# Will Legal Action Help Me Get Rid of my TS?



## prosam

Hi Everyone, 
First time here. Hope I am posting this in the right forum.

Not sure about anyone else but I feel like I was duped into getting my timeshare at Westgate Lakes in Orlando. They set us up but I won't go into detail. I just want to get rid of it. I feel this crazy burden on my shoulders and it's really depressing me.

A friend of mine who used to be a paralegal seems to think I can threaten legal action and they will buy it back. Give me my money back. 

Is this true? Has anyone ever done this?

If not true what is the best way to get my money back? I really do feel like I was duped. Do I have any legal recourse or do I just get rid of it on Ebay/Craigslist or transfer it to another TUG user?

Just trying to figure out my options. I would love to get my money back but if I can't just getting rid of the monthly payment and yearly maintenance fees would be great.

Any help would be greatly appreciated. 

Thank you in advance.


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## DeniseM

Since you signed a contract when you bought your timeshare, and Westgate has a lot of smart lawyers to make it very difficult to get out of your contract, it is very unlikely that a lawsuit, or the threat of one will have any impact.  

When you bought, you probably were lied to, but that contract you signed has a clause in it that states that verbal promises are not binding, and only the terms stated in the contract are valid.

Unfortunately, Westgate timeshares (like most timeshares) have no resale value.

If it isn't paid off, you have 2 options:

-Offer it back to Westgate in lieu of foreclosure.

-If they don't take it back, stop making payments and let it go into foreclosure.

If it goes into foreclosure, it won't be pleasant, but eventually (may take many months) they will take it back.  In the meantime, you would  probably be harassed by debt collectors to see if they can motivate you to pay, and it may ding your credit.

But after you stop paying for several months, they will give up on you, foreclose, and your ownership will end.

If you already have bad credit, or don't care about your credit, this is a viable option.


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## prosam

Thank you for the quick reply Denise.

It is not paid off. I just got it in February. 

If I offer it back what does that entail? Do I need to pay anything?

If it goes into foreclosure will it effect me negatively? It's in Orlando and I live in Mass. I assume that it will affect my credit will it not? I have great credit BTW.


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## DeniseM

This is a different company, but here is a recent thread about what one owner went through when they decided to offer their deed back in lieu of foreclosure, it was refused, and they went into foreclosure.   

It may or may not impact your credit - there is really no way to know.  Westgate is likely to threaten you with a ding on your credit, but no way to know if that is true or not.

This is the most likely scenario in your case.  Westgate doesn't want the deed back - they want you to keep paying.

http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=231584&highlight=foreclosure


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## prosam

Again, thank you for the help. I think I'll just let it go into foreclosure. 

Now what to do with the close to $900 I owe the Westgate Mastercard. All the monthly payments where being billed there. Big mistake. I forgot about it and the 274 per month just added up quick. SMDH

I wonder if I should let that go into collections as well.


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## DeniseM

You need to cancel the credit card, or they will keep charging more payments to it.  

You will have to notify the credit card in writing that you are going into foreclosure on the timeshare, and you want to cancel the credit card.


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## prosam

I have already removed it as the form of payment. They cannot charge anything to it. It works as a separate form of payment. I can use it for anything I want not just Westgate.


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## DeniseM

I think the credit card is far more likely to ding your credit, than Westgate.  If it is feasible for you, you may want to pay off the credit card.


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## prosam

DeniseM said:


> I think the credit card is far more likely to ding your credit, than Westgate.  If it is feasible for you, you may want to pay off the credit card.


I think so too. I might just pay it off. Should take about a year if I pay 75/month

I think I can swing that.

You are awesome Denise. Thank you so much for your help and advice. Very much appreciated.


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## theo

prosam said:


> I have already removed it as the form of payment. They cannot charge anything to it. It works as a separate form of payment. I can use it for anything I want not just Westgate.



I would recommend canceling the credit card outright (ASAP after getting its' outstanding balance paid off in full). Frankly, I wouldn't put _*anything*_ past Westgate as far as your stated (but perhaps unfounded) belief that they can't or won't attempt to make future charges to it.  

P.S. There is really no "legal action" that you can take that would have any prospect of success, so don't go down that rabbit hole. You freely and voluntarily entered into a lawful contract (albeit a contract with deceitful parasites), but you can rest assured that none of their assorted oral lies or misrepresentations can be found in writing *anywhere*, so you essentially have *no* substantive basis on which to initiate or support any (expensive) "legal action". Bear in mind, Westgate has lawyers too...


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## prosam

theo said:


> I would recommend canceling the credit card outright (after getting its' outstanding balance paid off in full). Frankly, I wouldn't put _anything_ past Westgate as far as your stated belief that they can't or won't attempt to make future charges to it.
> 
> P.S. There is no "legal action" that you can possibly take that would have *any* prospect of success, so don't go down that rabbitt hole. You freely and voluntarily entered into a contract (albeit  a contract with lying parasites), but you can rest assured that none of their assorted oral lies or misrepresentationsare going to be found in writing anywhere, so you essentially have *no* substantive basis on which to initiate or support any (expensive) "legal action". Bear in mind, Westgate has lawyers too...


Thank you for the tip Theo. 7 months later I'm still beating myself up over allowing this to happen. I really went into the presentation with all the intention to say *no thank you* but that did not happen. So disappointed in myself.


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## theo

prosam said:


> Thank you for the tip Theo. 7 months later I'm still beating myself up over allowing this to happen. I really went into the presentation with all the intention to say *no thank you* but that did not happen. So disappointed in myself.



There is no percentage in beating yourself up; we *all* make mistakes. Do your best to just put it all in the rear view mirror, with a valuable lesson learned.


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## taterhed

What ever you do....

don't fall for any schemes that promise to get rid of your timeshare....and ask for money up front.  It's a scam.

Lawyers that promise the same...will likely bill you but rarely help you.


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## Passepartout

I'd also make a small unspecified wager that Wastegate has been paid in full, and your indebtedness is to a financing company, which may or may not be Wastegate.

