# Kaplan SSAT Private Tutoring



## KCI (Feb 21, 2013)

Anyone have any experience with Kaplan SSAT Private Tutoring?  Our son just called and told us our granddaughter will be using this service this summer to prepare for private highschool admission.  We will pay the $2250. for her to go.  Is the private tutoring better than classroom experience with other students?  Is it worth the $$.  Thanks for any info you can provide.  Linda


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## bogey21 (Feb 21, 2013)

All this tutoring stuff (and spending over $2,000 for it) makes me wonder.  Back when I was in school the school didn't prep us and we didn't pay to prep for the SST.  We just showed up and let the chips fall.  It was simple.  Those of us who were smart enough to get into good schools did, and those of us who weren't, didn't.

George

PS When my Son had to take exams to see if certain Private High Schools would accept him, we didn't do anything extra to prepare him.  He didn't get accepted into one of the schools he wanted and it was probably for the best.  If tutoring had gotten him over the hump, I think he may have been overwhelmed by the workload and don't think he could have kept up with it.


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## ciscogizmo1 (Feb 21, 2013)

I went to a seminar hosted by Kaplan for SAT and ACT preparation and they did not recommend the private tutoring route.  

First they said that the student should do the regular Classroom prep class and then, take the exam.  Then, if the student didn't do well on the exam to consider the private route.   It might be different for admissions for a high school as I don't know how many chances you have to take the exam.  

Personally, if my child need tutoring to get into a high school then, I would think they would need tutoring throughout high school and that this school might not be a good fit academically.  But I'm not sure how stiff the competition is where your granddaughter lives.  I would not pay it but I have several good public school options in my neighborhood.

Just to give a guide, I pay $50 an hour for a pre-Calculus tutor.


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## KCI (Feb 21, 2013)

My granddaughter is very bright, does exceptionally well in her Montessori school and in all her extra curricular endeavors.  However, her mother wants her to go to a very exclusive and expensive school in MA and her mother feels that private tutoring will be the way to ensure she is accepted.  What can a grandma do?


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## ciscogizmo1 (Feb 21, 2013)

KCI said:


> My granddaughter is very bright, does exceptionally well in her Montessori school and in all her extra curricular endeavors.  However, her mother wants her to go to a very exclusive and expensive school in MA and her mother feels that private tutoring will be the way to ensure she is accepted.  What can a grandma do?


 Not much... I'm assuming since it is an elite school tutoring is probably required.   Are you paying for it?   

We really don't have that type of situation here where I live.  Basically, if you have the "money" you can go any where.  I don't think the competition is as stiff especially since the economy is bad right now.


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## BocaBum99 (Feb 21, 2013)

KCI said:


> My granddaughter is very bright, does exceptionally well in her Montessori school and in all her extra curricular endeavors.  However, her mother wants her to go to a very exclusive and expensive school in MA and her mother feels that private tutoring will be the way to ensure she is accepted.  What can a grandma do?



bright is relative to the population.  If your granddaughter wants to go to an elite boarding school in the North East, then she should take SSAT prep unless she is already scoring in the 95%+ on all 3 tests.

These schools are ultra competitive.  They give you a solid path to Ivy league.  But, it may not buy them much in the long run.   Kids who are going to do well will do well wherever they go.   It just may take them longer.


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## PStreet1 (Feb 21, 2013)

Having done some tutoring for the SAT, and having had talks with Kaplan about doing it for them, I really think the best route to success--PROVIDED THE STUDENT IS DISCIPLINED AND SELF-MOTIVATED--is the rigorous use of a computer program.  If the student won't devote 30 minutes-60 minutes nearly every day to it, though, it won't do any good.  

It's much more intense, and it's totally self-paced so what she doesn't need, she doesn't waste time on.  It's easy to review; it's easy to go over the tips--everything about it is ideal, but only for the self-motivated and disciplined.


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## vacationhopeful (Feb 21, 2013)

And WHO is going to PAY for the very exclusive and expensive PRIVATE high school? And all the extras that a school like that requires (either implied or peer pressured)?

Oh, I understand there many be "financial aid" or "needed based"  assistance ... but it doesn't include the right summer camps, dance classes, weekend activities plus add in social items, like a European tour, Carribean in the winter break, indoor tennis etc.

And you ask, "What can a Grandma do?" Check the checkbook at the YOUR door. Decide FIRST where YOUR dollar limit on contributing to this (escalating train wreck, IMHO) is. 

I prefer spend quality time with the next generation --- as one-on-one time is PRICELESS.


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## KCI (Feb 21, 2013)

Our son and his wife will be paying the $47,000 per year tuition...we have not offered and will not offer to pay those costs.
We agree it is an out of control situation but it's their life and as long as they feel they can afford it, it's their choice.  We are concerned that they may be biting off more than they can afford and have suggested same to son and he, too, has reservations.  BUT wife is the one who makes the most $$ and what she wants, she gets...end of story.


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## BocaBum99 (Feb 21, 2013)

KCI said:


> Our son and his wife will be paying the $47,000 per year tuition...we have not offered and will not offer to pay those costs.
> We agree it is an out of control situation but it's their life and as long as they feel they can afford it, it's their choice.  We are concerned that they may be biting off more than they can afford and have suggested same to son and he, too, has reservations.  BUT wife is the one who makes the most $$ and what she wants, she gets...end of story.



I send my kids to private school and I would NEVER pay $47,000 for high school tuition.  Sorry, but nobody really does anything that important in high school.   Usually, these tuitions include a trip somewhere that costs between $5-10k.

By the way, Harvard College tuition is only $37,576.   Tell me how much more education your grand daughter is going to get in a top High School that warrants a price tag more than the world renowned Harvard College?


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## DazedandConfused (Feb 21, 2013)

KCI said:


> Anyone have any experience with Kaplan SSAT Private Tutoring?  Our son just called and told us our granddaughter will be using this service this summer to prepare for private highschool admission.  We will pay the $2250. for her to go.  Is the private tutoring better than classroom experience with other students?  Is it worth the $$.  Thanks for any info you can provide.  Linda



For the SSAT, if you want the best possible scores, you need to prepare for that test and that is an acceptable rate for this type of training.

Walking into this test blind will assure a below potential score.



bogey21 said:


> All this tutoring stuff (and spending over $2,000 for it) makes me wonder.  Back when I was in school the school didn't prep us and we didn't pay to prep for the SST.  We just showed up and let the chips fall.  It was simple.  Those of us who were smart enough to get into good schools did, and those of us who weren't, didn't.
> 
> George
> 
> PS When my Son had to take exams to see if certain Private High Schools would accept him, we didn't do anything extra to prepare him.  He didn't get accepted into one of the schools he wanted and it was probably for the best.  If tutoring had gotten him over the hump, I think he may have been overwhelmed by the workload and don't think he could have kept up with it.



Your advice is appropriate for 1970 or 1980, but not 2013. No offense, but it is much more competitive now to get into University.

Also, the OP is asking about the SSAT (high school entrance) not the SAT (College admission).

With some of the acceptance rates in the single digit or low double digits, every opportunity must be taken.



KCI said:


> Our son and his wife will be paying the $47,000 per year tuition...we have not offered and will not offer to pay those costs.
> We agree it is an out of control situation but it's their life and as long as they feel they can afford it, it's their choice.  We are concerned that they may be biting off more than they can afford and have suggested same to son and he, too, has reservations.  BUT wife is the one who makes the most $$ and what she wants, she gets...end of story.



The schools you are looking at probably also include boarding, meals, books, etc. This may seem like an outrageous price, but that is the going rate for the elite prep schools.

You are probably looking at Phillips Exeter Academy or Andover or a similar school. If so, you better bet that anyone applying to those programs will be preparing for the SSAT to score as high as possible.

Good luck...you will need it


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## spirits (Feb 21, 2013)

*That was then,  is this now*

Funny, I work in a high school and the most motivated students are the ones who have a clear focus and the discipline to use their time well.  They pay attention in class, listen to the "advice" I give them.  If I suggest they preread the novel before we discuss it in class, they have it preread.  They get assignments in on time.  If they don't understand they ask.  They never complain about the workload.  My assignments are not just work that gets done as quickly as possible.  They actually take the time to approach the work as an adult and do prethinking and extra research on their own time to get a fuller concept on what is covered in class.  In other words they are young professionals and are serious about their goals and how to get there.  Their marks are in the high 90's and a result of the effort they put in.
I have other students who are happy to just do the work assigned as quickly as possible.  They are the 60-70% student and to tell the truth that is what I was for a lot of time when I was at school.  I was not cut out for ivy league schools though and that kind of money would have been a total waste of time for me.
It sounds like that mother just might have the best interests of the child in mind. The competition and expectations after ivy league is brutal and high achievers are exactly that, high achievers.  If the child has it in her to be one, then it is a good match.  If the child feels pressured to succeed at her mother's goals, the issues will come and come quickly.  In my opinion, the grandparents should have some sort of idea what kind of person their granddaughter is.  If she is the first type, then the Sat prep will probably be worth it.  If the second then they might be wasting their money and will have to think about what they are paying for.
Full disclosure,  I am not a grandparent yet, but I have enough sense to stay out of my son's marriage.  My DIL has the right to run her family as she wants.  And it is None of My Business.....no matter how hard that may be to follow


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## wackymother (Feb 21, 2013)

BocaBum99 said:


> I send my kids to private school and I would NEVER pay $47,000 for high school tuition.  Sorry, but nobody really does anything that important in high school.   Usually, these tuitions include a trip somewhere that costs between $5-10k.
> 
> By the way, Harvard College tuition is only $37,576.   Tell me how much more education your grand daughter is going to get in a top High School that warrants a price tag more than the world renowned Harvard College?



Not to defend what these parents are doing--but that figure for Harvard does not include room and board. That's tuition only. With room and board and assorted fees, Harvard is probably closer to $55,000 per year. I believe KCI is talking about a boarding school, so the $47,000 would include room and board as well as tuition. 

As another poster said, elite private boarding schools cost what they cost, and there are enough parents who see benefit in sending their children to these schools that entrance is extremely competitive. It's not right for me and my family, but if it's right for KCI's family, that's their business.


