# It's Coming!  More info on possible new program



## Latravel (Oct 13, 2009)

It looks like the new program is more than a rumor.  I just completed a survey sent out by Marriott asking for feedback on how to market "a new product offering"...

_Dear Valued Marriott Vacation Club Owner,

Because we highly value your input as a Marriot Vacation Club Owner, we have contracted with an approved third party research firm BrainJuicer®, to create an opportunity for you to provide your thoughts and insights around a product enhancement to our timeshare program._


The survey reminded us of the current Marriott Vacation Club program and stated (directly from the survey) :

_A new product offering may expand these options and include:

• Owners may have the ability to book adventure travel packages.
• Owners may break vacations at Marriott vacation club resorts into increments of less than 1 (2-3 days for example) week and may arrive on any day of the week
• Owners may have some ability to bank and borrow vacation time from year to year – potentially crediting some portions of unused vacation time to future vacations, or borrowing from the following year to vacation this year.
• Owners will handle all Marriott bookings through Marriott Vacation club owner services_


The survey asks for feedback on a couple of marketing statements:

Statement 1:
_Everyone loves vacations – and many people want to be able to enjoy a variety of vacation experiences over time.  

Marriott Vacation Club offers you choice and flexibility, so you can vacation how, when and where you want.  You can enjoy dream vacations every year, even as your vacation dreams change._

Statement 2:
_Vacations are important- a periodic break that restores and enriches is practically a requirement for a happy, healthy life.  

With Marriott Vacation Club as your partner, you are assured of enjoying a lifetime of high quality vacations that are just right for you.  So, as soon as you join Marriott Vacation Club, you can be confident you made the right decision for you and your family._

Statement 3:
_People want great vacation experiences that are easy to plan and schedule.  

Marriott Vacation Club makes vacationing simple by providing you with consistent and dependable vacation experiences from start to finish.  Using Marriott Vacation club is clear and easy to understand, so you can relax and focus on enjoying your vacation._

Lastly, the survey stated Marriott wanted to be able to communicate to its owners and asked about 4 possible ways to communicate and how often.

I personally was very excited about this new Marriott Vacation Club but I can see how some people may not like such a drastic change.  I think it's interesting Marriott is not asking how we like the new program offerings but instead, how to MARKET and SELL the program.  It looks like it's a done deal.


----------



## wuv pooh (Oct 13, 2009)

Latravel said:


> I personally was very excited about this new Marriott Vacation Club but I can see how some people may not like how much of a drastic change this will be.  I think it's interesting Marriott is not asking how we like the program but instead, how to MARKET and SELL the program.  It looks like it's a done deal.



I think it is an interesting option, but if they think they can charge $5,000 a week to join then it is dead on arrival.  No way is it worth that much to me.

Interesting about the adventure travel, maybe that is a Disney tie in with Adventures by Disney that started the Marriott Disney rumor.


----------



## LAX Mom (Oct 13, 2009)

I hope this new program is better received than the "enhancements" to the Marriott Rewards program effective Jan. 15, 2009. I question the wisdom of proceeding with this new program in this economy. Does Marriott realize this program won't succeed if they upset the Marriott owners? 

Personally I am very happy with the current system and my exchanges with II. I like having the option to exchange outside the Marriott resorts. I own low season Marriotts but have been able to get some great exchanges during Flexchange. If my weeks have a low value with Marriott even during the 60 days prior to check-in I would not exchange with Marriott. I pay the same MF as a platinum week, but will probably have far less points available for an exchange.

I would not pay very much $$ (probably nothing over $500 per Marriott week) to join a Marriott Internal Exchange system.


----------



## GregT (Oct 13, 2009)

As an example, I believe Hilton charges $399 for an affiliate to join the HGVC program, and then it's $99/year.

That permits someone who owned a Bay Club property to convert their week to points for use at any of the HGVC properties as well as to rent available space on Open Season.

This may be the direction Marriott is going.  Interesting information.


----------



## SueDonJ (Oct 13, 2009)

Very interesting, especially the banking and borrowing options ....

Thanks for the heads-up, Heidi.


----------



## californiagirl (Oct 13, 2009)

Given this very limited information, it sounds similar to the Disney Vacation Club points system.  They offer the same options listed.  I agree, if they charge too much, even a good change won't be worth the money.  Or if they water down our trading strength, that will make many owners unhappy.

