# HGVC - Does Home Resort Matter, or is it all Points?



## Aptman (Nov 6, 2007)

Hello
I'm about to buy an HGVC timeshare, and since I live in Southern Cal, had figured I'd buy one in Vegas, as it's close, the family likes going there, and we can easily use it in a pinch.  However, I noticed that you can get the same number of points at resorts in Florida for a lot less money - more than $1k less (which would be several years of the nominal maintenance fee differences).

From lurking around TUG for the last year or two, I have learned that you should choose a home resort that you would actually like to use on a regular basis - something that cannot be said for me here in Los Angeles about a Florida timeshare.  Is that really the case with HGVC points?  I have been told that less than 5% of HGVC members actually make reservations during their season at their resort, and that most people use the points as fungible points, not specific to a resort.

Is this true?  Does it matter where I get it?  Should I just get the most points for the cheapest price with the lowest MFs, regardless of location?  Or, is there some reason to pay attention to where my points are based.  I'm curious what any TUGers who have HGVC have found.


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## Pronkster (Nov 6, 2007)

Hi Aptman...As an owner of several HGVC weeks for the past few years I will try to answer your questions.  Yes, points are point in the HGVC system and the only reason to be concerned about the location of your home resort, is if you plan to make your reservations during the 3 months between 12 months and nine months out in the exact unit you own.  That being said the beauty of the system is being able to stay in different size units in different locations throughout the year. 
 I just sold my week that I owned at the Seaworld location, because I found the maintenance fees really increased last year due to insurance costs in Florida.  Now all 6 weeks I own are in Las Vegas.  Most people recommend buying platinum units to get the most bang for your maintenance fees.  They are based on the size of the unit, not the number of points you own.  Therefore a 3500, 5000 or 7000 2 bedroom unit will all pay the same annual fees.  You will find that it is cheaper per point to get into the system the fewer points you purchase (3500), but this because it will cost you the same 7 or 8 hundred dollars a year for half the points that a 7000 point unit will get you.  Since the units are deeded and the value seems to be protected by Hilton's ROFR, I didn't mind investing the dollars up front in order to get the maximum value for my annual m/f's. 
The system is very flexible and you can stretch your points to be able to stay many nights if you book during the lower point seasons.  I hope this helps answer some of your questions...feel free to email me if you have any further questions.


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## chesterbhoy (Nov 6, 2007)

We have a 2BR unit in Orlando, which give us 7000pts. Although we have revisited Orlando, we have never booked our home unit during platinum season - we use our 7000 pts for only 1 week in a 2BR, when we can use 6800 for 2wks in a 1bedroom.........

As we live in the UK no HGVC is close, but due to points flexibility we have stayed in 1BR, 2BR and 3BR units in Orlando, Las Vegas and Hawaii.

Buy a unit with lowest $ per pts and lowest MFs.....probably Las Vegas!


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## dougp26364 (Nov 6, 2007)

For the most part *at this time* points are points. I would buy where the MF's are cheapest. But, keep in mind that, like the wind, things can always change. At one time it seems I remember people suggesting people buy in FL because the MF's were cheaper there. That's not the case anymore. 

In the hotel base timeshare forum there is a thread about MF's and it lists various MF's for the different HGVC resorts. It might be worth a read. 

Home resort advantage only matter is you plan on using your entire unit and you absolutely MUST have that resort and that week on a regular basis. During the home resort advantage period (first three months) you can not split you points up or your unit. If it's a 2 bedroom unit you own then you must reserve a two bedroom unit and reserve it for the full week or wait until the home resort period has expired. At 9 months you can book any size unit your points will allow for, book any season and book for a partial week ( I believe the minium is 3 nights).

HGVC use to be one of the most flexible points based reservation systems out there but now I feel that it is somewhat confining.


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## Cathyb (Nov 6, 2007)

Pronkster: 
1. Do you feel buying resale has any negatives?
2. Would one Las Vegas location have an edge over another if you need to sell later?
3. Is getting into Hawaii difficult in the July timeframe if you don't own there?


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## dougp26364 (Nov 6, 2007)

Cathyb said:


> Pronkster:
> 1. Do you feel buying resale has any negatives?
> 2. Would one Las Vegas location have an edge over another if you need to sell later?
> 3. Is getting into Hawaii difficult in the July timeframe if you don't own there?




