# Selling HHV to fund DVC Aulani



## ALF_ENG (Jan 10, 2012)

Hello.

I started a thread about RCI trading of DVC points over on that forum, but they recommended posting a related question here.

I'm currently planning on selling my 1BR Lagoon tower (Platinum week, ocean view) to fund the purchase of 160 DVC points at Aulani.

I'm doing so partly for diversification, partly because it's very difficult (bordering on impossible) to book at Lagoon tower anymore, and partly because I don't think I can afford three MF's in the long-term.

Doing this assumes I'll like staying at Aulani more than HHV, but also drops me from the rolls of HGVC Elite status.  I know they sure push that Elite thing a lot in sales, but how big a deal is it really?

Paying a few bucks more for reservation fees isn't that big a deal to me, and I've never been able to book HGVC 30 days out with cash so the 10% discount doesn't mean much either.  Losing the "automatic" room upgrade when staying at Hilton Hotels, however, will be noticeable (I travel several times a year for work).

So my question for the group is whether selling is a rash decision or not?

If MF's weren't an issue I'd probably keep HHV, but I'm worried they're going to continue their meteoric rise.  On the other hand, with all the extra demand for Lagoon rooms I'm wondering if I shouldn't keep it and try to rent it out myself every year for more than the maintenance fees?  And perhaps resale values will go up once the economy recovers?

Thanks,
ALF


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## slum808 (Jan 11, 2012)

Alf,

Is 160 points enough for your Aulani stay? I'm staying in a 1-bed island view this weekend, which is the lowest season and its costing me 74 points. 160 points don't go along way at Aulani. Is your HHV an anual 1-bed. Doesn't seem like a fair trade. You can rent DVC points from owners for $10-13 a point, so I might suggest you rent some points for a first stay? As others have posted in your other thread, Aulani may have a completly different feel in a couple years. Renting or doing a direct exchange with a DVC owner might be the way to go for now. If you're interested in a trip report for Aulani send me a PM next week. 

Steve


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## gnorth16 (Jan 11, 2012)

ALF_ENG said:


> Hello.
> 
> I started a thread about RCI trading of DVC points over on that forum, but they recommended posting a related question here.
> 
> ...



I don't understand this.  If you own at HHV, then you get first crack at your unit size/view/season at 12 months.  Unless you own a gold season and are consistently trying to book platinum or a larger unit, then you should be set.  If I can use my Strip points and get a 2BR OV in the Lagoon tower, you are not putting enough research or time into it....Or maybe my obsessive nature payed off????


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## ALF_ENG (Jan 11, 2012)

>> I don't understand this. If you own at HHV, then you get first crack
>> at your unit size/view/season at 12 months.

The problem is I own a 1BR but need a 2BR and only travel at Chrismastime because that's when school is out.  A 1BR was fine 10 years ago when I didn't have a family, but it's a wee bit cramped now.

Since I don't own an "event" week, I can't book 12 months out.  Since it's the last week of the year I always have to bank my points in case I can't get in so I don't lose them.  Catch 22 -- I'm unable to book 12 months out.

But interestingly, I can book *24* months out via RCI exchange at DVC.  I wonder if that has anything to do with the lack of inventory 1-year out?


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## ALF_ENG (Jan 11, 2012)

slum808 said:


> Alf,
> 
> Is 160 points enough for your Aulani stay? I'm staying in a 1-bed island view this weekend, which is the lowest season and its costing me 74 points. 160 points don't go along way at Aulani. Is your HHV an anual 1-bed. Doesn't seem like a fair trade. You can rent DVC points from owners for $10-13 a point, so I might suggest you rent some points for a first stay? As others have posted in your other thread, Aulani may have a completly different feel in a couple years. Renting or doing a direct exchange with a DVC owner might be the way to go for now. If you're interested in a trip report for Aulani send me a PM next week.
> 
> Steve



No, we really need 320 points but can't afford it right now.  One of the nice things about DVC is it's really easy to add points in small increments.

Yeah this is certainly the season to go -- it'd be awesome!  Unfortunately my life is now totally dictated by school schedules. 

FWIW we also plan to use the points in Orlando & Anaheim, so I think it's probably a good move for us in general.  It's more a financial pressure thing that only Daddy seems to get hung up on. 

