# Bluegreen Florida timeshares -- which are nicest?



## Cathyb (Feb 4, 2008)

Have opportunity to do a private trade with a Bluegreen owner and want to exchange in February 2009 to one of their Florida units near Sanibel.  Tuggers would you list your top three favorites and why.  We love the ocean and enjoyed the shelling at Sanibel last year.

Thanks in advance


----------



## rapmarks (Feb 5, 2008)

If you love the ocean, then I would try for solara surfside or Hammocks at Marathon Key.


----------



## Cathyb (Feb 5, 2008)

rapmarks - thank you


----------



## JLB (Feb 6, 2008)

Do you have the list handy?  I know a few, but not the entire list.


----------



## Cathyb (Feb 6, 2008)

jlb: Here are some:  Gulfstream, Mariner's Boathouse, Windward Passage Resort, Tropical Sand -- most I think are near Sanibel, Fla.  Any help is appreciated


----------



## JLB (Feb 6, 2008)

Kinda what I figured.

Over the years of daily searching this area, there are resorts that are most likely to be available during primetime.  I was just coming back to go to my SW FL in January thread and post those resorts, the ones most likely to be available.

Your list almost does that for me.   

I don't know Gulfstream, but, so far, IMHO, you can do better.  I'll go to Bluegreen and see what else they have.



Cathyb said:


> jlb: Here are some:  Gulfstream, Mariner's Boathouse, Windward Passage Resort, Tropical Sand -- most I think are near Sanibel, Fla.  Any help is appreciated


----------



## JLB (Feb 6, 2008)

In the very limited list of Bluegreen Associate resorts in SW FL, Surfrider Beach Club on Sanibel would be the best bet.

We have never been to it, but know the others.  I know comments like mine distress some owners, but there is something about each on the list that make it a lesser resort, lesser, let's say, than the HGVC resorts of  FL.  But, then, owners know that.

FWIW, we have grown accustomed to, and are comfortable with, many of lesser SW FL resorts.


----------



## Sea Six (Feb 6, 2008)

JLB said:


> I know comments like mine distress some owners



But JLB, we need to know more about the stinky lagoon :rofl:


----------



## JLB (Feb 6, 2008)

I'm sure Theo will be along shortly to fill us in.   

It really is a shame, though, that with the 17 miles, or whatever it is, of beautiful, continuous beach on Estero Island, and the miles and miles and miles of perfect powder-sugar beach we were just at up at Siesta Key, and the miles and miles and miles of beautiful beach at Bonita Beach, Vanderbilt Beach, Naples, and Marco Island, plus all the beautiful beach on Sanibel and Captiva, two of the resorts listed are exactly at that point, one on the_ lagoon_ side and one across the road.

Go figure.   

But . . . I am not the one who brought it up, nor created the lagoon.   

Here it comes, perhaps since Cathy B is from Carlsbad, CA, she would not mind staying at Lagoon-Uh Beach.  





Sea Six said:


> But JLB, we need to know more about the stinky lagoon :rofl:


----------



## rapmarks (Feb 6, 2008)

the quality of the resorts on the SW Florida side and also some in Daytona and that area is why I advised her to look at solara surfside or Hammocks at Marathon.  If she is doing a trade with an owner, she might as well go for the best.  only similar quality would be the Fountains in Orlando, but Orlando is an easy trade.


----------



## theo (Feb 6, 2008)

*Nope...*



JLB said:


> I'm sure Theo will be along shortly to fill us in.



Au contraire; Theo is *not* wading back into the lagoon issue.  

However, I'm soon heading to FMB for a few weeks. One day, after some early a.m. fishing, I may thoroughly scope out the extent of (and changes since last year to) the dreaded lagoon waters. I've heard some rumors that the Loch Ness monster now winters at FMB, utilizing the favorable exchange rate of the Euro toward airfare and may now, even as I type, be residing in the lagoon waters at the SE end of FMB. At the very least, it's _got_ to be warmer than the water in Scotland. 

P.S. Re: the "list", fwiw, Mariner's Boathouse is a "Friday to Friday" facility. To the best of my (admittedly not unlimited) knowledge, Mariner's may well be the only "Friday to Friday" facility on all of FMB. This is only of relevance or interest  if / when trying to tie two consecutive weeks together, since  most all other places on FMB are "Saturday to Saturday".


----------



## Cathyb (Feb 7, 2008)

jlb: We actually stayed at Surfrider last year -- great location, quaint one bedroom -- but loved Sanibel!  However if my Bluegreen private trader cannot get me Surfrider, I was getting my ducks in a row to have her try some others.  Thanks for any info -- every little bit helps


----------



## Cathyb (Feb 7, 2008)

uh-oh -- what can I read between the lines   What is missing from those Bluegreen affiliates mentioned in my earlier email?  We don't mind the 'quaint' places if the ocean is right there and there are lots of things to see in town.  I know there are Hiltons; but that is ok.  If I have my DH, who needs all that fancy stuff


----------



## JLB (Feb 7, 2008)

Wow!!!  A Miracle Worker!!!

It has probably been 15 years since we stayed at Mariners Boathouse, a comp week from II for a problem we encountered at Streamside at Vail (that accounts for two of our 5 or 6 II weeks  ), and the luhgoon is still there, still an issue, and you are expecting it to go away in a year!!!  It seems obvious that that is not God's plan, but let us know.

Here is the wording from the 2002 II Wish Book, for Mariners Boathouse, first sentence:

_"Located directly on a lagoon beach on Estero Island. . . Mariners' Boathouse features nautically themed units with a floor plan that results in each unit resembling a ship's cabin. . . "_

Six degrees of separation . . . another couple stayed with us, somewhat awkwardly, in that strange, quirky nautical-quarters of a unit at MB, all those years ago.  They are now our best friends (despite timesharing with us every year), and the _she_ of that couple is here right now, overnighting last night, and she and DW are business partners. 



theo said:


> One day, after some early a.m. fishing, I may thoroughly scope out the extent of (and changes since last year to) the dreaded lagoon waters.


----------



## theo (Feb 7, 2008)

*Not what I said or meant...*



JLB said:


> Wow!!!  A Miracle Worker!!! .... the luhgoon is still there, still an issue, and you are expecting it to go away in a year!!!  It seems obvious that that is not God's plan, but let us know.



