# [update] Sheraton Flex upcoming changes



## cubigbird (Jul 3, 2016)

I attended an owners update today and heard some new things about Sheraton Flex that I have not seen discussed on this board.  As usual take this with a grain of salt as it came from sales, but it was presented in writing.  Sorry, I didn't get any pictures.

1) Effective 2017, Sheraton Flex Homeoptions will be able to be used to book Hyatt Residence Club properties now that VSE is part of ILG.  Hyatt TS will not be a part of VSE but accessible with Flex HO.  Westin resorts will not be able to do this.  Only Flex.
2) New resorts will begin conversion or sales in 2017 in addition to the ongoing Nanea project.  Most notable: St. Regis Residence Club in Aspen, CO,  Westin Cabo.  I didn't know St. Regis was part of this.  
3) Sheraton Flex 67,100 and 81,000 points were being sold for approx $24,000 and $28,000 respectively.
4)Apparently 3-5 Star Elite is being "grandfathered" in and supposedly the 5 Star Elite requirement increased at some point in the past.  It looks like Elite Sttaus will stay however could be subject to a higher requirement. 
5)You will be able to deposit less than a week (of Flex Options) in II.  Meaning you can exchange in increments of less than a week / a modification of the II "short stay exchange" program.


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## VacationForever (Jul 3, 2016)

Great update.  Thank you!  The Hyatt piece is huge. Do you know if it is at 6 months and can they put in a request the way Hyatt owners do currently?  Do you know if they will take an existing week, one that they are interested in, and apply 80% to the purchase price of Flex? Or if they still retro?


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## cubigbird (Jul 3, 2016)

They ARE still allowing retros and the amount of new spening is still min $20k. They didn't give any indication that will go away.  They REALLY REALLY wanted my SVR fixed July 4th week and there was no way I was going to trade that into Flex.  Yes they will take trade in value and apply to Flex.  

I did not find any additional details about Flex getting access to Hyatt or request timeframe, only that it will be eventually capable.


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## The Haileys (Jul 3, 2016)

When we were there in May, they really, really, really wanted us to convert our existing EOY Flex with 81K SOs, and EOY WKORV 81K SO to 162K SO Flex - doubling our SOs, giving us full credit for both ownerships, costing "only" 18K to do so. They told us that Flex ownership would allow trading in II just like we trade SOs in SVN/VSE, instead of the current deposit system, where the trading value of the properties varies so widely. Being cynical, we figured that would devalue Maui rather than elevate the Flex properties.

They also were really pushing the Elite status. They said that the reservation tiering would be getting more stratified, almost to the point where there will be very few properties available for non-Elites to reserve outside of their home resort due to the influx of Hyatt owners being able to trade for VSE properties. They also mentioned that the required amount of ownership to qualify for Elite status would likely be increasing - they didn't know when or by how much. This was literally hours before the merger went final. 

We just picked up 67.1K SOs at SVV Bella for the cost of closing ... I wonder if they'd still be interested in converting us? I'd kinda like to go with the lower MFs and get out of the Charlie Foxtrot going down in Maui.


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## JudyS (Jul 3, 2016)

I would love to get access to the Hyatt properties. But buying Sheraton Flex, even resale, will have to wait until my finances improve.

Anyone have an idea what the "conversion rate" would be between FlexOptions and Hyatt Points?


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## Cindybreeland (Jul 3, 2016)

*All true*



cubigbird said:


> I attended an owners update today and heard some new things about Sheraton Flex that I have not seen discussed on this board.  As usual take this with a grain of salt as it came from sales, but it was presented in writing.  Sorry, I didn't get any pictures.
> 
> 1) Effective 2017, Sheraton Flex Homeoptions will be able to be used to book Hyatt Residence Club properties now that VSE is part of ILG.  Hyatt TS will not be a part of VSE but accessible with Flex HO.  Westin resorts will not be able to do this.  Only Flex.
> 2) New resorts will begin conversion or sales in 2017 in addition to the ongoing Nanea project.  Most notable: St. Regis Residence Club in Aspen, CO,  Westin Cabo.  I didn't know St. Regis was part of this.
> ...


We bought the flex program three days ago and they told us the same thing .
We're on a every two year program and using their American Express to build our points.


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## jabberwocky (Jul 3, 2016)

JudyS said:


> I would love to get access to the Hyatt properties. But buying Sheraton Flex, even resale, will have to wait until my finances improve.



I wonder if a Flex resale would be able to trade into the Hyatt properties?  From the sound of it the Hyatt properties would not be accessible via SO (given non-access of Westin owners), so is there another points system coming in here with Flex HO that isn't affected by the mandatory/voluntary resale issue?  That would be interesting and potentially help give some resale value to the Flex program.

Does anyone know if a Flex contract can be requalified?

Regardless, I won't be converting to Flex.  They remind me too much of the subprime loan CDO tranches being sold last decade.  Putting a bunch of poor quality properties in a different wrapper doesn't make it AAA.


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## Ken555 (Jul 3, 2016)

Cindybreeland said:


> We bought the flex program three days ago and they told us the same thing .
> 
> We're on a every two year program and using their American Express to build our points.





Two completely different point programs...


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## Helios (Jul 3, 2016)

Hyatt will/would be a nice addition for Sheraton Flex.

I had heard about the Elite increase (from Direct sales).  I also heard that there was going to be a new level...


