# Advice with recession



## BigTaterBug (May 21, 2014)

I want to rescind a time share with Holiday Inn Club Vacation in Orlando Florida. I've researched how to do this on TUG. This is the letter I have come up with:

May 21, 2014
Attention Customer Service / Quality Assurance,
Re: Rescission of Contract xxxxxxx

To: 
SELLER/DEVELOPER: 
Orange Lake Country Club, INC.
8505 W. IRLO BRONSON MEMORIAL HWY.
KISSIMMEE, FLORIDA 34747
ORLANDO (407) 239-0000

Cc: 

Escrow Agent:
FOLEY AND LANDER
111 North Orange Avenue, Suite 1800
Orlando, Florida 32801

Regarding contract "xxxxxxx" dated x/xx/xxxx for purchase of a timeshare at "Orange Lake Resorts Country Club Villa III, a condominium” week x unit xxxx.   We are exercising our legal right to cancel this contract. We expect a full refund of our deposit of "$x,xxx.xx" Do not make any additional charges to my credit card ("credit card name" ending in xxxx). Please confirm my legal rescission in writing.

Sincerely,

John Husband

Jane Wife

Address:
123 Main St.
Any Town, USA. xxxxx-xxxx


I have read the cancelation policy and it refers to Florida Statutes section 721.08 and that statute refers me to 721.10 which says to mail the letter to the developer or the escrow agent. I thought I would mail one to each of them (certified). Does this seem sufficient. Should I contact a lawyer in Florida?
Thanks!


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## TUGBrian (May 21, 2014)

as long as you are within your recission period, and you are following the directions laid out specifically in your sales contract, you do not need to contact a lawyer to cancel...it is your right to do so.

http://tug2.net/timeshare_advice/cancel_timeshare_purchase.html


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## BigTaterBug (May 21, 2014)

Thanks for the advice. I plan on having the letter notarizing (because we can) and mailing it tomorrow (Wednesday). We made the agreement yesterday (Monday). I have 10 total days from Monday. I really cannot thank TUG enough! In the contract and in the Florida codes (721.08 & 721.10) that are referenced, there are no specifics concerning letter content; only a notification to cancel. Florida does say that a letter must be post marked by the 10th day or telegraphed.All other forms of communication must be received by the seller/developer or escrow agent by midnight of the 10th day.


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## TUGBrian (May 21, 2014)

so glad you found us in time!


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## LannyPC (May 21, 2014)

BigTaterBug said:


> Thanks for the advice. I plan on having the letter notarizing (because we can) and mailing it tomorrow (Wednesday.



Just out of curiosity, why are you planning to notarize it?  That costs money.  Your rescission instructions do not require that you notarize your request.

Also, maybe I missed it in the article that TUG Brian gave about rescinding, but after the rescission letter is received, you will likely get a phone call from a salesperson trying to convince you to reverse your decision to rescind.  The general advice here on TUG is to not take any phone calls from (in this case) Florida as it will probably be the dreaded sales person.  S/He might leave a message in essence saying that you must contact him/her immediately about your rescission request because...  NO!  There is no need for any contact once you have sent your rescission request as per the instructions.

Also, remember that rescission and accompanying refunds take time, sometimes up to 45 days.  So if you don't see a refund or reversal on your credit card, don't panic and start phoning the resort, HIVC, the salesperson, etc. asking about your request.


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## BigTaterBug (May 21, 2014)

You are correct; there is absolutely no instruction in the contract or in the Florida code for notarization. We have free notary service and so I am really only doing it for looks. And, I have no plan to contact them by any other means other then writing; nor will I answer their calls. I am now adopting the run, run away, run far away and really fast strategy. Thank You for the very good advice.


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## theo (May 21, 2014)

*Yessa!*



BigTaterBug said:


> <snip>  I have no plan to contact them by any other means other then writing; nor will I answer their calls. I am now adopting the run, run away, run far away and really fast strategy.



And a *very* good strategy it is...


