# New Wyndham Fees Increase



## Maurie17 (Oct 8, 2008)

*Wyndham Guest Reservations/Major Price Increase effective 10/15*

Wyndham has posted on the main page of the website today a major price increase for guest reservations of $99 online and $129 if we call in.

There are also some other price increases that owners need to review.

You will need to scroll down the page to find this. It isn't very noticeable!

Maurie


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## Jerry in NJ (Oct 8, 2008)

_Go to the Wyndham main homepage and scroll down after the sweepstakes information. It is not very noticable!_

Important Change to your FairShare Plus Transaction Fees
Your FairShare Vacation Owners Association’s Board of Directors recently approved a new fee-for-service structure to ensure all program rules and fees are fair and equitable for all owners. These changes take effect on October 15, 2008. This approach assures that the costs incurred by a few owners will not be shared by the entire ownership. You may also take advantage of significant savings when you complete some of transactions that are available online.


For your convenience, we are pleased to provide you answers to the some of the anticipated questions you may have about the new fee structure.


Guest Confirmations to $129

Reservation Transactions to $59 

 Other fees also going up..

Jerry in NJ


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## janej (Oct 8, 2008)

What is reservation transaction?  Is that the now $30 transaction fee?


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## Jya-Ning (Oct 8, 2008)

janej said:


> What is reservation transaction?  Is that the now $30 transaction fee?



Only when you run out of free transaction and call VC.

Jya-Ning


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## acesneights (Oct 8, 2008)

Good grief.

Guest Certificates went from $25 to $49 to $129 in just over a year.

Transactions from $25 to $30 to $59.

That should cut the use of alternate exchange companies.

So a weekend for your child might cost $100 for the points and $188 in fees.

I'm surprised housekeeping didn't go to $5 so they can get $500 in fees for each reservation.

Forget the flexibility of points, if you use a weeks worth of points for 3 reservation not for your own use and not at the same time, you could easily pay $700 in fees. $387 in GC, $118 for tranactions and $250 in HK.

Stan


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## GregT (Oct 8, 2008)

How many free transactions do you get a year?  It looks like Wyndham is nickel and diming on the fees, like an airline.....

Targeting specifically the less than 7 day trips?????????


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## vacationhopeful (Oct 9, 2008)

acesneights said:


> Good grief.
> 
> Guest Certificates went from $25 to $49 to $129 in just over a year.
> 
> ...



Guess they are trying to eliminate the outside rental market to make their rental program profitable?  This will remove the midweek 2-4 day rentals that the mega-points owners offer.

As they don't offer the RCI multi-year guest certificate, it will make family trips more expensive - as Wyndham has that computer sweep at the 14 day mark to remove multiple reservations in one name at the same resort.

Going to Star Island next week - should be interesting spin by the sales weasals as to this "new" improvement.  Will post as SI has free inroom WIFI, only because Wyndham does NOT manage this resort.:ignore:


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## pagosajim (Oct 9, 2008)

*WIFI is up to the POA*



vacationhopeful said:


> Will post as SI has free inroom WIFI, only because Wyndham does NOT manage this resort.:ignore:



Not related to this topic, but the Wyndham's I'm associated with are not responsible for in-room WIFI.  That's determined by the individual POA's to provide and whether for free or not.


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## massvacationer (Oct 9, 2008)

Additional (above your allotment) transactions are still $30, when you make the reservation on-line.

Renting points from Wyndham during the 90 day express window is going up significantly:  From $5 to $8.


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## bnoble (Oct 9, 2008)

There seem to be two "changes" going on at once.

One: get people to use the web site, and stop calling VCs.

Two: increase the cost basis for the rental market.

It will be interesting to see what sort of impact this will have on the owner-to-owner point rental market.  If that goes up substantially, it also will tend to make more resale deeds "viable".  Last week, if a deed had MF/K ratio of $5.50 or so, no one would touch it with a 10-foot pole, because renting is cheaper.  In two months, that deed might start to look pretty good.



> should be interesting spin by the sales weasals as to this "new" improvement.


It should be easy for them---these increased costs are largely not borne by VIP members.

One more thought: this is one way to deal with the economically-induced drop in sales traffic/financing income.


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## vacationhopeful (Oct 9, 2008)

Hope they have fixed the guest certificate problem where my Canadian friends can't have the post code correctly entered via the online reservation system.

System will accept Canadian codes in the state field but will NOT accept a 6 digit postal codo or one with letters in it  ....  makes you wonder if they do mail a guest certificate to Canada or Mexico.  When I had to call a VC, they said they just put numbers in the zip field.


