# DRI suing Sumday Vacations and Timeshare Transfer company



## TUGBrian

Diamond Resorts Lawsuit Against Timeshare Exit Companies Will Proceed
					

/PRNewswire/ -- Diamond Resorts® ("Diamond"), a global leader in the hospitality, vacation ownership and entertainment industries, announces its lawsuit...




					www.prnewswire.com
				






> Diamond's complaint alleges Sumday Vacations, LLC and Standard Timeshare Transfers, LLC prey on and mislead timeshare owners, violating Florida and Nevada trade practices laws. According to the lawsuit, the defendants engage in a fraudulent "exit" scheme that instructs timeshare owners to execute fake deeds, purchase agreements, or other forms of transfer documents in order to create the appearance of a legitimate transfer of their timeshare ownership. Sumday Vacations, LLC and Standard Timeshare Transfers, LLC intend for these documents to trick timeshare owners into believing that, as a result of the defendant's service, their interest was "transferred" and they have no further financial obligations – which is false.


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## csalter2

Source: Diamond Resorts


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## Grammarhero

Holy crap.  Besides a possible backdating issue, Sumday always good to me.  Sumday doesn’t deserve this.


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## Grammarhero

PR Newswire costs at least $500 to post an article too.


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## tschwa2

Grammarhero said:


> Holy crap.  Besides an issue, Sumday always good to me.  Sumday doesn’t deserve this.


Sumday is part of this because they work closely with the postcard company.  It's the way they get their inventory, not the part of the business that sells timeshares.


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## Grammarhero

tschwa2 said:


> Sumday is part of this because they work closely with the postcard company.  It's the way they get their inventory, not the part of the business that sells timeshares.


I plead ignorance.  Of all my TS, Diamond is my least favorite.  I even like VAcation Villages more.


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## Panina

Does Diamond have an easy exit program?  Interesting it claims ‘misled’ as were not many of the buyers misled.

Don’t know if any issues have merit, they can but what if all the resale companies are sued, even the legit ones because of anything?  These big companies have the money and resources to push many out of business.


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## tschwa2

Panina said:


> Does Diamond have an easy exit program?  Interesting it claims ‘misled’ as were not many of the buyers misled.
> 
> Don’t know if any issues have merit, they can but what if all the resale companies are sued, even the legit ones because of anything?  These big companies have the money and resources to push many out of business.


Diamond has a program where you pay $1000 per contract if it is paid off and up to date and you bought retail and it isn't too close to the end of the year.  They can refuse you for any reason even if you meet all the criteria.


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## tschwa2

Grammarhero said:


> I plead ignorance.  Of all my TS, Diamond is my least favorite.  I even like VAcation Villages more.


I agree Diamond and Westgate are bottom of the barrel IMO.


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## moonstone

Panina said:


> Does Diamond have an easy exit program? Interesting it claims ‘misled’ as were not many of the buyers misled.



Also (as per a Diamond Owners Advocacy FB page) all new Diamond contracts have a clause in them that states the heirs of the owners will be responsible for maintenance fees in perpetuity!  I'd like to see that stand up in court where an heir is not only forced to accept ownership but keep paying the maintenance fees and then have their heirs forced to do the same.

~Diane


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## R.J.C.

Panina said:


> Does Diamond have an easy exit program?  Interesting it claims ‘misled’ as were not many of the buyers misled.
> 
> Don’t know if any issues have merit, they can but what if all the resale companies are sued, even the legit ones because of anything?  These big companies have the money and resources to push many out of business.



Define "easy".

It has an exit program but only developer purchased points qualify. It also costs $1,000 per contract to relinquish compared to only $250 per contract a little over a year ago which I consider highway robbery.


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## SteelerGal

Yet another reason not to visit their properties.


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## simpsontruckdriver

I've worked with Sumday, but both of my resales "failed" because HICV executed ROFR (they were less than $1 each). So, I wouldn't really call Sumday a Timeshare Exit Company, but it sounds like Standard is the exit division of the company while Sumday sells them. I looked one time and found that their closing division charges over $400 if someone not buying from Sumday needs a timeshare closing.

I'm thinking Standard should change their approach to having Sumday sell the timeshares. Of course, it's not cheap to take one, advertise it, close on it, transfer to the new owner and record it in the county, especially when they're worth $1.

TS


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## dioxide45

Grammarhero said:


> Holy crap.  Besides a possible backdating issue, Sumday always good to me.  Sumday doesn’t deserve this.


It would seem that the back dating is the issue. In your case, didn't the seller think they were out of their contract and refused to sign a new deed? Thus when they signed that deed over a year before you tried to buy it, they thought they were done and out of their obligation, which didn't seem to be the case. It seems that this is the crux of the lawsuit. I certainly don't agree with DRI tactics and they don't make it easy for people to get out of their ownership, but if as stated in the article is true, it would seem that Sumday is culpable to an extent?


