# Rumor:  WM rebranding new resorts to "Estancia"



## DaveNV (May 31, 2019)

I took the following to be purely sales weasel rumor.  In retrospect, I wonder if there was any truth to it

Yesterday while checking in to WM St. George, the woman at the Concierge desk tried to to talk me into taking the sales pitch tour.  I declined, despite her promise of it being worth 6,000 credits to take it. She even said it twice, implying I was an idiot for not taking the tour.  (Do they really give 6K credits for a sales pitch?  Seems pretty high, and makes me wonder about the pressure they use during the tour.)

In her rapid-fire offhanded schpiel, she threw out names of newer resorts I may not know about, (I already did), including Estancia here in St. George, WM Portland, and the new build in Moab.  I made a comment that I'd never be booking Estancia because I don't need larger unit sizes.  And she said, "And the credit costs are too high."  I agreed. 

Then she said something that caught my ear:  Regarding the newer resorts, she said, "They are all being renamed Estancia."  Her implication was that it was a naming thing, to include these new resorts under its own higher-end brand within the WM system.

I was extremely tired after an exhausting travel day and I just wanted the stupid parking pass, so I didn't press her.  But my takeaway understanding was that these newer resorts are all being assessed at higher credit values because they are somehow "better" than typical WM locations.  After a good night's sleep, I wondered if the build-out of these newer places are to a higher standard than regular WM locations, and that was what she meant.  Is "Estancia" a term or building plan style they're using for new builds?

I know it's better not to believe a conversation like this, especially after the travel day I'd had, but I'm curious if anyone else has heard this kind of comment?  Is Wyndham making an "Estancia" under-brand within the WM system?

Dave


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## rhonda (May 31, 2019)

I know nothing.  Just following along.  (Note: I'm already on the record for being skeptical and against the initial Estancia at St. Geo.)


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## sue1947 (May 31, 2019)

No.  St George sales people are among the worst for aggressiveness and lies; and that's saying a lot for Wyndham.  
Estancia is merely code for over priced.  Ignore them.  The same thing is true for the word deluxe added to a standard 2 BR; usually the only thing deluxe is the price.  
And remember, you do not need a parking pass at any WM resort.  There are a few places with parking garages where keys will get you in, but, again, you can safely ignore the sales desk, concierge /experience desks at all the resorts.  It's a sales ploy pure and simple.


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## geist1223 (May 31, 2019)

It is not 6,000 1 time use WM Points. It is 6,000 Wyndham Points that can help pay for a Hotel Room or with 4,000 more you could pay $50 in MF.

I wish that would stop putting in Granite Counters, Stone/Ceramic Tile Floors, Stainless Appliances, etc. Do you know how hard and expensive it is to repair a Granite Counter and Stone/Ceramic Floor after someone has dropped a heavy object like a full pot on it. I have been in several Penthouses where the floors are cracked and chipped but because of the difficulty and expensive of repair the cracked/chipped floors are left in place until a major remodel. Plus it would be harder to justify the hugh number of Points.


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## DaveNV (Jun 1, 2019)

I took these pictures at the entrance to the parking lot yesterday morning. These signs are directly across from each other. Notice the Estancia sign has absolutely nothing WorldMark about it. If you didn’t know, you wouldn’t know. Makes me wonder if they’re setting up for direct rentals or something. It just seems shady to me.

For whatever cause and cost, there were lights in many windows, and plenty of cars at Estancia as we came back last evening.  The WM side had more cars, but Estancia definitely had guests in residence.

Dave


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## geist1223 (Jun 1, 2019)

I do not know if it is true but shortly after Estancia was finished I heard that might also be selling some of the Condos as full time residences.


