# I got nabbed - Speeding Ticket



## Steamboat Bill (Jun 26, 2008)

I received my first speeding ticket yesterday in probably 10 years.

The "cop" jumped out from behind a large tree with a laser gun and I was busted.  

The amazing thing was that he said, "I need to see your drivers license and everything said is being recorded" thus I said nothing. I was shocked that he went to his motorcycle and then came back in about 60 seconds and I thought I was going to be let off with a warning as I am a certified "safe driver" as displayed on my license.  

Nope...they have computer systems like rental car agencies that print a "nice" paper receipt of a ticket. How impressive...no more garbled hard to read hand writing.

I was pulled over, ticketed and left all in less than 5 minutes...I can't even fill my car with gas that fast. I was quite impressed at this efficient technology.

No big deal, I will hand over this to my buddy at the Ticket Clinic FIGHT this ticket so I don't get any points on my license and won't have to pay the $188.50 fine. 

Am I guilty??? perhaps, but that side road should really be a 45mph, not 30pmh speed limit and I want to preserve my "safe driver" designation.


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## Eric in McLean (Jun 26, 2008)

How do you fight a ticket?


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## Steamboat Bill (Jun 26, 2008)

Eric in McLean said:


> How do you fight a ticket?



No points, no school, no court, money back guarantee.

http://www.theticketclinic.com/

Ahhhh...the US has a great legal system, eh?


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## DG001 (Jun 26, 2008)

*Me too!*

I got caught a few weeks ago too...  

For the DIY-types out there ...

http://www.motorists.org/
(find your state chapter)


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## IngridN (Jun 26, 2008)

I know I'll be blasted for this...but...whatever happened to taking responsibility for your actions.  

Ingrid


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## Dave M (Jun 26, 2008)

I was thinking the same thing.


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## laura1957 (Jun 26, 2008)

IngridN said:


> I know I'll be blasted for this...but...whatever happened to taking responsibility for your actions.
> 
> Ingrid




I definately agree - why would we WANT anyone speeding to be able to get off that easy??   There should be consequences for breaking the law.


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## TUGBrian (Jun 26, 2008)

pretty common in florida.

you have the option to "take the class" up to 6 times in your life....you still pay a part of the fine...and obviously have to sit through the driving improvement class.  although now the classes are available online.

another option is to go before a judge and plead no contest...you get no points (usually) and pay a lesser fine.

this strategy also obviously only works if you have a clean driving record.


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## Dave M (Jun 26, 2008)

It's common in some other states, too. 

But that's not the direction Bill is headed. He states that he plans to fight it. Given his statements, that's what raises the question.


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## TUGBrian (Jun 26, 2008)

I think perhaps he means the 2nd option I mentioned....vs actually pleading not guilty.  you basically go before a judge and say the cop is lying and you werent actually speeding.  that rarely if ever works...and usually results in a much higher fine.  plus requires two separate trips before the judge...first to plead not guilty...then he sets a court date for you and the officer to appear a few months down the road.


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## Dave M (Jun 26, 2008)

Maybe. 

But "go before a judge and plead no contest" and "FIGHT this ticket" (with a link to the law firm) seem worlds apart.


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## Kona Lovers (Jun 26, 2008)

Steamboat Bill said:


> ... but that side road should really be a 45mph, not 30pmh speed limit...



May be. But wouldn't the way to get that changed would be to bring it to the attention of the transportation department of that jurisdiction?  

Marty


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## Kay H (Jun 26, 2008)

I guess having "safe driver" displayed on your license plate is more important than actually being a safe driver.  *edited - please refer to be courteous rule*


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## Beaglemom3 (Jun 26, 2008)

....... and dragging a police officer into court is just a huge and needless waste of his time, the court's time and the taxpayer's money.


  I don't understand the "fighting" it part. Isn't that lying ? Perjury - as you will be sworn in. 

Whatever happened to _owning up_ ?  Did I miss something ?


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## gmarine (Jun 26, 2008)

Steamboat Bill said:


> I received my first speeding ticket yesterday in probably 10 years.
> 
> The "cop" jumped out from behind a large tree with a laser gun and I was busted.
> 
> ...



Perhaps?? LOL, of course your guilty. You can try pleading not guilty because you dont agree with the posted speed limit but I doubt it will work.


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## Steamboat Bill (Jun 26, 2008)

IngridN said:


> I know I'll be blasted for this...but...whatever happened to taking responsibility for your actions.
> 
> Ingrid



I am taking responsibility by hiring an attorney and trying to squash this. This is my American right.

Perhaps the radar equipment is faulty, perhaps the cop pointed the radar at a different vehicle, perhaps there was a fast flying bird nearby, perhaps some construction equipment was emitting electronic signals...etc.

Was I speeding...perhaps, but that doesn't mean I want points on my record (higher insurance rates?), a black mark on my perfect driving record, and the loss of my "safe driver" designation.

What I am doing is 100% legal and I am NOT abusing the system.



Kay H said:


> I guess having "safe driver" displayed on your license plate is more important than actually being a safe driver.  *edited - please refer to be courteous rule*



What implies that I am not a safe driver? So what I was "accused" of driving 45 in a 30 zone. I have never been in an accident in 30 years of driving. In fact, I have taken professional Skip Barber driving classes and have great driving skills.



Beaglemom3 said:


> ....... and dragging a police officer into court is just a huge and needless waste of his time, the court's time and the taxpayer's money.
> 
> I don't understand the "fighting" it part. Isn't that lying ? Perjury - as you will be sworn in.
> 
> Whatever happened to _owning up_ ?  Did I miss something ?



