# [merged] David Walley's Resort - Celebrity Resorts - Trouble



## tarooka

Last week I received a letter from David Walley's Property Owners Association indicating a special assessment of $964 with no other information. A Special Meeting is scheduled for February 21, 2010 at the property. There is also a "Proxy" form enclosed to sign as well.

After researching a bit, this looks like a conccerted effort accross multiple propertys controlled by Celebrity to wring money out of property owners for dubious reason.

I intend to write a letter to the Nevada Department of Real Estate and Nevada Attorney General. 

Any other suggestions or thoughts?


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## Passepartout

SA's happen. Sometimes they are necessary to repair unforseen structural problems with the resort. Sometimes it's just a regular part of the maintenance- for instance one 'extra' MF every few years for new furniture. That's what HOA's are supposed to be alert to and protect the associated owners from.

Better would be a letter to the HOA asking what the SA is for, then either attending the HOA meeting or assigning your vote (the proxy) to someone who will attend and vote your wishes. Having been there on one of my ownerships, and carrying a handful of owner's proxys, I can attest it's really hard to buck the will of the board.

A letter to the AG or State R.E. Dept is whistling into the wind.

Best wishes.

Jim Ricks


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## jlr10

tarooka said:


> Last week I received a letter from David Walley's Property Owners Association indicating a special assessment of $964 with no other information. A Special Meeting is scheduled for February 21, 2010 at the property. There is also a "Proxy" form enclosed to sign as well.
> 
> After researching a bit, this looks like a conccerted effort accross multiple propertys controlled by Celebrity to wring money out of property owners for dubious reason.
> 
> I intend to write a letter to the Nevada Department of Real Estate and Nevada Attorney General.
> 
> Any other suggestions or thoughts?



If the proxy is from Celebrity be sure to read it carefully.  The ones they sent out for Hanalei Bay were good for 7 years.  Also keep an eye on the Board of Directors.  Don't be surprised if most, if not all, of the directors are or become Celebrity Employees.  Their MO has been to take over the board and then the resort.  Dave and Walleys used to have the same ownership as Hanalei Bay.  The mangement contract was sold to Celebrity at HBR before the owners united and caused them to agreed to part ways.


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## dougp26364

As mentioned above, SA's happen. Polo Towers had one a couple of years ago in excess of $1,000 for two bedroom units for a complete refurbishment. IMHO, the main cause of an SA is mismangement by the BOD and HOA. Essentially they don't plan for necessary refurbishments and, as a result, don't collect adaquate funds for the cash reserves.

In all fairness owners constantly complain about high MF's. The easist place to skimp on MF's is the cash reserve fund. Unfortunately, this only leads to an SA every 15 to 20 years as the timeshares become worn and dated. In order to keep them appealing and maintain exchange value plus keep them fresh looking for owners, an SA becomes necessary if they haven't planned for it by collecting and saving through cash reserves. 

It's the same for you own home. You can either save for the inevitable repair or upgrade (painting, new carpet, new appliances et....) or, you can borrow the money. HOA's don't borrow for refurbs. If they haven't saved through cash reserves they hit owners with an SA.

Before sending in any proxy I'd read the proxy very carefully and I'd want to know EXACTLY what the SA was suppose to pay for and, I'd want it in writing. I'm not into giving a management company or HOA a blank check in the form of a proxy to do whatever they think is necessary unless I know and agree with what they believe to be necessary.


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## SteveChapin

We were just at David Walley's resort last year on an II exchange.  While I have issues with the resort (too far from South Lake Tahoe for me, and the room was just small, plus they didn't provide enough dishes for 4 people), I saw absolutely nothing that would engender a special assessment.  Everything looked new and in great condition.


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## pwrshift

tarooka said:


> Last week I received a letter from David Walley's Property Owners Association indicating a special assessment of $964 with no other information.


 
That is totally unacceptable IMO.  Owners are represented by their HOA members and too often they believe no info is better.  You have a right to know exactly why and how this happened...and why there wasn't any advance warning.  Dump the HOA.

Brian


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## mjwatts

pwrshift said:


> That is totally unacceptable IMO.  Owners are represented by their HOA members and too often they believe no info is better.  You have a right to know exactly why and how this happened...and why there wasn't any advance warning.  Dump the HOA.
> 
> Brian



i just called Celebrity to find out what was going on ...basically, they gave the story that maintenance had not kept up to pace and hence the extra meeting. they said Quintas were not that good.
Basically, this doesn't sound very promosing for Walley's - if this does not pass, then fee's will jump big time next year...

Also, i want to vote no, regardless - these guys would have known the level of debt  and maintenance needs prior to buying it as part of their due dilligence processs - it's now they bought it cheap they want to squeeze owners to pay for their investment to increase in value.

