# Westin Princeville Ocean Resort Villa - Mistake?



## puffpuff (Apr 29, 2007)

Just completed a sales presentation of the Princeville 178 unit 2 bedroom /lockoff 1350 sq feet ( MF $2000) per year. Partial completion and open for occupancy in mid 2008, with full completion by Jan 2009. All ocean view units, floating 1-50.

My wife and I just love Kauai and this is the island we want to buy. Would appreciate any one with information on whether this is a good purchase at this time from developer. We are interested in eoy and instead of buying a eoy for liste pricce of $33000, developer is allowing us to buy one annual week at $ 48500 and split into two deeds, each eoy, effectively paying $24250 each , which seems to be discount to the$33000 on face value. Based on what I see at wkorv-n, a resale eoy seems to be running at about 19000k while annual of similar size ( 2 bedromm lock out) whole units at 30,000 resale.  

I have learned a lot from Tug and one principal is not to buy retail from developer due to a 40-50% haircut normally at resell . 

In this case, each unit cost $24500 eoy usage. I figure that at resale of 19,000 and my purhcase price of 24500, my loss will be about 20% from developer price and not the normal 50% disscount, and since we are keeping for long term and likey to pass to kids, and at the meantime we can have some points to use as a flexible option, we can swallow a 20% haircut .

Am I making a mistake in my assumption of 20% haircut ?? Any help is appreciated as I am in the 7 days right of recinding period. 

By the way, their maintenance fee is quite high at $2000 per year for annual usage. 

Any comparable offerings from other companies if you feel offer better value for similar level of product offering in the Princeville area is also appreciated. 

Michael


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## chemteach (Apr 29, 2007)

WPORV will probably have a much lower resale value than WKORV because if you sell WPORV, the abilitiy to use staroptions to exchange to other starwood resortss does not transfer with the purchase.  No one knows what resale prices will look like until resales begin to appear on the market.


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## stevens397 (Apr 29, 2007)

Chemteach is technically right, but you indicated that you intend to keep it forever!  Things do change over time and the resales will be weaker than at a Mandatory resort. 

To me it would come down to the number of points and the value you can get from them.  I have been able to routinely get in excess of 5 cents per point.  I got 125,000 points with my Kierland purchase + another 27,000 from using the Starwood credit card for the purchase.  Those 150,000+ points ended up being worth $7,000+ in hotel stays.  It would probably not be replicable since the devaluation.  But to me, I would want to know how many points they are giving you and then give a more informed answer.  That said, if the net difference were then $2,000 or so, I would go with the developer.  But that's just me.


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## duke (Apr 29, 2007)

puffpuff said:


> Just completed a sales presentation of the Princeville 178 unit 2 bedroom /lockoff 1350 sq feet ( MF $2000) per year. Partial completion and open for occupancy in mid 2008, with full completion by Jan 2009. All ocean view units, floating 1-50.
> 
> My wife and I just love Kauai and this is the island we want to buy. Would appreciate any one with information on whether this is a good purchase at this time from developer. We are interested in eoy and instead of buying a eoy for liste pricce of $33000, developer is allowing us to buy one annual week at $ 48500 and split into two deeds, each eoy, effectively paying $24250 each , which seems to be discount to the$33000 on face value. Based on what I see at wkorv-n, a resale eoy seems to be running at about 19000k while annual of similar size ( 2 bedromm lock out) whole units at 30,000 resale.
> Michael



I agree that Princeville is going to be an excellent resort especially since it is associated with the St Regis - Princeville Hotel.

However, there is a much better strategy for making your purchase.  This was recently done by DavidandRobin.  They purchased Princeville at the Westin Kierland Resort.  They were able to purchase one EOY for $24,250 and got 100,000 incentive points.  If you use your Starwood American Express you will receive and additional 48,500 starpoints.  

Also, if you purchase a voluntary resale on the resale market FIRST then you can use the Princville developer EOY purchase to requalify the voluntary resort.  This will give you more StarOptions to trade or StarPoints to use in hotels.

The $2,000 maint fee is high but remember it does not start until next year and is an estimate.  Check out the maint fees at WKORV Maui and then project another increase for next year and it is close.

Here is the link to DavidandRobin experience:

http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=43598&page=2

The pre-construction pricing at Princeville is low compared to Maui so you will have to wiat some time before you will be able to recoup a high percentage of your purchase price.  That is, resale prices will take some time to approach those of Maui.  As well, you have the Voluntary vs Mandatory issue.

