# Anyone put their HGVC into a trust?



## 1Kflyerguy (Oct 12, 2014)

Curious if anyone has successfully put their deed into a trust?

Ours is currently held as Joint Tenants, but we have almost everything else in a trust.

I found a few old threads where people we complaining of problems with HGVC deeds being held in trust.  

I called Hilton and that said no problem.  Knowing that people are much more likely to report problems than success, thought i would ask about success. 

I can really see why it should matter,....


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## GregT (Oct 12, 2014)

1Kflyerguy said:


> Curious if anyone has successfully put their deed into a trust?
> 
> Ours is currently held as Joint Tenants, but we have almost everything else in a trust.
> 
> ...



All of my HGVCs are in our trust and I have no issues (except that I always have to put in the guest information even when it's me).  All of my timeshares are held by the trust - one was bought individually and I later put it into the trust. 

Best,

Greg


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## 1Kflyerguy (Oct 12, 2014)

GregT said:


> All of my HGVCs are in our trust and I have no issues (except that I always have to put in the guest information even when it's me).  All of my timeshares are held by the trust - one was bought individually and I later put it into the trust.
> 
> Best,
> 
> Greg



Thanks for the confirmation of no issues.

Can you add your self as a guest online or do you have to call?  

Assume you don't have to pay for the guest certificate...


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## buzglyd (Oct 12, 2014)

Mine are all in a trust too.


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## SmithOp (Oct 12, 2014)

I'm curious about Greg's issue too, when we set up our family trust it was explained that either of us could sign our names and they are included with the name of the trust. I don't see why HGVC could not keep the names on the account and add in the trust.

We only put our accounts and property in the trust, we were provided the documents to transfer the timeshares but I haven't filed them.  I did buy a GPR resort and had it recorded under the trust name, but their records have our names also and I just booked next years use with no problem. Not sure why HGVC are such sticklers about account matching deed.


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## GregT (Oct 12, 2014)

1Kflyerguy said:


> Thanks for the confirmation of no issues.
> 
> Can you add your self as a guest online or do you have to call?
> 
> Assume you don't have to pay for the guest certificate...



Yes, I typically add myself as the Guest, and there is no fee for the guest certificate.

I've made a reservation once for a third party, and I didn't have to pay a fee for them either.

I hope that helps!

Best,

Greg


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## buzglyd (Oct 12, 2014)

I've made reservations and told them my fiancé would get there before me and they let her check in. She's not in the trust (at least for another week). Kings land here we come!


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## 1Kflyerguy (Oct 13, 2014)

thanks for the confirmation everyone. Will proceed with transferring the title when I make the other changes to my Trust.

Chris


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## njmacman (Oct 14, 2014)

What kind of trust are we talking about? If all of my kids are beneficiaries I the trust can they all use the timeshare for free?


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## 1Kflyerguy (Oct 14, 2014)

Ours is a Revocable Living Trust, 

I believe the Trustee's, not the beneficiaries are allowed to use the Trust's assets, such as financial accounts and timeshares.


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## TheWizz (Oct 20, 2014)

I'm curious if folks are setting up trusts for their timeshares AND other assets, e.g. primary home, etc. OR a segregated trust just for the timeshares?

I have thought of setting up two trusts: (1) for all timeshares and (2) for other assets that appreciate and would definitely be left to our children.  I'd like my children to have the choice of keeping or dumping our timeshares if they don't want them, say 20-30 years from now.  If I simply leave them in our (me and wife's) names, then I believe they can refuse them if they don't want the burden of the MFs.  Not sure how it would work if I placed them into a trust.  I guess I could just keep the trust in me and my wife's name only for the timeshares?

Has anyone else went down this road for similar reasons?


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## 1Kflyerguy (Oct 20, 2014)

We are using a single trust for everything.  I am not a lawyer, how would putting the timeshares into a separate trust help?  Can the beneficiaries accept or refuse each asset individually?

Or are you thinking they might want to just refuse all of the assets in the second trust?

From what i have heard, keeping them out of the trust and in your individual names would allow the kids to refuse them.  However that would also require each property to probate in the state of its location.

My assumption is that my timeshares will have enough to value to be worth accepting, even if my son decides to sell it right away.


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## Wexflyer (Nov 1, 2014)

*Open season and trusts?*

If those holding via trusts have to get themselves "guest certificates", then doesn't that imply that they can't book open season?


