# [2012] Intense Harbour Point sale on eBay



## NKN (Oct 11, 2012)

I participated in the eBay auction for a platinum week 32 at Harbour Point.  Sad to say I didn't win.  But the last 15 seconds probably had 10 of us sitting at our computers.  Congratulations to the person who won!!   Ending bid was $175+/-.


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## EKniager (Oct 11, 2012)

http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=180355


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## NKN (Oct 11, 2012)

I REALLY want a second Marriott timeshare, so I guess I am going to have to be a little more aggressive in my bidding, in the future.

See you in the marktplace!!


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## Gophesjo (Oct 11, 2012)

Will it pass ROFR?  I bid, but think it was a snipe bid that got it...


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## NKN (Oct 11, 2012)

Okay.   Education time.   *What's a "snipe bid" ? * And curses to the person who invented it.


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## swaits (Oct 11, 2012)

NKN said:


> Okay.   Education time.   *What's a "snipe bid" ? * And curses to the person who invented it.



It's just a bid that is posted within the closing seconds of an auction. The theory is that it doesn't give others time to "emotionally" react with a higher bid.


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## rsackett (Oct 11, 2012)

Gophesjo said:


> Will it pass ROFR?  I bid, but think it was a snipe bid that got it...



No ROFR at Harbour Point.  That was a great price!  I was watching it too, If I did not already own a week 32 there I would have bought it and been willing to pay quite a bit more than it went for!

Ray


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## NKN (Oct 11, 2012)

But, if we were ALL sitting in front of our computers trying to get the winning bid in at the last second, aren't we ALL guility of a snipe bid?


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## rsackett (Oct 11, 2012)

NKN said:


> But, if we were ALL sitting in front of our computers trying to get the winning bid in at the last second, aren't we ALL guility of a snipe bid?



There are "Snipe" software programs that can do it automatically, sometimes even within the last second!

Ray


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## NKN (Oct 11, 2012)

Hmm...interesting.   

That's one issue that the Bidshares Auction site works around.  If someone bids within the last half hour on an auction, they automatically add another 30 minutes onto the timer.  They don't stop the auction until people stop bidding.


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## ondeadlin (Oct 11, 2012)

NKN said:


> Hmm...interesting.
> 
> That's one issue that the Bidshares Auction site works around.  If someone bids within the last half hour on an auction, they automatically add another 30 minutes onto the timer.  They don't stop the auction until people stop bidding.



Good for the seller, bad for the buyer IMO.


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## jme (Oct 11, 2012)

Maybe it's just me, but what's the real difference between $175 and say, $400 when it comes to a platinum Marriott timeshare at Hilton Head???? Enter $400 as a max and you win, and apparently at $176. or have to pay $400....so, big deal. 

Imagine what you could have done with that week... first year's rental and you make a profit, most likely covering the purchase price plus MF. far better than losing the auction and having nothing.

If I wanted a week there, that small difference would not even be relevant.


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## EKniager (Oct 11, 2012)

Well, I went through that scenario with my wife.  We didn't see any data that showed Harbour Point to rent for much above MF.  At "almost-free" it was interesting and would give us some added flexibility, albeit with another $1,000 January obligation.  You are right though.  I was there at 1 sec and stopped at $165.  When you mentally set a limit/value, it's best to stay disciplined regardless if it goes for $10 more.  Sounds silly but I think it is too easy to get caught up in the excitement of the auction.


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## EKniager (Oct 11, 2012)

NKN said:


> I REALLY want a second Marriott timeshare, so I guess I am going to have to be a little more aggressive in my bidding, in the future.
> 
> See you in the marktplace!!



If you take the buy-in into consideration, Harbour Point and Manor Club seem like two of the better deals to me.  I like Harbor Point's fixed weeks, too.


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## jme (Oct 11, 2012)

EKniager said:


> Well, I went through that scenario with my wife.  We didn't see any data that showed Harbour Point to rent for much above MF.  At "almost-free" it was interesting and would give us some added flexibility, albeit with another $1,000 January obligation.  You are right though.  I was there at 1 sec and stopped at $165.  When you mentally set a limit/value, it's best to stay disciplined regardless if it goes for $10 more.  Sounds silly but I think it is too easy to get caught up in the excitement of the auction.



First, if it doesn't rent for much more than MF, you still cover your expense, no?

