# HGVC Open Season and Hilton Hotels



## Minivanman (May 10, 2017)

First post, and a HUGE thank you to the TUG'gers for just existing.  Wife and I sat through a presentation in Orlando over the weekend.  We bit (We NEVER bite on things like this, but we did).  We just sent the rescission letter today.  However, we're not convinced that HGVC is wrong for us.  It may very well be good for us, but not at retail prices.  

Anyway, I'm trying to understand the entire HGVC program.  Once I fully understand it, I can use it as a baseline to do comparison and contrast with other programs to see if something better suits our needs, or maybe nothing at all.  

So, in the briefing, my wife and I expressly asked a question about the "Open Season" program.  The way it was pitched was that we could book any Hilton Hotel at a greatly reduced rate.  When we asked for clarification, it was reinforced that we would exist within the entire Hilton network as club members and get great rates.  This piece is something we both remember well, despite our heads swimming during the ordeal.   

This is a huge selling point for us.  We're not resort people.  We're a "destination" family.  We're more interested in the activities surrounding a location than the actual roof we'll have over our heads.  So, in that, we don't care if it's an HGVC resort or an Hampton Inn.  I'll sleep on a couch for all I care.  For example, I'd rather go skiing in Steamboat, Co than Breckenridge.  There's an HGVC resort in Breckenridge, but only a Hampton in Steamboat.  As a family we get better value with, what we consider a better skiing experience, in Steamboat.  But that value only exists if we get the Open Season rates at Hilton hotels.  (Seriously, my wife put her foot down that I could NOT take the kids skiing and just sleep in the minivan.  She insisted on an actual roof over her kids heads.)

I hope that makes sense.  I think I know the answer is "no", we don't get those rates outside of HGVC resorts, but I have to ask as it was pitched this way in the sales meeting.  I've already done the math and converting to HHonors to book that same Hampton Inn would be seriously diluting the value of our HGVC club points.  

This is probably our biggest need as a family.  Our vacation destinations are rarely the same.  Many times we like to just cruise off for a weekend.  We'll do one big family vacation per year that gets voted on early in the year.  So, a system where we get the most flexibility and greatest number of resorts would be ideal.  The HGVC sales pitch told us what we wanted to hear and we signed on the dotted line.  

Were we misled, or is there something that gives us reduced Hilton rates within the program and I just haven't found it, or I'm calling it the wrong thing?  

Again, thank you everybody.  This site saved this family of four many thousands upon thousands of dollars.


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## WalnutBaron (May 10, 2017)

For the most part, it's a lot of hogwash. You are correct when you say that converting your HGVC points to HHonors points or hotel reservations is not just dilutive to your HGVC value, but a terrible idea in general. Yes, the hotels allow you to have access on very short notice with a much larger selection of locations and brands. But if you think about it, you're paying through your annual maintenance fees for a much larger, much more comfortable living space than a hotel room, typically at a beautiful resort location.

For your quick weekend getaways, hotels will be the answer, because of the benefits I mentioned above. But for longer family vacations, timeshare units are much more preferable. One thing that is constantly preached here on TUG is that--if you're going to own a timeshare--you simply have to have both the discipline and the ability to plan way ahead.

If you plan to buy an HGVC unit as a trader within the HGVC system, then buy a unit with lower maintenance fees. Availability for trades within HGVC is usually pretty easy to find as long as you book at the beginning of the 9-month window. If you plan to visit your home resort often, then you have the advantage of the Home Resort Season, which gives you exclusive availability from 12 to 9 months out without competition from other HGVC owners during Open Season.

Welcome to TUG!


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## Talent312 (May 10, 2017)

Open Season for HGVC Resorts:
OS does not apply to hotels, only HGVC resorts. You pay up front, in full, with cancellation penalties starting 30 days out. OTOH, you can book the same HGVC resort thru Hilton Hotels or Hilton Honors at a fully refundable rate and your CC is not charged until you check out. Moreover, while OS is supposed to undercut hotel rates, sometimes hotel rates are not much more. For any cash booking, a comparison should be made.

Tie-In with Hilton Honors:
A notoriously poor use of points. HH raised the points it takes to book hotels significantly, but HGVC did not adjust the ratio of HGVC points to HH points. For the points you'd use to book a weekend in a HGVC Resort studio, you'd now get about 2/3 of 1N at a Hampton Inn.