I like the Disney choices.  Especially being able to book any number of days I want and check-in on any day.

It will be interesting what happens.


----------



## luvsvacation22 (Oct 13, 2009)

californiagirl said:


> Given this very limited information, it sounds similar to the Disney Vacation Club points system.  They offer the same options listed.  I agree, if they charge too much, even a good change won't be worth the money.  Or if they water down our trading strength, that will make many owners unhappy.
> 
> I like the Disney choices.  Especially being able to book any number of days I want and check-in on any day.
> 
> It will be interesting what happens.



Very interesting. 
                         Marriott Vacation Club-Disney Vacation Club
                         Marriott Adventure Travel-Disney Adventure Travel
                         Marriott Banking/Borrowing-Disney Banking/Borrowing


----------



## taffy19 (Oct 13, 2009)

Latravel said:


> *It looks like the new program is more than a rumor.  I just completed a survey sent out by Marriott asking for feedback on how to market "a new product offering"...*
> 
> _Dear Valued Marriott Vacation Club Owner,
> 
> ...


Did anyone else get this survey?  I may have missed it as it may have landed in my SPAM box.


----------



## mightywyrm (Oct 14, 2009)

Yeah, though I wouldn't expect them to ask us IF they should pursue this, but how best to sell it.  

This is interesting.  The options mentioned (adventure packages, banking/borrowing) would seem to be very similar to those available from DVC...

Both DVC and Marriott have programs and capabilities that the other party could potentially tap for its own members, an array of inventory, and surely other synergies.  IF they don’t have exclusive agreements of some kind with II and RCI, and IF there is some discussion about Marriott management of DVC properties, then why not search for a win-win arrangement?  Why should Marriott reinvent the wheel if DVC already has constructed an underutilized getaway program, a proven points system, and is willing to share its own premium inventory, at the owners’ discretion for owned weeks and Marriott’s discretion for unsold inventory, on agreeable terms?  

The other thing that I think may be forming here, is an emphasis on cost, not revenue.  Utilizing excess inventory, tapping into existing facilities, gaining economies, pooling resources, etc. are mostly about costs.

IF they can create a win-win arrangement without directing their attention toward finding ways to extract more revenues from us, I’m all for it.  

IF they are focused on making their existing customers happy and loyal - and therefore paying their maintenance fees - rather than on raising prices and fees even more in a race to exploit the subjectiveness of vacation sales, then I’m all for that too. 

Still a lot of speculation, but I have to think this survey isn’t just p---ing in the wind.   Even if this is close, the devil is always in the details.  There may well be other big changes, additional players in the mix, etc.  I wouldn’t expect them to leave money on the table, either...  

Comments?  Insights?


----------



## dougp26364 (Oct 14, 2009)

GregT said:


> As an example, I believe Hilton charges $399 for an affiliate to join the HGVC program, and then it's $99/year.
> 
> That permits someone who owned a Bay Club property to convert their week to points for use at any of the HGVC properties as well as to rent available space on Open Season.
> 
> This may be the direction Marriott is going.  Interesting information.



On the flip side, Diamond Resorts (which has a silent partnership with Marriott at the Grand Chateau) has an upfront charge of $2,995 to join plus $255 (or it might be $235)/year membership fee. 

This survey isn't anything new. There has been at least one other post, maybe six months or a year ago, about a similar survey.

Personally, if they make it affordable to join, and by affordable I mean $500 or less, I'll be interested. But since we primarly use our Ocean Pointe week and, when we've exchange our Grand Chateau week, it's been on a request first basis, I'm not going to be to thrilled to pay >$500 to join any new program. After all, I've already paid developer pricing and it woudlnt' surprise me if all future sales post program changes will automatically be in any new internal program. Why should I pay to join after I paid developer pricing if new buyers get the program for free? 

It's still speculation what might or might not be done. It's still speculation how it will affect current owners and how resale buyers might could be seperated from those that made developer purchases. No one knows for certain what will happen but I believe we can say it's highly probable that something is going to change. I'm not going to get to excited about it until I see something in writing and hear their offer......if there ever is an offer.


