# 20 Year old Woman Dies at Playa del Carmen Resort



## davidvel (Jul 17, 2017)

Abbey Conner, 20, drowned in January while swimming with her brother, Austin Conner, 23, in chest-deep water at the pool in the Iberostar Paraiso Resort. 
...
The hotel told the family that the two were found unconscious and facedown in the pool, according to Bill Conner. Austin Conner suffered a concussion, and Abbey Conner sustained a broken collarbone and was brain dead before succumbing to her injuries in a Florida hospital days later.
...
Austin Conner said they had been drinking before their swim, and their blood alcohol level was around 0.25
...
ABC NEWS STORY
The resort said there are no video cameras. Weren't there other guests at the pool?


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## rapmarks (Jul 17, 2017)

How do you get a concussion in a pool?  Trying to do a cannonball way to close to the edge?


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## DeniseM (Jul 17, 2017)

You dive into a shallow pool and hit your head.


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## PigsDad (Jul 17, 2017)

And when you're drunk (0.25% BAC!  OMG!), judgement goes right out the window.  Sad, but completely preventable.

Kurt


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## Braindead (Jul 17, 2017)

He jumped or dove on top of her. Breaking her collarbone and giving him a concussion.
Collision between the 2 of them.
Not saying that's it. But would explain what happened


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## VegasBella (Jul 18, 2017)

The most likely way to get a consussion in a pool is to dive into water too shallow for the dive. But you could also just bang your head against the pool wall while playing around. It's possible to get a concussion from falling hard onto your tailbone too though that's less likely in a pool. 


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## VacationForever (Jul 18, 2017)

... or maybe they were both murdered... that's from one who just watched a marathon of Miss Fisher's Murder Mysteries on Netflix...


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## davidvel (Jul 18, 2017)

Please all PM me with your details. I'm in need of a forensic human factors injury expert. You all seem to fit the bill.


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## Phydeaux (Jul 18, 2017)

davidvel said:


> Please all PM me with your details. I'm in need of a forensic human factors injury expert. You all seem to fit the bill.


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## easyrider (Jul 18, 2017)

davidvel said:


> Abbey Conner, 20, drowned in January while swimming with her brother, Austin Conner, 23, in chest-deep water at the pool in the Iberostar Paraiso Resort.
> ...
> The hotel told the family that the two were found unconscious and facedown in the pool, according to Bill Conner. Austin Conner suffered a concussion, and Abbey Conner sustained a broken collarbone and was brain dead before succumbing to her injuries in a Florida hospital days later.
> ...
> ...



Swimming or doing anything with a blood alcohol level of .25 is kind of dangerous. In contrast, one tourist accidentally dies in Hawaii every day, mostly from drunken drowning. Im not seeing this as anything nefarious. If you are trying to suggest more American tourists are harmed in Mexico you would be wrong. Hawaii , a small state has the entire country of Mexico beat regarding accidental deaths of Americans.

Bill


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## Ricci (Jul 18, 2017)

easyrider said:


> Swimming or doing anything with a blood alcohol level of .25 is kind of dangerous. In contrast, one tourist accidentally dies in Hawaii every day, mostly from drunken drowning. Im not seeing this as anything nefarious. If you are trying to suggest more American tourists are harmed in Mexico you would be wrong. Hawaii , a small state has the entire country of Mexico beat regarding accidental deaths of Americans.
> 
> Bill



Where are you getting those facts?


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## DeniseM (Jul 18, 2017)

Actually, it's an average of _one per week_ from _all_ tourist activities:  





> Since July 2012, at least 147 visitors — *nearly one a week* on average — have died in Hawaii from injuries suffered while doing common tourist activities like swimming, snorkeling, hiking and going on scenic drives.



http://www.insideedition.com/headli...wnings-on-the-rise-in-hawaii-tourist-hotspots

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/hawaii-tourist-deaths_us_572d512fe4b096e9f09197c9

http://www.civilbeat.org/2016/01/de...r-visitors-to-hawaii/?cbk=56834b63529f3&cbs=1


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## 1Kflyerguy (Jul 18, 2017)

DeniseM said:


> Actually, it's an average of _one per week_ from _all_ tourist activities:



Guess that explains why every-time I am on vacation in Hawaii i see at least one news story about some tourist  being seriously hurt or killed.


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## DeniseM (Jul 18, 2017)

Yes - but "1 per day" is an exaggeration by a factor of 7x.

I frequently see visitors in Hawaii who seem to have poor survival instincts.


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## myoakley (Jul 18, 2017)

Thanks, Denise, for posting these links.  My husband and I traveled to Hawaii (Oahu and Kauai) a few years ago.  We had absolutely no idea of the dangers (rogue waves, strong currents) posed by the waters at the beaches and only learned about them from reading on TUG.  Fortunately (!), we are not big into water sports preferring to do our swimming in the pools. I think all tourists should be handed warning brochures while still on the plane en route to Hawaii.


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## saabman (Jul 18, 2017)

The bro - sis Cancun story is tragic and the subsequent investigation seems sketchy but Mexico typical. So the girl "at 130 pounds would have to drink about seven shots in one hour to have a level that high." Lets not forget they're on vacation with their parents not other age related companions. Lousy for the parents that no one knows or saw anything.

http://www.jsonline.com/story/news/...ughters-mysterious-drowning-mexico/469647001/


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## davidvel (Jul 18, 2017)

saabman said:


> The bro - sis Cancun story is tragic and the subsequent investigation seems sketchy but Mexico typical. So the girl "at 130 pounds would have to drink about seven shots in one hour to have a level that high." Lets not forget they're on vacation with their parents not other age related companions. Lousy for the parents that no one knows or saw anything.
> 
> http://www.jsonline.com/story/news/...ughters-mysterious-drowning-mexico/469647001/


Not sure where the reporter got those numbers. Per CA DMV, 5 standard shots could lead to that level. The son said they had 5-6 shots, but also that he lacked recollection of the events. They may have been larger or stronger than a standard shot. As much as they drank, it is possible they also drank on the plane, or on the ride to the hotel. 

