# At Desert Springs Villas, Spa and hotel access no more, effective 1/1/10



## EducatedConsumer (Dec 31, 2009)

Front desk staff advised us that starting tomorrow DSVI owners will no longer have access to the spa or fitness center at the hotel or the hotel facilities like the pools. But, "you can still eat there."

I'm not sure what happened, as there's been no explanation from the HOA.

Until we learn why the agreement ended between DSVI and the hotel, we do not intend to spend one bloody penny at the hotel. 

We owners should start a write in campaign to the GM and Marriott.  

I hope DSV stops the shuttle service to the hotel, as that only encourages owners to spend money there.

Any one know if there is a spa at Club Intrawest or Desert Willow accross the street?


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## cp73 (Dec 31, 2009)

I'am speechless..That really is bad...


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## Superchief (Dec 31, 2009)

Marriott platinum members have free access to the fitness/spa facilities at the JW Marriott at Desert Ridge in Phoenix, even when staying at Canyon Villas. Does the JW in Desert Springs have a similar policy? This would help for some. If I owned at DSV1, I would be very upset. Marriott is only hurting themselves, and continue to alienate MVC owners.


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## chalucky (Dec 31, 2009)

*Big bummer explained*

The explanation is as follows from the Presidents letter found on the MVCI website:

_*Hotel License Agreement
Since DSV opened twenty years ago, DSV Owners have had access to various facilities at the JW Marriott Desert Springs Hotel, including access to the spa and the hotel pool. This access is contained in a license agreement with the hotel owner. For this access all Owners are charged a fee, included in the annual maintenance fees. Apart from these fees, DSV Owners and guests spend approximately $5 million annually in the hotel’s restaurants and other facilities.
This summer the Board received a notice from the hotel owner that it was cancelling the license agreement effective December 31, 2009. Without going into all of the details, after much prodding from the Board the hotel owner at first proposed a new license agreement, which among other things would have raised the license fee by 66%. The Board counter offered, based on Owner feedback received in a survey, but then the hotel owner changed course. The hotel owner indicated that they did not desire to have any license agreement with DSV. Instead, they stated that DSV Owners would be charged so-called “ala carte” fees based on each Owners’ actual use of the hotel facilities. For the past several weeks the Board has made every effort to engage in negotiations with the hotel owner, but they appear unwilling to negotiate in a serious way - for instance they have insisted that DSV indemnify the hotel if any Owner or guest is injured by their negligence, while both significantly increasing the license fee and limiting to six the total number of spa visits allowed per unit week.
As a result, come January 1, 2010 there is not a license agreement with the hotel. Instead “ala carte” pricing will be charged each time Owners and guests use the spa and other hotel facilities, such as the pools, tennis courts and exercise facility. Obviously each Owner will need to decide if this new pricing policy represents something of value. For their part, the hotel owner believes that they will earn much more money through their “ala carte” pricing than through a license agreement. As a place holder only and because at the time that the Board was required to set the maintenance fees we were in the midst of attempted negotiations, next year’s maintenance fee does include money that was set aside for the recreational license costs. However, since we could not reach an agreement, that portion of the maintenance fee will be reallocated at the end of the fiscal year.
I deeply regret that we have not been able to extend the license arrangement with the hotel owner. In the meantime, hotel management, which is different than the hotel owner, has indicated it remains committed to offering DSV Owners and guests the best services possible. Given the significant amount of money that DSV Owners and guests spend annually at the hotel, the Board certainly expects nothing less.*_


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## chalucky (Dec 31, 2009)

I have spent mucho $$$ at the JW Marriott when staying in the villas.
That will end.

As mentioned by the previous poster...I would advise MVCI cancel the shuttle service and the cost of the full time employees associated with the shuttle. No need to spend a penny at the JW Marriott.


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## chalucky (Dec 31, 2009)

*Sent to Joseph Lawence, President of the HOA*

Thank you for the update on DSV 1 where I am an owner.

I am disappointed you could not come to an agreement for the use of the JW Marriott facilities.
Based on your explanation, it sounds like the hotel owner was not acting in good faith and
furthermore, may be in for a rude disappointment as to the possible revenues “a la carte”
pricing will provide. I say that knowing how much we spent at the hotel while staying in our villas.

I would suggest an explanation of the real need for the full time employees and vehicles associated with 
the shuttle service might be in order. I feel no obligation to subsidize the use of the hotel restaurant’s
or other facilities with my maintenance fees. 

Thank you for the time and effort you put into carrying out your responsibilities


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## LAX Mom (Dec 31, 2009)

I guess in the future both DSV I & DSV II will have the same options available (a la carte pricing) at the JW Marriott Hotel. I think the hotel owner was very short-sighted here and will not see as much revenue now as under the previous arrangement. In this economy he would have guaranteed income under the license agreement, now he has to hope owners use the amenities of the JW for $$ with each use.

How do the villas compare? Will the DSV II villas now be more popular because they are newer or larger? 

Interesting development!


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## cp73 (Dec 31, 2009)

Chalucky can you send me Joe's address. I will also send him a letter. In fact I am sure he is disappointed also. I played tennis with him at the courts several months back. At that time he told me that he felt agreement would be reached. 
This is such a disappointment. I can't believe that the use of the tennis courts is also gone. Also the use of the JW pools was a big attraction for my family. 

I know DSV II also has free access to the courts. I wonder when their agreement comes up for renewal. 

I agree with you that we should no longer be paying for the shuttle service and staff to shuttle over to the JW. I usually walk over anyway.