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## KCI (Feb 21, 2013)

I don't believe my granddaughter will be boarding at these schools...two of the schools she is looking at are Lawrence Academy and Concord Academy..and the $47,000 quote was from our son.  I am astonished that anyone pays that much $$ for highschool but...again, it's their call, not ours.


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## wackymother (Feb 21, 2013)

KCI said:


> I don't believe my granddaughter will be boarding at these schools...two of the schools she is looking at are Lawrence Academy and Concord Academy..and the $47,000 quote was from our son.  I am astonished that anyone pays that much $$ for highschool but...again, it's their call, not ours.



Yeah, it's crazy. We have friends whose daughter is applying to several elite prep schools, some boarding and some not. She is in eighth grade now and has already taken the SSATs. She did very, very well, and she's first in her class at school, but the parents are not at all sure that she will be admitted to the schools they like. The irony is that the family owns a home in a town that has one of the top-ranked high schools in New Jersey, so she could go there if they wanted her to. But they feel it's not good enough. 

Regarding the test-prep tutoring, what we've heard is that if your child is already up there in terms of numbers, on sample tests or previous seatings, then the child will need one-on-one tutoring to get those last few points. Whether going to a test-prep business is the best route for that one-on-one tutoring, or finding private tutors is better, I don't know. Compared to private tutoring, I suspect that the $2250 is a bargain. 

I have to ask--why they are asking you to pay for the test prep? If they can swing $47,000 for tuition, what's another couple of thousand for test prep? I don't mean that in a mean way, but if it were me, it would be worth that much not to be discussing it with my parents.


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## bogey21 (Feb 21, 2013)

DazedandConfused said:


> Your advice is appropriate for 1970 or 1980, but not 2013. No offense, but it is much more competitive now to get into University.



I know i am living in the past but as one who attended 7 Universities before graduating my view is that all you have to do is get into one decent University and excel.  After that you will accepted almost anywhere as a transfer student.  Straight "A"s doing college work speaks volumes!

George


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## KCI (Feb 21, 2013)

Wackymother...you would have to understand my daughter in law to find a reason for asking us to pay the fee.  She believes we should be contributing to our granddaughter's education in an ongoing fashion.  Our granddaughter has been in a Montessori school since preschool.  They are currently paying $20,000 + a year for that...now she wants to take on a $47,000 a year bill for 4 years of highschool, followed by who knows how much for college...but as I said she expects us to contribute....our advice to son has always been to never get into any financial dealings that you are not capable of paying for yourself...do not expect others to pay for what you have signed up for but his wife thinks because we are all family, we have an OBLIGATION to pay our fair share for education. We have steadfastedly refused to take the bait with her and find that an occasional contribution like this is something we can justify to ourselves as a gift towards our granddaughter's future without emptying our bank account.  Funny thing is if daughter in law wasn't so demanding, we would probably have volunteered to help out more than we have, but her mindset just sets us off and she loses in our estimation.


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## PStreet1 (Feb 21, 2013)

The high school I taught in was consistently in the list of top high schools in the U.S.  We sent a pretty good percentage of our graduates to Ivy League colleges.  No one ever needed prep work that was beyond the A.P. level of the classes we offered.  Students consistently came back to say they were well-prepared.  I believe if the student is qualified, getting into the desired colleges is fully doable.  I retired 5 years ago, but still have many friends still teaching; nothing has changed:  kids are still leaving that school and heading for the Ivys or next tier colleges.  Most kids I knew didn't take SAT prep courses, and we still turned out the highest number of National Merit Scholars in the state.

If the mother is determined to do it this way, obviously, nothing will change her mind, but if the child has the ability, it is truly unnecessary--imo.


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## DazedandConfused (Feb 22, 2013)

bogey21 said:


> I know i am living in the past but as one who attended 7 Universities before graduating my view is that all you have to do is get into one decent University and excel.  After that you will accepted almost anywhere as a transfer student.  Straight "A"s doing college work speaks volumes!
> 
> George



Be glad you graduated several decades ago, because it is hard enough for a Tier 1 school graduate to get a job...anyone jumping thru 7 colleges before graduation these days is probably washing dishes or flipping burgers.

Also, grades are less relevant as a straight A student graduating with a poetry major or 18th century anthropology major is less employable than a B or C student with an engineer major.



KCI said:


> Wackymother...you would have to understand my daughter in law to find a reason for asking us to pay the fee.  She believes we should be contributing to our granddaughter's education in an ongoing fashion.  Our granddaughter has been in a Montessori school since preschool.  They are currently paying $20,000 + a year for that...now she wants to take on a $47,000 a year bill for 4 years of highschool, followed by who knows how much for college...but as I said she expects us to contribute....our advice to son has always been to never get into any financial dealings that you are not capable of paying for yourself...do not expect others to pay for what you have signed up for but his wife thinks because we are all family, we have an OBLIGATION to pay our fair share for education. We have steadfastedly refused to take the bait with her and find that an occasional contribution like this is something we can justify to ourselves as a gift towards our granddaughter's future without emptying our bank account.  Funny thing is if daughter in law wasn't so demanding, we would probably have volunteered to help out more than we have, but her mindset just sets us off and she loses in our estimation.



I think you identified the "problem" here....your Daughter in Law. 

Seriously, there is no 'guarantee" that the best most elite prep high school will get you into an Ivy league school (but it does increase the odds) and then there is no guarantee that going to an Ivy undergrad will get you into an Ivy graduate program or will get you the best or highest paying job.

It sounds like your Daughter in law has - "Harvard Envy"

What university did she attend and what was her degree in and has she ever worked a job in her life. In other words, has she contributed anything financial to her own family.

One of my associates has a super bright daughter that is on the same track as your DIL wants to follow and when I asked this teen what college she wanted to go to she said "Harvard or Stanford" and then when I asked what she wants to do after she graduates, she shocked me....she said "I am going to be a stay home mom like my mother"....game over for that discussion.

Not that there is anything wrong with stay at home moms or the desire to go to the best prep school or best college, it is FAR greater to discover your passion or true calling rather than expect an elite school to open the doors for the rest of your life.

Are there any more grand kids in your family or is this it as this is a super expensive road to follow.


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## ciscogizmo1 (Feb 22, 2013)

Sounds like you need to pay it to keep peace in the family.  I'd probably pay for the test prep class.  Btw, my jaw is still hitting the floor on the tuition at that high school.  It is totally out my league.  Good luck to your grand daughter.


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## siesta (Feb 22, 2013)

KCI said:


> Our son and his wife will be paying the $47,000 per year tuition...we have not offered and will not offer to pay those costs.
> We agree it is an out of control situation but it's their life and as long as they feel they can afford it, it's their choice.  We are concerned that they may be biting off more than they can afford and have suggested same to son and he, too, has reservations.  BUT wife is the one who makes the most $$ and what she wants, she gets...end of story.


 this is the dumbest thing I have ever heard. plain and simple. I went to a private jesuit high school, which tuition is currently under $14,000, I then went to an Ivy League University for undergraduate studies which tuition is currently around $42000, and the law school I attended is ranked 5th in the nation, and tuition is just under $50k a year.

That high school is up there with my bachelors and juris doctorate programs, which by the way are some of the most expensive in the country.  Going to that high school (I'm guessing New York State?) will not give that kid that significant of a leg up relative to that tuition cost. Majority of kids at the elite universities I attended were not from schools like those, and the ones that did go to schools like that were from "legacy" families, and their grades didnt matter anyways. Rant over.

Now back to your OP. SSAT prep is not necessary.  SAT and ACT prep courses are not that necessary, high school should prepare them enough and basic test taking strategies can be found in various books and online.  Now, when and if it comes time to take the MCATs or LSAT I would recommend prep courses, GMAT it depends.  Kaplan LSAT prep course was helpful for me.  And my advice is not outdated, im an early 30 something.

Now, if the kid is a poor test taker, that may be a different story, however if he/she is a strong student, its not.


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## vacationhopeful (Feb 22, 2013)

OP clearly stated that DIL is the higher bread earner in her family. I think this might be the "one and only child" and "I do everything to make sure my child has the best of the best" for the DIL.

Also, DIL feels the "extended family" should be forking over $$$ to help cover her plans for her child. 

My older brother MARRIED a woman who just finish her sophmore year at Princeton U (yes, an Ivy). My brother had graduated Princeton a year before the marriage and was on his 2nd job when her tuition bill came in for the start of her junior year at Princeton. SHE sent him down to get _the money _out of my dad for* her* college tuition - who had 2 other children currently in college and another 2 starting college in the next 9 years. My parents were in their mid 50's and my mom was a secretary in a small business. I was a fly on the wall, my dad was not making it easy as he was dumbfounded, but my dad finally stated:

"I have a responsiblility to pay for college for MY children. While I said I care for your WIFE as if she was one of the family, she is YOUR financial responsibility. IF YOU and HER can not afford the Princeton tuition bill, she should go to a college that you can afford or work until you all have the money for her to go back to Princeton."

She delivered USPS mail parttime the next 12 months until the financial determination forms used for financial aid qualitified her on THEIR income, and left, dumped my brother 7 months after she graduated from Princeton and had her job with Chase on Wall Street. She moved in her stuff into her new BF's Manhatten apartment (whom she had been dating for 6 months). And my brother was left with all the debt as she would be responsible for her college loans.

Been there ... seen the damaged ... I truly feel the OP is in a NO WIN situation with the DIL. 

OP - I know you are trying to draw that line in the sand. And you have to, just as my Dad had to. You might not have other children to educate, but your have your elder years to provide for yourself and your husband. And you just love the granddaughter ... just remember, love should be from the heart and not the checkbook.


