# Which is your favorite Marriott TS in Hawaii?



## Hankmoon

We are thinking of buying a TS at either Maui Ocean Club, Ko Olina, or Waiohai. I am wondering which one you like the best? What are the pros and cons of each?

If you are an owner at one of these resorts and have done exchanges through II, what have you been able to exchange for? How easy has it been to get what you wanted through an exchange? Has anyone gotten an exchange for Westin St John?

With the 2 BR lockoff, if you deposit a 1 BR and a studio, what kinds of exchanges and in what places do you get exchanges? If I would want to exchange for other equivalent resorts, would it be better to deposit it as a 2BR?


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## rickandcindy23

Maui Ocean Club would be my choice because it's such an oceanfront location and it's Maui and more rentable, should the need arise to rent it.  

Don't exchange it with II.  What a total waste of those MF's.  Use it.  

Waiohai has very few units that are close to the ocean, and maybe my opinion would be different, if I didn't have a very difficult time walking around our last stay there.  We were by the pond with the swan, so we were fortunately not on the outside units, with the views of Brennecke's parking lot.  Anyway, it was a long painful walk to the ocean from where we were.  

We had so many choices to buy, when we decided what we wanted to own.  Rick chose the place, and we are happy to own there, but it's not fancy like the Marriott, and we are good with it.  Our unit still has the two bedrooms and washer/dryer, great kitchen (equipped better than most), and our lanai is 35 feet from the ocean, but it's not for most.  It's very average.  I love it.  Our fees are higher than they should be, but we pay land lease payments and $270 in property tax per week.  3 weeks is also too many to own, but we have rented it each time we couldn't use it.  It's worked fine for us, so far.


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## Dean

Hankmoon said:


> We are thinking of buying a TS at either Maui Ocean Club, Ko Olina, or Waiohai. I am wondering which one you like the best? What are the pros and cons of each?
> 
> If you are an owner at one of these resorts and have done exchanges through II, what have you been able to exchange for? How easy has it been to get what you wanted through an exchange? Has anyone gotten an exchange for Westin St John?
> 
> With the 2 BR lockoff, if you deposit a 1 BR and a studio, what kinds of exchanges and in what places do you get exchanges? If I would want to exchange for other equivalent resorts, would it be better to deposit it as a 2BR?


The answers you'll get will be all over the place.  You'll have to look at the pros and cons, prices, etc.  If you get a good week they should all trade well.  None will be a good choice for exchanging but using most of the time and exchanging part of the time will be helpful.  We despise KBC so we'll not go rather than stay there but all the rest are nice.  Ko Olina is likely the best value $$$ wise.  Ko Olina and Maui have lockoff's.  All have high fees comparatively speaking.  My ease of exchanging has been more in than out as I own at Ko Olina but elsewhere.  Generally I've deposited Ko Olina as separate deposits and gone to Aruba or taken Destination Club points which I'll likely do for next summer as well the way things are shaping up (exchanged in).

Ultimately the answer I'd give you would depend on your preferences and how you'd use it.  To go to HI every year I'd likely own Maui and Kauai (non KBC, likely Waiohai).  To go EOY and exchange on off years I'd likely own Maui and Ko Olina because they are the ones with a lockoff.


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## mjm1

We own an EOY ocean view at Ko Olina and an annual ocean front at the Lahaina/Napili towers on Maui. 

We have owned MKO longer as my DW and I really loved the atmosphere at the resort, which led us to buy there after trading in a couple times. As noted by others, the up front cost is less here than the newer towers in Maui as are the MF's. We don't plan to exchange via II as anything other than Maui would likely be a trade down in value given the MF's. We love the view of the resort and the ocean, but it only has man made lagoons rather than an ocean. No problem for us, but some may not care for it as much. You also have various historical sites and Waikiki to visit, but can also get away to the north shore or simply stay put at Ko Olina. Two additional resorts are being planned for the open spaces along the lagoons, one of which will be next to MKO, but we hoping it doesn't have a significant impact on the atmosphere.

Last year we decided to buy MOC Lahaina tower in the OF view after having stayed there using DC points a couple of times. We had stayed in a mountain/garden view and enjoyed it, but during a sales tour we had a chance to visit an OF unit and were blown away by the view. We bought a resale unit after doing some research and discussing it with a friend here on TUG. We will be staying in it for the first time this fall. As with MKO, we will not trade this via II. MOC is in a great location. You can walk along the sidewalk path along the ocean and get down to Whaler's Village for restaurants. Thebeach and view of the neighboring islands are also breathtaking. As mentioned earlier, up front costs are higher and so are the MF's. We think it's worth it.

We have stayed at Waiohai and KBC on Kauai and enjoyed both of them, but didn't have the same feeling about them as where we have bought.

Good luck and let us know what you decide.

Best regards.

Mike


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## vacationtime1

We own KBC and Waiohai.  We have stayed at those as well as MOC and Ko Olina.

Each has its pro's and con's; there is no right answer.  Is a kitchen important?  Will the number in the group vary year by year?  Are kid activities important?  Do you want/need a fixed week?  Do you prefer a low rise or a high rise environment?  Price?

My suggestion is to rent at each if you haven't already, walk the properties by day and night to determine which view category you want,  and then decide.  Prices are not going up while you research.

btw--if you are concerned about not wanting to go to Hawaii every year, consider buying an every other year unit and renting as needed to supplement.


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## brianfox

Every user here will have a different opinion about the HI resorts.
We have kids that grew up vacationing in Hawaii.
When the kids were little, Ko Olina was the place because the lagoons were suited to them.
As teenagers, they love Waiohai and Poipu beach.
At Waiohai, we see the exact same people there year after year, and have developed strong relationships.  You should also be reading from that statement that Waiohai owners tend to stay there (meaning they tend not to deposit in II).  Being a non-lock-off resort also means very, very few Waiohai deposits.
Ko Olina is so big that every time we go there it's new faces.

If we ranked them it would be:

1. Waiohai
2. Ko Olina
3. Maui Ocean Club
4. Kauai Lagoons
5. Kauai Beach Club

The first three are steps away from the water.
Ko Olina has the best views and arguably the best pool.  It is also on the quieter western part of Oahu.  Much less hectic than Waikiki.  Bad thing about Ko Olina is that there is no beach nearby; the four lagoons hardly count as a beach.
Waiohai has Poipu beach; Maui has Lahaina - both spectacular beaches.
Waiohai is very laid back.  "Feels more like Hawaii" than the other locations.
Maui Ocean Club is in busy Lahaina; take that as a pro or a con.
Kauai Lagoons is too isolated.  No nearby beach.
KBC has a good location and OK beach but the rooms are converted hotel units.  They were not a big hit with my family.

*Why not rent a week at each and see how they feel?*  You cannot go wrong at any of the three you are considering.

And as multiple people have consistently said - don't buy Hawaii to trade in II.  The MF are so high, anything you trade for will be worth less.
Do not think that just because you own a 2BR Ko Olina OV that you will easily trade into Waiohai or vice versa.
II does not get a lot of Marriott Hawaii deposits, so they likely will not have something to trade to you.  Plus, owners are more likely to deposit their studios into II; you will not see many 2BR deposits.
And if you own an Ocean View unit and deposit in II, you will get an Ocean View at the other resort, right?  NOPE!  View is moot once you deposit.
I don't think this point of low II Marriott Hawaii availability is sinking in quite yet.

In terms or buying resale, things to consider:
Waiohai and Ko Olina are about the same in current sales prices.  Maui will be more expensive, as will anything you do in Lahaina.
Ko Olina and Waiohai are the lowest prices I have ever seen.  It's a good time to buy.  If they dropped by half, you would not be out much $$.
It was not that long ago that 2BR at either was $18,000.
At Waiohai, your options are very simple: 2BR Island View or 2BR Ocean View.  And Waiohai has no lockoffs.
At Ko Olina there are more options 1BR, 2BR, 3BR, Penthouse, and for each Island View or Ocean View
At Maui, there are many options.  There are two Maui Ocean Clubs, each with a different tower.  1BR, 2BR, Island View, Ocean View, Ocean Front.
And of course for all of the above another option is EOY or Annual...


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## ljmiii

As others have commented I wouldn't use MVCI HI resorts for II trades. Buy an EOY contract if you think you won't go to HI every year. Or two contracts - that would give you access to 13 month reservations and a nice 2 week vacation on 2 islands. That said...

I own at both, but I like Waiohai better than MOC which makes sense because I like Kauai better than Maui and the resorts reflect their island's sensibilities. I never wanted to stay at Ko Olina because it's on the wrong side of the Oahu for me and my family. However, we'll be staying there for the first time next summer for a few days after we visit Honolulu and use Ko Olina as a base to see the west and north side of Oahu. It has been said that in Hawaii, "Everyone finds their own island". If you haven't been to all four of the major islands I would rent before you buy - the island matters more than the resort.


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## brianfox

Owning two EOY to get the 13-month advantage can work if both have usage in the same year (i.e. both Even or both Odd).  If you own an Even and an Odd, I don't think you can take advantage of the 13 month rule.  I mean, you will qualify for it, but there is to way to actually use it.  But remember that 2 EOY weeks are going to cost you more than one Annual week.


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## Dean

brianfox said:


> Owning two EOY to get the 13-month advantage can work if both have usage in the same year (i.e. both Even or both Odd).  If you own an Even and an Odd, I don't think you can take advantage of the 13 month rule.  I mean, you will qualify for it, but there is to way to actually use it.  But remember that 2 EOY weeks are going to cost you more than one Annual week.


EOY weeks are usually more but not always.  The only way to use the 13 month rule would be for the last week in one year and the first in another and that would normally require a Plus week if it were a HI week.


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## brianfox

Dean said:


> EOY weeks are usually more but not always.  The only way to use the 13 month rule would be for the last week in one year and the first in another and that would normally require a Plus week if it were a HI week.



Exactly what I was thinking.  Just couldn't find the words to say it.


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## Dean

brianfox said:


> Exactly what I was thinking.  Just couldn't find the words to say it.


I'd add that even if the prices are less favorable annual vs EOY, the fee difference may still hold an advantage for many, it certainly does for us.  The other issue about the back to back one year to the next is that the week 53 can get you sometimes and possibly help you at others.


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## LisaRex

I'd buy a TS on the island I liked the best.  I can't imagine anyone who'd like Oahu and Maui equally.  Only then would I consider the differences between any final contenders.

If you want to exchange for Westin St. John, either of the II TSs should have enough pull to see exchange...in theory.  However, I'll warn you that in years' past, there has been zero WSJ availability in II.  Now that II owns VSE, you might see some availability, but I wouldn't count on it, especially if I didn't have Vistana priority.

Personally, I think your best bet would be to offer a direct exchange with whatever Hawaii property you buy via the Tug classifieds.  I successfully direct exchanged Harborside for WKORV here on Tug.  IME, Maui would be the best option for exchanges, however once again, I wouldn't buy a Hawaii TS based on what would be the best exchanger.  If you're not going to use it most years, I'd consider renting, as they are expensive to buy and to maintain.


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## bhrungo

Just returned from an exchange at the Maui Marriott Lahaina & Napili Villas. Stayed in a 2 bedroom, Island view, in the Napili tower. Room 7315. 
Although it was categorized as "Island View," we had an ocean view from one of our balconies. It was a wonderful exchange. 
Heard from an owner that their maintenance fees are outrageous. But I can see why! 

I think I'll keep my Worldmark maintenance fees and just exchange in again.


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## bhrungo

View from our Island View room. Room 7315


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## normab

I agree that if you're going to pay Hawaii maintenance fees then choose the island you like the best.  Seriously, everybody has a favorite, even though all the islands are great.  

We own at Waiohai (yes Kauai is OUR favorite), but always want additional weeks since we like more than one week in Hawaii, after the long trip to Hawaii. So we trade into other Hawaii units and have been very happy with our exchanges.  We use Beachplace gold season for Marriotts and Willow lodge (Branson) silver season for non Marriotts.  Until recently there was no Marriott TS on the big island so we have found some good non Marriotts there and have enjoyed those exchanges.   (In general, we usually request at least 9 months out and that probably helps.)  My point here is that you don't need a Hawaii TS to trade into Hawaii, but obviously if you want to occupy that's a different story.


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## BocaBoy

brianfox said:


> Ko Olina has the best views and arguably the best pool.