All the best,
duke


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## Avery (Apr 29, 2007)

*location?*

Does anyone know where the location will be in relation to the Princeville Hotel and the Hanalei Bay resort?


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## puffpuff (Apr 29, 2007)

it is located about 1.5 miles away from Princeville Hotel and Hanalai Bay. BTW, I was going to purchase a annual Hanalai Bay Resort on the resale market for about $18000 ( 2 bedroom, no lockoff; 80% of them has ocean view) which seems to be a great deal until we went to the Westin presentation .


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## puffpuff (Apr 29, 2007)

Thanks for all the help so far folks. Having slept on it overnight, it appears by the time I factor in a 5% interest on the purchase price  of $ 48500 equaling about $ 2000 a year, plus adding the MF of $2000  a year, I am in effect paying about $4000 for 7 nights stay in total or about $600 a night. Am I stinggy? As a value oriented person, I am not sure this purchase qulifies as a good value?

To answer Stevens question, they are giving 100,000 points, but that is on purchase of an annaul ( $ 48500) that is split into two eoy. Only 60,000 points are offered if you buy one single eoy ( list price $33000) 

Also can some plese point me to the issue of whether this is a voluntery or a mandatory resort ( I have read the link on this in this forum) and how it would affact the purchase price of this resort as mentioned above. 

Many thanks for the continuous generosity of all members to help a newbie like us.

michael


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## pharmgirl (Apr 29, 2007)

puffpuff said:


> Thanks for all the help so far folks. Having slept on it overnight, it appears by the time I factor in a 5% interest on the purchase price  of $ 48500 equaling about $ 2000 a year, plus adding the MF of $2000  a year, I am in effect paying about $4000 for 7 nights stay in total or about $600 a night. Am I stinggy? As a value oriented person, I am not sure this purchase qulifies as a good value?
> 
> I think if you need to finance then this isn't a good deal for you.  For $4000/week you can rent some pretty nice places


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## DeniseM (Apr 29, 2007)

puffpuff said:


> Also can some plese point me to the issue of whether this is a voluntery or a mandatory resort ( I have read the link on this in this forum) and how it would affact the purchase price of this resort as mentioned above.



It is voluntary - if you sold it, the new owner could not trade in the Starwood system - they would only be able to use the week(s) they own.  This won't affect your usage, but compared to the mandatory resorts, other voluntary Starwood timeshares sell for much less on the resale market because of the lack of Staroptions.  So if you had to sell it - you can count on taking a loss of 50% or more.  If you finance it, this would mean that you probably wouldn't even be able to sell it for enought to pay off the loan. 

If you have any doubts, rescind and do some more research.  Did you know that Starwood is also building a timeshare at Poi'pu?

No matter what the salesman told you, this same deal will be available next week and next month, and later, if you decide you want it after doing more research.  But rescinding would allow you to make a decision without any pressure, and you would be able to do your homework and make sure you understand all your options.

I also agree that if you have to finance this, it isn't a good deal.  I see great deals on ebay every day for other Hawaii timeshares for less than $5K.  I just bought an ocean front unit for less than $2K.   

If you decide to rescind, follow the instructions in your purchase Doc's exactly and do it ASAP (Monday.)

Let us know how it turns out and best of luck!


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## DavidnRobin (Apr 29, 2007)

pharmgirl said:


> puffpuff said:
> 
> 
> > Thanks for all the help so far folks. Having slept on it overnight, it appears by the time I factor in a 5% interest on the purchase price  of $ 48500 equaling about $ 2000 a year, plus adding the MF of $2000  a year, I am in effect paying about $4000 for 7 nights stay in total or about $600 a night. Am I stinggy? As a value oriented person, I am not sure this purchase qulifies as a good value?
> ...


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## Fletcher921 (Apr 29, 2007)

Hey - go ahead and enjoy your week and have fabulous memories from being there - be it overpriced and/or financially unwise.

The memory is priceless.

Speaking from someone who has purchased from the developer also...


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## Denise L (Apr 29, 2007)

I'll chime in and say that if you love Kauai and the Starwood product, then enjoy your purchase! We bought developer at WKORV for $45K (two EOYs) and resales were at about $38K when they first appeared.  We figured for the difference at the time, we did okay (incentive points) and were able to use our week right away. We've enjoyed four great vacations and plan on using our week every year!

