# Diamond Resorts Int'l or Diamond Ripoff Int'l



## biafrate (Nov 11, 2008)

I have just received my 2009 Maintenance Fees Invoice and am floored by what I am reading.  Diamond Resorts has provided the 2009 budget as:
Increase in Maintenance Fees of 20%
Increase in Reserve Contribution of 25%
Increase in Gen & Admin Expenses of 16%
But the best is:
Increase in MANAGEMENT FEES of 49.33%

Then they try to blame the increase on spiraling prices for oil and fuel??????
They suggest everything is increased due to the affect of the oil pricing on every other expense. 
BUT the increase in Management fees is not affected by oil????Is it????
They have now priced the Maintenance Fees of the Scottsdale Villa Mirage more than my Gold Crown Property in Aruba?????
Wow talk about pathetic Management.  Now I know why they need the increase.  They could not manage their way home let alone a resort.


----------



## dougp26364 (Nov 11, 2008)

After having given them the benefit of the doubt for much of this year I got a look at the MF's coming out of DRI. I agree *100%*. DRI is one of the bigger ripoff's in the timeshare industry. To top it off, delivery on their promises is only superficial. While everything else went sky high, reserve collections went *down*. That means a resort that is unsustainable without the need for a special assessment somewhere down the line. 

DRI promises more, charges more but delivers *LESS*. As an example, my platinum season 2 bedroom HGVC LV Strip maintenance fee's are $805 this year. They have two large pools, two smaller hot tubs and one large hot tub, valet parking AND a parking garage with over 3,000 parking spaces, a huge convience store with made to order pizza's, made to order sandwhich's, a Starbucks Express with prices cheaper than in the strip hotels and seating for several people, a pool side restaurant with table service, a full spa, an owners lounge, an elite owners lounge et...... To top it all off, HGVC collects $122 of the MF for their cash reserve AND that MF's includes club dues of $95!

Now, compare that to our Villa's and Suite's at Polo Towers units who's MF's are a little over $1,000 and $900. Polo Towers did away with it's owners lounge and turned it into personal office space for S. Cloobeck (now it's general office or so I'm told), one small/shallow roof top pool, one small roof top hot tub, a pathetic excuse for a convenience store that only has high prices but very little selection, pay laundry machines on every third floor rather than washer/dryer combo's in the units as at HGVC and that's about it. Out of those large MF's guess how much is going into the cash reserve? *$35* is all. Oh, and let's not forget, DRI's MF's do NOT include club dues which, BTW, went up another 5% this year to $235. Club dues are NOT included in the MF but are in ADDITION to the MF. Of course this 5% is for those who are math challanged. Last year the club dues were $155. Seems to me that a $80 increase in club dues over a 12 month period is a far site from any 5% increase!

HEY DRI! WE'RE NOT ALL COMPLETELY STUPID! You are RIPPING owners off with your high priced management but shallow delivery. You're charging far more than the major hotel chains charge but delivering far less in return. It's a sad day when you realize that the old Sunterra management may have been better management than DRI.


----------



## dougp26364 (Nov 11, 2008)

Opps, I forgot to mention DRI's defense when people challenge them on their MF schedule. Granted the HOA's set the MF's but, DRI CONTROLS THOSE HOA'S! So they can blame the HOA all they want but, when DRI controls the seats on those boards and essentially prevents them from giving DRI the boot is so richly deserves, then THEY control the MF's of each resort they manage.


----------



## CharlesS (Nov 12, 2008)

dougp26364 said:


> Granted the HOA's set the MF's but, DRI CONTROLS THOSE HOA'S!


I don't believe that DRI controls ALL of the HOA's.  It is important to owners who have owner elected HOA's to elect a good, strong board.  I know the impact a great board can have and will publicly thank the Cypress Pointe I board anytime.

Charles


----------



## dougp26364 (Nov 12, 2008)

CharlesS said:


> I don't believe that DRI controls ALL of the HOA's.  It is important to owners who have owner elected HOA's to elect a good, strong board.  I know the impact a great board can have and will publicly thank the Cypress Pointe I board anytime.
> 
> Charles



The only HOA's that are not under DRI control are the affiliate resorts that are not managed by DRI. DRI maintains a large enough block, either through developer owned inventory or through one of their trust, to keep control. DRI employee's can also own one week and, since DRI has the block of units to vote, they can vote in whomever they want to vote in. 

Probably the best way to be in THE Club would be to own at a resort NOT managed by DRI. For instance, Gatlinburg Town Square is managed by Summer Bay, even though GTS is listed as a resort in THE Club. Those owners don't have to put up with DRI controling their resort and their MF's.


----------



## dwsupt (Nov 12, 2008)

You have to pay for all those take overs some how. I mean how else do you expect them to be the biggest company in TS sales.


----------



## pianodinosaur (Nov 12, 2008)

dougp26364:

We were in Las Vegas for a weekend course this past summer.  There was a great deal of construction going on right next door to the Jockey Club.  Is the new construction going to be to the betterment or the detriment of the Jockey Club membership?  Is the Jockey Club in any way related to the Polo Towers?


----------



## pedro47 (Nov 12, 2008)

The best manage HOA board in the Diamond Resort chain is at Cypress Pointe I in FL..  Just looked at all the projects that this HOA board have completed in the past five (5) years and please look at their plan renovation villas for the future.   This HOA board even provides pictures of their completed projects and their on going projects.


----------



## dougp26364 (Nov 12, 2008)

pianodinosaur said:


> dougp26364:
> 
> We were in Las Vegas for a weekend course this past summer.  There was a great deal of construction going on right next door to the Jockey Club.  Is the new construction going to be to the betterment or the detriment of the Jockey Club membership?  Is the Jockey Club in any way related to the Polo Towers?




Jockey Club was originally developed as a timeshare by S. Cloobecks father and, at one time, was managed by what eventually became DRI.

