# Petition to get Hawaii open again.  Please sign.



## rickandcindy23 (Apr 29, 2020)

Sign the Petition
					

RE-OPEN HAWAII NOW - ENOUGH IS ENOUGH




					chng.it
				




They ask for money, but you don't have to pay anything to sign the petition.  I am sure they do not care about mainlanders much, but I signed it anyway.


----------



## Luanne (Apr 29, 2020)

No.  There are so many incorrect statements in that article and holes in their reasoning.


----------



## zentraveler (Apr 29, 2020)

rickandcindy23 said:


> Sign the Petition
> 
> 
> RE-OPEN HAWAII NOW - ENOUGH IS ENOUGH
> ...



Seriously?? Maybe we should just petition the FDA to approve drugs we think we need. We see how good they are on TV after all...  And we should be entitled to our vacations too, this being a democracy and all. 

This is one of the stupidest voter petitions I have heard about, and I live in San Francisco!!  [Sorry rickandcincy23; I know you did not draft this idea and not challenging your right to sign anything you believe in.]


----------



## rickandcindy23 (Apr 29, 2020)

Our friends on Oahu are suffering because of the lack of tourism.


----------



## Luanne (Apr 29, 2020)

rickandcindy23 said:


> Our friends on Oahu are suffering because of the lack of tourism.


Cindy, all businesses are suffering.  I still think that is a very flawed petition.


----------



## Fredflintstone (Apr 29, 2020)

Even if Hawaii opens up, the global systems will still keep visitors away. Here are just some items.

Airlines reduced to almost zero. Most can’t reach Hawaii without air travel.
Fear. Sadly, people are afraid to be near anyone. Thank you Media.
Money. 30 million unemployed just in the US. That’s a lot of people who can’t afford to vacation.

They have to open up slowly and smartly for it to bear fruit.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## LisaRex (Apr 29, 2020)

I feel for the people who are out of work.  It's hard enough to endure this pandemic without worrying about paying your bills or destroying your savings.  But I have to chime in, too, that I don't think us asking Hawaii to open before they're ready is productive.  This should be decided on a local level, because it is they who will have to deal with the consequences of allowing people from every corner of the world to invade their homeland.  

It's easy for me because no one wants to visit Ohio.


----------



## lynne (Apr 29, 2020)

LisaRex said:


> I feel for the people who are out of work.  It's hard enough to endure this pandemic without worrying about paying your bills or destroying your savings.  But I have to chime in, too, that I don't think us asking Hawaii to open before they're ready is productive.  This should be decided on a local level, because it is they who will have to deal with the consequences of allowing people from every corner of the world to invade their homeland.
> 
> It's easy for me because no one wants to visit Ohio.


Mahalo for defending Governor Ige on keeping the state closed to visitors.  On Hawaii Island there were four arrests specific to visitors violating the 14-day travel self-quarantine.  This is significant as we have had very few visitors due to the elimination of non-stop flights from the mainland.  Of course, these are only the people who were caught.  

The state will begin opening some businesses in the next few days,  real estate companies, car and truck dealerships, automated service providers, mobile service providers, one-on-one service providers, and all public and private golf courses will soon be able to begin regular operations.   It think it is the right approach to get services for residents up and running before opening services that may bring visitors to our islands before the state is ready.  

I understand the need for tourism for the local economies to get back to business, but if the locals get sick, there is no business and families will suffer more than they are now.


----------



## Pathways (Apr 29, 2020)

LisaRex said:


> This should be decided on a local level, because it is they who will have to deal with the consequences of allowing people from every corner of the world to invade their homeland.



Missing the mark here a little bit. Decided on the local level doesn't mean by the residents who are affected (losing their homes, bankruptcy, hunger), it means the politicians who will only be affected during the next election.  

(Can't help myself here:  more people died from drug overdoses in the Cincinnati area last weekend than have died from Covid in the entire state of Ohio from day one in the 40 and under age group.  And adding the 50 yo and under age group to that and it's not many more -  Total - 22)




lynne said:


> The state will begin opening some businesses in the next few days, real estate companies, car and truck dealerships, automated service providers, mobile service providers, one-on-one service providers, and all public and private golf courses will soon be able to begin regular operations.



Might as well open them all now.  They are not going to have many customers anyway.  Sort of an 'automatic' social distancing result.


----------



## Pathways (Apr 29, 2020)

Luanne said:


> There are so many incorrect statements in that article and holes in their reasoning



Not sure I buy the 80 Degree heat paragraph, with you there.  What of the statistics quoted are incorrect?


----------



## Luanne (Apr 29, 2020)

Pathways said:


> Not sure I buy the 80 Degree heat paragraph, with you there.  What of the statistics quoted are incorrect?


I wasn't speaking to any of the statistics.  I was objecting to the statement about quarantining those over 70.  That assumes everyone over 70 is infected and that those under 70 are not in any danger.


----------



## Pathways (Apr 29, 2020)

Luanne said:


> I wasn't speaking to any of the statistics. I was objecting to the statement about quarantining those over 70. That assumes everyone over 70 is infected and that those under 70 are not in any danger.



Got it.  70 is kinda pushing it.  There are a number of high level academia pushing the '50 and under' number.   There are very few deaths statistically from age 50 and lower unless they have preexisting conditions. They say let anyone under 50 get back to work.  All those who choose can still self isolate. 