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## wackymother (Feb 22, 2013)

KCI said:


> Wackymother...you would have to understand my daughter in law to find a reason for asking us to pay the fee.  She believes we should be contributing to our granddaughter's education in an ongoing fashion.  Our granddaughter has been in a Montessori school since preschool.  They are currently paying $20,000 + a year for that...now she wants to take on a $47,000 a year bill for 4 years of highschool, followed by who knows how much for college...but as I said she expects us to contribute....our advice to son has always been to never get into any financial dealings that you are not capable of paying for yourself...do not expect others to pay for what you have signed up for but his wife thinks because we are all family, we have an OBLIGATION to pay our fair share for education. We have steadfastedly refused to take the bait with her and find that an occasional contribution like this is something we can justify to ourselves as a gift towards our granddaughter's future without emptying our bank account.  Funny thing is if daughter in law wasn't so demanding, we would probably have volunteered to help out more than we have, but her mindset just sets us off and she loses in our estimation.




I sympathize with you; you're in a difficult position. I would just pay the $2250 since your DIL has decided it's "best." You wouldn't want to suggest something else and then have your granddaughter not make the best scores, because it might come down to you being blamed for not paying for the prep course. Good luck with everything!


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## Elan (Feb 22, 2013)

siesta said:


> this is the dumbest thing I have ever heard. plain and simple. I went to a private jesuit high school, which tuition is currently under $14,000, I then went to an Ivy League University for undergraduate studies which tuition is currently around $42000, and the law school I attended is ranked 5th in the nation, and tuition is just under $50k a year.
> 
> That high school is up there with my bachelors and juris doctorate programs, which by the way are some of the most expensive in the country.  Going to that high school (I'm guessing New York State?) will not give that kid that significant of a leg up relative to that tuition cost. *Majority of kids at the elite universities I attended were not from schools like those, and the ones that did go to schools like that were from "legacy" families, and their grades didnt matter anyways*. Rant over.



  Well said.  Typically, the only people that think this stuff matters are those that came from that background.  It's "what they do".    

  Motivated students will do well anywhere, and poor students will do poorly anywhere.  No amount of money changes that.


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## lvhmbh (Feb 22, 2013)

I won't get into the discussion re whether you should pay the fee for school but...we are sending our 16 year old to a very well rated private prep school.  Another parent suggested the tutoring and we didn't use Kaplan but we checked out another program.  We met with the school first and they told us where we needed to be for the PSAT (his grades in Middle School were exceptional and in the advanced program).  He took a sample PSAT with the tutoring company and they told us what he needed to work on - we used them and I am not sorry.  He was accepted.  His first year he had a hard time with his Algebra teacher (not the only one) and wasn't really "getting it".  This from a kid who never got below A+ in any advanced math he took.  Over the summer he agreed - no whining - to got back to Huntington to be tutored in Algebra.  He is now getting an A consistently in Algebra II.  Just my experience.


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## siesta (Feb 22, 2013)

Elan said:


> Well said.  Typically, the only people that think this stuff matters are those that came from that background.  It's "what they do".
> 
> Motivated students will do well anywhere, and poor students will do poorly anywhere.  No amount of money changes that.


Exactly, a motivated student in a decent school system will excel far more than a mediocre student in an excellent school system. And again excellent school systems don't cost $47k, these are schools for the rich to be with other rich kids. Or those that require a high level of security because of who their parents are.

Additionally, the OP has already hinted that her son and DIL may be biting off more they can chew with tuition cost, which would indicate to me that they are well off (6 figure salary) but far from rich.  Let me tell you, the last thing you want for that child is to be the "poor kid" at a school like that.  I had friends when I was at Yale that went to private schools in Manhattan with tuition costs in line with what OP is referring to, and lets just say the perspectives gained and the value system encouraged is quite different.

On another note, it has been said regarding marriage and families, "that the man is the head, and the woman is the neck that turns the head from side to side." Unfortunately, often when the woman is the bread winner, she is both the head and neck.  Probably why my mother (old fashioned) always said to make sure I made more money than my wife so I'd never be under her thumb.


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## DazedandConfused (Feb 22, 2013)

siesta said:


> this is the dumbest thing I have ever heard. plain and simple. I went to a private jesuit high school, which tuition is currently under $14,000
> 
> Now back to your OP. SSAT prep is not necessary.  SAT and ACT prep courses are not that necessary, high school should prepare them enough and basic test taking strategies can be found in various books and online.  .



Seriously, you are an Ivy grad, attorney, and _*this is the Dumbest thing you ever heard*_ ???

I know lawyers are good at shoveling BS, but I will bet you $100 that this is NOT the dumbest thing you ever heard.

How is it that a family member wants to send her daughter to an elite prep school for $47k that probably includes food, housing, books, etc the Dumbest thing you ever heard.

It amazes me that people with Ivy credentials would discourage someone else from trying to break into that elite club.

Also, the Jesuit schools are still an awesome bargain, but may not be so great for non-Catholics.

Books may have worked for you to prepare for the SAT, but THIS IS FOR THE SSAT and we are talking about an 8th grader with minimal test taking experience. The parent wants to give her the best edge and the private tutoring is probably her best choice to get the highest score.



wackymother said:


> I sympathize with you; you're in a difficult position. I would just pay the $2250 since your DIL has decided it's "best." You wouldn't want to suggest something else and then have your granddaughter not make the best scores, because it might come down to you being blamed for not paying for the prep course. Good luck with everything!



*Here is my GREAT idea....offer to pay 1/2 the tutoring cost and if that is met with resistance then pull your offer and pay nothing.*

I don't know your financial situation, but there is no shame in saying we are saving for retirement or got hammered in the stock market or real estate market or are on a fixed budget.



Elan said:


> Well said.  Typically, the only people that think this stuff matters are those that came from that background.  It's "what they do".
> 
> Motivated students will do well anywhere, and poor students will do poorly anywhere.  No amount of money changes that.



I disagree....a kid that starts out life with a $100 million dollar trust fund that pays a set amount each year or someone that inherits a multi-million dollar family business will generally do pretty well.



siesta said:


> Probably why my mother (old fashioned) always said to make sure I made more money than my wife so I'd never be under her thumb.



:hysterical::rofl:


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## vacationhopeful (Feb 22, 2013)

DazedandConfused said:


> ....
> *Here is my GREAT idea....offer to pay 1/2 the tutoring cost and if that is met with resistance then pull your offer and pay nothing.*
> 
> I don't know your financial situation, but there is no shame in saying we are saving for retirement or got hammered in the stock market or real estate market or are on a fixed budget.
> ...



I fully agree with these stands on the issues in this thread - 50% cost matching is better than having an axe held over your neck with a "You did NOTHING to HELP your GRANDDAUGHTER!" sign. Make a photocopy of the check - before you give it to DIL - she might have a memory issue in the future.


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## KCI (Feb 22, 2013)

We have already agreed to pay the entire amount...daughter in law never speaks to us...just son and granddaughter.  Fine with us!


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## Elan (Feb 22, 2013)

DazedandConfused said:


> I disagree....a kid that starts out life with a $100 million dollar trust fund that pays a set amount each year or someone that inherits a multi-million dollar family business will generally do pretty well.



  My comment was made in the context of the thread - meaning money spent on education.


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## DazedandConfused (Feb 22, 2013)

KCI said:


> We have already agreed to pay the entire amount...daughter in law never speaks to us...just son and granddaughter.  Fine with us!



wow...do you need some appreciative relatives....my wife will cook a great meal for you and send you birthday and christmas cards, I will carry your bags on vacation and arrange your car to be detailed, my kids will call you nanna and give you hugs when they see you.

Why does she never speak to you.....she sounds like a strange bird.



Elan said:


> My comment was made in the context of the thread - meaning money spent on education.



Money spend on education is perhaps the best use of money that I know as it pays lifelong dividends.

I am not sure that you are getting $47,000 x 4 years of worth for a high school education and then spending another $60,000 x  4 years for private college, but it sure beats going to a crappy public school followed by attending a community college.


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## BocaBum99 (Feb 22, 2013)

siesta said:


> this is the dumbest thing I have ever heard. plain and simple. I went to a private jesuit high school, which tuition is currently under $14,000, I then went to an Ivy League University for undergraduate studies which tuition is currently around $42000, and the law school I attended is ranked 5th in the nation, and tuition is just under $50k a year.
> 
> That high school is up there with my bachelors and juris doctorate programs, which by the way are some of the most expensive in the country.  Going to that high school (I'm guessing New York State?) will not give that kid that significant of a leg up relative to that tuition cost. Majority of kids at the elite universities I attended were not from schools like those, and the ones that did go to schools like that were from "legacy" families, and their grades didnt matter anyways. Rant over.
> 
> ...



I can't see paying $47,000 per year for high school.  It's just too much money for what you get in return.   If I had a net worth of $10M, I still don't think I would be willing to pay that much for high school.

That said, I do pay $18,900 for my kids to go to a top tier prep school.  I won't call it elite because it is a half step lower than a Phillips Exeter.  I never thought I'd be willing to pay that much tuition until I got experience with the school.  My children are way better prepared for college than I was coming out of my very weak public high school.  And, their school is well regarded enough that if they make top 10% in their class, they are a lock for being admitted into an Ivy League or other top 15 University.   I am very pleased at the preparation they are getting for that price.

Having done it the hard way myself, I believe a kid who has no advantages and excels at a top 30 University will do better than a trust fund kid who gets every advantage and is handed admission into Harvard.   At the end of the day, it's how much work you are willing to put into something that determines how much you will get out of it.


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## siesta (Feb 22, 2013)

DazedandConfused said:


> Seriously, you are an Ivy grad, attorney, and _*this is the Dumbest thing you ever heard*_ ???
> 
> I know lawyers are good at shoveling BS, but I will bet you $100 that this is NOT the dumbest thing you ever heard.


 it was a figure of speech, sorry I can't be as eloquent as you desire while im typing with my two index fingers on an ipad riding the bumpy metra 

By the way, I'm willing to bet that $47k includes nothing but tuition, and maybe a meal.

Additionally,yes someone with ivy cred. is specifically telling you that a $47k prep school isn't going to make or break a student in the admission process. That tuition is that high because its purposely meant to be exclusive, not because it prepares students better then any other reputable prep school, or a motivated student from a decent public ed. system. Believe it or not. Even if you see figures illustrating how many of those kids from exclusive schools go on to top10 schools, just know that many had ins. A dirty little secret (read: well known fact) in the ivy league is, its not always what you know, but who you know.


