# Disney Vacation Club ROFR info...



## richardm (Aug 12, 2008)

Here is a link on another forum that has info on recent right of first refusal decisions...


http://mousepad.mouseplanet.com/showthread.php?t=103263


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## craftemp (Aug 12, 2008)

*Disney*

I just sold 2 Disney contracts.. I received $76 per point
Disney let it go through


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## icydog (Aug 15, 2008)

craftemp said:


> I just sold 2 Disney contracts.. I received $76 per point
> Disney let it go through



Yes but at which resort. I'm guessing OKW, right?


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## BocaBum99 (Aug 15, 2008)

> Animal Kingdom - 160 @ $13,000. Waived today



I like this one.  I remember how Steamboat Bill was so high on his Animal Kingdom visit and how he was talking about the great deals available for around $100 per point.

I like $81.25 per point.  Given the economy and the competition from Bonnet Creek, the comeuppance of DVC could be at hand.  All we need to see is a decline in the cost of renting a Disney hotel and the DVC house of cards falls and falls hard.

There are several OKW in the $60's and a Vero Beach at around $50.

It will only get worse as the RTU date becomes material to owners.


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## BocaBum99 (Aug 15, 2008)

Look at this one:



> OKW 232 @ $13,000.- W



$56/point.


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## craftemp (Aug 15, 2008)

*Disney ROFR*



icydog said:


> Yes but at which resort. I'm guessing OKW, right?



Yes, the two contracts were both at OKW


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## richardm (Aug 18, 2008)

*Sales below normal ROFR numbers....*

Often, when you see a sale that is unusually far below the normal ROFR range, it is a sale where the buyer and seller have a direct relationship and have requested Disney take that into consideration.

People have been waiting for the other shoe to drop and Disney prices to fall for a long time- but they have always remained consistent.. I expect there will be a plateau as we get closer to the end of the leaseholds- but I personally haven't seen it yet!


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## Steamboat Bill (Aug 19, 2008)

BocaBum99 said:


> I like this one.  I remember how Steamboat Bill was so high on his Animal Kingdom visit and how he was talking about the great deals available for around $100 per point.
> 
> I like $81.25 per point.  Given the economy and the competition from Bonnet Creek, the comeuppance of DVC could be at hand.  All we need to see is a decline in the cost of renting a Disney hotel and the DVC house of cards falls and falls hard.
> 
> ...



I don't recall posting $100pp for Animal Kingdom as a "great deal", but I have posted many threads over the years where buying SSR directly from Disney was a very good deal (even a great deal at one point...when I posted a thread for SSR = $76pp direct from Disney around December 2006). I would be "shocked" to see anyone buy AKV for $81.25pp as they were originally priced at around $94pp pre-construction (IIRC).

Bonnett Creek is a non-issue for people considering DVC....close, but not cigar.

I can't ever remember Disney lowering costs to stay at the hotels for any significant time and my mother still tells me how she thought the $25 per night cost to stay in DisneyWorld in 1971 when I was a kids was SOOOO expensive.

I am still "BULLISH" on DVC, even thought the prices do seem high now...my blended rate is around $65 pp and the current rate is around $104pp....but in 5 years the DVC prices will probably be $125pp or more.

If you really want to stay at anything other than OKW and SSR, you really need to own DVC....but if you can rent points for $9-10pp...then it may be better renting than buying as I am now easily renting for $11-12 per point and my renters still save HUGE as compared to rack rates.


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## BocaBum99 (Aug 19, 2008)

Steamboat Bill said:


> Bonnett Creek is a non-issue for people considering DVC....close, but not cigar.



Absolutely not according to an Orlando broker friend of mine.  Bonnet Creek is so successful that Disney is trying to figure out what to do about it.

Regarding rates not going down.  Lots of people said that Real Estate never goes down in value across the country.  Don't those people look foolish now?


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## Steamboat Bill (Aug 19, 2008)

I have been a DVC owner since 2000-2001 and "was" very active on the DISboards and am stiill active on mouseowners.com and I can't recall any post ever from anyone that stated they were thinking about buying DVC, but bought Bonnet Creek instead.