If you choose to allow it to go to foreclosure, write to Member Services at the Corporate Offices in Ocoee Fl, and offer them the deed in lieu of foreclosure. Tell them that you are not in any financial condition to service this debt (or any other excuse you can think of- death in the family, job loss, illness, whatever) and they won't get another cent from you. It may take a while of them not seeing anything from you, but eventually they'll catch on. Foreclosure costs them in legal fees, and during the run-up they are making nothing and can't re-sell your week. If you make it attractive for them to take a quit-claim from you, they might just go for it without dinging your credit.

Best wishes, and keep us informed. We always like to hear success stories, and it must happen often enough that darn few come back to teell us.

Jim


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## gmarine

BEFORE you let it go into foreclosure contact WG and do what Jim says in the above post. They may offer you a way out, of course with a cost to you. 

If you default on the loan payments it will almost certainly negatively affect your credit. Defaulting on maintenance fee payments often will not affect your credit because HOAs dont always report it  but you can be pretty sure the finance company will report the non payment of the loan to the credit bureaus. 

Good luck, hope you can work something out with WG.


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## Pmuppet

I think they did a documentary on west gate timeshares so u might want to watch it on Netflix to get an idea of the kind of scum u r dealing with.

As Dave Ramsey would say, this is stupid tax and you get the the pleasure of paying it.  Don't worry, everyone pays it the only goal is to minimize your annual stupid tax bill...lol

You are getting good advice as far as I can tell.  I would just assume everything you have spent so far as gone and don't spend good money chasing bad money.  Because Westgate will fight you till you are bankrupt to win because their entire business model is based on these types of transactions.

Your best case is make it clear they aren't getting any more money and you are willing to work with them to make this go away positively.  That is, they can spend $1000-$2000 to take the deed back from you via foreclosure, dinging your credit, harassing you within the bounds of the law.

Or, you will give them $1000-$2000 to resolve this issue and they don't sing your credit, complete a deed in lieu of foreclosure, and all future liability is forgiven (in writing) and no harassing calls.

It will take you a long time to get to that as they will try to pressure you to keep the agreed upon deal cause that is the most lucrative scenario for them.  

But if u can convince them they have only those two options (and we are talking months here), they will likely settle. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## theo

Pmuppet said:


> I think they did a documentary on west gate timeshares so u might want to watch it on Netflix to get an idea of the kind of scum u r dealing with. <snip>



The documentary to which you refer (entitled *Queen of Versailles*) doesn't really include much reference to (or much if any useful information about) Westgate. 
It is really more about the life of opulence and excess led by  Westgate CEO David Siegel and his wife and offspring.

That observation aside, it is nonetheless a good idea to stay far, far away from the slimy likes of Westgate and, if already in their clutches, to do anything and everything possible to permanently escape that unfortunate stranglehold.


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## Ty1on

theo said:


> The documentary to which you refer (entitled *Queen of Versaiiles*) doesn't really include much reference to (or much if any useful information about) Westgate. It is really more about the life of opulence and excess led by  Westgate CEO David Siegel and his wife and offspring.



While this is largely true, my favorite part was when Siegel's son instructed salesmen to lie to their victims and tell them the salemen are owners.  I bet PR cringed on that one.  Or didn't care.


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## prosam

Thanks for all the help guys. You are amazing. 

Are there templates available for this "deed in lieu of foreclosure"? 

I will definitely check out that documentary. I can't believe I fell for it. I thought I was smarter than that. Or is it these guys are so good they can fool anybody?


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## prosam

Passepartout said:


> If you choose to allow it to go to foreclosure, write to Member Services at the Corporate Offices in Ocoee Fl, and offer them the deed in lieu of foreclosure.



Jim,
their site is saying their address is:

Central Florida Investments, Inc.
Corporate Headquarters
5601 Windhover Dr.
Orlando, Florida 32819


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## theo

prosam said:


> Jim,
> their site is saying their address is:
> 
> Central Florida Investments, Inc.
> Corporate Headquarters
> 5601 Windhover Dr.
> Orlando, Florida 32819



*If* you were within the contract rescission time period (which you clearly are not), the address to which you would mail that rescission would in fact be:

Westgate Resorts
2801 Winter Garden Road
 Ocoee, FL. 34761

There is  no harm in sending your written "deedback" request to both addresses, but in any case do *not* make *any* worthless, unproductive phone calls to Wastegate, only to receive canned and rehearsed responses from unauthorized low level minions who actually have *no* involvement or authority in any "deedback" decision anyhow.

Sales weasels are *very* proficient and *very* experienced in sales psychology, overcoming objections, establishing "rapport", overstating the product benefits --- and outright lying, whenever necessary, in order to "seal the deal". You were essentially a well intentioned but perhaps somewhat naive baitfish voluntarily jumping into a tank of *very* hungry sharks, regardless of your intellect or original intentions. Those highly motivated parasites sell for a living --- if they don't sell, they don't eat.


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## prosam

theo said:


> *If* you were within the rescission time period (which you clearly are not), the address to which you would mail that rescission would in fact be:
> 
> Westgate Resorts
> 2801 Winter Garden Road
> Ocoee, FL. 34761
> 
> Of course, there is certainly no harm in sending your "deedback" request to both addresses, but in any case do *not* make any phone calls only to receive canned responses from unauthorized low level minions.
> 
> Sales weasels are *very* proficient and *very* experienced in sales psychology, overcoming any objections, overstating the product benefits --- and outright lying, whenever necessary, in order to "seal the deal". You were essentially a well intentioned but somewhat naive baitfish voluntarily jumping into a tank of *very* hungry sharks, regardless of your intellect or original intentions. Remember, those parasites sell for a living --- if they don't sell, they don't eat.



Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

Now, is there certain words I should say? Is there a template about how to ask for the deedback?

I have no idea


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## prosam

If I site financial hardship, or death in family, or illness, as the reason for the request will they ask for proof of these things?


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## theo

prosam said:


> Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
> 
> Now, is there certain words I should say? Is there a template about how to ask for the deedback?
> 
> I have no idea



There is no "template", but suggested concepts and positions that you presumably seek to convey are:

1. Your purchase was a hasty decision which you now regret and view as a mistake. You deeply regret not having rescinded while you were still within the time period provided by state law to do so.

