# Orange Lake's Global Access



## JoanE (Oct 24, 2006)

I am an owner of Orange Lake and have just become aware of their new Global access system. I believe this was started in July of 2006.  They intend to build up a family of properites in major cities.  So far, the two resorts included are the Orange Lake and Lake Geneva Wisconson.   I've been told that I can convert my high season week at Orange Lake to points for $1,300. Then I will be alotted about 159,000 points in this global access system which translates to about 79,000 RCI points. I currently own a points property in Hawaii (eoy)- and am not sure whether or not it pays to convert my week to combine with the other or just let it ride.  I was also told that after the first of the year, the conversion fee will jump to $1,900.  Convert or not convert??????
Joan


----------



## riverdees05 (Oct 24, 2006)

I am an owner, also.  Would be interested in what other owners think of the program.


----------



## ajsmithtx (Oct 24, 2006)

We joined the program, because after 2007 we will need the flexibility with our week that the Global Access offers.


----------



## JLB (Oct 24, 2006)

You can use the Search feature to find discussions about this.

This was a flurry of them and then interest subsided.


----------



## svtug (Oct 24, 2006)

*Purchasing in OLCC*

I am in the process of purchasing a unit in OLCC - West Village unit, through ebay resale.

I contacted OLCC @800.877.6522, ext. 1604, to get information about conversion to RCI Points.

The representative that answered the phone said, it will be $1295 for conversion to RCI points.  However, if the unit was not purchased directly from OLCC, the cost for conversion would be $6995.   

Just wondering if anyone has heard similarly.


----------



## rickandcindy23 (Oct 24, 2006)

I like having points, but you have to decide if you want to visit your home resort every year, and if your answer is yes, you should just say no.  If you want to stay at Orange Lake, you would be better leaving things as they are for now.  If you want to trade to Hawaii or elsewhere, points will get you there, although most of the GC's cost more points than 79,000.  There are some really nice Silver Crowns that might interest you, at least as nice as Orange Lake, plus they are in Hawaii.  Lawai Beach Resort on Kauai is certaining attainable with that number of RCI points and it is a very nice resort. 

We are not ever going to convert our Hawaii weeks to points.  We already have RCI points, 228,300 of them every year.  I see no need to convert, even if they made us that kind of deal for all four of our weeks.  Our maintenance fee costs are way under 1 cent per point altogether and our PAHIO resorts would cost more.  

You have to decide what you really want to do with what you have.  It is a very difficult decision sometimes.


----------



## gjw007 (Oct 25, 2006)

A couple comments.  

First, the conversion isn't to RCI Points, per se, but to GoGlobal points. If they were RCI Points, you could make the reservations yourself with RCI as the points are deposited into your Points account.  GoGlobal points can be converted into an equivalent RCI Points by going through GoGlobal to make the reservations with RCI.  Confused.  The difference is an additional step used with GoGlobal where you go to GoGlobal (which has the RCI account) first who then connect you to RCI.  If you do use RCI Points, there is only the RCI Points fee and no additional GoGlobal fee.  I do not know if GoGlobal will let you transfer RCI Points directly into your RCI Points account if you have one.  If they do, I would bet that there would be a charge, at least from RCI and possibly GoGlobal as well, to make the transfer.

Second, I had calculated the payback period to be roughly 10 years under specific criteria.  If you were to drop RCI, then the GoGlobal membership fee balanced out the RCI member fee so that it doesn't become a factor.  To confirm this, you can think of the current RCI weeks exchange as $89 RCI membership fee plus exchange fee of $164.  A GoGlobal exchange where you dropped the RCI membership would be $89 GoGlobal membership fee plus $40 exchange fee.  The savings for GoGlobal would be $124.  If you kept the RCI membership, you have added another $89 per year that you would have dropped making the savings on the first reservation $36.  Each reservation after the first would have a savings of $124.  With a savings of $124, you would need approximately 10 years ($1300/$124) to break even with the conversion fee.  You also need to make a reservation every year meaning that you don't stay in your week of ownership.  If you use your ownership week, the breakeven period will be even longer.

Third, I was quoted $5000 for units purchased resale for the conversion to GoGlobal.  It doesn't matter if this fee were $5000 or $7000, using the information from the previous paragraph, it would be hard to justify.  While a 10-year payback period might be justified, a 30- or 40-year payback period is not.  The interesting aspect of this is that all units were initially purchased from the developer so why charge different rates?  There should be one fee for all unit whether purchased from the developer or not.  I would not pay the conversion fee of $5000 or $7000.

Fourth,  there are GC units that require more than 80,000 points but there are many that require fewer points as well.  Some of this depends on the time of the year as well.  I don't know the breakdown but I would suggesting looking at the directory of RCI and check out the points requirement for the potential resorts that you are interested in visiting.  GoGlobal will rent you up to 50% of your allocated point total so for the occasional need for additional points, you should be able to get it through GoGlobal.

Fifth, GoGlobal has another program where you can upgrade one of your existing OLCC units and it will bring all your units into GoGlobal.  I did this by upgrading my week 50 to week 52.  I was told after I made the upgrade that the upgrade to week 52 will no longer be available (week 52 gives me an extra week every 6th year).  One of the problems in a points system is that you may no longer get the same trades that you currently do in the weeks system.  My week 50 provides an example of this as week 50 is one of the lowest points requirement weeks for Orlando.  In the weeks program, I have been able to trade it for higher demand weeks such as week 51.  In the Points program, week 50 doesn't give me enough points to grab week 51 so in the Points program, without additional factors, I would never be able to grab a higher point total week.  Some of the additional factors that would allow this is to borrow points from the next year or to use banked points from the previous year.  Another possibility is to rent points as I had mentioned earlier.

Sixth, all points programs have presented me with unexpected surprises.  For example, many resorts have a 1-in-4 policy where you can only go to the resort once every 4th year.  Another point made was that you could check in on any date and for as little as 1 night.  Well, when I made reservations for Vistana Resort, I was told that I could only check in on Friday, Saturday, and Sunday and that the reservation must be for 7 days.  Later when I attempted to make another reservation, I was informed that the 1-in-4 policy was enforced at this resort.  Why, because RCI wanted them as a Points resort and the only way they could get it was to accept these conditions.  I have been told by others that I had been told wrong by RCI but when asked, they also said they have never tried to make reservations twice within the 1-in-4 period.  These reservations were under RCI Points.  

Where does this leave me with a surprise with GoGlobal.  I tried to make a reservation for May 25 at OLCC and was told that there were no units available .  This was very odd since I was told that OLCC had purchased a number of weeks back to have availability.  Under my weeks account, it showed availability in the RCI Weeks program but GoGlobal shows none under its system.  As the program is new, this things are going to happen but over time, more and more units will be in the GoGlobal program.

As Cindy pointed out, only you can make this decision.  There is no right or wrong as it depends on you and your use.  For me, the upgrade made sense because all my weeks are prime demand weeks (Daytona, Xmas, New Years) that are worth more points than the weeks that I normally vacation.  In effect, I am able to vacation 4 weeks (even more if I use 1-bedrooms instead of 2-bedrooms) for my same maintenance fees but as I noted, there are weeks where it isn't justified, in my view, to make the conversion.  I would get as much information as possible.  When most of us were looking for information, none was available as the program was introduced too early with conflicting information but it seems to be settled into its features now.  The answers that were given depended on the questions that were asked and there was no material available.  OLCC wants an opportunity to present the program to the potential owners so much of the information available prior to calling OLCC is a teaser in nature to get the owner to call and inquire about the program.


----------



## elaine (Oct 25, 2006)

*what about a week 51?*

1/2 the time it is a great trader (when xmas falls during week) and I think the fixed week would be better than points (we regularly tarde for things that would be 138,000 points)--and 1/2 the time it falls before xmas and trading is marginal---it's my parents and they bought from OLCC a zillion years ago---ps we NEVER use it always trade.


----------



## elaine (Oct 25, 2006)

*other Q? if you convert--do banked weeks stay fixed weeks?*

what if they have banked weeks that have not come due yet (2006, 2007)? Do they stay finxed banked weeks, or do they convert to points, or do you have the option to do either?


----------



## gjw007 (Oct 25, 2006)

elaine said:
			
		

> what if they have banked weeks that have not come due yet (2006, 2007)? Do they stay finxed banked weeks, or do they convert to points, or do you have the option to do either?


Elaine;

I believe that week 51 is during Xmas week roughly 4 out of every 6 years so it is typically a strong demand week.  Unless you specifically request the use of your week (12 to 13 months out), it will be converted into GoGlobal points.  All my 2007 weeks (and 2008) have been converted into GoGlobal points but clearly I can take my week 51 and week 52 out of the system by declaring that I will be using the weeks I own.  For my week 7, I received a call asking whether I was planning on using the week or not.  Since I was not, it was left converted into GoGlobal points.  For the weeks that I had remaining this year, I had planned on using one and I banked the other.  Even though it was banked with RCI, I was given the option to convert it into GoGlobal points which I then did.

Just curious, I checked to see when week 51 is Xmas week.  The following years week 51 is Xmas week:  2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2012, 2013, 2014, 2015, 2017, 2018, 2019, 2020, 2023, 2024, 2025, etc.  I used http://resortclosings.com/weeks.php...m_years=5&start_day=Sat&num_week_days=8&Go=Go and saturday-to-saturday stays to check whether it was a Xmas week or not.

