# Tenor Sax Lost/Stolen Sax at school, found damaged 2 yrs later - what to do?



## pjrose (Feb 14, 2010)

I’d like your opinions please.  

Summary: DD had to leave Band for medical reasons, her tenor sax "went missing" (not her fault).  Two years later it appeared, in beat up condition.  Now what?

Details:     

DD owned a used tenor sax in very good condition, not beat up, maintained and cared for with good sound (value ~$700).  In Fall 2007 (10th grade) DD developed a cardio-vascular condition that led to fainting.  DD was dizzy several times in Band class, then in Spring 2008 blacked out in class and the school nurse called an ambulance and me.  During the commotion with the EMTs etc I said “What about her saxophone?” and someone (can’t remember who) said “We’ll take care of it”.    Band students have instrument lockers, so I assumed “we’ll take care of it” meant someone would put it in her locker and it would be safe.  

DD was out of school for over a month b/c of the medical problem and had to drop band class.  Later in the semester we went to get her sax; her locker was locked but empty.  We searched several times and looked in all lockers (they are open-wire “cages”) but didn’t see it.  (It had a brown case instead of the usual black, plus a bright luggage tag with her name, so was easily identifiable.)  We also checked various storerooms in the band area.  

I emailed the band teacher several times, with a description + serial number.  He emailed back he didn’t know where it was.  I asked him to please check with all the band students and to ask the tenor sax players.  I even suggested he offer the kids a $50 reward to whoever found it.  (As far as I know from another student still in band, he did not follow through with these requests.)

Almost two years later (last week) DD and a friend noticed a brown case in the band room, with a ticket from a repair shop, but no luggage tag with DD’s name.  They texted me that they thought they had found it.  

I came in after school with my original purchase paperwork as well as copies of the email correspondence with the band director in which I had mentioned the color of the case and the serial number.  The serial number on the repair shop ticket matched DD’s sax.  

I had the principal (band dir wasn’t there) open the case, and showed him the receipt + emails to confirm the serial number matched. An accessory inside the case even had her name on it. It was missing a $100 mouthpiece and padded strap. The principal commented that it was really beat up (lots of dents and scratches) and I agreed that I did not recall it looking that bad. I said I’d check with DD to see if it was worse than it had been, and asked what we could do if it was worse.  I can’t recall his exact comment, but something along the lines of “let’s wait and see”.

The repair tag listed about $100 of repairs, mostly straightening various bent things including the neck, body, and keys.  The principal and I agreed that I wasn’t responsible for the repairs, given that someone at the school had been using and had damaged the sax.   I took the sax home. 

I asked the Band dir where it had been; he said it just appeared in a locker a month or so ago, he doesn’t know where it was or who was using it, and probably “everyone” assumed it was school equipment (everyone except whoever took off the tag with her name on it).  (Students use school equipment for spares if theirs is broken, or in lieu of carrying theirs in from home.)  Given the accessory with her name sharpie-marked on it, whoever was using it likely knew it was hers….

The issue now is that the sax is quite dented and scratched.  It was not perfect, but was well cared for and now is really beat up.  

My opinion and those of others to whom I’ve talked vary:    

1.	Be happy it was found, don’t worry about the fact that it’s now quite beat up, even if it’s worth half of what it was before, it’s worth more than the $0 it was worth when it was missing.  The school probably won’t cover further repairs anyway and it’s not worth the hassle.   

2.	The school is responsible, the band director knew hers was missing and knew the case was an unusual color and knew the brand and s/n. There are only a few tenor sax players and it is not a common instrument in the school, and her name was on the accessory in the case, so he should have noticed that it was hers and returned it to us much earlier.   He should have been responsible for equipment that he thought belonged to the school even if he didn’t know it was hers, and shouldn’t have let students beat it up so badly. Ask the Band dir / school to have the shop fix it up to remove scratches and dents as much as possible, or ask them to compensate us for the lost value, or ask them to buy it from us at its original value and they can have it as a spare, given they’ve been using it that way for almost two years.

Tug opinions?


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## Passepartout (Feb 14, 2010)

I think we have a band director who isn't paying attention. You should find out who gave it to the repair shop. That will give you an idea who had it. If, as I suspect, it was being treated as 'the school's instrument', then the school would rightfully be responsible for either restoring it for your DD or buying it for the value it was when they received it from her.

