# Points vs Weeks



## porto1288 (Apr 16, 2016)

1) Where do you want your home resort to be?
*West coast*
2) Do you want to visit your home resort at least half the time, or do you want to trade more than half the time?
*trade > half*
3) What are your 5 top trade destinations?
*Hawaii, Europe, Oregon or someplace we've never been to.*
4) How many people do you usually travel with?
*2*
5) Can you travel any time, or are you locked into the school schedule?
*anytime*
6) Can you make firm plans 12 or more mos. in advance?
*yes*
7) Can you vacation for a full week at a time?
*yes*
8) What level of accommodations do you prefer on a scale of 1 to 5 stars?
*4-5*
9) How much can you afford to spend upfront, without financing?
*not an issue, depends what we're getting in return*
10) How much can you afford to spend every year for a maintenance fee that will come due right after Christmas, and increase each year?
*not an issue, depends what we're getting in return*
11) Are you a detail oriented planner?
*yes*
12) Do you understand that once you buy a timeshare, it may be very difficult to sell or give away, and you are responsible for all fees, until you do?
*yes*

We've been to 3 presentations (2 Marriott, 1 Shell) actually bought a Shell but rescinded in time.

Since we would like to vary where we stay I think points would be the way to go but. . .
What are the downsides?

What are the best programs?

Which ones have the most variety / locations?

Can a set week have as much trading power as points?

What secret fees for each program?

Anything else I need to know?
Thanks
TK


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## DeniseM (Apr 16, 2016)

These are the resort systems that are consistently 4-5 Star:

Starwood
Hilton
Hyatt
Marriott

When you exchange through Interval or RCI, the quality will be all over the place.  So if 4-5 Star Quality is important to you, I'd start by investigating the 4 resorts systems above.  

Providing a comprehensive comparison of these systems is outside the scope of this thread, but you can find that info. on TUG, at the top of each of the forums related to these systems.

*Hawaii *has a lot of timeshares.
*Oregon* has a few timeshares.
*Europe* is more difficult because the competition for exchanges in Europe is fierce during the time that tourists want to visit (warm weather) and the majority of the timeshare are in ski area or countryside destinations, not in major cities that tourists want to visit.

I'd start by visiting the TUG *Resorts and Reviews*, and browsing through the top rated resorts on the West Coast.  Then, I would investigate the resort systems affiliated with those resorts.  That will help you narrow down your interest more.


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## vacationhopeful (Apr 16, 2016)

If Shell Vacation Resorts appealed to YOU ... you can get those points for almost FREE. 

Posts about Shell Vacation Resorts are located under the Wyndham thread...

Shell has 4 clubs where the points have some earlier booking windows ... the points at 10 months out can be used at ANY of the clubs. Clubs determine what the MFs cost, also.


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## DeniseM (Apr 16, 2016)

vacationhopeful said:


> If Shell Vacation Resorts appealed to YOU ... you can get those points for almost FREE.
> 
> Posts about Shell Vacation Resorts are located under the Wyndham thread...
> 
> Shell has 4 clubs where the points have some earlier booking windows ... the points at 10 months out can be used at ANY of the clubs. Clubs determine what the MFs cost, also.



Yes, but Shell is not 4-5 Star, IMNSHO.


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## vacationhopeful (Apr 16, 2016)

DeniseM said:


> Yes, but Shell is not 4-5 Star, IMNSHO.



True, but OP has stayed and brought (and rescinded) at a Shell resort. If they LIKED it enough once .. it might be an option for buying on the resale market. I have found many people who LIKE a resort but claim they always stay or WANT to stay at a higher quality level resort.

I own Wyndham resorts .. most are 3.5 star .. but it is surprising how many Wyndham owners staying in Pompano would rather be homeless than stay at the Ft Lauderdale Beach Resort a 3 star resort ... even when it costs 35% less than a Wyndham.


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## ronparise (Apr 16, 2016)

I don't understand the whole 4 star 5 star thing. I understand that they are probably a whole lot nicer than what  I own (Worldmark and Wyndham) but it really doesn't matter if the 4 star/5 star club doesn't have a resort in the places I want to vacation. 