I do NOT plan on attending court, that is my attorney's job.

It is not a HUGE wast of time...this is his job. As far as taxpayer money...trust me...I pay HUGE taxes and this is chump change as compared to what I pay Uncle Sam.

Perhaps "fighting" is a poor choice of words...I will "challenge" the ticket.

Here is a quote from the website:
"In a lot of situations, the issue is not guilt or innocence," said Traffic Judge Harvey Baxter. "The citizens are availing themselves of every right they have."

"Everybody's entitled to counsel," said patrol Lt. Noel Roy. "If you lose a ticket it's just one of those things.


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## mshatty (Jun 26, 2008)

Beaglemom3 said:


> ....... and dragging a police officer into court is just a huge and needless waste of his time, the court's time and the taxpayer's money.
> 
> 
> I don't understand the "fighting" it part. Isn't that lying ? Perjury - as you will be sworn in.
> ...



I don't think Steamboat Bill has to testify.  It is the City/state/county's burden to prove the charge by more than a reasonable doubt.


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## catwgirl (Jun 26, 2008)

Best to stay in Florida Bill.  It's not so easy to get off here in California.  The fines are high and will probably be going higher given our fiscal woes.

:annoyed:


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## Steamboat Bill (Jun 26, 2008)

laura1957 said:


> I definately agree - why would we WANT anyone speeding to be able to get off that easy??   There should be consequences for breaking the law.



Do me a favor...drive I-95 or whatever major highway system is near your house. Now drive at exactly 55mph or the posted speed limit. I will guarantee that 90% of the cars will zoom past you and probably honk their horn at you for driving so slow.

Have you ever driven 56mph in a 55mph zone...then you are guilty and broke the law.

If you were ticketed for every time you broke the law speeding, 99.9% of drivers would eventually have suspended licenses.

I am not trying to justify my actions, I am just trying NOT to get points on my record and lose my "safe driver" designation as this will increase my insurance.

If I could pay $250 or even $500 and there would be no points....I would have given the officer my credit card on the spot.

The moral of the story is - do you want to be a sucker and take whatever dog poop you step into or do you want to do something about it....remember we have a justice system that allows (and possibly encourages) me to try to challenge this ticket.


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## Beaglemom3 (Jun 26, 2008)

mshatty said:


> I don't think Steamboat Bill has to testify.  It is the City/state/county's burden to prove the charge by more than a reasonable doubt.




  The waste of "his" time refers to the _officer_ and the _officer's_ time. Not SBB.
   B.


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## Wonka (Jun 26, 2008)

Manatee County here in FL is installing cameras at intersections to catch those going through red lights...or is that yellow turning red, and people will be mailed $150 citations.  The news releases said the equipment mfg gets 50% and the County 50% of the revenues, but the system isn't a "money maker", huh?

I don't have a problem with someone using a service to avoid points on a ticket.  He'll probably pay almost as much as the fine for the service.  Frankly, I don't support speed traps, or entrapment where an officer is hiding behind a tree.  Haven't you noticed how driver's slow down when seeing a police vehicle on the side of the road, or aside of them?  I think that's a better use of cruiser time, and avoids more accidents than traps.  They are just used for revenue.


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## Steamboat Bill (Jun 26, 2008)

TUGBrian said:


> you have the option to "take the class" up to 6 times in your life....you still pay a part of the fine...and obviously have to sit through the driving improvement class.  although now the classes are available online.



They even rent the video in local Blockbuster Video stores here or at the library.

I would rather pay a higher fine or hire an attorney than attend some 4 hour class or watch a video or log into a website.

Heck, I don't even like attending the 90 minute timeshare presentation to get a free gift...just give me a quick tour of the place and show me your prices (keep the gift and hard sell)....just like last week when I was in Maui...very efficient.


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## TUGBrian (Jun 26, 2008)

then perhaps "not speeding" would be a wise course of action if the alternatives for getting caught arent high on your list of things to do =)

I certainly speed...but when caught doing it (although its been awahile) I own up to it and pay the fine.  one ticket every few years isnt going to increae your insurance rates.

While I agree there are situations where you dont feel you were speeding...and still got a ticket...and of course I would argue that in court.

However given the description you typed above...I think we all realize (you included) that you were infact speeding and you were in fact caught.

That seems to be the reason many people are viewing this in such a negative light.


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## lawren2 (Jun 26, 2008)

Steamboat Bill said:


> *Was I speeding...perhaps, but that doesn't mean I want points on my record (higher insurance rates?), a black mark on my perfect driving record, and the loss of my "safe driver" designation.*



There is a very simple way to keep your record clean, not have increased insurance rates and maintain your "safe driver" designation and that is DON'T SPEED.

It is a pretty well known fact that most law enforcement will let you get away with up to 10mph above posted limits but you were going in excess of this on local streets. 






ETA Unfortunately the table image didn't come across but my point is that at 30mph it takes 75 feet to come to a complete halt. At 40mph it's 120ft and at 50mph it's 175ft. Skip Barber course or not if a young child chased a ball into the street your chances of hitting him doubled at the speed you were driving at.


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## mshatty (Jun 26, 2008)

mshatty said:


> I don't think Steamboat Bill has to testify.  It is the City/state/county's burden to prove the charge by more than a reasonable doubt.





Beaglemom3 said:


> The waste of "his" time refers to the _officer_ and the _officer's_ time. Not SBB.
> B.



I agree that any criminal court proceeding is an expensive and time consuming process for the officer as well as the accused.  Thankfully, most criminal proceedings are pled out or disposed of before trial.

