# IMHO OLCC Better Than Sheraton Vistana



## Darlene (Aug 17, 2008)

We stayed at Sheraton last November, and I would never stay there again.  I did not feel that the entire resort deserved a gold crown.  Yes, there are nice units in the newer section, but very few exchangers ever see these units.  Most exchangers are placed in the older units, and newer units when available are rented.  The first unit we were assigned did not have working A/C.  After an hour, we were finally moved to another old unit that was in desperate need of updating.  
By contrast, OLCC has done a great job renovating the older units.  We were in a golf villa, and the kitchen and furnishings were top notch.  I had called ahead and asked for a unit close to the West Village Clubhouse.  Upon check-in we were assigned in a unit far from the clubhouse.  I mentioned that I had called ahead and made a unit request.  She checked to see I had made a request, and assigned us a unit close to the clubhouse.  I appreciated the way we were treated, even though we were not owners and were not interested in doing a sales pitch.   
While the pools at both resorts are nice, again I thought OLCC pools were a notch above.  I especially liked the lazy river, and the hammocks.  The location of both resorts is close to Disney.  I took the back route from OLCC into Disney.  If you are trying to decide between these two resorts, definitely stay at OLCC.


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## Sea Six (Aug 18, 2008)

Vistana doesn't have a gold crown rating.


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## jerseygirl (Aug 18, 2008)

As with all older resorts, it's cylical.  These boards had hundreds of OLCC West Village complaints for years ... and Vistana is in the middle of a massive refurbishment that is slated to be completed next year.


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## rickandcindy23 (Aug 18, 2008)

Darlene, which section at Vistana?  There are several areas of Vistana going through complete renovations right now, and you were unlucky enough to get one of the old units.  I am not sure if all areas of Vistana are getting facelifts.  I remember one HOA holding out.  

I agree with Jerseygirl, refurbs can make the difference between a bad experience last time to a great one the next.  My stay at Orange Lake in a high-rise (5 stories doesn't seem like a highrise), on South Magnolia Court, and it was pretty bad.  Our older Fountains unit at Vistana wasn't as bad as the Orange Lake unit; I would rather have been at Vistana than Orange Lake, any day.  Rick won't even consider a stay at Orange Lake again, unless we know which area ahead of time.  

These mega resorts have a tendency to let things get really bad before they do something about it.


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## capjak (Aug 18, 2008)

*Sheraton Resort or Villiages?*

I just got back from Sheraton Vistana Villiages and it was very nice, dedicated 2 bedroom.  In fact it was one of the nicest I have stayed at.

Now if you are talking about Sheraton Vistana Resort than I could see why you might complain.


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## jeffcarp (Aug 18, 2008)

What is the back route to Disney from OLCC?


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## timeos2 (Aug 18, 2008)

*Want top don't go mega*



rickandcindy23 said:


> These mega resorts have a tendency to let things get really bad before they do something about it.



ALL of them have the same issue. They have in the past been blended as one big resort with a (usually high) ranking. Lately there has been a move toward sectioning them off as individual resort numbers - that helps. But at any "mega" there is simply no way to know where they will put you and what condition your section and/or unit will be in.  They are too large to be consistently kept up or equally renovated. We have found that to avoid that problem we tend toward the full featured but smaller - and often far better located - resorts, preferably with a ranking. That seems to come closest to giving us a good chance at the type of unit quality they have in pictures, an up to date unit (for the ranking) and nice but not overwhelming grounds/activities on site. Being able to walk to things - including many restaurants and stores - is a big plus that no mega resorts can offer.


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## weidjx (Aug 18, 2008)

jeffcarp

here are the back directions to disney from OLCC.  It essentially puts you on Osceola Parkway right next to the Animal Kingdom and the remaing parks are minutes away.  Once you are Osceola Parkway it is well marked to all the Disney properties.

Back Way Directions to Disney


Continue west on 192 (Irlo Bronson Highway) going under the Route 429 overpass (which is just after OLCC) and get into the left lane at the next traffic light. Turn left onto Black Lake Road and continue to where it ends at Sherberth Road. Turn left onto Sherberth. This road winds along to the intersection with Osceola Parkway (Animal Kingdom Lodge is to the left and entrance to Animal Kingdom Park as well as the way to World Drive is to the right. From that point just follow the signs to the parks (it's a left turn to get onto World Drive to go to Hollywood Studios, Epcot and the Magic Kingdom so you'll probably want to get into the left lane after you go past the Animal Kingdom Park area).

