# Time share newbie - what to buy?



## ChristiRose (Aug 18, 2016)

Hello! Just went through a Westgate tour and a Capital Resorts tour this week and seriously considering a timeshare purchase in the near future.  My in-laws own with Bluegreen and last year they exchanged for a DVC location and took us to Disney World. Being able to exchange for on-property accomodations at Disney World is a top selling point for us.  In light of that, recommendations please?

1) Where do you want your home resort to be?
Orlando or Gatlinburg/Pigeon Forge

2) Do you want to visit your home resort at least half the time, or do you want to trade more than half the time? Half and half

3) What are your 5 top trade destinations?
DVC Disney World properties, Gatlinburg/Pigeon Forge, beach destinations on east coast

4) How many people do you usually travel with? 2 adults and 3 kids

5) Can you travel any time, or are you locked into the school schedule? Any time

6) Can you make firm plans 12 or more mos. in advance? Not usually, husband's job only allows time off requests for the following year in November  which gives us about 10 months in advance to plan fall vacations - less for summer or spring.

7) Can you vacation for a full week at a time? Yes

8) What level of accommodations do you prefer on a scale of 1 to 5 stars? 2+

9) How much can you afford to spend upfront, without financing? $3000

10) How much can you afford to spend every year for a maintenance fee that will come due right after Christmas, and increase each year? Prefer under $500

11) Are you a detail oriented planner? Yes

12) Do you understand that once you buy a timeshare, it may be very difficult to sell or give away, and you are responsible for all fees, until you do? Yes


----------



## DeniseM (Aug 18, 2016)

ChristiRose said:


> 1) Where do you want your home resort to be?
> Orlando or Gatlinburg/Pigeon Forge
> 
> 3) What are your 5 top trade destinations?
> DVC Disney World properties, Gatlinburg/Pigeon Forge, beach destinations on east coast



To trade into Disney, you need a strong trader, that is affiliated with RCI.  You cannot trade an Orlando resort back into DVC - they don't allow it.  A strong trader means that it has a lot of RCI points or RCI Trading Power Units (TPU.)  I don't know if that is available in Gatlinburg/Pigeon Forge.



> 4) How many people do you usually travel with? 2 adults and 3 kids



You need a 2 bdm. for a family of 5.



> 9) How much can you afford to spend upfront, without financing? $3000
> 
> 10) How much can you afford to spend every year for a maintenance fee that will come due right after Christmas, and increase each year? Prefer under $500



$3,000 upfront is OK, but $500 a year is unrealistic.  For a 2 bdm. that will trade into a 2 bdm. beach resort and DVC, I'd plan for at least $1,500.


----------



## ottawasquaw (Aug 18, 2016)

Denise has given you a knowledgable response. I thought the MF's were a little low, too.

 And, from my experience, getting an East Coast beach property was not easy either.
I once traded into Virginia Beach through RCI. My boys did not like the beach (we had previously rented little houses on barrier islands which are much more about nature than commerce.) Worse, the TS itself was unacceptable. RCI refunded my week and we headed to West Virginia and white water rafting.


----------



## taterhed (Aug 18, 2016)

I too think that your expectations of the very low annual Maintenance fee(s) is very unreasonable.

Consider renting and using TUG or other venues for last minute rentals of very low-priced timeshares.

TUG has bargain rentals galore and there are a number of commercial sites that rent last-minute (read low demand) timeshares for pennies on the dollar.

If you  have certain affiliations (Mil, Police,  Firefighter etc...) you may be able to get additional rental discounts as well.

cheers.


----------



## csxjohn (Aug 18, 2016)

Bluegreen might be a good fit for you because you can exchange through RCI into the Disney properties.

A friend just checked for me and there is currently some availability at Key West and Saratoga springs. 

The inability to book before Nov for the next summer could be a problem, not so much for the fall.  Bg works best if you can book at the 11 month mark.


East coast beaches are very easy at the 11month mark but gets harder as the months tick by.

I do not recommend going to a presentation with them, they are notorious for stretching the truth as to what you can and cannot do.

I hope this helps.