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## jimandlisa (May 22, 2014)

*Returning the IPad w/ rescission letter??*

Been reading with interest above posts and we are in a similar situation and could use your expertise and advice.  We purchased a Bluegreen TS and immediately the next day realized it was a mistake. Included in the sale was a new IPad with the resorts APP on it. We have not used it. I sent the rescission letter out in the correct time-frame and format(I hope).  My letter stated I would return the IPad once we were sent a postage paid box and address to return it to.  I am worried *NOW* that I should have just sent this with the letter.
Additionally, now that they have gotten the certified letter, what should we expect?  I sure wish we had found your website prior to our insane purchase. 
Thanks~
J & L


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## theo (May 22, 2014)

*My $0.02 worth...*



jimandlisa said:


> We purchased a Bluegreen TS and immediately the next day realized it was a mistake. Included in the sale was a new IPad with the resorts APP on it. We have not used it. I sent the rescission letter out in the correct time-frame and format(I hope).  My letter stated I would return the IPad once we were sent a postage paid box and address to return it to.  I am worried *NOW* that I should have just sent this with the letter.



With all due respect, it may have been a bit unreasonable to expect or request that a postage paid box would be provided to you in which to return the iPad. 
I hope they don't somehow choose to interpret and regard your letter as some sort of "conditional" cancellation, allowing the rescission period to keep on ticking away. That would certainly be a real stretch on their part, but any tactic is conceptually possible with hungry timeshare sales weasels. 

In my opinion, you should *promptly* and carefully package up that iPad and ship it (insured, at your own expense, requesting delivery confirmation) directly to the same address to which you sent your original rescission letter, including a copy of your original rescission letter with the shipment. 

What should you expect next, you have also asked? _*Maybe*_ some phone calls (which you should not take) seeking to salvage the sale, but BlueGreen historically is pretty reasonable about processing rescissions, so you may not even get any such calls. Beyond that, you'll likely hear or receive nothing more --- there is no legal obligation to provide you with any other form of verification or notification beyond the actual processing of your cancellation and the refund of your purchase deposit. You may receive a letter, maybe not. In either case, you'd be well advised to *stay off the phone* on this matter; any and all oral conversation pertaining to your contract or the cancellation thereof is completely meaningless from a legal standpoint and no possible good can arise from any such unnecessary and legally meaningless phone conversation(s).


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## jimandlisa (May 22, 2014)

*Returning the IPad w/ rescission letter??*

Thanks for the advice, I am still within my 9 days here in MI so I will box up the IPad this morning and will send it to FL. My dilemma was that I was given the IPad in MI so I was unsure if they would want it sent back to where we had been given it; but I am safe to assume then as long as they get it back to their main site that I am no longer responsible ??
AND If I don't recognize the number on caller ID I won't be answering the phone! 
Thanks for your $0.02.......it's worth big bucks to us.  This entire site is worth it's weight in gold


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## theo (May 22, 2014)

*9 days?*



jimandlisa said:


> Thanks for the advice, *I am still within my 9 days* here in MI...



I *believe* that the rescission period in Michigan is actually 5 days, so I'm admittedly a bit confused by your reference to "9 days" as highlighted above. 

Generally speaking, the state in which the contract is actually executed is the state whose rescission laws and applicable time period apply and prevail. 
So although BG may well be headquarted in FL, and although FL (with a 10 day rescission period) may be the state to which your contract rescission instructions direct that any cancellation correspondence be sent, the 5 day period for Michigan is likely the applicable time frame which you need to meet.


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## jwrdavis (May 22, 2014)

I just recently went through the same thing last month!  My wife and I bought a timeshare at Williamsburg Plantation for about $20,000 after all the added loan interest.  After we bought it I kept thinking that I didn't get a good deal so I started researching and found TUG online and a few other resources.  I remember reading somewhere that if you think you shouldn't have bought it then you should cancel the contract so I looked around and found the same thing in a much better time slot on eBay for around $300 after closing fees.  The resale market is so much better and its right under your nose.


