# Afraid of me? Awkward Owner Update Dance...



## Bigrob (Sep 5, 2015)

I have not been "eligible" to attend owner updates for some time. But checking in at Ocean Boulevard, I had apparently "cleared the list" and got scheduled for a session this morning.

About 30 minutes prior to my scheduled meeting, I received a call alerting me that they were "overbooked" for the session I was in, and could I come in this afternoon instead, and they would "throw in some extra goodies". I was also invited to come on down and grab coffee anyway, since I had already gotten up and planned to attend.

So I did... while I'm grabbing coffee, one of the reps said, are you here for your presentation? I explained what happened and he said, "we're not overbooked.. we may have been but now there's room. Wouldn't you like to go ahead and get your update now since you're already here?"

Well yes, yes I would. He scampers off after getting my file, which has a sticky note with a bunch of notes I can't quite make out. The clerk working the hospitality desk/scheduling pulls this folder out of the pile and somewhat grim-faced, hands it over to the rep who upon reading the post-it note, realizes he's stepped in it now. He comes back after 10 minutes, somewhat red-faced, and says something about, "I see what happened,it's because of your classification". I say, "What do you mean?" 

"well, it's because we're scheduling couples in the morning, see, and... erm..." Such an obvious lie, we're not off to a good start. So I ask, "so I can't attend this morning's session because my wife couldn't make it?".

"Well... it's just... the way it's classified"

Are they really that afraid I might taint the morning pool of sales fodder with the mention of the term "resale"?

I actually want to attend a session to see what I can learn about a few things and recent changes. And now is a good time to do it since the rest of the family couldn't join me.


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## artringwald (Sep 5, 2015)

The sales people get some kind of credit whenever they do a presentation, but they don't get any credit for a married couple unless both are present. DW refused to attend any more presentations, so I only can go if there's a rookie that needs some practice.


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## Passepartout (Sep 5, 2015)

I wear my TUG, "Buy Resale- Save Thousands" T-shirt and get pretty much the same treatment.


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## ronparise (Sep 5, 2015)

so how are you "classified"? I wonder

Ive had the same thing happen, where they schedule me then when I show up , refuse to see me

When I pressed I did get a guy that identified himself as the sales manager to talk to me in the lobby, but he wouldnt let me in the sales room or even have breakfast, much less, gift me


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## Bigrob (Sep 5, 2015)

ronparise said:


> so how are you "classified"? I wonder
> 
> Ive had the same thing happen, where they schedule me then when I show up , refuse to see me
> 
> When I pressed I did get a guy that identified himself as the sales manager to talk to me in the lobby, but he wouldnt let me in the sales room or even have breakfast, much less, gift me



Let's just say that when I did finally get in to talk to someone, the basis for the classification had to do with me giving Wyndham too much money. 

They were happy to talk to me once they had finished with all the high value/high probability prospects. Given the structure of the rooms here where the one-on-ones take place, it makes sense. My needs and interests are very different from most of the people they're meeting with, so ultimately I don't have a problem with it, just wish they would be honest about it up front.


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## weems637 (Sep 6, 2015)

I still get invited, and occasionally will attend.  Experienced staff will read the file and see all the resale points and quickly move on to the next shark bait.  The younger guys get frustrated and call in for reinforcements.  The supervisors give you that look and ask you to "please don't talk about resale in this room".  I'm thinking my invites will be shrinking soon.  Gonna order a TUG tshirt soon!


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## Tank (Sep 6, 2015)

IMHO  >  Not a fan of the shirts. If we want MF's to stay put, leave your shirts at home,.

They have jobs, family to provide for, and not on welfare. ( better than many) 

That big money they get helps our resorts to look good, and maintain. Sure isn't doing it on our MF's.

Lots of us bought in first, got frustrated found TUG, and learned to work it to our benefit. Preach to friends and family, worn your guests before they go to just say no, but I don't agree with wearing the T-shirts at the resorts. Any other place would be ok (IMHO)


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## SMHarman (Sep 6, 2015)

The big money pays the corporate dividends and covers initial build out and landscaping. Beyond that it is the MF that runs the resort. These are corporations not charity. 

Sent from my LT26i using Tapatalk


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## stratusnj75 (Sep 9, 2015)

I stayed at 2 different Wyndham florida properties this summer (Royal Vista and Bonnet Creek) and at both check ins, the clerk made comments, "You must have a lot of points, you are on the list of those not to schedule for update"

All of those update sessions i attended in past where sales reps couldn't convince me that by retail rather resale made sense I guess finally got them to give up on me.

Not that I was dying to spend an 1 or 2 of my vacation being frustrated and lied to was something I was looking forward to anyway.


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## vacationhopeful (Sep 9, 2015)

SMHarman said:


> The big money pays the corporate dividends and covers initial build out and landscaping. Beyond that it is the MF that runs the resort. These are corporations not charity....



