# Looking to Buy a TS for Primarily Exchanging



## GeorgeP (Mar 10, 2012)

Ok, I have never exchanged before and frankly it is a little confusing to me.  I've been steadily researching it though.  I can see the advantages in it.  We currently travel to Vegas about 3 times a year.  I currently own two one bedroom units (polo towers and PH Elara formerly westgate).  I am thinking of buying a two bedroom lockoff in Vegas with the primary intention of using it to exchange for vacation in other areas of the country. I've read you can split a lockoff and get a lot more out of the exchange.  There are a couple TS in Vegas that are nice resorts in decent areas with low MF.  Is this a good idea or should I be trying a differenct approach.  Are there better TS that would be cheap to buy and would get decent exchanges?  I was thinking Vegas since we go there so often and worst case scenario we would probably still use it.  Any help or advice for this newbie is greatly appreciated, thanks.


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## Passepartout (Mar 10, 2012)

Vegas is so overbuilt that rentals are perennially available cheaper than MF. Grandview listed this week on RCI Last Call for $269 a week. No reason to own unless you want a specific week at a specific location, but then that isn't exchanging, is it?

If I was looking to have one to exchange, I'd buy a summer week at a beach So Cal resort. Or Hawaii. I bought a summer week at Yellowstone. These always exchange at a premium. Or buy into a mini system like Hilton, Hyatt, Marriott. Or even Wyndham. Then you are not tied to any one location and can go to Las Vegas if you wish.

Jim


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## Beefnot (Mar 11, 2012)

California and Hawaii are relatively expensive to purchase for trading, especially Hawaii. Even though Vegas and Orlando and Branson are "overbuilt", they are also high demand areas during certain times of the year. Buying cheap non-developer controlled TS in those areas is worth considering.  If you are looking to travel to high supply areas like cities I referenced, or Palm Springs too, then there is really no reason to buy any more timeshares. Just rent from owners or do the RCI Last Calls or II Getaways. If Hawaii or ski locations or hotel-branded properties, etc., a cheap trader may be a decent option.  I am not a proponent of buying pricy TS.  Let the brand-snobs and those with money falling out of their pockets buy those properties and you trade into them for a fraction of what they spend on MFs.


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## Timeshare Von (Mar 11, 2012)

Beefnot said:


> California and Hawaii are relatively expensive to purchase for trading, especially Hawaii.



With a little research, you can find a good deal or two in Hawaii to be used for trading with RCI.


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## theo (Mar 11, 2012)

*Rolling those dice...*



GeorgeP said:


> Ok, I have never exchanged before and frankly it is a little confusing to me.  I've been steadily researching it though.  I can see the advantages in it.  We currently travel to Vegas about 3 times a year.  I currently own two one bedroom units (polo towers and PH Elara formerly westgate).  I am thinking of buying a two bedroom lockoff in Vegas with the primary intention of using it to exchange for vacation in other areas of the country. I've read you can split a lockoff and get a lot more out of the exchange.  There are a couple TS in Vegas that are nice resorts in decent areas with low MF.  Is this a good idea or should I be trying a differenct approach.  Are there better TS that would be cheap to buy and would get decent exchanges?  I was thinking Vegas since we go there so often and worst case scenario we would probably still use it.  Any help or advice for this newbie is greatly appreciated, thanks.



My *personal opinion* is that "buying primarily to exchange" is too much of a crap shoot, with odds I dislike. With ever-changing "valuations" of deposits and ever increasing maintenance fees, "buying to exchange" is something I simply would never consider. YMMV.


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## robcrusoe (Mar 11, 2012)

GeorgeP said:


> Looking to Buy a TS for Primarily Exchanging


don't do it
the exchange companies keep changing the rules
you can never stay ahead
I have several bought for the same reason that I'll gladly sell
exchange using  dollars  you'll end up much happier


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## robcrusoe (Mar 11, 2012)

Timeshare Von said:


> With a little research, you can find a good deal or two in Hawaii to be used for trading with RCI.


it would take too much research to find your Hawaiian timeshare that is a good trader AND has _affordable maintenance fees_.  Just ask owners at Point at Poipu!  The key is good trader AND  _affordable maintenance fees_.  Ever rising MFs and exchange fees make this untenable.


