# Forced to Use W57 Points for Flamingo Reservation



## TheCryptkeeper (Aug 8, 2018)

We own Hilton timeshares at the Flamingo and at W57 NYC.  We used all of our Flamingo points previously this year and wanted to borrow points for a three-day visit this September.  We were planning on saving our W57 NYC points for a trip sometime next year.   

We just found out, however, that the system will not allow us to borrow Flamingo points from next year while there is still a W57 By Hilton Club point balance for this year, which means we have to use our current year’s W57 NYC points for our Las Vegas trip.   

Calling reservations was useless.   After checking with a supervisor, the representative said there was nothing they could do about the situation, that their system uses the oldest points first.  

It leaves a bitter taste in the mouth.   If the situation is reversed, the system will not use the Flamingo points for a W57 reservation, and instead borrows from next year’s W57 allocation (at least if it’s outside the 45-day window -- and good luck ever finding availability inside that 45-day window).  This might be a good reason to consider keeping By Hilton Club and Hilton Grand Vacations ownerships separated.


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## CalGalTraveler (Aug 8, 2018)

@TheCryptkeeper   Sorry you got the runaround. I wrote a thread 8 months ago that the separation of points was a hassle and I do not believe staff understands it well.

This might be a good workaround: Try booking a dummy 2018 NYC reservation with your remaining 2018 by Hilton club points. Using up the points will enable you to then borrow your Flamingo points. You can then release the dummy reservation once the res is confirmed.


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## frank808 (Aug 8, 2018)

I was going to suggest the same.  No cost to book the dummy reservation as you belong to the club.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


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## Cyberc (Aug 8, 2018)

frank808 said:


> No cost to book the dummy reservation as you belong to the club.



Unless you dont have the AI membership as part of your West57 ownership? If you dont, just call member services and they can add it. All future reservations will be free 

I second booking the dummy reservation and then borrow the vegas points for your other trip. 

Wonder why club services didn't suggest that, unless they thought that it would incur another booking fee.


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## TheCryptkeeper (Aug 8, 2018)

Must have missed that post, @CalGalTraveler.  Thanks for the suggestions, all.  We have the AI membership so I'll try the dummy reservation today and update you.  But I wish they would fix this issue.  It's a big PITA.


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## TheCryptkeeper (Aug 8, 2018)

Well, lesson learned the hard way.  That appears like it will work, however, we already purchased a guest certificate (our daughter will be using the timeshare) and cancellation protection, which we'll forfeit if the original reservation is cancelled.  Had we read @CalGalTraveler's post ahead of time, we could have avoided this expensive lesson.


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## Cyberc (Aug 8, 2018)

TheCryptkeeper said:


> Well, lesson learned the hard way.  That appears like it will work, however, we already purchased a guest certificate (our daughter will be using the timeshare) and cancellation protection, which we'll forfeit if the original reservation is cancelled.  Had we read @CalGalTraveler's post ahead of time, we could have avoided this expensive lesson.



can't remember if we have a 24 hour grace period with HGVC as we have with RCI ?


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## TheCryptkeeper (Aug 8, 2018)

According to the representative I spoke with a short while ago (who I might add, wasn't the most pleasant) we would lose those fees.  This reservation was placed approximately 12 hours ago.  I agree with @CalGalTraveler's assessment.  The staff doesn't understand the separation of points.  Two representatives have told me that their system doesn't distinguish between points, which I know is false.  If it were true, then we could utilize our Flamingo points to book at W57 outside the 45-day window.


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## Tamaradarann (Aug 8, 2018)

TheCryptkeeper said:


> According to the representative I spoke with a short while ago (who I might add, wasn't the most pleasant) we would lose those fees.  This reservation was placed approximately 12 hours ago.  I agree with @CalGalTraveler's assessment.  The staff doesn't understand the separation of points.  Two representatives have told me that their system doesn't distinguish between points, which I know is false.  If it were true, then we could utilize our Flamingo points to book at W57 outside the 45-day window.



The specific rules are important to keep in mind here.  When making a reservation the system uses last year points before current year points before next year points, without distinguishing.  However, when making reservations at most resorts you must own at a resort and use your home week to use your points within the 9-12 month window.  At certain resorts such as West 57th you must own there and use the points you own there for making a reservation before the 45 day window.  I know it is tough to see the difference since you own there, however, some owners that don't own there and resent that there are different rules for certain resorts in the same club than others.  Just think if what you want to do was allowed a person could have 50,000 points with only one small ownership at West 57th and use all of there points there before the 45 day window.