We researched on TUG for six weeks before buying, and still bought developer.  Now, it seems as if EOYs might be selling in the low $18K range, so that would make our two EOYs worth, say, $36K today (assuming we were patient).  So we still think that we did pretty good.

If you aren't in a hurry, resales will show up soon after opening.


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## stevens397 (Apr 29, 2007)

$600 per night might seem like a lot, but it's for a two bedroom suite!  Check out the prices for a single hotel room at the Princeville and it will seem like a bargain!


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## Westin5Star (Apr 29, 2007)

*Princeville Deal Offerred at WKV*

I just returned home today from WKV where they are selling WPORV.  They offered EY 2BR LO for $48.5k with approximately 300k points offerred this way (or something close to it): 150k starpoints incentive with 2008 usage, 80k explorer, 6500 owners update, 12k new amex, 48,500 amex purchase).  They said that the price was half that for EOY but I didn't get into the incentives on that deal.  I was also able to see some recent (from a few weeks ago) photos of the TS, walkway to the beach, and the beach itself.  It appears to be coming along nicely.  Good luck with you decision; Princeville looks like a great property.


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## chemteach (Apr 30, 2007)

You could also spend a few years renting units.  The WKORV 2 bedroon prime time units have been as low as $3500 recently on Redweek.  Most summer and spring break weeks are listed aroud $4500 to $5000, but that doesn't mean that people are getting that much for them.  

I may get lambasted for writing the following:

You could also purchase at a less expensive Starwood (or a mandatory resale) and hope to use staroptions to reserve at WPORV at the 8 month mark.  We have been able to reserve WKORV for both spring break and summer the past few years - but only 1 bedroom units or studios were available, no 2 bedrooms.   If a 2 bedroom is a necessity, you would probably have to purchase at WPROV directly.  The other issue with using Staroptions is that you have the lowest priority (after owners who reserved at 8 months or more and elite members) for the unit you get.

Good luck.  Spend some time reading past posts on here about Starwood.  You will learn a lot.


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## puffpuff (Apr 30, 2007)

My continued graditude to all who contributed to this most educational experience.  My wife and I have concluded taht like the quality,and are prepared to jump in based on a lifestyle "investement" . 

Since my first possible use is only in fall  2009 ( my 2007 and 2008 calender is already full,), do you all think that it is better for me to buy the 2 bedroom on eoy basis in late 2008 or 2209 and save fronting the 48,500 they wanted now. They only have 175 unit, and accoridng to the salesperson, first occupancy is actually in mid 2008 with some buildings ( not all) ready and they are already close "selling out" the 2008 occupancy , whatever that means.  At 5% opportunity cost, I figure I can afford for the units to go up by 2,500 per year developer price per year and get in later rather than earlier, privided taht the developer price does not increase more than 5% per year, I am still ok. Is that a reasonable assumption.  I have no idea on how fast or slow they raise the price. Is it worthwhile to wait ??  

Thanks to all again.

Michael.


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## myip (Apr 30, 2007)

puffpuff said:


> My continued graditude to all who contributed to this most educational experience.  My wife and I have concluded taht like the quality,and are prepared to jump in based on a lifestyle "investement" .
> 
> Since my first possible use is only in fall  2009 ( my 2007 and 2008 calender is already full,), do you all think that it is better for me to buy the 2 bedroom on eoy basis in late 2008 or 2209 and save fronting the 48,500 they wanted now. They only have 175 unit, and accoridng to the salesperson, first occupancy is actually in mid 2008 with some buildings ( not all) ready and they are already close "selling out" the 2008 occupancy , whatever that means.  At 5% opportunity cost, I figure I can afford for the units to go up by 2,500 per year developer price per year and get in later rather than earlier, privided taht the developer price does not increase more than 5% per year, I am still ok. Is that a reasonable assumption.  I have no idea on how fast or slow they raise the price. Is it worthwhile to wait ??
> 
> ...


If I am going to buy, I would buy and odd year usage 2009 now for $33K and have an option to buy the other half next year for the balance of the annual price.  If you buy developer, you should buy it early with a lock in price.  Otherwise, if you buy next year, the price will go up.


