# Bonvoy Award Charts and Travel Packages ending March 2022 [MERGED]



## GetawaysRus (Jan 12, 2022)

Haven't seen any news on this up until now. Usually this is a reliable source:









						Marriott Eliminating Air And Hotel Awards Effective Next Wednesday - View from the Wing
					

Marriott travel packages - a multi-night hotel stay bundled with a transfer of airline miles - used to be one of the great sweet spots of Marriott Rewards, just as 'Nights and Flights' was a great value option in the Starwood Preferred Guest program. Effective January 19, 2022 though these...




					viewfromthewing.com


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## Mr. Vker (Jan 12, 2022)

Up until a few years ago, this was the only way I used points. Maldives, Rome, Thailand x 3. Flew all those places in business class. GREAT value. But they devalued them so much, I don't even consider them at all now anyway.


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## Pocky87 (Jan 12, 2022)

Hope the 5 nights package will remain… at least for timeshare members


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## jwalk03 (Jan 12, 2022)

Pocky87 said:


> Hope the 5 nights package will remain… at least for timeshare members



No way they will. The switch to dynamic pricing instead of hotel categories is going to be a huge loser for all of us!


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## mjm1 (Jan 12, 2022)

So assuming this news is true how would a package be used if already purchased but not used yet? Obviously, the air miles are set, but the hotel side is an open question.

Best regards.

Mike


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## Mr. Vker (Jan 12, 2022)

mjm1 said:


> So assuming this news is true how would a package be used if already purchased but not used yet? Obviously, the air miles are set, but the hotel side is an open question.
> 
> Best regards.
> 
> Mike



They will have to honor the certificate. Not sure how though with the dynamic pricing.


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## rthib (Jan 12, 2022)

Mr. Vker said:


> They will have to honor the certificate. Not sure how though with the dynamic pricing.


If you know where you think you might want to go, I would make reservation.
Two thoughts on how they will treat unreserved certificates.
1 - they are nice and honor them at the old hotel category and treat them like before
2 - they just give you the value of the certificate to apply, so it’s no longer a 5 night or 7 night certificate but a x# points certificate,  Anyone who has ever traded back the hotel portion before know that it was always where they placed the discount so this would be very bad.


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## Mr. Vker (Jan 12, 2022)

rthib said:


> If you know where you think you might want to go, I would make reservation.
> Two thoughts on how they will treat unreserved certificates.
> 1 - they are nice and honor them at the old hotel category and treat them like before
> 2 - they just give you the value of the certificate to apply, so it’s no longer a 5 night or 7 night certificate but a x# points certificate,  Anyone who has ever traded back the hotel portion before know that it was always where they placed the discount so this would be very bad.



For #2--they'd have to give a point value for a current stay (prior to dynamic) at that category. Otherwise, they'd be committing a fraud. They owe anyone with a cert a stay for five or seven nights. I don't see how 1 is possible with no defined point values anymore.


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## dioxide45 (Jan 13, 2022)

I am not seeing any mention of what the article is quoting in the terms and conditions;

*3.14 Hotel and Air Travel Packages*
3.14.a. All Loyalty Program Rules apply to Members redeeming Points toward a hotel and flight “*Travel Package*.”

3.14.b. When a Member redeems Points to purchase a Travel Package: (1) the hotel award portion includes consecutive nights at the selected hotel on a Free Night Award or PointSavers Award in a standard room; Upgrade Awards cannot be used with Travel Packages; (2) Miles will be automatically transferred into the participating airline frequent flyer program account that matches the name on the Membership Account; and (3) Travel Packages are excluded from airline partner conversion bonus campaigns. More information on the Travel Packages may be obtained here.

3.14.c. Once a Travel Package is processed:

i.      airline Miles cannot be transferred back to the Membership Account; and

ii.      the hotel award portion of the Travel Package is non-refundable to the Member if cancelled or not used.


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## Steve Fatula (Jan 13, 2022)

jwalk03 said:


> No way they will. The switch to dynamic pricing instead of hotel categories is going to be a huge loser for all of us!



Even for those of us traveling during off season?


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## dougp26364 (Jan 13, 2022)

dioxide45 said:


> Interesting that they are pegging Wyndham resorts a little below Diamond.





dioxide45 said:


> I am not seeing any mention of what the article is quoting in the terms and conditions;
> 
> *3.14 Hotel and Air Travel Packages*
> 3.14.a. All Loyalty Program Rules apply to Members redeeming Points toward a hotel and flight “*Travel Package*.”
> ...



It’s possible this is an opinion piece bs fact checked.

As far as the availability of travel package deals in the future, I’ve wondered how Marriott will be able to do this with dynamic pricing. I’ve assumed, like the article, that they won’t. At the very least, these packages will likely change at some point, I just don’t see how with dynamic pricing. If they don’t change or they’re not discontinued, the package deal will likely be the best way to spend points.

If the6 do discontinue the packages, it will greatly impact the value of BonVoy points and, as a result, the value of either the Chase or AmEx BonVoy cards. At $499/year the AmEx card could lose a lot of value. Even using the $300 credit, which brings the cost down to $199, my bet is a lot of card holders,won’t see the value and will change to some other rewards program or cash back option


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## ocdb8r (Jan 13, 2022)

dioxide45 said:


> I am not seeing any mention of what the article is quoting in the terms and conditions;



As mentioned in the post, Marriott indicated “The information was published prematurely, and we regret the error. We will have additional details for members in the coming days”.

I am sure they pulled it for the moment to prevent widespread redemption for travel certs.  I imagine once they confirm publicly, they will have details of how members with existing certs will be treated....


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## enox5 (Jan 13, 2022)

jwalk03 said:


> No way they will. The switch to dynamic pricing instead of hotel categories is going to be a huge loser for all of us!



The move to dynamic pricing (exception Hyatt), is changing the value proposition for hotel points. In most cases, the value of hotel points has gone down

Normally, the best use of points was always to stay at an expensive hotel, because the points redemption level was capped. That calculation has gone out the window. Hotel points are far less valuable going forward


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## RunCat (Jan 13, 2022)

there was this in October: https://www.businesstraveller.com/b.../27/marriott-bonvoy-unveils-changes-for-2022/


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## jwalk03 (Jan 13, 2022)

Steve Fatula said:


> Even for those of us traveling during off season?



I think so.  I would be very surprised if the dynamic pricing results in value gains even in low season.  Hopefully I'm wrong but I doubt it.

The most valuable redemptions I have ever received have almost always been when properties had a very high cash rate for some reason, but the points rate was capped even if the cap was at the current peak points rate.


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## RunCat (Jan 13, 2022)

Dynamic pricing will, likely, fix the point exchange rate.  Depending on that rate, it may not be a terrible thing.  However, the current system allows for valuation variations based on the time of year.  I suspect this will not be good for most point holders.


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## rthib (Jan 13, 2022)

Mr. Vker said:


> For #2--they'd have to give a point value for a current stay (prior to dynamic) at that category. Otherwise, they'd be committing a fraud. They owe anyone with a cert a stay for five or seven nights. I don't see how 1 is possible with no defined point values anymore.


They would, but it is not the same as a 5 night (or 7 night) just hotel redemption . As I said, in the past when they would exchange a lower category for a higher category of the travel package, you would see the value they assigned. The cost of a travel package is less than if you did a hotel redemption and an airline redemption. They priced the airlines miles at the full cost (the same as if you just redeemed for the airline miles) and “priced” the hotel portion at a discount to get to the total cost of a travel package. So if they do 1, you get the current value but it will not be as much as you think.


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## dioxide45 (Jan 13, 2022)

We are sitting on 550K+ of MR points. This is enough for a five night category 8 package. We have been banking them up for that purpose and of course needing a trip planned before pulling the trigger. Whether we redeem now depends on how they plan to let people us the hotel certificate after dynamic pricing becomes the practice. Unfortunately they probably won't share the necessary details before the 19th.


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## Mr. Vker (Jan 13, 2022)

dioxide45 said:


> We are sitting on 550K+ of MR points. This is enough for a five night category 8 package. We have been banking them up for that purpose and of course needing a trip planned before pulling the trigger. Whether we redeem now depends on how they plan to let people us the hotel certificate after dynamic pricing becomes the practice. Unfortunately they probably won't share the necessary details before the 19th.



 And certainly won't allow an extension on the cert if they keep the certs. So you'd have to use it in the next 12 months.


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## dioxide45 (Jan 13, 2022)

Mr. Vker said:


> And certainly won't allow an extension on the cert if they keep the certs. So you'd have to use it in the next 12 months.


I know. That is another reason I am wary of redeeming.


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## rthib (Jan 13, 2022)

They say they will have info soon, from Marriott “This information was published prematurely and we regret the error. We will have additional details for members in the coming days. Stay tuned”


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## jmhpsu93 (Jan 13, 2022)

dioxide45 said:


> I know. That is another reason I am wary of redeeming.


I'm in the same boat as you on this - we have over 800K with idea to do a Europe trip but I wasn't planning on 2022 being the time for it.


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## Fasttr (Jan 13, 2022)

Wait….what….they are going to devalue my 401(v)?   ;-)


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## wackymother (Jan 13, 2022)

I have a seven-night certificate that expires in October. I'm trying to figure out where to go with it. Quickly.


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## Steve Fatula (Jan 13, 2022)

jwalk03 said:


> I think so.  I would be very surprised if the dynamic pricing results in value gains even in low season.  Hopefully I'm wrong but I doubt it.



I'm actually expecting the opposite. We'll see!


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## dougp26364 (Jan 13, 2022)

Fasttr said:


> Wait….what….they are going to devalue my 401(v)?   ;-)



one day you’re a BonVoy millionaire, the next not so much


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## MULTIZ321 (Jan 13, 2022)

Marriott Travel Packages discontinued as of 1/19/22










						Marriott Travel Packages discontinued as of 1/19/22
					

As reported by View from the Wing, Marriott is discontinuing its “Flight and Hotel Awards” (colloquially known as “Marriott Travel Packages”) as of 1/19/22. These packages include a number of nights and airline miles and had already been devalued when Marriott and Starwood merged, but with the...




					frequentmiler.com
				





Richard


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## kds4 (Jan 14, 2022)

I guess the question for me is whether direct Bonvoy points conversion to airline miles gets me more per point 'value' versus doing it 'through' a travel package of miles and an accommodation certificate before 1/19/22?


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## ljmiii (Jan 14, 2022)

kds4 said:


> I guess the question for me is whether direct Bonvoy points conversion to airline miles gets me more per point 'value' versus doing it 'through' a travel package of miles and an accommodation certificate before 1/19/22?


That...and perhaps more importantly do you have any stay you can confidently book knowing you will use it. I find myself in a similar conundrum, I have points I've been saving to use on a travel package but no where/when to go in the next 11 months.


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## DRH90277 (Jan 14, 2022)

Earned "Lifetime Titanium Elite" status on the Marriott credit card - that's a lot of expenditures on the card.  

Very surprised by the Marriott Bonvoy changes and very disappointed by the absence of communication to card holders.  I haven't heard a "peep" from Bonvoy.  

It is not too hard to expect who will loose from the change in Bonvoy benefits.  But I would like to understand who profits from the Bonvoy benefit reductions.  Is it Chase, Marriott Corp, Marriott Vacation Club, a shared profit, etc.?  I hope the SEC makes them disclose the impact of the change in their financial statements.  

With lots of points accumulated, I need to determine whether it is worth staying with the Marriott Bonvoy credit card.  

Any thoughts?


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## Wanderlustgrl (Jan 15, 2022)

I wonder if they will bring them back once they figure out how dynamic pricing works into them? They had 5 and 7 night options so maybe they will now do hi and low season as well? I hope so as we have used these many times


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## dougp26364 (Jan 15, 2022)

Wanderlustgrl said:


> I wonder if they will bring them back once they figure out how dynamic pricing works into them? They had 5 and 7 night options so maybe they will now do hi and low season as well? I hope so as we have used these many times



Ive never really followed HHonors because I’ve never felt there was good or even decent value in their points. Hilton has had dynamic pricing for some time and I don’t believe they have travel packages of air and hotel. If that’s true and, if Marriott BonVoy actually does away with the air/hotel packages, I don’t look for them to ever come back.

Truth be told we’ve used the air/hotel combo all of once, and that was for a trip to Ireland. That’s over 20years of being a member. I have been eyeballing the possibility of using a package for a trip to Bozeman MT, as we have family in that area. Without the package I’ll likely just book an exchange through II instead. Exactly where or how I’ll use the 400,000 points we’ve accidentally accumulated (wasn’t trying to build up the account on purpose) I don’t know, but it’s as likely to be converted to airline miles as anything else. We just don’t use a lot of hotel nights because we own enough timeshare points/weeks we don’t need them, plus, when we do, I prefer something above the standard room, and BonVoy points hasn’t given me a lot of options with room selection anytime I’ve looked. It’s always been a room at the bottom of the comfort level.


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## kds4 (Jan 15, 2022)

dougp26364 said:


> Ive never really followed HHonors because I’ve never felt there was good or even decent value in their points. Hilton has had dynamic pricing for some time and I don’t believe they have travel packages of air and hotel. If that’s true and, if Marriott BonVoy actually does away with the air/hotel packages, I don’t look for them to ever come back.
> 
> Truth be told we’ve used the air/hotel combo all of once, and that was for a trip to Ireland. That’s over 20years of being a member. I have been eyeballing the possibility of using a package for a trip to Bozeman MT, as we have family in that area. Without the package I’ll likely just book an exchange through II instead. Exactly where or how I’ll use the 400,000 points we’ve accidentally accumulated (wasn’t trying to build up the account on purpose) I don’t know, but it’s as likely to be converted to airline miles as anything else. We just don’t use a lot of hotel nights because we own enough timeshare points/weeks we don’t need them, plus, when we do, I prefer something above the standard room, and BonVoy points hasn’t given me a lot of options with room selection anytime I’ve looked. It’s always been a room at the bottom of the comfort level.



So, from my calculations, a 'pure' Bonvoy points to FF miles conversion (outside of a travel package) costs 240k points to get 100k miles. This is based on 60k points getting 20k FF miles (plus a 5k FF bonus for redeeming 60k points). So, 60k points = 25k miles. Do that 4 times, and you spend 240k points for 100k FF miles.

The alternative approach using a 5 night travel package would cost 270k points for a Cat. 1-4 property. So, for 30k extra points, you get a 5 night accommodation certificate and 100k FF miles. That 5 night AC cost you 7,500 points per night for the 5 nights (based on the 5th night free when redeeming a 5 night points stay). A Cat. 1-4 package covers a lot of choices. For example, filtering to just 'pet friendly' properties where you can bring a pet, there are 574 Cat. 1-4 properties in the U.S. With Cat. 4 properties costing 30k points per night, even if you redeemed the accommodation certificate and stayed only one night you would 'break even'. Stay 2 or more nights of a 5 night AC at a Cat. 4 property and you begin realizing 'savings' for the points you spent on the travel package. I'm also not factoring the 10% United bonus for redemptions but that would apply to either approach so still 'apples to apples' math.