2. You are *not *going to pay *any* more money (if that is, in fact, your position) to perpetuate your mistake, so Westgate  acceptance of "deedback" will make foreclosure (which costs Westgate time, effort and money) unnecessary.

That's about it. They might very well still decline, but you cannot / will not know unless you ask (in writing, clearly identifying your account, purchase date and location). 

Good luck; you will need plenty in dealing with these slimy parasites.

P.S. I do not suggest or recommend fabricating any "heartstring" stories or tall tales; Westgate doesn't (and won't) care anyhow. Tell the truth and make it very clear that you believe that you made a serious mistake and are *not* going to pay another dime (if that is indeed your intent and position at this point) to perpetuate that unfortunate mistake. 

Understand very clearly that there may be negative credit report consequences for defaulting if they decline to accept "deedback". It's entirely *your* personal decision to make whether those potential negative consequences outweigh the benefit of not spending *any* more money on (from a resale view) a nearly worthless "product".


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## prosam

theo said:


> You deeply regret not having rescinded while still within the time period provided by state law to do so.


I had no idea this was a thing. If I had I would have done so. I regretted the decision immediately upon returning home.


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## theo

prosam said:


> I had no idea this was a thing. If I had I would have done so. I regretted the decision immediately upon returning home.



By law, you *must* have been provided with formal notice of your rescission (cancellation) rights under applicable state law right at the time and place of your contract execution, but unfortunately that ship already sailed long ago.

Wastegate is actually notorious for "providing" the required rescission notice in "creative" ways that are very difficult to find --- placed within a "hidden" velcro pocket (an actual photo of which you can easily find right here on TUG), or buried somewhere within a provided CD. But again, for you that rescission  ship has sailed. 
You now need to focus on extricating yourself from a situation whose "easy exit door" closed behind you about 8 months ago now.


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## prosam

theo said:


> By law, you *must* have been provided with formal notice of your rescission rights under applicable state law right at the time and place of contract execution, but unfortunately that ship sailed long ago.
> 
> Wastegate is actually notorious for "providing" the rescission notice in ways that are very difficult to find --- placed in a "hidden" velcro pocket (a phto of which you can find here on TUG), buried within the contents of a provided CD, etc. But again, for you that ship has sailed. You now need to focus on extracting yourself from a situation whose exit door otherwise closed about 8 months ago.


Slimeballs  Scumbuckets UGH!


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## prosam

theo said:


> P.S. I do not suggest or recommend fabricating any stories or tall tales; they don't and won't care anyhow. Just make it very clear that you believe that you made a serious mistake and are *not* going to pay another dime (if that is indeed your intent and position at this point) to perpetuate that unfortunate mistake.
> 
> Understand very clearly that there may be negative credit report consequences for defaulting if they decline to accept "deedback". It's entirely *your* personal decision to make whether those potential negative consequences outweigh the benefit of not spending *any* more money on (from a resale perspective) a nearly worthless "product".


Exactly what I'm doing. 

If they don't accept the request I am ready and willing to take on the foreclosure. My credit is excellent. I have a house. I have two cars. I have credit cards. I don't see myself asking for more credit or buying any more cars anytime soon so I'm ready.

*I am not sending them one more of my hard earned pennies.*

Again, thank you for the advice. You have been awesome. You have no idea.


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## prosam

How does this sound?



> Samuel Mateo, Jr.
> Street
> City, STATE ZIP
> (413) 555-5555
> 
> Westgate Resorts
> 2801 Old Winter Garden Rd
> Ocoee, FL 34761
> 
> September 22, 2016
> RE: deed in lieu of foreclosure on {address}
> 
> To Whom It May Concern:
> 
> I am writing to begin the process of offering the deed to my timeshare, in lieu of foreclosure.
> 
> I did not make this month’s payment and intend on not making one more single payment. My wife and I believe we have made a very hasty decision based on pressure and lies told to us by your salesman.
> 
> We now regret and view this purchase as a huge mistake. It has destabilized our finances and we find ourselves struggling to make ends meet and worst of all feeding our children.
> 
> We deeply regret not having rescinded while we were still within the time period provided by state law to do so. We had no idea this was even an option as the provided notice was very well hidden in the paper work given to us.
> 
> We are not going to pay any more money to perpetuate our mistake. Rather than deal with the foreclosure process, I would like to give you the deed to my timeshare, in exchange for forgiveness on the loan.
> 
> Please contact me as soon as possible so that we may begin this process.
> 
> Sincerely,
> 
> Samuel Mateo, Jr.


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## prosam

Showed the letter to my boss and he seems to think that if I mention the word mistake and that I've struggled to make payments they will just throw this letter in the garbage. Those words will mean that I am able to pay and don't want to and that the mistake is not theirs and I should continue to pay.

He wants me to be more straight forward. Just say I am unable to make any more payments and instead of going into foreclosure proceedings and costing them more money they take the deed back and keep the money I've paid so far.

What he says makes sense to me.


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## Passepartout

I don't have a problem with the letter. As long as you are willing to accept that defaulting may influence your credit (or may not) be strong and take the consequences. Remember, unsatisfactory reports can be answered on credit reports. Most credit issuers are going to give you some slack when they see that the credit ding is for a timeshare default and foreclosure. Keep (a copy of) the letter that shows that you offered the interval back as soon as you recognized that it was dragging your finances down a black hole, you proactively offered it back to the developer and essentially abandoned your deposit to the deceitful seller.

Much good luck to you.

Jim


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## prosam

Updated letter, not sure if I should add the part at in the second to last paragraph



> To Whom It May Concern:
> 
> I am writing to begin the process of offering the deed to my timeshare, in lieu of foreclosure.
> 
> I did not make this month’s payment and am financially unable to make additional payments. My wife and I believe we have made a very hasty decision based on pressure and lies told to us by your salesman.
> 
> This timeshare payment has destabilized our finances and we find ourselves having to pay this loan instead of feeding our children. This we will tolerate no longer.
> 
> We deeply regret not having rescinded while we were still within the time period provided by state law. We had no idea this was even an option as the provided notice was very well hidden in the paper work given to us.
> 
> We are not going to pay any more money. Rather than deal with the foreclosure process, I would like to give you the deed to my timeshare, in exchange for forgiveness on the loan. A deed in lieu of foreclosure is clearly the best option for all involved as the bank gets the same result without cost and delay.
> 
> Please contact me as soon as possible so that we may begin this process.