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## GregT (Jul 3, 2016)

All,

This would be interesting to see, but I do not believe it will be as good as it appears.  I have a similar exchange possibility between my Worldmark account and its sister program, Wyndham.  But I can only book Wyndham properties 9 months out from check-in (and there is a $99 exchange fee), and Wyndham owners can start booking 10 months out -- so the best properties are gone before my window opens.

This would be similar to Hyatt owners being able to book Starwood properties 7 months before check-in -- sounds good, but we all know that the best stuff is booked at release right at 8 months before check-in.  

We will see how it finally looks, but I don't think it will be that beneficial.

Best,

Greg


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## lizap (Jul 3, 2016)

I agree with you Greg.  If this turns out to be true, unless existing Hyatt owners are allowed to book Flex, this is not going to be good for us, as there will be more people competing for Hyatt resorts.  Vistana, like Worldmark, should give existing Hyatt owners extra time to book other Hyatt resorts.




GregT said:


> All,
> 
> This would be interesting to see, but I do not believe it will be as good as it appears.  I have a similar exchange possibility between my Worldmark account and its sister program, Wyndham.  But I can only book Wyndham properties 9 months out from check-in (and there is a $99 exchange fee), and Wyndham owners can start booking 10 months out -- so the best properties are gone before my window opens.
> 
> ...


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## heathpack (Jul 3, 2016)

GregT said:


> All,
> 
> This would be interesting to see, but I do not believe it will be as good as it appears.  I have a similar exchange possibility between my Worldmark account and its sister program, Wyndham.  But I can only book Wyndham properties 9 months out from check-in (and there is a $99 exchange fee), and Wyndham owners can start booking 10 months out -- so the best properties are gone before my window opens.
> 
> ...



I would assume as well that you'll need Hyatt owners buying in to whatever the new points system is as well.  We all own deeded weeks and Hyatt just can't give them to Starwood owners to use.  And if Hyatt owners are allowed in to the Starwood system, there will be more competition for the same Starwood properties as well.


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## rickandcindy23 (Jul 3, 2016)

I just attended a presentation for Hyatt at Pinon Pointe 3 days ago, and nothing at all was mentioned about a reciprocal arrangement.  I am anxious to hear from Hyatt owners about this.


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## YYJMSP (Jul 4, 2016)

moto x said:


> I had heard about the Elite increase (from Direct sales).  I also heard that there was going to be a new level...



That would be the 10-Star-Elite level, where both the husband and wife are each 5-Star-Elites.  Probably comes with some new luggage tags...

Buy now!  Limited supply!  There're 5 sales going on in the next rooms who each just bought all their units starting from nothing, so you better buy too!  Won't be available tomorrow!  Now, now, now!


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## YYJMSP (Jul 4, 2016)

JudyS said:


> Anyone have an idea what the "conversion rate" would be between FlexOptions and Hyatt Points?



I'm still thinking there will be some new universal points currency called IntervalOptions or something like that to let you trade between the systems owned by II.


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## Denise P (Jul 4, 2016)

I attended an owner update at SVV two weeks ago. The desk was smothered in paper so it was very difficult to follow all of the scenarios but I left with the definite impression that Interval style points applies to Exchanges with Marriott (Hyatt not mentioned back then). The rep was keen to stress that the original deeded contracts would have a separate reservation pool to the Flex contracts so presumably Hyatt can only intrude on the Flex pool leaving the old SVN pool in contact for those of us that don't convert.


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## Cindybreeland (Jul 4, 2016)

*Flex Sheraton*









We received this book (interval)when we bought into the flex program, basically you pay a 99.00 fee to access the resorts which opens up your choices if where to go 
I can't figure out how to get the picture in the post


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## Helios (Jul 4, 2016)

YYJMSP said:


> That would be the 10-Star-Elite level, where both the husband and wife are each 5-Star-Elites.  Probably comes with some new luggage tags...
> 
> Buy now!  Limited supply!  There're 5 sales going on in the next rooms who each just bought all their units starting from nothing, so you better buy too!  Won't be available tomorrow!  Now, now, now!



I hear you about the 10* for husband and wife.  

But, the way it was presented to me did not involve any sales.  It was a simple perks discussion started from a courtesy call from my direct sales rep.  I have about 250k options that are in the system (in excess of 5* requirements) which would help me get to this new level plus a couple other mandatory properties that are not retroed.  I actually trust this direct sales rep who has never tried to sell anything I have not asked to buy/quote.  

Of course, sales people at the resorts are a different story.


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## Helios (Jul 4, 2016)

If this actually happens, it seems unfair that Hyatt can trade into Vistana but Vistana's non-Flex cannot trade into Hyatt.

There will continue to be II exchanges into Hyatt but those could get harder to get with this new program.


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## cubigbird (Jul 4, 2016)

Denise P said:


> I attended an owner update at SVV two weeks ago. The desk was smothered in paper so it was very difficult to follow all of the scenarios but I left with the definite impression that Interval style points applies to Exchanges with Marriott (Hyatt not mentioned back then). The rep was keen to stress that the original deeded contracts would have a separate reservation pool to the Flex contracts so presumably Hyatt can only intrude on the Flex pool leaving the old SVN pool in contact for those of us that don't convert.



This was my impression as well, that this will be accessible from the Flex only and not a traditional owned week and you'd have to buy into the Flex if you want that Hyatt access.  Original deed contracts are separate inventory and have to be because that week is guaranteed whereas in the Flex its only available based on availability with underlying weeks in the pool.  This is where I still have problems with Flex, owning something and no guarantee of a week.  My SVR is fixed and I plan to keep it that way.  I own where and when I want to go.