Some may think it overanalyzing, but I pinch points like I pinch pennies (where I can). So, decisions, decisions.


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## dougp26364 (Jan 16, 2022)

kds4 said:


> So, from my calculations, a 'pure' Bonvoy points to FF miles conversion (outside of a travel package) costs 240k points to get 100k miles. This is based on 60k points getting 20k FF miles (plus a 5k FF bonus for redeeming 60k points). So, 60k points = 25k miles. Do that 4 times, and you spend 240k points for 100k FF miles.
> 
> The alternative approach using a 5 night travel package would cost 270k points for a Cat. 1-4 property. So, for 30k extra points, you get a 5 night accommodation certificate and 100k FF miles. That 5 night AC cost you 7,500 points per night for the 5 nights (based on the 5th night free when redeeming a 5 night points stay). A Cat. 1-4 package covers a lot of choices. For example, filtering to just 'pet friendly' properties where you can bring a pet, there are 574 Cat. 1-4 properties in the U.S. With Cat. 4 properties costing 30k points per night, even if you redeemed the accommodation certificate and stayed only one night you would 'break even'. Stay 2 or more nights of a 5 night AC at a Cat. 4 property and you being realizing 'savings' for the points you spent on the travel package. I'm also not factoring the 10% United bonus for redemptions but that would apply to either approach so still 'apples to apples' math.
> 
> Some may think it overanalyzing, but I pinch points like I pinch pennies (where I can). So, decisions, decisions.



The packages have held great value if you have a trip where you need a hotel room for multiple nights. I’ve always felt they were the better way to travel the world more so than local travel, but there are localities not well covered by timeshare, such as Yellowstone National Park.


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## Steve Fatula (Jan 16, 2022)

dougp26364 said:


> The packages have held great value if you have a trip where you need a hotel room for multiple nights. I’ve always felt they were the better way to travel the world more so than local travel, but there are localities not well covered by timeshare, such as Yellowstone National Park.



Exactly, Zion was another example and we want to head to Kenya one of these years and that will be another example. As was Iguazu Falls in Argentina and many others for us.


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## l0410z (Jan 17, 2022)

In 1996, my Monarch unit with a MF of under 400 gave  me 135,000 points every year that got me 7 nights at any Marriott hotel anywhere.  I have enjoyed the travel packages and found them of great value.  In 2001, for 4400,00 pints we got 4 RT tickets to anywhere AA went in the world and 2 seven night stays.  The  one I did that got me a Southwest Champion pass was also great.  The 5/7 night component of the package allows  for  extensions beyond expiration which was useful.   This being said, I am no longer motivated by points or night stays.  I am lifetime platinum. I value the breakfast and room upgrade when available but am motivated  by convenience to travel location  and hotel cost.  The points program continues to change and I will continue to adjust but the cost to Marriott is a hit on my loyalty.  As long as the free night on my credit card saves me he cost of the credit card I will continue to keep it.  Marriott is doing what is good for Marriott.  No matter if I like it or not, I get it.


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## kds4 (Jan 17, 2022)

This morning, had a successful redemption for two 5-Night Cat. 1-4 travel packages (TPs). Probably the smoothest TP redemptions, I've made. Ashamed to think that just when Marriott gets the TP process down, they eliminate travel packages altogether.


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## dioxide45 (Jan 17, 2022)

Do we have any official word yet. I mean the Bonvoy spokesperson said "The information was published prematurely, and we regret the error. We will have additional details for members in the coming days”. The 19th is only two days away and it would seem the 18th is the last day to redeem. Categories aren't going away until March 2022, so perhaps they will keep the travel packages a little longer?


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## bogey21 (Jan 17, 2022)

l0410z said:


> In 1996, my Monarch unit with a MF of under 400 gave  me 135,000 points every year that got me 7 nights at any Marriott hotel anywhere.  I have enjoyed the travel packages and found them of great value.



I go back further than that.  In the 80s my Sabal Palms Week (bought pre-construction) could be exchanged for a week in a Marriott Hotel, roundtrip airfare (don't remember if it was for 1 or 2) and a week's car rental.  Clearly it was an enticement to buy.  After they started cutting back on this and devaluing other perks I saw the writing on the wall and sold pretty much getting back what I paid for my Week...

George


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## kds4 (Jan 17, 2022)

dioxide45 said:


> Do we have any official word yet. I mean the Bonvoy spokesperson said "The information was published prematurely, and we regret the error. We will have additional details for members in the coming days”. The 19th is only two days away and it would seem the 18th is the last day to redeem. Categories aren't going away until March 2022, so perhaps they will keep the travel packages a little longer?



The problem is that unless they are terminating the loyalty program, Marriott doesn't have to give any notice to make changes. "_All Loyalty Program benefits, amenities, offers, awards and services are subject to availability and may be changed by the Company at any time without notice."_ I'm guessing they planned to announce on January 20th that travel packages are going away on the 19th. 

At least if they terminate the loyalty program we'll get 6 months notice to burn up our points.


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## dioxide45 (Jan 17, 2022)

kds4 said:


> The problem is that unless they are terminating the loyalty program, Marriott doesn't have to give any notice to make changes. "_All Loyalty Program benefits, amenities, offers, awards and services are subject to availability and may be changed by the Company at any time without notice."_ I'm guessing they planned to announce on January 20th that travel packages are going away on the 19th.
> 
> At least if they terminate the loyalty program we'll get 6 months notice to burn up our points.


That was likely the plan. I also suspect that the "premature publishing" of this information was intentional. This seems to have happened a few times in the past. Either Marriott is incompetent or this is intentional. It is likely both.


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## dioxide45 (Jan 17, 2022)

kds4 said:


> So, from my calculations, a 'pure' Bonvoy points to FF miles conversion (outside of a travel package) costs 240k points to get 100k miles. This is based on 60k points getting 20k FF miles (plus a 5k FF bonus for redeeming 60k points). So, 60k points = 25k miles. Do that 4 times, and you spend 240k points for 100k FF miles.
> 
> The alternative approach using a 5 night travel package would cost 270k points for a Cat. 1-4 property. So, for 30k extra points, you get a 5 night accommodation certificate and 100k FF miles. That 5 night AC cost you 7,500 points per night for the 5 nights (based on the 5th night free when redeeming a 5 night points stay). A Cat. 1-4 package covers a lot of choices. For example, filtering to just 'pet friendly' properties where you can bring a pet, there are 574 Cat. 1-4 properties in the U.S. With Cat. 4 properties costing 30k points per night, even if you redeemed the accommodation certificate and stayed only one night you would 'break even'. Stay 2 or more nights of a 5 night AC at a Cat. 4 property and you begin realizing 'savings' for the points you spent on the travel package. I'm also not factoring the 10% United bonus for redemptions but that would apply to either approach so still 'apples to apples' math.
> 
> Some may think it overanalyzing, but I pinch points like I pinch pennies (where I can). So, decisions, decisions.


We have been looking to try to convert to a category 7 package. Nothing seems to be panning out. We are considering Europe but nothing lines up with a cruise we also want to take along with flights through the fewest countries. While these packages aren't as good as they once were, they are still better than the pure miles and point redemption.

For 100,000 air miles it costs 240,000 Bonvoy points (I suspect the 10% bonus on United still applies)
A category 7 five night stay is 240,000 (without dynamic pricing)
Total is 480,000 Bonsly
A category 7 five night travel packages is 430,000

So it looks like it will now cost an extra 50,000 miles (not factoring in dynamic pricing) to get the same deal. That is two extra timeshare presentations for us.


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## Steve Fatula (Jan 17, 2022)

dioxide45 said:


> So it looks like it will now cost an extra 50,000 miles (not factoring in dynamic pricing) to get the same deal. That is two extra timeshare presentations for us.



More than worth it for a free cat7 week in Europe! That's the way we do it, free points. Got some coming up the next 3 weeks! The packages work well esp in high value weeks.


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## jstoeber (Jan 17, 2022)

dioxide45 said:


> We have been looking to try to convert to a category 7 package. Nothing seems to be panning out. We are considering Europe but nothing lines up with a cruise we also want to take along with flights through the fewest countries. While these packages aren't as good as they once were, they are still better than the pure miles and point redemption.
> 
> For 100,000 air miles it costs 240,000 Bonvoy points (I suspect the 10% bonus on United still applies)
> A category 7 five night stay is 240,000 (without dynamic pricing)
> ...


Aren't airline miles currently 3 Bonvoy points per airline mile (3:1, except United 3:1.1)?


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## dioxide45 (Jan 17, 2022)

jstoeber said:


> Aren't airline miles currently 3 Bonvoy points per airline mile (3:1, except United 3:1.1)?


You get 25% bonus when you convert 60,000 Bonvoy. So for every 60,000 you convert, you get 25,000 miles.


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## Superchief (Jan 17, 2022)

bogey21 said:


> I go back further than that.  In the 80s my Sabal Palms Week (bought pre-construction) could be exchanged for a week in a Marriott Hotel, roundtrip airfare (don't remember if it was for 1 or 2) and a week's car rental.  Clearly it was an enticement to buy.  After they started cutting back on this and devaluing other perks I saw the writing on the wall and sold pretty much getting back what I paid for my Week...
> 
> George


When I bought my Royal Palms week, a key incentive was the ability to convert to 110K MR points every year.  Maintenance fees were about $400 at the time. 110K points could be redeemed for 7 nights at any resort worldwide, 2 RT airline tickets on Delta, 7 day car rental with Hertz, and a BOGO cruise certificate. We used these for several years for many enjoyable vacations. I don't think the points redemption changed for the first 10 years, and only changed after Bill Marriott stepped down. 
We kept Royal Palms because of the points redemption, but now never redeem for points. Now other family members enjoy staying there so it is worth keeping. The savings from free parking and no resorts fees almost cover the MF's.


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## Wanderlustgrl (Jan 17, 2022)

Yo


dougp26364 said:


> Ive never really followed HHonors because I’ve never felt there was good or even decent value in their points. Hilton has had dynamic pricing for some time and I don’t believe they have travel packages of air and hotel. If that’s true and, if Marriott BonVoy actually does away with the air/hotel packages, I don’t look for them to ever come back.
> 
> Truth be told we’ve used the air/hotel combo all of once, and that was for a trip to Ireland. That’s over 20years of being a member. I have been eyeballing the possibility of using a package for a trip to Bozeman MT, as we have family in that area. Without the package I’ll likely just book an exchange through II instead. Exactly where or how I’ll use the 400,000 points we’ve accidentally accumulated (wasn’t trying to build up the account on purpose) I don’t know, but it’s as likely to be converted to airline miles as anything else. We just don’t use a lot of hotel nights because we own enough timeshare points/weeks we don’t need them, plus, when we do, I prefer something above the standard room, and BonVoy points hasn’t given me a lot of options with room selection anytime I’ve looked. It’s always been a room at the bottom of the comfort level.


u will Iove Bozeman! We have family from their as well and love our time there for a wedding and a weeks vacation


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## dougp26364 (Jan 17, 2022)

Wanderlustgrl said:


> Yo
> 
> u will Iove Bozeman! We have family from their as well and love our time there for a wedding and a weeks vacation


 
live been twice. I’d move there if not for the cost of housing


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## DanCali (Jan 18, 2022)

DRH90277 said:


> Earned "Lifetime Titanium Elite" status on the Marriott credit card - that's a lot of expenditures on the card.
> 
> Very surprised by the Marriott Bonvoy changes and very disappointed by the absence of communication to card holders.  I haven't heard a "peep" from Bonvoy.
> 
> ...



I made lifetime Titanium with the help Starwood Amex card. It used to give 1 Starpoint per $ spend. After the Bonvoy 3:1 conversion that card now gives 2 Bonvoy points per $ spend. I used to use that card for everything. Now I just use it for Marriott charges. With the devaluation trend continuing on various other ways, even the non-Starwood people are reaching similar conclusions... too bad that greed ruined a great product.


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## jmhpsu93 (Jan 18, 2022)

Remind me again, if I purchase one today, when do I have to use the hotel stay by?  We're doing a river cruise in France in August of next year and I'd love to end it with a few days in Paris and get some United miles so we can fly biz class.


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## jtp1947 (Jan 18, 2022)

Hotel is good for one year from purchase of the package.


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## dioxide45 (Jan 18, 2022)

jmhpsu93 said:


> Remind me again, if I purchase one today, when do I have to use the hotel stay by?  We're doing a river cruise in France in August of next year and I'd love to end it with a few days in Paris and get some United miles so we can fly biz class.


The hotel certificate has a one year expiration. It won't work for next August unless they somehow extend due to travel restrictions, which I doubt will happen going forward.


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## hangloose (Jan 18, 2022)

I’m on the fence.  

Value of travel packages certainly goes farther and can be of higher value when compared to going after hotels individually. I’ve found the extra airline miles to be valuable….especially with limited business travel accumulation of points due to COVID.

But, I’m TBD on where to use the hotel package within 1 yr and am fairly confident they will not extend expiration.  Already have several II deposits and DC Pts to use up.

Hmm.  Is the verdict 1/19 is still the date.


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## dioxide45 (Jan 18, 2022)

My wife converted to a five night Category 7 travel package today. What a mess. They somehow requested and ordered two packages, so it sent her points balance into a HUGE negative (think -300K). She even received an email confirming both packages redeemed. They apparently had to open a case to fix it. She called back about an hour later and the person on the phone was able to fix it. Then the problem is that the reservation she made and had them attach the hotel portion to doesn't show a certificate attached and that it still needs points allocated to it at least 60 days in advance of the reservation.

I just wish you get hold of someone who doesn't know what they are doing that they would simply say so and pass it off to someone who does instead of trying to "wing it".


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## dioxide45 (Jan 18, 2022)

hangloose said:


> Hmm. Is the verdict 1/19 is still the date.


If the article and originally quoted T&C are accurate, then today (18th) was the last day. According to the "prematurely published" terms and conditions, they would no longer be available starting on the 18th


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## mjm1 (Jan 18, 2022)

We decided to get a Category 6 5-day package to use this fall. I called and the process went very smoothly. However, when I went to make the reservation the system wouldn't let me attach the certificate. I called Bonvoy back and the rep acknowledged that can happen. She made the reservation for me and attached the certificate. The first rep did not mention that there could be a problem. I'm just glad it worked out. The miles are suppose to appear in my airline account in a few days, so I will watch for that.

We have used several travel packages over the years and found them to be a great value. While the value has diminished I am sorry to see Marriott discontinue them if they in fact do.

Best regards.

Mike


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## Fi2 (Jan 18, 2022)

Two category 6, and two category 5 5-day packages just booked tonight have left us bonvoy points-poor, but will hopefully better preserve value in the form of flight miles, if going overseas still doesn’t make sense this summer.