I have noticed from watching these auctions for years that when a week (or anything on ebay) creeps along and barely reaches $175 at the one-minute mark, with 10 or more bidders, then the final price will likely not go too far beyond that price....and if a final whopper bid happens, it's still only maybe a $50-75 jump.  

sooooooo, my strategy would be, since it's already a cheap and pretty reasonable price, at the 12-second mark (assuming price still hasn't risen, and that I really, really wanted it), I would bid a max of $400 to assure my acquisition, but only expect a last-second rise to say, $200.....$250 at most, because the others wouldn't have time to respond and re-respond. So you win at that price 9 out of 10 times, never reaching your max....

And if anyone makes a huge, huge final bid ......well, he wins if he goes over $400. But if he only bids $395, you may actually have to pay your max.....still, to me, big deal.


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## larryallen (Oct 11, 2012)

As for snipes there are automatic snipes and manual snipes. Most of us have more important things to do than sit and wait for the last 5 seconds. Many auto snipe sites are free. Just google "free snipe sites."  Then you enter the max you want to bid and forget about it. 

In terms of whether someone should just pay $400 for something worth $175 I suppose that's something each person has to choose. I prefer to get a good "deal" regardless of what I am buying. Some people don't mind throwing away $200. Also, it's important to remember you are not buying an asset you are taking on a liability.


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## rsackett (Oct 11, 2012)

larryallen said:


> ...In terms of whether someone should just pay $400 for *something worth $175* I suppose that's something each person has to choose. I prefer to get a good "deal" regardless of what I am buying. Some people don't mind throwing away $200. Also, it's important to remember you are not buying an asset you are taking on a liability.



If that week is only worth $175 to you the you would be foolish to spend more.  However, if that week is more than that to you would be foolish to loose the week trying to save money every last dollar.  That is *BY FAR *the lowest I have seen a Platinum Marriott week go for!  

If it had been a week 31 or week 33 it would have been worth much more that $175 to me.

Ray


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## jme (Oct 11, 2012)

If somebody seriously wants to buy a timeshare week, I hardly think waiting/watching  for one particular auction to end is a situation which is to be described as "I have better things to do". Surely there's a big stake in it.  A $5 pair of socks, maybe not that important. I firmly believe a last minute manual snipe based on certain factors discerned during the totality of the  auction (if you study the bids, the times, and the players) is advantageous. 

 So I believe, to the contrary, that it's a pretty good reason to "be there".   Many times an auction takes on a certain trend, and to watch it develop before your eyes gives one a sense of what to do late....something which cannot be judged if they put in a maximum bid two days prior and then check out of town....   A t/s purchase should be much more important than that, if truly one is in the market.  

I agree that a t/s is not always an asset, UNLESS you acquire it at a good price, and have ALREADY committed to your family that you are going to spend that amount or more each year on time together in a place of that particular quality.  And I know a 2-BR condo in a great location is typically much more than the maintenance fee (at least where and when we stay), but that's an argument for another day. 

I believe a t/s week can indeed be an asset.  I cannot stay at Grande Ocean for 4 consecutive weeks in summer for under $1000 per week!!!!! That price is a HUGE asset to me and my family. We would be somewhere else spending far more......and exceedingly more if we rented there. 

An annual date (January 1) to pay that $1000 maintenance fee is certainly not a dreaded day for me....it's a reminder that a great family week is approaching. But if one simply begins to look at it as a large oppressive payment for nothing of value, that's a sad perspective. Timeshares only make sense if you're already committed to a week somewhere anyway. 

Initial cost figures in, of course, but after several years, it's a wash...would have spent that anyway.  Those who have sad stories to tell perhaps bought something in the wrong place for the wrong time for the wrong reasons. 

For us it's never been a liability, experientially or mathematically. No one forces us to take a yearly vacation-----it's a choice-----and the choices are to rent somewhere else or use a t/s week.....that much was established years prior.  So if a MF is far below renting a "similar" villa, then I would adamantly claim it must be an asset.  And it always assumes buying it at a good price initially.

I've been around Marriott t/s weeks for over a decade, and a platinum week at any of the resorts has far more value than $175.  You can do a lot with that week.  Times are tough, but $175 is almost laughable.  I can understand someone trying to get out for that if their circumstances have changed and they cannot afford even the MF , but really!


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## csxjohn (Oct 12, 2012)

swaits said:


> It's just a bid that is posted within the closing seconds of an auction. The theory is that it doesn't give others time to "emotionally" react with a higher bid.



Not a theory.  If you bid in the last 2 seconds or less, no one will have time to see your bid, decide they could really bid more, then execute the bid.