When I found out that Wyndham has several resorts within a few hours drive from my home and a resort in San Francisco, a 50 min BART from my daughter and grandkids and a resort on the DC Beltway fairly close to my brother and sister and my wife's mother and her brothers and that Wyndham was the only timeshare system that offered that combination of resorts, and When I figured out that I could afford the fees, that's all I needed to know and I started to bid on eBay. 

Bottom line is that Wyndham has 2 and 3 star resorts where  I want to go and the 4 and 5 star timeshare companies don't 

Your needs will be different than mine  of course but I think my suggestion to focus on where you want to vacation first, then consider you budget then consult the stars is a good one


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## DeniseM (Apr 16, 2016)

vacationhopeful said:


> True, but OP has stayed and brought (and rescinded) at a Shell resort. If they LIKED it enough once .. it might be an option for buying on the resale market. I have found many people who LIKE a resort but claim they always stay or WANT to stay at a higher quality level resort.



Fair enough, but I'd bet that the sales person only showed them the top Shell resorts - not the lower quality ones.

So as I said above, it depends on whether the OP's priority really is 4/5 Star resorts.

My priority is location and view, but for some people, 4/5 Star is very important.


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## Bill4728 (Apr 16, 2016)

I'd suggest you consider the Marriott at Palm springs  They have 3 seasons and You can get mid season (White) for cheap and since it locks off, get two trades for one MFs

Trades great 
Marriott preference  ( gets Marriott to Marriott trades 20 days before anyone else)
with the lock off  get two deposits ( 1 bd and 1 studio) for each week of TS
Low MFs for a really great TS

 I would own there but DW hates the idea of owning in the desert  so instead we own 2 weeks at Marriott Newport Coast  which we use at least twice a year


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## Korley (Apr 17, 2016)

Bill4728 said:


> I'd suggest you consider the Marriott at Palm springs  They have 3 seasons and You can get mid season (White) for cheap and since it locks off, get two trades for one MFs



How cheap is the mid season? Is it's location good enough for night walk outs?


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## Roger830 (Apr 17, 2016)

It might not be a bad idea to stay away from contracts that are not prime season or popular resorts.

Owners were sold off-season rci contracts because they could get good trades. The rules were changed, now all that they get is off-season trades.

There's usually nothing wrong with buying where you want to stay.


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## bogey21 (Apr 17, 2016)

After owning Floating Weeks for a number of years I sold and bought Fixed Week, Fixed Unit.  I liked the simplicity of it and with one exception bought on the cheap.  Yes, I didn't buy at 5 Star Resorts, again with one exception.  My logic was that about all I do in my room is sleep and eat breakfast so why worry about luxury?

George


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## porto1288 (Apr 17, 2016)

Thanks for all the info.  I'm still confused about the point system.  I understand that all points don't have the same value.  Where can I find the value of points so I can make an informed decision about the property/company I go with.


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## WinniWoman (Apr 17, 2016)

Most people buy points for the flexibility of it in terms of being able to do shorter or longer stays and to exchange a lot. Weeks owners mostly buy to go to their home resort and like the simplicity of exchanging a week for a week, though with RCI the weeks are now calculated as TPU's (which are like points), as those owners can now also stay longer or shorter at a resort.

If you own a high prime time week you at a highly rated resort you should have decent trading power. 


If you buy just to exchange many times you can be disappointed if you can't get what you want. That is why I own at 2 resorts I love going to and that I can drive to without needing to fly. I use the free independent exchange companies when I need an exchange, which is rare. If I really want to go somewhere specifically, I rent from other timeshare owners.


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## DeniseM (Apr 17, 2016)

porto1288 said:


> Thanks for all the info.  I'm still confused about the point system.  I understand that all points don't have the same value.  Where can I find the value of points so I can make an informed decision about the property/company I go with.



