# Maui Ocean Club Full press sales attempt



## mike2200 (Feb 26, 2014)

We are currently at Maui Ocean Club and received the usual inquiry about taking an owners update one hour meeting with the sales staff for a gift. As we have over the last six years done this and found it somewhat informative and Not a full press sales job, we signed up again. 

WHAT A MISTAKE. We received a full press sale attempt, with threats if we didn't take a tour of the new tower we wouldn't receive our "gift" we explained we had seen the new unit previously and didn't need to but again we're told this is the NEW Marriott procedure. Our Sales person (and he was truly only trying to sell us points) said "why do you come to this sales presentation if you aren't going to buy!??" We stated cause Marriott contacts us numerous times and ask us to attend, stating it's an owner update on what's new at our property. He said it doesn't matter that you aren't interested in buying any points I am going over this with you anyway and then you'll get your "gift". He also threatened that Marriott will not call anymore if you don't buy and you will be blacklisted.

We also went to a salesroom and our sales person said he had to have his sales manager also tell us about the benefit of points, AGAIN we said we're not going to buy any points. The manager came in we told him right off we didn't want any points and he ended the sales press.

This was our worst presentation we have ever attended from Marriott and will not be signing up again.

Has anyone else experienced a change in Marriott's approach on these "owner update" meetings?


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## Saintsfanfl (Feb 26, 2014)

*Blacklisted....*

I was contacted by Marketing last July for a presentation at Oceana but it was a unit that I was renting at Ocean Pointe. The marketing person still wanted to set me up for a presentation later in November when I would be there. I explained what I do and the zero chance of a sale and the marketing person said it was their job to set up as many as they can and an owner is allowed to attend as many as they want. I explained that the sales people aren't overjoyed to do a sales pitch to me even though it remains pleasant and they were not happy that a salesperson has ever said "why are you here?". 

Low and behold that presentation was cancelled without any notice being given to me. Marketing never phoned me while at the resort and I was not even referred to the marketing desk 20 feet away for the free gift. No marketing calls have ever been attempted since whether it is to my personal phone or while at a resort stay.

I suppose there is something in the system that shows me as blacklisted. I have sold directly to Marriott or sold brokered by Marriott several weeks but I have never purchased anything from them. 

Good riddance in my opinion. Sometimes I have a hard time saying no to 20,000 points when they beg several different ways. I would probably still take one if they asked but I have never and will never contact them for a presentation.


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## BocaBoy (Feb 26, 2014)

I have no problem with them requiring you to take a tour of a unit, although I do sometimes wonder why they do this when you have already seen one.  After all, you signed up for their sales presentation so you have to let them present what they want.  Often the sales reps are required to spend at least a certain amount of time with you and a tour of a unit is a good way for them to kill some time when they are with a "customer" who is clearly not going to buy anything.

On the other hand, I think the biggest problem with the system is that the marketing people are evaluated on how many "prospects" they sign up for the tours, while the sales reps are evaluated on the number of sales they make.  Therefore, one part of MVCI (marketing) is hurting another part (sales) when they sign up people who clearly do not want to purchase.  The sales people can't complain to marketing so the customers get the brunt of their frustration.  I am not defending the sales tactics (I hate them) but just trying to explain the main factors that I think explain a lot of it.


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## Fasttr (Feb 26, 2014)

BocaBoy said:


> I have no problem with them requiring you to take a tour of a unit, although I do sometimes wonder why they do this when you have already seen one.  After all, you signed up for their sales presentation so you have to let them present what they want.  Often the sales reps are required to spend at least a certain amount of time with you and a tour of a unit is a good way for them to kill some time when they are with a "customer" who is clearly not going to buy anything.
> 
> On the other hand, I think the biggest problem with the system is that the marketing people are evaluated on how many "prospects" they sign up for the tours, while the sales reps are evaluated on the number of sales they make.  Therefore, one part of MVCI (marketing) is hurting another part (sales) when they sign up people who clearly do not want to purchase.  The sales people can't complain to marketing so the customers get the brunt of their frustration.  I am not defending the sales tactics (I hate them) but just trying to explain the main factors that I think explain a lot of it.



I agree.  That said, I'm sure there are a certain percentage of those "I am not going to buy anything" folks that do end up buying, so in the end, its a numbers game, the more they pitch, the more they sell.  If the marketing folks keep the funnel filled, the sales folks can work their magic.  Its hard to get mad at somebody for doing their job....they are there to sell you.  I always get a kick out of folks who get mad because they feel the "hard sell" was put on them.  If somebody really just wants an update, ask for one with no gift attached and you will likely get a much softer "update" if that is what you really want.


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## jme (Feb 26, 2014)

I never have a problem doing the tours if the gift is something from which I will benefit...... i.e., sometimes DC points, Rewards Points, sometimes a nice gift card for dining----$100 to $125, whatever.

The perceived pressure thing expressed by attendees I just don't get......Pressure or not, I know the pressure is NOT on me. It's quite easy to say no, and if I have to rephrase it several times, that's just fine. And I smile the whole time. I haven't bought any DC points (only enrolled) and never will.

We always do the first tour of the morning, meet and greet and have fun discussing whatever, and then we get our gift and exit, heading straight for a wonderful breakfast or brunch, and the tour is longggggg forgotten. 

90 minutes is a blink, nothing more. Keep the gifts coming, we'll do 'em every time they'll allow it.


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## mike2200 (Feb 26, 2014)

Fasttr said:


> I agree.  That said, I'm sure there are a certain percentage of those "I am not going to buy anything" folks that do end up buying, so in the end, its a numbers game, the more they pitch, the more they sell.  If the marketing folks keep the funnel filled, the sales folks can work their magic.  Its hard to get mad at somebody for doing their job....they are there to sell you.  I always get a kick out of folks who get mad because they feel the "hard sell" was put on them.  If somebody really just wants an update, ask for one with no gift attached and you will likely get a much softer "update" if that is what you really want.



I am not mad as I stated we have done the "update tour" 6 previous times and this was the 1st time we felt it was a full press sale!  Their job isn't to make you feel uncomfortable, you are already an owner. 
This was offered as a yearly update on what Marriott has new and what's new at the property. The update was offered with a gift as stated by the welcome desk! And we were clear to the sales person we wanted updates on the property.


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## Quadmaniac (Feb 26, 2014)

mike2200 said:


> We are currently at Maui Ocean Club and received the usual inquiry about taking an owners update one hour meeting with the sales staff for a gift. As we have over the last six years done this and found it somewhat informative and Not a full press sales job, we signed up again.
> 
> WHAT A MISTAKE. We received a full press sale attempt, with threats if we didn't take a tour of the new tower we wouldn't receive our "gift" we explained we had seen the new unit previously and didn't need to but again we're told this is the NEW Marriott procedure. Our Sales person (and he was truly only trying to sell us points) said "why do you come to this sales presentation if you aren't going to buy!??" We stated cause Marriott contacts us numerous times and ask us to attend, stating it's an owner update on what's new at our property. He said it doesn't matter that you aren't interested in buying any points I am going over this with you anyway and then you'll get your "gift"
> 
> ...



