# Is it possible to get out of timeshare mortgage at Orange Lake?



## Chrystalann24 (May 7, 2019)

Hello,  I stumbled upon this group when I was looking for information and I'm hoping someone can help me.  My boyfriend and his father purchased a timeshare at Orange Lake 9 years ago.  My boyfriend spoke with his father in November and asked him if he could take over the payments because he had some extra expenses (starting a new business) and couldn't make the mortgage payments.  His father agreed (they live in different cities 9 hrs apart).  We found out a couple weeks ago that his father has not been paying the mortgage and now of course we are very far behind on it.  We've been talking about not keeping it as neither one of them have used it the last couple years and the financial burden on us right now is almost too much.  Is there a way for my boyfriend to be able to get out of this timeshare mortgage?  I don't believe foreclosure is an option as it would affect his credit (even though we're Canadian).  What options does he have?  Thank you in advance.


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## Talent312 (May 7, 2019)

There's no way he can transfer the TS to a 3rd party while in default.
But the TS company may let him surrender the TS "in lieu of foreclosure."
Tell them it's their choice: Take it back and write-off the debt, or foreclose.

Ultimately, to discharge the debt, he can file Bankruptcy.
Foreclosure or Bankruptcy will be a major hit to his credit rating, so it should
be a last resort. He may want to consult an attorney when faced with either.
.


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## OldGuy (May 7, 2019)

The most common advice from many here is _Just Sell It._


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## Luanne (May 7, 2019)

OldGuy said:


> The most common advice from many here is _Just Sell It._


How easily do you think it will sell if there is still a mortgage?


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## Passepartout (May 7, 2019)

Chrystalann24 said:


> Is there a way for my boyfriend to be able to get out of this timeshare mortgage?  I don't believe foreclosure is an option as it would affect his credit (even though we're Canadian).  What options does he have?  Thank you in advance.


The quick answer, is no. There is no easy way out of a mortgage. What were they thinking? That it would just be forgotten and the obligation forgiven? I assume that whomever signed the contract were adults, and realized that signing a contract has obligations and repercussions for non-compliance.

On the other hand, since you are Canadian, the bad credit report may not cross the border. If it has been several years of default (not paying) whatever damage there is should already show on their credit report. Contacting the timeshare outfit about surrendering the deed in lieu of foreclosure may just 'wake the dragon' and cause them renewed efforts to collect the arrearage, penalties, and get them back into the roles of dues-paying owners.

Good luck, going forward whatever they choose to do.

Jim


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## OldGuy (May 7, 2019)

Luanne said:


> How easily do you think it will sell if there is still a mortgage?



Unlikely

I was just telling you what many here would give you as advice.

I know it's not as simple as that.

Not that it matters, but we first toured OLCC in 1989, and I/we have had many, many contacts since.


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## Chrystalann24 (May 7, 2019)

Passepartout said:


> The quick answer, is no. There is no easy way out of a mortgage. What were they thinking? That it would just be forgotten and the obligation forgiven? I assume that whomever signed the contract were adults, and realized that signing a contract has obligations and repercussions for non-compliance.
> 
> On the other hand, since you are Canadian, the bad credit report may not cross the border. If it has been several years of default (not paying) whatever damage there is should already show on their credit report. Contacting the timeshare outfit about surrendering the deed in lieu of foreclosure may just 'wake the dragon' and cause them renewed efforts to collect the arrearage, penalties, and get them back into the roles of dues-paying owners.
> 
> ...