NKN said:


> But, if we were ALL sitting in front of our computers trying to get the winning bid in at the last second, aren't we ALL guilty of a snipe bid?



Nothing to feel guilty about.  Not against eBay rules or any unwritten rules of fair play.



jme said:


> Maybe it's just me, but what's the real difference between $175 and say, $400 when it comes to a platinum Marriott timeshare at Hilton Head???? Enter $400 as a max and you win, and apparently at $176. or have to pay $400....so, big deal.
> 
> Imagine what you could have done with that week... first year's rental and you make a profit, most likely covering the purchase price plus MF. far better than losing the auction and having nothing.
> 
> If I wanted a week there, that small difference would not even be relevant.



Maybe yes and maybe no.  No one except the eBay computers knows what the winning bidders max bid was.  We only see a bid high enough to beat the second highest bid.




jme said:


> First, if it doesn't rent for much more than MF, you still cover your expense, no?
> 
> I have noticed from watching these auctions for years that when a week (or anything on ebay) creeps along and barely reaches $175 at the one-minute mark, with 10 or more bidders, then the final price will likely not go too far beyond that price....and if a final whopper bid happens, it's still only maybe a $50-75 jump.
> 
> ...



12 seconds is too much time to let someone see your bid.  They have time to react and bid.  Even if they don't bid over your $400, you will be paying more because you gave someone time to place a higher bid than the highest one showing.


No emotion at all in my bidding.  I set a price I'm willing to pay, add a little  just for grins then submit the bid in the last couple of seconds.  eBay makes it easier now than it used to.  A window comes up showing you how much time is left.  Not too long ago I had to sit with an old sweep second hand clock and know exactly when the bid would end.


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## jme (Oct 12, 2012)

csxjohn said:


> 12 seconds is too much time to let someone see your bid.  They have time to react and bid.  Even if they don't bid over your $400, you will be paying more because you gave someone time to place a higher bid than the highest one showing.
> 
> 
> No emotion at all in my bidding.  I set a price I'm willing to pay, add a little  just for grins then submit the bid in the last couple of seconds.  eBay makes it easier now than it used to.  A window comes up showing you how much time is left.  Not too long ago I had to sit with an old sweep second hand clock and know exactly when the bid would end.



For that one particular auction where the final price was $177.50 (I looked it up in "completed auctions"---not exactly high in the Marriott timeshare world), there were only 6 players, and it went dreadfully slow. I understand why, so that made me even more confident about the trend i saw. In that case, i would not have been too worried about fast and furious bidding, seeing as how the players were mostly lowballers (not meant as a cut, only descriptive of what i would have perceived the crowd to be, which is relevant in any auction, and can be discerned).  They were not making anything but token, incremental, small raises...and i said i felt 12 secs would have been adequate.... (but only for that one specific auction).  I did not participate in that one...

In addition, sometimes the Ebay countdown clock seems to skip a few secs from time to time....not always exactly a smooth runoff......I was burned by that once at 3 secs when my bid never registered, so now i only use 4-5 secs as my final bid time. Need a slight buffer.  Still no time for responses and confirmations, only regular snipes which are coming anyway. 

My point was to say that my hypothetical max bid of $400 (previously mentioned) would have worked, winning at $180 and never reaching my max....but that same max would have insured a victory even if someone made an uncharacteristic bid there (at least for that auction). 

I have witnessed many auctions, and enjoy watching them often, and believe in trying to read the players....I currently have 650 auction wins (probably more because that ebay number only reflects #'s of feedback responses), and I think i've developed a fairly good system, based on each auction, players, item quality, etc., etc.  Like card reading, tendencies repeat and there's a lot to be gained from studying them. But of course, you never know for sure.....it's just a game.... but guessing does become easier.


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## EKniager (Oct 12, 2012)

jme said:


> First, if it doesn't rent for much more than MF, you still cover your expense, no?
> 
> I have noticed from watching these auctions for years that when a week (or anything on ebay) creeps along and barely reaches $175 at the one-minute mark, with 10 or more bidders, then the final price will likely not go too far beyond that price....and if a final whopper bid happens, it's still only maybe a $50-75 jump.
> 
> ...



As said, either in this thread or the one I started, this Harbour Point week wasn't all that important to us.  If we won, it might give us some flexibility, if not, no great loss.   "No closing fees" caught my eye.  In our mind, a <$150 buy was interesting.  Beyond that it began losing appeal.  I know, what's another $50-$100?  Well, you have got to draw an imaginary line somewhere and based on the immediate trumping, I'm guessing the bid ceiling was higher.