They certainly drank a lot in a short time. 





Source: CA DMV


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## easyrider (Jul 18, 2017)

Ricci said:


> Where are you getting those facts?



The one tourist death rate in the articles about Hawaii only includes tourists that died accidentally. This one tourist a week doesn't include all deaths of tourists in Hawaii and I doubt that that is accurate. The average accidental drowning rate from 2008 - 2012 was 68 a year. 

Then add in all of the injuries that tourists suffer each year and it looks like Hawaii is a very dangerous place. Falling is the number one cause of injury in Hawaii.  

http://health.hawaii.gov/injuryprev...ing-Conf.-Visitor-Safety-How-are-we-doing.pdf


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## DeniseM (Jul 18, 2017)

> The one [per week] tourist death rate in the articles about Hawaii *only includes tourists that died accidentally.*



Your chart says that 68 died from injuries - not just from drowning - drowning is included in the number 68.

But you said that one tourist dies every day - that's 365 tourists.  So if 68 die accidentally, how did the other 297 die???


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## T-Dot-Traveller (Jul 18, 2017)

DeniseM said:


> Your chart says that 68 died accidentally - not from drowning - drowning is included in the number 68.
> 
> But you said that one tourist died every day - that's 365 tourists.  So if 68 die accidentally, how did the other 297 die???
> 
> View attachment 4332



Old Age ? 

None of us live forever .

*******
Tragic Story


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## easyrider (Jul 18, 2017)

DeniseM said:


> So if 68 die accidentally, how did the other 297 die???
> 
> View attachment 4332



Other than accidentally would be any thing other than an accident is my guess. Suicide is very popular in Hawaii. Hawaii is in the top ten states regarding people committing suicide. It was number 1 until recently. Overdose in Hawaii out ranks auto accidents regarding deaths in Hawaii. Many tourists are over 60. 

While it is tragic that two young people drank too much and died at a resort it doesn't mean anything nefarious happened. It was bad judgement on the kids and even more so on the parents for letting the kids get wasted, imo.

Bill


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## DeniseM (Jul 18, 2017)

> Other than accidentally would be any thing other than an accident is *my guess*.



Yes, exactly - you are guessing, because your evidence does not support your claims of 365 tourist death a year.  There weren't even 365 tourist deaths in 5 years:


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## DeniseM (Jul 18, 2017)

BTW - I am not implying anything nefarious because the original accident occured in Mexico, and I don't think anyone else is either, but it is a rather odd situation.


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## Phydeaux (Jul 18, 2017)

Please Bill, stop......


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## John Cummings (Jul 18, 2017)

DeniseM said:


> BTW - I am not implying anything nefarious because the original accident occured in Mexico, and I don't think anyone else is either, but it is a rather odd situation.



Nothing odd about it at all. We have vacationed extensively in Mexico at Mazatlán, Puerto Vallarta, Nuevo Vallarta, Cancun, Riviera Maya etc, and we also lived in Mexico. Drunk tourists are pretty common and I mean falling down drunk especially around the swimming pools. We have seen many get pretty badly hurt. We have not seen the same thing in Hawaii.


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## PigsDad (Jul 18, 2017)

DeniseM said:


> BTW - I am not implying anything nefarious because the original accident occured in Mexico, *and I don't think anyone else is either*, but it is a rather odd situation.



Oh, but they are.  In the video, the reporter and news anchors were definitely presenting the story as if there was some big conspiracy around the girl's death.  And her father was quoted in the article:



> "Someone needs to be held responsible for this," Bill Conner said. "It doesn't make any sense. We're lucky we didn't lose both of our kids."
> 
> "She was healthy, but for some reason she drowns in a pool. Waist deep ... it's unbelievable," he added.



Everyone in the article / video were acting as if there just had to be an alternate reason to her death other than being extremely drunk and doing something exceptionally stupid, which logically is most likely what happened.  If that is what indeed happened, then no one other than the 20 and 23 year old siblings "needs to be held responsible for this".

Kurt


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## VacationForever (Jul 18, 2017)

I know this is going to sound judgmental.  I don't drink and I really don't get parents allowing their kids to drink from a young age.  An ex-colleague's 18 year-old son was critically ill in the hospital with liver cirrhosis.  He said his son had been drinking since young.  His wife did not work and we were all quietly wondering how they brought up their children.  He ended up taking early retirement to spend time with his dying son.