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## DavidnRobin (Apr 30, 2007)

puffpuff said:


> My continued graditude to all who contributed to this most educational experience.  My wife and I have concluded taht like the quality,and are prepared to jump in based on a lifestyle "investement" .
> 
> Since my first possible use is only in fall  2009 ( my 2007 and 2008 calender is already full,), do you all think that it is better for me to buy the 2 bedroom on eoy basis in late 2008 or 2209 and save fronting the 48,500 they wanted now. They only have 175 unit, and accoridng to the salesperson, first occupancy is actually in mid 2008 with some buildings ( not all) ready and they are already close "selling out" the 2008 occupancy , whatever that means.  At 5% opportunity cost, I figure I can afford for the units to go up by 2,500 per year developer price per year and get in later rather than earlier, privided taht the developer price does not increase more than 5% per year, I am still ok. Is that a reasonable assumption.  I have no idea on how fast or slow they raise the price. Is it worthwhile to wait ??
> 
> ...


If you can find the thread on our WPORV buying adventure while we were at WKV (around Mar22) - you will notive that we bought an EOY odd (because we couldn't start our use until 2009 either) - they balked - we started to leave - they reconsidered - and we bought for 50% of EY.

If you want to get deeper into the SVO abyss (and can) - then consider buying resale at WKV (at least 81K SOs) and then buy the WPORV - and have the WKV requalified into the SVO system (warning: this is an advanced SVO TS play - make sure you do your DD and proceed with caution)


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## DeniseM (Apr 30, 2007)

Michael - I am going to take one more shot at this.  

Are you completely comfortable with the fact that this resort may lose 50% or more of it's resale value because it isn't SVN mandatory?

We also bought from the developer (before TUG) and the WKORV unit we paid $45K for is now selling on the resale market for just under $30K - and it's a mandatory resort!     If we had known then, what we know now, we would have bought resale.

If you finance it, and your financial situation changes, (family illness, another baby, loss of job, company closes, etc.) you may not be able to sell it for enough to pay off the loan.  

That would put you in the miserable position of selling it for less than you owe to get rid of the maintenance fees, and then continuing to pay off the balance of the loan, even though you no longer own the property.  If your  fianacial situation is such that you could absorb a loss like this with no problem, maybe it's no big deal, but if not, you should think twice.  

This resort is the first new non-mandatory resort, and we just don't know what the resale value is going to do.  There is no way I would finance a big question mark like this.

Best of luck


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## DavidnRobin (Apr 30, 2007)

I totally agree with DeniseM (I missed the part about financing) - under most circumstances (e.g. moving money around to get SPs, or getting a lower rate than your investments are paying) - DO NOT finance your TS - these are luxury items and should be paid for in full.

As for WPORV - it may manage to beat the V trend because unlike WKORV - there will be limited units AND it's location is very unique, but time will tell.  For now we assume our EOY will drop up to $10K - and if not - we will be happy.


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## DeniseM (Apr 30, 2007)

DavidnRobin said:


> DO NOT finance your TS - these are luxury items and should be paid for in full.



Exactly!  And there are lots of great deals on Hawaii timeshares on the resale market that you wouldn't have to finance!


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## vacationtime1 (Apr 30, 2007)

I don't think OP was planning to finance this purchase; his post #7 talks about 5% interest rate in the context of an opportunity cost on his capital.

Even so, I agree with DeniseM and DavidnRobin in that the purchase of a voluntary property is fraught with economic uncertainty.  OP's analysis of the $600+ per night cost for Princeville is on the money -- and that analysis does not include the depreciation on the purchase price.  

My first Starwood purchase was a Kierland resale (which I have exchanged into Maui for this summer).


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## DavidnRobin (Apr 30, 2007)

vacationtime1 said:


> I don't think OP was planning to finance this purchase; his post #7 talks about 5% interest rate in the context of an opportunity cost on his capital.
> 
> Even so, I agree with DeniseM and DavidnRobin in that the purchase of a voluntary property is fraught with economic uncertainty.  OP's analysis of the $600+ per night cost for Princeville is on the money -- and that analysis does not include the depreciation on the purchase price.
> 
> My first Starwood purchase was a Kierland resale (which I have exchanged into Maui for this summer).



Got it - however, in relation to that ~$600 per nite - that is for 2 stand-alone units (Lock-off) - of course w/o depreciation with is an intangible since that amount is unknown and for how many years that amount is depreciated over.

There are only ~180 TS units at WPORV - WKORV and WKORV-N have many many more units than this to exchange into, and some with very poor 'views' - whereas, WPORV all have 1-class of units with the difference between the best and worst location likely much smaller.