Anyone interested in a timeshare?


As it stands for the proxy - the only way to vote is to send in your form, which will be applied to the majority vote - so if the majority approve the charge you are obliged to pay.


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## DWOwner

*David Walley's Special Assessment*

After reading the FAQ's regarding the DW's special assessment on the Celebrity website, I just emailed this comment to Celebrity Resorts through their website:  

Unless you offer owners major compensation for this huge extra assessment, I see only a downward spiral with more owners refusing to pay their maintenance fees, let alone the special assessment.  How about giving an incentive to owners who pay this special assessment by April 30 (or other date as appropriate) an additional two owner weeks in the building in which they have ownership to be used any time in the next two years?  I think this would be a win-win for all concerned, making the special assessment more palatable, without overtaxing DW's resort, which must have a lot of vacancies in this economy!

This special assessment is probably inevitable so the least we can do is get some sort of compensation!  Is there anyone attending the meeting who could promote or support this proposal?  Is there anyone who would be willing to email Celebrity supporting this proposal?  Time is now of the essence since the meeting is next Sunday!


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## rickandcindy23

Celebrity is a terrible management company that loves to assess, and when all is said and done, there are almost no improvements to the property after the assessment.  GEESH!  I cannot believe Celebrity keeps getting control of these otherwise great resorts.  Doesn't the developer even care who they put in charge of their resorts?  Who is looking out for the owners, and why does a former management company/ developer get to choose the new company, anyway?  It's criminal, in my opinion.


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## ccpanel

*help with David Walleys voting sunday*

I can not attend the voters meeting tomorrow(sunday) at david walleys resort near carson city and tahoe.

If you will be attending the 10am meeting-please email me and either send me your phone number or check your email for my phone number which i will send to you.

I would need to fax you my proxy papers and talk to you about how i want to vote.

Please contact me.
I will be up till 11-midnight and up again around 9am.


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## truckee1981

Rickandcindy23
I agree with your view of the current DWalley's management. I have requested minutes from previous meetings and recieved no response. I was hoping to attend the meeting today about a proposed special assessment which was not explained in the notification but there was a serious snow storm that made the trip too dangerous. I doubt the management co. had a quorum to conduct business. I think the dues for a two bedroom for 1 week should be no more than $400. At $761 it makes more sense to use a hotel!!
It looks like the management company might have a strategy to foreclose their way to total ownership. It might be time to seek legal advice regarding a class action approach.


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## linzy

*Get in the Lawsuit Line*

Attended the HOA meeting on 2/21. It was a zoo, and no decisions were made. However the owners in attendance overwhelmingly supported a No vote to asses the $900+ without further information. Also found out that Celebrity has pending lawsuits up the wazoo. So it looks like we aren't alone in utter dissatisfaction with this outfit. Mostly they seem to have these special assessments and don't do the work, but somehow do keep the funds. Also found out by going on line that they may be owned in part by an offshore firm. Not really sure who we are dealing with here. So, if any of you Wally's owners read this send your vote back as a NO! Also mark on it that you are not giving your proxy to the management. We have a lot of issues that put too many of the corporate representatives on the HOA board and find the actual owners have no leverage. It is up to the management company to deal with the people not paying their annual HOA fees. If folks have not been paying their HOA dues it makes it harder for all of us. They (the non payers) should be penalized even if it means taking them to court. But again, that is what the management company is supposed to do. Even tho' we have a "HOA" hands are tied because so many corporate people sit o n the board.


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## pianodinosaur

This is a fascinating thread that concerns all TS owners.  We are all vulnerable to unexpected fees and increases in MFs.  I suggest that we move this thread to "All Other Timeshare Systems" because I think it will get more publicity in that location.


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## tarooka

*DW Owner's advocate*



ccpanel said:


> I can not attend the voters meeting tomorrow(sunday) at david walleys resort near carson city and tahoe.
> 
> If you will be attending the 10am meeting-please email me and either send me your phone number or check your email for my phone number which i will send to you.
> 
> I would need to fax you my proxy papers and talk to you about how i want to vote.
> 
> Please contact me.
> I will be up till 11-midnight and up again around 9am.



Immediately send a note with contact information to davidwalleys@yahoo.com. This person will send you a proxy to vote against Celebrity at a meeting tentatively scheduled for the 27th.


