# Pets are now permitted at A Place At the Beach III in Atlantic Beach, NC



## Egret1986 (Oct 22, 2014)

Pets have to be registered with the office.  A pet cleaning fee in the amount of $125 is due at check-in for the first pet and $25 for a second pet.  Dogs and cats only.  Only owners can bring pets.  No renters, guests or exchangers are allowed to bring pets.


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## Steve (Oct 22, 2014)

*Great News*

That's a great change.  I hope more timeshares decide to allow pets in the future.  

Steve


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## joycapecod (Oct 23, 2014)

*pets and timeshares*



Steve said:


> That's a great change.  I hope more timeshares decide to allow pets in the future.
> 
> Steve



I for one hope this does not become a trend. I don't want to have to deal with precious Fido barking all night and being afraid to to sit outside because some pet owner is not responsible. 

We were at Oak N Spruce in Massachusetts a few years ago and check out days early because the unit next to us had a pit bull. I complained to the desk and was told that unit was owner occupied that week and pets were allowed. I know not all pit bulls are vicious, but why would I want to take that chance?

Just my opinion and I know this is a "hot" button with pet owners.

Joy


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## natasha5687 (Oct 23, 2014)

joycapecod said:


> I for one hope this does not become a trend. I don't want to have to deal with precious Fido barking all night and being afraid to to sit outside because some pet owner is not responsible.
> 
> We were at Oak N Spruce in Massachusetts a few years ago and check out days early because the unit next to us had a pit bull. I complained to the desk and was told that unit was owner occupied that week and pets were allowed. I know not all pit bulls are vicious, but why would I want to take that chance?
> 
> ...



All dogs can be vicious I have been chased and bitten badly by a Chiuaua which is why I am afraid of small dogs to this day.  To each their own I suppose but I dont think its a fair statement to talk about chancing it with a Pit Bull.  There are many way more vicious breeds.  As the owner of a Pit Bull who thinks that he is a lap dog and runs away from the door when someone knocks I know this first hand.  Perhaps you should research breeds.  Pits were bread to be nanny dogs and are very nurturing.  I can assure you the type of owner who is breeding a dog (any dog) to be vicious is not the type who is taking the dog on family vacation.


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## theo (Oct 23, 2014)

*Yessa!*



joycapecod said:


> I for one *hope this does not become a trend. I don't want to have to deal with precious Fido barking all night and being afraid to to sit outside because some pet owner is not responsible. *
> 
> Just my opinion and I know this is a "hot" button with pet owners.



I agree with you 100% --- and I *am* a pet owner. *Pets don't belong in ANY timeshare facility, where units have multiple different owners and occupants.* Period, amen.

Allowing owners, but not renters or exchangers, to bring pets is ineffective and just plain silly. Will "owner pets" somehow magically not introduce dander allergens?  
Will "owner pets" somehow magically not bark, soil, growl, whine or otherwise offend and disturb other owners or guests who want *no* part of being involuntarily subjected to (...ahem) "sharing and enjoying" the unsolicited (and to many other *owners*, completely unwelcome) presence of Fido and / or Fluffy?  

This "policy change" will likely be very short-lived in any case. The first owner with allergies who takes occupancy of their unit / week and promptly has allergic reactions to the residual dander of some other owner's four-legged friend will have a very strong case against their HOA. I  wish that I could be the one to take on and argue and decisively win that (...likely inevitable) case. Worry not; there will be no "pets allowed trend" spreading much (if any) further in timeshares within the U.S. 
People can instead choose to have *sole* occupancy of *their own* vacation home anywhere they choose and bring all the inhabitants of Noah's Ark along with them if so inclined, instead of spoiling timeshare properties and ruining the whole timeshare experience for the *many **other* owners there who want *no* part of any pets at their facility, as is their indisputable right and prerogative as fee-paying deeded owners. 

It's also worthy of note that invariably, a *NO PETS* policy was an established matter long in practice at any given resort when everyone purchased their interval(s), including the now-lonely pet owners. Is a lonesome pet owner minority entitled to just override the vast majority will of all the other owners? No; not for a second.

Btw, I personally have no allergies or any allergy issues. What I *do* have however is some consideration and respect for the health and rights of two-legged others, who have paid serious money to own, support, use and enjoy their portion of a timeshare facility for a week or two or three --- *without* having to *ever* be exposed against their will to other peoples' pets (even well behaved pets) *or* to the residual allergenic aftermath of *any* animals' previous inappropriate presence there.


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## tonyg (Oct 23, 2014)

A Place at the Beach III has full time ownership for some units, so that is probably why they decided on allowing pets. We were there several years ago and there were a lot of cats wandering around. Not one of the best resorts in the area IMHO.


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## theo (Oct 23, 2014)

tonyg said:


> ...a lot of cats wandering around.



Do they have any coyotes in coastal NC? 

If so, the coyotes would likely find the little feline fluffies quite tasty with mustard.

