# Sirius/XM Bankruptcy



## MuranoJo (Feb 10, 2009)

Heard earlier today this may happen.  And just yesterday, we signed up for a 'special' renewal which includes 'free' PC access.  Supposedly, if we waited for our typical renewal date several months down the road, we would have to pay $3-4/mo. for the PC access.   

Not sure what I'd do without XM in my car.   

http://money.cnn.com/2009/02/10/news/companies/sirius.reut/index.htm?postversion=2009021018


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## dioxide45 (Feb 10, 2009)

I think it is unlikely that they would liquidate. A take over by Echostar or another private equity group is more likely.

This is a company that has been hit hard by the fall of the auto industry. No new car sales means very few new subscribers. There was a statistic that something like 80% of their new customers were from new car sales.


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## bogey21 (Feb 10, 2009)

It has been obvious for years that Sirius and XM would go into bankruptcy.  It is also obvious to me that once the creditors and stockholders (I think the stock is selling for pennies per share) are wiped out that the new Sirius will be recapitalized and  will survive.

George


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## MuranoJo (Feb 10, 2009)

George,

I am aware of the business model, but this is the first newsclip I've seen of this degree.  Admittedly, don't have time to follow news/business as I'd like so I'm sure I've missed others.
Glad to hear you think some semblance will survive.


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## AwayWeGo (Feb 10, 2009)

*Another Possible Cause Of Bankruptcy.*




dioxide45 said:


> This is a company that has been hit hard by the fall of the auto industry.


I thought the cause was fallout from signing up Howard Stern.

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


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## dioxide45 (Feb 10, 2009)

AwayWeGo said:


> I thought the cause was fallout from signing up Howard Stern.
> 
> -- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​



I am sure his big contract is a part of it.


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## Steve NH (Feb 11, 2009)

Thanks for the post.

Sirius just sent me a note about a special offer.
3 yr contract - paid up front. Was a huge savings.
No question they are hoping the cash infusion would help.
But not sure I want them gambling with my money.

Thanks again for the heads up


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## JeffW (Feb 11, 2009)

The Howard Stern, Oprah, and other contracts aren't as clearcut.  On the one hand, back then in the competative XM vs Sirius environment, artists were certainly being offered more than they would now with only one parent company in business.

On the other hand, it's debateable whether Howard's contact in itself help or hurt Sirius.  Assuming $100/yr revenue per new subscriber (full price is about $150, but many got discounts at ~$80), then Sirius would need 1M new subscribers, sticking around the full 5 years, to cover Howards $100M/yr x 5yr contract.  Based on his overall FM radio audience across the country, I'm that could be doable.  

And even though XM and Sirius mergered (combined), the programming isn't common.  While a lot of it is, while Sirius customers get Howard as part of the 'standard' programming (always have), XM customers need to pay an additional fee for a 'Best of Sirius' package of channels which include Howard.

Jeff


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## ctreelmom (Feb 11, 2009)

We ended our relationship with satellite radio when they contracted with Howard Stern.  I also wonder how much of an impact digital music has had?  Now that I can plug my iPod right into the dash of my car, I don't feel the need to pay for music--it was an easy thing to cut when we looked at trimming our monthly budget.


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## JeffW (Feb 11, 2009)

I'd have difficulty paying the regular $12.95 monthly price for my XM subscription.  However at the special rate of $77/yr I (and others) have been able to get, it's a no-brainer.  I'm in my car an hour every day, and not being subject to that 3-4 minute commercial block is well worth the price.

Jeff


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## pgnewarkboy (Feb 11, 2009)

I don't know if this is "new" news or not.  There has been bankruptcy talk for some time.  There is another thread in the Lounge where I posted a link to an article as recent as January saying that a bankruptcy was unlikely this year.  Here is the link.

http://www.fool.com/investing/value/2009/01/15/when-will-sirius-xm-file-for-bankruptcy.aspx


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## pgnewarkboy (Feb 11, 2009)

Apparently there is new news on the possible bankruptcy. Here is the link to a NY Times article in todays internet edition.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/11/technology/companies/11radio.html?_r=1


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## MuranoJo (Feb 11, 2009)

I don't listen to Howard.  Amazing they paid that much and he supposedly has that many followers.  Maybe I'm missing something.  Ha ha.