Absolutely ... employees of the sales department --- not paid for by the HOA.

The employees at the Front Desk NOW doing the scheduling for the "presentations" ARE paid for by the HOA. This should be a TALKING POINT as to reimbursement for their TIME, BENEFITS and renting of space & materials from the HOA by the SALES group on every HOA financial statement as to recovery of those costs.


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## Weimaraner (Sep 9, 2015)

The quickest way for me to get my parking pass or peace & quiet on my trip is to say I'm on a trip with the girls and left the husband(s) at home. The invitation to breakfast and/or informational meeting is rescinded-or I can come...but without the free gift. The only one this hasn't worked on is Disney. I'm still invited to their open house, webinars, calls etc. They seem to be very low pressure but haven't sat in a face-to-face salesperson meeting with Disney.


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## silentg (Sep 9, 2015)

I wore my t shirt at check in, cookout and around the pool, we opted out of the presentation no one asked me about it, in fact the only timeshare conversation I had was with a woman looking to sell her timeshares, she gave me her info, because I have a friend who might be interested. The shirts are not intimidating...mine is being ignored! 
Silentg


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## Roger830 (Sep 9, 2015)

Tank said:


> IMHO  >  Not a fan of the shirts. If we want MF's to stay put, leave your shirts at home,.



I agree. 

New retail buyers is what keeps the Wyndham system running. I would never discourage a stranger at a resort where I'm staying from buying retail. They are buying a dream that resale brokers can't match. CWA is a brilliant means of unloading those foreclosed dog-weeks.


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## Shelbyd95 (Sep 9, 2015)

The most awkward update we have been to was at Palm Aire...not because we are on any list..the sales rep realized she wasn't going to sell us, stopped talking to us and stood up and just started dialing on her cell phone and walked away...when she came back she brought us to gifting.  Weird.


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## OutSkiing (Sep 12, 2015)

I would love to be un-invited to the presentations! My wife loves to sit and listen (and sometimes so do I).  We just bought our first resale contract, adding it to a couple of contracts we had previously purchased directly from Wyndham. It will be interesting to see if sales treats us any differently.

I agree we should not 'dis' the salespeople or their process. Without the developer building and selling new properties there would be no resale to be had.

I do wonder how much of that initial sales price contributes to boosting property / landscaping quality vs supporting the sales process itself. Its weird that the price gap between direct and resale is so astronomically wide.

Bob


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## raygo123 (Sep 12, 2015)

No I owned just resale with Wyndham for over 30 years and was never treated differently.  I now, own retail VIP gold bought over last couple years.  Guess they still hold out hope, in my case, it worked.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk


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## vacationhopeful (Sep 12, 2015)

OutSkiing said:


> I would love to be un-invited to the presentations! My wife loves to sit and listen (and sometimes so do I).  We just bought our first resale contract, adding it to a couple of contracts we had previously purchased directly from Wyndham. It will be interesting to see if sales treats us any differently.
> 
> <snip>....Bob



Sales will still be your buddies. If they ask, just say your sister gave you the unit. Be sure you have the sellers' names & address from the deed and then ask, why hasn't it been included as part of the VIP status to make me Platinum?

PS They will update the notes in your profile ... regarding that ownership.


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## alexadeparis (Sep 12, 2015)

raygo123 said:


> No I owned just resale with Wyndham for over 30 years and was never treated differently.  I now, own retail VIP gold bought over last couple years.  Guess they still hold out hope, in my case, it worked.
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk



ray go, what convinced you to buy retail after you had already owned resale?


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## ronparise (Sep 12, 2015)

OutSkiing said:


> I would love to be un-invited to the presentations! My wife loves to sit and listen (and sometimes so do I).  We just bought our first resale contract, adding it to a couple of contracts we had previously purchased directly from Wyndham. It will be interesting to see if sales treats us any differently.
> 
> I agree we should not 'dis' the salespeople or their process. Without the developer building and selling new properties there would be no resale to be had.
> 
> ...



Wyndham tries to keep the cost of what they sell to about 16% of what they sell it for. About 60% of the sales price is marketing and commissions and the rest is profit


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## ronparise (Sep 12, 2015)

Roger830 said:


> I agree.
> 
> New retail buyers is what keeps the Wyndham system running. I would never discourage a stranger at a resort where I'm staying from buying retail. They are buying a dream that resale brokers can't match. CWA is a brilliant means of unloading those foreclosed dog-weeks.