----------



## ChristiRose (Aug 18, 2016)

Thank you for the responses!  I hadn't realized that about Orlando-based properties not trading into DVC so we definitely will scrap basing out of Orlando.

Regarding maintenance fees, at the Capital presentation we were told their fees are usually under $450 and the two offers they made us were just under that.  Should I be skeptical about that or does that sound true for Capital?


----------



## Passepartout (Aug 18, 2016)

ChristiRose said:


> Regarding maintenance fees, at the Capital presentation we were told *their fees are usually under $450* and the two offers they made us were just under that.  *Should I be skeptical about that *or does that sound true for Capital?



Sounds like salesman lies. And if those numbers are true, the MF is too low, opening owners up to the likelihood of an unexpected Special Assessment (SA) that can- and do- occur when a resort can't afford typical maintenance, like a roof, or updated furnishings, or hurricane damage.

Most MFs these days are around $800-$1000 for 1 bedroom 1 week per year in a small, independent resort, up to $3,000 in a 5 star, hotel branded deluxe suite in Hawaii.

Yes, you should be skeptical.

Jim


----------



## tschwa2 (Aug 18, 2016)

Capital exchanges through II not RCI which has DVC. That being said if you are paying 450 in Mf, you aren't going to have enough points to get a 1 bedroom for 7 nights during the summer through II or for most of their locations internally.


----------



## silentg (Aug 18, 2016)

Sent OP a PM


----------



## ChristiRose (Aug 18, 2016)

Capital told us they can exchange with RCI but I'm wondering how much of this pitch was BS.  

So thinking about this more, we would probably only use 1 week every other year so a biennial or a low point annual that allows us to rollover/bank for the following year could be an option? Or is that less cost effective overall?


----------



## DeniseM (Aug 18, 2016)

Unfortunately, sales people will say whatever you want to hear to make the sale.  Glad you found TUG before you bought.

If you only want to go on vacation every other year, and your dates are flexible, and your budget tight, you would be better off renting.

Here is our Last Minute Rentals forum where all rentals are $100 per night or less:

--->>>  http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=45 [link corrected]


----------



## presley (Aug 18, 2016)

It sounds like owning a timeshare would be a bad deal for you. I recommend renting. You won't be able to rent DVC cheaply, but you can get just about anything else.

Denise, that link says it goes to usanews.


----------



## DeniseM (Aug 18, 2016)

presley said:


> It sounds like owning a timeshare would be a bad deal for you. I recommend renting. You won't be able to rent DVC cheaply, but you can get just about anything else.
> 
> Denise, that link says it goes to usanews.



HA HA - I just sent that link to my DH - about "FroYo and Diarrhea"  :hysterical:

I corrected the link!


----------



## ChristiRose (Aug 18, 2016)

DeniseM said:


> Unfortunately, sales people will say whatever you want to hear to make the sale.  Glad you found TUG before you bought.
> 
> If you only want to go on vacation every other year, and your dates are flexible, and your budget tight, you would be better off renting.
> 
> ...



To clarify, we do want to go on vacation every year but correct me if I'm wrong renting would be a better deal for a lot of locations, maybe all locations we are interested in except Disney?   That is why I thinking going down to biennial and using it to trade for DVC every other year and then renting for a beach location on the off years.  But still learning so much so I could be totally off base! 

Our budget is not tight by necessity - more like we don't personally like spending more for nicer accomodations in most cases but we love Disney resorts and can/would spend more there. But even renting a 2 br DVC last minute seems to run around $1500 a week (or maybe I am missing better deals) plus has the drawback of not being something we can lock down well in advance.


----------



## DeniseM (Aug 18, 2016)

We are suggesting renting, because you can't find what you want for $500 per year.

DVC is expensive, whether you rent from an owner, or buy a timeshare with enough points/TPU to trade in.  If DVC is your goal, then you will have to increase your budget significantly.

Please note that there is a lot of competition for DVC as well - you are competing against everyone else who wants to trade in, so it's not like just making a hotel reservation.  You have to be flexible, and learn the tricks of exchanging with RCI.