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## robcrusoe (Mar 11, 2012)

theo said:


> My *personal opinion* is that "buying primarily to exchange" is too much of a crap shoot, with odds I dislike. With ever-changing "valuations" of deposits and ever increasing maintenance fees, "buying to exchange" is something I simply would never consider. YMMV.


YAY!! Theo!!!


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## robcrusoe (Mar 11, 2012)

Beefnot said:


> California and Hawaii are relatively expensive to purchase for trading, especially Hawaii. Even though Vegas and Orlando and Branson are "overbuilt", they are also high demand areas during certain times of the year. Buying cheap non-developer controlled TS in those areas is worth considering.  If you are looking to travel to high supply areas like cities I referenced, or Palm Springs too, then there is really no reason to buy any more timeshares. Just rent from owners or do the RCI Last Calls or II Getaways. If Hawaii or ski locations or hotel-branded properties, etc., a cheap trader may be a decent option.  I am not a proponent of buying pricy TS.  Let the brand-snobs and those with money falling out of their pockets buy those properties and you trade into them for a fraction of what they spend on MFs.


  YAY!!  Soy!!!


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## e.bram (Mar 11, 2012)

Beefnot:
If you want an oceanfront(ie. CA of Cape Cod )unit in prime time how are you going to exchange into such a unit when 99.9% of the owners use them may rent them? But do not exchange such a unit.


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## Beefnot (Mar 11, 2012)

e.bram said:


> Beefnot:
> If you want an oceanfront(ie. CA of Cape Cod )unit in prime time how are you going to exchange into such a unit when 99.9% of the owners use them may rent them? But do not exchange such a unit.



Eh, beats me.


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## Timeshare Von (Mar 11, 2012)

robcrusoe said:


> it would take too much research to find your Hawaiian timeshare that is a good trader AND has _affordable maintenance fees_.  Just ask owners at Point at Poipu!  The key is good trader AND  _affordable maintenance fees_.  Ever rising MFs and exchange fees make this untenable.



"MY" Hawaii timeshare is in my profile, so very easy to find.  I also believe I've posted often about the great TPU value it has for a low (under $400) MF.  So yes, it should be easy to research.


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## MichaelColey (Mar 11, 2012)

theo said:


> My *personal opinion* is that "buying primarily to exchange" is too much of a crap shoot, with odds I dislike. With ever-changing "valuations" of deposits and ever increasing maintenance fees, "buying to exchange" is something I simply would never consider. YMMV.


I think that's the majority opinion here on TUG (where one of the mantras is to buy where you want to go), but there are quite a few of us who have done quite well exchanging, too.

I'm relatively new at this (coming up on 2 years in June), but I've done about 40 timeshare exchanges (plus several extra vacations and rentals from other owners) in that time, and I've been EXTREMELY happy with the places I've been able to exchange into and the overall costs.  I've exchanged into Hawaii for $300-$500 (my total cost per week), NYC for under $150/night, Branson for $200-$300/week, Orlando for $200-$300, DVC (Orlando and California) for $525-$750, and many other places.

If you are going to exchange, flexibility is the key.  Dual-affiliated resorts give you more flexibility.  Red weeks give you more trading power for the same MF.  Lockoffs give you more flexibility.  RCI Resorts that aren't in RCI Points gives you the option to PFD into RCI Points.  Units you could rent for more than the MF open up another possibility.  "Locations you wouldn't mind vacationing to" is also a good thing, but probably the least important of my criteria.