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## Grammarhero

dioxide45 said:


> It would seem that the back dating is the issue. In your case, didn't the seller think they were out of their contract and refused to sign a new deed? Thus when they signed that deed over a year before you tried to buy it, they thought they were done and out of their obligation, which didn't seem to be the case. It seems that this is the crux of the lawsuit. I certainly don't agree with DRI tactics and they don't make it easy for people to get out of their ownership, but if as stated in the article is true, it would seem that Sumday is culpable to an extent?


Correct.


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## LannyPC

The title of this thread is a little misleading.  Timeshare Transfer is (or at least was a while back) a legitimate closing company based in Colorado if memory serves me correctly.  The name of the company being sued here is Standard Timeshare Transfers.


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## ddavid1073

I bought my first Wyndham contract (plus they threw in a free one!) from Sumday.  They were excellent to deal with.  I had no idea what happened once a contract was purchased.  They held my hand through the whole thing.  Hopefully they haven't done anything illegal and will be exonerated.


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## chapjim

This is rich!!  A developer complaining that Sumday tricks people!


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## skimeup

Interesting.  I owned at ILX, which went belly up in 2008 and Diamond purchased.  First thing they did was send out updates on their purchase with a box to check if you wanted to OPT OUT of being in their "club" - for about $200/month.  If you didn't read thoroughly and send back the opt out, you had an extra $200 or so added to your maintenance.  Best part - this didn't include all the properties in "the club"!    I got out the two bedroom by advertising it as NOT having to be part of the club and someone from Phoenix bought it to get out of the summer heat.  I was able to give back the one bedroom - at that time for fully paid maintenance and $250.  

I've bought from Sumday and the purchase went fine.  Don't think I paid more than $1 or so but the closing cost were high.  I figured they had to make money somewhere.  They were fine to deal with.  I suspect this is a SLAPP suit - meant to put them out of business due to the legal fees.  I actually was at a Hyatt presentation the other day (in Sedona) and told them about my experience with Diamond and the sales person sighed about how bad they are and what sleaze balls.  Of course he tried to sell me something with a 14% mortgage.  I explained I wasn't in the business of buying at my age (77) but that did not deter him.  At least I learned about the system and got out of there under 1 hour and a half.


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## needhelp

chapjim said:


> This is rich!!  A developer complaining that Sumday tricks people!


That's what I was thinking. Wouldn't this lawsuit open them up to lawsuits for their deceptive practices?


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## chapjim

needhelp said:


> That's what I was thinking. Wouldn't this lawsuit open them up to lawsuits for their deceptive practices?



No more than they are already.


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## dioxide45

chapjim said:


> This is rich!!  A developer complaining that Sumday tricks people!


They are claiming that Sumday is breaking the law! Do the developers break the law? Perhaps, but has anyone successfully received a judgement against them?


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## simpsontruckdriver

dioxide45 said:


> They are claiming that Sumday is breaking the law! Do the developers break the law? Perhaps, but has anyone successfully received a judgement against them?


Five years ago, Wyndham was sued for essentially predatory sales techniques. They lost.

TS


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## Maple_Leaf

tschwa2 said:


> I agree Diamond and Westgate are bottom of the barrel IMO.


Diamond and Wastegate are the fetid residue scraped from the bottom of a stinking barrel.


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## R.J.C.

Maple_Leaf said:


> Diamond and Wastegate are the fetid residue scraped from the bottom of a stinking barrel.



A little overboard don't you think?


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## theo

R.J.C. said:


> A little overboard don't you think?



I don't. I regard both of those entities as being considerably *lower* than whale excrement which has sunk to the ocean floor. YMMV.


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## tonyg

I've bought at least one week from Sumday Vacations. Not sure who did the closing, but everything went rather smoothly and I would have no qualms about buying through them again.
No question about Wastegate being what it's been called, and DRI is a descendant of a now defunct mismanaged resort group who's name currently eludes me.


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## dioxide45

tonyg said:


> I've bought at least one week from Sumday Vacations. Not sure who did the closing, but everything went rather smoothly and I would have no qualms about buying through them again.
> No question about Wastegate being what it's been called, and DRI is a descendant of a now defunct mismanaged resort group who's name currently eludes me.


Sunterra?


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## dgalati

simpsontruckdriver said:


> I've worked with Sumday, but both of my resales "failed" because HICV executed ROFR (they were less than $1 each). So, I wouldn't really call Sumday a Timeshare Exit Company, but it sounds like Standard is the exit division of the company while Sumday sells them. I looked one time and found that their closing division charges over $400 if someone not buying from Sumday needs a timeshare closing.
> 
> I'm thinking Standard should change their approach to having Sumday sell the timeshares. Of course, it's not cheap to take one, advertise it, close on it, transfer to the new owner and record it in the county, especially when they're worth $1.
> 
> TS


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## dgalati

I bought many Wyndham deeds at a $0 purchase price. The price was with all closing and resort transfer fees paid by seller. If you add in all closing and transfer fees that are paid by seller the  net value of a timshare is a negative $500 on the open market.


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## dioxide45

dgalati said:


> I bought many Wyndham deeds at a $0 purchase price. The price was with all closing and resort transfer fees paid by seller. If you add in all closing and transfer fees that are paid by seller the  net value of a timeshare is a negative $500 on the open market.