I do think there are times when a fixed week is better especially if you have a low week and can trade it for a higher demand week.  The Points system was designed not to allow these kinds of trades.  I'm not a fan of points systems per se as I think the costs associated with them are higher (need to have more staff on hand since checkins and checkouts can be anytime and there is always an exchange fee unless you tell the resort 13 months in advance that you will be using your unit).  If you are trading for a resort that requires 138,000 RCI points and can pull it with the fixed week, the fixed week would be much better as the only units that can pull that much RCI Points is the 3- and 4-bedroom River Island units and the 4-bedroom units are reserved for the Wilson family (from what I understand).  I would have been happy if OLCC just stayed a Week's resort.

Updated to not include weeks where the last day (Saturday leaving) was listed as the 25th.  This removed 2 years from the original list (2010 & 2021).


----------



## elaine (Oct 25, 2006)

*thanks--given the # of times xmas falls with wk 51--we will stay weeks*

doing nothing is certianly easier--and since they have had 10+ years of great trades--we'll stay weeks.


----------



## JLB (Oct 25, 2006)

If anyone will read the various discussions we have had, you will likely conclude that it might be best to wait on the decision to convert, until you see more about how this program works.

There still appears to be a lot of conflicting information.

As far as being able to trade into other OL properties, that part of it is certainly in it's infancy.  At this time it is certainly not as attractive as any of the long-established systems that allow you to exchange to other resorts without going through an exchange company, but every program had to start at a beginning, as is OL now.

OL carries a lot of weight, with a lot of owners, and, given time, they probably can put together something like the others--Westgate, Bluegreen, HGVC, DVC, Marriott, etc., etc.

I find it inconsistent that my Inside Source, whom I trust, has told me that OL has recently entered into a long-term agreement with RCI, and that RCI is now showing OL as a Points resorts.  There is obviously some collaberation going on.


----------



## JoanE (Oct 25, 2006)

*Global points conversion*

I finally spoke with a knowlegeable representative for the global network - and think I have a better grasp of the situation.  FYI - Once the conversion takes place, the points from Global network can be put into RCI for no additional cost. I also learned that these points are not transferable upon a resale - but can be transfered to a family member. At this point in time, I am leaning towards making the transaction - as my primary reason for owning is to trade and my week will generate about 78,000 RCI points
Thanks to all of you who have responded,
JoanE


----------



## rickandcindy23 (Oct 25, 2006)

I believe the 1-in-4 rule does not include points transactions, only weeks.


----------



## gjw007 (Oct 25, 2006)

rickandcindy23 said:
			
		

> I believe the 1-in-4 rule does not include points transactions, only weeks.


Cindy;

That is what I had thought until I had tried to do the points reservation.  It may  have applied only to Vistana and for a short time.  All I know is that RCI would not allow me to make the exchange using my Points account because I had already had made a prior exchange within the period.  Likewise I was surprised that I could only make reservation for 7 nights starting on Friday, Saturday, or Sunday - the same as a weeks account.  I had talked to 2 different RCI representatives so I'm assuming I wasn't given bad information.


----------



## rickandcindy23 (Oct 25, 2006)

Madge clarified this very recently.  I will find the link, but I understand that using your points for a points transaction, you do not have to follow the 1-in-4 rule, but when you use points for a weeks transaction (like the 7,500 Orlando weeks), you have to abide by the 1-in-4 and 1-in-3 rules.  Gary, I will look for the link to Madge's comment on this one.


----------



## rickandcindy23 (Oct 25, 2006)

*Found it!*

http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=24422

Vistana is a points resort.  If you were reserving a points unit, there should be no problem.  Were you grabbing a last-minute points exchange?  If so, Vistana would only be on the weeks side and therefore, weeks rules apply.


----------



## gjw007 (Oct 26, 2006)

rickandcindy23 said:
			
		

> http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=24422
> 
> Vistana is a points resort.  If you were reserving a points unit, there should be no problem.  Were you grabbing a last-minute points exchange?  If so, Vistana would only be on the weeks side and therefore, weeks rules apply.


No, I was attempting to make the reservation 8 months in advance.  I made reservations at Celebration World instead since I couldn't make the points reservation.  I hear what people say but my experience with Vistana has been different.  Likewise, Points-based reservation should be able to make reservation for as little as one night for any night of the week but that also is not true for Vistana.  There are exceptions to the rule and it appears that Vistana may be one of those that is an exception.


----------



## rickandcindy23 (Oct 26, 2006)

Gary, I was not aware of that problem.  RCI rules change with the seasons and we really cannot count on anything they say.  :annoyed:   Madge made it clear here, but if you found different information, I definitely do not doubt you.


----------



## BocaBum99 (Oct 26, 2006)

These new develops indicate that OLCC is trying to kill off the resale market for Global Access points.  Dumb, very dumb.  But, what else can you expect from a resort developer?  Any distortions that a developer creates in the market creates loopholes elsewhere.  Perfect for us who know how to arbitrage the system.

OLCC is only catering to those who buy directly from them.  What this will do is ensure that only those who buy from the developer can have internal access to the best locations in the resort.

It won't prevent great exchanges into the OLCC.  In fact, it may increase the availability.  It will probably make the resale value of units drop a bit.  Anyone who buys into the program is receiving a lifetime sentence of Global Access.  It will be completely unmarketable.

So, the way to play this is to come in the back door via RCI Points.  If you don't mind where you stay at OLCC, you will be able to get in very inexpensively by exchaning in via weeks.  If you want to stay in River Island, just use RCI Points.

I predict the next rule OLCC will institute is to put a 1 in 3 on RCI Points exchanges into the resort ala HGVC.  That is if they haven't done it already.

All that will do is significantly increase the availability of River Island in RCI Points making it even easier to exchange in and making it make even less interesting to buy Global Access.

Once again, all of the great exchanges into OLCC either via weeks or RCI Points will be subsidized by the poor owner who buys into this Global Access program.


----------



## elaine (Oct 26, 2006)

*boca--how is OLCC killing off resale?*

are you saying b/c of high conversion fee for resale "weeks?"  And what do you mean by a lifetime sentence of global access? And why is that bad?

Also, question for all, if original owner has a fixed week and converts for the $1300 to global points, and then wants to resell later ---am I correct to understand thatthe global points do not transfer? so does it convert back to underlying fixed week or what?


----------



## timetraveler (Oct 26, 2006)

elaine, anyone purchasing via the resale market will have to pay the much higher fee to get into Go Global. It will not transfer with the purchase.

This program is in it's infancy....like any other points system.  It is going to be constantly evaluated and owner's should expect it's policies to be updated accordingly.

For many, the points flexibility is what they want.   For many others, it makes no sense to convert.  OL is not trying to convert every single owner.  They know for many existing owners, the new program doesn't make financial sense.  

For example, my brother and family just returned a week ago.  They were visited in their unit by their representative.  When my brother told his rep, that the family did not trade out, and came back every year, the rep said, "well this program would be a waste of your money".  He thanked my brother for his time....all of about 10 minutes, and wished them a great week, and headed off to the next lucky owner's villa.


----------



## Pit (Oct 26, 2006)

elaine, anytime a market is distorted, there are consequences. By preventing owners from transfering their points membership, they effectively devalue the membership. The resale value of the membership is zip, zilch, nada.

Imagine if General Motors said they would only service your vehicle, if you purchase new from GM. That would certainly have an impact on the demand (and thus prices) for used cars, as many potential buyers would avoid resales.

The phrase "converting to points" simply means you sign a contract to relinquish the use of your week in exchange for some number of points. For this priviledge, you apparently must pay $1300 or $7000 (resale owner). Your real-estate interest is still the owned week.

By making the contract non-transferrable, someone who buys your unit resale would only get the deeded week. They would then have to cough up another $7K on top of the resale price to use points system. Now, how much is a resale unit worth under those conditions? There are certainly much cheaper ways to get into RCI Points. And, unlike OLCC Global Access, a standard RCI Points membership can be transferred to the next owner.

One result will be a lot of unconverted weeks, especially resale weeks. Many of those weeks will end up in the RCI Weeks inventory.


----------



## timetraveler (Oct 26, 2006)

while some of what you say is definitely true Pit, remember there are thousands of OL families that are not interested in a points system.  Much depends on age, etc.  

At the same time , there's a large market of potential buyers not interested in purchasing into a points system, whether that be via resale or from a developer.  Owning a deeded week is exactly what they want.

At this point, I don't see purchasing a resale unit that does not grandfather in a conversion a negative.


----------



## rickandcindy23 (Oct 26, 2006)

Any time you pay for something to add to the value of your timeshare, you want to feel that it will do just that.  If you go to sell and that added value does not transfer, it diminishes the value of your week to the new buyer.  

I know that PAHIO makes a big deal out of RCI points at their presentation and make it known that a resale buyer cannot get the points with the sale of the property.  I would have paid more for a week that was converted, if the points would have transferred.  But as it is, I cannot ever convert my weeks to points.  They will not allow it with any resale purchase, supposedly for any price.  That is their policy, I respect it, obviously, because we own 3 1/2 weeks with PAHIO.  We went in with our eyes wide open.  

For that person paying $36,995 or whatever the price is right now for a two-bedroom at Bali Hai, they will get the points, but if they try to resell it with the points, they will not be able to do it.  That lessens the value of what they own.  Of course, the salesmen/women make it seem as if the value is in the points.  How can they ask that much money for something, brag up the value of RCI points, then not allow the points to transfer?


