imperfect and I would hate to see a TUGger increase their bid based solely on this -- please make an offer price of what the week is worth to you.   And please consult with a broker on what has been passing ROFR lately, they will have the most current information.
> 
> Anyone can compute their own ROFR metric:
> 
> 1) Start with the DC Points that the underlying week is worth  (example: 3,000 DC Points)
> 2) Multiply #1 by $10 per point (representing how much Marriott can sell the related points for if they ROFR it and deposit to the Trust -- example:  3,000 * $10/point = $30,000)
> 3) Take your Offer Price ($5,000?) and divide it by the result of #2 (example: $5,000 / $30,000 = 16.6%)
> 4) The resulting percentage will likely be between 5% - 35%.
> 
> My theory is that weeks where #4 is less than 23% have a greater probability of not passing ROFR than if #4 is greater than 23%.  It is based on the linked thread up above.
> 
> I welcome comments, corrections and more recent data.  Good luck!
> 
> Best,
> 
> Greg



Interesting update for Hawaii timeshare owners -- I just spoke to timeshare closing company today. According to them, Hawaii passed new regulations that requires companies collecting escrow to post $100k CASH bond with the State.  Regretfully, I won't be able to use this low-cost timeshare closings company because they don't generate the business to support that type of expense.  Anyone able to confirm this?


----------



## TXTortoise

Nothing showing up in Google at this point and nothing in a Surety bond search for the current legislative session.  Might ask them for specifics.


----------



## Vacation fun

What is the resent ROFR for Grand Vista, 2 bedroom plantium annual that had passed? Also does anyone know what Marriott does with the units that do not pass ROFR that they buy?


----------



## dioxide45

Vacation fun said:


> What is the resent ROFR for Grand Vista, 2 bedroom plantium annual that had passed? Also does anyone know what Marriott does with the units that do not pass ROFR that they buy?


Marriott no longer has an active buyback program. The only weeks they take back are through ROFR or through forclosure of MF or loan payments. Weeks they take back through any means get put in to the MVC DC Trust to be resold as points.

See www.rofr.net to see recent Grande Vista reports.


----------



## GM600

Vacation fun said:


> What is the resent ROFR for Grand Vista, 2 bedroom plantium annual that had passed? Also does anyone know what Marriott does with the units that do not pass ROFR that they buy?


I had a realtor that recently told me they had one fail at $1,500 so the next one they did at $1,600 and it passed.


----------



## Vacation fun

GM600 said:


> I had a realtor that recently told me they had one fail at $1,500 so the next one they did at $1,600 and it passed.


----------



## Vacation fun

Thanks


----------



## Saintsfanfl

I haven't paid less than $2,000 for Grande Vista Platinum but all mine have passed.

On buybacks, they do still do them but only for very very few weeks, and most of those are probably $1 deedbacks. They recently offered me $6,800 net for Barony Platinum, which is double what they offered about a month ago. I thought the initial was laughable and the increase surprising. They also offered $1 for Lakeshore Premier Platinum and $1 for another that I don't remember. No buybacks for Grande Vista.


----------



## Saintsfanfl

To put ROFR inconsistency in perspective, my Barony Platinum purchase passed at a verifiable $4,500. Marriott immediately offered a direct buyback at less than $4,000. I don't remember the exact number but it was more than $3,000. Then a little over a month later they offer me $6,800 net. I assume that if the ROFR was submitted today it would fail at the $4,500.


----------



## Joeten5

Does anyone have thoughts on the possibility that Marriott may let some lower priced sales slide through based on a particular buyers history or ownership metrics?  Lets say someone buys a Legacy Week(s) and or Trust points at retail from Marriott, then educates themselves here and puts an offer in for X amount of Trust Points.  Given the fact that the buyer must supply their personal information and Marriott will obviously see it,  perhaps  maybe they'd be more inclined to let a 2.25/pt deal slide on through?


----------



## mjm1

Joseph Teneriello said:


> Does anyone have thoughts on the possibility that Marriott may let some lower priced sales slide through based on a particular buyers history or ownership metrics?  Lets say someone buys a Legacy Week(s) and or Trust points at retail from Marriott, then educates themselves here and puts an offer in for X amount of Trust Points.  Given the fact that the buyer must supply their personal information and Marriott will obviously see it,  perhaps  maybe they'd be more inclined to let a 2.25/pt deal slide on through?



I don't think that would matter. They will exercise ROFR if it makes financial sense for them to do so. They will buy cheap inventory any time they can when the circumstances make sense for them.

Best regards.

Mike


----------



## Joeten5

Has anyone had experience buying for one price from a broker who, in-turn, supplies a contract for another much higher price to Marriott and, in-turn, supplies the buyer with an"addendum" to the contract that specifically states the buyer is only responsible for the agreed upon lower purchase price upon closing, and the seller pays the balance to Marriott?


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## frank808

Joseph Teneriello said:


> Has anyone had experience buying for one price from a broker who, in-turn, supplies a contract for another much higher price to Marriott and, in-turn, supplies the buyer with an"addendum" to the contract that specifically states the buyer is only responsible for the agreed upon lower purchase price upon closing, and the seller pays the balance to Marriott?


I would walk away from that broker.  That constitutes fraud.

Sent from my SM-N910P using Tapatalk


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## TXTortoise

Intriguing, but I'm not sure what Marriott really gains.  For ROFR they want the week back, the incremental one-time partial profit would seem to be in consequential.

Will be interesting if anyone can answer the question.


----------



## Joeten5

frank808 said:


> I would walk away from that broker.  That constitutes fraud.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N910P using Tapatalk


The broker is legit and been around since at least 2005.  I looked them up via corporate database and BBB.  They also have 100's of positive feedback from verified buyers on Ebay.  It appears they are experts at unloading timeshares or trust points for people who want out at any cost.  The person/people unloading essentially pays them what it takes to get that done rather than hanging on to something they aren't using or interested in working with anymore. Marriott gets their money either way.


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## Joeten5

TXTortoise said:


> Intriguing, but I'm not sure what Marriott really gains.  For ROFR they want the week back, the incremental one-time partial profit would seem to be in consequential.
> 
> Will be interesting if anyone can answer the question.


It's for a bank of Trust Point interests.   The seller pays Marriott the extra funds obtained from the person who in unloading.


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## frank808

Joseph Teneriello said:


> The broker is legit and been around since at least 2005.  I looked them up via corporate database and BBB.  They also have 100's of positive feedback from verified buyers on Ebay.  It appears they are experts at unloading timeshares or trust points for people who want out at any cost.  The person/people unloading essentially pays them what it takes to get that done rather than hanging on to something they aren't using or interested in working with anymore. Marriott gets their money either way.



It is still fraud as marriott is not getting the real terms of the purchase.  I am not saying the broker is unlegitimate.  It was more along the lines of an unethical broker.  If broker is willing to misrepresent something to someone else why wouldn't he do it to me. 

Just because they have done transactions with a host of people does not make it right.  Could be those other transactions were on the up and up or maybe not.

If the seller is going to get there money either from the buyer or marriott (via rofr), why make a fake purchase contract?  The only reason to make a fake purchase contract with a "side deal" is to circumvent rofr.

Sent from my SM-N910P using Tapatalk


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## Joeten5

frank808 said:


> It is still fraud as marriott is not getting the real terms of the purchase.  I am not saying the broker is unlegitimate.  It was more along the lines of an unethical broker.  If broker is willing to misrepresent something to someone else why wouldn't he do it to me.
> 
> Just because they have done transactions with a host of people does not make it right.  Could be those other transactions were on the up and up or maybe not.
> 
> If the seller is going to get there money either from the buyer or marriott (via rofr), why make a fake purchase contract?  The only reason to make a fake purchase contract with a "side deal" is to circumvent rofr.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N910P using Tapatalk


I think "fraud" might be a bit of a stretch.  It's a simply an "addendum" added to the contract. Whether Marriott sees the contracts addendum, or not, i'm not exactly sure.  i  can't wrap my thoughts around "unethical" either. If the broker wishes to make a donation, out of the funds it has obviously secured from the original owner, whilst acting as a liaison between the new buyer and Marriott, in order to make the purchase happen, i see nothing wrong with it.  In fact, it ends up being a win win win, the broker gets his profit, Marriott gets their money for the points with the added security of collecting MF's again every year on something that may have been in foreclosure? and the new buyer gets what they want at a deeply discounted price....what am i missing?


----------



## michael49

Joseph Teneriello said:


> I think "fraud" might be a bit of a stretch.  It's a simply an "addendum" added to the contract. Whether Marriott sees the contracts addendum, or not, i'm not exactly sure.  i  can't wrap my thoughts around "unethical" either. If the broker wishes to make a donation, out of the funds it has obviously secured from the original owner, whilst acting as a liaison between the new buyer and Marriott, in order to make the purchase happen, i see nothing wrong with it.  In fact, it ends up being a win win win, the broker gets his profit, Marriott gets their money for the points with the added security of collecting MF's again every year on something that may have been in foreclosure? and the new buyer gets what they want at a deeply discounted price....what am i missing?



I'm an attorney. Trust me, it's at best unethical, and at worst fraudulent.


----------



## Joeten5

michael49 said:


> I'm an attorney. Trust me, it's at best unethical, and at worst fraudulent.


ethics can be subjective at times, usually without consequence.  If you are as you claim, could you please elaborate on what might be fraudulent?


----------



## Saintsfanfl

I've never seen the addendum but many brokers will add in their commission or other fees paid by the seller to sell or trade in their timeshare. This is legitimate because those fees are part of the deal. If Marriott exercises then those fees go back to the seller while the broker did all the work and gets to keep their portion.


----------



## Joeten5

Saintsfanfl said:


> I've never seen the addendum but many brokers will add in their commission or other fees paid by the seller to sell or trade in their timeshare. This is legitimate because those fees are part of the deal. If Marriott exercises then those fees go back to the seller while the broker did all the work and gets to keep their portion.


This is exactly what has happened.  The original owner obviously agreed upon a price with the broker to get rid of the property, prior to the broker attempting the sale.  The broker with the agreed upon price then decides to auction the property at a price point that he is willing to accept at a bare minimum, fully knowing that he will probably need to put up extra cash for the closing if the auction is won at the minimum price. Hence, the addendum to the new buyer stating the amount required from the buyer at closing and also stating what amount the broker will bring to the closing.


----------



## michael49

Joeten5 said:


> ethics can be subjective at times, usually without consequence.  If you are as you claim, could you please elaborate on what might be fraudulent?


If Marriott does not see the addendum, they might later believe that a fraud was perpetrated.


----------



## Saintsfanfl

Joeten5 said:


> This is exactly what has happened.  The original owner obviously agreed upon a price with the broker to get rid of the property, prior to the broker attempting the sale.  The broker with the agreed upon price then decides to auction the property at a price point that he is willing to accept at a bare minimum, fully knowing that he will probably need to put up extra cash for the closing if the auction is won at the minimum price. Hence, the addendum to the new buyer stating the amount required from the buyer at closing and also stating what amount the broker will bring to the closing.



Doing it all official on paper but then excluding the addendum in the submission to Marriott is probably not a good way to go about it. Most brokers just submit the full amount on the purchase agreement to Marriott. I understand it probably equates to the same result, but one is purposefully not disclosing a signed document that is part of the official purchase agreement.

For those that think the additional fees are not legitimate, think of the buyer in a normal real estate transaction paying more or less than the purchase price by either paying for some of the sellers closing costs or commissions or the seller paying for some of the buyer's closing costs. The purchase price is still the purchase price and that is what is recorded and tax is based on. The actual cash outlay can be different. This is completely normal and happens all the time. The only difference is the unofficial and sloppy nature of the paperwork with timeshares because nobody wants to go through all the labor involved with the small amount of money for a timeshare sale.


----------



## frank808

Saintsfanfl said:


> Doing it all official on paper but then excluding the addendum in the submission to Marriott is probably not a good way to go about it. Most brokers just submit the full amount on the purchase agreement to Marriott. I understand it probably equates to the same result, but one is purposefully not disclosing a signed document that is part of the official purchase agreement.
> 
> For those that think the additional fees are not legitimate, think of the buyer in a normal real estate transaction paying more or less than the purchase price by either paying for some of the sellers closing costs or commissions or the seller paying for some of the buyer's closing costs. The purchase price is still the purchase price and that is what is recorded and tax is based on. The actual cash outlay can be different. This is completely normal and happens all the time. The only difference is the unofficial and sloppy nature of the paperwork with timeshares because nobody wants to go through all the labor involved with the small amount of money for a timeshare sale.



Having the addendum is nothing wrong as it is normal.  By not including addendum in the paperwork sent to rofr is not normal.  

Showing marriott one set of paperwork for a higher sales price and having a seperate agreement to pay a lower price to get around rofr is. That is what op asked.  Have no problem if actual sales price is on contract sent to rofr.  

Sent from my SM-T217S using Tapatalk


----------



## SueDonJ

frank808 said:


> Having the addendum is nothing wrong as it is normal.  By not including addendum in the paperwork sent to rofr is not normal.
> 
> Showing marriott one set of paperwork for a higher sales price and having a seperate agreement to pay a lower price to get around rofr is. That is what op asked.  Have no problem if actual sales price is on contract sent to rofr.
> 
> Sent from my SM-T217S using Tapatalk



Yep, I agree, the answer depends on how the sale is presented for ROFR consideration.

ROFR gives Marriott the right to purchase the interval at the same price as the Buyer.  If the paperwork submitted for ROFR shows the amount from combining the Buyer's and Broker's shares but does not include the addendum that breaks out the Buyer's actual lower cost, Marriott is missing information that's material to the process.

I've been reading on TUG for years about all the different ways "savvy" buyers and sellers try to circumvent the developers' ROFR.  In many cases the folks involved have established businesses and otherwise-good reputations, and it needs to be said that many, many fraudulent ROFR submissions are not caught by the developers.  IMO none of that matters.  Fraudulent ROFR activity contributes as much or more to the overall poor reputation that timeshares and timeshare owners/developers/managers suffer so I'd prefer that we push back against it regardless of whether we stand to benefit from it or not.  And I have no sympathy on the rare occasions that a developer pushes back.


----------



## Beachspace

I'm a Real Estate Broker in Miami. 

Not submitting the addendum/hiding it is UNETHICAL and could be grounds for a fraud case. At the very minimum, Marriott could submit a claim to FREC (FL Real estate commission), they would receiving a violation against their license and possibly have it suspended for X amount of months/years. 

If the sales price is $1.00 and they charge the seller $1500, then they could submit the ROFR to Marriott at $1$ + $1500 and Marriott would have to match that. But they couldn't submit a contract to Marriott with a separate deal on the side that only the buyer & seller know about. 

Regarding the broker's stellar rating on the BBB, I'm sure he does have a good rating. The only people he's 'hurting' is Marriott so they would have to submit a claim to the BBB. The customers are, of course, happy!


----------



## Saintsfanfl

The real seller is the extremely happy one when Marriott exercises on a deal that contains their prepaid fees.


----------



## catharsis

I have an ROFR waiver letter which seems to suggest that Marriott were told a price of $4k more than I actually paid.

Given that it passed I'm not asking too many questions, but it does mean I'll be reluctant to use that vendor again.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


----------



## Dean

Joeten5 said:


> I think "fraud" might be a bit of a stretch.  It's a simply an "addendum" added to the contract. Whether Marriott sees the contracts addendum, or not, i'm not exactly sure.  i  can't wrap my thoughts around "unethical" either. If the broker wishes to make a donation, out of the funds it has obviously secured from the original owner, whilst acting as a liaison between the new buyer and Marriott, in order to make the purchase happen, i see nothing wrong with it.  In fact, it ends up being a win win win, the broker gets his profit, Marriott gets their money for the points with the added security of collecting MF's again every year on something that may have been in foreclosure? and the new buyer gets what they want at a deeply discounted price....what am i missing?


Selling under one set of rules but presenting another is illegal in all states I know of.


----------



## brianfox

Just starting a weeks purchase through Redweek for two Marriott Waiohai weeks.  
These are the cheapest I've ever seen ($5500 per week, ANNUAL usage, Mountain View).
This is what EOY usage has been going for recently.
ROFR database unfortunately has very little recent activity to indicate whether this may pass or fail.
Frankly, I'll be surprised if this passes.  Wish me luck.


----------



## hangloose

brianfox said:


> Just starting a weeks purchase through Redweek for two Marriott Waiohai weeks.
> These are the cheapest I've ever seen ($5500 per week, ANNUAL usage, Mountain View).
> This is what EOY usage has been going for recently.
> ROFR database unfortunately has very little recent activity to indicate whether this may pass or fail.
> Frankly, I'll be surprised if this passes.  Wish me luck.



Good luck. Sounds like a great price to me for ANNUAL Hawaii!  Keep us posted on whether Marriott exercises ROFR.


----------



## Beachspace

Just failed ROFR  for Gold Week Harbour Lake in Orlando :-( We found a desperate seller on ebay for $1 with 2017 MF already paid but not used yet for Gold Season. This gave us a chance for a free vacation to use for Thanksgiving week or maybe Labor Day. 
ROFR letter showed $350 or so (all my closing costs) as the sales price. Broker thought if I had paid for 2017 MF and let the seller book my week prior to submitting it might have went in. The free week is what enticed us. 

Oh well, gonna keep looking for deals at Harbour Lake and/or Grand Vista with a lock off!


----------



## dioxide45

Beachspace said:


> Just failed ROFR  for Gold Week Harbour Lake in Orlando :-( We found a desperate seller on ebay for $1 with 2017 MF already paid but not used yet for Gold Season. This gave us a chance for a free vacation to use for Thanksgiving week or maybe Labor Day.
> ROFR letter showed $350 or so (all my closing costs) as the sales price. Broker thought if I had paid for 2017 MF and let the seller book my week prior to submitting it might have went in. The free week is what enticed us.
> 
> Oh well, gonna keep looking for deals at Harbour Lake and/or Grand Vista with a lock off!


Please add your details to www.rofr.net.


----------



## GM600

I received notice today that my Grande Vista, 2 bed, platinum, failed at $1,600. I added it to the rofr.net


----------



## Marriott resale??

Hello

I was just advised today that my purchase of a 3 bedroom Platinum Grande Vista passed ROFR at $4,000 + closing costs. I am happy 

Steve


----------



## Beachspace

GM600 said:


> I received notice today that my Grande Vista, 2 bed, platinum, failed at $1,600. I added it to the rofr.net


I added my Harbour lake one to ROFR. 

Surprised yours failed at $1600. Seen them on Ebay cheaper and was going to buy one. Maybe I shouldn't waste my time now. When I went on ROFR to input mine I saw Marriott bought a lot lately. Even Ocean pointe at $2k failed on there. 

I heard HGVC runs out of $ by October so I was waiting until then to try and scoop up a South Beach one so I can it out for top dollar to people that contact me for weekly rental leads in high season. So many scam type sellers online though, waiting for a redweek or tug or ebay one.


----------



## GM600

The ROFR was dated 6/14/2017 and the realtor said they got notices that 20 units were taken by ROFR today.


----------



## brianfox

Update on the Marriott Waiohai purchase.

PASSED ROFR today! 
Two ANNUAL island view deeds for $5500 each.  That is same asking price that EOY had one year ago.

I saw these on Redweek.  Since I started that purchase, at least one more annnual island view is up for sale right at $5000.  There are two more at just under $6000.
I didn't try to talk owner down on price; $5500 is very reasonable in my book.
Ocean View are still asking over 2x.


----------



## suzannesimon

How much is Marriott selling them for now?


----------



## TXTortoise

https://www.marriottvacationclub.com/resales/index.shtml

Annual...
Island - $18,400
Ocean - $27,700


----------



## GM600

I had another Grande Vista 2 bedroom and platinum fail ROFR this time at $1,700.


----------



## Beachspace

GM600 said:


> I had another Grande Vista 2 bedroom and platinum fail ROFR this time at $1,700.


Yeah, this guy on Ebay (Clem) has them for $2000 and won't budge. Says that's what is needed for MGV Plat 2 Bed. I offered him $1500 but was declined. I won his Harbour Lake for $1, Gold with free 2017 usage but MVCI took it back (see above). Trying another Harbour lake, this time Plat with no 2017 usage for $375. Let's see what happens. (different company this time too).


----------



## Saintsfanfl

Beachspace said:


> Yeah, this guy on Ebay (Clem) has them for $2000 and won't budge. Says that's what is needed for MGV Plat 2 Bed. I offered him $1500 but was declined. I won his Harbour Lake for $1, Gold with free 2017 usage but MVCI took it back (see above). Trying another Harbour lake, this time Plat with no 2017 usage for $375. Let's see what happens. (different company this time too).



I don't blame him for not budging below $2k. I will buy an unlimited number of 2BR Platinum GV units for $2k (from buyers I am comfortable with). I even stretch to $2,400 on occasion.


----------



## Beachspace

Saintsfanfl said:


> I don't blame him for not budging below $2k. I will buy an unlimited number of 2BR Platinum GV units for $2k (from buyers I am comfortable with). I even stretch to $2,400 on occasion.


Can I ask why? Just for trading power or you love that resort? I like GV as well but with me going throughout the year and not needing out of school season weeks, its maybe $100 savings on a 2 bed rental vs the MF you pay. 
I'm looking at getting a 3BR just for trading power and doing a bunch of smaller trips and then having the 3bedroom for later in life as our family grows.


----------



## dioxide45

Just an FYI for anyone using www.rofr.net to search or add Marriott ROFR entries. We have added Hilton and Disney to the website. So you will first have to select which company you are searching for records or when you start to add a new entry.


----------



## Saintsfanfl

Beachspace said:


> Can I ask why? Just for trading power or you love that resort? I like GV as well but with me going throughout the year and not needing out of school season weeks, its maybe $100 savings on a 2 bed rental vs the MF you pay.
> I'm looking at getting a 3BR just for trading power and doing a bunch of smaller trips and then having the 3bedroom for later in life as our family grows.



As long as the units are FC I rent them out and eventually resell them.


----------



## GregT

dioxide45 said:


> Just an FYI for anyone using www.rofr.net to search or add Marriott ROFR entries. We have added Hilton and Disney to the website. So you will first have to select which company you are searching for or adding an entry to when you search or start to add a new entry.


Dioxide,

That's a good addition to the rofr website -- thanks very much!

Best,

Greg


----------



## Beachspace

FYI: just passed ROFR with a 3Bed GrandVista Gold Week for $1500 + Closing costs, no 2018 usage (reimbursed $1650 at closing by seller for January MF). Closing in 30-45 days. (its on ROFR now as well)
Only took 6 business days too! My Harbour lake has been pending for 20 days now...


----------



## MOXJO7282

I have a Maui annual 2BD/3BTH OV pending for my all-in price of $13,150. I'm hopeful it will pass.


----------



## 5infam

MOXJO7282 said:


> I have a Maui annual 2BD/3BTH OV pending for my all-in price of $13,150. I'm hopeful it will pass.


Great price - good luck!!!


----------



## 5infam

dioxide45 said:


> Just an FYI for anyone using www.rofr.net to search or add Marriott ROFR entries. We have added Hilton and Disney to the website. So you will first have to select which company you are searching for records or when you start to add a new entry.


I just went in and added my DVC that failed ROFR back in March - I was the seller and Disney bought it from the buyer. Thanks for putting those up.


----------



## Wahoo

Purchasing 2 Summit Watch platinum weeks at $10k each (from 2 different sellers) and both passed ROFR this week.  Total turnaround time to hear back from Marriott once the waiver request was submitted was only 6 days (Friday -> Thursday).


----------



## brianfox

dioxide45 said:


> Just an FYI for anyone using www.rofr.net to search or add Marriott ROFR entries. We have added Hilton and Disney to the website. So you will first have to select which company you are searching for records or when you start to add a new entry.



dioxide, It looks like the database entry system is not clear at least for Disney users.  One person put price per point and the other total purchase for all points.  Might want to update instructions to clarify


----------



## littlestar

5infam said:


> I just went in and added my DVC that failed ROFR back in March - I was the seller and Disney bought it from the buyer. Thanks for putting those up.


So your Disney Boardwalk failed at $90 a point. Did it have banked points? I would have figured it would have passed at that price.


----------



## littlestar

brianfox said:


> dioxide, It looks like the database entry system is not clear at least for Disney users.  One person put price per point and the other total purchase for all points.  Might want to update instructions to clarify


I put price per point because that is how the Disney sites I follow measure resale DVC contracts. They also list the point status. Example on a 50 point contract: 0/2017, 50/2018, 50/2019.  Disney purchased direct is also advertised priced per point.


----------



## 5infam

littlestar said:


> So your Disney Boardwalk failed at $90 a point. Did it have banked points? I would have figured it would have passed at that price.


No it did not. Apparently it was the 3rd time that the buyer had DVC take a contract from them. I felt bad for them but nothing I could do.


----------



## littlestar

5infam said:


> No it did not. Apparently it was the 3rd time that the buyer had DVC take a contract from them. I felt bad for them but nothing I could do.


Oh, wow. I checked the ROFR base on a couple sites I follow and they had some Disney Boardwalk's that passed in the upper 80's. Makes you wonder if Disney needed a certain use year for a wait list or something. Sometimes there is no rhyme or reason to ROFR, though. 

I was surprised that my platinum 2 bedroom EOY Marriott Grande Vista passed at $1,000 earlier this year. But really happy that it did.


----------



## dioxide45

brianfox said:


> dioxide, It looks like the database entry system is not clear at least for Disney users.  One person put price per point and the other total purchase for all points.  Might want to update instructions to clarify


I saw the two different entries. There is a note below the Sales Price field on the Add Experience form that indicates "If ROFR is for Points, enter the contract price per point." I will fix the entry of @5infam to show $90.


----------



## Saintsfanfl

littlestar said:


> Oh, wow. I checked the ROFR base on a couple sites I follow and they had some Disney Boardwalk's that passed in the upper 80's. Makes you wonder if Disney needed a certain use year for a wait list or something. Sometimes there is no rhyme or reason to ROFR, though.
> 
> I was surprised that my platinum 2 bedroom EOY Marriott Grande Vista passed at $1,000 earlier this year. But really happy that it did.



Marriott does not like exercising on EOY weeks. They have done it but the threshold is lower than 1/2 of the annual. The closing costs are the same. The resale department recently discontinued brokering any EOY units regardless of the property and while the resales and ROFR's are separate the logic is the same. EOY weeks have less value due to the closing costs being the same as an annual.


----------



## 5infam

dioxide45 said:


> I saw the two different entries. There is a note below the Sales Price field on the Add Experience form that indicates "If ROFR is for Points, enter the contract price per point." I will fix the entry of @5infam to show $90.


Sorry - but thanks for fixing it


----------



## brianfox

Just passed ROFR on a third Marriott Waiohai annual island view week @ $5000
The first two were @ $5500 a month ago.

Wonder how low it can go....I won't be the one to find out because I am definitely done buying.


----------



## Hankmoon

I am a newbie. Can someone explain what it means when Marriott exercises their Right of First Refusal? Does this mean they are buying back the TS from the owner? If so, at what price do they buy it back?


----------



## suzannesimon

They buy it back at the price on the contract that a buyer offered you.


----------



## SueDonJ

Hankmoon said:


> I am a newbie. Can someone explain what it means when Marriott exercises their Right of First Refusal? Does this mean they are buying back the TS from the owner? If so, at what price do they buy it back?



Right of First Refusal kicks in after an owner finds a buyer.  An ROFR waiver form must be submitted prior to closing, at which point Marriott has the right to purchase at the same price as accepted by the seller.

If you're thinking about selling Marriott Resales Operations accepts some Weeks for its buyback/brokering program.  There's no guarantee that any/all Weeks will be accepted, and no guarantee that what they accept at one point will be accepted at another. But it's worth a shot, and some actually earn higher returns via that route than on the external resale market.

Complete the required fields at that link to submit an email request for further info; they generally respond within a few days.  You can also use the number on that page to call in but the email submission is easier.


----------



## TXTortoise

If anyone on here purchased the 3BR MOC Napili Fixed Weeks 8 and 9, listed on Redweek at $60K each, please considering posting the passing ROFR number on here and ROFR.net.  Feel free to post Anonymously, but include your email for the admin.
I believe those were 5th floor 3BR.

https://www.redweek.com/resort/P579...ype=resales&view=Oceanfront&sort-resales=week

These are the first weeks I've seen sold in prime winter season and at a price that is somewhat more realistic than the all the other high-priced weeks that have been listed for Lahaina and Napili and haven't moved in 9-12 months.


----------



## dagger1

Just passed Marriott ROFR on a MKO 2/2 EOYO Ocean View @$4,000 (plus $850 closing/transfer costs).


----------



## 5infam

dagger1 said:


> Just passed Marriott ROFR on a MKO 2/2 EOYO Ocean View @$4,000 (plus $850 closing/transfer costs).


Nice one - congratulations!


----------



## dagger1

5infam said:


> Nice one - congratulations!


Thanks.  I will be interested to see how long the closing/transfer takes.


----------



## mjm1

dagger1 said:


> Just passed Marriott ROFR on a MKO 2/2 EOYO Ocean View @$4,000 (plus $850 closing/transfer costs).



Congratulations! That's a nice price too. Have a great time with your trips there. We love the resort.

Best regards.

Mike


----------



## dagger1

mjm1 said:


> Congratulations! That's a nice price too. Have a great time with your trips there. We love the resort.
> 
> Best regards.
> 
> Mike


Thanks mjm1, I have been looking for over year and finally realized I could look forever.  We have always stayed over in Kailua, and either Hale Koa or HHV in Honolulu and never at MKO before.  We are looking forward to being Marriott owners.


----------



## frank808

dagger1 said:


> Just passed Marriott ROFR on a MKO 2/2 EOYO Ocean View @$4,000 (plus $850 closing/transfer costs).


Just wondering who is paying the maintenance  fee for 2018?  Thanks

Sent from my SM-T217S using Tapatalk


----------



## dagger1

frank808 said:


> Just wondering who is paying the maintenance  fee for 2018?  Thanks
> 
> Sent from my SM-T217S using Tapatalk


frank, we will be paying the upcoming MF in December, which I assume is the 2018 fee.  The estoppel which came with the Marriott ROFR waiver should the 2017 box checked and the 2018 box with N/A in it.  But we probably won't close and then be transferred for at least 30-60 days, so we don't expect first use until 2019.


----------



## suzannesimon

dagger1 said:


> frank, we will be paying the upcoming MF in December, which I assume is the 2018 fee.  The estoppel which came with the Marriott ROFR waiver should the 2017 box checked and the 2018 box with N/A in it.  But we probably won't close and then be transferred for at least 30-60 days, so we don't expect first use until 2019.



You should get the seller to reserve a 2018 week for you and then it can transfer to you after closing.


----------



## sb2313

suzannesimon said:


> You should get the seller to reserve a 2018 week for you and then it can transfer to you after closing.


Not really possible on an every other year odd usage.


----------



## sb2313

dagger1 said:


> frank, we will be paying the upcoming MF in December, which I assume is the 2018 fee.  The estoppel which came with the Marriott ROFR waiver should the 2017 box checked and the 2018 box with N/A in it.  But we probably won't close and then be transferred for at least 30-60 days, so we don't expect first use until 2019.


Is 2017 usage still available? If so, contact Marriott after it transfers and you can request a replacement week interval deposit. They'll say it's not guaranteed, but I haven't heard of a time when it was denied. You are technically paying for half of 2017 usage since you're paying 2018 fees, but really nothing to worry about with the fantastic price you got on the week!


----------



## dagger1

sb2313 said:


> Is 2017 usage still available? If so, contact Marriott after it transfers and you can request a replacement week interval deposit. They'll say it's not guaranteed, but I haven't heard of a time when it was denied. You are technically paying for half of 2017 usage since you're paying 2018 fees, but really nothing to worry about with the fantastic price you got on the week!


On the estoppel request form sent to Marriott, one of the boxes checked (asking for a response from Marriott) was:  "Which years are open for usage".
There were 2 boxes (filled in by Marriott):  Current YR - 2017 YES and Upcoming YR - 2018 N/A.  I will check with Marriott when closed/transferred in 45-60 days, but we are happy with 2019 usage, that was the reason for the good price.  Thanks for the advice!!


----------



## dagger1

suzannesimon said:


> You should get the seller to reserve a 2018 week for you and then it can transfer to you after closing.


It's an EOYO week, I don't think you can move it to 2018, can you?


----------



## Saintsfanfl

dagger1 said:


> On the estoppel request form sent to Marriott, one of the boxes checked (asking for a response from Marriott) was:  "Which years are open for usage".
> There were 2 boxes (filled in by Marriott):  Current YR - 2017 YES and Upcoming YR - 2018 N/A.  I will check with Marriott when closed/transferred in 45-60 days, but we are happy with 2019 usage, that was the reason for the good price.  Thanks for the advice!!



The estoppel shows what is available on the current account at the time the estoppel is filled out. That does not mean your usage begins in 2017. Your purchase contract should state specifically which year usage begins and if it says 2017 then you will have 2017 available when it transfers, provided the seller does not deposit it in their II account before the usage is locked and moved to you. Once transfer occurs you can check your account and see if there is a reservation available. If there is none then you can call MVCI and ask for an II replacement deposit. They will put your request in and then they will notify you if it does or does not occur. This takes a few days.



dagger1 said:


> It's an EOYO week, I don't think you can move it to 2018, can you?



Nope


----------



## dagger1

Thanks, we understood that our usage begins in 2019, and based our offer price on that fact.  I see what you are saying, just because the box "Which years are open for usage" and "Current Year" is filled in with "2017-Yes", that doesn't mean that it hasn't already been used or deposited into the current owners II account.  Thanks!!


----------



## Saintsfanfl

dagger1 said:


> Thanks, we understood that our usage begins in 2019, and based our offer price on that fact.  I see what you are saying, just because the box "Which years are open for usage" and "Current Year" is filled in with "2017-Yes", that doesn't mean that it hasn't already been used or deposited into the current owners II account.  Thanks!!



And Marriott does not move any unused usage to the new owner if the usage is prior to the contract specification. Many systems and properties do this but Marriott segregates usage according to the contract so even after the transfer to you occurs the 2017 usage will stay with the prior owner even if it is not yet used.

I recently had a dispute where my contract stated usage begins in 2018 but the problem is that even though Marriott segregates the usage they do not do this with finance and unpaid fees. The usage department and the finance department are completely separate. Marriott always blindly transfers any unpaid fees to the new owner which can immediately become a collection item and soon public record with a lien filing. My usage was to begin in 2018 but I was stuck with the 2017 fee, late fees, interest, and lien filing fee. I ended up getting 60% of the amount refunded to me and the broker also had the seller fill out a form and the 2017 usage transferred to me. That is something I learned that is new to me. You can fill out a form and pay a $25 fee and have usage transferred to a new owner if it was not part of the original contract and transfer process.


----------



## dagger1

Saintsfanfl said:


> And Marriott does not move any unused usage to the new owner if the usage is prior to the contract specification. Many systems and properties do this but Marriott segregates usage according to the contract so even after the transfer to you occurs the 2017 usage will stay with the prior owner even if it is not yet used.
> 
> I recently had a dispute where my contract stated usage begins in 2018 but the problem is that even though Marriott segregates the usage they do not do this with finance and unpaid fees. The usage department and the finance department are completely separate. Marriott always blindly transfers any unpaid fees to the new owner which can immediately become a collection item and soon public record with a lien filing. My usage was to begin in 2018 but I was stuck with the 2017 fee, late fees, interest, and lien filing fee. I ended up getting 60% of the amount refunded to me and the broker also had the seller fill out a form and the 2017 usage transferred to me. That is something I learned that is new to me. You can fill out a form and pay a $25 fee and have usage transferred to a new owner if it was not part of the original contract and transfer process.


Thanks again, I will check in this!!


----------



## Jpollo

A friend of mine just had *two* successful ROFR waivers today.

Waiohai Island View Annual: 5,000 
Waiohai Island View Annual: 5,500
Posted to rofr.net as well.


----------



## Trudyt623

I had a successful ROFR waiver on an Aruba Surf Club OS 2br lockout for $4,000.  I was notified by Redweek agent about 10 days after it was submitted to Marriott. 

Trudy


----------



## csodjd

Southerngirl528 said:


> Emmy, you are such a dear to remember my big challenges with booking my weeks for February on Maui! Thank you.   I wish I could say we did buy a fixed week this round, but we bought 1 week EOYE to go with our EOYO 2 weeks. We bought a float week. The prices for the weeks we would need for a fixed week were just too high right now for what we were willing to pay at this time.
> 
> But I am super excited that we will now get to go to Maui every year rather than EOY!!! Yippee!!! And I have certainly not ruled out that elusive fixed week 2 bdrm Annual oceanfront in either Napili or Lahaina tower......


I'm waiting to hear on a 2-bd oceanfront Napili EOY-Odd at $13.5k, but not expecting a problem as there are several on the market in the $15k area.


----------



## dioxide45

Trudyt623 said:


> I had a successful ROFR waiver on an Aruba Surf Club OS 2br lockout for $4,000.  I was notified by Redweek agent about 10 days after it was submitted to Marriott.
> 
> Trudy


Was this for an EOY week? This seems like a very low price. All of the most recent postings on www.ROFR.net have Ocean View failing above $10,000. Can you also add your experience to www.ROFR.net?


----------



## Beachspace

Beachspace said:


> FYI: just passed ROFR with a 3Bed GrandVista Gold Week for $1500 + Closing costs, no 2018 usage (reimbursed $1650 at closing by seller for January MF). Closing in 30-45 days. (its on ROFR now as well)
> Only took 6 business days too! My Harbour lake has been pending for 20 days now...



Update: I just passed ROFR on my Harbour Lake Plat 2 Bedroom! It was about 8 business days because the first 30 days, the broker did nothing with our contract! That's what was taking so long. Even though I had been arguing that it was taking a while to hear something and they responded with "I'm gonna call marriott now to find out what their problem is!" (and all along they never submitted the contract). After yelling at them, they 'expedited' our deal to Marriott and we got a respones right away.

Question for Dioxide - My winning ebay bid was $370 including free closing costs. The waiver submitted was $2370 ($2,000 in 'marketing' costs to the seller). What should i put on the ROFR database? $370 or $2370?

Excited I got both my GV 3 Bedroom and my Harbour Lake Platinum (Both Annual) for about $2300 total! Just 3 months ago we were at our 1st time share presentation being 'sold' on why we should buy 2000 points for $27,000! Couldn't have done it without the help from TUG!


----------



## dioxide45

Beachspace said:


> Question for Dioxide - My winning ebay bid was $370 including free closing costs. The waiver submitted was $2370 ($2,000 in 'marketing' costs to the seller). What should i put on the ROFR database? $370 or $2370?


Best to post what was submitted, $2370. That is the problem with Ebay auctions, at least you know what was actually submitted, many don't. It is best to know what the actual number used for the submission was.


----------



## suenmike32

I'm in the process of selling one of my timeshares and handling the sale through my own title transfer company. I am proactive in the process and faxed the rofr request myself to Marriott resales. It was waived and I was notified in 3 days.
I have moved on to the next step and will post the progress as well as pricing after the closing. Essentially, what I'm saying is that parent companies, brokers, lawyers and to some extent salespersons move at their own speed. Sometimes they need a bit of "verbal enlightenment" to get them on track.


----------



## Beachspace

suenmike32 said:


> I'm in the process of selling one of my timeshares and handling the sale through my own title transfer company. I am proactive in the process and faxed the rofr request myself to Marriott resales. It was waived and I was notified in 3 days.
> I have moved on to the next step and will post the progress as well as pricing after the closing. Essentially, what I'm saying is that parent companies, brokers, lawyers and to some extent salespersons move at their own speed. Sometimes they need a bit of "verbal enlightenment" to get them on track.



After I lit into them, the 'manager' called me and basically said 'The ladies selling/marketing have no idea about ROFR, when its sent in. We sell a lot of cheap timeshares, that's why we say it can take 90-150 days. Usually the first month it just sits in our Queue til we get around to it. If we had to stop and reply to every customer that emailed, we would never get anything done" --- Wow!! Lucky for him I got such a good deal that I didn't tell him to go *$%* himself and move on to another. 

I'll post the review of the company once its officially done.


----------



## Saintsfanfl

Beachspace said:


> After I lit into them, the 'manager' called me and basically said 'The ladies selling/marketing have no idea about ROFR, when its sent in. We sell a lot of cheap timeshares, that's why we say it can take 90-150 days. Usually the first month it just sits in our Queue til we get around to it. If we had to stop and reply to every customer that emailed, we would never get anything done" --- Wow!! Lucky for him I got such a good deal that I didn't tell him to go *$%* himself and move on to another.
> 
> I'll post the review of the company once its officially done.



I have dealt and deal on a daily basis with many of these companies. You might not like it but the best deals are with the worst companies because people are apprehensive to buy from them. You likely would have never gotten as good of a deal from a widely known, reputable, and efficient company.

Also the strictly by the book reputable brokers would never add $2,000 to the price for ROFR. The most a strictly by the book broker will do is fold the closing costs into the purchase price and make the closing "free". It doesn't mean there are not reputable companies out there adding commission and fees to boost the ROFR price. My absolute favorite company to buy from will do this, but it is a questionable enough practice that a traditional by the book broker will simply never consider doing it.


----------



## Trudyt623

dioxide45 said:


> Was this for an EOY week? This seems like a very low price. All of the most recent postings on www.ROFR.net have Ocean View failing above $10,000. Can you also add your experience to www.ROFR.net?




This is an annual Oceanside week during the gold season (mid-may to Mid December).   RTU

I corresponded with the owner and the Redweek team handled everything. My first inquiry to the owner was around July 15th and after agreeing to buy it the agent contacted me a few days later. About 10 days after both parties signed I received the closing documents and info.   The transfer should be completed shortly


----------



## dannybaker

Joeten5 said:


> Has anyone had experience buying for one price from a broker who, in-turn, supplies a contract for another much higher price to Marriott and, in-turn, supplies the buyer with an"addendum" to the contract that specifically states the buyer is only responsible for the agreed upon lower purchase price upon closing, and the seller pays the balance to Marriott?


I have practiced Real Estate for over 20 years as a Broker/Agent/Owner.
There are Federal and state laws that apply to a contract. Each state has a separate set of laws and rules. It is very expensive to break or violate these rules. Fines can run way over 50k as an owner Broker. In addition to potentially losing your license. I do not understand why an agent would violate any laws or rules. He is not profiting by not sending in all the addendums, why would he do it?
Is he required to send in addendums?
Marriott wants a simple  sales agreement document to make a decision, bottom line $$ amounts. Sometimes an agent might have agreed to sell the timeshare for a certain price or fee, which is perfectly legal to do. Bottom line is there is a ton of speculation about a Broker who has been in business since 2005.  We do not know what was or wasn't sent into Marriott. Usually the title company wants all items and Marriott does not.


----------



## SueDonJ

I will never understand how TUGgers can be okay with agents basically committing fraud, i.e. submitting an ROFR document with anything other than the actual price paid for a timeshare.  Isn't the ROFR database useless if it contains fraudulent submissions?

The question is, simply, whether or not we want the industry to be rife with disinformation and manipulation that causes harm. It doesn't matter if the one being harmed is the buyer, seller or developer.  Complaining when it's done to you is disingenuous when you're okay with doing it yourself or having it done on your behalf.


----------



## klpca

I stumbled across a Redweek thread recently that discussed the amount of monies being expended by current owners who asked one of the PCC's to 'take the timeshare off their hands". The costs quoted included the resort transfer fees, prepaid maintenance fees, recording costs etc associated with the relinquishment. These amounts were paid by the relinquishing owner. The new purchasing owner then only paid the bid price on ebay. When submitting the ROFR paperwork to Marriott, how should those costs paid by the prior owner be handled? In the case of a traditional (non-timeshare) property sale, isn't the sale price inflated, then cash required from the buyer is reduced by amounts paid by sellers (I definitely see this on escrows - non-timeshare). This is a pretty big deal in CA as the sales price is what is recorded and used to calculate property tax. It is also used for comps on appraisals.


----------



## Saintsfanfl

klpca said:


> I stumbled across a Redweek thread recently that discussed the amount of monies being expended by current owners who asked one of the PCC's to 'take the timeshare off their hands". The costs quoted included the resort transfer fees, prepaid maintenance fees, recording costs etc associated with the relinquishment. These amounts were paid by the relinquishing owner. The new purchasing owner then only paid the bid price on ebay. When submitting the ROFR paperwork to Marriott, how should those costs paid by the prior owner be handled? In the case of a traditional (non-timeshare) property sale, isn't the sale price inflated, then cash required from the buyer is reduced by amounts paid by sellers (I definitely see this on escrows - non-timeshare). This is a pretty big deal in CA as the sales price is what is recorded and used to calculate property tax. It is also used for comps on appraisals.



In your example you have a timeshare that has little to no value. Instead of being able to sell it the "seller" has to pay someone to take it and find a bargain buyer. The normal real estate transaction issue is something of real value and the buyer closing costs paid by the seller is negotiated, clearly in the sales agreement, and considered by the lender as well as the lender's appraisal. It does distort taxes but not to the benefit of the buyer and it does inflate comparables.

There are some costs that would be legitimate to be considered "buyer closing costs paid by seller" but the fact that it is off the record is the debated issue. The whole thing could be accomplished the same way but timeshare brokers cut corners and don't like to do the extra paperwork. Marriott doesn't really care enough to do anything because they have more buybacks and ROFRs being exercised when they want them than they can handle.


----------



## klpca

Saintsfanfl said:


> In your example you have a timeshare that has little to no value. Instead of being able to sell it the "seller" has to pay someone to take it and find a bargain buyer. The normal real estate transaction issue is something of real value and the buyer closing costs paid by the seller is negotiated, clearly in the sales agreement, and considered by the lender as well as the lender's appraisal. It does distort taxes but not to the benefit of the buyer and it does inflate comparables.
> 
> There are some costs that would be legitimate to be considered "buyer closing costs paid by seller" but the fact that it is off the record is the debated issue. The whole thing could be accomplished the same way but timeshare brokers cut corners and don't like to do the extra paperwork. Marriott doesn't really care enough to do anything because they have more buybacks and ROFRs being exercised when they want them than they can handle.


I just see it as two items having an overstated sales price. In both cases, the actual perceived value is the net number. A timeshare is just an extreme example. And I totally agree that Marriott doesn't care enough to dig very deep.


----------



## Saintsfanfl

klpca said:


> I just see it as two items having an overstated sales price. In both cases, the actual perceived value is the net number. A timeshare is just an extreme example. And I totally agree that Marriott doesn't care enough to dig very deep.



Except one is documented and the other is not. The real difference is the paperwork or lack thereof. Many times the "legitimate" increasing of the ROFR price is not on the purchase agreement for the buyer. This would never ever happen with a house transaction. If it was properly documented there would be no issues at all. Without the documentation and proper settlement statement nobody can tell if it is legitimate or fraudulent.


----------



## dioxide45

SueDonJ said:


> I will never understand how TUGgers can be okay with agents basically committing fraud, i.e. submitting an ROFR document with anything other than the actual price paid for a timeshare.  Isn't the ROFR database useless if it contains fraudulent submissions?
> 
> The question is, simply, whether or not we want the industry to be rife with disinformation and manipulation that causes harm. It doesn't matter if the one being harmed is the buyer, seller or developer.  Complaining when it's done to you is disingenuous when you're okay with doing it yourself or having it done on your behalf.


The ROFR database is really only as good as the information put in to it. That is why when asked earlier what to put in, one should always list what is actually submitted to Marriott for the ROFR. The database is really just a tool or guide to get a general idea of what might or might not pass. What individual agents do or don't do is really beyond the control of anyone here. I think however that any buyer paid costs are okay to be included in the costs submitted to Marriott for ROFR. Back when we bought our Harbour Lake for $899, the agent submitted if for $1235, which was the actual amount of money we had to put in escrow. I think it is rather questionable for the agent to include seller paid costs as Marriott should also be getting the benefits of those seller paid costs if they step in to exercise. I am certainly not condoning fraud, but always ask people to submit the most accurate number they know. If they happen to have a copy of the ROFR waiver that Marriott provides, they should include that number, regardless if it is what they actually paid for the week.


----------



## Saintsfanfl

dioxide45 said:


> I think it is rather questionable for the agent to include seller paid costs as Marriott should also be getting the benefits of those seller paid costs if they step in to exercise.



Now that I think about it any legitimate seller paid costs that are on behalf of the buyer actually decrease the ROFR price rather than increase it. For example if a buyer has a contract price of $300k on a house purchase but the seller is to pay $5K in buyer closing costs then the net is $295k.

What some brokers are doing is adding broker commissions into the ROFR price. This is fine if they are stating it in the contract that they are to be paid if Marriott exercises ROFR, which is really a separate term and not part of the actual purchase price. I have see a couple brokers do this. I do not know if Marriott has to pay up if they exercise but if so this seems like the legitimate way of doing it and easier too.


----------



## dioxide45

Saintsfanfl said:


> Now that I think about it any legitimate seller paid costs that are on behalf of the buyer actually decrease the ROFR price rather than increase it. For example if a buyer has a contract price of $300k on a house purchase but the seller is to pay $5K in buyer closing costs then the net is $295k.
> 
> What some brokers are doing is adding broker commissions into the ROFR price. This is fine if they are stating it in the contract that they are to be paid if Marriott exercises ROFR, which is really a separate term and not part of the actual purchase price. I have see a couple brokers do this. I do not know if Marriott has to pay up if they exercise but if so this seems like the legitimate way of doing it and easier too.


The seller paid items would be a credit to the bottom line price. I think what is really in question is for timeshares where the seller paid the broker to unload the week (like a PCC). So I buy the week for $500 but the owner actually paid the listing broker $1500 to get rid of the week. They shouldn't be sending ROFR to Marriott in the amount of $2000. They do this so Marriott doesn't exercise since the seller ends up getting the proceeds from Marriott. I don't think Marriott will send the proceeds check to anyone but their owner of record? They want to keep Marriott's nose out of the gray PCC world that they work in. This certainly isn't on the up and up.


----------



## Saintsfanfl

dioxide45 said:


> The seller paid items would be a credit to the bottom line price. I think what is really in question is for timeshares where the seller paid the broker to unload the week (like a PCC). So I buy the week for $500 but the owner actually paid the listing broker $1500 to get rid of the week. They shouldn't be sending ROFR to Marriott in the amount of $2000. They do this so Marriott doesn't exercise since the seller ends up getting the proceeds from Marriott. I don't think Marriott will send the proceeds check to anyone but their owner of record? They want to keep Marriott's nose out of the gray PCC world that they work in. This certainly isn't on the up and up.



Part of the reason is the ROFR passing but even if it does not pass the broker keeps the $1,500 but the seller is made whole by getting the refund from Marriott. I agree that it is not on the up and up but if the broker put the commission language in the contract where Marriott would be on the hook for commission instead of an increased ROFR price then it results in the exact same thing. Marriott shells out $2,000 and the broker hands the $1,500 back to the seller (presumably). The only difference is the paperwork. One is legitimate and the other is not, but the math is the same.


----------



## JoJo12

Passed ROFR, 3 BR, MOC Lahaina, fixed week 32, 47k. It took 6 days, including the weekend.  Using Syed as my broker.  I put it in the data base.

I will soon join your club of TS owners.  No flaming over our decision, please.  It was a perfect week for us and I am not in the life stage where I want to have to call at just the right time hoping to get a week I need for the grandkids. I did weeks of reading here on TUG before we made our decision how to proceed.  Thanks to all of you for your posts and guidance.

Interesting that we still have a Marriott encore stay to use at MOC, but we will be there as educated owners for the poor salesman that draws us.

Any other week 32 owners, please send me a pm if you want to connect next year.

Pam


----------



## TXTortoise

Now if we could just get a field on the database for unit/floor for the fixed week sales. ;-)

Funny, but my Encore salesman is going to have the same experience with me in February. Will be interesting.


----------



## GregT

Pam, congratulations on your purchase, that is a terrific week to own!  What unit and floor did you purchase?

Best,

Greg


----------



## GM600

I received notice that my Grande Vista 3 bedroom platinum passed ROFR at $4,000. I'm looking forward to having my first Marriott added to my portfolio.


----------



## Beachspace

GM600 said:


> I received notice that my Grande Vista 3 bedroom platinum passed ROFR at $4,000. I'm looking forward to having my first Marriott added to my portfolio.


That's a pretty good price for an annual 3Bed Plat. My annual 3Bed gold passed for around $1600-$1900 (not sure what was on the waiver). Congrats on the purchase!


----------



## StevenTing

Congrats on the MOC week, Pam.  Was this the week that was listed on Redweek?  You said you worked with Syed so maybe it wasn't.  I wouldn't mind a Week 32 but I was looking for 2 weeks when I bought might so ended up with Weeks 22/23.


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## csodjd

Marriott just exercised ROFR on me. Maui Ocean Club (original towers), odd year usage, ocean view, 2-bedroom, $6,500.


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## Hankmoon

csodjd said:


> Marriott just exercised ROFR on me. Maui Ocean Club (original towers), odd year usage, ocean view, 2-bedroom, $6,500.



Is that good or bad? What are the implications when they exercise ROFR? Are you the buyer or seller?


----------



## TXTortoise

Hankmoon said:


> Is that good or bad? What are the implications when they exercise ROFR? Are you the buyer or seller?



Generally speaking...

Seller - Gets what they asked for the week
Buyer - Loses the deal
ROFR - Tends to set the minimum market price for the week, at that point in time. 

Interesting that it's this late in the year, as prior threads suggest Marriott has a budget for ROFR, which may be reduced late in the year.

The last ROFR.net reported sale was last December, which passed at $7000.
Maui Ocean Club - Molokai, Maui and Lanai Wings 12/16/2016 Platinum EOY 2BR Ocean View $7,000.00 Passed 5infam


----------



## dioxide45

csodjd said:


> Marriott just exercised ROFR on me. Maui Ocean Club (original towers), odd year usage, ocean view, 2-bedroom, $6,500.


Please be sure to log it on www.rofr.net.


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## Hankmoon

TXTortoise said:


> Generally speaking...
> 
> Seller - Gets what they asked for the week
> Buyer - Loses the deal
> ROFR - Tends to set the minimum market price for the week, at that point in time.
> 
> Interesting that it's this late in the year, as prior threads suggest Marriott has a budget for ROFR, which may be reduced late in the year.
> 
> The last ROFR.net reported sale was last December, which passed at $7000.
> Maui Ocean Club - Molokai, Maui and Lanai Wings 12/16/2016 Platinum EOY 2BR Ocean View $7,000.00 Passed 5infam



So I guess this means Marriott wanted the deal to be at least $7000.


----------



## csodjd

TXTortoise said:


> Generally speaking...
> 
> Seller - Gets what they asked for the week
> Buyer - Loses the deal
> ROFR - Tends to set the minimum market price for the week, at that point in time.
> 
> Interesting that it's this late in the year, as prior threads suggest Marriott has a budget for ROFR, which may be reduced late in the year.
> 
> The last ROFR.net reported sale was last December, which passed at $7000.
> Maui Ocean Club - Molokai, Maui and Lanai Wings 12/16/2016 Platinum EOY 2BR Ocean View $7,000.00 Passed 5infam


That was sort of what I was banking on in offering $6500. It was close to the $7000 that passed, and late in the year. I also considered that if they exercise, which they did, and don't get it sold quickly, they "eat" the 2018 MF. Allowing it to go through meant they would have gotten the 2018 payment from me. Nonetheless, I was advised yesterday that they were exercising. (I was the buyer.)


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## csodjd

dioxide45 said:


> Please be sure to log it on www.rofr.net.


Done.


----------



## dioxide45

csodjd said:


> That was sort of what I was banking on in offering $6500. It was close to the $7000 that passed, and late in the year. I also considered that if they exercise, which they did, and don't get it sold quickly, they "eat" the 2018 MF. Allowing it to go through meant they would have gotten the 2018 payment from me. Nonetheless, I was advised yesterday that they were exercising. (I was the buyer.)


Marriott won't turn around and sell that week. They will convey it to the DC trust and sell the points allocated to it. It is a big chess game of moving pieces and they either get the MF money from trust owners or they monetize the points and rent available inventory. They won't end up 'eating' the MFs.


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## csodjd

dioxide45 said:


> Marriott won't turn around and sell that week. They will convey it to the DC trust and sell the points allocated to it. It is a big chess game of moving pieces and they either get the MF money from trust owners or they monetize the points and rent available inventory. They won't end up 'eating' the MFs.


So, basically, they buy it from a weeks owner and drop it into their DC points inventory, making one less unit available for a weeks owner to use.


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## Dean

csodjd said:


> So, basically, they buy it from a weeks owner and drop it into their DC points inventory, making one less unit available for a weeks owner to use.


But it also takes away one person vying for a weeks reservation. It likely decreases exchange inventory but doesn't make much difference on direct reservations.


----------



## Hankmoon

csodjd said:


> That was sort of what I was banking on in offering $6500. It was close to the $7000 that passed, and late in the year. I also considered that if they exercise, which they did, and don't get it sold quickly, they "eat" the 2018 MF. Allowing it to go through meant they would have gotten the 2018 payment from me. Nonetheless, I was advised yesterday that they were exercising. (I was the buyer.)



Did you really want it or did you not really care if you got it? If you really wanted it, paying $500 extra over the life of the ownership would have been minimal.


----------



## csodjd

Hankmoon said:


> Did you really want it or did you not really care if you got it? If you really wanted it, paying $500 extra over the life of the ownership would have been minimal.


Good point. And I decided I didn't really care. I was buying it mostly just to gain access to the 13 month reservation window to go along with my OF 2-bedroom Napili. But I realized that, after 2019, my youngest is out of high school and I don't have to worry about scheduling spring break or summer vacation, we can go any time. So, what the heck.


----------



## Saintsfanfl

csodjd said:


> Good point. And I decided I didn't really care. I was buying it mostly just to gain access to the 13 month reservation window to go along with my OF 2-bedroom Napili. But I realized that, after 2019, my youngest is out of high school and I don't have to worry about scheduling spring break or summer vacation, we can go any time. So, what the heck.



If you want access to the 13 month reservation window you can buy any unit and rent it out for above break even or use it as a misc trader.


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## csodjd

Saintsfanfl said:


> If you want access to the 13 month reservation window you can buy any unit and rent it out for above break even or use it as a misc trader.


True. I was after the middle ground... a unit that would be easily rentable, but also one that would be nice to have/use ourselves if we wanted. An OV two-bedroom in the older buildings seemed a good fit for that. Awfully easy to rent that for MF or more, and not awful to stay in or put family into either.


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## Steve Fatula

Passed ROFR. $2.50 per point destinations program.


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## Fasttr

Steve Fatula said:


> Passed ROFR. $2.50 per point destinations program.


Nice....you are the second one in this price range I have read about....way to slip one past the ROFR goalie!!!


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## Steve Fatula

I don't think it was luck, just organized things a little differently.


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## taterhed

Change your name to protect the innocent (steve) and tell us what you did to pass rofr?


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## dioxide45

Steve Fatula said:


> Passed ROFR. $2.50 per point destinations program.


Was it actually submitted at a $2.50 pp valuation? I see a recent entry on www.rofr.net at $2.75 that failed.


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## frank808

taterhed said:


> Change your name to protect the innocent (steve) and tell us what you did to pass rofr?


Wonder if they organized it with all fees included?  Add what marriott charges to enroll the points and it is above the threshold for rofr.

Sent from my SM-N910P using Tapatalk


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## toddc2

*Failed ROFR MOC 2/3 OF EOY (Even) $10k*

I was the purchaser. Broker tells me $12k is the current safe zone


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## csodjd

Just wondering. If you have a deal at, say, $10k and ROFR is exercised, can you simply up your offer to, say, $11k? Or is the seller stuck and they must sell to Marriott at $10k?


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## toddc2

csodjd said:


> Just wondering. If you have a deal at, say, $10k and ROFR is exercised, can you simply up your offer to, say, $11k? Or is the seller stuck and they must sell to Marriott at $10k?



Seller has to sell to Marriott at $10k


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## taterhed

frank808 said:


> Wonder if they organized it with all fees included?  Add what marriott charges to enroll the points and it is above the threshold for rofr.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N910P using Tapatalk


You're probably right...didn't think of that.

And, let's not start the ROFR/ethics discussion please...


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## Saintsfanfl

csodjd said:


> Just wondering. If you have a deal at, say, $10k and ROFR is exercised, can you simply up your offer to, say, $11k? Or is the seller stuck and they must sell to Marriott at $10k?





toddc2 said:


> Seller has to sell to Marriott at $10k



Technically the seller is contractually obligated to sell to Marriott but Marriott would never file a lawsuit if the seller changed their mind and did not follow through on the sale. They would likely say "no problem and thank you" if a seller changed their mind. The problem is that if the seller then went back and prepared another purchase agreement to submit to ROFR for a higher amount it would probably be an indicator of willful fraud, but again, not sure what Marriott would do.


----------



## csodjd

Saintsfanfl said:


> Technically the seller is contractually obligated to sell to Marriott but Marriott would never file a lawsuit if the seller changed their mind and did not follow through on the sale. They would likely say "no problem and thank you" if a seller changed their mind. The problem is that if the seller then went back and prepared another purchase agreement to submit to ROFR for a higher amount it would probably be an indicator of willful fraud, but again, not sure what Marriott would do.


It seems it may be in Marriott's best interest to allow the seller to entertain or make a counter-offer to the prospective buyer. Create something of a bidding war, getting the price up to the highest amount the buyer is willing to pay before Marriott considers whether to exercise its ROFR. The smart play for a seller would be to go back to Marriott and ask for permission to make a counter to the buyer before the ROFR is exercised.


----------



## Fasttr

csodjd said:


> It seems it may be in Marriott's best interest to allow the seller to entertain or make a counter-offer to the prospective buyer. Create something of a bidding war, getting the price up to the highest amount the buyer is willing to pay before Marriott considers whether to exercise its ROFR.


How would this be in Marriott's best interest?


----------



## Saintsfanfl

csodjd said:


> It seems it may be in Marriott's best interest to allow the seller to entertain or make a counter-offer to the prospective buyer. Create something of a bidding war, getting the price up to the highest amount the buyer is willing to pay before Marriott considers whether to exercise its ROFR. The smart play for a seller would be to go back to Marriott and ask for permission to make a counter to the buyer before the ROFR is exercised.



Yeah that does not make any sense at all. Marriott is in this solely to make money. Why would they want to pay more? Would it be in your best interest to pay more than the asking price for a car that you are interested in buying? 

Marriott does not do ROFR out of the kindness of their heart to help out an owner wanting to sell. They do not care one bit about any of that. It is purely to buy a unit for a little as possible and convert it to DC points to resell for a massive profit.


----------



## StevenTing

Saintsfanfl said:


> Yeah that does not make any sense at all. Marriott is in this solely to make money. Why would they want to pay more? Would it be in your best interest to pay more than the asking price for a car that you are interested in buying?
> 
> Marriott does not do ROFR out of the kindness of their heart to help out an owner wanting to sell. They do not care one bit about any of that. It is purely to buy a unit for a little as possible and convert it to DC points to resell for a massive profit.



The only way I can see this benefiting Marriott is that they can point to a strong resale market where their weeks hold their value, even artificially.  i.e. You can buy from Marriott at $30K but look at the resale market, it's at $25K.  For $5k more, you get all of these extra benefits and when you want to exit, there's a strong market for you to sell in.  Maybe I'm just being naive.


----------



## StevenTing

Steve Fatula said:


> Passed ROFR. $2.50 per point destinations program.



Congrats.  I'm jealous.



dioxide45 said:


> Was it actually submitted at a $2.50 pp valuation? I see a recent entry on www.rofr.net at $2.75 that failed.



The 2.75 one was mine.  The way the contract was written, it was $2.75 per point but the seller was going to contribute an additional $1000 toward transfer fee.  since it was only 1000 points, it's as if the net cost of the points were $1.75.  I don't know if MVC considered it a $2.75 or $1.75 per point transaction.  I am trying another transactions with items being presented a little differently but if it goes through, my net cost will be $2.50 plus transfer fees. The devil's in the details.   If they ROFR, they should be paying the seller the equivalent of $6.00 per point.  Win/Win on both sides, at least they way it works in my mind.


----------



## Saintsfanfl

StevenTing said:


> The only way I can see this benefiting Marriott is that they can point to a strong resale market where their weeks hold their value, even artificially.  i.e. You can buy from Marriott at $30K but look at the resale market, it's at $25K.  For $5k more, you get all of these extra benefits and when you want to exit, there's a strong market for you to sell in.  Maybe I'm just being naive.



It could be if they were still pushing weeks. Instead they have been lowering their resale list prices to get the "byproduct" inventory moving. Some salespeople talk negatively about legacy weeks and some won't even mention that buying a week through resales is an option.


----------



## klpca

Saintsfanfl said:


> It could be if they were still pushing weeks. Instead they have been lowering their resale list prices to get the "byproduct" inventory moving. Some salespeople talk negatively about legacy weeks and some won't even mention that buying a week through resales is an option.


Our last two presentations, I have had to specifically asked to buy a deeded week. At Ko Olina the answer was "no" and at NCV they were willing but we had to buy so many points in conjunction with the week that we would have more points than we could use which made it *very* cost prohibitive.


----------



## hangloose

Dean said:


> But it also takes away one person vying for a weeks reservation. It likely decreases exchange inventory but doesn't make much difference on direct reservations.



Good point. Any week Marriott purchases via ROFR, is one less person vying for a legacy weeks reservation. BUT, the also means one less week available to other legacy weeks owners trying to reserve in that season.   This could be painful long term.  While the ratio may still be the same, high priority/demand weeks in floating seasons may suffer. Another reason why 'fixed' is great if it works for your needs.


----------



## Saintsfanfl

klpca said:


> Our last two presentations, I have had to specifically asked to buy a deeded week. At Ko Olina the answer was "no" and at NCV they were willing but we had to buy so many points in conjunction with the week that we would have more points than we could use which made it *very* cost prohibitive.



You can call the resale department directly and buy a week but they do not broker all properties.


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## TXTortoise

Interesting how things have thinned out for resale listings on the Marriott resale site, at least for Maui.  Only one listing for the old and one for the new buildings.

The rarely seen one is a 3BR 8th floor, week 16, in the Napili tower at $76K.  Seller will net, what, $43K?  Bet it would sell quicker, just listed on Redweek at $45-50K due to floor level.

https://www.marriottvacationclub.co...5DA13O0xPk040KmNqviPPTFXXsa8LNZBoCU8YQAvD_BwE


----------



## JIMinNC

TXTortoise said:


> Interesting how things have thinned out for resale listings on the Marriott resale site, at least for Maui.  Only one listing for the old and one for the new buildings.
> 
> The rarely seen one is a 3BR 8th floor, week 16, in the Napili tower at $76K.  Seller will net, what, $43K?  Bet it would sell quicker, just listed on Redweek at $45-50K due to floor level.
> 
> https://www.marriottvacationclub.co...5DA13O0xPk040KmNqviPPTFXXsa8LNZBoCU8YQAvD_BwE



I've noticed the same thing. The drop in inventory started over the summer and has accelerated recently, particularly in Maui. All EOY weeks are gone system-wide. Just a couple months ago there were at least 8 or 10 Maui Ocean Club listings, both annuals and biennials. Now virtually nothing. I can't imagine that sales have picked up that much, that quickly. It has to be a decision by Marriott to not take certain listings any more. The only resort with a lot of listings is Ocean Watch and there is still fairly typical number of listings for Hilton Head, but even Orlando listings appear way down. I remember when we bought our hybrid bundle in 2014 the salesman said it wouldn't be long before they stopped selling resale weeks. I wonder if that may finally be coming to fruition?


----------



## csodjd

Just looking at the ROFR.NET. I see that, in addition to my 2-Bedroom EOY OV Maui Ocean Club older buildings failing at $6,500, a similar ocean front failed at $10k. So, Marriott has exercised its ROFR twice in the past month or so on EOY in the older buildings. Also noted that they exercised on an an EOY OF at $10k, but passed an identical but annual OF at $19k the same month.


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## BJRSanDiego

I occasionally see Marriott weeks that are being given away for free.  I'm wondering if a giveaway is also subject to ROFR?  Anyone with insight into this?


----------



## sb2313

BJRSanDiego said:


> I occasionally see Marriott weeks that are being given away for free.  I'm wondering if a giveaway is also subject to ROFR?  Anyone with insight into this?


If done as a gift, then it should not be subject to rofr or the $95 fee.


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## catharsis

As far as Inventory shown on the site goes, I was told by Resale operations that they have more inventory than is shown on the website.  The problem I guess is finding out what they have or at what price.  

I'm fairly certain that if you ask at a sales office they would be able to provide lots more options for an MOC week.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


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## Marathoner

Passed ROFR at 32K for platinum plus week at Summit Watch.  Same week listed at 49.5K direct on Marriott's resales website.


----------



## MOXJO7282

I just passed ROFR for a MOC 2BDRM OV annual for $13,150 all in. I saw some of the failings so was concerned but happy it made it through.


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## Saintsfanfl

BJRSanDiego said:


> I occasionally see Marriott weeks that are being given away for free.  I'm wondering if a giveaway is also subject to ROFR?  Anyone with insight into this?



I am in the process of giving one away right now and it was not subject to ROFR. They can take one for $1 but not $0.


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## BJRSanDiego

Saintsfanfl said:


> I am in the process of giving one away right now and it was not subject to ROFR. They can take one for $1 but not $0.


Thanks for this info.  I find this extremely interesting.  
I presume that in order to pass, that the owner needs to pay for the closing costs.


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## Saintsfanfl

BJRSanDiego said:


> Thanks for this info.  I find this extremely interesting.
> I presume that in order to pass, that the owner needs to pay for the closing costs.



The buyer can still pay for closing. Closing costs are not considered part of the purchase price and does not have to be included in the "gift". The term used on the contract is "The selling price is GIFTED, exclusive of closing cost". Then the next statement specifies who is paying what on the closing costs.


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## csodjd

Just passed ROFR -- Maui Ocean Club Napili/Lahaina, 2-bedroom, ocean front, EOY, $13,500, buyer paying closing costs.


----------



## JIMinNC

TXTortoise said:


> Interesting how things have thinned out for resale listings on the Marriott resale site, at least for Maui.  Only one listing for the old and one for the new buildings.
> 
> The rarely seen one is a 3BR 8th floor, week 16, in the Napili tower at $76K.  Seller will net, what, $43K?  Bet it would sell quicker, just listed on Redweek at $45-50K due to floor level.
> 
> https://www.marriottvacationclub.co...5DA13O0xPk040KmNqviPPTFXXsa8LNZBoCU8YQAvD_BwE





catharsis said:


> As far as Inventory shown on the site goes, I was told by Resale operations that they have more inventory than is shown on the website.  The problem I guess is finding out what they have or at what price.
> 
> I'm fairly certain that if you ask at a sales office they would be able to provide lots more options for an MOC week.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk



I have now been told by two people - one an external broker and the other a representative inside Marriott Resales - that one reason the Hawaii inventory has disappeared on the Marriott Resales site is Marriott bought those weeks. Supposedly they are also buying units back before they get listed, which is why no new inventory is appearing right now. I can't verify that in any way, but just reporting what I was told.


----------



## catharsis

JIMinNC said:


> I have now been told by two people - one an external broker and the other a representative inside Marriott Resales - that one reason the Hawaii inventory has disappeared on the Marriott Resales site is Marriott bought those weeks. Supposedly they are also buying units back before they get listed, which is why no new inventory is appearing right now. I can't verify that in any way, but just reporting what I was told.


Very easy to check.   Someone who owns a week not currently shown as available on the website should enquire about listing their week with resale operations (which does not in any way commit you to selling to Marriott or anyone else as far as I can recall)

When they tell you that there is a waiting list you will have confirmed that the Marriott resale online list is incomplete.

If anyone could obtain a copy of the list available through a sales office that would be really useful also.

I wonder could one simply ask the resale broker operation for a list of available inventory?.. Express an interest in possibly buying a week?


Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


----------



## Saintsfanfl

I can assure you that there are loads of units that are not online but they are also not taking any listings or buying back, they have plenty of the inventory. For whatever reason the website is either slow to be updated with new list prices or they are just not telling the truth (which happens).


----------



## CalGalTraveler

JIMinNC said:


> one reason the Hawaii inventory has disappeared on the Marriott Resales site is Marriott bought those weeks. Supposedly they are also buying units back before they get listed, which is why no new inventory is appearing right now. .



Are they buying MOC Hawaii to add to their DC points inventory?


----------



## JIMinNC

CalGalTraveler said:


> Are they buying MOC Hawaii to add to their DC points inventory?



That was the implication from the person in Marriott Resales. Again, no independent confirmation. So, take it for what it is.


----------



## Saintsfanfl

CalGalTraveler said:


> Are they buying MOC Hawaii to add to their DC points inventory?



If they are indeed buying it then that is the only thing they do, which is add to the DC. Marriott never buys a week to resell. All of their resales are them acting as the real estate transaction broker between buyer and seller.


----------



## catharsis

Saintsfanfl said:


> I can assure you that there are loads of units that are not online but they are also not taking any listings or buying back, they have plenty of the inventory. For whatever reason the website is either slow to be updated with new list prices or they are just not telling the truth (which happens).


That was my impression also.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


----------



## JIMinNC

Saintsfanfl said:


> I can assure you that there are loads of units that are not online but they are also not taking any listings or buying back, they have plenty of the inventory. For whatever reason the website is either slow to be updated with new list prices or they are just not telling the truth (which happens).



If this is true then why would the sales person at Marriott Resales that I spoke with today (a person who is incented to sell inventory) not offer me anything to buy when I expressed interest in Maui Ocean Club? All she said is hopefully inventory will increase when 2018 maintenance fees are billed. I'm mainly focusing my search on external resales, but used the opportunity to call and inquire with Marriott Resales and to see what their explanation was for the drop in online inventory.

They clearly have inventory in other places - Orlando, Hilton Head, and Myrtle Beach appear the most numerous.


----------



## jeepie

They are showing some, albeit limited, availability. Both MOC and Kauai Beach Club.

https://t.marriottvacationclub.com/resales/buy-weeks.shtml

But, nothing at Waiohai is showing. For what it's worth, when I recently bought a Waiohai week 52 thru them, I was told it was the last one they would be selling. The implication was, they would be exercising ROFR. Who knows if that is true. But, I haven't seen any more of them listed since then. Cheers.


----------



## Saintsfanfl

JIMinNC said:


> If this is true then why would the sales person at Marriott Resales that I spoke with today (a person who is incented to sell inventory) not offer me anything to buy when I expressed interest in Maui Ocean Club? All she said is hopefully inventory will increase when 2018 maintenance fees are billed. I'm mainly focusing my search on external resales, but used the opportunity to call and inquire with Marriott Resales and to see what their explanation was for the drop in online inventory.
> 
> They clearly have inventory in other places - Orlando, Hilton Head, and Myrtle Beach appear the most numerous.



I am not saying they have every unit at every resort, but they certainly have units that are not listed on their site. I know because I have several that do not show up and they are also not taking listings because they have too many. My gut tells me they are changing methods and trying to steer resales to certain units that they want either moved or packaged as a hybrid.

It is likely that they do not have much at MOC but I am not so sure the salesperson you talked to truly has an incentive to sell. I do not know for sure but I do not believe the inside reps that work in the resale office get any commission.


----------



## VacationForever

Saintsfanfl said:


> I am not saying they have every unit at every resort, but they certainly have units that are not listed on their site. I know because I have several that do not show up and they are also not taking listings because they have too many. My gut tells me they are changing methods and trying to steer resales to certain units that they want either moved or packaged as a hybrid.
> 
> It is likely that they do not have much at MOC but I am not so sure the salesperson you talked to truly has an incentive to sell. I do not know for sure but I do not believe the inside reps that work in the resale office get any commission.


That was exactly my experience.  The sales office controls what they offer as a bundle for each DC point level.


----------



## JIMinNC

Saintsfanfl said:


> I am not saying they have every unit at every resort, but they certainly have units that are not listed on their site. I know because I have several that do not show up and they are also not taking listings because they have too many. My gut tells me they are changing methods and trying to steer resales to certain units that they want either moved or packaged as a hybrid.
> 
> It is likely that they do not have much at MOC but I am not so sure the salesperson you talked to truly has an incentive to sell. I do not know for sure but I do not believe the inside reps that work in the resale office get any commission.



Are you saying you have MOC listings that don't show up?

As I said, they definitely have plenty of inventory in many locations, it just appears that for whatever reason, they are no longer taking new listings for the Hawaii properties. All MKO and Waiohai inventory is now gone and all that is available are the two expensive fixed weeks at MOC and two 1BR categories at KBC. This contrasts with the past when almost every view category/unit size was listed for MOC and the other Hawaii resorts. I can't believe that sales have increased so much that they can't keep the Hawaii inventory in stock. Something appears to have changed in their approach to the Hawaii weeks.

