# Fairmont Franz Klammer Lodge - Telluride



## remo (Mar 10, 2009)

We have been looking into purchasing a 1/10 fractional unit and using it all for 5 consecutive weeks in the winter ski season. FKL salespeople say this is very doable. Does anyone own there and what do you think? 

Thanks for any input.

Remo


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## Vacation Dude (Mar 10, 2009)

This sounds very fishy as 1/10 of 52 weeks is 5 weeks and the ski season is only 16 weeks long with the best 8 weeks being Feb-March

I highly doubt you can cherry pick the best 5 weeks (consecutive) unless you pay MUCH more than 1/10 the price of the unit to fix your weeks.

I would assume that if the price of these units are $1.5 million to $3 million, the standard 1/10 price will be $250,000 - $500,000 minimum with annual dues of $2,500 per week and only allow you 5 weeks spread out 1 week every other month.

The price of a fixed 5 weeks (all ski) will probably be $500,000 or more (with yearly dues of $12,500) as this place usually rents out for $1,000 per night in prime season.

No matter what the sales guy says, get this one in writing and triple check the details.

Please post more details about the size of the unit, price, dues, and weeks, etc.


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## LAX Mom (Mar 10, 2009)

We were there about 2 years ago and did a sales promo. As I recall the resort has sold out and a local realty company handles all the resales. Anyway, the fractional interests were all a combined package (1 winter, 1 summer, 1 spring/fall). They didn't sell anything that allowed for consecutive weeks at FKL.

Were they proposing a trade to get 5 weeks together, or you would own 5 winter weeks?

Ask a lot of questions and make sure you get it in writing!


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## remo (Mar 10, 2009)

A 1/10 fractional entitles you to 2 weeks winter, 2 weeks summer, and 1 week floating. They say there season really doesn't begin until Presidents week in Feb. We can get a floating week in Jan, make reservations with our 2 winter weeks, and trade with someone our 2 summer weeks for their winter weeks in order to get 5 weeks in a row. Cost for a 1400 sq ft 2 bedroom is about $135,000 and yearly dues $6,700.


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## sullco (Mar 10, 2009)

With all due respect to Franz Klammer, the salesperson is ....well, lying.
Must be very difficult to sell in this economic climate and the expression borrowed from the timeshare world is "pitching heat" to get the sale.

Unless someone is willing to put your consecutive weeks into the contract, like Hyatt Residence Club does, this is baloney.

You "could" accomplish what has been suggested on this board, but it is not guaranteed and you can't count on it happening--ever.


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## LAX Mom (Mar 10, 2009)

Telluride is beautiful in the summer, but those ski weeks are much more valuable. I think it would be extremely difficult to find an owner willing to part with 2 ski weeks. Most owners have likely purchased there to be able to stay during ski season. That's the reason they structured the packages with a combination of weeks, they knew it would be difficult to sell the spring/fall, even summer weeks.

Doesn't your floating week have to be during a certain time period, spring or fall?


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## Vacation Dude (Mar 10, 2009)

remo said:


> A 1/10 fractional entitles you to 2 weeks winter, 2 weeks summer, and 1 week floating. They say there season really doesn't begin until Presidents week in Feb. We can get a floating week in Jan, make reservations with our 2 winter weeks, and trade with someone our 2 summer weeks for their winter weeks in order to get 5 weeks in a row. Cost for a 1400 sq ft 2 bedroom is about $135,000 and yearly dues $6,700.



Keep dreaming....anyone who buys here will want to use it as a ski property and nobody will trade one winter week for two summer weeks and the float week is probably a mud season week.

If there are TEN owners for a 20 week ski season at best (Thanksgiving to Tax day) and more like 16 weeks of real consistent snow, then you would only get 2 weeks from that season at best. Also, there will probably be a rotation or surcharge for weeks 51, 52, 7.

Most ski areas are dead before week 51 and dead after April 1. Thus, the hardest to get weeks are from Christmas until the end of March (only 14 weeks).

Sure summer is nice there, but the prices are dramatically low during that time and there are tons of rentals then.

