# HGVC vs the Hilton Club vs The Hilton Club...and HGVC FAQ?



## ljmiii (Apr 21, 2018)

I've been trying to make sense of HGVC and what has gone on recently and there seems to be no one place I can find all the information I need. Alongside HGVC and it's longtime affiliates they have created the Hilton Club which doesn't actually include The Hilton Club but rather two other clubs in NYC - W57th and The Residences - along with The District in Washington DC and two not yet opened clubs - The Bay Forest Odawara in Japan and Liberty Place in Charleston, SC.

The HGVC Club reference has some of the new information, the HGVC availability tool gives me other information, and TUG's forums the rest. Is there any one reference folk know of? (The HGVC FAQ was last updated either 3/2014 or in 2015).


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## alwysonvac (Apr 21, 2018)

What information do you need?

I believe each club has their club member guides.

(1) 2018 Hilton Grand Vacations Club Member Guide (see link) can be found under the club.hiltongrandvacations.com website

(2) Supplemental guide for by Hilton Club Owners (see link) can be found under the club.hiltongrandvacations.com website

(3) Hilton Club New York - _an owner with access will have to share their latest guide. 
I’m assuming they have a separate owner website _


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## ljmiii (Apr 21, 2018)

alwysonvac said:


> What information do you need?


First, thank you very much for the links. Though now I'm left wondering why the 2018 Club Reference pulled one of the most useful things from the 2017 reference - the chart on pg 3 that shows when/how the different windows work at each resort. Are they planning on pulling the 'By Hilton Club' priority window from the new Japan and Charleston 'By Hilton Club resorts? Or not allow the new resorts access to the existing Residence and District resorts? Or both...or neither?

Which is kind of a segue into your question - what I need is information to help me decide what to do with my HGVC membership going forward. I have two weeks at HHV and for the first time used one of the weeks for 'something else' this year - a week in South Beach and four days in Waikoloa. And as I look at my usage going forward I don't think I'll need two weeks at HHV.  So do I sell one of those high maintenance fee weeks? Buy a cheap(er) HGVC points generator somewhere else? Buy a new 'Hilton Club' week somewhere? Sell both weeks and drop out of HGVC entirely?

That HGVC seems to be building a 'club within a club' of new properties isn't giving me warm fuzzies. And I've been seeing threads about people having difficulty with HGVC incorrectly allocating HGVC vs Hilton Club points. That it's been a process instead of a FAQ or PDF to figure out the current state of play has just been a bit of salt in the wound.


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## JohnPaul (Apr 21, 2018)

I think the difficulty of allocating points between "Club" and "By Hilton" is a temporary blip caused by the initial conversion.  They had to guesstimate balances for people with both kinds of points for the split.  Activity initiated after the split which were started with defined points should be fine.  But initial splits and cancellation of reservations made before the split are clearly causing problems for some people.


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## brp (Apr 21, 2018)

JohnPaul said:


> I think the difficulty of allocating points between "Club" and "By Hilton" is a temporary blip caused by the initial conversion.  They had to guesstimate balances for people with both kinds of points for the split.  Activity initiated after the split which were started with defined points should be fine.  But initial splits and cancellation of reservations made before the split are clearly causing problems for some people.



This. When they did the split, they "charged" a W. 57th reservation that we already had to "regular" points instead of the By Hilton Club points, so error in our favor. After that, it has worked.

The only current glitch is that a non-premium reservation made this year that required more "regular" points than we had for this year dug into this year's By Hilton Club points instead of borrowing "regular" points from next year. One call and it was fixed within a day.

After that, of course, I realized that I should have let them use the "special" points as we have 330 left and it's not worth the cost to Save to next year based on value and we likely won't use them this year.

Cheers.


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## CalGalTraveler (Apr 21, 2018)

If you have AI reservations then you can simply call it in during a slow time and cancel and rebook the reservation to adjust the points to this year. Or if there is availability, change the reservation to walk out the points and then cancel days back to adjust


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## Sapper (Apr 21, 2018)

OK, just when I think I am starting to figure out Hilton... I thought there was only one "kind" of points, and the Hilton Club properties in NY just had reduced reservation windows for regular HGVC members.  Am I mistaken in this understanding, and there are two different types of points which are not equal?


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## brp (Apr 21, 2018)

CalGalTraveler said:


> If you have AI reservations then you can simply call it in during a slow time and cancel and rebook the reservation to adjust the points to this year. Or if there is availability, change the reservation to walk out the points and then cancel days back to adjust



Yeah, I probably will do that. I'll try calling first and see if they'll just change it.

Cheers.


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## brp (Apr 21, 2018)

Sapper said:


> OK, just when I think I am starting to figure out Hilton... I thought there was only one "kind" of points, and the Hilton Club properties in NY just had reduced reservation windows for regular HGVC members.  Am I mistaken in this understanding, and there are two different types of points which are not equal?