You can also get to Sherberth Road without using Black Lake Road by staying on 192 and continuing to its intersection with Sherberth. When 192 traffic is light that can be just a tiny bit faster. But then 192 traffic isn't always light.


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## timetraveler (Aug 18, 2008)

LMBO...and now the entire internet world knows the back way in!   :rofl:


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## AwayWeGo (Aug 18, 2008)

*C*pr*ss P**nt* ?*




timeos2 said:


> We have found that to avoid that problem we tend toward the full featured but smaller - and often far better located - resorts, preferably with a ranking. That seems to come closest to giving us a good chance at the type of unit quality they have in pictures, an up to date unit (for the ranking) and nice but not overwhelming grounds/activities on site. Being able to walk to things - including many restaurants and stores - is a big plus that no mega resorts can offer.


Any timeshares you know of which fit that description ?

Maybe this one ? 

Or possibly that one ? 

Just wondering. 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virignia, USA.​


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## bnoble (Aug 18, 2008)

That left from Black Lake to Sherbeth can be tricky, especially if there is traffic going south on Sherbeth leaving property, because it backs up past that intersection.  Plus it only saves you one light.  I tend to prefer taking 192 all the way to entry point/sherbeth, and turning left from there.


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## Sea Six (Aug 18, 2008)

rickandcindy23 said:


> My stay at Orange Lake was pretty bad.  Our older Fountains unit at Vistana wasn't as bad as the Orange Lake unit; I would rather have been at Vistana than Orange Lake, any day.  Rick won't even consider a stay at Orange Lake again,



I'm with you - Orange Lake is one place I'll never go back to.


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## borntotravel (Aug 18, 2008)

Darlene - I have to agree 100% with you.  We stayed at Vistana Villages in the "nicest" section everyone recommended and it was a dump.  We won't stay there again either, but we love OLCC.  We have yet to stay in the unit we own because we keep exchanging it for a different week.


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## AwayWeGo (Aug 18, 2008)

*Shocka !*




borntotravel said:


> We stayed at Vistana Villages in the "nicest" section everyone recommended and it was a dump.


That's the 2nd TUG-BBS complaint I've seen about Vistana Villages, & to me it's astounding & semi-shocking to see, because Vistana Villages was so fabulous when we saw it on (sales) tour in 2003 & even more so when we stayed there on _Instant Exchange_ in January 2007. 

I'm not doubting a word you say -- only expressing amazement that anybody's experience at Vistana Villages was substandard. 

Orange Lake is on our "some day" list, if we are ever able to snag a future exchange there. 

Our only semi-concerns about Orange Lake, other than its mega-resort size, are its location way out there past everything on Rt. 192 & the risk of getting a unit that's downwind of the Reedy Creek Improvement District sewage treatment plant. 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


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## Transit (Aug 18, 2008)

borntotravel said:


> Darlene - I have to agree 100% with you.  We stayed at Vistana Villages in the "nicest" section everyone recommended and it was a dump.



Everyones entitled to thier own opinion but to say Vistana Villages is a dump is an extreme exaggeration.


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## Darlene (Aug 19, 2008)

We did not stay at Vistana Villages.  I thought that these were newer, nicer units.  
We stayed at Sheraton Vistana in the Courts, one of the old sections that we were told had been updated <5 years ago.  It had a view of the back of another building, and no patio.  The kitchen still had formica countertops, and old cabinets.  The bathrooms were seriously outdated with wallpaper and the towel racks wouldn't stay on the wall.  The carpet was badly stained, and the couch was low quality.  I talked to many SV owners who purchased back when t/s were $5000 brand new.  When they come back to their home resort, they are not allowed to stay in the newer section of the resort.  I posted a review under resort reviews.   SV does not deserve a GC when over half there units are so old and outdated.
OLCC has refurbished their golf villas quite nicely.  We stayed there 5 years ago, and while the unit was large and clean, it was seriously outdated.  I love the new kitchens, baths, and furniture.  I did call ahead and request an updated unit close to clubhouse.  They had actually documented my request.  Sorry you got a bad tennis unit (high rise) I know many have been recently renovated.  I also felt we were treated better at OLCC as exchangers.
I agree with bnoble.  It's best just to turn onto Sherbeth.  Traffic can back up alot on BLack Lake road.