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## carson resident

*walley's special assessment*

On day following special assessment meeting I emailed the timeshare dept of the Nevada Real Estate Division. For your information, e-mail address is realest@red.state.nv.us.
While the e-mail I sent is too long to include herein, the gist of it was as follows. 
1. Celebrity assumed management responsibility third quarter 2008 and report on their website that in fourth quarter 2008 they sensed a problem. (Due diligence??)
2. Quintus employed CPA to audit up through year 2007. Celebrity terminated and did not employ a CPA therafter.
3. BOD of POA controlled by both Quintus and Celebrity up until mgt meeting in November 2009 through their employees being assigned to officer positions, i.e., president and secretary.
4. Recently secy whose name is Craig Lewis left employment at Celebrity. I don't know why. He is however still the secy of the WPOA. 
5. Most important!! Suggested to timeshare dept that if any special assessment is approved that funds be monitored or controlled under the auspices of a state court to ensure that funds are dispensed properly.
Suggest that other members objecting to special assessment also e-mail their comments to the timeshare department at e-mail address above. Disposition of funds is shown on Celebrity's Web site. In my opinion management fees following 2010 and assuming approval of assessment will increase by as much as 50% per annum. I did not attend the Feb 21 meeting because of inclement weather in this area and I do not know whether special assessment was approved. If anyone knows for certain one way or the other this info would be extremely helpful.


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## TUGBrian

article on this very subject

http://www.recordcourier.com/article/20100224/NEWS/100229907/1062&ParentProfile=1049


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## ricoba

TUGBrian said:


> article on this very subject
> 
> http://www.recordcourier.com/article/20100224/NEWS/100229907/1062&ParentProfile=1049



40% of unpaid Maintenance Fee's is a pretty big chunk of change. 

This article is pretty frightening news, especially for owners of stand alone resorts.  While the major players are probably experiencing much of the same problem, they would in my view have more assets to weather a storm like this.

As we are probably all aware, leisure expenses like timeshares are often probably the first to go in an economic downturn.


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## dougp26364

It's sort of interesting that, while the existing timeshare units are on the brink of going out of business, the developer is laying plans to build more timeshares on the site. It seems to me that, if the developer believes they'll be able to sell additional inventory they might want to take a look at foreclosing or taking deed backs to salvage the existing property first. My thought is that it's going to be very hard to sell timeshares next to a failed timeshare project due to lack of funds from MF collections.

This is a clear example of what others have said before. Developers should give consideration to some type of deed back program. It would work both as a way to help their customers out in hard time AND to save the industry in which they earn their living. Having several failed resorts around the country will destory faith in the industry and make buyers skitsh of plunking down tens or thousand of dollars to purchase into an industry that might not be financially sound. 

If I were an owner at this resort and, if I believed that the management company was only going to hit me up for more money rather than correct the underlying problem, I'd be voting to close the resort down. It appears that it could be fast on it's way to becoming a money pit.


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## rhonda

Follow-up article posted today
Timeshare Fight may Close Walley's



TUGBrian said:


> article on this very subject
> 
> http://www.recordcourier.com/article/20100224/NEWS/100229907/1062&ParentProfile=1049


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## ricoba

rhonda said:


> Follow-up article posted today
> Timeshare Fight may Close Walley's



Man, after reading that, I am of the view, let em close the joint down.  

From what I could see in the article it looks like Celebrity is blackmailing the owners into paying the special assessment in order to pay for those who have bailed on their MF's.  

I'd vote no, and let Celebrity get stuck with the bill.  This just does not seem to be right.

Doug is right, this is a perfect opportunity for Celebrity to allow current owners to deed back and walk away.  This is as he points out a win-win situation, if they would do it.


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## ace2000

ricoba said:


> I'd vote no, and let Celebrity get stuck with the bill. This just does not seem to be right.
> 
> Doug is right, this is a perfect opportunity for Celebrity to allow current owners to deed back and walk away. This is as he points out a win-win situation, if they would do it.


 
Hope you're not advising others to walk away...  We've had that discussion on TUG before. This scenario is exactly what's going to happen across the whole industry, in the future . Of course, everyone around here is going to advise you to keep paying your fees, no matter how bad they get.


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## ricoba

ace2000 said:


> Hope you're not advising others to walk away...  We've had that discussion on TUG before. This scenario is exactly what's going to happen across the whole industry, in the future . Of course, everyone around here is going to advise you to keep paying your fees, no matter how bad they get.



I didn't advise walking away, my advice was to vote no.  

But I would be tempted to walk away if they tried to stiff me with a $900+ special assessment if all it was for was to pay for all the other stiffs who walked away.


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## ace2000

ricoba said:


> But I would be tempted to walk away if they tried to stiff me with a $900+ special assessment if all it was for was to pay for all the other stiffs who walked away.


 
Folks, let the 'shaming' begin...   

psst...  don't tell anyone else, and just between you and me... i'm in full agreement with you.


