# [2011] Do you proof your TUG posts before you submit?



## ace2000 (Jul 6, 2011)

I've got a question for everyone that is a big concern for me...  how do you proof your posts before you submit?  Do you preview or read through them first?  Do you proof at all?  

For me, I teach a couple of college night classes (Computer classes, not English classes  ), and I am always extra careful about any emails that I send to the class.  However, any other emails (or forum posts such as this), it seems like I'm always in too much of a hurry to just get it done.  I think most of my problems occur when I edit the message after typing.

Any tricks out there?


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## ace2000 (Jul 6, 2011)

One more thought... I was kind of thinking that it might be a factor of getting older.  Which means that I need to be extra cautious now.  I started wearing bifocals three years ago, and thought that may be part of the cause.  I don't remember having these types of problems when I was younger.  Of course, perhaps I just didn't notice.


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## AwayWeGo (Jul 6, 2011)

*Revise & Rewrite.*




ace2000 said:


> Any tricks out there?


Click here for Strunk & White.

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


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## ace2000 (Jul 6, 2011)

AwayWeGo said:


> Click here for Strunk & White.
> 
> 
> -- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


 
Can't read that site in detail this morning... but from what I've skimmed, it looks great!  Thanks Alan.


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## AwayWeGo (Jul 6, 2011)

*Wilson Follett.*




ace2000 said:


> Can't read that site in detail this morning... but from what I've skimmed, it looks great!


It _is_ great. 

And when you've digested that & find yourself hungry for more, try Modern American Usage by Wilson Follett. 

I specially like the older edition edited by Jacques Barzun.  But the newer versions are OK too. 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


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## ace2000 (Jul 6, 2011)

AwayWeGo said:


> It _is_ great.
> 
> I specially like the older edition edited by Jacques Barzun.  .


 
Did you mean _especially_?


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## AwayWeGo (Jul 6, 2011)

*Good Catch.*




ace2000 said:


> Did you mean _especially_?


I quit typing _especially_ a long time ago -- switched to _specially_ instead. 

Not only that, the more I think about it, the better I like _specially_ in place of _especially_.  Sounds less formal & more conversational. 

I doubtless have habits of speech & typing that kick in automatically via some virtually thought-free process. 

Mostly, however, stuff that I type is fully premeditated (including the way that I type it). 

That specially goes for stuff on TUG-BBS. 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


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## Passepartout (Jul 6, 2011)

Readers who are paying attention will notice that many of my posts have been edited. More often than not I find a typo or that I forgot to include something after I hit the 'send' button and have to edit it after it's posted. Thank goodness for the 'edit' button.

Jim


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## ace2000 (Jul 6, 2011)

AwayWeGo said:


> I quit typing _especially_ a long time ago -- switched to _specially_ instead.
> 
> Not only that, the more I think about it, the better I like _specially_ in place of _especially_.  Sounds less formal & more conversational.
> 
> ...


Alan, 

First, this is probably a good time to mention that you are probably my favorite TUG poster to read...  so, take any of my comments in that light.  

Thanks for everything you add to the great TUG experience!


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## ace2000 (Jul 6, 2011)

Passepartout said:


> Thank goodness for the 'edit' button.
> 
> Jim


 
I wish that edit option (without the correction message) was available a little longer after 'submitting'...  I notice most of my mistakes then.  I'm thinking that five or ten minutes would be ideal.  However, I still catch some much later.  Does anyone know how long you can edit without the correction notice appearing below your message?


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## AwayWeGo (Jul 6, 2011)

*Thank You.*




ace2000 said:


> First, this is probably a good time to mention that you are probably my favorite TUG poster to read.


Nice of you to say -- much appreciated. 

I truly enjoy participating in the TUG-BBS give & take -- not just in timeshare-related matters, but just about all of it. 

I an specially grateful for the forbearance of the TUG Grand Pro for letting me get away with sending in so much outlandish stuff that's far afield from anything to do with timeshares & timesharing.  

Much of what I send in is more in the nature of a personal blog than anything else.  Any time people say they enjoy reading it, that salves my conscience somewhat. 

Thanks again for your kind words. 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


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## BevL (Jul 6, 2011)

Mine show up as edited too.  I do read them but sometimes on reading it again, it's just not as clear as I think it should be so I'll scoot in and shuffle stuff around to make more coherent - or at least I hope that's accomplished.

My kids tease me when I text as I don't use the popular abbreviated style for texting and I use punctuation.  And I capitalize.  Old habits die hard.


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## ronparise (Jul 6, 2011)

Passepartout said:


> Readers who are paying attention will notice that many of my posts have been edited. More often than not I find a typo or that I forgot to include something after I hit the 'send' button and have to edit it after it's posted. Thank goodness for the 'edit' button.
> 
> Jim



Thats what I do...hit the submit button and then edit to correct the mistakes (most of them)


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## Fern Modena (Jul 6, 2011)

Alan and Ace,
I switched from probably to prolly more than ten years ago.  I also often use kewl instead of cool.  

Nowadays my typing is often off kilter because my baby finger and index finger on my left hand often go rogue on me.  The pinkie hits CAPS LOCK or a letter I don't want, so I tend to look at the screen (not the keyboard) as I type, which slows me down quite a bit.  I'm still a touch typist on my other fingers...

Getting old isn't for sissies. 

Fern



AwayWeGo said:


> I quit typing _especially_ a long time ago -- switched to _specially_ instead.
> 
> Not only that, the more I think about it, the better I like _specially_ in place of _especially_.  Sounds less formal & more conversational.
> 
> ...


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## MichaelColey (Jul 6, 2011)

I'll usually scroll back through before I submit a post to make sure things came out the way I meant.  My brain usually works a little faster than my fingers and sometimes I'll end up going in two disjointed directions in a single sentence.