Yes there are two types...as of this year. Previously they were lumped, but no longer. Owners of the By Hilton Club properties get expanded booking windows, but only with that pool of points. All points are the same for the other properties.

Cheers.


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## Sapper (Apr 21, 2018)

brp said:


> Yes there are two types...as of this year. Previously they were lumped, but no longer. Owners of the By Hilton Club properties get expanded booking windows, but only with that pool of points. All points are the same for the other properties.
> 
> Cheers.




OK, thank you for the clarification.


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## alwysonvac (Apr 22, 2018)

ljmiii said:


> Which is kind of a segue into your question - what I need is information to help me decide what to do with my HGVC membership going forward. I have two weeks at HHV and for the first time used one of the weeks for 'something else' this year - a week in South Beach and four days in Waikoloa. *And as I look at my usage going forward I don't think I'll need two weeks at HHV. * So do I sell one of those high maintenance fee weeks? Buy a cheap(er) HGVC points generator somewhere else? Buy a new 'Hilton Club' week somewhere? Sell both weeks and drop out of HGVC entirely?



Yeah, I guess it depends.
Similar to you, we’ve used our HGVC Points primarily at HHV for 10+ years.

Here are some of the things we’ve considered.

Future stays at HHV? 
If you’re still planning to stay at HHV in the future, renting might make sense. This way you don’t lose your home week booking advantage. You can rent out your HHV weeks when you don’t need them and use the cash towards a non-HGVC vacation.

Any HGVC locations you want to visit on a regular basis?
For us, Oahu is the only HGVC location we want access to on a regular basis. The other HGVC locations are just a bonus. We simply loved HHV’s combination of central location and mega beachfront destination resort. Too bad Hilton has decided to cram the space with more structures and crowds. So once we lose our desire to stay at HHV, we‘ll look to sell. However before we sell, we might visit some of the other HGVC locations that we haven’t been to yet.

How many more years with HGVC? 
Depending on the number of years you still want to remain with HGVC, it may not make sense to sell and buy due to the overall cost.


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## JohnPaul (Apr 22, 2018)

The rules were always that you needed to use points from W 57th St or The District (and now The Residences) to book there more than 45 days out.  Unfortunately the only check they had was that you actually owned there.  So if you owned W 57th St and Las Vegas you could get away with using all your points (including Vegas) at W 57th St.  Since it is so much cheaper to buy in Las Vegas (for example) this was rather unfair to those following the rules and only using expensive points.

This year they split the points in their system so that this is no longer possible and not just against the rules.


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## brp (Apr 22, 2018)

JohnPaul said:


> This year they split the points in their system so that this is no longer possible and not just against the rules.



Exactly this. What was possible, and in contravention of the rules is now no longer possible.

Although, was it actually explicitly stated that only W. 57th points, for example, could be used outside of the 45-day limit? I know that it was the rule, but was it actually documented as such?

Cheers.


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## ljmiii (Apr 22, 2018)

From the 2017 Club Reference -

3. By Hilton Club Priority exchange is a reciprocal 15-day priority exchange window where owners at either The Residences by Hilton Club or The District by Hilton Club may exchange into either property fifty-nine (59) days prior to check-out through forty-five (45) days prior to the check-out date. By Hilton Club Priority exchange reservations may only be made using ClubPoints.

So the rule WAS that you just had to be an owner at a 'By Hilton Club'...it didn't matter where the points came from. Which I'm sure is part of the reason for the creation of a new class of 'By Hilton' Club points. The $64,000 question is how many of the new clubs will be BHCs and how many HGVCs (With the bonus question of how many new HGVC clubs will - like Grand Islander and Hokulani Waikiki - have different booking rules).


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## Cyberc (Apr 23, 2018)

I think their originally idea was to give priority to "by hilton club" and use that as an incentive for potential buyers to be lured in. Problem with that approach is that while it may work for the first property or two it eventually wont work as "by hilton club" contracts will be available resale and resale buyers will have the same benefits as direct buyers.

So eventually HGVC will have the same "problem" with resales of "by hilton club" contracts as they do with regular HGVC resale contracts.

IMHO what they should have done instead was to give direct buyers of the "by hilton club" contracts the additional booking window. On top down the road HGVC should have added a "buyin" option for resale buyers so they could obtain the same booking window if they wanted for an extra price.  That way the value of the direct buyers contracts wouldn't tank just after signature. If thats to messy to deal with HGVC should have stuck to the direct buyers only.


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## Talent312 (Apr 23, 2018)

Cyberc said:


> ... IMHO what they should have done instead... HGVC should have added... HGVC should have stuck...



Let's not be giving HGVC too much advice on how to stick it to resale buyers, please.
.


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## Cyberc (Apr 23, 2018)

Talent312 said:


> Let's not be giving HGVC too much advice on how to stick it to resale buyers, please.
> .