Whoa, there! I'm certainly not expecting the lagoon to "go away" anytime before the next major hurricance (and perhaps not even then)..... 

By mentioning my post-fishing plans to check out current lagoon extent and status during this years' visit, I certainly did not intend to imply that I either expect it to have disappeared nor to do so now at my request. I just want to see if it has grown, shrunk, silted up, breached, etc. The last "Google Earth" satellite shot posted did not seem too current. The dreaded lagoon is not much of an issue or item of interest to me personally, but I certainly understand and fully appreciate that beachgoers want to beach-go, not lagoon-traverse. To each his/her own.


----------



## theo (Feb 7, 2008)

Cathyb said:


> uh-oh -- what can I read between the lines   What is missing from those Bluegreen affiliates mentioned in my earlier email?



As you've undoubtedly gleaned here already, direct Gulf beach access is what is most obviously missing (see dreaded lagoon discussions) in the case of Mariner's Boathouse and/or Tropical Sands on Fort Myers Beach. In the latter instance the facility is also completely across the street from the lagoon / Gulf, with little or no direct view of either one. While located on the Gulf side of Estero Blvd., the "ship" interior decor / theme at Mariner's is, depending on your tastes and preferences, either "cute" or a bit disconcerting (count me as voting for the latter, personally). 

The Tropical Sands units are all identical, 2BR, and about 1300 square feet, all with screened porches, but it's certainly an older facility (built around 1983) and now, 25 years later, showing its age a bit (aren't we all?). 

Windward Passage is located at the opposite (and much busier) end of Estero Island, on the Gulf side of Estero Blvd., with no dreaded lagoon impeding beach access. The facility itself, however, is unspectacular --- others might instead say *mediocre.*


----------



## Sea Six (Feb 7, 2008)

Thanks for saying that Theo.  I would hate to think anyone would fly all the way out from California expecting to be on the beach and end up at Tropical Sands or the Boathouse.  Not to mention the Boathouse is furnished so cutely only because there is no floor space, just like on a boat.


----------



## JLB (Feb 7, 2008)

To continue the saga, we had dinner tonight with the couple that first timeshared with us in the early 90's and at Mariner's Boathouse.  DW and I remember it well, the impression being permanently etched.

Strange, the husband of the other couple, my golfing/timesharing buddy, does not remember anything about that resort.  Perhaps he got stuck with one of the bunks in the ship's cabin, not exactly made for a 300-pounder!  Anyway, he has absolutely memory of it as we have discussed it several times over the years.

About that same time we stayed at Lahaina Inn for the first time, and that was with his wife his us.  We were in a unit across the road there, so we learned about that then.  As I recall, it came with some pet rodents.  We have encountered that before, and we normally give them names, like Jingles, and leave crumbs out for them.  Normally by the end of the week they get comfortable with us.  

He (my buddy, not the mouse) is also the one that walked down the beach with me last month and we toured Windward Passage together.  He is beginning to get a feel for what we do here and we had just gone next door and toured and rated Royal Beach Club, whose hot tub we had been using.  When I asked him to rate the units in the main building at WP, he said maybe a 2.  As to the other units, in the annex whatever it is, he said the ratings would be just less than Motel 6.

And they and we are not fancy people.


----------



## BocaBum99 (Feb 7, 2008)

Cathy,

I would say that the resorts on the East Coast of Florida are nicer in Bluegreen.  Those tend to be Club resorts as opposed to associate resorts.  Club resorts tend to have more inventory and are managed by Bluegreen.


----------



## theo (Feb 8, 2008)

*Curiousity...*



BocaBum99 said:


> Re .... club resorts as opposed to associate resorts.  Club resorts tend to have more inventory and are managed by Bluegreen.



Boca:
Owning in the past and/or currently at several Fort Myers Beach facilities, I'm curious as to the process by which Bluegreen chooses (and then proceeds to buy into) an "associate" facility. I've owned fixed weeks at some FMB facilities since their original construction, when Bluegreen was certainly *nowhere* in the picture (at least at those particular resorts). Fast forward to a few decades later, however, and Bluegreen is definitely a "presence" at several of these different facilities which I know pretty well. 

I have little or no knowledge about Bluegreen and I certainly have no subagenda in asking this question -- I am simply curious. Bluegreen has been, is now, and will remain completely irrelevant to my own ownership and use of a few particular fixed weeks. However, since some of these "affiliated" facilities are not ones which I (or others) see as being particularly attractive (Windward Passage being an excellent case in point), I'm both puzzled and curious how / why Bluegreen chooses to buy into "associate" resorts, with their assorted and disparate management entities, some of which are clearly and decidedly better than others.

Any thoughts, insights, opinions (or winning lottery numbers) you can / will share would be genuinely appreciated. Thanks in advance.


----------



## CharlesS (Feb 8, 2008)

*Bluegreen not RDI*

Theo,

Bluegreen bought out RDI in 1997 and acquired all of RDI's inventory which includes those western Florida resorts.  Bluegreen had to take the whole package or none of it.  Fast forward a few years and look at what Bluegreen is now choosing to associate with and your "puzzlement" should go away.

Charles



theo said:


> Boca:
> Owning in the past and/or currently at several Fort Myers Beach facilities, I'm curious as to the process by which Bluegreen chooses (and then proceeds to buy into) an "associate" facility. I've owned fixed weeks at some FMB facilities since their original construction, when Bluegreen was certainly *nowhere* in the picture (at least at those particular resorts). Fast forward to a few decades later, however, and Bluegreen is definitely a "presence" at several of these different facilities which I know pretty well.
> 
> I have little or no knowledge about Bluegreen and I certainly have no subagenda in asking this question -- I am simply curious. Bluegreen has been, is now, and will remain completely irrelevant to my own ownership and use of a few particular fixed weeks. However, since some of these "affiliated" facilities are not ones which I (or others) see as being particularly attractive (Windward Passage being an excellent case in point), I'm both puzzled and curious how / why Bluegreen chooses to buy into "associate" resorts, with their assorted and disparate management entities, some of which are clearly and decidedly better than others.
> ...