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## CalGalTraveler (Aug 8, 2018)

@TheCryptkeeper   I would HUCA and try again since it has only been 12 hours.  That is not right.  You have a right to reserve those points for a future NYC visit as you have paid extra for these points. It is not your fault the system is not set up to manage this correctly.

98% of the time I have had a great rep who is happy help.  Also there are some TUG posts that say that you should never pay for protection unless you are at the end of the year but I will defer to others since that's out of my wheelhouse.

Good luck!


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## brp (Aug 8, 2018)

TheCryptkeeper said:


> We own Hilton timeshares at the Flamingo and at W57 NYC.  We used all of our Flamingo points previously this year and wanted to borrow points for a three-day visit this September.  We were planning on saving our W57 NYC points for a trip sometime next year.
> 
> We just found out, however, that the system will not allow us to borrow Flamingo points from next year while there is still a W57 By Hilton Club point balance for this year, which means we have to use our current year’s W57 NYC points for our Las Vegas trip.
> 
> ...



Call back. I had exactly this same situation happen and they were able to correct it (coincidentally, use our next year's Flamingo points instead of this year's W. 57th) for an Elara reservation. It took only a few minutes for them to do it. 

The "By Hilton Club" points cost more, the MFs are (generally) more, and they brought about the separation. For them to be unable to maintain the separation across year boundaries is unacceptable. I can even understand that the online system is not set up to do it yet, but the reps should be able to (and can) do this.

I would definitely call back, more than once if need be, and escalate. Let them know that you have a friend/colleague (me ) who did exactly this and it was easy to fix.

Cheers.


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## CalGalTraveler (Aug 8, 2018)

Funny you called this a PITA.  These are exactly the same words I used to describe the split months ago!

https://tugbbs.com/forums/index.php?threads/splitting-nyc-points-pain-in-the-a.268503/#post-2118096


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## Tamaradarann (Aug 8, 2018)

brp said:


> Call back. I had exactly this same situation happen and they were able to correct it (coincidentally, use our next year's Flamingo points instead of this year's W. 57th) for an Elara reservation. It took only a few minutes for them to do it.
> 
> The "By Hilton Club" points cost more, the MFs are (generally) more, and they brought about the separation. For them to be unable to maintain the separation across year boundaries is unacceptable. I can even understand that the online system is not set up to do it yet, but the reps should be able to (and can) do this.
> 
> ...



I need to correct the statement in my previous e-mail related to this topic.  I was suggesting that the TheCryptkeeper couldn't use his Flamingo Points to book West 57th.  However, I agree that TheCryptkeeper should call back and if the call staff cannot switch to the use of next years Flaming points for the non West 57st reservation then an escalation to a supervisor or higher level person is in order to get an exception to the reservation point utilization rules.  While the statement about points being points having special reservation rules for certain resorts causes conflicts which need to be resolved on a case by case basis.


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## brp (Aug 8, 2018)

CalGalTraveler said:


> Funny you called this a PITA.  These are exactly the same words I used to describe the split months ago!
> 
> https://tugbbs.com/forums/index.php?threads/splitting-nyc-points-pain-in-the-a.268503/#post-2118096



Oh, it wasn't a PITA for me at all- very easy to handle. It would be a PITA if I had called and they would not do it. Most of what I wrote relates to that case, which didn't impact me. It was quite easy that time.

I would like it to work directly in the website, but that's a minor inconvenience.

Cheers.


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## CalGalTraveler (Aug 8, 2018)

It is a PITA for me because I now need to call to make sure it is right. This includes RCI reservations which may pull from the wrong bucket or return to the wrong bucket.

More diligence and time required for a rule they made up which costs all of HGVC more because you must use the call center.  I know call center use is free for W57 but sometimes I would like to just get the transaction done online during off hours.


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## brp (Aug 8, 2018)

CalGalTraveler said:


> It is a PITA for me because I now need to call to make sure it is right. This includes RCI reservations which may pull from the wrong bucket or return to the wrong bucket.
> 
> More diligence and time required for a rule they made up which costs all of HGVC more because you must use the call center.  I know call center use is free for W57 but sometimes I would like to just get the transaction done online during off hours.