I had a similar experience at the Grand Chateau and I told them that I came to stop the constant calls. Not my fault, person on the phone was insisting.

At Ko Olina, the sales rep said he had to keep us for that time, I said fine up to you. He started to explain a few things and found out I knew more than he does about the program. It was a bust for him so ended up discussing a few travel experiences.

Haven't been blacklisted yet.


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## mike2200 (Feb 26, 2014)

BocaBoy said:


> I have no problem with them requiring you to take a tour of a unit, although I do sometimes wonder why they do this when you have already seen one.  After all, you signed up for their sales presentation so you have to let them present what they want.  Often the sales reps are required to spend at least a certain amount of time with you and a tour of a unit is a good way for them to kill some time when they are with a "customer" who is clearly not going to buy anything.
> 
> On the other hand, I think the biggest problem with the system is that the marketing people are evaluated on how many "prospects" they sign up for the tours, while the sales reps are evaluated on the number of sales they make.  Therefore, one part of MVCI (marketing) is hurting another part (sales) when they sign up people who clearly do not want to purchase.  The sales people can't complain to marketing so the customers get the brunt of their frustration.  I am not defending the sales tactics (I hate them) but just trying to explain the main factors that I think explain a lot of it.



There is no excuse for rude behavior and pressure tactics, which we have never had before. Also being threatened with being removed from being offered a gift for taking the update meeting.


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## bastroum (Feb 26, 2014)

We've had both low pressure and high pressure updates at MOC over the years. The problem is caused by the appointment called an "owners update". Although they do update you (some items are true some are false), it is first and foremost A SALES PRESENTATION. Their job is to SELL POINTS. No one should be surprised. So I only go when I want the gift and put up with the nonsense. If you are a TUG member you already know more than the salesperson. My advice, don't argue, speak very little, collect your gift and go back to the pool. 

I have sold life insurance for 35 years. It is a difficult sale. You need to talk to a lot of people. The reason they sign up EVERYBODY is, you can never pre-judge who will buy. So you need to talk to everyone. I'm sure Marriott MAKES the salesperson keep you there for 90 minutes because once you leave without signing a contract the sales rate is ZERO PERCENT. There is no downside (for the salesperson) to pressuring you. Once you understand their motivation it is more amusing than irritating.


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## Quadmaniac (Feb 26, 2014)

This is the thing, what benefit is it to them to keep you there for 90 min if you are not going to buy ? It does not change the situation and they could be doing something else/catching up rather than sit in a room with people for 90 min to get zip.


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## bastroum (Feb 26, 2014)

Quadmaniac said:


> This is the thing, what benefit is it to them to keep you there for 90 min if you are not going to buy ? It does not change the situation and they could be doing something else/catching up rather than sit in a room with people for 90 min to get zip.



You know your not going to buy. They don't. Research tells them if you leave you will not buy, therefore they keep you there for 90 minutes. They have no motivation to let you leave earlier. Remember, they only have appointments set so often. Now if someone was waiting to see them, it would be a different story. You could leave and they could start selling to someone else. They only make money when they sell. They make no money "catching up".


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## Fasttr (Feb 26, 2014)

Quadmaniac said:


> This is the thing, what benefit is it to them to keep you there for 90 min if you are not going to buy ? It does not change the situation and they could be doing something else/catching up rather than sit in a room with people for 90 min to get zip.



The "gift" they are giving you is your compensation for sitting there for 90 minutes.  Would it be fair to them (or smart of them for that matter) to allow folks to show up, tell them they are not going to buy, and grab their gift in exchange for 15 minutes of chit chat?  VAC's stock wouldn't be as successful as it is if that were how they sold.  Its pretty simple, you suffer through 90 minutes, they give you a prize, and during that process, a certain number of fish will be pulled into the boat!!!


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## Quadmaniac (Feb 26, 2014)

Fasttr said:


> The "gift" they are giving you is your compensation for sitting there for 90 minutes.  Would it be fair to them (or smart of them for that matter) to allow folks to show up, tell them they are not going to buy, and grab their gift in exchange for 15 minutes of chit chat?  VAC's stock wouldn't be as successful as it is if that were how they sold.  Its pretty simple, you suffer through 90 minutes, they give you a prize, and during that process, a certain number of fish will be pulled into the boat!!!



Absolute it is their right to do it, but does it create goodwill ? Have to think, it is not just their time during that appointment, but what the client will spend at the resort while they are there now. Pissing someone off only goes to hurt themselves rather than help the situation right ? I am not suggesting 15 min, but prolonging the situation to the full 90 min makes it seem very childish and unprofessional. If someone doesn't want to buy and they've given their presentation, then they had their opportunity, so cut your losses.


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## Quadmaniac (Feb 26, 2014)

bastroum said:


> You know your not going to buy. They don't. Research tells them if you leave you will not buy, therefore they keep you there for 90 minutes. They have no motivation to let you leave earlier. Remember, they only have appointments set so often. Now if someone was waiting to see them, it would be a different story. You could leave and they could start selling to someone else. They only make money when they sell. They make no money "catching up".



No when they have someone there that knows the "routine" the jig is up. You can tell when someone can be influenced and when they can not. If they can't sense that, they need to listen and look at body language more.


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## bastroum (Feb 26, 2014)

Quadmaniac said:


> Absolute it is their right to do it, but does it create goodwill ? Have to think, it is not just their time during that appointment, but what the client will spend at the resort while they are there now. Pissing someone off only goes to hurt themselves rather than help the situation right ? I am not suggesting 15 min, but prolonging the situation to the full 90 min makes it seem very childish and unprofessional. If someone doesn't want to buy and they've given their presentation, then they had their opportunity, so cut your losses.



I'm pretty sure the Developer T/S salespeople could care less about creating "Goodwill". They care about selling you points. Nobody has ever bought a point package because of goodwill. It's just not a motivation from Developer's sales team. Now nobody has ever accused these people of being professional....


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## Quadmaniac (Feb 26, 2014)

bastroum said:


> I'm pretty sure the Developer T/S salespeople could care less about creating "Goodwill". They care about selling you points. Nobody has ever bought a point package because of goodwill. It's just not a motivation from Developer's sales team. Now nobody has ever accused these people of being professional....



I know that if they piss me off and do that, the next time I will pull out my headphones and watch Netflix or Youtube for 90 min. If someone wants to be an ass, I am happy to accommodate them - they are not the only ones who can be a smart ass or if they really tick me off, start speaking really loud about resales and how much a rip off points are. I'm sure they would like me there for 90 min like that :hysterical::hysterical::hysterical:


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## taffy19 (Feb 26, 2014)

Fasttr said:


> I agree. That said, I'm sure there are a certain percentage of those "I am not going to buy anything" folks that do end up buying, so in the end, its a numbers game, the more they pitch, the more they sell. If the marketing folks keep the funnel filled, the sales folks can work their magic. Its hard to get mad at somebody for doing their job....they are there to sell you. I always get a kick out of folks who get mad because they feel the "hard sell" was put on them. If somebody really just wants an update, ask for one with no gift attached and you will likely get a much softer "update" if that is what you really want.