The rest of the country will begin opening up this weekend.  Malls in many states. People will continue to die from this, but the hope is at a lower daily rate.
HI is dreaming if they think they will keep this out, unless they plan to keep the state closed for the next 12 months.  If they do that, I shudder to think of the deaths they will deal with from collateral causes.


----------



## Luanne (Apr 29, 2020)

Pathways said:


> The rest of the country will begin opening up this weekend.


Not all of it.  My state has a stay in place through May 15.  I don't think, we're the only one.  In fact by doing some checking, we're not.


----------



## Pathways (Apr 29, 2020)

Luanne said:


> Not all of it. My state has a stay in place through May 15. I don't think, we're the only one. In fact by doing some checking, we're not



Correct.  Definitely not all of it.  The beginning will be slow of course.  Simon Malls says 10 states, 49 malls this weekend.  Can't imagine they will have much business. but who knows.


----------



## GregT (Apr 30, 2020)

rickandcindy23 said:


> Sign the Petition
> 
> 
> RE-OPEN HAWAII NOW - ENOUGH IS ENOUGH
> ...


Cindy,

I signed and I donated a few bucks -- I don't know if any of this makes a difference, but I do hope that Hawaii (and San Diego, and ....others!!) open sooner rather than later.  The world is different now -- masks/social distancing/isolation -- and I am hopeful that we don't destroy the economy too.  Fingers crossed!

Best,

Greg


----------



## Tamaradarann (Apr 30, 2020)

rickandcindy23 said:


> Our friends on Oahu are suffering because of the lack of tourism.



Wow, there are alot of people suffering because of this virus.  Some have lost jobs, some have businesses that are going broke, some can't pay their bills, some are or were very ill, others have died or had loved ones that died.  The only thing that we all can agree on is that we all want this virus to be over.  However, that is NOT going to happen tomorrow.  

The extremes to moving forward go from:  Keep things closed until milestones and testing can reach a certain level which may be impossible to reach for a very long time, to open up everything tomorrow.  Luckily, our leaders are not taking either one of these extremes paths.  The leaders in Hawaii need to be move forward keeping the safety and health of the people and visitors in mind as well as the economy.  Taking one of these extremes is not going to be taken nor worth discussing.


----------



## SmithOp (Apr 30, 2020)

LisaRex said:


> It's easy for me because no one wants to visit Ohio.



LOL, Amen!

I left there almost 50 years ago, never wanting to return.

Springfield South High Wildcats, Class of ‘72. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro


----------



## R.J.C. (Apr 30, 2020)

rickandcindy23 said:


> Sign the Petition
> 
> 
> RE-OPEN HAWAII NOW - ENOUGH IS ENOUGH
> ...



Why? They don't want us there. I'll stay in the US along with my vacation dollars and they can open all that industry they think they will be profitable with. LOL


----------



## rickandcindy23 (Apr 30, 2020)

This large group of petition signers that are on Oahu are marching on the capitol in Honolulu   Hawaii depends on tourism.  Other states don't depend on it as much, but there are other states that are hurting, too.  SC, FL, CA, AZ, MO, MA, many others, and even Colorado, my home state, needs to fill the hotels and the resorts in the mountains and elsewhere.  That is why Governor Jared Polis opened things up in a careful and slow fashion, and good for him.  I usually am not a fan of his, but I sure am becoming a fan.    

Hotel taxes bring in a lot of revenue, and so do visitors with deep pockets (I am not one of the deep pocket spenders, but I do my share of enjoying attractions and restaurants during our travels).


----------



## PigsDad (Apr 30, 2020)

R.J.C. said:


> Why? They don't want us there. *I'll stay in the US* along with my vacation dollars and they can open all that industry they think they will be profitable with. LOL


Not sure if you knew, but last I checked Hawaii *is *in the US.  

Kurt


----------



## buzglyd (Apr 30, 2020)

R.J.C. said:


> Why? They don't want us there. I'll stay in the US along with my vacation dollars and they can open all that industry they think they will be profitable with. LOL



You'll stay in the U.S.? Did Hawaii leave the Union?


----------



## Luanne (Apr 30, 2020)

rickandcindy23 said:


> This large group of petition signers that are on Oahu are marching on the capitol in Honolulu   Hawaii depends on tourism.  Other states don't depend on it as much, but there are other states that are hurting, too.  SC, FL, CA, AZ, MO, MA, many others, and even Colorado, my home state, needs to fill the hotels and the resorts in the mountains and elsewhere.  That is why Governor Jared Polis opened things up in a careful and slow fashion, and good for him.  I usually am not a fan of his, but I sure am becoming a fan.
> 
> Hotel taxes bring in a lot of revenue, and so do visitors with deep pockets (I am not one of the deep pocket spenders, but I do my share of enjoying attractions and restaurants during our travels).


Yes Cindy, other states are hurting.  New Mexico cancelled all of the major events this summer. This will hurt us very badly as well as hurt all of the merchants and vendors who participate.  For the International Folk Art Market some of those people make more in that three day period that they do the rest of the year.


