# Temporary 50% reduction in the Hilton Honors Points conversion ratios [REDUCTION LIFTED A/O JAN 1, 2021] [MERGED]



## natarajanv (Aug 21, 2020)

*Hilton Conversion Ratios*
Saving this unprecedent number of ClubPoints for free for so many of you creates increased challenges for HGV. In consideration of this and the need to mitigate some of the impact from COVID-19, there will be a temporary 50% reduction in the Hilton Honors Points conversion ratios. This includes 2020 ClubPoints used toward a Hilton hotel reservation, and 2020 and 2021 ClubPoints converted to Hilton Honors Points. Please know this is a temporary adjustment – we plan to reinstate the full conversion ratio in 2021.


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## PigsDad (Aug 21, 2020)

It was seldom a good deal before, and even less so now.  Won't affect me, as I never convert my HGVC points to Honors.

Kurt


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## Cyberc (Aug 21, 2020)

PigsDad said:


> It was seldom a good deal before, and even less so now.  Won't affect me, as I never convert my HGVC points to Honors.
> 
> Kurt


I agree. For the past many years it wasn’t a good deal and now it’s even worse.


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## brp (Aug 21, 2020)

When I read this title, I thought it was not really worded correctly, but really mean that it was the other way, i.e. 50% of the HGVC points for a given number of HHonors points, i.e. a doubling of the ratio. Seems to me that they would want to encourage folks to move HGVC points to HHonors to reduce the future burden on  HGVC with a currency that is spread over many more locations. This seems backwards to me.

Cheers.


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## kanerf (Aug 21, 2020)

I will do like I am doing with my DVC points, get larger or more expensive rooms next year than I normally would to use up the extra points that I will have.


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## brp (Aug 21, 2020)

kanerf said:


> I will do like I am doing with my DVC points, get larger or more expensive rooms next year than I normally would to use up the extra points that I will have.



We even did that this year with DVC as we always have a few more points than we need. Got a 1BR instead of studio. Usually we get a 2BR, and family comes, but not this year. Then sister-in-law decided to come after all...and we have room 

We have trips planned to use all DVC points this year. HGVC, not so much...

Cheers.


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## buzglyd (Aug 21, 2020)

brp said:


> When I read this title, I thought it was not really worded correctly, but really mean that it was the other way, i.e. 50% of the HGVC points for a given number of HHonors points, i.e. a doubling of the ratio. Seems to me that they would want to encourage folks to move HGVC points to HHonors to reduce the future burden on  HGVC with a currency that is spread over many more locations. This seems backwards to me.
> 
> Cheers.



I think they probably have to buy those points from Hilton and are probably a little short on the cash side offering all the fee discounts and waivers not to mention the reduction in sales do to the _[offensive term for Coronavirus removed <-- SueDonJ]_.


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## brp (Aug 21, 2020)

Interestingly, this is a coronavirus, and not at all a flu.

Cheers.


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## PigsDad (Aug 21, 2020)

brp said:


> When I read this title, I thought it was not really worded correctly, but really mean that it was the other way, i.e. 50% of the HGVC points for a given number of HHonors points, i.e. a doubling of the ratio. Seems to me that they would want to encourage folks to move HGVC points to HHonors to reduce the future burden on  HGVC with a currency that is spread over many more locations. This seems backwards to me.


My take is that this is probably coming as a result of pressure from Hilton.  Think about it -- Hilton probably has gotten burned in the last few months on the inventory that HGV had allocated to Hilton.  Many of HGV resorts have been closed, so Hilton has not been able to sell that inventory -- I'm sure they've taken a bath financially when they were expecting to rake in significant income this summer from popular places like HHV where they can command premium cash prices.

Kurt


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## Wright17s (Aug 21, 2020)

HGV has to pay Hilton to "purchase" the points upon conversion... this snippet is from their 2018 annual report ( can't find the 2019 on their investor website ).  It's noteworthy the amount of $ HGV paid Hilton for HHonors points in 2018 and 2017 ( $56m and $59m respectively ).  I'm sure the decreased ratio is because they can't afford to pay for a mass exodus of point conversions given the current environment.


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## dayooper (Aug 21, 2020)

PigsDad said:


> My take is that this is probably coming as a result of pressure from Hilton.  Think about it -- Hilton probably has gotten burned in the last few months on the inventory that HGV had allocated to Hilton.  Many of HGV resorts have been closed, so Hilton has not been able to sell that inventory -- I'm sure they've taken a bath financially when they were expecting to rake in significant income this summer from popular places like HHV where they can command premium cash prices.
> 
> Kurt



This. They have so many rooms not being booked, they don’t need more rooms from HGVC just sitting there. Then throw in the glut of points being converted and used, potentially years from now, when they didn’t book the rooms they were exchanged for.


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## GT75 (Aug 21, 2020)

I rather Hilton and HGV do this than devalue my existing Hilton Honors points (especially since I won't utilize this option).


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## Sebastiantheibis (Aug 21, 2020)

BAIT AND SWITCH 
AS A W57th OWNER, 50% Redction in HH points is not what I agreed to when purchasing in NEW YORK with its higher price and maintenance fees.
HGVC is using the pandemic as an a excuse to RIP OFF WEST 57th owners.
Time for a class action against HGVC.



PigsDad said:


> My take is that this is probably coming as a result of pressure from Hilton.  Think about it -- Hilton probably has gotten burned in the last few months on the inventory that HGV had allocated to Hilton.  Many of HGV resorts have been closed, so Hilton has not been able to sell that inventory -- I'm sure they've taken a bath financially when they were expecting to rake in significant income this summer from popular places like HHV where they can command premium cash prices.
> 
> Kurt


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## Sebastiantheibis (Aug 21, 2020)

PigsDad said:


> It was seldom a good deal before, and even less so now.  Won't affect me, as I never convert my HGVC points to Honors.
> 
> Kurt



BAIT SND SWITCH
HGVC is ripping off W57th owners


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## PigsDad (Aug 21, 2020)

Sebastiantheibis said:


> BAIT SND SWITCH
> HGVC is ripping off W57th owners


Umm, it's a 50% reduction for _all _owners, not just W57th owners.  Yes, it sucks, but it is clearly in the terms of service that HGV can change the program rules at any time.  The only thing your deed entitles you to is what you own, not the club perks.  We all knew those risks when signing on the dotted line, and if we didn't, it just means we didn't read and/or understand what we were signing.  I'm not defending what HGV is doing, but just pointing out it is a risk we all take.  That's life.

Kurt


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## Talent312 (Aug 22, 2020)

I understand why those who've used the 50:1 ratio at HC resorts would be ticked.
When HGVC and Hilton Worldwide became separate entities, the HH tie-in was on thin-ice.
I suspect that, If HGVC is acquired by a 3rd party, it could disappear entirely.
.


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## Sebastiantheibis (Aug 22, 2020)

Talent312 said:


> I understand why those who've used the 50:1 ratio at HC resorts would be ticked.
> When HGVC and Hilton Worldwide became separate entities, the HH tie-in was on thin-ice.
> I suspect that, If HGVC is acquired by a 3rd party, it could disappear entirely.
> .


HGVC uses the 50:1 ratio to entice and convince consumers to buy into the over priced units.
HGVC represents that the 50:1 conversion is a material value of the purchase 
This is likely illegal as it is not in the terms
DO NOT BUY HGVC


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## tombanjo (Aug 22, 2020)

I guess you're right, it would be better to go bankrupt and everyone lose their investment than to cut a "perk" during this time when hotels and businesses are closing left and right. I think you should demand HGVC plays strictly by the rules, 2019 points are to be used in 2019, or they go poof, 2020 points are to be used in 2020 or they go poof. Everyone has an opportunity to use their points, places are open for business, so stick by the rules !!!


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## SmithOp (Aug 22, 2020)

Sebastiantheibis said:


> HGVC uses the 50:1 ratio to entice and convince consumers to buy into the over priced units.
> HGVC represents that the 50:1 conversion is a material value of the purchase
> This is likely illegal as it is not in the terms
> DO NOT BUY HGVC



Calm down, verbal commitments aren’t binding, no basis for a lawsuit.

Its temporary, we are all suffering the effects of this pandemic.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro


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## Tamaradarann (Aug 22, 2020)

tombanjo said:


> I guess you're right, it would be better to go bankrupt and everyone lose their investment than to cut a "perk" during this time when hotels and businesses are closing left and right. I think you should demand HGVC plays strictly by the rules, 2019 points are to be used in 2019, or they go poof, 2020 points are to be used in 2020 or they go poof. Everyone has an opportunity to use their points, places are open for business, so stick by the rules !!!



This Virus has been bad for everyone.  Businesses, people who are furloughed by businesses, and, of course, those who get very ill or die and those that are close to them have been hurt the most.  Hotel and Timeshares who have so many empty rooms during this period should step up and relize that people are not coming to their accommodation because they are closed, prevented by travel restrictions, or a afraid.  Therefore, to get people going again in the near future they should be as accomodating as they can be.


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## bobbi_1217 (Aug 22, 2020)

The email is a bit confusing, "and 2020 and 2021 ClubPoints converted to Hilton Honors Points. Please know this is a temporary adjustment – we plan to reinstate the full conversion ratio in 2021". It states this affects 2020 AND 2021 club points but also states they plan to reinstate the conversion rate in 2021. Are they saying that they will reinstate in 2021 but only for 2022 and on?


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## SmithOp (Aug 22, 2020)

bobbi_1217 said:


> The email is a bit confusing, "and 2020 and 2021 ClubPoints converted to Hilton Honors Points. Please know this is a temporary adjustment – we plan to reinstate the full conversion ratio in 2021". It states this affects 2020 AND 2021 club points but also states they plan to reinstate the conversion rate in 2021. Are they saying that they will reinstate in 2021 but only for 2022 and on?


Correct.

Convert future year points (2021) was 25:1 or 50:1 for bHC.

Convert current year points (2020) was 20:1.

So in January converting future year will be 2022 points.

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk


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## Pathways (Aug 22, 2020)

Sebastiantheibis said:


> HGVC uses the 50:1 ratio to entice and convince consumers to buy into the over priced units.
> HGVC represents that the 50:1 conversion is a material value of the purchase
> This is likely illegal as it is not in the terms
> DO NOT BUY HGVC



Seriously? Do not buy HGVC?  They are one of the best of the top tier. 

Sales uses MANY hooks to entice - anyone who buys based on a conversion that can be DISCONTINUED at any time is simply not doing their due-diligence. 

And their announcement commits to reinstating the higher rate sometime in 2021, which means no one really losses anything, just a delay.

Sebastiantheibis - I have a suggestion.  Offer to give up the extra points banking/saving that HGVC gave owners in exchange for re-instating the full conversion value.  My bet is 95% of owners would say - 'we don't care about the 50% reduction.

It's really very simple, they allowed everyone to save points that would have been lost, but they want them used for their original purpose - HGVC rooms.  Any conversion to HH points costs HGVC cash - not good during a pandemic. 

I agree completely and support their decision.