I have seen many fractionals and I have never seen one that would work as you describe (5 guaranteed prime ski weeks) and if this is true that you can do it for $135,000/$6,700 then I would highly recommend you buy one ASAP.

Most fractionals have some strange rotating schedule where you rotate the weeks and usually don't repeat a week until all owners have had it once. 

Let's say you want the first two weeks in February, how would it be fair to the other 9 owners if they also want those weeks?


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## Vacation Dude (Mar 10, 2009)

Here is some ALARMING info from March 2008.

In a survey released today, Slingerlands, N.Y-based market researcher Reach Advisors finds that many owners of private residence clubs (PRCs) are dissatisfied with the availability of reservations and would not recommend the purchase to friends. The survey, which focused on 300 owners at seven fractional developments in Colorado, found that just 38 percent of respondents were happy with the availability of reservations.

Thirty-six percent of respondents at Telluride’s Fairmont Heritage Place and the Four Seasons Jackson Hotel said they were happy with reservation availability, while less than a third of respondents from One Willow Bridge Road in Vail, the Ritz-Carlton Bachelor Gulch and the St. Regis Residence Club in Aspen were satisfied with the availability to snag a reservation. At the Ritz-Carlton Club in Aspen Highlands just five percent of respondents were pleased with reservation availability. 

Here is the link for the entire article
http://realestate.halogenguides.com...tion-among-many-private-residence-club-owners


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## Vacation Dude (Mar 10, 2009)

remo said:


> Cost for a 1400 sq ft 2 bedroom is about $135,000 and yearly dues $6,700.



This does not seem right as the numbers are too low.

5 weeks for $135,000 + $6,700 is equivalent to:

1 week for $27,000 + $1,340 and that is cheaper than a Marriott timeshare.

Also, 10 x $135,000 = $1,350,000 and that is way too low for this property at this location.

Most fractionals I have seen are in the $250,000 range with annual dues that run about $2,000 per week.


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## Vacation Dude (Mar 10, 2009)

I contacted the resort and here is an e-mail I got.

Hello there,
This is an e mail that I send out outlining our ownership at the Fairmont in Telluride, Colorado.  Do let me know if you have any questions what so ever.  

Here we go:  There are many ways in which to buy here at the Fairmont.  
The most popular ownership interest is our 1/10th.  It is
2 winter weeks
2 summer weeks 
1 float week (that you can use in any season)
and space available (you can have unlimited weeks as long as there is space available)

You make reservations twice a year in this system.  In January you make reservations for summer, in May, *you make reservations for winter.  It is all based on a rotation system that is very fair and equitable* and we can get into that detail if this seems like it could work for you.
The prices are as follows: A 2 bedroom (sleeps 6) ranges from $130,000-$145,000.  

The homeowners association dues which include taxes, utilities, transportation to and from Montrose and Telluride airports, storage, insurance, all maintenance, reserve account etc. is $6790/year.

*Now the only other charges are a nightly fee of $28/night and a cleaning fee when you leave of $175/stay. * We have those charges to keep our dues as low as possible.  If you come a lot, you pay a bit as you go.  If you are not here, you don't have those charges unless you trade or rent a week out.

The three bedroom prices are from $180,000-$200,000.
The dues are $9235/year.  The nightly is $35/night and the cleaning fee is $210/stay.  
Now, some of the ownership interests include a ski and golf membership.  That is a membership into the club here that gives you unlimited skiing and golfing for you and a spouse for only $94/month in dues for a 1/10th and $47/month for a 1/20th.  You also are allowed to dine at Allreds restaurant at the top of the gondola which is open to only members during lunch in the winter.  
Now, we have 1/2 of that membership as well which is a 1/20th.

The 1/20th works this way:
1 winter week
1 summer week
1 float week and in the next year you get 
1 winter week
1 summer week and 
space available
and then it goes back and forth and back and forth.
In your "float" year, you still can have space available during the off-seasons.

Now the prices for the 1/20th's are as follows:
The 2 bedroom range is $85,000-$93,000.
The dues are $3395/year
The nightly is $28/night and the cleaning is $175/stay.

