# Looking to buy Resale [Wyndham]



## smithinc49 (Jan 10, 2010)

I posted late last night stating that I bought from a dealer.  We're sending our certified return receipt letter to back out!!!  I obviously have a lot to learn on this website and am reading many posts.

My wife and I are still very much interested in the Wyndham points TS.  We want to know if we buy a resale off of ebay will we be essentially getting the same points program as recently pitched to us by the dealer?

1.  Can we use the points we purchase in a resale at any other wyndham location, even if the deeded property is a specific location?  (I believe points are points and can be used anywhere in the network, correct me if I am wrong)

2.  The biggest pitch they had during their presentation was being able to search the RCI network for free, find a TS, book it, transfer the points, and walk away with a nice TS for $19/night.  They said there were numerous TS's available on last call for 28k wyndham points.  Can we still do this on resale?  If not what is the difference by having resale.

3.  Can we still get the wyndham rewards perks that was pitched to us that is theoretically used to pay down MF's?

4.  We are also big cruisers(at least one big cruise per year), they pitched to us through one of the programs that we could get cheap last calls.  Can we still obtain this buying wyndham points in resale?  Or is this just an RCI benefit or a Wyndham perks benefit?

5.  They also pitched that we could use points for airfare and car rentals, I'm not sure how that worked, but is that possible by resale as well?  If so, how?  What program?

6.  Do all Wyndham points TS's include RCI memberships to obtain last calls and tradable credits?

7.  We want the TRUE ability of taking 3 weekend trips (2-3 nights), and at least one week long vacation.  Maybe even during peak seasons for the week long.  How many points would we honestly need?


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## smithinc49 (Jan 10, 2010)

Another Question, if our hands are not tied to Wyndham, should we look for another points system?


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## janej (Jan 10, 2010)

For Wyndham points, start with the FAQ at the http://www.wyndhamowners.org/


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## Bill4728 (Jan 10, 2010)

A couple of things:
- If you buy direct from Wyndham, you'll pay about 20 time more than resale (YES I said 20 times more) 

- If you buy direct from Wyn you'll get access to RCI points through PlusPartners ( Which can be used for car rentals & airfare but is a bad deal for most people) BUT buyer of reale wyn pts get access to RCI weeks only. (PlusPartners is not a real RCI points account but pretty close)

-There are many people out there who own wyndham but are not in wyn pts, so you must be carefull when you're looking to find a deal which is already in Wyn pts if that what you want.

Good Luck


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## BellaWyn (Jan 10, 2010)

*Wyndham RCI Weeks vs Points*



Bill4728 said:


> If you buy direct from Wyn you'll get access to RCI points ( Which can be used for car rentals & airfare but is a bad deal for most people) BUT buyer of resale wyn pts get access to RCI weeks only.



I think this is in error.  Wyndham pays for RCI membership in the WEEKS system only.  Not RCI Points.

#1. Yes you can use UDI points at other locations in the Wyndham system. 
#2. Yes you can get a full week stay using a 28K deposit into RCI (will not get you a prime week).  
#3. Wyndham Rewards are not an economical use of points. 
#4. Cruising using Wyndham points is not an economical use of points and you will NOT get a cruise with 154K points!  More like 600K - 800K.  However, if you purchased that many resale points, you would still be able to use them for Wyndham cruises.  You have to book 60+ days in advance which will NOT get you last minute cruise discounts.  
#5. Plus Partners is the program that gets you cruises, airfare, car rental etc using points.  Again, NOT an economical use of points!  You can buy direct less expensively.
#6. Potentially.  Resale you purchase your own RCI membership.  Retail Wyn buys the membership for you.
#7.  I would go with at least 308K to start off if you want 2-3 short stays and a full 1-week.  You'll be able to stretch that by putting small point deposits into RCI to get weeks trades (in off seasons).

When you link to the Wyndham Owners Forum or
http://forums.atozed.com/  make sure you read the PRIMER!  Find a resale that has LOW MF's!  AC has almost the highest in the system!  The above link will have a schedule of all MF's in the system that will help you make a decision on a resale purchase.  

They are a little more formal so you have to register and sign you name to your posts but the information over there is REALLY GOOD!  

Welcome to TUG!  There are terrific resources here!


