# Maybe Renting is the new exchange company



## timeos2 (Dec 17, 2007)

With all the various threads we see here regarding lack of exchange opportunities, the inability to specify units or resorts or exact dates and more and the general trend toward mini-systems that control inventory the idea that renting rather than any type of third party exchange service is the ultimate way to handle timeshare exchange may have merit.  

Renting offers more control and a true market driven pricing structure that no amount of trade power or colors or assigned points values ever could.  You own a week or a RTU for a resort or group of resorts, you offer it to others and you come to an agreement on the value to exchange (money - rent). If you own a dog week on the coast in January you'll soon find out that there isn't much value to that when real dollars have to be forked over.  If you own in a less seasonal area but one that has many resorts (sometimes called overbuilt) you may find you'll get far more than that January coastal week brings in rent, but not as much as a smaller, less opulent unit on the South West Coast of Florida would bring as those are also in demand but have a smaller supply.  It is the ultimate reality check for ownership value. 

By renting directly you can get things a trade can't offer such as a specific unit, view, exact dates - anything the owner of that time gets you get. And forget any extra fees or charges-as it was supposed to be with RCI/II but has been changed over the years when you rent you ARE the owner with all the rights and privileges they have - no bogus fees tacked on.  And of course no exchange fees or membership fees. 

This also helps increase the value to the owner as they now have a stake in making sure the resort stays up to date and competitive as they have to market it to potential renters. No more dropping it into the cesspool of exchanges where artificial values can prop up otherwise unacceptable resorts/use times.  

The only thing preventing this from working is if a group - RCI comes to mind here - bastardizes the rental system by taking in units under the guise of trading  - thus paying NOTHING for the time - and then turning around and offering it to the public at cut rate prices.  That undermines the market and helps only RCI or any other group that pulls that trick. If RCI wants to be a rental clearinghouse fine. Let them take a percentage but the majority of the rent should be going to the owner. The days of simply assigning use rights blindly to exchange companies to do as they please with has to end.  

So maybe we should all start withholding our deposits to the exchange companies that fail to deliver services expected in return. Start practicing self help by renting your time and then using that money to rent what you want thus bypassing the whole costly and inefficient third party exchange fiasco.  Renting could be the ultimate in exchange procedures if a good marketing process evolves which owners and the public come to trust and utilize.  Rentals aren't the enemy and in fact may be a great answer for exchange  but rentals basically stolen from deposits made for legitimate trades and sold under market value are.  Stop RCI/II and others from ruining the value of your ownership by stopping the flow of free inventory they rent at your expense.


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## AwayWeGo (Dec 17, 2007)

*Timeshare Exchange Guests & Renters Are 1st Class Citz. All The Way.*




timeos2 said:


> By renting directly you can get things a trade can't offer such as a specific unit, view, exact dates - anything the owner of that time gets you get. And forget any extra fees or charges-as it was supposed to be with RCI/II but has been changed over the years when you rent you ARE the owner with all the rights and privileges they have - no bogus fees tacked on.


Tacking on fees & extracting extra payments from exchange guests that owners using their own time don't pay is the most outrageous piece of bogusness perpetrated by RCI or I-I or resort management or whoever does it. 

Exchanging my time for somebody else's time & vice versa is an even-Stephen deal -- supposed to be, anyhow -- for both parties to the exchange.  That's what makes it an exchange -- whatever I have by virtue of paying for it I turn over to somebody else who gets everything that I was to get without exception.  And vice versa.  

That leads me to wonder whether people renting, say, Disney timeshares straight from the owners (the individual RTU-leaseholders, I mean, not Uncle Walt's heirs & assigns) get all the rights & privileges that the owners rented out -- or whether people going to Disney timeshares as renters also get socked with bogus fees & transportation charges, etc. 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


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## timeos2 (Dec 17, 2007)

*When you rent you get what you should with an exchange*



AwayWeGo said:


> That leads me to wonder whether people renting, say, Disney timeshares straight from the owners (the individual RTU-leaseholders, I mean, not Uncle Walt's heirs & assigns) get all the rights & privileges that the owners rented out -- or whether people going to Disney timeshares as renters also get socked with bogus fees & transportation charges, etc.
> 
> -- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​



If you rent from an owner at DVC or Manhattan Club or any of the other resorts that charge the bogus penalty fees for exchange guests (and that II and now RCI let them get away with) then you will not suffer that charge.  Another reason to avoid the groups that allow such unfair fees and deal directly with a fellow owner.