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## easyrider (Jul 19, 2017)

DeniseM said:


> Yes, exactly - you are guessing, because your evidence does not support your claims of 365 tourist death a year.  There weren't even 365 tourist deaths in 5 years:



Maybe so but there are more than 1 tourist death each week by accident in Hawaii according to the State of Hawaii. The link I provided showed 68 accidental deaths each year. This last Feb in Hawaii there was a week of 1 tourist killed or injured each day for 8 days. That would be about 1 a day by accident. 

http://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/story/34396305/8-visitors-hurt-or-killed-in-hawaii-waters-in-8-days

I think you are thinking about accidental deaths only. Many tourists that are in remote areas of Hawaii, which is almost anywhere these days because of traffic, have a real problem if they need emergency care. Natural deaths are not reported so much, so regarding tourists, statistically, in a group of over 8 million tourist, especially considering age groups, Im certain that the overall death rate of tourists in Hawaii is over 1 per day. According to Vital Statistics for Hawaii there were 11,009 non resident deaths in 2016. A large number of the non resident deaths are tourists.

http://health.hawaii.gov/vitalstatistics/preliminary-2016/#state

Bill


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## Phydeaux (Jul 19, 2017)

PigsDad said:


> Oh, but they are.  In the video, the reporter and news anchors were definitely presenting the story as if there was some big conspiracy around the girl's death.  And her father was quoted in the article:
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Well said. Agreed. 

Just another example of no accountability. Everyone is a victim today.


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## davidvel (Jul 19, 2017)

Phydeaux said:


> Well said. Agreed.
> 
> Just another example of no accountability. Everyone is a victim today.


It could have been a bad accident involving two kids simultaneously (without any witnesses near a crowded bar), who drank too much. Its also just as possible that someone took advantage of their inebriated state. But we don't  know.

As for the US vs Mexico comparisons, its hard to imagine that there would not have been a much more thorough investigation here, give the injuries sustained by the siblings, and how they were found. To me this is what the parents are talking about. Unfortunately,  Mexico is not the US.


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## PigsDad (Jul 19, 2017)

davidvel said:


> As for the US vs Mexico comparisons, its hard to imagine that there would not have been a much more thourough investigation here, give the injuries sustained by the siblings, and how they were found. To me this is what the parents are talking about. Unfortunately,  Mexico is not the US.


I highly doubt this.  Do you really think that if this happened at a resort in the US, they would be throwing out things like "kidnapping attempt" or "robbery"?  The accident was investigated; the result was something that the parents didn't want to accept -- that their kids were inebriated to the point of not being able to remember what happened (son's account) and had an accident in the pool.

Kurt


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## DeniseM (Jul 19, 2017)

> According to Vital Statistics for Hawaii there were *11,009 non resident deaths in 2016*. A large number of the non resident deaths are tourists.



This is just plain false - there were 11,009 *total deaths* in Hawaii - not *non-resident deaths. * 

This is laughable, can you imagine what the outcry would be if 11 thousand visitors a year died in Hawaii???  

Bill - I don't know if you are just trolling us, or you truly don't understand the data that you are posting, but either way, it is pointless to try to discuss this with you.  I'm out.


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## easyrider (Jul 19, 2017)

http://health.hawaii.gov/vitalstatistics/

I see that you are right. I think I saw the non resident dealio for marriage and mixed it up. 

Regardless of my oversight, there are more than 50 accidental deaths each year in Hawaii and there are definitely a number of tourists that pass away by other than accidental death in Hawaii. 

Bill


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## Tia (Jul 20, 2017)

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...mexico-suspected-drugging-tourists/490429001/  Interesting article on more re this terrible story


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## rpennisi (Jul 20, 2017)

I don't think that paying cash for medical services as mentioned in the above article is so unusual.  Our insurance doesn't work there, and the doctors want to be paid in cash.  My wife got food poisoning one year while we were staying at the MP in RM (might have happened off site).  She got very good treatment by the Dr on site, but he wanted payment in US dollars, which fortunately we had.  He gave us a detailed bill in case we wanted to submit it back in the US (we didn't).

The facts in some of the cases in the USA Today article are disturbing.  We stick to bottled beer, but you do see lots of folks sitting for hours at the swim up bars.  AI tends to cause folks to drink too much, but some of those stories are definitely suspicious.


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## amycurl (Jul 21, 2017)

Yes, I know bad things can happen anywhere. But this seems to be well-researched and reported, and it's definitely a pattern at these AI resorts. Very scary, because how do you prevent it?

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...mexico-suspected-drugging-tourists/490429001/


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## Luanne (Jul 21, 2017)

amycurl said:


> Yes, I know bad things can happen anywhere. But this seems to be well-researched and reported, and it's definitely a pattern at these AI resorts. Very scary, because *how do you prevent it*?


One way to prevent it..............don't go to these resorts.


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## saabman (Jul 21, 2017)

This story continues to have traction. Another piece today. To add to Luanne's comment on prevention maybe a better answer is do the resorts but drink bottled beer. Maybe tough for most because everyone wants a little umbrella in their drink, don't they?

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/07/2...terious-death-at-mexican-resort-dad-says.html


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## VacationForever (Jul 21, 2017)

saabman said:


> This story continues to have traction. Another piece today. To add to Luanne's comment on prevention maybe a better answer is do the resorts but drink bottled beer. Maybe tough for most because everyone wants a little umbrella in their drink, don't they?
> 
> http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/07/2...terious-death-at-mexican-resort-dad-says.html


Easy, I don't consume alcohol...


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## davidvel (Jul 21, 2017)

VacationForever said:


> Easy, I don't consume alcohol...


They could slip it in a coke.


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## DavidnRobin (Jul 21, 2017)

Going back to the original story - before the tangential transition into HI deaths with convoluted 'facts' - if someone dies because of some type of drug/poison - it would be detected in the corpse. Instead of the interesting 'what ifs' - if the family is so determined to show that it couldn't possible be their children's fault. Get a blood sample and send it for complete forensic analysis. 