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## duke (Apr 30, 2007)

myip said:


> If I am going to buy, I would buy and odd year usage 2009 now for $33K and have an option to buy the other half next year for the balance of the annual price.  If you buy developer, you should buy it early with a lock in price.  Otherwise, if you buy next year, the price will go up.



Note:  If you buy ODD year then 1/2 the maint fee will be due the year before your year of use.  Maint fees are paid 1/2 every year and they charge the EOY fee the year prior to your year of use.

Also, if they will sell you an EOY (they did for DavidandRobin at Kierland for Princeville purchase) for 1/2 the EY price then that is a better deal.


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## Westin5Star (Apr 30, 2007)

duke said:


> Note:  If you buy ODD year then 1/2 the maint fee will be due the year before your year of use.  Maint fees are paid 1/2 every year and they charge the EOY fee the year prior to your year of use.
> 
> Also, if they will sell you an EOY (they did for DavidandRobin at Kierland for Princeville purchase) for 1/2 the EY price then that is a better deal.



I was also offerred 1/2 the EY price for an EOY year this week at WKV for WPORV.  This maybe because we are already Starwood owners that we were offerred better EOY pricing???


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## DavidnRobin (Apr 30, 2007)

Westin5Star said:


> I was also offerred 1/2 the EY price for an EOY year this week at WKV for WPORV.  This maybe because we are already Starwood owners that we were offerred better EOY pricing???


You would think that - but if you go back and look at what I wrote about my experience (and responses from others) - I was not an official SVO owner as I only owned resale up to that point - and someone mentioned this was a mistake on their part that could nullify the sale - good luck with that...


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## puffpuff (Apr 30, 2007)

I talked to the salespeople and the official rule is that they offer to existing Starwood owners that own units bought direclty from developers a 50% discount off a whole unit, and thus the price is 24,500 for a eoy unit. This privilage is not extended to holders of units purchased in the resale market. Since I am not a current owner per their definition, I am not entitled and thus if I were to buy a single eoy, it would cost 33,000 at today's pricing with 1000000 incentive points.

Congraduations to DAvid and Robin for pulling it thru.


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## puffpuff (May 1, 2007)

correction - eoy is 33000 with 60,000 points.


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## DavidnRobin (May 1, 2007)

puffpuff said:


> I talked to the salespeople and the official rule is that they offer to existing Starwood owners that own units bought direclty from developers a 50% discount off a whole unit, and thus the price is 24,500 for a eoy unit. This privilage is not extended to holders of units purchased in the resale market. Since I am not a current owner per their definition, I am not entitled and thus if I were to buy a single eoy, it would cost 33,000 at today's pricing with 1000000 incentive points.
> 
> Congraduations to DAvid and Robin for pulling it thru.



It hasn't gone thru yet - they could still nullify it I guess - if they do it would be against the signed contract (along with the many associated docs for the requal) - so they could give me my $ back I guess (nothing lost) - they certainly can't ask me the ante up the rest of the $.  They did make it clear that I am not necessarily eligible to get the other EOY (even) for 50% - so they were aware.

In reality - I think (my belief - no proof) that it came down to the VOI (resort unit-type week) I was requalifying (WKORV OFD) - the rest of our SVO portfolio , and the situation (for them) at the time.

If I were doing it with a non-prime VOI without the rest of the potential requal SVO VOI (which can translate to potential sales for them), the outcome may have been different.  And perhaps they knew it was deal/no deal - we already had 3 great VOIs and no more additional vacation time until 2009 and beyond.


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## duke (May 1, 2007)

DavidnRobin said:


> It hasn't gone thru yet - they could still nullify it I guess




David;

Either you are breaking the rules or breaking new ground.  All of the terms included in your deal are against SVO policy.

--Requalify a resale EY with a developer EOY
--Price of an EOY is 50% of EY for SVO purchasers 
--Use Explorer package for same day developer purchase

SO, we are all waiting to see what happens......

duke


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## Transit (May 1, 2007)

Loose lips sinks ships


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## DavidnRobin (May 1, 2007)

Transit said:


> Loose lips sinks ships


Really - thanks for bringing it up.

I can see it now - SVO Corp is reading TUG, then sees this thread - and decides to cancel the contract - and gives me my money back and I return the incentive SPs, and I am no longer 3* Elite, nor is my WKORV OFD requaled.

