# I am going insane!



## Rose Pink (Mar 31, 2010)

All I want is a single wall oven (electric with convection) and a separate built-in microwave. I don't want to buy one unless I can first see it and touch it and open the door and push the buttons, twist the knobs, etc. But, no, I can't find more than one or two models in showrooms--and I've been to at least 8 stores. "We don't have single wall ovens because we only sell 1 or 2 a year and it is too expensive in this economy to have that much inventory." 

GE is the worst.
GE is the best.

Amana microwaves are the worst.
Amana microwaves are the best.

Whirlpool has bought Maytag which means Jenn-Air, KitchenAid, Amana, Roper, Magic Chef, Maytag and Whirlpool branded appliaces are all owned by the same company. The Maytag man says Whirlpool is designed to wear out *but *some Maytag appliances are still made in Maytag factories are still good (so far). 

He also said LG is good but parts are hard to come by and cost 3 times as much.

So, depending on who you talk to, this appliance or that is the best/worst and this company or that is the best/ worst.

I feel like it's a crap shoot whatever I buy. Even if I buy an oven with a historically good track record, I could get a lemon. Like Toyota.

I've been patiently waiting for decades, sacrificing and postponing, until it was finally my turn to get a new kitchen. And now, _this._  

I console myself by remembering that at least I do have choices unlike many of my sisters around the world who feel lucky if they can scrounge up enough fuel to build a small fire to cook a meager handful of food.

How do *you* keep from going insane?


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## laurac260 (Mar 31, 2010)

Rose Pink said:


> How do *you* keep from going insane?



Easy...because I LOVE my convection, dual fuel cooktop/oven.   I am not a professional chef, so I don't need a professional grade oven, but I do cook alot (atleast twice a day), so I needed an oven/cooktop that could keep up with me.  I didn't ask anyone's opinions, because no one lives in my house but me (well, my family does...but no one else, and I am the chief cook), so it needed to be what worked for me.   If you ask 10 ppl you will get 10 opinions.  A hundred ppl, same thing.  And you will be left being frustrated.

Oh, and by the way, I bought it out of the catalog!


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## DeniseM (Mar 31, 2010)

Have you considered doing some independent research with Consumer Reports and similar resources?  I don't think you will get an objective opinion from sales people.


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## ricoba (Mar 31, 2010)

I kind of know what you mean.  

We have to buy a new dishwasher, so I check and read reviews and it's amazing how one person absolutely loves the thing and another person calls it the worst product ever made.   

How does this happen?  If a product is good don't you think most people would think so, or the same if it was bad?  I just wonder about the divergence of opinion on these things.


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## Rose Pink (Mar 31, 2010)

laurac260;889391...it needed to be what worked for me.[/quote said:
			
		

> Yes, and what I want to work for me is an appliance with a good track record for reliability.  I can't afford to buy something that is going to break down.  I also find that I cannot picture something in 3D real life from a picture in a book or on a web page.  Hence the need to kick the tires before committing to such a large purchase.  I just don't want to make a mistake I am going to regret.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## Beaglemom3 (Mar 31, 2010)

RosePink,

I understand your frustration.

 I have been searching for a gas, slide-in range, with double ovens (2nd one not a warming, but a smaller real oven) and preferably not convection. This is not the wall oven, either.

It does not exist. Like life, I will have to do the tradeoff somewhere.

There may be some in the $3-5k range, (Viking, Wolf, etc. )but I don't need it that badly.


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## laurac260 (Mar 31, 2010)

ricoba said:


> I kind of know what you mean.
> 
> We have to buy a new dishwasher, so I check and read reviews and it's amazing how one person absolutely loves the thing and another person calls it the worst product ever made.
> 
> How does this happen?  If a product is good don't you think most people would think so, or the same if it was bad?  I just wonder about the divergence of opinion on these things.




That's easy...if you come from an apartment with a 30" , coil burner stove, ANYTHING is an upgrade.  If you work in a restaurant kitchen day after day, anything else is a downgrade.  It all depends on your reference point.  Me personally, I thoroughly dislike ceramic cooktops.  We've been looking at houses lately, and seeing one of those in a kitchen stops me cold.  My mom on the other hand just UPGRADED to one.  

My MIL went appliance shopping recently.  I tried explaining decibel levels on dishwashers to her (she was replacing one that was 30 years old).  She said she didn't care about "that stuff", so she bought whatever.  And still she was _amazed_ how quiet it was!   She said she finds herself checking it to make sure it is on.   It's a downgrade from mine, but a huge upgrade from hers.  And my dishwasher would be a downgrade from others, but it was an upgrade for me.    It's all in what you are looking for, and what you are used to.  As much as I love my dishwasher (it's quiet, it sanitizes, which is a MUST, has time delay, etc, etc, ) it is a tad small inside.  I'd like pull out drawer for my pots and pans.    As far as my fridge goes, I swore I'd never own a fridge with a pull out freezer drawer, but I wouldn't own a side by side ever again now.   Everyone is different, which is why you get different reviews for the same product.  

My fridge would probably have rated in the "sucks" category, and did for me for awhile, until the mfg fixed the ongoing ice maker issue.  Now it is by far the favorite one I've ever owned.


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## laurac260 (Mar 31, 2010)

Beaglemom3 said:


> RosePink,
> 
> I understand your frustration.
> 
> ...



I find myself needing another oven from time to time as well.  But I solved that problem by buying an advantium microwave.  You can use it as a standard microwave, or a speed cook (cooks with light, conventional heat, and microwave) or as a standard oven.  So I have a convection/conventional oven (electric, but with a gas cooktop), and a smaller oven above, without losing space.  A double oven would be a space waster for me, because most of the time the 2nd one would sit.  I prefer to NOT have a gas oven, because I don't like the idea of leaving a gas oven on when I am not at home.  (probably something silly I am carrying over from the days of watching mom light the pilot light, and it occasionally going out).


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## Passepartout (Mar 31, 2010)

laurac260 said:


> I don't like the idea of leaving a gas oven on when I am not at home.  (probably something silly I am carrying over from the days of watching mom light the pilot light, and it occasionally going out).



Gas ovens don't have pilot lights anymore except in really low end ones like in travel trailers. They went the way of timers and Do-Do birds. I don't like gas ovens either, but not for that reason. They just don't hold accurate temp with their on-off-on-off burner cycling.

*Rose Pink*, if you have an appliance repairman you trust, give him a call for recommendations. These guys (it's always guys) see what breaks and what is well designed/made and don't generally have anything to sell.

Jim Ricks


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## rickandcindy23 (Mar 31, 2010)

My used-to-be quiet Maytag dishwasher and Maytag washer are no longer quiet.  The washer used to be so quiet, I would not hear it all in the family room, and now I have to turn up the television when it spins.  Dishwasher-same thing.  

Our son has a Whirlpool Gold dishwasher, noisy from the first day it was new, bad for loading, as his plates fall over.  I put them in differently, they fell over again.  The dishwasher leaves a white glaze on his dishes which was not helped by getting a water softener and using a rinsing agent.  He put in less soap, still a white film.  It's the worst dishwasher I have ever seen.  I didn't even believe him when he was complaining about it, so I went over myself and put clean dishes in, and out came dirty looking dishes.  