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## dwmantz (Jan 10, 2010)

#2 above can be wrong when it comes to getting back into the Wyndham system.

I have gotten back into my home Wyndham resort in totally prime HOLIDAY weeks, in a 2BR unit, with 28K deposits - twice in one year (CMAS 2010 to be specific).  What would have been 189,000 Wyndham points was traded for 28K via RCI - twice!


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## zazz (Jan 10, 2010)

I just jumped into some resale points last year.  I am still learning the system a bit but here is my experience.

1.  Yes, my points are based in San Antonio, but I have been to Vegas, Newport RI and Williamsburg.

2.  I can use RCI and even with a 28K deposit.  I have still been trying to sort out exactly what I will get, but don't believe that a 28K will get you into Paris or the Manhattan Club.  I have the same 28K availability as someone who bought direct.

3.  Its not worth it.  You will lose money doing this.

4.  RCI Cruise prices aren't any better than hitting some of the cruise discounters.  Not worth it developer points or otherwise.

5.  I think as resale you have to buy into this as opposed to getting it free from the developer.  But its not worth it.

6.  Yep.  My annual fees include an RCI membership with access to Last Call.

7.  Depends where you want to go.  I am a weekend traveler myself.  We used our 154K 2009 points to book 4 nights over New Years in Vegas, four nights in the spring in Newport and 2 nights over Memorial Day in Williamsburg.  I had enough left over to make a 28K deposit in RCI.  Some of the peak weeks are tough, but I think they would be just as tough with developer points.  Newport, for instance is owned largely as fixed weeks in summer.  So if a fixed week owner wants to use his week, then no points will get you in that unit.

As a resale buyer, you will get nickel and dimed a bit.  If you make a lot of reservation transactions, you might end up paying $30-$60 more to do lots of small trips.  Housekeeping credits could add another $100 or so over resale.  However, think about how many housekeeping credits you need to pay for before you get to the $20,000-$30,000 that the Wyndham slugs want you pay.

I paid $1,200 for my package at the end of 2007.  I am certain that you would probably pay less for that same package today.  The people who were the original buyers paid $20,649 for it.

I think if you buy 300K developer points, you get VIP which means you can have upgrades at some of the resorts.  Maybe that's worth something to some people.  When I checked into Vegas over NYE, they gave me a high floor with a strip view.  I'll take that.


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## bnoble (Jan 10, 2010)

> Wyndham pays for RCI membership in the WEEKS system only. Not RCI Points


If you are enrolled in PlusPartners, you can obtain access to RCI Points inventory.  It's not a Points account, and there is a fixed crossover grid converting Wyndham points to RCI Points Reservations based on size and season of unit (but ignoring location/resort differences).  This can be very advantageous when exchanging into properties with high RCI Point values.  

Those who have a purchase (any purchase) from the developer are enrolled in PlusPartners, and reportedly you can also enroll a resale-only account for a fee---though I've not read any reports of folks doing it recently.

As for exchanging via RCI---things got a little tighter when RCI Weeks did their global re-valuation on 5/30/09.  So, experiences of confirmed exchanges prior to 5/30 may not be indicative of what's possible going forward.


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## randyz (Jan 10, 2010)

All resale UDI points are identical to retail points, except they don't count towards VIP status. Points are points except that any points you own at a location can be used for ARP (advanced reservation priority) at 13 months instead of the usual 10 month booking period. If your planning to use a property at peak periods this can be an advantage. Your maintenance fees will also vary depending where you own.

If purchasing resale watch for fixed week conversions, these are not UDI, and that ARP applies only to the underlying fixed week (not float).

RCI membership is included.

As already mentioned conversion to car rental, cruises, etc. is not a good value.

To answer your question as to how many points, that really depends where you want to go and how big a room (1 bdr to 4 bdr are available depending on location).  A 2 bedroom week in Edisto Island is approx 154,000 point prime time. The same thing in Honolulu is 500,000 during Christmas week. So give me some idea where you want to travel and I can give you an idea how many points to get.

I believe you get one free reservation transaction for every 77K owned. So 230,000 pts would get you 3 bookings per year at no additional charge. Generally, if you have the free reservation transactions the housekeeping credits are adequate.