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## sandkastle4966 (Mar 11, 2012)

I have never seen my ocean front SoCal, and never use my Myrtle beach (at least I have see it)....and do nothing but exchange.  I am quite happy with this model...........my cost per TPU is reasonable.  Cant argue with exchanging into Vail 2 bedrooms plus loft (10/8) for a total cost of $800 for the week


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## Beefnot (Mar 11, 2012)

The whole TUG mantra thing is a bit shallow for me. For those who are pretty basic, autopilot types, maybe it makes sense, lest it set up people to fail and hate timesharing. But for those who are amped on research and maximizing their vacations, like many of those here on TUG, then exchanging--and cost-effective exchanging at that--is where much of the delight in timesharing will be fed from.


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## slip (Mar 11, 2012)

A lot seems to be attitude. Everyone wants to trade their Motel 6 timeshare 
and if they don't get Marriott quality they are down on exchanging. You of
coarse what to get close trades but going to the different area is worth the
cost of the exchange. 

You can make a hobby out of it and put in some time to get really good trades
but you have to be flexible. I don't trade often but I've been fine with what 
I've gotten.

And yes you can use Hawaii weeks to get good value exchanges. Some Hawaii
weeks are cheaper than many other places.


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## Timeshare Von (Mar 11, 2012)

I have to add, that I do believe in the "buy where you wanna vacation" theory too.  When I bought Wyndham Kingsgate via resale it was exactly for that reason. Being from Virginia and having family still in the area in 2001, it made sense to own there to stay there as well as to trade.  Fast forward, my sister left the area, RCI exchanging went soft with TPUs (I used to get great internal preference to other Wyndham's before!) . . . and the fact that we had been to Wmsburg three times over 8 or 9 years . . . it just made sense to give it away.

Our Wyndham Flagstaff was given to us by someone who hadn't used it for their last 2 years of ownership.  We happily took care of the closing costs in 2003 and got their banked week on top of that.  We enjoyed vacating in that area twice and also received great exchanges via RCI thanks to the Wyndham internal preference.  When the POA offering a deedback, it made sense to take advantage of it especially since obtaining an exchange into that resort is pretty easy . . . or we could use our Wyndham contract to get there too.

So with the  change in our vacationing patterns coupled with the changes in RCI exchanges in late 2010, it just made sense to divest ourselves of these last year.


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## T_R_Oglodyte (Mar 11, 2012)

If you want to buy primarily for trading, here's a checklist I would try to work though:

1. A location that you could get to if sometime you decided to use the unit.

2. Sold out property, controlled by owners.

3. Reasonably strong year-round demand, so even off-season weeks have value and can be given away if necessary to maintain the owner base.

4. Works with all exchange companies (RCI and II) and will be accepted by independent exchange companies.

5. In a location where there is not an overabundance of timeshares and there is not much opportunity to add more.

6. Strong management with reasonable maintenance fees.  Be suspicious if it has the lowest fees because that probably means reserve accounts are underfunded.  Look for a resort that does regular reserve fee funding evaluations and appropriately funds the accounts.

7. Has good trade value (as indicated by parameters such as RCI Points).

8. Has at least the minimum exchange company hospitality and amenity ratings (useful for being able to trade up).

9. Gives you access to peak season weeks and allows you to select the week to be deposited with an exchange company.

There are some locations that I believe meet all of those criteria.  I leave it to others to identify them; in my opinion that's commercially valuable information that I'm not going to give away.


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## Steve (Mar 11, 2012)

*WorldMark*

After having owned and exchanged many, many timeshares over the past 13 years, I have come to the conclusion that the best timeshare for pure trading is WorldMark.  There are many reasons for this including:

1)  You can buy a small credit package and then rent extra credits easily and cheaply from other owners if you want more vacations.  This way you have a minimal cash outlay but can vacation as much...or as little...as you want.  It's really easy and cost effective to do this.

2)  WorldMark maintenance fees are well below the industry average and will stay low due to restrictions in the bylaws.  

3)  If you want to exchange within the WorldMark family of resorts, there are no exchange fees and very liberal cancellation policies.