If I've used any words where I'm not positive on the spelling, I'll sometimes click the spell check button (
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




) in the upper right to make sure.  Most of the time, I don't bother.


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## rickandcindy23 (Jul 6, 2011)

I make spelling and grammatical errors often on TUG.  I realize it sometimes and edit; other times, I ignore it; some other times it is too late to edit.  Meaning the option is gone to edit.  

Oh, well!  I am especially bad at the grammatical error of saying, "It's the same for Rick and _me_"  I know it's not correct, but I do it anyway.  It's a goof I would like to fix, but I say it wrong too.  

I also say, "Can I have another refill...."  Instead of "May I have..."  I am really bad, and I know better.  I would rather be oblivious (ignorant?).  

I just saw a post a while back, too late to edit, where I wrote it's instead of its possessive.  I type very fast, and sometimes I type the wrong word, usually a sound alike word, like there for their, or something stupid like that.  I always hope to edit before someone sees.  

So I edit after.  I guess that is my answer.


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## AwayWeGo (Jul 6, 2011)

*What's Incorrect About That ?*




rickandcindy23 said:


> I am especially bad at the grammatical error of saying, "It's the same for Rick and _me_"  I know it's not correct, but I do it anyway.  It's a goof I would like to fix, but I say it wrong too.


It absolutely _is_ correct just the way you typed it. 

What would be _wrong-wrong-wrong_ (i.e., incorrect -- it's not a moral issue) would be saying "It's the same for Rick and _I_".

BTW -- It's not too late for _Strunk & White_.  (Just saying.)

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


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## Elli (Jul 6, 2011)

MichaelColey said:


> I'll usually scroll back through before I submit a post to make sure things came out the way I meant.  My brain usually works a little faster than my fingers and sometimes I'll end up going in two disjointed directions in a single sentence.
> 
> If I've used any words where I'm not positive on the spelling, I'll sometimes click the spell check button (
> 
> ...


Michael, I use the spell check (ABC) in Hotmail, but I don't see it in the upper right when I am on TUG.


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## Passepartout (Jul 6, 2011)

Elli said:


> Michael, I use the spell check (ABC) in Hotmail, but I don't see it in the upper right when I am on TUG.



I don't have it either. In Firefox spellcheck was either an add-on or automatic. I just get the red squiggly line under my all-too-common mis-spellings. Right click on them and select the correct one.

Jim


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## ace2000 (Jul 6, 2011)

Passepartout said:


> I don't have it either. In Firefox spellcheck was either an add-on or automatic. I just get the red squiggly line under my all-too-common mis-spellings. Right click on them and select the correct one.
> 
> Jim


 
I get that squiggy line in Chrome.  Only problem is that I rarely use Chrome.


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## pjrose (Jul 6, 2011)

Passepartout said:


> Readers who are paying attention will notice that many of my posts have been edited. More often than not I find a typo or that I forgot to include something after I hit the 'send' button and have to edit it after it's posted. Thank goodness for the 'edit' button.
> 
> Jim





ronparise said:


> Thats what I do...hit the submit button and then edit to correct the mistakes (most of them)



Same with me.


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## ace2000 (Jul 6, 2011)

I think I'm less concerned with a TUG post then I am when sending an email at work.  That's the one that gets me the most.  I'm ready to move on to another a task, and just don't take the time to proof.  Was kind of hoping somebody had a method or a trick to accomplish that consistently...


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## AwayWeGo (Jul 6, 2011)

*Discipline Means Doing What You Don't Want To Do When You Don't Want To Do It.*




ace2000 said:


> I'm ready to move on to another a task, and just don't take the time to proof.


There's the weenie right there -- not taking the time.  

Plus, it's not just proofreading.  It's self-editing -- the job of making sure you're typing what you mean, which takes rereading & revising & rewriting.

The idea is writing not just so that it's possible for people to understand what you're trying to get across, but writing instead so that it's impossible to misunderstand what you're trying to say.

That's easier said than done, & no doubt it's a standard rarely lived up to. 

Even so, that should remain the goal, whether writing serious stuff like legal briefs & contracts or typing something semi-frivolous for TUG-BBS. 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


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## rickandcindy23 (Jul 6, 2011)

AwayWeGo said:


> It absolutely _is_ correct just the way you typed it.
> 
> What would be _wrong-wrong-wrong_ (i.e., incorrect -- it's not a moral issue) would be saying "It's the same for Rick and _I_".




Strike that and reverse it.  Okay, I said that wrong, as I often do, with my fast, fast typing, not to mention my ability to type before engaging my brain.  :rofl:


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## ace2000 (Jul 6, 2011)

AwayWeGo said:


> There's the weenie right there -- not taking the time.
> 
> Plus, it's not just proofreading.  It's self-editing -- the job of making sure you're typing what you mean, which takes rereading & revising & rewriting.
> 
> ...


Alan,

I think you're right about the time it takes... I tend to think that I'm so good, that I shouldn't have to proof.   

Guess nobody's buying into my original theory that I'm just getting old and blind at the same time...  :rofl:


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## ampaholic (Jul 6, 2011)

AwayWeGo said:


> It absolutely _is_ correct just the way you typed it.
> 
> What would be _wrong-wrong-wrong_ (i.e., incorrect -- it's not a moral issue) would be saying "It's the same for Rick and _I_".
> 
> ...



And to prove it we have - "you and me could make a bad romance" - Lady Ga Ga


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## Sandi Bo (Jul 6, 2011)

I try to proof mine, and still see errors after submitting.  Always thankful for the edit button.  Didn't realize there was a spell check available, until now. That will be helpful, thanks!