It is also interesting that you are being told they have too many listings. Their sales people I've talked to in the last three months have said just the opposite - inventory is "historically low" across all categories.


----------



## Wahoo

Just received notice that my Ocean Pointe 2br Platinum oceanside purchase just passed ROFR at $3,801.  I really didn't think I'd make it through ROFR at that price so am pleasantly surprised.


----------



## Saintsfanfl

JIMinNC said:


> Are you saying you have MOC listings that don't show up?



Not at all, I am saying I have other properties that are both not showing up, and they are stating they are loaded with plenty of inventory. I do not believe that inventory is historically low right now. It very well may have been 3 months ago, but not right now. It is historically very high. Sept is a very slow selling season across multiple sales offices which slows the resale week sales down. On top of this the Hurricane pretty much killed the already slow Florida sales offices. They move more inventory in Florida than any other place and this caused a halt to the steady move of the inventory.

There are other reasons why inventory does not show on the resale site besides no current units to list. Sometimes things are taken down because of price notice changes and it takes a while for it to come back up. If they have 50 of a given unit type not under contract and the price changes they suddenly have zero because they have to contact the owners listing and see if they are ok with the price decrease.

For the first time ever I witnessed the resale department willing to negotiate a price with a buyer rather than the "take it or leave it" list price but I believe a real salesperson at a sales office was the one pushing the buttons.


----------



## Seaport104

Wahoo said:


> Just received notice that my Ocean Pointe 2br Platinum oceanside purchase just passed ROFR at $3,801.  I really didn't think I'd make it through ROFR at that price so am pleasantly surprised.



WOW! Where did you manage to find one of those even at that price! Congrats!!


----------



## Beachspace

Seaport104 said:


> WOW! Where did you manage to find one of those even at that price! Congrats!!


My research has shown me about $5,000 for a unit like this and $6500-$7500 for Oceanfront. Gold is about $2000-$3000 so he got a good deal, about 30% off in my opinion depending on who pays closing costs. 

Good job! Singer island is a nice relaxing place for families/couples and OP has lots of activities every day.


----------



## dioxide45

Wahoo said:


> Just received notice that my Ocean Pointe 2br Platinum oceanside purchase just passed ROFR at $3,801.  I really didn't think I'd make it through ROFR at that price so am pleasantly surprised.


Be sure to add it to www.rofr.net.


----------



## Wahoo

dioxide45 said:


> Be sure to add it to www.rofr.net.


Will do.



Seaport104 said:


> WOW! Where did you manage to find one of those even at that price! Congrats!!


Thanks!  I snagged it on eBay.  The auction ended right around the time of all the hurricane mayhem last month, which probably scared some potential buyers away.  Still, I was surprised it didn't go for more, especially since the seller covered all closing costs.  I was also surprised it made it through ROFR, as the lowest posted sale on ROFR.net was $8k, and one failed to pass ROFR at $8500. One from 10 years ago was even listed as failing ROFR at $23,000, although I find that somewhat hard to believe.


----------



## dioxide45

Wahoo said:


> Will do.
> 
> 
> Thanks!  I snagged it on eBay.  The auction ended right around the time of all the hurricane mayhem last month, which probably scared some potential buyers away.  Still, I was surprised it didn't go for more, especially since the seller covered all closing costs.  I was also surprised it made it through ROFR, as the lowest posted sale on ROFR.net was $8k, and one failed to pass ROFR at $8500. One from 10 years ago was even listed as failing ROFR at $23,000, although I find that somewhat hard to believe.


Before 2007, we paid about $7000 for a gold 2BR Grande Vista. These go for less than $1000 these days and were at one time going for free or close to it. The market took a huge hit after the real estate market crash and never really recovered.


----------



## willfly13

GregT said:


> **** 5/1/16 - This link to the current, active ROFR database is added with the OP's permission:  ROFR Experiences (www.rofr.net) ****
> 
> All,
> 
> I have had a few PMs asking me to compute ROFR metrics for various offers, which I am happy to do, and also asking for the history of this _unofficial _metric.   The following thread is where we collected the data (such as it is).
> 
> I've taken the Points Value spreadsheet that TUGgers helped compile a couple of years back, and computed the ROFR metric for all weeks.
> 
> Accordingly, the attached is a hypothetical price of what should clear ROFR, if the metric can predict a ROFR exercise.
> 
> Please note, this approach is imperfect and I would hate to see a TUGger increase their bid based solely on this -- please make an offer price of what the week is worth to you.   And please consult with a broker on what has been passing ROFR lately, they will have the most current information.
> 
> Anyone can compute their own ROFR metric:
> 
> 1) Start with the DC Points that the underlying week is worth  (example: 3,000 DC Points)
> 2) Multiply #1 by $10 per point (representing how much Marriott can sell the related points for if they ROFR it and deposit to the Trust -- example:  3,000 * $10/point = $30,000)
> 3) Take your Offer Price ($5,000?) and divide it by the result of #2 (example: $5,000 / $30,000 = 16.6%)
> 4) The resulting percentage will likely be between 5% - 35%.
> 
> My theory is that weeks where #4 is less than 23% have a greater probability of not passing ROFR than if #4 is greater than 23%.  It is based on the linked thread up above.
> 
> I welcome comments, corrections and more recent data.  Good luck!
> 
> Best,
> 
> Greg


Hi Greg,
I found this helpful, but wonder how much has changed in 18 months.  This was posted in May of 2016, right?  Any new info on ROFR?

Linda


----------



## RussellSun

Is there a database where we can see what has passed and failed ROFR? I saw a spreadsheet on TUG a while back but I don't recall where anymore.


----------



## 1st Class

Welcome to TUG.  

Here's the link from the 1st page of this thread http://www.rofr.net/


----------



## Steve Fatula

dioxide45 said:


> Was it actually submitted at a $2.50 pp valuation? I see a recent entry on www.rofr.net at $2.75 that failed.



Sort of. It was more than $2.50 with seller paying *all* buyer and seller closing costs, transfer fees, etc. Thus, it was whatever per point that comes out to. But the cost to me for the points only was $2.50 and essentially I paid the usual costs via a "higher" offer. My understanding is that if Marriott exercised the ROFR, they would pay the seller the much higher cost.


----------



## toddc2

csodjd said:


> Just passed ROFR -- Maui Ocean Club Napili/Lahaina, 2-bedroom, ocean front, EOY, $13,500, buyer paying closing costs.


Wow, that's a great price! I'm a little irritated as I'm going through ROFR in the original towers for $12k + costs after Marriott exercised at $10k about two months ago. 2BR OF EOY.


----------



## StevenTing

Finally after 4 tries, I passed ROFR on 1000 points.

I passed at $3.30 per point before fees.  Previously failed at $2.50, $2.75, and $3.00.  Almost lost this transaction too as the seller called Marriott to see if they wanted to buy before they signed the contract. They offered $3.00 per point, matching my offer however the net amount received by seller would have been more. I upped my offer to $3.30 and after waiting a little over 3 weeks I got the Waiver yesterday. 

This will put me at Presidential and I think I’m done acquiring weeks and points now.  Total costs including fees and closing will put me at $6800. 

This purchase breaks down into the following:
$3300 for Points
$3000 for Enrollment/Junk Fees
$500 for Closing costs.


----------



## Fasttr

StevenTing said:


> Finally after 4 tries, I passed ROFR on 1000 points.
> 
> I passed at $3.30 per point before fees.  Previously failed at $2.50, $2.75, and $3.00.  Almost lost this transaction too as the seller called Marriott to see if they wanted to buy before they signed the contract. They offered $3.00 per point, matching my offer however the net amount received by seller would have been more. I upped my offer to $3.30 and after waiting a little over 3 weeks I got the Waiver yesterday.
> 
> This will put me at Presidential and I think I’m done acquiring weeks and points now.  Total costs including fees and closing will put me at $6800.
> 
> This purchase breaks down into the following:
> $3300 for Points
> $3000 for Enrollment/Junk Fees
> $500 for Closing costs.


Congrats on the purchase.  Good to know that MVC will actually buy back points even if at a lowly $3 per point.  I was told at a fairly recent sales pitch that they were now doing this on occasion when approched.

Now that you are Presidential, you need to crank up your tweet count!!!!


----------



## taterhed

nice!


----------



## bazzap

A very good result.


----------



## vacationtime1

StevenTing said:


> Finally after 4 tries, I passed ROFR on 1000 points.
> 
> I passed at $3.30 per point before fees.  . . . Total costs including fees and closing will put me at $6800.
> 
> This purchase breaks down into the following:
> $3300 for Points
> $3000 for Enrollment/Junk Fees
> $500 for Closing costs.



So the cost per point was $6.80, all in.

About half the price of purchasing retail.

But to get there, one must be diligent, focused, and play perfect chess.  Well done.


----------



## taterhed

vacationtime1 said:


> So the cost per point was $6.80, all in.
> 
> About half the price of purchasing retail.
> 
> But to get there, one must be diligent, focused, and play perfect chess.  Well done.



perfect chess and $0.56 a point MF's


----------



## jeepie

vacationtime1 said:


> So the cost per point was $6.80, all in.
> 
> About half the price of purchasing retail.
> 
> But to get there, one must be diligent, focused, and play perfect chess.  Well done.


Agreed. And it made perfect sense considering the small number of points required to attain Presidential level.
I would point out, however, that it is easy to purchase a bundle straight from Marriott at about the same cost per point (if you want more than 1,000 Points, that is). There are other threads on this, but last week I was offered a bundle for effectively $7.08 per point with a slightly lower MF, and additional benefits such as MR points, Plus points, and further MR points by putting the purchase on a Marriott (or Ritz or even better, SPG) credit card. Btw, I declined...already have plenty of weeks and DC points. Waiting for an “amnesty” offer” (free or low cost enrollment of some currently ineligible weeks). Ymmv of course. Cheers.


----------



## GregT

Steven, congrats on the purchase and enjoy the Presidential!!  

You’ve been on quite a tear in 2017 and nice work on the additions!

Best,

Greg


----------



## l0410z

Deleted.. in rereading my post and looking at others, I didn't add anything of value.


----------



## GregT

l0410z said:


> Deleted.. in rereading my post and looking at others, I didn't add anything of value.



If that was the criteria, I would be below 100 posts.


----------



## toddc2

Well, slow response from Marriott but this MOC 2/3 EOY OF passed ROFR at $12k.

I wish Marriott was as concerned with resale value when they re-purchased my $29k 1/2 OV developer week for $8k a couple of years ago...


----------



## TXTortoise

Todd, do you know when the ROFR was submitted?  I have one that went in Monday before Thanksgiving and hope to hear this week.  Previous one was less than 10 days.


----------



## StevenTing

vacationtime1 said:


> So the cost per point was $6.80, all in.
> 
> About half the price of purchasing retail.
> 
> But to get there, one must be diligent, focused, and play perfect chess.  Well done.



That's correct.  $6.80 all in.



jeepie said:


> Agreed. And it made perfect sense considering the small number of points required to attain Presidential level.
> I would point out, however, that it is easy to purchase a bundle straight from Marriott at about the same cost per point (if you want more than 1,000 Points, that is). There are other threads on this, but last week I was offered a bundle for effectively $7.08 per point with a slightly lower MF, and additional benefits such as MR points, Plus points, and further MR points by putting the purchase on a Marriott (or Ritz or even better, SPG) credit card. Btw, I declined...already have plenty of weeks and DC points. Waiting for an “amnesty” offer” (free or low cost enrollment of some currently ineligible weeks). Ymmv of course. Cheers.



I was sitting at 9225 points before the purchase.  Had I been at 9250, I would have tried to negotiate an odd size package with Marriott but in my case, 750 wouldn't have been enough.

One could say that I "overpaid" by $1000 since I didn't do 1500 points to maximize the value of the junk fees but I didn't want to pay an additional $1650 for those 500 points.  Now I just sit here waiting for closing documents.


----------



## michael49

Just received notice that Marriott has declined ROFR on a 2 bedroom winter (Red Season) villa at Desert Springs II. 
Sales price is $2,950 with closing costs of an additional $775. Total cost: $3,725. Guess we will be reactivating our old II account!


----------



## toddc2

TXTortoise said:


> Todd, do you know when the ROFR was submitted?  I have one that went in Monday before Thanksgiving and hope to hear this week.  Previous one was less than 10 days.



Sorry for the slow response! It's difficult for me to say when it was submitted. I signed the contract 7 Oct 2017 and didn't hear back until 28 Nov 2017.


----------



## TXTortoise

toddc2 said:


> Sorry for the slow response! It's difficult for me to say when it was submitted. I signed the contract 7 Oct 2017 and didn't hear back until 28 Nov 2017.



No worries, turns out my two just cleared ROFR within 10 business days of submission in Nov and Dec.  I'll post details once the titles transfer.


----------



## zora

Just rec'd notice from Global Resort Transfer that my purchase of an EOY-even Ko Olina mountain view at $2,499 passed.  
Suzanne.

Edit to add:  Seller paid closing costs and yes, dioxide45, I added this to the ROFR list.  Thank you SO much for creating and maintaining this list.  It is much appreciated.


----------



## Jayco29D

Does anyone know how often Vistana is exercising ROFR on Westin Princeville?


----------



## dioxide45

Jayco29D said:


> Does anyone know how often Vistana is exercising ROFR on Westin Princeville?


See the response you got in the ROFR thread in the Vistana forum.

https://tugbbs.com/forums/index.php...starwood-rofr-transactions-here.196786/page-5


----------



## GregT

zora said:


> Just rec'd notice from Global Resort Transfer that my purchase of an EOY-even Ko Olina mountain view at $2,499 passed.
> Suzanne.



Congrats!!!  Ko Olina is a lovely property and that’s a great price!!!  Enjoy it!


----------



## mjm1

zora said:


> Just rec'd notice from Global Resort Transfer that my purchase of an EOY-even Ko Olina mountain view at $2,499 passed.
> Suzanne.
> 
> Edit to add:  Seller paid closing costs and yes, dioxide45, I added this to the ROFR list.  Thank you SO much for creating and maintaining this list.  It is much appreciated.



Suzanne, congratulations on your purchase. We love Ko Olina and wish you many memorable vacations there. Happy traveling.

Best regards.

Mike


----------



## zora

Thank you everyone.  It was a pleasant surprise.  Suzanne.


----------



## Bodie

jeepie said:


> Agreed. And it made perfect sense considering the small number of points required to attain Presidential level.
> I would point out, however, that it is easy to purchase a bundle straight from Marriott at about the same cost per point (if you want more than 1,000 Points, that is). There are other threads on this, but last week I was offered a bundle for effectively $7.08 per point with a slightly lower MF, and additional benefits such as MR points, Plus points, and further MR points by putting the purchase on a Marriott (or Ritz or even better, SPG) credit card. Btw, I declined...already have plenty of weeks and DC points. Waiting for an “amnesty” offer” (free or low cost enrollment of some currently ineligible weeks). Ymmv of course. Cheers.




Hello,  You seem to have been offered a similar deal to us which is a 1/2 OV Gold Aruba at $23,300 and 2050 annual pts.  That would put us at Presidential Level and Platinum Marriott Rewards.  I can't wheel and deal the way others on this thread do with ROFR, etc. Just want to keep it simple.
What are your thoughts on this? Good and/or bad.   You see to have a good grasp of all things MVC.   Thanks and Happy New Year.


----------



## jeepie

Bodie said:


> Hello,  You seem to have been offered a similar deal to us which is a 1/2 OV Gold Aruba at $23,300 and 2050 annual pts.  That would put us at Presidential Level and Platinum Marriott Rewards.  I can't wheel and deal the way others on this thread do with ROFR, etc. Just want to keep it simple.
> What are your thoughts on this? Good and/or bad.   You see to have a good grasp of all things MVC.   Thanks and Happy New Year.


Bodie, the Good: Presidential; Platinum; Simple. The questions I would ask: 1. How many DC Points does the Gold Aruba generate if you elect points? 2. Would you stay at Aruba sometimes (not necessary, but a plus)? 3. What is the total Cost per DC Point, assuming you elect the points? 4. What is the Maintenance Fee for this purchase? 4. What is the value to you of the MR points and/or Plus Points being offered? 5. Can you put it on a credit card (preferably one I mentioned) and pay it off in full without incurring finance charges? And Happy New Year to you as well.


----------



## Bodie

Thanks, Jeepie.   Here's the answers 1) 2050 annual DC pts2) Sometimes 3) If I understand this question, based on the purchase price the point value is around $13.90 per 4) Maintenance Fee 2018 $1453.00 4) MR points (one time) 185,000; Plus Points (one time) 2000 5) Would put it on a Marriott Premiere for 18 payments after which I get another 2000 Plus Points (Interest 12.99) and then pay it off.  A straight point purchase of 1500 (I actually only need 1350 but, MVC doesn't sell anything less than 1500 DC)  would be $20,890 with no deeded week vs  $23,300 with 2050 DC pts and a deeded week.  And,  as you pointed out, Presidential and Platinum.  Would like to know what you think. Again, thank you, for your time.


----------



## Fasttr

Bodie said:


> Thanks, Jeepie.   Here's the answers 1) 2050 annual DC pts2) Sometimes 3) If I understand this question, based on the purchase price the point value is around $13.90 per 4) Maintenance Fee 2018 $1453.00 4) MR points (one time) 185,000; Plus Points (one time) 2000 5) Would put it on a Marriott Premiere for 18 payments after which I get another 2000 Plus Points (Interest 12.99) and then pay it off.  A straight point purchase of 1500 (I actually only need 1350 but, MVC doesn't sell anything less than 1500 DC)  would be $20,890 with no deeded week vs  $23,300 with 2050 DC pts and a deeded week.  And,  as you pointed out, Presidential and Platinum.  Would like to know what you think. Again, thank you, for your time.


Some things to consider....
1.  For some reason, when they set up the DC, the Caribbean resorts were not allocated very many points, and because of that, they are not very efficient points generators.  The MF's on the pure trust points for 2018 is $0.553 a point.  The MF per point on the proposed Aruba week is $0.709 ($1453 / 2050 points) which is not very good.

2.  If you only purchased the 1500 pure Trust points that you need to reach Presidential status, your annual outlay (at 2018 MF's) would be $623.50 cheaper than owning the week.  That amounts to a lot of saved money over time if you merely purchased just the 1500 Trust points that you need.

3.  The rental rate for additional points is approx. $0.55 per point....so lets say the true "value" of the 2000 Plus Points they would give you to finance your purchase over 18 months is approx. $1,100.  Now lets assume you put down 10% and finance the remaining 90% ($20,970) over that 18 months at 12.99% interest.  The interest you would pay over that 18th months is around $2,222.  The "value" trade off is just not there to finance it with MVC.

4.  Your cost per point on the Aruba week is around $11.37 vs your cost per point on the pure Trust points at approx. $13.90 as quoted by you.  That said, it would not take too many years paying the higher annual MF's on the Aruba week to make that cost per point savings on your initial Aruba week purchase no longer make sense.

Not trying to push you in any direction, but to me, I think there are better deals out there than purchasing this Aruba week if your primary reason is to get more DC points and to get to Presidential status.  If only given these 2 options, I would just buy the 1500 Trust points and move on.


----------



## Bodie

Fasttr said:


> Some things to consider....
> 1.  For some reason, when they set up the DC, the Caribbean resorts were not allocated very many points, and because of that, they are not very efficient points generators.  The MF's on the pure trust points for 2018 is $0.553 a point.  The MF per point on the proposed Aruba week is $0.709 ($1453 / 2050 points) which is not very good.
> 
> 2.  If you only purchased the 1500 pure Trust points that you need to reach Presidential status, your annual outlay (at 2018 MF's) would be $623.50 cheaper than owning the week.  That amounts to a lot of saved money over time if you merely purchased just the 1500 Trust points that you need.
> 
> 3.  The rental rate for additional points is approx. $0.55 per point....so lets say the true "value" of the 2000 Plus Points they would give you to finance your purchase over 18 months is approx. $1,100.  Now lets assume you put down 10% and finance the remaining 90% ($20,970) over that 18 months at 12.99% interest.  The interest you would pay over that 18th months is around $2,222.  The "value" trade off is just not there to finance it with MVC.
> 
> 4.  Your cost per point on the Aruba week is around $11.37 vs your cost per point on the pure Trust points at approx. $13.90 as quoted by you.  That said, it would not take too many years paying the higher annual MF's on the Aruba week to make that cost per point savings on your initial Aruba week purchase no longer make sense.
> 
> Not trying to push you in any direction, but to me, I think there are better deals out there than purchasing this Aruba week if your primary reason is to get more DC points and to get to Presidential status.  If only given these 2 options, I would just buy the 1500 Trust points and move on.


----------



## Bodie

Wow.   Thank you so much.  I didn't even consider some of these things.  This has been very helpful.


----------



## gdstuart

michael49 said:


> Just received notice that Marriott has declined ROFR on a 2 bedroom winter (Red Season) villa at Desert Springs II.
> Sales price is $2,950 with closing costs of an additional $775. Total cost: $3,725. Guess we will be reactivating our old II account!



New to this, so pardon the newbie Q's...

Michael, is this week available to enroll in Dest Points?  I infer that you bought the week and will be using it as a Weeks property, not Dest Points.

How does one tell if a given resale is eligible for Dest Points conversion?


----------



## dioxide45

gdstuart said:


> New to this, so pardon the newbie Q's...
> 
> Michael, is this week available to enroll in Dest Points?  I infer that you bought the week and will be using it as a Weeks property, not Dest Points.
> 
> How does one tell if a given resale is eligible for Dest Points conversion?


No resales weeks are eligible for Destinations Points enrollment unless purchase through Marriott resales as part of a hybrid package.


----------



## gdstuart

jeepie said:


> ...
> 5. Can you put it on a credit card (preferably one I mentioned) and pay it off in full without incurring finance charges?



jeepie, we are being offered deal where they told us that if we kept the loan through to its end at 12.99% we would get a 2500-


dioxide45 said:


> No resales weeks are eligible for Destinations Points enrollment unless purchase through Marriott resales as part of a hybrid package.



Thanks, I had forgotten that detail.  I did do a a conversion of a week at Monarch that we bought thru Marriott Resales in about 2008.  What's the magic date for conversions?  Sometime in 2010?


----------



## dioxide45

gdstuart said:


> jeepie, we are being offered deal where they told us that if we kept the loan through to its end at 12.99% we would get a 2500-
> 
> 
> Thanks, I had forgotten that detail.  I did do a a conversion of a week at Monarch that we bought thru Marriott Resales in about 2008.  What's the magic date for conversions?  Sometime in 2010?


Weeks purchased on the external resale market after 6/20/2010.


----------



## michael49

--Michael, is this week available to enroll in Dest Points? I infer that you bought the week and will be using it as a Weeks property, not Dest Points.--
Dioxide is, of course, correct. The week is not eligible (at least at this point) to be enrolled. We will be resurrecting our non-corporate II account. We intend to use the DSII week roughly every other year; renting it out in the off years or letting our children use the week. It should also be a good trader in II.


----------



## jeepie

gdstuart said:


> jeepie, we are being offered deal where they told us that if we kept the loan through to its end at 12.99% we would get a 2500-


I would add up the total interest and then determine the cost per point. My hunch is the plus points would cost way more than the value (I would value plus points at perhaps $.55 to $.60 per point, as that is the value of rented points, which are similar). Cheers.


----------



## TXTortoise

Week 7-8, 3BR on 3rd floor in MOC Lahaina Tower just sold on RedWeek.  Weeks started at $75K and were at $68K when marked 'Sold'.  Hoping buyer is on here and will post on ROFR.net.

This is only the 2nd sale I've seen of winter weeks since starting to track those weeks this time last year.  Few new ads either. 

Week 7, 3BR 11th Floor is still listed at $85K. ;-)


----------



## GregT

TXTortoise said:


> Week 7-8, 3BR on 3rd floor in MOC Lahaina Tower just sold on RedWeek.  Weeks started at $75K and were at $68K when marked 'Sold'.  Hoping buyer is on here and will post on ROFR.net.
> 
> This is only the 2nd sale I've seen of winter weeks since starting to track those weeks this time last year.  Few new ads either.
> 
> Week 7, 3BR 11th Floor is still listed at $85K. ;-)


Wow -- did you have any contact with Seller or Broker?  Would love to know what that cleared at.  Thanks very much!

Best,

Greg


----------



## TXTortoise

Greg, they were listed by Brad Canton.  I believe he's a broker, but can't find anything but a Brad Canton, Maui Landscaping, on Linked-In.

Looks like he still has Week 6 listed. https://www.redweek.com/posting/R733512


----------



## gdstuart

TXTortoise said:


> Week 7-8, 3BR on 3rd floor in MOC Lahaina Tower just sold on RedWeek.  Weeks started at $75K and were at $68K when marked 'Sold'.  Hoping buyer is on here and will post on ROFR.net.
> 
> This is only the 2nd sale I've seen of winter weeks since starting to track those weeks this time last year.  Few new ads either.
> 
> Week 7, 3BR 11th Floor is still listed at $85K. ;-)



Somebody out there please tell me how anyone in their right mind would plunk down 68K, or 75K, or 85K for a week that I can buy on Marriott.com, Expedia, Orbitz, Hotels.com, etc. right now for about $3500 (just to stay for that one week, of course).  You'd have to stay there every year for 19+ years to break even, and that assumes the MF is zero which of course it's not.  I'm all for buying a resale week for $1 or even $1000, but I just do not understand the value proposition for spending upwards of 50K-85K on a timeshare week.  And you can't even convert to DC points!  What am I missing, other than "there's no accounting for taste"?


----------



## JIMinNC

gdstuart said:


> Somebody out there please tell me how anyone in their right mind would plunk down 68K, or 75K, or 85K for a week that I can buy on Marriott.com, Expedia, Orbitz, Hotels.com, etc. right now for about $3500 (just to stay for that one week, of course).  You'd have to stay there every year for 19+ years to break even, and that assumes the MF is zero which of course it's not.  I'm all for buying a resale week for $1 or even $1000, but I just do not understand the value proposition for spending upwards of 50K-85K on a timeshare week.  And you can't even convert to DC points!  What am I missing, other than "there's no accounting for taste"?



I can’t address the wisdom of spending that much, but I can address that you will not find a MOC Lahaina/Napili Villas 3BR oceanfront for $3500/week on Marriott.com, Expedia, Orbitz, etc. The $500 prices in your PDF are for island or garden view studios in the original towers. A 3BR OF condo with full kitchen during prime time on Maui would probably be over double that, maybe triple. Also, the listed resale weeks are fixed weeks so you are guaranteed the same high demand week every year. 

You won’t find MOC weeks for $1 anywhere.


----------



## taterhed

gdstuart said:


> Somebody out there please tell me how anyone in their right mind would plunk down 68K, or 75K, or 85K for a week that I can buy on Marriott.com, Expedia, Orbitz, Hotels.com, etc. right now for about $3500 (just to stay for that one week, of course).  You'd have to stay there every year for 19+ years to break even, and that assumes the MF is zero which of course it's not.  I'm all for buying a resale week for $1 or even $1000, but I just do not understand the value proposition for spending upwards of 50K-85K on a timeshare week.  And you can't even convert to DC points!  What am I missing, other than "there's no accounting for taste"?



I strongly suggest you don't look at the Hyatt weeks next door....you'll lose your mind!


----------



## csodjd

gdstuart said:


> Somebody out there please tell me how anyone in their right mind would plunk down 68K, or 75K, or 85K for a week that I can buy on Marriott.com, Expedia, Orbitz, Hotels.com, etc. right now for about $3500 (just to stay for that one week, of course).  You'd have to stay there every year for 19+ years to break even, and that assumes the MF is zero which of course it's not.  I'm all for buying a resale week for $1 or even $1000, but I just do not understand the value proposition for spending upwards of 50K-85K on a timeshare week.  And you can't even convert to DC points!  What am I missing, other than "there's no accounting for taste"?


It's kind of an applies and oranges comparison. And there is a certain inherent value, meaning your $75k cost (+/-) is not $75k lost. If, 10 years later, you can sell it for $65k, it cost you $10k, not $75k. And if 10 years later you can ell it for $85k, well...


----------



## Nelsonian777

I just want to piggyback on Steven Ting's information he posted last week.  I too have had two DC point contracts for 1500 points fail ROFR last month, one at $2.88/pt and the other at $3.00/pt.  I will try again this month at the $3.30/pt level and hope for an ROFR waiver this time.


----------



## JIMinNC

Nelsonian777 said:


> I just want to piggyback on Steven Ting's information he posted last week.  I too have had two DC point contracts for 1500 points fail ROFR last month, one at $2.88/pt and the other at $3.00/pt.  I will try again this month at the $3.30/pt level and hope for an ROFR waiver this time.



Just be sure you notice how Steven structured his transaction. The actual price that was submitted to Marriott was a purchase price of $6,800 for 1000 points ($6.80/per point), with the *seller* paying all closing costs and the $3000 Marriott transfer fee. See the discussion in posts #29 through #36 in this thread: https://tugbbs.com/forums/index.php...rchase-via-the-secondary-market.267570/page-2

So if you try your transaction again at $3.30/pp with you, the buyer, paying the other fees (as is customary), there may be a good chance that will fail just like your $2.88/pt and $3.00/pt offers.


----------



## StevenTing

Just an FYI that I structured the same transaction to Marriott at $3.00 per point, $6500 all in and Marriott did not waive.  They exercised their right and took the contract at $6500.


----------



## JIMinNC

StevenTing said:


> Just an FYI that I structured the same transaction to Marriott at $3.00 per point, $6500 all in and Marriott did not waive.  They exercised their right and took the contract at $6500.



That’s surprising since it cost them $6.50/pt. Do you know for sure that the seller netted the full $6.50 from MVC?

ROFR seems so random. I like things to fall within a logical framework, but what passes and what fails seems to fit no real pattern.


----------



## JIMinNC

We just got the word this afternoon that we passed ROFR at $8,000 for an EOY-Odd 2BR Ocean View at Maui Ocean Club, original. It was incredibly hard to find EOY-Odd OV units available. Been working on making this happen since October.

This is our second ROFR pass in the last few weeks. We are also buying our first HGVC, a 2BR 7000 point annual at HGVC Sea World.

I have added both to the ROFR.net database.


----------



## StevenTing

JIMinNC said:


> That’s surprising since it cost them $6.50/pt. Do you know for sure that the seller netted the full $6.50 from MVC?
> 
> ROFR seems so random. I like things to fall within a logical framework, but what passes and what fails seems to fit no real pattern.



I just heard back from the broker. The seller did Net the full $6.50 less broker commissions. The seller was more than happy because they ended up getting about twice as much as they were originally expecting because of the way we wrote the contract.


----------



## JIMinNC

StevenTing said:


> I just heard back from the broker. The seller did Net the full $6.50 less broker commissions. The seller was more than happy because they ended up getting about twice as much as they were originally expecting because of the way we wrote the contract.



That's really surprising they would pay $6.50/pt. That's over half of what they charge retail for points (assuming most point buys get a small discount off the $13+ price tag). I'm wondering if someone at MVC goofed, not really realizing how your contract was worded, and exercised before they realized the mistake. Then when your second one came through they didn't make the same mistake twice. That's the only reason I could think they would exercise at that price. Hard to figure out sometimes.


----------



## VacationForever

StevenTing said:


> I just heard back from the broker. The seller did Net the full $6.50 less broker commissions. The seller was more than happy because they ended up getting about twice as much as they were originally expecting because of the way we wrote the contract.


Was this a different seller from your $6.80 one and presumably happened before you got yours to pass at $6.80?  On a recent post in another thread, someone said they contacted Marriott about selling their contracts (deeded weeks and DC points) and the person received more for their DC points than what they paid.  If so, Marriott may be offering to buy back at somewhere between $6.50 to $6.80.  I suspect Marriott is doing buy back case by case.  But still, it is good news for those who may want to turn in their DC points down the road when they no longer use them.


----------



## StevenTing

JIMinNC said:


> That's really surprising they would pay $6.50/pt. That's over half of what they charge retail for points (assuming most point buys get a small discount off the $13+ price tag). I'm wondering if someone at MVC goofed, not really realizing how your contract was worded, and exercised before they realized the mistake. Then when your second one came through they didn't make the same mistake twice. That's the only reason I could think they would exercise at that price. Hard to figure out sometimes.



My guess is they goofed because I suspect most people at MVC reviewing these are not lawyer types. 



VacationForever said:


> Was this a different seller from your $6.80 one and presumably happened before you got yours to pass at $6.80?  On a recent post in another thread, someone said they contacted Marriott about selling their contracts (deeded weeks and DC points) and the person received more for their DC points than what they paid.  If so, Marriott may be offering to buy back at somewhere between $6.50 to $6.80.  I suspect Marriott is doing buy back case by case.  But still, it is good news for those who may want to turn in their DC points down the road when they no longer use them.



This was a different seller.  This was the transaction before my successful one.  But it was with the same broker.  She was surprised that they exercised.


----------



## Hankmoon

csodjd said:


> It's kind of an applies and oranges comparison. And there is a certain inherent value, meaning your $75k cost (+/-) is not $75k lost. If, 10 years later, you can sell it for $65k, it cost you $10k, not $75k. And if 10 years later you can ell it for $85k, well...



I also can’t comment on whether it is worth spending $75K upfront for a MOC Napili/Lahaina 3 bedroom oceanfront. However, there will be a huge resale value left over after 10+ years and units like this would rent for over $2000+ per night on the open market, if you could find it. We own at Aulani and their 1 bedrooms rent for $1500 in peak season without a prime oceanfront view and it’s on Oahu, not as prime an island as the other ones. So I image a 3 bedroom oceanfront in Maui would cost a fortune to rent per night. I also imagine the experience of staying in an oceanfront 3 bedroom in a high quality resort like MOC Napili/Lahaina is priceless to people who can afford it.


----------



## taterhed

Marriott just exercised ROFR on a Grande Vista EOY 3bdr Platinum  I was trying to buy @ $995.

Figured that was going to happen......
I'll keep looking.


----------



## Saintsfanfl

taterhed said:


> Marriott just exercised ROFR on a Grande Vista EOY 3bdr Platinum  I was trying to buy @ $995.
> 
> Figured that was going to happen......
> I'll keep looking.



That is truly a fantastic price.

I got exercised on a 2BR Habour Lake Platinum for $1,750 that I was selling. As usual we are approaching the busy season and they are exercising ROFR more than usual.


----------



## taterhed

Yeah, I should have 'bumped' it to 1500....but didn't know the broker


----------



## Saintsfanfl

taterhed said:


> Yeah, I should have 'bumped' it to 1500....but didn't know the broker



There is nothing wrong with asking if they are adding in any commission fees to come to a higher gross price or if they are submitted it at the $995 but I am not a fan of paying more than the arrived Fair Market Value. I have seen Marriott pass on $100 and exercise on $1000 and there are always more units to buy and the prices continue to go down and not up. Never pay more to pass unless it is a unit that is hard to find and you really want.


----------



## chemteach

Marriott just exercised ROFR on a shadow ridge enclaves 2BR deluxe platinum for $3000.  I was bummed.  When is slow season?  I figured I'd try again maybe next fall...


----------



## Steve Fatula

chemteach said:


> Marriott just exercised ROFR on a shadow ridge enclaves 2BR deluxe platinum for $3000.  I was bummed.  When is slow season?  I figured I'd try again maybe next fall...



Darn. For me too maybe, have a $2,000 DSV2 RED pending ROFR.


----------



## dioxide45

New year, perhaps new budget and money to spend on ROFR. Wait till year end when they have burned through their stash.


----------



## chemteach

dioxide45 said:


> New year, perhaps new budget and money to spend on ROFR. Wait till year end when they have burned through their stash.


That's what I was thinking...  Still bummed though .I was looking forward to owning in Palm desert. Used to exchange in with Westin but they never deposit spring weeks any more.


----------



## Steve Fatula

chemteach said:


> That's what I was thinking...  Still bummed though .I was looking forward to owning in Palm desert. Used to exchange in with Westin but they never deposit spring weeks any more.



I'll post back once I hear about ROFR on mine. My realtor says they just closed one for the same price, $2,000 so hopeful. Sometimes, it seems like luck. The way I look at it, there's a lot of people trying to sell that cannot. So, I am at a minimum doing them a favor by making Marriott buy them back. If they exercise enough of them, they may not want any more. I don't mind submitting offers on a dozen properties if it takes that many.

Palm Desert is my favorite place to go. We've gone there around 20 years in a row and continue to love it in February. Hard to beat the weather in the US around that time.


----------



## GregT

chemteach said:


> Marriott just exercised ROFR on a shadow ridge enclaves 2BR deluxe platinum for $3000.  I was bummed.  When is slow season?  I figured I'd try again maybe next fall...


Those are hard to find - I searched for a long time to find one for sale and paid $4K for it so I think you are close to what will pass.

Plus they are supposed to expand Shadow Ridge one of these years and when they do, hopefully Rofr will slow down.

Good hunting!

Best,

Greg


----------



## TXTortoise

brianfox said:


> Update on the Marriott Waiohai purchase.
> 
> PASSED ROFR today!
> Two ANNUAL island view deeds for $5500 each.  That is same asking price that EOY had one year ago.
> 
> I saw these on Redweek.  Since I started that purchase, at least one more annnual island view is up for sale right at $5000.  There are two more at just under $6000.
> I didn't try to talk owner down on price; $5500 is very reasonable in my book.
> Ocean View are still asking over 2x.



I have a seller that just wants out of MFs and while i'd like to buy it dirt cheap, I'm guessing it wouldn't pass ROFR. ;-)  

ROFR.net still has some pretty high values, so debating whether $2K would pass for EOY or $3-4K for EY.  

What I haven't been able to find is a data point of Marriott exercising ROFR on Waiohai.

Thoughts?


----------



## JIMinNC

TXTortoise said:


> I have a seller that just wants out of MFs and while i'd like to buy it dirt cheap, I'm guessing it wouldn't pass ROFR. ;-)
> 
> ROFR.net still has some pretty high values, so debating whether $2K would pass for EOY or $3-4K for EY.
> 
> What I haven't been able to find is a data point of Marriott exercising ROFR on Waiohai.
> 
> Thoughts?



I can't find which thread it was in, but I recall someone posting a few weeks ago that they had passed ROFR on a EOY Waiohai at $2500. But my recollection is it was from an eBay seller and it sounded like the seller had bundled some upfront fees and/or closing or other costs into the ROFR submittal price. If that's the case, the "real" ROFR price that Marriott waived on was greater than $2500, but he got it for $2500 as his cost.

I was also considering an EOY Waiohai to go with our just purchased EOY MOC, and actually considered a month or so ago going ahead and trying to buy something so we could have the current owner reserve it for 2019 to match with our new MOC, but opted to wait and book our Kauai week for 2019 with a combination of our legacy Barony elected points and some rented points. I didn't want to jump the gun and buy a Waiohai in case I found a good deal on another MOC unit before our next use year in 2021.


----------



## taterhed

TXTortoise said:


> I have a seller that just wants out of MFs and while i'd like to buy it dirt cheap, I'm guessing it wouldn't pass ROFR. ;-)
> 
> ROFR.net still has some pretty high values, so debating whether $2K would pass for EOY or $3-4K for EY.
> 
> What I haven't been able to find is a data point of Marriott exercising ROFR on Waiohai.
> 
> Thoughts?



Good luck with that.  They are still buying higher than that (assuming MF's are current).  

My guess is that currently, an MF Waiohai EY is over $5k and about $2.5+ on the EOY's.  
Just a guess.


----------



## Steve Fatula

My suggestion is talk to a timeshare realtor who does a lot of sales. While rofr.net is a good resource, it's not confirmed data either and it is far from complete. Actual sales data on a more widescale basis to me is more useful. It still would not provide any guarantee of course, but data is always a good thing. PM me if you want a reference.


----------



## MOXJO7282

Maui Ocean Club Napili OF Odd EOY passed. Total all-in price of $15k.  Nice added value is the prime Feb check-in date the seller secured for me.


----------



## Saintsfanfl

TXTortoise said:


> I have a seller that just wants out of MFs and while i'd like to buy it dirt cheap, I'm guessing it wouldn't pass ROFR. ;-)
> 
> ROFR.net still has some pretty high values, so debating whether $2K would pass for EOY or $3-4K for EY.
> 
> What I haven't been able to find is a data point of Marriott exercising ROFR on Waiohai.
> 
> Thoughts?



Any attempt at nailing down an ROFR threshold is an exercise in futility. Even when you think you have it, you do not. They will exercise on $1,000 and a month later pass on $100. There are many variables that go into it. 

I know from experience that one pattern is maintenance fees already paid after the turn of the year vs fees not yet paid in December. One way to greatly increase the chance of passing ROFR is having a unit that starts usage past a year that remains unpaid.


----------



## JIMinNC

Saintsfanfl said:


> Any attempt at nailing down an ROFR threshold is an exercise in futility. Even when you think you have it, you do not. They will exercise on $1,000 and a month later pass on $100. There are many variables that go into it.
> 
> I know from experience that one pattern is maintenance fees already paid after the turn of the year vs fees not yet paid in December. One way to greatly increase the chance of passing ROFR is having a unit that starts usage past a year that remains unpaid.



I'm not sure I follow you. Can you restate? Are you saying it's more likely to pass ROFR if the Maintenance fees are unpaid?


----------



## taterhed

Agree with @Saintsfanfl  :  Apparently Mother Marriott is apparently not fond of exercising ROFR with MF's unpaid and usage committed or deposited vs a fully paid unit with unassigned occupancy available for transfer.


----------



## Saintsfanfl

JIMinNC said:


> I'm not sure I follow you. Can you restate? Are you saying it's more likely to pass ROFR if the Maintenance fees are unpaid?



Yes, it is more likely to pass ROFR if the usage is gone and the billed fees are unpaid. I believe this is why there are so many that pass towards the end of the year and so many that are exercised after the turn of the year when the usage and fees align a year out.


----------



## Slinger

Any guesses as to the current ROFR threshold for an annual 3bed at Grand Chateau?


----------



## dioxide45

Saintsfanfl said:


> Yes, it is more likely to pass ROFR if the usage is gone and the billed fees are unpaid. I believe this is why there are so many that pass towards the end of the year and so many that are exercised after the turn of the year when the usage and fees align a year out.


I think this goes along with how long it takes them to end up conveying the weeks to the trust. It is probably about a six to nine month process from when they exercise to when they actually have points they can sell. Three months probably to close on the ROFR transaction and then another six as they convey the weeks to the trust and bundle them all together in points conveyances. So at the end of this year if they have 2019 usage available and the MFs for 2019 unpaid, they really don't want to take that as it will be September or later of 2019 before they can sell it but they are having to pay the MFs for 2019. They won't be able to sell it with 2019 usage and have to take the MF hit on the transaction.


----------



## Theiggy

dioxide45 said:


> I think this goes along with how long it takes them to end up conveying the weeks to the trust. It is probably about a six to nine month process from when they exercise to when they actually have points they can sell. Three months probably to close on the ROFR transaction and then another six as they convey the weeks to the trust and bundle them all together in points conveyances. So at the end of this year if they have 2019 usage available and the MFs for 2019 unpaid, they really don't want to take that as it will be September or later of 2019 before they can sell it but they are having to pay the MFs for 2019. They won't be able to sell it with 2019 usage and have to take the MF hit on the transaction.


New to timesharing. I am in the process of buying Marriott’s Aruba Surf Club EOY - passed ROFR on 2/8/18 at $1400. I just had an offer accepted on an EOY Marriott Harbour Lake for $450. I’m holding my breath it passes!!!!


----------



## Dean

Theiggy said:


> New to timesharing. I am in the process of buying Marriott’s Aruba Surf Club EOY - passed ROFR on 2/8/18 at $1400. I just had an offer accepted on an EOY Marriott Harbour Lake for $450. I’m holding my breath it passes!!!!


I just had my HL week added to my MVC account.  Annual HL Platinum $811 all in including closing with seller paying Maint fees and I get the 2018 week.


----------



## Theiggy

Dean said:


> I just had my HL week added to my MVC account.  Annual HL Platinum $811 all in including closing with seller paying Maint fees and I get the 2018 week.


That’s great! Hoping mine passes too!!!


----------



## frank808

Dean said:


> I just had my HL week added to my MVC account.  Annual HL Platinum $811 all in including closing with seller paying Maint fees and I get the 2018 week.


I'm surprised that passed.  Had willowridge plat taken for $1250 and had to reimburse for 2018 usage.  

A manor club sequel plat did not pass for $1 all in.  

Sent from my SM-T217S using Tapatalk


----------



## Saintsfanfl

Dean said:


> I just had my HL week added to my MVC account.  Annual HL Platinum $811 all in including closing with seller paying Maint fees and I get the 2018 week.



I just had one exercised for $1,750 with no free usage. See what I mean by not being able to predict it?


----------



## Dean

Saintsfanfl said:


> I just had one exercised for $1,750 with no free usage. See what I mean by not being able to predict it?


No doubt.  My opinion is the main purpose of ROFR for most timeshare companies is actually to create confusion and uncertainty.  That's absolutely true with DVC.  There are other variables I'm sure beyond just the financial metrics of priced, dues, closing, season, view type and the like.  While I've never seen direct evidence for this, I think it's also possible they might exercise on someone who's communicated with them about a retail purchase within a timeframe as well hoping that will kick them to a retail purchase.


----------



## ruddski

I have had an MVC timeshare for years and switched to points when they first started allowing. I have a week in Grande Vista that is worth 2175 points. I was on vacation this weekend and attended a presentation where they offered a bundle that would get me just over 7000 points to executive level  $30,000 with everything closing etc for 2500 points and a property for $9500 everything included that has a 2375 point value giving me 4875 total and just enough for Executive level. I have been thinking of getting more points but have been wary of secondary markets and how they will work with MVC as I only use for points. While I do not think it's a terrible deal I am considering rescinding as it will cost a lot per month and if I can't pay off early would make no sense at all. My first question is does it seem like a decent deal, and my second is as it was done as 2 separate purchases, has anyone tried rescinding the larger direct point purchase and keeping the bundle that was added as that is where the actual deal is? Keeping the property for 2375 points would also get me to the select level which would make me Gold level at Marriott rewards.


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## Fasttr

ruddski said:


> I have had an MVC timeshare for years and switched to points when they first started allowing. I have a week in Grande Vista that is worth 2175 points. I was on vacation this weekend and attended a presentation where they offered a bundle that would get me just over 7000 points to executive level  $30,000 with everything closing etc for 2500 points and a property for $9500 everything included that has a 2375 point value giving me 4875 total and just enough for Executive level. I have been thinking of getting more points but have been wary of secondary markets and how they will work with MVC as I only use for points. While I do not think it's a terrible deal I am considering rescinding as it will cost a lot per month and if I can't pay off early would make no sense at all. My first question is does it seem like a decent deal, and my second is as it was done as 2 separate purchases, has anyone tried rescinding the larger direct point purchase and keeping the bundle that was added as that is where the actual deal is? Keeping the property for 2375 points would also get me to the select level which would make me Gold level at Marriott rewards.


$30K for 4,875 points equates to $6.15 per point, which is pretty good for these bundle packages.  They usually come in at around $7 a point +/- a few cents.  

As for attempting to rescind on the points and letting the week purchase proceed, in hopes you may slip one past the goalie and still have MVC enroll the week, that seems chancy to me.  You very well may just end up with an overpriced resale week that they will not allow to be enrolled since you did not go through with your points purchase as part of the bundle.


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## ruddski

it was $30000 plus $9500 for the 4875 points which is 8.1 dollars per point. Was thinking it is a purchase through Marriott so not sure if that automatically give me the point option, I also received 300,000 rewards points


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## ruddski

ruddski said:


> it was $30000 plus $9500 for the 4875 points which is 8.1 dollars per point. Was thinking it is a purchase through Marriott so not sure if that automatically give me the point option


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## Fasttr

Sorry.....I just read "$30K with everything" and glossed over the cost for the week.  $8.10 per point is not a great bundle price.  Unless you want to be brave and try your tricky stuff, I would walk on this deal.


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## jeepie

The other red flag to me is that you might be financing this purchase. Considering the after tax financing cost, this does not sound prudent to me. Similar (and better) offers are always around. Rescind, put those payments into a separate account as necessary, then pull the trigger when you can pay cash for an offer of perhaps $7 all in (I just passed on one for $6.80...good deal, just wasn’t ready to do it unless they would throw in enrollment of several post 2010 ineligible weeks). Better yet, put the purchase on a Chase Sapphire Reserve, SPG, or Marriott card, then pay the full balance when due. Best of luck.


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## VacationForever

ruddski said:


> My first question is does it seem like a decent deal, and my second is as it was done as 2 separate purchases, has anyone tried rescinding the larger direct point purchase and keeping the bundle that was added as that is where the actual deal is? Keeping the property for 2375 points would also get me to the select level which would make me Gold level at Marriott rewards.



You cannot rescind the points and keep the week enrolled.  The week actually takes longer to close than the points and if you don't have the points purchase, it will not enroll after closing of the week purchase.


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## Seagila

frank808 said:


> Had willowridge plat taken for $1250 and had to reimburse for 2018 usage.



Sold my Annual Platinum Willow Ridge for $1,250 inclusive of closing and transfer costs with buyer reimbursing me for 2018 usage. Passed ROFR with Marriott signing the waiver on 01/11/18. Added to ROFR.NET

They must just flip a coin on some of these transactions.


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## frank808

Seagila said:


> Sold my Annual Platinum Willow Ridge for $1,250 inclusive of closing and transfer costs with buyer reimbursing me for 2018 usage. Passed ROFR with Marriott signing the waiver on 01/11/18. Added to ROFR.NET
> 
> They must just flip a coin on some of these transactions.


No rhyme or reason to rofr.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


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## Jayco29D

dioxide45 said:


> Or they can't sell Aruba as DC Trust Points. I think this may be why we see Aruba at a lower ROFR threshold.



I suspect Marriott is having trouble selling Aruba and St Kitts because they are currently being offered as enrolled deeded resale weeks in the $25K - $30K range and come with 4000+ points per year. Not a bad deal for getting an oceanview week convertible to DC Points.


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## Jayco29D

Dean said:


> No doubt.  My opinion is the main purpose of ROFR for most timeshare companies is actually to create confusion and uncertainty.  That's absolutely true with DVC.  There are other variables I'm sure beyond just the financial metrics of priced, dues, closing, season, view type and the like.  While I've never seen direct evidence for this, I think it's also possible they might exercise on someone who's communicated with them about a retail purchase within a timeframe as well hoping that will kick them to a retail purchase.



I think this is a very skeptical view. DVC is actually very predictable if you follow the timeshare news. I do not think any of the major branded timeshare companies are trying to create confusion. The fact that they do not behave as Tuggers want them to behave does not mean they are purposely trying to create confusion. The problem is Tuggers are very price sensitive, sometimes down to pennies. If you look at the big picture, the trends are not confusing at all. Big companies are not concerned about pennies since they have super intelligent and strategic folks looking at the big picture. Tuggers (in general) take a very short term view. I find it ridiculous to worry about a $100 price difference yet when I made an offer on a DVC contract, the owner countered by $100. So silly. Of course, I agreed. That contract has now gone up by $20 per point in just a short time. I had no clue whether it would increase and it seemed expensive at the time, yet I thought squabbling over $100 was silly. Big picture thinking is critical.


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## Jayco29D

Fasttr said:


> Sorry.....I just read "$30K with everything" and glossed over the cost for the week.  $8.10 per point is not a great bundle price.  Unless you want to be brave and try your tricky stuff, I would walk on this deal.



Bundled pricing for MVC is in the $7 - $8 per point range. I just inquired and all the offers came in this range. Plus they offered me 2500 - 5000 one time bonus points depending on the program.


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## Dean

Jayco29D said:


> I think this is a very skeptical view. DVC is actually very predictable if you follow the timeshare news. I do not think any of the major branded timeshare companies are trying to create confusion. The fact that they do not behave as Tuggers want them to behave does not mean they are purposely trying to create confusion. The problem is Tuggers are very price sensitive, sometimes down to pennies. If you look at the big picture, the trends are not confusing at all. Big companies are not concerned about pennies since they have super intelligent and strategic folks looking at the big picture. Tuggers (in general) take a very short term view. I find it ridiculous to worry about a $100 price difference yet when I made an offer on a DVC contract, the owner countered by $100. So silly. Of course, I agreed. That contract has now gone up by $20 per point in just a short time. I had no clue whether it would increase and it seemed expensive at the time, yet I thought squabbling over $100 was silly. Big picture thinking is critical.


They are somewhat predictable within a range but I can tell you for certain the main goal is to drive people to retail,  not to buy buy "cheaply" under ROFR.  They consistently make more money on retail than they do on resale on a per point basis.  I can tell you for certain that the unpredictability, or appearance of unpredictability, is a large part of the plan.  But they have to use good fiscal policies so yes, you can predict somewhat within a range.  But even more than described here, the story of one contract being taken and another basically identical one or better one passing have been everywhere over the years.


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## Jayco29D

Dean said:


> They are somewhat predictable within a range but I can tell you for certain the main goal is to drive people to retail,  not to buy buy "cheaply" under ROFR.  They consistently make more money on retail than they do on resale on a per point basis.  I can tell you for certain that the unpredictability, or appearance of unpredictability, is a large part of the plan.  But they have to use good fiscal policies so yes, you can predict somewhat within a range.  But even more than described here, the story of one contract being taken and another basically identical one or better one passing have been everywhere over the years.



Of course they do not want people to buy "cheaply." That is the purpose of ROFR for all timeshare companies. Maybe they have a quota or a budget for buy backs and that is why some pass and some don't at the same price. Maybe they know the names of folks who keep trying to lowball them and perhaps they are rejecting those deals sometimes. If a deal passes within a few percentage points of another deal, that is still predictable within a range. I think Tuggers are wanting corporations to behave in a predictable and beneficial manner and that is unrealistic.


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## ChiKate

Just submitted ROFR request for waiver on a Mountainside Fixed Week 7. Fingers crossed that Marriott doesn't have interest in buying pricier fixed weeks!!


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## chemteach

ChiKate said:


> Just submitted ROFR request for waiver on a Mountainside Fixed Week 7. Fingers crossed that Marriott doesn't have interest in buying pricier fixed weeks!!


Good luck!


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## TXTortoise

ChiKate said:


> Just submitted ROFR request for waiver on a Mountainside Fixed Week 7. Fingers crossed that Marriott doesn't have interest in buying pricier fixed weeks!!



Price?  I can’t imagine it won’t go through.  No week 7 on ROFR.net and I've only seen one listed...though obviously there are a bunch there as it's not a fixed unit like Maui.

I've often wondered, has Marriott ever taken anything over $20k in the last few years.


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## Theiggy

Update as of today-  Marriott exercised ROFR on the Harbour Lake plat EOY I was trying to buy for $450. Dean- where did you pick up yours? Wondering if there are any more to be had!


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## Dean

Jayco29D said:


> Of course they do not want people to buy "cheaply." That is the purpose of ROFR for all timeshare companies. Maybe they have a quota or a budget for buy backs and that is why some pass and some don't at the same price. Maybe they know the names of folks who keep trying to lowball them and perhaps they are rejecting those deals sometimes. If a deal passes within a few percentage points of another deal, that is still predictable within a range. I think Tuggers are wanting corporations to behave in a predictable and beneficial manner and that is unrealistic.


The issue for ROFR is simply to encourage people to buy retail, nothing more or less.  Obviously there are moving parts but it is that simple.  Certainly the more they have to spend to buy resale, the more uncertainty they can inject into the equation and the more smoke and mirrors they can put in place; the more people will buy retail.



Theiggy said:


> Update as of today-  Marriott exercised ROFR on the Harbour Lake plat EOY I was trying to buy for $450. Dean- where did you pick up yours? Wondering if there are any more to be had!


Ebay.  Sorry you didn't make it through.  I had a GV Annual Platinum for $551 with free closing they took last year else I wouldn't even have gotten the HL.


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## Jayco29D

Dean said:


> They are somewhat predictable within a range but I can tell you for certain the main goal is to drive people to retail,  not to buy buy "cheaply" under ROFR.  They consistently make more money on retail than they do on resale on a per point basis.  I can tell you for certain that the unpredictability, or appearance of unpredictability, is a large part of the plan.  But they have to use good fiscal policies so yes, you can predict somewhat within a range.  But even more than described here, the story of one contract being taken and another basically identical one or better one passing have been everywhere over the years.



Here’s another theory. If someone calls into Disney or Marriott asking to buy a particular resort, then perhaps they are more likely to buy that resort back at what appears to be a random time or for a random price. 

Last year, I was on the wait list for VGF and I got it after they bought it back from someone else. 

For Marriott, I was close to buying a hybrid package that included a Desert Springs or a Grand Vista plus DC Points (but I decided against that for now). Marriott told me they only had one Grande Vista week available at that moment. They probably need to buy back those weeks for hybrid packages, I assume.


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## Dean

Jayco29D said:


> Here’s another theory. If someone calls into Disney or Marriott asking to buy a particular resort, then perhaps they are more likely to buy that resort back at what appears to be a random time or for a random price.
> 
> Last year, I was on the wait list for VGF and I got it after they bought it back from someone else.
> 
> For Marriott, I was close to buying a hybrid package that included a Desert Springs or a Grand Vista plus DC Points (but I decided against that for now). Marriott told me they only had one Grande Vista week available at that moment. They probably need to buy back those weeks for hybrid packages, I assume.


General subjective evidence would NOT suggest they target those who've contacted them and buy back selectively from ROFR.  But they could if they wanted.  I'd add that if one knows enough and is already planning to buy resale, it's best not to contact them or go through a tour for other reasons.


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## JIMinNC

Jayco29D said:


> For Marriott, I was close to buying a hybrid package that included a Desert Springs or a Grand Vista plus DC Points (but I decided against that for now). Marriott told me they only had one Grande Vista week available at that moment. They probably need to buy back those weeks for hybrid packages, I assume.



The weeks Marriott uses for the hybrid packages are not, to the best of my knowledge, ever weeks they have bought back. The weeks sold by Marriott as resale weeks are just that - resale weeks that they are brokering for owners who want to sell. It is my understanding that when Marriott buys a week back through ROFR, all of those weeks go into the MVC Trust to support points inventory for sale.


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## Saintsfanfl

/\ This is true.


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## Jayco29D

JIMinNC said:


> The weeks Marriott uses for the hybrid packages are not, to the best of my knowledge, ever weeks they have bought back. The weeks sold by Marriott as resale weeks are just that - resale weeks that they are brokering for owners who want to sell. It is my understanding that when Marriott buys a week back through ROFR, all of those weeks go into the MVC Trust to support points inventory for sale.



How do you know this? And why would they only buy back weeks for the Trust yet sell weeks for hybrid packages? They are selling many different weeks right now not just the two I mentioned. Where are they getting all that inventory?


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## TXTortoise

It does make sense if you see Marriott using the resale listings as a way to sell points without a cash outlay. They don't have to buy the weeks and pay MFs on them while in the Trust, but by bundling them they are selling Trust Points which might not be sold.  At the same time they are making profit/commission on the resale week at 40%. I haven't done the numbers, but that 40% helps close the distance between the $7-8 Hybrid points cost and $12-13 retail points cost.


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## Jayco29D

TXTortoise said:


> It does make sense if you see Marriott using the resale listings as a way to sell points without a cash outlay. They don't have to buy the weeks and pay MFs on them while in the Trust, but by bundling them they are selling Trust Points which might not be sold.  At the same time they are making profit/commission on the resale week at 40%. I haven't done the numbers, but that 40% helps close the distance between the $7-8 Hybrid points cost and $12-13 retail points cost.



I am just wondering how folks know all these things. Do some of you have an inside link to Marriott’s senior management who explain how resale weeks and the Trust work?


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## TXTortoise

In most cases, it's a lot of community knowledge and experiential data over a whole bunch of years.....and once you've read a lot of messages on here you get a sense of different folks credibility and knowledge, and factor that in.

That said, I don't think anyone will say 'it's exactly that way', as it is Marriott and with that big a bureaucracy, even they have process consistency issues. ;-)


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## JIMinNC

Jayco29D said:


> How do you know this? And why would they only buy back weeks for the Trust yet sell weeks for hybrid packages? They are selling many different weeks right now not just the two I mentioned. Where are they getting all that inventory?



I bought our Barony week through Marriott Resales and talked to them in the past about Maui before buying third party. Our Barony purchase was from a couple in Ohio, brokered by Marriott Resales. Same would have been the case for the Maui week had we done that. Any owner who wants to sell just contacts Marriott Resales and they will list it in exchange for a 40% commission. That is where they get all the inventory.

I guess I have no knowledge that they NEVER resale a week acquired through ROFR, but if they did that often, I think someone on TUG would have reported that they bought the week from Marriott direct.

The exception might be Aruba and St Kitts weeks sold in those places. Those may be weeks ROFR’d by MVC since they can’t go in the Trust.


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## Fasttr

Jayco29D said:


> How do you know this? And why would they only buy back weeks for the Trust yet sell weeks for hybrid packages? They are selling many different weeks right now not just the two I mentioned. Where are they getting all that inventory?


This is where they are getting all that inventory....  https://www.marriottvacationclub.com/resales/index.shtml

Its also not coincidental that the week pricing they offer in the hybrid packages is equal to the pricing listed on the resale weeks if purchased alone.  MVC makes profit on the points sold in the hybrid deal and they also make profit (40% commission) on the resale of the week sold via the hybrid sale.

If they buy a week back via ROFR, they can make far more money by putting that week into the Trust and sell the underlying points at $11-$12 per point after discounts.  That type of Trust inventory acquisition is far cheaper than building new resorts.


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## Jayco29D

I understand all this but the complicated explanations on TUG get awfully confusing. It seems quite simple. Marriott buys back through ROFR and resells the week at higher prices either in a hybrid package that converts to points, or as a standalone week that converts to points or puts the week’s points into the Trust.


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## TXTortoise

Marriott is not reselling weeks they own, only those listed by owners paying a 40% commission.  Anything they buy back is going into the Trust as points, as noted at the end of your post.


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## Fasttr

Jayco29D said:


> I understand all this but the complicated explanations on TUG get awfully confusing. It seems quite simple. Marriott buys back through ROFR and resells the week at higher prices either in a hybrid package that converts to points, or as a standalone week that converts to points or puts the week’s points into the Trust.


Sounds like you feel you know what's happening...and for you, that's all that matters.


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## Jayco29D

TXTortoise said:


> Marriott is not reselling weeks they own, only those listed by owners paying a 40% commission.  Anything they buy back is going into the Trust as points, as noted at the end of your post.



Someone gave a very confusing explanation that seemed to imply they have unsold weeks lying around that they are reselling. That was quite confusing. But regardless, it does not seem to matter much.


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## Jayco29D

Fasttr said:


> Sounds like you feel you know what's happening...and for you, that's all that matters.



No, I actually do not think it matters much. I think all this discussion about Marriott’s strategy and where they get their weeks and how they resell them is sort of useless.


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## Fasttr

Jayco29D said:


> No, I actually do not think it matters much. I think all this discussion about Marriott’s strategy and where they get their weeks and how they resell them is sort of useless.


If you removed all the useless things we banter back and forth around here...what would we have left?


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## Jayco29D

I suspect everyone is partially right and partially wrong because when I log into my accounts or talk to the various companies I own with, some things are right and some things are wrong. TUG offers some helpful information and some pure speculation and hypotheses. Plus everything is constantly changing.


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## Saintsfanfl

Marriott does not sell weeks and this is well known. They do act as a real estate broker and this makes it appear like they sell certain weeks but they are only a broker.  It might seem logical that they would buy a week and resell it but they just do not do this. It could possibly be due to legal conflicts but I am only guessing. I know there are some states that they do not even act as a real estate broker in.


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## JIMinNC

Jayco29D said:


> I understand all this but the complicated explanations on TUG get awfully confusing. It seems quite simple. Marriott buys back through ROFR and resells the week at higher prices either in a hybrid package that converts to points, or as a standalone week that converts to points or puts the week’s points into the Trust.



The bottom line is that we on TUG have seen no evidence whatsoever that Marriott resells the weeks they buy back via ROFR (at least at US resorts). That doesn't mean it has never happened, but I do think we would have seen examples posted if it did.

What we *DO* know from Marriott Vacations Worldwide's quarterly investor conference calls and annual 10K reports is they view their inventory repurchase programs as an inexpensive way to reacquire inventory for the trust. Their quarterly discussion to investors almost always mentions something about the "continued success of our inventory re-purchase program" and they say this allows them to repurchase inventory for addition to the trust for less than the cost of new construction.


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## Jayco29D

JIMinNC said:


> The bottom line is that we on TUG have seen no evidence whatsoever that Marriott resells the weeks they buy back via ROFR (at least at US resorts). That doesn't mean it has never happened, but I do think we would have seen examples posted if it did.
> 
> What we *DO* know from Marriott Vacations Worldwide's quarterly investor conference calls and annual 10K reports is they view their inventory repurchase programs as an inexpensive way to reacquire inventory for the trust. Their quarterly discussion to investors almost always mentions something about the "continued success of our inventory re-purchase program" and they say this allows them to repurchase inventory for addition to the trust for less than the cost of new construction.



I do not understand why this matters. I am confused. Why does this matter if they buy back weeks for Trust inventory or to resell them as enrolled weeks in hybrid packages or a standalone week? So where do they get inventory for selling in hybrid packages and as standalone weeks? They are still selling Grande Vista, Desert Springs 1, Aruba, St Kitts, Newport Coast and others, some in hybrid packages, some as stand alone weeks. I would have assumed those properties were sold out. It seems like you can get almost anything you want from Marriott Vacation Club. Does this mean they never sold out?

Forgive me if this sounds like a repeat question but no one has clearly answered this yet.


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## TXTortoise

All those weeks, with the possible exception of Aruba, are units they are selling for owners, whether individually or in a hybrid with Points.  They do not sell Marriott owned weeks, except where the Points program is not offered, e.g., Spain.


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## JIMinNC

Jayco29D said:


> I do not understand why this matters. I am confused. Why does this matter if they buy back weeks for Trust inventory or to resell in hybrid packages or a standalone week? So where do they get inventory for selling in hybrid packages and as standalone weeks? They are still selling Grande Vista, Desert Springs 1, Aruba, St Kitts and others, some in hybrid packages, some as stand alone weeks. I would have assumed those properties were sold out. Does this mean they never sold out?



Here is where they get the inventory for hybrid packages:
https://www.marriottvacationclub.com/resales/sell-weeks.shtml

They have an active resale brokerage operation. When you buy a hybrid package, you are actually doing two separate transactions, with two separate closing costs, etc. You are buying the Points direct from Marriott and they are the seller, you are the buyer. But the week you buy in a hybrid is a totally separate transaction between another owner as the seller and you as the buyer, with Marriott Resales acting as the broker.

So Marriott is not still selling Grande Vista, Desert Springs 1, etc.  They are acting as a broker between an owner who is wanting to sell and a buyer. The resorts listed for sale on the Marriott Resales site are listings on behalf of owners, just like any other third party broker site. As I said several posts up, when we bought our hybrid in 2014, the sales contract was between us as the buyer and a couple in Ohio as the seller. The separate points acquisition was between Marriott as the seller and us.

As TXTortoise just said, the Aruba and St. Kitts weeks are different. They cannot put those into the Trust because it is a US real estate trust. So in that case, those are likely weeks that were never previously sold or have been re-acquired through ROFR, foreclosure, direct re-purchase, etc.


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## Jayco29D

TXTortoise said:


> All those weeks, with the possible exception of Aruba, are units they are selling for owners, whether individually or in a hybrid with Points.  They do not sell Marriott owned weeks, except where the Points program is not offered, e.g., Spain.



My question is why do it matter where the inventory comes from to any of us? Why do Tuggers worry about this at all?


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## JIMinNC

Jayco29D said:


> My question is why do it matter where the inventory comes from to any of us? Why do Tuggers worry about this at all?



Some people just want to know what time it is. Others want to know how the watch works, at least in part because it helps them understand a bit better how accurate the time displayed on the watch might be.


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## Jayco29D

JIMinNC said:


> Some people just want to know what time it is. Others want to know how the watch works, at least in part because it helps them understand a bit better how accurate the time displayed on the watch might be.



Ha, ha. Good answer!


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## Dean

Jayco29D said:


> My question is why do it matter where the inventory comes from to any of us? Why do Tuggers worry about this at all?


It may not matter where it comes from but where it comes from affects the options and availability.


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## SueDonJ

Jayco29D said:


> My question is why do it matter where the inventory comes from to any of us? Why do Tuggers worry about this at all?



Back when the DC was introduced at midnight on 6/20/10 with a only a generic blurb and the legal documents posted to the website, we were able to make sense of it fairly quickly only because for years prior we'd been dissecting in minute detail every aspect of ownership and relating it to other known points systems.

Back before the DC was introduced and Weeks were the only game in town, we were able to reach educated guesses about future resorts and pricing only because TUG discussions delved into the minute details of every resort that had come online prior.

During every TUG discussion that delves into the legal aspects - whether from the owners' perspectives or from Marriott's - there are knowledgeable TUGgers who share their experiences as well as the particulars contained in their docs, which helps all of us understand the obligations and rights of both us and Marriott.

Etc etc etc ...

'Where the inventory comes from for Marriott Resales' might appear to be a useless factoid that doesn't much matter, of course, but at some point it may be THE puzzle piece that solves the entire 'How MVW manipulates inventory' puzzle.  I'm sure that I'll never need to know at least half of what I've learned on TUG, but I'm just as sure that the other half is what helps me get the absolute most out of my ownership.  Not everybody wants to know everything all the time but it's good to know that when you do want to know a certain something, somebody will probably be able to help you.


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## TXTortoise

FWIW, I periodically have way too much time on my hands and recently started reading the threads of 2006-2008 and then post-recession to get a feel for the pre-recession market, then market values and usage after 2008.

In the 2010 threads I found myself inundated with all the pre-June conjecture surrounding points, with folks trying to figure out what Marriott had up their sleeve and why it was the end of the world....it was weird, as I read it I knew what the future would be. ;-)

As I got into 2012, clarity started to surface, some folks recognizing that maybe Points weren't a totally bad thing, others still not convinced...though there was a solid consensus on Skim. (feel free to guess)

But what I most enjoyed was the depth of analysis and logical conjecture that occurred without a lot of clear detail by Marriott early on.  It was truly like reading through a hive mind as so much discussion would occur and ultimately boil down to what is essentially now found in the FAQ and/or repeated patiently for new folks.  Much of it was purely experiential data as folks started exercising the Points system, debating enrolling, and with more and more data points folks like Sue, GregT, Dean, Mox and others could describe more and more concisely, and with a high degree of confidence, how all this stuff apparently works....even without Marriott pulling back the curtain on all the details.

2am and rambling, but if you ever have the time, the search function on here can lead to some entertaining and educational hours of reading. ;-)


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## Jayco29D

I was looking at the ROFR.net data and the numbers are all over the place. Does anyone have any theories?


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## Saintsfanfl

Jayco29D said:


> I was looking at the ROFR.net data and the numbers are all over the place. Does anyone have any theories?



These are a few known variables:


The price someone thinks was submitted is not always the actual price submitted
Unpaid fees with no usage may lead to passing at any amount, or at a minimum, a greatly reduced threshold. 
Some brokers keep unpaid fees hostage until after transfer but they may pocket these fees if ROFR is exercised.
ROFR for some units seem to be an on or off action. When it is off units may pass at $1 but when it is on they may fail at $1,000.


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## chemteach

Dang...  Every other year Desert Springs Villas Red did not pass ROFR at $1575.  I thought this one would pass.


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## chemteach

Finally!!!!  Grand Chateau 3 BR every year $3050 just passed ROFR.  Done for now.  I suppose three tries isn't too bad...  Shadow Ridge Enclaves 2 BR Deluxe every year $3000 and Desert Springs $1575 every other year didn't pass for me...  This Grand Chateau one was a great deal because it came with the current year's usage free and all closing costs paid by seller.  I'm finally going to join Marriott.


----------



## Jayco29D

I am wondering why the ROFR.net does not include more companies like Vistana and others? It would be great to add other companies.


----------



## frank808

chemteach said:


> Finally!!!!  Grand Chateau 3 BR every year $3050 just passed ROFR.  Done for now.  I suppose three tries isn't too bad...  Shadow Ridge Enclaves 2 BR Deluxe every year $3000 and Desert Springs $1575 every other year didn't pass for me...  This Grand Chateau one was a great deal because it came with the current year's usage free and all closing costs paid by seller.  I'm finally going to join Marriott.


Did you buy this on eBay about a month ago?

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


----------



## TXTortoise

Jayco29D said:


> I am wondering why the ROFR.net does not include more companies like Vistana and others? It would be great to add other companies.



ROFR.net listings comes from the buyers. So maybe visit the Vistana forum and push a bit. ;-)


----------



## JIMinNC

Jayco29D said:


> I am wondering why the ROFR.net does not include more companies like Vistana and others? It would be great to add other companies.





TXTortoise said:


> ROFR.net listings comes from the buyers. So maybe visit the Vistana forum and push a bit. ;-)



I think the other reason is ROFR.net is a volunteer-created and maintained site by some TUGgers. They have to set the site up to take entries for each system. It used to be Marriott only and they added HGVC and Disney sometime in the past year or so. To add Vistana would first require the volunteers add each Vistana resort and all unit types to the programming/database.


----------



## Mlvnsmly

Just FAILED Marriott's Oceana Palms Ocean Front Gold season @ $3700.  Came back in a week.  added to ROFR.NET


----------



## chemteach

frank808 said:


> Did you buy this on eBay about a month ago?
> 
> Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


Purchased on ebay a few weeks ago.


----------



## dioxide45

Jayco29D said:


> I am wondering why the ROFR.net does not include more companies like Vistana and others? It would be great to add other companies.







JIMinNC said:


> I think the other reason is ROFR.net is a volunteer-created and maintained site by some TUGgers. They have to set the site up to take entries for each system. It used to be Marriott only and they added HGVC and Disney sometime in the past year or so. To add Vistana would first require the volunteers add each Vistana resort and all unit types to the programming/database.


As Jim indicated, we did add Hilton and Disney in the past year or so. I have considered adding Vistana and Vistana was included in the previous itteration of the ROFR database. However, Vistana only has ROFR at a few properties. When it was included in the prior version of the database, it received maybe only two or three entries over several years. ROFR really isn't a big concern with Vistana except perhaps at the Maui properties.


----------



## TXTortoise

ChiKate said:


> Just submitted ROFR request for waiver on a Mountainside Fixed Week 7. Fingers crossed that Marriott doesn't have interest in buying pricier fixed weeks!!



Any update on this? Last public asking price I saw by a broker was $62K, but that's probably like the high Maui asking prices...nice if you can get it. ;-)
(but no fixed units, so makes for lots of Week 7 at Mountainside.)


----------



## Jayco29D

frank808 said:


> Did you buy this on eBay about a month ago?
> 
> Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk



It seems like Grand Chateau has virtually no value on the resale market. I wonder if it will lose value as a trader if people only buy it as a trader. I think it may become a self fulfilling profecy.


----------



## chemteach

Jayco29D said:


> It seems like Grand Chateau has virtually no value on the resale market. I wonder if it will lose value as a trader if people only buy it as a trader. I think it may become a self fulfilling profecy.


??  2 bedroom lockoffs sell for around $1000.  3 BR lockoffs sell for $3000 to $4000 on ebay.


----------



## bazzap

Jayco29D said:


> It seems like Grand Chateau has virtually no value on the resale market. I wonder if it will lose value as a trader if people only buy it as a trader. I think it may become a self fulfilling profecy.


It is not just a good Interval trader (one of our best two), but also as enrolled probably our best value for money DC Points generator.


----------



## frank808

bazzap said:


> It is not just a good Interval trader (one of our best two), but also as enrolled probably our best value for money DC Points generator.


No chance of enrolling a resale grand chateau into the dc points program right now.  And if you can enroll a resale week it would take a $25000 purchase of direct points to enroll said resale week.

Sent from my SM-T217S using Tapatalk


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## bazzap

frank808 said:


> No chance of enrolling a resale grand chateau into the dc points program right now.  And if you can enroll a resale week it would take a $25000 purchase of direct points to enroll said resale week.
> 
> Sent from my SM-T217S using Tapatalk


True, lucky for those of us who were able to enrol.
It has still been an excellent Interval lock off 2 for 1 trader for us for over 10 years now though.


----------



## Dean

Jayco29D said:


> It seems like Grand Chateau has virtually no value on the resale market. I wonder if it will lose value as a trader if people only buy it as a trader. I think it may become a self fulfilling profecy.