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## ricoba

ace2000 said:


> Folks, let the 'shaming' begin...
> 
> psst...  don't tell anyone else, and just between you and me... i'm in full agreement with you.



They can only shame me if I choose to participate in the argument, which I would choose not to do.

I don't get involved in those tiffs on other threads and I won't get involved with it here.


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## TUGBrian

please note the HUGE difference between a legitimate deed back of your timeshare to the resort...

and simply ceasing to pay for your timeshare.


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## ace2000

TUGBrian said:


> please note the HUGE difference between a legitimate deed back of your timeshare to the resort...
> 
> and simply ceasing to pay for your timeshare.


 
That's something that ran through my mind also. It seems like it can get complicated though.

Is there a difference between the two if you're one of the remaining owners left paying the fees? I understand that the resort has the potential to rent the week out and all that. Many TUG users have said they wish their resorts would not even accept deedbacks. Would it be alright to stop paying then, especially if there are no other alternatives? It's a very tough problem for many.

In my mind, the core problem is the fact that these weeks cannot be easily rented out for more than the fees... thereby creating a scenario where it's easier for an owner to just give up and 'walk away'.  And another scenario where the original timeshare investment is basically worthless.

And you also have situations where the resorts are hesitant to get involved in the time-consuming and money-losing process of renting out the units. And then you have many resorts that don't want to go through the process of selling weeks again.

Where will it all end? We see some of it playing out here in this story. I guess it will be the 'righteous' owners that feel a moral obligation or some other attachment to their timeshare, that will be left holding the bag, right?


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## TUGBrian

ace2000 said:


> That's something that ran through my mind also. It seems like it can get complicated though.
> 
> Is there a difference between the two if you're one of the remaining owners left paying the fees? I understand that the resort has the potential to rent the week out and all that. Many TUG users have said they wish their resorts would not even accept deedbacks. Would it be alright to stop paying then, especially if there are no other alternatives? It's a very tough problem for many.
> 
> In my mind, the core problem is the fact that these weeks cannot be easily rented out for more than the fees... thereby creating a scenario where it's easier for an owner to just give up and 'walk away'.  And another scenario where the original timeshare investment is basically worthless.
> 
> And you also have situations where the resorts are hesitant to get involved in the time-consuming and money-losing process of renting out the units. And then you have many resorts that don't want to go through the process of selling weeks again.
> 
> Where will it all end? We see some of it playing out here in this story. I guess it will be the 'righteous' owners that feel a moral obligation or some other attachment to their timeshare, that will be left holding the bag, right?



of course there is a difference, in one situation both parties are agreeing to the transaction.

in the other, only the owner is agreeing to it.


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## dougp26364

ace2000 said:


> Hope you're not advising others to walk away...  We've had that discussion on TUG before. This scenario is exactly what's going to happen across the whole industry, in the future . Of course, everyone around here is going to advise you to keep paying your fees, no matter how bad they get.



This isn't walking away so long as you're current. This is voting no on a SA that's the result of a HOA/BOD not setting enough money aside for a rainy day. This is a management company holding a gun to the head of those who are responsible and pay their bills to cover the owners who did walk away. This is not having a plan in place to agressively collect from those who don't pay. This the cost a management company or HOA/BOD pays by not having some sort of deed back/resale policy in place or other form of assistance when an owner(s) are down on their luck.

If the resort goes out of business and shuts down, bills cease. Those that are current aren't likely to suffer damage. Those that are deliquent still face the same collection actions and damage to their credit as before. The only difference will be that the bills won't keep going on for the rest of their lives. This last bill will be the last bill. 

This looks like a BIG wake up call to timeshare HOA's. Have a plan! Some timeshare companies do have ways to deed back weeks, even though it's not free it's cheaper than the chilling effect a bad debt write off can have on your credit worthiness. Two of our resorts increased bad debt write offs in their budgeting by nearly 900%. While some might not consider those move great plans, at least they have recognized the potential and have addressed it ahead of time rather than what it appears Celebrity has done. That is ignore it until it's critical, then expect the responsible owners to bail them out with no promise it will happen again. 

Would vote yes on this SA that is tatamount to blackmail? No I wouldn't. At least not without a detailed plan of how they are going to correct this mistake and what they were going to do to not have it happen again. If the only plan is to keep increasing MF's while others continue to default, I'd be saying close that sucker down and let me find another resort on the resale market that's maybe a little bit more responsible with their obligations.


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## dougp26364

ace2000 said:


> Folks, let the 'shaming' begin...
> 
> psst...  don't tell anyone else, and just between you and me... i'm in full agreement with you.



