# Changes coming to VIP



## dr_adventure

From an update I just got 

"So, for the first time in 16 years- we are adding enhancements to the VIP Program. More information will be coming to you this week regarding added benefits!

The Wyndham VIP Program will be raising the bar for new members to become eligible for the program-and you'll notice higher point level requirements for the three tiers of ownership. Also, there will be a bunch of new benefits, with a February 2012 Launch!"

Here are the new levels - 

Ownership Tier: VIP 
(entry level-being renamed SIlver VIP)
Current VIP Level 300,000 to 499,000 points
Future VIP Level-CLUB WYNDHAM Silver: 400,000 to 699,999 

Ownership Tier: VIP GOLD
Current VIP GOLD Level 500,000 to 999,000 points
Future VIP GOLD Level 700,000 to 999,999 points

Ownership Tier VIP PLATINUM
Current VIP PLATINUM 1,000,000+
Future VIP PLATINUM 1,000,000+

Not sure what the new benefits are (of if they really will be benefits).  But it is interesting that they appear to be making it more difficult for sales folks to use - YOU'll be VIP for folks who buy a small piece and get bonus points - which is probably good.


----------



## rrlongwell

dr_adventure said:


> From an update I just got
> 
> "So, for the first time in 16 years- we are adding enhancements to the VIP Program. More information will be coming to you this week regarding added benefits!
> 
> The Wyndham VIP Program will be raising the bar for new members to become eligible for the program-and you'll notice higher point level requirements for the three tiers of ownership. Also, there will be a bunch of new benefits, with a February 2012 Launch!"
> 
> Here are the new levels -
> 
> Ownership Tier: VIP
> (entry level-being renamed SIlver VIP)
> Current VIP Level 300,000 to 499,000 points
> Future VIP Level-CLUB WYNDHAM Silver: 400,000 to 699,999
> 
> Ownership Tier: VIP GOLD
> Current VIP GOLD Level 500,000 to 999,000 points
> Future VIP GOLD Level 700,000 to 999,999 points
> 
> Ownership Tier VIP PLATINUM
> Current VIP PLATINUM 1,000,000+
> Future VIP PLATINUM 1,000,000+
> 
> Not sure what the new benefits are (of if they really will be benefits).  But it is interesting that they appear to be making it more difficult for sales folks to use - YOU'll be VIP for folks who buy a small piece and get bonus points - which is probably good.



Bonus points have always VIP Elligable points.  The sales pitch on Wyndham raising the bar for VIP Status has been around for awhile in the Sales Pitches.  For what it is worth, that may very well happen at some point.  In its orginal form, it was supposed to be in 2011.  There is an upcoming Property Owners Association meeting for the Fairshare Trust.  I do not know if the subject will be coming up or not.  The pitch was to buy before the bar is raised to be grandfathered in for VIP purposes.


----------



## Dedibble

rrlongwell said:


> Bonus points have always VIP Elligable points.  The sales pitch on Wyndham raising the bar for VIP Status has been around for awhile in the Sales Pitches.  For what it is worth, that may very well happen at some point.  In its orginal form, it was supposed to be in 2011.  There is an upcoming Property Owners Association meeting for the Fairshare Trust.  I do not know if the subject will be coming up or not.  The pitch was to buy before the bar is raised to be grandfathered in for VIP purposes.



Well that was the "pitch" we got in south Florida the first week of January.  I tell ya' Wyndham is running out of Blue Sky to sale!  When we were discussing the options for us to move on up to Platinum they told us we need to hurry because they will be changing it from a minimum of a million points to 1.2 million.  We aren't ready to invest more at this time so we didn't " bite"


----------



## vacationhopeful

Heard the same lower numbers. Did not hear the Platimum 1.2 million. Refused to do an update as stalker salesman from Thanksgiving trip still employed here.
 You all remember him involving 2 cops and 7hours of my life from 11:45 til almost 7am while he hid inbushes outside her apt?
Guess after all the upping the unit point costs over the years, you almost have to be VIP to book a unit in a Prime week.:ignore:


----------



## Carol C

I like how they use "enhancements" when there's nothing in it apparently for customers. They must be learning those sales pitches from RCI with all their "enhancements"!


----------



## rrlongwell

vacationhopeful said:


> ... Did not hear the Platimum 1.2 million ... Guess after all the upping the unit point costs over the years, you almost have to be VIP to book a unit in a Prime week.:ignore:



I have heard the 1.2 Million as a reason for me to upgrade my Platium membership. That is what I would need to maintain Platinum.


----------



## ace2000

Hold onto your wallets Wyndham owners! It's another year, so Wyndham will be trying to come up with another concept to soak owners and make more profits. 

Wyndham is all about pleasing the shareholders, and you don't please the shareholders unless you're making more and more profits.


----------



## rrlongwell

ace2000 said:


> ... Wyndham is all about pleasing the shareholders, and you don't please the shareholders unless you're making more and more profits.



Called Owner Care at Corporate Wyndham, they said they believed the points needed for VIP are goinig up but they have not been notified of the effective date yet.


----------



## dcdowden

The last time I heard the pitch that VIP point levels were going up was back when Fairfield was becoming Wyndham. The only enhanced benefit I have ever seen with VIP was the addition of a local newspaper on weekends when USA Today is not published.  We generally don't do updates anymore, but we did go to a VIP Platinum couple day event at Glacier Canyon last fall. Nobody said anything about point levels going up at that time. They were pushing Club Wyndham Access.
Doug


----------



## Timeshare Von

"Just say NO !!"


----------



## rrlongwell

According to the Marketing Staff at National Habor, the E-Mail raising points for VIP has been received and they have been told to let the guests know to get them over to buy additional timeshares.  If anyone is at Wyndham resorts this weekend, it would be great if they checked with the Marketing Staff to see what they are saying on this point.


----------



## SOS8260456

Everytime Wyndham gives VIP's enhancements, it is always more like a demotion.

Lisa

PS It's February 2012 now, where are the "enhancements"?


----------



## Kozman

*VIP Levels Increasing?*

The threat of VIP point levels going up has been around for many years.  I remember a salesman showing us an official looking 'memo' back around 2002 stating VIP levels were going up.  Never happened.  I'll believe it when I see it.  In the meantime, no updates for me no matter how many gifts they want to bring to my room!


----------



## dr_adventure

rrlongwell said:


> Bonus points have always VIP Elligable points.  The sales pitch on Wyndham raising the bar for VIP Status has been around for awhile in the Sales Pitches.  For what it is worth, that may very well happen at some point.  In its orginal form, it was supposed to be in 2011.  There is an upcoming Property Owners Association meeting for the Fairshare Trust.  I do not know if the subject will be coming up or not.  The pitch was to buy before the bar is raised to be grandfathered in for VIP purposes.



I had not heard about it - and did owner updates in Dec and Jan.  And yes bonus points have been eligible that is the point - they will either have to offer more or those initial smaller sales will not get someone the VIP - which is a teaser they use.


----------



## dr_adventure

Dedibble said:


> changing it from a minimum of a million points to 1.2 million. "



Guess they decided not to go to that level


----------



## dr_adventure

SOS8260456 said:


> Everytime Wyndham gives VIP's enhancements, it is always more like a demotion.
> 
> Lisa
> 
> PS It's February 2012 now, where are the "enhancements"?



This is my fear as well and I too wondered why the "enhancements" were not announced at the same time.  Usually a sign that the enhancements are not ones I'm going to like.


----------



## lprstn

So I guess current VIP owners will not be grandfathered in. This is another reson why I will never buy through the developer again


----------



## jjmanthei05

dr_adventure said:


> From an update I just got
> 
> "So, for the first time in 16 years- we are adding enhancements to the VIP Program. More information will be coming to you this week regarding added benefits!
> 
> The Wyndham VIP Program will be raising the bar for new members to become eligible for the program-and you'll notice higher point level requirements for the three tiers of ownership. Also, there will be a bunch of new benefits, with a February 2012 Launch!"
> 
> Here are the new levels -
> 
> Ownership Tier: VIP
> (entry level-being renamed SIlver VIP)
> Current VIP Level 300,000 to 499,000 points
> Future VIP Level-CLUB WYNDHAM Silver: 400,000 to 699,999
> 
> Ownership Tier: VIP GOLD
> Current VIP GOLD Level 500,000 to 999,000 points
> Future VIP GOLD Level 700,000 to 999,999 points
> 
> Ownership Tier VIP PLATINUM
> Current VIP PLATINUM 1,000,000+
> Future VIP PLATINUM 1,000,000+
> 
> Not sure what the new benefits are (of if they really will be benefits).  But it is interesting that they appear to be making it more difficult for sales folks to use - YOU'll be VIP for folks who buy a small piece and get bonus points - which is probably good.



When did you get this because the Wyndham website still shows old/current point values for VIP...

Jason


----------



## lprstn

My friend just went to owners update on sat and they showed her a copy of this promo. I told her to call owners services


----------



## massvacationer

I'm thinking that this is another example of why the best plan, for most folks, is to *just buy resale*, enjoy nice vacations, and don't worry about the info that is propagated by the Sales Department.


----------



## rrlongwell

jjmanthei05 said:


> When did you get this because the Wyndham website still shows old/current point values for VIP...
> 
> Jason



Per Wyndham, the Official Announcement will come tomorrow.  The people with current VIP status will be grandfathered.


----------



## jjmanthei05

I contacted Ken Bradshaw at Wyndham Corporate Direct. He confirmed the levels stated earlier and platinum staying at 1 million with an implementation date of October 2012. Also he said that current VIP would be grandfathered in. He sent me a PDF of the changes(attached below). He has been straight forward with me in the past so I tend to put a little more credence with what he says compared to sales at the resorts. 

Jason


----------



## rrlongwell

jjmanthei05 said:


> I contacted Ken Bradshaw at Wyndham Corporate Direct. He confirmed the levels stated earlier and platinum staying at 1 million with an implementation date of October 2012. Also he said that current VIP would be grandfathered in. He sent me a PDF of the changes(attached below). He has been straight forward with me in the past so I tend to put a little more credence with what he says compared to sales at the resorts.
> 
> Jason
> 
> View attachment 1064



Agreed Corporate Sales and Owner Care tend to be much more reliable than the Sales Staff.  Great detective work.  I clicked on the link, it came up as an invalid link.  Could you cut and paste the content and post?


----------



## jjmanthei05

rrlongwell said:


> Agreed Corporate Sales and Owner Care tend to be much more reliable than the Sales Staff.  Great detective work.  I clicked on the link, it came up as an invalid link.  Could you cut and paste the content and post?



I edited the link and it looks like it worked this time. 

Jason


----------



## rrlongwell

jjmanthei05 said:


> I edited the link and it looks like it worked this time.
> 
> Jason



Thanks. Got it.  From the way they worded it, maybe existing members that are not VIP Status but have VIP eligable points may be grandfathered also.  It talks in terms of "New Member".  That could be new members to Club Wyndham Plus/Access or new members to VIP Status.  I hope it is the former.


----------



## ronparise

rrlongwell said:


> Thanks. Got it.  From the way they worded it, maybe existing members that are not VIP Status but have VIP eligable points may be grandfathered also.  It talks in terms of "New Member".  That could be new members to Club Wyndham Plus/Access or new members to VIP Status.  I hope it is the former.



I think the vip eligible points will still be vip eligible but the new targets will apply

There was no mention in the link,  of any "enhancements"

Im betting the enhancement is nothing more than a false sense of exclusivity

Now that Im going to be grandfathered and get a new name  "silver"  (to match my hair) you would think that they will start delivering a USA today


----------



## bnoble

...or even a real newspaper!


----------



## dr_adventure

lprstn said:


> So I guess current VIP owners will not be grandfathered in. This is another reson why I will never buy through the developer again



I'm surprised they did it - but they did - the provide a grandfather piece - So I guess if you are thinking VIP silver or gold do it by Oct. 2012


----------



## learnalot

jjmanthei05 said:


> I contacted Ken Bradshaw at Wyndham Corporate Direct. He confirmed the levels stated earlier and platinum staying at 1 million with an implementation date of October 2012. Also he said that current VIP would be grandfathered in. He sent me a PDF of the changes(attached below). He has been straight forward with me in the past so I tend to put a little more credence with what he says compared to sales at the resorts.
> 
> Jason
> 
> View attachment 1065



Thanks Jason.


----------



## dr_adventure

*Additional Text from the e-mail*

I got the e-mail from Dan Griffith at Tahoe 

Here is the other text:

Dear Chris,

I just got back from President's Club Business meetings-and I have exciting new! As a point of contact for you and your ownership with Wyndham, I strive to bring you prompt information. In this regard, so that you can say you heard it already(and from me, first), Wyndham is rolling out new VIP levels! 

We are calling it "The good life", and the reason is simple, there are so many great benefits to being a VIP, and we want you and your family and friends to enjoy your Club Wyndham ownership even more. So, for the first time in 16 years- we are adding enhancements to the VIP Program. More information will be coming to you this week regarding added benefits!

The Wyndham VIP Program will be raising the bar for new members to become eligible for the program-and you'll notice higher point level requirements for the three tiers of ownership. Also, there will be a bunch of new benefits, with a February 2012 Launch!

Already a VIP member? There's no need to worry-you'll be grandfathered into the new tier levels! We know that you'll enjoy the increased exclusivity and visibility of the program, to boot!


That is all I know - if I get info on the new benefits I'll post.


----------



## rrlongwell

ronparise said:


> ... you would think that they will start delivering a USA today



Or the weekend local daily paper as the case may be and at National Habor, maybe they will let all VIP Platium/Gold members request a specific room.


----------



## jjmanthei05

I got off the phone with Ken and here is what he said are the new benefits which he himself said wasn't much. The names and exact benefits may vary slightly but this is the general overview of it. 

VIPeek: Get VIP feedback/suggestions on upcoming programs and enhancements.
VIP branded merchandise:
VIP Now: Short term discounts/deals with Wyndham and affiliated partners. 

He said any current level of VIP would be maintained but to upgrade after October you would need to be purchased to the new point levels whether a new or current owner. 

Jason


----------



## dr_adventure

jjmanthei05 said:


> VIP Now: Short term discounts/deals with Wyndham and affiliated partners.



This sounds interesting.


----------



## am1

ronparise said:


> I think the vip eligible points will still be vip eligible but the new targets will apply
> 
> There was no mention in the link,  of any "enhancements"
> 
> Im betting the enhancement is nothing more than a false sense of exclusivity
> 
> Now that Im going to be grandfathered and get a new name  "silver"  (to match my hair) you would think that they will start delivering a USA today



When did you make the jump to VIP? and what incentive did they give you to buy 385k?  It seems like you would do 300k, 500k or 1 million.  Is there a master strategy I am unaware of?


----------



## e.bram

What surprises me the most are all the TUGGERs who are VIP members(where this is pertinent,and willing to admit it) having bought retail from the developer. Are not TUGGERs resale buyers?

PS. I bought resale, and for me this is not an issue, happily.


----------



## vacationhopeful

We all have little secrets. 

Next you might want to know my tax bracket. :ignore:


----------



## rrlongwell

e.bram said:


> What surprises me the most are all the TUGGERs who are VIP members(where this is pertinent,and willing to admit it) having bought retail from the developer. Are not TUGGERs resale buyers?
> 
> PS. I bought resale, and for me this is not an issue, happily.



I am not surprised, I have suspected for a long time that a lot of Tugers are VIP members, even at least some of which recommend no retail purchases.  If one were a cynic .... (self censered before I say something I should not).  Remember the old saying, "Do as I say and not as I do".  From a battle scared retail buyer, I do not regret it.  As far as I can tell a lot of the Tugers are re-sale sellers or they rent units.


----------



## rrlongwell

vacationhopeful said:


> We all have little secrets.
> 
> Next you might want to know my tax bracket. :ignore:



Probably do not need to ask.  I would assume 15 percent on investment income.


----------



## rrlongwell

am1 said:


> When did you make the jump to VIP? and what incentive did they give you to buy 385k?  It seems like you would do 300k, 500k or 1 million.  Is there a master strategy I am unaware of?



Ron is right, following Linda's lead makes sense in some circumstances.