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## rickandcindy23 (Aug 19, 2008)

borntotravel said:


> Darlene - I have to agree 100% with you.  We stayed at Vistana Villages in the "nicest" section everyone recommended and it was a dump.  We won't stay there again either, but we love OLCC.  We have yet to stay in the unit we own because we keep exchanging it for a different week.



We stayed in the oldest section of Vistana Villages this past December, building 2, and it was very nice, very upscale, with the most comfortable beds I have ever slept on in a timeshares, and very nice furnishings.  I think you are confusing your resorts, possibly you were at Vistana, which does have old sections.  But Vistana is refurbishing all of their older units.  Are you sure it wasn't Vistana?


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## Sea Six (Aug 19, 2008)

I believe people are confusing Vistana Resort with Vistana Villages.  They are two separate places.


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## bward (Aug 19, 2008)

*Vistana Villages and Vistana Resort*

Hi Alan and Transit

I'm with you. I don't see how any section of Vistana Villages could be called a dump. It's all brand new. Not saying there wasn't an issue, but a dump?

I'm also guessing one of the older, pre-furb sections in Vistana Resort is the likely culprit.

And that leads me to this: why on earth did SVO name its second timeshare project in Orlando Vistana Villages? Why not give it a unique name to avoid this confusion? It's hard enough to keep the various sections of each Vistana straight, but to give the two resorts (roughly) the same name just leads to all kinds of issues.

I've never been to OLCC, so I can't chime in on this debate. However, I own at Vistana Villages (been there once) and have gone to Vistana Resort three times: Springs, Lakes, Cascades, and had a wonderful time each vacation.

I don't, however, wear pink shades, or drink the Kool-Aid, and I understand where traders being placed in an older section of Vistana Resort would have an issue. 

That said, these refurbs at Vistana Resort sound incredible. Nearly everything is being replaced in these units. I wouldn't be surprised if some of them were being reduced to their studs and then rebuilt. 

Long overdue? Absolutely. 

Once this is complete, here's hoping Vistana RESORT gets its Gold Crown back. 

As for the VILLAGES (on International Drive) if conditions there are truly so bad that some units are truly dumps, I want to know about it.

Take care,

bward


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## shame711 (Aug 19, 2008)

I own at Vistana but stayed at OLCC last November.  Both seemed about the same to me for mega resorts.  Our unit was a tad older (VCR but no DVD) but we are not picky.  I would assume after the refurb at Vistana it will be back up to Gold Crown.  

Looking back I wish I had bought at OLCC.  I love to golf but won't even think about it at on vacation until the kids are older.  Plus I was told (not sure how true it is) that when the West Village was refurbed there was no special assessment.  That would be nice considering I just paid Vistana $1200.  Didn't like paying for internet at OLCC when its free at Vistana.    I do like the location of Vistana better and the overall layout of the complex.  If you are aware of the trading issues with Orlando and still want to own there for the money (resale of course) I don't think you can go wrong with either resort.  They both have their pros and cons.


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## bnoble (Aug 19, 2008)

It would be hard to compare these two resorts based only on one stay in each---there is just that much variance from unit to unit.

Then again, that's one reason I'm not super excited to exchange into either.  I'd take an exchange if I was pressed, but luckily that's usually not the case.


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## borntotravel (Aug 19, 2008)

I'm sorry, I got the two switched.  I have never been to Vistana Villages, it was Vistana Resort - and the condo WAS A DUMP!  The resort itself and the exterior of the building was nice, but the unit was horrible and nasty.  The carpet should have been replaced ages ago, so filthy with stains that I wouldn't walk in my bare feet on it.    May apoligies to Vistana Villages, but my comments and experience with Vistana Resort still stand, and I will not go back there!


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## sfwilshire (Aug 19, 2008)

We hated OLCC on our one stay, but I'd be willing to give them another try now that they've divided the sections up.

My kids complained all week that they'd rather be at Vistana. I wish they would divide the sections there. The Courts have always given the whole resort a bad name, though I just read here that they are being updated as well. Maybe with all the renovations, the Gold Crown status will come back.