I might be able to answer some of your questions. 

1. The only negative I see to buying resale would be exclusion from HGVC Elite membership. IMO, that's not a negative as their Elite program really doesn't offer enough to induce me to buy at least 14,000 points at developer pricing.

2. I would like to think the Flamingo location would be the most popular. I'm not convinced it would necessarily outsell any other Las Vegas HGVC resort since points are essentially points. However, it has the best location of the three. Even if they develope the north end as seems to be the plan the LV Strip loction still won't be in the middle of the action. It will be on the north edge of the action. The Flamingo location right smack dab in the middle of everything. 

The LV Stips biggest advantage is the penthouse deluxe units they have. Now those are VERY nice and offer some really great views down the strip. I'm not certain how that view will be affected once the 50 some-odd story Fountainbleau is completed.

3. One of the biggest advantages of HGVC is getting into Hawaii relatively easily. So long as you're looking 9 months out there's almost always good availablity in Hawaii with HGVC. When we did our last tour the salesman made the point that Hawaii with HGVC wasn't tough at all. We were there in October and he showed us availability at 3 months and then again for the summer of '08.


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## mommylo (Nov 6, 2007)

I just closed my resale at HGVC Vegas Hilton.  The low MF was definitely my consideration for the location. My resale was for an EOY odd year usage.  So I can go DVC one year and HGVC another year.:whoopie:


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## Pronkster (Nov 7, 2007)

Cathyb, Doug did a great job of answering your questions.
1) I bought all my units resale and as Doug stated, elite status is the only benefit you would receive buying from the developer.  This will cost you thousand and thousands of extra dollars.  It is the census of opinion on these boards that resale is the only way to go.

2) I personally own 2LV Hilton 2bd. plat. m/f $668, 3Flamingo 2bd. plat. m/f $809, and 1 Flamingo 1bd. plat. m/f $741. The last unit is currently on the market as I recently purchased a house in Vegas and don't need so many points anymore. The maintenance fees at the Flamingo include a special assessment of $112 on the 2 bdr and $96 on the 1 bdr.  I believe this assessment will be charged in 2008 and 2009, but I am not positive about that.  I would recommend buying at the Flamingo location as it is by far the most popular,  therefore I would think that selling it down the road would make it that much easier. The resale prices there seem to be a little higher because of the location, but if you shop around I'm sure you can find a good deal.  Remember this location does not have ROFR.

3)As far as Hawaii goes I have never had a problem booking anything I want nine months out.  There aren't many penthouse units at HHV, as it is only the top floor, but these also always seem to be available at 9 months.  I booked one last year, but was not able to go at the last minute, but my family all had a great time.  This year I booked a 2 bdr. ocean view for May, it is the gold season and you get the most bang for your points.

Let me know if you have any other questions.


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## UWSurfer (Nov 7, 2007)

So in summary, the only real advantage to owning at your home resort is booking your EXACT SIZE UNIT in the TIME (platnum, gold, silver week) you own, lets you do so for up to 12 months out with no booking fee.

If you want to book a different category week, different size unit or a stay less than a week you'll need to use points and there is a booking fee to do so.  

The flexibility to use your HGVC points is pretty amazing.  You get to book partial stays (3 or more days at a time), you can borrow from a future years points if you are short or bank/rescue your unused points into next year, you can deposit them with RCI, use them to book other resorts in the HGVC system or select RCI affiliated properties through HGVC using RCI, you can rent an RV with them, rent a motorcycle vacation/trip with them, rent an adventure trip with them, convert them to HHonors points which lets you use the HHonors system for Hilton Family hotel stays, car rentals....  They also offer a last call reservation for units availalbe 30 days out or less at a highly discounted rate.  If you do this, the $ you spend renting & any meals you charge to the room are generally elible to earn HHonors points.  For example if you stay at the HGVC Las Vegas Hilton properity, you can charge what you eat at the Hilton Hotel rest's or buffet to your room and earn HHonors points 1:1.  Also your HGVC card serves as a VIP pass for the buffet line (no waiting!!!)

And the HGVC properties tend to be maintained at the higher end of the spectrum for time share properties.    It's a very useable system made much more affordable via the resale market.


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## ricoba (Nov 7, 2007)

Just a quick note about Hawaii availability.