----------



## SOS8260456

One method of being VIP inexpensively was utilizing Fairfield's PIC program.  I say Fairfield because by the time Wyndham came along, the program started to be limited.  Many many years ago, you could have unlimited PIC weeks as long as you made a coresponding corporate purchase.  The more weeks you PICed, the less additional points you had to buy.  I don't know the exact numbers, but it was something like 77K for the first pic week, then and additional 49K for the 2nd PIC week, and then 26K for the 3rd, and again 26K for the 4th, etc.  With a PIC week you get credit for so many Fairfield points based on season and size, so obviously if you are going to PIC a week, go for the 3 bedroom red season (also, didn't have to be prime red, shoulder red would do).   A 3 bedroom red week PIC's for 254,000 Fairfield points.  So by making the minimum purchase and picing 3 3 bedroom red weeks, boom, VIP plat.  I remember hearing of one person PICing 14 3 bedroom red units.  This person is a very nice person who lives in Wyndham year round and is probably what is considered a "mega-renter".

I think the rules now are that you can PIC a max of 2 weeks. SO, if you are going to go this route, make sure you get the best bang for your buck.

I also know at one time they were considering not allowing PIC weeks to count toward VIP levels.  For all I know, that might even be the case now.

Lisa


----------



## rrlongwell

dr_adventure said:


> ... The Wyndham VIP Program will be raising the bar for new members to become eligible for the program-and you'll notice higher point level requirements for the three tiers of ownership ...



WARNING:  This sales rep is indicating new point levels for all three VIP levels.  It appears what is shapping up is new point levels for VIP and VIP Gold.  VIP Platium appears to be remaining the same for now.  In other words, if you are going to Platinum, you do not need to buy additional timeshares by October.


----------



## SOS8260456

I think most experienced Tuggers will say buy resale, unless it makes sense to do otherwise and otherwise opportunities are very very few and far between.  I know I have heard of pre-construction Marriott prices being good deals.  I can't think of any other situations off the top of my head.  But it all comes down to doing your research and getting your ducks in order before taking that developer plunge if that is what will get you what you want.

I know with some systems they would convert all of your resale points to developer points if you made a developer purchase.  So, in this case, make sure you have your million Wyndham resale points lined up before you make that small developer purchase.  Just kidding, they aren't allowed to do things like this anymore.  

Lisa

Disclosure:  We are VIP plat by PICing 3 resale red 3 bedrooms and we enjoy it.  We worked with a salesperson when doing the purchase in order to make sure the PIC weeks qualified for the program before we purchased the PIC weeks.


----------



## antjmar

*Typo on provided letter?*

Letter says in late October 2012 increase in all three tiers for VIP yet show the same amount of points for platinum. 
Maybe it is supposed to be 1.2 million.


----------



## antjmar

rrlongwell said:


> WARNING:  This sales rep is indicating new point levels for all three VIP levels.  It appears what is shapping up is new point levels for VIP and VIP Gold.  VIP Platium appears to be remaining the same for now.  In other words, if you are going to Platinum, you do not need to buy additional timeshares by October.



It also says you are grandfathered so no need to buy more unless you want to go to next tier.


----------



## rrlongwell

antjmar said:


> It also says you are grandfathered so no need to buy more unless you want to go to next tier.



Yes that is my understanding at this point in what is emerging.  It is my understanding from my latest conversation with Wyndham that Platium remains at 1 million.  You are correct in the mis match between the posted words and numbers.  I guess we wait and see which one was right.


----------



## ronparise

am1 said:


> When did you make the jump to VIP? and what incentive did they give you to buy 385k?  It seems like you would do 300k, 500k or 1 million.  Is there a master strategy I am unaware of?



My strategy involved a lot of luck (good luck on my part, bad luck on the sellers)
I got my points from a dead guy


----------



## am1

ronparise said:


> My strategy involved a lot of luck (good luck on my part, bad luck on the sellers)
> I got my points from a dead guy



Its better to be lucky than good.  I would buy enough in an equity trade to get one contract at 500k.  Makes it more official and the discounts are better.


----------



## rrlongwell

am1 said:


> Its better to be lucky than good.  I would buy enough in an equity trade to get one contract at 500k.  Makes it more official and the discounts are better.



That is what some Wyndham Salespeople call a Gold Power Deed.


----------



## bnoble

> If one were a cynic ....


It's also possible that some regret the decision in hindsight, but still wish to get the most out of having made that purchase in the past.  But, yes, some of us are resale-only purchasers, of Wyndham and elsewhere.


----------



## antjmar

ronparise said:


> I got my points from a dead guy


Ron, does he have any more points available?   I am very interested. 

Seriously thats got to be a interesting story!


----------



## ronparise

The changes are coming


The note at the top of my Wyndham page has changed ..where it used to say
Welcome ...Club Wyndham Plus VIP Owner

now it says

Welcome Ronald J Parise 
CLUB WYNDHAM® Silver Owner


Deeper in the site is the same chart with new numbers that come into effect in October

also there is this note

*New! VIP Merchandise Collection
Access to purchase a variety of logoed merchandise to show off your VIP status.
Yes

New! CLUB WYNDHAM VIP Now Benefits	Yes*


So it looks like I can buy coffee Mugs with the Wyndham logo andWe still have to learn what the VIP Now Benefits are


----------



## rrlongwell

duplicate post, deleted


----------



## rrlongwell

ronparise said:


> ... The changes are coming ... in the site is the same chart with new numbers that come into effect in October
> 
> also there is this note
> 
> *New! VIP Merchandise Collection
> Access to purchase a variety of logoed merchandise to show off your VIP status.
> Yes
> 
> New! CLUB WYNDHAM VIP Now Benefits	Yes*



Called Owner Care today, they are still not releasing what the new benifits are or new point levels.  Where did you find the information above?

When you are on hold for reservations and Owner Care, they are both giving a message that the bar for VIP member will be raised.


----------



## jjmanthei05

Online learning looks to be updated with the new naming but same point values as before. 

Also listed under VIP silver.

New! VIPeek	
New! VIP Merchandise Collection
Access to purchase a variety of logoed merchandise to show off your VIP status. 
New! CLUB WYNDHAM VIP Now Benefits

*VIPeek participants are randomly selected.

Jason


----------



## jjmanthei05

dr_adventure said:


> ...  But it is interesting that they appear to be making it more difficult for sales folks to use...



I think going forward this makes it easier for sales to use for someone starting out of the gate. Currently it is easy for them (in relative terms) to get someone to VIP gold status. Initial buy of 154. Next purchase of similar to get you to VIP silver. After that it takes 200 to get you to VIP gold but then it will take a 500 point purchase to get you to platinum or more likely 2 - 250k purchases with one of those giving you no added benefit. So most people probably stop at the gold level. 

Now you get the initial buy in of 200 with bonus points to show the wonderful world of VIP next you get a 200 purchase to get them to VIP status then you need 2 - 300 point purchases to get them to platinum. It evens out the steps a little more to get them to the top tier. From Wyndham's perspective with the new system you give yourself a greater chance to get a 4th sale and more likely to get an extra 500,000 points in sales resulting in a $60,000-$100,000 in extra sales dollars. 

Jason


----------



## timeos2

More playing up the VIP ego while likely taking away any real benefits. 

"Pay us for a VIP Coffee Mug or Shirt and let the riff raft know YOU are truly special!  Yup, you alone (or anyone foolish /unlucky /uninformed enough to believe what we spew) can spend tens of thousands for the exact thing your fellow owners got for a $1 or less. You'd better feel superior or you wasted a ton of money to pay for our fancy cars!  On sale today just $45 + annual fee of $50 for washing"

VIP is a total crock. Don't ever buy Wyndham Retail now or you WILL regret it.


----------



## rrlongwell

ronparise said:


> The changes are coming ...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The VIP Line is releasing information on the VIP Changes.  They advise of the following:
> Existing VIP Status Grandfathered in.
> VIP and VIP Gold are the only two points levels changing.
> VIP  400,000
> Gold 600,000
> 
> The upgraded VIP features are:
> Perks by Club Wyndham Automatic Renewal
> Quarterly CEO Update E-Mail
> Merchandise Collection
> Annual VIP Cruising through Travel Department
> 
> Just found the on-line description of the new VIP changes:
> 
> https://www.wyndhamvacationresorts.com/ffr/member/services/benefits/program_benefits_vip.do
Click to expand...


----------



## massvacationer

rrlongwell said:


> ronparise said:
> 
> 
> 
> The changes are coming ...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The upgraded VIP features are:
> Perks by Club Wyndham Automatic Renewal
> Quarterly CEO Update E-Mail
> Merchandise Collection
> Annual VIP Cruising through Travel Department
> 
> Just found the on-line description of the new VIP changes:
> 
> https://www.wyndhamvacationresorts.com/ffr/member/services/benefits/program_benefits_vip.do
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> These "upgraded VIP features" seem (to put it diplomatically) very limited
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


----------



## dcdowden

There was nothing on the page describing any enhancements to the VIP program. It seems very odd just to announce the point levels being raised.
Doug


----------



## persia

They now will automatically take $49.95 a year out of your credit card for Perks by Wyndham membership, providing them with a steady income stream....



massvacationer said:


> rrlongwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ronparise said:
> 
> 
> 
> The changes are coming ...
> 
> 
> These "upgraded VIP features" seem (to put it diplomatically) very limited
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


----------



## persia

Cruising the Good Life – annual cruise for CLUB WYNDHAM Gold and Platinum Owners – (cruise is cash only)

CRUISE IS CASH ONLY, we don't take those point thingies here...


----------



## jjmanthei05

persia said:


> Cruising the Good Life – annual cruise for CLUB WYNDHAM Gold and Platinum Owners – (cruise is cash only)




Now VIP Gold owners can experience what the rest of us resale owners do. Being the bottom of the barrel. 

"Oh your only VIP gold...And under the old point system! The Horror. The Horror. I didn't even know they let your kind on here!" 

*Ok so that might be a little over dramatic but still funny...

Jason


----------



## ace2000

persia said:


> They now will automatically take $49.95 a year out of your credit card for Perks by Wyndham membership, providing them with a steady income stream....


 
Is that what a newspaper delivery to your front door costs?


----------



## timeos2

Vaguely Interesting Payer


----------



## dr_adventure

persia said:


> They now will automatically take $49.95 a year out of your credit card for Perks by Wyndham membership, providing them with a steady income stream....
> 
> 
> 
> massvacationer said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't see where they are going to take out $50 a year for this "benefit"
Click to expand...


----------



## Sandy VDH

I purchase resale (3 weeks) Fixed weeks then converted to points, but also did some PICs, and an equity trade for a resort with a huge SA and then purchased from Wyndham 160K all in one transaction to get VIP Platinum.   So it was calculated cost but worthwhile for me.  Can't do this anymore because of the change in rules, but I am glad I did it when I did it.


----------



## rrlongwell

Sandy Lovell said:


> I purchase resale (3 weeks) Fixed weeks then converted to points, but also did some PICs, and an equity trade for a resort with a huge SA and then purchased from Wyndham 160K all in one transaction to get VIP Platinum.   So it was calculated cost but worthwhile for me.  Can't do this anymore because of the change in rules, but I am glad I did it when I did it.



Congratulations on it working out.  The good news for re-sellers in Wyndhamland is that if Wyndham keeps taking back fixed weeks or converted fixed weeks bought re-sale and gives equity trades for them for VIP Status, that, over time, would tend to decrease the pool of re-sale units on the market.  This would hopefully increase the value of re-sale units.


----------



## jjmanthei05

*Maybe with the new program they are handing out VIP Memberships for free!*

I just got this email from Franz. It is says how he wants "me" to get the most out of my VIP membership. The only problem is I bought resale so I am approximately 300,000 points away from VIP. Did anyone else (non VIP types) get this? 

Jason


----------



## New2time

jjmanthei05 said:


> I just got this email from Franz. It is says how he wants "me" to get the most out of my VIP membership. The only problem is I bought resale so I am approximately 300,000 points away from VIP. Did anyone else (non VIP types) get this?
> 
> Jason
> 
> View attachment 1066



I got this same email- What's up?


----------



## rickandcindy23

We are VIP Platinum and got it cheaply.  I know how to do it, they are still doing it, and it's a great value.  So yes, I did buy from the developer, and no, I am not a negative person about VIP Platinum, when you do it cheaply.  

I wouldn't tell anyone to rescind a purchase with VIP Platinum going the way we did.  I have posted it here in the past, and people have pooh-poohed my way, saying it isn't possible anymore, but I know it absolutely is possible.  The salespeople only push this path to VIP in one resort area that I know about, but there may be others.


----------



## rrlongwell

New2time said:


> I got this same email- What's up?



One of the enhancements the VIP line indicated was going to be a E-Mail from the CEO Quarterly. If I remember from the last Annual Owners Meeting, they were going to do E-Mails up to four times a year anyway.  This is probably why it went out.


----------



## antjmar

jjmanthei05 said:


> I just got this email from Franz. It is says how he wants "me" to get the most out of my VIP membership. The only problem is I bought resale so I am approximately 300,000 points away from VIP. Did anyone else (non VIP types) get this?
> 
> Jason
> 
> View attachment 1066




I got it too, but I would be vip  if I hadnt bought resale.


----------



## ronparise

rickandcindy23 said:


> We are VIP Platinum and got it cheaply.  I know how to do it, they are still doing it, and it's a great value.  So yes, I did buy from the developer, and no, I am not a negative person about VIP Platinum, when you do it cheaply.
> 
> I wouldn't tell anyone to rescind a purchase with VIP Platinum going the way we did.  I have posted it here in the past, and people have pooh-poohed my way, saying it isn't possible anymore, but I know it absolutely is possible.  The salespeople only push this path to VIP in one resort area that I know about, but there may be others.



What way? What path?  What resort?

can you post a link to your prior posts on this topic?


----------



## persia

Unless there is a benefit change you pay for Perks if you are Silver.....



dr_adventure said:


> persia said:
> 
> 
> 
> They now will automatically take $49.95 a year out of your credit card for Perks by Wyndham membership, providing them with a steady income stream....
> 
> 
> 
> massvacationer said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't see where they are going to take out $50 a year for this "benefit"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


----------



## New2time

I just got a second email from Wyndham about my being VIP- 

http://media.wyndhamvo.com/insider/clubwyndham/2012/February/landing_vip.html

????


----------



## persia

I almost got this guy on eBay to agree to call himself my father in law, came close to a deal, but in the end he didn't agree before the auction ended.  



ronparise said:


> What way? What path?  What resort?
> 
> can you post a link to your prior posts on this topic?



The thing I've been offered twice at Glacier Canyon is they would take my resale dinged contracts, I would buy some more points and they would give me a totally new contract with the combined point total of my resale contracts plus the new points.  Not strictly kosher, but apparently doable.


----------



## timeos2

persia said:


> I almost got this guy on eBay to agree to call himself my father in law, came close to a deal, but in the end he didn't agree before the auction ended.
> 
> 
> 
> The thing I've been offered twice at Glacier Canyon is they would take my resale dinged contracts, I would buy some more points and they would give me a totally new contract with the combined point total of my resale contracts plus the new points.  Not strictly kosher, but apparently doable.



And IMO still WAY too much $ for extremely limited, non guaranteed & non-resellable "benefits ". You're way ahead with cheap/free resale points & proper use of the system. Then you can virtually give them away when you're done - no big loss.


----------



## rrlongwell

persia said:


> I almost got this guy on eBay to agree to call himself my father in law, came close to a deal, but in the end he didn't agree before the auction ended.
> 
> 
> 
> The thing I've been offered twice at Glacier Canyon is they would take my resale dinged contracts, I would buy some more points and they would give me a totally new contract with the combined point total of my resale contracts plus the new points.  Not strictly kosher, but apparently doable.



This is OK by Wyndham Sales Staff (not the father-in-law trick) I do not know why they do it sometimes and sometimes they do not.  One sales rep told me that the Sales Staff has lists of resort units they want back.  If you are lucky enough to own one or more of these units re-sale, I think that is when the offer is made.

An interesting challage to the TUG Owner and Moderator's.  How many have VIP Status with Wyndham or equilvanant Status with a competitor?  Denise and Brian:  Would you like to go 1st to set the example?


