# Is Hyatt resale a good opportunity now



## DazedandConfused

I have been a long time DVC owner (love it), had a Marriott Manor Club (sold it before the points change), stayed a few Westgates (all but Park City are not desirable), and stayed at Hilton in Orlando (nice).

I am considering buying one timeshare for my wife and I (to travel without kids) and looked at Hilton, but was not impressed with the variety of locations (we do not want Orlando or LV). However the Hyatt locations looks very desirable and the resale prices seem very reasonable now.

Traditionally, I do not want a set week at a set resort with a set room size forever and mainly want to use 1 bedrooms at lots of locations and probably travel in the Non-school vacations as my kids are soon off to college.

My questions are:

Other than Kal's site (nice but some of the posts are pretty old), where is a good site for details about Hyatt.

Can someone compare the Hyatt system to me in terms of DVC (points) system as Disney is super user friendly and flexible for owners.

Is the window for booking other non-home resorts 6 months?

How is the competition once the trading window opens up?

What is the sweet spot for resales assuming location is not a priority - is it Pinion with low dues

The location is not too important to me as I would want to use it as a points system. If I had to choose one location, it would probably be Key West as that is the easiest location for me to book, if all else fails.

Is all annual dues the same regardless of points

Is it critical to have 2,200 points or can you do fine with less if your priority is 1 bedrooms and can be 3 or 4 night reservations.

Is BUYING worthwhile or just stick with renting via II or VRBO or pay cash

Thanks for your thoughts.


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## Sandy VDH

Have you looked at Hilton lately, they have added more locations in addition to the Orlando, Vegas, Hawaii trio.  They now have Mrytle Beach, Hilton Head, Park City, Breckenridge, Carlsbad.  

Hyatt does have some nice locations too. An now they have the a pure points play.


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## Tucsonadventurer

DazedandConfused said:


> I have been a long time DVC owner (love it), had a Marriott Manor Club (sold it before the points change), stayed a few Westgates (all but Park City are not desirable), and stayed at Hilton in Orlando (nice).
> 
> I am considering buying one timeshare for my wife and I (to travel without kids) and looked at Hilton, but was not impressed with the variety of locations (we do not want Orlando or LV). However the Hyatt locations looks very desirable and the resale prices seem very reasonable now.
> 
> Traditionally, I do not want a set week at a set resort with a set room size forever and mainly want to use 1 bedrooms at lots of locations and probably travel in the Non-school vacations as my kids are soon off to college.
> 
> My questions are:
> 
> Other than Kal's site (nice but some of the posts are pretty old), where is a good site for details about Hyatt.
> 
> Can someone compare the Hyatt system to me in terms of DVC (points) system as Disney is super user friendly and flexible for owners.
> 
> Is the window for booking other non-home resorts 6 months?
> 
> How is the competition once the trading window opens up?
> 
> What is the sweet spot for resales assuming location is not a priority - is it Pinion with low dues
> 
> The location is not too important to me as I would want to use it as a points system. If I had to choose one location, it would probably be Key West as that is the easiest location for me to book, if all else fails.
> 
> Is all annual dues the same regardless of points
> 
> Is it critical to have 2,200 points or can you do fine with less if your priority is 1 bedrooms and can be 3 or 4 night reservations.
> 
> Is BUYING worthwhile or just stick with renting via II or VRBO or pay cash
> 
> Thanks for your thoughts.


The window is 6 weeks out usually but sometimes there are last minute cancellations that show up and sometimes things open up earlier than 6 months. We typically give up our week the first month we get our points . We have had some great trades within Hyatt. My husband was up at midnight one evening and Siesta Keys appeared , we grabbed it. We have not yet found a resort we couldn't get into if you have flexibility and the wait list is an extra bonus. We started out with 2000 pts at Sedona, a great place to purchase. MF fees are the same for lesser value weeks so it makes sense to get at least an 1880 point week. 22000 weeks seem to have a much higher up front price than 2000, pt for pt. We started out with a 2,000 pt week and it was plenty to get 4 to 5 weeks of vacation. Sedona is a great place to buy as the fees are low but again make sure you get a place you would like to stay if anything were to ever change in the sysyem. The Pure Points system changes are going to start in Florida so I would stay away from purchasing there for right now. It may be more difficult to get through ROFR. The other program I have been checking out and would love to get into is Starwood or new name Vistana. They charge less all around fees, don't have a lot of properties but the ones they have are  great resorts, and they have many Hawaii resorts if that is of interest.


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## WalnutBaron

I own fixed weeks at Carmel and Sedona through the Hyatt system. I agree with everything Tucson Traveler said. All of the Hyatt resorts we have visited through internal trades have been outstanding--Lake Tahoe, Colorado, Siesta Key, Beach House, San Antonio, and Del Mar in Puerto Rico. Trading internally is pretty easy--as long as you plan far enough ahead (we typically try to book at 6-9 months in advance) and as long as you're not trying to get into the newest property on Maui. 

Pinon Pointe is nearly sold out--so although it currently has the system's lowest MF's--I suspect that may change over the next few years as Hyatt's subsidization of MF's will no longer be in effect. (Like most systems, the developer tends to subsidize MF's during the active sales period to encourage retail purchases.) 

One other thing to consider: now that II owns the Hyatt system, Hyatt gets very high priority for trading within II--not only because of the high quality of the Hyatt resorts, but also because of the incentive II now has to keep the resorts full with both owners and traders from other timeshares to maximize occupancy and revenue.


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## lizap

WalnutBaron said:


> I own fixed weeks at Carmel and Sedona through the Hyatt system. I agree with everything Tucson Traveler said. All of the Hyatt resorts we have visited through internal trades have been outstanding--Lake Tahoe, Colorado, Siesta Key, Beach House, San Antonio, and Del Mar in Puerto Rico. Trading internally is pretty easy--as long as you plan far enough ahead (we typically try to book at 6-9 months in advance) and as long as you're not trying to get into the newest property on Maui.
> 
> Pinon Pointe is nearly sold out--so although it currently has the system's lowest MF's--I suspect that may change over the next few years as Hyatt's subsidization of MF's will no longer be in effect. (Like most systems, the developer tends to subsidize MF's during the active sales period to encourage retail purchases.)
> 
> One other thing to consider: now that II owns the Hyatt system, Hyatt gets very high priority for trading within II--not only because of the high quality of the Hyatt resorts, but also because of the incentive II now has to keep the resorts full with both owners and traders from other timeshares to maximize occupancy and revenue.





FYI: I was told by a salesperson that MFs at Pinion Pointe are likely to rise when it is completely sold out..


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## Marathoner

WalnutBaron said:


> One other thing to consider: now that II owns the Hyatt system, Hyatt gets very high priority for trading within II--not only because of the high quality of the Hyatt resorts, but also because of the incentive II now has to keep the resorts full with both owners and traders from other timeshares to maximize occupancy and revenue.



Hi - what is the experience that you have seen with Hyatt II exchanges which validates this observation? I have only exchanged within the Hyatt internal system so am unaware of any increased trading power within II. 

Sent from my LG-H830 using Tapatalk


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## WalnutBaron

Marathoner said:


> Hi - what is the experience that you have seen with Hyatt II exchanges which validates this observation? I have only exchanged within the Hyatt internal system so am unaware of any increased trading power within II.
> 
> Sent from my LG-H830 using Tapatalk



Marathoner, since I am like you--pretty happy with the options we have within HRC--I 've only done a few trades over the years, and only two since the acquisition of HRC by ILG 2 1/2 years ago. On one trade, I was able to get a 2 BR into Westin Princeville during a shoulder season (mid-April). On the second trade, I landed Grand Luxxe  in Nuevo Vallarta, Mexico. Both are beautiful resorts, and I was very happy with the trades.


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## DazedandConfused

How do you value Hyatt points in terms of $/point?

For example, if a 2,000 point contract has dues of $1,000, then the points are $0.50/point

I pretty much assume that if you buy a good contract resale, keep it for 5 years or so, then sell it, you are pretty much break even, so there is no major cost to acquire a timeshare other than some loss of opportunity costs (not that significant now).

Is there a chart of the cost for annual dues for various Hyatt resorts

What are the best Hyatt resale locations for price/dues?
For example, the Hilton Las Vegas resorts and DVC Saratoga Springs have some of the lowest annual resale prices and annual fees in those systems.


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## lizap

Marathoner said:


> Hi - what is the experience that you have seen with Hyatt II exchanges which validates this observation? I have only exchanged within the Hyatt internal system so am unaware of any increased trading power within II.
> 
> Sent from my LG-H830 using Tapatalk




Guess it is all relative.


DazedandConfused said:


> How do you value Hyatt points in terms of $/point?
> 
> For example, if a 2,000 point contract has dues of $1,000, then the points are $0.50/point
> 
> I pretty much assume that if you buy a good contract resale, keep it for 5 years or so, then sell it, you are pretty much break even, so there is no major cost to acquire a timeshare other than some loss of opportunity costs (not that significant now).
> 
> Is there a chart of the cost for annual dues for various Hyatt resorts
> 
> What are the best Hyatt resale locations for price/dues?
> For example, the Hilton Las Vegas resorts and DVC Saratoga Springs have some of the lowest annual resale prices and annual fees in those systems.




First, TSs are NOT an investment.  They are a way to experience vacations at very nice resorts.  The thing that distinguishes Hyatt is the resorts are very high quality and in interesting locations.  Right now, I think Pinion Pointe has the lowest MFs.  However, they will very likely go up, possibly significantly, when the resort is completely sold.  We bought at High Sierra four years ago and long ago, recouped our original cost.