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## GT75 (Aug 22, 2020)

Honestly, I think that HGVC has been very fair in dealing with its owners (allowing cancellations/waving fees to save points).   They could have taken a much different tack.    I think that @Wright17s (link) gave the reasons why HGVC is reducing Hilton Honors points temporarily by 50%.  (JMO).


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## brp (Aug 22, 2020)

Sebastiantheibis said:


> HGVC uses the 50:1 ratio to entice and convince consumers to buy into the over priced units.
> HGVC represents that the 50:1 conversion is a material value of the purchase
> This is likely illegal as it is not in the terms
> DO NOT BUY HGVC



Wow, I hope you're kidding.  If anything that was said to you by a salesweasel is what convinced you to buy, then you really have no one to blame but yourself. Sorry, sounds harsh, but it's the truth. What's in the contract os all you purchased.

It is quite reasonable to buy HGVC if one goes in with eyes open and knows that they're actually getting.

Besides, at any ratio doing the conversion is a sucker bet.

Cheers.


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## ljmiii (Aug 23, 2020)

Sebastiantheibis said:


> DO NOT BUY HGVC


I don't know when you bought HGVC and I don't want to beat a dead horse. But I do want one thing to be clear - Of the three systems (HGVC, DVC, MVCI) I own, HGVC has treated its owners best over the past decade and a half. And by far, treated its owners best through the disruptions caused by COVID-19.

If someone is thinking about timesharing in general and can accept the locations offered by HGVC, HGVC is indeed the one to buy. 

(Of course, the future is uncertain and you could argue that in the case of an acquisition HGVC has the farthest to fall. But for now HGVC is a great choice).


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## Wright17s (Aug 23, 2020)

Sebastiantheibis said:


> HGVC uses the 50:1 ratio to entice and convince consumers to buy into the over priced units.
> HGVC represents that the 50:1 conversion is a material value of the purchase
> This is likely illegal as it is not in the terms
> DO NOT BUY HGVC



The HGVC Club Rules have always said the "perks" such as RCI exchange, Hilton Honors program, reservation windows, etc. are subject to change without notice.  This has been the case for as long as I've been an owner... you can't get mad at HGVC for executing what they have the right to do as specified in their terms & conditions just because you didn't read them before you purchased.  All the more reason to be a TUG member and spend months researching before you jump in, you'll be happier in the long run.

Personally, I think HGVC has done an excellent job navigating the current environment... keep in mind all of us "owners" pay for all of the benefits in one way or another as HGVC has no other source of income other than what we pay for with sales, various club fees, etc. so if they weren't financially smart it would be passed on to us in the future.

This is a snippet from the HGVC 2020 Club Rules:


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## Sebastiantheibis (Aug 23, 2020)

tombanjo said:


> I guess you're right, it would be better to go bankrupt and everyone lose their investment than to cut a "perk" during this time when hotels and businesses are closing left and right. I think you should demand HGVC plays strictly by the rules, 2019 points are to be used in 2019, or they go poof, 2020 points are to be used in 2020 or they go poof. Everyone has an opportunity to use their points, places are open for business, so stick by the rules !!!


HGVC is not getting any sympathy from me
I think they are manipulating a national tragedy into an opportunity for more profits, and us owners are not their concern...


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## Sebastiantheibis (Aug 23, 2020)

Thank you
Do you have a copy of said rules from 2006?
Timeshare operations are marginal at best, and very close to Pay Dsy loan operations...


Wright17s said:


> The HGVC Club Rules have always said the "perks" such as RCI exchange, Hilton Honors program, reservation windows, etc. are subject to change without notice.  This has been the case for as long as I've been an owner... you can't get mad at HGVC for executing what they have the right to do as specified in their terms & conditions just because you didn't read them before you purchased.  All the more reason to be a TUG member and spend months researching before you jump in, you'll be happier in the long run.
> 
> Personally, I think HGVC has done an excellent job navigating the current environment... keep in mind all of us "owners" pay for all of the benefits in one way or another as HGVC has no other source of income other than what we pay for with sales, various club fees, etc. so if they weren't financially smart it would be passed on to us in the future.
> 
> ...


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## Wright17s (Aug 23, 2020)

Sebastiantheibis said:


> Thank you
> Do you have a copy of said rules from 2006?
> Timeshare operations are marginal at best, and very close to Pay Dsy loan operations...


I don't have a copy of the 2006 club rules, but 2018 and 2019 had the exact same verbiage.


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## Ckhawaii (Aug 23, 2020)

Sebastiantheibis said:


> HGVC is not getting any sympathy from me
> I think they are manipulating a national tragedy into an opportunity for more profits, and us owners are not their concern...



wrong. Go read the HGV Q2 report. They are not making any type of profit. If the ship sinks, us owners go down with it.


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## Sebastiantheibis (Aug 23, 2020)

ljmiii said:


> I don't know when you bought HGVC and I don't want to beat a dead horse. But I do want one thing to be clear - Of the three systems (HGVC, DVC, MVCI) I own, HGVC has treated its owners best over the past decade and a half. And by far, treated its owners best through the disruptions caused by COVID-19.
> 
> If someone is thinking about timesharing in general and can accept the locations offered by HGVC, HGVC is indeed the one to buy.
> 
> (Of course, the future is uncertain and you could argue that in the case of an acquisition HGVC has the farthest to fall. But for now HGVC is a great choice).


Thank you


Wright17s said:


> I don't have a copy of the 2006 club rules, but 2018 and 2019 had the exact same verbiage.


Thank you. I appreciate your input. I just regret ever getting into the timeshare conundrum. Poor me. Stupid me. My stupid decision. But it is a worthless and frivolous spend: I Don know of any more convoluted consumer product. Even if you bought a car worth $10K, it would be very unlikely in 5 years, that it would be worth $1.00. Friends don’t let friends buy timeshares....


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## brp (Aug 23, 2020)

Sebastiantheibis said:


> Friends don’t let friends buy timeshares....



Very interesting viewpoint. But I agree that timeshares are not for everyone. For those that can make it work to our advantage it is a great purchase. But, again, not for everyone.

Cheers.


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## dayooper (Aug 23, 2020)

Sebastiantheibis said:


> HGVC is not getting any sympathy from me
> I think they are manipulating a national tragedy into an opportunity for more profits, and us owners are not their concern...





Ckhawaii said:


> wrong. Go read the HGV Q2 report. They are not making any type of profit. If the ship sinks, us owners go down with it.



Here is the link to the discussion from earlier this summer. There’s a link to the Motley Fool transcript from the investor call.

I empathize with your situation. You bought into a system under false pretenses. The value has dropped. I agree, the sales department is deplorable. With that being said, the actual vacation portion of the system is very good. We have enjoyed our vacations immensely with HGVC and look forward to many more.

You mentioned you own at W57th. Do you owe anything on it? These deeds are usually worth more than $1. If you do a little research, you might find out it’s worth more than you think. Still a fraction of what you paid, but not $1. I’m sure if wanted to rid your self, you could find a buyer.


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## dayooper (Aug 23, 2020)

Sebastiantheibis said:


> Friends don’t let friends buy timeshares....



(FIFY) Friends don’t let friends buy from the developer.


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## Wright17s (Aug 23, 2020)

Sebastiantheibis said:


> Thank you. I appreciate your input. I just regret ever getting into the timeshare conundrum. Poor me. Stupid me. My stupid decision. But it is a worthless and frivolous spend: I Don know of any more convoluted consumer product. Even if you bought a car worth $10K, it would be very unlikely in 5 years, that it would be worth $1.00. Friends don’t let friends buy timeshares....


I'm sending good vacation vibes your way for 2021 @Sebastiantheibis!


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## 2Times (Aug 25, 2020)

Sebastiantheibis said:


> Thank you
> 
> Thank you. I appreciate your input. I just regret ever getting into the timeshare conundrum. Poor me. Stupid me. My stupid decision. But it is a worthless and frivolous spend: I Don know of any more convoluted consumer product. Even if you bought a car worth $10K, it would be very unlikely in 5 years, that it would be worth $1.00. Friends don’t let friends buy timeshares....
> 
> ...


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## Pathways (Aug 25, 2020)

2Times said:


> ll



Did I miss what you had to say?


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## PigsDad (Aug 25, 2020)

Note to @Pathways -- you can see form the original quote that @2Times words were everything after the first major paragraph



2Times said:


> I also own at W57th and bought the property unseen just a few months before it officially opened. I was comfortable with the sales pitch I received and had owned timeshares since the mid 80' so I got the gist of it. A glorified time-share. Okay, a nice time-share built by a classy Hotel group, in New York City. I get it. We have actually only used West 57th two times over the last 10-11 years since *we prefer converting to HH Points. At 50:1 how could I not.*


Can you give us examples of how Honors point conversion, even at 50:1, is a good deal?  Most people say it is not.  Add up all your MFs, dues and fees, then divide that by the number of Honors points you get, and then show how many Honors points it takes for your Hilton Hotels reservations and what the best cash price would have been for those same reservation.  I'm honestly curious how that calculation works out for you.



> I have always thought of Hilton Brand Hotels as upper tier hotel products. This is a move I would have expected from a lower tier Hotel family. My thoughts are that if HGVC is devaluing our point value by 50% due to current economic situations, it will prove to be a short sighted decision. *I would have accepted and even agreed with a year to year decision about point values, but apparently they feel that a long term decision will best serve their interests.* Loyal owners will have to "take what they get", and wait to see if it improves. Hmmm, does that sound dire? Do I sound bitter?



As was stated in the announcement, this Honors point conversion reduction is temporary.  I'm not seeing it as a "long term decision" as you seem to be doing.  I'm confused by your statement here.

Kurt


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## tombanjo (Aug 25, 2020)

HH points are worth about .5 cents apiece. I can’t possibly see how they are any sort of value to convert to. With careful booking and planning, you can get some good deals occasionally, but mostly they come out to $50/$100/much more than booking normally. So many people have the credit cards that there are lots of points floating around and you get a free weekend too. With my bHC points I was booked for the Quin for opening and am very bummed NYC still has a 14 day quarantine and I had to cancel. Using W57th is a real bargain. The Conrad across from HCNY is $700+ a night in season. I paid for a Hilton garden inn in Times Square off season for like $150 which is pretty good deal, but points were far more than cash was.
Sorry it doesn’t fit you, but maybe you can find someone to trade off line for those sweet sweet points you crave. Your lose is their gain.


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## BK2019 (Aug 25, 2020)

dayooper said:


> (FIFY) Friends don’t let friends buy from the developer.


Any one who suggests buying a timeshare from a developer is not a friend. Though I would love to see those friends on Judge Judy.


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## brp (Aug 25, 2020)

BK2019 said:


> Any one who suggests buying a timeshare from a developer is not a friend. Though I would love to see those friends on Judge Judy.



Except from DVC where it can make sense since prices have actually gone up on resales and are competitive with Direct in a number of cases.

Cheers.


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## Sandy VDH (Aug 25, 2020)

Out of all the timeshare point systems out there, I think that HGVC has been the earliest to act, have done the best they can to help owners with points, allowing already saved points to be saved another year (no charge),  allowing reservations to be cancelled and all funds and points returned, are allowing us to save 2020 points into 2021 (no charge), allowed us to make free reservations for a period of time (no charge).   All of these things I utilized this year.