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## Helios (Jul 4, 2016)

cubigbird said:


> 2) New resorts will begin conversion or sales in 2017 in addition to the ongoing Nanea project.  Most notable: St. Regis Residence Club in Aspen, CO,  Westin Cabo.  I didn't know St. Regis was part of this.



The St Regis part sounds like a sales lie, but that would be pretty nice if it is true.  I imagine the number of SOs would make it prohibitive for some.


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## cubigbird (Jul 4, 2016)

moto x said:


> The St Regis part sounds like a sales lie, but that would be pretty nice if it is true.  I imagine the number of SOs would make it prohibitive for some.



Surprisingly that was not verbally told to me rather shown to me in writing and included others that I can not remember other than Cabo, PV, Nanea etc. I was surprised too but if it is indeed true I think having a St Regis option would be nice.  This particular resort is in Aspen, CO and is a beautiful resort with great service.


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## Cindybreeland (Jul 4, 2016)

*Upload of interval book*

http://s962.photobucket.com/user/Cindy_Breeland/library/


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## Helios (Jul 4, 2016)

cubigbird said:


> Surprisingly that was not verbally told to me rather shown to me in writing and included others that I can not remember other than Cabo, PV, Nanea etc. I was surprised too but if it is indeed true I think having a St Regis option would be nice.  This particular resort is in Aspen, CO and is a beautiful resort with great service.



My guess, if this actually happens, is that it would be virtually impossible to book a sky week.  I would imagine Fall weeks will be likely.  Hopefully summer weeks can be booked occasionally.

Hopefully, this would start adding other St Regis to the program.  

Cautiously optimistic...


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## Helios (Jul 4, 2016)

Has there been any mention about when the conversions will be open for reservations?  I am interested in PVR and Cabo.


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## youppi (Jul 4, 2016)

Probably that only unsold Hyatt inventory that will be available to the Flex members like DRI do with all its acquisition. That could explain why Hyatt is so aggressive with ROFR.


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## lizap (Jul 4, 2016)

Exchanges into Hyatts via II are few and far between..




moto x said:


> If this actually happens, it seems unfair that Hyatt can trade into Vistana but Vistana's non-Flex cannot trade into Hyatt.
> 
> There will continue to be II exchanges into Hyatt but those could get harder to get with this new program.


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## lizap (Jul 4, 2016)

Hyatt in the last several years has not been that aggressive with ROFR.  Perhaps this will change with II, but too early to tell..



youppi said:


> Probably that only unsold Hyatt inventory that will be available to the Flex members like DRI do with all its acquisition. That could explain why Hyatt is so aggressive with ROFR.


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## youppi (Jul 4, 2016)

lizap said:


> Hyatt in the last several years has not been that aggressive with ROFR.  Perhaps this will change with II, but too early to tell..



I'm not an Hyatt expert so I don't know but a couple days ago somebody said that in this post
http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1902436&postcount=4


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## klpca (Jul 4, 2016)

lizap said:


> Exchanges into Hyatts via II are few and far between..



I see Hyatt shoulder season units fairly regularly. High seasons rarely and only during flex.


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## YYJMSP (Jul 4, 2016)

moto x said:


> I hear you about the 10* for husband and wife.
> 
> 
> 
> ...





Any mention of details on benefits and requirements?



We're sitting on an Explorer we havent pulled the trigger on yet, so that planned purchase/retro could put us around 920K.


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## Helios (Jul 4, 2016)

YYJMSP said:


> Any mention of details on benefits and requirements?
> 
> 
> 
> We're sitting on an Explorer we havent pulled the trigger on yet, so that planned purchase/retro could put us around 920K.



I did not get details.  At the time it was mentioned SVN was looking into this.  The requirements/perks were not set.  Keep in mind this is dated info going back to the announcement of the Starwood/Marriott sale.

Are you really thinking about buying more with the uncertainty of what II will do with the program?


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## Helios (Jul 4, 2016)

lizap said:


> Exchanges into Hyatts via II are few and far between..



Perhaps, but I have seen them around.  I imagine that OGS can pull them if sometimes units make it to search and reserve stage.


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## YYJMSP (Jul 4, 2016)

moto x said:


> Are you really thinking about buying more with the uncertainty of what II will do with the program?



We can use another 2 weeks worth of points to cover that last little bit of holiday time each year, or getting larger units than we normally have given our daughter is now a teenager (that sofa-bed for her and shared bathroom scenario isn't quite working anymore, so we're going to have to look at 2BR units for ourselves vs the larger 1BR units).

We are holding off until Christmas or next Spring Break, by which time hopefully a little bit of shaking out has happened at the VSE and SPG/MAR sides so we can have some indication of where things are going.  We technically have until next summer to use or exercise the Explorer.

Worst case, I take the 100K SPG points and don't buy anything.  Not a wonderful deal, but acceptable, as I can use them next summer for a Europe trip anyways.

Otherwise, add 2 more units (a developer EOY or maybe a FLEX, and a 148K retro) to the pile and pick up around 300K SPG points, which would cover a good portion of the Europe trip.


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## bizaro86 (Jul 4, 2016)

I wouldn't count on multiple St Regis locations getting added to anything, as Vistana does not have the right to develop using the st regis name. They could put units at the existing gractionals they manage into the flex trust, which might benefit them if they get a few back through foreclosure or something.

