# Should I rescind?



## nautiboy (Nov 25, 2014)

I did a bunch of reading on this site last night (*after* I signed a contract .. :-/ ) and I did read the article that said if you're even asking the question you should probably rescind.  And while that (plus reading through a lot of complaints) has me leaning this way, my situation is a little more complicated, so I was wondering if anyone had advice.  I'll try to give the short version.

I've been a Pacific Monarch Resorts owner for a number of years, though I never really made use of my timeshare.  I've been wanting to get out from under that for a while.  DRI bought Pacific Monarch about 2 years ago, and I *thought* that as a result of that my ownership just converted to Diamond, and in fact my payments switched to Diamond.  

Then Diamond called and offered one of the their free vacations if you sit through a tour, and it happened to line up with a planned vacation so I figured why not.  

During the course of the "tour" (which wasn't a tour, it was a 1-on-1 sales pitch) I discovered that I wasn't actually a Diamond member and that due to the bankruptcy purchase of Monarch they were offering me a special deal to buy into Diamond.  Now initially I was not really interested in going further into a hole that I already wanted to get out of, but as the numbers started coming up, it started to seem like it might be a way to actually start making use of my time share and save me from having to try and get out of it.

The deal they offered me, all told, was basically that for "only" $15K more I would get 8,000 points total if I gave up my (deeded) ownership with Monarch and joined the US Collections Trust.  This also included lifetime THE Club membership and they threw in a one-time 4,000 points.  And for the next 2 years I have the option of buying more points at roughly half the price ($3.86 per point) of the claimed going-rate of over $8 per point

Ostensibly, the normal price for 8,000 points is close to $60K, and you would normally only get 5 years in THE Club and then you would have to pay $3k to continue that.  So on the surface it seemed like a good deal, and I do like to take vacations, so it seemed like this was a good way to finally put my old timeshare that I never used to good use.  Plus, at least according to the sales pitch, I could use my points for airline, rental cars, etc. so the likelihood of my points wasting away because I couldn't use them didn't seem likely.

But now I'm reading all sorts of complaints about fast-escalating maintenance fees; there were all the complaints about the special assessment on the one Hawaii property; people complaining about never being able to book things; and most people generally considering DRI a scam and only fools would buy into it.

I did the purchase in Florida, and by state law I have 10 days to rescind/cancel the deal.  The deal was signed yesterday so I have 9 more days.  If I cancel the deal, the special conversion offer will no longer be available.  I will still have the (basically worthless to me) Pacific Monarch property.  

I'm really torn on what to do.  The conservative side of me thinks the risk (paying even more money for something I may not end up being able to effectively use, and being saddled with even higher maintenance fees) is not worth the reward.  The optimistic side of me thinks this could be a good way of finally putting my old timeshare to some use and keep me from the headache of trying to unload it.  

Any thoughts?


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## Passepartout (Nov 25, 2014)

I would rescind. Re-read your own last paragraph. Why pay more for something you may not use any more or better than what you own now? So rescind now. Hang around TUG. Learn how to use what you DO own. If it turns out after using it and getting up to speed, perhaps spending more might be in order, but I doubt it. In any case, be aware of the resale market, and the simple fact that due to the commission basis of the way those slick sales people (we usually call them 'weasels') are paid, and with no compulsion to be truthful (the thing that rules the terms it what's in that contract, not what you were told), buying from the developer is almost NEVER beneficial to the buyer.

So RESCIND now. Others will be along shortly to reinforce this. 

Welcome to TUG! Don't wait until the last day or two, rscind now- get your letter in the mail, and sleep better knowing that you made the right choice.

Jim

*ADDED:* I should mention that part about trading timeshare points for unrelated travel expenses- like air, rental cars, etc. If you consider using (roughly) $1000 in MF points to buy a $300 discount on a travel bill a good deal, not counting the buy in cost of the timeshare, go for it.


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## AwayWeGo (Nov 25, 2014)

*Yes.*




nautiboy said:


> Should I rescind?


Absolutely. 

Now.  

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


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## Rent_Share (Nov 25, 2014)

Yes - without reading your post


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## TUGBrian (Nov 25, 2014)

actually you will find the "actual" resale price of what you bought not only isnt anywhere near 60,000....its nowhere near the $15,000 you bought it for =)

are at least a dozen DRI points packages for sale right here on TUG...every one of them is being given away for $1 or less

http://tug2.com/timesharemarketplac...roomsMin=&BathroomsMax=&SleepsMin=&SleepsMax=


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## persia (Nov 25, 2014)

If you are asking the question, the answer is always yes. You can build up your knowledge and if you decide it's still right for you the deal, whatever they offered you, will still be there.