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## RichM (Feb 12, 2009)

Howard is awesome.  His shows on Sirius are great - nothing gets "bleeped" and the freedom of no FCC looming over him has let the show be better than ever.

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## TUGBrian (Feb 12, 2009)

been going downhill since the merger (thanks FCC!)...sadly there are companies that want to take over...but they will surely wait till the bankrupcy and merely pick through whats left, which is just STELLAR news for all stockholders.

I seriously (ha) doubt any interruption in service would exist, but its not likely the rates and plans will remain the same.


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## Icarus (Feb 12, 2009)

Doesn't Howard's show (and some of the others) have ads? So it's not just subscriber revenue paying that huge salary.

I really don't know. We don't get any of that stuff in Hawaii. Once in a while I'm in a rental car on the mainland that has sat radio.

-David


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## SDKath (Feb 12, 2009)

Bummer.  I think my car's navigation system "live traffic" comes through XM.  I just decided to subscribe because it is an awesome feature.  I would be so sad if they did away with it.

I almost subscribed to the 3 year deal with the free streaming audio to my computer (I got the email yesterday too) but funny that in th eback of my mind I thought --- hmmm I wonder if they will still be around in 3 years.  So I didn't click on the link to do it.  Maybe I should be glad?

Katherine


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## Icarus (Feb 12, 2009)

ctreelmom said:


> We ended our relationship with satellite radio when they contracted with Howard Stern.



That's telling 'em Babba Booie 

Switch the station back to the Rush Limburger show.

-David


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## cerralee (Feb 12, 2009)

SDKath said:


> Bummer.  I think my car's navigation system "live traffic" comes through XM.  I just decided to subscribe because it is an awesome feature.  I would be so sad if they did away with it.
> 
> I almost subscribed to the 3 year deal with the free streaming audio to my computer (I got the email yesterday too) but funny that in th eback of my mind I thought --- hmmm I wonder if they will still be around in 3 years.  So I didn't click on the link to do it.  Maybe I should be glad?
> 
> Katherine



With xm I've been able to get the free streaming radio for three or four years, didn't realize it wasn't part of the "deal".  I signed up for five years back when they first upped their prices.  I got it for a birthday present for the hubby.  He doesn't get radio reception during his drive to work through the Poconos.


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## pgnewarkboy (Feb 12, 2009)

I think Sirius XM is great.  The company should be able to survive a Chaper 11 (re-organization) bankruptcy and come out stronger.  Their main issue is the credit crunch that will not allow a re-structuring of their debt.  Chapter 11 would give the Court the authority to hold creditors at bay while re-structuring takes place.  I strongly doubt that the company will be liquidated.  Stern brought many subscribers to Sirius but he was just paid way too much money.


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## JeffW (Feb 12, 2009)

I'm not so much worried about them completely folding, but rather if they'll be able to continue their discounted promotional rates.  As I said in a previous post, I'd have to think twice about paying fullprice rates.  My renewal doesn't come up for about 5 months, unfortunately plenty of time to file for bankruptcy and come up with a new business plan.

On the other hand, with their shakiness, and the general poor econonmy, they might be more than willing to take my money for a half-price renewal, then risk losing me as a customer.

Jeff


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## pgnewarkboy (Feb 12, 2009)

From the Washington Post Article on the Internet edition yesterday:

"Chris Murray, senior counsel for Consumers Union, a public interest group, said that if Sirius goes into bankruptcy, subscribers shouldn't expect to see their service end. Bankruptcy would have more of an impact on debt holders of the company and may even give Sirius more flexibility to work out its debt troubles. "


I think (and hope) he is right.  I have a lifetime subscription on two radios.


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## Ann-Marie (Feb 12, 2009)

I have a new Sirius radio.  I was told by a rep that if I renew with a lifetime renewal by 3/11, I will get the free internet radio.  I was actually wondering if they will be offering an even lower renewal rate to simply keep customers.  So, should I wait or take the gamble and pay up by 3/11 so that I get the free internet radio.