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## DaveNV (Jun 1, 2019)

geist1223 said:


> It is not 6,000 1 time use WM Points. It is 6,000 Wyndham Points that can help pay for a Hotel Room or with 4,000 more you could pay $50 in MF.
> 
> I wish that would stop putting in Granite Counters, Stone/Ceramic Tile Floors, Stainless Appliances, etc. Do you know how hard and expensive it is to repair a Granite Counter and Stone/Ceramic Floor after someone has dropped a heavy object like a full pot on it. I have been in several Penthouses where the floors are cracked and chipped but because of the difficulty and expensive of repair the cracked/chipped floors are left in place until a major remodel. Plus it would be harder to justify the hugh number of Points.




So the 6K is Wyndham points, not WM credits?  How sneaky of her!  She didn't say that at all.  She specifically said "credits," although as I think of it, she didn't say 6,000 *WORLDMARK* credits.  Hmm.  It would seem that sales weasels are not an endangered species!  LOL! 

Dave


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## DaveNV (Jun 1, 2019)

sue1947 said:


> And remember, you do not need a parking pass at any WM resort.  There are a few places with parking garages where keys will get you in, but, again, you can safely ignore the sales desk, concierge /experience desks at all the resorts.  It's a sales ploy pure and simple.



Thank you, Sue.  I did not know that valuable piece of information.  They had asked at the check-in desk about the make and color of car I was driving, and the state plate.  But it was the sales desk that gave me the actual pass.  I won't be making the same error again.

Dave


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## DaveNV (Jun 1, 2019)

geist1223 said:


> I do not know if it is true but shortly after Estancia was finished I heard that might also be selling some of the Condos as full time residences.



That's very interesting!  And it might explain the larger unit sizes and such.

Dave


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## mallthus (Jun 1, 2019)

This is not a thing. Estancia, like many newer properties, is a mixed ownership property. 

Our WM club owns units, but not all the units. Rather than having dedicated WM units, dedicated Wyndham units, dedicated deeded units, etc, these properties assign all units to all comers, based on reservations. It’s just that if, on paper, our WM club owns 50% of the units*, we’re guaranteed access to up to 50% of the units. Usually though, in practice, if reservations from WM owners don’t fill the WM quota, those units will be rented through other channels and if there’s no demand from other, non-WM owners, units above WM’s 50% will be offered to WM members via Bonus Time, etc. 

It’s a great way for club members to access more locations, but it’s also confusing and confusion is the bread and butter of smarmy salespeople.

* That’s an example. I don’t know any actual ownership percentages for individual properties. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## DaveNV (Jun 1, 2019)

Thanks. So then Estancia is an entity unto itself, and isn’t a new under-brand in WM. The woman’s comments make sense, in the context of a shared building, vs. a purpose-built WM location.

Now I wonder if Moab will be the same sort of thing?

Dave


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## ecwinch (Jun 1, 2019)

mallthus said:


> This is not a thing. Estancia, like many newer properties, is a mixed ownership property.
> 
> Our WM club owns units, but not all the units. Rather than having dedicated WM units, dedicated Wyndham units, dedicated deeded units, etc, these properties assign all units to all comers, based on reservations. It’s just that if, on paper, our WM club owns 50% of the units*, we’re guaranteed access to up to 50% of the units. Usually though, in practice, if reservations from WM owners don’t fill the WM quota, those units will be rented through other channels and if there’s no demand from other, non-WM owners, units above WM’s 50% will be offered to WM members via Bonus Time, etc.
> 
> ...



Our mixed ownership at other newer resorts is not as you describe. For instance Austin and Portland are mixed ownership, but we still have separate and dedicated inventory for both Club Wyndham and Worldmark. And using BT at Austin you will not be assigned a non-WM unit.

I would be surprised if that was not the same at Estancia.


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## ecwinch (Jun 1, 2019)

DaveNW said:


> Thanks. So then Estancia is an entity unto itself, and isn’t a new under-brand in WM. The woman’s comments make sense, in the context of a shared building, vs. a purpose-built WM location.
> 
> Now I wonder if Moab will be the same sort of thing?
> 
> Dave


I personally think this is just sales hooey. My understanding is that Esctania was added as a separate resort because the units where going to be more upscale with only 3/4 bedroom penthouse and presidential units. 