Sheila


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## timetraveler (Aug 20, 2008)

shame711 said:


> I own at Vistana but stayed at OLCC last November.  Both seemed about the same to me for mega resorts.  Our unit was a tad older (VCR but no DVD) but we are not picky.  I would assume after the refurb at Vistana it will be back up to Gold Crown.
> 
> Looking back I wish I had bought at OLCC.  I love to golf but won't even think about it at on vacation until the kids are older.  Plus I was told (not sure how true it is) that when the West Village was refurbed there was no special assessment.  That would be nice considering I just paid Vistana $1200



You were told correctly.  NO special assessment for our stripped down to the studs refurb!


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## gjw007 (Aug 22, 2008)

One of the problems on this board with responses is that there is an assumption that what each individual likes, then others should like it as well.  For example, the comment that being able to walk to dining facilities is seen as a big plus.  Actually one of the reasons I like OLCC is because it is not cramped into a small space.  I own at Vacation Village at Parkway which when all is said and done will have almost as many units as OLCC currently has without the amenities but all 20 buildings are in a small property.  The ability to walk, have the space to do so to me, being able to park near my building and unit without being 3 or 4 buildings over, etc. is more important than being near restraurants.  One of the reasons I bought a timeshare was so that I could cook in the unit rather than be forced to go to restraurants otherwise I would just stay in hotels or studio units.  Neither choice is right or wrong because it is an individual choice but it is wrong to suggest that it is a negative for somebody else if you don't know what they like.  Many of the items that are used to evaluate timeshares or experiences fit this description and so while each evaluation is important, it must be evaluated in regards to individual likes and desires.

It has been 5 years since I have stayed at the Fountains II area at Vistana Resort.  I liked Vistana but not as much as I like OLCC.  I have heard people describe both Vistana and OLCC as dumps but that has not been my experience.  It is interesting that I have stayed at places that other people have praised only to be very disappointed.  Summer Bay has been the worst experience that I have had but others love it.  As others have noted, both Vistana and OLCC have major renovations done to the units (OLCC didn't charge the owners a special accessment, Vistana did).  As an aside, Summer Bay has also renovated the units in the building that I was in after my stay.

I do agree that the VCR's need to replaced with DVD's and should have been over 5 years ago.  DVD's are less than $50 so they are no longer expensive.  No resort is perfect whether it be OLCC, Vistana, Sheratan, Disney, Cypress Pointe, Hilton, etc. as there are always decisions that have to be made to keep things within reasonable expense for the owners and as such, some things are left out.


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## timeos2 (Aug 22, 2008)

gjw007 said:


> One of the problems on this board with responses is that there is an assumption that what each individual likes, then others should like it as well.  For example, the comment that being able to walk to dining facilities is seen as a big plus.  Actually one of the reasons I like OLCC is because it is not cramped into a small space.  I own at Vacation Village at Parkway which when all is said and done will have almost as many units as OLCC currently has without the amenities but all 20 buildings are in a small property.  .



What you state is certainly true. We have found we don't prefer any of the mega-resorts because they are so large and everything is too far to get to although often beautiful.  Worse is the extremely variable units you tend to find in those resorts as shown by responses right here in this thread. Too big to handle on a consistant basis. 

On the other hand your example of Parkway is the opposite extreme. Crammed into a bad location, yet spread out over a long road virtually no resort feel and not really convenient to anything it combines the worst of a mega and a more compact resort - not to it's benefit.  Yet the units there, at least the ones I've stayed at, were nice and I had no complaints about that. Just not what I would consider to be a top "resort" more of a nice apartment to spend some time.  

Everyone is going to have things they like or dislike about almost any resort. Thats why they most, except my sewer pit called Wastegate,l seem to thrive I guess.


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## borntotravel (Aug 23, 2008)

You are both absolutely right about peoples opinions, and it certainly does make a difference as to whether you get a refurbished unit or one that is due soon (I've had both).  And I must admit, the reason I won't go back to Vistana Resort or Liki Tiki is because at both of these the units were old, nasty carpets, and broken and worn out furniture.  If I had had a nice unit, I wouldn't have had anything negative to say about Vistana.  The grounds are nicely kept and the resort is very appealing to the eye.  