If not, we could ship some coyotes south from New England. Got Grey Poupon? :ignore:


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## Egret1986 (Oct 23, 2014)

*This is always a hot topic.*

One of my other timeshares on the OBX has this type of policy for owners.  Owners can bring their pets, register them and pay an additional pet fee.  It is a smaller "timeshare development" (about 20 duplex units) with no amenities except a beautiful beach.  No exchangers, guests or renters can bring pets, only owners.  

They have had this policy for many, many years.  While I am a pet owner and utilized the option one time, I'm not sure that it is a good idea.  I know that I don't want to be subjected to the potential of irresponsible pet owners or their uncontrollable pets.  Allergies to pet dander is very real and the quick cleaning that has to be done between check-in and check-out leaves me wondering how all that can be taken care of in such a short window.  Below is what I received by email after the HOA meeting.

A Place at the Beach Timeshare Pet Policy

Timeshare ownership is unique in that every week a new owner comes in to use each unit. The incoming owners find that the condition of the unit is always affected by the previous owners/guests, particularly for incoming owners who have allergies and/or breathing problems. Many of our timeshare owners at A Place at the Beach consider their pets an essential part of the family, so it's no surprise that owners want their dogs and cats to enjoy all the perks of an APATB vacation, just as they do. However, the next owner 
in the unit may not be a pet person and may be allergic to pet dander. Having a pet with you in the unit requires additional cleaning, including carpet cleaning, after you leave. We have also seen damages caused by pets brought onsite by deeded owners which include excessive carpet or bedding stains, 
scratching of furniture, walls and doors.

Beginning in January 2015 all timeshare owners bringing a pet to stay in their unit will be charged a $125.00 non-refundable pet fee for the first pet and $25.00 for each additional pet. This pet fee will be collected at the time of check-in. Please make sure that your pets are registered at the front desk and have an APATB pet tag. The Town of Atlantic Beach has a leash law and a “pooper scooper” law that is strictly enforced. Those laws are posted on the aplaceatthebeachhoa.org website. Pet owners must clean 
up after their pets on public and private property. Pets are limited to dogs and cats. No reptiles, exotic pets, birds, rodents or livestock are allowed on the property.While you’re here, make sure to keep your dog well-hydrated and have plenty of shade. Our strong summer sun makes for very hot pavement and sand, so providing shade is essential and morning or 
evening walks are best. Salt water can be nauseating for dogs, so keep lots of fresh, cool water at hand.  Also, be sure to mind the local leash law and "scooper" law.

* Pets are not permitted in the center courtyard.

* The Carteret County Health Department does not allow pets in the swimming pool areas, hot tubs, public restrooms, game rooms or any place serving food or beverages.

* Rental guests, exchange guests, visitors or guests of owners (including day guests) are NOT allowed to have pets on the property.

* Important “Pet” Telephone Numbers:

Petsmart, Inc. (252) 727-0002
 5160 Highway 70, Morehead City, NC 28557

PetDocks Veterinary Hospital (252) 240-3885
 5307 Highway 70, Morehead City, NC 28557

Bridges Professional Park Animal Hospital (252) 247-5595 or 444-1399
 214 Commerce Ave., Morehead City, NC 28557


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## pacodemountainside (Oct 23, 2014)

*Biting Dogs*



natasha5687 said:


> All dogs can be vicious I have been chased and bitten badly by a Chiuaua which is why I am afraid of small dogs to this day.  To each their own I suppose but I dont think its a fair statement to talk about chancing it with a Pit Bull.  There are many way more vicious breeds.  As the owner of a Pit Bull who thinks that he is a lap dog and runs away from the door when someone knocks I know this first hand.  Perhaps you should research breeds.  Pits were bread to be nanny dogs and are very nurturing.  I can assure you the type of owner who is breeding a dog (any dog) to be vicious is not the type who is taking the dog on family vacation.



http://www.dogsbite.org/dog-bite-statistics-fatalities-2013.php

What is a Chiuaua? Maybe Chihuahua


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## theo (Oct 23, 2014)

*One spelling fits all --- NO PETS!*



pacodemountainside said:


> What is a Chiuaua? Maybe Chihuahua



The individual breed (and / or the correct spelling thereof) is completely irrelevant; *ALL* pets have *NO* place at *ANY* timeshare facility.


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## pacodemountainside (Oct 23, 2014)

theo said:


> The individual breed (and / or the correct spelling thereof) is completely irrelevant; *ALL* pets have *NO* place at timeshare facilities.



Poster had digressed from  pets  at resorts to  phobia  about unknown  breed of small  dog.

I am a pet lover, but do agree  this is very controversial. If owner is willing to pay for professional Ionization  and steam cleaning a case could be made 

I choose to leave my pets at home with a sitter.


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## dougp26364 (Oct 23, 2014)

It's to bad it's owners only. I enjoy bringing our pets on vacation with us but an owners only resort does me no good. 

It's a shame this appears to be digressing into one of those pets/no-pets threads. It serves little purpose as resorts will do what resorts will do. If you don't like pet friendly resorts, just make a list and avoid them. That's what we do. We make a list and we go to them with our pets.

