# Contractor Wants to Foreclose on Planet Hollywood Westgate



## ricoba

Claim is failure to pay $19.3 Million on construction costs.


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## timeos2

*No surprise - this is the Tower of Terror after all*

This project was a dog from day one &, hopefully, will bring down The King and his corrupt empire.  Sounds like it may have done so, what with his incomplete house on the market and now this along with other well reported cash issues they are apparently suffering. Only the few poor souls who were foolish enough to buy into this nightmare stand to lose. Thankfully there haven't been many as the timeshare collapse basically struck at about the same time as sales started. The cash flow on this beast must be horrendous.  Remember, this is less than 1/2 of what was promised to be built. The curse of Planet Hollywood lives on. 

My only surprise is that they opened the doors at all - even on less than 1/2 of what it was supposed to be. But they may not stay open long. If this ultimately brings Wastegate to it's knees it couldn't happen to a nicer group.   Maybe it can be converted to the World's Biggest Outhouse - right next to the Strip! What a tourist draw - what is that horrendous flushing sound? It's the King going down the crapper. Now that you look closely the building it really looks more like a toilet tank than a car fin. Add a giant neon lever & it's ready to go. Perhaps it was the plan all along. Always thinking, those Vegas designers.


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## JeffW

Maybe they'll give them some unsold units!  At $40k/unit, full time occupancy (x 50) works out to about $2M.   And of course, that's including the free show tickets and buffets for taking ownership of 50 unit/weeks !

Jeff


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## pianodinosaur

timeos:

I think the Westgate Towers are ugly. The sound of a giant toilet bowel flushing would be an improvement and a major tourist attraction.


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## NWL

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe one of our more outspoken TUG members owns a unit or 2 at this place.   

Cheers!


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## jmzf1958

I'm one of the "few poor souls who were foolish enough to buy into this nightmare."  (Thanks - I never really thought I was foolish, but apparently according to some on this board, I am.  But, the poster was also foolish enough to buy a Westgate property, so I guess we're both foolish.)  I'm very tired of coming onto this board and reading these negative comments.  Okay.  Westgate has got their problems.  In hindsight, I probably shouldn't have bought there, but who knew?  The Planet Hollywood property is one of the best I've ever seen.  Instead of being negative, how about some insight as to what this will mean for the owners?  What can happen to us?  I'd really just like some real honest answers, no sarcasm or putdowns, thanks.


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## timeos2

*Loser from day one. Anything Planet Hollywood always seems to fail*



jmzf1958 said:


> I'm one of the "few poor souls who were foolish enough to buy into this nightmare."  (Thanks - I never really thought I was foolish, but apparently according to some on this board, I am.  But, the poster was also foolish enough to buy a Westgate property, so I guess we're both foolish.)  I'm very tired of coming onto this board and reading these negative comments.  Okay.  Westgate has got their problems.  In hindsight, I probably shouldn't have bought there, but who knew?  The Planet Hollywood property is one of the best I've ever seen.  Instead of being negative, how about some insight as to what this will mean for the owners?  What can happen to us?  I'd really just like some real honest answers, no sarcasm or putdowns, thanks.



Those of us foolish enough to have been suckered in, at some point, to the nightmare that IS Wastegate have a long history of owner protection on our side. Even if the whole empire crumbles, and keep your fingers crossed it does, the owners usually make out OK if still having your week(s) to use & trade is "OK" to you.  Almost always a bigger, richer buyer comes along for the corpse which, when purchased for pennies on the dollar, can actually be a money maker. The existing owners just see bad news about the old developer/management for awhile, see the value drop to near zero (THAT has already occurred at virtually every WG timeshare) and then find themselves with a different Developer/Management.  Hopefully a much better one than Wastegate has been.  

Unless they've paid no one (not beyond a possibility but unlikely) then the core of the development will survive but hopefully with a new, less corrupt developer / management.  And maybe even get turnover to the owners as it should be at some future date.  

As an owner that realizes buying any WG was a big mistake the tough part is already over. Now take the use value and get what you can from it. There is no resale value and fees will only go up so hope that you can use/trade to get something out until you can say it's been a nice ride but please, someone take it off my hands. Once it's paid off you can dump it and have a very tough lesson learned. If you owe much on it I'd try to find virtually anyway I could to get out - any money paid going forward for purchase cost is another dollar lost. 

Wastegate can dazzle with BS, used to make money (but maybe not so much anymore) but cannot deliver a decent resort. Too bad.


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## AwayWeGo

*A Phoenix That Can Rise From The Ashes ?*




timeos2 said:


> Almost always a bigger, richer buyer comes along for the corpse which, when purchased for pennies on the dollar, can actually be a money maker.


_Planet DRI_ ? 

_Planet BlueGreen_ ? 

