# All 2008 Starwood Maintenance Fee Threads/merged (2/27)



## grgs (Dec 10, 2007)

Just noticed that my Westin Kierland mf are posted:

2 bd Platinum LO:

$1044.58 mf
$     53.60 tax
$ 109.00 svn fee
$1207.18 total

This 7.4% higher than last year's total of $1124.30.

(note: I did not include the optional ARDA contribution.)

Glorian


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## formerhater (Dec 10, 2007)

My Kierland 1 BR (small) Platinum EOY

Maintenance Fee(s)   $ 220.57  
Tax                        $   11.32  
Membership Fee        $ 109.00  
_____________________________
TOTAL                     $340.89


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## myip (Dec 10, 2007)

Sheraton Broadway Plantation 2bedroom Lock off

Maintenance Fee(s)  	 	  $ 849.82
Doesnot include SVN fees.


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## myip (Dec 10, 2007)

*SDO Maintenance fees.*

Anyone know what is the 2008 maintenance fees?

Thanks,
Maria


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## grgs (Dec 10, 2007)

SDO fees are not yet posted--at least mine aren't.

Glorian


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## RLG (Dec 10, 2007)

myip said:


> Sheraton Broadway Plantation 2bedroom Lock off
> 
> Maintenance Fee(s)  	 	  $ 849.82
> Doesnot include SVN fees.



I'm pretty sure Maria owns in the new Palmetto section which has higher maintenance. 

My two bedroom, non lockoff in the older section went up from 616.87 to 679.15 (excluding SVN and ARDA fees).  More than a 10% increase!


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## myip (Dec 10, 2007)

RLG said:


> I'm pretty sure Maria owns in the new Palmetto section which has higher maintenance.
> 
> My two bedroom, non lockoff in the older section went up from 616.87 to 679.15 (excluding SVN and ARDA fees).  More than a 10% increase!


My is the old phase.  It is 2 bedroom lockoff.


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## barndweller (Dec 10, 2007)

Villas of Cave Creek
Sheraton managed but I'm not a member of SVN

2 bedroom  $785.57 inc prop tax
increase of 14.8% over last year


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## RLG (Dec 11, 2007)

myip said:


> My is the old phase.  It is 2 bedroom lockoff.



Wow. 

I had no idea that there was such a large difference between the maintenance of the regular 2 bedroom and the 2 bedroom lockoffs at SBP.  

25% higher maintenance seems like a big premium for the lockoff.


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## BradC (Dec 11, 2007)

RLG said:


> 25% higher maintenance seems like a big premium for the lockoff.


That's actually not out of line if you look at it by square footage.

The 2br lockoff is listed at 1335 square feet.  The 2br is 1030 square feet.

The lockoff unit is nearly 30% larger.


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## RLG (Dec 11, 2007)

BradC said:


> That's actually not out of line if you look at it by square footage.
> 
> The 2br lockoff is listed at 1335 square feet.  The 2br is 1030 square feet.
> 
> The lockoff unit is nearly 30% larger.




Interesting.  I hadn't realized there was such a big size disparity.  The additional flexibility of the lockoff is worth something too. 

I'm curious now whether the per square foot maintenance (at the same resort) tends to increase or decrease for larger size units.


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## grgs (Dec 12, 2007)

*Sheraton Vistana Resort (Cascades section)*

Sheraton Vistana (Cascades) 2 bd non-LO:

$644.83 mf
$104.28 tax
$754.11 total

This is an increase of 1.4% over last year's total of $743.33.  

(note: this does not include the optional ARDA contribution or the SVN fee). 

Glorian


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## grgs (Dec 13, 2007)

*Sheraton Desert Oasis*

Sheraton Desert Oasis 1 bd premium:

$546.04 mf

This is an increase of 9% over last year's total of $500.88.

(note: this does not include the optional ARDA contribution or the SVN fee; taxes are not broken out separately). 

Glorian


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## nodge (Dec 13, 2007)

*Sheraton Desert Oasis - 2 Bedroom L/0 2008 Maint Fee*

The maint fee for a 2 bedroom lock-off at SDO for 2008 is US$794.24 (which includes taxes, but not the SVN or optional ARDA fee).  This is also an increase of 9% over last year (US$728.46).

-nodge


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## Fletcher921 (Dec 14, 2007)

*2008 Mission Hills Fee's are $1407.74*

887.04  Vacation ownership assessment
174.77  Condo common assessment
236.93  Master association assessment
109.00  SVN membership fee
__5.00  Voluntary ARDA ROC PAC contribution

$1412.74


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## myip (Dec 14, 2007)

Fletcher921 said:


> 887.04  Vacation ownership assessment
> 174.77  Condo common assessment
> 236.93  Master association assessment
> 109.00  SVN membership fee
> ...



Do you have to taxes out of the maintenance fees?


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## Transit (Dec 14, 2007)

Vistana Villages 2 bed standard  

      Maintenance Fee(s)    $ 726.08  

Tax - If Applicable    $ 126.25  

Membership Fee - If Applicable    $ 109.00  

Other*    $ 0.00  

Interest    $ 0.00  

Late Fees    $ 0.00  

ARDA ROC PAC Contrib.**    $ 5.00  

Sub-Total
Current Year Charges    $ 966.33


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## TimC (Dec 15, 2007)

I bought a Sheraton Desert Oasis EOY (every other year) ownership earlier this year with first use in 2009.  My Maintenance Fees are listed as $293.02, which is $586.04 over two years.  This amount is $40 more than the annual  MF as listed by grgs.  Is this standard for EOY ownerships?

Also, even though I am a resale purchaser, my current year charges show the $109 membership fee as part of my total due.  Also, my onwership details show the Starpoint and Staroption values.  Is this true of all ownerships, whether eligible for SVN or not?