Do you seriously think that Ko Olina has better views and a better pool than Maui Ocean Club?  It is a great resort, but I think very few people would agree with that.  (We own at both resorts.)


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## tugcccsp

bhrungo said:


> Just returned from an exchange at the Maui Marriott Lahaina & Napili Villas. Stayed in a 2 bedroom, Island view, in the Napili tower. Room 7315.
> Although it was categorized as "Island View," we had an ocean view from one of our balconies. It was a wonderful exchange.
> Heard from an owner that their maintenance fees are outrageous. But I can see why!
> 
> I think I'll keep my Worldmark maintenance fees and just exchange in again.


I stayed on the same floor as you at the same time.  We may have bumped into each other.  It was a great time of year to be there.  The clouds made the scenery beautiful.


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## VacationForever

LisaRex said:


> I'd buy a TS on the island I liked the best.  I can't imagine anyone who'd like Oahu and Maui equally.  Only then would I consider the differences between any final contenders.


Funny you said this.  Maui is at the bottom for us.  Ko Olina is at the top for us, followed by Kauai.  Many think Oahu = Waikiki and I will never want to stay at Waikiki.  To us Ko Olina has the best of both worlds.  The palis are as breathtaking as what we see in Kauai - you have to go up West and North to see them.  Ko Olina is not as urban as Maui and not as remote as Kauai.  We are still thinking of buying an EOY MKO but we also do not like the idea that we have to commit to flying to Hawaii, even if it is every other year.


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## Hankmoon

I know this is a Hawaii forum but we have been to Hawaii and all the islands at least 8 times. We usually stay at 4 and 5 star resorts equivalent or better than the Marriotts. This year, we decided to explore Mexico and we have decided that Mexico blows Hawaii away for many reasons: better beaches (on Caribbean side), equivalent or better scenery in Puerto Vallarta, much more affordable on both sides, better restaurants, and much nicer resorts/facilities. The 4 and 5 star time shares and vacation clubs in Mexico are on the AAA 4 diamond and 5 diamond lists. They are simply amazing. We were going to buy a Marriott timeshare on TUG but we decided to buy a Grand Luxxe instead. We also own a 2 bedroom lock off with Occidental that allows us to travel all over Mexico as well as Aruba, Costa Rica, Dominican Republic and more and the quality of the First Club 2 bedrooms are better than the Marriotts because we are guaranteed an Ocean View and treated like royalty when we visit. I do not understand why the Mexican timeshares have such a bad reputation. I do know that Vidanta is rated #1 and Occidental is rated #2 as the top Mexican vacation clubs (timeshares). Occidental is the most incredible deal in my opinion since Barcelo bought them. We got so many perks and extra weeks, free days every year and special perks in our membership because we bought a 2 bedroom. We have the choice of 120 properties all over the world with one phone call. Grand Luxxe only has two locations (although Vidanta has 7 locations) but they are planning major expansion of the Grand Luxxe brand. The entry level price for Grand Luxxe is like buying a Marriott in Hawaii right now but you get 3 weeks a year and 2 weeks a year with their trading partner (to travel worldwide) with no mandatory fees. Plus a bunch of other perks. Also, with the trading partners, you can exchange a lower level Vidanta resort if you want or pay a lower exchange fee than a Marriott for trading purposes. The service at both of our Mexican clubs is out of this world as members. At the Marriotts, you are not treated special. It is a 4 star American corporation. At Vidanta, every employee puts their heart across their heart when they greet you, no matter what level resort you are staying at. It is a very nice tradition.


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## VacationForever

Hankmoon said:


> I know this is a Hawaii forum but we have been to Hawaii and all the islands at least 8 times. We usually stay at 4 and 5 star resorts equivalent or better than the Marriotts. This year, we decided to explore Mexico and we have decided that Mexico blows Hawaii away for many reasons: better beaches (on Caribbean side), equivalent or better scenery in Puerto Vallarta, much more affordable on both sides, better restaurants, and much nicer resorts/facilities. The 4 and 5 star time shares and vacation clubs in Mexico are on the AAA 4 diamond and 5 diamond lists. They are simply amazing. We were going to buy a Marriott timeshare on TUG but we decided to buy a Grand Luxxe instead. We also own a 2 bedroom lock off with Occidental that allows us to travel all over Mexico as well as Aruba, Costa Rica, Dominican Republic and more and the quality of the First Club 2 bedrooms are better than the Marriotts because we are guaranteed an Ocean View and treated like royalty when we visit. I do not understand why the Mexican timeshares have such a bad reputation. I do know that Vidanta is rated #1 and Occidental is rated #2 as the top Mexican vacation clubs (timeshares). Occidental is the most incredible deal in my opinion since Barcelo bought them. We got so many perks and extra weeks, free days every year and special perks in our membership because we bought a 2 bedroom. We have the choice of 120 properties all over the world with one phone call. Grand Luxxe only has two locations (although Vidanta has 7 locations) but they are planning major expansion of the Grand Luxxe brand. The entry level price for Grand Luxxe is like buying a Marriott in Hawaii right now but you get 3 weeks a year and 2 weeks a year with their trading partner (to travel worldwide) with no mandatory fees. Plus a bunch of other perks. Also, with the trading partners, you can exchange a lower level Vidanta resort if you want or pay a lower exchange fee than a Marriott for trading purposes. The service at both of our Mexican clubs is out of this world as members. At the Marriotts, you are not treated special. It is a 4 star American corporation. At Vidanta, every employee puts their heart across their heart when they greet you, no matter what level resort you are staying at. It is a very nice tradition.


I agree that many of the top brands Mexican developer timeshares beat the hell out of the Marriotts, Westins and Hyatts.  The main issue with Mexican timeshare is that not everyone is comfortable with travelling and staying in Mexico because of the fear of being caught in the middle of a drug cartel conflict.  Several of these developers are also unscrupulous in their sales tactics.  Hawaii is still part of USA and USA laws apply.  Much of it is psychological.  But there is also the reality that if one gets into any sort of trouble in foreign (Mexican) soil, USA laws do not apply.


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## Hankmoon

Yes that is why the deals in Mexico are so much better for those of us who can tolerate the risk - and who know how to negotiate with the timeshare developers. The timeshare developers have offered me a job after I have bought from them - LOL!


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## Dean

If one wants to go to MX, they can exchange in to top level resorts easily and cheaply.  Certainly there are a ton of great resorts in MX but there are negatives and the scenery is different than HI, which many would say is better.  But MX isn't as safe overall as it was a few years ago though it varies by location somewhat, hopefully the pendulum will swing back at some point.  We much prefer Aruba over MX having been to both several times.


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## Hankmoon

The first time I went to Hawaii, I was in my late 20s about 30 years ago, after having grown up in Miami and having traveled all over the world before and after then. My first island visit in Maui was at the beautiful Sheraton Kaanapali in a direct oceanfront room with my partner. I enjoyed it a lot for a 20 something year old. But even then, with much less travel than now, I was disappointed with Maui. I thought it was over hyped. Since then, I have been to the various islands of Hawaii at least 6 more times that I can remember - back to Maui (Grand Wailea), to Kauai twice (Westin Princeville oceanview and Hilton ocean view), to the Big Island twice (Hilton ocean view and Fairmont Orchid oceanview), and to north shore of Oahu (Turtle Bay direct oceanfront condo within 20 yards walking to the beach). Yet, to me, Hawaii has never compared to the landscape and beaches of Mexico and Caribbean and it does not hold a candle to French Polynesia (Moorea, Bora Bora, Tahaa, and other islands of the Pacific, which we have visited multiple times).


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## brianfox

BocaBoy said:


> Do you seriously think that Ko Olina has better views and a better pool than Maui Ocean Club?  It is a great resort, but I think very few people would agree with that.  (We own at both resorts.)



Yup.  I  *seriously* do.  That's the cool thing about opinions, eh?   I'm right.  You're right.  We're all right.


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## Passepartout

Why don't people simply JOIN TUG and have access to the reviews instead of asking PAYING members? Of course, they could just Google it, or call their library's Reference Desk.

Oh, never mind. (ducking)


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## wilma

We like the Marriott Waiohai location, the onsite swimmable beach and the fact you can see the sunset from the resort grounds. The units are nice but as a trader getting a unit with a lagoon or resort view (only once years ago did we get an oceanview) and not the dreaded Brenneke's parking lot view is always a struggle. The Kauai/Lihue resort is not to our liking as it is highrise hotel and the beach is boring.


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## taterhed

Hankmoon said:


> Yes that is why the deals in Mexico are so much better for those of us who can tolerate the risk - and who know how to negotiate with the timeshare developers. The timeshare developers have offered me a job after I have bought from them - LOL!



WOW HANKMOON!!!!  This sound so fabulous. Tell me more.  How do I buy?

Will they salute me on their hearts too?

Oh joy.  I can sell my Awful Marriott and be treated like a KING in Mexico.  Or better yet, a KINGPIN.  or a CZAR.  Yes that's it, a CZAR.

Perhaps they will hire me too if I only sign up for Vidanta.  Hail Vidanta.


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## Hankmoon

taterhed said:


> WOW HANKMOON!!!!  This sound so fabulous. Tell me more.  How do I buy?
> 
> Will they salute me on their hearts too?
> 
> Oh joy.  I can sell my Awful Marriott and be treated like a KING in Mexico.  Or better yet, a KINGPIN.  or a CZAR.  Yes that's it, a CZAR.
> 
> Perhaps they will hire me too if I only sign up for Vidanta.  Hail Vidanta.
> View attachment 4962



I think you are funny! You are probably happy with your Marriott!

My advice to Vidanta has been to stop letting timeshare owners to exchange into the Grand Luxxe. It is cheapening the brand. A Marriott is equivalent to a Grand Mayan or Grand Bliss, not a Grand Luxxe.


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## taterhed

Yes, I am.

Frankly, I would like to exchange to Luxxe sometime....but I can never figure out what it is I might be getting.
Someday, I'll settle that out.

I'll make you a deal:  you exchange into an Ocean Front Maui Lahaina Tower 2br/3br during whale season and let me know what you think. 
Of course, I'm not sure you'll ever find one.

Someday, I'll hit the Luxxe or the other one with the private chef/butler and let you know my impression.  If I can convince my wife to head SOTB.

cheers.


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## Hankmoon

xx


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## Hankmoon

taterhed said:


> Yes, I am.
> 
> Frankly, I would like to exchange to Luxxe sometime....but I can never figure out what it is I might be getting.
> Someday, I'll settle that out.
> 
> I'll make you a deal:  you exchange into an Ocean Front Maui Lahaina Tower 2br/3br during whale season and let me know what you think.
> Of course, I'm not sure you'll ever find one.
> 
> Someday, I'll hit the Luxxe or the other one with the private chef/butler and let you know my impression.  If I can convince my wife to head SOTB.
> 
> cheers.



The Marriotts in Maui are available for sale on Expedia and TUG and elsewhere. I do not think we would stay at a Marriott in Maui anyway  Last time we were in Maui, we stayed at the Grand Wailea. If we go to Maui again, we were considering either Four Seasons or Fairmont Keo Lani. When we go to Hawaii, we always stay at a different resort or condo and it is always 4.5 - 5 star.

We do not do exchanges. We stay where we purchase to guarantee the quality. We would not buy a timeshare in a specific resort in Maui because then we would be stuck unless we did exchanges. We are not the type to ever rent out our timeshare either.

We like buying into vacation clubs, not timeshares, because you get a choice of many properties, even if it costs more.


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## VacationForever

Hankmoon said:


> We like buying into vacation clubs, not timeshares, because you get a choice of many properties, even if it costs more.



A timeshare by any other name is still a timeshare.


