# Owning 500k to 1Mil points at Wyndham



## acesgame (Sep 17, 2007)

Okay, we went to the Wyndham TS spiel for the freebies and asked alot of questions the first girl couldn't answer.  Got a guy who seemed to know alot more.  He answered alot of questions but we weren't ready to jump in then.  We did buy the discovery vacation points because we want to stay in Alexandria VA next year and it would cost us almost that amount of money to stay in a hotel and it locked in all that they were trying to sell us.  I kept asking about resale etc.  I have read a few threads on most people's view of VIP status.  The sales guy showed us the "cheaper" way to get to 500k points VIP gold status.  Apparently, you need at least 300k pt VIP status to convert weeks to points.

Expensive way =  $85k for 500k points direct from them.

cheaper way= $12k for 168k pts every even year plus 216k bonus points (VIP status)+ ~$18k (I don't remember how he got this number) to convert two 2BR red(resale ~cost $4000) weeks to 416k points(these count toward VIP)=$34-35k for VIP gold status. And able to deed all to the lowest MF resorts (smoky mountains is lowest...right now)

works out to be $68-$70/k points.  

Some of the things I just learned from reading here and not from the salesman.
Please correct me if I am wrong because I need to learn.

1)  The points discounts are for less than 60 days reservations, which will probably not get you high or prime weeks in time enough to rent or make reservations to go.

2)  I don't know the right terminology but you get preference to reserve weeks at resorts that are not your home resort in an advanced reservation time period but not the same advance as owners at that resort.  In other words, if you want race week in daytona, you had better own daytona.


Things that I still don't understand:

1)  If it is an associate(?) resort, VIP gold gets you one advanced preference reservation.  I don't know what the non-wyndham resorts are so I don't know if this is worth anything.  

2)  Do you think it is cost effective to buy airline tickets with wyndham points??

3)  Is it worth the lower maintenance fees to be deeded all to the same resort if you can get the advanced booking benefit?  Or would it be better to be deeded in multiple high demand areas for the best booking options?  We seldom travel during peak times but If you have that many points and can't use them all (at least not yet) it is best to reserve high demand weeks to try to rent them, right??

I sure would like to know your strategy if you own that many points to offset the cost of ownership.

TIA,
stacey


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## rifleman69 (Sep 18, 2007)

Sounds like one big ripoff to me.


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## joestein (Sep 18, 2007)

1)  The points discounts are for less than 60 days reservations, which will probably not get you high or prime weeks in time enough to rent or make reservations to go.

Correct, the points discounts are for only 60 days in advance.  In addition, there is a limited amount of guest certificates you are allowed.

2)  I don't know the right terminology but you get preference to reserve weeks at resorts that are not your home resort in an advanced reservation time period but not the same advance as owners at that resort.  In other words, if you want race week in daytona, you had better own daytona.
If you own at a resort, you can reserve up to the points owned at the resort during the Advanced Reservation Period (ARP), which is months 13 -11 out.  VIP has limited ARP reservations at 11 months out.  Everyone can book at 10 months or less out.  I am not sure how hard it might be book a very popular week.

Things that I still don't understand:

1)  If it is an associate(?) resort, VIP gold gets you one advanced preference reservation.  I don't know what the non-wyndham resorts are so I don't know if this is worth anything.  

2)  Do you think it is cost effective to buy airline tickets with wyndham points??
NO!!!!!!
3)  Is it worth the lower maintenance fees to be deeded all to the same resort if you can get the advanced booking benefit?  Or would it be better to be deeded in multiple high demand areas for the best booking options?  We seldom travel during peak times but If you have that many points and can't use them all (at least not yet) it is best to reserve high demand weeks to try to rent them, right??
The maintenace fees aren't necessary lower if at one resort, versus many.  The fees are based upon how many 1000's of points you own at each resort.  There is a Wyndham Fairshare Charge, but that is only per account, regardless of how many resorts you own at.

I sure would like to know your strategy if you own that many points to offset the cost of ownership.

TIA,
stacey[/QUOTE]

How to offset cost of ownership.... ONLY BUY RESALE... VIP benefits are not worth the difference in price.

Good luck

Joe


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## EAM (Sep 18, 2007)

The salesman was describing the PIC Plus (Personal Interval Choice) program to you.