I do think it would be important that exchangers know a resorts pet policy. Especially if they have a owners only policy for bringing pets. I'd hate to exchange into a resort and find out it allows pets for owners but lists itself as not allowing exchangers to bring pets, allowing exchangers to assume it's a pet free resort.


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## joycapecod (Oct 24, 2014)

dougp26364 said:


> It's to bad it's owners only. I enjoy bringing our pets on vacation with us but an owners only resort does me no good.
> 
> It's a shame this appears to be digressing into one of those pets/no-pets threads. It serves little purpose as resorts will do what resorts will do. If you don't like pet friendly resorts, just make a list and avoid them. That's what we do. We make a list and we go to them with our pets.
> 
> I do think it would be important that exchangers know a resorts pet policy. Especially if they have a owners only policy for bringing pets. I'd hate to exchange into a resort and find out it allows pets for owners but lists itself as not allowing exchangers to bring pets, allowing exchangers to assume it's a pet free resort.



Yes, exactly. That was the biggest issue at Oak N Spruce. We had been there a few years prior and it was no pets at all. Had it been acknowledged prior to finding out the "hard way" that pets were allowed we would have exchanged to another resort. 

Yes, resorts will do what resort want to do, but it should be noted on that the resort is pet friendly when making the exchange. I have no issue with dogs/cat/ igunans/ ferrets etc., but I believe that it should be transparent at time of confirmation that pets are allowed.

Like I said before, this is just my opinion.

Joy


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## joycapecod (Oct 24, 2014)

*research*



natasha5687 said:


> All dogs can be vicious I have been chased and bitten badly by a Chiuaua which is why I am afraid of small dogs to this day.  To each their own I suppose but I dont think its a fair statement to talk about chancing it with a Pit Bull.  There are many way more vicious breeds.  As the owner of a Pit Bull who thinks that he is a lap dog and runs away from the door when someone knocks I know this first hand.  Perhaps you should research breeds.  Pits were bread to be nanny dogs and are very nurturing.  I can assure you the type of owner who is breeding a dog (any dog) to be vicious is not the type who is taking the dog on family vacation.



Natasha, I am happy for you that you think your pit bull is a lap dog, but you didn't need to suggest that I research breeds. I don't want to be in the company of a pit bull; I also don't want to be in the company of any pet when on vacation. Other people like to vacation with their pets; I have friends who do, and for them that is fine. 

You can defend your pit all you want, but as you have a fear of small dogs, others have a reasonable fear of large dogs. I would rather take my chances with a 10 pound dog than one that weights as much as I.

As written earlier, this is just my opinion.

Joy


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## dougp26364 (Oct 24, 2014)

The only real issue I see is if a resort allows pets, even if it's just for their owners, they need to make it known to everyone. Allergies, phobia's of just wanting peace and quite are all legitimate reasons someone might not want to exchange into a pet friendly resort. It's not so much a resort allows pets but that they allow someone to make a reservation without the knowledge they'll be sharing their vacation with dogs and/or cats.

Think of it this way. You book a trip and it's only after you arrive at the resort you find out it's clothing optional. If you're not comfortable being around naked strangers, it could really have an impact on the enjoyment of your vacation. 

IMHO it has very little to do with the pets themselves and everything to do with an exchanger not knowing the resort allows pets until after they've arrived and it's to late. That's a disservice to everyone IMHO.


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## natasha5687 (Oct 24, 2014)

joycapecod said:


> Natasha, I am happy for you that you think your pit bull is a lap dog, but you didn't need to suggest that I research breeds. I don't want to be in the company of a pit bull; I also don't want to be in the company of any pet when on vacation. Other people like to vacation with their pets; I have friends who do, and for them that is fine.
> 
> You can defend your pit all you want, but as you have a fear of small dogs, others have a reasonable fear of large dogs. I would rather take my chances with a 10 pound dog than one that weights as much as I.
> 
> ...



I dont have to defend my dog.  I feel the way that I do and I know my dogs personality...I raised him from a puppy.  You made a specific mention of Pit Bulls in general and not that you did not care to be in the company of any pet.  You are 100% entitled to your own personal opinion.  I am fully aware of why this breed gets a bad rap and the fatality statistics highly reflect Pit Bulls that have been aquired with the intention of making them viscious in most instances. Just imagine if people were treated the same based on race, religion, sexual orientation, or gender, oh wait that happens in America every single day because of pure ignorance. http://www.animalplanet.com/pets/quizzes-5-myths-debunked.htm


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## geekette (Oct 24, 2014)

theo said:


> The individual breed (and / or the correct spelling thereof) is completely irrelevant; *ALL* pets have *NO* place at *ANY* timeshare facility.



in your opinion.  Obviously, some timeshare developments have a different opinion.

Silverleaf used to be dog friendly throughout the chain, including Oak N Spruce in Lee, MA.