My previous post was really addressing the issue of SBB "lying" and perhaps committing perjury.  I don't think SBB gave any indication that is what he would do.  I was just pointing out that if there was a trial, SBB would not have to testify if he didn't want to do so.


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## Beaglemom3 (Jun 26, 2008)

mshatty said:


> I agree that any criminal court proceeding is an expensive and time consuming process for the officer as well as the accused.  Thankfully, most criminal proceedings are pled out or disposed of before trial.
> 
> My previous post was really addressing the issue of SBB "lying" and perhaps committing perjury.  I don't think SBB gave any indication that is what he would do.  I was just pointing out that if there was a trial, SBB would not have to testify if he didn't want to do so.



Isn't his testimony/statement entered onto the record ? This is how it's done in Massachusetts, but not sure of Florida.


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## mshatty (Jun 26, 2008)

Beaglemom3 said:


> Isn't his testimony/statement entered onto the record ? This is how it's done in Massachusetts, but not sure of Florida.



Don't know.  Here in archaic Texas, we have a judge, jury and live testimony trial on speeding tickets if the accused wants one.  Darn that Constitution! :ignore:


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## Beaglemom3 (Jun 26, 2008)

Mike............ here's the process. We do not have trial by written declaration in Mass. and not in many other states, either.

Is it a wonder that I chose Biomedical/Pharmaceutical Law as my area of concentration ? LOL.

  2) Florida

In Florida, in order to bypass a court appearance you must file an “Affidavit of Defense”. Here is an excerpt from the Florida Rules of Traffic Court:



RULE 6.340. AFFIDAVIT OF DEFENSE OR ADMISSION AND WAIVER OF APPEARANCE



(a) Appearance in Court. Any defendant charged with an infraction may, in lieu of a personal appearance at trial, file an affidavit of defense or an admission that the infraction was committed as provided in this rule.



(b) Posting of Bond. The trial court may require a bond to be posted before the court will accept an affidavit in lieu of appearance at trial. The defendant shall be given reasonable notice if required to post a bond.



(c) Attorney Representation. If a defendant is represented by an attorney in an infraction case, said attorney may represent the defendant in the absence of the defendant at a hearing or trial without the defendant being required to file an affidavit of defense. The attorney shall file a written notice of appearance. The attorney may enter any plea, proceed to trial, present evidence other than the defendant’s statements, and examine and cross examine witnesses without the defendant being required to file an affidavit of defense. *Nonetheless, a defendant represented by an attorney may file an affidavit of defense. If a represented defendant files such an affidavit, the affidavit must be signed and properly notarized, subjecting the affiant to perjury prosecution for false statements.*

May be more difficult to defend w/o the affidavit ? Yes/No ?


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## Steamboat Bill (Jun 26, 2008)

TUGBrian said:


> However given the description you typed above...I think we all realize (you included) that you were infact speeding and you were in fact caught.



My attorney has advise me to take the 5th on that one.... 



lawren2 said:


> There is a very simple way to keep your record clean, not have increased insurance rates and maintain your "safe driver" designation and that is to DON'T SPEED.
> 
> ETA Unfortunately the table image didn't come across but my point is that at 30mph it takes 75 feet to come to a complete halt. At 40mph it's 120ft and at 50mph it's 175ft. Skip Barber course or not if a young child chased a ball into the street your chances of hitting him doubled at the speed you were driving at.



Thanks for the "obvious" advice and the physics lesson, but I guarantee that I am a significantly much safer driver (speeding or not) as compared to the average drivers here in Florida...have you ever visited here?

The old people here are a real problem as their vision is poor and they refuse to give up their license even thought they are legally blind. What about teenage drivers...they are even worse. What about all the people here without valid licenses (I can't mention any stereotypical subgroup here or I will be accused of racism) that break the law just by driving (even if they stay under the speed limit).

A good friend of mine was killed by a drunk driver last year and that driver was not speeding and coming home from a party and not injured....(I have never posted that before) so I fail to see any correlation to my driving at a "safe rate and NOT impaired" vs some speed limit number on a sign located in an obscure area. The street was a side street near office buildings...no school nearby.



Beaglemom3 said:


> Isn't his testimony/statement entered onto the record ? This is how it's done in Massachusetts, but not sure of Florida.



No need to testify in Florida....just hire a good attorney and keep speeding...oops, I mean safe driving.


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## mshatty (Jun 26, 2008)

Beaglemom3 said:


> Mike............ here's the process. We do not have trial by written declaration in Mass.
> 2) Florida
> 
> In Florida, in order to bypass a court appearance you must file an “Affidavit of Defense”. Here is an excerpt from the Florida Rules of Traffic Court:
> ...




Don't know that I would want a trial without being there??!!  Just to be clear, never ever ever ever submit an affidavit that is not true!


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## UWSurfer (Jun 26, 2008)

I must admit I have very mixed feelings about all that's been discussed.

Here in SoCal, the rules are such that the officer is to be in plain view when doing speed enforcement, usually utilizing radar or laser.   In most cases I notice now a motorcycle officer sitting in the open on the side of the road or in the shade of a tree working his radar or laser gun.   So long as they aren't hiding behind an object I think it's fair. 

When we lived in Pasadena, CA 20 years ago, the city married radar units with cameras and took pictures of speeders from the back of a fairly non-descript mini-van.   While in the open, the police usually parked it around curves & or near the end of the day where the sun facing drivers would obscure the driver from seeing it.   At the time I thought it was great...then the tickets would come in from my wife's driving and I was less than thrilled.  She did traffic school for the first one which prevented the issuance of points.  Then she got a second one.   Fortunately for her, before she had to go to court on ticket #2, someone successfully challenged the issuance of the ticket because the unit was not properly marked for traffic enforcment.  The city had to drop the outstanding tickets that had been issued (including my wife's #2) and repainted the unit black and white.   After several more years of operation, I belive they discontinued that form of enforcement.