Oh I hear ya- don't get me wrong. It's just that I expect this to happen no more than once a year, if that, so the level of inconvenience, averaged out, is small.

But it was enough for me to just send them an email to (again) explain the problem, let them know that it's "not ok," and ask when we can expect it to be fixed. 

Cheers.


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## Tamaradarann (Aug 8, 2018)

CalGalTraveler said:


> It is a PITA for me because I now need to call to make sure it is right. This includes RCI reservations which may pull from the wrong bucket or return to the wrong bucket.
> 
> More diligence and time required for a rule they made up which costs all of HGVC more because you must use the call center.  I know call center use is free for W57 but sometimes I would like to just get the transaction done online during off hours.



I am not sure which rule you are having a problem with.  Please specify.  The problem that you have with desiring to select on the website which points you want to use since you own West 57th Street as well as other resorts that don't have special reservation rules is certainly something that HGVC could have their IT people work on.  

However, my thoughts are:

First of all they shouldn't have made resorts with special reservation rules.  Just as owners at all resort need to reserve within the first 90 days(270-365 before the start date) to get owner preference, West 57th street should have the same rules if they are part of the same club.

Second, HGVC took a number of years to just get straight adding one day to a reservation that didn't have all the days available when your own reservation had the days.  This effected ALL HGVC members.

Third, I have complained for 2 years that the new Website won't let you add nights beyond 26 on line and have to call to add nights even though a reservation can go up to 30 nights.  Again this is an issue for ALL HGVC members.


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## brp (Aug 8, 2018)

Tamaradarann said:


> IJust as owners at all resort need to reserve within the first 90 days(270-365 before the start date) to get owner preference, West 57th street should have the same rules if they are part of the same club.



However, they are not part of the same club. This is why the rules differ.

Cheers.


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## CalGalTraveler (Aug 8, 2018)

Tamaradarann said:


> I am not sure which rule you are having a problem with.  Please soecify...
> 
> However, my thoughts are:
> 
> First of all they shouldn't have made resorts with special reservation rules.  Just as owners at all resort need to reserve within the first 90 days(270-365 before the start date) to get owner preference, West 57th street should have the same rules if they are part of the same club.



The issue is that they took a 1 × 3 (this year, 2019, 2020) points tracking problem and turned it into a 2 x 3 problem. Double the complexity - they tried to kill an ant with a sledgehammer.

Totally agree that they are over complicating things. Although they think it adds to their topline, complexity adds hidden costs and frustrates customers. There is a reason so many people like Southwest because they offer points redemption, 2 checked bags, no fee cancellation etc on ALL flights - simple.


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## Denise L (Aug 8, 2018)

This is frustrating to read, and I hope that the OP called back again and again until the transaction was fixed to use the Flamingo points and not the W57 points, with all extra fees refunded.  I can see this happening to me in the future when I finally find my W57 contract.  I will always have to make a dummy W57 reservation using W57 points before I book anything if I want to only use my Elara points.  HGVC still hasn't gotten back to me about the problem with not being able to book a single night anymore at W57 at 44/45 days from checkout.


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## TheCryptkeeper (Aug 8, 2018)

Thanks for all the advice. After calling Hilton a third time and speaking with another representative that conferred with her supervisor, the representative again insisted points were points and that their system doesn’t distinguish between Club points and By Hilton Club Points. She claimed she had made reservations at W57 many times for people who didn’t have any By Hilton Club points remaining but still had a balance of Club points.  She said one of the perks of owning at W57 was that I could use either type of point to book there.


I explained that that may have been the case previously, but not any longer.  I then recited the Club rules to her, at which point she agreed with me and agreed to change my reservation without any charge for the new guest certificate and points protection.  However, when she tried to borrow the points from my Flamingo account, the system once again took them from my W57 allotment.  She said it was a glitch and made the new reservation with a note to a higher-level supervisor.  As of right now, the points are still missing from my By Hilton Club balance.  We’ll see how this goes and I’ll keep everyone posted.


They really need to get this resolved.  I don’t have a problem not being able to use my Club points at W57 since that's the rule.  However, I do have a problem if they force me to use my W57 points to book at Flamingo or another HGVC resort, leaving me with less points to use at W57 after I pay a premium for those points.