When we first bought into Polo Towers back in 1998, DRI was promoting itself as having two resorts, JC and PT. When I posted something on these forums about JC and PT being managed by the same company, owners at JC were quick to point out that they tossed DRI out as their management company a few years back. 

The construction going on next to JC is the Cosmopolitan. How it will affect JC in the long run has yet to be seen. The original developer of the Cosmopolitan went bankrupt and is completely out of the picture. The build has been forclosed on and is the hands of the bank at this time. They are actively looking for a new buyer/owner/developer. Starwood, Hyatt and Hilton seem to be the top contenders to take over the project.

JC had an agreement with the original developer and, they gave up ground and views for promised amenities. Amenities which may or may not be honored by whomever the new owner of the Cosmo will be. Essentially, JC sold out.

It was published in an article sometime back that the owner of the land in front of Polo Towers that they had or were negotiating a deal to remove the height restriction in front of Polo Towers. From that article it appeared that the owners of units who's view would be blocked would be pennies on the dollar compared to the money DRI would take in. 

I see this much like the situation JC finds itself in now. DRI would sell out it's owners in a minute if there was a dime in it for them. Selling out that height restriction would put quick dollars in their pocket and could cause years of missery for PT's owners who bought based upon the view being sold by PT's along with the knowledge that DRI owned that land in front of PT's. Of course, DRI sold out that land but, sold prospective owners on the fact that they had an easement and a height restriction built into the sale so there would ALWAYS be access from LV Blv and owners would ALWAYS have that view. I guess they conveniently forgot that, built into the contracts was DRI's right to sell that view for a couple of dollars in hand.


----------



## BillR (Nov 12, 2008)

biafrate said:


> I have just received my 2009 Maintenance Fees Invoice and am floored by what I am reading.  Diamond Resorts has provided the 2009 budget as:
> Increase in Maintenance Fees of 20%
> Increase in Reserve Contribution of 25%
> Increase in Gen & Admin Expenses of 16%
> ...



[_Text removed at request of poster_ - Makai Guy, BBS Admin.]   *I am aware of the negative situation but I personally do not believe it is pathetic management, I believe that this is simply greed.  I would suggest you go to www.timeshareforums.com and read their threads.  This is a BAD situation?  

Their resorts are impossible to sell and "if" you turn them back to DRI, and I understand this is happening in droves, you will have to prepare the ocuments yourself and they will charge you $250.00 for their administrative cost.  

DID YOUR REALIZE THIS?  Fee Options have been devalued again, doubly. You only get 5 ¢/point when you trade in your points for Maintenance Fees or Club Dues, down from 5.85¢/point last year and ~ 7¢/point prior to that. Sunterrs gave .08 credit.  In the same time span the Trust MF has risen form 6.5¢ to 7.3¢ to the current 8.03¢/pt.  Oh, and THE CLUB dues was increased by $75.00 this summer.

ANYONE HAVE ANY IDEAS!​*


----------



## biafrate (Nov 13, 2008)

*DRI Maintenance Fee Increases*

I don't mean to sound too harsh but a 49% increase coupled with the other increases around the 20% mark seems absurd during the current economic crisis.  Forcing owners to pay exhorbitant increases does not make sense at this time.  We are all experiencing the effects of the recession.  Are they looking for defaulted payments?  I would think it best to try to keep the increases to a minimum and continue to allow owners the capability to afford the maintenance fees and over time post modest increases. Travel and vacations will be the first item crossed off many lists of non-essentials with the current state of affairs.   DRI, it appears, does not see the BIG PICTURE.  

Ten Maintenance fees with modest increases beats six with four defaults anyday in my books.  
Just my opinion.


----------



## pgnewarkboy (Nov 13, 2008)

Greed? How do you know who is greedy and who is not?  What exactly is a greedy corporation?  Is Marriott greedy because it devalues owner points every few years or are they just doing business to maximize profit?  Isn't that the goal of every business - to maximize profit? Cancelling dissenters reservations?  I would like to see the proof that DRI is cancelling dissenters reservations!  It is an absurd allegation on its face.

This board is being infested with hysterical and unsubstantiated claims and statements about DRI concerning their motives and actions.

If you think maintenance fees are too high or other fees are too high then say so.  The hysteria is not adding anything to the discussion.


----------



## dougp26364 (Nov 13, 2008)

BillR said:


> *I am aware of the negative situation but I personally do not believe it is pathetic management, I believe that this is simply greed.  I would suggest you go to www.timeshareforums.com and read their threads.  This is a BAD situation?
> 
> Their resorts are impossible to sell and "if" you turn them back to DRI, and I understand this is happening in droves, you will have to prepare the ocuments yourself and they will charge you $250.00 for their administrative cost.
> 
> ...




The points were only worth 5 cents last year (2008) as well. So there has been no further devaluation of point value for 2009.........yet.

It's going to be tough for them to cancel my reservations unless they have control of I.I. We haven't been pleased enough with DRI resorts or the ability to book internal exchanges through them that we've used them......or plan to use them.....for an internal exchange. Right now I'm holding enough points for two exchanges with I.I. and using the remaining points to offset these ridiculous management fee's DRI is charging owners.


----------



## dougp26364 (Nov 13, 2008)

pgnewarkboy said:


> Greed? How do you know who is greedy and who is not?  What exactly is a greedy corporation?  Is Marriott greedy because it devalues owner points every few years or are they just doing business to maximize profit?  Isn't that the goal of every business - to maximize profit? Cancelling dissenters reservations?  I would like to see the proof that DRI is cancelling dissenters reservations!  It is an absurd allegation on its face.
> 
> This board is being infested with hysterical and unsubstantiated claims and statements about DRI concerning their motives and actions.
> 
> If you think maintenance fees are too high or other fees are too high then say so.  The hysteria is not adding anything to the discussion.



They probably are not cancelling dissenters reservations. It's more likely that it's just DRI doing business as usual.