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## vacationtime1 (Nov 25, 2014)

persia said:


> If you are asking the question, the answer is _*always *_yes. You can build up your knowledge and if you decide it's still right for you the deal, whatever they offered you, will still be there.



Good advice.  I highlighted the word "always" because unless you can specifically justify a developer purchase rather than a resale purchase, the resale purchase is _*always*_ the answer after you have done your research.  (Exceptions are specific situations, such as the need for a fixed unit, a fixed week, requalification, etc.).


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## Passepartout (Nov 25, 2014)

Lemme see here.....Should I pay $15,000 (that the salesweasel says should be $60k [chortle, chortle]) for something I may or may not use? Or should I pay a buck on the TUG Bargain Deals or Marketplace for essentially the same thing? Or should I just list the one I own but don't use, for a buck, and just rent when I want to go to a timeshare on vacation?

Decisions, decisions.....


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## gjw007 (Nov 25, 2014)

Rescind.  If you arent sure, rescind, there will be another offer at a later date if you choose to go through will a purchase but you need to know what you are purchasing and the sad reality is that what you get will be different than the promises made by the sales staff.  You need to research to see what you are getting matches what the sales person said.  When all is said and done, it needs to written in the contract and many things stated by sales will probably not be in the contract.  Rescind if you are unsure


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## artringwald (Nov 25, 2014)

I don't think anyone on this forum will tell you not to rescind. Developer purchases often have advantages, but never worth the highly inflated prices that they charge. You can read many stories on TUG about the misinformation and outright lies told by timeshare sales people, not just the Diamond Resort sales people. One of the lies that is most often told is that your being offered a one time deal. Those same deals are offered at every presentation. If you rescind, you will probably be offered an even sweeter deal.

We're in the DRI Club and we like it because it's easy to book vacations at some very nice DRI managed resorts. However, of the long list of resorts in the US Collection, most are affiliates and are extremely difficult to book. I've put in searches for any size unit for any length of stay at any time in the next year and found nothing at some of the resorts in the US Collection.

If you don't like the timeshare you own now, follow the advice on TUG for giving it away. Then you can shop around as long as you like before considering buying something off the resale market.


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## Gophesjo (Nov 25, 2014)

Which Pacific Monarch Grand property do you own, and what week/season?  What are the maintenance fees?  Who knows - if you provide that information there may even be a TUGGER who will take it from you, especially if it is a SoCal beach week/unit.


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## mjm1 (Nov 25, 2014)

Gophesjo said:


> Which Pacific Monarch Grand property do you own, and what week/season?  What are the maintenance fees?  Who knows - if you provide that information there may even be a TUGGER who will take it from you, especially if it is a SoCal beach week/unit.



It sounds like he still owes on the mortgage. That would be problematic.


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## kalima (Nov 25, 2014)

*Rescind*

Immediately! Then think this thing through...there will always be another newer and better deal...please also join our Diamond Resorts Members site on facebook...loads of DRI members with lots of great advice...there are at least a couple of Pacific Monarch owners on there as I remember that name coming up a couple of times.


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## MULTIZ321 (Nov 26, 2014)

Look at your contract - it has the rescission instructions - follow them to the letter and rescind immediately before the deadline expires. Sent the letter return receipt requested via the US Post Office.


Richard


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## gbf (Nov 29, 2014)

*Recind*

We own at Diamond and Hilton. No comparison. Hilton has much better service. Diamond fees go up and up.


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## Bill4728 (Dec 1, 2014)

nautiboy said:


> I've been a Pacific Monarch Resorts owner for a number of years, though I never really made use of my timeshare.  I've been wanting to get out from under that for a while.  DRI bought Pacific Monarch about 2 years ago, and I *thought* that as a result of that my ownership just converted to Diamond, and in fact my payments switched to Diamond.


 You now do own DRI,  You just own points in the Monarch Grand collection of DRI.  BUT you are not a member of "the CLUB"  


> The deal they offered me, all told, was basically that for "only" $15K more I would get 8,000 points total if I gave up my (deeded) ownership with Monarch and joined the US Collections Trust.  This also included lifetime THE Club membership and they threw in a one-time 4,000 points.  And for the next 2 years I have the option of buying more points at roughly half the price ($3.86 per point) of the claimed going-rate of over $8 per point.