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## brp (Aug 8, 2018)

TheCryptkeeper said:


> I explained that that may have been the case previously, but not any longer.  I then recited the Club rules to her, at which point she agreed with me and agreed to change my reservation without any charge for the new guest certificate and points protection.  However, when she tried to borrow the points from my Flamingo account, the system once again took them from my W57 allotment.  She said it was a glitch and made the new reservation with a note to a higher-level supervisor.  As of right now, the points are still missing from my By Hilton Club balance.  We’ll see how this goes and I’ll keep everyone posted.



When I did it, it also had to be done by a supervisor. I was told that the balances would work themselves out within 24 hours. It took far less than that.

What is disappointing here is the the CS folks, in many cases, don't actually know that one can no longer use regular points for By Hilton Club reservations. One guy said that it was definitely possible. He tried and then said "oh, I guess not." They have not educated their staff, it seems.

It was a nice loophole while it lasted. Now that they've really closed it, I certainly expect the staff to know the rules.

Cheers.


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## TheCryptkeeper (Aug 9, 2018)

Well, it's been almost 24 hours and the balances have NOT worked themselves out yet.  After three phone calls and two hours on the phone I am still exactly where I was at the beginning of this entire mess.  Hopefully, it will be resolved by this evening and the 460 By Hilton Club points will be returned.  If they're not, I guess another phone call and more wasted time is in order.  Thank you for all the support and allowing me to vent.


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## Tamaradarann (Aug 9, 2018)

brp said:


> However, they are not part of the same club. This is why the rules differ.
> 
> Cheers.


I thought West 57th street was part of the HGVC.  If they are NOT in the same club then the points should be listed separately and accounted for separately and only those points should be used for reservations for those clubs.  Then exchanges between those clubs, just like with RCI, should be done according to the rules that are established between those two clubs.  Perhaps, just as HGVC members can't reserve West 57th until 45days out, West 57th street owners can't reserve at HGVC resorts until 45 days out, can't use open season cash at HGVC resorts, and perhaps pay a Housekeeping fee for less than 7 day stays!


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## CalGalTraveler (Aug 9, 2018)

Tamaradarann said:


> I thought West 57th street was part of the HGVC.... Perhaps, just as HGVC members can't reserve West 57th until 45days out, West 57th street owners can't reserve at HGVC resorts until 45 days out, can't use open season cash at HGVC resorts, and perhaps pay a Housekeeping fee for less than 7 day stays!



Not true. W57 and all By Hilton Club enjoys all the privileges of HGVC with 9 month club, open season etc. But HGVC is limited in By Hilton Club to 44 day leftovers and no open season in By Hilton Club


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## brp (Aug 9, 2018)

Tamaradarann said:


> I thought West 57th street was part of the HGVC.  If they are NOT in the same club then the points should be listed separately and accounted for separately and only those points should be used for reservations for those clubs.  Then exchanges between those clubs, just like with RCI, should be done according to the rules that are established between those two clubs.  Perhaps, just as HGVC members can't reserve West 57th until 45days out, West 57th street owners can't reserve at HGVC resorts until 45 days out, can't use open season cash at HGVC resorts, and perhaps pay a Housekeeping fee for less than 7 day stays!



They're not the same club. The points are listed separately and accounted for separately. The rules for exchanges between those two clubs are well-defined.

The main difference from what you're saying is that HGVC (who control both of these different clubs) have decided to make these rules non-reciprocal. By Hilton Club points have more "rights" than regular HGVC poinst. Regular points are more limited in their access to the By Hilton Club properties while the By Hilton Club points have full access to regular HGVC properties. For these additional "rights" the buy-in price is higher and MFs typically are as well.

So, again, they are different clubs with non-reciprocal rules. Those rules, such as they are, are well-published, however.

Cheers.


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## Tamaradarann (Aug 9, 2018)

CalGalTraveler said:


> Not true. W57 and all By Hilton Club enjoys all the privileges of HGVC with 9 month club, open season etc. But HGVC is limited in By Hilton Club to 44 day leftovers and no open season in By Hilton Club



I was responding to brp saying they were the same club.  My premise is that they are part of the same club, but the rules are different.  I am an HGVC member, however, not being an owner of THAT resort I can't reserve at W57 street during club season until 45 days out and I can't book Open Season using cash.