It is a cash flow issue to minimize the flow of points in 2020 and 2021 into HH points.  It costs them money to buy those points from Hilton.  I don't begrudge the TEMPORARY nature of this issue to stop them from a large hemorrhage of cash.  Now I don't care because I generally don't think this is a good use of points, and this was not a selling point for me in acquiring my HGVC points.

A lot of other timeshares operations have not been so good, so communicative, and for proactive doing something.  I would rather give them kudos instead of vitriol.  But everyone is entitled to their own opinion.


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## BK2019 (Aug 25, 2020)

brp said:


> Except from DVC where it can make sense since prices have actually gone up on resales and are competitive with Direct in a number of cases.
> 
> Cheers.


Can’t argue with that I love  my DVC contract and always bring it up to my fellow  Disney junkies.


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## BK2019 (Aug 25, 2020)

I think Hilton has taken care of their customers the best through this crisis. They just have a lot of ill will due to their sales team.


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## PigsDad (Aug 26, 2020)

BK2019 said:


> I think Hilton has taken care of their customers the best through this crisis. They just have a lot of ill will due to their sales team.


I would agree.  I separate the sales team from the rest of HGV.  It's not hard to do, as you really have no need to ever interact with the sales team unless you choose to do so.  Personally, I haven't attended a sales presentation in 15 years; it just makes vacationing so much better.

Kurt


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## DazedandConfused (Aug 28, 2020)

Who else thinks this conversion will also apply to 2022 points???


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## escanoe (Aug 28, 2020)

I don't think it will last beyond travel being significantly curtailed due to the pandemic-recession (I call it pancession). I know we all value different things from HGVC, but this is not a benefit that is of any concern to me. 



DazedandConfused said:


> Who else thinks this conversion will also apply to 2022 points???


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## dayooper (Aug 28, 2020)

DazedandConfused said:


> Who else thinks this conversion will also apply to 2022 points???



If travel is somewhat back to normal next year, no I don’t think it will be. If it’s still limited, then the lowered conversion ratio may still be in effect.


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## Tamaradarann (Aug 29, 2020)

Sandy VDH said:


> Out of all the timeshare point systems out there, I think that HGVC has been the earliest to act, have done the best they can to help owners with points, allowing already saved points to be saved another year (no charge),  allowing reservations to be cancelled and all funds and points returned, are allowing us to save 2020 points into 2021 (no charge), allowed us to make free reservations for a period of time (no charge).   All of these things I utilized this year.
> 
> It is a cash flow issue to minimize the flow of points in 2020 and 2021 into HH points.  It costs them money to buy those points from Hilton.  I don't begrudge the TEMPORARY nature of this issue to stop them from a large hemorrhage of cash.  Now I don't care because I generally don't think this is a good use of points, and this was not a selling point for me in acquiring my HGVC points.
> 
> A lot of other timeshares operations have not been so good, so communicative, and for proactive doing something.  I would rather give them kudos instead of vitriol.  But everyone is entitled to their own opinion.



I agree with the sentiment of your thinking here.  I don't know if it actually costs them money to buy the HH points when there is a conversion or that they just give up a timeshare unit to HH in exchange.  However, during this pandemic both Hilton Hotels and HGVC have a surplus of rooms with few customers or as in Hawaii are shutdown completely.  Therefore, whenever the travel hiatus comes to an end HGVC wants members to have and use their points in HGVC resorts for the good of their resorts and resort staff who have been furloughed or underutilized.  Allowing HGVC members to save points to a future year furthers this endeavor.  Members converting their points to Hilton Honors does not.


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## Tamaradarann (Aug 29, 2020)

BK2019 said:


> I think Hilton has taken care of their customers the best through this crisis. They just have a lot of ill will due to their sales team.



I agree.  You need to separate your focus and thinking here into 2 separate issues:

1. Consider the price you paid from the developer or the price you paid or would have paid buying resale 
2. Consider the price you paid resale for an HGVC timeshare and the benefits of owning HGVC during normal times not Covid times which everyone hates 

If your problem is with 1 then your problem is with the sales team tempting and urging you with a developer purchase.

If your problem is with 2 then you should not be owning HGVC or perhaps any timeshare since this is not for you regardless of purchase price.


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## tombanjo (Aug 29, 2020)

At some point it might make sense to ease the conversion to reduce the points overload from people not being able to use their points, and take advantage of greater availability for empty hotel rooms


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## Tamaradarann (Aug 29, 2020)

tombanjo said:


> At some point it might make sense to ease the conversion to reduce the points overload from people not being able to use their points, and take advantage of greater availability for empty hotel rooms



The overload will always be on the most sought after resorts.  Hawaii, NYC, Miami South Beach, Utah and Colorado in the winter etc.  With the overabundance of Las Vegas and Orlando availability all the resorts will never be overloaded except during very special periods, some may.  Therefore, you will be able to use your points but there will be limits to where you can use them.  After the Virus starts to slow down more there will be plenty of time before everyone will be comfortable vacationing again so the increase will not be as drastic as one might think.


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## bogey21 (Aug 29, 2020)

Tamaradarann said:


> Allowing HGVC members to save points to a future year furthers this endeavor.


Isn't the risk in doing this is that in future years there will be too many Points chasing limited availability...

George


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## Tamaradarann (Aug 30, 2020)

bogey21 said:


> Isn't the risk in doing this is that in future years there will be too many Points chasing limited availability...
> 
> George



This is not a positive thing from a member perspective, it is HGVC trying to regain the occupancy traffic that it has had at its resorts.  As I mentioned in a subsequent post, certain locations and resorts will fill up first, however, the less sought after locations and resorts need volume to stay viable so at this time and in the foreseeable future so they need members to start to travel and fill up all of the resorts to try to get back to some type of normalcy.


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## Tamaradarann (Aug 30, 2020)

Tamaradarann said:


> This is not a positive thing from a member perspective, it is HGVC trying to regain the occupancy traffic that it has had at its resorts.  As I mentioned in a subsequent post, certain locations and resorts will fill up first, however, the less sought after locations and resorts need volume to stay viable so at this time and in the foreseeable future so they need members to start to travel and fill up all of the resorts to try to get back to some type of normalcy.



I would add, that yes if and when HGVC sees all of its resorts getting really full again they will be urging members to use their points for HH conversions and other points partners like they did before.  I wish that was in a few month, or like the beginning of 2021, but  It may not be for years.


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## pianodinosaur (Sep 2, 2020)

Cruises Only offers HGVC bonus points when you purchase a cruise via our HHONORS credit cards directly rather than through an HGVC redemption.   Cruises Only offers BONVOY multiple points Bonuses if you purchase the cruise using a Bonvoy credit card.  HHONORS points and BONVOY points are not identical.  I have cruised on multiple occasions via HGVC redemptions because I could only take so much time off from work.  Now that I am retired, it appears that the most economical use of HGVC points is for timesharing rather than for cruising as it always has been.  We enjoy both cruising and timesharing.

We had planned a Greek Island Cruise  out of Rome that we should have been on right now were it not for COVID-19 .  This was paid via an HGVC redemption in order to celebrate my retirement and our anniversary.  We had also booked a 5 day stay at the Hilton Rome Cavalieri via a HHONORS redemption.  Royal Caribbean is suppose to give me a 125% Cruise credit for a Holy land cruise next year.  There have been no problems with HHONORS regarding cancellation and the rescheduling.

Given the current circumstances it seems that our future Cruise plans may be booked via BONVOY using a  Bonvoy credit card rather than HHONORS using a HHONORS credit card.  Family circumstances, health, and future point devaluations may change all that.  I remain a happy HGVC member though I am disappointed in the conversion devaluation.   I have only converted HGVC points to HHONORS points once in 20 years due to family health circumstances.


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## Shmiddy (Sep 4, 2020)

Not mentioned in the OP is that HGVC is carrying over 2020 unused points into 2021 for free. (I didn't want to wade through the 50+ responses so don't slam me if this has already been pointed out)
*Today, I'm happy to share that the end of this year, we will automatically save any remaining 2020 ClubPoints into 2021 at no cost to you. This will continue to provide you with the flexibility to decide when travel is right for you. If you are ready to book a 2021 reservation now using your 2020 Points, you can visit the website and save your Points at no cost. If you already paid to save your 2020 Points into 2021, you will receive a refund of the amount paid. As a reminder, your account must be in good standing to use your Points and to check-in at a resort. *
Obviously, they want to prevent folks from gaming the system and just converting all their 2020 points into HHonors and flooding the system. If converting is so important to you, wait till next year and just convert your 2021 points - if you're like most of us, you weren't able to use your 2020 points so you will have double your allotment next year.


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## traveling (Sep 8, 2020)

Am I the only one that thinks HGV totally messed over their HGV owners by suddenly (in a very small Stan Soroka (HGV Executive VP and Chief Customer Officer) August 21 announcement) cutting their HH conversion rate in half for all HGV owners, without exception (even their highest tier Elite Premier members) and without detailed explanation or rationale?  Normally I would have expected some consideration for their company's most loyal (highest paying) customers, at the very least, or perhaps.   In this newsletter, he states the reason for cutting the conversation ratio is to pay for giving everyone free transfer of club points from 2020 to 2021 and because COVID-19 impact was hard.  Interesting that nowhere on the shareholder calls nor anywhere else in their corporate documentation do they mention this conversion strategy as a corporate cost saving measure or what it is saving them.  Then, as if that announcement was not enough of an insult, they add in their FAQ "Consideration was given to suspending the Hilton Honors Points conversion program entirely for the remainder of the year.  However we instead decided to implement a 50% conversion ratio to continue providing this benefit to our Club Members."  From that, I guess we are to walk away smiling because the great HGV wizards have only stolen half our points this year.  Well, I am not amused!  I have searched everything in my contract for the fine print that says HGV can eliminate all benefits (not just this one) they promised us at any time they want (forever if they choose) and that everything they promised us for the thousands of dollars we paid and continue to pay is merely a temporary "gift" that can be withdrawn forever if HGV management so chooses.  Still, even with no HGV extras at all, the contract clearly offers no exceptions to the requirement for the owners to pay without fail or be subject to foreclosure.  I believe HGV has just dealt themselves a fatal shot buy letting their most loyal owners (and all others considering buying into HGV) know that everything they were promised in the contract can be withdrawn on a moments notice without negotiation--and there is nothing the owners can do about it.  I just learned that whatever you think is there today and what you think it may cost or convert for may not be there tomorrow or next year--its that simple.  Personally, I'm hoping that HGV reconsiders the magnitude of this decision and the repercussions of what they have done.  I would be interested to know how much of Stan Soroka's nearly $2 million in annual compensation is impacted by these cost-cutting measures or his boss's nearly $7 million in compensation, Mark Wang.  Mr Wang noted on his shareholder's call, "we reduced salaries for all team members and management across all levels of the organization.", but we don't know if that included him or Mr Soroka.   I hope that all concerned HGV owners will write to Mr Soroka and Wr Wang (as I am) to express your outrage and concerns over their overnight manipulation of your benefits that were promised for the exorbitant prices you continue to pay each year.  I would ask very blatantly, just exactly what benefits that you are now paying for are guaranteed???  IS HGV management at liberty to take all of them away on a moment's notice??  Is that the message that they want us to take to our friends and family and any interested buyers in this forum--or the internet??