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## SueDonJ (Oct 24, 2014)

dougp26364 said:


> The only real issue I see is if a resort allows pets, even if it's just for their owners, they need to make it known to everyone. Allergies, phobia's of just wanting peace and quite are all legitimate reasons someone might not want to exchange into a pet friendly resort. It's not so much a resort allows pets but that they allow someone to make a reservation without the knowledge they'll be sharing their vacation with dogs and/or cats.
> 
> Think of it this way. You book a trip and it's only after you arrive at the resort you find out it's clothing optional. If you're not comfortable being around naked strangers, it could really have an impact on the enjoyment of your vacation.
> 
> IMHO it has very little to do with the pets themselves and everything to do with an exchanger not knowing the resort allows pets until after they've arrived and it's to late. That's a disservice to everyone IMHO.



I agree completely that any timeshares which allow pets, including those that allow it as an owners-only perk - should make that known in advance to any guests who are thinking about exchanging in or booking a cash stay.

We're very lucky in that my brother happily takes over as our dawg's owner whenever we need him; he and the dawg are thrilled with the arrangement.  But it's not as easy for many pet-owners to leave their pets which means there's definitely a market for pet-friendly timeshares.  I wouldn't choose to visit them (which is why I'd want to know before thinking about booking them) but it's very easy to understand why some want them.

But like anything else that's a personal preference, you can't choose what you want/don't want unless you know it exists.


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## Laurie (Oct 24, 2014)

I do wish more timeshares had at least a few specific designated units for pets - but don't think all units should be so designated. And I can't help but chime in about this:

Most pit bull and other dog bites occur by dogs who their owners swear are friendly and "would never hurt a soul."

Anyone who believes that temperament in specific dog breeds isn't generally influenced by generations of previous breeding isn't aware of how dog genetics work.  Same for anyone who doesn't believe that aggressiveness is often an innate temperament.  That doesn't mean there aren't individual exceptions, but the nurture and training of a specific animal rarely trumps innate inherited personality characteristics.  

There are people who think it's nifty to breed and own wolf-hybrids - I've even known a few. I admire wolves. But IMO anyone who would own one and trust one as a pet is delusional.

If you disagree and think you have the science to back up your opinions, show it to me. My experience is with sled dogs, who are bred for a specific purpose. Many characteristics of their temperaments are absolutely inherited, and cannot reliably be trumped by training. That's why breeding for working dogs is done so carefully and intentionally.  

Additionally, with any popularized breed such as pit bulls, breeding is done haphazardly and without intention. 

Dog breeds were originally created by humans, for specific purposes. There is no analogy to be made with human genetics here, or with discrimination against groups of humans.

Anyone invested in changing the reputation of pit bulls as aggressive could accomplish something tangible by engaging in selective breeding - selecting for gentleness and selecting out aggressiveness. Do that over many generations, and you will begin to have your desired results.  This is unlikely to ever happen, because the people who defend pit bulls as gentle are rarely breeders.

Until/unless the breed's temperament and attack history statistically changes, I would personally not choose to be in the company of a pit bull and would especially never risk endangering a child's life.


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## BocaBoy (Oct 27, 2014)

Steve said:


> That's a great change.  I hope more timeshares decide to allow pets in the future.
> 
> Steve



I think it is an absolutely horrible change.  It is beyond me why a timeshare which does not allow smoking (BTW, I am not a smoker) would allow pets.  Some people are extremely allergic to animals, especially cats, so it is a health issue as well as a maintenance cost issue.


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## Egret1986 (Oct 27, 2014)

*If one is not affected by allergies to something, they have no idea the effects.*



BocaBoy said:


> I think it is an absolutely horrible change.  It is beyond me why a timeshare which does not allow smoking (BTW, I am not a smoker) would allow pets.  Some people are extremely allergic to animals, especially cats, so it is a health issue as well as a maintenance cost issue.



I have a co-worker (for 25 years) that is extremely allergic to scents from perfume, body sprays, lotions.  We work in a mail processing facility with lots of folks wearing these products.  No one really gets it because they don't "walk in her shoes."  She does what she can to protect herself because our employer can't ban these items.  She does what she can to protect herself.

I am unsure how units can be properly cleaned of all pet residue in the short time frame between check-out and check-in.  I don't think it can be done.


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## klpca (Oct 27, 2014)

I am a pet owner (for 30+ years), a rental property owner (mid rise urban building), and a timeshare owner. 

A few years ago, we rented our condo to a nice couple with a small dog. The dog came with references from the prior rental so against our better judgement, we rented to this couple. Huge mistake. 1) The dog didn't bark, it whined all day. The next door neighbors rightfully complained. 2)The owners may have thought that the dog was housebroken, but it wasn't. In addition to peeing on the carpet, it peed on the balcony and then dribbled down the drain to the patio below. The downstairs neighbors complained. Of course, the HOA got involved, as did our property manager. We had to let the couple out of their lease early after a few months just to get them out of there. The carpet had to be replaced. The unit was empty for nearly a month between the cleaning and fix up time plus the normal time to get it re-leased. We didn't return the pet deposit, but it came no where close to covering our put of pocket costs. And the kicker was the owners arguing every step of the way that it wasn't their dog that was the issue, even when confronted with proof!