----------



## jjmanthei05

New2time said:


> I just got a second email from Wyndham about my being VIP-
> 
> http://media.wyndhamvo.com/insider/clubwyndham/2012/February/landing_vip.html
> 
> ????



The best part about that insider post is remove the "_Vip" from the address and see the change in the top section. Just funny to read... The weird thing about this is I have been getting wyndham rewards emails to my personal address which has the name William Kraft listed on them but I have no idea who that is. I wonder if that is why i am getting the VIP emails as well?

Jason


----------



## Culli

jjmanthei05 said:


> I just got this email from Franz. It is says how he wants "me" to get the most out of my VIP membership. The only problem is I bought resale so I am approximately 300,000 points away from VIP. Did anyone else (non VIP types) get this?
> 
> Jason
> 
> View attachment 1066



I had to dig through my deleted emails but yes I got the exact same email.  I signed on to my account and sadly I'm just a 651k pt lonely Club Wyndham Plus owner no vip


----------



## jjmanthei05

Culli said:


> I had to dig through my deleted emails but yes I got the exact same email.  I signed on to my account and sadly I'm just a 651k pt lonely Club Wyndham Plus owner no vip



It doesn't matter to much for you since you put all your points into RCI anyway...lol

Jason


----------



## Culli

jjmanthei05 said:


> It doesn't matter to much for you since you put all your points into RCI anyway...lol
> 
> Jason



Well not all of them but yes I did put a bunch into RCI :rofl:


----------



## DrBopp

*This is from the Wyndham Online Learning Center*

Home/ Help and Learn/ Online Learning Center/ Understanding Ownership

VIP BENEFITS AT A GLANCE
What is it?

Be sure to take full advantage of the exclusive benefits and enhanced service you receive as a CLUB WYNDHAM® Plus VIP. Refer to the VIP chart shown below for a complete listing and description of your benefits.

Show me

Exclusive Vacation Planning Benefits	CLUB WYNDHAM Silver Owner 
300,000 - 499,999 Points	CLUB WYNDHAM Gold Owner 
500,000 - 999,999 Points	CLUB WYNDHAM Platinum Owner 
1,000,000 Points or More
Points Discounts within 60 Days of Check-in1
25%	35%	50%
CLUB WYNDHAM Plus Resort Unit Upgrades/Instant Upgrade Feature1,3,8
Within 30 days of check-in date	Within 45 days of check-in date	Within 60 days of check-in date
Worldwide External Exchange Deposit Unit Size Upgrades (value & quiet demand deposits)1
 	Yes	Yes
RCI® Instant Search and Book Feature
Search and book with the amount of CLUB WYNDHAM Plus points immediately available in your account – without making a deposit.
 	Yes	Yes
Complimentary Guest Confirmations
Five (5)	10	15 per 1,000,000 eligible points4
Advance Reservation Policy - Associate Locations1
Two (2) times per year	Four (4) times per year	Unlimited
Reciprocal Advance Reservation Priority1,5,6
 	One (1) time per year	Two (2) times per year
Ability to Reserve Specific Units1,2
 	Yes	Yes
Adventures Trips
Yes	Yes	Yes
Extended PlusPartners® Booking Window1
 	 	10 months to 45 days in advance of travel date
Free Reservation Transactions
 	Yes	Yes
Points Credit Pool Extension
 	Up to six (6) months after Use Year Start Date	Up to nine (9) months after Use Year Start Date
Unlimited Housekeeping Credits
Yes	Yes	Yes
Special Benefits During Your Stay at Wyndham Vacation Resorts-managed locations!
Early Check-in (Starting at 2:00 p.m.)1,2,9
Yes	Yes	Yes
Midweek "Clean and Tidy"2,9
 	Yes	Yes
Exclusive VIP Check-in Area1,2,9
Yes	Yes	Yes
Complimentary USA Today every weekday a.m. and a local weekend newspaper1,2,9	 	Yes	Yes
Extra Benefits!
Extra Referral Rewards7
Received when your eligible CLUB WYNDHAM Referral joins the CLUB WYNDHAM Plus family.
$300 American Express Reward Card or 50,000 Wyndham Rewards Points	$300 American Express Reward Card or 50,000 Wyndham Rewards Points	$300 American Express Reward Card or 50,000 Wyndham Rewards Points
Exclusive Toll-Free Reservation Hotline
Yes	Yes	Yes
VIP ID Card
Yes	Yes	Yes
Resort Specials Notification
Yes	Yes	Yes
Avis® and Budget Benefits Package
 	Yes	Yes
CLUB WYNDHAM Plus Points Conversion to Maintenance Dollars
Up to six (6) months from Use Year Start Date	Up to nine (9) months from Use Year Start Date	All during the Use Year
Perks by CLUB WYNDHAM® Renewal
 	Yes	Yes
New! VIPeek10
Yes	Yes	Yes
New! VIP Merchandise Collection
Access to purchase a variety of logoed merchandise to show off your CLUB WYNDHAM VIP status.
Yes	Yes	Yes
New! CLUB WYNDHAM VIP Now Benefits
Yes	Yes	Yes
New! Cruising the Good Life (Annual VIP Cruise)11
 	Yes	Yes
New! Quarterly CEO Updates
 	 	Yes
1Subject to availability
2Available only at Wyndham Vacation Resorts-managed locations 
3Upgrades are available within the same resort only, limit of one (1) upgrade per reservation apply
4Eligible points are points associated with ownership interests purchased directly through Wyndham Vacation Resorts or its affiliates, Bonus Points and PIC Plus Points 
5The following holidays/special events are blacked out for this benefit: Easter/Spring Break, Fourth of July, Thanksgiving, Christmas, New Year's Eve and June through August at Myrtle Beach locations.
6Eligible Reciprocal resorts include non-CLUB WYNDHAM® Presidential Reserve Suites at UDI locations.
7Some states limit or prohibit participation in CLUB WYNDHAM Referrals.
8 Available only at CLUB WYNDHAM Plus Resorts.
9 Not applicable when a guest is traveling without the VIP Member.
10 VIPeek participants are randomly selected.
11 Cruise can only be redeemed through cash and not through use of points.
VIP Program Benefits are subject to change without notice.

Be wise

"Don't forget about your VIP benefit of receiving discounts on reservations booked 60 days or less from the check-in date. You will also receive this benefit when making reservations online!"
… from Adria, Vacation Planning Center Supervisor, Redmond, Washington


----------



## DrBopp

*Here's the link*

I apologize fot the bad link.... Didn't realize I was logged in when I posted. 



Gordon


----------



## Doug7856

I received the email regarding enhanced benefits this morning and wondered what enhancements I might be missing (154K resale) and I'm glad there's nothing that I'm interested in. I can't believe a quarterly email is listed as a benefit. Really, an email is a benefit. I think not.

I purchased my points from a member on TUG in 2010 and we've enjoyed our $400 purchase so far! Don't see any need for VIP status.


----------



## tugimsote

rrlongwell said:


> Thanks. Got it.  From the way they worded it, maybe existing members that are not VIP Status but have VIP eligable points may be grandfathered also.  It talks in terms of "New Member".  That could be new members to Club Wyndham Plus/Access or new members to VIP Status.  I hope it is the former.



If I purchase resale points will that make me eligible for any of the VPI levels? During one of their "presentations" a salesman told us that we could 'pass down' our points/vpi status to our heirs. Can Wyndham tell the difference between an heir or just a resale purchase?


----------



## timeos2

tugimsote said:


> If I purchase resale points will that make me eligible for any of the VPI levels? During one of their "presentations" a salesman told us that we could 'pass down' our points/vpi status to our heirs. Can Wyndham tell the difference between an heir or just a resale purchase?



No.

Yes. 

VIP is a joke - don't ever pay to get it as you'll NEVER get the cost back in the non-transferable and non-guaranteed "benefits".  You can get all the points you'll ever want or need virtually for free now on resale. No reason whatsoever to ever pay incredibly inflated price for retail points that are worth less than $.01 each the minute the rescind period ends. 

Don't fall for it. Look around for all the threads on the negative changes to the VIP program and the value of Wyndham points. They are at or near zero resale.  That despite the fact that it's a great system but poorly managed and the only way to get value is to go resale OR just rent.


----------



## Cheryl20772

I'm a 308K point vip and I still have not received any emails about these supposed changes.  I would have been livid if it's wasn't being reported that we would be grandfathered in to the new structure.

On another hand, this month I have recieved two different snail mail letters offering me preapproved loans of $25K to purchase additional "ownership interest".   

The interest rate being offered is anywhere between 11.49% to 17.99%.  The "lender" is listed as one of the following: Towers on the Grove, Reunion Grande and Villas, Emerald Grande, or Smugglers' Notch Management Company.  Sorry, though, I am not interested 

I continue to wonder why we didn't get this vip info email?  Thank goodness for TUG.  I won't have to stare slack mouthed if a sales rep later asks me if I know about the changes to VIP.


----------



## persia

90%+ of the points that have reached Ebay are already marked resale.  Once points are marked resale there is no way back, it can't be undone.  Transfer of points to relatives is possible and there are people who have lied about relationships and succeed in transferring points without getting the resale mark, but it really is questionable morally and legally.



tugimsote said:


> If I purchase resale points will that make me eligible for any of the VPI levels? During one of their "presentations" a salesman told us that we could 'pass down' our points/vpi status to our heirs. Can Wyndham tell the difference between an heir or just a resale purchase?


----------



## Cheryl20772

persia said:


> 90%+ of the points that have reached Ebay are already marked resale.  Once points are marked resale there is no way back, it can't be undone.  Transfer of points to relatives is possible and there are people who have lied about relationships and succeed in transferring points without getting the resale mark, but it really is questionable morally and legally.


Wyndham can and very well may require the new owner to present a death certificate and/or obituary showing the relationship for qualification for VIP inheritance.


----------



## rrlongwell

Cheryl20772 said:


> Wyndham can and very well may require the new owner to present a death certificate and/or obituary showing the relationship for qualification for VIP inheritance.



A couple of years ago, when I took over the Estate timeshares with Wyndham, I was required to provide the appropriate legal documents showing I was related.


----------



## vacationhopeful

Cheryl20772 said:


> Wyndham can and very well may require the new owner to present a death certificate and/or obituary showing the relationship for qualification for VIP inheritance.



I only have 1 word: *PHOTOSHOP*.


----------



## ace2000

vacationhopeful said:


> I only have 1 word: *PHOTOSHOP*.


 

I only have 1 word: *FRAUD*.


----------



## vacationhopeful

My intended point was that as a security measure, a document such as a newspaper clipping is NOT A SECURE GOVERNMENT DOCUMENT. If a business has a valuable feature passed on by secession of linage, it should require something that can not be generated by a 3rd grader and a printer.

rrlongwell's post about certified death certificates and wills probated by the courts is more likely used/required by a major corporation.


----------



## rickandcindy23

ace2000 said:


> I only have 1 word: *FRAUD*.



I agree, and the PCC's are doing something to get some of these transferred.  They make more money, if they can transfer VIP in the sale.  

But it is also not right that Wyndham sells the product and doesn't allow status in the transfer.  It devalues the product, while the salespeople are telling you how valuable it is.  How assinine! 

I always feel like playing the SNL game, "Really?  Really?  Oh, Really?" with the salespeople, when they tell you how much value this benefit has. 

"But the benefit is not transferrable?  Really?  I cannot sell this benefit, should I want out?  Really? So it's going to have no more value than the free eBay timeshares, if I resell?  Really?  Oh, Really?  Why would I buy from you then, I mean REALLY!"  

That word is so funny and seems to lose its meaning when used so many times.  :rofl:


----------



## jjmanthei05

The fun part would be to put a quantifiable number to VIP benefits because everything a VIP gets (besides the news paper) can be gotten with resale for an extra fee(Housekeeping and reservation transactions) or Extra points (early check-in, upgrades and discounts). I have been to lazy to sit down and figure out what would the maximum potential benefit you could get out of VIP and the ROI if nothing changed on the VIP side which we all have seen happens regularly. I think the best you could probably get out of it is maybe 10 to 15 years.

Jason


----------



## am1

rickandcindy23 said:


> But it is also not right that Wyndham sells the product and doesn't allow status in the transfer.  It devalues the product, while the salespeople are telling you how valuable it is.  How assinine!



If VIP transferred then everyone would be VIP.  Wyndham has the right to not let VIP transfer.  It does hurt people who do not know what they are getting into and then sell.  It is great for people who keep their ownership.

It separates resale and retail points.  Yes resale points sell for $1.  Points that are VIP eligible do not.  So when someone purchases retail they do not lose 90% of what they paid once the recession period is over.  This is one of many points that the anti-Wyndham VIP crowd on here do not get.


----------



## ace2000

wrong location...


----------



## jjmanthei05

am1 said:


> If VIP transferred then everyone would be VIP.  Wyndham has the right to not let VIP transfer.  It does hurt people who do not know what they are getting into and then sell.  It is great for people who keep their ownership.
> 
> It separates resale and retail points.  Yes resale points sell for $1.  Points that are VIP eligible do not.  So when someone purchases retail they do not lose 90% of what they paid once the recession period is over.  This is one of many points that the anti-Wyndham VIP crowd on here do not get.



Don't put me in the anti-vip crowd but I think your 90% figure is probably pretty close. Say there was a way around the system (forged death certificate, adoption, ect) what would you be willing to pay for VIP benefits as a resale buyer? if you had the choice would you be paying someone $50,000 for VIP gold benefits? I would think the price would be closer to $10 to $20/k that include VIP. That is significantly more than they are going for now but still no where close to what Wyndham charges. 

Jason


----------



## ronparise

Cheryl20772 said:


> Wyndham can and very well may require the new owner to present a death certificate and/or obituary showing the relationship for qualification for VIP inheritance.



according to the small print on page 287 of the current directory "Only Club Wyndham points associated with ownership interests purchase directly through Wyndhamor its affliates, ownership interests aquire by will or intestate succession, ownership interests aquired by "Immediate Relative" of Members, or through PIC conversion count toward VIP status"

so thats 4 ways to get VIP status

1) ownership interests purchase directly through Wyndhamor its affliates
2) ownership interests aquire by will or intestate succession
3) ownership interests aquired by "immediate Relative" of Members
4) through PIC conversion

regardong #2  If I aquire an ownership via a will; certainly I have to prove that the prior owner is dead...but I dont have to prove that I was related to him to keep the VIP status of the account

There is no requirement that the new owner has to have been related to the prior, now dead owner


----------



## rrlongwell

ronparise said:


> according to the small print on page 287 of the current directory "Only Club Wyndham points associated with ownership interests purchase directly through Wyndhamor its affliates, ownership interests aquire by will or intestate succession, ownership interests aquired by "Immediate Relative" of Members, or through PIC conversion count toward VIP status"
> 
> so thats 4 ways to get VIP status
> 
> 1) ownership interests purchase directly through Wyndhamor its affliates
> 2) ownership interests aquire by will or intestate succession
> 3) ownership interests aquired by "immediate Relative" of Members
> 4) through PIC conversion
> 
> regardong #2  If I aquire an ownership via a will; certainly I have to prove that the prior owner is dead...but I dont have to prove that I was related to him to keep the VIP status of the account
> 
> There is no requirement that the new owner has to have been related to the prior, now dead owner



Ron reads this like I do.  I just cannot figure out who specifically are the Affiates.  There are a couple ways I could read this.  Is this the affiliated resorts listed in the members directory or companies that are affiliated With Wyndham Worldwide.


----------



## jjmanthei05

So because it's Monday and I don't really feel like working I created the scenario that I would think creates the maximum VIP benefit. Hope you can follow this.

Assumtions:
1) VIP Platinum purchase of 1,000,000 pts
2) Every reservation gets maximum discount and upgrade
3) All reservations done on individual days requiring a reservation transaction for each. 
4) All reservations done in quiet time to maximize housekeeping credits required
5) Physical limitations of total units at resort not taken into account
6) Guest Certificates not required
7) Full week only reservations
8) Housekeeping credits @ 2.25, Reservation Transactions @ 30, Maintenance fees at $5/k
9) Retail points purchased at $130/k

The greatest point difference I have found is at Ocean blvd in January with a 333% increase from a 1 bed lower (36,000) to a 4 bed pres(120,000). 