----------



## gjw007 (Oct 27, 2006)

Pit said:
			
		

> And, unlike OLCC Global Access, a standard RCI Points membership can be transferred to the next owner.
> 
> One result will be a lot of unconverted weeks, especially resale weeks. Many of those weeks will end up in the RCI Weeks inventory.


As surprising as it may sound and as Cindy has pointed out, not all RCI Points memberships are transferable with the sale of the property as well.  There was a thread on here or on timeshareforums about somebody looking to buy at Summer Bay and when investigating found out that they had to pay $7000 to get into the points system.  Even though it was a points unit, the points didn't transfer.  It seems to depend on each resort whether the points are transferable on resale or not.  It certainly lowers the value and desirability of the resale for those people looking for a RCI Points-based resort if the points are not transferred on a converted unit.  In addition, in my opinion, the original cost of conversion should have been less than $500.  These figures of $7000 are crazy.  I do think that any unit in any resort that has converted to points where the points don't transfer is a negative.  Cindy's example and the Summer Bay situation are perfect examples of this and it would apply to OLCC if it follows this process.  It will be curious to see the long-term effect of this as it may prompt purchases of other resorts further lowering the resale value of the resorts that follow the process by making them less desirable from a points perspective.  This may be a bonus to those who are only looking for weeks resorts as there may be less competition for the resort and at a lower price so there is also a flip side as well.


----------



## rickandcindy23 (Oct 27, 2006)

Gary, isn't it ironic!     A perfect example is Fairfield.  I notice that some resorts that are affiliated with Fairfield sell for more as a week without points.  One example is Kona Hawaiian Village, great resort, which sells for about $6K.  You can buy points for far less than that and either trade into Kona or you can buy Kona with points and pay less.  Although I did recently see a week without points sell for a low price on ebay and was surprised by it.  The usual buyers were absent in bidding on that one.  I think the week sold for about $2K? 

I was talking to PA- yesterday and asked if PAHIO, which was recently purchased by Wyndham, could possibly become a Worldmark resort, which was a great prospect for us because we would get lots of Worldmark points.  PA- pointed out that we would be better off selling our weeks for what we paid and buying Worldmark points resale, if PAHIO became a Worldmark (big if).  I didn't have much time to think about it on the phone, but when I was contemplating what he said, I realized that he was very right.  Points would definitely diminish the value of our weeks, no matter what point system it is.  

It is just annoying to go to the sales spiel at PAHIO and have them talk about RCI points as if they were the greatest idea to come along since the light bulb, then tell us: 1) You bought resale and cannot ever convert your weeks to points.  2) You cannot buy a week and get the points transferred to you.  3) If you give your week to your kids, they have to pay $2,500 to transfer points to their name.  4) Any other person who buys your week will not get your points (if you buy from us today).  

So they tell you it is valuable, but then tell you that it is no value to you when you need to sell.     RCI should not have allowed resorts to make these points non-transferable.


----------



## gjw007 (Oct 27, 2006)

Cindy;

I would be curious if any of the points systems are done through the HOAs and if so, how they differ from those that are done through the developers.  The difference, if any, could be enlightening.  I'm not sold on the points system as I don't believe the one-size-fits-all mentality works for everybody as applied in the points concept but every resort I own now has a points-based system of some sort.  The only points-based system that I think of as a true points-based system is my DVC ownership as you purchase the number of points and not weeks that are converted into points.  Your example of the Fairfield resort is very ironic.  I do think it is also ironic that I couldn't make a GoGlobal reservation for May 25, 2007 but I could go through GoGlobal and make an exchange through RCI for a unit at OLCC.  It does seem a little silly but I guess that is what is to expected during the early growth phase.  It certainly doesn't provide the monetary savings I expected going through this route (it's effectively the same as before except I added a third party into the exchange since the weeks available are weeks units).

I had commented to the GoGlobal person that I had talked to about why they didn't have dual-affiliation with RCI and Interval International.  He expressed surprise that there were resorts that were dual-affiliated.  As long as the resort is going to have the membership with the exchange companies, by being dual-affiliated it increases the value of the membership as there are more opportunities for exchanging.  While I doubt that anything will come of this discussion, it at least presented the notion to another individual.  As Jim noted, it appears that OLCC has entered a long-term agreement with RCI but I think these things are redone periodically, perhaps every 5 years or so.  DVC was initially RCI but changed to II when its contract with RCI ran out and RCI seems to be charging for everything, including the opportunity to talk to them.  Well maybe not quite that harsh but it does seem that they have left very few items untouched by a charge.


----------



## Bill4728 (Oct 27, 2006)

gjw007 said:
			
		

> ....  The only points-based system that I think of as a true points-based system is my DVC ownership as you purchase the number of points and not weeks that are converted into points.  Your example of the Fairfield resort is very ironic.



There are several point based systems which are pure points and not associated with a deeded property.

Worldmark, Club Intrawest and Monarch Grand Vacation are just three which come to mind. In all three, if you buy in, you are a points owner just like any other points owner. One thing that the developer is able to control is the fee to transfer the account to the new owner. MGV & WM both charge a very reasonable $100, Club Intrawest charges ~$700.


----------



## gjw007 (Oct 27, 2006)

Bill4728 said:
			
		

> There are several point based systems which are pure points and not associated with a deeded property.
> 
> Worldmark, Club Intrawest and Monarch Grand Vacation are just three which come to mind. In all three, if you buy in, you are a points owner just like any other points owner. One thing that the developer is able to control is the fee to transfer the account to the new owner. MGV & WM both charge a very reasonable $100, Club Intrawest charges ~$700.


Bill;

You are correct and I should have rephrased it as it appears that I thought only Disney had a pure points-based system.  I had only meant to use it as an example of a points-based system that is not associated with a specific week and as a comparison against points-based systems such as RCI Points that are based on the values given for a specific week and unit type.  There are other pure points based systems as well such as Hilton's where you can buy a specific number of points based on what you feel your needs are.  Instead of "system is my DVC", I should have used "systems are points-based systems such as my DVC" ownership.  It would have been helpful if I had also provided additional organization such as HGVC to support the position.


----------



## Mel (Nov 12, 2006)

Just got back from Hilton Head, and almost bought points there - a moment of weakness.  However, what changed our ming was a call to each of our home resorts - one of them being Orange Lake.  We were interested in Points for Deposit, but know if OLCC joined points, we would no longer be able to do that.  When we mentioned that to our salesman, he immediately understood why we were rescinding.  No PFD would be a deal breaker.

edited to add - I just checked RCI's online directory, and indeed both the new OLCC resort code (River Island) and the old #0670, are now listed as points.  So no PFD for Orange Lake! 

Anyway, we have been West Village owners since 1991, purchased resale.  As I said, we contacted both out resorts to see where they are headed, and OLCC will be sending a package about Global Access.  They indicated it would cost us $1295 to convert, not the $5000 or $7000 others are stating.  The rep that DH spoke to pulled our account up at the time (and even changed our address and phone number for us while we were on the line), so if they plan to charge more for those who bought resale, why did he quote us $1295?  I suspect that may be the fee to convert a unit in River Island (the new resort code) if you ever find a resale there - don't expect that for a few years.  As for older units (the first 3 HOA's) I would expect all owners to be treated equally.  With the River Island units, they can build it into the new sales contracts, but not with the old units, and I don't see the HOA members selling out a portion of the owners.  That would be grounds for a lawsuit, as they wouldn't be fulfilling their fiduciary responsibilities.

And as for the price going up soon, I doubt it.  They haven't sent the information out to owners yet.  Yet again, another lawsuit if they offer the lower price to only some owners, and raise the price before the main mailing goes out.  Right now they're concentrating on the new owners, and will pull the rest of us along.

The $1295 would get us a slight increase in points over PFD (our week 40 is worth  66,500 vs 57,500 for PFD).  Of course PFD is now no longer available.

I'll post back once I get the packet from OLCC, and have a chance to digest it.


----------



## Mel (Nov 13, 2006)

Just got my disclure guide for Global Access, and read through quickly.

Here are a few things to note:

Annual fee of $89, does not include RCI membership.
If you use OLCC mostly, this is balanced by $40 internal reservation fee it not using your owned week.  If you exchange extenally most of the time, it may not be worth it, unless you can use last call weeks.

Initiation (conversion) fee - $1295 per unit/week.  This is set in the disclosure guide.  It is waived if you purchase a week from the resort - it looks like they waive it for all owned weeks being converted at that time.  However, they included a copy of that contract. 

You can list up to 6 people on your membership, just as with RCI points, so this is a benefit if you have others who will use your points/weeks.

Initiation fee is waived with additional purchase - but if you default on that purchase agreement, you lose your membership for all other weeks that were converted for free.  you can still participate with those weeks if you pay the initiation fee for each of those weeks.  Of course, if you let that happen, you have other problems to deal with.