_Planet Daily Management_ ? 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


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## ricoba

jmzf1958 said:


> I'm one of the "few poor souls who were foolish enough to buy into this nightmare."  (Thanks - I never really thought I was foolish, but apparently according to some on this board, I am.  But, the poster was also foolish enough to buy a Westgate property, so I guess we're both foolish.)  I'm very tired of coming onto this board and reading these negative comments.  Okay.  Westgate has got their problems.  In hindsight, I probably shouldn't have bought there, but who knew?  The Planet Hollywood property is one of the best I've ever seen.  Instead of being negative, how about some insight as to what this will mean for the owners?  What can happen to us?  I'd really just like some real honest answers, no sarcasm or putdowns, thanks.



I am the original poster and I don't own Westgate, I own HGVC at the Las Vegas Hilton.  

I don't have a "dog" in this fight.  I just thought that some folks here would be interested in reading the article.  I am aware there are some real anti-Westgate folks here, but I am not one.  From reading their grievances over the years, I think they do have some real reasons to strongly dislike their treatment by Westgate. 

Don't feel bad about having bought a timeshare, "full freight" meaning right from the developer, we did the same thing with our Hilton ownership.  Many, many TUGGERS are in the same shoes.  Many if most of us didn't find TUG till after it was too late to rescind.

The normal advice on TUG is learn to enjoy your timeshare as much as possible.  Listen and learn here on TUG, you can usually find some excellent advice.  I am sorry that some folks do go into a rant sometime,  but I don't think you should take it personally, their frustration is more geared toward the developers and sales folks and bad customer service.

At this point I wouldn't let the article from today's LV Sun discourage you.  Just learn how to enjoy your Westgate ownership to the max and have fun.  I have seen some pictures inside the PH WG Tower and the rooms do seem to be very nice.


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## NWL

jmzf1958 said:


> I'm one of the "few poor souls who were foolish enough to buy into this nightmare."  (Thanks - I never really thought I was foolish, but apparently according to some on this board, I am.  But, the poster was also foolish enough to buy a Westgate property, so I guess we're both foolish.)  I'm very tired of coming onto this board and reading these negative comments.  Okay.  Westgate has got their problems.  In hindsight, I probably shouldn't have bought there, but who knew?  The Planet Hollywood property is one of the best I've ever seen.  Instead of being negative, how about some insight as to what this will mean for the owners?  What can happen to us?  I'd really just like some real honest answers, no sarcasm or putdowns, thanks.



I was not referring to you, but another member in my previous post.  I'm sorry for the confusion. 

Please know that I wish you well.   

Cheers!


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## Kauai Kid

There are timeshares on Hawaii where people purchased their weeks for tens of thousands of dollars.

Check out ebay:  There are Hawaii condos on the market for less than $1

With this economy I can't imagine anyone buying a timeshare anymore.

My Vanguard Prime Money Market emergency funds have recently tripled their returns.  Use to be 0.01 %/yr and now it is 0.03 %/yr (those are not typos).

I do hope you recover all or even some of your funds.


Sterling


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## jmzf1958

Ricoba, I wasn't referring to you as an owner of westgate.   I do hope someone else takes this over.   I paid cash for this timeshare preconstruction with a big discount as my nephew worked there.  I'm sure I still paid too much, but I have made the best of it and gotten good trades.  Live and learn.


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## dougp26364

AwayWeGo said:


> _Planet DRI_ ?
> 
> _Planet BlueGreen_ ?
> 
> _Planet Daily Management_ ?
> 
> -- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​



I was thinking the same thing. If the financing or money is there, someone with a system could make a serious run at what's left of Westgate. I could see DRI taking an interest except for the fact that it's be a pretty big duplication of resort area's where DRI already has large resorts. But then again, DRI, Bluegreen and others sell points rather than units. All it would mean would be additional inventory purchased for pennies on the dollar without having to develope new resorts. 

Who knows how it will eventually work out. Westgate has weathered storms before. It might just be big enough that it can weather this one as well. The one thing I feel certain of is that there won't be a tower two at Planet Hollywood anytime soon. But then again, Hilton and Marriott have both their projects on hold as well.


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## cotraveller

AwayWeGo said:


> _Planet DRI_ ?
> 
> _Planet BlueGreen_ ?
> 
> _Planet Daily Management_ ?
> 
> -- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​



Or Planet Wyndham and/or WorldMark?  Even in this economy Wyndham is making money, with first quarter income and timeshare sales up from last year.  See Financial report.  If I recall correctly, they have already become involved with one cash strapped development this year. On the other hand thay have Wyndham Desert Blue sitting partially developed in Las Vegas, I don't know that they would be interested in adding another large resort there.


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## ricoba

I have one....

How about.....

*Planet Hilton!!!*    

It's right up Hilton's alley to keep building timeshares in the same place over and over again...so instead of building why not just buy one!!!


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## dougp26364

ricoba said:


> I have one....
> 
> How about.....
> 
> *Planet Hilton!!!*
> 
> It's right up Hilton's alley to keep building timeshares in the same place over and over again...so instead of building why not just buy one!!!