Results

# of VIP Reservations: 55
Resale Points Needed: 6.6 million (55 reservations x 120,000 points)
Extra MF Cost: $28,000
Reservation Transaction Cost: $0 (85 Included) 
Extra Housekeeping Credits (1870 credits): $4,207

Total Savings from VIP: $32,207

ROI: 4.036 years

So that is the best I can figure you would ever hope to return.

Jason


----------



## jjmanthei05

rrlongwell said:


> Ron reads this like I do.  I just cannot figure out who specifically are the Affiates.  There are a couple ways I could read this.  Is this the affiliated resorts listed in the members directory or companies that are affiliated With Wyndham Worldwide.



I don't know how the corporate structure works at Wyndham but it is possible that each sales office is it's own corporation affiliated with Wyndham. That way if a sales office ever makes an error and gets sued they can only go after that office instead of Wyndham as a whole. Same way that a company would be set up where all of the assets are in a holding company and rented to the actual business creating the product. That way if something were to happen and the company gets sued they can't go after the actual equipment or building just the value of the company itself. Just a possibility.

Jason


----------



## ronparise

am1 said:


> If VIP transferred then everyone would be VIP.  Wyndham has the right to not let VIP transfer.  It does hurt people who do not know what they are getting into and then sell.  It is great for people who keep their ownership.
> 
> It separates resale and retail points.  Yes resale points sell for $1.  Points that are VIP eligible do not.  So when someone purchases retail they do not lose 90% of what they paid once the recession period is over.  This is one of many points that the anti-Wyndham VIP crowd on here do not get.



Im not anti Wyndham, (I just contracted to buy another 800000 points)  I may be stupid, but Im not anti Wyndham, and I do know how to add...

Of course that VIP owner loses nearly all of what he paid after the rescision period....his points are worth no more than mine on the resale market

Dont get me wrong I would love to be a Platinum VIP owner, but I cant make the math work. Its cheaper for me to buy the extra points I need on the secondary market to match the benefits VIP offers


----------



## vacationhopeful

Jason,
I hope your employer does not have a sniffer program on your interent trolling. Nicely done. 

Next question of the day: *How long does the average FullPrice Wyndham Platimum buyer USE their timeshare before dying or selling or walking away?*

I bet it is under 5 years .... due to health issues (which includes dying).


----------



## ronparise

jjmanthei05 said:


> So because it's Monday and I don't really feel like working I created the scenario that I would think creates the maximum VIP benefit. Hope you can follow this.
> 
> Assumtions:
> 1) VIP Platinum purchase of 1,000,000 pts
> 2) Every reservation gets maximum discount and upgrade
> 3) All reservations done on individual days requiring a reservation transaction for each.
> 4) All reservations done in quiet time to maximize housekeeping credits required
> 5) Physical limitations of total units at resort not taken into account
> 6) Guest Certificates not required
> 7) Full week only reservations
> 8) Housekeeping credits @ 2.25, Reservation Transactions @ 30, Maintenance fees at $5/k
> 9) Retail points purchased at $130/k
> 
> The greatest point difference I have found is at Ocean blvd in January with a 333% increase from a 1 bed lower (36,000) to a 4 bed pres(120,000).
> 
> Results
> 
> # of VIP Reservations: 55
> Resale Points Needed: 6.6 million (55 reservations x 120,000 points)
> Extra MF Cost: $28,000
> Reservation Transaction Cost: $0 (85 Included)
> Extra Housekeeping Credits (1870 credits): $4,207
> 
> Total Savings from VIP: $32,207
> 
> ROI: 4.036 years
> 
> So that is the best I can figure you would ever hope to return.
> 
> Jason



I prefer to KISS...(keep it simple stupid) and assume in the real world, I need double the points a platinum VIP has, to match his discounts and upgrades ......A  hypothetical 1000000 point VIP account will cost $100000 and pay $5000 a year mf...vs no purchase cost and $10000 mf for the non vip at the end of 20 years we break even

However

If the non VIP invests his $100,000 at 5% he can make up the difference in mf and a breakeven point is never reached


----------



## ace2000

ronparise said:


> I prefer to KISS...(keep it simple stupid) and assume in the real world, I need double the points a platinum VIP has, to match his discounts and upgrades ......A  hypothetical 1000000 point VIP account will cost $100000 and pay $5000 a year mf...vs no purchase cost and $10000 mf for the non vip at the end of 20 years we break even
> 
> However
> 
> If the non VIP invests his $100,000 at 5% he can make up the difference in mf and a breakeven point is never reached


 
Not as simple as you think... you're leaving the advantages of that morning paper out of your equation.


----------



## jjmanthei05

vacationhopeful said:


> Jason,
> I hope your employer does not have a sniffer program on your interent trolling. Nicely done.
> 
> Next question of the day: *How long does the average FullPrice Wyndham Platimum buyer USE their timeshare before dying or selling or walking away?*
> 
> I bet it is under 5 years .... due to health issues (which includes dying).



Nah I am the IT guy at work so I know what we run...lol

Jason


----------



## jjmanthei05

ace2000 said:


> Not as simple as you think... you're leaving the advantages of that morning paper out of your equation.



Just ask for a room closer to the front desk to reduce your cost...I mean walking distance for the paper.

Jason


----------



## ronparise

ace2000 said:


> Not as simple as you think... you're leaving the advantages of that morning paper out of your equation.



That and the early check in....but I make up for it by stealing shampoo out of the maids cart

BTW  I really like that shampoo and the dishwasher soap


----------



## vacationhopeful

ronparise said:


> ..BTW  I really like that shampoo and the dishwasher soap



Wyndham has a NEW POLICY to VIPs (and all guests) with the midweek Clean & Tidy. 

As a cost saving measure to all owners, NO MORE FREE RESETS of supplies. IF you ask for more coffee packs, the charge is $2.50. No new soap. No extra Dishwasher soap packs. No extra or reset shampoo or conditioner or lotion. No reset on the laundry soap for W/D. Can't ask at the FRONT DESK for MORE either -- they have a PRINTED PRICE LIST. Seriously!.

Hope they will continue giving out toilet paper.


----------



## am1

jjmanthei05 said:


> So because it's Monday and I don't really feel like working I created the scenario that I would think creates the maximum VIP benefit. Hope you can follow this.
> 
> Assumtions:
> 1) VIP Platinum purchase of 1,000,000 pts
> 2) Every reservation gets maximum discount and upgrade
> 3) All reservations done on individual days requiring a reservation transaction for each.
> 4) All reservations done in quiet time to maximize housekeeping credits required
> 5) Physical limitations of total units at resort not taken into account
> 6) Guest Certificates not required
> 7) Full week only reservations
> 8) Housekeeping credits @ 2.25, Reservation Transactions @ 30, Maintenance fees at $5/k
> 9) Retail points purchased at $130/k
> 
> The greatest point difference I have found is at Ocean blvd in January with a 333% increase from a 1 bed lower (36,000) to a 4 bed pres(120,000).
> 
> Results
> 
> # of VIP Reservations: 55
> Resale Points Needed: 6.6 million (55 reservations x 120,000 points)
> Extra MF Cost: $28,000
> Reservation Transaction Cost: $0 (85 Included)
> Extra Housekeeping Credits (1870 credits): $4,207
> 
> Total Savings from VIP: $32,207
> 
> ROI: 4.036 years
> 
> So that is the best I can figure you would ever hope to return.
> 
> Jason



A good effort but:

- guest confirmations would be needed with that many reservations. $1500
-possibly more reservation transactions assume reservations will need to be cancelled and rebooked.  not much extra cash but no stress of running out with VIP
-short week stays go in favour of the VIP
-what is the purchase price of the resale points
-what is the exit strategy of the two different ownerships and costs?


Yes I agree the average would be low on how long VIP platinum memberships are used for.


----------



## rrlongwell

vacationhopeful said:


> ... Hope they will continue giving out toilet paper.



In this day and age of Wyndhamland, aren't you asking for a lot?


----------



## vacationhopeful

rrlongwell said:


> In this day and age of Wyndhamland, aren't you asking for a lot?



I do know how to take it out of their lobby bathrooms. 

But I DO SUGGEST *everyone who checks in immediately washes all the dishes and glassware and silverware* --- 2 or 3 DW soap packs are NOT enough to do a week's worth of dishes for 1 person in a 1bdr. The "start the DW on your way out", will be a hot water rinse.


----------



## rrlongwell

vacationhopeful said:


> I do know how to take it out of their lobby bathrooms.
> 
> But I DO SUGGEST *everyone who checks in immediately washes all the dishes and glassware and silverware* --- 2 or 3 DW soap packs are NOT enough to do a week's worth of dishes for 1 person in a 1bdr. The "start the DW on your way out", will be a hot water rinse.



Good point.


----------



## jjmanthei05

am1 said:


> A good effort but:
> 
> - guest confirmations would be needed with that many reservations. $1500
> -possibly more reservation transactions assume reservations will need to be cancelled and rebooked.  not much extra cash but no stress of running out with VIP
> -short week stays go in favour of the VIP
> -what is the purchase price of the resale points
> -what is the exit strategy of the two different ownerships and costs?
> 
> 
> Yes I agree the average would be low on how long VIP platinum memberships are used for.



-Again I assumed all usage by the owner requiring no guest certs
-You have 30ish extra transactions over and above what would be required for the 55 reservations. 
-Short weeks stays really only benefit on hks and rts but prime reservations would work more in the favor of the resale owner as not as many transactions so less rts needed and less hks
-Exit strategies would be the same except for the "pain" felt by the VIP owner . 

If you go in knowing that your VIP benefits aren't transferable and your resale prices are going to be 90-95% less than what you paid all the more power to you.

Jason


----------



## rickandcindy23

> If VIP transferred then everyone would be VIP. Wyndham has the right to not let VIP transfer.



The value tanked as soon as they stopped the transfer of VIP benefits in resale.  Wyndham is the reason Wyndham values are down to free or practically free.  They did it to their product, and then the salespeople trash resale.  It's bizarre.


----------



## ausman

vacationhopeful said:


> Wyndham has a NEW POLICY to VIPs (and all guests) with the midweek Clean & Tidy.
> 
> As a cost saving measure to all owners, NO MORE FREE RESETS of supplies. IF you ask for more coffee packs, the charge is $2.50. No new soap. No extra Dishwasher soap packs. No extra or reset shampoo or conditioner or lotion. No reset on the laundry soap for W/D. Can't ask at the FRONT DESK for MORE either -- they have a PRINTED PRICE LIST. Seriously!.
> 
> Hope they will continue giving out toilet paper.



The stated VIP benefit is just supposed to be fresh towels and take out the trash. So in one sense that is all that should be expected.

If the resort has always supplied extra supplies and now does not, then I agree it stinks. 

I haven't stayed at a Wyndham resort for 4 mths  now and it will be six before I do so again. Is this applicable to all Wyndham managed resorts or just a few.?


----------



## vacationhopeful

It was mention as a cost saving feature for Royal Vista at the HOA meeting and implemented already at Sea Gardens.


----------



## rrlongwell

basham said:


> The stated VIP benefit is just supposed to be fresh towels and take out the trash. So in one sense that is all that should be expected.
> 
> If the resort has always supplied extra supplies and now does not, then I agree it stinks.
> 
> I haven't stayed at a Wyndham resort for 4 mths  now and it will be six before I do so again. Is this applicable to all Wyndham managed resorts or just a few.?




The soap, shampoo, ect, to my knowledge, did not track to VIP status, it is just done by the resort for all guests.


----------



## jjmanthei05

I think this is more of a resort by resort thing. For example last time we stayed at Palm-Aire they replaced everything (dish washing, laundry, soap ect) which was good because our 2 year old was sick for 5 days and threw up nightly so there was a lot of laundry. Glacier Canyon doesn't, Great Smokies and Seawatch do. We are staying there end of March so I called and checked. I would just call the resort and ask them what they replace just to not be blind sided when you show up. 

Jason


----------



## vacationhopeful

jjmanthei05 said:


> I think this is more of a resort by resort thing. For example last time we stayed at Palm-Aire they replaced everything (dish washing, laundry, soap ect) which was good because our 2 year old was sick for 5 days and threw up nightly so there was a lot of laundry. Glacier Canyon doesn't, Great Smokies and Seawatch do. We are staying there end of March so I called and checked. I would just call the resort and ask them what they replace just to not be blind sided when you show up.
> 
> Jason



Jason,
I am sure that will change as the Sea Gardens manager is taking the helm at Palm Aire.


----------



## persia

Or a unit next to a VIP that likes to sleep in...



jjmanthei05 said:


> Just ask for a room closer to the front desk to reduce your cost...I mean walking distance for the paper.
> 
> Jason


----------



## ace2000

persia said:


> Or a unit next to a VIP that likes to sleep in...


 
Yep, that always works.  Just make sure you put the sections back in the right order.

Always drives me crazy when I can't find one on my floor, and have to walk the stairs to find one.


----------



## am1

rickandcindy23 said:


> The value tanked as soon as they stopped the transfer of VIP benefits in resale.  Wyndham is the reason Wyndham values are down to free or practically free.  They did it to their product, and then the salespeople trash resale.  It's bizarre.



If VIP transferred why would people buy retail????  That is what makes the two  different products.


----------



## jjmanthei05

I can't see VIP worth close to the value unless it is being used for a rental business with a large resale purchase to go along with the retail purchase( 3-5 million points to go along with the 1 million retail). With this you could see your costs recovered in probably 1-2 years and hope they don't change the benefits going forward.  Rentals don't seem to bare out much of a profit margin if any going without the discounts and upgrades because of the people just trying to dump their points to cover their mf. If you are purchasing this for personal use only, I don't see where you would get enough benefit out of VIP to justify the cost. 

Jason


----------



## jjmanthei05

vacationhopeful said:


> Jason,
> I am sure that will change as the Sea Gardens manager is taking the helm at Palm Aire.



Booo that. After the wonderful experience we had there not related to the resort, I don't think my wife want to go back but it's still annoying that they do that. 

Jason


----------



## ronparise

jjmanthei05 said:


> I can't see VIP worth close to the value unless it is being *used for a rental business with a large resale purchase to go along with the retail purchase( 3-5 million points to go along with the 1 million retail). *With this you could see your costs recovered in probably 1-2 years and hope they don't change the benefits going forward.  Rentals don't seem to bare out much of a profit margin if any going without the discounts and upgrades because of the people just trying to dump their points to cover their mf. If you are purchasing this for personal use only, I don't see where you would get enough benefit out of VIP to justify the cost.
> 
> Jason



Now thats a plan...but use the PIC program for half of it and an assummable loan deal (from Wyndham Corporate for most of the rest)

Of course to even think of such a plan, you need to be crazy (like me)


----------



## jjmanthei05

ronparise said:


> Now thats a plan...but use the PIC program for half of it and an assummable loan deal (from Wyndham Corporate for most of the rest)
> 
> Of course to even think of such a plan, you need to be crazy (like me)



With the current deal of $25,000 for 539,000 points  through the loan program (not sure if it is still available) along with a PIC contract for 110,000 you may be able to get away with VIP Platinum for under $40,000. Again for rentals that may almost make it cheap enough to do. Or you could go the even crazier route and get adopted by whoever bought the original contract, transfer it to you since you would be direct family, then get unadopted. According to our local adoption agency you only have to pay the filing fee of like $300. Now that is a crazy way to get your VIP benefits...lol

Jason


----------



## e.bram

Do gay spouses count as family? You could get married and divorced, like they  do for green cards.


----------



## ace2000

e.bram said:


> Do gay spouses count as family? You could get married and divorced, like they  do for green cards.


 
That will be an interesting dynamic in the VIP equation.