Will be back if I notice anything else interesting upon further reading


----------



## lawgs (Nov 20, 2006)

*just got back from OLCC...Global Access*

we were asked to go for more "one on one" information about global access ( no in room visit from the ONE time "rep" assigned to make sure we signed up for "sales" tour )

river island week converts for 1295$, west village week since it was a resale converts for 1295$ plus 5000$, to ths you have to add the 89$ fee, but if we were to upgrade our river island week, it would do two things 

one put us in the secondary tier of the new "stratified" program for multi week owners (lil perks one of which includes "one free upgrade" at no cost per year ...eg book a 2 bedroom get upgraded to 3 bedroom, of course all this would be subject to availability )

two all of the above change fees would be waived but cost would be 8000$~ since they use the "going rate" MSRP ( 21000 approximately for a two  bedroom ) for the high season/pool view unit but give "equity" for the river island unit

basically the fee is waived as the "first day" incentive to buyers ( liars can figure and figures can lie )...the ole line you cannot get this if you come back later...????

we suggested that they include the tier information in the global access disclousure booklet, but even the sheet the sales rep had was on a photo copy ( which did not look impressive )....it seems to be similar to the VIP program at Fairfield, giving perks to "high point" owners

the sales reps manager even joked that he has one owner who has over two million points and they are going  to create a new category in the tier system to "coddle" these influential owners....one thing mentioned was the ability to book "into" the three (3) "re done/upgraded" four (4 ) bedroom units facing the pool complex and located on the TOP floor


----------



## Mel (Nov 21, 2006)

Well, what you were told was a lie.  I have a contract in hand, which was sent when we called to ask for details.  Our total cost to convert our resale West Village week is the $1295 plus $89 first year membership fee.  I don't know where they're coming up with the $5000, but it's just not true.

This is the difference between talking with the customer service people and the sales people.  The sales people want above all to sell you a new unit - that's where the money is.  They wanted you to think you were comparing $8000 to upgrade vs. (5000 +1295+1295) or $7590.  For $410 you would get the multi-week program, but aren't you already a multi-week owner?  

Further if this "tier" information is not i the disclosures, it's probably not worth the paper it's written on.   Not that I would buy into these lies, but if I did I would make sure the "tier" information was written into the contract.


----------



## lawgs (Nov 21, 2006)

*someone at OLCC  does not know what is happening...or so it seems*

just spoke to a Global Access Counsellor ( BJ) , who said that any resale unit that you want to bring over into global access is charged the 5000$ fee in addition to the 1295$ and 89$ fee that you mentioned....

seems you are getting a great deal if you have a signed contract and can get this conversion of a resale property for 1295$ + 89$ for a resale west village unit....take the money and run


when they brought the equity sheet to the table, the first thing the sales manager said since our west village unit was a resale, there would be a added conversion fee of 5000$ in addition to the 1295$ fee ( at one poiont in this global access epic, someone implied  that people who had purchased into river island prior to the implementation of global access were to be "grandfathered" if they wanted to convert, but, it seems now that it was just some "stuff" that was not true although at the time, it was posted as "gospel" , something you could take to the bank )

if we resell the unit after conversion, the new owner does not get the global access with it, they have to start back at square one as a fixed week owner

perhaps a name/reference connected to your "contract" in hand might assist us in getting the same deal...


----------



## Mel (Nov 21, 2006)

I suspect the State of Florida would be interested in hearing that they're planning on charging extra for resale units.  The $1295 conversion fee is listed directly in the disclosure guide.  It indicates that 25 unit weeks from each section of the resort were initially part of the program - I'm assuming developer weeks, and that the program will be included in future sales.  It also indicated that the program would be marketed to all existing week owners at the stated conversion price.  I don't think the state would look too kindly on them treating owners differently based on the source of their week.  I suspect they are assuming you can't complain because you will be signing the contract before you read the complete disclosures, as so many people often do.

I would press the issue, if you're interested in joining.  There is no additional cost to them whether you bought your West Village unit from them or somebody else.  Either way, they made their money off the original sale back in the 80's or early 90's.  The only other thing I can think of is if there is a difference between HOA 1 weeks and HOA 2.  Notice that North Village and the original East Village units have not been severed from resort ID 0670 yet, probably because it requires a vote of the respective HOA boards, of which OLCC management only has nominal control.  And again, if the HOA members vote to allow $5000 conversion fees, they are failing their fiduciary responsibilities to the general HOA membership.

The disclosure guide does say the program can be transferred to an immediate family member for I think $100, but is otherwise non-transferrable.


----------



## lawgs (Nov 21, 2006)

*rci rep at olcc*

the rci rep we spoke to at OLCC said they are in the process of "implementing" the other resort ids for north and east villages as well as the lake geneva property recently acquired ( although the rci computers do not seem to speak to the olcc computers with respect to river island #8881 ), thus the check in process can get "dicey"

the sales manager we spoke to confirmed this along with the additional information that other resort acquistions are in the "pipe line"

he also cautioned us that the price would be going up, that the 1295$ rate was an introductory offer to which we replied .....sales are probably gonna take a "nose dive" once january comes around

he then added that anyone purchasing in 2007 would not be included in the program until 2008 ( use year with them seems to be january 1st )...that seemed strange to us

we found the figures they were throwing out now ( since the resort is being occupied we presume ) are much different to "buy in" to river island quoted to us last january


----------



## Mel (Nov 22, 2006)

I would take anything a sales manager tells you with a grain of salt.  Yes, the initiation fee may go up sometime soon, but I wouldn't worry about it jumping that high.  Owners will have a fit if they find out they were NEVER offered the opportunity to join at this rate.  The only reason I know anything about Global Access is through this website, and by calling the resort directly to ask.  No information has been sent out directly to owners - I would expect that to happen sometime in early 2007, as any mailings would need to go through the HOA, and may need HOA approval.

The cover letter we received with our ownership packet said to contact our owner scecialinst, Willie Gonzales, at 800-877-6522, ext 1604 with any questions.  I suppose you could contact him as well, about your resale week.

On reading the Membership Agreement (application), I see the following:

Due to yur purchase of_____ on today's date, the Membership Initiation Fee for each of the Timeshare Periods being assigned to GlobalAccess Exchange has been waived.  In the event of a default under the purchase agreement for Unit/Week____, your membership in the Global Access Exchange Protram shal terminate as to each Timeshare Interest assigned hereunder.  In the event of such default, you may still participate in the GlobalAccess Exchange Program using your Timeshare Interests not in dafault, however, payment of the $1,295 membership Initiation Fee for each Timeshare Interest assigned to GlobalAccess Exchange, LLC shal be required.

We already knew they would waive the fee if you upgrade or purchase, this just spells it out.  Again, 1295 oer unit/week.

On page 2 of same application, it lists the allocation of points for the first year, as of the date of conversion - if you already deposited your weeks to RCI, they can't be converted, but RCI may allow a points for deposit into your RCI points account.

GA points are allocated according to the following scale:

90+ days in advance = full GA Points
60-89 days = 75%
30-59 days =50%
0-29 days - no GA points will be allocated.

According to the discosures, all GA memberships will be January 1 use year, but you would still get points for your 2007 weeks.  Maybe they make them all use year 2008 points, but it doesn't matter since you can borrow them to use now anyway.  On page 3 - Reservations with a start date greater than 90 days from the dare of this Agreement is signed will automatically be assigned to GlobalAccess Exchange.. on page 2 you have the option to tell them how you plan to use those weeks (if you've already exchanged them or play to use them).  So again, your salesperson didn't know what he was talking about.  If I join in March 2008, my October 2008 week would be in GlobalAccess.

I think the problem is that you spoke with Sales staff, while we spoke with owner services.  The two groups serve VERY different functions.


----------



## lawgs (Nov 22, 2006)

*interesting conversation with willie gonzales*

in calling OLCC Global Access, they were able to transfer me to "willie" gonzales ( now he did say there were two willie gonzales there ...father son )

the fee is 1295$ for each unit week

if the unit week was bought on the resale market and not from OLCC sales  there is a 5000$ conversion fee in addition to the 1295 Membership Intiation Fee

he did say, however, that some resales may "slip through the cracks", if the department/support staff handling the "equity" requests do not see it as a resale as the unit might have been registered using something called a "quit claim deed" in which case any amount can be attached to such a deed

when the owner specialist get requests, they pass it along to another department to process who then send ouit the Global Access Exchange Program Membership Agreements ( which i guess is what you said you got from them ), this was the step where Willie suggested someone might not have "caught" that  an unit is actually a resale week

thus,  our sales agent was not necessarily lying as suggested, but just following OLCC policy on resale units some of which might slip through the cracks as mentioned above as an analomy when the "equity" slip is checked .....he definately said ours was a resale unit when he got the "paper" from his support staff

in passing, willie suggested this was OLCC and Global Access way of making sure there were not a flood of resale units bought for cheap $$$ being used to get into the  $$$$$$$ program

if you can get signed up with a resale week without having to pay the 5000$ administration "grab", congratulations....take the deal and run....

we were just sharing what our experience was.....even after talking to willie, we would still have to pay the 7689$~ to convert to global access....if we so choose to do it


----------



## gjw007 (Nov 22, 2006)

When I was there in September, the GoGlobal representative had also said there was a $5000 charge for resales.  He didn't say anything about an additional $1295 and I didn't ask.  Initially they were trying to sell me another unit to bump me up to the next level with a studio for $10,000.  At that price, I asked why couldn't I just buy a West Village resale for a couple thousand dollars and then pay the $1295.  I told then about the $5000 charge but unless purchasing directly from OLCC where all my weeks would be put in the GoGlobal program, I would have had to spend $1295 per ownership week.  Clearly it was designed to discourage the purchase of resales just to get into the GoGlobal programs but I'm wondering if there is a time frame for owners who may have purchased resale 5 or 10 years ago.  Are they still considered resale for this purpose?  Just some thoughts with no answers.


----------



## Mel (Nov 22, 2006)

It may well be worth contacting the State Regulatore - the Florida Timeshare Bureau.  It is ridiculous to treat owners of the same resort (and members of the same HOA) differently.  As GA is a separate entity from Orange Lake (the developer) and Wilson Management (the management company), and even more from the HOA's that control the units, I don't see where they could legally be entitle to charge different fees.  GA doesn't have an existing relationship with ANY of the owners from the first 2 condo associations (all the West Village units), and those have been sold out for years.