My Whirlpool oven and microwave combo have some issues, too.  The front of the plastic on the microwave has a white cloudiness to it, and the handle of the oven is black but is looking chipped.  It's only ten years old and I don't beat it up.  My Whirlpool refrigerator I bought ten years ago has broken down three times, twice was the icemaker, and the last time it broke, I just started using ice cube trays.  Disappointing because my old one, also a Whirlpool, worked for 16 years without a hitch.  

Still love my Kitchen Aid gas cooktop.


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## laurac260 (Mar 31, 2010)

Passepartout said:


> Gas oven don't have pilot lights anymore except in really low end ones like travel trailers. They went the way of timers and Do-Do birds. I don't like gas ovens either, but not for that reason. They just don't hold accurate temp with their on-off-on-off burner cycling.
> 
> .
> 
> Jim Ricks



Jim, surely you didn't think I thought they STILL had them, did you?????    



 oh yea, NOW I remember why I have you on my ignore list.....


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## Passepartout (Mar 31, 2010)

laurac260 said:


> oh yea, NOW I remember why I have you on my ignore list.....



That's working well...  Thanks! it isn't everyone that'll tell you that you're being ignored.


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## pjrose (Mar 31, 2010)

laurac260 said:


> oh yea, NOW I remember why I have you on my ignore list.....



That's not very friendly


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## pjrose (Mar 31, 2010)

So am I, but for other reasons.

Many years ago we used to have those same types of problems picking cars and appliances.  We finally got a car we liked from a salesman we liked, and have bought every car since then from the same salesman.  No more stress, we just call up and tell Brad we're going to need another one soon, he knows exactly what we want, calls us when someone trades one in, and has never steered us wrong.  Similarly, decades ago we bought Kenmore appliances and vacuums, liked them, and now make our lives easier by just going to Sears and picking a combination of features and price.  I don't know or care if they're the *best* choice, but they work fine and we haven't got all the decision-making stress.  

I like the suggestion of asking a repairman/person/shop.  

After that, narrow it down, pick one, and be done with it.  The world will keep turning.  

Hugs.


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## Rose Pink (Mar 31, 2010)

Passepartout said:


> *Rose Pink*, if you have an appliance repairman you trust, give him a call for recommendations. These guys (it's always guys) see what breaks and what is well designed/made and don't generally have anything to sell.
> 
> Jim Ricks


 


pjrose said:


> I like the suggestion of asking a repairman/person/shop.
> 
> After that, narrow it down, pick one, and be done with it. The world will keep turning.
> 
> Hugs.


 
The Maytag man I spoke with today does repairs as well.   I do like this idea and will call another repairman tomorrow for a second opinion.  But, as they say, past performance is not a guarantee of future performance--especially with all these changes in company ownership.

PJ, I do need to just pick one and (hopefully) be done with it.  Being a perfectionist is such a handicap.  Thankfully, my DH is an easy going guy who puts up with my indecision.  He was cheerful when I tried out at least 10 different paint colors for the walls (about $200 in paint).  He was stunned and shocked when it took me only 30 seconds to point to a cabinet sample and say, "that's the one."  I was a bit stunned myself--but I've been looking at cabinetry for decades and pretty much knew what I wanted.

And you are so right--the world will keep turning and it doesn't matter if the choice is absolutely perfect.  Perfection is just an illusion.


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## nightnurse613 (Mar 31, 2010)

I don't do enough cooking anymore to worry about Viking or some of those other big names.  My husband bought me a GE Profile Micro/Convection about 3 years ago (maybe 2 cf?)  I only use my regular oven during the Holidays.:zzz:


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## Rose Pink (Mar 31, 2010)

nightnurse613 said:


> I don't do enough cooking anymore to worry about Viking or some of those other big names. My husband bought me a GE Profile Micro/Convection about 3 years ago (maybe 2 cf?) I only use my regular oven during the Holidays.:zzz:


I'm considering a GE Profile microwave (not the convection one) with a trim kit.  Found one on sale today for much less than I had expected.  It was only $219 plus the trim kit.  I figure that for $219 I can afford to replace it if goes out in 5 years without feeling bad about it.  It was 1200 watts--which DH insists on.


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## MuranoJo (Apr 1, 2010)

Rose Pink said:


> "We don't have single wall ovens because we only sell 1 or 2 a year and it is too expensive in this economy to have that much inventory."



Don't you think some of this has to do with so many buying from large discount stores or online vs. brick & mortar locals? Even the large retail establishments have cut down on the display models from what I've seen.

Anyway, I have learned the 'tried and true' brands of the past may not be the same today.  And I would love a double oven!!


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## Rose Pink (Apr 1, 2010)

muranojo said:


> Anyway, I have learned the 'tried and true' brands of the past may not be the same today.


 
So, pretty much I should just choose what I think looks attractive at a price I am willing to pay for the features I want?  That is how I am feeling at present.  I can't make out what brand is good and what isn't from all the contradictory reports I've received.


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## pjrose (Apr 1, 2010)

Rose Pink said:


> So, pretty much I should just choose what I think looks attractive at a price I am willing to pay for the features I want?  That is how I am feeling at present.  I can't make out what brand is good and what isn't from all the contradictory reports I've received.



Yes.  It's not worth the stress to keep agonizing about it.  It is not a life-altering decision.  (This coming from the woman who often over-thinks and analyzes everything.....)


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## Rose Pink (Apr 1, 2010)

pjrose said:


> Yes. It's not worth the stress to keep agonizing about it. It is not a life-altering decision. (This coming from the woman who often over-thinks and analyzes everything.....)


Maybe you can put some statistical analysis together to help me.


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## Twinkstarr (Apr 1, 2010)

muranojo said:


> Don't you think some of this has to do with so many buying from large discount stores or online vs. brick & mortar locals? Even the large retail establishments have cut down on the display models from what I've seen.
> 
> Anyway, I have learned the 'tried and true' brands of the past may not be the same today.  And I would love a double oven!!



Yes, what you thought was a good brand yesterday is a stinker now. 

We're lucky to have a locally owned appliance store, been around 30+ yrs, just expanded(they always had tons of models on the floor, now even more). Sales people are paid on salary, bonus based on company sales not their own.
And most have been around for awhile, we've been fairly lucky. Plus they have always had free delivery/removal and if you buy more than one item they usually give you a volume discount. I don't look anywhere else for appliances. 

I will admit my problems have been mostly GE related(washer/dryer gone after 4 yrs). I've not had a problem with my GE stove or micro I bought 9 yrs ago. Very happy with my GE Monogram built-in frig. And my Fisher-Paykel dishdrawers are still going strong after 9 yrs too.


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## geekette (Apr 1, 2010)

ricoba said:


> I kind of know what you mean.
> 
> We have to buy a new dishwasher, so I check and read reviews and it's amazing how one person absolutely loves the thing and another person calls it the worst product ever made.
> 
> How does this happen?  If a product is good don't you think most people would think so, or the same if it was bad?  I just wonder about the divergence of opinion on these things.



same as timeshare reviews.  each person has their own unique perspective and you will never know what happened to them that day that influenced their opinion.