Otherwise:
HGVC is a decent system, which nearly all posters on this forum will praise for its flexibility, consistently HQ resorts, and both a phone and online interface which is consumer-friendly - aside from the sales weasels which you find everywhere. 

.


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## GT75 (May 10, 2017)

Welcome, I agree with what has already previously been posted.     I know that this is a lot to try to understand and we will try to help explain, as best we can.  I wanted to give you the HGVC rules (https://d1m2ucn09z2f8d.cloudfront.n...708e2b594f7/2017-HGV-Club-Reference-Guide.PDF).    I know that they can be confusing, but they are the full set of rules.   In there you will find the open season rates for the various resorts.    These have been greatly devalued from the past.   I did use them recently for a stay at Park City during ski season but it was struggle to pick between using points for 3 days or 2 nights open season rates.

I do agree that HGVC is a good system.     We like it and enjoy it, but we use it for booking resorts in the system.     We plan out and book some resorts at the 12-month window (ski weeks at Breckenridge and Park City).    We book others when the club window opens (9 month window) such as Hilton Head, Fiesta American-Los Cabo & Breckenridge-summer (these are examples on how we use the system).

Again, using your HGVC points to book hotel stays isn't economically a good idea (IMO) unless you don't have anything else to use the points on.     You can run the numbers to determine for yourself (or we will explain more on the numbers).


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## Minivanman (May 10, 2017)

Awesome replies!  Thanks people.  Yeah, I figured what we were told at the sales meeting turned out to be bull.  Still, it's hard to say the system isn't for us.  But it's time to step back and define some clear cut goals between my wife and myself.  Kids are old enough to appreciate vacations and like everybody else in the world, we'd like to travel in luxury for a bargain price, or bargain vacations for next to nothing.  Normally, I'm really good with playing systems for maximum benefit, but I need to understand the system.  Methinks there's a VERY good reason these systems use "points" and not real dollars.  I know the value of a dollar.  I don't know the value of a point and it's throwing me for a loop.  Seems a point is only worth what somebody thinks it's worth and that varies by person.  

When I tried to pin down the salesperson on valuing "points" he deflected and deflected.  Funny thing is, I used general knowledge of traveling to get a baseline dollar figure in my head and then valued the points based on that and came up with a figure during the sales meeting.  I showed that figure to my wife and we agreed on a high and low point around that number.  The salesperson and his manager came back and pitched us a ridiculously higher number.  We negotiated and then through sheer lack of conviction to stick to our number we caved.  They kept throwing in more and more and I lost track of it all.  

Anyway, when we got back to our hotel we looked up true values of these HGVC memberships and found them to be valued on the resale market almost exactly at the number I originally came up with.  I felt validated.  We felt stupid, but refused to spend one more hour of our trip on dealing with the problem.  The day we got back, the rescission letter was in the mail.  Now I can no longer brag about being some great negotiator, or savvy numbers guy when I get beaten like I did by these people.  But that doesn't seem to be the end of the story.  More research is needed.


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## brp (May 10, 2017)

Minivanman said:


> Awesome replies!  Thanks people.  Yeah, I figured what we were told at the sales meeting turned out to be bull.  Still, it's hard to say the system isn't for us.



We were once told basically the same thing. In fact, on the system that he had he did seem to find some really good rates. Of course, when I looked afterward on the regular site, I was not able to find these. We weren't buying at the time anyway (and would not buy from the developer), but it was interesting to see.

If I ever do this again, maybe I'll bring my tablet and try it live if they claim this again 

Cheers.


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## SmithOp (May 10, 2017)

We value our points based on maintenance fees plus amortized upfront cost (I figure 20 years usage).  My point usage cost is 16 cents a point, so if a week in a one bedroom is 4800 points, my cost is $768.

There are point stretching ways to get better value like booking weekdays which are half the point cost.  I am on a trip now where I booked a studio for the weekend and a three bedroom plus for the weekdays.


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## GT75 (May 11, 2017)

Minivanman said:


> But it's time to step back and define some clear cut goals between my wife and myself.



You are already doing what we recommend next.    Evaluate all of the different systems to determine if any are right for you.    We are here to help with any questions you might have.