As an example from my own experience. DRI's Polo Towers requires MF's to be paid in advance if you're wanting to exchange next years week. I have often paid my MF's in advance and then deposited next years week with I.I. for an ongoing search. Almost every time I.I. has informed me that DRI-Polo Towers has refused to release the week.

It became habit for me to call Polo Towers reservations after making an exchange request for next years week to get them to release the week. Without fail they tried to tell me that my MF's must be paid in advance and then had to look it up after I gave them the confirmation number and date when I paid my fee's. Only then would they release the week for exchange.

It's not that they're retaliating, it's that they can't find their bums with both hands.

I would like a few examples of the "infestations" about hysterical and unsubstantiated claims. I believe I can susbstanitiate any claim I've personally made and, I've seen very few complaints on these forums that are hysterical. I find NOTHING funny about the high MF's and the lack of cash reserve's when compare to other resorts in the same neighborhood such as Hilton or Marriott. 

Would you like me to give you the complete numbers breakdown for the Suite's at Polo Towers, The Villa's at Polo Towers, Marriott's Grand Chateau and HGVC's LV Stip resorts? Since I own at all of these, it's very easy to do.


----------



## pianodinosaur (Nov 13, 2008)

dougp26364 said:


> Jockey Club was originally developed as a timeshare by S. Cloobecks father and, at one time, was managed by what eventually became DRI.
> 
> When we first bought into Polo Towers back in 1998, DRI was promoting itself as having two resorts, JC and PT. When I posted something on these forums about JC and PT being managed by the same company, owners at JC were quick to point out that they tossed DRI out as their management company a few years back.
> 
> ...



dougp26364:

Thank you for the detailed explanation about the relationship between the Jockey Club and Polo Towers.  It seems that history is about to repeat itself to the detriment of the owners at Polo Towers. 

DVI seems to have purchased the Embassy Vacation Club at Lake Tahoe and the Embassy Resort on Maui. Are the owners at these TS being shafted as well?


----------



## pgnewarkboy (Nov 13, 2008)

dougp26364 said:


> They probably are not cancelling dissenters reservations. It's more likely that it's just DRI doing business as usual.
> 
> As an example from my own experience. DRI's Polo Towers requires MF's to be paid in advance if you're wanting to exchange next years week. I have often paid my MF's in advance and then deposited next years week with I.I. for an ongoing search. Almost every time I.I. has informed me that DRI-Polo Towers has refused to release the week.
> 
> ...



By using the term "rip off" the whole "title" of this thread is hysterical and potentially defamatory. As I stated in my earlier post the use of the term "greed" which I have seen in many DRI threads is a loaded and unsubstantiated term.  Perhaps DRI and its owners are very charitable and great people.  I don't know them personally and the odds are great that nobody else on this board knows them either.

We all have the right not to like, or to like,  the way DRI or any other company does business.  I sometimes wonder what is on the mind of people who are posting these inflammatory statements.  When they bought their time shares did they think they were buying into a benevolent society for timeshare owners?  Buying a timeshare, like most things, is a calculated risk.  One of the most obvious risks is the cost of maintenance or other fees.  I am not aware of any timeshare company that makes a guarantee that there will be no increases in fees or other costs. Further, there is no guarantee that your timeshare will be properly managed or maintained.  Similarly, there are no guarantees that your timeshare will maintain value.  Anybody who has lived long enough realizes there are no guarantees of any kind in life.

There is absolutely no justification for calling DRI ripoffs (crooks), greedy, or any other inflammatory name unless you can actually prove in a court of law  that they have done something crooked to you.  Some people may find themselves in a court of law having to defend these statements.

I have had no problem making reservations in II or Diamond for 09 using the club.  I have never had a reservation cancelled by Sunterra or Diamond for any reason.

The TUG BBS can take this post as a complaint about how this thread is being managed.


----------



## dougp26364 (Nov 13, 2008)

pianodinosaur said:


> dougp26364:
> 
> Thank you for the detailed explanation about the relationship between the Jockey Club and Polo Towers.  It seems that history is about to repeat itself to the detriment of the owners at Polo Towers.
> 
> DVI seems to have purchased the Embassy Vacation Club at Lake Tahoe and the Embassy Resort on Maui. Are the owners at these TS being shafted as well?



I have no idea. I don't know of anyone that owns these resorts and I haven't read any complaints that I recall from anyone who owns at these resorts.


----------



## dougp26364 (Nov 13, 2008)

pgnewarkboy said:


> By using the term "rip off" the whole "title" of this thread is hysterical and potentially defamatory. As I stated in my earlier post the use of the term "greed" which I have seen in many DRI threads is a loaded and unsubstantiated term.  Perhaps DRI and its owners are very charitable and great people.  I don't know them personally and the odds are great that nobody else on this board knows them either.
> 
> We all have the right not to like, or to like,  the way DRI or any other company does business.  I sometimes wonder what is on the mind of people who are posting these inflammatory statements.  When they bought their time shares did they think they were buying into a benevolent society for timeshare owners?  Buying a timeshare, like most things, is a calculated risk.  One of the most obvious risks is the cost of maintenance or other fees.  I am not aware of any timeshare company that makes a guarantee that there will be no increases in fees or other costs. Further, there is no guarantee that your timeshare will be properly managed or maintained.  Similarly, there are no guarantees that your timeshare will maintain value.  Anybody who has lived long enough realizes there are no guarantees of any kind in life.
> 
> ...



You're certainly entitled to you opinion. Others are entitled to theirs as well. As on owner with DRI since 1998, I have a long history with them. As an owner of 7 timeshares, I can compare what I own with DRI to what I own with other companies and how they are managed. I feel I have earned the right to my opinion.


----------



## pgnewarkboy (Nov 13, 2008)

I agree with you completely.  You are entitled to your opinion and the board is all about opinions.  Opinions can be very helpful and this is basically a very helpful group of people on TUG.  The discourse, however,  is only improved when there is civility - not hostility.