Now the city I live in has several red light camera stationed at highly traveled intersections.   As a result the number of accidents have dropped dramatically at these intersections and those of us who know where they are approach these interections with additional caution so as not unintentionally trigger the camera.   In some cases if we even think the light is about to change we'll prepare to stop.

With gas prices as high as they are, the most common advice I hear over and over again is to obey the speed limit.  I've slowed down accordingly and notice folks passing me all over the place here.  If you drive the freeways here when traffic isn't stopped, it's very common for folks to drive 70, 80 & 90 mph on the freeways.  I don't notice this high rate of speeding when I travel to other states, largely due to stricter enforcement.

Everyone charged with a crime & offense is entitled to mount a defense should they choose and I respect Bill's right to do so.  I'm generally in favor of enforcement, but find my perspective changes when I have to cough up money when I or immediate family get caught.


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## Steamboat Bill (Jun 26, 2008)

UWSurfer said:


> Everyone charged with a crime & offense is entitled to mount a defense should they choose and I respect Bill's right to do so.



Thanks.

Here are some more details.

I have traveled down the road where I was nabbed hundreds of times (perhaps a thousand) and I have NEVER seen a police officer in that area writing tickets. 

Here are the ticket prices (mph over the speed limit):
6-8 mph = $88.50
10-14 mph = $163.50
15-19 mph = $188.50....that's the one I got!
20-29 mph = $213.50
over 30 mph = $313.50

The officer could have cut me a break and written 14 mph instead of 15. But then again, I "may" have been traveling faster than 15mph...who can trust speedometers these days???

Funny thing is the Ticket Clinic only costs $89.50 and I paid their fee on my corporate credit card (getting frequent flyer miles) as I was traveling on "official corporate business". Thus, my real cost is probably only $53.70 (assume 40% taxes).

Thus, challenging this ticket only costs me $53.70 (vs paying $188.50) and I get 89 frequent flyer miles bonus, no points on my license, and keep my safe driver title.

Great system we have, eh?


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## bobcat (Jun 26, 2008)

Steamboat Bill said:


> Thanks.
> 
> Here are some more details.
> 
> ...



Bill, I think you should have not posted this ticket. You opened a can of worms. Some things are better kepted to ourselves. I mean nothing bad by this post. Bobcat


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## wackymother (Jun 26, 2008)

I agree with Bobcat. 

I live on a street with a posted limit of 25 mph. Many drivers "think" that it should be more like 40 mph. Well, it's not, because there are a lot of pedestrians, children, older people, and pets on this street, and a higher limit would be dangerous. 

When you say that you were going 50 percent over the posted limit of 30 mph, but that's okay, because the limit SHOULD BE 45--guess what? You, a guy driving there once a week or once a day or once ever, think the limit should be 45. The people who live on that street probably think differently.

Why are you even posting about your speeding ticket, the speeding ticket that you are going to have your lawyer fight as a corporate expense? Why? Because you want to start an argument. 

Is everyone familiar with the expression "don't feed the troll"? Bill enjoys conflict. Stop posting to his threads.


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## Steamboat Bill (Jun 26, 2008)

bobcat said:


> Bill, I think you should have not posted this ticket. You opened a can of worms. Some things are better kepted to ourselves. I mean nothing bad by this post. Bobcat



no offense taken.

I really love bbs forums and it gives a true slice of a variety of cultures. I enjoy learning things like trading a cheap TS for a fantastic one (even though I can easily pay to rent the more expensive one). I enjoy learning on how to travel first class for cheap. I enjoy finding an obscure website, book, or movie.

Some people like fishing, some people like poker, some people like reading books, some people like watching tv, and some people like interacting with complete strangers on the Internet.

When I post these "personal" events like this ticket, the window cleaning incident, my property tax bill, getting naked in Maui, or my frustration of several of my friends buying Bentleys, they are 100% true and represent reality to me. I am NOT embarrassed by these things. Hopefully some of you will find enjoyment in reading these things or even learn something new yourself...heck, just this thread can save a TUGer a ton of money.

In fact, when I was in Maui last week (in a $2.6m home), I decided to throw a party and invite any STRANGER from TUG to visit. I had a few people stop by for steaks and drinks and we all had a blast. In fact, it was a MUCH more enjoyable evening that if my wife and I were alone with our two kids. I even bumped into one of my party guests in the airport and HELPED him get $3,500 in FREE airline credit and a free stay at the Grand Wailea hotel for the night.



wackymother said:


> Is everyone familiar with the expression "don't feed the troll"? Bill enjoys conflict. Stop posting to his threads.



Wow...now I know why your screen name is "wacky"......if you feel this way, why did you post here?

-------------------------------------

Now back to the original post and how I am going to beat this ticket!!!

.


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## BILL_B (Jun 26, 2008)

And to top it all off the police officer was earning way less than the window washer


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## lawren2 (Jun 26, 2008)

BILL_B said:


> And to top it all off the police officer was earning way less than the window washer



Perfect!  :rofl: :hysterical:


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## barndweller (Jun 26, 2008)

> And to top it all off the police officer was earning way less than the window washer



Great response! You said what we all were thinking!:rofl:


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## Beaglemom3 (Jun 26, 2008)

I am going to monitor the outcome of this case on the Florida courts' website.