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## DRH90277 (Jan 18, 2022)

I'll be interested to see how the Bonvoy people communicate this change to us and disappointed they haven't sent us an email.  So, we can just see what happens and decide next steps.  We have already lessened our use of the Bonvoy card in favor of other cards.  As I've said before, I like cash better than Vacation Club Points and now Bonvoy points.  

By the way, I like the simplicity of our no fee Fidelity Visa and the 2% that goes to an investment account each month.


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## alexb (Jan 19, 2022)

dioxide45 said:


> My wife converted to a five night Category 7 travel package today. What a mess. They somehow requested and ordered two packages, so it sent her points balance into a HUGE negative (think -300K). She even received an email confirming both packages redeemed. They apparently had to open a case to fix it. She called back about an hour later and the person on the phone was able to fix it. Then the problem is that the reservation she made and had them attach the hotel portion to doesn't show a certificate attached and that it still needs points allocated to it at least 60 days in advance of the reservation.
> 
> I just wish you get hold of someone who doesn't know what they are doing that they would simply say so and pass it off to someone who does instead of trying to "wing it".


I had same problem last week 8 call the last person raised a case file got an email 
telling me the guest certificate would be attached and points returned to my account 
still waiting for that to happen.


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## Armada (Jan 19, 2022)

The Travel Packages are no longer available. From Marriott's Bonvoy Terms and Conditions:

*3.14      Hotel and Air Travel Packages*

Effective January 19, 2022, Hotel and Air Travel Packages are no longer available for purchase. Information on existing Hotel and Air Travel Packages can be found here.

Here's their FAQ:
*Can I Still Order Travel Package Awards?*

No. Due to varying factors such as low volume in demand, we are no longer selling Travel Package Awards as of January 19, 2022.
*Q: What happens to the Travel Package Award I already have in my Account?*

If you have a Travel Package Award attached to an existing Reservation, rest assured, we will be honoring your stay and no additional action is required.

*Please Note:*  If you desire to make any changes to your Reservation after March 2, 2022, you must contact Member Support to cancel the Travel Package Award, after which, you will receive a full Marriott Bonvoy® Point refund for the Hotel portion of the Award.

If you have a Travel Package Award that isn't attached to a Reservation yet, you should contact Member Support by February 28, 2022 to attach your award to a Reservation. If your Travel Package Award remains unattached after February 28, 2022, the Hotel portion of your Travel Package Award will be automatically canceled and refunded in full to your Marriott Bonvoy® Account in Points on March 1, 2022.
Please visit https://www.marriott.com/help/loyalty-customer-support.mi to find the appropriate Member Support phone number based on your geographic location.

*Please Note:* The airline miles portion of the Travel Package Award was deposited to you at the time of purchase of the Travel Package Award and, therefore, will not be refunded.
*Q: What happens if I need to modify or cancel my Travel Package Award redemption Reservation between January 19, 2022 and February 28, 2022?*

You may modify or cancel a Travel Package Award redemption Reservation up until February 28, 2022 by contacting Member Support.
Please visit https://www.marriott.com/help/loyalty-customer-support.mi to find the appropriate Member Support phone number based on your geographic location.

After February 28, 2022, if a Travel Package Award is not attached to a Reservation, the Travel Package Award will be automatically converted to Marriott Bonvoy® Points on March 1, 2022 which will be deposited into the Member's Marriott Bonvoy® Account.
*Q: What happens if I need to modify or cancel my Travel Package Award redemption Reservation after March 2, 2022?*

If you modify or cancel a Redemption Reservation that has a Travel Package Award attached to it after March 2, 2022, you must contact Member Support to cancel the Travel Package Award, after which you will receive a full Marriott Bonvoy® Point refund for the Hotel portion of the Award. Please visit https://www.marriott.com/help/loyalty-customer-support.mi to find the appropriate Member Support phone number based on your geographic location.
*Q: How many Points will I be refunded?*

Members will receive a full Marriott Bonvoy® Points refund for the Hotel portion of the Travel Package Award. The refund will be based on the current Points redemption category levels and will equal the sum of the Peak Points Redemption Rate per each Night of the Travel Package Award, at the highest category for which the Award was eligible. The airline miles portion of the Travel Package Award was deposited to you at the time of purchase of the Travel Package Award and, therefore, will not be refunded.


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## bazzap (Jan 19, 2022)

Just posted by Marriott Bonvoy Insiders team


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## dioxide45 (Jan 19, 2022)

Armada said:


> *Q: How many Points will I be refunded?*
> 
> Members will receive a full Marriott Bonvoy® Points refund for the Hotel portion of the Travel Package Award. The refund will be based on the current Points redemption category levels and will equal the sum of the Peak Points Redemption Rate per each Night of the Travel Package Award, at the highest category for which the Award was eligible. The airline miles portion of the Travel Package Award was deposited to you at the time of purchase of the Travel Package Award and, therefore, will not be refunded.


So it seems that one could cancel their current certificate attached reservation, or just sit on it until after February 28th and get points back based on peak rates then turn around and make a standard points booking for less?


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## The Colorado Kid (Jan 19, 2022)

Ugh - Nights & Flights was a top reason we purchased our first Westin Flex from the developer for a planned retirement trip to Italy for DW.  Any chance it will be replaced with something comparable or is it all just generic Bonvoy points now?


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## Fasttr (Jan 19, 2022)

dioxide45 said:


> So it seems that one could cancel their current certificate attached reservation, or just sit on it until after February 28th and get points back based on peak rates then turn around and make a standard points booking for less?


That’s how I read it as well.


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## dioxide45 (Jan 19, 2022)

The Colorado Kid said:


> Ugh - Nights & Flights was a top reason we purchased our first Westin Flex from the developer for a planned retirement trip to Italy for DW.  Any chance it will be replaced with something comparable or is it all just generic Bonvoy points now?


I did the math, you can still convert separately to air miles and then hotel point redemption. For our category 7 five nigh package it would cost an extra 50,000 points. So the option is still there, just more expensive (point wise) now.


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## Armada (Jan 19, 2022)

"So it seems that one could cancel their current certificate attached reservation, or just sit on it until after February 28th and get points back based on peak rates then turn around and make a standard points booking for less? "

In March, Marriott is changing from categories to dynamic pricing. Most people are expecting the cost of awards to jump.


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## hangloose (Jan 19, 2022)

Seems like a partial positive, if you just wanted the airline miles 100k FF for 100k Bonvoy points...and then let go of the hotel side for a return of peak points prior to Feb 28th, right?


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## kds4 (Jan 19, 2022)

hangloose said:


> Seems like a partial positive, if you just wanted the airline miles 100k FF for 100k Bonvoy points...and then let go of the hotel side for a return of peak points prior to Feb 28th, right?



I don't believe they're valuing FF miles at a 1:1 ratio. I believe they are applying the normal FF conversion rate of 2.4:1 since a direct points to miles conversion costs 240k points to get 100k miles. In that case, for a 5 night Cat. 1-4 travel package that you spent 270k points to redeem, the value of the accommodation certificate portion is only 30k points and that is all that will be refunded to you for canceling/changing the reservation after 2/28/22.


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## dioxide45 (Jan 19, 2022)

kds4 said:


> I don't believe they're valuing FF miles at a 1:1 ratio. I believe they are applying the normal FF conversion rate of 2.4:1 since a direct points to miles conversion costs 240k points to get 100k miles. In that case, for a 5 night Cat. 1-4 travel package that you spent 270k points to redeem, the value of the accommodation certificate portion is only 30k points and that is all that will be refunded to you for canceling/changing the reservation after 2/28/22.


That isn't what the FAQ indicates. They will value the refund based on peak point pricing for the category.



Armada said:


> *Q: How many Points will I be refunded?*
> 
> Members will receive a full Marriott Bonvoy® Points refund for the Hotel portion of the Travel Package Award. The refund will be based on the current Points redemption category levels and will equal the sum of the Peak Points Redemption Rate per each Night of the Travel Package Award, at the highest category for which the Award was eligible. The airline miles portion of the Travel Package Award was deposited to you at the time of purchase of the Travel Package Award and, therefore, will not be refunded.


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## Fasttr (Jan 19, 2022)

dioxide45 said:


> That isn't what the FAQ indicates. They will value the refund based on peak point pricing for the category.


And it really doesn't say they take 5th night free into consideration, so it will be interesting if you get peak night award level points x 5 nights.


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## dioxide45 (Jan 19, 2022)

Fasttr said:


> And it really doesn't say they take 5th night free into consideration, so it will be interesting if you get peak night award level points x 5 nights.


Yeah, most FAQs create more questions than they answer.


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## GaryDouglas (Jan 19, 2022)

Interesting how most people, like 99.9999% of people, won't know about this until it's too late (like me) just happened.  Another reason why I've been more and more disenchanted with MRP and Marriott over the last few years...


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## hangloose (Jan 19, 2022)

GaryDouglas said:


> Interesting how most people, like 99.9999% of people, won't know about this until it's too late (like me) just happened.  Another reason why I've been more and more disenchanted with MRP and Marriott over the last few years...



Agree.  While I knew a few days in advance because I am invested and pay attention to everything Marriott/MVCI...and thanks to TUGgers also highlighting.....I still couldn't bite the bullet as I was unsure on confirming a hotel reservation for a 5 night within 1 yr that I truly could use.   I really hope in future Marriott Bonvoy shifts an element towards the positive for members without making changes like these without notice.  Really scummy to do so without any notice.   At least let people know in advance so they can choose to take advantage or not.


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## dioxide45 (Jan 19, 2022)

I like how these companies say "due to lack of demand". They dumb it down and devalue it to reduce demand then eliminate it because of lack of demand. Let's look at the root cause of the issue, not the symptom.

Cruise lines do this all the time too. Royal Caribbean got rid of chocolates during turndown service. They said most of them got thrown away. True, but if they hadn't cheapened the product by adding more and more wax over the years, people would have eaten them and they wouldn't have been thrown away.


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## rsackett (Jan 19, 2022)

I have an unattached 5-night Category 4 certificate that expires in July. If I am understanding the FAQ answers correctly, I should expect to receive 150,000 mrp (5 nights x 30,000 mrp/night, maybe 120,000, depending on 5th night free) deposited into my account? Is this what most of you expect to happen?

Ray


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## dioxide45 (Jan 19, 2022)

rsackett said:


> I have an unattached 5-night Category 4 certificate that expires in July. If I am understanding the FAQ answers correctly, I should expect to receive 150,000 mrp (5 nights x 30,000 mrp/night, maybe 120,000, depending on 5th night free) deposited into my account? Is this what most of you expect to happen?
> 
> Ray


Based on the FAQ, that is what I would expect to happen.


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## alexb (Jan 19, 2022)

dont think you will get anywhere near that .
i have the same packages that you have i think they offered me 10k or 50k total 
someone posted on another forum if you dont book by end of february it gets turned into points


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## kds4 (Jan 19, 2022)

dioxide45 said:


> That isn't what the FAQ indicates. They will value the refund based on peak point pricing for the category.



Considering that such a formula would be a complete departure from their past conduct (having had the hotel accommodation certificate portion of prior travel packages cancelled and refunded to my account as I described in my prior post - 30k points on a 270k points 5 night Cat. 1-4 package), and that it would be highly against their self-interest to value the hotel portion of a travel package the way their posted language is being interpreted, I will be shocked if they actually give back as many points for a cancelled accommodation certificate as the published language seems to indicate they will. Sure would be generous if they did, but I just can't see it. Hope they prove me wrong.


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## alexb (Jan 19, 2022)

So do I


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## GetawaysRus (Jan 19, 2022)

Here's an update from Gary Leff. That's the same fellow whose information I linked to in post #1 of this thread. Gary is usually accurate.









						Marriott Will Cancel All Outstanding Travel Package Stay Certificates On February 28 - View from the Wing
					

In explaining the no-notice elimination of air and hotel travel packages they say they cannot support category-based stay certificates once they eliminate award categories in March - so these packages go away, and any unused certificates can only be cancelled and converted back to points.




					viewfromthewing.com


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## dioxide45 (Jan 19, 2022)

kds4 said:


> Considering that such a formula would be a complete departure from their past conduct (having had the hotel accommodation certificate portion of prior travel packages cancelled and refunded to my account as I described in my prior post - 30k points on a 270k points 5 night Cat. 1-4 package), and that it would be highly against their self-interest to value the hotel portion of a travel package the way their posted language is being interpreted, I will be shocked if they actually give back as many points for a cancelled accommodation certificate as the published language seems to indicate they will. Sure would be generous if they did, but I just can't see it. Hope they prove me wrong.


I think the situation is different here. Marriott is cancelling the certificates instead of the member doing so voluntarily. They may be willing to take the small hit in extra points in order to maintain at least a small level of goodwill.


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## jeff76543 (Jan 20, 2022)

The Marriott Representative in Marriott Bonvoy Insiders confirmed that the refund will be based on the maximum point value of the hotel category multiplied by the number of days of the certificate, without deducting the bonus night. The example given was a 7 day category 8 certificate - the refund would be 100,000 points per night times 7 nights = 700,000 points!. I attach a screen shot of part of the exchange with the Marriott Bonvoy Representative. It seems that this will be the rate only if Marriott cancels the hotel certificate and not if the customer requests cancellation of the certificate before February 28 (or, perhaps, March 2).


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## jeff76543 (Jan 20, 2022)

Given the confirmation by the Marriott Bonvoy Representative regarding the rate for the point refund on the hotel certificates, it's pretty clear why Marriott didn't want to give advance notice about the cancellation of the travel packages.


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## wackymother (Jan 20, 2022)

jeff76543 said:


> Given the confirmation by the Marriott Bonvoy Representative regarding the rate for the point refund on the hotel certificates, it's pretty clear why Marriott didn't want to give advance notice about the cancellation of the travel packages.



That's what I'm thinking. They knew how many of these certificates were out there, they slammed the door on selling any more of them, and now they are willing to look generous on the finite number that are still floating around. 

I have a seven-night category 5 certificate that I was really struggling to use before its expiration date, so this solution works out really well for me.


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## Jeffrey (Jan 20, 2022)

Wish I had known this a few days earlier… Just tried to book two travel packages.  
What a bummer !  A further major devaluation for us!


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## dougp26364 (Jan 20, 2022)

There are reasons we don’t intentionally collect miles or rewards points. They are always losing value.

We do collect them, but as a side part of the everyday business of life. Much like comps at a casino, I won’t turn them down, but I won’t go out of my way to add more with the thought they have any significant value


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## Mr. Vker (Jan 20, 2022)

alexb said:


> dont think you will get anywhere near that .
> i have the same packages that you have i think they offered me 10k or 50k total
> someone posted on another forum if you dont book by end of february it gets turned into points



They gave those low ball offers when you wanted to cancel, not when Marriott was taking them. Two different animals. The former, they were revaluing the whole thing as a miles only award transaction and you were getting the penalty for the difference. Now, you have a cert with a certain value. They have to make whole on that at max potential value. Marriott has clearly published this-in media and in their direct communications.