4)  WorldMark is dual affiliated with RCI and II.  The trade power is very good with II.  (I have not exchanged my WorldMark credits with RCI, so I can't say on that.)  You can request first and your credits are not deducted...nor tied up in any way...until your exchange comes through.  

5)  Multiple exchange requests at one time.  With even a small ownership, you can literally have a dozen exchange requests in II at one time.  If you get a few that you like, just cancel the rest.  There is never a time when you have no weeks to search with.  Your ability to put in exchange requests is unlimited...and you simply rent the credits to cover your actual exchanges when your requests are fulfilled.

6)  Wide range of exchange options.  WorldMark will trade into everything from standard resorts to the Four Seasons...and everything in between.  It is not limited by II to either high or low end properties like many other resorts.  

In summary, for a combination of low cost and flexibility, there simply is no equal to WorldMark.  I'm not a huge fan of the resorts or the Wyndham corporate ownership, but for trading, the system can't be beat.

Steve


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## T_R_Oglodyte (Mar 11, 2012)

Steve said:


> After having owned and exchanged many, many timeshares over the past 13 years, I have come to the conclusion that the best timeshare for pure trading is WorldMark.



I pretty much agree with you looking back in time.  The issue is looking forward in time, and in that regard my concern with Worldmark is that Wyndham dominates the operation and anyone who owns Worldmark should expect that in the future it will be run for Wyndham's benefit, not the owners benefit.  

If you're not comfortable getting in bed with Wyndham, you shouldn't get involved with Worldmark.


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## easyrider (Mar 12, 2012)

T_R_Oglodyte said:


> I pretty much agree with you looking back in time.  The issue is looking forward in time, and in that regard my concern with Worldmark is that Wyndham dominates the operation and anyone who owns Worldmark should expect that in the future it will be run for Wyndham's benefit, not the owners benefit.
> 
> If you're not comfortable getting in bed with Wyndham, you shouldn't get involved with Worldmark.



Wyndham has added around 22 resorts to the Worldmark inventory. Worldmark has 60 or so resorts plus Worldmark South Pacific at 25 or so giving us the ability to stay, trade or rent out over 100 locations.

Wyndham has also effected new resale contracts by not including the affiliated resorts giving new resale buyers access to the 60 Worldmark the Club locations only.

Newer resale Worldmark contracts trades into II and RCI very well.


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## northpole (Mar 12, 2012)

RE: Worldmark...

I think that the worldmark system is great, they have many resorts and there's no transfer fee to pay if you're happy with their resorts (which we are).  HOWEVER, they aren't as cheap to buy as many other resorts.  I'm sure that you know it's pretty easy to get an "almost free" timeshare.

We own Worldmark (15,000 pts)  and 3 timeshare resorts in Kauai and 1 in Palm Springs.  This year we decided not to go to Kauai and to stay closer to home (new baby in the house).  So we exchanged our Kauai weeks through Trading Places and will be staying in the Pacific Northwest.

Our exchange experience has been quite positive with Trading Places.  Through Trading Places we received bonus weeks for each week that we deposited, so we may get 6 weeks out of our 3 deposited weeks (of course the bonus weeks can only been booked 45 days in advance and still cost $189 per week, but we've used one so far and will probably get to use the others).  

If you're flexible and are content with "regular" timeshares (as opposed to Marriotts and Four Seasons), I don't think that owning a timeshare for trading is such a bad idea...  

If you want to "trade-up", and stay in nicer timeshares than you own, I've heard of several Worldmark owners getting good weeks with Marriott and Four Seasons type resorts. (Through II)  I have seen some Worldmark points packages sell for relatively good prices on eBay and some other sites - but never for free.


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## Pmuppet (Mar 12, 2012)

*Market seems to significantly favor renters*

I have been considering buying a trader myself, but the numbers just dont seem to add up to me.  First off, if i buy a TS i am taking significant risk (possible increase in MF, assessments, trading rules,etc). As a result, i want to ensure that my trade nets me a favorable trade in at least 80% of my trades.  