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## glypnirsgirl (Jul 6, 2011)

For posts that are mainly fun, I don't bother to edit. When in more serious discussion mode, I usually will write in Word first, then copy and paste to post.

elaine


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## RALnGA (Jul 6, 2011)

aWAYwEgO
You are sew write ...Eye can't stand to hav two reed and siphur what sum right...thats y I allways re-red mine ...Knot won to read mines...
knight Yall
RAL  :rofl:


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## MuranoJo (Jul 7, 2011)

That's so true, the 'silent' edit feature is quick to vaporize before your corrected mistake shows up as an edited post.  Once it shows up as an edited post, we can *only imagine *what MIGHT have been there in the first place.


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## Talent312 (Jul 7, 2011)

muranojo said:


> ...Once it shows up as an edited post, we can *only imagine *what MIGHT have been there in the first place.



In my case, what was there "in the first place" was some useless drivel, which would reveal me to be a loony windbag (if you're quick enuff).

After seeing my posts in print, I edit nearly all in a panicked attempt to sound somewhat literate.


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## Makai Guy (Jul 7, 2011)

When I edit it's mostly to correct typos, restate something to make my meaning more clear, or sometimes to add additional information.

You have 2 minutes after posting in which you can edit without the "edited" notice being added.  This is enough for fixing typos, but not much else.

As for the semi-built-in spell checker on this board, it is just a link that can be used to bring up the IESPELL add-on for Internet Explorer.  From one of my posts from 1999:


> The icon looks like this:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## ace2000 (Jul 7, 2011)

Makai Guy said:


> You have 2 minutes after posting in which you can edit without the "edited" notice being added.  This is enough for fixing typos, but not much else.


 
Is it possible to extend that time?  From reading this thread, it appears there's a lot of us that proof after we submit.  

Also, thanks to everyone for mentioning the spell check button.  I never noticed that before.


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## RDB (Jul 7, 2011)

Often I've wanted to amend my post, but too late without the "Edited" showing up. Many of those times, I leave it alone as I see no reason to tell the world something was changed.

If I really was worried about such, I probably wouldn't post at all.
The older I become, the less important trifles become.
Not trying to offend anyone.

It is nice to be able to correct, but I usually won't bother. 

When I do edit and the "reason for edit" comes up, I usually ignore it. WHAT'S THE POINT of taking the time to say "mispelling" or "correction"?

I too use Word to formulate, then copy to TUG.


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## ace2000 (Jul 7, 2011)

RDB said:


> Often I've wanted to amend my post, but too late without the "Edited" showing up. Many of those times, I leave it alone as I see no reason to tell the world something was changed.
> 
> If I really was worried about such, I probably wouldn't post at all.
> The older I become, the less important trifles become.
> ...


 
On you comments on the edit button, those are my thoughts exactly!  

Never tried using Word, may have to try that.  I do have Word integrated into my Outlook at work, but I still have to cringe when I read some of my previous sent emails.


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## RDB (Jul 7, 2011)

ace2000 said:


> On you comments on the edit button, those are my thoughts exactly!
> 
> Never tried using Word, may have to try that.  I do have Word integrated into my Outlook at work, but I still have to cringe when I read some of my previous sent emails.



Cringes don't get it done.  I say, "Let it go".
Main thing... Just Post!


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## ace2000 (Jul 7, 2011)

ace2000 said:


> On you comments on the edit button...


 

Wow, see what I mean... guess I do have a problem with proofing!  And once again, that was part of an edit that I did after I was typing... that is the place where most of my mistakes are made.  I swear, it has to be because I'm getting blind and older at the same time!

LOL


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## AwayWeGo (Jul 7, 2011)

*I Resemble That Remark.  (To A Degree.)*




RDB said:


> Often I've wanted to amend my post, but too late without the "Edited" showing up. Many of those times, I leave it alone as I see no reason to tell the world something was changed.


Making liberal use of the "Preview Post" feature cuts down on the need to make edits on entries that have passed the point of no return. 

But even after entries have gone final & that brief opportunity for evidence-free editing is over, the software provides a little space for explaining or commenting on the reason for editing the entry -- anything from _None Of Your Beeswax_ to a semi-detailed rationale. 

Is this great BBS software or what ? 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


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## ace2000 (Jul 7, 2011)

AwayWeGo said:


> Is this great BBS software or what ?


LOL - and by God, isn't this a great country we live in!


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## AwayWeGo (Jul 7, 2011)

*Amen To That.*




ace2000 said:


> LOL - and by God, isn't this a great country we live in!


For sure. 

It's no wonder I'm walking around all the time with an attitude of gratitude. 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


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## scrapngen (Jul 7, 2011)

AwayWeGo said:


> For sure.
> 
> It's no wonder I'm walking around all the time with an attitude of gratitude.
> 
> -- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​



"attitude of gratitude"  ... 

What a great sentiment. I like that, Alan!! Sometimes we forget just how good we have it! Thanks!


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## ace2000 (Jul 7, 2011)

scrapngen said:


> "attitude of gratitude"  ...
> 
> What a great sentiment. I like that, Alan!! Sometimes we forget just how good we have it! Thanks!


 
+1 on all that you've stated.


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## AwayWeGo (Jul 7, 2011)

*Harbrace & The Elements Of Style.*




AwayWeGo said:


> It's not too late for _Strunk & White_.


Click here for an internet article mostly about _Harbrace_, but mentioning also _The Elements Of Style_ (Strunk & White).   

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


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## Phill12 (Jul 8, 2011)

I couldn't live without the edit option! 

 I do proof read most times but then still go back later and find error in spelling or the way I stated something doesn't fit or just sounds mean when it wasn't mean't to be. Many times people start to post reply and get hurried and just make these errors which for the most part are no big deal. Problem on all these timeshare forums we have some know=it-all people that can't wait to jump on someone for spelling error or what they take as mean postings. Because of this I will go back and try and fix a error just so I don't have to listen to these people. This is down side to timeshare forums with some always thinking there better or smarter than all others! 