----------



## mightywyrm (Oct 14, 2009)

dougp26364 said:


> ... This survey isn't anything new. There has been at least one other post, maybe six months or a year ago, about a similar survey.



You're right, and I *think* you're referring to this post:

http://tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=85113&highlight=marriott+survey

However, the more recent survey is much more concise and includes additional detail, such as the reference to the adventure travel package.  We've also heard rumors that DVC may be looking to Marriott to manage its properties, since the earlier survey, in all it's wordy glory, was employed.



> Personally, if they make it affordable to join, and by affordable I mean $500 or less, I'll be interested. But since we primarly use our Ocean Pointe week and, when we've exchange our Grand Chateau week, it's been on a request first basis, I'm not going to be to thrilled to pay >$500 to join any new program. After all, I've already paid developer pricing and it woudlnt' surprise me if all future sales post program changes will automatically be in any new internal program. Why should I pay to join after I paid developer pricing if new buyers get the program for free?



In terms of affordability and reasonability, I agree that a $500 price point won't offend all that much, depending on the devil in the details.  I'll reserve my "vote" until I've reviewed the specifics.



> It's still speculation what might or might not be done. It's still speculation how it will affect current owners and how resale buyers might could be seperated from those that made developer purchases. No one knows for certain what will happen but I believe we can say it's highly probable that something is going to change. I'm not going to get to excited about it until I see something in writing and hear their offer......if there ever is an offer.



Yup.  Precisely why I capitalized "IF" repeatedly in my earlier post and labeled my thoughts as such.  For all we know, Marriott may only be exploring things at this point, in which case I further speculate that they're at least 2 years away from even getting around to implementation.


----------



## CMF (Oct 14, 2009)

*I feel like the stock market.*

I don't like uncertainty.  I wish they'd pull the trigger already on whatever they are going to do.

Charles


----------



## littlestar (Oct 14, 2009)

I got the survey, but was told we didn't qualify. I did mark that someone in my family works in marketing. Maybe that's what kicked us out of taking the survey. 

Some DVC members are receiving surveys, too, about their ownerships from what I'm hearing over on the Dis boards. Maybe that's the thing to do in this economy - poll the members to find out how to get more money out of them (laughter).


----------



## thinze3 (Oct 14, 2009)

CMF said:


> I don't like uncertainty.  I wish they'd pull the trigger already on whatever they are going to do.
> 
> Charles




*** DIDDO! ***


----------



## dougp26364 (Oct 14, 2009)

CMF said:


> I don't like uncertainty.  I wish they'd pull the trigger already on whatever they are going to do.
> 
> Charles



I agree. After all this time, all these rumors and all the speculation started by their sales staff, it's time for Marriott to either fish or cut bait.


----------



## Dave&Linda (Oct 14, 2009)

We received a similar survey yesterday from marriott@brainjuicer.com but ours was for people who have sat through Marriott TS presentations but did not buy. Basically the same questions as owners got.


----------



## SueDonJ (Oct 14, 2009)

dougp26364 said:


> I agree. After all this time, all these rumors and all the speculation started by their sales staff, it's time for Marriott to either fish or cut bait.



Me too, it's time to roll this out!

I'm still not sure if this will be a good thing, depending on the details and the costs, but a marriage of DVC's superior flexibility options and MVCI's superior resort properties sounds like a winner to me.  It's sure not something I'd say "no" to, right off the bat.

Maybe they're holding off until after the m/f due dates have passed, so that they don't hit up owners at the same time with those bills and the initiation fees for a new exchange program?


----------



## irish (Oct 14, 2009)

let me qualify this by saying THIS IS JMO..
with t/s sales in the toilet MARRIOTT has thought of a way to still receive income...
let's offer a "new" program to our loyal owners and bilk them out of  even more $$$ . hell, a lot of us paid really high $$$ to own the week of timesharing. we pay exorbitant m/f's, and now they want to charge us even more to participate in a "points" program. sounds like the "RCI" game plan to me. anybody want to buy my marriott t/s?


----------



## disneydor (Oct 14, 2009)

It sounds to me like they do want to run it like DVC.


