# HGV officially acquires Diamond Resorts



## Chrisky (Aug 2, 2021)

Just received this email. 



Today marks an exciting milestone for our company and the entire travel industry.
As of this morning, Hilton Grand Vacations has officially acquired Diamond Resorts. Together, we are now one of the world’s largest timeshare networks with a combined portfolio of 710,000 Owners, 154 properties and the broadest range of offerings in vacation ownership.
To our new Owners, I am excited to welcome you to the Hilton Grand Vacations family and look forward to meeting many of you in the future. And to all of you, thank you. We reached this milestone today because of your loyalty and passion for travel and, together, we remain focused on delivering high-quality, world-class vacation experiences.
We recognize the world of travel is changing and through this transformational combination, we are better positioned to provide you with more options in more destinations, which means more flexibility in where, how and when you travel. 
As Owners, your vacation experiences with us are critical, and I want to highlight what opportunities this combination will create or enhance. I'll also highlight what is not changing — our exceptional service and focus on once-in-a-lifetime experiences.​





*What Are The Opportunities*

*More Destinations:* Our network now extends to over 150 properties in sought-after destinations, including drive-to, regional and international markets. Many of these properties are in new locations and highly desired vacation spots. 


*Greater Product Access:* Together, we will provide the broadest range of offerings with a broader price range — from upscale to luxury offerings. As new membership and timeshare product opportunities are available, we will be sure to share these with you, including program and product costs. For the time being, nothing changes — your important contacts remain the same, and you will continue to make reservations as you do now. 






*What Is Not Changing*

*Uninterrupted Services:* We are committed to ensuring a smooth and seamless transition to a combined business. Integrating Hilton Grand Vacations and Diamond Resorts is a multi-year, phased approach and, at this time, both companies will continue to operate independently. Your access to your timeshare or Club exchange programs, existing resort destinations, contracts and services will remain the same.


*Focus on Excellence:* Both Hilton Grand Vacations and Diamond Resorts are dedicated to creating exceptional travel experiences. As a combined business, we will be guided by the Hilton Grand Vacations mission, vision and values and we'll remain committed to delighting our Owners and guests through exceptional service, while achieving new heights of excellence.






In the months and years ahead, our Team Members look forward to serving you as we integrate these two outstanding companies into one. If you have any questions in the meantime, please *click here*. This page provides answers to questions you might have about the acquisition.
We truly appreciate your continued loyalty, and I hope that you are as excited as we are to embark on this new chapter together. With our shared vision for the future, I am proud to be part of a strong, unified and truly exceptional new era for Hilton Grand Vacations.​


----------



## RX8 (Aug 2, 2021)

This was the most interesting to me:

“our Team Members look forward to serving you as we *integrate these two outstanding companies into one*.”


----------



## Ty1on (Aug 2, 2021)

RX8 said:


> This was the most interesting to me:
> 
> “our Team Members look forward to serving you as we *integrate these two outstanding companies into one*.”



Companies<>Systems


----------



## sarahsliefie (Aug 2, 2021)

Let us observe as the excrement impacts the quickly moving rotational air transport system.


----------



## pedro47 (Aug 2, 2021)

It could be worst. Hilton could have merge with Westgate???? LOL


----------



## SeattleAl (Aug 2, 2021)

My dream would be that HGVC gets rid of Diamond's pushy and aggressive sales force and goes with HGVC's approach.
I've stayed at Hiltons a few times and have never been pressured to attend a sales pitch at check-in.
That happens every time you stay at a Diamond property where even if you ignore their pre-check-in phone calls, they intercept you at the check-in line and send you to the "VIP" room.


----------



## rboesl (Aug 2, 2021)

I'm a Diamond owner. So, I followed the link in notice to the list of questions. I lost count of how many times it said "you will continue to access/book as you do today." Basically, a lot of words with not a lot of information.


----------



## kanerf (Aug 2, 2021)

As an HGVC Elite member I am looking forward to what this will do for the club.  There is a property in Alexandria that I have wanted to stay at, Lorian, which will be part of the new system.  It is almost across the street from the Wyndham Old Town Alexandria property.


----------



## youppi (Aug 2, 2021)

kanerf said:


> As an HGVC Elite member I am looking forward to what this will do for the club.  There is a property in Alexandria that I have wanted to stay at, Lorian, which will be part of the new system.  It is almost across the street from the Wyndham Old Town Alexandria property.


Are talking about this resort https://www.diamondresorts.com/destinations/property/Lorien-Hotel-and-Spa ?
This resort is not a DRI property. It's a club affiliated resort.
The 92 DRI resorts acquired by HGVC are https://www.diamondresortsandhotels.com/Resorts
Interesting presentation from HGVC: https://s27.q4cdn.com/757306400/files/doc_presentations/FINAL-HGV-DRI-Slides-(1).pdf


----------



## pedro47 (Aug 3, 2021)

Those 92 resorts acquired by HGVC looks pretty good. But what about those resorts in The Diamond Club that are affiliated resorts ? Liked Royal Dunes and Island Link in South Carolina.


----------



## dayooper (Aug 3, 2021)

pedro47 said:


> Those 92 resorts acquired by HGVC looks pretty good. But what about those resorts in The Diamond Club that are affiliated resorts ? Liked Royal Dunes and Island Link in South Carolina.



Who knows if HGVC will keep the affiliation? From the sound of it, many of those were very difficult to book.