As a timeshare owner, I worry that the cost to the association will go up. I get why pet owners want to bring their pets along, but I think that people would be surprised at the cost to repair damage caused by pets.


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## theo (Oct 27, 2014)

*...And that's a comparatively SMALL cost...*



klpca said:


> <snip> As a timeshare owner, I worry that the cost to the association will go up. I get why pet owners want to bring their pets along, but I think that people would be surprised at the cost to repair damage caused by pets.



Not to even mention the *legal* and / or *settlement* costs to the timeshare HOA when some innocent timeshare (...but not pet) owner inevitably has severe allergic reactions requiring medical attention --- because of the prior week-long presence of some little Feline Fluffy *while occupying their own unit / week*.   

A dog bite sustained by another owner (...or guest, renter, employee, or vendor) while legitimately on property? I can hear the "Ka-Chings" as the cash register sings.

Can you say "treble damages"? Winning such cases and associated settlements is child's play, so why knowingly create any such HOA risk and exposure in the first place?


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## dougp26364 (Oct 27, 2014)

BocaBoy said:


> I think it is an absolutely horrible change.  It is beyond me why a timeshare which does not allow smoking (BTW, I am not a smoker) would allow pets.  Some people are extremely allergic to animals, especially cats, so it is a health issue as well as a maintenance cost issue.



People are allergic to more than pets. Be careful going down that road. The next thing you know a lot more than pets could be banned. 

As to cleaing and maintenance, I agree, and pet owners often pay a substantail feel to bring their pets. I've had it range from $70 to $170. At $170 that's approx 20% of the annual MF paid at many resorts (assuming average MF's of $850). $70 was at a hotel and amounted to a 25% increase in the cost of the room. Most have been in the neighborhood of an extra $125.

While I like to bring our pets, I do get your point. However I think the market is big enough for pet friendly options to be offered. But like I said, I think it's very important that guests know in advance that the resort allows pets. After all, I'd hate to book a vacation at a resort I thought was for adults only, then found out there was a policy change and the resort was now over run with screaming children delighting in the summer vacation.


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## dougp26364 (Oct 27, 2014)

theo said:


> Not to even mention the *legal* and / or *settlement* costs to the timeshare HOA when some innocent timeshare (...but not pet) owner inevitably has severe allergic reactions requiring medical attention --- because of the prior week-long presence of some little Feline Fluffy *while occupying their own unit / week*.
> 
> A dog bite sustained by another owner (...or guest, renter, employee, or vendor) while legitimately on property? I can hear the "Ka-Chings" as the cash register sings.
> 
> Can you say "treble damages"? Winning such cases and associated settlements is child's play, so why knowingly create any such HOA risk and exposure in the first place?



I see this arguement put forward in theory all the time but have never actually seen a legitimate case. While possible it's also unlikely.

So, are you also suggesting all resorts remove swimming pools due to the Cha-Ching! liability potential? Most resorts don't even have life guards.


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## dougp26364 (Oct 27, 2014)

theo said:


> Not to even mention the *legal* and / or *settlement* costs to the timeshare HOA when some innocent timeshare (...but not pet) owner inevitably has severe allergic reactions requiring medical attention --- because of the prior week-long presence of some little Feline Fluffy *while occupying their own unit / week*.
> 
> A dog bite sustained by another owner (...or guest, renter, employee, or vendor) while legitimately on property? I can hear the "Ka-Chings" as the cash register sings.
> 
> Can you say "treble damages"? Winning such cases and associated settlements is child's play, so why knowingly create any such HOA risk and exposure in the first place?



I think your arguement is somewhat irrational. 

Using your reasoning, all timeshares should get rid of pools and hot tubs due to the liability risk. Especially when you consider that they rarely have lifeguards. 

Why don't they? I think the answer is called insurance. Dogs can bite anyone, anytime, anywhere. When they do I'm sure there is some liablity somewhere and someone is going to pay. Most homeowners policies ask about pets when you purchase them. Some even exclude certain pets, some charge a surcharge if you own certain breeds of dog and some even refuse to write the policy. But most pets are covered under the liablity clause of your homeowners policy as I understand it. 

Maybe the resort would get drawn in but, in the end I think you'll find it's the owner responsible for the dog from a liability standpoint. 

As to allergins, yea, I get it. But I doubt there's a lot of grounds for liablity so long as the resort discloses itself as pet friendly. There are a lot of things people can have an allergic reaction to, not just pet dander. Some resorts allow smoking on balconies. At least one Colorado resort allows marijuana to be smoked on it's balconies. The allergy lawsuit theory really doesn't carry much weight.


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## theo (Oct 28, 2014)

dougp26364 said:


> Using your reasoning, all timeshares should get rid of pools and hot tubs due to the liability risk. Especially when you consider that they rarely have lifeguards.