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## geekette (Apr 1, 2010)

pjrose said:


> So am I, but for other reasons.
> 
> Many years ago we used to have those same types of problems picking cars and appliances.  We finally got a car we liked from a salesman we liked, and have bought every car since then from the same salesman.  No more stress, we just call up and tell Brad we're going to need another one soon, he knows exactly what we want, calls us when someone trades one in, and has never steered us wrong.  Similarly, decades ago we bought Kenmore appliances and vacuums, liked them, and now make our lives easier by just going to Sears and picking a combination of features and price.  I don't know or care if they're the *best* choice, but they work fine and we haven't got all the decision-making stress.
> 
> ...




Indeed, most of the chores I've done in life have been assisted by Kenmore or Craftsman.  Finally gave away the vaccuum we had growing up because I wanted an upright, even tho the old pull along still worked like a charm after 30 years or more.

I have no idea how old our stove is, but "ancient" is close.  No earlier than 70s, all the ridiculous dials I never used.  Not self-cleaning (UGH!)  Kenmore.  waiting for it to die before we dig it out of the ridiculous fortress of "built in" that previous owner made.  When it goes, the tile counters won't survive.

Microwave same vintage, I think Amana?  My luck will have stove and microwave dying within days of each other, like spouses together for too many decades to survive alone.

I think the ancient side-by-side the house came with (lives in the garage now) is Westinghouse.  They just don't make em like that anymore.


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## Elan (Apr 1, 2010)

Rose Pink said:


> I can't make out what brand is good and what isn't from all the contradictory reports I've received.



  I feel your pain.  Wait til you need to go shopping for a new mattress..... 

  What sucks is that these days spending more doesn't necessarily mean you'll get a better performing or longer lasting product.  I always have opted for the higher-end, quality stuff, but more and more I find myself thinking "Maybe I should go cheap, so if/when it breaks in a few years, I won't be as disappointed".


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## Rose Pink (Apr 2, 2010)

Elan said:


> ...more and more I find myself thinking "Maybe I should go cheap, so if/when it breaks in a few years, I won't be as disappointed".


That about sums up my mindset this morning.  I spoke with another repairman yesterday and his input just added more fuel to the fire of confusion.

I'm going to just pick what I think looks attractive in what I feel is an appropriate price range and just forget the rest.  :annoyed:


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## Rose Pink (Apr 3, 2010)

I think I may be narrowing down on a Bosch wall oven and a Bosch microwave.  I can get a less expensive microwave but I think for the extra $150 to $200, I may spring for the Bosch brand just so it will match the oven.

I think I can get both for about $2000.  That's an oven with convection but not the more expensive European convection.

Speaking of convection ovens, I did not know there was more than one type.  After seeing real, true, geniune, speed, European, truly real and really true genuine speedy European and supercalifragilistic convection options, I am a bit confused.  I think the difference is the European has a third heating element that heats the air before it blows into the already heated oven.  One salesperson said he thought some had fans that reversed directions.  Sounds like more things to break, IMO.  Simpler is better--and cheaper.


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## ScoopKona (Apr 3, 2010)

Rose Pink said:


> Speaking of convection ovens, I did not know there was more than one type.  After seeing real, true, geniune, speed, European, truly real and really true genuine speedy European and supercalifragilistic convection options, I am a bit confused.  I think the difference is the European has a third heating element that heats the air before it blows into the already heated oven.  One salesperson said he thought some had fans that reversed directions.  Sounds like more things to break, IMO.  Simpler is better--and cheaper.



These are part of the new wave of ovens that are on the way. Some people love 'em. Others don't. Depends on how you cook/bake. Most of these focus on "fast" which is not always a good thing. But is the main selling point for a large segment of their target market.

I still think your best bet is to find a cooking club in your area and start going to meetings. You'll be able to try out other member's equipment, free.

There's no substitute for hands-on experience, as most appliances are a pig-in-a-poke.


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## MuranoJo (Apr 3, 2010)

Rose Pink said:


> I think I may be narrowing down on a Bosch wall oven and a Bosch microwave.  I can get a less expensive microwave but I think for the extra $150 to $200, I may spring for the Bosch brand just so it will match the oven.
> 
> I think I can get both for about $2000.  That's an oven with convection but not the more expensive European convection.
> 
> Speaking of convection ovens, I did not know there was more than one type.  After seeing real, true, geniune, speed, European, truly real and really true genuine speedy European and supercalifragilistic convection options, I am a bit confused.  I think the difference is the European has a third heating element that heats the air before it blows into the already heated oven.  One salesperson said he thought some had fans that reversed directions.  Sounds like more things to break, IMO.  Simpler is better--and cheaper.



We got a Bosch washer & dryer and put them both on the pedestals, and just love them!  It's been about 2 years, so we'll see how they do down the road.  Only negative I'd heard is it sometimes takes a while to get parts in if you do have a problem.  Don't have any info. on the stoves/ovens, but you have made your decision, so congrats!  (Heck, there are lemons no matter the brand.)


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## AEService (Apr 7, 2010)

[Advertising is not permitted on TUG. - DeniseM Moderator]


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## AEService (Apr 7, 2010)

I also wanted to comment to Rose Pink. Most retailers carry essentially the same appliances. The model numbers will change a bit depending on the number of features associated with the appliance. General rule, go cheap, get cheap still applies. A nice mid priced oven should do all you need. Also, no manufacturer intends for things to go wrong, but anything that is manufactured from appliances to Ferrari’s have the possibility of failure. Typically failure rates are about 5% of production on most models. Unfortunately, most people who post reviews are mostly those 5% that have had problems. Have faith in Consumer Reports and you local service people, we see it all. Now, that being said, like the police we only see the problems, not the 95% that have no issues whatsoever. If we see a lot of failures, it may only be because it is a very popular model and there are just so many more are out in the public. Percentages play into what we see.
Ultimately it is your decision. Pick something you like and that you think will work for your needs and don’t buy the cheapest thing you see. You should be totally happy with it. All appliances are designed with essentially the same basic blueprint. 

Brian


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## Rose Pink (Apr 7, 2010)

AEService said:


> ... All appliances are designed with essentially the same basic blueprint.
> 
> Brian


That's what I've noticed.  Same box, same exterior look (for the most part) but great differences in prices for the three single wall ovens that Bosch sells.  We've decided on the middle one since the lowest price does not include convection and I've wanted that for a long time.

Same thing goes for other brands.  The boxes look nearly identical.  The dials or buttons may vary but they all start with the same box.


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## Rose Pink (Apr 7, 2010)

*Stainless or Black cooktop?*

I need your experiences now as I must make my decision by tomorrow or the next day.  

We've picked out the gas cooktop.  30" for space.  36" leaves me very little counter space.

I don't care for the look of stainless steel but the refrigerator we've decided on doesn't come in anything else.  It is very wide and will take up most of the south wall.  The look will be softened by the wood cabinetry around it.

My dishwasher is black--and is the only thing we are keeping besides the walls and subfloor.  Even the east wall is being furred out to accomodate an inch of insulation--not much but better than the nothing we have now.

The wall oven and the microwave will be black as well--they will be on the the same wall as the dishwasher.  The sink will be stainless.