The search for truth implies a duty. One must not conceal any part of what one has recognized to be true. --Albert Einstein


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## Beaglemom3 (Jun 26, 2008)

In reviewing the posts, I am confused with these two conflicting ones:

"I received my first speeding ticket yesterday in probably 10 years."

v.

 "a black mark on my *perfect* driving record, and the loss of my "safe driver" designation."



Just because it's 100% legal it doesn't mean you aren't abusing the system.


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## AwayWeGo (Jun 26, 2008)

*I Hate When That Happens.*

I used to be an excellent driver. 

Now I am a so-so driver. 

I try to pay attention to the speed limits & traffic signs & follow the rules. 

Even so, I goof up now & then.  Nobody's perfect. 

As of today my car is up on blocks with a bad transmission. 

Won't get any speeding tickets that way. 

So it goes. 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


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## barndweller (Jun 26, 2008)

So you post to give us the benefit of your wisdom or to spark interesting debate? Then why do you feel a constant NEED to make references in your "personal" posts such as:


> In fact, when I was in Maui last week (in a $2.6m home),



and


> I pay HUGE taxes and this is chump change as compared to what I pay Uncle Sam.


 and many more examples in all your other posts.

What possible help or interest is it to anyone else how much money you have (or wish you had, whichever the case may be?) You could be illegal immigrant washing windows for cash under the table for all I know. Why do you keep making references to your supposed wealth?


Maybe if you left those out of your posts more folks would believe what you say. I, for one, have major doubts how much of what you say can be believed.JMHO


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## Charlie D. (Jun 26, 2008)

Congratulations on your ability to throw big parties.  Congratulations that your corporation is in the 40% tax bracket.  I’ve seen several of your posts and generally enjoy them.  I think this trying to “beat the ticket” thread is probably a little more boasting.  I look forward to more of it in the future.

Charlie D.


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## Beaglemom3 (Jun 26, 2008)

"Huge taxes............."

Good point. You know, I, too (and many others) pay HUGE taxes but it does not give us (or anyone else) the right to squander the taxpayer's money on foolishess, pure foolishness.

Mounting a defense if you're _innocent_ is one thing..... this ain't it. 

You got caught, you've alluded to it. Own it.


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## ArtsieAng (Jun 26, 2008)

> Steamboat Bill
> 
> No need to testify in Florida....just hire a good attorney and keep speeding...oops, I mean safe driving.



Speeding is no joking matter, in Florida, or any where else. Being flippant about it is even worse. Bragging about (sounds like bragging to me) how you're going to get your attorney to get you off, so that you can go and do it again, is just juvenile.


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## BocaBum99 (Jun 26, 2008)

Steamboat Bill said:


> no offense taken.
> 
> I really love bbs forums and it gives a true slice of a variety of cultures. I enjoy learning things like trading a cheap TS for a fantastic one (even though I can easily pay to rent the more expensive one). I enjoy learning on how to travel first class for cheap. I enjoy finding an obscure website, book, or movie.
> 
> ...



I am really hoping this entire thread is just a really bad joke.  You can't possibly be serious.


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## laura1957 (Jun 26, 2008)

BocaBum99 said:


> I am really hoping this entire thread is just a really bad joke.  You can't possibly be serious.



Unfortunately - I think he is!!


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## 3kids4me (Jun 26, 2008)

BocaBum99 said:


> I am really hoping this entire thread is just a really bad joke.  You can't possibly be serious.



Based on my recollection of when Bill was banned from Disboards, I imagine that most of what he posts is not true.  Everyone is entitled to post whatever they want if it is within BBS rules, but frankly, I would prefer that if someone posts stories, that they be enjoyable to read instead of egocentric/racially charged/gender biased/ethically questionable or anything else that is likely to cause upset rather than entertainment.


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## rschallig (Jun 26, 2008)

*California experience*

The simplest way to "fight" a ticket may be to just show and be prepared to plead "guilty with an explanation". If the officer who wrote the ticket or the officer that used the laser gun doesn't show, the judge will probably dismiss before you are called to plead. It is not that unusual for officers not to show. If the officers do show, you can make your explanation to the judge and hope for the best. Judges tend to listen more closely if your driving record is excellent and you presented yourself in a courteous and calm manner. If you are found guilty and have a good driver record, the judge has the authority to reduce the fine and allow for “traffic school” attendance to preserve your driving record status and avoid increased auto insurance rates. Don’t go crazy with creative excuses. It tends to tick the court off.
Bob


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## Kona Lovers (Jun 26, 2008)

Regarding stoplight cameras:  they put a bunch in here to cut down on red light runners, and the result has been a marked increase of rear-end collisions because of fear of being photographed.

Marty


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## Joe L (Jun 26, 2008)

Bill one thing you must understand is that the radar gun is just for show. The cops who are trained in radar are also trained and certified on knowing the speed of a car within 1 mile an hour. It's that certification that maters, not the radar gun. 

That said, yes we all speed. But when you get caught you just own up to it like a man and not look for some out with a lawyer. Pay the fine and insurance penalty and get on with it already.


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## KauaiMark (Jun 26, 2008)

*Yep...*



catwgirl said:


> Best to stay in Florida Bill.  It's not so easy to get off here in California.  The fines are high and will probably be going higher given our fiscal woes.



Here in Calif, school only gets the points off the record. You still pay the full fine AND extra for the school.

The fine is $215 for doing 51mph in a 40mph only because I have to wind up the Ole' 94 Saturn to make it to the top. 

They had the trap just around the corner at the bottom of the uphill grade.


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## stevedmatt (Jun 26, 2008)

I have no problem with the original post or Bill trying to 'beat' this ticket. Is he taking advantage of a screwed up system of our government? Yes. Is it his right to do so? Yes. 