ALF


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## slum808 (Jan 11, 2012)

ALF_ENG said:


> >>The problem is I own a 1BR but need a 2BR and only travel at Chrismastime because that's when school is out.  A 1BR was fine 10 years ago when I didn't have a family, but it's a wee bit cramped now.



That is one of the nice things about DVC, as long as you're willing to spend the extra points, you can book any dates. I got an OV studio for some family this Christmas and they loved it. I hear you on that whole school thing. I want to ski and that leaves only Christmas or spring break for us. Good luck on your plans.


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## alwysonvac (Jan 12, 2012)

Just some additional things to consider.....

(1) Booking a Christmas week may not get easier with DVC. Home Resort Owners will be competing for that time. Just make sure you book as soon as the booking window isavailable (11 months for Home Resort owners / 7 months for non-Home Resort Owners).

Discussion of the 7 month window for XMAS at DisneyWorld: 
http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=2587463
http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=2349775

(2) Christmas week is during DVC's premier season which is the highest point value. A week in a standard one bedroom in premier season costs 322 DVC points at Aulani with MF close to $6 per point, you'll pay close to $1800 in Maintenance Fees (much higher than a HGVC Lagoon Tower one bedroom MF)
Aulani 2012 Point Chart -http://advc.disney.go.com/media/dvc...sChart_DisneyVacationClub_AulaniVillas_v2.pdf

(3) Timeshare Maintenance Fee will continue to rise. Just like everything else, things just cost more such as labor, insurance, utilities, etc. 
DVC Maintenance history - http://dvcnews.com/index.php/dvc-program/owning-dvc/faqs?task=view&id=51

(4) Christmas week is one of the most crowded times of the year at DisneyWorld. The parks will actually closes due to capacity.
http://touringplans.com/walt-disney-world/capacity-closures
http://www.wdwmagic.com/Attractions/Magic-Kingdom/News.htm (this has a list of past Magic Kingdom park closures due to capacity for 2011, 2010 & 2009)

However the Magic Kingdom Fireworks are amazing if you can deal with the obscene crowds
Magic Kingdom New Years Eve Fireworks (11 minutes) - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A3U5WBp-C0o (NOTE: It’s a little blurry for the first 13 seconds but then it's great) 
Last minutes of the Magic Kingdom fireworks replayed but from a distance to see the full scale (2 minutes) - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VI-ZjnTzMH4

(5) If you can go to Orlando anytime in the summer, it's currently cheaper to do an RCI trade using your HGVC week to get a two bedroom than to use your DVC points. Sometimes holiday weeks during Spring break, Thanksgiving and XMAS become available via an exchange but I won't count on it.
NOTE: This requires some flexibility in travel dates and DVC resorts. I sold most of DVC points and do exchanges instead with an occasional DVC point rental when I need a specific date and/or unit size.

Good Luck with your decision


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## alwysonvac (Jan 12, 2012)

ALF_ENG said:


> >> I don't understand this. If you own at HHV, then you get first crack
> >> at your unit size/view/season at 12 months.
> 
> The problem is I own a 1BR but need a 2BR and only travel at Chrismastime because that's when school is out.  A 1BR was fine 10 years ago when I didn't have a family, but it's a wee bit cramped now.
> ...



XMAS week will be difficult to book at most high demand resorts.

Are you using the changeable reservation option during this peak time? See this thread - http://tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=81779
Are you checking back often? It appears that HGV is releasing inventory after the 9 month mark. See this thread - http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=134694
What about the Big Island?  See this thread - http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=94978


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## ALF_ENG (Jan 12, 2012)

Yep you just listed my main reasons for avoiding Disney parks during the holidays.   We much prefer Hawaii at that time for a host of other reasons as well.

Unfortunately, due to school schedule the only times we can go anywhere are during the peak point seasons.  This will be true whether it's HHV or Aulani, which is why I was interested in the 24-month advanced RCI reservations touted in the DVC sales presentation and "owner's manual".

The MF issue is one of the primary reasons to avoid timeshares.  The cost of a hotel room at HHV hasn't gone up a penny over the past 10 years, which means their maintenance costs have remained flat.  Or are HHV owners somehow paying for hotel maintenance?  I'm not by any stretch giving DVC a pass, as theirs are outrageous too, but HHV MFs have skyrocketed and IMHO it's without justification.