I just read seenett's summary of SVN and SVO, along with nettleton's Starpoint spreadsheet.  In the spreadsheet, nettleton wrote about Desert Oasis: 

"owners who bought their weeks before the resort was part of SVN have been offered SVN membership. The previous developer sold only one season; year round float for weeks 1-52.  The weeks are considered Gold for SPG purposes."

seenett wrote: "Owners of some older resorts built and sold by a previous developer (Embassy, Vistana, etc.) before Starwood took control may be allowed to “buy in” to the SVN network and participate fully in the StarOption and StarPoint features; though sometimes at reduced point values.  Because many of these resort weeks were purchased before SVN was introduced, there is very limited availability of these weeks within the SVN system.  On occasion, SVO will offer SVN membership to the current owners of these weeks in order to get more weeks from that resort to be available within SVN."

The ownership I bought was one of these year round float ownerships sold by the previous developer.  I'm looking for advice - should I pay the membership fee and assume that I will be allowed to participate in starpoints and staroptions?  Should I ask whether I am eligible?  Anything else I should know?

Thanks


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## Pedro (Dec 15, 2007)

myip said:


> Do you have to taxes out of the maintenance fees?


 
The taxes for WMH are billed separately by Riverside County.  That is $219.24 for this year.


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## myip (Dec 15, 2007)

TimC said:


> I bought a Sheraton Desert Oasis EOY (every other year) ownership earlier this year with first use in 2009.  My Maintenance Fees are listed as $293.02, which is $586.04 over two years.  This amount is $40 more than the annual  MF as listed by grgs.  Is this standard for EOY ownerships?
> 
> Also, even though I am a resale purchaser, my current year charges show the $109 membership fee as part of my total due.  Also, my onwership details show the Starpoint and Staroption values.  Is this true of all ownerships, whether eligible for SVN or not?
> 
> ...


You are not paying for SVN membership.  Starwood charges extra $20 for EOY unit per year.


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## calgarygary (Dec 15, 2007)

*Vistana Villages (Bella) 2 bdr. - 940.29*

Maintenance Fee(s)    $ 725.86  
Tax                          $ 105.43        
Membership Fee          $ 109.00  

Total                         $940.29


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## grgs (Dec 15, 2007)

TimC said:


> Also, even though I am a resale purchaser, my current year charges show the $109 membership fee as part of my total due.  Also, my onwership details show the Starpoint and Staroption values.  Is this true of all ownerships, whether eligible for SVN or not?
> 
> I'm looking for advice - should I pay the membership fee and assume that I will be allowed to participate in starpoints and staroptions?  Should I ask whether I am eligible?  Anything else I should know?
> 
> Thanks



I'm in the same situation.  I recently closed on both a Sheraton Desert Oasis unit.  The SDO unit does list StarOptions/Starpoints on mystarcentral.  However, I do not believe I can book a reservation with StarOptions or convert my week to Starpoints  Even if I was somehow able to make a StarOptions reservation, Starwood would very likely cancel it once they figure out that it's a resale unit.  You do not have to pay the $109 membership fee.  You should just deduct this from your bill.  However, you call Starwood to confirm this.

Glorian


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## TimC (Dec 15, 2007)

Even if Starwood allowed me to be in the SVN program, it doesn't seem to make economic sense.  With an EOY ownership, I would be paying $109 per year for 44000 StarOption points or 24000 StarPoints every other year.  218 + 586 (MF) + 99 (conversion) = $900 for 24000 StarPoints.  Would there be any sense in trying to join SVN?


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## LisaRex (Dec 15, 2007)

TimC said:


> Even if Starwood allowed me to be in the SVN program, it doesn't seem to make economic sense.  With an EOY ownership, I would be paying $109 per year for 44000 StarOption points or 24000 StarPoints every other year.  218 + 586 (MF) + 99 (conversion) = $900 for 24000 StarPoints.  Would there be any sense in trying to join SVN?



FYI, voluntary resale owners aren't supposed to be allowed to trade/join SVN -- that's the key difference between mandatory and voluntary resorts.  However, neither voluntary nor mandatory resale owners are supposed to be able to convert to StarPoints.  

Regardless, if you can't or won't do a lot of trading within SVN, the fee is simply a money maker for Starwood.


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## myip (Dec 15, 2007)

TimC said:


> Even if Starwood allowed me to be in the SVN program, it doesn't seem to make economic sense.  With an EOY ownership, I would be paying $109 per year for 44000 StarOption points or 24000 StarPoints every other year.  218 + 586 (MF) + 99 (conversion) = $900 for 24000 StarPoints.  Would there be any sense in trying to join SVN?


Not worth it.  44000 Staroption doesn't go too far within SVN.


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## TimC (Dec 15, 2007)

LisaRex said:


> FYI, voluntary resale owners aren't supposed to be allowed to trade/join SVN -- that's the key difference between mandatory and voluntary resorts.  However, neither voluntary nor mandatory resale owners are supposed to be able to convert to StarPoints.



This quote from seenett seems to indicate that they occassionally make exceptions to that rule: 

"On occasion, SVO will offer SVN membership to the current owners of these weeks in order to get more weeks from that resort to be available within SVN."

Does anyone have futher information about these exceptions?


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## DeniseM (Dec 15, 2007)

TimC said:


> This quote from seenett seems to indicate that they occassionally make exceptions to that rule:
> 
> "On occasion, SVO will offer SVN membership to the current owners of these weeks in order to get more weeks from that resort to be available within SVN."
> 
> Does anyone have futher information about these exceptions?



A number of Tuggers that own at voluntary resorts have tried, and so far, no one that I know of has been successful.  (I tried at SDO, myself.)  

If you are willing to buy a 2nd week from the developer, it is possible to requalify a voluntary week to a mandatory week that way, but the cost far outweighs the benefits, IMNSHO.  

If you want a mandatory week, it would be far more cost effective to buy a 2nd week resale, at a  mandatory resort, rather than buying another week from the developer.