 As I said before you currently own points in the MGV collection. They want you to own points in the larger US collection.   When you buy direct from DRI you get a membership in "the Club" Once you buy direct from DRI those points you buy are always in "the club"  as long as you pay the MFs  but if you buy other DRI points ownerships they will not be in the club unless you bought them direct from DRI.  I'm assuming that you currently own about 133 MGV pts/24 months OR (8000 DRI pts/24 months) and are buying about 4000 more annual DRI points for $15K  Is that about right? 


> Ostensibly, the normal price for 8,000 points is close to $60K, and you would normally only get 5 years in THE Club and then you would have to pay $3k to continue that.


 LIE   As long as you pay the MFs, you do not pay any extra to remain in the club


> I did the purchase in Florida, and by state law I have 10 days to rescind/cancel the deal.  The deal was signed yesterday so I have 9 more days.  If I cancel the deal, the special conversion offer will no longer be available.  I will still have the (basically worthless to me) Pacific Monarch property.


  We also own MGV points with DRI  we find using them to be a pain, BUT we find trading them in Interval ( II ) for great cheap vacations is really easy. the 244 MGV pts (equals about 14,600 DRI pts) for those points we can generally find great trades in great resorts (like westins, hyatt and Marriott resorts) for about 3000- 4000 DRI pts /week. So we may not be able to sell our MGV points but we are finding that using them in II is a good to great value. 

Hope this helps


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## nautiboy (Dec 1, 2014)

Sorry to post and then disappear for a while.  I was reading all the responses, but things were hectic, as I was dealing with actually being on vacation, my SO's brother's wedding (which is why we were in FL), as well as trying to figure this whole deal out.  

Short version is that I ended up sending in the rescission letter.  I sent it UPS express, signature required - though after sending it I started to wonder if that was the best way.  My thought was I wanted proof that they received it, even more concretely than just tracking info showing it was delivered.  But after sending it I wondered if the signature required was going to cause problems.  Oh well, can't worry about that too much now.  



Passepartout said:


> *ADDED:* I should mention that part about trading timeshare points for unrelated travel expenses- like air, rental cars, etc. If you consider using (roughly) $1000 in MF points to buy a $300 discount on a travel bill a good deal, not counting the buy in cost of the timeshare, go for it.



Good info there.  



TUGBrian said:


> are at least a dozen DRI points packages for sale right here on TUG...every one of them is being given away for $1 or less
> 
> http://tug2.com/timesharemarketplac...roomsMin=&BathroomsMax=&SleepsMin=&SleepsMax=





Passepartout said:


> Lemme see here.....Should I pay $15,000 (that the salesweasel says should be $60k [chortle, chortle]) for something I may or may not use? Or should I pay a buck on the TUG Bargain Deals or Marketplace for essentially the same thing? Or should I just list the one I own but don't use, for a buck, and just rent when I want to go to a timeshare on vacation?
> 
> Decisions, decisions.....



Yeah, even before I read this post, that's the realization I came to.  Despite it being a "great deal", with them offering me $35K for my Monarch points, that great deal is nowhere near as good as buying the equivalent (or more) points for $1.  I wouldn't get THE Club membership, but the salesman claimed you can buy that for $3K, which still makes it a far better deal.  




Gophesjo said:


> Which Pacific Monarch Grand property do you own, and what week/season?  What are the maintenance fees?  Who knows - if you provide that information there may even be a TUGGER who will take it from you, especially if it is a SoCal beach week/unit.



I own 1 week every-other-year at Riviera Shores Resort in Dana Pt, CA.  I'd have to double-check, but I think the MFs are $107 per quarter.  



mjm1 said:


> It sounds like he still owes on the mortgage. That would be problematic.



Nope.  I paid that off around 1998, so it's been paid off for like 16 years.  



Bill4728 said:


> You now do own DRI,  You just own points in the Monarch Grand collection of DRI.



I'd like to ask you more questions about this, since it's not clear to me what exactly the deal is now with the Monarch Grand ownership.  But I'll put that in a separate post.  

Thanks everyone for the help!


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## nautiboy (Dec 1, 2014)

Bill4728 said:


> You now do own DRI,  You just own points in the Monarch Grand collection of DRI.  BUT you are not a member of "the CLUB"



Thanks for the info.  So do you know if what the salesman told me about being able to buy into THE Club for $3K is true?  When they went over the info about THE Club membership not transferring if I sell/transfer I asked if there was a way the new owner could get into the THE Club and he said they would have to pay $3K to get that.  So I would assume that if I were to later decide I really did want to buy into DRI, I could buy the points resale and then pay $3K to get into THE Club?  