Since there are many different points systems, there is no place to see the value of all points - they are all different and *they are not interchangeable.  *

However, if you want *4/5 Stars properties, and that is a priority, *you should look at the following resort systems, which all have internal point systems:

Starwood
Hilton
Hyatt
Marriott

There are many other points systems, but they *will not be 4/5 Stars.*


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## Janann (Apr 17, 2016)

porto1288 said:


> Thanks for all the info.  I'm still confused about the point system.  I understand that all points don't have the same value.  Where can I find the value of points so I can make an informed decision about the property/company I go with.



This chart from HGVC might help.  The HGVC points can be used for HGVC resorts, but the number of points required can go sky high.  However, you will never need more than 4,800 HGVC points to get into a 2 bedroom RCI resort (subject to availability).

The number of HGVC points for a 2 bedroom prime week can exceed 7,000 points.  I always compare that to the possibility of a very nice RCI trade for only 4,800 points.

http://www.hgvclubprogram.com/worldwide-exchange-reservations/


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## JohnPaul (May 4, 2016)

porto1288 said:


> Thanks for all the info.  I'm still confused about the point system.  I understand that all points don't have the same value.  Where can I find the value of points so I can make an informed decision about the property/company I go with.



I tell people that points are like foreign currency with no set exchange rates.  For example, our 451 Vacation Internationale points represent MUCH more than our 40,000 Starwood Staroptions.  I don't own Wyndham but it seems to take zillions of points to do anythings with them.

One could approach to get a sense is find out the number of points for a similar thing - like a 2 bedroom unit in high season.

Here are approximations in systems I own for a two bedroom high season:

Vacation Internationale - Kingsbury at Tahoe (Lake Tahoe) - Summer - 130 points
Shell Vacations Club - Vino Bello (Napa) - Summer - 9050 Points
Worldmark - Seaside (Seaside OR) - Summer - 10,000 Points
Starwood - Sheraton Mountain Vista (Avon/Beaver Creek, CO) - Ski Season - 148,100 points

Everything that I own is point based and I love the flexibility.  Some people think there is more security in deeded properties but if the points trust is set up correctly I don't believe that is true.  As an example, VI was managed by Sunterra (now absorbed into Diamond) at one point.  Sunterra went bankrupt but they couldn't touch the resorts.   

Also, because all of our systems have multiple resorts I rarely exchange with anything except my RCI points that I bought at low MF/high point resorts for exactly that purpose.

I have stayed or will be staying at the following locations within a year with no exchanges or exchange fees.  Park City, UT, Midway, UT, Lake Tahoe, CA, Sun River, OR,  Bend, OR, Long Beach, WA, Newport, OR,  Seattle, WA, Vancouver, BC, Orcas Island, WA, New York City, NY, San Francisco, CA, Napa, CA,  Welches, OR, Klamath Falls, OR, Ocean Shores, WA.

Yes, we own in several systems but most have 25 - 85 resorts.

Also, most point systems let you borrow and bank points so you can get a bigger unit or stay longer with more points.

So.  Keep up your research and count me as a vote for point systems being great.


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## JohnPaul (May 4, 2016)

*Ponts Flexibility - Stay Length*

Also forgot.  Most points systems let you book as few or as many days as you have points for that are available.

Do realize that if people do 7 one night stays in a unit vs one week long stay there will be 7 housekeepings vs 1.  Every system handles this differently but most will cost you something for housekeeping if you spread your points over shorter multiple stays.


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## jim4529 (May 7, 2016)

*Consider housekeeping costs*

I have owned 13000 Shell points for over 5 years and have never paid for housekeeping even when booking 2, 3, or more stays of different lengths. On April 22nd, 2016 I booked one night at The Legacy in Phoenix after my son's wedding, and they hit me with a $47 "housekeeping fee". When I called Shell they told me it was because my "contract" only gives me 2 free housekeeping events per USE YEAR!!  That's a new wrinkle since Wyndham has taken over. Why would anyone buy enough points for 2 or 3 or more weeks if you have to pay for housekeeping for anything over 1 week?  Considering how expensive Shell's maintenance fees are (22 cents per point per year), I would expect that to be part of those fees. 