----------



## theo (Feb 8, 2008)

*Still a bit confused...*



CharlesS said:


> Bluegreen bought out RDI in 1997 and acquired all of RDI's inventory which includes those western Florida resorts.  Bluegreen had to take the whole package or none of it.  Charles



Charles:
To be honest, I don't know who / what RDI is / was. That fact aside, however, since Bluegreen does not and did not, at any time in the past or at present, ever (or now) own or manage *ANY* of the several particular resorts with which I am familiar and to which I was specifically referring, can I correctly assume that what you are saying is that RDI (whatever that was) acquired and owned some _*WEEKS*_ at these particular SW FL resorts and that those _*WEEKS*_ were subsequently acquired by Bluegreen  when Bluegreen acquired RDI?  If that is a correct interpretation of what you are saying (please confirm, or correct me if I'm mistaken), that may provide some insight into the judgement (and perhaps the later demise) of RDI...


----------



## theo (Feb 8, 2008)

*Still a bit confused...*

voluntarily deleted inadvertent duplicate post. Sorry....


----------



## JLB (Feb 8, 2008)

In this article announcing Bluegreen's purchase of RDI, it says that RDI* owned* resorts in Orlando and Wisconsin (Christmas Mountain Village), and *managed* 30 resorts in Florida, Alabama, Georgia, Virginia, and South Carolina.  Just guessing, the FL resorts we are discussing were managed by RDI, not owned by them, and, thus, are _associate_ resorts with Bluegreen.

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0EIN/is_1997_Oct_8/ai_19841721 

Of the acquisition, Bluegreen's own site says, _"With this acquisition, Bluegreen became one of the largest property managers of vacation ownership resorts in the U.S.,_" again referring only to managing the resorts.

Bluegreen Resorts Management, Inc. f/k/a RDI Resort Services Corporation 

http://www.timeshareforums.com/forums/bluegreen-resorts/11251-curious-about-bluegreen.html

If you wonder where RDI got those resorts, and to see the list, they got them from the man/company that developed them, many from hotel and motel conversions.

_"1996	Sold all companies to RDI Resort Services Corporation."_

http://www.execq.com/documents/Keith Curriculum Vitae 2004.doc


----------



## BocaBum99 (Feb 8, 2008)

Theo,

Charles is correct.  RDI was a point system that aggregated a bunch of inventory at many resorts.  When Bluegreen bought them out, they retained usage of those weeks in the RDI system and added them to the Bluegreen Vacation Club. 

Suffice it to say that the only role that Bluegreen has in most of its associate resorts is to manage the inventory for reservation purposes only that owners at those resorts converted to RDI and subsequently Bluegreen points.

Bluegreen's main interest is to build out new resorts for new owners.

Jim


----------



## AwayWeGo (Feb 8, 2008)

*No Comparative Data But Got Good 1st Impression In St. Augustine.*

Our 1st exposure to a BlueGreen timeshare was in Gordonsville VA -- Shenandoah Crossing.   We weren't checked in as guests, just rubbernecking as prospects on timeshare tour (for freebies -- call us mooches if you want, but in this case they cold-called us, & we didn't go looking for them).  The timeshare was OK, but nothing special (to us) -- neither the resort nor the Virginia countryside location. 

Our 1st actual stay in a BlueGreen timeshare was last month in St. Augustine FL -- Resort At Golf World Village.  Details are on the _TUG Resort Reviews_ section.  Short version = We liked it, good _wow_ factor, had a nice time. 

In Orlando FL, BlueGreen has a timeshare resort right across the street from Vistana Villages that looks spectacular from the outside looking in & ditto on the BlueGreen timeshare web site -- The Fountains, I think it is.  We would have made a reservation there instead of Wyndham Cypress Palms if we could have snagged it via _Last Call_ or _Instant Exchange_.  (We couldn't so we didn't.) 

At the Cypress Palms sales pitch, the Wyndham guy said BlueGreen's biz plan is to buy up troubled resorts & turn'm around & add to them.  He said Shenandoah Crossing & Resort At Golf World Village are both examples of that.   The BlueGreen timeshare seller at Shenandoah Crossing (when we were there on tour) said just about the same thing about Shenandoah Crossing.  

The Wyndham guy said The Fountains was started by a British concern that ran into financial trouble & sold out to BlueGreen.  The Wyndham guy said if we ever get a Fountains reservation, we should try to get assigned to a unit in the old section.  That's because the Brits were building spacious units at the original resort & BlueGreen since taking over has been building smaller units, he said.  (He wouldn't _misrepresent_ another timeshare company's timeshare would he?  _Na-a-a-a-h!_ ) 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## BocaBum99 (Feb 8, 2008)

Alan,

All of the resorts you mentioned are "Club" resorts and are managed by Bluegreen.  Bluegreen is an excellent management company.  They are very good at buying a hotel or motel and converting it into a timeshare resort after stripping it down and building it back up.


----------



## theo (Feb 8, 2008)

*Thanks...*



BocaBum99 said:


> Theo,
> 
> Charles is correct.  RDI was a point system that aggregated a bunch of inventory at many resorts.  When Bluegreen bought them out, they retained usage of those weeks in the RDI system and added them to the Bluegreen Vacation Club.
> 
> ...




Jim:
Thanks for the clarification. As mentioned previously, I knew that neither RDI nor Bluegreen ever owned *or* managed *any* of the several facilities with which I am personally familiar by past and/or present ownership. I knew that much from having owned at (and written annual maintenance fee checks to the _*actual*_ management entities at) several of those facilities for quite a few years, one since its' original construction. Consequently, it was unclear to me how Bluegreen had entered the picture at all in the first place at these particular resorts --- and I'd not before even heard of RDI.

As I now understand the evolution, RDI apparently owned some weeks at these particular facilities --- facilities which RDI (and / or Keith Trowbridge) did not originally develop, or ever own *or* manage. Those particular weeks evidently went to Bluegreen upon Bluegreens' acquisition of RDI and those weeks remain within Blugreen today for club / points use. This explains the limited, residual Bluegreen presence today in these few particular places. I _think_ I've finally got it straight now in my alleged mind... 

Ignorance was bliss, but I guess knowledge is better. Thanks again.