I agree sales is what keeps the machine running but it shouldnt require lies to make it happen

The product is a good one and the system probably the best in the world of timeshares, Why do they have to spend 60% of the sales price to sell it and on top of that lie

I think the answer is that its overpriced. Reduce the price by half and stop the lying, and watch what happens


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## TUGBrian (Sep 12, 2015)

I would completely disagree that new developer sales keep a system running, annual maintenance fees are far more important to an individual resort than retail sales prices.

this is why resales are so important, it provides the ability to replace one existing paying owner with another.


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## Bigrob (Sep 12, 2015)

ronparise said:


> I agree sales is what keeps the machine running but it shouldnt require lies to make it happen
> 
> The product is a good one and the system probably the best in the world of timeshares, Why do they have to spend 60% of the sales price to sell it and on top of that lie
> 
> I think the answer is that its overpriced. Reduce the price by half and stop the lying, and watch what happens



I too am frustrated by sales tactics. It gives the resorts, the timeshare experience, and the timesharing industry in general a bad name. However, having said that, I'm not sure cutting the price in half would address this; when I review the complaints at BBB, the price itself is not generally the biggest point of contention. It is unfulfilled promises and statements that are just not true. Those promises take various forms; whether it is the promise of an exit strategy, ability to rent for profit, or availability that doesn't generally exist.

Sometimes I wonder why this is, especially when they talk to an owner like me. For example; at my recent owner update, I was told that of course I didn't have ARP on my resale points, only on my developer-purchased points.  Wouldn't they think that if I'm in that category of having more than 100 Guest Confirmations I might just know that isn't true? Why tell such an obvious lie?

Supposedly they were trying to address the sales process and make it a more professional, streamlined, and lower pressure experience (and hopefully sprinkled with more useful, factual information). Based on my recent experience, it seems there is still some room to improve. And here's another thing that bugged me; I was checking on something specific, and what I wanted I stated clearly, and if they could have done it, I would have bought. 

It turns out they had what I was looking for, but were not able/willing to do what I wanted; instead of working on that and trying to get closer on what I was actually looking for, they kept coming back with stuff that was nothing like what I wanted. If I'm trying to buy a Tesla, please stop showing me a Ford F150.


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## Bigrob (Sep 12, 2015)

TUGBrian said:


> I would completely disagree that new developer sales keep a system running, annual maintenance fees are far more important to an individual resort than retail sales prices.
> 
> this is why resales are so important, it provides the ability to replace one existing paying owner with another.



I often agree with you, but on this point we will have to disagree. Sales is the engine the fuels growth within the Wyndham system. Maintenance fees keep the lights on at the existing resorts, and of course are vitally important; but the maintenance fees being paid does not help get new resorts in new locations on the map, which helps to make all of our ownerships more valuable by giving us more options. 

I would change the statement to; "it is new developer sales that keeps a system GROWING"... and it is that growth that is important to keep the system vibrant and attractive in the future. As much as we enjoyed visiting Fairfield Glade in the past... if Wyndham Smoky Mountains and Great Smokies Lodge had not been added, we would have lost interest in visiting TN long ago. Having new options to visit New York, Chicago, Beaver Creek, Park City, etc. etc. is definitely dependent on developer sales.


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## raygo123 (Sep 12, 2015)

I have enjoyed it for years. Wife will be retiring in a couple years so this was the time to do it.  In 2013, we bought 190,000 points, and along with our two Vida weeks became VIP silver.  Two things happened at that presentation, first, VIP, second which was verified, we were given permanent status, treated us as first time buyers.  Also simplified process.  I also have no desire to go further as we have bought additional points to VIP gold.  We were at $160/1000 and we ended up with another 25% discount.  I felt now was the time to pull the trigger.  Then in may of this year Wyndham offered us the same price, and we bought more.  In the long run we felt this to be the right decision for us, and the children if they so desire.  I  also feel that over time Wyndham is going to make it harder for resale to do business. With them. We always paid cash.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk


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## TUGBrian (Sep 12, 2015)

as far as the resort itself is concerned, its all about MF's....one needs to remember that easily 50-60% of the retail price is all tied up in marketing.

now one could argue that this staggering amount of money goes a long way into furthering the product of timesharing itself (as after all, its no doubt what entices most new owners to buy a timeshare in the first place).

However as far as a resort is concerned, maint fees are a far larger % of the bottom line than retail sales.  Once you cover the expenses (both marketing, and labor costs for the sales force)....you are only talking a few years worth of maint fees....and owners are all expected to remain owners for longer than a few years.

I guess the disconnect is how one interprets the question....are we talking about timesharing in terms of a resort....or of a developer.


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## Bigrob (Sep 12, 2015)

TUGBrian said:


> as far as the resort itself is concerned, its all about MF's....one needs to remember that easily 50-60% of the retail price is all tied up in marketing.
> 
> now one could argue that this staggering amount of money goes a long way into furthering the product of timesharing itself (as after all, its no doubt what entices most new owners to buy a timeshare in the first place).
> 
> ...