This is so true because we bought two Marriott timeshares that way. Our friends had bought at the DSV-I and told us about it and how nice it was. This was many years ago so we decided to go and see it too and ended up buying DSV-II.  We had absolutely no intention to buy there.

 Our friends had told us that they had a fireplace so when we thought about it that evening, we didn't remember seeing a fireplace in the model so went back to the sales office the next day. We ended up rescinding our contract and buying a re-sale in DSV-I for $1,000 less. We loved it but making reservations was very hard for a single week owner. 

 Years later, we went to see the Maui Ocean Club and they were trying to sell us there but we said that we didn't like floating units so they upgraded us to the fixed week/unit we still own today. It is sitting there and waiting for us on March 22. Needless to say, we like fixed week/units and still do today!


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## larryallen (Feb 26, 2014)

I have done the tours many times but I leave almost every one regretting the time waste. I don't care what I get. Other than the time at the Four Seasons we got $200 gift cert each (as we weren't married and lived apart) and a Tiffany candy dish! Other than that it has not been worth my time. The last one at Ko Olina was under an hour so not bad but still not worth it to me. The guy was nice, we said no, he said ok, and there you have it. Didn't even leave his office. However, still not worth it.  I am much happier in the years I convince my wife not to sign us up for the tour. You have to plan your day around it whether an hour or two. I like to have no appointments when I am on vacation. I have appointments every day when I am at work. The worst was Westin Maui, a couple years ago, which was a grueling and exhausting time. Next time I stay at Westin Maui I will definitely not waste my time.


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## mike2200 (Feb 26, 2014)

My OP was stating the fact that it seems that the 60 minute update for owners has been changed to a hard sell effort, which in my experience it wasn't previously. And the sales rep are now encouraged (?) to use threat tactics to control the meeting... ( such as blacklisting) and blunt sarcastic comments or questions...

So yes, thank you but we will pass on any future updates from the sales staff and share our negative experience on the update/sales pitch offered my Marriott to our friends and family...


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## gblotter (Feb 26, 2014)

*Blacklisted*

Our most recent sales presentation was at Timber Lodge last August.  The salesperson said that our history of attending presentations without buying anything would now result in us being blacklisted from future presentations.

Our next trip (this time to Maui Ocean Club) is coming up next month.  We'll see what actually happens with the blacklisting.  In the past I have always been open to taking their free 'gifts', but I'm fine if they never call again (especially if they are now being very aggressive).  Maui Ocean Club used to be known for their soft-sell approach.


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## MOXJO7282 (Feb 26, 2014)

I'll be interested to see if they offer us a presentation when we go to Maui in July as I wasn't offered a presentation last year at Newport Coast because of my history of resale purchases. 

I've never have a problem attending these presentations for the points and don't ever seem to get a hard sell. I don't volunteer I would never consider buying points because its not true. If they were to allow me to get into the DC program with all my pre June 2010 units I would buy 2000 points. They've never accepted my offer so I've never bought any points.


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## m61376 (Feb 26, 2014)

MOXJO7282 said:


> I'll be interested to see if they offer us a presentation when we go to Maui in July as I wasn't offered a presentation last year at Newport Coast because of my history of resale purchases.
> 
> I've never have a problem attending these presentations for the points and don't ever seem to get a hard sell. I don't volunteer I would never consider buying points because its not true. If they were to allow me to get into the DC program with all my pre June 2010 units I would buy 2000 points. They've never accepted my offer so I've never bought any points.



They'd be happy to enroll your pre-June 2010 units and take your money for 2000 points. It's those post June 2010 units that they won't take


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## capjak (Feb 26, 2014)

I just went to Hyatt Maui sales presentation it was over in 60 minutes once I said that I was not going to buy and did not want to waste any more time, He said so you are done?  We said yes, he said no problem let's get  your gift and on your way.....and that is exactly what happened...very low pressure sales.


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## sea&ski (Feb 26, 2014)

*offer your youngest...*

At Grand Chateau, I offered the person scheduling the presentation my youngest child (really, they are not that young but unmarried and in grad school) because we were off to something else and this child was legit in our unit.  Ha!  We were given the gift du jour, a really lovely online photo album offer, and left alone.  I value this photo book way more than I would have the $100 gift card going towards food or some such.  I would not hesitate to do this again (poor child) but never will I attend another 'presentation'.


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## dioxide45 (Feb 26, 2014)

No one, and I repeat NO ONE! goes to a presentation planning to buy. Okay, that is a little inside joke. But the reality is that a lot of people go saying they aren't going to buy and walk out owning shiny new trust points. MVCI knows this and they know it is all about the numbers.

They can't have the marketing people ask people if they want to buy and only sign up those that are interested because the sales office would be a ghost town. It is all about the numbers. 1 out of 7 buys, they know this, the more 7s they churn through the more sales they get.

Perhaps they could do a better job at profiling their prospects, but I am not going to complain.  They keep offering and we keep touring. Have been through many presentations that go through the full spectrum of no pressure 20 minutes to 20 hours hammering away. It is what it is and we know it is a craps shoot going in. We have every time walked out with our wallets still in tact.

The whole "Owners Update" is a sham as is the whole "concierge" position. Their main goal is to sell new points.


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## bastroum (Feb 26, 2014)

Just curious...

Like many people I go on presentations with no intention of purchasing anything. Once in a great while I have questions about changes in the various programs, but mostly I go for free golf, $200 Resort credit, 200 DC points or 15,000 to 20,000 MRP's. 

If one has no intention of buying, why do people go to the presentations and subject yourself to a potentially bad experience?


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## dioxide45 (Feb 26, 2014)

bastroum said:


> Just curious...
> 
> Like many people I go on presentations with no intention of purchasing anything. Once in a great while I have questions about changes in the various programs, but mostly I go for free golf, $200 Resort credit, 200 DC points or 15,000 to 20,000 MRP's.
> 
> If one has no intention of buying, why do people go to the presentations and subject yourself to a potentially bad experience?



Because I have the intention of scoring the $200 Resort credit, 200 DC points or 15,000 to 20,000 MRP's. They are the one asking me, I am not asking them.


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## bastroum (Feb 26, 2014)

dioxide45 said:


> Because I have the intention of scoring the $200 Resort credit, 200 DC points or 15,000 to 20,000 MRP's. They are the one asking me, I am not asking them.



And I thought I was the only one!!!


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## Fasttr (Feb 26, 2014)

That's what makes the complaints all that more perplexing to me.....people go for the gift....but then seem shocked that the sales peeps try to sell them something.  A definite disconnect.