Now, I was going to go with the black cooktop but I am concerned that water marks will show the first time something boils over.  And I burn water.  Even if you clean it up immediately, for some reason, dark surfaces show water marks.  Even with soft water.

So...my thoughts are to go with the stainless even though I don't like it as well for the same reason I am going with a stainless sink.  I can scour it with steel wool and it will still look good.  The black grates will tie in the stainless appliances with the black ones.

But...I really would rather have the black cooktop because I think it is prettier--but it won't be prettier if it shows marks.  Do any of you have a black cooktop (not glass) and have you had problems?

*Also*, 4 burner or 5 burner?  Both have a 16,000 BTU burner (sorry, Scoop, but I'd just burn down the house with more).  I've never had a stove with more than 4 but that 5th one looks like it would be useful for the once a year canning I do.  And it just looks prettier. 

Here is the website but don't freak about the prices.  I'm not paying nearly that much!  http://www.bosch-home.com/us/products/cooking/cooktops/gas/list.html


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## ScoopKona (Apr 7, 2010)

Black.

I can scratch most stainless just by looking at it. Really good 304 is an exception. But most consumer stainless isn't high-quality 304.

And you can fix any scratches on black appliances with a Sharpie Enamel pen. I have done so many, many times. You can't even tell there was once a scratch.

Black is much easier to keep clean, hides any carbon scorches, and can be fixed with the aforementioned sharpie.

Besides, you already have one black appliance.


So there's my vote.

EDIT -- Five burner. The four burner doesn't seem to have any advantage at all.  You could put a cast iron griddle there the rest of the year when you're not canning.


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## Rose Pink (Apr 7, 2010)

ScoopLV said:


> I still think your best bet is to find a cooking club in your area and start going to meetings. You'll be able to try out other member's equipment, free.


 
I've been mulling over your advice for the past few days.  I really like the idea of going to other people's houses and eating what they cook.  However, I am concerned that sooner or later they would expect to come to my house and eat something I've prepared.  Then I would lose all my new friends.  Could we come to your house instead?


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## Rose Pink (Apr 7, 2010)

ScoopLV said:


> *Black. ....So there's my vote.*
> 
> EDIT -- Five burner. The four burner doesn't seem to have any advantage at all. You could put a cast iron griddle there the rest of the year when you're not canning.


I love you, Scoop!


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## pjrose (Apr 7, 2010)

Rose Pink said:


> I've been mulling over your advice for the past few days.  I really like the idea of going to other people's houses and eating what they cook.  *However, I am concerned that sooner or later they would expect to come to my house and eat something I've prepared.*  Then I would lose all my new friends.  Could we come to your house instead?



You mean like burned water?


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## Rose Pink (Apr 7, 2010)

pjrose said:


> You mean like burned water?


Burning takes all the calories out of it.


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## Rose Pink (Apr 7, 2010)

*D%^&*()_+$#@!*

That's me cussing! :annoyed: :annoyed: :annoyed: :annoyed: :annoyed: 

Now that I've decided on the 5 burner in black, I find it doesn't come in a 30". I can get a black 5 burner in a 36 inch OR a black 4 burner in a 30 inch but not a black 5 burner in the 30 inch. So, if I want a 30 inch, 5 burner I have to go with the stainless.

I am going to go re-measure and see if I can part with 6 inches of precious counter space. 

This almost always happens. I have a very difficult time making a decision and then when I do I cannot get what I want.

This is the sound of me stomping my feet and pounding my fists: /!/!/!/!/!/!


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## laurac260 (Apr 7, 2010)

Rose Pink said:


> That's me cussing! :annoyed: :annoyed: :annoyed: :annoyed: :annoyed:
> 
> Now that I've decided on the 5 burner in black, I find it doesn't come in a 30". I can get a black 5 burner in a 36 inch OR a black 4 burner in a 30 inch but not a black 5 burner in the 30 inch. So, if I want a 30 inch, 5 burner I have to go with the stainless.
> 
> ...



Don't get hung up on the number of burners when you are comparing 30" to 36".  Think of the pots you COOK with.   A 30" 5 burner may have 5 burners on it, but unless your pots are small, you probably won't be able to use all 5 burners at once.   I just measured my cook top, 30" and 4 burners.  When I use all 4 burners it pretty much takes up all the space.  A fifth burner would not be very practical at that size, atleast not with the size of pots I typically use.   That may make or break what you go with.


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## Twinkstarr (Apr 7, 2010)

Rose Pink said:


> That's me cussing! :annoyed: :annoyed: :annoyed: :annoyed: :annoyed:
> 
> Now that I've decided on the 5 burner in black, I find it doesn't come in a 30". I can get a black 5 burner in a 36 inch OR a black 4 burner in a 30 inch but not a black 5 burner in the 30 inch. So, if I want a 30 inch, 5 burner I have to go with the stainless.
> 
> ...



I would take my most used pots with me to the appliance store and see how they all fit on your preferred model. I'm going to do something similar if I ever need a new dishwasher. 

And it's not crazy, as I've seen other people do this.


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## Rose Pink (Apr 7, 2010)

I doubt I'd ever use all five burners at the same time. I did realize it would get very crowded.  I liked the 5th burner because it is larger for a larger pot such as what I'd use when canning or cooking pasta.  

But, if you can use a large stock pot size pot on a regular gas burner, that would make the 5th (larger one) unnecessary.  I've always had an electric coil range with one of the burners larger than the others for the larger pots.  Cooking with gas will be new for DH and I but we are looking forward to it.

Does the surface size of the burner make a difference with gas?  If you look at the link I posted, you will see what I mean about the larger center burner.


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## ScoopKona (Apr 7, 2010)

Rose Pink said:


> I am going to go re-measure and see if I can part with 6 inches of precious counter space.



Does your kitchen have an island?

I do ALL of my prep on my island, which is the only surface big enough for my cutting boards.

The counter space around my stove is just for utensils that I use every day -- knife block, wooden spoons, whisks, etc. Six inches wouldn't make a whit of difference in my case.


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## pjrose (Apr 7, 2010)

It sounds like four will do.....
Does the store have both models there, "in person"?  If so, take your pots and pans in tomorrow and try them out on the actual floor models!

Which is more important to you, the five burners, or the counter space?  If you have lots of counter space, losing 6" isn't an issue, but if not.....

It really depends on how you use your kitchen.  My sister can make incredible meals for lots of people in only inches of counter space, but I need all 12 feet (more or less) to make hot dogs.


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## Rose Pink (Apr 8, 2010)

ScoopLV said:


> Does your kitchen have an island?


We are planning to have a movable butcher block-topped cart. I can see myself doing most of the prep on that. The cart will get alot of use. DH had always wanted an island or a peninsula but there is no room for one. He came up with the cart idea instead and I think it is a good one.

The upside of so little counter space is that it kept the cost of the granite down. 