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## vacationhopeful (Oct 9, 2008)

And what will the fee be to call a VC when the VIP's want their "automatic" free uograde???

The reservation system does not have that function, or I have not found it yet...


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## Jya-Ning (Oct 9, 2008)

vacationhopeful said:


> Hope they have fixed the guest certificate problem where my Canadian friends can't have the post code correctly entered via the online reservation system.
> 
> System will accept Canadian codes in the state field but will NOT accept a 6 digit postal codo or one with letters in it  ....  makes you wonder if they do mail a guest certificate to Canada or Mexico.  When I had to call a VC, they said they just put numbers in the zip field.



Put your own address, then send them through eMail or fax.

Jya-Ning


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## Jya-Ning (Oct 9, 2008)

GregT said:


> How many free transactions do you get a year?



Get 1 every 77k points.  That are good for all the activities done in the same day (not sure if after 10/15/08, it still will hold or not)

Jya-Ning


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## Jya-Ning (Oct 9, 2008)

see this thread also

http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=82998

Jya-Ning


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## bnoble (Oct 9, 2008)

vacationhopeful said:


> And what will the fee be to call a VC when the VIP's want their "automatic" free uograde???
> 
> The reservation system does not have that function, or I have not found it yet...



No, it doesn't.  But, Gold and Plat have free transactions.


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## BocaBum99 (Oct 9, 2008)

Here is a chart of the new charges:


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## Sandy VDH (Oct 9, 2008)

I nearly fell off my chair when I saw the increase in Guest Certificates from $25 to $129.  That is highway robbery.  Especially for us that already had "unlimited" as VIP level before, that was now taken away.  I would be very upset it I had to pay that amount. Thankfully I have lots of Guest Certificates to burn up in a year.

I thought it was going to be $49.  How did it jump all the way to $129 (or $99 online)?


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## BocaBum99 (Oct 9, 2008)

Sandy Lovell said:


> I nearly fell off my chair when I saw the increase in Guest Certificates from $25 to $129.  That is highway robbery.  Especially for us that already had "unlimited".  I would be very upset it I had to pay that amount.
> 
> I thought it was going to be $49.  How did it jump all the way to $129 (or $99 online)?



I was SHOCKED.  They are clearly targeted the mega renters.  If the owner does it online, there is NO extra work by Wyndham.  Not one thing.  My guess is that there will be a lawsuit on this fee.  

I can see setting it at $64.  But, $129?  If Wyndham gets away with this, there is nothing that will stop them from making it something like $499.   This is eggregious profiteering that should be challenged by someone.  We'll see how it goes.


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## rickandcindy23 (Oct 9, 2008)

Wow, can you believe this huge increase.  Fairfield is greedy!  Too bad those fees aren't going directly to the resorts, so they won't impose assessments.  I would be okay with that.


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## Fitzriley (Oct 9, 2008)

I just received an email from Wyndham wIth the changes. I am already in fees this year because I did several 2-3 day stays this summer. So I used up my reservation credits as well as housekeeping, but I stil lhave lots of points left. So I will pay even more trying to use these up. They say points are great because of using them for more frequent but shorter stays, but the fees really start adding up. 
I get 2 reservation credits each year and 1 guest certificate based on points, 164,500. Also 165 housekeeping credits, which you can borrow from next year. So with 120,000 points leftover, I need to do all my transactions remaining on the same day to only pay the $30 fee and borrow next years hk credits. What a scam............


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## Fitzriley (Oct 9, 2008)

So, I am thinking that instead of waiting until December to deposit my leftover points with RCI, I need to do this by Oct. 15th to save the money. I am looking to use them for next summer Williamsburg, so I could deposit both 70k and 28k and use the 70k to get a week at Patriots Place in August and stillhave a week left at RCI for an off-season studio. I can use a guest certificate at RCI cheaper than Wyndham now, right?


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## bnoble (Oct 9, 2008)

> They are clearly targeted the mega renters. If the owner does it online, there is NO extra work by Wyndham. Not one thing.


That's my take too.  The explanatory verbiage talks about guests using facilities owners pay for, but that's what the points and FSP fee were supposed to cover, no?  There's no justifiable reason for it other than to go after the renters.

I suspect the real reason for this and the short-term rental fee increase to $8/K is to try to reduce competition for Wyndham's own rental program.



> My guess is that there will be a lawsuit on this fee.


On what basis?  I agree that it is ridiculously high, but it's not clear what you could sue for.  Perhaps I'm just not sufficiently clever.


