# Manhattan Club "Hospitality fee"



## Neil Bock (Mar 18, 2006)

I just received notice from RCI that I will be charged a mandatory hospitality fee of $25 per day when I check in on April 14th. RCI will allow me to cancel the exchange and submit another request with no additional exchange fee (how gracious). This extra charge is first revealed a month prior to my trip, after I've already arranged and purchased transportation and activities.

This fee is charged only to exchangers, not owners at Manhattan Club. My reasoning tells me that the owner who deposited the week which I will be using has paid the maintenance fees, just as I have paid at my resort and that this should give me all the privileges of an owner without paying additional fees.

I called the Manhattan Club and asked why I was being charged this fee. I was told that I would have to ask RCI. I called RCI and was told I'd have to ask Manhattan Club. Surprise!


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## Karen G (Mar 18, 2006)

This topic has been discussed a lot lately. I did a quick search and came up with these threads:  http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/search.php?searchid=207702

I, too, think this practice of charging exchangers extra fees that are already being covered by the maintenance fees an owner pays is despicable.


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## catwgirl (Mar 19, 2006)

*Ouch!*

I just received the same letter from RCI regarding my August exchange.  $175 additional for the week is quite a hefty fee.  It really doesn't seem that they should be able to add this fee after the exchange has already been made.


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## JillChang (Mar 19, 2006)

catwgirl said:
			
		

> I just received the same letter from RCI regarding my August exchange.  $175 additional for the week is quite a hefty fee.  It really doesn't seem that they should be able to add this fee after the exchange has already been made.



I just don't understand.  I have been reading TUG for a few month now.  Based on the discussion here and the resort database, I was able to pick up great resale timeshare at really good price, thanks to TUG.

What I don't get is that I keep reading all these complaints about RCI, and all these increase/additional fees and unhappy about trading power, or putting cheap rentals on the market,  _*why then do people stay with RCI*?_   I mean there are other options!!!  Based on what I read, I decided not to join RCI and use another exchange company and have been happy with it.

So people, if you are not happy with RCI, then the most powerful form of protest is to take your business elsewhere.  As a business person all my life, believe me, if enough of you take action, RCI will notice.


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## JEFF H (Mar 19, 2006)

The good old days of fair exchanges thru RCI are long gone.
RCI Exchange guests are now much more likely to be treated like second class citzens compared to owners,renters or third party company exchangers .
RCI caters to the resort developers and lets then do basically whatever they want to exchange guests.  After buying your airfare and Within a month or two of check-in you can be notified your confirmation has been cancelled or you will be downgraded to a lower rated resort. 
RCI allows Resorts can add special RCI exchanger only fees whenever they feel like it.  
RCI will blame the resort for these things but the truth remains that RCI 
writes the affiliation contracts that enable these resorts to get away with these practices.
Worst Yet RCI may just look the other way when resorts break the affiliation contracts and abuse RCI exchange Guests.
Vactions are suppose to be the way we relax and unwind from our daily stressful lifes but it seems to me RCI exchanges are just adding more stress to the whole equation.


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## Carolinian (Mar 19, 2006)

The way to let Manhattan Club, and indirectly RCI, know your displeasure at this ripoff is through the resort evaluations you send back to RCI after your visit.  These evaluations are used in qualifying resorts for Gold Crown and Silver Crown status, and if you bump your numbers down in the right categories, you can cost them their coveted award status over such money grubbing of exchangers.

Two categories that are components of award status evaluation are ''check-in / check-out'' and ''hospitality''.  When I encounter an inappropriate fee from a resort, it gets a ''1'' in both of these categories, because the resort is not being very hospitable in charging such a fee, and the fee is a big aggravation at check-in / check-out.  Since MC calls this a ''hospitality fee'', it is particularly appropriate to barbeque them in the evaluation in this category.

I always mention in the written comments section why I am giving them these low ratings, so there will be no doubt in their minds.  I also tend to downgrade my ratings in other categories but not as low as ''1''.