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## DazedandConfused

lizap said:


> First, TSs are NOT an investment.  They are a way to experience vacations at very nice resorts.  The thing that distinguishes Hyatt is the resorts are very high quality and in interesting locations.  Right now, I think Pinion Pointe has the lowest MFs.  However, they will very likely go up, possibly significantly, when the resort is completely sold.  We bought at High Sierra four years ago and long ago, recouped our original cost.



I did NOT ask about timeshares as an investment, I was trying to determine the "savings" vs renting the same property for cash from Hyatt or VRBO.

For example, if ignore the cost of the timeshare (assume you will break even on a buy/sell) and you value Hyatt points at $1,500 dues for 2,000 points = $0.75 per point. Then book a week in a 1 bedroom for 1,450 points - this is equivalent to $1,087.50 for the week or $155 per night. the question is how much is that room for a cash reservation. Are there other fees to book your reservation? What happens to the extra unused 450 points?

If Aspen is 750 points for a Diamond studio ski week then this can be $80 per night based on $0.75 and seems too cheap, unless it is impossible to book a studio ski week.


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## Kal

You can book a Hyatt unit without using HRC points.  Those units are managed by Hyatt on behalf of the developer or a HRC owner who has contracted with Hyatt to rent their unit.  If you are a HRC member, you get a discount off the rental price.  If not, you pay the asking rate.  I recently saw a studio rental at Sunset Harbor during high season.  The nightly street rate was about $440 while the owner discounted rate was about $250.  One bedroom units might be at $650/night.  On a maintenance fee basis, the HRC Sunset Harbor owner pays $214 per night for a 2-BR unit.

I'm not sure how much value you can place on these numbers, but at least it's a snapshot.

As a reference point, I am paying $170/night for a 1-BR very nice apartment in Paris thru Air B&B.


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## DazedandConfused

Kal said:


> You can book a Hyatt unit without using HRC points.  Those units are managed by Hyatt on behalf of the developer or a HRC owner who has contracted with Hyatt to rent their unit.  If you are a HRC member, you get a discount off the rental price.  If not, you pay the asking rate.  I recently saw a studio rental at Sunset Harbor during high season.  The nightly street rate was about $440 while the owner discounted rate was about $250.  One bedroom units might be at $650/night.  On a maintenance fee basis, the HRC Sunset Harbor owner pays $214 per night for a 2-BR unit.
> 
> I'm not sure how much value you can place on these numbers, but at least it's a snapshot.
> 
> As a reference point, I am paying $170/night for a 1-BR very nice apartment in Paris thru Air B&B.



Thats a great frame of reference. Of course, it assumes that there is no wasted points or the cost goes up.

I do like Hyatt and Hilton and other timeshares, but with VRBO and AirBnB, I am just not sure it is worth being locked into a system unless there is one location you want to visit every year.


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## lizap

DazedandConfused said:


> Thats a great frame of reference. Of course, it assumes that there is no wasted points or the cost goes up.
> 
> I do like Hyatt and Hilton and other timeshares, but with VRBO and AirBnB, I am just not sure it is worth being locked into a system unless there is one location you want to visit every year.




If you travel off-peak, you will be able to get more than a week with your points. Also, if you can use a 1 BR, you can use your points from your 2 BR to get more than a week.  You have to learn the system and make it work for you; the savings for us has been significantly more than we could have rented for. I have yet to see the owner discounted rates available. We supplement our TSs with VRBO rentals; they are completely different animals. TSs are luxurious resorts whereas our VRBOs are more apartment-like.  They compliment each other nicely..


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## DazedandConfused

lizap said:


> TSs are luxurious resorts whereas our VRBOs are more apartment-like.  They compliment each other nicely..



I agree, and they (hyatt) are also consistently uniform, in great locations, and have hotel amenities.

Do you consider the points system a good thing like DVC (most members are happy)or a bad thing like Marriott (seems the members are not happy)


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## WalnutBaron

DazedandConfused said:


> I agree, and they (hyatt) are also consistently uniform, in great locations, and have hotel amenities.
> 
> Do you consider the points system a good thing like DVC (most members are happy)or a bad thing like Marriott (seems the members are not happy)



I consider the HRC points system as most definitely a good thing. Most resort requests can be accommodated within the HRC system, the points for a 2000-point contract can easily be stretched to several weeks of vacations if you're willing to travel mid-week and in shoulder seasons, and the only privilege you don't have as a resale owner is that you can't convert your HRC points into hotel points as retail owners can--but that would be a terrible strategy anyway, as the value of hotel points is a pittance compared to the value of your HRC points.


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## dagger1

DazedandConfused said:


> Thats a great frame of reference. Of course, it assumes that there is no wasted points or the cost goes up.
> 
> I do like Hyatt and Hilton and other timeshares, but with VRBO and AirBnB, I am just not sure it is worth being locked into a system unless there is one location you want to visit every year.



We like the atmosphere of high end resorts, amenities for kids, etc.  But the main reason we can't use VRBO or Airbnb is peculiar to us:  we need fully ADA accessible rooms/bathrooms.  Wheelchair maneuverability is a must for us.  We have checked on ADA units at Airbnb and VRBO, and it almost always turns out they are really not...  No elevators, rollin showers, or wheelchair space....  But most folks aren't in our situation...


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## lizap

The Hyatt points system has worked very well for us.  I'm not familiar with the way DVC works, but IMO, their TSs cost too much initially. Regarding Marriott, I think there are mixed feelings, depending on who you ask.  BTW, we have gotten some excellent exchanges into Marriotts using our Hyatt, via II.


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## DAman

WalnutBaron said:


> I consider the HRC points system as most definitely a good thing. Most resort requests can be accommodated within the HRC system, the points for a 2000-point contract can easily be stretched to several weeks of vacations if you're willing to travel mid-week and in shoulder seasons, and the only privilege you don't have as a resale owner is that you can't convert your HRC points into hotel points as retail owners can--but that would be a terrible strategy anyway, as the value of hotel points is a pittance compared to the value of your HRC points.



There is a $133 fee to convert points into hotel points making it a worse value.


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## DazedandConfused

Does Hyatt have a booking feel like Hilton

Hilton fees
$55/107 - Reservation fee online/phone
$82 - HHonors point conversion
$76 - Hotel reservation vs points
$52 - Guest certificate


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## dahntahn

DazedandConfused said:


> I agree, and they (hyatt) are also consistently uniform, in great locations, and have hotel amenities.
> 
> Do you consider the points system a good thing like DVC (most members are happy)or a bad thing like Marriott (seems the members are not happy)


We bought DVC from Disney way back when our kids were younger and before we learned of the secondary market, paying $ 79 per point.  We used them for years, but when kids grew older they wanted to try Key West so we traded thru II and went to Hyatt Beach House and were impressed, went to their sales pitch and declined. Week priced at $ 27000.  When we tried to do the same the next year, Disney had switched to RCI and we couldn't access Hyatt.  So I looked in EBay and found a Hyatt week at BH for $9000 for 1880 points and bought it.  Then when the big recession hit we bought three more weeks at very low prices, all resale.  Since then we have used our Hyatt points to go to many other locations, all of them outstanding resorts, and have rented out our Disney points for a nice return that helps pay our Hyatt MFs.  
The Hyatt points system point system is actually quite similar to DVC, has different quirks, but is easy to use once you figure it out.  We like II as opposed to RCI which Disney uses, and find HRC trades get better value than DVC trades.  Hyatt does lack DVCs ability to amass three years of points into one year by banking ahead and borrowing back.  DVC has really retained its value and we could sell today for about what we paid, HRC not so much, although I expect resale value to rise with the development of the pure points system.  I would encourage you to try to buy a deeded Hyatt week soon if you decide to jump in.  We have found the use of our Hyatt points to be amazingly flexible and have had essentially no trouble trading into other Hyatt properties - the key is to place a request as far in advance as possible - 9 to 12 months out.  Doing so we have never failed to get a desired reservation, but you usually don't find out until 6 months before the requested date because that's when owners have to decide on using their owned week.  Sometimes we have heard much earlier, but mostly around that time.

One last note, you have used a calculation assuming that maintenance fees are points based.  They aren't.  In a specific resort, all weeks have essentially the same MF for the same size unit.  So for a 2 BR unit the MF is similar for a 2200 point week and a 1300 point week, a fact we did not realize before buying.  Luckily, our 1300 point BH weeks were recently raised to 2000 points, MFs unchanged.


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## DazedandConfused

dahntahn said:


> Luckily, our 1300 point BH weeks were recently raised to 2000 points, MFs unchanged.



Very impressive!

What do people consider to be the best Hyatt for a pure points play - in terms of resale price and annual dues. I understan Pinion may be, but their dues may go up.

Is there a chart of ALL Hyatt resorts annual dues?

If I was MORE interested in a 1 bedroom, what point should I consider.
What is the difference between a 1 and 2 bedroom dues?
Is is better to buy a 2,000-2,000 contract even if you don't need that much or is it better to borrow from a future year (if possible) to use more points EOY, etc.


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## lizap

DazedandConfused said:


> Very impressive!
> 
> What do people consider to be the best Hyatt for a pure points play - in terms of resale price and annual dues. I understan Pinion may be, but their dues may go up.
> 
> Is there a chart of ALL Hyatt resorts annual dues?
> 
> If I was MORE interested in a 1 bedroom, what point should I consider.
> What is the difference between a 1 and 2 bedroom dues?
> Is is better to buy a 2,000-2,000 contract even if you don't need that much or is it better to borrow from a future year (if possible) to use more points EOY, etc.




In terms of MFs, I believe Pinion Pointe is currently the lowest. In terms of resale, really depends on the week.  Highest point weeks typically are in more demand, so they retain price better and are easier to sell.  I would not buy anything less than a 2200 point week, as this will allow you access into a 2BR in Maui (when availability gets better). Maui has only a few 1 BR units. I have seen some 2200 points (Diamond) weeks for as low as 10K -11K in Key West, but don't know if these would pass ROFR, given that Hyatt appears to be accumulating inventory in FL.