I wonder what the a la carte menu will be? Probably the same as they charge guests at the hotel.

Happy New Year......I just put my week in March up for rent...going to Maui instead...


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## californiagirl (Jan 1, 2010)

I am very disappointed.   I loved using the spa, but if I have to pay "a la carte" for spa services, then I will be going to a different spa.  There are several spas to choose from in the greater Palm Springs area.  After reading how the owner managed the situation, I think they have alienated their bread and butter customers.  I don't understand their thinking in this difficult economy...especially for the travel industry.

I also agree that the shuttle should be eliminated.  Why facilitate income to the hotel when they have treated the timeshares so poorly.   

We may try Shadow Ridge now.


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## Cathyb (Jan 1, 2010)

*How do DSV I and II compare ...*



LAX Mom said:


> I guess in the future both DSV I & DSV II will have the same options available (a la carte pricing) at the JW Marriott Hotel. I think the hotel owner was very short-sighted here and will not see as much revenue now as under the previous arrangement. In this economy he would have guaranteed income under the license agreement, now he has to hope owners use the amenities of the JW for $$ with each use.
> 
> How do the villas compare? Will the DSV II villas now be more popular because they are newer or larger?
> 
> Interesting development!



DSV-1 is a lot larger than DSV-2, has two jacuzzi tubs instead of one, has fireplace.  It's true DSV-2 units are newer; but now both  have been renovated/upgraded this past year so age has relatively no bearing at this time.  I also think DSV-1 has larger patios and a little closer to the Lobby, store, activity center, etc.


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## Cathyb (Jan 1, 2010)

*Shuttle*



cp73 said:


> Chalucky can you send me Joe's address. I will also send him a letter. In fact I am sure he is disappointed also. I played tennis with him at the courts several months back. At that time he told me that he felt agreement would be reached.
> This is such a disappointment. I can't believe that the use of the tennis courts is also gone. Also the use of the JW pools was a big attraction for my family.
> 
> I know DSV II also has free access to the courts. I wonder when their agreement comes up for renewal.
> ...



Although I am very disappointed in the Spa decision, I would hope they continue the shuttle for 'us old folks'.  We do walk to the hotel during the day, but evenings after dinner it is nice to catch a ride back to the unit.


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## EducatedConsumer (Jan 1, 2010)

Cathyb said:


> Although I am very disappointed in the Spa decision, I would hope they continue the shuttle for 'us old folks'.  We do walk to the hotel during the day, but evenings after dinner it is nice to catch a ride back to the unit.



Why visit or do business with the JW, in light of their disingenuous business tactics and decision that will undoubtedly depreciate the value and enjoyment of Villas 1?

In order to make a point, we as owners need solidarity, not defectors.

My suggestion: discontinue shuttle service between the villas and JW immediately. If the villas does that, I wouldn't put it past the JW to begin operating their own shuttle service between the hotel and villas (like vultures). The villas should deny the JW access to the villas.

CHALUCKY: thank you for posting the statement by the HOA. I would have never thought of checking the Marriott website. 

It appears that the HOA worked in good faith to sustain the agreement. I just wish they were more communicative about what was going on.

No word, though, on how DSV intends to accommodate the resulting new demand for the fitness center in the club house. Neither the fitness center in the club house or jasmine court are great, and they fall way short on the equipment that the fitness center at the hotel includes.


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## caroln (Jan 1, 2010)

*Tennis*

I too am very disappointed in Marriott's decision. Does anybody know if tennis is also gone?


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## Swice (Jan 1, 2010)

*Back in November*

We stayed at DSV II over Thanksgiving.    

After reading these boards, I was a bit concerned that we would be "missing out" since we didn't have access to the JW amenities that our neighbors in phase I had.     

We did try to book a couple of spa sessions at the JW.    We tried to schedule them back to back for my wife and I and asked if we could trade off watching our kids at the JW pool only during the time the other was in the spa.    They told us no... that one would have to ride the shuttle back to the villas and switch off there.    With the travel time back and forth between the villas for each of us, we were looking at nearly four hours.     It just became too inconvenient and we saved the spa money.    

While our "no" answer certainly didn't ruin our experience, it admittedly was in the back of our minds when we decided not to eat at one of the JW restaurants that week (wasn't the only factor, but did play into the decision).

We did ride the shuttle over one evening and walked around.

We had a fantastic week of vacation.   And in all honesty, our week would have been just as fantastic without our shuttle ride over to the hotel.   

I would urge the Villas to save the shuttle and personnel expense.   If the hotel wants to pay a shuttle to ferry potential customers, by all means, open the gate and let the hotel's shuttle roll in.   At this point, the JW is no different from any other business in town.   The timeshares don't "shuttle" to Ralph's or any other Palm Desert business, right?     


From a business stand point, I simply don't understand the mentality of some of these hotel owners.

We own at Myrtle Beach and the Marriott Hotel there is literally feet away from the timeshares.   I remember the first year the timeshares opened and the timeshare managers were very clear we were not to walk over there and use the pools (some of ours were still under construction).   However, they said we could go over there and pay for spa treatments or eat at the restaurants.   Eventually, the hotel built a fence to block the timeshare owners from going over to the hotel pool (again, I'm not kidding the timeshares are only feet away from the hotel pools).    The first couple of years, the hotel could have made some money off of timeshare users because the hotel has a poolside restaurant/bar (the timeshares have their own now).     Ironically, now the timeshares have to police against hotel guests from coming over to our nicer pool areas.