If we all slam them hard on the evalutions maybe they will get the message and change this policy.  One Tugger posted some time ago about a resort in the Caribbean that dropped a fee because it hurt their ratings.  Let's hit these slimeballs where it hurts!


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## geekette (Mar 19, 2006)

JillChang said:
			
		

> I just don't understand.  I have been reading TUG for a few month now.  Based on the discussion here and the resort database, I was able to pick up great resale timeshare at really good price, thanks to TUG.
> 
> What I don't get is that I keep reading all these complaints about RCI, and all these increase/additional fees and unhappy about trading power, or putting cheap rentals on the market,  _*why then do people stay with RCI*?_   I mean there are other options!!!  Based on what I read, I decided not to join RCI and use another exchange company and have been happy with it.
> 
> So people, if you are not happy with RCI, then the most powerful form of protest is to take your business elsewhere.  As a business person all my life, believe me, if enough of you take action, RCI will notice.



Everybody does not have this option because some resorts only allow deposit to RCI.  Happily, I can deposit anywhere, but, tucked away in my resort fee is a membership to RCI.


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## Lee B (Mar 19, 2006)

I'm guessing that the developer is frustrated with the number of exchangers who don't buy an interval during their stay.  This fee will discourage tightwad exchangers and also help cover the developer-subsidized maintenance costs.

As posted, RCI loves developers and tolerates members.


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## RonaldCol (Mar 19, 2006)

You brought up an excellent point when you indicated that if these weeks that RCI exchangers receive from the Manhattan Club are deposits from Manhattan Club owners then the additional fees that the Manhattan Club management tacks on, i.e. the mandatory hospitality fee, is not really for the Manhattan Club to keep. 

Working on the assumption that the mandatory fees to exchangers are based on exchanges from Manhattan Club owners, I would think the management of Manhattan Club must have an agreement in place that permits the management to impose additional fees to exchanges. This is similar to what RCI does to weeks that go into their inventory for exchanges. RCI's rules and regulations basically say those deposited weeks are for them to do whatever they want to do with them: rent them out, let them expire, ad absurdum. If the management at Manhattan Club does not have such an agreement with their owners then they are making a windfall profit that the owners do not know of. The owners of the weeks deposited have already paid for the cleaning of the rooms, and if the management imposes a mandatory hospitality fee for the purpose of cleaning the room, then they are in effect, double dipping, i.e. charging twice for the same actions: once to the owners, and a second time to the exchangers. This, in any business transaction, is improper and illegal.

To make it legal, then these fees are collected by the management on behalf of the owners and the owners are entitled to these fees. 

It's too bad there are so many incompetent people in the timeshare world. Looks like another class action lawsuit in the works,this time from the Manhattan Club owners.




			
				Neil Bock said:
			
		

> I just received notice from RCI that I will be charged a mandatory hospitality fee of $25 per day when I check in on April 14th. RCI will allow me to cancel the exchange and submit another request with no additional exchange fee (how gracious). This extra charge is first revealed a month prior to my trip, after I've already arranged and purchased transportation and activities.
> 
> This fee is charged only to exchangers, not owners at Manhattan Club. My reasoning tells me that the owner who deposited the week which I will be using has paid the maintenance fees, just as I have paid at my resort and that this should give me all the privileges of an owner without paying additional fees.
> 
> I called the Manhattan Club and asked why I was being charged this fee. I was told that I would have to ask RCI. I called RCI and was told I'd have to ask Manhattan Club. Surprise!


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## RonaldCol (Mar 19, 2006)

*Transparency of Actions*

As I've posted before, the internet, and it's ramifications, is, and will be turning the world upside down. The imposition of this mandatory housepkeeping fee would not have been so readily known had this problem not been posed to an internet websit such as TUG. Now that it has, the management and those who hold themselves in power had better be careful. What they had done in the past that was cloaked in a secret veil of slow information distribution, is now no longer possible. Instantly, we know what is being done, and WE have the wherewithal to put our heads together and congregate among ourselves as to why we are being treated so. AND we have the power to effect changes.