Vistana has the SR Aspen, SR New York, and Phoenician residence clubs. I wouldn't count on seeing NYC inventory, and the Phoenician only has 6 units, so Aspen would be the most likely.

If they wanted to offer Hyatt units without reciprocity, they could put the ton of Hyatt inventory they have into the Flex trust, and then let flex owners book using those deeds.


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## DeniseM (Jul 4, 2016)

I have noticed that the info. that comes out of the sales presentation for FlexOptions seems even more exaggerated than usual, so unless you get it in writing - I would be skeptical about these verbal claims.


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## Ken555 (Jul 4, 2016)

DeniseM said:


> I have noticed that the info. that comes out of the sales presentation for FlexOptions seems even more exaggerated than usual, so unless you get it in writing - I would be skeptical about these verbal claims.





^this

I doubt we'll know the fallout from the integration with II for a few years.


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## vistana101 (Jul 4, 2016)

Would be very interesting to see the reciprocity with Hyatt...but I have my doubts!


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## Helios (Jul 4, 2016)

DeniseM said:


> I have noticed that the info. that comes out of the sales presentation for FlexOptions seems even more exaggerated than usual, so unless you get it in writing - I would be skeptical about these verbal claims.



I agree...The OP mentioned the info posted was in writing.


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## Helios (Jul 4, 2016)

bizaro86 said:


> I wouldn't count on multiple St Regis locations getting added to anything, as Vistana does not have the right to develop using the st regis name. They could put units at the existing gractionals they manage into the flex trust, which might benefit them if they get a few back through foreclosure or something.
> 
> Vistana has the SR Aspen, SR New York, and Phoenician residence clubs. I wouldn't count on seeing NYC inventory, and the Phoenician only has 6 units, so Aspen would be the most likely.
> 
> If they wanted to offer Hyatt units without reciprocity, they could put the ton of Hyatt inventory they have into the Flex trust, and then let flex owners book using those deeds.



I wouldn't either.  Best case scenario is very slim availability at very high SOs values.  Likely, it will be close to impossible.  Either way, I like having the possibility of booking St Regis Aspen.  If this happen it would only be a plus in my book instead of the many times we loose perks...


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## DeniseM (Jul 4, 2016)

cubigbird said:


> I attended an owners update today and heard some new things about Sheraton Flex that I have not seen discussed on this board.  As usual take this with a grain of salt as it came from sales, but it was presented in writing.  Sorry, I didn't get any pictures.
> 
> 1) Effective 2017, Sheraton Flex Homeoptions will be able to be used to book Hyatt Residence Club properties now that VSE is part of ILG.  Hyatt TS will not be a part of VSE but accessible with Flex HO.  Westin resorts will not be able to do this.  Only Flex.
> 2) New resorts will begin conversion or sales in 2017 in addition to the ongoing Nanea project.  Most notable: St. Regis Residence Club in Aspen, CO,  Westin Cabo.  I didn't know St. Regis was part of this.
> ...



Which of these items were shown to you in a *published VSE document* and which were shown to you in a sales person's hand written notes, or told to you verbally?


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## Helios (Jul 4, 2016)

DeniseM said:


> Which of these items were shown to you in a *published VSE document* and which were shown to you in a sales person's hand written notes, or told to you verbally?



Good point.  But, that's just going to kill all the fun in the thread...


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## DeniseM (Jul 4, 2016)

moto x said:


> Good point.  But, that's just going to kill all the fun in the thread...



Maybe, but I'd hate for someone to buy FlexOptions based on something that may or may not be correct info. from a sales person.


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## cubigbird (Jul 4, 2016)

DeniseM said:


> Which of these items were shown to you in a *published VSE document* and which were shown to you in a sales person's hand written notes, or told to you verbally?



It wasn't verbal nor a sales handwritten note.  It was a VSE presentation at SVR with all the usual affiliation disclosures at the bottom.  It did include SR New York and The Phoenician in Scottsdale.  I agree, take it with a grain of salt and of course anything can be made up and modified but it was the first place I have seen this not hearing it verbally or scratched down.  It was a VSE presentation.


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## DeniseM (Jul 4, 2016)

Thanks for clarifying - so all of the (5) items that you listed were in the Powerpoint?


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## cubigbird (Jul 4, 2016)

DeniseM said:


> Thanks for clarifying - so all of the (5) items that you listed were in the Powerpoint?



Denise, yes they were, all but the current pricing (item # 3).  I just remembered their offers so I put that down.


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## DeniseM (Jul 4, 2016)

cubigbird said:


> Denise, yes they were, all but the current pricing (item # 3).  I just remembered their offers so I put that down.



Thank you for clarifying - very helpful.


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## Helios (Jul 4, 2016)

cubigbird said:


> Denise, yes they were, all but the current pricing (item # 3).  I just remembered their offers so I put that down.



Thanks for clarifying and expanding with NY and Phoexix.


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## Helios (Jul 4, 2016)

DeniseM said:


> Thank you for clarifying - very helpful.



Well, I guess the fun continues after all and it got even better with not 1 but 3 St Regis properties.

Who remembers the details about the Westin Aruba plans?  I am pretty sure I saw that in writing at a presentation.  But I don't remember if it was a sales person printout or if it was a Starwood generated document.


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## bizaro86 (Jul 4, 2016)

moto x said:


> Well, I guess the fun continues after all and it got even better with not 1 but 3 St Regis properties.
> 
> Who remembers the details about the Westin Aruba plans?  I am pretty sure I saw that in writing at a presentation.  But I don't remember if it was a sales person printout or if it was a Starwood generated document.