We already essentially have 3 weeks (counting the splitting of the lock-off in Aruba), not counting the typical AC offers.  And more importantly, my wife is pushing for some non-timeshare vacations.  

If I had more confidence in renting this for $1,500-$2,000, it would have been a no-brainer.  I came late to the auction and didn't have time to check beyond TUG and Redweek for rental data.  Harbor Point is not the typical Marriott and does not have the same demand as a beach front property.  I would guess that it is a decent II trader, our Week #21 appears to be, and it's hard to imagine there wouldn't be a rental market at $1,100 for August in HHI, but we only looked at it as an opportunistic purchase.  This is not a high ROI property like Aruba.

WRT Harbour Point, I believe there will be other opportunities.


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## Clark (Oct 12, 2012)

For what it's worth, if you are interested particularly in Hilton Head there are a number of HH resale listings on www.ownertrades.com

The ones listed by brokers tend to be priced more sensibly than the ones listed by owners ---


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## csxjohn (Oct 12, 2012)

jme said:


> ... They were not making anything but token, incremental, small raises...and i said i felt 12 secs would have been adequate.... (but only for that one specific auction).  I did not participate in that one...



I just looked at the auction and am reading the bids differently.

The winning bid was placed with 7 seconds to go and was that bidders only bid.  We have no way of knowing what the max bid was for that bidder.  The previous small bids and small increments mean nothing in the final outcome.

I'm not writing this to argue, everyone has their own method.

I have successfully bought 3 timeshares on eBay and I don't worry about trends of bidders or anything like that.  Just an unemotional bid at the end and what happens, happens.  I bid on one last week that I did not win.  It went for quite a few hundred dollars higher than my high bid so my last second bid didn't even show up because the bids were already higher by the time my bid was attempted.

I used esnipe that has been suggested by another Tugger and my account shows "bid too low."  If this same unit comes up tomorrow, I won't get it either if it goes that high.  I set limit and stick too it.


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## Clark (Oct 12, 2012)

Well I have never bid on an ebay timeshare, but when I do bid on something, I just put in a bid that is the maximum I am willing to pay.

Then I dont worry about sniping. If I lose, it is because it went for more than I was willing to pay. And if no one else was willing to bid up to what I was willing to pay, I will get it for less.

I just don't "get" sniping :=(


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## csxjohn (Oct 12, 2012)

Clark said:


> Well I have never bid on an ebay timeshare, but when I do bid on something, I just put in a bid that is the maximum I am willing to pay.
> 
> Then I dont worry about sniping. If I lose, it is because it went for more than I was willing to pay. And if no one else was willing to bid up to what I was willing to pay, I will get it for less.
> 
> I just don't "get" sniping :=(




Not everyone bids the way you do.  If they did there would be no reason to snipe.  When I go to place a bid on eBay the text says to place my maximum bid.  Very few do this.  Most place a low bid to see if anyone else is bidding.  Emotion comes into when someone sees a bid just a little higher than what they thought they were willing to pay and decide they can afford a little more.

By bidding very late in the auction you are not tipping your hand and letting others see what you are willing to pay.  Like a military sniper not revealing his position before he attempts to pick off his target.

I have done it your way when I don't care if I really want an item or not.  If I really want something I don't place an early bid and I don't post about it here or anywhere.  Just my personal preference as to trying to win something I want.


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## FlyerBobcat (Oct 12, 2012)

csxjohn said:


> Not everyone bids the way you do.  If they did there would be no reason to snipe.  When I go to place a bid on eBay the text says to place my maximum bid.  Very few do this.  Most place a low bid to see if anyone else is bidding.  Emotion comes into when someone sees a bid just a little higher than what they thought they were willing to pay and decide they can afford a little more.
> 
> By bidding very late in the auction you are not tipping your hand and letting others see what you are willing to pay.  Like a military sniper not revealing his position before he attempts to pick off his target.
> 
> I have done it your way when I don't care if I really want an item or not.  If I really want something I don't place an early bid and I don't post about it here or anywhere.  Just my personal preference as to trying to win something I want.


+1    Bingo!


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## jont (Oct 12, 2012)

FlyerBobcat said:


> +1    Bingo!



+2...............


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## EKniager (Oct 17, 2012)

Week #33 on ebay, same seller


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## rsackett (Oct 18, 2012)

EKniager said:


> Week #33 on ebay, same seller


It went for $611.  

http://www.ebay.com/itm/180988833319?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649

Ray


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## FractionalTraveler (Oct 18, 2012)

Please post back if this passes ROFR.....