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## BigTaterBug (May 22, 2014)

*Update and Question*

I sent two letters yesterday (Wednesday - day 3). One to the escrow agent and one to the seller/developer. I sent both letters priority express mail, certified and return receipt. Today (Thursday - day 4) the tracking number numbers for both said they had been delivered and signed for. I decided to do express mail in case of any trouble. That way I would have 5 or so days left to act.

I also found on the cd of legal documents that the TS gave me had another cancelation clause. The cd specified that the cancellation letter should go to the developer/seller. The hard copy did not make that specification. Florida statute says either escrow agent or developer/seller. Of course, I did both.

I do have a question for clarification.
In the article "How do I Cancel my Timeshare Purchase?" it says, 
"note that the "state" law that applies is almost always the state in which the Timeshare was purchased in, not the state you live in."

Above Theo says, 
"Generally speaking, the state in which the contract is actually executed is the state whose rescission laws and applicable time period apply and prevail."

This does not really matter to me as Florida (the location of the time share)gives, and the contract says, 10 days. However, the contract was executed in Tennessee which gives 10 days on sight 15 days if not.  So, in either case, I'm good at 4 days (post marked on the 3rd day). I live in Missouri (5 days - what's up with that?) I was just wondering for any who might read this later. Am I under Florida rules or Tennessee rules?

I will update when I have more information (hopefully refunds) 

I want to thank everyone again at TUG for all the wonderful help!!!

PS > I don't know how to do the blue quote boxes

Extra note concerning Missouri's 5 days to resend: I serve as chairman of a tourism board in MO. I will talk to my state representatives and see want can be done about extending this time.


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## pittle (May 22, 2014)

Many places have the 5 days.  Missouri has a bunch of timeshares in the Branson area and a few in the Lake of the Ozarks - maybe they are like Mexico and want to talk/sell to you on  Monday or Tuesday and then you are out having fun the rest of the week, you do not really read the papers until you get home and then it is too late for you to rescind.  That is kind of sneaky in my opinion, but it sure happens a lot!


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## theo (May 23, 2014)

*No difference....*



BigTaterBug said:


> <snip> I do have a question for clarification.
> 
> In the article "How do I Cancel my Timeshare Purchase?" it says,
> "note that the "state" law that applies is almost always the state in which the Timeshare was purchased in, not the state you live in."
> ...



There is no conflict and no contradiction at all between the two statements from the two different and unrelated sources which you have cited above. 
Both statements say _mostly_ the same thing, in different words. Both are correct as written, although only the second one cited is also _grammatically_ correct . 

The state in which the contract is physically executed is the state whose applicable rescission laws and associated rescission time period apply and prevail. 
The state (or country) of residency of the buyer does not matter at all and it does not much matter where the timeshare property reflected in the contract is located. 
Think of it this way --- a state law has jurisdiction within its' own borders; where a contract is executed establishes that state as the one whose rescission law applies. 

That being said, a multi-state "chain" operation (I'm just offering a hypothetical example, for illustration) could always voluntarily *choose* to adopt within all of their contracts, right across the board, the longest of the rescission periods among all of the states in which they conduct sales. A Florida-headquartered "chain" could, for example, identify a 10 day rescission period into all of its' contracts, regardless of the other states (some with shorter rescission periods) in which they conduct sales. Whether or not any multi-state "chains" actually do this, I am inclined to doubt but cannot say with any certainty; I do not own within any "chains" and I have not seen any "chain" developer-direct sales contracts --- and I most likely never will. Under *no* circumstances, however, could *any* developer ever lawfully attempt to identify a rescission time period which is shorter than the rescission time period provided in the state law of any individual state(s) in which a developer or "chain" conducts sales. 

Btw, A 5 day rescission period is not at all uncommon. Only 3 states in the U.S. have a rescission period of 10 days or longer; Alaska (15), Florida & Tennessee (10). 
In *most* states it's 5-7 days. There are actually four or five other states in which the rescission period available under applicable state law is only *3* days.