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## jlp879 (Jul 21, 2017)

Tainted alcohol is one way of getting sick or disoriented.  Scopolamine is another, and much harder to detect. 

https://elpais.com/elpais/2016/07/25/inenglish/1469445136_776085.html


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## davidvel (Jul 21, 2017)

DavidnRobin said:


> Going back to the original story - before the tangential transition into HI deaths with convoluted 'facts' - if someone dies because of some type of drug/poison - it would be detected in the corpse. Instead of the interesting 'what ifs' - if the family is so determined to show that it couldn't possible be their children's fault. Get a blood sample and send it for complete forensic analysis.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I don't think its that simple, depending on the drug, except on CSI.


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## moonstone (Jul 21, 2017)

This story is on a Belize Facebook group I belong to.  http://www.wfaa.com/news/health/resorts-in-mexico-suspected-of-drugging-tourists/458170922

Pretty scary if its true!


~Diane


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## jlp879 (Jul 22, 2017)

While timeshare guests endure a version of hell in a Mexican timeshare presentation, it looks like those who stay at 4 and 5 star All Inclusive resorts aren't left out of the fun and games either.

http://mexicovacationawareness.com/mexicostory.html


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## Karen G (Jul 22, 2017)

jlp879 said:


> While timeshare guests endure a version of hell in a Mexican timeshare presentation, it looks like those who stay at 4 and 5 star All Inclusive resorts aren't left out of the fun and games either.
> 
> http://mexicovacationawareness.com/mexicostory.html


What horrible experiences people have written about on that website! Very scary!


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## myoakley (Jul 22, 2017)

jlp879 said:


> While timeshare guests endure a version of hell in a Mexican timeshare presentation, it looks like those who stay at 4 and 5 star All Inclusive resorts aren't left out of the fun and games either.
> 
> http://mexicovacationawareness.com/mexicostory.html



I read through most of these stories, and it is very upsetting to say the least.  The common theme seems to be getting sick and blacking out after consuming drinks, often at the swim-up bars at the pools.  I am wondering, however, what is the goal of drugging these tourists, since most of them do not report being robbed/assaulted?   Could it be the problems are caused by using cheap/dangerous alcohol in these drinks in an effort to save money?


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## Braindead (Jul 22, 2017)

myoakley said:


> I read through most of these stories, and it is very upsetting to say the least.  The common theme seems to be getting sick and blacking out after consuming drinks, often at the swim-up bars at the pools.  I am wondering, however, what is the goal of drugging these tourists, since most of them do not report being robbed/assaulted?   Could it be the problems are caused by using cheap/dangerous alcohol in these drinks in an effort to save money?


Bootlegged alcohol can be very high proof.  When somebody says I only had 2 drinks doesn't mean anything.
I have seen some really strange stuff when people drank home brewed alcohol.
Think of the TV show Tickle was in on bootlegging. It can be very high proof if not watered down. It's a different type of drunk as if your drugged


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## T-Dot-Traveller (Jul 22, 2017)

The affect of dehydration / combined with alcohol  
AND 
just because you are cooled off / in the pool - does not mean your body is not dehydrating in the sun &  higher temperature .

This could be a factor as well .


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## Phydeaux (Jul 23, 2017)

Appears to be quite a few folks here jumping onto the sensationalist bandwagon that these two were drugged.

Count me out.

*Facts:*

They were both intoxicated, and became so in a very short amount of time.

They were young, inexperienced drinkers. The deceased wasn't even legal drinking age in her home state. Her brother, just one year or less older.

It's a LOT hotter in Mexico, and the sun is MUCH more intense there than what they are accustomed to in their home state of WI.

Human reasoning diminishes with intoxication.

Their injuries suggest they dove into a pool. How does anyone break someone else's clavicle? Please, do explain, and provide a few examples that you know of where someone broke someone else's clavicle. Golf ball sized lump on the forehead? Yup, that'll happen when you dive into the shallow end of the pool.

The young man's comments are suspect, and highly unusual, given the outcome.

The parents appear to be in denial. Quite normal if your underaged kids just binge drank on arrival to their hotel.

======

Believe what you want to believe. After all, that is human nature. But, it never hurts to use logical thinking, and consider the most likely cause.

Someone earlier asked, "how do you prevent this?" Pretty darned simple. Don't get intoxicated.


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## Suzy (Jul 23, 2017)

This is an interesting website from the US State Dept.

https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/statistics/deaths.html


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## Phydeaux (Jul 23, 2017)

DavidnRobin said:


> Going back to the original story - before the tangential transition into HI deaths with convoluted 'facts' - if someone dies because of some type of drug/poison - it would be detected in the corpse. Instead of the interesting 'what ifs' - if the family is so determined to show that it couldn't possible be their children's fault. Get a blood sample and send it for complete forensic analysis.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk





Bingo. However, a blood analysis/toxicology was done as is protocol at autopsy. Drugs found: none. Now, the conspiracy folks that feed on sensationalism are already thinking "t_he forensics were tampered with....they hid the evidence_..."

Or, two young people got themselves inebriated and dove into a pool.


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## davidvel (Jul 23, 2017)

Phydeaux said:


> Bingo. However, a blood analysis/toxicology was done as is protocol at autopsy. Drugs found: none. Now, the conspiracy folks that feed on sensationalism are already thinking "t_he forensics were tampered with....they hid the evidence_..."
> 
> Or, two young people got themselves inebriated and dove into a pool.


The story I read said they did not have the toxicology results. Do you have a link to where it says "Drugs found: none"?