We all can have our day in court when being accused of breaking the law. That's his right.

If I have a problem with anything about this thread, it's that this particular OP is a moderator and should represent TUG more appropriately. When you try to generate a response about a topic and you don't agree with someone's response, there is no reason to make rude comments. 



Steamboat Bill said:


> Wow...now I know why your screen name is "wacky"



And while his response does make sense, I also feel it is inappropriate.


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## laura1957 (Jun 26, 2008)

Joe L said:


> Bill one thing you must understand is that the radar gun is just for show. The cops who are trained in radar are also trained and certified on knowing the speed of a car within 1 mile an hour. It's that certification that maters, not the radar gun.
> 
> That said, yes we all speed. But when you get caught you just own up to it like a man and not look for some out with a lawyer. Pay the fine and insurance penalty and get on with it already.



Yes, everyone does speed at some point - personally, I try not to.  I do glance at my speedometer and realize I have crept up a mile or two above the limit, and then adjust accordingly.  Hopefully most of us do NOT go in excess of 15 mph over the posted speed limit.  I think that is excessive, and certainly not "safe".  Generally the posted limit is what it is for a reason.


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## Pit (Jun 26, 2008)

Beaglemom3 said:


> You know, I, too (and many others) pay HUGE taxes but it does not give us (or anyone else) the right to squander the taxpayer's money on foolishess, pure foolishness.



Absolutely. That right is reserved for our elected officials.


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## Beaglemom3 (Jun 26, 2008)

Pit said:


> Absolutely. That right is reserved for our elected officials.



...and all their other certain & select fellow citizens who feel that the law does not pertain to them.


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## Pat H (Jun 26, 2008)

So, Bill, you've posted in a public forum that you KNEW you were speeding at LEAST 15 MPH over the posted speed limit. Isn't that rather a stupid thing to do? A lot of people here don't like you and I'm sure some know your full name. What's to stop someone from forwarding this post to the court? You'd be dead meat then. 

BTW, I'm the first to admit that I have a very heavy foot. I drive a Dodge Charger with a hemi so doesn't that mean I HAVE to drive fast?


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## McKShr6 (Jun 26, 2008)

I must be too trusting but until tonight I had assumed that what was posted on TUG , especially by a Moderator and TUG lifetime member was the truth.  I do agree if Steamboat Bill is going to be a Moderator he should represent TUG more appropriately and he shouldn't have been rude to Wackymother. If you are going to try to beat a speeding ticket ( after admitting that you really were speeding)  it's pretty stupid to post it on the internet.


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## Icarus (Jun 26, 2008)

There's nothing wrong with contesting a traffic ticket.

I contested two tickets I got in California by mail, using the process as described by the state legislature. I posted about it here in the TUG lounge. One was dismissed and I paid the fine on the other one.

California, specifically, has a rule about speed limits that require traffic surveys for a speed limit to be considered legal. If the speed limit is 25 on a road and the average speed on that road is 35 or 40, the 25 MPH speed limit is not legal on that road. Radar and other speed measuring devices have to be calibrated and tested properly in order to ensure their accuracy. If they can't produce the records to prove that they have been properly calibrated and tested, you can have the ticket dismissed.

There's all kinds of good reasons to contest any ticket, and that's what due process is about. I don't pretend that due process actually exists in many traffic courts, but I don't see any problem with contesting any violation, no matter what you did or didn't do, and I don't think anybody should be judged by the people here for doing it and posting about it, unless of course, you are so completely perfect that you've never done anything wrong in your life.

I've contested many tickets that were written above that 1MPH difference between a small amount of points and a large number of points, and in all cases, all I had to do was talk to the prosecutor and ask him to agree to reduce the offense to the lower speed and I would plead guilty at the lower level. If he didn't agree to the terms, I could get a postponement, hire an attorney, and decide what to do from there.

-David


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## Steamboat Bill (Jun 26, 2008)

Wow…I take my eye off this thread and all heck breaks loose and people start reporting this thread as a problem post and posting that I am rude to other members.

I have NEVER gotten any points on my license in 30 years of driving and have never been in an accident, although someone backed into my parked car one time at a shopping mall.

About 20 years ago I was actually pulled over one time for driving too slow and got off with a warning. I was lost and that was pre-GPS days and I was a young gentleman with a fancy car…the police officer told me one sign of drunk driving was driving too slow.

I did get a speeding ticket about 10-15 years ago that I challenged in court and won with no points, no school and no fine as the cop never showed up for court and I was let off scott free.

A few hours ago, I drove the street where I received a citation and it is pretty confusing as a three lane road with a 45mph turns off into a single lane road with a 30mph zone without any speed limit change warning. Thus, it really is pretty confusing and I think I have a winnable case.

I add “color” to some of my stories and they are all 100% true…go ahead and try to disprove any one…seriously, why would I make these things up?

I have met several TUGers in real life and perhaps they can either vouch or challenge anything I posted. Anything I posted on this thread with personal information was in response to someone questioning my integrity.

I also believe OJ was guilty…but guess what, he had his day in court and he was proven not-guilty (that is not the same as innocent). Perhaps that is a bad example as I think he did it, but it clarifies the point I am trying to make about challenging this speeding ticket.

BTW – according to the dictionary – “wacky” means “eccentric or irrational” and that is not a bad thing. If my screen name was "Troll Bill" and someone posted that I looked like a Troll, then I doubt I would be too upset about it. 