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## taterhed

I've been biting my tongue, but can hold it no more.....

A few comments on reading the OP's posts:

You regret your purchase, may not be able to comfortably pay for it and wish to   unilaterally revoke your contract; ok, I get it.  That's your right, your decision and your consequences.

You've hinted that this is a choice--not a necessity--and offered to submit "financial hardship, or death in family, or illness..."  unless they might request "proof" of said condition.  Sorry, but this sounds like outright deceit to me.  I guess you think that you can lie or cheat with a clean conscience because you don't like their methods? Sorry, but that's not the way it works. Don't sink to that level.

You called the salesmen "slimeballs and scumbuckets."  Well, you might be right, but really, they are just salesmen/women working hard to earn a buck.  They are working for a company that fosters and promotes the 'anything for a sale' attitude.  Ever bought a used car from a 'cheapo lot?'  You'll find much the same thing.  I blame the company personally.  But, nobody tortured, drugged or forced you to sign.  I'm sorry this happened to you, but _assess the blame where it belongs._ 

Finally, some comments for your letter:

These people who will read your letter see a lot of such correspondence I suspect.  My suggestions parallel Theo's; keep it short, keep it simple, be direct.    1) I made a bad financial decision under pressure--a mistake.  2) I failed to terminate this agreement during rescission for lack of understanding--another mistake.  3) I will not pay any more money and continue to perpetuate this mistake.  4)  Rather than incur further expenses in foreclosure etc...  I offer to 'deedback' the property etc...  I am fully prepared to see this process through....etc.

My point:  Mistake, pressure, no money, deedback.  Words like 'regret', 'lies', 'struggle', 'would like to' are wishy-washy.   Personally, I don't think you'll have much success, but it's worth a shot.  Maybe they'll cut you a deal to reduce your outlay and their losses.

Good luck.  

Sorry if you find my words hurtful or offensive, but the truth hurts.


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## prosam

taterhed said:


> Sorry if you find my words hurtful or offensive, but the truth hurts.


 They do not hurt at all as I am none of these things. I was trying to figure out the best way to go about this. I was just curious. No need to bite your tongue around me. 

Truth of the matter is it is a financial hardship. I am truly having trouble putting food on the table because of having to pay for this timeshare. Ever since we got into it I've not had one month where I had to eat at family members house or go without food and feed my kids instead of myself or even borrow money just to be able to eat. I had not had this problem prior.

We were seduced by the thought that this timeshare would pay for it itself by using their rental system. The saleman promised to help me setup VRBO and Homeaway listings. He promised to call me. 7 months later I have not had one call.

I understand they are just doing their job. That doesn't mean I can't call them what they are. They are using shady practices to make the sale no matter what and yes I know that comes from the top.

I am fully aware I signed the contract and nobody put a gun to my head but they might as well have with the tactics used and empty promises.

Thanks for the tips for the letter. See the revised version above. I might revise it again to make it even shorter and sweeter as you mentioned. For example I doubt adding the part about the salesman and hidden notice is going to make a difference at all.


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## Pmuppet

You sound like you have a good strategy for dealing with them.  Just be warned, this won't happen quickly, as Westgate knows, a large percentage of folks will cave if they pressure them (with harassing calls, credit report dings, etc).  So, they won't be quick to accept a settlement.

Be strong once you have committed to your resolution.  You might consider consulting an attorney as the hour consultation might be worth $300-$400 for you (not that you are going to get your money back but they can advise you the laws in the state of timeshare what your risks/likely outcomes are so you can plan accordingly.)

Plus, it is much more effective to say, I have consulted an attorney, they advised me not to give another penny to you guys.  I am happy to give you the deed back but that is all you are getting from me.

Lastly, I would block their calls for at least 90 days.  This will show them you are serious.  You don't want to talk to the bottom feeders who call you to collect.  Those are the marines that can't help you get resolution.  You need to go up a level and in order to negotiate a resolution, you need the generals to reach out to you.


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## prosam

Thanks for the advice @pmuppet. Will definitely look into these options.



Pmuppet said:


> You sound like you have a good strategy for dealing with them.  Just be warned, this won't happen quickly, as Westgate knows, a large percentage of folks will cave if they pressure them (with harassing calls, credit report dings, etc).  So, they won't be quick to accept a settlement.
> 
> Be strong once you have committed to your resolution.  You might consider consulting an attorney as the hour consultation might be worth $300-$400 for you (not that you are going to get your money back but they can advise you the laws in the state of timeshare what your risks/likely outcomes are so you can plan accordingly.)
> 
> Plus, it is much more effective to say, I have consulted an attorney, they advised me not to give another penny to you guys.  I am happy to give you the deed back but that is all you are getting from me.
> 
> Lastly, I would block their calls for at least 90 days.  This will show them you are serious.  You don't want to talk to the bottom feeders who call you to collect.  Those are the marines that can't help you get resolution.  You need to go up a level and in order to negotiate a resolution, you need the generals to reach out to you.


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## gmarine

Do not waste your money on an attorney. You signed a contract which WG can choose to enforce or they can choose to accept the deed back. 
Also, do not stop taking the phone calls. If you stop communication with WG you can be sure they will notify the credit bureaus and will not accept the deed back. Since its likely a large amount of money they may also take legal action if you just stop communicating. 

The key to getting them to accept the deed back is to communicate with them and explain that you cannot pay the debt.   If they agree to accept they will likely require a fee of $800 - $1000 or so to process the deed in lieu. 

Good luck, hope you get out of this without too much trouble.