Or if someone pays a postcard company several thousands of dollars, then the value could be considered to be even less.


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## Mongoose

I've used Sumday several times and never had an issue.  I owned DRI and sold it because of their business practices.  I don't trust them.


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## dgalati

dioxide45 said:


> Or if someone pays a postcard company several thousands of dollars, then the value could be considered to be even less.



Yes many deeds that I bought from Sumday  the sellers had paid exit firms $4000 ++.  Owners were paying to get out from under the financial burden of paying monthly maintenance fees.


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## bogey21

Mongoose said:


> I've used Sumday several times and never had an issue.



Over the years I did maybe 15 transactions with Sumday and found them reputable.  The couple of times there were minor issues they immediately addressed them...

George


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## R.J.C.

theo said:


> I don't. I regard both of those entities as being considerably *lower* than whale excrement which has sunk to the ocean floor. YMMV.



While each person can have their own opinion, I find the resort staff at all of the Diamond resorts I have visited to be great. Sales personnel is about 50/50. Don't claim an entire company is poor because of a few employees.


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## R.J.C.

dioxide45 said:


> Sunterra?



Diamond isn't a descendant of Sunterra. Diamond was it's own company and Sunterra was it's first major acquisition.


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## theo

R.J.C. said:


> While each person can have their own opinion, I find the resort staff at all of the Diamond resorts I have visited to be great. Sales personnel is about 50/50. Don't claim an entire company is poor because of a few employees.



With all due respect, peoples' negative opinions (including mine) about certain specific "chains" has *nothing* to do with "resort staff" (or resort quality) and virtually *everything* to do with their punitive, very arbitrary and onerous corporate policies and practices.
By that measure, Wastegate (and Diamond Resorts) have worked hard to *earn* their respective negative images and reputations.


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## R.J.C.

theo said:


> With all due respect, peoples' negative opinions (including mine) about certain specific "chains" has *nothing* to do with "resort staff" (or resort quality) and virtually *everything* to do with their punitive, arbitrary and onerous corporate policies and practices.
> By that measure, Wastegate (and Diamond Resorts) have worked hard to *earn* their respective negative images and reputations.



I can't disagree with that, especially as of late with Diamond. But so many people run around hollering "Diamond sucks" without clarifying what exactly sucks giving the impression that the company as a whole sucks instead of just certain parts of it.


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## buddym811

I haven't been able to reach Sumday Vacations since the lawsuit was announced.   I just sent in paperwork to have them sell my timeshare on March 8th and have already paid them to get rid of it.  I was able to leave a phone message on March 10th but now their phones are disconnected and their website is mostly down for "site maintenance".   I paid through Paypal so I am wondering if I should contact them and see what my options are.   I'm guessing they decided to close business because otherwise why disconnect the phones and the website?


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## dioxide45

buddym811 said:


> I haven't been able to reach Sumday Vacations since the lawsuit was announced.   I just sent in paperwork to have them sell my timeshare on March 8th and have already paid them to get rid of it.  I was able to leave a phone message on March 10th but now their phones are disconnected and their website is mostly down for "site maintenance".   I paid through Paypal so I am wondering if I should contact them and see what my options are.   I'm guessing they decided to close business because otherwise why disconnect the phones and the website?


It also doesn't look like they have any weeks listed on Ebay anymore. Owner @JeffBrown is a TUG BBS member, perhaps try reaching out to him via PM.


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## Mongoose

buddym811 said:


> I haven't been able to reach Sumday Vacations since the lawsuit was announced.   I just sent in paperwork to have them sell my timeshare on March 8th and have already paid them to get rid of it.  I was able to leave a phone message on March 10th but now their phones are disconnected and their website is mostly down for "site maintenance".   I paid through Paypal so I am wondering if I should contact them and see what my options are.   I'm guessing they decided to close business because otherwise why disconnect the phones and the website?


I wonder if its the lawsuit or COVID-19?


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## csxjohn

Mongoose said:


> I wonder if its the lawsuit or COVID-19?


Either way you would think a phone call would go through.  I've been trying to reach them also and did send an email today.

info@sumdayvacations.com


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## Mongoose

csxjohn said:


> Either way you would think a phone call would go through.  I've been trying to reach them also and did send an email today.
> 
> info@sumdayvacations.com


Their website is down for maintenance.  Not a good sign.


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## Grammarhero

@Fredflintstone @goaliedave @R.J.C. @theo @Mongoose @Maple_Leaf 
I rate my ownerships as follows out of five:
1) Wyndham: 5.  inexpensive to book short trips.  Easy corona cancellation.  Monthly bills make MF payments easier.
2) vacation village: 4.  More expensive than Wyndham to book short stays, with RCI/II exchange fees.  Difficult corona cancellation.  Yearly bills make MF payments harder at beginning of the year.  They have great II traders, particularly with short stay exchange.
3) diamond: 3.  Didn’t let me trade in II saying: 1) I had resale, 2) my ownership was too close to 2021 for II deposit, 3) I couldn’t backdoor  6.5k DRI pts with II deposit.  On the positive side, I only pay $700 MF for a tier 3 deposit, while I’ve seen 6.5k DRI pts have $1.2k MF.  DX deposits get five years to use.