----------



## ChristiRose (Aug 18, 2016)

DeniseM said:


> We are suggesting renting, because you can't find what you want for $500 per year.


Ah that makes sense. Sorry I should have mentioned that per the wisdom of everyone who responded here, I've adjusted my expectations on MF.  Reality trumps preferences. 



> DVC is expensive, whether you rent from an owner, or buy a timeshare with enough points/TPU to trade in.  If DVC is your goal, then you will have to increase your budget significantly.


How can I learn more about the TPU of various timeshares?


----------



## DeniseM (Aug 18, 2016)

ChristiRose said:


> Ah that makes sense. Sorry I should have mentioned that per the wisdom of everyone who responded here, I've adjusted my expectations on MF.  Reality trumps preferences.
> 
> 
> How can I learn more about the TPU of various timeshares?



Unfortunately, you can't look up the TPU unless you already have an RCI Acct.

So, I would start by looking at the TUG Resorts or Reviews, in the areas where you would like to buy a _home resort_.  Pick out a few of the top rated resorts that interest you, and then ask questions about them in this thread.


----------



## ChristiRose (Aug 18, 2016)

DeniseM said:


> Unfortunately, you can't look up the TPU unless you already have an RCI Acct.


Oh okay, I will ask my MIL this weekend if she can show us her RCI account through Bluegreen.  

Thanks for all the helpful info!


----------



## DeniseM (Aug 18, 2016)

To look up the TPU you need to have the resort name, exact check-in date, and size unit, because it varies widely between season.

So you may want to check out the reviews in the areas where you'd like to have your home resort, so you have an idea of some high quality resorts that you want to look up.


----------



## tschwa2 (Aug 18, 2016)

Bluegreen uses a portal to trade through RCI and uses a cross over grid.  For a high season 1 br it will cost x number of bluegreen points regardless of whether the trade is into a  DVC or a no name 5th tier Orlando 1 br.  Unless your MIL owns another non Bluegreen her portal isn't going to have the information about tpu's from weeks resorts.

Crossover point grids from resorts like Wyndham and Bluegreen can be a decent way to get high value weeks like DVC.


----------



## ChristiRose (Aug 18, 2016)

tschwa2 said:


> Bluegreen uses a portal to trade through RCI and uses a cross over grid.  For a high season 1 br it will cost x number of bluegreen points regardless of whether the trade is into a  DVC or a no name 5th tier Orlando 1 br.  Unless your MIL owns another non Bluegreen her portal isn't going to have the information about tpu's from weeks resorts.
> 
> Crossover point grids from resorts like Wyndham and Bluegreen can be a decent way to get high value weeks like DVC.


Am I following you correctly - with Bluegreen trades through RCI, it costs a set number of BG points that is *not* based on TPU at all?


----------



## tschwa2 (Aug 18, 2016)

Yes.  If she owns Bluegreen points then there is a set number of points for an exchange based on the size of the unit, location, and the season.  It has nothing to do with tpu's. 

https://www.bluegreenowner.com/MS/ResortImages/Bluegreen_RCI_01_15_2010.pdf


----------



## Ty1on (Aug 18, 2016)

I personally don't think purchasing any timeshare with the intent of exchanging into DVC for 2 adults and 3 kids would be a sound decision.  DVC exchanges are spotty and limited, and I don't think anyone has seen a 2 BR up for exchange in the last ~2 years based on reading these forums.  And everyone is competing for the few 1 bedrooms that show up during school breaks.

If you looked at something like Club Wyndham Access, it would get you into Bonnet Creek Resort at 13 months out, enabling you to plan for the school breaks that everyone in your situation is forced to schedule.  Many think Bonnet Creek has better units than most DVC resorts (and awesome pools) and it is on WDW property, but does not get Disney Resort perks like extra magic hours and transportation or free parking.  
You also get 13 month reservations at East Coast beach resorts in Myrtle Beach and much of Florida, as well as Gatlinburg.  Further, you have the flexibility to use the points in Hawaii (at 10 months) and several places on the West Coast if you ever decide to change things up.