 PHIL:deadhorse:


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## AwayWeGo (Jul 8, 2011)

*Submit?  Never!  I Am A Free Man!*




ace2000 said:


> Do you proof your TUG posts before you submit?


Never submit. 

Only send in. 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


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## pwrshift (Jul 8, 2011)

My iPad often 'corrects' what I've typed with words I never intended, and I find I have to cross check everything I write with it.  Some of the changes it makes are hilarious...like the three I had to manually change in this shirt post.


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## Jaybee (Jul 8, 2011)

How can we be blamed for errors in English? I thought this might be a good place for this.....
You think English is easy???  
1) The bandage was wound around the wound.

2) The farm was used to produce produce.

3) The dump was so full that it had to refuse more refuse.

4) We must polish the Polish furniture.

5) He could lead if he would get the lead out.

6) The soldier decided to desert his dessert in the desert.

7) Since there is no time like the present, he thought it was time to present the present

8) A bass was painted on the head of the bass drum.

9) When shot at, the dove dove into the bushes.

10) I did not object to the object.

11) The insurance was invalid for the invalid.

12) There was a row among the oarsmen about how to row ...

13) They were too close to the door to close it.

14) The buck does funny things when the does are present.

15) A seamstress and a sewer fell down into a sewer line.

16) To help with planting, the farmer taught his sow to sow.

17) The wind was too strong to wind the sail.

18) Upon seeing the tear in the painting I shed a tear.

19) I had to subject the subject to a series of tests.

20) How can I intimate this to my most intimate friend?

Let's face it - English is a crazy language. There is no egg in eggplant, nor ham in hamburger; neither apple nor pine in pineapple. English muffins weren't invented in England or French fries in France . Sweetmeats are candies while sweetbreads, which aren't sweet, are meat. We take English for granted. But if we explore its paradoxes, we find that quicksand can work slowly, boxing rings are square and a guinea pig is neither from Guinea nor is it a pig.

And why is it that writers write but fingers don't fing, grocers don't groce and hammers don't ham? If the plural of tooth is teeth, why isn't the plural of booth, beeth? One goose, 2 geese. So one moose, 2 meese? One index, 2 indices? Doesn't it seem crazy that you can make amends but not one amend? If you have a bunch of odds and ends and get rid of all but one of them, what do you call it?

If teachers taught, why didn't preachers praught? If a vegetarian eats vegetables what does a humanitarian eat? Sometimes I think all the English speakers should be committed to an asylum for the verbally insane. In what language do people recite at a play and play at a recital? Ship by truck and send cargo by ship? Have noses that run and feet that smell?

How can a slim chance and a fat chance be the same, while a wise man and a wise guy are opposites? You have to marvel at the unique lunacy of a language in which your house can burn up as it burns down, in which you fill in a form by filling it out and in which, an alarm goes off by going on..

English was invented by people not computers and it reflects the creativity of the human race, which, of course, is not a race at all. That is why when the stars are out they are visible but when the lights are out they are invisible.

PS. - Why doesn't 'Buick' rhyme with 'quick' ?

You lovers of the English language might enjoy this .

There is a two-letter word that perhaps has more meanings than any other two-letter word, and that is 'UP'

It's easy to understand UP , meaning toward the sky or at the top of the list, but when we awaken in the morning, why do we wake UP ? At a meeting, why does a topic come UP ? Why do we speak UP and why are the officers UP for election and why is it UP to the secretary to write UP a report ?

We call UP our friends. And we use it to brighten UP a room, polish UP the silver; we warm UP the leftovers and clean UP the kitchen. We lock UP the house and some guys fix UP the old car. At other times the little word has real special meaning. People stir UP trouble, line UP for tickets, work UP an appetite, and think UP excuses. To be dressed is one thing, but to be dressed UP is special.

And this UP is confusing: A drain must be opened UP because it is stopped UP . We open UP a store in the morning but we close it UP at night.

We seem to be pretty mixed UP about UP ! To be knowledgeable about the proper uses of UP , look the word UP in the dictionary. In a desk-sized dictionary, it takes UP almost 1/4th of the page and can add UP to about thirty definitions. If you are UP to it, you might try building UP a list of the many ways UP is used. It will take UP a lot of your time, but if you don't give UP , you may wind UP with a hundred or more. When it threatens to rain, we say it is clouding UP .. When the sun comes out we say it is clearing UP ...

When it rains, it wets the earth and often messes things UP.

When it doesn't rain for awhile, things dry UP .

One could go on and on, but I'll wrap it UP , for now my time is UP , so........it is time to shut UP !

Oh . . . one more thing:


What is the first thing you do in the morning & the last thing you do at night? U-P


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## pjrose (Jul 8, 2011)

In answer to the original question, no, not usually, but this thread reminded me to do so today!


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## isisdave (Jul 8, 2011)

AwayWeGo said:


> _None Of Your Beeswax_



My favorite:  "Brain failed to engage before fingers"


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## pwrshift (Jul 8, 2011)

Jayvee...your post was hilarious.  Thanks.

Brian


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## Jaybee (Jul 8, 2011)

Thanks, Brian.  I thought it covered a lot of territory, and I just got it, so of course it sounded perfect for this conversation. 
I see in the new Timesharing Today, they're asking people to correct their grammar when they send in their articles. It's time consuming to have to correct all the to/too, they're/their, your.you're, etc.  It's getting worse every day.


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## MuranoJo (Jul 9, 2011)

Jaybee,
It was an appropriate fit to this thread.  