If not, you may as well rent a week and avoid the downside risk (cause TS dont appreciate so you cant expect an upside gain).  I had a good trader in florida (coconut bay new years week) and it booked 36 points with rci.  The MF, rci annual fee, and exchange fee totalled about $850.  I could exchange it for hawaii, whistler, or So Cal, but it was a lengthy process to get a trade and the arrival windows are usually within 90 days.  If i rent, for my exchange costs($850), i find lots of availabilty.  I can also spend a little more to get an even more attractive property/week.  That isnt possible with a RCI exchange, cash is king, i guess.

What i found was there are some deals on TS that will essentially break even financially once you pay your MF, annual rci due, and exchange fees.  But why would you buy if you only broke even?  

With companies continually changing the rules and modifying policies to make profitable trading riskier, i dont recommend it.

Because the downside risk (tens of thousands over the life of the property) dont outweigh the upside gains (few hundred dollars on a successful trade).

Stay on the sideline, enjoy the pletheria of rentals available.  I just got back from kauai after spending a week at the princeville westin.  Total cost to me for the week was $600.  I will likely be renting until the market for timeshares returns to reality (from a MF perspective).


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## Ridewithme38 (Mar 12, 2012)

Pmuppet said:


> What i found was there are some deals on TS that will essentially break even financially once you pay your MF, annual rci due, and exchange fees.  But why would you buy if you only broke even?



Define break even? I purchased a lockoff for $1 and seller paid all closing costs and gave me that years use free, MF about $816...When trading i am able to trade my one week for atleast 2 to 3 at other places all for about $450 a week including RCI Membership and Exchange fees...this isn't uncommon or hard to do with just a little bit of research

IMO, its important to buy where you want to stay, but equally if not more important is that the place has a good exchange value


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## Karenann (Mar 12, 2012)

My husband and I own Marriott timeshares and have never been back to the ones we own.  We have been exchanging since purchasing our first timeshare in 2007.  We have been to Aruba (2 times), Hawaii (4 times), Park City Utah,  St. Thomas, St. Kitts, Lake Tahoe and Newport Coast, Ca.  We are headed back to Kauai, Newport Coast and on to Son Antem, Spain this coming year.  I have not had any problems with exchanging and highly recommend buying to exchange. My advice would be to purchase a timeshare in a desirable location in a desirable time period.  This strategy gives you the best exchange power.


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## Beefnot (Mar 12, 2012)

Pmuppet said:


> Stay on the sideline, enjoy the pletheria of rentals available.  I just got back from kauai after spending a week at the princeville westin.  Total cost to me for the week was $600.  I will likely be renting until the market for timeshares returns to reality (from a MF perspective).



$600?  Did you, ahem, *lowball* someone to get that price?


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## teshiachris (Mar 12, 2012)

*Just Bought Primarily for Trading*

Well reading all this is quite interesting.  I just purchased my 2nd timeshare a 2br 2ba sleeps 6 marriott in hilton head island, sc week 33 August week, high demand.  Although i have no problem staying there i bought it primarily to trade.  Hope it works out.

Chris


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## gnorth16 (Mar 12, 2012)

Keep in mind that Starwood (Sheraton and Westin) has "preference" within the II exchange system.  You would get first crack ahead of non-Starwood TS owners regarding exchanges.  Most of the other major companies have this as well.  Look at the portfolios of Marriott, Starwood, Worldmark,HGVC and Wyndham to see where they are located and who has priority in what exchange system.  This may affect your decision.  

I own Starwood for this reason and HGVC for the points flexibility for various resorts/destinations I would visit.  I will be branching out (eventually) and buying a Marriott (and perhaps a Worldmark - since everyone loves it!) to get priority into those systems as well.  

Some may advocate towards RCI points and weeks TPU's.  Not my forte, nor do I want to venture into it.  

Best of Luck.


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## MichaelColey (Mar 12, 2012)

Pmuppet said:


> Stay on the sideline, enjoy the pletheria of rentals available. I just got back from kauai after spending a week at the princeville westin. Total cost to me for the week was $600. I will likely be renting until the market for timeshares returns to reality (from a MF perspective).