----------



## ChristiRose (Aug 18, 2016)

Ty1on said:


> I personally don't think purchasing any timeshare with the intent of exchanging into DVC for 2 adults and 3 kids would be a sound decision.  DVC exchanges are spotty and limited, and I don't think anyone has seen a 2 BR up for exchange in the last ~2 years based on reading these forums.  And everyone is competing for the few 1 bedrooms that show up during school breaks.


We've planned our last two trips specifically around avoiding school breaks and going during low predicted crowd levels (the kids are homeschooled so we have the flexibility to go anytime). My MIL was able to use her BG points about 6 months in advance to trade into Saratoga Springs for September 2015 (we were able to fit in a 1 BR then because youngest child was under 3 and MIL got a separate 1 BR for herself).  From what I've seen in researching, although Saratoga is limited to 4 people in a 1 BR, several other DVC resorts allow up to 5 people in a 1 BR but then maybe those resorts are a lot harder to get into.



> If you looked at something like Club Wyndham Access, it would get you into Bonnet Creek Resort at 13 months out, enabling you to plan for the school breaks that everyone in your situation is forced to schedule.  Many think Bonnet Creek has better units than most DVC resorts (and awesome pools) and it is on WDW property, but does not get Disney Resort perks like extra magic hours and transportation or free parking.


Thanks for info!  I found this listing for Bonnet Creek: 168,000 biennial odd year points for $800. Seems like a good deal? 
http://www.sellmytimesharenow.com/timeshares/index/content/details/AdNumber/1872877/sale/


----------



## DeniseM (Aug 18, 2016)

The real question is:  Is that enough points for a 2 bdm.?  Even if you think you can squeeze 5 in a one bedroom now, that won't last long.


----------



## Ty1on (Aug 18, 2016)

ChristiRose said:


> We've planned our last two trips specifically around avoiding school breaks and going during low predicted crowd levels (the kids are homeschooled so we have the flexibility to go anytime). My MIL was able to use her BG points about 6 months in advance to trade into Saratoga Springs for September 2015 (we were able to fit in a 1 BR then because youngest child was under 3 and MIL got a separate 1 BR for herself).  From what I've seen in researching, although Saratoga is limited to 4 people in a 1 BR, several other DVC resorts allow up to 5 people in a 1 BR but then maybe those resorts are a lot harder to get into.
> 
> 
> Thanks for info!  I found this listing for Bonnet Creek: 168,000 biennial odd year points for $800. Seems like a good deal?
> http://www.sellmytimesharenow.com/timeshares/index/content/details/AdNumber/1872877/sale/



I think it's a little high for 84K points per year, and I think you'll find that points total lacking...they don't mention what they want in closing costs but if it doesn't say free closing, I'd assume you pay $400 transfer fee plus $300 closing....You could get Club Wyndham Access on EBay for a similar price per point, especially if you wait until late Fall.  Bonnet Creek contract would get you in Bonnet Creek at 13 months the rest of Wyndham at 10 months.  Club Wyndham Access will get you into Bonnet Creek and about 70 other resorts at 13 months.  Plus, if you have Wyndham, your RCI bill is included in your Club fee and you can trade into DVC on the weeks side if something that works comes up.

No matter which way you go, being homeschool is going to help a lot.


----------



## ChristiRose (Aug 18, 2016)

Ty1on said:


> I think it's a little high for 84K points per year, and I think you'll find that points total lacking...they don't mention what they want in closing costs but if it doesn't say free closing, I'd assume you pay $400 transfer fee plus $300 closing....You could get Club Wyndham Access on EBay for a similar price per point, especially if you wait until late Fall.  Bonnet Creek contract would get you in Bonnet Creek at 13 months the rest of Wyndham at 10 months.  Club Wyndham Access will get you into Bonnet Creek and about 70 other resorts at 13 months.  Plus, if you have Wyndham, your RCI bill is included in your Club fee and you can trade into DVC on the weeks side if something that works comes up.


Can you get Club Wyndham Access not tied to a specific location? Just wondering since I know that buying Bonnet Creek specifically would mean no trades into DVC.


----------



## Ty1on (Aug 18, 2016)

ChristiRose said:


> Can you get Club Wyndham Access not tied to a specific location? Just wondering since I know that buying Bonnet Creek specifically would mean no trades into DVC.



