# What disadvantages do I have in buying [Wyndham] resale?



## TS Neophyte (May 3, 2009)

I am able to buy (through an eBay auction) 154K Annual Wyndham/FF points for $103. The location is Branson, MO. The MF is $69 a month. Included is a lifetime membership in RCI

I know this is a lot less than people have paid, so I want to make sure I'm not missing anything important. Here are a few Q's I have

1. What disadvantages will I have b/c I'm buying a resale?

2. When I went on a FF seminar they said that anything you book within 45 days of travel is booked as a blue week (roughly 44K points). Is that true, and is ther ever any availability?

3. What are some of the risks I have in buying this?

4. How have people found the booking system to be in terms of ease of use?

5. Besides my MF which is $828 a year, what other costs should I anticipate if I don't plan on using my home resort, but rather traveling all around?

6. How does banking points work?

I know these are tons of questions, but I will greatly appreciate anyone who can help me with any or all of the answers!

Thanks,
LB


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## Keitht (May 3, 2009)

Given the number of questions you are asking I don't think you should make the Ebay purchase at present.  You need to find out a lot more about how the system may or may not work for you before committing your cash.


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## TS Neophyte (May 3, 2009)

*Thanks but I could use more help than that*

While I truly appreciate your response, I was hoping this was a forum I could use to learn what I don't know from people who do. I have attended seminars from all the major TS companies, so I'm somewhat familiar, I'm just looking for more info. If you would direct me to a different place that I could find these answers, I would be happy to go and research. Also, I'm not expecting everyone to answer all the questions. If everyone gives me one or two answers, I feel I could be helped immeasurably. 

Thanks,
LB


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## Patri (May 3, 2009)

1. Basically, no disadvantages to buying resale. None worth the extra money, anyway.
3. Risks - just make sure you go through a reputable closing company and that the contract matches what the eBay listing is selling.
5. The extra cost would be the RCI exchange fee. You should be able to get a couple weeks of vacation with that many points. The Wyndham forum elsewhere on TUG should have lots of answers. Just start reading all the posts. (Maybe it is under Points).


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## ttt (May 3, 2009)

That's alot of maint. fees for 154K points. The purchase price is great, but your yearly costs are excessive. I don't see any problems buying resale, but I would look for a less costly alternative to this contract.


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## rickandcindy23 (May 3, 2009)

Banking points into RCI is very easy; you bank points online at the Wyndham website, logged into your account.  Then you call a special RCI phone number, tell them your free RCI account number, and you are in business.  

Relying on last-minute exchanges is not terribly risky, but how are you going to know what is there, if you don't own a week to search?  That is a key component in using RCI to your best advantage--knowing what is there to request with your Wyndham points' deposits.  You can get an inexpensive (free) week at a resort somewhere, and what you see with that week, you can get with your low points deposits.  

The MF costs per 1,000 are excessive for Branson, though it makes no sense to me, and I would avoid Branson for a purchase. 

There are lots of ways to do what you want.  I personally like RCI Points for last-minute getaways.


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## bnoble (May 3, 2009)

To get up to speed quickly on Wyndham, I'd recommend reading the "Primer" document here:

forums.atozed.com

However, I also agree that you are not ready to buy.  Take your time, there is no hurry---these deeds are almost literally a dime a dozen.


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## wsholaway (May 3, 2009)

I recently purchased 329k off ebay at wyndham majestic sun in destin.  Im new and asked these same questions, but what I've learned so far is the only disadvantages in buying resale is that you dont get VIP benefits...you wouldnt anyway with 154k points.  if you want to travel different places, Id find one with cheaper MF's.  the advantage of owning at a certain resort is that you can book 13 months out there as opposed to 10 months out at any other wyndham resort.  ive also heard that wyndham doesnt trade great with RCI so I recommend buying only if you want to stay at wyndham resorts most of the time.  resale is definately the way to go!!! the money you save is enough to pay MF's for years.


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## Jya-Ning (May 3, 2009)

If you just bought a contract from Wyndham, and thinking about figure out what is the disadvantage or advantage, my suggestion is *Rescind Now*.

There are short term difference, but in 1 year, the only difference is the purchase amount.  