Beefnot said:


> $600? Did you, ahem, *lowball* someone to get that price?


$600 isn't *that* low with a good trader.  My TPU cost is about $10 (factoring in purchase costs, maintenance fees, combine fees, annual fees, etc.), so here's my total cost of the Hawaii weeks I've exchanged for:

2BR Wyndham Kona Hawaiian - 24 TPU - $419
2BR Wyndham Kona Hawaiian - 14 TPU - $319
2BR HGVC Hilton Hawaiian Village Lagoon Tower - 33 TPU - $509
2BR Point at Poipu - 20 TPU - $379
2BR Kings' Land - 16 TPU - $339
2BR Maui Lea at Maui Hill - 26 TPU - $439
That's six weeks for $2404, or about $400 per week.

Needless to say, I think exchanging can work pretty good.


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## momeason (Mar 12, 2012)

MichaelColey said:


> $600 isn't *that* low with a good trader.  My TPU cost is about $10 (factoring in purchase costs, maintenance fees, combine fees, annual fees, etc.), so here's my total cost of the Hawaii weeks I've exchanged for:
> 
> 2BR Wyndham Kona Hawaiian - 24 TPU - $419
> 2BR Wyndham Kona Hawaiian - 14 TPU - $319
> ...



I want you to work for me. Great prices for Hawaii. Did you include exchange fees? Your success makes me want to try RCI.


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## MichaelColey (Mar 12, 2012)

I don't have time to work for anyone.  We're too busy traveling, running two businesses, homeschooling our kids, etc.


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## Beefnot (Mar 13, 2012)

MichaelColey said:


> $600 isn't *that* low with a good trader.  My TPU cost is about $10 (factoring in purchase costs, maintenance fees, combine fees, annual fees, etc.), so here's my total cost of the Hawaii weeks I've exchanged for:
> 
> 2BR Wyndham Kona Hawaiian - 24 TPU - $419
> 2BR Wyndham Kona Hawaiian - 14 TPU - $319
> ...



Your value strategy is quite impressive, I love it. But in the case of pmuppet, s/he managed to straight up rent Westin Princeville for $600. Granted, we dont know what size unit, but still that is damn good.


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## Pmuppet (Mar 13, 2012)

*My definition of breakeven*



Ridewithme38 said:


> Define break even? I purchased a lockoff for $1 and seller paid all closing costs and gave me that years use free, MF about $816...When trading i am able to trade my one week for atleast 2 to 3 at other places all for about $450 a week including RCI Membership and Exchange fees...this isn't uncommon or hard to do with just a little bit of research
> 
> IMO, its important to buy where you want to stay, but equally if not more important is that the place has a good exchange value


.

Breakeven to me, means you need to get a significantly better deal from buying (cause you take risk when you buy, so you better be rewarded for that risk).  In my case, I had a TS with good trading power with RCI.  The MF were only $550, but RCI fees were about $250 which the total cost was about $800/year.  I was able to trade this for most RCI in Hawaii as well as properties in Whistler during peak ski weeks.  

This essentially was a break even cause I could rent the identical property via a solid ebayer (good feedback/rental history) for $800.  It broke even financially, for me, but I don't enter risky real estate transactions that only break even.  Cause if reserves are growing at a pace higher than the depreciation of the building, you are looking at a future assessment (to rebuild).  Not to mention other risks associated w/TS.


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## Pmuppet (Mar 13, 2012)

Beefnot said:


> $600?  Did you, ahem, *lowball* someone to get that price?



Well, I suspect some people probably would consider it a lowball offer (considering the original owners MF were about $2,000), but I don't think any honest offer a lowball (assuming if they accept the offer, you follow through and buy it).  The unit was a 1 bed/1bath n

I don't believe my Westin rental for $600 is a norm, by any means.  It was listed on Ebay for $900 about 30 days out.  Due to the flight rates, it only made sense for me to offer $600 for the week.  He had a relatively low feedback score, but he was local to me, so I felt the risk was worth it.  

