# First time post



## whelmed (Jul 9, 2015)

Hi All,

Sat through 2 time share presentations in Vegas last week (HGVC and Westgate), and what a different feel between the two.  Buying from the developer just doesn't seem to be a good value to me so I started looking online to do more research.  Not sure if a timeshare is even for us, but the Hilton one seemed like it might be the best thing for us if we were going to go the TS route.  Would love to get some input to see what you all think.

Quick background, I'm shopping for myself, wife and 2 young daughters (3yo and 1yo).  We've lived in many countries (Canada, Europe, and now are on a greencard in the US).  It's highly likely we will stay in the US for the long term, but may do one ex-pat assignment in china in the next 3-5 years.

1) Where do you want your home resort to be?
Nowhere.  This is why I'm not sure if this is for me.  I live in the SFBay and we have been to Austria / Germany (Skiing), Vegas, Spokane, Boston, Toronto, Beijing, Shanghai, LA (Disney) and Chicago in the last 12 months.  Ideally would like Hawaii, a few ski locations, and than the flexibility to trade to places all over the world (is RCI the best for that?)

2) Do you want to visit your home resort at least half the time, or do you want to trade more than half the time?
Less than half the time

3) What are your 5 top trade destinations?
Skiing (So could be Whistler, Tahoe, the Alps, Colorado, or other), Hawaii, Disneyworld (I.e. California, but may consider FL), then the flexibility for random locations anywhere.

4) How many people do you usually travel with?
2 adults, 2 kids.  Want a 1-bedroom

5) Can you travel any time, or are you locked into the school schedule?
For the next few years, any time travel will be perfectly fine.  Willing to be 'that parent' in the future and take kids out of school to travel in non-peak times (well I think I am)

6) Can you make firm plans 12 or more mos. in advance?
No.  At least not right now.  3-6 months out is as good as it gets

7) Can you vacation for a full week at a time?
Yes. Worst case I can join up part way through the week with the wife and kids.

8) What level of accommodations do you prefer on a scale of 1 to 5 stars?
We've stayed at a lot of 2-3 star places, but starting to crave the 4-5 star as I get older.  A 4 star would be more than enough (Hilton/Marriott/etc)


9) How much can you afford to spend upfront, without financing?
Enough, but would rather keep it to the $5-8k amount if possible.


10) How much can you afford to spend every year for a maintenance fee that will come due right after Christmas, and increase each year?
$1500 would be a good number.  Could afford more, but wouldn't want to pay much more as $1500 can get a week most places so wouldn't see the value in something much more expensive.


11) Are you a detail oriented planner?
Yes.


12) Do you understand that once you buy a timeshare, it may be very difficult to sell or give away, and you are responsible for all fees, until you die?
Sadly, yes, but if the ROI is right then I'll be happy to be forced to vacation every year.


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## Ty1on (Jul 9, 2015)

whelmed said:


> Hi All,
> 
> Sat through 2 time share presentations in Vegas last week (HGVC and Westgate), and what a different feel between the two.  Buying from the developer just doesn't seem to be a good value to me so I started looking online to do more research.  Not sure if a timeshare is even for us, but the Hilton one seemed like it might be the best thing for us if we were going to go the TS route.  Would love to get some input to see what you all think.
> 
> ...



Renting would give you the benefits of timeshare type facilities without the long term commitment of owning, and oftentimes cheaper than owning.


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## Passepartout (Jul 9, 2015)

I think the OP should really cool their jets on this- at least for now. Maybe the time will come when some special place/activity comes along that you'd just like to do over and over- maybe an annual ski trip somewhere, maybe a certain Hawaiian Island will whisper 'come here', and make you and/or family feel 'whole.'

But since you have an out-of-country period coming up, and it seems that the world is truly yours to explore, think about simply renting TSs when/where you want to go. The TUG marketplace (red stripe above) is a good place to find these, and often at very attractive rates. Especially considering no buy-in cost.

Good Luck, and Welcome to TUG.

Jim


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## presley (Jul 9, 2015)

Owning may not be for you if you can only plan out 3 - 6 months in advance and you want high demand locations like skiing, Hawaii and Disneyland. 

You may want to check out the points based timeshares that are not as nice as the 4 star you mentioned. I am thinking Worldmark, Wyndham and Shell Vacation club. If you buy resale in those, you can trade within the same system you own in and they have a lot of locations. 