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## JeffW (Feb 12, 2009)

pgnewarkboy said:


> ...I have a lifetime subscription on two radios.



I have a question - doesn't Chap 11 bankruptcy give the company the right to renegotiate any contract?  If so, wouldn't the contract of "lifeterm service" potentially something that could be changed?  

I'm not saying it would be a customer-friendly thing to do, particularly since both Sirius and XM have both been promoted liftetime subscriptions over the last few months.  

Jeff


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## tlwmkw (Feb 12, 2009)

The economy must be hitting these companies hard- this is definitely not an essential expense since you can pick up some sort of radio signal anywhere for free.  I imagine many people are just letting it lapse now as a way of saving money.

Does anyone else listen to regular old FM anymore?  I listen to NPR on my car radio and it's free.  I don't feel any need to pay for radio service.  I suppose I'm old fashioned but I'll just stick to what I know.


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## pgnewarkboy (Feb 12, 2009)

JeffW said:


> I have a question - doesn't Chap 11 bankruptcy give the company the right to renegotiate any contract?  If so, wouldn't the contract of "lifeterm service" potentially something that could be changed?
> 
> I'm not saying it would be a customer-friendly thing to do, particularly since both Sirius and XM have both been promoted liftetime subscriptions over the last few months.
> 
> Jeff




I don't think the contract is a debt.  Bankruptcy (I am not an expert) as far as I understand has to do with debts.  As long as the company exists they should have to honor the subscriptions.


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## UWSurfer (Feb 12, 2009)

tlwmkw said:


> The economy must be hitting these companies hard- this is definitely not an essential expense since you can pick up some sort of radio signal anywhere for free.  I imagine many people are just letting it lapse now as a way of saving money.
> 
> Does anyone else listen to regular old FM anymore?  I listen to NPR on my car radio and it's free.  I don't feel any need to pay for radio service.  I suppose I'm old fashioned but I'll just stick to what I know.



The satellite "radio" co's have been loosing money since day one and was a big arguement by them for their merger which was completed late last year.

Those who operate your local public radio station would hope you'd feel some need to pay for the NPR service you are listening to.  In addition to their operating costs, the station pays NPR for each listener of the station as published by the arbitron rating services.   In otherwords, the station is charged for each listener it has by NPR.   Our local station here pays NPR $1.4 million a year for it's assessment.

fyi...


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## Autoeng (Feb 12, 2009)

pgnewarkboy said:


> I don't think the contract is a debt.  Bankruptcy (I am not an expert) as far as I understand has to do with debts.  As long as the company exists they should have to honor the subscriptions.



Bankruptcy can get you out of a contract. Tom Petty (musician) got out of his bad record contract by filing bk.


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## UWSurfer (Feb 12, 2009)

pgnewarkboy said:


> I don't think the contract is a debt.  Bankruptcy (I am not an expert) as far as I understand has to do with debts.  As long as the company exists they should have to honor the subscriptions.



There is some speculation in the terristrial radio industry that Howard Stern may return to over-the-air radio, possibly ABC radio.   With the bankruptcy it's thought they can't support his huge contract and therefore would either return to a national network or do some sort of hybrid with a national network plus satellite carrage.

He's not be able to sustain the numbers or popularity he had when he was syndicated via CBS.


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## AwayWeGo (Feb 12, 2009)

*He Could Keep It Clean On Regular Radio & Use Satellite Just For The Dirty Words.*




UWSurfer said:


> There is some speculation in the terristrial radio industry that Howard Stern may return to over-the-air radio, possibly ABC radio.   With the bankruptcy it's thought they can't support his huge contract and therefore would either return to a national network or do some sort of hybrid with a national network plus satellite carrage.
> 
> He's not be able to sustain the numbers or popularity he had when he was syndicated via CBS.


The trouble is, if he shifts back to conventional over-air AM & FM radio, he'll have to clean up his act. 

And if he cleans up his act, he'll lose much of his audience of hard-core fans. 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


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## JeffW (Feb 12, 2009)

If Howard's contract with Sirius is cancelled, my opinion is I don't see him going back to FM radio.  Granted he got a nice paycheck when he went to satellite, but if you listened to him before he left, I think he just really hated the censorship he was getting with over the air broadcasting.  Given he's been w/o restrictions for 2+ years now, I don't see him going back to that.  