I have visited Bonnet Creek (not overnight) and think it is a decent place, but don't have any idea about that timeshare company. I do understand that it is very popular....but I doubt it is any real 'competition" for DVC.

Sure real estate is taking a hit now and perhaps hotel nightly rentals will follow, but that will be a minor down blip in a long upward trend.

Does anyone remember the stock market correction of 1987, 1991, 1998, or even 2001? We dipped and then came back to new highs. The stock market is now down about 20% from the October 2007 highs. Will it keep going down? who knows, but it will bottom and come back even higher in the future...same with real estate.

I think DVC is a great timeshare product and people will continue to buy there, but if I was a non-owner, I would strongly consider renting points from a member as the price savings of buying vs renting is not that great anymore.


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## BocaBum99 (Aug 19, 2008)

Steamboat Bill said:


> I have been a DVC owner since 2000-2001 and "was" very active on the DISboards and am stiill active on mouseowners.com and I can't recall any post ever from anyone that stated they were thinking about buying DVC, but bought Bonnet Creek instead.
> 
> I have visited Bonnet Creek (not overnight) and think it is a decent place, but don't have any idea about that timeshare company. I do understand that it is very popular....but I doubt it is any real 'competition" for DVC.
> 
> ...



Yeah, but NONE of those stocks said that you had to give up your ownership in the stock on 2042 and give it back for free.

I'll bet you $1M that in 2039 that most of the current RTUs that expire in 2042 will be worthless and yet the stock market will be more than 100,000.


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## BocaBum99 (Aug 19, 2008)

Steamboat Bill said:


> I have been a DVC owner since 2000-2001 and "was" very active on the DISboards and am stiill active on mouseowners.com and I can't recall any post ever from anyone that stated they were thinking about buying DVC, but bought Bonnet Creek instead.



Yeah, if you went to the Republican National Convention and took a poll on who they were voting for President,  you would probably conclude that John McCain would win with the greatest margin of victory since Saddam Hussein's last victory with 100% of the vote.


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## richardm (Aug 20, 2008)

I have to agree in part with both Jim and Bill as oddly as that may sound based on the correspondence here.. (I am really surprised to hear Bill proudly admitting to so many commercial rentals- Disney must love to read that!)...

Jim is correct in that for the first time, Disney has to address real competition for it's stranglehold on the Orlando marketshare since Wyndham developed Bonnet Creek on Disney property! I believe the main impact has been on the developers fighting for new tours.. Wyndham currently has a more aggressive OPC program, and seems to be capturing many prospects before they ever get into the theme parks! Have no fear- Disney will adjust. That businessmouse is one sharp fellow!

This Wyndham property will be huge- and will be a flagship selling site for that program and a huge profit center... However- since Wyndham has not shown the ability or the commitment to protect the resale value of it's product via either ROFR or reacquisitions- I truly doubt it will be able to really launch a serious threat in the long run... If you look at the two programs, I'd have to trust that DVC will maintain it's real value far better! You can even look at the recent drop in the WorldMark values since Wyndham acquired it as an indication that Wyndham is great at selling- but very poor at protecting the real dollar value of the interests.. This is the real "magic" behind Disney's timeshare program- it is the only program I know of that has consistently increased in value.. Many of our sellers actually have to consider capital gains taxes! So- Bill is also right!

We've already seen the extension offers on OKW and the continued expansion of Disney, both in Orlando and westward. With California and Hawaii- Disney will be able to tap into the emerging Asian market- plus have the option of expanding their Cruise Line options.. I see Disney as a very strong player for the future... 

As to Jim's take on the leasehold expiration playing havoc with value- while true, that may be a little misleading. The age of a property always has a huge impact on value.. Realistically, how many 50 yr old timeshares will maintain any type of real value? The DVC leasehold expiration will at least give owners an exit clause- and I'm willing to bet those that want to extend will have the opportunity.

Bottom line, no matter what timeshare property or program you buy- the ultimate value should only be judged by the use and the enjoyment the owner gets from it..