----------



## Superchief (Oct 14, 2009)

I agree with LAXMom that I am skeptical regarding any new program. Since I originally purchased at Royal Palms several years ago, the value of the 110,000 MR points has declined substantially, while annual fees keep increasing. I purchased off season weeks at our other resorts because that is when we plan to stay there, and the costs were more reasonable. I am usually able to exchange through II when I want to exchange. Based on some of the recent actions by Marriott (Ocean Pointe classified lower than Royal Palms), I doubt that any new program would improve my options. Ocean Pointe is in The Florida Club program, but this has been of no value to me. I hope there are enough other current members who feel the same way as I do, and express their concerns to Marriott. 

Even if the new program is optional, it will take a lot of MVC weeks out of the system for exchange availability.


----------



## Latravel (Oct 14, 2009)

iconnections said:


> Did anyone else get this survey?  I may have missed it as it may have landed in my SPAM box.



I found it in my spam box since it's coming from Brain Juicer.


----------



## kjd (Oct 14, 2009)

As a shoulder season traveler the Florida Club is also worthless to me as well.  This new internal exchange should be met with a lot of skepticism.  At first glance it has the trappings of a shell game engineered to benefit Marriott.  If there is any kind of yearly fee to belong to it I would not want any part of it unless it can take the place of I.I..  I do however feel that I get my money's worth by belonging to I.I.

In order to get owners to sign up for the program Marriott is going to have to offer some benefits that most owners don't get with I.I.  That didn't happen with the Florida Club.  It's one thing for MVCI management to create ways to improrve the bottom line.  It's quite another thing to think of ways to benefit members.


----------



## IngridN (Oct 14, 2009)

My concern with any "new and improved" Marriott program is their track record in impacting how I use my weeks. I was shafted with the change in their rental program; I was shafted with the points devaluation (which I understand totally) without adjusting the number of points received; my guess is that the third time won't be the charm...  Just IMHO of course  .

And since I purchased from developer, will NOT pay big $ to join this great new program.

Ingrid


----------



## JimC (Oct 14, 2009)

Sorry, but I thought we already were members of the Marriott Vacation Club and it was already a great vacation experience, flexible and affordable.  Or at least that is what I remember hearing and reading from MVCI since we first bought a Marriott property.  Not sure why we should buy-in again to get what we already paid for when we bought originally.  What they mention in that survey are patches to an existing system to fix weaknesses that should not have existed in the first place.


----------



## littlestar (Oct 14, 2009)

JimC said:


> Sorry, but I thought we already were members of the Marriott Vacation Club and it was already a great vacation experience, flexible and affordable.  Or at least that is what I remember hearing and reading from MVCI since we first bought a Marriott property.  Not sure why we should buy-in again to get what we already paid for when we bought originally.  What they mention in that survey are patches to an existing system to fix weaknesses that should not have existed in the first place.



I agree completely.


----------



## cp73 (Oct 14, 2009)

I didn't read anything about trading from one Resort to another in the posting. Did I miss this? Seems like it was all about your existing unit at your home resort.


----------



## Latravel (Oct 14, 2009)

Totally agree.  I think this survey was focusing on how to market this change.  They specifically asked what you liked and disliked about the statements.  No mention of cost and how much we would pay to join.  Maybe there is no cost to join?


----------



## Latravel (Oct 14, 2009)

sorry, wrong button!


----------



## ldanna (Oct 14, 2009)

Superchief said:


> ... Based on some of the recent actions by Marriott (Ocean Pointe classified lower than Royal Palms), I doubt that any new program would improve my options...



Do you mind to explain Ocean Point been classified lower than Royal Palms?


----------



## LAX Mom (Oct 14, 2009)

I did not like (tempted to use caps here or lots of !!!!!) the way Marriott rolled out the changes to the Marriott Rewards program last Jan! Several months prior to the changes they made a big deal about the "enhancements" to the MR program and "no blackout dates". 

In reality these changes greatly devalued the points we have acquired for many years of MR VISA charges, hotel stays, timeshare promotions, etc. They eliminated the Euro Hopper package and greatly increased the amount of points needed for a 7 night stay. They created a new category 8 level for hotel properties which now cost 240,000 points for a 7 night stay, compared to 150,000 before the changes.

I did not see the new program as an "enhancement" and I was insulted that Marriott tried to market this way. 

Just tell me the truth, with inflation the point values had to be adjusted. I can deal with that, it's acting like this new program is a huge improvement over the prior one that bugs me!