----------



## JLB (Feb 9, 2008)

You did not disappoint, noticing that _your_ resorts are not on Mr. Trowbridge's list of accomplishments.   

However, Surfrider is (as I recall), and it is my assumption that it was RDI's acquisition from Trowbridge which got them involved in SW FL (the majority being resorts along or near Estero/Hickory Blvd.), and, subsequently, in _your_ resorts.  In other words, I assume that if RDI had not been drawn to SW FL by the acquisition of Trowbridge's stuff, they never would have been involved in _your_ resorts, however it was that they were involved.

In my search I could not find a link to what resorts RDI was involved with when BG acquired them.  Anyone find that list?

How long have you owned whatever you own?

What I find strange about this is how many SW FL resorts went to RDI from Trowbridge, and then on to BG, but BG does not now appear to be involved in them.  I could swear that resorts like Bonita Resort and Club and Vanderbilt Beach Club used to be available to rent through BG.  I'm feeling that was like 5-7 years ago, maybe more recently.

Cathy's getting a thorough lesson in SW FL resort management, much more than she needs.   



theo said:


> RDI apparently owned some weeks at these particular facilities --- facilities which RDI (and / or Keith Trowbridge) did not originally develop, or ever own *or* manage.


----------



## BocaBum99 (Feb 9, 2008)

JLB said:


> In my search I could not find a link to what resorts RDI was involved with when BG acquired them.  Anyone find that list?



Bluegreen Acquired RDI in 1997.  

Here is a TUG article from 1997 that describes how to use RDI and it includes a list of the original RDI resorts.  RDI Vacation Club

Paradise Isle Resort 
Shoreline Towers 
Via Roma Beach Resort 
Beach Dolphin Beach Club 
Fantasy Island Resort II 
Beach Mariner's Boat House 
Tropical Sands Resort 
Windward Passage Resort 
Gulfstream Manor 
Resort 66 
Orlando's Sunshine Resort 
Outrigger Beach Resort 
Landmark Holiday Beach Resort 
Ocean Towers Beach Club 
Panama City Resort & Club 
Big Canoe Petit Crest Villas 
Player's Club 
Royal Dunes 
Shennandoah Crossing Farm & Club 
Christmas Mountain Village


----------



## BocaBum99 (Feb 9, 2008)

JLB said:


> What I find strange about this is how many SW FL resorts went to RDI from Trowbridge, and then on to BG, but BG does not now appear to be involved in them.  I could swear that resorts like Bonita Resort and Club and Vanderbilt Beach Club used to be available to rent through BG.  I'm feeling that was like 5-7 years ago, maybe more recently.



Bluegreen is involved in more resorts than just those in the Bluegreen Vacation Club.

So, it wouldn't surprise me if Bluegreen is renting units for resorts not in the Bluegreen Vacation Club.


----------



## CharlesS (Feb 9, 2008)

theo said:


> As mentioned previously, I knew that neither RDI nor Bluegreen ever owned *or* managed *any* of the several facilities with which I am personally familiar by past and/or present ownership.


According to the checkin people at Tropical Sands somewhere around the turn of the century, Bluegreen did manage Tropical Sands.  The checkin people were happy that Bluegreen no longer managed Tropical Sands. By the way, those two "ladies" were the rudest timeshare employees that I have encountered in 10 years.

Charles


----------



## theo (Feb 9, 2008)

*I have my doubts....*



CharlesS said:


> According to the check in people at Tropical Sands somewhere around the turn of the century, Bluegreen did manage Tropical Sands.  The checkin people were happy that Bluegreen no longer managed Tropical Sands. By the way, those two "ladies" were the rudest timeshare employees that I have encountered in 10 years.
> 
> Charles



There has been much staff turnover at TSR in recent years (not necessarily representing improvement), but I think the ill mannered ladies you encountered may be mistaken in their stated belief. Moreover, certainly none of the new TSR staff has been there long enough to know anything at all about (or offer an informed viewpoint concerning) any management entity which may have been in place prior to the current one (RAL). 

I bought a few consecutive fixed weeks at TSR during its' initial construction in / around the early 1980's, impressed with the quality of construction which I saw in progress and the comfortable size of the units-to-be. I have maintained that ownership continuously since. Unless my memory is really bad (a possibility, I suppose, but one I think unlikley) regarding the payee for my maintenance fee checks, I do not recall ever seeing or reading the word "Bluegeen" in any correspondence or maintenance fee bill at any time in the past 25 or so years since. That said, I have certainly met Bluegreen guests at TSR now and then in recent years who were there by virtue of their Bluegreen points membership.


----------



## theo (Feb 9, 2008)

*Yes and no...*



JLB said:


> You did not disappoint, noticing that _your_ resorts are not on Mr. Trowbridge's list of accomplishments.



Actually, that's not entirely true. I own one week at each of _two_ different facilities which appear on Trowbridges' curriculum vita. However, both of those purchases occurred after Trowbridge sold to RDI and after RDI sold to Bluegreen. Bluegreen has not managed either of those two facilities during the period of my ownership since then. However, I cannot speak intelligently regarding the few years in between, when Bluegreen may or may not have been managing the facility.

As mentioned in the post directly adjoining this one, replying to Charles, I've owned two _other_ weeks at TSR since its' initial construction. I am quite certain that neither Trowbridge nor RDI nor Bluegreen built (or ever owned) this facility. I am also _reasonably_ sure that Bluegreen has never managed it subsequently, but I'd stand corrected about that belief in the face of hard evidence to the contrary. I simply don't remember ever seeing or hearing the Bluegreen name in any correspondence or maintenance fee bills. Generally, my memory is pretty good when it comes to sending money out the door  , but it _has_ now been several decades at this point.....


----------



## tombo (Feb 9, 2008)

VRI  (   http://www.vriresorts.com/Destinations.html ), not Bluegreen,   currently manages many of the resorts listed on the RDI list that Bluegreen acquired. I own at at couple of VRI resorts. Bluegreen (from my understanding) used to manage a couple of the resorts (before VRI), and had a deal where upon paying fees, owners could turn their weeks into Bluegreen weeks. Also Bluegreen allegedly bought a lot the repo's when they were on site. Many of these Blugreen affiliated resorts are simply resorts where Blugreen has access to very limited inventory and usually the inventory is not prime weeks. Bluegreen to the best of my knowledge has no tie to any of these resorts other than having control over the weeks turned into Bluegreen weeks.