A few years back, we went to Canyon Ridge in Phoenix.   We rode the shuttle over to the JW pool and spent more time over there than we had planned.   We also spent money at the hotel poolside restaurant.    We had such a pleasant experience, we went back to the hotel for dinner one night.    

All of this discussion makes me nervous about Lakeshore Reserve in Orlando.   I need to pull out my documents.    If I'm not mistaken, the right of usage of the JW pools is written into the documents.   But I don't remember if there is an expiration date on usage???


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## Superchief (Jan 1, 2010)

It is interesting that the letter states that hotel management is different than the hotel owner. Therefore, this does not appear to be driven by Marriott. Hopefully, this situation will not expand to other Marriott timeshares with access to hotel/resort facilities.


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## EducatedConsumer (Jan 1, 2010)

SWICE: You raise an interesting point about Lake Shore Reserve and any other Marriott timeshare that abuts a Marriott hotel. 

I'm beginning to appreciate something that I had not before. When we purchased our first Marriott timeshare a long time ago, we were led to believe two things: (1) trust us, we're the Marriott that you've done business with and come to trust for years, and (2) as it relates to the abutting hotel(s), that we were doing business with the Marriott brand (not the hotel's owners, who we incorrectly thought was Marriott).

Both have since proven false. It is becoming increasingly apparent that decisions are not made by Marriott about the operations of the hotel, but the hotel's owners, and the owner's seem to rule the roost no matter what name is on the sign over the front door.

I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if the Marriott timeshare people are selling Lake Shore Reserve with the expectation that timeshare owners have access to the hotel. I suspect that written deep down in the documents that most people don't read is a provision that says that that relationship can come to an end with notice (as is the case at DSVI).


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## LilMsFoodie (Jan 1, 2010)

*Marriott doesn't own Desert Springs hotel, just manages it*

Marriott is just the managing company for most of the Marriott hotels.  They own maybe 5% of the hotels carrying the Marriott name.  This is the same for most chains.  The owner of the actual property is under no obligation to extend courtesy to Time Share owners.  I imagine many owners do not want Time Share owners who often travel with extended families using the hotel resources.  I most certainly can see that in the Palm Desert area.  

Happens all the time.  If the owner of the Desert Springs Marriott is offered a better cut from, for instance, Starwood, they would change management names in an instant.  

A local hotel here in my area, Sanibel Harbor Resort and Spa has been managed by a string of companies.  This year it is managed by Marriott, finally giving Marriott a higher profile in Lee County, Florida.


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## chalucky (Jan 1, 2010)

*HOA Pres contact*

Mail sent to *Joseph Lawrence *is directed by MVCI site to go c/o the Resort Manager:

*susan.belleville@vacationclub.com*

She is on vacation so you will get an auto-response.

Perhaps someone has a direct email, but it isn't posted anywhere as far as I can see.


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## chalucky (Jan 1, 2010)

Cathyb said:


> Although I am very disappointed in the Spa decision, I would hope they continue the shuttle for 'us old folks'.  We do walk to the hotel during the day, but evenings after dinner it is nice to catch a ride back to the unit.




With all due respect, I think any concerted attempt to convince the hotel owner of our displeasure begins with hitting him where it hurts. There is, without a doubt, serious revenues generated by visiting owners, exchangers, and their guests. My thought is that if a villa guest really wants to use the resturant at the JW, he should demand that his parking ticket should be validated.....(remember when there was free parking at the hotel?) 

Furthermore, the shuttles are expensive to operate in terms of manpower & there are vehicles to maintain. If the hotel owner wants to bring guests over for the privelege of paying for a la carte services....well, let him pay for the shuttle to do it. I for one will not go to the JW to eat if I can't use the pools & fitness club so it's a huge waste of my maintenance fees to maintain the shuttle fleet.


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## chalucky (Jan 1, 2010)

Finally, while Starwood does so many things worse than Marriott....in this case there is never a similar issue.

I have stayed at Westin TS's in Maui and Mission Hills and Timeshare users are never charged for the "privelege" of using their regular facilities (ie. health club, and pools)....the spa is a different and understandable exception, but remember that DSV 1 were paying separately for the privelege in our MF's.


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## LisaH (Jan 1, 2010)

Are you sure? When we stayed at Westin Maui Timeshare last year, we were told that we couldn't use Westin hotel pool. 
I am an owner at Marriott Canyon Villas. This new dvelopment worries me that JW Desert Ridge might also do something similar to us.


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## natstr (Jan 1, 2010)

Wow -- major disappointment.  We're still in escrow on DSV I and we paid a slight premium compared to the other two area Marriotts in the area due to the access to the hotel pools and spa (I've got three kids, so the pools were a big draw).  I may have to reconsider now and I have to think it will have some impact on resale and maybe trading value if it stands as is today.  

Paul


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## Superchief (Jan 1, 2010)

LisaH,
Hopefully, since this is a problem with the hotel owners, not Marriott, similar situations will not necessarily develop at other resorts. One difference with Canyon Villas is that the spa access already requires a fee (except for Platinum MR), so the situation is a little different.

I recently learned that the Palms resort access to the Marriott Orlando World Center resort facilities was extended for 20 yr. in 2004.


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## Cathyb (Jan 1, 2010)

*Educated Consumer*



EducatedConsumer said:


> Why visit or do business with the JW, in light of their disingenuous business tactics and decision that will undoubtedly depreciate the value and enjoyment of Villas 1?
> 
> In order to make a point, we as owners need solidarity, not defectors.
> 
> ...