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## dagger1

Hankmoon said:


> I know this is a Hawaii forum but we have been to Hawaii and all the islands at least 8 times. We usually stay at 4 and 5 star resorts equivalent or better than the Marriotts. This year, we decided to explore Mexico and we have decided that Mexico blows Hawaii away for many reasons: better beaches (on Caribbean side), equivalent or better scenery in Puerto Vallarta, much more affordable on both sides, better restaurants, and much nicer resorts/facilities. The 4 and 5 star time shares and vacation clubs in Mexico are on the AAA 4 diamond and 5 diamond lists. They are simply amazing. We were going to buy a Marriott timeshare on TUG but we decided to buy a Grand Luxxe instead. We also own a 2 bedroom lock off with Occidental that allows us to travel all over Mexico as well as Aruba, Costa Rica, Dominican Republic and more and the quality of the First Club 2 bedrooms are better than the Marriotts because we are guaranteed an Ocean View and treated like royalty when we visit. I do not understand why the Mexican timeshares have such a bad reputation. I do know that Vidanta is rated #1 and Occidental is rated #2 as the top Mexican vacation clubs (timeshares). Occidental is the most incredible deal in my opinion since Barcelo bought them. We got so many perks and extra weeks, free days every year and special perks in our membership because we bought a 2 bedroom. We have the choice of 120 properties all over the world with one phone call. Grand Luxxe only has two locations (although Vidanta has 7 locations) but they are planning major expansion of the Grand Luxxe brand. The entry level price for Grand Luxxe is like buying a Marriott in Hawaii right now but you get 3 weeks a year and 2 weeks a year with their trading partner (to travel worldwide) with no mandatory fees. Plus a bunch of other perks. Also, with the trading partners, you can exchange a lower level Vidanta resort if you want or pay a lower exchange fee than a Marriott for trading purposes. The service at both of our Mexican clubs is out of this world as members. At the Marriotts, you are not treated special. It is a 4 star American corporation. At Vidanta, every employee puts their heart across their heart when they greet you, no matter what level resort you are staying at. It is a very nice tradition.


Opinions are great.  Living in Texas means Mexico is just a short flight away. We’ve stayed in both the Caribbean and the Pacific side, many resorts.  Most people don’t realize how HOT it is twelve months out of the year.  I mean stifling heat and humidity.  And how hard it is to get a legitimate drink there.  Even at the 5 Stars....  And the food.  Really??  The all inclusives are mostly mediocre to terrible.  There are a few decent restaurants, but very few and those are EXPENSIVE.  A friend just got back from a week trip to Cabo, they’ve been going for years.  He told me they are done, never again.  According to him Cabo has gotten extremely expensive.  Mexico compared to Hawaii....??  Really?


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## Hankmoon

dagger1 said:


> Opinions are great.  Living in Texas means Mexico is just a short flight away. We’ve stayed in both the Caribbean and the Pacific side, many resorts.  Most people don’t realize how HOT it is twelve months out of the year.  I mean stifling heat and humidity.  And how hard it is to get a legitimate drink there.  Even at the 5 Stars....  And the food.  Really??  The all inclusives are mostly mediocre to terrible.  There are a few decent restaurants, but very few and those are EXPENSIVE.  A friend just got back from a week trip to Cabo, they’ve been going for years.  He told me they are done, never again.  According to him Cabo has gotten extremely expensive.  Mexico compared to Hawaii....??  Really?



Which timeshares in Mexico? I heard the Iberostar is having contaminated alcohol problems. There are many bad timeshares in Mexico, I know. There are also many bad timeshares in the USA. The Manhattan Club just got in trouble for running a scam. In the USA and Hawaii, many of the timeshares are running very old properties and not well maintained.

I grew up in South Florida so the weather in Mexico and Caribbean is no different from Florida. Hawaii is also humid compared to Northern California, where we live now. I love the really hot weather on the Caribbean side of Mexico because I can swim in the water in the hot summer. I tend to be very cold and unless the water is 80+, I will not swim. Hawaii and the Pacific Coast are too cold for me usually. Also Hawaii and the Pacific Coast do not have clear water. I prefer the Caribbean side of Mexico and the islands of the Caribbean for swimming, scuba diving and water clarity. I also love French Polynesia for water clarity as well as their overwater bungalows. But there are no timeshares in French Polynesia (except one rundown timeshare in Moorea). We've been there twice but not on timeshare vacations. I must say, French Polynesia is one of our favorite places in the world.

For some reason, Hawaii just does not have clear calm waters. We were just on the north shore of Oahu and stayed in an oceanfront first floor condo in Turtle Bay. We were very disappointed by the lack of clear water. It was August so the water was as warm as it gets in Hawaii. There was no visibility.

We stopped by Marriott Ko Olina and did a timeshare tour, which was pleasant and no pressure at all. The rooms are very nice there but the resort has nothing to do and only two restaurants. There is very little nearby. Sales agents say it is the best Marriott of them all but situated on the wrong island. We had lunch there and it was okay but very expensive, as is everything in Hawaii.

My favorite timeshare resort in Hawaii is the Westin Princeville. We paid to stay there a few years ago and got an ocean view one bedroom for a very reasonable price - about $300 per night plus tax on Expedia. I really enjoyed it because there is a lot to do in Princeville and you get privileges to use the St Regis hotel's beach since it is part of the Westin. Princeville is gorgeous. The Westin is a step above the Marriott in quality.


----------



## taterhed

> @Hankmoon  said
> We like buying into vacation clubs, not timeshares, because you get a choice of many properties, even if it costs more.



Aaaaah.  The Vacation club rears it's ugly head again.
I think I smell a troll.  Again.

Enjoy your chat folks.  Bye Bye.


----------



## Hankmoon

I am not a troll. I am a full fledged member of TUG and a worldwide traveler. I have a lot of travel experience all over the world on all continents so I like to comment. It's fun! I am new to timeshares and frankly, I do not like most timeshares. I have been to Hawaii at least 7+ times! I work full time yet we travel at least 8 weeks a year out of the country/state and almost every weekend. We are active travelers! I would hope TUG members would value my opinion. If you don't like my opinion, just tune me out.

P.S. USA just stopped travel visas to Turkey. My other favorite place in the world is Istanbul. We stayed at the Ciragan Palace Kempinski on the Bosphorus River a few years ago and I must say it was truly one of the few real 5 star experiences of my life. Other hotels claim to be 5 stars but they are not. Turkey is amazing. It is so sad to me that Americans can no longer travel to Turkey.

I know this is a Hawaii forum but my point in I am not a troll and I hope my opinions will be valued since I have traveled extensively all over the world. I only have a few favorite places in the world. Very few are timeshares, yet I believe some timeshares are excellent.


----------



## dagger1

Hankmoon said:


> Which timeshares in Mexico? I heard the Iberostar is having contaminated alcohol problems. There are many bad timeshares in Mexico, I know. There are also many bad timeshares in the USA. The Manhattan Club just got in trouble for running a scam. In the USA and Hawaii, many of the timeshares are running very old properties and not well maintained.
> 
> I grew up in South Florida so the weather in Mexico and Caribbean is no different from Florida. Hawaii is also humid compared to Northern California, where we live now. I love the really hot weather on the Caribbean side of Mexico because I can swim in the water in the hot summer. I tend to be very cold and unless the water is 80+, I will not swim. Hawaii and the Pacific Coast are too cold for me usually. Also Hawaii and the Pacific Coast do not have clear water. I prefer the Caribbean side of Mexico and the islands of the Caribbean for swimming, scuba diving and water clarity. I also love French Polynesia for water clarity as well as their overwater bungalows. But there are no timeshares in French Polynesia (except one rundown timeshare in Moorea). We've been there twice but not on timeshare vacations. I must say, French Polynesia is one of our favorite places in the world.
> 
> For some reason, Hawaii just does not have clear calm waters. We were just on the north shore of Oahu and stayed in an oceanfront first floor condo in Turtle Bay. We were very disappointed by the lack of clear water. It was August so the water was as warm as it gets in Hawaii. There was no visibility.
> 
> We stopped by Marriott Ko Olina and did a timeshare tour, which was pleasant and no pressure at all. The rooms are very nice there but the resort has nothing to do and only two restaurants. There is very little nearby. Sales agents say it is the best Marriott of them all but situated on the wrong island. We had lunch there and it was okay but very expensive, as is everything in Hawaii.
> 
> My favorite timeshare resort in Hawaii is the Westin Princeville. We paid to stay there a few years ago and got an ocean view one bedroom for a very reasonable price - about $300 per night plus tax on Expedia. I really enjoyed it because there is a lot to do in Princeville and you get privileges to use the St Regis hotel's beach since it is part of the Westin. Princeville is gorgeous. The Westin is a step above the Marriott in quality.


Hard to name all of the Mexican resorts we have stayed at, but all of them served doctored Scotch.  Not necessarily poison, but diluted/doctored.  We live in Houston, so we know what heat and humidity are.  Cancun/Cozumel are unbearably hot and humid.  You either stay in the pool or water, or in your room.  
We find much more to do on Oahu than Cancun/Cozumel.  And the food is much better, and the liquor is legitimate.


----------



## Hankmoon

dagger1 said:


> Hard to name all of the Mexican resorts we have stayed at, but all of them served doctored Scotch.  Not necessarily poison, but diluted/doctored.  We live in Houston, so we know what heat and humidity are.  Cancun/Cozumel are unbearably hot and humid.  You either stay in the pool or water, or in your room.
> We find much more to do on Oahu than Cancun/Cozumel.  And the food is much better, and the liquor is legitimate.



Interesting. I have not had that experience in Mexico. I have had very positive experiences in Mexico with good food and drinks but we only stay in 4 - 5 star resorts. I have not found it to be that hot. To me, it is equivalent to Miami or San Diego. We were just in Oahu on the North Shore. We never went to Waikiki because that is not our style. We just stayed in Turtle Bay and did a sailing/snorkeling tour and a private horseback riding tour so we could trot and canter. Other than that, we watched the beach from the terrace of our ocean front condo and drank mai tais watching the sun set over the surfers. We decided we will never return to Oahu because it is too crowded for us. The North Shore was isolated in comparison to Waikiki but it was very dry. Oahu looks like it could use more rain.


----------



## dagger1

Hankmoon said:


> Interesting. I have not had that experience in Mexico. I have had very positive experiences in Mexico with good food and drinks but we only stay in 4 - 5 star resorts. I have not found it to be that hot. To me, it is equivalent to Miami or San Diego. We were just in Oahu on the North Shore. We never went to Waikiki because that is not our style. We just stayed in Turtle Bay and did a sailing/snorkeling tour and a private horseback riding tour so we could trot and canter. Other than that, we watched the beach from the terrace of our ocean front condo and drank mai tais watching the sun set over the surfers. We decided we will never return to Oahu because it is too crowded for us. The North Shore was isolated in comparison to Waikiki but it was very dry. Oahu looks like it could use more rain.


Turtle Bay is a nice resort, no doubt.  We enjoy Oahu because of the variety of beaches, things to do, and the occasional visit to Waikiki.  Surprised you haven’t experienced the heat/humidity in Mexico, it’s been miserable every time we’ve gone (except trips to Guadalajara, San Miguel, i.e. the mountains.). We probably won’t return to Mexico because there’s nothing to do there but hang out at the pool, go to the beach, and eat tasteless food and drink weak, diluted drinks.  Maybe if we were divers we go back to Cozumel, that’s a quick dive destination from Houston.  I think the Caribbean is calling....


----------



## Hankmoon

dagger1 said:


> Turtle Bay is a nice resort, no doubt.  We enjoy Oahu because of the variety of beaches, things to do, and the occasional visit to Waikiki.  Surprised you haven’t experienced the heat/humidity in Mexico, it’s been miserable every time we’ve gone (except trips to Guadalajara, San Miguel, i.e. the mountains.). We probably won’t return to Mexico because there’s nothing to do there but hang out at the pool, go to the beach, and eat tasteless food and drink weak, diluted drinks.  Maybe if we were divers we go back to Cozumel, that’s a quick dive destination from Houston.  I think the Caribbean is calling....



I have experienced the heat and humidity of Mexico but being from Miami, it is no different. Plus I like the warm water so I prefer to visit Mexico and the Caribbean in May, June and early July before hurricane season. This is when it is warmest and most humid but the ocean is also warmest and I can swim and scuba dive without a wet suit. The heat and humidity in Mexico on the beaches is no different than the Caribbean islands. I do agree that Hawaii is a less humid and hot than Mexico but the water is also cooler and less clear than the Caribbean side of Mexico and the Caribbean islands. The color of the water at the North Beach at Isla de las Mujeres was the same clear green as in Bora Bora, believe it or not.