First of all it, it hasn't been years of not paying, it's been 5 months.  Second of all, his father is the primary contact on the acct and they just recently contacted my boyfriend to let him know that his father hasn't been paying the mortgage so.  Of course we know that he signed a contract and are responsible for it, that's why we're trying to figure out options since it is behind and if we should even keep it at this point. We're not running away from our responsibilities


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## Passepartout (May 7, 2019)

Chrystalann24 said:


> First of all it, it hasn't been years of not paying, it's been 5 months.  Second of all, his father is the primary contact on the acct and they just recently contacted my boyfriend to let him know that his father hasn't been paying the mortgage so.  Of course we know that he signed a contract and are responsible for it, that's why we're trying to figure out options since it is behind and if we should even keep it at this point. We're not running away from our responsibilities


I'm sorry. I didn't mean for it to seem that I am coming off too harshly. I'm glad that it is not any more serious than it is. Catching up 5 months shouldn't be too tough. After 9 years, how much is left on the mortgage? Perhaps between the Father and son, they could payoff the mortgage, leaving only annual maintenance fees. In that case, it could be sold, or given away to a new owner.


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## Luanne (May 7, 2019)

OldGuy said:


> Unlikely
> 
> I was just telling you what many here would give you as advice.


I don't think "many" people here [at least] would suggest selling if there is still a mortgage.


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## rickandcindy23 (May 7, 2019)

There is no value.  I would walk away.  I don't care if there is a mortgage, unless I planned to buy something big in the next 8-9 years.  Walk away and be done with it.  That is advice that is not necessarily the "nice" thing, but it is the logical thing for a timeshare not worth the paper that mortgage is printed on.


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## Passepartout (May 7, 2019)

rickandcindy23 said:


> There is no value.  I would walk away.  I don't care if there is a mortgage, unless I planned to buy something big in the next 8-9 years.  Walk away and be done with it.


Cindy, these people are trying to start a business and are concerned about their credit rating. I don't think under those circumstances, that walking away is a wise choice. Sure, if they were seniors who don't buy much on credit, absolutely- walk. But when they NEED credit, they need to protect it.

Jim


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## tschwa2 (May 7, 2019)

OL has a resale value of $0 for 85% of the units and $500-$2000 total for maybe 15% of the units.  3BR units during prime season and some 2 BR's in River Island again only during holiday and prime weeks have any value.  It is easy to get a 2BR unit for under $100 with MF paid and free usage for almost anytime of year.  Studios and 1 BR's typically have to throw in 1-3 years of MF's in order to find a taker.  

So your options really are to pay it off and then give it back to OL or default and take whatever credit hit may occur.  You can also contact OL to see if you can negotiate a hardship return.  The fact that fee's haven't been paid in a while might actually make them more willing to deal.


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## Talent312 (May 8, 2019)

If they couldn't even make current payments, making up 5 months of missed payments plus late payment fees (unless waived) may not be possible.

A better option would be to refinance the balance with either a personal loan from a bank or a balance transfer on a new credit card with a lengthy 0% teaser rate. Then, he'll have more options: keep it, sell it, give it away, or give it back.
.


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## OldGuy (May 8, 2019)

Luanne said:


> I don't think "many" people here [at least] would suggest selling if there is still a mortgage.



OK, _some_.

I was just trying to summarize what to _some_ here is the timeshare exit strategy.

I understand that some come here, and always have, because they are having problems with their timeshare, but the overwhelming majority are here because they love their timeshare, and being concerned about timeshare problems is not a priority.

There is no magic wand, even here at the most popular timeshare forum in the world.

It is clear from the information given that it is something that is not being used, in addition to something that is no longer affordable because of changes the owner(s) has(have) undergone.

Times change, things change, people change . . .

The obvious first step is to contact HICV and plead their case, try to get HICV to take it back.  That should be their second, third, and fourth steps also.

I can assure you HICV has been through this with thousands of owners.  It would behoove them to come up with a way to deal with it.  Some system have; perhaps they have.


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## OldGuy (May 8, 2019)

Talent312 said:


> . . . so it should
> be a last resort. . .



Nice choice of words.  It sounds like, for now at least, that's the case. 

*Chrystalann24:*

Two posts here are really, really close to the truth, which is, when whoever signed that purchase agreement for however many thousands of dollars, there were hundreds of people who had already done that who were trying to get rid of them for a small fraction of what they had in them, or to just give them away to be able to stop paying fees, and they find out at that point there is no real market for them.