I attended 2-room schoolhouses in the sticks until I was 13, and my older teachers were fussy about good grammar and spelling. It was like we were in the stone-age as we had 'spell-down' and 'cipher-down' contests up on the blackboard, while our counterparts in the cities were on to 'new' math.  So, in college, I was tops in my English and Creative Writing courses.

It amazes me how my MBA+ co-workers cannot construct a sentence and can't spell.  I've gotten to the point that it no longer really phases me, and I think I'm beginning to adapt to the point that I need to really proof all I write, and I still miss things--getting sloppy I guess.


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## AwayWeGo (Jul 9, 2011)

*I Resemble That Remark.*




muranojo said:


> I've gotten to the point that it no longer really phases me, and I think I'm beginning to adapt to the point that I need to really proof all I write, and I still miss things--getting sloppy I guess.


Same here.  

That stuff likewise no longer fazes me -- although the on-air goofs & flubs by the paid professional talkers on radio & TV are still semi-amazing to me.  Likewise, there is no excuse for bad writing & syntax errors, etc., by professional writers & editors in books & newspapers & magazines & non-amateur internet sites.  

It is a fact of editorial life that 1 place where errors are likely to crop up is in memos & articles about the importance of guarding against errors in writing.  

That no longer fazes me either; it's just a fact of life. 

BTW -- my late father (1916-2002) worked for a small-city newspaper that 1 day ran an inside double-page advertisement for a local haberdashery.  Display type back then was all hand-set.  Proofreaders, then & now, apparently check blocks of small-size text more carefully than lines of large display type.  Across the top of the double-page ad, in huge capital letters, the ad was intended to say *. . .* 

*GIGANTIC  SHIRT  SALE*​
*. . .* except that somehow the letter "R" got left out.  

Dad said the top dogs at his paper sent him over to the haberdashery to apologize on behalf of the paper, & to offer to make it right.  The idea was that because my dad was young, & married with a small child, the store people would take pity & perhaps accept his apology on behalf of the newspaper instead of resorting to legal action against the publisher.

Dad said that when he got there to apologize for the horrid mistake, which he swore was merely a careless oversight that was in no way intentional, the store owner was not 1 bit angry.  "We sold every shirt we had in the store by 10:15 this morning," the haberdasher said.  "We were thinking we ought to see if we can get you to print our double-truck ad exactly the same way next year."

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


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## Jaybee (Jul 9, 2011)

ROTFLOL! (If you'll pardon the disrespect for the language). Alan, you are so funny.  

I agree with your distaste for the inexcusable errors made in print, by so-called professional folk.  I fear that actual editors may be a dying breed.


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## pjrose (Jul 9, 2011)

pwrshift said:


> My iPad often 'corrects' what I've typed with words I never intended, and I find I have to cross check everything I write with it.  Some of the changes it makes are hilarious...like the three I had to manually change in *this shirt post.*



And the shirt you didn't change to short?  After reading Alan's post about the SHIRT with no "R" sale, this is even funnier - just think how your iPad could have "corrected" shirt for you!


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## SueDonJ (Jul 9, 2011)

I re-read everything I type, hit the Preview button, make changes, hit the Preview button again, make changes, Preview again, Submit, re-read, play the "beat the edit clock" game to make more changes, close out all the windows, re-read, try the game again, make more changes, curse when the game beats me, go back and put some foolish "Spelling Police" or "Grammar Police" or "DOH! moment" or "forgot the link" or ... or ... or reason for editing ...

It's a never-ending cycle and nothing gets on my nerves more than re-reading an old post of mine that someone has resurrected and finding spelling or grammar errors, or realizing that there's a better way to put into words what I was trying to say.

That's my OCD - writing.  It's been my OCD since I first wrote book reports back in third grade.  And it doesn't matter if it's a To-Do List, a post on TUG, or something important - I'm doomed to use too many words, and to edit it in my head forever after.


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## pedro47 (Jul 9, 2011)

pjrose said:


> In answer to the original question, no, not usually, but this thread reminded me to do so today!



 Ditto and ditto !!!!


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## MichaelColey (Jul 9, 2011)

AwayWeGo said:


> *GIGANTIC SHIRT SALE*
> 
> *. . .* except that somehow the letter "R" got left out.


It's a pretty common typo:

http://tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1130110#post1130110


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## pjrose (Jul 9, 2011)

SueDonJ said:


> I re-read everything I type, hit the Preview button, make changes, hit the Preview button again, make changes, Preview again, Submit, re-read, play the "beat the edit clock" game to make more changes, close out all the windows, re-read, try the game again, make more changes, curse when the game beats me, go back and put some foolish "Spelling Police" or "Grammar Police" or "DOH! moment" or "forgot the link" or ... or ... or reason for editing ...
> 
> It's a never-ending cycle and nothing gets on my nerves more than re-reading an old post of mine that someone has resurrected and finding spelling or grammar errors, or realizing that there's a better way to put into words what I was trying to say.
> 
> That's my OCD - writing.  It's been my OCD since I first wrote book reports back in third grade.  And it doesn't matter if it's a To-Do List, a post on TUG, or something important - I'm doomed to use too many words, and to edit it in my head forever after.



If you see a grammatical or spelling error in a book or magazine, do you correct it?  I do  .  My colleagues soon found out that asking me to "look over" something meant I'd get out the red pen  .


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## AwayWeGo (Jul 12, 2011)

*Beyond Correction.*




pjrose said:


> If you see a grammatical or spelling error in a book or magazine, do you correct it?  I do  .  My colleagues soon found out that asking me to "look over" something meant I'd get out the red pen


The respected & well educated leader of a volunteer organization that we both belonged to wrote a history of the organization.  When he completed the writing & editing & proofreading, he asked me to "look over" the finished text just as a final check before the book went to press. 