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## Aussiedog (Oct 9, 2008)

*How much lower can the resale price go??*

If the mega-renters try and dump their large contracts by the end of the year (there are some on eBay now), this could impact the price of points the same way that the unwinding of some hedge funds has added to the pain in the stock market.

And if points are already priced well below a penny a point......:annoyed: 

Ann


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## lprstn (Oct 9, 2008)

Well I am a bit shocked, but as I have VIP Gold hopefully I will still be getting these things for free.

However, when I didn't have VIP, I was very thrifty, I made my reservations all at one time and didn't change them.  So I worked with the system I had, as many other TS owners do.

Also, if you compare what you can get in the amount of Wyndham points and other places that you purchase for 1 week, you still come out on top.

Just as people worked this system before...they will find a way to work it again.


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## bnoble (Oct 9, 2008)

Ann, it could cut both ways---several personal-use owners have been renting for their increased piont needs rather than adding on, because it's been such a good deal.  Increasing the short-term rental rate to $8/K makes some previously untouchable deeds with MF in the $5.50/K range a lot more interesting.

We'll just have to wait to see what happens.  Should be interesting.


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## Don40 (Oct 9, 2008)

The price increase is really outrageous, but he hardest thing to swallow is that several items are not available on-line and the fees still went up.  If WYN spend a few shekels on their computer system and got it up and fully operational then raising the fees to call the VC instead of using the on-line system is OK.  This is total price gouging as the on-line system is half functional and the price increase amounts are crazy.

This is WYN way of asking us owners for a "bail out" from their financial difficulties.  I am sure the hotel business is very slow, but TS owners want to use their points and are willing to pay to do so because we love to vacation.


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## vacationhopeful (Oct 9, 2008)

As others have stated on these boards, the rental market is slower.  Wyndham's rental market (Extra Vacations) may also be down.  I have seen many large resale contracts on eBay in the past several months and can't help to wonder if this is the contributing reason (along with the economy).  

Also, resale contracts points are NOT being counted towards the Guest Certificate numbers - FSP members get 1 annual Guest Certificate.  VIP owners get their multiple allocation based on eligible points.  It was interesting that Wyndham used the "resale" word as NOT being eligible - something they seldom do.

As for a lawsuit, could there be a basis as a de factor denial of use of vacation property ownership rights (these are deeded rights)?  There is significant fee increase of 4X (online $25 to $99) or 5+X (VC $25 to $129), with the written justification being increased costs that a guest generates.  Again, whether on owner uses their unit (vacation time) or their tenant, the costs for the reservation and checkin are identical, IMHO.  As for the resort activites, again the same costs ==> what is there to prove that a guest's use of the pool incurs MORE costs than a Wyndham's owner.  Housekeeping fees are already a separate calculation.

Many exchange companies accept vacation time for exchange and process the trades with all participants agreeing that traded vacation time CAN NOT be rented.  This is not a denial of ownersip rights - if I want to trade using the AB&C exchange company, I obey their rules OR find another exchange company.


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## zazz (Oct 9, 2008)

The only fee increase that really gets me is the increase in point rentals.  Being a new owner of 154K points, I was hoping to rent some points initially rather than add on to my existing contract.  Now that plan is in the toilet.

I wonder if this will cause the resale value of 77K and 105K point contracts to crater since the startegy with those was often to buy a small contract and rent the rest.

In any case, the US Air-ing of Wyndham is certainly underway.


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## BocaBum99 (Oct 9, 2008)

Never mind.


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## Jya-Ning (Oct 9, 2008)

Sandy Lovell said:


> I nearly fell off my chair when I saw the increase in Guest Certificates from $25 to $129.  That is highway robbery.  Especially for us that already had "unlimited" as VIP level before, that was now taken away.  I would be very upset it I had to pay that amount. Thankfully I have lots of Guest Certificates to burn up in a year.
> 
> I thought it was going to be $49.  How did it jump all the way to $129 (or $99 online)?



It is $49 this year, the new fee will kick in at 10/15/2008.

Jya-Ning


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## vacationhopeful (Oct 9, 2008)

I believe they were not collecting the $49 guest certificate fee until VERY recently ... as the NEW computer system was not providing how many FREE guest certificates you enjoyed .... recently being less than 6 weeks ago?  

No action of increased rate can have NO DAMAGE - so a fee that wasn't collected til Sept 1st and then 6 weeks later, increases again, can be preceived as just one action.  Not discrete actions and based on different justifications.