I agree with "Big Spike" on that thread about staggered releases of blocks of rooms.  Hilton is holding inventory so they can try to sell it for "retail" and only after they fail to do so are the rooms released to us lowly owners who "don't pay anything" for them.

We saw this attitude multiple times with Hilton hotels when we used our HHONORS conversion for 1-week stays.  For example, a couple years ago we spent the extra points to stay at Grand Wailea on Maui and when we checked in we asked about complimentary room upgrades.  They said they had some available but couldn't upgrade us because we weren't "paying to be there".  Which is true unless you count the 60 grand shelled out for the "privilege" of being an owner.

Make no mistake, Hilton books our timeshares for $450/nite and that's pure gravy for them because it's ON TOP OF the tremendous amount we've already paid.  In their eyes, letting us use the rooms is their lowest priority.

But I digress...

With regard to Big Island, we go there every year as well.  The idea is two weeks at the end of the year when school is out and nobody's at the office anyhow.  I suppose we could book two weeks on Big Island, but it's nice to have the variety.


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## ALF_ENG (Jan 12, 2012)

One of my wife's big concerns is losing HHonors Gold status and Elite status.  How much consideration should those be given in this decision process?


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## PigsDad (Jan 12, 2012)

ALF_ENG said:


> One of my wife's big concerns is losing HHonors Gold status and Elite status.  How much consideration should those be given in this decision process?


If you have the Hilton Amex credit card, you can pretty easily obtain HHonors Gold status w/ $20K annual purchases.  With the Surpass Hilton Amex ($65 yearly fee), you can obtain Diamond status w/ $40K annual purchases.

Kurt


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## sjuhawk_jd (Jan 12, 2012)

ALF_ENG said:


> Hello.
> 
> I started a thread about RCI trading of DVC points over on that forum, but they recommended posting a related question here.
> 
> ...



(1) By doing this, you are continuing to perpetuate your initial mistakes of buying from the developer (I am assuming all your existing purchases were developer since you mentioned HGVC elite status). 

This way, you are buying high (from developer) and selling low (resale). 

(2) You are also going to continue to perpetuate your second mistake, not buying what you need (2 bed, event week) and buying what you can afford (but does not meet your needs). 

I suggest that you save for few years, and then buy Aulani or whatever in resale at the point level which meets your family needs (size and season).


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## alwysonvac (Jan 12, 2012)

ALF_ENG said:


> .....
> Unfortunately, due to school schedule the only times we can go anywhere are during the peak point seasons.  This will be true whether it's HHV or Aulani, which is why I was interested in the 24-month advanced RCI reservations touted in the DVC sales presentation and "owner's manual".



This isn't unique to DVC. Any RCI member can make a request up to two years in advance but that doesn't mean all resorts are available two years in advance. Some RCI resorts can be confirmed 24 months but there are plenty of others that are just not available more than a year in advance. Deposits will vary based on the resort.

For Example...
- Only RCI Weeks Resorts can be reserved up to 24 months in advance.
- RCI Points Resort can be reserved up to 10 months in advance
- Disney generally doesn't deposit more than a year in advance.
- HGVC does RCI deposits more than a year in advance but I've never seen HGVC developed resorts 24 months in advance.


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## ALF_ENG (Jan 12, 2012)

>> This way, you are buying high (from developer) and selling low (resale). 
Is that ever not the case?  The worst part is the way they work the MF the difference in purchase from developer vs. retail becomes negligible over time -- for most of the ones I've seen EXCEPT HGVC.  For some reason Hilton manages to charge an insane premium compared to other developers.  The only reason I own Lagoon is because I got it much cheaper, back shortly after they first opened it up.

>> You are also going to continue to perpetuate your second mistake
That's true except it appears easier to add points over time with DVC, resale or new.  Hilton makes it very difficult because you must spend $10-20K anytime you want more points, assuming you want those points to apply towards Elite status, etc.

But all good points, especially how high MF are for Aulani 320 points.  I'm now leaning towards not selling back HHV, but it will mean temporary financial pain.  If I lean on HGVC points for hotel stays, however, it balances out better over time.

Cheers,
ALF


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## jdunn1 (Jan 12, 2012)

No one has stated this yet, but it is only a matter of time (less than a year, maybe much less) before DVC Hawaii shows up in RCI.  Why not just trade into that resort and save a bunch of money?  Also, if HGVC is a financial burden, why not sell, NOW!!!  I can't immagine you will ever get more for your week than now.  Just my thoughts.