Unless it was a back-loaded contract, or one that was heavily un-exercised stock options, he already might have made "$200M" of the "$500M" originally talked about (thought it was debateable if that was actual cash, or some effective total compensation).  I'm sure he pulls in some decent money with his On-Demand channel, thought except for perhaps just showijg reruns of old shows, there may not be any new programming for that if his radio show shuts down.

There was talk he might just walk away from his radio show period when it ended a few years ago.  He's been on FM for 10+ (?) years, at least 2 on satellite, plus the tv shows, on demand, and his movie, so I'm sure he's earned (and hopefully saved) a boatload of money.  I don't see him having to work if artistically it isn't up to what he wants.

Jeff


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## Lawlar (Feb 12, 2009)

*IPOD Fan*

Remember when Cramer was recommending the stock of Sirius?  

I'm with those who listen to IPODs.  I was tempted by Sirius until I learned that you can't listen inside a building (like at my gym).

No Shock Jocks for me and NO RUSH!!!!  (both are a sign of the decline of our empire)


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## Lawlar (Feb 12, 2009)

*Ch 11 Can Terminate Any Contract*



JeffW said:


> I have a question - doesn't Chap 11 bankruptcy give the company the right to renegotiate any contract?  If so, wouldn't the contract of "lifeterm service" potentially something that could be changed?
> 
> I'm not saying it would be a customer-friendly thing to do, particularly since both Sirius and XM have both been promoted liftetime subscriptions over the last few months.
> 
> Jeff



Yes, Chapter 11 gives a company the right to cancel any and all contracts (and confirm those they want to keep).  Sirius might keep some contracts to keep customers happy, but if they feel the need to cancel contracts that are unprofitable, they can cancel them.


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## UWSurfer (Feb 12, 2009)

AwayWeGo said:


> The trouble is, if he shifts back to conventional over-air AM & FM radio, he'll have to clean up his act.
> 
> And if he cleans up his act, he'll lose much of his audience of hard-core fans.
> 
> -- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​



NEVER underestimate the power of a star's EGO. 

For him it provides an income opportunity and to be relevant again to a much broader audience.  For radio & advertisers it represents renewed life to a medium which has frankly sagged since Howard left it.

I'm not a fan of his, but his returning to terrestrial radio works on so many levels for that industry.


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## pgnewarkboy (Feb 12, 2009)

Maybe they can terminate contracts with customers.  I don't see what would be gained by doing that.  That would pretty much end their business forever and nobody would want to pick up the pieces.


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## MelBay (Feb 12, 2009)

I love my XM, and listen to it all day in my home office.  I'm thinking when my subscription is due, I'm going to get one of these:

http://shop.npr.org/products/iLuv_iNT170_Internet_Radio-836-0.html

Little $$ for a radio, but it's Wi-Fi & gets internet radio, and there's NO subscription fee!!!

I've been an NPR contributor for years - I listen for hours & hours a day.  Gosh, I sound like a real radio hound, don't I?  Guess I am!


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## Icarus (Feb 12, 2009)

JeffW said:


> I have a question - doesn't Chap 11 bankruptcy give the company the right to renegotiate any contract?  If so, wouldn't the contract of "lifeterm service" potentially something that could be changed?
> 
> I'm not saying it would be a customer-friendly thing to do, particularly since both Sirius and XM have both been promoted liftetime subscriptions over the last few months.
> 
> Jeff



Theoretically they could, but I think the chances of them doing something like that are highly unlikely.

Is lifetime service with Sat radio tied to the unit, or is it your lifetime?

Tivo has lifetime service also, but it's the lifetime of the tivo box, not your lifetime. Realistically, that means 5 - 7 years for most people. They often have promos to transfer your lifetime service to a new box, but there's a nice fee for doing that. It's worth it if you are going to upgrade, but they sill manage to get more revenue, so it's good from both sides of the deal.