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## DAman

DazedandConfused said:


> Does Hyatt have a booking feel like Hilton
> 
> Hilton fees
> $55/107 - Reservation fee online/phone
> $82 - HHonors point conversion
> $76 - Hotel reservation vs points
> $52 - Guest certificate



$41 reservation fee
$30 guest certificates fee
$51 cancellation fee


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## Tucsonadventurer

You can waive guest fees for 3 people if you chose to pay a one time fee . We did so for both my children and my sister and it was something like 40 or 50 dollars for as long as we are owners. That way they can make their own reservations


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## heathpack

I think its a foolish move to buy Hyatt for the best points value right now.  Hyatt can change the terms of the current points overlay at any time.  If you're interested in the Hyatt system, buy a unit you want to use, or a lock-off bigger than you want but a week you can use at a resort you'd want to visit annually (to get some extra points).  If you employ this strategy, HRC cannot hurt you with their new Pure Points system. 

The current Hyatt points system is just an overlay to a deeded week, you get a certain number of points if you don't use your deeded week, but HRC can change the terms of the points system at any time.  Your points are not guaranteed to represent anything specific over time.  This is in distinct contrast to DVC where X points always and forever will represent Y percent ownership at your home resort.  With DVC, you actually own points and that means something legally.  With HRC, you own a deeded week and that's it.  You don't own points, the points are just a trading concept for trading internally within the HRC system.

As to the poster who commented that DVC was "too expensive," I will say that I agree its an expensive system to own in.  However, my DVC has appreciated in value by 65% in a few years of ownership.  I could sell in 12 seconds and make a profit that would largely offset what I've spent thus far between the purchase and the annual fees.

My Hyatt has held value decently, it would take me a little longer to sell but would move pretty quickly and I've gotten tremendous value out of it.  Its a great trader, I've never even been to my home resort (although I'd be fine with using my week every year instead of trading).  They are both good systems but the big difference is that the Hyatt can be expected to depreciate whereas the DVC weirdly just continues to appreciate year after year for me.


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## dahntahn

heathpack said:


> I think its a foolish move to buy Hyatt for the best points value right now.  Hyatt can change the terms of the current points overlay at any time.  If you're interested in the Hyatt system, buy a unit you want to use, or a lock-off bigger than you want but a week you can use at a resort you'd want to visit annually (to get some extra points).  If you employ this strategy, HRC cannot hurt you with their new Pure Points system.
> 
> The current Hyatt points system is just an overlay to a deeded week, you get a certain number of points if you don't use your deeded week, but HRC can change the terms of the points system at any time.  Your points are not guaranteed to represent anything specific over time.  This is in distinct contrast to DVC where X points always and forever will represent Y percent ownership at your home resort.  With DVC, you actually own points and that means something legally.  With HRC, you own a deeded week and that's it.  You don't own points, the points are just a trading concept for trading internally within the HRC system.
> 
> As to the poster who commented that DVC was "too expensive," I will say that I agree its an expensive system to own in.  However, my DVC has appreciated in value by 65% in a few years of ownership.  I could sell in 12 seconds and make a profit that would largely offset what I've spent thus far between the purchase and the annual fees.
> 
> My Hyatt has held value decently, it would take me a little longer to sell but would move pretty quickly and I've gotten tremendous value out of it.  Its a great trader, I've never even been to my home resort (although I'd be fine with using my week every year instead of trading).  They are both good systems but the big difference is that the Hyatt can be expected to depreciate whereas the DVC weirdly just continues to appreciate year after year for me.


I basically agree with your post but DVC does expire after 50 years, leaving you with nothing and Hyatt is a deed in perpetuity which you can leave to your kids or sell in whatever year you decide.  This may be of little import now, but DVC points are NOT " always and forever."


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## heathpack

dahntahn said:


> I basically agree with your post but DVC does expire after 50 years, leaving you with nothing and Hyatt is a deed in perpetuity which you can leave to your kids or sell in whatever year you decide.  This may be of little import now, but DVC points are NOT " always and forever."



I know people think a deed in perpetuity is a plus but I think it's a negative.  If you use it for 50 years, you've likely gotten a lot out of it.  Best to let your timeshare die when it gets old, rather than saddle your kids with a responsibility/liability that may not realistically work for them.

Sure they could refuse to inherit it, but if that's how it's going to play out then there's no advantage to owning a deed in perpetuity.

A HUGE problem is TS ownership IMO is the lack of an exit strategy.  TS that expire are an answer to this.  Personally, I think a very good answer.


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## WalnutBaron

heathpack said:


> I think its a foolish move to buy Hyatt for the best points value right now.  Hyatt can change the terms of the current points overlay at any time.  If you're interested in the Hyatt system, buy a unit you want to use, or a lock-off bigger than you want but a week you can use at a resort you'd want to visit annually (to get some extra points).  If you employ this strategy, HRC cannot hurt you with their new Pure Points system.
> 
> The current Hyatt points system is just an overlay to a deeded week, you get a certain number of points if you don't use your deeded week, but HRC can change the terms of the points system at any time.  Your points are not guaranteed to represent anything specific over time.  This is in distinct contrast to DVC where X points always and forever will represent Y percent ownership at your home resort.  With DVC, you actually own points and that means something legally.  With HRC, you own a deeded week and that's it.  You don't own points, the points are just a trading concept for trading internally within the HRC system.
> 
> As to the poster who commented that DVC was "too expensive," I will say that I agree its an expensive system to own in.  However, my DVC has appreciated in value by 65% in a few years of ownership.  I could sell in 12 seconds and make a profit that would largely offset what I've spent thus far between the purchase and the annual fees.
> 
> My Hyatt has held value decently, it would take me a little longer to sell but would move pretty quickly and I've gotten tremendous value out of it.  Its a great trader, I've never even been to my home resort (although I'd be fine with using my week every year instead of trading).  They are both good systems but the big difference is that the Hyatt can be expected to depreciate whereas the DVC weirdly just continues to appreciate year after year for me.



While technically true that Hyatt can change the terms of the points system within HRC, I disagree with the implications in your post that this happens frequently--or even at all. Hyatt's point values for Diamond and Platinum weeks have not been degraded one iota over at least the past 6-8 years.


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## heathpack

WalnutBaron said:


> While technically true that Hyatt can change the terms of the points system within HRC, I disagree with the implications in your post that this happens frequently--or even at all. Hyatt's point values for Diamond and Platinum weeks have not been degraded one iota over at least the past 6-8 years.



Yes but they are adding more Diamond and Platinum weeks.  They created Diamond weeks when none previously existed.  They created new room categories that are more point values for the same or smaller size units.  They have entire resorts like Maui with units that "cost" more points than some owners have.  These moves have all effectively prevented gold owners from accessing a great many weeks that they could previously access.  No reason to expect that this type of thing would not continue.  You could own a Diamond week today and next year HRC could create "Sapphire" weeks at current legacy resorts, they could value these weeks at 2500 pts each and thereby block Diamond owners from access.  I don't say this because it's a theoretical concern- it's literally something HRC has fine previously.  Platinum used to be the highest value weeks.  Until one day, HRC created Diamond weeks.

It's naive to expect anything less over time.  Your options are to play the points game & maybe get burned (but if you minimize costs over time by minimizing purchase price & MFs maybe you can make it work).  OR you buy the best value week you'd want to use anyway and don't try to go for the "best" points-MF-purchase price combo.  You're more likely to win in the long run in my opinion by pursuing the latter strategy.


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## dagger1

heathpack said:


> Yes but they are adding more Diamond and Platinum weeks.  They created Diamond weeks when none previously existed.  They created new room categories that are more point values for the same or smaller size units.  They have entire resorts like Maui with units that "cost" more points than some owners have.  These moves have all effectively prevented gold owners from accessing a great many weeks that they could previously access.  No reason to expect that this type of thing would not continue.  You could own a Diamond week today and next year HRC could create "Sapphire" weeks at current legacy resorts, they could value these weeks at 2500 pts each and thereby block Diamond owners from access.  I don't say this because it's a theoretical concern- it's literally something HRC has fine previously.  Platinum used to be the highest value weeks.  Until one day, HRC created Diamond weeks.
> 
> It's naive to expect anything less over time.  Your options are to play the points game & maybe get burned (but if you minimize costs over time by minimizing purchase price & MFs maybe you can make it work).  OR you buy the best value week you'd want to use anyway and don't try to go for the "best" points-MF-purchase price combo.  You're more likely to win in the long run in my opinion by pursuing the latter strategy.



Hmmm..  But if you have fixed unit/fixed week, and that's where you go every year, who cares about "Sapphire" weeks?  We bought Hyatt 1.  For our fixed week/unit and 2. For trade ability in "gold" and "bronze" weeks...  I think that's what you are recommending...  And ONLY BUY resale...


----------



## heathpack

dagger1 said:


> Hmmm..  But if you have fixed unit/fixed week, and that's where you go every year, who cares about "Sapphire" weeks?  We bought Hyatt 1.  For our fixed week/unit and 2. For trade ability in "gold" and "bronze" weeks...  I think that's what you are recommending...  And ONLY BUY resale...



There were questions being asked about the best point value to MF weeks.  Those owners would care greatly about the creation of the mythical Sapphire weeks, because someone who say strategically buys a Platinum week they can never use might be locked out of trading into units they expected to be able to trade into.  This is exactly what happened to us- we bought a 2BR gold week at High Sierra with the expectation that we could use it some years, and some years trade into Highlands Inn 1BR units with points leftover for more Hyatt travel or trades into II studio units.  Then HRC doubled points values of all units at Highlands Inn, preventing us from accessing many weeks- all the plat and diamond 1BR weeks that we expected to be able to trade into.  It wasn't the end of the world because we can still travel in low season (which we prefer in Carmel anyway).  And we have an underlying week we're happy to use (although interestingly we never have).  HRC very much decreased the value of the points we "own".