----------



## pianodinosaur (Nov 13, 2008)

*Resorts currently owned or managed by Diamond Resorts International*

I am providing a link to the DRI website.  This lists all the resorts currently owned or managed by DRI.  The Embassy resorts in Lake Tahoe and in Maui have had their names changed but I have seen both resorts before when they were managed by Embassy. 
https://www.diamondresorts.com/index.aspx

This controversy affects me because I am considering an exchange into these resorts and possible exchange into the Sahara Sunset Club in Malaga.


----------



## dougp26364 (Nov 13, 2008)

pianodinosaur said:


> I am providing a link to the DRI website.  This lists all the resorts currently owned or managed by DRI.  The Embassy resorts in Lake Tahoe and in Maui have had their names changed but I have seen both resorts before when they were managed by Embassy.
> https://www.diamondresorts.com/index.aspx
> 
> This controversy affects me because I am considering an exchange into these resorts and possible exchange into the Sahara Sunset Club in Malaga.




I really don't think you'll have issues exchanging into these resorts as an internal exchange. The only issues I see are reports that internal exchange availability seems to be less than in the past. Since I've not been a member of THE Club very long (less than 1 year), I can't comment on how easy, or hard, internal exchanges were before DRI took over Sunterra. I have read posts that seem to indicate availability is less than a couple of years ago but, I've seen no hard proof of that as of yet.

I can say that, I looked at last minute internal exchanges into the Suite's at Fall Creek in Branson both this year and last year. Last year, there was plenty of availability for standard units. This year there was nothing available for the dates we we wanted to go. Now DRI has made changes to their web site and it is possible that I could have called and found that the web site wasn't accurate and that units were actually available. Since I really wasn't that interested in exchanging into the Suite's at Fall Creek, I didn't take the extra step of making that phone call. Instead, I made exchanges through I.I. into Horizon's by Marriott.

DRI is a lot of things but, I don't seem them as intentionally canceling confirmed reservations to get back at those that speak out against them. I can see them having issues with acknowleding that MF's have been paid, crediting the account properly and, canceling an exchange because they don't show the MF's as paid. I've personally had that happen to me more than once when making exchanges through I.I. and DRI refusing to release my unit week because they can't keep up with the bookeeping on their end of the deal. 

I recently had an issue with DRI over a $155 overcharge. When I converted to THE Club, part of the deal was the first years club dues were to be waived. In the middle of the year, they added the $70 assessment to THE Club dues, which I paid. Then, they hit me with an additional $155 charge because I hadn't paid 2008's membership dues. 

Knowing their past and how trigger happy they can be to cancel memberships, I paid the $155 fee and proceeded to protest through the correct channels at DRI. I believe I still have all the E-mails that ensued and you'd be surprised at the number of excuses they would come up with trying to convince me that, despite what I had in writing from them, I owed them that $155.

Finally, they acknowledged that they had agreed to waive that 2008 fee but, they still did not refund the money. It took another 2 or 3 e-mails to get them to understand that I had paid the fee and they needed to refund that money. They agreed to refund the money but, they didn't do it. After another couple of e-mails I was informed that the refund would show up as a CREDIT on my account. 

Hmmm, I give them the money that I did not owe them but, they refuse to give it back to me. All they would have had to have done was issue a credit to the credit card I used to pay the fee. This was to inconvenient for them to do so I was issued a credit. It took several weeks but the credit did finally show up on my account. 

I supose I could argue the loss of interest on that $155 but, it really wouldn't have been a lot of money to me. What makes me wonder is how many other Polo Towers owners that converted to THE Club found themselves in the same situation. I also wonder how many of them were not as peresistant as I was an just gave up, allowing DRI to keep the money. I've learned the hard way to keep the paper trail with DRI to prove my point when necessary and I wasn't going to let them off the hook. 

Now, if this falls into the catagory of crook then so be it. I personally feel it just falls into the catagory of incompetence. I don't believe it was intentional. I do believe they just don't have the ablitity to run their operation in an efficient manner. IMO it's been an ongoing problem and, with larger size comes larger mistakes.


----------



## dougp26364 (Nov 13, 2008)

OK, I have recieved paper copies of our DRI-Polo Towers, HGVC LV Stip and Marriott's Grand Chateau MF's and their break down. All are based on 2 bedroom units.

As you can see, DRI is providing LESS value for what they're charging. Some might equate this with the word ripoff. 
-----------------------------------------------------------
*DRI's the Suite's at Polo Towers*
Total Maintenance fee's $898
of which you will find included:

Management fee's $76
Administrative expenses $157
(total management and administrative fee's of $233)
*Cash Reserve's $45*
Taxes $50
------------------------------------------------------------
*Marriott's Grand Chateau*
Total Maintenance fee's $922
of which you will find included

Management fee's $83.88
Administration $38.12
(total management and administrative fee's $122)
*Cash Reserve's $178.86 *
taxes $45.50
-------------------------------------------------------------
*HGVC LV Strip*
Total MF's of $806.75
of which you will find included

Total administrative fee's (includes management fee) $108.60
*Cash reserves $122.80*
Taxes $53.44

Also included in the HGVC fee's are their club dues of $95. With DRI, club dues are in ADDITION to the MF's and are now $235. 

So, you tell me, what sort of "deal" is it to own with DRI? Would you call it a rip off when two similar resorts, both of which offer MORE amenities than the DRI resort, charge considerably LESS in management fee's and put considerably MORE into cash reserves to take care of the resort? It seems to me that DRI takes care of itself first with left overs going to take care of the resort. Marriott and Hilton, on the other hand, are putting considerably more money aside to take care of the resort which in turn protects the owners of the resort.


----------



## dougp26364 (Nov 13, 2008)

If you'd like, I could also compare and contrast the amenities provided by each resort. But if I do that, you'll once again find that DRI provides LESS value than either Marriott or Hilton while charging owners more for their management ability. Did I mention that I've had more trouble with DRI when reserving, depositing and exchanging that I've had with Hilton and Marriott combined? 