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## Maverick1963 (Nov 3, 2014)

*Bit late to comment...*

Under joint tenancy, the surviving spouse will obtain the whole title of the property automatically.  So living trust is not necessary.  That's my understanding.  Also if timeshare is put in  the living trust, the inheritance must take place.  So that should be considered if the trust would be intended for passing the assets to children.  They may not want timeshares.


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## CalGalTraveler (Sep 1, 2017)

We've owned HGVC under a revocable living trust and never had any issues. Our names are also on the account as trustees. Never had to fill in guest names. Does corporate treatment apply to revocable living trusts?  We've never completed a guest certificate.


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## csodjd (Sep 1, 2017)

CalGalTraveler said:


> We've owned HGVC under a revocable living trust and never had any issues. Our names are also on the account as trustees. Never had to fill in guest names. Does corporate treatment apply to revocable living trusts?  We've never completed a guest certificate.


Mine is held in my name as "Trustee" of my trust. Just like title to my house. A "trust" cannot hold property or have title to property. It is the Trustee that holds title, and he/she holds it in the capacity as trustee as opposed to individually outside the trust. It's a bit of a legal concept, but that's how it works. (I'm an attorney.) Thus, the proper title would be something like, "X and Y, trustees, XY living trust dated xxxx." 

I actually hold one in the name of my LLC. When I check in I have to give my business name for them to find it in the computer. I'm preparing now to quit claim that from my LLC to my trust.


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## Kildahl (Sep 4, 2017)

csodjd said:


> Mine is held in my name as "Trustee" of my trust. Just like title to my house. A "trust" cannot hold property or have title to property. It is the Trustee that holds title, and he/she holds it in the capacity as trustee as opposed to individually outside the trust. It's a bit of a legal concept, but that's how it works. (I'm an attorney.) Thus, the proper title would be something like, "X and Y, trustees, XY living trust dated xxxx." ....



I recall the words " a trust is a relationship, not an entity".  Legal nomenclature I often see is  " Able Trustee, UTA 09/03/2017" (UTA  being an abbreviation for "under a trust agreement").
What is customary or acceptable will depend on the location of the real estate.


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## hurnik (Sep 4, 2017)

Could someone explain the pros/cons of doing this (putting your contracts/whatever into a trust)?

So far it seems:
Pros:
-If one of you croaks, the other can more easily get the contracts.
-Both can make reservations and not have to worry about a guest cert

Cons:
- Costs money to do this (I think) either in terms of setting up the trust, or getting HGVC to "redo" the contracts?
- If you rent out your unit, or have other relatives/friends/etc. use it, since there's no guest cert, they need to have your security questions/answers?

I could be wrong on all the above, so please set me straight (haha).

Thanks!


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## CalGalTraveler (Sep 4, 2017)

hurnik said:


> Could someone explain the pros/cons of doing this (putting your contracts/whatever into a trust)?
> 
> Thanks!



I wouldn't create a revocable living trust for the purposes of putting your HGVC contract in it. We had one already and were advised to put all real estate into it by the lawyer who set it up.  Google "revocable living trust" and contact a lawyer as to whether it makes sense for your situation.

For the legal beagles in the crowd: can beneficiaries (our children) of a revocable living trust reject a timeshare if it is given to them upon death of the trustees?  If not, is it possible to add language to the trust to enable this and would this be viewed as enforceable?


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## csodjd (Sep 4, 2017)

hurnik said:


> Could someone explain the pros/cons of doing this (putting your contracts/whatever into a trust)?


That's really a broader question about the pros and cons of a living trust generally. Not sure there are ANY cons. The pros are avoidance of probate. Since I own something (my home, say) as the "trustee," if I die, it's a simple non-court matter to substitute another trustee in my place, such as my wife. The trust documents say who the next trustee will be. Trusts are largely about court and probate avoidance. You can do all the same things in a will, but a will must be court managed through probate.


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## Bruce Povalish (Aug 14, 2019)

csodjd said:


> That's really a broader question about the pros and cons of a living trust generally. Not sure there are ANY cons. The pros are avoidance of probate. Since I own something (my home, say) as the "trustee," if I die, it's a simple non-court matter to substitute another trustee in my place, such as my wife. The trust documents say who the next trustee will be. Trusts are largely about court and probate avoidance. You can do all the same things in a will, but a will must be court managed through probate.




Hey folks, I am new to this blog. I was thinking about buying HGV 10K points in secondary market and putting it into a trust so that my kids would not be stuck with the timeshare after my death. My thought is that they can exercise their beneficiary rights under the trust or reject their rights and let the trust die and therefore no issues with HGV trying to make them assume the annual liability (or my estate for that matter). Any thoughts/confirmation???