The cooktop will sit on a countertop that is 66 inches wide. Depending on whether I go with the 30-inch or the 36-inch will give me either 15 inches or 18 inches on either side of it. The width of the counter is limited by the windows on either side. That is more space than I have now. For nearly two decades I've been cooking on a range that had about 12 inches of counter between it and the kitchen sink on one side and nothing, zero, nada counter on the other side. So, having even 15 inches on both sides will seem like a luxury to me.



pjrose said:


> It sounds like four will do.....
> Does the store have both models there, "in person"? If so, take your pots and pans in tomorrow and try them out on the actual floor models!
> 
> Which is more important to you, the five burners, or the counter space? If you have lots of counter space, losing 6" isn't an issue, but if not.....
> ...


 
I bet those are some tasty hotdogs! Nathan's? Those are the best.

My present range is 30 inches and I placed a bucket in the center this morning to approximate what 5 burners would look like with a large pot in the center. The store has the 36-inch version, but not the 30 inch.

I really want the five burners _now that I can't have them_ in black in a 30-inch.  

So, is the consensus that a regular size gas burner will do just fine with a big stock pot or canning equipment? Even on the regular 4-burner, one of the units is 16,000 BTU. IOW, does the size of the burner matter (not the BTUs but the diameter of the unit) in gas as it does in electric coil? I've been cooking and scorching water for decades on 30-inch 4-burner electric coils so I think I wouldn't miss the 5th burner (since I never had one) _just so long as the size of the gas burners can handle large pots._


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## Passepartout (Apr 8, 2010)

Rose Pink said:


> ...Having even 15 inches on both sides will seem like a luxury to me.
> 
> So, is the consensus that a regular size gas burner will do just fine with a big stock pot or canning equipment? Even on the regular 4-burner, one of the units is 16,000 BTU. IOW, does the size of the burner matter (not the BTUs but the diameter of the unit) in gas as it does in electric coil?



I think you will see such a difference from your old electric coil range that you will be very happy. Sure, it's not a humongous commercial range, but you will see such an improvement that you'll be thrilled. You will have to learn that unlike on your electric range, you will have to turn the heat down to do the majority of your cooking. 

I know you'll keep us posted and by the time you get done we'll all feel we had a hand in your new kitchen. We'll be over for a meal. Hot dogs will be fine.

Jim Ricks


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## laurac260 (Apr 8, 2010)

Rose Pink said:


> We are planning to have a movable butcher block-topped cart. I can see myself doing most of the prep on that. The cart will get alot of use. DH had always wanted an island or a peninsula but there is no room for one. He came up with the cart idea instead and I think it is a good one.
> 
> The upside of so little counter space is that it kept the cost of the granite down.
> 
> ...



I know Scoop will have lots to say about this comment, but FOR YOU (and me and most of us folks) 16,000 BTU is more than enough power.  The size of the burner matters, as does the distance from the base of the actual burner to the bottom of your pot (remember, you aren't sitting your pots directly on the heating element anymore).  If you have a 16,000 BTU burner on the cooktop you are looking at it probably is also set up higher than the other 3 burners.  (so remember this when you are cooking if that is indeed the case.  Don't put things on that burner to cook that will burn easily, put your stock pot or your wok on that one).  This is done so that that burner will be optimum for boiling water, etc.  The rest of the burners will be lower, which keeps you FROM burning!  I think you will find you like cooking with gas much better, once you get used to it.  It's much easier to control the amount of heat that goes to the cooking surface.   With electric coils, you can turn the heat down, but it takes a bit for the coils to cool off.  With gas, the second you turn the heat down, the amt of heat going to your pot drops.  You can better control the amt of heat you are using.


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## laurac260 (Apr 8, 2010)

Rose Pink said:


> We are planning to have a movable butcher block-topped cart. I can see myself doing most of the prep on that. The cart will get alot of use. DH had always wanted an island or a peninsula but there is no room for one. He came up with the cart idea instead and I think it is a good one.
> 
> Tpots[/U].[/I]



There are some awesome options out there for kitchen carts, that really look like part of the kitchen.  I was shopping for them for my MIL recently.  Take your time and look online.   I did not have much luck finding them in stores, but found several online (Lowes, BB and Beyond, I think Pottery barn, just do a search for kitchen carts or moveable islands).


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## ScoopKona (Apr 8, 2010)

16K BTU will get a large pot full of liquid to the boil. It will just take longer.

However, 16K BTU will NOT properly sauté a big wok full of vegetables -- not without the help of cast iron, at least.


If 90% of what you do on a stove involves boiling, poaching or simmering, it doesn't really matter what you buy. It's when you want to sear and sauté that it makes a big difference.

The other factor is, "How much time do you have to heat up a cold pan?" If the answer is, "All day," then the BTUs doesn't really matter. If the answer is, "I need this [censored] pan scorching hot in 30 seconds or less," then... well, you can see where I'm going with this.

I'd still go with the bigger rangetop.

Rangetop real estate is worth FAR more to me than countertop real estate. Dollars per square inch vs. pennies per square inch. When I'm gathering my mise, most of it fits in a 2x3' area -- unless I'm baking or making pasta. Then I need 3'x4' to get the job done. Either way, I don't need a lot of counter space. 

But I often have five pans going on the stovetop and find myself wishing I had another burner. 

I'm betting it's not the six inches of _counter_ space that matters, it's the six inches of _*cabinet*_ space. If that's the case, take a long, hard look at all of your kitchen gadgets. Throw out (or donate to Goodwill) all the pots, pans and gadgets you don't use at least twice a year.


EDIT -- Let's help Rose out by posting pics of our kitchens!


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## laurac260 (Apr 8, 2010)

ScoopLV said:


> 16K BTU will get a large pot full of liquid to the boil. It will just take longer.
> 
> However, 16K BTU *will NOT properly sauté* a big wok full of vegetables -- not without the help of cast iron, at least.



My 16,000 BTU burner _properly sautes_ a big wok full of vegetables just fine in my stainless steel wok.  I have no complaints.   I know you fancy yourself a "foodie", but I also know a bit about cooking, considering I've been doing it myself since I was 9, and also worked in a huge catering house for 4 years as well as working in restaurants, so I have spent plenty of time using commercial grade as well.     Rose, you will be just fine with 16k BTUs.  Me, I like plenty of counter space, as I like to spread out.  Sauteing does not require much counter space.  Baking does.  I cook AND bake, so I can appreciate the need to be able to spread out.  Go with what works for YOU.


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## Rose Pink (Apr 8, 2010)

Thanks for the input.  I just got home and DH informs me the contractor called and needs to know _now, this morning,_ the size of the cooktop.  I'm not good with pressure decisions (but that's no surprise  ) and coupled with the new med I'm on, I am feeling sick with the jitters.

I am leaning toward the 36-inch 5-burner.  My thoughts are that even if I don't use them all most of the time, I don't want regrets for the time when I do want to use them.  DH says get what you want so you don't regret it later.  Err on the side of excess rather than wishing you had.  We are also thinking about resale--even though we have no plans to move.  The 36-inch would just look more appealing, I think to potential buyers.


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## Rose Pink (Apr 8, 2010)

Passepartout said:


> I know you'll keep us posted and by the time you get done we'll all feel we had a hand in your new kitchen. We'll be over for a meal. *Hot dogs will be fine.*
> 
> Jim Ricks


Which will be cooked by DH outside on the BBQ grill. 



laurac260 said:


> ...*The size of the burner matters*, as does the distance from the base of the actual burner to the bottom of your pot (remember, you aren't sitting your pots directly on the heating element anymore).