----------



## DRIless (Aug 3, 2021)

pedro47 said:


> Those 92 resorts acquired by HGVC looks pretty good. But what about those resorts in The Diamond Club that are affiliated resorts ? Liked Royal Dunes and Island Link in South Carolina.





dayooper said:


> Who knows if HGVC will keep the affiliation? From the sound of it, many of those were very difficult to book.



Almost ALWAYS very difficult to book what/when you want at an 'Affiliated Resort.'
They are just 'fluff' to make the resort catalog bigger and more appealing.


----------



## CalGalTraveler (Aug 3, 2021)

There are a few HGVC resorts that 'fluff' out the catalog but are difficult to book unless you own that resort: South Florida (except Miami), Barbados, Portugal.


----------



## dayooper (Aug 3, 2021)

DRIless said:


> Almost ALWAYS very difficult to book what/when you want at an 'Affiliated Resort.'
> They are just 'fluff' to make the resort catalog bigger and more appealing.



That is what I thought.


----------



## dayooper (Aug 3, 2021)

CalGalTraveler said:


> There are a few HGVC resorts that 'fluff' out the catalog but are difficult to book unless you own that resort: South Florida (except Miami), Barbados, Portugal.



Hilton Head is difficult as well.


----------



## Gwendyc (Aug 3, 2021)

SeattleAl said:


> My dream would be that HGVC gets rid of Diamond's pushy and aggressive sales force and goes with HGVC's approach.
> I've stayed at Hiltons a few times and have never been pressured to attend a sales pitch at check-in.
> That happens every time you stay at a Diamond property where even if you ignore their pre-check-in phone calls, they intercept you at the check-in line and send you to the "VIP" room.


We are HGVC owners but have an upcoming stay planned at a DRI resort in Virginia. Glad this gives us a good reason to avoid a presentation.


----------



## pedro47 (Aug 3, 2021)

Information only:
DRI owners will still login into their accounts using the DRI website.


----------



## youppi (Aug 3, 2021)

pedro47 said:


> Those 92 resorts acquired by HGVC looks pretty good. But what about those resorts in The Diamond Club that are affiliated resorts ? Liked Royal Dunes and Island Link in South Carolina.


Some of those resorts are not only affiliated, the US Collection trust owns some units at these resorts and pays MF to these HOA like Dune Village and Island Link.
see the 2019 financial report of the US Collection: https://owners.diamondresorts.com/webui/doc_load_from_store?pvFileName=F-929237960/US Collection 19 Final.pdf


----------



## Arusso (Aug 7, 2021)

I would assume that since DR no longer exists as a corporate entity some of their executives might stay on and work with the HGV's leadership team to assist with the transition as a strategic plan is formulated.  But, it's HGV's show now and it will make the decisions.  Just as in prior mergers in the vacation-ownership industry and other recent mergers, as in the aviation industry (merging reservation and customer benefit programs) there are specialized consulting companies that advise management.   None of this may be of interest to owners.  nevertheless, there are certainly a slew of questions that we would like answers to sooner rather than later. 

I'll just mention two.  Probably the most important one is ownership valuation.  I view this challenge as if a new currency is brought to the world's currency market and the new currency needs to be valued against a benchmark from which it can exchange with other currencies.  This is only fair.  What will that benchmark be? Most of us might logically conclude that HGV ownership will be the benchmark from which DR ownership will be valued.  Once valuation  is established, it will be translated across the portfolio.   I'm a pragmatic realist.  Some of us might be unaffected and some might not be happy with the results.  In this case, the pitch will be made at an "owner's update" to "equalize" or "enhance" your value - in other words,  your ownership was devalued and to bring you back to where you were before, you need to spend more money.  I'm speculating here but time will tell.

Another area of concern might more draconian i.e. the eventual determination that certain properties will be sold off because they may not fit the strategic plan and vision of HGV's strategic plan because of redundancy, too expense to rehabilitate, too expensive to operate, or other reasons.   

The bottom line is that owners have no input into any of this. We just wait and see what happens.


----------



## T_R_Oglodyte (Aug 7, 2021)

Arusso said:


> In this case, the pitch will be made at an "owner's update" to "equalize" or "enhance" your value - in other words, your ownership was devalued and to bring you back to where you were before, you need to spend more money. I'm speculating here but time will tell.


Diamond has been using the "Fear of Loss" sales strategy for years.  Each time they add new perks to the system, those perks go only to new buyers.  So assume that it used to be that owners could reserve 12-months before check-in.  Then the Club is added and club members can make reservations 13 months in advance.  So you need to buy into the Club to have equal footing to reserve, particularly during peak times. Along the way, the ability to reserve specific rooms at the time you make your reservation.  Then comes the Gold level, with an ability reserve specific rooms.  Need to upgrade if you still want to reserve a specific room.  Then comes Platinum, where you can book 16 months in advance.  Want to retain those first right of booking privileges.  Now you need to be platinum.

So in the initial sales pitch, early in resort life, buyers are told that all owners are on equal footing for reservations.  Then that gets the added clause, but some are more equal than others.


----------



## ccwu (Aug 7, 2021)

T_R_Oglodyte said:


> Diamond has been using the "Fear of Loss" sales strategy for years. Each time they add new perks to the system, those perks go only to new buyers. So assume that it used to be that owners could reserve 12-months before check-in. Then the Club is added and club members can make reservations 13 months in advance. So you need to buy into the Club to have equal footing to reserve, particularly during peak times. Along the way, the ability to reserve specific rooms at the time you make your reservation. Then comes the Gold level, with an ability reserve specific rooms. Need to upgrade if you still want to reserve a specific room. Then comes Platinum, where you can book 16 months in advance. Want to retain those first right of booking privileges. Now you need to be platinum.
> 
> So in the initial sales pitch, early in resort life, buyers are told that all owners are on equal footing for reservations. Then that gets the added clause, but some are more equal than others.