*For Example:*
Say I rent you a monthly rental.  You have rented from me for 6 years.  I tell you that come January I will raise your rent by $24 dollars.  You not happy, but I tell you it costs me more money to run the rental unit.  Come 1/1, I tell you that I am not going to collect the rent increase now; but at some day in the future, I will ask you for the higher rent payment to begin.  Now on 9/1, I tell you I want my rent increase starting now.  

But oh surprise!, on 10/8 I tell you I am now raising the rent again on 10/15.  Do you as a common person see this as a separate and discrete rent increase?  You wouldn't ... it wasn't important enough (financially necessary) for me (landlord) to collect my monies due until 9/1, why is it now a financial necessarity for me to raise your rent again?  Is there another motive to harm the "tenant" - to force them illegally out of their home for my (landlord's) financial gain?  Is it "unconscienable" increase in rent (or fees related to my use and enjoyment of my residence)?  


So, IMO, the period of time is too short for these to be discrete actions.  My fees have gone up 4X or 5X, resulting in lost of rights and use by financial harm.


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## msvalenti (Oct 10, 2008)

*Guest Certificate Shock*



BocaBum99 said:


> I was SHOCKED.  They are clearly targeted the mega renters.  If the owner does it online, there is NO extra work by Wyndham.  Not one thing.  My guess is that there will be a lawsuit on this fee.
> 
> I can see setting it at $64.  But, $129?  If Wyndham gets away with this, there is nothing that will stop them from making it something like $499.   This is eggregious profiteering that should be challenged by someone.  We'll see how it goes.



Shocked is not the word, when I read the email I was particularly baffled by this statement:
"This fee covers the costs incurred by non-owners using your services and facilities."
What extra fees do they incur if my sister and her 3 kids use my week or if me and my husband and our 3 kids use it.  All they do is change the reservation name in the computer. My maintenance fee covers my weeks maintenance costs no matter who uses it.  What kind of BS are they trying to feed us here.  I called and asked them to explain what exactly these extra charges are and they said they will call me back today.  If they are trying to stop the renters then they need to do some other way, and they need to be truthful in their email regarding the reasons behind the increased charges. I have a Marriott time share through II and I can almost purchase 4 GC for $129.  If they are almost tripling the charges for the GC then they should triple the number of complimentary GC you are alloted.    I have 2 contracts and I am being told I only get 1 guest certificate.  I should get at the least 2.  What if I can't use my weeks one year and want to GC both of them for family, now I have to pay $129.00.  That is ridiculous.   All you members who are as angry as I am should call owner relations and ask them to explain these additional expenses they incur for guests in detail, and if they cannot explain, they need to be blasted about downright lying in the coorespondence to their members!


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## BocaBum99 (Oct 10, 2008)

msvalenti said:


> Shocked is not the word, when I read the email I was particularly baffled by this statement:
> *"This fee covers the costs incurred by non-owners using your services and facilities."*What extra fees do they incur if my sister and her 3 kids use my week or if me and my husband and our 3 kids use it.  All they do is change the reservation name in the computer. My maintenance fee covers my weeks maintenance costs no matter who uses it.  What kind of BS are they trying to feed us here.  I called and asked them to explain what exactly these extra charges are and they said they will call me back today.  If they are trying to stop the renters then they need to do some other way, and they need to be truthful in their email regarding the reasons behind the increased charges. I have a Marriott time share through II and I can almost purchase 4 GC for $129.  If they are almost tripling the charges for the GC then they should triple the number of complimentary GC you are alloted.    I have 2 contracts and I am being told I only get 1 guest certificate.  I should get at the least 2.  What if I can't use my weeks one year and want to GC both of them for family, now I have to pay $129.00.  That is ridiculous.   All you members who are as angry as I am should call owner relations and ask them to explain these additional expenses they incur for guests in detail, and if they cannot explain, they need to be blasted about downright lying in the coorespondence to their members!



Using Wyndham logic, they should also charge you an extra $129 any time you deposit a week into RCI.  I wonder if that is next.


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## timeos2 (Oct 10, 2008)

*The Exchange or guest penalty will just get worse*



BocaBum99 said:


> Using Wyndham logic, they should also charge you an extra $129 any time you deposit a week into RCI.  I wonder if that is next.



This is just an extension of the "penalty" idea for guests/exchangers (although aimed at the OWNERS in this case) pioneered by DVC though II and then later adopted by Manhattan Club (and RCI) so many years ago.  I was afraid of this and fought it as much as I could - to the point of dropping II and DVC since they were the crew behind it - nearly 8 years ago now. Turns out my single owner action did nothing to stop it (he he, I was SO sure it would - NOT!) but at least I felt I wasn't adding support to a plan that flew in the face of fair like for like trading.  Now the other big boys are picking up on it and its only likely to get worse.  Thanks DVC and II for opening the door....