This could just be an enterprising salesperson with the ILG investor presentation. It talks about those three, because Vustana manages them. The litmus test would be if you could take it with you, imo.


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## vistana101 (Jul 5, 2016)

I have also had sales persons create their own documents (not official VSE docs/presentations), so it's possible that they created it themselves and had wrong/misleading information or images.


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## lizap (Jul 5, 2016)

Depends on the resort.  Some of the Hyatts you will probably never see in II, such as Carmel, Beaver Creek, Key West..




klpca said:


> I see Hyatt shoulder season units fairly regularly. High seasons rarely and only during flex.


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## klpca (Jul 5, 2016)

lizap said:


> Depends on the resort.  Some of the Hyatts you will probably never see in II, such as Carmel, Beaver Creek, Key West..



Of those three I see Key West the most, Carmel rarely (I can definitely count the number of times on one hand), and I don't believe I've ever seen Beaver. The ones I see fairly regularly are Sedona and Incline Village. What I am seeing are the leftovers though.


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## lizap (Jul 5, 2016)

Key West has 3 Hyatts.  I would imagine if they show up it would be during hurricane season.. not during the winter peak season.



klpca said:


> Of those three I see Key West the most, Carmel rarely (I can definitely count the number of times on one hand), and I don't believe I've ever seen Beaver. The ones I see fairly regularly are Sedona and Incline Village. What I am seeing are the leftovers though.


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## SandyPGravel (Jul 5, 2016)

moto x said:


> Well, I guess the fun continues after all and it got even better with not 1 but 3 St Regis properties.
> 
> Who remembers the details about the Westin Aruba plans?  I am pretty sure I saw that in writing at a presentation.  But I don't remember if it was a sales person printout or if it was a Starwood generated document.



Not only do I remember the Aruba plans, I have the hardcopy brochure that came in my three ring binder!! :hysterical:


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## Helios (Jul 5, 2016)

SandyPGravel said:


> Not only do I remember the Aruba plans, I have the hardcopy brochure that came in my three ring binder!! :hysterical:



So much for validating a statement via an official printout...

I thought Starwood kept the land.  So, may be it will rise from the ashes at some point.


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## YYJMSP (Jul 5, 2016)

moto x said:


> So much for validating a statement via an official printout...
> 
> 
> 
> ...





I thought they sold the land with the Westin hotel to Riu?


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## Helios (Jul 5, 2016)

YYJMSP said:


> I thought they sold the land with the Westin hotel to Riu?



You may be right, I didn't follow this closely.


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## rickspenceresq1 (Jul 7, 2016)

I called vistana and there is no flex program where you can reserve with hyatt

Sent from my SM-N920P using Tapatalk


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## DeniseM (Jul 7, 2016)

rickspenceresq1 said:


> I called vistana and there is no flex program where you can reserve with hyatt
> 
> Sent from my SM-N920P using Tapatalk



You are probably right, but if this is something new that is coming, I would not expect entry level people who answer the phone in Owner Services to know.  

They make a ton of errors on the current stuff, much less knowing about anything new.


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## DavidnRobin (Jul 7, 2016)

DeniseM said:


> You are probably right, but if this is something new that is coming, I would not expect entry level people who answer the phone in Owner Services to know.
> 
> They make a ton of errors on the current stuff, much less knowing about anything new.



or... the info on using Flex Options to reserve Hyatt is incorrect.
(what?! that never happens here...)


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## DeniseM (Jul 7, 2016)

DavidnRobin said:


> or... the info on using Flex Options to reserve Hyatt is incorrect.
> (what?! that never happens here...)



I agree - I don't believe the Hyatt thing, but confirming with Owner Services is not an effective way to verify anything.


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## DavidnRobin (Jul 7, 2016)

DeniseM said:


> Yes, which is why I started my statement with:  *"You are probably right"*
> 
> I don't believe the Hyatt thing, but confirming with Owner Services is not an effective way to verify anything.



I agree, but I did not interpret "you are probably right' as possibly being related to - 'this may be total Sales BS to get OP to buy Flex', regardless if it was 'in writing' or not  - that may be more direct.  

and, if true, then perhaps waiting for an official announcement from VSE before calling Owner Services to inquire about using FlexOptions to exchange into Hyatt based on a TUG post which was based on a sales pitch.

but, maybe that is just me... you are much kinder


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## DeniseM (Jul 7, 2016)

Oops - sorry, I changed my post while you were posting, to make it clearer.

But it is so hard to say - is this something that is coming down the road, or is it creative license by a sales person - only time will tell.


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## DavidnRobin (Jul 7, 2016)

DeniseM said:


> Oops - sorry, I changed my post while you were posting, to make it clearer.
> 
> But it is so hard to say - is this something that is coming down the road, or is it creative license by a sales person - only time will tell.



That happens to me - I often modify posting to better optimize responses once i have re-read my post.

It does make some sense - this way FlexOptions could become more valuable to sell by VSE, because otherwise - it is a very poor TS 'investment'.  If they do more forward with FO exchanges into Hyatt, then they will have to allow for reciprocation (Hyatt into FO VSE resorts) in order to maintain balance. IMO

In reality - why not also include SOs as well to exchange into Hyatt? I would think that there would be less potential for SO exchanges versus FO exchanges based on their value, but still a good 'selling point'.


