# 2012 MF's



## jimf41 (Oct 20, 2011)

This is from Dave M's 2011 post

*I have modified the title of this thread to ask those who post to include:

Operating fee
Replacement fee
Property taxes
Total fee

Please also include any other items included in (or subtracted in arriving at) the total, such as the developer subsidy for Frenchman's Cove, Willow Ridge, Village d’Ile-de-France, Crystal Shores and Lakeshore Reserve.

I have updated the database of fees through 2010. I will post it in the FAQs for this forum by the end of this year and will include those 2011 fees that are available by that time.

*

Frenchmans Cove 2012 Platinum 2bdrm.

Operating fee...........$1308.24-------$51.00 increase
Developer Subsidy......-164.38---------24.38 decrease
Reserve......................229.62---------21.47 increase
Total........................*1373.48*--------96.96 increase

Est Prop tax.................232.50
Total W/ tax.............$1605.98

About a 7.5% increase


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## Numismatist (Oct 20, 2011)

You sure, I just got that same number for my Gold week.


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## m61376 (Oct 20, 2011)

Numismatist said:


> You sure, I just got that same number for my Gold week.



MF's are the same regardless of the season. The only small difference is where property taxes are billed separately, since those may differ.


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## Numismatist (Oct 20, 2011)

m61376 said:


> MF's are the same regardless of the season. The only small difference is where property taxes are billed separately, since those may differ.



My bad, i was thinking 2 bedroom versus 3 bedroom but i was 'seeing' Platinum versus Gold


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## MOXJO7282 (Oct 21, 2011)

*Marriott Monarch 2bedroom/2bath*

Another acceptable increase

Marriott Monarch 2bedroom/2bath

2011 Operating Fee 2011-01-11 702.58 
2011 Reserve Fee 2011-01-11 263.14 
2011 Property Tax Fee 2011-01-11 82.28 
Total Charges $1048.00 


Marriott Monarch 2bedroom/2bath

2012 Operating Fee  2012-01-11  723.67 
2012 Reserve Fee  2012-01-11  276.28 
2012 Property Tax Fee  2012-01-11  82.31 
Total Charges   $1082.26 

3.17% increase


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## PotentialMarriottBuyer (Oct 23, 2011)

*MF - Tax not included in Operating Fee?*

Hi All,

Sorry for the novice question, but I was hoping you could clarify the following calculation:


Frenchmans Cove 2012 Platinum 2bdrm.

Operating fee...........$1308.24-------$51.00 increase
Developer Subsidy......-164.38---------24.38 decrease
Reserve......................229.62---------21.47 increase
Total........................1373.48--------96.96 increase

Est Prop tax.................232.50
Total W/ tax.............$1605.98

I thought operating fee included property tax?  Is that wrong?  The current fees for 2011 that I see posted for Frenchman's Cove are about $1200.  Are they really $1200+$200 for taxes?  Thanks for the help!


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## jimf41 (Oct 23, 2011)

PotentialMarriottBuyer said:


> Hi All,
> 
> Sorry for the novice question, but I was hoping you could clarify the following calculation:
> 
> ...



The above operating fee is for 2012. It does not include property tax which varies by season. The USVI has had some issues with property tax and hasn't collected at Frenchmans Cove since the start. They worked out a deal where they would bill the tax for past years about every six months. When they catch up to the current year, 2014 if I remember correctly, MVCI intends to include the property tax with your MF bill.

Currently we are all being billed separately for property tax by the USVI.


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## dougp26364 (Oct 23, 2011)

PotentialMarriottBuyer said:


> Hi All,
> 
> Sorry for the novice question, but I was hoping you could clarify the following calculation:
> 
> ...



Property tax is often a line item rather than being included in the operating fee's for income tax purposes. If it's singled out, it might be used as a deduction on your income tax return. Consult your tax preparer to be certain.


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## qlaval (Oct 24, 2011)

Marriott Aruba Ocean Club
1 bedroom 
**Utilities 184.29
Surplus Return −25.30
Replacement Reserve 273.78
Operating Fee 637.15
------------------------------------------
2012 Total *$1069.92*

_**Electricity and Water/Sewer line items_


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## jpc763 (Oct 25, 2011)

Here is my EOY Ko Olina resort.
2010	2011	
$72.85	$66.00	-9.40% Property Tax
$80.58	$75.34	-6.50% Replacement Reserve    
$664.41	$717.03	7.92% Operating Fee	       
$817.84	$858.37	4.96%

So the taxes went down, the reserve replacement went down, but the operating fee went up close to 8% that affected the total to almost 5%.

Given the state of the economy and hosing in general, I am suprised that they would increase the operating fee as much as they did.

Of course, we are not in a position to do anything about it.


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## MOXJO7282 (Oct 27, 2011)

*13.44 % increase on Aruba Surf MFs*

This is a big jump after 2 years of going down. I don't have 2011 breakdown so don'y know where it shot up.

At $1373 this is still a great value considering what this still rents for but the days of $900 MFs and rentals of $4k+ plus are long gone.

2012 Reserve Fee     $265.10 
2012 Operating Fee $1108.76 
Total Charges          $1373.86


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## m61376 (Oct 27, 2011)

MOXJO7282 said:


> This is a big jump after 2 years of going down. I don't have 2011 breakdown so don'y know where it shot up.
> 
> At $1373 this is still a great value considering what this still rents for but the days of $900 MFs and rentals of $4k+ plus are long gone.
> 
> ...



ouch
Last year it was 1189.46, with the operating fee being 1053.63 and the reserve fee being 153.24 (with a reduction in fees of 17.41 last year). So the big jump is in the reserves.

3 BR at the SC: 1863.33, up from 1602. 38, a similar 14.1% jump, again largely from reserve fees (1409.55/217.55 with a reduction of 24.72 for 2011 versus 1486.95 operating expense and 376.38 reserve for 2012)


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## GregT (Oct 27, 2011)

I understand that the BOD meeting at Maui Ocean Club that was held in October approved a 3.5% increase in the MFs.  I do not know if that is to the total, or if that is just the operating component, with reserves/property taxes changing at a different scale.

Just an FYI -- I'm looking for confirmation online.

Thanks!


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## MOXJO7282 (Oct 27, 2011)

GregT said:


> I understand that the BOD meeting at Maui Ocean Club that was held in October approved a 3.5% increase in the MFs.  I do not know if that is to the total, or if that is just the operating component, with reserves/property taxes changing at a different scale.
> 
> Just an FYI -- I'm looking for confirmation online.
> 
> Thanks!


Let's hope that is the full increase. I can live with that if that turns out to be it. That represents a $64.14 increase. Not great but not horrible.


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## sdtugger (Oct 27, 2011)

GregT said:


> I understand that the BOD meeting at Maui Ocean Club that was held in October approved a 3.5% increase in the MFs.  I do not know if that is to the total, or if that is just the operating component, with reserves/property taxes changing at a different scale.
> 
> Just an FYI -- I'm looking for confirmation online.
> 
> Thanks!



Didn't Marriott win the property tax appeal?  If that area went down, the rest could have gone up significantly?  I'm not sure about that, but it will be interesting to see what happened in the details of the budget.


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## mcm21078 (Oct 27, 2011)

MOXJO7282 said:


> This is a big jump after 2 years of going down. I don't have 2011 breakdown so don'y know where it shot up.
> 
> At $1373 this is still a great value considering what this still rents for but the days of $900 MFs and rentals of $4k+ plus are long gone.
> 
> ...



is the $10 ARDA fee optional or do you have to pay it?


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## klpca (Oct 27, 2011)

*DSVII maintanance fees*

Operating fee...........$667.54
Reserve...................$348.94
Total.....................$1,016.48
*property taxes are billed separately - see below.

Based upon past information, I believe that this represents a 6.9% increase over 2011. I am basing that number on the amount shown in the prior year budget of $950.72. This is our first year of ownership, so I am not sure if that was the exact amount billed last year. 

Our property taxes were about $70 this year (based upon a $5.50 purchase price for future reference). The assessed value used by Riverside county was about $4,500 and the total bill included a separate timeshare fee of $25. (I'm fuzzy on those details because I received the Donatello property tax bill on the same day but I think those are the DSVII numbers).


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## MOXJO7282 (Oct 27, 2011)

mcm21078 said:


> is the $10 ARDA fee optional or do you have to pay it?



Optional for sure


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## pedro47 (Oct 27, 2011)

mcm21078 said:


> is the $10 ARDA fee optional or do you have to pay it?



The $10 ARDA is opitional and I beleive the average Marriott MF is about $1100 per year now.


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## DanCali (Oct 28, 2011)

MOXJO7282 said:


> This is a big jump after 2 years of going down. I don't have 2011 breakdown so don'y know where it shot up.
> 
> At $1373 this is still a great value considering what this still rents for but the days of $900 MFs and rentals of $4k+ plus are long gone.
> 
> ...



I wouldn't call it great value because there is an immediate impact on resale prices. Whatever value is left is reflected in the resale price.

Once the disparity between rental price and MFs goes away resale price is approximately zero... (or negative)


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## MOXJO7282 (Oct 28, 2011)

DanCali said:


> I wouldn't call it great value because there is an immediate impact on resale prices. Whatever value is left is reflected in the resale price.
> 
> Once the disparity between rental price and MFs goes away resale price is approximately zero... (or negative)



As I said its not what it used to be, but the "disparity" is still pretty large so that was my point. The Aruba Surf probably has one of the largest "disparities" in fact.  What your suggesting won't happen for a long time if ever.