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## Tamaradarann (Sep 8, 2020)

While this is not a positive thing from a member perspective, HGVC is trying everything to possible to keep occupancy traffic up and their resorts open and trying to open resorts that are closed.  Running a resort with only a few occupants is horrible from a cost standpoint as well as an employee morale perspective (furloughed workers, low tips, empty resort blues, no sales teams).  When members are going to vacation HGVC wants them to use their points at HGVC resorts so that HGVC resorts become full and viable again.  That is not the case right now and in the forseeable future.

When HGVC sees all of its resorts getting reasonably full again they will be urging members to use their points for HH Conversions and other points partners like they did before since resorts will be sufficiently full and viable again.  Furthermore, conversions allow HGVC to rent nights at the resort that are deposited for income right now there are so many vacancies and few travelers renting available nights is not a concern.  

Most people on TUG agree that using points for HH Conversions and other points partners, while a benefit, is a poor use of points and should only be done when one cannot possibly use the points for an HGVC resort.  Right now many members can't or won't use their points at HGVC resorts, therefore, HGVC is allowing points to be saved until next year without cost.  That is a benefit that normally members don't get.  However, perhaps in 2021 things will be better and everything will open up again.  They then want members to use their points at HGVC resorts not Hilton Hotels.


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## SmithOp (Sep 8, 2020)

@traveling apparently you are an Elite member that utilized this benefit, so I can understand your point of view. 

There are also a lot of owners that do not use it so its no big deal, happy they found a way to save costs that didn’t affect me. I have only positive thoughts about how the pandemic response is being handled.

If Hilton still owned HGV things might have been different, now its a spun off public traded company there are investors to satisfy. The street is bearish on HGV stock right now.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro


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## Tamaradarann (Sep 8, 2020)

SmithOp said:


> @traveling apparently you are an Elite member that utilized this benefit, so I can understand your point of view.
> 
> There are also a lot of owners that do not use it so its no big deal, happy they found a way to save costs that didn’t affect me. I have only positive thoughts about how the pandemic response is being handled.
> 
> ...



I don't necessarily agree that traveling is a "Elite Member".  I am an Elite Member and have 34,600 points, however, I don't have that point of view nor do I think that converting points to Hilton Honors is a good move, since the conversion rate is never benefiical to HGVC owners.  Members get many more nights using HGVC points at HGVC resorts than converting to Hilton Honors and using them for Hotels.  

If going to Hilton Hotels is a priority getting the Aspire American Express card and charging your HGVC maintenance and many of your Hilton Hotel costs(14 points/$), airline travel costs, restaurants, and car rentals(7 points/$) is a way to acquire a bank of Hilton Honors Points.  

If the locations of the HGVC resorts do not satisfy ones vacation needs perhaps owning HGVC was not the correct timeshare system choice.


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## brp (Sep 8, 2020)

SmithOp said:


> There are also a lot of owners that do not use it so its no big deal, happy they found a way to save costs that didn’t affect me. I have only positive thoughts about how the pandemic response is being handled.






Tamaradarann said:


> ...nor do I think that converting points to Hilton Honors is a good move, since the conversion rate is never benefiical to HGVC owners.  Members get many more nights using HGVC points at HGVC resorts than converting to Hilton Honors and using them for Hotels.



Pretty much. For those that don't consider this a good use of MF dollars, this is a non-issue. And, while there are exceptions, I think the majority opinion here is that this conversion is a bad idea under normal terms. That's why it appears that, on the whole, we don't care much about this...because we don't.

Cheers.


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## PigsDad (Sep 8, 2020)

traveling said:


> Still, even with no HGV extras at all, the contract clearly offers no exceptions to the requirement for the owners to pay without fail or be subject to foreclosure.  I believe HGV has just dealt themselves a fatal shot buy letting their most loyal owners (and all others considering buying into HGV) know that everything they were promised in the contract can be withdrawn on a moments notice without negotiation--and there is nothing the owners can do about it.



I think you will find that most owners on this forum realize that what you own and what is specified in your purchase contract is a deeded week at one of HGV's resorts.  That is, and always has been, clearly stated.  The "club" membership is something that is available, but has never been guaranteed.  I believe you will find that almost all timeshares follow this model.

Now with that said, this HGV to Honors conversion reduction is temporary, and given the strange times we find ourselves in, I am OK with that.  I've been an owner for 15 years, and although HGV has the right to change or completely eliminate "club" benefits at any time, IMO they have been a great company, and have generally focused on giving their customers value for their club membership.

So no, I don't agree that HGV has "dealt themselves a fatal shot".  I think most owners 1) know what they bought (a deed property, not a promise of benefits that could never change), and 2) realize this is a temporary change during these extraordinary times.

Kurt

P.S. A friendly suggestion: you might try to include some paragraph breaks in your posts -- it is extremely hard on the eyes to try to read a huge blob of text.


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## Pathways (Sep 8, 2020)

traveling said:


> Am I the only one that thinks HGV totally messed over their HGV owners by suddenly (in a very small Stan Soroka (HGV Executive VP and Chief Customer Officer) August 21 announcement) cutting their HH conversion rate in half for all HGV owners, without exception (even their highest tier Elite Premier members) and without detailed explanation or rationale?  Normally I would have expected some consideration for their company's most loyal (highest paying) customers, at the very least, or perhaps.   In this newsletter, he states the reason for cutting the conversation ratio is to pay for giving everyone free transfer of club points from 2020 to 2021 and because COVID-19 impact was hard.  Interesting that nowhere on the shareholder calls nor anywhere else in their corporate documentation do they mention this conversion strategy as a corporate cost saving measure or what it is saving them.  Then, as if that announcement was not enough of an insult, they add in their FAQ "Consideration was given to suspending the Hilton Honors Points conversion program entirely for the remainder of the year.  However we instead decided to implement a 50% conversion ratio to continue providing this benefit to our Club Members."  From that, I guess we are to walk away smiling because the great HGV wizards have only stolen half our points this year.  Well, I am not amused!  I have searched everything in my contract for the fine print that says HGV can eliminate all benefits (not just this one) they promised us at any time they want (forever if they choose) and that everything they promised us for the thousands of dollars we paid and continue to pay is merely a temporary "gift" that can be withdrawn forever if HGV management so chooses.  Still, even with no HGV extras at all, the contract clearly offers no exceptions to the requirement for the owners to pay without fail or be subject to foreclosure.  I believe HGV has just dealt themselves a fatal shot buy letting their most loyal owners (and all others considering buying into HGV) know that everything they were promised in the contract can be withdrawn on a moments notice without negotiation--and there is nothing the owners can do about it.  I just learned that whatever you think is there today and what you think it may cost or convert for may not be there tomorrow or next year--its that simple.  Personally, I'm hoping that HGV reconsiders the magnitude of this decision and the repercussions of what they have done.  I would be interested to know how much of Stan Soroka's nearly $2 million in annual compensation is impacted by these cost-cutting measures or his boss's nearly $7 million in compensation, Mark Wang.  Mr Wang noted on his shareholder's call, "we reduced salaries for all team members and management across all levels of the organization.", but we don't know if that included him or Mr Soroka.   I hope that all concerned HGV owners will write to Mr Soroka and Wr Wang (as I am) to express your outrage and concerns over their overnight manipulation of your benefits that were promised for the exorbitant prices you continue to pay each year.  I would ask very blatantly, just exactly what benefits that you are now paying for are guaranteed???  IS HGV management at liberty to take all of them away on a moment's notice??  Is that the message that they want us to take to our friends and family and any interested buyers in this forum--or the internet??



So to answer, I am sure you are not the only one, but appear to be quite the minority.


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## Talent312 (Sep 8, 2020)

traveling said:


> Am I the only one that thinks...


Sorry, but I don't know what you think becuz I won't read such a huge, one-paragraph post.
Please break-up your writing into two-three sentence paragraphs with white-space between.
,


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## PigsDad (Sep 8, 2020)

Talent312 said:


> Sorry, but I don't know what you think becuz I won't read such a huge, one-paragraph post.
> Please break-up your writing into two-three sentence paragraphs with white-space between.


Hey, at least they used punctuation and capitalized the first word of each sentence.    There are some that don't do either, and it is almost impossible to read. Makes me wonder about the education system sometimes. 

Kurt


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## Tamaradarann (Sep 8, 2020)

PigsDad said:


> I think you will find that most owners on this forum realize that what you own and what is specified in your purchase contract is a deeded week at one of HGV's resorts.  That is, and always has been, clearly stated.  The "club" membership is something that is available, but has never been guaranteed.  I believe you will find that almost all timeshares follow this model.
> 
> Now with that said, this HGV to Honors conversion reduction is temporary, and given the strange times we find ourselves in, I am OK with that.  I've been an owner for 15 years, and although HGV has the right to change or completely eliminate "club" benefits at any time, IMO they have been a great company, and have generally focused on giving their customers value for their club membership.
> 
> ...


 
I agree with you that the club benefits are not "guaranteed" only the occupation of the timeshare unit that is purchased during the season that is purchased.  However, the exchange benefits to other resorts in the HGVC system are very fair and favorable for members and it is what makes the timeshare purchase valuable and why we bought.  Without it I would never have bought into the system.  While the conversion of HGVC points to Hilton Honors points is a benefit that is offered, it is offered with a conversion rate which favors HGVC not the member.  Therefore, while it can be done, it certainly is not what makes the timeshare purchase valuable.


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## codyrainbow (Sep 27, 2020)

Sebastiantheibis said:


> BAIT AND SWITCH
> AS A W57th OWNER, 50% Redction in HH points is not what I agreed to when purchasing in NEW YORK with its higher price and maintenance fees.
> HGVC is using the pandemic as an a excuse to RIP OFF WEST 57th owners.
> Time for a class action against HGVC.


I agree entirely.  Actually we are getting 25% reduction and I am calling them tomorrow.  I can't believe this.


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## Pathways (Sep 27, 2020)

codyrainbow said:


> I agree entirely.  Actually we are getting 25% reduction and I am calling them tomorrow.  I can't believe this.



Might I suggest to help the recipient of your call that you have your contract in hand so you can site the exact wording where that stipulation is spelled out.


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## Talent312 (Sep 27, 2020)

Sebastiantheibis said:


> This is likely illegal as it is not in the terms.



I suggest you actually read the Rules:

"Club program use options, fees and rules, including but not limited to, the RCI Exchange Program, special exchanges, nightly point values, reservation windows, the Hilton Honors program, saving, RCI depositing, borrowing, converting, and ClubPartner Perks that may be offered from time to time, are subject to change, adjustment, suspension or discontinuation without notice." (emphasis added)

-- From "Club Reference 2020" (page 20)

IOW, it's likely quite legal.
,



.
,
.