Going over the whole thing carefully showed that it was extremely close to error-free.  (I might have found 1 actual but semi-trivial "error," but so what?) 

The author was surprised & astonished to get the book back all marked up.  "I went over it very carefully," he said.  "I didn't realize it had that much wrong with it."

Nothing was "wrong" with it, I explained.  All the mark-up (except for that 1 "error") was strictly editorial suggestions, not corrections -- i.e., ways of getting the author's ideas across more clearly, less ambiguously, in simpler & more familiar & less formal style, to make it easier to read.

I said I expected he would find each marked suggestion self-explanatory, & that he should disregard any of'm that he didn't like.  He said OK & thanked me in a tentative & semi-dubious way, & went home with the mark-up. 

Next day, the author called me up & thanked me again, expressing appreciation that I had added clarity & readability to his book without compromising his tone or making it sound like somebody else had written it.  He said the editorial suggestions were helpful & made a big difference.  

Years later, a friend we've known since our kids (hers & ours) were in Sunday school took on the self-assigned task of amanuensis & editor of an autobiography by a colorful West Point general who wanted to get his life story in print before his terminal illness cut short the opportunity. 

It was a big job. 

She started by taping hours & hours & days & days of conversations with the general, in which he reminisced & told stories, starting more or less at the beginning but also digressing & changing directions in the middle of a tale, just as any of us would be apt to do.  

When the general declared that the whole story had been recorded, the next job was transcribing all the tapes, a major undertaking in itself.  Next was organizing and arranging the hundreds of pages, in an attempt to turn all those rambling recollections into a coherent (& consistent) story.

That was an even bigger job. 

Eventually the outline & form of a respectable & readable book could be seen, once the duplications were cut & the disjointed accounts of various events were spliced.  Pictures from the general's trunkful of photos were added, and before much longer a credible & creditable book took shape.  

I had no involvement in any of that, but from hearing The Chief Of Staff's side of many phone conversations with the book editor (&, in effect, the "as told to" co-author), I could see what was coming. 

After a few more weeks, just as I guessed, the author declared that the book was done & asked me to "look over" the finished text just as a final check before the book went to press.  

I could hardly refuse, so I bent to the task right away -- because by then it was uncertain whether the book could be completed & printed before the general reached the end of the trail.  

The result was a virtual replay of what happened with the organizational history I had been asked to "look over" years before.  There were very few mistakes (i.e., "errors") in the book telling the general's life story, but there were lots & lots of places where a little deft trimming or minor rephrasing or word reordering, etc., would add to the book's clarity & readability.  

That's what I told our friend when she was semi-aghast at how heavily I had marked up what she thought was practically a finished product.  As with the earlier book, I said I expected she would find each marked suggestion self-explanatory, & that she should disregard any she didn't like.  As before, she liked & accepted practically all the suggestions once she took a close look.  

(The general passed away just about the time the presses started rolling.  Cartons of his autobiography were brought to his military send-off at Arlingtion National Cemetery, where his mortal remains were laid to rest side by side with those of his late father, also a West Point general.) 

Those mark-up stories help illustrate why editing, including self-editing, goes way beyond proofreading.  During my working days, a few times (not many, thank God) I had finished drafts handed in to me that were 100% error-free even though there was nothing right or usable in them anywhere from start to finish.  Not only that, those draft documents would not edit & could not be made usable by marking them up.  I would be closer to having a usable document with a fresh stack of blank stationery in front of me than with what had been handed in as a finished work assignment.  

Unsurprisingly, the people responsible for such execrable work had no idea what was the matter.  If they did have any clue, they wouldn't have written so poorly -- so beyond poor. 

One of those non-writing writers apparently believed that because she had an official U.S. civil service position description certifying her as a GS-12 Writer-Editor, everything she wrote was therefore by definition _professional_ & _professional quality writing_.  (I have also known PhDs who seemed to believe that because of their advanced degrees, anything they said or thought or wrote was therefore by definition intelligent & smart & better than anything said or thought or written by any non-PhD, case closed.  But that's another story.)

In short, it's _thinking_ that's difficult.  By comparison, writing is easy. 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


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## ace2000 (Jul 12, 2011)

Alan, I noticed you had to edit that previous post.  Are you slipping a bit???

Seriously, thanks for being a part of this thread.  You've given me a lot of food for thought and I just remembered I still have to dive into the earlier links you provided.

Thanks!


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## AwayWeGo (Jul 12, 2011)

*A Bit?  That Is An Understatement.*




ace2000 said:


> I noticed you had to edit that previous post.  Are you slipping a bit?


Slipping.  Bigtime. 

I clicked the "send in" button when I intended to click the "preview" button.  

Revision & rewriting done much after that count as "edits" far as the vBulletin software is concerned.  

(Not that there's anything wrong with editing.)

So it goes. 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


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## pjrose (Jul 12, 2011)

AwayWeGo said:


> . . .  West Point general who wanted to get his life story in print before his terminal illness cut short the opportunity.
> 
> . . .
> 
> ...



Alan, my father was a West Point General whose memoirs were recorded by a Major(?) who turned them into a book.  The process was similar to what you described, though my mother was unhappy that the writer/editor used some words and expressions that dad never would have used, so parts weren't in his "voice".  

He, too, is in Arlington, and his memoirs are at the Army Heritage and Education Center in Carlisle.


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## AwayWeGo (Jul 12, 2011)

*R. H. I. P.*




pjrose said:


> Alan, my father was a West Point General whose memoirs were recorded by a Major(?) who turned them into a book.  The process was similar to what you described, though my mother was unhappy that the write/editor used some words and expressions that dad never would have used, so parts weren't in his "voice".
> 
> He, too, is in Arlington, and his memoirs are at the Army Heritage and Education Center in Carlisle.