If DRI provided value for what they're charging, I wouldn't complain so often or loudly. However they have continually provided less quality, fewer amenities and charged higher prices than either Marriott or Hilton.


----------



## pgnewarkboy (Nov 13, 2008)

How do you know that the marriott cash reserve  that you quote is sufficient?  Perhaps it is not.  It is hard to tell without more detailed information.  Perhaps the DRI and MARRIOTT cash reserves are both insufficent. Or maybe, they are both sufficient based upon the circumstances of each resort.  Hard to know without many more details, but you are entitled to your opinion.   If you think Marriott is a better value for your money, you are also entitled to that opinion.  But to say you are being "ripped off" is to imply that you are being stolen from by DRI.  That is what the term rip off means, as in "ripping off" someone's purse or wallet in a robbery.  I am unaware of any law that says offering an inferior product, in your view, at a high price is a crime.   Buyer beware.  Purchasers of all sorts of things may at one time or another feel that they didn't get the best deal.  They may be right or wrong depending on their circumstances.  It doesn't mean they have been ripped off.

I have belonged to Sunterra then Diamond for over 10 years.  Overall, I am extremely satisfied.


----------



## dougp26364 (Nov 14, 2008)

pgnewarkboy said:


> How do you know that the marriott cash reserve  that you quote is sufficient?  Perhaps it is not.  It is hard to tell without more detailed information.  Perhaps the DRI and MARRIOTT cash reserves are both insufficent. Or maybe, they are both sufficient based upon the circumstances of each resort.  Hard to know without many more details, but you are entitled to your opinion.   If you think Marriott is a better value for your money, you are also entitled to that opinion.  But to say you are being "ripped off" is to imply that you are being stolen from by DRI.  That is what the term rip off means, as in "ripping off" someone's purse or wallet in a robbery.  I am unaware of any law that says offering an inferior product, in your view, at a high price is a crime.   Buyer beware.  Purchasers of all sorts of things may at one time or another feel that they didn't get the best deal.  They may be right or wrong depending on their circumstances.  It doesn't mean they have been ripped off.
> 
> I have belonged to Sunterra then Diamond for over 10 years.  Overall, I am extremely satisfied.



So how much detail do you want?

DRI has hit Polo Towers owners with two special assessments in 10 years time. One was a little over $200 for every two bedroom unit to install a water treatment system to prevent another outbreak of legionaires, improve security and remove the tennis courts and replace them with a family water park. The second SA cost owners of 2 bedroom units >$1,000 each to refurbish their units to maintain 5 star status with I.I. I believe it's obvious that $45 per two bedroom unit is not sufficient cash reserves to maintain the resort for an extended period of time without requiring owners kick in another special assessment down the line. 

Of, I guess I should mention that that SA for the water treatment system to prevent another outbreak of legioniares was for nothing. Polo Towers recently got hit with additional cases of legionaires and had the health department on their case.......again. Gee, I wonder what happened to the money for that water treatment system that was suppose to prevent this from happening again?

I guess you'll have to come up with reasons why DRI's management fee's are so much higher than either Hilton or Marriott. Marriott is well known for having some of the highest management fee's in the industry. DRI's management fee's are actually 90% higher than Marriott's. Things that make you go hmmmmmmm.

One last thing. Since DRI has taken over Sunterra, club dues, which were $155 this time last year are now $235. That's a 50% jump in fee's in less than 12 months. Do you feel that your getting 50% more value for your money?


----------



## dougp26364 (Nov 14, 2008)

Opps, in my above post, I incorrectly posted figures for the Suite's at Polo Towers 2 bedroom unit. Those figures are comparing the Suite's at Polo Towers MF's for *2008* to Hilton and Marriott's MF's for 2009.

These are the corrected figures for The Suite's at Polo Towers for 2009.

 Total MF $921.05

Management and administrative fee's $280
Cash reserves $56
Taxes $57

As you can see, it only get's worse with the management/administrative fee's and doesn't get much better with the cash reserve's. When compared to Marriott and Hilton, the true 2009 number look even worse than my original comparison, which was DRI's 2008 numbers to the others 2009 number.

Marriott has management/admin fee's of $122 while HGVC come in just under $109. 

So what do you think DRI's management team does that cost's so much more than Marriott or Hilton?


----------



## pgnewarkboy (Nov 14, 2008)

In my view, it is very hard to make a head to head comparison between Marriott and the DRI Club because they are entirely different kinds of systems.  One is a hotel based limited points system and the other is a points based timeshare system.  DRI gives me the flexibility to use my points every year.  That is what suits me.  I like the quality of DRI resorts.  

I have zero problems getting the vacations I want from DRI or II.  I find the DRI phone help to be excellent.  I think their web search could use improvement.  They bought back one of my resorts at a good price and they payed all closing fees.  There were no difficulties.  

I think it is very difficult for a timeshare consumer to actually know the basis for fees and costs whether it be Marriott, DRI, or any other company.  You are entitled to think they are too high.  I basically view my timeshare ownership as pre-paid vacations.  I assumed from the start that no matter who I dealt with I would be to a very large extent at the mercy of big corporations.  The mf /vacation equation works for me.  I didn't go into timesharing to own vacation resorts.  I went into it to take vacations.    

I think your posts have been very detailed and offer information to people that might be of use to them.  My only point has been that the use of name calling and inflammatory language is not the way to go.  Attributing bad motives or unethical/criminal behavior to people or companies is a slippery slope and basically not provable. It is not pleasant or useful to engage in such discourse.