----------



## lynne (Apr 30, 2020)

rickandcindy23 said:


> This large group of petition signers that are on Oahu are marching on the capitol in Honolulu   Hawaii depends on tourism.  Other states don't depend on it as much, but there are other states that are hurting, too.  SC, FL, CA, AZ, MO, MA, many others, and even Colorado, my home state, needs to fill the hotels and the resorts in the mountains and elsewhere.  That is why Governor Jared Polis opened things up in a careful and slow fashion, and good for him.  I usually am not a fan of his, but I sure am becoming a fan.
> 
> Hotel taxes bring in a lot of revenue, and so do visitors with deep pockets (I am not one of the deep pocket spenders, but I do my share of enjoying attractions and restaurants during our travels).



Yes, hotel taxes bring in revenue as do visitors who spend here.  But again I will state that if the hotels open and the staff needed to support the opening get ill and pass it to their family, this state will never recover.  We had an outbreak of one employee at McDonalds in Kona and it spread quickly to 32 people which were employees or family members of employees.   

As to Colorado, we have a neighbor who has home both here and in Vail.  He came here in December and is not leaving due to the outbreaks in Colorado.  His plan is to go back possibly in July.  All of our other neighbors who have homes in Europe and the mainland, have also decided to stay put and not travel.  The state is safe now but will not be once tourism begins again.


----------



## DeniseM (Apr 30, 2020)

If it were my call, I wouldn't open Hawaii until they can screen visitors before they even get on the airplane.  

*This is why: *


----------



## Steve Fatula (Apr 30, 2020)

LisaRex said:


> It's easy for me because no one wants to visit Ohio.



Hey, I visit Ohio! A friend in Cincinnati, a friend in Hilliard, a sister in Akron, and many friends in Cleveland.  

Ohio has the best Amusement parks in the world.

I wouldn't mind some criteria before being allowed to fly to Hawaii. If somehow it were possible to know that I bring with me no risk, what's the argument against?


----------



## R.J.C. (Apr 30, 2020)

buzglyd said:


> You'll stay in the U.S.? Did Hawaii leave the Union?



Do I really have to type out Continental US (since most people have no idea what CONUS means) every single time for y'all to understand what is meant?

Of course, I would have no problem giving Hawaii to Japan and we can give them California as a bonus gift as well.


----------



## SmithOp (Apr 30, 2020)

R.J.C. said:


> Do I really have to type out Continental US (since most people have no idea what CONUS means) every single time for y'all to understand what is meant?
> 
> Of course, I would have no problem giving Hawaii to Japan and we can give them California as a bonus gift as well.



No problem, we would love to break away, shades of The Man in the High Castle!

I just cruised PCH to check the beaches and saw several out of state plates, Wash, AZ and even NY, go home already!




Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro


----------



## CalGalTraveler (Apr 30, 2020)

R.J.C. said:


> Of course, I would have no problem giving Hawaii to Japan and we can give them California as a bonus gift as well.



Wow....

Hmm...Since California is the 5th largest economy in the world (bigger than the U.K. Canada or Russia), and a net tax contributor to the USA, perhaps becoming a nation on it's own with Hawaii would be a desirable option. We'll just stop subsidizing handouts to other states - and enjoy Hawaii ourselves!


----------



## cman (Apr 30, 2020)

It would be suicidal for Hawaii to open today. It's about their healthcare capacity. They don't have enough. As of today, there are only 45 available ICU beds for the entire state of Hawaii, and less than 1000 available regular hospital beds. If 30K+ tourists per day descend on the Hawaiian Islands, they won't last a week. Governor Ige is doing the right thing by looking at the long game. If he opens too early, he won't get a second chance. Opening "now" would be reckless. I won't be signing this petition.


----------



## Tamaradarann (Apr 30, 2020)

CalGalTraveler said:


> Wow....
> 
> Hmm...Since California is the 5th largest economy in the world (bigger than the U.K. Canada or Russia), and a net tax contributor to the USA, perhaps becoming a nation on it's own with Hawaii would be a desirable option. We'll just stop subsidizing handouts to other states.



I agree with you.  You can put NY State in with California and Hawaii in your new country.  We also pay way more in Federal Tax dollars than we get back.  

Now getting back to subject of the thread; the 14 day quarantine in Hawaii.  It is easy for those that are tourists to say that Hawaii should stop the 14 day quarantine and open up the state for people to come without restrictions and appropriate testing.  They can then go back to their home state if things get really bad and the Health Care Capacity can't handle to load.  It is not their home.


----------



## echino (May 1, 2020)

cman said:


> It would be suicidal for Hawaii to open today. It's about their healthcare capacity. They don't have enough. As of today, there are only 45 available ICU beds for the entire state of Hawaii, and less than 1000 available regular hospital beds. If 30K+ tourists per day descend on the Hawaiian Islands, they won't last a week. Governor Ige is doing the right thing by looking at the long game. If he opens too early, he won't get a second chance. Opening "now" would be reckless. I won't be signing this petition.



I keep reading about empty ICU beds everywhere. Are these fake news?


----------



## klpca (May 1, 2020)

My husband spent a night in the ICU in Waimea. He was in one of the four ICU beds there. The ER didn't have many more. There was one doctor in the ER the night we were there. This is the hospital that serves the entire Kohala area where the HGVC timeshares are located. The infrastructure just isn't there to deal with a large influx of covid patients.


----------



## pedro47 (May 1, 2020)

Getting back to the thread topics.  How is the petition signing going in the state of Hawaii and the other forty nine (49) states and territories that make up the United States of America?