The only problem with that would be Hilton assuming all of Westgate rather than just the TOT. That would give Hilton an instant nationwide presence and that seems to be something they're avoiding. Hitlon's philosophy appears to be to keep their sales staff in as few locations as possible. Thus cutting down on the expense of additional mangers, secretarial personel and other related expenses that would go along with having multiple sales offices. 

Of course it could be that there is no one developer that could swallow this fish whole. Westgate, should if fall, could be broken apart with several companies partaking in a feeding frenzy to aquire individual properties that fit their expansion models.

Someone had posted that Westgate was selling off it's Branson timeshares. Has anyone heard any more about that? It could be, in order to survive, Westgate begins selling itself off to the highest bidders for cash infusions to keep the company alive.


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## ricoba

dougp26364 said:


> The only problem with that would be Hilton assuming all of Westgate rather than just the TOT. That would give Hilton an instant nationwide presence and that seems to be something they're avoiding. Hitlon's philosophy appears to be to keep their sales staff in as few locations as possible. Thus cutting down on the expense of additional mangers, secretarial personel and other related expenses that would go along with having multiple sales offices.
> 
> Of course it could be that there is no one developer that could swallow this fish whole. Westgate, should if fall, could be broken apart with several companies partaking in a feeding frenzy to aquire individual properties that fit their expansion models.
> 
> Someone had posted that Westgate was selling off it's Branson timeshares. Has anyone heard any more about that? It could be, in order to survive, Westgate begins selling itself off to the highest bidders for cash infusions to keep the company alive.



Well as you know, I was just kidding... 

But your views on Hilton wanting to keep their sales force in 3 locations makes sense.

I did go over to the Westgate site and looked at their locations.  Hilton doesn't need any more Florida in my view, but maybe Branson, Utah, South Carolina, Tennessee and Virgina would be interesting???? 

What's the quality of Westgate resorts?


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## dougp26364

ricoba said:


> Well as you know, I was just kidding...
> 
> But your views on Hilton wanting to keep their sales force in 3 locations makes sense.
> 
> I did go over to the Westgate site and looked at their locations.  Hilton doesn't need any more Florida in my view, but maybe Branson, Utah, South Carolina, Tennessee and Virgina would be interesting????
> 
> What's the quality of Westgate resorts?



I know you were kidding but, it's still fun to speculate.  

I've been to two Westgate resorts. One that was built by Westgate, Towncenter in Orlando, and one that was a GrandVista resort in Branson before Westgate bought them out. Overall the quality is very good but maybe not up to Hilton standards. IMHO, on the Towncenter development, then cut some corners. For instance, the bed we had didn't have box springs. It was a mattress set upon a wooden frame. The tub/shower we had was of questionable quality as well. Those are the two things I remember most that stuck out concerning quality.

As for the Branson timeshare, it wasn't built by Westgate so it's hard to hold them accountable for the construction. The building we were in was wood frame and insulated VERY poorly. Anyone walking above us sounded like an elephant and those in the unit next door couldn't hold a converstation where I didn't hear every word they were saying.


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## AwayWeGo

*What?  All Of WestGate Is Headed Down The Tubes?  Isn't It Just Planet Hollywood ?*




dougp26364 said:


> If the financing or money is there, someone with a system could make a serious run at what's left of Westgate.


Times are tough for sure, but is the whole WestGate empire tottering now ? 

I interpreted the foreclosure news as applying to Planet Hollywood Towers only. 

Who knew ? 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


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## timeos2

*The chickens may have roosted*



AwayWeGo said:


> Times are tough for sure, but is the whole WestGate empire tottering now ?
> 
> I interpreted the foreclosure news as applying to Planet Hollywood Towers only.
> 
> Who knew ?
> 
> -- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​



The King has been reportedly searching for cash - including asking the State of Florida for money - and has multiple properties up for sale.  They have shuttered sales centers, laid off many employees and overall appear from the outside in to be under serous financial stress.  

This latest lawsuit just adds to the picture of an "empire" in serious difficulty.  Gee, don't you feel bad for them? Maybe you'd like to bid on a few greasy shots of the King with grimacing, has been, B list or lower celebrities?  Good for a laugh.  Meanwhile we can only hope they are getting a taste of the type of hardships they have caused thousands of owners. What is that Karma thing?


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## AwayWeGo

*No Taxpayer Money For Timeshare Companies.*




timeos2 said:


> The King has been reportedly searching for cash - including asking the State of Florida for money - and has multiple properties up for sale.


If I lived in Florida, I would feel seriously steamed if the state gave taxpayer money to WestGate or any timeshare company. 

Shux upon'm. 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


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## kbinpvb

*Double-whammied!*

I hope I don't get stuck twice, as I live in FL and DON'T want my tax $ going to Westgate (our schools need every penny!) AND we were foolish enough to buy a "test" week with Westgate, BEFORE I found TUG....:annoyed: 

We have rented Orange Lake weeks from friends and through the resort 4 times in the last 3 years and LOVE the place.  We have been researching ts since our 1st visit and with the encouragement of friends who have been ts'ers for some time.