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## Tamaradarann (Aug 9, 2018)

CalGalTraveler said:


> Not true. W57 and all By Hilton Club enjoys all the privileges of HGVC with 9 month club, open season etc. But HGVC is limited in By Hilton Club to 44 day leftovers and no open season in By Hilton Club



I was responding to brp saying they were the same club.  My premise is that they are part of the same club, but the rules are different.  I am an HGVC member, however, not being an owner of THAT resort I can't reserve at W57 street during club season until 45 days out and I can't book Open Season using cash.


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## CalGalTraveler (Aug 9, 2018)

@Tamaradarann   NP.  Thanks


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## Tamaradarann (Aug 9, 2018)

brp said:


> They're not the same club. The points are listed separately and accounted for separately. The rules for exchanges between those two clubs are well-defined.
> 
> The main difference from what you're saying is that HGVC (who control both of these different clubs) have decided to make these rules non-reciprocal. By Hilton Club points have more "rights" than regular HGVC poinst. Regular points are more limited in their access to the By Hilton Club properties while the By Hilton Club points have full access to regular HGVC properties. For these additional "rights" the buy-in price is higher and MFs typically are as well.
> 
> ...


If they are NOT the same club then why are they on the same website so that the points could be a problem for TheCryptkeeper that started this thread.  I know when W57st opened it was part of HGVC.  Since I don't own there I don't follow the changes in jurisdiction.  The special rules is a turn off and I will be happy and enjoy Honolulu rather than deal with the specialties of NYC.  We are going on a rare trip to NYC to see Carmen Jones Play, which is one of my favorites, this Saturday.  We will be taking the broken down Long Island Railroad and getting in and out of NYC as soon as possible back to Long Island.  I worked for SUNY and CUNY during my career and even though my retirement time combined it was a struggle to put them together because they were separate retirement systems with different rules but the State underwrote the City system so that the time was transferable.  If I worked for a local school instead of CUNY(City University of NY) the NYS retirement system would have been the same.  NYC had to be different.


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## brp (Aug 9, 2018)

Tamaradarann said:


> If they are NOT the same club then why are they on the same website so that the points could be a problem for TheCryptkeeper that started this thread.  I know when W57st opened it was part of HGVC. The special rules is a turn off...



It was always separate, but the points were lumped. It was only where one owned that mattered.

Earlier this year, they actually did separate the points on the website and, unfortunately, the separation works very well in most cases 

Crossing year boundaries is an area where there are still glitches.

I can understand the special rules being a turn off for those who can't take advantage of them. For those of us who paid the premium for these special rules, they have distinct advantages.

And they are on the same website because they are both managed by HGVC.

Cheers.


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## magmue (Aug 9, 2018)

> ...Regular points are more limited in their access to the By Hilton Club properties while the By Hilton Club points have full access to regular HGVC properties. For these additional "rights" the buy-in price is higher and MFs typically are as well.


Yes, but. MF already vary from place to place throughout the "regular" HGVC system. So do buy-in prices. IMO HGVC could easily justify the higher charges for NYC and their growing portfolio of By Hilton Club locations based on the higher costs of building and running big city downtown facilities. 
I agree with the other TUG members who have theorized that one of HGVC's goals for By Hilton Club is to ratchet up their overall prices and point structures, in addition to marketing to potential owners who want a more exclusive Club. In the process the "regular" property owners are, for the most part, on the outside looking in. 
I wonder if HGVC plans to eventually spin out multiple Hilton Collections as some other systems do? Sigh.


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## dayooper (Aug 9, 2018)

magmue said:


> Yes, but. MF already vary from place to place throughout the "regular" HGVC system. So do buy-in prices. IMO HGVC could easily justify the higher charges for NYC and their growing portfolio of By Hilton Club locations based on the higher costs of building and running big city downtown facilities.
> *I agree with the other TUG members who have theorized that one of HGVC's goals for By Hilton Club is to ratchet up their overall prices and point structures, in addition to marketing to potential owners who want a more exclusive Club. In the process the "regular" property owners are, for the most part, on the outside looking in. *
> I wonder if HGVC plans to eventually spin out multiple Hilton Collections as some other systems do? Sigh.



Of course that’s goal. It’s a way to get members who wouldn’t normally buy more points to buy more. They are pushing the flexibility of using your points for both regular HGVC properties and by Hilton Club. They first tried to make resorts with higher point rooms (more 2 and 3 bedroom plus and premiere rooms). It’s also the reason why the point values for the Grand Islander and Ocean Tower are so high, they want people to purchase more units. The higher points totals backfired a bit because people went to the resale market to get more points, so they invented a new system where you had to own in the system to get the best chance to book there. Notice they didn’t say you had to own to book there. 