My unit was transferred back in 1992 via a Warranty Deed, not a Quit Claim.  So I don't know how we "fell through the cracks" unless they're basing the $5000 on owners telling them how they got their weeks.  When DH talked to Willie, or whoever else he spoke with, they stated the fees would be waived if we wanted to upgrade, but then suggested that we probably wouldn't want to given what we originally paid.  Sounds to me like they should have know ours was a resale, but then maybe they were assuming we paid the original asking price of only $6,000 - that's the amount of the loan the original owner took out with them in 1986.  Unfortunately, once they've got you pegged as a resale purchaser, you're probably stuck with the fee, unless they are forced to back off.  

Further, their logic is backwards.  If resales can be converted for $1295, that increases the value of resales, pushing resale prices up.  Yes, there are some who would purchase just to gain access to RCI points through GlobalAccess, but if anything the $5000 is more likely to simply cause existing owners to avoid converting.  The $1295 fee would convince more to convert, and might actually cause some to keep their weeks rather than resell.  With that $5000 hanging over my head, I would be more likely to sell my week and pick up a cheap Vacation Village at Parkway week on eBay, complete with conversion, and end up with more points.  It still might make more sense than a $1295 conversion, though I like my OLCC week.


----------



## timeos2 (Nov 22, 2006)

lawgs said:
			
		

> in calling OLCC Global Access, they were able to transfer me to "willie" gonzales ( now he did say there were two willie gonzales there ...father son )
> 
> the fee is 1295$ for each unit week
> 
> ...



When you hear a sales pitch that pulls all this kind of smoke and mirrors, various pricing schemes and levels or class of owners it says only one thing. Avoid this place like a plague.  It's the Wyndham "VIP" game that only benefits Wyndhams bottom line and plays to the vanity in the sucker - er, buyer to be.  If they had a real program to offer it would be at $XXXX for any owner period. If the true value was what they say resales would be at that amount or higher.  This says they, like any good car salesman, will play the mark for the maximum possible value and never let on that the bottom line is a low number that they could have offered at the start.


----------



## rickandcindy23 (Nov 23, 2006)

PAHIO does not allow conversions to RCI points for any resale buyer, at any price.  They also do not allow the transfer of points.  This really hurts the person wanting to sell, especially after the ridiculous sales spiel, telling you how great the system is.  Of course, there is no mention that if your kids inherit after your death, they have to pay a fee of about that $1,295.  

This is a resort that is now owned by Wyndham.  What else can they do to us as resale owners?  I guess they will think of something.  

They get by with it, RCI allows them to keep points only for developer sales.  That is a really bad thing for RCI to do to their own system.  They have totally lost control, if you ask me.   We would have paid so much more for our weeks, if only we could have gotten points.


----------



## JLB (Nov 23, 2006)

I've been quietly following.  A couple of things.

First, from personal experience I can tell you that those in charge of Timeshare and Vacation Clubs in the State of Florida, despite a wonderful statute protecting the consumer, appear to have no interest in enforcing any of it.  But that makes sense, being as Florida is the vacation state, that they would drag their heels on enforcing stuff against powerful vacation companies.  You can bet that that includes family names such as Wilson and Seigel.

Just ask yourself if misleading timeshare sales practices are still being employed in Orlando.

Two, it seems that in our lengthy discussions we have lost sight of the benefits of GlobalAccess.  There have been beaucoup discussions about what it costs to convert, and, of course, the confusion over that continues, but what are the benefits of converting, for any fee.  Can someone post a concise list as to why a person would be better with Global access that just straight RCI Weeks?


----------



## gjw007 (Nov 24, 2006)

JLB said:
			
		

> Two, it seems that in our lengthy discussions we have lost sight of the benefits of GlobalAccess.  There have been beaucoup discussions about what it costs to convert, and, of course, the confusion over that continues, but what are the benefits of converting, for any fee.  Can someone post a concise list as to why a person would be better with Global access that just straight RCI Weeks?


Jim;

This is actually a very good suggestion.  I hope you and everybody online had a Happy Thanksgiving.  I will give a start but I'll look at general benefits, neutrals, and some negative on the GoGlobal program rather than specific comparisons to RCI.

Assuming only 1 OLCC week ownership and assumes that the week is exchanged regularly.

*Benefits*


Lower exchange fees ($40 versus $164) than RCI
Ability to exchange for type of unit needed (i.e. 1-bedroom rather than 2) giving the ability to have more vacation exchanges
Vacation may start on dates other than Friday, Saturday, or Sunday
No GoGlobal fees for exchanging with RCI but current RCI fees apply
Ability to borrow points to meet vacation needs up to 50% of your annual allocation
No need to book an entire week as stays can be as short as 2 days or as many days as you have points
Not a downtrade when going from a high demand week to a lower demand week as less points are needed for the lower demand week
No cost to use your ownership week if reservation made 12 to 13 months in advance
Access to any unit in the resort that you own from 10 to 12 months (there are some items listed like 7 night stay and arrive at resort checkin days which have been Friday, Saturday, and Sunday in the post)
Open access to any OLCC GoGlobal resorts from 60 days to 10 months with a minimum of 2 night stay or a RCI Points resort with a minimum of 1-night stay.
Instant access where up to 59 days in advance of vacation there will be periodic discounts on GoGlobal Points
Global Shield provided points protection ($25) if you cancel the vacation up to 2 days prior to the vacation.  All points returned to account.
Exchange to RCI weeks and RCI Points resorts through GoGlobal
Trade points to GoGlobal partners (really RCI Partners but done through GoGlobal like the RCI Weeks and RCI Points are done)
VIP vacations are offered periodically - not a lot of information about this program.
Ability to bank and borrow points from the previous year and the next use year.
Easy to determine GoGlobal and RCI Points relationship as GoGlobal is twice the RCI Points requirement so just multiple RCI Points requirements by 2 to determine the equivalent GoGlobal requirement
Ability to exchange non-OLCC units into GoGlobal points

*Neutral *(depending on view could be positive or negative)


Last date to make exchange with RCI is October 31 using this year's GoGlobal points.
Fee schedule for housekeeping (i.e. no fee for using fixed week or first 7-day stay at a GoGlobal Access resort or for first stay for less than a 7-night stay at the home resort but there is a housekeeping fee of $40 for stays less than 7 days in a Global Access Resort)
Limited selection of weeks that the unit may trade into (see negative under trading power) but this depends on the week as a week owned in high demand can trade anytime but a week in low demand is extremely limited

*Negatives.*


Always have to make a reservation - the week owned will not be available to use without making the reservation
Once a RCI exchange has been made, if canceled, the points don't return to GoGlobal but will remain with RCI for future exchanges.  No details on this aspect of the program
Initial cost of program
Lose access to RCI's bonus program
There are additional costs to run the program.  Ultimate OLCC owners will pay for this either in increased exchange fees or higher maintenance fees
May lose trading power.  Example week 50 (a low demand week) can be traded for week 51 (high demand week) or week 20 (medium demand week) under the Weeks program but under the Points program, the points given for week 50 are not enough points to get week 51 (or any other high demand week) or week 20 (or any other medium demand week) without borrowing or renting points (additional cost).  This depends on the week as a high demand week can trade anytime
Continuing concept of losing trading power.  Cannot trade a studio (or a 1-bedroom or 2-bedroom unit or in the general case, a smaller unit) for a 3-bedroom unit (in the general case, a larger units) as exchanges are based on points.  In the weeks system, owners have been able to use RCI to exchange to larger unit for only the exchange fee.


----------



## Mel (Nov 24, 2006)

Negative -

Once you join GA, they can prevent you from exchanging through any other exchange company.  They list RCI, and I don't see that as a problem, but as with almost any points program, you give them the right to your week for the duration. I could see the argument on the part of the smaller exchange companies, but by the wording of the contract, they can refuse to recognize any other exchange program.

Positive - as mentioned before, the internal exchange fee of $40 - a significant percentage of visitors to Orange Lake are owners, either using their own weeks or exchanging back in.  

I also like the ability to use what you need when you need it.  For families, this means you use your points one week each year for a 3BR unit.  Later, when the kids are out of the house, you use it for several stays, shorter or longer, in smaller units.  Having done the parks without kids (and having sent MIL and FIL with another couple) I know the parks can be great without the extended family, a very different experience, plus it might be enjoyable to just visit the resort.


----------



## rickandcindy23 (Nov 25, 2006)

I have to add, even if PAHIO allowed us to convert to points, we would not now, especially at a price of $5K.  We would also never pay $1,295 each to convert our four weeks.  I might consider paying $2,500 to convert all at once, but no more than that.  Here is why.....

We purchased Mansfield Country Resort in Australia for less than $3K for 91,800 RCI points annually at a cost of 76/100 of a cent each in maintenance fees.  The price included our membership fee, first year of maintenance fees and closing costs.  

With PAHIO, our cost per point would not be much of a deal, more like 9/10 per point.  That is not a great deal for us.  

Basically, if you can buy into a points system for a lot less than a conversion, it seems wise to choose that direction.  I think some would agree with that.  The bonus is really that we can use our RCI weeks for PFD.


----------



## JLB (Nov 25, 2006)

I guess that's why a lot of us OFs like Weeks!