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## SmithOp (Aug 14, 2019)

Bruce Povalish said:


> Hey folks, I am new to this blog. I was thinking about buying HGV 10K points in secondary market and putting it into a trust so that my kids would not be stuck with the timeshare after my death. My thought is that they can exercise their beneficiary rights under the trust or reject their rights and let the trust die and therefore no issues with HGV trying to make them assume the annual liability (or my estate for that matter). Any thoughts/confirmation???



Its not necessary, your kids can just decide not to accept the timeshare inheritance.  You could just specify in your will that it be given back to HGVC if you meet an untimely end.  Otherwise it will have some value and can be sold when you can no longer travel.

10k points are not worth enough to worry about probate either.  Most peoples estates qualify for simple probate.

https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/free-books/avoid-probate-book/chapter8-2.html

If you have a large enough estate to worry about probate you should be talking to a lawyer, not asking random strangers on the internet.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro


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## Remy (Aug 14, 2019)

csodjd said:


> Mine is held in my name as "Trustee" of my trust. Just like title to my house. A "trust" cannot hold property or have title to property. It is the Trustee that holds title, and he/she holds it in the capacity as trustee as opposed to individually outside the trust. It's a bit of a legal concept, but that's how it works. (I'm an attorney.) Thus, the proper title would be something like, "X and Y, trustees, XY living trust dated xxxx."
> 
> I actually hold one in the name of my LLC. When I check in I have to give my business name for them to find it in the computer. I'm preparing now to quit claim that from my LLC to my trust.



This is how mine is set up. It has my name as trustee on all the reservations, and it often appears as “Trustee” in the first name instead of my first name, but I’ve never had a problem checking in when that happens.


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## 1Kflyerguy (Aug 15, 2019)

I think it all depends on your personal circumstances.  I stated this thread, and did end up moving my HGV into our living trust.  We already had the trust so the only expense was to re-title the deed into the trust, and some paperwork with HGV.    Unfortunately i have been involved with a few messy estates, and i wanted to keep things as simple as possible for my heirs.  From what i have heard you may force an "ancillary probate" if you own property in additional states.  For example I live in California, if I own HGV deeds in Hawaii, Nevada my estate may have to probate in Ca, NV and HI unless everything is held in a trust.

If the goal is to allow your kids to disavow the timeshares, then SmithOp is correct, they can refuse the inheritance no matter how the ownership is titled.

Ultimately its an estate planning issue.


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## Denise L (Aug 15, 2019)

We have our timeshares listed in our trust on a separate page.  So our timeshares aren't titled to the trust, but the timeshares are listed as assets.  I think that our lawyer told us that we would be allowed a certain dollar amount and if they weren't worth more than that, then we didn't need to go through retitling everything.  Now, it's been 18 months since we put the trust together, so who knows if we did the right thing, but we can always change it.  We were assuming that we would like to sell off most of the timeshares before we die, but if we die before we do, then the lawyer said that the list would suffice.  Of course, we've added our two HGVCs since the trust was done, so those are missing completely right now.


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## CalGalTraveler (Aug 15, 2019)

Can a recipient of a trust upon death accept most assets but reject the timeshares?


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## csodjd (Aug 15, 2019)

Denise L said:


> We have our timeshares listed in our trust on a separate page.  So our timeshares aren't titled to the trust, but the timeshares are listed as assets.  I think that our lawyer told us that we would be allowed a certain dollar amount and if they weren't worth more than that, then we didn't need to go through retitling everything.  Now, it's been 18 months since we put the trust together, so who knows if we did the right thing, but we can always change it.  We were assuming that we would like to sell off most of the timeshares before we die, but if we die before we do, then the lawyer said that the list would suffice.  Of course, we've added our two HGVCs since the trust was done, so those are missing completely right now.


If your attorney is an experienced wills and trusts/estate planning attorney, you can probably trust that. If not, I'd check with one that is. My understanding, since this is an interest in real property, is that the deed must be held in the name of the trustee in that capacity. Otherwise we'd just "list" our home and investment accounts and car, etc., and not bother with the title of those things. I believe title controls. However, I'm NOT a trust attorney. 

Do remember that a living trust is a legal fiction. There is no such thing as an entity. It does not actually exist. It is simply a legal fiction for estate purposes as a non-probate way to handle your "stuff." A trust cannot sue or be sued, for instance. Only the trustee can.


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## 1Kflyerguy (Aug 16, 2019)

CalGalTraveler said:


> Can a recipient of a trust upon death accept most assets but reject the timeshares?