I did not sign this petition. First, I refused to sign because they were asking for money (not mandatory) and second  they need to check their information and facts.IMO.
Less than 1000 individuals have signed this petition .
This topics was posted Wednesday on the TUG website.


----------



## Tamaradarann (May 1, 2020)

R.J.C. said:


> Do I really have to type out Continental US (since most people have no idea what CONUS means) every single time for y'all to understand what is meant?
> 
> Of course, I would have no problem giving Hawaii to Japan and we can give them California as a bonus gift as well.



Your post that you are being corrected you on at 5:07 Thursday 4/30 stated US not CONUS.  Therefore, your post was inaccurate since Hawaii is one of the 50 states of the US and people correcting you were correct by correcting you.  To avoid confusion I would recommend that you type out Continental US like most people do so that your comments are not misunderstood and you don't appear ignorant of the history of the United States.


----------



## CalGalTraveler (May 1, 2020)

I didn't sign because IMO this is up to the people in the state of Hawaii to decide if this is the right and safe thing to do. I prefer to respect their comfort level with their safety and infrastructure as their citizens work this with their state government, rather than a bunch of outsiders telling them what to do just because mainlanders don't want their vacation plans cancelled.


----------



## jmhpsu93 (May 1, 2020)

I think I mentioned in one of the other couple dozen COVID-related threads that this is ALL about the health care system being able to handle the sick patients.  If the area in question can handle it (and many areas have totally empty hospitals), then have at it with a measured re-opening (as Florida is doing, despite all the misinformation out there).  If you're like the NYC metropolitan area (for sure) and other larger densely-populated areas in the East Coast megapolis from Boston to DC, or an isolated location with limited excess health care capacity and no easy way to scale it up (like Hawaii), then a slower re-open is warranted.


----------



## SandyPGravel (May 1, 2020)

LisaRex said:


> It's easy for me because no one wants to visit Ohio.



Honestly, I really want to visit the Columbus Zoo, but I will continue to wait.     I was amazed when I saw how many HOF are in Ohio.  Cedar Point and King's island too.  I think Ohio has it going on for tourism.  I have a friend that goes to the Rock and Roll HOF almost yearly.

I think you're selling yourself short! But, I agree, it's not Hawaii.


----------



## Kapolei (May 1, 2020)

R.J.C. said:


> Do I really have to type out Continental US (since most people have no idea what CONUS means) every single time for y'all to understand what is meant?
> 
> Of course, I would have no problem giving Hawaii to Japan and *we* can give them California as a bonus gift as well.



‘I have always wondered who this “we” is.  Who is in your group?


----------



## burg1121 (May 1, 2020)

I hope we don't have to wait for this to travel again. I'm not going to hold my breath

www.abc.net.au › news › health › coronavirus-vaccine-...


----------



## R.J.C. (May 1, 2020)

Kapolei said:


> ‘I have always wondered who this “we” is.  Who is in your group?



Sorry but your security clearance isn't high enough to access that information.


----------



## R.J.C. (May 1, 2020)

Tamaradarann said:


> Your post that you are being corrected you on at 5:07 Thursday 4/30 stated US not CONUS.  Therefore, your post was inaccurate since Hawaii is one of the 50 states of the US and people correcting you were correct by correcting you.  To avoid confusion I would recommend that you type out Continental US like most people do so that your comments are not misunderstood and you don't appear ignorant of the history of the United States.



I am fully aware I didn't not use CONUS and if you had actually read and understood my second post you would have fully realized why I didn't use CONUS and why I won't use Continental US. To aid in your confusion and believed moral superiority on your part, from now on I will use the term CONUS and you can either learn what it means or stay confused, your choice.

What really gets me though is the fact that you knew exactly what was meant and yet you still had to write out your whiny post. As a history minor I am fully aware of the history of the US but I also realize when most talk about the US they are referring to CONUS 99.999% of the time. If you misunderstand my comments it really doesn't matter to me.


----------



## cman (May 1, 2020)

R.J.C. said:


> As a history minor I am fully aware of the history of the US but I also realize when most talk about the US they are referring to CONUS 99.999% of the time.



I teach undergraduates. I'm proud to say that NONE of them would EVER talk about the US as only consisting of CONUS. Not sure where you get your 99.999% figure from. You might be living in a different reality than the rest of us.


----------



## Fredflintstone (May 1, 2020)

cman said:


> It would be suicidal for Hawaii to open today. It's about their healthcare capacity. They don't have enough. As of today, there are only 45 available ICU beds for the entire state of Hawaii, and less than 1000 available regular hospital beds. If 30K+ tourists per day descend on the Hawaiian Islands, they won't last a week. Governor Ige is doing the right thing by looking at the long game. If he opens too early, he won't get a second chance. Opening "now" would be reckless. I won't be signing this petition.



I agree it is suicidal to open up Hawaii for precisely the reasons you outlined.

However, if we do the right thing and keep things contained, there is one big problem facing Hawaii.










						State paid $204M in benefits in April as unemployment hit 35%
					

The state Department of Labor and Industrial Relations said Friday it has received 229,142 jobless claims since the closures and sudden halt in tourism started in March.




					www.hawaiinewsnow.com
				




35 percent unemployment. As Hawaii is a very expensive place to live, historical stats show the bulk of locales (excluding the 5 percent extreme wealthy) have little to no savings. Rent is due. Food bank lines are exploding. I truly don’t think they can do the right thing economically for the months needed to contain the virus. 