Silly us, a little over 2 yrs ago we stayed at a nice hotel and ended up doing a tour over at WGVV.  They were just starting construction on a new wonderful looking waterpark and the toured towers were wonderful.  So, while we didn't buy a week, we got into their Vacation Traveler program for about $1,000.  It gave us one week at any of their properties plus membership into Leisure Time (basically a "discount" travel company) and last-minute get-aways.

So, we booked for this past spring break, stayed in the "main" resort.  I don't want to get into a full-blown review here, but let me state that we were not staying in the same level of quality that we had come to expect from Orange Lake (we have stayed in River Island, West Village and North Village).  And, we were Horrified to find that the waterpark was not only no further along in construction than it had been 2 yrs ago, but also, construction had stopped completely!  Our 7 yr old son really wanted a waterpark, and so did we!

To further prove our stupidity, we agreed to do the same $1k deal again with the idea that we would stay in one of their other resorts next spring break. 

Since this fateful week, my ts friend (whom I did not consult before the WG trip) introduced me to TUG!  Now, after much research here and even a conversation with one owner, I am bidding on a Pool A week at Resort on Cocoa Beach which we plan on using vs. exchanging!

But, I still have that Westgate week sitting out there for next year.  Any advice on which of the Florida WG's is the least offensive??  Where should I book this week?  I can't get out of it and I don't want to walk away from $, even a bad resort is better than a hotel.

Help!

Thanks for listening!
Karen


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## timeos2

*Try WG Lakes*



kbinpvb said:


> But, I still have that Westgate week sitting out there for next year.  Any advice on which of the Florida WG's is the least offensive??  Where should I book this week?  I can't get out of it and I don't want to walk away from $, even a bad resort is better than a hotel.
> 
> Help!
> 
> Thanks for listening!
> Karen



Since you've already done WGVV & TC, and the promised waterpark is among the growing causalities of the implosion of Wastegate, you may want to look at Wastegate Lakes. It too will fall FAR short of the quality you thought you'd see at WG (they know how to build an impressive looking model or two but delivering quality units for the masses is far beyond this sales only oriented group) but it is OK and I think I heard that the water park there DID get at least partially opened.  Overall I like WGVV/TC better than the Lakes but you should see the other one & maybe get that water park after all. 

AVOID SALES & DO NOT SIGN UP AGAIN!! 

Enjoy. You are far better off at Orange Lake or Vistana or our favorite Cypress Pointe than any Wastegate in the future.


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## pianodinosaur

jmzf1958 said:


> I'm one of the "few poor souls who were foolish enough to buy into this nightmare."  (Thanks - I never really thought I was foolish, but apparently according to some on this board, I am.  But, the poster was also foolish enough to buy a Westgate property, so I guess we're both foolish.)  I'm very tired of coming onto this board and reading these negative comments.  Okay.  Westgate has got their problems.  In hindsight, I probably shouldn't have bought there, but who knew?  The Planet Hollywood property is one of the best I've ever seen.  Instead of being negative, how about some insight as to what this will mean for the owners?  What can happen to us?  I'd really just like some real honest answers, no sarcasm or putdowns, thanks.



I purchased all my HGVC units directly from HGVC before learing about TUG and the resale market.  I enjoy timesharing and never would have taken the wonderful vacations we have enjoyed had I not purchased directly from HGVC.  Hilton has been totally honest with me in all our dealings.  Hilton does not build new resorts unless it intends to sell them directly for a profit.  A unit cannot be purchased resale unless it was first purchased directly by someone like you or me. 

There are relatively few complaints on the HGVC threads because Hilton is very concerned about customer satisfaction.  There are numerous complaints on the Starwood threads due to massive increases in the MFs and changes in the exchange program.  It seems to me that there are now far more complaints about Starwood than about Westgate.

However, if you learn to use your timeshare and exchange system, you may have many enjoyable vacations in your future.  Good luck and welcome to TUG.  Only time will tell how this litigation will affect the owners.  My impression of this litigation is that in a divorce, only the attorneys benefit.


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## tlwmkw

NWL,

Were you referring to the member who bought the New Years, penthouse week at Planet Hollywood and then talked it up as the greatest timeshare ever?  If so he has a website and is advertising it for rent if you are interested.  Currently he is selling Marriott short because of speculation based on a new points system.  Perhaps he will chime in here about this.

tlwmkw


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## NWL

tlwmkw said:


> NWL,
> 
> Were you referring to the member who bought the New Years, penthouse week at Planet Hollywood and then talked it up as the greatest timeshare ever?



Yep, he's the one.  He has such strong opinions on everyone else's circumstances.  I'm curious as to his take on the current situation.  

I do hope some good can come out of this for him, but I won't be able to help by renting that particular week.   

Cheers!


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## James1975NY

ricoba said:


> Claim is failure to pay $19.3 Million on construction costs.