Sorry, but I don't happen to agree with you and truly resent being called a defector just because I don't agree with your ideas! :annoyed:  We enjoy the Japanese Restaurant and will continue to eat there, arriving by their free boat. We also enjoy looking in their high end stores.  You need to take five deep breaths and relax a little.


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## Mauifun (Jan 1, 2010)

*Marriott Hotel - Palm Desert*

The more I hear about closing the fitness center at the spa and not being willing to renegotiate our use of the spa and other hotel facilities, the more I wonder if the hotel owners are in desperate financial shape due to the recession. I would not be surprised if they declared bankruptcy and closed the hotel although I hope it doesn't happen.


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## EducatedConsumer (Jan 2, 2010)

Mauifun said:


> The more I hear about closing the fitness center at the spa and not being willing to renegotiate our use of the spa and other hotel facilities, the more I wonder if the hotel owners are in desperate financial shape due to the recession. I would not be surprised if they declared bankruptcy and closed the hotel although I hope it doesn't happen.



Declare bankruptcy? Close the hotel? I guess the chances of Host doing that  are remote. 

The hotel is owned by Host Hotels. Host has very deep pockets. www.hosthotels.com. Not to suggest that other company's with deep pockets haven't declared bankruptcy, but Host's portfolio is diverse enough to withstand a lot of risk. Might Host contemplate selling the hotel, I would speculate so. But that's nothing but very abstract speculation.

Back on topic, I suggest that we DSVI owners consider starting a website like this one:  www.aocconcernedowners.com


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## MOXJO7282 (Jan 2, 2010)

chalucky said:


> - for instance they have insisted that DSV indemnify the hotel if any Owner or guest is injured by their negligence, while both significantly increasing the license fee and limiting to six the total number of spa visits allowed per unit week.



No offense to the attorneys out there but, I bet this is a big part of the problem . I've assisted in negotiating many multi-million dollar deals, the biggst over $100 million, and the legal wrangling is almost always the roadblocks to getting things done. Owner's attorneys will say you need to add X to your deal to cover some unlikely insurance liability and the deal is 30% higher as a result.


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## Fredm (Jan 2, 2010)

EducatedConsumer said:


> Declare bankruptcy? Close the hotel? I guess the chances of Host doing that  are remote.
> 
> The hotel is owned by Host Hotels. Host has very deep pockets. www.hosthotels.com. Not to suggest that other company's with deep pockets haven't declared bankruptcy, but Host's portfolio is diverse enough to withstand a lot of risk. Might Host contemplate selling the hotel, I would speculate so. But that's nothing but very abstract speculation.
> 
> Back on topic, I suggest that we DSVI owners consider starting a website like this one:  www.aocconcernedowners.com



The decision to terminate the agreement with Villas I has everything to do with preserving the Spa and hotel pool as a quality experience for guests. That's why they decided to terminate it, rather than simply negotiate a higher amount.

I am disappointed also that the agreement was not renewed.
But, I see the reasons for it.

Those who wish the Spa experience can pay for it. Those who do not use, no longer have to pay for those that do.
And, the bet is that once Villas I owners have to pay a use fee, they will not simply treat it as an extension of Villas amenities. 

It may not be popular to say, but the hotel pool and bar is not a 'family oriented' environment. The hotel is a golf/tennis and convention resort. The Villas I agreement was tenuous at best for the past 2 renewals.

I don't know what you are so excited about. Marriott has not done anything wrong here.
You can boycott the hotel amenities all you like. But, pleeease, don't make it sound like you were spending your money at the hotel because you were subsidizing Marriott.


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## melroseman (Jan 2, 2010)

*DSVI disccontinuing use of JW Marriott facilities*

The use of JW Marriott facilities has been and is a significant selling point for some Marriott timeshares.  We own at Canyon Villas and Lakeshore Reserve in large part because of the ability to use the adjacent hotel pools and spas; we originally bought at Kauai Beach Club because those resort facilities are part of the package.  I know MVCI has reserved the right to discontinue those associations whenever, but by doing so they would hurt themselves, and have hurt themselves by discontinuing at DSVI.  I have been watching the resale market for DSVI villas at the right price, but now there is no advantage to me over DSVII or Shadow Ridge.  And if I thought they would pull the plug at Canyon Villas or Lakeshore I would probably not be interested in any more Marriotts.  Everything has consequences, even for Marriott.


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## chalucky (Jan 2, 2010)

Fredm said:


> It may not be popular to say, but the hotel pool and bar is not a 'family oriented' environment.



I am not sure what you mean by this...my children loved the multiple pools and jacuzzis.

The bar/resturant by the pools has no equal in any of the Marriott timeshares I have visited and is very kid friendly. 

Doesn't matter....all gone now. 

Owners please write in to the HOA President and lets discontinue paying for expensive shuttle service.


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## daisy23 (Jan 2, 2010)

It is unfortunate that the parties could not reach a new agreement.  However, I do not agree with recommending that the shuttle be stopped.  The shuttle provides a service around the properties, I and II, and gives a lift to the hotel for those wanting to see the hotel, walk around, perhaps eat, etc.  without having to take a car.


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## billymach4 (Jan 2, 2010)

chalucky said:


> I am not sure what you mean by this...my children loved the multiple pools and jacuzzis.
> 
> The bar/resturant by the pools has no equal in any of the Marriott timeshares I have visited and is very kid friendly.
> 
> ...