LV, Orlando, Branson and Williamsburg are relatively poor traders when it comes to actual trade power.  But with the internal trading preference and the fact that II segregates trading based on resort quality in addition to trade power, they will trade fairly well.  I can't think of a resort in Marriott thats is cheap to get into and has a truly high trade power.  II does regional trade power while RCI is a little more by resort but the fact they also limit how far up or down you can trade affects choices.  Sometimes that means you get something you wouldn't otherwise but it can also mean there are times when you might not be able to trade to things that are available though with Marriott that usually means you're missing out on lower quality options.


----------



## Steve Fatula

Desert Springs Villas annual red failed at $2,000.


----------



## Jayco29D

chemteach said:


> ??  2 bedroom lockoffs sell for around $1000.  3 BR lockoffs sell for $3000 to $4000 on ebay.



Yes, super cheap.


----------



## Jayco29D

bazzap said:


> It is not just a good Interval trader (one of our best two), but also as enrolled probably our best value for money DC Points generator.



Surprising and perplexing. I would never stay at Marriott Grand Chateau. I guess addicted gamblers need the space to spread out. It surprises me something so cheap on the resale market trades so well. Maybe anything named “Marriott” trades well. That is what Interval told me.


----------



## Steve Fatula

chemteach said:


> ??  2 bedroom lockoffs sell for around $1000.  3 BR lockoffs sell for $3000 to $4000 on ebay.



True. Rofr.net though shows a recent 3BR that did not pass, at $4,000 for platinum plus. Another thing to consider. I'm considering one.


----------



## bazzap

Jayco29D said:


> Surprising and perplexing. I would never stay at Marriott Grand Chateau. I guess addicted gamblers need the space to spread out. It surprises me something so cheap on the resale market trades so well. Maybe anything named “Marriott” trades well. That is what Interval told me.


I am not sure I can explain why either, I just see the results.
I stayed in Las Vegas a few times before Grand Chateau was built, but since buying there over 10 years ago I have never been back. We have always exchanged through Interval or elected for DC Points.


----------



## TravelTime

I just bought Marriott Destination Points at $2.25 per point plus $2 activation fee.


----------



## mjm1

Jayco29D said:


> Surprising and perplexing. I would never stay at Marriott Grand Chateau. I guess addicted gamblers need the space to spread out. It surprises me something so cheap on the resale market trades so well. Maybe anything named “Marriott” trades well. That is what Interval told me.



Grand Chateau is in a great location just off the Strip. Las Vegas is much much more than gambling. Great entertainment and dining are two great features. And there are plenty of things to do away from the strip too.

So, one doesn’t need to be an addicted gambler to have a great time here. We enjoyed our timeshare stays here so much over the years that we decided to retire here. While most of our activities are away from the strip, we do enjoy going down there for shows, dinner, and the sights. And we don’t gamble other than me wagering on some ball games some times.

Come check it out. You might enjoy it too.

Best regard.

Mike


----------



## VacationForever

We don't gamble and go to the strip to watch shows.  We saw Elton John, Celine Dion, Shania Twain (my husband likes her, not me...) etc... over the past couple of years.  Off the strip is Southpoint, and they have great shows too for old folks like me  - Crystal Gayle and Tony Orlando are regulars.


----------



## TXTortoise

TravelTime said:


> I just bought Marriott Destination Points at $2.25 per point plus $2 activation fee.



How many points?


----------



## TravelTime

I just learned that the activation fee increased on March 28th to $750 per beneficial interest. That is $3 per point. Wow!


----------



## TravelTime

TXTortoise said:


> How many points?



Just added 1000 points to get to Executive level. Not sure how it passed. Got lucky for once.


----------



## GregT

TravelTime said:


> I just learned that the activation fee increased on March 28th to $750 per beneficial interest. That is $3 per point. Wow!



That is awful -- really sticking it to the Trust Point owner and decreasing the resale value of their ownership.  What a sleazy business model -- sell them points at $13 and then change the rules so that those same points are worth less and less.   Truly shameful.


----------



## Saintsfanfl

They are forcing the points to a resale value of less than zero so that they can buy back for free whenever they want to while also killing the resale market. I predicted this would happen but it is happening much faster than I thought it would.


----------



## taterhed

Just remember......we need the Marriott system--both legacy and points--to live and prosper.

We Tuggers are like the ramoras and other symbiotic creatures out there in the seas.
As long as our hosts thrive and prosper....we get to eat too.

But, if the fish we ride on becomes extinct.....we be SOL. 

Again, I think there might be ways to make the resale points market work....it can't go to zero though, and it can't rise up to resale either.  Somewhere right in the middle......(or a little less?)

imo


----------



## GregT

taterhed said:


> Just remember......we need the Marriott system--both legacy and points--to live and prosper.
> 
> We Tuggers are like the ramoras and other symbiotic creatures out there in the seas.
> As long as our hosts thrive and prosper....we get to eat too.
> 
> But, if the fish we ride on becomes extinct.....we be SOL.
> 
> Again, I think there might be ways to make the resale points market work....it can't go to zero though, and it can't rise up to resale either.  Somewhere right in the middle......(or a little less?)
> 
> imo



Rob,

I agree with you that we need Marriott to be successful, and I want them to be successful, but this is an conscious business decision that harms their customer base.  The $2 per point activation fee was lucrative, and further increases only assure that the resale value will approach Zero.    They clearly recognize that when the Trust Point owner is selling their points, they are no longer a future customer, and therefore cast them aside. 

Like others, I predicted when the DClub was announced that Trust Point purchasers would be the next group to get fleeced, and that Marriott would screw them one day.  We do continue to see it, and it is unfortunate.

Best,

Greg


----------



## taterhed

I certainly understand your points.  
You may be entirely right; I hope not.

My thought is this:  Let's see where the actual 'total' purchase price of the points go after this change settles down.  If they go up consistently, then the resale buyer gets 'fleeced' as you say  If the total purchase price (including junk) remains the same....then the sellers get fleeced I suppose.

Who knows?

I'm still waiting for post 2010  enrollment.  Not at $25k either.


----------



## JIMinNC

GregT said:


> That is awful -- really sticking it to the Trust Point owner and decreasing the resale value of their ownership.  What a sleazy business model -- sell them points at $13 and then change the rules so that those same points are worth less and less.   Truly shameful.



Agreed. With some of the recent points purchases in the $2.50-$3.50 range (the ones using the alternative structure with seller paying the transfer fees), the transfer fee is now basically half the total cost.


----------



## Saintsfanfl

taterhed said:


> Just remember......we need the Marriott system--both legacy and points--to live and prosper.
> 
> We Tuggers are like the ramoras and other symbiotic creatures out there in the seas.
> As long as our hosts thrive and prosper....we get to eat too.
> 
> But, if the fish we ride on becomes extinct.....we be SOL.
> 
> Again, I think there might be ways to make the resale points market work....it can't go to zero though, and it can't rise up to resale either.  Somewhere right in the middle......(or a little less?)
> 
> imo



For me it’s already worth less than zero with the added costs. Obviously the value is based on personal use but for the vast majority of people it isn’t worth it. 100% of the people paying full freight are getting scammed. This isn’t like the early days of selling weeks when the maintenance fees were a bargain, mrp trade in had more value than the fees, and resale could give you back all or most of your money. There is no chance of recouping much of anything after your purchase and the main reason is because it isn’t worth very much.


----------



## JIMinNC

Saintsfanfl said:


> For me it’s already worth less than zero with the added costs. Obviously the value is based on personal use but for the vast majority of people it isn’t worth it. 100% of the people paying full freight are getting scammed. This isn’t like the early days of selling weeks when the maintenance fees were a bargain, mrp trade in had more value than the fees, and resale could give you back all or most of your money. There is no chance of recouping much of anything after your purchase and the main reason is because it isn’t worth very much.



I agree the higher fees make owning more Marriott Destination Points less appealing. The conundrum is, while resale weeks still offer us an attractive, very cost effective way to access a location we want to travel to repeatedly, points are the only viable path for us to go to those places we want to visit less frequently. We dislike II trading, aren't comfortable with direct rentals from other owners (Redweek, VRBO, AirBnB, etc), and the cash rates for most MVC resorts are more than we like to pay. Points check most of the boxes for us, but the increasing acquisition cost and diminishing resale value if we would ever want to sell, makes adding to our point ownership a tough hurdle to clear. Since we already have DPs, renting points whenever we want to book something is likely the only truly cost-effective path forward, but renting comes with the inability to bank/borrow and we'll continue to be limited to the 10 month booking window for short stays. Sadly, for those of us who were not Marriott owners prior to June 2010, participating in a significant way in the DP system is increasingly hard to justify.


----------



## TravelTime

taterhed said:


> Just remember......we need the Marriott system--both legacy and points--to live and prosper.
> 
> We Tuggers are like the ramoras and other symbiotic creatures out there in the seas.
> As long as our hosts thrive and prosper....we get to eat too.
> 
> But, if the fish we ride on becomes extinct.....we be SOL.
> 
> Again, I think there might be ways to make the resale points market work....it can't go to zero though, and it can't rise up to resale either.  Somewhere right in the middle......(or a little less?)
> 
> imo



Exactly what I think, Taterhed. You nailed it.


----------



## TravelTime

On the bright side, maybe Marriott will exercise ROFR less often now. Maybe that's the idea. It might still be a good deal to buy points resale if the price of buying direct goes up too. Remember, we are in the hottest economy in US history right now. Everyone is increasing prices. Everyone wants raises. Unemployment is at all time low. I just read a story about the turnaround in Elkhart, Indiana in the Wall Street Journal. The title: 
The Future of America’s Economy Looks a Lot Like Elkhart, Indiana
The capital of RV manufacturing, which once had the worst unemployment rate in the U.S., is now facing labor shortages and rising home prices and wages​
Marriott gets excellent ratings as one of the best employers in America. So hopefully these price increases are being put to good use. I am trying to be optimistic here. I still have hope.


----------



## frank808

Well just got a 2br willowridge into my account for $1005 all fees included with free 2018 usage.  

Funny thing is i had a willowridge get exercised a couple months ago at $250 all in with no usage till 2019.  

Sent from my SM-T217S using Tapatalk


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## Saintsfanfl

frank808 said:


> Well just got a 2br willowridge into my account for $1005 all fees included with free 2018 usage.
> 
> Funny thing is i had a willowridge get exercised a couple months ago at $250 all in with no usage till 2019.
> 
> Sent from my SM-T217S using Tapatalk



It wasn't that long ago that they were buying WR back for $3k. Crazy.


----------



## JIMinNC

TravelTime said:


> Remember, we are in the hottest economy in US history right now. Everyone is increasing prices. Everyone wants raises. Unemployment is at all time low. I just read a story about the turnaround in Elkhart, Indiana in the Wall Street Journal. The title:
> The Future of America’s Economy Looks a Lot Like Elkhart, Indiana
> The capital of RV manufacturing, which once had the worst unemployment rate in the U.S., is now facing labor shortages and rising home prices and wages​



And that's the scary part...the last time the overall economy was this good was during the final days of the dot-com boom in 1999-2000. It's also reminiscent of the 2007 time frame when the housing market was going toward the moon. It's a classic late-stage economic cycle surge, which often precedes a downturn (as was the case in 2001 and 2008). With interest rates creeping higher and the potential for higher inflation, I see some potential clouds on the horizon. It's also been about 8 years since the economy emerged from the last recession, which makes 2010-2018 one of the longest periods of economic growth in history. While the recent stock market volatility has been blamed on a few Tweets, the reality is the market shrugged off those same kind of Tweets in 2017 and kept going up. Now even virtually irrelevant macro events that should have no impact on earnings, the economy, or the markets cause the market to hiccup. That says the market is now looking for any reason to go down instead of seeing everything as a reason to go up. In the big picture, that's not a good sign.

It would not surprise me if sometime in 2019 we're in a slowdown that sees timeshare prices and ROFR thresholds fall again.


----------



## TravelTime

Yes, it could go either way. No matter what, folks who manage their finances well will be fine. Unfortunately, that is not the majority of Americans or the world. These boom/bust cycles are increasing income inequality, in my opinion, because people with money during busts can bail out folks who are in distress. So we bottom dwellers (which I suspect most of the folks on TUG are) tend to benefit by buying distressed timeshares and other properties and assets.


----------



## Jerrygomi

Saintsfanfl said:


> These are a few known variables:
> 
> 
> The price someone thinks was submitted is not always the actual price submitted
> Unpaid fees with no usage may lead to passing at any amount, or at a minimum, a greatly reduced threshold.
> Some brokers keep unpaid fees hostage until after transfer but they may pocket these fees if ROFR is exercised.
> ROFR for some units seem to be an on or off action. When it is off units may pass at $1 but when it is on they may fail at $1,000.


Hi: Saintsfanfl: I was wondering your thoughts on ROFR at Desert Springs Villa 2.  I purchased a red season unit for $2k there recently.  Looking over the data, it looks like Marriott is all over the lot as to when it exercises ROFR: $2,000 failed and $5.00 passed on the same day in April 2018. In March a $3,000 offer passed and a $500 failed.


----------



## Steve Fatula

Yeah, my $2,000 failed. I think there is no hard and fast rule. If you tried $2,000 5 times, would it pass at least once? I would think it would.


----------



## Jerrygomi

Steve Fatula said:


> Yeah, my $2,000 failed. I think there is no hard and fast rule. If you tried $2,000 5 times, would it pass at least once? I would think it would.


Steve:  I don't get it.  How could yours fail at $2,000 and another pass at Five Dollars the same day?


----------



## Steve Fatula

Jerrygomi said:


> Steve:  I don't get it.  How could yours fail at $2,000 and another pass at Five Dollars the same day?



You'll have to ask Marriott! If you follow the threads here about ROFR, you will see they make no logical sense. Look through the various discussions, they are all over the place for the same property. I wish there was a reason to it!


----------



## bazzap

Yes, ROFR fails seem to range from $2.50 to $5, whilst plenty pass in this range.
One of life’s great imponderables.


----------



## MadMike3

Saintsfanfl said:


> For me it’s already worth less than zero with the added costs. Obviously the value is based on personal use but for the vast majority of people it isn’t worth it. 100% of the people paying full freight are getting scammed. This isn’t like the early days of selling weeks when the maintenance fees were a bargain, mrp trade in had more value than the fees, and resale could give you back all or most of your money. There is no chance of recouping much of anything after your purchase and the main reason is because it isn’t worth very much.


Agree. After listening to sales pitch at $13.96 per point, then finding points at $4 or less, we said no. We were told buying in resale will not get you to the next level(President), and will not make you a qualified internal points owner. We are legacy weeks owners with no points. This would be our first purchase of points but not our first weeks purchase on resale mkt - have both.  Is this sound right?


----------



## bazzap

MadMike3 said:


> Agree. After listening to sales pitch at $13.96 per point, then finding points at $4 or less, we said no. We were told buying in resale will not get you to the next level(President), and will not make you a qualified internal points owner. We are legacy weeks owners with no points. This would be our first purchase of points but not our first weeks purchase on resale mkt - have both.  Is this sound right?


No, if stipulated fees are paid, as detailed in the FAQs
https://tugbbs.com/forums/index.php?threads/faq-mvc-destinations-points-program.197346/
then full usage rights will transfer upon a resale to the buyer/new owner of DC Trust Points.


----------



## MadMike3

bazzap said:


> No, if stipulated fees are paid, as detailed in the FAQs
> https://tugbbs.com/forums/index.php?threads/faq-mvc-destinations-points-program.197346/
> then full usage rights will transfer upon a resale to the buyer/new owner of DC Trust Points.


I had read that but it was written 4 years ago. Are we sure it’s still true? Any recent experience?


----------



## Steve Fatula

MadMike3 said:


> I had read that but it was written 4 years ago. Are we sure it’s still true? Any recent experience?



I bought points resale last year, full rights granted. You will need to learn that timeshare salesmen, well, speak in half truths to be generous. You should be questioning every thing they say. There are many people here who have purchased resale points this year with the same experience. So, it is still true.


----------



## taterhed

"How do you know if they (might) be lying?"     (ans:  lips moving)


----------



## hajjah

Ok, so should we wait to try and purchase another unit if the ROFR has been exercised?  I just got my letter yesterday regarding Grand Chateau.  There are other resales in the marketplace for different locations.


----------



## Steve Fatula

If you really want a location and ROFR has been exercised, you can just try again. Logic would say try a little higher price. The stats would seem to say keep trying even at the same price until you succeed since ROFR seems to be exercised almost randomly in some cases.


----------



## hajjah

How do we try again if the resort has decided to take the property back into its inventory?  Does this mean that I try to find another resale being sold by someone else?  The unit I attempted to buy was on Ebay.    Is there a particular place that we should check for Marriotts other than the Marketplace and Ebay?  Thanks for your help.
Btw, I think I read somewhere here on TUG that if we've attended a promotion and did not buy, that could be a reason for the ROFR.  I attended a promotion in Orlando last month for the first time in 10 years.


----------



## TXTortoise

Redweek, Marriott Rent-Trade-Sell Facebook page, SellMyTimeshareNow, MagicalRealty.com, etc...or the easy answer, determine what you want to buy and a sense of what you think it's worth, then contact one of the better known brokers, tell them what you want and have them find it for you.   Some brokers, e.g., Syed at Advantage Vacations will acquire/sell any Marriott, but has Hawaiian expertise, others in Orlando might have a better market sense and inventory for the east coast.


----------



## chemteach

hajjah said:


> Ok, so should we wait to try and purchase another unit if the ROFR has been exercised?  I just got my letter yesterday regarding Grand Chateau.  There are other resales in the marketplace for different locations.


which size and what price?  Mine passed for $3050 3 bedroom, with current year's use included.  It seems the 1 bedroom units get ROFR'ed more than the 2 or 3 bedroom units.


----------



## MadMike3

Steve Fatula said:


> I bought points resale last year, full rights granted. You will need to learn that timeshare salesmen, well, speak in half truths to be generous. You should be questioning every thing they say. There are many people here who have purchased resale points this year with the same experience. So, it is still true.


Thanks Steve.  Don’t own any points now, just two deeded weeks. Purchasing the points will move us from Exec level to Presidentlevel plus make us “hybrid” owner with more availability to sites. You think it will work?


----------



## Steve Fatula

MadMike3 said:


> Thanks Steve.  Don’t own any points now, just two deeded weeks. Purchasing the points will move us from Exec level to Presidentlevel plus make us “hybrid” owner with more availability to sites. You think it will work?



Yes, it will work. Go for it if you think the benefits are there. Presidential does have some nice perks.


----------



## hajjah

chemteach said:


> which size and what price?  Mine passed for $3050 3 bedroom, with current year's use included.  It seems the 1 bedroom units get ROFR'ed more than the 2 or 3 bedroom units.


May I ask which company did you use to buy the unit?


----------



## chemteach

hajjah said:


> May I ask which company did you use to buy the unit?


It was an ebay purchase.  I think I just got lucky on the price - maybe people didn't notice that it came with current year's usage.  The 3 bedroom units don't come up very often on ebay, though.  The $3050 included all closing costs.


----------



## hajjah

What an awesome deal.  I just got back from the resort on Saturday.  It is a great place even for those of us who do not gamble.


----------



## chemteach

hajjah said:


> What an awesome deal.  I just got back from the resort on Saturday.  It is a great place even for those of us who do not gamble.


I was pretty shocked it went through.  (Happily surprised!)  I purchased planning to use it for exchanging in II for other Marriott units.  Hoping it works for me!  Won't know for a year or so...


----------



## byebye

How accurate is Rofr.net? I'm looking at the Aruba Surf Club and noticed the top line which states: 
"Aruba Surf Club 3/2/2018 Platinum Plus-President's Day Annual 2BR Ocean View $1,000.00 Passed Alana".
Could a $1000 for this actually pass?


----------



## Steve Fatula

spiker said:


> How accurate is Rofr.net? I'm looking at the Aruba Surf Club and noticed the top line which states:
> "Aruba Surf Club 3/2/2018 Platinum Plus-President's Day Annual 2BR Ocean View $1,000.00 Passed Alana".
> Could a $1000 for this actually pass?



As far as I know, it's not validated in any way. My realtor says it's suspect. However, from experience, I also know that ROFR can be exercised for $3,000 today and not exercised for $1,000 tomorrow. There seems to be no rhyme or reason to when it is exercised in many cases. So, my answer is, it could have passed. But unless you can locate the person who reported it, pretty hard to know 100% for certain. I have posted a few of mine there, and they are accurate.


----------



## TXTortoise

The administrator may have the posters email, even if listing name is anonymous. 

He might be able to ping them, since I’m sure he has nothing else to do, but worth the ask. 

Given how few people posts, I’m guessing it’s valid.


----------



## taterhed

I'm also pretty sure that some posters are posting the actual 'sales' price as the ROFR. In fact, this could be drastically different than the amount submitted for ROFR with all fees, commissions and any other premiums added.

Of course, this is merely speculation.


----------



## MOXJO7282

spiker said:


> How accurate is Rofr.net? I'm looking at the Aruba Surf Club and noticed the top line which states:
> "Aruba Surf Club 3/2/2018 Platinum Plus-President's Day Annual 2BR Ocean View $1,000.00 Passed Alana".
> Could a $1000 for this actually pass?


Highly unlikely.


----------



## Fasttr

spiker said:


> How accurate is Rofr.net? I'm looking at the Aruba Surf Club and noticed the top line which states:
> "Aruba Surf Club 3/2/2018 Platinum Plus-President's Day Annual 2BR Ocean View $1,000.00 Passed Alana".
> Could a $1000 for this actually pass?


We tend to believe that MVC can't put the Aruba weeks into the DC Trust because the DC is a US Land trust...and Aruba is not US...either that or it has something to do with Aruba being a RTU deed...or both.  Usually when MVC ROFR's, they toss that inventory into the Trust.  So if they can't do that, it limits what they can do with the week that they ROFR.  That may make Aruba one of those locations where you see odd ROFR happenings.  Purely speculation of course.


----------



## JIMinNC

Fasttr said:


> We tend to believe that MVC can't put the Aruba weeks into the DC Trust because the DC is a US Land trust...and Aruba is not US...either that or it has something to do with Aruba being a RTU deed...or both.  Usually when MVC ROFR's, they toss that inventory into the Trust.  So if they can't do that, it limits what they can do with the week that they ROFR.  That may make Aruba one of those locations where you see odd ROFR happenings.  Purely speculation of course.



I think this is correct. If you read one of the answers from the VAC 1Q earnings call that I posted in the VAC/ILG merger thread - the question was on their view on inventory repurchases at MVC vs ILG - and you can tell from the answer that they don't seem to like repurchasing inventory in a weeks-based model (which I assume Aruba still is due to the Trust limitations you mentioned). They probably only buy back enough to satisfy the demand for weeks sales in the Aruba sales office (which we've heard reported they offer as a backup sale when the prospect has declined a straight points sale). If they think they have enough in inventory, they may be more likely to pass, even on a low price.


----------



## dioxide45

I will look in to the $1000 sale at the Surf Club. I suspect they forgot a digit.

The DC trust is indeed a land trust and can only hold real estate deeds. Since the Surf Club is outside the US, I don't think they can add it. They also haven't added Custom House.

That said, they are selling weeks still in Aruba, so I would think they would snatch up a Platinum Plus Presidents Day week for only $1000.


----------



## dioxide45

dioxide45 said:


> I will look in to the $1000 sale at the Surf Club. I suspect they forgot a digit.
> 
> The DC trust is indeed a land trust and can only hold real estate deeds. Since the Surf Club is outside the US, I don't think they can add it. They also haven't added Custom House.
> 
> That said, they are selling weeks still in Aruba, so I would think they would snatch up a Platinum Plus Presidents Day week for only $1000.


Unfortunately, it doesn't look like the person that left that entry provided their email address. I also checked through all my emails, including junk folder, and I can't find any emails related to this entry. So unless they see this post, we won't know if it is correct or not.


----------



## Steve Fatula

dioxide45 said:


> Unfortunately, it doesn't look like the person that left that entry provided their email address. I also checked through all my emails, including junk folder, and I can't find any emails related to this entry. So unless they see this post, we won't know if it is correct or not.



Maybe you can add an optional field, TUG user id? This person may still have not filled it out, but, sometimes, people like me are reluctant to provide an email. I wouldn't mind providing my TUG user id. Just a thought.


----------



## dioxide45

Steve Fatula said:


> Maybe you can add an optional field, TUG user id? This person may still have not filled it out, but, sometimes, people like me are reluctant to provide an email. I wouldn't mind providing my TUG user id. Just a thought.


You can simply enter your TUG Username in the name field. Many people do that already. I tried searching for that user here on TUG, but there is no member on the BBS with that name.


----------



## byebye

Yes it would be nice if there were some way to confirm these prices. I recently purchased a ASC and I wait until it passes ROFR to post. I did this in 2010 and will do it to this one as well. I was lucky in 2010 - I bought it 6/7/10 and just recently was able to transfer to points for free.


----------



## sandcfort

How much is the Marriott transfer or reenrollment fee for buying on the secondary market?   $2 per point or more.


----------



## Panina

I have looked to purchase Hyatt in the past as their trading power seemed great especially if you were trading for smaller units in II.  Not a lot of Hyatt points were needed.   This is the piece I am wondering on, how Hyatt’s will trade in II in the future.


----------



## Fasttr

sandcfort said:


> How much is the Marriott transfer or reenrollment fee for buying on the secondary market?   $2 per point or more.


There have been several reports that it jumped up to $3 per point around April of 2018.  Not sure if there is also a minimum that applies.  It used to be $2 per point with a $3K minimum.


----------



## taterhed

The reports are true: $3 per point, with $3k minimum. 

Keep in mind:  this sets the amount of money that ultimately goes to Marriott, but there is no clear indication how it will affect the ROFR.
In fact, it seems as though Marriott has been more lenient lately (based on posts) on the MVC points with 'bundled' fees attached.

YMMV


----------



## dioxide45

taterhed said:


> The reports are true: $3 per point, with $3k minimum.
> 
> Keep in mind:  this sets the amount of money that ultimately goes to Marriott, but there is no clear indication how it will affect the ROFR.
> In fact, it seems as though Marriott has been more lenient lately (based on posts) on the MVC points with 'bundled' fees attached.
> 
> YMMV


Perhaps the higher junk fees just drive down the offer price to the buyer. Perhaps making it more likely that Marriott exercises?


----------



## taterhed

This is definitely a 'Soylent Green' cycle.    *.....It's POINTS!!!!   *

Buy points, give them back, buy points.....


----------



## hajjah

I've just had my second possible Marriott purchase ROFR again.  Both units were EOY.  I'll keep trying.


----------



## TXTortoise

Please add to ROFR.net


----------



## hajjah

TXTortoise said:


> Please add to ROFR.net


Yes, I’ve posted both results on ROFR.


----------



## Jerrygomi

Marriott just exercised ROFR on my $2036 purchase of annual 2BR red week at Desert Springs Villas II. Added to ROFR.net.


----------



## TravelTime

Do Tuggers think that the price per point for MVC DC Points will decrease further since they raised their activation fees from $2 to $3 pp?


----------



## GregT

TravelTime said:


> Do Tuggers think that the price per point for MVC DC Points will decrease further since they raised their activation fees from $2 to $3 pp?



Yes I do.  I think here is a limit to how far the prices can drop, because Marriott can simply ROFR anything that is too cheap, but I do believe prices will drop to $2.00 - $2.50 per point, with some of them passing ROFR.    I will be very curious to see how ROFR activity is affected by the merger, and if more things pass because the junk fee is attractive and Marriott's cash may be better spent on dividends, debt, and integration activities.

Best,

Greg


----------



## hajjah

Marriott just enforced its ROFR on Harbour Lake EOY.  I've posted it to ROFR.net.


----------



## chemteach

I am a happy camper!  I purchased a two bedroom platinum annual Timber Lodge unit and it passed ROFR at $4200.  I didn't think it would pass.  Super happy.


----------



## Oscar923

Marriott exercised ROFR on my EOY Grand Chateau platinum 1 bedroom at $398.   The case is added to ROFR.net database.


----------



## MOXJO7282

I have a MOC 2BDRM OF odd year pending at $11,700 all-in. It's been a week so hopefully I find out soon.


----------



## TravelTime

TravelTime said:


> I just bought Marriott Destination Points at $2.25 per point plus $2 activation fee.



Just want to make a correction. This deal did not work out. I passed at $3 pp plus the $2 activation fee. So $5 per point for 7000 points total.


----------



## TravelTime

TravelTime said:


> Just added 1000 points to get to Executive level. Not sure how it passed. Got lucky for once.



Just want to clarify the $2.25 pp did not work out. I ended up buying a total of 7000 points to get to Execiutive level at $3 pp plus $2 activation fee.


----------



## TravelTime

MOXJO7282 said:


> I have a MOC 2BDRM OF odd year pending at $11,700 all-in. It's been a week so hopefully I find out soon.



That would be a great price. Hope it passes.


----------



## TXTortoise

MOXJO7282 said:


> I have a MOC 2BDRM OF odd year pending at $11,700 all-in. It's been a week so hopefully I find out soon.



Just met a new friend that picked up one of those up three years ago...$10k. Hoping your’s passes. FWIW, My last three all got ROFR cleared within two weeks of submission.


----------



## MOXJO7282

TXTortoise said:


> Just met a new friend that picked up one of those up three years ago...$10k. Hoping your’s passes. FWIW, My last three all got ROFR cleared within two weeks of submission.


I think it should pass. I think it's a very good price especially since it's an all-in price AND I'm getting a good 2019 week and not paying the 2018 fees. A number of  sellers tried to pass those on and I pass on those deals.   I'm likely to use the week and combine with a great offer I just got from Hyatt to preview a 2BDRM OF for $999 for 5 days. So it looks like Maui is in our future for 2019


----------



## TXTortoise

Nice.  They were doing short presentations for Marriott owners when we were there last February. $150 gift cards.  Awesome rooms...and prices. Made a winter Lahaina tower fixed week look like a bargain.


----------



## toddc2

TravelTime said:


> That would be a great price. Hope it passes.



That would be a great all in price. After failing ROFR at $10k for the same unit, my broker said $12k is the safe zone. Your all in price implies a purchase price of just shy of $11k + fees, so it's going to be a close call. Keep us apprised!


----------



## taterhed

MOXJO7282 said:


> I think it should pass. I think it's a very good price especially since it's an all-in price AND I'm getting a good 2019 week and not paying the 2018 fees. A number of  sellers tried to pass those on and I pass on those deals.   I'm likely to use the week and combine with a great offer I just got from Hyatt to preview a 2BDRM OF for $999 for 5 days. So it looks like Maui is in our future for 2019



How'd you get the $999?


----------



## MOXJO7282

taterhed said:


> How'd you get the $999?


Email solicitation. I had done a presentation back in 2014 and said no so was surprised to receive but verry happy. For $999 you get a 2BDRM OF and a basic rental car.  Now i have to make it work with everyone's schedule with my DD looking for her first job out of college but at the very least me and the mrs. and friends will be going.


----------



## TXTortoise

Plus Resort fees and parking?  Five or six 'nights'


----------



## michael49

TXTortoise said:


> Plus Resort fees and parking?  Five or six 'nights'


6 days, 5 nights; doesn't include parking but does include resort fees. I just got the same solicitation by way of snail mail.


----------



## MOXJO7282

michael49 said:


> 6 days, 5 nights; doesn't include parking but does include resort fees. I just got the same solicitation by way of snail mail.


6 days 5 nights.  I don't see anything labelled fine print that says I'm responsible for parking. the T&Cs are below. It would be BS if they charged me for parking when it's not specifically mentioned.


"Accommodations are for an oceanfront 2-bedroom, 2-bath suite at Hyatt Residence Club Maui, which includes a king bed, guest room with queen bed, queen-size sleeper sofa, private lanai, washer and dryer, and fully-equipped kitchen. Promoted rate includes daily resort fee. You will be responsible for any incidental expenses such as transportation, meals, activities, additional expenses and taxes, where applicable.


Any certificates or premiums offered in conjunction with your vacation package will be honored after completion of the sales presentation. Your package includes an Avis time and mileage credit for up to $185 for up to six pre-paid rental days in an intermediate-sized vehicle during your vacation travel dates. Operating expenses including taxes, gas, insurance coverage, upgrades, damages and optional services are your responsibility. You must present a valid driver's license and meet standard Avis rental requirements. This credit is non-transferable and may not be combined with any other offers or coupons, and is not substitutable. Any unused portion of this credit will be forfeited. Car rental company subject to change.


----------



## SeaDoc

chemteach said:


> I am a happy camper!  I purchased a two bedroom platinum annual Timber Lodge unit and it passed ROFR at $4200.  I didn't think it would pass.  Super happy.



What season, summer or winter?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## CalGalTraveler

duplicate


----------



## chemteach

SeaDoc said:


> What season, summer or winter?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk



Ski season.


----------



## MOXJO7282

Any season but holiday weeks were higher priced is what we were told.


----------



## michael49

MOXJO7282 said:


> 6 days 5 nights.  I don't see anything labelled fine print that says I'm responsible for parking. the T&Cs are below. It would be BS if they charged me for parking when it's not specifically mentioned.
> 
> 
> "Accommodations are for an oceanfront 2-bedroom, 2-bath suite at Hyatt Residence Club Maui, which includes a king bed, guest room with queen bed, queen-size sleeper sofa, private lanai, washer and dryer, and fully-equipped kitchen. Promoted rate includes daily resort fee. *You will be responsible for any incidental expenses such as transportation, meals, activities, additional expenses and taxes, where applicable*.
> 
> 
> Any certificates or premiums offered in conjunction with your vacation package will be honored after completion of the sales presentation. Your package includes an Avis time and mileage credit for up to $185 for up to six pre-paid rental days in an intermediate-sized vehicle during your vacation travel dates. Operating expenses including taxes, gas, insurance coverage, upgrades, damages and optional services are your responsibility. You must present a valid driver's license and meet standard Avis rental requirements. This credit is non-transferable and may not be combined with any other offers or coupons, and is not substitutable. Any unused portion of this credit will be forfeited. Car rental company subject to change.



Very interesting!
My snail mail T & C reads: "You are responsible for any incidental expenses such as *parking*, transportation, meals, activities and taxes, where applicable."


----------



## JeffreyBee

Bought a Desert Springs II for $1 that I never dreamed would go through. The real estate broker told me yesterday that the transfer agent ordered the Deed which he says means it passed ROFR. I hope so. 

I got a 2 BR lockoff, weeks 22-27 or 36-49.


----------



## hajjah

JeffreyBee said:


> Bought a Desert Springs II for $1 that I never dreamed would go through. The real estate broker told me yesterday that the transfer agent ordered the Deed which he says means it passed ROFR. I hope so.
> 
> I got a 2 BR lockoff, weeks 22-27 or 36-49.



Congratulations!  Where did you find your unit for $1.00?  I've had 3 ROFR's within the last two months.


----------



## taterhed

Marriott Waiohai, Platinum Annual 2br,  Island View:  Marriott exercised ROFR with contract sales price of :  $7500

That's a surprise....(not sarcastic).


----------



## GregT

taterhed said:


> Marriott Waiohai, Platinum Annual 2br,  Island View:  Marriott exercised ROFR with contract sales price of :  $7500
> 
> That's a surprise....(not sarcastic).



Wow -- I would have thought that would pass.  Interesting....thanks for posting this!

Best,

Greg


----------



## taterhed

Yup. 
WKORV  OFD, passed at $21k.
Waiohai IV,   failed at $7500

Hm. Go figure.


----------



## stslc

Hope I haven’t jinxed anything by posting as Marriott hasn’t yet recorded the transfer. We have received the Quit Claim recorded by the state of HI..
We purchased a Marriott Maui Ocean Club Lahaina Villas 2BR annual  Ocean View for $10;600 plus $400 closing costs. All in at 11k even. I was a little surprised it passed ROFR but very glad to own at MOC. Hoping to get transferred in time to get a summer week 2019..


----------



## NTP66

stslc said:


> Hope I haven’t jinxed anything by posting as Marriott hasn’t yet recorded the transfer. We have received the Quit Claim recorded by the state of HI..
> We purchased a Marriott Maui Ocean Club Lahaina Villas 2BR annual  Ocean View for $10;600 plus $400 closing costs. All in at 11k even. I was a little surprised it passed ROFR but very glad to own at MOC. Hoping to get transferred in time to get a summer week 2019..


That's borderline theft. Very nice.


----------



## mjm1

stslc said:


> Hope I haven’t jinxed anything by posting as Marriott hasn’t yet recorded the transfer. We have received the Quit Claim recorded by the state of HI..
> We purchased a Marriott Maui Ocean Club Lahaina Villas 2BR annual  Ocean View for $10;600 plus $400 closing costs. All in at 11k even. I was a little surprised it passed ROFR but very glad to own at MOC. Hoping to get transferred in time to get a summer week 2019..



That’s sounds like a great price. Congratulations! Enjoy.

Mike


----------



## JeffreyBee

hajjah said:


> Congratulations!  Where did you find your unit for $1.00?  I've had 3 ROFR's within the last two months.



Ebay. I also just bought a Tahoe floating week that I am waiting on to find out whether it went through


----------



## Steve Fatula

JeffreyBee said:


> Bought a Desert Springs II for $1 that I never dreamed would go through. The real estate broker told me yesterday that the transfer agent ordered the Deed which he says means it passed ROFR. I hope so.
> 
> I got a 2 BR lockoff, weeks 22-27 or 36-49.



Probably because it wasn't high season. But congrats.


----------



## MOXJO7282

MOXJO7282 said:


> I have a MOC 2BDRM OF odd year pending at $11,700 all-in. It's been a week so hopefully I find out soon.


This passed.


----------



## hajjah

Yippie!  After three unsuccessful attempts to purchase with Marriott, the ROFR was just waived for me to purchase at Grande Vista.  The price was $775 not including the closing cost via Magical Reality.  The Deed is being prepared.  I have another waiting at Grand Chateau via Ebay.  The first attempt was refused.  I've added my information to the data base on ROFR.net.


----------



## hajjah

I can’t find the post on how to check on the status of a ROFR.  My closing agent is away until the 18th, but I’d like to find out the status on a Grand Chateau EBay purchase.


----------



## dioxide45

hajjah said:


> I can’t find the post on how to check on the status of a ROFR.  My closing agent is away until the 18th, but I’d like to find out the status on a Grand Chateau EBay purchase.


You can't really find it out on your own. There isn't a web site or link to look it up. Your Closing Agent needs to tell you.


----------



## hajjah

Ok, I thought I had found something on TUG a while back detailing how to go to the registrar of deeds for the county where the timeshare is located.  Thanks


----------



## Theiggy

hajjah said:


> I can’t find the post on how to check on the status of a ROFR.  My closing agent is away until the 18th, but I’d like to find out the status on a Grand Chateau EBay purchase.



I don’t know the answer to your question but my guess is you can call MVC? Just curious- what season was your GV? 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## hajjah

It’s a 2 bedroom lockout -gold season EOY Even.


----------



## hajjah

I received my closing documents today for signatures and a copy of the waiver.  So, things are moving along nicely.


----------



## hajjah

So, my Grand Chateau did not pass.  Information added to ROFR.net.


----------



## Saintsfanfl

hajjah said:


> Ok, I thought I had found something on TUG a while back detailing how to go to the registrar of deeds for the county where the timeshare is located.  Thanks



ROFR is something internal to Marriott only and not something they ever record at the county. Even if they did it would not be recorded until everything is final. 

The Marriott department that handles ROFR decisions is not a department that can be readily contacted. You could get there eventually but they make it difficult on purpose. It’s always easier to keep bugging the closing company.


----------



## hajjah

Saintsfanfl said:


> ROFR is something internal to Marriott only and not something they ever record at the county. Even if they did it would not be recorded until everything is final.
> 
> The Marriott department that handles ROFR decisions is not a department that can be readily contacted. You could get there eventually but they make it difficult on purpose. It’s always easier to keep bugging the closing company.



Thanks for your post.  Since I’ve had 4 ROFR's in the last 2 months and 1 pass, I will be satisfied with the one and maybe try again at the end of the year.  Too bad there’s no method to purchasing resales that are a guaranteed success.


----------



## taterhed

hajjah said:


> Thanks for your post.  Since I’ve had 4 ROFR's in the last 2 months and 1 pass, I will be satisfied with the one and maybe try again at the end of the year.  Too bad there’s no method to purchasing resales that are a guaranteed success.



There is.  Bid on a property that does not have ROFR.  Not all Marriotts do you know....


----------



## dioxide45

taterhed said:


> There is.  Bid on a property that does not have ROFR.  Not all Marriotts do you know....


Or start looking at Vistana. They only have a select few properties with ROFR>


----------



## Dean

taterhed said:


> There is.  Bid on a property that does not have ROFR.  Not all Marriotts do you know....


It's mostly older properties (+NJ & St Thomas) that don't have ROFR, there are 13 IIRC total if you count Vail as 3.


----------



## Steve Fatula

hajjah said:


> Thanks for your post.  Since I’ve had 4 ROFR's in the last 2 months and 1 pass, I will be satisfied with the one and maybe try again at the end of the year.  Too bad there’s no method to purchasing resales that are a guaranteed success.



Bid a million dollars, you would be guaranteed success! 

Failing that, perhaps you are offering too low a price?


----------



## taterhed

Of course, you can just play the 'Rofr Roulette..'   you never know where the wheel will land.  Sooner or later, you'll get something.

There are some amazing reports on the forum......


----------



## hajjah

hajjah said:


> I received my closing documents today for signatures and a copy of the waiver.  So, things are moving along nicely.



Update:  The new deed was sent to the resort yesterday.  This entire process took less than 30 days.  Magical Reality was great!  Thanks for suggesting them as one of the companies to use.


----------



## bazzap

Club Son Antem Gold Season 2 Bed passed ROFR at €1700 ($1997) total cost
Just added to rofr.net


----------



## taterhed

Nice


----------



## johnf0614

Just lost on a 2BR platinum grande vista EOY for $1599


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Vacation fun

It appears that Marriott is using more there ROFR latetley and is aggressive buying more weeks? Has anyone else notice this also? What are your thoughts on this? Also do they just look at the price or look to see who is buying to stop repeated buyers just wondering.


----------



## hajjah

I can’t figure it out.  Only one of my five attempts to purchase passed recently.  I thought it was about the price or buying via EBay, but there are weeks that have passed for $1 and under $500.


----------



## johnf0614

I’ve lost on 3 attempts at Grand Chateau and Grande Vista the past 4 months. Trying again now at Grand Chateau. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## taterhed

I lost an MGR 3br EOY....I think they are grabbing the MGV/MGR's for some purpose...Hybrid, resale, trust, who knows?


----------



## StevenTing

Vacation fun said:


> It appears that Marriott is using more there ROFR latetley and is aggressive buying more weeks? Has anyone else notice this also? What are your thoughts on this? Also do they just look at the price or look to see who is buying to stop repeated buyers just wondering.



In my last owner update in June 2018, the sales rep said that Marriott had $180 Million set aside for ROFR. This could be the result of that money.


----------



## californiagirl

The property I’m waiting to hear about has a 15 day ROFR.  Are those business days or calendar days?  Are they legally required to respond within that time period?  If they don’t respond within 15 days, but respond on day 17 say, are they out of luck?


----------



## Dean

californiagirl said:


> The property I’m waiting to hear about has a 15 day ROFR.  Are those business days or calendar days?  Are they legally required to respond within that time period?  If they don’t respond within 15 days, but respond on day 17 say, are they out of luck?


I think they respond to the seller, it's not uncommon for the buyer to hear later.


----------



## taterhed

Legally, as specified in  the specific terms for the resort/property, if they fail to reply, then the right is (or isn't ) waived.   You'd need to reference the specific ROFR statement that applies.  I assume they are in the docs and not blanket based on the many variations.  Good luck getting them to sign off if they choose to fight it.

I'm sure somebody has the written statement of ROFR for the resort you're waiting on....


----------



## Dean

taterhed said:


> Legally, as specified in  the specific terms for the resort/property, if they fail to reply, then the right is (or isn't ) waived.   You'd need to reference the specific ROFR statement that applies.  I assume they are in the docs and not blanket based on the many variations.  Good luck getting them to sign off if they choose to fight it.
> 
> I'm sure somebody has the written statement of ROFR for the resort you're waiting on....


But the requirement is normally to respond to the seller and the response normally doesn't have to be received, only sent (postmarked, email, etc) by the required date.  I'm not awar


----------



## Dean

duplicate


----------



## taterhed

Uh, my point was:  If the resort fails to respond, the right is waived. Yes, I would inquire if not received and request proof if exercised but not received (tracking/postmark).


----------



## Dean

taterhed said:


> Uh, my point was:  If the resort fails to respond, the right is waived. Yes, I would inquire if not received and request proof if exercised but not received (tracking/postmark).


Have you ever heard of anyone successfully closing and having a resort listed on their account without a formal waiver?  I have't with Marriott or Disney.  My points were the buyer doesn't have to be notified by Marriott and the denial doesn't have to be received, only sent.  It sounds like we're saying much the same thing but from different sides.  I would agree if they actually miss the deadline, it should be considered waived.


----------



## amy241

Just signed a purchase agreement for Marriott Ko ‘Olina oceanview platinum for $9500. Do you think this will pass ROFR? Please keep your fingers crossed for us!


----------



## Mlvnsmly

You never know, but according to rofr.net, one just failed at 10k at the beginning of the month.  There definitely seems to be an uptick in MVC exercising rofr as of late.  Best of luck!


----------



## californiagirl

So excited to report that our Waiohai, Island View, EOY passed ROFR at $3500.  We heard 6 days from submitting ROFR.  I’ve added it to the database.


----------



## amy241

californiagirl said:


> So excited to report that our Waiohai, Island View, EOY passed ROFR at $3500.  We heard 6 days from submitting ROFR.  I’ve added it to the database.



Wow, that was fast. Congrats.


----------



## taterhed

I think the only reason your MAW passed is the Marriott distaste for EOY's.


----------



## johnf0614

taterhed said:


> I think the only reason your MAW passed is the Marriott distaste for EOY's.



I’ve lost out on 3 EOY contracts in the past 4 months. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## taterhed

johnf0614 said:


> I’ve lost out on 3 EOY contracts in the past 4 months.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


3 Marriotts?  Wow.

Not counting MGR/MGV  They have been grabbing a bunch of those Plats (gold's too?)


----------



## johnf0614

taterhed said:


> 3 Marriotts?  Wow.
> 
> Not counting MGR/MGV  They have been grabbing a bunch of those Plats (gold's too?)



Yep. GC and GV EOY platinums.   Waiting to hear on another EOY GC now. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## taterhed

I believe that.  I lost a Grande Vista EOY 3br...... heard of a lot of ROFR's on Grande Vista and Grande Chateau.


----------



## chemteach

taterhed said:


> I believe that.  I lost a Grande Vista EOY 3br...... heard of a lot of ROFR's on Grande Vista and Grande Chateau.


I guess I got lucky 5 months ago on my 3 BR GC.  At the time, people thought Marriott wouldn't ROFR GC because they had so much GC already in the points program.  Goes to show - you just never know...  The GC units are going for almost nothing on ebay, but it sounds like they will just get ROFR'd by Marriott...


----------



## LUVourMarriotts

I've been speaking with resale operations for a bunch of different reasons.  I was on a call with a manager yesterday.  I don't know if this is truth or not, but this is what she told me.  She said there was an internal announcement that gave them insight into the final plans for the whole merger.  She said that $150,000,000 has been allocated to exercise ROFR on resale transfers, so they will be grabbing as much inventory as possible.  Again, I have no idea if this is truth or not, but figured I'd share.


----------



## TXTortoise

Tracks with what Steven Ting reported, and somewhat reflects what has been reported since January.

Waiting to see the first $20K+ Maui unit they take back. ;-)


----------



## amy241

LUVourMarriotts said:


> I've been speaking with resale operations for a bunch of different reasons.  I was on a call with a manager yesterday.  I don't know if this is truth or not, but this is what she told me.  She said there was an internal announcement that gave them insight into the final plans for the whole merger.  She said that $150,000,000 has been allocated to exercise ROFR on resale transfers, so they will be grabbing as much inventory as possible.  Again, I have no idea if this is truth or not, but figured I'd share.



This does not bode well for my Marriott Ko Olina Oceanview $9500 purchase. . . We are still waiting to hear. They are very flush with cash right now it appears.


----------



## dioxide45

LUVourMarriotts said:


> I've been speaking with resale operations for a bunch of different reasons.  I was on a call with a manager yesterday.  I don't know if this is truth or not, but this is what she told me.  She said there was an internal announcement that gave them insight into the final plans for the whole merger.  She said that $150,000,000 has been allocated to exercise ROFR on resale transfers, so they will be grabbing as much inventory as possible.  Again, I have no idea if this is truth or not, but figured I'd share.


Perhaps they see a huge selling opportunity to Westin and Sheraton owners, so they need points to back up those sales. It is usually a 6-12 month process from when they take a week in through ROFR before it is actually conveyed to the trust, converted to points and ready to sell. They need to be planning now.


----------



## californiagirl

This is exactly why we were delighted that Marriott waived their ROFR.  It may be because it is EOY, even years that they waived.  Who knows?  We are ok with that...the odd year weeks that we inquired about were higher priced to begin with and they wouldn’t budge on price AND they wanted reimbursement for 2018 maintenance fees.  Our total out of pocket costs would have been higher.

This complements our even year MOC week.  That week is in the Destination Club so we can trade for points in an odd year if we want to go to Hawaii one week each year, or we can go even years to Maui for a week, then Kauai for a week.  Or trade MOC for points and go two weeks to Kauai.


----------



## jeepie

californiagirl said:


> This is exactly why we were delighted that Marriott waived their ROFR.  It may be because it is EOY, even years that they waived.  Who knows?  We are ok with that...the odd year weeks that we inquired about were higher priced to begin with and they wouldn’t budge on price AND they wanted reimbursement for 2018 maintenance fees.  Our total out of pocket costs would have been higher.
> 
> This complements our even year MOC week.  That week is in the Destination Club so we can trade for points in an odd year if we want to go to Hawaii one week each year, or we can go even years to Maui for a week, then Kauai for a week.  Or trade MOC for points and go two weeks to Kauai.


Deleted after rereading post more closely.


----------



## hajjah

This topic has been such a big help to me now as a new Marriott owner at GV after losing 4 ROFR's in Orlando and Las Vegas.  I cannot find the list of Marriotts that do not require the ROFR.  I do remember the NJ and St. Thomas, but that's about it.  I think that one of the Desert Club's is also included in that list.  If I were to refer friends to join Marriott as owners, I would advise them to buy one without ROFR.


----------



## dioxide45

hajjah said:


> This topic has been such a big help to me now as a new Marriott owner at GV after losing 4 ROFR's in Orlando and Las Vegas.  I cannot find the list of Marriotts that do not require the ROFR.  I do remember the NJ and St. Thomas, but that's about it.  I think that one of the Desert Club's is also included in that list.  If I were to refer friends to join Marriott as owners, I would advise them to buy one without ROFR.


From the Weeks FAQ sticky;
https://tugbbs.com/forums/index.php?threads/marriotts-right-of-first-refusal-rofr.13111/


----------



## hajjah

Yep, that's the list that I needed.  Thanks so much!


----------



## Jerrygomi

Marriott exercised ROFR on Red Season Desert Springs Villas 2 Every Other Year purchase at $500. Good news was they gave me the bad news in about a week.  Will add to database.


----------



## Saintsfanfl

They are grabbing everything. I had a Ocean Pointe Silver OS fail a week ago.

They don't always make much sense. I was selling a Harbour Lake Platinum earlier in the year and they did not want it for $1. I sold it to a private party for $1,400 and they exercised ROFR. Go figure.


----------



## amy241

Marriott exercised ROFR on my $9500 Marriott Ko Olina purchase. Got the bad news tonight. Added to ROFR.net.


----------



## JIMinNC

Saintsfanfl said:


> They are grabbing everything. I had a Ocean Pointe Silver OS fail a week ago.



We may see even more ROFR ahead based on comments they made during their 2Q Earnings Conference Call yesterday. 

They said their development margin fell to around 20% in the 2Q from 23% last quarter, primarily due to "increased product costs stemming from a higher mix of new inventory being sold vs. reacquired inventory." They are projecting that the development margin for the second half of the year will be back over their 20% goal, and will benefit from "lower product costs due to a higher mix of reacquired inventory being sold." They went on to say their goal is to reduce inventory spending by using reacquired inventory, and reducing new inventory spending and capital expense spending and that will continue to benefit their margins.

So, sounds like fewer new locations and more ROFR, at least in North America. They did say they had a second Bali location coming in 2020, and they needed to focus their growth on Asia-Pacific to leverage their existing investment there and create more attractive economies of scale in that region.


----------



## amy241

amy241 said:


> Marriott exercised ROFR on my $9500 Marriott Ko Olina purchase. Got the bad news tonight. Added to ROFR.net.



My decision came back in 9 days. There have been some new developments on their ROFR decision  that I am waiting to see how they play out before I report back on it.


----------



## catharsis

Just as a note, since I could not see anywhere on ROFR to post a message, but  the rofr.net site cannot be used for Grand Residence Club Tahoe quarter-ownerships.  I have a few experiences I'd like to post there but have been unable to post.

as an aside Marriott seem to have become very active indeed on exercising ROFR even on EOY weeks and things that previously seemed likely to slip through.  I'll update the site with my experiences sometime but have had lots of failures over past few months.


----------



## dioxide45

catharsis said:


> Just as a note, since I could not see anywhere on ROFR to post a message, but the rofr.net site cannot be used for Grand Residence Club Tahoe quarter-ownerships. I have a few experiences I'd like to post there but have been unable to post.


I probably need to add the "unit types" for GRC Tahoe.


----------



## GregT

I think @StevenTing reported $150M budgeted for ROFR funds.  I do not know if that number has been confirmed in a securities filing.

But let’s assume it’s true - and that Marriott will ROFR at an average of $5K/week.   I assume they let silver go and focus on Platinum and High Quality Gold.

Well $150M is 30,000 weeks, at $5K/apiece.  I think there are only 720K weeks in all of Marriott land - this is a major shift of high quality weeks to the Trust. 

Interesting to see. 

Best,

Greg


----------



## frank808

catharsis said:


> Just as a note, since I could not see anywhere on ROFR to post a message, but  the rofr.net site cannot be used for Grand Residence Club Tahoe quarter-ownerships.  I have a few experiences I'd like to post there but have been unable to post.
> 
> as an aside Marriott seem to have become very active indeed on exercising ROFR even on EOY weeks and things that previously seemed likely to slip through.  I'll update the site with my experiences sometime but have had lots of failures over past few months.


What has your experience been on marrriott rofr grand residence quarter shares?  Thanks

Sent from my SM-T217S using Tapatalk


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## catharsis

GRC 1 Bed/1 Bath Mid June. Failed  @ $31K
GRC 1 Bed/1 Bath Early July - Failed  @ $32.5K
GRC 1 Bed/1 Bath Mid July Failed @ $35K


----------



## TXTortoise

I haven't seen anything on ROFR.net, but I do wonder if there's an upper threshold they won't cross for high-value weeks like OF Lahaina/Napili which generally go for $25K on up.

I guess the GRC quarter shares translate into $2500/week, so still low cost/week opportunities.


----------



## frank808

catharsis said:


> GRC 1 Bed/1 Bath Mid June. Failed  @ $31K
> GRC 1 Bed/1 Bath Early July - Failed  @ $32.5K
> GRC 1 Bed/1 Bath Mid July Failed @ $35K


Thanks for the info!  Would you happen to know what a studio fractional is going for?  Prices are almost double about 7 years ago when we bought our units.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


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## Seaport104

frank808 said:


> Thanks for the info!  Would you happen to know what a studio fractional is going for?  Prices are almost double about 7 years ago when we bought our units.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk



The recent studio listings are in the $25k range.


----------



## frank808

Seaport104 said:


> The recent studio listings are in the $25k range.


Thanks again.  Seems like studios have more than doubled in price.

Sent from my SM-T217S using Tapatalk


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## catharsis

just to add another datapoint, 

GRC 1 bed/1Bath early august FAILED @ $38K


----------



## Seaport104

catharsis said:


> just to add another datapoint,
> 
> GRC 1 bed/1Bath early august FAILED @ $38K



WOW! Just in March there was a 2BR quarter at GR that passed for $50k. I am kicking myself for not picking that one up because I had seen it and was debating


----------



## TXTortoise

What are the MFs on quarters like this?


----------



## dioxide45

Pulling information on Grand Residence Club Lake Tahoe. I see the following different types of ownership;

Interest 01 5/52nds
Interest 02 5/52nds
Interest 03 5/52nds
Interest 04 5/52nds
Interest 05 5/52nds
Interest 06 5/52nds
Interest 07 5/52nds
Interest 08 5/52nds
Interest 09 3/52nds
Interest 10 5/52nds
Interest 11 5/52nds
Interest 12 3/52nds
Interest 12 5/52nds
Quarter I 1/4th
Quarter II 1/4th
Quarter III 1/4th
Quarter IV 1/4th

I am not sure what the 3/52 vs the 5/52, is there a difference? Do I perhaps have the 3/52nd identified wrong and they are really 5/52. Perhaps each interest can be a 3/52nd or 5/52nd? Quarter shares seem pretty straight forward. Just trying to determine what manner to add these to ROFR.net.


----------



## StevenTing

GregT said:


> I think @StevenTing reported $150M budgeted for ROFR funds.  I do not know if that number has been confirmed in a securities filing.



It was $180M and that is not something I’d expect to see in a filing since it’s not an “acquisition” of the normal type.


----------



## Seaport104

dioxide45 said:


> Pulling information on Grand Residence Club Lake Tahoe. I see the following different types of ownership;
> 
> Interest 01 5/52nds
> Interest 02 5/52nds
> Interest 03 5/52nds
> Interest 04 5/52nds
> Interest 05 5/52nds
> Interest 06 5/52nds
> Interest 07 5/52nds
> Interest 08 5/52nds
> Interest 09 3/52nds
> Interest 10 5/52nds
> Interest 11 5/52nds
> Interest 12 3/52nds
> Interest 12 5/52nds
> Quarter I 1/4th
> Quarter II 1/4th
> Quarter III 1/4th
> Quarter IV 1/4th
> 
> I am not sure what the 3/52 vs the 5/52, is there a difference? Do I perhaps have the 3/52nd identified wrong and they are really 5/52. Perhaps each interest can be a 3/52nd or 5/52nd? Quarter shares seem pretty straight forward. Just trying to determine what manner to add these to ROFR.net.




There are 3 week, 5 week and quarter share intervals for Grand Residence Lake Tahoe.


----------



## dioxide45

So more like this;

Interest 01 3/52nds
Interest 02 3/52nds
Interest 03 3/52nds
Interest 04 3/52nds
Interest 05 3/52nds
Interest 06 3/52nds
Interest 07 3/52nds
Interest 08 3/52nds
Interest 09 3/52nds
Interest 10 3/52nds
Interest 11 3/52nds
Interest 12 3/52nds

Interest 01 5/52nds
Interest 02 5/52nds
Interest 03 5/52nds
Interest 04 5/52nds
Interest 05 5/52nds
Interest 06 5/52nds
Interest 07 5/52nds
Interest 08 5/52nds
Interest 09 5/52nds
Interest 10 5/52nds
Interest 11 5/52nds
Interest 12 5/52nds

Quarter I 1/4th
Quarter II 1/4th
Quarter III 1/4th
Quarter IV 1/4th


----------



## Marathoner

StevenTing said:


> It was $180M and that is not something I’d expect to see in a filing since it’s not an “acquisition” of the normal type.



Considering the $180M number came from a salesperson, the number may not be reliable.  It is the case the CEO said that they will acquire more used inventory.  I am going through a relatively high-end weeks purchase.  If it gets ROFR-ed, I will be somewhat surprised due to the price but I suppose they do need a good inventory of premium holiday weeks in the Trust.


----------



## TXTortoise

Marathoner said:


> Considering the $180M number came from a salesperson, the number may not be reliable.  It is the case the CEO said that they will acquire more used inventory.  I am going through a relatively high-end weeks purchase.  If it gets ROFR-ed, I will be somewhat surprised due to the price but I suppose they do need a good inventory of premium holiday weeks in the Trust.



If it's a fractional purchase and the per week value is relatively low it might make sense for them to ROFR it.  If it's just a high value, let's say $30K+, for something like Maui then it might be a first.

JiminNC, and I believe GregT in the past, did some analysis of Trust Points value by week against ROFR price and conjecture was that if the cost/point value was below a certain threshold they would take it.  The unknowns were whether Marriott's ROFR budget operates on a weekly, monthly or annual basis.  For weekly or monthly, they could have lots of low value acquisitions leaving them more money to work with, while a month with a bunch of $10-$20K ROFRs might limit what gets taken.


----------



## Marathoner

TXTortoise said:


> If it's just a high value, let's say $30K+, for something like Maui then it might be a first.



I see that at MOC, the ROFR fails under $25K according to the ROFR database.  But the Trust has holiday Platinum Plus weeks and other high value 3BR weeks, so these must be coming through ROFR as they cannot all be repossessions.  So, I don't think that all $30K+ weeks will pass ROFR.  I suspect that it is simply not being entered into the ROFR database for some reason.


----------



## TXTortoise

I keep waiting to hear about one, just glad it wasn't for mine.  Almost nothing has failed for Lahaina tower in the past five years with a range from $10K to $65K.

Probably comes back to the cost/point theory.  Better value to ROFR a $17K MOC I floating week, than a Lahaina tower at twice the price.


----------



## Seaport104

dioxide45 said:


> So more like this;
> 
> Interest 01 3/52nds
> Interest 02 3/52nds
> Interest 03 3/52nds
> Interest 04 3/52nds
> Interest 05 3/52nds
> Interest 06 3/52nds
> Interest 07 3/52nds
> Interest 08 3/52nds
> Interest 09 3/52nds
> Interest 10 3/52nds
> Interest 11 3/52nds
> Interest 12 3/52nds
> 
> Interest 01 5/52nds
> Interest 02 5/52nds
> Interest 03 5/52nds
> Interest 04 5/52nds
> Interest 05 5/52nds
> Interest 06 5/52nds
> Interest 07 5/52nds
> Interest 08 5/52nds
> Interest 09 5/52nds
> Interest 10 5/52nds
> Interest 11 5/52nds
> Interest 12 5/52nds
> 
> Quarter I 1/4th
> Quarter II 1/4th
> Quarter III 1/4th
> Quarter IV 1/4th





No it's 4 three weeks and 8 five weeks intervals. Based on the GR point sheet the 5/3 weeks per year are:

Interest 01 5/52nds
Interest 02 5/52nds
Interest 03 5/52nds
Interest 04 5/52nds
Interest 05 5/52nds
Interest 06 5/52nds
Interest 07 5/52nds
Interest 08 5/52nds
Interest 09 3/52nds
Interest 10 3/52nds
Interest 11 3/52nds
Interest 12 3/52nds


----------



## dioxide45

Seaport104 said:


> No it's 4 three weeks and 8 five weeks intervals. Based on the GR point sheet the 5/3 weeks per year are:
> 
> Interest 01 5/52nds
> Interest 02 5/52nds
> Interest 03 5/52nds
> Interest 04 5/52nds
> Interest 05 5/52nds
> Interest 06 5/52nds
> Interest 07 5/52nds
> Interest 08 5/52nds
> Interest 09 3/52nds
> Interest 10 3/52nds
> Interest 11 3/52nds
> Interest 12 3/52nds


I think though that there are indeed Interest 12 5/52nds. I can see where the below are conveyed to the DC trust in some form. So some of the 09 through 12 must exist as 5/52nds.

Interest 01 5/52nds
Interest 02 5/52nds
Interest 03 5/52nds
Interest 04 5/52nds
Interest 05 5/52nds
Interest 06 5/52nds
Interest 07 5/52nds
Interest 08 5/52nds
Interest 09 3/52nds
Interest 10 5/52nds
Interest 11 5/52nds
Interest 12 3/52nds
Interest 12 5/52nds
Quarter I 1/4th
Quarter II 1/4th
Quarter III 1/4th
Quarter IV 1/4th


----------



## dioxide45

I guess I am just trying to understand the best way to put these in to the ROFR.net database so people can start logging them.


----------



## catharsis

Seaport104 said:


> WOW! Just in March there was a 2BR quarter at GR that passed for $50k. I am kicking myself for not picking that one up because I had seen it and was debating


thanks - glad I'm not the only one doing that  I guess


----------



## catharsis

TXTortoise said:


> If it's a fractional purchase and the per week value is relatively low it might make sense for them to ROFR it.  If it's just a high value, let's say $30K+, for something like Maui then it might be a first.
> 
> JiminNC, and I believe GregT in the past, did some analysis of Trust Points value by week against ROFR price and conjecture was that if the cost/point value was below a certain threshold they would take it.  The unknowns were whether Marriott's ROFR budget operates on a weekly, monthly or annual basis.  For weekly or monthly, they could have lots of low value acquisitions leaving them more money to work with, while a month with a bunch of $10-$20K ROFRs might limit what gets taken.


It was suggested to me by someone who might have knowledge of the subject that $2 per point is a metric used internally.


----------



## JIMinNC

catharsis said:


> It was suggested to me by someone who might have knowledge of the subject that $2 per point is a metric used internally.



I recently looked at the last 12 months or so of entries on ROFR.net for both phases of Maui Ocean Club and Waiohai and calculated the cost per point of the ROFR decision. It does seem many ROFR exercises occur at prices below $2/point, but there are some outliers, plus many that pass under $2/point. See attached image. Failures are noted in red


----------



## catharsis

Jim has done an excellent analysis which shows just how arbitrary the decision seems to be even for very similar units.

The number suggested to me was identified as a recent change in policy/valuation however, so I'm not sure how much an analysis that goes back more than a month or two tells us about what does feel to me like a tightening of policy this year 
(I will get around to posting all of my ROFR failures on cheap ebay weeks this year but MVC are certainly not letting much through cheap anymore.)


----------



## Seaport104

dioxide45 said:


> I guess I am just trying to understand the best way to put these in to the ROFR.net database so people can start logging them.



Does it really matter which interest or quarter? Maybe just 3 selections for type 3/52, 5/52 and 1/4 and the various unit sizes as a drop down?


----------



## dioxide45

Seaport104 said:


> Does it really matter which interest or quarter? Maybe just 3 selections for type 3/52, 5/52 and 1/4 and the various unit sizes as a drop down?


I suppose it doesn't. So what unit sizes do they have there?


----------



## jeff76543

It might matter if some interests were far more attractive than others as a result of different seasons. I imagine that if this is the case it would be reflected in prices and, perhaps, the price MVC would be willing to pay to exercise ROFR.


----------



## taterhed

I have two points/questions:  how many of the ROFR numbers submitted reflect the ACTUAL number submitted via the broker vs the contract amount between the broker and the buyer.  I'm guessing that at least some of these may include 'pay to sell' prices between the seller and broker.....or maybe I'm just confused.

Second, I'm wondering if Marriott ROFR dept.  actually has any subjective review processes in the ROFR decision.  Let's say they were discouraging a particular practice or broker or ????  I wonder. Otherwise, it would see to make no sense in some cases.


----------



## dioxide45

taterhed said:


> I have two points/questions:  how many of the ROFR numbers submitted reflect the ACTUAL number submitted via the broker vs the contract amount between the broker and the buyer.  I'm guessing that at least some of these may include 'pay to sell' prices between the seller and broker.....or maybe I'm just confused.
> 
> Second, I'm wondering if Marriott ROFR dept.  actually has any subjective review processes in the ROFR decision.  Let's say they were discouraging a particular practice or broker or ????  I wonder. Otherwise, it would see to make no sense in some cases.


I don't think anyone can answer your first question. Many people know that they simply won an auction for X dollars but have no idea what was actually submitted for ROFR. It could have been Y and included broker, closing and other fees. The ROFR.net database is simply based on user feedback and it also contains only a small fraction of all ROFR submitted.


----------



## Seaport104

dioxide45 said:


> I suppose it doesn't. So what unit sizes do they have there?



Not 100% sure of all the sizes but to my knowledge there are

1 BR/1 Bath
1 BR/2 Bath
2BR/2 Bath
2BR/3 Bath
3 BR/4 Bath
3 BR Loft
3 BR Penthouse

This website, run by a GR owner, who rents out a lot of units for owners lists the various types of units.

http://heavenlyvillagecondos.com/Room_Types.html



jeff76543 said:


> It might matter if some interests were far more attractive than others as a result of different seasons. I imagine that if this is the case it would be reflected in prices and, perhaps, the price MVC would be willing to pay to exercise ROFR.



For the quarter ownerships, I don't think it matters much because all the weeks are rotated each year so that every owner gets the same week every 4 years. For the 5 and 3 week memberships, I think you're right. Those are I think based on season so that would definitely affect pricing.


----------



## frank808

Quarter shares are 13 weeks and 5/52 are 4 week ownerships.  I dont remember anything smaller than 4 weeks at grc.  I could be wrong but I was mainly interested in quarter shares.

Wow $38k for a 1br is good appreciation.  The only other timeshare I can make money on besides dvc in all these years.



dioxide45 said:


> Pulling information on Grand Residence Club Lake Tahoe. I see the following different types of ownership;
> 
> Interest 01 5/52nds
> Interest 02 5/52nds
> Interest 03 5/52nds
> Interest 04 5/52nds
> Interest 05 5/52nds
> Interest 06 5/52nds
> Interest 07 5/52nds
> Interest 08 5/52nds
> Interest 09 3/52nds
> Interest 10 5/52nds
> Interest 11 5/52nds
> Interest 12 3/52nds
> Interest 12 5/52nds
> Quarter I 1/4th
> Quarter II 1/4th
> Quarter III 1/4th
> Quarter IV 1/4th
> 
> I am not sure what the 3/52 vs the 5/52, is there a difference? Do I perhaps have the 3/52nd identified wrong and they are really 5/52. Perhaps each interest can be a 3/52nd or 5/52nd? Quarter shares seem pretty straight forward. Just trying to determine what manner to add these to ROFR.net.





Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


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## johnf0614

Lost another. 2 BR EOY Grand Chateau. Added to the database. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## NYFLTRAVELER

I saw a 2br/2ba annual floating platinum @ Aruba Ocean club recently go on eBay for a “winning bid”of approx. $3900.what are the odds something like this passes rofr?


----------



## Seaport104

NYFLTRAVELER said:


> I saw a 2br/2ba annual floating platinum @ Aruba Ocean club recently go on eBay for a “winning bid”of approx. $3900.what are the odds something like this passes rofr?



Probably will not pass and I think one of the reasons why the bid is so low is the seller. If it were another seller I would have bid on it.


----------



## StevenTing

johnf0614 said:


> Lost another. 2 BR EOY Grand Chateau. Added to the database.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



Interesting.  I thought GC didn’t have ROFR.


----------



## johnf0614

StevenTing said:


> Interesting.  I thought GC didn’t have ROFR.



They have 15 days. And they went up to the 14th day to decide on the one I was attempting to purchase. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## amy241

Using some of the theories on this thread, we restructured my purchase offer on a Marriott Ko Olina oceanview week to provide occupancy to begin in 2020 with a reservation for me in 2019 (and my agreement to pay the 2019 MFs) and they still exercised ROFR. I had hoped where they did not have usage in 2019, they would pass on the purchase but they did not.


----------



## Mlvnsmly

amy241 said:


> Using some of the theories on this thread, we restructured my purchase offer on a Marriott Ko Olina oceanview week to provide occupancy to begin in 2020 with a reservation for me in 2019 (and my agreement to pay the 2019 MFs) and they still exercised ROFR. I had hoped where they did not have usage in 2019, they would pass on the purchase but they did not.


Was this a second one, or the same one you already reported?


----------



## taterhed

Nice try....


----------



## amy241

Mlvnsmly said:


> Was this a second one, or the same one you already reported?



It was the same unit involving two different contracts. The first contract was for 2019 occupancy, with a reservation already booked for me by the owner for June 2019. They said they were exercising ROFR and called the broker and asked her to cancel it which she refused.  So we executed a second contract for sale, this time specifying 2020 occupancy but subject to my existing 2019 reservation already set up for me by the seller. I got word today that they were exercising ROFR on the unit. I have asked the broker what happens to my reservation for 2019 and she has put a call in to MVC.

I always thought they stood in the buyer’s shoes when exercising ROFR and could not change terms, etc.I would think they would have to purchase subject to an existing reservation. I mean for all they know, the buyer could have leased that 2019 week already and collected payment. This just does not seem right to me. Anyone have any thoughts on this?


----------



## amy241

taterhed said:


> Nice try....



Back to the drawing board. I elaborated on what happened in the next post below yours.


----------



## taterhed

Uhm. 

Depends on how the contract is written.  They are accepting or refusing the contract, not cherry picking the unit whenever they like.
Of course, if the contract language is unenforceable....then it's a different kettle of fish.

If the contract isn't 'hinky,' I think the seller is entitled to the full payment, 2020 first use, and may exercise control of the 2019 use if it's paid for.
Of course, if the contract is exercised prior to payment of MF's etc.... then things could change.
Marriott will send a contract that specifies the terms of the ROFR.  The seller is NOT required to sign the contract AFAIK.....if it doesn't match the terms of the original agreement substantially.  Of course, time is of the essence, equivalent payment (no Mf's no 2019 use) could be valid under the ROFR terms.  Who knows?  I didn't read the ROFR page very well....I'll go look.

You know, I think the seller can decline sale and resubmit later (maybe Dec?), but at some point.....they will force the issue.

I'm not a lawyer and I have no idea what I'm talking about.....but you get the gist.


----------



## amy241

taterhed said:


> Uhm.
> 
> Depends on how the contract is written.  They are accepting or refusing the contract, not cherry picking the unit whenever they like.
> Of course, if the contract language is unenforceable....then it's a different kettle of fish.
> 
> If the contract isn't 'hinky,' I think the seller is entitled to the full payment, 2020 first use, and may exercise control of the 2019 use if it's paid for.
> Of course, if the contract is exercised prior to payment of MF's etc.... then things could change.
> Marriott will send a contract that specifies the terms of the ROFR.  The seller is NOT required to sign the contract AFAIK.....if it doesn't match the terms of the original agreement substantially.  Of course, time is of the essence, equivalent payment (no Mf's no 2019 use) could be valid under the ROFR terms.  Who knows?  I didn't read the ROFR page very well....I'll go look.
> 
> You know, I think the seller can decline sale and resubmit later (maybe Dec?), but at some point.....they will force the issue.
> 
> I'm not a lawyer and I have no idea what I'm talking about.....but you get the gist.



Thanks, Rob, I never saw what the broker submitted to Marriott so I have no idea how it was worded. I don’t think the seller would decline the sale as she is elderly and wants to be rid of it. So assuming Marriott agrees to meet the same terms, I’m sure she will proceed.

Geez, it’s getting really difficult to get one through at a good price. I’m wondering what the magic number is — what is the lowest price that will make it through ROFR. It looks like one failed in July for $10K. Another made it through for 7K in March though. I can’t seem to make any sense of their actions on discrepant prices.


----------



## TXTortoise

From another thread, you might calculate the value per DP that Marriot is buying at, though your March vs July example shows the inconsistency. 

While no consistent curve for that, it would seem to be the best metric going forward.  Mostly we need more data points as it seems they have more ROFR dollars and are executing to that, than what ROFR.net has historically shown.


----------



## amy241

TXTortoise said:


> From another thread, you might calculate the value per DP that Marriot is buying at, though your March vs July example shows the inconsistency.
> 
> While no consistent curve for that, it would seem to be the best metric going forward.  Mostly we need more data points as it seems they have more ROFR dollars and are executing to that, than what ROFR.net has historically shown.



How do you know the points value for an MKO oceanview week?


----------



## amy241

JIMinNC said:


> I recently looked at the last 12 months or so of entries on ROFR.net for both phases of Maui Ocean Club and Waiohai and calculated the cost per point of the ROFR decision. It does seem many ROFR exercises occur at prices below $2/point, but there are some outliers, plus many that pass under $2/point. See attached image. Failures are noted in red
> 
> View attachment 7768



Jim, where did you get the points values for these weeks? I’m looking for the points value for a Marriott Ko Olina oceanview week.


----------



## Fasttr

amy241 said:


> Jim, where did you get the points values for these weeks? I’m looking for the points value for a Marriott Ko Olina oceanview week.


https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...ufN5LoXo9b9eJhegQ326PFHBP8/edit#gid=917704386

This can always be found at www.vacationpointexchange.com by clicking on Marriott MF's in the top menu bar as TUGger StevenTing maintains the data and houses it there.