 
So does that mean I would be better off with that 5th larger diameter burner?  Both cooktops have a 16k BTU burner so that is not the issue.  It's the size of the diameter of the burner.  My mindset is still on the coil burners where you needed a bigger burner to match the size of the larger pots and pans.  Is that the same with gas?  Big burners for big pans and little burners for little pans?



laurac260 said:


> There are some awesome options out there for kitchen carts, that really look like part of the kitchen. I was shopping for them for my MIL recently. Take your time and look online. I did not have much luck finding them in stores, but found several online (Lowes, BB and Beyond, I think Pottery barn, just do a search for kitchen carts or moveable islands).


 
Thanks for the suggestions of where to look.  If I can't find what I want already made, I may just buy a table I like and modify it with really good wheels. 



ScoopLV said:


> If 90% of what you do on a stove involves boiling, poaching or simmering, it doesn't really matter what you buy. It's when you want to sear and sauté that it makes a big difference.  ....
> I'm betting it's not the six inches of _counter_ space that matters, it's the six inches of _*cabinet*_ space. If that's the case, take a long, hard look at all of your kitchen gadgets. Throw out (or donate to Goodwill) all the pots, pans and gadgets you don't use at least twice a year.
> 
> 
> EDIT -- Let's help Rose out by posting pics of our kitchens!


No searing of tuna in our house.  DH only likes it chopped up and mixed with mayo.  I will be fine with the 16K BTUs.  I feel settled about that part at least.

The cabinet space remains the same as we are not having any upper cabinets over the cooktop area.  We are planning a fancy tile backsplash and a big hood thingie which DH wants to design and build himself.  Nothing commercial looking.  It will encase a a proper ventilation system--not the thing we've had lo these many years.  It was a fan that sucked up the smoke and vapors and then blew them back into the room (supposedly filtered but not really).

And, YES!!!, send in those pictures.


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## laurac260 (Apr 8, 2010)

ScoopLV said:


> EDIT -- Let's help Rose out by posting pics of our kitchens!



I have a similar kitchen design, and cannot wait to build a new home and do something totally different.  We bought the house because we loved the look of it, granite counter tops, raised panel cabinets, the next door neighbor owns a design business and did some very beautiful tile work for the backsplash for the original owner.  We added stainess appliances and the kitchen LOOKS fabulous.  But I find it very unfunctional.  I don't like having my stove, sink, and fridge on opposing walls.  I spend alot of time in the kitchen, and find myself doing laps from the stove to the fridge to the sink to the stove.  Stuff that needs to be washed first gets prepped at the sink, stuff that doesn't gets prepped at the stove, so I end up with two messes instead of one.  My last house had an L shaped design, which allowed me to go from the sink to the stove to the fridge without having to criss cross back and forth across the kitchen.  We are looking at building a smaller, more functional home (no more formal this room and that room that no one goes in), and my first task will be to have a kitchen that is less about having the latest "look", and more about having ease of _function_.


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## ScoopKona (Apr 8, 2010)

laurac260 said:


> I have a similar kitchen design, and cannot wait to build a new home and do something totally different.
> .
> .
> .
> I spend alot of time in the kitchen, and find myself doing laps from the stove to the fridge to the sink to the stove.  Stuff that needs to be washed first gets prepped at the sink, stuff that doesn't gets prepped at the stove, so I end up with two messes instead of one.





Mise en place will set you free. Whenever I cook, I assemble absolutely everything I am going to need and put it within arm's reach of where I'm going to need it. Everything is washed, peeled, sliced, diced, etc. and held in ice-water. Knobs of beurre manié are waiting at room temp. So are the proteins. Only _then_ do I start cooking. As things get used, they get tossed in the sink or pushed to the side -- so that no step and no ingredient is forgotten. When necessary, checklists are created and taped to the upper cabinets -- then I check off things as they happen.

If you're running to the fridge often, you're probably sloughing off on prep.


That being said, I don't like the placement of my appliances, either. But I didn't have any say in the matter. We bought this place with the plumbing already in place. So the fridge went there, the range went there, the dishwasher went there and the sink went there. Changing it would cost more money than it's worth.


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## laurac260 (Apr 8, 2010)

ScoopLV said:


> Mise en place will set you free. Whenever I cook, I assemble absolutely everything I am going to need and put it within arm's reach of where I'm going to need it. Everything is washed, peeled, sliced, diced, etc. and held in ice-water. Knobs of beurre manié are waiting at room temp. So are the proteins. Only _then_ do I start cooking. As things get used, they get tossed in the sink or pushed to the side -- so that no step and no ingredient is forgotten. When necessary, checklists are created and taped to the upper cabinets -- then I check off things as they happen.
> 
> If you're running to the fridge often, you're probably sloughing off on prep.
> 
> ...



It's called...I have small kids, so I am interrupted often!


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## Twinkstarr (Apr 8, 2010)

laurac260 said:


> It's called...I have small kids, so I am interrupted often!



Actually I started mise en place when my kids were younger, I would have things lined up and could glance at the cookbook to see where I left off.
I keep doing it with even tried and true stuff I cook all the time. 

I have a cool set of glass bowls from W-S, tiny to very large. The small ones work great for dumping spices, garlic in. Do not ask how many sets of measuring cups and spoons I have. DH does all my washing up, I put the stuff away as he hid my 3/4 cup and 1/2 Tablespoon the other day. :annoyed:


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## pjrose (Apr 8, 2010)

I vote for four burners and more counter space.  I am amazed at how little space you have and will have, and can't imagine having even less.

Scoop, your kitchen is gorgeous - no surprise there!  If I ever clean mine  I'll get a picture up.


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## Passepartout (Apr 8, 2010)

Here's mine. We had to keep within the original 1946 footprint, so it took some creative space-use. Note pan rack above the range, cooking tools behind the sink. There are lazy-susans in both the corner cabinets- glassware above and misc.pans - poacher, wok, saucier, and food processor blades, etc. below. There is an appliance garage in the corner w/blender, food processor, slow cooker plugged in and ready to go.

The microwave is under counter in the second picture. Beside the microwave, on the end of that peninsula is a bookcase for cookbooks... Jim











Note the plates and serving pieces above the counter and coffee service. above.

And here's our wine bar. The cooler holds a modest 18 bottles and the rack beside it about 9. Glassware hangs above and specialty dishes are behind the glass faced doors above. For winter, there's a small garden of fresh, hydroponic basil growing on the counter.  Flow Blue antiques are displayed above.






Jim Ricks


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## DebBrown (Apr 8, 2010)

pjrose said:


> I vote for four burners and more counter space.  I am amazed at how little space you have and will have, and can't imagine having even less.



Me too!  My kitchen used to have a stand alone 30" gas range and a separate 4-burner cooktop.  When I remodeled, I removed the cooktop and now have a long peninsula countertop which is way more useful.  I only miss the extra burners at Thanksgiving.

Deb


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## ScoopKona (Apr 8, 2010)

Passepartout said:


> Here's mine. We had to keep within the original footprint, so it took some creative space-use. Note pan rack above the range, cooking tools behind the sink, and microwave under counter.... Jim



Jim wins best kitchen, I think. Nice collection of pans, there. All-Clad? Or Mauviel?