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## kkan (Dec 17, 2007)

Renting would work great if some type of stock exchange like entity could be created.  This business would maintain listings, show prices offered and bid for specific units.  Historic prices would be shown to guide future bids and offers.  This business should also guarantee the transaction and perform escrow services.  If the fee for these services could be between $50 and $100 (maybe higher), renting would take off.


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## Jya-Ning (Dec 17, 2007)

Since you will going to deal with IRS and local government for reporting renting income, exchange will have uphand.

Jya-Ning


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## Lawlar (Dec 17, 2007)

*Rent shows true value of a TS*

The rental value of a TS serves a useful purpose.  It shows what the market really thinks about the value of staying at a particular TS.  

     Recently, you could rent at Timber Lodge for $199 for seven days during gold season.  So why would anyone buy a TS at Timber Lodge if you can rent for less than the yearly maintenance fees? [And there are lots of other options in the area.]

     One reason we have a housing price crises is because people bid up the value of homes so that the prices no longer bore any reasonable relationship to the rental value of owning a home.  Home prices also greatly exceeded the community income level (affordability index) so that people were buying homes they couldn’t afford in hopes that the prices would increase further.

     So if you are thinking of buying a TS, start by checking out its rental value.  If the rental value exceeds the cost of buying and maintaining the TS, then why bother purchasing the TS?  Instead, give yourself maximum flexibility and stay at some nice hotels.  If the economy slows, I think you will see hotels slashing their prices next year.  TS rental rates will have to follow.


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## bnoble (Dec 17, 2007)

> Disney timeshares straight from the owners (the individual RTU-leaseholders, I mean, not Uncle Walt's heirs & assigns) get all the rights & privileges that the owners rented out -- or whether people going to Disney timeshares as renters also get socked with bogus fees & transportation charges, etc.


The only difference between a renter and an inbound exchanger is that the renter must have the owner call on their behalf to interact with Member Services (i.e. schedule the airport/resort trips).  The exchanger can do that themselves.  

It is not clear to me that that one phone call is worth $95. 

On the other hand, this fee could be viewed as a step in the direction that John is suggesting.  If people pay it willingly, then it measures in some way the extra value they place on a Disney exchange vs. one of the other top-shelf resorts in the area.  If people do not pay it willingly, then demand for it will suffer, negatively impacting its trade value.


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## littlestar (Dec 17, 2007)

bnoble said:


> The only difference between a renter and an inbound exchanger is that the renter must have the owner call on their behalf to interact with Member Services (i.e. schedule the airport/resort trips).  The exchanger can do that themselves.
> 
> It is not clear to me that that one phone call is worth $95.
> 
> On the other hand, this fee could be viewed as a step in the direction that John is suggesting.  If people pay it willingly, then it measures in some way the extra value they place on a Disney exchange vs. one of the other top-shelf resorts in the area.  If people do not pay it willingly, then demand for it will suffer, negatively impacting its trade value.



WDW DVC inventory definitely doesn't sit long on II, does it?


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## bnoble (Dec 17, 2007)

That's what I'm saying---one interpretation is that the marketplace has spoken, and they just don't care about the $95.

On the other hand, they aren't particularly hard exchanges---I saw two Easter week studios on Sunday that sat around for several hours, and a few months ago used an AC to book a 1BR for Memorial Day.  I'm using an off-brand trader that has good but not great trading power.  Presumably demand would be even higher without that fee, and DVC owners who wanted to exchange might have even better trading power, enabling them to spend fewer DVC points to get the exchanges that they want.

If I were an owner, it's not clear which I would prefer---and that's assuming the $95 defrays my annual fees.  I half suspect that the $95 is pure profit for the Mouse though, and in that case I know exactly which one I would prefer...


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## london (Dec 17, 2007)

*Values, Rents, Timeshares*

We own several timeshare weeks......all purchased resale.

The supply of rental timeshare weeks via owners directly, ie redweek and my resort network, and others, as well as extra vacation rentals by RCI and II.....have been created by the sale of thousands of timeshare weeks over the last 10 or more years.

The availability of weeks will continue to rise, as more resorts are built.

I recently rented a 2BR OF unit in Ormond Beach (Oceanside 99) starting Jan 12th for $550.00. My maintenance fee is $600.00.

Most people are lucky to cover maintenance fees with a rental. Better to just use the week yourself, if you can.

Even high end timeshares, appear to be not always a wise investment.

I see Marriott rentals on Red week for 1000 to 1500, all day long. If maintenance is 1000 a year or more, I am only paying 300 to 500 a year more to rent. In 10 years that is 3K to 5K, vs paying 15K to 25K for timeshare.

Selling the timeshare, you may break even.

RCI is renting very nice resorts for 500 to 900 per week.