That's correct, I am definitely talking about a resort SYSTEM rather than a single resort within that system. I agree that at the individual resort level it's about the maintenance fees, making sure there are owners paying those fees, and a well-managed HOA to ensure proper reserves, an appropriate refresh/upgrade schedule, etc.


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## Ty1on (Sep 12, 2015)

Bigrob said:


> That's correct, I am definitely talking about a resort SYSTEM rather than a single resort within that system. I agree that at the individual resort level it's about the maintenance fees, making sure there are owners paying those fees, and a well-managed HOA to ensure proper reserves, an appropriate refresh/upgrade schedule, etc.



Also consider that as long as the developer is growing and actively selling _anywhere_, it is in their best interest to ensure that facilities and service levels are as top-notch as feasible in each resort that bears the developer's name.


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## ronparise (Sep 12, 2015)

TUGBrian said:


> as far as the resort itself is concerned, its all about MF's....one needs to remember that easily 50-60% of the retail price is all tied up in marketing.
> 
> now one could argue that this staggering amount of money goes a long way into furthering the product of timesharing itself (as after all, its no doubt what entices most new owners to buy a timeshare in the first place).
> 
> ...



This is a what comes first, the chicken or the egg question

I know that there are independent stand alone resorts where the developer developed and sold the resort and then left but as you know timesharing has evolved. Now with the big systems the developer never leaves.  

I think you are dead wrong re maintenance fees being the biggest part of the bottom line. Once the bills are paid there is only a management fee left for the manager. Certainly not enough to grow the system the way Wyndham has grown. What provides the growth and profits (the bottom line) is sales. That and the interest on the loans folks take to pay those inflated prices

So to answer your question


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## Ty1on (Sep 12, 2015)

ronparise said:


> This is a what comes first, the chicken or the egg question
> 
> I know that there are independent stand alone resorts where the developer developed and sold the resort and then left but as you know timesharing has evolved. Now with the big systems the developer never leaves.
> 
> ...



Certainly in Wyndham's case, their own rental operations provide a nice chunk of change for the company, too.  AND oftentimes allows them to keep control of the HOAs.


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## Xcalibur (Sep 13, 2015)

Bigrob said:


> I often agree with you, but on this point we will have to disagree. Sales is the engine the fuels growth within the Wyndham system. Maintenance fees keep the lights on at the existing resorts, and of course are vitally important; but the maintenance fees being paid does not help get new resorts in new locations on the map, which helps to make all of our ownerships more valuable by giving us more options.
> 
> I would change the statement to; "it is new developer sales that keeps a system GROWING"... and it is that growth that is important to keep the system vibrant and attractive in the future. As much as we enjoyed visiting Fairfield Glade in the past... if Wyndham Smoky Mountains and Great Smokies Lodge had not been added, we would have lost interest in visiting TN long ago. Having new options to visit New York, Chicago, Beaver Creek, Park City, etc. etc. is definitely dependent on developer sales.



While it is nice to have the new locations,  I find the points cost  of them to be ridiculous.  True,  the  points per mf are good,  but that means only the older,  cheaper point locations are worthwhile.  With the point value of the newer locations,  I don't really see myself using points to book them.


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## alexadeparis (Sep 13, 2015)

raygo123 said:


> I have enjoyed it for years. Wife will be retiring in a couple years so this was the time to do it.  In 2013, we bought 190,000 points, and along with our two Vida weeks became VIP silver.  Two things happened at that presentation, first, VIP, second which was verified, we were given permanent status, treated us as first time buyers.  Also simplified process.  I also have no desire to go further as we have bought additional points to VIP gold.  We were at $160/1000 and we ended up with another 25% discount.  I felt now was the time to pull the trigger.  Then in may of this year Wyndham offered us the same price, and we bought more.  In the long run we felt this to be the right decision for us, and the children if they so desire.  I  also feel that over time Wyndham is going to make it harder for resale to do business. With them. We always paid cash.
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk



Thank you. Sounds like you did PIC and requalified your resale. As long as you are happy and can pass it on to the kids, I say, great.


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## raygo123 (Sep 13, 2015)

No I actually tuned in the resale, goal was to get to our mf goal.  Ovation.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk


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## MichaelColey (Sep 13, 2015)

"I fulfilled my part.  I'm here.  You need to give me the promised compensation, and I would be glad to either stay for the update, or leave.  It's your choice."


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## OutSkiing (Sep 13, 2015)

vacationhopeful said:


> Sales will still be your buddies. If they ask, just say your sister gave you the unit. Be sure you have the sellers' names & address from the deed and then ask, why hasn't it been included as part of the VIP status to make me Platinum?
> 
> PS They will update the notes in your profile ... regarding that ownership.


Lol - I like your thinking, Linda.