My fear with HGVC is that all of the new properties will be the by Hilton Club. So far, the by Hilton Club has been urban properties like NYC, DC and the upcoming Charleston/Chicago properties. The rumor mill has HGVC buying some rooms at The Crane in Barbados and that will be by Hilton Club as well. With the new Myrtle Beach (Ocean Enclave) and Mexico properties being regular HGVC, it makes me feel like they aren’t leaving the regular HGVC behind. Even if those are the last regular HGVC properties built, there are enough destinations to keep me happy with my measly 7000 points. If I need more? I can always purchase on the resale market.

My guess is they will keep the two “divisions” under the same roof. Even though most Tuggers know not to use their by Hilton Club points for regular HGVC, they push that flexibility in the sales presentation. It gives potential buyers more “options” and that’s a great selling point.


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## TheCryptkeeper (Aug 9, 2018)

Update:  Sometime this afternoon -- around the 24-hour mark -- this issue resolved itself.  Our points from W57 were returned and points from Flamingo were borrowed instead.

However, I needed to call Hilton one more time and spend another 20 minutes on the phone because the new reservation didn't include the guest certificate for my daughter that I had originally purchased.  For a fourth time I needed to explain the situation to another representative, she had to check with her supervisor, and I had to spend another 20 minutes at this circus before they got everything right.

I love the Hilton product, but even at resale prices this is not a good way to keep customers.  I have better ways to spend my time.


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## brp (Aug 9, 2018)

TheCryptkeeper said:


> I love the Hilton product, but even at resale prices this is not a good way to keep customers.  I have better ways to spend my time.



Your experience is ludicrous. Sorry you had the go through this. 

I still haven't heard back from the email I sent yesterday explaining the situation and asking when it will be fixed 

Cheers.


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## TheCryptkeeper (Aug 9, 2018)

Thank you for your support @brp and taking the time to write HGV about this glitch in their reservation system.  Hopefully, they'll fix it soon.


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## dayooper (Aug 9, 2018)

TheCryptkeeper said:


> Update:  Sometime this afternoon -- around the 24-hour mark -- this issue resolved itself.  Our points from W57 were returned and points from Flamingo were borrowed instead.
> 
> However, I needed to call Hilton one more time and spend another 20 minutes on the phone because the new reservation didn't include the guest certificate for my daughter that I had originally purchased.  For a fourth time I needed to explain the situation to another representative, she had to check with her supervisor, and I had to spend another 20 minutes at this circus before they got everything right.
> 
> I love the Hilton product, but even at resale prices this is not a good way to keep customers.  I have better ways to spend my time.



That’s just plain bad customer service. I hope that will be the last issue you have with this mess.


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## CalGalTraveler (Aug 10, 2018)

@TheCryptkeeper glad you got it resolved. What a PITA.

+1 @dayooper's comment that HGVC are trying to get you to buy more properties. It seems that an "ideal portfolio" now includes a By Hilton offering to get preferential reservations at these properties ie the By Hilton property you own at 9 mos, open season, plus 60 days to other By Hilton instead of 44. Also a few elite only benefits eg AI reservations, gold HHonors.

Hope they are not going to destroy the relative beauty and simplicity of current system to add hidden cost, staff confusion like credit cards e.g. by design there is not one credit card that does everything - this is so they can sell you more than one to enable unique benefits.


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## brp (Aug 10, 2018)

Well, some positive news on this (and I've found them to be quite responsive once they say they're going to do something). In response to my email to them:



			
				HGVC said:
			
		

> Good morning,
> 
> 
> This is actually an issues I just recently brought up to our digital team as another member had the same concern about their points.  A club reservation, non BHC reservation, should always use regular HGV points first.  We are still working on some of the functionalities of the By Hilton Club points as it is not yet a perfect system.  If ever a reservation does not use the points that you intended to use, please email us or call us so that we can fix it for you.  We hope to have it all working correctly in the future however, there is no current ETA on when that may be.  We appreciate your continue patience as we work on this.



Fingers crossed.

(By the way, I did let her know that, while it was this easy for me, that does not seem to be universally the case and it seems more training may br in order)

Cheers.