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## Passepartout (Apr 8, 2010)

ScoopLV said:


> All-Clad? Or Mauviel?



Thanks! A real complement coming from you. Uh, Cuisinart copperclad. $180 from Costco for the whole mess.... Jim


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## laurac260 (Apr 8, 2010)

how again do you post pics?


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## Passepartout (Apr 8, 2010)

laurac260 said:


> how again do you post pics?



Check the 'stickies' at the top of the Lounge.


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## Twinkstarr (Apr 8, 2010)

Passepartout said:


> Thanks! A real complement coming from you. Uh, Cuisinart copperclad. $180 from Costco for the whole mess.... Jim



Really? That's a super deal. Now I'm going to have to make a trip down the pot and pan aisle at Costco now.


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## Rose Pink (Apr 8, 2010)

pjrose said:


> I vote for four burners and more counter space. I am amazed at how little space you have and will have, and can't imagine having even less.


 


DebBrown said:


> Me too! My kitchen used to have a stand alone 30" gas range and a separate 4-burner cooktop. When I remodeled, I removed the cooktop and now have a long peninsula countertop which is way more useful. I only miss the extra burners at Thanksgiving.
> 
> Deb


Too late.  We had to make the decision this morning.  We went on over to the store and looked at the 36-inch, 5 burner.  I put a big pot on it and found that it fit better on the larger, center burner.  It will only cost a little more.  I think giving up 6 inches of counter (really only 3 inches on each side) is worth it.  I definitely will be using the portable island if I start cooking.

Thank you for all the great pictures!


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## Rose Pink (Apr 8, 2010)

Laura and Scoop, if you despise the efficiency of your kitchens, you would hate mine.  As I said in the above post, I will be employing the movable island if I ever cook.


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## Passepartout (Apr 8, 2010)

Twinkstarr said:


> Really? That's a super deal. Now I'm going to have to make a trip down the pot and pan aisle at Costco now.



I think I got them close to 10 years ago. They are loooong gone. A search shows they are discontinued by Cuisinart. Might be worth looking for, though. They have to be around somewhere.  They look pretty cool, but are kinda high maintenance. To make 'em look good, I have to use vinegar and salt on them frequently and once or twice a year, I take 'em outside and spray 'em down with oven cleaner, then clean w/vinegar and salt.
Jim


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## Rose Pink (Apr 8, 2010)

Passepartout said:


> ... They look pretty cool, but are kinda high maintenance. To make 'em look good, I have to use vinegar and salt on them frequently and once or twice a year, I take 'em outside and spray 'em down with oven cleaner, then clean w/vinegar and salt.
> Jim


You work too hard.


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## ScoopKona (Apr 8, 2010)

Passepartout said:


> I think I got them close to 10 years ago. They are loooong gone. A search shows they are discontinued by Cuisinart. Might be worth looking for, though. They have to be around somewhere.  They look pretty cool, but are kinda high maintenance. To make 'em look good, I have to use vinegar and salt on them frequently and once or twice a year, I take 'em outside and spray 'em down with oven cleaner, then clean w/vinegar and salt.
> Jim



Barkeeper's Friend is also really good on copper -- I prefer it to salt and vinegar, ketchup and all the other home-grown polishes.


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## laurac260 (Apr 8, 2010)




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## laurac260 (Apr 8, 2010)

delete this message........


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## Passepartout (Apr 8, 2010)

Very nice, Laura. I'd be afraid to do more than boil water for fear of messing it up. It looks ready for the 'Better Homes & Gardens' photo crew.... Jim


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## Elan (Apr 8, 2010)

My only comment on Laura's kitchen is "You have kids?".   The island in the middle of our kitchen is usually piled high with toys, school work or other assorted "projects".


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## laurac260 (Apr 8, 2010)

Elan said:


> My only comment on Laura's kitchen is "You have kids?".   The island in the middle of our kitchen is usually piled high with toys, school work or other assorted "projects".



Remember, I used to be in catering.  It's all about "presentation"!


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## laurac260 (Apr 8, 2010)

Elan said:


> My only comment on Laura's kitchen is "You have kids?".   The island in the middle of our kitchen is usually piled high with toys, school work or other assorted "projects".








There, is that better?


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## Elan (Apr 8, 2010)

laurac260 said:


> There, is that better?



  Ahhhhhh, home, sweet home.


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## pjrose (Apr 8, 2010)

Passepartout said:


> Here's mine. . . . .  Flow Blue antiques are displayed above.
> 
> Jim Ricks



oooooohhhhh - I just LOVE blue and white.....


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## Rose Pink (Apr 8, 2010)

Laura, I like your brown and white color scheme.  After sampling about 10 paint colors, I finally went with a very soft brown--not as saturated as yours but DH didn't want to go any darker.  I love it.  It is very soothing to me.

I also like placing the tile in the backsplash on point with the small square decorative tiles.  That is a classic look I like. The knobs on my new cabinetry will be square--sort of a coppery black--and I am considering repeating that theme in the backsplash tiles.  I'm not sure yet.  After the granite is in, I will go to a few tile stores and bring home some samples.


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## laurac260 (Apr 9, 2010)

ScoopLV said:


> Mise en place will set you free. .



ok, so I finally sat down this morning to look up this fancy french word you guys were throwing around.   I thought, what am I missing that would make my work so much easier?  

I learned how to cook from an old German woman when I was just a little 3rd grader  and she wasn't speaking french (well...I learned a few "french"words from her, words I often heard spoken in professional kitchens....hmmm). Dad and I would call grandma everyday and she'd walk us thru whatever we were making till we learned how to make it ourself.  I don't think she ever owned measuring cups or spoons, everything was measured by hand.   I also learned from her how to improvise in the kitchen whenever you need to. I never find myself saying "I have nothing to make", when the cupboards are full of food.  I must say, not a bad way to learn.

I have lots and lots of cookbooks, and when I DO get the opportunity to use them I employ that fancy french word  , but most of my cooking these days comes from memory.  DD and DS would live on my homemade chicken pot pie (chicken precooked from a previous night, carrots pre-prepared and bought in a bag, all I do is bias cut them, frozen peas, canned corn...sigh...)  They love pasta but homemade stuff is lost on them, so I used boxed pasta (no sauce, no one eats it but me...bye bye homemade sauce!)  and I jazz it up with some basil, olive oil and grated parm, that's all I am allowed to get away with.   I am slowly getting them to branch out try new things, but unfortunately my gourmet cooking usually only happens these days when it is something I can parcel out more bland pieces for them.   They do appreciate homemade baked goodies though, but you can only eat so much of that.