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## BocaBum99 (Aug 20, 2008)

I think that Wyndham is making a huge mistake in not implementing an ROFR program.  Eventually, the 90-95% drop in resale value will impact them.   If they can re-acquire inventory at less than their cost to build, then they can sell Bonnet Creek over and over and over again while maintaining a better resale value in their product.  It seems like it would be in their best interest to do it.

Disney is really strong in their theme parks primarily because they can sustain a very high rental rate for their resorts.  As long as they can maintain that situation, then DVC will remain high in resale value.   As soon as that is impacted, then the house of mouse collapses.


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## Steamboat Bill (Aug 20, 2008)

BocaBum99 said:


> Yeah, but NONE of those stocks said that you had to give up your ownership in the stock on 2042 and give it back for free.
> 
> I'll bet you $1M that in 2039 that most of the current RTUs that expire in 2042 will be worthless and yet the stock market will be more than 100,000.



I don't own a 2042 RTU (OKW, BCV, BWV, HHI, VB) as I own a 2054 RTU (SSR) and I doubt I will even be alive in 2042 and no way am I making it to 2054. Thus, it is sorta irrelevant....it is the current value and cash flow that is more important to me. Besides, how many people keep any timeshare or any other asset for 40-50 years???

Here is my thread that I had to dig up from December 15, 2006 about buying DVC
http://tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=37125&highlight=Disney+vacation+club

Here is the current summary for this one DVC purchase:

SSR points price = $101 - $15 discount = $86 net
Then I immediately rented the 2006 points = $76.73 net
Then I rented the 2007 points for a $7pp profit = $69.73 net
Then I rented the 2008 points for a $7pp profit = $62.73 net

I can do this until 2054 and easily clear $7pp (or I will drop to $6pp if I need to dump points fast or even get $8pp if I want to work harder). Thus, my $7pp is an average.

At this rate, my cost to buy the original DVC contract will be $0 in 9 years (2017) and I still have 37 years left.

I can then sell the contract for at least $100pp (pure profit at that time) or continue to rent.

If I continue to rent for a $7pp net profit for another 37 years = $259pp in pure profit.

Of course, I have not included the "opportunity costs" of the original $70pp purchase and that would be about $3.50pp and you can figure out if that is a factor for you or not.

---------------------------

Disclaimer - I am not a professional or commercial renter, but DVC does allow rentals of DVC units of about 20 rentals or so per year. I usually only rent about 4-5 DVC vacations per year and many are repeat friends (customers). Also, there are years that I never rent my points like when I want to stay in a Grand Villa, etc. Additionally, I am not advocating buying DVC to make a profit or run a DVC rental business...I am only informing people that DVC can be a great value (especially if you like to visit Disney) and there are methods to make the price lower and even free.


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## icydog (Aug 22, 2008)

Steamboat Bill said:


> I don't own a 2042 RTU (OKW, BCV, BWV, HHI, VB) as I own a 2054 RTU (SSR) and I doubt I will even be alive in 2042 and no way am I making it to 2054. Thus, it is sorta irrelevant....it is the current value and cash flow that is more important to me. Besides, how many people keep any timeshare or any other asset for 40-50 years???
> 
> Here is my thread that I had to dig up from December 15, 2006 about buying DVC
> http://tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=37125&highlight=Disney+vacation+club
> ...




We stayed in a two bdrm Bonnet Creek two years ago on a rental. the location is very good but the amenities are surely lacking. The buses to the park run intermittently and not at great times. This necessitates having a car and paying for parking. Also there's no restaurant on site, or at least there wasn't one then. The villas themselves are larger than DVC units even OKW. They are really nice inside. The outside looks like apartment buildings and have no character at all. The lazy river is too small for the number of people wishing to use it and there is little if any shade. The resort is very nice but doesn't hold a candle to anything Disney has by way of resort amenities. Don't forget as a DVC member you get to use the facilities of all the other Disney resorts including their spas, pools and restaurants. 


I sold my Boardwalk Villas for a $10 a point profit two years ago. I used that money to buy a resale Vero and then towards a new AKV contract from Disney. I rent out any points I cannot use. I use the rental money to pay the maintenance fees on DVC and some of my other maintenance fees as well. I travel to WDW whenever I want and I love it there. Life is good.


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