Incidentally, was it covered by insurance? Musical instruments are frequently covered by homeowner's insurance. 

OTOH, if DD is not interested in continuing with it, you could write it off as a charitable contribution to the school district. 

I'm going with #2 as amended above. Someone knowingly misappropriated the sax and you should be compensated.

Jim Ricks


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## pjrose (Feb 14, 2010)

Passepartout said:


> I think we have a band director who isn't paying attention. *You should find out who gave it to the repair shop.* That will give you an idea who had it. If, as I suspect, it was being treated as 'the school's instrument', then the school would rightfully be responsible for either restoring it for your DD or buying it for the value it was when they received it from her.
> 
> *Incidentally, was it covered by insurance?*  . . .
> 
> Jim Ricks



I think many bandies are often on other planets.......could have something to do with dozens or hundreds of kids making noise with drums and big brass horns.

The band director sent it to the repair shop, I assume after it "appeared" a few months ago in a locker (probably not coincidentally, after Marching Band season was over).  He said he hadn't checked the s/n and didn't know it was hers.  (Otherwise I suspect we would have gotten it back in worse condition than we did 'cause he probably would not have sent it for repair.)

Maybe it's covered by insurance, but our deductible is higher than that.


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## Passepartout (Feb 14, 2010)

pjrose said:


> *The band director sent it to the repair shop*, I assume after it "appeared" a few months ago in a locker.  He said he hadn't checked the s/n and didn't know it was hers.



I would maintain as I said earlier- he wasn't paying attention. In school districts, instruments don't just magically "appear". Especially those with owner's names on the case and instrument. He/the district should be made to restore the instrument.... Jim


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## Pit (Feb 14, 2010)

pjrose said:


> He said he hadn't checked the s/n and didn't know it was hers.



So, who did he think owned it? In whose locker did it appear? If he believed it was school property, there is a good chance the school has lent it out to one or more students since it went missing.


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## AwayWeGo (Feb 14, 2010)

*Yackety Sax.*




Passepartout said:


> You should find out who gave it to the repair shop. That will give you an idea who had it. If, as I suspect, it was being treated as 'the school's instrument', then the school would rightfully be responsible for either restoring it for your DD or buying it for the value it was when they received it from her.


I think that's right. 

We're talking about a $700 used saxophone here -- not a pristine top-line Selmer (Paris) or Yamaha or Yanigasawa, etc., tenor sax. 

Whoever sent it to the repair shop should now send it back in for further work to get the instrument (a) fully functional, & (b) undented.  I think you can live with the scratches & blemishes as long as the dents are taken out & all the keywork, etc., is good to go.  

Even ignoring cosmetic appearance of the instrument, getting it back into 1st class playing condition could involve running up a repair bill close to the original $700 purchase price, depending on how much needs to be done.  Quality instrument repair work does not come cheap. 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


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## AwayWeGo (Feb 14, 2010)

*Sax On The Web.*

Click here for _Sax On The Web Forums_ -- powered by vBulletin software, just like TUG-BBS. 

Who'd a-thunk ? 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


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## pjrose (Feb 14, 2010)

AwayWeGo said:


> I think that's right.
> 
> We're talking about a $700 used saxophone here -- not a pristine top-line Selmer (Paris) or Yamaha or Yanigasawa, etc., tenor sax.
> . . .
> ...



It's a student-model Yamaha; we rejected at quite a few beat up ones before choosing this one that was in very attractive condition with nice sound.  It used to have a Selmer C* mouthpiece.  (The mouthpiece cover is the piece that's still in the case, with her name on it.)

DD also has a very nice higher-model Yamaha, used only for concerts - thank goodness that's not the one that was at school!


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## AwayWeGo (Feb 14, 2010)

*Full Disclosure.*

I lost a French horn 1 time.  When I went looking for it, right here at home, I searched high & low & couldn't find it anywhere.  So I forgot about it again.  

Then about 2 years later, when I was over at my brother's house helping him with something unrelated to musical instruments, I noticed the "lost" French horn over with some other stuff.  

It wasn't lost at all -- I had lent it to my brother for some reason, then had put it completely out of my mind.  