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## DavidnRobin (Dec 18, 2007)

I copied this from another thread I started before I saw this thread.

WKV (Kierland) MFs/Taxes for 2008 have just been posted.
$643.44 MF (for a 1Bd Premium unit)
$30.97 Taxes

The MFs went up by 7.824% for this unit. The taxes dropped by $1.63.

WKORV and WSJ are not yet listed.


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## Pedro (Dec 20, 2007)

*Lakeside Terrace MF $ 771.40*

Just saw my bill for Lakeside Terrace's MF. If you calculate the MF cost ($771.40) per the corresponding staroption value (129,600), it is one of the best deals around.

Current Year Charges








Maintenance Fee(s)
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 $ 771.40





Tax - If Applicable $ 0.00
Membership Fee - If Applicable $ 0.00
Other* $ 0.00
Interest $ 0.00
Late Fees $ 0.00


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## Pedro (Dec 20, 2007)

*WKORV (OV) MFs: $ 1599.29*

The MFs for WKORV are now posted and due on January 21st.  For a 2-br OV unit, I was billed the following:

Current Year Charges








Maintenance Fee(s)
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 $ 1,599.29





Tax - If Applicable $ 0.00
Membership Fee - If Applicable $ 0.00
Other* $ 0.00
Interest $ 0.00
Late Fees $ 0.00

My SVN membership fee was billed to one of my WMH units, so it shows as zero for WKORV.


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## gcole (Dec 20, 2007)

RLG said:


> Wow.
> 
> I had no idea that there was such a large difference between the maintenance of the regular 2 bedroom and the 2 bedroom lockoffs at SBP.
> 
> 25% higher maintenance seems like a big premium for the lockoff.



Remeber that a lockoff is 2 units and can be traded as such. I often get 2 bedroom trades with 1/2 of my lockoff. A 2 bedroom can only be traded as a single unit.


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## RLG (Dec 20, 2007)

*Sheraton Mountain Vista Huge Maintenance Increase*

Sheraton Mountain Vista maintenance fees finally up on MyStarcentral. 

2 bedroom lockoff went from 847.35 to 1050.17.  (All numbers include taxes but exclude ARDA and SVN fees.)

The fees excluding taxes are 976.34 for 2008 versus 765.85 for 2007.  That represents a *27% increase*.


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## grgs (Dec 20, 2007)

RLG said:


> Sheraton Mountain Vista maintenance fees finally up on MyStarcentral.
> 
> 2 bedroom lockoff went from 847.35 to 1050.17.  (All numbers include taxes but exclude ARDA and SVN fees.)
> 
> The fees excluding taxes are 976.34 for 2008 versus 765.85 for 2007.  That represents a *27% increase*.



Ouch!  Did they give any reason?

Glorian


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## DavidnRobin (Dec 21, 2007)

Pedro said:


> The MFs for WKORV are now posted and due on January 21st.  For a 2-br OV unit, I was billed the following:
> 
> Current Year Charges
> 
> ...



What was the MF (w/o SVN fee and ARDA) for the 2Bd LO Premium layout in2007?  I was curious as the %increase.

btw, the MFs are based on unit layout (size) and not the view type.


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## Pedro (Dec 21, 2007)

DavidnRobin said:


> What was the MF (w/o SVN fee and ARDA) for the 2Bd LO Premium layout in2007? I was curious as the %increase.
> .


Here are the MF for WKORV 2BR LO Premium:
2006     $ 1,315.84
2007     $ 1,418.27  (7.8% increase)
2008     $ 1,599.29  (12.7% increase)


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## DavidnRobin (Dec 22, 2007)

Here are the MFs (w/o SVN fee and ARDA) for WKORV 2Bd LO Deluxe for the last 4 years:

2005	$1623.77
2006	$1813.16 (11.7%)
2007	$1954.27 (7.8%)
2008	$2203.79 (12.8%)

That is ~36% over 3 years! Yikes!  Have costs really increased this much???!!!

Maybe it is time to get some Tuggers on HOA boards for accountability... perhaps we could start by getting Owners to come to this forum by starting a pyramid campaign were Tuggers reached out to other Owners and have them reach out to others, etc. every resort visit?  Has this ever been discussed?


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## j4sharks (Dec 23, 2007)

Yikes.  So much for TS being any sort of hedge against inflation rate of hotel room prices.  We just flew home this morning from our glorious first week ever at WKORV, and we loved it.  But the MF inflation rate is a disturbing trend.  I have a feeling Starwood could not care less how popular the MF increases are with existing owners.


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## DavidnRobin (Dec 26, 2007)

*MFs for WKORV (2008)*

MFs from the WKORV 2008 Annual Billing Newsletter:

1 Bd: $1,349.36
2 Bd LO Prem: $1,599.31
2 Bd LO Dlx: $2,203.79

The newsletter states the increase as 12.3%, but by my math has it as 12.8% (what's 0.5% between friends...) - perhaps they will need to upgrade their abacus for 2009?


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## Denise L (Dec 27, 2007)

*MFs, ouch!*

WKORV 2BD OV EOY:  $ 933.18
WKORV 2BD OV EOY:  $ 854.02

Total:           $1787.20

The breakdown for each interval is:

Master Association Assessment          54.12
Apartment Ownership Assessment     189.97
Vacation Ownership Assessment       575.56
SVN fee                                       113.53 (and 34.38 for the second)

I remember when most of us could rent our studio out and pay for the MFs.  Those days are gone  !

I wish all the MFs weren't due in January. It's painful.


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## DeniseM (Dec 27, 2007)

I noticed on mystarcentral.com that you can make monthly MF payments if you want to.  That would be a good way to spread out the cost without incurring any credit card interest.  So my 2 bdm. would be around $150 a mo. and you could still use the AMEX for double points.