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## MOXJO7282 (Oct 28, 2011)

*Good news on MF increase from Maui Ocean Club*

Maui Ocean Club - Original
Increase of 3.37% ($63.92) 

2BDRM OV 

2012 AOAO Operating Assessment  649.57 
2012 Property Tax Fee                   257.88 
2012 Operating Fee                       724.23 
2012 AOAO Reserve Assessment      74.36 
2012 Reserve Fee                          190.40 

Total Charges                               $1896.44


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## GregT (Oct 28, 2011)

Maui Ocean Club -- 3BR Lahaina Villas

2012 AOAO Operating Assessment  2012-01-11....$873.33.....................(2011--- $897)
2012 AOAO Reserve Assessment  2012-01-11..........99.98.....................(New this year)
2012 Property Tax Fee  2012-01-11........................346.72....................(2011 -- $408)
2012 Operating Fee  2012-01-11............................973.72....................(2011 -- $944)
2012 Reserve Fee  2012-01-11...............................255.99....................(2011 -- $213)
Total Charges...................................................$2,549.74..................(2011 -- $2,463)


I'm happy with this, and curious to see what the detail OpEx changes were.

Thanks!

Greg


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## GaryDouglas (Oct 28, 2011)

GregT said:


> ..., and curious to see what the detail OpEx changes were.


 
We won the two lawsuits with the State of Hawaii and the County of Maui, which affected our bottom line in the millions. If this hadn't happened, we would have seen increases like last year. I assume the board president will have details on this in his next annual newsletter.


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## mjm1 (Oct 29, 2011)

Desert Spring Villas 1:

                                            2012          2011      Change
                                           ------       -------    -------
Replacement Reserve               470.29       447.90        5%
Operating Fee                         755.49       617.45      22%
                                          --------     --------   -----
Totals                                 1,225.78     1,065.35     15%

We are new owners, so are surprised at the percentage increase in the operating fee.  However, I am not sure what increases were like in prior years. Insights from other owners at DSV1 would be appreciated.


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## dougp26364 (Oct 29, 2011)

*Grand Chateau 3 bedroom Platinum 7.5% increase*

These guys at Marriott are killing me. Our MGC ownership was hit with a 6.11% increase last year and now, this year it's a 7.5% increase. With very few amenities at MGC, what the heck is our HOA doing with the money?

MGC 3 bedroom Platinum: 
property taxes: $96.98
operating fee: $1,103.50
reserve fee: *$435.08*

Total $1,636.56 or a *7.5% increase over 2011*

Reserves of $435.08? For what? a pool the size of a shoebox, a Marketplace Express and an average fitness center? You've got to be kidding me! If people are tearing up the units that much, maybe HOA should be going after a few collections!


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## bobpark56 (Oct 29, 2011)

Of what use is this information...other than for bitching?


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## dougp26364 (Oct 29, 2011)

bobpark56 said:


> Of what use is this information...other than for bitching?



We keep track. Records are a useful way to determine appropriate management and if there is a pattern to be concerned about. It's also provides a database to determine what might be a good buy.....or a not so great buy when someone is considering buying a Marriott timeshares.


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## taffy19 (Oct 30, 2011)

*Maui Sequel - 2 BR Lahaina or Napili villa*

2012 Property Tax Fee  -  $288.93
2012 AOAO Replacement Reserve  -  $83.31
2012 AOAO Operating Fee  -  $727.78
2012 Replacement Reserve  -  $213.32
2012 Operating Fee  -  $811.45

Amount Due  -  $2,124.79

ARDA fee voluntary of $10.00 not included here.

Last year the total fee was $2,053.14.


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## BocaBoy (Oct 30, 2011)

It seems that quite a few TUGGERS seem pleased with 3-4% MF increases.  I think that is quite high in the current economic/inflation environment.  I would have been satisfied with 2% or less.


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## m61376 (Oct 30, 2011)

BocaBoy said:


> It seems that quite a few TUGGERS seem pleased with 3-4% MF increases.  I think that is quite high in the current economic/inflation environment.  I would have been satisfied with 2% or less.



I am not so sure it is that people are "pleased" with 3-4%, but relieved when theirs is not 13-14% that some locales are experiencing. I also think that we're all aware that there are costs that are escalating regardless of the economy (or maybe contributing to the economic crisis); for example, if you heat your home with oil, what is your pricing for this year as compared to last? I know in the Northeast it isn't pretty  

That said, I sure would like to know why the reserves went up so significantly at the Surf Club, generating huge MF increases. I guess we are paying for 2 years of decreases, so averaged out it is not out of line but nevertheless it is a huge increase percentage-wise.


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## dougp26364 (Oct 30, 2011)

BocaBoy said:


> It seems that quite a few TUGGERS seem pleased with 3-4% MF increases.  I think that is quite high in the current economic/inflation environment.  I would have been satisfied with 2% or less.



I would prefer it be zero, but I understand there are costs associated with running a resort and I'm certain the empolyee's expect a raise. 3% to 4% in this economy is acceptable. 

6.1% followed by 7.5%, and more specifically, a cash reserve fund that's higher than any other resort I know of, yet the resort has less amenites than most resorts, strikes me as unacceptable.


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## Lee55 (Oct 30, 2011)

qlaval said:


> Marriott Aruba Ocean Club
> 1 bedroom
> **Utilities 184.29
> Surplus Return −25.30
> ...




Aruba Surf Club MF 2012
Received our statement yesterday. The same costs for a 1-BR /Gold /OV.

The break down for a 2-BR unit 
Utilties 245.34
Surplus Return -36.32
Replacement Reserve 370.39
Operating Fee 835.78

Grand Total 1,426.19


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## MOXJO7282 (Oct 30, 2011)

Lee55 said:


> Aruba Surf Club MF 2012
> Received our statement yesterday. The same costs for a 1-BR /Gold /OV.
> 
> The break down for a 2-BR unit
> ...



Do you mean the Ocean Club? The Surf Club 2BDRM is $1373.46.


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## Michigan Czar (Oct 30, 2011)

MOXJO7282 said:


> Maui Ocean Club - Original
> Increase of 3.37% ($63.92)
> 
> 2BDRM OV
> ...



I like the small increase from year to year but why did the reserve go up so much? If my math is correct that is a 67% increase in reserve.


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## normab (Oct 30, 2011)

*St Kitts*

St Kitts 2012 Gold 2bdrm GV

Operating fee...........$1204.25
Reserve......................283.27
Property Tax………………….14.27
Total........................$1501.79


About a 3.7 % increase from last year.


Norma


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## Steve (Oct 30, 2011)

*Manor Club?*

Does anyone know the Manor Club fees for 2012?  I bought a week there this past summer, but the closing is going very slowly and it is not in my account yet.  I used to be an owner there, and I'm looking forward to being an owner again.

Thanks!

Steve


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## bobpark56 (Oct 30, 2011)

*Planning for Success?*



dougp26364 said:


> We keep track. Records are a useful way to determine appropriate management and if there is a pattern to be concerned about. It's also provides a database to determine what might be a good buy.....or a not so great buy when someone is considering buying a Marriott timeshares.



Hmmm...Will you be providing tools for identifying patterns? How is that going to work, anyway?

Your 2nd point makes more sense. But I think it implies, as a minimum, that the submitted results be sorted by resort if the inputs are to be useful. Do you propose to do that.

My rather negative reaction to this data collection proposal is much like my reaction to political proposals that sound great on the surface, but fail to provide affordable tools, financing, and support to carry the program through to the end. In short, what are the plans for success here?


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## rsackett (Oct 30, 2011)

Steve said:


> Does anyone know the Manor Club fees for 2012?  I bought a week there this past summer, but the closing is going very slowly and it is not in my account yet.  I used to be an owner there, and I'm looking forward to being an owner again.
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> Steve



Manor Club is not out yet.

Ray


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## grgs (Oct 30, 2011)

bobpark56 said:


> Hmmm...Will you be providing tools for identifying patterns? How is that going to work, anyway?
> 
> Your 2nd point makes more sense. But I think it implies, as a minimum, that the submitted results be sorted by resort if the inputs are to be useful. Do you propose to do that.



It hasn't been updated for a few years, but past Marriott mf have been sorted by resort on this TUG page: 

http://www.tug2.net/advice/marriottmf.htm



bobpark56 said:


> My rather negative reaction to this data collection proposal is much like my reaction to political proposals that sound great on the surface, but fail to provide affordable tools, financing, and support to carry the program through to the end. In short, what are the plans for success here?



I don't quite understand what your issue is?  The mf info is provided for interested parties to do with as they wish.  Why does anyone here have an obligation to provide "plans for success"?  

Glorian


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## Steve (Oct 30, 2011)

rsackett said:


> Manor Club is not out yet.
> 
> Ray



Thanks, Ray.  I didn't realize that.

Steve


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## dioxide45 (Oct 30, 2011)

bobpark56 said:


> Hmmm...Will you be providing tools for identifying patterns? How is that going to work, anyway?
> 
> Your 2nd point makes more sense. But I think it implies, as a minimum, that the submitted results be sorted by resort if the inputs are to be useful. Do you propose to do that.
> 
> My rather negative reaction to this data collection proposal is much like my reaction to political proposals that sound great on the surface, but fail to provide affordable tools, financing, and support to carry the program through to the end. In short, what are the plans for success here?



No one has an alterer motive here with this information. People post their MF. In some situations, some people may not have received their bill yet, so this information can be useful to them. MF history has been tracked for quite some time. People can use it for anything that they wish, but there isn't an obligation by anyone here to organize it in a way so someone else can deem it useful.


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## Superchief (Oct 30, 2011)

dougp26364 said:


> I would prefer it be zero, but I understand there are costs associated with running a resort and I'm certain the empolyee's expect a raise. 3% to 4% in this economy is acceptable.
> 
> 6.1% followed by 7.5%, and more specifically, a cash reserve fund that's higher than any other resort I know of, yet the resort has less amenites than most resorts, strikes me as unacceptable.



I feel your pain. I am afraid to see the increases at Oceana Palms and Ocean Pointe this year with the increased costs associated with shorter stays due to the DC points program.


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## dioxide45 (Oct 30, 2011)

Superchief said:


> I feel your pain. I am afraid to see the increases at Oceana Palms and Ocean Pointe this year with the increased costs associated with shorter stays due to the DC points program.