One of my good friends is a Bluegreen owner and has tried (in vain) for 2 years to book the same summer week as me at Landmark Holiday beach resort with no success. I asked at the desk if Bluegreen had a lot of summer weeks at the resort and was told that the percentage of weeks at the resort owned by Bluegreen was very small, and that they had almost no summer weeks, so that was why my friends could never book a week there through Bluegreen.

P.S. The office people at Landmark are also thrilled that Bluegreen is gone from their building. I know for sure that this resort was built and sold out by an individual, and all long before Bluegreen ever appeared on the scene.


----------



## BocaBum99 (Feb 9, 2008)

The Bluegreen Vacation Club owns 676 intervals in Landmark Holiday Beach Resort spread out across 95 different units.

If my math is correct, Landmark has 145 units or 7395 total intervals, excluding maintenance weeks.

So, the Bluegreen Vacation Club owns about 9% of the resort.


----------



## tombo (Feb 9, 2008)

Using your figures, 9% of the weeks are owned by Bluegreen, which means that 91% of the weeks are owned by non Bluegreen owners. I believe the front desk's response that Bluegreen owns a small per cent of the weeks is accurate with these percentages. 

The summer weeks at Landmark are fixed. Do you have any idea of the number of summer weeks owned by Bluegreen at Landmark? I do not know the figure, but I do know that my friend has been unable to reserve a summer week there for 2 years in a row, and he is VIP with Bluegreen.


----------



## JLB (Feb 9, 2008)

Really!?  I thought the two at Tropic Sun Towers II were the rudest.  it was a few years ago and when we arrived, late, and I was walking to the office, they were standing outside smoking cigarettes and staring at me.  When they saw my RCI envelope they had a big belly-laugh and one said, "See I told you, RCI."  I guess the joke was on me because they didn't let me in on it.

Then, there was another one lately, but I have a gentleman's agreement not to talk about it on the Internet.



CharlesS said:


> By the way, those two "ladies" were the rudest timeshare employees that I have encountered in 10 years.
> 
> Charles


----------



## JLB (Feb 9, 2008)

As I suspected, the resorts in question do appear on RDI's list, provided by Mr. Bum, and that is how Bluegreen got involved with them.

Now, confusingly, resorts which I assumed would be on it, are not.  

The resports on BG reminds me of the sign I see in some businesses, "Everyone makes this place brighter and happier.  Some when they arrrive.  Some when they leave."


----------



## rapmarks (Feb 10, 2008)

When we were in Florida in 1993, RDI did have an association with Tropical Sands and Windward Passage, as we were allowed day use at those resorts with our RDI VIP card. WEe had exchange into the Bonita Golf Resort. 
In Feb 2003, I used two nights of bonus time from bluegreen at Tropical Sands and encountered one of the rude front desk people that charles mentioned. My ownership was the same as 1993, but had passed from RDI to Bluegreen.
I booked and paid bluegreen for the two nights. I called the resort. She had no record of the booking, she said to call Bluegreen and have them fax our reservation. She said they had nothing to do with Bluegreen, good riddance. After I called bluegreen to fax the info, I called the resort again. This time she had the reservation, but told me you are not checking in early. I said i am actually calling to see what happens if I am late. She calmed down and told me. when i arrived, I got an earful about Bluegreeen. We wer no longer allowed day use either, and were disappointed as we wanted to spend a couple of hours at the resort before dring back to northern Florida.

However, on this trip we discovered the wonderful difference between the weather in Ocala and the wether in SW Floria and came back the following fall and looked for a home, staying until we found one.

RDI wasd owned at first by Ken Keim and he died of a sudden heart attack in the nineties. he had already sold Christmas Mountain to his sons and Dave Bidgood when he died, but I am tryin to remember if he still owned RDI, I think he did. 

I was told that Randy Keim purchased the unsold inventory at all the RDI resorts and started the RDI points system, which he later sold along with Christmas Mountain and Shenendoah Crossing to Bluegreen. The unsold inventory of course would not be the prime weeks.inventory

Ken Keim, Randy Keim, and David Bidgod all owned homes at christmas Mountain Village at one time and they were our neighbors.


----------



## theo (Feb 10, 2008)

*Just to add to the confusion....*



JLB said:


> What I find strange about this is how many SW FL resorts went to RDI from Trowbridge, and then on to BG, but BG does not now appear to be involved in them.  I could swear that resorts like Bonita Resort and Club and Vanderbilt Beach Club used to be available to rent through BG.  I'm feeling that was like 5-7 years ago, maybe more recently.



Your recollection may be correct and, if so, I have a (factually deficient, but still viable) theory as to how / why it may no longer be so.....

I have periodically received unsolicited contacts in recent years from Pinnacle Vacations, an entity which has some sort of resale arrangement  / affiliation with Bluegreen. The actual details of that affiliation are neither known nor of interest to me. These contacts have been on behalf of private folks (legitimately, definitely not "scammers") looking to buy one or two of my specific, owned fixed weeks (which have been neither for sale nor advertised anywhere at any time, past or present).

Extrapolating from this, I'm theorizing that Pinnacle Vacations (whoever they are) is directly involved with resales of Bluegreen owned weeks at various SW FL facilities. If so, when such weeks (which are certainly very few in number at some smaller SW FL resorts to begin with) are sold via Pinnacle Vacations to private individuals via the resale market, such sold weeks would at that point disappear forever from Bluegreen ownership and / or any future ability to use in the Bluegreen  points system, rent out directly by Bluegreen, etc. In short, each such resale would permanently "delete" that week / unit from the Bluegreen inventory picture upon conclusion of transfer from Bluegreen to the new private owner. That *may* explain the disappearance of Bonita Resort weeks from Bluegreen today.

Again, I offer this just as a *theory* --- not as a claim, statement of fact, or proclamation of any kind.


----------



## theo (Feb 10, 2008)

*Another possibility?*



rapmarks said:


> When we were in Florida in 1993, RDI did have an association with Tropical Sands and Windward Passage, as we were allowed day use at those resorts with our RDI VIP card. We had exchange into the Bonita Resort.