Hope that helps, Randy


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## ronandjoan (Jan 11, 2010)

I am finding that there is so much misunderstanding about Wyndham points due to the salespeople downgrading resale purchases so much...people saying they are second class citizens because they can't use their points, they can;t do this or that unless theyare VIP -- so many scare tactics.

The good news is that:
Points are points are points are points

and as long as you have Wyndham points rather than fixed weeks, you can use them.  

But maybe our purchases should come with a warning:  the learning curve can be long for learning how to maximize your point usage.

Good for you for asking questions, and the links suggested are the best to get more info - the Yahoo groups are great.


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## smithinc49 (Jan 11, 2010)

I'd like to think I'm a quick learner and that I can figure it all out.

We have no kids, so a one or two bedroom is best for us.  We understand peak vs non-peak seasons make a big difference.  My wife is a teacher and she pretty much takes off one week per year during the school year for a big vacation.  I guess I'm trying to say we would avoid peak seasons, but might be stuck doing moderate season rates.

We love warm weather and mainly would like to visit Florida, California, South Carolina, Caribbean, Vegas, and maybe a ski resort for week long vacations.

Other weekend vacations would be to Atlantic City and Poconos.  We're East Coast.  My inclination is that 300k points might work.  Just a guess only reading a little of the boards.

P.S.  Wife is on her way to the post office to rescind as I type this.  Sending two, just in case.


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## massvacationer (Jan 11, 2010)

There may be an argument to buy less than the 300k resale points that you are contemplating (others please chime in here).

It might make sense to buy less - say 189K or 203K, use the system for a year or two and see how it goes.   You may find that 200k points per year covers your timeshare vacation needs.  For example, you may wish to also vacation at cottage rentals or hotels, so around 200K may be enough.  The thing is, once you own them, they are relatively hard to get rid off, so it may better to be conservative.  And, If you find you need more, fork over another 800 bucks for another points package.

Anyway, this really is driven by your available vacation time, budgets, travel seasons, unit sizes, and travel desires - everone's is different.


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## zazz (Jan 11, 2010)

You'll figure it out.  You're in the same neck of the woods as I am so maybe we can share intelligence on local resorts as you get into the system.  The one thing I will tell you is that using the points for AC can be a little pricey unless you go for holiday weeks in the summer.  You may be able to use 28K deposits as well to trade into an AC week.  Every time I look at the reservation system, there never appears to be a problem with availability in AC.

Since you don't have kids, going for studios (where available) and one bedrooms will save you a ton in housekeeping credits.  And they can add up.  But if you are smart, it seems like it can be worth your while.

If you plan to travel to the resorts a lot, then 300K might suit you.  My 154K gets me where I want to go, especially with the weekenders. 

The important thing about buying is to look for cheap maintenance fees.  The other thing is not to get into a bidding war.  Decide what you want to pay for a package and stick to that.  If you miss out on one sale, another one will be right around the corner.  

Good job in rescinding.


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## vacationhopeful (Jan 11, 2010)

308,000 Pts gets you 4 reservation transactions.


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## YeongWoo (Jan 11, 2010)

*Look at several TS systems*



smithinc49 said:


> Another Question, if our hands are not tied to Wyndham, should we look for another points system?



There are several other systems and I'd look at the resorts in the locations that you want to go.  The number one rule is to buy where you want to go.  Actually, that's number two, number 1 is always buy resale.  

Anyway, I don't know the other systems that well because Wyndham works for us but if I was going to look at another system it would be Blue Green.  Most of the other systems are geared heavily towards weeks stays.  From what I understand BG's system seems a little better for someone wanting more short stays.  

Regardless, unlike the decision to rescind that contract this is a decision that you can take your time with...


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## randyz (Jan 13, 2010)

smithinc49 said:


> I'd like to think I'm a quick learner and that I can figure it all out.
> 
> We have no kids, so a one or two bedroom is best for us.  We understand peak vs non-peak seasons make a big difference.  My wife is a teacher and she pretty much takes off one week per year during the school year for a big vacation.  I guess I'm trying to say we would avoid peak seasons, but might be stuck doing moderate season rates.
> 
> ...



In my opinion the Wyndham system works the best for east coasters (westerner here). Here are some points examples for you. I have been to 8 different locations that I can recall. And all have been great. Sure Bonnet Creek, Vegas, Hawaii are a cut above, but they do cost more in points.