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## alwysonvac (Jan 12, 2012)

I think you should sell it too due to your very limited vacation window. I just won't suggest using the cash towards a more expensive resort like Aulani when you're already complaining about HGVC MFs which are lower than the Hawaii resorts for Disney, Marriott & Starwood.

Yeah you'll lose HHonors status and HGVC Elite Status. But as previously stated there are other ways in getting HHonors status. You really answered your own question about the value of HGVC elite status in your first post. If you are not getting any benefit from it then it's not worth it. 

Here's a link to previous discussions about HGVC Elite status.
http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=138583
http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=136521


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## ALF_ENG (Jan 13, 2012)

*Value of week*



jdunn1 said:


> No one has stated this yet, but it is only a matter of time (less than a year, maybe much less) before DVC Hawaii shows up in RCI.  Why not just trade into that resort and save a bunch of money?  Also, if HGVC is a financial burden, why not sell, NOW!!!  I can't immagine you will ever get more for your week than now.  Just my thoughts.



It won't be worth more when the economy recovers?

-ALF


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## GregT (Jan 13, 2012)

ALF_ENG said:


> It won't be worth more when the economy recovers?
> 
> -ALF



ALF,

I don't think so -- if it is worth more, I think it will be a modest increase (perhaps 20%) over what it is today.  I think it's really hard for when one of these things drops in value, for that not to become permanent.

I bought my first MOC unit direct from developer -- and the second one (at resale) for about 60% of the cost of the first one.  If I buy a third (and I'm trying), it would probably be for 90% of the cost of the second one.

When the economy fully recovers, I think all three MIGHT stabilize at my purchase price of the second one.

I think it is more likely that all three will continue to drop as MFs continue to rise.

Funny things, these timeshares!

Best,

Greg


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## linsj (Jan 13, 2012)

*Alf, *for what it's worth, Hilton resales are selling for more today than they were the past two years. Whether they'll go up or not is anybody's guess.


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## slum808 (Jan 13, 2012)

jdunn1 said:


> No one has stated this yet, but it is only a matter of time (less than a year, maybe much less) before DVC Hawaii shows up in RCI.



While I totally agree that Aulani should show up in RCI, I highly doubt a Christmas week will show up which is the only time Alf can travel.


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## gnorth16 (Jan 13, 2012)

Why not just keep your HHV and rent it out.  That will easily cover your MF and then some.  You keep your elite status and you are off the hook for MF's...
Unless it is the equity you want from the sale of your 1BR HHV...


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## sjuhawk_jd (Jan 13, 2012)

gnorth16 said:


> Why not just keep your HHV and rent it out.  That will easily cover your MF and then some.  You keep your elite status and you are off the hook for MF's...
> Unless it is the equity you want from the sale of your 1BR HHV...



Which isn't much to write home about


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## ALF_ENG (Jan 13, 2012)

gnorth16 said:


> Why not just keep your HHV and rent it out.  That will easily cover your MF and then some.  You keep your elite status and you are off the hook for MF's...
> Unless it is the equity you want from the sale of your 1BR HHV...



Excellent idea if I can make it happen.  Ran into roadblocks when I tried before.  They said I personally had to check in and was personally responsible for the room, which doesn't seem right in the latter and is impossible in the former.

ALF


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## presley (Jan 13, 2012)

ALF_ENG said:


> Excellent idea if I can make it happen.  Ran into roadblocks when I tried before.  They said I personally had to check in and was personally responsible for the room, which doesn't seem right in the latter and is impossible in the former.
> 
> ALF



Alf, click on the link to DeniseM's website in her signature on her posts.  Read her page regarding renting out timeshares for owners.


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## gnorth16 (Jan 14, 2012)

No issues with renting, just keep it on the down low and make sure there is a contract and a guest certificate.  Book something and when you find a renter email them the rez in your name.  Take a non refundable deposit ($100 is fine - only to cover the guest cert. and change it back if they fall through) and then change the rez to their name.  Once they are fully happy with the rez, fully payment is required.

HHV is easy to rent.  Don't price it too high and make sure you are on TUG and redweek.  Look at comparable listings.  I have seen 1BR (view not specified) asking $4000...