What shaming? This isn't about owners walking. This is about an HOA/BOD and their hired management company failing to plan for the future. This resort is about to cease operations because of failed planning. It's not just non-payment of MF's by 40% of the owners. It's about a poorly executed plan by the HOA/BOD and a management company that doesn't appear to communicate well with either the owners or the HOA. 

There is no shame here other than that of the management company, the HOA and the BOD of this resort. IMHO, since they were the ones in charge of stearing the ship, then they're the ones to blame for running it into the ground. If there's any shame it's on their faces, not the owners who are current.

As an aside, I had the opportunity to trade a studio unit for a two bedroom unit at this resort. I didn't pull the trigger on that exchange because I wasn't convinced that David Walley's was on firm financial ground. Looks like I made the correct decision to go with the one bedroom for two bedroom exchange into The Ridge Tahoe instead. If I could see potential problems with this resort from such a distance, I wonder why the HOA was apparently blind to it when they're right there?


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## ondeadlin

If I were an owner, I'd vote no hoping to force a closure. That's clearly a better option right now than being stuck paying special assessments at a resort were only 60 percent of the owners have paid 2010 MF.

And that 60 percent number will only go down with an assessment.


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## Tennwa

*Timeshare Going Broke?*

We received a "Special Assessment" for over $900.00 and, as I suspected, it is reported if not paid by all members (Like that's going to happen) David Walley's at Genoa NV will go under.  Where does this leave those of us who are owners?  Has anyone else run into this problem?  Any chance you could use your "membership" elsewhere? Help, please.


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## ace2000

ondeadlin said:


> If I were an owner, I'd vote no hoping to force a closure. That's clearly a better option right now than being stuck paying special assessments at a resort were only 60 percent of the owners have paid 2010 MF.
> 
> And that 60 percent number will only go down with an assessment.


 
Many miss the whole point here, or else many just don't want to see what's happening. Just last Friday, the Wall Street Journal posted an article stating that it is ok to 'walk away' from your house debt. 

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB100...43144657512.html?mod=rss_Today's_Most_Popular


What do you think is going to happen to the timeshare industry when this logic goes mainstream? As if the Wall St. Journal is not main stream enough.  Of course, based on previous discussion, many on TUG still say they're going to pay their fees no matter how bad the fees are. Just because it's the right thing to do.... sure they will. Yep, sure they will...


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## TUGBrian

another story on this topic

http://www.recordcourier.com/article/20100226/NEWS/100229885/1062&ParentProfile=1049


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## dougp26364

ace2000 said:


> Many miss the whole point here, or else many just don't want to see what's happening. Just last Friday, the Wall Street Journal posted an article stating that it is ok to 'walk away' from your house debt.
> 
> http://online.wsj.com/article/SB100...43144657512.html?mod=rss_Today's_Most_Popular
> 
> 
> What do you think is going to happen to the timeshare industry when this logic goes mainstream? As if the Wall St. Journal is not main stream enough.  Of course, based on previous discussion, many on TUG still say they're going to pay their fees no matter how bad the fees are. Just because it's the right thing to do.... sure they will. Yep, sure they will...



I agree with what your saying but, this isn't a case of walking away at this point. It's a case where so many have walked away do the remainded want to hold the bag or let it go.

Those financial guru's who speak of stratigic walking from debt are preaching the doom of all financial instrument. If enough people head this advice we'll go back to a cash only basis. Banks will rightly not want to lend money and those that have invested in banks will no longer be willing to do so. 

I'm wondering what's happened to our society when we preach that it's OK to give your word that you'll pay a debt, then change your mind when it's more of an andvantage to not pay. What they forget is it's not just the banks that lose out. It's everyone that has a dime in those banks. It's all of society when your word means nothing. It's a foolish thing to preach to the masses but, then again, we're talking about those fools on Wall Street who's narrow sighted ways only see the profit at hand, not the results for the future.


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## Mel

ace2000 said:


> Hope you're not advising others to walk away...  We've had that discussion on TUG before. This scenario is exactly what's going to happen across the whole industry, in the future . Of course, everyone around here is going to advise you to keep paying your fees, no matter how bad they get.


There is a big difference between "walking away" and deeding back your week.  I paid a much larger SA at one of my resorts - and would do it again, given the particular circumstances.

Unfortunately, it is the responsibility of the paying owner to cover the costs of operating the resort, and to cover those costs not paid by the non-paying owners.  The cost of running the resort must be shared among those who use it.

Obviously, the owners need to watch what happens with the weeks belonging to the owners who don't pay.  If the Management company, through the HOA, decides to accept deedback, or to forclose on the non-paying owners, those weeks should be revert to the HOA, not the management company.  If the management company wants to take ownership, they should be changed any back fees owed on those week - much as we would be charged if we tried to purchase a forclosed house.