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## BigTaterBug (May 23, 2014)

Thanks for the great explanation. I am really glad that both Tennessee and Florida have 10 day rescission periods because I really misunderstood which states rules applied. The hard copy cancelation clause that the TS people gave to me sited Florida statute (721.08) but the clause that I found in the PDF file found on the CD did not site any state statute. it only said to notify the Developer/Seller (and gave the address) in 10 days.
Thank You So Very Much!!!! Is there anything else that I might need to know concerning Tennessee statute other than the 10 rescission period?


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## theo (May 24, 2014)

BigTaterBug said:


> Thanks for the great explanation. I am really glad that both Tennessee and Florida have 10 day rescission periods because I really misunderstood which states rules applied. The hard copy cancelation clause that the TS people gave to me sited Florida statute (721.08) but the clause that I found in the PDF file found on the CD did not site any state statute. it only said to notify the Developer/Seller (and gave the address) in 10 days.
> Thank You So Very Much!!!! Is there anything else that I might need to know concerning Tennessee statute other than the 10 rescission period?



You're very welcome. It's not really necessary for a buyer to know or cite the underlying law by actual statutory reference. All you really need to know or do in the final analysis is to meet the individual state law deadline in sending the (clearly and plainly stated) rescission letter and follow the provided cancellation instructions *precisely*. If the instructions indicate U.S. Mail, use it (do so by certified mail). FedEx, fax, UPS, email, phone calls, smoke signals, carrier pigeon or a personal appearance are not legally adequate alternative choices. Date of mailing postmark (not the date of later receipt) is what matters. Save your certified mail receipt for proof of postmark date.

Also, be sure to send the cancellation to the developer address specified in the cancellation instructions. Only very rarely (i.e., almost never) would this be the same address and / or location as where you enjoyed were subjected to the sales weasel pitch.

Last but not least, do not take any later phone calls from the sales weasels trying to salvage their sale (and their commission). Any such phone contacts are just last-ditch acts of desperation on their part. Any such conversations are unnecessary and annoying distractions --- and completely meaningless from a legal perspective anyhow.  

Congratulations on jumping out of the shark tank in time. 

P.S. I belatedly see that you have asked the developer for "written confirmation" of your rescission. You *might* get a letter, but you should know that the developer is under no legal obligation to provide you with one. Their only legal obligation is to process your timely and properly submitted rescission and fully refund any deposit paid. 
No more, no less.


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## jimandlisa (May 24, 2014)

*Rescission time is crazy confusing*



theo said:


> I *believe* that the rescission period in Michigan is actually 5 days, so I'm admittedly a bit confused by your reference to "9 days" as highlighted above.
> 
> Generally speaking, the state in which the contract is actually executed is the state whose rescission laws and applicable time period apply and prevail.
> So although BG may well be headquartered in FL, and although FL (with a 10 day rescission period) may be the state to which your contract rescission instructions direct that any cancellation correspondence be sent, the 5 day period for Michigan is likely the applicable time frame which you need to meet.


Theo, you are correct~ MI rescission time is only 5 days.  We live in MI and also purchased TS in MI.  But, TS headquarters is based in Florida which as you said is 10 days. Our initial letter was received by them within 5 days; I then sent the IPAD and the rest of the junk that was given to us in the sales pitch; that was received by them within the 10 days but not 5 days. I'm not sure where we stand now. But here is the kicker: One of the first questions I asked the salesperson during the sales presentation was specifically about a "cooling off" period.  He said we had *9 days. In the contract we signed it says in BOLD PRINT "YOU MAY CANCEL THIS CONTRACT WITHOUT ANY PENALTY OR OBLIGATION WITHIN 9 BUSINESS DAYS AFTER THE DATE YOU SIGN THIS CONTRACT,......"*  So where do they come up with the 9 day number or is the day we signed the contract eliminated as one day?:annoyed:

BY LAW, are they obligated to return our money?
Thanks again!
J&L-


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## jimandlisa (May 25, 2014)

*more questions...*



theo said:


> There is no conflict and no contradiction at all between the two statements from the two different and unrelated sources which you have cited above.
> Both statements say _mostly_ the same thing, in different words. Both are correct as written, although only the second one cited is also _grammatically_ correct .
> 
> The state in which the contract is physically executed is the state whose applicable rescission laws and associated rescission time period apply and prevail.
> ...