----------



## amy241

Fasttr said:


> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...ufN5LoXo9b9eJhegQ326PFHBP8/edit#gid=917704386
> 
> This can always be found at www.vacationpointexchange.com by clicking on Marriott MF's in the top menu bar as TUGger StevenTing maintains the data and houses it there.



Thank you!


----------



## dioxide45

amy241 said:


> Using some of the theories on this thread, we restructured my purchase offer on a Marriott Ko Olina oceanview week to provide occupancy to begin in 2020 with a reservation for me in 2019 (and my agreement to pay the 2019 MFs) and they still exercised ROFR. I had hoped where they did not have usage in 2019, they would pass on the purchase but they did not.


Marriott would take the contract exactly as written. I don't understand how this would have any more likelihood of passing. Marriott takes it and pays the 2019 MF and gets 2019 usage. It seems you tried to structure it like the seller kept usage but you paid the MF? I don't quite understand.


----------



## amy241

dioxide45 said:


> Marriott would take the contract exactly as written. I don't understand how this would have any more likelihood of passing. Marriott takes it and pays the 2019 MF and gets 2019 usage. It seems you tried to structure it like the seller kept usage but you paid the MF? I don't quite understand.



The reservation was set up for us by the seller for 2019 after we signed the first contract. We had asked them to secure a summer week for us since the window for summmer 2019 is now open. Marriott told the broker they were exercising and wanted the broker to cancel the reservation.

She came back to me and recommended a new contract be submitted with changes. In the second contract, the broker changed usage to 2020 and put in this as additional terms: “Buyer is responsible for the 2019 maintenance fee in the approximate amount of $2,210.24. Buyer will receive use of the 2019 reservation for the dates of June 22nd – June 29th, 2019.”

I guess the hope was that with usage already booked for 2019 in terms of an actual reservation made,  they might decide to pass on it. My question now is what happens to our reservation? Will they honor it or will they simply cancel?


----------



## catharsis

GRC 1 Bed 1 Bath Quarter $40,500 Failed

I'm taking any advice that is out there in terms of structuring the contract to lower my out of pocket costs while inflating the total saleprice/cost price to Marriott.

Worth noting that GRC quarters have usage each month so there could be some wiggle room there I guess, bundling the MF fr the remainder of the year as  part of the sales price?

Any other suggestions?


----------



## Seaport104

catharsis said:


> GRC 1 Bed 1 Bath Quarter $40,500 Failed
> 
> I'm taking any advice that is out there in terms of structuring the contract to lower my out of pocket costs while inflating the total saleprice/cost price to Marriott.
> 
> Worth noting that GRC quarters have usage each month so there could be some wiggle room there I guess, bundling the MF fr the remainder of the year as  part of the sales price?
> 
> Any other suggestions?



WOW, I would wait until they have less funds for ROFR. They were just allocated the funds. At that rate, all the inventory will be gone with ROFR.


----------



## taterhed

amy241 said:


> The reservation was set up for us by the seller for 2019 after we signed the first contract. We had asked them to secure a summer week for us since the window for summer 2019 is now open. Marriott told the broker they were exercising and wanted the broker to cancel the reservation.
> 
> She came back to me and recommended a new contract be submitted with changes. In the second contract, the broker changed usage to 2020 and put in this as additional terms: “Buyer is responsible for the 2019 maintenance fee in the approximate amount of $2,210.24. Buyer will receive use of the 2019 reservation for the dates of June 22nd – June 29th, 2019.”
> 
> I guess the hope was that with usage already booked for 2019 in terms of an actual reservation made,  they might decide to pass on it. My question now is what happens to our reservation? Will they honor it or will they simply cancel?



Yeah, so that would not help ROFR.  Marriott is now the buyer and has full rights to 2019 usage
Marriott has every right to assume the contract as 'buyer' and take the 2019 reservation.  I thought you might have structured the contract for first use 2020 and raised the contract price by 2019 MF's. That would require the seller to book the unit and pre-pay the 2019 MF's. The seller would retain control of 2019 reservation and occupancy/rental rights.  As such, if you wished to occupy the 2019 reservation, you would require a separate agreement outside of the MKO resale contract to secure your rental/occupancy rights for 2019 use.  The price for this rental would be as-agreed by you and the owner (ne seller).  Of course, this enters into a grey area of 'agreements external to the contract' attempting to thwart Marriott's legal right of first refusal. Perhaps you should just sign a 'cheap' rental contract and _then_ buy a unit with 2020 use.  Or, line 'em up and bump the price $250-500 each time.  It'll pass. Especially in Dec-Feb.  I'm pretty sure you can make MKO reservations 6 mos out...with just a bit of flexibility.  Lot's of units there.  Others can provide advice.
No, I do not wish to have a discussion of ethics and laws related to ROFR and rental/real property contracts.

I'm not a lawyer, and my advice is worthless.


----------



## lockewong

I don't know if this is the right way to post this information.  My offer for Marriott Maui Ocean Club, EOY, Ocean View, 1-Bedroom, 1-Bath failed for $3850.  The 2018 week was not booked but I would have been responsible for the fees.  Closing to be paid by seller.  They exercised the ROFR on Friday, August 17th.


----------



## Theiggy

lockewong said:


> I don't know if this is the right way to post this information.  My offer for Marriott Maui Ocean Club, EOY, Ocean View, 1-Bedroom, 1-Bath failed for $3850.  The 2018 week was not booked but I would have been responsible for the fees.  Closing to be paid by seller.  They exercised the ROFR on Friday, August 17th.



Yes this is a good place to post. Also post to ROFR.net


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## catharsis

Just thinking aloud here.

(Assuming seller is willing)

Dies increasing the price by the 2019 MFs and stating in the contract that the seller will pay 2019 MFs but that the buyer will get 2019 usage make any difference to the ROFR calculation or would Marriott simply be happy to step into the shoes of the buyer?


Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk


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## amy241

catharsis said:


> Just thinking aloud here.
> 
> (Assuming seller is willing)
> 
> Dies increasing the price by the 2019 MFs and stating in the contract that the seller will pay 2019 MFs but that the buyer will get 2019 usage make any difference to the ROFR calculation or would Marriott simply be happy to step into the shoes of the buyer?
> 
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk



Now this is a very interesting idea or approach. I certainly did not think of this. I would be curious to hear what fellow TUGgers think of your idea.


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## johnf0614

amy241 said:


> Now this is a very interesting idea or approach. I certainly did not think of this. I would be curious to hear what fellow TUGgers think of your idea.



Honestly. I don’t think it matters to them at all. They are all out buying everything back regardless of price. I don’t think by being creative on use MF’s really matters to them. They want the deeds back to resell at higher costs. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Mlvnsmly

johnf0614 said:


> Honestly. I don’t think it matters to them at all. They are all out buying everything back regardless of price. I don’t think by being creative on use MF’s really matters to them. They want the deeds back to resell at higher costs.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



This.  It seems to be totally pointless to try to buy a resale week right now.


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## johnf0614

Mlvnsmly said:


> This.  It seems to be totally pointless to try to buy a resale week right now.



Agreed. I’m 0 for 4 this summer. I’ll just wait till they use up their ROFR budget and attempt again at a later time. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## bazzap

This is probably location and deeded v RTU resort based.
We are 1 for 1 this Summer, but in Europe.


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## amy241

johnf0614 said:


> Agreed. I’m 0 for 4 this summer. I’ll just wait till they use up their ROFR budget and attempt again at a later time.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



I hear you. No one wants to overpay for a week right now. I keep raising my offers. I wonder when they will run out of the big ROFR budget?


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## catharsis

I've lost a club son antem this summer to ROFR also

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk


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## bazzap

catharsis said:


> I've lost a club son antem this summer to ROFR also
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk


That is a shame, as it was a Club Son Antem week that passed ROFR for me.


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## lisa3635

I'll post on rofr.net too, but I just had ROFR WAIVED on a Gold Marriott Grande Ocean week for $4450.  They ROFRed the one I tried buying a few weeks ago so I was excited to see it waived.


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## johnf0614

Great news. What was the difference in purchase price if you don’t mind me asking. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## lisa3635

johnf0614 said:


> Great news. What was the difference in purchase price if you don’t mind me asking.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



$450, this one also had a week booked for next year and the other one did not.


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## johnf0614

lisa3635 said:


> $450, this one also had a week booked for next year and the other one did not.



Nice! Great news


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## TXTortoise

Well, a beautiful set of MOC Lahaina 2BR fixed weeks, Unit 8210, are off the market. Marriott took them at $20k each. :-(

Weeks 3-4


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## JIMinNC

TXTortoise said:


> Well, a beautiful set of MOC Lahaina 2BR fixed weeks, Unit 8210, are off the market. Marriott took them at $20k each. :-(
> 
> Weeks 3-4



That's too bad. I know you were hoping to get that great deal. But each of those units adds 7475 points to the Trust, and at $20K each, that's only $2.68/point inventory cost for MVC and they can then turn around and sell those same points at $11+ after discounts. That $9 margin can cover a lot of "overhead."


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## GregT

TXTortoise said:


> Well, a beautiful set of MOC Lahaina 2BR fixed weeks, Unit 8210, are off the market. Marriott took them at $20k each. :-(
> 
> Weeks 3-4


Wow, that is a good unit (I think that is Emmy’s unit) and I’m sure you had great fixed weeks picked out.  I’m sorry to hear it and that would have been an amazing price.  Good luck and I hope you get another set!

Best,

Greg


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## Mlvnsmly

lisa3635 said:


> $450, this one also had a week booked for next year and the other one did not.



Its nice to see a resale go through!  What dates were both submitted to Marriott?


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## TXTortoise

Hi Greg, it wasn’t Emmy’s. Her week is in March, but same unit.  I’d been watching these two weeks for over a year, but wanted 7210.  When his price kept dropping I made an offer and he took it.  Guess both of us were wishing I’d gone higher. 

Jim’s comment is right on target. Wish we had more data points on the price/point curve for ROFR. At this rate we may soon. 

Would have given me more options for when to visit for sure and great rental when not. 

I was so focused on total cost, ROFR didn’t really cross my mind.  I bet this might have gotten through six months ago, but new reality.


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## lisa3635

Mlvnsmly said:


> Its nice to see a resale go through!  What dates were both submitted to Marriott?



I think it was submitted August 11 and waived yesterday.


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## JIMinNC

TXTortoise said:


> Hi Greg, it wasn’t Emmy’s. Her week is in March, but same unit.  I’d been watching these two weeks for over a year, but wanted 7210.  When his price kept dropping I made an offer and he took it.  Guess both of us were wishing I’d gone higher.
> 
> Jim’s comment is right on target. Wish we had more data points on the price/point curve for ROFR. At this rate we may soon.
> 
> Would have given me more options for when to visit for sure and great rental when not.
> 
> I was so focused on total cost, ROFR didn’t really cross my mind.  I bet this might have gotten through six months ago, but new reality.



I think if I were looking to make an offer on a week right now, and if it was a week that I really wanted and one that didn't show up very often, I think I would be inclined to offer _*at least*_ $3.00 to $3.25 per point based on the DP point value for that week - maybe even $3.50 if I really wanted to increase my chances of passing. I think it's futile to try to analytically find the precise break-point in the ROFR exercise/pass curve as there are so many variables we don't know (i.e. - the accuracy of the data posted on ROFR.net, and whether the price posted was indeed what was submitted by the seller to MVC). I do think we can see that as the price gets over about $3/point, the likelihood of ROFR starts to drop. It may still get ROFR'd, but the odds improve. Similarly, the break point on Destination Points ROFR seems to be in that same $3.25/point to $4.00/point range.

I wish I had the time to expand my analysis in post #827 to more than just those three Hawaii resorts. Would be great if there was a way to export the ROFR.net data into Excel and then merge it in some way with the point value data for each transaction using the data from Steven Ting's Google Docs spreadsheet.


----------



## dioxide45

JIMinNC said:


> Would be great if there was a way to export the ROFR.net data into Excel and then merge it in some way with the point value data for each transaction using the data from Steven Ting's Google Docs spreadsheet.


It is possible. The ROFR.net database does include some point values for each resort/season/week, but I don't know how complete it is. I would have to see about getting a report that can pull the information together since the results of ROFR are stored in a different table than the point values.


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## hangloose

TXTortoise said:


> Well, a beautiful set of MOC Lahaina 2BR fixed weeks, Unit 8210, are off the market. Marriott took them at $20k each. :-(
> 
> Weeks 3-4



Ralph - Great weeks at a great price.  Bummer that MVC took them via ROFR.   Appears they are taking nearly everything right now.  But, not many reports of ROFR at 20k/week.  Guess the fixed OF Maui hit the mark for MVC paying more.  Thinking positively...perhaps this is a sign that...your 7210 will come up down the road instead of 8210.


----------



## GregT

hangloose said:


> Ralph - Great weeks at a great price.  Bummer that MVC took them via ROFR.   Appears they are taking nearly everything right now.  But, not many reports of ROFR at 20k/week.  Guess the fixed OF Maui hit the mark for MVC paying more.  Thinking positively...perhaps this is a sign that...your 7210 will come up down the road instead of 8210.



Ralph,

This leads to an interesting idea.  Why not reach out to the 7210 owner and provide them a copy of the purchase (ROfR’d) contract as evidence of truly MV - and offer them $25K or $30K?

May be enough. Good luck and thanks!

Best,

Greg


----------



## TXTortoise

Owner of three week 7210 string still not interested in selling. Missed it by a quarter.  For sale 4qtr 2016, then decided to rent them. (At least I was able to identify them after 2018 visit.) That’s why I moved on the 8210 pair. 

Still tracking down owner of Week 8. No luck with note under door last year, but will be out there that week in 2019 and will try again. 

Happy to have my 2BR OF old building float to fill my inside straight as needed.


----------



## MOXJO7282

TXTortoise said:


> Well, a beautiful set of MOC Lahaina 2BR fixed weeks, Unit 8210, are off the market. Marriott took them at $20k each. :-(
> 
> Weeks 3-4


That totally stinks!  I just had a Lahaina OV pass at $21k. Not quite the deal and not OF but I was still a little worried with Marriott's recent pattern.


----------



## JIMinNC

MOXJO7282 said:


> That totally stinks!  I just had a Lahaina OV pass at $21k. Not quite the deal and not OF but I was still a little worried with Marriott's recent pattern.



A Lahaina OV is worth 6625 DPs, so at $21,000, that would have been a $3.17 per point cost to Marriott. It sure seems somewhere around or just above that $3/point area is where things start getting more likely to pass. With what's going on now, I feel much better about my $8,000 EOY 2BR OV in the original towers that passed back in January. That price netted out to $2.75/point, but they let it go. Maybe they have a lower threshold for EOY weeks or they weren't being as aggressive then?


----------



## amy241

I just submitted another offer for $11,000 for a Marriott Ko Olina Oceanview Platinum week. I’ll keep my fingers crossed. I’ll post what happens here and on ROFR.net. Not sure if this is going to be high enough to pass given Marriott’s more aggressive approach.


----------



## TXTortoise

JIMinNC said:


> A Lahaina OV is worth 6625 DPs, so at $21,000, that would have been a $3.17 per point cost to Marriott. It sure seems somewhere around or just above that $3/point area is where things start getting more likely to pass. With what's going on now, I feel much better about my $8,000 EOY 2BR OV in the original towers that passed back in January. That price netted out to $2.75/point, but they let it go. Maybe they have a lower threshold for EOY weeks or they weren't being as aggressive then?



Yeah, I really didn’t want to pay more, due to total cost, but should have done some regression at price/points since we’d just been discussing that.  Could be two EOY weeks may be the niche for value, if one can find even and odd that works.  Not sure why Marriott would care as they all go in the points pool.


----------



## JIMinNC

dioxide45 said:


> It is possible. The ROFR.net database does include some point values for each resort/season/week, but I don't know how complete it is. I would have to see about getting a report that can pull the information together since the results of ROFR are stored in a different table than the point values.



Even if all the point values can't be merged automatically on your end, as long as the ROFR data was in an Excel sheet with all the relevant data showing date, size, view, EY/EOY, pass/fail, etc. in separate columns, it might not be that onerous to add Steven's data manually and do the calculation.Would probably want to restrict the data to the last 12-18 months for relevance, anyway, so that would limit to some degree the number of data points. How many Marriott ROFR transactions have been posted in the last 12-18 months?


----------



## MOXJO7282

So $21k was not low enough for MVC to snag an OV but a OF at the same price was taken. I would bet the OF number is $23k or maybe $24k.


----------



## JIMinNC

MOXJO7282 said:


> So $21k was not low enough for MVC to snag an OV but a OF at the same price was taken. I would bet the OF number is $23k or maybe $24k.



That would be my guess as well. Comes out to about $3.10 - $3.25/per point for L/N Villas. Nothing with ROFR is guaranteed, but if I were looking for one of those, I would be reluctant to contract to buy at prices under about what you suggest. Prices in that range at least give you a decent chance to pass, I think.


----------



## amy241

Marriott exercised ROFR on my $11,000 Marriott Ko Olina oceanview platinum week yesterday. Strike 2.  Syed says they are buying back all the oceanview weeks lately.  I will add this to ROFR.net.


----------



## JIMinNC

Thanks to dioxide45 for providing me an Excel export of the data in the ROFR.net database so I could do a little number crunching on the pass/fail metrics. Fortunately, that export contained the DC point value for most of the weeks in the data, but I used Steven Ting's online Google doc to fill in the few gaps. For now, I limited my analysis to the last 12 months, but might go back later to do another year or two. Not sure it would be worthwhile to go back farther than that, though, especially since what the data shows so far isn't particularly revealing.

The image below summarizes 203 ROFR.net entries over the last 12 months. I calculated the price per DC Point for each and looked at whether they passed or failed. The logic of this is as I mentioned in a post above -- if MVC is using ROFR to add inventory to the Trust, they would look at what exercising ROFR would cost them per point added to the Trust. That might not be the ONLY consideration in the decision, but it should be a key factor. I looked at pass/fail rates in roughly $0.50/point increments between $2/point and $4/point and the rates above and below those levels.

Here are the key data points as I see them:

Overall, 52% of ROFR.net submissions passed ROFR
Almost two-thirds of the submissions were at prices that resulted in a price/point of under $2/point. Only 46% of those passed.
There were only 21 submissions reported at $4/point or more and 62% of those passed
Between $2/point and $4/point, the pass rate was also 62%.
The $0.50 increment breakdown results in small sample sizes in each category, so I'm not sure the variations seen in those increments really mean anything other than random variation.





Before I started this, based on the preliminary work I did a week or two ago looking at Hawaii ROFR, I would have theorized that somewhere around $3/point was the sweet spot for having a decent shot at getting past ROFR. But when we look at all 203 entries in ROFR.net over the last year, it appears you have just as much of a shot with an offer of $2/point or more.

One significant item from the detail data can be seen in this next screen shot. Of the *ROFR Failures* at prices over $3/point, *all but one* were points resales. So, all but one of the *fifteen weeks* that were submitted at a price that resulted in a per point cost of $3/point or more, passed ROFR. That's a pass rate of 93% for weeks.

I didn't do a detailed isolation of weeks versus points below $3/point, but just eye-balling the data, the VAST majority of the ROFR submissions below $3/point are weeks, so the pass rate below $3/point for weeks would likely be very close to the 49% overall average noted in the first image above. So the passage rate for weeks of 93% above $3/point versus about 50% or so below that, is a significant variation.

There were 25 DC points resales submitted above $3/point, of those, 11 passed and 14 failed, a pass rate of only 44%. Above $4/point, the were 15 entries, and 7 passed, for a pass rate of only 47%. There were only two at $4.50/point or above - one failed and one passed. Points seem to fail at a much higher price than weeks. Not sure why if they all go back into the Trust.





So, based on all of this, I would conclude the following:

ROFR does still appear somewhat random, even when looking at the data very organically.
If you want the best chances to pass for a resale week, always make sure your offer is more than $2/point based on the DC point value of the week.
If you are after a hard-to-find week that you don't want to risk failing, offering over $3/point may be prudent.
For DC Points resales, you probably need to be at $4/point or more to have a good chance of passage, and even then, the odds appear to be 50-50 at best.
As always, we need to remember though that these results are only as good as the underlying data, and ROFR.net is still a user-sourced database, so the data entered may not be consistent.

I'm glad I didn't have to spend more than a couple hours doing this, because it didn't provide as conclusive an answer as I thought it might.


----------



## Fasttr

^^^. Thanks for the work anyhow Jim.


----------



## amy241

JIMinNC said:


> Thanks to dioxide45 for providing me an Excel export of the data in the ROFR.net database so I could do a little number crunching on the pass/fail metrics. Fortunately, that export contained the DC point value for most of the weeks in the data, but I used Steven Ting's online Google doc to fill in the few gaps. For now, I limited my analysis to the last 12 months, but might go back later to do another year or two. Not sure it would be worthwhile to go back farther than that, though, especially since what the data shows so far isn't particularly revealing.
> 
> The image below summarizes 203 ROFR.net entries over the last 12 months. I calculated the price per DC Point for each and looked at whether they passed or failed. The logic of this is as I mentioned in a post above -- if MVC is using ROFR to add inventory to the Trust, they would look at what exercising ROFR would cost them per point added to the Trust. That might not be the ONLY consideration in the decision, but it should be a key factor. I looked at pass/fail rates in roughly $0.50/point increments between $2/point and $4/point and the rates above and below those levels.
> 
> Here are the key data points as I see them:
> 
> Overall, 52% of ROFR.net submissions passed ROFR
> Almost two-thirds of the submissions were at prices that resulted in a price/point of under $2/point. Only 46% of those passed.
> There were only 21 submissions reported at $4/point or more and 62% of those passed
> Between $2/point and $4/point, the pass rate was also 62%.
> The $0.50 increment breakdown results in small sample sizes in each category, so I'm not sure the variations seen in those increments really mean anything other than random variation.
> 
> View attachment 8053
> 
> Before I started this, based on the preliminary work I did a week or two ago looking at Hawaii ROFR, I would have theorized that somewhere around $3/point was the sweet spot for having a decent shot at getting past ROFR. But when we look at all 203 entries in ROFR.net over the last year, it appears you have just as much of a shot with an offer of $2/point or more.
> 
> One significant item from the detail data can be seen in this next screen shot. Of the *ROFR Failures* at prices over $3/point, *all but one* were points resales. So, all but one of the *fifteen weeks* that were submitted at a price that resulted in a per point cost of $3/point or more, passed ROFR. That's a pass rate of 93% for weeks.
> 
> I didn't do a detailed isolation of weeks versus points below $3/point, but just eye-balling the data, the VAST majority of the ROFR submissions below $3/point are weeks, so the pass rate below $3/point for weeks would likely be very close to the 49% overall average noted in the first image above. So the passage rate for weeks of 93% above $3/point versus about 50% or so below that, is a significant variation.
> 
> There were 25 DC points resales submitted above $3/point, of those, 11 passed and 14 failed, a pass rate of only 44%. Above $4/point, the were 15 entries, and 7 passed, for a pass rate of only 47%. There were only two at $4.50/point or above - one failed and one passed. Points seem to fail at a much higher price than weeks. Not sure why if they all go back into the Trust.
> 
> View attachment 8055
> 
> So, based on all of this, I would conclude the following:
> 
> ROFR does still appear somewhat random, even when looking at the data very organically.
> If you want the best chances to pass for a resale week, always make sure your offer is more than $2/point based on the DC point value of the week.
> If you are after a hard-to-find week that you don't want to risk failing, offering over $3/point may be prudent.
> For DC Points resales, you probably need to be at $4/point or more to have a good chance of passage, and even then, the odds appear to be 50-50 at best.
> As always, we need to remember though that these results are only as good as the underlying data, and ROFR.net is still a user-sourced database, so the data entered may not be consistent.
> 
> I'm glad I didn't have to spend more than a couple hours doing this, because it didn't provide as conclusive an answer as I thought it might.



So based upon your research, what offer do you predict would be needed for a Ko Olina week to pass?


----------



## vacationtime1

JIMinNC said:


> I'm glad I didn't have to spend more than a couple hours doing this, because it didn't provide as conclusive an answer as I thought it might.



I find your answer to be extremely useful, even if counterintuitive.  You are showing that Marriott continues to act inconsistently on ROFR -- especially on ROFR submissions for DC points.  This reinforces the TUG mantra of "if you don't succeed, try again".  Many should take encouragement from that.

It might be interesting to sort your data set by date rather than price; we are all reading the Marriott has been getting more aggressive about ROFR.  If you did the same analysis using ROFR data drawn from the second half of 2018 only, would you get the same result?  Perhaps we will know in early 2019.


----------



## Steve Fatula

vacationtime1 said:


> I find your answer to be extremely useful, even if counterintuitive.  You are showing that Marriott continues to act inconsistently on ROFR -- especially on ROFR submissions for DC points.  This reinforces the TUG mantra of "if you don't succeed, try again".  Many should take encouragement from that.



And to expand a little, it means that one doesn't have to just keep upping the price on DC points, as counter intuitive as that may seem. Obviously, it will always appear that if you offer $4, fails ROFR, go to $4.50, fails ROFR, and go to $5 and it passes, that your increasing offers caused the success. When it could also have been 3 offers of $4 each would have resulted in a pass as well. A little patience and you may be rewarded.


----------



## TXTortoise

It also reinforces, that at least for Hawaii fixed weeks, you really only get one chance for a particularly week and unit, i.e., no do-overs like with points and floating weeks...


----------



## JIMinNC

amy241 said:


> So based upon your research, what offer do you predict would be needed for a Ko Olina week to pass?



Here are the point values for KoOlina (all Platinum season) and the prices that would correspond to $2/point and $3/point:
2BR Mountain View -- 4025 -- @ $2/point: $8,050;  @ $3/point: $12,075
2BR Ocean View -- 4950 -- @ $2/point: $9,900;  @ $3/point: $14,850
2BR Penthouse OV -- 5925 -- @ $2/point: $11,850;  @ $3/point: $17,775
3BR Mountain View -- 5125 -- @ $2/point: $10,250;  @ $3/point: $15,375
3BR Ocean View -- 6550 -- @ $2/point: $13,100;  @ $3/point: $19,650

Based on the data, I would guess anything over the $2/point prices would have a better than 50%-60% chase of passing, but failure would not be a surprising outcome either. If you want to be more certain, especially if it is a week that doesn't show up that often, maybe offer closer to or over the $3/point price. As always, these are based on the accuracy or inaccuracy of the underlying data, so YMMV.

Your $11K price you posted above for, I assume a 2BR OV worth 4950 points, equates to $2.22/point. Not unreasonable to think it *could* have passed based on the data, but as I noted above, over $3/point has a pass rate of 93% for WEEKS.


----------



## amy241

JIMinNC said:


> Here are the point values for KoOlina (all Platinum season) and the prices that would correspond to $2/point and $3/point:
> 2BR Mountain View -- 4025 -- @ $2/point: $8,050;  @ $3/point: $12,075
> 2BR Ocean View -- 4950 -- @ $2/point: $9,900;  @ $3/point: $14,850
> 2BR Penthouse OV -- 5925 -- @ $2/point: $11,850;  @ $3/point: $17,775
> 3BR Mountain View -- 5125 -- @ $2/point: $10,250;  @ $3/point: $15,375
> 3BR Ocean View -- 6550 -- @ $2/point: $13,100;  @ $3/point: $19,650
> 
> Based on the data, I would guess anything over the $2/point prices would have a better than 50%-60% chase of passing, but failure would not be a surprising outcome either. If you want to be more certain, especially if it is a week that doesn't show up that often, maybe offer closer to or over the $3/point price. As always, these are based on the accuracy or inaccuracy of the underlying data, so YMMV.
> 
> Your $11K price you posted above for, I assume a 2BR OV worth 4950 points, equates to $2.22/point. Not unreasonable to think it *could* have passed based on the data, but as I noted above, over $3/point has a pass rate of 93% for WEEKS.



Thank you this is very helpful. Since $9500 and $11,000did not pass, I may have to be closer to $3.00 per point. I wonder if there is any value to trying $11,000 again?


----------



## JIMinNC

vacationtime1 said:


> It might be interesting to sort your data set by date rather than price; we are all reading the Marriott has been getting more aggressive about ROFR.  It you did the same analysis using ROFR data drawn from the second half of 2018 only, would you get the same result?  Perhaps we will know in early 2019.



I don't have time to do a more detailed look, but I think the problem with just looking at the last few months is not enough data. There are only 66 ROFR.net submissions since May 1. Of those, 41 Failed ROFR and only 25 passed, a pass rate of only 38%.

The problem is, there were only 2 submissions at an over $3/point valuation (both passed), and only 12 total submissions over $2/point (including the two $3+). So, here is what that very limited data shows:

$3/point or more: 2 TOTAL -- 2 pass; 0 fail --100% pass
$2/point or more: 12 TOTAL -- 7 pass; 5 fail -- 58% pass
Between $2/pt & $3/Pt -- 10 TOTAL -- 5 pass; 5 fail ---50% pass

So that reinforces that the odds improve over $3/point. But the data set is so small, I'm not sure it is meaningful.

Below is the raw data. Sorry for the eye test.


----------



## JIMinNC

amy241 said:


> Thank you this is very helpful. Since $9500 and $11,000did not pass, I may have to be closer to $3.00 per point. I wonder if there is any value to trying $11,000 again?



That's the age-old question. Despite my attempts to put some science behind ROFR, navigating it is still more of an art than a science. I would simply say if there are a lot of KoOlina properties out there on the market, it doesn't hurt to try and try again, or move your price up gradually. If what you are looking for is hard to find and getting what you want is more important than getting the lowest possible price, I might be inclined to move closer to a $3/pt price more rapidly.


----------



## vacationtime1

JIMinNC said:


> I don't have time to do a more detailed look, but *I think the problem with just looking at the last few months is not enough data*. There are only 66 ROFR.net submissions since May 1. Of those, 41 Failed ROFR and only 25 passed, a pass rate of only 38%.
> 
> The problem is, there were only 2 submissions at an over $3/point valuation (both passed), and only 12 total submissions over $2/point (including the two $3+). So, here is what that very limited data shows:
> 
> $3/point or more: 2 TOTAL -- 2 pass; 0 fail --100% pass
> $2/point or more: 12 TOTAL -- 7 pass; 5 fail -- 58% pass
> Between $2/pt & $3/Pt -- 10 TOTAL -- 5 pass; 5 fail ---50% pass
> 
> So that reinforces that the odds improve over $3/point. But the data set is so small, I'm not sure it is meaningful.
> 
> Below is the raw data. Sorry for the eye test.
> 
> View attachment 8057



I thought there would be insufficient data, especially because you are trying to track trends that may have started only recently.  That's why I suggested that you will have a better data set next year -- as Marriott's current game plan plays out (assuming Marriott even has a game plan, but that is another question entirely).


----------



## LUVourMarriotts

For points purchases, I believe, just based on threads I have read about pass/fail, that the number of points in the transaction is also a contributing factor to the price point.  For instance, there is someone on a FB group trying to sell 6500 points.  I would guess that a lower price, say $3, would potentially pass on that transaction, because Marriott would need to shell out $19,500 to buy it, or they could pass it and make $19,500 from the transfer fee.  I know $19,500 is chump change to them, but they are probably getting several ROFR requests daily.  Using that same $3, I'd guess 1000 points is going to fail, because Marriotts expense is much lower.

Total guesstimate here.


----------



## JIMinNC

LUVourMarriotts said:


> For points purchases, I believe, just based on threads I have read about pass/fail, that the number of points in the transaction is also a contributing factor to the price point.  For instance, there is someone on a FB group trying to sell 6500 points.  I would guess that a lower price, say $3, would potentially pass on that transaction, because Marriott would need to shell out $19,500 to buy it, or they could pass it and make $19,500 from the transfer fee.  I know $19,500 is chump change to them, but they are probably getting several ROFR requests daily.  Using that same $3, I'd guess 1000 points is going to fail, because Marriotts expense is much lower.
> 
> Total guesstimate here.




That's a very intriguing theory, and one I hadn't considered. It makes sense that the ROFR decision might take into consideration the money they can make by letting it go through instead.

But as I thought about it, it made me sorta wonder why Marriott would exercise ROFR on ANY points purchase? Every points ROFR they exercise is costing them $3/point of pure profit that they don't get, PLUS the exercise price. In a sense, it is a double whammy of cost plus forgone revenue. Intriguing.


----------



## Fasttr

JIMinNC said:


> That's a very intriguing theory, and one I hadn't considered. It makes sense that the ROFR decision might take into consideration the money they can make by letting it go through instead.
> 
> But as I thought about it, it made me sorta wonder why Marriott would exercise ROFR on ANY points purchase? Every points ROFR they exercise is costing them $3/point of pure profit that they don't get, PLUS the exercise price. In a sense, it is a double whammy of cost plus forgone revenue. Intriguing.


If you assume 40% of sales price is eaten up by marketing costs, at an average sales price of $11 per point, that nets them down to approx $7 per point less a ROFR price of say $4 to acquire the points, nets them approx the same $3 per point.


----------



## Fasttr

LUVourMarriotts said:


> For points purchases, I believe, just based on threads I have read about pass/fail, that the number of points in the transaction is also a contributing factor to the price point.  For instance, there is someone on a FB group trying to sell 6500 points.  I would guess that a lower price, say $3, would potentially pass on that transaction, because Marriott would need to shell out $19,500 to buy it, or they could pass it and make $19,500 from the transfer fee.  I know $19,500 is chump change to them, but they are probably getting several ROFR requests daily.  Using that same $3, I'd guess 1000 points is going to fail, because Marriotts expense is much lower.
> 
> Total guesstimate here.


Or the flip argument would be that MVC May prefer (cost per point being equal) to do one deal at 6500 points than 6.5 deals at 1000 points just to minimize closing costs and other administrative cost to complete the purchase.


----------



## NYFLTRAVELER

Hello. I believe I’ve seen it before.... where can I find the chart for the conversion value of a fixed week to DP.  For example I know a Cypress Harbor “sport season”week converts to 1975 DP Points.....

Thank you.


----------



## Fasttr

NYFLTRAVELER said:


> Hello. I believe I’ve seen it before.... where can I find the chart for the conversion value of a fixed week to DP.  For example I know a Cypress Harbor “sport season”week converts to 1975 DP Points.....
> 
> Thank you.



https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1fbFUDNeQFORFJxzlWufN5LoXo9b9eJhegQ326PFHBP8/htmlview


----------



## catharsis

Passed at $4750 on an EOY PLat Timber Lodge 2Bed Ski week (not a surprise)
failed on a GV Plat 2B EOY under $1000
passed (!) on a GRC 1Bedroom fractional - I'm awaiting visibility of the actual ROFR waiver in my hand before posting details in case I 'jinx' it!


----------



## frank808

catharsis said:


> Passed at $4750 on an EOY PLat Timber Lodge 2Bed Ski week (not a surprise)
> failed on a GV Plat 2B EOY under $1000
> passed (!) on a GRC 1Bedroom fractional - I'm awaiting visibility of the actual ROFR waiver in my hand before posting details in case I 'jinx' it!


Please post what your grand residence passes at.  Was this a 1br that locks off or just a standard 1br unit?  Thanks

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


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## StevenTing

I'm so late to the recent conversation.

For Ko Olina, a number of years ago a 2BR OV was passing around $12k.  I like to use the 30% figure that was mentioned a long time ago by GregT.  When I bought my KO unit, it was $49644 before discounts.  30% of that puts it around $14,893.  Using the Points measurement of 4950 points x the currently $11 price ($14 with 20$ discount) that puts you at $54450.  And 30% of that comes out to $16,335.

If it were me, I'd try between the $14.9k and $16.3k figure for best shots at Ko Olina.  You might be over paying a little but it's still better than what I paid with the developer.


----------



## StevenTing

JIMinNC said:


> I think if I were looking to make an offer on a week right now, and if it was a week that I really wanted and one that didn't show up very often,* I think I would be inclined to offer at least $3.00 to $3.25 per point based on the DP point value for that week *- maybe even $3.50 if I really wanted to increase my chances of passing. I think it's futile to try to analytically find the precise break-point in the ROFR exercise/pass curve as there are so many variables we don't know (i.e. - the accuracy of the data posted on ROFR.net, and whether the price posted was indeed what was submitted by the seller to MVC). I do think we can see that as the price gets over about $3/point, the likelihood of ROFR starts to drop. It may still get ROFR'd, but the odds improve. Similarly, the break point on Destination Points ROFR seems to be in that same $3.25/point to $4.00/point range.



My Maui weeks that I bought mid-2017 came in at $3.24 per point.  $34K price and the week would be worth 10500 if I could enroll it.
I sold an Ko Olina EOY for the equivalent of $2.83 per point, if it could be enrolled (2475 Points). However, from a seller stand-point, once you factor in their closing costs, it jumps up to $3.23 per point.


----------



## Wahoo

Just to add to the seeming utter randomness that is Marriott's ROFR process... just received word today that my purchase of a Ko Olina 2br Oceanview (annual) passed at $4,700.  I am even more surprised about this one than I was about my 2br Platinum Ocean Pointe that passed last year at $3,801.

Both of these were purchased via eBay (different sellers) from companies that are neither quick nor pleasant to deal with.  That said, the price can't be beat.  Pure speculation, but I wonder whether Marriott detests dealing with these companies even more than I do, and thus waives ROFR so they don't have to deal with them. My other guess is that perhaps the selling agencies are doing something nefarious with the ROFR request, but it's impossible for me to know since they don't share the details with me despite my requests.


----------



## frank808

Wahoo said:


> Just to add to the seeming utter randomness that is Marriott's ROFR process... just received word today that my purchase of a Ko Olina 2br Oceanview passed at $4,700.



I take it was an eoy ownership or was it an annual unit?  Thanks

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


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## Wahoo

frank808 said:


> I take it was an eoy ownership or was it an annual unit?  Thanks
> 
> Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


Annual. Will edit above for clarity.  Will also post to ROFR.net.


----------



## GregT

Wahoo said:


> Just to add to the seeming utter randomness that is Marriott's ROFR process... just received word today that my purchase of a Ko Olina 2br Oceanview (annual) passed at $4,700.  I am even more surprised about this one than I was about my 2br Platinum Ocean Pointe that passed last year at $3,801.
> 
> Both of these were purchased via eBay (different sellers) from companies that are neither quick nor pleasant to deal with.  That said, the price can't be beat.  Pure speculation, but I wonder whether Marriott detests dealing with these companies even more than I do, and thus waives ROFR so they don't have to deal with them. My other guess is that perhaps the selling agencies are doing something nefarious with the ROFR request, but it's impossible for me to know since they don't share the details with me despite my requests.



Any idea if it was a bankruptcy sale?  I believe they avoid those like the plague.

Irrespective, congrats on the fantastic deal and hope all is as it appears!

Best,

Greg


----------



## Wahoo

GregT said:


> Any idea if it was a bankruptcy sale?  I believe they avoid those like the plague.
> 
> Irrespective, congrats on the fantastic deal and hope all is as it appears!
> 
> Best,
> 
> Greg


Not sure. My Ocean Pointe purchase did not seem to be judging from the deed and other paperwork I was able to see, but don't know the seller details about this Ko Olina one yet.


----------



## mjm1

That is a great price. About the same as what we paid but ours was definitely a bankruptcy situation.
Congratulations.

Best regards.

Mike


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## frank808

Now that is a steal at $4700 annual OV mko.





Wahoo said:


> Annual. Will edit above for clarity.  Will also post to ROFR.net.



Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


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## taterhed

See?   All you can do is make offers and hope.
Great buy.


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## magicjourney

Did a quick search on ebay, but didn't find the auction you referred to in the past three months.
Just be careful there is a notorious group from Tennessee under different user ids selling many premier timeshares at very low price, but people have to fight to get money back at the end. There was a long tug thread on this. 



Wahoo said:


> Just to add to the seeming utter randomness that is Marriott's ROFR process... just received word today that my purchase of a Ko Olina 2br Oceanview (annual) passed at $4,700.  I am even more surprised about this one than I was about my 2br Platinum Ocean Pointe that passed last year at $3,801.
> 
> Both of these were purchased via eBay (different sellers) from companies that are neither quick nor pleasant to deal with.  That said, the price can't be beat.  Pure speculation, but I wonder whether Marriott detests dealing with these companies even more than I do, and thus waives ROFR so they don't have to deal with them. My other guess is that perhaps the selling agencies are doing something nefarious with the ROFR request, but it's impossible for me to know since they don't share the details with me despite my requests.


----------



## amy241

Thank you, this is very helpful.




StevenTing said:


> I'm so late to the recent conversation.
> 
> For Ko Olina, a number of years ago a 2BR OV was passing around $12k.  I like to use the 30% figure that was mentioned a long time ago by GregT.  When I bought my KO unit, it was $49644 before discounts.  30% of that puts it around $14,893.  Using the Points measurement of 4950 points x the currently $11 price ($14 with 20$ discount) that puts you at $54450.  And 30% of that comes out to $16,335.
> 
> If it were me, I'd try between the $14.9k and $16.3k figure for best shots at Ko Olina.  You might be over paying a little but it's still better than what I paid with the developer.


----------



## amy241

Wow, they exercised on my offers of 9,500 and 11,000. Which EBay company did you work with and did you have to pay the full amount when the auction ended? It seems like many want the full amount paid immediately and do not use escrow. 




Wahoo said:


> Just to add to the seeming utter randomness that is Marriott's ROFR process... just received word today that my purchase of a Ko Olina 2br Oceanview (annual) passed at $4,700.  I am even more surprised about this one than I was about my 2br Platinum Ocean Pointe that passed last year at $3,801.
> 
> Both of these were purchased via eBay (different sellers) from companies that are neither quick nor pleasant to deal with.  That said, the price can't be beat.  Pure speculation, but I wonder whether Marriott detests dealing with these companies even more than I do, and thus waives ROFR so they don't have to deal with them. My other guess is that perhaps the selling agencies are doing something nefarious with the ROFR request, but it's impossible for me to know since they don't share the details with me despite my requests.


----------



## taterhed

Hmmm   Sounds like a Yoda line.....

"Pay me now....regret you later"


----------



## Wahoo

taterhed said:


> Hmmm   Sounds like a Yoda line.....
> 
> "Pay me now....regret you later"



Agreed, and I am approaching it with eyes wide open.  I paid via credit card, so if need be can file a dispute with the card company.  I was similarly skeptical with my Ocean Pointe purchase in 2017.  Thought it might be a scam.  Was unimpressed with the communication from the company.  At many points almost pulled the trigger to file a dispute with my credit card company, but remained patient.  After about 3 months of me pestering them every week or two, the deal finally closed, deed recorded, and the week showed up appropriately in my MVC account.  Traveled to Ocean Pointe using that purchase this Spring, and am headed back again for spring break 2019.  

So far the transaction on the Ko Olina week has proceeded in much the same (painfully slow) way as that prior experience.  It still remains to be seen whether the deal actually closes and the deed officially records this time.  Best case scenario, it does. Worst case scenario, I am out about $5000 (or more likely, have to file a dispute with my credit card company to be made whole).  It is a calculated risk that I'm rolling the dice on.


----------



## taterhed

@Wahoo   Good luck!  Let us know how it goes (and the seller name) once it closes.  Or not.


----------



## amy241

We have submitted a new offer of $10,500 on a Marriott Ko Olina 2/2 oceanview week. What is different this time around is that the estoppel shows Usgae 2018: No and Usgae 2019: No.  The seller had already rented out 2019 usage so the MFs for 2019 will be credited back to us at closing. Since Marriott does not have usage next year, I’m thinking they may be more likely to waive on this purchase than to exercise. I will post results when received.


----------



## TXTortoise

Just another variable, but I wonder if Marriott would go higher for weeks like MOC Lahaina and Napili 3BR OF fixed weeks and the similar 2BR OF fixed, just because of rarity, even though points are the same as floating. I’ve seen one or two sales on Redweek for fall season, but no idea if they got ROFR’d.  I might ping the broker and see whether they’ll say.


----------



## amy241

Marriott waived ROFR on our recent offer of $10,500 on an Oceanview Ko Olina week with usage beginning 2020.


----------



## JIMinNC

amy241 said:


> Marriott waived ROFR on our recent offer of $10,500 on an Oceanview Ko Olina week with usage beginning 2020.



Congrats! Glad you got one through.


----------



## californiagirl

I’m also happy for you Amy.  I have been following your attempts to buy at Ko Olina.  It’s been a crazy ROFR summer!  Hope all goes well with the purchase and recording.


----------



## Panina

amy241 said:


> Marriott waived ROFR on our recent offer of $10,500 on an Oceanview Ko Olina week with usage beginning 2020.


Great new, congratulations.  Persistence pays off.


----------



## dagger1

californiagirl said:


> So excited to report that our Waiohai, Island View, EOY passed ROFR at $3500.  We heard 6 days from submitting ROFR.  I’ve added it to the database.


We made an offer on an EOYO Waiohai the end of August, ROFR request was sent to Marriott 9/7/18.  That was 17 days ago and we haven’t heard a word.  Marriott has 15 days to exercise ROFR on Waiohai, we are beginning to wonder what’s going on.  Looks like this offer will fall through...


----------



## TXTortoise

All mine have gotten a response within two calendar weeks, including one earlier this month. That said, all the ROFR activity may be delaying things.  I wonder if anyone has had ROFR waived because they missed their window.


----------



## dagger1

TXTortoise said:


> All mine have gotten a response within two calendar weeks, including one earlier this month. That said, all the ROFR activity may be delaying things.  I wonder if anyone has had ROFR waived because they missed their window.


Is the 15 day ROFR window composed of 15 total days or 15 business days, does anyone know?


----------



## TXTortoise

15 business days per the folks at AdvantageVacations.com (Syed)


----------



## dioxide45

TXTortoise said:


> 15 business days per the folks at AdvantageVacations.com (Syed)


Per his website, it doesn't specify business or calendar days. I don't know what the official documents indicate, but I don't think they specify. In that absence, it would lend toward calendar days.

https://advantagevacation.com/marriotts-right-of-first-refusal-terms-and-policy/


----------



## amy241

dioxide45 said:


> Per his website, it doesn't specify business or calendar days. I don't know what the official documents indicate, but I don't think they specify. In that absence, it would lend toward calendar days.
> 
> https://advantagevacation.com/marriotts-right-of-first-refusal-terms-and-policy/



It is located in the resort’s disclosure statement.


----------



## TXTortoise

dioxide45 said:


> Per his website, it doesn't specify business or calendar days. I don't know what the official documents indicate, but I don't think they specify. In that absence, it would lend toward calendar days.
> 
> https://advantagevacation.com/marriotts-right-of-first-refusal-terms-and-policy/


Direct email from his staff at closing, FWIW.


----------



## dioxide45

amy241 said:


> It is located in the resort’s disclosure statement.


I knew that, just didn't take the time to dig through it. Here is what our Grande Vista docs show. Nowhere does it indicate either business or calendar days.


----------



## Steve Fatula

From reading the Grande Vista document shown, I think it's obvious it means calendar days, i.e. 1 month. By not specifying, I would expect any challenge to the amount of time to go in favor of calendar.


----------



## TXTortoise

The Ko' Olina docs state the same thing, for 15 days, which would imply calendar days.  I did find it interesting that in the next paragraph addressing rescission they specifically say 'calendar days'.

https://www.sellingtimeshares.net/wp-content/uploads/Olina-Disclosure-Statement-.pdf

"RIGHTO F FIRST REFUSALTPOURCHASE. In the event an Owner desires to sell, convey or lease (or enter into other agreements relating to the use of a Unit if not designated as a "lease") for a term of three (3) years or more in the aggregate (and whether or not consecutive), or othewise transfer ownership of such Owner's Ownership Interest in the Program and for so long as Developer has Ownership Interests to sell in the Program or the Developer or an affiliate of Developer manages the Program, whichever shall he later, Developer shall have the right-of-first-refusal to purchase or lease, as applicable, the Ownership Interest under the same terms and conditions (including financing terms) as may be offered to or by a bona fide third party. Accordingly, each Owner desiring to sell or lease his Ownership Interest must notify Developer in writing of his intent to list, sell or lease his Ownership Interest. The Owner's written notice to the Developer must include the proposed listing, offer price or rental rate and general terms of the proposed listing, sale or lease. *Upon receipt of such written notice, the Developer shall have fifteen (15) days within which to notify the Owner in writing as to whether the Developer elects to exercise its right of first refusal set forth herein.* If Developer electz_to exercise its right of first refusal, closing shall occur no later than sixty (60) days after Developer notifies the Owner in writing (within such fifteen (15) day period) of its decision to purchase the Ownership Interest. If Developer elects not to exercise its right of first refusal or fails to notify the Owner in writing of Developer's election to exercise its right of first refusal within such fifteen (15) day period, the Owner shall be entitled, for a period of seven (7) months thereafter, to list Owner's Ownership Interest with a third party resale agent or sell the Ownership Interest to a third party for a price equal to or greater than the price offered to Developer without further notice to Developer. In the event, however, that such third-party buyer is an entity other than natural persons or such persons' personal trust (such as a corporation, partnership, limited liability company or partnership or other business entity), the Owner shall then reoffer the Ownership Interest to Developer under the procedure set forth above to provide Developer with the option to exercise its right-of-first- refusal once again.

8. MUTUALRESCISSIOPNROVISION. BoththeDeveloperandanyBuyermaycancelanycontracttobuyan Ownership Interest without penalty by giving the other party written notice *within seven (7) calendar days after:* (a) signing the contract; or (b) the Buyer receives this Disclosure Statement, whichever is later. The seven (7) day period is called the "mutual rescission period." Each Buyer will be given a form of Notice of Cancellation (Form TS-10 of the Department of Commerce and Consumer Affairs of the State of Hawaii ("DCCA)), together with all pertinent information completed at the time that Buyer signs the Purchase Contract. If a Buyer exercises this right to cancel, then, within fiffeen (15) days, the Developer must return all payments made and the Buyer must return all sales materials received in good condition, except for reasonable wear and tear, or the Developer may deduct their reasonable value (but not more than $25.00)."


----------



## csodjd

ROFR exercised by Marriott. Maui Ocean Club, Napilli. 2-Bedroom Oceanfront, annual. $29,000.


----------



## TXTortoise

csodjd said:


> ROFR exercised by Marriott. Maui Ocean Club, Napilli. 2-Bedroom Oceanfront, annual. $29,000.



Wow.... Guess my two 2BR OF fixed weeks that were ROFR'd at $20K wouldn't have cleared at $25K either.

That is the highest value week I know of to fail ROFR. 

That's $3.88/pt and I guess answers my previous hypothetical as to whether Marriott would go higher on a $/pt ratio for relatively rare high-value weeks.


----------



## csodjd

TXTortoise said:


> Wow.... Guess my two 2BR OF fixed weeks that were ROFR'd at $20K wouldn't have cleared at $25K either.
> 
> That is the highest value week I know of to fail ROFR.
> 
> That's $3.88/pt and I guess answers my previous hypothetical as to whether Marriott would go higher on a $/pt ratio for relatively rare high-value weeks.


I have to admit, I was surprised.


----------



## JIMinNC

TXTortoise said:


> Wow.... Guess my two 2BR OF fixed weeks that were ROFR'd at $20K wouldn't have cleared at $25K either.
> 
> That is the highest value week I know of to fail ROFR.
> 
> That's $3.88/pt and I guess answers my previous hypothetical as to whether Marriott would go higher on a $/pt ratio for relatively rare high-value weeks.



Guess that means the cost of entry for a floating OF annual at Lahaina/Napili is now likely over $30K - unless this was one of those outliers we get sometimes. That's steep.


----------



## GregT

That's interesting to see MM1 weeks being bought back at $29K -- awhile ago I bought a 2BR Week 23 fixed week for $19K and a float week later for $27K -- and then the recent 3BR for $35K.  None of those would pass today.

I do suspect prices will come down when they are less active in ROFR in the future, but it may take awhile because $150M is alot of money for Marriott to deploy.

Best,

Greg


----------



## csodjd

I wonder if it's just to buy inventory to have more for their DC points, and to provide more tools for their agents to sell DC points by citing ROFR results when someone (like me) says it's just too much less costly to buy on the secondary market. Basically, it is Marriott buying out the secondary market's existence.


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## LUVourMarriotts

Marriott did not exercise ROFR for my purchase of OceanWatch Platinum Oceanside.  $11,500, but the way the contract read, the purchase price was $12,000.  Equivalent to $2.75/pt at $11,500.


----------



## echino

I am waiting for ROFR on St. Kitts at a very low price. Does it have a higher chance to clear due to it being St. Kitts and therefore not eligible for trust points?


----------



## Steve Fatula

LUVourMarriotts said:


> Marriott did not exercise ROFR for my purchase of OceanWatch Platinum Oceanside.  $11,500, but the way the contract read, the purchase price was $12,000.  Equivalent to $2.75/pt at $11,500.



Except, you can't exchange it for points. But good deal!


----------



## TXTortoise

Tedious, but might be nice to have the $/Point ratio on ROFR.net for easy reference.  At the least, reporting in this thread does help us track the trend from Marriott...irrespective that resales can't be exchanged for points.

It will be interesting to see if the Caribbean and non-US resorts continue to pass at low value, since they can't be put in the trust.


----------



## Steve Fatula

TXTortoise said:


> Tedious, but might be nice to have the $/Point ratio on ROFR.net for easy reference.  At the least, reporting in this thread does help us track the trend from Marriott...irrespective that resales can't be exchanged for points.



I also wish it was a column in Steven Tings excellent maintenance fee document, i.e., MF/point.


----------



## JIMinNC

Steve Fatula said:


> I also wish it was a column in Steven Tings excellent maintenance fee document, i.e., MF/point.



It is. On the second tab in the Google spreadsheet


----------



## Steve Fatula

JIMinNC said:


> It is. On the second tab in the Google spreadsheet



Yeah, just saw that. Doh! So, the cheapest MF/PT is Timber Lodge Platinum Plus at  21 cents per point, at least where data exists for 2018. For 2017, it appears Mountainside Platinum 52 is cheaper at 16 cents per point. I guess it's the champion. For enroll-able resale weeks (from Marriott), looks like Playa Andaluza Platinum Sea Front 3BR is the ultimate at 20 cents per point.


----------



## dioxide45

TXTortoise said:


> Tedious, but might be nice to have the $/Point ratio on ROFR.net for easy reference.


If it is purchase $/point, it isn't necessarily tedious since many of the point amounts are already in the Db. Just adding a column to to the website should be doable. However, if you are looking for the MF$/point, then that is another story since there is no MF data in the database.


----------



## Steve Fatula

dioxide45 said:


> If it is purchase $/point, it isn't necessarily tedious since many of the point amounts are already in the Db. Just adding a column to to the website should be doable. However, if you are looking for the MF$/point, then that is another story since there is no MF data in the database.



Unless you imported it from Stevens spreadsheet.


----------



## dioxide45

Steve Fatula said:


> Unless you imported it from Stevens spreadsheet.


Possible, but there isn't a one-to-one matchup with Steve's database. That is where the more tedious comes in.


----------



## TXTortoise

For purposes of ROFR, I think we are currently focused on the ratio of $/DP allocated.  I'd do that first, and you get bonus points if you integrate Steve's data at a later time. ;-)


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## JIMinNC

When I did my ROFR price/point analysis earlier in this thread, I manually filled in a few missing point values from dioxide45’s ROFR.net data. I don’t think I ever sent that back to dioxide45. In only did the last year or so, but I can send that to him tomorrow.


----------



## LUVourMarriotts

Steve Fatula said:


> Except, you can't exchange it for points. But good deal!



Yup, definitely aware of that.  But, we plan to use it each summer, as of right now.  We moved to NC in 2016 and have been to MOW 4 times in just over 2 years.  In a few cases, we made last minute decisions to go, spending thousands to stay as a Marriott guest.  So, we are making it somewhat cheaper on ourselves no matter what.  We tried several other ways to get the ability to be able to reserve MOW summer weeks yearly, and this was our cheapest.  We went to a sales pitch and they pushed us to spend $40K then $28K.  We worked with Resales Operations about MOW resale, Aruba/St. Kitts resale (points and week) and hybrid.  The cheapest there was ~$16,000 for what we got at MOW, but when I said yes, they said it was no longer available.  Aruba/St. Kitts cheapest was $25K and hybrid was $30K+.  We already have our other 2 weeks enrolled, but those 2 get us to 4650 points, and we really needed to be at 7000 to get MOW summer weeks with the 13+ window.

Worst case scenario, we add a second II account and trade, with an expectation of good trade value.


----------



## csalter2

echino said:


> I am waiting for ROFR on St. Kitts at a very low price. Does it have a higher chance to clear due to it being St. Kitts and therefore not eligible for trust points?



Neither is Aruba eligible for trust points but they do exercise ROFR. St. Kitts a iffernt bast and you may be able to get it passed ROFR.


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## MOXJO7282

csodjd said:


> ROFR exercised by Marriott. Maui Ocean Club, Napilli. 2-Bedroom Oceanfront, annual. $29,000.


Wow. Was this a fixed week?  I could see if it was a fixed week 7 but otherwise that is extreme ROFR.


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## TravelTime

I am confused when folks say Aruba, St Kitts and Europe are not available for trust points. Marriott is selling all of this direct as enrolled weeks. What is the difference if you buy one of these weeks direct from Marriott as an enrolled week vs buying a US week direct from Marriott?


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## csalter2

TravelTime said:


> I am confused when folks say Aruba, St Kitts and Europe are not available for trust points. Marriott is selling all of this direct as enrolled weeks.



Yes, Marriott sells these as enrolled weeks. Apparently, due there are some restrictions due to the countries they are located in that they cannot be added to the trust. As a result, Marriott sells these properties as enrolled weeks in the Destination Club. If you have trust points, you are able to book at these properties, but Marriottt cannot place these units in the trust like the US properties.


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## TXTortoise

MOXJO7282 said:


> Wow. Was this a fixed week?  I could see if it was a fixed week 7 but otherwise that is extreme ROFR.



I was just revisiting ROFR.net and it's crazy how the MOC new towers values vary over the last five months... the last two are really confusing. Does make one wonder if day of month and/or who has X amount to spend in their ROFR allocation is as big variable as $/Point valuation.

Maui Ocean Club - Lahaina and Napili Villas 9/27/2018 Platinum Annual 2BR Ocean Front $29,000.00 Failed Craig
Maui Ocean Club - Lahaina and Napili Villas 8/22/2018 Fixed 03 Annual 2BR Ocean Front $20,000.00 Failed TxTortoise
Maui Ocean Club - Lahaina and Napili Villas 8/22/2018 Fixed 04 Annual 2BR Ocean Front $20,000.00 Failed TxTortoise
Maui Ocean Club - Lahaina and Napili Villas 5/1/2018 Platinum Annual 2BR Ocean Front $21,500.00 Passed CC
Maui Ocean Club - Lahaina and Napili Villas 5/1/2018 Platinum Annual 2BR Ocean Front $21,500.00 Failed CC


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## johnf0614

Finally Passed!!!  2BR Platinum EOY Even Harbour Lake!  


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## Theiggy

johnf0614 said:


> Finally Passed!!!  2BR Platinum EOY Even Harbour Lake!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



How much? 


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## Theiggy

Theiggy said:


> How much?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



And congrats to you! 


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## johnf0614

Theiggy said:


> How much?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



$1050. Took me about 7 tries between this, GC, and GV before finally passing


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## Theiggy

johnf0614 said:


> $1050. Took me about 7 tries between this, GC, and GV before finally passing
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



Great- I hope they ran out of ROFR money! 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## ArubaOwnsRoytman

TravelTime said:


> I am confused when folks say Aruba, St Kitts and Europe are not available for trust points. Marriott is selling all of this direct as enrolled weeks. What is the difference if you buy one of these weeks direct from Marriott as an enrolled week vs buying a US week direct from Marriott?



most of those locations are right to use (30 year extendable leases) not actual deeded property and are not allowed to be added into the vacation trust(dc inventory) and sold as points directly which is why Marriott will not usually exercise on them.


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## bazzap

ArubaOwnsRoytman said:


> most of those locations are right to use (30 year extendable leases) not actual deeded property and are not allowed to be added into the vacation trust(dc inventory) and sold as points directly which is why Marriott will not usually exercise on them.


We own at St Kitts Beach Club and in Europe at Club Son Antem and Playa Andaluza, as well as other resorts.
St Kitts is deeded
Club Son Antem is RTU until 2078
Playa Andaluza is RTU until 2052
We have enrolled all of these resorts in the DC Points programme.


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## ArubaOwnsRoytman

your misunderstanding you having enrolled weeks you can trade into trust points and mvc buying back international properties (as they have done with domestic us deeded weeks) to sell as vacation club beneficial interests to new vcp purchasers.


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## bazzap

ArubaOwnsRoytman said:


> your misunderstanding you having enrolled weeks you can trade into trust points and mvc buying back international properties (as they have done with domestic us deeded weeks) to sell as vacation club beneficial interests to new vcp purchasers.


I am not sure if you were responding to my post or someone else’s earlier one?
MVC definitely can’t put these International weeks into the Trust if they buy them back from owners.
I was just seeking to help respond to questions raised by advising the type of ownership and RTU duration for these and to confirm that they can be enrolled.


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## jeepie

ArubaOwnsRoytman said:


> your misunderstanding you having enrolled weeks you can trade into trust points and mvc buying back international properties (as they have done with domestic us deeded weeks) to sell as vacation club beneficial interests to new vcp purchasers.


Not sure I’m understanding here. Also, I believe enrolled weeks allow one to “elect” points, which are technically not “trust” points (although practically speaking, they are virtually identical when using them). Cheers.


----------



## bazzap

jeepie said:


> Not sure I’m understanding here. Also, I believe enrolled weeks allow one to “elect” points, which are technically not “trust” points (although practically speaking, they are virtually identical when using them). Cheers.


Correct.


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## ArubaOwnsRoytman

jeepie said:


> Not sure I’m understanding here. Also, I believe enrolled weeks allow one to “elect” points, which are technically not “trust” points (although practically speaking, they are virtually identical when using them). Cheers.




I think to avoid confusion you may want to not think of this from a "my" personal usage standpoint. Try to think of it from the standpoint of a potential buyer of an RTU international week and that potential buyer asking themselves why MVC doesn't exercise ROFR on RTU properties much.  That should maybe help you understand what the original post was about.


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## ArubaOwnsRoytman

dioxide45 said:


> Or they can't sell Aruba as DC Trust Points. I think this may be why we see Aruba at a lower ROFR threshold.



This is the right idea here.


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## MOXJO7282

I have a nice MOW OF platinum in ROFR at $10k. Has an awesome 2019 week attached.  I'm skeptical it will pass and was tempted to pay more to try to make it pass but decided to try it at $10k.


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## GregT

MOXJO7282 said:


> I have a nice MOW OF platinum in ROFR at $10k. Has an awesome 2019 week attached.  I'm skeptical it will pass and was tempted to pay more to try to make it pass but decided to try it at $10k.


Good luck and let us know how it goes!!!!

Best,

Greg


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## MOXJO7282

Amazingly we heard back in less than a week and IT PASSED!!. Very surprised and super pleased because as mentioned it comes with a July 14th 2019 usage week that adds to the value.


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## TXTortoise

On a roll...and a good datapoint as there's not much on ROFR.net for 2018.


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## mjm1

MOXJO7282 said:


> Amazingly we heard back in less than a week and IT PASSED!!. Very surprised and super pleased because as mentioned it comes with a July 14th 2019 usage week that adds to the value.



Congratulations! Great deal especially with the July 2019 week you get. Enjoy.

Best regards.

Mike


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## LUVourMarriotts

MOXJO7282 said:


> Amazingly we heard back in less than a week and IT PASSED!!. Very surprised and super pleased because as mentioned it comes with a July 14th 2019 usage week that adds to the value.



Congratulations!  This makes me a little annoyed because I was told $11K was the lowest that Platinum OS had been passing, so I went a bit over that.  Oh well, its only money.


----------



## dansimms

What is the going rate for ROFR for Asia Pacific Points.  They carry an approximately lower maintenance fee to the tune of 30% less. I assume they can only be used in certain MVCI locations.  I hear they are normally sold for about 30% more than DPs.


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## DEScottzz

ROFR failed on 1500 trust points at $3.15 = $4725. That particular batch of points was of interest to me because the first use year was 2020, and I don't really need the 2019 points. 

Back to the drawing boards.

(Added to ROFR.NET)


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## JIMinNC

DEScottzz said:


> ROFR failed on 1500 trust points at $3.15 = $4725. That particular batch of points was of interest to me because the first use year was 2020, and I don't really need the 2019 points.
> 
> Back to the drawing boards.
> 
> (Added to ROFR.NET)



In your deal that failed, which party - buyer or seller - was responsible for closing costs and the $3/point activation fee?


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## DEScottzz

JIMinNC said:


> In your deal that failed, which party - buyer or seller - was responsible for closing costs and the $3/point activation fee?



The buyer was responsible. 

I'm curious whether there's a way to structure an offer that makes it a bit less attractive to Marriott.


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## TravelTime

DEScottzz said:


> The buyer was responsible.
> 
> I'm curious whether there's a way to structure an offer that makes it a bit less attractive to Marriott.



Some people have bundled the price per point, the junk fees and closing costs all together so if Marriott exercises, it would be more expensive to Marriott. It does not always work but worth a try.


----------



## JIMinNC

DEScottzz said:


> The buyer was responsible.
> 
> I'm curious whether there's a way to structure an offer that makes it a bit less attractive to Marriott.



Yes, as TravelTime noted, some have reported success with an approach with very specific language in the contract and the contract is structured where the agreed-upon price is high enough to cover not only the purchase price the seller is looking for, but also the closing costs and the $3/point activation fee to Marriott. The Seller then agrees to pay all of those fees, but since the price is high enough to cover it, they are still whole and the way the wording is set up makes it less attractive to Marriott to exercise. Some have reported getting past ROFR at under $4/point with that approach. Never done it myself, but have thought if I ever buy resale points I would try to work through a broker that has had success with that approach.


----------



## DEScottzz

JIMinNC said:


> Some have reported getting past ROFR at under $4/point with that approach. Never done it myself, but have thought if I ever buy resale points I would try to work through a broker that has had success with that approach.



Does anyone know which brokers may have had success with that approach?


----------



## TravelTime

DEScottzz said:


> Does anyone know which brokers may have had success with that approach?



You can just ask your broker to include all the costs in the purchase price. I just asked a broker to do this with a weeks offer. I am not convinced it matters though but can’t hurt. BTW, I do not think anyone has reported getting past ROFR on trust points at under $4 a point recently including activation fees. I think the best price passing ROFR I have heard of was in 2017 and it might have been $4.50 including the activation fee but that was before Marriott increased the activation fee to $3 per point.


----------



## Steve Fatula

TravelTime said:


> You can just ask your broker to include all the costs in the purchase price. I just asked a broker to do this with a weeks offer. I am not convinced it matters though but can’t hurt.



It does matter. If you do real estate, you'll understand the why. There are tricks to it, they have to know how to structure the deal.

I do know a broker with good success, PM me if still interested DEScottzz


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## TravelTime

Timeshares are not real estate. I say I am not sure it matters because sometimes the developers exercise and sometimes they do not. No one here can prove it matters. This is not the art of the deal.


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## dioxide45

TravelTime said:


> Timeshares are not real estate.


They most certainly are.


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## TravelTime

dioxide45 said:


> They most certainly are.



I know...we think they are. We call them “our portfolio.” We are like mini-tycoons!


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## dioxide45

TravelTime said:


> I know...we think they are. We call them “our portfolio.” We are like mini-tycoons!


They have a deed, they go through probate just as if it were a full deeded property. No different really, just how you use it is different.


----------



## TravelTime

dioxide45 said:


> They have a deed, they go through probate just as if it were a full deeded property. No different really, just how you use it is different.



Then we are all real estate tycoons! Little did I know I had amassed an international real estate empire so cheaply. I just wish they would appreciate like my other real estate and that there was a more liquid resale market. Or maybe I should wish my house came with destination points or staroptions instead? How much extra to enroll my house?


----------



## Steve Fatula

TravelTime said:


> Timeshares are not real estate. I say I am not sure it matters because sometimes the developers exercise and sometimes they do not. No one here can prove it matters. This is not the art of the deal.



But it is. No one can prove it, sure, But once you understand the backstory, you know it does make a difference. There is no question about it.


----------



## TravelTime

Steve Fatula said:


> But it is. No one can prove it, sure, But once you understand the backstory, you know it does make a difference. There is no question about it.



I am making an offer on a timeshare (i.e real estate) now. I asked the agent to bundle the 2019 maintenance fees into the purchase price to make it more expensive if the developer decides to exercise ROFR. So I am using this strategy, which I learned from you, my mentor! I only say it does not always work because many Tuggers have said they have used this strategy and Marriott has still exercised. So while it makes sense intellectually, it does not always pass ROFR. If it consistently passed, I would agree with you. I encourage everyone to use this strategy because we need all the help we can get to pass ROFR.


----------



## dioxide45

TravelTime said:


> Then we are all real estate tycoons! Little did I know I had amassed an international real estate empire so cheaply. I just wish they would appreciate like my other real estate and that there was a more liquid resale market. Or maybe I should wish my house came with destination points or staroptions instead? How much extra to enroll my house?


You may mock it, but it doesn't change the reality in the eyes of the law. If Marriott so desired, they could take title to the deed on your house, convey it to the MVC DC Land Trust and divy it up in points and sell them.


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## TravelTime

You take it as mocking. I was just kidding and playing around. There is a difference.

I give up here. My humor is too bizarre. I was going to make another sarcastic joke but my DH and I decided no one would understand.


----------



## Steve Fatula

TravelTime said:


> You take it as mocking. I was just kidding and playing around. There is a difference.
> 
> I give up here. My humor is too bizarre. I was going to make another sarcastic joke but my DH and I decided no one would understand.



I'll vouch for that.  Traveltime can have interesting posts, but is actually a good person and smart. I am still learning what is mocking and what isn't. That is interesting to me as it sounds a lot like me in my life. People seem to mis-interpret me a lot and maybe I can learn something from this! Heck, I can even offer to help someone with something and they think there is some devious ulterior motive. It confuses me! I once offered to help mow a property and they took it as an insult.


----------



## Steve Fatula

TravelTime said:


> I am making an offer on a timeshare (i.e real estate) now. I asked the agent to bundle the 2019 maintenance fees into the purchase price to make it more expensive if the developer decides to exercise ROFR. So I am using this strategy, which I learned from you, my mentor! I only say it does not always work because many Tuggers have said they have used this strategy and Marriott has still exercised. So while it makes sense intellectually, it does not always pass ROFR. If it consistently passed, I would agree with you. I encourage everyone to use this strategy because we need all the help we can get to pass ROFR.



Well, there are different ways of doing that and some are incorrectly structured. However, of course it will never always work. But that's because ROFR seems to have no formula. They can exercise on person A at $10,000 but not person B the very next day at $5000.


----------



## frank808

TravelTime said:


> I just wish they would appreciate like my other real estate and that there was a more liquid resale market.



Own DVC points.  And those are only a RTU.  They have appreciated nicely in 8 years, can rent them put quickly and sell pretty easily.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


----------



## taterhed

frank808 said:


> Own DVC points.  And those are only a RTU.  They have appreciated nicely in 8 years, can rent them put quickly and sell pretty easily.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk




Funny, I was just about to start ranting about the automatic 50% loss on points resale....and then I re-read your post:   You mean Disney points? or MVC destination club points?

If Marriott, the automatic loss of 50% value on resale ($3 per point) makes that a very expensive 'easy sell.'
Liquid, yes.   High MF's as well.....it's all relative of course.


----------



## TravelTime

frank808 said:


> Own DVC points.  And those are only a RTU.  They have appreciated nicely in 8 years, can rent them put quickly and sell pretty easily.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk



I own DVC points. Those are the only ones that appreciate but are the least like real estate since they are RTU and expire in less than 50 years. Imagine if your house expired in 2060 or even sooner!


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## TravelTime

taterhed said:


> Funny, I was just about to start ranting about the automatic 50% loss on points resale....and then I re-read your post:   You mean Disney points? or MVC destination club points?
> 
> If Marriott, the automatic loss of 50% value on resale ($3 per point) makes that a very expensive 'easy sell.'
> Liquid, yes.   High MF's as well.....it's all relative of course.



I suspect that MVC points and most timeshares are not very liquid since you need to give them away or sell them cheaply and even then you might not get takers due to people not wanting the maintenance fees. Also broker fees are very high to sell timeshares compared to traditional real estate. Many timeshares rent at the cost of maintenance fees, unfortunately. Marriott DPs rent for only a few pennies above MFs. There are very few timeshares that are good renters from an owner perspective.


----------



## capjak

TravelTime said:


> I suspect that MVC points and most timeshares are not very liquid since you need to give them away or sell them cheaply and even then you might not get takers due to people not wanting the maintenance fees. Also broker fees are very high to sell timeshares compared to traditional real estate. Many timeshares rent at the cost of maintenance fees, unfortunately. Marriott DPs rent for only a few pennies above MFs. There are very few timeshares that are good renters from an owner perspective.



Disney Vacation Club is the exception for sure, it is worth more now than when I bought it resale and I can rent out the points for 2x MFs in about a week (very liquid).   WKORV-North rents well also but not as well as DVC.


----------



## TravelTime

capjak said:


> Disney Vacation Club is the exception for sure, it is worth more now than when I bought it resale and I can rent out the points for 2x MFs in about a week (very liquid).   WKORV-North rents well also but not as well as DVC.



I own both in my real estate empire.


----------



## hajjah

I just got an email back from the closing company regarding the purchase of:
MARRIOTT SHADOW RIDGE ENCLAVES CALIFORNIA TIMESHARE 2 BEDROOM LOCKOFF GOLD.  Marriott is not enforcing their ROFR.  This is an EOY that I found on Ebay for $1.  I won't post this on the ROFR website until the Deed has been sent out for updating/recording.  I never thought this would go through.


----------



## FamilyEsq

How long did it take for Marriott to notify you that they were not exercising ROFR?


----------



## hajjah

The request for ROFR was sent to Marriott on 11/23 and the waiver was received on 11/29.  I don't see much activity for this resort on the ROFR website.


----------



## GregT

hajjah said:


> I just got an email back from the closing company regarding the purchase of:
> MARRIOTT SHADOW RIDGE ENCLAVES CALIFORNIA TIMESHARE 2 BEDROOM LOCKOFF GOLD.  Marriott is not enforcing their ROFR.  This is an EOY that I found on Ebay for $1.  I won't post this on the ROFR website until the Deed has been sent out for updating/recording.  I never thought this would go through.


Wow, that’s a great purchase.   I’m surprised that went through as well. 

Was the Seller in bankruptcy?  

I know there are plans to build out Shadow Ridge (someday) and maybe they don’t want that much Shadow Ridge in the Trust but I still don’t get it. 

Congrats on your purchase!

Best,

Greg


----------



## taterhed

hajjah said:


> The request for ROFR was sent to Marriott on 11/23 and the waiver was received on 11/29.  I don't see much activity for this resort on the ROFR website.



Cost of a Marriott timeshare:  $1
Using it to trade into a prime Maui Ocean View/Front?    Priceless.   (actually about $149).

Good catch!


----------



## vol_90

dansimms said:


> What is the going rate for ROFR for Asia Pacific Points.  They carry an approximately lower maintenance fee to the tune of 30% less. I assume they can only be used in certain MVCI locations.  I hear they are normally sold for about 30% more than DPs.



Not sure of ROFR on AP Points.  I can confirm they can be used on all MVCI properties subject to availability.  Maintenance fees per point from 2014 - 2018 are as follows:

2014 - .3279
2015 - .3375
2016 - .3515
2017 - .36889
2018 - .38365


----------



## bazzap

Yes, there are currently 8 Asia Pacific Club resorts with more planned, but all MVC resorts are now available to AP points owners.
Further details are available here (full details require AP Club sign in)
https://www.marriottasiaholidays.com/


----------



## dioxide45

bazzap said:


> Yes, there are currently 8 Asia Pacific Club resorts with more planned


Will they really add more properties to AP where owners can use their AP points to book in to directly? Or would they not just put them all in to DC and have all owners book through DC?


----------



## bazzap

dioxide45 said:


> Will they really add more properties to AP where owners can use their AP points to book in to directly? Or would they not just put them all in to DC and have all owners book through DC?


Yes although the DC and AP points have been aligned 1:1 for a while now and cross booking opened up to all MVC resorts, there are many complexities about the Asia set up and the AP programme that would probably make it far too difficult to open new resorts and put them in to DC.
There are even different nuances here, with for example the introduction of Surfers Paradise and Australia Points!