But I thought Marriott said that the DC point program was going to cover those extra costs? That was part of the reason for the skim and padded $0.40 pp DC trust point MF?


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## SueDonJ (Oct 31, 2011)

dioxide45 said:


> But I thought Marriott said that the DC point program was going to cover those extra costs? That was part of the reason for the skim and padded $0.40 pp DC trust point MF?



I still can't see how those extra costs can be charged to the Weeks owners, when the docs for Weeks are pretty clear that their fees have to be justified in the Operating Budgets.  Any blatant DC-related fees included in those budgets will be fairly transparent.  Plus, most of the increases this year are in the Reserve Fees.  What would those have to do with the DC?  There definitely seems to be a reason the HOA's are focusing on the Reserves - could it be that they're more concerned with any effects the spin-off will cause for resorts in the future?  Are they stockpiling for that reason?


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## dougp26364 (Oct 31, 2011)

Superchief said:


> I feel your pain. I am afraid to see the increases at Oceana Palms and Ocean Pointe this year with the increased costs associated with shorter stays due to the DC points program.



I think the majority of the problem is the ultra high standard Marriott sets for it's resorts and the favorable working relationship Marriott has with what I believe are some pretty high cost vendors. I'm pretty certain that both Ocean Pointe's HOA and Beachplace Towers HOA have had differences over the quality/cost factor in the refurbishments.

I try not to forget that Marriott requires a soft refurb every 5 years and a full refurb every 10 years. At least we're getting something for our ultra high cash reserves but, there's going to be a breaking point for owners at some point. They can not continue with 6 to 7% increases indefinately without it eventually taking a toll on owners. If MF's double every 10 to 15 years, the resorts will eventually be unsustainable. Grand Chateua is quickly becoming a financial problem child and I'm already to the point where I regret not only the initial purchase of an EOY week but the subsequent purchase of the corresonding EOY week.

Like you, I'm scared to see the Ocean Pointe assessment for 2012. It seems to me they've averaged between 6 and 7% each year. Removing the playground (for good reasons I've learned) and replacing it with a splash park isn't likely to help the situation.


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## MOXJO7282 (Oct 31, 2011)

I like this annual thread because I like to understand what others are paying for Marriott properties different than what I own.


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## m61376 (Oct 31, 2011)

I alo appreciate seeing where the increases are going across the board. For example, the Aruba SC increase was very high, but of course Joe's thread reminded me that they had, in fact, decreased over the past two years. Also, I see that many other resorts are experiencing large increases in reserve fees. Lastly, but maybe it's just me, it tends to be human nature to glance at the bill rather than comparing it to prior years and breaking down where the increases are going, so I do think it makes us better informed owners.


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## Lee55 (Oct 31, 2011)

MOXJO7282 said:


> Do you mean the Ocean Club? The Surf Club 2BDRM is $1373.46.



Sorry about that..It's the Ocean club....


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## armstrl (Nov 1, 2011)

*Marco Island - Crystal Shores Fees*

Developer Subsidy   -158.95
Operating Fee  1,304.09
Property Tax Fee   19.02
Replacement Reserve   252.96

Total  1,417.12


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## rthib (Nov 1, 2011)

One possible reason for increase MF and reserve is the number of foreclosures and people not paying MF.

Take a look on the other boards and you will see people talking about walking away from their units.

Most people assume that when the do not pay MF they are hurting MVCI but the truth is that it gets passed on to others.
So with more people late or not paying MF, the associations need to make sure they have a reserve to cover


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## dougp26364 (Nov 1, 2011)

rthib said:


> One possible reason for increase MF and reserve is the number of foreclosures and people not paying MF.
> 
> Take a look on the other boards and you will see people talking about walking away from their units.
> 
> ...



If you look at your billing and the total breakdown of your MF's, you'll see that bad debt expense is accounted for as a seperate line item under expenses. For instance Ocean Pointe estimated into their budget for 2011 a bad debt expense of $333,049. Grand Chateau's bad debt expense was $667,000 for 2011. These are in addition to the cash reserve funding.


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## rsackett (Nov 1, 2011)

Marriott Manor Club Plat. (MMC)

2012 Property Tax Fee....... 63.55  2011 Property Tax Fee..........63.73
2012 Replacement Reserve 206.00  2011 Reserve Fee...............188.00
2012 Operating Fee.......... 728.45 2011 Operating Fee.............714.27
2012 Total Charges......... $998.00 2011 Total Charges............$966.00

for a 3.3% increase

Ray


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## dougp26364 (Nov 1, 2011)

*Proposed budget for Ocean Ponite*

2 bedroom: 
Operating fee $808.64 
Reserve fee $273.11
Owners Service Fee/Club Dues $34.45
Property tax:
Silver season $186.85 
Gold season $209.76
Platinum season $307.79

Total Proposed: 
Silver season $1,303.05 
Gold season $209.76 
Platinum season $1,423.29

3 bedroom
Operating fee $972.82 
Reserve fee $328.56
Owners Service fee/Club Dues $34.45
Property Tax:
Silver season $263.53 
Gold season $313.67 
Platinum season $422.29

Total Proposed
Silver season $1,599.36
Gold season $1,649.50
Platinum Season $1,758.12

We own a 3 bedroom Silver season. The increase in MF's is ~5.8%. If memory serves me properly, Ocean Pointe has suffered approx 6% MF increases every year. It appears reserve funding has been increased $50/year for our week, which is a ~18% increse in the reserve.


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## pwrshift (Nov 1, 2011)

*BeachPlace slammed for a proposed 9.1% increase!!*

BEACHPLACE TOWERS PROPOSED BUDGET FOR 2012 - PLATINUM

2012 Property Tax Fee....... 46.25 2011 Property Tax Fee..........68.41
2012 Replacement Reserve 288.00 2011 Reserve Fee...............188.00
2012 Operating Fee.......... 745.28 2011 Operating Fee............674.67
*2012 Total Charges... $1,079.53 2011 Total Charges....$997.08*

*for a 9.1% increase*

Don't you just hate it when they tell you the increases, but not why?? *A President's letter would have been a great help...and might help avoid some 'owner anger'.*  We've had a couple of years with modest increases, so this increase is a little hard to understand without more info.

Activities up 26.9%
*Administration up 12.2%*
*Front Desk up 20.8%*
Income Tax up 19.8%
Maintenance up 12%
*Management Fee up 15.4%*
Pool Maintenance up 13.1%
Refuse Collection up 25.2%
*Garage parking up 65.6%*
*Net operating fee up 10.5%*
Reserve Fee up 13.4%
Property Tax *down *32.4%
Owner Services fee up 3%


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## dioxide45 (Nov 1, 2011)

pwrshift said:


> *Garage parking up 65.6%*



With Garage Parking up that much, do you suppose that they will be offering free parking to all Marriott owners?


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## Superchief (Nov 1, 2011)

dougp26364 said:


> 2 bedroom:
> Operating fee $808.64
> Reserve fee $273.11
> Owners Service Fee/Club Dues $34.45
> ...



I just reviewed the proposed budget, and a key contributor is 10% increase in administration. One item I have seen mentioned in several of my MVC budget proposals is a significant increase in medical insurance. Most companies (except for govt workers of course) I know are passing on a large portion of this increase to employees, so I don't think owners should be expected to pay all of these cost increases.


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## dioxide45 (Nov 1, 2011)

SueDonJ said:


> I still can't see how those extra costs can be charged to the Weeks owners, when the docs for Weeks are pretty clear that their fees have to be justified in the Operating Budgets.  Any blatant DC-related fees included in those budgets will be fairly transparent.



I am not sure how these DC related fees would be transparent. An increase in say Housekeeping, Front Desk, or Maintenance due to more transient stays (caused by DC) wouldn't not be transparent at all. Those costs are all added in to those individual buckets and all owners pay the increased cost.

In the past, the HOAs used to get the fee from lock off, split week, and daily stay occupancy options. That was to cover the extra costs of those types of usage. Those fees are gone for enrolled owners. So those costs have to fall somewhere.


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## dougp26364 (Nov 2, 2011)

Superchief said:


> I just reviewed the proposed budget, and a key contributor is 10% increase in administration. One item I have seen mentioned in several of my MVC budget proposals is a significant increase in medical insurance. Most companies (except for govt workers of course) I know are passing on a large portion of this increase to employees, so I don't think owners should be expected to pay all of these cost increases.



I guess it wouldn't matter if the medical cost is a line item or if it's rolled into another item on the budget. One way or another, increased medical costs are going to roll downhill. Owners are sitting at the bottom of that hill. 

Still, Marriott is but two of 7 timeshares we own. I have budgets, or proposed budgets for 5 of those 7. One timeshare had 0% increase, one had a 4.92% increase and another had a 1% increase. So Marriott is well above average for the timeshares we own when it comes to increases in MF's.


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## SueDonJ (Nov 2, 2011)

dioxide45 said:


> I am not sure how these DC related fees would be transparent. An increase in say Housekeeping, Front Desk, or Maintenance due to more transient stays (caused by DC) wouldn't not be transparent at all. Those costs are all added in to those individual buckets and all owners pay the increased cost.
> 
> In the past, the HOAs used to get the fee from lock off, split week, and daily stay occupancy options. That was to cover the extra costs of those types of usage. Those fees are gone for enrolled owners. So those costs have to fall somewhere.



If the Operating Budgets show percentage increases in those fees which could be DC-related that are out of whack with the historical percentage increases, I'd say that would be enough transparency to guess that DC-related costs are being unfairly charged to Weeks owners.

Somewhere in all of this don't we have to consider that the DC will be billed the same MF as we're being billed for all of the Weeks that have been conveyed to the Trust?  So if they're playing fast and loose with the budgets in order to charge us more than what should be our fair share, wouldn't they be also effectively overcharging themselves too?