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## DeniseM (Jul 7, 2016)

Plus - it seems like a slap in the face to current Elite Owners who have invested big bucks in VSE, if they exclude them from exchanging into Hyatt.

Although I recently talked to an Elite Owner who traded his Maui timeshares for the Flexoptions program lately - not WKORV-NN, but actually the Florida program.  OUCH!


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## YYJMSP (Jul 7, 2016)

DeniseM said:


> Plus - it seems like a slap in the face to current Elite Owners who have invested big bucks in VSE, if they exclude them from exchanging into Hyatt.
> 
> Although I recently talked to an Elite Owner who traded his Maui timeshares for the Flexoptions program lately - not WKORV-NN, but actually the Florida program.  OUCH!





The last few updates we've been to have been strongly geared towards pushing us to swap our units for Flex.


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## Helios (Jul 7, 2016)

YYJMSP said:


> The last few updates we've been to have been strongly geared towards pushing us to swap our units for Flex.



Same here.  In my case they would take FL and SC units to convert to Flex.  So, I repurchase the same units to not have a deed and have access to Flex which *may* give me access to Steamboat in the winter.  Access to Hyatt is only a minor improvement, YMMV.


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## Helios (Jul 7, 2016)

DeniseM said:


> Plus - it seems like a slap in the face to current Elite Owners who have invested big bucks in VSE, if they exclude them from exchanging into Hyatt.



I would not be happy......Even if I see this as a minor improvement.


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## rickspenceresq1 (Jul 8, 2016)

The two programs are not related in anyway other than being under the same parent organization.  It would be extremely difficult legally to allow owners to reserve in an unrelated program by non owners.  The Hyatt members have paid good money to reserve Hyatt units.  Legally you cannot have a non Hyatt member reserve a Hyatt unit and possibly take a unit away from a Hyatt member and visa versa.

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## JudyS (Jul 8, 2016)

rickspenceresq1 said:


> The two programs are not related in anyway other than being under the same parent organization.  It would be extremely difficult legally to allow owners to reserve in an unrelated program by non owners.  The Hyatt members have paid good money to reserve Hyatt units.  Legally you cannot have a non Hyatt member reserve a Hyatt unit and possibly take a unit away from a Hyatt member and visa versa.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N920P using Tapatalk


This is a good point, although I'd guess Interval has control of the Hyatt board, and could change the bylaws to implement this if they wanted to. And all of the VSE "Options" programs are pretty much at the discretion of VSE, so implementation on the VSE side would be easy.

Also, Interval could certainly set up a "preference" period for FlexOptions that gives special access to Hyatt deposit.

I'm not saying any of these things *will* happen, just that they *could*.


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## bdh (Jul 9, 2016)

JudyS said:


> This is a good point, although I'd guess Interval has control of the Hyatt board, and could change the bylaws to implement this if they wanted to. And all of the VSE "Options" programs are pretty much at the discretion of VSE, so implementation on the VSE side would be easy.
> 
> Also, Interval could certainly set up a "preference" period for FlexOptions that gives special access to Hyatt deposit.
> 
> I'm not saying any of these things *will* happen, just that they *could*.



1. Interval does not own Hyatt, ILG owns the HRC brand.  
2. With the majority of Hyatt properties being mature/sold out, the developer no longer controls the various individual property HOA boards.  
3. The linchpin in the HRC system is each owner's guaranteed use of their specific deeded week and unit until 6 months prior to the owned week (referred to as HRPP in HRC language) - impossible to break that feature as that is a deeded property ownership right. 

Based on #1 and #2, don't expect a change in the bylaws.
Based on #3, bylaws/rules can not take away deeded property ownership of HRPP.

What could change is what happens with a week once the deeded owner gives up their HRPP right via an exchange/deposit request or the automatic passage of the week from HRPP to CUP when they fail to exercise their HRPP right by 6 months prior to the deeded week.


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## bizaro86 (Jul 9, 2016)

rickspenceresq1 said:


> The two programs are not related in anyway other than being under the same parent organization.  It would be extremely difficult legally to allow owners to reserve in an unrelated program by non owners.  The Hyatt members have paid good money to reserve Hyatt units.  Legally you cannot have a non Hyatt member reserve a Hyatt unit and possibly take a unit away from a Hyatt member and visa versa.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N920P using Tapatalk



There is absolutely no legal reason they couldn't put a bunch of Hyatt deeds into the flex trust. The flex trust would then have all the rights of owning those deeds.

That wouldn't take anything away from other Hyatt owners, the rights would just be held by flex owners instead of other Hyatt owners. There have been rofr reports, and lots of unsold inventory,  so they could easily do this and not even make it reciprocal if they wanted to.

That would just piss off existing Hyatt owners, so I'm sure VSE and Hyatt owners will all get the chance to upgrade to whatever the new thing is.


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## dioxide45 (Jul 9, 2016)

bizaro86 said:


> There is absolutely no legal reason they couldn't put a bunch of Hyatt deeds into the flex trust. The flex trust would then have all the rights of owning those deeds.
> 
> That wouldn't take anything away from other Hyatt owners, the rights would just be held by flex owners instead of other Hyatt owners. There have been rofr reports, and lots of unsold inventory,  so they could easily do this and not even make it reciprocal if they wanted to.
> 
> That would just piss off existing Hyatt owners, so I'm sure VSE and Hyatt owners will all get the chance to upgrade to whatever the new thing is.



Exactly. There is a difference between being able to book at 12 months and booking them with HO that work at 8 months. No reason at all they can't convey some of the Hyatt properties to the Sheraton Flex Trust. Then flex owners can book in to Hyatt at 12 months.