----------



## ronparise

jjmanthei05 said:


> With the current deal of $25,000 for 539,000 points  through the loan program (not sure if it is still available) along with a PIC contract for 110,000 you may be able to get away with VIP Platinum for under $40,000. Again for rentals that may almost make it cheap enough to do. Or you could go the even crazier route and get adopted by whoever bought the original contract, transfer it to you since you would be direct family, then get unadopted. According to our local adoption agency you only have to pay the filing fee of like $300. Now that is a crazy way to get your VIP benefits...lol
> 
> Jason



they wont let you PIC with an assumable deal...I tried

Gold is the best you can do on a budget..but you have to do it before Oct

508000 PICed points and 100000 bought retail, ($12000)


----------



## ronparise

jjmanthei05 said:


> With the current deal of $25,000 for 539,000 points  through the loan program (not sure if it is still available) along with a PIC contract for 110,000 you may be able to get away with VIP Platinum for under $40,000. Again for rentals that may almost make it cheap enough to do. Or you could go the even crazier route and get adopted by whoever bought the original contract, transfer it to you since you would be direct family, then get unadopted. According to our local adoption agency you only have to pay the filing fee of like $300. Now that is a crazy way to get your VIP benefits...lol
> 
> Jason



Ive been offered a deal where the current owner brings me on as a co-owner, (new deeds) We would then change the mailing address to my address and I pay the mf....sometime down the road we take him off the deed and I remain the sole owner...Since we never get a new Wyndham account the VIP status ought to continue

I turned it down because there was too much trust required..I didnt know him and he didnt know me..he was afraid I would stop paying fees and he would be stuck, and I was afraid he would still want to use the points or want a share of the rental income. 

The fact remains that VIP is a valuable thing to some of us...its just not worth the money it takes to get there


----------



## ronparise

e.bram said:


> Do gay spouses count as family? You could get married and divorced, like they  do for green cards.



Are you proposing??


----------



## ace2000

e.bram said:


> Do gay spouses count as family? You could get married and divorced, like they  do for green cards.


 


ronparise said:


> The fact remains that VIP is a valuable thing to some of us...


 


ronparise said:


> Are you proposing??


 
This thread is starting to make me uncomfortable...  :hysterical:


----------



## rrlongwell

ronparise said:


> Ive been offered a deal where the current owner brings me on as a co-owner, (new deeds) We would then change the mailing address to my address and I pay the mf....sometime down the road we take him off the deed and I remain the sole owner...Since we never get a new Wyndham account the VIP status ought to continue ... The fact remains that VIP is a valuable thing to some of us...its just not worth the money it takes to get there



I called Wyndham on this point awhile ago.  They said adding a co-owner would work for VIP purposes until the orginal owner was dropped from the deed, then the VIP points associated with contract would not be VIP eligable points anymore and the VIP status would be removed.


----------



## kev5982

So when I bought i was not married, so after I add my wife to the deed does the VIP Platinum go away when I die? I know a trust is the way to go, but in a trust how does Wyndham know who the original buyer is? You could put multiple names in a trust.


----------



## am1

kev5982 said:


> So when I bought i was not married, so after I add my wife to the deed does the VIP Platinum go away when I die? I know a trust is the way to go, but in a trust how does Wyndham know who the original buyer is? You could put multiple names in a trust.



The transfer would be between family and it would be "willed" to your wife.


----------



## rrlongwell

am1 said:


> The transfer would be between family and it would be "willed" to your wife.



Your wife would keep VIP privledges because she is immediate family and that is the provision that would be applicable.  It would not have to be willed to your wife.  She gets ownership by right of surviorship.  Check the deed to make sure.  I am not sure, you would need to check with Wyndham, but the Trust may have to have the benficary as someone that is eligable for the VIP benefits, but for the trust, i.e. spouse, child, etc.


----------



## Cheryl20772

e.bram said:


> Do gay spouses count as family?


I would think that only gay couples living in states that recognize civil marriage contracts would be able to count as family.  That's something the law is unfair about.  Some states have tried to make it more fair and allow the same legal status to 2 people in a contratual relationship as it does to a man and a woman with the same contract.  If religion was truly separate from civil matters, each would be an equal person regardless of gender.

The way laws are now, they may be considered family in the state where they live, but not in the state where Wyndham does business.  That's really messy.


----------



## ace2000

Cheryl20772 said:


> I would think that only gay couples living in states that recognize civil marriage contracts would be able to count as family.  That's something the law is unfair about.  Some states have tried to make it more fair and allow the same legal status to 2 people in a contratual relationship as it does to a man and a woman with the same contract.  If religion was truly separate from civil matters, each would be an equal person regardless of gender.
> 
> The way laws are now, they may be considered family in the state where they live, but not in the state where Wyndham does business.  That's really messy.


 
Of course Wyndham could always trump state law with their company policy.  Hard to imagine they'd stand up long to the wrath of the gay movement.


----------



## luvNMB52

am1 said:


> The transfer would be between family and it would be "willed" to your wife.



Not sure if I'm on the right thread, but the discussion seems to be going in the direction of my question.  Background:  My husband and I bought Wyndham Ocean Blvd. (retail - we were uninformed).  We got 1 contract in Tower 4 for 154,000 pts.  We paid that off and decided to buy another contract two years later (still retail - WHY didn't we find you guys sooner?!) in Tower 3 for 155,000 pts.  The first contract has two names on it - my husband's and mine.  The second contract has four names on it - ours and our two adult daughters.  With the two contracts totaling 309 points we are VIP.  When we go for updates, we are advised to combine our deeds (of course that includes buying more points) to get the daughters' names on the whole thing and to have one deed that is VIP.  Also that when we die, that the deeds will probably be split between the girls and no one will have VIP.  We've been tempted to buy more (actually had a contract once to put it all together with a Towers on the Grove contract which had ROFR - a horror story!! - we rescinded, thank goodness, with advice from the Wyndham forum that's been down for awhile!), but there has to be a better way to solve this.  Any suggestions?  Thanks!

btw, we do enjoy our VIP benefits - especially the discounted rates, upgrades, and no housekeeping points.  This is particularly true now that we are retired and can be much more flexible in travel dates and diligent in watching for upgrades.  Now that we are aware of how grossly we overspent, it does help to feel like we get a little something for our $$.


----------



## persia

So what happens in a trust?  If the points are in the name of a trust can Wyndham keep track of the officers of a trust? I mean from a practical standpoint they have hundreds of thousands of owners, if the computer says it's a trust is the original owner recorded somewhere that they can check?  

I can see them using the "owner update" for this.  The just walk in and say "oh Mr and Mrs Jones) and then new trust owners saying, "sorry we own the points now" and the salesperson thinking "let me mark that resale for you...."  But does this really happen?


----------



## scootr5

luvNMB52 said:


> Not sure if I'm on the right thread, but the discussion seems to be going in the direction of my question.  Background:  My husband and I bought Wyndham Ocean Blvd. (retail - we were uninformed).  We got 1 contract in Tower 4 for 154,000 pts.  We paid that off and decided to buy another contract two years later (still retail - WHY didn't we find you guys sooner?!) in Tower 3 for 155,000 pts.  The first contract has two names on it - my husband's and mine.  The second contract has four names on it - ours and our two adult daughters.  With the two contracts totaling 309 points we are VIP.  When we go for updates, we are advised to combine our deeds (of course that includes buying more points) to get the daughters' names on the whole thing and to have one deed that is VIP.  Also that when we die, that the deeds will probably be split between the girls and no one will have VIP.  We've been tempted to buy more (actually had a contract once to put it all together with a Towers on the Grove contract which had ROFR - a horror story!! - we rescinded, thank goodness, with advice from the Wyndham forum that's been down for awhile!), but there has to be a better way to solve this.  Any suggestions?  Thanks!
> 
> btw, we do enjoy our VIP benefits - especially the discounted rates, upgrades, and no housekeeping points.  This is particularly true now that we are retired and can be much more flexible in travel dates and diligent in watching for upgrades.  Now that we are aware of how grossly we overspent, it does help to feel like we get a little something for our $$.



I would think you could just type up and record a new deed with your daughters' names on it, and then send the copy to Wyndham with $299 transfer fee. That's a lot less expensive than buying more retail points.


----------



## luvNMB52

thanks, Scott.  We will look into that.  Seems pretty simple - wish someone at Wyndham could be so concise.  ha!


----------



## kev5982

Call Wyndham for sure, they sent me the same forms. No points to buy.
You will have to have the deeds changed to have all four names on them.


----------



## rrlongwell

scootr5 said:


> I would think you could just type up and record a new deed with your daughters' names on it, and then send the copy to Wyndham with $299 transfer fee. That's a lot less expensive than buying more retail points.



You can do that at anytime.  Unless you are sure that your daughter wants all of the deeds and associated maintance fees when you pass on, I would not do this anytime soon.  She should be an authorized user on the existing account.  This is where the value to Wyndham Timeshares are.  It is the heirs if they want to continue using them.  I would not make it mandatory at this point in time for them.  In your case, you might want to talk to a Estate Planning Attorney and put the timeshares into a trust with you, your spouse, and daughters as Benificaries.


----------



## ChristinaLouise

*Owner Update takes away VIP status*

Attended most upsetting owner's update while in Myrtle Beach Ocean Blvd.  Rep told us that we would no longer qualify for VIP status because of new rules.  We own 105,000 pts at Kingsgate and a 224,000 PIC week at Attitash.  Neither are from resale.  We've PIC ed the Attitash week successfully for years and enjoyed the benefits of VIP, but sales rep says:
 1.) According to my acct., Wyndham considers my PIC wk "inactive" ~ why?  sales rep can't say???
  2.) Wyndham is going thru the RCI resorts and disqualifying many resorts from qualifying for the PIC program??  Why??  Again, couldn't answer ~~ postulated that Attitash wasn't up to Wyndham standards . . . hmmmm.... just last year we had to pay and extra $800 special assessment at Attitash for capitol improvement, so I doubt that's it. . .

Has anyone else heard about Wyndham illiminating some RCI resorts from qualifying from the PIC program???  Oh, BTW, Attitash is a fixed week, and not under the point system, and it was bought at full price, as was the Wyndham.  It has always been available to PIC in the past.  

I'm guessing this and much of what else was told to me is made up lies??


----------



## rrlongwell

ChristinaLouise said:


> Attended most upsetting owner's update while in Myrtle Beach Ocean Blvd.  Rep told us that we would no longer qualify for VIP status because of new rules.  We own 105,000 pts at Kingsgate and a 224,000 PIC week at Attitash.  Neither are from resale.  We've PIC ed the Attitash week successfully for years and enjoyed the benefits of VIP, but sales rep says:
> 1.) According to my acct., Wyndham considers my PIC wk "inactive" ~ why?  sales rep can't say???
> 2.) Wyndham is going thru the RCI resorts and disqualifying many resorts from qualifying for the PIC program??  Why??  Again, couldn't answer ~~ postulated that Attitash wasn't up to Wyndham standards . . . hmmmm.... just last year we had to pay and extra $800 special assessment at Attitash for capitol improvement, so I doubt that's it. . .
> 
> Has anyone else heard about Wyndham illiminating some RCI resorts from qualifying from the PIC program???  Oh, BTW, Attitash is a fixed week, and not under the point system, and it was bought at full price, as was the Wyndham.  It has always been available to PIC in the past.
> 
> I'm guessing this and much of what else was told to me is made up lies??



Just called Owner Care.  They confirmed they are in the process of reviewing all PIC contracts and eliminating a number of the resorts from eligability.  He said this has not been formally announced.  The existing PIC contracts on the selected contracts are not being honored.  If I were you, I would call Owner Care and find out why your PIC contract is being shown as not active to determine if it is part of this system wide review or if it is something else.  If it is a case that your contractual PIC rights have been eliminated, I would immediatly file with the BBB of Central Flordia.  I would also print off copies of their on-line discriptions that say existing VIP benefits are being grandfathered and submit that with the complaint.

UPDATE:  Owner's Care gave an addtional discription of what was happening.  If it was a PIC contract that the underlying week went to RCI points or Owner does not own the underlying week at this point, then VIP credit is not going to be given.  She said the review was on these two points and that it will be a slow process.


----------



## ronandjoan

ChristinaLouise said:


> Attended most upsetting owner's update while in Myrtle Beach Ocean Blvd.  Rep told us that we would no longer qualify for VIP status because of new rules.  We own 105,000 pts at Kingsgate and a 224,000 PIC week at Attitash.  Neither are from resale.  We've PIC ed the Attitash week successfully for years and enjoyed the benefits of VIP, but sales rep says:
> 1.) According to my acct., Wyndham considers my PIC wk "inactive" ~ why?  sales rep can't say???
> 2.) Wyndham is going thru the RCI resorts and disqualifying many resorts from qualifying for the PIC program??  Why??  Again, couldn't answer ~~ postulated that Attitash wasn't up to Wyndham standards . . . hmmmm.... just last year we had to pay and extra $800 special assessment at Attitash for capitol improvement, so I doubt that's it. . .
> 
> Has anyone else heard about Wyndham illiminating some RCI resorts from qualifying from the PIC program???  Oh, BTW, Attitash is a fixed week, and not under the point system, and it was bought at full price, as was the Wyndham.  It has always been available to PIC in the past.
> 
> I'm guessing this and much of what else was told to me is made up lies??



Yes, they are lies, to scare you into buying more.

We have heard this from EVERY update we have ever gone to,....

1.  whatever we have is NO GOOD!!!!!!!  
2.  whatever points we have will not be able to be used!  
3.  The PIC program is no longer available! 
4.  Bonnet Creek is no good -- no one goes to Disney anymore, only to [MY ] resort!
5.  You will never get to be in Tower 6 at Bonnet Creek unless you buy from me now.
6. The only way you will have points to go ANYWHERE is to BUY NOW FROM ME!
7.  Your MF are way too high where you own, let's move all your points to [MY] resort and get a lower MF. ( Oh, and you have to buy more in order to do that.)
8.  POints you buy on eBay cannot be used!
9.  Any contracts you have that are not UID cannot be used.  You are in serious danger of not having anything - this said from the second closer, veyr seriously, looking at us with sorrowful eyes....

well, NONE OF THIS has been true over the years,.... NONE,  

Therefore, I never want to go again,and I try my best to prevent DH from wanting to go...

DH:  oh, Let's go, Susie called again.

ME:  "You do NOT have a relationship with Susie!  She doesn;t care about you."

DH:  "but, she's so nice....."

 usually I take the phone off the hook firstthing but sometimes we have to leave one on for the internet (e.g. used to be  at BonnetCreek)


----------



## rrlongwell

ronandjoan said:


> Yes, they are lies, to scare you into buying more.
> 
> We have heard this from EVERY update we have ever gone to,....
> 
> 1.  whatever we have is NO GOOD!!!!!!!
> 2.  whatever points we have will not be able to be used!
> 3.  The PIC program is no longer available!
> 4.  Bonnet Creek is no good -- no one goes to Disney anymore, only to [MY ] resort!
> 5.  You will never get to be in Tower 6 at Bonnet Creek unless you buy from me now.
> 6. The only way you will have points to go ANYWHERE is to BUY NOW FROM ME!
> 7.  Your MF are way too high where you own, let's move all your points to [MY] resort and get a lower MF. ( Oh, and you have to buy more in order to do that.)
> 8.  POints you buy on eBay cannot be used!
> 9.  Any contracts you have that are not UID cannot be used.  You are in serious danger of not having anything - this said from the second closer, veyr seriously, looking at us with sorrowful eyes....
> 
> well, NONE OF THIS has been true over the years,.... NONE,
> 
> Therefore, I never want to go again,and I try my best to prevent DH from wanting to go...
> 
> DH:  oh, Let's go, Susie called again.
> 
> ME:  "You do NOT have a relationship with Susie!  She doesn;t care about you."
> 
> DH:  "but, she's so nice....."
> 
> usually I take the phone off the hook firstthing but sometimes we have to leave one on for the internet (e.g. used to be  at BonnetCreek)



You passed the test, you are now ready to be Wyndham Sales Person.  I have heard that they do have some that go from Sales Office to Sales Office.


----------



## lisa1001

ChristinaLouise said:


> Has anyone else heard about Wyndham illiminating some RCI resorts from qualifying from the PIC program???  Oh, BTW, Attitash is a fixed week, and not under the point system, and it was bought at full price, as was the Wyndham.  It has always been available to PIC in the past.
> 
> I'm guessing this and much of what else was told to me is made up lies??



We hear this all the time because one of our pic'd resorts went to points (Diamond).  We however, did not pay to convert our deed to points and still own the original pic'd week.  We also never convert this unit to points because it has always been a good trader which makes them more suspicious.