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## Pedro (Dec 27, 2007)

DeniseM said:


> I noticed on mystarcentral.com that you can make monthly MF payments if you want to. That would be a good way to spread out the cost without incurring any credit card interest. So my 2 bdm. would be around $150 a mo. and you could still use the AMEX for double points.


Denise,

I searched mystarcentral.com and couldn't find the reference to the monthly MF payments.  Could you tell me where you found it?  Thanks.


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## Denise L (Dec 27, 2007)

DeniseM said:


> I noticed on mystarcentral.com that you can make monthly MF payments if you want to.  That would be a good way to spread out the cost without incurring any credit card interest.  So my 2 bdm. would be around $150 a mo. and you could still use the AMEX for double points.



Did we get double points last year for using the AMEX for MFs? Does it say somewhere that this is true? I can't remember from last year, but almost 3600 Starpoints sounds better than 1800 Mileage Plus points.


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## Pedro (Dec 27, 2007)

Denise L said:


> Did we get double points last year for using the AMEX for MFs? Does it say somewhere that this is true? I can't remember from last year, but almost 3600 Starpoints sounds better than 1800 Mileage Plus points.


I got double starpoints for using AMEX to pay my MFs this year, and I believe I also got them last year.


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## DeniseM (Dec 27, 2007)

Pedro said:


> Denise,
> 
> I searched mystarcentral.com and couldn't find the reference to the monthly MF payments.  Could you tell me where you found it?  Thanks.



Actually I shouldn't have said "monthly payments," as it appears that you can make advance payments in any amount/frequency that you want.  If you go clear to the final payment page that shows the breakdown of your fees, it says this at the bottom of the page:

*Ways To Pay Your Fees
For your convenience, you may make additional payments to build a credit balance that will be applied to next year's assessment. Payments will be reflected in the Maintenance Fee Detail section above.*


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## Sir Newf (Dec 27, 2007)

Westin Kierland- 1 Bedroom Platnium, Deluxe: 
 Maint fee $401.14  
 Tax - If Applicable    $ 22.63  
 Membership Fee - If Applicable    $ 109.00   
 2008 Year Charges    $ 535.77

 2007 Charges were $494.95, looks like 8% increase for 2008.
I am very happy with my smaller unit and find the fees very managable, but really feel bad for the huge increases and fees that others are facing, it's not good for SVN as a whole.


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## GrayFal (Dec 31, 2007)

*Sheraton PGA & Broadway Plantation "Shotgun"*

Sheraton PGA Vacation Resort 2BR L/O
operating assess  710.51
replace reserve 234.57
Real Estate tax 218.17
Total = $1,163.25

Sheraton Broadway Plantation 1BR 'shotgun'
operating assess 329.51
replacement reserve 56.03
Total = $ 385.54


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## MON2REY (Jan 7, 2008)

*MF for WKORV-N?*

Has anyone received his bill for the MFs at WKORV-N yet?  I don't necessarily want to pay them but then again I want to make sure nothing has gotten screwed up with my account.  Thanks.


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## DeniseM (Jan 7, 2008)

Have you checked www.mystarcentral.com?  It should be listed there under your Acct. Info.


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## MON2REY (Jan 7, 2008)

Thanks Denise.  I have been checking there and it lists all zeros and then a "projected amount for next year" of $1,537.86.

Jim


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## LisaRex (Jan 7, 2008)

If you purchased in '07, your '08 MF fees were pre-paid at the time of purchase.  I purchased resale and the prior owner paid them, so I have nothing due at this time.


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## spuppy (Jan 7, 2008)

I've already used one week at WKORV-N, and SVO has still yet to send a bill for MF.  There is also no due-date on the MF on mystarcentral.

I sent an online message using mystarcentral to SVO about a month back, and the response was that the bills for MF at WKORV-N had not gone out yet.

I wouldn't be surprised if receive bills for 2007 and 2008 MF at the same time.


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## zeke013 (Jan 7, 2008)

LisaRex said:


> If you purchased in '07, your '08 MF fees were pre-paid at the time of purchase.  I purchased resale and the prior owner paid them, so I have nothing due at this time.



Wow - really?  I didn't go through my paperwork yet, but that would sure surprise me . . . 

I hope it's true!


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## LisaRex (Jan 7, 2008)

Here's what DeniseM had to say a few weeks ago when I inquired:

http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showpost.php?p=441214&postcount=7


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## wannagotoo (Jan 8, 2008)

I talked to them about 10 days ago. The bills had not gone out yet. Last year's bills were not sent because the "property had not been recorded." We were supposed to receive the bill for '07, December '07 and the bill for '08, January '08 but so far I have not received anything.


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## djp (Jan 8, 2008)

[*QUOTE=RLG;438074]Sheraton Mountain Vista maintenance fees finally up on MyStarcentral. 

2 bedroom lockoff went from 847.35 to 1050.17.  (All numbers include taxes but exclude ARDA and SVN fees.)

The fees excluding taxes are 976.34 for 2008 versus 765.85 for 2007.  That represents a 27% increase.[/QUOTE]*


Has anyone heard any reasonable explation for this? I just called SVN association management, and the rep had no good explanation.....stating that %20 increases are the average.....when she said this I didnt know whether to laugh out loud or scream! I restrained myself and said, surely you  realize that over a %25 increase is kinda high. She replied, "that is why I dont own a timeshare." I asked her if anyone there could give an explanation, and she offered to have her supervisor call me.....so I am still waiting.


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## zeke013 (Jan 8, 2008)

LisaRex said:


> If you purchased in '07, your '08 MF fees were pre-paid at the time of purchase.  I purchased resale and the prior owner paid them, so I have nothing due at this time.



I purchased from the developer - not resale.  And nowhere in my closing docs does it say that my 2008 MF are paid off.  Might the seller have to pay the following year's MFs if they sell the timeshare - to assure fee continuity to Starwood?  

I think we'll be getting a bill shortly . . .