----------



## hajjah

GregT said:


> Wow, that’s a great purchase.   I’m surprised that went through as well.
> 
> Was the Seller in bankruptcy?
> 
> I know there are plans to build out Shadow Ridge (someday) and maybe they don’t want that much Shadow Ridge in the Trust but I still don’t get it.
> 
> Congrats on your purchase!
> 
> Best,
> 
> Greg


The total I paid was $1.  The closing and transfer costs were paid by the seller.  They must have really wanted out of this timeshare.  I'm planning to use this timeshare to exchange into others.  I'm not interested in going there since we are in the south east.  We did go to the Desert Springs Villas I last year and loved it.


----------



## hajjah

Update:  The documents have been sent to be recorded today.


----------



## FamilyEsq

Marriott Grand Chateau - 2 bedroom - Platinum: Passed ROFR at $1,500.  Could not complete purchase because Seller deposited 2019 into II.  Seller wasn't willing to pay 2019 MFs and start usage in 2020 so I walked away.

Entered into another contract for $1,300.  I confirmed 2019 is available.  I hope this one works out.

I really wanted to find a Platinum Plus week for sale.


----------



## TXTortoise

Maui Lahaina 3BR Week 46, before Thanksgiving.

I had inquired and broker said it just got taken by Marriott.  They haven’t disclosed unit number or price, but were recommending an offer of $40k for 3BR. Guessing it went for $35k.

Wonder if new 2019 ROFR money influenced that.


----------



## StevenTing

TXTortoise said:


> Maui Lahaina 3BR Week 46, before Thanksgiving.
> 
> I had inquired and broker said it just got taken by Marriott.  They haven’t disclosed unit number or price, but we’re recommending an offer of $40k for 3BR. Guessing it went for $35k.
> 
> Wonder if new 2019 ROFR money influenced that.




Wow. Based on this news, I was very lucky in my purchase.  Mine were about $34k a piece when I bought mine 1.5 years ago.


----------



## TXTortoise

So, if the 3BR sold for $35K, at 10,500 DPs, that's $3.30/point, which I think is just under the thresholds discussed earlier in this thread. Looks like $40K might be the minimum for a 3BR now, though maybe influenced by 2019 ROFR budget...which is an unknown at this point.


----------



## GregT

TXTortoise said:


> Maui Lahaina 3BR Week 46, before Thanksgiving.
> 
> I had inquired and broker said it just got taken by Marriott.  They haven’t disclosed unit number or price, but were recommending an offer of $40k for 3BR. Guessing it went for $35k.
> 
> Wonder if new 2019 ROFR money influenced that.




I agree with Steven -- that's surprising that this was ROFR'd.   I guess Steven and I were really lucky to slip ours past the goalie if the door is closing.   My last one was $35K and I think his was about the same, for better weeks than Week 46. 

We may see a newly evolving Marriott world where the very best weeks are ROFR'd and Trusted with less sensitivity to the sale price.    Interesting and thanks for posting this.

Best,

Greg


----------



## JIMinNC

TXTortoise said:


> So, if the 3BR sold for $35K, at 10,500 DPs, that's .33 ratio, which I think is just under the thresholds discussed earlier in this thread. Looks like $40K might be the minimum for a 3BR now, though maybe influenced by 2019 ROFR budget...which is an unknown at this point.



Don't you mean $3.33/point instead of .33?


----------



## TXTortoise

JIMinNC said:


> Don't you mean $3.33/point instead of .33?


Yup... corrected.


----------



## hajjah

hajjah said:


> Update:  The documents have been sent to be recorded today.



Final Update:  I received the email notice from Marriott today.  The transfer of ownership at MARRIOTT SHADOW RIDGE ENCLAVES has been completed.  This is not bad for an Ebay purchase of $1.  I had given up for a while on getting anything on Ebay, but this purchase proves that all things are possible. The owner paid all fees.


----------



## csodjd

FYI, Marriott just exercised their ROFR on my $29,100 offer (seller to pay closing costs) for a 2-bedroom Oceanfront Marriott Maui Ocean Club, Lahaina Tower, annual floating week.


----------



## amy241

csodjd said:


> FYI, Marriott just exercised their ROFR on my $29,100 offer (seller to pay closing costs) for a 2-bedroom Oceanfront Marriott Maui Ocean Club, Lahaina Tower, annual floating week.


Bummer!


----------



## JIMinNC

csodjd said:


> FYI, Marriott just exercised their ROFR on my $29,100 offer (seller to pay closing costs) for a 2-bedroom Oceanfront Marriott Maui Ocean Club, Lahaina Tower, annual floating week.



Wow. Means it would take $30K+ to secure a 2BR OF. With a point value of 7475, when those are added to the Trust, they will have cost MVC $3.89/point.


----------



## TXTortoise

Wow! I’d started to assume it was going to take $35k, or $40k to safely clear in the future. I wonder if early in the year budget influences these or is it really a $/point threshold of $4.

Eagerly awaiting to see the next MOC 2BR OF old building sale threshold. A number of those on the market at $20k or so.

And for clarity, you got it for $28k and added closing to contract making it $29,100, which is what Marriott paid.

(Just a datapoint addendum...spoke to broker that had a listing of three MOC 2BR OF floating weeks at $60K.  Seller accepted $54K and Marriott took them, not unexpectedly at $18K each. $18K was super low price even two years ago.)


----------



## JIMinNC

The more of these ROFR exercises I see, I'm feeling better and better about our little EOY-Odd 2BR OV MOC original building we got past ROFR at $8,000 almost exactly one year ago. I can't even remember seeing another EOY-Odd 2BR OV even listed since then.

Looking forward to our trip in less than two months! First time back to Hawaii since 2011!


----------



## MOXJO7282

csodjd said:


> FYI, Marriott just exercised their ROFR on my $29,100 offer (seller to pay closing costs) for a 2-bedroom Oceanfront Marriott Maui Ocean Club, Lahaina Tower, annual floating week.


Very surprising.


----------



## csodjd

TXTortoise said:


> Wow! I’d started to assume it was going to take $35k, or $40k to safely clear in the future. I wonder if early in the year budget influences these or is it really a $/point threshold of $4.
> 
> Eagerly awaiting to see the next MOC 2BR OF old building sale threshold. A number of those on the market at $20k or so.
> 
> And for clarity, you got it for $28k and added closing to contract making it $29,100, which is what Marriott paid.


Seller wanted buyer to pay closing (of course). I asked the agent if he had any understanding of what has passed ROFR recently. He said he thought one passed at $28k. So I said, okay, then I'll offer $29,100 if seller pays closing (thinking that would create a little cushion on the ROFR). I don't know if Marriott is paying that or if the adjust for closing, recognizing that the gain to the seller would only be $28k after closing costs.


----------



## csodjd

JIMinNC said:


> The more of these ROFR exercises I see, I'm feeling better and better about our little EOY-Odd 2BR OV MOC original building we got past ROFR at $8,000 almost exactly one year ago. I can't even remember seeing another EOY-Odd 2BR OV even listed since then.
> 
> Looking forward to our trip in less than two months! First time back to Hawaii since 2011!



I currently have an EOY-Odd OF 2-Bed in the new buildings. I've been looking for an even year to turn it into an annual in effect, but haven't seen one come up over the past year or so. So, I thought I'd just buy an annual and either rent out the odd-year or stay for a couple of weeks every other year (not such a bad deal... in fact, with lock off could stay for a month, but if I did that I'm not sure I'd be able to extract my wife back into the real world). I paid $13.5k for the EOY-Odd a couple of years back. That tells me prices are MOC are holding steady or going up!


----------



## mjm1

We recently bought a Platinum Newport Coast Villas unit which passed ROFR for $7,800 and the seller paid the closing costs. It was listed for $7,500 plus closing costs and I proposed the final arrangement which was accepted. I added it to the database. We debated adding this resort, which we love, to our portfolio, but decided to move forward so we can escape the summer heat in Las Vegas. Looking forward to it.

Best regards.

Mike


----------



## MOXJO7282

csodjd said:


> FYI, Marriott just exercised their ROFR on my $29,100 offer (seller to pay closing costs) for a 2-bedroom Oceanfront Marriott Maui Ocean Club, Lahaina Tower, annual floating week.


I looked back and in 2017 I bought the same unit and it passed at $19,700. It's very interesting to see when and where they executed ROFR. From what I've seen it is sometimes hard to figure out the rhythm or reason.


----------



## JIMinNC

MOXJO7282 said:


> I looked back and in 2017 I bought the same unit and it passed at $19,700. It's very interesting to see when and where they executed ROFR. From what I've seen it is sometimes hard to figure out the rhythm or reason.



It can definitely be somewhat unpredictable, but from this thread it definitely seems they have been much more aggressive in buying back at higher prices for the last year or so. That fits with what senior management has been telling investment analysts during their quarterly earnings conference calls - inventory repurchase is their main strategy now to build lower. most inventory for resale in the trust, more so than new property construction, which is higher cost. Until we have a true economic slowdown, the days of cheap prime weeks may be over for a while.


----------



## TXTortoise

MOXJO7282 said:


> I looked back and in 2017 I bought the same unit and it passed at $19,700. It's very interesting to see when and where they executed ROFR. From what I've seen it is sometimes hard to figure out the rhythm or reason.



Mox, I believe your eBay $19K Lahaina and the $17K MOC by Hangloose, both 2BR OF, were the lowest I remember since 2017 for MOC, until you go back to 2013 on ROFR.net.

For folks that want out of their weeks, at least at MOC, a new strategy might be finding a buyer that wouldn't mind getting a week cheap, but if it got ROFR'd they wouldn't really care....sell a bit below market, but above a giveaway price and basically target Marriott as the buyer.  I bet the three or four listed on Redweek for under $25K could do that and even save their broker fees going direct.  Just have to find a 'buyer'.


----------



## csodjd

TXTortoise said:


> Mox, I believe your eBay $19K Lahaina and the $17K MOC by Hangloose, both 2BR OF, were the lowest I remember since 2017 for MOC, until you go back to 2013 on ROFR.net.
> 
> For folks that want out of their weeks, at least at MOC, a new strategy might be finding a buyer that wouldn't mind getting a week cheap, but if it got ROFR'd they wouldn't really care....sell a bit below market, but above a giveaway price and basically target Marriott as the buyer.  I bet the three or four listed on Redweek for under $25K could do that and even save their broker fees going direct.  Just have to find a 'buyer'.


Let me put a different twist on this. Let's assume there are 2 or 3 for sale at $28k. It would make no sense for Marriott not to just buy those as opposed to exercising a ROFR at $30k. So, one would hope buyers would not bite at those ROFR setups. Seems to me the key to getting past ROFR would be to have a sale for more than the lowest on the market. I wonder if Marriott ever just buys right off the Redweek for sale list? If you're Marriott, why not just offer someone selling for $28k about $27k, rather than a ROFR at $29k?


----------



## csodjd

MOXJO7282 said:


> I looked back and in 2017 I bought the same unit and it passed at $19,700. It's very interesting to see when and where they executed ROFR. From what I've seen it is sometimes hard to figure out the rhythm or reason.


Really? $19,700? For a 2-bed OF Lahaina/Napili annual unit? That's a great buy!


----------



## hangloose

TXTortoise said:


> Mox, I believe your eBay $19K Lahaina and the $17K MOC by Hangloose, both 2BR OF, were the lowest I remember since 2017 for MOC, until you go back to 2013 on ROFR.net.
> 
> For folks that want out of their weeks, at least at MOC, a new strategy might be finding a buyer that wouldn't mind getting a week cheap, but if it got ROFR'd they wouldn't really care....sell a bit below market, but above a giveaway price and basically target Marriott as the buyer.  I bet the three or four listed on Redweek for under $25K could do that and even save their broker fees going direct.  Just have to find a 'buyer'.



I think Marriott ROFR will ebb and flow.  Appears MVCI is picking up a lot of weeks recently via ROFR, especially high value weeks like Hawaii.  A few years ago they were not.  When I purchased my MOC a couple years ago as Ralph indicated, I felt at that time that I got a 'fair' price.  Not a steal but not bad price either.  Watching ROFR over the past year has made me feel a bit better about my purchase given recent ROFR trends are much higher.  I suggest those looking to purchase MOC, either keep trying at reasonable price points to pass ROFR...or rent for a year and try and purchase at a later point when ROFR slows.  It will happen eventually.


----------



## TXTortoise

hangloose said:


> I think Marriott ROFR will ebb and flow.  Appears MVCI is picking up a lot of weeks recently via ROFR, especially high value weeks like Hawaii.  A few years ago they were not.  When I purchased my MOC a couple years ago as Ralph indicated, I felt at that time that I got a 'fair' price.  Not a steal but not bad price either.  Watching ROFR over the past year has made me feel a bit better about my purchase given recent ROFR trends are much higher.  I suggest those looking to purchase MOC, either keep trying at reasonable price points to pass ROFR...or rent for a year and try and purchase at a later point when ROFR slows.  It will happen eventually.



I got my MOC 2BR OF at about the same time for $18K and was real happy, particularly as EOY weeks were maybe $10-$12K, if I remember correctly.


----------



## vol_90

Just received notice that I passed Marriott ROFR on an Annual Desert Springs Villas II White season week for $0 plus closing fees (found on Redweek).  Marriott exercised ROFR on a $1 price for the Marriott Legends Edge Platinum week on 12/19/18.


----------



## Dean

vol_90 said:


> Just received notice that I passed Marriott ROFR on an Annual Desert Springs Villas II White season week for $0 plus closing fees (found on Redweek).  Marriott exercised ROFR on a $1 price for the Marriott Legends Edge Platinum week on 12/19/18.


With the higher fees right now at LE, that was likely a blessing they took it.


----------



## NYFLTRAVELER

I know I’ve posted this in another thread,  but  question for the group on this thread....

Is $5000 for a Aruba Surf Club 2br floating gold Oceanside view (weeks 18-50 MF$1870) resale a good deal, decent deal or bad deal?    When I was recently there on tour Marriott was selling the same week (with ability to convert the week to 2575 DC points) for somewhere between $18-20k (don’t remember the exact amount or view) which I obviously declined.


----------



## Theiggy

As I said in the other thread, that’s about the going price for Oceanside. Based on the points you mentioned-  the week at Marriott presentation must have been garden view. Keep in mind the resale week will not be eligible to enroll in points program. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## NYFLTRAVELER

Theiggy said:


> As I said in the other thread, that’s about the going price for Oceanside. Based on the points you mentioned-  the week at Marriott presentation must have been garden view. Keep in mind the resale week will not be eligible to enroll in points program.



Yes. Cannot convert to Points. Do you think $5k is a fair purchase price  ?


----------



## MOXJO7282

NYFLTRAVELER said:


> Yes. Cannot convert to Points. Do you think $5k is a fair purchase price  ?


It looks like there was a Aruba Surf 2BDRM OV Gold that sold on Ebay for $5300 with $500 closing. Ebay is usually the cheapest buying platform so I'd have to say $5k for an OS gold would be considered a good deal.


----------



## jmhpsu93

Two Grande Vista 2BR Gold weeks in ROFR, one for $2029, one for $516.  Both include all closing costs and 2019 week usage.  First one submitted 1/24 and the second should go out today, I think.


----------



## jmhpsu93

jmhpsu93 said:


> Two Grande Vista 2BR Gold weeks in ROFR, one for $2029, one for $516.  Both include all closing costs and 2019 week usage.  First one submitted 1/24 and the second should go out today, I think.


Broker received ROFR waiver on first one today.  Hope to slip the second one in past the goalie.  Will record on rofr.net once the transfer is complete.


----------



## Mlvnsmly

I just had ROFR waived for Oceana Palms Gold Oceanfront week for $8500.  It came back in 2 days.  At a glance, the price looks high, but there were very few OF units sold as weeks originally (due to the fact that the resort is relatively new and the change to the DC program) so the resale market is almost non existent.  I made an offer once before, but marriott exercised at $3700.  There was another that asked anywhere from 6k-8k but the seller would always disappear when the offer was sent.  The only other ones I've seen are generally asking around 17k-19k.  I will add it to ROFR.net.


----------



## GoldenVIKE

Hi all, just wanted to run a points resale past this group since you as a community have been so helpful in the past.

As a buyer, I'm considering a contract to increase our MVCI ownership by 2,500 points from 7,850 pts to 10,350 pts.  (We currently own 4000 DC points plus an enrolled week at Ocean Pointe w/ conversion value of 3,850 in case you're wondering about the odd number of current ownership)

Anyway, the resale we're considering buying is structured like this:
- We (buyers) pay $15,299 which is broken down as: $5,850 purchase price ($2.34/pt) + $7,500 xfer fee + $95 ROFR fee + $199 closing costs + $1,655 2019 MFs + $300 education fee MINUS $300 education fee waiver due to current ownership status.
- Sellers bring $13,950 to closing, so that the contract actually reads that the purchase price is $19,800 ($7.92/pt), which with after all of the aforementioned fees the total contract amount is $29,549 ($29,249 after education fee is waived).

Based on this I'd imagine the risk of ROFR being exercised is roughly 0%.  It surprises me that the sellers would be up for bringing so much to the table to close.  I'm sure that includes a broker fee but sheesh.  The broker seems to be reputable and they've had very good and professional communication (emails, phone call, docusign, etc).  Also a good BBB rating: https://www.bbb.org/us/fl/ocoee/pro...keting/the-timeshare-group-llc-0733-174740553 

This seems like a good/fair deal.  Any red flags??


----------



## Fasttr

GoldenVIKE said:


> Hi all, just wanted to run a points resale past this group since you as a community have been so helpful in the past.
> 
> As a buyer, I'm considering a contract to increase our MVCI ownership by 2,500 points from 7,850 pts to 10,350 pts.  (We currently own 4000 DC points plus an enrolled week at Ocean Pointe w/ conversion value of 3,850 in case you're wondering about the odd number of current ownership)
> 
> Anyway, the resale we're considering buying is structured like this:
> - We (buyers) pay $15,299 which is broken down as: $5,850 purchase price ($2.34/pt) + $7,500 xfer fee + $95 ROFR fee + $199 closing costs + $1,655 2019 MFs + $300 education fee MINUS $300 education fee waiver due to current ownership status.
> - Sellers bring $13,950 to closing, so that the contract actually reads that the purchase price is $19,800 ($7.92/pt), which with after all of the aforementioned fees the total contract amount is $29,549 ($29,249 after education fee is waived).
> 
> Based on this I'd imagine the risk of ROFR being exercised is roughly 0%.  It surprises me that the sellers would be up for bringing so much to the table to close.  I'm sure that includes a broker fee but sheesh.  The broker seems to be reputable and they've had very good and professional communication (emails, phone call, docusign, etc).  Also a good BBB rating: https://www.bbb.org/us/fl/ocoee/pro...keting/the-timeshare-group-llc-0733-174740553
> 
> This seems like a good/fair deal.  Any red flags??


I’m confused about the sellers $13.95K. Do they have an outstanding loan on the points they are paying off as part of the transaction.  And how does what they are paying get added to the selling price?


----------



## TXTortoise

Since all Marriott cares about is the actual price/point, plus maybe the MF, but that's not part of the ROFR I wouldn't think.  
Why wouldn't Marriott just return the $13,950 to the seller, and then just pay them the $5850 as ROFR cost?


----------



## JIMinNC

Fasttr said:


> I’m confused about the sellers $13.95K. Do they have an outstanding loan on the points they are paying off as part of the transaction.  And how does what they are paying get added to the selling price?


 I was confused about that as well, but could it be an upfront fee paid by the owner/seller? I had heard those upfront fees are added to the ROFR price so if MVC exercises, the owner/seller gets their fee back. Is The Timeshare Group LLC an upfront fee company? Even then though, a $13K upfront fee to see points seems excessive for even those compnaies.


----------



## GoldenVIKE

TXTortoise said:


> Since all Marriott cares about is the actual price/point, plus maybe the MF, but that's not part of the ROFR I wouldn't think.
> Why wouldn't Marriott just return the $13,950 to the seller, and then just pay them the $5850 as ROFR cost?



The contract presented to Marriott doesn't mention anything about the seller bringing all this money to the close.  There's an addendum to the contact that stipulates that. I believe this is the broker's strategy of ensuing ROFR isn't exercised.  To Marriott it appears that the contract purchase price is $19,800.  

Part of me is thinking it's not really my concern why the sellers are bringing so much $ to close, but another part of me thinks this just seems fishy.  This seller is only paying $1,600/yr in MF - so why is it worth it to them to pay nearly a decade worth of MFs to get out of their ownership??  

For whatever it's worth the broker says they do 5 MVCI DC points resales per week with this structure.


----------



## GRCTahoe

To get pass a ROFR we tried to have the seller pay the MF's , closing cost etc to get the cost higher and MVCI still ROFR it.
They are getting smarter and reading the sections of they contract they did not use to.
I offered nearly 20% more on a similar unit they passed on last year and they ROFR it 2 days ago.


----------



## GoldenVIKE

I'm completely speculating here but perhaps the seller's contribution is just bogus, or perhaps it's a couple different transactions where they get most of it back.  Like, "Seller, you pay $14k at close but you get the entire. $6k per point plus $12k back of the $14k for a 'finders fee' or something... so at the end of the day the broker takes a couple grand, the seller makes a profit, the buyer is happy with the price, and MVCI just doesn't realize that these things sell for less than they realize.  If my speculation is right, Hopefully I'm not giving away industry trade secrets on here.


----------



## Dean

GoldenVIKE said:


> Hi all, just wanted to run a points resale past this group since you as a community have been so helpful in the past.
> 
> As a buyer, I'm considering a contract to increase our MVCI ownership by 2,500 points from 7,850 pts to 10,350 pts.  (We currently own 4000 DC points plus an enrolled week at Ocean Pointe w/ conversion value of 3,850 in case you're wondering about the odd number of current ownership)
> 
> Anyway, the resale we're considering buying is structured like this:
> - We (buyers) pay $15,299 which is broken down as: $5,850 purchase price ($2.34/pt) + $7,500 xfer fee + $95 ROFR fee + $199 closing costs + $1,655 2019 MFs + $300 education fee MINUS $300 education fee waiver due to current ownership status.
> - Sellers bring $13,950 to closing, so that the contract actually reads that the purchase price is $19,800 ($7.92/pt), which with after all of the aforementioned fees the total contract amount is $29,549 ($29,249 after education fee is waived).
> 
> Based on this I'd imagine the risk of ROFR being exercised is roughly 0%.  It surprises me that the sellers would be up for bringing so much to the table to close.  I'm sure that includes a broker fee but sheesh.  The broker seems to be reputable and they've had very good and professional communication (emails, phone call, docusign, etc).  Also a good BBB rating: https://www.bbb.org/us/fl/ocoee/pro...keting/the-timeshare-group-llc-0733-174740553
> 
> This seems like a good/fair deal.  Any red flags??


I don't see any red flags as long as the contract is not structured in such a way that you could get stuck owing the additional money in some way.  It sounds like that either the seller has a loan they are trying to get our from under or the broker is the owner and playing games with the contract to bypass the ROFR.  It's illegal in FL, and all states I know of, to attempt to bypass ROFR with a side deal.  Based on your last post above it sounds like this is the case.


----------



## GRCTahoe

did you look up the Broker License # to see if he has any violations?
I am a CA Real Estate broker and not sure it is legal, not have the terms in the contract. Means some one is not protected. MVCI is a pretty big company If someone found a way around their ROFR to the tune of 5 xs per week ? I think they might notice.


----------



## GoldenVIKE

Dean said:


> I don't see any red flags as long as the contract is not structured in such a way that you could get stuck owing the additional money in some way.  It sounds like that either the seller has a loan they are trying to get our from under or the broker is the owner and playing games with the contract to bypass the ROFR.  It's illegal in FL, and all states I know of, to attempt to bypass ROFR with a side deal.  Based on your last post above it sounds like this is the case.



Illegal?  Or against Marriott's policies?  Do you have a statute or case you can reference?


----------



## GoldenVIKE

Also just to be clear, I'm completely speculating as an outsider.  I don't know if that's the case at all.  It's just a scenario that'd make more economic sense to me.


----------



## GRCTahoe

so your net cost is 6.12 per point ? 15,299/2500points


----------



## GoldenVIKE

GRCTahoe said:


> so your net cost is 6.12 per point ? 15,299/2500points



Yes, or slightly less if you want to subtract 2019 MFs from the purchase price for the sake of calculating $/pt.


----------



## GRCTahoe

You said there was an addendum that stated that MVCI would not see that the seller in bringing in the funds. As Dean also said it is illegal in Florida and all states that he knows of. I am in California and Illegal here to. I would have to look up the reference. But common sense says if you hide it,  must not be good. Not sure what escrow company would go along with it, uness he is hiding it from them also. An amendment is suppose to part  of the contract to offer the protections of the contract but sounds like a side deal if MVCI dose not get to see it.


----------



## Dean

GoldenVIKE said:


> Illegal?  Or against Marriott's policies?  Do you have a statute or case you can reference?


Illegal, no I don't have a statutory reference.  The addendum would have to be submitted as well for it to be legal as I understand it.


----------



## GoldenVIKE

GRCTahoe said:


> You said there was an addendum that stated that MVCI would not see that the seller in bringing in the funds. As Dean also said it is illegal in Florida and all states that he knows of. I am in California and Illegal here to. I would have to look up the reference. But common sense says if you hide it,  must not be good. Not sure what escrow company would go along with it, uness he is hiding it from them also. An amendment is suppose to part  of the contract to offer the protections of the contract but sounds like a side deal if MVCI dose not get to see it.



Makes sense I'm going to ask the broker about all of this.   Not worth it to me to be part of a transaction that could put me in legal jeapardy or even just running afoul of MVCI rules, since there are legitimate ways of going about this that are roughly the same general cost.  Thanks everyone!


----------



## Dean

GoldenVIKE said:


> Makes sense I'm going to ask the broker about all of this.   Not worth it to me to be part of a transaction that could put me in legal jeapardy or even just running afoul of MVCI rules, since there are legitimate ways of going about this that are roughly the same general cost.  Thanks everyone!


They likely do closings in house or with a captive company so I'd bet not the first time.  Your risk is they could later void your membership if it does pass though highly unlikely they would do so.


----------



## csodjd

GRCTahoe said:


> To get pass a ROFR we tried to have the seller pay the MF's , closing cost etc to get the cost higher and MVCI still ROFR it.
> They are getting smarter and reading the sections of they contract they did not use to.
> I offered nearly 20% more on a similar unit they passed on last year and they ROFR it 2 days ago.


I also tried that and failed. I wonder how Marriott would approach a contract that said something like, Seller agrees to pay 2020 and 2021 maintenance fees. Then the price, of course, is increased by the amount of those fees. If Marriott were to exercise, would they be required to agree to the same terms and thus they'd have to pay the seller the higher price and wait for the seller to pay them MF in 2020 and 2021? I'm not sure Marriott could just do the math today because there is a "value" to the seller in getting more now and having a couple of years before having to pay those MF on behalf of the buyer.


----------



## Dean

csodjd said:


> I also tried that and failed. I wonder how Marriott would approach a contract that said something like, Seller agrees to pay 2020 and 2021 maintenance fees. Then the price, of course, is increased by the amount of those fees. If Marriott were to exercise, would they be required to agree to the same terms and thus they'd have to pay the seller the higher price and wait for the seller to pay them MF in 2020 and 2021? I'm not sure Marriott could just do the math today because there is a "value" to the seller in getting more now and having a couple of years before having to pay those MF on behalf of the buyer.


Sure but the buyer would be at risk for those fees so you'd have to know that if you got stuck it was still an OK deal.  I can't say how Marriott approaches a trade situation, say $$$ plus a car for example, but I know DVC requires you to put a $$$ value on the other items that's a reasonable market value.


----------



## GRCTahoe

MVCI dose not have to wait for MF's it is done as a seller credit at closing so in fact  MVCI pays the net lower price in the end


----------



## WahooWah

Marriott exercised ROFR on a 3BR Fixed week 48 unit 3206 in the Lahaina Tower at the Maui Ocean Club for $52,000.


----------



## TXTortoise

Looks like that is over $5/pt.  The Marriott algorithm must add more value for Maui and 3BR.


----------



## JIMinNC

WahooWah said:


> Marriott exercised ROFR on a 3BR Fixed week 48 unit 3206 in the Lahaina Tower at the Maui Ocean Club for $52,000.





TXTortoise said:


> Looks like that is over $5/pt.  The Marriott algorithm must add more value for Maui and 3BR.



My only reaction is WOW! And a week 48 at that. Not a super high demand week either - first week of December. Would never have thought they would have paid that.


----------



## TXTortoise

Unfortunately ROFR is starting actually set a high floor for more and more weeks.


----------



## bazzap

TXTortoise said:


> Unfortunately ROFR is starting actually set a high floor for more and more weeks.


I guess that may depend on whether you are buying or selling...?


----------



## GregT

WahooWah said:


> Marriott exercised ROFR on a 3BR Fixed week 48 unit 3206 in the Lahaina Tower at the Maui Ocean Club for $52,000.


That is amazing -- we've talked about the days when Marriott ROFRs the highest quality weeks, irrespective of price.  This appears to be the situation -- I would think it will reverse when the economy softens, but that is stunning to see.  Thanks for posting this.

Best,

Greg


----------



## taterhed

Well, I'm feeling pretty darn good about my WKORV OFD right about now.

Never could get my mind around the cost of a 2 or 3 br MM1 OF


----------



## Wahoo

Marriott exercised its ROFR on my attempted purchase of an OceanWatch Platinum-plus (July 4) ocean view week at $10k.


----------



## TXTortoise

Wahoo said:


> Marriott exercised its ROFR on my attempted purchase of an OceanWatch Platinum-plus (July 4) ocean view week at $10k.



So 3950 point value to Marriott equates to $2.53/point.

Don't forget to post to ROFR.net.


----------



## Wahoo

TXTortoise said:


> So 3950 point value to Marriott equates to $2.53/point.
> 
> Don't forget to post to ROFR.net.


It was worth a try... I didn't realize how good I had it back 2017 when I first started buying MVC and had several slide through ROFR in the $0.80-$2/point range.


----------



## chemteach

Last year, I purchased a Timber Lodge ski week for $4200.  Ski weeks there get 4325 DC points (but of course, it's not enrolled...)  I was also able to purchase a 3 BR Grand Chateau for $3200 including current year's use.  Those units get 4625 DC points (again, not enrolled...).  Glad I purchased last year.  (Some people say the Grand Chateau weeks are least likely to get ROFRed because so many weeks are already in the DC.)  It surprises me that the Timber Lodge Summer weeks only get 3300 points, when the ski weeks get 4325 points.  I thought Lake Tahoe was at least as busy during summer as during ski season...  Would be cool if Marriott ever had a reasonable cost method for bringing weeks into the DC...


----------



## Wahoo

Wahoo said:


> Marriott exercised its ROFR on my attempted purchase of an OceanWatch Platinum-plus (July 4) ocean view week at $10k.



Tried again, this time at $11k for another OceanWatch Platinum-plus (July 4) ocean view week.  This time it was successful, Marriott just notified they are waiving their ROFR.

In both instances, Marriott's ROFR response time was less than a week from the date I signed the contract.


----------



## GregT

Wahoo said:


> Tried again, this time at $11k for another OceanWatch Platinum-plus (July 4) ocean view week.  This time it was successful, Marriott just notified they are waiving their ROFR.
> 
> In both instances, Marriott's ROFR response time was less than a week from the date I signed the contract.


I'm glad this went through -- this is a high quality week and it's good to see that Marriott isn't buying all of them.  Congrats and enjoy your week!

Best,

Greg


----------



## Jo Jo

*Marriott Aruba Ocean Club - 1 Bdrm, Platinum Season
*
Does anyone have any insights in regards to minimum $ threshold for ROFR waiving/passing for Marriott Aruba O/C, 1 bedroom, ocean view, platinum season?

I am not seeing any recent updates in the ROFR DB for this property.

Thx.


----------



## jmhpsu93

jmhpsu93 said:


> Broker received ROFR waiver on first one today.  _*Hope to slip the second one in past the goalie.*_  Will record on rofr.net once the transfer is complete.



Kick save and a beaut.  

Marriott exercised ROFR for 2 BR Gold Grande Vista @ $516 all-in, including 2019 usage.


----------



## TXTortoise

After Marriott took the Maui Napili 3BR OF November fixed week at $54K, I thought I’d throw this out as another data point:

- Marriott Napili 3BR, fixed weeks 4-5, 5th floor I believe, listed at $55K each, $110K, buyer took both at around $120K to mitigate risk of ROFR.

For comps on the beach, a Hyatt 2BR OF, floors 5-8, Fixed Week 5 or 6, just sold for $65K. The other is still available.


----------



## TXTortoise

Just a couple of updates, from mulitple broker discussions...

Marriott Maui 2BR OF Floating Old Towers Passed at $25K last week
Marriott Maui 2BR OF Fixed Week 34 Lahaina Tower passed at $34K last summer, after we started seeing Marriott spend more money on ROFR.

The other Hyatt week mentioned above has also been sold. No price info, but given seller's situation, expect it was around $65K.


----------



## JIMinNC

TXTortoise said:


> Marriott Maui 2BR OF Floating Passed at $25K last week



Was this original towers or Lahaina/Napili villas?


----------



## jmhpsu93

Marriott Grande Vista 2BR lockoff gold season passed at $500.


----------



## Vacation fun

That’s great !!! Wondering if Marriott is slowing down on doing ROFR like they aggressively had been doing since they spent so much for the purchase of II, Hyatt and Weston just recently.


----------



## jmhpsu93

There's another entry in ROFR.net that Marriott exercised on MGV platinum 2BR annual @ $1975, so they're still awake over there.  The gold season week I just bought doesn't hold the same value renting, trading, etc., but it works for our purposes.


----------



## jmhpsu93

jmhpsu93 said:


> Kick save and a beaut.
> 
> Marriott exercised ROFR for 2 BR Gold Grande Vista @ $516 all-in, including 2019 usage.



And I'm not sure on how this one was presented to Marriott - I bought it for a dollar on eBay but I had to pay closing costs.  The broker may have submitted it as $1.


----------



## TXTortoise

JIMinNC said:


> Was this original towers or Lahaina/Napili villas?



Sorry, edited to clarify. The float was the old towers and the fixed was in Lahaina.


----------



## csodjd

TXTortoise said:


> Sorry, edited to clarify. The float was the old towers and the fixed was in Lahaina.


That makes sense. The old towers go for less than Napili/Lahaina. They exercised on me on Jan 10 at $29k in the new towers, 2BR OF float.


----------



## TXTortoise

csodjd said:


> That makes sense. The old towers go for less than Napili/Lahaina. They exercised on me on Jan 10 at $29k in the new towers, 2BR OF float.


I saw that, seemed to work out to right below $4/point..which would have been $29,900.  I wonder how close that was.  

It's the $54K 3BR Lahaina ROFR at $54K that is skewing the curve.  Was it a 3BR that was the kicker for them, as that was just over $5/point, or is there a Maui factor built-in to their decision.  Seems like it would be a pure points decision on Marriott's part, though I guess percent of a resort's weeks in the Trust must also play into it.  Wish we had a recent Lahaina/Napili 2BR sale in the 30s to see what happened.


----------



## TXTortoise

Does anyone have any insight on the mechanics of ROFR with respect to a contract with two or more weeks in it, and different price for each week.  Does Marriott have to take the whole contract or can they take one week within the contract?  Just wondering if you had a high price week and low priced week, both with the same points value...whether they would/could take the low value week, or if they were averaged out in the contract might both pass...or fail, for that matter.


----------



## csodjd

TXTortoise said:


> I saw that, seemed to work out to right below $4/point..which would have been $29,900.  I wonder how close that was.
> 
> It's the $54K 3BR Lahaina ROFR at $54K that is skewing the curve.  Was it a 3BR that was the kicker for them, as that was just over $5/point, or is there a Maui factor built-in to their decision.  Seems like it would be a pure points decision on Marriott's part, though I guess percent of a resort's weeks in the Trust must also play into it.  Wish we had a recent Lahaina/Napili 2BR sale in the 30s to see what happened.


Well, I'll probably never help you find out. I decided that since I have an EOY,-odd already, the economics of buying an annual or an EOY-even didn't make sense. Better to just rent during the even years if we decide to go to Maui. 

Assuming the $20,000 it costs to buy the 2-BR EOY-even instead earns 5%/year interest, that's $1,000/year, or $2,000 every 2 years (ignoring compounding) (I can buy $20k of AT&T and take the 6.8% dividend yield and do even better). The rental for the week is about $4500. The MF are $2500. That means I basically break even. No financial benefit to owning. It costs the same whether I spend $20k to buy or don't spend $20k and rent. And renting means I can come any day (lower airfare mid-week) and stay longer or shorter.


----------



## GregT

TXTortoise said:


> Does anyone have any insight on the mechanics of ROFR with respect to a contract with two or more weeks in it, and different price for each week.  Does Marriott have to take the whole contract or can they take one week within the contract?  Just wondering if you had a high price week and low priced week, both with the same points value...whether they would/could take the low value week, or if they were averaged out in the contract might both pass...or fail, for that matter.


When I bought my Week 23 and Week 24, they were bundled into a single purchase agreement, and I had a total price.  I didn’t allocate values to the specific weeks because I was concerned they might exercise on the lower one.  I’m not sure if they can, so it may have just been a precaution.

Best,

Greg


----------



## TXTortoise

A Maui broker had three MOC old building 2BR OF weeks bundled at $60K in one contract and lost them to ROFR.  He didn't think they'd take them due to total price, while we now recognize that points value seems to be the key factor and $25,800 is the points value at $4/point....and $25K passed last week.

Would have been interesting to have had them priced at incrementally with same average value to see what happens.


----------



## TXTortoise

I've probably read this, but not sure what the final understanding is.  To minimize the risk of ROFR does it make sense to have the closing costs, usually paid by the buyer, included in the selling price with seller paying the closing cost in the contract.  Basically seller would pay out of pocket, but would be reimbursed with full purchase price.

For example, a 2BR OF Lahaina Tower was lost to ROFR at $29K as noted above.  If bought at $31K, but it included $1K in closing cost, it would seem to be cheap insurance to clearing ROFR, i.e., $29.9K is about $4/point.


----------



## taterhed

As long as the contract is 'reasonable and customary,' you'll have no problems--bundle all the fees on the ROFR with the higher resulting sales price.  Can't hurt, but is unlikely to have much effect on these high-value resales. 

If you include a 'cow' or '3 magic beans' in the contract....you'll have more problems than Jack.


----------



## TXTortoise

I agree, at the $30k price point it’s really just managing around the edge.


----------



## csodjd

TXTortoise said:


> I've probably read this, but not sure what the final understanding is.  To minimize the risk of ROFR does it make sense to have the closing costs, usually paid by the buyer, included in the selling price with seller paying the closing cost in the contract.  Basically seller would pay out of pocket, but would be reimbursed with full purchase price.
> 
> For example, a 2BR OF Lahaina Tower was lost to ROFR at $29K as noted above.  If bought at $31K, but it included $1K in closing cost, it would seem to be cheap insurance to clearing ROFR, i.e., $29.9K is about $4/point.


Truth be told, I did that in the unit that did not pass ROFR. I've used approximate numbers here. Total price paid was to be $29,100. That included seller paying $1,100 of the closing costs. Of course, I have no way to know what Marriott's analysis was, if they noticed that, if it didn't pass even if they didn't notice that, etc. But I was thinking the same thing as you state here... pay more and have seller pay closing costs to increase chances of passing ROFR.


----------



## JIMinNC

TXTortoise said:


> I've probably read this, but not sure what the final understanding is.  To minimize the risk of ROFR does it make sense to have the closing costs, usually paid by the buyer, included in the selling price with seller paying the closing cost in the contract.  Basically seller would pay out of pocket, but would be reimbursed with full purchase price.
> 
> For example, a 2BR OF Lahaina Tower was lost to ROFR at $29K as noted above.  If bought at $31K, but it included $1K in closing cost, it would seem to be cheap insurance to clearing ROFR, i.e., $29.9K is about $4/point.



i've been talking to a broker over the last week or so about just this question. His opinion/understanding was that since the closing costs are spelled out in the Contract to Purchase, then Marriott would also use that number to calculate the amount due to Seller (netting it against the sale proceeds to the Seller, since the Contract specifies those costs are to be paid by the Seller). So his opinion was it shouldn't make a difference. I know others have offered the opposite opinion since Marriott may be able to close cheaper, so unless we know how Marriott actually looks at it, we're just guessing.


----------



## TXTortoise

JIMinNC said:


> i've been talking to a broker over the last week or so about just this question. His opinion/understanding was that since the closing costs are spelled out in the Contract to Purchase, then Marriott would also use that number to calculate the amount due to Seller (netting it against the sale proceeds to the Seller, since the Contract specifies those costs are to be paid by the Seller). So his opinion was it shouldn't make a difference. I know others have offered the opposite opinion since Marriott may be able to close cheaper, so unless we know how Marriott actually looks at it, we're just guessing.



I suppose on a $5-10K week, where closing on a Hawaii property could be $1000+/-, it might be a deciding factor, but the more I think about Maui prices at $16k OV, $25K OF, and $30K Lahaina OF, it's probably safer to just increase your offer a bit...or if lots of sellers, start low and work your way up from the last ROFR Fail number.   And FWIW, once you start shopping a few brokers for high-value weeks, I've been surprised the number of offers they've come up with, that aren't currently listed on RedWeek or even their websites.  Mostly fishing for 'what will you pay', but interesting, never the less.


----------



## JIMinNC

TXTortoise said:


> I suppose on a $5-10K week, where closing on a Hawaii property could be $1000+/-, it might be a deciding factor, but the more I think about Maui prices at $16k OV, $25K OF, and $30K Lahaina OF, it's probably safer to just increase your offer a bit...or if lots of sellers, start low and work your way up from the last ROFR Fail number.



Even on a smaller sale, it would seem to not make much difference, if what the broker told me is correct. The two major ways to structure a deal would be:

1) On a theoretical $4000 sale, with $1000 Hawaii closing costs paid by the Buyer, the Seller would get the contracted $4000 (before paying his broker) if Marriott waives ROFR. If MVC opts to exercise, they are doing their own closing, but could claim/show the same $1000 closing costs on their closing statement - since they are paying them anyway - but their "true" cost is only known to their CPA. We don't really know what it really "costs" an external closing company to close either, all we know is what they "charge", so MVC could also "charge" on paper whatever they want to since they are the Buyer and doing their own work of closing.

2) On that same theoretical $4,000 sale, it could alternatively be structured as a $5,000 sale, with the Seller paying the $1000 closing. So if MVC waives, the Seller gets $5,000 from the Buyer, but then pays closing out of their proceeds and nets the same $4000 as in option #1 above. If Marriott opts to exercise ROFR in this case, the closing statement would show them paying the Seller $5,000, but then perhaps just netting the same $1000 closing costs against their proceeds, so then their net cost is still the same $4,000 (plus their internal costs of closing which would have also been incurred in option #1).

If this is the way it works, which party pays closing shouldn't matter with ROFR. An exception *might* be on a points resale where the deal is structured with the Seller paying the $3/point Owner Activation Fee, something that Marriott would not have to pay if they exercised ROFR on a points resale, but by bundling it into the selling price for the points and having the Seller pay it, that might seem to present a more formidable "poison pill" depending on the technical legal wording in the contract of sale. There is no such significant fee of this type in a weeks resale.

Unless we could find an example of a ROFR-exercise closing statement on both types of resale week transactions above, we are still just making educated guesses.


----------



## csodjd

TXTortoise said:


> And FWIW, once you start shopping a few brokers for high-value weeks, I've been surprised the number of offers they've come up with, that aren't currently listed on RedWeek or even their websites. Mostly fishing for 'what will you pay', but interesting, never the less.


This is spot on. I have twice recently asked a broker (Syed) to let me know if anything came up (Marriott Maui Napili 2BR OF, Hilton Lagoon 2BR OF) where there was nothing advertised available, and within 1-2 days he had a unit for me. I decided against the Marriott and I'm waiting for ROFR on the Lagoon Tower. But the point is, the local brokers appear to have some "pocket listings" or inside track.


----------



## dlpearson

We just learned Marriott waived ROFR on our offer for a Maui Ocean Club (original) 2 bed/3bath oceanFRONT biannual (even year) for $8,500.  We're happy!


----------



## TXTortoise

dlpearson said:


> We just learned Marriott waived ROFR on our offer for a Maui Ocean Club (original) 2 bed/3bath oceanFRONT biannual (even year) for $8,500.  We're happy!



Just goes to show anything is possible.  A 2BR OF Annual failed at $20K (actually a contract for $60, with three weeks in it).  Be sure and add to ROFR.net


----------



## JIMinNC

dlpearson said:


> We just learned Marriott waived ROFR on our offer for a Maui Ocean Club (original) 2 bed/3bath oceanFRONT biannual (even year) for $8,500.  We're happy!



Wow. That's at least $3000 to $4000 less than I've seen any OF biennial sell for. Was there anything unique about the transaction? Like, for example, was it from an eBay seller who may have charged the selling owner a large upfront fee that was included in their ROFR submittal price to Marriott?


----------



## dlpearson

JIMinNC said:


> Wow. That's at least $3000 to $4000 less than I've seen any OF biennial sell for. Was there anything unique about the transaction? Like, for example, was it from an eBay seller who may have charged the selling owner a large upfront fee that was included in their ROFR submittal price to Marriott?


Nothing unusual or creative with the deal; just great luck.  Using reputable broker and title company.  I was mentally prepared for Marriott to take it, but so glad they didn't!! I've added it to ROFR.net


----------



## DEScottzz

I just heard that MVC waived ROFR on our offer of $2.67 per point for 1500 points, which will bring us to Presidential level. (There was a bit of funny business with the closing costs and other fees, so the number on the contract was higher.)


----------



## TXTortoise

Just another data point on Maui 2BR OF ROFR from a broker I queried. 

“In the last 90 days I have sold several OF units ranging from 21K - 25500.  They exercised all the way up to $24K. I would suggest at least 24500-25K to get passed the ROFR.”

In the past I’ve read where Marriott/MVCI hasn’t been as aggressive on EOY units.  Any thoughts on why, if true?  Seems like a Week is a week.  That 2BR OF EOY at $8500 was a steal.


----------



## JIMinNC

TXTortoise said:


> In the past I’ve read where Marriott/MVCI hasn’t been as aggressive on EOY units.  Any thoughts on why, if true?  Seems like a Week is a week.  That 2BR OF EOY at $8500 was a steal.



Only thing I can think of is it costs the same to close an EOY as an EY, but they only get half the usage. That's the only thing I can think might explain it if they are indeed less aggressive.


----------



## Vacation fun

Does anyone have an insight as to what criteria Marriott looks at when determining ROFR ? That is do they only look at price or do they look at what you own already by third party? Also when they do exercise ROFR do they then make them into destination points ?


----------



## TXTortoise

Most musings within the last year are that ROFR is managed around the points value of the week and sale price, but that metric can vary widely by resort and demand... and the inconsistency of the process. No apparent relation to the sellers status, just value to Marriott. 

Maui weeks have been taken when the sale price divided by the points value of the week has exceeded $4-4.50 per point, but as high has $5+/point.  Conversely an EOY Maui 2BR OF week passed at $8500. 

Budget availability may play into it as we seem to have seen a slow down in late 2018, while it’s been pretty active in 2019. 

I mostly track Maui, so others may speak up on other resorts. 

And yes, weeks go into the trust for points reservations.


----------



## JIMinNC

TXTortoise said:


> Conversely an EOY Maui 2BR OF week passed at $8500.
> 
> Budget availability may play into it as we seem to have seen a slow down in late 2018, while it’s been pretty active in 2019.



I wonder if that one slipped through because we are nearing the end of first quarter? Maybe they have a ROFR budget per quarter?


----------



## TXTortoise

Always wondered if they were monthly, quarterly or annually constrained. Just from my corporate days I’d guess quarterly. 

Any idea if their fiscal year is standard calendar based.


----------



## JIMinNC

TXTortoise said:


> Always wondered if they were monthly, quarterly or annually constrained. Just from my corporate days I’d guess quarterly.
> 
> Any idea if their fiscal year is standard calendar based.



As I recall its standard Jan1-Dec 31. Used to be slightly different, but a year or so ago they realigned with the calendar as I recall.


----------



## taffy19

TXTortoise said:


> Most musings within the last year are that ROFR is managed around the points value of the week and sale price, but that metric can vary widely by resort and demand... and the inconsistency of the process. No apparent relation to the sellers status, just value to Marriott.
> 
> Maui weeks have been taken when the sale price divided by the points value of the week has exceeded $4-4.50 per point, but as high has $5+/point.  Conversely an EOY Maui 2BR OF week passed at $8500.
> 
> Budget availability may play into it as we seem to have seen a slow down in late 2018, while it’s been pretty active in 2019.
> 
> I mostly track Maui, so others may speak up on other resorts.
> 
> And yes, weeks go into the trust for points reservations.


I found out yesterday that 23% of the fixed week/units in Maui are in the trust already.

The sales person also said that 73% of all the Legacy weeks are in the trust already.

He also showed how the trust points have gone up in price since the beginning.

Here is the chart.





There is now speculation that Marriott is looking to buy the Hyatt hotel brand next because Marriott was looking at a certain amount of rooms and that seems to be coinciding with the same number of rooms that the Hyatt Hotel brand has at the moment.  He made sure that I understood that it was speculation and not fact.


----------



## dioxide45

taffy19 said:


> I found out yesterday that 23% of the fixed week/units in Maui are in the trust already.
> 
> The sales person also said that 73% of all the Legacy weeks are in the trust already.


I think we would want to clarify in the trust vs. enrolled. It is possible perhaps that 73% of weeks are in the trust and also enrolled. But there certainly are not 73% of all weeks in the trust. It is probably closer to 15%. Can't speak to the fixed weeks, but I would think that the number may be a little hight. Also possible that not as many fixed week Maui owners enrolled because they use their week every year and there was no real benefit to them to enroll.


----------



## TXTortoise

Agree, the 73% would also reflect that many original owners still have their weeks and are enrolled.

With respect to fixed weeks, excluding Christmas/New Years in MOC, the Lahaina (25)/Napili (14) towers have 39 fixed units for a given week.  It may vary slightly since they changed the allocation during the final sales period, from what I understand.

That's 2028 weeks, with 28% = 568 weeks.

I've not seen a Lahaina 9th floor 2BR OF on the resale market in the last two years, which makes me think that the 2BRs on that floor may be in the Trust.  I don't remember off-hand when both towers were completed, but if prior to June-2010, I would think a large number of those are still owned by the original buyers and possibly enrolled.

So even if the 23% includes enrolled, it does suggest that Marriott might push for easier enrollment opportunities, maybe next year as GregT has suggested, to improve Trust inventory.


----------



## taffy19

I wrote the figures down but will double check again.

At least, the chart should give you the missing dates of the price increases of the trust points since the beginning.

There was no talk of a price increase like they usually do.


----------



## Wahoo

I've been on a bit of an MVC buying spree this month, so thought I'd add the following data points.  I don't know if there is a precise formula that Marriott uses when deciding whether or not to exercise its ROFR -- it seems like it's not _just_ $/pt, but that's probably the main factor with some additional variables thrown in such as the quality of the next reservation date tied to the week, 2019 vs 2020 as the next usage year, the number of weeks already enrolled or owned by the trust at the specific resort, Marriott's ROFR budget (I had quality weeks passing ROFR in 2017 at ~$1.50/pt, which is not happening now), etc.  I'll add these to ROFR.net soon.

My ROFR experiences for March 2019:
Summit Watch Platinum
$11,250 ($2.54/point) -- *Failed*
$12,500 ($2.82/point) -- Passed

Grande Ocean Platinum, Oceanside
$10,500 ($2.50/point) -- Passed

Oceanwatch Platinum Plus (4th of July), Ocean View
$10,000 ($2.53/point) -- *Failed*
$11,000 ($2.78/point) -- Passed

Mountainside Platinum
$15,000 ($2.80/point) -- Passed


_($/pt numbers included for statistical purposes only of course, these are all non-enrollable resale weeks)_


----------



## TXTortoise

Good info,

I had a discussion with a major Marriott broker yesterday and he reiterated the inconsistent decisions. He noted that they seemed to not be exercising ROFR on DPs at all during the first part of the year.

He also had a weeks sale with two identical weeks, same buyer, same price, two contracts. Marriott took one, but not the other.  Just strange...


----------



## taffy19

dioxide45 said:


> I think we would want to clarify in the trust vs. enrolled. It is possible perhaps that 73% of weeks are in the trust and also enrolled. But there certainly are not 73% of all weeks in the trust. It is probably closer to 15%. Can't speak to the fixed weeks, but I would think that the number may be a little hight. Also possible that not as many fixed week Maui owners enrolled because they use their week every year and there was no real benefit to them to enroll.


I went back to the sales office again today and spoke with a sales manager first and then to the sales person who did the update.

You are right that these figures represent trust points AND enrolled DC points together.

He did not say that or I would have written this down because it makes a big difference to me if they are close to reaching the majority vote and can decide to change the CC&Rs and reservation system completely to streamline it better to a pure points system like the Hilton or Disney systems are.

I am very relieved to find out today that they haven’t reached that point yet.  I asked him today if he had the breakdown of real trust points in the trust but that figure is not shared with them.  I would like to find out and wonder how.


----------



## bazzap

taffy19 said:


> I went back to the sales office again today and spoke with a sales manager first and then to the sales person who did the update.
> 
> You are right that these figures represent trust points AND enrolled DC points together.
> 
> He did not say that or I would have written this down because it makes a big difference to me if they are close to reaching the majority vote and can decide to change the CC&Rs and reservation system completely to streamline it better to a pure points system like the Hilton or Disney systems are.
> 
> I am very relieved to find out today that they haven’t reached that point yet.  I asked him today if he had the breakdown of real trust points in the trust but that figure is not shared with them.  I would like to find out and wonder how.


The HOA should know that figure and release it if asked.


----------



## JIMinNC

taffy19 said:


> I went back to the sales office again today and spoke with a sales manager first and then to the sales person who did the update.
> 
> You are right that these figures represent trust points AND enrolled DC points together.
> 
> He did not say that or I would have written this down because it makes a big difference to me if they are close to reaching the majority vote and can decide to change the CC&Rs and reservation system completely to streamline it better to a pure points system like the Hilton or Disney systems are.
> 
> I am very relieved to find out today that they haven’t reached that point yet.  I asked him today if he had the breakdown of real trust points in the trust but that figure is not shared with them.  I would like to find out and wonder how.



My experience is that Sales uses the term "in the Trust" to reference exactly what he re-confirmed to you - meaning both weeks owned by the Trust and those that are enrolled. We TUGgers understand the nuances of the difference between the Trust and enrolled weeks, but that is a complexity that Sales doesn't get into. If you read the comments on the various Marriott Owner Facebook pages, you will quickly learn many/most owners outside of TUG don't understand the difference either. Many people call enrolling their week - "putting my week in the Trust."


----------



## taffy19

JIMinNC said:


> My experience is that Sales uses the term "in the Trust" to reference exactly what he re-confirmed to you - meaning both weeks owned by the Trust and those that are enrolled. We TUGgers understand the nuances of the difference between the Trust and enrolled weeks, but that is a complexity that Sales doesn't get into. If you read the comments on the various Marriott Owner Facebook pages, you will quickly learn many/most owners outside of TUG don't understand the difference either. Many people call enrolling their week - "putting my week in the Trust."


Thank you JIMinNC and bazzap.  It makes sense to keep it simple but I took it letterly and worried about it.  We bought for use only and be guaranteed our week and view as long as we own it.  We love our view and will never tire of it.

One more tibbit I found out was that 91% of the trust point sales are to present owners but TUGers may know this already too.


----------



## Theiggy

Tried to buy an EOY even platinum at Grande Vista (Florida club) $1,000 from a lovely Tugger. Marriott took it back. Boooo! I added it to ROFR.net


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## littlestar

Theiggy said:


> Tried to buy an EOY even platinum at Grande Vista (Florida club) $1,000 from a lovely Tugger. Marriott took it back. Boooo! I added it to ROFR.net
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Sorry it did not make it through ROFR.  EOY’s used to be a safer bet to make it through.


----------



## JIMinNC

We were just informed that we passed ROFR on an EOY Odd Island View 2BR at Marriott's Waiohai Beach Club in Kauai at $4,000. We received the decision in about 7 days. I've just entered it on ROFR.net.

We knew about dagger1's ROFR failure at $3750 from this thread, so I wanted to make sure we were somewhat above that. I considered a $3900 offer, but in the end, opted to go $100 more to provide a little more cushion and try to avoid a do-over.

Once we close on this new week, coupled with our EOY Odd 2BR OV Maui Ocean Club week and our HGVC annual ownership (both acquired resale a little over a year ago), will allow us to book three weeks in Hawaii every odd year.


----------



## TXTortoise

Jim, what was the points value of the deal, e.g, must be below $2/point?


----------



## JIMinNC

TXTortoise said:


> Jim, what was the points value of the deal, e.g, must be below $2/point?



Waiohai 2BR Island View is "worth" 4225 points, so halve that for EOY - 2112.5 points. So, $4,000 equates to $1.89/point for Marriott's "theoretical" valuation. Can't explain why they pass on Waiohai at $1.89/point and exercise some MOC new towers at $5/point or so. I assume inventory they want in the Trust has something to do with it, but hard to imagine that alone explains that big of a gap. The ROFR mystery continues!


----------



## csalter2

JIMinNC said:


> Waiohai 2BR Island View is "worth" 4225 points, so halve that for EOY - 2112.5 points. So, $4,000 equates to $1.89/point for Marriott's "theoretical" valuation. Can't explain why they pass on Waiohai at $1.89/point and exercise some MOC new towers at $5/point or so. I assume inventory they want in the Trust has something to do with it, but hard to imagine that alone explains that big of a gap. The ROFR mystery continues!



They will get you on the back end. Marriott will get you when you try to enroll the week in the Destinations Club. 

Congrats!


----------



## taffy19

JIMinNC said:


> Waiohai 2BR Island View is "worth" 4225 points, so halve that for EOY - 2112.5 points. So, $4,000 equates to $1.89/point for Marriott's "theoretical" valuation. Can't explain why they pass on Waiohai at $1.89/point and exercise some MOC new towers at $5/point or so. I assume inventory they want in the Trust has something to do with it, but hard to imagine that alone explains that big of a gap. The ROFR mystery continues!


Congratulations, JIMinNC.  Three weeks in Hawaii is really nice and especially if the flight is so long.


----------



## JIMinNC

csalter2 said:


> They will get you on the back end. Marriott will get you when you try to enroll the week in the Destinations Club.
> 
> Congrats!



Just a reminder, my calculations of values per point are not relevant to me since the week is typically not able to be enrolled (except with the purchase of a bundle of DC points during a special amnesty promotion). The cost/point is solely being used as a yardstick to try to measure at what price MVC might exercise or waive ROFR. Since MVC uses ROFR as a way to get cheap weeks for the Trust to generate points to resell, *their* cost per point may be relevant.


----------



## TXTortoise

I know the audience is small here, but with little data on ROFR.net, has anyone heard of any recent Lahaina/Napili 2BR OF closings and whether they passed ROFR?

That last report of the MOC Lahaina Nov Week 3BR getting taken in the low 50s (~$5/pt) on the high end and a floating week failing at $29K(~$4/pt), makes me wonder how much points vs the resort/room location and possibly whether a fixed week are additive value components in their algorithm.  It looks like a multi-week deal with an average value of $42K, should go...but always looking for more data. ;-)


----------



## icydog

Marriott ROFR’d my Platinum Newport Coast week that I sold too cheaply so I could complete the sale quickly.  It got ROFR’d in March for $6900 plus reimbursement for maintenance fees and taxes for 2019.


----------



## icydog

TXTortoise said:


> I know the audience is small here, but with little data on ROFR.net, has anyone heard of any recent Lahaina/Napili 2BR OF closings and whether they passed ROFR?
> 
> That last report of the MOC Lahaina Nov Week 3BR getting taken in the low 50s (~$5/pt) on the high end and a floating week failing at $29K(~$4/pt), makes me wonder how much points vs the resort/room location and possibly whether a fixed week are additive value components in their algorithm.  It looks like a multi-week deal with an average value of $42K, should go...but always looking for more data. ;-)


Are these imaginary points?


----------



## csodjd

icydog said:


> Are these imaginary points?


Not sure what you mean but it was my $29k floating week 2BR OF Napili that was ROFR'd by Marriott. Not imaginary.


----------



## TXTortoise

icydog said:


> Are these imaginary points?



They are the approximate $/points value based on what the week sold for against what Marriott values the week at in points.

For example; 2BR OF Lahaina non-President's winter week is valued at 7475 points.  So if it got ROFR'd at $29,900, that's $4/point.  Marriott seems to be taking pure points resale purchases priced at $4/point or less.   But that's just a single data point. Early in the year most resale points purchases were passing ROFR according to one broker, while we had the one outlier of a 3BR Lahaina tower resale taken at $52K, which was about $5/point.   Thus the ongoing unknown of what there ROFR algorithm might be, but points value seems to be a good indicator.

My focus is MOC winter weeks, so was just fishing for more ROFR reports.


----------



## JIMinNC

icydog said:


> Are these imaginary points?



As TXTortoise said, we're using the $$/Point valuation merely as a metric to try to predict/estimate ROFR results. Obviously for the buyer, since these weeks can't be enrolled, that $$/Point valuation is meaningless as far as usage is concerned. But Marriott *can* convert these reacquired weeks into Points (by putting them into the Trust), so we are theorizing the $$ cost/Point value metric may play a significant role (but not the only factor) in determining what the Marriott ROFR decision might be.


----------



## hangloose

taffy19 said:


> I found out yesterday that 23% of the fixed week/units in Maui are in the trust already.



For Maui fixed week/units, if Marriott picks up via ROFR...that week/unit is basically gone forever into the abyss of the Trust...never to be seen again on the resale.   Scary!   I wish fixed week/unit would work for me....as I would love to know my exact floor and unit vs the unknown of float weeks. 

For those with fixed weeks, hold onto them if they work for you!  Don’t let Marriott get them.  Maybe even pass them from TUGger to TUGger to keep within the family  .


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## beachgirl79

Marriot exercised ROFR on a gold oceanfront legacy week at oceanwatch that I was able to negotiate down to $2,000. It was a LONG drawn out process with a bad ending so I am not happy to say the least. I feel like we do all the legwork and they can scoop in with the deal.. I am not sure I have the appetite to do this again.


----------



## JIMinNC

beachgirl79 said:


> Marriot exercised ROFR on a gold oceanfront legacy week at oceanwatch that I was able to negotiate down to $2,000. It was a LONG drawn out process with a bad ending so I am not happy to say the least. I feel like we do all the legwork and they can scoop in with the deal.. I am not sure I have the appetite to do this again.



In my opinion, when trying to buy a Marriott legacy week on the resale market, negotiating the "best" deal becomes almost irrelevant, at least after a certain point. The most important metric is not how low you can get the Seller to go, but at what price will Marriott let the deal proceed? Obviously, given the unpredictability of ROFR, if you have a tolerance for possibly several "do-overs", maybe it would be worth it to try to slip a low-ball deal past the ROFR gauntlet. But if you want to try to get it done the first time, then ROFR threshold becomes more important than negotiating a rock-bottom deal, in my opinion.

That was my logic with our EOY-Odd Marriott Waiohai Island View deal that just recently passed ROFR. The week was listed at $4100, but given we knew of a ROFR failure at $3750 for the same week/view, that limited how much I was willing to negotiate. Without the possibility of ROFR hanging over the deal, given the $4100 ask, I might have been inclined to offer no more than $3500 or so, with a hope we could settle on something in between those two numbers. But given ROFR, I didn't want $100-$200 to force me into a do-over, so to be safe I offered $4000, it was accepted, and Marriott waived ROFR. Could I have struck a deal at $3800 or $3900? Most likely, but then maybe it wouldn't have passed. Who really knows, but I opted to put getting the deal through ROFR as my primary goal versus the best possible deal.


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## beachgirl79

Good point.. however, I don't know what to offer to get it past. That is the unknown.. It's all very frustrating


----------



## JIMinNC

beachgirl79 said:


> Good point.. however, I don't know what to offer to get it past. That is the unknown.. It's all very frustrating



ROFR.net is the best/only real guide. Maybe some good brokers could offer additional input. There aren't recent data points on ROFR.net for a MOW gold OF, but there was a $3000 Gold OV that passed, so if I wanted to increase my chances to pass ROFR, I would have been inclined to not do a deal for less than that. Maybe even try $3500 or $4000 for a OF? But you are correct, without a lot of data points it is still a guessing game.


----------



## gatorray

After renting a second points based week and letting the points owner know I was interested in selling my own single Platinum annual legacy week of 12 yrs at Ocean Pointe in Palm Beach Shores in February 2019, he made me an offer of $9000 and I was happy with that. His assumption was that MVCI would pass on the ROFR since the selling price seemed high enough. Wrong. Marriott exercised its Right and cut the legs off my buyer’s offer. I suspect this scenario will repeat many times at very high demand coastal resorts like MPB. I still get my money but I would much rather rent from this gentleman going forward than pay MVCI a dime, truth be told. Just think of how easy it is for Marriott to watch all the sale offers come in, no sales team no presentations no outside attorney fees etc. Just exercise the ROFR and resell or rent it out at twice the non-MVCI price. R


----------



## JIMinNC

gatorray said:


> Just think of how easy it is for Marriott to watch all the sale offers come in, no sales team no presentations no outside attorney fees etc. Just exercise the ROFR and resell or rent it out at twice the non-MVCI price. R



Just a slight clarification...Marriott doesn't generally resell or rent the weeks they exercise ROFR on. Since they no longer sell weeks, they put those reacquired weeks into the MVC Trust as a cheap source of DC Points, and they then sell the points. ROFR becomes an alternative to building new resorts to fund the points supply. But when these reacquired weeks get deposited into the Trust, they also become available for MVC Trust owners to book with our DC Points.


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## beachgirl79

Marrior exercised ROFR on a gold oceanfront floating for $4,000 purchase price. Second time in a week they exercised on same unit type.


----------



## MOXJO7282

beachgirl79 said:


> Marrior exercised ROFR on a gold oceanfront floating for $4,000 purchase price. Second time in a week they exercised on same unit type.


Gold OF what? Grande Ocean?


----------



## MOXJO7282

csodjd said:


> Not sure what you mean but it was my $29k floating week 2BR OF Napili that was ROFR'd by Marriott. Not imaginary.


Just agreed to one of these at $27k that included closing so let's see if they are consistent.  I assume they will because another TUGGER told me of another ROFR at $28k I think. They are really going after these Maui new tower OF units.


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## beachgirl79

MOXJO7282 said:


> Gold OF what? Grande Ocean?


Sorry!! Marriot oceanwatch grande dunes.. got rofr'd last week at 2k and today ar 4k


----------



## CDD

dlpearson said:


> We just learned Marriott waived ROFR on our offer for a Maui Ocean Club (original) 2 bed/3bath oceanFRONT biannual (even year) for $8,500.  We're happy!


Hi - congratulations - that's a great buy! Question - did that price include closing costs and transfer fees - or was the price actually higher with the fees?


----------



## TXTortoise

From ROFR.net, just saw where a Maui Lahaina 2BR OF Float passed at $30K.

This puts an upper limit from the $29K that recently failed, at least for this point in time.  Essentially passing at just over $4/point.

There is another one recently submitted at $26,500...so will be interesting to see if it squeezes by this week.

This all compares to some $2.09-$3 points deals that passed in January.  A broker did tell me ever point deal they sent in during January passed...go figure.


----------



## Fasttr

TXTortoise said:


> A broker did tell me ever point deal they sent in during January passed...go figure.


Keep in mind, even if they pass on a points deal, they still make $3 per point.


----------



## ski_sierra

FamilyEsq said:


> Marriott Grand Chateau - 2 bedroom - Platinum: Passed ROFR at $1,500.  Could not complete purchase because Seller deposited 2019 into II.  Seller wasn't willing to pay 2019 MFs and start usage in 2020 so I walked away.
> 
> Entered into another contract for $1,300.  I confirmed 2019 is available.  I hope this one works out.
> 
> I really wanted to find a Platinum Plus week for sale.



I tried $750 for EOY. Marriott exercised ROFR today. Entered it in rofr.net. Contract was submitted on Fri 4/19. Although it would have been nice to get this week, I'm happy to see that Marriott weeks are not difficult to get rid of. If trading doesn't work out I may have to get rid of this week as well.


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## TravelTime

I just realized that when Tuggers put in low ball offers and Marriott buys it back, you are doing Marriott a huge favor!


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## ski_sierra

TravelTime said:


> I just realized that when Tuggers put in low ball offers and Marriott buys it back, you are doing Marriott a huge favor!



Yes, they will find someone who will pay $20k for that same week. And the new owner may try to offload it for a low amount in future again. And cycle repeats.


----------



## TravelTime

ski_sierra said:


> Yes, they will find someone who will pay $20k for that same week. And the new owner may try to offload it for a low amount in future again. And cycle repeats.



I think TUG is actually driving down the resale market price for timeshares without realizing it! LOL

At the same time, TUG hates the developers. Yet if you win on one end through aggressive discounting, someone loses on the other end. 

I think TUG would do a better job of maintaining the resale market by making full price offers that Marriott will not buy back.


----------



## JIMinNC

ski_sierra said:


> Yes, they will find someone who will pay $20k for that same week. And the new owner may try to offload it for a low amount in future again. And cycle repeats.


 
Not really. Marriott doesn't resell the weeks they reacquire through ROFR. They keep them and deposit them into the MVC Trust as a cheap source of DC Points. Marriott only sells points today, except for the resale weeks they broker and bundle with points for hybrid offers, and the weeks they sell at international resorts that can't be put into the Trust.


----------



## JIMinNC

TravelTime said:


> I think TUG would do a better job of maintaining the resale market by making full price offers that Marriott will not buy back.



This is sorta the way we have approached our three resale purchases (two Marriott, one Hilton) over the last year and a half. I wasn't concerned in the least with what was the lowest price the seller would accept. The only question I had was what price do I need to pay to get past ROFR? All else is irrelevant. If someone had a week I wanted, and if it was listed below what I thought would pass ROFR, I would even offer MORE than the asking price to make sure I get past ROFR.


----------



## ski_sierra

JIMinNC said:


> Not really. Marriott doesn't resell the weeks they reacquire through ROFR. They keep them and deposit them into the MVC Trust as a cheap source of DC Points. Marriott only sells points today, except for the resale weeks they broker and bundle with points for hybrid offers, and the weeks they sell at international resorts that can't be put into the Trust.



got it. does this mean that Marriott will continue to make life difficult for weeks owners since they don't like them? Make it harder to trade in II? 

I considered Marriott because they have a large network and their control over II would mean that it would continue to be good value in trading. Are there any signs to suggest that owning weeks with MVC is not a good idea?


----------



## JIMinNC

ski_sierra said:


> got it. does this mean that Marriott will continue to make life difficult for weeks owners since they don't like them? Make it harder to trade in II?
> 
> I considered Marriott because they have a large network and their control over II would mean that it would continue to be good value in trading. Are there any signs to suggest that owning weeks with MVC is not a good idea?



I don't really trade much (have only done it twice, and may never do it again except in an emergency), so can't really address this question. I dislike the trading process, so we use our owned weeks to go to resorts we want to visit regularly and our DC Points for flexibility to go to different places. We also prefer the more straight forward booking process we get with points.

There are many others on TUG who can address the trading question.


----------



## bazzap

I see no real sign myself of MVC making life difficult for weeks owners.
I have traded multiple MVC - MVC weeks through Interval every year since the early 2000’s.
The only thing I have noticed is exchanges getting confirmed later in recent years.


ski_sierra said:


> got it. does this mean that Marriott will continue to make life difficult for weeks owners since they don't like them? Make it harder to trade in II?
> 
> I considered Marriott because they have a large network and their control over II would mean that it would continue to be good value in trading. Are there any signs to suggest that owning weeks with MVC is not a good idea?


----------



## CDD

Just learned that Marriott waived ROFR on a Maui Ocean Club Original towers 1BR OV EOYO at $3200. Very happy!


----------



## suzannesimon

I think Marriott is getting desperate to add weeks in the Trust.  They don’t want to build anymore resorts but the demand for that type of vacation is very high and hard to get with points in some cases.  I’ve even heard of owners being “allowed” to give Marriott their week for free. I guess that’s their new exit plan.


----------



## Shaun

CDD said:


> Just learned that Marriott waived ROFR on a Maui Ocean Club Original towers 1BR OV EOYO at $3200. Very happy!



I think that may have been mine, that I just bought.  I’m very excited.  I just bought my first timeshare. I just got the deed but it is still going through the process with the Maui Ocean Club to get my membership ID. I bought a 1BR ocean view, every other year useage for $3,150.  I’m going to enter it onto ROFR.net as soon as I get my membership info. from Marriott. Yeah, exciting!


----------



## csodjd

Shaun said:


> I think that may have been mine, that I just bought.  I’m very excited.  I just bought my first timeshare. I just got the deed but it is still going through the process with the Maui Ocean Club to get my membership ID. I bought a 1BR ocean view, every other year useage for $3,150.  I’m going to enter it onto ROFR.net as soon as I get my membership info. from Marriott. Yeah, exciting!


Great price for a great resort.


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## ski_sierra

Marriott exercised ROFR on an EOY 2 BR Grand Chateau week for $1750. A few weeks ago, I had tried $750 and I thought about trying $1750 as I saw some weeks that had passed for $1k.


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## qlaval

7 days and still waiting for the ROFR... Aruba Ocean Club 1 BD OF Gold $4,000...


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## qlaval

Update: 9 days later Marriott did exercised their ROFR for an Aruba Ocean Club 1 BD OF Gold at $4,000...


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## BJRSanDiego

ski_sierra said:


> Marriott exercised ROFR on an EOY 2 BR Grand Chateau week for $1750. A few weeks ago, I had tried $750 and I thought about trying $1750 as I saw some weeks that had passed for $1k.


Looking at the database, it seems like Marriott is failing a high percentage of the Grand Chateau units.  A few years ago, it was much easier to get a "pass".

If you keep on trying by offering an amount that is close to the "strike" zone or slightly above it, eventually you'll succeed.  

Alternatively, consider doing a Google search of Marriott timeshares not subject to ROFR.  I recall that there were eight.  Desert Spring Villas 1 is one of them.


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## wmp0719

BJRSanDiego said:


> Looking at the database, it seems like Marriott is failing a high percentage of the Grand Chateau units.  A few years ago, it was much easier to get a "pass".
> 
> If you keep on trying by offering an amount that is close to the "strike" zone or slightly above it, eventually you'll succeed.
> 
> Alternatively, consider doing a Google search of Marriott timeshares not subject to ROFR.  I recall that there were eight.  Desert Spring Villas 1 is one of them.



Yes, this is what I did when I purchased my first Marriott TS. I bought a resale week in HHI (Summer) that was not subject to ROFR. I think there are currently 9 Marriott resorts not subject to ROFR and they all exchange through RCI and II still. They are: 
-Streamside: Birch, Douglas (Not Evergreen)
-Cypress Harbour 
-Desert Springs Villas I (not Desert Springs Villas II)
-Harbour Club 
-Heritage Club 
-Monarch 
-Royal Palms 
-Sabal Palms 
-Sunset Pointe 

If you are worried about not passing ROFR but really want to own in Marriott and possibly trade, then IMO I suggest buying from one of these resorts. My HHI resort trades well in II and RCI.


----------



## dioxide45

wmp0719 said:


> Yes, this is what I did when I purchased my first Marriott TS. I bought a resale week in HHI (Summer) that was not subject to ROFR. I think there are currently 9 Marriott resorts not subject to ROFR and they all exchange through RCI and II still. They are:
> -Streamside: Birch, Douglas (Not Evergreen)
> -Cypress Harbour
> -Desert Springs Villas I (not Desert Springs Villas II)
> -Harbour Club
> -Heritage Club
> -Monarch
> -Royal Palms
> -Sabal Palms
> -Sunset Pointe
> 
> If you are worried about not passing ROFR but really want to own in Marriott and possibly trade, then IMO I suggest buying from one of these resorts. My HHI resort trades well in II and RCI.