Not necessarily because they are financially irresponsible, but because things change and for many other reasons.

Like you guys.


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## WVBaker (May 8, 2019)

Chrystalann24 said:


> First of all it, it hasn't been years of not paying, it's been 5 months.  Second of all, his father is the primary contact on the acct and they just recently contacted my boyfriend to let him know that his father hasn't been paying the mortgage so.  Of course we know that he signed a contract and are responsible for it, that's why we're trying to figure out options since it is behind and if we should even keep it at this point. We're not running away from our responsibilities



Chrystalann, you've noted how you feel about not running away from responsibilities, but what about your boyfriend? Does he feel the same way?

As explained, his options are quite limited at this point with his chances of selling being zero to none. Unless he's willing to bring all amounts due up to date and current, giving it away could take months or longer. Understand that even that's no sure bet. Wanting to start a business is going to take money, credit or both. Foreclosure or any action that would affect his credit should be the absolute last alternative.

A timeshare foreclosure will probably show up on his credit history and have a significant impact on his credit score. Make sure he understands that while not every timeshare developer reports foreclosures to the credit reporting bureaus, foreclosures are part of the public record, and the credit reporting bureaus often search public records for information such as foreclosures. If the bureaus learn about a timeshare foreclosure, the foreclosure goes into the credit history.

FICO credit scores, the most common type of credit scores, have a 300–850 range. In general, a foreclosure will drop his FICO credit score a minimum of 100 points and probably more. Past-due reports for missing your payments can also drop his score, assuming these missing payments have been reported. The exact drop in the credit score can vary. Have him get a copy of his credit report and see just what, if anything, has been reported. Damage control must be undertaken as soon as possible.


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## davidvel (May 8, 2019)

If they bought it together, seems a bit unfair to saddle dad with the payments. While it seems he agreed, apparently he didn't really, as he never paid.

There is no magic bullet there. The only "choices" are noted above: pay or don't pay. The expected outcomes will follow those choices.


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## OldGuy (May 8, 2019)

This was tedious to find, and not something a mere mortal would likely be able to, but to answer the question as to what actions OLCC/HICV may or may not take, here's this, which is just one day's publication, the least of which is $13000+:

May 2, 2019
Foreclosure Sales - Miscellaneous

Prepared by and returned to:
Jerry E. Aron, P.A.
2505 Metrocentre Blvd., Suite 301
West Palm Beach, FL 33407
NOTICE OF SALE
Jerry E. Aron, P.A., having street address of 2505 Metrocentre Blvd., Suite 301, West Palm Beach, Florida 33407 is the foreclosure trustee (the Trustee) of Orange Lake Country Club, Inc., having a street address of 8505 W. Irlo Bronson Memorial Hwy. Kissimmee, Florida 33407 (the Lienholder) pursuant to Section 721.855 and 721.856, Florida Statutes and hereby provides this Notice of Sale to the below described timeshare interests:
Owner/Name Address
Week/Unit
ANTONIA ORTEGA AGUILAR and HORACIO AGUILAR ESPINO 815 FEAGIN DR, LUFKIN, TX 75904 and 815 FEAGIN DR, LUFKIN, TX 75904 26/003503
Contract # 6516241
DEBRA ELAINE ALSTON and MONIQUE SASHELL BOYETTE 904 CLAY ST, PORTSMOUTH, VA 23701 and 5682 CRANEYBROOK LN APT C, PORTSMOUTH, VA 23703 35 Odd/003676
Contract # 6303819
JENNIFER AMPARO and GREGORY E. DIAZ, JR. 242 BEAVER LAKE RD, LIVINGSTON MANOR, NY 12758 and 105 WIERK AVE., LIBERTY, NY 12754 19/087746
Contract # 6344574
TIMOTEO BALLINAS and MARIA A. BALLINAS 1140 SAINT LAWRENCE AVE, BRONX, NY 10472 and 1140 ST LAWRENCE AVE, BRONX, NY 10472 44/087945
Contract # 6296402
PREMPEH ANNIN BONSU and BETTY ADJABENG BONSU 3467 PEMBROOK FARM WAY SW, SNELLVILLE, GA 30039 and 3467 PEMBROOK FARM WAY SW, SNELLVILLE, GA 30039 4 ODD/86855
Contract # 6305680
JAVIER BURGOS and CYNTHIA YVETTE PESANTES 3442 SW PLUTO ST, PORT SAINT LUCIE, FL 34953 and 3442 SW PLUTO ST, PORT SAINT LUCIE, FL 34953 18/087621
Contract # 6301300
MCKINLEY BURNS and NARDELL NIXON BURNS PO BOX 452, MIDWAY, TX 75852 and PO BOX 452, MIDWAY, TX 75852, 33/003873
Contract # 6460532
JOHNNIE CHRISTIAN CARTWRIGHT and CHARLES MICHAEL CARTWRIGHT and JOHNATHAN WAYNE CARTWRIGHT PO BOX 351, NECHES, TX 75779 and 318 AN COUNTY ROAD STE 334, PALESTINE, TX 75803 and 420 DEBBIE ST, VICTORIA, TX 77905 21 ODD/087516
Contract # 6499571
CHIQUITA DENISE DAVIS and KEITHON LYENITH CLINTON 5310 NE 9TH AVE, POMPANO BEACH, FL 33064 and 5310 NE 9TH AVE, POMPANO BEACH, FL 33064 25 ODD/86424
Contract # 6281147
WANDA SUPRENA DUNCAN 5326 BURMA RD, HOUSTON, TX 77033 18/086666
Contract # 6289774
CHAD ARANAZ GAFFNEY 2464 TURTLE TER, GRAYSON, GA 30017 36 ODD/087837
Contract # 6239071
LISA KAVELISH and RAYMOND SCOTT KAVELISH 10937 DRY STONE DR, HUNTERSVILLE, NC 28078 and 10937 DRY STONE DRIVE, HUNTERSVILLE, NC 28078 14/086312
Contract # 6243504
JOSHUA RYAN LONDON and LAYNE MORGAN LONDON 111 MAPLEMERE AVE, BOWLING GREEN, KY 42103 and 111 MAPLEMERE AVE, BOWLING GREEN, KY 42103 4 EVEN/086714
Contract # 6354954
THERESA C. MILLER 9449 BRIAR FOREST DR APT 4806, HOUSTON, TX 77063 26 ODD/003412
Contract # 6388509
TRACY RACQUEL PALMER 11320 SIERRA LN, WHITE PLAINS, MD 20695 22 Even/087545
Contract # 6353471
GEORGE E. RICHARDSON 75 N MAIN ST STE 177, RANDOLPH, MA 47 ODD/003514
Contract # 6444230
VELVEINE STRICKLAND 700 E ELM ST, NORRISTOWN, PA 19401 2 Odd/087815
Contract # 6522621
SHAVON TAYLOR 794 LIVINGSTON AVE, ALBANY, NY 12206 3/086112
Contract # 6352977
BRITTANY TROLYN WILLIAMS and DERRICK DEWAYNE CAVALIER SR. 9057 CEFALU DR, BATON ROUGE, LA 70811 and 9057 CEFALU DR, BATON ROUGE, LA 70811 3/086455