Watch to make sure the developer-controlled board doesn't decide to simply turn those weeks over to the management company on the grounds that the board is not in a position to sell them (it has been done at many resorts).  If owners have outstandingloans from the purchase of their weeks, the developer could forclose on them, but again, the back fees are still due to the HOA - the HOA should insist on collecting them when the ownership transfers back to the developer.


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## timeos2

*Most timeshares would be considered great to hold 75% of retail price!*



ace2000 said:


> Many miss the whole point here, or else many just don't want to see what's happening. Just last Friday, the Wall Street Journal posted an article stating that it is ok to 'walk away' from your house debt.
> 
> What do you think is going to happen to the timeshare industry when this logic goes mainstream? As if the Wall St. Journal is not main stream enough.  Of course, based on previous discussion, many on TUG still say they're going to pay their fees no matter how bad the fees are. Just because it's the right thing to do.... sure they will. Yep, sure they will...



Heck, according to the article logic if one is 25% underwater (your property is worth 75% or less of what you paid) then it's best, financially, to walk away. Under that criteria 99% of every retail timeshare purchase made would be dumped on the day after the rescind period ended!  The only possible way to stay above 75% of cost would be a resale at good pricing. 

Yes, this is a crisis time in timeshare and this example is just one of many we're likely to see over time.


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## ace2000

Let me try one more time...

Everyone wants to clarify the difference between 'walking away' and deeding back the week. That's ok. However, the real problem is that 40% of the maintenance fees are going uncollected. I'm sure that 40% is made up of a large percentage of owners that have decided to 'walk away'...  that's my point.


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## ricoba

ace2000 said:


> Let me try one more time...
> 
> Everyone wants to clarify the difference between 'walking away' and deeding back the week. That's ok. However, the real problem is that 40% of the maintenance fees are going uncollected. I'm sure that 40% is made up of a large percentage of owners that have decided to 'walk away'...  that's my point.



Your point is clear to me and it is a good one.

I really would have to ask myself what to do if I was in the shoes of these owners who have paid MF's.  They are caught between a rock and a hard place and there doesn't seem to be an easy answer for them.  

They could walk away as some are obviously doing and just consider it all water under the bridge.  Who knows what will happen to the resort then if everyone up and quits paying?

Or they can pay they fee, yet again, will this really save the resort?  Probably in the short term, but I don't know how this can help long term????  No guarantees that this will fix the long term liability etc.

It's a tough spot to be in.


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## Mel

If I were an owner at this resort, having paid my fees, I would watch carefully to see what the HOA does with the weeks the non-paying owners are "walking away" from.  I wouldn't be surprised if the board members, being employees of the management group/developer vote to turn those weeks over to the management company to be sold by them. 

If that happens, the management company should be held liable for all back fees (and interest and any penalties) due from those week.  Realistically, they should be made to buy those weeks from the HOA, but we all know they will claim on the one hand that they are "worthless" and yet turn around and try to sell them for thousands of dollars.

I paid a rather large SA at one of my resorts, due to shenanigans between the HOA and the developer - the developer "sold" the loans from non-paying owners to the HOA, and the HOA was left with the bag.  When it was time to rebuild after a hurricane, is ended up costing $3000 per week as an assessment - and turned out to be worth every penny.

Even if the resort in this case has to close, there is underlying value in the property (if run as a commercial resort, rather than as a timeshare).  So long as the developer doesn't own a majority interest, the owners should be able to recover some value by selling the resort - and splitting the proceeds among those owners who remained current with their obligations to the resort (the HOA can and should forclose and those who do not pay, and the paying owners all end up owning a "share" of those weeks).  Also, if some portion of the resort (a single building for instance) could be converted to another use and sold, the timeshare could be reorganized much as my resort did - amend the timeshare documents and reassign units as necessary to "move" everyone into the buildings that will remain as timeshares.


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## TUGBrian

IMO if an owner deeded back his week to the resort, the resort isnt listing that week as "delinquent"...as its now owned by the resort.

the week may indeed be empty as it currently doesnt have a paying owner for the interval, but thats different than those who ARE owners, but are not paying their maint fee bills.

however, as stated above...either way the resort is not being paid the MF for the week, i just dont think situations where the resort ACCEPTS a week back from an owner, can consider that a delinquency.


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## ricoba

But isn't the question if they resort will take a deed back?  If they are in the bad shape that they apparently are in, are they going to accept deed backs?  Seems sensible to us here, but not sure management would see it as a winning proposition for them.  I just don't know.


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## dougp26364

ricoba said:


> But isn't the question if they resort will take a deed back?  If they are in the bad shape that they apparently are in, are they going to accept deed backs?  Seems sensible to us here, but not sure management would see it as a winning proposition for them.  I just don't know.