We have been platinum member since Sunterra. Our benefits has been gradually taking away piece by piece. We bought more from DRI. We hope they are not take any more of our previlege away. We paid in the front and of course we should be treated better than the resale owner. We are also elite premier of HGV. The merger did not concern us. HGV treat resale the same as retail (other then resale points can not qualify for metal status). I hope they adopt some attitude from DRI to treat retail owners better. As elite premier, we had no booking previlege in club reservation. I have been complaining that we should at least have a month advance booking previlege than resale owners. 

By the way as platinum in DRI, we only have 14 month window to book home collections. But that is enough to grab peak season hard to get resorts. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## CalGalTraveler (Aug 7, 2021)

T_R_Oglodyte said:


> Diamond has been using the "Fear of Loss" sales strategy for years.  Each time they add new perks to the system, those perks go only to new buyers.  So assume that it used to be that owners could reserve 12-months before check-in.  Then the Club is added and club members can make reservations 13 months in advance.  So you need to buy into the Club to have equal footing to reserve, particularly during peak times. Along the way, the ability to reserve specific rooms at the time you make your reservation.  Then comes the Gold level, with an ability reserve specific rooms.  Need to upgrade if you still want to reserve a specific room.  Then comes Platinum, where you can book 16 months in advance.  Want to retain those first right of booking privileges.  Now you need to be platinum.
> 
> So in the initial sales pitch, early in resort life, buyers are told that all owners are on equal footing for reservations.  Then that gets the added clause, but some are more equal than others.



This works in a points based trust like DRI. It would work for club reservations in HGV where they can change the rules on points reservations. It won't work on deeded home week reservations because you would be denying an owner a right they purchased to access the property during a given period. This would generate lawsuits. If they instituted reservation tiering, current deeded week owners would need to be grandfathered for home week privileges.

I hope they don't start hurting resales because they may find a deluge of deedbacks and abandonments due to lowering the value of resale. The last thing HGV needs right now with the DRI acquisition is more inventory on the books. Resale privileges makes the properties more valuable to future buyers because you can demonstrate an exit.


----------



## Arusso (Aug 7, 2021)

T_R_Oglodyte said:


> Diamond has been using the "Fear of Loss" sales strategy for years.  Each time they add new perks to the system, those perks go only to new buyers.  So assume that it used to be that owners could reserve 12-months before check-in.  Then the Club is added and club members can make reservations 13 months in advance.  So you need to buy into the Club to have equal footing to reserve, particularly during peak times. Along the way, the ability to reserve specific rooms at the time you make your reservation.  Then comes the Gold level, with an ability reserve specific rooms.  Need to upgrade if you still want to reserve a specific room.  Then comes Platinum, where you can book 16 months in advance.  Want to retain those first right of booking privileges.  Now you need to be platinum.
> 
> So in the initial sales pitch, early in resort life, buyers are told that all owners are on equal footing for reservations.  Then that gets the added clause, but some are more equal than others.


Exactly correct, my friend.   that's how they continue to squeeze the juice out of the lemon.  in this case it is existing owners.


----------



## T_R_Oglodyte (Aug 7, 2021)

Arusso said:


> Exactly correct, my friend.   that's how they continue to squeeze the juice out of the lemon.  in this case it is existing owners.


When I was in Sales Training I learned about the "Fear of Loss" strategy.  The instructor hated it because it plays on negative emotions, and he felt that using it cheapened what you were selling and if you had to rely on negative feelings to complete the sale, you should find something better to sell. I've never used Fear of Loss.

I also never denigrated or dumped on the competition, for the same reasoning - don't sell negative.  Even when I was in the client's office because the competition had screwed up the job and had been ejected from the project.  The competition is always good, nobody is perfect, and I'm sorry that things worked out for you that way.  Now let me show you how we will manage the project to assure that you don't experience something like that again on this project.


----------



## Arusso (Aug 7, 2021)

CalGalTraveler said:


> This works in a points based trust like DRI. It would work for club reservations in HGV where they can change the rules on points reservations. It won't work on deeded home week reservations because you would be denying an owner a right they purchased to access the property during a given period. This would generate lawsuits. If they instituted reservation tiering, current deeded week owners would need to be grandfathered for home week privileges.
> 
> I hope they don't start hurting resales because they may find a deluge of deedbacks and abandonments due to lowering the value of resale. The last thing HGV needs right now with the DRI acquisition is more inventory on the books. Resale privileges makes the properties more valuable to future buyers because you can demonstrate an exit.


Agree.  But not all DR portfolios are points only "owners."  many are still deeded.  Certainly, as you stated, HGV cannot rescind a deeded's owner's right to occupy the time period owned without this action being litigated.  In addition, deeded owners would be absolutely exempt with any changes to reservation priorities that may come down the road as T_R_Oglodyte recounts in his comment to my post.  Been there, done that.   Most of us that have played this game for a while can appreciate two things that will unlikely change in the future.