----------



## Dean

Hankmoon said:


> I am not a troll. I am a full fledged member of TUG and a worldwide traveler. I have a lot of travel experience all over the world on all continents so I like to comment. It's fun! I am new to timeshares and frankly, I do not like most timeshares. I have been to Hawaii at least 7+ times! I work full time yet we travel at least 8 weeks a year out of the country/state and almost every weekend. We are active travelers! I would hope TUG members would value my opinion. If you don't like my opinion, just tune me out.
> 
> P.S. USA just stopped travel visas to Turkey. My other favorite place in the world is Istanbul. We stayed at the Ciragan Palace Kempinski on the Bosphorus River a few years ago and I must say it was truly one of the few real 5 star experiences of my life. Other hotels claim to be 5 stars but they are not. Turkey is amazing. It is so sad to me that Americans can no longer travel to Turkey.
> 
> I know this is a Hawaii forum but my point in I am not a troll and I hope my opinions will be valued since I have traveled extensively all over the world. I only have a few favorite places in the world. Very few are timeshares, yet I believe some timeshares are excellent.


I'm not picking on you but let me say that you sound like someone new to timesharing.  Further you sound like someone that's fairly new to timesharing, went to a sales tour and bought retail and believed much of what you were told by the sales staff.  The amount of knowledge and experience here is amazing but anything you can bring to the table that's extra would be a great addition.  I've been in timesharing for 20 years, travel almost as much as you over a number of timeshares and timeshare systems though my experiences are more US, MX and Caribbean based.  Others here have a different knowledge base, often that's more than mine in many areas and likely less in some areas.  And we all bring different expectations and personal situations.  Timesharing in general and TUG specifically is a bit of a community.  Members are quite commonly willing to go out of their way to help others, esp others within the community or thinking of joining.  

Previously you mentioned exchange restrictions and it seems you believe them to be good for the members.  Exchange restrictions are only aimed at and good for the developer/retail sales and either hurt the members or are at best neutral.  Based on your stated travel accommodation expectations, I think most everyone here would have suggested you not buy a timeshare at all.  Few timeshares will meet your expectations and it's likely even those that do now won't over time.  And the likely expense to play in that circle will be dramatic long term.  Most of us are OK with a limited amount of obligate compromise within timeshares up to a point like no housekeeping.  And most of us are interested in savings and added value.  In general timeshare people are either more resort or more location driven though on a continuum.  Clearly you're a resort person, most aren't quite as far to the resort side as you are.  I'd venture to say that for someone who feels the purpose built HI Marriott's (as an example) are not up to their resorts standards likely should not plan on traveling using timeshares because they are setting themselves up for disappointment.  MX has a lot of great resorts that are easy to exchange into and have very low trade power for a reason.


----------



## Hankmoon

Dean said:


> I'm not picking on you but let me say that you sound like someone new to timesharing.  Further you sound like someone that's fairly new to timesharing, went to a sales tour and bought retail and believed much of what you were told by the sales staff.  The amount of knowledge and experience here is amazing but anything you can bring to the table that's extra would be a great addition.  I've been in timesharing for 20 years, travel almost as much as you over a number of timeshares and timeshare systems though my experiences are more US, MX and Caribbean based.  Others here have a different knowledge base, often that's more than mine in many areas and likely less in some areas.  And we all bring different expectations and personal situations.  Timesharing in general and TUG specifically is a bit of a community.  Members are quite commonly willing to go out of their way to help others, esp others within the community or thinking of joining.
> 
> Previously you mentioned exchange restrictions and it seems you believe them to be good for the members.  Exchange restrictions are only aimed at and good for the developer/retail sales and either hurt the members or are at best neutral.  Based on your stated travel accommodation expectations, I think most everyone here would have suggested you not buy a timeshare at all.  Few timeshares will meet your expectations and it's likely even those that do now won't over time.  And the likely expense to play in that circle will be dramatic long term.  Most of us are OK with a limited amount of obligate compromise within timeshares up to a point like no housekeeping.  And most of us are interested in savings and added value.  In general timeshare people are either more resort or more location driven though on a continuum.  Clearly you're a resort person, most aren't quite as far to the resort side as you are.  I'd venture to say that for someone who feels the purpose built HI Marriott's (as an example) are not up to their resorts standards likely should not plan on traveling using timeshares because they are setting themselves up for disappointment.  MX has a lot of great resorts that are easy to exchange into and have very low trade power for a reason.



Yes I agree with you. I am not a traditional timeshare person and I am new to timesharing. I do not like the quality of most timeshares and do not exchange. I am an RCI and SFX member but will not exchange. I will occasionally purchase through a sale if something I like comes up. Yes, you are correct we have purchased our timeshares from the developers. We tried twice to purchase through TUG and we got burned the first time by the seller who lied to us. The second time, we came close to buying a Marriott trader but then decided buying to exchange would not be a fit for me since I would not be happy with the exchanging process. Plus, in the end, Marriott maintenance fees are not that cheap. You do save a little on the upfront fees by buying resale, but you do not save anything after that and you do not get any developer perks on the resale market.

The problem with buying a Marriott or Westin in Hawaii on the resale market if you want ocean view is you have to pay about $10,000+ and there are high MFs annually and can only go to that one specific resort. If you exchange, anything you exchange for is worth less. I know you can usually get the extra coupon for an extra free week but it must be used within a year and it has restrictions, I have heard.

I think buying a specific resort on the resale market is perfect for someone who has identified their favorite place and they want to visit it again and again. I think buying a trader is perfect for someone who is flexible and does not care so much about what resort or place they go. Traders are perfect for value oriented travelers.

I think exchange restrictions are good for those of us who paid a lot of money to buy into an expensive vacation clubs. I think exchanging should be "like for like." That is generally the policy of the exchange companies.


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## dagger1

As you say above, we bought fixed week/units at Hyatt Wild Oak Ranch (San Antonio) and Hyatt Mainstreet Station (Breckenridge) because we want to go to these resorts every year at the same time with kids/grandkids.  And we like Hyatt quality.  We bought Marriott in Oahu because we want to go EOY, wanted OV.  We have Wyndham points for the various locations (such as Flagstaff, Sedona, Durango, Pagosa Springs, Taos, San Antonio Riverwalk, New Orleans, Orlando, Washington DC, etc.) that we like to go to occasionally but at varied times.  We sacrifice Hyatt/Westin/Marriott quality with Wyndham, but like the locations.  We would never buy a TS in Mexico, because the all inclusive packages out of Houston (including air fare) are so cheap:  sometimes less than $100/night/person (flight, food and room.). But as I said before, poor food, weak/doctored/fake drinks, and basically nothing to do there.
All of our Hyatt/Marriott/Wyndham TS provide us 2 or 3 BR units (w/kitchen) for less than we use to pay for one hotel room, which is extremely cost effective (and time effective, no waiting in lines for every meal, etc.) when traveling with family/friends. 
We purchased all of these TS resale thanks to TUG, so we have a very small “investment” in all of these TS’s.  We are exactly the perfect TS Owners you described above.


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## taterhed

Well, I decided to reply against my better judgment.

I value the opinions of other Tuggers.  I mean no personal offense to you.
If all that you have posted here is truly your opinion and not just another timeshare presentation for Vidanta, then you're entitled to your opinions. 
I certainly do not agree with most of your statements, and I won't attack the Mexican violence/political situation in this forum.  It's in the news; enough said.
As a matter of fact, I hope to visit the Luxxe or one of the similar high-end units, they look nice.

As for your remarks about Vidanta....   You said it best:  'they offered me a job...'  and it sounds like you accepted.  The misleading promises and promotions made by timeshare sales staff everywhere (not just SOTB) are the stuff of legends. Unlimited use of 5 star resorts...  No mandatory fees,  free upgrades, exchange anywhere anytime anyplace with just one phone call.....  All the stuff of dreams and nonsense. Not all your words, but they've often been repeated here and elsewhere.  My friends recently bought into one such "Vacation Club" in Mexico.  Call it what it really is:  Timeshare.  I didn't have the heart to explain to them that what they purchased is now worth ZERO dollars or pesos and could have been achieved for much less money--or no money at all except for actual usage fees.  Promises, promises.

So, let me summarize.

You post in the "US Hawaii Timesharing" forum:  Which Marriott is best?
You then proceed to denigrate ALL US timeshares and specifically those in Hawaii...with a very special shout-out to Marriott and Maui and Oahu.
You then profess your complete contempt for most timeshares and the exchange process and ownership and, well, you get the picture

You then proceed to exorbitantly praise Mexican resorts...again, with a very special shout-out to Vidanta, Vidanta, Vidanta.  It sounds like a stockholders meeting.
You then extoll the virtues of "Vacation Clubs"   Otherwise known as  _*TIMESHARES*_ 
You then extoll the virtues of "Trading Partners" and 'one phone call' reservations anywhere in the world.  Otherwise known as _*EXCHANGING*_

Finally, your comments about the many perks and gifts and free hotel rooms for 25 years and  royal treatment from the local 'hands over hearts club' (that's a bit creepy for me) is straight from the salesman's lips. Or Salesperson or staff or whatever.   I hope it works out for you....many have discovered the hype and hoopla to be nothing more than that.

Perhaps you should shift your posting to the Mexican Timesharing thread, maybe your words will land on more fertile ground.

I've gotten quite a chuckle from reading your comments. Now perhaps it's time to head to the turquoise waters of the Baja or Yucatan or where ever you may find them in the global empire that is Vidanta
(insert evil empire music here, roll credits)


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## VacationForever

Hankmoon said:


> I think exchange restrictions are good for those of us who paid a lot of money to buy into an expensive high-end 5 star residence club like Grand Luxxe. I think exchanging should be "like for like." That is generally the policy of the exchange companies. Unfortunately, Grand Luxxe is making some mistakes right now and dumping too much inventory into the exchanges to try to make membership sales. Grand Luxxe owners are angry at Vidanta for doing this and trying to get them to stop.



I think you will learn very quickly that people who paid alot of money to the developers can get the same product, minus a few perks, in the resale market as well as through exchanges.  As an owner who bought from the developer, you hate to see the expensive product that you paid for can be found for an exchange fees by owners of other products.  

Developers have to drop inventory into exchange companies because 1) developers are holding on to too much unsold inventory and those can become money generator when potential buyers picked up these exchanges 2) owners want to exchange into something else.


----------



## Hankmoon

taterhed said:


> Well, I decided to reply against my better judgment.
> 
> I value the opinions of other Tuggers.  I mean no personal offense to you.
> If all that you have posted here is truly your opinion and not just another timeshare presentation for Vidanta, then you're entitled to your opinions.
> I certainly do not agree with most of your statements, and I won't attack the Mexican violence/political situation in this forum.  It's in the news; enough said.
> As a matter of fact, I hope to visit the Luxxe or one of the similar high-end units, they look nice.
> 
> As for your remarks about Vidanta....   You said it best:  'they offered me a job...'  and it sounds like you accepted.  The misleading promises and promotions made by timeshare sales staff everywhere (not just SOTB) are the stuff of legends. Unlimited use of 5 star resorts...  No mandatory fees,  free upgrades, exchange anywhere anytime anyplace with just one phone call.....  All the stuff of dreams and nonsense. Not all your words, but they've often been repeated here and elsewhere.  My friends recently bought into one such "Vacation Club" in Mexico.  Call it what it really is:  Timeshare.  I didn't have the heart to explain to them that what they purchased is now worth ZERO dollars or pesos and could have been achieved for much less money--or no money at all except for actual usage fees.  Promises, promises.
> 
> So, let me summarize.
> 
> You post in the "US Hawaii Timesharing" forum:  Which Marriott is best?
> You then proceed to denigrate ALL US timeshares and specifically those in Hawaii...with a very special shout-out to Marriott and Maui and Oahu.
> You then profess your complete contempt for most timeshares and the exchange process and ownership and, well, you get the picture
> 
> You then proceed to exorbitantly praise Mexican resorts...again, with a very special shout-out to Vidanta, Vidanta, Vidanta.  It sounds like a stockholders meeting.
> You then extoll the virtues of "Vacation Clubs"   Otherwise known as  _*TIMESHARES*_
> You then extoll the virtues of "Trading Partners" and 'one phone call' reservations anywhere in the world.  Otherwise known as _*EXCHANGING*_
> 
> Finally, your comments about the many perks and gifts and free hotel rooms for 25 years and  royal treatment from the local 'hands over hearts club' (that's a bit creepy for me) is straight from the salesman's lips. Or Salesperson or staff or whatever.   I hope it works out for you....many have discovered the hype and hoopla to be nothing more than that.
> 
> Perhaps you should shift your posting to the Mexican Timesharing thread, maybe your words will land on more fertile ground.
> 
> I've gotten quite a chuckle from reading your comments. Now perhaps it's time to head to the turquoise waters of the Baja or Yucatan or where ever you may find them in the global empire that is Vidanta
> (insert evil empire music here, roll credits)



I was joking about the job. I would never work for a timeshare company! They do have sleazy sales tactics. I agree with you. I went back and edited out as many of the Vidanta comments as I could so I don't sound like a promoter. Unfortunately, it was too late to edit some of my earlier posts. (The perks I received were true but I took it out since no one believes me. I will keep it as my secret.)