On a weekend in the summer of 2008 I visited the pool area of the JW Marriott. I was encouraged to do so by fellow tuggers here. It is a beautiful resort. However on this weekend there was an abundance of young and old drinking alcoholic beverages in great excess. The pool area was absolutely littered around the lounge chairs with empty cups and beer cans. When we finally found an empty lounge chair, 2 drunk young men passed out nearby. The staff did not even attempt to clean up the litter until after the crowd had dissipated. 

As a result of this experience my I was not impressed with the clientèle that visits the JW Pool at Palm Desert. I would have to agree that the JW Pool is not geared for young children.


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## Latravel (Jan 2, 2010)

Well, I've always reserved DSV I specifically for the use of the JW pools and spa over all other resorts.   Now with that amenity gone, I will not stay there again since there are newer resorts, such as Shadow Ridge.  This is a pity, especially for DSV I owners, where the demand for their timeshare may be impacted and for everyone else who enjoyed the hotel amenities.  Too bad.


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## cruisin (Jan 3, 2010)

melroseman said:


> The use of JW Marriott facilities has been and is a significant selling point for some Marriott timeshares.  We own at Canyon Villas and Lakeshore Reserve in large part because of the ability to use the adjacent hotel pools and spas; we originally bought at Kauai Beach Club because those resort facilities are part of the package.  I know MVCI has reserved the right to discontinue those associations whenever, but by doing so they would hurt themselves, and have hurt themselves by discontinuing at DSVI.  I have been watching the resale market for DSVI villas at the right price, but now there is no advantage to me over DSVII or Shadow Ridge.  And if I thought they would pull the plug at Canyon Villas or Lakeshore I would probably not be interested in any more Marriotts.  Everything has consequences, even for Marriott.



I attended a Lake Shore Reserve presentation very early and was told I could have use of the Ritz Pool, the next presentation I attended it was gone, glad I did not purchase the first time, it made it very tempting, I am sure the price of DSVI will drop, but at least maintenence fees will go down.and if you believe that......


Cut off the shuttle!!


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## EducatedConsumer (Jan 3, 2010)

billymach4 said:


> On a weekend in the summer of 2008 I visited the pool area of the JW Marriott. I was encouraged to do so by fellow tuggers here. It is a beautiful resort. However on this weekend there was an abundance of young and old drinking alcoholic beverages in great excess. The pool area was absolutely littered around the lounge chairs with empty cups and beer cans. When we finally found an empty lounge chair, 2 drunk young men passed out nearby. The staff did not even attempt to clean up the litter until after the crowd had dissipated.
> 
> As a result of this experience my I was not impressed with the clientèle that visits the JW Pool at Palm Desert. I would have to agree that the JW Pool is not geared for young children.



The crowd that you witnessed is a byproduct of $99/night hotel rooms in the middle of the summer. 

Come to think of it, I'd have to be impaired to want to lounge around the pool at the JW in the middle of the summer.

The impact of our nation's economy seems to have dealt a low blow to the JW.


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## dash (Jan 3, 2010)

*Dsv 1*

My Question is to Fredm

Do you feel that the value of the DSV 1 will now be reduced because of this decision?  When we purchased this particular timeshare, the push was because of the "villa amenity", The Spa.

Originally posted by Fredm, "The decision to terminate the agreement with Villas I has everything to do with preserving the Spa and hotel pool as a quality experience for guests. That's why they decided to terminate it, rather than simply negotiate a higher amount.

I am disappointed also that the agreement was not renewed.
But, I see the reasons for it.

Those who wish the Spa experience can pay for it. Those who do not use, no longer have to pay for those that do.
And, the bet is that once Villas I owners have to pay a use fee, they will not simply treat it as an extension of Villas amenities. "

It may not be popular to say, but the hotel pool and bar is not a 'family oriented' environment. The hotel is a golf/tennis and convention resort. The Villas I agreement was tenuous at best for the past 2 renewals.

I don't know what you are so excited about. Marriott has not done anything wrong here.
You can boycott the hotel amenities all you like. But, pleeease, don't make it sound like you were spending your money at the hotel because you were subsidizing Marriott.


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## Empty Nest (Jan 3, 2010)

"The crowd that you witnessed is a byproduct of $99/night hotel rooms in the middle of the summer." 

Nope!  Read the reviews on Trip Advisor for this hotel.  We've stayed there in the dead of winter, high season.  It's a weekend get away for college kids, bachelor parties and spring breakers.  Last March we spent a week on points in an upgraded hotel room overlooking the pool, then moved to Villas II for the following week.  It was pretty calm Sunday-Friday, but on the weekend the action at the pool, lobby, and hallways was unbelievable.  And loud!

It was obvious many people were staying in each room along with many beer bongs.

We like the hotel and restaurants, and DH is a tennis player.  But we avoid the main pool.  There is a quiet pool at the back of the hotel that the kids avoid.
Our next stay there will be on a Sunday through Friday.
Jolene


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## billymach4 (Jan 3, 2010)

*I feel redeemed.*



Empty Nest said:


> "The crowd that you witnessed is a byproduct of $99/night hotel rooms in the middle of the summer."
> 
> Nope!  Read the reviews on Trip Advisor for this hotel.  We've stayed there in the dead of winter, high season.  It's a weekend get away for college kids, bachelor parties and spring breakers.  Last March we spent a week on points in an upgraded hotel room overlooking the pool, then moved to Villas II for the following week.  It was pretty calm Sunday-Friday, but on the weekend the action at the pool, lobby, and hallways was unbelievable.  And loud!
> 
> ...




Thank You Jolene for the support! Now I know it was not just my sole experience.