Provided you buy timeshare resale, and factor is true costs....it appears that renting may be the best option for many travelers.


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## brucecz (Dec 17, 2007)

I think the more the general public is exposed to timeshares after going on paid timeshare tours, some will be interested and check out the internet as they would prefer a timeshare unit compared to a small hotel unit.

The interenet helps even the playing field for us owners who want to rent out their units. 

As one timeshare friend said, cash is king and if you rent direct from another owner you can get  were you want to go instead of tying up about $230 to $250 for a yealy membership fee and a exchange fee  with the big 2, RCI and II.

When you take that $230 to $250 total in related exchange fees, plus the maintenance fees and if you have a  semi desirable location and timeframe, then you can rent out for a decent profit and rent something from someelse that is your first choice.

But there is no garrentee that your unit will rent, let alone rent out at a profit and if it is not very desireable you may not fully your maintenance fees even if you do rent it out.

But still even if you do not fully cover your maintences fees when you rent but if you consider the exchange fees renting is a viable option for vacations instead of just using the exchange companies sometimes  limited prime inventorty.



Bruce


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## Robert D (Dec 17, 2007)

We own 3 TS weeks and are in the process of buying a 4th, all bought resale in the past 18 months.  All of them can be reserved for the peak season in their respective locations. Joined II back in the summer but have never done an exchange because of what is very accurately described above. When we knew we would not use a week, we'd make a reservation for the highest demand week we could and then rented the weeks at a nice profit over our M&T.  Thus far, we've not had a problem renting any of that we didn't want to use. On the other hand, if we had not been able to reserve the highest demand weeks of the year and were stuck with a medium demand week, we'd probably would have been lucky to cover our M&T fee. We've also rented two units from their owners at resorts / locations we didn't own that we wanted to use. So, instead of messing with an exchange, we rented ours that we didn't need and then rented someone else's week that they didn't need and both parties were very pleased in each one that we've done thus far. There were no exchange fees and I think when you rent from an owner, you're a notch up from an exchanger (but still a notch down from an owner) in the priority list when you check in. That said, most TS owners are not willing to go to the trouble of finding a renter for their TS and they'll just use the exchange companies.

I agree totally with the comments above that it makes little sense to buy a TS week that is not in a peak season, especially in locations that are really seasonal such as Colorado or Tahoe (most all locations have a fair degree of seaonality to them).  Anything below the highest season can usually be rented for no more (and many times less) than the M&T, and renters have no $'s tied up in a TS purchase or ownership risk in the future.


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## DeniseM (Dec 17, 2007)

kkan said:


> Renting would work great if some type of stock exchange like entity could be created.  This business would maintain listings, show prices offered and bid for specific units.  Historic prices would be shown to guide future bids and offers.  This business should also guarantee the transaction and perform escrow services.  If the fee for these services could be between $50 and $100 (maybe higher), renting would take off.



Like www.bidshares.com?


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## TUGBrian (Dec 17, 2007)

that feature will exist in the new classified ad program on TUG.


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## brucecz (Dec 18, 2007)

Please supply as many details as you can as it of interest to us as a long time advertiser in the classfieds. Thanks

Bruce


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## rickandcindy23 (Dec 18, 2007)

Robert D said:


> I agree totally with the comments above that it makes little sense to buy a TS week that is not in a peak season, especially in locations that are really seasonal such as Colorado or Tahoe (most all locations have a fair degree of seaonality to them).  Anything below the highest season can usually be rented for no more (and many times less) than the M&T, and renters have no $'s tied up in a TS purchase or ownership risk in the future.



Colorado and Tahoe have summer and winter high seasons.  There are only 12weeks a year in Colorado that are blue or green, same with Tahoe.  I don't think there are even any white or yellow weeks anymore, which RCI and II changed to red.  People WILL ski in winter, but those with kids will travel in summer.  

There are many areas that have lots of blue and green, but Colorado and Tahoe do not fall into that category.


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## kkan (Dec 18, 2007)

DeniseM said:


> Like www.bidshares.com?



Is this site popular - If it is not popular, why don't people use it?


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## london (Dec 18, 2007)

*Bidshares*

Lots of timeshares listed for sale or rent. 

Many of the for sale units are in non desireable areas or off season weeks.

The better timeshares, have very high asking prices or reserves.

The site is worth a look every so often, as there could be a "sleeper" in the bunch.

I just picked up a nice Gulf Front 1BR, Silver Crown Unit for 1.00. The owner just wanted out....


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## DeniseM (Dec 18, 2007)

kkan said:


> Is this site popular - If it is not popular, why don't people use it?