These are points for prime per night, one bedroom deluxe, Sunday-Thur, and Fri-Sat

Atlantic City     18,000     32,000
Vegas     18,000     32,000
SC Edisto Island     15,000     25,500
SC Myrtle Beach, Ocean Boulevard   27,000     44,500  
Daytona Beach     17,000     27,500 
Orlando, Bonnet Creek     20,000     33,000
Oceanside CA     24,000     41,500
Ft Lauderdale, Royal Vista     18,000     32,000
Royal Sea Cliff Kona     24,000     41,500
Sedona, AZ      15,000    25,500
Tahoe     28,000     49,000

That should give you some idea. Those are of course highest prime rates. The highest in the system are probably are Waikiki, Kauai, Panama Beach, San Francisco.

Hope that helps.  Randy


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## BellaWyn (Jan 13, 2010)

*Wyndham School @ TUG2.net!*



smithinc49 said:


> I'd like to think I'm a quick learner and that I can figure it all out.


Smith:
You'll find that TUG & WOF are both good resources to help you in this process.  I feel similar about my own learning curve but have found there is always new information to be gleaned as TS is a fairly dynamic industry. Much of the information shared in both forums is both empirical and anecdotal.

This TUG thread has good information on other resale purchase sources beyond eBay.  

As you continue your information gathering, be aware that Wyndham has an Online Directory that provides detailed information on each resort.  Additionally it has descriptions of the various programs and fee structures that you might find useful.  The information could help you determine a comfortable point volume that will work best for your situation.

As you consider other point-based systems, WorldMark seems to have quite a few very satisfied members and has a reputation for being a quality trader in RCI. I'm not a WorldMark owner but thus far have never personally encountered a dissatisfied owner.

Good luck!


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## BellaWyn (Jan 13, 2010)

*High Point Resorts*



randyz said:


> The highest in the system are probably are Waikiki, Kauai, Panama Beach, San Francisco.



.... and any Presidential or hotel-based location as they continue to add them (i.e. National Harbor, King Cotton, etc).


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## smithinc49 (Jan 13, 2010)

Ok, I started reading the primer on the wynham board.  Very interesting thus far.  I'm still thinking that I am going to get one.  As of right now my plan is to get 154 or 231k points.  I'm shopping for the lowest maintenance fees location right now.  A couple more questions:

1.  How limited are the timeshares when booking?  Do places actually get fully booked up in prime season?  Will I be able to book a room within 60 days?

2.  More specifically are poconos and atlantic city popular to the point that if I want to do a weekend will I have to plan it out months ahead of time?

3.  I think I've read that points expire after each year.  However for a fee I can transfer them into RCI.  Using RCI points I can still book wyndham resorts right?

4.  My points in RCI would not expire for 3 years?  So in theory I could bank points here at the end of each year and save up for a real nice place right?

5.  Assuming I had enough points, in Wyndham points, could I use them on a presidential room?  Or, do I need to be enrolled in some special presidential membership.  I think read something that implied that in the material that Wyndham gave me.

6.  If I can't book presidential suites through wyndham with wyndham points, could I with banked RCI points?


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## bnoble (Jan 13, 2010)

I would not recommend a Wyndahm purchase if you want to travel during peak seasons, but cannot plan more than several months in advance.


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## ronandjoan (Jan 13, 2010)

As a teacher myself, yes, I managed to figure out the FF/Wyn system too, and it looks like you are getting a good handle on it already.

    First, I will say that we absolutely love Wyndham despite the changes when they changed their name (HA!)  because of the flexibility, the many resorts available, and the upkeep and decor.  We have been to HGVC at South Beach and Eagle’s Nest and did not find that quality – although some think Wyndham’s quality has deteriorated, we haven’t.  The housekeeping has been so much better than many other resorts we go to and we know we will always get a nice place at a Wyn resorts and we have.

    Although there are only two of us also, like you, we do not usually want to stay too many days in a studio unit…so we agree that we like 1 or 2 bedrooms, despite the extra cost (in points).  If we are using the resort as a stop over motel stay, the studio or small 1 BD suites are fine for a couple of days and that is what we really like:  the flexibility of doing that!  Especially after we have a busy week’s stay!  