----------



## Superchief (Oct 14, 2009)

ldanna said:


> Do you mind to explain Ocean Point been classified lower than Royal Palms?



When Marriott assigned hotel category classifications to MVC timeshares, Ocean Pointe was assigned category 5, while Royal Palms was category 6. However, when I checked the Marriott Rewards classifications today, I noticed that Ocean Pointe is now category 6. Although I always have enjoyed Royal Palms, I would consider Ocean Pointe to be a much nicer resort with higher demand. 

I am fearful that Marriott will assign point values that do not correspond to the true value to the owners, and therefore will really screw up the current system.


----------



## mightywyrm (Oct 14, 2009)

LAX Mom said:


> I did not like (tempted to use caps here or lots of !!!!!) the way Marriott rolled out the changes to the Marriott Rewards program last Jan! Several months prior to the changes they made a big deal about the "enhancements" to the MR program and "no blackout dates".
> 
> In reality these changes greatly devalued the points we have acquired for many years of MR VISA charges, hotel stays, timeshare promotions, etc. They eliminated the Euro Hopper package and greatly increased the amount of points needed for a 7 night stay. They created a new category 8 level for hotel properties which now cost 240,000 points for a 7 night stay, compared to 150,000 before the changes.
> 
> ...



Heh, I hesitate to jump in here, but I agree with Lisa enough to vent a little too.  Sales and Marketing are all about this sort of thing.  There are professional courses you can take for "effective business writing" (and I've taken one), which include techniques and insights into how to spin bad news by focusing on some positive aspect(s) of it.

For example, in the recent devaluation, it wasn't difficult to note the way they chose to package 5 nights, but actually define them as 4 nights with a free night thrown in.  This enabled a number of things, including the use of positive language, and focus on a bonus night free.  Unstated was the fact that you used to get 7 nights, that they exacted even more points for their most valuable inventory, or that this change represented about a 40% reduction in value (in our case, anyway).  

It also allowed Marriott to advertise "no blackouts" when, as we've discovered, they're very much in effect, at the hotel level, for some (much?) of the most sought-after inventory.  Further, they can take that bonus free night away later with little fanfare, because it wasn't part of the base package of nights.

Most importantly, it was also a way to reduce a very large liability, with the proverbial stroke of a pen.  Don't we all wish we could do that with our balance sheets?


----------



## Numismatist (Oct 15, 2009)

Vent:  I can remember 30 seconds after walking out of the sales area after the MFC I had just purchased thinking to myself:  'well, they got my money up front, they don't really have an incentive anymore to do anything for me now...'

I'm thinking this will be the same thing.  Get the $500 (or whatever it is) upfront under the guise of clever marketing, and then not deliver very much in return.

What choice do we have?


----------



## JimIg23 (Oct 15, 2009)

that is the reason I wont put any money down for this.  I wont pay hundreds or thousands of dollars to find out they have no inventory I really want to trade for.


----------



## judys19058 (Oct 17, 2009)

Just like others here on the board, I just came from a sales presentation where the guy says he knows about the new program.  Supposedly only owners who purchased from Marriott will get the option to do internal trades.  Assuming that this correct, what percentage of owners will be left out?  What percentage of units were purchased on the open resale market?  Will we still see many Marriott units on II?  With II we have scored many upgraded units (trading studios for 1 and 2 bedrooms).  This will not happen in the new points system.  Trades from lesser valued properties will cost more in points to trade to those popular areas like ski seasons and Hawaii.  I am not sure this is the improvement we wanted.


----------



## taffy19 (Oct 17, 2009)

How many people here got the survey?  I went through all my old messages and the SPAM box too but I didn't see a survey.  

I wished Marriott would stop these rumors now and introduce the new system, if there is one.  I also hope that it isn't mandatory either.  They never forced us to belong to II like some of the other developers do with a Corporate II or RCI account.  Leave the choice up to us and don't make it too expensive or nobody will join.


----------



## lovearuba (Oct 17, 2009)

*know what you are buying*



Numismatist said:


> Vent: I can remember 30 seconds after walking out of the sales area after the MFC I had just purchased thinking to myself: 'well, they got my money up front, they don't really have an incentive anymore to do anything for me now...'
> 
> I'm thinking this will be the same thing. Get the $500 (or whatever it is) upfront under the guise of clever marketing, and then not deliver very much in return.
> 
> What choice do we have?