----------



## rrlongwell

New policy at National Harbor regarding the use of a guest pass.  We gave my wife's parents a reservation in their name at National Harbor.  We are here this weekend with them.  Since we are VIP we would be eligable to receive the resort VIP priveledges.  Since this was the case, and it was my understanding that a unit that a guest pass was used on, the owner could recend the guest pass.  The penality would be that the guest pass could later not be used.  Under the new rule at National Harbor, once a guest pass is issued the name on the reservation can not be changed back to the owner.  Lucky for us, both my wife's parents and us are here, they showed up before I did.  Since my wife was the guest of record's daughter, they let her sign in for them and they did take my wife's credit card for the reservation.


----------



## ronandjoan

rrlongwell said:


> You passed the test, you are now ready to be Wyndham Sales Person.  I have heard that they do have some that go from Sales Office to Sales Office.



Are you implying that I am a Wyndham Sales Person and we travel from Wyndham timeshare to timeshare as I sell?

I hope not.


----------



## kalua

*losing pic weeks*

if i understand you correctly you are saying that one of your resorts went to point's ,if that is true then you would loose that resort , in the pic program , the pic weeks can not be a points resort of any kind, can not be affiliated with wyndham , but has to be affiliated with rci . if what i read earlier is true and they are dropping resorts i hope mine doesn't fall into that category.


----------



## rrlongwell

ronandjoan said:


> Are you implying that I am a Wyndham Sales Person and we travel from Wyndham timeshare to timeshare as I sell?
> 
> I hope not.



Absolutly not, just observing you did get and remembered their sales pitches.  The one I like the best is buy full retail to become Platinum then Wyndham rents half and you keep half for personal use.


----------



## ronparise

rrlongwell said:


> New policy at National Harbor regarding the use of a guest pass.  We gave my wife's parents a reservation in their name at National Harbor.  We are here this weekend with them.  Since we are VIP we would be eligable to receive the resort VIP priveledges.  Since this was the case, and it was my understanding that a unit that a guest pass was used on, the owner could recend the guest pass.  The penality would be that the guest pass could later not be used.  Under the new rule at National Harbor, once a guest pass is issued the name on the reservation can not be changed back to the owner.  Lucky for us, both my wife's parents and us are here, they showed up before I did.  Since my wife was the guest of record's daughter, they let her sign in for them and they did take my wife's credit card for the reservation.



I couldnt follow what you said here, but I think the policy is The guest cert is for a certain person...If that person is not checking in you need another guest cert


----------



## ronparise

kalua said:


> if i understand you correctly you are saying that one of your resorts went to point's ,if that is true then you would loose that resort , in the pic program , the pic weeks can not be a points resort of any kind, can not be affiliated with wyndham , but has to be affiliated with rci . if what i read earlier is true and they are dropping resorts i hope mine doesn't fall into that category.



As I understand it a PIC week can not be associated with any points program...The question is:  Is that the resort or the week? In other words, what happens if the resort goes to points but I dont convert my week?

I think the PIC status stays the same....but Im not going to test it


----------



## kalua

ronparise said:


> As I understand it a PIC week can not be associated with any points program...The question is:  Is that the resort or the week? In other words, what happens if the resort goes to points but I dont convert my week?
> 
> I think the PIC status stays the same....but Im not going to test it



as I understand it, the week nor the resort can be associated with anything that is point's ,or if it becomes points, then it can not stay in the pic program , and as was stated earlier by another poster if i understood them correctly or if wyndham decides a resort doesn't meet their standards and the resort rating changes it will also be dropped from pic , someone please correct me if i'm wrong.


----------



## rrlongwell

Just left a sales presentation at National Harbor.  Here is what is now happening with their new roll out:

1.  They have taken ownership of my underlying PIC week (the underlying week was obtained through Wyndham Vacation Resorts Myrtle Beach as part of a package to buy a UDI contract at Towers on the Grove.  

2.  The UDI timeshare at Towers on the Grove was being taken from me plus one other timeshare.

3.  I was being required to deed back to Wyndham my Seawatch Platantation, Smokey Mountain, and Westwinds timeshares.  I was to (no equity trades for the properties they took or the ones I was deed over to tem) 1 Million Club Wyndham Access points (full rate) in order to have my Platium Membership Restored.

4.  She kept raisiing her voice to accent her point.  I went over to the main desk and was working with them to try and stop the unilteral takeover of some of my properties and keep my existing points credits of over 1 million points.  My argument is that my on-liine account still showed me as the owner in good standing of over 1 Million points.  

5.  In my absence, the sales rep continued with her agressive behavior by calling my wife a drunk because she would not meet the Wyndham demands.

In the aftermath of abusive treatment at the hands of Wyndham's agent, the Sales Director did acknoweldge that we will keep our Platium membership and will not have Sands Ocean Blvd, Towers on the Grove, plus one other timeshare taken from us.  We also do not have to deed over the remaining Myrtle Beach and Smokey Mountain properties to Wyndham.





yive treatment my wife received at the hands of W


----------



## Cheryl20772

rrlongwell said:


> In the aftermath of abusive treatment at the hands of Wyndham's agent, the Sales Director did acknoweldge that we will keep our Platium membership and will not have Sands Ocean Blvd, Towers on the Grove, plus one other timeshare taken from us.  We also do not have to deed over the remaining Myrtle Beach and Smokey Mountain properties to Wyndham.


It sounds like you will soon be joining the rest of us in just saying "no" to any sales updates going forward.  Why do you let them punish you like this? Did you at least get a nice gift for attending?


----------



## rrlongwell

Cheryl20772 said:


> It sounds like you will soon be joining the rest of us in just saying "no" to any sales updates going forward.  Why do you let them punish you like this? Did you at least get a nice gift for attending?



A $100 dollar gift certificate for the National Harbor Restaurants, I go to updates with or without gifts, they do not always give gifts.  On this trip they wanted to do a separate sales pitch to our guests, they turned this down at a resent trip to a California resort (a Worldmark that is in the Club Plus reservations system).  They do not want to go to the presentations, so we said no.  At least the Worldmark location is a class act, they do offer gifts for non-members to attend their pitch.  Guests here do not get anything except a seperate sales pitch).  It does not matter any for this set of guests, they do not go to sales presentations nor are they in any particular hurry to buy Wyndham timeshares (they get the use of however many they want through us).


----------



## Cheryl20772

rrlongwell said:


> A $100 dollar gift certificate for the National Harbor Restaurants, I go to updates with or without gifts, they do not always give gifts.


 I know they try to not give any gifts.  It's been that way for the past few years.  I still don't understand why you keep going to these.  You know they are going to lie to you and make you angry.  This time you report that they insulted your wife.  Who needs this kind of aggravation?

If enough of us avoid them like plague, maybe they will see that they need to change their ways.


----------



## rrlongwell

deleted, duplicate post


----------



## rrlongwell

Cheryl20772 said:


> I know they try to not give any gifts.  It's been that way for the past few years.  I still don't understand why you keep going to these.  You know they are going to lie to you and make you angry.  This time you report that they insulted your wife.  Who needs this kind of aggravation?
> 
> If enough of us avoid them like plague, maybe they will see that they need to change their ways.



Boycotting them serves no purpose other than to be denied information that I am otherwise eligable for as a owner.  I do not know how many times I have been told by various people that only sales staff can inform people of the upcoming changes.  For instances, on this trip I learned that what they call voyager is now up and fully running.  They are describing it as an internal system.  They also indicated they are unaware of any program that is reserving a 10 minute window to re-researve a cancelled reservation on the Book and Cancel routine (the "Safegarding" program that was referred to in another thread).  Sometimes a lack of knoweldge is just as useful to know as the information they give.  They still remain unwilling to say what the Voyager program is doing.   Since they are not giving details on this new program other than to say it has been implemented, I am assuming it is not real favorable to the VIP members and could very well be the name of the program that was speculated to exist as a "capture" program for when a desirable reservation is cancelled, it is immediatly picked up by the computer, thereby preventing a re-booking at fewer points. Or, maybe it is a program to identify the PIC weeks that are being identified to be eliminated from the ViP eligable points for VIP purposes, or both.

UPDATE NEWSPAPER:  National Habor continues not to deliver the newspaper to me as a VIP Platimum member.  The good news for non-VIP Owners this weekend is that they were giving them away in the lobby.


----------



## bnoble

> Boycotting them serves no purpose other than to be denied information that I am otherwise eligable for as a owner


And that would make sense, if you ever got real "information" at any of these...


----------



## Cheryl20772

rrlongwell said:


> They also indicated they are unaware of any program that is reserving a 10 minute window to re-researve a cancelled reservation on the Book and Cancel routine (the "Safegarding" program that was referred to in another thread).


So you found out they are lying to owners at the other resorts where "safehouse" is being sold as a way to protect VIP cancel and rebook discounts.  I think I read where you previously called Corporate and they already told you there is not such thing as safehouse.

How can you know that they are telling you the truth about what you "learned" on this trip?  Perhaps you only were told another lie du jour.  

Nothing we learn at an update or sales presentation can be trusted to be truth unless it equates to money coming out of your pocket.


----------



## Ozlander

SOS8260456 said:


> Everytime Wyndham gives VIP's enhancements, it is always more like a demotion.
> 
> Lisa
> 
> PS It's February 2012 now, where are the "enhancements"?



You got that right.


----------



## Ozlander

rrlongwell said:


> Boycotting them serves no purpose other than to be denied information that I am otherwise eligable for as a owner.  I do not know how many times I have been told by various people that only sales staff can inform people of the upcoming changes.  For instances, on this trip I learned that what they call voyager is now up and fully running.  They are describing it as an internal system.  They also indicated they are unaware of any program that is reserving a 10 minute window to re-researve a cancelled reservation on the Book and Cancel routine (the "Safegarding" program that was referred to in another thread).  Sometimes a lack of knoweldge is just as useful to know as the information they give.  They still remain unwilling to say what the Voyager program is doing.   Since they are not giving details on this new program other than to say it has been implemented, I am assuming it is not real favorable to the VIP members and could very well be the name of the program that was speculated to exist as a "capture" program for when a desirable reservation is cancelled, it is immediatly picked up by the computer, thereby preventing a re-booking at fewer points. Or, maybe it is a program to identify the PIC weeks that are being identified to be eliminated from the ViP eligable points for VIP purposes, or both.
> 
> UPDATE NEWSPAPER:  National Habor continues not to deliver the newspaper to me as a VIP Platimum member.  The good news for non-VIP Owners this weekend is that they were giving them away in the lobby.



You seem to be smarter than , as you know when they are lying and when they or not. What to believe and what not to.

Me, if their lips are moving it's a lie.


----------



## ronandjoan

rrlongwell said:


> Absolutly not, just observing you did get and remembered their sales pitches.  The one I like the best is buy full retail to become Platinum then Wyndham rents half and you keep half for personal use.



Okay!  And now you have given me yet another pitch to add to my list!


----------



## ronandjoan

This is soooo horrible!  Exactly the reason I never want them to look at our contract listing..... They always want to find "something wrong".   The "new" plan of just coming to your room still opens your account to them when you say Yes, so then they can start manipulating.



rrlongwell said:


> Just left a sales presentation at National Harbor.  Here is what is now happening with their new roll out:
> 
> 1.  They have taken ownership of my underlying PIC week (the underlying week was obtained through Wyndham Vacation Resorts Myrtle Beach as part of a package to buy a UDI contract at Towers on the Grove.
> 
> 2.  The UDI timeshare at Towers on the Grove was being taken from me plus one other timeshare.
> 
> 3.  I was being required to deed back to Wyndham my Seawatch Platantation, Smokey Mountain, and Westwinds timeshares.  I was to (no equity trades for the properties they took or the ones I was deed over to tem) 1 Million Club Wyndham Access points (full rate) in order to have my Platium Membership Restored.
> 
> 4.  She kept raisiing her voice to accent her point.  I went over to the main desk and was working with them to try and stop the unilteral takeover of some of my properties and keep my existing points credits of over 1 million points.  My argument is that my on-liine account still showed me as the owner in good standing of over 1 Million points.
> 
> 5.  In my absence, the sales rep continued with her agressive behavior by calling my wife a drunk because she would not meet the Wyndham demands.
> 
> In the aftermath of abusive treatment at the hands of Wyndham's agent, the Sales Director did acknoweldge that we will keep our Platium membership and will not have Sands Ocean Blvd, Towers on the Grove, plus one other timeshare taken from us.  We also do not have to deed over the remaining Myrtle Beach and Smokey Mountain properties to Wyndham.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> yive treatment my wife received at the hands of W


----------



## rrlongwell

Cheryl20772 said:


> So you found out they are lying to owners at the other resorts where "safehouse" is being sold as a way to protect VIP cancel and rebook discounts.  I think I read where you previously called Corporate and they already told you there is not such thing as safehouse.
> 
> How can you know that they are telling you the truth about what you "learned" on this trip?  Perhaps you only were told another lie du jour.
> 
> Nothing we learn at an update or sales presentation can be trusted to be truth unless it equates to money coming out of your pocket.



Do not believe anything I hear from a sales presentation usless I verify it through other sources.


----------



## jjmanthei05

Cheryl20772 said:


> I know they try to not give any gifts.  It's been that way for the past few years.  I still don't understand why you keep going to these.  You know they are going to lie to you and make you angry.  This time you report that they insulted your wife.  Who needs this kind of aggravation?
> 
> If enough of us avoid them like plague, maybe they will see that they need to change their ways.



Unlikely since they get sales from 15% of The tours they do. If they are selling to every one in seven at an average sales of $1,900 for every tour done (not just the ones sold) why would you change anything you do...

Jason

*Numbers are from their last quarterly filing I saw which was about a year ago.


----------



## rrlongwell

*Voyager/Safeharbor*

Update on what I have been told pertaining to the above program(s).  From the people in a postion to know, the upcoming changes are under the Voyager name and are in Beta form.  The major portion is linking up the various resort reservation systems with the main Wyndham reservation system.  Regarding the booking, canceling, rebooking issue to make use of VIP discounts, the person indicated that it was targeting people that were booking then cancelling around the 15 day point then rebook for the discount.  He indicated it was not going after the Gold and Platium VIP members that do this.  He is also unaware of any provision that is going to give a 10 minute window to rebook a cancelled reservation to get the VIP discount.


----------



## Cheryl20772

rrlongwell said:


> Regarding the booking, canceling, rebooking issue to make use of VIP discounts, the person indicated that it was targeting people that were booking then cancelling around the 15 day point then rebook for the discount.  He indicated it was not going after the Gold and Platium VIP members that do this.  He is also unaware of any provision that is going to give a 10 minute window to rebook a cancelled reservation to get the VIP discount.


What does "targeting people" mean?  Is it forcing them to lose their reservation if they cancel with intention of rebooking?  Does this mean regular VIP's won't be able to ever do that again with much hope of  getting their discount?


----------



## rrlongwell

Cheryl20772 said:


> What does "targeting people" mean?  Is it forcing them to lose their reservation if they cancel with intention of rebooking?  Does this mean regular VIP's won't be able to ever do that again with much hope of  getting their discount?



The way it is used here, it means they will try and disrupt the rebooking effort on people they consider to be "mega-renters".  The person telling me this indicated they knew who the mega renters are.  Remember, he did indicate that the Gold and Platium people were not to be included in that portion of the project.  My guess is that this portion is just to try and limit the activity of potiential competitors to their rental businesses and not necessary scare off potiential upgrade customers to the VIP program.

Just as an interesting sideline, apparently more and more of the Wyndham Vacation Plus Resorts are entering into agreements where Wyndham takes back all their units that come back to them.  Wyndham apparently does not get pick and choose rights at the resorts insistance.  They then sell them for the Club Wyndham Access program.  If this is true, then I would think that the available pool of UDI and fixed/floating weeks that are available for re-sale will start to dry up, thereby, strengthing the re-sale value of the remaining and maybe even improve the ARP availablity at resorts were ARP is needed for non-Club Wyndham Access members (my guess is that the better timeshare intervals do not end up in the Resorts hands very often).  This may be why at least one poster observed getting Club Wyndham Access ARP is very difficult.  On a selfish note, this would not be bad for me because of my Myrtle Beach holdings (aka as "Flight to Quality").


----------



## SOS8260456

And then that begs the question of what is considered a "mega renter".