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## BocaBum99 (Feb 22, 2013)

DazedandConfused said:


> Money spend on education is perhaps the best use of money that I know as it pays lifelong dividends.
> 
> I am not sure that you are getting $47,000 x 4 years of worth for a high school education and then spending another $60,000 x  4 years for private college, but it sure beats going to a crappy public school followed by attending a community college.



I disagree.  If you are an art major in college and you spent $240,000 for Private University, you did it for fun.  It's not the best use of $240k.  In fact, given the taxpayer subsidies, it's a total waste of money.


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## vacationhopeful (Feb 22, 2013)

siesta said:


> .... That tuition is that high because its purposely meant to be exclusive, not because it prepares students better then any other reputable prep school, or a motivated student from a decent public ed. system. Believe it or not. Even if you see figures illustrating how many of those kids from exclusive schools go on to top10 schools, just know that many had ins. A dirty little secret (read: well known fact) in the ivy league is, its not always what you know, but who you know.



It used to be called by young ladies' mothers as being in the right place, with the proper manners, dressed as a young lady, so they could  "marry well". Being pretty helped, but if Daddy or Grandfather had enough money or influence, plain was not a deal breaker.


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## ricoba (Feb 22, 2013)

KCI said:


> We have already agreed to pay the entire amount...daughter in law never speaks to us...just son and granddaughter.  Fine with us!



That's kind of sad. 

Expects you to pay, but unwilling to communicate.  There's something wrong with this picture.


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## BocaBum99 (Feb 22, 2013)

siesta said:


> it was a figure of speech, sorry I can't be as eloquent as you desire while im typing with my two index fingers on an ipad riding the bumpy metra
> 
> By the way, I'm willing to bet that $47k includes nothing but tuition, and maybe a meal.
> 
> Additionally,yes someone with ivy cred. is specifically telling you that a $47k prep school isn't going to make or break a student in the admission process. That tuition is that high because its purposely meant to be exclusive, not because it prepares students better then any other reputable prep school, or a motivated student from a decent public ed. system. Believe it or not. Even if you see figures illustrating how many of those kids from exclusive schools go on to top10 schools, just know that many had ins. A dirty little secret (read: well known fact) in the ivy league is, its not always what you know, but who you know.



I agree with the exclusivity idea.  Stanford University just raised over $1B in its latest fundraising efforts.  That is well over $500k per student.   They are raising annually almost 10 times more than is required to give every student a full ride including room and board.

So why does Stanford and other top Universities even charge tuition?

1) For exclusivity
2) So that taxpayers can help subsidize the University.


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## DazedandConfused (Feb 22, 2013)

BocaBum99 said:


> I can't see paying $47,000 per year for high school.  It's just too much money for what you get in return.   If I had a net worth of $10M, I still don't think I would be willing to pay that much for high school.
> 
> That said, I do pay $18,900 for my kids to go to a top tier prep school.



How do you spell Hypocrite?

You pay $19k and your kids live at home. This thread is about paying $45k and it included boarding and meals.

I call that a PUSH with one standard deviation.



KCI said:


> I don't believe my granddaughter will be boarding at these schools...two of the schools she is looking at are Lawrence Academy and Concord Academy..and the $47,000 quote was from our son.  I am astonished that anyone pays that much $$ for highschool but...again, it's their call, not ours.



Here are the data from the two above school websites:

Lawrence
Tuition for the 2012-2013 school year is $52,640 for boarders and $40,510 for day students.
http://www.lacademy.edu/page.cfm?p=365

Concord
Tuition 2011-12
Boarding 	$48,050
Day 	$38,850
Additional Expenses
Non-refundable registration deposit 	$2,500 + 10% of tuition
Phone and voicemail access for boarding students 	$150
Books and studio fees 	$500–700
Miscellaneous 	$300–600
http://www.concordacademy.org/admissions/tuition.aspx



siesta said:


> it was a figure of speech, sorry I can't be as eloquent as you desire while im typing with my two index fingers on an ipad riding the bumpy metra
> 
> By the way, I'm willing to bet that $47k includes nothing but tuition, and maybe a meal.
> 
> A dirty little secret (read: well known fact) in the ivy league is, its not always what you know, but who you know.



Looks like you are wrong again, see the post above in terms of fees.

Perhaps the DIL is trying to BUY connections and friends by sending her daughter to an elite prep school. Sending your kids to a $47k school is a guarantee that they will probably network with RICH families. 



BocaBum99 said:


> I disagree.  If you are an art major in college and you spent $240,000 for Private University, you did it for fun.  It's not the best use of $240k.  In fact, given the taxpayer subsidies, it's a total waste of money.



So according to you all ART majors are failures or only having fun.....sad conclusion.

You sound like a typical politician that wants to cut funding for arts and music and make all kids math and science robots.



BocaBum99 said:


> So why does Stanford and other top Universities even charge tuition?
> 
> 1) For exclusivity
> 2) So that taxpayers can help subsidize the University.



Sanford is exclusive as they have a 7% acceptance rate (or 93% rejection rate) so they get to choose the BEST students they see fit and I doubt any donation less than $20,000,000 will get their attention for admission favors.

Sanford offers tuition for FREE to families making less than $100k and free room and board for families making below $60k.

http://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/Stanford-drops-tuition-for-some-students-3227473.php


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## vacationhopeful (Feb 22, 2013)

DazedandConfused said:


> How do you spell Hypocrite?
> 
> You pay $19k and your kids live at home. This thread is about paying $45k and it included boarding and meals.
> 
> I call that a PUSH with one standard deviation.



BocaBum99 would LOVE to have his kids to be able to eat and live with their classmates in dining halls and dorms. That is not possible.


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## BocaBum99 (Feb 22, 2013)

DazedandConfused said:


> How do you spell Hypocrite?
> 
> You pay $19k and your kids live at home. This thread is about paying $45k and it included boarding and meals.
> 
> ...



Your screen name is fitting.  You must be dazed and confused at what the words hypocrite and standard deviation mean.  Do you even know what a standard deviation is?  $18,900 is NOT 1 standard deviation from $47,000.  I looked it up, the average high school tuition for an independent school is $19,900.

Being willing to pay $18,900 and not $47,000 simply is making a value judgement of worth what paid for.  The OP stated and reiterated that $47k is tuition only.  I am sorry, but the education that school is delivering is nowhere near the value that I am paying at $18,900.  I'll bet that the top 5 students at that school and my son's school have equivalent and undifferentiated success in college.

I would need to know the distribution of tuitions to determine 1 standard deviation.  My guess is one standard deviation is around $25k.   $47k is several standard deviations from the mean.

Proportionally, it would be like saying that a $5 gallon of milk is equivalent to $12.43 gallon of milk.  I would venture to say that there are a lot more people willing to pay $5 for that milk and a lot fewer would be buying it at $12.43.


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## BocaBum99 (Feb 22, 2013)

DazedandConfused said:


> Ho
> 
> So according to you all ART majors are failures or only having fun.....sad conclusion.
> 
> You sound like a typical politician that wants to cut funding for arts and music and make all kids math and science robots.



You don't seem to understand my point.

I didn't say that art majors are failures, I used it as an example of refuting your statement "Money spend on education is perhaps the best use of money that I know as it pays lifelong dividends."   I said that anyone doing it is doing it for fun, not an investment that will reap dividends.  The equivalent expenditure would be summer camp or a trip to Europe with a rail pass.  That is a luxury purchase, not an investment.

It is NOT true that ALL money spent on ALL education will pay dividends.  In the case of an art major and many other liberal arts majors, $240k in tuition will not provide dividends.  If you track their life time of earnings, that $240k could have been better spent on something else, like a community college degree and an apprenticeship in an art gallery.  Then, the $240k could be put into a real estate investment that would actually provide dividends.

When the impending student loan debt bomb hits because students do not have jobs that can pay back the loans, we will revisit this thread.


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## BocaBum99 (Feb 22, 2013)

DazedandConfused said:


> You sound like a typical politician that wants to cut funding for arts and music and make all kids math and science robots.
> 
> Sanford is exclusive as they have a 7% acceptance rate (or 93% rejection rate) so they get to choose the BEST students they see fit and I doubt any donation less than $20,000,000 will get their attention for admission favors.
> 
> ...



First of all, I am not a politician.  I am a business person with a very strong understanding of economics.  I can make comparisons and use facts to back up my arguments.  I am not sure how you got to cutting funding for arts and music from my statements.  I am not advocating that at all.  I am merely stating my logically reasoned opinion that NOT all majors produce dividends when the cost is $240k in tuition and fees.   On the contrary, your statement that education provides dividends leads to the erroneous conclusion that education is worth it at all costs.  It isn't and I can logically and factually prove it.

Second of all, the University is Stanford.  Not, Sanford.  Sanford was a lead character is the sitcom Sanford and Son.  Secondly, the 7% admit rate is "selectivity" not exclusivity.   Stanford University is among the most selective Universities in the country. Their selectivity rate has absolutely nothing to do with my argument that Stanford University can afford to provide 100% full rides to all of their students and still increase their endowment by hundreds of millions every year.

If such University can self fund all of its students, why should taxpayers be required to provide student loans to Stanford University students when the University can easily do it from its ever increasing endowment?


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## siesta (Feb 22, 2013)

DazedandConfused said:


> Looks like you are wrong again, see the post above in terms of fees.


 you have no formal logic skills whatsoever.  

Your first quote quotes the OP saying the child in question will not be boarding at the school, and the $47k estimate from her son was just for tuition.  Then somehow you conclude I'm wrong when I said the OPs price quote was for tuition only.

Then, you try to prove me wrong once again by posting tuition for one of the schools the OP mentions that was $40+k just for tuition and $52+k for boarding included.  You fail to realize my point that even $40k is a waste of money. The $7k difference doesnt change my position or point illustrated, even $40k a year is basically what I paid for my undergraduate tuition (Yale is currently at $42k) and far exceeds most univ. tuitions, and is even more than most graduate schools tuition in the country.