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## simpsontruckdriver

Isn't there a person here on TUG that works for Sumday? Personally, I think it has to do with Coronavirus, since a lot of non-essential businesses have shut down temporarily. Sumday isn't considered an "essential" business, so I would give them some slack for the next 30-ish days.

TS


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## dioxide45

simpsontruckdriver said:


> Isn't there a person here on TUG that works for Sumday? Personally, I think it has to do with Coronavirus, since a lot of non-essential businesses have shut down temporarily. Sumday isn't considered an "essential" business, so I would give them some slack for the next 30-ish days.
> 
> TS


Yes @JeffBrown is the owner/founder/CEO, not sure the exact title. However, Coronavirus doesn't infect websites and that doesn't explain why the website is messed up and still not fixed after all this time.


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## 55plus

I purchased most of my resale through Sumday. I'd do it again. They were very professional and good to me.


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## Kozman

R.J.C. said:


> A little overboard don't you think?


No!


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## R.J.C.

Kozman said:


> No!



Yeah.....okay.


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## Stephon125

R.J.C. said:


> A little overboard don't you think?


I need to talk to sumdayvacations how can i reach them with the phone line down and the website is down


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## dioxide45

Stephon125 said:


> I need to talk to sumdayvacations how can i reach them with the phone line down and the website is down


Unfortunately you might be out of luck.


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## gfchris82

I also purchased a lot of timeshares through Sumday and ALWAYS had a great experience and fast transfers. I recently purchased one late February... they always would send a purchase agreement but this time, they sent a Power of Attorney agreement instead. I thought it was odd, but since I've had dozens of great transfers through Sumday, I did as they asked. But that was the last I heard of them. I've emailed twice in the last couple of weeks without a reply. Their website is down, phones have been disconnected, their facebook page is no longer there. It appears as if they closed down. It's probably cheaper for them to shut down and start a new business than it would be to fight this ridiculous lawsuit. I've read the lawsuit and it's complete non-sense. There's a lot of exaggerations and false pretenses throughout the lawsuit. Feel free to read it here: https://www.docketbird.com/court-do...on-Development-LLC/flmd-6:2019-cv-00982-00009


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## csalter2

gfchris82 said:


> I also purchased a lot of timeshares through Sumday and ALWAYS had a great experience and fast transfers. I recently purchased one late February... they always would send a purchase agreement but this time, they sent a Power of Attorney agreement instead. I thought it was odd, but since I've had dozens of great transfers through Sumday, I did as they asked. But that was the last I heard of them. I've emailed twice in the last couple of weeks without a reply. Their website is down, phones have been disconnected, their facebook page is no longer there. It appears as if they closed down. It's probably cheaper for them to shut down and start a new business than it would be to fight this ridiculous lawsuit. I've read the lawsuit and it's complete non-sense. There's a lot of exaggerations and false pretenses throughout the lawsuit. Feel free to read it here: https://www.docketbird.com/court-do...on-Development-LLC/flmd-6:2019-cv-00982-00009



I am not sure why you think it’s bogus or ridiculous when so many owners have been taken advantage of by these companies. They may have some legitimate parts of their business, but obviously there was enough evidence by Diamond from examples of owners who were fed false promises and left Diamond holding the bag. Remember, we owners (I’m not sure if you’re one) pick up the bill on those bogus promises that become foreclosures or non maintenance fees properties along with Diamond. I don’t feel sorry for Sumday at all.


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## tschwa2

csalter2 said:


> I am not sure why you think it’s bogus or ridiculous when so many owners have been taken advantage of by these companies. They may have some legitimate parts of their business, but obviously there was enough evidence by Diamond from examples of owners who were fed false promises and left Diamond holding the bag. Remember, we owners (I’m not sure if you’re one) pick up the bill on those bogus promises that become foreclosures or non maintenance fees properties along with Diamond. I don’t feel sorry for Sumday at all.


I wonder if Diamond has to pay the MF on weeks taken back through transitions and if Diamond applies the $1000 toward those fees or if they keep those as administrative fees and put all the onus on owners for those weeks and points that they take back.


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## csalter2

tschwa2 said:


> I wonder if Diamond has to pay the MF on weeks taken back through transitions and if Diamond applies the $1000 toward those fees or if they keep those as administrative fees and put all the onus on owners for those weeks and points that they take back.



I would believe administrative fees. We’d be foolish to think otherwise.


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## T_R_Oglodyte

tschwa2 said:


> I wonder if Diamond has to pay the MF on weeks taken back through transitions and if Diamond applies the $1000 toward those fees or if they keep those as administrative fees and put all the onus on owners for those weeks and points that they take back.


When I have poked around a bit (for example, looking at financial statements from resorts), nothing has caused me to question whether Diamond is paying MFs for units where they are listed as the owner or record. 