For a proper, sustained containment, the FED is going to need to further wind up the presses and begin dumping aid way beyond what’s being given at the moment.

In short, delaying is correct but requires a connect of massive aid to the 35 percent unemployed to hang on. Otherwise, the masses there will get desperate.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## CalGalTraveler (May 1, 2020)

FWIW...I just finished reading, _How To Hide an Empire; History of the Greater United States._

A very eye opening book because we are taught in grade school that the USA consists primarily of the mainland "logo map" (plus sometimes Hawaii and AK hanging out at the edges.)

Most Americans don't realize that Puerto Ricans, and people of Guam, Saipan/Northern Marianas are U.S. citizens and that they are part of the USA because they are not included in the USA "logo map." Samoa is also a U.S. territory but they don't get citizenship rights at birth.

When USA was attacked in WWII, the Phillippines were a U.S. territory that was lost on Dec 7 along with Guam (which was later regained.) Few Americans knew or talked about those U.S. losses.

The book also discusses the US overseas bases and policies which kindled hatred that led to 9/11 and took so many Americans by surprise.

Recommended reading or audiobook.





__





						How to Hide an Empire: A History of the Greater United States: Immerwahr, Daniel: 9780374172145: Amazon.com: Books
					

How to Hide an Empire: A History of the Greater United States [Immerwahr, Daniel] on Amazon.com. *FREE* shipping on qualifying offers. How to Hide an Empire: A History of the Greater United States



					www.amazon.com


----------



## Tamaradarann (May 1, 2020)

R.J.C. said:


> Sorry but your security clearance isn't high enough to access that information.



We do know who you all are without a security clearance, particularly after your comment about having no problem giving Hawaii and California to Japan.  Where did that come from?  

Furthermore, I didn't know what you meant by the United States as opposed to Hawaii since Hawaii is part of the United States.  My confusion was not caused by my Moral Superiority it was caused by my Historical and Mathematicaly Superiority.  Since 1959 the 48 contiguous states of the United States were joined by 2 other states, Alaska and Hawaii, to add up to 50.  Contrary to your thinking most people refer to the contiguous 48 states of the United States as the Continental United States or the Mainland not the United States when also speaking in a conversation with respect to Hawaii.


----------



## stslc (May 1, 2020)

Now, what was this thread about again?


----------



## LannyPC (May 1, 2020)

stslc said:


> Now, what was this thread about again?



I clicked on the link to the petition and read some of the comments from people who are signing the petition.  I thought they made some interesting points.  I'm not saying they're valid, just interesting.


----------



## Kapolei (May 2, 2020)

LannyPC said:


> I clicked on the link to the petition and read some of the comments from people who are signing the petition.  I thought they made some interesting points.  I'm not saying they're valid, just interesting.



‘I find it interesting that there are people out there that think it is socially acceptable not to believe in the United States of America.  Where did they get the idea that a lot of people think like them?  Most people are not this obnoxious are they?


----------



## pedro47 (May 2, 2020)

Only 782 people have signed this petition as of this morning.


----------



## DannyTS (May 2, 2020)

pedro47 said:


> Only 782 people have signed this petition as of this morning.


If only 15% if the US population wanted to support the petition, that would be 45 million people. The fact that only 782 signed it is probably showing less who agrees with it and more that the Facebooks of the world decided not to promote petitions like this. We all know how their algorithms work.


----------



## CalGalTraveler (May 2, 2020)

IMHO...No matter what anyone believes, a petition like this asking for signatures and money to influence politicians is a political process and doesn't belong on TUG. Please take it to Facebook.


----------



## LannyPC (May 2, 2020)

Fredflintstone said:


> Even if Hawaii opens up, the global systems will still keep visitors away.



Not to mention, doesn't HI still have the 14-day quarantine in effect for people who arrive from out of state?  So, if I were to fly there, would I not have to isolate myself for 14 days?  Why would I pay to fly somewhere and then isolate myself for 14 days?  Or is this petition asking the powers-that-be to end this requirement so that tourists will not face that incentive to stay away?


----------



## rickandcindy23 (May 2, 2020)

SmithOp said:


> No problem, we would love to break away, shades of The Man in the High Castle!
> 
> I just cruised PCH to check the beaches and saw several out of state plates, Wash, AZ and even NY, go home already!
> 
> ...


Loved that show.  I wish they didn't end it after the last season.   It was so good.


----------



## TravelTime (May 2, 2020)

In reading the petition, it sounded like they want stay at home to be lifted for the residents since there have been few cases and deaths in Hawaii. It does not say anything about tourists. I would assume if Hawaii starts to lift the restrictions, they would start for residents first well before welcoming tourists back in.


----------



## rickandcindy23 (May 2, 2020)

But I have ulterior motives for wanting things to loosen up in Hawaii because we are supposed to go to Kauai in June.  

The powers that be will not open things up, and we aren't going to Hawaii, if we are not welcome.  That is truth.  I don't want to be harassed.  Who knows if Wyndham will even open the resort in June.  They may keep it closed indefinitely. 