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## prosam

gmarine said:


> Do not waste your money on an attorney. You signed a contract which WG can choose to enforce or they can choose to accept the deed back.
> Also, do not stop taking the phone calls. This is bad advice. If you stop communication with WG you can be sure they will notify the credit bureaus and will not accept the deed back. Since its likely a large amount of money they may also take legal action if you just stop communicating.
> 
> The key to getting them to accept the deed back is to communicate with them and explain that you cannot pay the debt.   If they agree to accept they will likely require a fee of $800 - $1000 or so to process the deed in lieu.
> 
> Good luck, hope you get out of this without too much trouble.



Makes a lot of sense. Thank you.


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## prosam

Ok here is the final draft going out today via certified mail. I removed any negative words towards Westgate and their salesman. I want to keep it friendly, all those negative things will not help my cause.



> To Whom It May Concern:
> 
> I am writing to begin the process of offering the deed to my timeshare, in lieu of foreclosure.
> 
> I did not make this month’s payment and am financially unable to make additional payments. My wife and I believe we have made a very hasty decision when we purchased this timeshare.
> 
> This timeshare payment has destabilized our finances and we find ourselves having to pay this loan instead of feeding our children. This we will tolerate no longer.
> 
> We deeply regret not having rescinded while we were still within the time period provided by state law to do so. We had no idea this was even an option as the provided notice was not easily visible in the paper work given to us.
> 
> We are unable to pay any more money. Rather than deal with the foreclosure process, I would like to give you the deed to my timeshare, in exchange for forgiveness on the loan. A deed in lieu of foreclosure is clearly the best option for all involved as the bank gets the same result without cost and delay.
> 
> Please contact me as soon as possible so that we may begin this process.



Again, a HUGE thank you to everyone who has helped me through this. You have no idea how helpful you have truly been.

I will definitely comeback and give you guys updates on the process.

--Sammy

PS
I just got my first courtesy email from Westgate about missing this months payment. It was cordial and friendly, for now.


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## rrsafety

taterhed said:


> I've been biting my tongue, but can hold it no
> You called the salesmen "slimeballs and scumbuckets."  Well, you might be right, but really, they are just salesmen/women working hard to earn a buck.  They are working for a company that fosters and promotes the 'anything for a sale' attitude.  Ever bought a used car from a 'cheapo lot?'  You'll find much the same thing.  I blame the company personally.  But, nobody tortured, drugged or forced you to sign.  I'm sorry this happened to you, but _assess the blame where it belongs._




The blame is appropriately place by the OP on the scumballs, liars and thieves that sell these timeshares. The OP made a mistake which he is must now accept the consequences. The sales people, on the other hand, purposely set out on a daily basis to deceive decent, hard working people. They are fully to blame for the sins they commit every day. How they can live with themselves is beyond me.


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## taterhed

rrsafety said:


> The blame is appropriately place by the OP on the scumballs, liars and thieves that sell these timeshares. The OP made a mistake which he is must now accept the consequences. The sales people, on the other hand, purposely set out on a daily basis to deceive decent, hard working people. They are fully to blame for the sins they commit every day. How they can live with themselves is beyond me.



I'm sorry, but you are wrong.

 You can not lump all salemen/women into your little hate-pot.  If you're just referring to this particular company, then I'm sure you have a higher chance of being right than with other companies.  If you're referring to the industry in general, then you're just axe grinding.

 The people you're talking about set out everyday to sell timeshares.  Some are honest, some are not.  Some lie more than others.  Every 'deception or omission' could be construed as a lie, therefore ALL salespersons--regardless of what or how they sell--are potentially liars. As to _'purposely...daily basis...deceive decent, hard working people...sins they commit...',_ perhaps you should direct your vitriol at some other more deserving group.   Labeling people you've never met based on preconceived ideas is called prejudice. Look it up; that might be a sin too.  "Sins they commit?"  Are we in church? Is our next discussion about usury? 

 You're right:  the OP must accept the consequences of the mistake.  Sounds like they are moving in that direction.  

 But, you're also wrong: the temptation came from the serpent, but the blame lies firmly with Eve ( or Sam in this case?).

 It's truly sad that people attempt to take advantage of others for their own benefit.  The timeshare industry could certain stand some policing to weed-out the bad apples and those 'rotten to the core.'

 All IMHO.


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## Ty1on

prosam said:


> Ok here is the final draft going out today via certified mail. I removed any negative words towards Westgate and their salesman. I want to keep it friendly, all those negative things will not help my cause.
> 
> 
> 
> Again, a HUGE thank you to everyone who has helped me through this. You have no idea how helpful you have truly been.
> 
> I will definitely comeback and give you guys updates on the process.
> 
> --Sammy
> 
> PS
> I just got my first courtesy email from Westgate about missing this months payment. It was cordial and friendly, for now.



Wastegate....

The will absolutely contact you.

With threats to make your payments.  I sincerely wish you luck.


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## prosam

Ty1on said:


> Wastegate....
> 
> The will absolutely contact you.
> 
> With threats to make your payments.  I sincerely wish you luck.


Yup. Got my first call yesterday. Very nice and friendly at first, even offering a payment plan. As soon as I mentioned the deedback request her tone changed, A LOT. She became hostile and pushy. I just held my ground. She obviously went through the whole shpeal about affecting my credit and foreclosure yadda yadda yadda. I said I understood. She said their would be more calls. I said I understood and would accept the call and kindly explain the same thing to them as I did her.


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## taterhed

prosam said:


> Yup. Got my first call yesterday. Very nice and friendly at first, even offering a payment plan. As soon as I mentioned the deedback request her tone changed, A LOT. She became hostile and pushy. I just held my ground. She obviously went through the whole shpeal about affecting my credit and foreclosure yadda yadda yadda. I said I understood. She said their would be more calls. I said I understood and would accept the call and kindly explain the same thing to them as I did her.



There is no way to tell where this will go or end, but remember one thing:

Don't take any of it personal or let emotion creep into the equation--hard as that might be. Putting emotion on the table or giving the person on the other end of the phone/letter a personality will only make the situation worse and more stressful. Pretend everything is a robo-call or robo-letter.


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## DeniseM

At this point, I would not pick up the phone - let it go to voice mail.