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## TheCryptkeeper (Aug 10, 2018)

CalGalTraveler said:


> @TheCryptkeeper glad you got it resolved. What a PITA.
> 
> +1 @dayooper's comment that HGVC are trying to get you to buy more properties. It seems that an "ideal portfolio" now includes a By Hilton offering to get preferential reservations at these properties ie the By Hilton property you own at 9 mos, open season, plus 60 days to other By Hilton instead of 44. Also a few elite only benefits eg AI reservations, gold HHonors.
> 
> Hope they are not going to destroy the relative beauty and simplicity of current system to add hidden cost, staff confusion like credit cards e.g. by design there is not one credit card that does everything - this is so they can sell you more than one to enable unique benefits.



I learn something new on this forum every day


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## Tamaradarann (Aug 10, 2018)

TheCryptkeeper said:


> I learn something new on this forum every day



So do I, it is a great forum.  I didn't realize that the "Hilton Club" even existed, I thought it was all HGVC.  Now that I understand the issue more clearly, even if they want to have both clubs on the same website they need to separate the points and inventory so that there is no confusion.  If a Hilton Club Member wants to reserve a Hilton Club resort with Hilton Club points they click the Hilton Club ICON and log in as a Hilton Club Member and go to the Hilton Club section of the website.  If a Hilton Club member wants to use their Hilton Club points for an HGVC Club they go through the same sign in process, but clink on the link to the HGVC inventory.  If a Hilton Club Member is also an HGVC Club Member they click the HGVC ICON and log in as a HGVC Club Member and use their HGVC points.


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## brp (Aug 10, 2018)

Tamaradarann said:


> So do I, it is a great forum.  I didn't realize that the "Hilton Club" even existed, I thought it was all HGVC.  Now that I understand the issue more clearly, even if they want to have both clubs on the same website they need to separate the points and inventory so that there is no confusion.  If a Hilton Club Member wants to reserve a Hilton Club resort with Hilton Club points they click the Hilton Club ICON and log in as a Hilton Club Member and go to the Hilton Club section of the website.  If a Hilton Club member wants to use their Hilton Club points for an HGVC Club they go through the same sign in process, but clink on the link to the HGVC inventory.  If a Hilton Club Member is also an HGVC Club Member they click the HGVC ICON and log in as a HGVC Club Member and use their HGVC points.



It's actually even simpler than that. It's a single login. On my main page I see who separate points displays - one shows HGVC points (current and next couple of years) and the By Hilton Club points (same info).

When I go to book, what happens is:

If a By Hilton Club booking and outside the 44 days, the site automatically shows me how many Club points I have available. If it's more than I have, it would borrow Club points from next year.

If a regular HGVC booking, it will show me the sum of both points as available (since I can use Club or regular for this). If I book, and I have enough regular points in the current year, it will just take those, as expected. Similarly, if I don't have enough, and also don't have any Club points in the current year, it will properly borrow regular points from next year.

The part currently not working (that they know about and are working on) is:

If I don't have enough regular points for a regular HGVC reservation, but I *do* have some Club points left, it will (inappropriately) use those rather than realizing that these are different and borrowing regular points from next year instead. This is the thing reported above that currently takes manual intervention.

The rest of the above works as expected. There are separate reports that less-than-44-day reservations for fewer than 3 nights (which are allowed) don't seem to work on the site.

But I don't have to pick which points to use. Except in the one case noted above, the system correctly figures it out.

Cheers.


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## Sandy VDH (Aug 10, 2018)

They have had a similar problem with Wyndham for years for booking what is essentially HOME reservations.  You had to pick the right points to make the home reservations, but some times those points accidentally got used to make another reservation. You then had to call and do a points shuffle to make points get back to the right buckets to make reservations that allowed the rules to be apply correctly.

In the new system they just released they finally resolved the problem by adding a points counter, for which all specific HOME resorts reservations are made with.  No it doesn't matter if you use the right points, but you can only book up to the MAX points you have allocated for a particular resort in reservations.  For example, every reservation point you make at say W57 gets added to the counter, and when you reach your max for w57, you can no longer make W57 reservation.  So it tracks the points used and the max points allowed per location, but it no longer cares which actual points you use to make the reservation.  Someone needs to add this to the HGVC system to remove this issue.