This was an II exchange, and I saw Denise posted previously that renting exchanges is a no no.  So, I was a bit concerned till we checked in.  As a result, I don't think people can expect this is the true market value for Westin Kauai.  I do see a number of rentals via ebay ranging from $900-$1500.  Here is an auction for Westin Kauai if anyone is interested.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/One-Week-We...40716604848?pt=US_Lodging&hash=item20c35cfdb0


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## Beefnot (Mar 13, 2012)

Fantastic deal on your part.  I hope all the folks who absolutely abhor "lowballers" see this!


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## Pmuppet (Mar 13, 2012)

*Impressive list, Michael*



momeason said:


> I want you to work for me. Great prices for Hawaii. Did you include exchange fees? Your success makes me want to try RCI.



That is a list of impressive deals.  I think anyone trading for $400/week consistently for Hawaii.

I would classify you as an expert trader and myself as an expert renter.  Since I only get two maybe three weeks a year of vacation, all these trades would have little value to me (as well as the second bedroom as it is just my wife and myself traveling).

Renting is generally easier, cause you can eliminate variables/roadblocks by increasing your price.  

Bottom line, I don't recommend buying to anyone who hasn't spent at least 250hours on Tug reading trading strategies as there are a lot of timeshares out there.  If you spend that much time, that signals you really enjoy learning about timeshares, cause if you buy, you will need to have passion to continue to research to stay ahead of the curve.

I have spent a couple thousand hours on the topic of timeshares, and I still don't know enough to make a purchase for trading.  What I need to learn more about is Starwood trades into Hawaii.  I am interested in possibly buying cause I meet a couple critical variables mentioned by a previous poster.

1.  I can travel to the timeshare I own and love it.  (SDO can be used for Spring Training, which is desirable to me)
2.  It can be traded for properties I like.  (who doesn't like Westin in Maui or Kauai).

What I need to find out is how far out can you book a realistic trade, what type of room you are guaranteed when you trade (or can expect the majority of the time), and the weeks you can expect to trade for.  What concerns me about this property is the cost is so low (can be bought for $1,000 or less via ebay).  

If Starwood changes their policies to become unfavorable to SDO owners (and they will at some point in the next decade as they consistantly evolve), will this property be able to be unloaded?  I am afraid the only value in them now is the fact they are a good trader to more desireble Starwood properties.  If/when that goes away, is there any value in the unit?


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## Beefnot (Mar 13, 2012)

Hotel-branded timeshares = High MFs.  You will not even get anywhere close to MichaelColey's experience if you're looking to maximize your vacation value.


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## Ridewithme38 (Mar 13, 2012)

Beefnot said:


> Hotel-branded timeshares = High MFs.  You will not even get anywhere close to MichaelColey's experience if you're looking to maximize your vacation value.



If i remember correctly, MichaelColey owns one of the most TPU heavy resorts available, he can get between 200-500 TPU's a year....Almost no one, unless they own there, will be able to get close

If your looking to buy ONLY to exchange, i can't think of a better place to buy...


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## Pmuppet (Mar 13, 2012)

Beefnot said:


> Fantastic deal on your part.  I hope all the folks who absolutely abhor "lowballers" see this!



Thanks, we were very pleased with it, and even though it rained 18 inches during the week we were there, we still loved it.  Personally, I don't care if owners get mad at me for publishing my deal as I believe it sets the floor for the market and it helps them, imo (cause knowledge is power, and knowing the price of transactions provides transparency).  I wouldn't expect a deal like that to come along again cause it was risky, imo.  

What percentage of the population is willing to fly to Hawaii for $1,000/ticket when their condo might turn out to a fake and you have to find a place to stay for the week once you step off onto the island?  If you take on that level of risk, you should expect to pay significantly less.  I pumped up the seller's ebay feedback, so hopefully, he will get more for his next transaction.