----------



## biafrate (Nov 14, 2008)

*The magnitude of the increase is the point I was making!*

I initiated this post to reflect on the magnitude of the increases and the feeble excuses used to justify such gregarious increases.  
The essence of the justification was:
 "the spiraling prices for oil and fuel, which are escalating the cost of almost every good and service that touches our lives, made this budget season especially challenging."  
I concur, the cost of fuel and oil can certainly have direct impact on expenses.  The annoyance is with respect to the 49.33 % increase for Management Fees, the 16.35% increase for Gen & Admin Expenses, none of which have the same direct relationship to the cost of fuel or oil.  I only make comment suggesting these increases, whether warranted or not, could have been implemented on a progressive basis over several years.....not all at once in the same year.  
2007 Mtce Fee $462.53  Replacement Reserve $107.47
2008 Mtce Fee $564.17 Replacement Reserve  $149.59
2009 Mtce Fee $677.00 Replacement Reserve  $186.99 (over 50% increase over the two years.)


Rather excessive


----------



## Sunterra (Nov 14, 2008)

biafrate said:


> I initiated this post to reflect on the magnitude of the increases and the feeble excuses used to justify such gregarious increases.
> The essence of the justification was:
> "the spiraling prices for oil and fuel, which are escalating the cost of almost every good and service that touches our lives, made this budget season especially challenging."
> I concur, the cost of fuel and oil can certainly have direct impact on expenses.  The annoyance is with respect to the 49.33 % increase for Management Fees, the 16.35% increase for Gen & Admin Expenses, none of which have the same direct relationship to the cost of fuel or oil.  I only make comment suggesting these increases, whether warranted or not, could have been implemented on a progressive basis over several years.....not all at once in the same year.
> ...


I don't think that any increase, no matter how big, in Replacement Reserve is unjustified.  Developers have notoriously kept this part of MFs low to make MFs more attractive to new buyers which then results in Special Assessments because they didn't reserve/budget realistically.  Now the Mgmt fee increases are not realistic.


----------



## dougp26364 (Nov 14, 2008)

pgnewarkboy said:


> In my view, it is very hard to make a head to head comparison between Marriott and the DRI Club because they are entirely different kinds of systems.  One is a hotel based limited points system and the other is a points based timeshare system.  DRI gives me the flexibility to use my points every year.  That is what suits me.  I like the quality of DRI resorts.
> 
> I have zero problems getting the vacations I want from DRI or II.  I find the DRI phone help to be excellent.  I think their web search could use improvement.  They bought back one of my resorts at a good price and they payed all closing fees.  There were no difficulties.
> 
> ...




You may not be able to compare systems but, it is very easy to compare how individual resorts are managed and where the money is going. With DRI managed resorts, it seems obvious to me that to much of the money is going to pay management and administrative costs, which benefits the management company, while sacraficing cash reserves, which benefits the owners.

It's not the cost of the MF that has me ticked off. It's where the money is going. With DRI, the money is not going to the owners benefit, it's going into DRI's pockets. With Marriott and Hilton there is considerably less money going into their pockets while more money is being set aside in cash reserves to protect the owners investment in their timeshare. 

I suppose if you're in favor of paying more in management fee's and less in cash reserves for refurbishments, emergancy situations and uprgading your resort, then you'll have no problem with DRI. Personally, I feel that, based upon what others are doing, DRI has management that is priced far above the average. What I want to know is why? What makes them so special that they deserve to be paid twice what Marriott and Hilton charge for the same services? Better yet, how do I get rid of DRI and get someone in who doesn't charge almost $300 per 2 bedroom unit.


----------



## dougp26364 (Nov 14, 2008)

Sunterra said:


> I don't think that any increase, no matter how big, in Replacement Reserve is unjustified.  Developers have notoriously kept this part of MFs low to make MFs more attractive to new buyers which then results in Special Assessments because they didn't reserve/budget realistically.  Now the Mgmt fee increases are not realistic.



I agree. MF's need to be at adaquate levels to support the resort. This is my MAJOR issue with DRI's management of Polo Towers. Management fee's double that of Marriott and Hilton in the same town (Vegas) and reserve funding that's over 50% less. This poor ratio of Management fee's to cash reserve fee's is upside down and is going to lead to major problems for owners somewhere in the future.


----------



## pianodinosaur (Nov 14, 2008)

*Why so many different resorts in Las Vegas*

Dougp26364:

It is quite apparent that you that you do a great deal of research and think things through very carefully.  You own at Polo Towers, Marriott Grand Chateau, and HGVC on the Strip. Do you just love Las Vegas?  Is there an advantage to owning property with so many different companies?

I own 24,000 points with HGVC all of which are in Orlando. I like Orlando but not every year or every other year.  Owning HGVC points is very flexible and has enabled me to cruise and visit other countries in a way that I would not have done prior to entering the wonderful world of timesharing.  With HGVC points are points. 

Does the Marriott Grand Chateau trade well within the Marriott system?  Would ownership at the Marriott Grand Chateau let you book easily at a Marriott TS in Marbella, Maui, or Lake Tahoe?  Would DVI let you trade more easily into Malaga, Maui, or St. Marteen?

By the way, I love Las Vegas.


----------



## dougp26364 (Nov 14, 2008)

pianodinosaur said:


> Dougp26364:
> 
> It is quite apparent that you that you do a great deal of research and think things through very carefully.  You own at Polo Towers, Marriott Grand Chateau, and HGVC on the Strip. Do you just love Las Vegas?  Is there an advantage to owning property with so many different companies?
> 
> ...



There's no advantage. It just sort of worked out that way.

We started with Polo Towers because we fell in love with Vegas. We purchased a second unit there because we were traveling to Vegas 3 and 4 times per year at one point. Polo Towers was starting to lag behind what others were doing and we ended up buying into Hilton and later into the Marriott resort. We bought those because of the quality and value and, we started exchanging our Polo Towers units for other locations and into other timeshare systems with better quality and/or better amenities. 

MGC has exchanged reasonably well. We've used our 1 bedroom LO to trade back into MGC, to exchange into a 2 bedroom at Barony Beach Club for May, to exchange for a 1 bedroom Marriott's Custom House in Boston for May and we've exchange the master suite 2 bedroom unit (we own a 3 bedroom LO) for a March week at Newport Coast Villa's. 