-David


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## Steve NH (Feb 12, 2009)

Interesting article

http://siriusbuzz.com/sirius-xm-bankruptcy-may-be-good-for-shareholders.php

hmm at .075 a share. $ 200.00 would buy me 2600 shares.

worse case senerio I lose $ 200.00

but - if they pull it off.... 
gonna sleep on it....


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## Barbeque (Feb 13, 2009)

I like Limbaugh    

Hannity too


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## MuranoJo (Feb 13, 2009)

All I want to know is am I gonna lose my XM?  Sounds like maybe not.  
Am I gonna lose my cheap renewal?  Sounds like that may happen.

At the risk of turning this into a political censored thread, I will not comment about Rush.  :ignore:


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## Lawlar (Feb 13, 2009)

*2 Americas*



Barbeque said:


> I like Limbaugh
> 
> Hannity too



I guess there are still two Americas.  Sad.

Oh well, I can still listen to the Stones on my IPOD.


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## JeffW (Feb 13, 2009)

Icarus said:


> ...Is lifetime service with Sat radio tied to the unit, or is it your lifetime?..-David



I believe it's similiar - lifetime for the unit.  There are some exceptions (if you have a factory radio that is faulty and needs to be replaced, they'll transfer to it for free), and you also might be able to pay a free (maybe $75) for one or two transfers.

Jeff


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## Art4th (Feb 13, 2009)

Like him or not, Howard Stern is the reason that satellite radio has over 20 million subscribers now. He brought Sirius from 600,000 to 10,000,000 subscribers, and the merger wouldn't have happened without his influence. I think he would retire, or move to another medium before ever going back to terrestrial radio. They would love it, but he wouldn't. He's as relevant as he ever was and still a major force in the radio industry.  

I think the company will ultimately survive...buy that stock now!


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## dioxide45 (Feb 13, 2009)

Art4th said:


> I think the company will ultimately survive...buy that stock now!



Sure it may survive, but will it survive with any equity left for the shareholders? If it goes to bankruptcy it may get sold at auction with nothing left after paying debt holders. Buying the stock is a very risky move.


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## Art4th (Feb 13, 2009)

dioxide45 said:


> Sure it may survive, but will it survive with any equity left for the shareholders? If it goes to bankruptcy it may get sold at auction with nothing left after paying debt holders. Buying the stock is a very risky move.



Buying any stock can be a risky move. At $.07 a share, I'll take the risk.


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## Icarus (Feb 13, 2009)

Art4th said:


> Buying any stock can be a risky move. At $.07 a share, I'll take the risk.



Are you saying that because you are going to risk an entire $7 to buy 100 shares, or do you think it's ok to imply that it's a good move to invest more like $10,000 in this stock? That's the problem with what you said here.

The stock is basically worthless for a reason.

-David


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## ace2000 (Feb 13, 2009)

Do your own due diligence, however, I've played with these before and it almost never works out. 

Generally here is what will happen. The company will file bankruptcy and the stock shareholders will get absolutely nothing. And then the company will survive post-bk after restructuring. Or in most cases, they just go under. I think with Sirius, they'll survive post bk. But, just because they survive, that doesn't mean your stock investment will pay off. 

So in this case, I think you're just throwing your money into the abyss.

Instead, put your couple of hundred into paying this year's maintenance fees! You'll feel better about it.

Again, I guess there is a slight chance that it will pay off. I would seriously bet against it! Just look at the amount of debt this company is carrying. The best thing they could do would be to jettison a lot of that.


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## ricoba (Feb 13, 2009)

Lawlar said:


> I guess there are still two Americas.  Sad.



That's an odd comment.   

I certainly don't hope the only America you want is where everyone agrees with you. 

Just to let you know, I very seldom if ever listen to Hannity, Rush or Howard Stern.


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## Art4th (Feb 13, 2009)

OK...I'll admit I know nothing about the stock market and the only stock I own is in my 401K. I prefer to invest in real estate and gamble with poker. But I have real faith in the idea that Sirius/XM will be a very viable company in the future.
     That being said...are you telling me that if I buy 5000 shares for $400 or $500 and the company restructures (Chapter 11), that when they emerge from Chapter 11 my shares will be worthless? Do they then start selling new shares after the reorganization? Any insight would be appreciated.