My brother does not even play French horn (formerly played tuba & trombone, however), so it was easy to forget he'd borrowed the horn.  

Even so, how does somebody _lose_ a French horn ?

What a _doofus !_  (Me, not you.  Not my brother.). 

BTW, when our older son was starting high school, we bought him an _el cheapo_ no-name ("Senator" or some such) tenor saxophone for $100 or so out of the local classified ads.  (That was before eBay & before Craig's List.)  The tenor was playable, & made a nice addition to his budding collection of instruments (clarinet, yard sale also sax, etc.).  He started on clarinet, then taught himself sax 1 summer when we brought home a $40 Bundy alto when we were out garage sailing.  No reason not to play tenor sax also.  

When marching band season started at school, our son signed up playing tenor.  After 1 football game, he came home in uniform looking noticeably downhearted.  During break, his tenor sax had fallen off a bench seat in the stands & had landed on its neck, pretty severely torquing the neck & putting the sax out of commission.  We took the instrument to the shop & got it going again.  The repair bill was $75 or so.  Next season he played tenor sax again in marching band.  One afternoon during break when all the instruments were lying on the ground, 1 of the band kids walking by accidentally in passing kicked our son's tenor saxophone right on the neck, severely re-torquing the neck & putting the sax out of commission again. We took the sax back to the repair shop & got the re-damaged neck re-repaired -- for about $95, as I recall.  When it came back from the shop, it looked kind of funky but the saxophone still played.  

Our son stuck with clarinet & bass clarinet & saxophones.  When he was a recent high school graduate or possibly already in college, he spent his life savings on a set of brand-new Selmer (Paris) Super Action 80 Series II saxophones -- soprano, alto, tenor, baritone (1 of each).  He still has those today, & still plays'm, mostly the tenor & sometimes also the baritone & the alto (but not much soprano).  I suspect they're worth at least as much today, used, as when he bougt'm new. 

Equipped with an outstanding arsenal of pro-quality saxophones, he sold off his Bundy alto saxophone & his "Senator" tenor saxophone & his King "Zephyr" baritone saxophone & his Borgani Italian-made soprano saxophone.  He still has a garage-sale Olds (Paris) alto saxophone that I doubt has been out of the case more than once during the past 20 years.  He has more instruments than I have, & I've got a major serious oversupply of horns myself (just French horns & a few trumpets & maybe a few clarinets & possibly a flute -- no saxophones).  So it goes. 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


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## AwayWeGo (Feb 14, 2010)

*Yamaha (Japan).*




pjrose said:


> It's a student-model Yamaha; we rejected at quite a few beat up ones before choosing this one that was in very attractive condition with nice sound.  It used to have a Selmer C* mouthpiece.  (The mouthpiece cover is the piece that's still in the case, with her name on it.)
> 
> DD also has a very nice higher-model Yamaha, used only for concerts - thank goodness that's not the one that was at school!


I don't think there are any bad Yamaha instruments. 

I have a couple of'm myself -- an outstanding YHR-666N F-Bb double French horn (eBay special) & an outstanding YHR-321 Bb single French horn (Craig's List special). 

Keepers for sure. 

Click here for a picture of a customized Yamaha YHR-668N F-Bb double horn (eBay special) that I sold after I bought the YHR-666N. 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


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## Patri (Feb 14, 2010)

Did you report it missing to police? That should have been done. Then maybe the teacher and students would have taken the issue seriously.
I vote option 1.
You've lived without it for two years. But it is ok to make the teacher squirm for a while.


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## Ken555 (Feb 14, 2010)

All this talk of instruments is reminding me to find my Bach trumpet and clean it. It's been a long time. 

FWIW, it's the band director's responsibility to make sure the instruments used for school purposes are either owned by the school or the students.


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## pjrose (Feb 14, 2010)

Patri said:


> *Did you report it missing to police?* That should have been done. Then maybe the teacher and students would have taken the issue seriously.
> I vote option 1.
> You've lived without it for two years. But it is ok to make the teacher squirm for a while.



Ah yes, hindsight is 20/20.  Great idea, especially for the reason you state. 

But no, we didn't, b/c honestly we thought it was safely sitting in her locker, and when it wasn't, we expected that it would turn up in the band room somewhere.  There's a huge band room, an adjoining huge storage room, several smaller practice rooms and smaller storage rooms, more little cubbies and cabinets than I can count, at least two offices.....I honestly figured that whoever "took care of it" had stashed it in one of the cabinets, closets, etc.  