Based on the research I did, I believe they can be refused.  However that was not significant consideration for me.  At least right now, my timeshares have value and should be able to be sold, or at worst given away with relative ease if needed.


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## Denise L (Aug 16, 2019)

csodjd said:


> If your attorney is an experienced wills and trusts/estate planning attorney, you can probably trust that. If not, I'd check with one that is. My understanding, since this is an interest in real property, is that the deed must be held in the name of the trustee in that capacity. Otherwise we'd just "list" our home and investment accounts and car, etc., and not bother with the title of those things. I believe title controls. However, I'm NOT a trust attorney.
> 
> Do remember that a living trust is a legal fiction. There is no such thing as an entity. It does not actually exist. It is simply a legal fiction for estate purposes as a non-probate way to handle your "stuff." A trust cannot sue or be sued, for instance. Only the trustee can.



Our attorney is an estate planning attorney, so we feel confident that he gave us correct information at the time.  I suppose we can always retitle everything if we want to and amend the trust.  We did retitle our home since its value is far greater than the timeshares.  I'll do some more research.


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## terces (Aug 16, 2019)

Denise L said:


> Our attorney is an estate planning attorney, so we feel confident that he gave us correct information at the time.  I suppose we can always retitle everything if we want to and amend the trust.  We did retitle our home since its value is far greater than the timeshares.  I'll do some more research.


I helped one of those attorneys make himself a lot of money setting up a trust for me.  Complicated and ongoing accounting and tax filing over the years, and then a bunch more costs to unwind it.  There is no way it would have made sense for a timeshare.  Many other people of my era did the same thing and almost none of those trusts were worth it at the end of the day.


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## csodjd (Aug 16, 2019)

Denise L said:


> Our attorney is an estate planning attorney, so we feel confident that he gave us correct information at the time.  I suppose we can always retitle everything if we want to and amend the trust.  We did retitle our home since its value is far greater than the timeshares.  I'll do some more research.


The whole point of the trust (of A trust) is to avoid probate. No doubt this varies by state, but in California if your "estate" is worth under $150,000, you are a "small estate" and probate is not required to pass things down. A trust is used then to ensure you stay under that $150k threshold. Homes typically have equity exceeding that. So do many investment accounts (retirement accounts like IRA and 401k do not count, nor does life insurance). Timeshares contribute to the value of your estate. Cars do. Country club membership does. Etc. I put the TSs into the trust (that is, I hold them as trustee) simply because it means a mere change in name of the trustee is all that's needed to pass it on, whether to my wife, kids, etc., and I don't have to worry about valuation and the small estate threshold.


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## 1Kflyerguy (Aug 19, 2019)

terces said:


> I helped one of those attorneys make himself a lot of money setting up a trust for me.  Complicated and ongoing accounting and tax filing over the years, and then a bunch more costs to unwind it.  There is no way it would have made sense for a timeshare.  Many other people of my era did the same thing and almost none of those trusts were worth it at the end of the day.



You must have had i different type of trust.  We have one trust with our primary residence, and most other financial assets including our timeshares.   No special accounting or tax filings.

But everyone's situation is different, and as someone else mentioned above  tax law changes over time.  There is no single solution that is right for everyone.


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## bogey21 (Aug 19, 2019)

csodjd said:


> The whole point of the trust (of A trust) is to avoid probate.



I solved the probate situation in a different way.  Shortly after turning 65 I distributed all my assets to my kids and ex-wife.  My three small Bank Accounts are all JTWROS but don't have much in them as I currently use most of my excess disposable income for the benefit of kids and ex-wife.  That was 19 years ago and I have never regretted it...

In hindsight there is another advantage to this.  Because there is no pot of gold for my heirs when I die and because I use my excess disposable income for their benefit my kids and ex have a vested interest in rooting for me to live a long and prosperous life...

George


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## csodjd (Aug 20, 2019)

bogey21 said:


> In hindsight there is another advantage to this. Because there is no pot of gold for my heirs when I die and because I use my excess disposable income for their benefit my kids and ex have a vested interest in rooting for me to live a long and prosperous life...
> 
> George


So you think that big life insurance policy I have that still has my ex-wife as a 50% beneficiary is a bad idea?


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## bogey21 (Aug 20, 2019)

csodjd said:


> So you think that big life insurance policy I have that still has my ex-wife as a 50% beneficiary is a bad idea?



Nothing wrong with that at all.  Actually I applaud it.  We all have our individual circumstances and make choices as to how to best handle our affairs.  No one way is right for everyone.  My post was only to describe an alternative that most people  probably have not considered...