And as for "hard sell", I have seen a few Marriott sales peeps a bit more aggressive than others, but I'm sure when compared to a pitch at Westgate....nobody at a Marriott pitch has come close to seeing a true high pressure sales pitch.


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## dioxide45 (Feb 26, 2014)

Fasttr said:


> That's what makes the complaints all that more perplexing to me.....people go for the gift....but then seem shocked that the sales peeps try to sell them something.  A definite disconnect.



I don't think that people are surprised that the sales person is trying to sell them something. I think people are surprised by the additional sales pressure we are seeing from MVCI. What used to be a laid back sales attempt has definitely been ramped up. I have seen if get more intense over the years, though a lot still depends on the rep you get.


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## Fasttr (Feb 26, 2014)

dioxide45 said:


> I don't think that people are surprised that the sales person is trying to sell them something. I think people are surprised by the additional sales pressure we are seeing from MVCI. What used to be a laid back sales attempt has definitely been ramped up. I have seen if get more intense over the years, though a lot still depends on the rep you get.



When it comes right down to it, the pressure is self induced.  Short of the "fear" of giving up the the coveted prize at the end, you are free to get up and walk out at any point in the presentation.  There is really no pressure, other than what you perceive.


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## bastroum (Feb 26, 2014)

Fasttr said:


> When it comes right down to it, the pressure is self induced.  Short of the "fear" of giving up the the coveted prize at the end, you are free to get up and walk out at any point in the presentation.  There is really no pressure, other than what you perceive.



Totally agree. At MOC last year we had a very pleasant "Owners Update". In and out in 45 minutes. The previous year was so bad I posted about it. I'm in sales and I'll never understand an aggressive (borderline rude) sales presentation. My guess is the salesperson had a bad day (personally or business) and they are frustrated, taking it out on the person in front of them.


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## Fasttr (Feb 26, 2014)

I'm like you guys, I go for the free stuff, and figure they are asking me, I am not asking them, so I don't feel guilty not buying anything (even though one day I did  ).

That said, the only borderline experience I had was a year ago at Grande Vista.  My daughter had a softball game so I booked the first slot in the morning and told them I had to be out in 90 minutes to be able to get to Clermont to my daughters game.  So as 90 minutes was nearing, I reminded them....and at 90 minutes, I knew I still had the "manager" and the "closer" to get through, so I simply said I had to leave, got up and walked out without my Disney bucks.  

I have to say, they made it "right" without me doing a single thing, as when I returned to the room later that day, an envelope had been slid under our door with the Disney bucks in it and an apology note.

To me, the Disney bucks weren't motivation enough to miss my daughters game, so I simply got up and walked.  No pressure....I was a little pissed off at the time for their not adhering to the 90 minute promise....but never felt pressure.


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## mike2200 (Feb 26, 2014)

dioxide45 said:


> I don't think that people are surprised that the sales person is trying to sell them something. I think people are surprised by the additional sales pressure we are seeing from MVCI. What used to be a laid back sales attempt has definitely been ramped up. I have seen if get more intense over the years, though a lot still depends on the rep you get.



My OP was only asking/ stating that they (Marriott) seemed to be using a hard press to sell and we hadn't had that before. Wanted to know if others felt that Marriott had turned up the heat.

We are quite able to say no or walk away....and the only surprise was the apparent NEW Marriott pressure/threats!!!


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## bastroum (Feb 26, 2014)

mike2200 said:


> My OP was only asking/ stating that they (Marriott) seemed to be using a hard press to sell and we hadn't had that before. Wanted to know if others felt that Marriott had turned up the heat.
> 
> We are quite able to say no or walk away....and the only surprise was the apparent NEW Marriott pressure/threats!!!



I don't think it's new. Like I said in 2012 I had an over the top, extreme high pressure, unpleasant update at MOC. Then in 2013 it was low key no pressure and very pleasant. I just think it's the luck of the draw in combination with whatever this weeks sales strategy meeting had for new closing tactics.


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## BocaBoy (Feb 27, 2014)

mike2200 said:


> There is no excuse for rude behavior and pressure tactics, which we have never had before. Also being threatened with being removed from being offered a gift for taking the update meeting.



I agree.  I was not defending those tactics...in fact, my post said I hate them.


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## BocaBoy (Feb 27, 2014)

Quadmaniac said:


> This is the thing, what benefit is it to them to keep you there for 90 min if you are not going to buy ? It does not change the situation and they could be doing something else/catching up rather than sit in a room with people for 90 min to get zip.



The sales person can't normally make the decision to let you go before a certain period of time is up.  Their job requirements include keeping you for a certain length of time.  Otherwise, they are perceived internally as  not trying hard enough to make a sale.


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## dougp26364 (Feb 27, 2014)

I think sometimes they work to make the experience unpleasant if they sense or see that you have a habit of wasting their time for the gifts. If you make the experience unpleasant enough, you'll stop wasting their time. 

It works for us. While I could care less my wife gets offended and refuses to go most of the time. About the only time we go is if I have questions or if there's something I want to see. Even then it's difficult to get my wife to agree. 

I can't tell you the number of times we've been told we'll never be offered the opportunity to attend a presentation again. Of course they're ALWAYS asking us to attend just one more presentation and, they're always offering gifts. After all these years we're still not on any blacklist that a salesman has mentioned.


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## Fasttr (Feb 27, 2014)

There is a lot of psychology that goes into designing these pitches.  I found this article to be interesting as it explains a lot of the "why" behind what they do....and also interestingly shows how certain things, although successful for closing some folks, may actually turn off others if not done correctly.  

My favorite excerpt is the following surrounding the psychology of the gift:



> One of the recent insights I’ve gained into consumer purchase behavior relates to loss. Essentially, people have a greater fear of losing than excitement over gaining something new. As outlined in Predictably Irrational by Dan Ariely, people are more motivated to take an action based on potential loss of something existing, than gaining something they do not currently possess. My primary motivation to attend these types of sales presentations is for some sort of desirable gift, followed by personal interest as a marketing professional, regarding current sales strategies employed in the field. My Puerta Vallarta experience demonstrated how effective this strategy can be: I was committed to completing the presentation, for fear of losing the $60 Dolphin Adventure tickets and $200 cash if I didn’t see it through. The reason is because these gifts were positioned as mine to lose vs. gain.


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## Saintsfanfl (Feb 27, 2014)

dougp26364 said:


> I think sometimes they work to make the experience unpleasant if they sense or see that you have a habit of wasting their time for the gifts. If you make the experience unpleasant enough, you'll stop wasting their time.
> 
> It works for us. While I could care less my wife gets offended and refuses to go most of the time. About the only time we go is if I have questions or if there's something I want to see. Even then it's difficult to get my wife to agree.
> 
> I can't tell you the number of times we've been told we'll never be offered the opportunity to attend a presentation again. Of course they're ALWAYS asking us to attend just one more presentation and, they're always offering gifts. After all these years we're still not on any blacklist that a salesman has mentioned.