I have exchanged into Westgate Lakes three times, twice in an efficiency and once into a two bedroom.  I have always been very happy with that resort and the units have been very nice (and I'm pretty picky anda bit of a time share snob).  The only problem I see there is the parking situation.  But....I hear tons of negative things on TUG about this resort and it's not just the owners airing their concerns about Westgate as a whole, but people that have exchanged into there.  Personally, I would put that as one of my "preferred" resorts.

Go figure!!  Just goes to show you that people's opinions are pretty subjective.


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## bward (Aug 23, 2008)

*More Vistana ReFurb*

There is a new Tug thread here on the Florida board that the much maligned Vistana Resort Courts section is getting refurbed. 

But judging from the amount of the special assessment ($1700) wouldn't it be better to call it a rehab? That's a lot more than owners of the other sections have paid, and I'm wondering if the Courts rehab is going to be more extensive.

The upside, of course, is that all of Vistana Resort will be a much better time share destination. And much more desirable. 

With Courts getting refurbed, anyone know which sections, if any, have yet to take the plunge?

bward


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## rickandcindy23 (Aug 23, 2008)

I liked Westgate Lakes as well, but we had a huge problem with parking.  We were literally parking anywhere we could find, sometimes great distances to the units.  

Vistana is going to be fabulous when it's done.  And the photos of OLCC Golf Villas looked really great, too.  For some of the areas, it seems that updates were long overdue at both mega resorts.


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## Mel (Aug 24, 2008)

The reason OLCC didn't have an assessment is that we have paid into a reserve fund all along - it has been budgeted from the beginning.  When we purchase, back in 1991, there was a 24 year refurbishment cycle - with different items being assigned a life of 8,16 or 24 years.  At 24 years, the plan was to rehab down to the drywall.  This is what has been seen with the West Village Golf Villas.  Several years ago, I recall the refurb cycle was changed - the 24 total years remained the same, but items like furniture was given a shorter life span (I think we went from a 8/16/24 year cycle to a 6/12/18/24 cycle).  Obviously, we had learned that the expected lifespan of some items was shorter than anticipated .

With Vistana doing a similar rehab in a similar timeframe, it looks like they didn't plan appropriate reserves - the other thing I recall is a florida law passed regarding reserves.  I don't recall the details, but certain reserves would be mandatory, and had to be budgeted, but a full rehab might not have been among those things required.

There are also other factors coming into play - not just the cost, but of when to schedule the refurbs, and how long they take.  Each unit is scheduled to be out of service just one or two weeks a year (1 year at OLCC).  If it will take 6 weeks to refurb a unit, that means the entire section of the resort must be done over 6 years - and that doesn't allow for any units to be unavailable due to emergency situations.  That means that every unit not being refurbed must be available for occupancy!  If it takes 8 week, that means and 8-year cycle for the whole section.

Then factor in costs - we paid for our refurb over the 240 plan, a few dollars extra each year.  Vistana owners may have had lower fees over those years (though I don't think they actually did), but got stuck with a big bill.  As for the DVD players and internet, those are decisions made by the owner-controlled HOA.  Internet access is not truly a necessary utility yet, so shouldn't be part of maintenance fees.  DVD players are likely to replace VCRs over time, but even the need for those is diminishing, as many families travel with personal DVD players.

It is true that the needs of each traveler is different, and thus the factors that will make a break an exchange experience.  But each time you think of what you wish a given resort had, maybe also consider what it does have than some (or many) other resorts don't have, and that maybe the owners chose that feature over the one you would have chosen.  All those amenities and features everyone wants at these resorts cost money, and it is the owners that pay for them.  One of the mantras here is to buy at a resort with relatively low maintenance fees, but if we all vote to keep our own fees down, shouldn't we expect other owners to do the same?  Parhaps the owners at OLCC have not pushed for internet resort-wide because #1 we would be the ones paying for both the infrastructure and the ongoing costs, and #2 because we go to OLCC to get away from home and work - for a *VACATION *:whoopie: - and we don't need to be plugged in 24 hours a day.  The reality is we spend most of our time at the parks and in the pools.