Or... send thugs after me insisting that I pay more than the contact agrees to... :rofl:

MyStarCentral has me listed as a WPORv EOY (odd) owner - the WPORV welcome team has contacted me - SVO has the contact listed with my name listed in their system.

Let them back-out - I don't care - I don't need WPORV nor 3* Elite status (the SP incentives were nice though)


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## duke (May 1, 2007)

Transit said:


> Loose lips sinks ships



Would you like me to remove my post?
duke


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## chemteach (May 2, 2007)

DavidnRobin said:


> Really - thanks for bringing it up.
> 
> I can see it now - SVO Corp is reading TUG, then sees this thread - and decides to cancel the contract - and gives me my money back and I return the incentive SPs, and I am no longer 3* Elite, nor is my WKORV OFD requaled.
> 
> ...


DnR  The loose lips sink ships quote is probably not so much about what would happen to you, but what could happen to anyone trying to do what you are doing.  Unfortunately, there have been some wonderful timeshare opportunities in the past that have gone by the wayside because people have posted on TUG, and then many people tried to do similar things to what a poster had done, and then sooner or later, the loophole was gone.


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## rickandcindy23 (May 2, 2007)

Salespeople and developers DO read TUG.  Salespeople have told me they read TUG all the time.  They don't post, but they do read and know what we say here.  So does RCI and II.  LOOSE LIPS TEND TO SINK SHIPS.


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## jerseygirl (May 2, 2007)

Until about 3 years ago, Stawood allowed you to bring all your resale purchases in with one EOY silver purchase ....


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## Westin5Star (May 2, 2007)

duke said:


> David;
> 
> Either you are breaking the rules or breaking new ground.  All of the terms included in your deal are against SVO policy.
> 
> ...



I was also just offerred same day developer purchase using Explorer package last week at WKV.  Maybe Starwood is becoming more flexible on this policy?


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## DavidnRobin (May 2, 2007)

chemteach said:


> DnR  The loose lips sink ships quote is probably not so much about what would happen to you, but what could happen to anyone trying to do what you are doing.  Unfortunately, there have been some wonderful timeshare opportunities in the past that have gone by the wayside because people have posted on TUG, and then many people tried to do similar things to what a poster had done, and then sooner or later, the loophole was gone.



If I knew that was an issue - then I guess I shouldn't have posted my story about this...  if so, then maybe the post(s) should be removed...

on the plus side - I think SVO has to only gain from these types of deals by promoting SVO sales - because... they sell a VOI (their objective) for a very high price, and they requaled a unit that only impacts them in a positive way by getting an owner of the Elite track that potentially sells even more VOIs (again, their objective).

as I wrote - this was a negiotiation that both parties walked away feeling good about - on my side - anything less, and I would have walked away - they knew this and likely figured it was still a positive outcome for us to agree - maybe not as positive as they would have liked, but a gain is a gain (especially if there is are intra-resort sales goals that they are trying to achieve - as evidenced by those trophies on their shelves)

I think they look at each individual situation and make a call (right or wrong) that suits them based on their situation.  They may not have done this if we were buying anotgher resort - or trying to requal another unit.  They made it clear that this deal may be a one-time offer, and for us - visa-versa.

Overall - for SVO - very few buyers (%-wise) even know about or find TUG.  For those lucky few that have found TUG (they knew that I knew about resales, requals, ExpPkg, costs - and likely TUG) - this is a conduit for potential sales for buyers who already own SVO resales. Plus, they knew we loved the SVO system and SVO resorts as evidenced by the resorts we owned.

TUG exists - resales exists - they know this - and they are not going away.  It is better to look forward to potential money to be made - than to look at past money lost (because those dollars don't exist anymore) - a Poker adage would go good here...

So if anyone from SVO is lurking - this is a win/win situation and you should welcome it.


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## Transit (May 2, 2007)

I hope that the breifness of my post "loose lips sinks ships" dosen't seem over critical of other's posts that wasn't my intention  it was just ment as a reminder posts can affect pending issues/policy weather good or bad .Duke has practicly wrote the book here on Starwood requals and Davidnrobins shared expirences are extremely informative.


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## DavidnRobin (May 2, 2007)

Transit said:


> I hope that the breifness of my post "loose lips sinks ships" dosen't seem over critical of other's posts that wasn't my intention  it was just ment as a reminder posts can affect pending issues/policy weather good or bad .Duke has practicly wrote the book here on Starwood requals and Davidnrobins shared expirences are extremely informative.