And two big disadvantages in the long run is you buy with so little, you will over purchase, and find out you will need to pay MF more than your purchase amount.  And you may easily just walk off from it when things not work.

When you ready to become VIP, you can just purchase 300k from Wyndham.

Jya-Ning


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## TS Neophyte (May 3, 2009)

*Wyndham Killing FF??*



wsholaway said:


> I recently purchased 329k off ebay at wyndham majestic sun in destin.  Im new and asked these same questions, but what I've learned so far is the only disadvantages in buying resale is that you dont get VIP benefits...you wouldnt anyway with 154k points.  if you want to travel different places, Id find one with cheaper MF's.  the advantage of owning at a certain resort is that you can book 13 months out there as opposed to 10 months out at any other wyndham resort.  ive also heard that wyndham doesnt trade great with RCI so I recommend buying only if you want to stay at wyndham resorts most of the time.  resale is definately the way to go!!! the money you save is enough to pay MF's for years.



I just read a very informative article at the 
Wyndham Owners Forum saying that ever since Wyndham took over FF they have been making things worse and worse for the owners, upping transfer fees, fees for guest certificate etc. and also renting out a lot of the inventory through their hotel chain. Have you experienced this?

Thanks for all your help!


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## TS Neophyte (May 3, 2009)

Jya-Ning said:


> If you just bought a contract from Wyndham, and thinking about figure out what is the disadvantage or advantage, my suggestion is *Rescind Now*.
> 
> There are short term difference, but in 1 year, the only difference is the purchase amount.
> 
> ...



Why would I want to spend over $25,000 to become a VIP by buying from Wyndham? Are you kidding me? Plus the MF is not that much it is just $828 a year?


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## massvacationer (May 3, 2009)

I would say the maint fees you quote are in the average range - not really low but not terrible

read the primer at forums.atozed.com


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## bnoble (May 3, 2009)

> Have you experienced this?


Yes and no.

These and related changes have been going on for nearly the entire time I've owned.  But, they haven't seriously impacted my ability to get good value out of my (resale) purchase.  And, I suspect that for *most* owners, these changes have had an equally modest material impact.  A few have been truly harmed by them---mostly those using it as a business---and I really feel for them.  Several folks had to make pretty major changes to their business model, and a few got out entirely.

But, if you are buying for your own use, Wyndham can be pretty good deal, despite these nuisances.


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## Timeshare Von (May 3, 2009)

TS Neophyte said:


> I just read a very informative article at the
> Wyndham Owners Forum saying that ever since Wyndham took over FF they have been making things worse and worse for the owners, upping transfer fees, fees for guest certificate etc. and also renting out a lot of the inventory through their hotel chain. Have you experienced this?
> 
> Thanks for all your help!



You have a great resource in the info on the Wyndham owners' group and yes, just about everyone who own in their system has experienced the lessening of the benefits of ownership, especially in points!

FYI - you do not have a lifetime membership in RCI through ownership in Wyndham points.  Your MF will include an amount that goes towards paying your RCI membership, year to year.  If you sell that ownership that has the prepaid RCI membership bundled in, you will lose the RCI membership.  Additionally, it is possible I suppose, for Wyndham to stop bundling the RCI membership. Not sure why they would decide to do so but as we've all learned, the rules and program specifics can be changed by Wyndham and usually not for the benefit of the owners.

Jya is one of the most respected Wyndham owners and his advice should be considered as impartial and looking out for any potential buyer.


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## Timeshare Von (May 3, 2009)

Other costs?  I don't see that anyone explained to you "special assessments."  Even points contract owners can be hit with them.  Some resorts have done some rather extensive, multi-year, assessments . . . adding upwards of $300-$500/year in fees to owners.


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## Timeshare Von (May 3, 2009)

One other comment, it used to be that Wyndham points owners could obtain additional points through the direct "rental" from another Wyndham points owner.  That was closed this year, to the chagrin of many owners.

You don't have to be someone doing mega transactions in either direction to have this be adverse to your situation.  Case in point, I own a very small (77k) points contract.  Pretty much not a lot to do much with.  In my first year of acquisition (from a family member) I had no need/use for them so I rented them to someone who needed more.  This year, I needed more (about 25k) in order to make a reservation this summer . . . and I was able to do so at a very fair and reasonable price.

