# To Buy or Not To Buy: The Euro Now



## pedro47 (Aug 14, 2012)

Is this a good time to purchase euros for a fall vacation trip in Europe ?

The euro is selliing at 1.23 today.


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## LAX Mom (Aug 14, 2012)

If I had a trip planned for the fall I'd buy about half the Euros now and get the rest using ATM's once I'm there. That's a good exchange rate compared to the past few years. I like to have some on arrival for transportation and first day expenses.


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## Ken555 (Aug 14, 2012)

I'm about to pay for train tickets (in £ & €) now for a fall trip, in part because of the exchange rate. I won't get any cash, though, since it doesn't pay (at least for me) to pay the fees to get € here.


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## LAX Mom (Aug 14, 2012)

Ken555 said:


> I'm about to pay for train tickets (in £ & €) now for a fall trip, in part because of the exchange rate. I won't get any cash, though, since it doesn't pay (at least for me) to pay the fees to get € here.



I agree with Ken. I never get euros in the US because of the fees involved. I like to keep some euros here for my next trip, just enough to get transportation  to the hotel. 

You can almost always find an ATM in the airport when you arrive and get enough to last for a few days. My Marriott Chase VISA doesn't add any additional fees for foreign transactions so I use that when possible.

But if you are planning on exchanging for some euros in the US before you leave, then I would get some now. That exchange rate looks pretty good to me!


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## Passepartout (Aug 14, 2012)

I kept some leftovers in the home safe for 'seed money' for the next trip. Anyone want some $1.45 Euros? Maybe not my wisest move. Otoh, I think I had some $0.88 ones stashed from early in the changeover. Wish I had more of those.

I think the current exchange is good, but wouldn't get more than half of what you anticipate needing for an upcoming trip- and then only if you can get them with no commission, delivered free.

Jim


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## pedro47 (Aug 14, 2012)

Thanks everyone my bank is only going to charge a flat fee of $15.00 plus the exchange rate for the cost of the euros.


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## Ken555 (Aug 14, 2012)

pedro47 said:


> Thanks everyone my bank is only going to charge a flat fee of $15.00 plus the exchange rate for the cost of the euros.



Still, is it really worthwhile to do so? Are you doing this just for convenience? I always just use an ATM as soon as I land and get enough for a few days or longer - I don't like carrying loads of cash with me (especially since I only use cash for those places I can't use a credit card). I also keep a couple hundred (or more) US$ with me at all times as well just in case since I can always use that anywhere without much of a problem if pushed to do so.


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## x3 skier (Aug 14, 2012)

Like others, I use leftovers from the last trip and get what I need from an ATM when I get there.

When I don't have the currency, like my upcoming trip to Iceland, I still just use the ATM.

Worrying about the exchange rate is best left to professional currency dealers. Even they get it wrong 50% of the time since there is always a buyer and a seller. 

Cheers


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## andex (Aug 14, 2012)

looking at a chart i would say this is a nice place to buy. good support at 1.20
http://www.google.com/finance?q=EURUSD
just my opinion!


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## moonstone (Aug 15, 2012)

Our DS was married in March but leaving on their honeymoon to Rome this Sat. The kids got lots of Euros for Wedding gifts (the Euro was trading around $1.50 Cndn at the time. Brian didnt feel comfortable having so much cash laying around their apt for months so he took them to the bank, exchanged them into Cnd $'s and deposited them into his acct. He went to the bank yesterday to get some of the Euros back (will use his ATM card to get more while away) and was amazed at the difference in the exchange rate. He figures they've made quite a few hundred dollars by doing the double exchange.
~Diane


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## Travelclam (Aug 17, 2012)

pedro47 said:


> Thanks everyone my bank is only going to charge a flat fee of $15.00 plus the exchange rate for the cost of the euros.



That's kind of a hefty fee to charge.  Using the ATM to get euro when you are in Europe costs anywhere from $3 to $6 per transaction.  You get the euro when you get there right at the airport and save you about $10.