I did not take it as such - but it brings up a good point - how are Tuggers suppose to share key info (e.g. requal, recent deals, etc.) on a public forum without the potential for SVO (in this case) seeing them?

I would hope that SVO would take more interest in reading TUG because there are so many improvements to be made with the SVO system, V and M resorts, SVN reservations, resort issues - the info from TUG could be of extreme value if a SVO representative empowered to make changes were to pay attention to threads here (well, some of them)- heck, they could even chime in on the surreal discussion on whether or not inventories of units are held for non-SVN members of V resorts for owners who decide to wait until 60-days to make their reservations.

This type of info and feedback is invaluable to a business - and this type of market research usually costs lots of money (and often not based in reality). Reality is right here on TUG.

I wish SVO would read TUG because the first thing I would say is that they need to trash their owner/reservation database - and revamp it entirely - when dealing with SVO reservations - I feel as if I am dealing with a person using a software program from the early-90s.


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## jerseygirl (May 2, 2007)

Oh ... they read TUG.  I used to correspond via email with someone from management.  References to TUG postings were made more than once.  The same person even asked me about an ebay purchase I made -- that was a little spooky (and prompted me to change my ebay name!!).  

They love the publicity they're getting about requals -- it's selling units for them!  

Duke -- they probably owe you about a million referral points!


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## duke (May 2, 2007)

jerseygirl said:


> They love the publicity they're getting about requals -- it's selling units for them!
> 
> Duke -- they probably owe you about a million referral points!



COOL!

duke


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## DavidnRobin (May 8, 2007)

duke said:


> David;
> 
> Either you are breaking the rules or breaking new ground.  All of the terms included in your deal are against SVO policy.
> 
> ...



We got our 100K incentive SPs credited to my SPG account.  Still waiting for the ExpPkg SPs.


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## reddiablosv (May 9, 2007)

puffpuff said:


> Just completed a sales presentation of the Princeville 178 unit 2 bedroom /lockoff 1350 sq feet ( MF $2000) per year. Partial completion and open for occupancy in mid 2008, with full completion by Jan 2009. All ocean view units, floating 1-50.
> 
> My wife and I just love Kauai and this is the island we want to buy. Would appreciate any one with information on whether this is a good purchase at this time from developer. We are interested in eoy and instead of buying a eoy for liste pricce of $33000, developer is allowing us to buy one annual week at $ 48500 and split into two deeds, each eoy, effectively paying $24250 each , which seems to be discount to the$33000 on face value. Based on what I see at wkorv-n, a resale eoy seems to be running at about 19000k while annual of similar size ( 2 bedromm lock out) whole units at 30,000 resale.
> 
> ...




Michael, I apologize upfront as I am going to admit that I have not read all of the replies to your post.  But,  I am a starwood owner of a mandatory resort (VV) and I own a penthouse unit at the Shearwater which I have perverse pleasure in telling you has a far superior view than anything you will have at the Westin!    My total cost for both annual weeks, two bedrooms, on ebay , resale was 18K !!!  My annual MF is about the same as yours.  I own at VV prime season 2 bedroom  and Pahio  Shearwater.     I think you should think long and hard before you purchase.   Ben


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## califgal (May 9, 2007)

Because of the last post I just had to look up pictures of Pahio Shearwater.  While the views look gorgeous and the units are spacious, they are also dated on the interiors and have no air conditioning and a small pool.  So, ...there's something for eveyone out there, and different tastes make the world go round!


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## reddiablosv (May 9, 2007)

califgal said:


> Because of the last post I just had to look up pictures of Pahio Shearwater.  While the views look gorgeous and the units are spacious, they are also dated on the interiors and have no air conditioning and a small pool.  So, ...there's something for eveyone out there, and different tastes make the world go round!



While I have not stayed in the Westin Kauai units, nor has anyone, I have stayed in the Atlantis and Westin Kaanapaali units.   The Shearwater penthouse units are superior, with 20 vaulted ceilings, fantastic views, spacious interiors.  The resort is smaller, but don't knock the accomodations, remember, I am an owner at both resorts!!  Ben


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## califgal (May 9, 2007)

I'm not knocking anything and yes i know you own at both.  I will assume that this was not your intention but you made it sound like the Westin Princeville was a lousy choice for the person and only your Shearwater is the most fabulous place.  My point is that everyone has different taste.


