# Somebody must know something we don't about Orlando...



## frenchieinme (Feb 23, 2007)

Somebody surely must know something about Orlando's future that we don't because there is construction going on everywhere for more timeshares.  I noticed at least 6 resorts with significant construction going on.

I am presently at Westgate Lakes where they were pouring the footings for bldg 100 which I was told was all pre-construction sold with bldgs 90, 80 & 70 in the plans along with a waterpark with Water Mania ties.  It appears they want to keep up with Orange Lake's competition whereas Orange Lake has a new waterpark.

While on the topic of competition, whereas many resorts have been offering the internet, Westgate Lakes has also implemented it with a high speed internet offering in all 2BR units.  :whoopie: 

frenchieinme


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## Mel (Feb 25, 2007)

I don't think this signifies anything new.  Most of Orange Lake's sales over the last 25 years have been preconstruction, as have many other resorts.

They're still building because there is still demand, even if the only true demand is in the niggest seasons.  We always hear that Orlando is overbuilt, but that's not really true.  Orlando has enough demand in the highest seasons to fill just about every timeshare unit, so they continue to build.


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## timeos2 (Feb 25, 2007)

*Thats why Orlando almost can't be overbuilt*



Mel said:


> They're still building because there is still demand, even if the only true demand is in the niggest seasons.  We always hear that Orlando is overbuilt, but that's not really true.  Orlando has enough demand in the highest seasons to fill just about every timeshare unit, so they continue to build.



Very true. And the high demand season in Orlando is more than 30 weeks per year. In most other areas they are lucky to have a 10-15 week high season over the whole year. The majority of time in those more seasonal areas is shoulder at best - usually closer to dog weeks. The worst demand time in Orlando would be at least high shoulder almost anywhere else.  There is no dog time in most of Fl.


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## JLB (Feb 25, 2007)

I just recently said the same thing about Branson, either here or Over There, because the building and investment going on right now is unbelievable.


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## Mel (Feb 26, 2007)

Jim, you're absolutely right.  Branson is similar because it is not as much of a seasonal destination as many areas.  If Orlando or Branson are overbuilt, then Cape Cod and many other seasonal areas are severely overbuilt.  Phase 1 of Orange Lake alone has 840 units.  With a 98% occupancy rate, that would still leave 17 unit empty, and that's just one section of one resort.  Even assuming that one section of OLCC accounts for 10% of the units in Orlando (it doesn't close, because that would require OLCC to account for 25% of all Orlando units), that would mean 8400 units available, and 84 sitting empty with 99% occupancy.  90% occupancy means 840 unused units!  That's plenty of available units, but it doesn't represent oversupply.


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## #1 Vacationer (Feb 28, 2007)

Don't ya think the resorts are getting good tax breaks because they're bringing in the tourists????


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## Carol C (Feb 28, 2007)

It is very lucrative to build in Florida, especially in the Orlando area. The politics of the state is such that developers have the upper hand when it comes to land deals, taxes, zoning and such. To learn something about the Florida land grab phenomenon, read Team Rodent : How Disney Devours the World by Carl Hiaasen.


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## rickandcindy23 (Feb 28, 2007)

Consolidated Resorts has been present in Hawaii and Vegas for many years, now they are building (or refurbishing something older) a new resort called Villas at Regal Palms in Orlando.  They seem to be a little late in jumping in on the Orlando market.


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## villagerep (Mar 28, 2007)

*Consolidated and orlando*



rickandcindy23 said:


> Consolidated Resorts has been present in Hawaii and Vegas for many years, now they are building (or refurbishing something older) a new resort called Villas at Regal Palms in Orlando.  They seem to be a little late in jumping in on the Orlando market.



Actually, consolidated got it just right.  They had the foresight to create vacation ownership that is strictly 3 and 4 bedrooms which are NOT lock-off units. The COO and his team is really thinking out of the box.  The established companies in the area are still building 1 and 2 bedroom units that are becoming more difficult to trade and will bite them in the butt in the near future.  The fact is, since 1999 the trend is, the larger the unit the better the trading power.  If anyone is a member of II or has an II catalog, turn to page 12 (2007-2008) and read the box in the upper left hand corner: "more private sleeping areas generally yield a higher trading power."  This has become more evident since the events of 2001.  According to statistics, families travel in _familial_ groups or " travel packs" which are members of more than one family vacationing together.  Within a few years, 1 and 2's are going to be worthless which the other big players don't want you to know... they just want us to believe that their trading power is going to be just as strong.  As one can see, like on ebay, smaller units are going for the smaller price, and sometimes can't be sold.  

So the question remains:  Is the market saturated in Orlando?  The answer is no, with exceptions.  The convention and vistors bureau projects even more folks coming to orlando this year (see the revised OCCVB projection, 2 March2007).   The increase in exchange requests are up 16+% and believe it or not, ARDA is afraid they won't be able to meet the need for more units in Orlando in the next fifteen years.  The exception is: the unit without value or exchange power, such as a 1 bedroom and in the very near future, a two bedroom.  Can a family of four or five be truly comfortable for a week in a 1 bedroom "A" side unit? It might as well be a hotel.