I just really don't see this happening. Aren't all the properties that are in the Sheraton flex a major step below most of the Hyatt properties? Are Hyatt owners going to want to be able to book in to Sheraton properties? Maybe, but it would be a small percentage if you ask me. There would be lots of Sheraton people clamoring to book in to Hyatt though.


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## bizaro86 (Jul 9, 2016)

dioxide45 said:


> Exactly. There is a difference between being able to book at 12 months and booking them with HO that work at 8 months. No reason at all they can't convey some of the Hyatt properties to the Sheraton Flex Trust. Then flex owners can book in to Hyatt at 12 months.
> 
> I just really don't see this happening. Aren't all the properties that are in the Sheraton flex a major step below most of the Hyatt properties? Are Hyatt owners going to want to be able to book in to Sheraton properties? Maybe, but it would be a small percentage if you ask me. There would be lots of Sheraton people clamoring to book in to Hyatt though.



If you put hyatt deeds in flex, it doesn't matter whether Hyatt owners want Sheraton or not. Flex owners would be booking their owned weeks, not trading Sheraton weeks for Hyatt weeks.


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## dioxide45 (Jul 9, 2016)

bizaro86 said:


> If you put hyatt deeds in flex, it doesn't matter whether Hyatt owners want Sheraton or not. Flex owners would be booking their owned weeks, not trading Sheraton weeks for Hyatt weeks.



Exactly. I agree. Hyatt owners wouldn't have a choice. Though it doesn't mean they wouldn't be mad that the "low class" Sheraton owners (we own SVV) are staying at their resort. Just like the Marriott DC program owners having access to the Ritz Carlton properties through the Marriott program.


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## bdh (Jul 9, 2016)

dioxide45 said:


> No reason at all they can't convey some of the Hyatt properties to the Sheraton Flex Trust. Then flex owners can book in to Hyatt at 12 months.
> 
> I just really don't see this happening. Aren't all the properties that are in the Sheraton flex a major step below most of the Hyatt properties? Are Hyatt owners going to want to be able to book in to Sheraton properties? Maybe, but it would be a small percentage if you ask me. There would be lots of Sheraton people clamoring to book in to Hyatt though.



No doubt HRC Corporate deeded weeks could be put into a trust for a pure points system - but HRC Corporate doesn't own a boat load of weeks as the majority of the Hyatt properties are mature/sold out.  When you go thru the list of HRC properties, Hyatt only has active sales at a few properties as they have little inventory to sell.  The only two properties that are not fully built are Coconut Plantation and Wild Oak - ILG/HRC could re-energize the build out at Coconut and Wild Oak, but there hasn't been any construction activity at either one for at least 8+/- years. 

Note that the typical HRC TS property development model has been that Hyatt provides the brand & management while an outside development partner funds/constructs the buildings and own the weeks.  The developer's profit comes from selling weeks, so the developer wants weeks sold in lieu of putting them into a points trust.  HRC could buy the developer weeks, but seems like odd math for HRC to buy $45K to $100K weeks at Maui to put into a points trust. 

While Hyatt has been randomly exercising ROFR for the past year, they have not amassed a stock pile of deeded weeks.  And some of the KW weeks they've ROFR'd, they've turned around and sold on the open market for a $10K per week profit.  

FWIW: Hyatt properties have always taken the "boutique" approach (Sunset Harbor has only 40 units) in lieu of the mega program like Marriott used - so Hyatt does not have 500,000 owners/members.  Totally agree that few HRC owners will participate in a Sheraton/Hyatt points program for access to Sheraton properties.


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## lizap (Jul 9, 2016)

As a Hyatt owner, one reason we bought Hyatt was the ability to exchange into other Hyatts (similar to why we bought a platinum plus WKV).  If this changes or becomes more difficult to do, we will likely sell our Hyatt unit.  As some have surmised, we have little to no interest in exchanging into Sheratons in the FLEX program. How many owners at WKORV (oceanfront) would be happy if Vistana decided to let all voluntary owners have access to their units using SOs?  This may be Vistana's next move...Similar to Marriott, Hyatt owners should be allowed to buy into FLEX at a nominal cost.


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## DavidnRobin (Jul 9, 2016)

lizap said:


> As a Hyatt owner, one reason we bought Hyatt was the ability to exchange into other Hyatts (similar to why we bought a platinum plus WKV).  If this changes or becomes more difficult to do, we will likely sell our Hyatt unit.  As some have surmised, we have little to no interest in exchanging into Sheratons in the FLEX program. How many owners at WKORV (oceanfront) would be happy if Vistana decided to let all voluntary owners have access to their units using SOs?  This may be Vistana's next move...Similar to Marriott, Hyatt owners should be allowed to buy into FLEX at a nominal cost.



Re: exchange for WKORV OF... this is at <8 months out (VSN exchange), not 8-12 months (HomeResort)  You can already get WKORV/N OF at 8 months out as VSN exchange.  So, this is not the issue as long as timestamps rules still apply.
It will become an issue when my location is impacted - and no evidence to the contrary in 10 years of using our OF.


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## cubigbird (Jul 10, 2016)

There is a thread in the "Other Timeshare Systems" forum regarding a Hyatt owners update, with similar information shared about Hyatt moving toward a trust points system and talk of cross access to VSE.