You have to first own one or two three bedroom red weeks at a non-Wyndham resort that trades in RCI Weeks (not in RCI points).   You may purchase these resale.   You then buy some points from Fairfield/Wyndham (I don't know what they currently require as a minimum purchase for this purpose.  It is one amount for the first week and a lower additional amount for the second.  You may only PIC two weeks and you may only PIC a week when you purchase from them, not after you purchase.)  Each 3BR red week is worth 254K points towards VIP;    So you would have over 500K points if you had two weeks in enrolled in PIC.  Two bedroom red weeks are worth only 154K PIC points, and 1 BR red weeks are worth only 105K.  So if you are going to buy a resale week for these purposes, it makes sense to get a 3BR red.  Note that Wyndham can change the rules if it wants to do so.  Just because PIC weeks currently count towards VIP, it does not mean they always will.

I am not sure what the bonus points are, but they may be temporary points that you get for a couple of years or so just for paying the maintenance fees for them.   After that time you have to buy them or you won't get them any more, and if your VIP level depended on them, that would go away too.

The 500K-1M level is called VIP Gold.  VIP Gold members get 35% points discounts at 60 days or less before checkin.  This can be used to get units in the off season or at the less popular resorts, but you would not be able to get prime resorts during prime season, unless there was a cancellation and you were lucky enough to get one, which CAN happen.  Last summer we added an extra day to our stay two days before we were originally scheduled to leave.  However, with Wyndham's new cancellation policy, there is no incentive to cancel within two weeks prior to checkin.  You'd lose all your points whether you cancel or not.

VIP Gold members can also get a one unit size upgrade at 45 days before checkin, if a larger size unit is available.  Again, this works best during the off season at the less popular resorts.

Associate resorts are resorts that are not managed by Wyndham but that have units available within the FSP system, e.g. several WorldMark resorts are available this way.  However, there may not be many units available.  All VIP members (300K and above) may request a week at an associate unit at 13 months or less before checkin.  The rest of the FF owners have to wait until 10 months.  This is called "Advance Reservation Priority at Associate Resorts."   To find out what the Associate Resorts are, go to www.fairfieldresorts.com or www.efairfield.com. Click on the world map that says "Explore Resorts."  Choose "Advanced Resort Search"  Scroll to the bottom and click the check box for "Associate Resorts."  Note that the Outrigger Resorts may not be available unless you own at certain Hawaiian resorts.  Note also that if when you click on the resort name, and the phrase "Very limited # of accomodations"  it means that 10 units or less (per week) are available via FSP points.  

There is also a "Reciprocal Advance Reservation Priority" benefit for VIP Gold Members.  Once a year you could request a reservation at a resort other than your home resort at 11 months before checkin rather than waiting until 10 months.  Chances are that by 11 months the owners at Daytona have already reserved race week.  In fact, chances are that by 11 months the owners at Myrtle Beach have reserved all the summer beach weeks.  However, for slightly less popular places, you may be able to get something very good at 11 months.  Most of the Fairfield units are still available at 10 months, in fact.

Usually you can get a better deal using your points for air travel by renting your points to another owner for more than the maintenance fees and then using the cash to pay for airfare.

If you want race week at Daytona, you should own there.  If you want Myrtle Beach (or other summer beach) weeks, you should own there.    However, beach resorts usually have higher maintenance fees.  Sometimes maintenance fees are lower at resorts that are in active sales, but they go up after the resort is sold out.   So the resort with the lowest current fees may not always stay the lowest.

Instead of reserving a week and renting it out, it is possible to rent out your points to another FSP owner (who may reserve a week and rent it out to someone making a profit).  You can usually get more than you paid in maintenance fees either way.  You should not wait until the last minute to try to rent, though.

If you want to learn more, I suggest you join this forum:

http://www.wyndhamowners.org/Forums.aspx


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## smartin737 (Sep 21, 2007)

Stacey,

I hope you seriously consider--study even--buying resale before buying or transferring + buying from Fairfield.  EBay resale deals close every day with prices averaging about $12 per 1000 points (INCLUDING closing costs).

Here's a link to a discussion earlier this summer about VIP benefits & are they worth paying retail for: http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=52264

I too recommend www.FairfieldOwners.org (aka WyndhamOwners.org).

Good luck!
Steve


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