You missed Frenchman's Cove and Fairway Villas. From the FAQ Sticky;

Marriott's Frenchman's Cove • MFC
Marriott's Desert Springs Villas • MDS * (See note.)
Marriott's Fairways Villas • MFV
Marriott's Harbour Club at Harbour Town • MHH
Marriott's Harbour Point at Shelter Cove • HPS
Marriott's Heritage Club at Harbour Town • MHG
Marriott's Monarch at Sea Pines • MMS
Marriott's Royal Palms • MRP
Marriott's Sabal Palms • MSP
Marriott's Streamside (Birch, Cedar, Douglas) • MVB, MCD, MDO
Marriott's Sunset Pointe • MSN


----------



## wmp0719

dioxide45 said:


> You missed Frenchman's Cove and Fairway Villas. From the FAQ Sticky;
> 
> Marriott's Frenchman's Cove • MFC
> Marriott's Desert Springs Villas • MDS * (See note.)
> Marriott's Fairways Villas • MFV
> Marriott's Harbour Club at Harbour Town • MHH
> Marriott's Harbour Point at Shelter Cove • HPS
> Marriott's Heritage Club at Harbour Town • MHG
> Marriott's Monarch at Sea Pines • MMS
> Marriott's Royal Palms • MRP
> Marriott's Sabal Palms • MSP
> Marriott's Streamside (Birch, Cedar, Douglas) • MVB, MCD, MDO
> Marriott's Sunset Pointe • MSN



Thanks so much, I did miss those.


----------



## Dean

dioxide45 said:


> You missed Frenchman's Cove and Fairway Villas. From the FAQ Sticky;
> 
> Marriott's Frenchman's Cove • MFC
> Marriott's Desert Springs Villas • MDS * (See note.)
> Marriott's Fairways Villas • MFV
> Marriott's Harbour Club at Harbour Town • MHH
> Marriott's Harbour Point at Shelter Cove • HPS
> Marriott's Heritage Club at Harbour Town • MHG
> Marriott's Monarch at Sea Pines • MMS
> Marriott's Royal Palms • MRP
> Marriott's Sabal Palms • MSP
> Marriott's Streamside (Birch, Cedar, Douglas) • MVB, MCD, MDO
> Marriott's Sunset Pointe • MSN


And while it was included in your list, you didn't mention Harbour Point though it's on your list.  To my knowledge not all of those trade through RCI.  

I don't think FC, HP/SP, FV or Heritage do.


----------



## dioxide45

Dean said:


> And while it was included in your list, you didn't mention Harbour Point though it's on your list.  To my knowledge not all of those trade through RCI.
> 
> I don't think FC, HP/SP, FV or Heritage do.


I got confused by the math. @wmp0719 listed nine but there were eleven in the list on the sticky. So I identified two more. The problem was that in the nine, Cypress Harbour was listed, but it does have ROFR.

I also don't think RCI has anything to do with RCI other than coincidence. Early on with Marriott their resorts were affiliated with RCI, so most of those early ones trade in RCI as well as their new affiliation II. Some other resorts don't have ROFR for legal reasons, such as Frenchman's Cove.


----------



## Dean

dioxide45 said:


> I got confused by the math. @wmp0719 listed nine but there were eleven in the list on the sticky. So I identified two more. The problem was that in the nine, Cypress Harbour was listed, but it does have ROFR.
> 
> I also don't think RCI has anything to do with RCI other than coincidence. Early on with Marriott their resorts were affiliated with RCI, so most of those early ones trade in RCI as well as their new affiliation II. Some other resorts don't have ROFR for legal reasons, such as Frenchman's Cove.


Correct Marriott was with RCI early and as such, their early resorts were with RCI and when they moved to II, those resorts became dually affiliated.  HP as an existing resort was already with II so even though it was the earliest surviving resort in the system it is not usable with RCI.


----------



## CDD

Shaun said:


> I think that may have been mine, that I just bought.  I’m very excited.  I just bought my first timeshare. I just got the deed but it is still going through the process with the Maui Ocean Club to get my membership ID. I bought a 1BR ocean view, every other year useage for $3,150.  I’m going to enter it onto ROFR.net as soon as I get my membership info. from Marriott. Yeah, exciting!


No - this is one I bought for $3200. I'll post on ROFR.net once I have my deed in hand. I did see someone else bought one for $3,150 on ROFR.net - that must be You!


----------



## Shaun

CDD said:


> No - this is one I bought for $3200. I'll post on ROFR.net once I have my deed in hand. I did see someone else bought one for $3,150 on ROFR.net - that must be You!


Wow, congrats!  Yes, the $3,150 is mine.  I'm getting addicted now, I'm searching for some 2 BR's to buy.  The only bummer about just closing on it recently is that I couldn't book February (when we like to go) because it was all booked up by the time that I got my member number.  Oh well, there's always 2022 or I just might rent from someone.  I have mine up for rent for a January week that I found available.


----------



## TXTortoise

Marriott Maui Lahaina Tower... I didn't expect Mox' 2BR to pass at $27K, and it didn't.

Todd's did pass at $33K, equates to about $4.50/Point, which is starting to bracket the fail at $30K... Would suggest $33K might be new floor for 2BR OF Lahaina/Napili towers, but the ROFR wild card is still in play with a $30K pass in April.  

I wonder if the fixed week made a difference between the $30K pass and fail. ($4/Point)


Maui Ocean Club - Lahaina and Napili Villas 5/22/2019 Fixed 50 Annual 2BR Ocean Front $33,000.00 Passed Todd W

Maui Ocean Club - Lahaina and Napili Villas 5/15/2019 Platinum Annual 2BR Ocean Front $27,000.00 Failed Joe Cambra

Maui Ocean Club - Lahaina and Napili Villas 5/8/2019   Fixed 44 Annual 2BR Ocean Front $30,000.00 Failed Todd W

Maui Ocean Club - Lahaina and Napili Villas 4/1/2019 Platinum Annual 2BR Ocean Front $30,000.00 Passed Tres Gatos


----------



## Saintsfanfl

I think one of mine just hit a record. Shadow Ridge Villages Platinum exercised in one hour and fifty minutes. Has anyone ever seen a response that fast before?


----------



## JIMinNC

Saintsfanfl said:


> I think one of mine just hit a record. Shadow Ridge Villages Platinum exercised in one hour and fifty minutes. Has anyone ever seen a response that fast before?



I thought my recent Waiohai pass was fast at about 5 or 6 days. Yours must be a record.


----------



## TXTortoise

Pretty awesome. 

Beat my one day MOC three week package turnaround. Didn’t ask for hourly time stamp.


----------



## CDD

Shaun said:


> Wow, congrats!  Yes, the $3,150 is mine.  I'm getting addicted now, I'm searching for some 2 BR's to buy.  The only bummer about just closing on it recently is that I couldn't book February (when we like to go) because it was all booked up by the time that I got my member number.  Oh well, there's always 2022 or I just might rent from someone.  I have mine up for rent for a January week that I found available.


Or you can just keep checking back with Marriott for February.  Things often open up.


----------



## CDD

Saintsfanfl said:


> I think one of mine just hit a record. Shadow Ridge Villages Platinum exercised in one hour and fifty minutes. Has anyone ever seen a response that fast before?


You mean they took it back right? Or did it pass ROFR?


----------



## Shaun

CDD said:


> Or you can just keep checking back with Marriott for February.  Things often open up.


That's good to know, thanks.


----------



## CDD

Shaun said:


> That's good to know, thanks.


They told me some people call daily. Last year I was able to change my dates so I could string 3 weeks together. It was much better than having to stay in a hotel for one night mid-stay.


----------



## JoJo12

We are thinking of selling half of our MOC Lahina tower to a family member.  Does anyone one know if Marriott would be able to exercise ROFR on a share of a unit?  I wouldn't think they could.


----------



## vacationtime1

JoJo12 said:


> We are thinking of selling half of our MOC Lahina tower to a family member.  Does anyone one know if Marriott would be able to exercise ROFR on a share of a unit?  I wouldn't think they could.



The CC&R's prohibit the subdivision of a timeshare interest.  You could probably get away with adding them to your deed in exchange for quiet money, but that creates the issue of a shared co-ownership.  Tread warily.


----------



## Dean

JoJo12 said:


> We are thinking of selling half of our MOC Lahina tower to a family member.  Does anyone one know if Marriott would be able to exercise ROFR on a share of a unit?  I wouldn't think they could.


You would have to add them to your deed and if you have other ownerships it'll make the MOC a separate membership.


----------



## JoJo12

vacationtime1 said:


> The CC&R's prohibit the subdivision of a timeshare interest.  You could probably get away with adding them to your deed in exchange for quiet money, but that creates the issue of a shared co-ownership.  Tread warily.



We would just add a name to the deed, not officially split the interest.  We don't own any other MOC interest.


----------



## Dean

JoJo12 said:


> We would just add a name to the deed, not officially split the interest.  We don't own any other MOC interest.


It's not just other MOC interests but Marriott weeks in general that are the issue.


----------



## Bruyerebrit

CDD said:


> You mean they took it back right? Or did it pass ROFR?


They took it back - I was the hopeful buyer!  And on the second try too with another week at $100 higher!  The only bright spot was dealing with Saintsfanfl, an interesting and very experienced MVC owner!

I'm an existing owner of 2 weeks at Shadow Ridge (Villages and Enclaves) and the seasons are funny in Palm Desert, because us "locals" from SoCal prefer the summer heat (low/silver season) and it always seems busy to me then, but that could due to the abundance of II Getaways at great prices.  Marriott clearly want to load up the trust with the Platinum (winter/spring) weeks - I don't like those cold desert nights but everything's relative and I guess there are more snowbirds than I imagined!


----------



## Shaun

I have an agreement with a seller on a 1 BR Oceanfront EOY usage at the Marriott Maui Ocean Club, we will see if it passes ROFR at $2,500.


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## NTP66

I think that’s got as good a chance at passing ROFR as I do of winning the next five PowerBall lotteries in a row, personally.


----------



## Shaun

NTP66 said:


> I think that’s got as good a chance at passing ROFR as I do of winning the next five PowerBall lotteries in a row, personally.


Nice, that's a good one.  Well, at least I offered them more at $2,500 than their asking price of $1,000   You just never know...


----------



## NTP66

Hey, I’m still rooting for us both here. That would be an absolute steal for you.


----------



## echino

The guy's name is Marc? I offered him $2,500 too, and he is saying I am the highest bidder...

Have you seen the estoppel? Which deeded unit number is it?


----------



## Shaun

NTP66 said:


> Hey, I’m still rooting for us both here. That would be an absolute steal for you.


Oh yes, I know you are, I meant to say that in a joking way.  I'll let you know how it goes, the process is started.  I had nothing to go off of for price because I checked the ROFR.net site and asked several brokers and nobody had a clue on price so I thought that I'd have a way better chance at $2,500 than $1,000.  I recently closed a 1 BR Oceanview EOY for $3,150 w/ seller paying closing costs.  On this one I'm paying closing costs so I'm not sure how Marriott looks at the price, we will see.


----------



## Shaun

echino said:


> The guy's name is Marc? I offered him $2,500 too, and he is saying I am the highest bidder...
> 
> Have you seen the estoppel? Which deeded unit number is it?


Yep, I think that I just told him that I would buy it before you had emailed him so he worked with the first person, which is pretty honorable.  It's unit 4010.  What do you think the chances are?


----------



## echino

He confirmed to me that I am the highest bidder and that he is proceeding with me in the morning of June 6.

Chances of passing ROFR at this price are Zero.


----------



## Shaun

echino said:


> He confirmed to me that I am the highest bidder and that he is proceeding with me in the morning of June 6.
> 
> Chances of passing ROFR at this price are Zero.


That's interesting.  Oh well, I'll pay $50 to find out.  What do you think it would take to pass?


----------



## echino

Marriott has been crazy lately with ROFR at MOC, paying well over market prices. They are taking pretty much everything. I would guess around $7,000 - $10,000 may pass. This unit is not worth anything near current ROFR levels.


----------



## Shaun

echino said:


> Marriott has been crazy lately with ROFR at MOC, paying well over market prices. They are taking pretty much everything. I would guess around $7,000 - $10,000 may pass. This unit is not worth anything near current ROFR levels.


Holy smokes, that's crazy!  My OV passed for $3,150 about 1 1/2 months ago though.


----------



## NTP66

$3150 for that unit was a terrific deal, too.


----------



## CDD

I also got a pass on my MOC EOY 1 bed OV at $3200 but I agree with everyone else that if the OF EOY passes at $2500 that would be a miracle.


----------



## CDD

Shaun said:


> Holy smokes, that's crazy!  My OV passed for $3,150 about 1 1/2 months ago though.


The last MOC 1BR OF EOY listed on ROFR.net passed at $6500 in 2009, but of course that was years ago so $7000+ is likely what it's going to take to get it.


----------



## Shaun

CDD said:


> The last MOC 1BR OF EOY listed on ROFR.net passed at $6500 in 2009, but of course that was years ago so $7000+ is likely what it's going to take to get it.


We will see soon enough, I'll post the results here and on ROFR.net.  I guess we got ours for a pretty good deal.  I talked to a guy at Marriott Vacations today because I was inquiring if they had any resale weeks (they don't anymore, they just sell resale points per the guy that I spoke with) and he said that he can't believe the $3,100-$3,200 passed for our resale purchases.  I should've maybe went higher on the OF but I don't want to pay 6k or 7k for an OF when I just paid $3,150 for an OV.  I'd pay more, but not that much more.


----------



## CDD

Shaun said:


> We will see soon enough, I'll post the results here and on ROFR.net.  I guess we got ours for a pretty good deal.  I talked to a guy at Marriott Vacations today because I was inquiring if they had any resale weeks (they don't anymore, they just sell resale points per the guy that I spoke with) and he said that he can't believe the $3,100-$3,200 passed for our resale purchases.  I should've maybe went higher on the OF but I don't want to pay 6k or 7k for an OF when I just paid $3,150 for an OV.  I'd pay more, but not that much more.


There's 2 listed on Redweek for $5500.


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## Shaun

CDD said:


> There's 2 listed on Redweek for $5500.


I see that.  It sure would be nice to have some recent data on these, 2009 is a long time ago.


----------



## JIMinNC

echino said:


> Marriott has been crazy lately with ROFR at MOC, paying well over market prices. They are taking pretty much everything. I would guess around $7,000 - $10,000 may pass. This unit is not worth anything near current ROFR levels.



The unit is "worth" whatever the market says it is, and if Marriott is buying back at $7K to $10K as you say, that sets the market value, not what some people may list it for. Some desperate owner trying to sell at $1000 or $3000, who doesn't understand ROFR, is NOT the market. The market is what it takes to actually close.


----------



## WahooWah

JIMinNC said:


> The unit is "worth" whatever the market says it is, and if Marriott is buying back at $7K to $10K as you say, that sets the market value, not what some people may list it for. Some desperate owner trying to sell at $1000 or $3000, who doesn't understand ROFR, is NOT the market. The market is what it takes to actually close.


  Thank you for making sense on this board.    Marriott is a buyer just like anyone else.


----------



## ironman1124

Hi everyone!  I'm brand new to the site and forum.  I'm looking for info on what has passed ROFR for the Marriott Aruba Surf Club, specifically a 2 bedroom.  Is there anywhere I can find what has passed?


----------



## TXTortoise

ROFR.net


----------



## MOXJO7282

Just got word that a MOC Lahaina OV unit passed at $20,200 all-in.  This after failing on another one at $19,200.


----------



## MOXJO7282

Surprisingly I had a Lahaina OF float just pass at $27,599 all-in.  I also get back closing credit of $500 if i return the docs and final payment within 5 days so it really is $27k total cost but what makes this an especially great deal is it comes with an Aug 2019 week for free.  I'll actually be on Maui during the free week so I'm inviting more family.  I also got 40k MR points because I put down $10k deposits for both.  
Pretty good deal and goes to show you the inconsistency of Marriott's ROFR.


----------



## Theiggy

MOXJO7282 said:


> Surprisingly I had a Lahaina OF float just pass at $27,599 all-in.  I also get back closing credit of $500 if i return the docs and final payment within 5 days so it really is $27k total cost but what makes this an especially great deal is it comes with an Aug 2019 week for free.  I'll actually be on Maui during the free week so I'm inviting more family.  Pretty good deal and goes to show you the inconsistency of Marriott's ROFR.



Nah, I think it’s more that you buy so many weeks Joe, they are running out of $ 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## MOXJO7282

Theiggy said:


> Nah, I think it’s more that you buy so many weeks Joe, they are running out of $
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


The funny thing is I never thought it would go through so now i have to fund these 2 units which I really wasn't expecting to do.


----------



## Shaun

MOXJO7282 said:


> The funny thing is I never thought it would go through so now i have to fund these 2 units which I really wasn't expecting to do.


I think that we both have the disease. I have 4 different MOC that I’m trying to purchase that I’m waiting on ROFR. What if they all pass?? Geezz....


----------



## JoJo12

MOXJO7282 said:


> The funny thing is I never thought it would go through so now i have to fund these 2 units which I really wasn't expecting to do.


We are fixed week 32 Lahina tower.  What is your week for 2019?


----------



## MOXJO7282

JoJo12 said:


> We are fixed week 32 Lahina tower.  What is your week for 2019?


Aug 9th check-in. We're there Aug 11th-24th so if family uses they will be there before us. I'm in an Original OF for the first week and then Lahaina OV second week.


----------



## Vacation fun

We went to a presentation this week. Marriott is buying these up to do bundles with buyers so the buyer buys them then from Marriott and they make you buy points to go with it. Example Plantium Grand Vista 2 bedroom selling at $10,900. With the purchase of 2500 points


----------



## JIMinNC

Vacation fun said:


> We went to a presentation this week. Marriott is buying these up to do bundles with buyers so the buyer buys them then from Marriott and they make you buy points to go with it. Example Plantium Grand Vista 2 bedroom selling at $10,900. With the purchase of 2500 points



Most of the information we've heard here on TUG from more trustworthy sources (i.e. - not coming from a sales person's mouth) is that the weeks Marriott acquires through ROFR go directly into the MVC Trust to provide cheaply-acquired points to sell (cheaper than building new resorts), and are not resold (possible exceptions are Aruba, St Kitts, and Europe weeks, since those can't be put in the Trust, and thus must be resold). Every bundle I've been offered or heard of others being offered are true resale weeks where Marriott is operating as the broker between buyer and seller. The one bundle we bought  was such a transaction, and the transaction was between us and a Seller from Ohio, with Marriott as the broker.

If you think about it from a business standpoint, if Marriott can acquire a week via ROFR for a price that equates to $1-$3 per point for the point value of that week, and then can sell those points for $11-$14 per point, they can make a heck of a lot more money than selling that as a week. Using your $10,900 Platinum 2BR Grande Vista as an example, that week is worth 2775 points. If they can exercise ROFR at, let's say, $1000 to $3000 (prices that have failed ROFR on rofr.net), their cost for those 2775 points would be around $1 per point or less. But they can resell them for a discounted price of around $11-$12 per point, or $30,000 to $33,000. So, they can earn three times the revenue they would earn by reselling the reacquired week for $10,900.


----------



## Vacation fun

JIMinNC said:


> Most of the information we've heard here on TUG from more trustworthy sources (i.e. - not coming from a sales person's mouth) is that the weeks Marriott acquires through ROFR go directly into the MVC Trust to provide cheaply-acquired points to sell (cheaper than building new resorts), and are not resold (possible exceptions are Aruba, St Kitts, and Europe weeks, since those can't be put in the Trust, and thus must be resold). Every bundle I've been offered or heard of others being offered are true resale weeks where Marriott is operating as the broker between buyer and seller. The one bundle we bought  was such a transaction, and the transaction was between us and a Seller from Ohio, with Marriott as the broker.
> 
> If you think about it from a business standpoint, if Marriott can acquire a week via ROFR for a price that equates to $1-$3 per point for the point value of that week, and then can sell those points for $11-$14 per point, they can make a heck of a lot more money than selling that as a week. Using your $10,900 Platinum 2BR Grande Vista as an example, that week is worth 2775 points. If they can exercise ROFR at, let's say, $1000 to $3000 (prices that have failed ROFR on rofr.net), their cost for those 2775 points would be around $1 per point or less. But they can resell them for a discounted price of around $11-$12 per point, or $30,000 to $33,000. So, they can earn three times the revenue they would earn by reselling the reacquired week for $10,900.


Good point !!


----------



## Shaun

JIMinNC said:


> Most of the information we've heard here on TUG from more trustworthy sources (i.e. - not coming from a sales person's mouth) is that the weeks Marriott acquires through ROFR go directly into the MVC Trust to provide cheaply-acquired points to sell (cheaper than building new resorts), and are not resold (possible exceptions are Aruba, St Kitts, and Europe weeks, since those can't be put in the Trust, and thus must be resold). Every bundle I've been offered or heard of others being offered are true resale weeks where Marriott is operating as the broker between buyer and seller. The one bundle we bought  was such a transaction, and the transaction was between us and a Seller from Ohio, with Marriott as the broker.
> 
> If you think about it from a business standpoint, if Marriott can acquire a week via ROFR for a price that equates to $1-$3 per point for the point value of that week, and then can sell those points for $11-$14 per point, they can make a heck of a lot more money than selling that as a week. Using your $10,900 Platinum 2BR Grande Vista as an example, that week is worth 2775 points. If they can exercise ROFR at, let's say, $1000 to $3000 (prices that have failed ROFR on rofr.net), their cost for those 2775 points would be around $1 per point or less. But they can resell them for a discounted price of around $11-$12 per point, or $30,000 to $33,000. So, they can earn three times the revenue they would earn by reselling the reacquired week for $10,900.


That's exactly what I was told when I talked to a couple of people over the phone at Marriott this week in the resale department.  Any "week(s)", acquired by Marriott through ROFR are put back into the trust but if an owner wants to have Marriott resell their week or buy their week directly from them then they resell those "week(s)" in a bundle package and they may even resell that week to someone who just wants to buy a a resale week, from my understanding of our conversations. I talked to their acquisition and resale department in the past few days and from what you are saying, it lines up with what they told me this week.


----------



## Shaun

I have an offer in on a 2BR OV annual usage at the Marriott Maui Ocean Club, what are your thoughts as to it passing ROFR at 16k (includes closing costs, transfer fees, etc.)?


----------



## MOXJO7282

Shaun said:


> I have an offer in on a 2BR OV annual usage at the Marriott Maui Ocean Club, what are your thoughts as to it passing ROFR at 16k (includes closing costs, transfer fees, etc.)?


This will be a good test because I don't think we've seen a OV test ROFR lately. Good luck.


----------



## JIMinNC

Shaun said:


> I have an offer in on a 2BR OV annual usage at the Marriott Maui Ocean Club, what are your thoughts as to it passing ROFR at 16k (includes closing costs, transfer fees, etc.)?



Are you talking about original towers or new towers? If original towers, we passed about 18 months ago on an EOY at $8,000, so you would be exactly double that. So my guess would be for original towers, your odds would be good that it would pass. For the new towers, I would guess $16K might fail.


----------



## Shaun

JIMinNC said:


> Are you talking about original towers or new towers? If original towers, we passed about 18 months ago on an EOY at $8,000, so you would be exactly double that. So my guess would be for original towers, your odds would be good that it would pass. For the new towers, I would guess $16K might fail.


Thanks for the info.  Yes, it would be the original towers. Question - when I find out, do I enter on ROFR.net 16k (with closing costs) or 15k (without closing costs)?  Was your 8k EOY purchase with you paying closing costs?


----------



## JIMinNC

Shaun said:


> Thanks for the info.  Yes, it would be the original towers. Question - when I find out, do I enter on ROFR.net 16k (with closing costs) or 15k (without closing costs)?  Was your 8k EOY purchase with you paying closing costs?



My $8K was not counting closing, but I paid closing, so my out of pocket was about $8600. But what was submitted to Marriott was the contract that specified the sales price of $8K. The closing costs are irrelevant to MVC because they do their own closings.

What to put on rofr.net has been a subject of considerable debate here on TUG. I'm fairly sure there is no consistency in the data, as I know some have logged in the price without closing and others have used the all-in price. That is a limitation of the data I believe.


----------



## MOXJO7282

JIMinNC said:


> My $8K was not counting closing, but I paid closing, so my out of pocket was about $8600. But what was submitted to Marriott was the contract that specified the sales price of $8K. The closing costs are irrelevant to MVC because they do their own closings.
> 
> What to put on rofr.net has been a subject of considerable debate here on TUG. I'm fairly sure there is no consistency in the data, as I know some have logged in the price without closing and others have used the all-in price. That is a limitation of the data I believe.


I do put the full amount because i did think that is how Marriott sees it so all my numbers include my all-in costs. 

Also for us vets of TUG it is interesting to look back at our ROFR entries from years back.   I see in 2008 I bought a number of Newport Coasts for about $16k.  Now they sell for $8k.


----------



## Shaun

Great news, Marriott just waived their right of first refusal on my 2BR annual OV purchase at MOC so it looks like I will be buying it.  I don't have the paperwork back yet but escrow just let me know that it's going to me.  I'm buying a couple of 1BR units at MOC also and they are going in for ROFR today, we will see how those go.


----------



## MOXJO7282

Shaun said:


> Great news, Marriott just waived their right of first refusal on my 2BR annual OV purchase at MOC so it looks like I will be buying it.  I don't have the paperwork back yet but escrow just let me know that it's going to me.  I'm buying a couple of 1BR units at MOC also and they are going in for ROFR today, we will see how those go.


That is great news for you.  You can't beat the LO value of  the 2BDRM units. They are a great value for use and rental purposes.


----------



## eyedude

Shaun said:


> Great news, Marriott just waived their right of first refusal on my 2BR annual OV purchase at MOC so it looks like I will be buying it.  I don't have the paperwork back yet but escrow just let me know that it's going to me.  I'm buying a couple of 1BR units at MOC also and they are going in for ROFR today, we will see how those go.


Congrats.  Seems like more Maui weeks are passing ROFR the last couple weeks.  As I mentioned in a previous post, two of mine passed recently as well.  Makes you wonder.


----------



## Shaun

eyedude said:


> Congrats.  Seems like more Maui weeks are passing ROFR the last couple weeks.  As I mentioned in a previous post, two of mine passed recently as well.  Makes you wonder.


Thank you. Congrats to you too! Ya, maybe they are letting some go, mine is passing for 16k (all in, including closing, etc.). On the waiver that I just got back from Marriott the price is shows $15,000 on their document so maybe 15k would fly either way, who knows.  At least we have a little info. now on 2 BR annual ocean view in the original building. I'll see how my other ROFR's go soon.


----------



## JIMinNC

MOXJO7282 said:


> I do put the full amount because i did think that is how Marriott sees it so all my numbers include my all-in costs.





Shaun said:


> Thank you. Congrats to you too! Ya, maybe they are letting some go, mine is passing for 16k (all in, including closing, etc.). On the waiver that I just got back from Marriott the price is shows $15,000 on their document so maybe 15k would fly either way, who knows.  At least we have a little info. now on 2 BR annual ocean view in the original building. I'll see how my other ROFR's go soon.



What Shaun says above is how I have been told Marriott looks at ROFR - i.e. just the contract purchase price not including closing - not the all-in price with closing. The reason given was that Marriott does their own closing so external closing costs are not relevant. The waivers I received on my purchases also showed only the purchase price, not the price with closing. I paid closing on all of mine, but for the above reasons, I do not include closing in what I post on ROFR.net.


----------



## Shaun

JIMinNC said:


> What Shaun says above is how I have been told Marriott looks at ROFR - i.e. just the contract purchase price not including closing - not the all-in price with closing. The reason given was that Marriott does their own closing so external closing costs are not relevant. The waivers I received on my purchases also showed only the purchase price, not the price with closing. I paid closing on all of mine, but for the above reasons, I do not include closing in what I post on ROFR.net.


I would tend to agree with that because the $15,000 is what was on the waiver form from Marriott.  The confusing part is that several agents that I spoke with said that 15k would never go through and that Marriott had bought back a a couple in the $15,500 (net price) range.  So, who knows....


----------



## CDD

MOXJO7282 said:


> This will be a good test because I don't think we've seen a OV test ROFR lately. Good luck.


I bought a bi-annual 2bed OV there for $8750 recently that passed - so I agree that this will be a good test to see if $16K will pass.  What happened to the 1 bed MOC EOY OF that was for sale for a low price - $2500 or something like that?


----------



## Shaun

CDD said:


> I bought a bi-annual 2bed OV there for $8750 recently that passed - so I agree that this will be a good test to see if $16K will pass.  What happened to the 1 bed MOC EOY OF that was for sale for a low price - $2500 or something like that?


I do have the letter that was forwarded to me from the escrow company with Marriott saying that they are waiving their right to exercise ROFR at the $15,000 (without closing costs) so I think I'm good to go.  The EOY Oceanfront 1BR low price of $2,500 didn't pass, just like everyone kind of figured.


----------



## CDD

Shaun said:


> Great news, Marriott just waived their right of first refusal on my 2BR annual OV purchase at MOC so it looks like I will be buying it.  I don't have the paperwork back yet but escrow just let me know that it's going to me.  I'm buying a couple of 1BR units at MOC also and they are going in for ROFR today, we will see how those go.


I just realized I missed some posts - congrats on your purchase!


----------



## CalGalTraveler

TravelTime said:


> I just realized that when Tuggers put in low ball offers and Marriott buys it back, you are doing Marriott a huge favor!



Sure it helps MVC. I now believe low ball buyers are also doing a favor for sellers by helping them to unload quickly because life happens and ROFR can often be the fastest, most secure way to relieve them of their burden. It also helps existing owners by removing low end inventory quickly out of the market, making offers for resale more profitable for seller when it is waived and goes to a buyer.


----------



## TravelTime

CalGalTraveler said:


> Sure it helps MVC. I now believe low ball buyers are also doing a favor for sellers by helping them to unload quickly because life happens and ROFR can often be the fastest, most secure way to relieve them of their burden. It also helps existing owners by removing low end inventory quickly out of the market, making offers for resale more profitable for seller when it is waived and goes to a buyer.



It is sort of like buying a house in a short sale or in foreclosure.


----------



## Shaun

I have another purchase going in shortly 2BR OV MOC EOY for 8k, we will see how that goes.  As mentioned above, JiminNC had one pass last year at 8k and CDD had one recently pass at $8,750 so we will see.


----------



## TravelTime

Marriott waived ROFR on Waiohoa 2BR Ocean View EOY Odd at $6500. I am surprised Marriott is not trying to put the ocean view in the trust. I noticed that Marriott buys back most of the low ball offers. From reading on TUG, my offer was fair and in the ball park of what has been passing. I am hoping as an owner that I can get some of the few ocean views available there esp if I book early. I bought to use and I plan to use this as a week to combine with other timeshares in Kauai and possibly as a rental when I can’t use. I hope the OV designation will provide some extra value as a rental.


----------



## Shaun

Shaun said:


> I have another purchase going in shortly 2BR OV MOC EOY for 8k, we will see how that goes.  As mentioned above, JiminNC had one pass last year at 8k and CDD had one recently pass at $8,750 so we will see.


My 2BR OV Maui Ocean Club EOY usage just passed for 8k (plus me paying closing costs).  I'll enter it on ROFR.net as soon as it's recorded.

On another note my quantity (2) - 1 BR OV MOC EOY purchase on ebay was bought back by Marriott at $3,050 each.  That's kind of weird because I just bought one 2 months ago for $3,152.


----------



## TXTortoise

You know ROFR is aggressive when you worry if one of these weeks will pass. ;-)

My MOC Lahaina Week 11/8210 and Taffy19's Week 12/8210 (2BR OF) passed ROFR at $40K. Marriott's points cost would have been about 5.35/point.  They were sold to the same buyer...who would not have bought if we hadn't been able to bundle the weeks.   Done as separate deals, but contingent on getting both.  All parties are very happy. ;-)


----------



## Shaun

TXTortoise said:


> You know ROFR is aggressive when you worry if one of these weeks will pass. ;-)
> 
> My MOC Lahaina Week 11/8210 and Taffy19's Week 12/8210 passed ROFR at $40K. Marriott's points cost would have been about 5.35/point.  They were sold to the same buyer...who would not have bought if we hadn't been able to bundle the weeks.   Done as separate deals, but contingent on getting both.  All parties are very happy. ;-)


Wow, were these 2BR Oceanfront?


----------



## TXTortoise

Shaun said:


> Wow, were these 2BR Oceanfront?


Yes. Corner unit


----------



## taffy19

TXTortoise said:


> You know ROFR is aggressive when you worry if one of these weeks will pass. ;-)
> 
> My MOC Lahaina Week 11/8210 and Taffy19's Week 12/8210 passed ROFR at $40K. Marriott's points cost would have been about 5.35/point.  They were sold to the same buyer...who would not have bought if we hadn't been able to bundle the weeks.   Done as separate deals, but contingent on getting both.  All parties are very happy. ;-)


We had absolutely no intention to sell our timeshares yet in Hawaii but when an offer was sent to me out of the blue, I asked my husband what to do and he left it up to me.

I see the writing on the wall that traveling is only getting harder for my husband every year.   He refuses to use a wheelchair at the airport and that makes flying very difficult for me and I just dread it but forget it once we are there but for how much longer?

I am happy with the offer because we have enjoyed staying at our timeshare condo every year with a magnificent view since 2008 so we got our value out of it.

It is not all about money but peace of mind and enjoyment without having to worry about it because the condo was always waiting for us the moment we left until we were returning a year later.

I will miss the beautiful view but I have many memories stored on Smugmug and we can always return by renting something else equally as nice.

I wish the new buyer of week 11 and 12 the same enjoyment that we have experienced all these years and to enjoy the two weeks on a row in the same condo with her family going forward from here.

Thanks, TXTortoise for helping me with the documents, etc. I hope that our path may cross one day in Maui and we can buy you a drink or two to celebrate.


----------



## Dean

TXTortoise said:


> You know ROFR is aggressive when you worry if one of these weeks will pass. ;-)
> 
> My MOC Lahaina Week 11/8210 and Taffy19's Week 12/8210 (2BR OF) passed ROFR at $40K. Marriott's points cost would have been about 5.35/point.  They were sold to the same buyer...who would not have bought if we hadn't been able to bundle the weeks.   Done as separate deals, but contingent on getting both.  All parties are very happy. ;-)


As a seller why would one worry about it?  You get the same in cash either way.  I do wonder if the contractual requirement connecting the separate deals would have had any influence on their decision.  Unlike something tangible, it'd be difficult to put a price on that inclusion.


----------



## JIMinNC

TXTortoise said:


> You know ROFR is aggressive when you worry if one of these weeks will pass. ;-)
> 
> My MOC Lahaina Week 11/8210 and Taffy19's Week 12/8210 (2BR OF) passed ROFR at $40K. Marriott's points cost would have been about 5.35/point.  They were sold to the same buyer...who would not have bought if we hadn't been able to bundle the weeks.   Done as separate deals, but contingent on getting both.  All parties are very happy. ;-)



I seem to recall you posted that you paid less than that, so looks like you made a little profit. Congrats!


----------



## TXTortoise

Dean said:


> As a seller why would one worry about it?  You get the same in cash either way.  I do wonder if the contractual requirement connecting the separate deals would have had any influence on their decision.  Unlike something tangible, it'd be difficult to put a price on that inclusion.




The deals were not officially tied together. I was not overly concerned, but as my week went in first, if it had failed then the buyer would not have closed on Taffy’s. As you note, I would have gotten paid either way and I expect they would have taken Taffy’s also, if they took mine.

I did want it all to work out for the buyer’s sake, and of course for Taffy and me.  For the seller to get two prime weeks in the same prime unit was a pretty big deal and is what allowed the inquiry to my Redweek ad, which mentioned the opportunity of two weeks, to move forward.


----------



## Dean

TXTortoise said:


> The deals were not officially tied together. I was not overly concerned, but as my week went in first, if it had failed then the buyer would not have closed on Taffy’s. As you note, I would have gotten paid either way and I expect they would have taken Taffy’s also, if they took mine.
> 
> I did want it all to work out for the buyer’s sake, and of course for Taffy and me.  For the seller to get two prime weeks in the same prime unit was a pretty big deal and is what allowed the inquiry to my Redweek ad, which mentioned the opportunity of two weeks, to move forward.


That makes sense other than it sounds like that officially the buyer would have been obligated to the second week even if they'd lost the first unless it was in the contract.


----------



## TXTortoise

Not in contract.  Just nice grandmother from British Columbia trying to have a place for all her family to visit. Her plans reminded me of you and GregT’s extravaganzas.


----------



## Dean

TXTortoise said:


> Not in contract.  Just nice grandmother from British Columbia trying to have a place for all her family to visit. Her plans reminded me of you and GregT’s extravaganzas.


So legally they would have been obligate to one if the other were taken.  Given the way ROFR tends to work I could easily have seen one passing and one not all else exactly the same.


----------



## Shaun

The deed was just recorded on my annual 2BR Marriott Maui Ocean Club OV. What date do I enter on ROFR.net? The date of the waiver from Marriott or the date of recording?

 I think that I’m going to enter 15k on the sales price instead of the 16k (16k includes me paying 1k in closing costs) because the 15k amount is the amount on the waiver document.


----------



## dioxide45

Shaun said:


> The deed was just recorded on my annual 2BR Marriott Maui Ocean Club OV. What date do I enter on ROFR.net? The date of the waiver from Marriott or the date of recording?
> 
> I think that I’m going to enter 15k on the sales price instead of the 16k (16k includes me paying 1k in closing costs) because the 15k amount is the amount on the waiver document.


Enter the date from the waiver document.


----------



## toppats

Shaun said:


> I have another purchase going in shortly 2BR OV MOC EOY for 8k, we will see how that goes.  As mentioned above, JiminNC had one pass last year at 8k and CDD had one recently pass at $8,750 so we will see.



We have a purchase going presently for a 2 bd/2ba at Marriott Timber Lodge EOY Premium Summer for $4,000.  I was nervous that Marriott would exercise their ROFR, but in checking the history of ROFR Experiences, it looks like Marriott usually waives on EOY purchases.  Hopefully, this is the correct forum for this question.  Does anyone have input on this?  Thank you


----------



## Shaun

toppats said:


> We have a purchase going presently for a 2 bd/2ba at Marriott Timber Lodge EOY Premium Summer for $4,000.  I was nervous that Marriott would exercise their ROFR, but in checking the history of ROFR Experiences, it looks like Marriott usually waives on EOY purchases.  Hopefully, this is the correct forum for this question.  Does anyone have input on this?  Thank you


From what I've seen it seems like they let a lot of the EOY go, they are more aggressive on the annual from my experience of trying to buy some in the last few months. I don't have any experience with the Timer Lodge though, I've only bought Maui Ocean Club.  You'll find out soon enough on the ROFR, good luck!


----------



## toppats

toppats said:


> We have a purchase going presently for a 2 bd/2ba at Marriott Timber Lodge EOY Premium Summer for $4,000.  I was nervous that Marriott would exercise their ROFR, but in checking the history of ROFR Experiences, it looks like Marriott usually waives on EOY purchases.  Hopefully, this is the correct forum for this question.  Does anyone have input on this?  Thank you


Also:  We currently have legacy week at Marriott Maui Ocean Club and have had for 15 years. Does anyone know if this affects Marriott's ROFD decision to waive or not?


----------



## TXTortoise

toppats said:


> Also:  We currently have legacy week at Marriott Maui Ocean Club and have had for 15 years. Does anyone know if this affects Marriott's ROFD decision to waive or not?



There's been nothing to suggest that it's anymore than a simple value calculation on their part, albeit inconsistent from our point of view.


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## csodjd

Just got word today that my EOY oceanfront 2-BR in the old buildings at MOC just passed ROFR at $9,500. Thanks Shaun for the lead and direction. I had three agents tell me they had nothing. I asked one to look for me for ocean view about $8k, or ocean front for about $10k, and he basically said, no chance, nothing like that is ever going to go that low.


----------



## Shaun

csodjd said:


> Just got word today that my EOY oceanfront 2-BR in the old buildings at MOC just passed ROFR at $9,500. Thanks Shaun for the lead and direction. I had three agents tell me they had nothing. I asked one to look for me for ocean view about $8k, or ocean front for about $10k, and he basically said, no chance, nothing like that is ever going to go that low.


That is so great, I'm so happy for you. And, it is my pleasure. You're very welcome.


----------



## csodjd

Shaun said:


> That is so great, I'm so happy for you. And, it is my pleasure. You're very welcome.


And, for good measure, the seller was willing and able to make me a reservation for Memorial weekend/week in 2020, which is particularly helpful since my step-daughter is getting married in Maui that weekend!


----------



## JIMinNC

csodjd said:


> Just got word today that my EOY oceanfront 2-BR in the old buildings at MOC just passed ROFR at $9,500. Thanks Shaun for the lead and direction. I had three agents tell me they had nothing. I asked one to look for me for ocean view about $8k, or ocean front for about $10k, and he basically said, no chance, nothing like that is ever going to go that low.



That's a great price for OF. Congrats!

Counting down the days until our return to MOC in February, although this will be a points stay since our owned week is EOY-Odd.


----------



## Wahoo

Marriott is exercising its right of first refusal on an Ocean Pointe 2 bedroom, Oceanside unit I am selling.  The contract price is $8,000.  I submitted the ROFR waiver request by email on Friday, and received their decision today.  

I've added this to rofr.net.


----------



## Hobee

I had a Mountainside 2 bedroom platinum pass at 15k this week and added it to ROFR.net.  Marriott returned their decision in 1 week.


----------



## pianodinosaur

I had ROFR waived on a 2bedroom platinum season unit at Marriott’s Legends Edge in July 2019.  Purchase price = $1.00.


----------



## sb2313

Just had rofr fail on an eoy even platinum legends edge for $1


pianodinosaur said:


> I had ROFR waived on a 2bedroom platinum season unit at Marriott’s Legends Edge in July 2019.  Purchase price = $1.00.


----------



## Saintsfanfl

Even with the "special assessment" current maintenance fee LE still has ok value with the Florida Club option. I am sure they are considering this when they exercise ROFR on an LE unit. It has tons of flexibility.


----------



## ajlm33

pianodinosaur said:


> I had ROFR waived on a 2bedroom platinum season unit at Marriott’s Legends Edge in July 2019.  Purchase price = $1.00.




Interesting that Marriott would waive ROFR on the LE unit (but also great for you) for the $1.00 purchase price. I sold directly to Marriott my 2BR platinum LE unit in late 2018 for $8,750 pre-commission which then they had already resold (per my paperwork from them) as part of a hybrid bundle to another buyer. I was very fortunate to get that price from them.


----------



## marmite

ROFR failed for a 2BD Annual Red season at Marriott Desert Springs Villas II for $1550.  Have added it to the database.  I got notification very quickly in just over a week. Try, try again.


----------



## Calba205

Looks like I’m buying my first TS!   Marriott just waives their ROFR in just 2 days for a 2bd platinum at Marriott Grande Vista for $2,500.   I’ll add it to ROFR.net tonight.


----------



## mike53

I recently won (?I was the only bidder) Harbour Lakes 2BRGold, $35. ROFR waived.


----------



## jmhpsu93

Calba205 said:


> Looks like I’m buying my first TS!   Marriott just waives their ROFR in just 2 days for a 2bd platinum at Marriott Grande Vista for $2,500.   I’ll add it to ROFR.net tonight.



Nice - that's a great trader.  We've also stayed there during Easter week and New Year's week (both platinum) and it was a great place to stay.


----------



## Jsmooth969

JIMinNC said:


> Most of the information we've heard here on TUG from more trustworthy sources (i.e. - not coming from a sales person's mouth) is that the weeks Marriott acquires through ROFR go directly into the MVC Trust to provide cheaply-acquired points to sell (cheaper than building new resorts), and are not resold (possible exceptions are Aruba, St Kitts, and Europe weeks, since those can't be put in the Trust, and thus must be resold). Every bundle I've been offered or heard of others being offered are true resale weeks where Marriott is operating as the broker between buyer and seller. The one bundle we bought  was such a transaction, and the transaction was between us and a Seller from Ohio, with Marriott as the broker.
> 
> If you think about it from a business standpoint, if Marriott can acquire a week via ROFR for a price that equates to $1-$3 per point for the point value of that week, and then can sell those points for $11-$14 per point, they can make a heck of a lot more money than selling that as a week. Using your $10,900 Platinum 2BR Grande Vista as an example, that week is worth 2775 points. If they can exercise ROFR at, let's say, $1000 to $3000 (prices that have failed ROFR on rofr.net), their cost for those 2775 points would be around $1 per point or less. But they can resell them for a discounted price of around $11-$12 per point, or $30,000 to $33,000. So, they can earn three times the revenue they would earn by reselling the reacquired week for $10,900.


I am in contract for the same exact offer


----------



## Shaun

I just closed on my purchase of a Marriott Maui Ocean Club (original towers) 2BR OV EOY for $8,000 plus closing costs.  I'll be entering into ROFR.net shortly.


----------



## mauitraveler

Congrats and enjoy your new ownership!  CJ


----------



## SteelerGal

MVC exercised ROFR on Shadow Ridge Platinum for $2550.00


----------



## michael49

MVC has exercised their ROFR on a 2 bedroom, every other year odd, Ko Olina Mountain View. Purchase price was $4,000. I'll add this to ROFR.net in a few minutes. C'est la vie!


----------



## SteelerGal

Waiting to see if we pass ROFR on Desert Springs II Platinum.  Hopefully will have an answer in the next week.  Our last denial took a couple of days.


----------



## SteelerGal

MVC exercised ROFR on Marriott Desert Springs II annual red season.  Added to site.


----------



## qlaval

ROFR waived last week for a 1BR OF annual Aruba Ocean Club Gold at $3,500 (with FYU in 2021...)
Last may MVC exercised ROFR for the exact same purchase at $4,000.00 (with FYU in 2020)


----------



## capjak

ROFR waived on Destination points at $2.75 plus $3 marriott fees per point last week.


----------



## MGOGO

I have an annual Week 50 at Harbour Point at Shelter Cove thinking it is a larger 2Br/2Ba unit ..did this week ever go Red? Contemplating turning it in .. like some aspects of Timeshare .. but then again.. Can anyone offer me any creative ideas?? 

I also own EOY at Maui Schooner and was thinking possibly trying to find another EOY ?? What are some of your thoughts ??   Thanks !!


----------



## Dean

MGOGO said:


> I have an annual Week 50 at Harbour Point at Shelter Cove thinking it is a larger 2Br/2Ba unit ..did this week ever go Red? Contemplating turning it in .. like some aspects of Timeshare .. but then again.. Can anyone offer me any creative ideas??
> 
> I also own EOY at Maui Schooner and was thinking possibly trying to find another EOY ?? What are some of your thoughts ??   Thanks !!


I'm not sure about red but in II, week 50 is as low as you can get.  IMO the week is not worth the fees.  If you can get them to take it off your hands without out of pocket, you're doing well.  I can't speak to the Maui Schooner, the HI board might be a better location for that question.  You can certainly look at various sites including redweek & ebay plus TUG classifieds.


----------



## MOXJO7282

Yes on getting rid of the HP week 50. If you can't and are stuck with it the best approach would be to try to trade it every year for another Marriott on HHI. You could most likely trade back into HP for a week 38-45 which would be a nice vacation time, maybe even into a late fall GO.


----------



## MGOGO

Thanks folks .. I appreciate your honest perspective .. we have mostly traded it for the last 20 years .. Liked Cypress Harbour and Newport Villas .. saw some people offer that getting a unit in possibly Marriott Chateau that is 3Br may offer more flexibility and use the unit as a lockoff + 2 Br .. not certain if II will allow that to occur if I bank it.. Anyone know .. we are in our late 50's so I am thinking we may still like to use the timeshare system, just something that we might be inclined to use if trades aren't available .. I was pleasantly surprised at the renovations I was seeing on line and thought that the unit might be worth something as it appears the property is looking more appealing.


----------



## MOXJO7282

MGOGO said:


> Thanks folks .. I appreciate your honest perspective .. we have mostly traded it for the last 20 years .. Liked Cypress Harbour and Newport Villas .. saw some people offer that getting a unit in possibly Marriott Chateau that is 3Br may offer more flexibility and use the unit as a lockoff + 2 Br .. not certain if II will allow that to occur if I bank it.. Anyone know .. we are in our late 50's so I am thinking we may still like to use the timeshare system, just something that we might be inclined to use if trades aren't available .. I was pleasantly surprised at the renovations I was seeing on line and thought that the unit might be worth something as it appears the property is looking more appealing.


I own 2 great units at HP a week 32 and week 36 and have seen the renovations firsthand and thought they were well done also. There isn't much I can tell you about trading if you've been doing it for 20 years and you've mentioned some nice locations you've traded for it seems like it is serving you well but I don't think it's trade value has increased because of the renovations.


----------



## vmpt

MVC exercised ROFR for Grande Ocean gold season at $3500.


----------



## jmmoultn

MGOG, we deeded back a Sunset Pointe "Value Season". Renting a unit in that season was cheaper than our annual maintenance fees and we didn't expect to go to HHI annually. Process was no cost to us and went smoothly (and we had 20 years of good trades and occasional usage with the unit).

Jon


----------



## michael49

Marriott has exercised ROFR on Manor Club (original section), platinum season, 2 bedroom at $1,500.
I'll add this to ROFR.net in the next few minutes.


----------



## beachgirl79

It seems like the are taking everything back lately. ROFR.net is showing a lot of failure..  I have lost 4 contracts this year alone and am starting to feel like it's a waste of my time. Good luck to anyone out there who is successful


----------



## Steve Fatula

beachgirl79 said:


> It seems like the are taking everything back lately. ROFR.net is showing a lot of failure..  I have lost 4 contracts this year alone and am starting to feel like it's a waste of my time. Good luck to anyone out there who is successful



You're doing a good deed by helping someone sell their week at least.


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## goaliedave

I did a sales presentation today and the manager said their rofr team has a $90M war chest and will only pass on those selling over rerail price.

Sent from my SM-A505G using Tapatalk


----------



## JIMinNC

goaliedave said:


> I did a sales presentation today and the manager said their rofr team has a $90M war chest and will only pass on those selling over rerail price.
> 
> Sent from my SM-A505G using Tapatalk



Total BS. 

The $90M may or may not be right, but passing only on those over retail price is total BS. In their investor presentations - which are legally required to be factual - Marriott Vacations Worldwide has explained they have a target mix of new versus repurchased inventory and total inventory targets that they manage too. As ROFR opportunities are presented, they likely evaluate each one based on their need for repurchase inventory to meet their total inventory availability and their inventory mix goals.


----------



## TXTortoise

I always hate buying early in the year, as my assumption is they have more money to spend.  I was looking at Maui Napili/Lahaina 3BR OF weeks and the last one reported in ROFR failed at $52K in Feb, 2019.  A Week 48, right after Thanksgiving.

Pure points purchases continue to clear in the $3-$/Point range.

$54K for that unit is $5.09/Point..so it was the week they wanted, not the 'cheap' price.

Interestingly, 2BR OF weeks seem to be safe at $32K, $4.28/Point, 

Has anyone heard of any other Maui Lahaina/Napili 3BR sale ROFR data points?

I guess the big question is how high will they go for a prime, rare fixed week.


----------



## JIMinNC

TXTortoise said:


> I always hate buying early in the year, as my assumption is they have more money to spend.  I was looking at Maui Napili/Lahaina 3BR OF weeks and the last one reported in ROFR failed at $52K in Feb, 2019.  A Week 48, right after Thanksgiving.
> 
> Pure points purchases continue to clear in the $3-$/Point range.
> 
> $54K for that unit is $5.09/Point..so it was the week they wanted, not the 'cheap' price.
> 
> Interestingly, 2BR OF weeks seem to be safe at $32K, $4.28/Point,
> 
> Has anyone heard of any other Maui Lahaina/Napili 3BR sale ROFR data points?
> 
> I guess the big question is how high will they go for a prime, rare fixed week.



I suspect they do have an annual budget number for ROFR, but I suspect there are other factors related to their target inventory levels that drive how aggressive they are with ROFR at any point in time.

During their October Investor day presentation they made a couple of relevant points:

They try to match their inventory spend with their sales pace. Over the four years 2016-2019, they averaged $170 million per year cost of inventory sold and they averaged $168 million in inventory investment over the same period.
Their target is 33% of their total inventory spend from low-cost repurchases and 67% from new development.
They want 1.5 to 2 years of completed unsold inventory in the Trust to support consistent sales growth.
My suspicion is if sales grow more than expected and their available inventory starts to drop toward the lower end of their target range, they would tend to get more aggressive with ROFR at higher price points, and conversely, if sales slow a bit or a lot of development inventory comes on line and the inventory starts to grow, they might tend to scale back their ROFR activities to stay within their target range.

As far as why they exercised ROFR at a fairly high price for that 3BR OF at Maui Lahaina/Napili, consider that week is worth 10,225 points and has a maintenance fee cost of only $0.34/point. So, that one helps drives down the average maintenance fee cost for the Trust and since MVC has to cover the maintenance fees for unsold Trust points, the carrying cost for those re-acquired points is less, so maybe they are willing to pay a bit more for that. It is also desirable inventory for the DP system. The 2BR OF that seems safe to pass at $32K has a mf/point of $0.39/point, so since that one is slightly less cost efficient, maybe they are more willing to let those go at a slightly lower price. Just speculation.


----------



## TXTortoise

Thanks Jim, I'm still reaching out to brokers to see if any MOC 3BRs have passed ROFR and the price point.  Obviously a low volume, but I remember a few summer and fall units on Redweek being sold. I just don't track them as closely as winter.  We'll see...


----------



## mkahanek

Folks,  I am curious on the ROFR process.  If someone were to place their unit for sell.  Someone accepted and then Marriott exercised their ROFR could you pull your unit at that point or does Marriott only exercise at a point in the process where you can't stop the transaction?


----------



## suzannesimon

mkahanek said:


> Folks,  I am curious on the ROFR process.  If someone were to place their unit for sell.  Someone accepted and then Marriott exercised their ROFR could you pull your unit at that point or does Marriott only exercise at a point in the process where you can't stop the transaction?


Why would you want to pull it?  They will give you the same sale price as the contract.


----------



## TXTortoise

If allowed, Buyer could offer more and resubmit until it passes. That way both parties benefit.


----------



## dioxide45

mkahanek said:


> Folks,  I am curious on the ROFR process.  If someone were to place their unit for sell.  Someone accepted and then Marriott exercised their ROFR could you pull your unit at that point or does Marriott only exercise at a point in the process where you can't stop the transaction?


Marriott simply takes over as the buyer on the contract you have with the original buyer. It would kind of be like backing out of a real estate contract or any other contract. Would Marriott force you to sell or sue? Probably not. But you are still not fulfilling the contract you signed with the buyer (who is now marriott after ROFR).


----------



## Pathways

mkahanek said:


> Folks,  I am curious on the ROFR process.  If someone were to place their unit for sell.  Someone accepted and then Marriott exercised their ROFR could you pull your unit at that point or does Marriott only exercise at a point in the process where you can't stop the transaction?



Sellers back out of contracts all the time.  I have have 3 or 4 sellers back out.  

I had a broker tell me they pull the sale, raise the price by 1k, and re-submit. I don't know if they were being truthful.


----------



## vacationtime1

Marriott just ROFR'd our Kauai Beach Club 1bd oceanfront annual for $8,500. 

The signed document came to me directly from Marriott (using the email address attached to our Marriott ownerships and which is unknown to the others in this transaction).

I am stunned.


----------



## TXTortoise

Just one since 2019 on ROFR, but agree seemed like a big jump for them.

Not at home, but curious to calculate the $/Point value that is when I get a chance.


----------



## JIMinNC

TXTortoise said:


> Just one since 2019 on ROFR, but agree seemed like a big jump for them.
> 
> Not at home, but curious to calculate the $/Point value that is when I get a chance.



Worth 3375 points, so $2.52/point.


----------



## TXTortoise

Even more of a surprise at that point value.  Just reflects the vagaries of ROFR.  Maybe it's a Hawaii thing, some multiplier added.


----------



## BJRSanDiego

I wonder if the purchase agreement were to be written along the lines of:  Buyer agrees to pay "X" dollars for this timeshare and will transfer funds to seller within (e.g.) 10 days (or some other short period).  If buyer does not transfer funds within this time period, the sales price will (for example...) increase by $5,000.  This (I think) would be an enforceable contract and would put Marriott on their toes.  I've heard that when Marriott exercises ROFR, they take a longer period of time to transfer funds to the seller.  What would be interesting is Marriott notifies seller that they are exercising ROFR and take longer than the allowed time period.  That would either mean they would have to pay a bunch more ...or would default and back out.   

What do the legal-type people think of this?  I think that it might be enforceable.


----------



## TXTortoise

I discussed this with a closing agent that was aware of such a clause/addendum that was written to time box Marriott's closing/funding window.  They exercised ROFR and exceeded the funding limit.  In that case the buyer did not pursue enforcement of the addendum and the exercised ROFR went through.  I suppose the value of the deal influences how hard a buyer is willing to pursue the letter of the contract.


----------



## TXTortoise

What I'd like to see in approach tried where, for example, the resale market price of a week is $16k, ROFR is expected to be $15K-$17K, but the selling price is $20K, with an addendum that if the week is accepted by Marriott, the buyer gets a $4K finders fee/rebate from the buyer.  That way a seller could try and buy slightly above expected ROFR and if the week is taken both the seller and buyer benefit.

In many cases, the seller just needs someone to get a contract in front of Marriott, they don't care who actually gets to buy it.


----------



## TXTortoise

Does anyone have a week going to ROFR?  Just curious if we'll see MVCI holding their cash.


----------



## CourtShorr

TXTortoise said:


> Does anyone have a week going to ROFR?  Just curious if we'll see MVCI holding their cash.


We went to ROFR Last Wednesday 3/11.  Platimum 2BR NCV.   Hoping they are holding cash and have high inventory from low sales.


----------



## TXTortoise

Hear


CourtShorr said:


> We went to ROFR Last Wednesday 3/11.  Platimum 2BR NCV.   Hoping they are holding cash and have high inventory from low sales.


Any response yet?


----------



## TXTortoise

Just heard that a summer Marriott Maui Ocean Club week, 3BR OF, just cleared ROFR at $51,750, call it $52K.  Marriott waived ROFR.


----------



## dioxide45

TXTortoise said:


> Just heard that a summer Marriott Maui Ocean Club week, 3BR OF, just cleared ROFR at $51,750, call it $52K.  Marriott waived ROFR.


Wonder if this was an offer put in before everything blew up? Not sure I would be sinking $50K in to anything in the current environment.


----------



## TXTortoise

dioxide45 said:


> Wonder if this was an offer put in before everything blew up? Not sure I would be sinking $50K in to anything in the current environment.



Yes, it definitely was. Closing agent had it queued last week and delays in the ROFR office had it not getting reviewed until today.  I expect that will be a $35K week shortly, with even fewer buyers, similar to 2009+.


----------



## GregT

TXTortoise said:


> Yes, it definitely was. Closing agent had it queued last week and delays in the ROFR office had it not getting reviewed until today.  I expect that will be a $35K week shortly, with even fewer buyers, similar to 2009+.



Yes, I agree with you -- I think ROFR will disappear for awhile and prices will settle.  Strange times -- stay safe TUGgers....

Best,

Greg


----------



## chuckie50

From today's Wall Street Journal
Marriott International Inc. plans to furlough thousands of corporate employees at its headquarters and other cities around the world, the company confirmed to The Wall Street Journal, continuing a massive shrinking of payroll this week.

I wonder what will be happening at MVC's ROFR department. Perhaps if one has cash now is the time to try to slip a good deal by them.


----------



## TheTimeTraveler

chuckie50 said:


> From today's Wall Street Journal
> Marriott International Inc. plans to furlough thousands of corporate employees at its headquarters and other cities around the world, the company confirmed to The Wall Street Journal, continuing a massive shrinking of payroll this week.
> 
> I wonder what will be happening at MVC's ROFR department. Perhaps if one has cash now is the time to try to slip a good deal by them.





Fully agree!   Marriott needs to conserve every nickel in the Bank.   Now is not the time for them to be buying weeks.



.


----------



## dioxide45

chuckie50 said:


> From today's Wall Street Journal
> Marriott International Inc. plans to furlough thousands of corporate employees at its headquarters and other cities around the world, the company confirmed to The Wall Street Journal, continuing a massive shrinking of payroll this week.
> 
> I wonder what will be happening at MVC's ROFR department. Perhaps if one has cash now is the time to try to slip a good deal by them.


Marriott International and Marriott Vacation Club are separate companies, so people working in the ROFR department don't work for Marriott International. No word on furloughs by Marriott Vacations Worldwide. My guess though as to your final question, I suspect we will see a complete stoppage of them exercising ROFR.


----------



## CourtShorr

TXTortoise said:


> Hear
> 
> Any response yet?


Cleared ROFR Today!


----------



## JanT

We got in under the wire, I think.  About 10 days ago I contacted them about buying back our EOY Kauai week and they wanted to buy it back.  I'm also deeded back our EOY Silver SDO week.  Hopefully, it still goes through.  But, I'm pretty sure Marriott isn't going to be buying back a bunch of weeks now.



TheTimeTraveler said:


> Fully agree!   Marriott needs to conserve every nickel in the Bank.   Now is not the time for them to be buying weeks.
> 
> 
> 
> .


----------



## TXTortoise

As of today, I've been told the ROFR team said nothing has changed other than staffing issues, so may be a bit until we get new data points. A reduction in sales will also reduce reports.


----------



## mkahanek

suzannesimon said:


> Why would you want to pull it?  They will give you the same sale price as the contract.



The idea is a friend of mine selling to a family member at a fair price and not have Marriott take it.


----------



## Jsmooth969

I won a bid for a one bedroom at Aruba Ocean Club, gold season back in September for $1126.  It just closed recently and booked a reservation for August.


----------



## Marathoner

I tried to bid low on a Marriott prime week yesterday.  I was told by the agent that Marriott had taken weeks via ROFR in the past 3 weeks.  So, ROFR is still active for now, until they run out of funds.  Clearly, MVC is optimistic about their cash funding position at the moment.


----------



## echino

I would not believe it until I see the actual document from Marriott exercising ROFR.


----------



## michael49

Marathoner said:


> So, ROFR is still active for now, until they run out of funds. Clearly, MVC is optimistic about their cash funding position at the moment.



Maybe for some locations but not for all. Marriott has waived ROFR for our purchase of a 2 bedroom platinum week at Manor Club (not the Sequel). More importantly, our purchase price is $200 *less* than the price we offered in February and to which Marriott exercised ROFR!
So at least anecdotally, Marriott appears to be exercising ROFR somewhat sparingly.


----------



## Dean

echino said:


> I would not believe it until I see the actual document from Marriott exercising ROFR.





michael49 said:


> Maybe for some locations but not for all. Marriott has waived ROFR for our purchase of a 2 bedroom platinum week at Manor Club (not the Sequel). More importantly, our purchase price is $200 *less* than the price we offered in February and to which Marriott exercised ROFR!
> So at least anecdotally, Marriott appears to be exercising ROFR somewhat sparingly.


I suspect we'll see 2008-2010 type of approach (for far more than just timeshares) but it may take a few months to reach that point.  I wouldn't take a salesperson's word on the issue and even if accurate, it's a different time now that even a month ago.  If I wanted to purchase I'd do so even more selectively than before and only if I had a strong cash position.


----------



## Olienh

Marriott just waived ROFR on Maui Ocean Club (Molokai, Maui & Lanai) Annual 2BR Oceanview for $14,500.  Updating ROFR.net now.


----------



## GregT

Olienh said:


> Marriott just waived ROFR on Maui Ocean Club (Molokai, Maui & Lanai) Annual 2BR Oceanview for $14,500.  Updating ROFR.net now.


Wow -- that's a good price......thanks for posting that!!


----------



## jef3680

Marriott waved ROFR on a $1.00/point offer on April 10th, it was submitted on April 9th.  I updated ROFR.net


----------



## mjm1

jef3680 said:


> Marriott waved ROFR on a $1.00/point offer on April 10th, it was submitted on April 9th.  I updated ROFR.net



That’s amazing even in these times. That’s a great deal for you as the buyer. Congratulations!


----------



## Wahoo

jef3680 said:


> Marriott waved ROFR on a $1.00/point offer on April 10th, it was submitted on April 9th.  I updated ROFR.net


Nice pickup!  I am not entirely surprised, though -- in this economic downturn, it makes sense for Marriott to allow points purchases to pass through.  They get a swift infusion of cash with each of these transactions from their hefty required fees (initiation fee, owner education fee, etc).  While previously they might have exercised ROFR with the intent to sell the points for a much greater profit, at this particular moment I'm sure they are happy to take the guaranteed cash fees since retail points are probably not flying off the shelves right now.


----------



## Dean

mjm1 said:


> That’s amazing even in these times. That’s a great deal for you as the buyer. Congratulations!


I think we'll see lower before this is done.  I think free and seller paying closing is not out of the question thus just the junk fees.  And I wouldn't be surprised to see sellers paying a portion of those fees in some cases.


----------



## tmhcars

Dean said:


> I think we'll see lower before this is done.  I think free and seller paying closing is not out of the question thus just the junk fees.  And I wouldn't be surprised to see sellers paying a portion of those fees in some cases.


Marriott waived ROFR on 2 platinum weeks at BeachPlace for $4,500 each.


----------



## jmhpsu93

Marriott waived ROFR for 1,000 DC points at $0.76/point with free 2020 usage and seller-paid closing costs.  Adding to ROFR.net.


----------



## GregT

jmhpsu93 said:


> Marriott waived ROFR for 1,000 DC points at $0.76/point with free 2020 usage and seller-paid closing costs.  Adding to ROFR.net.


Wow.....


----------



## qlaval

I think this confirm that Marriott isn't using any ROFR for the moment being.


----------



## jmhpsu93

GregT said:


> Wow.....


Yeah - if I didn't want to commit to more MFs I'd be all over this at a much higher scale right now.


----------



## qlaval

Made an offer yesterday on Redweek for a week, offer already accepted and signed today...
I have a good feeling regarding the ROFR...


----------



## capjak

What resort?


----------



## qlaval

capjak said:


> What resort?


Aruba Ocean Club


----------



## DaveGerm

MOC - 1bd every year OF $6500 with 2020(with MF to be paid) use waived by Marriott!!


----------



## TXTortoise

DaveGerm said:


> MOC - 1bd every year OF $6500 with 2020(with MF to be paid) use waived by Marriott!!



Excellent. Was that direct with seller or broker involved?


----------



## DaveGerm

TXTortoise said:


> Excellent. Was that direct with seller or broker involved?



Redweek broker


----------



## qlaval

DaveGerm said:


> MOC - 1bd every year OF $6500 with 2020(with MF to be paid) use waived by Marriott!!


Congrats Dave!
Considering that an Oceanview in February was bought back by Marriott at $9,000...
May I ask the date when the ROFR was submitted?


----------



## DaveGerm

qlaval said:


> Congrats Dave!
> Considering that an Oceanview in February was bought back by Marriott at $9,000...
> May I ask the date when the ROFR was submitted?


Closing company sent it to Marriott after Apr 17 and they replied on May 5th.


----------



## qlaval

Aruba Ocean Club Gold, 1BR Oceanfront $3,000, Marriott waived ROFR today. (with First Year Usage only for 2021...)


----------



## Wahoo

Just received notice that Marriott waived ROFR on my Ocean Pointe oceanfront 2BR platinum purchase at $9,000.  I'm happy with the purchase price, especially since Marriott exercised its ROFR less than a year ago when I was selling a 2BR ocean_side _unit for about the same price.  I effectively "traded up" view categories for free.  The ROFR landscape has definitely changed compared to pre-Covid.

The waiver request was just submitted on Monday, so 4-day turnaround time.

Will add to ROFR.net shortly.


----------



## CDD

Marriott just waived a MOC - 1 bd OV bi-annual for $2600!


----------



## TXTortoise

CDD said:


> Marriott just waived a MOC - 1 bd OV bi-annual for $2600!



 Don't forget to add to ROFR.net


----------



## qlaval

Just notice 2 ROFR activities by Marriott...?

On June 18 and on the 22th.
One at SurfWatch for $16,100.00 and one at Ocean Pointe at Palm Beach Shores for $21,850.00.
Strange as I thought they weren't buying anything?....


----------



## samara64

For some reason, I do not feel these are legit.


----------



## GregT

qlaval said:


> Just notice 2 ROFR activities by Marriott...?
> 
> On June 18 and on the 22th.
> One at SurfWatch for $21,850.00 and one at Ocean Pointe at Palm Beach Shores for $21,850.00.
> Strange as I thought they weren't buying anything?....


I think that's really strange -- those seem much too high for a ROFR exercise.

Best,

Greg


----------



## Fasttr

GregT said:


> I think that's really strange -- those seem much too high for a ROFR exercise.
> 
> Best,
> 
> Greg


The Surfwatch price mentioned above is not as reported on ROFR.net, but I agree, seem high anyhow.  One of them was reported by East Clintwood if that does anything to your smell test meter.


----------



## dioxide45

Is some cleanup necessary on ROFR.net?


----------



## Shaun

[Post removed.  Ads not permitted in public posts to discusion forums. For instructions on sending private messages, see https://tugbbs.com/forums/threads/how-to-send-a-private-message-to-another-tugbbs-user.259811/]


----------



## 6scoops

Early July, Two Ocean Front, Gold season, units at MVO, $2,000.00 each, did not pass FROR....:-(


----------



## TXTortoise

6scoops said:


> Early July, Two Ocean Front, Gold season, units at MVO, $2,000.00 each, did not pass FROR....:-(



Just out of curiosity, did you get a copy of Marriott's ROFR document showing they exercised?


----------



## MOXJO7282

I recently had a fixed week MOC Napili towers 9th floor week 27 pass at $30k.  I passed on the exact same in a 3BDRM that had passed ROFR at $53k pre Covid.  I was torn to wait and see what the MOC resale market would do thinking there might be a lot of units to hit the market but so far I really haven't seen that but maybe it will still happen.  At the end of the day I didn't want to pass on a great unit at what would be a very good price in the normal world so we'll see what the future holds for resale units as a whole and high end units like MOC.


----------



## TXTortoise

Same here, as far as Hawaii goes, I've seen little movement in either sales or new listings on Redweek and broker sites.

My comment about seeing the document was due to some back channel discussions that suggested some brokers where using that as an excuse to void a deal, and then trying to re-market at a higher price.  An exception I'm sure, but first ROFR reported here and from my contacts in the last few months.   Maybe it really was so good, they took it.  Didn't cost MVCI much, vs a $30-50K Hawaii week.


----------



## Marathoner

If the global financial crisis a decade ago is an indication, I think the firesales start 2-3 years after the initial downturn.  Real estate and timeshare prices lag the real economy from my experience


----------



## 6scoops

TXTortoise said:


> Just out of curiosity, did you get a copy of Marriott's ROFR document showing they exercised?


No, I did not, should I have gotten that?  This was purchased through redweek full service listing.


----------



## TXTortoise

6scoops said:


> No, I did not, should I have gotten that?  This was purchased through redweek full service listing.


If they declined to sell due to ROFR, at a time when we know MVCI is not exercising, I’d probably ask.


----------



## 6scoops

TXTortoise said:


> If they declined to sell due to ROFR, at a time when we know MVCI is not exercising, I’d probably ask.


Okay, I asked to see them.  Sure enough Marriott wanted these two units back.  I knew it was way to low of a price, maybe I should of paid full ask, which was still very low price, so I'm not sure it would of passed.  Hard to balance a great deal and still pass ROFR  :-(  Marriott made out like a bandit on this deal.


----------



## TXTortoise

6scoops said:


> Okay, I asked to see them.  Sure enough Marriott wanted these two units back.  I knew it was way to low of a price, maybe I should of paid full ask, which was still very low price, so I'm not sure it would of passed.  Hard to balance a great deal and still pass ROFR  :-(  Marriott made out like a bandit on this deal.



Be sure and enter it on ROFR.net.   We know the ROFR office is open, but no real sense of how much they'll spend...other than at least $2000. ;-). Really surprised they took it.


----------



## 5infam

Bummer that they exercised on you 6scoops!! I just signed an agreement to purchase a EOYO week at MOC today, going to ROFR tomorrow. Hoping to hear back soon and will update. Wish me luck!


----------



## driftdiver

We were ROFRed on 2500 pts for $4500.


----------



## TheTimeTraveler

driftdiver said:


> We were ROFRed on 2500 pts for $4500.





The question is when did this occur?



.


----------



## driftdiver

TheTimeTraveler said:


> The question is when did this occur?



We were ROFRed on 2500 pts for $4500.  Was submitted around 7/17/20-7/20/20.  Notified of ROFR by Redweek 7/24/20


----------



## TheTimeTraveler

I am not sure if this is an ongoing trend or not but it appears as if Marriott is now back to buying ROFR points again.  During the height of the Covid-19 they were allowing points to slip thru for as little as 76 cents per point.



.


----------



## 5infam

TheTimeTraveler said:


> I am not sure if this is an ongoing trend or not but it appears as if Marriott is now back to buying ROFR points again.  During the height of the Covid-19 they were allowing points to slip thru for as little as 76 cents per point.



Looks like points and weeks based on the previous post. Maybe what appears to be a no ROFR window has closed? Could be they are still buying under a certain dollar amount per resort/point, or this could be the return to normal. Received confirmation just now that the week I am trying to buy was submitted for ROFR and should get an answer this week. I guess the ROFR team is making decisions once a week, so we will see what happens.


----------



## Camcart

Is it possible for a non-owner to buy re-sale points to get into MVC, or is that limited to people that currently are owners and have points already?


----------



## jmhpsu93

Camcart said:


> Is it possible for a non-owner to buy re-sale points to get into MVC, or is that limited to people that currently are owners and have points already?


You can buy resale as a non-owner, pay the $3/point "enrollment" fee, and you'll be just like the rest of us.


----------



## Quadmaniac

Just a thought, but I would assume most selling points are getting out of Marriott, would there be any value in adding the new buyer to the existing account as co-owners and then remove the original owner to avoid the enrollment fee ?


----------



## JIMinNC

5infam said:


> Looks like points and weeks based on the previous post. Maybe what appears to be a no ROFR window has closed? Could be they are still buying under a certain dollar amount per resort/point, or this could be the return to normal. Received confirmation just now that the week I am trying to buy was submitted for ROFR and should get an answer this week. I guess the ROFR team is making decisions once a week, so we will see what happens.



Given that many of the resorts have reopened and so have many sales offices, it is possible they have restarted limited ROFR to keep the points inventory pipeline within their target range. I suspect sales are still depressed, so would not expect business as usual ROFR, but it is not surprising that they may be sticking their toes back into the ROFR waters. They announce second quarter earnings on Wednesday, so there may be some details offered in their 9am Thursday conference call with analysts.


----------



## 5infam

So just heard back from Marriott that they waived their ROFR on an every other year - odd years, 2 bedroom, Platinum season, Ocean Front, Napili towers at Maui Ocean Club. I was very worried with recent reports that ROFR was back in full force, but maybe the price is too high for them to buy it back. Who knows. We are not reimbursing for this years maintenance fees, but are paying all closing costs. Sales price is $10K even.

The transfer agent helping us out told us that the ROFR department is working 1 day a week, on Wednesdays. We submitted it yesterday morning, and the seller received the waiver letter via e mail today. Fastest ROFR process I have ever been a party to.

I also posted this on ROFR.net


----------



## TXTortoise

Awesome price, particularly considering the lowest 2BR OF annual in the old towers I'm aware of was $18K or a bit less, circa 2017; and that 2BR OF annuals have been locked at $30K until they stopped ROFR in April.


----------



## 5infam

TXTortoise said:


> Awesome price, particularly considering the lowest 2BR OF annual in the old towers I'm aware of was $18K or a bit less, circa 2017; and that 2BR OF annuals have been locked at $30K until they stopped ROFR in April.


Thank you and special thanks for the referral, Paul has been great so far! I figured that pre-COVID price would be about $14 or $15k or so for this, so we have enough equity so to speak to whether a bad economy drop and still retain value if we had to sell. But who knows what is coming next. A year from now, it may look like I overpaid. ‍


----------



## TXTortoise

5infam said:


> Thank you and special thanks for the referral, Paul has been great so far! I figured that pre-COVID price would be about $14 or $15k or so for this, so we have enough equity so to speak to whether a bad economy drop and still retain value if we had to sell. But who knows what is coming next. A year from now, it may look like I overpaid. ‍



Not likely...use it two times, or even rent it and you're golden.


----------



## NiteMaire

Marriott's Grand Chateau: 3BR EOYE, $2000, passed.  Submitted last week, waived 4 days later.  Entered info on rofr.net.


----------



## 6scoops

TXTortoise said:


> Be sure and enter it on ROFR.net.   We know the ROFR office is open, but no real sense of how much they'll spend...other than at least $2000. ;-). Really surprised they took it.


I'll add it by tomorrow.  I'm bummed, would love to get into an Ocean Front unit at Oceana Palms.  


5infam said:


> Bummer that they exercised on you 6scoops!! I just signed an agreement to purchase a EOYO week at MOC today, going to ROFR tomorrow. Hoping to hear back soon and will update. Wish me luck!