Contract # 6483566
Whose legal descriptions are (the Property): The above described WEEK(S)/UNIT(S) of the following described real property:
of Orange Lake Country Club Villas III, a Condominium, together with an undivided interest in the common elements appurtenant thereto, according to the Declaration of Condominium thereof, as recorded in Official Records Book 5914, Page 1965, of the Public Records of Orange County, Florida, and all amendments thereto.
The above described Owners have failed to make the payments as required by their promissory note and mortgage recorded in the Official Records Book and Page of the Public Records of Orange County, Florida. The amount secured by the Mortgage and the per diem amount that will accrue on the amount owed are stated below:
Name Mtg.- Orange County Clerk of Court Book/Page/Document # Amount Secured by Mortgage Per Diem
AGUILAR/AGUILAR ESPINO N/A, N/A, 20170616263 $ 34,759.43 $ 13.02
ALSTON/BOYETTE
N/A, N/A, 20160297526 $ 13,669.78 $ 4.87
AMPARO/DIAZ, JR. N/A, N/A, 20170028083 $ 21,545.65 $ 7.77
BALLINAS/BALLINAS N/A, N/A, 20160386313 $ 18,593.69 $ 6.91
BONSU/BONSU
N/A, N/A, 20160149884 $ 9,506.32 $ 3.24
BURGOS/PESANTES N/A, N/A, 20170131983 $ 22,265.15 $ 7.29
BURNS/BURNS
N/A, N/A, 20170471712 $ 35,334.14 $ 12.34
CARTWRIGHT/CARTWRIGHT/CARTWRIGHT N/A, N/A, 20170240856 $ 13,382.93 $ 4.53
DAVIS/CLINTON
11014, 9160, 20150599801 $ 18,976.28 $ 6.87
DUNCAN
10986, 7126, 20150496385 $ 18,277.36 $ 6.71
GAFFNEY
N/A, N/A, 20160655460 $ 9,643.93 $ 3.44
KAVELISH/KAVELISH 10818, 3636, 20140518330 $ 13,749.24 $ 4.38
LONDON/LONDON N/A, N/A, 20170116996 $ 10,912.33 $ 4.08
MILLER
N/A, N/A, 20170114009 $ 14,707.11 $ 5.4
PALMER
N/A, N/A, 20170453323 $ 14,666.04 $ 5.26
RICHARDSON
N/A, N/A, 20160476692 $ 13,905.46 $ 5.12
STRICKLAND
N/A, N/A, 20170558613 $ 13,922.58 $ 4.99
TAYLOR
N/A, N/A, 20170644099 $ 20,081.34 $ 7.48
WILLIAMS/CAVALIER SR. N/A, N/A, 20170681077 $ 24,914.46 $ 9.32
Notice is hereby given that on 5/17/19 at 10:00 a.m. Eastern time at Westfall Law Firm, P.A., 1060 Woodcock Road, Suite 101, Orlando, Fl. 32803 the Trustee will offer for sale the above described Property.
An Owner may cure the default by paying the total amounts due to Orange Lake Country Club by sending payment of the amounts owed by money order, certified check, or cashiers check to Jerry E. Aron, P.A. at 2505 Metrocentre Blvd., Suite 301, West Palm Beach, Florida 33407, at any time before the Property is sold and a certificate of sale is issued. In order to ascertain the total amount due and to cure the default, please call Jerry E. Aron, P.A. at 561-478-0511 or 1-866-229-6527.
A Junior Interest Holder may bid at the foreclosure sale and redeem the Property per Section 721.855(7)(f) or 721.856(7)(f), Florida Statutes.
TRUSTEE:
Jerry E. Aron, P.A.
By: Annalise R Marra
Print Name: Annalise Marra
Title: Authorized Agent
FURTHER AFFIANT SAITH NAUGHT.
Sworn to and subscribed before me this April 18, 2019, by Annalise Marra, as authorized agent of Jerry E. Aron, P.A. who is personally known to me.
Print Name: Sherry Jones
NOTARY PUBLIC - STATE OF FLORIDA
Commission Number: GG175987
My commission expires: 2/28/22
(Notarial Seal)
May 2, 9, 2019 19-01865W