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## sharktzu (Jan 10, 2008)

I would really like to know what is behind this big increases in MF every year. I t seems far out of line with other prices. Is anyone on the board of a SVN property? I'd to hear an explaination. Continually rising MF like that will render these properies unsaleable pretty darn fast if they continue.


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## duke (Jan 10, 2008)

*WPORV - Westin Princeville Kauai - 2008 Maint Fees?*

Has anyone received a statement or invoice for 2008 maint fees that has 2008 usage?


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## formerhater (Jan 10, 2008)

duke said:


> Has anyone received a statement or invoice for 2008 maint fees that has 2008 usage?



No.  I e-mailed them a week or so ago to ask what was up.  They said the budget had not been finalized by the Board and bills wouldn't go out until that was done.  Of course, they offered no timeline for either.  I guess I'll have to start stashing money away in case I get hit with two years worth of MFs in a year.


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## duke (Jan 10, 2008)

formerhater said:


> No.  I e-mailed them a week or so ago to ask what was up.  They said the budget had not been finalized by the Board and bills wouldn't go out until that was done.  Of course, they offered no timeline for either.  I guess I'll have to start stashing money away in case I get hit with two years worth of MFs in a year.



Interesting....I thought that you had to pay maint fees before you could make reservations or use for that year.  I have a reservation for 2008.


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## DavidnRobin (Jan 10, 2008)

duke said:


> Interesting....I thought that you had to pay maint fees before you could make reservations or use for that year.  I have a reservation for 2008.



Nope, if this were the case then how would people that own early in a year (e.g. Plat season at WKV, or a fixed week at WSJ) reserve for 2009 when the MFs haven't even been billed for 2008?


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## DeniseM (Jan 10, 2008)

OK, Duke...I have to ask you - How have you been making your reservations at 12 - 8 mos. out????


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## formerhater (Jan 11, 2008)

duke said:


> Interesting....I thought that you had to pay maint fees before you could make reservations or use for that year.  I have a reservation for 2008.



You might have that confused with borrowing SOs from next year.  Doing so requires paying all MFs for that year.


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## duke (Jan 13, 2008)

DeniseM said:


> OK, Duke...I have to ask you - How have you been making your reservations at 12 - 8 mos. out????




I made my reservation for Princeville Kauai at 12 months for month of May 2008.


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## DeniseM (Jan 13, 2008)

Hi Duke   - My question was referring to this post - 


duke said:


> Interesting....I thought that you had to pay maint fees before you could make reservations or use for that year.  I have a reservation for 2008.


When you made your May Resv. (in May of 2007) did you prepay the MF for 2008?


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## DavidnRobin (Jan 13, 2008)

DeniseM said:


> I was referring to this post - when you made your May Resv., 12 mos. out, did you prepay the MF for 2008?



Yes - I thought the same thing - sort of confusing... how much are the WPORV MFs that you paid?  I have yet to see a final value of MFs (incl resort fee) for WPORV.  The MF section for WPORV on MSC is still 'under-construction'.

Looks like you will be the first Tugger to visit WPORV - I can't wait for your experience.


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## duke (Jan 14, 2008)

DavidnRobin said:


> Yes - I thought the same thing - sort of confusing... how much are the WPORV MFs that you paid?  I have yet to see a final value of MFs (incl resort fee) for WPORV.  The MF section for WPORV on MSC is still 'under-construction'.
> 
> Looks like you will be the first Tugger to visit WPORV - I can't wait for your experience.



No, I have not yet paid any MF's......but, I was wondering what the fees would be.

I am looking forward to visiting WPORV in May and then to WKORV the week after.
Of course, I will update you on the experience.


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## wannagotoo (Jan 14, 2008)

Just received the bill today for WKORV-N


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## DavidnRobin (Jan 14, 2008)

wannagotoo said:


> Just received the bill today for WKORV-N




What is the MF (w/o SVN and ARDA)?


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## Denise L (Jan 14, 2008)

wannagotoo said:


> Just received the bill today for WKORV-N



Just curious as to when it says it is due. Ours for WKORV (the original flavor) is due on January 21.


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## wannagotoo (Jan 14, 2008)

For WKORV-N:
Under "description" it says
2007 Master Association Assessment  86.42
2007 Condo Common Assessment      440.26
2007 Vacation Ownership Assessment  1011.18

I am a bit concerned because we were supposed to be billed for 2 units for 2007 and 4 units for 2008. But we received invoices for 4 units for 2007. I hope we don't get another set of 4 invoices for the 2008 fees.


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## wannagotoo (Jan 14, 2008)

Due February 29


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## bugzapper (Jan 15, 2008)

*Where's the accountability?*



RLG said:


> Sheraton Mountain Vista maintenance fees finally up on MyStarcentral.
> 
> 2 bedroom lockoff went from 847.35 to 1050.17.  (All numbers include taxes but exclude ARDA and SVN fees.)
> 
> The fees excluding taxes are 976.34 for 2008 versus 765.85 for 2007.  That represents a *27% increase*.



Just curious. With any Starwood property, how are the MFs determined? Are they set by an HOA that is accountable to owners? Or does Starwood management simply tell the HOA what the costs are going to be and let the HOA deal with it? Also, do you receive an annual budget that has a break down of expenditures?

I'm wondering because SMV is a property that I had considered as a candidate for eventual ownership--in part because the MFs seemed reasonable for a one bedroom when locked-off. With the MF increase, I'm not so sure. 

Lack of accountability is a feature that would really bother me...

Also, how long does it usually take for TS resellers to adjust their ads for the new MFs?

-- Keith


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## MON2REY (Jan 16, 2008)

I just got off the phone with Star Central.  I called about another subject but while on the line I asked about the 2008 MFs at WKORV-N.  They said they apologize for the lateness and that the bills should be out in another month.  I asked them if the amount had been calculated yet and they said the current estimate is $1,766.58.  This is about $200 more than the estimate that has been listed on MYSTARCENTRAL for quite some time.