I'm guessing the working relationship between a general & a major is somewhat different from the give & take between a general & a successful & independent-minded civilian woman who does not take any baloney.  

That is to say, a major's customary response to a general is, "Yes, sir." 

By contrast, an independent-minded non-military woman is more apt to tell the general, "Now hold on there just 1 minute."  

Rank hath its privileges, but they go only so far.

_Full Disclosure*:*_  I was in the army 1965-68.  (Made E-5).  My sister married an ROTC air force officer who retired as full colonel.  Of us 8 guys who hung around together in high school, 7 served in the military & 5 were career officers -- 1 each in the army, navy, marines, air force, & coast guard, all OCS or the equivalent.  The other guy who served an enlisted hitch was in the air force 4 years.  His older brother did a 2-year hitch as an army draftee.  Five of the original crew of 8 are still living & still in touch with 1 another.  My father's sister was married to an army master sergeant.  One of their daughters served a 4-year hitch in the air force & 1 of their sons got drafted into the army (served 2 years). 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


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## ace2000 (Jul 12, 2011)

pjrose said:


> Alan, my father was a West Point General


 
Wow, impressive!  Seriously, I have a great amount of respect for anyone that has attained the rank of general in our Armed Forces.  That is great accomplishment, and I've never even met one myself.


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## pjrose (Jul 12, 2011)

ace2000 said:


> Wow, impressive!  Seriously, I have a great amount of respect for anyone that has attained the rank of general in our Armed Forces.  That is great accomplishment, and I've never even met one myself.



Off Topic (so what else is new?) but he made Brigadier General when I was six, and retired as Lieutenant General when I was in college.  Depending on where we were stationed, he was often the Commanding General of the post.  As far as I can remember, I was the "General's Daughter" and was often presumed to have extra privileges etc.  HA!  I wasn't allowed to get away with anything lest it reflect badly on him.  

He had a great sense of humor; one day when he was off duty and working in our garden on post, a little boy wandered by and asked what his name was.  Dad said "Zilch."  A day or so later, the boy and his father walked by and the boy said "Hi Zilch!".  Apparently the lower-ranking father about had a cow


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## ace2000 (Jul 12, 2011)

pjrose said:


> Off Topic (so what else is new?) but he made Brigadier General when I was six, and retired as Lieutenant General when I was in college.  Depending on where we were stationed, he was often the Commanding General of the post.  As far as I can remember, I was the "General's Daughter" and was often presumed to have extra privileges etc.  HA!  I wasn't allowed to get away with anything lest it reflect badly on him.
> 
> He had a great sense of humor; one day when he was off duty and working in our garden on post, a little boy wandered by and asked what his name was.  Dad said "Zilch."  A day or so later, the boy and his father walked by and the boy said "Hi Zilch!".  Apparently the lower-ranking father about had a cow


 
That's a great story!


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## MuranoJo (Jul 12, 2011)

Alan,
Your #53 gently let me know I made a mistake in my #52.  That was pretty smooth of you.
OMG, after getting a bit puffy about my writing skills--that will teach me! :hysterical:  And too late to edit of course.


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## AwayWeGo (Jul 12, 2011)

*Smooth Is My Middle Name.*




muranojo said:


> That was pretty smooth of you.


I'm just going through a phase. 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


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## MuranoJo (Jul 12, 2011)

I've been ratted out!!   Should have set it up as a contest to see who found it first.


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## pjrose (Jul 12, 2011)

muranojo said:


> I've been ratted out!!   Should have set it up as a contest to see who found it first.



I noticed it, but wasn't quite sure it was wrong.  I read so much "studentese" that some common misspellings start to look correct


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## AwayWeGo (Jul 13, 2011)

*Close Only Counts In Horseshoes & Hand Grenades.*




pjrose said:


> I noticed it, but wasn't quite sure it was wrong.


Mark Twain said the difference between the right word & almost the right word is like the difference between the lightning & the lightning bug. 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


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## pjrose (Jul 13, 2011)

I thought "faze" was a fairly new word, a variation of "phase," but looked it up and found that it is American, from 1820-30, a form of "feeze".  "Feeze" refers to "a state of vexation or worry" with a Middle English origin.  (Dictionary.com)


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## AwayWeGo (May 1, 2012)

*Proofreading Tips From A Pro.  (Proofing Your Own Stuff, That Is.)*



ace2000 said:


> Any tricks out there?


Professional tips from Kathy Shaidle *. . .* 

It’s almost impossible to proofread your own work, but you also want to submit the best copy or article (or report to your boss) that you can.

Here’s how I get around that:

If I have an assignment due Tuesday morning, I take one last look at it Monday night, then sleep on it.

On Tuesday morning, I open the Word doc and immediately change the size and type of the font.

If I wrote the article in Verdana, I change it to a serif font like Times, then bump it up two sizes.

I may even switch the text to blue, green, or red.

*This tricks my brain into reading the piece as if for the first time.* Inevitably, I notice a typo, factual error, overused word, or awkward sentence.

I may also incorporate any overnight brainstorms.

Plus I may realize, to my embarrassment, that I forgot to include the joke or factoid that sold the editor on my idea in the first place, or that I didn’t use the client’s SEO keywords often enough.

After I make these corrections, I change the fonts back to normal and send it to my client or editor.

Doing this has improved the quality of my writing exponentially. It certainly gives everything I write a more professional polish.


Click here for the complete article, which is mainly about what it takes to succeed at free-lance writing. 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


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## AwayWeGo (May 1, 2012)

*Final Resting Place At Arlington National Cemetery.*



AwayWeGo said:


> The general passed away just about the time the presses started rolling.  Cartons of his autobiography were brought to his military send-off at Arlingtion National Cemetery, where his mortal remains were laid to rest side by side with those of his late father, also a West Point general.