I am pretty sure that the $1000 Transitions fee goes into their pockets and not the resorts.  But let's also be equal-minded about this.  From the point of view of the resort this is merely a change in ownership - old owner changes to new owner.  That isn't any different than if that same owner sold the unit to some purchaser using an ad in the TUG marketplace.  All the resort sees is a change in ownership. They really don't care about what the transaction details are between buyer and seller.  So there isn't any reason for the resort to treat a transfer to DRI differently from a transfer to any other owner.  So if you think that the resort should garner a fee because someone transfers ownership to Diamond, shouldn't the resort collect the same fee if someone sells a unit to someone other than Diamond?

And it's even simpler if Diamond takes over a trust ownership.  In that case nothing happens at the resort - a trust sale doesn't affect ownership at the resort at all.

************

The other situation is that if the ownership is Collection ownership (aka trust) points.


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## praisebandman

R.J.C. said:


> A little overboard don't you think?



Is there anyway we can find out the current status of this lawsuit?  I had an offer from Sumday Vacations to transfer my timeshare out of my name before this news was released and Sumday's website is no longer operational so I don't know if they are still in business.


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## dioxide45

praisebandman said:


> Is there anyway we can find out the current status of this lawsuit?  I had an offer from Sumday Vacations to transfer my timeshare out of my name before this news was released and Sumday's website is no longer operational so I don't know if they are still in business.


If the week is still in your name, I would look at different avenues to try to get rid of your timeshare.


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## praisebandman

dioxide45 said:


> If the week is still in your name, I would look at different avenues to try to get rid of your timeshare.



Yep; I just listed it on the TUG Forum, "Free Timeshare Giveaways and Bargains".  Hopefully, someone will take it off my hands.


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## praisebandman

dioxide45 said:


> If the week is still in your name, I would look at different avenues to try to get rid of your timeshare.



Yep; I just listed it on the TUG Forum, "Free Timeshare Giveaways and Bargains".  Hopefully, someone will take it off my hands.


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## pedro47

Are WasteGate and Diamond resorts  that horrible or is it their management policies and their high pressure sales staff  policies?


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## bogey21

Stephon125 said:


> I need to talk to sumday vacations how can i reach them with the phone line down and the website is down



Looks like they have gone out of business.  If so, I wish them well as I had many transactions with them over the years and found them honorable and straight forward...

George


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## geist1223

pedro47 said:


> Are WasteGate and Diamond resorts  that horrible or is it their management policies and their high pressure sales staff  policies?



Do not know about WasteGate but I have enjoyed every DRI Resort at which we have stayed. The Sales Staff is aggressive. Management Policies are ok.


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## Bailey#1

praisebandman said:


> Is there anyway we can find out the current status of this lawsuit?  I had an offer from Sumday Vacations to transfer my timeshare out of my name before this news was released and Sumday's website is no longer operational so I don't know if they are still in business.


Try greatwayservices.com  they did the closing when I bought from Sumday about 6 years ago..


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## TUGBrian

some updates to this....guess the relationship with Timeshare Exit Team is now public as its mentioned in the press release below









						Diamond Resorts' Legal Victory Shuts Down Fraudulent Timeshare Exit Companies
					

/PRNewswire/ -- Diamond Resorts™, a global leader in the hospitality, vacation ownership and entertainment industries, announces today another legal victory in...




					www.prnewswire.com


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## dioxide45

Sounds like they were setting up viking ships to unload those timeshares that couldn't be given away, even for free.


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## CPNY

Grammarhero said:


> Holy crap.  Besides a possible backdating issue, Sumday always good to me.  Sumday doesn’t deserve this.


I had a backdating issue as well. Any reason for that? I purchased something in 2020 but the deed was signed and dated in 2019. I asked about it, they gave some story and that’s all I know.


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## TheTimeTraveler

It's unbelievable that they were able to continue taking advantage of consumers for as long as they had.   What I now have to wonder if this is the beginning of the end of these so called "timeshare relief" type companies.

It's good to see something positive happening, and it may be a wake up call for everyone to see.




.


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## dioxide45

CPNY said:


> I had a backdating issue as well. Any reason for that? I purchased something in 2020 but the deed was signed and dated in 2019. I asked about it, they gave some story and that’s all I know.


Backdating is because they had the seller sign a blank deed when they met with them and the seller paid them lots of money. Prior owner signs blank second page, when you buy it they match that up with a first page with your info as the buyer.


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## dioxide45

Grammarhero said:


> Holy crap.  Besides a possible backdating issue, Sumday always good to me.  Sumday doesn’t deserve this.


All of these companies tend to "be good" to buyers. They don't want to set off too many red flags. It doesn't mean what they are doing is legal or ethical.

Of course, if the developers would setup legitimate buyback options and work to help retain resale value for the products they sell, all would be good.

Of course Diamond and others aren't doing this for the good of their owners. They are doing it so they can more easily take back cheap product to sell all over again. They see the flood of resales as a deterrent to their sales. They want to crush that flow of resale timeshares so they can convince people to instead give the week back to them, or in the case of some companies like DRI, have the owner pay them instead of an exit company to "give" their timeshare back.