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## NED (Jan 16, 2008)

We were at VV in Nov. and attended a board meeting. VV has a surplus that they voted to apply to reduce 2009 MF. That's why mystarcentral shows next years MF to be less than 2008. We'll have to see how that plays out next year when they bill the actuals.


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## 3DH (Jan 16, 2008)

djp said:


> RLG said:
> 
> 
> > Sheraton Mountain Vista maintenance fees finally up on MyStarcentral.
> ...


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## DavidnRobin (Jan 16, 2008)

bugzapper said:


> Just curious. With any Starwood property, how are the MFs determined? Are they set by an HOA that is accountable to owners? Or does Starwood management simply tell the HOA what the costs are going to be and let the HOA deal with it? Also, do you receive an annual budget that has a break down of expenditures?
> 
> I'm wondering because SMV is a property that I had considered as a candidate for eventual ownership--in part because the MFs seemed reasonable for a one bedroom when locked-off. With the MF increase, I'm not so sure.
> 
> ...



Keith -

I would not relay on what a reseller claims what the MFs are - they often have wrong MFs.  The best way is to actually ask/watch here about what the MFs actually were.

They are generally 3 sub-components of assessments to SVO MFs in increasing amounts Master Association, Condo Common, and Vacation Ownership - with the VOA being the most (by far).  There is a budget with breakdown sent out yearly.

The accountability is where the real issue lies (IMO) - a lot of threads here have some attribute that goes to this issue (such as the SVO rental program, WSJ unit/resort issues, etc. ).  MFs seem to increase ~8-10% per year - this is out-of-control.  No way inflationary 'costs' have increase an average of 8-10% year after year (that adds up fast!).  Based on what - their say-so?  I say this because much of this is not transparent at all - and in many ways is an example of the fox watching the hen house.

IMO - this is the biggest issue facing TSers - and will hopefully eventually create SVO HOAs that finally get representatives of true Owners - and not pawns of the SVO.  The only way this will occur is when Owners get more involved - and this will only happen when they get pissed off enough and band together.  With a large SVO Owners group (both globally and resort-specific)- this is extremely difficult.

For a large resort like WKORV - there are about 280 units - times 52 weeks - that is alot of VOIs.  The challege is overwhelming for owners to make  substainial changes.

Do most SVO Owners even know who represents them?  No.
Do SVO Owners have a easy way of contacting other SVO Owners? No.
Do most SVO Owners care enough (or have the time) to find out about how to even initiate change? No.

An owner writes to SVO and gets a computer generated (or corporate-speak)response saying they care - yes, they care... they care about the EPS (bottom-line) for Starwood first and foremost (as with all corporations - except the one I work for, of course...).

I would postulate that most SVO are apathetic because they just want their VOI without the hassle - and why they bought their TS from SVO in the first place.


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## DeniseM (Jan 16, 2008)

Keith - The Starwood HOA's are completely dominated by Starwood.  Most of the member's of the boards are Starwood EMPLOYEES!   Starwood does the minimal amount of notification about HOA meetings and members are not welcome or encouraged to attend HOA meetings.


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## wannagotoo (Jan 17, 2008)

Mon2Rey, I called the number that was on the statement and asked the fellow about the billing we received for the fees at WKORV-N. He said that eventhough the statement said 2007, that pays the fees for this year. We will not receive another statement until the end of 2008. This is very different than what you were told. Should we try for a third call and see if we can break the tie?


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## LisaRex (Jan 17, 2008)

I called and was also told that the MFs invoices were going to be sent the first week of February.  That's an entire month of interest that SVN has lost out on because of their incompetence.  I'm sure they'll pass along the loss to us owners next year. 

The reason for my call to SVN was to, once again, confirm that the villa listed on my deed is OF.  The agent confirmed this. I asked for this in writing and she said she couldn't do that but assured me that it was listed as OF in her files and therefore all was good.  I questioned why, given that view is so important at WKORV, there is no indication anywhere as to what view I paid for. She had no answer.  I then asked for her to fax me a property map which indicated the building numbers. She said they didn't have anything like that.  

When I asked why I hadn't received my confirmation of my July '08 rental, she discovered that the e-mail address was the previous owner's e-mail.  

I swear, a high school student could create a better system than SVN.


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## MON2REY (Jan 17, 2008)

Wannagoto,
I purchased our unit from the developer in '06 with first use in '08.  Did you do the same or did you get yours resale or right-to-use in '07?  If so, possibly that exlains the difference.  Just a thought.
Jim


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## wannagotoo (Jan 17, 2008)

MON2REY, We purchased in 05, with use of 2 units in 07 and all 4 units in 08. Thanks for your information, I will call them again because it seems that my information is not correct.

Today's call after alot of background information given:
Yes, the bills were for last year but we have it in our system that you don't have to pay for two of the units. "Could I get a statement that indicates I don't owe for two units?" No, it's in our system. "If it were in your system that I don't owe, why did I get a statement?" Because you recently upgraded two units and they weren't recorded early enough so that the information was part of the billing.  "They were upgraded in March of last year and I received no confirmation could you please send one?" No, we have it in our system. "But I don't have it in my system, could I have a hard copy please or could I have access to your system that has that information because mystarcentral doesn't have the correct information?" That is in our system and we can't send out information until it has been recorded.

Also, her idea of the statements for '08 is that they should be sent in about 2 months and the amount will be around $1,653.05.

There is never a consistent response.  If you talk to one representative you get one answer, another representative, another answer. I am still not sure how units are assigned, if I can call and add a request without changing the time stamp, or if we will retain any of the benefits that caused us to buy 4 units in the first place.


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## myip (Jan 17, 2008)

I have the same problem with upgrade.   I have no ideas as how much I own.  In mystarcentral.com, I own them money. When I called, Starwood says I have a credit on my account.  I am going to call them again in March.  Hopefully, by then, my bill is all straighten out.