One of the important benefits of the onset of the internet is the equalizing of power between the governed and the governers (sic, those who govern and are not governORS). Why do you think Cendant is splitting off into separate parts? To avoid the collapse of the entity when any of their subdivisions run afoul of the law. The actions of the various subdivisions over the past several years border on monopolistic practices. Even if the Justice Department cannot find such practices, a suit to show otherwise will be expensive and tedious. In the process of discovery the defending parties will part with proprietary informatin that can be used for other legal suits.


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## gmarine (Mar 19, 2006)

geekette said:
			
		

> Everybody does not have this option because some resorts only allow deposit to RCI.  Happily, I can deposit anywhere, but, tucked away in my resort fee is a membership to RCI.



No resort can restrict an owner to only be able to deposit with RCI. Owners can deposit with any exchange company that will accept their week. 

If the owner chooses not to deposit with RCI and the resort is not affiliated with II, then they may use any of the independant exchange companies.


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## bogey21 (Mar 19, 2006)

RonaldCol said:
			
		

> To make it legal, then these fees are collected by the management on behalf of the owners and the owners are entitled to these fees.



Do we know that these fees are not being used to reduce owners' MFs?

Don't get me wrong.  I hate the damn things.  Just recently got nailed for $40 at Vacation Village of Bonaventure outside Fort Lauderdale (an RCI Points reservation).  Naturally won't go back.

It wouldn't surprise me in the least to see this practice grow as HOAs battle to keep MFs under control for their owners.

GEORGE


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## timeos2 (Mar 19, 2006)

bogey21 said:
			
		

> Do we know that these fees are not being used to reduce owners' MFs?
> 
> Don't get me wrong.  I hate the damn things.  Just recently got nailed for $40 at Vacation Village of Bonaventure outside Fort Lauderdale (an RCI Points reservation).  Naturally won't go back.
> 
> ...


George - $40 for what?  We have stayed at Weston a number of times and never had a fee.


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## JillChang (Mar 19, 2006)

geekette said:
			
		

> Everybody does not have this option because some resorts only allow deposit to RCI.  Happily, I can deposit anywhere, but, tucked away in my resort fee is a membership to RCI.



From what I understand, that's not completely true.  I think the resorts let you think you can only deposit with RCI when in fact you can deposit with other exchange company.  Perhaps you should ask the exchange company instead of asking the resort whether or not you can deposit your week.  

*And perhaps, free RCI membership that came with your timeshare is the catch where everyone fell for it, and is now paying for it in other ways.* 

I signed up with SFX when my resort indicate affiliation with II only, and their gold membership is FREE.  The only drawback (but desirable) is that SFX only accepts really good properties and only prime/red time.  

All I am saying is that people should be more aware that there are alternatives (a few people mention DAE as well on this forum).  Again, the best form of protest is take you business elsewhere!


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## jancpa (Mar 19, 2006)

I wonder if exchanges to the Manhattan Club through SFX will be charged the extra fee as well.


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## Neil Bock (Mar 19, 2006)

Further information:

The hospitality fee is said to cover: Concierge services, Fitness Center, Valet Parking, Business center with PCs offering high speed internet access, Daily housekeeping, an in-room European Kitchenette, and an in-room workstation with dual phone lines and data port.

I've seen all of these services for free in resorts where I own as well as places where I've exchanged. One has to wonder how many exchangers have a car in NYC to make use of valet parking. I own at Gaslamp Plaza Suites in downtown San Diego, and there is a charge for vaket parking for those who use it, owners and exchangers alike. If you don't have a car, and many do not, there is no charge.


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## bogey21 (Mar 19, 2006)

timeos2 said:
			
		

> George - $40 for what?  We have stayed at Weston a number of times and never had a fee.



A 2 day stay using RCI Points.  I think the rationale is that a series of 2 day stays would require 3 cleanings while one 7 day stay would only require one.  I really can't argue with the logic but it sure becomes an expensive stay what with the cost of the points; the reservation fee; and the cleaning fee.