So glad you got it!!  Hoping to get to MOC next year, it looks amazing.  Congrats


----------



## RLS50

Marriott's Grande Ocean - GOLD Oceanfront - $4,950 total (with $100 closing included) - FAILED, as Marriott exercised ROFR


----------



## Fasttr

RLS50 said:


> Marriott's Grande Ocean - GOLD Oceanfront - $4,950 total (with $100 closing included) - FAILED, as Marriott exercised ROFR


Certainly sounds like MVC is re-engaging, especially at resorts where they want more inventory, and on deals like this where price is likely half of pre-Covid resale pricing.


----------



## Jandk2011

Marriott BeachPlace Gold EOY $26 (closing included) PASSED ROFR.  I will add to ROFR.com. It was submitted to Marriott on 7/30 and heard back today from the broker that it passed.


----------



## RLS50

Fasttr said:


> Certainly sounds like MVC is re-engaging, especially at resorts where they want more inventory, and on deals like this where price is likely half of pre-Covid resale pricing.


----------



## nycjimster

Manor Club platinum week failed.  $100 purchased price.   I was planning to use it for trading.


----------



## NapoleonDynamite

I bought two Ko Olina 2B Oceanview odd year units for $4,500 and $5,300.  Passed ROFR in early and late June.  Wondering how good of a deal did I get?


----------



## csalter2

NapoleonDynamite said:


> I bought two Ko Olina 2B Oceanview odd year units for $4,500 and $5,300.  Passed ROFR in early and late June.  Wondering how good of a deal did I get?



I think that’s good considering what people like me paid Marriott for them which was about $20,000 more.


----------



## rlewismail

We were ROFRed on 2500 pts for $2500 twice back to back July/August. Now under contract @ $1.50 a point. We'll see how it goes.


----------



## TXTortoise

NapoleonDynamite said:


> I bought two Ko Olina 2B Oceanview odd year units for $4,500 and $5,300.  Passed ROFR in early and late June.  Wondering how good of a deal did I get?



Put them on ROFR.net so easy to compare.


----------



## vacationtime1

rlewismail said:


> We were ROFRed on 2500 pts for $2500 twice back to back July/August. Now under contract @ $1.50 a point. We'll see how it goes.



Please keep us updated; it will be a significant data point.


----------



## jstoeber

Marriott exercised ROFR on Platinum 2 BR (Oceanside) at Ocean Pointe for $5900.


----------



## driftdiver

Second time was a charm.   Passed ROFR on 2,500 pts at $2.50/pt.  Submitted 8/24 Cleared 8/26 (Wednesday).   Headed to ROFR.net
I wonder if they have a weekly/monthly budget?


----------



## celosch

Marriott exercised ROFR on an annual, oceanfront platinum at Barony Beach for $8500.  Had a feeling that they would, but figured it was worth a shot.


----------



## starzim

celosch said:


> Marriott exercised ROFR on an annual, oceanfront platinum at Barony Beach for $8500.  Had a feeling that they would, but figured it was worth a shot.


Too bad how long did it take Marriott to respond? I have an Aruba OCean club in for thier review now and its beena feww weks

thanks


----------



## mjm1

MVC waived ROFR on a Platinum Ko Olina EOY Odd 2BR OV for $5,000. Seller paid all closing costs per my request. Net would likely be around $4,500. We are happy with the purchase as we already own a EOY Even unit there. I already added it to the database.

Edit to add- received waiver in less than one week.

Best regards.

Mike


----------



## TXTortoise

starzim said:


> Too bad how long did it take Marriott to respond? I have an Aruba OCean club in for thier review now and its beena feww weks
> 
> thanks


Find out from your broker when it was submitted.  I’ve never had it exceed two calendar weeks.  I don’t remember how much time Aruba allows.


----------



## BJRSanDiego

TXTortoise said:


> Put them on ROFR.net so easy to compare.


How long after the deed was filed and sent to Marriott did it take Marriott to put you into their system?


----------



## TXTortoise

BJRSanDiego said:


> How long after the deed was filed and sent to Marriott did it take Marriott to put you into their system?


 Now that's a whole different number...generally 4-8 weeks, though I haven't done one while they have reduced staffing due to Covid.


----------



## starzim

TXTortoise said:


> Find out from your broker when it was submitted.  I’ve never had it exceed two calendar weeks.  I don’t remember how much time Aruba allows.


Thanks!


----------



## starzim

Is there any systematic pattern or process Marriott follows to waive or exercise ROFR? After reviewing ROFR.net some of the same resorts, same size unit one priced higher ROFR was exercised and same exact unit priced lower was waived? Are some locations more likely to be exercised or waived? Just a bit confusing.
Thanks Steve


----------



## Dean

starzim said:


> Is there any systematic pattern or process Marriott follows to waive or exercise ROFR? After reviewing ROFR.net some of the same resorts, same size unit one priced higher ROFR was exercised and same exact unit priced lower was waived? Are some locations more likely to be exercised or waived? Just a bit confusing.
> Thanks Steve


I'm sure they have their plan but a large part of any effective ROFR plan is to keep you guessing as to the cutoff but there are other factors like available cash in the account they use and internal inventory needs.


----------



## ski_sierra

starzim said:


> Is there any systematic pattern or process Marriott follows to waive or exercise ROFR? After reviewing ROFR.net some of the same resorts, same size unit one priced higher ROFR was exercised and same exact unit priced lower was waived? Are some locations more likely to be exercised or waived? Just a bit confusing.
> Thanks Steve



By letting an occasional unit go at a lower price, Marriott makes buyers think that they can get away with a low price. So then buyers keep offering low prices to sellers and then Marriott swoops in and purchases at a low price. If MVC exercised ROFR on all low priced deals then eventually buyers will stop offering low price offers and the price of the weeks will increase. I don't think that helps Marriott. Eventually the week will be sold (maybe decades later) but they don't want to overpay. They also want some weeks in the secondary market as that gives them an opportunity to sell points.

Just an observation based on ROFR data based on my 3 attempts to buy MGC. I have no insider knowledge of why and when MVC exercises ROFR.


----------



## starzim

ski_sierra said:


> By letting an occasional unit go at a lower price, Marriott makes buyers think that they can get away with a low price. So then buyers keep offering low prices to sellers and then Marriott swoops in and purchases at a low price. If MVC exercised ROFR on all low priced deals then eventually buyers will stop offering low price offers and the price of the weeks will increase. I don't think that helps Marriott. Eventually the week will be sold (maybe decades later) but they don't want to overpay. They also want some weeks in the secondary market as that gives them an opportunity to sell points.
> 
> Just an observation based on ROFR data based on my 3 attempts to buy MGC. I have no insider knowledge of why and when MVC exercises ROFR.


Thanks good info


----------



## ahdah

I  just signed offer to purchase  a 3 bedroom garden view, platinum season at SurfWatch.  The offer was $10,000.  Just hoping it will pass ROFR.  Wondering how long it will take to hear from Marriott.  I have my fingers crossed. Willl post when I hear.


----------



## TXTortoise

ahdah said:


> I  just signed offer to purchase  a 3 bedroom garden view, platinum season at SurfWatch.  The offer was $10,000.  Just hoping it will pass ROFR.  Wondering how long it will take to hear from Marriott.  I have my fingers crossed. Willl post when I hear.



I sometimes think it depends as much on your broker as it does Marriott. I've had electronic filings clear ROFR the next day, others have a Wednesday batch process that cleared on Friday. Others have gone to the limit at two weeks.   Marriott ROFR staffing was an issue in May/June, but I assume since ROFR is active again, staffing is back up.


----------



## Howtch

rlewismail said:


> We were ROFRed on 2500 pts for $2500 twice back to back July/August. Now under contract @ $1.50 a point. We'll see how it goes.



Did you pass or fail?


----------



## ahdah

Sad news, Marriott exercised their ROFR at $10,000.  About a month ago the did not exercise their ROFR on a 2 bedroom, platinum at $3000.  ????

It was a 3 bedroom in garden, platinum.


----------



## TXTortoise

ahdah said:


> Sad news, Marriott exercised their ROFR at $10,000.  About a month ago the did not exercise their ROFR on a 2 bedroom, platinum at $3000.  ????
> 
> It was a 3 bedroom in garden, platinum.


I’m not sure about last month. But ROFR is back after being non-existent in May-Jun

interesting data point though. The uniqueness of a 3 BR might have influenced the ROFR.


----------



## rlewismail

Howtch said:


> Did you pass or fail?



Yes it passed! 2500 @ $1.50


----------



## ahdah

TXTortoise said:


> I’m not sure about last month. But ROFR is back after being non-existent in May-Jun
> 
> interesting data point though. The uniqueness of a 3 BR might have influenced the ROFR.


The two bedroom, platinum, passed on 6/11/2020, ocean vista, $3000.  I would say that was a wonderful buy.


----------



## starzim

1 bedroom Aruba Ocean Club ocean view passed on 6/10/2020, update ROFR.net


----------



## Howtch

Found out this morning that Marriott waived ROFR for my purchase at $2/pp.


----------



## jstoeber

Marriott just waived ROFR for platinum 2 BR oceanside annual usage week at Ocean Pointe -$6500.  
Will update on ROFR.net


----------



## CULox99

Marriott waived ROFR yesterday on our purchase for Grande Ocean 2 BR Oceanfront Platinum at $16,000.  Will add to ROFR.net.


----------



## shellbelle

Marriott just waived rofr on our NCV platinum week at $8000 including closing costs.


----------



## Hobee

MVC waived ROFR on a 2-bedroom Gold SurfWatch OceanVista for $3,668.


----------



## scootr5

Just learned that MVC has waived on our Platinum EOY Grande Vista 2 bedroom at $1350.


----------



## Howtch

Howtch said:


> Found out this morning that Marriott waived ROFR for my purchase at $2/pp.



It turns out there was a miscommunication.  There were actually 2 deeds involved in my transaction and both failed at $2/per point.


----------



## Vacation1

MVC waived their ROFR for Ocean Point EOYO Platinum Oceanside 2 Bedroom at $3000. We are very excited to secure this as we so enjoy Ocean Point.


----------



## wjarcher

Marriott exercised ROFR for MOC 1br ocean view annual at $2750 (too good to pass it), but waived EOY at $1750

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk


----------



## BJRSanDiego

wjarcher said:


> Marriott exercised ROFR for MOC 1br ocean view annual at $2750 (too good to pass it), but waived EOY at $1750
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk


To me, that seems like a great price on the EOY.  Congratulations.


----------



## wjarcher

BJRSanDiego said:


> To me, that seems like a great price on the EOY.  Congratulations.



Thanks.  Pretty happy about the "consolation prize".  The closing agent gave me the suggestion that Marriott was not exercising ROFR on anything, so I did not really consider the possibility of ROFR (otherwise, might have submitted a higher purchase price)


----------



## rthib

Howtch said:


> It turns out there was a miscommunication.  There were actually 2 deeds involved in my transaction and both failed at $2/per point.


Wouldn't those have really been $5/point


----------



## Wahoo

Marriott waived on my OceanWatch 2BR platinum oceanfront at $11,000.  
ROFR request submitted on Monday afternoon, Marriott's turnaround time <48 hours.  I'll add it to ROFR.net


----------



## CULox99

I have been tracking Grand Residence Quartershares and a 2BR/3BA until went under contract and passed ROFR today.  I am not the buyer as I am still working with MVC to find a good enrollment option property in Aruba, but wanted to pass along the sale (wish I was the buyer).   It cleared at $60k and brings 51k DC points on average annually.   With the $5k bonvoy enrollment fee and closing costs, this went for $1.28 acquisition per point.  Unreal value with $15,500 annual maintenance fees/taxes.


----------



## Fasttr

CULox99 said:


> I have been tracking Grand Residence Quartershares and a 2BR/3BA until went under contract and passed ROFR today.  I am not the buyer as I am still working with MVC to find a good enrollment option property in Aruba, but wanted to pass along the sale (wish I was the buyer).   It cleared at $60k and brings 51k DC points on average annually.   With the $5k bonvoy enrollment fee and closing costs, this went for $1.28 acquisition per point.  Unreal value with $15,500 annual maintenance fees/taxes.


Don't you also have to purchase 5,000 DC points as part of the enrollment.  That changes the up front costs substantially.  https://tugbbs.com/forums/threads/enrollment-offer-for-quarter-share-at-grand-residence.307409/


----------



## CULox99

You are correct, you need to buy 5k DC points or an Aruba/St. Kitts legacy week at 5k points DC conversion.   Either way, you have to pay roughly $50k to enroll the GRC.  I realize that changes up front costs when you put the two together, but still keeps it below $2 per acquisition point when you factor in the 10k bonus points they are giving on the enrollment purchase.


----------



## vacationtime1

CULox99 said:


> I have been tracking Grand Residence Quartershares and a 2BR/3BA until went under contract and passed ROFR today.  I am not the buyer as I am still working with MVC to find a good enrollment option property in Aruba, but wanted to pass along the sale (wish I was the buyer).   It cleared at $60k and brings 51k DC points on average annually.   With the $5k bonvoy enrollment fee and closing costs, this went for $1.28 acquisition per point.  Unreal value with $15,500 annual maintenance fees/taxes.



MVC continues to amaze me in its random use of ROFR.  How could it have possibly passed up a chance to purchase 51,000 DC points @ $1.28 and to then resell them for $7 --> $14  (hybrid package --> full retail)?  That's a 5x --> 10x mark-up -- a foregone mark-up of $291,720 --> $648,720 _on a single transaction_. Yet MVC exercises ROFR for a few hundred dollars of mark-up elsewhere.


----------



## TimeshareTraveller

@vacationtime1 - They passed it up because they are picking up the things that will be easily sold. I'm seeing a lot of huge point value or large grouped week purchases in several systems that are being dumped on the market now. The problem is finding a buyer willing to put out the amount of money needed to purchase a very expensive luxury car or (in some areas) a house for timeshare points. That's a very small pool of buyers.


----------



## TimeshareTraveller

Case in point, I stumbled on a Disney Vacation Club Grand Floridian guaranteed week 52 out in the wild somewhere (I have no idea where) for about $100K. Not very many people have the ability to buy a timeshare week for that cost.


----------



## vacationtime1

$100K is a lot to pay for any timeshare week, imho.

But 51,000 DC points with total maintenance fees of $15,500/year is not a timeshare week; it is a profit center (I don't want to call it a business).  DC points can be rented for approx $0.64/point. That's $32,640 of receipts, or a profit of about $17K/yr.  That's a rate of return that MVC should want to internalize.


----------



## csalter2

vacationtime1 said:


> $100K is a lot to pay for any timeshare week, imho.
> 
> But 51,000 DC points with total maintenance fees of $15,500/year is not a timeshare week; it is a profit center (I don't want to call it a business).  DC points can be rented for approx $0.64/point. That's $32,640 of receipts, or a profit of about $17K/yr.  That's a rate of return that MVC should want to internalize.



That’s with an assumption that people can rent that many points.  Renting is not always easy. There are many people who are stuck trying to rent their points or weeks. It’s not automatic, not even in desirable locations with oceanfront views.


----------



## dioxide45

csalter2 said:


> That’s with an assumption that people can rent that many points.  Renting is not always easy. There are many people who are stuck trying to rent their points or weeks. It’s not automatic, not even in desirable locations with oceanfront views.


I think the issue is that the market for points rentals is pretty small. Injecting that many points into the system and getting them all rented every year may not be easy. I suspect it would be hard to rent them all for $0.64 a point.


----------



## echino

I had thought about this exact thing to set it up as a business and economics don't work if you use realistic assumptions.


----------



## Howtch

Just learned that Marriott exercised my second proposed purchase at $2.25 a point.  I'm going to continue to be patient and climb the ladder incrementally.


----------



## JIMinNC

vacationtime1 said:


> MVC continues to amaze me in its random use of ROFR.  How could it have possibly passed up a chance to purchase 51,000 DC points @ $1.28 and to then resell them for $7 --> $14  (hybrid package --> full retail)?  That's a 5x --> 10x mark-up -- a foregone mark-up of $291,720 --> $648,720 _on a single transaction_. Yet MVC exercises ROFR for a few hundred dollars of mark-up elsewhere.



Can they even put a Grand Residence Quartershare into the DC Trust? Maybe @dioxide45 can answer that since he researched the Trust filings a few years back. So, if they CAN'T or DON'T put Quartershares into the Trust, then exercising ROFR would mean they would have no option other than finding a buyer for the entire Quartershare. They would not be able to just add them to the Trust and resell the points at their standard prices.


----------



## Howtch

rthib said:


> Wouldn't those have really been $5/point



Yeah, you're right.  I'm setting the current day floor!


----------



## dioxide45

JIMinNC said:


> Can they even put a Grand Residence Quartershare into the DC Trust? Maybe @dioxide45 can answer that since he researched the Trust filings a few years back. So, if they CAN'T or DON'T put Quartershares into the Trust, then exercising ROFR would mean they would have no option other than finding a buyer for the entire Quartershare. They would not be able to just add them to the Trust and resell the points at their standard prices.


Yes, there are quarter shares in the DC trust.


----------



## NiteMaire

JIMinNC said:


> Can they even put a Grand Residence Quartershare into the DC Trust? Maybe @dioxide45 can answer that since he researched the Trust filings a few years back. So, if they CAN'T or DON'T put Quartershares into the Trust, then exercising ROFR would mean they would have no option other than finding a buyer for the entire Quartershare. They would not be able to just add them to the Trust and resell the points at their standard prices.


I'm fairly certain @frank808 posted about getting DC points for his.


----------



## JIMinNC

dioxide45 said:


> Yes, there are quarter shares in the DC trust.



Thanks for the clarification. I didn't know that. So, the question @vacationtime1 raised is indeed relevant as to why they would not exercise that at an effective $1.28/point but just exercised @Howtch at $2.25/point.


----------



## JIMinNC

NiteMaire said:


> I'm fairly certain @frank808 posted about getting DC points for his.



But @frank808 can't put his into the Trust. He has deeded quartershares that are *enrolled* in the DC program, so he gets an allocation of DC points, just like any other enrolled week owner, but his are elected/enrolled points not Trust points. @dioxide45 answered the question that MVC can and does put quartershares into the Trust, but those are all deeds that are owned or reacquired by MVC, not individual owners.


----------



## Fasttr

JIMinNC said:


> Thanks for the clarification. I didn't know that. So, the question @vacationtime1 raised is indeed relevant as to why they would not exercise that at an effective $1.28/point but just exercised @Howtch at $2.25/point.


I'm guessing they are happy with the sale of the 5000 DC points + the $5K cash to enroll the Qtr Share.


----------



## JIMinNC

Fasttr said:


> I'm guessing they are happy with the sale of the 5000 DC points + the $5K cash to enroll the Qtr Share.



Good point, but would they know from the ROFR submission if the buyer was actually planning to buy the points to enroll the quarter share?


----------



## csalter2

JIMinNC said:


> Good point, but would they know from the ROFR submission if the buyer was actually planning to buy the points to enroll the quarter share?



Sometimes. There was a thread about this a couple of years ago on this very same topic in which someone bought the quarter share resale and had an agreement to enroll it with the purchase of 5000 DC points. The salesman at least knew about it.


----------



## Howtch

Fasttr said:


> I'm guessing they are happy with the sale of the 5000 DC points + the $5K cash to enroll the Qtr Share.



While I'm not a conspiracy theorist, I also wonder if this punitive against me since I was under contract in late August to buy direct and rescinded.  If the resales people are talking to the sales people, this may be a "it's him" issue.


----------



## Howtch

Third time was the charm.  Just got word that I passed ROFR at $2.35 / point.


----------



## Mlvnsmly

Lakeshore Reserve annual platinum 2 bed deluxe $2900.  Failed.


----------



## Howiereed

Aruba Ocean Club - Annual platinum week 1 bedroom ocean view $6,000 passed


----------



## MVCOwner

Marriott Grande Vista 2 bedroom Platinum passed at $1200. signed Dec 23rd, notified it waived Jan 5th.


----------



## CULox99

Marriott Grand Residence 2BR/3BA Quartershare passed ROFR at $70,000.  Signed contract submitted to MVC on 12/28, notified it was waived and passed ROFR on 12/29.   Purchased as part of an enrollment package that will generate on average 51,331 points annually.   Have not decided on the enrollment purchase with MVC as offering a 5,000 DC points purchase that includes 12,500 bonus points at $51,500, they will enroll the MGR quartershare and my Grande Ocean Platinum 2BR OF that I recently purchased in December.   I'm waiting on something at Aruba Surf Club to open as I would prefer to enroll by purchasing a fixed week SC vs. buying DC points.


----------



## vol_90

CULox99 said:


> Marriott Grand Residence 2BR/3BA Quartershare passed ROFR at $70,000.  Signed contract submitted to MVC on 12/28, notified it was waived and passed ROFR on 12/29.   Purchased as part of an enrollment package that will generate on average 51,331 points annually.   Have not decided on the enrollment purchase with MVC as offering a 5,000 DC points purchase that includes 12,500 bonus points at $51,500, they will enroll the MGR quartershare and my Grande Ocean Platinum 2BR OF that I recently purchased in December.   I'm waiting on something at Aruba Surf Club to open as I would prefer to enroll by purchasing a fixed week SC vs. buying DC points.


Was the quarter share purchased for 2021 usage?  If so how will you use it until the enrollment?  Just curious.

Thanks!


----------



## CULox99

Current owner did not have enrolled with DC points.   They had exchanged 4 or 5 weeks with Interval and because of that we decided to defer remaining 2021 usage and not take usage until 2022.  Which is what I  preferred with Covid limitations until the summer at best.  Happy to help with any other questions regarding purchase process.   Took about 3-4 months to get really comfortable with the 51k points and find the right price and property.   Had some great help and advice from other MGR owners here on TUG.   Would never had done this or known about it without their support


----------



## frank808

@CULox99
Well congrats on your purchase. So you finally felt comfortable and bought a quartershare. What is the MF for the 2br/3bath this year? You know that the annual taxes are billed separately by El Dorado county?

At least you have about a year to get the quartershare enrolled. If not enrolled, you will have 13 weeks to use, rent or deposit to II. 

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


----------



## CULox99

It's the standard size room 2BR that sleeps 10 with the 2 single beds on both sides of fireplace.    Dont have my spreadsheet in front of me, but is just under $15k for MVC dues.   With CA taxes it is $15,500 per year.  We are definitely enrolling, just eating on MVC to get back to me next week with options.   I  do have a few questions i wanted to run by you, I'll private message you.  Thanks!


----------



## COSkier1

Congrats on the purchase!  At Aruba I was told the enrollment period ended in December and probably won’t spin up until this summer/fall.  What broker was the resale unit sold from?


----------



## CULox99

Thank you.  Aruba did end in mid December per my contact there, but was told he expected it back up shortly after new year.   He is back from vacation on Monday and I will know more then.   I GRC through Paradise Timeshare.  They are one of two approved resellers by MVC.   Unit never hit the market as they knew what I wanted and my price point and we locked up immediately.


----------



## shellbelle

Marriott waived on our latest NCV platinum week at $6800 (all in, including closing costs.)


----------



## frank808

Just added on 2 more weeks.

Willowridge 2br annual platinum $1500 including closing costs and Marriott fees.

Grand Chateau 2br annual platinum $2300 including closing costs and Marriott fees. Seller paid for title insurance from First American Title. Told them it was a waste of money because they bought the week directly from MVC. 


Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


----------



## Fasttr

frank808 said:


> Just added on 2 more weeks.
> 
> Willowridge 2br annual platinum $1500 including closing costs and Marriott fees.
> 
> Grand Chateau 2br annual platinum $2300 including closing costs and Marriott fees. Seller paid for title insurance from First American Title. Told them it was a waste of money because they bought the week directly from MVC.


Proving that what you already have is never enough.  ;-)


----------



## frank808

Thought I had enough but will be short a few weeks to fill in the year. Seems with electing points for my grand residence weeks, left me a just a little short.

Added to rofr.net
Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


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## elked12

Anyone have an idea if a 1 bedroom Aruba ocean club Gold week would pass for $1500?


----------



## starzim

try www.rofr.net you can search by property to see what has passed etc.


----------



## Dean

elked12 said:


> Anyone have an idea if a 1 bedroom Aruba ocean club Gold week would pass for $1500?


I suspect that's about the limit but it might pass depending on the other specifics.  I wouldn't chase ROFR, just get the best deal you can then see if it passes or doesn't.  Would an OC Gold work for you?  For Gold I prefer SC (even having to get a 2BR) due to the differences in the calendar with more Gold weeks unless it's an OF or Platinum unit.


----------



## Theiggy

Dean said:


> I suspect that's about the limit but it might pass depending on the other specifics. I wouldn't chase ROFR, just get the best deal you can then see if it passes or doesn't. Would an OC Gold work for you? For Gold I prefer SC (even having to get a 2BR) due to the differences in the calendar with more Gold weeks unless it's an OF or Platinum unit.



Yes and I just saw a garden view 2br ASC go for $1800 on Redweek. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## bendadin

Is Marriott ROFR like DVC as the longer you wait, the higher your chance is that they will be exercising their right?


----------



## frank808

Theiggy said:


> Yes and I just saw a garden view 2br ASC go for $1800 on Redweek.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Was it a gold week?

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


----------



## frank808

bendadin said:


> Is Marriott ROFR like DVC as the longer you wait, the higher your chance is that they will be exercising their right?


All my Marriott ROFR was pretty quick recently. I had 2 pass ROFR within a few days of it being submitted. 

I had a few taken years ago and those took 2+ weeks for an answer. During that time frame, I had identical weeks that passed ROFR that failed earlier the week before. The decision took about the same time frame as the ones they exercised ROFR a week or two earlier.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


----------



## elked12

Dean said:


> I suspect that's about the limit but it might pass depending on the other specifics.  I wouldn't chase ROFR, just get the best deal you can then see if it passes or doesn't.  Would an OC Gold work for you?  For Gold I prefer SC (even having to get a 2BR) due to the differences in the calendar with more Gold weeks unless it's an OF or Platinum unit.


Gold would work but platinum would be better of course especially with it getting you access to Christmas and New Years week Unlike the surf club. We own at surf club and just thinking of adding an OC because we like It there. $1500 just seemed like a nice price to get in there.


----------



## Dean

elked12 said:


> Gold would work but platinum would be better of course especially with it getting you access to Christmas and New Years week Unlike the surf club. We own at surf club and just thinking of adding an OC because we like It there. $1500 just seemed like a nice price to get in there.


If you keep your eyes open and put some time and effort in you can get an OC for a good price.  Certainly more than $1500 but the dues are the same.  If Platinum works better I'd either pay more or not buy since you can trade in fairly easily to Gold weeks with a trader cheaper up front and yearly.


----------



## TXTortoise

frank808 said:


> All my Marriott ROFR was pretty quick recently. I had 2 pass ROFR within a few days of it being submitted.
> 
> I had a few taken years ago and those took 2+ weeks for an answer. During that time frame, I had identical weeks that passed ROFR that failed earlier the week before. The decision took about the same time frame as the ones they exercised ROFR a week or two earlier.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk



My experience is it depends a lot on whose submitting and how.  I've had two come back within one day and the other two days. Both were electronic submissions by the broker and closing company, respectively.


----------



## Theiggy

frank808 said:


> Was it a gold week?
> 
> Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk



Yes gold Surf Club 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## stslc

I'm surprised how little action there has been on this thread lately.  We are under contract for some points through a Redweek listing.  Cheap.  Contract was just finalized today so I'll post details after we find out the results.


----------



## paxlin

stslc said:


> I'm surprised how little action there has been on this thread lately.  We are under contract for some points through a Redweek listing.  Cheap.  Contract was just finalized today so I'll post details after we find out the results.


I just had Marriott Timber Lodge week 7 that got taken by Marriott for $13k.  
Maybe people has just been looking at www.rofr.net?
Anyone here know what price for week 7 that has passed ROFR before for Marriott Timber Lodge?


----------



## sjlk

stslc said:


> I'm surprised how little action there has been on this thread lately.  We are under contract for some points through a Redweek listing.  Cheap.  Contract was just finalized today so I'll post details after we find out the results.


I just picked up a platinum week at Desert Springs Villas II for $500 on eBay. Passed ROFR.


----------



## michael49

sjlk said:


> I just picked up a platinum week at Desert Springs Villas II for $500 on eBay. Passed ROFR.


Be sure to post that outstanding purchase (my week cost $2,950 in 2017) on ROFR.net.


----------



## CULox99

Passed ROFR on Grande Vista 2BR platinum with Florida Club last week for $1,400.   Posting on ROFR.net.


----------



## sjlk

michael49 said:


> Be sure to post that outstanding purchase (my week cost $2,950 in 2017) on ROFR.net.


Done!


----------



## stslc

stslc said:


> I'm surprised how little action there has been on this thread lately.  We are under contract for some points through a Redweek listing.  Cheap.  Contract was just finalized today so I'll post details after we find out the results.


Marriott exercised ROFR on the 1500 Points at 1.33/pt plus closing and transfer fees.


----------



## Seaport104

Marriott exercised on 3BR Platinum Ocean pointe for $9,000


----------



## mjm1

MVC exercised their ROFR on 3,000 DC points at $3 per point. I was very surprised, but they must be in a buying mode right now. I will enter in the database once it closes.

Best regards.

Mike


----------



## jmhpsu93

mjm1 said:


> MVC exercised their ROFR on 3,000 DC points at $3 per point. I was very surprised, but they must be in a buying mode right now. I will enter in the database once it closes.
> 
> Best regards.
> 
> Mike


Wow.  It was occasionally possible to get that past them pre-pandemic.


----------



## OldPantry

Apropos of nothing.  My wife and I had an extended nightmare with Marriott.  We put our Newport Platinum week up for sale at a "sacrifice" price of $6000, hoping to be done with it once and for all (the yearly effort to snag an actual platinum week, ie summer, was draining).  We got an offer quickly, Marriott dragged its heels for six weeks, then exercised ROFR, then took another NINE months to complete the purchase.  I was threatening them, literally by name, with tortious interference (which it was, it was), before they finally sent the check.  What a bunch of slime bags!


----------



## TheTimeTraveler

OldPantry said:


> Apropos of nothing.  My wife and I had an extended nightmare with Marriott.  We put our Newport Platinum week up for sale at a "sacrifice" price of $6000, hoping to be done with it once and for all (the yearly effort to snag an actual platinum week, ie summer, was draining).  We got an offer quickly, Marriott dragged its heels for six weeks, then exercised ROFR, then took another NINE months to complete the purchase.  I was threatening them, literally by name, with tortious interference (which it was, it was), before they finally sent the check.  What a bunch of slime bags!




Actually, they have only 30 days to exercise their option of First Refusal, so by right your sale should have proceeded with the private party so I don't understand why they didn't let it pass at that point.......


.


----------



## mjm1

OldPantry said:


> Apropos of nothing.  My wife and I had an extended nightmare with Marriott.  We put our Newport Platinum week up for sale at a "sacrifice" price of $6000, hoping to be done with it once and for all (the yearly effort to snag an actual platinum week, ie summer, was draining).  We got an offer quickly, Marriott dragged its heels for six weeks, then exercised ROFR, then took another NINE months to complete the purchase.  I was threatening them, literally by name, with tortious interference (which it was, it was), before they finally sent the check.  What a bunch of slime bags!



Thanks for sharing your experience. They just exercised on buying our points, so I will follow up with them. We were told 30-45 days to close, but we shall see. 

Best regards.


----------



## dioxide45

TheTimeTraveler said:


> Actually, they have only 30 days to exercise their option of First Refusal, so by right your sale should have proceeded with the private party so I don't understand why they didn't let it pass at that point.......
> 
> 
> .


They have 30 days is only to provide notice that they are exercising their right, not 30 days to close the transaction. From the Grande Vista condo declaration.


----------



## TheTimeTraveler

dioxide45 said:


> They have 30 days is only to provide notice that they are exercising their right, not 30 days to close the transaction. From the Grande Vista condo declaration.
> View attachment 32633




Marriott didn't act on the ROFR for six weeks according to OldPantry posting.........



.


----------



## dioxide45

TheTimeTraveler said:


> Marriott didn't act on the ROFR for six weeks according to OldPantry posting.........
> 
> 
> 
> .


See it now. In most cases, I find situations related to the response on ROFR is more often fault of the closing company not sending the details of the contract to Marriott vs Marriott failing to reply. Or the closing company being slow to notify the owner.


----------



## BJRSanDiego

My own thoughts is that when the contract is written up, that it needs to state that "time is of the essence" and that the agreed upon price of the sale increases as time proceeds.  Say for instance...the buyer needs to provide funds and complete all of the necessary paperwork within 30 days of acceptance... and that any delays in providing the funds and complete the paperwork will result in a fee of $500 per week (or 10% a week, etc.).  Perhaps also add an "out" that is the buyer does not act in good faith and complete the delivery of funds and documentation within (say) 40 days, that the agreement is terminated, or that if the buyer agrees to $1000 non-refundable relinquishment if they do not provide the funds and documentation....  Well, you get the thought train.  I'm not a lawyer (but have successfully represented myself against a licensed attorney in front of a judge).  Perhaps someone with more experience than me can suggest some ways to motivate Marriott to move in a more time-conscious manner.


----------



## sjsharkie

BJRSanDiego said:


> My own thoughts is that when the contract is written up, that it needs to state that "time is of the essence" and that the agreed upon price of the sale increases as time proceeds.  Say for instance...the buyer needs to provide funds and complete all of the necessary paperwork within 30 days of acceptance... and that any delays in providing the funds and complete the paperwork will result in a fee of $500 per week (or 10% a week, etc.).  Perhaps also add an "out" that is the buyer does not act in good faith and complete the delivery of funds and documentation within (say) 40 days, that the agreement is terminated, or that if the buyer agrees to $1000 non-refundable relinquishment if they do not provide the funds and documentation....  Well, you get the thought train.  I'm not a lawyer (but have successfully represented myself against a licensed attorney in front of a judge).  Perhaps someone with more experience than me can suggest some ways to motivate Marriott to move in a more time-conscious manner.


I like the idea... you should try it and see if it works on your next transaction.

-ryan


----------



## BJRSanDiego

sjsharkie said:


> I like the idea... you should try it and see if it works on your next transaction.
> 
> -ryan


Ryan, I own a bunch of Palm Desert Marriotts.  Last September I bought a Shadow Ridge Platinum Deluxe with the idea that I would later dispose of one of my "white/gold" weeks.  So right now I have one too many timeshares.  Maybe when I dispose of the extra lower-season weeks, I'll do that.

I am hoping that others with greater legal knowledge than I do will opine and give me some additional suggestions that might work.  ROFR is one thing, but it is my opinion that Marriott needs to act in a timely fashion.


----------



## dioxide45

I know that ROFR is supposed to mean that Marriott simply takes over as the buyer of the existing contract, but as I understand it, they send out a new one when they exercise. Not sure how this is actually allowable under the provision of ROFR.


----------



## Dean

I have never seen anything about the requirement for closing under ROFR, only notification.  9 months is strange though, esp if no issues with dues being behind, divorce, bankruptcy or a trust involved.  Sometimes a closing requirement is written into the contract though.


----------



## 5finny

BJRSanDiego said:


> My own thoughts is that when the contract is written up, that it needs to state that "time is of the essence" and that the agreed upon price of the sale increases as time proceeds.  Say for instance...the buyer needs to provide funds and complete all of the necessary paperwork within 30 days of acceptance... and that any delays in providing the funds and complete the paperwork will result in a fee of $500 per week (or 10% a week, etc.).  Perhaps also add an "out" that is the buyer does not act in good faith and complete the delivery of funds and documentation within (say) 40 days, that the agreement is terminated, or that if the buyer agrees to $1000 non-refundable relinquishment if they do not provide the funds and documentation....  Well, you get the thought train.  I'm not a lawyer (but have successfully represented myself against a licensed attorney in front of a judge).  Perhaps someone with more experience than me can suggest some ways to motivate Marriott to move in a more time-conscious manner.


Maybe do it in reverse ?
Higher sales price with discount for prompt payment


----------



## BJRSanDiego

5finny said:


> Maybe do it in reverse ?
> Higher sales price with discount for prompt payment


Yes, I suppose that could work.

Marriott would have fun with that though - - say the sales price was $5K to pass ROFR and half off if paid in, say, 15 days.  I suspect that they would analyze based on the half price figure and still take whatever time they wanted or needed.  My wife used to manage an accounting department.  Several suppliers gave a discount if paid in 10 days.  They would take the discount and then pay at the standard 30 day period.  Apparently no one complained and it was a standard practice with that company.


----------



## sjsharkie

BJRSanDiego said:


> Yes, I suppose that could work.
> 
> Marriott would have fun with that though - - say the sales price was $5K to pass ROFR and half off if paid in, say, 15 days.  I suspect that they would analyze based on the half price figure and still take whatever time they wanted or needed.  My wife used to manage an accounting department.  Several suppliers gave a discount if paid in 10 days.  They would take the discount and then pay at the standard 30 day period.  Apparently no one complained and it was a standard practice with that company.


I agree.  I think you need to be specific as in your original example.  If you said 2/10 net 30 as terms, people just end up taking the discount anyway and paying somewhere around 30 days.

As Dioxide pointed out, Marriott replaces your contract with another set of terms (inserting non-disclosure, arbitration clauses, etc.).  Technically, I don't think this is legal, but I don't know what would happen if you pushed back on it.  I think if you make it more difficult by inserting an escalating price clause, it can only help your cause.  

I'm not a lawyer, but I do deal with a lot of vendor contracts in my job.  The question is not whether you can do it, but how you would enforce it if Marriott insisted on their own terms and timetable, ignoring the terms substituting as the buyer.  Would you go through the trouble of going to court to uphold the contract and force Marriott's hand?  In the meantime, the previous buyer has moved on, and the clock is ticking until the next set of maintenance fees are due...

-ryan


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## nygiants11991

Is there a chart to add what point purchased passed/failed ROFR? I just had two separate purchases that Marriott exercised their right.


----------



## dioxide45

nygiants11991 said:


> Is there a chart to add what point purchased passed/failed ROFR? I just had two separate purchases that Marriott exercised their right.


www.rofr.net


----------



## The Colorado Kid

Marriott Surfwatch Hilton Head Island 
Passed ROFR Feb 2021

2BR Silver Season
Oceanside
$1000 purchase price
Seller paying all closing/transfer fees
Seller paying 2021 MF 
First use 2021
MF $1,464 Annual


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## Mlvnsmly

Marriott exercised on a gifted DSVII White season EOY 2BR LO.


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## JanT

Wow....really surprised about that.



Mlvnsmly said:


> Marriott exercised on a gifted DSVII White season EOY 2BR LO.


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## altiste1

By way of reality check...

Marriott 2BR Grande Vista Platinum week
Failed ROFR 3/10/21
Purchase price $1
Buyer was to pay all closing costs and fees.

Took Marriott 2 days to exercise.

Posted this on rofr.net


----------



## dioxide45

altiste1 said:


> By way of reality check...
> 
> Marriott 2BR Grande Vista Platinum week
> Failed ROFR 3/10/21
> Purchase price $1
> Buyer was to pay all closing costs and fees.
> 
> Took Marriott 2 days to exercise.
> 
> Posted this on rofr.net


That isn't unexpected. What is unexpected is that a seller was willing to take $1 for it when they could have sold it for a couple thousand.


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## Mlvnsmly

Marriott exercised on 4000 AP points at 2.75 per point.  The broker says they were put through at 3.28 per point.


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## Beachspace

I don't have exact numbers but 'giving away' my 2 Bed Plat Marriott Harbour lake passed ROFR. It was $1 + Transfer fee + paying me back my $1500 in MF. So it was either listed as $1 or as $1576. either way, its thru and he'll get it in his name in about 3 -4 more weeks they said.


----------



## MrsKruse

Just got word that our Platinum Oceanside Week at Oceanwatch passed FROR for $8k.  Hoping to close in the next few weeks   Added it to the FROR website.


----------



## nygiants11991

Has anyone had experience with what is passing on points.  In August 2020 I got 4000 points at $2 per point.  I have tried since then to get more but every-time it has failed.


----------



## frank808

nygiants11991 said:


> Has anyone had experience with what is passing on points. In August 2020 I got 4000 points at $2 per point. I have tried since then to get more but every-time it has failed.


Increase offer to $2.50 a point. Have read some post that points passed at $3 each.

Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk


----------



## altiste1

Just curious if anyone has tried to get creative with the purchase price and the junk fee. For example, purchase agreement between buyer and seller says $4/point, which gets submitted to Marriott. Buyer and seller have a separate reimbursement agreement (which Marriott never sees and is not referenced in the purchase agreement) under which seller agrees to reimburse buyer the junk fee when paid. Benefit to seller: very quick sale. Benefit to buyer: savings of ~$2/point. Anyone tried anything like this?


----------



## Dean

altiste1 said:


> Just curious if anyone has tried to get creative with the purchase price and the junk fee. For example, purchase agreement between buyer and seller says $4/point, which gets submitted to Marriott. Buyer and seller have a separate reimbursement agreement (which Marriott never sees and is not referenced in the purchase agreement) under which seller agrees to reimburse buyer the junk fee when paid. Benefit to seller: very quick sale. Benefit to buyer: savings of ~$2/point. Anyone tried anything like this?


It's illegal in all states I am aware of.  What I have seen is the deal is set up where it could not be duplicated such as trading one timeshare for another.  The one time I'm aware of (both non MVC), the company simply required a cash value for each item and acted accordingly.


----------



## altiste1

Dean said:


> It's illegal in all states I am aware of.  What I have seen is the deal is set up where it could not be duplicated such as trading one timeshare for another.  The one time I'm aware of (both non MVC), the company simply required a cash value for each item and acted accordingly.


Why would it be illegal for two private parties to agree on a reimbursement of certain fees in the transaction? I can understand that a broker could probably not be involved, and the seller probably would not want to advertise such a structure. If you could point me to relevant statutes or case law, that would be helpful.


----------



## frank808

altiste1 said:


> Just curious if anyone has tried to get creative with the purchase price and the junk fee. For example, purchase agreement between buyer and seller says $4/point, which gets submitted to Marriott. Buyer and seller have a separate reimbursement agreement (which Marriott never sees and is not referenced in the purchase agreement) under which seller agrees to reimburse buyer the junk fee when paid. Benefit to seller: very quick sale. Benefit to buyer: savings of ~$2/point. Anyone tried anything like this?


To put it nicely, this does not sound legal. 

Getting caught..very small chance. 

Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk


----------



## BigDawgTUG

It's fraud.  When you apply for the waiver of ROFR, you need to state the terms of the offer.   If granted, the waiver expressly states that it is only valid for the offer that was presented.   So, if you mischaracterize, as here, the terms of the offer, then the waiver would not be valid.

Here is the exact language from each waiver that I have received:  "The waiver hereby granted applies only for the subject bona fide offer referenced hereinabove."


----------



## Dean

altiste1 said:


> Why would it be illegal for two private parties to agree on a reimbursement of certain fees in the transaction? I can understand that a broker could probably not be involved, and the seller probably would not want to advertise such a structure. If you could point me to relevant statutes or case law, that would be helpful.


A timeshare is real estate and as I understand it, FL law states the contract must contain the agreement and that a side agreement is illegal.  In this case you'd be trying to defraud MVC under their legal ROFR rights.  I've heard the same is true in a number of states and have never seen an exception for a different state though this would be state law and one would have to look at the state in question.


----------



## mjm1

nygiants11991 said:


> Has anyone had experience with what is passing on points.  In August 2020 I got 4000 points at $2 per point.  I have tried since then to get more but every-time it has failed.



We recently sold some DC points for $3 PP and MVC exercised their ROFR. We are still waiting for the paperwork from them. 



altiste1 said:


> Just curious if anyone has tried to get creative with the purchase price and the junk fee. For example, purchase agreement between buyer and seller says $4/point, which gets submitted to Marriott. Buyer and seller have a separate reimbursement agreement (which Marriott never sees and is not referenced in the purchase agreement) under which seller agrees to reimburse buyer the junk fee when paid. Benefit to seller: very quick sale. Benefit to buyer: savings of ~$2/point. Anyone tried anything like this?



Rather than have a separate agreement, which as others have mentioned is illegal, just include it in the agreement. Purchase price is $5 PP but the seller is responsible to pay the $3 PP fee to MVC. You would want the $3 PP amount to be held by the title company and they disburse it to MVC at the appropriate time. 

I haven’t tried that with MVC, but I have purchased resale units with other developers and grossed up the purchase price by the closing costs. 

It’s worth a try.

Best regards.

Mike


----------



## dioxide45

mjm1 said:


> We recently sold some DC points for $3 PP and MVC exercised their ROFR. We are still waiting for the paperwork from them.
> 
> 
> 
> Rather than have a separate agreement, which as others have mentioned is illegal, just include it in the agreement. Purchase price is $5 PP but the seller is responsible to pay the $3 PP fee to MVC. You would want the $3 PP amount to be held by the title company and they disburse it to MVC at the appropriate time.
> 
> I haven’t tried that with MVC, but I have purchased resale units with other developers and grossed up the purchase price by the closing costs.
> 
> It’s worth a try.
> 
> Best regards.
> 
> Mike


I beleive the exchange procedures indicate that the $3 per point is a buyer fee for initiation into the exchange company. So, technically, MVCI could subtract the $3PP from the agreed upon five and only pay $2.


----------



## tf2275

Any reason why a point resale contract cannot have the seller pay all closing costs and/or current MF?


----------



## jmhpsu93

tf2275 said:


> Any reason why a point resale contract cannot have the seller pay all closing costs and/or current MF?


I had a resale purchase earlier this year with that exact arrangement.  I paid the $3/point enrollment fee directly to MVC, though most brokers do that for you.


----------



## Dean

tf2275 said:


> Any reason why a point resale contract cannot have the seller pay all closing costs and/or current MF?


As long as it's written into the contract and not a side deal, you can agree to the seller or buyer paying for any items you agree to.


----------



## armrecsys

Hi I purchase a time share for kauai beach club in March,  I have been wait for the answer from Marriott to see if that are going to  ( pass ROFR). The closing company said they would sent them a note asking what the status was.
The closing company told me they would processed if they don’t reply.
Can someone tell me how that would work.
Are you allow to call the Marriott to see if the paperwork on this purchase was really sent to them.

please help
thanks 
Linda


----------



## TXTortoise

When did closing company submit the ROFR form?  If they do an electronic submission you should have had an answer within a week at most.

I’ve got three Hawaii weeks in processing and while ROFR has been quick, estoppel are taking 2-3 weeks per my closing agent on two of them.


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## bazzap

Isn’t ROFR for Kauai Beach Club officially 10 days?


			Marriott Vacation Club Right of First Refusal Policy List of Resorts | Advantage Vacation Timeshare Resales


----------



## vacationtime1

armrecsys said:


> Hi I purchase a time share for kauai beach club in March,  I have been wait for the answer from Marriott to see if that are going to  ( pass ROFR). The closing company said they would sent them a note asking what the status was.
> The closing company told me they would processed if they don’t reply.
> Can someone tell me how that would work.
> Are you allow to call the Marriott to see if the paperwork on this purchase was really sent to them.
> 
> please help
> thanks
> Linda



I sold a Kauai Beach Club unit about 15 months ago and Marriott ROFR'd it.  I received a written notice of Marriott's election to exercise its ROFR from the title company.

I have often been suspicious of situations where a seller claims ROFR was exercised following an eBay auction that closed at a low price.  It behooves a buyer to verify that ROFR was really exercised rather than seller trying to get out of a disadvantageous contract.


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## armrecsys

I got a email  from the closing company stating that   Marriott waved my purchase, I have not seem the paper work yet. Can’t wait.


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## Mlvnsmly

4500 Asia Pacific points passed.  Sent to Marriott @ $4 US per point


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## echino

Waiohai annual $7,300 failed.


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## Dean

Harbour Lake annual Platinum Plus failed at $133.  It took MVC about 2 days to take it.


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## frank808

Dean said:


> Harbour Lake annual Platinum Plus failed at $133. It took MVC about 2 days to take it.


Where did you find this gem? Was it $133 plus closing costs or was it all in at that price?

Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk


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## frank808

Mlvnsmly said:


> 4500 Asia Pacific points passed. Sent to Marriott @ $4 US per point


Congrats. Have fun using your new points! 

Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk


----------



## Mlvnsmly

Well I don't have them yet haha.  We're going to do MKO in 2023.  One of the few US locations you can book online with AP points.


----------



## bazzap

Mlvnsmly said:


> Well I don't have them yet haha.  We're going to do MKO in 2023.  One of the few US locations you can book online with AP points.


You can book all the other MVC resorts by phone though, which is not a bad trade off for buying the AP points at such a low price and with them having the lower MF rate compared to DC points


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## frank808

Mlvnsmly said:


> Well I don't have them yet haha. We're going to do MKO in 2023. One of the few US locations you can book online with AP points.


Might want to book first with the AP points, then do a request first with one of your Marriott weeks. Then you can save your points to book another location like Florida. FYI there is a slight premium booking MKO and MGC using AP points vs DP points.

Sent from my SM-T377P using Tapatalk


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## Dean

frank808 said:


> Where did you find this gem? Was it $133 plus closing costs or was it all in at that price?
> 
> Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk


It was including closing but this years week (and dues) which I didn't see as a big risks since it was a "fixed week" that far out.  I didn't need it but thought if I could get it cheaply enough I'd do it, esp owning a Platinum week there as well I thought I might try for week 51 AND 52 using the 13 month window.  I figured it a win/win.  I did get the ROFR letter forwarded to me as well.


----------



## SueDonJ

After a report today that this sticky thread is getting, "polluted with off-topic posts," this is a gentle reminder that this is meant to be a catch-all of dollar amounts that have passed/failed Marriott Vacation Club's ROFR thresholds. Questions/comments about the ROFR Waiver process should be posted in the discussion area (below the list of sticky threads) and questions/comments about particular posts here should be sent to the OP using direct messages (click on the envelope icon beside your User Name on the top right to bring up "Discussions.") Thanks!


----------



## dioxide45

SueDonJ said:


> After a report today that this sticky thread is getting, "polluted with off-topic posts," this is a gentle reminder that this is meant to be a catch-all of dollar amounts that have passed/failed Marriott Vacation Club's ROFR thresholds. Questions/comments about the ROFR Waiver process should be posted in the discussion area (below the list of sticky threads) and questions/comments about particular posts here should be sent to the OP using direct messages (click on the envelope icon beside your User Name on the top right to bring up "Discussions.") Thanks!


My thought is that ROFR.net is a good catch all for actual pass/fail results and amounts. This thread was initially created when ROFR.net was broken but it has long been fixed. I don't see why this can't be a thread for ROFR related discussion instead of "polluting" the forum with multiple threads on different ROFR discussions. Just my two cents.


----------



## samara64

So for AP points, do you still have to pay the $3 junk fees too.


----------



## frank808

samara64 said:


> So for AP points, do you still have to pay the $3 junk fees too.


No you do not. Although it is a different booking website than with DP points.

Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk


----------



## samara64

So what are the disadvantage of the AP points. I see you can call and book all US based resorts. Are you limited to a smaller window below 9 month.

I looked at their chart and looks like they can book some US properties directly and others via exchange with trust points. Is this true.


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## amy241

Marriott Ko Olina Beach Club, platinum Oceanview week, passed at $10,000.


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## l0410z

How do you correct a mistake on rofr.net.  I added a passed Grande Ocean Oceanside platinum for 9450. Instead of 4/15/2021 I put it in on 4/15/2020.  Sorry for the mistake and the request to fix but without accurate dates, trends could be missed.  The person selling went through a broker.  Not sure if it is true or not but after paperwork signed broker was confident it would pass because Marriott wasn’t exercising much in late 20 and early 21 at GO.


----------



## dioxide45

l0410z said:


> How do you correct a mistake on rofr.net.  I added a passed Grande Ocean Oceanside platinum for 9450. Instead of 4/15/2021 I put it in on 4/15/2020.  Sorry for the mistake and the request to fix but without accurate dates, trends could be missed.  The person selling went through a broker.  Not sure if it is true or not but after paperwork signed broker was confident it would pass because Marriott wasn’t exercising much in late 20 and early 21 at GO.


See the contact page of the ROFR site and send me an email. It will take me a while to fix it, so I suggest submitting the correct data and tell me which one to delete.


----------



## Gemini Chica

3 Bed Playa Andaluza Gold passed at 2000€ (approx 2400$).


----------



## samara64

Gemini Chica said:


> 3 Bed Playa Andaluza Gold passed at 2000€ (approx 2400$).




Does this come enroller in DC points. If not, how much does it cost to enroll it.


----------



## frank808

Any non developer resale post June 2010 are not enrolled in points.

To enroll in points, you must purchase a week direct or DC points. Right now it is 3000 DC points direct to enroll one resale week. Cost is about $33k to do that. Enroll up to 3 weeks if you purchase 4000 DC points(or 4500?) and with 5500 DC points purchase enroll up to 7 weeks. 

See you in a couple months if you are at home. 

Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk


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## Gemini Chica

samara64 said:


> Does this come enroller in DC points. If not, how much does it cost to enroll it.



No this was resale so not enrolled. Like Frank said would have to purchase direct someone in excess of 16.000€ to get 1 week enrolled. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## bazzap

frank808 said:


> Any non developer resale post June 2010 are not enrolled in points.
> 
> To enroll in points, you must purchase a week direct or DC points. Right now it is 3000 DC points direct to enroll one resale week. Cost is about $33k to do that. Enroll up to 3 weeks if you purchase 4000 DC points(or 4500?) and with 5500 DC points purchase enroll up to 7 weeks.
> 
> See you in a couple months if you are at home.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk



Just to clarify, as not everyone here may know:
Any US non developer resale post June 2010 are not enrolled in points.
For European resale, it was in 2012.
For Asia (Phuket) resale, it was in 2016.


----------



## samara64

Thanks @frank808, @Gemini Chica in and @bazzap . I know about domestic weeks but was not sure about the European or AP ones so I had to ask.

So for about $16K Euro you get an enrolled one. I got Trust points and am not very happy with availability as of now.

See you soon Frank.


----------



## Dean

frank808 said:


> Any non developer resale post June 2010 are not enrolled in points.
> 
> To enroll in points, you must purchase a week direct or DC points. Right now it is 3000 DC points direct to enroll one resale week. Cost is about $33k to do that. Enroll up to 3 weeks if you purchase 4000 DC points(or 4500?) and with 5500 DC points purchase enroll up to 7 weeks.
> 
> See you in a couple months if you are at home.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk


Frank, it's 4000 but only 2 weeks.  I know you know this as you've done it, but for others, one can also enroll by purchasing a week retail that's enrolled but not eligible to go in the trust like Aruba or St. Kitts.  Almost always cheaper and usually far less in yearly dues with no other downside that I can see.  Maybe Barry or others can speak for non Caribbean resorts but I don't think the same can be done with European or Asian weeks.


----------



## frank808

Dean said:


> Frank, it's 4000 but only 2 weeks. I know you know this as you've done it, but for others, one can also enroll by purchasing a week retail that's enrolled but not eligible to go in the trust like Aruba or St. Kitts. Almost always cheaper and usually far less in yearly dues with no other downside that I can see. Maybe Barry or others can speak for non Caribbean resorts but I don't think the same can be done with European or Asian weeks.



Pretty sure can't be done with Asian weeks. 

@vol_90 would be the expert about Phuket Beach weeks. He has enrolled Phuket weeks twice and would be the Tug expert on those.

Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk


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## bazzap

samara64 said:


> Thanks @frank808, @Gemini Chica in and @bazzap . I know about domestic weeks but was not sure about the European or AP ones so I had to ask.
> 
> So for about $16K Euro you get an enrolled one. I got Trust points and am not very happy with availability as of now.
> 
> See you soon Frank.


We enrolled our pre 2012 European and pre 2016 Resale weeks for zero fee, but that was because we were already in the DC Points Programme having previously enrolled our US and Caribbean weeks for $695.
In Europe, they are still selling enrolled weeks although, last time I checked for Club Son Antem Gold Weeks, I believe these were for >$20,000
In Asia, I am only aware of them now selling AP Points not Weeks (enrolled or not)


----------



## frank808

This was ROFR but is a trade of a Harbour Lake 2br platinum EOYO for my HGVC Bay Club 2br EOYO. 

Even when you trade units with no monies being exchanged, you have to get a ROFR waiver from MVC. Initially we listed it as trade of timeshare units,, which it is. Bay Club does not have ROFR so received waiver within a couple of days. Marriott came back and said that they cannot mimic those terms. We were told to put a dollar value on the unit. We both agreed on putting the value at $3k. ROFR was resubmitted to Marriott and passed in a few days. Done with LT timeshares and seems like this was the first one they have attempted. So if anyone wants to trade TS units between Marriott or Hilton, it is possible.

Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk


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## Dean

frank808 said:


> This was ROFR but is a trademark of a Harbour Lake 2br platinum EOYO for my HGVC Bay Club 2br EOYO.
> 
> Even when you trade units with no monies being exchanged, you have to get a ROFR waiver from MVC. Initially we listed it as trade of timeshare units,, which it is. Bay Club does not have ROFR so received waiver within a couple of days. Marriott came back and said that they cannot mimic those terms. We were told to put a dollar value on the unit. We both agreed on putting the value at $3k. ROFR was resubmitted to Marriott and passed in a few days. Done with LT timeshares and seems like this was the first one they have attempted. So if anyone wants to trade TS units between Marriott or Hilton, it is possible.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk


I had a similar situation with a a fixed week timeshare for DVC points years ago.  DVC required a dollar amount and we placed a value that was fair and reasonable for both.  I added to my DVC points and the other party was happier with the Aruba week.


----------



## frank808

Dean said:


> I had a similar situation with a a fixed week timeshare for DVC points years ago. DVC required a dollar amount and we placed a value that was fair and reasonable for both. I added to my DVC points and the other party was happier with the Aruba week.


I have to ask what was the Aruba TS you traded for the DVC points? I am making an educated guess that the DVC points are worth more than the Aruba TS currently.

Sent from my SM-T377P using Tapatalk


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## Dean

frank808 said:


> I have to ask what was the Aruba TS you traded for the DVC points? I am making an educated guess that the DVC points are worth more than the Aruba TS currently.
> 
> Sent from my SM-T377P using Tapatalk


Frank the fair value was really about identical at around $3K each at the time.  It was a La Cabana 1 BR which I traded for 50 OKW points that matched up with one of my UY for DVC.  I don't recall off hand which week it was at LCB but I never owned weeks 51-17.  It was likely week 18, 22 or 41.  It's been a while.  I later sold the OKW points as I downsized but I think you're correct that the current value would be quite a bit different.  Sometime later I converted my fixed weeks at La Cabana to Bluegreen points with a 3000 retail purchase, one of the best moves I've made in timesharing.


----------



## teddyo333

I was just informed that Marriott passed on our purchase of a Grande Ocean Gold season for $4000. First use will be 2022. Closing in @ two weeks and placing my Marriott Sunset Pointe (Sport Season) on the market. We like Hilton Head and look forward to having a unit on the beach.


----------



## Wahoo

Marriott waived ROFR on my Crystal Shores Gulfside Gold purchase @$6250.
Submitted the ROFR request June 2, MVC responded on June 3, <24 hours.  Fastest turnaround time I have experienced among the 10+ resale weeks I have purchased...


----------



## secakc

Just offered $17K for week 26 at NCV. This should pass ROFR right?


----------



## BJRSanDiego

secakc said:


> Just offered $17K for week 26 at NCV. This should pass ROFR right?


I would guess that this will easily pass ROFR.


----------



## Howiereed

Bought two Marriott Aruba Ocean Club Platinum Season Ocean View one bedrooms for $7,500 each.  Marriott waived their ROFR about a month ago.  I have posted these transactions in the database.


----------



## l0410z

Annual 3 Bedroom at Grand Chateau passed at 3500 (purchase) and sold EOY 2 bedroom and it passed at 1200.


----------



## Steve Fatula

Dean said:


> Frank, it's 4000 but only 2 weeks.  I know you know this as you've done it, but for others, one can also enroll by purchasing a week retail that's enrolled but not eligible to go in the trust like Aruba or St. Kitts.  Almost always cheaper and usually far less in yearly dues with no other downside that I can see.  Maybe Barry or others can speak for non Caribbean resorts but I don't think the same can be done with European or Asian weeks.



My European week purchased direct from Marriott came enrolled.


----------



## Dean

Steve Fatula said:


> My European week purchased direct from Marriott came enrolled.


Steve, the reference was discussing enrolling non enrolled weeks by a developer purchase, not simply buying an enrolled week.  There are quite a number of non US weeks that can be bought as an enrolled week.  But can you enroll non qualified weeks with such a purchase?


----------



## bazzap

Dean said:


> Steve, the reference was discussing enrolling non enrolled weeks by a developer purchase, not simply buying an enrolled week.  There are quite a number of non US weeks that can be bought as an enrolled week.  But can you enroll non qualified weeks with such a purchase?


Yes, I can confirm that option also exists.
In the Spanish resorts, they are offering now for example to buy one enrolled week e.g. Club Son Antem Gold 2 Bed, albeit for £14,000 and as part of the deal they will also enrol 1x ineligible week you already own.
This is not a benefit for us, as we have 4x ineligible weeks we would want to enrol along with our 7x already enrolled weeks.
However friends have just done this deal to include enrolling 1x ineligible week and 2x eligible weeks.


----------



## Dean

bazzap said:


> Yes, I can confirm that option also exists.
> In the Spanish resorts, they are offering now for example to buy one enrolled week e.g. Club Son Antem Gold 2 Bed, albeit for £14,000 and as part of the deal they will also enrol 1x ineligible week you already own.
> This is not a benefit for us, as we have 4x ineligible weeks we would want to enrol along with our 7x already enrolled weeks.
> However friends have just done this deal to include enrolling 1x ineligible week and 2x eligible weeks.


Thanks Barry, previously for Spanish resort it had been suggested this was not a problem but sounds like it is now albeit in a smaller scale but not the option for up to 7 weeks.  Good to know that there are other potential options.


----------



## bazzap

Dean said:


> Thanks Barry, previously for Spanish resort it had been suggested this was not a problem but sounds like it is now albeit in a smaller scale but not the option for up to 7 weeks.  Good to know that there are other potential options.


I have left a counter offer on the table with them, to just give them a pile of cash to enrol our 4x ineligible weeks without any additional weeks purchases.
I can’t imagine they will go for it, as it doesn’t fit their corporate model, but who knows they may decide they want the money for effectively nothing in return?


----------



## frank808

bazzap said:


> I have left a counter offer on the table with them, to just give them a pile of cash to enrol our 4x ineligible weeks without any additional weeks purchases.
> I can’t imagine they will go for it, as it doesn’t fit their corporate model, but who knows they may decide they want the money for effectively nothing in return?


Would think that to enroll weeks it would run $20K-$25K. Agree with your assesment that MVC would not do it without a purchase. 

You can buy a St. Kitts or Aruba week to enroll those 4 external weeks. 

Sent from my SM-T290 using Tapatalk


----------



## bazzap

frank808 said:


> Would think that to enroll weeks it would run $20K-$25K. Agree with your assesment that MVC would do it without a purchase.
> 
> You can buy a St. Kitts or Aruba week to enroll those 4 external weeks.
> 
> Sent from my SM-T290 using Tapatalk


We already own 2x St Kitts weeks. We haven’t visited recently, as although I love it there my wife is somewhat less enthusiastic.
So I also suggested to MVC a deal which would include giving back those weeks (or trading them plus a cash top up for more Club Son Antem weeks) as part of a package to enrol our ineligible weeks.
No current interest though, perhaps too complicated a deal for their business model?


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## frank808

What did she not like about St. Kitts besides being on the other side of island from airport? Loved looking for the monkeys.

Sent from my SM-T290 using Tapatalk


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## bazzap

frank808 said:


> What did she not like about St. Kitts besides being on the other side of island from airport? Loved looking for the monkeys.
> 
> Sent from my SM-T290 using Tapatalk


Nothing major.
I guess it is just that we are spoiled by the beautiful landscaping at Phuket Beach Club and Club Son Antem where we spend most of our time.
By comparison, Sue just finds that the St Kitts resort seems more concrete less garden, especially with the small MVC section rather over powered by the huge Marriott hotel, although when open (it has been closed to regular guests) this does guarantee a wide choice of restaurants and facilities.
We both love the friendly, never too busy undeveloped island feel though compared to most of the Caribbean.


----------



## hulagrandma

Just posted, our offer for $5500 Marriott Ko Olina 2 BR Oceanview EOY Even just passed ROFR.
It was sent 6/22 passed 6/24


----------



## WestCoast_03

First post on these forums. 

We just passed ROFR for Ko Olina Beach Club, 2BR annual, Ocean View, Week 52 fixed for $33K. Not exactly cheap but we're happy with it. Sent 6/28, passed 7/2.


----------



## HudsHut

@WestCoast_03 
Congratulations! Ko Olina is a gem. Welcome to TUG, and I hope  you enjoy your ownership.


----------



## Trooperal

Just received a ROFR from Marriott on a sale of Desert Springs Villas II red week that was offered at $1000.00.


----------



## TXTortoise

Trooperal said:


> Just received a ROFR from Marriott on a sale of Desert Springs Villas II red week that was offered at $1000.00.


Marriott exercised or waived ROFR?


----------



## TXTortoise

Not mine, but just loaded three ROFR fails to ROFR.net. Some folks just don't know value of these weeks, but points owners should be happy.

Marriott Maui Ocean Club Lahaina/Napili

Week 15 - 2BR OF @ $31K
Week 16 - 2BR OF @ $31K   These were a single closing at $62K.  Kinda surprised they didn't clear, as a floating week would have cleared at this value pre-COVID.

Week 37 - 3BR OF $31K   With only 22 3BR units there was no way this was going to pass.  During 2020 COVID two 3BRs passed at $60K and one at $48K.


----------



## jwalk03

Marriott just ROFR my Legends Edge Platinum for $1.


----------



## jwalk03

DAMN IT!  They ROFR my other week I was trying to buy too!  Gold Grande Vista 2BR $421.00


----------



## frank808

Wow gold grand vistas used to pass ROFR for $1. Seems like MVC is on a buying spree if it is cheap. Probably need more inventory for the trust. What better way to get inventory for essentially free to resale at $15 a point.

Sent from my SM-T290 using Tapatalk


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## jwalk03

frank808 said:


> Wow gold grand vistas used to pass ROFR for $. Seems like MVC is on a buying spree if it is cheap. Probably need more inventory for the trust. What better way to get inventory for essentially free to resale at $15.
> 
> Sent from my SM-T290 using Tapatalk



I am not surprised by the Legends Edge- I was just hopeful it would slip through.  I am shocked by the Gold Grande Vista and really disappointed!   Guess I will just keep trying...


----------



## jont

jwalk03 said:


> I am not surprised by the Legends Edge- I was just hopeful it would slip through.  I am shocked by the Gold Grande Vista and really disappointed!   Guess I will just keep trying...


Assuming the week is worth around 2000 pts. Buy it for next to nothing, add it to the trust and sell those points for around 24k. Not a bad deal for Marriott


----------



## Dean

jont said:


> Assuming the week is worth around 2000 pts. Buy it for next to nothing, add it to the trust and sell those points for around 24k. Not a bad deal for Marriott


For Platinum it should be 2250 points.  Assuming the system would have to pay the fees on that week (or pass it on to the trust members), that's not a great return right now with the even higher than normal maintenance fees there plus this pending issue.


> To Legends Edge Owners;
> In 2018, Legends Edge sustained property damage during Hurricane Michael, and in 2019, Legends Edge through its management company Marriott Resorts Hospitality Corporation (d/b/a Marriott Vacation Club International) – entered a contract with Centimark to make necessary repairs. The contract included a “not-to- exceed” contract sum of $980,706.
> Centimark appears to have completed the contracted repairs to the property. However, Centimark and Legends Edge disagree as to the contractual requirements for payment and and Centimark’s compliance with the requirements, including documentation of work performed and costs incurred. Legends Edge has paid Centimark $939,000. An independent adjuster evaluated the work performed by Centimark and valued the work at $939,000. Centimark claims it is entitled to additional compensation, recorded a lien to secure payment, and filed a lawsuit against Legends Edge to recover additional compensation and to foreclose the lien. Although no specific amount is provided, the documents filed in the lawsuit by Centimark reflect claims owed exceeding $100,000.
> All documents filed in the lawsuit are publicly available with the Bay County Clerk of Court and can be located by searching the case name [Centimark Corporation v. Legends Edge Condominium Association, Inc., et al. Case No. 2021-CA-000520 (Bay County, Florida)] in the following
> website: https://baycoclerk.com/court-records/case-search/.
> The lawsuit potentially exposes Legends Edge and its members to liability exceeding its insurance coverage.
> If Centimark prevails and is not paid, Centimark may potentially be able to force a sale of individual unit interests. Individual members are not required to intervene in the lawsuit but have the right to intervene if they so choose. Florida law requires notice to be given to all members, see Florida Statute 718.119, and the purpose of this letter is to be disseminated by the Board to give all members notice of the lawsuit and of their right to intervene.


----------



## jont

Dean said:


> For Platinum it should be 2250 points.  Assuming the system would have to pay the fees on that week (or pass it on to the trust members), that's not a great return right now with the even higher than normal maintenance fees there plus this pending issue.


I was speaking in generalities , not resort specific.The buyer of the trust points will be required to pay mf’s of around .65 cents per point. As you pointed out there will be some instances where the trust point mfs will not be sufficient to cover the underlying resort mf’sbut in most instances they probably do.
My point was that generally, Marriott is making boatloads of cash in recycling these weeks into points.


----------



## Dean

jont said:


> I was speaking in generalities , not resort specific.The buyer of the trust points will be required to pay mf’s of around .65 cents per point. As you pointed out there will be some instances where the trust point mfs will not be sufficient to cover the underlying resort mf’sbut in most instances they probably do.
> My point was that generally, Marriott is making boatloads of cash in recycling these weeks into points.


Actually I'd say that for many if not most weeks overall the fees on those points won't cover the underlying fees of the week.  I'm sure they're cherry picking for that reason and they should if this is their goal.  It's why I'm surprised they would take LE under ROFR given that the current fees are almost $2K and that the resort is current under a lawsuit that in their own words, could force the sale of the property.


----------



## dioxide45

Dean said:


> For Platinum it should be 2250 points.  Assuming the system would have to pay the fees on that week (or pass it on to the trust members), that's not a great return right now with the even higher than normal maintenance fees there plus this pending issue.


Not to derail this thread, but looking at the complaint, the platintivv (Centimark) claims they have only been paid $507,000. Yet the HOA claims to have paid them the full amount?


----------



## paxlin

Marriott Summit Watch ROFR exercised at $12300.
Added the result to rofr.net


----------



## 6scoops

Marriott's Oceana Palms, Gold Ocean Front 2 bd. $6500, Sent 6/24 - Passed 7/1
I've added it to ROFR.net


----------



## GraceR

We had an Aruba Surf Club Platinum 2 BR OV pass ROFR at $14,000 and now title has changed.  This included the former owners booking a week for us contiguous with reservations we already had using our existing weeks.  This is not a low amount, but the sale was with the Redweek confirmed listings, which made us feel secure against scammers, and the price is a fraction of what we paid for our previous weeks.  It is getting harder to book with points in that season and we like to go for at least 3 weeks at a time, so we are happy.


----------



## Squan66

GregT said:


> **** 5/1/16 - This link to the current, active ROFR database is added with the OP's permission:  ROFR Experiences (www.rofr.net) ****
> 
> All,
> 
> I have had a few PMs asking me to compute ROFR metrics for various offers, which I am happy to do, and also asking for the history of this _unofficial _metric.   The following thread is where we collected the data (such as it is).
> 
> I've taken the Points Value spreadsheet that TUGgers helped compile a couple of years back, and computed the ROFR metric for all weeks.
> 
> Accordingly, the attached is a hypothetical price of what should clear ROFR, if the metric can predict a ROFR exercise.
> 
> Please note, this approach is imperfect and I would hate to see a TUGger increase their bid based solely on this -- please make an offer price of what the week is worth to you.   And please consult with a broker on what has been passing ROFR lately, they will have the most current information.
> 
> Anyone can compute their own ROFR metric:
> 
> 1) Start with the DC Points that the underlying week is worth  (example: 3,000 DC Points)
> 2) Multiply #1 by $10 per point (representing how much Marriott can sell the related points for if they ROFR it and deposit to the Trust -- example:  3,000 * $10/point = $30,000)
> 3) Take your Offer Price ($5,000?) and divide it by the result of #2 (example: $5,000 / $30,000 = 16.6%)
> 4) The resulting percentage will likely be between 5% - 35%.
> 
> My theory is that weeks where #4 is less than 23% have a greater probability of not passing ROFR than if #4 is greater than 23%.  It is based on the linked thread up above.
> 
> I welcome comments, corrections and more recent data.  Good luck!
> 
> Best,
> 
> Greg


Greg,
How do I add to the database?
I tried to buy a one bedroom at Marriott Aruba Ocean Club (Platinum season) for $8000.  I was alerted this week that Marriott exercised the first right of refusal.


----------



## TXTortoise

ROFR.net



Squan66 said:


> Greg,
> How do I add to the database?
> I tried to buy a one bedroom at Marriott Aruba Ocean Club (Platinum season) for $8000.  I was alerted this week that Marriott exercised the first right of refusal.


----------



## jwalk03

I bought two Grande Vista weeks from the same seller a 2BR Platinum & a 2BR Gold for $3000.  It passed ROFR.  Not sure how to enter this since it was two weeks not just one.


----------



## dioxide45

jwalk03 said:


> I bought two Grande Vista weeks from the same seller a 2BR Platinum & a 2BR Gold for $3000.  It passed ROFR.  Not sure how to enter this since it was two weeks not just one.


If it was two weeks for $3000, enter it twice as $1500.


----------



## jwalk03

dioxide45 said:


> If it was two weeks for $3000, enter it twice as $1500.



I considered that but its not two equal weeks; one is gold and one is platinum.  I am unsure how it would have been submitted to Marriott, can you submit two weeks together as a package deal, or would they have been submitted separately?


----------



## Dean

jwalk03 said:


> I considered that but its not two equal weeks; one is gold and one is platinum.  I am unsure how it would have been submitted to Marriott, can you submit two weeks together as a package deal, or would they have been submitted separately?


If they were on one contract, they should have been submitted as a unit.  Personally I'd divide it up $2000 & $1000 in this situation but other divisions are just as reasonable including $3000 & $0 respectively.


----------



## jont

Recently made an offer for a Gold Grande Ocean Oceanside week for $6000. It passed ROFR  2 weeks ago after a 3-4 week review by Marriott. I am told by my closing Agent that it will take another 4-6 weeks for Marriott to finalize the purchase due to the backlog they have. Hope it’s a lot sooner.

sorry, I originally said platinum, meant gold. Wishful thinking!


----------



## dioxide45

jont said:


> Recently made an offer for a Gold Grande Ocean Oceanside week for $6000. It passed ROFR  2 weeks ago after a 3-4 week review by Marriott. I am told by my closing Agent that it will take another 4-6 weeks for Marriott to finalize the purchase due to the backlog they have. Hope it’s a lot sooner.
> 
> sorry, I originally said platinum, meant gold. Wishful thinking!


But did you really NEED it?


----------



## TXTortoise

jont said:


> Recently made an offer for a Gold Grande Ocean Oceanside week for $6000. It passed ROFR  2 weeks ago after a 3-4 week review by Marriott. I am told by my closing Agent that it will take another 4-6 weeks for Marriott to finalize the purchase due to the backlog they have. Hope it’s a lot sooner.
> 
> sorry, I originally said platinum, meant gold. Wishful thinking!



Plan on 2-3 months based on the my two that closed back in May and June.  Not just backlogs, but errors requiring resubmissions, etc.


----------



## jwalk03

Dean said:


> If they were on one contract, they should have been submitted as a unit.  Personally I'd divide it up $2000 & $1000 in this situation but other divisions are just as reasonable including $3000 & $0 respectively.



I got copies of the ROFR docs with the closing docs and it looks like they were submitted as $1500 each to Marriott, but they both passed so all good!  Just waiting on the transfer to be completed now.


----------



## Dean

jwalk03 said:


> I got copies of the ROFR docs with the closing docs and it looks like they were submitted as $1500 each to Marriott, but they both passed so all good!  Just waiting on the transfer to be completed now.


Congratulation, enjoy.


----------



## paxlin

Marriott Summit Watch $12300 as well as $12900 ROFR failed.
Heard from broker that she had one at $13500 that passed, so seems Marriott has been buying back Summit Watch below $13k.


----------



## O2L7

QUESTION ON PAYMENT OF ROFR FEE

We just passed ROFR selling a Shadow Ridge Gold week for $1500.
We received the ROFR Waiver E-mail within 2 days.

