# 70 new resorts



## Clark (Apr 25, 2015)

I forgot to mention in my earlier post another thing we "learned" in the sales presentation at Surfwatch

Our sales lady mentioned the 70 new resorts that were in the pipeline.

I asked which of the 70 were resorts in the sense of Surfwatch or Barony, that is, Marriott-built and catering to Marriott owners (as opposed to some location that is not Marriott-specific where DP members would be able to reserve).

The answer, as best I could tell, was "None".


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## dioxide45 (Apr 25, 2015)

Clark said:


> I forgot to mention in my earlier post another thing we "learned" in the sales presentation at Surfwatch
> 
> Our sales lady mentioned the 70 new resorts that were in the pipeline.
> 
> ...



We know of only three that were mentioned in the last earnings call. 70 sounds pretty lofty. I doubt they would try to more than double their resorts that quickly. If they do, they didn't learn anything from 2008. Perhaps adding more explorer package options it what we would see if they expect to offer access to 70 new properties.


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## nakyak (Apr 25, 2015)

Clark said:


> I forgot to mention in my earlier post another thing we "learned" in the sales presentation at Surfwatch
> 
> Our sales lady mentioned the 70 new resorts that were in the pipeline.
> 
> ...



They are really doing a good job of pitching heat during their sales presentations these days.


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## pedro47 (Apr 25, 2015)

Clark said:


> I forgot to mention in my earlier post another thing we "learned" in the sales presentation at Surfwatch
> 
> Our sales lady mentioned the 70 new resorts that were in the pipeline.
> 
> ...



No way Marriott's will build 70 new resorts unless that is a long range plan over 30 years in my opinion.


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## MAJPLO (Apr 25, 2015)

What are the upcoming three that are actually built by Marriott?


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## rthib (Apr 25, 2015)

dioxide45 said:


> We know of only three that were mentioned in the last earnings call. 70 sounds pretty lofty. I doubt they would try to more than double their resorts that quickly. If they do, they didn't learn anything from 2008. Perhaps adding more explorer package options it what we would see if they expect to offer access to 70 new properties.



Marriott Sales has starting blending in the "explorer" collection in referring to properties. So every time a Marriott brand hotel opens it is a new MVCI property.


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## Werner Weiss (Apr 25, 2015)

MAJPLO said:


> What are the upcoming three that are actually built by Marriott?


The locations announced during the Marriott Vacations Worldwide (VAC) 02/26/15 earnings call were:

*San Diego.* The all-suite downtown hotel that is currently Declan Suites (formerly Sheraton Suites; originally Marriott Suites) will become a Marriott Vacation Club.

*South Beach (Miami).* Stephen Weisz announced, "In Miami, we have a commitment to purchase 182-unit property under construction in South Beach, scheduled to be completed in August of this year." The actual property name and address have not been announced.

* Big Island, Hawaii.* Fewer than half the rooms at the Waikoloa Beach Marriott Resort & Spa will be converted into Marriott Vacation Club villas.

None of these three locations were designed from scratch as Marriott Vacation Club resorts. However, they will be be actual Trust properties, not merely Explorer Collection options.


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## TahoeLover (May 4, 2015)

I was told last week during my owner's presentation that in addition to San Diego, South Beach, Big Island and Australia already mentioned, that several floors of the Marriott Marquis in Times Square will be converted to MVC. Apparently it has fallen out of escrow a few times so it has been delayed.


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## NJDave (May 4, 2015)

I found this article with a few more details.

http://insidethegate.com/gatehouse/2015/02/idle-timeshare-thoughts-february-28-2015/


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## DB-Wis (May 5, 2015)

NJDave said:


> I found this article with a few more details.
> 
> http://insidethegate.com/gatehouse/2015/02/idle-timeshare-thoughts-february-28-2015/



Very interesting article.  If these plans actually come to fruition, it will be a good and positive sign for the Marriott timeshare brand, but it will probably be of little consequence to those of us who own just enrolled weeks.  I suspect it will be difficult for folks like us to get into those "pure points properties.