----------



## Mel (Nov 25, 2006)

rickandcindy23 said:
			
		

> We purchased Mansfield Country Resort in Australia for less than $3K for 91,800 RCI points annually at a cost of 76/100 of a cent each in maintenance fees.  The price included our membership fee, first year of maintenance fees and closing costs.
> 
> With PAHIO, our cost per point would not be much of a deal, more like 9/10 per point.  That is not a great deal for us.
> 
> Basically, if you can buy into a points system for a lot less than a conversion, it seems wise to choose that direction.  I think some would agree with that.  The bonus is really that we can use our RCI weeks for PFD.


With both our resorts moving to points, we don't have the option of PFD, but conversion may not be so bad after all, once you consider the cost of buying into another resort - what we would pay out of pocket in closing costs, etc.

The cheapest points resale on eBay right now (closing is 6 hours) is $275, including closing costs.  That would get us 23,400 points, but with an annual fee of $442 or $18.89 per 1000 points.  If we could find 3 such resales, we would be spending $900 or so to buy in, but would end up with annual fees around $1300.  Converting Orange Lake would get us slightly less points (5,000 or so), cost $400 initially, but save us $600 in fees each year.

Looking at what's available on eBay, the cheap weeks have fees in the range of $18-30 per 1000.  The exception seems to be Orlando units!  Vacation Village at Parkway, which is less than $10 per 1000 points, as is Orange Lake.


----------



## snippet (Nov 28, 2006)

I've been trying to keep up with this thread and I'm not sure I understand it all.  I've got a developer week in the West Village and I'm thinking I might want to convert to GA since I trade this week.  Would I still need to keep my RCI membership?  It expires at the end of December but I've still got 2 two weeks banked.   I certainly don't want those weeks to go to waste, so I'd want the banked weeks to transfer somehow.


----------



## gjw007 (Nov 28, 2006)

snippet said:
			
		

> I've been trying to keep up with this thread and I'm not sure I understand it all.  I've got a developer week in the West Village and I'm thinking I might want to convert to GA since I trade this week.  Would I still need to keep my RCI membership?  It expires at the end of December but I've still got 2 two weeks banked.   I certainly don't want those weeks to go to waste, so I'd want the banked weeks to transfer somehow.


You can keep your RCI membership but you may wish, if you go GoGlobal, to see if they will transfer your banked weeks into the GoGlobal program.  I had banked my upcoming December week and they transferred it into GoGlobal points.  If so, then you wouldn't need two accounts unless you like to keep the RCI for the Bonus Weeks.  I would talk to the GoGlobal people and find out what your options are.  In general, for me, I determined that since I trade the weeks, it would pay for itself in less than 10 years and was therefore worth the cost but if you don't exchange often, I think it is too expensive.


----------



## Mel (Nov 28, 2006)

snippet said:
			
		

> Would I still need to keep my RCI membership?  It expires at the end of December but I've still got 2 two weeks banked.   I certainly don't want those weeks to go to waste, so I'd want the banked weeks to transfer somehow.


Yes, you would need to keep your RCI membership, though it would be converted to and RCI Points membership.  Those 2 banked weeks may or may not be convertable to points through PFD.  If not, you would still trade them through RCI Weeks.  

If you want to trade to anything outside of Orange Lake's mini system (the 4 internal resort areas and Wisconsin), you will still need an RCI membership.  GA makes sense if you do a lot of internal trades, but for external trades you won't save money.  The advantage there is in the points - either combing to trade up, or splitting for a trade-down.  As an external trader, you'll be paying $89 more per year in membership fees, and still pay RCI's exchange fees (points or weeks).


----------



## gjw007 (Nov 28, 2006)

The information provided by GoGlobal is unclear in this area as suggested by the difference in Mel's post and mine.  When I read the information, it appears to me that OLCC has a GoGlobal corporate account where you make your reservation with RCI through GoGlobal and not directly through RCI.  This is the approach used by Hilton, Disney, and I believe Fairfield where the individual doesn't have a RCI account (in Disney case II).  Going through GoGlobal allows the exchange of both RCI Weeks and RCI Points resorts and not just RCI Weeks as is currently done for non-GoGlobal accounts.

I could be wrong on this so when I am at OLCC in a little over a week, I will ask (if you call, I would ask about it for clarification).  I didn't ask enough questions about this when talking to the GoGlobal reps as it seemed to follow the pattern suggested above and my Disney ownership operated with the corporate account and I was told the same on the Hilton tour where the owner didn't need the individual membership.  Since I needed the RCI membership for my RCI Points account for Vacation Village, I never pursued the question about exchanges further.


----------



## nanook (Dec 19, 2006)

Hello,
  I didn’t want to bump an old thread but I am looking for some advice.  I am serious thinking about converting my OL week to Global access.  It is a resale week and the contract I have in front of me will only charge me the 1295. 

I have not had any experience with RCI points or any other points, my two weeks (at two different places) are weeks only.  Recently we have been frustrated by not knowing how strong our weeks will trade and not getting where we want.  
Do points solve this by letting everyone know how many points each resort requires? 
 If this is true then the only limiting factor is inventory of a desired resort if you have the correct amount of points? 
Finally, how has everyone’s experience been with obtain their desired resort if you call far enough out?

Thanks


----------



## JLB (Dec 19, 2006)

I am not an OL owner, nor did I stay in a Holiday Inn Express last night.  

But, if all the bragging about how great OL trades in Weeks is even half true, it seems that switching to Points would hurt you, in that your points would be no different than other resorts' points.  But, this is only true if OL really does have the type of trading power that some have indicated on this board the past 8 years.

Just curious, do you search for yourself online at RCI.com, or do you just rely on ongoing searches or the word of a Guide?  There is no reason for you to wonder what your trading power is when you can search for yourself and see what it is.





			
				nanook said:
			
		

> Recently we have been frustrated by not knowing how strong our weeks will trade and not getting where we want.


----------



## timetraveler (Dec 19, 2006)

nanook...what are you looking for and cannot seem to secure with your OL weeks?

We've owned at OL since the early 90's and have always gotten what we wanted as far as trades.  I will admit that we don't like to travel during peak school breaks and never have traded anything in our TS portfolio for any of those times.  I'd rather stay home and avoid the screaming tots.     Been there, done that already.   We are back into being a couple and enjoying each other mode.


----------



## timeos2 (Dec 19, 2006)

*Points make the whole process easier  - buy in at right price*



			
				nanook said:
			
		

> Hello,
> I didn’t want to bump an old thread but I am looking for some advice.  I am serious thinking about converting my OL week to Global access.  It is a resale week and the contract I have in front of me will only charge me the 1295.
> 
> I have not had any experience with RCI points or any other points, my two weeks (at two different places) are weeks only.  Recently we have been frustrated by not knowing how strong our weeks will trade and not getting where we want.
> Do points solve this by letting everyone know how many points each resort requires?



Yes. It is one of the features I find the best about all points based systems. We have managed to buy into three different points systems that now cover all our ownerships at a total cost of less than $3500. It has been a great deal.  



			
				nanook said:
			
		

> If this is true then the only limiting factor is inventory of a desired resort if you have the correct amount of points?



Correct. But the chance it WILL be there to reserve is much greater in points since the units that convert are committed to the system unlike weeks which are far less likely to be deposited in any given year. Plus the better, higher demand resorts get more points again making it more likely they will actually be used for trade vs owner use. 



			
				nanook said:
			
		

> Finally, how has everyone’s experience been with obtain their desired resort if you call far enough out?
> 
> Thanks



We have had great luck with all of our points based systems. We were very happy when RCI came up with points that allowed resorts that were otherwise stuck in the weeks world to be take part. Now all of our weeks have the option of being traded as points and we prefer it that way. Works great.


----------



## lawgs (Dec 20, 2006)

*would get that conversion fee "verified"*

nanook

it might be wise to get a name attached to that offer of 1295$ for your resale, since we were told when we were there dec 2 - 9, that yes we can convert, but it would cost us 5000$ plus 1295 for our west village resale week and 1295$ for our upgraded river island unit ( perhaps some resales fall through the cracks since they were registered as quit claim deeds )

our west village unit had the "resale" notation attached to the equity sheet 

the angle they gave us to avoid these fees was to upgrade one of our units at a cost of  low value of 7000$ or more if it was a high season week and get all fees waived ( this would be all interest free and payable over a year, the first paragraph option would have to be paid UPFRONT )


----------



## rickandcindy23 (Dec 20, 2006)

I think it is very tacky that any resort would consider resale as a reason to charge more for a conversion.  I also find it unacceptable and shocking that resale owners are getting charged different amounts for conversion and do not have a set policy for resale conversions.

At least with Bali Hai they discriminate against all timeshare resale buyers.   

I wonder if that will change with the new Wyndham name, but for now, PAHIO just does not allow any resale buyer access to points.


----------



## JoanE (Dec 20, 2006)

*global access*

I did make the conversion to GA about six weeks ago.  When I spoke with the father and son team ( I can't remember their names), I was told that I would be awarded 158,000 GA points which can then be converted to RCI points at approximately 20,000 more points than I had originally.  and yes, that I would have to keep my membership up in RCI in order to trade thru RCI.  I felt the advantage was to gain the extra points - and if I get lucky, GA will turn into another group of resorts that I'll actually want to trade with internally.  So far, RCI has no record of my joining the GA or the increase in points. 
So far, I've loved the point system and have ended up with some good trades.
Joane


----------



## rickandcindy23 (Dec 20, 2006)

So you own at Bali Hai as well as Orange Lake?  Did you buy from PAHIO, or did you buy resale.  In other words, do you have RCI points?