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## Nomad420 (Oct 8, 2020)

Sebastiantheibis said:


> BAIT AND SWITCH
> AS A W57th OWNER, 50% Redction in HH points is not what I agreed to when purchasing in NEW YORK with its higher price and maintenance fees.
> HGVC is using the pandemic as an a excuse to RIP OFF WEST 57th owners.
> Time for a class action against HGVC.


Already spoken to owner at 57th and HCNY who are discussing the same thing.  Didn't read the fine print but I remember asking this exact question at purchase and was told "it can't happen" and that something to the fact it was in the contract/agreement.  NOT HAPPY!


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## Nomad420 (Oct 8, 2020)

Talent312 said:


> -- From "Club Reference 2020" (page 20)


LOL need I say more, of course buried in the multipage contract.  Have already spoken to attorney and am looking into what if any action can be taken.  The fact is, as others have stated, it was an implied benefit of ownership.  I suspect attorneys can make are argument for anything but it was a pretty low move in my opinion.


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## Sebastiantheibis (Oct 8, 2020)

Talent312 said:


> I suggest you actually read the Rules:
> 
> "Club program use options, fees and rules, including but not limited to, the RCI Exchange Program, special exchanges, nightly point values, reservation windows, the Hilton Honors program, saving, RCI depositing, borrowing, converting, and ClubPartner Perks that may be offered from time to time, are subject to change, adjustment, suspension or discontinuation without notice." (emphasis added)
> 
> ...


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## MPrince (Oct 8, 2020)

Nomad420 said:


> Already spoken to owner at 57th and HCNY who are discussing the same thing.  Didn't read the fine print but I remember asking this exact question at purchase and was told "it can't happen" and that something to the fact it was in the contract/agreement.  NOT HAPPY!



Were you not given the opportunity to read the contract documents before entering into the contract? 

I was, and read every word before I signed.


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## Nomad420 (Oct 8, 2020)

From what is stated above in theory they could completely eliminate the conversion to HH points.   Again, never told of this obviously.  I submitted my documents to my attorney yesterday to look at.  I purchase in 2015.  I am not the only person who he (my attorney) is looking into this for.  Seems like I am always learning something negative about HGVC and this property that I purchased.  Oh well live and learn.


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## CanuckTravlr (Oct 8, 2020)

Sebastiantheibis said:


> If the purchase were between 2015-9, does any one have access to rules in those years. Changing the rules may be fraudulent



Attached please find the 2016 rules brochure.  I have, for your convenience, highlighted the section dealing with the Hilton Honors conversion rate on page 7.

It clearly states the conversion rate can be changed without notice, just as everyone has been telling you, even if you don't want to hear it.  Quite frankly, your time might be better spent learning how to actually use your points.  It would be far less stressful, costly, and more beneficial, than tilting at windmills with lawsuits.

I currently have an offer from Hilton to purchase up to 160,000 Honors Points at $10 USD per thousand and they will match them 100%.  That is 320,000 Hilton Honors Points for $1,600 USD.  If you are primarily interested in Hilton Honors Points, that is a better deal and lower cost than converting either 12,800 Club Points at 25:1 (or even 6,400 Club Points at the regular Elite conversion rate of 50:1), IMO.

Most of us here are experienced owners.  We are trying to help you with advice on how best to use what you have purchased.  The contract is what it is.  The first step is to park your outrage.  It is totally unproductive.  The second step is to spend some time reading and learning.


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## Tamaradarann (Oct 8, 2020)

Nomad420 said:


> From what is stated above in theory they could completely eliminate the conversion to HH points.   Again, never told of this obviously.  I submitted my documents to my attorney yesterday to look at.  I purchase in 2015.  I am not the only person who he (my attorney) is looking into this for.  Seems like I am always learning something negative about HGVC and this property that I purchased.  Oh well live and learn.



I am sure you know that HGVC was part of Hilton Worldwide.  A few years ago it was broken away to be a separate corporation.  Therefore, since Hilton Hotels is a separate corporation from HGVC the agreement/contract to allow conversions between the 2 corporations could be ended or changed by either side.  In that same vain the timeshare you bought is a contract that gives you the right to occupy that unit for one week each year during the season that you purchased.  The exchange and deposit privileges that we all enjoy are benefits to joining the HGV CLUB.  The rules of the CLUB could be changed at any time.  

Finally, let me ask why do you want to deposit your valuable week into Hilton Honors?  I understand not vacationing right now, we have cancelled all our plans for the rest of 2020.  However, 2021 is a new year and hopefully new vacation opportunities to use the timeshares we own.


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## Nomad420 (Oct 8, 2020)

Tamaradarann said:


> I am sure you know that HGVC was part of Hilton Worldwide.  A few years ago it was broken away to be a separate corporation.  Therefore, since Hilton Hotels is a separate corporation from HGVC the agreement/contract to allow conversions between the 2 corporations could be ended or changed by either side.  In that same vain the timeshare you bought is a contract that gives you the right to occupy that unit for one week each year during the season that you purchased.  The exchange and deposit privileges that we all enjoy are benefits to joining the HGV CLUB.  The rules of the CLUB could be changed at any time.
> 
> Finally, let me ask why do you want to deposit your valuable week into Hilton Honors?  I understand not vacationing right now, we have cancelled all our plans for the rest of 2020.  However, 2021 is a new year and hopefully new vacation opportunities to use the timeshares we own.


To the last part of your question I will NOT be trading my points into HH obviously given the "temporary" deal.   
I am aware of the split of HH and HGVC, that occurred after my purchase.   I tried to contact my initial sales rep who stated that the conversion was "fixed" and never mentioned that this could be eliminated all together (stated numerous times in above posts) but... surprise! He no longer works with HGVC.  For me it is a principle issue.  Did I read page 20 of the literally three ring folder of papers submitted to me, the answer is no.  Did I ask, yes,  and was not told it could be reduced and certainly not eliminated all together.  Obviously this reduce the value of my purchase.  FWIW I am not the only one who contacted my attorney about this specific issue.


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## Tamaradarann (Oct 8, 2020)

Nomad420 said:


> To the last part of your question I will NOT be trading my points into HH obviously given the "temporary" deal.
> I am aware of the split of HH and HGVC, that occurred after my purchase.   I tried to contact my initial sales rep who stated that the conversion was "fixed" and never mentioned that this could be eliminated all together (stated numerous times in above posts) but... surprise! He no longer works with HGVC.  For me it is a principle issue.  Did I read page 20 of the literally three ring folder of papers submitted to me, the answer is no.  Did I ask, yes,  and was not told it could be reduced and certainly not eliminated all together.  Obviously this reduce the value of my purchase.  FWIW I am not the only one who contacted my attorney about this specific issue.



Right now with many the Hilton Hawaiian Village Resorts in Honolulu closed it has reduced the value of those that purchased timeshares in those resorts.  They can't go to the resort they bourght.  If a company that you buy stock in goes out of business the value of your purchase goes down.  Many businesses have lost value and money and are going out of business due to the Coronavirus.  While unlikely, there is always the possibility that HGVC could go out of business and all you will have is the unit you bought in your purchase with no exchange system and perhaps no management company to maintain your unit and building.  

This is a major World Crisis and many people have been hurt physically, finacially and emotionally by this virus.  While I do miss my vacationing in Honolulu this coming year I am happy my family and I are well, we have been only hurt a small amount financially, and we have been able to stay emotionally sound.  I am hopeful that things get back to normal in the next year or so.


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## MPrince (Oct 9, 2020)

Nomad420 said:


> To the last part of your question I will NOT be trading my points into HH obviously given the "temporary" deal.
> I am aware of the split of HH and HGVC, that occurred after my purchase.   I tried to contact my initial sales rep who stated that the conversion was "fixed" and never mentioned that this could be eliminated all together (stated numerous times in above posts) but... surprise! He no longer works with HGVC.  For me it is a principle issue.  Did I read page 20 of the literally three ring folder of papers submitted to me, the answer is no.  Did I ask, yes,  and was not told it could be reduced and certainly not eliminated all together.  Obviously this reduce the value of my purchase.  FWIW I am not the only one who contacted my attorney about this specific issue.



It doesn't matter what a salesman told you. His words are not part of the contract. What matters is the content of the contract you signed. You acknowledge you didn't read the contract in its entirety. You had the right to do so before signing, and chose not to do so. That's not HGVC/Hilton's fault, that's on you. Take responsibility for it, learn from it, and in the future read contracts and question anything you don't understand before signing.


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## Nomad420 (Oct 9, 2020)

MPrince said:


> It doesn't matter what a salesman told you. His words are not part of the contract. What matters is the content of the contract you signed. You acknowledge you didn't read the contract in its entirety. You had the right to do so before signing, and chose not to do so. That's not HGVC/Hilton's fault, that's on you. Take responsibility for it, learn from it, and in the future read contracts and question anything you don't understand before signing.


Thanks,  but I'll let my attorney deal with the legal issue at hand here.  FWIW the the sales rep statements were witnessed.   However, in the end you may very well be correct or, more likely,  it would cost me more to pursue what I feel is fraudulent representation of contract on my own.  *IF* a class action law suite does arise out of this I will participate in it. 

This is a major World Crisis and many people have been hurt physically, finacially and emotionally by this virus.  While I do miss my vacationing in Honolulu this coming year I am happy my family and I are well, we have been only hurt a small amount financially, and we have been able to stay emotionally sound.  I am hopeful that things get back to normal in the next year or so.
[/QUOTE]
I own at HCNY and because it is in the Hilton Hotel the property has been shut down for months as well.  I believe it is opening back up sometime in Dec but I don't plan on returning any time soon. This property was significantly impacted by its location in the hotel which HGVC has said prolonged its closure.  Obviously at this point I have no plans to sell my property at this location and eventually hope to return.  
Again, to me this is more of a principle issue.  I have been an honest business man all of my life.  My word is paramount, I don't say what I don't mean.  Perhaps that's just me and now the world has changed.....sadly.


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## GT75 (Oct 9, 2020)

Nomad420 said:


> I have been an honest business man all of my life. My word is paramount, I don't say what I don't mean. Perhaps that's just me and now the world has changed.....sadly.


I am sorry to inform you that TS salespeople don't live by that code.   If they did, there would be no (or almost no) sales.


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## Tamaradarann (Oct 9, 2020)

Nomad420 said:


> Thanks,  but I'll let my attorney deal with the legal issue at hand here.  FWIW the the sales rep statements were witnessed.   However, in the end you may very well be correct or, more likely,  it would cost me more to pursue what I feel is fraudulent representation of contract on my own.  *IF* a class action law suite does arise out of this I will participate in it.
> 
> This is a major World Crisis and many people have been hurt physically, finacially and emotionally by this virus.  While I do miss my vacationing in Honolulu this coming year I am happy my family and I are well, we have been only hurt a small amount financially, and we have been able to stay emotionally sound.  I am hopeful that things get back to normal in the next year or so.