The 3 bedroom range is $100,000-$115,000.  
The dues are $4617/year.  The nightly is $35/night and the cleaning is $210/stay.

Now, there is one other membership type here at the lodge:
It is a *fixed winter week with a rotating summer week*.  You don't make reservations twice a year, you just know what your weeks are each year.  If you like to ski the same time each year, this is the membership for you!  Also, you get the same residence each time and you don't rotate to different residences.
The price range on this ownership varies due to the weeks involved but I will give you an example.  The range of weeks go from $39,000 for an early season ski week to $155,000 for a President’s week 3 bedroom with a view.   Now, each of those fixed winter weeks comes with a rotating summer week (according to a schedule).  You can get a May, June, July, August, September or week in October.  It just rotates every year.  You, also, get up to 12 weeks in the off-season which is called bonus time.
The dues are the same for a 1/20th fixed or float.
*There is also a 1/5th which gives you back to back prime weeks in winter and summer according to a schedule and then you can get up to 6 more weeks if there is space available.  This is a ten week program that sells for $325,000. *
We, also, have a 1/4th in the Penthouse 509.  It’s a thirteen week program in a room with a spectacular view.  The purchase price is $550,000.
The Ski and Golf membership gives you and your spouse unlimited skiing and golfing while you are here on your membership.  Kids golf for free until they are 23 years old.
Now, we are a Fairmont property which means that you can trade two weeks a year to go to Fairmont’s around the world with a 1/10th and 1 week every other year with a 1/20th.  
If you use all your time here and decide to rent a hotel room within the Fairmont portfolio, you get discounts and automatic upgrades upon arrival.  The service is really fantastic in all the properties. (If you get a moment, check out www.fairmont.com) 
Now, one of the greatest things about owning here are the President’s Circle benefits within the Fairmont system.  No matter if you pay $39,000 or $550,000 you are treated like a dignitary when you arrive at all of the Fairmont Hotels. 

Next, the lodge is in fantastic financial shape.  We have 1.6 million dollars in the reserve accounts and we are constantly improving and replacing furniture and appliances etc.  
The lodge is 11 years old and it looks fantastic!!!!
The board is in membership control and is great!
If this works for you, you will be very happy with the lodge.  The staff does a terrific job and our spa staff is the best in town.
Telluride is a magical place.  I hope that this will work as part of your portfolio.  I will look forward to hearing from you!


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## Vacation Dude (Mar 10, 2009)

Thus, to get 4 weeks of consecutive ski weeks, it will cost you about $650,000.

I would NOT rely on a promise of easy trading summer or float weeks for a ski week.

I rate your odds of you getting 5 consecutive ski weeks for $135,000 every year as 0.01%

I knew I smelled something wrong with the original price post.


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## alvin (Mar 12, 2009)

Thanks for all the analysis.  I wonder what the ownership type per unit works out to be?  In other words, how many 1/10 owners, 1/20 owners and 1/5 owners per unit are there? (obviously adding up to 100%)  The actual breakdown would make a big difference in determining the likelihood of being able to use 'space available' or a 'float week' during the ski season.

Telluride only has an 18 week ski season, so at first I couldn't understand how they could even be selling 20 ski weeks per unit.  Then I reread the email they sent to you, and noticed that the 1/5 ownership structure is  allocated only 2 ski weeks as well, you just get them back to back.  So that leaves 16 weeks to split between the 8/10 remaining in the unit (i.e. some combination of additional 2 weeks per 1/5 owner, 2 weeks per 1/10 owner or 1 week per 1/20 owner).

The fewer 1/5 owners and the more 1/20 owners there are in the ultimate mix per unit, the more difficult it's going to be to use that float week during the season, as you have more total owners of the same unit all trying to use their limited ski week(s).  And the fact that owners can try and rent out their unused allocation doesn't help with availability either.

In fact, unless they have sold less than 18 reservable ski weeks (i.e., more than 1 1/5 ownership per unit), i think the odds of getting a float week or a space available reservation during ski season is slim, with maybe a chance during early season (when much of the mountain is likely still closed).


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