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## Carolinian (Aug 18, 2012)

pedro47 said:


> Thanks everyone my bank is only going to charge a flat fee of $15.00 plus the exchange rate for the cost of the euros.



The real question is WHAT exchange rate?  Currency conversion profits of banks and exchange houses come from two things, the spread between buying and selling rates, and commissions, sometimes both.  Always compare the rate offered with the mid-market rate at an independent source like www.xe.com

With an ATM in Europe, you will get the mid-market interbank rate, the best rate an individual is ever going to get.  Most banks, and even worse airport exchange desks and hotel exchange desks, give you a much less advantageous rate.  As to fees, if you use the right card, like CapOne, you will be charged no fees.  Some others, mostly credit unions will pass on a 1% fee from Circuss or Plus and if applicable a small fee for the machine owner.  Most major banks pop you for 3% plus an out of network charge.

The other real questoin is, what is the value of the euro going to do, and that is a bit unpredictable, but ''go up'' is certainly the least likely.

Here is a thread on another timeshare site that I started sometime ago about the future of the euro with a lot of links to news and opinion articles:

http://www.timeshareforums.com/forums/showthread.php/121524-Whither-the-euro


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## WinniWoman (Aug 18, 2012)

Ken555 said:


> Still, is it really worthwhile to do so? Are you doing this just for convenience? I always just use an ATM as soon as I land and get enough for a few days or longer - I don't like carrying loads of cash with me (especially since I only use cash for those places I can't use a credit card). I also keep a couple hundred (or more) US$ with me at all times as well just in case since I can always use that anywhere without much of a problem if pushed to do so.



But, the banks charge ATM fees and exchange rate fees as well anyway so what difference does it make?

I brought some British pounds (200) with me (purchased at my bank) for convenience when I traveled to Scotland and ended up using my Capital One credit card most of the time. I actually needed very little cash anyway because my card was accepted for everything. (I even brought a chip and pin card with me, but never had to use it). I ended up coming home with a few pounds as DH forgot he had some in his pocket. otherwise, we would have used them up at the airport.


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## Carolinian (Aug 18, 2012)

mpumilia said:


> But, the banks charge ATM fees and exchange rate fees as well anyway so what difference does it make?



It can make a big difference

ATM's charge the mid-market interbank rate, basically the mid-point begtween buying and selling rates, one of the best an individual can get.  Banks and exchange houses can have spreads up to 11% between buying and selling rates, with most of that typically on the side of the currency you are most likely to give them or on the side of the currency you are most likely to want.

ATM fees comes in three varieties, all of which can be avoided.  First there is the percentage fee, 1% for most credit unions and some small banks, 3% for most large banks, and 0% for the best banks such as Capital One. Avoid ATM cards from most large banks.  You can open a CapOne account online to get the 0% fee cards if you live in an area where they do not have branches.  Second, some banks charge an ''out of network'' fee for using someone else's machne.  Use a card like CapOne or some credit unions that do not imipose this fee.  Last are the fees for the ATM owner, and here it can depend on the country.  In the UK, most machines attached to banks to not charge such fees and the ATM screen tells you that, but some private ATM's do.  In Greece, on the other hand, all ATM's charge such fees but the better guidebooks will let you which are cheapest.  Some dbit cards, like CapOne will actually reimburse these fees if they are charged, so that you still end up without a fee.  The best way to avoid these fees is to be careful of what is in your wallet.

I use CapOne and two credit union ATM cards, CapOne as the primary, and that gives me good rates and no fees.  I work and live in Europe, and my major bank accounts are in the US, so I pay careful attention to bank policies on these things.  When I first came over here, I had a Wachovia account, but their 3% plus out of network fees were outrageous and I closed that account.

In some countries the local exchange houses offer great rates and no commission, as they do where I work, but in every country that adopted the euro where I have been able to compare, rates got much worse and commisions got higher or were imposed for the first time after the euro came in.  Exchange houses are poor value in the eurozone, although they can offer decent rates in places like the UK, Switzerland, and eastern Europe if you check around.  For the eurozone, ATM's using the right cards are the best bet.