I own at HCNY and because it is in the Hilton Hotel the property has been shut down for months as well.  I believe it is opening back up sometime in Dec but I don't plan on returning any time soon. This property was significantly impacted by its location in the hotel which HGVC has said prolonged its closure.  Obviously at this point I have no plans to sell my property at this location and eventually hope to return.
Again, to me this is more of a principle issue.  I have been an honest business man all of my life.  My word is paramount, I don't say what I don't mean.  Perhaps that's just me and now the world has changed.....sadly.
[/QUOTE]

I can understand your feelings about honest business and your word being paramount.  I have the same life ethic.  Many people in business don't have that ethic and use the laws and high priced Attorneys and Accountants to get out of paying people that work for them and taxes that they should be paying.  However, even if what you say the timeshare salesman said was on videotape so it could be presented in court as evidence that you heard him say ""it can't happen" and that something to the fact it was in the contract/agreement", the the relationship between Hilton Hotels and HGVC is different than it was when you bought.  That could be one of the reasons that the reduction in deposits of HGVC points into HH points has changed.  If it is costing you nothing to pursue it go for it, however, if the attorney is charging you a retainer or charging you by the hour you may be spending money that could be used to pay for your timeshare maintenance and perhaps you should be planning your next vacation.


----------



## SmithOp (Oct 9, 2020)

Wish I had a nickel for every time someone posted on TUG “but the salesman said XYZ”.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro


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## jabberwocky (Oct 9, 2020)

SmithOp said:


> Wish I had a nickel for every time someone posted on TUG “but the salesman said XYZ”.


And a nickel for everyone that said they are starting a class action lawsuit.


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## Talent312 (Oct 10, 2020)

For those who rely on salesmen statements: Parol evidence rule.
Look it up.

Rescission terms give peep time to learn what they've signed,
w/o the sales weasels running interference.

.


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## GrampaTim (Oct 10, 2020)

On the rare occaision I've taken a "tour" with a salesperson, except for our original purchase, the reps started with false information very early in the presentation.  ( With our initial purchase, and later upgrade, the reps and company were "over the top honest" ).  Of course, if the beginning of the pitch is flawed, then it's clear nothing that will be said thereafter will be trustable.  Before you sign anything, you absolutely have to study, and understand, the actual written agreement.  Don't be surprised if it's a mismatch with what you were "told" you were signing.  Timeshares can be quite enjoyable, but know exactly what you are getting upfront, and then actually use it.


----------



## NOLA47 (Oct 11, 2020)

WOW!!  I had not seen this reduction notice.  Thanks so much for the heads up.  I have always felt that it was not a good deal too.  However, with carrying Over this year’s point to 2021, I was planning to do it with my 2021 points.  I have two conferences at hilton hotels with pricey rates that I planned to use Hilton honors points to reserve.  By using Hilton honors points I could reserve five days and pay for four.  Doing this for my two conferences would save me a lot of out of pocket funds and I would be able to stay in the host hotel - thus justifying converting this year.   I doubt that I will do it with this big reduction in points.  I’m so glad I saw your post.  Thanks!!


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## MPrince (Oct 11, 2020)

According to the Cornell Law School Legal Information Institute a majority of states no longer use the parol evidence rule. However, many contracts now include a parol evidence clause in which both parties acknowledge that the written document along with other documents incorporated by reference constitutes the entire agreement between the parties and that no verbal or other statements can be relied upon.

When I entered into my contract with HGVC, among the documents included in the agreement was a document called "Statement of Understanding" which included 16 sections, each of which had to be initialed. One of the sections covered Hilton Honors conversion, and specifically states that Honors benefits and point conversions are subject to change. Another section states that the Purchase Agreement along with governing documents contain all the terms and conditions of ownership and that you should not rely upon any oral representations as the basis for purchase.


----------



## MPrince (Oct 11, 2020)

Nomad420 said:


> Thanks,  but I'll let my attorney deal with the legal issue at hand here.  FWIW the the sales rep statements were witnessed.   However, in the end you may very well be correct or, more likely,  it would cost me more to pursue what I feel is fraudulent representation of contract on my own.  *IF* a class action law suite does arise out of this I will participate in it.



Have you gotten around to reading the contract you signed yet? If not, look for a three page document called "Statement of Understanding". If yours is the same as mine, you'll see all this talk of lawsuits is a waste of time and money. Your signature will be proof that no fraudulent representation occurred.


----------



## semicycler (Oct 12, 2020)

Good news!  Just got an email from HGVC.  The conversion ratio reduction will be lifted on Jan 1, 2021.

_"In my previous email, I shared with you our decision to temporarily reduce the conversion ratio for Hilton Honors Points. *Starting on January 1, 2021, the Hilton Honors Points conversion ratio reduction will be lifted*. We implemented this temporary reduction because the conversion of ClubPoints to Hilton Honors Points comes at a cost to HGV and, most important, we lose the opportunity to welcome you to an HGV resort. Now that most of our properties are accepting guests, our Team Members depend on you coming back to see us more than ever. Using your Points to book a stay at an HGV property will always be the most effective use of your Points. I thank you for your understanding with this temporary change and hope that you continue to turn to our resorts as your No. 1 vacation destination."_


----------



## Sandy VDH (Oct 12, 2020)

_[MERGED]_

October 12, 2020

Dear Club Members,

With each decision we've made this year, we've kept you at the heart of everything we do. As travel restrictions took hold, we waived our reservation cancellation policy through the end of the year and refunded transaction fees for reservations that were impacted by property closures. We also extended expiring Bonus Points and previously Saved Points. And on December 31, 2020, we will start the process of saving all unused 2020 ClubPoints into 2021 at no cost to you.

In my previous email, I shared with you our decision to temporarily reduce the conversion ratio for Hilton Honors Points. *Starting on January 1, 2021, the Hilton Honors Points conversion ratio reduction will be lifted*. We implemented this temporary reduction because the conversion of ClubPoints to Hilton Honors Points comes at a cost to HGV and, most important, we lose the opportunity to welcome you to an HGV resort. Now that most of our properties are accepting guests, our Team Members depend on you coming back to see us more than ever. Using your Points to book a stay at an HGV property will always be the most effective use of your Points. I thank you for your understanding with this temporary change and hope that you continue to turn to our resorts as your No. 1 vacation destination.

In the few cities where our properties remain closed, we've gone over in great detail all of our re-opening options. Some of these extended closures are due to restrictions impacting ease of travel or a resort's location within a larger hotel campus. Where travel restrictions have eased, we've re-opened most properties. And where we are part of a larger hotel campus, we've remained in constant communication with our partners so that our Team Members are ready for your arrival the moment a re-opening date is announced.

I remain optimistic about what lies ahead. Positive news continues to arrive out of our U.S. markets, with many now easing restrictions and entering new phases of re-opening, such as certain locations in Hawaii and the entire state of Florida. Information on many of these locations can be found by visiting our Travel Updates page. Looking forward, we have several exciting new resorts scheduled to open in 2021, including Liberty Place Charleston by Hilton Club and La Pacifica Los Cabos by Hilton Club, with even more openings in 2022 and beyond, such as The Beach Resort Sesoko by Hilton Club and Maui Bay Villas by Hilton Club.

The return of fall traditions symbolizes entry into a new season, both literally and figuratively, as we each adapt to the "new normal." Please join me in looking forward to all that is new.

Best wishes,





Stan Soroka
Chief Customer Officer
Hilton Grand Vacations


----------



## traveling (Oct 12, 2020)

-- In my first post I was criticized for writing too much.  This will be shorter.
-- The stated rationale for changing the HH conversion was less than truthful and/or incomplete.  It was to force people to stay in their HGV units-- not because saving points "increased challenges" or to "mitigate some of the impact".  If so, more explanation should have been given. The FAQ explaining basically we were lucky to get any conversion at all was a flippant, non-caring answer. As owners, we deserve more.
-- Yes, I read the whole Contract and the fine print.  
-- To those who say so what, I say speak up when the erosion starts, to help those that need your support, like I did, or wait till its to late and all your benefits are gone.  Read the rest of the "fine print".  HGV can take all the benefits away whenever they choose, and they do not have to say why,  and raise your maintenance fees as high as they like.  Does anything in the contract matter to you?  HGV has numerous safeguards to protect what matters to them--getting your money.  What are our safeguards?  Our collective voices, resales, recommendations here, social media, etc.
-- When will you decide to speak up??
-- Yes, I just read they have given the correct conversion rate back for  2021 (for now)--but we know HGV can remove/change anything with an email -- with no-notice and with flimsy rationale.


----------



## KathyA (Oct 12, 2020)

semicycler said:


> Good news!  Just got an email from HGVC.  The conversion ratio reduction will be lifted on Jan 1, 2021.
> 
> _"In my previous email, I shared with you our decision to temporarily reduce the conversion ratio for Hilton Honors Points. *Starting on January 1, 2021, the Hilton Honors Points conversion ratio reduction will be lifted*. We implemented this temporary reduction because the conversion of ClubPoints to Hilton Honors Points comes at a cost to HGV and, most important, we lose the opportunity to welcome you to an HGV resort. Now that most of our properties are accepting guests, our Team Members depend on you coming back to see us more than ever. Using your Points to book a stay at an HGV property will always be the most effective use of your Points. I thank you for your understanding with this temporary change and hope that you continue to turn to our resorts as your No. 1 vacation destination."_



This does no good for 2020 or 2021 points, since next year's points (2021) must be converted to HHonors points by December 31, 2020.  This has always been their policy.  So when the policy reverts on January 1, you will be able to convert any or all of your 2022 points--at a fee-- into Hilton Honors for their "full value".


----------



## traveling (Oct 12, 2020)

KathyA said:


> This does no good for 2020 or 2021 points, since next year's points (2021) must be converted to HHonors points by December 31, 2020.  This has always been their policy.  So when the policy reverts on January 1, you will be able to convert any or all of your 2022 points--at a fee-- into Hilton Honors for their "full value".


Thus the reason for my strongly worded protest to HGV senior management.  They have opened the door to removing our contractually obligated benefits and provided flimsy rationale for doing so.  They are testing us to see if any owners will speak up.  I speak up when it first begins.  Others will choose to wait until it is too late to make a difference.  In this case, announce the conversion change Aug 21 and quickly announce they are back less than 7 weeks later--but they are not, as Kathy points out.  We lost our right to fully convert for the years 2020 and 2021.  They found out what they already knew.  They can slowly take away our benefits, partially restore them, take away even more the next time,  and the masses will stay silent.


----------



## DazedandConfused (Oct 12, 2020)

Dear Club Members,

With each decision we've made this year, we've kept you at the heart of everything we do. As travel restrictions took hold, we waived our reservation cancellation policy through the end of the year and refunded transaction fees for reservations that were impacted by property closures. We also extended expiring Bonus Points and previously Saved Points. And on December 31, 2020, we will start the process of saving all unused 2020 ClubPoints into 2021 at no cost to you.