I doubt they were drugged as well, by the way. Your explanation is certainly possible and logical.


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## Maple_Leaf (Jul 23, 2017)

Tia said:


> https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...mexico-suspected-drugging-tourists/490429001/  Interesting article on more re this terrible story


A very interesting part of the story is that Mexican tax authorities estimate that 43% of the alcohol consumed in Mexico is illegal. Who knows what is in it? The Mexicans sure don't.


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## Phydeaux (Jul 23, 2017)

Sensationalism continues......


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## amycurl (Jul 23, 2017)

I believe the two young people in this instance were drunk and dove in. My "how do you prevent this" question was in response to the article (which was't really related to this incident) I posted, which later got merged into this thread. The context was different.  And was also answered earlier: drink bottled beverages only, or don't go to Iberostar resorts.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## pianoetudes (Jul 23, 2017)

The drunk diving accidents are less frequently then drunk driving.

But I believe drunk diving accidents can happen in New Jersey, or else where on earth.


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## davidvel (Jul 27, 2017)

Look out Phydeaux, State department now issues warning:

*Alcohol:* There have been allegations that _consumption of_  tainted or substandard alcohol has resulted in illness or blacking out. If you choose to drink alcohol, it is important to do so in moderation and to stop and seek medical attention if you begin to feel ill.

https://travel.state.gov/content/passports/en/country/mexico.html


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## T_R_Oglodyte (Jul 27, 2017)

An alternative is to consume only raicilla.  Then you know with certainty that you are consuming hooch.


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## Phydeaux (Jul 27, 2017)

davidvel said:


> Look out Phydeaux, State department now issues warning:
> 
> *Alcohol:* There have been *allegations* that _consumption of_  tainted or substandard alcohol has resulted in illness or blacking out. If you choose to drink alcohol, it is important to do so in moderation and to stop and seek medical attention if you begin to feel ill.
> 
> https://travel.state.gov/content/passports/en/country/mexico.html



What warning? From your link:* Quintana Roo (includes Cancun, Cozumel, Playa del Carmen, Riviera Maya, and Tulum):* *No advisory is in effect.* However, U.S. citizens should exercise caution when traveling south of Felipe Carrillo Puerto or east of Jose Maria Morelos as cellular and internet services are virtually non-existent.
*Yucatan (includes Merida and Chichen Itza):* No advisory is in effect.

*Allegation: *
"an assertion unsupported and by implication regarded as unsupportable" Webster

There are many millions of tourists that vacation in this region annually. Given the fact that these tourists who are on vacation tend to imbibe in alcoholic drinks, many to the point of excess,  doesn't simple logic suggest that there would be hundreds, perhaps thousands of examples of vacationers being poisoned?

If AI's or other establishments were tampering with their alcohol, the question that logic suggests is _why_? To get the non-suspecting gringo really really _really_ drunk? The latest allegation re. of the two young people certainly didn't need any help in their intoxication mission, given the rate they were drinking shots. Why? Extra tips?? Robbery? What happens if they got caught? Perhaps the resort would close faster than a wind blown door, and the bartenders would be out on the street, jobless. Tourism is this regions golden egg. Do you honestly believe locals are willing to see it disappear?

I'm not suggesting people abandon caution and drink whatever, wherever. Although I have sampled some raicilla in Yalapa, Mexico and enjoyed it from an old worn jug. I'm just trying to convey people need to be a bit less gullible, and refrain from sensationalism, regardless of it's source.


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## Tia (Jul 27, 2017)

It was the opening story on Today Show re the Mexico tainted alcohol and the State Department warning. Seems to me best not to drink any alcohol in Mexico as if it's tainted then bad things can and have happened.


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## Phydeaux (Jul 27, 2017)

Honestly, some should just stay at home.


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## davidvel (Jul 27, 2017)

Phydeaux said:


> What warning?


Its under safety and security:




Sincerely, Just the Messenger.


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## Phydeaux (Jul 27, 2017)

Allegations. Just that.


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## Tia (Jul 27, 2017)

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...o-resorts-after-tourists-blackouts/513563001/

Where there is smoke there is fire. Am sure they will correct it but until then safer to not drink south of the border


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## easyrider (Jul 27, 2017)

davidvel said:


> Its under safety and security:
> View attachment 4392
> 
> Sincerely, Just the Messenger.



That message would apply almost every where and anytime you can not see your drink being prepared. Hawaii has okolehao which is illegal. There are plenty of illegal distilleries in the USA and Canada. Probably more so than in Mexico. 

IMO, a person should know what they are drinking and eating. I think the strongest hooch I ever had was distilled in Montana. It was some kind of everclear. In Mexico I think the strongest hooch I ever had was racilla or 180 proof rum. 

Curently, Im only drinking an occasional beer.

Bill


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## Phydeaux (Jul 28, 2017)

Tia said:


> https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...o-resorts-after-tourists-blackouts/513563001/
> 
> Where there is smoke there is fire. Am sure they will correct it but until then safer to not drink south of the border




Of course, that makes perfect sense. Now tell it to the 15 million or so travelers that will be vacationing in this region this year. Good luck with that.

For some, best to stay home and watch more TV..


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## Tia (Jul 28, 2017)

Phydeaux said:


> Of course, that makes perfect sense. Now tell it to the 15 million or so travelers that will be vacationing in this region this year. Good luck with that.
> 
> For some, best to stay home and watch more TV..