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## theo (May 25, 2014)

*Simple and straightforward, just too many words used...*



jimandlisa said:


> Theo-
> With this in mind is it possible to decipher the following, this is wording from our paperwork from Bluegreen. It's probably standard but *WHAT *does it mean?  Maybe it could help others as well
> I highlighted the end in blue as that is the my biggest confusion.
> 
> ...




Mumbo jumbo paragraph 1 simply refers to the initial product organizational documents --- probably not much therein of any particular use or interest to you.   

Second paragraph; lots of words to say that *the state of contract execution is what determines the applicable rescission law and time period,* 
unless the developer voluntarily _*chooses*_ to offer a longer (shorter would not be lawful)) time period than applicable state law provides. 
If you sign a contract in Michigan to buy a product in Florida, you are subject to Michigan's (not Florida's) rescission laws, absent a longer period voluntarily provided and identified by the developer. Pretty straightforward.

Regarding what you have highlighted above in blue, it essentially states two things; 1. a buyer cannot lawfully be requested to waive or forfeit the rescission rights which are provided to them under applicable state law. Frankly, no U.S. developer would likely attempt to do this anyhow. Maybe in Mexico, but almost certainly not here in the U.S. --- the paper trail (i.e., easily retrievable documentary evidence of overt violation of the law) if they did this would be a reckless and brazen act of stupidity, one not likely to be attempted by any U.S. developer --- not even Wyndham or Westgate. Their respective company sales weasels might be hungry, lying parasites, but their company attorneys certainly aren't stupid enough to sanction or allow any such obvious violation of law. 2. The developer cannot lawfully do an "end run" around a buyer's applicable rescission period by simply rushing a buyer's signed contract paperwork through for processing and /or deed recording before the applicable rescission period has expired. Quite frankly, this is almost stating the obvious, since the statement would still be undeniably true whether or not overtly expressed in writing.

P.S. I have not researched it recently, but my last recollection is that Michigan rescission period is 5 days. Accordingly, I have no idea where the "9 days" reference cited above may have originated.  As mentioned previously however, a developer can _*choose*_ to  allow a longer (...but never a shorter) rescission time period than that which is provided by the applicable state law.


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## theo (May 25, 2014)

jimandlisa said:


> Theo, you are correct~ MI rescission time is only 5 days.  We live in MI and also purchased TS in MI.  But, TS headquarters is based in Florida which as you said is 10 days. Our initial letter was received by them within 5 days; I then sent the IPAD and the rest of the junk that was given to us in the sales pitch; that was received by them within the 10 days but not 5 days. I'm not sure where we stand now. But here is the kicker: One of the first questions I asked the salesperson during the sales presentation was specifically about a "cooling off" period.  He said we had *9 days. In the contract we signed it says in BOLD PRINT "YOU MAY CANCEL THIS CONTRACT WITHOUT ANY PENALTY OR OBLIGATION WITHIN 9 BUSINESS DAYS AFTER THE DATE YOU SIGN THIS CONTRACT,......"*  So where do they come up with the 9 day number or is the day we signed the contract eliminated as one day?:annoyed:
> 
> BY LAW, are they obligated to return our money?
> Thanks again!
> J&L-



Yes; with a properly and timely submitted rescission, you *must* receive a full refund (although, in a worst case scenario, it could potentially take up to 45 days before you actually receive that refund; it's unlikely to take that long, but still entirely possible). 

If you were provided with an owner package / binder or other materials, those materials should also be returned within the applicable rescission period since, if you fail to return them, you can legitimately be charged for their alleged "value".  Westgate, just to cite a specific example, charges $50 for their "owner package and binder" if not returned. An iPad would obviously have a very easily determined actual retail value. 

The good news in your case is that, at least historically, BlueGreen is generally pretty good about processing timely and properly submitted rescissions. 
You may not even receive the desperate lying sales weasel phone calls that you would *surely* receive from the slimy likes of Westgate, for example.