1)  HGV will find new tactics to convert as many deeded owners as they can to the Club system.  In fact, they may make a "once in a lifetime" offer to convert for a bargain basement price of the owner just paying for the cost of the paperwork.  Another tactic may be to offer conversion to owners of a certain age with a buyback provision at the front-end of the deal.   i suppose this might be very attractive to some seniors.  Myself included ??!! 

2)  Over time,  we know that the cost of points sold by the developer is disproportionate to the actual value in the open market.  Despite this, the industry will continually find novel tactics to get current owners to purchase more points.  I'm certain developers have contemplated making points purchased on the open market unable to be used.   Operationally, they haven't figured out how to do it - yet.  

Of course at lot of this is speculation, but if past behavior is indicative of future trends......We can only hope that HGV, by their management decisions, will elevate our ownership experience without us paying more for what we already have.


----------



## Arusso (Aug 7, 2021)

T_R_Oglodyte said:


> When I was in Sales Training I learned about the "Fear of Loss" strategy.  The instructor hated it because it plays on negative emotions, and he felt that using it cheapened what you were selling and if you had to rely on negative feelings to complete the sale, you should find something better to sell. I've never used Fear of Loss.
> 
> I also never denigrated or dumped on the competition, for the same reasoning - don't sell negative.  Even when I was in the client's office because the competition had screwed up the job and had been ejected from the project.  The competition is always good, nobody is perfect, and I'm sorry that things worked out for you that way.  Now let me show you how we will manage the project to assure that you don't experience something like that again on this project.


Correct.  TS sales people, car salesmen and some others  in sales operating in a venue where they can push the the customer emotionally and get him / her to impulse buy.  Therefore,  the marketing psychology that has the greatest impact is this setting is "fear of loss." Certainly, if this type of sales tactic is ethically offensive to someone, they have no business in that industry.   I'm a retired physician.  Imagine the consequences if I had advised my patients to have a procedure or treatment if I played on their emotions instead of advising what I thought was in their best interest?


----------



## T_R_Oglodyte (Aug 7, 2021)

Arusso said:


> Correct.  TS sales people, car salesmen and some others  in sales operating in a venue where they can push the the customer emotionally and get him / her to impulse buy.  Therefore,  the marketing psychology that has the greatest impact is this setting is "fear of loss." Certainly, if this type of sales tactic is ethically offensive to someone, they have no business in that industry.   I'm a retired physician.  Imagine the consequences if I had advised my patients to have a procedure or treatment if I played on their emotions instead of advising what I thought was in their best interest?


One rejoinder to the offer when the deal is only good today is to say "I'm sorry you have so little confidence that this is a good deal for me."  That usually pulls some type of response, to which you can reply - "So,  you do believe that this is a slam-dunk good deal for me, and therefore, it's in my best interests to complete the deal now?"  To which the answer will be "Yes - of course". 

And then you can respond, "If it's such a good deal, and I take more time to think about it, shouldn't I come back tomorrow or in a week, even more convinced than I am now that it's a good deal?"  And they will probably come back with a reply that is intended to shift the focus of the conversation.  If they're good, they're response will be to ask you a question to reply to, because by doing so they will tilt the conversation back in their direction.  But you ignore that and back the conversation up.  Something such as "If you believe the deal was as good for me as you say, why do you feel it is so important to have 'today only' incentives?" 

And don't let go of that.  You can point out that this is a business decision for them - they offer the "today only" incentives, because by doing the capture more sales than they would by letting people have more time to think about it.


************
*Folks - one of the fundamental tenets of sales is that the person who asks the questions is in control.  Not the person who is doing the talking.* Top sales people spend lots of time asking questions to learn about you.  They only start talking after they feel that they understand you and your motives and desires, and they then craft their pitch to hit those points that are important.

The best way to interact in a sales presentation is to ask your own questions.  And don't be afraid to say that you need more time to review information and learn more about the product that you are buying.  That's the same thing as going out and doing research on a car to verify information the car salesman told you on the lot. 

Tell them you will buy when you are ready to buy, when you are comfortable that buying this product is the best option for you with the money at your disposal.  And if they raise some objection to that, your response should be to ask them why they have a problem with you doing that?


----------



## dougp26364 (Aug 8, 2021)

T_R_Oglodyte said:


> Diamond has been using the "Fear of Loss" sales strategy for years.  Each time they add new perks to the system, those perks go only to new buyers.  So assume that it used to be that owners could reserve 12-months before check-in.  Then the Club is added and club members can make reservations 13 months in advance.  So you need to buy into the Club to have equal footing to reserve, particularly during peak times. Along the way, the ability to reserve specific rooms at the time you make your reservation.  Then comes the Gold level, with an ability reserve specific rooms.  Need to upgrade if you still want to reserve a specific room.  Then comes Platinum, where you can book 16 months in advance.  Want to retain those first right of booking privileges.  Now you need to be platinum.
> 
> So in the initial sales pitch, early in resort life, buyers are told that all owners are on equal footing for reservations.  Then that gets the added clause, but some are more equal than others.



When Diamond bought Sunterra and Polo Towers owners could join THE Club, initially it was a soft pitch to PoloTowers owners, buy points OR pay a joiner fee to gain access to all of Sunterra’s benefits. We paid a joiner fee to put our 2, over valued (IMHO) Polo Towers weeks into THE Club.