In my previous email, I shared with you our decision to temporarily reduce the conversion ratio for Hilton Honors Points. *Starting on January 1, 2021, the Hilton Honors Points conversion ratio reduction will be lifted*. We implemented this temporary reduction because the conversion of ClubPoints to Hilton Honors Points comes at a cost to HGV and, most important, we lose the opportunity to welcome you to an HGV resort. Now that most of our properties are accepting guests, our Team Members depend on you coming back to see us more than ever. Using your Points to book a stay at an HGV property will always be the most effective use of your Points. I thank you for your understanding with this temporary change and hope that you continue to turn to our resorts as your No. 1 vacation destination.

In the few cities where our properties remain closed, weâ€™ve gone over in great detail all of our re-opening options. Some of these extended closures are due to restrictions impacting ease of travel or a resort's location within a larger hotel campus. Where travel restrictions have eased, we've re-opened most properties. And where we are part of a larger hotel campus, we've remained in constant communication with our partners so that our Team Members are ready for your arrival the moment a re-opening date is announced.

I remain optimistic about what lies ahead. Positive news continues to arrive out of our U.S. markets, with many now easing restrictions and entering new phases of re-opening, such as certain locations in Hawaii and the entire state of Florida. Information on many of these locations can be found by visiting our Travel Updates page. Looking forward, we have several exciting new resorts scheduled to open in 2021, including Liberty Place Charleston by Hilton Club and La Pacifica Los Cabos by Hilton Club, with even more openings in 2022 and beyond, such as The Beach Resort Sesoko by Hilton Club and Maui Bay Villas by Hilton Club.

The return of fall traditions symbolizes entry into a new season, both literally and figuratively, as we each adapt to the "new normal." Please join me in looking forward to all that is new.

Best wishes,





Stan Soroka
Chief Customer Officer
Hilton Grand Vacations


----------



## MPrince (Oct 12, 2020)

My contract specifically states that Honors benefits and point conversions are subject to change. Nothing in the contract says any rationale, flimsy or otherwise, need be provided.

Your contract probably says the same.

Speak up all you want, but you likely have no legal leg to stand on. You lost no right to "fully convert" your points because under the contract the conversion rate is subject to change.

Make sure you read and understand a contract before signing it. Doing so will save you a lot of grief.

No one forced you to buy an HGVC timeshare, and if you are unhappy then sell it. Life is too short to go around being unhappy all the time.


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## CalGalTraveler (Oct 12, 2020)

traveling said:


> -- In my first post I was criticized for writing too much.  This will be shorter.
> -- The stated rationale for changing the HH conversion was less than truthful and/or incomplete.  It was to force people to stay in their HGV units-- not because saving points "increased challenges" or to "mitigate some of the impact".  If so, more explanation should have been given. The FAQ explaining basically we were lucky to get any conversion at all was a flippant, non-caring answer. As owners, we deserve more.
> -- Yes, I read the whole Contract and the fine print.
> -- To those who say so what, I say speak up when the erosion starts, to help those that need your support, like I did, or wait till its to late and all your benefits are gone.  Read the rest of the "fine print".  HGV can take all the benefits away whenever they choose, and they do not have to say why,  and raise your maintenance fees as high as they like.  Does anything in the contract matter to you?  HGV has numerous safeguards to protect what matters to them--getting your money.  What are our safeguards?  Our collective voices, resales, recommendations here, social media, etc.
> ...



So you are just figuring out now that contracts with large companies are designed by lawyers to slant in their favor? If you read the contracts with your medical provider, Internet provider or bank, there is no difference.

It's temporary. They are being restated. HGVC is good to their owners. Stop worrying.


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## ljmiii (Oct 12, 2020)

KathyA said:


> This does no good for 2020 or 2021 points....


I think that is rather the point. Hopefully, by 2022 the excess HGVC points caused by COVID-19 closures will have been flushed out of the system.


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## PigsDad (Oct 12, 2020)

MPrince said:


> No one forced you to buy an HGVC timeshare, and if you are unhappy then sell it. Life is too short to go around being unhappy all the time.


Wise words.

Kurt


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## traveling (Oct 12, 2020)

MPrince said:


> My contract specifically states that Honors benefits and point conversions are subject to change. Nothing in the contract says any rationale, flimsy or otherwise, need be provided.
> 
> Your contract probably says the same.
> 
> ...


-- Once again, Yes, I read the contract and fine print and would not sign anything without fully understanding it. I do not plan to sue and know I have no legal leg to stand on. 
-- There will be times when speaking up about things you feel are incorrect is the right thing to do, even if it may seem like tilting at windmills.  Just because companies or individuals can, doesn't mean they should.  It goes to integrity and honesty, which does not need any more discussion here. 
-- I agree that we only have so many moments in our mortal life and that is why I'm done with this topic.  I'm not unhappy about all this.  I made my point--here and to management.


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## MPrince (Oct 12, 2020)

I don't understand the logic of complaining that a party to a contract exercised a right under that contract.


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## GT75 (Oct 12, 2020)

I think that the problem for owners is remembering the “great” selling points from the developers TS salesperson.   The 50/1 ratio at bHC is one of those selling points.   Another point use to also be the Open Season (OS) rates.  These are just two examples.  Yes, it is in the paperwork that the club rules can be changed.


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## traveling (Oct 12, 2020)

MPrince said:


> I don't understand the logic of complaining that a party to a contract exercised a right under that contract.


-- The logic is that today I received a call from Stan Soroka, HGV Executive VP and Chief Customer Officer, in response to my email to HGV.  He was the author of the August 21 message that informed us of the conversion rate change.
-- He was very personable.  We had a great conversation.  He explained in much greater detail the corporate thinking behind all the changes affecting owners.  I understood the difficult decisions and careful planning that went into every decision and now realize this conversion change, for one year, was right--when looking at the big picture and when looking at everything that was done, in perspective.  There was nothing sinister--just a corporation doing what they could to respond to a global pandemic while also protecting and responding to owner concerns.
-- All I ever sought was a little more understanding as to the thinking behind this decision to change the conversion ratio.  My mistake was going to this group instead of to the corporation that made the decision.  Always better to get information first hand.  
-- The bottom line is that HGV felt saving points for free and then doubling up those points with next year's points would make more owners happy, although costing HGV more money, than cutting the conversion rate.  Owners could then go to better places with double the points available.   From the majority of the discussions in the group, it sounds like they made the right decision. 
-- I'm happy because Stan called in response to my email with logical explanations.  Everyone else is happy because they got to save points for free.


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## jabberwocky (Oct 12, 2020)

I’m impressed that they called you.  

Thanks for having the guts to come back and provide this update. I think this goes to show how well HGVC has been responding to a very difficult situation. On the whole they have done the right things for the vast majority of owners and aren’t trying to screw anyone over (salespeople excepted).

The worst possible outcome would be for them to be put in a weak cash position and then being bought out by a less reputable outfit (Diamond anyone?).  I’d much rather be part of a strong system than a weak one.


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## traveling (Oct 13, 2020)

jabberwocky said:


> I’m impressed that they called you.
> 
> Thanks for having the guts to come back and provide this update. I think this goes to show how well HGVC has been responding to a very difficult situation. On the whole they have done the right things for the vast majority of owners and aren’t trying to screw anyone over (salespeople excepted).
> 
> The worst possible outcome would be for them to be put in a weak cash position and then being bought out by a less reputable outfit (Diamond anyone?).  I’d much rather be part of a strong system than a weak one.


-- I agree.  Before contacting HGV Management, I thoroughly reviewed HGV financials at https://investors.hgv.com.  this included stock prices over the last year, quarterly calls with shareholders and and specifically what HGV has done or plans to do in response to the pandemic, as it applies to owners.  
-- Mr Soroka answered all my questions and concerns and provided a look into future actions.  His openness and willingness to discuss these issues of concern convinced me that we are in good hands with HGV management and that HGV is moving through the pandemic well, as their rising stock prices show.  Investors are cautiously optimistic.  I consider this a very small sacrifice on our part to ensure the long term viability of HGV. 
-- They are planning for more expansion and will be announcing those soon. Their third quarter call transcript with investors should be available on their investor website by the end of this month.


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## DazedandConfused (Oct 13, 2020)

traveling said:


> -- All I ever sought was a little more understanding as to the thinking behind this decision to change the conversion ratio.  My mistake was going to this group instead of to the corporation that made the decision.  Always better to get information first hand.
> -- The bottom line is that HGV felt saving points for free and then doubling up those points with next year's points would make more owners happy, although costing HGV more money, than cutting the conversion rate.  Owners could then go to better places with double the points available.   From the majority of the discussions in the group, it sounds like they made the right decision.
> -- I'm happy because Stan called in response to my email with logical explanations.  Everyone else is happy because they got to save points for free.



The logic is that Stan nor HGVC has the time or bandwidth to call every member, so forums like TUGbbs are valuable resources for members to share information.

DVC and HGVC handled the covid pandemic about as well as anyone could expect, while a few other timeshares really let their members down.


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## traveling (Oct 13, 2020)

DazedandConfused said:


> The logic is that Stan nor HGVC has the time or bandwidth to call every member, so forums like TUGbbs are valuable resources for members to share information.
> 
> DVC and HGVC handled the covid pandemic about as well as anyone could expect, while a few other timeshares really let their members down.


Of course.  The forums have great value.  I meant that rather than just complain to the group, I should have tried to get answers from HGV first and then provided the answers to the group.  
i would not have wasted so much of the group’s time.
Lesson learned


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## DazedandConfused (Oct 13, 2020)

traveling said:


> Am I the only one that thinks HGV totally messed over their HGV owners by suddenly (in a very small Stan Soroka (HGV Executive VP and Chief Customer Officer) August 21 announcement) cutting their HH conversion rate in half for all HGV owners, without exception (even their highest tier Elite Premier members) and without detailed explanation or rationale?  Normally I would have expected some consideration for their company's most loyal (highest paying) customers, at the very least, or perhaps.



I re-read your first post and, although I am a Hilton Diamond member, I bought HGVC resale and am not an Elite member. To be totally honest, I would not have had any problem at all if HGVC reserved the full conversion for only Elite, Elite + and elite Premier members as those members are truly their best customers and should have additional perks above any resale member.



traveling said:


> Of course.  The forums have great value.  I meant that rather than just complain to the group, I should have tried to get answers from HGV first and then provided the answers to the group.
> i would not have wasted so much of the group’s time.
> Lesson learned



Your posts are NOT a waste of time and certainly does add a different perspective. Not everyone on TUG agrees with each other, but most people here respect different opinions and valuations. But I do find that most TUG members are value driven and that is fine with me. I am willing to pay more for more benefits or services I desire (Michelin star restaurants), but not so much on other things (buying from developer for Elite status).

I think most members here originally bought a timeshare from a developer and probably wish they bought resale first. But in the end, most owners are here to learn from others how to maximize their enjoyment and use of their timeshare.


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## dayooper (Oct 13, 2020)

traveling said:


> Of course.  The forums have great value.  I meant that rather than just complain to the group, I should have tried to get answers from HGV first and then provided the answers to the group.
> i would not have wasted so much of the group’s time.
> Lesson learned



I don't think you wasted anybody's time. It was discussion and discussion is a great thing. We all come to the table with our own experiences and personalities. There are some forum members that though HGVC was too flexible and that will effect availability in the next few years. Everybody will keep pushing their points to the following years. These are all valid points to discuss and you had every right to be not happy with the reduction of a benefit you used. I hope you stick around and become part of the discussion around here.