Worldmarks get full well in advance, but the waitlist has worked wonders for me and others since the cancellation policy is so generous. Many owners book up a lot of stuff and then end up cancelling. 

Shell doesn't have a waitlist, but I've had pretty good luck with booking what I want. It comes with an II gold account and it trades well to other timeshares.

I have no idea how Wydham works, but there are plenty people here who do if you are interested after looking at resort locations.


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## uscav8r (Jul 9, 2015)

whelmed said:


> Hi All,
> 
> Sat through 2 time share presentations in Vegas last week (HGVC and Westgate), and what a different feel between the two.  Buying from the developer just doesn't seem to be a good value to me so I started looking online to do more research.  Not sure if a timeshare is even for us, but the Hilton one seemed like it might be the best thing for us if we were going to go the TS route.  Would love to get some input to see what you all think.
> 
> ...





presley said:


> Owning may not be for you if you can only plan out 3 - 6 months in advance and you want high demand locations like skiing, Hawaii and Disneyland.
> 
> You may want to check out the points based timeshares that are not as nice as the 4 star you mentioned. I am thinking Worldmark, Wyndham and Shell Vacation club. If you buy resale in those, you can trade within the same system you own in and they have a lot of locations.
> ...


Of the 5 systems mentioned (Westgate, HGVC, WorldMark, Shell, and Wyndham), I think only WorldMark will be flexible enough for OP to buy/sell/keep. 

For $1500/year, OP could stay 2 Red Season weeks in most resorts in a 2BR (just under 2 weeks in some of the ski resorts). Plus WM hits all of the desired locations for the OP, except for the Alps.

The cost of entry is not as high as HGVC, and resale contracts have kept their value.

The booking flexibility is among the best in the business. Sometimes just learning how to use the system to one's advantage can mask the "can't plan until 3-6 months" issue.

If OP knows he wants ski weeks, WM allows any-day check-in/booking, and any-length bookings (at least 7 days in red season). OP should know a GENERAL timeframe during which he would like to vacation, and of these only WM allows one to book, for example, a 2-week total booking, and then later allow the owner to pare that down to as little as 7 days as the plans solidify.

WM, as far as I know, also is the only system of the 5 that allows owner-to-owner transfers of credits for cash, which greatly reduces any carrying costs/risks IF the OP ever leaves the US for a few years. WM contracts are also very easy to sell since there is no deed prep involved. 

While the suggestion to rent is often a valid one, it is one based on assumptions from other systems that do not benefit from WM's flexibility. Further research on OP's part is certainly needed, but IMHO, he cannot go wrong with WorldMark. All of the other aforementioned systems would carry a higher risk of ownership.


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## uscav8r (Jul 9, 2015)

A 20-25k credit WM account could be had for about $8k with annual MF at or under $1500.

That would get 10-12 days at Steamboat Springs, CO, (ski location) in a 2BR, or 2-2.5 weeks in many other locations.

Can't go when you actually book? Cancel at 30 days (or 10 days for later bookings), get back the points and they might be good for up to another 2 years. Or rent them to another owner and recoup all the MF cost for the year.

The list goes on...


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## lizap (Jul 10, 2015)

How is the resale market ( when buyer decides to sell) for WorldMark compared to HGVC?




uscav8r said:


> Of the 5 systems mentioned (Westgate, HGVC, WorldMark, Shell, and Wyndham), I think only WorldMark will be flexible enough for OP to buy/sell/keep.
> 
> For $1500/year, OP could stay 2 Red Season weeks in most resorts in a 2BR (just under 2 weeks in some of the ski resorts). Plus WM hits all of the desired locations for the OP, except for the Alps.
> 
> ...


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## presley (Jul 10, 2015)

lizap said:


> How is the resale market ( when buyer decides to sell) for WorldMark compared to HGVC?



Worldmark is selling faster than HGVC. There are resale agents who guarantee (they will buy it themselves for the guarantee) it will sell in 60 days.


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## lizap (Jul 10, 2015)

Good information to know..




presley said:


> Worldmark is selling faster than HGVC. There are resale agents who guarantee (they will buy it themselves for the guarantee) it will sell in 60 days.


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## Bill4728 (Jul 10, 2015)

For a lot of people renting from a current owner may be the best way to get your feet wet in Timesharing.  IMHO  the OP may be best served by renting for now.


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## whelmed (Jan 22, 2016)

An aside, wanted to thank everyone for the time they took to write the comments.  I reviewed them and kind of did what was suggested by cooling off for a while.  Still liking the HGVC idea as posted in the other thread but not 100% sold on the idea yet.  Those RCI exchanges are pretty interesting though.