If we had bought at a resort we would rarely travel to (like say Wild Oak), we'd have been more aggrieved.  Owning a week we can use changes the equation completely IMO, makes whatever HRC chooses to bring on ok with us, since we're fine with our owned week.


----------



## lizap

heathpack said:


> Yes but they are adding more Diamond and Platinum weeks.  They created Diamond weeks when none previously existed.  They created new room categories that are more point values for the same or smaller size units.  They have entire resorts like Maui with units that "cost" more points than some owners have.  These moves have all effectively prevented gold owners from accessing a great many weeks that they could previously access.  No reason to expect that this type of thing would not continue.  You could own a Diamond week today and next year HRC could create "Sapphire" weeks at current legacy resorts, they could value these weeks at 2500 pts each and thereby block Diamond owners from access.  I don't say this because it's a theoretical concern- it's literally something HRC has fine previously.  Platinum used to be the highest value weeks.  Until one day, HRC created Diamond weeks.
> 
> It's naive to expect anything less over time.  Your options are to play the points game & maybe get burned (but if you minimize costs over time by minimizing purchase price & MFs maybe you can make it work).  OR you buy the best value week you'd want to use anyway and don't try to go for the "best" points-MF-purchase price combo.  You're more likely to win in the long run in my opinion by pursuing the latter strategy.






WalnutBaron said:


> While technically true that Hyatt can change the terms of the points system within HRC, I disagree with the implications in your post that this happens frequently--or even at all. Hyatt's point values for Diamond and Platinum weeks have not been degraded one iota over at least the past 6-8 years.



I also don't agree with all of heathpack's comments.  Most TS can change their rules at moment's notice -I expect that.  That certainly doesn't mean they are trying to screw deeded owners; conversely, it would not be in their (ILG) best interest to do so.  While Hyatt has increased the point value at some of its resorts (Vistana did the same thing at WSJ), I must say it has not adversely affected us at all, based on what we do/where we visit.  And if it had, I would have simply adjusted to the new points. I guess my expectations are that systems will be modified from time to time and you have to adapt to the new system.  I very seriously doubt Hyatt's current internal trading system is going to be significantly modified to the detriment of most deeded owners.  In terms of buying, I and many others on this forum, including the resident guru Kal, believe prices are likely to go up after the introduction of the PPP system. So now is probably a great time to buy!


----------



## lizap

heathpack said:


> There were questions being asked about the best point value to MF weeks.  Those owners would care greatly about the creation of the mythical Sapphire weeks, because someone who say strategically buys a Platinum week they can never use might be locked out of trading into units they expected to be able to trade into.  This is exactly what happened to us- we bought a 2BR gold week at High Sierra with the expectation that we could use it some years, and some years trade into Highlands Inn 1BR units with points leftover for more Hyatt travel or trades into II studio units.  Then HRC doubled points values of all units at Highlands Inn, preventing us from accessing many weeks- all the plat and diamond 1BR weeks that we expected to be able to trade into.  It wasn't the end of the world because we can still travel in low season (which we prefer in Carmel anyway).  And we have an underlying week we're happy to use (although interestingly we never have).  HRC very much decreased the value of the points we "own".
> 
> If we had bought at a resort we would rarely travel to (like say Wild Oak), we'd have been more aggrieved.  Owning a week we can use changes the equation completely IMO, makes whatever HRC chooses to bring on ok with us, since we're fine with our owned week.




The key here is if you're buying a week to use in Hyatt's internal trading system (in addition to using) is to buy a high demand week (think diamond) that will retain value fairly well and be easier to sell, should you desire to..


----------



## Kal

If MF is in the equation, you need to consider changes in the MF.  Over time, Hyatt increases MF on average 5%/year.  With older resorts, replacement and major renovations drive the MFs higher.  It's all a moving target where the numbers can change even with a single focus resort.  Often there is a situation where the developer subsidizes the MF to keep them "low" to attract new buyers.  Once the property is sold out the fees jump.  That jump might very well coincide with the onset of the need for replacements.  Furnishings get worn or designer trends change all causing higher MFs.

Moreover, the owner experiences life style changes where your preferences 10 years ago no longer match your situation tomorrow.  And I'm not even going to go there with body part changes.  A two level condo format might not be so "perfect" when looking at the internal stairway.  A ski resort might not work if you advance out of the "ski business".

So it's all a moving target.  Carpe Diem...


----------



## heathpack

lizap said:


> I also don't agree with all of heathpack's comments.  Most TS can change their rules at moment's notice -I expect that.  That certainly doesn't mean they are trying to screw deeded owners; conversely, it would not be in their (ILG) best interest to do so.  While Hyatt has increased the point value at some of its resorts (Vistana did the same thing at WSJ), I must say it has not adversely affected us at all, based on what we do/where we visit.  And if it had, I would have simply adjusted to the new points. I guess my expectations are that systems will be modified from time to time and you have to adapt to the new system.  I very seriously doubt Hyatt's current internal trading system is going to be significantly modified to the detriment of most deeded owners.  In terms of buying, I and many others on this forum, including the resident guru Kal, believe prices are likely to go up after the introduction of the PPP system. So now is probably a great time to buy!



I think your take on TS ownership is a little bit pie-in-the-sky.  TS companies are always willing to change rules in a manner that screws current owners.  The things that keep this in check are: 1. Legal protections (i.e. You buy something like DVC points which by law can only be modified in certain ways that are not going to significantly degrade the value of your ownership) and 2. The desire not to develop a sleazy reputation that would hurt future sales.  TS companies will modify rules to their own benefit when they feel like they can get away with it.

The other huge point that I am making is that you DO NOT own points.  Don't go into a Hyatt purchase believing you do.  Understand that you are buying a week.  My strong suggestion is to buy a week that is usable to you. Don't put yourself in the position of relying on Hyatt "doing the right thing".  Because what you think is the "right thing" may well differ from what HRC thinks is the right thing.

As to Kal's opinion that deeded weeks will become more valuable, I guess I wouldn't be surprised if this happened- at first.  But eventually Hyatt will populate their new points system with legacy weeks.  I doubt Hyatt is going to introduce a points system that's going to be usable for current owners.  Over the years, the deeded weeks will start to become less attractive because new buyers will want into the Pure Points system due to its flexibility.  Eventually our deeded weeks will erode in value.  As I age and possibly don't want to travel to Tahoe any more, I may own a week that I can't use, is hard to sell, and is my problem in perpetuity.  My hope is that there is still enough value in the week that I can unload it when the day comes that I don't want it anymore.  I weight this "hope" against the reality of it possibly making more sense to just sell now, while my week is still worth 75% of what I paid for it.  Smart move might be to sell when the temporary bump in prices comes after the Pure Points system rolls out.

Personally I don't buy all the optimism about our units increasing in value over time.  I just dont see that being the case 5-10 years from now.


----------



## lizap

heathpack said:


> I think your take on TS ownership is a little bit pie-in-the-sky.  TS companies are always willing to change rules in a manner that screws current owners.  The things that keep this in check are: 1. Legal protections (i.e. You buy something like DVC points which by law can only be modified in certain ways that are not going to significantly degrade the value of your ownership) and 2. The desire not to develop a sleazy reputation that would hurt future sales.  TS companies will modify rules to their own benefit when they feel like they can get away with it.
> 
> The other huge point that I am making is that you DO NOT own points.  Don't go into a Hyatt purchase believing you do.  Understand that you are buying a week.  My strong suggestion is to buy a week that is usable to you. Don't put yourself in the position of relying on Hyatt "doing the right thing".  Because what you think is the "right thing" may well differ from what HRC thinks is the right thing.
> 
> As to Kal's opinion that deeded weeks will become more valuable, I guess I wouldn't be surprised if this happened- at first.  But eventually Hyatt will populate their new points system with legacy weeks.  I doubt Hyatt is going to introduce a points system that's going to be usable for current owners.  Over the years, the deeded weeks will start to become less attractive because new buyers will want into the Pure Points system due to its flexibility.  Eventually our deeded weeks will erode in value.  As I age and possibly don't want to travel to Tahoe any more, I may own a week that I can't use, is hard to sell, and is my problem in perpetuity.  My hope is that there is still enough value in the week that I can unload it when the day comes that I don't want it anymore.  I weight this "hope" against the reality of it possibly making more sense to just sell now, while my week is still worth 75% of what I paid for it.  Smart move might be to sell when the temporary bump in prices comes after the Pure Points system rolls out.
> 
> Personally I don't buy all the optimism about our units increasing in value over time.  I just dont see that being the case 5-10 years from now.




With such a negative view and outlook, selling your Hyatt might be a good choice for you.  I agree with Kal that it will likely take a very long time for current Hyatt owners to be adversely impacted by the PPP system..


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## bdh

Nobody on TUG is buying a TS as an investment.  There are so many nuances in different properties and weeks and even rooms that the discussion on TS value can (and will) go on forever.

There is no "best" TS to buy - different people have different objectives and travel plans.  So whatever works best for your particular scenario is the "best" TS for you.

No points program can trump a deeded week - hench the underlying rational in the Hyatt world of buying a property you'd be happy with returning to if the internal or external exchange format goes south.


----------



## heathpack

bdh said:


> Nobody on TUG is buying a TS as an investment.  There are so many nuances in different properties and weeks and even rooms that the discussion on TS value can (and will) go on forever.
> 
> There is no "best" TS to buy - different people have different objectives and travel plans.  So whatever works best for your particular scenario is the "best" TS for you.
> 
> No points program can trump a deeded week - hench the underlying rational in the Hyatt world of buying a property you'd be happy with returning to if the internal or external exchange format goes south.