Thinking most people won't catch the warnings and be at risk, but can't say there wasn't warning being made public. Trying to minimize this won't help either imho, so rather then more TV go somewhere else is my solution


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## Jim in Cancun (Jul 28, 2017)

http://www.travelresearchonline.com...not-really-but-not-the-entire-picture-either/


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## jlp879 (Jul 28, 2017)

So it may be some of the alcohol at resorts is not what it appears to be.  Many all-inclusive resorts now charge an additional fee for "top-shelf" liquor.  Is that the code for legally-produced alcohol?  Personally, I avoid AIs and drink the stuff I bought in the grocery store at my timeshare resort. 

Regardless of the alcohol incident, Mexican cartels have been slowly moving into areas that they left untouched before.  One of those areas is Quintana Roo.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...-narcos-take-their-war-into-hot-beach-resorts

That makes it likely for more people to be on the take.  Don't leave your common sense at home when you travel.  You might not think that you're a rich person, but to the average resort worker, you are.


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## Phydeaux (Jul 29, 2017)

Well, I for one am not buying the line of tainted alcohol.

I think it's bullshi#

A story from a family that lost their daughter to inebriation 6 months ago gained media traction now seeking $$$ from the AI where it happened, and now every sucker is jumping on the bandwagon.

I'll pass, thanks.

Been traveling to Mexico for the past 25 years, and have never had anything that even came close to resembling this BS story. Fake news. Getting really tired of it to.

Stick with Disneyland, a make believe world.


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## davidvel (Jul 30, 2017)

Phydeaux said:


> Well, I for one am not buying the line of tainted alcohol.
> 
> I think it's bullshi#
> 
> ...


Life of the party, as they say. #notinvited


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## LisaRex (Jul 30, 2017)

From everything I've read, I do suspect that some Iberostar employees were in cahoots with a local hospital to extort money from tourists.  What makes this noteworthy and newsworthy is that one of the victims, a young and attractive American from a well-to-do family, actually died.

In this particular case, I might have believed it was just a tragic accident if one person in their party overindulged and accidentally drowned. But 2 in the same party? On the same day? In the middle of the afternoon, with presumably dozens of people milling around? I don't know about you, but the last time I seriously overindulged, my stomach heaved it and hoed it out of my stomach before I could process it all.  I certainly didn't black out and wake up in a hospital.  And then we have a 5* hotel that conveniently lacks surveillance cameras, and a hospital that doesn't take credit cards. Yeah, the whole story stinks to high heavens, especially since the brother was at least a half a foot taller and heavier than his sister, not to mention a college student and an accomplished binge drinker (by his own admission).

In any event, true or false, these kinds of alleged shenanigans aren't limited to Mexico. You'll find scams and corruption everywhere in the world, including the good old US.  Just google "Tourist scams" and be prepared to be shocked at how audacious some are.  One notorious example is where a vendor will rent a jet ski (or moped) to a tourist, and afterwards claim the tourist damaged the jet ski.  The vendor will demand payment for the damage, which will conveniently be bartered down to whatever cash the tourist has on his person.

And then we have the infamous "cover charge" scam where tourists are lured into bars by "friendly locals" who chat them up and invite them for a drink at a particular bar...trouble is, when the tourist tries to leave, the manager points to a sign at the front door that says "Minimum order $100" or something like that.

My BIL and SIL were actually scammed by a Mexican police officer, or someone dressing up as one.  They and another couple were taking a taxi in Mexico (Cancun?) and a policeman pulled them over.  The cop claimed the driver ran a stop sign, and demanded $100 from each of them or he threatened to take them all to jail.

So, I think people who automatically say, "No way!" to this story are naive, while those who think that it was a rape or kidnapping attempt are maybe overthinking it. Because the common thread in all tourist scams is money.  And I can certainly believe that a group of people concocted a plan to get rich by using tainted alcohol to sicken tourists. It makes perfect sense to operate out of a luxury brand that offers an AI plan, because their marks are rich, drunk tourists.  Think about it:

A bartender targets an affluent-looking guest who is drinking (so witnesses can testify to that), and who is clearly there with a loved one.  He simply helps them along their journey by serving them tainted drinks.  When the guest becomes incapacitated, the helpful manager will usher them off to a "preferred" hospital for treatment.  When the loved one arrives, worried sick, the hospital takes advantage of their unique vulnerability by demanding a few thousand bucks payment... up front. They won't accept credit cards, of course, because the traveler could dispute the charge after the fact, and because credit cards leave a paper trail.  That would risk  exposing certain patterns that would allow a credit card company or law enforcement to connect the dots.  No, they want cold, hard cash, and even have a person on hand who can drive them to the ATM or bank so that they can access cash.  They really didn't want their marks to die, as their goal is to shake them loose for some cash, not actually permanently harm anyone.


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## Phydeaux (Jul 30, 2017)

LisaRex said:


> *some Iberostar employees were in cahoots with a local hospital to extort money from tourists.*
> _Really? What proof of this does anyone have? Can you provide a single instance of validation? One? Just one._
> 
> . *But 2 in the same party? On the same day? In the middle of the afternoon, with presumably dozens of people milling around?*
> ...


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## LisaRex (Jul 31, 2017)

Phydeaux, I'd continue the discussion, but I doubt we'll ever know the real truth of what happened here, so all we can do is speculate.  And since you are waaaay more invested in this than I am on this topic, rather than wonder about your true agenda, I'll just say "Happy travels everyone!"


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## Phydeaux (Jul 31, 2017)

LisaRex said:


> Phydeaux, I'd continue the discussion, but I doubt we'll ever know the real truth of what happened here, so all we can do is speculate.  *And since you are waaaay more invested in this than I am on this topic, rather than wonder about your true agenda,* I'll just say "Happy travels everyone!"