Bocabum, stop giving this truly "dazed and confused" person the time of day.  One of my old, sage law professors told me years ago, "never argue with an idiot, he will pull you down to his level and beat you with experience."


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## DazedandConfused (Feb 22, 2013)

All these nonsense opinions on the value of education are getting ridiculous.

I am simple trying to support the decision of the DIL to want to send her kid to an elite boarding prep school and think private SSAT tutoring is a reasonable and necessary expense.

For whatever reason, it seems the DIL wants to hobnob with the blue bloods and increase the odds that her child will attend an Ivy college.



BocaBum99 said:


> I looked it up, the average high school tuition for an independent school is $19,900.
> 
> Being willing to pay $18,900 and not $47,000 simply is making a value judgement of worth what paid for.  The OP stated and reiterated that $47k is tuition only.  I am sorry, but the education that school is delivering is nowhere near the value that I am paying at $18,900.  I'll bet that the top 5 students at that school and my son's school have equivalent and undifferentiated success in college.



Seriously, you are being silly. The boarding prep schools are providing food, lodging, laundry, etc in addition to school. If you add up your spending on those items adn add it to you $19k in tuition, it is probably very close to $47k.

What about the bottom 95 kids in your sons school (assumed class of 100) , do you consider them failures too?

Besides, if you really need to save money, I am sure there are public schools in your area that are free and you will save $19k per year and I am sure some kids at that school will do fine or better than some of the kids at the school you attend.



BocaBum99 said:


> I didn't say that art majors are failures, I used it as an example of refuting your statement "Money spend on education is perhaps the best use of money that I know as it pays lifelong dividends."   I said that anyone doing it is doing it for fun, not an investment that will reap dividends.  The equivalent expenditure would be summer camp or a trip to Europe with a rail pass.  That is a luxury purchase, not an investment.
> 
> It is NOT true that ALL money spent on ALL education will pay dividends.  In the case of an art major and many other liberal arts majors, $240k in tuition will not provide dividends.  If you track their life time of earnings, that $240k could have been better spent on something else, like a community college degree and an apprenticeship in an art gallery.  Then, the $240k could be put into a real estate investment that would actually provide dividends.
> 
> When the impending student loan debt bomb hits because students do not have jobs that can pay back the loans, we will revisit this thread.



Wow, you certainly cast a wide net.

To some families, $240,000 is chump change and the benefit of private school networks is worth far more than that.

To compare community college with going to something like Harvard is a joke. Would you be satisfied if your $19k per year prep-school kids decided to go to community college.

With respect to your summer vacation or rail pass example, why do you vacation at all when you cold invest that money in some REIT instead.

Something tells me that you have a hidden agenda here, I just think any parent wanting the best education for their kids is the best spent money they will spend, but that is my OPINION.



BocaBum99 said:


> Second of all, the University is Stanford.  Not, Sanford.  Sanford was a lead character is the sitcom Sanford and Son.  Secondly, the 7% admit rate is "selectivity" not exclusivity.   Stanford University is among the most selective Universities in the country. Their selectivity rate has absolutely nothing to do with my argument that Stanford University can afford to provide 100% full rides to all of their students and still increase their endowment by hundreds of millions every year.
> 
> If such University can self fund all of its students, why should taxpayers be required to provide student loans to Stanford University students when the University can easily do it from its ever increasing endowment?



Yep, you got me, you win. I made a typo and typed Sanford instead of Stanford. My bad. touche on the sitcom post.

You also fail to understand what STANFORD does with all that money....it mainly goes to construction and research. let me guess, some Bum from Boca should decide what one of the most prestigious universities in the world should do with their endowment money. 



siesta said:


> you have no formal logic skills whatsoever.
> 
> One of my old, sage law professors told me years ago, "never argue with an idiot, he will pull you down to his level and beat you with experience."



How is this for logic - "I'm rubber, you're glue. Whatever you say bounces off of me and sticks to you"


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## DazedandConfused (Feb 22, 2013)

Perhaps the mother that wants to send her child to an elite prep school is simple looking for a future spouse for their child.

There is a story of how Kate met prince William after she went to prep school and then decided to attend the school William was going to, even though she was from a commoner family. I am sure Prince William would not have given her the time of day if she simple went to the local community college.

There you go, sending your kids to elite and expensive prep schools and colleges will more than likely increase the odds that they will marry someone that is either rich, smart, or famous vs going to a community college and just winging it. perhaps it is as simple as that.

No matter - Grandma KCI saved the day and sprung for the $2,500 private tutoring and the only thanks she gets is silence from the mother...._I think it is time to send the mother to a finishing school so she can learn some class and culture that seems to come natural to Grandma KCI._


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## PStreet1 (Feb 22, 2013)

Dazed and Confused, time and again, it's been pointed out that the yearly fee is for ONLY tuition, not boarding.

Obviously, people have a right to make whatever decisions they want regarding how they spend their personal money and how they choose to educate their children.  However, having those rights does not make all decisions sensible.  People on this thread have simply pointed out that
1.  high ability students who are motivated do not need expensive prep schools to succeed in gaining Ivy League  acceptance.
2.  not all education provides value for the dollar, though it may provide cultural value.
3.  expecting others to provide financial support for decisions you have made for your children is unreasonable; such support from others should be a freely made gift, not an obligation to maintain peace and harmony in the family.


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## DazedandConfused (Feb 22, 2013)

PStreet1 said:


> Dazed and Confused, time and again, it's been pointed out that the yearly fee is for ONLY tuition, not boarding.



The OP posted that they are looking at TWO schools and I went to their websites and copied their fees below. I did not expect to get attacked for splitting hairs on what the OP meant to include tuition or room and board.

Here are the data from the two above school websites:

Lawrence
Tuition for the 2012-2013 school year is $52,640 for boarders and $40,510 for day students.
http://www.lacademy.edu/page.cfm?p=365

Concord
Tuition 2011-12
Boarding 	$48,050
Day 	$38,850
Additional Expenses
Non-refundable registration deposit 	$2,500 + 10% of tuition
Phone and voicemail access for boarding students 	$150
Books and studio fees 	$500–700
Miscellaneous 	$300–600
http://www.concordacademy.org/admissions/tuition.aspx




BocaBum99 said:


> Your screen name is fitting.  You must be dazed and confused at what the words hypocrite and standard deviation mean.  Do you even know what a standard deviation is?



My screen name refers to the Led Zeppelin song. Have you ever heard of that band or do you only listen to Justin Bieber.

Based on your posts here, you are not an art fan and probably not a music connoisseur either. No problem, next time you go to NYC, don't visit the Guggenheim, MOMA or a even a Broadway musical show and try to hang out with the math majors in Central Park.


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## siesta (Feb 22, 2013)

Before I excuse myself from this discussion, I would like to point out that there is absolutely nothing wrong with community colleges. In fact, I know plenty of people that took core classes at community colleges because it was thousands less than the same exact classes at the universities, and then after a year or so they transfered those credits to universities and continued their studies and went on to be very successful at whatever bachelors degree they decided to pursue, and then continued on to law school, med school, business or engineering programs, etc.  So don't knock community colleges, because they serve a valuable purpose to many who use them for good reason and then continue on to great 4 year institutions. In fact, I consider them smarter than their peers when they end up in the same academic program, with the same number of credits, and for a mere fraction of the price. In the end, they all get the same diploma.

To the OP, good luck to your granddaughter regardless of the path her parents start her off on.  Whether or not she gets into that school and later an ivy league institution, just let her know where there is a will to succeed there is a way.  The victors in the academic rat race often aren't the smartest, but the most persistent and hardest working.


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## DazedandConfused (Feb 22, 2013)

How about this....I want to congratulate Grandma for paying for the SSAT prep.

She is a better person than the Daughter in law. Bravo.


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## PStreet1 (Feb 22, 2013)

"I don't believe my granddaughter will be boarding at these schools"


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## vacationhopeful (Feb 22, 2013)

My final words on this topic is from personal experience.

I went to a Southern Finishing school per my future (at the time) Princeton University attending SIL who was 1 year and grade behind me. I came home to my bedroom in my parents' house a month after I started classes at my "cheap" year abroad program at Rutgers University (it was a Southern finishing school and I was in Yankee land). My closet shelf was "not right" and I realize my college Macro Economics Book was missing. I ask my 8th grade sister - no, she didn't borrow it. Asked my Dad - no, again. My 4th grade sister - no, what is economics? Nor had my 1st year Nursing sister as she had not been home. Next my Mom - who under my skilled questioning, recalled my brother's girlfriend went up to my brother's bedroom (via the back stairs) and did leave with one of his books.

So, I drove back to Rutgers and stopped by, Princeton U and her dorm room. She let me into her suite (had a LR - it was Princeton) while she was on the phone with my brother in ND. Asked which BDR was hers and there on her bedroom desk was MY MACRO ECONOMICS BOOK with the girl's name who I had brought the book from at MY Southern Finishing school with my test papers still in it. I removed HER papers and told her to stay out of my bedroom at my parent's house, don't ever steal my stuff again and left. 

30 minutes later when I got back to my dorm at Rutgers, I started getting multiple phone calls to return HER ECON book. From my brother. From my mother. From my father. Told them all the same thing - she needed to go to her college bookstore and buy her own book, as I am sure the Princeton U version was better. 

Imagine, I was using the exact same Econ book at my Southern Finishing School as Princeton University used. But I had paid for my college text book.


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## DazedandConfused (Feb 22, 2013)

siesta said:


> Before I excuse myself from this discussion, I would like to point out that there is absolutely nothing wrong with community colleges.
> 
> In fact, I consider them smarter than their peers when they end up in the same academic program, with the same number of credits, and for a mere fraction of the price. In the end, they all get the same diploma.
> 
> The victors in the academic rat race often aren't the smartest, but the most persistent and hardest working.



I agree with part 1 and 3 but not part 2.

I think community colleges are great, but I doubt anyone that scores high enough on the SAT/ACT and has a straight A average with tons of AP classes would willingly chose to go to a community college over a tier 1 university.


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## lvhmbh (Feb 23, 2013)

The school our 16 year old attends is $25,910 for 9 thru 12th grade which includes lunch and books.  Also includes programming of mandatory laptop (which we must pay for).  Does not include transportation or other extraneous expenses such as uniforms, etc.