*********
On a related note, today the Club Dues fees for enrolled Weeks are showing as payable on my-vacationclub.com.


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## flyboy0681 (Nov 2, 2011)

One thing I've never been able to understand is why the maintenance fee is different for Platinum versus Gold Versus Bronze, etc.

Maintaining the property is a constant expense and doesn't know from a particular season, so why should it be a variable expense based upon when you occupy?

If the property is replacing TV's in the units with a flat screen, why should Platinum's have to pony up more for it? It's not as if during week 52 the TV starts working better or the new carpet is plusher.


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## MOXJO7282 (Nov 2, 2011)

flyboy0681 said:


> One thing I've never been able to understand is why the maintenance fee is different for Platinum versus Gold Versus Bronze, etc.
> 
> Maintaining the property is a constant expense and doesn't know from a particular season, so why should it be a variable expense based upon when you occupy?
> 
> If the property is replacing TV's in the units with a flat screen, why should Platinum's have to pony up more for it? It's not as if during week 52 the TV starts working better or the new carpet is plusher.



Its not different. Purchase price is but not annual maintenance fees, which are the same no matter the season. At least not at Marriott.


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## flyboy0681 (Nov 2, 2011)

MOXJO7282 said:


> Its not different. Purchase price is but not annual maintenance fees, which are the same no matter the season. At least not at Marriott.



I'm basing my statement on what I see on the following spreadsheet, which has been compiled by a member of this board. Most "metals" appear to be the same but there are some that are different, such as 2br Grande Vista Platinum, which is listed as $955 versus Gold at $926. Harbor Lake Plat is listed as $2,550 while Gold is $1,950, and Manor Club Plat is $2,375 (yeowzer!) and Gold $1,375.

http://media.tripod.lycos.com/2933232/1806683.pdf

Maybe I'm just interpreting it wrong?


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## SueDonJ (Nov 2, 2011)

In some states there could be differences in the property taxes between seasons as well as between same units/seasons because of purchase prices.  The differences you're seeing at Grande Vista are due to property tax differences but could also be because some units are part of the Florida Club and some are not.

I think the differences you're seeing at Harbour Lake and Manor Club are because you're transposing the DC-Points allotments columns with the MF columns - all Harbour Lakes' 2011 MF were $959 and Manor Club's were $966.

{eta} Now NJMOM's post after mine shows property tax differences for 2012 Harbour Lakes MF.  Greg's chart doesn't show a difference between Plat and Gold for 2011 - is it new this year or is it an error in the chart?  Hmmmm.


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## NJMOM2 (Nov 2, 2011)

*Estimated MF for Harbour Lake*

Operating fee $680.48
Reserve fee $212.00
Property tax:
   Gold season $83.46
   Platinum & Platinum Plus season $106.69

Total Proposed: 
Gold season $975.94
Platinum & Platinum Plus season $999.17

Gold Increase 4.5%
Platinum & Platinum Plus increase 4.2%


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## GaryDouglas (Nov 2, 2011)

*Chill*



Michigan Czar said:


> I like the small increase from year to year but why did the reserve go up so much? If my math is correct that is a 67% increase in reserve.


 
It may be because they have scheduled the replacment of all the chillers for the original buildings. Hopefully the president will delineate the reason/s why in his next letter...


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## dougp26364 (Nov 2, 2011)

GaryDouglas said:


> It may be because they have scheduled the replacment of all the chillers for the original buildings. Hopefully the president will delineate the reason/s why in his next letter...



The reserve has gone up 50+% at both Grand Chateau and Ocean Pointe as well. In fact, Marriott's increases alone are almost as much as the total cash reserve at other timeshares. 

I'm all for protecting the resort with adaquate cash reserves but I question why Marriott is sometimes double what HGVC is charging for similar quality. For instance, our 2 bedroom Las Vegas Strip HGVC collects $147 in cash reserves while Grand Chateau is a little over $400 for our 3 bedroom unit.


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## bazzap (Nov 5, 2011)

*Phuket Beach Club 2.84% increase*

We have not seen the detail yet, but the Phuket Beach Club MFs for 2012 will have a 2.84% increase.
As we understand inflation in Thailand is running at 4.1% and the minimum wage is due to rise by 50%, this seems to show well managed financial control.
We wish this was reflected across all our the resorts where we own weeks.


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## rsackett (Nov 5, 2011)

flyboy0681 said:


> I'm basing my statement on what I see on the following spreadsheet, which has been compiled by a member of this board. Most "metals" appear to be the same but there are some that are different, such as 2br Grande Vista Platinum, which is listed as $955 versus Gold at $926. Harbor Lake Plat is listed as $2,550 while Gold is $1,950, and Manor Club Plat is $2,375 (yeowzer!) and Gold $1,375.
> 
> http://media.tripod.lycos.com/2933232/1806683.pdf
> 
> Maybe I'm just interpreting it wrong?



Manor Club Plat is $998 not $2375, big difference!

Ray


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## aka Julie (Nov 5, 2011)

flyboy0681 said:


> I'm basing my statement on what I see on the following spreadsheet, which has been compiled by a member of this board. Most "metals" appear to be the same but there are some that are different, such as 2br Grande Vista Platinum, which is listed as $955 versus Gold at $926. Harbor Lake Plat is listed as $2,550 while Gold is $1,950, and Manor Club Plat is $2,375 (yeowzer!) and Gold $1,375.
> 
> http://media.tripod.lycos.com/2933232/1806683.pdf
> 
> Maybe I'm just interpreting it wrong?



You were looking at the DC points column -- how many (on average) DC points it takes to book in that season.  Big difference that the MF column.


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## classiclincoln (Nov 5, 2011)

While not in the Marriott system, the 2012 fees for our Ren Aruba (managed by Marriott) are $664, up from $641 the last 2 years.  Not bad.


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## minoter (Nov 6, 2011)

The BeachPlace Towers budget is the Marriott proposed budget, not the Board approved budget. The Board and Finance committee are also concerned about the increase in the fee for 2012, especially the items Powershift pointed out in his post. I have had discussions with many owners regarding the increases in the budget sent to BP owners by Marriott.

Please be assured that the BeachPlace Board is working hard to have Marriott justify these increases and that the budget you received is not the final approved budget. The Board has challenged Marriott in past years regarding the budget increases. We intend to continue this process through our finance committee structure.

There has been no change in the parking policies at BeachPlace. The Board and Finance committee are meeting with Marriott tomorrow. The budget will change. There is a 15 year refurbishment in 2013 which help explains the reserve increase. The Board wants to avoid any special assessment for this refurbishment.

The  blended maintenance fee has been flat (+/-1%) for the last three years and the Association is in a good financial position. 

Eric Minotti
Board President


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## pwrshift (Nov 6, 2011)

*Dump Marriott management?*

Thanks Eric ... I knew you'd come through for us owners.  Interesting to see that it's Marriott's proposal and not approved by the HOA as yet.  That leaves me still thinking that Marriott wants to move all MF up, not just at BPT, so that they align closer to the 'point' MF they charge to those who bought DC points....which would represent a huge increase across the board for currently sold out resorts.

If they go too far, the HOA may have to look into replacing Marriott -- not something I'd want to do, but when you think about the BPT MF in 10 years time using percent increases Marriott is famous for, it may be inevitable we'll have to dump Marriott management, if that's even possible with the new voting rights for those who have signed up as legacy members.

Brian


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## SueDonJ (Nov 6, 2011)

pwrshift said:


> Thanks Eric ... I knew you'd come through for us owners.  Interesting to see that it's Marriott's proposal and not approved by the HOA as yet.  That leaves me still thinking that Marriott wants to move all MF up, not just at BPT, so that they align closer to the 'point' MF they charge to those who bought DC points....which would represent a huge increase across the board for currently sold out resorts.
> 
> If they go too far, the HOA may have to look into replacing Marriott -- not something I'd want to do, but when you think about the BPT MF in 10 years time using percent increases Marriott is famous for, it may be inevitable we'll have to dump Marriott management, *if that's even possible with the new voting rights for those who have signed up as legacy members*.
> 
> Brian



Just about what I bolded - *the voting restriction that was a part of the Enrollment Agreement when the DC was first rolled out doesn't exist anymore.* Here's TUGger Cmore's post from when the change was first reported back in late February.  If you go through the links for the enrollment process on your my-vacationclub.com account you'll see that Section 1(e) has been deleted from the Enrollment Terms and Conditons.  *Marriott no longer has a legal influence in how an enrolled Weeks Owner can or can't vote* (if in fact they ever did, if it was even enforceable when it was in place.)

[eta]  I'm not yelling at you, Brian, with the bolding.  It's just that this has been mentioned several times in different threads since that first notice but folks still seem to be under the wrong impression.


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## LAX Mom (Nov 6, 2011)

Marriott Summit Watch:

2012 Property Tax Fee...... 68.91       
2012 Reserve  Fee............282.58       
2012 Operating Fee......... 832.57    

*2012 Total Charges...... $1,184.06* 


4.9% increase from 2011 MF of $1,128.53


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## AMJ (Nov 6, 2011)

Cypress Harbour Sport Week 


  CY*6723*47 	2012 Operating Fee 	  	$634.29 	 
  CY*6723*47 	2012 Reserve Fee 	  	$285.00 	 
  CY*6723*47 	2012 Property Tax Fee 	$77.48 	 

  	Total amount 	  	  	$996.77


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## Bunk (Nov 6, 2011)

pwrshift said:


> BEACHPLACE TOWERS PROPOSED BUDGET FOR 2012 - PLATINUM
> 
> COPIED IN PART:
> 
> ...




Has anyone seen the formula being used to determine how much additional money the Destination Club pays the HOA when the Unit is rented for less than one week.


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## pwrshift (Nov 6, 2011)

SueDonJ said:


> [eta]  I'm not yelling at you, Brian, with the bolding.  It's just that this has been mentioned several times in different threads since that first notice but folks still seem to be under the wrong impression.