No argument intended, but I'm not convinced that the "shared use" arrangement you experienced in the 1990's reflected actual RDI management at either Tropical Sands or Windward Passage. Having owned at TSR since it was first being built, just for example, I've never once even heard mention of RDI at TSR  before this week (and only right here on this bbs). My memory *can't* be *that* bad (...can it?).  

Is it not instead possible that the "shared use" arrangement was merely the result of RDI owning some _weeks_ at each one of these other two FMB facilities (as opposed to being either the actual facility owner or management entity for either one of them?). I'm not arguing, just wondering --- it's certainly an academic point 15 years later anyhow...

I also wonder (but certainly do not claim to know) how, in the developer / ownership / management evolution discussed, each of these assorted FMB resorts came to be under the aegis of their current respective management companies. Of those resorts at FMB which I personally know at least a bit about, here is the roster as it exists today:

*VRI*:
Windward Passage, Bonita Resort & Club, Caribbean Beach Club, Mariner's Boathouse, Beach Club I

*RAL*:
Estero Island Beach Club, Kahlua Beach Club, Tropical Sands Resort

*BLUEGREEN*:
Maybe NO resorts actually under Bluegreen management at FMB anymore? (...but Bluegreen or its' Vacation Club still own some *weeks* at Mariner's Boathouse, Windward Passage and Tropical Sands).

There _*may*_ be other FMB facilities in any or all of the above three groups. I've merely identified those I know about directly and personally.


----------



## AwayWeGo (Feb 10, 2008)

*Memory & Age.*




theo said:


> My memory *can't* be *that* bad (can it?).


As I get older, I find that my memory is improving  -- a phenomenon remarked upon by Mark Twain, who said the same thing happened to him. 

My memory is so good now that I can remember things even if they never actually happened. 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## BocaBum99 (Feb 10, 2008)

theo said:


> Your recollection may be correct and, if so, I have a (factually deficient, but still viable) theory as to how / why it may no longer be so.....
> 
> I have periodically received unsolicited contacts in recent years from Pinnacle Vacations, an entity which has some sort of resale arrangement  / affiliation with Bluegeen, the actual details of which affiliation are neither known nor of interest to me. These contacts have been on behalf of private folks (legitimately, definitely not "scammers") looking to buy one or two of my specific, owned fixed weeks (which have been neither for sale nor advertised anywhere at any time, past or present).
> 
> ...



There is no need to theorize about Pinnacle Vacations.  Pinnacle Vacations is a wholly owned subsidiary of Bluegreen Corporation and they are fully licensed Real Estate Brokers in Florida.  So, they are squeaky clean.  They were originally part of RDI and Bluegreen kept them once they were acquired.

Pinnacle Vacations helps Bluegreen owners sell their units when they don't want them anymore as you would expect from a resale company.  That is their primary role.  I find it very refreshing that a resort developer actually has a resale organization to help owners sell their weeks.  Their fees are right in line with the market for resale companies.


----------



## BocaBum99 (Feb 10, 2008)

I forgot to mention.  Inventory in Pinnacle Vacations is owner inventory.  For every piece of inventory they have, there is an owner who wants to sell it who is NOT affiliated with Bluegreen Corp.  That owner pays a commission to Pinnacle Vacations for finding a buyer when the deal closes.

The Bluegreen Vacation Club inventory is inventory owned by Bluegreen Vacation Club owners, NOT Bluegreen.  So, Bluegreen does not sell that inventory except when listed through Pinnacle Vacations.  That means the 600+ intervals in the Bluegreen Vacation Club held at Landmark are owned by individuals, NOT Bluegreen.

As you might imagine, Pinnacle Vacations also gets requests from owners who want to add to their portfolio.  If they know you have fixed weeks, they contact you to see if you are interested in selling as any broker would do.

Developer inventory (i.e. inventory owned by Bluegreen) is held by the Resorts and Sales Centers.  They sell that inventory at Retail rates of between $1.25-2.00 per point.  Bluegreen takes trade ins and converts fixed weeks to points.  That, too, is developer inventory sold at Retail.


----------



## theo (Feb 10, 2008)

*Clarification*



BocaBum99 said:


> There is no need to theorize about Pinnacle Vacations.  Pinnacle Vacations is a wholly owned subsidiary of Bluegreen Corporation and they are fully licensed Real Estate Brokers in Florida.  So, they are squeaky clean.  They were originally part of RDI and Bluegreen kept them once they were acquired.



Jim:
I did not / do not question the legitimacy of Pinnacle Vacations. 

The only "theory" part of my reply to JLB was in offering a *possible* explanation (theory) regarding where reportedly formerly available weeks at Bonita Resort may have gone. No more, no less, no aspersions cast.


----------



## BocaBum99 (Feb 10, 2008)

theo said:


> Jim:
> I did not / do not question the legitimacy of Pinnacle Vacations.
> 
> The only "theory" part of my reply to JLB was in offering a *possible* explanation (theory) regarding where reportedly formerly available weeks at Bonita Resort may have gone. No more, no less, no aspersions cast.



I never thought you were casting aspersions.  I just wanted to help you turn theory into fact by providing you additional information that you may not have had.


----------



## JLB (Feb 10, 2008)

I knew it wasn't what I was smoking!   

http://www.myresortnetwork.com/resorts/Bluegreen.asp


----------



## rapmarks (Feb 10, 2008)

I exchanged into Bonita Golf Resort through RCI.  It had nothing to do with RDI.  On that trip we went to Panama City Beach at a RDI resort through bonus time with RDI and did day use at  Windward Passage while we were in Bonita Springs through RDI. We used day use because the resort in Bonita had a pool heated to 60 degrees and no hot tub and no beach.  I can't find it in the RCI book any longer, but people say it is still in RCI.  
 I don't excactly what the relationship was between RDI and those resorts, I just know we were told we could get bonus time and day use at Windward Passage through our ownership at Christmas Mountain.  
I do recall the woman at Tropical Sands saying they got rid of Bluegreen, but I can remember owners there saying they never heard of Bluegreen.  