----------



## rrlongwell

SOS8260456 said:


> And then that begs the question of what is considered a "mega renter".



I do not know, I just have a little over a million points and I have been told I am considered a mega renter because some of the timeshares are in my LLC name.


----------



## ronparise

SOS8260456 said:


> And then that begs the question of what is considered a "mega renter".



Ive made 40 reservations and rented them so far this year (and Im out of points) I consider myself a hobby shop

Whats a mega renter depends I think on who you are talking to and where you are...I know a guy with 3 million points and probably makes 100 reservations a year. That seems "mega" to me but in his mind he's a hobby shop too. He sees the guy with 5 million as mega

 I think the definition would hang on this question....Is renting timeshares your primary source of your income ?   If I could make $100000 a year thats a business and you could refer to me as  Mega Renter...I would think at least 10 million points

Why Wyndham wants to target these folks is a mystery, and may have to do with the fact they want this stuff for their own rental business. But I think that they are trying to be fair to all the owners. I think they get a lot of complaints that all the good reservations are gone in the ARP window...and never come available until the Platinum VIPs discount window (when they cancel some of them

Its not unusual for a big owner to make two reservations for the same time in the arp window then a year later, cancel, cancel, rebook and upgrade to get the larger unit at the discounted price for the small unit.   Is that fair to the little guy?  keeping a unit "off the shelf" for all that time. Is that fair?  Maybe/maybe not, but I bet it generates a lot of complaints. And I think Wyndham would rather upset a few big owners to keep the masses happy

One way for Wyndham to solve this "problem" is to creat a waiting list like they have in our sister companies, Worldmark. and RCI And if this is what they do, it will end the business of renting our Wyndham reservations as we know it (or at least as the Platinum VIPs know it)

For the record,  RRlongwell is I thing right. They have a new system in place and its being tested, The folks I talk to think it will be out by October (coincidental with the new VIP levels) Whether or not there will be  a waiting list, I dont know,,,They wont tell me that


----------



## Cheryl20772

rrlongwell said:


> The way it is used here, it means they will try and disrupt the rebooking effort on people they consider to be "mega-renters".  The person telling me this indicated they knew who the mega renters are.  Remember, he did indicate that the Gold and Platium people were not to be included in that portion of the project.


But doesn't a "mega renter" have to be at least Platinum to play the cancel rebook game?  How can they both "target" them and "not include" them at the same time?  

You are not a mega renter and yet you say they may target you just the same after you chose to put your deeds into an LLC.  This sounds highly discriminatory and potentially grounds for legal action against Wyndham- if you could prove it.  I hope you are documenting your communications.


----------



## rrlongwell

Cheryl20772 said:


> But doesn't a "mega renter" have to be at least Platinum to play the cancel rebook game?  How can they both "target" them and "not include" them at the same time?
> 
> You are not a mega renter and yet you say they may target you just the same after you chose to put your deeds into an LLC.  This sounds highly discriminatory and potentially grounds for legal action against Wyndham- if you could prove it.  I hope you are documenting your communications.



Some of the documents I believe are public record with the BBB of Central Flordia.  Thanks for the concern, do not worry, my documents are in order.  I am an owner of multiple timeshare locations with Wyndham and have no intention of suing them.  I think they have a great product and a wild sales staff.  I executed a restructuring of my mother's Platium account on the terms that I wanted and not theirs.  That is why I believe a deeded ownership is much better than Club Wyndham Access, Wyndham does not have unlimited authority with the deeded timeshares.  A number of sales locations push or did push the buy to rent through Wyndham program.  So, it appears that if you support their rental program you are OK.  Acutally, from Wyndham's point of view, that is a good practice, the owner takes the risk, pays the costs and Wyndham gets 30 to 40 percent Commission.  Now that is a asset light stratagey.  

My post did not say they targeted the Platium owners, in fact it indicted the person I was talking to indicted that Gold and Platium members were not included in that part of the program.  It was the mega renters that were cancelling shortly beforet the 15 day window then re-booking at the discount.  My guess this would primiarily impact the non-VIP Platium and Gold members becasue if they were smart, that is done well befor the 15 day cancellation period for a reservation.

We can think the Wyndham definition of Mega Renter is whatever we want, however, the defition is actually how Wyndham defines it.  I have never seen a defition of it.

As for the question of does someone need to be Platium to use the book, cancel, rebook trick, absolutly not.  Resale owners and owners at any level of VIP status can participate in this activity.  I have not used it, but I believe Wyndham does have a "Resort Special" program for last minute reservations.  I just checked the current availability, I am very impressed with the non-VIP benifits being offered under this program.  I cannot help but note all of the Wyndham Resorts I own at are running significat specials.  Check out the Myrtle Beach and Smokey Mountain locations as my examples.  If I am being targeted, it is because of the Myrtle Beach and Smokey Mountain deeded timeshares I own and not the mega renter designation.

https://www.wyndhamvacationresorts.com/ffr/member/href.do?id=PROM-0000025


----------



## rrlongwell

ronparise said:


> ... Whether or not there will be  a waiting list, I dont know,,,They wont tell me that



I was told by Coroporate Wyndham that a waiting list was part of the Voyager roll-out that is going into effect.  Whether it survives that testing phase, I do not know.  You are right, getting information out of Wyndham is like pulling teeth.  Maybe we should pass the hat for contributions to hire a dentist to assist in getting the information.

Update:  The following is the only internet discription of Voyager by Wyndham that I could locate:

WVO [Wyndham Vacation Ownership] has begun a multiyear initiative called Project Voyager, which is designed to improve our inventory and reservation systems. The goal is to get our owners on more booked vacations each and every year. Our owner satisfaction, which is extremely high, is tied to the frequency with which the user vacation ownership. And with higher satisfaction comes multiple benefits, such as higher upgrade sales, improved lead generation, increased on-time payments and most importantly, a better experience for our owners. 

Please take note:  The goal of Voyager is to get "our owners on more booked vacations".  This goal is not inconsistant with other threads that are discussing problems that may be related to computer changes that appear to be happening.  It is also very consistent with what appears to be growing emphise on the rental businesses (presumably and not the owner's customers).

http://seekingalpha.com/article/265...sses-q1-2011-results-earnings-call-transcript

http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=166182

http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=167001

http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=164292

http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=165756


----------



## rrlongwell

Here is another related link:

http://tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=168011


----------



## rrlongwell

rrlongwell said:


> Here is another related link:
> 
> http://tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=168011



http://tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=168128


----------



## rrlongwell

*Waiting List*

The following is taken from the 2011-2012 Members Directory, page 332:

"If a reservation request cannot be confirmed, the member can elect to be placed on a cancellation or wait list or can request an alternate reservation."

http://www.nxtbook.com/nxtbooks/wyndham/memberdirectory11-12/#/342

Owner Care and the Members Directory are now talking of a wait list, Skyline Towers sales said one is not coming.

Just got of the phone with Andrew of Owner Care.  This fall or this Winter is when the call center is expected expected to be able to participate in Waitlist program.  It was projected for this Summer but is on hold until a May computer upgrade.  He indicated that apparently the current computer may not be able to handle the program.  The current version of the wait list is being used by the resorts for when Wyndham makes a reservation for a person, they show up at the resort, and there is unexpected unavailablity of their room due to weather issues, overbooking by Wyndham, etc.

My guess is that this explains what a couple of other threads have raised were a fixed week owner could not get their room.  The resort needs to put the Wyndham Customer somewhere.  It appears in this case, the owner losses since the Wyndham Management Company controls access to those rooms.

It appears the wait list program is up and running in a limited form primarly being used, at this point, to cover reservations made by Wyndham were the room(s) are not available.

I attempted to use this provision and was not permitted to.  The above was the explaination.  It does appear the Mega Renters and fixed week owners, and floating week owners may be going to have increasing problems under this system.

This almost has to be the "capture" program made reference to in another thread.

For Ron:  For the answer to your quest for a listing of ARP availability at specific resorts under the Club Wyndham Acess program, Andrew indicated it is the resorts that identify the room availability for Wyndham.  Presumably, this would also include room availability for the ARP program.  That would be one of the reasons that the answer may be a moving number.

A thought just occurred to me on how the wait list could turn out to be a major VIP Platium Benifit under some circumstances.  If a Platium Member can travel under short notice, just put your name on the wait list at the 60 day out point and pick up one of the cancelations.  Same holds true for the multi-million holder of points that are Platium Members, they just join as many wait lists as their points can support.


----------



## pacodemountainside

RR: 


Need to clarify major misconception!



Wyndham Management Company has nothing to do with reservations. Once Wyndham  has sold you a   UDI contract, the underlying deed is converted to symbolic points and all reservations are handled by by VOI Trust which all owners pay a fee to provide common  services  and  pay RCI membership. Yes, VOI Trust is "run"  by three Wyndham executives  but they do not get involved in  daily reservations.



This also documents why sales person claiming to be  your personal rep and can get you hot reservations is lying. They have no access to inventory. Likewise,  when they say MF  are going at  some  resort  or resort  specific claim  they are lying unless  spouse or drinking buddy works there  and  leaks  confidential information.


 Wyndham's 

 only interest is,  if you financied collecting  monthly loan payment. Otherwise,  deeded rights are  at Resort where HOA  runs the railroad. Also, Wyndham does  control  Developer inventory  and can use as it sees fit, i.e.  giving 154K buyer  bonus 154K points to get up to VIP temporarily.



As far as fixed weeks and floating  fixed weeks  nothing to do with VOI inventory.   Fixed week owner  shows up at designated time  and place  and hops in  room.    Floating fixed week like my AVP  calls  totally  different reservation system.  No ARP, HK credits,  transaction fees, etc.  If I pay MF can book at least 18 months out.



At  a given resort there  may be several inventory buckets such   as,   ARP,   CWA,  RCI, Developer, Fixed week,  floating fixed week,  WorldMart,etc.  Each has restricted access.



Rotating Priority List(RPL)  is an option.



Yes, I have never had a problem when trying to make CWA reservation  and getting NA having VC  say none in ARP either or lots in ARP  bucket go for 10 month mark!


----------



## rrlongwell

pacodemountainside said:


> ... Need to clarify major misconception!  Wyndham Management Company has nothing to do with reservations ...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Fact Check:
> 
> I am not saying you are wrong.  Wyndham advised me that a major feature of the multi-year roll-out of the Voyager program is to link the resort systems up with the Central Wyndham Reservations System.  True not True?  take your pick.  Also, for your information, I believe that the Management Company for the Fairshare Plus Trust (VOA) is Wyndham.
> 
> On your major point, I will defer to the below listed link.  Please note paragraph 2 where the Wyndham Worldwide press release describes the Wyndham Management Company (Wyndham Vacation Ownership).  It specifically lists reservations as on of its functions.
> 
> http://www.wyndhamworldwide.com/media/press-releases/press-release?wwprdid=1048
Click to expand...


----------



## pacodemountainside

RR

Speculating on what Wyndham might roll out in the future is like predicting weather or stock market tomorrow. What a Wyndham employee verbalizes today
and $5.00 will get you a cup of coffee at Starbucks or a Big Mac and fries..

When Wyndham Forums web site comes back up I can read VOI Trust documents dated 1991 as ammended. Offhand, I was not aware Trust had a Management Company. I thought they were free standing operation that hired experts like lawyers and accountants as required.  Indeed Wyndham does act as manager for resorts under long term sweetheart  contracts signed when they were the Board. Wyndham also handles deeding for resorts for unconscionable fee of $299 for resales.

Wyndham is also pushing its WAAM program getting away from brick and motar. Desert Blue is mothballed and only opened a couple new resorts   during last couple years.

I think press release is referring to EH subsidary which specializes in reservations/rentals!



Paco


----------



## rrlongwell

pacodemountainside said:


> ... When Wyndham Forums web site comes back up I can read VOI Trust documents dated 1991 as ammended. Offhand, I was not aware Trust had a Management Company. I thought they were free standing operation that hired experts like lawyers and accountants as required ...



I like you, tried to find the Plan documents on-line.  I was unable to find any still up either.

Update:  Just found the following link, check out paragraph number 3.  This is a real old document.  Read the developer names as the for profit Wyndham as successors.

http://webspace.webring.com/people/wi/iowahawkgeo/04.html

The following is an extract from the above link.  Read FairShare Plus Program Fee as the program fee that is now being charged.

FairShare Plus Program Fee


The Program Fee is used to pay the following operating and administrative expenses:

Reservations and customer service personnel

Telephone and computer systems

Member directories and updates

Annual audits

Membership in an international exchange company

Other related expenses


----------



## vacationhopeful

Oh, please --- do you boys think for one second that the TRUST is anything more than a big spreadsheet of points (and unbalanced one at that)? Trust with lawyers? Auditors? Independant actions from corporate Wyndham? This is a company of sales swinging dudes, who play by their own rules.

Why do you think things are getting messed up with stealing fixed weeks? EH is renting out whatever they think is empty - no matter who owns it. The computer geeks are writing code - not for a waitlist, but to feed cancelled inventory (preceived empty inventory to the EH) - the rental arm of the company.

JMHO,

PS: Voyager is a Star Trek TV series.


----------



## pacodemountainside

Linda:

What planet are you on?

If you would like a copy of CPA audited VOI  Financials just send their controller in Vegas an e-mail    russel.cook@wyndhamvo.com 

Incidentally these are   presented at anual meeting in May in Orlando.

Trust agreement  specifically states at 60 days   EH   can take 90%  of VOI inventory for  reasonabale fee which  in practice is  zippo.  At 30 days 100%.

They don't have steal any thing.

"Fairfield may reserve, up to a maximum of sixty (60) days in advance of the first day of occupancy, the right to use unreserved units for its own purposes including renting to the public, provided it pays the occupancy related expenses for the use of such unit. As a result of Fairfield's use, there will be less space available for Members' use, however Fairfield may not reserve the last 10% of available occupancy for a unit until thirty (30) days prior to the first day of intended use."



Paco


----------



## rrlongwell

pacodemountainside said:


> Linda:
> 
> What planet are you on?
> 
> If you would like a copy of CPA audited VOI  Financials just send their controller in Vegas an e-mail    russel.cook@wyndhamvo.com
> 
> Incidentally these are   presented at anual meeting in May in Orlando.
> 
> Trust agreement  specifically states at 60 days   EH   can take 90%  of VOI inventory for  reasonabale fee which  in practice is  zippo.  At 30 days 100%.
> 
> They don't have steal any thing.
> 
> Paco



What you are referring to is Wyndham's rights for timeshare use under the Trust's control and not the fixed weeks.  It is my understanding that if the provisions you cite are used then the for profit Wyndham needs to make payments for costs incured to the VOA(s).  What Linda is talking about is the for profit Wyndham Arm just using fixed week ownership intervals without any payments.

P.S.  I did not research it, but, I wonder if their former Auditors were Arther Anderson.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arthur_Andersen


----------



## jjmanthei05

rrlongwell said:


> ... it means they will try and disrupt the rebooking effort on people they consider to be "mega-renters".  The person telling me this indicated they knew who the mega renters are.  Remember, he did indicate that the Gold and Platium people were not to be included in that portion of the project...



This doesn't make sense to me. I would guess every mega renter is a gold or more realistically a platinum owner. Also I would have to say looking at it from a numbers perspective that a mega renter would be someone who rents out 50 - 60 reservations a year. I can't see how it would be less than that since the maximum free guest certs they give out is 30 and how can they complain if they are giving you that many. The easiest way to limit mega renters is to limit the number of guest certs per year an account can use. If you limit it to 30 or 40, that would put an end to "mega renters" right there...

Jason


----------



## am1

jjmanthei05 said:


> This doesn't make sense to me. I would guess every mega renter is a gold or more realistically a platinum owner. Also I would have to say looking at it from a numbers perspective that a mega renter would be someone who rents out 50 - 60 reservations a year. I can't see how it would be less than that since the maximum free guest certs they give out is 30 and how can they complain if they are giving you that many. The easiest way to limit mega renters is to limit the number of guest certs per year an account can use. If you limit it to 30 or 40, that would put an end to "mega renters" right there...
> 
> Jason



Wyndham would loose a lot of money by limiting the number of guest fees that can be issued. Also sales would lose a lot of people that go through their sales tour.