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## Mr. Vker (Jan 20, 2022)

jeff76543 said:


> Given the confirmation by the Marriott Bonvoy Representative regarding the rate for the point refund on the hotel certificates, it's pretty clear why Marriott didn't want to give advance notice about the cancellation of the travel packages.



Yup they were probably really sorry when the advance notice snuck out


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## TheTimeTraveler (Jan 21, 2022)

Mr. Vker said:


> Yup they were probably really sorry when the advance notice snuck out




Yes, I am sure that particular employee is now looking for another job.........


.


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## frank808 (Jan 21, 2022)

I was thinking they would just let everyone use the certificates for what they book. No extensions and they expire one year out. Figure that would have been cheaper than converting them all back to max points.

Dang!! I could have bought 3 cat 8 packages and gotten 345k United miles for 150k Marriott points! We just had no where to use one, no less three, cat 8 seven night packages by Jan 18 2023. 

Well woulda, coulda, shoulda syndrome. For all those that got the travel packages, congratulations.

Sent from my SM-T290 using Tapatalk


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## Safti (Jan 29, 2022)

I think that's correct because I was told that a 5 night cat 5 is valued at 200K Bonvoy points. (40K x 5)


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## dioxide45 (Jan 29, 2022)

Has anyone tried attaching a certificate to a reservation? What does it look like online? We made a 5 night reservation and called to have it attached but online the reservation still shows we will need to have enough points 60 days in advance to keep the reward booking. When we call, they say the certificate is attached. I think we had this issue several years ago when we used a 5 night certificate, but I don't remember exactly what the issue was then.


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## mjm1 (Jan 29, 2022)

dioxide45 said:


> Has anyone tried attaching a certificate to a reservation? What does it look like online? We made a 5 night reservation and called to have it attached but online the reservation still shows we will need to have enough points 60 days in advance to keep the reward booking. When we call, they say the certificate is attached. I think we had this issue several years ago when we used a 5 night certificate, but I don't remember exactly what the issue was then.



Ours says the same thing. I had called in to get the 5 nights package and had to call back to have them attach the certificate to a reservation. They said they did that, but there is no note on the reservation to that effect.

Best regards.

Mike


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## Mr. Vker (Jan 31, 2022)

dioxide45 said:


> Has anyone tried attaching a certificate to a reservation? What does it look like online? We made a 5 night reservation and called to have it attached but online the reservation still shows we will need to have enough points 60 days in advance to keep the reward booking. When we call, they say the certificate is attached. I think we had this issue several years ago when we used a 5 night certificate, but I don't remember exactly what the issue was then.



You should be fine. The message I got was-in the past-something like-"the certificate type attached does not match the reservation". I always checked in without issue.


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## dgf15215 (Jan 31, 2022)

dougp26364 said:


> It’s possible this is an opinion piece bs fact checked.
> 
> As far as the availability of travel package deals in the future, I’ve wondered how Marriott will be able to do this with dynamic pricing. I’ve assumed, like the article, that they won’t. At the very least, these packages will likely change at some point, I just don’t see how with dynamic pricing. If they don’t change or they’re not discontinued, the package deal will likely be the best way to spend points.
> 
> If the6 do discontinue the packages, it will greatly impact the value of BonVoy points and, as a result, the value of either the Chase or AmEx BonVoy cards. At $499/year the AmEx card could lose a lot of value. Even using the $300 credit, which brings the cost down to $199, my bet is a lot of card holders,won’t see the value and will change to some other rewards program or cash back option


It seems like "The Points Guy" was really clear about the relative worthlessness of the BonVoy program once this change kicks in.  Then again, if you pay your Vacation Club fees and are getting the multiplier effect, you sort of have to stick with the BonVoy program for whatever it's worth.


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## dougp26364 (Feb 1, 2022)

dgf15215 said:


> It seems like "The Points Guy" was really clear about the relative worthlessness of the BonVoy program once this change kicks in.  Then again, if you pay your Vacation Club fees and are getting the multiplier effect, you sort of have to stick with the BonVoy program for whatever it's worth.


Now that they’ve officially killed the travel,packages, I’m moving my spending over to our Southwest Airlines and Delta airlines card. The free night certificate along with some of the other benefits will offset the cost of the card for now, but it won’t be the first card we use anymore and BonVoy points will fall into the same category as HHonors points as the most useless of the miles/points programs.


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## malago (Feb 9, 2022)

Any thoughts on how this system is going to change for point users.     So many ponts i have saved for the perfect trip and now this news.     Wondering if I should take a trip to Europe and use some of them.    Only thing keeping from doing this is the Covid travel restrictions.    Any thoughs from other travelers?


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## ljmiii (Feb 9, 2022)

Absolutely book something before March and push the travel as far into Summer or Fall as your schedule allows. I would assume that COVID will diminish over the Spring and Summer and some variant of COVID will once again return in the late fall.

From our 'What it's worth department', we're in the same boat. Points were saved for a flight and hotel package in summer of 2023 (though as it turns out I should have pulled the trigger, bought it, and pocketed the Bonvoy points refund).


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## TheTimeTraveler (Feb 9, 2022)

I'm afraid that Covid will be with us for a long, long time.   I would book now before the program changes.......



.


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## malago (Feb 9, 2022)

We have been looking forward to do Italy, Croatia and Greece and have been saving the points.     Now i have enough but the cloud of Covid is what is keeping us from taking this trip.


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## bizaro86 (Feb 9, 2022)

I would book it. You can always cancel but you probably won't be able to book at these prices ever again.


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## malago (Feb 9, 2022)

I heard mid September is a good time to go to Europe.


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## dgf15215 (Feb 10, 2022)

malago said:


> Any thoughts on how this system is going to change for point users.     So many ponts i have saved for the perfect trip and now this news.     Wondering if I should take a trip to Europe and use some of them.    Only thing keeping from doing this is the Covid travel restrictions.    Any thoughs from other travelers?




When "The Points Guy" said to spend our points now before they become seriously devalued as they will in March (I think it's March) we jumped on it and have spent down our points in hotels in more places than I can recall - my wife is one who did it - but we're in Ottawa, St. Andrews, Montreal all for five nights, then in Lyon, Zurich, Porto & Lisbon all for five nights. There may be some more I'm missing but you get the idea. We spent it down so far that we had to sit through a presentation in Hilton Head last week to get another 45,000 points to close the deal . . . which came through in a matter of days. So yes, the time to use the points is now before the changes come into play. We've used these points for many years now and they've been wonderful, but I think it's fair to assume that those days are coming to an end and that moving forward, your points will only have value at the worst times to use them and not be dependable from one day to another based on the individual property's inclinations. 

By the way, what we did see in Hilton Head was a batch of new properties as part of Vacation Club. They were listed along with everything else we're used to but I'm not sure it's online publically yet, I don't have time right now to look but they may be there. It wasn't a lot but they were interesting sites, we didn't see how many points they would take.


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## Fallenone (Feb 10, 2022)

They announced it sometime near the end of last year so it's not exactly news. I burnt about 900k points for several trips this year.


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## rickandcindy23 (Feb 10, 2022)

I just got the Marriott Brilliant Card.  This is not good news for me.  I have about 250,000 points + a certificate for a room up to 80,000 points that I haven't used yet.


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## tahoe (Feb 10, 2022)

rickandcindy23 said:


> I just got the Marriott Brilliant Card.  This is not good news for me.  I have about 250,000 points + a certificate for a room up to 80,000 points that I haven't used yet.


I also just got the Brilliant Card and feel a bit cheated since the welcome points will be devalued just a few months after I got the card.  :-(


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## elysium5 (Feb 11, 2022)

Marriott are following IHG and Hilton in ditching award charts and moving to dynamic pricing, i.e. where points values are linked to the cash price

I'm not as negative as most people. I think the points will still have a lot of value

I've just had some really good value IHG points redemptions. I booked some Holiday Inn nights in Florida. The cash rates were super expensive, but the points rates were still reasonable

The US is a really good place to use points, as cash rates are often really high. Conversely, places like Bali and Thailand are normally terrible places to use points - because cash rates are so cheap

FYI: The Points Guy articles are rarely any good these days. They're just trying to get you to click their affiliate links. I wouldn't dump 250k Bonvoy points based on what some 23 year old reporter at The Points Guy says!


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## dougp26364 (Feb 11, 2022)

For our purposes, it appears the value will be gutted. Because we have no real way to effectively use our points, I’ll keep an open mind and see what is real and what is fear after the change. We are HHI ours members as well. Fir all intents and purposes I find Hilton’s program mostly worthless. It’s one of the CC’s that stays mostly in the wallet, only used for car rentals and stays in the Hilton system.

we’ve never really collected points. Still, I have over 400,000 BonVoy points and had the intention of using them to purchase a travel certificate. Now? If the value really isn’t there, I’ll probably convert all our points to SWA miles and call it a day. The Marriott cards will be like out Hilton card and stay in the wallet except for Marriott stays.


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## elysium5 (Feb 11, 2022)

dougp26364 said:


> we’ve never really collected points. Still, I have over 400,000 BonVoy points and had the intention of using them to purchase a travel certificate. Now? If the value really isn’t there, I’ll probably convert all our points to SWA miles and call it a day. The Marriott cards will be like out Hilton card and stay in the wallet except for Marriott stays.



For the rest of 2022, Marriot will still use the old pricing bands for 97% of properties. So I think there is still value to be had

I used 50,000 Bonvoy points to book The Westin Hapuna Beach Resort. Cash price was $940. So I redeemed my Bonvoy pts for 1.80c each. At that level, your 400,000 Bonvoy pts could be worth $7,000. Given that this is a timeshare forum, most people will have other options to stay in Hawaii

If you can get yourself to the Maldives, you could try to stay at the St Regis. Cash rates are about $2,000/night, but are bookable for under 100,000 pts per night


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## frank808 (Feb 11, 2022)

elysium5 said:


> I used 50,000 Bonvoy points to book The Westin Hapuna Beach Resort. Cash price was $940. So I redeemed my Bonvoy pts for $1.80 each. At that level, your 400,000 Bonvoy pts could be worth $7,000.



I think you meant 1.8 cents and not dollars. 

Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk


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## elysium5 (Feb 11, 2022)

frank808 said:


> I think you meant 1.8 cents and not dollars.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk



I've edited the message


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## CalGalTraveler (Feb 11, 2022)

IMHO...Bonvoy has been on a race to the bottom on their devaluations. We booked W Verbier and Ritz Maui a few years ago for around 200k points. Now those same trips would be double that. Similar to timeshares, finding pockets of value have become more difficult. We are having difficulty using our 35k and 50k certs. There are many aspirational properties in the Marriott system that i would love to visit, however many are out of reach when I can book competitive hotels in the same locations with points certificates from HIlton (uncapped plus free breakfast) and IHG (no points charts but still good value redemptions).

Earn and burn has been my motto with Bonvoy but now with rapid devaluations I am questioning whether it is worth earning and whether we are better off collecting Sapphire points or cashback where we can make cash redemptions where and when we want to go.

We will downgrade our Brilliant when we receive the next anniversary cert this year (the monthly $20 meal option last year saved the card from downgrade) and will pick up another Hilton Aspire for the free uncapped nights at the Waldorf until they devalue that card. Onto the next horse!


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## bogey21 (Feb 11, 2022)

I started with Marriott back in the 80s when I bought a Sabal Palms Pre-Construction Week.  Shortly thereafter I bought Weeks at Harbour Club, Heritage and Monarch. Right after my Sabal Palms purchase, I started using my Marriott Rewards Card100% for my extensive business travels.  I earned and used tonnes and tonnes of points.  Ever since I went all-in Marriott it has been a steady devalue, devalue and devalue to the point I hardly recognize it today...

George


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## Ralph Sir Edward (Feb 11, 2022)

Worthless is relative. I use the Hilton Card, not because it's better, or even as good as others. Still, I get enough points from paying my Bay Club MFs for a free night, and so far I've spent enough to get a free night cert every year, as well as enough points for 1-2 more nights stay. if I start doing "timeshare lite" I'll be using Homewood Suites anyways (they often have 2 BDR/2 BTH suites) which will build more points. (i'd be send the money, anyways. . . )


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## CalGalTraveler (Feb 11, 2022)

Ralph Sir Edward said:


> Worthless is relative. I use the Hilton Card, not because it's better, or even as good as others. Still, I get enough points from paying my Bay Club MFs for a free night, and so far I've spent enough to get a free night cert every year, as well as enough points for 1-2 more nights stay. if I start doing "timeshare lite" I'll be using Homewood Suites anyways (they often have 2 BDR/2 BTH suites) which will build more points. (i'd be send the money, anyways. . . )



Don't you also get a free night cert with your Aspire Hilton card?

All of the systems have some good "Timeshare LIte" options. In IHG is Staybridge Suites which is our go-to in that system with better redemption values and frequently newer than Residence Inns. We have an upcoming points stay at a Homewood Suite to add an additional night to our Westin TS visit.

Key is to compare the cash vs. points options for the best value so having some points in each system helps.


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## dougp26364 (Feb 11, 2022)

There is a difference between worthless and mostly worthless. A free night for paying our MF’s is nice, but I can find better value using other cards for my needs than using the Hilton AmEx for all our purchases.

Both the Hilton and Marriott cards have been moved from the front of the wallet to the back. Not completely worthless, but mostly worth less than other options available to us


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## gsb (Feb 11, 2022)

I have a little different perspective on this and gladly admit I may well be wrong.  My wife and I have owned with MVC for more than 30 years. We both earned Lifetime Titanium through Bonvoy. We’ve earned and burned millions of points and have 2 million left. In the beginning we could get a lot more for our points. Even in the 1990’s 200,000 points would get us 7 nights anywhere in the world, with airline tickets and a rental car.  

Points were harder to come by then as well.  We had to either stay in a hotel or trade our MVC week to earn Rewards Points. We didn’t get any points or night credits for actually using our ownership weeks. In addition the cost of staying in hotels was much less.  In 2005, for example, we needed to stay in an suburban Atlanta Courtyard for a couple of weeks during a move and paid $49 a night for a 1BR suite. It would cost a lot more to stay there today.  Think of what you paid to stay in a hotel 20-30 years ago against the cost today. 

While it costs many more points to stay in a Marriott property today, points are far easier to come by.  Between hotel stays, credit cards, and promotions, it’s not hard to earn 150,000-200,000 points a year. We earn 100,000 just for paying maintenance fees.

I don’t know what’s going to happen in March but I know it won’t take long for the folks here to figure out how to game the system. and, while I’m never happy to see the program change, I figure Marriott doesn’t really owe me anything anyway. I am grateful that they have enabled us to see the world in ways we never dreamt possible. If the next 100,000 points gets me 1 night or 5 nights, I’m still choosing to be thankful.  After all, it could be worse. We used to both fly first class to Hawaii for 75,000 miles on Delta. Now it’s 200,000 plus each!  I’ll try to be grateful for that as well.