If the resort goes out of buisness and is sold off, they won't be collecting future debts. Past debts will still be owed in the bankruptcy proceedings and still be collectable. But deeds will be worthless pieces of paper except for where owners stand to collect the proceeds if the resort is sold off.

As for the current non-paying weeks, if they're deeded weeks then they'll have to go through the foreclosure process. That costs money and, depending on the laws in that area, can take time. It doesn't sound as if this resort has that sort of time and money to foreclose. 

This is were trust based ownership systems have an advantage. They can take back ownership for simple violations of the rules such as non-payment of fee's. They can also crank up the MF's to cover losses from those that don't pay. When I say advantage, I mean advantage to the management company, not the owners.


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## pamandgary

Does anyone have an update on the David Walley's situation?


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## mmills0012

This was in an email from the president of the HOA (Gary Grottke)

 In short, the special assessment was not approved, two Celebrity Directors were removed from the board and it was announced that the 3 non-Celebrity Directors had brought suit on behalf of the association to have Quintus appointed as a "Receiver" for the resort. Quintus has assumed that role and is working with the board to regain control of the resort and clear up the many open financial issues. We are in process setting up a website for owners to get current info, which should be up by the end of the day tomorrow. 

Please log in tomorrow afternoon and learn more at www.dwrinfo.com


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## dougp26364

There was an article (sorry, don't have the link) about some sketchy withdrawls from the reserve funding by Celebrity. Now it looks as if the HOA/BOD will be going after Celebrity for mismanagement of the funds. If they win it could open a floodgate of owners looking to either remove Celebrity as their management company or looking for reimbursement for funds withdrawn but nothing to show for it.


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## ricoba

While I don't have any dog in this fight, it's good to see owners step up and take back control of their resort.

I hope it works out well for the owners.


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## MJD@MTR

*Board Members Names*



tarooka said:


> Last week I received a letter from David Walley's Property Owners Association indicating a special assessment of $964 with no other information. A Special Meeting is scheduled for February 21, 2010 at the property. There is also a "Proxy" form enclosed to sign as well.
> 
> After researching a bit, this looks like a conccerted effort accross multiple propertys controlled by Celebrity to wring money out of property owners for dubious reason.
> 
> I intend to write a letter to the Nevada Department of Real Estate and Nevada Attorney General.
> 
> Any other suggestions or thoughts?


Hello Tarooka,
I am trying to find out who the board members names are for the Reno property. Would you have any info on who they are? Much appreciated. Thank you MJD


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## UWSurfer

I got this from an e-mail from Timeshare Today:

Celebrity Resorts, LLC Files Chapter 11 

Celebrity Resorts, which owns, operates or has rights to 13 resorts in six states, has filed a Chapter 11 Bankruptcy Petition as "debtor-in-possession," and is continuing to operate the resorts. Celebrity's court documents place the blame for the company's present financial plight on an intra-family dispute among owners of the company, the credit crunch being experienced by the timeshare industry, and revenue declines from the decrease in discretionary spending.


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## DWOwner

To other DW owners: 
Did anyone attend or hear what happened at the Feb 27 follow-up meeting regarding the David Walley's special assessment?  I really appreciated reading this owner's description of the Feb 21 meeting.

I also just emailed David Walley's and asked them to post minutes from Feb 27 to see their version of the meeting.


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## tarooka

*Wally World - Status - Rant*

Chaos, bad logistics and not enough coffee set the tone of the meeting on February 21 in Genoa. 400 people with seating for 40 added to the shouts of discontent. Brutal information unfolded for the first time underscores the fact no one actually reads the fine print of their sales agreement.

"40% of the owners are not paying their dues" said our HOA board Secretary. A person who is a former Quintus principal who still owns 500 weeks worth of inventory. Seems like an Ok person. At least he was articulate enough to keep things cogent in our meeting. Yes, there was seperate parallel meeting; one upstairs and one downstairs. I was downstairs.

Upstairs, the mood was worse. Windbag speakers who couldn’t keep on point. Rude attendees yelling out “fat boy liar” (the speaker is weight challenged). 

The net is the HOA only owns the timeshare units. Not the Lodge or Spa. The HOA pays Celebrity close to a 900K dollars a year to “use” the Spa. Celebrity collects that whole amount on the first business day of January. Money left over is used to maintain the time share units. 

There was not enough people present to form a quorum to vote and another meeting was scheduled for the following Saturday. 

Since that time Quintus asked the state of Nevada to become the receiver on behalf of the DW POA. 

Celebrity filed for bankruptcy in Florida, effectively blocking the Nevada judge. 