We have already had to cancel a trip to Europe (Italy for a week and a 12-day Mediterranean cruise).  We were supposed to come back today.  And we have a trip to Orlando 5/18-5/31 that we are going to cancel.   And now Kauai 6/6-6/20.  I am bummed, but I understand, too.  I have been looking at some great options for coastal FL in August, but Rick has no desire to go anywhere now, with everything like it is.  August is so hot in FL.  So he told me to book Maui for about 4-5 weeks next year, and I am working on that.  

Rick's stepmom will have to join us on Maui for a few weeks. She really wanted to go to Shearwater and kept saying it would be her last Hawaii trip. She wanted to end her trips with Kauai because it was her first experience, and it is her fondest memory of Hawaii. Waking up in the morning to that ocean view 14 years ago was a major highlight of her life. A book in her hand a pina colada on the table next to her, and she was in her happy place. She always tells her friends when she gets back from a Hawaii trip that yesterday she was having Hawaiian coffee on the lanai with an ocean view, and today she is having Folgers on her deck with a view of the neighbor's fence. 

She would be bored if we took her for more than 2 weeks.  I just have to work out the logistics of getting her on a plane to go back home earlier.  She will be almost 93.  She cannot maneuver around as much as other people.  Our son would have to pick her up at the gate, get her luggage, and bring her home.


----------



## rickandcindy23 (May 2, 2020)

TravelTime said:


> In reading the petition, it sounded like they want stay at home to be lifted for the residents since there have been few cases and deaths in Hawaii. It does not say anything about tourists. I would assume if Hawaii starts to lift the restrictions, they would start for residents first well before welcoming tourists back in.


Yeah, absolutely.  The powers that be are arresting people for sitting down on the beach.  This is a petition by the residents, and I admit it's poorly worded.


----------



## Kapolei (May 2, 2020)

CalGalTraveler said:


> IMHO...No matter what anyone believes, a petition like this asking for signatures and money to influence politicians is a political process and doesn't belong on TUG. Please take it to Facebook.



i am not bothered by people discussing influencing policy one way or another If it involves timeshares.  I find it annoying when they start to post about particular political parties or politicians.  Particularly when they want to bash them.  If you are bashing a politician or party, then you are upsetting people aligned with that party or politician.  The other thing I find annoying is the attempt to minimize the USA or the people in it.  The name of our country implies a basic principle — we are united.


----------



## bbodb1 (May 2, 2020)

LisaRex said:


> I feel for the people who are out of work.  It's hard enough to endure this pandemic without worrying about paying your bills or destroying your savings.  But I have to chime in, too, that I don't think us asking Hawaii to open before they're ready is productive.  This should be decided on a local level, because it is they who will have to deal with the consequences of allowing people from every corner of the world to invade their homeland.
> 
> It's easy for me because no one wants to visit Ohio.



_*Is that the ghost of Sam Wyche I hear?  *_


----------



## TravelTime (May 2, 2020)

I just looked up the data and Hawaii has the lowest death rate in the nation. No wonder the locals want to open up.


----------



## pedro47 (May 2, 2020)

If this petition is showing the backing of the Hawaiian community.
Please explain why this petition only have 790 signatures?


----------



## Kapolei (May 2, 2020)

pedro47 said:


> If this petition is showing the backing of the Hawaiian community.
> Please explain why this petition only have 790 signatures?



Here is my best assessment.  People are grateful that we have avoided the pandemic.  Families and elderly are very important in local culture.  People have been very compliant with restrictions and are seeing a benefit.  While the future is uncertain, I think there is a consensus that we don't want arrivals to bring the virus here.  People are being patient.  I expect to see some relaxation of local restrictions soon.  Internet petitions have very little weight and people do not care much about them.


----------



## CanuckTravlr (May 3, 2020)

TravelTime said:


> I just looked up the data and Hawaii has the lowest death rate in the nation. No wonder the locals want to open up.



Or, alternatively, that is why most are prepared to live with the current restrictions.  They see it has had results and they are prepared to wait it out a bit longer, so that they don't end up with the much higher Covid-19 case and death rates that we see in many states in the continental USA.


----------



## pedro47 (May 3, 2020)

CanuckTravlr said:


> Or, alternatively, that is why most are prepared to live with the current restrictions.  They see it has had results and they are prepared to wait it out a bit longer, so that they don't end up with the much higher Covid-19 case and death rates that we see in many states in the continental USA.


Sound liked some good thought out planning by someone.


----------



## Luanne (May 4, 2020)

LisaRex said:


> Not sure what your point is here.  We've known for awhile that the elderly and those with underlying health issues are the most vulnerable.  FYI, in Ohio we've had 1056 deaths so far and the median age is 51.  We are also beginning to see that men are more likely to die than women.



No one is immune.  True the elderly and most likely to die from COVID-19, but those much younger can still get it, and then spread it to others.


----------



## LisaRex (May 4, 2020)

Luanne said:


> No one is immune.  True the elderly and most likely to die from COVID-19, but those much younger can still get it, and then spread it to others.



Yes.  I was trying to figure out what Pathways' point was.  My only guess is that he thinks that younger people should not be quarantined because they're less likely to get it.


----------



## Pathways (May 4, 2020)

LisaRex said:


> Yes, state and local politicians are elected by voters; That's the way a republic works. But constituents can and do sway their elected officials' votes outside of elections. In fact, our governor, Mike DeWine (R) was an early proponent of stay-at-home orders, in direct opposition to the President, who at the time was still downplaying the virus. Fast forward a few weeks, and DeWine has kowtowed to the far right demonstrators by opening up many businesses earlier than most other states.