Fast forward a couple of years. We hadn’t bought anything additional, and we were never going to make another purchase with DRI. That’s when the really hard fear mongering began. The push had advanced to “Put your deeded weeks into the US Trust or else…….” The BIG fear leverage was MF’s. In the trust, special adjustments were spread out over the thousands of owners in the trust, not just the owners at the one resort. Deeded owners would have to pay the FULL SA while trust owners would pay a small fraction, because they owned small increments in each resort. The big scary stick they used to beat owners with was, “Polo Towers HOA has a HUGE SA in the THOUSANDS planned for the near future.”

We never bit, it never happened, but it didn’t stop them from repeating that lie with every presentation we attended. My answer was always the same. The divided MF of the trust was ALWAYS more expensive than simply maintaining my MF on the individual deed plus paying the annual MF fee, joining the trust was at least $500 more expensive in yearly fees with NO significant added benefit. 

They cured that problem a few years down the road when they jacked up our TH Club membership by making the fee based on number of points instead of a flat fee (HGVC currently has a flat fee for membership). When that one pure management fee shot up with no added benefit, that’s the point we got out. DRI had already become the also-ran ownership when making our vacation plans, so we did a deed back and haven’t regretted the decision. Not even the merger with HGVC has caused me to regret the decision. Mostly because Hilton has also become an also-ran ownership when we’re making our yearly vacation plans. It’s just that, unlike DRI, the cost of keeping our HGVC ownership still holds some value for us. We still travel to Vegas and we prefer the Hilton Vegas resorts. Hilton is also the only good option (IMHO) form the big island of Hawaii (loved the premium unit at Bay Club). Hilton buying DRI has potential upside for us whereas DRI acquiring Hilton had plenty of downside based on our previous experience with the DRI spin machine. 

Hilton hasn’t typically used the fear factor in our presentations. Instead, they’ve focused on the added benefits available, staying away from the, “You’ll be left out in the cold” or, “Everyone else will be able to book ahead of you, so you won’t be able to get your desired weeks” schtick used by so many others. OTOH, we haven’t attended a Hilton presentation for several years, so things may have changed. The last one we attended was not long after they bought Elara. We had stayed there the previous year and I was interested in moving my deed from LV Blv to Elara, I just didn’t tell them that factoid. I wanted to see where they would lead me. 

After some discussion and them asking my biggest complaint about timeshare, which was ever increasing MF’s, the direction went to trading in my LV Blv EY week for an EOY Kingsland week, which would lower my MF’s, but give me fewer points and require I hand them approx $10,000 up front. It was a pretty easy no for us. We never discussed how much more we liked Elara over LV Blv or the pricing at that resort. I’m rarely foolish enough to tip my hand as to my true interest as that tends to bring out the hard sell. Gently hinting out something we like and seeing what direction they go is enough. If they don’t take the hint, then my assumption is I won’t like the answer.


----------



## Arusso (Aug 8, 2021)

dougp26364 said:


> When Diamond bought Sunterra and Polo Towers owners could join THE Club, initially it was a soft pitch to PoloTowers owners, buy points OR pay a joiner fee to gain access to all of Sunterra’s benefits. We paid a joiner fee to put our 2, over valued (IMHO) Polo Towers weeks into THE Club.
> 
> Fast forward a couple of years. We hadn’t bought anything additional, and we were never going to make another purchase with DRI. That’s when the really hard fear mongering began. The push had advanced to “Put your deeded weeks into the US Trust or else…….” The BIG fear leverage was MF’s. In the trust, special adjustments were spread out over the thousands of owners in the trust, not just the owners at the one resort. Deeded owners would have to pay the FULL SA while trust owners would pay a small fraction, because they owned small increments in each resort. The big scary stick they used to beat owners with was, “Polo Towers HOA has a HUGE SA in the THOUSANDS planned for the near future.”
> 
> ...


I'm sure I speak for others on this forum in appreciating your insight, experience and perspective as you have experience in both DR and HGV systems.  I dare say that far too many people were never instructed on the psychology of marketing and sales and do not have the skills to understand and counter the tactics used by salespersons.  As a result they are vulnerable to the whatever tactic is used.  If your observation HGV's interaction does not change, all owners will benefit.

What is your opinion regarding the DR Trusts? Will HGV dissolve them and have each property operate as individual resorts with their own HOAs?


----------



## CalGalTraveler (Aug 8, 2021)

Arusso said:


> What is your opinion regarding the DR Trusts? Will HGV dissolve them and have each property operate as individual resorts with their own HOAs?



I also appreciate @dougp26364 insights.

re: the trusts. I am not a DRI owner but am an HGVC owner. I doubt HGVC would dissolve the trust because they have been criticized by security analysts for not having one and they have said on earnings calls that they have been investigating this. DRI trust is their way to quickly resolve this concern and learn how to operate a trust. In addition, MVC and the industry have moved to selling trust only points products so they may need something in their quiver to remain competitive.

It is possible they could trade deeds in and out of the trusts. For example, pull premium Hawaii oceanfront and Sedona weeks out and trade for Big Island or Vegas weeks. I believe it is within their rights  but depends on how the DRI trust is written. For example, with Westin Flex Trust you cannot get Westin Oceanfront - only IV and extremely limited Colorado ski weeks. The premium units remain deeded with enrolled points.

It is likely that they would convert Embarc and existing DRI deeded weeks at premium DRI resorts to the HGVC deeded week/points enrollment system. Embarc was a trading affiliate with HGV prior to the DRI acquisition so those resorts already have assigned points exchange values.