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## wannagotoo (Jan 17, 2008)

myip, you are the eternal optimist! Let me guess, your credit is "in their system?" I don't understand why their system doesn't have a "print" or "send" command.


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## myip (Jan 17, 2008)

wannagotoo said:


> myip, you are the eternal optimist! Let me guess, your credit is "in their system?" I don't understand why their system doesn't have a "print" or "send" command.


My credit is in their system.  Don't know where it come from...


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## Denise L (Jan 17, 2008)

Regarding the due date for WKORV maintenance fees, if it is due on January 21, can I pay it on my AMEX on January 21 online, or will that not get posted because it is a holiday?

I often wonder this about my other bills sometimes, so I usually pay them a couple of days early if the due date falls on the weekend or a holiday. However, in this case I owe $1787.20, so I wouldn't mind waiting until the last moment to pay  .


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## DavidnRobin (Jan 18, 2008)

Denise L said:


> Regarding the due date for WKORV maintenance fees, if it is due on January 21, can I pay it on my AMEX on January 21 online, or will that not get posted because it is a holiday?
> 
> I often wonder this about my other bills sometimes, so I usually pay them a couple of days early if the due date falls on the weekend or a holiday. However, in this case I owe $1787.20, so I wouldn't mind waiting until the last moment to pay  .



Like the bill says - due on Jan 21 - therefore, pay with your SPG AMEX on that day.  This is what I plan to do - especially since my AMEX's billing cycle is on the 19th.


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## Carolyn (Jan 18, 2008)

*So what's next??  WSJ*

We recently closed on a 1BR WSJ resale.  I haven't received a bill for the mf yet.  When can I expect that?  We are already II members (until 2015) but I guess I still have to pay some mandatory fee to II every year because I now own WSJ??  Should I contact II and tell them of our purchase so it can be included online with our other resorts? Or will Starwood do this?  I just don't want a second II account opened in our name even though I feel we are paying twice for the same membership.  Thanks.

Carolyn


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## DeniseM (Jan 18, 2008)

My understanding is that you will be required to have a separate Starwood Acct. for your WSJ week and your II membership fees are included in your Starwood MF.  You might want to look at the Starwood & II Article in the Owner's Resources sticky at the top of the page.

I'm going to add your post to the MF thread which has more info. about WSJ MF's.


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## Denise L (Jan 19, 2008)

DavidnRobin said:


> Like the bill says - due on Jan 21 - therefore, pay with your SPG AMEX on that day.  This is what I plan to do - especially since my AMEX's billing cycle is on the 19th.



Thanks. I just paid mine. I hope the double points post. My closing date is the 28th, so it won't matter if I wait, it will still be due in February. Oh well.  It appears to use today's date as the posting date.

It is great to pay my dues two months before our trip  .  Usually we don't go to Maui until November or December, and then it seems like a lot of money in January.  Now it seems like a "bargain" compared with renting a two-bedroom  .  I must just be in a good mood (so far) this morning  !


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## DavidnRobin (Jan 20, 2008)

no WSJ MFs posted yet...


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## marcmuff (Jan 20, 2008)

Oops - Wrong thread!


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## pointsjunkie (Jan 22, 2008)

*harborside mf's 2008*

just got the budget for 2008 and thank goodness it did not go up too much. 1 br deluxe $1200.54 1 br prem 1287.44 and 2 br l/o 2323.53. it went up less than $100 from 2007.


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## mariawolf (Jan 22, 2008)

Yes it went up less than $100 but it seems to me last year we were told that it wouldn't go up at all for 2008 since it was such a huge increase in the 2007 amount! I know I got something to that effect either in writing or in a phone call!


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## pointsjunkie (Jan 22, 2008)

i don't remember getting any information about the mf'S NOT GOING UP IN 2008.


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## sharktzu (Jan 22, 2008)

All I know is that I feel very poor today after paying the MF for the year yesterday.


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## myip (Jan 22, 2008)

*Starwood has bad record keeping.*



myip said:


> My credit is in their system.  Don't know where it come from...



   Now they tell me I own them money.  It is unbelievable that I own them 2008 maintenance fees that I have already paid.  Pissed me.  I will have to call them tomorrow.


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## wannagotoo (Jan 23, 2008)

myip, This problem occurs when only they have access to "the system" and if you call and talk to 3 different people you get 3 different answers. I have requested a confirmation letter that MF's are not due on 2 of the 4 units because I am convinced that the next person I talk to will have a different idea of how much I owe.  They have problems generating letters from "the system." For a company as big as Starwood, I am very surprised that their accounting system is so limited.


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## abcmanzer (Jan 27, 2008)

*Notification of Maintenance Fees*

I have checked on-line at MyStarCentral.com and see that my MFs are paid in full, but it looks like it is referring to 2007, not 2008.  We are new resale owners at Harborside, and I don't want to screw up our first responsibility as new owners.  How/When will we be notified about the need to pay our MFs?


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## DeniseM (Jan 27, 2008)

Have you read the MF thread here?  Lots of info. there.  

I am going to move your post to that thread.


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## DavidnRobin (Jan 28, 2008)

While nothing on MSC related to WSJ MFs - a post came along listing the WSJ MFs for 2008.

http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showpost.php?p=459277&postcount=28

I hope this correct, because this is only a 1.8% increase for our 2Bd TH (although before I get too happy - I will wait for the final bill).

FOLLOW-UP: 
Got our WSJ notice - it looks as if it is going to be the MF and a Replacement Reserve Fee (lucky us) - which is $174 - and the brings it to a whopping increase of 15% - but then again, I would have been willing to this much or the couch (and offered...). I will follow-up in Westin St John thread.
http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?p=459419#post459419


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## lprstn (Jan 28, 2008)

*Sheraton Vistana ... Don't get me started...*

My taxes and assessments were $1236 this year for my 2-bed in the Fountains.  Boy was I a little miffed with this.  And next year my fees are $714.  I paid this year but am going to start paying $60 a month so that I am paid up early for next year and it doesn't hurt so much trying to come up with a large sum at one time.