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## TheTimeTraveler

TUGBrian said:


> some updates to this....guess the relationship with Timeshare Exit Team is now public as its mentioned in the press release below
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Diamond Resorts' Legal Victory Shuts Down Fraudulent Timeshare Exit Companies
> 
> 
> /PRNewswire/ -- Diamond Resorts™, a global leader in the hospitality, vacation ownership and entertainment industries, announces today another legal victory in...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.prnewswire.com




Of course it is out and out fraud to transfer ownership of 100 non desirable "junk" units to someone who has absolutely no means to pay annual fees for them;  it's not rocket science to figure out what is going on here and the fraud sticks out like a sore thumb!

I'm confident that the person who took on 100 units may have been receiving a little cash on the side for these illegitimate transactions and the stink became too obvious to a lot of people....   Who knows, the person who received these 100 units could even have been homeless!



.



.


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## RX8

“ Washington Attorney General Files Preliminary Injunction Against Timeshare Exit Team
This month, Attorney General Ferguson filed a motion for preliminary injunction requesting that Timeshare Exit Team be required to show proof that the company has enough in its reserves to cover the 100% money-back guarantee it has promised clients who have yet to receive any service. According to the filing, nearly half of Timeshare Exit Team's more than 32,000 contracted customers are still waiting for resolutions and more than 4,600 customers have been waiting for three years or more.”

If Timeshare Exit team is required to show proof of reserves for 16,000 customers and assuming an average of $4000 upfront from each customer their bank account is going to need to show $64 million.


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## Arusso

dioxide45 said:


> All of these companies tend to "be good" to buyers. They don't want to set off too many red flags. It doesn't mean what they are doing is legal or ethical.
> 
> Of course, if the developers would setup legitimate buyback options and work to help retain resale value for the products they sell, all would be good.
> 
> Of course Diamond and others aren't doing this for the good of their owners. They are doing it so they can more easily take back cheap product to sell all over again. They see the flood of resales as a deterrent to their sales. They want to crush that flow of resale timeshares so they can convince people to instead give the week back to them, or in the case of some companies like DRI, have the owner pay them instead of an exit company to "give" their timeshare back.


Spot on.....The reason for the very existence of these "Exit" companies is because developers have used an outdated  business model of selling product themselves at retail for decades.  While the resale market has existed for years, it made zero impact on developers until now when a significant number of them have been "stiffed" at their own game.  As you have correctly noted, there is inherently nothing wrong with what these "exit" companies want to do.  The problem seems to be that the companies in question do not perform as they advertise nor do they have the ability to refund monies for failure to perform.  

Secondly, while the TS business model was never intended to operate as a standard real estate model, it is nevertheless based on real estate - which has an inherent value.  The past (and unfortunately still current) business model renders the inherent value of the real estate virtually worthless to the consumer.  By not having supported the value through a resale market perpetuates this outcome.  That said and going forward, developers are faced with a different problem  New customers, the so-called "millennials" are not likely buyers in the traditional concept of ownership.  They want access and useage at a competitive price and unless developers rethink the current business model, alternatives will continue to grow.


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## bjones9942

Wow!  The whole issue could be solved overnight if three things were in place.  First, TUG is listed in the sellers contracts (in a prominent place) as a tool for new owners to use.  Second, recession was bumped to 30 days across the board.  Third, deedbacks were accepted by all properties as long as the contracts were current.


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## Arusso

bjones9942 said:


> Wow!  The whole issue could be solved overnight if three things were in place.  First, TUG is listed in the sellers contracts (in a prominent place) as a tool for new owners to use.  Second, recession was bumped to 30 days across the board.  Third, deedbacks were accepted by all properties as long as the contracts were current.


You are correct.  I would just observe that contractually listing just one "forum" (no matter how much we love TUG) and stipulating such could be problematic because there are multiple venues (print and on-line) through which a consumer could get information.  This would contractually favor one business entiry over another.  Certainly extending the rescission period to allow the buyer to research the purchase is important.  I would also also add a statement that the buyer be given resource information directing buyers to a third party legal resource site listing attorneys licensed in the local jurisdiction that are competent in TS transactions.   At this point, the consumer would be fully protected.  Of course, deed back programs are in everyone's interest.  Developers are interested in short term sales and were never concerned about the long term impact on the industry.  I was told so by a very revealing conversation I had years ago when I asked a TS executive why their industry did not support the inherent value of the real estate by offering direct resales.  The second answer had to do with the tactic of "churning" existing owners to entice them to buy more weeks, points, etc.  But, I digress.....


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## dioxide45

bjones9942 said:


> Wow!  The whole issue could be solved overnight if three things were in place.  First, TUG is listed in the sellers contracts (in a prominent place) as a tool for new owners to use.  Second, recession was bumped to 30 days across the board.  Third, deedbacks were accepted by all properties as long as the contracts were current.


Developer sales would drop like a rock and the whole business model would come crashing down as it would no longer be sustainable.