Thank you.

Exactly what I'm saying.

Own a week you want and can use.  Understand it will almost certainly erode in value over time.  Don't count on anything like internal trading that you don't have a legal right to (and certainly dont buy an ownership with the intention of primarily using that ownership in a way which you have no legal right to). Look ahead far enough that you understand your exit strategy options.

Blindly believing a TS system will do right by you out of the goodness of their (non-existant) hearts might be considered by some to be "positive" whereas my take is "negative". I disagree. I think my take is rational and realistic.

And when I say that Hyatt has no heart, I am not saying that I think they're mean or expressing paranoia.  I'm saying this because it's quite literally true.  HRC is a corporation- no heart, limited ethics.  Corporations are about making money, plain & simple. Not a value judgement.  Just a statement of facts.


----------



## lizap

heathpack said:


> I think your take on TS ownership is a little bit pie-in-the-sky.  TS companies are always willing to change rules in a manner that screws current owners.  The things that keep this in check are: 1. Legal protections (i.e. You buy something like DVC points which by law can only be modified in certain ways that are not going to significantly degrade the value of your ownership) and 2. The desire not to develop a sleazy reputation that would hurt future sales.  TS companies will modify rules to their own benefit when they feel like they can get away with it.
> 
> The other huge point that I am making is that you DO NOT own points.  Don't go into a Hyatt purchase believing you do.  Understand that you are buying a week.  My strong suggestion is to buy a week that is usable to you. Don't put yourself in the position of relying on Hyatt "doing the right thing".  Because what you think is the "right thing" may well differ from what HRC thinks is the right thing.
> 
> As to Kal's opinion that deeded weeks will become more valuable, I guess I wouldn't be surprised if this happened- at first.  But eventually Hyatt will populate their new points system with legacy weeks.  I doubt Hyatt is going to introduce a points system that's going to be usable for current owners.  Over the years, the deeded weeks will start to become less attractive because new buyers will want into the Pure Points system due to its flexibility.  Eventually our deeded weeks will erode in value.  As I age and possibly don't want to travel to Tahoe any more, I may own a week that I can't use, is hard to sell, and is my problem in perpetuity.  My hope is that there is still enough value in the week that I can unload it when the day comes that I don't want it anymore.  I weight this "hope" against the reality of it possibly making more sense to just sell now, while my week is still worth 75% of what I paid for it.  Smart move might be to sell when the temporary bump in prices comes after the Pure Points system rolls out.
> 
> Personally I don't buy all the optimism about our units increasing in value over time.  I just dont see that being the case 5-10 years from now.




Regarding your defense of DVC, as many have previously stated on the DVC forum, the price one pays for DVC is difficult to impossible to justify; it is usually an emotional decision.  TSs are not an investment, rather a prepayment for future vacations.  We own WKV (2BR plat.) and like you High Sierra.  We do NOT expect to get one cent when we sell these.. This negative chatter reminds me a lot of that over on the Vistana forum prior to the rollout of Sheraton Flex.  So far, not one iota of adverse impact..


----------



## dagger1

heathpack said:


> There were questions being asked about the best point value to MF weeks.  Those owners would care greatly about the creation of the mythical Sapphire weeks, because someone who say strategically buys a Platinum week they can never use might be locked out of trading into units they expected to be able to trade into.  This is exactly what happened to us- we bought a 2BR gold week at High Sierra with the expectation that we could use it some years, and some years trade into Highlands Inn 1BR units with points leftover for more Hyatt travel or trades into II studio units.  Then HRC doubled points values of all units at Highlands Inn, preventing us from accessing many weeks- all the plat and diamond 1BR weeks that we expected to be able to trade into.  It wasn't the end of the world because we can still travel in low season (which we prefer in Carmel anyway).  And we have an underlying week we're happy to use (although interestingly we never have).  HRC very much decreased the value of the points we "own".
> 
> If we had bought at a resort we would rarely travel to (like say Wild Oak), we'd have been more aggrieved.  Owning a week we can use changes the equation completely IMO, makes whatever HRC chooses to bring on ok with us, since we're fine with our owned week.



Totally agree!!  We bought (Platinum) primarily to go to the same resort (with kids and grandkids) every year.  We will trade for Gold/Silver/Bronze weeks to get maximum point usage, not for Diamond or "Sapphire" or other future ultra high point weeks...


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## dagger1

lizap said:


> Regarding your defense of DVC, as many have previously stated on the DVC forum, the price one pays for DVC is difficult to impossible to justify; it is usually an emotional decision.  TSs are not an investment, rather a prepayment for future vacations.  We own WKV (2BR plat.) and like you High Sierra.  We do NOT expect to get one cent when we sell these.. This negative chatter reminds me a lot of that over on the Vistana forum prior to the rollout of Sheraton Flex.  So far, not one iota of adverse impact..


If you ever decide to give away your WKV 2/2 Platinum, I will jump in and pay all closing/escrow/transfer costs!!!  In fact, I will give you real money for that TS!!!


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## lizap

dagger1 said:


> If you ever decide to give away your WKV 2/2 Platinum, I will jump in and pay all closing/escrow/transfer costs!!!  In fact, I will give you real money for that TS!!!




OK, I'll keep you in mind when we're ready to sell..


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## Kal

If your purchase was resale, you're already way ahead of the curve.  Set a reasonable timeline for how long you really will use the resort/system.  The transaction cost prorated over time plus the annual MF will establish the top line annual cost.  Now subtract out the your sales price and you have a number.  If that number works, you're a winner.  If the system goes south (or you do if you give it away) you're very likely still a winner.


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## heathpack

lizap said:


> Regarding your defense of DVC, as many have previously stated on the DVC forum, the price one pays for DVC is difficult to impossible to justify; it is usually an emotional decision.  TSs are not an investment, rather a prepayment for future vacations.  We own WKV (2BR plat.) and like you High Sierra.  We do NOT expect to get one cent when we sell these.. This negative chatter reminds me a lot of that over on the Vistana forum prior to the rollout of Sheraton Flex.  So far, not one iota of adverse impact..



Well I can't really agree with this either.  DVC for us was a very rational purchase, it was pretty easy to justify.  We like Disneyland and Disney World but find both to have a pretty big hassle factor.  We're not too interested in visiting either resort unless we can reduce that hassle factor.  We can stay less expensively off-property. But for us, that increases hassle factor beyond a point we're ok with.  If you know yourself and you can understand when it's a rational decision to pay more for a TS than someone else would.

And on top of that, as I mentioned unthread, our DVC has appreciated in value quite significantly.  Points are a snap to rent.  There is an exit strategy built in if we choose to hold on to our DVC long term.  So purchasing DVC was not in any way an emotional decision for us, it was as well-thought-through as our Hyatt, Starwood and Marriott ownerships.  Actually *more* well-thought-through than our Hyatt purchase because we were more knowledgable when we bought DVC.  Hyatt was our first TS purchase and we did well, but did not fully understand the system at the time we bought. 

What started this whole line of conversation were the questions up thread of a DVC owner considering a Hyatt purchase, he/she was asking for comparisons between the two systems.  DVC owners literally own points & it's easy for them to assume with Hyatt that you literally own points. Very important in that context to understand the real differences between the two products.


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## dagger1

lizap said:


> OK, I'll keep you in mind when we're ready to sell..



Thanks!!  I think you will find it is worth more than you think!!


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## WalnutBaron

dagger1 said:


> Thanks!!  I think you will find it is worth more than you think!!



Agreed. As a former owner at WPORV, one of the big disadvantages of that resort is that it's "voluntary", meaning resale owners cannot trade internally within the Vistana portfolio of resorts. WKV is a "mandatory" resort, allowing resale owners to do so. That alone will keep your valuation high, and should make it a lot easier to sell as well.


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## Kal

Aside from the conspiracy theories, with the Hyatt system you are in a points system AND you own real property.  Yeah, down the road stuff might happen, but in the meantime a large segment of HRC owners rely and use the points very effectively.  For me, the last time I stayed in any of the units I own was 2010.  And for one of the units I have never stayed there.  Thus, for one guy, the points work very well and the end game is when I get tired of it all and bail.


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## dahntahn

Kal said:


> Aside from the conspiracy theories, with the Hyatt system you are in a points system AND you own real property.  Yeah, down the road stuff might happen, but in the meantime a large segment of HRC owners rely and use the points very effectively.  For me, the last time I stayed in any of the units I own was 2010.  And for one of the units I have never stayed there.  Thus, for one guy, the points work very well and the end game is when I get tired of it all and bail.


We own three weeks at Beach House, all bought resale during the big recession at low cost, and have never stayed there at all, using the points at various HRC properties.  We have traveled with friends, family members, and have sent our kids on nice vacations they could not afford.  We love the flexible 
Hyatt system and have no expectation of return on our initial cost.  And to top it off, heartless Hyatt recently upgraded those weeks from 2 bronze and one gold to one gold, one platinum, and one diamond, so we have been very fortunate.  If the whole system collapsed and became worthless, we have had many luxurious vacations at very reasonable cost, in places like Carmel, Sedona, Tahoe, Key West, Colorado, and Bonita Springs.  Count us as HRC enthusiasts.


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## DazedandConfused

dahntahn said:


> We own three weeks at Beach House, all bought resale during the big recession at low cost, and have never stayed there at all, using the points at various HRC properties.  We have traveled with friends, family members, and have sent our kids on nice vacations they could not afford.  We love the flexible
> Hyatt system and have no expectation of return on our initial cost.  And to top it off, heartless Hyatt recently upgraded those weeks from 2 bronze and one gold to one gold, one platinum, and one diamond, so we have been very fortunate.  If the whole system collapsed and became worthless, we have had many luxurious vacations at very reasonable cost, in places like Carmel, Sedona, Tahoe, Key West, Colorado, and Bonita Springs.  Count us as HRC enthusiasts.