----------



## jjmanthei05

am1 said:


> Wyndham would loose a lot of money by limiting the number of guest fees that can be issued. Also sales would lose a lot of people that go through their sales tour.



if you set it to 40, 50 or even 60 guest certs, that would effect less than .01% of all owners and not cut into Wyndham's bottom line to much. Also no one or should I say very very very rarely is someone coming through a sales presentation and wanting to purchase 5 million + points and get turned off by only 50 guest certs per year. If Wyndham wanted to limit "mega renters" which would be a PR move to appease the rest of the owners this would be the easiest way to do it and not mess with "10 min windows" or some magical program to limit mega renters based on some algorithm in their system. If they are concerned about the bottom line then they wont touch the mega renter at all.

Jason


----------



## SOS8260456

jjmanthei05 said:


> The easiest way to limit mega renters is to limit the number of guest certs per year an account can use. If you limit it to 30 or 40, that would put an end to "mega renters" right there...
> 
> Jason



misread, therefore my comments were inappropriate.


----------



## am1

jjmanthei05 said:


> if you set it to 40, 50 or even 60 guest certs, that would effect less than .01% of all owners and not cut into Wyndham's bottom line to much. Also no one or should I say very very very rarely is someone coming through a sales presentation and wanting to purchase 5 million + points and get turned off by only 50 guest certs per year. If Wyndham wanted to limit "mega renters" which would be a PR move to appease the rest of the owners this would be the easiest way to do it and not mess with "10 min windows" or some magical program to limit mega renters based on some algorithm in their system. If they are concerned about the bottom line then they wont touch the mega renter at all.
> 
> Jason



It is about the number of guests that renters send to the resort not that a person on a sales presentation would be turned off by not being able to add more than 40-50 guests per year.

I do not think Wyndham can limit the number of guest certificates anyways.  It is my property.


----------



## jjmanthei05

am1 said:


> It is about the number of guests that renters send to the resort not that a person on a sales presentation would be turned off by not being able to add more than 40-50 guests per year.
> 
> I do not think Wyndham can limit the number of guest certificates anyways.  It is my property.



But with that same logic they wouldn't be able to do anything to mega renters because "it's their property and they can do with it how they please" but the owners manual states that "The program is for a Member's own personal use and enjoyment and not for any commercial purposes." By that logic they can limit how many other people you can give units\rent to. This comes back to the same argument that they shouldn't be able to block people from selling their points to other members to use but they can/did. When you play in their sandbox with their toys you have to play by their rules. 

Jason


----------



## rrlongwell

jjmanthei05 said:


> ... "When you play in their sandbox with their toys you have to play by their rules ...



That is one way of looking at it.  I have seen/heard of a number of lawsuits that challenged/are challinging Wyndham's ability to do this.

If I remember the owner's directory correctly, it mentioned, something to the effect that the on-line members directory might not be the most up to date verision of the rules.

Owner Listings for Wyndham for Extra Holidays, 800 446-1860,  

1.	 Reserve 2 nights up to a week
2.	 Book reservation for Club Wyndham Access resorts (46 resorts are available for rental though Extra Hollidays to Club Wyndham Plus Members).
3.	 Recommend three or four nights
4.	Sign contract 
5.	Fill out form
6.	Send reservation 
7.	40 percent commission
8.	Cancelation can be made up to 17 days prior
9.	Nothing on the web site on this program


----------



## jjmanthei05

rrlongwell said:


> That is one way of looking at it.  I have seen/heard of a number of lawsuits that challenged/are challinging Wyndham's ability to do this.



When I see the changes I will believe it...

Jason


----------



## rrlongwell

jjmanthei05 said:


> When I see the changes I will believe it...
> 
> Jason





Dear Owner,

Thank you for your interest in the Extra Holidays by Wyndham rental program.   

Extra Holidays, LLC, A subsidiary of Wyndham Vacation Resorts, Inc. Operates a vacation rental program for condominium and timeshare accommodations. As an owner you have the option of using the services provided by Extra Holidays by Wyndham. 

If you find you are unable to use your Club Wyndham Plus vacation reservation, fixed or floating week, Extra Holidays by Wyndham will be happy to list your confirmed reserved accommodations for rent on your behalf, subject to terms and conditions of the Extra Holidays Vacation Time Listing Agreement. Please note that there is no guarantee that your accommodations will be rented or on the amount, if any, you may receive in connection with the rental.

To participate in the rental program, please follow the steps below.
•	Club Wyndham Plus points owners must book a reservation with a Club Wyndham Plus counselor
•	Float week owners must contact their member services group to select a 
week 
•	Please fill out (1) Vacation Time Listing Agreement per reservation/week
      that you want to place up for rent.
•	Please call Extra Holidays at least seventeen (17) days prior to the arrival date to check on status of your rental listing
•	All owners must return the signed, completed agreement to us at least 30 days prior to arrival via fax, or to the following address:



Extra Holidays by Wyndham
Attention: Vacation Time Listing Program
8427 South Park Circle #500
Orlando, FL 32819

Owner Rental fax: 951-344-8227
Owner Rental: 800-446-1860  Ext. 2
Email: ownerrentals@extraholidays.com


Sincerely, 
Extra Holidays by Wyndham


----------



## rrlongwell

jjmanthei05 said:


> When I see the changes I will believe it...
> 
> Jason



The following is a extract from the Extra Holiday's contract (Please note paragraph 1 talks of the owner renting their timeshare as a "last choice" option.

"EXTRA HOLIDAYS®
VACATION TIME LISTING AGREEMENT
We want to be your last choice!This rental program has been designed as your last “non-vacation” option. Timeshares are purchased for vacationing; an
opportunity to enjoy special moments with family and friends. The first choice should always be to use or exchange your vacation reservation every year. And,
of course, you always have the option of letting a friend or relative use your vacation reservation if you are unable to do so. Your last choice should be to rent
your vacation. However, we know that vacations are not always possible, and if you can’t use all or part of your vacation reservation this year, Extra Holidays®
can assist you.
The Extra Holidays® Vacation Time Listing Program (the “Program”) has been designed to try to provide you with some income for your unused vacation
reservation. This is not a “get rich quick” program and you are not excused from your financial obligations to your association, but rather this is a service
provided to help prevent any vacation from going unused. JUST READ, SIGN & RETURN THIS AGREEMENT. IT’S THAT SIMPLE…
Complete the blank sections below, indicating your name, address and contact information, as well as the information regarding the
vacation reservation you wish to place in the Program. Be sure that ALL owners sign where indicated.
Mail the completed and signed Agreement to: Extra Holidays®
Attention: Vacation Time Listing Program
8427 South Park Circle, Ste. 500
Orlando, FL 32819
We will place your vacation reservation indicated below in the Program according to the season and unit classification. Please note:
Fixed weeks will retain their original reservation dates, provided no fixed week reservations shall be accepted more than 12 months in
advance of the check-in date.
Floating weeks will only be accepted into the Program with a confirmed reservation date, provided no floating week reservations shall be
accepted more than 12 months in advance of the check-in date.
Subject to the above, you may place all or part of your vacation reservation in the Program.
We are unable to accept any reservation deposited with an exchange company.
You must be current on all maintenance fees and assessments billed and due to your association for calendar year associated with your
reservation (“Reservation Year”) in order to be eligible to participate in the Program. In the event that we receive notice of your
delinquency, we reserve the right to remove your vacation reservation from the Program.
Your priority in the Program will be determined by the date we receive your fully completed and signed Vacation Time Listing Agreement.
Incomplete or inaccurate information may result in a delay or inability to include your reservation in the Program.
Your placement of the reservation into the Program shall at all times remain subject to any use restrictions, reservation guidelines or
cancellation policies imposed upon the reservation by your association.
If your vacation reservations (or any part thereof) are rented through this Program, you will receive sixty percent (60%) of the
Net Proceeds from the rental.
Extra Holidays® must receive contracts a minimum of 30 days prior to date of rental.
Read this Vacation Time Listing Agreement carefully and in full as it contains important information relative to placing your vacation reservation with Extra
Holidays® so that the same may be enjoyed by other vacationers. Please note that this Agreement is subject to all of the Terms and Conditions attached hereto
and made a part hereof. You must fill out one Vacation Time Listing Agreement per vacation reservation that you want to place up for rent …"


----------



## rrlongwell

jjmanthei05 said:


> When I see the changes I will believe it...
> 
> Jason



https://www.wyndhamvacationresorts....ent_2nd_Amended_to_2nd_Amendment_2.4.2010.pdf

Please consult the above link under the new paragraph number 12.01.  This paragraph state, "A member may not transfer his property interest nor permit other to use the points associated with associated therewith unless a member is current in his payments ..."  

I do not see any other barrier preventing him/her from permitting someone else to use the points associated with the account.


----------



## bnoble

Honestly, I can't tell if you are posting with irony, or you really believe what you say.

I really hope it is the former.


----------



## bnoble

> I do not think Wyndham can limit the number of guest certificates anyways. It is my property.


But you grant usage of the property to the VOA in return for being a member of the trust, and are thereby subject to the trust's rules.  A converted fixed-week owner can withdraw the week from the trust, and do whatever they want with that week.  But, only that week, nothing else controlled by the VOA.  I'm not sure what the equivalent mechanism (if any) is for UDI deeds, as I do not own one.  And, for CWA Memberships, there definitely isn't an equivalent; the property is never "owned" by the "Member."


----------



## rrlongwell

bnoble said:


> Honestly, I can't tell if you are posting with irony, or you really believe what you say.
> 
> I really hope it is the former.



No irony, as far as I can tell it is real.  I am exploring this avenue and may try it to see if it actually works.


----------



## learnalot

rrlongwell said:


> https://www.wyndhamvacationresorts....ent_2nd_Amended_to_2nd_Amendment_2.4.2010.pdf
> 
> Please consult the above link under the new paragraph number 12.01.  This paragraph state, "A member may not transfer his property interest nor permit other to use the points associated with associated therewith unless a member is current in his payments ..."
> 
> I do not see any other barrier preventing him/her from permitting someone else to use the points associated with the account.



Longwell,

If you think this means you can transfer points to other members for their use, you are mistaken.  There is language in the Directory - which I am not going to look up because I am using my phone - that specifically prevents this previously allowed practice.  The passage you reference only clarifies that your account must be current in order to SELL your ownership interests or to make reservations for yourself or guests.


----------



## rrlongwell

learnalot said:


> Longwell,
> 
> If you think this means you can transfer points to other members for their use, you are mistaken.  There is language in the Directory - which I am not going to look up because I am using my phone - that specifically prevents this previously allowed practice.  The passage you reference only clarifies that your account must be current in order to SELL your ownership interests or to make reservations for yourself or guests.



I am not talking about transferring points to another member.  The system, as I now understand it, is that the owner needs to make the booking directly with wyndham then puts a guest pass on it.  Since that is now a actual reservation, it can be transferred for free or rented or whatever.


----------



## learnalot

rrlongwell said:


> I am not talking about transferring points to another member.  The system, as I now understand it, is that the owner needs to make the booking directly with wyndham then puts a guest pass on it.  Since that is now a actual reservation, it can be transferred for free or rented or whatever.



I have no idea what you are suggesting.  Are you suggesting it is new that owners have to make reservations themselves?  It's not.  Are you suggesting that reservations can be transferred for free to other members without the use of a guest certificate?  That's not correct.  After a reservation has been made, it can't even be changed to a co-owner's name on the same account without using a guest certificate.

Where the passage you referenced refers to "transferring property interest", it is referring to SELLING your ownership, not to reservations.


----------



## jjmanthei05

jjmanthei05 said:


> rrlongwell said:
> 
> 
> 
> That is one way of looking at it.  I have seen/heard of a number of lawsuits that challenged/are challinging Wyndham's ability to do this.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When I see the changes I will believe it...
> 
> Jason
Click to expand...


Just to clarify my statement was about the lawsuits actually changing how the system is working...

As for extra holidays...good luck. 

Just for fun (for an owners update) I looked up rental rates of what Wyndham was charging and after taking away their 40% It looked to me like I had to own close to 2,500,000 points all rented through extra holidays with an 80% rental rate at their best scenario which was sometime in December where EH was charging top dollar and it was still value for us for me to cover the MF payments on my 532,000. A lot of the rentals I saw wouldn't even cover the MF, let alone make money.

I looked one up quick. If you booked 7 nights at bonnet creek for a 3 bedroom deluxe over 4th of July week, it would cost you 308,000 points which at $5/K comes out to $1,540. EH is currently renting it for $3,253. So after you take their 40% fee you end up with $411 or a profit of $1.33/k. Doesn't seem like a whole lot of margin for error especially if they only rent the 4th by itself and the rest of your week sits vacant. 

Jason


----------



## rrlongwell

learnalot said:


> I have no idea what you are suggesting.  Are you suggesting it is new that owners have to make reservations themselves?  It's not.  Are you suggesting that reservations can be transferred for free to other members without the use of a guest certificate?  That's not correct.  After a reservation has been made, it can't even be changed to a co-owner's name on the same account without using a guest certificate.
> 
> Where the passage you referenced refers to "transferring property interest", it is referring to SELLING your ownership, not to reservations.



I am not suggesting anything, the cited passages speak for themselves.  If you have questions pertaining to Guest Passes, the Members Directory lays out when and where they are needed.  Also, just for your info, in my experience, you are right if you do the owner to owner routine through the computer.  All you need to do is call reservations and they will confirm it is owner to owner and restore the guest pass.


----------



## rrlongwell

http://tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=173032


----------



## learnalot

rrlongwell said:


> http://tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=173032



Is this directed at my above post from over a month ago?  I was not referring to the ability of an owner to transfer a reservation to ANY owner.  I was referring to transferring to another owner on the same account which, due to their programming can only be done with a guest cert once the reservation has been made.  I would suggest either speaking with a supervisor or owner relations to see about having the cert restored in such a case.


----------



## rrlongwell

learnalot said:


> Is this directed at my above post from over a month ago?  I was not referring to the ability of an owner to transfer a reservation to ANY owner.  I was referring to transferring to another owner on the same account which, due to their programming can only be done with a guest cert once the reservation has been made.  I would suggest either speaking with a supervisor or owner relations to see about having the cert restored in such a case.



No, actually, I was responding to a post in the other thread and just crossed linked the two.  Post numbers 148 and 150 were the ones of interest in response to the other thread (see post 2).


----------



## davesama

*Cost of the VIP Program*

Does anyone know who picks up the cost associated with the VIP program?  Wyndham is the beneficiary as they use the VIP benefits as a carrot to sell the timeshare properties to the original buyers.  However, the VIP members get to use more points, free transactions, unlimited housekeeping, etc. etc. and it has to cost someone some money.  Are non-VIP members of Wyndham picking up the tab for the VIP members?


----------



## jjmanthei05

davesama said:


> Does anyone know who picks up the cost associated with the VIP program?  Wyndham is the beneficiary as they use the VIP benefits as a carrot to sell the timeshare properties to the original buyers.  However, the VIP members get to use more points, free transactions, unlimited housekeeping, etc. etc. and it has to cost someone some money.  Are non-VIP members of Wyndham picking up the tab for the VIP members?



The long and short answer is no. The person picking up the tab is wyndham sales because the extra points that VIPs use is offset by pulling points out of the pool Wyndham hasn't sold yet. There is a line item on their financials for VIP cost which last year was somewhere around $12,000,000.

Jason


----------



## GUNNERWATTS

***UPDATE***

VIP levels are changing again...  I bombarded this past weekend with the need to purchase more points to be VIP again.  Not sure how this is a thing to celebrate!  I walked out of the sales department and became a TUG member!


----------



## mnmrsjjp

Who says they are changing again?  a sales weasel?????


----------



## Ty1on

GUNNERWATTS said:


> ***UPDATE***
> 
> VIP levels are changing again...  I bombarded this past weekend with the need to purchase more points to be VIP again.  Not sure how this is a thing to celebrate!  I walked out of the sales department and became a TUG member!



I think you were being deceived.


----------



## am1

I hope they do and with the points inflation they probably should.  How long ago was the last increase?  A very good way to drive short term sales before the increase.


----------



## pacodemountainside

Last change was either October or November 2012.

Again, a compelling reason to buy from me right now!


----------