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## MON2REY (Jan 30, 2008)

SVN just posted my 2008 MFs on mystarcentral.  They are $1,653.05 plus $113.53 (Membership Fee) plus an optional $5.00 for ARDA for a total of $1,771.58.  Due date is 03/04/08.  Just to clarify, the membership fee is for II, is that correct?


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## Denise L (Jan 30, 2008)

It is the SVN fee to be a member of the Starwood Vacation Network of resorts.


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## DavidnRobin (Jan 30, 2008)

It is for SVN, but II is included in that.


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## LauraS93 (Feb 23, 2008)

*WSJ 2008 Maintenance Fees?*

Did anyone receive their MF bill yet for 2008?

I have not.  But today, I did go to mystarcentral.com and paid for them with my new American Express SPG credit card. 

OUCH - these just keep going up year after year.  Will it every end?


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## DavidnRobin (Feb 23, 2008)

LauraS93 said:


> Did anyone receive their MF bill yet for 2008?
> 
> I have not.  But today, I did go to mystarcentral.com and paid for them with my new American Express SPG credit card.
> 
> OUCH - these just keep going up year after year.  Will it every end?



So you paid before they are due - they must love you...  

The WSJ MFs haven't been sent yet - the recent mailing lists the MFs but the board still needs to meet to approve.  I believe they are meeting next week.  Quite an interesting way to run a HOA - I say something is amiss.

I am not paying until the due date - which will likely be end of March.

The MFs pretty much stayed the same - they added an addional replacement fee. yes, I realize that it is the same outcome.


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## LauraS93 (Feb 23, 2008)

DavidnRobin said:


> So you paid before they are due - they must love you...
> 
> The WSJ MFs haven't been sent yet - the recent mailing lists the MFs but the board still needs to meet to approve.  I believe they are meeting next week.  Quite an interesting way to run a HOA - I say something is amiss.
> 
> ...




I thought it'd be a good idea to pay as I just secured renters and wanted everything in line.  My billing cycle with AXP just started so I won't actually have to pay until early April. :whoopie:


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## DavidnRobin (Feb 23, 2008)

did you pay the amount listed on MSC?
very glad to hear that the renting worked out.


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## capjak (Feb 27, 2008)

*Westin Mission Hills MF*

I noticed that the MF is 1400 and includes some items for assessments.  Will the MF go back down after assessment?


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## DavidnRobin (Feb 28, 2008)

Per MSC - It looks as if we finaly have a due date for WSJ MFs - 3/31/2008.
Now they just have to populate the Amount Owed field...


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## DavidnRobin (Mar 5, 2008)

MFs for WSJ VG (Hillside) have finally been sent (officially) - due 3/31/08

Studio: $912.65
1Bd: $1216.91
2Bd TH: $1521.17 *(a 15% increase over 2007)*
2Bd Prem: $1825.31
3Bd: $1825.43

This does not include SVN fee or ARDA.

It is unclear as to whether this 15% increase includes a Replacement Reserve increase to pay for a refurbish plan that is scheduled for 8/15-11/28/08.  It appeared that way in the first newsletter that was sent out in January as an item expense.  I will post more on the WSJ thread.

I am not paying our MFs until 3/31/08.


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## WINSLOW (Mar 21, 2008)

Hi, I was wondering about the M/F's at WSJ and Harborside.
On top of the M/F's above does WSJ have a seperate bill for taxes? or are taxes included with the M/F's?  I thought I read somewhere (can't remember where and can't find it now) that taxes were billed seperate and that they are high.  Are Harborside's taxes billed seperately too.  I'm just trying to find out what the actual yearly fees might be compared to each other and how fast they're going up.
Thanks for any help 
Crystal


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## DeniseM (Mar 21, 2008)

Here are a couple recent posts:



> MFs for WSJ VG (Hillside) have finally been sent (officially) - due 3/31/08
> 
> Studio: $912.65
> 1Bd: $1216.91
> ...





> harborside mf's 2008
> just got the budget for 2008 and thank goodness it did not go up too much. 1 br deluxe $1200.54 1 br prem 1287.44 and 2 br l/o 2323.53. it went up less than $100 from 2007.



*I am also going to move your post to that thread.*


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## DavidnRobin (Mar 21, 2008)

WINSLOW said:


> Hi, I was wondering about the M/F's at WSJ and Harborside.
> On top of the M/F's above does WSJ have a seperate bill for taxes? or are taxes included with the M/F's?  I thought I read somewhere (can't remember where and can't find it now) that taxes were billed seperate and that they are high.  Are Harborside's taxes billed seperately too.  I'm just trying to find out what the actual yearly fees might be compared to each other and how fast they're going up.
> Thanks for any help
> Crystal



For WSJ - the taxes are billed separately - the tax bill for 2006 (yes - 2006) have not been sent out yet. This Tax Bill comes from the USVI Gov't - gotta love island time.

There is an upcoming increase in TS taxes for the USVI - still being argued about.


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## GrayFal (Aug 16, 2008)

*Thanks Glorian!*




grgs said:


> This what I show in mystarcentral for 2008 (excludes the SVN fee):
> 
> Small one bedroom: $463.31
> 
> ...


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## James1975NY (Oct 8, 2008)

*Sheraton Vistana Villages - Key West - Large One Bedroom*

Does anyone know what the maintenance fees are for a large one bedroom in the Key West phase??


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## Joshadelic (Oct 8, 2008)

According to the pricing sheet that was emailed to me from Starwood - it's $860.  I'm not sure if that's inclusive of taxes and SVN fee or not.


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## DeniseM (Oct 8, 2008)

Those developer price lists are posted in Owner Resources, for future reference.


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