In hindsight I might have spent two minutes locking it up it myself.


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## thheath (Feb 14, 2010)

Door #1

Considering you had your hands full and failed to secure the instrument in a timely manner after the medical incident you share some of the blame.


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## BSQ (Feb 14, 2010)

pjrose said:


> I think many bandies are often on other planets.......could have something to do with dozens or hundreds of kids making noise with drums and big brass horns.<snip>



I call  FOUL!  :rofl:


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## rickandcindy23 (Feb 14, 2010)

There cannot be more than a couple of tenor saxes in each of the levels of band.  You can probably narrow it down to five or six kids who didn't have their own instruments to start.  Tenor saxes aren't nearly as popular as the alto saxes in band.  

My son had to switch to tenor sax because there was no one in advanced jazz band who played tenor.  He liked that, because he got to be first chair, whereas his older brother was first chair of the altos.  

I cannot help but think that band teacher is very guilty of allowing some kid to use that sax, without making sure of whose sax it was.  We had three kids in band, and the band teacher would have turned the place upside down to find a missing instrument.


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## Talent312 (Feb 14, 2010)

There seems to be plenty enuff "fault" to go around the block here and no one died. So, rather than trying to find someone to blame or beating yourselves up (both of which are way overdone in our society), how about chillin' just a little and chalk it up "one of those things."


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## billymach4 (Feb 14, 2010)

How about Small Claims Court? The teacher or School District?


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## DebBrown (Feb 14, 2010)

I vote for #2.  Since the school appropriated your instrument, they should keep it and pay you for it.  I personally would not want it back beat up without the mouth piece.

It's unclear to me how much you worked at getting it back.  It appears that you approached the band director and made a reasonable effort to retrieve it.  The school let the ball drop on their end.

Maybe you can negotiate a fair price with the school.

Deb


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## thheath (Feb 14, 2010)

She inquired a month after the fact because some one said they would look after it but she can't remember who that person was.

Let it go, it's not worth the stress and the bad feelings it will cause at school, especially if your daughter still goes there.


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## timeos2 (Feb 14, 2010)

DebBrown said:


> I vote for #2.  Since the school appropriated your instrument, they should keep it and pay you for it.  I personally would not want it back beat up without the mouth piece.
> 
> It's unclear to me how much you worked at getting it back.  It appears that you approached the band director and made a reasonable effort to retrieve it.  The school let the ball drop on their end.
> 
> ...



The school never had the responsibility for the instrument and the teacher most certainly did not. If found (and noticed) they can't just keep it and should have (and most likely did) look to see if they had it (it sounds like another student actually had possession - but maybe not - so proving that anyone was responsible except the parents would be tough). 

It is "one of those things" and you should be happy it showed up at all. If you can find who exactly took it to the repair shop and when you might have a slight case for small claims, but that's about it. Saying you were "too busy" to check its whereabouts for the first month or more virtually guaranteed it would be tough to recover. Had you made the attempt to find it in the first few days to a week most likely you would have had it returned unscathed.  

Write it off. Be thankful your daughter recovered as that is the important part of the story IMO.


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## Elan (Feb 14, 2010)

Although I would agree that the band director _should_ have been more proactive in trying to help find the sax, I don't consider it his responsibility.  Did anyone (your DD or yourself) attend any of the band practices to attempt to identify the sax or directly ask the other band members for assistance in locating the sax after it went missing?

Sorry, but I put myself in camp #1.  Write it off as a learning experience and move on.


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## Rose Pink (Feb 14, 2010)

I don't know what to tell you.  You could go to the principal and ask what amends he thinks is fair on the part of the school--get a feel for who he thinks is responsible.  

It's possible some kid took the instrument and had it for a couple of years then felt guilty and sneaked it back into the band room where the band teacher found it.  Or the guilty party could have just left it anywhere in the school for someone to find and return to the band room.  The point is, it may not have been in the school for the past couple of years before turning up.

Now, I can understand that the band teacher may have forgotten about the incident two years ago with your daughter but her name on the mouthpiece should have tweaked his memory.  Then again, he may be as forgetful as I am.


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