Next year and moving forward, I can longer rent my points out . . . and if I need to rent points myself, it will be at a premium price directly from Wyndham.  (Convenient to force the market into a monopoly, isn't it?)

The advice to buy only if you plan on using the points yourself is good, but I would also add that you need to make sure you have enough to do what you want/need or you could be facing high rental prices on points necessary for the reservations you hope to make through Wyndham.  Of course, if you're able to maximize your ownership through small (point value) week deposits in RCI, that could all balance out.

Do I have you lost yet?  If so, that would be why Keith (another respected member here) said you might be best served to learn more before jumping into the Ebay market.  That isn't such a great deal that you'll be passing up a "once in a lifetime" opportunity.

(My last two Wyndham ownerships were basically acquired for free, just paying that year's MF for the use of that year's ownership . . . and I'm still not sure I would do them again.)


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## TS Neophyte (May 3, 2009)

*clarification Please?*



Timeshare Von said:


> (My last two Wyndham ownerships were basically acquired for free, just paying that year's MF for the use of that year's ownership . . . and I'm still not sure I would do them again.)



First of all, thanks again to you, Yvonne, to Jya, and to everyone who has been guiding me through this. Although I understand what some people are saying about not being ready, I don't know what possibly could prepare me better than this forum, talking to people who have been there, done that. I have been to developer's seminars, but found that misleading and sometimes downright fraudulent (I once bought a TS and then had to use the 10 day clause to get out after I found out that my salesman had lied to me) I've read the primer (2.0) on the Wyndham owner's site and it has been helpful, but it is dated, so it doesn't help me with all the new changes. Ultimately, this seems to be the best resource I've found so far, so once again thanks to all of you.

Now, Yvonne, why would you not be so sure you would do it again? Is it b/c the MF is too much and you're not finding availability?

I mostly plan on using all 154K to get weeks on RCI and then try to get multiple weeks through using last minute reservation, or just one real good week a year. Does that often not work out so well?

Thanks,
LB


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## Timeshare Von (May 3, 2009)

TS Neophyte said:


> <<snipped>>
> Now, Yvonne, why would you not be so sure you would do it again? Is it b/c the MF is too much and you're not finding availability?
> 
> I mostly plan on using all 154K to get weeks on RCI and then try to get multiple weeks through using last minute reservation, or just one real good week a year. Does that often not work out so well?
> ...



MF's aren't really the issue although my Myrtle Beach Wyndham is very high when you look at the price/1000.  I took that contract off my sister's hands not needing or wanting more timeshare (we already own 4 weeks worth of weeks ownership at some decent places and good for RCI trades).  But because it would give me the oppty to sample points, with the knowledge I could rent them away if I didn't have a use in any given years.  With that gone, I really don't have a real purpose with them.

My other freebie acquisition was a fixed week at Wyndham Flagstaff (wk 12) which we actually love and have used twice in five years of ownership.  Two of the other years we traded it through RCI for Hawaii (twice for b-t-b weeks on a continuous stay).  Last year we rented it privately (through a TUG connection) for the price of the MF.  The "internal trade" benefit in RCI (Wyndham for Wyndham) is nice if we ever use it that way, but so far we haven't as the two Hawaii weeks we got were at Paniolo Greens on the Big Island (a Shell Vacation T/S).

Because the MF is reasonable (around $550 I think) it is OK to keep but I probably wouldn't take it on in today's economy and my present vacation situation at work.  (When we got it, I had more vacation and more opportunity to use it to trade for work travel.)

I don't know that 154k is enough for one really good week, however.  The Wyndham points experts would be best to advise in that regard.  I do know that Hawaii is pretty easy to get with small (points) value weeks, especially with that "internal" exchange preference with RCI.  I have gotten 2BR Hawaii weeks for my 1BR mediocre Kingsgate shoulder season week on a fixed week exchange basis.


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## Timeshare Von (May 3, 2009)

TS Neophyte said:


> First of all, thanks again to you, Yvonne, to Jya, and to everyone who has been guiding me through this. Although I understand what some people are saying about not being ready, I don't know what possibly could prepare me better than this forum, talking to people who have been there, done that.