Someone will correct me if I'm wrong, but with Bonnet Creek, you are using Wyndham points to trade in RCI.  Since those points are valid at any Wyndham property, the regional blacklist doesn't apply.  Like I said, I could be wrong.

Anyway, Club Wyndham Access is not tied to a particular resort.  You own a share in a trust which in turns owns contracts at various Wyndham resorts.  The maintenance fee is close to the same between them, and my observation is that you'll find more CWA for sale due to sheer volume.  I don't know that as fact, though.


----------



## bizaro86 (Aug 19, 2016)

I think there are two main things to decide here. Is DVC a deal breaker, and if it is can I make 1 bedrooms work. 

If DVC is not a deal breaker, then Orlando becomes an easy trade, especially if you plan to go at off peak times. RCI would have Bonnet Creek or the Hilton properties, while II would have the Marriott and Sheraton properties.

If you need a DVC two bedroom, you'll need to buy DVC points, and $3K isn't nearly enough money.

If you can make DVC 1 bedrooms work, then RCI is back in play, and you want to get the cheapest RCI trader you can. Recent DVC one bedroom deposits have been between 30 and 40 TPUs, so I'd try to buy a good trader with 40+ TPUs. 

IMO $3k is lots for that, and while $500/year probably isn't quite enough, it's probably close. I've sent you a PM with some other thoughts on that.

Your other destinations should be doable easily with that many TPUs, and you would probably be able to get two vacations out of them in a non-DVC year.


----------



## csxjohn (Aug 19, 2016)

ChristiRose said:


> Capital told us they can exchange with RCI but I'm wondering how much of this pitch was BS.
> 
> So thinking about this more, we would probably only use 1 week every other year so a biennial or a low point annual that allows us to rollover/bank for the following year could be an option? Or is that less cost effective overall?



A biennial pts purchase would be good if you only want to vaca every other year but as the number and frequency of pts goes down the cost per point goes up. Because of this looking for rental deals may work best for now.


----------



## csxjohn (Aug 19, 2016)

Passepartout said:


> ...Most MFs these days are around $800-$1000 for 1 bedroom 1 week per year in a small, independent resort, up to $3,000 in a 5 star, hotel branded deluxe suite in Hawaii.
> 
> ....
> 
> Jim



I don't think those figures are accurate.  The small independents that I own and have owned recently run more in the $550 to $600 range for 2br units.  Maybe I just got lucky though.


----------



## taterhed (Aug 19, 2016)

> ...Most MFs these days are around $800-$1000 for 1 bedroom 1 week per year in a small, independent resort, up to $3,000 in a 5 star, hotel branded deluxe suite in Hawaii.





csxjohn said:


> I don't think those figures are accurate. The small independents that I own and have owned recently run more in the $550 to $600 range for 2br units. Maybe I just got lucky though.



I agree. Certainly not trying to correct anyone or step on anyone's toes..... WADR

I think the figures cited ($800-$1000 MF for 1br EY, up to $3000 EY Hawaii) are min/avg for the network or hotel-type resorts.... but I think those would be at the higher end for small independent resorts. You can browse the resort MF's in the appropriate forum threads and confirm that.  Of course, HI is notoriously high on MF's regardless of affiliation.

While the MF's for network/hotel resorts are higher, there are usually less 'surprise' fees and assessments (certainly not the rule, but more likely--let's forget Point at Poipu for now). Of course, the rule of timeshares is 'fees will only go up." 

One thought: any resort located on an island, beach or other attractive hazard is more likely to see an assessment. Age and last-refurbish date can also be a factor for independent properties.

If you choose some specifics, I'm that many will be able and willing to provide advice.

cheers.


----------



## DeniseM (Aug 19, 2016)

csxjohn said:


> I don't think those figures are accurate.  The small independents that I own and have owned recently run more in the $550 to $600 range for 2br units.  Maybe I just got lucky though.