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## TUGmember100 (Jul 10, 2012)

slum808 said:


> Alf,
> 
> Is 160 points enough for your Aulani stay? I'm staying in a 1-bed island view this weekend, which is the lowest season and its costing me 74 points. 160 points don't go along way at Aulani. Is your HHV an anual 1-bed. Doesn't seem like a fair trade. You can rent DVC points from owners for $10-13 a point, so I might suggest you rent some points for a first stay? As others have posted in your other thread, Aulani may have a completly different feel in a couple years. Renting or doing a direct exchange with a DVC owner might be the way to go for now. If you're interested in a trip report for Aulani send me a PM next week.
> 
> Steve



Hi Steve,
How do I go about renting or finding a DVC owner to rent DVC Aulani?  We would love to plan a trip to Aulani in the future.  Thanks!


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## slum808 (Jul 10, 2012)

There are several sites, but I use http://www.mouseowners.com send me a pm if you need more info.


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## MichaelColey (Jul 10, 2012)

You're going to be spending a ton of money upfront.  Don't neglect to factor that into your cost calculations.  Many people just look at their MFs and think "320 points at $6 each -- it just costs me $2k to stay there a week", without considering the sizable opportunity cost (and/or financing cost) of the $30-40k the spent on the points.



ALF_ENG said:


> One of my wife's big concerns is losing HHonors Gold status and Elite status. How much consideration should those be given in this decision process?





PigsDad said:


> If you have the Hilton Amex credit card, you can pretty easily obtain HHonors Gold status w/ $20K annual purchases. With the Surpass Hilton Amex ($65 yearly fee), you can obtain Diamond status w/ $40K annual purchases.


Exactly right, and what I was going to suggest.  That's how I earn my Diamond status.

You can also earn status through stays (or nights).  Gold is 16 stays or 36 nights.  Diamond is 28 stays or 60 nights.  Award stays count, too.

FWIW, I wouldn't value elite status (especially Gold) all that much, depending on where you stay.  If you stay at Hampton Inns or Embassy Suites, the benefits are pretty much worthless (because everyone already gets breakfast and there usually aren't any rooms to be upgraded to).  As an elite member, my favorite Hilton brand is Hilton Garden Inn, where status gets me a good, free breakfast.  Upgrades aren't all that common domestically, but most international travelers have good success.

Reading this thread, I sure am glad I have the flexibility to travel in the off season.  My cost to exchange into a 2BR DVC unit or a 2BR HHV Lagoon View unit is a fraction of what the maintenance fees would be.  Plus, I've seen what airfare to Hawaii costs close to Christmas.  Yikes.


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## SmithOp (Jul 10, 2012)

I would not give up Elite considering what you paid to get it, soak up all the perks you can.  There may be an Aulani owner that would like to try HGVC and do a trade.


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## pianodinosaur (Jul 10, 2012)

I am really intrigued by the widely divergent opinions expressed on this thread.  Everyone has made very good points and I respect all the opinions posted previously.  Here are my two cents:

I think it would not be in the OPs best interest to sell HHV resale inorder to purchase DVC direct from the developer.  I think it would be much better financially to continue trading via RCI using HGVC points.  If the OP wants additional weeks, I think it would be far superior to purchase DVC resale or another HGVC resale.


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## TheWizz (Jul 16, 2012)

I'll throw in another idea:  purchase another timeshare from an alternate company that has resorts in HI, e.g. Marriott or Diamond (DRI).  I'll admit I don't know a lot about Marriott other than they have a few HI resorts to choose from.  I own several DRI units and a few years ago converted my deeded units into THE Club points for < $3000.  This has allowed me to trade for many years with DRI resorts, including two pretty nice ones on Kauai and Maui.  I see DRI as a nice compliment to my HGVC Points since HGVC concentrates on Oahu and The Big Island.  You can get DRI units pretty cheap and the key is to buy a deeded week with them and not direct points as the MFs on those go up too fast.   One can buy a DRI Las Vegas unit for practically nothing and they have reasonable MFs, compared to HI units.  Here's an example of one for sale:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-BR-LOCKOF...10413810688?pt=Timeshares&hash=item48461adc00

You can probably find similar deals on TUGs BB as well.  If you were in The Club, a unit like this (Polo Towers) would get you 7-10 days in a 2BR unit on Kauai when traded via points.  Best of luck in your decision.


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