One thing I am not is a hypocrite and if you are a driver and think I am a jerk for challenging a speeding ticket that is fine. But my advice is that people in glass houses should not throw stones. If every speeder got a ticket, nobody would have a license as they all would be revoked. I am not justifying my “possible” speeding as I really don’t know how fast I was driving because I was shocked to see an officer jump out from behind a large tree and raise his hands for me to stop…geeze, if I was going that fast, I probably would have hit him.


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## Beaglemom3 (Jun 27, 2008)

For starters, here's one blaring difference:

I got a speeding ticket once. I deserved it. I was not paying attention, speeding +12 mph over the limit, apologized, owned up to it and did not try to weasel out of it. 
Had to pay the extra insurance for about 7 years. Sucked it up, learned a hard, but valuable lesson. Was respsonsible for my irresponsible actions. Simple.

Not one poster is claiming perfection here.

Very true, contesting a ticket is very thing to do when you're not guility of speeding. Trying to beat it when you are, completely different.

The original story seems to be morphing into something different.


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## Pat H (Jun 27, 2008)

Steamboat Bill said:


> The officer could have cut me a break and written 14 mph instead of 15. But then again, I "may" have been traveling faster than 15mph...who can trust speedometers these days???





			
				Steamboat Bill said:
			
		

> I am not justifying my “possible” speeding as I really don’t know how fast I was driving



So which is it? Those 2 statements contradict each other.


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## Steamboat Bill (Jun 27, 2008)

After rereading this thread from the start, I think I will limit my future posts as everyone here is taking personal shots at me and I am unable to post any replies as I am a "moderator" or "lifetime member" and anything I post will be taken out of context.

My intention was to share my experience (and hopeful victory) and it saddens me that anyone would threaten me with reporting this thread to the police department where I live.

It also saddens me that people think I lie and make up stories and keep bringing up DIS where I was banned for trying to encourage people to raise the rental rates (which is an acceptable topic now).

Even thought I am getting more involved with Destination Clubs than timeshares, I still love timeshares (and own a ton of them) and my future goal is to travel 52 weeks per year in TIMESHARES when my kids go off to college as who really needs a large home then.

Truth be told.....I really have no idea how fast I was driving.

If I was a chronic speeder, I would be like several of my buddies that own Porsches and Ferraris and install a $1,500 laser gun jammer. Those seem to work pretty well.


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## Icarus (Jun 27, 2008)

Beaglemom3 said:


> I was not paying attention, speeding +12 mph over the limit, apologized, owned up to it and did not try to weasel out of it.
> 
> ...
> 
> ...



How is that not judgmental? (Besides, speaking for everybody else that posted.)

Bill's a relatively easy target because of the way he posts.

-David


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## Pat H (Jun 27, 2008)

Steamboat Bill said:


> it saddens me that anyone would threaten me with reporting this thread to the police department where I live.



If you are referring to my post, then you'd better read it again. I was pointing out to you that when you post info like this on the internet, you leave yourself open to having it used against you in court. No one was "threatening" you.


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## TUGBrian (Jun 27, 2008)

this thread needs to calm down or be closed.

certainly heated on both sides...and i think we are all capable of speaking our mind without being insulting.


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## Beaglemom3 (Jun 27, 2008)

Icarus said:


> How is that not judgmental? (Besides, speaking for everybody else that posted.)+
> 
> Bill's a relatively easy target because of the way he posts.**
> 
> -David



*Not judgemental, a factual observation in reviewing all posts. Did not read one poster as claiming to be perfect, that is, unless you read something I missed which is entirely possible.

** How true.

Getting back to the topic at hand, I will monitor the court's website as this is in the public domain.
We have quick access to this link at law school. 
Got to get back to studying.
 It's been interesting to say the least.


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## AwayWeGo (Jun 27, 2008)

*Context, Shmontext.*




Steamboat Bill said:


> After rereading this thread from the start, I think I will limit my future posts as everyone here is taking personal shots at me and I am unable to post any replies as I am a "moderator" or "lifetime member" and anything I post will be taken out of context.


Ahh, don't do that, Steamer.  Keep'm coming.  Let the context take care of itself.  

What do we care about _context_ anyway ? 

I mean, all this is is a _timeshare_ discussion forum.  Who takes any of it even semi-seriously ? 

We need context around here the way penguins needs snowshoes, the way turtles need pup tents. 

So you collect a few slings & arrows along the way.  No biggie.  

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


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## Icarus (Jun 27, 2008)

Beaglemom3 said:


> *Not judgemental, a factual observation in reviewing all posts.



Specifically, this:



> Trying to beat it when you are, completely different.



FWIW, I agree with Alan's last post.

I found the website to be informative and interesting that there was a law firm that specialized only in traffic tickets and had a no pay if they lose policy. I wondered how they could actually make money at it. I guess if they get enough defendants and the same attorney can represent them all in the same court session, it might be worthwhile. I also wondered what the fine print was on the guarantee.

A lot of people tell other people to do things on TUG that I would never consider. Sometimes I post about them, usually I don't bother.

Oh well, that's it for me in this thread. Have fun. If you're not having fun, maybe move on to the next fun topic?

-David


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## Steamboat Bill (Jun 27, 2008)

Against my better judgment....I find myself drawn back to posting on this thread like a moth flies into the light and a certain death.



Icarus said:


> Bill's a relatively easy target because of the way he posts.
> 
> -David



Thanks David....everyone should know that you were the only TUGer that visited me in Maui and the other guests were from the DC4MS website.

Also, David kindly brought over a  delicious apple pie, some new golf balls (as we kept hitting the old ones into the creek and bushes) and even offered his house to me if I needed to shower before my late flight as my check-out was 11am, but we drove to Hana and barely made it to the airport in time. Thanks again for the offer and it was a pleasure meeting you in real life. I guess my onscreen personality is a little edgier than my real life personality.