I wonder what I did. I know I told them all the timeshares I have bought on ebay and I even sold a few back to Marriott. I think they may have put down that I run a business and it's not personal. The truth is that it is definitely personal and I only do the side stuff to supplement part of the maintenance fees, but I would never buy anything directly from them except for maybe the resale department.


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## mike2200 (Feb 27, 2014)

Fasttr said:


> When it comes right down to it, the pressure is self induced.  Short of the "fear" of giving up the the coveted prize at the end, you are free to get up and walk out at any point in the presentation.  There is really no pressure, other than what you perceive.




No their can be pressure applied and in my case (OP) there was and also a degree of rudeness and threat. Yes you can get up and walkout. But my original comments were I have not had this from Marriott before and questioned if perhaps it was a new tact.

There are people if they knew this was the approach by Marriott wouldn't attend the "update"


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## pacman (Feb 27, 2014)

This is a great thread, and underlines the main reasons why I never go to the "owner updates", or, even worse, a sales presentations. We don't even go to the concierge to pick up our "free gift" when arriving.  My time is way too valuable to waste on any of this.  I, too, am at the Marriott Maui Ocean Club right now, and just smile nicely and say hi to the guys at the sales booths when passing.


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## Fasttr (Feb 27, 2014)

mike2200 said:


> No their can be pressure applied and in my case (OP) there was and also a degree of rudeness and threat. Yes you can get up and walkout. But my original comments were I have not had this from Marriott before and questioned if perhaps it was a new tact.
> 
> There are people if they knew this was the approach by Marriott wouldn't attend the "update"



I hear what you are saying.  From my perspective, the biggest disconnect was your perception that this would be a laid back "owners update" when all of these are really "sales pitches".  The person who signs folks up will call it different things to make it sound less like a sales pitch, as likely their sign up percentage is better that way.  But for the sales people, its a sales pitch, no ifs and or buts about it.  That's how they get paid...based on sales.  

As for the rudeness, as others have said, that could be a bad sales person, or a decent person just having a bad day, or they reacted unprofessionally because of the pressure they have on them to sell to make money.  Perhaps they were on the verge of losing their job if they didn't close X number of sales that week.  Who knows.  But hopefully the system weans out those exhibiting unprofessional or rude behavior.  I totally agree that is unacceptable.  

As for the concept of a "threat"....like in the article I posted a few posts above, the fact that in your mind, the prize was already yours, and you might lose it made you feel that it was a threat, and your fear of losing it made you take the tour.  In reality, the ultimate decision to view the room in the new tower was 100% up to you (with the prize hanging in the balance of that decision of course ) They are betting that the psychology of the prize will keep you there for the entire length of the presentation, and with that comes the hope that eventually you will get tired of saying no...and perhaps they can convince you of making that be a yes.  A good salesperson never stops at the word "no".  They are trained to believe a "no" is a "maybe" and they are trained to sell through the objection in hopes they can convince you to buy.  

I believe that if you can better understand why they are doing what they are doing, you can treat these like many of us do and take as many free gifts as they will keep giving you without feeling pressured or upset along the way.  The way I see it, its all a frame of mind.  I sort of get a kick out of watching for the different sales techniques they try to use along the way. 

All that said, I think the days of a true "owners update" are long gone.  The short answer to your OP is yes....times have changed and so have MVC's techniques.


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## SpikeMauler (Feb 27, 2014)

This was my experience a few years ago
http://tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=131409

Haven't gone to one since


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## Swice (Feb 27, 2014)

*Brand image*

My wife and I went on our first Marriott timeshare presentation on our honeymoon in Hawaii 16 years ago.    The sales lady was so easy going and honest.   When she found out we flew on FF tickets and were staying in suites on Marriott points, and that both my wife and I traveled in our jobs, she said, "you don't need one of these now, but you may in the future.  I have to keep you for a certain amount of time so let me show you a unit."   Because of her attitude, we walked out and said to ourselves that if we ever decided to buy a timeshare, it would be through Marriott.   

We ended up buying (direct through Marriott) about four years later.   

Over the years, we have attended our share of presentations and we were true believers and proudly recommended a Marriott timeshare to anyone who would listen.   ((We LOVE our Ocean Watch resort at Myrtle Beach, but we are not fans of "Myrtle Beach."       ))

But things have changed... there is pressure now.   Some sales reps over the past couple of years have been great.   Others, shall I say, haven't been very bright.    We are no longer quick to accept an "invitation."   We will still go when we need a break from the sun or if our kids want a lazy morning in front of the TV-- and of course depending on what the incentive is.   

I admit, there have been times we have picked up a tip from one of the sale reps.   

But I think the discussion about pressure and incentives really overlooks what bothers people the most (at least the legacy owners).    

None of us are fools and most owners have traditionally been (are) successful professionals in our careers.    We understand sales, marketing and the fact that Marriott timeshares are a business.   I think what impacts us the most is the realization that what we had/bought into no longer exists.    We thought OUR Marriott timeshare company was different from all of the others.    We were under the impression that it was a cut above-- a classy organization that treated us with respect and attracted more people like "us" for customers.     


We are now mad that our illusion has been destroyed.   There's no difference in our timeshare now than the company down the beach -- except we get "status" when we check into a Marriott hotel.    

Our old Marriott timeshare company used to be a Lexus-- We walked into the showroom on a red carpet, an educated/professional looking/acting associate would offer us warm cookies and seat us in leather reclining chairs, we would get a loaner while our car was being repaired instead of sitting on hard chairs with the masses at the "other" dealerships.     We thought our car was better.  Yes, a few of the finishes are nicer on the Lexus (wood grain dash instead of plastic), but what we really have is a Toyota (even though in our minds it is a "Lexus").    Right now, people still want to drive a Lexus... but as soon as they take away the professional associates and replace them with the slick Willy types and stop serving the warm cookies and the loaner cars are not "free" anymore, then drivers will realize they're really driving "just a Toyota."    When that happens, Lexus won't be "special" anymore -- and the desired customers will slowly stop recommending--  

I just hope we don't wake up from our nap and find the pool deck at our resort is starting to look like a Carnival cruise ship instead of Holland America.      Can you move your 50-empty beer cans out of my way?   We're trying to go enter the hairy chest contest?


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## mjkkb2 (Feb 27, 2014)

Swice said:


> Our old Marriott timeshare company used to be a Lexus-- We walked into the showroom on a red carpet, an educated/professional looking/acting associate would offer us warm cookies and seat us in leather reclining chairs, we would get a loaner while our car was being repaired instead of sitting on hard chairs with the masses at the "other" dealerships.     We thought our car was better.  Yes, a few of the finishes are nicer on the Lexus (wood grain dash instead of plastic), but what we really have is a Toyota (even though in our minds it is a "Lexus").    Right now, people still want to drive a Lexus... but as soon as they take away the professional associates and replace them with the slick Willy types and stop serving the warm cookies and the loaner cars are not "free" anymore, then drivers will realize they're really driving "just a Toyota."    When that happens, Lexus won't be "special" anymore -- and the desired customers will slowly stop



I like your analogy


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## Fasttr (Feb 27, 2014)

From VAC's Q4 and full year 2013 financial release from this morning.....