Sorry, but that's not at all a logical or applicable analogy. People knowingly and willfully *choose* to assume any potential risks which may be associated with entering a pool or a hot tub at a timeshare facility --- with pertinent warnings regarding potential "risks" (and a liability disclaimer) usually very prominently and permanently posted there). Iinsurance may be be applicable to "cover" some amenity use issues --- at least in the absence of any overt acts of HOA negligence anyhow. 

However, people *don't* knowingly and willfully *choose* to become exposed against their will, to health hazards (e.g., allergens like animal dander) whose presence they cannot even see, since "Fluffy" is no longer physically present. Only "Fluffy"'s unwelcome dander aftermath still remains on site for the next lucky occupant to "enjoy".  

Moreover, you seem to conveniently overlook (or just willfully choose to ignore) the *ownership* aspect of a timeshare *unit*. An allergic owner has the indisputable right to *not* be exposed or subjected to health hazards (e.g., animal dander allergens) knowingly introduced to the interior of the unit / week that s/he *owns*. 

Fortunately, adoption of a "pet friendly" practice at any existing, independent timeshare facility would require a majority vote of the ownership vote in order to authorize such a radical change in policy. I know with the certainty of the sunrise "that ain't ever gonna happen" at any of the small, independent facilities at which we own time, so I don't know why I would be personally concerned or worried --- or even bothering to identify and discuss the relevant facts or potential pitfalls on this subject. 



> The allergy lawsuit theory really doesn't carry much weight.



You can't possibly be serious in making such an absurd statement. It's not a "theory"; it is a simple fact of life in litigious modern day America. You might want to find a legal reference somewhere and look up the term "treble damages", then come back here and try to state with a straight face that a huge medical bill and associated, compensable (but entirely avoidable) "pain and suffering" award (the direct consequence and result of overt but avoidable HOA negiligence) --- and all the time and legal costs incurred on both sides of the inevitable litigation "really doesn't carry much weight". Then again, maybe you're just pulling my leg with such a ridiculous statement? Maybe it's just offered in jest, in a 'tongue in cheek' attempt at humor?  

For the record, I've had dogs my entire life (although admittedly, I greatly dislike cats). I don't personally have any allergies. German Shepherds are my favorite breed, despite their high-maintenance nature. That much clearly stated, sitting on a timeshare BOD / HOA and having several decades of legal background, experience and observations perhaps combine to give me a slightly different (maybe even biased) perspective. I won't try to "convert" you to my way of thinking, but please don't insult my input by so casually dismissing its' indisputable reality with "it really doesn't carry much weight". You would be very surprised, maybe shocked, if you witnessed first hand just how much weight these kinds of situations can carry (and cost) in a court case. A "many zeros" judgement or settlement could seriously jeopardize the financial viability of a small, independent resort; its' HOA  would be clearly irresponsible and outright negligent to ever allow any such unnecessary exposure and vulnerability. 

In any event, I respect the health and well being of all my other fellow (...albeit non-pet people) timeshare owners and  I fully respect the fact that they just want to use and enjoy their facility *without* Fido or Fluffy (or their residual aftermath; visible, olfactory or otherwise) on site at any time for any reason --- even momentarily.


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## BocaBoy (Oct 28, 2014)

dougp26364 said:


> People are allergic to more than pets. Be careful going down that road. The next thing you know a lot more than pets could be banned.



The problem with pets (like smoking) is that the allergens remain after the guest has checked out.  When combined with the maintenance cost issue, banning pets is a no-brainer for me.


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## dougp26364 (Oct 29, 2014)

BocaBoy said:


> The problem with pets (like smoking) is that the allergens remain after the guest has checked out.  When combined with the maintenance cost issue, banning pets is a no-brainer for me.



As to expense, that's solved with the pet fee. As to allergens, that's solved with proper cleaning, which is also paid for with the pet fee. If the resort allows pets it's their obligation and responsiblity to not only anticipate the additional cost in cleaning and charge appropriately but to make certain that the proper cleaning is done, and that includes laundering the bedspread, comforter and or duvet. If I were running a resort that was pet friendly or had pet friendly units, I'd make all units that are pet friendly carpet free and have all leather furniture as well. But that's just me. 

Banning pets is a no brainer to some because they don't want to spend time at a hotel or timeshare with pets, which is fine, I get that. All I'm saying is that there is a market for both but, when a timeshare allows pets, the must notify potential guests that they are pet friendly, even if it's pet friendly for owners only.

Now if you really want to go down the allergy issue, what do you suggest be done about the ADA requirement that service animals be allowed at all resorts? You'll never be completely animal free at any resort, even those that don't allow them. There is no such thing as a no-brainer for everyone, just individuals.