I use it for my rentals and get a decent response.  Unless you go for a lot of add-ons, it's free!


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## PerryM (Dec 18, 2007)

*The Snidely Whiplash Fan Club...*

The problem with renting your unit and taking the proceeds and renting another timeshare unit are many, the main problems are:

1)	You must market and involve selling your rental
2)	You must become a landlord
3)	You must pay taxes on the rental income

I’m now approaching 125 rentals so I can speak with some background to the following:

*Marketing and selling your rental:*

Redweek and MyResortNetwork are great places to advertise your rental.  VRBO is another choice if you are renting for more than $2,000.  eBay is where I rent 75% of my units.  You must become Square Trade verified and learn how eBay works and have a track record.

Picking a rental price is very hard to do.  You must do research and just when you think you have a great price you realize your competition for the exact week and unit that is 25% cheaper than you.  What do you do?


Snidely Whiplash fan club: 

You must control the entire transaction and make sure the rental has no problems.  Be prepared for renters to come back bellyaching that for various reasons they can’t make the vacation and want their money back or they will trash you on eBay.  What to do?

A renter doesn’t trust you so they want to escrow the money with a 3rd party and you should pay the fees.  What do you do?

As the landlord you must be the hard ass and kick ass.  Many folks can’t do this; luckily I have no problems in this area.


*Uncle Sam wants a taste of the action:*

Rental income is taxable and your profits will shrink when you must write a check to Uncle Sam for being a silent partner who will break your legs if you don’t pay him.


*Conclusion:*

For these and many more reasons renting out a timeshare is NOT for the faint of heart.  For those who do rent this can mean a great return on your money invested and indeed pay for the MFs of the unit and even after the taxes the rental income can be used for other vacation items.  I have a separate checking account that the rentals are deposited and expenses are recognized.  I find that we use the money to pay the airline tickets, car rentals, ski lift tickets and for other activities on vacation. 

However, I just don’t think of the rental income being applied to renting other timeshares.  I’ve never rented another timeshare since we have so many now.  But that’s just me.


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## JLB (Dec 19, 2007)

Deleted entire post in favor of the next one.


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## JLB (Dec 19, 2007)

Post #167

http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?p=437349#post437349



timeos2 said:


> The only thing preventing this from working is if a group - RCI comes to mind here - bastardizes the rental system by taking in units under the guise of trading  - thus paying NOTHING for the time - and then turning around and offering it to the public at cut rate prices.


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## JLB (Dec 20, 2007)

I did not mean for that last post to be taken personally or to be argumentative, and I'm glad no one took it that way.

But *I am serious.*

We have seen many of these statements the past few years, about RCI supposedly raiding the exchange pools of all the good stuff and offering it as rentals.

Over the same timeframe I have seen the good stuff, and now the lesser stuff, disappear from SW FL during Snowbird Season.

There is an inclination to relate one to the other.  But, I have never found the link, nor has anyone else.

If anyone can show where SW FL RCI-affiliated timeshare resorts are being offered for rent for Weeks 1-16, on any RCI-related site, please post the link.

Thanks.


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## TUGBrian (Dec 20, 2007)

brucecz said:


> Please supply as many details as you can as it of interest to us as a long time advertiser in the classfieds. Thanks
> 
> Bruce



well...its actually been a work in progress for over 18 months now...which has had its ups and downs...mostly downs.

hired two separate people to do the work...both have dragged their feet and ultimately stopped working on it.

had a 3rd option which was sold to us (the beta ads section here on the bbs) that was supposed to be able to handle all the items we wanted when we bought it...sadly it was discovered it wouldnt.

So we are back again starting over with development of a new custom ad program that will integrated with the reviews....you will see a new TAB on each review that will list all the rentals/for sales/for exchanges for that resort...as well as a publicly available search feature that will allow non TUG members to view and sort all ads (they just wont see the reviews etc)

it will also keep a history of prices...sold/rented/exchanged counts...and various other doodads.


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## hunkyleebo (Dec 20, 2007)

Many resort management companies need to work harder to help owners rent their units.  Their inventory needs to be visible on large travel websites and the resort websites need to do a better job of pushing rentals.

Many of us don't have time to fool with renting individual weeks and we just want to cover our MFs.  

I like the "Guaranteed Rental" program at Coconut Palms II in New Smyrna Beach that takes your week and rents it instead of charging you your annual MFs.


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## brucecz (Dec 20, 2007)

TUG Improvements,  thank you for the updates.