>>1. How limited are the timeshares when booking? Do places actually get fully booked up in prime season? Will I be able to book a room within 60 days?

You can book a lot of resorts within 60 days and there are 25% reductions listed on the web for anyone (not just VIP’s) with  last minute availability.  E.g. even Bonnet Creek is available now within 60 days!

>>2. More specifically are poconos and atlantic city popular to the point that if I want to do a weekend will I have to plan it out months ahead of time?

Poconos would probably be available but not AC.  For example, right now, the weekend of March 13 is available right now at Poconos.  Even Alexandria is available in February (weekend of the 6th and 27th)!

I missed exactly where you are; from Ohio, the closest Wyn’s are Poconos, Smoky Mts and Nashville.  We can get to our favorite Wyn resort in one long day:  Ocean Ridge at Edisto Beach, SC.  We like quiet.  Some people like lots of activity and even Myrtle Beach is one  (long) day away with several resorts available.  We love the Cottages there.

>>3. I think I've read that points expire after each year. However for a fee I can transfer them into RCI. Using RCI points I can still book wyndham resorts right?

There is no fee to deposit points in to RCI.  However, when you exchange, there is the RCI exchange fee.

However, despite that, yes, you can resorts Wyndham resorts from RCI for a cheaper $$ expenditure than with the points.  We, and many other TUGGERs, got a 2 BD Kona Hawaiian Resort for a 28K deposit during a Wyn bulk space bank.  What a deal!

>>5. Assuming I had enough points, in Wyndham points, could I use them on a presidential room?

Yes!  It just takes a whole lot!

>>Or, do I need to be enrolled in some special presidential membership?

No!

>>. I think read something that implied that in the material that Wyndham gave me.

The salesmen try to say that!  They told us last week at Bonnet Creek that you need to be in PR (Presidential reserve  = 2 million UID points) to get the presidential suites.  

>>6. If I can't book presidential suites through wyndham with wyndham points, could I with banked RCI points?

Probably not – The presidential units get reserved quickly.  Has anyone ever seen a presidential unit in RCI?


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## smithinc49 (Jan 13, 2010)

We're from Wilmington, Delaware.  About an hour and 20 minutes from Atlantic City.  Our investment into this *might *hinge on actually being able to book in Atlantic City for a weekend about a month or 2 out.

If I have to do further out I guess thats ok.  But, like 6+ months out for a weekend in Atlantic City would be pretty bad.

Otherwise, MF's of about $120/month for 300k+ points would be ideal and flexible enough to do anything that we would ever do.  At least thats what I've figured out thus far.  I still need to read mroe of the primer though.


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## Jya-Ning (Jan 13, 2010)

smithinc49 said:


> We're from Wilmington, Delaware.  About an hour and 20 minutes from Atlantic City.  Our investment into this *might *hinge on actually being able to book in Atlantic City for a weekend about a month or 2 out.
> 
> If I have to do further out I guess thats ok.  But, like 6+ months out for a weekend in Atlantic City would be pretty bad.
> 
> Otherwise, MF's of about $120/month for 300k+ points would be ideal and flexible enough to do anything that we would ever do.  At least thats what I've figured out thus far.  I still need to read mroe of the primer though.



AC is not very strong in demand.  So 3+ month in most of the time are O.K.  But think it through before you buy.  Will you be too tired after a few trips, and want to go other places instead.

Jya-Ning


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## smithinc49 (Jan 13, 2010)

I only asked the AC question because it is so close to home and we probably would go there 2 weekends per year.  And we ussually only plan a month or two out.  Though thats typically because we are not BIG gamblers and dont get ultra cheap rooms.  So maybe we would plan a little further out (3 months max) if we knew we had a timeshare option there.


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## riperoo (Jan 13, 2010)

I am from Pa, and although I have not stayed in AC yet, I am always keeping an eye on it, and from what I have seen, with the exception of long weekends or holidays it pretty much always has availbility. I plan on doing the same thing this year, a couple of weekends away with just me and the wife. Even right now, although nothing availble for this weekend, there is about 30 listings for next weekend, including a 3 bedroom presidential. :whoopie:


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## smithinc49 (Jan 13, 2010)

That's great it sounds like there is sufficient availability to make it work.