GEORGE


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## ragtop (Mar 19, 2006)

On a related topic, we were assessed a $25 cleaning fee as RCI Points exchangers at Lawrence Welk Desert Oasis last month.  We politely told them that they would get better comments on the RCI Comment Cards if these fees were disclosed in the Points Resort Directory.  They immediately removed the charge.  Add me to the list of people who think that the hidden fees on exchangers has gotten out of hand!


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## RonaldCol (Mar 20, 2006)

These services were already being offered to Manhattan Club owners who are paying through their maintenance fees. The owners receive concierge services, fitness center, NO valet parking, business center with high speed access, daily housekeeping, kitchenette, workstation, and dual phone lines and data port.

If the Manhattan Club charges exchangers for these then the Manhattan Club will need to make transfer payment directly to the owner whose unit is being used and CANNOT take those charges for management itself. They are acting as agents for the owners. 

Since the Manhattan Club is charging and not making transfer payment for these fees to the owners, the management is both charging the owners whose units they are exchanging and the exchangers. This is charging double for the same services. This is a no-no in anyone's books.





			
				Neil Bock said:
			
		

> Further information:
> 
> The hospitality fee is said to cover: Concierge services, Fitness Center, Valet Parking, Business center with PCs offering high speed internet access, Daily housekeeping, an in-room European Kitchenette, and an in-room workstation with dual phone lines and data port.
> 
> I've seen all of these services for free in resorts where I own as well as places where I've exchanged. One has to wonder how many exchangers have a car in NYC to make use of valet parking. I own at Gaslamp Plaza Suites in downtown San Diego, and there is a charge for vaket parking for those who use it, owners and exchangers alike. If you don't have a car, and many do not, there is no charge.


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## bogey21 (Mar 20, 2006)

RonaldCol said:
			
		

> Since the Manhattan Club is charging and not making transfer payment for these fees to the owners, the management is both charging the owners whose units they are exchanging and the exchangers. This is charging double for the same services. This is a no-no in anyone's books.



Do we know for fact that these fees are NOT being used to help defray the MFs of members?

GEORGE


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## Neil Bock (Mar 20, 2006)

For fact, no; but my guess is that the extra fees are simply going into the operations budget, and they will thus have an effect on the amount of next year's maintenance fees. All expenses of operation must come from one source or another. This is why we often see that a developer will subsidize operations while the initial sales are progressing. This keeps the maintenance fees lower to help in sales. Then when they reach near selling out, the operation is turned over to an owners' association and the fees have to go up because the subsidy is gone.


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## catwgirl (Mar 20, 2006)

*Let's call MC*

Okay, well I am still thinking $175 is a lot of money to be hit with after the reservation has been made.  Even before the reservation is made for that matter.  I am going to call MC and make my feelings known.  Maybe if enough of us call it may have an impact.  Maybe they will eliminate or lower the fee before it takes effect on April 1.  Anyone else up for making a call?


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## timeos2 (Mar 20, 2006)

*We're at the MC now. To make things worse*

the very items they are supposedly providing as "extras" are in bad shape. Within an hour of using one of the public terminals in the business center my daughters ebay account was accessed using her passsword & over $2900 of fees rang up with fake items.  Fortunately eBay saw it & reversed it all before we even knew it happened but they were sure that the terminals were "keylogged" at the MC as the timing was perfect. When mentioned to the MC staff they said they don't operate "those things" - a third party does it for them. So they better find out about antivirus/antispyware and firewalls quick as none seem to have any protection at all.  I told her to only use the MAC as that is at least less likely to have been attacked.  I'm just using my laptop on hard wire (there is only one available sso it is usually in use) or paying at the Starbucks in the lobby.  There is a strong WiFi signal in the units BUT it is for the Park Central guests ONLY - the MC doesn't allow you to sign up even if you are willing to pay the $11.39/day.  That's service? 

Also the MC itself is starting to show it's 7+ years of age. We're on one of the newer floors yet the furnishings are beat, the paint worn and the tv's ancient. The new II penthouse area is not much better. Who decided on the leopard skin rug?  The "library" is a few chairs & a desk - no book or entertainment equipment to be found. It will be real easy to downgrade what used to easily be a 5 to a 2 or 3 not only for the fees but because the resort isn't as nice anymore.  $28/day to park and they damaged the car!  That should be fun to get straightened out. 