But - the OP is looking for a timeshare with high trading power to trade into DVC - do these timeshares have high trading power?  (40+ TPU)


----------



## ChristiRose (Aug 20, 2016)

So talked to my MIL today and she thought, but wasn't positive, that it cost her 8000 Bluegreen points (plus exchange fee) to trade for each Saratoga Springs 1 BR last fall.  Unfortunately the RCI portal is down right now so we weren't able to pull that up to try to look at current point costs or any inventory.  What my husband and I are considering now is whether it would make sense to buy a small number of points resale (such as 7000 annual) and add to his parents' account, split their flat $340 maintenance fee with them and pay for our per points fees (which if I'm getting accurate info from BG's site would be $0.05260 x 7000 = $368.20).  I did confirm that they are Trust Fund E which I think is considered the best trust (?), and they are Silver Premier level.  I realize one potential issue is whether we'd be able to snag a room at the DVC resorts that allow 5 people in a 1 BR which Saratoga does not. We would ideally want to go in September or October, not during fall breaks or Columbus Day weekend, so we'd be able to try at 10 or 11 months (since my husband gets to put in for next year vacation time off every November) to book, but we would also be open to trading into Bonnet Creek if that is easier to get.


----------



## csxjohn (Aug 21, 2016)

DeniseM said:


> But - the OP is looking for a timeshare with high trading power to trade into DVC - do these timeshares have high trading power?  (40+ TPU)



If you have a minute I'd like you to check that for me since I'm not an RCI member.  

I can get any week of the year except weeks 6 & 7 at Tropic Shores Resort in Daytona Beach Shores, Fla.

If you or anyone could find out what July 4th week would get in TPUs, Christmas and New Year's weeks, and then for grins any other mid summer week.

It would help with this discussion and would give me an Idea of what I have.

My MFs for my 2br units have been $600 for the past 3 years.

The other resort I owned recently was Alpine Village in Burnsville NC.  Those are fixed weeks and my MFs again were hovering right at $650.  I'm sure those TPUs would be much lower though.


Another one I own is Summer Bay, a 3br lock off but I think it was said above that since it's in Orlando it would not be suitable for trading into Orlando, although probably a good trader elsewhere.  That one I can get weeks 1-51 and spit to a full 1br and a 2 br.  Those fees are a little higher at $850.  It's not really a small independent but not at large as the hotel chains.

Thanks


----------



## cayman01 (Sep 3, 2016)

*A solution*

Okay here is a solution you might consider. This is based on the fact that you travel during quiet or value season times. It doesn't work for Christmas or summer etc.

 Buy a small Club Wyndham Access contract. 154k is the perfect amount for this example but things change so you may want to buy a few more.

 Use Wyndhams internal RCI exchange program to book TWO 1 BR at Disney. This will give you plenty of room for your family and MIL. It will cost 63k-77k in Wyndham points for each 1BR. The trick is booking two for the same week, but that is more likely during the time you travel.

 154k CWA points will cost about $1000 or less on eBay. Maintenance fees will run you around $850 per year. Add in two exchange fees ($219?) and you get into Disney with two condos for about $1300 for six people. Compare this to what it would cost using Bluegreen points and go the least expensive way.

 My two cents worth. Being fairly new to this I think I have all my ducks in a row. If not I am sure somebody will step n and correct me.


----------



## rickandcindy23 (Sep 3, 2016)

154K will get 2 Saratoga one bedrooms in off-season, very limited times of the year, but most seasons are 105K for a 1 bedroom.  

The OP hasn't been back for two weeks, so I wonder what she did?


----------



## shells (Sep 11, 2016)

Sorry to jump in but what is a DVC resort?


----------



## tschwa2 (Sep 11, 2016)

Disney Vacation Club


----------



## bogey21 (Sep 12, 2016)

ChristiRose said:


> 10) How much can you afford to spend every year for a maintenance fee that will come due right after Christmas, and increase each year? *Prefer under $500*



When I bought 6 Weeks at Independent HOA Controlled Resorts about 15 years ago $500 was my target for MFs.  If I were doing it today, I think I would target $750 to $800.

George


----------



## shells (Sep 14, 2016)

tschwa2 said:


> Disney Vacation Club



Got it thank you.


----------