Actually I meant literally 'a little bit'  as in I agreed with you except the minor point that in some states the governor is making decisions that affect the entire state instead of letting it be decided 'on the local level'.  (normally not a bad thing, but in this instance, the issues were affecting the metro areas much differently than the rural areas)

If you attended 'Wine with DeWine' today, DeWine even mentioned that Ohio is a little later opening up than its next door neighbor.  And Dr Acton said (before she put me to sleep as she tends to go on and on) that the decisions are going to be made on the county level with the local health departments.  Now that is truly deciding 'at the local level' which I support as I believe it helps get the community to buy-in.


----------



## Tamaradarann (May 4, 2020)

LisaRex said:


> Yes.  I was trying to figure out what Pathways' point was.  My only guess is that he thinks that younger people should not be quarantined because they're less likely to get it.



I don't know if they are less likely to get it but they are less likely to have a severe case and die.  I know they have done studies on how many people have the antibodies and have never had the virus or thought they had the virus since the symptoms were so mild.  I wonder if the did an age group breakdown on that.  Perhaps those people who have the antibodies and didn't realize that had the virus are the many younger people have had the virus but were in good health and didn't even know it.


----------



## Pathways (May 4, 2020)

LisaRex said:


> Not sure what your point is here. We've known for awhile that the elderly and those with underlying health issues are the most vulnerable. FYI, in Ohio we've had 1056 deaths so far and the median age is 51. We are also beginning to see that men are more likely to die than women.





LisaRex said:


> Yes. I was trying to figure out what Pathways' point was. My only guess is that he thinks that younger people should not be quarantined because they're less likely to get it.



Exactly.  The 'median' age is a pretty useless number when describing the deaths.  The 'average' age of death is 80.

There still have have only been 22 deaths in Ohio age 50 and below, which compared to the spike in OD deaths is a very very small number.  So yes, those high risk segments can/should continue to isolate.  The younger group can use new practices and move forward.


----------



## Pathways (May 4, 2020)

Thought you might find interesting the statement release by the Mitch Daniels, President of Purdue University:

“Purdue University, for its part, intends to accept students on campus in typical numbers this fall, sober about the certain problems that the COVID-19 virus represents, but determined not to surrender helplessly to those difficulties but to tackle and manage them aggressively and creatively.”

Daniels notes at least 80% of the Purdue community is 35 years old or younger and that “all data to date tell us that the COVID-19 virus, while it transmits rapidly in this age group, poses close to zero lethal threat to them.”

Daniels acknowledges the virus poses a serious health risk to older demographic groups, especially those with underlying health conditions, and the Purdue community includes people who have such health conditions.

He discusses using innovation to ensure learning continues in the most favorable setting for students and the most protective setting for those at high risk. He mentions reduced class sizes, more online instruction and virtual lab work, and using Purdue’s own laboratory for testing students and then quarantining and contact tracing

Daniels says that the shutdown was necessary but has come with real costs. He notes that “a return-to-operations strategy is undergirded by a fundamental conviction that even a phenomenon as menacing as COVID-19 is one of the inevitable risks of life” and that “closing down our entire society … comes at extraordinary costs, as much human as economic, and at some point, clearly before next fall, those will begin to vastly outweigh the benefits of its continuance.”


----------



## LisaRex (May 5, 2020)

Pathways said:


> If you attended 'Wine with DeWine' today, DeWine even mentioned that Ohio is a little later opening up than its next door neighbor.



I actually did attend, as I try to do most days, although I confess that 2pm is a little early for me to start hitting the bottle.   And since you also attended, you know that while he did say that Ohio was a little later opening up than its next door neighbor, he mentioned Indiana only as the exception to his larger statement, that Ohio was opening up EARLIER than most of its neighbors.


----------



## LisaRex (May 5, 2020)

Pathways said:


> Thought you might find interesting the statement release by the Mitch Daniels, President of Purdue University:
> 
> “Purdue University, for its part, intends to accept students on campus in typical numbers this fall, sober about the certain problems that the COVID-19 virus represents, but determined not to surrender helplessly to those difficulties but to tackle and manage them aggressively and creatively.”



I heard this.  While I understand his stance, we shall see if it makes any difference.  Much is out of his control because he has to sell this idea to the governor, students, parents, and staff.  Universities are especially vulnerable right now, IMO:

1) Tuition is so expensive, and many students (or their parents) won't be able to pay those fees now because they've lost their jobs. 
2) If a 2nd or 3rd wave comes round, schools may be closed again (at the governor's order) and revert back to virtual learning.  As a consumer, do I want to pay full freight up front with this risk looming?
3) Dorms, which are essential for opening, as well as being huge revenue-generators for the university, will also ensure the spread of the virus.  It's one thing to expose a 20 year old.  It's quite another to have him go to class and infect his professor, go to lunch and infect the cashier, or go back home and infect Grandma at Thanksgiving.
4) The job market for most graduates will remain scarce as long as the virus is disrupting the economy (and its impact may be felt for years beyond that), so there's no rush to get a degree.
5) State funding will dry up as it's diverted to paying record unemployment and crisis management programs.

Obviously, much is unknown at this point, and we will get a lot more data in the next few weeks as broader testing becomes available and as more states open up businesses.  IMO, Mr. Daniels' announcement is hopeful, but premature.