I'll tell you what my concern is, and it isn't an agenda.

There are a few things that truly annoy me. One is fake news, and the people that perpetuate it. It's the dumbing down of society, and not only does it irritate me, it frightens me since I share oxygen with these people. Second, I have friends in Mexico and I don't appreciate it when people perpetuate fake BS that can do nothing for their welfare or that of their families. These are dear friends, hard workers, and genuine. If someone that was close to you was being implicated with BS, I believe you would speak up also. Perhaps not, but I do, and I will continue to do so.

There are far too many people today that seem to have lost their common sense. I'm glad you have composed enough to know when to back down, since you must realize your earlier post read like a TV script for yet another crap show. Happy travels indeed. Perhaps you can visit Mexico someday, and learn more about one the warmest cultures there is.

Peace.


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## mikenk (Jul 31, 2017)

LisaRex said:


> Phydeaux, I'd continue the discussion, but I doubt we'll ever know the real truth of what happened here, so all we can do is speculate.  And since you are waaaay more invested in this than I am on this topic, rather than wonder about your true agenda, I'll just say "Happy travels everyone!"



Actually, that was Phydeaux's point? His agenda was that anyone coming on these forums and stating things to be true that are pure speculation are flat wrong to do so. If you are going to make a statement; back it up with some valid data. Otherwise, what is the purpose of the post?

People seem to enjoy immensley when that speculation is aimed at Mexico and love jumping on the Mexico forum to throw out speculation as the truth. I've observed it for years on TUG and other forums - and mostly from people who do not vacation in Mexico. It does get old and aggravates those of us that know better.

BTW, we just returned from a week there with 4 college aged grandkids who do drink. We went all over - nary a problem - same as for the last 25 trips. None of that is speculation.

Mike


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## Tia (Aug 1, 2017)

LisaRex said:


> ..........
> A bartender targets an affluent-looking guest who is drinking (so witnesses can testify to that), and who is clearly there with a loved one.  He simply helps them along their journey by serving them tainted drinks.  When the guest becomes incapacitated, the helpful manager will usher them off to a "preferred" hospital for treatment.  When the loved one arrives, worried sick, the hospital takes advantage of their unique vulnerability by demanding a few thousand bucks payment... up front. *They won't accept credit cards, of course, because the traveler could dispute the charge after the fact, and because credit cards leave a paper trail*. * That would risk  exposing certain patterns that would allow a credit card company or law enforcement to connect the dots*.  No, they want cold, hard cash, and even have a person on hand who can drive them to the ATM or bank so that they can access cash.  They really didn't want their marks to die, as their goal is to shake them loose for some cash, not actually permanently harm anyone.



I agree, suspicious. It's to me similar to the scam that timeshare sales persons commit all the time in telling falsehoods then having people sign paperwork that says people agree nothing not in writing counts and verbal promises are not real. I just hope the tainted alcohol stops.


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## Phydeaux (Aug 1, 2017)

I hope the stupidity stops.


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## davidvel (Aug 1, 2017)

Tia said:


> I agree, suspicious. It's to me similar to the scam that timeshare sales persons commit all the time in telling falsehoods then having people sign paperwork that says people agree nothing not in writing counts and verbal promises are not real.* I just hope the tainted alcohol stops.*





Phydeaux said:


> *I hope the stupidity stops.*


Well, your wishes may come true. Mexico says it is going to crack down on the tainted alcohol it acknowledges makes up 40% of alcohol served:

"The Mexican government has long acknowledged that the nation has a problem with adulterated alcohol. A 2017 report by Euromonitor International found 36% of the alcohol consumed in the country is illegal, meaning it is sold or produced under unregulated circumstances and potentially dangerous.

The study, done in collaboration with the nation’s Tax Administration Service, found that was an improvement from two years earlier, when 43% was illegal."

"The president of Mexico’s health commission, Sen. Salvador López Brito, said in an interview that the legislature is working on an “initiative to improve the controls and inspections for tainted alcohol at resorts.”

And, more stories coming out. Sounding a lot more like Bill Cosby's repeated denials:

"Four days before Abbey Conner was found floating face down in a pool at a Mexican resort, Mary Jo Kuhn waded over to a swim-up bar in the same complex. *On her second drink, she blacked out*.

Four days after Conner was pulled from the water, Meghan Gordon and her boyfriend were sitting on stools at the same swim-up bar where Conner and her brother had been drinking tequila on a family vacation. Throughout the afternoon, a friendly bartender served Gordon and her boyfriend a couple of mixed drinks, then two rounds of tequila shots. *Neither can remember what happened next — vomiting and being escorted away by hotel security*.

The two incidents are among more than three dozen that have surfaced in the wake of a Milwaukee Journal Sentinel investigation this month into the death of 20-year-old Abbey Conner at the Iberostar Paraiso del Mar in Playa del Carmen in January."
More #fakenews?  Story.

Given these facts alone, this would lead to a criminal investigation in the U.S. Sorry, but that's true.


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## silentg (Aug 1, 2017)

In central Florida we hear of children drowning in pools all the time, now we are hearing of babies dying in hot cars. So sad!


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## PigsDad (Aug 1, 2017)

Tia said:


> I just hope the tainted alcohol stops.



Have you seen any proof that tainted alcohol existed in any of these hearsay stories?  BTW, the "illegal" alcohol reported (alcohol sold and/or produced outside government regulations) is not the same as "tainted" alcohol.  