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## Steve Fatula (Feb 11, 2022)

We will definitely will still be using them. There’s always gems somewhere.

What is really devaluing these days for us is cash. Far worse.


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## Ralph Sir Edward (Feb 11, 2022)

CalGalTraveler said:


> Don't you also get a free night cert with your Aspire Hilton card?
> 
> All of the systems have some good "Timeshare LIte" options. In IHG is Staybridge Suites which is our go-to in that system with better redemption values and frequently newer than Residence Inns. We have an upcoming points stay at a Homewood Suite to add an additional night to our Westin TS visit.
> 
> Key is to compare the cash vs. points options for the best value so having some points in each system helps.


I only have the Surpass card. I didn't think I would use the extras enough to justify the extra $400/yr.


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## Ken555 (Feb 11, 2022)

elysium5 said:


> I redeemed my Bonvoy pts for 1.80c each.



IMO, 1.8c per point is poor. It’s become more common since the last devaluation, but it’s still not good. I compare affinity points to a 2% cash back credit card, so if I can get more value, substantially easier, by using a credit card why would I ever use a branded affinity card? Of course there are other considerations such as the annual free night(s) and other ways to earn points but ultimately I use the 2% as a guide when redeeming points.

Just this morning I reserved the Sheraton San Juan for later this year and it was only at a 1.65c rate, which is just bad, but it was convenient and I have way too many Bonvoy points. Then I received the email confirmation which stated there is a daily $55 fee even with award nights…and though I have a bunch of SNAs I was going to use there, I’m likely to cancel it.

I’m sure I will find value next year, it’s just going to get more difficult to do so. Traveling half way around the world to get a great redemption rate is not what I call convenient.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## Steve Fatula (Feb 11, 2022)

1.8c/pt is awesome. So, let's see... I charge $1000 to a Marriott and get 6,000 points at 1.8c each. That's $108. You get 2% cash, so, $20. I know what I would take in that scenario. Perhaps you forgot the 6 pts/$1?

For anyone here who *truly* believes worthless is an appropriate word, PM me and I'll take donations!


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## alhanna (Feb 11, 2022)

I am late to this topic and was not aware of the article from The Points Guy.

Can someone post a link?

We mainly use the Bonvoy points for airline miles. Should I be banking some now?

Will the 5 night packages available for timeshare owners still be available?


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## Steve Fatula (Feb 11, 2022)

I think the travel packages are all going away. Not sure but don't think airline miles conversion will be changing. That can be a great use on certain foreign routes esp.


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## Ken555 (Feb 11, 2022)

Steve Fatula said:


> 1.8c/pt is awesome. So, let's see... I charge $1000 to a Marriott and get 6,000 points at 1.8c each. That's $108. You get 2% cash, so, $20. I know what I would take in that scenario. Perhaps you forgot the 6 pts/$1?
> 
> For anyone here who *truly* believes worthless is an appropriate word, PM me and I'll take donations!



Almost all of my credit card spend is not at Marriott, so I calculate it at 2 points per dollar, not 6. Try again. 

1.8c is anything but awesome compared to a 2% cash back card unless, I suppose, you live at Marriott.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## dioxide45 (Feb 11, 2022)

Steve Fatula said:


> I think the travel packages are all going away. Not sure but don't think airline miles conversion will be changing. That can be a great use on certain foreign routes esp.


Travel packages are officially dead. No longer available for purchase. You can still create the travel package using points for hotel and airline mile conversion, but it takes a bunch more points. When you take into account dynamic pricing, it will get even worse.








						Bonvoy Award Charts and Travel Packages ending March 2022 [MERGED]
					

Hotel is good for one year from purchase of the package.




					tugbbs.com


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## dioxide45 (Feb 11, 2022)

Ken555 said:


> Almost all of my credit card spend is not at Marriott, so I calculate it at 2 points per dollar, not 6. Try again.
> 
> 1.8c is anything but awesome compared to a 2% cash back card unless, I suppose, you live at Marriott.
> 
> ...


Even if you used the same math of 1.8c but only on 2 points for $ on regular (non Marriott) spend you come out to $36 in value. I beleive going forward certain categories will permanently be 3 points per dollar; grocery, gas and dining (up to $6000).


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## rickandcindy23 (Feb 11, 2022)

We used 60,000 points for the Marriott Wailea (we are platinum elite), and we just got an email saying we get an upgrade to a king suite with an ocean view.  That suite for 2/14 is about $1,200 + tax.  We are happy with that.  

I have been to Residence Inns that were over 40,000 points for a night and rented for $140 a night.  If the values become more fair for that kind of thing, where the Residence Inn is less points.  I would just as soon stay at the Residence Inn.  The beds are comfortable enough.  I also like the kitchenette.  I have never stayed at a bad one.


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## VacationForever (Feb 11, 2022)

The points guy values Bonvoy points as .7 cent per point and I would agree with that.


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## Ken555 (Feb 11, 2022)

dioxide45 said:


> Even if you used the same math of 1.8c but only on 2 points for $ on regular (non Marriott) spend you come out to $36 in value. I beleive going forward certain categories will permanently be 3 points per dollar; grocery, gas and dining (up to $6000).



Yeah, that will teach me for typing without considering the details. For a number of years I use a spreadsheet I created to determine value for each potential award stay. The one I booked earlier today would have cost $606 for two nights or 75,000 points, which worked out to 1.62c per $ spent on the credit card. That's the % I was thinking of when responding earlier, so yes... 1.8c per point is excellent, but 1.8c per $ spent on a cc is not.

I miss Starwood. It was much easier back then to find hotels in the 2.x or even 3.x% value range.


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## Steve Fatula (Feb 12, 2022)

dioxide45 said:


> Travel packages are officially dead. No longer available for purchase. You can still create the travel package using points for hotel and airline mile conversion, but it takes a bunch more points. When you take into account dynamic pricing, it will get even worse.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Right they are gone. So, you are saying airline miles (not hotels just airline miles, not packages) conversions are changing? So, 3:1.1 for United is changing in other words?

Not so sure dynamic will be bad for us. We're not cat7+ folks for the most part, often do off season, use airline mile conversions, and often use for hotels (1 night) on long drives, generally cheapest Marriott. We'll see. Dynamic should mean winners and losers, likely more losers. Most of our Bonvoy points are also "free".

We use airline miles conversion so we never pay for out of US flights, the expensive ones.


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## Steve Fatula (Feb 12, 2022)

VacationForever said:


> The points guy values Bonvoy points as .7 cent per point and I would agree with that.



Sure, it's a good average. So, when you get more than that, it's better relatively. We rarely get <1c/pt.


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## Steve Fatula (Feb 12, 2022)

Ken555 said:


> Almost all of my credit card spend is not at Marriott, so I calculate it at 2 points per dollar, not 6. Try again.
> 
> 1.8c is anything but awesome compared to a 2% cash back card unless, I suppose, you live at Marriott.



If you want a single card, maybe. But this is timeshare forum, and we have timeshare fees. And I charge those fees at 6pts/$1 and it does add up, along with stuff charged to room 100 or so nights/year. I have 4 cards, each for a different purpose. for me, 2% is not very good but ymmv. And I always use cards when they give 5% like various Chase, Discover, etc. 

Definitely not simple though!


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## Ken555 (Feb 12, 2022)

Steve Fatula said:


> If you want a single card, maybe. But this is timeshare forum, and we have timeshare fees. And I charge those fees at 6pts/$1 and it does add up, along with stuff charged to room 100 or so nights/year. I have 4 cards, each for a different purpose. for me, 2% is not very good but ymmv. And I always use cards when they give 5% like various Chase, Discover, etc.
> 
> Definitely not simple though!



My comments were in regards to everyday expenses. 

Of course, for timeshare purposes a hotel card has value. I have several of them. I justify them in various ways, but primarily by the included annual night(s) and simply don’t worry about the rest. If I spent 100 nights a year in a Marriott property then I’m sure I would use the card (I use my Marriott cards when I stay there, of course). 

I don’t spend my time worrying which card has which bonus this quarter… I do have the AMEX Blue card for 6% cash back on groceries, but otherwise I don’t really care about dining bonuses or gas, etc. For my business, I use the 2% cash back as the default card (when for years I used my Starwood card, then Radisson…). Since 2020 I moved my purchases to the cash back card since it made no sense to accrue even more points in a devaluing currency (well, we could say that about the USD, too, but anyway…). In any case, I base my use of points against the 2% per $ value I can get from my cash back card and am pleased when I get more. 

I’m fairly sure my actual return is more than 2% due to the various bonuses I earn, such as the 6% you mention, but I don’t track it in such detail. I figure if I do better than the 2% I’m doing ok, and that’s all I care about. So a 1.6% return, such as the booking I made today (and then canceled), is poor.

I also have airline cards, but…well, that’s a different thread! 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## dioxide45 (Feb 12, 2022)

Steve Fatula said:


> Right they are gone. So, you are saying airline miles (not hotels just airline miles, not packages) conversions are changing? So, 3:1.1 for United is changing in other words?
> 
> Not so sure dynamic will be bad for us. We're not cat7+ folks for the most part, often do off season, use airline mile conversions, and often use for hotels (1 night) on long drives, generally cheapest Marriott. We'll see. Dynamic should mean winners and losers, likely more losers. Most of our Bonvoy points are also "free".
> 
> We use airline miles conversion so we never pay for out of US flights, the expensive ones.


No, as far as I know the 3:1 points to mile isn't changing.


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## Steve Fatula (Feb 12, 2022)

Makes sense. Business card is a whole other animal with different considerations. I used to charge all business expenses to an American Airlines card and ended up a million miler so have those benefits for life.

Yeah tell me about USD. Probably 2-3k more expensive this year for groceries, gas (ouch), car rentals in some (many?) areas, etc. HUGE hit for us at least, way beyond any claimed 7% rate.

Most of our Bonvoy points come from presentations, a glutton for punishment.


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## Ken555 (Feb 12, 2022)

Steve Fatula said:


> Most of our Bonvoy points come from presentations, a glutton for punishment.



Then you’ve earned them!


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## elysium5 (Feb 12, 2022)

gsb said:


> Points were harder to come by then as well.  We had to either stay in a hotel or trade our MVC week to earn Rewards Points. We didn’t get any points or night credits for actually using our ownership weeks. In addition the cost of staying in hotels was much less.  In 2005, for example, we needed to stay in an suburban Atlanta Courtyard for a couple of weeks during a move and paid $49 a night for a 1BR suite. It would cost a lot more to stay there today.  Think of what you paid to stay in a hotel 20-30 years ago against the cost today.



There has been massive points inflation on both the earning side and the spending side. Sign up bonuses of 100k point in the US are common these days (sadly not in the UK, where I live). So it's not a surprise to see them increasing the costs of redemptions too

It's not in Marriott's interest to make their points completely valueless. They want their customers to spend $50 more to stay at their hotels, because they know customers are saving their points to stay at the Ritz Carlton Tokyo or St Regis New York


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## elysium5 (Feb 12, 2022)

Ken555 said:


> Yeah, that will teach me for typing without considering the details. For a number of years I use a spreadsheet I created to determine value for each potential award stay. The one I booked earlier today would have cost $606 for two nights or 75,000 points, which worked out to 1.62c per $ spent on the credit card. That's the % I was thinking of when responding earlier, so yes... 1.8c per point is excellent, but 1.8c per $ spent on a cc is not.


This is part of the game. Complexity and revaluations make it more and more difficult to assess value, unless you have a PhD in maths. It also makes it more likely that customers will cash out of their points at poor value

I'm a numerate person and I enjoy looking at details (hence my attraction to timeshare), but I can see why people get annoyed by points and miles


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## tahoe (Feb 12, 2022)

FYI - Bonvoy Boundless VISA card now adds 1 elite night per $5K spend.  Some variation of this was removed a few years back.




__





						Marriott Bonvoy Boundless® Credit Card | Earn and Redeem
					

Earn unlimited Marriott Bonvoy  points when you use your Marriott Bonvoy Boundless® Credit Card on everyday purchases. Plus, you earn 6X points at Marriott Locations worldwide. Plus use your points towards complimentary stays at Marriott locations, airline miles, travel perks, shopping and so...



					creditcards.chase.com


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## CalGalTraveler (Feb 12, 2022)

rickandcindy23 said:


> We used 60,000 points for the Marriott Wailea (we are platinum elite), and we just got an email saying we get an upgrade to a king suite with an ocean view.  That suite for 2/14 is about $1,200 + tax.  We are happy with that.
> 
> I have been to Residence Inns that were over 40,000 points for a night and rented for $140 a night.  If the values become more fair for that kind of thing, where the Residence Inn is less points.  I would just as soon stay at the Residence Inn.  The beds are comfortable enough.  I also like the kitchenette.  I have never stayed at a bad one.



We have found some Residence Inn "timeshare lite" that have good value and that is where we are using our points for now. We also have used for some TS Westins but those are getting more expensive pointswise. IMHO...some Res Inn properties are in need of renovation compared to IHG StayBridge Suites which tend to be newer and updated but they are not bad. I like the kitchens and roominess to accommodate family.  Courtyards and hotel rooms feel like work and are not relaxing.


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## dougp26364 (Feb 12, 2022)

We have a hotel room booked at the SFO Westin coming up, so I thought I’d look at points requirements now and see if I could burn some points. IMHO just no value when they want 50,000 points for a room that’s $135. It equates to a lousy .0027 cents/point. The Loft is a little better at .0038 cents/point.

This is based on the current grid, so maybe with dynamic pricing the ratio of cost per point will be better. The big question for me is, will MVC fix the value/point? IOW, if the value they assign a point is one cent per point (figure pulled out of the air), will that allow quick calculation as to how many points will be required for any stay? For instance, if the room rate is $135, then it would take 13,500 points to book that room. If the room rate was $200, then it would take 20,000 points.


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## Vacation1 (Feb 12, 2022)

Even just using points can be a problem - some hotels allocate only a few rooms for points redemption. Once they are taken you cannot use points to book a reservation and must use the cash rate - specifically last weekend in September Newport RI - no availability to book with points at the Newport Marriott.


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## CalGalTraveler (Feb 12, 2022)

dougp26364 said:


> We have a hotel room booked at the SFO Westin coming up, so I thought I’d look at points requirements now and see if I could burn some points. IMHO just no value when they want 50,000 points for a room that’s $135. It equates to a lousy .0027 cents/point. The Loft is a little better at .0038 cents/point.
> 
> This is based on the current grid, so maybe with dynamic pricing the ratio of cost per point will be better. The big question for me is, will MVC fix the value/point? IOW, if the value they assign a point is one cent per point (figure pulled out of the air), will that allow quick calculation as to how many points will be required for any stay? For instance, if the room rate is $135, then it would take 13,500 points to book that room. If the room rate was $200, then it would take 20,000 points.



You raise a good point. The less expensive rate hotels will become more reasonable to book. On the flip side, we can expect aspirational hotels to skyrocket. We are staying at a Westin Riverfront later this month and I just checked the room rate at $2600 / night.