Impressive

Have you been able to get what you want (other locations) most of the time? What room sizes did you book and what are easier to get? I assume Aspen (ski season) and Maui (summer) are probably the hardest to match.


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## Tucsonadventurer

We used to be huge fans of VRBO and said we would never buy a timeshare. Now we wish we knew about Hyatt resales years ago. We own 2 weeks ,Sedona and Beach House which we have never used and have traded within Hyatt into 6 to 8 weeks of vacation in luxury each yr. We supplement with credit card hotel and airline points (see million mile secrets.com) and now spend much less for incredible vacations than in our VRBO days


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## Tucsonadventurer

DazedandConfused said:


> Impressive
> 
> Have you been able to get what you want (other locations) most of the time? What room sizes did you book and what are easier to get? I assume Aspen (ski season) and Maui (summer) are probably the hardest to match.


We are going to Maui in May 4 days midweek in a 1 bedroom and often get into Aspen for spring skiing. Getting prime weeks is never a given but with some flexibility and using wait list you can get in


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## dagger1

Tucson traveler said:


> We used to be huge fans of VRBO and said we would never buy a timeshare. Now we wish we knew about Hyatt resales years ago. We own 2 weeks ,Sedona and Beach House which we have never used and have traded within Hyatt into 6 to 8 weeks of vacation in luxury each yr. We supplement with credit card hotel and airline points (see million mile secrets.com) and now spend much less for incredible vacations than in our VRBO days



A lot of people like VRBO and Airbnb but we are a "wheelchair bound" family and they have proved risky for us:  ADA  described units that weren't..  Lots of steps, narrow doorways, etc...  We have never had that issue our timeshares.  We always call well in advance and have always been catered to..


----------



## dahntahn

DazedandConfused said:


> Impressive
> 
> Have you been able to get what you want (other locations) most of the time? What room sizes did you book and what are easier to get? I assume Aspen (ski season) and Maui (summer) are probably the hardest to match.


We are not skiers so have only gone to Beaver Creek and Breckenridge in summer for hiking, and stayed in studios there (which are very nice, with gas fireplace).  Sunset Harbor is a favorite and we had 2 BR there 4 or 5 times.  Never tried Maui yet.  Coconut Plantation is the place we have used the most often, always 2 BR.  Have used 1 BR in Sedona and Carmel.  I don't know how to assess which are easier, as we haven't had any trouble matching so far by placing a wait list request as far in advance as possible, usually 10-12 months.  I am sure you are right about ski season in CO, and we did fail to get anything at Siesta Key, as not very many of their units ever trade so far in my experience.  It seems that the first buyers at new units intend to use their weeks for the first few years, and that makes sense, as they paid developer price.  And I believe that Maui has sold only around half of their weeks so far.


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## Creekway6

Long-time DVC owner (since 2006) more recent Hyatt owner (since 2015) so I'll add some color from our experience with the OP that hasn't been mentioned yet.  One HUGE distinction between the programs in my experience is the availability of discounted cash-reservations via Hyatt Residence Club.  DVC has nothing like that.

I should say that we only use Hyatt Wild Oak Ranch, so my experience with "trading" is limited to that resort.

I picked up a 1400 point week at Wild Oak Ranch for $1.  We've had no problem using that to get split weeks at WOR when we want them.  And, once you're a member, HRC offers some very attractive cash rates to members for additional days.  I've found that I can pick up two additional three-day weekends on a cash basis, for the same cost of annual dues of an additional week.  No acquisition cost, no ongoing commitment.  And much, much greater booking flexibility.  For example, two weeks ago I booked Easter weekend and Memorial Day weekend at WOR on cash via HRC.  Arriving and departing the nights, I want.  So really great flexibility for us.  (The posted rate at Hyatt.com for the room was $587; HRC rate was $260.)

As for comments about how it's impossible to justify the cost of DVC.  I might agree, if you don't plan to ever sell.  For me, I just divested of a portion of my points that I acquired in 2007.  My kids are getting older and we have routinely found ourselves with banked points each of the last two years, so it was time to downsize a bit.

After accounting for all costs -- acquisition, sales commission and dues paid in the last ten years -- each point I used during the period I during which I held the contact cost me .32 cents.  Points rent for $13 - 15 range.  At .32 cents, I was getting a 2-bedroom unit at the most popular resort on earth for less than $25 a night.  Countless great memories at almost no cost.  If you get in and out via resale, you're downside risk is pretty minimal.  Or, in our experience, non-existent.


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## dagger1

This thread is about Hyatt's current resale value...  My question is what has happened to resale value by Hyatt's recent change in some resorts point value?  Some lucky resorts saw an increase in their some of their weeks point value.  I have been wondering if Hyatt could arbitrarily reduce points values?  Move 2200 or 2000 point weeks into a different category thereby severely damaging their "trading" value?


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## lizap

dagger1 said:


> This thread is about Hyatt's current resale value...  My question is what has happened to resale value by Hyatt's recent change in some resorts point value?  Some lucky resorts saw an increase in their some of their weeks point value.  I have been wondering if Hyatt could arbitrarily reduce points values?  Move 2200 or 2000 point weeks into a different category thereby severely damaging their "trading" value?




Sure, they, like any other TS co. can do whatever they want; you are only guaranteed the week you buy.


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## dagger1

lizap said:


> Sure, they, like any other TS co. can do whatever they want; you are only guaranteed the week you buy.



That's what I thought...  I guess basically they could do away with trading altogether..  That would be a way to move folks from fixed week to points...  But then again, if they can arbitrarily change points requirements they can destroy the value of their points owners too...  At least with a deeded week you would get what you bought.  Pure points owners are completely at the mercy of Hyatt...


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## Tucsonadventurer

I can't see Hyatt doing that as it would reduce their reliability and bottom line sales. They aren't going to want to alienate that
many folks.


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## dagger1

Tucson traveler said:


> I can't see Hyatt doing that as it would reduce their reliability and bottom line sales. They aren't going to want to alienate that
> many folks.


I agree, I think it would be unlikely.  It would probably cause quite a stir too if they suddenly reduced Diamond weeks to Gold or Silver week point value.  Not much complaining when they upgraded weeks, but there would be an uproar if they downgraded weeks.  Has this ever happened before, does any long time Hyatt owner know?


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## lizap

Tucson traveler said:


> I can't see Hyatt doing that as it would reduce their reliability and bottom line sales. They aren't going to want to alienate that
> many folks.




Agree completely.  It would not be in Hyatt's (now owned by ILG) best interest to alienate its customer base. Realistically, I see Interval offering an incentive for deeded owners to join the PPP system. I'm going to trust Kal on this, who is far knowlegeable than me, when he says it will be a long time before deeded owners are affected..


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## heathpack

dagger1 said:


> I agree, I think it would be unlikely.  It would probably cause quite a stir too if they suddenly reduced Diamond weeks to Gold or Silver week point value.  Not much complaining when they upgraded weeks, but there would be an uproar if they downgraded weeks.  Has this ever happened before, does any long time Hyatt owner know?



Have they literally downgraded weeks?  Not to my knowledge.

Have they effectively downgraded weeks?  Yes.  Multiple times.

They way Hyatt goes about effectively downgrading weeks is that they *increase* the point values of certain weeks while keeping others the same.  For example, the recent changes to point values in Key West.  When they go about it this way, it's more palatable to owners: the ones who don't care about trading into Key West shrug.  The ones whose weeks were upgraded in points value are happy, they feel like they got something for free.  The owners of lower value weeks who did NOT get their weeks increased in value are upset but Hyatt just says, "hey we sold you a week, and it's fair game for us to change the points system as we see fit".

But for sure all you need to do is be a member of the Hyatt Residence Club FB page and read the posts there- owners of 1100 and 1400 point weeks that were not upgraded now have very slim pickings as to the weeks available to them, many of the 1100 and 1400 pt weeks they could previously trade into are now 2000 pt weeks.  They can't ever trade into them, they don't have enough points.  And other than Sunset Harbor, they can't just choose a smaller unit because most of the units in Key West are 2BR.  And to make things worse for them, now many owners in Key West own way more points than they do, and they compete on equal footing to trade into the remaining 1100 and 1400 pt weeks.

So did some owners get their units downgraded?  Technically no.  But effectively yes.  In a major way.

Just very important to wrap your head around this.  This is the methodology Hyatt uses to downgrade weeks and owners have no recourse on the internal trading side of things.  Your only recourse is to buy a week that you can use.


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## heathpack

lizap said:


> Sure, they, like any other TS co. can do whatever they want; you are only guaranteed the week you buy.



Not true.  There are, for example, legal limits on the manner in which DVC can change points values.  

I'm not splitting hairs- it's just really important to understand your product.  And to be aware that there are very real differences as to how different systems can change things from a legal perspective.  

There are no restrictions on the way in which Hyatt can changes their points allotments.


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## lizap

heathpack said:


> Not true.  There are, for example, legal limits on the manner in which DVC can change points values.
> 
> I'm not splitting hairs- it's just really important to understand your product.  And to be aware that there are very real differences as to how different systems can change things from a legal perspective.
> 
> There are no restrictions on the way in which Hyatt can changes their points allotments.




For the vast majority of TSs, it is true.  Still don't think DVC is worth the cost, even if you can recoup your investment and earn some; I can earn far more investing elsewhere.  As I 've said before, I don't consider TSs an investment;  they are a prepaid expense for future travel. Even if Hyatt's point system is completely revamped to our detriment (which I highly doubt), my gold week at High Sierra (like yours) trades extremely well in II.  Have gotten many Marriott exchanges with my Hyatt points.  Our Hyatt week is like the 'energizer bunny' -just keeps going and going and going.  So happy we purchased it.  Recouped what we paid long ago.  You have to buy into the system that works for you; if you feel like it's not working, it's time to sell..