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## Werner Weiss (May 5, 2015)

DB-Wis said:


> I suspect it will be difficult for folks like us to get into those "pure points properties.


I honestly don't think it will be difficult for enrolled owners to use points to stay at  "pure points properties" — regardless of what some Marriott Vacation Club salespeople have claimed.

The Destination Club brings together Trust points and points from enrolled weeks in an exchange pool. The entire portfolio of Marriott Vacation Club properties is available to both categories of owners through what seems to be healthy and well-managed exchange program.

People who buy Trust points want to stay not only at properties that are primarily held by the Trust, but also at older properties that are primarily owned as weeks. And enrolled owners will opt for points if they can use those points across the whole portfolio, including the newest Trust-owned properties. 

I'm looking forward to the new properties. And I'm only an enrolled owner.


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## SueDonJ (May 5, 2015)

Werner Weiss said:


> I honestly don't think it will be difficult for enrolled owners to use points to stay at  "pure points properties" — regardless of what some Marriott Vacation Club salespeople have claimed.
> 
> The Destination Club brings together Trust points and points from enrolled weeks in an exchange pool. The entire portfolio of Marriott Vacation Club properties is available to both categories of owners through what seems to be healthy and well-managed exchange program.
> 
> ...



I agree, especially as to how they're managing inventory in the DC Exchange Company for the benefit of both Trust and Exchange (Enrolled) Members.

I anticipate that they'll be far more likely as time goes on to take advantage of the "Luxury" designation for new properties, as opposed to restricting them to only Trust Members.  By doing that they'd be keeping to the "all access, based on availability" tenet, but also supporting sales because the higher tiers have longer Reservation Windows for Luxury properties.


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## dioxide45 (May 5, 2015)

I think it will actually be easier for enrolled owners to use their points at pure trust properties. Mainly for the fact that a lot of enrolled owners have a lot of DC points. New resorts will cost a lot of points and the average DC point sale is probably only about 2,500 DC points. So it would take a trust owner having to bank and or borrow to get some of these new properties. Something they may not be willing to do.

Kauai Lagoons is about as pure a trust points property that there is and it is actually pretty easy to book with legacy points.


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## NJDave (May 5, 2015)

SueDonJ said:


> I agree, especially as to how they're managing inventory in the DC Exchange Company for the benefit of both Trust and Exchange (Enrolled) Members.
> 
> I anticipate that they'll be far more likely as time goes on to take advantage of the "Luxury" designation for new properties, as opposed to restricting them to only Trust Members.  By doing that they'd be keeping to the "all access, based on availability" tenet, but also supporting sales because the higher tiers have longer Reservation Windows for Luxury properties.



My guess is that the Miami South Beach location is a number of the units of the Ritz Carlton Residence property being built.

http://www.bizjournals.com/southflorida/stories/2005/05/02/tidbits1.html


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## dioxide45 (May 5, 2015)

NJDave said:


> My guess is that the Miami South Beach location is a number of the units of the Ritz Carlton Residence property being built.
> 
> http://www.bizjournals.com/southflorida/stories/2005/05/02/tidbits1.html



This article is 10 years old (2005), does it still apply?


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## NJDave (May 5, 2015)

dioxide45 said:


> This article is 10 years old (2005), does it still apply?



Nope.  Thought I saw 2015.

I would still guess that it is going to be a Ritz based on the location.  I noticed that there are Ritz Residences being built in Miami Beach but the location doesn't appear to match.


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## Werner Weiss (May 5, 2015)

The South Beach property is a "182-unit property under construction in South Beach, scheduled to be completed in August of this year" (2015). Marriott Vacations Worldwide is "targeting to open a new sales gallery in this market during the first half of next year" (2016).

Meanwhile, a developer is transforming a former hospital, the Miami Heart Institute, into Ritz Carlton Residences Miami Beach, with 111 units and 15 stand-alone villas priced from $2 million "upwards to $40 million." The Ritz Carlton Residences are apparently not fractional or timeshare units and do not seem to involve Marriott Vacations Worldwide in any way. For more details, see http://miami.curbed.com/places/former-miami-heart-institute

Aside from both licensing brand names from Marriott International, I doubt the two projects have anything in common.