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## lizap (Jul 10, 2016)

Appears the rules are being re-written to the detriment of owners who purchased into the Hyatt and Starwood (SO) systems.  If you visit the resort you purchased every year, I don't think the new rules will hurt you.  Conversely, if you have been using the internal exchange systems, you could well be adversely impacted. Would not be surprised to see resale values drop at Hyatts and mandatory VSE resorts..



DavidnRobin said:


> Re: exchange for WKORV OF... this is at <8 months out (VSN exchange), not 8-12 months (HomeResort)  You can already get WKORV/N OF at 8 months out as VSN exchange.  So, this is not the issue as long as timestamps rules still apply.
> It will become an issue when my location is impacted - and no evidence to the contrary in 10 years of using our OF.


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## DavidnRobin (Jul 10, 2016)

lizap said:


> Appears the rules are being re-written to the detriment of owners who purchased into the Hyatt and Starwood (SO) systems.  If you visit the resort you purchased every year, I don't think the new rules will hurt you.  Conversely, if you have been using the internal exchange systems, you could well be adversely impacted. Would not be surprised to see resale values drop at Hyatts and mandatory VSE resorts..



Let's remember: This thread is based on speculation from an Owners (Sales) Update.


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## LurkerBee (Jul 10, 2016)

DavidnRobin said:


> Let's remember: This thread is based on speculation from an Owners (Sales) Update.



But what is interesting is the ILG has said they want to switch Hyatt to "pure points." Then you have the OP's report of an owners update that indicates it may include Hyatt with points. Then we have a Hyatt owner's update saying very similar things (http://tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=243975). So while it's speculation, the evidence suggested that *something* is happening to somehow combine Hyatt and Sheraton - points? Access? Something?


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## Ken555 (Jul 10, 2016)

Of course something will happen. I'm sure Interval had a plan when they bought Hyatt, and another when they bought SVN. None of us should be surprised by changes, and I'd suggest saving any outrage over such changes until we know exactly what they will be. So far, I agree with David...just speculation.


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## lizap (Jul 10, 2016)

Keep in mind Hyatt has a "points" system.  Our week(s) are worth so many points and allows us to exchange into other resorts...



LurkerBee said:


> But what is interesting is the ILG has said they want to switch Hyatt to "pure points." Then you have the OP's report of an owners update that indicates it may include Hyatt with points. Then we have a Hyatt owner's update saying very similar things (http://tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=243975). So while it's speculation, the evidence suggested that *something* is happening to somehow combine Hyatt and Sheraton - points? Access? Something?


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## DavidnRobin (Jul 10, 2016)

I agree something will happen - just that speculation here sometimes tends to be considered factual.
One fact. They can essential force what they want as long as deemed proftable by the organizations and HOAs - which they control. And Legal - which is often a gray area.  All based on Risk/Reward - from their perspectives, with benefit to them (over us).


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## rickspenceresq1 (Jul 11, 2016)

I called vistana.  They told me that there are absolutely no plans to put hyatt into the flex program.  I think your emotions are clouding your thought process here.  You want it to happen so badly that you will believe these rumors when the home office denies it.  

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## DeniseM (Jul 11, 2016)

rickspenceresq1 said:


> I called vistana.  They told me that there are absolutely no plans to put hyatt into the flex program.  I think your emotions are clouding your thought process here.  You want it to happen so badly that you will believe these rumors when the home office denies it.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N920P using Tapatalk



Who exactly did you talk to?


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## DavidnRobin (Jul 11, 2016)

rickspenceresq1 said:


> I called vistana.  They told me that there are absolutely no plans to put hyatt into the flex program.  I think your emotions are clouding your thought process here.  You want it to happen so badly that you will believe these rumors when the home office denies it.



Actually, think it is opposite - they desire NOT to have it happen. The OP stated that it was in a Sales presentation they saw - that would be a level up from rumor...

http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1903339&postcount=44


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## rickspenceresq1 (Jul 11, 2016)

Why would they not want it to happen and have more vacation options? Why would the home office deny it if it was happening? If this was happening the home office woukd use it as a marketing tool.

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## DavidnRobin (Jul 11, 2016)

rickspenceresq1 said:


> Why would they not want it to happen and have more vacation options? Why would the home office deny it if it was happening? If this was happening the home office woukd use it as a marketing tool.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N920P using Tapatalk



Who is 'they'? based on thread - many would not be happy with combining Hyatt and Flex (personally I do not care as I would never exchange my VSE VOIs to Hyatt).  Of course - it would be used as Marketing tool - but you are not reading whole thread. Who knows why one group (Sales) would say it is happening while Corp office says 'No'.

DeniseM asks who did you talk to - and no response...
The OP stated it was in Sales presentation - read thread.

Bottom-line - it is all speculation until it becomes fact.


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## DeniseM (Jul 11, 2016)

rickspenceresq1 said:


> Why would they not want it to happen and have more vacation options? Why would the home office deny it if it was happening? If this was happening the home office woukd use it as a marketing tool.



I'd still like to know *who* you are quoting.

If the "home office," is the entry level person who answered the phone when you called owner services, that is definitely not an authoritative source of information, and they are often the last to know.  

Entry level people would not know about a change, until after the change had been implemented, and they received training on the new procedure.


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## DeniseM (Jul 15, 2016)

I have been able to independently verify that you cannot make Hyatt reservations with Sheraton Flex Options.   

So, it sure makes you wonder about that sales presentation!


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## rickspenceresq1 (Jul 16, 2016)

It would be nice if they did it, but they will only do it if it in someway benefits them.  

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