In case you missed the pics I uploaded of the awesome Maui home...here they are:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/steamboatbill/sets/72157605834990816/detail/ 



Beaglemom3 said:


> Getting back to the topic at hand, I will monitor the court's website as this is in the public domain.
> We have quick access to this at law school.



Interesting, but is that really possible, as there are probably thousands of tickets written each day and you are only interested in my outcome. I will gladly post about it here and if you do find it online...congrats. I never admitted that I absolutely was speeding....I only said I got a citation. Good luck with law school and perhaps this thread has taught you something about the legal system you are about to enter.



AwayWeGo said:


> Ahh, don't do that, Steamer.  Keep'm coming.  Let the context take care of itself.




Shux, I am taking your advice cautiously.


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## Beaglemom3 (Jun 27, 2008)

"Interesting, but not that possible, as there are probably thousands of tickets written each day and you are only interested in my outcome. I will gladly post about it here and if you do find it online...congrats. I never admitted that I absolutely was speeding....I only said I got a citation."


Uh, extremely possible and simple.

I am interested in the truth, actually.


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## Icarus (Jun 27, 2008)

Steamboat Bill said:


> Also, David kindly brought over a  delicious apple pie, some new golf balls (as we kept hitting them into the creek and bushes).



In the interest of full disclosure, I asked Bill what I should bring to the BBQ.

His answer: Golf Balls!

So that's what I brought. But I figured I should bring some food with me.

Bill and his wife made steaks, chicken, some great appetizers including a ton of large shrimp, some great side dishes, macadamia nut brownies, ... there was this great string bean side dish, with almond slivers, but the beans were dry and crisp. That was really good too.

I know, I said I wouldn't post any more in this thread, but at least this was off topic.

-David


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## Kona Lovers (Jun 27, 2008)

Steamboat Bill said:


> Thanks David....everyone should know that you were the only TUGer that visited me in Maui and the other guests were from the DC4MS website.



Great that you guys got together on Maui.  

Now, Bill, was this the night of the FULL MOON incident?:rofl: 

Marty


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## talkamotta (Jun 27, 2008)

I have lived in the same house for 30 years.  Everyone, if they drive, and live in the neighborhood for over 6 months- will get at least one ticket on  one of 5 streets.  Its all residential with hills.  

Family members/friends that visit me are all warned.  Sooner or later you will get a ticket. You just pick up speed going down those hills.  Its a good thing, dont know of one child that has been hit.  

One day I, too was going down one of the hills and was pulled over.  "Can I see your driver's license and registration, Mam"   I gave him my license and the officer had the nerve to laugh.  My picture isnt very good but how rude.  
He asked me if I had a son and did he drive a Subaru too.  "Yes"  I said.  
He then said "I cant give 2 tickets to the same family in the same day."  He went on to tell me I needed to slow down and be a better example for my son, he also was going 42 miles. 

So that night at dinner.  I said "Alan, Ive told you a hundred times to slow down around here and now you have a ticket."   He was shocked.  How did I know, which neighbor told me.  I said the police office pulled me over and told me he had given my son a ticket. Alan, of course, still didnt believe me.  Then I said how come you were going 42 miles in a 30 mile/hr zone.  I said *MOMS KNOW EVERYTHING *  and went on with my dinner.


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## bobcat (Jun 27, 2008)

TUGBrian said:


> this thread needs to calm down or be closed.
> 
> certainly heated on both sides...and i think we are all capable of speaking our mind without being insulting.



Brian, can you please close down this thread.


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## Beaglemom3 (Jun 27, 2008)

Is it that only the OP can request a thread closing ? 

I was PM'd by a poster on this thread.
I have chosen not to open it for as an officer of the court, I have had my public say. 
Hope this is understood. No ill will or mean-spiritedness.


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## pwrshift (Jun 27, 2008)

Bill hasn't been the same since his Maui trip...   

http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showpost.php?p=542117&postcount=1


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## Steamboat Bill (Jun 27, 2008)

pwrshift said:


> Bill hasn't been the same since his Maui trip...
> 
> http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showpost.php?p=542117&postcount=1



yeah...it must have been something in the Maui water.

Just for fun, click on the link a few posts above and you can see a cool pic I took of the Full moon above the property about an hour or so BEFORE we went into the hot tub. Then view some pics of how large the backyard and side yards are.

I called the Ticket Clinic this morning and they gave me a 100% money back guarantee that I will get no points and no driving school because I have such a clean driving record and I am a model "Safe Driver" but it will take 90-120 days to completely resolve.


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## Jim C (Jun 27, 2008)

Steamboat Bill said:


> After rereading this thread from the start, I think I will limit my future posts as everyone here is taking personal shots at me and I am unable to post any replies as I am a "moderator" or "lifetime member" and anything I post will be taken out of context.
> 
> My intention was to share my experience (and hopeful victory) and it saddens me that anyone would threaten me with reporting this thread to the police department where I live.



Guess not many care to share your experience and eventual conviction.


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## Steamboat Bill (Jun 27, 2008)

Wow...this thread reminds me of the movie The Matrix.

I took the Red Pill and have found that things may not be as they seem and there is a 100% legal, ethical, and viable method to challenge a speeding ticket.

Others seem to have taken the Blue Pill and are in a blissful state of ignorance of reality and living in a system where they simply do not question authority.

Also, if this thread bothers you....don't read it and definitely don't post and it will die a natural death.


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## TUGBrian (Jun 27, 2008)

stirring the pot isnt helping things.

post closed


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