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## LannyPC

dioxide45 said:


> Of course Diamond and others aren't doing this for the good of their owners. They are doing it so they can more easily take back cheap product to sell all over again.



Another reason is that a lot of these unwanted TSs end up back in Diamond's hands anyway because of all the defaults and Viking Ship operations.  With these, Diamond and the resorts have to go through the expense and rigours of foreclosure.  Accepting TSs back through programs such as Transitions just eliminates some of the expenses and hassles of foreclosures.


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## LannyPC

Arusso said:


> The second answer had to do with the tactic of "churning" existing owners to entice them to buy more weeks, points, etc.  But, I digress.....



I actually thought of this a while ago and thought this: Why not give owners a "bulk discount" on MFs?  For instance for argument's sake, let's say MFs are $1000 per unit week.  Offer existing owners a discount on other weeks they buy.  So the next couple they buy, they would be charged say, $800.  Any ones they buy after that would be about $600 in MFs.  If they ever sell or relinquish ownership of any weeks, they would lose the discounts on the the ones with the greatest discounts first.  All weeks must legally be in the same owner's name.

This way, some of the weeks that were sitting there without any owner paying MFs would now get at least some money in there.


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## TheTimeTraveler

bjones9942 said:


> Wow!  The whole issue could be solved overnight if three things were in place.  First, TUG is listed in the sellers contracts (in a prominent place) as a tool for new owners to use.  Second, recession was bumped to 30 days across the board.  Third, deedbacks were accepted by all properties as long as the contracts were current.





A great idea, however the developers don't want to ever have to deal a second time around with undesirable weeks such as mud season in skiing areas, hurricane weeks in hurricane prone areas, etc.

Hawaii weeks are desirable any time during the year.



.


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## pedro47

January and February weeks in Virginia or North Carolina.


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## csxjohn

This explains why Sumday Vacations' website is down and Dave Ramsey fans won't like to see his Timeshare Exit Team is under the gun too.


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## csxjohn

In following a link in the article, "TimeshareCancellationAwareness.com." it appears that Diamond works with owners who need to get out.  Does anyone know what type of plan they have?


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## geist1223

csxjohn said:


> In following a link in the article, "TimeshareCancellationAwareness.com." it appears that Diamond works with owners who need to get out.  Does anyone know what type of plan they have?



If I remember correctly the first rule is that you had to make the purchase from the Developer, no resell. The Contract has to be paid off. Maintenance Fees have to be current. Then you pay them $1,000 per Contract. Each purchase from Diamond is a separate Contract.


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## LannyPC

csxjohn said:


> ...it appears that Diamond works with owners who need to get out.  Does anyone know what type of plan they have?



There's a sticky thread at the top of this forum called DRI Now Accepting Deedbacks.  You can read the details there.


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## pierrepierre

Yes, all maintenance fees paid in full & purchased from Developer....then Transitions or Loss Mitigation, whatever they are calling it.  When contacting Diamond, fee was specified according to what state contract was purchased in, as each state has its own policy......or, possibly it was in the contract  purchased.  It is true, you lose all points - whether 300 or 83,000 pts., they all go back to Diamond.  BUT, whatever you do, do not eliminate any emails, (print them too) and document all phone calls...date/time/person.  It will pay off and possibly save you money...it did me! When life changes, including the past 7 months....closure is closure & what price does one put on peace of Mind!!!???  Less stress is a good thing.....


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## dioxide45

geist1223 said:


> If I remember correctly the first rule is that you had to make the purchase from the Developer, no resell. The Contract has to be paid off. Maintenance Fees have to be current. Then you pay them $1,000 per Contract. Each purchase from Diamond is a separate Contract.


So Diamond is just looking to try to shut down the competition.


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## DannyTS

It is probably working, the number of timeshare listings on Ebay has plummeted in the last few months.


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## wrk2travelalot

I have been timeshare members with
my family many years.  We love the timeshare experience and done right you cam travel the world-stay at wonderful resorts.

Yes-timeshare companies-especially those in the US and EU should be mandated to have set action policies for anyone wanting to leave their timeshare obligations even if it is not paid off.  We were DRI members for years.   

I am curious at the accusations DRI made about the timeshare exit companies.  DRI tactics for selling are very similar.  I have a younger friend (we are in our 70s) who my husband and I gave time at Cabo Azul for their honeymoon.  We told them not to go to any presentations...you all know the rest....this young couple bought a DRI TS week that was extremely over priced-the sales pitch contained much bogus information.  This couple could not afford the TS they bought as points.  DRI will not take it back as the week has not been paid off..told them this was their issues as they had 5 days in the beginning not to do the deal.   This couple sold their house moved into a cheaper house with their children trying to get out of the TS debt.

There should be some way couples who
financially have life changes or with youth-poor financial decisions can get out if these TS.  We do need honest TS exit companies because the TS companies are not going to help you exit your TS agreement.


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## eggmansr71

wrk2travelalot - I agree completely.   The good with all the timeshare exit companies is the deed back didn't exist for Diamond until this.  We need regulation in the industry that any and all fully paid timeshares can be given back for the cost of filing (capped) and deed transfer fees.  Then if you are an owner and still have payments you can give back at a reduced set cost.  All of this would clean up this part of the industry and the exit companies would go away overnight, but there is no way the timeshare companies will do it without being forced to.