There is a lot more to the story. Looks like the contractor is fishing for more cash. If Wastegate's rep Waltrip is speaking truths, the contractor has nothing to win here.

However, having only sold 20% of the project is pretty dismal.


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## dougp26364

tlwmkw said:


> NWL,
> 
> Were you referring to the member who bought the New Years, penthouse week at Planet Hollywood and then talked it up as the greatest timeshare ever?  If so he has a website and is advertising it for rent if you are interested.  Currently he is selling Marriott short because of speculation based on a new points system.  Perhaps he will chime in here about this.
> 
> tlwmkw



I think Perry is going to stay as far away from this thread as he can. He oversold the TOT as the best timeshare ever. At this point is appears he'd have to eat a lot of crow over his claims just a few years ago about what a great buy and what a great timeshare this would be.


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## dougp26364

James1975NY said:


> There is a lot more to the story. Looks like the contractor is fishing for more cash. *If* Wastegate's rep Waltrip is speaking truths, the contractor has nothing to win here.
> 
> However, having only sold 20% of the project is pretty dismal.



That one little word and the fact we're talking about Westgate should tell you something. *If* Westgate isn't lying, then the contractor might be wrong. If I have to choose between Westgate telling the truth and a contractor I know nothing about telling the truth, I think I'll go with the unknown contractor.


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## AwayWeGo

*Eating Crow?  Or Really Something To Crow About ?*




dougp26364 said:


> At this point is appears he'd have to eat a lot of crow over his claims just a few years ago about what a great buy and what a great timeshare this would be.


Or, with WestGate out of the picture & some _el primo_ timeshare company operating in its place, Planet Hollywood Towers could turn out to be even better than what Perry had started out expecting. 

Wouldn't that be something ? 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


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## timeos2

*It has lived down to low expectations so far*



AwayWeGo said:


> Or, with WestGate out of the picture & some _el primo_ timeshare company operating in its place, Planet Hollywood Towers could turn out to be even better than what Perry had started out expecting.
> 
> Wouldn't that be something ?
> 
> -- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​



If you recall all the claims of the time Wastegate wasn't GOING to be the operator/management of TOT - GUARANTEED!  Demand for top quality units was unquenchable. Oops!  Rentals getting higher all the time. Is it 3 strikes you're out? 

Hmm, well that didn't work out so well either. So if a decent operator took it over it would be what was originally expected not a bonus. 

This whole nightmare is shaking out like the old Debbie Reynolds off strip debacle. Only a small amount ever sold, years of dragged out litigation and in the end owners getting nothing.  The odor surrounding TOT is very familiar to that operation/collapse.  No one that came around here can say they weren't warned repeatedly to stay far away.


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## new2this

*Mee too, unfortunately...*

I am one of the first time timeshare suckers who bought from the developer at Planet Hollywood, Las Vegas last year.
One of those mid-mid-life crisis. Never had even heard of timeshare. Got dragged to the "free lunch" by someone else and the "sale" sounded sooo good, and I forgot the "to be true" part....
sigh...
It was my first time in Vegas.
I then proceded to list with "timesharesonly" before I found TUG.
I now realize that i will NEVER re-sell without a net loss of over $50,000, if not more. Silver lining is that I have been able to afford the monthly payments thus far...
Trying to decide if I should still try to sell and learn my (costly) lesson, or stick with it and try to learn about the "exchange" process.

I bought a 4BD lockout. Was told that it exchanges for double on II. That is one week in Vegas exchanges for two weeks elsewhere. Was that a lie as well?

I just woke up from my major denial today, I think....
Never thought about any of this too much before...but... the year is almost half over.
so..
should I just bank my weeks with II and try to figure out a vacation over the next year? Would it be better to rent it out? I've never even used one before, so I don't even know how it works to tell any potential renters...


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## DeniseM

I'm sorry to tell you this, but since you are making payments, it will be impossible to sell until it's paid off.

You can deposit it with II, and you may get an accommodations certificate which will get you two weeks, but not completely free, and not without limitations.  Also - those weeks cannot be rented.

Renting at your home resort is possible, but the rental market is depressed because of the economy.
*
Info. about renting.*


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## pianodinosaur

new2this said:


> I am one of the first time timeshare suckers who bought from the developer at Planet Hollywood, Las Vegas last year.
> One of those mid-mid-life crisis. Never had even heard of timeshare. Got dragged to the "free lunch" by someone else and the "sale" sounded sooo good, and I forgot the "to be true" part....
> sigh...
> It was my first time in Vegas.
> I then proceded to list with "timesharesonly" before I found TUG.
> I now realize that i will NEVER re-sell without a net loss of over $50,000, if not more. Silver lining is that I have been able to afford the monthly payments thus far...
> Trying to decide if I should still try to sell and learn my (costly) lesson, or stick with it and try to learn about the "exchange" process.
> 
> I bought a 4BD lockout. Was told that it exchanges for double on II. That is one week in Vegas exchanges for two weeks elsewhere. Was that a lie as well?
> 
> I just woke up from my major denial today, I think....
> Never thought about any of this too much before...but... the year is almost half over.
> so..
> should I just bank my weeks with II and try to figure out a vacation over the next year? Would it be better to rent it out? I've never even used one before, so I don't even know how it works to tell any potential renters...