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## rickandcindy23 (Aug 24, 2008)

We have added free high-speed, wireless internet to Twin Rivers (in Fraser CO, icebox of the lower 48) because we wanted to make sure that exchangers noticed those things because frankly, Twin Rivers doesn't offer many amenities.  A bump in II and RCI scores for electronics is the least we could do..  

I think it's an important thing to offer, especially when so many people bring laptops on vacation.  I will still post sightings when we are at Disney's Boardwalk Villas in September (we will pay $9.95 per day for that privilege, so I better take advantage of it).


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## timetraveler (Aug 24, 2008)

whew!!!!   Thanks Mel.  My wrists and fingers thank you!!!!

I'm sure your fingers are sore after that detailed post.  Great explanation!


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## Sea Six (Aug 24, 2008)

I hope you don't really believe that any annual assessments accounted for not only the replacement costs of refurbishments, but for the upgrades in materials and technology that would be expected.  If your unit has laminated formica countertops and cabinets, don't believe your annual reserve over all these years was based on upgrading to solid granite or Corian countertops and solid woods.  Your TVs were never funded to be replaced with an HDTV flat screen, LCD OR plasma.  There was no plan for free WIFI when there was no such thing when the unit was built.  We have new expectations in high end units, and if that is what you want, there will be an assessment on top of your annual fees to make that happen.  If you've owned a unit for many years and these new things appear at no additional charge to you, then you HAVE been paying too much for your maintenance fees over the years, or there is a funding issue.  The fees you pay are based on replacement costs over expected lifetimes, not upgrades to the ultimate in technology when the need arrises.


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## timetraveler (Aug 24, 2008)

OL's maintenance fees are among the lowest of any Orlando timeshare, Sea Six.  Always have been.  So, no we have not been paying too much in fees over the years.   And I'm not at all sure what you mean by a "funding issue".


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## borntotravel (Aug 24, 2008)

We have never gotten a special assessment since we have owned.  I had inquired about this prior to purchasing our resale, and they told me it is built into the maintenance fees and they NEVER issue assessments for it.  Actually, it makes sense.  If you plan accordingly (which they obviously did), all the money that goes into that fund is earning interest.  There should be lots of it in the fund since each unit is not refurbished each year.  Obviously this is one timeshare that didn't just build a timeshare, but actually built a timeshare resort and planned for the future.


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## MiaSRN62 (Aug 25, 2008)

Just got back and stayed in a newly remodeled/refurb'd Fountains I villa :


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## rickandcindy23 (Aug 25, 2008)

Wow!  That is some great refurbishment at Vistana!  Love the dark wood (cannot believe I am saying that).  It looks very rich in there.  How are the bathtubs?  Do they still have a nice whirlpool?  

Did you ask for a refurbished unit, or did they just assign it to you?


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## gjw007 (Aug 25, 2008)

Maria,

I like the looks at the Fountains but I liked it when I was there 5 years ago.

SeaSix,

You have a point as technology changes but let's take you up on using granite rather than formica counter tops and flat screen versus CRTs.  After remodeling my house which is over 1450 sq ft, the cost of these is less than $10,000, so I'll use $10,000.  Just to provide options, let's say they were to paid immediately, the HOA decided 5 years before the renovations were to be done to do the upgrades, and the decision was made 10 years out rather than 5 year.


Time: Owners pay immediately,
Cost: $10,000
Number of units:  50 (2 weeks are kept by developer)
Cost per week: $10,000 / 50 = $200 on the maintenance bill

Time:  Owner pay over 5 years
Cost:  $10,000
Number of units:  50 * 5 = 250
Cost per year:  $40 added to maintenance bill

Time:  Owner pays over 10 years
Cost:  $10,000
Number of Units:  50 * 10 = 500
Cost per year:  $20 per year

As seen, if the HOA does its planning and puts money into the reserves, it doesn't have to break the owners bank in addition to the replacement maintenance fees if there is a decision to upgrade certain areas.  What some may see as upgrades may actually have been planned.  The difference is how Vistana and OLCC handled this should provide some light on the importance of planning.

As far as Internet access, there are two schools of thought out there.  The one you proposed where the owner fork out the cost of Internet so that it is free and available to all.  This is true even if the owner doesn't use it.  The second option is that it is an option that only those who use it should pay for it.  OLCC has implemented this version. DVC as an example has also done this until recently when owners staying on points no longer have to pay for Internet access.  Neither method is right or wrong as it is ultimately a choice the owners have to make and if they are happy with the decision, then it is the right way to go.