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## Ikered (May 26, 2014)

I got suckered yesterday into buying into SilverLeaf Resorts. I was sold a condo in Brandson, MO but signed up in Texas. I am about rescind the contract and send everything back. Has anyone dealt with Silverleaf resorts? The return address listed in the contract is in Dallas. Any info would be greatly appreciated! Thanks!


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## BigTaterBug (May 31, 2014)

*Success*

My wife informed me that our down payment has been returned. Thank You all for your help! We receive our refund on day 10 or 11.


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## TUGBrian (May 31, 2014)

fantastic!!!


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## jimandlisa (Jun 23, 2014)

*Time, patience and lesson learned*

First, we would like to thank the TUG website, it's members and moderators (THEO!) If not for you we would have pulled our hair out and perhaps given up on getting our refund.  Sometimes just being able to "talk" and get sensible advice and see that others are going through the same thing helps.  It did take over a month but we were able to get 100% of our money back.  Now on to the more fun part of the website, looking for a vacation place that isn't going to be a sales pitch and a rip-off.
Thanks again TUGS
Jim & Lisa


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## theo (Jun 23, 2014)

*Yessa!*



jimandlisa said:


> First, we would like to thank the TUG website, it's members and moderators (THEO!) If not for you we would have pulled our hair out and perhaps given up on getting our refund.



I am not a moderator (and I don't play one on TV) but thanks for your kind words. It's always gratifying to help someone get successfully through a developer-purchase rescission and get them out of the greedy clutches of lying, hungry and deceitful sales weasels who will say almost anything to "close the deal". 

Not that many years ago, rescission (a.k.a. "cooling off" period) state laws didn't really  even exist at all. Count your blessings that these laws are in place (albeit with varying time periods) in the U.S. today and that you were astute enough to take advantage of the protection they provide --- *before* it was too late. Well done.


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## TimeToRun (Jun 23, 2014)

jimandlisa said:


> First, we would like to thank the TUG website, it's members and moderators (THEO!) If not for you we would have pulled our hair out and perhaps given up on getting our refund.  Sometimes just being able to "talk" and get sensible advice and see that others are going through the same thing helps.  It did take over a month but we were able to get 100% of our money back.  Now on to the more fun part of the website, looking for a vacation place that isn't going to be a sales pitch and a rip-off.
> Thanks again TUGS
> Jim & Lisa


Amen!! We feel the same way! After our house sells we are going to purchase exactly what we want, on terms we can live with. Thank you all!


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## Onehotbike (Jul 12, 2014)

BigTaterBug said:


> I want to rescind a time share with Holiday Inn Club Vacation in Orlando Florida. I've researched how to do this on TUG. This is the letter I have come up with:
> 
> May 21, 2014
> Attention Customer Service / Quality Assurance,
> ...


Thanks I used your format just been suckered this week but TUGS helped and so did your well written letter. Can't what to buy a resale after a little more research


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## brucecz (Jul 12, 2014)

I would suggest that the newer readers read Tug an other websites for at least 1 month to gain knowledge.  Then if there is a resort you are interested first  before buying, rent at that resort.  

One way to learn about resorts is join Tug and get access to Tugs members reviews  in the Tug review section.  Bruce


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## Rheart76 (Mar 8, 2018)

I am just days out of the ression period to cancel am I screwed


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## Passepartout (Mar 8, 2018)

Rheart76 said:


> I am just days out of the ression period to cancel am I screwed


Maybe. It might depend on what system you bought into. Some are more strict than others. And your circumstances might also be an issue. If you truly are a hardship and buying a timeshare would keep your kids out of school, or a recent diagnosis of life-threatening illness, as opposed to simply finding out that you could have bought it for pennies on the dollar. If you just paid too much and you can still afford the purchase, you won't get much sympathy.

Jim

P.S. Our usual advice is to submit a letter of rescission even if it is later than the law requires. It just might work. And if you don't send one, you are surely on the hook.


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