The Celebrity website is not taking reservations for David Walley’s resort. Allegedly Interval International is freezing banked weeks for trade waiting for clarification. 

My payments are all up to date. Unfortunately, I paid by check in December. 

I now completely understand what I do not own with my Walley's time share. I suspect we are in a very uphill battle with a slim chance to recover any status quo due to the separate state of the lodge / spa. 

The big grey area for me is the new Quintus helping hand; friend or foe? I do notice the no so subtle wording as to the new units waiting to be built and the opportunity to deed back your unit to escape this cluster suck.

I feel like I am in an expensive soap opera with a lot of dialog about law suits and dissed promises. 

Caveat Emptor or Semper Fidelis?


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## dougp26364

Several years ago one of the developers at a resort I owned aburtly closed the owners lounge, which had been a big part of the sales presentation and something we enjoyed using when we were at the resort. That's when I learned one simple truth, I own nothing but the one week of time I purchased inside the walls of a 2 bedroom unit. All the land, common area et.....was owned by the developer. It's that way at virtually every timeshare resort as far as I can tell.

Sure they'll sell you on the idea that you own a piece of something. The reality is all you really own is the deeded right to use a specified amount of space and specified times. It's not as if you own real property. Essentially, you own air. Everything else is rented with your MF's. 

It's a shame DW's got sucked into using a management company that has accounting issues. The HOA may find (or maybe not) that they had a fiduciary responsibility to their owners. The decision to go with Celebrity could come back to haunt them in ways they may not have anticipated (or maybe not. It's not an area of expertise for me).

I know one thing is for sure, even though it's througing money down a hole, I wouldn't give the HOA, Celebrity or any other entitiy reason to come after me for money. I'd either continue with my obligations under the agreement I signed or higher representation to make certain any steps I take aren't likely to damage me further than what's happening now. I'd protect my rights, my credit rating and find out what remedies where offered under the law if things go from bad to worse. Right now it looks as if this will get worse.


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## temper

*DW Owner*

If David Walley's simply closes up shop, what happens?  
- Will I still have to pay MF's until it re-opens (if it ever re-opens)?  
- Will it get liquidated and then I'll receive some small payment for my ownership week?  
- As an owner, I'm not really sure what I should be hoping for.  At this point, I really just want out so I can go purchase a timeshare at a better run facility like Marriot, or Hilton.


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## pamandgary

*David Walley's Resort*

Does anyone have an update on what is going on with David Walley's Resort and the Celebrity Resorts bankruptcy?


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## TUGBrian

first class said:


> Does anyone have an update on what is going on with David Walley's Resort and the Celebrity Resorts bankruptcy?



updated article discussing TPI taking over Walleys!

http://www.recordcourier.com/article/20101110/NEWS/101109856/1062&ParentProfile=1049


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## somerville

first class said:


> Does anyone have an update on what is going on with David Walley's Resort and the Celebrity Resorts bankruptcy?



Received a notice in the mail yesterday that the Bankruptcy Court in Orlando approved a settlement agreement between Celebrity Resorts Genoa Management, LLC; Celebrity Resorts Genoa, LLC; and Walley's Property Owners Association.  The agreement wasn't attached, but should be available on the US Court's PACER system for a small fee.


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## taffy19

Here is a report that you can read without having to subscribe. We liked staying at this resort around nowhere at that time but with a beautiful view on a mountain range from the hot springs mineral pools and the restaurant too. We enjoyed both but it is a long time ago so the menu may have changed. It is very close to Lake Tahoe too so there is enough to do and see.


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## somerville

iconnections said:


> Here is a report that you can read without having to subscribe. We liked staying at this resort around nowhere at that time but with a beautiful view on a mountain range from the hot springs mineral pools and the restaurant too. We enjoyed both but it is a long time ago so the menu may have changed. It is very close to Lake Tahoe too so there is enough to do and see.



I didn't see anything in your link about the terms of the settlement.  The link is to a 2011 newsletter from TPI about TPI assuming management.  According to the Bankruptcy Court order that I received, the settlement agreement with the POA is dated February 3, 2012.


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## taffy19

somerville said:


> I didn't see anything in your link about the terms of the settlement.  The link is to a 2011 newsletter from TPI about TPI assuming management.  According to the Bankruptcy Court order that I received, the settlement agreement with the POA is dated February 3, 2012.


I don't know anything about the settlement agreement of this resort but was trying to read the link of TUG since we stayed at this resort once many years ago.  Since I wasn't able to unless I subscribed, I tried to find the same story elsewhere and ended up at TPI.  I decided to share it in case other people would like to stay there in the future.

I wish you the best at your resort but TPI in the picture should make it a lot better.  We have stayed at several resorts that they managed and liked them all.


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