Does TimeSharesOnly require an upfront deposit?  If so, you have just been robbed.  I strongly suggest you learn how to use your timeshare and enjoy some great vacations.


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## colamedia

new2this said:


> I bought a 4BD lockout. Was told that it exchanges for double on II. That is one week in Vegas exchanges for two weeks elsewhere. Was that a lie as well?


The lockout does mean you can deposit into II as 2 weeks, BUT they will be 2 weeks the size of the lockouts, eg does it split as a 1bedroom and a 3 bedroom, or a 2 bedroom and a 2bedroom? etc You won't get two weeks in a 4 bedroom.  Looking on the floorplan shown on here looks like it might split inot a studio, a 2 bedroom and a 1 bedroom, which would give you 3 weeks of II exchanges, the 2 bedroom and 1 bedroom would get you a 2 bedroom and 1 bedroom well in advance, the studio could get you a studio well in advance, OR within 60 days, it could get you anything available.....

Also, II _might_ give you an AC (accommodation certificate) for depositing with them. That would give you another week, though usually less desirable dates and locations.  AC can be handed out by II when you make a deposit with a high demand week.  PH might be considered such a week.

Depending on your needs,  time for advance planning, and time available to use it, you could exchange for even more than double. 
- are there school kids so you need to plan just in school holidays, or can you have holidays whenever? 
- what size units do you need?  Do you need 1 bedroom? 2 bedroom? 3 bedroom, 4 bedroom? all depends on how big a group you and family/friends you travel with will be.
- can you use more than 2 weeks holidays per year? either for yourself or be generous with family members? (or get them to rent?)


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## new2this

@Denise: Thank you, but if I could sell, I would just pay the rest off in one large sum. I'm only paying month by month now, because...why not? They don't charge me interest for 24 months... I made sure of that. Thank you!

@Piano: Yes. and yes, - now I know! Won't do it again!
almost got suckered into a second one "timesharebyowner"

@Colamedia: I specifically asked...and they recorded it (the whole sale was audio recorded) that each week trades for TWO weeks on II. So if I split my 4BD into the 1BD, 2BD, and studio components, i would get 6 weeks on II. I said that aloud before siging the contract, and Westgate said yes.

I just called II - they said no, not true. So that means Westgate lied to me (no surprise after reading many TUG posts).

Hmmm. Since they lied as part of the audio recorded sale...as in "this is what I understand I'm buying...for this value to be traded/exchanged on II" does that make the contract void? or give me cause to say "misrepresentation" during sale, now take it back?
That would be TOO easy, I guess - life's mistakes don't work that way.

I called II they said "no AC available" for my property.
Someone suggested using one of the "independent" companies...
Any suggestions? I am part of II for 3 years and ICE international for another year as part of the original timeshare contract.
I've also been told that a studio doesn't really exchange well... so I was thinking of banking the 1BD and 2BD aspects of the lockout and just using the studio part in Vegas...sound like an ok plan?
hmmm but if your experience says a studio might get me something... I don't know. 
I can use 1 week this year and two  weeks next year. I was under the impression that if I bank the weeks, I have two years to use them. I guess i have to do that, then because i can't use all three weeks before december this year....

BTW - thank you guys VERY much for all your help. No one I know has any timeshares, and have no idea about this stuff either...I don't even know what came over me to buy this one, but I'm glad there are people who are just nice and help w advice from experience...


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## dukebigtom

Your verbal recorded conversation might hold up, but in real estate by law, unless it is written, it is not considered a binding agreement.  I can't say it is not worth trying, but I think you are in a real jam.

BigTom


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## colamedia

new2this said:


> I specifically asked...and they recorded it (the whole sale was audio recorded) that each week trades for TWO weeks on II. So if I split my 4BD into the 1BD, 2BD, and studio components, i would get 6 weeks on II. I said that aloud before siging the contract, and Westgate said yes.
> 
> I just called II - they said no, not true. So that means Westgate lied to me (no surprise after reading many TUG posts).
> ......
> I called II they said "no AC available" for my property.


Yeah, looks like Westgate did stretch the truth, there is always the possibility that they did mean ACs and they thought the property WOULD get ACs, but it was all a bit theoretical because they hadn't started exchanging with II, it was just assumed it was such a spectacular property that it would get the ACs.
Since then, the property might still be spectacular (it is!), but the management is so far from spectacular it negates the property, so no ACs. 

It does seem extremely likely there will be new owners for PHTowers.  Any agreements with II could change then, it might even become an agreement with RCI. In the meantime, you can get 3 weeks, plus you can do last minute Getaways with II very cheaply often for not that much more than the exchange fee (Getaways are discounted rentals), particularly if a studio is big enough for you for some trips, so you could have access to 6 or even more weeks all up.  Getaways further in advance are more expensive.