We have been a couple of times and had no problem booking nine months out for low/non peak season.

But for our upcoming Spring Break 08 trip we had a little bit more of a challenge.  We are going to Kona and will be staying at both the Kohala Suites and the Bay Club, since we couldn't get our whole time frame at Waikoloa.  So we will have to move mid-week from one club to the other.

July will be peak season, so you may or may not experience this.


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## Aptman (Nov 9, 2007)

*Great Responses*

Thank you all so much for your great responses.  I have finalized an offer for an HGVC package, and hope to go into escrow on it in the next few days.  After it closes and all is official, I'll post the deal I got, and everyone can let me know if I got a good deal or not.

Your information here really sealed the deal, though.


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## Cathyb (Nov 9, 2007)

Pronkster: ROFR not in Las Vegas locations or just Flamingo?  Why is it in one and not others?  Also we were shown a separate RCI directory exclusively for Hilton with only about 600 top rated resorts in it. Is this what you use when you want non-Hilton locations?

Who do you all use when you buy resale?  Sorry for all my questions, but I am serious about getting into Hilton after I sell two of my older resorts.  Our maint fees are over $4000/yr now


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## UWSurfer (Nov 9, 2007)

Yes...the RCI book is the resource for booking outside of HGVC using HGVC points.   They send you the full RCI book in addition to the smaller one you saw.   The thing to note is you do the RCI bookings using the same HGVC call center and staff.  They have a few people who are trained to book RCI so you may get kicked around a bit...but they work the two computer systems to work within HGVC rules.

There are consistently a few recommended HGVC brokers mentioned on TUG...I purchased my weeks through Seth Nock and was very pleased.


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## benjaminb13 (Nov 9, 2007)

ricoba said:


> Just a quick note about Hawaii availability.
> 
> We have been a couple of times and had no problem booking nine months out for low/non peak season.
> 
> ...



I currently own at the new HGVC waik- Ive also stayed at Bay Club- Bay club iquality is fair-units are large though--- HGVC waikoloa resort, on the other hand,  is beautiful and quality---- it also grants free access to HILTON Waik Village- 

okay-Just checked for June/ july Hgvc Waikoloa Resort is all booked- The neighbor affiliate- bay Club has tons of availability- What happens is many owners from Bay Club always attempt to book at Hgvc first b4 settling for the bay club-


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## Pronkster (Nov 10, 2007)

Cathy, no ROFR is only at the Flamingo.  I don't know exactly why, it was the first Hilton timeshare and I think it just wasn't part of the deal then.  Maybe someone else can explain further, but it is common knowledge here that this is the case.  I have had deals at both LV Hilton and Orlando Seaworld taken by Hilton under ROFR, just when you think you find a killer deal, they take it.  But I look at it as protection of your investment as they are protecting the value by not letting people sell them too cheaply.

I purchased my first two of my units from Seth and then I started looking at different resale sites for my own deals.  Once I understood the way it was all handled I was comfortable dealing with the seller directly.  I recently sold one of my weeks myself, and it closed last month.  Hope this helps.


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## GeorgeJ. (Nov 10, 2007)

Cathyb said:


> Pronkster:
> 1. Do you feel buying resale has any negatives?
> 2. Would one Las Vegas location have an edge over another if you need to sell later?
> 3. Is getting into Hawaii difficult in the July timeframe if you don't own there?



As far as #2 goes, Flamingo gets the edge for reselling because there was no ROFR (Right Of First Refusal) in the contracts; so Hilton has no say in how much you sell for...(or if you're buying resale now, you'll get the best price at Flamingo because Hilton can't say the buyer is selling to you too low)


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## UWSurfer (Nov 13, 2007)

GeorgeJ. said:


> As far as #2 goes, Flamingo gets the edge for reselling because there was no ROFR (Right Of First Refusal) in the contracts; so Hilton has no say in how much you sell for...(or if you're buying resale now, you'll get the best price at Flamingo because Hilton can't say the buyer is selling to you too low)



Yes and no George.   While you are correct concerning ROFR, the real edge Flamingo has is it's prime strip location & it's access to the Flamingo Hotel pool complex. It's the most popular HGVC of three and always books up before the others in Vegas.  As such it tends to fetch at least compriable pricing if not a slight premium.