There are a number of different Marriott-sffiliated hotels in Miami Beach — Courtyard Cadillac Miami Beach/Oceanfront; AC Hotel Miami Beach; The Miami Beach EDITION; The Ritz-Carlton, South Beach; Winter Haven, Autograph Collection; Blue Moon Hotel, Autograph Collection; and Marriott Stanton South Beach — but there's no reason to believe the new Marriott Vacation Club involves any of these.

Apparently there's a 182-unit property quietly taking shape somewhere in South Beach. I guess we'll know soon enough where it is, what was previously there, and to what extent it involves renovation/restoration or new construction.

If it's really going to completed 5 or 6 months from now, I'm surprised it's not already being marketed for nightly reservations, even before it's available with points.


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## DB-Wis (May 6, 2015)

Werner Weiss said:


> I honestly don't think it will be difficult for enrolled owners to use points to stay at  "pure points properties" — regardless of what some Marriott Vacation Club salespeople have claimed.
> 
> The Destination Club brings together Trust points and points from enrolled weeks in an exchange pool. The entire portfolio of Marriott Vacation Club properties is available to both categories of owners through what seems to be healthy and well-managed exchange program.
> 
> ...




I hope you're right.  I'm basing my comment on a property like Crystal Shores (Marco Island), where (I understand) few weeks were sold before the switchover to the points systems.  Based on comments posted here, and my own experience, it seems virtually impossible to trade into that property.  I attribute that to the fact that there are relatively few weeks to be deposited in Interval.  I realize there are other factors at play, too (e.g., being able to easily rent the week at a premium price), but that is true for other properties too where trading into is still feasible.


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## Werner Weiss (May 6, 2015)

DB-Wis said:


> I attribute that to the fact that there are relatively few weeks to be deposited in Interval.


Deposits of traditional weeks into Interval International (II) and transfer of Trust inventory into the Destination Club (DC) exchange pool are two different things. I was referring to the latter.

As enrolled owner, I think it will easier to get vacations at "pure points properties" through DC than II.

However, MVCI can package Trust inventory into 7-night periods and deposit them with II to obtain weeks out of II when that's advantageous. So it won't be impossible for "pure points properties" to be obtained through II.


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## GregT (May 6, 2015)

Werner Weiss said:


> So it won't be impossible for "pure points properties" to be obtained through II.



Kauai Lagoons is substantially all a points property (I believe weeks were only sold for a couple of months pre June-2010), and you occasionally see weeks pop up at KL just before check-in.  I remember when we were at WKORV in April 2014 and two different KL units popped up in II that were available for check-in on the following Saturday (I remember this because I tried to talk Jonell into extending the trip).  Both a 2BR and a 3BR -- so, if that isolated instance is what would happen, then I would think Trust Point properties will be deposited into II very very close to check-in.

This may be the pattern with any redeemed Exchange Company/Trust Point week that is unreserved.  Perhaps Marriot leaves it in the Exchange until X days before check-in (less than 7 days) and then deposits it into II before it goes empty.

Best,

Greg


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## Werner Weiss (May 6, 2015)

Changing the subject back to South Beach...

Could this be the "182-unit property under construction in South Beach" that Stephen Weisz announced during the Marriott Vacations Worldwide (VAC) earnings call on 02/26/2015?

http://www.witkoff.com/portfolio?property_id=50

The developer's web page describes one of their current redevelopment projects as a "181-key 4-star boutique hotel in the South Beach neighborhood of Miami Beach, Florida." That's the right location, the right timing, and essentially the right room count. It also matches Weisz's reference to "Art Deco historic buildings in South Beach." 

The current website for the Washington Park Hotel (http://www.washingtonparkhotel.com) appears to be stalled, as if plans have changed. It still says "Opening Early 2015" and there are no details about rooms or an opening date or a way to make reservations. That makes it seems that it won't ever open at the originally-envisioned Washington Park Hotel, but under different management — possibly Marriott Vacation Club.