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## brp (Aug 10, 2018)

Sandy VDH said:


> TSo it tracks the points used and the max points allowed per location, but it no longer cares which actual points you use to make the reservation.  Someone needs to add this to the HGVC system to remove this issue.



Yeah, it will use "wrong" points if you have them and not any more "right" points in the current year. Until then the counters work as you said, and very well.

But, as I noted above, they know about this shortcoming and are working on it.

Cheers.


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## CalGalTraveler (Aug 10, 2018)

Just so I dont forget, I keep a dummy reservation  to prevent the points from being taken. Not ideal because that is a booking that someone could use. Would rather they would fix.


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## Denise L (Aug 10, 2018)

CalGalTraveler said:


> Just so I dont forget, I keep a dummy reservation  to prevent the points from being taken. Not ideal because that is a booking that someone could use. Would rather they would fix.



So you keep a dummy reservation for your annual allotment of W57 points?


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## brp (Aug 10, 2018)

CalGalTraveler said:


> Just so I dont forget, I keep a dummy reservation  to prevent the points from being taken. Not ideal because that is a booking that someone could use. Would rather they would fix.



Why wouldn't you make a dummy reservation (or several if the right number of consecutive days were not available) just prior to your other booking, and then cancel after the other booking? Is there a value to keeping it around just in case?

Cheers.


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## TheCryptkeeper (Aug 10, 2018)

I'd worry about forgetting to cancel the reservation.  My mind isn't what it used to be or perhaps it never was what it thought it was.


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## brp (Aug 10, 2018)

brp said:


> Well, some positive news on this (and I've found them to be quite responsive once they say they're going to do something). In response to my email to them:



To follow up on this, I got a further reply that has an actual contact name (someone I've corresponded with previously:



			
				HGVC said:
			
		

> Hello,
> 
> 
> I am sorry to hear that any members experienced difficulty with getting their points corrected.  To be honest, the transition to the separate of BHC and HGV points has been challenging for everyone involved, including our counselors.  If you ever need points adjusted due to this system inefficiency, please email us.  You can even advise to please send to Lori Becerril!  I am happy to help you at any time.  I will also see about sending some information to our Club Counselors to help them when they receive calls such as this.  Again, your patience is very appreciated.
> ...



And the email to use is the standard input@hgvc.com. Just mention Lori's name for routing. She very clearly gets it.


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## CalGalTraveler (Aug 10, 2018)

TheCryptkeeper said:


> I'd worry about forgetting to cancel the reservation.  My mind isn't what it used to be or perhaps it never was what it thought it was.



LoL this is exactly why I do it. I put a reminder n my calendar to cancel in time. 

Currently I have a res for next spring to watch Hamilton. Not sure if friends will join so I have a res for studio premiere and 1 bedroom. One is a dummy that will be cancelled when I know if friends can join or not. I know that if I need the points for something else, I can cancel one of the res. With AI there are no res fees


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## TheCryptkeeper (Aug 11, 2018)

CalGalTraveler said:


> LoL this is exactly why I do it. I put a reminder n my calendar to cancel in time.
> 
> Currently I have a res for next spring to watch Hamilton. Not sure if friends will join so I have a res for studio premiere and 1 bedroom. One is a dummy that will be cancelled when I know if friends can join or not. I know that if I need the points for something else, I can cancel one of the res. With AI there are no res fees



Wow, I think I have Hamilton envy.  I haven't seen it yet.  We usually get the discount tickets through TDF.org for shows, but Hamilton isn't one of those shows and I don't think it ever will be. 

We have a reservation at W57 in December (love NYC during the holidays).  We're taking the train from Florida, a 25-hour trip. We took the bait this year and we're going to one of Hilton's notorious updates.  They sold us a three night package at W57 (Friday, Saturday and Sunday) for something like $100 or $150 per night for attending.  We added an additional three nights from our Hilton Club points to make it a six night stay.

They're supposed to show us the Residences during the update, at least that's what Helen who works at the front desk at W57 and sold us the package said.  However, we've gone to these before, and whenever the salespeople see that we purchased resale, they abruptly end their sales pitch and escort us out.  For some reason, I get the impression they don't like resale owners.  I suspect we'll get similar treatment this go-around.  

I'm not going to waste their time either.  I know they have to make a living, but they're not making it off us.  After the customary introductions and pleasantries, if the person doesn't already know, I'll tell them we purchased our current ownership resale and have no intention paying developer prices.


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