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## dougp26364

colamedia said:


> Yeah, looks like Westgate did stretch the truth, there is always the possibility that they did mean ACs and they thought the property WOULD get ACs, but it was all a bit theoretical because they hadn't started exchanging with II, it was just assumed it was such a spectacular property that it would get the ACs.
> Since then, the property might still be spectacular (it is!), but the management is so far from spectacular it negates the property, so no ACs.
> 
> It does seem extremely likely there will be new owners for PHTowers.  Any agreements with II could change then, it might even become an agreement with RCI. In the meantime, you can get 3 weeks, plus you can do last minute Getaways with II very cheaply often for not that much more than the exchange fee (Getaways are discounted rentals), particularly if a studio is big enough for you for some trips, so you could have access to 6 or even more weeks all up.  Getaways further in advance are more expensive.



I think there are two issues with AC's. 1. Interval doesn't really need the units at that location. Within walking distance you have Marriott's Grand Chateau, Carriage House, Jockey Club and Polo Towers. Interval has plenty of inventory. 2. AC's appear to be more of a developer paid promotion than anything else. Up until this year, Polo Towers was still getting AC's for deposits. If you look at how DRI does business, it appears that they work with Interval to offer AC's at some of their resorts. During low season as some DRI resorts you'll get an AC if you trade INTO the resort. Westgate may have had a deal with Interval to offer AC's for their deposits but, with the current financial situation might not have been able to afford the fee's to provide them. Thus, the salesmen were told to sell that aspect and then Westgate failed to hold up their end of the bargain.

We own two Marriott resorts. We have never been offered an AC for either of them. One is Grand Chateau, which a couple hundred yards away from Polo Towers, is newer, has more amenities and a better recognized name. Polo Towers was still getting AC's but the Marriott wasn't. You'd be hard pressed to get me to believe that some developers don't pay Interval to offer AC's so they can push it as an incentive to buy.

I'm not convinced there will be new owners for PHT anytime soon. King David isn't going to turn loose of this resort easily. Westgate will have to go belly up for that to happen IMHO. While they are having trouble, I don't think it's come to that point. As has been pointed out the contractor in question with the suit appears to have a record of frivilous law suits looking for extra money. It would be just like Westgate to cheap out and use a contractor of questionable reputation.


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## wcfr1

It's also possible that the 2 for 1 exchange thing was an internal Westgate exchange.

I know in Park City if you deposit your ski week with Westgate and you want to go to any other Westgate property they give you 2 for 1.  If you want to go back to PC it's straight up 1 for 1.


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## billinlv

We bought a 2br PH Towers resale unit (1br Grand & Studio King) using timesharesonly at the beginning of the year.  We have two weeks scheduled in October.

Last October when we viewed the model and didn't buy they offered a one week stay for $995 in a 1 br Grand unit.  We bought that from them and visited there last week.  During the visit they tried to upgrade our 2br unit to a 4br one.  They were going to give us like $105k credit on what we own now but it would still cost us like $65k for a 4br use every other year.  Supposedly they are selling now fractional ownership.  They said we own a deeded timeshare for use and what they are selling now you would actually be deeded part of the building and land.

Since we bought a resale they said we wouldn't be able to do the 2 for 1 exchanges.  The 2 for 1 supposedly is written in the contract and only applies to Westgate exchanges.  It costs $140 to exchange with Westgate, we had to pay $140 to split our lockout in October.

The sales people did say that II would offer something similar to the 2 for 1 but their weeks would be for 7 days 6 nights.  So our 2 br unit should exchange for 12 nights in an II unit.

We didn't join II and plan to use the PH Towers unit for two weeks each year.

Probably not true but the salesman said they will start on the second tower by December 2011.  Also there is a cleared lot on the corner of Harmon and LVB and they said that was for Westgate development too.

One other thing, while touring the Wyndham Grand Desert in Vegas during our stay the salesman said he heard internally a rumor that Wyndham will be taking over the PH Towers by Westgate.

Bill in Jacksonville Beach, FL


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## new2this

*Trying to adjust...*

So maybe it was internally within westgate for the 2 for 1 exchanges? I was also told that if I traded in a partial week (3 or 4 days) I would get a full week....Moot point by now, I guess...

I feel that If I try to argue on the verbal misrepresenattion/fraud, it would just cost lawyers fees and I would still lose.
Thanks for everyones' help!

The lockout fee is 140. So if I pay $280 more dollars. I can deposit a studio, a one bedroom and a two bedroom with different companies. I was thinking the 2BD with II, and the others with ICE, SFX, or DAE.... Then i'll have a couple years to use them......

I actually need to go to Udaipur, India for a week for a wedding July 2010. Looked at EVERY site... no exchanges to that area...so this exchange thing is already not helpful. 
I have to decide where I want to go based on where i can exchange... most places seem to be mundane places, though.....