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## ace2000 (Feb 13, 2009)

Art4th said:


> That being said...are you telling me that if I buy 5000 shares for $400 or $500 and the company restructures (Chapter 11), that when they emerge from Chapter 11 my shares will be worthless?


 
Yes, that is exactly what I'm saying.  Typically there will be an agreement to sell the remaining assets and customer base to another company and the stockholders will get absolutely nothing.


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## Icarus (Feb 13, 2009)

Art4th said:


> That being said...are you telling me that if I buy 5000 shares for $400 or $500 and the company restructures (Chapter 11), that when they emerge from Chapter 11 my shares will be worthless? Do they then start selling new shares after the reorganization? Any insight would be appreciated.



Yeah, like Ace2000 said, that's a very typical bankruptcy scenario.

The shareholders are almost always wiped out because they used to own equity in the company, but there is no equity left, hence the bankruptcy filing.

But the debt holders have a say in the reorganization plan, because they have a claim on the remaining assets of the company. That doesn't mean that the debtors get everything they were owed, but they have to get something in order to agree to the reorganization, and that should be more than what they could get if the company is just liquidated and sold off in pieces or in whole.

So, yeah, even at 7 cents a share, it's a very very risky investment. It's certainly not an investment suitable for an average investor.

-David


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## Steve NH (Feb 13, 2009)

*Chap 11 vs Chap 7*

Chap 11 vs Chap 7
Chap 11 During Chapter 11 bankruptcy, the U.S. Trustee, the bankruptcy arm of the Justice Department, will appoint one or more committees to represent the interests of creditors and stockholders. The committee works with the company to develop a plan of reorganization to get out of debt. The plan must be accepted by the creditors, bondholders, and stockholders, and confirmed by the court. Once the plan is confirmed, a more detailed report must be filed with the SEC on Form 8-K. 

The trustee may ask stockholders to send back the company's stock in exchange for new shares in the reorganized company. These new shares may be fewer in number and worth less. Stockholders will also stop receiving dividends. Under Chapter 11 reorganization, the company will explain investors' rights and what investors can expect to receive, if anything, from the company. 

Ch 7
Chapter 7, the company stops all operations and goes completely out of business. A trustee is "appointed to 'liquidate' (sell) the company's assets and the money is used to pay off the debt, which may include debts to creditors and investors." 

If the company files for Chapter 7, the stock is usually worthless and stockholders lose any money they've invested in the company.


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## Steve NH (Feb 13, 2009)

PS - any who bought last night at 7 cents just had a 30% increase.  hmmm sell now??
those who spend $ 10,000 now have $ 13,000 - sell or hold?


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## ace2000 (Feb 13, 2009)

Steve NH said:


> PS - any who bought last night at 7 cents just had a 30% increase. hmmm sell now??
> those who spend $ 10,000 now have $ 13,000 - sell or hold?


 
This is such a high profile stock you'll see massive speculation and swings all over the place. Good luck if you want to try and trade this one - day by day! It's always easy looking through the rear-view...

This one is heading for bankruptcy in the short term (30-60 days)... 

watch and learn...


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## RichM (Feb 13, 2009)

UWSurfer said:


> There is some speculation in the terristrial radio industry that Howard Stern may return to over-the-air radio, possibly ABC radio.   With the bankruptcy it's thought they can't support his huge contract and therefore would either return to a national network or do some sort of hybrid with a national network plus satellite carrage.
> 
> He's not be able to sustain the numbers or popularity he had when he was syndicated via CBS.




There were reports in newspapers shortly after he started at Sirius that he was planning to return to terrestrial radio.  Howard flatly denied that he would EVER return to FCC-controlled airwaves and, although he confirmed that he'd been approached, he would never consider it.

At this point, he's got enough "F U" money (as he calls it) to just retire.  Why would he ever go back to a medium where the rules change daily and nobody has any official list of what you can or cannot do or say?

Someone's been reading too many radio industry controlled press releases and news reports.....

I can't listen to his show in its entirety every day so I have every show from when he started until today in mp3 format and I listen to them off my mp3 player in my car as I drive to/from work.  I listen to every show from start to finish and, currently, I'm only up to May 2007 so I figure I have 5-7 years of material saved up even if were to go off the air tomorrow.