 
If they fully disclose what you are signing up for and you fully understand the wording in those agreements you should be okay.  The issue will be the terms and their ability to change the rules.  They seem to always change the rules don't they?


----------



## JimIg23 (Oct 17, 2009)

judys19058 said:


> Just like others here on the board, I just came from a sales presentation where the guy says he knows about the new program.  Supposedly only owners who purchased from Marriott will get the option to do internal trades.



Do other TS groups do this?  After a while, I don't see how this wont affect even initial sales as some people will realize the value of the timeshare they are about to drop 40k on will drop to pennies overnight if they have to sell it.


----------



## Dave M (Oct 17, 2009)

judys19058 said:


> Supposedly only owners who purchased from Marriott will get the option to do internal trades.


Although I believe a sales person said it, it is hogwash! Of course one would expect a salesperson to say that. It's his way of trying to get the prospect to buy from Marriott.

First, it should backfire in his face when the prospect responds, "I was thinking about buying from you, but now I can't because it's evident that I won't be able to resell my timeshare because of the two-class system that you say Marriott will implement."

Second, Marriott wouldn't dream of disenfranchising a large group of owners from a process (internal exchanges) that will be a money-maker for Marriott.

Third, as previously explained, the info I received when I started another thread on this topic earlier this year was that the fee to join the internal exchange program will likely be higher for those who didn't buy from Marriott. The issue as to whether there will be grandfathering for existing resale owners was unresolved.

Fourth, although I can't get confirmation yet, my own recent contacts and some of the posts in this thread from those who have discussed the program with internal Marriott people suggest to me that, like the announced cutbacks in timeshare development, the development of this internal exchange system might have been temporarily curtailed due to the recession. Again, I can't confirm that.


----------



## TheTimeTraveler (Oct 17, 2009)

Thank you Dave for your valuable input.  Welcome back.


----------



## Latravel (Oct 18, 2009)

Dave M said:


> Fourth, although I can't get confirmation yet, my own recent contacts and some of the posts in this thread from those who have discussed the program with internal Marriott people suggest to me that, like the announced cutbacks in timeshare development, the development of this internal exchange system might have been temporarily curtailed due to the recession. Again, I can't confirm that.



If that were the case, why did I receive this email just a few days ago?  This survey was specifically on marketing the product and how I felt about the statements I posted.  If it was being put on hold, they wouldn't contract with this company to research their marketing plan.  It doesn't make sense.


----------



## CMF (Oct 18, 2009)

Never assume that the right hand knows what the left hand is doing.

Charles


----------



## Cobra1950 (Oct 18, 2009)

I am sure I missed something here but where did the $5000 membership fee come from?:hysterical:


----------



## Dave M (Oct 18, 2009)

I think it makes sense. 

Marriott has been putting out similar surveys - but not as detailed as this one - to selected owners regarding an internal exchange program for over a year. The very fact that they sent a new survey suggests that they haven't finalized some of the details. So a delay in implementation wouldn't be unreasonable to expect. 

And if you were implementing a new "product" would you do it in the middle of a recession? It might be better to wait until there is more of an economic recovery.



Latravel said:


> If that were the case, why did I receive this email just a few days ago?  This survey was specifically on marketing the product and how I felt about the statements I posted.  If it was being put on hold, they wouldn't contract with this company to research their marketing plan.  It doesn't make sense.


----------



## Dave M (Oct 18, 2009)

Cobra1950 said:


> I am sure I missed something here but where did the $5000 membership fee come from?:hysterical:


Pure speculation on the part of a poster in this thread. Marriott has not made any such announcement.


----------



## jlee2070 (Oct 18, 2009)

This sounds like a survey they sent out last year pretty much asking some of the same questions...

http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=68416&highlight=survey


----------



## timeos2 (Oct 18, 2009)

*Easy money - go for it!*



Dave M said:


> Fourth, although I can't get confirmation yet, my own recent contacts and some of the posts in this thread from those who have discussed the program with internal Marriott people suggest to me that, like the announced cutbacks in timeshare development, the development of this internal exchange system might have been temporarily curtailed due to the recession. Again, I can't confirm that.