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## Passepartout (May 8, 2019)

^^^^Not sure that the above is germane to the conversation here^^^^^ But of interest is that not a single one of the named delinquent owners is Canadian. And that fact is important in the advice to the OP. That being the credit repercussions to a Canadian for default. 

Jim


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## OldGuy (May 8, 2019)

Passepartout said:


> ^^^^Not sure that the above is germane to the conversation here^^^^^ But of interest is that not a single one of the named delinquent owners is Canadian. And that fact is important in the advice to the OP. That being the credit repercussions to a Canadian for default.
> 
> Jim



Hmmmmm!

Just trying to show the OP how OLCC handles things.  Probably the same way Kemmons Wilson did.  There are hundreds and hundreds of hundreds of additional notices published.

So, how do they handle Canadians?


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## Passepartout (May 8, 2019)

OldGuy said:


> Where do you see any addresses?


The top section of what you posted showed names/addresses of the owners.


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## Big Matt (May 8, 2019)

Talent312 said:


> A better option would be to refinance the balance with either a personal loan from a bank or a balance transfer on a new credit card with a lengthy 0% teaser rate. Then, he'll have more options: keep it, sell it, give it away, or give it back.
> .



This is a really solid idea.  I don't know how much OP owes on it, but if you can use a CC at a low initial rate and pay it off quickly that's the best advice.  Better still use home equity at a much lower rate.

Once you pay it off, find someone to buy it for whatever you can get or rent it if you can get more for your week than the fees.


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## OldGuy (May 8, 2019)

Passepartout said:


> The top section of what you posted showed names/addresses of the owners.



I caught my error, and edited, while you were posting.

But, thanks.

So, what do they do with Canadians?


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## Passepartout (May 8, 2019)

OldGuy said:


> *So, what do they do with Canadians?*


THAT, my friend, is the question. It's been asked here on TUG for years, and nobody has been able to answer whether credit dings such as foreclosure are reported to whatever credit report bureaus exist outside the USA.


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## OldGuy (May 8, 2019)

Passepartout said:


> THAT, my friend, is the question. It's been asked here on TUG for years, and nobody has been able to answer whether credit dings such as foreclosure are reported to whatever credit report bureaus exist outside the USA.



You brought it up, so I thought you might have an answer.

Here's some more gleanings:

*Orange Lake begins attempting to collect delinquent loans once the payment is seven days past due via telephone and 10 days past due via mail. At 30 days past due, Orange Lake will initiate the default process, and at 60 days past due, Orange Lake sends a demand letter requesting all delinquent amounts due be paid. Thirty days after the demand letter is sent to the obligor, if the obligor is 90 days delinquent on the scheduled payment on his or her timeshare loan, Orange Lake will send a default letter to the obligor advising him or her that failure to cure the default status of the account may result in the acceleration of the timeshare loan balance and possible legal action.

At closing, approximately 6.3% of the initial collateral includes loans made to foreign obligors, including Canadian obligors.

https://www.spratings.com/documents...ust2018A/244f0e13-9a79-4cf6-94dd-d5c2b88804fd
*
But I have not been able to find anything showing they handle foreign defaults differently than domestic.


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## WVBaker (May 8, 2019)

OldGuy said:


> You brought it up, so I thought you might have an answer.
> 
> Here's some more gleanings:
> 
> ...



Being a Canadian citizen and living in Canada, as long as he maintains and conducts all his future business in Canada, there's no automatic across the border collections. Sure, they can call, they can still send letters however, it's expensive for them to sue him to try to collect. They would still need get a judgement from a U.S. court, bring that judgement to a Canadian court to have it acknowledged 
in Canada. That process, in and of itself, is quite expensive and time consuming. Can they do it, of course they can however, will they do it, it's doubtful. So much depends on the amount due and is it worth doing that. If I were him, I wouldn't buy any houses, property or maintain any assets in the U.S because, those would be open for attachment.

This not legal advice just experience so, I would have him consult an attorney just to be on the safe side.


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## OldGuy (May 8, 2019)

Does anyone know if OLCC, or any Florida timeshare, pursue deficiency judgments?


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## rickandcindy23 (May 8, 2019)

Passepartout said:


> Cindy, these people are trying to start a business and are concerned about their credit rating. I don't think under those circumstances, that walking away is a wise choice. Sure, if they were seniors who don't buy much on credit, absolutely- walk. But when they NEED credit, they need to protect it.
> 
> Jim


Okay, so I understand what you are saying.  That makes sense.  I just don't know what a foreclosure to an OLCC timeshare will do to their credit.  