I have been told that Asian buyers - particularly Japanese - are skeptical of trusts and will only buy deeded weeks. A large portion of HGV customers in Hawaii are from Asia and there has been pent up demand so offering deeded DRI weeks would rapidly boost their sales figures in Hawaii. OTOH with Covid Asians have not been able to use their Hawaii units, and HGVC just opened a new resort on Okinawa which may offset demand.

IMHO...HGVC management is still in the mindset of real estate developers i.e. build/partner a new resort and then sell the deeds.  It will take time to adjust and train sales on how trusts operate. I don't see them moving to an MVC trust point only sales model anytime soon. In fact, their offering of both deeded and trust products offers more customer options and a differentiator over MVC sales.


----------



## dougp26364 (Aug 8, 2021)

Arusso said:


> I'm sure I speak for others on this forum in appreciating your insight, experience and perspective as you have experience in both DR and HGV systems.  I dare say that far too many people were never instructed on the psychology of marketing and sales and do not have the skills to understand and counter the tactics used by salespersons.  As a result they are vulnerable to the whatever tactic is used.  If your observation HGV's interaction does not change, all owners will benefit.
> 
> What is your opinion regarding the DR Trusts? Will HGV dissolve them and have each property operate as individual resorts with their own HOAs?





dayooper said:


> While Myrtle Beach is fairly easy to get, Hilton Head is not. I’ve seen availability at Ocean 22 and Ocean Enclave at 6 months or later. Anderson fills up even slower. Ocean Oak is another story. That books up at 9 months and it’s a struggle to get that reservation even then. Who knows how fast Charleston will fill up, but I assume it will be more like Hilton Head and less like Myrtle Beach.



From a legal standpoint and an owners rights standpoint, I do not believe the trusts could be easily dissolved, nor do I feel it would be in Hilton's best interest to attempt to do such a thing. 

I really believe that, if DRI and Hilton owners are happy with what they have, they'll be able to continue to use what they currently have without change, regardless of what is said at the round table by any salesman. 

Of course, there will be some sort of "enhancement" offered. At this point it's PURE speculation as to what that enhancement will be, and the sales staff will be as clueless as we are until it's official. Rumors are just that, rumors. Until it's in writing it's not legitimate.  Tugger's and salesmen alike will have and spread rumors. Don't believe them. Wait for what Hilton puts out in writing. It's fun to speculate, but I'm wrong far more often than I'm right. 

My desire is that Hilton will offer some sort of reasonably priced avenue for owners of both companies access to each pool of inventory. I doubt this will be through blending both companies into one company, but through some sort of affiliation, much like THE Club allowed deeded week owners to convert their weeks to points, then reserve any available units from the trust, or other deeded weeks converted to points, at a specific date. 

DRI did this by assigning deeded weeks a point value. Hilton also assigns deeded weeks a point value. For instance, I have a 2 bedroom, standard platinum season unit with an assigned value of 7,000 HGVC points. Perhaps (speculation) they'll assign a different point value for that unit to play in the DRI (soon to be HVC) system. Likewise the DRI deeded weeks could be assigned a point value to spend in the HGVC system. 

But what to do with pure trust points? Perhaps 1 HGVC point would convert to 100 DRI points to book in THE Club? Perhaps it will take 100 DRI trust points to equal 1 HGVC point. I'm pulling number our to the air here. I have calculated nothing.  That's seems easiest to me and with no disruption of any existing owners rights. And of course, they could charge a fee for the right to cross book systems. A joiner fee or, purchase an upgrade and get the right to book everything thrown in as a bonus (nothing for something essentially). 

OR, perhaps Hilton does take steps to develop a new trust. One in which HGVC owners can put their deeds into (for a price) and gain full ownership rights and booking windows to a group of resorts. And maybe they offer DRI owners the option to put their deeded weeks or trust points into that same trust, gaining full access to not only their DRI trust resorts but also the HGVC properties placed in that trust. Sort of a super trust if you will with access across both brands. 

The real fun begins when they make an official announcement with the rules and prices in writing. THAT'S when we begin to dissect the pro's and con's of the offer, costs and benefits of what changes are being offered.


----------



## dayooper (Aug 8, 2021)

dougp26364 said:


> My desire is that Hilton will offer some sort of reasonably priced avenue for owners of both companies access to each pool of inventory. I doubt this will be through blending both companies into one company, but through some sort of affiliation, much like THE Club allowed deeded week owners to convert their weeks to points, then reserve any available units from the trust, or other deeded weeks converted to points, at a specific date.
> 
> DRI did this by assigning deeded weeks a point value. Hilton also assigns deeded weeks a point value. For instance, I have a 2 bedroom, standard platinum season unit with an assigned value of 7,000 HGVC points. Perhaps (speculation) they'll assign a different point value for that unit to play in the DRI (soon to be HVC) system. Likewise the DRI deeded weeks could be assigned a point value to spend in the HGVC system.
> 
> But what to do with pure trust points? Perhaps 1 HGVC point would convert to 100 DRI points to book in THE Club? Perhaps it will take 100 DRI trust points to equal 1 HGVC point. I'm pulling number our to the air here. I have calculated nothing.  That's seems easiest to me and with no disruption of any existing owners rights. And of course, they could charge a fee for the right to cross book systems. A joiner fee or, purchase an upgrade and get the right to book everything thrown in as a bonus (nothing for something essentially).