It's hard for me to see a justification for some of the special assessment.  I was looking at Fairfield property in Williamsburg but they had 3 years of special assessments to cover the renovation costs.  Cypress Pointe had its special assessment as well as several others.  I can't help but see these as red flags where the management hasn't done its job.


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## borntotravel (Aug 25, 2008)

The refurbished units at The Fountains do look very nice!


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## timeos2 (Aug 25, 2008)

*Any resort can have an SA - why & what they do about it makes the difference*



gjw007 said:


> It's hard for me to see a justification for some of the special assessment.  I was looking at Fairfield property in Williamsburg but they had 3 years of special assessments to cover the renovation costs.  Cypress Pointe had its special assessment as well as several others.  I can't help but see these as red flags where the management hasn't done its job.



That is correct - many (in fact I'd hazard a guess that it's actually most) resorts do have a SA at some point.  The key is why and what was done to ensure that was really a emergency and not just bad planning and/or a one time catch up collection to right the ship.  If the Association followed up with basic changes such as realistic fees for reserves going forward or a change in management (or both) then the underlying problem will hopefully be solved and the future needs will be funded properly.  I worry if the SAME group - management and/or Board - that let it occur the first time is still in place when the SA goes out. Did they really learn a lesson or are they SA junkies? 
A legitimate SA can happen and can be excused. A pattern of living off them is a very big red flag.


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## Mel (Aug 25, 2008)

Sea Six said:


> I hope you don't really believe that any annual assessments accounted for not only the replacement costs of refurbishments, but for the upgrades in materials and technology that would be expected.  If your unit has laminated formica countertops and cabinets, don't believe your annual reserve over all these years was based on upgrading to solid granite or Corian countertops and solid woods.  Your TVs were never funded to be replaced with an HDTV flat screen, LCD OR plasma.  There was no plan for free WIFI when there was no such thing when the unit was built.  We have new expectations in high end units, and if that is what you want, there will be an assessment on top of your annual fees to make that happen.  If you've owned a unit for many years and these new things appear at no additional charge to you, then you HAVE been paying too much for your maintenance fees over the years, or there is a funding issue.  The fees you pay are based on replacement costs over expected lifetimes, not upgrades to the ultimate in technology when the need arrises.


The cost of upgrades is not that major, when replacement has already been planned.  As already explained, if the decision to go with solid granite was made 5 years before the actual refurb, the amount going into reserve could spread over those 5 years - or even longer if the refurb is spread over several years.  You wouldn't need full funding until just before the final phase.  Given that those countertops were planned to be replaced, you're only talking about the upgrade cost.  Even if that were $5100 per unit (highly unlikely), that comes to $100 per unit (we have 51 week occupancy).  Spread over 10 years that comes to $10 increase in annual fees per year.  For the televisions, the same applies - the have to be replaced, so you already have the money for a smaller set, and just have to pay an upgrade fee.  Then there's the question of which upgrades you make.  Do you need to go with solid granite?  In a regular home, you might want to go with such an upgrade because you will be using it every day.  But I doubt a granite countertop is going to make a significant difference in the trade power, and if I use my unit, I have to ask the question of whether the price difference is worth it for 1 week a year.

As for internet, if we install the infrastructure it needs to be done for ALL units, with the assumption that peak access needs will allow for ALL units (and maybe even 2 computers per unit) to be able to access at the same time.  That means significant bandwidth.  If we have enough bandwidth for 10% of the units to access at once, how happy will exchangers be when everything slows down because 30% are trying to access at the same time?  I realize there is an economy of size, if we try to provide access for everyone, but how much will it really cost?  Should all owners, some of whom won't use the access, pay $5 extra per week - plus the installation costs?  

What about charging a weekly fee?  Well, you still need the capacity for ALL the units.  So the resort pays up front for all units to have access, and is reimbursed by guests who subscribe.  But what rate do you charge, and what percentage of guests do you expect to subscribe?  if 20% subscribe, that $5 per week just jumped to $25 per subscribed user.  But will 20% really pay that, if they don't really need it for the week?  So maybe we're talking 10%, and then the cost jumps to $50 for the week... see where I'm going?


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