Good luck.


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## presley (May 11, 2017)

Since you don't mind staying in Hampton Inn, I'll share that when I've stayed at them, and Homewood Suites and DoubleTree, the cash rates on the public booking site are always a much lower rate than that of my converted HGVC points. If you like Hamptons, Embassy Suites, Homewood Suites, Garden Inn, DoubleTree and Hilton Hotels, there is no reason to buy HGVC. You are much better just paying for your stays in cash and/or using HHonors points by having a HHonors credit card.


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## Blues (May 11, 2017)

Minivanman said:


> I don't know the value of a point and it's throwing me for a loop.  Seems a point is only worth what somebody thinks it's worth and that varies by person.



Actually, it varies by the season you purchase.  The following values are very rough and represent purchases on the resale market; but my information may be somewhat out of date.  If so, I'm sure someone will correct me ;-)

Platinum - a point costs roughly $1 to purchase, and roughly 15 cents per year to maintain (MF's)
Gold - a point costs roughly 50 cents to purchase, and roughly 20-22 cents per year for MF's
Silver - You can probably get these points for free, or nearly so.  But they cost 30+ cents per year in MF's

Depending on assumptions (how long you plan to keep them, implied interest rate, etc), most people think that platinum is the best value.  I agree with that.  If you want low entry price, gold is good.  Most of us consider silver to be practically worthless, and the market agrees.  I wouldn't buy silver (or bronze!) due to the high maintenance fees.

HTH,
Bob


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## DazedandConfused (May 11, 2017)

Blues said:


> Platinum - a point costs roughly $1 to purchase, and roughly 15 cents per year to maintain (MF's)
> Gold - a point costs roughly 50 cents to purchase, and roughly 20-22 cents per year for MF's
> Silver - You can probably get these points for free, or nearly so.  But they cost 30+ cents per year in MF's



I agree with your estimates as I figured it takes about 7-10 years of ownership for a Platinum to recoup any savings over a gold week in terms of purchase price and annual dues.

Also, platinum weeks are usually easier and faster to sell than gold weeks in the even you want to sell.


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## ontilt (May 13, 2017)

Even without open season for hotels, you can still get some great value.  There's Park City in addition to Breckenridge -- I'm close to closing on Valdoro.  I've stayed in Park City 8 times over the past two seasons using open season (got 36 days on mountain this season - not all there).  Valdoro also has a fairly good reputation as a resort in the system, so it is a couple notches above a Hampton.  

Have heard great things about Steamboat though (definitely on my list) and if you're locked in on that particular location, there are other timeshares (non-HGVC) that are available on market.  Some for quite reasonable prices.  




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## Tamaradarann (May 13, 2017)

presley said:


> Since you don't mind staying in Hampton Inn, I'll share that when I've stayed at them, and Homewood Suites and DoubleTree, the cash rates on the public booking site are always a much lower rate than that of my converted HGVC points. If you like Hamptons, Embassy Suites, Homewood Suites, Garden Inn, DoubleTree and Hilton Hotels, there is no reason to buy HGVC. You are much better just paying for your stays in cash and/or using HHonors points by having a HHonors credit card.



Converting HGVC points to Hilton Honors is ALWAYS a poor value use of points unless you are going to lose the points and have not other opportunity to use them such as an HGVC or RCI stay.  Therefore, if one is considering the conversion of HGVC points to Hilton Honors a benefit in considering the purchase of an HGVC timeshare, it isn't!
You get 1 or 2 nights in a hotel for a 1 BR platinum week worth of points.

However, using the points at HGVC resorts in certain areas like Hawaii and South Beach where hotels are $300 a night or more is a benefit.  I don't ski but I would image that would also be true for the Colorado and Utah resorts during the ski season.  Getting a Hilton Honors credit card and charging Hilton expenses for 12 Hilton Honors points/dollar or supermarkets, restaurants, and gas stations for 6 Hilton Honors points/dollar for Hilton family hotel stays is a much better way to pay for those hotel stays than converting HGVC points.


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## Sandy VDH (May 13, 2017)

I converted some HGVC to Hilton points only once. I needed few more points to top up the points I needed to complete a 10 day stay in Maldives. 

Since hotel rooms were $2K per night it was a good use of points.