We missed the fees as our stay ends before 4/1 but my rating card isn't going to be close to what they got in my 5 past rankngs.


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## TravelSFO (Mar 20, 2006)

Maybe MC blames all the wear and tear on exchange guests (specifically RCI).  If so, the "hospitality fee" should be used to update the units.

Btw, as far as I know, this hospitality fee only applies to RCI exchangers.  Why is that??


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## jkweber (Mar 22, 2006)

*Hospitality fees for Manhattan Club do not defra maintenance fees!*

I own at the Manhattan Club, and I can tell you that our maintenance fees for a studio are well over 900.00.  They go up every year, and the $25.00 per day do not go to the owners or help defray the maintenance fees in ANY way.  I think the resort is getting sort of "beat up" and worn looking.  Last time we were there, the carpets were dirty...no filthy.  And their European kitchen consists of a half size fridge, a bar sink, a half sized dishwasher, and a tiny microwave, plus dishes enough for 4.  No cooking pots and pans or anything like that at all.


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## jme (Mar 25, 2006)

*reason for hospitality fee*

The reason for the "hospitality fee" is very simple: it's just so _ _ _ _ hard for New Yorkers to SMILE. It really takes a huge effort, and from my reading of research in the literature, smiling tends to cause great facial pain due to use of muscles which are seldom used, so a fee seemed like the only recourse. Here in the South, the hospitality is FREE and genuine. Have you EVER heard of anyone relocating up North? Nope. Doesn't happen. It's virtually a ONE-WAY street.  UNLESS one gets transferred due to a job, that is, and even then they try to get out of it. My brother turned down a job "offer" in Jersey, and was never happier after his subsequent change from one Southern city to another.  Not that I'm trying to convince anyone ELSE to head in this direction, but it does seem to be a trend. We tried to keep it a secret for so long, but the truth leaked out. Consider: people here actually speak to you as you pass them on the street, there is no "rat-race", the stress level is wayyyyyy down the scale, and even the air smells fresher. Shoveling snow is something we read about in a book. And we play games on fresh green grass instead of ice. Hailing a cab? What is that?  So....there you go.........no hospitality fees! If I were you, I'd open up a new spa or gym, or maybe develop a workout program for developing those unused facial muscles (what music would you choose?) and make a killing $$$$$$$. THEN, you could buy a Southern home (not a house or a condo) on the coast, on a lake, or in a beautiful wooded area, and visit places where there's no need for a hospitality fee. I must confess.....I said all this with tongue-in-cheek, BUT the muscles I used did NOT cause any pain, as I'm quite used to smiling....all day long in fact....and for free. The daffodils and azaleas are blooming.....so "come on down"......jme


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## Corinne (Mar 25, 2006)

*By jove, I think he's got it!*

Marty,

Thanks for the chuckle, the first of the day.  Perhaps this native New Englander is thawing.

Can't wait for spring to catch up here.  No azaleas, no daffodils, no..._anything_ in bloom.   

Regarding Manhattan Club fee, I have stayed there, enjoyed it, and would go back if it made sense financially, even with the additional fee.   The last few trips to NY that hasn't been the case, though.  Most recently we rented 2 1BR suites at the Best Western Hospitality House on E 49th St for $109 +tax per night.  Though not as high end as the Manhattan Club, the suite was much larger, with a spacious LR and a FULL kitchen.  A generous continental breakfast was included (stocked in your suite's refrigerator for you) and the location was excellent.   With this new fee at MC, it might pay to research alternatives.  

-Corinne


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## e.bram (Mar 25, 2006)

*Smile*

We smile when we get the hospitality fee.


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## jme (Mar 25, 2006)

*sorry...*



			
				e.bram said:
			
		

> We smile when we get the hospitality fee.



So sorry to hear about that....it must be very painful. And does the state tax that portion, so that they can build....say, ....hospitals?  The rehab has to be grueling. I hope things improve. jme


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