> North America
> VPG increased 6.8 percent to $3,103 in the fourth quarter of 2013 from $2,904 in the fourth quarter of 2012, driven by higher pricing and *improved closing efficiency*. Total North America contract sales were $186 million in the fourth quarter of 2013, an increase of $22 million over the prior year period, including approximately $9 million related to the additional week in the quarter.



VPG is Volume (or Value) per Guest, which means that for every couple that takes a tour (those that buy + those that don't) Marriott's average sale per tour given during Q4 2013 equaled $3,103.  I bolded the words *improved closing efficiency* above, as that is clearly the desired byproduct of the ratcheting up of the "pressure" discussed in this thread.  As discussed in posts above, its a numbers game and from a purely sales perspective, looking at their results, they are getting better at it all the time.


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## mike2200 (Feb 28, 2014)

mjkkb2 said:


> I like your analogy



"VPG is Volume (or Value) per Guest, which means that for every couple that takes a tour (those that buy + those that don't) Marriott's average sale per tour given during Q4 2013 equaled $3,103. I bolded the words improved closing efficiency above, as that is clearly the desired byproduct of the ratcheting up of the "pressure" discussed in this thread. As discussed in posts above, its a numbers game and from a purely sales perspective, looking at their results, they are getting better at it all the time."

Yes it has become a volume business VS a people business...

And I believe in the long run Marriott will end up paying dearly for the attitude change!!!


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## dioxide45 (Feb 28, 2014)

mike2200 said:


> "VPG is Volume (or Value) per Guest, which means that for every couple that takes a tour (those that buy + those that don't) Marriott's average sale per tour given during Q4 2013 equaled $3,103. I bolded the words improved closing efficiency above, as that is clearly the desired byproduct of the ratcheting up of the "pressure" discussed in this thread. As discussed in posts above, its a numbers game and from a purely sales perspective, looking at their results, they are getting better at it all the time."
> 
> Yes it has become a volume business VS a people business...



So me going to get my free gift actually makes them ~$3000. They should be happy to have me, we are an integral part of the equation.



> And I believe in the long run Marriott will end up paying dearly for the attitude change!!!



Perhaps, as someone else stated, their goal is to irritate and drive away the "career" tour people. That would drive them away in hopes of getting in more prospects.

I think it would be unlikely that they would blacklist a current MVCI owners. Perhaps it is possible. Though more likely that they would blacklist a non owner who has taken many tours without purchasing.


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## Fasttr (Feb 28, 2014)

dioxide45 said:


> So me going to get my free gift actually makes them ~$3000. They should be happy to have me, we are an integral part of the equation.



That's the way I look at it....by me saying "no" and walking away with my 20K MR points, I am actually helping them get to the next "yes".


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## bastroum (Feb 28, 2014)

Fasttr said:


> That's the way I look at it....by me saying "no" and walking away with my 20K MR points, I am actually helping them get to the next "yes".



And that is the basis of all sales programs.


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## mike2200 (Mar 1, 2014)

dioxide45 said:


> I think it would be unlikely that they would blacklist a current MVCI owners. Perhaps it is possible. Though more likely that they would blacklist a non owner who has taken many tours without purchasing.



I agree those that have bought be it through Marriott(oh bad!!!) or on resale show a better chance of buying, then the unknown person off the street  who has taken several tours....

I am enjoying when asked by the Marriott fisher-people on the walkway in front of MOC if we want a tour, saying "NO, we won't take a tour, we read bad things about the sales procedure on the internet, sorry!"


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## GaryDouglas (Mar 2, 2014)

We'll be up at Timber Lodge in a few hours and they tried by email and even a phone call to have us attend a presentation. I told them we are happy with what we have now and are waiting for the DC programs to mature. My guess is the next trip to MOC, we will also do the same. If we do attend, it's with the understanding that it's info only. We have a steady sales guy at MOC, so that can be arranged. My wife gets too starry-eyed at these presentations, and just like childbirth, forgets preset understandings. The points aren't worth it for us as this point. Besides that, 90 minutes always turns into 180+ for us, which takes away from our Maui time.


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## davidvel (Mar 2, 2014)

GaryDouglas said:


> We'll be up at Timber Lodge in a few hours and they tried by email and even a phone call to have us attend a presentation. I told them we are happy with what we have now and are waiting for the DC programs to mature. My guess is the next trip to MOC, we will also do the same. If we do attend, it's with the understanding that it's info only. We have a steady sales guy at MOC, so that can be arranged. My wife gets too starry-eyed at these presentations, and just like childbirth, forgets preset understandings. The points aren't worth it for us as this point. Besides that, 90 minutes always turns into 180+ for us, which takes away from our Maui time.


Timber lodge has offered 2 lift tix at Heavenly for a tour in the past. Walk at 90 min, this can be worth over $175.


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## GaryDouglas (Mar 3, 2014)

Almost tempting,.....almost.


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## mike2200 (Mar 4, 2014)

GaryDouglas said:


> Almost tempting,.....almost.




Not tempting enough


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## taffy19 (Mar 4, 2014)

A few times lately we have gone on informal updates without receiving gifts at our timeshares in Mexico and Maui and at other Marriott resorts too to find out more about the difference between the trust and elected points and news in general and different locations.  I believe in updates to stay informed.

Last year we got a sales lady at the MOC who already had made a sales that morning and agreed to give us the informal update but it turned out to be a very powerful sales presentation anyway.

She knew the point system very well and how to use it to it's fullest advantage like some of the TUGgers here.  She was a member herself and I believed her but, at the end, she asked me why I was wasting her time if we had no intention of buying so I feel now that I may as well get rewarded for taking an update if they are going to ask this question anyway and try to make us both feel guilty while they are the ones who do not take no for an answer and keep asking us to take the update?

The problem is now that my husband told me that he will never do an update again and I want to take a tour at the Hyatt next door to see the models and get their prices.  I may have to go alone and find out if I can take a look anyway without him being there.

I will not do an informal presentation at the Marriott again without a gift and then be made to feel guilty for wasting their time and I doubt if I will get my husband to agree with a gift after our last experience.   I will have to read the news and changes here if my husband means what he said.

We will be in Maui in two weeks and a day and are looking forward to our stay!


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## larryallen (Mar 4, 2014)

iconnections said:


> ... and I want to take a tour at the Hyatt next door to see the models and get their prices.



You can always take a tour I am sure. They just won't give you anything if you are alone.

We honeymooned at that Hyatt in 2001 and someone told us they were going to turn the building on the north into timeshares. Is that what they finally did? Or did they build a new building? I hadn't heard this finally happened. Will be interested to see it next time we are in Maui.