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## bogey21 (Feb 23, 2013)

DazedandConfused said:


> I think community colleges are great, but I doubt anyone that scores high enough on the SAT/ACT and has a straight A average with tons of AP classes would willingly chose to go to a community college over a tier 1 university.



I went to seven 4 year Universities before I graduated and probably had the grades to go most anywhere I wanted.  What I found was great professors and lousy ones in both the best schools and the lower tier ones.  IMO it is where you finally get your degree that matter, not where you went to get the majority of your credits.  Thus I agree with those who choose a Community College for a year or two.

George


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## KCI (Feb 23, 2013)

I am overwhelmed by the variety of thoughts this post has provoked. I've read them all and appreciate all your conversations.  I love TUGGERS...


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## DazedandConfused (Feb 23, 2013)

KCI said:


> I love TUGGERS...








Because several (not to be named) Tuggers mis-intrepreted some of my posts, I will add the above image to your quote just so they (the conspiracy TUG members - I will refer to them as Tiggers) will have a field day with one more.

Also, I really think you took the high road and went well above what most other grandmothers would do. I really hope it all works out for you and your granddaughter as that relationship is forever. As far as the DIL, she will never change.


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## xzhan02 (Feb 24, 2013)

*Montessori and SSAT tutoring*

My daughter attended a Montessori school from pre-school to 8th grade, then went on to a selective private prep high school. I am a firm believer of Montessori education, but it is intrinsically not compatible with standardized testing. When it came to SSAT time, she could initially do most of the problems but lacked speed and test taking skills,hovering around 90% composite. We used some private tutoring, but only for providing basic testing skills and diagnosing persistent problems. The most important part was heavy practice testing to get used to the types of problems and learn how to avoid mistakes. She was able to improve to 98% after ~2-3 months of tutoring every week or two and lots of practice tests on her own.  No we did not pay anywhere near $2000.


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## ricoba (Feb 24, 2013)

xzhan02 said:


> My daughter attended a Montessori school from pre-school to 8th grade, then went on to a selective private prep high school. I am a firm believer of Montessori education, but it is intrinsically not compatible with standardized testing. When it came to SSAT time, she could initially do most of the problems but lacked speed and test taking skills,hovering around 90% composite. We used some private tutoring, but only for providing basic testing skills and diagnosing persistent problems. The most important part was heavy practice testing to get used to the types of problems and learn how to avoid mistakes. She was able to improve to 98% after ~2-3 months of tutoring every week or two and lots of practice tests on her own.  No we did not pay anywhere near $2000.




I didn't want to comment on that issue, but I wondered about it, since that  was my concern with the Motessori system, which is very constructivist in its philosophy.


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## siesta (Feb 24, 2013)

xzhan02 said:


> My daughter attended a Montessori school from pre-school to 8th grade, then went on to a selective private prep high school. I am a firm believer of Montessori education, but it is intrinsically not compatible with standardized testing. When it came to SSAT time, she could initially do most of the problems but lacked speed and test taking skills,hovering around 90% composite. We used some private tutoring, but only for providing basic testing skills and diagnosing persistent problems. The most important part was heavy practice testing to get used to the types of problems and learn how to avoid mistakes. She was able to improve to 98% after ~2-3 months of tutoring every week or two and lots of practice tests on her own.  No we did not pay anywhere near $2000.


i went to preschool at montessori, then catholic school until 8th grade.  I will definitely send my kids to preschool at montesorri.


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## DazedandConfused (Feb 24, 2013)

siesta said:


> i went to preschool at montessori, then catholic school until 8th grade.  I will definitely send my kids to preschool at montesorri.



Although that may have worked out fine for you, that is sorta like saying I drove a beatup car with no airbags, no ABS brakes, and no power steering, so my kids will get the same.

Times change and in the case of improved technology and safety, most of us want their kids in the safest cars possible.

No offense, but you have to look at CURRENT educational standards, methods and data, not what worked 30 years ago.

I think Montessori schools are great for many people, but MOST of the prep-school I spoke with DISCOURAGED those programs and they prefer students from STRUCTURED feeder schools.

Of course, smart kids will do fine anywhere, but switching between two fundamentally different teaching styles can have negative outcomes for some students.



xzhan02 said:


> My daughter attended a Montessori school from pre-school to 8th grade, then went on to a selective private prep high school. I am a firm believer of Montessori education, but it is intrinsically not compatible with standardized testing.



I agree.

Again, when switching learning styles, you will have to prepare and adapt, thus getting back to the OP first post, sending your kid to SSAT tutoring is a fantastic idea if you want to get into a highly selective prep high school and even highly selective university.


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## siesta (Feb 24, 2013)

DazedandConfused said:


> Although that may have worked out fine for you, that is sorta like saying I drove a beatup car with no airbags, no ABS brakes, and no power steering, so my kids will get the same.


 The montessori preschool is IMO one of the best. If parents can afford it, that is tuition worth spending.


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## Stressy (Feb 26, 2013)

DazedandConfused said:


> I agree with part 1 and 3 but not part 2.
> 
> I think community colleges are great, but I doubt anyone that scores high enough on the SAT/ACT and has a straight A average with tons of AP classes would willingly chose to go to a community college over a tier 1 university.



Willingly? Are they writing the checks? If you have raised them right-then they understand you just don't stomp your feet and say you "deserve" it. 

You have just described both of my children. One is already at his chosen transfer university and the other will start community college in the Fall. Both will graduate debt free.

Cash is King.


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## siesta (Feb 26, 2013)

Stressy said:


> Willingly? Are they writing the checks? If you have raised them right-then they understand you just don't stomp your feet and say you "deserve" it.
> 
> You have just described both of my children. One is already at his chosen transfer university and the other will start community college in the Fall. Both will graduate debt free.
> 
> Cash is King.


 well there are student loans, which are close to 4% interest rates. Even if a student was paying his own way, he'd be wise to at least consider community college to take core classes and then transfer into a university.  It would save them 10s of thousands of dollars, and if they then went to grad school (loans at 6.9% for first $20,500 and grad plus loans for the remainder at 7.9% and as of July 2012 unsubsidized meaning interest accrues immediately while still in school) a smaller principle and the interest saved on those initial undergrad loans would help.  Then consider alot of kids graduating with bachelors degrees are unemployed or underemployed, and many in a field that they didnt go to school for, they would be incredibly wise to cut costs where they can.

Glad to see your kids taking advantage of the opportunity community colleges offer to start to pursue and then transfer to obtain the same degrees as their peers for a fraction of the cost.


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## vacationhopeful (Feb 26, 2013)

I attended several colleges in my 3.5 years of college. I just missed the top 10% of my high school class, due to my 2 years of hgh school French grades. I got a BS in college to avoid the foreign language requirement of a BA - I am tone & rythme deaf.

I could have graduated after 3 years (Computer Science) BUT decided to finish my primary major (MATH) and a minor (Accounting). So I graduated in 3.5 years. I had less than $3500 in student loans. I had college classes EVERY summer in NJ while my primary college was in FL. Back in those dark ages, no AP tests and no college credit for HS courses.

My nephew is finishing his 2nd Spring semester at U of Maryland - College Park. He entered college as a 2nd semester Sophmore in credits. AP placement tests, online classes while in HS (free while in HS at the county community college), and HS accrediated (college) classes. When I asked his mom, what graduate program was he entering after graduating in the next 2 years -- she did NOT get it. And he could have graduated ... then did his Masters ... within a 4 year cycle. 

My niece in California DID get it. She finished public high school in 3 years with college credits. Did 1 year of (free) community college & graduated. Did 2 years at a CA State college for her BS. Is now at University of Oregon in her PhD program. Yes, she was 19 with a BS degree from a CA state school and accepted into a PhD program. She has finished 2 years of her PhD studies and in her 3rd year.


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## pranas (Feb 26, 2013)

vacationhopeful said:


> I attended several colleges in my 3.5
> My nephew is finishing his 2nd Spring semester at U of Maryland - College Park. He entered college as a 2nd semester Sophmore in credits. AP placement tests, online classes while in HS (free while in HS at the county community college), and HS accrediated (college) classes. When I asked his mom, what graduate program was he entering after graduating in the next 2 years -- she did NOT get it. And he could have graduated ... then did his Masters ... within a 4 year cycle.
> 
> My niece in California DID get it. She finished public high school in 3 years with college credits. Did 1 year of (free) community college & graduated. Did 2 years at a CA State college for her BS. Is now at University of Oregon in her PhD program. Yes, she was 19 with a BS degree from a CA state school and accepted into a PhD program. She has finished 2 years of her PhD studies and in her 3rd year.



Linda, Your niece should check the current issue of the "Chronicle of Higher Education" and read the article on  current job prospects  for new Ph.Ds in Biology.


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## vacationhopeful (Feb 26, 2013)

My niece is not in biology. Psych. A growing field I am sure.:ignore:

My other neice in CA is doing a residency in Pharmarcy in San Diego - she already has her Doctor of Pharmacy. Trust me, my sister is a research queen on schools and careers -- but the younger one got her totally on graduating HS in 3 years - by telling her 2 or 3 months before the graduation date. Anyone who graduated from her public high school got FREE tuition at the local county junior college - so my neice was happy to go there and live at home. 

The high school has since shut down that 3 year loop hole. 

Can you all figure out which girl did her best to drive my sister NUTS?


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## jehb2 (Feb 27, 2013)

I must live in a different world.  I would never ask my in-laws to foot the bill for anything.  Well, okay 2 Christmases ago I did ask my MIL to buy my kids some long socks.  We were going to visit them for  Christmas and it was snowing there.  All I could find were ankle socks in Texas.  So I asked her to buy socks.


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## AKE (Feb 27, 2013)

You have got to be kidding!  If a student is motivated then they will excel on their own, if not, then you are wasting your time and money on them.  What is going to happen once they get accepted?  Who is going to write their papers for them? Do their science projects and so on?  Stop the helicoptering parents and let them do it on their own.  If you want some info on the tests, look on the internet.  There are lots of sites that can provide the same materials at zero cost (or close to it). However, the student needs to be self-motivated and tutor or not, this is not something that can be bought with $$$.