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## new2this

*question*

oooooh!
Just thought of a place i WOULD like to go : Rome.

Does anyone know who I should deposit my week with to get it?


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## a-vegas-opc

Actually, 

Rumor has it that wg I'd having huge problems with their finders now. They are not happy with the ammount if cancelations on new deals. 

One of the things Westgate has done is use trooval for grading tours (A,B,C,d or E) abd not taking d or e tours. 

Still with harrahs lawyers trying to lock down where their sales can walk in a casino and which booths are open at ph the backers are close to backing out.
Wg lost a prime spot worth 200 tours a month and about $150k in sales a month.

So they are sending most tours to amingo bay where they pay nothing to harrahs on a sale whereas any ph tower sale harrahs gets a cut as part of subsidized rent at the ph casino.

So I suspect that wg will continue to sell off resorts outside of Vegas to fund the towers and keep it afloat, but this news means there just may be a niche market for people who want the towers cheap.


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## mzd6socal

billinjax said:


> Also there is a cleared lot on the corner of Harmon and LVB and they said that was for Westgate development too.
> 
> Bill in Jacksonville Beach, FL



Actually it will be a Walgreens among other stores.

http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/2010/jun/03/walgreens-will-anchor-25-million-parcel-across-cit/


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## billinlv

mzd6socal said:


> Actually it will be a Walgreens among other stores.
> 
> http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/2010/jun/03/walgreens-will-anchor-25-million-parcel-across-cit/



Thanks for that info.  When we stayed at the PH Towers they didn't offer a grocery store run.  Hopefully Walgreens will carry some basic items.


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## rghurtle

I own at the westgate PH and due to an income loss I stopped paying.  Over the past year they have went from demanding all of the money to now wanting $1000.00 and putting the back balance on the end of the loan.  No modification of any kind.  At this point of wondering whether to do that or let it ride for a while longer given Westgates troubles.  Any ideas?   Thanks


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## MalibuMike

*Westgate & Lying*

I would like to say thank you for all the honest posters on this site. I am an owner of a 4 bedroom Planet Hollywood Timeshare. I am currently suing Westgate, yes even though it no longer owns the property at Planet Hollywood in Las Vegas, Westgate still does exist, for breach of contract. 

As many other posters have already stated, there is a big difference between what you bargain for with the sales staff at a timeshare and what the notary or contract staff writes up. 

It was a bad idea to ever consider buying a timeshare, but it was a good idea to make sure that what I contracted for with the sales staff was written into the contract. Even though this was done, I am having to sue them to get what I bargained for. 

The fact of the matter is that all time share sellers prey on the inexperienced, unknowledgeable, and "under-educated," to make an on the spot snap decision that will largely only lead to their ruin. At this, they are most successful.




new2this said:


> @Denise: Thank you, but if I could sell, I would just pay the rest off in one large sum. I'm only paying month by month now, because...why not? They don't charge me interest for 24 months... I made sure of that. Thank you!
> 
> @Piano: Yes. and yes, - now I know! Won't do it again!
> almost got suckered into a second one "timesharebyowner"
> 
> @Colamedia: I specifically asked...and they recorded it (the whole sale was audio recorded) that each week trades for TWO weeks on II. So if I split my 4BD into the 1BD, 2BD, and studio components, i would get 6 weeks on II. I said that aloud before siging the contract, and Westgate said yes.
> 
> I just called II - they said no, not true. So that means Westgate lied to me (no surprise after reading many TUG posts).
> 
> Hmmm. Since they lied as part of the audio recorded sale...as in "this is what I understand I'm buying...for this value to be traded/exchanged on II" does that make the contract void? or give me cause to say "misrepresentation" during sale, now take it back?
> That would be TOO easy, I guess - life's mistakes don't work that way.
> 
> I called II they said "no AC available" for my property.
> Someone suggested using one of the "independent" companies...
> Any suggestions? I am part of II for 3 years and ICE international for another year as part of the original timeshare contract.
> I've also been told that a studio doesn't really exchange well... so I was thinking of banking the 1BD and 2BD aspects of the lockout and just using the studio part in Vegas...sound like an ok plan?
> hmmm but if your experience says a studio might get me something... I don't know.
> I can use 1 week this year and two  weeks next year. I was under the impression that if I bank the weeks, I have two years to use them. I guess i have to do that, then because i can't use all three weeks before december this year....
> 
> BTW - thank you guys VERY much for all your help. No one I know has any timeshares, and have no idea about this stuff either...I don't even know what came over me to buy this one, but I'm glad there are people who are just nice and help w advice from experience...


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## siesta

MalibuMike said:


> As many other posters have already stated, there is a big difference between what you bargain for with the sales staff at a timeshare and what the notary or contract staff writes up


 yes, what is promised verbally does not matter ... Only what is explicitly written in the contract. 

Curious, What was promised to you *and* written in the contract that you are not receiving and suing for?


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