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## dioxide45 (Feb 12, 2022)

If the point value is based strictly on dollar cost of the room, then I could see lower tier properties going down in point values. That won't likely be the case. I don't expect to see many properties decrease point values. The properties already know how little Bonvoy pays them on redemptions, they won't want a pay cut. Expensive properties are what I expect to go up. I wonder if the point level pricing will be left up to the individual properties or if Bonvoy will provide them with some guidelines to go by.


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## Ken555 (Feb 12, 2022)

elysium5 said:


> This is part of the game. Complexity and revaluations make it more and more difficult to assess value, unless you have a PhD in maths. It also makes it more likely that customers will cash out of their points at poor value
> 
> I'm a numerate person and I enjoy looking at details (hence my attraction to timeshare), but I can see why people get annoyed by points and miles



We've been discussing this same topic on TUG for what seems to be decades. You just got here. 

For myself, as I wrote, I just think of the 2% per $ as the redemption goal in order for it to equate with a cash back credit card (and if I don't do better than 2% on average for all my bookings each year, I review the the value of keeping the card - for the last two years I've justified it by the included night). If I was looking at a pure points valuation, I would agree with others that reference TPG and their current recommendation of 0.08 (https://thepointsguy.com/guide/monthly-valuations/).


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## elysium5 (Feb 12, 2022)

Ken555 said:


> We've been discussing this same topic on TUG for what seems to be decades. You just got here.


Did you reach a conclusion?!

In all seriousness, I'm glad to be here - it's a great community of friendly people.


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## Steve Fatula (Feb 12, 2022)

elysium5 said:


> Did you reach a conclusion?!
> 
> In all seriousness, I'm glad to be here - it's a great community of friendly people.



Welcome to TUG!


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## Steve Fatula (Feb 12, 2022)

CalGalTraveler said:


> You raise a good point. The less expensive rate hotels will become more reasonable to book. On the flip side, we can expect aspirational hotels to skyrocket. We are staying at a Westin Riverfront later this month and I just checked the room rate at $2600 / night.



Points stay? How many points did it cost?


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## CalGalTraveler (Feb 12, 2022)

Steve Fatula said:


> Points stay? How many points did it cost?



280,000 Bonvoy Point + $200 resort fees + parking. Got the 5th night free.


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## Steve Fatula (Feb 12, 2022)

CalGalTraveler said:


> 280,000 Bonvoy Point + $200 resort fees + parking. Got the 5th night free.



That's quite an awesome conversion rate then!


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## CalGalTraveler (Feb 12, 2022)

Steve Fatula said:


> That's quite an awesome conversion rate then!



 We booked this prior to the 2021 devaluations. We got a similar deal for W Verbier in 2020. The points are twice that now so out of reach. It was a good bucket list trip.


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## TheTimeTraveler (Feb 12, 2022)

CalGalTraveler said:


> 280,000 Bonvoy Point + $200 resort fees + parking. Got the 5th night free.




Will the 5th night continue to be free under the new set up next month, or is that one of the benefits that also disappear?



.


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## dioxide45 (Feb 12, 2022)

TheTimeTraveler said:


> Will the 5th night continue to be free under the new set up next month, or is that one of the benefits that also disappear?


No announcement on that. With dynamic pricing, I suspect it will be the cheapest night that will be free, but we shall see.


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## Steve Fatula (Feb 12, 2022)

CalGalTraveler said:


> We booked this prior to the 2021 devaluations. We got a similar deal for W Verbier in 2020. The points are twice that now so out of reach. It was a good bucket list trip.



i dunno, but with that conversion rate, even double points would be worth it. Of course, you'd have to have that many, would take a while!


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## CalGalTraveler (Feb 12, 2022)

Steve Fatula said:


> i dunno, but with that conversion rate, even double points would be worth it. Of course, you'd have to have that many, would take a while!



Yes considering the Brilliant only comes with 100k points new card bonus. That's a lot of spend for a 5 night stay! We are using up the last of our SPG stash so it's good to know that it is going to good redemptions.


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## TheTimeTraveler (Feb 12, 2022)

tahoe said:


> FYI - Bonvoy Boundless VISA card now adds 1 elite night per $5K spend.  Some variation of this was removed a few years back.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Does anyone accurately know what Chase charges for the Bonvoy Boundless VISA card ?   i.e. the annual fee?



.


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## VacationForever (Feb 12, 2022)

TheTimeTraveler said:


> Does anyone accurately know what Chase charges for the Bonvoy Boundless VISA card ?   i.e. the annual fee?
> 
> 
> 
> .


$95 per year.


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## Venter (Feb 13, 2022)

After reading this post I thought of trying to use our points. We don't have many as we use it wherever we can because value keeps lowering.  I was able to book Fri and Sat at the Westin Riverfront Hotel, President's day weekend, for a total of 140 000 points.  The room was advertised at $1500 per night.

I think opportunities like this will definitely not exist anymore after going to dynamic pricing.


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## CalGalTraveler (Feb 13, 2022)

@Venter great catch. What kind of room did you book? 1 bedroom? Studio with fireplace? Hotel room?

If I calculate that Bonvoy points are 1.8 cents per point (as indicated earlier in this thread) those rooms would come out to $1260/night based on points value per night (compared to the $1500 on the site.).  On top of that I believe there is a resort fee and parking fee pf $35/night which adds to the cost. So yes, the points required would be higher after dynamic pricing. This is a devaluation of aspirational properties.

This analysis suggests to book everything aspirational possible before March deadline and use Bonvoy points going forward for smaller non-aspirational redemptions where the rates are low and value may be better. Better to get a 2% card and only collect Bonvoy for 6x and other bonus purchases that exceed the 2% cash floor. This will also support keeping a smaller Bonvoy balance for these smaller redemptions.

By my calculations: Even with paying $3000 MF at 6x that is only 18,000/points per MF. That would take almost 4 years of MF to earn one 70,000 point night. (but perhaps I am overlooking something here?)


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## Venter (Feb 13, 2022)

CalGalTraveler said:


> @Venter great catch. What kind of room did you book? 1 bedroom? Studio with fireplace? Hotel room?



It was a hotel room king-size with pull out sofa.


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## rsackett (Feb 25, 2022)

Has it been announced how the new system will work without catagories?  Has anyone predicted that value each point will be worth in the new system?  The last I heard under the old system points were worth about $0.007 each.

What are your thoughts?

Ray


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## jwalk03 (Feb 25, 2022)

The Points Guy valuation on the current system is $0.008.  I don't think anyone can know what the new valuation will be until the change actually happens since the awards will all be dynamic and not set pricing per night.


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## rthib (Feb 25, 2022)

Here is some official news

What Are Flexible Point Redemption Rates and Free Night Award Top Off?




__





						Marriott Bonvoy Customer Service and Online Help
					






					help.marriott.com
				




And here are the resorts that will have an increase in minimum points, some going up by 30,000 points
Hotels With Minimum Redemption Rate Adjustments





						Marriott Bonvoy Customer Service and Online Help
					






					help.marriott.com


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## bizaro86 (Feb 25, 2022)

jwalk03 said:


> The Points Guy valuation on the current system is $0.008.  I don't think anyone can know what the new valuation will be until the change actually happens since the awards will all be dynamic and not set pricing per night.



Points guy has an incentive to set their valuations high - if people think the points are valuable more of them will sign up for credit cards. And cc sign-up referrals is their business.

The market price of bonvoy points is already lower than 0.8 cents under the current system, and think it's reasonable to expect it to drop further.


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## Steve Fatula (Feb 26, 2022)

rsackett said:


> Has it been announced how the new system will work without catagories?  Has anyone predicted that value each point will be worth in the new system?  The last I heard under the old system points were worth about $0.007 each.
> 
> What are your thoughts?
> 
> Ray



Points guy provides an average typical rate. However, what you get for them to some extent is up to you. Seen them at 4 cents+, seen them way under .007. Depends where you use them. I suspect there will not be broad ranges of value under the new system but it's anyones guess how it will turn out.

All I can say, is I have yet to go under .008. Almost always above 1 cent. I don't really care what someone values them at. My value is what I get for them.


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## Fallenone (Feb 26, 2022)

If used for some high cash priced nights, they can worth way more than 1c/pt, even going up to nearly 4c/pt. If not, they worth about 0.5ct/pt or less. I usually get about 1-1.5c/ pt when I use them. With the change, Marriott's intention seems to be devaluing it for the high end but maybe increasing the value on the lower end. The list of confirmed changes seem to confirm that. I would expect the average value for stays outside aspirational hotels would actually increase, but the value for those high end luxury stays will be slashed by more than half.


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## jwalk03 (Feb 26, 2022)

bizaro86 said:


> Points guy has an incentive to set their valuations high - if people think the points are valuable more of them will sign up for credit cards. And cc sign-up referrals is their business.
> 
> The market price of bonvoy points is already lower than 0.8 cents under the current system, and think it's reasonable to expect it to drop further.



maybe but I have used it as my baseline.  If the value is below that I pay cash and above that I use the points.  It’s certainly possible to get way less value or way more value than that!!

I booked a stay in Maine last Summer with such a high cash rate that I got over 2.5 cents per point!!  We’ll see how it changes the value with the new dynamic pricing….


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## CalGalTraveler (Feb 26, 2022)

Dynamic Pricing Starts next month. There are a number of blogs like this one listing the properties that will increase by 30k a night.

Making a speculative reservation before this unfolds will avoid a devaluation. What are you booking prior to the deadline?









						Marriott Bonvoy Changes Going Live March 29, 2022
					

Marriott Bonvoy will introduce dynamic award pricing as of March 29, 2022. Here are the full updated details of what to expect.




					onemileatatime.com
				




Here is a way to see the entire Bonvoy lowest rate calendar to help plan.









						Marriott Lowest Rate Calendar: Just in time for dynamic pricing
					

Marriott has now added a "lowest rates calendar" that is viewable directly in search results, just in time for dynamic pricing.




					frequentmiler.com


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## jwalk03 (Feb 26, 2022)

TheTimeTraveler said:


> Does anyone accurately know what Chase charges for the Bonvoy Boundless VISA card ?   i.e. the annual fee?
> 
> 
> 
> .


$95


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## rickandcindy23 (Feb 26, 2022)

I am booking nothing right now but am considering Swan and Dolphin for October.  I really had no plans to go anywhere, except our daughter-in-law really wants to go to Vancouver in September.  I could look at that as a possibility.


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## CalGalTraveler (Feb 26, 2022)

@rickandcindy23 Suggest that you speculatively book Swan/Dolphin before the dynamic pricing hits and then if the price / points go down you can always cancel and rebook at the lower price. However if the price goes up, you have locked in the best points rate.


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## rickandcindy23 (Feb 26, 2022)

Vancouver it is!  Booked with my points.


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## rickandcindy23 (Feb 26, 2022)

Can you still transfer to United Airlines like this article suggests:









						How To Transfer Marriott Points To Airline Partners
					

In the hotel points and airline miles world, it’s almost never a good value to transfer points between programs. That’s because the transfer rates are generally set so that you’ll lose a significant amount of value from the transfer. However, Marriott Bonvoy is the exception to this rule.  There a




					www.forbes.com


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## Steve Fatula (Feb 26, 2022)

rickandcindy23 said:


> Can you still transfer to United Airlines like this article suggests:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



It's often a very good use of points and should be unaffected by the upcoming changes which are supposed to be hotel only. So, should be no devalue. I have used these transfers for things like free flight to Thailand, etc. The bonuses make it quite nice.


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## Superchief (Feb 27, 2022)

I noticed that the Townplace Suites and Springhill Suites in Whitefish and Kalispell are both going up substantially. Both were already high, but this is a good location for West Glacier Park visit. The Townplace is relatively new and very nice.


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## kds4 (Mar 1, 2022)

Well, it's March 1st and the window to use travel package accommodation certificates to make a reservation has supposedly passed with a 'points refund' coming for the cancellation of all ACs that are not tied to reservations. Has anyone seen any points refunds? If you had any ACs that you had not used for a 5 or 7 night reservation, are they still in your Bonvoy account?


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## TXTortoise (Mar 1, 2022)

Still have one in my account, showing expiration 6.30.2022.


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## NJDave (Mar 2, 2022)

I still have the 5 night certificate in my account


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## TXTortoise (Mar 3, 2022)

mine just changed... “part Package 5 Nights up to 15,000 points, expiring 30 Jun 2022”

This was on the mobile app and assume a major typo of "15,000" vs "150,000".  Checking on web, but website is flakey at the moment for logins, etc.


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## VacationForever (Mar 3, 2022)

Does anyone know when we can add points to existing free night certificates for a reservation which requires more points than the certificates?


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## frank808 (Mar 4, 2022)

VacationForever said:


> Does anyone know when we can add points to existing free night certificates for a reservation which requires more points than the certificates?


Was told sometime in March but read somewhere it is now going to be in April.

Sent from my SM-T290 using Tapatalk


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## Fi2 (Mar 4, 2022)

My travel packages now each say “5 nights up to 200,000 (or 300,000, depending on the categories ordered) pts and up to 110,000 ff miles”


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## dioxide45 (Mar 4, 2022)

Fi2 said:


> My travel packages now each say “5 nights up to 200,000 (or 300,000, depending on the categories ordered) pts and up to 110,000 ff miles”


Did they refund the points, or just issue a new certificate?


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## Fi2 (Mar 4, 2022)

dioxide45 said:


> Did they refund the points, or just issue a new certificate?


No refund, and still an expiration date of a year out from when I ordered the packages. I’ll have to call and ask. when I get a chance (tomorrow?)


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## TXTortoise (Mar 4, 2022)

My 5-night Cat 4 say 15,000 points, expect it’s a typo and should be 150k. Yet another phone call.


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## dioxide45 (Mar 4, 2022)

The revelation of how they are converting unused certificates doesn't seem to line up with what was said in the FAQ;

_After February 28, 2022, if a Travel Package Award is not attached to a Reservation, the Travel Package Award will be automatically converted to Marriott Bonvoy® Points on March 1, 2022 which will be deposited into the Member's Marriott Bonvoy® Account._

It looks like they are issuing new certificates good for the full amount of points. The drawback is that they have to all be used at the same time and by the same expiration date as the original certificate?


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## TXTortoise (Mar 4, 2022)

Just called and opened a trouble ticket on my Cat 4 showing 15,000 points. Such a hassle.

Dioxide, do you have a link to the FAQ on cert?

Tried to get two free night carts from 2020 and 2021 expiring 30 June to be extended 30 days. No luck. Was hoping my only year as Titanium might help.


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## dioxide45 (Mar 4, 2022)

TXTortoise said:


> Just called and opened a trouble ticket on my Cat 4 showing 15,000 points. Such a hassle.
> 
> Dioxide, do you have a link to the FAQ on cert?
> 
> Tried to get two free night carts from 2020 and 2021 expiring 30 June to be extended 30 days. No luck. Was hoping my only year as Titanium might help.