Owners should just respond to lowballers that this deal was with a low feedback ebay seller, with no paypal protection, during the rainy season, one bedroom terrance (not ocean) view, and a II trade rental.  

I would be happy to pay $1200 for a week in a heartbeat for a riskless rental, and I consider myself a bargain shopper when it comes to travel.

Any owners who think I lowballed them aren't realists cause I paid him what the property was worth.


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## gnorth16 (Mar 14, 2012)

Remember, some people can't or at the minimum, are uncomfortable with booking a trip less than 30 days out.  If you have the ability to wait for some last minute deals AND can find some decent flights as well, it is worth it.  I prefer to exchange and then search for cheap flights until I find what I am looking for.  To each their own.


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## geekette (Mar 14, 2012)

theo said:


> My *personal opinion* is that "buying primarily to exchange" is too much of a crap shoot, with odds I dislike. With ever-changing "valuations" of deposits and ever increasing maintenance fees, "buying to exchange" is something I simply would never consider. YMMV.



Ditto.  Why exchange when you can rent?  Get right where you want to go without the middleman.


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## geekette (Mar 14, 2012)

e.bram said:


> Beefnot:
> If you want an oceanfront(ie. CA of Cape Cod )unit in prime time how are you going to exchange into such a unit when 99.9% of the owners use them may rent them? But do not exchange such a unit.



lucky for me to not want that.  Were I desperate to be there, I could stand a hotel.  Or find that .1% looking to rent out!


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## geekette (Mar 14, 2012)

Beefnot said:


> The whole TUG mantra thing is a bit shallow for me. For those who are pretty basic, autopilot types, maybe it makes sense, lest it set up people to fail and hate timesharing. But for those who are amped on research and maximizing their vacations, like many of those here on TUG, then exchanging--and cost-effective exchanging at that--is where much of the delight in timesharing will be fed from.



cost-effective is the key.  exchanging is becoming less and less cost-effective as RCI, in particular, continues fee increases plus introduces new fees frequently.

cheap traders may or may not continue to do ok.  For me it's more cost-effective to use their sell-offs vs giving them a week.


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## Ridewithme38 (Mar 14, 2012)

geekette said:


> Ditto.  Why exchange when you can rent?  Get right where you want to go without the middleman.



Because renting costs 3x-4x as much...Seriously, if you look at the average cost of exchanges in this thread alone ($300-$700) and compare that to the crazy prices people charge to rent...you'll see, your statement is backwards...Why rent, when you can exchange??


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## Ridewithme38 (Mar 14, 2012)

geekette said:


> cost-effective is the key.  exchanging is becoming less and less cost-effective as RCI, in particular, continues fee increases plus introduces new fees frequently.
> 
> cheap traders may or may not continue to do ok.  For me it's more cost-effective to use their sell-offs vs giving them a week.



Lets do the math....My TPU's cost $15 each, the BEST OF THE BEST of RCI is 60 TPU's, even WITH the exchange fee that's only....$1089....you can't even get the bottom of the barrel rentals for that amount


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## Vincent Lehr (Mar 14, 2012)

*Worldmark is the best for exchange*

Points systems have the highest trading power of any timeshare resorts.  Worldmark has Unsurpassed trading ability as I was told by the VP of RCI himself.  They also have the lowest maintenance fee's of any of the resorts and the club is controlled by the owners.  Many people are confused about the relationship between Wyndham and Worldmark, but the club is ran by the owners and cannot be changed by Wyndham.  Wyndham is just the developer that bought the marketing rights.  

As stated above they have dual affiliation with RCI and II along with all of the other exchange companies and they have direct access to their own portal on their website.  You can also get weeks for a third of the cost at non points resorts if you book within 6 weeks of when you travel.  They also have a large system with many resorts along with three in Vegas if you don't want to have to exchange.  The only thing you remember with them is the earlier you request the better chances you have.  The last statistic I saw from them said 93% of owners get their request within 2-6 weeks.


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