Bruce


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## brucecz (Dec 20, 2007)

hunkyleebo said:


> Many resort management companies need to work harder to help owners rent their units.  Their inventory needs to be visible on large travel websites and the resort websites need to do a better job of pushing rentals.
> 
> Many of us don't have time to fool with renting individual weeks and we just want to cover our MFs.
> 
> I like the "Guaranteed Rental" program at Coconut Palms II in New Smyrna Beach that takes your week and rents it instead of charging you your annual MFs.



If your week does not rent then does the ""Guaranteed Rental" still pay your MF's?  Under this system aren't the higher demand weeks thatrent for more money getting a worst return than a say a Blue Week week 50?

I used to own in Daytona  which is near New Smyrna and those weeks  48, 49, 50 are dogs on the rental market.  That is why I would not put our week 52 in that resorts rental pool as I would have received the   average for the  month which included the Dogweeks of 49 and 50.

Bruce


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## JLB (Dec 20, 2007)

Our rental pool was by weeks, not months.

Totally off-topic, I heard on the Travel Channel that the sharkbite capital of the world is . . . New Smyrna Beach!  Who'dathunkit?  More per year than all of Australia!



brucecz said:


> I used to own in Daytona  which is near New Smyrna and those weeks  48, 49, 50 are dogs on the rental market.  That is why I would not put our week 52 in that resorts rental pool as I would have received the   average for the  month which included the Dogweeks of 49 and 50.
> 
> Bruce


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## hunkyleebo (Dec 21, 2007)

I don't know about other weeks there, but mine is floating 1-52, so theoretically I could have reserved a July 4th week and gotten higher rent than my MF, but I don't want to fool with it.

The whole idea behind the "guaranteed" is that you don't have to wonder whether it'll rent or keep checking back to see if you need to deposit it with an exchange company.  They pay the MF whether it rents or not (and they probably just manage a pool of available weeks to shift around availability to meet rental demand).

I have 9 weeks now, and until I can unload some of them, there's no way to use them all, and several are difficult to rent.


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## brucecz (Dec 21, 2007)

Thanks for thr reply.  Seems like its work for both interests. Thats good.

Bruce


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## Polly Metallic (Dec 21, 2007)

In my opinion, renting out a unit is a pain and lining up a rental is also a pain. We rent our Maui unit frequently, but the resort handles it, and even though they charge 30%, they get more than I would as an owner offering it directly, so it comes out the same and I don't have the hassles. 

This may be slightly off the original train of thought, but it's something that I've been stewing about: It's too bad that excess supply has so altered the true value of timeshare rentals. If you consider the value of what you get with a condo compared to a hotel room, and you think about what most mediocre hotel rooms cost, there's no contest. That's why we all bought timeshares. You typically can't get a room at a mediocre hotel for less than timeshare maintenance fees. The problem is that due to excess supply, the exchange companies, and owners, and developers, all sell excess timeshare weeks for equal to or less than maintenance fees. These weeks are "worth more" but due to over-supply, they don't command a higher price.


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## PerryM (Dec 21, 2007)

Polly Metallic said:


> In my opinion, renting out a unit is a pain and lining up a rental is also a pain. We rent our Maui unit frequently, but the resort handles it, and even though they charge 30%, they get more than I would as an owner offering it directly, so it comes out the same and I don't have the hassles.
> 
> This may be slightly off the original train of thought, but it's something that I've been stewing about: It's too bad that excess supply has so altered the true value of timeshare rentals. If you consider the value of what you get with a condo compared to a hotel room, and you think about what most mediocre hotel rooms cost, there's no contest. That's why we all bought timeshares. You typically can't get a room at a mediocre hotel for less than timeshare maintenance fees. The problem is that due to excess supply, the exchange companies, and owners, and developers, all sell excess timeshare weeks for equal to or less than maintenance fees. These weeks are "worth more" but due to over-supply, they don't command a higher price.



As I've asked many times "Are we in a timeshare bubble?"  If so, keep sharp objects out of timeshare resorts!


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## Steamboat Bill (Dec 23, 2007)

PerryM said:


> I’m now approaching 125 rentals so I can speak with some background



Question of the day - Who are you gonna take?:

DIA vs your 125 Timeshare rentals


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## PerryM (Dec 23, 2007)

Steamboat Bill said:


> Question of the day - Who are you gonna take?:
> 
> DIA vs your 125 Timeshare rentals



Maybe it's the mountain air here at Park City, but I don't understand the question.

If you are asking about the stock market, DIA is the answer.

If you are talking about making the timeshare portfolio cost zero for the year then renting timeshares does that for me.  It's a game that I play.

Well back to snowboarding....

Merry Christmas to everyone - have a happy New Year's too.


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## Steamboat Bill (Dec 23, 2007)

PerryM said:


> Maybe it's the mountain air here at Park City, but I don't understand the question.