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## chalucky (Jan 3, 2010)

Frankly, whether the pools at the JW were full of maniacal savages or not
is not germane to the conversation. Access to the pools is moot ....that  ship has sailed. (Of course, I personally have been there on TEN separate vacations without having anything less than a kid-friendly experience). 

The point at hand is how do owners at DSV 1 respond to being unceremoniously disinvited from using the services at the hotel. ( Of course one could purchase a la carte services just as if you stopped by the hotel while walking down the street. I say no thanks to that welcome mat).

I would suggest that the shuttle services are an expensive luxury that serves the interests of the hotel and only a tiny subset of the DSV owners. Certainly one can fairly ask why the shuttle should go to the JW at all given their attitude to the timeshare HOA ....can't one argue that taking guests to other local community shopping and eateries (as I believe the Newport Coast shuttle does) is a more justifiable expenditure of HOA fees ?


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## cruisin (Jan 4, 2010)

chalucky said:


> Frankly, whether the pools at the JW were full of maniacal savages or not
> is not germane to the conversation. Access to the pools is moot ....that  ship has sailed. (Of course, I personally have been there on TEN separate vacations without having anything less than a kid-friendly experience).
> 
> The point at hand is how do owners at DSV 1 respond to being unceremoniously disinvited from using the services at the hotel. ( Of course one could purchase a la carte services just as if you stopped by the hotel while walking down the street. I say no thanks to that welcome mat).
> ...



Maybe $2 a shuttle trip would be a pretty fair use fee for those using the service. 

Use fees are a great way to increase costs to owners without increasing dues. So basically, dues increased about $50 more this year than whatever increase there already was, it will be interesting to see next years dues with the overage from this years dues, its a pretty substantial overage.


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## thinze3 (Jan 4, 2010)

LisaH said:


> Are you sure? When we stayed at Westin Maui Timeshare last year, we were told that we couldn't use Westin hotel pool.
> I am an owner at Marriott Canyon Villas. This new dvelopment worries me that JW Desert Ridge might also do something similar to us.




You are correct. We were told that the Westin Hotel pool was off limits as well during our visit to WKORV.


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## pianodinosaur (Jan 4, 2010)

thinze3 said:


> You are correct. We were told that the Westin Hotel pool was off limits as well during our visit to WKORV.



 This is a revolting set of developments at both Marriott and Starwood.  Hilton has not permitted guests at HGVC affiliated properties to have courtesy access to the nearby hotel facilities.  A good example is that guests at the Bay Club in Waikoloa do not have access to the pool at Hilton Hawaiian Village Waikoloa.  However, Hilton has always permitted guests at Hilton developed properties to have courtesy access to the nearby hotel facilities.  Therefore, guests at Kingsland and HGVC Waikoloa Beach Resort do have courtesy access to the pool at Hilton Hawaiian Village Waikoloa. During our stay at HGVC at Hilton Hawaiian Village Lagoon Tower Oahu, we were able to bill our meals at the hotel to our timeshare room.  During our stay at HGVC at the Las Vegas Hilton, we were also able to bill our meals at the hotel to our timeshare room.  We ate most our meals at the Hilton Hotel Restaurants as a result of these courtesies.

I think it is very counterproductive for Marriott and Starwood to do anything that would discourage the use of their hotel facilities.  We who use timeshares also stay in hotels, go to conventions, weddings, and anniversary parties. I am currently considering attending a meeting at the JW Camelback Inn Scottsdale this March.  Perhaps we should consider moving future Scottsdale meetings to the Hilton or the Doubletree resorts.


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## Fredm (Jan 4, 2010)

dash said:


> My Question is to Fredm
> 
> Do you feel that the value of the DSV 1 will now be reduced because of this decision?  When we purchased this particular timeshare, the push was because of the "villa amenity", The Spa.



No, I don't.


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## jcr (Jan 4, 2010)

I like the idea of not maintaining the shuttle service and have sent Ms. Belleville an email on the subject.  Since the hotel feels they will make so much more money charging a la carte prices, they should be able to afford to pick up and drop off those that would like to use their services.


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## rthib (Jan 4, 2010)

pianodinosaur said:


> I think it is very counterproductive for Marriott and Starwood to do anything that would discourage the use of their hotel facilities.  We who use timeshares also stay in hotels, go to conventions, weddings, and anniversary parties. I am currently considering attending a meeting at the JW Camelback Inn Scottsdale this March.  Perhaps we should consider moving future Scottsdale meetings to the Hilton or the Doubletree resorts.



This is not Marriott doing anything, this is Host which owns the hotel doing this.

I would not worry about Canyon Villas/Desert Ridge since Desert Ridge is one of the few Marriott's owned by Marriott. (and one of Mr. Marriott's favorite)


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## davidvel (Jan 4, 2010)

And don't forget Marriott owns few, if any of the timeshares either. They are owned by the HOAs, and managed by Marriott.


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## chalucky (Jan 4, 2010)

*Response from Susan Belleville on behalf of the HOA*

Thank you for your email and feedback.  We too were very disappointed with the outcome or the lack of an Agreement with the Hotel Owner, Host.  Your Board worked very hard to establish something and it just didn’t happen.  I have sent your email to the Board of Directors for them to see your suggestion and comments as they proceed.  We do look forward to welcoming you back on your next vacation.