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## Bill4728 (Nov 13, 2007)

FYI : Platinum vs Gold 

Platinum units will have a higher buy-in cost but lower Mfs/point. So it seems like a no brainer to buy platinum. BUT it may not be.

 The higher purchase cost may take a significant time to make up with the lower MFs. So you must carefully look at both the purchase price and the MFs before deciding which season makes the most sense for you.


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## bradykp (Nov 14, 2007)

Bill4728 said:


> FYI : Platinum vs Gold
> 
> Platinum units will have a higher buy-in cost but lower Mfs/point. So it seems like a no brainer to buy platinum. BUT it may not be.
> 
> The higher purchase cost may take a significant time to make up with the lower MFs. So you must carefully look at both the purchase price and the MFs before deciding which season makes the most sense for you.



why do platinum units have lower MFs? i don't understand the logic?


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## jlwquilter (Nov 14, 2007)

bradykp said:


> why do platinum units have lower MFs? i don't understand the logic?



Platimum has a higher total MF but you get more points...so when you calculate MFs PER POINT, the cost per point comes out less than the Gold PER POINT cost.


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## bradykp (Nov 14, 2007)

jlwquilter said:


> Platimum has a higher total MF but you get more points...so when you calculate MFs PER POINT, the cost per point comes out less than the Gold PER POINT cost.



ahhhh. per point. i see......

i personally think i'm just going to find a point total that i am comfortable with at this stage of my life. i'm young. really platinum points vs gold points don't really matter. 5000 points gets you the same no matter they are gold or platinum correct? i would think, all things being equal with the room (1 bedroom), then if it's platinum season points or gold season points doesn't really matter UNLESS you visit your home resort frequently. correct?


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## Bill4728 (Nov 14, 2007)

A 1 bedroom platinum unit (which generally cost about $2/pt or $10,000) and a 2 bedroom gold unit (which generally cost about $1.50/pt or $7,500) will both generate about 5000 HGVC points. But, since the MFs are based on unit size not points, the person owning the 2 bedroom unit will pay higher MFs. 

At some resorts, the difference in MFs between a 1 & 2 bedroom is a significant amount and at other resorts it isn't very much. So it is very important to account for that difference before spending significantly more for platinum season units.


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## UWSurfer (Nov 14, 2007)

Hopefully I'm not muddying the waters here, but I'm not certain the maintence fee's of platinum vs gold vs silver vs bronze weeks is clear.

With the two HGVC weeks I have (LV Hilton & Flamingo), the maintenance fee's are based on the unit size (studio, 1 Bdrm, 2 Bdrm).    The maintenance fee is the SAME regardless which color week you own.   Difference is how they value your particular week in points.  

For example, my 1 Bdrm Gold week at LV Hilton is valued at 3400 points.  If I owned the same unit in a platinum week it would be valued at 4800 points.    A silver week is valued at 2400 points and a bronze is 1700.  (Note: there aren't many silver and bronze weeks in the HGVC system).

The 2008 maintence fee for a 1 Bdrm unit is $443.46 regardless of which color week you own.  So the point value for this unit ranges from 1700 - 4800 points, but the mf will be 443.46.   Since the MF is the same, it's beneficial to get more points for your fee, and hence platinum weeks are more desirable.   They are generally also more expense than the other weeks to purchase so you have to evaluate whether it's worth the additional purchase cost up front to get more points.   In my case I figured the cross over point is about 8 years out to where the cost per point is more for my gold week than if I coughed up more $ up front for platinum.

I hope that helps.


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## bradykp (Nov 15, 2007)

UWSurfer said:


> Hopefully I'm not muddying the waters here, but I'm not certain the maintence fee's of platinum vs gold vs silver vs bronze weeks is clear.
> 
> With the two HGVC weeks I have (LV Hilton & Flamingo), the maintenance fee's are based on the unit size (studio, 1 Bdrm, 2 Bdrm).    The maintenance fee is the SAME regardless which color week you own.   Difference is how they value your particular week in points.
> 
> ...



i think i get it now with yours and bill's descriptions.

basically, bill is saying, if you want 4800 points and get a platinum 1 bedroom, your MF per point will be less than buying a gold 2 bedroom - assuming that these are the two comparable points units to get 4800 points. 

this is helpful to know.

thanks all


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