Would would be a better investment or what one of the two would you choose: DIA or your timeshare rental business?

I will be in Park City in Feb-March...how is it there now?

I have some friends that will be at SummitWatch Dec 23-Jan 4 or so. They are paying $800 per night to Marriott for the rental.

PS...it is good to see your avatar again!


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## Jya-Ning (Dec 23, 2007)

Steamboat Bill said:


> Would would be a better investment or what one of the two would you choose: DIA or your timeshare rental business?



If just these two.  DIA will get thumb up.  It does not need personal involve.  Come to tax time, unless you do a lot of trading, the brokerage firm will come up a nice form to tell you your cost base and your divident (unless they sold out then they will mess up your cost base).  DIA's value over any 10 year time period will always come positive.  If you forget you own DIA, it will not get foreclosue.  TS can not say the same in any of this item.  You need at least 200% return compare TS renting to DIA return to make both close.

 

Jya-Ning


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## PerryM (Dec 23, 2007)

Steamboat Bill said:


> Would would be a better investment or what one of the two would you choose: DIA or your timeshare rental business?
> 
> I will be in Park City in Feb-March...how is it there now?
> 
> ...



The better investment is DIA (DJIA).

However, it's fun to see if we can use our timeshares, take fantastic vacations, and wind up not paying a penny for them.  How do you compare a timeshare, that has been paid for by rental income over the year and it still generates rental income?

We are in a 2BR Week 51 at MountainSide this week.  We used to own this week and sold it since getting back is no big deal.  Got here with a 2BR Gold Summit Watch this year.  That cost me $5,000 to buy.  I'm going to check this week but I believe Marriott sells the week for $55,000.  Had to do two II exchanges the studio side and 1BR.  Marriott put them together for us.

We have an unbelievable view of PayDay from our front window.

How does one put a value on this?  Me, it's that smile in my avatar.


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## rickandcindy23 (Dec 23, 2007)

DIA, Denver International Airport.  What is DIA?  I may be dense, but I don't get all of the initials.


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## PerryM (Dec 24, 2007)

*FYI*



rickandcindy23 said:


> DIA, Denver International Airport.  What is DIA?  I may be dense, but I don't get all of the initials.




The "Diamonds" DIA is a synthetic stock - it was created by the AMEX (American Stock Exchange) as a way to buy the DJIA (DOW Jones Industrial Average) without having to actually buy all 30 stocks and in the proper ratios.

There are other synectics like the "Spiders" SPY  which is actually the S&P 500 which is 500 stocks.

The advantage of buying Diamonds or Spiders is that you don't need some MBA somewhere telling you to buy his dream stock of the day; you own the "Market" and over a long period of time no guru can keep up with it.

FYI


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## tombo (Dec 24, 2007)

I agree with Perry. I take 5 to 6 weeks vacation a year free by renting out excess weeks I own thereby covering all of my MF's. It is a hobby that has risks and rewards. If the economy tanks and I eat a lot of weeks I will lose. If a couple of Hurricanes force me to refund money to my beach going renters then I will not like my hobby near as much. However, when the timeshare moon and stars align and I am sitting in Kauai in an ocean front 2 bed room sipping Mai Tai's on my private Lanai for free, it is a hobby I LOVE!


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## tombo (Dec 24, 2007)

Bill, your friends paid $800 a night to rent from Marriott? I hate to tell you but on red week.com, a week at Marriott Summit Watch recently rented in a 2 bed room 2 bath from Dec 30th to Jan 6th 2008 for $250 for the whole week (or $36 a night). Check it out.  The post is still there but shows rented. You really should let your friends know about redweek.com and myresortnetwork.com. I am sure they would be thrilled to know that they could have stayed in the same resort, for the same dates, in the same accomodations, and saved $5350.


Friends don't let friends pay retail.


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## Steamboat Bill (Dec 24, 2007)

tombo said:


> Bill, your friends paid $800 a night to rent from Marriott? I hate to tell you but on red week.com, a week at Marriott Summit Watch recently rented in a 2 bed room 2 bath from Dec 30th to Jan 6th 2008 for $250 for the whole week (or $36 a night). Check it out.  The post is still there but shows rented. You really should let your friends know about redweek.com and myresortnetwork.com. I am sure they would be thrilled to know that they could have stayed in the same resort, for the same dates, in the same accomodations, and saved $5350.
> 
> 
> Friends don't let friends pay retail.



Some of my Boca Raton friends do things that I don't understand....like buying a MGV from Marriott for $25k even thought I told them about resales.