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## SeaDoc (May 8, 2015)

*Not true... Let me explain...*

When you convert your weeks into destination points (which I always do, two years out on January 1st every year... Those points become immediately available to anyone who is accessing the trust properties, whether they be purchased trust or our converted 'week points'.  A POINT IS A POINT... I know that many sales people, in the past, 'bucketed' us saying that points are different.  THEY ARE NOT... You can participate in these new properties, but you'll need to convert your weeks into points, so that you'll have these points available to make the reservation.  If you did not convert, the system sees that you have no points and you will see NO reservation options... A bit of a 'leap of faith', but I have tremendous availability when I turn my weeks into club points every year... All the best, SeaDoc:whoopie:




DB-Wis said:


> Very interesting article.  If these plans actually come to fruition, it will be a good and positive sign for the Marriott timeshare brand, but it will probably be of little consequence to those of us who own just enrolled weeks.  I suspect it will be difficult for folks like us to get into those "pure points properties.


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## puckmanfl (May 8, 2015)

good morning

DB-Wis...

With enrolled points, you will always have access to "point properties"  Follow the logic.  Since 6/2010 MVCD  has been selling "Trust Points".  The average sale is about 2000 points.  There are very few pure Trust owners with over 5000 (rememebr that is a $50K hit).  These new "Trust" properties and many of the primo old ones cost wel over 4000 for a good week.  The Legacy enrollees are for the most part, the only owners that can afford the "good stuff"..

no worries at all!!!

just ane xample  Ritz carlton Sanfrancisco is WIDE open thru early Jne 2016...


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## larryallen (May 9, 2015)

70 rooms maybe!?


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## NYFLTRAVELER (May 13, 2015)

Will the San Diego property have a pool/outdoor area?


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## Fasttr (May 13, 2015)

NYFLTRAVELER said:


> Will the San Diego property have a pool/outdoor area?



Not likely.  Its more of a city location.  In its most recent life, it was a Declan Suites, and has a very small indoor pool only.  You can likely find more info if you Google Declan Suites San Diego and look at hotel amenities, or look at a satellite view of the hotel....likely not much space around it for an outdoor pool area.


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## Werner Weiss (May 13, 2015)

NYFLTRAVELER said:


> Will the San Diego property have a pool/outdoor area?



The San Diego Marriott Vacation Club property is currently called Declan Suites San Diego. It shares a downtown city block with the Joan and Irwin Jacobs Music Center (including the 2,231-seat Copley Symphony Hall), and the Symphony Towers office building (34-stories totaling 521,281 square feet). The hotel sits on top of a fortress-like parking structure with 650 spaces.

It remains to be seen how extensively Marriott Vacations Worldwide (VAC) transforms the hotel. Because it's part of an intensely developed city block, it cannot become a resort on spacious landscaped grounds with extensive outdoor areas.

Declan Suites currently has a relatively small heated indoor pool with skylights, and it seems very unlikely that a bigger pool is possible. You can find a photo of the pool and and other features of the hotel here: http://www.declansuitessandiego.com/photo-tour

Declan Suites boasts "over 6,000 square-feet of flexible San Diego Meeting Space with large pre-function space" on its 12th floor. Presumably, that space can be put to different use for Vacation Club guests. 

Perhaps there's an opportunity to add an outdoor deck on the roof between the two towers or to peel back part of that roof. Given San Diego's wonderful year-round climate, it would be a shame if that does not happen.

The rooms are all 425-sq.ft. 2-room suites. Currently, they're really just traditional hotel rooms with a wall dividing the bed area from the sofa area. There are no balconies. These "villas" will be smaller than purpose-built Marriott Vacation Club villas, but I hope that VAC will skillfully squeeze in a mini-kitchen and more "home away from home" features.