The Bonita Resort and Club never had anything to do with Bluegreen or RDI that I know of.  A friend of mine bought at the Bonita Resort and club on Little Hickory in 1991.  He mentioned that RDI tried to get management there but they didn't accept them.  He was on the board at that time, and is on the board now.  I don't believe RDI or Bluegreen ever had anything to do with the Bonita Resort on LIttle Hickory Island.


----------



## london (Feb 10, 2008)

*Blugreen*

Hammocks in Marathon Key would be a fine choice. The keys are a great place to visit.


----------



## london (Feb 10, 2008)

*Blugreen and others*

Timeshares will continue to get mixed and mingled as large timeshare management companies purchase inventory and make agreements with resorts or management companies.

It will interesting to see where timeshares are in about 10 years.


----------



## JLB (Feb 10, 2008)

Golf Villas, a quirky place with a quirky RCI relationship.  The last RCI book I see them in is 2003.



rapmarks said:


> I exchanged into Bonita Golf Resort through RCI.


----------



## JLB (Feb 10, 2008)

The link I posted in #48 shows BRAC in a list of rentals available through Bluegreen.  That's where I had seen it tied to Bluegreen before.

To my knowledge and experience, BRAC doesn't have any management company.  They have an office manager, a maintenance guy and a sales lady.  And a local board looking after things. 



rapmarks said:


> The Bonita Resort and Club never had anything to do with Bluegreen or RDI that I know of.


----------



## theo (Feb 10, 2008)

*Conflicting info...*



rapmarks said:


> The Bonita Resort and Club never had anything to do with Bluegreen or RDI that I know of.  A friend of mine bought at the Bonita Resort and club on Little Hickory in 1991.  He mentioned that RDI tried to get management there but they didn't accept them.  He was on the board at that time, and is on the board now.  I don't believe RDI or Bluegreen ever had anything to do with the Bonita Resort on LIttle Hickory Island.



Well, I don't know Keith Trowbridge from Adam's cat, but his curriculum vita (direct link provided courtesy of JLB in an earlier post within this thread) openly claims in writing that he (Trowbridge, not JLB...) developed Bonita Resort & Club, as well as Vanderbilt Beach and Harbour Club, in 1981. That same curriculum vita further states that Trowbridge sold all of his company assets to RDI in 1996. History further indicates that Bluegreen acquired *all* RDI inventory (presumably including Bonita Resort & Club) in 1997. Accordingly, it would appear (if Trowbridge claims are accurate) that *both* RDI *and* Bluegreen *each* owned Bonita Resort & Club; the former in 1996 and the latter in 1997. When or how BG ownership may have ceased after 1997 (or who managed the facility in either 1996 or 1997) I do not know. Whether or not it's even important, I also surely do not know.


----------



## theo (Feb 10, 2008)

*Not so...*



JLB said:


> To my knowledge and experience, BRAC doesn't have any management company.  They have an office manager, a maintenance guy and a sales lady.  And a local board looking after things.



While having all of the above as described, Bonita Resort & Club is managed by VRI, as indicated in an earlier post. A family member owns a fixed week there and I saw a copy of the 2008 maintenance fee bill from VRI (and the associated cancelled check) earlier today, in fact. I noted with some surprise that the tab was nearly $500 for the 1BR unit owned there.


----------



## JLB (Feb 10, 2008)

When I posted I wasn't thinking about all the fee collecting and all that kinda stuff that has to be done.  I was thinking more in terms of on-site management, since the management company at my home resort has an on-site staff.  But BRAC isn't the type of resort that needs a staff for its 26 units.

We've stayed there a bajillion times, but maybe not any more.  The last we were there (Jan '07) the unit we always stay in Week 2 was for sale, so I knew it wouldn't be deposited with RCI any more.  We saw it posted on Dec. 31 when we checked in.  I went in at 9:00 AM, Tuesday 1/2/07, to buy it ($2000) and it was already sold.  $500/year isn't bad cuz the pontoon boats and Estero Bay are a big plus for us.  Two or three half-day boat rentals would cost that.

Also, not a bad fee for a week in SW FL in Snowbird season.  We were concerned that the place could use a refurbishing inside.  They just did the exterior last year and were passing around paint _samples_ while we were there.  When we were by last month I couldn't tell that they had changed the color, but it was new paint. 

We pulled in just to say Hi. 

And like all places/people that are getting a little old, the physical plant is at the point when it will need some TLC.

The maintenance guy they had before the current one let a lot of stuff slide, so the new guy had a bunch of catching up to do.  

Friends at BRAC also had Weeks 1 and 2 for sale.  It was the unit next door.  But, they wanted too much and already had another buyer, another owner, which is where most Snowbird resales there go.



theo said:


> While having all of the above as described, Bonita Resort & Club is managed by VRI, as indicated in an earlier post. A family member owns a fixed week there and I saw a copy of the 2008 maintenance fee bill from VRI (and the associated cancelled check) earlier today, in fact. I noted with some surprise that the tab was nearly $500 for the 1BR unit owned there.


----------



## CharlesS (Feb 11, 2008)

*Note differences*



theo said:


> Accordingly, it would appear (if Trowbridge claims are accurate) that *both* RDI *and* Bluegreen *each* owned Bonita Resort & Club; the former in 1996 and the latter in 1997.


Theo,

Thanks for the more detailed history.  Very interesting.

Note that there is a big difference between:

1) Owning a resort

2) Owning some of the inventory in a resort

3) Managing a resort

I am quite sure that Bluegreen did not own Bonita Resort & Club.  They may have owned some inventory and may have managed it.  If they don't own enough inventory to control the HOA, the HOA can choose any management company of which VRI is a good one.

Charles


----------



## theo (Feb 11, 2008)

*I'm not as sure...*



CharlesS said:


> Theo,
> 
> Thanks for the more detailed history.  Very interesting.
> 
> ...



I certainly and fully understand the distinctions among all of the above. 

What I guess I can't quite grasp, however, is how it could be possible that Bluegreen did not, at least temporarily, own BR&C (the resort itself, and specifically beginning in 1997) if Bluegreen acquired all RDI assets in 1997 and RDI still owned BR&C at that particular time. I suppose that one possibile explanation is that BR&C may have been mostly sold out by 1996 and, accordingly, the facility itself was not part of the Trowbridge assets acquired by RDI in 1996 and from RDI to Bluegreen in 1997. Perhaps just a  few retained or unsold units made these ownership change journeys. All of this is ancient history now, of course, but still interesting nonetheless...