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## rsackett (Oct 18, 2012)

FractionalTraveler said:


> Please post back if this passes ROFR.....



I did not end up buying it.  After talking to my better half we decided we were not in a position to own another timeshare at this time.  Sure was hard not to jump in the bidding though.  The winning bid was placed within 4 seconds of the auction ending.

Whoever did owns it.  There is no ROFR at Harbour Point.

Ray


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## FractionalTraveler (Oct 18, 2012)

rsackett said:


> I did not end up buying it.  After talking to my better half we decided we were not in a position to own another timeshare at this time.  Sure was hard not to jump in the bidding though.  The winning bid was placed within 4 seconds of the auction ending.
> 
> Whoever did owns it.  There is no ROFR at Harbour Point.
> 
> Ray



Thanks for the clarification.  Sounds like a good sale.

FT


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## MOXJO7282 (Oct 18, 2012)

I was interested up to $400 and then let it go.


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## EKniager (Oct 18, 2012)

My buddy took it to $410. We're @ Harbor Club and took a ride over to Harbor Point to check out the room location. It's @ the end of the building; very nice!

Went over to Barony too. He might consider a Gold week there.


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## ConejoRed (Oct 18, 2012)

I had limit of $601 set... was looking for something on the east coast and liked the idea of a fixed week so none of this calling at 6:00 am (I am on the west coast) to reserve, but someone must have had their limit a bit higher....


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## rsackett (Oct 18, 2012)

It is a nice location.  It is on the opposite end of the building and a mirror layout to the one I own. The end units have an extra window next to the dining area. the third floor would have a nice view of the harbor. That building is getting a major update this year.

i think the seller did himself an injustice by not selling the the two units at the same time.  I think back-to-back weeks in the same unit would have brought a premium in price.  He could have allowed the winning bidder to take either one or both weeks.

Ray


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## EKniager (Oct 18, 2012)

Anyone have a feel for rental values for Harbour Point? Redweek has such a low volume that it is difficult to gauge. My sense is that it is only slightly more than MF. I like it a lot there but appreciate that many others prefer a beachfront location. Is there a better site to research rentals for this resort?


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## EKniager (Oct 28, 2012)

Wow!  Week #21 slipped thru this morning with no bids.  A buddy of mine was going to try and buy it but he thought it ended at 5 p.m. and LOL, it was 5 a.m PDT!  That may be a costly mistake (for him).


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## csxjohn (Oct 28, 2012)

EKniager said:


> Wow!  Week #21 slipped thru this morning with no bids.  A buddy of mine was going to try and buy it but he thought it ended at 5 p.m. and LOL, it was 5 a.m PDT!  That may be a costly mistake (for him).



Just have him contact the seller and offer the dollar plus what ever else the auction said they wanted.  I believe they will be glad to complete the sale.  Just make sure it's done within eBay rules so nothing shady is being done.

Another good reason to use a service like esnipe!


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## swaits (Oct 29, 2012)

csxjohn said:


> Just have him contact the seller and offer the dollar plus what ever else the auction said they wanted.  I believe they will be glad to complete the sale.  Just make sure it's done within eBay rules so nothing shady is being done.
> 
> Another good reason to use a service like esnipe!



Or, use the official eBay app on iOS. It will send you push notifications on watched auctions that are ending soon.

Also, GarageBuy is a great app, available on iOS and Mac OS X.

Besides those, eBay can be set to email you when watched auctions are ending.


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## Breezy52 (Sep 12, 2022)

larryallen said:


> As for snipes there are automatic snipes and manual snipes. Most of us have more important things to do than sit and wait for the last 5 seconds. Many auto snipe sites are free. Just google "free snipe sites."  Then you enter the max you want to bid and forget about it.
> 
> In terms of whether someone should just pay $400 for something worth $175 I suppose that's something each person has to choose. I prefer to get a good "deal" regardless of what I am buying. Some people don't mind throwing away $200. Also, it's important to remember you are not buying an asset you are taking on a liability.


Last sentence is gold


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## csxjohn (Sep 21, 2022)

Someone recently reacted to one of my posts here so I read through it.

I no longer sit at my computer to snipe bid, I use a service to do it for me.  Esnipe.com, I give them my high bid and tell them when to bid it, I chose 2 seconds.  The fee is very low and I only pay if I win.  Their computes place the bid for me so I don't have to sit by the computer for any auctions now.


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