The important thing is that you did find this forum, the Wyndham Owners' Group and others who are very experienced with Wyndham . . . and you're better off than most who do stumble in here after making a purchase from the developer for tens of thousands of bucks!

Most here, myself included, feel that points systems and with Wyndham especially, can be rather complex and overwhelming.  Many don't understand enough to maximize their ownership, myself included.  I continue to learn as I go thanks to folks on these forums.

If you are comfortable with your initial investment, can afford it, and envision yourself using whatever you buy in the form you have bought it . . . then you'll be fine.  What is scarey to me are all the people who buy for perceived value things and then they find out they misunderstood the policies, or worse yet (and more likely) the policies change.

This is largely why I remain so loyal to my fixed weeks because they are what they are . . . plain, basic, and simple to use.  Other than SA's like what we had over the past three years at Kingsgate . . . or escalating MF's, also my experience with Kingsgate ($495 in 2001 to nearly $800 this year!) . . . there aren't too many surprises that I can't anticipate.  And with any T/S you face the escalating MF and SA burdens, so Wyndham isn't so unique there.

Good luck w/your purchase . . . and continue to read and learn!


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## bnoble (May 4, 2009)

> Although I understand what some people are saying about not being ready, I don't know what possibly could prepare me better than this forum, talking to people who have been there, done that.


It was about 1.5 years between the time I first thought about timeshare and when I bought my first deed---with the last six months spending a lot of time reading.

It's very easy to buy (or, in Yvonne's case, acquire) a timeshare.  It's very hard to get rid of one.  Take your time and learn, rent a unit or two, there is no hurry to buy.  Everyone's situation is a little bit diferent, so the "right thing" for everyone is too.

So far I haven't regretted a single one of the three TSes I own.


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## Twinkstarr (May 4, 2009)

bnoble said:


> It was about 1.5 years between the time I first thought about timeshare and when I bought my first deed---with the last six months spending a lot of time reading.
> 
> It's very easy to buy (or, in Yvonne's case, acquire) a timeshare.  It's very hard to get rid of one.  Take your time and learn, rent a unit or two, there is no hurry to buy.  Everyone's situation is a little bit diferent, so the "right thing" for everyone is too.
> 
> So far I haven't regretted a single one of the three TSes I own.



I'll throw my hat in here also, it took me about 1 yr of reading the primer, reading the on-line ownership manual and reading a lot of Wyndham threads on the various message boards before I bought a contract. And I went EOY to boot.

And I'm not a newbie to TS's (DVC points, Starwood and fixed Bluegreen week). 

Don't rush into anything.


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## Jya-Ning (May 4, 2009)

TS Neophyte said:


> I mostly plan on using all 154K *to get weeks on RCI* and then try to get multiple weeks through using last minute reservation, or just one real good week a year. Does that often not work out so well?



Where and when you want to go, and when you start plan determine if these can be work or not.  If you plan to use it this way 154k is too many.  It will not work for one real good week a year if we assume when you say good most people will agree with it.  Wyndham RCI exchange will need great luck to get good to great week.  After you exchange say 2 or 3 years, good usually mean better than avg and hard to get week.

But if you just want to get over inventory less protect area, or last min type of deal, it is a great way to do it.



TS Neophyte said:


> 2. When I went on a FF seminar they said that anything you book within 45 days of travel is booked as a blue week (roughly 44K points). Is that true, and is ther ever any availability?


it does not work in the internal exchange system.  Even in last day, it is based on the original point value.

Since you are looking at RCI exchange, yes, at 45 days or later, blue week is the same.  And it can be said for any system you can think of.  And Wyndham is not the cheapest among all the systems, but it is reasonable cheap enough if you just want to deposit blue week.



TS Neophyte said:


> 4. How have people found the booking system to be in terms of ease of use?


Internally, I believe they are above average.  Although I don't own a lot of system.  However, they are not the best one, or maybe best 3.

Externally, if you use RCI, unless you can get visible week to deposit, which is kind of luck, and in nowadays sometimes a little bit harder, you have to call RCI VC, so you have to determine man vs machine which one is ease to use.  Usually machine will loss in this regard though.