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## Twinkstarr (Apr 9, 2010)

laurac260 said:


> ok, so I finally sat down this morning to look up this fancy french word you guys were throwing around.   I thought, what am I missing that would make my work so much easier?
> 
> I learned how to cook from an old German woman when I was just a little 3rd grader  and she wasn't speaking french (well...I learned a few "french"words from her, words I often heard spoken in professional kitchens....hmmm). Dad and I would call grandma everyday and she'd walk us thru whatever we were making till we learned how to make it ourself.  I don't think she ever owned measuring cups or spoons, everything was measured by hand.   I also learned from her how to improvise in the kitchen whenever you need to. I never find myself saying "I have nothing to make", when the cupboards are full of food.  I must say, not a bad way to learn.
> 
> I have lots and lots of cookbooks, and when I DO get the opportunity to use them I employ that fancy french word  , but most of my cooking these days comes from memory.  DD and DS would live on my homemade chicken pot pie (chicken precooked from a previous night, carrots pre-prepared and bought in a bag, all I do is bias cut them, frozen peas, canned corn...sigh...)  They love pasta but homemade stuff is lost on them, so I used boxed pasta (no sauce, no one eats it but me...bye bye homemade sauce!)  and I jazz it up with some basil, olive oil and grated parm, that's all I am allowed to get away with.   I am slowly getting them to branch out try new things, but unfortunately my gourmet cooking usually only happens these days when it is something I can parcel out more bland pieces for them.   They do appreciate homemade baked goodies though, but you can only eat so much of that.



Trust me it will help with things you do from memory. I do it all the time with my white clam sauce, baked ziti and the white sauce for pot pie/tetrazzini. 

My kids are older(14/9) and I throw a new recipe at them at least once a week. Somethings stick others don't. Surprisingly they love Cooking Light's Turkey Curry, but I've been using sweet curry sauce. Youngest one would prefer noodles over rice as a side with it though.


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## laurac260 (Apr 9, 2010)

Rose Pink said:


> Laura, I like your brown and white color scheme.  After sampling about 10 paint colors, I finally went with a very soft brown--not as saturated as yours but DH didn't want to go any darker.  I love it.  It is very soothing to me.
> 
> I also like placing the tile in the backsplash on point with the small square decorative tiles.  That is a classic look I like. The knobs on my new cabinetry will be square--sort of a coppery black--and I am considering repeating that theme in the backsplash tiles.  I'm not sure yet.  After the granite is in, I will go to a few tile stores and bring home some samples.



Thanks.  I absolutely love picking out colors and fabrics.   It took me awhile though to find just the right color though, It was hard to find browns that don't go toward yellow or red, which is what I wanted.  If it starts to look pink or yellow I find it to be a real turnoff, atleast for my taste.  Those colors do have their place though, as does every color, which is what makes it so much fun.  I drive my husband crazy with it all, because if I get a color in my head I will go to the paint store and pull hundreds of swatches in every hue of that color and bring them home to hone it down to just those few "perfect matches".  I could do it all day long, for anyone who asks, and be happy as a clam.


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## Rose Pink (Apr 9, 2010)

*We are committed!*

Insane and committed.  We purchased the kitchen appliances today.  No turning back now.  They will be delivered in a few weeks and we must have the room ready for them and the cabinetry.

DH has pulled up  most of the floor and we took that to the landfill a couple of days ago.  Interesting place.  You throw your junk over the edge of a concrete canyon and a large truck comes by and pushes it all the way to the end where it is put into another truck and hauled away to the dumping grounds.

DH is busy doing his manly stuff.  He is cutting a hole through the exterior concrete block and bricks for the hood vent exhaust flue thingie.  I told him to call a concrete cutting company--they can cut out perfectly round holes in a jiffy.  But, no, he must do it himself, because he is a manly man.  His first hammer drill bit the dust so he decided he needed a new one.  I think he takes on these jobs just so he can have an excuse to buy more tools.  Anyway, he gets to the checkout with his new tool and the credit card is locked up for possible fraud.  Seems we've been spending alot lately on appliances and stuff.  He called and got that cleared up and is now back to hammering away.


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## Passepartout (Apr 9, 2010)

Rose Pink said:


> ....he must do it himself, because he is a manly man.  His first hammer drill bit the dust so he decided he needed a new one.  I think he takes on these jobs just so he can have an excuse to buy more tools...



That's how it works around here....Any project worth doing is worth buying more tools. It's a guy thing.

If the marriage survives you'll have a beautiful and functional kitchen. Should we send some SLC Restaurant.com coupons in the meantime?

Jim


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## laurac260 (Apr 9, 2010)

Rose Pink said:


> Insane and committed.  We purchased the kitchen appliances today.  No turning back now.  They will be delivered in a few weeks and we must have the room ready for them and the cabinetry.
> 
> DH has pulled up  most of the floor and we took that to the landfill a couple of days ago.  Interesting place.  You throw your junk over the edge of a concrete canyon and a large truck comes by and pushes it all the way to the end where it is put into another truck and hauled away to the dumping grounds.
> 
> DH is busy doing his manly stuff.  He is cutting a hole through the exterior concrete block and bricks for the hood vent exhaust flue thingie.  I told him to call a concrete cutting company--they can cut out perfectly round holes in a jiffy.  But, no, he must do it himself, because he is a manly man.  His first hammer drill bit the dust so he decided he needed a new one.  I think he takes on these jobs just so he can have an excuse to buy more tools.  Anyway, he gets to the checkout with his new tool and the credit card is locked up for possible fraud.  Seems we've been spending alot lately on appliances and stuff.  He called and got that cleared up and is now back to hammering away.



wow.  You must be so excited.  I'd love to be a do it yourselfer, but I just don't have the guts to do more than painting.  I have an eye for design, but I've gotta have someone else do the handywork.


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## Rose Pink (Apr 10, 2010)

Passepartout said:


> That's how it works around here....Any project worth doing is worth buying more tools. It's a guy thing.
> 
> If the marriage survives you'll have a beautiful and functional kitchen. *Should we send some SLC Restaurant.com coupons in the meantime?*
> 
> Jim


We are trying to eat up the food in the old freezer first so we can move out the old appliance.  The debt is building up so fast that even a half-price restaurant meal is out of the question.  I am not comfortable with debt so this project is making me nervous.  But kitchens are expensive and ours was in pitiful shape.  I heard on HGTV that the average kitchen remodel is 56K. That means some people spend even more than that.  Several years ago I asked a high-end kitchen contractor in Dallas what his average was.  He said $100k.   I remember back when DH thought he could do the whole thing for 5K.  



laurac260 said:


> wow. You must be so excited. I'd love to be a do it yourselfer, but I just don't have the guts to do more than painting. I have an eye for design, but *I've gotta have someone else do the handywork*.


 
Around here, I call him "honey."  I occasionally assist by holding something or handing him something or cleaning up but I am of no use with the technical stuff.  I do get satisfaction seeing this house come together.  I can say "that arch was my idea" and DH gets great satisfaction in saying "I built that arch."

This house was a rental when we bought it.  It had had a very odd remodel done which we have been trying to rectify ever since we moved in.


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## Rose Pink (May 3, 2010)

*Light at the End of the Tunnel*

After an exhausting week of installing the hardwood floor, we were pleased to see the cabinets and appliances arrive today.  Installation is far from complete but at last I can _see_ it instead of just imagining it.  There is still so much more to do and DH has run out of time, so it will be many weeks before the kitchen is completely finished but we have come a long way from where we were.  He will work on it during the weekends.  Even this partially finished kitchen is greatly improved over my old, decaying one.


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