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## bnoble

wrk2travelalot said:


> We do need honest TS exit companies because the TS companies are not going to help you exit your TS agreement.


What would an "honest TS exit company" look like? Unless the resort is RTU or has a sunset clause, ownership is contractually perpetual. If there isn't a market for anyone to buy it, or the developer/management company/HOA isn't willing to take it back, what would a third party possibly do?


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## pedro47

Who does DRI recommend to DRI ts owners, who did not purchased directly from DRI and do not  have a mortgage or have a mortgage  ?


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## LannyPC

wrk2travelalot said:


> I am curious at the accusations DRI made about the timeshare exit companies.  DRI tactics for selling are very similar.



The accusations against the exit companies are that, either through the Viking Ship method or the unwitting foreclosure, the TSs end up back with the resorts (actually, the resorts' HOAs) and that DRI and/or the resorts must pick up the costs of foreclosure.

I too dislike the two aforementioned methods that the exit companies use but on the bright side, it essentially forced companies like DRI, Westgate, and Wyndham, etc., to implement their respective deed back programs.


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## TUGBrian

pedro47 said:


> Who does DRI recommend to DRI ts owners, who did not purchased directly from DRI...?



this is an outstanding question.


although the mortgage limitation applies to just about every timeshare as they all require that to be paid off/transferred/etc before a deedback will be granted to my knowledge.  not just a DRI specific situation.


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## TUGBrian

oo, they even have a video


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## pedro47

pedro47 said:


> Who does DRI recommend to DRI ts owners, who did not purchased directly from DRI and do not  have a mortgage or have a mortgage  ?



I have added some words to my original post.


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## pedro47

*Who does DRI recommend to DRI timeshare owners, who did not purchased directly from Diamond Resort and do not have a mortgage?

They purchase a resale Diamond property. *


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## harveyhaddixfan

TUGBrian said:


> oo, they even have a video



Close to the end “a safe way to exit, without stealing their money.” I guess charging $1000 to get out isn’t considered stealing?


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## TheTimeTraveler

harveyhaddixfan said:


> Close to the end “a safe way to exit, without stealing their money.” I guess charging $1000 to get out isn’t considered stealing?




Depends how you look at it. 

If you're saving $1,500 a year in maintenance fees then that's a savings of $15,000 over a ten year time span.   Money which stays in your pocket! 

I'll gladly pay their $1000 one time fee to save ongoing maintenance fees on something I have no further interest in......



.


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## JeffC

The developers problem is how do you sell a product at full freight when the real market value is often negative. Having an easy out for retail buyers puts the cost of the deed back onto existing owners in the form of higher MF's. The switch to points helps but the underlying problem remains. Too many contracts/weeks have negative resale value. The developers primary source of profit is the sale of new contracts. They can either build new properties or recycle old ones. Right now recycling is cheaper but they can't recycle the potential volume of deed backs with new sales. Placing restrictions on deed backs and increasing the cost to the existing owner is their way of keeping the volume down. I've always felt that the developers are unfazed by MF defaults, they just pass the cost onto the other owners. They charge the same amount for managing a resort regardless of the % of defaults. It's only when defaults reach the point that existing owners get sticker shock do they react. Charging multiples of the MF's to deed back the dog weeks is the only way to maintain the scheme. The big name's can set a floor thru ROFR. Wyndham will take contracts/weeks that they know can be sold at a profit but not the true dogs. The demise of the upfront fee and viking ship PCC's doesn't change the facts. Timeshares are a uniquely difficult product to use. While we here are well educated in how to maximize our use the majority of owner's don't have a clue. If they're lucky they can get accommodations at resorts where the cost to rent equals their MF's. This doesn't take into account the opportunity loss on the retail price they paid. The current TS model may not be sustainable over the long term given the changing demographics. Younger people are much more averse to the impulse buy razzle dazzle of the TS salesman. As we age out who's going to replace us. Lagging sales to younger families and the increase in defaults is the future. Hey but we can still enjoy it while it's here.


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## Maple_Leaf

pedro47 said:


> *Who does DRI recommend to DRI timeshare owners, who did not purchased directly from Diamond Resort and do not have a mortgage?
> 
> They purchase a resale Diamond property. *


And Diamond still manages the property.  It's not like they developed the property and then moved on, leaving it to the owners to hire an independent management company.  Diamond still controls the ongoing operations of the property.


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## Maple_Leaf

harveyhaddixfan said:


> Close to the end “a safe way to exit, without stealing their money.” I guess charging $1000 to get out isn’t considered stealing?


They steal only from their preferred owners, i.e. those owners who bought from Diamond.


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## peaceandquiet

Maple_Leaf said:


> Diamond and Wastegate are the fetid residue scraped from the bottom of a stinking barrel.


I am actually doing something about it. Where do you live? I am organizing nationwide protests. If you study Boston Battery Warf it will work.


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