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## DebBrown (Feb 27, 2013)

This has been a really interesting thread.  As a grandmother, I am relieved to not be put in this position BUT I probably would help out if asked.

My granddaughter attends a Chicago Public School.  She had to test into kindergarten at a selective magnet school.  Then she applied for and attends the Academic Center at a selective high school.  This program only accepts 50 7th grade students per year.  Admission is by testing, grades and teacher recommendation.  She already has high school credit and will graduate with a long list of AP classes.  So far, we haven't paid a penny for this education above and beyond property taxes.

I know many of the kids in the AC did use tutors to prepare for the testing.  Some of the parents are a bit pushy too.  They sign their kids up for academic classes all summer and basically over-schedule these already busy students.  I'm glad my granddaughter has a life outside of the fast paced curriculum.

I'm guessing when college tuition time comes, we'll be making a contribution - and happily!

Deb


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## DazedandConfused (Feb 28, 2013)

AKE said:


> You have got to be kidding!  If a student is motivated then they will excel on their own, if not, then you are wasting your time and money on them.  What is going to happen once they get accepted?  Who is going to write their papers for them? Do their science projects and so on?  Stop the helicoptering parents and let them do it on their own.  If you want some info on the tests, look on the internet.  There are lots of sites that can provide the same materials at zero cost (or close to it). However, the student needs to be self-motivated and tutor or not, this is not something that can be bought with $$$.



Fist of all, this thread is about a middle school child in 8th grade and probably only 13 years old and her mother wants her to get into a competitive college prep boarding high school and she needs to do well on the SSAT.

Second of all , the child is probably pretty smart on her own and this discussion is about getting tutoring for the SSAT test that is used for admission criteria. I doubt she is getting the test prep techniques in her current school and private tutoring or coaching will definitely help boost the score vs going in cold.

Also, the free sites online are generally worth what you pay for....seriously and there are relatively few SSAT free resources. Also, the private attention for a 13 year old will be much better than winging it on their own on the internet.

You are giving very old fashioned and dangerous antiquated advice.

You really need to take a look at what is happening TODAY. There is incredible competition for admission to the Top 100 Universities and EXTREME competition for the top 25 and ULTRA extreme competition for the top 10 as ranked by US News. Many of the kids admitted to elite colleges come from a few dozen top private prep school and their success rate is far better than most public schools.

Also, it seems the Asians are winning this competition (vs most other groups) and that is a proven fact that is reflected in a super strong work ethic as outlined in the book "Battle Hymn of the Tiger Mother" by Amy Chua published in 2011. Just look at the percentages of Asians that dominate the University of California school system as they are significantly over represented in almost every top school. Somehow, I don't think Tiger Mom simply let her own daughter just wing it on standardized admission tests.


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## vacationhopeful (Feb 28, 2013)

DazedandConfused said:


> ....
> Also, it seems the Asians are winning this competition (vs most other groups) and that is a proven fact that is reflected in a super strong work ethic as outlined in the book "Battle Hymn of the Tiger Mother" by Amy Chua published in 2011. Just look at the percentages of Asians that dominate the University of California school system as they are significantly over represented in almost every top school. Somehow, I don't think Tiger Mom simply let her own daughter just wing it on standardized admission tests.



My niece at the University of the Pacific for her graduate Pharmacy degree had 3 other girls in her student housing apt. All Asians. In her classes, she was the distinct minority --- all the top tier students (actually the majority of her class) was Asian. All they did was study. They only ate, so they could study. They slept and ate and studied. No dates. No boyfriends. No pizza nights. The only time she saw them was when they fixed a simple meal in the kitchen or coming in the door, heading to their individual bedroom to STUDY.

She was in a 3 year program PhdParm program - and that is ALL she did.


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## bogey21 (Feb 28, 2013)

Today is so different from when I was in HS.  All I could do was wait to graduate, move out on my own and pay my own way through school even though my parents had the money and were willing to pay.  I quickly figured out that joining the Army to get the GI Bill was the best route for me.  

I'm like many of the rest of you as I paid tuition so my kids could attend a local Christian School; for my Daughter through her Masters degree; and for my Son for two years of college prior to his joining the Marines and getting the GI Bill.  My question is "why do we do this"?

George


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## Janann (Feb 28, 2013)

Back to the question of test prep -- yes, it will help.  Is it worth it?  Only if she gets into the school that the family sees as the best.  In other words, if you would happily pay $2,000 to get into that school, then its worth it.

Someone posted about how difficult it is to get into a top college these days.  We recently navigated the college application process with my daughter, and she was lucky to be given a merit scholarship for about half her expenses at a top-20 university.  The kids at the best colleges all have long lists of high school accomplishments.  They need high GPAs and test scores, plus competitions of one kind or another at the national level to get in the running for the best colleges.  The acceptance rates at the best schools are insanely low, with a few Ivy League schools with rates under 10%.  Ivy League is becoming more and more of a crapshoot, because most students who apply are high achieving, over qualified students.

My daughter did have classroom test prep, but lucky for us the school district offered about 20 hours of instruction for selected "high potential" students over the summer for only $150.  Best money I ever spent!


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## AKE (Feb 28, 2013)

DazedandConfused said:


> Fist of all, this thread is about a middle school child in 8th grade and probably only 13 years old and her mother wants her to get into a competitive college prep boarding high school and she needs to do well on the SSAT.
> 
> Second of all , the child is probably pretty smart on her own and this discussion is about getting tutoring for the SSAT test that is used for admission criteria. I doubt she is getting the test prep techniques in her current school and private tutoring or coaching will definitely help boost the score vs going in cold.
> 
> ...



I am very well aware of what is happening today.  My 3 kids all went through university successfully including my youngest who went to school in the states on a half academic and  half athletic scholarship and he did not have any tutors, either in high school or to prepare for university.  He went in cold to write the SATs at the last minute (as we hadn't even given thought to school in the states) and scored in the  90th percentile. I subsequently got him a few paper books which he studied on his own and he rewrote the test 3 weeks later, improving his score by 20%.  HE WAS EITHER MOTIVATED (and no, he was not a straight A student by any means) or the tests were not something that you could study for in the first place.

No one really cares (except for helicoptering parents) as to whether the university/college is a top 100 or average.  It is what the student makes of their experience that counts.  I have seen very successful individuals who graduated from seemingly mediocre schools and losers who went to top schools. Furthermore, once they land their first job it makes no difference what school they did or did not go to - it is how they perform on the job that counts. Putting pressure on kids to get into the 'right' high school is both dangerous and ludicrous; what happens when they don't get in or when they do get in but decide that they don't really want it?


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## Janann (Mar 1, 2013)

AKE said:


> No one really cares (except for helicoptering parents) as to whether the university/college is a top 100 or average.



I disagree.  I'd certainly care if I were hiring an attorney or business consultant at $300/hour.  Before I visit a doctor I check the website to see where the doctor was educated.  If the doctor has been practicing for 20 years it matters less, but if its only been a couple years the school matters to me.



AKE said:


> I have seen very successful individuals who graduated from seemingly mediocre schools and losers who went to top schools.



Agree completely.

Its been interesting to read the responses to this thread.  For anyone who wants to see what the college search is like these days, wander over to the message boards on www.collegeconfidential.com.:wave:


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## DazedandConfused (Mar 1, 2013)

AKE said:


> I am very well aware of what is happening today.  My 3 kids all went through university successfully including my youngest who went to school in the states on a half academic and  half athletic scholarship and he did not have any tutors, either in high school or to prepare for university.  He went in cold to write the SATs at the last minute (as we hadn't even given thought to school in the states) and scored in the  90th percentile. I subsequently got him a few paper books which he studied on his own and he rewrote the test 3 weeks later, improving his score by 20%.  HE WAS EITHER MOTIVATED (and no, he was not a straight A student by any means) or the tests were not something that you could study for in the first place.
> 
> No one really cares (except for helicoptering parents) as to whether the university/college is a top 100 or average.  It is what the student makes of their experience that counts.  I have seen very successful individuals who graduated from seemingly mediocre schools and losers who went to top schools. Furthermore, once they land their first job it makes no difference what school they did or did not go to - it is how they perform on the job that counts. Putting pressure on kids to get into the 'right' high school is both dangerous and ludicrous; what happens when they don't get in or when they do get in but decide that they don't really want it?



1. You live in Canada, not the US and the schools are very different 

2. You are lucky that your child went into the SAT unprepared and scored at the top 90%. This obviously is not something that 89% of the other test takers can accomplish.

3. You stated he retook the SAT 3 weeks later and after reading a book, increased his score by 20%. I somehow find this very difficult to believe, but in the incredible rare event, then you son must be some freak of education genius and is clearly not like the others. How would you feel if he tested in the bottom 20% and wanted to go to university.

4. Perhaps Canadians do not care about what university they go to, but in the good ole USA, it is a BIG DEAL to most parents. In addition, in the US, most of the top companies that represent the best jobs - recruit from the best schools.

5. Experience may have been something that worked for your generation, but there are lots of people doing free internships getting all sorts of great experience, but still can not land a well paying job. I think again, you are not understanding the difficult and highly competitive job market that exists in the USA. Any job that pays over $100k in the USA will probably get several hundred applications and the elite school grads are usually the ones getting the position.


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## bogey21 (Mar 2, 2013)

Janann said:


> I disagree.  I'd certainly care if I were hiring an attorney or business consultant at $300/hour.  Before I visit a doctor I check the website to see where the doctor was educated.  If the doctor has been practicing for 20 years it matters less, but if its only been a couple years the school matters to me.



I don't quarrel with the fact you believe what you believe, but you are wrong.  Like I said in prior posts I attended a lot of universities before I graduated.  The three best professors I had were at Southern Illinois, University of Houston and St Louis University Law School.  Professors I had at better thought of schools like NYU, Washington University of St Louis and the University of North Carolina weren't in the same league.  And you know what was common with the three I say were the best?  None were academics.  All three had jobs in the real world and taught part time.