Something to keep in mind:  It is less expensive for Westgate to accept a deed back, than to go into foreclosure.

But they would much rather have you as a paying customer, because they don't want the timeshare back either!   

So they are going to put a lot of pressure on you to try to get you to pay up, before they will consider a deed back or foreclosure - it will probably take months.


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## Miss Marty

*prosam*

Post Deleted
You got email


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## Miss Marty

*prosam*

Post Deleted
You got email


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## Miss Marty

*Buying a Timeshare*



prosam said:


> It is not paid off. I just got it in February.



Q:
What enticed you to go on the timeshare tour in the first place?  What did you and your wife like about the idea of owning a timeshare in Orlando?  Did you accept the first offer or did you wait for the salesperson to negotiate a second or third offer? Did you get a brand new unit in a new building or something that was previously owned. Is it deeded every year usage of every other year?  What size unit? How much are the annual maint. fees? Why did you regret your purchase after you first returned home?


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## Miss Marty

*Timeshare: Orange County Deeds*

_
Do you know that you can view Orange County 
Florida deeds/mortgages online @_

http://or.occompt.com/recorder/eagleweb/docSearch.jsp


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## Miss Marty

*Westgate Lakes Resort Map pdf*

Westgate Lakes 
10000 Turkey Lake Rd
Orlando, Florida 32819

https://westgateresorts.com/resources/resort-map/resort-map-lakes.pdf


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## DeniseM

Miss Marty said:


> Q:
> What enticed you to go on the timeshare tour in the first place?  What did you and your wife like about the idea of owning a timeshare in Orlando?  Did you accept the first offer or did you wait for the salesperson to negotiate a second or third offer? Did you get a brand new unit in a new building or something that was previously owned. Is it deeded every year usage of every other year?  What size unit? How much are the annual maint. fees? Why did you regret your purchase after you first returned home?



Miss Marty - The OP doesn't want to keep their timeshare, and making the payments is a financial hardship for them.  They have already started the process to deed it back or let it go into foreclosure.  Please see the other posts in this thread for all the details.


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## Miss Marty

*prosam*

Post Deleted
You got email


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## Miss Marty

*Yes, I read all the posts in this thread!*

I was asking _prosam_ for more information 
regarding his timeshare tour and purchase.

When you swipe a credit card or take out a loan to make a t/s purchase, you probably don’t think of it as a test of your integrity or reliability. You’re more interested in how you’ll feel vacationing in your Fl timeshare.

Creditors don’t care about your personal happiness/hardships or quality of life. They just want to recover the money they lent you with interest.

People have to decide what they are willing to sacrifice.


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## DeniseM

Miss Marty - I know you are trying to help, but please be cautious about recommending a service that you are not personally familiar with.  

The OP has already send a letter offering the deed in lieu of foreclosure, and the ball is now in Westgate's court.  

Since the OP is already having financial problems, I'm not sure that hiring an attorney is feasible, or necessary at this point in time.


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## prosam

Just got a call from what looks to be a shady company, your timeshare genie. How did they get my information? They promised to be able to rent my timeshare or outright sell it.

While I was on the call I googled them and found a ton of complaints and I told her about it and told them to take me off their list. She immediately hung up.

But their not even trying. Their website is full of broken images and a mess. You would think scammers would want to at least look professional.


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## DeniseM

prosam said:


> Just got a call from what looks to be a shady company, your timeshare genie. How did they get my information? They promised to be able to rent my timeshare or outright sell it.
> 
> While I was on the call I googled them and found a ton of complaints and I told her about it and told them to take me off their list. She immediately hung up.
> 
> But their not even trying. Their website is full of broken images and a mess. You would think scammers would want to at least look professional.



We ALL get calls like that - whether or not we have a timeshare for sell/to get rid of.  Some people think that timeshare employees steal and sell owner info.  Frankly, someone at Westgate may have sold your info to them after they received your deed back request.

The scammers put little effort into their presentation, because as soon as they get busted under one name, they are going to close up shop and re-open under another name.  Also, many of them are actually located outside the US and English is not their first language.

At this point in time, and with the strain on your finances, I don't think that it is in your best interest to pay money to anyone, to "get you out of your timeshare." 

-If Westgate decides to accept your deed back - Westgate will process it - not a "rescue company" - no matter what they may tell you.

-If Westgate decides to foreclose on you - what is a "rescue company" going to do, besides take more money from you?

Either way - Westgate will handle the transaction, and you just have to stand tough.

*Please keep us up to date on the process - it will help so many people!*

BEST OF LUCK!


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## prosam

DeniseM said:


> We ALL get calls like that - whether or not we have a timeshare for sell/to get rid of.  Some people think that timeshare employees steal and sell owner info.
> 
> They put little effort into their presentation, because as soon as they get busted under one name, they are going to close up shop and re-open under another name.  Also, many of them are actually located outside the US and English is not their first language.
> 
> At this point in time, and with the strain on your finances, I don't think that it is in your best interest to pay money to anyone, to "get you out of your timeshare."
> 
> -If Westgate decides to accept your deed back - Westgate will process it - not a "rescue company" - no matter what they may tell you.
> 
> -If Westgate decides to foreclose on you - what is a "rescue company" going to do, besides take more money from you?
> 
> Either way - Westgate will handle the transaction, and you just have to stand tough.
> 
> *Please keep us up to date on the process - it will help so many people!*
> 
> BEST OF LUCK!


Gotcha. Will do.


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## prosam

Westgate just called again, also got an email from them earlier. Same girl. She was nicer this time. She was told to let me know that my deed back request was not accepted. I told her ok, and that I'm willing to go into foreclosure, if that is the case. She again tried to convince me not to do it because my credit would be affected. I said I'm ok with that because I cannot afford it. 

I expressed my dissatisfaction with the salesman's lies and she promptly quoted what I was already told by you guys, that the contract does not cover anything said by the salesman. That it was my duty to read it and be informed as to what I was signing. I told her I understood and do take the blame for my negligence. 

I guess I should expect a phone call everytime I get an email. 2 emails, 2 calls on the same day in subsequent weeks.