I still do think Hawaii is over-rated and expensive for what you get. I think French Polynesia (Bora Bora, Moorea, Tahaa, Tahiti) is a better value for the money than Hawaii and much more beautiful - overwater bungalows, clear water, less crowded, exotic culture, good food, etc. On RCI, folks can exchange or purchase a week on a Tradewinds cruise in Tahiti. I would highly recommend exchanging or trading for something in French Polynesia. We will one day do the Tradewinds cruise of French Polynesia. On the exchanges, the Tradewinds cruise is the only resort of quality in French Polynesia that I have seen so far. However, there are other places to stay in French Polynesia if one is not too picky. There is a place in Moorea that is a timeshare that is very basic in quality and it's in an excellent location that folks could exchange for.


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## taterhed

Oh, please don't edit your posts based on my postings.
I really enjoy seeing the 'that was then....this is now' version of the postings.

Also, I agree that much of HI is overbuilt, touristy and has a high occupancy, thus wear. (I'm talking to you Oahu) 
Yes, the islands a 'little' bit further west in the pond are certainly nice, but it's not practical for some of us east-coasters to dawdle in Bora Bora etc...

Anyway...my Falcon 2000 F2K timeshare jet is in the shop this month and I don't think Southwest is announcing service from Burbank to Fa'a'ā International anytime soon.  So for now, I'll just have to make do with Ka'anapali beach. 

Peace be unto you...


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## melissy123

Hankmoon said:


> Interesting. I have not had that experience in Mexico. I have had very positive experiences in Mexico with good food and drinks but we only stay in 4 - 5 star resorts. I have not found it to be that hot. To me, it is equivalent to Miami or San Diego. We were just in Oahu on the North Shore. We never went to Waikiki because that is not our style. We just stayed in Turtle Bay and did a sailing/snorkeling tour and a private horseback riding tour so we could trot and canter. Other than that, we watched the beach from the terrace of our ocean front condo and drank mai tais watching the sun set over the surfers. We decided we will never return to Oahu because it is too crowded for us. The North Shore was isolated in comparison to Waikiki but it was very dry. Oahu looks like it could use more rain.



IMHO, the weather in the Riviera Maya is not the same as San Diego.  and that's coming from someone who lives in San Diego.  Maybe we get close to the same temperature during a rare day in the Summer, but not nowhere near the same humidity.  
But getting back to the subject: favorite Marriott TS in Hawaii?  The Marriott Maui Ocean Club!


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## Hankmoon

melissy123 said:


> IMHO, the weather in the Riviera Maya is not the same as San Diego.  and that's coming from someone who lives in San Diego.  Maybe we get close to the same temperature during a rare day in the Summer, but not nowhere near the same humidity.
> But getting back to the subject: favorite Marriott TS in Hawaii?  The Marriott Maui Ocean Club!



Riviera Maya is identical to Miami, where I have lived. I do not know San Diego so I should not have commented. I live in Northern California. No humidity up here.


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## dagger1

Hankmoon said:


> Riviera Maya is identical to Miami, where I have lived. I do not know San Diego so I should not have commented. I live in Northern California. No humidity up here.


We will just have to agree to disagree on the assertion that the weather in “Riviera Maya is identical to Miami...”. The weather on Mexican coasts is unbearably hot and humid, much more so than on the Gulf Coast or the Atlantic Coast.  It is oppressively hot and humid, down there, and I am used to heat and humidity living in Houston.  And good luck finding air conditioning anywhere but your room or some (not all) of the restaurants.  IMHO.


----------



## Hankmoon

dagger1 said:


> We will just have to agree to disagree on the assertion that the weather in “Riviera Maya is identical to Miami...”. The weather on Mexican coasts is unbearably hot and humid, much more so than on the Gulf Coast or the Atlantic Coast.  It is oppressively hot and humid, down there, and I am used to heat and humidity living in Houston.  And good luck finding air conditioning anywhere but your room or some (not all) of the restaurants.  IMHO.



I lived in Miami until I was 22 and from age 30-34. My family still lives in South Florida. The weather on Caribbean side of Mexico is identical to coastal Miami. Inland is a different story. But so is inland in Miami. Much hotter too. Sacramento, CA is 109 all summer! It feels like a sauna. Riviera Maya is like an air conditioner compared to that. Being from Miami, I do not understand the obsession with hot weather. I can tolerate hot humid weather, no problem for me. In the San Francisco Bay Area this summer, we had a few days of 109 weather and most people have no AC here either. People were freaking out like children. Summers in Northern California are getting warmer and warmer and most homes have no AC because they are so old and were built when CA used to be cool in summers. Global warming is here to stay.

Here are the average low and high temperatures per month (in Fahrenheit) in Riviera Maya:
January – 61/82
February – 62/86
March – 64/88
April – 66/89
May – 71/93
June – 73/90
July – 72/90
August – 72/90
September – 70/89
October – 68/88
November – 64/84
December – 64/84

Here's Maui by month:

Average Maui temperatures
High °F    Low °F      
79    65    January
79    65    February
80    65    March
81    67    April
82    68    May
84    70    June
85    71    July
86    72    August
86    71    September
85    70    October
82    69    November
80    67    December

It's not that different. Basically, to each his own, as the saying goes. Frankly, I say let's visit both!


----------



## Dean

Hankmoon said:


> Yes I agree with you. I am not a traditional timeshare person and I am new to timesharing. I do not like the quality of most timeshares and do not exchange. I am an RCI and SFX member but will not exchange. I will occasionally purchase through a sale if something I like comes up. Yes, you are correct we have purchased our timeshares from the developers. We tried twice to purchase through TUG and we got burned the first time by the seller who lied to us. The second time, we came close to buying a Marriott trader but then decided buying to exchange would not be a fit for me since I would not be happy with the exchanging process. Plus, in the end, Marriott maintenance fees are not that cheap. You do save a little on the upfront fees by buying resale, but you do not save anything after that and you do not get any developer perks on the resale market.
> 
> The problem with buying a Marriott or Westin in Hawaii on the resale market if you want ocean view is you have to pay about $10,000+ and there are high MFs annually and can only go to that one specific resort. If you exchange, anything you exchange for is worth less. I know you can usually get the extra coupon for an extra free week but it must be used within a year and it has restrictions, I have heard.
> 
> I think buying a specific resort on the resale market is perfect for someone who has identified their favorite place and they want to visit it again and again. I think buying a trader is perfect for someone who is flexible and does not care so much about what resort or place they go. Traders are perfect for value oriented travelers.
> 
> I think exchange restrictions are good for those of us who paid a lot of money to buy into an expensive vacation clubs. I think exchanging should be "like for like." That is generally the policy of the exchange companies.


You're kidding yourself on the exchange restrictions, you get nothing for it unless you consider that those exchanging in repeatedly are of a lower class you want to avoid.  The only way it helps the owners is if no exchanging is allowed or only internally.  Exchangers are fresh meat for sales which is the specific reason for exchange restrictions, nothing more.  I haven't followed the product you quote but the last I heard, even owners there were restricted from exchanging in.  IIRC the transfer fees are high for the type you are referencing, this is done simply to discourage privates sales and push buyers to retail, it worked with you it appears.  What happens when you have a bad trip and the rose colored glasses are removed?

Certainly anytime you own a high end/high demand timeshare you are almost always trading down when you exchange, that's part of the understanding of the product one should have going in.  I would agree that for high end options one should normally own if they want to be guaranteed and there is a price to those "guarantees".  Personally I do both, own higher end where we want to stay and exchange.  I have a hybrid of options that work well for both, I haven't had to make a choice between one or the other, I've done both successfully and to full advantage.  But that takes volume, I have that luxury as well.  I have Bluegreen, Marriott, DVC and Wyndham (small) and I find each has it's advantages and disadvantages but they all work well for our situation in their own way.


----------



## dagger1

Hankmoon said:


> I lived in Miami until I was 22 and from age 30-34. My family still lives in South Florida. The weather on Caribbean side of Mexico is identical to coastal Miami. Inland is a different story. But so is inland in Miami. Much hotter too. Sacramento, CA is 109 all summer! It feels like a sauna. Riviera Maya is like an air conditioner compared to that. Being from Miami, I do not understand the obsession with hot weather. I can tolerate hot humid weather, no problem for me. In the San Francisco Bay Area this summer, we had a few days of 109 weather and most people have no AC here either. People were freaking out like children. Summers in Northern California are getting warmer and warmer and most homes have no AC because they are so old and were built when CA used to be cool in summers. Global warming is here to stay.
> 
> Here are the average low and high temperatures per month (in Fahrenheit) in Riviera Maya:
> January – 61/82
> February – 62/86
> March – 64/88
> April – 66/89
> May – 71/93
> June – 73/90
> July – 72/90
> August – 72/90
> September – 70/89
> October – 68/88
> November – 64/84
> December – 64/84
> 
> Here's Maui by month:
> 
> Average Maui temperatures
> High °F    Low °F
> 79    65    January
> 79    65    February
> 80    65    March
> 81    67    April
> 82    68    May
> 84    70    June
> 85    71    July
> 86    72    August
> 86    71    September
> 85    70    October
> 82    69    November
> 80    67    December
> 
> It's not that different. Basically, to each his own, as the saying goes. Frankly, I say let's visit both!


Maybe it’s just been the twenty plus times I have been to Mexico.  But every one of those times it has been unbearable, especially the humidity.  I have lived in Houston since the 1950’s, I know humidity as well.  Miami is on the Atlantic, not the Gulf, but I’m sure it gets hot/humid there.  But the Texas Gulf Coast gets extremely hot and humid as well.  The most unbearable place I’ve been heat/humidity was the Persian/Arabian Gulf.  Second was Mexico.  Hawaii can get hot and humid, but nothing like Mexico.  I love Hawaii, as I have said, but kinda done with Mexico...


----------



## Hankmoon

Dean said:


> You're kidding yourself on the exchange restrictions, you get nothing for it unless you consider that those exchanging in repeatedly are of a lower class you want to avoid.  The only way it helps the owners is if no exchanging is allowed or only internally.  Exchangers are fresh meat for sales which is the specific reason for exchange restrictions, nothing more.  I haven't followed the product you quote but the last I heard, even owners there were restricted from exchanging in.  IIRC the transfer fees are high for the type you are referencing, this is done simply to discourage privates sales and push buyers to retail, it worked with you it appears.  What happens when you have a bad trip and the rose colored glasses are removed?
> 
> Certainly anytime you own a high end/high demand timeshare you are almost always trading down when you exchange, that's part of the understanding of the product one should have going in.  I would agree that for high end options one should normally own if they want to be guaranteed and there is a price to those "guarantees".  Personally I do both, own higher end where we want to stay and exchange.  I have a hybrid of options that work well for both, I haven't had to make a choice between one or the other, I've done both successfully and to full advantage.  But that takes volume, I have that luxury as well.  I have Bluegreen, Marriott, DVC and Wyndham (small) and I find each has it's advantages and disadvantages but they all work well for our situation in their own way.



Yes, I agree with you. Yes, they use exchangers as fresh meat for membership sales. That is completely true. I always tell folks who go to say no to presentations. They give me certificates for discounted visits and I warn my friends to say no to presentations. I am a sucker for presentations, I agree! I just love new stuff. I grew up in the swamp in Florida, what more can I say.


----------



## Hankmoon

dagger1 said:


> Maybe it’s just been the twenty plus times I have been to Mexico.  But every one of those times it has been unbearable, especially the humidity.  I have lived in Houston since the 1950’s, I know humidity as well.  Miami is on the Atlantic, not the Gulf, but I’m sure it gets hot/humid there.  But the Texas Gulf Coast gets extremely hot and humid as well.  The most unbearable place I’ve been heat/humidity was the Persian/Arabian Gulf.  Second was Mexico.  Hawaii can get hot and humid, but nothing like Mexico.  I love Hawaii, as I have said, but kinda done with Mexico...