By the way, VAC's acquisition of the hotel is complete. According to Marriott Vacations Worldwide Reports First Quarter 2015 Financial Results (April 30, 2015):
The company completed its acquisition of an operating hotel located in San Diego, California, for approximately $55 million. The company plans to begin converting the hotel to vacation ownership inventory later this year.​


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## NYFLTRAVELER (May 13, 2015)

Werner Weiss said:


> The San Diego Marriott Vacation Club property is currently called Declan Suites San Diego. It shares a downtown city block with the Joan and Irwin Jacobs Music Center (including the 2,231-seat Copley Symphony Hall), and the Symphony Towers office building (34-stories totaling 521,281 square feet). The hotel sits on top of a fortress-like parking structure with 650 spaces.
> 
> It remains to be seen how extensively Marriott Vacations Worldwide (VAC) transforms the hotel. Because it's part of an intensely developed city block, it cannot become a resort on spacious landscaped grounds with extensive outdoor areas.
> 
> ...



It looks like a nice place but I believe they need to create outdoor space to make it more "resort like" as opposed to a downtown hotel.  

A search for December 2015 indicates that they are still offering rooms under the Delcan brand.  I found this blurb online (I did not know that MVC owned these properties, and not withstanding, I wonder if there will be usage privileges at these other properties they referenced).......



> Marriott Vacations Worldwide has paid $52.65M, or some $199,400/room, for the hotel from NYC private equity fund Westbrook Partners, according to Irvine-based Atlas Hospitality. Marriott's Ed Kinney says the company intends to operate The Declan as a hotel for the remainder of the year before converting the property to timeshare ownership. Ed says the fact that The Declan now operates as a suites hotel makes it ideally suited for conversion into ownership. "We're not making any major changes," he says. The 264-room hotel at 701 A St completed a huge reno after going independent from Starwood Hotels & Resorts' Sheraton brand in 2013.  Marriott Vacations Worldwide also operates the San Diego Marriott Marquis & Marina and the Coronado Island Marriott Resort & Spa as part of its vacation ownership plan.
> 
> Read more at: https://www.bisnow.com/san-diego/ne...-be-transformed-into-marriott-timeshare-45425


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## Werner Weiss (May 13, 2015)

NYFLTRAVELER said:


> It looks like a nice place but I believe they need to create outdoor space to make it more "resort like" as opposed to a downtown hotel.


I'm not sure the building can ever be truly "resort like," but I agree about creating open-air space.

In the 1970s and 1980s, developers and architects created fortress-like downtown structures in California, such as Plaza Pasadena and Broadway Plaza (Los Angeles). These complexes had blank walls at the street level and ignored the wonderful Southern California climate by eliminating any outdoor spaces.

It must have seemed like a good idea at the time — but not now.

Plaza Pasadena was converted into Paseo Colorado, an open-air shopping center. Broadway Plaza (renamed Macy's Plaza) is now in the process of being converted into The Bloc, an open-air center.

The  city block with Declan Suites and Symphony Towers is such a remnant of the 1980s. The public space of the hotel extends between the two towers. I don't expect major structural changes on the scale of Paseo Colorado or The Bloc, but peeling back part of the roof or developing the rooftop between the hotel tower and the office tower into open-air space would go a long way in taking the building from the 1980s to 21st century.



NYFLTRAVELER said:


> A search for December 2015 indicates that they are still offering rooms under the Delcan brand.  I found this blurb online (I did not know that MVC owned these properties, and not withstanding, I wonder if there will be usage privileges at these other properties they referenced).......



I think the reporter failed to understand the difference between Marriott Vacations Worldwide and Marriott International.

The San Diego Marriott Hotel & Marina and the Coronado Island Marriott Resort & Spa are both available using Destination Club points through the Explorer Collection, but that doesn't mean Marriott Vacations Worldwide (the timeshare company) operates those hotels.

I hope that the quote, "We're not making any major changes," refers to only major structural changes. I hope there will be major changes to the generic suites and the bland public spaces of the hotel. Currently, it's an anywhere-in-America business travelers' hotel. It needs to be a fun place to spend a vacation, with a theme that leaves no doubt that this is San Diego.

Marriott Vacations Worldwide could learn a lot from Disney Vacation Club about how to create memorable properties and how to use space efficiently.

I'm looking forward to staying at the San Diego Marriott Vacation Club. But I'll be very disappointed if it's just the Declan Suites with a new sign.