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## DeniseM

Now that the parameters are clear, I would not accept any more of their calls - let them leave you a message if they have anything new to say.


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## prosam

DeniseM said:


> Now that the parameters are clear, I would not accept any more of their calls - let them leave you a message if they have anything new to say.


Good idea. *proceedstosavephonenumbersoastoknowwhoiscallingandnotanswer *manthatwaslong lol


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## gmarine

Since WG has refused the deed back request there is a way to stop the phone calls from them.  Send WG a certified letter as detailed in the link below. 

https://www.consumer.ftc.gov/articles/0149-debt-collection


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## Ty1on

Their target victims are older people that don't typically look things up on the internet.


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## theo

gmarine said:


> Since WG has refused the deed back request there is a way to stop the phone calls from them.  Send WG a certified letter as detailed in the link below.
> 
> https://www.consumer.ftc.gov/articles/0149-debt-collection



With all due respect, that's probably a waste of time and effort. Since the OP initiated (...and sadly, will continue to "enjoy") a "business relationship" with Westgate, I don't believe that WG is obligated to honor a FTC "do not call" request, debt collection efforts aside and notwithstanding.

I'd be delighted to be mistaken and would gladly stand to be corrected, but that's *my* understanding of FTC "opt out" eligibility.


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## Ty1on

Do not Call under FDCPA is different than your standard DNC list.  If they receive a DNC letter, they are prohibited by law from calling you.  If you are in your workplace, you simply have to tell them it is a work phone and no letter is required.  They can mail collection demands and any other necessary correspondence.

Collectors are fined per call for phoning people who are, or should be by notification, on their do not call list, and they take it very seriously.  An analogy would be the fact that Wastegate doesn't pull shenanegans on rescission letters (once the victim has found the form and sent it within the rescission period).


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## gmarine

theo said:


> With all due respect, that's probably a waste of time and effort. Since the OP initiated (...and sadly, will continue to "enjoy") a "business relationship" with Westgate, I don't believe that WG is obligated to honor a FTC "do not call" request, debt collection efforts aside and notwithstanding.
> 
> I'd be delighted to be mistaken and would gladly stand to be corrected, but that's *my* understanding of FTC "opt out" eligibility.




You will be delighted to know that you are mistaken.    It is not an FTC do not call request.  It is the Fair Debt Collection Practices Act and WG does follow the law on this one.


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## prosam

gmarine said:


> Since WG has refused the deed back request there is a way to stop the phone calls from them.  Send WG a certified letter as detailed in the link below.
> 
> https://www.consumer.ftc.gov/articles/0149-debt-collection



Thank you. Will do.


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## prosam

So I just got this in the mail. Should I be concerned they are sending me to a collection agency? Will that change the way this shows up on my credit report? I don't intend on paying it regardless just wondering if this changes anything


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## DeniseM

By law, the recession info. is supposed to be in your purchase packet, but it may be in fine print, or even nearly hidden.


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## prosam

DeniseM said:


> By law, the recession info...


I'm sorry I don't know what this is.


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## DeniseM

Rescinding = the legal right to cancel your timeshare purchase within a certain timeframe as prescribed by law.  For all the details, see the other posts in this thread.


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## prosam

DeniseM said:


> Rescinding = the legal right to cancel your timeshare purchase within a certain timeframe as prescribed by law.  For all the details, see the other posts in this thread.


Oh, yes I remember that but can you explain what that has to do with the letter they sent? I was mainly asking about being handed over to a collection agency.


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## DeniseM

I'm sorry - I responded to one of your earlier posts.


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## bnoble

prosam said:


> So I just got this in the mail. Should I be concerned they are sending me to a collection agency? Will that change the way this shows up on my credit report? I don't intend on paying it regardless just wondering if this changes anything


Well, seeing as how the letter says "We may send you to a collection agency," then yes, I think you could be concerned about that. I can't say how it will impact your credit report, but I'm guessing it's a bigger ding than just a late or missed payment.


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## prosam

bnoble said:


> Well, seeing as how the letter says "We may send you to a collection agency," then yes, I think you could be concerned about that. I can't say how it will impact your credit report, but I'm guessing it's a bigger ding than just a late or missed payment.


That's exactly why I am asking because I got that "ding" comment a few times in this thread and am wondering if this is now going to be MORE than a ding seeing as they are sending me to collections. The foreclosure will happen regardless but will the collection agency add more of a hit to the credit report? I'm going to call them and see what this means.


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## prosam

Just got off the phone with a Rep. I was not aware of this and wanted to inform everyone here. Westgate DOES NOT have a buy back deed in lieu of foreclosure program. They don't buy deeds back ever. According to this rep, financial hardship would only allow for a 2 month break in payments that would be added back towards the end of the payments.

How accurate is this information? Unless she was lying I guess it is accurate. So if anyone else on the forums ever asks. Wastegate WILL NOT buy back your deed. It's not even an option.


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## DeniseM

Just to clarify - it would not be a "buy back," it would be a "deed back," meaning you give them the deed back for *free*, and *forfeit* anything you have already paid.

Also - another problem is that you have no idea if you talked to someone who actually has the authority to make that statement.  The entry level people have a standard response that they give everyone, and it may or may not be true.


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## prosam

DeniseM said:


> Just to clarify - it would not be a "buy back," it would be a "deed back," meaning you give them the deed back for *free*, and *forfeit* anything you have already paid.
> 
> Also - another problem is that you have no idea if you talked to someone who actually has the authority to make that statement.  The entry level people have a standard response that they give everyone, and it may or may not be true.


Very true. I might have indeed asked incorrectly. Thanks for the clarification.