Back on July 30, HGVC had their 2nd quarter earnings call and Mark Wang had a few clues on how they are looking at integration. He said that current HGVC and DRI won’t see any disruptions to their purchased rights. They are looking to start a new membership “starting from zero” that will be included in any upgrade or purchased separately. He never said anything about cross reservations, but I took it as that’s what the new membership will be. They will find a way to have a common currency between the 2 companies.

They will roll out the new membership in the 1st quarter of 2022 and will have a few of the DRI resorts rebranded HGVC (or HGV) at that time, too.


----------



## dougp26364 (Aug 8, 2021)

dayooper said:


> Back on July 30, HGVC had their 2nd quarter earnings call and Mark Wang had a few clues on how they are looking at integration. He said that current HGVC and DRI won’t see any disruptions to their purchased rights. They are looking to start a new membership “starting from zero” that will be included in any upgrade or purchased separately. He never said anything about cross reservations, but I took it as that’s what the new membership will be. They will find a way to have a common currency between the 2 companies.
> 
> They will roll out the new membership in the 1st quarter of 2022 and will have a few of the DRI resorts rebranded HGVC (or HGV) at that time, too.



If Marriott has taught me anything, it's that words spoken at earnings calls are nearly as much speculation as what's spoken at the round table.  I'm hopeful but I'm also not holding my breath.


----------



## easterntraveler (Aug 8, 2021)

pedro47 said:


> It could be worst. Hilton could have merge with Westgate???? LOL


There is NO "MERGER". HGVC purchased Diamond Resorts completely. They OWN DRI and DRI is GONE! HGVC is still here.


----------



## dougp26364 (Aug 8, 2021)

easterntraveler said:


> There is NO "MERGER". HGVC purchased Diamond Resorts completely. They OWN DRI and DRI is GONE! HGVC is still here.



True, but they will need to MERGE the systems for it to be of any value to owners


----------



## CalGalTraveler (Aug 8, 2021)

dougp26364 said:


> True, but they will need to MERGE the systems for it to be of any value to owners



FWIW...Same is true for MVC and Vistana (Westin/Sheraton)...that hasn't happened quickly.


----------



## dougp26364 (Aug 8, 2021)

CalGalTraveler said:


> FWIW...Same is true for MVC and Vistana (Westin/Sheraton)...that hasn't happened quickly.



And that’s why I may remain hopeful, but skeptical. 

Sure they say first quarter of next year, but there’s likely to be obstacles yet unseen.


----------



## dayooper (Aug 8, 2021)

dougp26364 said:


> And that’s why I may remain hopeful, but skeptical.
> 
> Sure they say first quarter of next year, but there’s likely to be obstacles yet unseen.



How is Marriott dealing with the Vistana merger? Are they keeping them separate or trying to integrate them as much as possible? They are keeping Hyatt separate, correct?

With HGVC, they are keeping HGVC separate from DRI, only creating a new membership that will link the 2. Maybe that’s how they are going to make this happen so fast.


----------



## dougp26364 (Aug 9, 2021)

dayooper said:


> How is Marriott dealing with the Vistana merger? Are they keeping them separate or trying to integrate them as much as possible? They are keeping Hyatt separate, correct?
> 
> With HGVC, they are keeping HGVC separate from DRI, only creating a new membership that will link the 2. Maybe that’s how they are going to make this happen so fast.



So far, ILG and MVC are still separate. The only internal exchange between the two is weeks exchanges thru II where there isn’t an exchange fee. 

MVC recently acquired Welk Resorts. The plan is to incorporate Welk/Hyatt and they will apparently stand separate from MVC/Vistana.

They keep saying a date that’s always 2 quarters away. The latest date I’ve heard is the first quarter of next year. It’s the same thing I’ve heard since the beginning. Always 2 or 3 quarters away. 

I had anticipated MVC would do something similar as what everyone anticipates Hilton doing, creating a separate club with a common currency. So far, that hasn’t happened. I can’t say why they did t take what seemed like the easier path other than that path wasn’t that easy after all. MVC found the integration to be considerably more difficult once the acquisition was complete. This is why the preliminary statements from Hilton cause me to yawn more than be excited. I’ve seen this dog and pony show. I have little reason to believe Hilton has found a better/easier path. If they rush it, they’ll mess it up and then they won’t realize their sales potential. DRI sort of did that when they over valued Polo Towers for a points stand point. For our 2 weeks, we received 15,500 points. It was beneficial to join THE Club but was detrimental to convert to one of the trusts. But of course converting Hilton owners into a trust isn’t probably high in their list. Still, they want to have incentive for DRI owners to upgrade to full Hilton membership, so they’ll need to get the balance correct. Just enough to join but not so much there’s no incentive to buy higher into full Hilton ownership.


----------



## Arusso (Aug 21, 2021)

dougp26364 said:


> So far, ILG and MVC are still separate. The only internal exchange between the two is weeks exchanges thru II where there isn’t an exchange fee.
> 
> MVC recently acquired Welk Resorts. The plan is to incorporate Welk/Hyatt and they will apparently stand separate from MVC/Vistana.
> 
> ...


Agree.  Why would HVC develop an integration plan that dilutes the product and revenue by assimilating or integrating DRI inventory?  From the comfort of my armchair, the strategy that makes the most sense is to develop a standard Hilton currency that could be used across a segment of the portfolio in addition to segregation of premium product that can only be accessible only through a separate tier (and membership level) to existing owners, or accessible to exchangers in premium systems.   Some marketing wizardry will emerge to announce the fact that they have figured out a way to monetized the hell out of their purchase of DRI.  This will make investors happy.