Because creating a sub-brand under WM makes little sense. Our governing documents convey the same rights to all members. And if it is a branding strategy why not use it for Portland, which came into the system after Estancia?

It was set as a separate resort to rationalize the credit values.


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## clifffaith (Jun 1, 2019)

DaveNW said:


> That you, Sue.  I did not know that valuable piece of information.  They had asked at the check-in desk about the make and color of car I was driving, and the state plate.  But it was the sales desk that gave me the actual pass.  I won't be making the same error again.
> 
> Dave



We go to Big Bear once or twice a year. Lots of parking and in an area they don't need to worry about outsiders taking our spaces (like they might on 4th of July at Pismo Beach). One time we had our permit, but it was down in the console or had fallen to the floor. We got a pre- printed note on our windshield saying we needed a parking pass, as did several other cars in our area of the parking lot. I figured someone hadn't met their quota and was trying to scare up business for the parking pass desk.


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## bbodb1 (Jun 1, 2019)

@DaveNW - Looks very familiar!  Hope you are enjoying your time in St. George!


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## DaveNV (Jun 1, 2019)

bbodb1 said:


> @DaveNW - Looks very familiar!  Hope you are enjoying your time in St. George!



Thanks.  We like SG a lot, and come here often.  I first visited here in 1974, and I've been coming here, or through here, ever since.  What's that, some 40+ years now?  This visit was to look at real estate options in the area.  Retirement is coming up fast, and I want to have a destination in mind.  It's been a good visit.  Unfortunately, we need to leave tomorrow morning and head home. Can't wait to be in the area again.

Dave


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## mash84121 (Jun 2, 2019)

The Estancia name came from the original name of the resort. The first building built at Estancia is not owned by Worldmark. When Worldmark bought the second building, they retained the name of the resort. This is similar to other Worldmarks that have the same name as the larger resort. I think gave it a different name because they are two separate resorts even though they are right next to each other and share the check in.

I don't see Worldmark using this brand outside of St. George.


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## bryjake (Jun 5, 2019)

I booked this resort last year through Wyndham
Booked a 1 bed room and was upgraded to a 3 bedroom Estanica suite
The resort was not full because it was in July and the temp was greater than 90F
We had a great time in Saint George
Hiked Zion, my wife's favorite hike

I did a bit more online research...
It appears Worldmark has taken over some of the units from a developer
It looks like it is a blended ownership site
That would explain the significant larger sizes of the rooms
Website https://estanciaresort.com/

It references it is available for "
*Rates*
*Suite – 2 Bedroom / 2 Bathroom (Sleeps 6-10): starting at $199 per night*
*Suite – 3 Bedroom / 3 Bathroom (Sleeps 8-12): starting at $229 per night*
*Suite – 4 Bedroom / 4 Bathroom (Sleeps 10-12): starting at $329 per night*
Each of our Suites are professionally cleaned and inspected prior to each guests arrival, ensuring that the interior spaces of our Suites are luxurious and pristine. There is a one-time cleaning fee charged for each booking that is non-negotiable and non-refundable. The rates are listed below:*Housekeeping / Cleaning Fees*2 Bedroom / 2 Bathroom – $85


3 Bedroom / 3 Bathroom – $95

4 Bedroom / 4 Bathroom – $145

Cancellation Policy: A deposit of one night’s room and tax  is required to secure a reservation. This is refundable until 30 days before the arrival date, at which time the final payment of the remaining balance is due. Within 30 days of arrival, the entire payment is nonrefundable, but dates for the reservation may be changed, subject to availability, with no penalty"


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## IsaiahB (Jun 6, 2019)

bryjake said:


> I booked this resort last year through Wyndham
> Booked a 1 bed room and was upgraded to a 3 bedroom Estanica suite
> The resort was not full because it was in July and the temp was greater than 90F
> We had a great time in Saint George
> ...



Wyndham acquired undeveloped land from the plat developer. They then built units and turned them over to WMTC. 
Estancia is separate due to the existing development plan / HOA.


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