George


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## Liz Wolf-Spada (Mar 2, 2013)

I am glad someone mentioned the issue of Montessori. I am more familiar with Montessori preschools than elementary schools, but the little I do know would suggest that unlike kids in public schools, the grand daughter may have little experience with high pressure testing and the curriculum may not have been focused on the same things as what is tested, so test prep might really make sense in this situation. 
I think it is appalling that this DIL doesn't speak to her MIL. How rude!
Liz


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## siesta (Mar 2, 2013)

Janann said:


> I disagree.  I'd certainly care if I were hiring an attorney or business consultant at $300/hour.  Before I visit a doctor I check the website to see where the doctor was educated.  If the doctor has been practicing for 20 years it matters less, but if its only been a couple years the school matters to me.[/url]


 a couple of points.  First off, there are only about 200 ABA accredited law schools.  They typically rank the top 145, and divide them into what they call tiers.  The best schools are whats called tier1, which is the top 50, and tier2 is the next 50 to 100, 100-145 are tier3 and tier 4.  Everything else is unranked.  There is also a subset within the tier1 rankings called t14, which are the top 14 ranked law schools that have remained at the top of the U.S. News and World Report rankings since the rankings started.

Additionally, if the lawyer has only been practicing a couple of years, trust me school is not going to matter much, they are all equally wet behind the ears. We all study the same cases, the same rules of law, learn the same way to apply them to fact patterns, and we all take the same bar exam in the same state.

Just because someone comes from the top schools doesnt automatically make them a great attorney.  For example, being a skilled trial attorney takes a lot more than brains, and I've seen many guys from the top schools have no personality and fail to connect with jurors or prospective clients, at that point who cares how high their undergraduate gpa was and how they scored on their LSAT.  I have seen many attorneys from tier3 and tier4 schools spin t14 guys around on their heads during litigation.  So heed the advice: don't judge a book by its cover (or shingle).  Rather, look at a guys track record, or better yet the praise he gets from his former clients and peers.  Dont put too much stock into that US news ranking hype, and this is coming from a guy that attended a t14 school.

In fact, a person I like to think of as my mentor attended a tier4 school currently ranked in the 120's.  He was a federal prosecutor before switching to private practice, and now specializes in white collar criminal defense, with a billable rate of $1200/hour.  He is considered one of the best white collar defense attorneys in the city of Chicago, and I consider myself privileged to have learned from him. There are plenty of outstanding attorneys that havent come from top100 (tier 1 and tier 2) law schools, and you'd be foolish to exclude them.


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## bogey21 (Mar 2, 2013)

Well said!

George


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## BocaBum99 (Mar 2, 2013)

Janann said:


> I disagree.  I'd certainly care if I were hiring an attorney or business consultant at $300/hour.  Before I visit a doctor I check the website to see where the doctor was educated.  If the doctor has been practicing for 20 years it matters less, but if its only been a couple years the school matters to me.



Really?  You check to see where they were educated?

When I am performing due diligence on an attorney, business consultant or doctor, the first thing I check are their patients/clients and referrals.  In other words, their track record.   What they have done is infinitely more important than the University that is on their Diploma.


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## PStreet1 (Mar 2, 2013)

DazedandConfused said:


> Fist of all, this thread is about a middle school child in 8th grade and probably only 13 years old and her mother wants her to get into a competitive college prep boarding high school and she needs to do well on the SSAT.
> 
> Second of all , the child is probably pretty smart on her own and this discussion is about getting tutoring for the SSAT test that is used for admission criteria. I doubt she is getting the test prep techniques in her current school and private tutoring or coaching will definitely help boost the score vs going in cold.
> 
> ...


Probably not, but there's no way to know whether she could have or not.  Given my childrens' and grandchildrens' I.Q.'s, their "standing" in the high school's they attended, I was quite content that they would be just fine--and they were.

You mention that free on line preparation is worth about what you pay for it, and maybe that's true; I wouldn't know.  However, when I spoke about on-line preparation, I was talking about paid courses.

Not free, but quite well regarded, and available on line:  http://sat.collegeboard.org/practice

The Princeton Review--not free, but available on line and well regarded:  http://www.princetonreview.com/coll...mkey=K000016&gclid=COSPjYKe37UCFYKDQgodSyAAuw

Kaplan on line:  http://www.kaplan.com/our-programs/...admissions/south-america/sat-prep-online.aspx

As I said, having taught a few SAT prep. courses myself, and having been contacted by Kaplan about teaching their courses, in my opinion, for most people who are smart enough in the first place and motivated, it's a waste of money.  If anything is going to help (the self-motivated), on line practice or working with a good $30.00 book will do the trick.


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## BocaBum99 (Mar 3, 2013)

PStreet1 said:


> Probably not, but there's no way to know whether she could have or not.  Given my childrens' and grandchildrens' I.Q.'s, their "standing" in the high school's they attended, I was quite content that they would be just fine--and they were.
> 
> You mention that free on line preparation is worth about what you pay for it, and maybe that's true; I wouldn't know.  However, when I spoke about on-line preparation, I was talking about paid courses.
> 
> ...



I agree.  My oldest son is a gifted test taker.   He was a National Merit Finalist and scored a 2270 on the SAT his Junior year without taking any prep courses.  He scored a 790 in math, 780 in reading and 700 in writing.  He asked me if he should take it again to improve his writing score.  I told him not to bother since any school that was going to accept him with a 2350 would also accept him with a 2270.

When he first took the SSAT in 6th grade, he was in the 99 percentile on all 3 tests and he didn't even see a practice test.   Some kids are just good at taking tests.  He is one of them.  He is so good at it that he can look at the answers and often times get the answer correct without even reading the question.

I'll repeat my answer to the OP.  Before signing up for an SSAT tutor or prep course, I would sign up for one of the remaining tests this school year.  If her daughter doesn't score in the 95 percentile composite, then sign up for a test tutor or course and take it again in Oct or Dec.


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## PStreet1 (Mar 3, 2013)

That's excellent advice.  In addition to letting the student know where he ranks, it gives an "undoctored" test result to know whether the test prep. course actually improved the score.  I've seen some "questionable" improvement which used only in-house given tests.


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## AKE (Mar 3, 2013)

DazedandConfused said:


> 1. You live in Canada, not the US and the schools are very different
> 
> 2. You are lucky that your child went into the SAT unprepared and scored at the top 90%. This obviously is not something that 89% of the other test takers can accomplish.
> 
> ...



1) There is not that much difference between schools in Canada or the US - my kids are good examples of that - in fact my youngest went on to a master's degree in Canada after his undergraduate from the states. I also have a DIL who got her PhD in the states (undergrad in Canada) so the levels of education are equivalent.

2/3) My son is no genius - he is far from it. The big difference was that he was MOTIVATED and there were NO HELICOPTERING PARENTS putting incredible pressure on him to get into top 10 schools.  He chose his school / career path. Yes he asked for advice when he got the offers and we talked it through but he made the final decision.He also knew that if he screwed up in any manner he would be back home in 24 hours (that was my only condition to him going).

4) You hit the nail on the head however you are wrong.  In good ole Canada there are the same helicoptering parents as in the US. However the smart ones in both countries know enough to let their kids 'grow' and make their own mistakes without mommy and daddy trying to run their lives.  If a kid feels that it is important to go to a top 10 school then that is fine, however, if they don't care, then that is fine as well.  My parents had different career plans for me than what I chose (and I have 3 degrees). At the same time they were smart enough to let me live my own life and make my own mistakes and there is no-one to blame but myself if things didn't turn out well (but they did - )

5) I would suggest reading a bit of Canadian news. (its all on the interent).  Our graduates have the same issues re getting a job as in  the states.  They work for free, trying to land a job amd jobs paying in the $100k range are rare for new grads. Yes some companies will look for grads from a particular school but the large majority of employers know that it is no much the school as it is the person. Just because a parent pays big bucks to get their child into a top 10 school does not mean that the child will be successful (or even happy) once they graduate.


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## Parker15 (Jan 18, 2018)

Is it possible at all, to try it on your own? A friend of mine said that he’d give me his LSAT Prep material. I am also looking to find some good online SAT Prep courses. I have had a couple of suggestions from friends such as Test Max and Kaplan.

[Link removed by Moderator]


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## VegasBella (Jan 18, 2018)

I used private tutoring to prepare for the LSAT and it was very good. It was basically just private because that was the best way to organize the timing - we only had two or three sessions but doing it in a class format was just difficult for me (I was working). He just gave some very good advice, some tricks for managing the time, and lots of practice tests. I scored very high and got many scholarship offers.

But then I dropped out of law school halfway through because I got too stressed out. I was working, I was engaged, and then Katrina hit and destroyed my in-laws homes. I suffered major anxiety and simply couldn't remember anything any more - I'd read something and literally could not tell you what it said a minute later. I intended to simply take a semester off to regroup but after getting married things just sort of changed and it just never felt like the right time to go back and finish law school. I regret it now in some ways, but I also know that the stress of that job was probably just too much for me. 

I still say that my favorite part of law school was the LSAT. I really did enjoy the test - largely because I felt so well prepared for it.


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## theo (Jan 18, 2018)

It was longer ago than I care to admit when I took the LSAT. I never considered (nor could I have afforded) "tutoring" of any kind. I didn't ace the LSAT, but certainly did well enough for acceptance into a decent law school. LSAT seemed to me at the time to be little more than a comprehension / literacy test; perhaps it has changed considerably since then.

In my view, the bigger question today is why become an attorney *at all*, unless the law is really and truly a passion?
Lawyers are a dime a dozen and I meet too many bright young people struggling to find gainful and meaningful employment after passing the bar exam, too many ending up significantly underemployed and discouraged. I'm sure that it's very different for the Ivy League / Silver Spooners with "familial hooks", but they are surely a statistical minority.

Just a personal observation and opinion, for whatever it's worth.


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## MULTIZ321 (Jan 18, 2018)

Note, that until post #86 - this is a reopening of a thread from 2013.   I did not realize that until I saw a post by Boca Bum99  which I knew was from awhile ago.


Richard


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