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## taffy19 (Mar 4, 2014)

larryallen said:


> You can always take a tour I am sure. They just won't give you anything if you are alone.
> 
> We honeymooned at that Hyatt in 2001 and someone told us they were going to turn the building on the north into timeshares. Is that what they finally did? Or did they build a new building? I hadn't heard this finally happened. Will be interested to see it next time we are in Maui.


They are building a brand new tower.  There is a thread about it recently and others under the same heading.  

I would go alone and do not need Hyatt points since we are not a member.

http://tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=202615


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## mike2200 (Mar 6, 2014)

mike2200 said:


> We are currently at Maui Ocean Club and received the usual inquiry about taking an owners update one hour meeting with the sales staff for a gift. As we have over the last six years done this and found it somewhat informative and Not a full press sales job, we signed up again.
> 
> WHAT A MISTAKE. We received a full press sale attempt, with threats if we didn't take a tour of the new tower we wouldn't receive our "gift" we explained we had seen the new unit previously and didn't need to but again we're told this is the NEW Marriott procedure. Our Sales person (and he was truly only trying to sell us points) said "why do you come to this sales presentation if you aren't going to buy!??" We stated cause Marriott contacts us numerous times and ask us to attend, stating it's an owner update on what's new at our property. He said it doesn't matter that you aren't interested in buying any points I am going over this with you anyway and then you'll get your "gift". He also threatened that Marriott will not call anymore if you don't buy and you will be blacklisted.
> 
> ...



Thanks for all the informative post and keep them coming. Maybe Marriott
Will read this and reconsider the "hard press sale tactic" (yeah right!)


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## dansimms (Mar 6, 2014)

*Tug lessens the need for updates*

I feel that being a member of TUG lessens the need to tour, formally or informally.  Enjoy your entire vacation when away.  You are likely to hear the updates informally at one of the resort bars with folks who did the 90 minute tour.  They will be happy to give the highlights.


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## dioxide45 (Mar 6, 2014)

dansimms said:


> I feel that being a member of TUG lessens the need to tour, formally or informally.  Enjoy your entire vacation when away.  You are likely to hear the updates informally at one of the resort bars with folks who did the 90 minute tour.  They will be happy to give the highlights.



Is TUG going to give me 20,000 MRPs, 200 DC points, or $100 gift card?


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## mike2200 (Mar 10, 2014)

dioxide45 said:


> Is TUG going to give me 20,000 MRPs, 200 DC points, or $100 gift card?



No, but Marriott is now apparently going to make it a pain to get your gift


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## gblotter (Apr 3, 2014)

*Blacklisted - hah!*



gblotter said:


> Our most recent sales presentation was at Timber Lodge last August.  The salesperson said that our history of attending presentations without buying anything would now result in us being blacklisted from future presentations.
> 
> Our next trip (this time to Maui Ocean Club) is coming up next month.  We'll see what actually happens with the blacklisting.  In the past I have always been open to taking their free 'gifts', but I'm fine if they never call again (especially if they are now being very aggressive).  Maui Ocean Club used to be known for their soft-sell approach.


Here at beautiful Maui Ocean Club this week.  Barely an hour had elapsed after check-in when we were offered a sales presentation in exchange for 15K MRPs.  So much for being blacklisted - hah!

We attended the presentation this morning.  A few interesting pieces of information about possible new locations (NYC, San Diego, Cabo).  There was the now-standard  recital of how our legacy points will not get us a reservation at any new trust resorts.  I responded that we have never once been denied a desired reservation using legacy points.  Our sales guy insisted that would change in the future (scare tactics).  He pushed hard for us to buy 1500 trust points which would super-charge all our legacy points (not).  The sales manager ~might~ make an exception for us to purchase only 1000 trust points because we are such loyal Marriott owners (sure).  Yada yada yada.  I responded that I am already oversubscribed with Marriott Vacation Club product and am not able to use all that I own given my limited amount of time off at work.

With some annoyance in his voice, the sales guy then asked why I continue to attend presentations if I have no intention of buying.  I responded that Marriott called me and offered an incentive to attend - I did not call them.  He said I would not be offered presentations in the future, and I replied that I understood and was not offended.  This was pretty much a carbon-copy of what I was told last summer at Timber Lodge.

We were required to spend the entire 60 minutes at the presentation - no early dismissal.

I'm fairly certain that the invitations to attend presentations will not cease.

FYI: Tomorrow we will be attending a 60-minute presentation for the Hyatt Maui Vacation Club next door (in exchange for a $100 VISA gift card).  From what we can see of the construction, it looks to be a very nice timeshare property with some very high prices.


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## bastroum (Apr 3, 2014)

We just returned from MOC. We were there 3/9 through 3/22. I did not receive one call for an owners update. Ran into the Welcome Center to pick up a "Discount Card". Told them I was in a hurry, got the card, told them I didn't want an update. Was in and out in 5 minutes. Must be hit or miss with the calls.


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## Mamianka (Apr 3, 2014)

bastroum said:


> We just returned from MOC. We were there 3/9 through 3/22. I did not receive one call for an owners update. Ran into the Welcome Center to pick up a "Discount Card". Told them I was in a hurry, got the card, told them I didn't want an update. Was in and out in 5 minutes. Must be hit or miss with the calls.




We were at Canyon Villas 2 weeks ago, for a week.  Told them at the outset that we had no interest in any meeting - last one, a few years back, was very rude and high-pressured, and we are not comfortable sitting thus anything else, even if polite and pleasant, since we have NO INTENTIONS WHATSOEVER of buying any more timeshare time/property/points - from anyone.  Not one phone call - nothing.  Yay.


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## snowgoose (Apr 3, 2014)

gblotter said:


> With some annoyance in his voice, the sales guy then asked why I continue to attend presentations if I have no intention of buying.  I responded that Marriott called me and offered an incentive to attend - I did not call them.



Last January we had the same experience when the Welcome Center encouraged us to attend as they do every stay

When our salesman right off discovered we were not interested in buying he asked the same question.  We explained the Welcome Center encouraged us to attend to hear what's new.  With that he became somewhat curt, severely badmouthed the Welcome Center and said unless we stayed to hear him for 60 minutes we would not get our incentive reward.  With that we thanked him, excused ourselves and left.

We went to the Welcome Center and explained what happened and advised them that the salesman said they, the Welcome center, had no business sending us to the presentation. Needless to say, the Welcome Center was astonished.

The next day we received a call from a sales manager who overly apologized for the salesman's behavior and invited us down to pick up our reward.

The rest of our stay was perfect, the Marriott is usually always perfection.


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## dioxide45 (Apr 3, 2014)

Marriott has X dollars set aside for marketing. As long as they don't exceed that budget, and they don't deem they need to lower that budget, the offers to attend presentations will continue.