If they need good credit, then maybe a letter to OLCC to beg to get out would be a good idea.  That is what these supposed lawyers do for people who have overpaid for a crappy timeshare.  I would use recent resales on eBay as part of my letter.  They are selling something for outrageous prices that is not worth the price paid.


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## OldGuy (May 8, 2019)

Chrystalann24:

Does the debtor constantly monitor their credit score, are the delinquencies already on it, and has the score taken a hit?

I'm asking because if there are no derogatory notes yet, and they need to borrow money for business, now would be the time, or, if they are already on there, well . . .


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## OldGuy (May 8, 2019)

This is interesting:

*Generally, financing is not extended to a potential purchaser only if the purchaser is a party to an active bankruptcy case or has previously defaulted on an Orange Lake loan. Orange Lake applies FICO scoring to purchasers after the sale is completed rather than excluding financing of potential purchasers.*

So, everyone gets financed unless they are in an active bankruptcy or have defaulted on OL before.  They don't even look at FICO scores until after the sale, and then only use it to evaluate their marketing systems.

I was astounded by default rates in the reports I'm reading, but this explains that.


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## rickandcindy23 (May 8, 2019)

Timeshares are still wonderful, and some of us here have made our mistakes long ago, and we just learned to use it.  That could be a good lesson for the future.  Ultimately, I am glad to have what we have and kind of accepted that I was stupid in 1981 and 1982.


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## AJCts411 (May 9, 2019)

A Canadian, I have a credit reporting/protection plan from one of the big Canadian (and US) credit agencies.  I also have a two USA bank issued credit cards and had previous credit facilities in the USA.  In my case the USA credit does not show on by credit report, only my Canadian credit is reported on.  I'm suggesting that USA debt/credit is not reported on to Canada.


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## Passepartout (May 9, 2019)

AJCts411 said:


> In my case the USA credit does not show on by credit report, only my Canadian credit is reported on.  I'm suggesting that USA debt/credit is not reported on to Canada.


Interesting- but not unexpected. Thanks for the report.


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## bankr63 (May 9, 2019)

As a former Canadian Banker in the Credit industry, I can state the the bureaus do not cross report.  Canada uses the same bureaus, TransUnion Equifax and Experiean, but federal law on both sides of the border prohibit the sharing of credit bureau information cross border.  Here is a simple explanation from Experian (US site):

https://www.experian.com/blogs/ask-experian/canadian-credit-history-will-not-transfer-to-u-s/

I have dealt with many an unhappy American expat trying to get credit in Canada only to discover that they have absolutely no credit history in Canada and we have no way to access it.  And I was with an American headquartered bank. 

It is highly unlikely that OLCC would go the expense of pursuit of the remaining obligation through the Canadian courts if it is as small as I would think after 9 years of payments. A court judgement is probably the only way to blemish the Canadian record (I have never seen such a thing on a credit bureau report, but not saying it can't be done.)  I am assuming that OLCC did not go to the trouble of registering a Provincial PPSA (Personal Property Security Act) here when the obligation was first established; if they did this will show on your credit report as an obligation, not as a payment history.

I would start with a call to the resort offering the deed back, and discretely ask them what their process is for collection against Canadian debtors.  Causing them to stop and think about the process themselves may change the tune a bit.  I would think that the offer of a deedback vs. pursuing an international debt might be palatable to them.

ETA: I feel obligated to add the disclaimer that this is an opinion based on personal work experience and good working knowledge of Canadian Banking Regulations.  I would, as others have said, seek professional advice from a lawyer who is experienced in transborder credit issues (your average lawyer will probably have less real experience with this than I have).  Start with a search for a Canadian based Tax Lawyer with US specialization.  Anyone who can understand the tax situations between our nations should be able to handle this and also provide advice on how it may affect future investments in the US.  Depending on the nature of the business, a US bureau might come into play.  His Canadian record may be clean, but he will have a black mark SOTB for sure!