----------



## Pathways (May 5, 2020)

LisaRex said:


> I heard this. While I understand his stance, we shall see if it makes any difference. Much is out of his control because he has to sell this idea to the governor, students, parents, and staff. Universities are especially vulnerable right now, IMO:



So true.  He's a great salesman, glad I'm not in the group he's selling to!


----------



## Pathways (May 5, 2020)

LisaRex said:


> while he did say that Ohio was a little later opening up than its next door neighbor, he mentioned Indiana only as the exception to his larger statement, that Ohio was opening up EARLIER than most of its neighbors.



Correct.  Puts him in a great position to watch what happens from both directions and then pivot if needed.


----------



## csodjd (May 5, 2020)

CalGalTraveler said:


> IMHO...No matter what anyone believes, a petition like this asking for signatures and money to influence politicians is a political process and doesn't belong on TUG. Please take it to Facebook.


I happen to think that petitions are very helpful. They allow a person to vent, to feel they are doing something. It is cathartic. That it doesn't actually change political policy (usually) is not the point. It's an outlet and if it helps people FEEL they are being heard, more power to it. I'd much rather see people signing a petition than marching on the steps of the capital.


----------



## csodjd (May 5, 2020)

Luanne said:


> No one is immune.  True the elderly and most likely to die from COVID-19, but those much younger can still get it, and then spread it to others.


In fact, they (younger people) are also as likely as an older person to get very sick. They just have better capacity to survive it. But, to the extent that they are more likely to NOT have symptoms, they are just that much MORE likely to unwittingly spread the infection. We cannot ignore the role of young people in a pandemic, even if they are not the ones dying.


----------



## Tamaradarann (May 5, 2020)

csodjd said:


> I happen to think that petitions are very helpful. They allow a person to vent, to feel they are doing something. It is cathartic. That it doesn't actually change political policy (usually) is not the point. It's an outlet and if it helps people FEEL they are being heard, more power to it. I'd much rather see people signing a petition than marching on the steps of the capital.



I agree with the benefits of signing a petition as an outlet for protest.  In view of the virus spread I can understand and agree with your preference to marching.  However, from the need to vent perspective either one provides the outlet.  In that vain i believe it is relevant to mention that yesterday was the 50th anniversary of the Kent State killing of 4 students by the National Guard for protesting the Vietnam War.  My husband is particularly effected by that incident since one of his high school classmates was killed.  I have accompanied him to a number of reunions when the incident was spoken of and the student memorialized.  No matter how you feel about the protests against the restrictions and closing down of the economy I believe it is important to keep in mind that in the United States people have the right to free speech and to peacefully protest.


----------



## csodjd (May 5, 2020)

Tamaradarann said:


> I agree with the benefits of signing a petition as an outlet for protest.  In view of the virus spread I can understand and agree with your preference to marching.  However, from the need to vent perspective either one provides the outlet.  In that vain i believe it is relevant to mention that yesterday was the 50th anniversary of the Kent State killing of 4 students by the National Guard for protesting the Vietnam War.  My husband is particularly effected by that incident since one of his high school classmates was killed.  I have accompanied him to a number of reunions when the incident was spoken of and the student memorialized.  No matter how you feel about the protests against the restrictions and closing down of the economy I believe it is important to keep in mind that in the United States people have the right to free speech and to peacefully protest.


Absolutely. But the tenor is different if a few dozen of the fellow protestors mingling in the crowd are infected with a highly contagious virus.


----------



## Pathways (May 5, 2020)

csodjd said:


> But the tenor is different if a few dozen of the fellow protestors mingling in the crowd



Also if there are 'flags' (you know the ones) and AK's everywhere.

I went to the first protest in our state.  Mostly quiet. Just letting the Governor know that there is a group that supports a different decision.

Drove to the second and didn't even stop.  Not MI bad, mind you, but I could see the 'fringe' element showing up. No way I want to support that.


----------



## csodjd (May 5, 2020)

Pathways said:


> Also if there are 'flags' (you know the ones) and AK's everywhere.
> 
> I went to the first protest in our state.  Mostly quiet. Just letting the Governor know that there is a group that supports a different decision.
> 
> Drove to the second and didn't even stop.  Not MI bad, mind you, but I could see the 'fringe' element showing up. No way I want to support that.


Putting the flags and that part aside, the AK's and weapons, I cannot help but ask, why? Are they trying to suggest they are willing to shoot you if you don't do what they want? What exactly is the message they are trying to convey? That they are tough? Is their protest more compelling with a gun? If it's a gun rights protest, I get it. But open up the hair salon and manicure parlor, or else?


----------



## Pathways (May 5, 2020)

csodjd said:


> I cannot help but ask, why?



Whoever finds that answer, put them on the team to find the vaccine. 

That's why I wouldn't stay at the second one, it just defeats the entire point.

If I say much more, it will probably just create work for a moderator.


----------



## csodjd (May 5, 2020)

Pathways said:


> Whoever finds that answer, put them on the team to find the vaccine.
> 
> That's why I wouldn't stay at the second one, it just defeats the entire point.
> 
> If I say much more, it will probably just create work for a moderator.


Well, just another one of those things I enjoy so much about Maui. Hardly ever see someone walking along the beach with an AK47.


----------