But my sisters name would be Timeshare recyclers!

They owned it from April through August when the deal closed.

Bob


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## OutSkiing (Sep 14, 2015)

Bigrob said:


> I too am frustrated by sales tactics. It gives the resorts, the timeshare experience, and the timesharing industry in general a bad name. However, having said that, I'm not sure cutting the price in half would address this; when I review the complaints at BBB, the price itself is not generally the biggest point of contention. It is unfulfilled promises and statements that are just not true. Those promises take various forms; whether it is the promise of an exit strategy, ability to rent for profit, or availability that doesn't generally exist.
> 
> Sometimes I wonder why this is, especially when they talk to an owner like me. For example; at my recent owner update, I was told that of course I didn't have ARP on my resale points, only on my developer-purchased points.  Wouldn't they think that if I'm in that category of having more than 100 Guest Confirmations I might just know that isn't true? Why tell such an obvious lie?
> 
> ...


I suspect the salespeople don't actually know much about resale other than 'resale=bad' (from their perspective).  So they make up facts about what they imagine 'bad' to be.  I suspect the turnover is pretty high in those sales offices so actual knowledge runs thin.

I am curious (nosey) as to what specific deal you had in mind.


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## Bigrob (Sep 14, 2015)

I was interested in an equity trade for Presidential Reserve, but they were requiring a huge additional purchase to make it happen.


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## SandyPGravel (Sep 23, 2015)

vacationhopeful said:


> Sales will still be your buddies. If they ask, just say your sister gave you the unit. Be sure you have the sellers' names & address from the deed and then ask, why hasn't it been included as part of the VIP status to make me Platinum?
> 
> PS They will update the notes in your profile ... regarding that ownership.



Does this really work?  With my luck they will call the former owners!  No big deal if they did I guess, just wouldn't get the Starwood Starpoints then I guess.  Worth a try though!  :hysterical:


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## MermaidSouth (Sep 27, 2015)

Tactics? We were just told that if we didn't vacation, we would die of heart attacks and leave our kids without a deeded property in our will. Grr!


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## spackler (Sep 27, 2015)

MermaidSouth said:


> Tactics? We were just told that if we didn't vacation, we would die of heart attacks and leave our kids without a deeded property in our will. Grr!



We were actually told that buying a resale deed was a huge risk, like "buying a kidney on the black market".  They heard of "someone" who got transferred a "surprise $50,000 debt along with the deed".


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## medsed (Sep 27, 2015)

I had a refreshing presentation...only 45 minutes.  You were not required to go off with an individual salesperson.  I wanted some copies in writing of changes that wyndham had made, or that the presentation claimed they made....got them.  Chatted with salesgirl a bit.  Ended up swapping my old contract which I foolishly bought through wyndham even though I knew better, for a larger point contract, lower MF and lower monthly payment/interest rate....of course we made sure to get equity...which they considered quite large for the other contract, a good discount, and etc and I actually came out better for it.  Then she said the best thing...never go to a presentation again...you will never ever get a deal like this again...and just go buy resale to get yourself more points if you need them.  (And we were very close to Gold before this larger contract put us over the top for those benefits as opposed to silver and we will end up spending less overall with this new deal.  We will have it paid off by the end of the year as we always have made larger than required payments on this )
She gave me her cell phone number...said if you ever get the urge to go to a presentation or if you want updates or info on new programs just give me a call.  She took my number as well..she recommended a great spot for us to check out.  We arranged a day trip there.  She texted the day after and asked how we liked it. And we had a short conversation.   NEVER ever in all of the years I have been time sharing...about 25 .....have I run into a salesperson like this one.  I bet she doesn't last too long!


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## raygo123 (Sep 27, 2015)

Oh she will last, she made the sale!  It almost sounds like a fairytale.  Like the time I was sitting on the golden gate bridge dangling my feet in the water.   I too when I buy pay cash. But I also know that the more points the more the mf.  Could you post her phone number, I know all on this site would love more points and less mf.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk


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## weems637 (Sep 27, 2015)

I too got a "hellava deal and a phone number"  down in Destin.  Now one of our bestest beach friends.  Best thing, she knows all the best local dives and specials!


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## raygo123 (Sep 27, 2015)

I have bought Wyndham.  It took me a long time, bought resale first.  That was back in 1988.  Since that time I have never, ever, had the experience your talking about.
Tell me straight out what was the great deal?  $100/1000 points, 120/1000 point?  130/1000 points?  I'll stop there otherwise you did NOT get a good deal.  Don't get me wrong, I bought Wyndham direct am gold and satisfied with my purchases.  In fact I turned back my resale (ovation),  two months ago.  I also know you don't go to the high end, most popular resorts to the best deal.  I have sat through 6 hours, yes 6, and have said no!  Until after I felt I received a fair deal, probably not the best, but fair, for retail.



Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk


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## rickandcindy23 (Sep 27, 2015)

I am personally hoping Wyndham builds another resort like Bonnet Creek in Orlando because it's always sold out.  I hope people buy that place out and Wyndham builds something even bigger and better, so we have more options.  Hopefully, BC won't go by the way of the other Wyndham Orlando resorts, which no one wants--ever!


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## silentg (Sep 27, 2015)

I am staying at Holly Tree in Yarmouth going down to the lobby to watch the Patriots, hopefully there will be others down there. I am wearing my Tug Shirt! go Pats!
Silentg


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## silentg (Sep 27, 2015)

No one else is watching the game...must be because the weather is so beautiful. This resort is so nice and homey! Having a great time!
Silentg


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## Vacationfuntips (Sep 27, 2015)

rickandcindy23 said:


> I am personally hoping Wyndham builds another resort like Bonnet Creek in Orlando because it's always sold out.  I hope people buy that place out and Wyndham builds something even bigger and better, so we have more options.  Hopefully, BC won't go by the way of the other Wyndham Orlando resorts, which no one wants--ever!



Wyndham/WorldMark REUNION is a top notch resort in the Orlando area.

Cynthia T.


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## bnoble (Sep 27, 2015)

> I bet she doesn't last too long!


This story is more evidence that they are better at doing what they do than we are at doing what we do.


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## medsed (Sep 27, 2015)

raygo123 said:


> Oh she will last, she made the sale!  It almost sounds like a fairytale.  Like the time I was sitting on the golden gate bridge dangling my feet in the water.   I too when I buy pay cash. But I also know that the more points the more the mf.  Could you post her phone number, I know all on this site would love more points and less mf.
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk




My MF fees are lower per point than they used to be is what I meant to convey.  Of course they are more In total as I have a good bit more points than I used to....sorry I did not convey that very well.
I certainly will just keep these things to myself in the future....that way no one will misunderstand me (could have nicely asked for clarification...although I am sure at least a few readers might have at least thought I said what I meant to say) and no one will have to read a fairytale again.


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## OutSkiing (Sep 28, 2015)

medsed said:


> My MF fees are lower per point than they used to be is what I meant to convey.  Of course they are more In total as I have a good bit more points than I used to....sorry I did not convey that very well.
> I certainly will just keep these things to myself in the future....that way no one will misunderstand me (could have nicely asked for clarification...although I am sure at least a few readers might have at least thought I said what I meant to say) and no one will have to read a fairytale again.


It's good to share your experiences even at risk of misunderstandings.

I would not call it an amazingly good deal but I once did get an offer which would have reduced my overall maintenance fees.  It was to trade in all my Bonnet Creek and CWA points for National Harbor while of course buying another bunch of points.  I did not want to give up all my CWA nor to pay that much so I adjusted the deal and ended up with more points for the exact same maintenence fees as I had previously. National Harbor is one of the 3 lowest maintenance fee Wyndhams in the country. What really pushed me over the edge was the buyback deal where Wyndham will supposedly pay 20% of original cost.

I still find resale a far better deal and will make any future purchases resale.

Bob


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## medsed (Sep 29, 2015)

OutSkiing said:


> It's good to share your experiences even at risk of misunderstandings.
> 
> I would not call it an amazingly good deal but I once did get an offer which would have reduced my overall maintenance fees.  It was to trade in all my Bonnet Creek and CWA points for National Harbor while of course buying another bunch of points.  I did not want to give up all my CWA nor to pay that much so I adjusted the deal and ended up with more points for the exact same maintenence fees as I had previously. National Harbor is one of the 3 lowest maintenance fee Wyndhams in the country. What really pushed me over the edge was the buyback deal where Wyndham will supposedly pay 20% of original cost.
> 
> ...



That is the absolute truth!!!!!


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## ronparise (Sep 29, 2015)

rickandcindy23 said:


> I am personally hoping Wyndham builds another resort like Bonnet Creek in Orlando because it's always sold out.  I hope people buy that place out and Wyndham builds something even bigger and better, so we have more options.  Hopefully, BC won't go by the way of the other Wyndham Orlando resorts, which no one wants--ever!



I like Star Island as much as Bonnet Creek, and I like Reunion better, Both are closer to Publix and Publix sells wine


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## ronparise (Sep 29, 2015)

OutSkiing said:


> It's good to share your experiences even at risk of misunderstandings.
> 
> I would not call it an amazingly good deal but I once did get an offer which would have reduced my overall maintenance fees.  It was to trade in all my Bonnet Creek and CWA points for National Harbor while of course buying another bunch of points.  I did not want to give up all my CWA nor to pay that much so I adjusted the deal and ended up with more points for the exact same maintenence fees as I had previously. National Harbor is one of the 3 lowest maintenance fee Wyndhams in the country. What really pushed me over the edge was the buyback deal where Wyndham will supposedly pay 20% of original cost.
> 
> ...