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## theo

prosam said:


> Just got off the phone with a Rep. I was not aware of this and wanted to inform everyone here. Westgate DOES NOT have a buy back deed in lieu of foreclosure program. *They don't buy deeds back* ever. According to this rep, financial hardship would only allow for a 2 month break in payments that would be added back towards the end of the payments.
> 
> How accurate is this information? Unless she was lying I guess it is accurate. So if anyone else on the forums ever asks. *Wastegate WILL NOT buy back your deed. It's not even an option.*



Westgate  _*does*_ indeed accept some "*deedbacks*" ("deebacks", to be very clear here, are entirely different from "buybacks"). Very few developers (maybe Marriott and a very few others) will ever consider a "buyback". Wastegate accepts deedbacks, but *only* if the proposed "deedback" involves a "free and clear" ownership (i.e, associated loans are satisfied), with the account also fully paid up to date on maintenance fees (which yours clearly is not) and, last but not least, an additional gratuitous fee paid to Wastegate ($1,500, if I recall correctly). *None* of that really matters to you however,  since those "deedback acceptance" conditions are not relevant or applicable to *your* current situation.

It is not too unusual for delinquent timeshare accounts to be handed off to hired third party collection agencies. Such outfits collect a percentage of any payments that they can manage to wrangle, cajole or harass from a delinquent account holder. In fact, there are a few collection agencies which openly advertise their "timeshare collection specialization" services, including in the publication _Timesharing Today_.

If you intend to hold the line and pay nothing more (a personal choice certainly available to you), default and foreclosure will inevitably follow and a negative credit report "hit" is a near certainty. That being said, it is also your personal decision whether you really want to pay another penny toward something of virtually *no* value in the open resale market --- *even if* it was fully paid off and completely current right now, today. That's surely a very difficult concept to accept and swallow; it certainly seems counter-intuitive to consider paying thousands of dollars *more* for something which (even if paid off and owned free and clear and offered out in the open marketplace today) has essentially *zero* attraction and / or resale value to others.

You might want to consider a brief consultation with a local attorney you trust, just to discuss and understand the impact of looming consequences if you decide to stick to your guns and pay Wastegate not another cent. You can, for example, exercise *some* control over unwelcome collection calls.


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## bnoble

prosam said:


> Just got off the phone with a Rep. I was not aware of this and wanted to inform everyone here. Westgate DOES NOT have a buy back deed in lieu of foreclosure program. They don't buy deeds back ever. According to this rep, financial hardship would only allow for a 2 month break in payments that would be added back towards the end of the payments.
> 
> How accurate is this information? Unless she was lying I guess it is accurate. So if anyone else on the forums ever asks. Wastegate WILL NOT buy back your deed. It's not even an option.



You already know the answer *for you*.  You've sent the letter, they've told you your "offer" was not accepted. Whether that's true for others is immaterial.

Follow the instructions provided to stop the phone calls, and for the love of all that is good, stop calling them. Read everything they send you, and if they eventually send you something that requires your actions for a foreclosure, follow those instructions (checking in here first if you like.) Your credit scores will almost certainly take a hit, because you will have a (potentially sizable) loan that you committed yourself to, and that you did not pay off. How much will that cost you in the long run? Hard to say. If you are planning to finance a major purchase, apply for credit cards, etc. in the next several years, you will pay a higher interest rate on money borrowed, and may even end up being declined those loans/cards.

In the meantime, get the rest of your financial house in order. You've allowed a balance to build on the WG credit card. Do you have any other credit cards? Do you have balances on those too? If so, start doing everything you can to pay those down as fast as you can---and that means saving every dollar you can elsewhere. Go to Starbucks a few times a week for a $3 coffee? Stop doing that, and brew your own at home. Pick up a second, part-time job if you can swing it, and use every single dollar you earn in that to pay off any card balances you have.


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## DeniseM

I want to know WHERE you can get a $3 coffee at Starbucks!


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## TUGBrian

have had reports as recently as a week or so ago from members who have successfully surrendered their intervals back to westgate (it cost them a decent amount of money to do so, but it was done nonetheless).

it does however likely depend on the resort im sure, but you also likely need to get thru the bottom level operators to get a good answer.


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## bnoble

Denise: a medium drip coffee will be a bit less that that. 



TUGBrian said:


> it does however likely depend on the resort im sure, but you also likely need to get thru the bottom level operators to get a good answer.



It probably has to be owned free and clear. OP still has a (possibly sizable) loan on the purchase price.


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## prosam

Hey All, 
Its been a while since my last update (December 2016) on this and I've been meaning to comeback and do one more update. So here I am.

After this whole fiasco I did stop making payments and did opt out of the phone calls so those stopped. The letters also seemed to stop which is odd. I still get their promotional letters with their offers which is also odd being that I already own a timeshare, technically. So it seems I am in the clear. I don't have to worry about passing on this burden to my kids.

There was a silver lining to all this though. I dove head first into fixing my finances due to this mess. I had heard of Dave Ramsey, even had a friend let me borrow his financial peace university kit, but never really put much thought into it. I figured I was doing OK living paycheck to paycheck. Oh boy! This whole TM thing really opened my eyes to how wrong I was.

So I bought in hook, line and sinker to DR's teaching and in a year I have paid off 8 credit cards and half of a personal loan. I am on track to be debt free in less than 2 years. Due to this my credit score went from the 700s (not bad) to almost perfect at 825. The foreclosure of the TM has not affected me one bit, not even a ding, as someone had mentioned earlier in this thread.

I want to thank everyone who helped me out during this craziness, I really do appreciate it. Your advice really did calm down my nerves and anxiety and helped me see the light at the end of the tunnel. Thank you.


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## Passepartout

prosam, that's all really good news. See, it seems that every dark cloud has a silver lining. Glad you found it.


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## prosam

Passepartout said:


> prosam, that's all really good news. See, it seems that every dark cloud has a silver lining. Glad you found it.


Thanks @Passepartout indeed they do. Its just a little hard to see that lining when you all up in the darkness. LOL Gotta step out and find it.


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## VacationForever

@prosam  Thanks for the update.  We are glad it all worked out.


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## LannyPC

prosam said:


> The foreclosure of the TM has not affected me one bit, not even a ding, as someone had mentioned earlier in this thread.



I'm glad to hear this as first-hand experience.  Many here on TUG have been calling for ones like you with such first-hand experience as to what can/would happen if you stopped paying and let it go into foreclosure.

Of course, this does not mean that every situation like yours will turn out the way it did.  There might be some delinquent owners out there who have had their credit affected but just not reported it here on TUG.


----------

