# Do owners in DRI Hawaii Collection often get assessed due to storm damage?



## GIGISailing (Jun 23, 2022)

I own US Collection points and have been offered to change over to Hawaii Collection because I need lower Maintenance Fees.  For example MF for Platinum with 50k points will be $12,600 in 2023.  But, if based on 40,000 points in Hawaii Collection the MF is only $7,370.  Savings of $4,770 for next year.  In order to do this I get HGV Max membership with 40,000 points and must pay $25,000.  What is the history of being assessed for storm damage in Hawaii Collection?


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## geist1223 (Jun 23, 2022)

When Point at Poipu had the Water Intrusion problem owners of weeks were hit with a special assessment. For Members in the Collection I believe this was primarily handled through MF. If you are looking for lower MF check out Cabo Azul. We switched from Hawaiian Collection to Cabo Azul several years ago for the lower MF.  We might not get Ocean Front at the Point at Poipu but we get Ocean View.


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## clifffaith (Jun 23, 2022)

We were brand new points owners and got hit with paying for the water intrusion. I don’t for a minute believe you will come out ahead on this. Changing owners in and out of US/Hawaii collections is a classic Diamond sales ploy.


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## youppi (Jun 23, 2022)

2022 MF for 50k points:
US Collection: $9,654.00
HI Collection: $9,265.42

Why will 2023 MF in US Collection jump from $9,654 to $12,600 (over 30% increase) ? My guest, it's a lie.


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## Eileen A. (Jun 23, 2022)

I'm wondering why they have you comparing 40,000 HI Collection to 50,000 US Collection or is this just a typo?
What exactly are they trying to sell you for $25,000?  Sounds like nothing.  Something is fishy!


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## NiteMaire (Jun 23, 2022)

GIGISailing said:


> 40,000 points in Hawaii Collection the MF is only $7,370.





youppi said:


> 2022 MF for 50k points:
> US Collection: $9,654.00
> HI Collection: $9,265.42


Let's presume your MF number for 40K HI Collection is correct, and also presume @youppi is correct for the US Collection (I'd believe him before believing what you were told).  The difference is really $2284/year.  That'll take you nearly 11 years to break even; do you plan on owning that long?. Yes, you'd have access to HGV Max and some benefits, but is it worth it?  If you desire is to decrease MF, then that may be the route for you (if you'll do this for at least 11 more years).  If you want access to HGVC resorts, it's less expensive to purchase HGVC resale.  You'll get 12-month access to your home resort, and 9-month access to other HGVC resorts (Max will only get you 6-month access); however, you'll also have an additional MF on top of your current one.


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## dougp26364 (Jun 23, 2022)

MF for 2023 haven’t been determined yet. The salesman is lying to you so he can make a sale at your expense.

last month we had a Spinnaker salesmen attempt to sell us a “deed back” clause for over $7,000. His rational was MF’s plus II membership fee’s plus II exchange fees have a historical rate increase of 13%. I can’t figure it if he thought I was stupid or really bad at math. I’m over 20 years of owning timeshare, including owning with DRI. I have NEVER had a MF increase of 13%. For your MF’s to go from  $9,600 to over $12,000 (assuming the numbers are correct) is inconceivable 

 When DRI bought out Sunterra, there were some really big fee hikes for a couple of years before settling down m, but Sunterra allowed many resorts to fall into disrepair.

Id ask the salesman what the SA was at POP. Those numbers where truly staggering.

My advice, run, don’t walk, away from what looks like a very bad deal


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## artringwald (Jun 23, 2022)

For your reference, this is how much the Point at Poipu maintenance fees increased for a 2 bedroom deeded oceanfront week. It would be 15,500 points to book the same unit, and it's what the HOA charges the Hawaii Collection for each the units that are in the trust.

Year              M. Fees     % Change
1/1/2008     $1,181.15     
1/1/2009     $1,413.84     20%
1/1/2010     $1,413.18     0%
1/1/2011     $1,353.32     -4%
1/1/2012     $1,353.32     0%
1/1/2013     $1,428.28     6%
1/1/2014     $1,502.98     5%
1/1/2015     $1,533.35     2%
1/1/2016     $1,693.73     10%
1/1/2017     $1,762.10     4%
1/1/2018     $1,673.45     -5%
1/1/2019     $1,755.68     5%
1/1/2020     $1,812.08     3%
1/1/2021     $1,812.93     0%
1/1/2022     $1,858.92     3%

1/1/2012    water intrusion one time charge   
    $5,893.32 per interval/week


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## youppi (Jun 24, 2022)

artringwald said:


> For your reference, this is how much the Point at Poipu maintenance fees increased for a 2 bedroom deeded oceanfront week. It would be 15,500 points to book the same unit, and it's what the HOA charges the Hawaii Collection for each the units that are in the trust.
> 
> Year              M. Fees     % Change
> 1/1/2008     $1,181.15
> ...