----------



## JLB (Feb 11, 2008)

BR&C is not on the RDI list Mr. Bum provided.
- - - - - -
So, Cathy, have you picked a resort, and, BTW, you will tested over this material before being allowed to stay in SW FL again?!


----------



## theo (Feb 11, 2008)

*So.....what was the question?*



JLB said:


> So, Cathy, have you picked a resort, and, BTW, you will tested over this material before being allowed to stay in SW FL again?!
> ---------------------------------------------------------
> 
> To that point, I offer Cathy my apologies for steering this thread a bit sideways, beginning back in post #20. I hope that sufficient info in response to the original question was provided before that sharp left turn was made (....but I still enjoyed the ride while lost on the side streets).


----------



## rapmarks (Feb 11, 2008)

theo, you are probably correct with the guess that BRAC was already sold out when the asets were picked up by RDI because I never saw it listed anywhere on list of bonus availablility and we owned with RDI since 1987.  But I bet that at the  time of the sale to RDI they made an attempt to take over the management and were turned down.


----------



## CharlesS (Feb 11, 2008)

*You make a reasonable suggestion*



theo said:


> I certainly and fully understand the distinctions among all of the above.
> 
> What I guess I can't quite grasp, however, is how it could be possible that Bluegreen did not, at least temporarily, own BR&C (the resort itself, and specifically beginning in 1997) if Bluegreen acquired all RDI assets in 1997 and RDI still owned BR&C at that particular time. I suppose that one possible explanation is that BR&C may have been mostly sold out by 1996 and, accordingly, the facility itself was not part of the Trowbridge assets acquired by RDI in 1996 and from RDI to Bluegreen in 1997. Perhaps just a  few retained or unsold units made these ownership change journeys. All of this is ancient history now, of course, but still interesting nonetheless...



Theo,

Your suggestion that BR&C was sold out makes sense to me.  Also, we must remember that these posts may be read by many others some of whom may not understand the difference between BG owning a resort and just owning inventory.  And thanks for this left turn. It has proven enlightening to me.

Charles


----------



## JLB (Feb 12, 2008)

That was my logic also, thus my surprise when neither BR&C or VB&HC appear on Mr. Bum's RDI list.



theo said:


> Well, I don't know Keith Trowbridge from Adam's cat, but his curriculum vita (direct link provided courtesy of JLB in an earlier post within this thread) openly claims in writing that he (Trowbridge, not JLB...) developed Bonita Resort & Club, as well as Vanderbilt Beach and Harbour Club, in 1981. That same curriculum vita further states that Trowbridge sold all of his company assets to RDI in 1996. History further indicates that Bluegreen acquired *all* RDI inventory (presumably including Bonita Resort & Club) in 1997. Accordingly, it would appear (if Trowbridge claims are accurate) that *both* RDI *and* Bluegreen *each* owned Bonita Resort & Club; the former in 1996 and the latter in 1997.


----------



## JLB (Feb 12, 2008)

FWIW, for years I have avoided talking about BR&C, even to counter a certain someone's review of the spartan-like furnishings and the threadbare sheets, posted because she knew we liked the place.   

I have resisted saying that, that we like the place, for such a long time because it would not take many responding to a statement of that nature on the Internet, to eliminate the very few RCI deposits during Snowbird Season.

Since one unit we usetaget has a new owner (one who will probably never deposit it), the unit we first got has been bought by another owner of a concurrent week, most of the owners are smart enough to either use or rent their Snowbird Season weeks, and the rest have no idea what RCI is (I have sat on the sunset party rooftop many a days with a wireless computer and demonstrated how to use RCI), so that I am fairly certain that getting a unit there (even a dumpsterview unit) when we want to be there is a thing of the past, I feel I can now safely say, without hurting us . . .

We like the place.

Proving, once and for all, how unhoyty-toyty we are.


----------



## theo (Feb 12, 2008)

JLB said:


> ....most of the owners are smart enough to either use or rent their Snowbird Season weeks, and the rest have no idea what RCI is.



God bless those latter folks. What they don't know may actually add quality and years to their lives....


----------



## JLB (Feb 12, 2008)

I remember my first welcome/donut/coffee meeting at BR&C.  I was both RCI and a TUGger.  I wish I had recorded the looks I was getting from the natives.  You would have thought I was an alien.   

Unbelievably, there was another TUGger, a couple from Georgia.

Anyway, I learned just to be cool, not bring up TUG or RCI, not to act like there was anything to the world of timesharing outside of BR&C.  It got to the point where I was like an owner, there every year at the same time, and they let us have one of the extra Week 52 units, for the owner's price.

Occasionally, individually, one of them would ask about RCI and exchanging.  When I talked about it they couldn't believe all the places we have been.  The last time I dragged out the computer for a tutorial, it was because they wanted to get into BR&C another week.


----------



## JLB (Feb 12, 2008)

Now that I think about about it, most of the owners didn't have many left. 

To emphasize that, there was/is a sign in the office that reads, "Unattended children will be sold into slavery."

That seems like cruel humor, but we saw a family that was renting two units, and had a bunch of mischevious rug rats.  We saw the kids tear up the patio furniture, and it didn't phase the parents in the least.  



theo said:


> God bless those latter folks. What they don't know may actually add quality and years to their lives....


----------



## theo (Feb 12, 2008)

*Native pastry...*



JLB said:


> It got to the point where I was like an owner, there every year at the same time, and they let us have one of the extra Week 52 units, for the owner's price.



.....but did they ever also let their guard down a bit on the donuts?


----------



## JLB (Feb 12, 2008)

Unlike elsewhere, folks at BR&C are laid back and cool.  They didn't have a donut guard.  They (the donuts) were just sitting there, as if people had the ability to pick one up and eat it without assistance.

They even have enough faith in folks to trust them with bicycles and boats.  (Although I've watched some of em with the boats, and that trust is misplaced.)  



theo said:


> .....but did they ever also let their guard down a bit on the donuts?


----------