George


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## csodjd (Aug 20, 2019)

bogey21 said:


> Nothing wrong with that at all.  Actually I applaud it.  We all have our individual circumstances and make choices as to how to best handle our affairs.  No one way is right for everyone.  My post was only to describe an alternative that most people  probably have not considered...
> 
> George


I was kidding, mostly. Playing off your plan giving everyone a "vested interest in rooting for me to live a long and prosperous life." My ex may not have that "vested interest," especially since her half-million dollar interest in my life insurance ends in 3 1/2 years.


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## klkaylor (Feb 7, 2020)

As probate costs in CA are quite high and our estate is over the 150K limit we recently had a trust prepared.  However "funding" the trust has been quite and interesting path.  We have several timeshare with Marriott (worked well for us) in three states (CA, HI, NV) and were planing to put them in the trust so that given that we had not sold the all, the trust could easily pay the MF if needed, dispurse to the benificiaries as they wish, or sell and give away the funds.  However upon contacting Marriott the process is long, hard, and expensive based on their "process"(see attached form.) Has anyone gone through this process? Is there a way around it - it is just a simple quit claim deed to pass ownership (and the recording/legal fees) to complete the retitiling.  I think this is the right thing to do but to pay 2-3K to just move our timeshare seems crazy?  Am I overthinking this issue?


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## 1Kflyerguy (Feb 7, 2020)

klkaylor said:


> As probate costs in CA are quite high and our estate is over the 150K limit we recently had a trust prepared.  However "funding" the trust has been quite and interesting path.  We have several timeshare with Marriott (worked well for us) in three states (CA, HI, NV) and were planing to put them in the trust so that given that we had not sold the all, the trust could easily pay the MF if needed, dispurse to the benificiaries as they wish, or sell and give away the funds.  However upon contacting Marriott the process is long, hard, and expensive based on their "process"(see attached form.) Has anyone gone through this process? Is there a way around it - it is just a simple quit claim deed to pass ownership (and the recording/legal fees) to complete the retitiling.  I think this is the right thing to do but to pay 2-3K to just move our timeshare seems crazy?  Am I overthinking this issue?



I did move my HGVC timeshare to a trust, and yes I needed to have new deed done to move it to the trust. Since your question is really about the MVC process, I think you will get better answers on their process in the Marriott forum.


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## bdj604 (Feb 8, 2020)

1Kflyerguy said:


> I did move my HGVC timeshare to a trust, and yes I needed to have new deed done to move it to the trust. Since your question is really about the MVC process, I think you will get better answers on their process in the Marriott forum.



Did HGVC charge you to do this (such as the $2-3k by Marriott indicated in the previous post)? Thanks!


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## klkaylor (Feb 8, 2020)

So the total cost is not all paid to marriott - it is the cost of deed preparation, recording fees then(very location dependent), it appears to be $25/per unit.  As we have 11 units to transfer the cost add up.  There are several websites that help with deed preparation (both for a fee and free) but the instructions from Marriott said that they have to be completed by a lawyer so that increases the cost a lot.  Not sure how they would tell.  Also can't transfer to a trust if there is an outstanding loan (not an issue for us.) Appreciate the tip to look at the marriot forum but felt the issues was more general - any timeshare to a trust.


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## 1Kflyerguy (Feb 10, 2020)

bdj604 said:


> Did HGVC charge you to do this (such as the $2-3k by Marriott indicated in the previous post)? Thanks!



Its been a few years, but i think it was something like $600 or $700 to retitle my HGV unit into the trust.  I used the HGVC title service thinking that would make the process easier,  I am not sure that made a difference, but know it was more expensive than using an outside service.  If I had to to do it over, i would a different less expensive title service.


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## hurnik (Feb 10, 2020)

1Kflyerguy said:


> Its been a few years, but i think it was something like $600 or $700 to retitle my HGV unit into the trust.  I used the HGVC title service thinking that would make the process easier,  I am not sure that made a difference, but know it was more expensive than using an outside service.  If I had to to do it over, i would a different less expensive title service.



Thanks!  So if one had say 4 contracts (multiple HGV "units") you could theoretically pay HGV $600 x 4 = $2400?


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## 1Kflyerguy (Feb 10, 2020)

hurnik said:


> Thanks!  So if one had say 4 contracts (multiple HGV "units") you could theoretically pay HGV $600 x 4 = $2400?



Correct, but the majority of the cost was for the title company, i imagine you could use of lower cost option like LT transfers and save on the expenses.  I checked my old emails, and it looks like the fee to HGV was $135 back in 2015. Not sure if they have increase that by now....


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