----------



## ccwu (Aug 21, 2021)

HGV snd DRI has two different structure. All based on points. DRI points maintenance fee is the same in the collection. Cost per point is pretty standard too. HGV is by deed, if you want to pay more in the front to get platinum season with premium unit, you pay much higher purchase price in the front to get more points per unit while maintenance fee is the same per sq footage. So a NYC residence 16,800 points cost is $1900 MF Vs 5200 points cost $1900 MF May be only 20% of the front purchase of platinum premier one. And they are paying the same MF. The longer you hold, the cost will be even out or about the same. But longer after that, the lower MF will be cheaper. Diamond does not give you choice to get lower MF. With HGV the deed is on the record of County clerk that you are holding 1/52 of the specific unit. They can not over sold of the prime location. While DRI, since say multiple properties in Hawaii collection, if every one wants Kaanapali beach club, it is hard to book home week even with platinum member 14 month advantage booking. Not in HGV, if your deed is in Lagoon tower in Hilton Hawaii village you certainly get your unit in 9-12 months window. For HGV and DRI are impossible to have a standard currency if you are talking about points and MF. Not all points are equal. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Mongoose (Aug 21, 2021)

ccwu said:


> HGV snd DRI has two different structure. All based on points. DRI points maintenance fee is the same in the collection. Cost per point is pretty standard too. HGV is by deed, if you want to pay more in the front to get platinum season with premium unit, you pay much higher purchase price in the front to get more points per unit while maintenance fee is the same per sq footage. So a NYC residence 16,800 points cost is $1900 MF Vs 5200 points cost $1900 MF May be only 20% of the front purchase of platinum premier one. And they are paying the same MF. The longer you hold, the cost will be even out or about the same. But longer after that, the lower MF will be cheaper. Diamond does not give you choice to get lower MF. With HGV the deed is on the record of County clerk that you are holding 1/52 of the specific unit. They can not over sold of the prime location. While DRI, since say multiple properties in Hawaii collection, if every one wants Kaanapali beach club, it is hard to book home week even with platinum member 14 month advantage booking. Not in HGV, if your deed is in Lagoon tower in Hilton Hawaii village you certainly get your unit in 9-12 months window. For HGV and DRI are impossible to have a standard currency if you are talking about points and MF. Not all points are equal.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Both have legacy weeks and points.  DRI has a reputation for relentlessly raising MFs.  HGVC also has affiliates which changes up the mix.  They would not have purchased DRI if they didn't have a plan to merge the systems.


----------



## GT75 (Aug 21, 2021)

Mongoose said:


> They would not have purchased DRI if they didn't have a plan to merge the systems.


I don't agree with that statement or maybe it depends upon what you mean by merge.   I don't believe that the two systems will be merged.    There may be some future product (which cost money) which will allow members of DRI and HGVC to cross-over to the other system.

Another point is that HGV is actually two systems, HGVC and bHC (by Hilton Club).     I understand that DRI is more than one system also but I don't know much about DRI.    I believe the Embarc is currently completely separate from the rest of DRI.


----------



## Mongoose (Aug 21, 2021)

GT75 said:


> I don't agree with that statement or maybe it depends upon what you mean by merge.   I don't believe that the two systems will be merged.    There may be some future product (which cost money) which will allow members of DRI and HGVC to cross-over to the other system.
> 
> Another point is that HGV is actually two systems, HGVC and bHC (by Hilton Club).     I understand that DRI is more than one system also but I don't know much about DRI.    I believe the Embarc is currently completely separate from the rest of DRI.


I certainly don’t have any inside knowledge.  We will see.


----------



## GT75 (Aug 21, 2021)

Mongoose said:


> I certainly don’t have any inside knowledge.


Neither do I, but speculation is fun.   I figure at this point, everyone's opinion could come to fruition.


----------



## pedro47 (Aug 22, 2021)

With HGV purchased of Diamond they have over 700, 000 owners.


----------



## ccwu (Aug 22, 2021)

I think the purchase is all for sales. HGV can sell to DRI member a piece (HVC- Hilton vacation club, a lower level than HGV) so DRI can cross over. So DRI can sell some to HGV to HHV members to cross over to use DRI resort. They can brag about more members, more profits from sale. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## CalGalTraveler (Aug 22, 2021)

HGVC's biggest competitor is MVC. It's hard to win business when your competitor offered up to 2x locations. DRI solves the optics of that comparison.

The revenue from DRI management fees also add to HGVC topline and transitions HGV from a takeover target to a top industry player.


----------



## seema (Aug 22, 2021)

I stayed at Embarq Whistler (through an II exchange) a couple of weeks ago.

The receptionist mentioned that DRI owners would not automatically exchange into Embarq as they could with other DRI resorts.
So I guess Embarq was a DRI affiliated resort, not a DRI (owned) resort per se.

The Embarq receptionist could not say what HGVC plans are for Embarq resorts, after taking over DRI.


----------



## dayooper (Aug 22, 2021)

seema said:


> I stayed at Embarq Whistler (through an II exchange) a couple of weeks ago.
> 
> The receptionist mentioned that DRI owners would not automatically exchange into Embarq as they could with other DRI resorts.
> So I guess Embarq was a DRI affiliated resort, not a DRI (owned) resort per se.
> ...



I believe Embarc was owned by DRI, but there was something contractually that prevented integration. Hopefully, Embarc will have the same ability to trade within the systems as they did before DRI bought them out.


----------