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## UWSurfer (Feb 13, 2009)

RichM said:


> There were reports in newspapers shortly after he started at Sirius that he was planning to return to terrestrial radio.  Howard flatly denied that he would EVER return to FCC-controlled airwaves and, although he confirmed that he'd been approached, he would never consider it.
> 
> At this point, he's got enough "F U" money (as he calls it) to just retire.  Why would he ever go back to a medium where the rules change daily and nobody has any official list of what you can or cannot do or say?
> 
> ...



I repeat how I opened my first comment...Never underestimate the power of a star's ego!


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## Lawlar (Feb 13, 2009)

*BK Means You Are Toast*



Art4th said:


> OK...I'll admit I know nothing about the stock market and the only stock I own is in my 401K. I prefer to invest in real estate and gamble with poker. But I have real faith in the idea that Sirius/XM will be a very viable company in the future.
> That being said...are you telling me that if I buy 5000 shares for $400 or $500 and the company restructures (Chapter 11), that when they emerge from Chapter 11 my shares will be worthless? Do they then start selling new shares after the reorganization? Any insight would be appreciated.



I've handled many Chapter 11 cases (before I retired) and it has always surprised me how people will invest in a company that is about to file for Chapter 11.  Amazingly, some people even buy the stock after the company files Chapter 11.

Very simple rule: if you own stock in a company that files Chapter 11 the stock is worthless.  The Chapter 11 Plan will provide that creditors will get some portion of their money back (maybe) and the company will issue new stock (given to creditors in exchange for debt or for those who agree to purchase the new stock for cash).  The old stock is no longer valid.

[Maybe I could think of a few exceptions to this - but the above is the most common outcome.]


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## Art4th (Feb 14, 2009)

Lawlar said:


> Very simple rule: if you own stock in a company that files Chapter 11 the stock is worthless.  The Chapter 11 Plan will provide that creditors will get some portion of their money back (maybe) and the company will issue new stock (given to creditors in exchange for debt or for those who agree to purchase the new stock for cash).  The old stock is no longer valid.



So if I think the company will ultimately survive and do well, I should wait until after the Chapter 11 is complete to buy, right?


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## ace2000 (Feb 14, 2009)

Art4th said:


> So if I think the company will ultimately survive and do well, I should wait until after the Chapter 11 is complete to buy, right?


 
You would be wise to wait.  You'll be able to analyze it then.  It'll be a whole different set of circumstances - I'm sure of that.  It looks like they may be absorbed by DISH.


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## RichM (Feb 14, 2009)

UWSurfer said:


> I repeat how I opened my first comment...Never underestimate the power of a star's ego!



LOL.. you obviously know nothing about Howard.  Read up on why he's been in therapy for years...



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## ricoba (Feb 17, 2009)

*Liberty Media Comes to the Rescue*

Looks like Liberty Media has come to the rescue of XM Sirrius staving off bankruptcy for now.


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## TUGBrian (Feb 17, 2009)

stock doubled today too, to 20 cents  lol


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## dioxide45 (Feb 17, 2009)

So now it may be a battle between DirecTV and Echostar for Sirius XM. Like how DirecTV stuck it to Charlie.


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## ace2000 (Feb 18, 2009)

I've been a Sirius subscriber. I enjoy the Blend and some of the talk stuff. The Blend actually plays the 70's music that I used to listen to - other 70's channels have been dissapointing for me. Plus the other decades are mixed in also. Best channel I've ever listened to!  With the added bonus of being able to take my radio during my travels.

Today, I just purchased the Lifetime subscription and they say the Internet Radio will be available with that. 

I sure hope so and I'm hoping this company survives through my lifetime!


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## AwayWeGo (Feb 18, 2009)

*Free Internet Radio -- You Pick The Tunes.*




ace2000 said:


> I just purchased the Lifetime subscription and they say the Internet Radio will be available with that.


Click here for Pandora Dot Com -- free Internet music radio. 