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## klpca (Oct 29, 2014)

dougp26364 said:


> As to expense, that's solved with the pet fee. As to allergens, that's solved with proper cleaning, which is also paid for with the pet fee. If the resort allows pets it's their obligation and responsiblity to not only anticipate the additional cost in cleaning and charge appropriately but to make certain that the proper cleaning is done, and that includes laundering the bedspread, comforter and or duvet. If I were running a resort that was pet friendly or had pet friendly units, I'd make all units that are pet friendly carpet free and have all leather furniture as well. But that's just me.
> 
> Banning pets is a no brainer to some because they don't want to spend time at a hotel or timeshare with pets, which is fine, I get that. All I'm saying is that there is a market for both but, when a timeshare allows pets, the must notify potential guests that they are pet friendly, even if it's pet friendly for owners only.
> 
> Now if you really want to go down the allergy issue, what do you suggest be done about the ADA requirement that service animals be allowed at all resorts? You'll never be completely animal free at any resort, even those that don't allow them. There is no such thing as a no-brainer for everyone, just individuals.



My concern is that the pet fee isn't going to cover the actual costs.


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## dougp26364 (Oct 29, 2014)

klpca said:


> My concern is that the pet fee isn't going to cover the actual costs.



A legitimate concern but, that's a different discussion. That one has to be taken up with the owners and the HOA in the form of, where is the money going and what "extra" cleaning is the money buying. Exchangers can only decided to, or not to, exchange into pet friendly resorts. 

For now all we can hope for, ask or demand is that resorts that allow pets make it known that pets will be at the resort. That way one can make a decision to visit or not to visit that resort. If you have a concern the real extra cleaning gets done then a pet friendly resort should likely be avoided.


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## dougp26364 (Oct 29, 2014)

theo said:


> Sorry, but that's not at all a logical or applicable analogy. People knowingly and willfully *choose* to assume any potential risks which may be associated with entering a pool or a hot tub at a timeshare facility --- with pertinent warnings regarding potential "risks" (and a liability disclaimer) usually very prominently and permanently posted there). Iinsurance may be be applicable to "cover" some amenity use issues --- at least in the absence of any overt acts of HOA negligence anyhow.
> 
> However, people *don't* knowingly and willfully *choose* to become exposed against their will, to health hazards (e.g., allergens like animal dander) whose presence they cannot even see, since "Fluffy" is no longer physically present. Only "Fluffy"'s unwelcome dander aftermath still remains on site for the next lucky occupant to "enjoy".
> 
> ...



All of this and I'll try to take it down to bite size pieces.

1. Pets exist. Hotels allow pets and a few timeshares allow pets. They have pet policies to protect them in the same way they have policies for other amenities (pools, fitness rooms, spa's et...) where potential liablity exists. Because risk is all around us the arguement of liablity is a non-starter. 

2. You are relatively self assured if you believe you will always be in the majority and that none of the timeshare resorts you own at could ever become pet friendly. At one time smokers were in the majority. Now I would venture to say the majority of timeshares and hotels in America are non-smoking. You use to be able to smoke on airplanes because smokers were the majority. Times change, rules change and people change. 

3. Why do I have to keep saying it's very important that resorts which are pet friendly must notify potential guest or have it somewhere in the reservation process? The only way a guest could say they didn't know is if they weren't told. If they aren't told, then I'm in agreement with you, there could be a liablity issue. 

4. I would argue an allergic owner has no undisputable rights other than those agreed to in the original contract signed with the resort. If that contract gives resort management the right to change rules under certain conditions, the individual owners rights go out the window. In the case of timeshare, majority often rules. The reality is that, in society, there are very few undisputable rights for an individual. 

5. The damages you claim are possible have to prove *negligence *on the part of the resort. Who is negligent? The pet owner who did not control their pet or the resort, which has specific rules in place directing pet owners? As to the expenses of such a case, that would likely be passed onto the insurance company, which undoubtedly will increase their rates based on their view of the risks involved. This isn't likely to affect the overall financial health of the resort. I have no legal background but I don't have background in liability. 

I guess we might disagree on who owns a resort? The timeshare owners or the management company. It is my belief that owners have the deeded right to occupy space at the resort and the management company essentially owns the rest. owners own deeded occupancy rights. They do not own real property. Only through deeded occupancy rights is there any claim available should the property be sold or destroyed at some point in the future. Therefore owners may not have all the rights you assume past those granted them in the original contract, which likely includes a provision to make changes in the rules if certain conditions are met, including but not limited to smoking, pets and provided amenties at the resort.  A resort I own at in CO recently ammended their rules, without my knowingly voting for/against it, to allow marijuna to be smoked on balconies. 

Reality is what it is. Neither of us are completely right or completely wrong. The reality is some resorts allow pets, some don't. It's important to know which do allow pets so no one is "unknowingly" exposed to allergens. People choose hotels based on pet policy. It needs to be the same with timeshare.


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## Laurie (Oct 29, 2014)

fwiw, most timeshares in Europe (that we've been to) do allow pets, and I think hotels too. It's the normal there.


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## hk4481 (Nov 15, 2014)

I certainly hope they don't start to allow pets in timeshares because I am terribly allergic to cats & dogs - I break out in hives, my eyes itch & swell, and I close up and can't breathe.  It's tough enough that I have to look for hotels that don't allow pets, I hope I don't have to do the same for condos.