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## dagger1

heathpack said:


> Have they literally downgraded weeks?  Not to my knowledge.
> 
> Have they effectively downgraded weeks?  Yes.  Multiple times.
> 
> They way Hyatt goes about effectively downgrading weeks is that they *increase* the point values of certain weeks while keeping others the same.  For example, the recent changes to point values in Key West.  When they go about it this way, it's more palatable to owners: the ones who don't care about trading into Key West shrug.  The ones whose weeks were upgraded in points value are happy, they feel like they got something for free.  The owners of lower value weeks who did NOT get their weeks increased in value are upset but Hyatt just says, "hey we sold you a week, and it's fair game for us to change the points system as we see fit".
> 
> But for sure all you need to do is be a member of the Hyatt Residence Club FB page and read the posts there- owners of 1100 and 1400 point weeks that were not upgraded now have very slim pickings as to the weeks available to them, many of the 1100 and 1400 pt weeks they could previously trade into are now 2000 pt weeks.  They can't ever trade into them, they don't have enough points.  And other than Sunset Harbor, they can't just choose a smaller unit because most of the units in Key West are 2BR.  And to make things worse for them, now many owners in Key West own way more points than they do, and they compete on equal footing to trade into the remaining 1100 and 1400 pt weeks.
> 
> So did some owners get their units downgraded?  Technically no.  But effectively yes.  In a major way.
> 
> Just very important to wrap your head around this.  This is the methodology Hyatt uses to downgrade weeks and owners have no recourse on the internal trading side of things.  Your only recourse is to buy a week that you can use.


Exactly, well said!!  The people who were generally the "low" points buyers, who because of the "upgraded" weeks (mainly Key West), have had their tradability affected.  These "low" points owners only remedy is to buy more points or do without the old tradable resorts.  What I was wondering was if Hyatt had ever done the reverse of this:  change weeks that were Diamond or Platinum into Gold, Silver or Bronze weeks, leaving those owners in the same position:  buy more points or just use the week you bought.  The first scenario, "week upgrade", would only effect trading into Key West (or where resorts were upgraded.)  The second scenario, "week downgrade", would effect all trading into every Hyatt resort...


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## dagger1

lizap said:


> For the vast majority of TSs, it is true.  Still don't think DVC is worth the cost, even if you can recoup your investment and earn some; I can earn far more investing elsewhere.  As I 've said before, I don't consider TSs an investment;  they are a prepaid expense for future travel. Even if Hyatt's point system is completely revamped to our detriment (which I highly doubt), my gold week at High Sierra (like yours) trades extremely well in II.  Have gotten many Marriott exchanges with my Hyatt points.  Our Hyatt week is like the 'energizer bunny' -just keeps going and going and going.  So happy we purchased it.  Recouped what we paid long ago.


Totally agree!!  I also like the "motivation" factor (use it or lose it) and the opportunity to get 2-3,4 BR units (we travel as a family or with friends), vs renting several hotel rooms with their resort fees and outrageous "hotel" taxes!!!


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## heathpack

lizap said:


> You have to buy into the system that works for you; if you feel like it's not working, it's time to sell..



Sure.

But you can also rationally discuss the drawbacks of various systems and be displeased with the drawbacks of a system without this meaning "it's time to sell".  Like most things in life, it's not that simplistic, not purely black & white.  

Part of what happens on this forum is that knowledgable people weigh the positives and the negatives of each system and discuss them when others have questions.  There are indeed pretty significant negatives to the Hyatt system.  There are also pretty significant positives.  So people can come to these boards, read these threads, absorb the information, and make informed decisions as to their ownerships.  That's what it's about. 

So IMO discussion of the drawbacks of a system are not necessarily indications that the poster is "unhappy" and that "it's time to sell".  In my case, I know the pros and cons of most things I own, to me that's just part of being an informed owner.


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## alexadeparis

Just got word that a purchase of an Odd Gold 1880 point contract passed ROFR at $2,000. So now I am at 3280 EOY. Hope it will transfer soon in case Hyatt decides to determine a cutoff date for potential future conversion to the new program.


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## Tucsonadventurer

alexadeparis said:


> Just got word that a purchase of an Odd Gold 1880 point contract passed ROFR at $2,000. So now I am at 3280 EOY. Hope it will transfer soon in case Hyatt decides to determine a cutoff date for potential future conversion to the new program.


Congratulations!


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## dagger1

alexadeparis said:


> Just got word that a purchase of an Odd Gold 1880 point contract passed ROFR at $2,000. So now I am at 3280 EOY. Hope it will transfer soon in case Hyatt decides to determine a cutoff date for potential future conversion to the new program.



I'm still waiting to hear whether an EY Platinum 2000 point offer passes ROFR.  Paperwork was submitted 4 weeks ago...


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## Tucsonadventurer

dagger1 said:


> I'm still waiting to hear whether an EY Platinum 2000 point offer passes ROFR.  Paperwork was submitted 4 weeks ago...


Good luck! You should hear any day. They have 30 days to respond I believe


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## dagger1

Tucson traveler said:


> Good luck! You should hear any day. They have 30 days to respond I believe


Thanks!  I was told should be any day now.  Maybe the beginning of next week...


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## dagger1

I was just informed the EY 2000 point Platinum HWOR just passed ROFR.  The closing documents should arrive sometime later this week.  I will update the price on Kal's website as soon as the sale is final.  Am I correct in assuming that it will be another month before we are in Hyatt's system, or am I being optimistic?


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## sts1732

You may be somewhat optimistic in that we had closed on our sale at Sun Set right at a month ago, and they still haven't cashed the 650.00 transfer check. Deed has been recorded and papers sent to Hyatt  for the welcome package to the new owners. Realizing that one has nothing to do with the other. Chief financial officer (wife) is going nutz.......


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## dagger1

sts1732 said:


> You may be somewhat optimistic in that we had closed on our sale at Sun Set right at a month ago, and they still haven't cashed the 650.00 transfer check. Deed has been recorded and papers sent to Hyatt  for the welcome package to the new owners. Realizing that one has nothing to do with the other. Chief financial officer (wife) is going nutz.......



Hmmm, so maybe more like 2 months...  Wow!  Have you updated Kal's ROFR database yet?


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## sts1732

dagger1 said:


> Hmmm, so maybe more like 2 months...  Wow!  Have you updated Kal's ROFR database yet?


Not yet......After dealing with Hyatt and multiple time shares with them. It would seem that unless you owe them money they move at the speed of corporate........not very fast. I would imagine that re-sales would be on the back burner since they didn't make a buck.......Just thinkin


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## sts1732

sts1732 said:


> Not yet......After dealing with Hyatt and multiple time shares with them. It would seem that unless you owe them money they move at the speed of corporate........not very fast. I would imagine that re-sales would be on the back burner since they didn't make a buck.......Just thinkin


In going back and looking at your previous post. I misunderstood you, thinking you meant "the actual Transfer of ownership". Sorry for the confusion. When it came to a yea or nay on ROFER it only took about 3 wks. for them to pass judgement. Once again I apologize.


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## Kal

sts1732 said:


> You may be somewhat optimistic in that we had closed on our sale at Sun Set right at a month ago, and they still haven't cashed the 650.00 transfer check. Deed has been recorded and papers sent to Hyatt  for the welcome package to the new owners. Realizing that one has nothing to do with the other. Chief financial officer (wife) is going nutz.......





dagger1 said:


> I was just informed the EY 2000 point Platinum HWOR just passed ROFR.  The closing documents should arrive sometime later this week.  I will update the price on Kal's website as soon as the sale is final.  Am I correct in assuming that it will be another month before we are in Hyatt's system, or am I being optimistic?


It might just be that you will be entered into the HRC database on the first of the month.  I suggest you call Hyatt to see if your ownership shows up yet.


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## dagger1

Kal said:


> It might just be that you will be entered into the HRC database on the first of the month.  I suggest you call Hyatt to see if your ownership shows up yet.


Kal, I assume you are responding to sts1732.  ROFR paperwork for us was submitted March 24, and we found out ROFR was waived yesterday.  Now we are waiting for the email with closing/transfer paperwork to sign, then have to mail this back to our Closing Agent.  They will then forward our signed documents and Seller's to Hyatt for final transfer.  I thought this might take another month, but looks like it might be more like two months...?


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## Cropman

dagger1 said:


> I was just informed the EY 2000 point Platinum HWOR just passed ROFR.  The closing documents should arrive sometime later this week.  I will update the price on Kal's website as soon as the sale is final.  Am I correct in assuming that it will be another month before we are in Hyatt's system, or am I being optimistic?



Congrats!!


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## dagger1

Kal, when filling out your ROFR info sheet, do you want the amount excepted by the seller (and Hyatt) including or excluding closing/transfer costs?


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## Kal

Just the negotiated purchase price; don't include the closing & transfer $


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## sts1732

dagger1 said:


> Kal, I assume you are responding to sts1732.  ROFR paperwork for us was submitted March 24, and we found out ROFR was waived yesterday.  Now we are waiting for the email with closing/transfer paperwork to sign, then have to mail this back to our Closing Agent.  They will then forward our signed documents and Seller's to Hyatt for final transfer.  I thought this might take another month, but looks like it might be more like two months...?



AS a update to all my confusion. I finally got to talk to someone at Hyatt, concerning the transfer of my recent sale of Sunset. They reminded me that they had 30 days from the receipt of recorded deed and transfer fee to change ownership and list the new owners, as well as send welcome kit.
I had tried numerous times calling the resale dept. listed on the FAQ page in owners clubhouse along with emails to no conclusion. Finally called the GO HYATT number for owners and got to talk with someone who (in his words) had to research it further, but I did get a return call that answered all my questions.