I actually have two different friends renting two 2-bedroom Marriott SW  units this week for $800 per night and were happy to pay those rates as they were considering Stein Erickson at Der Valley for much more.

The redweek rental price for that week seems "unrealistic" and is probably a mistake as the annual dues is about $1000 for the week and the price to buy a week 51 is about $50k. The other listings are in the $500 per night range.


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## Transit (Dec 24, 2007)

timeos2 said:


> With all the various threads we see here regarding lack of exchange opportunities, the inability to specify units or resorts or exact dates and more and the general trend toward mini-systems that control inventory the idea that renting rather than any type of third party exchange service is the ultimate way to handle timeshare exchange may have merit.



I've decided awhile back that instead of buying more TS I would just keep the one I own and rent any additional weeks needed.The value is I go when and where I want to go.I do like TSing but I still use hotels, cruises,home and apartment rentals depending on where I'm going. Renting works for me.


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## tombo (Dec 24, 2007)

It is not a misprint. It rented for that low price($250) because someone wanted to make sure to not eat their week as the date is rapidly approaching and an unrented week is a lost week. As the time gets closer you can find many steals if you can travel last minute.  As for the majority that are listed for rent for $500 a night, those prices are negotiable, and even if not, it is $300 a night cheaper so a $2100 savings per week over what they paid Marriott. 

It is one thing to be able to afford ridiculously high prices to spend a week at a Marriott. It is sad if they know they are paying too much and still do it. A fool and his riches are soon parted. 

Never buy from the developer and never rent from the resort if you can rent from an owner.


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## PerryM (Dec 25, 2007)

We've snowboarded at The Canyons for 2 days now - looks like Westgate is doubling the size of their resort.  Those folks will be asked to easily part with $75k for a Christmas 2BR week and they will sell all of them out first (With New Year's Week at probably $80k and President's week at $80k - these are just guesses)

MountainSide is starting to show some wear and tear but our unit has new furniture and the rug looks great.  I'm glad to see the Marriott owners keeping the place up.


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## PerryM (Dec 25, 2007)

tombo said:


> It is not a misprint. It rented for that low price($250) because someone wanted to make sure to not eat their week as the date is rapidly approaching and an unrented week is a lost week. As the time gets closer you can find many steals if you can travel last minute.  As for the majority that are listed for rent for $500 a night, those prices are negotiable, and even if not, it is $300 a night cheaper so a $2100 savings per week over what they paid Marriott.
> 
> It is one thing to be able to afford ridiculously high prices to spend a week at a Marriott. It is sad if they know they are paying too much and still do it. A fool and his riches are soon parted.
> 
> Never buy from the developer and never rent from the resort if you can rent from an owner.



The owner is nuts...bonkers...insane....dare I say stupid.

Summit Watch easily rents and obviously the owner has no idea what the thing is worth.

Oh well, someone at Summit Watch has a smile so large that they probably look like the Joker from the Batman movie - keep a watch out for someone with that grin.


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## Steamboat Bill (Dec 25, 2007)

PerryM said:


> We've snowboarded at The Canyons for 2 days now - looks like Westgate is doubling the size of their resort.  Those folks will be asked to easily part with $75k for a Christmas 2BR week and they will sell all of them out first (With New Year's Week at probably $80k and President's week at $80k - these are just guesses).



The new construction at the Westgate is for condo-hotels. They are about $1m for a 2 bedroom and are extremely nice.

I did a tour there last year and tried to get HCC to buy one, but they passed.

I am happy I bought my Westgate 2BDR timeshare ski week for $25k.

Perry, how are the conditions? 

Did you try the sushi at the Lookout Canyon for lunch?
Did you try the Viking Yurt for dinner?


Those are my two favorite places at the Canyons.


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## PerryM (Dec 25, 2007)

Steamboat Bill said:


> The new construction at the Westgate is for condo-hotels. They are about $1m for a 2 bedroom and are extremely nice.
> 
> I did a tour there last year and tried to get HCC to buy one, but they passed.
> 
> ...



Condo-hotels?  I don't know about buying at the Canyons - I guess if American Skiing sells the place and IntraWest buys it the place will explode in value.

So far we've been to the Main Street Pizza and Noodle and a dinner at some Korean friends that are with us.  They love hot food - eye watering hot food and they are at the Park Plaza.

We will go to the Grub Steak at some point but my 21 year old son and I are into "plain folk" food and the reason we love Park City.  But Park City has great restaurants and those Yurts that we snowboarded by yesterday.  I think they were slaughtering a goat outside but I could be wrong.

Merry Christmas and how is Stowe and the HCC?