The *Regal Palms at Highlands Reserve *is investment condos, primarily purchased by British, and the *VILLAS at Regal Palms *is an II five star vacation ownership resort.  Right now, they have 106 new units available for purchase and there is a projected sell out within the year.  If you go to expedia or one of the other travel sites, you will see some pretty bad reviews regarding Regal Palms, but what you are *not* reading about is the VILLAS at Regal Palms which is totally different.  The VILLAS at Regal Palms is maintained by Consolidated contractors, not a fly by night management company.  It's a pretty cool place, so try to exchange into it, if you can.  It's about 5.5 miles from disney, if you know the back way to the mouse house. Consolidated is looking to build more in Orlando... word travels fast...  
How do i know all of this?  Well, I live just 3 minutes away, I've been an industry analyst for the last 6 years, sold for six years prior.

*Owner since 1986(again in '99), all in Central Florida.    *

_*"The reasonable man adapts himself to the world, the unreasonable man tries to adapt the world to himself.  Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man."*_


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## Big Matt (Mar 28, 2007)

How many luxury hotels do you see being built.

Very few.


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## Lisa P (Mar 29, 2007)

I don't know what you consider very few vs. several, Big Matt.  There's already a JW Marriott, a Gaylord Palms (Opryland), a Peabody and a Ritz (I think).  Announcements have been made to build a Four Seasons, a Waldorf Astoria, a high end Hilton and a Wyndham.

Besides the theme parks and Sea World's new water park, there have been newer shopping malls and other recreational outlets.  The convention center has been expanded and the whole region seems to expect more growth in business, convention and international travelers year-round.


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## rickandcindy23 (Mar 29, 2007)

Why would anyone want to stay in a hotel!


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## Jollyhols (Mar 29, 2007)

I was in Orlando week before last and have been watching the construction over the last few years and it saddens me to see such a beautiful state being built up in this way and I wonder what native Floridians think about it.
And where is all the wildlife going to go?


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## spiceycat (Mar 29, 2007)

Jollyhols said:


> And where is all the wildlife going to go?



to disney - they have some areas they can't built on.

plus some of the wildlife seems to like the WDW resorts as much as I do - OKW in particular, as well as VWL - have a bunch of wildlife.

plus disney has this
http://www.nature.org/wherewework/northamerica/states/florida/preserves/art5523.html

 but yea - the wildlife is definitely suffering.


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## AwayWeGo (Mar 29, 2007)

*Not All Of Florida Is Totally Built Up . . . Yet.*




Jollyhols said:


> I was in Orlando week before last and have been watching the construction over the last few years and it saddens me to see such a beautiful state being built up in this way and I wonder what native Floridians think about it.
> And where is all the wildlife going to go?


Drive from Orlando south along U.S Route 27 over to Sebring & then on down past Clewiston to see lots of wide open spaces & several stretches where nothing is visible but orange groves as far as the eye can see on both sides of the road.  

Coming into Florida from the north via I-95, take the AIA exit in the direction away from the beaches & follow that stretch of 2-lane blacktop over to U.S. Route 301.  Then head south on 301 till you get to Ocala -- watch out for strict speed enforcement in places like Starke & Lawtey & Waldo other small burgs along the way.  In between, you'll see plenty of woods & swamp & cow pasture & such.  

Florida is a _b-i-g_ state.  I would never suggest they don't have crowing & congestion in the touristy places, specially in peak-deman seasons.  But I suspect it will be a while yet before they hang out a statewide _No Vacancy_ sign. 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


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## Jollyhols (Mar 29, 2007)

Yes, I have seen a lot of open stretches.  But things that start seemingly small (in comparison to the size of the state I am thinking) can eventually have bigger consequences.  I live in the south of England and the difference in my area since the 60s is enormous and the build up was gradual - a new estate here, a by-pass there and then widening of the by-passes until our roads are congested and developers are trying to build on every bit of green land they can find.  Foxes are deemed a nuisance because they come into the towns since their habitat is shrinking and we are losing a lot of the bird species we used to see often.


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## tfalk (Mar 29, 2007)

We're heading to Orlando in 10 days.  One of the things I noticed the last time
we were there (1999) was that next to every construction site was 1 or 2
fairly large open lots.  It should be interesting to see if I can still make that
same observation in 2 weeks.


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## spiceycat (Mar 29, 2007)

Jollyhols said:


> losing a lot of the bird species we used to see often.




you know on my last visit to Silver Springs (first time in around 12 years) - they not only did not have the birds that I remember. but the fish were hard to find.

they were basically only 3 to 4 different types of fish - 12 years ago I remember several dozen.

so yes the enviroment is definitely in trouble - but not only Florida - did you see that show on PBS last night - they seem to think that the oceans are losing a ton of fish per day mostly to bad management.


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## pwrshift (Mar 29, 2007)

rickandcindy23 said:


> Why would anyone want to stay in a hotel!


 
Well...room service, maid service, turn down service, restaurants, late checkout, early check in, concierge room, downtown location.  Of course, leave the kids at home.  

Brian


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## Big Matt (Mar 30, 2007)

I consider four very few as you mention below.  I wasn't counting the ones that are already in Orlando or in the downtown area.



Lisa P said:


> I don't know what you consider very few vs. several, Big Matt.  There's already a JW Marriott, a Gaylord Palms (Opryland), a Peabody and a Ritz (I think).  Announcements have been made to build a Four Seasons, a Waldorf Astoria, a high end Hilton and a Wyndham.
> 
> Besides the theme parks and Sea World's new water park, there have been newer shopping malls and other recreational outlets.  The convention center has been expanded and the whole region seems to expect more growth in business, convention and international travelers year-round.


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