I felt very comfortable with what HGVC did because of the quick action in the reduction/elimination of fees. It was done in good faith to their customers. I know that keeping their best customers happy is in their best interest of their bottom line, but it still felt like they are caring for their actual customers and not just the stockholders. I understood that the HHonors system is based off of two entities and HGVC has no control over what Hilton Hotels does.


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## GT75 (Oct 15, 2020)

traveling said:


> -- The logic is that today I received a call from Stan Soroka, HGV Executive VP and Chief Customer Officer, in response to my email to HGV.  He was the author of the August 21 message that informed us of the conversion rate change.
> -- He was very personable.  We had a great conversation.  He explained in much greater detail the corporate thinking behind all the changes affecting owners.  I understood the difficult decisions and careful planning that went into every decision and now realize this conversion change, for one year, was right--when looking at the big picture and when looking at everything that was done, in perspective.  There was nothing sinister--just a corporation doing what they could to respond to a global pandemic while also protecting and responding to owner concerns.
> -- All I ever sought was a little more understanding as to the thinking behind this decision to change the conversion ratio.  My mistake was going to this group instead of to the corporation that made the decision.  Always better to get information first hand.
> -- The bottom line is that HGV felt saving points for free and then doubling up those points with next year's points would make more owners happy, although costing HGV more money, than cutting the conversion rate.  Owners could then go to better places with double the points available.   From the majority of the discussions in the group, it sounds like they made the right decision.
> -- I'm happy because Stan called in response to my email with logical explanations.  Everyone else is happy because they got to save points for free.



I wish that we had found out if HGV is still “for sale”.   It appears from the responses which you were provided (and actions taken during investor calls) that it isn’t.   Now, to me that could have a much more significant impact on our ownership.


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## traveling (Oct 15, 2020)

GT75 said:


> I wish that we had found out if HGV is still “for sale”.   It appears from the responses which you were provided (and actions taken during investor calls) that it isn’t.   Now, to me that could have a much more significant impact on our ownershi


Agree.  I did not discuss that specifically with him.  The HGV stock was, of course much higher last year (well above $30 when Apollo and others made their buy-out bids) and down at $10 in March back above $20 now.  HGV is climbing back up with a good plan and investors are acknowledging that.  Last January, Apollo was the last bidder left, after HGV was taking a lot of time to consider.  Then, the stock started going down.  I think it will be a while before we see Apollo come back again.  They have their own issues now and HGV is doing better with good plans ahead.


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## EyecareHI (Dec 27, 2020)

Sebastiantheibis said:


> BAIT AND SWITCH
> AS A W57th OWNER, 50% Redction in HH points is not what I agreed to when purchasing in NEW YORK with its higher price and maintenance fees.
> HGVC is using the pandemic as an a excuse to RIP OFF WEST 57th owners.
> Time for a class action against HGVC.




Agree. A  50% reduction in Club Point conversion ratio is brutal. I suspect many that buy higher-end HGVC time-shares tend to use HH points rather than staying at the same location; I usually use mine for international travel rather than staying at the same place year after year. 

The bottom line is, this reduction is within the terms that we agreed to when we bought HGVC timeshare(s). There is no recourse but to either bend over or sell, and the latter isn't easy with NYC HGVC timeshares.  It also speaks to the possibility of future devaluations of what is really a bad 'financial investment' to start with.


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## NOLA47 (Dec 27, 2020)

traveling said:


> -- The logic is that today I received a call from Stan Soroka, HGV Executive VP and Chief Customer Officer, in response to my email to HGV.  He was the author of the August 21 message that informed us of the conversion rate change.
> -- He was very personable.  We had a great conversation.  He explained in much greater detail the corporate thinking behind all the changes affecting owners.  I understood the difficult decisions and careful planning that went into every decision and now realize this conversion change, for one year, was right--when looking at the big picture and when looking at everything that was done, in perspective.  There was nothing sinister--just a corporation doing what they could to respond to a global pandemic while also protecting and responding to owner concerns.
> -- All I ever sought was a little more understanding as to the thinking behind this decision to change the conversion ratio.  My mistake was going to this group instead of to the corporation that made the decision.  Always better to get information first hand.
> -- The bottom line is that HGV felt saving points for free and then doubling up those points with next year's points would make more owners happy, although costing HGV more money, than cutting the conversion rate.  Owners could then go to better places with double the points available.   From the majority of the discussions in the group, it sounds like they made the right decision.
> -- I'm happy because Stan called in response to my email with logical explanations.  Everyone else is happy because they got to save points for free.


Thank you for revisiting your initial post and sharing your conversation with the HGV executive.  I appreciate your admitting that after the discussion you had a better understanding and shared it with us.  Because I had points to roll over from this year, my plan was to convert my 2021 points.  While I was disappointed initially I thought things could have been worse.  The pandemic is affecting everyone and everything in some way.  I really appreciated the explanation.


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## Sebastiantheibis (Dec 27, 2020)

NOLA47 said:


> Thank you for revisiting your initial post and sharing your conversation with the HGV executive.  I appreciate your admitting that after the discussion you had a better understanding and shared it with us.  Because I had points to roll over from this year, my plan was to convert my 2021 points.  While I was disappointed initially I thought things could have been worse.  The pandemic is affecting everyone and everything in some way.  I really appreciated the explanation.


Thank you 
I am so deep into W57th it is ugly especially In these pandemic times


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## SmithOp (Dec 27, 2020)

EyecareHI said:


> I suspect many that buy higher-end HGVC time-shares tend to use HH points rather than staying at the same location; I usually use mine for international travel rather than staying at the same place year after year.
> .



Don’t agree with this at all, I suspect you are basing it on your own usage but that does not translate to “many”.

We go to Hawaii every year for the past 20 years owning HGV, except for 2020. Perfectly fine going to the same locations with my points.

If I want to stay in a hotel I pay cash, I bought a timeshare because we like vacationing condo style.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro


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## brp (Dec 27, 2020)

SmithOp said:


> Don’t agree with this at all, I suspect you are basing it on your own usage but that does not translate to “many”.



I have a feeling that it could be quite a number of people who do this. Those who don't know how to properly use HGVC and bHC points and what they're for. I fear that there are a lot. We are few.

Cheers.


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## dayooper (Dec 27, 2020)

brp said:


> I have a feeling that it could be quite a number of people who do this. Those who don't know how to properly use HGVC and bHC points and what they're for. I fear that there are a lot. We are few.
> 
> Cheers.



I agree with this. I am a member of a couple of FB groups and many there don’t know how to most effectively use their membership and then complain when they don’t get what they want. I try to give suggestions, but many just want to be negative or say it’s too hard to plan. I always try and give a shout out to this forum and many newbies say they will take a look.


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## NOLA47 (Dec 27, 2020)

I totally agree that I would prefer the space of a timeshare vacation rental over a hotel.  However, I planned to convert them to reward points and have them on hand for those times when a timeshare is not available. I only use the points for high end/pricier hotels.  Converting timeshare points to reward points is definitely not a good use of points in my opinion.  There are just times when they are good to have available.  Not being able to use 2020 points seemed like a good time to stash them.


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## Talent312 (Dec 27, 2020)

Many of us, me included, are quick to dismiss complaints saying the poster
is out to lunch. They may be, but couldn't we show a little more empathy to
those who feel wronged or abused by "the man?  ... Nah...

.


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## Sebastiantheibis (Dec 27, 2020)

How long do Hilton Honor Points last?
What Facebook groups are recommended for HGVC TS users


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## Sebastiantheibis (Dec 27, 2020)

brp said:


> I have a feeling that it could be quite a number of people who do this. Those who don't know how to properly use HGVC and bHC points and what they're for. I fear that there are a lot. We are few.
> 
> Cheers.


How long do Hilton Honor points last?


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## dayooper (Dec 27, 2020)

Sebastiantheibis said:


> How long do Hilton Honor Points last?
> What Facebook groups are recommended for HGVC TS users



There‘s a couple groups, one that’s for resales. Quite frankly, those groups are OK, but they aren‘t really all that interesting. They are good for pictures of resorts, though. This group has more information than any of the groups. Just do a search and they will show up. There’s a TUG FB group as well.

IIRC, as long as you use the account (use points or make a reservation adding points), the HH points never expire. I remember awhile ago, it was reported that the salesman were pushing the use of HH points, even calling it the vault,


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## GT75 (Dec 27, 2020)

There are 3 HGVC FB groups that I know about; regular HGVC owners, elite HGVC owners, and HGVC resales.    I use HGVC resales to buy points and the only one which I have actively participate in only for that.


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## Sebastiantheibis (Dec 27, 2020)

GT75 said:


> There are 3 HGVC FB groups that I know about; regular HGVC owners, elite HGVC owners, and HGVC resales.    I use HGVC resales to buy points and the only one which I have actively participate in only for that.


Thank you


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## Wright17s (Dec 28, 2020)

GT75 said:


> There are 3 HGVC FB groups that I know about; regular HGVC owners, elite HGVC owners, and HGVC resales.    I use HGVC resales to buy points and the only one which I have actively participate in only for that.


Thanks; didn't know about the elite one...


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## tah (Dec 28, 2020)

GT75 said:


> There are 3 HGVC FB groups that I know about; regular HGVC owners, elite HGVC owners, and HGVC resales.    I use HGVC resales to buy points and the only one which I have actively participate in only for that.



Hello.  Can you be more specific with the names of the groups you think have value.  Thanks in advance.

A search of FB Groups with "HGVC" or "Hilton Grand" or  "Hilton Vacation Club" lists these potential groups (with ~500+ members each -- many more with smaller membership)
*The Best Hilton Grand Vacation Club Group*
Group · 10K members
*Hilton Grand Vacation Club resale bulletin board*
Group · 2.9K members
*HGV Timeshare Owners Group*
Group · 3K members
*Hilton Grand Vacation Owners Page*
Group · 4.1K members
*HGVC Timeshares For Sale Private Party*
Group · 970 members
*Hilton Grand Vacation Club Elite Members*
Group · 961 members
*Hilton Grand Vacation Club Timeshare Secrets*
Group · 378 members


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## NOLA47 (Dec 28, 2020)

I’m not on Facebook.  Just wondering if there is anything within the TUG forum for Hilton Grand Vacations elite members?


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## GT75 (Dec 28, 2020)

NOLA47 said:


> anything within the TUG forum for Hilton Grand Vacations elite members?



No, just the regular thread.      I really don't get much out of any of the FB pages including elite.


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## NOLA47 (Dec 28, 2020)

GT75 said:


> No, just the regular thread.      I really don't get much out of any of the FB pages including elite.


Thanks for saying that.  It was going to be my next question.  If there is much information provided on the Facebook pages.   thanks!!!


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## lindsey1 (Jan 2, 2021)

For those interested, as of this morning, 2 Jan 2021, the conversion ratio is still at 50% reduction. ie so much for the announced 1 January 2021 restoration of the HH conversions rates.


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