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## OldGuy (May 9, 2019)

I'm still curious what OLCC does to pursue Canadian delinquencies, and, here we have one, so are we gonna find out?


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## WVBaker (May 9, 2019)

OldGuy said:


> I'm still curious what OLCC does to pursue Canadian delinquencies, and, here we have one, so are we gonna find out?



That would be a great question for InterContinental Hotels Group PLC., which I believe owns OLCC.

Fortunately or unfortunately, depending on your point of view, it's quite arduous and expensive for any corporation to pursue these matters across borders. Most cases are simply not worth the time and costs involved. Matters like this are nothing more than the cost of doing business. The losses involved may just be recovered elsewhere. All businesses know this going in and as noted above, it can 
of course be done however, is it worth it?


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## OldGuy (May 10, 2019)

When I saw in the financial reports that they made a point of what percentage of sales were to foreigner, and they actually said, including Canadians, what I read into that is that they considered those sales greater risks, but would do them any way, hoping some of it would stick, or respond to their almost-immediate (10 days late) collections efforts.


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## easyrider (May 10, 2019)

If a foreigner buys a product and is extended credit there would be no credit check. It would be an un-secured closed end loan, aka signature loan, aka personal loan. The creditor would not be able to tarnish the foreigners credit history for non-payment of the debt without going to court in a foreign country.

In the USA, the creditor can go to court and get a judgement on  the debt but if the debtor can not be found the creditor can go through a substitute service process to notify the debtor. Substitute service is like a notice in the paper or sending a notice to the address provided by the debtor.

Collecting on the judgement would be difficult if the debtor has no assets in the country the debt originated. The cost of collecting in a different country makes it a waste of time. What usually happens is these debts are tax write offs to the creditor and then sold to debt collectors that will try to get the debtor to sign a promissory note in the country they reside.

Bill


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## chapjim (May 10, 2019)

OldGuy said:


> The most common advice from many here is _Just Sell It._



That's not common advice at all.  It is advice that only the uninformed would give.


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## silentg (May 10, 2019)

Have you been using the week? Hopefully you have gotten some vacations? Have you tried renting it to others? It’s a shame if it just sits there unused.
Silentg


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## OldGuy (May 11, 2019)

chapjim said:


> That's not common advice at all.  It is advice that only the uninformed would give.



Thank you.

Yet, when it comes to ending your timeshare days, that's the only advice some have to give.  Maybe they've never gotten to that point, and actually believe they can.

I always said when we're done we would just _walk away from them_.

We started walking 11 years ago, and with the deed back quitclaim deed sitting here right now, that's six, and last, of those we want to _walk away from.
- - - - - - _
So, wonder want OLCC does with delinquent Canadians.


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## chapjim (May 11, 2019)

OldGuy said:


> Thank you.
> 
> Yet, when it comes to ending your timeshare days, that's the only advice some have to give.  Maybe they've never gotten to that point, and actually believe they can.
> 
> ...



How many of your deedbacks had an unpaid balance on the loan?  OP still owes money on the purchase.

I have deeded back weeks to the resort or resort company by signing a quit claim deed.  That's not the same thing as selling a contract with an outstanding loan, which is what you said was common advice ("just sell it").


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## OldGuy (May 12, 2019)

Still, regardless, I wonder what OLCC does to try to collect from Canadian defaulters.


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## OldGuy (May 12, 2019)

So, to summarize the options given thus far:

***Do something . . . contact OLCC and let them know you are going to default, and give them the option to take it back, or . . .

***Do nothing . . . since contacting OLCC to let them know you are going to default may prompt them to take further action, whatever that might be.


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## Gypsy65 (May 14, 2019)

OL 9 years ago was what $17,000??
There can’t be much balance even owed on it at this point. 
Call and find out. If it’s a small amount you might just want to pay it off and use it or OL May take it back as it has a higher resale value to them??


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