-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


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## MichaelColey (May 1, 2012)

AwayWeGo said:


> I open the Word doc and immediately change the size and type of the font.
> 
> If I wrote the article in Verdana, I change it to a serif font like Times, then bump it up two sizes.
> 
> ...


Excellent suggestion. I have a friend who is a professional editor who made a very similar suggestion on Facebook just last week.

Of course that doesn't help much when you're writing a TUG post here, though.


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## Quiet Pine (May 2, 2012)

rickandcindy23 said:


> the grammatical error of saying, "It's the same for Rick and _me_"



That's correct! I cringe when people say, "for he and I." I spent years as a copywriter & copy editor, and still have a little editor in my head that catches mistakes--including my own.

Alan is spot on about Strunk and White. It was one of the first books required when I was a freshman at Cornell. I now have two copies. The paperback is only 1/4" thick. Thanks to S&W, I've been Omitting Needless Words for 50+ years.

Another recommendation is *Eats, Shoots & Leaves* by Lynne Truss. It's about punctuation and it's entertaining--and that's not an oxymoron.

As for editing--I do read over what I've written and check grammar and spelling.


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## AwayWeGo (May 2, 2012)

*Me & Julio Down By The School Yard.*




Quiet Pine said:


> I cringe when people say, "for he and I."


The cringeworthy habit comes from well-meaning 3rd grade teachers (& parents of 3rd graders) who keep correcting kids when they say, "Can me & Jimmy go out & play?"

"No, no," they say. "May Jimmy & *I* go out & play." 

The main part of the lesson that sticks through adulthood, apparently, is "and I."

However that may be, click here for _Me & Julio Down By The School Yard_.

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


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## AwayWeGo (May 2, 2012)

*25¢*




Quiet Pine said:


> Alan is spot on about Strunk and White. It was one of the first books required when I was a freshman at Cornell. I now have two copies. The paperback is only 1/4" thick. Thanks to S&W, I've been Omitting Needless Words for 50+ years.


Not everybody who buys Strunk & White in college keeps it after graduation. 

The slim paperbacks turn up now & then at yard sales, etc.  When I see'm for a dime or a quarter or so, I snap'm up.  That way I have a small supply on hand to give people who ask me about writing & editing, etc.  _The Little Book_ answers most questions along those lines lots better than anything I could tell people. 

Meanwhile, not everybody associates S&W with revising & rewriting.  Click here for what comes up when I type S&W in a Google Images search box.   

So it goes. 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


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## theo (May 2, 2012)

*Tiring grey matter?*



Quiet Pine said:


> <snip> As for editing--I do read over what I've written and check grammar and spelling.



Not so easy with TUG posts, however. While I _try_ to proof my posts here before actual submission, my (apparently addled) brain often does not even see the errors I've made. More often than not, I only "catch" them later, perhaps in the context of seeing a reply and edit at that time (if not already too late).

I'm just going to write it off to "aging synapses", I guess...


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## AwayWeGo (May 4, 2012)

*Writing Is Easy.  Thinking Is Hard.*

Click here for a brief comment on the subject, including a link to a slightly less brief article along the same lines.

The slightly longer short article contains a link to a higher education essay on the subject, plus a quotation from _Less Than Words Can Say_, by The Underground Grammarian.

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


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## Fern Modena (May 4, 2012)

I am a touch typist, so if I make a mistake I generally either feel it or see it right away and correct it.  I don't miss them often as I type.  BUT, I have two fingers on my left hand which have very little use/feeling now, and they often forget what they are doing.  So once in a while that slips me up, though not too often.  Besides, this is the internet, so take it with a grain of salt. 

I have a pretty good grasp of grammar, word usage and punctuation.  I was on the school newspaper for a few years, and also took business English.  I know when to use me, and when to use I.  I also know the difference between most homonyms (words which sound the same but mean different things).  But again, I read others posts, and know what they mean, regardless of what they write.  I'd hate to stifle creativity.

Fern


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## geekette (May 4, 2012)

Thank you, Fern!

once upon a time I was a professional writer, but that is a very long time ago, and it was business writing, so not always straight grammar rules.

Since then, I write like I talk. Make up my own abbreviations.  Sometimes make typos.  I care far less about an internet typo than a resume one, so, it's rare for me to 'proofread' anything.  My review would have more to do with clarity of meaning and diplomacy.

Bottom line for me is that I COULD adhere to whatever style guide but I see no reason to make chit chatting on the internet into formal communications.  I have no reason to be grammatically correct and am not concerned what others may think of my writing style nor how it may affect their opinion of my education and intelligence.  

Like Fern, I prefer to read for content vs correctness.  If a person can get their point across, that's good enuf for me.  I do not grade posters nor judge them by their writing style.  It's not my place.

I'm sure most of my posts would have red pen all over them, maybe some make people cringe, but I ain't got no reason to care no more bout that there stuff.


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## ace2000 (May 4, 2012)

Why don't we all make TUG a better place and correct each other's spelling and grammar errors when we see them?   

Most people really do want to have their mistakes corrected, that is until their mistakes are corrected...


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## pjrose (May 4, 2012)

geekette said:


> Thank you, Fern!
> . . .  I ain't got no reason to care no more bout that there stuff.



Yo Geekey, y'all headed down ter Slimey Slough enytime soon awhile yet?


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## ampaholic (May 4, 2012)

ace2000 said:


> Most people really do want to have their mistakes corrected, that is until their mistakes are corrected...



Humm, I suppose that's why some drivers "drive" with their horn and middle finger always on parade?


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## AwayWeGo (Aug 18, 2012)

*That's About The Size Of It.*



ampaholic said:


> I suppose that's why some drivers "drive" with their horn and middle finger always on parade?






-- hotlinked --​
-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


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