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## dagger1

Kal said:


> Just the negotiated purchase price; don't include the closing & transfer $


Ok, thanks!


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## dagger1

sts1732 said:


> AS a update to all my confusion. I finally got to talk to someone at Hyatt, concerning the transfer of my recent sale of Sunset. They reminded me that they had 30 days from the receipt of recorded deed and transfer fee to change ownership and list the new owners, as well as send welcome kit.
> I had tried numerous times calling the resale dept. listed on the FAQ page in owners clubhouse along with emails to no conclusion. Finally called the GO HYATT number for owners and got to talk with someone who (in his words) had to research it further, but I did get a return call that answered all my questions.


sts1732-has Hyatt processed your Membership/Ownership yet?  Our notarized deeds/closing paperwork/$650 transfer checks were overnighted to Hyatt on Tuesday, should arrive today. I am assuming it could be another month for Hyatt to process...


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## sts1732

dagger1 said:


> sts1732-has Hyatt processed your Membership/Ownership yet?  Our notarized deeds/closing paperwork/$650 transfer checks were overnighted to Hyatt on Tuesday, should arrive today. I am assuming it could be another month for Hyatt to process...



They finally cashed the 650.00 check, and got to my bank yesterday 5/3, 28 days after the fact. They have 30 days from the RECIEPT of papers and check. If you have dated confirmation of receipt, use 30 days from that date. Just remember they move at the speed of corporate...........NOT VERY......Good luck
  PS  they still haven't taken my name off ownership. Seems computers run even slower.


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## dagger1

sts1732 said:


> They finally cashed the 650.00 check, and got to my bank yesterday 5/3, 28 days after the fact. They have 30 days from the RECIEPT of papers and check. If you have dated confirmation of receipt, use 30 days from that date. Just remember they move at the speed of corporate...........NOT VERY......Good luck
> PS  they still haven't taken my name off ownership. Seems computers run even slower.


I received an email last night at 11:29 that our HWOR week transferred into our name yesterday.  Last week Hyatt told the closing company that deed and other documents had been received in May 9th, so it took 30 days from their receipt to transfer complete.  Should hear this week on ROFR another week we are attempting to purchase...


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## DazedandConfused

how long does it take from sending a contract to Hyatt to pass ROFR and then become a full Hyatt owner with ability to book on their comptuter system.


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## bdh

DazedandConfused said:


> how long does it take from sending a contract to Hyatt to pass ROFR and then become a full Hyatt owner with ability to book on their comptuter system.



http://www.bywindkal.com/Hyatt/ResaleTimeline.pdf


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## DazedandConfused

thanks...about 3 months after buyer and seller agree


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## dagger1

DazedandConfused said:


> how long does it take from sending a contract to Hyatt to pass ROFR and then become a full Hyatt owner with ability to book on their comptuter system.


We received notice we passed ROFR on our offer 30 days after sales contract was submitted to Hyatt.  It then took about a week to get the new deed filed, then the new deed and $650 transfer fee were sent to Hyatt.  Then it was 30 days from the time they received the deed/check.


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## Binspira

lizap said:


> We bought at High Sierra four years ago and long ago, recouped our original cost.



What does that mean we bought at High Sierra 4 years ago and have recouped your original cost? How do you recoup your original cost?


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## lizap

Binspira said:


> What does that mean we bought at High Sierra 4 years ago and have recouped your original cost? How do you recoup your original cost?[/QUOTE)
> 
> Taking into account our annual MFs, the value we have received from our TS stays has exceeded what we paid for our TS.


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## Binspira

ok thanks - we are very close to to purchasing in the Hyatt system. The locations and quality look great and suit our lifestyle and places we'd like to visit. I need to get schooled better on where the value is... sound like Pinon, yet wondering if we can get something in Carmel that works since we'd easily go there annually if we didn't trade. Its crazy the prices for Aspen and Hawaii.... we'd for sure buy 2000 points.. if that is the sweet spot...


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## lizap

Binspira said:


> ok thanks - we are very close to to purchasing in the Hyatt system. The locations and quality look great and suit our lifestyle and places we'd like to visit. I need to get schooled better on where the value is... sound like Pinon, yet wondering if we can get something in Carmel that works since we'd easily go there annually if we didn't trade. Its crazy the prices for Aspen and Hawaii.... we'd for sure buy 2000 points.. if that is the sweet spot...



I would go for a 2200 point contract if you can get it past ROFR. Hyatt is buying back a lot of these for the PPP program.  Before you place an offer, I would strongly encourage you to learn about the Hyatt system to make sure it's going to work for you.


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## Binspira

Thanks - I get the gist of how it works, yet, really will know the details as I own it.. pretty much make a choice on keep or trade my unit annually. If trade, I put in my requests and find out 6 months before (or sooner) since owners need to decide 6 months out, yet more notice and flexibility is best (which we can do).. different options as things get closer and trade with II. 

I am wondering if Carmel will make more sense for us because we'd for sure use it more - seems like we'd pay about $5k more, will get 2000-2500 points and about $1,700 MF which seems high relative to Pinon which is only temporary. Not sure why the MF is that much higher, yet do know the cost of that property is probably higher than other areas -- I think we'd use Carmel a lot and also trade it as well. Yes - I have much to learn yet feel the picture is getting much clearer. Even with the new points system which will be a wildcard - I'll look at it as a deeded ownership with point trade option if it comes down that way.


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## dahntahn

We have owned at BH (3 weeks) and CP (1) for about ten years and really enjoy the Hyatt system with its high quality resorts and flexibility.  We always use our CP week 2 but always trade the BH weeks for additional CP time and to go to other HRC properties like SH, Sedona, Carmel.  Many a spring break with our daughters has been at an HRC resort.  We have not used II yet but will next year.  The key is to put in a wait list request as far in advance as you can.
  The Pinion Pointe maintenance fees are lower than all the rest because that property has a small area of shops on the property from which they collect rent to offset overall costs, a situation unique to that resort alone.  So to compare MFs you have to see Piñon Pointe as an outlier.
All four of our weeks were bought resale, several during the big recession at what are now very reasonable prices, and have seen the BH weeks get a boost in points as well.  We were introduced to time sharing via Disney which we bought at developer price (ouch) when our kids were small, and traded into Beach House one spring break and discovered there was a secondary market for Hyatts and never looked back.  
I cannot imagine that you will be disappointed if you buy into HRC via resale.


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## dagger1

I am attending an "owner update" at HWOR Thursday morning.  Any questions I can ask for anyone?  Or should I just cancel?


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## Cropman

Personally, I can't wait to go to one.  I want to know as much as I can about the new system, good or bad.


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## WalnutBaron

Dagger, I assume you know that the sales weasel will tell you all the reasons why your resale weeks are essentially worthless and that the only way to retain value will be to convert to the points program. You can play that one of two ways: 1) Nod knowingly and tell the sales weasel you're quite happy with what you have; 2) Re-focus him/her on the details of the points program, where it applies, and when it will be fully implemented. Either way, you're going to get 25% truth mixed in with 75% B.S. and then it will be your job (along with your friends here at TUG) to distill the truth from the slop. March on, Comrade!


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## Kal

dagger1 said:


> I am attending an "owner update" at HWOR Thursday morning.  Any questions I can ask for anyone?  Or should I just cancel?


If you have a smart phone, set it on the table and record the conversation.  My guess is if you tell them you are recording they will say it's not allowed for some off-the-wall (proprietary??) reason.  So don't tell them a recording is underway.  That way we will all pay admission to this feature presentation!!  With those big $$ you can buy into the PPP or fine beverage (whichever is less).

Just think of the fun we can have dissecting the huckster talk into TUG Talk.


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## lizap

Cropman said:


> Personally, I can't wait to go to one.  I want to know as much as I can about the new system, good or bad.



Unfortunately, I don't think you're going to learn anything from a salesperson. I'm disappointed that ILG has not communicated with present owners what our options will be going forward.  I'm pretty sure there's a lot of misinformation out there...


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## lizap

dahntahn said:


> We have owned at BH (3 weeks) and CP (1) for about ten years and really enjoy the Hyatt system with its high quality resorts and flexibility.  We always use our CP week 2 but always trade the BH weeks for additional CP time and to go to other HRC properties like SH, Sedona, Carmel.  Many a spring break with our daughters has been at an HRC resort.  We have not used II yet but will next year.  The key is to put in a wait list request as far in advance as you can.
> The Pinion Pointe maintenance fees are lower than all the rest because that property has a small area of shops on the property from which they collect rent to offset overall costs, a situation unique to that resort alone.  So to compare MFs you have to see Piñon Pointe as an outlier.
> All four of our weeks were bought resale, several during the big recession at what are now very reasonable prices, and have seen the BH weeks get a boost in points as well.  We were introduced to time sharing via Disney which we bought at developer price (ouch) when our kids were small, and traded into Beach House one spring break and discovered there was a secondary market for Hyatts and never looked back.
> I cannot imagine that you will be disappointed if you buy into HRC via resale.



PP MFs are very likely to go up once it's sold out.


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## dagger1

Kal said:


> If you have a smart phone, set it on the table and record the conversation.  My guess is if you tell them you are recording they will say it's not allowed for some off-the-wall (proprietary??) reason.  So don't tell them a recording is underway.  That way we will all pay admission to this feature presentation!!  With those big $$ you can buy into the PPP or fine beverage (whichever is less).
> 
> Just think of the fun we can have dissecting the huckster talk into TUG Talk.


Haha, I better learn how to use the recording function of this iPhone!!  I AM going to use the timer!!


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## Kal

dagger1 said:


> Haha, I better learn how to use the recording function of this iPhone!!  I AM going to use the timer!!


Just make sure your iPhone is fully charged.  We'll show you how to download the audio file to the computer.  Once there we can crop the file to keep "interesting factoids".


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