Miami is unbearably hot most of the year. Probably like Houston but maybe worse. My spouse, who is from Montana, can't stand going to Miami with me. Initially my wife would only go to Hawaii so we went every year in the first 6 years of marriage. Then I said I am done with Hawaii. We had one trip to St John together and she said she would never go to the Caribbean again because we had airline connection problems. Then we switched to French Polynesia (and I dragged her there kicking and screaming too) but she did fall in love with French Polynesia so I got two trips out of that. I had to trick her into going to Cozumel last May after 11 years of marriage and I did that by offering her a Oahu deal at the end of the summer. She finally admitted the Caribbean waters are clearer than Hawaiian waters. But I am not sure if she would really prefer to go back to Hawaii - Kauai is her favorite island. She is very conservative and risk averse.


----------



## Dean

Hankmoon said:


> It's not that different. Basically, to each his own, as the saying goes. Frankly, I say let's visit both!


We live in FL so we're accustomed to heat somewhat.  Kaanapali is around 10 deg lower during the summer time both in average and in max temp compared to Riviera May.  http://www.hiddencancun.com/mexico-info/cancun-weather/ and http://www.areavibes.com/kaanapali-hi/weather/ and HI has far more consistent winds that make it feel cooler still.  IMO that is a BIG difference but YMMV.



> I think exchange restrictions are good for those of us who paid a lot of money to buy into an expensive vacation clubs. I think exchanging should be "like for like." That is generally the policy of the exchange companies.


I wanted to go back to this point.  It's actually somewhat true for II but not for RCI related to resort quality, they simply use the TPU system on the weeks side and the number of points assigned/cost on the RCI points side.  And it's really only true for SFX related to whether they'll take the deposit, not how they segregate deposits from what I understand.  II does put emphasis on "like for like" within a range which can be good or bad.  It keeps you from exchanging to a number of properties so if you're educated and investigate possible exchange options, it doesn't add anything and removes options.  It does tend to protect the uneducated from exchanging to something too far off the ratings of the resort deposited.  Last I heard II uses their internal resort ratings to determine the range they allow but it's been a while since I've had any direct information so that could have changed.  And it doesn't do anything to help the resort one owns or those that don't exchange routinely just like exchange restrictions don't.


----------



## Hankmoon

So back to the original goal of this post...

Marriott Ko Olina is a beautiful resort. However, it is very dry all around the resort so the island views are not that beautiful. There are empty lots on both sides of the resort. Marriott said a new hotel is being developed on the right side and that will block a lot of the ocean views. On the left, we were told a shopping mall is being put in. That might be good since there is little to do out there. Oahu has a very run down look. It does not feel like Hawaii to me. It was my first trip to Oahu in September. The airport felt like JFK - big and crowded. I am used to the smaller Hawaiian airports on the other islands. My wife, who loves Hawaii, decided she does not want to return to Oahu. However, I am sure I could twist her arm if we got a good deal to stay at the Marriott Ko Olina. But I would say it is only worth staying there if you get a guaranteed ocean view. The Marriott Ko Olina rooms with an ocean view are stunning. 

We have also been to the Marriott Waiohai Beach Club. The Poipu beach is great. The hotel is set back so hard to get an ocean view. I would not recommend the other Marriotts on Kauai because of their location near the airport. The best place to stay in Kauai is either Poipu or Princeville. We have stayed at the Westin Princeville. It is fabulous and the Westin Princeville also gives you use of the St Regis Princeville beach since Westin owns it.

We have not stayed in the Marriott Maui Ocean Club but we have been to Maui several times. We prefer Kauai over Maui because it is a more beautiful island. Kaanapali is the older part of Maui and the nicer, newer resorts tend to be in Wailea but I do not believe there are any timeshares on Wailea.

For location, I would choose Marriott Waiohai on Kauai. For the resort room layout, resort quality and ocean views, I would choose Marriott Ko Olina. 

I have not been to Marriott Maui Ocean Club but even without having been there I hesitate for a few reasons: 1) it is an older resort converted from a hotel to a timeshare, 2) no full kitchen 3) Kaanapali not as nice as Wailea area. I have read the Lahaina and Napili Towers are newer, were built as a timeshare and do have full kitchens so perhaps those might be better.


----------



## Hankmoon

Okay, guys, my love affair with Mexican timeshares is dying a quick death. I just had a bad experience with Occidental Vacation Club this week. I went to book my first usage of my 2 bedroom and to my surprise, the room they showed me at the sales presentation is not the quality of room I purchased! Shame on me! I feel like an idiot. I bought a First Club membership and they showed me a Grand Level room but did not tell us it was a Grand Level room and that is a different category of membership. However, I got a letter from the Membership Director guaranteeing that we would get an ocean view, since that is critical to me. Now they are not honoring the letter!!! So I have escalated my problem to management. I will find out next week if they will resolve this or not. More to come next week. Dumb, dumb, dumb me! Well, if this one turns out to be a loser timeshare, no biggie. I knew it was not the most high end resort, 3.5 to 4 star at most. But I had no idea they were liars - just like I read on TUG posts. They did the bait and switch on us. I do have all the evidence so I submitted it to their management and they are investigating. I hope they fire the entire sales team. In Mexico, if they get complaints like this, everyone gets fired. I will also report it to the Mexican government. Mexico is trying to regulate these abuses. It is hard. I just hope my case gets resolved in a satisfactory manner. I would prefer to remain a member and not lose my money. We will dump it if this is not resolved in a satisfactory way out of principle.


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## VacationForever

Hankmoon said:


> Okay, guys, my love affair with Mexican timeshares is dying a quick death. I just had a bad experience with Occidental Vacation Club this week. I went to book my first usage of my 2 bedroom and to my surprise, the room they showed me at the sales presentation is not the quality of room I purchased! Shame on me! I feel like an idiot. I bought a First Club membership and they showed me a Grand Level room but did not tell us it was a Grand Level room and that is a different category of membership. However, I got a letter from the Membership Director guaranteeing that we would get an ocean view, since that is critical to me. Now they are not honoring the letter!!! So I have escalated my problem to management. I will find out next week if they will resolve this or not. More to come next week. Dumb, dumb, dumb me! Well, if this one turns out to be a loser timeshare, no biggie. I knew it was not the most high end resort, 3.5 to 4 star at most. But I had no idea they were liars - just like I read on TUG posts. They did the bait and switch on us. I do have all the evidence so I submitted it to their management and they are investigating. I hope they fire the entire sales team. In Mexico, if they get complaints like this, everyone gets fired. I will also report it to the Mexican government. Mexico is trying to regulate these abuses. It is hard. I just hope my case gets resolved in a satisfactory manner. I would prefer to remain a member and not lose my investment. We will dump it if this is not resolved in a satisfactory way out of principle.


Sorry that you are encountering issues.  The conventional wisdom here is be leary of Mexico developer timeshare systems.  They are great to exchange into, just do not buy into them.  Their sales tactic is often fraudulent and filled with lies. It is also very difficult to sell. Some of the resort systems there levy a transfer fee equal to 10% of original sales price.

You used the word investment.  Timeshares are never investments in the financial sense.  It is an investment for pleasure and relaxation.


----------



## Hankmoon

VacationForever said:


> Sorry that you are encountering issues.  The conventional wisdom here is be leary of Mexico developer timeshare systems.  They are great to exchange into, just do not buy into them.  Their sales tactic is often fraudulent and filled with lies. It is also very difficult to sell. Some of the resort systems there levy a transfer fee equal to 10% of original sales price.
> 
> You used the word investment.  Timeshares are never investments in the financial sense.  It is an investment for pleasure and relaxation.



Yes, I agree, not an investment. I changed the word to money. A timeshare is just money thrown away but hopefully creating some good memories.


----------



## Dean

Hankmoon said:


> Okay, guys, my love affair with Mexican timeshares is dying a quick death. I just had a bad experience with Occidental Vacation Club this week. I went to book my first usage of my 2 bedroom and to my surprise, the room they showed me at the sales presentation is not the quality of room I purchased! Shame on me! I feel like an idiot. I bought a First Club membership and they showed me a Grand Level room but did not tell us it was a Grand Level room and that is a different category of membership. However, I got a letter from the Membership Director guaranteeing that we would get an ocean view, since that is critical to me. Now they are not honoring the letter!!! So I have escalated my problem to management. I will find out next week if they will resolve this or not. More to come next week. Dumb, dumb, dumb me! Well, if this one turns out to be a loser timeshare, no biggie. I knew it was not the most high end resort, 3.5 to 4 star at most. But I had no idea they were liars - just like I read on TUG posts. They did the bait and switch on us. I do have all the evidence so I submitted it to their management and they are investigating. I hope they fire the entire sales team. In Mexico, if they get complaints like this, everyone gets fired. I will also report it to the Mexican government. Mexico is trying to regulate these abuses. It is hard. I just hope my case gets resolved in a satisfactory manner. I would prefer to remain a member and not lose my money. We will dump it if this is not resolved in a satisfactory way out of principle.


With few exceptions, this is true of most timeshare developers but MX in general and many companies tend to be that way as well though more some than others.  I will predict you will get nowhere with their management or at best they may throw you a bone and move you to a better view but you'll likely have to do it all over again next time.  You've learned some valuable lessons that will help you going forward in timesharing.  One bottom line is to investigate independently and not take the word of the sales people plus spend your time doing so.  ASAMOF, if you assume the sale staff are lying when their lips are moving, you'll be far closer to reality than anything else.  There are extremely few situations where buying retail, or even resale from the developer, is a good choice for the individual.  Many, if not most here, started with a developer purchase that was a poor choice itself.  And I got the impressions you might not be completely happy with some of the resorts that most here would be thrilled with like Ko Olina or Maui Marriott's.  While I don't think you said so, I also got the sense you might be frustrated if you couldn't get the reservation you wanted.

The one thing I'd question myself on if I were in your situation, is whether timesharing was for me at all.  You've already stated you were an extreme outlier in your expectations of the quality and amenities of the resorts you visit.  I predict you'll either need to get out, or lighten up expectations and be more flexible to be happy with timesharing. 


Hankmoon said:


> Yes, I agree, not an investment. I changed the word to money. A timeshare is just money thrown away but hopefully creating some good memories.


It is not an investment in the usual sense but it is an investment in you and the family but really only as much as it saves you money  or gives you options you couldn't do with cash for similar.  As such you want to get the best option that works for you for the least money and the least risk going forward.  Knowledge is power so investigate and spend time doing so for purchases and exchange options.  Forewarned is forearmed as they say.


----------



## Hankmoon

I am happy with the quality of rooms at the Marriott Vacation Clubs and the Westins. We loved the Westin Princeville and would stay there again in a minute. We just like to get an ocean view when we go to the beach. Marriotts and Westins are a solid 4 star, which is acceptable to me. If I get an ocean view, that always lifts my rating to 4.5 stars. Occidental Vacation Club showed me a room that was a 4-4.5 star with an ocean view but without the ocean view, it drops down to a 3.5-4 star at most. That is not what we paid for. I would have put Occidental and Marriott on the same quality level. If they are lying and deceitful, Occidental will fall off the list. I will let you know next week how they resolve this. If they throw me a bone and only resolve this one incident, that will be unacceptable. I already told them I will not travel like this for the next 25 years.

My other timeshare is Grand Luxxe. That is 5 star. We have already stayed there and have two reservations coming up in November and January. Excellent quality. Great food. Wonderful service. Rooms and views are out of this world in Grand Luxxe Nuevo Vallarta. We have not yet been to Grand Luxxe Riviera Maya but only jungle views there, I have been told. Expensive but worth it. Terrible sales staff. But pretty great otherwise and they always have something new. Just stay away from presentations if you trade into it.


----------



## Dean

Hankmoon said:


> That is not what we paid for.


While it may not be what you thought you paid for, it sounds like it is what you purchased.  Again, part of the pre-purchase investigation should highlight those issues if done well.


> If they throw me a bone and only resolve this one incident, that will be unacceptable. I already told them I will not travel like this for the next 25 years.


So what is your exit strategy?  How much are you willing to lose to get out if you're not satisfied going forward?