I don't have a link. I just took that from a few pages back where someone copied and pasted it.


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## Fi2 (Mar 4, 2022)

dioxide45 said:


> The revelation of how they are converting unused certificates doesn't seem to line up with what was said in the FAQ;
> 
> _After February 28, 2022, if a Travel Package Award is not attached to a Reservation, the Travel Package Award will be automatically converted to Marriott Bonvoy® Points on March 1, 2022 which will be deposited into the Member's Marriott Bonvoy® Account._
> 
> It looks like they are issuing new certificates good for the full amount of points. The drawback is that they have to all be used at the same time and by the same expiration date as the original certificate?



I just got off the titanium line, where I confirmed that refunds were and still are intended, but due to “technical difficulties” in providing them, Marriott issued these new certificates as a merely temporary measure. The rep couldn’t provide any guesstimate as to when the actual refunds would be completed, but I was assured that I needn’t worry about my late Jan ‘23 deadlines.


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## Steve Fatula (Mar 5, 2022)

Ah, Marriott IT strikes again!!


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## rsackett (Mar 6, 2022)

TXTortoise said:


> My 5-night Cat 4 say 15,000 points, expect it’s a typo and should be 150k. Yet another phone call.


That is what my cat 4 5 night certificate shows as well.


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## TXTortoise (Mar 6, 2022)

rsackett said:


> That is what my cat 4 5 night certificate shows as well.


Lovely, don’t know whether that’s good or bad, but at least consistent.


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## bogey21 (Mar 6, 2022)

It is not just Marriott, but everybody is doing it.  All these devaluations are criminal.  Not in the legal sense, but criminal anyway....

George


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## DRH90277 (Mar 6, 2022)

Marriott Bonvoy points - They have devalued the points and continue with changes to the detriment of point earners and holders.  I'm not happy about Marriott Bonvoy actions.  So, I am "de-participating" by using another credit card that pays me 2% cash back on the charges each month (directly to my bank account).  I will, however, use up the devalued points I have and use the Bonvoy card to pay maintenance fees and Marriott purchases (where multiple points are given per dollar).  

This is all ok.  So, "Bon voyage to reaching for the Bonvoy card first."


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## Safti (Mar 6, 2022)

Apparently we will be receiving points instead of our TP's beginning the middle of next week. They will be doing this in batches. Devaluation is March 29th. You will be able to add up to 15K points to an e certificate towards the end of April.


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## kds4 (Mar 7, 2022)

TXTortoise said:


> mine just changed... “part Package 5 Nights up to 15,000 points, expiring 30 Jun 2022”
> 
> This was on the mobile app and assume a major typo of "15,000" vs "150,000".  Checking on web, but website is flakey at the moment for logins, etc.


We've heard alot about these certs "being converted to points" if unattached after the deadline date. Some have thought it would be a direct refunding of points to their owner accounts and the ACs being cancelled/deleted. Now I'm wondering if this is actually what Marriott meant...your cert now gets X number of points value (which may mean a devaluation regarding the actual properties you will be able to redeem the 5 or 7 nights at ... and if you can't/don't use it in the remaining allotted time with these less favorable points based values, then they'll cancel/delete them and not have to refund us anything). #Bonvoyed


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## kds4 (Mar 7, 2022)

Fi2 said:


> I just got off the titanium line, where I confirmed that refunds were and still are intended, but due to “technical difficulties” in providing them, Marriott issued these new certificates as a merely temporary measure. The rep couldn’t provide any guesstimate as to when the actual refunds would be completed, but I was assured that I needn’t worry about my late Jan ‘23 deadlines.


Hope you're right.


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## CalGalTraveler (Mar 7, 2022)

Don't forget to book your credit card free night certs. (If you find something better you can always cancel and redirect to another property)

Best uses for Marriott free night certificates (⏱Book these now!) (frequentmiler.com)


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## VacationForever (Mar 7, 2022)

CalGalTraveler said:


> Don't forget to book your credit card free night certs. (If you find something better you can always cancel and redirect to another property)
> 
> Best uses for Marriott free night certificates (⏱Book these now!) (frequentmiler.com)


Between the 2 of us, we have 6 free nights from credit card + 75-night bonus.  However, where we are going all require more points than 5 of the certificates, hence we are waiting on Marriott to change their system to allow members to add up to 15K per certificate.  We are utilizing these 6 nights in May when my friend comes to visit us.


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## jeff76543 (Mar 10, 2022)

My two 5 night hotel certificates from travel packages have been transferred back into points. As promised  the transfer is at the maximum daily point rate times 5 days.


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## Fasttr (Mar 10, 2022)

jeff76543 said:


> My two 5 night hotel certificates from travel packages have been transferred back into points. As promised  the transfer is at the maximum daily point rate times 5 days.


Cha ching!!


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## Fi2 (Mar 10, 2022)

I’m so relieved, and grateful, to report that our four hotel certificates were also just converted back to bonvoy points, mitigating our sense of loss due to the discontinuation of travel packages.


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## rsackett (Mar 10, 2022)

jeff76543 said:


> My two 5 night hotel certificates from travel packages have been transferred back into points. As promised  the transfer is at the maximum daily point rate times 5 days.



 I got mine too!

Ray


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## Sandy VDH (Mar 10, 2022)

I got my 7 N non-marriott package returned.  Considering the original value when I booked it was considered 45K and now it is valued at 210K I guess I can live with that.  I knew they were discontinued but did not read any farther, I didn't realize they were going to get rid of them, period.


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## PamMo (Mar 10, 2022)

I just got an email that my 5-night Cat 6 certificate was cancelled, per my request. We’re on vacation right now and I was thinking, “Whaaat?” It was converted to 300,000 Bonvoy points.


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## kds4 (Mar 10, 2022)

jeff76543 said:


> My two 5 night hotel certificates from travel packages have been transferred back into points. As promised  the transfer is at the maximum daily point rate times 5 days.


Same here. So, unused accommodation certs were refunded for just the value of the certificate (not the cost of the overall travel package as some had speculated- which would have meant getting the airline miles for 'free'). Instead folks didn't come out 'ahead' and paid for the miles (no differently than if they had just converted Bonvoy points to FF miles). Marriott didn't do anyone any favors.


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## Fi2 (Mar 12, 2022)

kds4 said:


> folks didn't come out 'ahead' and paid for the miles (no differently than if they had just converted Bonvoy points to FF miles). Marriott didn't do anyone any favors.



But the cost of the FF miles associated with our canceled travel packages was much less than the nominal conversion rate of 3 bonvoy points to 1FF mile!


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## kds4 (Mar 12, 2022)

Fi2 said:


> But the cost of the FF miles associated with our canceled travel packages was much less than the nominal conversion rate of 3 bonvoy points to 1FF mile!



Fair point. For one of my travel packages, I spent 270k hotel points for a 5 Night Cat. 1-4 certificate and 100k miles. I was refunded 150k hotel points for the unattached 5 night accommodation certificate leaving me paying 120k hotel points for 100k airline miles. Had I just converted hotel points directly to miles, I would have spent 240k points for the 100k miles. So, using your example I came out 'ahead' in the comparative cost of how I bought the miles.


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## craigc (Mar 30, 2022)

Anticipating the change to dynamic pricing (which looks like it started today), I booked the JW in Costa Rica to add to a week at Los Suenos MVC in Feb 2023. I booked it 30 days or so ago at 240k points (book 5, pay for 4) anticipating it to go up after the change.  Today, I re-booked for 156k points! So, I saved 84k points after the change to dynamic pricing. December - April is high season so I assumed it would have gone up.  I did also look at one of our favorite Marriotts for Feb 2023, the Wailea Beach Resort and it went from 340k pts  (category 8) to 379k pts.....10% more but, I expected more of a jump. 

So, if you booked ahead of the change to dynamic pricing using points assuming that they points required would go up, it might be worth rechecking.


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## billhall (Mar 30, 2022)

I booked the Westin Maui a few weeks ago for 5 nights in Sept., didn't purchase with points yet. Yesterday it went from 240K points to 344K.
Luckily I did confirm&pay the Wailea before it increased.


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## VacationForever (Mar 30, 2022)

I am still waiting for when Marriott will enable adding points to existing certificates.  We have 6 expiring certificates in June and have 2 rooms booked for 3 nights in May.  I am really hoping that I can add points to the certificates before our May trip.  For now, these rooms are booked with regular points.


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## GetawaysRus (Mar 30, 2022)

I saw this blog post today explaining that some properties may have gone DOWN in points pricing: 









						Marriott Dynamic Pricing: Check Existing Reservations For Cheaper Pricing
					

Marriott's dynamic award pricing has resulted in cheaper award stays at many properties & higher cents per point value too.




					frequentmiler.com
				




So I checked our upcoming hotel award reservations. Several would have required more points, but one had gone down. So I rebooked a fall stay at the JW Marriott in Nashville and got 18,000 points back. That's not a huge win, and certainly not nearly as good as craigc mentioned a few posts above, but I'll take it.


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## dioxide45 (Mar 30, 2022)

We only had one come down in points cost. Saved us only 1,000 points by rebooking.


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## igopogo (Mar 30, 2022)

On Sunday I booked Zion nov 3-6 for 150k (three certificates), today it’s 197k.  Thanks TUG!  This wouldn’t have been on my radar.

Now to see if anything in Europe came down from outer space.


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## Steve Fatula (Mar 30, 2022)

craigc said:


> Anticipating the change to dynamic pricing (which looks like it started today), I booked the JW in Costa Rica to add to a week at Los Suenos MVC in Feb 2023. I booked it 30 days or so ago at 240k points (book 5, pay for 4) anticipating it to go up after the change.  Today, I re-booked for 156k points! So, I saved 84k points after the change to dynamic pricing. December - April is high season so I assumed it would have gone up.  I did also look at one of our favorite Marriotts for Feb 2023, the Wailea Beach Resort and it went from 340k pts  (category 8) to 379k pts.....10% more but, I expected more of a jump.
> 
> So, if you booked ahead of the change to dynamic pricing using points assuming that they points required would go up, it might be worth rechecking.



Always winners and losers. That's a big win! The article posted by GatewaysRus show some decent ones too, and curious high $/pt. But it is strange that yours is not an off season and it went significantly down. It will be fascinating to see overall program $/pt estimates after a few months. And to see what gems are out there. There will no doubt be many losers. But good to see it's not always as bad as was discussed here on Tug, you know how we get. Kind of handy those whose points went up under the new system can keep their old rate, while those that went down can rebook and take the new lower rate.

You have some nice trips coming up!


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## Steve Fatula (Mar 30, 2022)

igopogo said:


> On Sunday I booked Zion nov 3-6 for 150k (three certificates), today it’s 197k.  Thanks TUG!  This wouldn’t have been on my radar.
> 
> Now to see if anything in Europe came down from outer space.



The Springhill or somewhere else? Love that place if so. That one was always expensive.


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## craigc (Mar 30, 2022)

Steve Fatula said:


> Always winners and losers. That's a big win! The article posted by GatewaysRus show some decent ones too, and curious high $/pt. But it is strange that yours is not an off season and it went significantly down. It will be fascinating to see overall program $/pt estimates after a few months. And to see what gems are out there. There will no doubt be many losers. But good to see it's not always as bad as was discussed here on Tug, you know how we get. Kind of handy those whose points went up under the new system can keep their old rate, while those that went down can rebook and take the new lower rate.
> 
> You have some nice trips coming up!


I also had a week booked in Orange County, CA with my daughter in July of this year.  It was 120k points when booked a few months ago, I rebooked today at 112k. Not huge but every point counts


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## daviator (Mar 30, 2022)

A month ago I booked five nights in late November at the Marriott Waikaloa Beach on the big island of Hawaii.  Lowest cash price was $706/night and I was able to get the five nights (Including the one “free”) for 200,000 Bonvoy points, which I already thought was a pretty great deal on a $/point basis.  I congratulated myself for getting in before the elimination of points charts sent the points value skyrocketing. 

Today I checked again, out of curiosity, expecting the cost to be higher.  The cash price is the same at $706/night, but the Bonvoy points cost had come down to 178,000 points total for five nights.  So I cancelled and rebooked at the reduced price.

it doesn’t make sense to me, but I’m happy to get about 2¢/Bonvoy point, which is nearly triple what conventional wisdom says they are worth.


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## igopogo (Mar 30, 2022)

Steve Fatula said:


> The Springhill or somewhere else? Love that place if so. That one was always expensive.


Springhill.  I went through the list of 50k point properties that were going up, and it appealed to me the most.  I’m very excited, my 17 year old (who will be 18) loves to hike so I think we are in for a good trip.

I would have used my certs in Europe but there are four in the family and that put us well over 50k per night anywhere we’d want to be.


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## Fasttr (Mar 30, 2022)

These are some dynamic changes.   See what I did there.  ;-)


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## trev111t (Mar 30, 2022)

I booked a 5 night (MVC package) category 5 hotel package back in January. If it is canceled, I recall that Marriott is refunding points equivalent to the highest nightly rate for the category. Can anyone confirm what this number is? 
I ask because I see that I can book the same 5 nights with points for 152,000 bonvoy points and wondering if it is less than the 5 night package refund.


Sent from my SM-S908U using Tapatalk


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## dioxide45 (Mar 30, 2022)

trev111t said:


> I booked a 5 night (MVC package) category 5 hotel package back in January. If it is canceled, I recall that Marriott is refunding points equivalent to the highest nightly rate for the category. Can anyone confirm what this number is?
> I ask because I see that I can book the same 5 nights with points for 152,000 bonvoy points and wondering if it is less than the 5 night package refund.
> 
> 
> Sent from my SM-S908U using Tapatalk


Is it based on Peak or Standard? I don't recall exactly. I think cat 5 was were 35,000/40,000 points per night. So you could get 40,000x5 back or 200,000 total. We are in a similar situation, but I don't know how long after you cancel the reservation that they cancel the certificate and issue the points back. Availability could be gone by that time. If you have the points sitting there, just make a new points reservation then cancel the old and they will at some time refund the points.


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## BigDawgTUG (Mar 30, 2022)

Saved 21,000 Bonvoy points rebooking three Bonvoy reservations - Vancouver (3 nights), Sydney (2 nights) and Sydney (1 night).


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## trev111t (Mar 30, 2022)

dioxide45 said:


> Is it based on Peak or Standard? I don't recall exactly. I think cat 5 was were 35,000/40,000 points per night. So you could get 40,000x5 back or 200,000 total. We are in a similar situation, but I don't know how long after you cancel the reservation that they cancel the certificate and issue the points back. Availability could be gone by that time. If you have the points sitting there, just make a new points reservation then cancel the old and they will at some time refund the points.


Thank you for the reply. I rebooked for 152,000 with points that I have and instantly had a 5 night award certificate worth up to 200,000 points show up upon canceling the previous booking. It has an expiration date of January 2023. 
Still came out ahead (assuming I make a 5 night high point value reservation), but wish it was refunded as pure points, not tied to a 5 night certificate. 