Just the thought that Marriott tried to slip in this dirty underhanded voting change in the beginning (or anytime) was enough to keep me and many others from joining.   Once I made the decision not to join I didn't keep up on the DC crap and could again sleep at night.  Because so many unsigned owners don't even vote, Marriott probably has enough votes to overwhelm any 'dump Marriott' vote anyways...but it still doesn't make them good guys in my book as the annual raising of MF far more than the inflation rate (or pay raise percent) is disgusting.  We own nothing and have to pay more for it.


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## minoter (Nov 6, 2011)

Bunk,
At BeachPlace, we have asked to see the calculation and expect it to be presented to us at tomorrow's BeachPlace finance committee meeting.
Eric


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## SueDonJ (Nov 7, 2011)

Bunk said:


> Has anyone seen the formula being used to determine how much additional money the Destination Club pays the HOA when the Unit is rented for less than one week.





minoter said:


> Bunk,
> At BeachPlace, we have asked to see the calculation and expect it to be presented to us at tomorrow's BeachPlace finance committee meeting.
> Eric



Weeks have always been available for nightly rental through marriott.com.  Has Marriott historically paid the resorts for those related fees, and given the HOA's the formula they used for them?


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## fizzysoup (Nov 7, 2011)

*Phuket Beach Club*

Correct Bazzap,

The original proposal was for a 4.64% increase for 2012 which included a 25% increase in the Reserve Fund for 2012, dropping to a 10% increase for 2013 & a further 10% increase for 2014. However after some discussions it was agreed that Management would look to smooth out the increase in Reserve Fund across the 3 year period to 15% year on year. Thus it was possible to reduce the overall MF for 2012 to 2.84%.

As you know the PBC has undergone a significant refurbishment this year, and soft furnishing should be good for another 5 years.  



bazzap said:


> We have not seen the detail yet, but the Phuket Beach Club MFs for 2012 will have a 2.84% increase.
> As we understand inflation in Thailand is running at 4.1% and the minimum wage is due to rise by 50%, this seems to show well managed financial control.
> We wish this was reflected across all our the resorts where we own weeks.


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## RBERR1 (Nov 7, 2011)

*CYPRESS HARBOUR SPECIAL WEEK*

Fiscal Year Description Due Date Amount Due 
2012 Operating Fee  2012-01-11  634.29 
2012 Reserve Fee  2012-01-11  285.00 
2012 Property Tax Fee  2012-01-11  93.94 
Total Charges   $1013.23 

 5.4% increase on 2011

Interesting property taxes increased almost 16%


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## MOXJO7282 (Nov 8, 2011)

*Kauai Beach Club nice 5.92% reduction!!*

2BDRM OV

2012
Reserve Fee                           -  214.80 
AOAO Operating Assessment   - 603.97 
Property Tax Fee                    - 93.13 
Operating Fee                        - 551.96 
Total Charges                        $1569.54 

I don't have the breakdown from 2011 because I bought this unit only late last year but the total was $1663. Don't believe it included any special assessment. If no assessment, this represents a 5.92% ($93.46) reduction in maintenance fees.

Awesome!!


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## RBERR1 (Nov 8, 2011)

*Sunset Pointe MF*

Interval Description Due Date Amount Due   

  Reserve Fee  2012-01-18 $253.94   
  Property Tax Fee  2012-01-18 $64.06   
  Operating Fee  2012-01-18 $662.21   

  Total amount     $980.21   

6.2% Increase


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## sparty (Nov 8, 2011)

SueDonJ said:


> Weeks have always been available for nightly rental through marriott.com.  Has Marriott historically paid the resorts for those related fees, and given the HOA's the formula they used for them?



Was there any response from the finance committee?  Overall (not just short stays), looks like the trust MF went up by 1 cent, about a 2.5% increase, where just eyeballing it here most MF have increased 4-6% (counting those <= 0% too). 

Trust increase is 2.5%, most week owners 4-6%? Is Marriott trying to send a message, trust MF's hikes much lower than week owner hikes? Buy trust points to save in MF's?

Not all data is in. Barony I haven't seen but the meeting was Oct 28. I was hoping (expecting?) Barony BOD would at least post on-line the approved 2012 budget/MF.


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## jimf41 (Nov 8, 2011)

Trust MF's were way higher than weeks fees to begin with so maybe they didn't have to hike them up as much. Actually I'm surprised they raised them at all. They are not helping sales with that decision.


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## GregT (Nov 8, 2011)

jimf41 said:


> Trust MF's were way higher than weeks fees to begin with so maybe they didn't have to hike them up as much. Actually I'm surprised they raised them at all. They are not helping sales with that decision.



I was very surprised to see the increase in Trust MFs.   I recall early on I did a guesstimate based upon the original Trust properties and the related MFs, and thought the MFs averaged about $0.36/Trust Point.  I thought this gave Marriott a little bit of time before the MFs were raised, but it happened more quickly than I expected.

This may also be a reflection of the inclusion of Ritz properties and Grand Chateau properties, helping pulling up the MFs.  But next year is probably looking like $0.42, then $0.43, then.....

We will see.

Best,

Greg


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## winger (Nov 8, 2011)

GregT said:


> I was very surprised to see the increase in Trust MFs.   I recall early on I did a guesstimate based upon the original Trust properties and the related MFs, and thought the MFs averaged about $0.36/Trust Point.  I thought this gave Marriott a little bit of time before the MFs were raised, but it happened more quickly than I expected.
> 
> This may also be a reflection of the inclusion of Ritz properties and Grand Chateau properties, helping pulling up the MFs.  But next year is probably looking like $0.42, then $0.43, then.....
> 
> ...


I was *assured *by several sales reps (two at Corporate in Orlando) right at the launch of the DC that the Trust MF's are likely to stay stagnant for several years to come...if I recall correctly, their rational was Marriott built in enough "buffer" and due to good planning.

That said, not too surprising to see the increase.


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## aka Julie (Nov 8, 2011)

sparty said:


> Was there any response from the finance committee?  Overall (not just short stays), looks like the trust MF went up by 1 cent, about a 2.5% increase, where just eyeballing it here most MF have increased 4-6% (counting those <= 0% too).
> 
> Trust increase is 2.5%, most week owners 4-6%? Is Marriott trying to send a message, trust MF's hikes much lower than week owner hikes? Buy trust points to save in MF's?
> 
> Not all data is in. Barony I haven't seen but the meeting was Oct 28. I was hoping (expecting?) Barony BOD would at least post on-line the approved 2012 budget/MF.



As I recall, last year Barony posted their MF really, really late which cut down on the time to pay the bill.  I hope they're a little more prompt this year.


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## SueDonJ (Nov 8, 2011)

sparty said:


> ... Not all data is in. Barony I haven't seen but the meeting was Oct 28. I was hoping (expecting?) Barony BOD would at least post on-line the approved 2012 budget/MF.





aka Julie said:


> As I recall, last year Barony posted their MF really, really late which cut down on the time to pay the bill.  I hope they're a little more prompt this year.



Yep, I'm waiting on Barony and SurfWatch as well.  Looking through the 2011 MF thread it looks like Barony's came out last year on 11/15 and SW's on 11/26.

I thought when this thread started that it seemed so early for MF bills to be out.  Then TUGger minoter explained that the BeachPlace fees that were posted were actually not official but only the proposed budget from Marriott.  That made me wonder if any of the other early postings in the thread could also be proposed and not yet official?  I dunno.    Before this thread I didn't even know that some resorts released the proposed Marriott budgets - from Barony and SW I've only ever gotten the official budgets after the boards approved them.


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## AMJ (Nov 8, 2011)

You can view the 2012 Operating Budget for Barony by clicking on the View Maintenance Fee Packages and Inserts link instead of the Check Status/Make a Payment.


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## SueDonJ (Nov 8, 2011)

Thanks, AMJ.  I'm seeing the budgets for both Barony and SW now where I wasn't seeing them earlier.   

*********

*2012 Barony Beach Club*
$800.00 Operating Fee (including $95.41 Property Tax)
$235.00 Reserve
*$1,035.00 Total*
(2011 - $665.14 Oper, $94.86 Tax, and $240.00 Res = $1,000.00)

*********

*2012 SurfWatch 3BR*
$993.81 Operating Fee (including $81.59 Property Tax)
$214.28 Reserve
*$1,208.09 Total*
(2011 - $883.60 Oper, $79.39 Tax, and $204.08 Res = $1,167.07)

*********

*2012 SurfWatch 2BR*
$855.23 Operating Fee (including $70.21 Property Tax)
$184.40 Reserve
*$1,039.63 Total*
(don't know 2011 figures)


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## sparty (Nov 8, 2011)

SueDonJ said:


> Thanks, AMJ.  I'm seeing the budgets for both Barony and SW now where I wasn't seeing them earlier.
> 
> *********
> 
> ...



They were not there earlier today.  Some enterprising individual maybe helped get them there.


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## SueDonJ (Nov 9, 2011)

sparty said:


> They were not there earlier today.  Some enterprising individual maybe helped get them there.



You and I must have been checking at the same times; you're right, they weren't there until sometime last evening.  Not sure it took an enterprising individual to get them there, though - it seems like the folks at my-vacationclub.com are just uploading them as they're coming in from the resorts.  Still no invoices for Barony and SW yet but those should be up soon.

Now about the pleas that we don't use credit cards to pay our MF bills - this is one campaign I just can't support.  My combined MF and Club Dues payments net over 30K Marriott Rewards Points and 1 Elite Night, and I'm not willing to give that up.  I'd be happy to make cash payments if the resorts could work with Marriott to come up with some creative alternative that would still give us the same Marriott Rewards credit/status, but as long as our choice is either one or the other, I'm staying with the Marriott VISA benefits.