> I'm assuming that you currently own about 133 MGV pts/24 months OR (8000 DRI pts/24 months) and are buying about 4000 more annual DRI points for $15K  Is that about right?



Yup.  That was basically the exact deal.  I have 133 MGV pts which I get every-other-year.  They offered to convert that to 4000 annual DRI points in the US Collection and an additional 4000 annual DRI points if I paid them $15K.  



> We also own MGV points with DRI  we find using them to be a pain, BUT we find trading them in Interval ( II ) for great cheap vacations is really easy.



That was actually my original plan, all those years ago when I first purchased the timeshare.  And for the first 8 or 9 years I maintained my II membership so that I could do that.  But shortly after I purchased the timeshare I got really into SCUBA and most of my vacations ended up being special liveaboard dive trips and thus I wasn't really able to make use of the timeshare or II.  So I finally dropped the II membership.  

Now things are a little bit different - due to health issues I'm not taking many SCUBA trips anymore, and in fact end up using a lot of my vacation days for health/sick days so haven't been taking many vacations.  But my health is slowly getting a little better, and I have a new SO with kids, so was thinking I will hopefully be taking more vacations and possibly the type of vacation where a timeshare might actually be beneficial.  Which is why the salesman's pitch was more compelling than I originally expected it would be.  



> So we may not be able to sell our MGV points but we are finding that using them in II is a good to great value.



A couple questions here:

1) Why do you say "we may not be able to sell our MGV points"?  Is that because of the DRI buyout?  

2) It used to be that you had to maintain a membership with II to make use of it.  But part of the salesman's pitch indicated that you can now make use of II and only pay the II fee if you actually use II.  Is that true?  And is that also true with the MGV points?  

3) Do I understand correctly that (assuming my rescission goes through properly) my MGV points can be used at any property in the MGV collection (assuming I can find availability, which it sounds like it might not be that easy, based on your description)?   If so, any idea why I don't seem to see an option on the website to try and make a reservation?  The FAQ seems to indicate that I should be able to just log into my account (on the new Diamond site) and make a reservation, but it doesn't seem to give me that option.  It shows that I have the 133 MGV points, but no links for making reservations or doing anything with those points.   Do I have to do it by phone?  Or is there something wonky with my account?  



> Hope this helps



Yes, very much!  Thank you!


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## HatTrick (Dec 1, 2014)

There should be a message box that pops up right after login that says, simply...


YES, RESCIND.​


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## Bill4728 (Dec 3, 2014)

> A couple questions here:
> 
> 1) Why do you say "we may not be able to sell our MGV points"? Is that because of the DRI buyout?


 No most timeshares are worthless. So even before DRI, it was hard to sell/give away a MGV ownership.

 Can you give away a MGV ownership now? possible but not easy. 



> 2) It used to be that you had to maintain a membership with II to make use of it. But part of the salesman's pitch indicated that you can now make use of II and only pay the II fee if you actually use II. Is that true? And is that also true with the MGV points?


All of what you said is not true. As long as you pay your yearly II membership fee you are a member of II even if you never use it. Many people find good deals on II memberships (2 years for the price of 1 and sometimes 5 years for the price of 2) which makes your II ownership much less costly. Members of DRI's "The Club" pay in their "Club" dues their II membership dues. DRI owners who are not in "the Club" must pay for their II membership themselves. 



> 3) Do I understand correctly that (assuming my rescission goes through properly) my MGV points can be used at any property in the MGV collection (assuming I can find availability, which it sounds like it might not be that easy, based on your description)?


 Yes that is true. 



> If so, any idea why I don't seem to see an option on the website to try and make a reservation? The FAQ seems to indicate that I should be able to just log into my account (on the new Diamond site) and make a reservation, but it doesn't seem to give me that option. It shows that I have the 133 MGV points, but no links for making reservations or doing anything with those points. Do I have to do it by phone? Or is there something wonky with my account?


I just log on to the DRI site and there is a link to making reservation stays. Not sure whay you are not seeing the link.  Remember that you may own 133 MGV points  But on the DRI web site, you will have about 8300 DRI points (133 x 60) to make your reservations at any of the old MGV resort locations.