----------



## gjw007 (Dec 23, 2006)

Okay, to clear up a point that Mel and I had discussed earlier.  I just got back from OLCC and Disney's Boardwalk.  OLCC's GoGlobal confirmed that a RCI membership is included in the membership but this RCI membership only applies to OLCC in the GoGlobal program and not other resorts owned.  This is similar to Hilton, Disney, and others.  I also called the GoGlobal reservation number to confirm this.  If you have other resorts, you will still need a separate RCI membership

I stayed at the Villas at Summer Bay and took the tour.  The Villas were in the worst shape of any timeshares that I have even been in and the salesperson on the tour said they don't have owners staying there.  He definitely made it appear that they treat guests there as second class citizens.  He was the only one in the resort that made this comment so I think it is his personal view.  The unit I was in had water damage around the tub and the carpet was shredding.  To be fair, I was told that they are remodeling the units and that the building I was in was the next building to be scheduled but they should never have made the room available as it gives a poor impression of the resort.  Before I had found out about the renovations, I had called maintenance and they just shrugged it off as not a problem.  I would have understood if they would have said that they were aware of it, noted that it didn't cause any problems, and that the unit was to be renovated after the first of the year but the response gave me a poor impression of Summer Bay's maintenance.  I was also told that points do not transfer on resale unless Summer Bay allows it and it costs $8000 to transfer the points.  I tried to get the salesperson to justify it but I never got an acceptable answer (I compared paying cash per night versus paying $8000 plus exchange fees) but kept pointing out the flexibility, etc., etc..

Lastly, the salespeople kept talking about Westgates poor reputation for sales and noted that they kept you there only 90 minutes.  It was most pressured sales presentation that I have ever been in and lasted over 3 hours.  While I have never been to a Westgage sales presentation, I suspect that Westgate could learn from Summer Bay!  He kept trying to get me to exchange my Vacation Village at Parkway for a Summer Bay unit but could never provide any real benefit to me as the points were roughly the same and I gained a $25,000 debt, somethings that I was not going to do.  Needless to say, I have left less than impressed with Summer Bay.  The model rooms that I saw did look nice so if you avoid the Villas at Summer Bay and stay at the other sections, you might have an enjoyable unit.

As this related to OLCC, is the need to do the research to determine if it is right for you.  Personally, I think points should transfer with ownership and that the fees should be less than $500.  I cannot see how it would payoff if it is $5000, $7000, or $8000.  I did join GoGlobal as I figured the payoff would be in less than 10 years and I have greater control, in theory, of where I get placed within the resort.  I still have not been able to secure a unit for May 25.  OLCC's GoGlobal program does not have an ongoing search capability if a unit is not currently available which means I have to call periodically to check on availability.  What a pain.

I'm not a fan, per se, of the points systems but they do add flexibility.  Whether it is beneficial requires studying the program and do some test runs to see if the program might benefit you.  It comes down to an individual choice and for some people it works and for others it doesn't.


----------



## ajsmithtx (Dec 24, 2006)

Gary

Prior to joining Global Access was week 21 your normal use week?  If so, for 2007, your deeded unit should be available.


----------



## gjw007 (Dec 24, 2006)

ajsmithtx said:
			
		

> Gary
> 
> Prior to joining Global Access was week 21 your normal use week?  If so, for 2007, your deeded unit should be available.


Tony;

Merry Christmas. No, it is not my deeded week.  I currently have weeks 7, 51, & 52.  The funny thing is that GoGlobal has no weeks, at least the last time I called, for May 25 but there are weeks available via RCI.  So in a pinch, I can always call GoGlobal, have them connect me with RCI, and then make a reservation for May 25.  A little more expensive but doable.

Even if I had week 21, you can only book your home week and unit 12 to 13 months out in advance.  At the 10 to 12 month period, you are able to book your home resort but not necessarily your home week and unit.  At less than 10 months, you are able to book any resort within the system.  As such, my week 7 is less than 10 months away.  Since GoGlobal was new, I was called in September and asked if I was going to use the week.  I have had no such calls for week 51 and week 52.  Since I am going to be going to Orlando next Xmas, I have confirmed my use of week 51.


----------



## ajsmithtx (Dec 26, 2006)

Gary

Merry Xmas to you too.

I just called this more to confirm our home week starting on May 25th.  We joined "GA" in Sept and were told that for 2007, exceptions would be made since it would not have been a year out from our home week.  We are going to use our home week, but in 2008 we will be using a different week.  This program is similiar to how we reserve our Hawaii week.  We own week 49 in Hawaii but we send them notification 14 months out and ask for a different week.


----------



## JoanE (Dec 27, 2006)

*Global points conversion*

In reply to Cindy, yes, I did buy Bali Hai for points - which at that time - converted my OL also to points.  I did buy a resale from the developer.  I'm sure that I could have gotten a better deal on ebay etc. but am very new to the whole industry (bought my first TS - OL about 3 years ago)
As I've made some decent trades and even traded into a 1 bedroom in Maui for 08, I feel as though I'm getting my money's worth anyways.
Have any advice?
Joane


----------



## ajsmithtx (Dec 28, 2006)

JoanE said:


> ... I feel as though I'm getting my money's worth anyways.
> Joane



That's how we feel, about our (Pahio) Shearwater and OLCC East Village unit.


----------



## rkd (Dec 28, 2006)

*Global Access Conversion*

I didn't find out about the Global Access thing until I called RCI to deposit my Orange Lake week into my points account and was informed I could no longer do that!   Guess that is what I get for not signing up for the e-newsletter from Orange Lake.

We paid the $1295 and converted.  Reasoning?

1) our 57,500 RCI points became 63,500 RCI points when run thru Global Access.  I am looking at that as $6000 pts. for $1295.  The $89. GA fee I am counting as "maintenance fee" for the $6000 pts.  

2) Our vacation style has changed and the ability to stay 12 nights in a 1 bdrm instead of 7 nights in a 2 bdrm meets our current needs.

3) From what I understood, if we simply kept our original week and did not convert to GA,  the RCI benefit from those points would have been lost.  While we have had many many great times at Orange Lake, our style of vacation is changing.

Even though it is a "done deal" here, if my reasoning is flawed I would like to hear.  In the very short time I have been in this group I have learned there are many savvy timeshare owners in this group and I want to learn all I can.

Regina


----------



## ajsmithtx (Dec 29, 2006)

Regina

You will do fime.  

We signed up, because after 2007 want the flexibility of using a different week, or weeks instead of week 21.


----------



## lghb (Dec 29, 2006)

What is the number to call to convert your OL week(s) into GA points for $1295.00?  We went to a owners update and that option wasn't presented.

Thanks

Gale


----------



## gjw007 (Dec 29, 2006)

lghb said:


> What is the number to call to convert your OL week(s) into GA points for $1295.00?  We went to a owners update and that option wasn't presented.
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Gale



From http://www.olcc.com/quick_links/GlobalAccess.html, Call 800.403.1561 ext. 1604.


----------



## gjw007 (Dec 29, 2006)

ajsmithtx said:


> Gary
> 
> Merry Xmas to you too.
> 
> I just called this more to confirm our home week starting on May 25th.  We joined "GA" in Sept and were told that for 2007, exceptions would be made since it would not have been a year out from our home week.  We are going to use our home week, but in 2008 we will be using a different week.  This program is similiar to how we reserve our Hawaii week.  We own week 49 in Hawaii but we send them notification 14 months out and ask for a different week.


Tony

I finally got a confirmed reservation for May 25.  Give me a call when you're there.


----------



## ajsmithtx (Dec 30, 2006)

gjw007 said:


> Tony
> 
> I finally got a confirmed reservation for May 25.  Give me a call when you're there.



Gary

I definitely will give you a call.


----------



## nanook (Jan 4, 2007)

I have another question for the board.  The Global Access folks told me I can bring into Global Access another week with a different resort for $75 and I get the RCI book value on points.  Has anyone else heard of this?

thanks


----------



## gjw007 (Jan 4, 2007)

nanook said:


> I have another question for the board.  The Global Access folks told me I can bring into Global Access another week with a different resort for $75 and I get the RCI book value on points.  Has anyone else heard of this?
> 
> thanks



I never looked much into it, but yes, I had heard that you could bring in other resorts into GA.  I don't know how many points and such you would be given or the cost.


----------



## gjw007 (Jan 4, 2007)

nanook said:


> I have another question for the board.  The Global Access folks told me I can bring into Global Access another week with a different resort for $75 and I get the RCI book value on points.  Has anyone else heard of this?
> 
> thanks



I never looked much into it, but yes, I had been told that you could bring in other resorts into GA.  I don't know how many points and such you would be given or the cost.


----------



## rickandcindy23 (Jan 4, 2007)

If the resort is not an RCI points resort, you can pay RCI $26 each year you want to use for PFD.  I assume we are talking RCI points here, with Orange Lake, even though the name is different and the point amounts are not the same as RCI, that is the exchange company, so you should not have to pay Orange Lake a thing for that privilege, it is done each year through RCI.  I hope they are not making money for something that are not really providing.


----------



## gjw007 (Jan 4, 2007)

rickandcindy23 said:


> If the resort is not an RCI points resort, you can pay RCI $26 each year you want to use for PFD.  I assume we are talking RCI points here, with Orange Lake, even though the name is different and the point amounts are not the same as RCI, that is the exchange company, so you should not have to pay Orange Lake a thing for that privilege, it is done each year through RCI.  I hope they are not making money for something that are not really providing.