P.S.
Conditions are great but they had an avalanche on Sunday  at the Canyons that killed one person and injured another.  This was at the top of 9990 and my son has snowboarded that before....  We were there at the time it happened too - one mountain over at Peak 5.  If I wasn't with my son he would have taken the 9990 - something to think about.

P.P.S.
The Canyons was a ghost town yesterday - a storm was going to hit a noon and it did - fantastic time - we snowboarded for 15 minutes before seeing anyone else - fantastic.

Last night we walked from the MountainSide to the Baja Cantina in a raging snow storm (Could not see 5' in front of us) and had our traditional Christmas Eve dinner at Park City.  I had THE best Margarita I've ever had in my life - had 3 of them in fact.  I got the recipe as a Christmas gift


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## Pit (Dec 25, 2007)

PerryM said:


> Condo-hotels?  I don't know about buying at the Canyons - I guess if American Skiing sells the place and IntraWest buys it the place will explode in value.



It's already been sold -- to a development company called Talisker, although the sale is being heavily litigated with Vail Resorts and Wolf Mountain (the landlord) trying to block the sale.


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## JLB (Dec 25, 2007)

There has been a mention of last minute rentals, so let me make this plug for last minute RCI exchanges--the 14-Day window.

This morning I picked up a 2-bedroom/2-bath, Silver Crown on Ft. Myers Beach, rated just slightly worse than the upper-tier HGVC SW FL Gulffront Gold Crowns, for Week 1--next Week.

We will _switch_, hopefully, from a lower-rated 1-bed/1-bath down the road.

It is somewhat reassuring that it was in the exchange pool, not a rental site, which still no one has found for SW FL RCI resorts (that I know of).

Also this past week I picked up another 2-bedroom Gold Crown for our annual summer sojourn, using our worst-trading deposit.

Yes, it has become more difficult, but, for now for us, RCI is still a value for those willing to be diligent, IMO--comparably diligent to renting out yours and renting another to use--and with slightly more peace of mind.
- - - - - -
Maybe someone has mentioned it, but, how would y'all feel if when _giving_ your week to an exchange company you had the option of _giving_ it to a rental program of the exchange company, for an amount of money, rather than for an exchange?

For those who neither use their week nor want an exchange, that may be a way to recoup annual fees.  Those who aren't using their timeshares may hang onto them with such a program.


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## Steamboat Bill (Dec 25, 2007)

PerryM said:


> Condo-hotels?  I don't know about buying at the Canyons - I guess if American Skiing sells the place and IntraWest buys it the place will explode in value.
> 
> Merry Christmas and how is Stowe and the HCC?
> 
> ...



I, personally thought the condos were overpriced, but would make a good addition to the HCC family. 

We are still in Sunny Florida...we leave for Stowe on Dec 29th and I will post from there.

That 9990 is a very challenging run that is DEEP in powder and never groomed and no easy way down. I like it, but it is still hard for my kids, my wife...well forget that. Most of the avalanches on that peak happen off to the left (if looking up the mountain) and it "technically" is NOT part of the Canyons. If you ski there, there are many signs of crossbones and skulls and warnings that you can be killed. I decided to pass on that out-of-bounds run. Every year, someone dies there from an avalanche. If you look closely at the trail map, that area is marked off in yellow to clearly state it is NOT the Canyons.

Where did you have the margaritas?

Merry Christmas to you and your family!

PS...try the two restaurants I recommended!!!


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## PerryM (Dec 25, 2007)

Don't forget RedWeek's exchange system.  I don't know what a Summit Watch would bring in RW Points but it is now an alternative.  Use the RW Points later for an exchange.


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## PerryM (Dec 25, 2007)

Steamboat Bill said:


> I, personally thought the condos were overpriced, but would make a good addition to the HCC family.
> 
> We are still in Sunny Florida...we leave for Stowe on Dec 29th and I will post from there.
> 
> ...




I was watching the local Salt Lake TV news and they stated the avalanche did happen on Canyon property.  There is a "gate" that you must pass that states you are on your own and that there is a real avalanche danger.  I don't know how that will hold up in court but I'm sure someone will sue the Canyons over this one.

The Margaritas are at the Baja Cantina which is in the PC Mountain Resort complex.


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## thetimeshareguy (Dec 25, 2007)

Nowadays renting is a good option if you want to obtain good vacations in high-demand places, especially during peak season (like Hawaii during March Break).

So, let's share some opinions about some of the rental companies out there. No shilling -- but let us know of independent rental companies that are bona fide.


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## funtime (Dec 25, 2007)

*Last minute rentals great*

I have seen some fabulous stuff in last minute rentals on the TUG board -- as good as any exchange.  Funtime


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