I don't see any billing or direction for paying the Waiver Fee
Do we just include the $95 with the $25 Transfer Fee when submitting the External Transfer Form and New Deed?


----------



## TXTortoise

O2L7 said:


> QUESTION ON PAYMENT OF ROFR FEE
> 
> We just passed ROFR selling a Shadow Ridge Gold week for $1500.
> We received the ROFR Waiver E-mail within 2 days.
> 
> I don't see any billing or direction for paying the Waiver Fee
> Do we just include the $95 with the $25 Transfer Fee when submitting the External Transfer Form and New Deed?



Closing it yourself or via someone like LTTransfers.com?


----------



## O2L7

TXTortoise said:


> Closing it yourself or via someone like LTTransfers.com?


Closing it ourselves since were original owners,  buyer is a friend, and it's only $1500

A deed is really simple since forms are online.  I've done a number of them and am experienced with the Clerk/Assessor.


----------



## TXTortoise

ROFR department is different from Owner Mods where the title change/accounts update happen.  Given how messed up their processing is now, might be worth a call to Owner Modifications.


----------



## trev111t

Just heard that our offer for Maui Ocean Club (Molokai, Maui & Lanai) ocean view 2BR EOY EVEN, passed Marriott ROFR. $9,400.
Nine days to clear ROFR.
Adding to rofr.net
We are happy! Already have a EOY even at Ko'Olina that will pair nicely to get us 2 weeks, EOY in Hawaii.

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk


----------



## l0410z

just sold my week 29 oceanfront unit at the monarch for 18,475.   It is a prime week (last week july) and a view only a hand full of other units have.  It appears the resale market is going up a bit.  Posted on redweek and had a number of people interested.   I hated getting rid of it but it only sleeps 6.  Now looking for a second platinum week at the GO.


----------



## lisa3635

It took 11 days to pass ROFR on a 3 bedroom Surfwatch Platinum for $12,000.


----------



## marmite

I just passed ROFR in 9 days, on a Grand Chateau 2BDR Platinum Lockoff for $2,950.  I'll enter it ROFR.net. Thanks for the great resource, that database has been really helpful to me over the years.


----------



## WI GAL

Failed on ROFR Marriott Aruba Surf Club, 2 of them each $12,500 High Season Oceanside


----------



## dioxide45

WI GAL said:


> Failed on ROFR Marriott Aruba Surf Club, 2 of them each $12,500 High Season Oceanside


Ahhh, you didn't really need em anyway


----------



## grupp

lisa3635 said:


> It took 11 days to pass ROFR on a 3 bedroom Surfwatch Platinum for $12,000.



What location was the unit?

EDIT: Never mind, I looked at the ROFR website and see it is a Gardenview


----------



## travelove

marmite said:


> I just passed ROFR in 9 days, on a Grand Chateau 2BDR Platinum Lockoff for $2,950.  I'll enter it ROFR.net. Thanks for the great resource, that database has been really helpful to me over the years.


Congratulations on Grand Chateau!  May I ask if you buy it for trading purposes or you want to stay there?  I'm thinking about it but just for trading purposes.  Also don't understand why most people suggest to buy Annual instead of YOY???


----------



## marmite

travelove said:


> Congratulations on Grand Chateau!  May I ask if you buy it for trading purposes or you want to stay there?  I'm thinking about it but just for trading purposes.  Also don't understand why most people suggest to buy Annual instead of YOY???


I will PM you with this so this thread stays clear of my ramblings...


----------



## travelove

marmite said:


> I will PM you with this so this thread stays clear of my ramblings...


thank you


----------



## l0410z

travelove said:


> Congratulations on Grand Chateau!  May I ask if you buy it for trading purposes or you want to stay there?  I'm thinking about it but just for trading purposes.  Also don't understand why most people suggest to buy Annual instead of YOY???



I purchased a grand chateau 2 br EOY in 2015 as a pure trader to see how it trades.  I paid 1800 on ebay with all fees.   We are tied to a school schedule and are a beach family so trades are usually popular places during popular times..  We traded it as a 1 br and studio, usually trading for 2 bedrooms.  It was so successful that this year we sold the EOY (got 1200) and purchased a 3 br annual for 3500 plus closing costs on redweek.   We went for the 3 br because  we wanted an easier time trading into the grande ocean during the summer (with the 2 bedroom side).    For 2022 (first use year of 3 br), we  put in a very small trading window because we own at the GO and  we  wanted the week before or week after we booked our unit.  We were confirmed for July 2022 within 3 weeks of requesting the trade.  It has a 1 day overlap but not a big deal and worth the one day waste.   Our last trade of the EOY was for St Thomas the end of April with the 1 bedroom and mid May for a 2 br at  the Oceana Palms with the studio.  .     We have been to Aruba (summer), OceanWatch (Easter), HHI (summer) and Palm Desert (Christmas) with the EOY with the only 1 br being Palm Desert .  I think the GC is a great trader and I have yet to hear Marriot exercising ROFR.


----------



## travelove

l0410z said:


> I purchased a grand chateau 2 br EOY in 2015 as a pure trader to see how it trades.  I paid 1800 on ebay with all fees.   We are tied to a school schedule and are a beach family so trades are usually popular places during popular times..  We traded it as a 1 br and studio, usually trading for 2 bedrooms.  It was so successful that this year we sold the EOY (got 1200) and purchased a 3 br annual for 3500 plus closing costs on redweek.   We went for the 3 br because  we wanted an easier time trading into the grande ocean during the summer (with the 2 bedroom side).    For 2022 (first use year of 3 br), we  put in a very small trading window because we own at the GO and  we  wanted the week before or week after we booked our unit.  We were confirmed for July 2022 within 3 weeks of requesting the trade.  It has a 1 day overlap but not a big deal and worth the one day waste.   Our last trade of the EOY was for St Thomas the end of April with the 1 bedroom and mid May for a 2 br at  the Oceana Palms with the studio.  .     We have been to Aruba (summer), OceanWatch (Easter), HHI (summer) and Palm Desert (Christmas) with the EOY with the only 1 br being Palm Desert .  I think the GC is a great trader and I have yet to hear Marriot exercising ROFR.


what an amazing trader.  This site is very dangerously good  thank you for sharing!  I'm going to buy annual use for sure.


----------



## l0410z

travelove said:


> what an amazing trader.  This site is very dangerously good  thank you for sharing!  I'm going to buy annual use for sure.



Anytime you are looking to trade within  II trading to get an upgrade requires work.  I do not want to leave you with the impression that it is automatic.  I check instant exchanges often and that is how many of the trades happened.   The reason for the 3 bedroom is for the trading value of a 2 bedroom into a 2 bedroom.  Just wanted to complete the picture.  Good luck.


----------



## travelove

l0410z said:


> Anytime you are looking to trade within  II trading to get an upgrade requires work.  I do not want to leave you with the impression that it is automatic.  I check instant exchanges often and that is how many of the trades happened.   The reason for the 3 bedroom is for the trading value of a 2 bedroom into a 2 bedroom.  Just wanted to complete the picture.  Good luck.


yes yes yes, I do understand that it is a lot of work.  I own a low trader for 15 years and went to amazing Marriott places by putting a lot of work
thank you for clarifying some information for me!


----------



## The Colorado Kid

ROFR Result
Marriott Barony Beach
Silver Season
Annual 2BR
Garden View
$1.25 purchase price
Passed ROFR 10/28/2021


----------



## grupp

Here is my recent ROFR experience, all of these passed

Marriott Mountainside Plat EOY Odd $7,500 plus closing
Marriot Manor Club Sequal Plat $500 Includes closing and free use of 2022 week
Marriott Canyon Village Plat $5,000 plus closing (2 weeks at this price first use 2022)
Marriott Summit Watch Plat $13,000 plus closing (3 weeks all with existing reservation for 2022)
Marriott Summit Watch Plat $12,000 plus closing (first use 2023)

Week I sold also passed

Marriott Maui Ocean Club Plat 2 Br Oceanfront  first use 2023 $25,000


----------



## The Colorado Kid

l0410z said:


> Anytime you are looking to trade within  II trading to get an upgrade requires work.  I do not want to leave you with the impression that it is automatic.  I check instant exchanges often and that is how many of the trades happened.   The reason for the 3 bedroom is for the trading value of a 2 bedroom into a 2 bedroom.  Just wanted to complete the picture.  Good luck.


Is an Instant Exchange different from whatever II calls an on-going search?


----------



## marmite

The Colorado Kid said:


> Is an Instant Exchange different from whatever II calls an on-going search?


I think they are referring to searching on II for available inventory and grabbing a week they like.  You have to search frequently as inventory is constantly changing, but there is plenty of great stuff that shows up especially in the Flexchange period (59 days before check-in). During Flexchange you can often grab a 2 bedroom and not have to pay the size upgrade fee.  If you are hoping to do this, I also suggest you read about how to use E-Plus.

And yes, an on-going search is where Interval International tries to match you to a unit and dates that you have requested (no work required by you after you have put in your request).


----------



## The Colorado Kid

marmite said:


> I think they are referring to searching on II for available inventory and grabbing a week they like.  You have to search frequently as inventory is constantly changing, but there is plenty of great stuff that shows up especially in the Flexchange period (59 days before check-in). During Flexchange you can often grab a 2 bedroom and not have to pay the size upgrade fee.  If you are hoping to do this, I also suggest you read about how to use E-Plus.
> 
> And yes, an on-going search is where Interval International tries to match you to a unit and dates that you have requested (no work required by you after you have put in your request).


@marmite - other II users have said that if you don't use the II ongoing search you are only offered the leftovers after all the searches are fulfilled?  Also...Yes Eplus rules!


----------



## l0410z

The Colorado Kid said:


> Is an Instant Exchange different from whatever II calls an on-going search?



when I am doing a size upgrade I use instant exchange which looks at current inventory and I do look very  frequently usually in the early morning before 7 am.  I sometimes do this 5 times a week.   It takes 2 minutes.  I picked up a Grande Ocean the third week in August 2022 with the 1 bedroom of the Grande  Chateau.  I am always pleasantly surprised the inventory that shows up so far out.  I am  not sure how a summer Grande Ocean showed up on instant exchange which implies no one had a exchange request in that would have traded, but it did and does.  This unit my son will use.    I got the end of April 2022 at St Thomas which is platinum with a 1 bedroom GC and a 2 bedroom at at Oceana Palms mid May 2022 which is the first week of gold season with a studio GC.    I did use an exchange request when trading the two bedroom side of the Grand Chateau for the Grande Ocean because I had only two weeks in July I was looking to book and it was like value.


----------



## haras

marmite said:


> I just passed ROFR in 9 days, on a Grand Chateau 2BDR Platinum Lockoff for $2,950.  I'll enter it ROFR.net. Thanks for the great resource, that database has been really helpful to me over the years.



was this an annual?


----------



## jazzeah

GregT said:


> **** 5/1/16 - This link to the current, active ROFR database is added with the OP's permission:  ROFR Experiences (www.rofr.net) ****
> 
> All,
> 
> I have had a few PMs asking me to compute ROFR metrics for various offers, which I am happy to do, and also asking for the history of this _unofficial _metric.   The following thread is where we collected the data (such as it is).
> 
> I've taken the Points Value spreadsheet that TUGgers helped compile a couple of years back, and computed the ROFR metric for all weeks.
> 
> Accordingly, the attached is a hypothetical price of what should clear ROFR, if the metric can predict a ROFR exercise.
> 
> Please note, this approach is imperfect and I would hate to see a TUGger increase their bid based solely on this -- please make an offer price of what the week is worth to you.   And please consult with a broker on what has been passing ROFR lately, they will have the most current information.
> 
> Anyone can compute their own ROFR metric:
> 
> 1) Start with the DC Points that the underlying week is worth  (example: 3,000 DC Points)
> 2) Multiply #1 by $10 per point (representing how much Marriott can sell the related points for if they ROFR it and deposit to the Trust -- example:  3,000 * $10/point = $30,000)
> 3) Take your Offer Price ($5,000?) and divide it by the result of #2 (example: $5,000 / $30,000 = 16.6%)
> 4) The resulting percentage will likely be between 5% - 35%.
> 
> My theory is that weeks where #4 is less than 23% have a greater probability of not passing ROFR than if #4 is greater than 23%.  It is based on the linked thread up above.
> 
> I welcome comments, corrections and more recent data.  Good luck!
> 
> Best,
> 
> Greg


what does a "-" or blank mean?  

_[*Moderator Note*: Ad-like comment deleted.] <-- SueDonJ_


----------



## marmite

haras said:


> was this an annual?


Yes.


----------



## marmite

Just found out today that Marriott exercised on Harbour Lake, annual 2BR, Week 52 Plat Plus.  $1,200.   Have entered it into the database.


----------



## jmhpsu93

marmite said:


> Just found out today that Marriott exercised on Harbour Lake, annual 2BR, Week 52 Plat Plus.  $1,200.   Have entered it into the database.


Was that the Ebay one from a couple weeks ago?  I was bidding on that too!


----------



## marmite

jmhpsu93 said:


> Was that the Ebay one from a couple weeks ago?  I was bidding on that too!


Yep, I just saved you the hassle of the paperwork!


----------



## lisa3635

I will post in the database, but Marriott excercised Rofr on a Barony platinum oceanside for $8000.


----------



## rmclain73

I put it in the database, but Marriott passed on my Aruba Surf Club platinum season OV at $15k.


----------



## echino

rmclain73 said:


> I put it in the database, but Marriott passed on my Aruba Surf Club platinum season at $15k.



Which view?

Edit: nvm, saw it's ocean view.


----------



## yingyingtravels

marmite said:


> I will PM you with this so this thread stays clear of my ramblings...


I'm looking to purchase at Grand Chateau as well, would you mind sending me some tips as well? Thanks!


----------



## vol_90

Marriott Grand Chateau 3 Bedroom Platinum Annual passed at $3,500 (found on Redweek).  Will add to ROFR.net once the transaction closes.


----------



## echino

delete


----------



## cory30

Marriott Willow Ridge Lodge 2 Bedroom Platinum Annual passed at $750 (with seller paying closing and transfer costs). Will add to ROFR.net once the transaction closes.


----------



## The Colorado Kid

ROFR Passed for Marriott Harbour Lake Annual Platinum at $128 - will post to the log when transfer is final.


----------



## nygiants11991

Maui Ocean Club Ocean Front 2 bedroom 3 bath every other year (even) passed at $13,000 last week.


----------



## emoneybug

cory30 said:


> Marriott Willow Ridge Lodge 2 Bedroom Platinum Annual passed at $750 (with seller paying closing and transfer costs). Will add to ROFR.net once the transaction closes.



Where did you find your seller at?


----------



## The Colorado Kid

Marriott Willow Ridge Lodge 2BR EOYE Gold Season passed at $1 - Will add to rofr.net when transaction closes.


----------



## nygiants11991

Maui Ocean Club 2 bed 3 bath Ocean Front annual passed yesterday for $26,000


----------



## Vacation fun

How long is It taking to hear back from Marriott on ROFR ?


----------



## cory30

emoneybug said:


> Where did you find your seller at?



Redweek


----------



## igopogo

Vacation fun said:


> How long is It taking to hear back from Marriott on ROFR ?


I heard back in about six days for MGR South Lake Tahoe.  I haven’t posted yet.


----------



## Vacation fun

igopogo said:


> I heard back in about six days for MGR South Lake Tahoe.  I haven’t posted yet.


Thanks 
Great did it pass ? The realtor shared she hasn’t seen Marriott buy back lately … hope that is true .


----------



## igopogo

Vacation fun said:


> Thanks
> Great did it pass ? The realtor shared she hasn’t seen Marriott buy back lately … hope that is true .


Both passed.  We estimated the floor at $47000.  

We purchased two 1br courtyard view quarters at MGA for $50K and $52K, both passed


----------



## nygiants11991

Vacation fun said:


> How long is It taking to hear back from Marriott on ROFR ?


The closing agent sent it in on a Thursday and we heard back on Wednesday


----------



## yingyingtravels

I put an offer for Grand Chateau 2-Bedroom lockoff EOY Platinum for $2700 on Jan 4, passed ROFR on Feb 7. I also put an offer for Cypress Harbour 2-Bedroom Annual Platinum for $1500 on Jan 28, passed on Feb 8. Both have been submitted to www.rofr.net/ 

Now to wait 30 to 60 days for Marriott to record the transfers and I can start booking


----------



## dioxide45

yingyingtravels said:


> I put an offer for Grand Chateau 2-Bedroom lockoff EOY Platinum for $2700 on Jan 4, passed ROFR on Feb 7. I also put an offer for Cypress Harbour 2-Bedroom Annual Platinum for $1500 on Jan 28, passed on Feb 8. Both have been submitted to www.rofr.net/
> 
> Now to wait 30 to 60 days for Marriott to record the transfers and I can start booking


It might take longer than that, you haven't even got to closing on the last one yet. It still needs to get seller signatures, recorded in Orange County and then go to Marriott. Just setting expectations.


----------



## nygiants11991

dioxide45 said:


> It might take longer than that, you haven't even got to closing on the last one yet. It still needs to get seller signatures, recorded in Orange County and then go to Marriott. Just setting expectations.



Yeah it is more like 10 weeks just for Marriott to transfer.


----------



## yingyingtravels

dioxide45 said:


> It might take longer than that, you haven't even got to closing on the last one yet. It still needs to get seller signatures, recorded in Orange County and then go to Marriott. Just setting expectations.


Good to know! Both brokers told me that they have sent the final documents to the resorts to complete the transfers. One broker said around 60 days, the other broker said around 8 weeks. Good thing I don't have any deadlines for booking trips right now


----------



## dioxide45

yingyingtravels said:


> Good to know! Both brokers told me that they have sent the final documents to the resorts to complete the transfers. One broker said around 60 days, the other broker said around 8 weeks. Good thing I don't have any deadlines for booking trips right now


I don't see how a sale where they just received ROFR today could have already been sent to Marriott. Though I suspect they are using either POA or a pre signed signature page of the deed and could have eRecorded the deed with Orange County Comptroller. So anything is possible.


----------



## Wolfpack5407

I put an offer for Grand Chateau 2-Bedroom lockoff EOY Platinum for $1600. It passed ROFR on Feb 17.


----------



## jmhpsu93

Cypress Harbor 2 BR Annual Special season passed on 2/24/22 at $408.


----------



## ded4025

Newport Coast Villas, platinum, annual, passed on 2/24/22 at $8,400.  Seller paid closing cost.


----------



## vol_90

yingyingtravels said:


> I put an offer for Grand Chateau 2-Bedroom lockoff EOY Platinum for $2700 on Jan 4, passed ROFR on Feb 7. I also put an offer for Cypress Harbour 2-Bedroom Annual Platinum for $1500 on Jan 28, passed on Feb 8. Both have been submitted to www.rofr.net/
> 
> Now to wait 30 to 60 days for Marriott to record the transfers and I can start booking


Timing of 2 recent resale purchases:

1.) Purchase initiated on Oct. 14th and used LT Transfers.  The seller was responsive and did not cause delays.  HOTA mailed to Marriott on Dec. 17th, week deposited into my MVCI account February 22nd.  132 total days to complete transaction
2.) Purchase initiated on Nov. 5th and used Confused About Timeshares.  The seller was responsive and did not cause delays.  HOTA mailed to Marriott on Dec. 20th, week deposited into my MVCI account March 1st.  117 total days to complete the transaction

Would set expectations of 8 to 10 weeks of Marriott processing time once HOTA's are mailed.


----------



## jmhpsu93

2 BR Harbour Lake Annual Platinum passed at $799 with seller paying closing costs.


----------



## jwalk03

I bought 3- 2BR Annual Grande Vista Gold weeks.
$200
$200
$202
All 3 passed on 3/24/22.


----------



## dioxide45

jwalk03 said:


> I bought 3- 2BR Annual Grande Vista Gold weeks.
> $200
> $200
> $202
> All 3 passed on 3/24/22.


Seems that Marriott isn't interested in Gold Orlando weeks. For reference, we paid about $7,000 when we bought our MGV Gold Resale back in 2007.


----------



## jwalk03

dioxide45 said:


> Seems that Marriott isn't interested in Gold Orlando weeks. For reference, we paid about $7,000 when we bought our MGV Gold Resale back in 2007.



They ROFR one I tried to buy last year for $421.  Grand Vista Gold 2BR same as these, but happy they let these ones go!


----------



## dioxide45

jwalk03 said:


> They ROFR one I tried to buy last year for $421.  Grand Vista Gold 2BR same as these, but happy they let these ones go!


Were these eBay purchases? Do you know for sure that these were the dollar amounts as submitted to Marriott? Sometimes brokers will throw in a bunch of fees and commissions when they submit to Marriott.


----------



## jwalk03

dioxide45 said:


> Were these eBay purchases? Do you know for sure that these were the dollar amounts as submitted to Marriott? Sometimes brokers will throw in a bunch of fees and commissions when they submit to Marriott.



The $202 was an eBay auction.  The other 2 were from the same seller who offered them to me before he listed them for the same price as well since I was buying the one.  I did not actually see the RORF paperwork.  That said the $421 one was also the same seller, so i would assume the process would have been the same for all of them.


----------



## MOXJO7282

Maui Ocean Club Napili Towers 9th floor 3BDRM week 35 failed at $39,850.


----------



## yingyingtravels

yingyingtravels said:


> I put an offer for Grand Chateau 2-Bedroom lockoff EOY Platinum for $2700 on Jan 4, passed ROFR on Feb 7. I also put an offer for Cypress Harbour 2-Bedroom Annual Platinum for $1500 on Jan 28, passed on Feb 8. Both have been submitted to www.rofr.net/
> 
> Now to wait 30 to 60 days for Marriott to record the transfers and I can start booking



Both weeks were added to my account on April 7, 2022


----------



## igopogo

yingyingtravels said:


> Both weeks were added to my account on April 7, 2022


That’s great!  Seems like it’s been 70+ days recently.  Maybe my trade that they received on 2/17 will show up this week.


----------



## DRH90277

FYI - Vacation Club recording a week on their records after legal transfer - We were notified today that our resale purchase of Boston Custom House is now recorded on the Marriott side.  The deed was recorded on February 3rd and Vacation Club recorded it today, March 13th - just over 2 months.  

Fortunately, we had the seller secure our 2022 reservation while it was in their names.


----------



## jmhpsu93

jmhpsu93 said:


> Cypress Harbor 2 BR Annual Special season passed on 2/24/22 at $408.


I was notified by Marriott that this is my account yesterday, and it showed up online this morning.  About 8 weeks.


----------



## jwalk03

I bought 3 gold weeks GV weeks on 2/7- the first week was sent to Marriott on 3/8 and confirmed transfer from Marriott today- so 49 days for Marriott to transfer and 78 days start to finish.  

The other 2 were sent to Marriott on 3/26 & 4/12, so we'll see if the ~49 days or so holds once those ones transfer.


----------



## DanCali

jwalk03 said:


> I bought 3 gold weeks GV weeks on 2/7- the first week was sent to Marriott on 3/8 and confirmed transfer from Marriott today- so 49 days for Marriott to transfer and 78 days start to finish.
> 
> The other 2 were sent to Marriott on 3/26 & 4/12, so we'll see if the ~49 days or so holds once those ones transfer.




I'm waiting on one that went to Marriott around 3/18. Based on your timeline, maybe another 1-2 weeks.


----------



## eyedude

DSV2.  Made offer 1/27/22.  Marriott put the week into my account 5/2/22.  Purchase price $3750 but included reserved Christmas week 2022.  Since the MF is about $1520 and the property tax is about $100, I figure I paid about $2130 for the week.  I asked the owner to reserve a 2023 week for me and they secured March 18.  I locked off both weeks and deposited into II.  Interesting to see that the spring 2023 week has noticeable better trading power than the Christmas week.  TDI is 150 for spring 2023 and 135 for Christmas 2022.  Already secured a Newport Coast Villas for early October 2022 using the suite portion of my Christmas week.  3 more trades to go.  Most of the trades were made for 2023 and 2024 weeks so it will be awhile before I can get a match.  I will be interested to see what the trade power is...hopefully it is as good as many have suggested here in the forums.


----------



## jwalk03

Marriott's Grande Vista, 2BR Platinum, $3000, passed ROFR.


----------



## jmhpsu93

jmhpsu93 said:


> 2 BR Harbour Lake Annual Platinum passed at $799 with seller paying closing costs.


This was submitted to MVC in mid-March and I got notification from Owner Services this morning, so about 8 weeks or so.


----------



## Mongoose

jmhpsu93 said:


> This was submitted to MVC in mid-March and I got notification from Owner Services this morning, so about 8 weeks or so.


Are they focusing their ROFR on points and letting the deeds go?


----------



## jmhpsu93

Mongoose said:


> Are they focusing their ROFR on points and letting the deeds go?


Not really.  From ROFR.net it appears they're grabbing high value weeks and letting the lesser ones slide through, plus taking most of the points sales under $3.75 or so.

That's a big generalization, though, and it can be kinda random.


----------



## Johnsc

Seems almost all of the points are failing ROFR


----------



## Mongoose

Johnsc said:


> Seems almost all of the points are failing ROFR


People are more likely to document a failed purchase than a successful one.


----------



## dioxide45

Mongoose said:


> People are more likely to document a failed purchase than a successful one.


Not so sure, people also like to brag about what they were able to get through.

I will add though, people are likely to report a failed ROFR right away where they will wait until a passed ROFR is in their account before reporting it on ROFR.net.


----------



## jwalk03

jwalk03 said:


> I bought 3 gold weeks GV weeks on 2/7- the first week was sent to Marriott on 3/8 and confirmed transfer from Marriott today- so 49 days for Marriott to transfer and 78 days start to finish.
> 
> The other 2 were sent to Marriott on 3/26 & 4/12, so we'll see if the ~49 days or so holds once those ones transfer.



Week number 2 transferred today.  So 3/26 to 5/23= 58 days.  One more to go...


----------



## jwalk03

jwalk03 said:


> Week number 2 transferred today.  So 3/26 to 5/23= 58 days.  One more to go...



The third week transferred today!  so that one was only 42 days!


----------



## ded4025

Received my transfer email today, 48 days!


----------



## Bodie

GregT said:


> **** 5/1/16 - This link to the current, active ROFR database is added with the OP's permission:  ROFR Experiences (www.rofr.net) ****
> 
> All,
> 
> I have had a few PMs asking me to compute ROFR metrics for various offers, which I am happy to do, and also asking for the history of this _unofficial _metric.   The following thread is where we collected the data (such as it is).
> 
> I've taken the Points Value spreadsheet that TUGgers helped compile a couple of years back, and computed the ROFR metric for all weeks.
> 
> Accordingly, the attached is a hypothetical price of what should clear ROFR, if the metric can predict a ROFR exercise.
> 
> Please note, this approach is imperfect and I would hate to see a TUGger increase their bid based solely on this -- please make an offer price of what the week is worth to you.   And please consult with a broker on what has been passing ROFR lately, they will have the most current information.
> 
> Anyone can compute their own ROFR metric:
> 
> 1) Start with the DC Points that the underlying week is worth  (example: 3,000 DC Points)
> 2) Multiply #1 by $10 per point (representing how much Marriott can sell the related points for if they ROFR it and deposit to the Trust -- example:  3,000 * $10/point = $30,000)
> 3) Take your Offer Price ($5,000?) and divide it by the result of #2 (example: $5,000 / $30,000 = 16.6%)
> 4) The resulting percentage will likely be between 5% - 35%.
> 
> My theory is that weeks where #4 is less than 23% have a greater probability of not passing ROFR than if #4 is greater than 23%.  It is based on the linked thread up above.
> 
> I welcome comments, corrections and more recent data.  Good luck!
> 
> Best,
> 
> Greg



Hi Greg,  you seem to be the man to whom others go with questions, so if you can entertain one more?  I am looking to get Executive to Presidential for which I need 1350 DC points (technically 1500 as that is the tronche MVC requires).  What is the best way one can do that and ensure that MVC accepts the deal with no restrictions?  Also, how does one avoid shady brokers?  Haven't checked any deals with MVC directly (Plus Points are a joke) but assuming $15 or more  per point, I'm looking at close to $25K which is a non starter.  Thanks for your wisdom.   Bodie in CA


----------



## jmhpsu93

Bodie said:


> Hi Greg,  you seem to be the man to whom others go with questions, so if you can entertain one more?  I am looking to get Executive to Presidential for which I need 1350 DC points (technically 1500 as that is the tronche MVC requires).  What is the best way one can do that and ensure that MVC accepts the deal with no restrictions?  Also, how does one avoid shady brokers?  Haven't checked any deals with MVC directly (Plus Points are a joke) but assuming $15 or more  per point, I'm looking at close to $25K which is a non starter.  Thanks for your wisdom.   Bodie in CA


This isn't Greg but I'll chime in.  I've bought several resale weeks and DC points from eBay brokers.  Most are reputable and I've never had an issue other than maybe transactions taking forever with one particular broker.  You could also look at the TUG classifieds and Redweek.

You'll probably need to purchase for $3.50 or higher to clear ROFR, and you might hav to try a couple of times to make it through.  Once you've passed ROFR you'll need to pay MVC $3/point to enroll them in the system.  Once there they function just like points you bought from the developer and would count towards your status.  I have first hand experience buying 1,000 points to get to Select a couple of years ago.


----------



## Bodie

jmhpsu93 said:


> This isn't Greg but I'll chime in.  I've bought several resale weeks and DC points from eBay brokers.  Most are reputable and I've never had an issue other than maybe transactions taking forever with one particular broker.  You could also look at the TUG classifieds and Redweek.
> 
> You'll probably need to purchase for $3.50 or higher to clear ROFR, and you might hav to try a couple of times to make it through.  Once you've passed ROFR you'll need to pay MVC $3/point to enroll them in the system.  Once there they function just like points you bought from the developer and would count towards your status.  I have first hand experience buying 1,000 points to get to Select a couple of years ago.


Thank you. I’m always concerned about the legitimacy of brokers.  Also that MVC would not allow these points to be used with full privileges.
That price point is a whole lot better than MVC.


----------



## barbdewald

2 BD Lockoff at Ko Olina.  Contract for $7,000 did NOT go through.  MVCI exercised the ROFR.  However, another week for $7,500 did go through, so we got a week.


----------



## echino

barbdewald said:


> 2 BD Lockoff at Ko Olina.  Contract for $7,000 did NOT go through.  MVCI exercised the ROFR.  However, another week for $7,500 did go through, so we got a week.



Annual? Which view?


----------



## barbdewald

echino said:


> Annual? Which view?


They both were annual, mountain view


----------



## vacationtime1

barbdewald said:


> They both were annual, mountain view


Please add them to the database:  www.rofr.net.  

This pair of data points is very useful.


----------



## SteveinHNL

I have been inquiring about Marriott Timber Lodge platinum summer weeks with various realtors who are listing resales.  One realtor told me that Marriott just exercised ROFR on a platinum summer week at $6,500 and yesterday a different realtor told me that Marriott just exercised ROFR on a platinum summer week at $7,000.  These are pretty high numbers to be seeing ROFR, imo, but there it is.


----------



## TXTortoise

SteveinHNL said:


> I have been inquiring about Marriott Timber Lodge platinum summer weeks with various realtors who are listing resales.  One realtor told me that Marriott just exercised ROFR on a platinum summer week at $6,500 and yesterday a different realtor told me that Marriott just exercised ROFR on a platinum summer week at $7,000.  These are pretty high numbers to be seeing ROFR, imo, but there it is.


please add to ROFR.net


----------



## SteveinHNL

TXTortoise said:


> please add to ROFR.net


Can and should I do this if the information is anecdotal from the realtors vs. my having personal knowledge from being part of the transaction?


----------



## TXTortoise

SteveinHNL said:


> Can and should I do this if the information is anecdotal from the realtors vs. my having personal knowledge from being part of the transaction?


If you believe it to be true from a good source, I'd post it. If worth sharing here, then worth being on ROFR.net


----------



## jabberwocky

Keep in mind that realtors have incentives to tell you that ROFR prices are higher than they actually are. It makes their job easier. Unless it was someone I had complete faith in, I wouldn’t consider it 100% reliable.

Just a thought.


----------



## rmclain73

SteveinHNL said:


> Can and should I do this if the information is anecdotal from the realtors vs. my having personal knowledge from being part of the transaction?



At the time when I was looking to purchase my week I first spoke with a realtor I found on Redweek as she had a lot of units listed.  I put in a offer on a unit she was selling based on recent ROFR prices.  She told me the my offer would never pass even though it was a bit higher than identical units that had sold and recently passed.  The realtor was very aggressive to get me to come up higher. So much so that she laughed at my offer and told me her sellers would never accept it.  I ended up buying my unit directly through a different owner and a closing company.   My offer made it through no problem just as I suspected it would.  I now see the realtor has lowered the price on all of her units for sale.


----------



## needvaca

I bought MGV Marriott Grande Vista 2BR Platinum EOY from Ebay, paid $1425 all in.  I just got the Marriott email yesterday that it's in my account.  Marriott took about 7 weeks once they got the paperwork.  I'll add to ROFR.net


----------



## l0410z

Added it to the ROFR but picked up a 3 br EOY Grand Chateau for 2450 from a broker on Redweek.


----------



## lisa3635

Can anyone tell me how long ROFR has been taking recently?


----------



## jwalk03

lisa3635 said:


> Can anyone tell me how long ROFR has been taking recently?



Every week I have bought this year has taken less than a week for Marriott to make an ROFR decision.


----------



## TXTortoise

lisa3635 said:


> Can anyone tell me how long ROFR has been taking recently?


 If your closing company uses online submission I've had it happen within 48 hours, if not....


----------



## DRH90277

Two transactions this month through 2 different closing companies - ROFR waiver requests were submitted by Tuesday 5:30 pm deadline and approved within 48 hours.   Thank you, Vacation Club.


----------



## Dean

Grande Vista 2 BR Platinum FL Club unit (ODD, EOY) $870 all in with no additional fees.  First usage 2023.  Currently trying to decide whether to book OP Feb or GV week 26 with either as a lock off.


----------



## billymach4

Dean said:


> Grande Vista 2 BR Platinum FL Club unit (ODD, EOY) $870 all in with no additional fees.  First usage 2023.  Currently trying to decide whether to book OP Feb or GV week 26 with either as a lock off.



That's Great. Can't believe how cheap that was!


----------



## Dean

billymach4 said:


> That's Great. Can't believe how cheap that was!


Pretty high closing but I looked at the overall price.  I felt the timing of the week and Maintenance fees was about as good as it could get for my situaiton.  The seller (timesharediscounts) and closing company (TransferCo) have booth been gems to work with, best I've ever had by far.  Responsive, proactive, responds to emails, kept me informed with specific details and realistic information.  From close of Ebay auction to in my account was 2.5 months mostly waiting on MVC.  ROFR was very fast (1 day).  From date MVC picked up the packet to in my account was right at 6 weeks.  I had 2 others taken under ROFR a few years ago (2017 & 2018).  Both were annual and prices of $551 & $1011.


----------



## jmhpsu93

Dean said:


> Pretty high closing but I looked at the overall price.  I felt the timing of the week and Maintenance fees was about as good as it could get for my situaiton.  The seller (timesharediscounts) and closing company (TransferCo) have booth been gems to work with, best I've ever had by far.  Responsive, proactive, responds to emails, kept me informed with specific details and realistic information.  From close of Ebay auction to in my account was 2.5 months mostly waiting on MVC.  ROFR was very fast (1 day).  From date MVC picked up the packet to in my account was right at 6 weeks.  I had 2 others taken under ROFR a few years ago (2017 & 2018).  Both were annual and prices of $551 & $1011.


I've had good experiences with that seller/closing as well.  Nice pickup, Dean.


----------



## DRH90277

billymach4 said:


> That's Great. Can't believe how cheap that was!



Does anyone have any insight into a tendency by Vacation to let EOY years through the ROFR process at lower sales prices.  I'm thinking the administrative difference might cause them to pass on EOY units.  Make any sense?


----------



## sjsharkie

DRH90277 said:


> Does anyone have any insight into a tendency by Vacation to let EOY years through the ROFR process at lower sales prices.  I'm thinking the administrative difference might cause them to pass on EOY units.  Make any sense?


Anecdotally, yes.  This has been discussed before but too lazy to look for the post/thread.


----------



## DRH90277

sjsharkie said:


> Anecdotally, yes.  This has been discussed before but too lazy to look for the post/thread.


Thank you - no reason to chase this.  It makes sense.  I'll watch for an opportunity to test it.


----------



## Dean

DRH90277 said:


> Does anyone have any insight into a tendency by Vacation to let EOY years through the ROFR process at lower sales prices.  I'm thinking the administrative difference might cause them to pass on EOY units.  Make any sense?


My experiences and what I've seen here would say yes.  I've also had info from sales that reinforced that thought even when it was not related to a sales process.  Anecdotal from TUG would go along with that thought.  I looked through the ROFR thread, of the last 50 EOY, only 3 failed.  Two Desert springs White weeks and one HL Gold week.


----------



## Luvtoride

GregT said:


> **** 5/1/16 - This link to the current, active ROFR database is added with the OP's permission: ROFR Experiences (www.rofr.net) ****
> 
> All,
> 
> I have had a few PMs asking me to compute ROFR metrics for various offers, which I am happy to do, and also asking for the history of this _unofficial _metric. The following thread is where we collected the data (such as it is).
> 
> I've taken the Points Value spreadsheet that TUGgers helped compile a couple of years back, and computed the ROFR metric for all weeks.
> 
> Accordingly, the attached is a hypothetical price of what should clear ROFR, if the metric can predict a ROFR exercise.
> 
> Please note, this approach is imperfect and I would hate to see a TUGger increase their bid based solely on this -- please make an offer price of what the week is worth to you. And please consult with a broker on what has been passing ROFR lately, they will have the most current information.
> 
> Anyone can compute their own ROFR metric:
> 
> 1) Start with the DC Points that the underlying week is worth (example: 3,000 DC Points)
> 2) Multiply #1 by $10 per point (representing how much Marriott can sell the related points for if they ROFR it and deposit to the Trust -- example: 3,000 * $10/point = $30,000)
> 3) Take your Offer Price ($5,000?) and divide it by the result of #2 (example: $5,000 / $30,000 = 16.6%)
> 4) The resulting percentage will likely be between 5% - 35%.
> 
> My theory is that weeks where #4 is less than 23% have a greater probability of not passing ROFR than if #4 is greater than 23%. It is based on the linked thread up above.
> 
> I welcome comments, corrections and more recent data. Good luck!
> 
> Best,
> 
> Greg



Greg, thanks for maintaining this…it is very helpful. I guess its only as good as the members who post their experiences here. 
At a sales presentation at Marriott Aruba Ocean Club today, the closing Sales Manager used ROFR as a “threat” to trying to buy resale. Interesting that the most recent Ocean Club sale (3/31/22) listed at $17,000 for a 2 bedroom Platinum week “failed”. Since they are reselling these for almost $50,000, I guess its a pretty good investment for MVC to be scooping these up at that price. 
Thanks again. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## TXTortoise

Luvtoride said:


> Greg, thanks for maintaining this…it is very helpful. I guess its only as good as the members who post their experiences here.
> At a sales presentation at Marriott Aruba Ocean Club today, the closing Sales Manager used ROFR as a “threat” to trying to buy resale. Interesting that the most recent Ocean Club sale (3/31/22) listed at $17,000 for a 2 bedroom Platinum week “failed”. Since they are reselling these for almost $50,000, I guess its a pretty good investment for MVC to be scooping these up at that price.
> Thanks again.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk



I believe Dioxide is the owner/page manager for ROFR.net. 

Greg developed the ROFR pass/fail metric based on how many Destination Points a particular week is worth, e.g., a MOC Lahaina 2BR OF is worth 7475 points.  So if MVCI takes it under ROFR at $29,900, that would mean they are paying about $4/point to put it in the trust.  (Historically we have seen those units have to be $30K-$32K to pass). That's much higher than they can ROFR points for. That said, ROFR is a wild card and units in resorts like MOC OF may be worth more to them to get them in the Trust.


----------



## kyaustin

MVC passed on Grand Chateau 2BR EOY at $1900, just found out today.  It took about a week to hear back.  I'll add it to ROFR.net.


----------



## larryallen

Bought several KOBC 2 BR OV this year between January and May.

$10k x 2 - different sellers but both bought in May
$11,500 x 1
$12k x 1
$12,500 x 1

Also, a EOY 2 br OV odd - $5k

All passed.


----------



## Norcal5

Maui Ocean Club Lahaina and Napili Villas fixed week 6 Oceanfront   $35,000  passed on 4/28/2022, just posted on ROFR.net


----------



## RookWDW

Marriott Grande Chateau - 2 bed platinum EY $2,995.  Passed ROFR on  5/26/22.   Offer accepted on April 20th.  Closed July 12th.  I have yet to get an email from MVC.  Seems to have taking a long time to process.  This was listed by Redweek agents.

Now ... what to get next


----------



## anthonycasta

My ROFR came back in less then a week ... 

About 6 weeks to close? Did you use dedicated timeshare to close?


----------



## jmhpsu93

RookWDW said:


> Marriott Grande Chateau - 2 bed platinum EY $2,995.  Passed ROFR on  5/26/22.   Offer accepted on April 20th.  Closed July 12th.  I have yet to get an email from MVC.  Seems to have taking a long time to process.  This was listed by Redweek agents.
> 
> Now ... what to get next


Expect 5-7 weeks to add to your MVC account, down from like 8-10 earlier this year.


----------



## kelly4me

Marriott exercised ROFR on 8/10/22 on our Marriott Lakeshore Reserve property, 3BR lock-off at $6,000 sale price.  Sort of shocked since they were not interested in buying it back from us directly.


----------



## dioxide45

kelly4me said:


> Marriott exercised ROFR on 8/10/22 on our Marriott Lakeshore Reserve property, 3BR lock-off at $6,000 sale price.  Sort of shocked since they were not interested in buying it back from us directly.


What season?


----------



## kelly4me

@dioxide45 , Regular platinum - week 1-5, 18-52.

They canceled our July 4th week reservation before I had heard anything about ROFR.  That tipped me off.


----------



## dioxide45

kelly4me said:


> @dioxide45 , Regular platinum - week 1-5, 18-52.
> 
> They canceled our July 4th week reservation before I had heard anything about ROFR.  That tipped me off.


That seems like a pretty good price. I know someone that bought a 3BR Platinum Lakeshore a few years ago for about $3,500.


----------



## Dean

kelly4me said:


> Marriott exercised ROFR on 8/10/22 on our Marriott Lakeshore Reserve property, 3BR lock-off at $6,000 sale price.  Sort of shocked since they were not interested in buying it back from us directly.





dioxide45 said:


> That seems like a pretty good price. I know someone that bought a 3BR Platinum Lakeshore a few years ago for about $3,500.


I'm surprised they took it due to price, I am not surprised they paid more ROFR than they would have paid direct, I think that's a normal outcome.  I assume there were no other incentives in the sales contract.


----------



## SkyBornDancer

Marriott's Ko Olina Beach Club
Annual 2B oceanview Week 52
Passed 32,000 on 7/19/2022

(I added this to rofr.net)


----------



## kelly4me

Dean said:


> I'm surprised they took it due to price, I am not surprised they paid more ROFR than they would have paid direct, I think that's a normal outcome.  I assume there were no other incentives in the sales contract.



None.  The buyer was to pay all of their costs.  Grateful for that as I would have been really irritated to pay them for Marriott.


----------



## SteelerGal

Marriott Harbor Lake Platinum 2bdrm.  Passed ROFR yesterday.  $1.00


----------



## jmhpsu93

SteelerGal said:


> Marriott Harbor Lake Platinum 2bdrm.  Passed ROFR yesterday.  $1.00


Nice pickup.


----------



## jwalk03

SteelerGal said:


> Marriott Harbor Lake Platinum 2bdrm.  Passed ROFR yesterday.  $1.00



Nice!


----------



## dioxide45

SteelerGal said:


> Marriott Harbor Lake Platinum 2bdrm.  Passed ROFR yesterday.  $1.00


Where did you buy it? I wonder if the seller/broker (if it was EBay or Redweek) didn't bake in some fees/commissions and the price actually submitted to Marriott wasn't more than $1?


----------



## The Colorado Kid

dioxide45 said:


> Where did you buy it? I wonder if the seller/broker (if it was EBay or Redweek) didn't bake in some fees/commissions and the price actually submitted to Marriott wasn't more than $1?


I also bought a Harbour Lake 2BR Platinum on eBay in January...$130 which passed ROFR.


----------



## SteelerGal

dioxide45 said:


> Where did you buy it? I wonder if the seller/broker (if it was EBay or Redweek) didn't bake in some fees/commissions and the price actually submitted to Marriott wasn't more than $1?


I have a feeling something like that happened since it was off of EBay.  I had a couple of Desert Platinum weeks ROFR at market price so I was happy w/ this acquisition.


----------



## Alwaystravelling

My purchase of an every year, 2BR ocean view Marriott Waiohai just passed ROFR at $8,000


----------



## michael49

Alwaystravelling said:


> My purchase of an every year, 2BR ocean view Marriott Waiohai just passed ROFR at $8,000


Congratulations! I think you will love Waiohai. We are longtime owners and will be back next February.


----------



## Ozznato

Hi team, new here looking at an MVC points purchase Resale.  I've looked over ROFR.net and it seems to be a near crapshoot in the ability to get past ROFR on points (with some exceptions).  We'd probably look for something around 3500 points, with a goal of $4pp, $7net when factoring Marriott's fee.  Doesn't seem like there is much rhyme or reason to it.  Should we just start pumping out $4pp offers and wait for one to get through?


----------



## Fasttr

Ozznato said:


> Hi team, new here looking at an MVC points purchase Resale.  I've looked over ROFR.net and it seems to be a near crapshoot in the ability to get past ROFR on points (with some exceptions).  We'd probably look for something around 3500 points, with a goal of $4pp, $7net when factoring Marriott's fee.  Doesn't seem like there is much rhyme or reason to it.  Should we just start pumping out $4pp offers and wait for one to get through?


Or even try one at $3.50 and see if you can get one past the goalie.

And welcome to TUG.  Stick around, its a great place to learn and bounce ideas off of one another.


----------



## Ozznato

Fasttr said:


> Or even try one at $3.50 and see if you can get one past the goalie.
> 
> And welcome to TUG.  Stick around, its a great place to learn and bounce ideas off of one another.



Thanks for having me.  I've been dabbling in a DVC board  as my parents were looking to jump in there.  I'm trying to get a proposal together to show them how other options might be more advantageous.  I think MVC would be an easy sell to them if we were able to come in at $4pp, $7net for 3500 points.  Honestly seems so weird that MVC has priced their direct market so out of line with resale.  Is it really just to get people who won't do the research?  Assuming ROFR.net is accurate they regularly let point sales slip through below $4pp (though I guess it does not disclose the size of the transaction) but deny others.  $3.90 failed 8/4/22, $3.75 passed 6/1/22.  So weird to me.


----------



## dioxide45

Ozznato said:


> Thanks for having me.  I've been dabbling in a DVC board  as my parents were looking to jump in there.  I'm trying to get a proposal together to show them how other options might be more advantageous.  I think MVC would be an easy sell to them if we were able to come in at $4pp, $7net for 3500 points.  Honestly seems so weird that MVC has priced their direct market so out of line with resale.  Is it really just to get people who won't do the research?  Assuming ROFR.net is accurate they regularly let point sales slip through below $4pp (though I guess it does not disclose the size of the transaction) but deny others.  $3.90 failed 8/4/22, $3.75 passed 6/1/22.  So weird to me.


ROFR.net is just a general guide, but there are other things that go into Marriott's decision to exercise or not. They may pay more for something with a ful 2023 use year than one where the owner has borrowed points to 2022 and used them for a reservation.

As to the difference in price between resale and direct. The same is true in DVC and every other timeshare out there. Timeshares when sold by the developer are a sold product. Few people walk into a presentation with the plan to walk out as owners. They are sold the product they didn't plan to buy. Rarely do they know anything about the resale market. Timeshares on the resale market is more of a supply vs. demand. Far more people want out of their timeshares than there are people looking to buy them.


----------



## kyaustin

Marriott Grande Vista 3 BR EOY Odd, Platinum, first usage 2023

passed Marriott ROFR at $2100

I’ll add to ROFR.net


----------



## The Colorado Kid

kyaustin said:


> Marriott Grande Vista 3 BR EOY Odd, first usage 2023
> 
> passed Marriott ROFR at $2100
> 
> I’ll add to ROFR.net


Was it assigned a specific season?


----------



## JimmyQ

Hi Everyone... new here.  Wanted to know if Marriott buys back points from foreign/international sellers, or if those are typically waived?


----------



## kyaustin

The Colorado Kid said:


> Was it assigned a specific season?



High season


----------



## kyaustin

The Colorado Kid said:


> Was it assigned a specific season?



Platinum, I meant


----------



## curitiba_tapley

With many saying that US is in recession (and maybe we wait one more quarter for it to become official), do you believe that MVC will lower ROFR guidelines (e.g., waive their right?)  My thought is that we should see more intervals on the market as owners tighten belts and avoid paying MF, and the number of people buying direct would also drop.  I suspect that many who watch resale, and have the means may swoop in and purchase.  Finally, I suspect that MVC doesn't want to see its balance sheet blow up with inventory.  Thoughts?  Perspectives from those buying and selling during other recessionary periods (e.g., 2008 - 2009)?


----------



## MOXJO7282

curitiba_tapley said:


> With many saying that US is in recession (and maybe we wait one more quarter for it to become official), do you believe that MVC will lower ROFR guidelines (e.g., waive their right?)  My thought is that we should see more intervals on the market as owners tighten belts and avoid paying MF, and the number of people buying direct would also drop.  I suspect that many who watch resale, and have the means may swoop in and purchase.  Finally, I suspect that MVC doesn't want to see its balance sheet blow up with inventory.  Thoughts?  Perspectives from those buying and selling during other recessionary periods (e.g., 2008 - 2009)?


I don't believe so. Much different scenario than 2008 where millions were out of work and desperately needed to dump their weeks. Unless that changes in this "recession" I don't think you will see the desperation that was present in 2009. Especially for the high demand locations, I just don't think we'll see much price erosion.


----------



## BJRSanDiego

MOXJO7282 said:


> I don't believe so. Much different scenario than 2008 where millions were out of work and desperately needed to dump their weeks. Unless that changes in this "recession" I don't think you will see the desperation that was present in 2009. Especially for the high demand locations, I just don't think we'll see much price erosion.


In 2008 or 2009 I bought a Marriott Desert Springs II white week for $297 and it passed ROFR.


----------



## JIMinNC

curitiba_tapley said:


> With many saying that US is in recession (and maybe we wait one more quarter for it to become official), do you believe that MVC will lower ROFR guidelines (e.g., waive their right?)  My thought is that we should see more intervals on the market as owners tighten belts and avoid paying MF, and the number of people buying direct would also drop.  I suspect that many who watch resale, and have the means may swoop in and purchase.  Finally, I suspect that MVC doesn't want to see its balance sheet blow up with inventory.  Thoughts?  Perspectives from those buying and selling during other recessionary periods (e.g., 2008 - 2009)?





MOXJO7282 said:


> I don't believe so. Much different scenario than 2008 where millions were out of work and desperately needed to dump their weeks. Unless that changes in this "recession" I don't think you will see the desperation that was present in 2009. Especially for the high demand locations, I just don't think we'll see much price erosion.



I tend to agree with @MOXJO7282 ...despite what the technical numbers say about recession (two consecutive quarters with lower GDP) by most other measures, we are not there yet. Unemployment is still at a historic low and the job market is still very tight. While unemployment claims have recently ticked up slightly, as long as the labor shortages are as acute as they have been since the pandemic, almost anyone who loses a job should be able to get a new one fairly easily, at least right now. Demand in the economy is still strong (many economists say too strong), so unless/until that changes, I doubt there will be much impact to timeshare demand/ROFR. Marriott Vacations Worldwide just reported 2Q earnings that were up 40% year-over-year. That's not an environment where pulling back on ROFR is likely.


----------



## sponger76

I'm very surprised, but a Mountain Valley Lodge 1BR Silver week just passed ROFR. Price was FREE, and seller paying all closing costs.


----------



## TheTimeTraveler

curitiba_tapley said:


> With many saying that US is in recession (and maybe we wait one more quarter for it to become official), do you believe that MVC will lower ROFR guidelines (e.g., waive their right?)  My thought is that we should see more intervals on the market as owners tighten belts and avoid paying MF, and the number of people buying direct would also drop.  I suspect that many who watch resale, and have the means may swoop in and purchase.  Finally, I suspect that MVC doesn't want to see its balance sheet blow up with inventory.  Thoughts?  Perspectives from those buying and selling during other recessionary periods (e.g., 2008 - 2009)?




Actually, the real question is will folks be able to afford and make their December 2022 or January 2023 maintenance fees?  If so then there will not be a flood of units on the market for sale.

On the other hand, if folks can't make their payments then you'll start to see a lot more units for sale, and Marriott may relax their current ROFR threshold as they have traditionally have done in the past.   Marriott can only afford to buy back so many units depending on their cash flow........




.


----------



## pacman777

sponger76 said:


> I'm very surprised, but a Mountain Valley Lodge 1BR Silver week just passed ROFR. Price was FREE, and seller paying all closing costs.


Any season in Colorado that isn’t ski or summer (June to mid-Aug) is actually a liability in terms of maintenance fees. You can rent or book direct with Marriott hotel site for the same timeshare or better for much cheaper than maintenance fees on per night basis.


----------



## JIMinNC

TheTimeTraveler said:


> Actually, the real question is will folks be able to afford and make their December 2022 or January 2023 maintenance fees?  If so then there will not be a flood of units on the market for sale.
> 
> On the other hand, if folks can't make their payments then you'll start to see a lot more units for sale, and Marriott may relax their current ROFR threshold as they have traditionally have done in the past.   Marriott can only afford to buy back so many units depending on their cash flow........
> .



One thing MVC always mentions in their earnings calls when questions about the economy come up in the Q&A is the relative affluence of their owner base. They always say the more affluent MVC owner profile generally fares much better than average during economic  difficulties. The 2008-2010 financial crisis was somewhat of an exception to the norm, though. While we haven’t had inflation like the current surge since MVC timeshares have been in business, most of the things I’ve read from economists about current expectations is similar in that they don’t expect people in the MVC target demographic tier to be impacted as much as some other tiers.


----------



## sponger76

pacman777 said:


> Any season in Colorado that isn’t ski or summer (June to mid-Aug) is actually a liability in terms of maintenance fees. You can rent or book direct with Marriott hotel site for the same timeshare or better for much cheaper than maintenance fees on per night basis.


Yeah, the maintenance fees are a little steep, but even with a Silver float, there are some decent weeks I can book that make it worth it to me.


----------



## RookWDW

Marriott Grande Ocean - 2 bed Gold EY Ocean Side.  $3,500. Passed ROFR on 8/26/22. Offer accepted on 8/17/2220th. Buying direct from the owner and using a law firm that MVC recommended to file the closing docs.  Closing fee is $327 (split with seller) plus the MVC fees.


----------



## The Colorado Kid

RookWDW said:


> Marriott Grande Ocean - 2 bed Gold EY Ocean Side.  $3,500. Passed ROFR on 8/26/22. Offer accepted on 8/17/2220th. Buying direct from the owner and using a law firm that MVC recommended to file the closing docs.  Closing fee is $327 (split with seller) plus the MVC fees.


@RookWDW Well-played!


----------



## GNS

RookWDW said:


> Marriott Grande Ocean - 2 bed Gold EY Ocean Side.  $3,500. Passed ROFR on 8/26/22. Offer accepted on 8/17/2220th. Buying direct from the owner and using a law firm that MVC recommended to file the closing docs.  Closing fee is $327 (split with seller) plus the MVC fees.



If I'm reading it right, it took 9 days for MVC to respond on ROFR?  thanks


----------



## RookWDW

GNS said:


> If I'm reading it right, it took 9 days for MVC to respond on ROFR?  thanks



Correct.  the Seller just called them direct and they walked her through the process.


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## grupp

I recently had a 2Br week 52 at Timber Lodge Lake Tahoe pass at $25,000. Submitted 8/4/22 and response on 8/10/22.


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## GNS

RookWDW said:


> Correct.  the Seller just called them direct and they walked her through the process.



We got our waiver from Marriott within few days... now going through the final process of the contract... we offered $20k for MGO OceanFront Platinum and passed ROFR... I also updated ROFR.net website with the information.


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## ljlong15

I was hoping my purchase from EBay would go through for an annual Gold Week back bldg with ocean view--think it was the 9th floor.  I won the EBay bid for $1,650.  Not surprised but was hoping. Do you think they look up the name buying it---I already have 2 Marriott's I purchased on re-sale.


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## ljlong15

Opps it was for MOW in Myrtle Beach


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## SkyBornDancer

Maui Ocean Club - Lahaina and Napili Villas  
Platinum Annual 
2BR Ocean Front 
$29,000.00 Passed on 6/24/2022 (added to ROFR)


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## TXTortoise

SkyBornDancer said:


> Maui Ocean Club - Lahaina and Napili Villas
> Platinum Annual
> 2BR Ocean Front
> $29,000.00 Passed on 6/24/2022 (added to ROFR)



that may be the lowest I’ve heard of and sets a new bar for ROFR. Really surprised they didn’t take it, unless net price to them was higher.

I got a broker offer for a Lahaina OV at $20k this week, which I thought was low.


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## HDiaz1

Marriott Grand Chateau $3,594 all in 
Platinum 2 bedroom annual 
Passed on 8/18/2022


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## JIMinNC

TXTortoise said:


> that may be the lowest I’ve heard of and sets a new bar for ROFR. Really surprised they didn’t take it, unless net price to them was higher.
> 
> I got a broker offer for a Lahaina OV at $20k this week, which I thought was low.



Wow, indeed. Someone got a great deal. 

Were you selling the OV? I didn’t think you owned any OV.


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## TXTortoise

JIMinNC said:


> Wow, indeed. Someone got a great deal.
> 
> Were you selling the OV? I didn’t think you owned any OV.


Broker was trying to sell me an OV. Not in the market.


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## SkyBornDancer

TXTortoise said:


> that may be the lowest I’ve heard of and sets a new bar for ROFR. Really surprised they didn’t take it, unless net price to them was higher.
> 
> I got a broker offer for a Lahaina OV at $20k this week, which I thought was low.



Thank you. I was also expecting them to take it. But they didn't. I wonder if part of it was that it was a foreign seller. Took forever to finalize and close


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## TXTortoise

SkyBornDancer said:


> Thank you. I was also expecting them to take it. But they didn't. I wonder if part of it was that it was a foreign seller. Took forever to finalize and close


Good data point, possibly. Historically, I’ve always used $30k-$32k as the threshold for floating Lahaina/Napili 2BR OF.


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## Huskerpaul

Marriott Willow Ridge $2,859 all-in
Platinum 2 bedroom annual
Passed on 9/21/2022


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## a2zkid11

I once asked for all documentation out of curiosity.  I do not know how prevalent this is but  I had a discrepancy on purchase price and ROFR.  Here was the reply.   “Yes, you are correct.  In certain cases we will increase the price we submit to help the odds of Marriott waiving and allowing the transfer to go through to the new owners.  ” .


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## Avulasai

Team - what about ROFR on resale of Marriott points ? I attended a Marriott presentation today , they were offering me for $16.50 per point . I am evaluating if I should points in the resale market


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## jwalk03

Avulasai said:


> Team - what about ROFR on resale of Marriott points ? I attended a Marriott presentation today , they were offering me for $16.50 per point . I am evaluating if I should points in the resale market



Points typically pass ROFR at $3-$4/pt.  There is the additional $3/pt fee to Marriott- so you can get resale points for $6-$7/pt all-in.  A significant savings over the Marriott direct price.


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## Avulasai

jwalk03 said:


> Points typically pass ROFR at $3-$4/pt.  There is the additional $3/pt fee to Marriott- so you can get resale points for $6-$7/pt all-in.  A significant savings over the Marriott direct price.


What are the downsides if any by buying this way? Really appreciate your feedback and insight. I guess why not Marriott do something to stop it ? The sales presentation indicated points bought on resale market would not get other benefits… frankly if I don’t become a vip or chairman club, I don’t care. As long as I can book and rent trade as
If I bought directly from
Marriott


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## vacationtime1

Avulasai said:


> What are the downsides if any by buying this way? Really appreciate your feedback and insight. I guess why not Marriott do something to stop it ? The sales presentation indicated points bought on resale market would not get other benefits… frankly if I don’t become a vip or chairman club, *I don’t care. As long as I can book and rent trade as
> If I bought directly from
> Marriott*


You can book, rent, or trade resale points identically to those purchased from Marriott -- once you pay its $3/point extortion education fee.

The salesperson's half-truth is that the "other benefits" require payment of that $3/point fee.  But once it is paid, you are good to go.


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## jwalk03

Avulasai said:


> What are the downsides if any by buying this way? Really appreciate your feedback and insight. I guess why not Marriott do something to stop it ? The sales presentation indicated points bought on resale market would not get other benefits… frankly if I don’t become a vip or chairman club, I don’t care. As long as I can book and rent trade as
> If I bought directly from
> Marriott



Nothing.  Once you pay Marriott their fee the points function exactly the same as points bought from Marriott.  Ignore the sales lies about those mystery "benefits" that don't apply.


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## jwalk03

Marriott's Grande Vista, 2BR Platinum, $3250, passed ROFR.


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## l0410z

Avulasai said:


> What are the downsides if any by buying this way? Really appreciate your feedback and insight. I guess why not Marriott do something to stop it ? The sales presentation indicated points bought on resale market would not get other benefits… frankly if I don’t become a vip or chairman club, I don’t care. As long as I can book and rent trade as
> If I bought directly from
> Marriott


One down side you will need to figure out what to do with the money your saved.


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## emoneybug

Marriott Manor Club Sequel 2 Bed Lockoff Platinum floating week just got the notice that $200 got taken in ROFR ...listed on Redweek for $200 every year contract, if another one lists that low, I may offer $500 to $750 to see if that passes.


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## grupp

emoneybug said:


> Marriott Manor Club Sequel 2 Bed Lockoff Platinum floating week just got the notice that $200 got taken in ROFR ...listed on Redweek for $200 every year contract, if another one lists that low, I may offer $500 to $750 to see if that passes.



I had 2br Plat Lock-off pass at $500 in the fall of 2021, which included closing costs and free use of the 2021 week. So, maybe you may not be far off. I was able to trade the 2021 week for Ko Olina and leave on that trip in 2 days


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## emoneybug

grupp said:


> I had 2br Plat Lock-off pass at $500 in the fall of 2021, which included closing costs and free use of the 2021 week. So, maybe you may not be far off. I was able to trade the 2021 week for Ko Olina and leave on that trip in 2 days



Wow that's a great deal you got!  Redweek fees are high too as I had +550 + 120 + 99 so all in would have been around $969 for me ...do feel kind of bummed Marriott took it.


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## jwalk03

Marriott's Grande Vista, 2BR Platinum, $2000, passed ROFR.


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## The Colorado Kid

jwalk03 said:


> Marriott's Grande Vista, 2BR Platinum, $2000, passed ROFR.


Annual?


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## jwalk03

The Colorado Kid said:


> Annual?



Yes!  I was surprised it passed and it only took 2 days for a response.


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## MOXJO7282

Maui Ocean Club Napili Towers 3BDRM 7th floor week 17 PASSED at $50k.


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## wakesurfer

Marriott Grand Chateau 2 BR Annual Platinum Failed ROFR at $2,021.  Signed sales agreement on 10/25/22 and got the ROFR letter on 11/3/2022.  Went through LT Transfers as a private transaction.


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## wakesurfer

Marriott Grande Vista 2 BR Annual Gold PASSED ROFR at $3,000.  Sent to Marriott on 10/12/22 and got the ROFR letter on 10/27/2022. Purchased on eBay through broker.


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## michael49

wakesurfer said:


> Marriott Grand Chateau 2 BR Annual Platinum Failed ROFR at $2,021.  Signed sales agreement on 10/25/22 and got the ROFR letter on 11/3/2022.  Went through LT Transfers as a private transaction.


Be sure to add both of your items to ROFR.net


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## Jpollo

Two Marriott Waiohai Annual Ocean Views, each passed ROFR at $14,000.  Went into Escrow on 10/20/2022, Marriott waived ROFR 10/28/2022.  Not mine, but posting for my non-Tugger buddy.

Added to rofr.net.


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## SocalIB

Ko Olina Beach Club. EOY Odd $5500 passed ROFR


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## frank808

SocalIB said:


> Ko Olina Beach Club. EOY Odd $5500 passed ROFR


Ocean view or island view?

Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk


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## wakesurfer

michael49 said:


> Be sure to add both of your items to ROFR.net


Yes I did add them.


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## SocalIB

frank808 said:


> Ocean view or island view?
> 
> Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk


Ocean View


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## frank808

Thanks

Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk


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## ecassidy6

_[*Moderator Note*: Post merged into ongoing Marriott ROFR thread.] <-- SueDonJ_

We submitted final paperwork and assumed we were going to be owners of a two bedroom unit at Marriotts Manor Club in Fords Colony. We already own one unit at this resort. This morning we received notification from Redweek that Marriott had ‘exercised the right of first refusal‘ and was buying the unit back. Has anyone experienced this same issue?


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## bnoble

Lots and lots and lots of people.








						ROFR metric / Ongoing ROFR Activity
					

*** 5/1/16 - This link to the current, active ROFR database is added with the OP's permission:  ROFR Experiences (www.rofr.net) ***  All,  I have had a few PMs asking me to compute ROFR metrics for various offers, which I am happy to do, and also asking for the history of this unofficial metric...




					tugbbs.com


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## HudsHut

Yes, about 6 years ago, our first Marriott purchase was taken via ROFR. Just find another listing, and bid again. Don't assume you have to increase your price. Marriott may take one and not take another. Many times there is no logic that is apparent from our perspective as buyers. See the database listed above. Add your data to it.  Good Luck on your next attempt.


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## lmnanea

P


wakesurfer said:


> Marriott Grand Chateau 2 BR Annual Platinum Failed ROFR at $2,021.  Signed sales agreement on 10/25/22 and got the ROFR letter on 11/3/2022.  Went through LT Transfers as a private transaction.


ls explain what it means to have failed ROFR and went through LT transfer


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## jmhpsu93

lmnanea said:


> P
> 
> ls explain what it means to have failed ROFR and went through LT transfer


You purchase a resale from a private party (maybe a Tugger), they utilized LT Transfers (a closing company) to process the sale / deed recording etc.  During the closing process they are required to submit the sale information to Marriott through their ROFR (right of first refusal) process.  MVC chooses to exercise their right, which effectively replaces you with MVC as the buyer in the transaction and I believe they take over the closing as well.


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## jwalk03

ecassidy6 said:


> _[*Moderator Note*: Post merged into ongoing Marriott ROFR thread.] <-- SueDonJ_
> 
> We submitted final paperwork and assumed we were going to be owners of a two bedroom unit at Marriotts Manor Club in Fords Colony. We already own one unit at this resort. This morning we received notification from Redweek that Marriott had ‘exercised the right of first refusal‘ and was buying the unit back. Has anyone experienced this same issue?



How much were you paying for the unit?


----------



## jmhpsu93

2BR Platinum annual Harbour Lake $15.50 passed ROFR.  So basically free. Commitment included 2023 maintenace fees and usage (which was actually 2022 maintenance fees) so they paid me to take it as 2023 MFs are about $100 more in 2023.


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## DanCali

jmhpsu93 said:


> 2BR Platinum annual Harbour Lake $15.50 passed ROFR.  So basically free. Commitment included 2023 maintenace fees and usage (which was actually 2022 maintenance fees) so they paid me to take it as 2023 MFs are about $100 more in 2023.



That's the kind of stuff I don't get - why wouldn't they pick it up for free at ROFR and put in the trust and sell as points? It's probably worth 2500 election points? That'd be $40K for them on the bottom line.


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## BJRSanDiego

DanCali said:


> That's the kind of stuff I don't get - why wouldn't they pick it up for free at ROFR and put in the trust and sell as points? It's probably worth 2500 election points? That'd be $40K for them on the bottom line.


It is just a guess on my part but I think that (1) they have a target for how much unsold inventory they want to carry and (2) there is or may be a cost of holding that inventory - - the maintenance fees or conversely, if they pass on the ROFR someone else will be contributing to the MF.


----------



## jmhpsu93

BJRSanDiego said:


> It is just a guess on my part but I think that (1) they have a target for how much unsold inventory they want to carry and (2) there is or may be a cost of holding that inventory - - the maintenance fees or conversely, if they pass on the ROFR someone else will be contributing to the MF.


Agreed.

My guess is that they don't go after marginial value weeks during ROFR process, and maybe they have a target amount of inventory in mind and a 2500 point week isn't worth the effort.  And they would have to write a check for $1600-ish to the seller to repay them for money already brought into th MVC fold so to speak.  

I get it - it seems ridiculous that they would EVER let a week pass ROFR at less than like $2/point resale value, but maybe they just have so much unsold inventory they just cherry pick.


----------



## dioxide45

DanCali said:


> That's the kind of stuff I don't get - why wouldn't they pick it up for free at ROFR and put in the trust and sell as points? It's probably worth 2500 election points? That'd be $40K for them on the bottom line.


I suspect there is more to the price than meets the eye. If this was an Ebay deal, the price that was submitted for ROFR may be far different than just the ending auction price. The same could be true for a broker deal.


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## Dean

jmhpsu93 said:


> 2BR Platinum annual Harbour Lake $15.50 passed ROFR.  So basically free. Commitment included 2023 maintenace fees and usage (which was actually 2022 maintenance fees) so they paid me to take it as 2023 MFs are about $100 more in 2023.


Closing costs?  Like dioxide45, I suspect there's more to this.  In the past I've had good weeks that were truly free including closing and in a couple of cases, where I got the first years week either free or for a much reduced amount but I haven't seen that situation personally for a while, at least that made it through ROFR.  


DanCali said:


> That's the kind of stuff I don't get - why wouldn't they pick it up for free at ROFR and put in the trust and sell as points? It's probably worth 2500 election points? That'd be $40K for them on the bottom line.


For a Platinum HL week, I'd agree.  One of the weeks I referenced above was for a HL Platinum that was actually free closing, I got the next years week included and the price was about 70% of the Main fees.  The reality is that frequently the first years week has lower value to the buyer as well.   The lower the week value, the less likely they are to take it.  Plus they likely have a monthly or quarterly budget for such acquisitions.  I'm sure things have slowed down for sales like most things now and they want to limit their inventory because of Maintenance fees and sales projections.


----------



## jmhpsu93

Dean said:


> Closing costs?  Like dioxide45, I suspect there's more to this.  In the past I've had good weeks that were truly free including closing and in a couple of cases, where I got the first years week either free or for a much reduced amount but I haven't seen that situation personally for a while, at least that made it through ROFR.
> 
> For a Platinum HL week, I'd agree.  One of the weeks I referenced above was for a HL Platinum that was actually free closing, I got the next years week included and the price was about 70% of the Main fees.  The reality is that frequently the first years week has lower value to the buyer as well.   The lower the week value, the less likely they are to take it.  Plus they likely have a monthly or quarterly budget for such acquisitions.  I'm sure things have slowed down for sales like most things now and they want to limit their inventory because of Maintenance fees and sales projections.



Closing costs paid by seller.  

@Dean I think I was pretty transparent about what the transaction was.  $15.50 plus 2022 maintenance fees for 2023 usage (which I asked about before bidding on Ebay).  I've bought from the seller before so I knew it was legit.

I really believe for marignal value weeks MVC doesn't want to write checks.


----------



## dioxide45

jmhpsu93 said:


> Closing costs paid by seller.
> 
> @Dean I think I was pretty transparent about what the transaction was.  $15.50 plus 2022 maintenance fees for 2023 usage (which I asked about before bidding on Ebay).  I've bought from the seller before so I knew it was legit.
> 
> I really believe for marignal value weeks MVC doesn't want to write checks.


No one is doubting what the offer and transaction was, but did you personally see the ROFR paperwork or waiver that came back? Unless you did, there is no telling what they actually submitted. They have a tendency to lump in certain other "costs".


----------



## Dean

jmhpsu93 said:


> Closing costs paid by seller.
> 
> @Dean I think I was pretty transparent about what the transaction was.  $15.50 plus 2022 maintenance fees for 2023 usage (which I asked about before bidding on Ebay).  I've bought from the seller before so I knew it was legit.
> 
> I really believe for marignal value weeks MVC doesn't want to write checks.


Thanks for clarifying.  No doubt they don't want to stock up on marginal weeks and HL Platinum is likely on the edge for them.  I'm sure they look at it similarly to we do in terms of finances.  But I think they have more variables to look at including their budget for such purchases and that also impacts their ROFR decisions.


----------



## jmhpsu93

dioxide45 said:


> No one is doubting what the offer and transaction was, but did you personally see the ROFR paperwork or waiver that came back? Unless you did, there is no telling what they actually submitted. They have a tendency to lump in certain other "costs".





Dean said:


> Thanks for clarifying.  No doubt they don't want to stock up on marginal weeks and HL Platinum is likely on the edge for them.  I'm sure they look at it similarly to we do in terms of finances.  But I think they have more variables to look at including their budget for such purchases and that also impacts their ROFR decisions.



Here is the purchase agreement section that the closing agent said Marriott required to review the sale...I don't think they submitted anything else AFAIK.


----------



## dioxide45

deleted


----------



## Dean

jmhpsu93 said:


> Here is the purchase agreement section that the closing agent said Marriott required to review the sale...I don't think they submitted anything else AFAIK.
> 
> View attachment 70020


Thanks for sharing the data point.


----------



## dioxide45

So the all in price was about $1600 with 2023 first use. It is just as likely that first use played a role in their waiver. $15.50 with first use of 2024 may have been more attractive to them.


----------



## jmhpsu93

@dioxide45 are you an admin on ROFR.net?  I chubby-finger-errored an entry (and entered it twice).  The one that should be deleted is the most recent one.  Thanks!


----------



## dioxide45

jmhpsu93 said:


> @dioxide45 are you an admin on ROFR.net?  I chubby-finger-errored an entry (and entered it twice).  The one that should be deleted is the most recent one.  Thanks!


Can you send me an email through the email address on the contact page? I am away from the computer where I can fix it and will probably forget about this message by the time I am able to do the update.


----------



## lotus921v

2br Grand Chateau lockout just passed ROFR for me at 2K with 2023 MF paid.  First use year 2024


----------



## lotus921v

jmhpsu93 said:


> 2BR Platinum annual Harbour Lake $15.50 passed ROFR.  So basically free. Commitment included 2023 maintenace fees and usage (which was actually 2022 maintenance fees) so they paid me to take it as 2023 MFs are about $100 more in 2023.




I saw you posted that on ROFR!  How did you manage to pick one up at that price?  I’m impressed!


----------



## jmhpsu93

lotus921v said:


> I saw you posted that on ROFR!  How did you manage to pick one up at that price?  I’m impressed!


Ebay.  Harbour Lake resales are pretty common there and I picked up one with no reserve.  I think the key to the low price was the agreement for me to reimburse the seller for 2023 MFs.  Timing, I guess.  I picked up another HL earlier this year that was $799 all-in, and missed out on a week 52 (better if we later enroll) that I think wen't for like $1300 that was gobbled up by MVC.


----------



## DRH90277

Be careful - While there are some bargains out there, the more relevant points to me are the cost of the ongoing maintenance fees coupled with the rental prospects for these bargains.


----------



## Dean

lotus921v said:


> I saw you posted that on ROFR!  How did you manage to pick one up at that price?  I’m impressed!


I picked up one in 2017 for $811 including sale, closing and the next year's week with no reimbursement for the week's maint. fees.  I had a Platinum Plus week ROFR'd in 2018 but it was CHEAP.  HL dues are relative high for a trader but should even out with GV.  It appears that MVC is not exercising ROFR for Platinum weeks there.


----------



## dioxide45

DRH90277 said:


> Be careful - While there are some bargains out there, the more relevant points to me are the cost of the ongoing maintenance fees coupled with the rental prospects for these bargains.


This is certainly true for most of the Orlando weeks. Their utility is really just as a pure Interval trader. For most weeks of the year you can get a getaway for less than half the maintenance fees. It also seems that only resorts that lock off in Orlando have any value of any kind. Royal, Imperial, Sabal Palms and Cypress Harbour regularly have to be given away for free to get rid of them. The maintenance fees at Harbour Lake are also higher than those at Grande Vista and this is why Grande Vista tends to have a higher resale value.


----------



## stslc

Tried to sneak some Points past the goalie at $1.80 and failed.


----------