We bought into HGVC becasue we loved the flexablity and the quality. Originally we purchased at the LV Hilton and had a 5000 point EOY contract. We later upgraded to an EY 7,000 point contract at the newer LV Strip location. I just wish Hilton would build in more diverse locations.


----------



## biafrate (Nov 15, 2008)

*I could not agree more........but within reason*



Sunterra said:


> I don't think that any increase, no matter how big, in Replacement Reserve is unjustified.  Developers have notoriously kept this part of MFs low to make MFs more attractive to new buyers which then results in Special Assessments because they didn't reserve/budget realistically.  Now the Mgmt fee increases are not realistic.



I understand the need for increases in both maintenance fees and Replacement Reserves.  I am fine with the reserve.  I have a difficult time when the maintenance fee is reassessed by 49% and see the Management fees are the main contributing factor.  It is not oil and fuel.  That is just a "smoke and mirrors" attempt to get the owners to buy in.  

I am the owner of seven timeshares, all of which are rated Gold Crown and now thanks to DRI, my Scottsdale Villa Mirage ranks highest in cost but rest assured the SVM ranks lowest in value.


----------



## dougp26364 (Nov 15, 2008)

biafrate said:


> I understand the need for increases in both maintenance fees and Replacement Reserves.  I am fine with the reserve.  I have a difficult time when the maintenance fee is reassessed by 49% and see the Management fees are the main contributing factor.  It is not oil and fuel.  That is just a "smoke and mirrors" attempt to get the owners to buy in.
> 
> I am the owner of seven timeshares, all of which are rated Gold Crown and now thanks to DRI, my Scottsdale Villa Mirage ranks highest in cost but rest assured the SVM ranks lowest in value.



I'm with you on this. Marriott hits me with some pretty big MF's but, a good portion of those MF's is in the cash reserve. I look at the cash reserve as proteting my investment in my resort and I really don't mind paying that so long as the resort management isn't getting carried away with amenities that aren't used by a majority of the owners. 

However, my DRI management/administrative fee's are by far the highest of my 7 timeshares. What I want to know is WHY are they so high? If I was receiving the very best of the best in service and value, I might not rant about this so much. But DRI hasn't provided anything close to the best service out of the timeshares I own. In fact, they're at the bottom when you consider the number of errors they've made and the difficulty I've had getting those errors corrected.......if they can be corrected at all. 

There is NO WAY that DRI can justify management fee's that are 100% higher (and more in most cases) than any of my other timeshares. To through salt in the wound, DRI's cash reserves are the lowest of all the timeshares we own. 

On the surface, the fee's might be the same but, all one has to do is look at the numbers breakdown to see that DRI is ripping off it's owners by sliding far more money than is necessary into management/administrative cost and balancing that by taking away from what should be going into cash reserves. 

I tell you what, if DRI would balance those numbers I'm seeing, say putting $150 into cash reserves and only charging $180 in management fee's (this would still keep the MF at the same level), I wouldn't be complaining or crying that owners are getting ripped off by DRI. There's NO WAY DRI can tell me it can't be done. I have to perfect examples with Marriott and Hilton that would prove them wrong. Same city and, in Marriott's case, same location in the same city. They can't lie to me and tell me that the cost of keeping good employee's is that high in Vegas.


----------



## nightnurse613 (Nov 16, 2008)

I still haven't received my paper verification of fees but I see my Ridge on Sedona is up more than a couple of hundred dollars.  I expected it to go up since they had a problem at the main pool site which required total reconstruction however, I was surprised to see DRI also include it in their justification for THE Club fee increases!:annoyed: I am braced since I have received the Fall 2008 Dear DRI US Collection Member letter and the Dear Valued Member of THE Club!   Yes, I am already feeling very valued!


----------



## biafrate (Nov 24, 2008)

*I see a pattern forming with DRI*

Huge Maintenance Fee increases for everyone.  
Wow, talk about gouging!


----------



## dougp26364 (Nov 24, 2008)

biafrate said:


> Huge Maintenance Fee increases for everyone.
> Wow, talk about gouging!




Not so much huge MF increases but huge Admin/Management fee increases. 

If the large increases had mostly been in cash reserves for the properties, something that actually protects owners from future needs seen and unforseen, I wouldn't be so upset. Instead DRI's admin/management fee's are significantly higher than even Marriott's. Something I find totally unacceptable and, IMO, gouging the owners.

DRI is certainly a resort management group I would advise people to stay far away from. Unfortunately, DRI was the first timeshare's we purchased and now appear to be stuck with them. That is unless I decide to dump them for $1 on E-bay.


----------



## rfrome (Nov 27, 2008)

*Getting out of The Club*

We don't need to belong to The Club along with Diamond Resorts, if we have means to exchange through other organizations, e.g. RCI, II. Since I have an RCI membership and three other timeshares, I am canceling my Club membership and will forego paying $255+ per year for an exchange system I don't need.


----------



## dougp26364 (Nov 27, 2008)

rfrome said:


> We don't need to belong to The Club along with Diamond Resorts, if we have means to exchange through other organizations, e.g. RCI, II. Since I have an RCI membership and three other timeshares, I am canceling my Club membership and will forego paying $255+ per year for an exchange system I don't need.




The only reason for belonging to THE Club is to increase the opportunity for exchange through I.I. and, to offeset the increased MF's by using unused points to pay down the MF's. 

For instance, in our case we could use 13,000 or our 26,500 points for two 2 bedroom exchanges. We could then use the remaining 13,500 points to reduce our MF's by $675. Even with the $255 fee we're still saving $420. 

Or, we could use those 26,500 points for four 2 bedroom exchanges. If we did that I suppose one could look at the MF's plus THE Club fee's and say you paying the average amount for 4 units. 

However, it still doesn't excuse DRI for charging double what most management companies charge to manage a resort. They're still sticking it to their owners pretty darn well. Eventually I look for even these benefits to be erroded away by greedy management.