Sincerely,

Susan Belleville

General Manager

Marriott's Desert Springs Villas

760-779-1201 (direct phone #)

susan.belleville@vacationclub.com


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## Lawlar (Jan 5, 2010)

*Sales Pitch for Use of Pool*



thinze3 said:


> You are correct. We were told that the Westin Hotel pool was off limits as well during our visit to WKORV.



When we stayed at Westin a few years ago, we took their sales tour.  A main part of the sales pitch was that owners would have the right to use the pools at the Westin.  They told us that the bus service would bring us right to the hotel and have towels for our use.  We almost bought a TS from Westin because we love the pools at the hotel.

Instead we bought at Marriott because we prefer its location.  We would be really upset with Westin if we had purchased a TS and we were then excluded from the hotel pools.  What a ripoff!


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## elizfield (Jan 6, 2010)

*Just how much is the daily fee?*

If I understand correctly their is a daily fee to use the pools and gym (I assume the gym), how much is it? 

As for the comments about it being suitable for small children, I was there over a weekend and the Saturday was full of the types of people described above but the Sunday was calm and nice. I was actually staying at the hotel and it was old and poorly run.


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## slamdunk (Jan 7, 2010)

*Marriott Desert Springs Villas I*

We've owned 2 weeks since the late 90's. A couple years ago the Spa & workout facilities were closed for renovation. We work out daily and use the steam, showers, etc. We have waited in line for over an hour to check in. The past two years we were placed in units quite far from the ones we requested; but were moved- not fun. Every time we call or ask about procedures regarding requests, we get a different answer. It has been a hassle.

I don't imagine our expenses will decrease to offset the increased usage fee. There was no mention of this in the letter. The cost of the Spa, pool, workout, etc is $175/week for a couple. This isn't bad, but it's unexpected and no mention was made of the negotiations when we booked our late March vacation.

We may need to use our 1.2 million points and begin selling our units. I do not think the organization is the same as it was when we bought.

If Marriott does not enter into the negotiations in support of MVCI owners, what is the benefit of having Marriott's name on anything?


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## DeniseM (Jan 7, 2010)

Lawlar said:


> When we stayed at Westin a few years ago, we took their sales tour.  A main part of the sales pitch was that owners would have the right to use the pools at the Westin.  They told us that the bus service would bring us right to the hotel and have towels for our use.  We almost bought a TS from Westin because we love the pools at the hotel.
> 
> Instead we bought at Marriott because we prefer its location.  We would be really upset with Westin if we had purchased a TS and we were then excluded from the hotel pools.  What a ripoff!



This was actually changed shortly after the timeshare opened, and I think it benefited timeshare owners.  During high season the pools at the hotel were  so packed, that hotel guests were coming over to use the TS pools and they were over-run by hotel guests. Timeshare owners were not happy to be crowded out of their own property by hotel guests.


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## Lawlar (Jan 7, 2010)

*Disappointing*



DeniseM said:


> This was actually changed shortly after the timeshare opened, and I think it benefited timeshare owners.  During high season the pools at the hotel were  so packed, that hotel guests were coming over to use the TS pools and they were over-run by hotel guests. Timeshare owners were not happy to be crowded out of their own property by hotel guests.



Thank you Denise - I was going to send you an email on this topic; you saved me the effort.

If I remember correctly, the pools at the Westin TS do not include waterfalls and are not as elaborate as the pools at the hotel.  Our grandkid loved the pools at the hotel.  He would have been really unhappy to learn that our TS at Westin, if we had bought there, was excluded from participating in the hotel activities.

I have plenty of issues with Marriott as well.  The bottom line is that many of the representations made to us by the TS salespeople prove to be false.  That is not only disappointing but very costly to all of us.

I stayed at Desert Springs several times last year and really enjoyed it.  If I had purchased there and was told that my TS gave me the right to use the hotel facilities, I would be extremely upset.  I support those who would end the bus service to the hotel.  Why not negotiate with another hotel and change the bus route to include a competing hotel?  Maybe that would get Marriott to treat its customers with a little more respect.


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## korndoc (Jan 10, 2010)

Lawlar said:


> Why not negotiate with another hotel and change the bus route to include a competing hotel?  Maybe that would get Marriott to treat its customers with a little more respect.



That's a great idea, rather than giving up having a really nice spa to go to.

We gave up our mid-March week to II this week, rather than go there for our vacation this year.

Jeff


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## korndoc (Jan 10, 2010)

I just wrote to susan.belleville@vacationclub.com

I told her we should quit the shuttle service and also gave her Lawlar's suggestion about negotiating with another hotel to use their spa and pool.

I also expressed concern regarding the small workout room at the DSV and how that will be impacted by those who used to work out at the hotel but will now stay at DSV

We all should write her.  

Jeff


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## EducatedConsumer (Jan 10, 2010)

korndoc said:


> That's a great idea, rather than giving up having a really nice spa to go to.
> 
> We gave up our mid-March week to II this week, rather than go there for our vacation this year.
> 
> Jeff



Here is a neighboring Marriott hotel with a spa:

Esmarelda Renaissance Indian Wells Resort and Spa

http://www.marriott.com/hotels/travel/pspsr-esmeralda-renaissance-indian-wells-resort-and-spa/

3.73 miles/7 minutes between Desert Springs Villas and Esmarelda. If Esmarelda isn't owned by Host, I bet they'd love the business, as it's my understanding that spa business has been impacted dramtically by the current economy.