Cindy;

No, we're talking GoGlobal Access (GA) points which are based on RCI Points but they are not RCI Points although they can be exchanged for RCI Points (and Weeks) resorts through GoGlobal's RCI account (in a similar manner, Fairfield points are not RCI points even though they also can be exchanged in a similar manner for RCI Points and Weeks resorts through Fairfield's RCI account).  You can deposit the unit with GA and use the points directly within Orange Lake for OLCC reservations without going through RCI.  The exchanges through GA are done through OLCC's GA program.  GA was set up to be OLCC's internal exchange company (again, in a similar fashion, Fairfield uses its points system for internal exchanges and DVC uses its point system for internal exchanges).  RCI is not the exchange company for GA as it is set up separately from RCI but there is a link where GA owners can make RCI reservations.

I do agree with Cindy that if you already have an RCI Points account and wish to convert it into RCI Points, it doesn't make sense to deposit it into GoGlobal for exchanges to another RCI resort.  If you don't have an RCI account and you wish to exchange it, it may make sense to go through GoGlobal to RCI and make the exchange (there are other alternatives as well).  If you don't have a RCI Points account and want the unit converted into points, it may make sense (you cannot pdf [points-for-deposit] a unit into a RCI Weeks account as you can only pdf into a Points account).  I don't think that you can pdf a resort into the GA RCI account.

OLCC copied so much of RCI Points for its program that sometimes it is difficult to tell whether there is a difference in the two systems other than exchange fees.  This is another example.  

Boca has several units that have RCI corporate accounts (Worldmark, I believe is one and maybe Bluegreen) where he can exchange his unit with RCI for another resort without his needing a separate individual RCI account, so maybe he can shed some light on these RCI accounts.  I think, in general, there is an implication that you can do more through these accounts than you really can because people think of them as personal accounts rather than through corporate accounts (I use that term because of the way II exchanges through DVC are sometimes referred with the ability to exchange my DVC points into II resorts through DVC's II corporate account).  It would be interesting to see what Boca has to say because I think this is a gray area.  I could be wrong, but I think these corporate-type accounts are more limiting than are individual RCI accounts.


----------



## rickandcindy23 (Jan 4, 2007)

The funny thing about this Orange Lake Global Points system is it is the same name as RCI points.  RCI actually bills our points as "GPN fees" on our credit card, which stands for Global Points Network, I believe.  It seems to be the same system with the same name because when I did a search on that phrase on Google, the RCI website was right there.  That was a few months ago, when Orange Lake announced this new system.  I only searched because the name was so familiar.  

I guess I don't get the name being the same as RCI but the system being Orange Lake's own system.  If you buy Bluegreen and the resort is not involved in RCI points, you can use that week that you reserve in the RCI points system as PFD for $26.  I believe that is how it works, though I am not certain because I don't own in that system, though it looks more appealing all the time.  That is different from the Orange Lake system that is closely related to RCI points enough that owners cannot use PFD anymore.  So they have their own points system but cannot use RCI PFD?  So it is confusing.  

I understand that your exchange fees are lower, which is great, but when you use RCI, your exchange fees are the same?   Or are they $99 like RCI points for a week?  

You are right, Gary, Boca might know the answers to my questions.  Perhaps Boca will weigh in here.


----------



## gjw007 (Jan 4, 2007)

rickandcindy23 said:


> I understand that your exchange fees are lower, which is great, but when you use RCI, your exchange fees are the same?   Or are they $99 like RCI points for a week?
> 
> You are right, Gary, Boca might know the answers to my questions.  Perhaps Boca will weigh in here.


Cindy

The lower fees are only good for the internal exchanges (OLCC) and not RCI exchanges.  When GoGlobal transfers you to RCI, you have to pay the RCI rate ($99 for a points resort and $164 for a weeks resort) but you don't pay any additional GA fees.  RCI does work closely with GA so they are able to see if you have enough points to make the reservation (I had asked a question one day during a call to GA reservations and I got transferred to a RCI representative.  Both he (RCI representative) and I didn't understand why I was transferred to RCI for an internal GA question.  I was told by the RCI representative that OLCC let RCI look into their system and verify the points.  RCI did answer my question but the GA representative should have been able to).

There are a few subtle differences between RCI Points and OLCC's GA. As an example, first, RCI will allow a reservation for one night at a RCI Points resort.  GA requires a reservation for a minimum of two nights.  Second, RCI Points requirement for each night Sunday through Thursday is 12% of the week's total points requirement whereas GA points requirement for each night Sunday through Thursday is 10 percent of the week's total points requirement.  For Friday and Saturday nights, RCI's percentage is 20% for each night but GA is 30% for each night.  RCI's will total 100% (12% + 12% + 12% + 12% + 12% + 20% + 20%) but GA will total 110% (10% + 10% + 10% + 10% + 10% + 30% + 30%) of the total points required for the week.  Both have a higher points total for Friday and Saturday night but GA points requirement as a percentage of the total for the week is higher.  Third, RCI Points has different rates depending on how long you stay with the rate maxed out at $99 whereas GA has only one rate whether it is for one day or for a week (I've never been told of a lower rate for shorter stays and all the documentation shows 7-day exchanges).

I have done 3 GA reservations now with none being speedy.  The computer system has crashed on 2 of the transactions.  During a third call, I was asked what type of room I had reserved as it wasn't showing the type of room but confirmed I had a reservation.  In addition, I was told that there was a computer crash for 2 hours one morning where the GA representatives had to call people back who were making reservations.  It is clearly a work in progress at the moment.


----------



## rickandcindy23 (Jan 5, 2007)

It sounds like a good start of a possibly wonderful system, Gary.  I hope it turns out to be as good as Bluegreen and the others that so many TUGgers enjoy.  

I think it is very forward-thinking of OLCC to adopt a points program and hope other resorts follow their lead in providing other options besides that normal week-for-week exchange that is becoming archaic in the timeshare world.  

RCI points have been okay so far, but I am waiting for the $149 exchange fees with points, which is very likely going to happen in the near future. RCI tends to get us hooked on a great system and then raise the price on us because we are addicts and need our vacations!


----------



## riverdees05 (Jan 5, 2007)

Has anyone purchased into the Orange Lake's Global Access yet?


----------



## gjw007 (Jan 5, 2007)

riverdees05 said:


> Has anyone purchased into the Orange Lake's Global Access yet?



There are a few.  Tony and myself have.


----------



## nanook (Jan 5, 2007)

I also bought into Global Access...but am still waiting on the paperwork to finalize with RCI.


----------



## gjw007 (Jan 5, 2007)

nanook said:


> I also bought into Global Access...but am still waiting on the paperwork to finalize with RCI.


I'm not sure what paperwork there is to finalize with RCI as GoGlobal is an internal exchange program although there may be some paperwork between OLCC and RCI. Who knows what the back office work that is being done in this process 

Currrently GA does not have a website where an owner can check their account.  At the very least there should be a website that lets the owner know the number of points available and the vacation plans that are already taken.  Currently, the computer system has no ongoing search capability so in my opinion, there is much work that needs to be done to upgrade the computer system.  I'm sure it will happen in time but given the maturity of the industry and given that it is not an entirely new process, it is amazing that the software is not more complete.


----------



## JoanE (Jan 5, 2007)

*global access*

I agree with Gary.  While I converted my OL week to GA points the beginning of November, I have not received any actual confirmation on paper although I have called and do in fact have a GA number.  And yes, I do feel that they have many kinks to sort out - however, I still feel that $1295.00 was worth the gamble.  Also in response to those who wonder what the benefits of converting are.  I was told that for owners of less desirable weeks, it may not be advantageous to convert to points, but that it does make more sense for high season weeks.
Joan


----------



## rkd (Jan 8, 2007)

*Global access*

I have bought Global Access, spent 2 nights at Orange Lake (2b/2b in the East Village) this past week and have 2 nights planned for next month.  All has gone well so far.

As far as any "paperwork" after joining, I received none.  The info they sent you in the yellow DHL envelope with your contract gives you the info you need. My GA number was my OL number.  

I think the issue will be the housekeeping fees.  You have to figure that into vacation cost..........sigh.... But th HK fees are still less $$$ than the rental of a 2b/2b condo at rack rates.

BTW, The resort looked beautiful with all the grounds meticulously maintained.  We were not bothered by Sales people.  Our friends, who own MANY points at DVC, spent the 2 nights with us and were impressed by the resort and especially the size of the unit compared to Disney units.  

Hopefully next month will be as favorable.  We have a 1 bdrm in the West Village then.


----------



## nanook (Jan 8, 2007)

nanook said:


> I also bought into Global Access...but am still waiting on the paperwork to finalize with RCI.




To clarify:  My GA account is set up (can do OL exchanges) but I called RCI and the RCI points part was not setup.  RCI said I needed a points membership number before I could do an exchange.  RCI quoted me 4-8 weeks before I could do a RCI points exchange.  

Has anyone else had this type of delay?

thanks


----------



## brianw203 (Feb 2, 2008)

i had trouble with globalaccess making my resale grandfather can anyone tell me the rules making my resale costeeffective work


----------



## brianw203 (Feb 2, 2008)

nanook said:


> I have another question for the board.  The Global Access folks told me I can bring into Global Access another week with a different resort for $75 and I get the RCI book value on points.  Has anyone else heard of this?
> 
> thanks


 they told me the same thing but when you try to do this or other things they say who said that,they never come good for it


----------