----------



## Sunterra (Nov 27, 2008)

rfrome said:


> We don't need to belong to The Club along with Diamond Resorts, if we have means to exchange through other organizations, e.g. RCI, II. Since I have an RCI membership and three other timeshares, I am canceling my Club membership and will forego paying $255+ per year for an exchange system I don't need.


What is the underlying ownership with DRI?  What it is dictates what you may be able to do with it when it's out of THE Club.



dougp26364 said:


> The only reason for belonging to THE Club is to increase the opportunity for exchange through I.I. and, to offeset the increased MF's by using unused points to pay down the MF's.
> 
> For instance, in our case we could use 13,000 or our 26,500 points for two 2 bedroom exchanges. We could then use the remaining 13,500 points to reduce our MF's by $675. Even with the $255 fee we're still saving $420.
> 
> ...


Reducing your MFs, which for DRUSC is ~10¢, with a 5¢ credit per point is pretty silly :hysterical: .  Take more vacations.


----------



## dougp26364 (Nov 27, 2008)

Sunterra said:


> Reducing your MFs, which for DRUSC is ~10¢, with a 5¢ credit per point is pretty silly :hysterical: .  Take more vacations.




Well let's see, I currently take 1 weeks vacation every other month or 6 per year. At this time this is the most I can manage to take off where I work. I suppose if I were retired, I could take more vacations but, that's not possible now. So you suggestion to take more vacations is just a little bit on the ridiculous side for us.  

Presently we own, as previously mentioned, 7 timeshares. We do not stay at Polo Towers anymore since we also own at HGVC and Marriott, which IMHO are nicer resorts. Polo Towers has become exchange units for us. 

You're also assuming that we are in the trust, which we are not. So your assumption about 10 cents per point is a little off. 

Yes selling points back at 5 cents per points is a RIP OFF. However, since if I used all 26,500 points I'd have to be capable of taking 9 weeks off per year, I think it's a better deal to just sell back the pionts I can't use. 

Now, what I'd REALLY like would be for DRI to honor the buy back deal they made with me to purchase BOTH of my Polo Towers units and I'd be done with them completely. However, DRI is not exactly good on their word and they backed out of the deal. Not only are they not good on their word, they didn't even have the decency to let me know they weren't going to follow through on their written comitement to buy back these units. I had to literaly HUNT THEM DOWN to get any information out of them. 

So, for the time being I'll take my two weeks exchange and sell back what I can't use to reduce the MF's and attempt to keep them at a reasonable level while still getting the two weeks vacation I can manage to use. One way or another, I'd still only be using these units for 2 weeks vacaiton. I might as well get those 2 weeks AND reduce my MF's at the same time. 

Now, if you'd like to buy these units from me at the price DRI had agreed upon, I'd be happy to sell them to you and then you could take more vacations. I'd do just fine with the remaining 5 timeshares we own plus, I could use that money to buy a 6th timeshare with a quality management company.


----------



## pgnewarkboy (Dec 1, 2008)

Consult an attorney if DRI backed out on a signed deal.  If you didn't have a signed deal you PROBABLY had no deal at all.  I would still, however, consult with an attorney on that to be sure.


----------



## KathyA (Dec 1, 2008)

*More on maintenance fees*



dougp26364 said:


> The only reason for belonging to THE Club is to increase the opportunity for exchange through I.I. and, to offeset the increased MF's by using unused points to pay down the MF's. QUOTE]
> 
> Actually, there may be another reason.  I believe that DRI is trying to force everyone to convert to The Club.  I own two high-season weeks at Flamingo Resort in St. Martin.  Last year they raised the maintenance fees over 20%.  This year they have raised them over 30% more!  They are now asking $1013 per week maintenance fees for my sleep-4 studio!  This in spite of the fact that the resort is in "good" financial condition.   I have inquired as to what the maintenance fee would be if I converted to points (The Club).  The maintenance fees for the same two weeks would be $190 (base), $225 (club dues), and $1092 for 10,500 points.  That equals $1507, which is $519 cheaper than I am paying for my two weeks now.  That also includes 1500 more points than my two weeks are worth now (currently valued at 4500 points per week).  The cost for converting to The Club is $4300 for those extra 1500 points--a condition of conversion.  I think I'm just going to sell my two weeks for super cheap to unload them as this is ridiculous.


----------



## dougp26364 (Dec 1, 2008)

pgnewarkboy said:


> Consult an attorney if DRI backed out on a signed deal.  If you didn't have a signed deal you PROBABLY had no deal at all.  I would still, however, consult with an attorney on that to be sure.



Nothing signed. Everything was via E-mail. If I had actually received the signed contracts I would be forcing them through whatever channels were avialble to compete the transaction.


----------



## dougp26364 (Dec 1, 2008)

KathyA said:


> dougp26364 said:
> 
> 
> > The only reason for belonging to THE Club is to increase the opportunity for exchange through I.I. and, to offeset the increased MF's by using unused points to pay down the MF's. QUOTE]
> ...


----------



## JRS (Dec 7, 2008)

KathyA said:


> dougp26364 said:
> 
> 
> > The only reason for belonging to THE Club is to increase the opportunity for exchange through I.I. and, to offeset the increased MF's by using unused points to pay down the MF's. QUOTE]
> ...


----------



## lv_maui (Dec 21, 2008)

*DRI is not a rip off but ............*

I do not think that DRI is a rip off, because what they are trying to do is to get maintenance fees in line with where they should have been in the past.  Old Sunterra liked to keep fees low for sales purposes.

But in reading TUG posts etc., what I do think is absolutely wrong is the allocation of certain office costs to the HOA's and Trust.  So, not only do you pay the standard management fees but probably a split of HR costs, software expenses, etc.  I think that is where you will find that DRI does not compare with other competitive properties. 

Now that I say that I wonder if we pay for some of the DRI corporate jet costs like Wall Street has.

The Trust was created for many good reasons.  2 of which are that they stay in control of HOA's for perpetuity and second, they can get back the points with merely mailing a letter.  Good for DRI but not good for members.


----------