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## Sandy VDH (Oct 11, 2008)

This got me to thinking how are they planning on "counting" transactions and guest certificates.  

Is it at time of booking the reservation or adding the certificate.  Or is it based on when that reservation or certificate will be used.

I think now that reservations are based on the date of the request not the date that reservation is for.  Can someone clarify or confirm this for me?

Are they going to display somewhere what our transaction and guest fee counts or numbers are.  Kind of like frequest fly upgrades.  How many do you have left?  I think that need to be able to audit and show that to use?  What do others think?  

I have been VIP for so long that I stopped worrying about it since they were "suppose" to be free and unlimited.  Well that is over.


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## Jya-Ning (Oct 11, 2008)

Sandy Lovell said:


> I think now that reservations are based on the date of the request not the date that reservation is for.  Can someone clarify or confirm this for me?




You are right on this (based on the day reservation is made).  The GC is not count in the transaction.

If you use on-line, it shows the total number of transaction.  For GC, if you use on-line, when you click on the one you want to add/change the guest, it shows the free GC available.   I did not play it frequently enough, but I guess change GC is also count as one.  So if your friend or family are always change mind, it maybe a time to cut them loose.

Jya-Ning


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## Sandy VDH (Oct 11, 2008)

I knew that GC don't counts as part of the transaction.  However there is still now a GC count.

Does the count get used up when you make the request for a GC.  If you change a name is that an additional count.  What if it is just a typo?

Do the GC counts increase at the time the GC is requested of the time the reservation is used.

I know that I will be holding on and not getting GC for reservations that might be canceled.  I will hold onto reservations without a GC until the time that the reservation can not be canceled without full penalty.  I will request the GC then.  By brother must change his mind about times before he finally sticks to the room resort and date choices.  Changing requested rooms or getting an upgrade, as a VIP perk for instance, it is another transactions and yet another guest certificate as far as Wyndham's systems are concerned, but in my opinion it is just a change in room.  Are they going to be charging for these I SURE HOPE NOT.


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## Jya-Ning (Oct 11, 2008)

They just have put the restriction, I will believe it is follow whatever it used to follow for people that does not have unlimited GC benefit.  But I don't know too many people that does not have free GC will make too many changes.  But based on what happen to RCI, I would guess if you just happen to have a name error, you can always call VC to correct it without charge.  I have heavy accent, and when I talk to VC, even after we go through several time, they may still make mistake.  You can always point to the fact you already spend a GC on this reservation, and just have them correct it.

As to VIP upgrade, that is a good question, since at this moment, you can not do it through on-line, I will guess if you already have a GC, it will be transfer without extra penalty, but you can and should alway confirm with the VC first, after all, you will have to call a VC on upgrade.

Jya-Ning


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## Leturno (Oct 15, 2008)

*I loved our Fairfield/Wyndham deeds up to an hour ago*

I was trying to decide if it was really worth keeping my Ff/Wynd timeshare with the ever increasing RCI exchange fees. We bought our points because we can travel off season and we could get great trades. We also like being about to take guests off season to local resorts. My heart felt heavy when I read the new fees and then all the way at the botton when it said Resale do not get complimentary GC. How the heck does resale calculate into a GC?? The deed had to be purchased retail at one point. 

I hate the way the use dishonest language about how they are raising fees to be fair. It is obvious they are raising fees to rake in more cash off of their captive owners.

After reading this thread and seeing talk about points selling for less then a penny a point I went to ebay to check it out. DANG I can't even sell my 2.25 cent a point ownership without taking a loss because of the economy and Wyndham’s ever growing hostility to it's MF paying owners.

Can anybody explain to me this? If high level VIP get unlimited GC how do these new fees affect mega renters with mega points?

Maybe it's time to arrange some noisy protests at sales centers! Oh yeah, and invite the media!

Scott


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## bnoble (Oct 15, 2008)

For those wondering: I just checked my (resale-only) account, and I do have one free GC sitting there.

So, it appears everyone gets at least one, not just those with developer purchases.


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## ajdon (Oct 15, 2008)

I'm online in my account, where do you see if you have GCs?


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## Sandy VDH (Oct 15, 2008)

ajdon said:


> I'm online in my account, where do you see if you have GCs?



Go through the process of pretending to book a unit, and click on the need guest certification option.  The count will be there.

Otherwise if you have an existing reservation try to pretend to add a GC.  You don't have to finish either process, but it will show you the GC count on that page where you fill in guest information.


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