No question National Harbor is a great ownership but I bet it takes you 20 years to break even.  20000/annual maintenance fee savings = ?? years


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## medsed (Sep 29, 2015)

ronparise said:


> I like Star Island as much as Bonnet Creek, and I like Reunion better, Both are closer to Publix and Publix sells wine



I stayed at Cypress Palms....I had an updated unit.  Very nice. Generally, we prefer quieter resorts, rarely join in resort activities and mostly use the pool if anything while we are there.   Close to wine, IMO, is very important!!

we refused to go to the owner's presentation while there, the girl was so shocked when I told her I had no real interest in visiting Bonnet Creek.  She just couldn't believe that the crown jewel of Orlando resorts (her words, not mine) was not at all interesting to us.  When we visit Orlando area it is to spend time with my husband's dad who lives in Poinciana...we are not really looking to visit the parks or be amused at the resort.  our kids are grown and no longer travel with us, perhaps back when they did a resort like Bonnet Creek would have been more appealing.

My hope is that wyndham sees potential in other areas and adds resorts..Cape Cod, Montreal, west coast Florida all come to mind...I believe there was a thread about this in the past.


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## OutSkiing (Sep 30, 2015)

ronparise said:


> No question National Harbor is a great ownership but I bet it takes you 20 years to break even.  20000/annual maintenance fee savings = ?? years


i agree it was not financially rational.  I viewed it as a way to 'tidy up' my purchases direct from Wyndham by going with the low maintenance fee and also the 20% buyback program which they are offering these days.  

I view it as my last ever direct purchase. 

Funny even now the allure of 'platinum' seems appealing even though an upgrade would likely not be rational. Procuring a week of a 2 bedroom unit resale and using PIC (or maybe a Wyndham property fixed week purchased resale) and then spending another $20,000 to turn that into platinum is probably not even worth the investment.

Bob


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## OutSkiing (Sep 30, 2015)

ronparise said:


> I like Star Island as much as Bonnet Creek, and I like Reunion better, Both are closer to Publix and Publix sells wine


We find a 5 liter box of wine fits nicely on any Wyndham kitchen counter!  And I've made too many purchases direct from Wyndham to be able to afford good wine.


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## raygo123 (Sep 30, 2015)

OutSkiing said:


> We find a 5 liter box of wine fits nicely on any Wyndham kitchen counter!  And I've made too many purchases direct from Wyndham to be able to afford good wine.


I know what your going through.  Only problem, then thier is reserve,  Wyndham will never let it stop.  That 10 month to 30 day, think that's why I'm on tug, reality check.  My wife feels same way as far as the placement of the box of wine, and a fridge too-boot!

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk


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## alexadeparis (Oct 1, 2015)

OutSkiing said:


> We find a 5 liter box of wine fits nicely on any Wyndham kitchen counter!  And I've made too many purchases direct from Wyndham to be able to afford good wine.



LOL! :hysterical: :rofl:


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## dgalati (Oct 1, 2015)

*Wyndham National Harbor ownership*

Can anyone let me know what their opinion is of owning a 105,000 annual contract at this resort. Can purchase it for $800 closing included


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## weems637 (Oct 2, 2015)

*wine?*



alexadeparis said:


> LOL! :hysterical: :rofl:



Who needs wine when one can take frozen margaritas to the pool with you.  All you need is a plastic cup and a straw and a little bit of suction power!


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## vacationhopeful (Oct 2, 2015)

weems637 said:


> Who needs wine when one can take frozen margaritas to the pool with you.  All you need is a plastic cup and a straw and a little bit of suction power!



Was using my suction power to absorb multiple frozen margaritas at the Santa Barbara pool one winter ... another gal (NFF - new found friend) and I were totally relaxing, chatting and floating as her husband was making the frozen beverages in the unit upstairs. After 3 or 4, I decided to dry off and went upstairs & showered. Come out onto the balcony and there sat the Fire Truck and EMT vehicles. WHAT? Then out rolled the gurney with the husband walking with it! Front desk staff told me 90 seconds later, my NFF just hit the floor walking into the building by the elevators. NFF broke her wrist (plus some hand bones) and would need surgery back home...1 night in local hospital. Was back at the pool 2 days later ... her pain meds were a bit better HIGH but her cast was NOT allowed back in pool.

So to all TUGGERS .... be careful with the frozen beverages and the pool.


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## Ty1on (Oct 2, 2015)

dgalati said:


> Can anyone let me know what their opinion is of owning a 105,000 annual contract at this resort. Can purchase it for $800 closing included



It's a good deal.  MF $4.30 per K if it is a standard contract.  It isn't enough for a full week at NH, so ARP does nothing for you until you find another great NH deal like this, but that's a pretty nice MF ratio.