If truly tainted alcohol is supposedly so common in Mexico, wouldn't it be easy to gather samples and have them tested?  Have you seen any verified reports that such sampling has found tainted alcohol?

Kurt


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## davidvel (Aug 1, 2017)

PigsDad said:


> Have you seen any proof that tainted alcohol existed in any of these hearsay stories?  BTW, the "illegal" alcohol reported (alcohol sold and/or produced outside government regulations) is not the same as "tainted" alcohol.
> 
> If truly tainted alcohol is supposedly so common in Mexico, wouldn't it be easy to gather samples and have them tested?  Have you seen any verified reports that such sampling has found tainted alcohol?
> 
> Kurt


I agree. I think something is being added.


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## PigsDad (Aug 1, 2017)

davidvel said:


> I agree. I think something is being added.


Ok, so where are the reports of samples being collected, tested, and finding these mysterious additives?

Kurt


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## davidvel (Aug 1, 2017)

PigsDad said:


> Ok, so where are the reports of samples being collected, tested, and finding these mysterious additives?
> 
> Kurt


That's part of the problem. Police don't investigate. Hospital that resort sent her to didn't test for the few most likely drugs that would cause this reaction. 

I presume you didn't read the accounts of the dozens of people who have independently reported the same thing.


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## VacationForever (Aug 1, 2017)

davidvel said:


> That's part of the problem. Police don't investigate. Hospital that resort sent her to didn't test for the few most likely drugs that would cause this reaction.
> 
> I presume you didn't read the accounts of the dozens of people who have independently reported the same thing.


 Actually after reading the article again, she was flown back to Florida, which means all tests were done by the hospital in the US.  Any foul play should have been picked up by the tests.


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## PigsDad (Aug 1, 2017)

davidvel said:


> That's part of the problem. Police don't investigate. Hospital that resort sent her to didn't test for the few most likely drugs that would cause this reaction.


If this is such a common occurrence, why hasn't there been any independent investigation?  Take samples of the supposedly "tainted" drinks and test them.  Simple to do, but yet no one has done that yet? 

But wait, that wouldn't produce sensationalized headlines that produce revenue-generating click-through links, would it...



> I presume you didn't read the accounts of the dozens of people who have independently reported the same thing.


You mean all those stories that have come out _*after*_ the original story of the two kids getting black-out drunk (0.25 BAC!) and doing something stupid?

It's amazing -- they all seem to have just two drinks.  Gee, where have we heard that before?  Hint: "Honest officer, I've only had two beers!"

Kurt


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## Tia (Aug 1, 2017)

Personally no proof, just reading in articles that they are admitting there has been tainted alcohol 

http://www.wbay.com/content/news/Wi...n-resort-after-daughters-death-436741853.html

''Mexican officials say, over the past seven years they've seized more than a million gallons of tainted alcohol from Mexican businesses, including resorts. However the Iberostar Resort, where the Conners stayed, was not of the places with tainted alcohol, the Mexican Health Ministry tells ABC News''



PigsDad said:


> Have you seen any proof that tainted alcohol existed in any of these hearsay stories?  BTW, the "illegal" alcohol reported (alcohol sold and/or produced outside government regulations) is not the same as "tainted" alcohol.
> 
> If truly tainted alcohol is supposedly so common in Mexico, wouldn't it be easy to gather samples and have them tested?  Have you seen any verified reports that such sampling has found tainted alcohol?
> 
> Kurt


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## Maple_Leaf (Aug 1, 2017)

PigsDad said:


> BTW, the "illegal" alcohol reported (alcohol sold and/or produced outside government regulations) is not the same as "tainted" alcohol.


Mexico must be the only place in the world where a resort can't make money selling honest liquor to tourists.


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## mikenk (Aug 1, 2017)

Wow, it seems on this thread that we have decided to get to the bottom of this unfortunate incident. OK, let's review our knowledge gaps - what we know and don't know.

We learned today that it was reported that some organization (Euromonitor International) has reported that 36% of alcohol consumed in Mexico is illegal - in other words I assume, not being taxed. I briefly looked for the actual report but couldn't find it; if someone has a link, please post it so we can see what it said and how they determined it. It sounds like Mexico has some tax loopholes they need to fix - but do we really care? I personally like tax loopholes.

We also heard that 40% of the alcohol consumed in Mexico is tainted. I will call BS on this and can actually prove it. Over the last 15 years, my family, friends, and I have drank our way across all of Mexico a number of times sampling all kinds of drinks in all kind of places; we have never had any issues or blackouts. It is statistically impossible that 40% number is right - gotta be close to zero. Anyone on this forum blacked out on a drink in Mexico? It is also interesting the Canadian safety commission has not seen any reports from Canadians about tainted drinks.

Certainly some resorts like iberostar could be doing so; no clue - never been there. Has anyone? VW has shown the level executive leadership might go for profits. Regardless, this is a serious knowledge gap; I for one, won't be going there as there does seems to be some serious unanswered questions. That said, I really haven't seen any validated data supporting the Wisconsin paper and family allegations. Hopefully, the authorities will get it right.

The bottom line is there are far too many knowledge gaps to understand what happened in this instance - but any attempts to blame Mexico and the Mexican culture for this situation is really farfetched. I never even thought of blaming Germany for VW cheating on emissions.

Mike


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## Karen G (Aug 2, 2017)

I am closing this thread. All participants have stated their opinions & I see no reason to continue the insults.


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