They continue to offer us to take a presentation, we continue to attend. Somoetimes the sales reps tell us the offers will end, but they continue. We were told back in 2012 that as of January 2013 there would no longer be any incentives to attend a tour. Of course January 2013 came and went and they continue to incent people to attend a presentation. I think the sales reps just like to mess with people, just like we are messing with them by attending and not buying. It is all a big game, a dog and pony show. Round and round we go.


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## Bogeygirl (Apr 3, 2014)

pacman said:


> This is a great thread, and underlines the main reasons why I never go to the "owner updates", or, even worse, a sales presentations. We don't even go to the concierge to pick up our "free gift" when arriving.  My time is way too valuable to waste on any of this.  I, too, am at the Marriott Maui Ocean Club right now, and just smile nicely and say hi to the guys at the sales booths when passing.



I agree with you entirely. To me there is nothing that turns me off more on my arrival than to have the concierge pushing us with theme park tickets and tee times in exchange for the presentation.  And don't keep calling the room and leaving messages either! We did go to the so called owner update last fall at Ocean Watch. Never again.


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## taffy19 (Apr 3, 2014)

gblotter said:


> Here at beautiful Maui Ocean Club this week. Barely an hour had elapsed after check-in when we were offered a sales presentation in exchange for 15K MRPs. So much for being blacklisted - hah!
> 
> We attended the presentation this morning. A few interesting pieces of information about possible new locations (NYC, San Diego, Cabo). There was the now-standard recital of how our legacy points will not get us a reservation at any new trust resorts. I responded that we have never once been denied a desired reservation using legacy points. Our sales guy insisted that would change in the future (scare tactics). He pushed hard for us to buy 1500 trust points which would super-charge all our legacy points (not). The sales manager ~might~ make an exception for us to purchase only 1000 trust points because we are such loyal Marriott owners (sure). Yada yada yada. I responded that I am already oversubscribed with Marriott Vacation Club product and am not able to use all that I own given my limited amount of time off at work.
> 
> ...


A lady called us at home several times but we never connected.  When we entered the tower, another lady asked us to do an update and I asked if she was so and so.  She wasn't so I said that we were going to think it over and let the other lady know.

When I met her, I told her that we would never do a presentation again after being insulted two years ago.  We didn't take a tour so got nothing for our time but she ended up saying: "Why are you wasting my time?"  She wasn't even scheduled for a tour.  We don't need that treatment so my husband says: "Absolutely not" but I got him interested in going to tour the Hyatt and we did for the same gift as you did.

Many are ex-Marriott and Westin sales people as I recognized a few and even the people at the kiosk too.

I wanted to see our model again in the Napili tower to check something out and a marketer took me up there and I heard from a guest that the points would go up in price a day after her tour.  It did go up but I forgot the details as we are not interested at all and she told us too that prices will go up four times per year.


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## GaryDouglas (Apr 4, 2014)

iconnections said:


> ...I got him interested in going to tour the Hyatt and we did for the same gift as you did.


 
So what does the Hyatt cost?  Details?


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## MALC9990 (Apr 4, 2014)

I have noticed a trend over recent years. The sales people we see are now much less experienced. At PBC this year the guy was still in training and I spent 90 minutes teaching him all I knew about DC Points, AP Points, using them and also resales and prices. he was clueless. His manager has been there for many years and knows me well and signed us off as soon as he knew we were there. 

At Son Antem a few years ago, all the experienced staff in sales suddenly disappeared - either they left or mostly they were laid off and replaced with new and totally clueless new sales reps. The significant new feature that was introduced was the short skirts, long legs and blonde hair of the new sales reps. Yet again we spent a session teaching the rep and since then have declined all attempts to get us in the door there.

On recent exchanges, we got the hard sell at Frenchman's Cove but were ignored totally at St. Kitts and at Crystal Shores. Never got an approach at Sunset Pointe and The Manor Club either. 

So perhaps we are partially blacklisted but really I do not care - my time is precious and we only attend if the welcome staff are really insistent.


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## chunkygal (Apr 4, 2014)

We got the blacklist threat last year in Oahu and if that happened, that's OK.
I have never had high pressure, but while I am a points junkie, I always hate that I wasted the time of my precious vacation. I can just work a bit longer and have the equivqlent of whatever the "prize" is. 
I thought it was truly an update last tiem and I had some questions about resale points that I wanted to hear from Marriott. Probably an esaier way to do this I realized afterwards. 
Oh well, live and learn.


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## taffy19 (Apr 4, 2014)

GaryDouglas said:


> So what does the Hyatt cost? Details?


I will reply to this later because we have to pack up. They have as many prices over there as they had here when they were selling the fixed week/units. They have prices for three different price levels of floors and then by week and by 1, 2 or 3 BR units. I only have the price sheets for the 1 and 2 BR condos. Maybe gblotter can get that today. They are expensive and our week 12 that we bought at the Marriott here is costing $32,000.00 more! That should help our re-sale prices if you are a seller, I hope. Not so good for bargain hunters.


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## vacationtime1 (Apr 4, 2014)

GaryDouglas said:


> So what does the Hyatt cost?  Details?



http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=202615


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## gblotter (Apr 4, 2014)

GaryDouglas said:


> So what does the Hyatt cost?  Details?


I only have the price sheet for 2BR units.

The cheapest is $43,500 for a low-floor unit week 48-50 (early December).

The most expensive is $124,000 for a high floor unit week 52 (New Year's).

Annual maintenance fees for all 2BR units (regardless of location) will be $2400 for the first year at least.

The Hyatt presentation was very low pressure and very informative. They have many former-Marriott salespeople working there (including our salesman). The Hyatt system is quite a bit different than either Marriott weeks or Marriott DC points.

I liked everything except the cost.  It will be a very nice timeshare property (and not too big either).  The beach size and quality starts to get a little iffy in front of the Hyatt, so that is a concern I suppose.


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## suzannesimon (Apr 4, 2014)

I like Hyatt.  Not sure about all of the resorts,  but mine is fixed unit and fixed week and that is great.  No disappointment about your view. No skim on the points and they trade great in II.  $43,500 is a bit much.  I guess we'll have to wait for resales?  How many points do you get for a low season 2BR?


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## gblotter (Apr 4, 2014)

suzannesimon said:


> I like Hyatt.  Not sure about all of the resorts,  but mine is fixed unit and fixed week and that is great.  No disappointment about your view. No skim on the points and they trade great in II.  $43,500 is a bit much.  I guess we'll have to wait for resales?  How many points do you get for a low season 2BR?


You get 2200 points for any 2BR unit regardless of location in the building (high floor or low floor).  All 52 weeks are considered Diamond Season.

Oh - and our salesman insisted there would be no resales at the Hyatt Maui location.  Hyatt would buy back or exercise ROFR on any week (but that may just be a salesman speaking).


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## suzannesimon (Apr 4, 2014)

Better to buy 2200 points resale somewhere else and exhange in!


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## GaryDouglas (Apr 5, 2014)

Thanks for the update all.  I wonder what they will go for on the secondary market, years from now... other than 'less'.


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