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## RBERR1 (Nov 9, 2011)

SueDonJ said:


> You and I must have been checking at the same times; you're right, they weren't there until sometime last evening.  Not sure it took an enterprising individual to get them there, though - it seems like the folks at my-vacationclub.com are just uploading them as they're coming in from the resorts.  Still no invoices for Barony and SW yet but those should be up soon.
> 
> Now about the pleas that we don't use credit cards to pay our MF bills - this is one campaign I just can't support.  My combined MF and Club Dues payments net over 30K Marriott Rewards Points and 1 Elite Night, and I'm not willing to give that up.  I'd be happy to make cash payments if the resorts could work with Marriott to come up with some creative alternative that would still give us the same Marriott Rewards credit/status, but as long as our choice is either one or the other, I'm staying with the Marriott VISA benefits.



I agree with you.  Maintenace fees are a lot of cash especially if you own more than 1 timeshare and you get good Marriott Visa benefits for putting them on the card.  Its also easy because you don't have to worry if you own and you live abroad.


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## SueDonJ (Nov 9, 2011)

RBERR1 said:


> I agree with you.  Maintenace fees are a lot of cash especially if you own more than 1 timeshare and you get good Marriott Visa benefits for putting them on the card.  Its also easy because you don't have to worry if you own and you live abroad.



It's interesting how this is probably the number one issue where the majority ownership will most likely act in such a way that they'll be supporting Marriott's stance rather than the individual resort BODs', despite the fact that they're at odds with each other.  Marriott uses the MRP relationship to sell its timeshares and they're not wrong - using the Marriott VISA for all charges related to the timeshares really is beneficial to owners.  But the BOD's stance is correct as well - if ALL owners paid MF's with cash then they could be better served, financially at the individual resorts' level, by forfeiting any MRP benefits.

It's not something I have to think twice about, though.  I want those points.


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## potchak (Nov 10, 2011)

Waiohai EOY Platinum 2nd Island view:
Fiscal Year Description 	Due Date 	Amount Due
2012 AOAO Operating Assessment 	2012-01-18 	230.60
2012 Property Tax Fee 	2012-01-18 	83.20
2012 Operating Fee 	2012-01-18 	392.13
2012 AOAO Reserve Assessment 	2012-01-18 	22.37
2012 Reserve Fee 	2012-01-18 	84.34
Total Charges 	  	$812.64


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## potchak (Nov 10, 2011)

Anyone know about Oceanwatch yet? I am still waiting for my Silver week to be loaded into my account (closed on it July 16, and still waiting to be recognized)


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## SueDonJ (Nov 10, 2011)

potchak said:


> Anyone know about Oceanwatch yet? I am still waiting for my Silver week to be loaded into my account (closed on it July 16, and still waiting to be recognized)



It's not up yet on the OceanWatch page at my-vacationclub.com.  (Anybody can check any resorts' Operating Budgets by signing in and clicking through the "Resort Search" prompts.  When you get to the page for a particular resort, click on the "Weeks Owners" tab and scroll down for the list of financials.)


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## rsackett (Nov 10, 2011)

Harbour Point week 32

...................................2012 ............... 2011
Replacement Reserve..... 335.80 ............ 318.68
Operating Fee .............. 686.40 ............ 671.11
Property Tax Fee ........... 56.73 .............. 55.91
TOTAL .......................1078.93 ............1045.70

3.18% increase

Ray


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## MOXJO7282 (Nov 10, 2011)

SueDonJ said:


> You and I must have been checking at the same times; you're right, they weren't there until sometime last evening.  Not sure it took an enterprising individual to get them there, though - it seems like the folks at my-vacationclub.com are just uploading them as they're coming in from the resorts.  Still no invoices for Barony and SW yet but those should be up soon.
> 
> Now about the pleas that we don't use credit cards to pay our MF bills - this is one campaign I just can't support.  My combined MF and Club Dues payments net over 30K Marriott Rewards Points and 1 Elite Night, and I'm not willing to give that up.  I'd be happy to make cash payments if the resorts could work with Marriott to come up with some creative alternative that would still give us the same Marriott Rewards credit/status, but as long as our choice is either one or the other, I'm staying with the Marriott VISA benefits.


Same here. We get 80k + points per year paying our MFs using the Marriott Visa so that is a huge perk for us.


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## sparty (Nov 10, 2011)

MOXJO7282 said:


> Same here. We get 80k + points per year paying our MFs using the Marriott Visa so that is a huge perk for us.



$16K in purchases, $1K value, 6.25% return, not bad.  Just a lot of money in general though.

I wonder what Chase thinks about all this, "Credit card fees are too high, please don't use your Chase Marriott credit card"..  That will build some nice B2B love..Next Chase will say, "Marriott hotels are not within the corporate travel policy due to high price and should not be used"

Without playing up the credit card cost so much why not more silently offer a compelling MRP incentive for paying cash.  Seems there has to be an economically grounded formula for making this work.  Certainly 0 MRP for cash, and 5X MRP for Credit card isn't the right formula. 5X vs 5X? 4x vs 5X?


----------



## MOXJO7282 (Nov 14, 2011)

Grande Ocean

                                       2012 ............... 2011
 Replacement Reserve..... 259.40........... 244.95
 Operating Fee .............. 867.15  .......... 839.41
  TOTAL .......................1126.55 ............1084.16

3.9% increase $42.39


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## rsackett (Nov 14, 2011)

MOXJO7282 said:


> Grande Ocean
> 
> 2012 ............... 2011
> Replacement Reserve..... 259.40........... 244.95
> ...



They do not charge for taxes?

Ray


----------



## MOXJO7282 (Nov 14, 2011)

rsackett said:


> They do not charge for taxes?
> 
> Ray



That was built into the operating fee. Incidently property taxes only went up less than $1 to $106.96 I think.


----------



## KauaiMark (Nov 17, 2011)

*Kauai Marriot Beach Club - 2012 1br/2ba*

Operating Fee :..................501.78
Property tax Fee:.................84.66
AOAO Replacement Reserve:...96.07
AOAO Operating Fee:...........549.06
Replacement Fee: 195.27

Total: 1426.84


----------



## dioxide45 (Nov 17, 2011)

*Gold 2BR Harbour Lake*

2012 Operating Fee....$663.38 
2012 Reserve Fee......$212.00 
2012 Property Tax Fee..$83.46 
Total.................$958.84

2011 MF: $934.30. 2.62% increase.


----------



## SueDonJ (Nov 18, 2011)

If anyone's waiting, the invoices for both Barony Beach and SurfWatch should now be available using the "View Maintenance Fee Package(s)" link in your my-vacationclub.com accounts.  Barony's due date is 1/11/12; SW's is 1/20/12.  (The invoiced amounts match what was reported in this post.)


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## Lardan (Nov 18, 2011)

Cypress Harbour  was posted, it also the amount stated in this thread.  Ocean Pointe hasn't listed their MF yet


----------



## timtax (Nov 22, 2011)

*OceanWatch*

Property 	Amount Paid
Ocean Watch Villas OW**26 2012 Property Tax Fee 	$  66.97
Ocean Watch Villas OW**26 2012 Operating Fee 	$721.00
Ocean Watch Villas OW**26 2012 Reserve Fee 	        $212.00
Total                                                                  $999.97

3.73% increase


----------



## dioxide45 (Nov 22, 2011)

Lardan said:


> Cypress Harbour  was posted, it also the amount stated in this thread.  Ocean Pointe hasn't listed their MF yet



Grande Vista hasn't billed yet either. What I find strange is that Grande Vista always bills after our Harbour Lake, but Grande Vista is also always due before Harbour Lake.


----------



## MOXJO7282 (Nov 22, 2011)

timtax said:


> Property 	Amount Paid
> Ocean Watch Villas OW**26 2012 Property Tax Fee 	$  66.97
> Ocean Watch Villas OW**26 2012 Operating Fee 	$721.00
> Ocean Watch Villas OW**26 2012 Reserve Fee 	        $212.00
> ...



Very happy with this minor increase for such a fabulous resort.


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## potchak (Nov 22, 2011)

MOXJO7282 said:


> Very happy with this minor increase for such a fabulous resort.



Agreed! we love Oceanwatch! Just bought there and can't wait to use it!


----------



## timtax (Nov 23, 2011)

*Canyon Villas*

Property 	Amount Paid
Canyon Villas at Desert Ridge CV**15 2012 Reserve Fee 	$255.02
Canyon Villas at Desert Ridge CV**15 2012 Property Tax Fee 	$39.38
Canyon Villas at Desert Ridge CV**15 2012 Operating Fee 	$705.00
Total     $999.40

4.89% increase


----------



## Retired TSO (Nov 23, 2011)

MOXJO7282 said:


> Same here. We get 80k + points per year paying our MFs using the Marriott Visa so that is a huge perk for us.



Wow, 80k points for paying MFs! Either you own loads of units or I am doing something wrong. Our MFs are approx. $3,500.00 in total and collect 10k in rewards points. Would love to find a way to maximize getting points..


----------



## minoter (Nov 23, 2011)

*BeachPlace 2011 Fees*

Operating Fee $716.82
Reserve Fee $288.00
Tax Fee-Platinum $46.25
Tax Fee-Gold $33.09
Total Platinum $1,051.07--5.4% Increase
Total Gold $1,037.91--6.2% Increase
The fee increase is after application of a fund surplus of previous year maintenance fees in the tax account and the operating account.


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## dioxide45 (Nov 23, 2011)

Retired TSO said:


> Wow, 80k points for paying MFs! Either you own loads of units or I am doing something wrong. Our MFs are approx. $3,500.00 in total and collect 10k in rewards points. Would love to find a way to maximize getting points..



Given the number of units that Joe has listed, 80K in pionts sounds reasonable. At 5 points per dollar, that works out to $16,000 in MFs put on the Marriott credit card.