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## leeomo (Oct 2, 2015)

*What are VIDA weeks*

Ray go,
You mentioned you Achieved VIP status by purchasing points and Two VIDA weeks. We are in the process of purchasing our first Wyndham points. Thank God we found TUG before we spent a bucket of money retail. We would like to know how you managed to achieve VIP by combining points with ?????


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## Ty1on (Oct 2, 2015)

leeomo said:


> Ray go,
> You mentioned you Achieved VIP status by purchasing points and Two VIDA weeks. We are in the process of purchasing our first Wyndham points. Thank God we found TUG before we spent a bucket of money retail. We would like to know how you managed to achieve VIP by combining points with ?????



First, you will have to buy _some_ retail points to achieve VIP status, even if not the full 400K, 700K or 1M points.  Wyndham has a PIC ("Personal Interval Choice") program that allows you to get points for non-Wyndham intervals you own.  the points assigned are based on number of bedrooms.  

There are two flavors of PIC.  *PIC Express *only applies the points toward your VIP qualification, but does not actually convert them to Wyndham Points (allowing you to use your other intervals as you always have, but giving you credit toward VIP status as if they were Wyndham Points), and the standard *PIC* actually gives Wyndham use of your non-Wyndham intervals in exchange for annually awarded Club Wyndham points.  In both cases, you still pay maintenance fees to your original HOAs for the PIC'd intervals..

The stated Wyndham policy is that PIC points may be converted for you and keep you VIP indefinitely if PIC is exercised in concert with a new *retail* Club Wyndham purchase, or you may add them to your existing *retail* purchased account and attain VIP for 5 years.  Others here have indicated that PIC is only good for 5 years no matter how they are applied.  I'm not sure which is most accurate.

I believe a limit of two intervals can be applied to the PIC program.


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## raygo123 (Oct 2, 2015)

Wyndham has a PIC program.  I own 2 1 bedroom weeks there.  Under PIC, I received a210,000 point credit towards VIP silver, and bonus and bought from Wyndham the balance,190,000 points.  I had a resale contract with Wyndham at the time but resale is not recognized by Wyndham.  I was treated as a new owner, and became  silver.  Temp gold with bonus points.  Since, I bought more to VIP gold.  I have had my Wyndham resale sine 1988 so I became familiar first with Wyndham before buying direct.  Both my wife and I decided on that direction, a personal choice.  If you're not familiar with Wyndham, I would suggest renting first.  It is a lifestyle choice, needless to say the expense.  Above all, don't buy anything unless you can afford to.  We paid cash, and turned in our resale (ovation) to manage MF.  Hope this helps.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk


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## raygo123 (Oct 3, 2015)

leeomo said:


> Ray go,
> You mentioned you Achieved VIP status by purchasing points and Two VIDA weeks. We are in the process of purchasing our first Wyndham points. Thank God we found TUG before we spent a bucket of money retail. We would like to know how you managed to achieve VIP by combining points with ?????


Added info:  in order to become lifetime VIP, with PIC, the non Wyndham TS, must be either deeded,(non point  based), or a floating week.  Cannot trade trough RCI as points.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk


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## ronparise (Oct 9, 2015)

leeomo said:


> Ray go,
> You mentioned you Achieved VIP status by purchasing points and Two VIDA weeks. We are in the process of purchasing our first Wyndham points. Thank God we found TUG before we spent a bucket of money retail. We would like to know how you managed to achieve VIP by combining points with ?????



The important thing not to lose sight of, is that a PIC deal takes a retail purchase, at least 50000 points per week PICed has to be purchased from Wyndham

so do 2  three bedroom weeks at 254000 points each plus 105000 points from Wyndham ($15000-$20000) and you will be silver VIP or buy 193000 points ($30000 +) and be gold vip, 

The question is always ,, Does this make financial sense... do the math and I think you would have to say ..NO,, I cant imagine how raygo123 makes sense of it.  But who am I to criticize,  Im the guy that just bought a "hole in the water" that I will continue to throw money into for the rest of my life.


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## raygo123 (Oct 9, 2015)

I know it makes no sense.  It's our boat, RV, vacation home. I have a sail boat I haven't used in YEARS.  But I feel that WE made the right choice.  All mentioned we really don't want.  As far as lifetime PIC,  I called, wrote, and when they finally, Wyndham is very slow, they did verify I was perminiate gold.  My two PICs were bought retail, were weeks that float, and was told that as you own the other two, you will be gold.  The two Mexican resorts cost me $13,000.  205000, today  average + - $30,000.  The Mexican TSs have no MF. Renewal every ten. Half MF so $725 for both.  

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