My view, and that's all it is - no "inside" information of any kind, is that an inexpensive change to an internal trade system is exactly what they are likely to implement vs the capital intensive construction of new resorts/units. For relatively small investment in time and software they can sell $3000-$5000 +/- upgrades to easy to reach existing owners as well as new buyers that are practically pure profit. Compare that to millions to build and then the massive cost of marketing resorts and you can see where the money is to be made. They nust be drooling looking at DRI and others who have a conversion program that generates sales from existing inventory they don't even own! It is a no brainer to take the easy way and do the least capital intensive path to big income. I'd be surprised if they don't try to move into quickly especially if most of the prep work has already been done.


----------



## m61376 (Oct 18, 2009)

Cobra1950 said:


> I am sure I missed something here but where did the $5000 membership fee come from?:hysterical:



I think that came from the original pricing for joining the Asia Pacific Points program. That is likely the testing ground for the possible eventual roll-out of a system wide program, which may or may not be similar to the AP program.

As Dave said, at this point any fee structure is just pure speculation.


----------



## tahoeJoe (Oct 18, 2009)

*Consequences of Two-Tier Trading Systems*

I bought my Marriott week on the secondary market and have really enjoyed good trading experiences. My concern is this.

Marriott holds its value relatively well on the secondary market because those who buy there have substantially the same rights as those who buy from the developer. 

Many Starwood properties are the opposite. Many who buy on the secondary market cannot trade within the Starwood Vacation Netwrok (SVN) system. So their properties depreciate substantially. For example, a beautiful 2bedroom/2bathroom Sheraton property in Scottsdale just sold for under $500 on E-Bay. This is because existing owners who want to resell their properties have an inferior product-one that doesn't come with the same trading rights as those who purchased from the developer. Due to this, Starwood does not have ROFR.

If, via this new trading system, Marriott creates a "second class" trading system for resale owners, all owners may see the value of their properties plummet after initial sale just like Starwood does. And remember Marriott is not exercising ROFR. 

-TJ


----------



## taffy19 (Oct 18, 2009)

tahoeJoe said:


> I bought my Marriott week on the secondary market and have really enjoyed good trading experiences. My concern is this.
> 
> *Marriott holds its value relatively well on the secondary market* because those who buy there have substantially the same rights as those who buy from the developer.
> 
> ...


I wished that were true but the Marriott resale prices have already gone down a lot this year but that may also be the bad economy we are experiencing right now plus the fact that Marriott is no longer exercising the ROFR. 

Even the Marriott developer is offering discount prices for quite a while already which is a price reduction, in reality, but they won't admit it. 

Owning a timeshare is a luxury item and the ever increasing maintenance fees will make the resale prices go lower yet. Owning a timeshare today is becoming more of a burden than a savings like timeshare vacations aee supposed to be.  That's the spiel you get even today.   

There are too many good vacation deals out there that are lower than maintenance fees and condo rentals, where you get the view you pay for, are about for the same price now that timeshare owners are paying in maintenance fees for their view units. They are no longer getting these very high rental rates like they used to get before and even prime location hotel rooms are discounted too on many web sites.

This is a tough time for timeshare developers and for us too, if the maintenance fees keep increasing at the pace they have been increasing lately plus the taxes in Maui.  They never liked timeshare owners there and they are out to kill the timeshare market completely for everyone. If the other islands are increasing their taxes as much as Maui is planning to do, resale prices will drop even faster in HI than anywhere else.


----------



## kamumma1 (Oct 18, 2009)

JimC said:


> Sorry, but I thought we already were members of the Marriott Vacation Club and it was already a great vacation experience, flexible and affordable.  Or at least that is what I remember hearing and reading from MVCI since we first bought a Marriott property.  Not sure why we should buy-in again to get what we already paid for when we bought originally.  What they mention in that survey are patches to an existing system to fix weaknesses that should not have existed in the first place.



I agree.  I am not interested in paying anything above and beyond II's & Marriott's fees ($89 + $99) to exchange.  And even then, the only difference would be I have a smaller pool of timeshares to exchange into.  Not really liking the sounds of this...


----------



## potchak (Oct 18, 2009)

Can't say I am interested in paying hundreds let alone thousands of dollars for internal trading. The current way works. If you are going to charge me a ton more money to do what I am already doing today- no thanks!


----------