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## laurac260 (Nov 18, 2014)

*Mixed feelings about this...*

I am not the biggest dog lover in the world.  Don't get me wrong, I don't dislike dogs, in fact we have an adorable 7 month old Soft Coated Wheaten Terrier that has totally worked her way into the hearts of this family.  Before we had her, my motto was, "I love OTHER PEOPLE'S dogs."  Meaning, I don't necessarily need one of my own.  Alas, I was outnumbered. Thankfully we found a dog that fits right in to our family dynamic.  But I can say, with much honesty, that I don't find everyone's little scruffy as adorable as THEY do.  And I appreciate that there are folks that don't find my little scruffy as adorable as we do, despite the fact that she is pretty darn cute.  

Some folks are afraid of dogs.  Some folks are allergic to dogs, and some just hate dogs, for whatever reason.  My kids are allergic to dogs (the breed we have is considered to be of the hypo allergenic variety, but most are not).  Many dog breeds cause my daughter's asthma to flair up.  

Part of me is sad that we cannot take our little doggie on our trips, and part of me is thankful that YOU can't take your little doggie on our trips.  It cuts both ways. 

 Just my humble opinion, for what it's worth.


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## laurac260 (Nov 18, 2014)

hk4481 said:


> I certainly hope they don't start to allow pets in timeshares because I am terribly allergic to cats & dogs - I break out in hives, my eyes itch & swell, and I close up and can't breathe.  It's tough enough that I have to look for hotels that don't allow pets, I hope I don't have to do the same for condos.


Sometime in the past few years I recall checking in to a hotel, only to find out they were "pet friendly".  I asked the front desk person to make sure she put us in a room that had not been pet occupied, assuming that they would control these rooms as the smoking rooms had been controlled in the past.  I was quite disappointed to learn that this was not the case.  

Kind of like nut allergies, I remember not really cluing in to it, until we learned our son is allergic to tree nuts.  There's inconveniences, and there are "life threatening issues".  For me, being in a hotel room that had once had a dog is at worst, an inconvenience.  For others, it is potentially life threatening.


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## Egret1986 (Nov 18, 2014)

*I'm in the same camp.*



laurac260 said:


> I am not the biggest dog lover in the world.  Don't get me wrong, I don't dislike dogs, in fact we have an adorable 7 month old Soft Coated Wheaten Terrier that has totally worked her way into the hearts of this family.  Before we had her, my motto was, "I love OTHER PEOPLE'S dogs."  Meaning, I don't necessarily need one of my own.  Alas, I was outnumbered. Thankfully we found a dog that fits right in to our family dynamic.  But I can say, with much honesty, that I don't find everyone's little scruffy as adorable as THEY do.  And I appreciate that there are folks that don't find my little scruffy as adorable as we do, despite the fact that she is pretty darn cute.
> 
> Some folks are afraid of dogs.  Some folks are allergic to dogs, and some just hate dogs, for whatever reason.  My kids are allergic to dogs (the breed we have is considered to be of the hypo allergenic variety, but most are not).  Many dog breeds cause my daughter's asthma to flair up.
> 
> ...



Everything you said sum's up my feelings.  Everything. 

On first read of the changes to the pet policy; cool.

But after reading the opinions on the thread; what were they thinking?


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## Egret1986 (Nov 18, 2014)

*Yes, I guess it's all about "cluing in".*



laurac260 said:


> Sometime in the past few years I recall checking in to a hotel, only to find out they were "pet friendly".  I asked the front desk person to make sure she put us in a room that had not been pet occupied, assuming that they would control these rooms as the smoking rooms had been controlled in the past.  I was quite disappointed to learn that this was not the case.
> 
> Kind of like nut allergies, I remember not really cluing in to it, until we learned our son is allergic to tree nuts.  There's inconveniences, and there are "life threatening issues".  For me, being in a hotel room that had once had a dog is at worst, an inconvenience.  For others, it is potentially life threatening.



Yes, I'm surprised, as far as hotels and timeshares that allow pets, that there aren't dedicated rooms and units that are "pet friendly" vs. all rooms and units allowing for pets.


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## silentg (Apr 29, 2015)

We stayed at a hotel on I95 in Virginia, we saw it was pet friendly. We asked for a room that had not been occupied by pets. The room was very nice. On our return trip we were put on the same floor a few doors down from the previous room. We saw a man going in to the room we had at first trip with a dog!   At least our rooms were clean, with no detection of pets being in there, I was upset that they told me certain rooms were kept pet free. Just told me what I wanted to hear!
TerryC


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## Egret1986 (May 9, 2015)

*Another group of resorts that I own at in Virginia Beach just sent out a survey.*

Hello Valued Owner,

VSA Resorts is conducting a survey, and your response would be appreciated. This survey is to obtain your feedback regarding pet friendly units being added to all three of the Resorts.


Here is a link to the survey:
https://www.surveymonkey.com/s.aspx?sm=H3D0DlFUl55EGT3ltCaXEw_3d_3d

This link is uniquely tied to this survey and your email address. Please do not forward this message.


Thanks for your participation!

I haven't opened the survey yet.  There is one other timeshare resort, The Colony, that allows owners "only" to bring pets for the week.


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