Sent from my SM-S908U using Tapatalk


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## dioxide45 (Mar 30, 2022)

trev111t said:


> Thank you for the reply. I rebooked for 152,000 with points that I have and instantly had a 5 night award certificate worth up to 200,000 points show up upon canceling the previous booking. It has an expiration date of January 2023.
> Still came out ahead (assuming I make a 5 night high point value reservation), but wish it was refunded as pure points, not tied to a 5 night certificate.
> 
> Sent from my SM-S908U using Tapatalk


I suspect at some point in time that five night cert will cancel and convert to the appropriate point value. Let us know if and when that happens.


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## billhall (Mar 30, 2022)

I would check into this more, there were threads on the Flyertalk Marriott forum and of course here on TUG.  I cancelled my TP reservation in Feb and used points directly instead, so the TP was ready to be refunded . Marriott refunded the TP (Cat6/5 day) at 300,000 points on 3/10.     (The original cost was 390k points and 100k air miles).

   I would check since a lot of the discussion was that they would run a "batch" of refund/credits  after Mar 1.... and I would be worried that it was a 1 time deal meaning that Marriott IT probably wouldn't set up anything to handle refunding  detached TP from reservations as an ongoing thing.
Hopefully, that's not the case but Marriott IT has been shaky these last few years or so.

  I'm still bothered that they pulled the Travel Packages with a "tiny" notice and such a flimsy excuse as: "they aren't used much anymore - (Baloney.).."   That's not the Marriott I became loyal to with years of business trips and stays leading us to a high level of trust and then purchase of the Timeshare product.   An example of the old Marriott is when the Kauai Beach Club flooded and lost the parking lot (large sinkholes) and much more damage to the resort (a river was running thru the resort). The story from the onsite manager said Bill Marriott said "Fix it" gave something like $10 million to take the resort back to what it had been and assigned his #1 troubleshooter to manage the recovery. It took a while but I don't think there was much (any?) of an assessment as it had been our 1st timeshare purchase and something like that was financially scary for us.


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## dioxide45 (Mar 30, 2022)

billhall said:


> I would check since a lot of the discussion was that they would run a "batch" of refund/credits after Mar 1.... and I would be worried that it was a 1 time deal meaning that Marriott IT probably wouldn't set up anything to handle refunding detached TP from reservations as an ongoing thing.
> Hopefully, that's not the case but Marriott IT has been shaky these last few years or so.


IIRC, the FAQ did seem to indicate that if you cancelled a reservation that had a certificate attached, that it would somehow be converted to points. They would have to have some type of system setup to refund these. Though with Marriott, who knows.


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## trev111t (Mar 31, 2022)

dioxide45 said:


> IIRC, the FAQ did seem to indicate that if you cancelled a reservation that had a certificate attached, that it would somehow be converted to points. They would have to have some type of system setup to refund these. Though with Marriott, who knows.


Checked this morning and the 200,000 pure points refunded from the travel package! Saved 48,000.

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## dioxide45 (Mar 31, 2022)

trev111t said:


> Checked this morning and the 200,000 pure points refunded from the travel package! Saved 48,000.
> 
> Sent from my SM-S908U using Tapatalk


Before you cancelled yesterday, did your reservation even look like it had a certificate attached to it? That is an issue we have with ours. It indicates there isn't enough points and no certificate attached, but when we call they say everything is good to go. Something about these 5/7 night certificates that don't look like they are attached online when they really are.


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## trev111t (Mar 31, 2022)

dioxide45 said:


> Before you cancelled yesterday, did your reservation even look like it had a certificate attached to it? That is an issue we have with ours. It indicates there isn't enough points and no certificate attached, but when we call they say everything is good to go. Something about these 5/7 night certificates that don't look like they are attached online when they really are.


My original package didn't show a certificate redemption on the bonvoy site, but instead showed as if I redeemed the 310,000 in total for the hotel stay. (310,000 was for the 5 night cat 5 and 100,000 air miles package). 
So it looked like I had a terrible redemption for 310,000 points for the 5 night stay. 

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## dioxide45 (Mar 31, 2022)

trev111t said:


> Thank you for the reply. I rebooked for 152,000 with points that I have and instantly had a 5 night award certificate worth up to 200,000 points show up upon canceling the previous booking. It has an expiration date of January 2023.
> Still came out ahead (assuming I make a 5 night high point value reservation), but wish it was refunded as pure points, not tied to a 5 night certificate.
> 
> Sent from my SM-S908U using Tapatalk


Where did you see the five night award certificate show back up after you cancelled? We cancelled our reservation with a certificate and can't see anywhere in the Bonvoy site that the certificate appears.


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## trev111t (Mar 31, 2022)

dioxide45 said:


> Where did you see the five night award certificate show up. We cancelled our reservation with a certificate and can't see anywhere in the Bonvoy site that the certificate appears.


From my memory (since it's no longer listed), it was listed under 'Activity' on the bonvoy page at the top of the page in a small box near the bonvoy point total. This morning, there is the refund showing the 200,000 credit. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




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## dioxide45 (Mar 31, 2022)

trev111t said:


> From my memory (since it's no longer listed), it was listed under 'Activity' on the bonvoy page at the top of the page in a small box near the bonvoy point total. This morning, there is the refund showing the 200,000 credit.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks. I was kind of expecting to see is show up in the same location I can see Suite Night Awards, but we don't see it there. I don't really see it anywhere else on any of the screens. We will just wait till tomorrow to see if the points just show back up before we worry about calling Bonvoy. That will be a hassle.


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## dioxide45 (Apr 1, 2022)

We had a few reservations go down and a couple go up. I wonder if what we are seeing with drops and no major increases right now in points is more about PR and avoiding bad publicity? If they were to yank up the point costs for certain properties, you know there would be lots of bloggers out there to call them out. So Marriott may lay low for a little while, then when nobody's watching anymore, WHAM. Big devaluation with dynamic pricing.


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## Fallenone (Apr 2, 2022)

Not all that bad. Re examined my 13 trips already booked for this year, selective rebooking saved me close to 100k points.


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## CalGalTraveler (Apr 3, 2022)

Here's our results:

3 Data Points:

1) Sheraton Steamboat Villas for Feb 2023 ski season. We booked at 35k/night pre-dynamic. Now 60k per night. We'll keep original reservation: We booked 6 nights at 175,000 points (1 night free) vs. 300,000 points (1 night free). That's a saving of 125k points.

2) Portland Residence Inn Memorial Day. Was 35k (used 35k cert). Now reduced to 33k (will still use cert since it will expire in June.) Pretty much the same.

3) Grand Chateau Spring 2022 Was 47,000/night Bonvoy for a 1 bdrm, Now 57,000/night


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## kds4 (Apr 5, 2022)

We rebooked a stay in Saint George, UT for this August. Original 5 night reservation was 150k. New 5 night reservation was 138k. Not complaining about getting 12k points back in our Bonvoy account.


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## dioxide45 (Apr 5, 2022)

I posted about this in the other thread about dynamic pricing, but if one is sitting on a reservation made with one of these hotel certificates you may be able to come out ahead on points by cancelling your current reservation with the certificate attached and making a new one. Price out a straight points reservation first on Marriott.com to confirm the amount of points it will take. If it is lower than the certificate you have attached then you can save points. Make the new points reservation first before cancelling the old reservation. The hotel certificate should be returned to your account and then at some point it will also be cancelled and you will get the appropriate amount of points back in your Bonvoy account.

For 5-night certificates would receive back;
Cat 1-4 - 150,000 
Cat 5 - 200,000
Cat 6 - 300,000
Cat 7 - 350,000
Cat 8 - 500,000

7 Night certificates you would receive back;
Cat 1-4 - 210,000
Cat 5 - 280,000
Cat 6 - 420,000
Cat 7 - 490,000
Cat 8 - 700,000


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## kds4 (Apr 5, 2022)

dioxide45 said:


> I posted about this in the other thread about dynamic pricing, but if one is sitting on a reservation made with one of these hotel certificates you may be able to come out ahead on points by cancelling your current reservation with the certificate attached and making a new one. Price out a straight points reservation first on Marriott.com to confirm the amount of points it will take. If it is lower than the certificate you have attached then you can save points. Make the new points reservation first before cancelling the old reservation. The hotel certificate should be returned to your account and then at some point it will also be cancelled and you will get the appropriate amount of points back in your Bonvoy account.
> 
> For 5-night certificates would receive back;
> Cat 1-4 - 150,000
> ...



Not sure about this math. I had two Cat 1-4 certs refunded but only received 120k (4x30k), not 150k. The 5th night was considered free and not included in the refund calculation.


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## dioxide45 (Apr 5, 2022)

kds4 said:


> Not sure about this math. I had two Cat 1-4 certs refunded but only received 120k (4x30k), not 150k. The 5th night was considered free and not included in the refund calculation.


Interesting. Somewhere it was reported, perhaps Marriott Insider, that you should get back the Peak number of points multiplied by the number of nights of the certificate. We cancelled a reservation with a cat-7 five night cert and received 350K back. Others have reported similar experiences. TPG article about Marriott ending the packages indicates that you should receive the amount of points equal to five nights;

_Wolf told TPG that members who do not redeem the seven-night hotel stay part of the package by this date will have their package canceled, and the total hotel part will be refunded in points based on peak pricing. So if you redeemed 570,000 points for a Category 7 stay and 100,000 airline miles, you would be refunded 490,000 points._









						Marriott is officially ending Hotel + Air travel packages — here's what to do if you have a booking - The Points Guy
					

Marriott is ending hotel and air Travel Packages. Here's what to do if you have an existing booking.




					thepointsguy.com


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## dioxide45 (Apr 8, 2022)

Now with dynamic pricing, it is best to keep checking your reservations and see if they have gone down in points. Just like with cash stays, point values are now changing. We just rebooked a night that saved us 4,000 points. Had just checked it the other day and it was the same point rate as when we had booked it.


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## Steve Fatula (Apr 8, 2022)

I got to believe tons of rebookings are not going to save Marriott much money. But, it's likely just us TUG folks that would do so.


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## dioxide45 (Apr 8, 2022)

Steve Fatula said:


> I got to believe tons of rebookings are not going to save Marriott much money.


How would any rebookings save Marriott money? People aren't rebooking for higher point costs.


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## Steve Fatula (Apr 9, 2022)

dioxide45 said:


> How would any rebookings save Marriott money? People aren't rebooking for higher point costs.



They wouldn't, my point was I wonder if Marriott thought about the issue, i.e., if thousands are rebooking to save pointd, did they account for that in the design of the program, do they really want a ton of phone calls. Will the points guy and other bloggers start telling people to check daily, etc. Their changes could end up costing money was what I was implying. Then again, it may just be us Tuggers who are saavy enough to check. Just pondering.


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## Fasttr (Apr 12, 2022)

TPG special analysis: What impact did Marriott's changes really have on the value of Bonvoy points? - The Points Guy
					

Marriott has switched to dynamic pricing. Here's what you need to know about the value of your points.




					thepointsguy.com


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## Ken555 (Apr 12, 2022)

Fasttr said:


> TPG special analysis: What impact did Marriott's changes really have on the value of Bonvoy points? - The Points Guy
> 
> 
> Marriott has switched to dynamic pricing. Here's what you need to know about the value of your points.
> ...





> That said, it’s important to note that many properties fall below this average. Specifically, mid-tier properties in Europe and some high-end properties in the U.S. had lower average values than the overall average.



This is what concerns me. I spent part of last week searching for certain European cities, and I tend to prefer casual hotels when in Europe, and all the hotels which were category 4 or 5 that I selected require more points now. I found one to use a couple credit card awards but even that was tricky since it required one 40k and one 35k award to fit, since many previously category 5 hotels are now 37 or 39k for the dates I was searching and the number of hotels available at <40k was less than before. Of course, many category 5 hotels were at their full 40k for some time so this won’t surprise many of you, but it is still irritating that the ability to use 35k award certs in prime locations is getting more difficult.


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## dioxide45 (Apr 12, 2022)

Ken555 said:


> This is what concerns me. I spent part of last week searching for certain European cities, and I tend to prefer casual hotels when in Europe, and all the hotels which were category 4 or 5 that I selected require more points now. I found one to use a couple credit card awards but even that was tricky since it required one 40k and one 35k award to fit, since many previously category 5 hotels are now 37 or 39k for the dates I was searching.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


I have noticed this about many hotels. They are priced just above the award levels of those CC free night certificates. It has been said that we should be able to add points to those certificates to book hotels that are higher than the amount those certs allow or that we should be able to convert the certificates to straight Bonvoy points, but I haven't seen any mention of how to do that yet.


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## Ken555 (Apr 12, 2022)

dioxide45 said:


> I have noticed this about many hotels. They are priced just above the award levels of those CC free night certificates. It has been said that we should be able to add points to those certificates to book hotels that are higher than the amount those certs allow or that we should be able to convert the certificates to straight Bonvoy points, but I haven't seen any mention of how to do that yet.



There was a quote I read that stated that feature should start sometime soon. I had been waiting to book a hotel for it for June, and since the change that hotel price had also increased, so now I have to reconsider that stay altogether. 

It will take me some time, perhaps even a year or more, to fully determine if I am able to make the new dynamic pricing work for me or not. So far, I’m unimpressed. I’m tempted to put up a site for travelers to post their sightings (since it’s dynamic, and likely will be even less consistent next year), though not sure it would be worth my time.


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## Steve Fatula (Apr 12, 2022)

So, what about the conclusion bold added by me where it says:

"When we average all properties together, we’re left with an average value of 0.84 cents per point.
*This is actually higher than our previous valuation of 0.8 cents per point*. And it shows that, based on these 50-plus properties, there’s still value to be had."

There are several places in the list of hotels where they said there was good value that we may visit. But it sounds as if there may be subsets if I read Ken555 correctly where the value has dropped.

There was one on the list that showed a terrible value. Momi Bay Fiji. This is a generous resort when it comes to upgrades though (talked to a few others about their experiences). I went there on Bonvoy points, and, they did double upgrades, SNA and Bonvoy status upgrade. That changed the math completely as the over water bure was vastly more expensive cashwise than the cheap hotel room. Value skyrocketed to many cents per point.

But I agree maybe a year from now we'll be able to get a better feel as people use the system more. Been several examples in this thread about better value, been several about worse value. I have not used any yet, but, will be curious to see points rate at my driving hotels where I stay on the road during a trip. Not high end resorts, just a place to sleep for a night.

For me, the potential most concerning part would be this:

"And while just 3% of participating properties can price outside of the old categories as of now, all Marriott locations will have this possibility in 2023."


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## alexb (Apr 13, 2022)

I booked Gaylord Orlando a couple of months ago 40k points same night is now 77k.


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## Fasttr (Apr 13, 2022)

alexb said:


> I booked Gaylord Orlando a couple of months ago 40k points same night is now 77k.


Yikes.


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