TS Neophyte said:


> 5. Besides my MF which is $828 a year, what other costs should I anticipate if I don't plan on using my home resort, but rather traveling all around?



Special assessment, and since you mainly want to use RCI, RCI exchange fee.  You may incur house keep cost, transaction cost, guest certification cost, depends on how you use it.



TS Neophyte said:


> 6. How does banking points work?



You bank internally or to RCI or to other independent company.  you call human beings and bank them.  Internally, you have to bank before use year start, and it will give you 3 years from the day you bank.   RCI and other exchange company has their own rules.  But once you bank there, you have to get inventory there.

It adds flexibility to a certain extend.



TS Neophyte said:


> I just read a very informative article at the
> Wyndham Owners Forum saying that ever since Wyndham took over FF they have been making things worse and worse for the owners, upping transfer fees, fees for guest certificate etc. and also renting out a lot of the inventory through their hotel chain. Have you experienced this?



Have you also look at other system?  Especially the other hotel chain systems?  Just go to the thread where the response is high, usually that means owner very upset.

Wyndham take over FF since 2000.  I have been owner since 2000, so can not tell you what is the big difference.

I believe the cost will be up no matter what you think.  And Wyndham has been increase the cost expecting for holding up the next 5 or 10 years.

However, since last 3 years, the flexibility of use does get reduced.

Don't know about renting part.  It happens long time ago, and for last 9 years, every year, Wyndham has continue adding a lot new inventories, so it is very hard to tell where their rent inventory actual come from.  This is the 1st year (2009) we will expect them to slow down to add new inventories.

JMHO, unless Wyndham can show the reason they want to reduce the  flexibility, and result after they reduce the flexibility, and it is very strong correlation to see the step they take is the only way, owner should try to fight to maintain the flexibility.

Since you plan to deposit to RCI, these will very unlikely affect your usage.

General suggestion is you should study until you either feel very comfortable what you are dealing with, or you know how to handle them (get rid of it, or rent it out) before you make any purchase.  $130 initial purchase and $850 every year MF if you don't us it is still very costly, although it could be better than $25,000 initial purchase and 700 MF follow up.  But IMHO there is not much difference in both cases.

Jya-Ning


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## TS Neophyte (May 4, 2009)

*I' humbled by your outpouring of responses and help*

Thank you all so much, you have really spent a lot of your time helping me with my decisions and it is truly appreciated. I think I will hold off for a while and try to get a better feeling from all the forums out there before I go ahead and purchase...

Thanks so much!


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## bnoble (May 4, 2009)

In the meantime, do consider renting from an owner.  You'll get a better sense if the timeshare vacation style is right for you.  It's quite different from a hotel stay.  Naturally, most of us prefer it, but it's not for everyone.


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## TS Neophyte (May 5, 2009)

*where is the best place to find an owner to rent from?*

I would love to find a forum where I can deal directly with the owners and not have some booking company snatch up all kinds of fees?


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## bnoble (May 5, 2009)

Well, there's always TUG...


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## Timeshare Von (May 5, 2009)

TS Neophyte said:


> I would love to find a forum where I can deal directly with the owners and not have some booking company snatch up all kinds of fees?



Personal opinion is that the best place is here on TUG!


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## dcdowden (May 5, 2009)

Check out TUG classified ads as well as redweek.com, myresortnetwork.com, and even Craigs List classified ads.  Often owners use these sites when they are looking to rent.  Sometimes people list on ebay as well.
Good Luck,
Doug


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## TS Neophyte (May 5, 2009)

*Look what a neophyte I am!*

I didn't even know there was a TUG classified section, I will be sure to check it out. Anyway I think that it will be better for me to rent a few times to get the feel for renting a timeshare, to see how much we end up using the timeshare amenities such as the kitchen and living areas. So thanks again to all of you!


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## Bob2061 (Jun 25, 2011)

ttt said:


> That's alot of maint. fees for 154K points. The purchase price is great, but your yearly costs are excessive. I don't see any problems buying resale, but I would look for a less costly alternative to this contract.



I pay $728 mf yearly for only 77k in points.  They really stuck it to me.


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## am1 (Jun 26, 2011)

eBay.com is where the most reservations are.  The best advice is to rent from a trusted renters.  Not some fly by night operation or person.


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