----------



## Michigan Czar (Nov 23, 2011)

Retired TSO said:


> Wow, 80k points for paying MFs! Either you own loads of units or I am doing something wrong. Our MFs are approx. $3,500.00 in total and collect 10k in rewards points. Would love to find a way to maximize getting points..



Do you have the Marriott Visa black card and are all of your MFs for MVC properties? If they are all MVC properties then you should make sure to get the Marriott black Visa card so you can get 5 points per dollar spent at Marriott. That would net you 17,500 points annually.


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## MOXJO7282 (Nov 24, 2011)

dioxide45 said:


> Given the number of units that Joe has listed, 80K in pionts sounds reasonable. At 5 points per dollar, that works out to $16,000 in MFs put on the Marriott credit card.



$16,193.87 to be exact. Multiplied by 5 = 80,969 rewards points this year.


----------



## Retired TSO (Nov 24, 2011)

Michigan Czar said:


> Do you have the Marriott Visa black card and are all of your MFs for MVC properties? If they are all MVC properties then you should make sure to get the Marriott black Visa card so you can get 5 points per dollar spent at Marriott. That would net you 17,500 points annually.



I have the regular Marriott Visa card, did not even know about a 'black' visa card. Will look into it to see if it is available in Canada. I get 3 points per dollar spent at Marriott. Yes, all of our MFs are for MVCI. thanks.


----------



## dioxide45 (Nov 24, 2011)

Retired TSO said:


> I have the regular Marriott Visa card, did not even know about a 'black' visa card. Will look into it to see if it is available in Canada. I get 3 points per dollar spent at Marriott. Yes, all of our MFs are for MVCI. thanks.



Canada only has the one card, there are three cards in the USA, the Signature (silver), Premier (black) and Business.


----------



## markbernstein (Nov 29, 2011)

*Oceana Palms 2BF OV Gold*

2012 Operating Fee: $1,149.39
2012 Reserve Fee: $250.72
2012 Property Tax: $114.97
Total: $1,515.08

I think last year's total fee was somewhere around $1,450.


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## pwrshift (Nov 30, 2011)

dioxide45 said:


> Canada only has the one card, there are three cards in the USA, the Signature (silver), Premier (black) and Business.


 
Compared to what Marriott owners in the US get, it's a crappy card for Canadians...there are much better cards out there but not for Marriott Reward Points.  When I see what benefits US members get with their top layer card it makes me envious...an incredible difference.


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## dioxide45 (Nov 30, 2011)

*Grande Vista Gold 2BR*

2012 Operating Fee.....$598.68 
2012 Club Fee..........$ 34.45 
2012 Reserve Fee.......$206.61 
2012 Property Tax Fee..$108.56 
Total Charges..........$948.30 

2011 MF: $925.94. 2.41% increase


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## lll1929 (Dec 1, 2011)

Grand Vista Platinum

2012 Club Fee  - 34.45 
2012 Reserve Fee  -  206.61 
2012 Property Tax Fee  -  138.89 
2012 Operating Fee  -  598.68 

Total - 978.63

2011 = 956.77


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## OutAndAbout (Dec 4, 2011)

Still a work in progress 

(Taxes are a straight average of the seasons)


```
Resort				Unit	Op Fee'12	Res'12	Tax'12	Otr'12	Tot'12		Op Fee'11	Res'11	Tax'11	Otr'11	Tot'11
Aruba_OceanClub			1br	  796.14	273.78			1,069.92	  788.44	261.13			1,049.57
Aruba_OceanClub			2br	1,055.80	370.39			1,426.19 	1,049.94	352.23			1,402.17
Aruba_SurfClub			1br	1,108.76	265.10			1,373.86 	1,036.22	153.24			1,189.46
Aruba_SurfClub			2br	1,486.95	376.38			1,863.33	1,384.83	217.55			1,602.38
AZ_Phoenix_DesertRidge		2br	  705.00	255.02	 39.38		  999.40	  669.86	242.88	  40.05		  952.79
CA_LakeTahoe_TimberLodge	1br	  626.90	186.37			  813.27	  615.27	177.01			  792.28
CA_LakeTahoe_TimberLodge	2br	  768.66	278.38			1,047.04	  749.86	264.39			1,014.25
CA_LakeTahoe_TimberLodge	3br	  934.05	385.72			1,319.77	  906.86	366.34			1,273.20
CA_Newport_NewportCoast		2br	  704.48	197.34			  901.82	  714.54	163.20			  877.74
CA_PalmDesert_DesertVillasI	2br	  755.49	470.29			1,225.78	  617.45	447.90			1,065.35
CA_PalmDesert_DesertVillasII	2br	  667.54	348.94			1,016.48	  646.50	304.22			  950.72
CA_PalmDesert_ShadowRidge	lockoffs  279.30	65.64			  344.94	  268.39	56.47			  324.86
CA_PalmDesert_ShadowRidge	1br	  540.84	131.29			  672.13	  519.21	112.93			  632.14
CA_PalmDesert_ShadowRidge	2br	  820.14	196.93			1,017.07	  787.60	169.40			  957.00
CA_PalmDesert_ShadowRidge	2br-new	  818.86	196.93			1,015.79	  786.32	169.40			  955.72
CA_PalmDesert_ShadowRidge	2br-dlx	  831.74	196.93			1,028.67   	  799.05	169.40			  968.45
CO_Breckenridge_MountainValley	Studio										
CO_Breckenridge_MountainValley	1br										
CO-Vail_StreamSide										
FL_FortLauderdale_BeachPlace	2br	  716.82	288.00	 39.67	  34.45	1,044.49	  674.67	254.00	  58.68	  33.56	  987.35
FL_MarcoIsland_CrystalShores	2br	1,308.17	252.96	 49.87	-158.95	1,611.00	1,255.45	229.97	  74.17	-206.46	1,559.59
FL_MarcoIsland_CrystalShores	3br	1,911.98	369.74	 63.69	-232.33	2,345.41	1,834.96	336.13	 112.06	-301.76	2,283.15
FL_Miami_Doral			2br	  850.75	195.00	 90.58	  34.45	1,136.33	  850.75	195.00	  90.58	  33.56	1,136.33
FL_Orlando_CypressHarbour	2br	  634.29	285.00	 87.44		1,006.73	  608.04	272.00	  76.03		  956.07
FL_Orlando_GrandeVista		1br	  408.32	140.93	 76.65		  625.90	  416.59	135.71	  99.26	  33.56	  651.56
FL_Orlando_GrandeVista		2br	  598.68	206.61	123.73		  929.02	  610.75	198.96	 125.78	  33.56	  935.49
FL_Orlando_GrandeVista		3br	  789.91	272.61	136.16		1,198.68	  805.82	262.52	 156.83	  33.56	1,225.17
FL_Orlando_HarborLake		2br	  663.38	212.00	 98.95		  974.33	  647.38	197.00	 114.94		  959.32
FL_Orlando_ImperialPalm		3br	  789.47	342.11	109.41		1,240.99	  765.72	327.38	 107.42		1,200.52
FL_Orlando_LakeshoreReserve	2br-T						1,214.91	  208.35	120.20		-432.20	1,543.46
FL_Orlando_LakeshoreReserve	2br-D						1,285.46	  220.45	127.18		-457.30	1,633.09
FL_Orlando_LakeshoreReserve	3br				 		1,653.95	  283.64	163.63		-588.38	2,101.22
FL_Orlando_RoyalPalms		2br	  660.62	319.30	 82.44		1,062.36	  630.51	310.00	 104.71		1,045.22
FL_Orlando_SabalPalms		2br	  647.24	325.00	 85.04		1,057.28	  614.27	320.00	 109.31		1,043.58
FL_PalmBeach_OceanaPalms	2br	1,196.44	250.72	116.32		1,563.48	1,005.13	210.00	 300.48		1,515.61
FL_PalmBeach_OceanPointe	2br	  795.56	260.67	232.47		1,288.70	  794.43	248.27	 232.47	  33.56	1,275.17
FL_PalmBeach_OceanPointe	3br	  957.41	313.71	329.93		1,601.05	  955.74	298.68	 329.93	  33.56	1,584.35
FL_PanamaCity_LegendsEdge	2br	  796.13	226.73	 88.08		1,110.94	  815.61	206.00	  89.34	  33.56	1,110.95
```

PS:  If anyone has a suggestion on a better way to post this, I'm all ears!!


----------



## glenns (Dec 6, 2011)

*Lakeshore Reserve*



glenns said:


> 2011 Two Bedroom Platinum
> 
> 
> 2011 Reserve..............   $208.35
> ...



2012 Two Bedroom Platinum


2012 Reserve..............   $221.88
2012 Developer Subsidy...  ($368.91)
2012 Operating Fee.......  $1250.21
2012 Property Tax.........   $102.08
===========================
2012 Total...............  $1205.26


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## Pens_Fan (Dec 6, 2011)

OutAndAbout said:


> Still a work in progress
> 
> (Taxes are a straight average of the seasons)
> 
> ...



I think your Aruba Surf Club numbers should be for 2 & 3 bedroom, not 1 & 2.


----------



## OutAndAbout (Dec 6, 2011)

Pens_Fan said:


> I think your Aruba Surf Club numbers should be for 2 & 3 bedroom, not 1 & 2.



You are correct.  For some reason it's not letting me edit my post..


----------



## dioxide45 (Dec 6, 2011)

OutAndAbout said:


> You are correct.  For some reason it's not letting me edit my post..



You are too late to edit it. I think you can only edit a post for the first 48 hours. We won't bring up the reason why.


----------



## TheTimeTraveler (Dec 7, 2011)

dioxide45 said:


> You are too late to edit it. I think you can only edit a post for the first 48 hours. We won't bring up the reason why.






Isn't it called the "Perry Solution" ?:rofl: 





.


----------



## Pens_Fan (Dec 7, 2011)

I think it rips a hole in the space/time continuum if you are allowed to go into the past and alter it to suit your needs.