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## CalGalTraveler (Apr 23, 2018)

I believe that this plan would have a seriously negative effect on resale prices as it would make them worthless.  What you are describing sounds like what Wastegate does with resale owners. It has been a catastrophe for its owners who cannot get out of their timeshare.


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## PigsDad (Apr 23, 2018)

Cyberc said:


> IMHO what they should have done instead was to give direct buyers of the "by hilton club" contracts the additional booking window. On top down the road HGVC should have added a "buyin" option for resale buyers so they could obtain the same booking window if they wanted for an extra price.  *That way the value of the direct buyers contracts wouldn't tank just after signature*. If thats to messy to deal with HGVC should have stuck to the direct buyers only.


Just the opposite -- taking away benefits for resale buyers will cause the contracts to be worthless.  We have seen this in many other systems.

Kurt


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## bogey21 (Apr 23, 2018)

Never owned HGVC but thought about it often as I liked their Las Vegas and NYC properties and the relative simplicity of their program.  Although I am no longer in the market there is no way I would consider buying HGVC now as it looks like it is getting too complicated for my taste.

George


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## brp (Apr 23, 2018)

PigsDad said:


> Just the opposite -- taking away benefits for resale buyers will cause the contracts to be worthless.  We have seen this in many other systems.
> 
> Kurt



Doesn't seem to be the case for DVC. They had two waves of benefit reductions, and prices on resales are higher now than they've ever been, even though these are limited0lifetime contracts. We bought resale about 9 years ago (so 9 years less on our contracts) and I could make ~50-55% on each if I sold now.

Cheers.


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## PigsDad (Apr 23, 2018)

brp said:


> Doesn't seem to be the case for DVC. They had two waves of benefit reductions, and prices on resales are higher now than they've ever been, even though these are limited0lifetime contracts. We bought resale about 9 years ago (so 9 years less on our contracts) and I could make ~50-55% on each if I sold now.


I think we can all agree that Disney is an anomaly.  They have a unique product and it is tied with the Disney theme parks which continue to be in high demand.

When benefits are pulled from resale buyers, there have been many examples of how that drives the resale price to practically nothing.  Westgate, Sheraton's (I forget their new name) non-mandatory resorts, Club Intrawest (also, forget their new name), the "Grand" resorts in Breckenridge (to an extent, since they still have higher value due to being at a ski location) -- these are just a few off the top of my head where some / many owner benefits to do not transfer or are limited.  The resale prices of these places are quite low (if not non-existent).

Kurt


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## JohnPaul (Apr 23, 2018)

ljmiii said:


> From the 2017 Club Reference -
> 
> 3. By Hilton Club Priority exchange is a reciprocal 15-day priority exchange window where owners at either The Residences by Hilton Club or The District by Hilton Club may exchange into either property fifty-nine (59) days prior to check-out through forty-five (45) days prior to the check-out date. By Hilton Club Priority exchange reservations may only be made using ClubPoints.
> 
> So the rule WAS that you just had to be an owner at a 'By Hilton Club'...it didn't matter where the points came from. Which I'm sure is part of the reason for the creation of a new class of 'By Hilton' Club points. The $64,000 question is how many of the new clubs will be BHCs and how many HGVCs (With the bonus question of how many new HGVC clubs will - like Grand Islander and Hokulani Waikiki - have different booking rules).




*By Hilton Club Priority* is a completely different thing.  If you own one of the "By Hilton Club" properties with By Hilton Club Priority (currently only The Residences and The District) you get a 15 day head start on everyone else to book at the other "By Hilton Club" property - you can book at 60 days rather than 45.

The issue initially being discussed was the use of *"Home Resort Priority"* booking which is booking at W 57th St, The Residences or The District more than 45 days out. (I think there is a Hawaii version too.) To do that you must own there and are supposed to use the points associated with that specific ownership.  They can now at least make sure you use "By Hilton Club" points and not Vegas or Orlando, etc.

Although a salesman recently told me you could not use W 57th St Points at The Residences and vice versa (which I think is technically true) it's clear they don't have the ability to track at that level even now.


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## brp (Apr 23, 2018)

JohnPaul said:


> The issue initially being discussed was the use of *"Home Resort Priority"* booking which is booking at W 57th St, The Residences or The District more than 45 days out. (I think there is a Hawaii version too.) To do that you must own there and are supposed to use the points associated with that specific ownership.



I was just wondering in my prior post if the "supposed to" was actually formally documented.



JohnPaul said:


> Although a salesman recently told me you could not use W 57th St Points at The Residences and vice versa (which I think is technically true) it's clear they don't have the ability to track at that level even now.



What's interesting is that they *can* track this fir HCNY (where, even though I have By Hilton Club points at W.57th, it still says "ownership required), but The Residences shows me a booking availability window, as you said.

Cheers.


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