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## bnoble (Jan 14, 2010)

Another thought: if you are mostly looking for short-term (<60 days) bookings, you might do better renting from a Platinum VIP than owning resale yourself.


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## smithinc49 (Jan 14, 2010)

How does that work?  The platinum VIP would have to search for me to book for me right?  So that would be a very manual process.


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## Jya-Ning (Jan 15, 2010)

Either you do the search, or someone in Wyndham does the search, or the landlord does the search.  There is no automate computer program in Wyndham that can do the search for you.

Although people usually feel more flexible if doing their own search, in this case, the VIP owner will be more economic benefit.  So you have to determine which is more important to you.

Jya-Ning


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## BellaWyn (Jan 17, 2010)

smithinc49 said:


> How does that work?  The platinum VIP would have to search for me to book for me right?  So that would be a very manual process.


Brian makes a good suggestion, especially if you are planning on doing mostly short-stays.  VIP Platinum owners will be able to get you better units for much less (presuming they are willing to pass along their discounts -- most do).

Example:  Your annual MF's for 300K points is going to be $1,350 - $1,800 out of pocket every year (depending on which location you purchase).  You are PREPAYING for your travel with MF's whether you travel or not.

A Prime 3N weekend stay in a 2BR Pres in Atlantic City = 156K points (more than 1/2 of a 300K ownership).   Using an average MF/K of $5/K, that 156K points cost you $780 or ($260/night).  A VIP Platinum could RENT you the same thing taking their discounts @ 50% @ 60-days (or less) from check-in.  Now that 156K only cost you =$390 (or $130/night).  This number could, theoretically be improved on if the VIP Plat applied UPGRADES to that formula and passed them along to the renter.  Again, many do, some don't.

Renting relieves you of the annual MF's and still allows you to pretty much travel within the WYN system at the comfort level you desire.  If you have a slow travel year (meaning your real life doesn't have time for it) then you don't have to worry about what to do with unused points that you already prepaid your MF's.

The down side is that you don't have the luxury of "surfing availability" of the reservation system when you don't own.  If you really want to get a perspective on what's available to rent, Wyndham or otherwise, check out the TUG Marketplace!

There are owners that compromise on this, maintain a lower-level of owned points and when they run out, they rent.  Gives them the best of both worlds and minimizes the annual MF expense.

If you want to know how to FIND a VIP Plat that will rent, just ask and they will miraculously appear in your Private Message inbox! :whoopie: 

Just more to think about.....


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## gelinasrj (Mar 3, 2010)

*Cruising With Points*



smithinc49 said:


> I posted late last night stating that I bought from a dealer.  We're sending our certified return receipt letter to back out!!!  I obviously have a lot to learn on this website and am reading many posts.
> 
> My wife and I are still very much interested in the Wyndham points TS.  We want to know if we buy a resale off of ebay will we be essentially getting the same points program as recently pitched to us by the dealer?
> 
> ...




********************************************************
We tried to book cruise thru Wyndham but found them limited.  Then tried RCI and they didn't have what we wanted.  We ended up booking thru a travel agency and got a better deal than either Wyndham or RCI.


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## John P (Mar 7, 2010)

*Planning weekends*



smithinc49 said:


> I only asked the AC question because it is so close to home and we probably would go there 2 weekends per year.  And we ussually only plan a month or two out.  Though thats typically because we are not BIG gamblers and dont get ultra cheap rooms.  So maybe we would plan a little further out (3 months max) if we knew we had a timeshare option there.



One thing that you might consider is booking further out for when you think you might be able to go and then cancelling if you can't.  If you cancel over 15 days out you get your points back as "cancelled points."  There is some loss of flexibility with these but not much.  If you had enough points you could book several weekends and then use the one that works best.


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## mcsaundra (Aug 12, 2010)

smithinc49 said:


> I posted late last night stating that I bought from a dealer.  We're sending our certified return receipt letter to back out!!!  I obviously have a lot to learn on this website and am reading many posts.
> 
> My wife and I are still very much interested in the Wyndham points TS.  We want to know if we buy a resale off of ebay will we be essentially getting the same points program as recently pitched to us by the dealer?
> 
> ...


Curious if you did this?  I am a TUG member with Wyndham which don't seem to work as well for me as Worldmark did!  Did you buy points and what did you pay?


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