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## Hankmoon

We paid for an ocean view 2 bedroom suite at all clubs where ocean views are available. We have it in writing. Occidental Vacation Club hotel managers are not honoring it now but the company is trying to fix it. Sales has been in touch with us today. It will take a few months to fix it and we do not know if they will offer an acceptable solution. We have an exit strategy but we will give Occidental until January to fix it. No rush at this point.

I must say the hotel managers at many of the clubs are not that great. We have not yet stayed in an Occidental club but we have visited 5 clubs during our vacations in Mexico since we purchased our membership. It is hit or miss as to whether the club managers are nice or not. I have complained about customer service at the clubs in the past. Some clubs are wonderful and some are mechanical.

Customer service in the vacation industry is hit or miss everywhere. Years ago, we visited one of my favorite resorts in the world, Caneel Bay in St John. Great resort, horrible customer service. Sadly, it is gone right now due to the hurricane.


----------



## Dean

Hankmoon said:


> We paid for an ocean view 2 bedroom suite at all clubs where ocean views are available. We have it in writing. Occidental Vacation Club hotel managers are not honoring it now but the company is trying to fix it. Sales has been in touch with us today. It will take a few months to fix it and we do not know if they will offer an acceptable solution. We have an exit strategy but we will give Occidental until January to fix it. No rush at this point.
> 
> I must say the hotel managers at many of the clubs are not that great. We have not yet stayed in an Occidental club but we have visited 5 clubs during our vacations in Mexico since we purchased our membership. It is hit or miss as to whether the club managers are nice or not. I have complained about customer service at the clubs in the past. Some clubs are wonderful and some are mechanical.
> 
> Customer service in the vacation industry is hit or miss everywhere. Years ago, we visited one of my favorite resorts in the world, Caneel Bay in St John. Great resort, horrible customer service. Sadly, it is gone right now due to the hurricane.


Good luck, I hope it works out but it doesn't sound overly favorable.


----------



## RussellSun

Dean said:


> The answers you'll get will be all over the place.  You'll have to look at the pros and cons, prices, etc.  If you get a good week they should all trade well.  None will be a good choice for exchanging but using most of the time and exchanging part of the time will be helpful.  We despise KBC so we'll not go rather than stay there but all the rest are nice.  Ko Olina is likely the best value $$$ wise.  Ko Olina and Maui have lockoff's.  All have high fees comparatively speaking.  My ease of exchanging has been more in than out as I own at Ko Olina but elsewhere.  Generally I've deposited Ko Olina as separate deposits and gone to Aruba or taken Destination Club points which I'll likely do for next summer as well the way things are shaping up (exchanged in).
> 
> Ultimately the answer I'd give you would depend on your preferences and how you'd use it.  To go to HI every year I'd likely own Maui and Kauai (non KBC, likely Waiohai).  To go EOY and exchange on off years I'd likely own Maui and Ko Olina because they are the ones with a lockoff.



We are thinking of buying Marriott Ko Olina EOY. How far in advance are you allowed to book your week as an owner at Marriott Ko Olina? Do you ever have trouble booking the week you want as an owner. For example, if we ask the seller to book Thanksgiving week 2018 for us before we close escrow, are we likely to get it? 

Is it worth depositing the 2 BR lockoff into II when you don't use it? Do you get good exchanges for the 1 bedroom deposit and the studio deposit? 

Is parking free at MKO?


----------



## Dean

RussellSun said:


> We are thinking of buying Marriott Ko Olina EOY. How far in advance are you allowed to book your week as an owner at Marriott Ko Olina? Do you ever have trouble booking the week you want as an owner. For example, if we ask the seller to book Thanksgiving week 2018 for us before we close escrow, are we likely to get it?
> 
> Is it worth depositing the 2 BR lockoff into II when you don't use it? Do you get good exchanges for the 1 bedroom deposit and the studio deposit?
> 
> Is parking free at MKO?


I'm sure some others will have more knowledge and experience in this area than I do.  We own the EOY week there and we are enrolled in Destination Club points.  I don't go to HI every 2 years, our goal is every 4 and for this trip it'll have been 6.  Generally I've taken DC points rather than exchanging it with II since we mostly travel to Marriott's and similar and I have another Marriott trader that gives me a better value though likely has a lower trade power.  

For this coming summer at Ko Olina we needed two 2BR plus something else.  I initially reserved my week plus a 2 BR & a studio on DC points.  I've since traded back with my trader to cover all those needs and thus canceled all and took DC points on the Ko Olina week.  The last trip we did something similar but it was too late to take points so I deposited it with II as a studio and a 1BR and got a 2 BR for each, one at Ocean Watch and he other Legend's Edge.  

I've never had any trouble booking but I'm usually booking as a string more than 13 months out though I doubt you'd be shut out if you booked day 1.  That first year might be an issue if you're under 12 months and sometimes you can't get the seller to book the week for you.  I believe parking is free as a Marriott owner staying or exchanging in.  

I think the real question is whether you should buy a week there.  I'm not sure I would buy it currently if I didn't own it already.  If you're going every 2 years and the OV is important to you, that might be a reason to do so.  The other issue is whether you'll want to go to Oahu consistently, if the answer is no and you're largely looking for at trading unit that also gets you to HI here and there, I'd likely buy elsewhere and try to trade to HI when needed.


----------



## RussellSun

Dean said:


> I'm sure some others will have more knowledge and experience in this area than I do.  We own the EOY week there and we are enrolled in Destination Club points.  I don't go to HI every 2 years, our goal is every 4 and for this trip it'll have been 6.  Generally I've taken DC points rather than exchanging it with II since we mostly travel to Marriott's and similar and I have another Marriott trader that gives me a better value though likely has a lower trade power.
> 
> For this coming summer at Ko Olina we needed two 2BR plus something else.  I initially reserved my week plus a 2 BR & a studio on DC points.  I've since traded back with my trader to cover all those needs and thus canceled all and took DC points on the Ko Olina week.  The last trip we did something similar but it was too late to take points so I deposited it with II as a studio and a 1BR and got a 2 BR for each, one at Ocean Watch and he other Legend's Edge.
> 
> I've never had any trouble booking but I'm usually booking as a string more than 13 months out though I doubt you'd be shut out if you booked day 1.  That first year might be an issue if you're under 12 months and sometimes you can't get the seller to book the week for you.  I believe parking is free as a Marriott owner staying or exchanging in.
> 
> I think the real question is whether you should buy a week there.  I'm not sure I would buy it currently if I didn't own it already.  If you're going every 2 years and the OV is important to you, that might be a reason to do so.  The other issue is whether you'll want to go to Oahu consistently, if the answer is no and you're largely looking for at trading unit that also gets you to HI here and there, I'd likely buy elsewhere and try to trade to HI when needed.



Thanks Dean, for your input. We really want to buy a 2 BR lockoff with an ocean view in Hawaii. The choice is either Maui Ocean Club or Ko Olina. We visited Ko Olina and loved the resort and the lagoon. The units are beautiful, the ocean views and mountain views are very nice and we like that they have a full kitchen. I know Maui is a more popular island but MOC does not have a full kitchen and the Napili Villas are too expensive. We are not looking for a trader. We are looking for a place to visit ourselves and perhaps we would deposit the studio into II if we want to go somewhere else sometimes. We own another timeshare too and have other travel options. We might also trade for the other Hawaiian islands and the Caribbean sometimes. A few questions:
- How do you sign up for DC points?
- Is it possible to visit the Disney Aulani next door and eat dinner or watch shows? Or buy a day pass and use the facilities?


----------



## Dean

RussellSun said:


> Thanks Dean, for your input. We really want to buy a 2 BR lockoff with an ocean view in Hawaii. The choice is either Maui Ocean Club or Ko Olina. We visited Ko Olina and loved the resort and the lagoon. The units are beautiful, the ocean views and mountain views are very nice and we like that they have a full kitchen. I know Maui is a more popular island but MOC does not have a full kitchen and the Napili Villas are too expensive. We are not looking for a trader. We are looking for a place to visit ourselves and perhaps we would deposit the studio into II if we want to go somewhere else sometimes. We own another timeshare too and have other travel options. We might also trade for the other Hawaiian islands and the Caribbean sometimes. A few questions:
> - How do you sign up for DC points?
> - Is it possible to visit the Disney Aulani next door and eat dinner or watch shows? Or buy a day pass and use the facilities?


You should spend time getting your head around all of this prior to moving forward.  Ko Olina will be easier to reserve than Maui. One can no longer just sign up for DC points but you could buy a Trust points package and a resale week directly with Marriott to get additional points.  The cost is going to be dramatic though compared to the other options. For HI I'd decide about what/how you want to use it.  Consider that the fees are considerably more for HI in general and more for Maui than Ko Olina.  It sounds like you only need a studio or 1 BR, if this is the case and you're OK with going EOY, I'd still consider a trading purchase elsewhere, esp if you are already paying for II anyway.  To buy in HI, I'd buy where I preferred to go, I wouldn't let the price dictate the island choices.  Put another way, I wouldn't buy Ko Olina if I preferred Maui but I might buy both.  There are lots of variables so keep asking and investigating, your best choices will become more clear as you do.


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## RussellSun

Believe it or not, Maui is my least favorite island in Hawaii. I like the Big Island and the Ko Olina section on Oahu. My husband loves Kauai. So I think the 2 BR lockoff at Ko Olina fits our needs the best because we can use 1 bedroom and deposit the studio and get another week at the Big Island or Kauai, I hope. We were recently at the Marriott Ko Olina and I loved it. The two bedroom ocean view was spectacular. I have not seen a unit with such a beautiful view and I love the two balconies on the 2 BR lockoff. I suspect we may often use it ourselves as a 2 BR since we have other timeshares for traveling year round and we like space. Our MKO will close by year end. Should I ask the owner to make a reservation for us for late next summer or Thanksgiving or do you think I can wait until after closing and make my own reservation? Does MKO tend to have space or does it book up?


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## mjm1

RussellSun said:


> Believe it or not, Maui is my least favorite island in Hawaii. I like the Big Island and the Ko Olina section on Oahu. My husband loves Kauai. So I think the 2 BR lockoff at Ko Olina fits our needs the best because we can use 1 bedroom and deposit the studio and get another week at the Big Island or Kauai, I hope. We were recently at the Marriott Ko Olina and I loved it. The two bedroom ocean view was spectacular. I have not seen a unit with such a beautiful view and I love the two balconies on the 2 BR lockoff. I suspect we may often use it ourselves as a 2 BR since we have other timeshares for traveling year round and we like space. Our MKO will close by year end. Should I ask the owner to make a reservation for us for late next summer or Thanksgiving or do you think I can wait until after closing and make my own reservation? Does MKO tend to have space or does it book up?



Congratulations on your impending purchase. It is indeed a beautiful resort.

I would recommend asking the current owner to make the reservation now for you. The sooner it is made, the higher your priority for room assignments will be. You can make specific requests, which won’t be guaranteed, once you own it, but at least your reservation will be made.

Good luck and enjoy many years of great vacations there.

Best regards.

Mike


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## Dean

RussellSun said:


> Believe it or not, Maui is my least favorite island in Hawaii. I like the Big Island and the Ko Olina section on Oahu. My husband loves Kauai. So I think the 2 BR lockoff at Ko Olina fits our needs the best because we can use 1 bedroom and deposit the studio and get another week at the Big Island or Kauai, I hope. We were recently at the Marriott Ko Olina and I loved it. The two bedroom ocean view was spectacular. I have not seen a unit with such a beautiful view and I love the two balconies on the 2 BR lockoff. I suspect we may often use it ourselves as a 2 BR since we have other timeshares for traveling year round and we like space. Our MKO will close by year end. Should I ask the owner to make a reservation for us for late next summer or Thanksgiving or do you think I can wait until after closing and make my own reservation? Does MKO tend to have space or does it book up?


I certainly wouldn't buy Maui unless I intended to stay there most of the weeks owned, it's too expensive to own and exchange or not use personally.  Given your additional information, I wonder if Trust points wouldn't have been a better choice or a needed addition to your new purchase.  Likely your only feasible option for Kauai exchanging the studio is going to be KBC which I don't personally care for and it remains to be seen how this will work out for the Big Island.  You certainly could list the other Kauai resorts on an exchange option and you might do OK retracing it to get larger villas and/or other resorts.  Points should get you into the BI better and give you the option of Kauai Lagoons on Kauai as well as the possibility of Maui if you decide to give it another try.  OF course points will likely be more expensive.  Good luck and enjoy.