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## Margariet (Aug 18, 2012)

I never change money before we travel outside the Euro zone. Must be the trauma we had after exchanging all the time when we traveled through Europe years ago. I always use credit cards and ATM's. Sometimes i win, sometimes I loose, I guess. In my idea it's all about pennies and it won't make me richt. But maybe I'm wrong! I do remember how I had to cancel an expensive booking which I had paid before the Euro went in a free fall. I received all the money back on my credit card account, converted in Euro's, but it was so much more than I had paid. It was only then that I realized I had made enough money to stay a few nights in an expensive place! But I am sure I also have lost money by other fluctuations. But again: sometimes you win, sometimes you loose. Who knows, if I exchange money I would be really scared that I might loose it or forget where I put it.


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## Ken555 (Aug 18, 2012)

I think it really depends on how much cash you need. If you can get by with some cab fare and a bit extra for misc purchases, it likely won't matter much where you get it (but I'm of the opinion ATMs are the most convenient and one of the best rates around - see Carolinian's post for a much better definition of this). 

As an example, my upcoming trip includes 10 nights in the UK and then 18 nights in Holland and Germany. I doubt I'll use more than £200 and €400 cash for the entire trip, since most will be on credit cards. So at the end of the day I'll pay a minor charge for the cash, but it likely won't be more than ~$15 or so, and I have the convenience of using ATMs wherever.


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## pedro47 (Aug 18, 2012)

I was going to purchase between 1000 & 500 dollars in euros now after reading these post. I am looking at purchasing only 100 dollars in euros.  Examples of euros purchases vino & cab fare in Rome and buying some small gifts in Turkey.


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## Carolinian (Aug 19, 2012)

pedro47 said:


> I was going to purchase between 1000 & 500 dollars in euros now after reading these post. I am looking at purchasing only 100 dollars in euros.  Examples of euros purchases vino & cab fare in Rome and buying some small gifts in Turkey.



In Turkey, you will use the Turkish lira, not the euro.  It has been rather stable lately since the introduction of the new lire knocking off several zeros on the end, but on my first trip there, a trip to McDonalds involved a million plus lire transaction.

Other European countries not using the euro are:
UK (pound)
Swizerland (franc)
Norway (kronor)
Sweden (kronor)
Denmark (kronor)
Poland (zloty)
Croatia (kuna)
Bulgaria (lev)
Romania (lei)
Hungary (forint)
Czech Republic (crown)
Lithuania (litu)
Latvia 
Moldova (lei)
Liechtenstein (franc)
Guernsey (pound)
Jersey (pound)
Albania (lek)
Bosnia (mark)


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## Carolinian (Aug 19, 2012)

As to which way the euro is likely to head from here, you might want to consider the position of the head of one of Europe's most famous banking families, and not just an opinion made in a comment to the media but one where he puts his money where his mouth is:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/...thschild-takes-130m-bet-against-the-euro.html


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## Talent312 (Aug 19, 2012)

Which ATM you use can make a significant difference in the amount of fees.

I stopped at a service plaza on a British motorway and was about to use an ATM near the entrance when a fellow said, "Hey bloke (or something), there's a no-fee ATM back by the restrooms." -- _The no-fee ATM was from a major bank._

But I prefer to carry some foreign currency with me, at least enuff to get us to our hotel and lunch on day-one. My attitude is, the fewer things I need to deal with on arrival, the better.  Of the various online servicess, Wells Fargo seems to have the best rates.


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## Carolinian (Aug 19, 2012)

Talent312 said:


> Which ATM you use can make a significant difference in the amount of fees.
> 
> I stopped at a service plaza on a British motorway and was about to use an ATM near the entrance when a fellow said, "Hey bloke (or something), there's a no-fee ATM back by the restrooms." -- _The no-fee ATM was from a major bank ATM._
> 
> But I prefer to carry some foreign currency with me, at least enuff to get us to our hotel and lunch on day-one. My attitude is, the fewer things I need to deal with on arrival, the better.  Of the various online servicess, Wells Fargo seems to have the best rates.