It might be time to dump my Shell points if they are going to start nickle and diming us to death. Anyone else experience this charge?


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## e.bram (May 7, 2016)

You can use points to get into an oceanfront resort but can't be guaranteed to be in an oceanfront unit. With a fixed week for an oceanfront unit it is guaranteed.No reason to go to an oceanfront resort and have room with a dumpster view.


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## VegasBella (May 7, 2016)

porto1288 said:


> Since we would like to vary where we stay I think points would be the way to go but. . .
> What are the downsides?



I think that points are a smart way to go so long as you get enough for what you want at the right price. Points are more popular these days so there's always that. 

But since you asked about downsides I will share why my ownerships are all weeks:

When it comes to points, the price per point is often the same and you just need more points for higher value weeks. And that fluctuates with the market - points fairly accurately represent the true current value. 

However, when it comes to weeks on the resale market there often is not a big price difference between the high value and the low value weeks. And almost all resorts assign MF based on room size not season or market value. There's a market inefficiency and it benefits anyone who wants high value weeks: not only do we pay the same in MF as the owners of low value weeks but since we buy on the resale market we also pay low acquisition costs. 

So the "downside" of points is losing out on that value. Of course, if you don't actually value it yourself or if you'd end up paying a lot of extra fees to trade in RCI or II then it doesn't make sense to buy weeks rather than points. But for those of us who actually use our weeks most of the time (rather than exchange them) it's the best value.


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## VegasBella (May 7, 2016)

e.bram said:


> You can use points to get into an oceanfront resort but can't be guaranteed to be in an oceanfront unit. With a fixed week for an oceanfront unit it is guaranteed.No reason to go to an oceanfront resort and have room with a dumpster view.



I think there are some points systems that let you 'buy' views but in general you're right. My week ownership at Riviera gives me an ocean view guaranteed. Other guests use points to book there (it's managed by DRI and they use points - only legacy owners can have weeks) and I don't think they can be certain to get an ocean view. If I didn't get an ocean view there I wouldn't ever stay there. The view is that important.


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## JohnPaul (May 7, 2016)

jim4529 said:


> I have owned 13000 Shell points for over 5 years and have never paid for housekeeping even when booking 2, 3, or more stays of different lengths. On April 22nd, 2016 I booked one night at The Legacy in Phoenix after my son's wedding, and they hit me with a $47 "housekeeping fee". When I called Shell they told me it was because my "contract" only gives me 2 free housekeeping events per USE YEAR!!  That's a new wrinkle since Wyndham has taken over. Why would anyone buy enough points for 2 or 3 or more weeks if you have to pay for housekeeping for anything over 1 week?  Considering how expensive Shell's maintenance fees are (22 cents per point per year), I would expect that to be part of those fees.
> 
> It might be time to dump my Shell points if they are going to start nickle and diming us to death. Anyone else experience this charge?



You were lucky in the past.  That has always been the rules with Shell.  Shell has a ton of odd rules.


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## presley (May 8, 2016)

jim4529 said:


> I have owned 13000 Shell points for over 5 years and have never paid for housekeeping even when booking 2, 3, or more stays of different lengths. On April 22nd, 2016 I booked one night at The Legacy in Phoenix after my son's wedding, and they hit me with a $47 "housekeeping fee". When I called Shell they told me it was because my "contract" only gives me 2 free housekeeping events per USE YEAR!!  That's a new wrinkle since Wyndham has taken over. Why would anyone buy enough points for 2 or 3 or more weeks if you have to pay for housekeeping for anything over 1 week?  Considering how expensive Shell's maintenance fees are (22 cents per point per year), I would expect that to be part of those fees.
> 
> It might be time to dump my Shell points if they are going to start nickle and diming us to death. Anyone else experience this charge?



They could have changed this or they could have a made a mistake. I have 5,000 points and I am sure mine comes with 2 housekeeping tokens, but if I owned 6,000, I'd have 4. I just tried to look on the website to confirm, but I can't find the housekeeping fees on there. I'm pretty sure Cindy gets 6 per year. 