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## Talent312 (May 14, 2017)

Sandy VDH said:


> I converted some HGVC to Hilton points only once...



I will admit to doing it, too. I got a decent deal for a 5N stay in DC.
I needed a few to complete the deal - _Maldives would've been better._
So I'd say, only if it's a no-go otherwise, and you really want to go.
.


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## frank808 (May 14, 2017)

Tamaradarann said:


> Getting a Hilton Honors credit card and charging Hilton expenses for 12 Hilton Honors points/dollar or supermarkets, restaurants, and gas stations for 6 Hilton Honors points/dollar for Hilton family hotel stays is a much better way to pay for those hotel stays than converting HGVC points.



Is there a different citi hilton honotlrs credit card?  I only get 6 points per dollar spent at hilton and 3 per supermarket, restraunts and gas stations.  Thanks



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## Talent312 (May 14, 2017)

frank808 said:


> Is there a different citi hilton honors credit card?
> I only get 6 points per dollar spent at hilton and 3 per supermarket, restaurants and gas stations.



There's also a Citi HH-Reserve card - $95 annual.
It's rewards are 10 at Hilton, 5 at airline+car rental, 3 other, plus 2 weekend nights.

The poster was referring to the Am-Ex HH Surpass card - $75 Annual.
12 at Hilton, 6 at supermarkets, restaurants + gas stations, 3 - other.
_The no-fee Am-Ex HH card is 7 - 5 - 3._

IMHO, unless you spend a ton at Hilton, Citi Reserve is better than Am-Ex Surpass.
The 2 free weekend nights more than cover the annual fee.

.


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## frank808 (May 14, 2017)

Thanks for the reply.  Since i mainly use the card to pay my maintenance fees to grab the extra points, i will get the citi reserve card.  It would double the miles i get for the $95 fee and like you quoted the 2 weekend nights would offset the fee.  Thanks again.

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## Tamaradarann (May 14, 2017)

frank808 said:


> Thanks for the reply.  Since i mainly use the card to pay my maintenance fees to grab the extra points, i will get the citi reserve card.  It would double the miles i get for the $95 fee and like you quoted the 2 weekend nights would offset the fee.  Thanks again.
> 
> Sent from my SM-T217S using Tapatalk



I have the Hilton Honors Amex not the Citi card, however, I believe that others who have the Citi Reserve Card have posted that they didn't get 10 points for paying maintenance fees.  However, the 2 weekend nights does sound very good.  With 6 HGVC timeshares I get enough points for 2 nights in a Hilton brand hotel for paying my maintenance fees with the Hilton Honors Amex.


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## Tamaradarann (May 14, 2017)

Talent312 said:


> There's also a Citi HH-Reserve card - $95 annual.
> It's rewards are 10 at Hilton, 5 at airline+car rental, 3 other, plus 2 weekend nights.
> 
> The poster was referring to the Am-Ex HH Surpass card - $75 Annual.
> ...



Are the 2 free weekend nights ANYWHERE there is availability with no restrictions?  Nights in some Hilton and Waldorf properties can go for 100,000 points or more.


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## brp (May 15, 2017)

Tamaradarann said:


> Are the 2 free weekend nights ANYWHERE there is availability with no restrictions?  Nights in some Hilton and Waldorf properties can go for 100,000 points or more.



First note that the *two* nights are only the sign-up bonus. After that it's *one* night annually. They have the "based on availability" disclaimer, and one has to spend $10K to get it. But, with $20K one gets Gold and $40K gets Diamond. Details here:

https://www.citi.com/credit-cards/credit-card-details/citi.action?ID=hilton-honors-reserve-card

mrs. brp has this ans we use it to get Honors Diamond. The free nights are an added bonus.

Cheers.


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## SCGirl (Jul 26, 2017)

We were told the same thing about being able to stay at hotels extremely discounted and just realizing today that we were duped.  Too late for us to do anything about it now.  Hopefully we will get to go to Hawaii one day and make all of this worth it.


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## CalGalTraveler (Jul 26, 2017)

FYI...The Citi Hilton Reserve card will be discontinued at the end of the year.  If anyone has an active link to still get the 2 free nights, please share as I would like to sign up for another card.  FWIW I used our anniversary night from this year for the Waldorf which was worth $900 a night.


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