Highway rest stops, airports, and train and bus stations are some of the places to be careful of ATM's as the liklhood of an extra fee from the ATM owner is higher, particularly those from private operators.  If the machine in those locations is from a major bank, the odds of such a fee are less, but it can still happen with them, too.

Also, it varies by country.  In one of the Baltic countries, even ATM's attached to banks often belonged to private operators and had extra charges. You had to look at the ATM to see who owned it.  In Greece, all of the major banks impose extra charges.  In the UK, on the other hand, virtually all bank owned ATM's are without extra fees.  Many banks in Moldova have recently started imposed a $2 fee on withdrawals on US cards, which they had previously not charged and roughly similar fees on other foreign cards, but for locals with cards on local banks it is free,  Many banks in Italy have a limit on how much US citizens (and I think other foreigners) can withdraw but that does not apply to Italians.

There is also something else to watch out for that I first noticed in Poland but have since seen elsewhere as well, and that is during the tranaction to offer to send the charge to your bank in your own currency.  This is known as dynamic currency conversion (DCC) and is a BAD deal as they make that conversion at an awful rate.  Always decline that.  To get the good mid-market interbank rate, you have to have the charge submitted to Plus or Cirrus in foreign currency, so NEVER have the local ATM do the conversion for you.

As to DCC, you should watch out for that on all credit card transactions as well, including hotels, rental cars, and restaurants.  NEVER let any merchant send the charge back to your bank in dollars.  ALWAYS have them do it in local currency so that PLUS / CIRRUS does the conversion at the good rate.  DCC conversion rates are AWFUL.  Very often, they don't ask you, just hand you a slip with the amount in dollars, but with a statement claiming they offered you a choice and that is what you selected.  Stand your ground, and do not let them do this to you.  They cannot force you.  Tell them you will file a complaint with Visa / Mastercard if they balk.

I, too, like having a little cash when I arrive, and keep leftovers for that purpose.  I have an old wallet where I keep such leftovers for the next trip, which is currently about an inch thick with a few euros, pounds, Polish zloty, Lithunanian Lita, Bulgarian leva, Turkish lira, Romanian lei, Moldovan lei, Bosnian marks, Swiss francs, Ukrainian hrvna, Hungarian forints, Czech crowns, etc.  When I lived in the US, I balked at the bad rates for bank exchanges before the trip.  I found I could get from the airport into town easily enough with plastic eveywhere I have been, and for airport purchases, virtually all airport shops take all major currencies like dollars, pounds, euros, etc. and give change in local currency, at not the best rates but not so bad, and with no commission.  For a little spending money, I would rather buy a McDonalds coke or a morning newspaper at an airport shop and get change for a 20 or a 50 than I would deal with the bad rates of US banks.  Where I work, I can often get good exchange rates from the local exchange houses.  In eastern Europe, unlike the eurozone, exchange houses offer good value.  Commissions are almost unknown, and the spread between buying and selling rates on currencies where they have a lot of volume such as dollars, euros, and immediately adjacent countries are very narrow, often less than one half of one percent.  I have seen spreads in the eurozone over eleven percent at exchange houses in comparision.

It sometimes helps to know the exchange situation in particular countries.  If I am in Sofia, Bulgaria, I always get currencies for upcoming trips, as the rates are often very good, and some of the exchange houses seem to have about any currency you can think of.  One time I had a trip coming up to Cyprus and would need some Cyprus pounds.  When I checked xe.com for up to the minute mid-market interbank rates and compared a local exchange house, I found I could do a three currency transaction - dollars to lev to Cyprus pounds - for less than two tenths of one percent exchange loss.  The best rates I saw in Cyprus itself were about a three percent exchange loss.


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## Margariet (Aug 19, 2012)

Talent312 said:


> ... a fellow said, "Hey bloke (or something) ...  " ...


   I love this one. That's the fun of traveling, isn't it?!


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## Carolinian (Aug 20, 2012)

Another good article on what is happening with the euro:

http://www.realclearmarkets.com/art...ward_economic_and_political_spiral_99829.html


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