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## DavidnRobin (May 9, 2007)

Here's an idea.  How about starting another thread about how SP is superior to a resort (Westin Princeville - the title of this thread) that isn't opening until 2008?


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## califgal (May 9, 2007)

Good one David!!  You gotta have sense of humor about all this stuff!:rofl:


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## formerhater (May 9, 2007)

My ceiling is bigger than yours...nana nana naaaa na.

No need to get in a urination contest over who's timeshare is better or whose ceilings are higher, perverse pleasure or not.  As far as I'm concerned, if you're happy where you own (no matter where you own or how much you paid), nothing else matters.


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## stanh (May 9, 2007)

We own a unit at the Cliffs nearby.  My impression is that the prices are much lower.  It's not quite as ritzy, but it ain't half bad.


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## DavidnRobin (May 27, 2007)

duke said:


> David;
> 
> Either you are breaking the rules or breaking new ground.  All of the terms included in your deal are against SVO policy.
> 
> ...



We got our ExpPkg 80K SPs in my SPG account from our WPORV purchase - so other than receiving the WPORV deed (it is in our MSC account with our other VOIs) - all aspects our requal deal worked out with no issues as discussed in the thread...

http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=43598

I promised that I would report.  SVO did everything as promised without problems.  The sales staff at WKV really were great and knew how pull this deal together.

So were able to break rules/policy... or new ground.

btw - the bees have still not shown up around the Brazilian Pepper tree our backyard...


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## duke (May 27, 2007)

DavidnRobin said:


> So were able to break rules/policy... or new ground...



David:

CONGRATS!!!!!

Now, there is an even better and less expensive way to do a requalification.

duke


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## DavidnRobin (May 27, 2007)

duke said:


> David:
> 
> CONGRATS!!!!!
> 
> ...



Ours wasn't an inexpensive way - but we do have some really great TSs (2 weeks that we could sell for more than we paid), and the sweet OF WKORV which (although at a hefty premium) may be one of the last of it's kind.

We are not going to make anymore TS purchases (honest!) *unless *a real bargain shows up at WKV, or if the owner of WSJ week 23 (that sold us their week 24) decides to sell their week to us.

Perhaps requal again in '09/'10 (if they still exist then) with an EOY SVO purchase - maybe Poipu? WPORV EOY-even will likely be sold out by then (unfortunately) and we just don't have the vacation weeks to make 4*/5* worth it for now although we are still sitting on 148.1K resale SOs.

Thanks for your (and Negma's) input and process for requalifucation - we now have ~300K SPs for our 2009 vacation - hopefully SPG won't devalue SPs anymore (unlikely).

Send bees - please...


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## Denise L (May 27, 2007)

DavidnRobin said:


> We got our ExpPkg 80K SPs in my SPG account from our WPORV purchase - so other than receiving the WPORV deed (it is in our MSC account with our other VOIs) - all aspects our requal deal worked out with no issues as discussed in the thread...
> 
> http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=43598
> 
> ...



I really have been following your saga, David  . Great job!  Can you explain to me how you paid $99 for 80K Starpoints? I think I understand that you paid $1995 for the Explorer Package. This cost was credited to your purchase, right? And then you got 50K Starpoints out of it, and then you paid them $99 for not using your 5 nights and trading them for 30K Starpoints?


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## DavidnRobin (May 27, 2007)

Denise L said:


> I really have been following your saga, David  . Great job!  Can you explain to me how you paid $99 for 80K Starpoints? I think I understand that you paid $1995 for the Explorer Package. This cost was credited to your purchase, right? And then you got 50K Starpoints out of it, and then you paid them $99 for not using your 5 nights and trading them for 30K Starpoints?



It was using the ExpPkg deposit ($1999) towards the purchase - and 80K SPs as the incentive if used.  If we didn't use it - it was 5 nites at WKV and 50K SPs for $1999+$99.  The fee was $99.  So it was like getting and additional 80K SPs for $99 on top of the 100K SPs for the purchase.  Plus, we put everything on my SPG AMEX, and Robin got a AMEX SPG card for 14K SPs.


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## Transit (May 27, 2007)

Congrats to David and Robin I'm glad it all worked out well!!!


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## bruwery (May 29, 2007)

If the OP can't vacation at Kauai until 2009 anyway, why not wait and buy it resale next year?


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