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## Quadmaniac

RussellSun said:


> Believe it or not, Maui is my least favorite island in Hawaii. I like the Big Island and the Ko Olina section on Oahu. My husband loves Kauai. So I think the 2 BR lockoff at Ko Olina fits our needs the best because we can use 1 bedroom and deposit the studio and get another week at the Big Island or Kauai, I hope. We were recently at the Marriott Ko Olina and I loved it. The two bedroom ocean view was spectacular. I have not seen a unit with such a beautiful view and I love the two balconies on the 2 BR lockoff. I suspect we may often use it ourselves as a 2 BR since we have other timeshares for traveling year round and we like space. Our MKO will close by year end. Should I ask the owner to make a reservation for us for late next summer or Thanksgiving or do you think I can wait until after closing and make my own reservation? Does MKO tend to have space or does it book up?



Maui used to be my favorite but with how many people are at the resort, less options for reasonably priced restaurants, higher cost for car rentals (marginally), more difficult access to Costco (by the airport only), more difficult to trade into, mostly MOC vs MM1 availability, Ko Olina became my primary choice as it was so easy to trade into, everything is close by like Costco, Walmart, Safeway, lots of Korean BBQ places for reasonable prices and so many things to do on the island at overall cheaper prices, it was a no brainer. 

Definitely the earlier you can decide when you want to go and reserve the time, the better but I don't think it is as crazy as Maui in terms of booking in advance. There is plenty of availability but if it is a high demand time like Thanksgiving, spring break, etc. you might want to book at the first opportunity just in case. You could always phone and ask Marriott  how fast they book up on certain holidays and they can tell you. 

While you can use the MKO studio for trading, its really only worthwhile if you trade back into Ko Olina into a larger unit otherwise I would recommend getting a cheaper Marriott Platinum lock off trader to use as it will cost you less. If you figure the MF is about $2150 - while not exact, but if you alot half for the studio its $1075 plus half of the $80 lock off fee makes the cost to be $1115 plus trading fees. If you use a cheap trader, you might be looking at about $600 plus 1/2 lock off and trading fees. This will also get you into BI which you desire but you may or may not be able to get into the new Marriott in BI. Kauai is overall an easy trade so I wouldn't sweat that one. You might be better off renting your MKO studio for $1200-$1500 and taking the money offsetting some of your costs of trading with a cheap trader/cost to stay at MKO. IF you're getting $1500, your net cost to stay at MKO is $700 then. If you're only getting $1200, you're in it for $1000.


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## Quadmaniac

Hankmoon said:


> We paid for an ocean view 2 bedroom suite at all clubs where ocean views are available. We have it in writing. Occidental Vacation Club hotel managers are not honoring it now but the company is trying to fix it. Sales has been in touch with us today. It will take a few months to fix it and we do not know if they will offer an acceptable solution. We have an exit strategy but we will give Occidental until January to fix it. No rush at this point.
> 
> I must say the hotel managers at many of the clubs are not that great. We have not yet stayed in an Occidental club but we have visited 5 clubs during our vacations in Mexico since we purchased our membership. It is hit or miss as to whether the club managers are nice or not. I have complained about customer service at the clubs in the past. Some clubs are wonderful and some are mechanical.
> 
> Customer service in the vacation industry is hit or miss everywhere. Years ago, we visited one of my favorite resorts in the world, Caneel Bay in St John. Great resort, horrible customer service. Sadly, it is gone right now due to the hurricane.



Getting out of Mexican timeshares is not as easy as you think. Due to the transfer fees, it makes it unattractive to most who might want to take it over. That is another reason why so many are cautious about buying into Mexico. While some resorts may be more "5*" having the luxury of being able to exit without huge transfers fees, being high demand in Hawaii, the safety issues makes Hawaii a way easier choice than going to Mexico. I've been a number of times and I can safely say I'm done with Mexico. With how much some of my friends have spent on buying in Mexico, I could get numerous weeks in Hawaii and have a number of options to exit when it no longer suits my travel needs.


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## RussellSun

Quadmaniac said:


> Getting out of Mexican timeshares is not as easy as you think. Due to the transfer fees, it makes it unattractive to most who might want to take it over. That is another reason why so many are cautious about buying into Mexico. While some resorts may be more "5*" having the luxury of being able to exit without huge transfers fees, being high demand in Hawaii, the safety issues makes Hawaii a way easier choice than going to Mexico. I've been a number of times and I can safely say I'm done with Mexico. With how much some of my friends have spent on buying in Mexico, I could get numerous weeks in Hawaii and have a number of options to exit when it no longer suits my travel needs.



Yes, this is an excellent point. We own at the Grand Luxxe in Mexico and the entry level contract is as expensive as the three resale contracts we are getting at Marriott Ko Olina EOY ocean view and the two Disney contracts with two home resorts. We can never sell the Grand Luxxe as there is no resale market for the Grand Luxxe. Our only option will be to let it expire at the end of 10 years if we do not want to renew. That will make the cost per year over 10 years really high. However, it is super luxurious. Nothing I have ever stayed in compares to the luxury of the Grand Luxxe. Not the Ritz, not the Four Seasons, nothing. So we are really paying for the luxury. It is not an economical decision at all. Marriott and Disney seem like "rational" decisions in comparison. In spite of how irrational it is to own at the Grand Luxxe, we are considering an upgrade to a more luxurious unit. We better love it before we decide because we can never sell it!


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## Quadmaniac

RussellSun said:


> Yes, this is an excellent point. We own at the Grand Luxxe in Mexico and the entry level contract is as expensive as the three resale contracts we are getting at Marriott Ko Olina EOY ocean view and the two Disney contracts with two home resorts. We can never sell the Grand Luxxe as there is no resale market for the Grand Luxxe. Our only option will be to let it expire at the end of 10 years if we do not want to renew. That will make the cost per year over 10 years really high. However, it is super luxurious. Nothing I have ever stayed in compares to the luxury of the Grand Luxxe. Not the Ritz, not the Four Seasons, nothing. So we are really paying for the luxury. It is not an economical decision at all. Marriott and Disney seem like "rational" decisions in comparison. In spite of how irrational it is to own at the Grand Luxxe, we are considering an upgrade to a more luxurious unit. We better love it before we decide because we can never sell it!



Out of curiosity, what are they asking for a contract now ? You pay MF each year or its pay as you use it ?


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## Dean

RussellSun said:


> Yes, this is an excellent point. We own at the Grand Luxxe in Mexico and the entry level contract is as expensive as the three resale contracts we are getting at Marriott Ko Olina EOY ocean view and the two Disney contracts with two home resorts. We can never sell the Grand Luxxe as there is no resale market for the Grand Luxxe. Our only option will be to let it expire at the end of 10 years if we do not want to renew. That will make the cost per year over 10 years really high. However, it is super luxurious. Nothing I have ever stayed in compares to the luxury of the Grand Luxxe. Not the Ritz, not the Four Seasons, nothing. So we are really paying for the luxury. It is not an economical decision at all. Marriott and Disney seem like "rational" decisions in comparison. In spite of how irrational it is to own at the Grand Luxxe, we are considering an upgrade to a more luxurious unit. We better love it before we decide because we can never sell it!


And unfortunately, II is getting a ton of deposits there right now with all sizes including 3 BR, through Aug, 2019


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## RussellSun

Quadmaniac said:


> Out of curiosity, what are they asking for a contract now ? You pay MF each year or its pay as you use it ?



Grand Luxxe contracts start in the $30-$40K range (I think) and go up from there into the $100,000 to $1,000,000 range, so I hear. You pay when you use it. You get three weeks a year with a Grand Luxxe starter contract and you can also use anything below your contract level. You also get 2 Vida Weeks with SFX (not an exchange; you put in a search request and wait until they find a match, then you pay if you want the match, rates are way cheap). You also get 10 extra weeks with Grand Luxxe through The Vida Lifestyles. You are enrolled in The Registry Collection and the Elite Alliance with some contracts. The higher level your contract, the more benefits and more exclusive perks you get but I do not know what they are since the high rollers are treated completely differently. Grand Luxxe is very hierarchical and everything is based on how much money you have "invested" with the company. More money invested = better room assignments and better views. They have many perks they do not tell you about until you qualify for them. They have new and even more expensive room categories being released in the future that will probably never be on II. They are no longer allowing Grand Luxxe members to join II. I assume this is because they do not want members to exchange and deposit into II. So whatever you see in II has been carefully deposited by Vidanta to get you there.


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## RussellSun

Dean said:


> And unfortunately, II is getting a ton of deposits there right now with all sizes including 3 BR, through Aug, 2019



What room categories are you seeing? Is it the 3 bedroom presidential suites, 3 bedroom lofts or 3 bedroom punta building? What other categories do you see? Just wondering.

One thing I learned about myself is that I hate exchanging. I do not like putting in a request and waiting for an exchange. I like to call and book what I want when I want it. I like have a guaranteed view and knowing exactly what I am getting. I had some search requests in with SFX for next summer and I canceled them because I did not like waiting. Instead, I booked some of my own stuff for more money. Once my Marriott passes ROFR (I am crossing my fingers that it does) then I will give II a chance and see if like it. So far, I do not like SFX or RCI. I like the TUG philosophy of buy where you want to stay.


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## Dean

RussellSun said:


> What room categories are you seeing? Is it the 3 bedroom presidential suites, 3 bedroom lofts or 3 bedroom punta building? What other categories do you see? Just wondering.
> 
> One thing I learned about myself is that I hate exchanging. I do not like putting in a request and waiting for an exchange. I like to call and book what I want when I want it. I like have a guaranteed view and knowing exactly what I am getting. I had some search requests in with SFX for next summer and I canceled them because I did not like waiting. Instead, I booked some of my own stuff for more money. Once my Marriott passes ROFR (I am crossing my fingers that it does) then I will give II a chance and see if like it. So far, I do not like SFX or RCI. I like the TUG philosophy of buy where you want to stay.


I'm not sure I know the room types well enough to say for certain.  I see 3 BR listed as 6/8 LK and 8/10 full Kitchen.  Based on the Vidanta website I'd venture to guess they are 3 BR presidential and 3 BR spa units.  The II website appears down right now but I'd venture there were maybe 150-200 villas listed.  It's good you own to use because the trade value is likely to be relatively low compared to the quality of the resort as is usual in MX.


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## RussellSun

Wow, that sounds like a lot of Grand Luxxe inventory. Grand Luxxe owners are not allowed to use II or RCI so we can’t trade. We are only allowed to use SFX but their inventory is awful for trading because it is so limited so no one trades on SFX - we get two Vida Weeks per year instead and do not need to give up our Grand Luxxe weeks. Grand Luxxe owners are given a free 2 year membership to The Registry Collection. If you own a two-level Residence Loft, you can qualify for Elite Alliance which is very high end. Vidanta does not want a resale market for its contracts. I suspect that is why they moved to no maintenance fees and 10 year contracts so there is less incentive to try to sell. It only makes sense to buy Grand Luxxe if you love it and want to go 2-3 weeks or more per year esp in high season and you want good rooms in a specific room category on specific dates. If you are flexible and fine with exchanging in every now and then, trading on II seems like a good way to go.


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## Dean

RussellSun said:


> Wow, that sounds like a lot of Grand Luxxe inventory. Grand Luxxe owners are not allowed to use II or RCI so we can’t trade. We are only allowed to use SFX but their inventory is awful for trading because it is so limited so no one trades on SFX - we get two Vida Weeks per year instead and do not need to give up our Grand Luxxe weeks. Grand Luxxe owners are given a free 2 year membership to The Registry Collection. If you own a two-level Residence Loft, you can qualify for Elite Alliance which is very high end. Vidanta does not want a resale market for its contracts. I suspect that is why they moved to no maintenance fees and 10 year contracts so there is less incentive to try to sell. It only makes sense to buy Grand Luxxe if you love it and want to go 2-3 weeks or more per year esp in high season and you want good rooms in a specific room category on specific dates. If you are flexible and fine with exchanging in every now and then, trading on II seems like a good way to go.


I was able to get back in this morning after they completed their maintenance and I vastly underestimated, it' almost 700.  Other resort in the area have a bunch of availability also.  As I posted before, the reason they limit exchanges is to maximize sales opportunities, not for the benefit of the membership.  I suspect one could rent through II or SFX pretty easily as well.


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