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## nautiboy (Dec 3, 2014)

First, an update.  Diamond got my rescission letter and I just got off an hour long call with them trying to talk me out of rescinding.  A couple points that he made:

- Unlike what the salesman in Florida told me, you can't just pay $3K to get into THE Club if you buy resale.  He said to get into the THE Club after purchasing from resale, you have to buy 50% more points at the normal retail price.  

- I mentioned that I didn't want to potentially saddle my heirs with the maintenance fees, and he claimed that as long as I don't list it in my will or trust that wouldn't happen.  That seems to be contrary to some of the stories I've read, but maybe in those cases it was actually willed to them?  



Bill4728 said:


> Can you give away a MGV ownership now? possible but not easy.



Yeah, and that was his strongest pitch (and the reason why I initially decided to do the Diamond deal).  He said I'm not really going to be able to get rid of the MGV, so why keep paying MFs on it when I can change to Diamond and actually start making use of it. 

On the flipside he didn't really have an answer for my question about what happens if in 10 years, for whatever reason, I can no longer make use of my timeshare?  Since he made the resale market sound so unattractive (you have to buy an additional 50% of points at retail to get into THE Club, and he made compelling arguments of why you really want/need THE Club) how would I get out of paying those yearly MFs?  His only answer was "If you don't care about your credit rating you can just default."  And I said, "Yeah, but I *do* care about my credit rating!"  To which he didn't really have an answer.  



> I just log on to the DRI site and there is a link to making reservation stays. Not sure whay you are not seeing the link.  Remember that you may own 133 MGV points  But on the DRI web site, you will have about 8300 DRI points (133 x 60) to make your reservations at any of the old MGV resort locations.



While I didn't specifically ask him about this, a comment he made may potentially shed light on this.  He said that what I currently own is only at Riviera Shores Resort and I don't have access to the other MGV properties.


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## Bill4728 (Dec 4, 2014)

nautiboy said:


> He said that what I currently own is only at Riviera Shores Resort and I don't have access to the other MGV properties.


Ownerships at Riviera Shores are still sellable because of the great location. You will not get much money but you should be able to sell it. 

Reserving a week at RS may have changed since we sold our RS week. I do not know how you make reservations there now.  Sorry


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## gradyearl (Sep 2, 2015)

*for nautiboy*

hi...where are you reading about diamond complaints? please if you dont mind point out some of those places...i was thinking about participating in one of their programs but am worried about various posts claiming complaints...thanks


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## Passepartout (Sep 2, 2015)

gradyearl said:


> hi...where are you reading about diamond complaints? please if you dont mind point out some of those places...i was thinking about participating in one of their programs but am worried about various posts claiming complaints...thanks



That person has not been back to TUG in almost a year. You can click on their blue username and send them an email if you wish.

But simply reading a few (dozen) posts in the DRI forum will give you a pretty good idea the type of outfit you are dealing with. Out of curiosity, just what 'programs' are you considering? You'll find lots of DRI members/owners here to answer your questions.

Jim


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## artringwald (Sep 2, 2015)

gradyearl said:


> hi...where are you reading about diamond complaints? please if you dont mind point out some of those places...i was thinking about participating in one of their programs but am worried about various posts claiming complaints...thanks



You'll find plenty of complaints on this Trip Adviser thread:

http://www.tripadvisor.com/ShowTopic-g1-i10700-k4239296-Diamond_Resorts_International-Timeshares_Vacation_Rentals.html


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## Ty1on (Sep 2, 2015)

artringwald said:


> However, of the long list of resorts in the US Collection, most are affiliates and are extremely difficult to book. I've put in searches for any size unit for any length of stay at any time in the next year and found nothing at some of the resorts in the US Collection.



This is what happens when companies pick up affiliates not to truly grow the system or expand options for members, but to be able to brag about dots on the map.


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## Ty1on (Sep 2, 2015)

nautiboy said:


> First, an update.  Diamond got my rescission letter and I just got off an hour long call with them trying to talk me out of rescinding.  A couple points that he made:
> 
> - Unlike what the salesman in Florida told me, you can't just pay $3K to get into THE Club if you buy resale.  He said to get into the THE Club after purchasing from resale, you have to buy 50% more points at the normal retail price.
> 
> ...



Firstly, you can put your timeshare in your will.  You heirs can accept it, or refuse it.  Salesmen are trained to come up with responses that knock down barriers to the deal, whether they are true or not.

Secondly, why would you pay $15K for a DRI ownership that will be difficult to get rid of, just to unload the Monarch ownership that is difficlult to get rid of?


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