----------



## SueDonJ (Dec 8, 2011)

Pens_Fan said:


> I think it rips a hole in the space/time continuum if you are allowed to go into the past and alter it to suit your needs.



Perry has no idea how much damage he inflicted on us OCD spelling and grammar freaks.


----------



## ironweed (Dec 9, 2011)

*Non-Payment of MF ??*

Can anyone tell me exactly what happens if you do not pay your annual MF ??


----------



## dioxide45 (Dec 9, 2011)

ironweed said:


> Can anyone tell me exactly what happens if you do not pay your annual MF ??



First there will be a late charge added, and then daily interest at the tune of 18% a year. I am sure there will be some collection calls from Marriott. Marriott will then file a lien at some point, I have noticed from recording records that this happens around May or June. Further non payment will lead to foreclosure actions being taken.


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## lll1929 (Dec 9, 2011)

My sister hasn't paid her MF for 2011 and there was a lein charge $175 added to her acct in apr 2011.  There was also a $25 late fee added in jan 2011.  

There are also interest fees added monthly totaling $16.51 a month. 

At this point, they haven't foreclosed her week.  

She has a loan and pays it montly ontime so Marriott Finance will not foreclose since the loan is current.

She can't use the weeks and once the loan s paid off, she will automaticaly go into foreclose if the maint fee's aren't current.


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## Superchief (Dec 10, 2011)

markbernstein said:


> 2012 Operating Fee: $1,149.39
> 2012 Reserve Fee: $250.72
> 2012 Property Tax: $114.97
> Total: $1,515.08
> ...


Oceana Palms
The operating fee plus reserve increased by 15.2% this year, after a 22% increase last year. Overall fees increased by 4.4% due to a significant reduction in property tax (which I believe were overcharged for the 2 previous years.

I am becoming greatly concerned that the majority trust ownership at this resort will result in weeks owners absorbing more than their fair share of operating and reserve expenses. Weeks owners will never have an equal representation on the board to keep expenses in check.


----------



## dioxide45 (Dec 10, 2011)

lll1929 said:


> My sister hasn't paid her MF for 2011 and there was a lein charge $175 added to her acct in apr 2011.  There was also a $25 late fee added in jan 2011.
> 
> There are also interest fees added monthly totaling $16.51 a month.
> 
> ...



Of course Marriott doesn't want to foreclose now. They placed a lien on the property for the HOA fees. That lien become first lien ahead of their mortgage. If they foreclose, those MFs will be paid. Given recent resale prices it is very likely that they would be out most if not all of their money on that mortgage. So this is a situation where Marriott is taking (or not taking) action that is detrimental to the owners but in Marriott's best interest.

The owners have to carry the burden of those unpaid fees as long as Marriott keeps getting their loan payments. This is a situation where the HOA should be pushing Marriott to start foreclosure action on the HOA fees or taking that action on their own if they can.


----------



## OutAndAbout (Dec 11, 2011)

dioxide45 said:


> lll1929 said:
> 
> 
> > My sister hasn't paid her MF for 2011 and there was a lein charge $175 added to her acct in apr 2011.  There was also a $25 late fee added in jan 2011.
> ...


dioxide45 points out Marriott's M.O., but I have to wonder the M.O. of the owner that doesn't pay the maint fees.  Why pay your loan and ignore the maint fees?  Since you don't pay your maint fees you can't use the week and once you pay off the loan the week will be foreclosed on, so why not just stop paying it all now?   

I understand they won't have a loan default on the credit report, but won't the unpaid maint fees negatively impact their credit report?  Even if that's the case it seems like a lot to pay to keep the credit report less-soiled.


----------



## lll1929 (Dec 11, 2011)

OutAndAbout said:


> I understand they won't have a loan default on the credit report, but won't the unpaid maint fees negatively impact their credit report?  Even if that's the case it seems like a lot to pay to keep the credit report less-soiled.



I totally agree that they should stop paying their loan instead of wasting sooo much money a year.  Unfortunately, they are trying to re-locate to a new state and purchase a home.  I hope they will do something about their timeshare after they relocate.

At this point, the unpaid MFs has not been reported on their credit


----------



## dioxide45 (Dec 11, 2011)

OutAndAbout said:


> dioxide45 points out Marriott's M.O., but I have to wonder the M.O. of the owner that doesn't pay the maint fees.  Why pay your loan and ignore the maint fees?  Since you don't pay your maint fees you can't use the week and once you pay off the loan the week will be foreclosed on, so why not just stop paying it all now?
> 
> I understand they won't have a loan default on the credit report, but won't the unpaid maint fees negatively impact their credit report?  Even if that's the case it seems like a lot to pay to keep the credit report less-soiled.



I don't think that the delinquent MFs hit a credit report unless they sell the debt to a collector. The foreclosure would hit the report when complete. It seems that to this point almost a year later, delinquent MFs haven't hit their credit report. There would be no doubt that the loan payment would hit as soon as it is 30 days late.


----------



## stive1 (Dec 16, 2011)

*Branson*

Sorry if I missed it....does anyone know the 2012 fee's for Branson?


----------



## SueDonJ (Dec 16, 2011)

stive1 said:


> Sorry if I missed it....does anyone know the 2012 fee's for Branson?



Here's the budget report from *Willow Ridge*.  (You may have to sign in to your my-vacationclub.com account to access it.)

*2012*
Operating and Reserves Fee - $854.65
Property Tax - $23.35
$878.00 TOTAL

(Plus $34.50 International Owners Surcharge)

2011 Total - $815.00


----------



## MALC9990 (Dec 18, 2011)

*Son Antem*

MFs for 2012

2Br - €813.62

3Br - €930.30

3% increase over 2011


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## PamMo (Dec 18, 2011)

*Marbella 2012 MF's*

Marbella Beach Resort MF's for 2012

1BR - EUR 718.42
2BR - EUR 838.08
3BR - EUR 957.80


----------



## MALC9990 (Dec 19, 2011)

*Playa Andaluz 2012 MFs*

2 Br.-  €893.67

3 Br. - €1005.59

2.36% increase


----------



## MALC9990 (Dec 19, 2011)

*Phuket Beach Club 2012 MFs*

2 Br. - Baht 28,965.55

2.84% increase

MFs are in Thai Baht.


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## davewasbaloo (Dec 19, 2011)

*Ile de France*

I was quite relieved, though after seeing MALC's posts, wished we bought in Spain now  

2 bedroom unit in Ile De France

Operating fee: Euro 995.05 $1296
Replacement fee Euro 108.13 (included in Operating fee) $140.84
Property taxes Euro 53.95 $70.26
Total fee Euro 1034.86 $1347.14

There is no longer an MVCI subsidy.

this all accounts for a 3.44% rise, which I did not think was too bad considering inflation has been at 5.6% in the UK.

Still a bargain compared to Disneyland Paris Hotel prices and it is the best accommodation in the region IMHO.


----------



## MALC9990 (Dec 19, 2011)

davewasbaloo said:


> I was quite relieved, though after seeing MALC's posts, wished we bought in Spain now
> 
> 2 bedroom unit in Ile De France
> 
> ...



It does seem that Paris is more expensive than the Spanish resorts but I would guess that can be accounted for by the fact that it is France and near Paris so costs such as salaries and wages are probably a lot higher. Also the Son Antem total costs are spread across 11536 unit weeks.

If I break my Son Antem costs down as you have done for Paris then they are as follows:

Operating Fee:       Euro 657.28
Replacement fee:   Euro 97.71 (this appears as Reserve for Replacement).
Property Taxes:     Euro 11.60
Total Fee              Euro 766.59
Other revenue       Euro (13.24) - Income to offset MFs
Total Net MFs        Euro 753.35
IVA 8%                 Euro 60.27 - Value Added Tax

Total to Pay          Euro 813.62

So the big difference is in the Operating fee which can probably be accounted for by the fact that staff costs will be much higher in France than is Spain.

Since the single biggest line item in the Son Antem 2012 Budget is for Housekeeping it would suggest that in Paris this line item is even more of a significant cost driver. 

One line item in the Son Antem Budget is very interesting - Provision for Bad Debt - ZERO.


----------



## davewasbaloo (Dec 20, 2011)

That is a very good point Malcolm, being so close to Paris probably is a big driver of cost indeed. Also, I think there is more bureaucracy and therefore cost in France than Spain too. I suppose we make up the difference in that driving to Ile De France and using Tesco points for the channel tunnel is cheaper than 4 flights to Majorca. lol

Paris alos has 0 next to bad debt provision as well. Interesting stuff.


----------



## MALC9990 (Dec 20, 2011)

davewasbaloo said:


> That is a very good point Malcolm, being so close to Paris probably is a big driver of cost indeed. Also, I think there is more bureaucracy and therefore cost in France than Spain too. I suppose we make up the difference in that driving to Ile De France and using Tesco points for the channel tunnel is cheaper than 4 flights to Majorca. lol
> 
> Paris alos has 0 next to bad debt provision as well. Interesting stuff.



I think the reason for zero provision for bad debt may be that all 4 resorts in Europe are RTU rather than deeded property. So those owners that fail to pay their MFs are treated differently than owners in deeded property based resorts which are the norm in the USA. Basically if you or I failed to pay our MFs on our weeks at Marriott resorts in Europe, after two years of non-payment, the weeks are revoked and become the property of Marriott once more. Marriott then pay the MFs and can resell the week(s). 

This means that the impact on the resort finances is temporary since they know that either the owner pays up or loses the week and then Marriott pays up and resells the week again.


----------



## TravlinDuo (Jan 3, 2012)

*Lakeshore Reserve 2012 Maintenance Fees*

After reviewing the pages of this thread, I did not see anyone post 2012 Maint Fees for a 3BR Premier Plat week.

Base:  $1214.28
Reserve:  $305.72
Taxes:  $190.40

Total paid in 2011:  $1572.09


----------