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## pwrshift (Jan 10, 2010)

Host and Marriott closely connected. Seems like Host is part of the family from this post in Bill Marriott's blog:

_'When we split our company, he moved over to the Host Hotel Board of Directors. Host was the company that retained the ownership of the Marriott Hotels we owned before the split and is now called Host Hotels and Resorts."_

Here's the link to the full story .. quite interesting on how Hose was set up:

http://www.blogs.marriott.com/marri...embering-a-dear-friend-and-personal-hero.htmlhttp://www.blogs.marriott.com/

Brian




EducatedConsumer said:


> The hotel is owned by Host Hotels. Host has very deep pockets. www.hosthotels.com. Not to suggest that other company's with deep pockets haven't declared bankruptcy, but Host's portfolio is diverse enough to withstand a lot of risk. Might Host contemplate selling the hotel, I would speculate so. But that's nothing but very abstract speculation.


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## JT (Jan 11, 2010)

*Not happy*

I have rented a week at DSV1 for 10 years now in june(been visiting the hotel for 20 years) but I will now go to Shadow Ridge.   Our kids love the upper pool at the Hotel.  I never used the spa but the pool is where we would spend a lot of our time.  I also golfed at the hotel.  No More.  I will play across the street at a much better course Desert Willow.  I also will not spend money at the hotel.   We always went to the Japanese Rest during our visit.  We also ate sushi in the lobby.  No More.   I suggest the shuttles either go to the Esmerelda and/or the River Restaurants/Shops.  The restaurants there are better and cheaper.  I believe there is a yardhouse, Flemings, Sushi, etc.  Also the best pizza in PS is called Dorias Haus of Pizza.  A 10 minute drive.  The only part of the hotel I may visit is the club-costas-my buddies will insist on it.


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## dash (Jan 11, 2010)

The Esmeralda is a wonderful hotel.  Albeit; the Spa, although enjoyable is not on the same scale of the Spa at Desert Springs and does not offer the same type of experience.  The access that DSV 1 owners enjoyed at Desert Springs would not be comparable.  I do agree, that the idea is interesting if the right venue was determined based on logistics and expenses.   Otherwise it is like putting a circle into a square.


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## cruisin (Jan 11, 2010)

I doubt the powers at be would let this happen, but what a wake up call it would be


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## Superchief (Jan 11, 2010)

Does anyone know whether guests at DSV1 or DSV2 who are Marriott Platinum Rewards members get complimentary access to the Spa pool and fitness center? Platinmum mebers at Canyon Villas or the JW at Desert Ridge receive complementary access to these facilities.


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## n777lt (Jan 17, 2010)

melroseman said:


> The use of JW Marriott facilities has been and is a significant selling point for some Marriott timeshares.  We own at Canyon Villas and Lakeshore Reserve in large part because of the ability to use the adjacent hotel pools and spas; we originally bought at Kauai Beach Club because those resort facilities are part of the package.  I know MVCI has reserved the right to discontinue those associations whenever, but by doing so they would hurt themselves, and have hurt themselves by discontinuing at DSVI.  I have been watching the resale market for DSVI villas at the right price, but now there is no advantage to me over DSVII or Shadow Ridge.  And if I thought they would pull the plug at Canyon Villas or Lakeshore I would probably not be interested in any more Marriotts.  Everything has consequences, even for Marriott.


+1, even to the extent of having purchased Kauai (in '95 - when the zoo was still next door!), Canyon Villas AND Lakeshore Reserve because of the access to hotel/spa amenities. What's interesting is that Marriott has increasingly co-located MVCIs with  JWs or other Marriott hotel properties -- only to now pull the plug on that feature at DSVI.  A very bad precedent, to be watched closely.


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## rthib (Jan 17, 2010)

Superchief said:


> Does anyone know whether guests at DSV1 or DSV2 who are Marriott Platinum Rewards members get complimentary access to the Spa pool and fitness center? Platinmum mebers at Canyon Villas or the JW at Desert Ridge receive complementary access to these facilities.



I do not believe so.
JW Desert Ridge is owned by Marriott (and a favorite of Mr. Marriott) so they behave much different than those run by others (like Host).


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## cruisin (Jan 18, 2010)

n777lt said:


> +1, even to the extent of having purchased Kauai (in '95 - when the zoo was still next door!), Canyon Villas AND Lakeshore Reserve because of the access to hotel/spa amenities. What's interesting is that Marriott has increasingly co-located MVCIs with  JWs or other Marriott hotel properties -- only to now pull the plug on that feature at DSVI.  A very bad precedent, to be watched closely.



It is a horrible precedent, I am glad that I do not own a marriott at a resort where things can be taken away.


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## applegirl (Jan 20, 2010)

I agree this could be a very bad precedent, but then the JW Marriott in Palm Desert isn't owned by Marriott, as has been explained.  Still, it's just not good for Marriott t/s to have this going on.

I honestly hope Host loses all their revenue from the villas guests.  It would serve them right for a foolish mistake and greedy attitude toward Marriott t/s owners.

Janna


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## caroln (Jan 20, 2010)

The JW Marriott in Desert Springs is owned by Marriott.  Host Hotels is a division of Marriott.  At least that is what I was recently told by the Manager of a Sales Group.  He seemed very knowledgeable.  We were looking at Grande Lakes in Orlando with an adjacent Marriott and of course the sales pitch was look at all the facilities you can use at the Marriott including the lazy river.  It turns out that the right to use the Hotel facilities could also be taken away if the Hotel chose not to renew the contract.  Of course they don't mention that!


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## sernow (Jan 20, 2010)

Host is a separate entity from Marriott and is run by JW's brother, Richard Marriott. The brothers split the company back in 1993 during a bondholder protest.


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