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## NYFLTRAVELER (May 13, 2015)

Werner Weiss said:


> I hope there will be major changes to the generic suites and the bland public spaces of the hotel. Currently, it's an anywhere-in-America business travelers' hotel.  It needs to be a fun place to spend a vacation, with a theme that leaves not doubt that this is San Diego.




Agreed.  That is why I am generally against the urban locations.  I was sold on the MVCI concept as a result of the resort-like properties with pools and other amenities.  To make this work they should have sufficient outdoor space preferably with an outdoor pool.


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## JIMinNC (May 14, 2015)

NYFLTRAVELER said:


> Agreed.  That is why I am generally against the urban locations.  I was sold on the MVCI concept as a result of the resort-like properties with pools and other amenities.  To make this work they should have sufficient outdoor space preferably with an outdoor pool.



I tend to agree on preferring resort-like properties, but I think that Marriott is simply responding to the wants/needs of younger people who are increasingly gravitating to urban destinations. With baby boomers starting to age out, they need to attract a younger demographic to vacation ownership, and younger people are starting families later and research shows that they often prefer higher density urban living and travel destinations - at least prior to having kids. Many continue to opt-in to the urban lifestyle even after starting their family.


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## JIMinNC (May 14, 2015)

JIMinNC said:


> I tend to agree on preferring resort-like properties, but I think that Marriott is simply responding to the wants/needs of younger people who are increasingly gravitating to urban destinations. With baby boomers starting to age out, they need to attract a younger demographic to vacation ownership, and younger people are starting families later and research shows that they often prefer higher density urban living and travel destinations - at least prior to having kids. Many continue to opt-in to the urban lifestyle even after starting their family.



I would also add, that I think the advent of the DC and the ability to book shorter stays may be driving the desire to add urban locations. I think these locations will be popular for less-than-seven-day points reservations, and that may also be a factor in Marriott's decision to drop the less-than-7-day booking at 13 months to the Executive Level from Premier Plus. That change and the addition of urban locations makes the shorter stay booking option more accessible for the potential customers Marriott is trying to attract and increases the likelihood that buyers will desire to own at least 7000 points. Anyone used to paying $400-$600/night and up for a nice hotel room in an urban setting may not find the price of DC Points to seem as steep when measured against that yardstick.


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## Werner Weiss (May 14, 2015)

I don't see a trend of Marriott Vacation Club shifting focus to urban locations.

Marriott's Custom House in Boston is an urban location, but it's been part of the portfolio for many years. I believe it opened around 1998.

San Diego will be another urban location, but South Beach and Hawaii (Big Island) will not be (unless you want to call South Beach urban because it's a densely-developed vacation area).

San Diego does not have large oceanfront development sites for new resorts with spacious grounds. And if such a site did exist, it would be so fiendishly expensive that it's unlikely the timeshare business model would work.

I think it all comes down to a business decision. For San Diego, Marriott Vacations Worldwide was able to buy a suitable building in a good location. Marriott Vacations Worldwide paid less than $200 thousand per suite for the property. The property already consists entirely of 1-bedroom suites, so the villas can use the existing footprints of the suites.  I'm sure it would have been far more expensive to build a new property from the ground up.

The downtown San Diego site is close to the zoo, the museums and other features of Balboa Park, the Gaslamp Quarter, Seaport Village, the USS Midway Museum, the Maritime Museum, Petco Park (San Diego Padres), Symphony Hall (on the same block), theaters, shopping, dining, harbor cruises, and the light-rail Trolley (which goes to Old Town among other places). There's freeway access to Sea World, La Jolla, and other spots up and down the coast and inland). It's a good, central location for a vacation.


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## JIMinNC (May 14, 2015)

Werner Weiss said:


> I don't see a trend of Marriott Vacation Club shifting focus to urban locations.



Not yet. But they recently sent out a online survey that asked a lot of questions about urban locations and asked a lot of questions about a number of different ownership concepts that would apply to urban locations. I think San Diego is the first one, but there may be more in the future.


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