You may want to call owner services to double check. They do often have errors, but if it was an error, you will get your money back. You'd probably have to escalate the call to a supervisor to get someone who can see your account properly. In my experience, the people who answer my calls are always very polite, but they can only see what I can see and that isn't helpful because if I could see what I was calling about, I wouldn't need to call them.


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## rickandcindy23 (May 8, 2016)

*Go to club fees then a link to transaction fees is there*

*Number of Points in Membership

Number of Housekeepings Included

0 to 5,999 2 per Membership 
6,000 to 11,999 4 per Membership 
12,000 or Greater 6 per Membership 
Signature Member unlimited housekeeping 
*

The resort made a mistake, unless you used all six in a given year.  The left hand doesn't necessary know what the right hand is doing.  Shell's front desk doesn't seem to know how many HK's we have used, until suddenly we check out and have the amount on our statement or a zero.  

The problem with Shell is I never know when they will charge the housekeeping fees.  Sometimes I get HK free close to the beginning of the use year, and sometimes I am charged the fees when my use year barely started.  And when I exchange my points through SFX, giving SFX a week or two for deposit, they seem to always charge the exchangers the fee.  I know because I get the bill via email each time, which is odd.  It's all very random.  

I still think Shell resorts can be rated 4 star, especially with a little update on some.  We just stayed at Suites at Fisherman's Wharf, checked out on Friday, a 2 bedroom, and it's on Hyde St., one block from Ghirardelli Square.  I loved it.  The cabinets need upgraded, and the bathroom is not organized well and needs new cabinets and tile, but it's comfortable, and we loved watching the cable cars going up and down Hyde, and how convenient to have them running right in front!  There is a definitely lack of outlets in older properties, and I would say Suites is built more like 1940-1950.  The cabinets sure look original to me.  

I know Peacock Suites is not a great place for most, but it's fine for us, and the 2 bedrooms are more like other 2 bedrooms.  Shell did what they could with a motel-like structure.  The windows could be better, because near a highway, you can hear a lot of noise.  I ask for the opposite side of the highway.  But still, it's noisy.  

Wyndham will probably do more updates to bring the resorts to its standards.  I like Wyndham resorts, which are mostly top rated.  I remember someone telling me they would rather stay at Wyndham Grand Desert in Vegas over Marriott's Grand Chateau.  I was surprised because the Marriott is beautiful, though our room was not yet updated.


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## Karenann (May 8, 2016)

*Recommend weeks*

We have both weeks and points.  We find the weeks are better.  We own Marriott and find that we have always been able to trade our weeks for top resorts in Carribbean, Mexico, Europe and all over the US. If we trade in our weeks to use them as points in the Marriott Destination Club (in which we are enrolled), we will not have as many options as we do when trading our weeks for another resort week. We own a lock off and another week and  have destination points as well.  We always get four week long vacations for with our ownership (more if we receive an AC). If we trade our weeks for Destination Points, we will not be able to travel to the resorts we want because the points are not sufficient to trade into - for example - a 2 bedroom Marriott Hawaiian resort. But we have found we can do that by trading our resort weeks.


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## e.bram (May 8, 2016)

Many of the points systems are converted originally fixed weeks resorts. In general, the owners of prime weeks  do not convert(they use or rent) which leaves the points owners only dog week availability.


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## JohnPaul (May 10, 2016)

e.bram said:


> Many of the points systems are converted originally fixed weeks resorts. In general, the owners of prime weeks  do not convert(they use or rent) which leaves the points owners only dog week availability.



This poster makes an important distinction.  Systems like Worldmark and Vacation Internationale are COMPLETELY points and ALL inventory is available to all owners as long as you have enough points to book.

Others that started as weeks and tried to go to points have the problem the poster mentions.

We also own with Shell Vacations Club.  It started out as weeks before SVC was created but I've never had an issue booking with them.

We own in W 57th St w Hilton and it is all points as well, although you have a deeded ownership underlying the points.

So.   Research, research, research.  With proper research you will find many great points systems.


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