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## Marathoner (Jan 23, 2016)

whelmed said:


> An aside, wanted to thank everyone for the time they took to write the comments.  I reviewed them and kind of did what was suggested by cooling off for a while.  Still liking the HGVC idea as posted in the other thread but not 100% sold on the idea yet.  Those RCI exchanges are pretty interesting though.



By background, I also have a passion for skiing and I used to live in Europe so am familiar with European skiing resorts.  My favorite is Val d'Isere and I am currently planning to go to Chamonix in 2 months if the snow conditions continue to improve in the Alps.

Prime European ski resorts are not really accessible via US timeshare ownership in my view. You can exchange into areas with skiing such as St Johann im Pongau or Bad Gastein but I wouldn't fly all the way there to ski those locations.

On the other hand, timesharing can be very effective for ski vacations in the US.

Here are some of the resorts in the major timeshare systems:

HGVC - Sunrise Lodge in Park City, Valdaro in Breckenridge
Hyatt - Grand Aspen in Aspen, Mountain Lodge in Avon/Vail, Main Street Station in Breckenridge, High Sierra in Lake Tahoe/Incline Village
Worldmark - Cascade Lodge in Whistler, Sundance in Whistler, Worldmark Park City at the Canyons, Worldmark Steamboat Springs, Worldmark Tahoe
Marriott - Summit Watch in Park City, Mountainside in Park City, Mountain Valley in Breckenridge, Evergreen Lodge in Vail, Timber Lodge in Lake Tahoe, Grand Residence in Lake Tahoe
Wyndham - Park City Wyndham, Steamboat Springs Wyndham, Wyndham Beaver Creek

Now just because you own in a timeshare system doesn't mean that you can get the week and resort that you want (unless you buy a fixed week at a specific resort). Also, the maintenance fees at ski resorts can be quite high - often much higher than the $1500/yr that you are looking for. By searching on TUG you can get the pros/cons to owning in the above resorts and timeshare systems because there are trade-offs to each. It can get complex.

Finally, given the answers to that you've provided, I endorse the idea of buying into Worldmark. It has the lowest maintenance fees, the most flexibility, and a low buy-in price.  Also, the chances of securing peak ski weeks (Christmas, New Years, Presidents week, Spring Break) is greater than the other systems.  This will be important to you in a few years when your daughters are older and need to follow their school calendar. The only relative downside to owning WM is that their ski resorts are 3 and 4 stars whereas most of the others that I've listed are 5 stars in terms of quality. But the other resorts tend to be much more expensive and are generally less flexible when you are trying to secure a given ski week.


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## Marathoner (Jan 23, 2016)

Another suggestion that I have is to use TUG Marketplace and Redweek to rent at the ski timeshares that I've listed.  There are some really good deals that can be found by renting ski timeshares from owners rather than through the developer.


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## taterhed (Jan 23, 2016)

I think the key to using WM (or other) timeshares to book into ski resorts is this:

 Plan the vaca, buy the tickets, make a back-up hotel reservation --that can be cancelled--and have your on-going searches, waitlists etc... running.  When you get a solid reservation--cancel the hotel.  You can pick-up amazing trades in the last 70 days.  But, you really need to have a backup in place.  If the WM doesn't work--rent the points.  If no timeshare comes thru....  rent a great last-minute rental from TUG/Redweek etc....

 But, this all takes patience, planning and willingness to be flexible and possibly stay in a hotel if all else fails.  
 Many people are simply not willing to put that much time, effort, money and stress into the mix.

 cheers.


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## Carole550 (Jan 23, 2016)

*Using WM credits*

We had a timeshare in Park City that we used to trade most of the time...Red week in late Feb.-early March.
  Skiing became our passion so 21 years ago we moved to Steamboat Springs.
We sold the property in Park City to a couple that had the same unit the week after our week...no problem because we agreed on a very reasonable price.

Fast forward. We bought 6,000 credits of World Mark on the re-sale.
Using WM credits you can book 13 months in advance and cancel 1 month before 
the week requested. We only had to do that once, but several people coming here 
(Steamboat) lock in their week of skiing. Others come in the summer.
We are now really old.Hubby is still downhill skiing at 81.  I gave up downhill but am still x-country skiing and snow shoeing at 79.

The resale person for WM mentioned by another Tug member sold our credits for us.


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