Hi Art,
I don't have the same values I got from you and others in the past for most years.
Could you double check your new values please before I update my spreadsheet with your new values because I double checked my spreadsheet with the values I received in the past and I made no mistakes when I copied them in my spreadsheet ?
Some differences seem to be the ARDA-ROC fee ($5 or $7) that you may have included this time but 2015 with a difference of $100 looks like a typo but I have no idea which one is the correct value.
Thanks for your time

```
.               your          mine       diff
1/1/2008     $1,181.15      $1,181.15
1/1/2009     $1,413.84      $1,413.18  <- $0.66
1/1/2010     $1,413.18      $1,413.18
1/1/2011     $1,353.32      $1,353.32
1/1/2012     $1,353.32      $1,354.28  <- $0.96
1/1/2013     $1,428.28      $1,423.28  <- $5
1/1/2014     $1,502.98      $1,497.98  <- $5
1/1/2015     $1,533.35      $1,633.35  <- $100
1/1/2016     $1,693.73      $1,688.73  <- $5
1/1/2017     $1,762.10      $1,755.10  <- $7
1/1/2018     $1,673.45      $1,666.45  <- $7
1/1/2019     $1,755.68      $1,748.68  <- $7
1/1/2020     $1,812.08      I didn't have it. Did you include the ARDA-ROC ($7) in the value ?
1/1/2021     $1,812.93      I didn't have it. Did you include the ARDA-ROC ($7) in the value ?
1/1/2022     $1,858.92      I didn't have it. Did you include the ARDA-ROC ($7) in the value ?
```


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## artringwald (Jun 24, 2022)

youppi said:


> Hi Art,
> I don't have the same values I got from you and others in the past for most years.
> Could you double check your new values please before I update my spreadsheet with your new values because I double checked my spreadsheet with the values I received in the past and I made no mistakes when I copied them in my spreadsheet ?
> Some differences seem to be the ARDA-ROC fee ($5 or $7) that you may have included this time but 2015 with a difference of $100 looks like a typo but I have no idea which one is the correct value.
> ...


Good catch! 2012-2015 was tricky because they were including the special assessment in the statement, and my 2015 total was wrong. It should be $1,628.35 without ARDA, or $1,633.35 with it.
2009 - $1,413.84 with the $5 ARDA
2012 - $1,353.32 with the $5 ARDA
2020 - $1819.08 with the $7 ARDA
2021 - $1819.93 with the $7 ARDA
2022 - $1858.92 with the $7 ARDA (I corrected my own records to exclude ARDA since I stopped paying it in 2013)

Thanks for all the data you keep and share!


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## youppi (Jun 24, 2022)

artringwald said:


> Good catch! 2012-2015 was tricky because they were including the special assessment in the statement, and my 2015 total was wrong. It should be $1,628.35 without ARDA, or $1,633.35 with it.
> 2009 - $1,413.84 with the $5 ARDA
> 2012 - $1,353.32 with the $5 ARDA
> 2020 - $1819.08 with the $7 ARDA
> ...


Did I enter all data correctly ?



Thanks


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## artringwald (Jun 24, 2022)

youppi said:


> Did I enter all data correctly ?
> View attachment 58814
> Thanks


Looks good!


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## T_R_Oglodyte (Jun 24, 2022)

This doesn't make sense.  Hawaii Collection has traditionally had higher annual fees per point than US. For years, a standard pitch by Sunterra and DRI, when owners expressed concern about MFs, was to sell them on converting from Hawaii Collection to US Collection. Conversely, if the person was a US Collection owner complaining about lack of availability in Hawaii, they would pitch converting from US collection to Hawaii collection.

******

Re the Poipu water damage assessment.  We own both a deeded week at Poipu as well as Hawaii Collection points.  DRI sales staff, trying to convince us to give up our deeded week, liked to point out how we were charged the water damage assessment fee on our deeded week, but the Hawaii Collection points owners didn't pay the fee.  They seemed oblivious to my response that we had paid a proportionate share in our Hawaii points because the Collection still had to pay the damage assessment fee for the units it owned, and that cast was passed on to the Collection owners based on points owned. 

And that gets to a key consideration - when you own in a collection, the impacts of special assessments are distributed across the Collection.  It's like insurance.  Because the Collection has ownersnhip in multiple resorts, the odds of at least one resort in the collection levy a special assessment is higher than if you owned at only one resort.  But the impact on annual fees when a SA occurs is larger if you only own at one resort. 

So, you need to look at storm vulnerability for the Collection as a whole.  

*************

My take is that overall Hawaii has less vulnerability to major storm (i.e., hurricane) damage than the eastern US.  That's because of climate differences.  Hurricanes are driven by warm ocean temperatures near the tropics, and overall the central Pacific Ocean has lower water temperatures in the tropics than the Atlantic, and particularly the Caribbean.


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## youppi (Jun 25, 2022)

T_R_Oglodyte said:


> This doesn't make sense.  Hawaii Collection has traditionally had higher annual fees per point than US. For years, a standard pitch by Sunterra and DRI, when owners expressed concern about MFs, was to sell them on converting from Hawaii Collection to US Collection. Conversely, if the person was a US Collection owner complaining about lack of availability in Hawaii, they would pitch converting from US collection to Hawaii collection.
> 
> ******
> 
> ...


In 2018, the HI Collection got a big MF decrease and almost closed the gap with US Collection MF and since 2020, the HI Collection MF is lower than US Collection.
The 2022 HI Collection MF is still lower than in 2017.


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## artringwald (Jun 25, 2022)

There could be a big assessment for Ka'anapali Beach Club if they can ever get a permanent fix approved for the beach erosion. I think it's odd to call it the Hawaii Collection when only 2 of the 7 resorts are in Hawaii.


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