Choose your own preferred musical styles -- Bach to rock. 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


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## ace2000 (Feb 18, 2009)

AwayWeGo said:


> Click here for Pandora Dot Com -- free Internet music radio.
> 
> Choose your own preferred musical styles -- Bach to rock.
> 
> -- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA. ​


 

I second Pandora!  Great music option available online.  

However, doesn't it time out after an hour or so?  Still great though and FREE!


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## Fern Modena (Feb 18, 2009)

How much was the lifetime subscription?  Did you just call them, or did you get an offer when your subscription was about to expire?

Fern



ace2000 said:


> Today, I just purchased the Lifetime subscription and they say the Internet Radio will be available with that.
> 
> I sure hope so and I'm hoping this company survives through my lifetime!


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## ace2000 (Feb 18, 2009)

Fern Modena said:


> How much was the lifetime subscription? Did you just call them, or did you get an offer when your subscription was about to expire?
> 
> Fern


 
The lifetime subscription was around $350 or $375 (I can't remember for sure).  

However, they'll spread it out over 5 months on a $75 payment plan...  so therefore I guess it must have been $375.  The lady said the Lifetime Online option comes with it, but don't quote me on that.  I sure hope it works out, for that's the reason I decided to do it today... to beat the March 11 deadline.

One more item for Sirius Online listeners... there is a Yahoo Widget you can download that doesn't do the time-out.  It is definitely worth downloading it.  If interested, just do a search on Yahoo/Google for Sirius, Yahoo, and Widget.


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## ace2000 (Feb 18, 2009)

Forgot to mention on the Lifetime plan, if your radio dies or you decide to upgrade they said they'll transfer the Lifetime plan for up to three times (for a $75 fee).


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## AwayWeGo (Feb 18, 2009)

*H. D. Radio.*

What's the big advantage (if any) of HD Radio over regular FM radio ? 

And is HD Radio a serious competitor for the likes of Sirius & XM ?

Not seriously thinking (yet) of springing for satellite radio, but I maybe could persuade myself that I really do need HD Radio. 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


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## ace2000 (Feb 18, 2009)

AwayWeGo said:


> What's the big advantage (if any) of HD Radio over regular FM radio ?
> 
> And is HD Radio a serious competitor for the likes of Sirius & XM ?
> 
> ...


 
Alan,

Here's a link to some good clear information about HD radio. It's main selling point is the high CD-like digital quality of the sound. So, if you want a better sound, you would look into HD vs. FM radio.

http://www.hdradio.com/

The main advantages Sirius has over HD are the commercial-free broadcasts (with a few exceptions), plus you have the ability to choose from a huge listing of station choices that you can't get on regular radio.


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## pgnewarkboy (Feb 18, 2009)

Sirius-XM has a wide variety of stations to meet my musical and other tastes.  For music I listen to the Blend, Watercolors(Jazz), Siriusly Sinatra (great classics from Sinatra, Clooney, Mel Torme, Tony Bennett), Spectrum (great rock both old and new), The 70's station, the 50's station, the Springsteen Station, the Bob Dylan show (where he plays music HE likes).  I also enjoy Chris Mad Dog Russo sports station (only on Siruis XM) which has sports talk 24 hours a day.  In addition to call-ins they have interesting and newsworthy guest.  I listen to the Bloomberg station for financial news without the hysterics.   I occasionally listen to "The Doctors" station which discusses health issues and answers questions from callers.  I also listen to the comedy channels - one of which is pretty raunchy.

The variety and quality of programming is huge.  In addition, I get most of the stations on the my internet connected device.  Free music on the internet is great idea  but I don't have the internet in my car or at the gym when I work out.  

I don't much care about the idea of HD radio if I have to listen to commercials.  Commercial free music is great.

I have Lifetime subscriptions for my car radio and my tiny portable radio( where I can also record songs).  I have a dock to hook the portable radio into my home theater and it sounds great.


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## UWSurfer (Feb 18, 2009)

ace2000 said:


> Alan,
> 
> Here's a link to some good clear information about HD radio. It's main selling point is the high CD-like digital quality of the sound. So, if you want a better sound, you would look into HD vs. FM radio.
> 
> ...



The other advantage to HD radio aside from static free reception are there are often secondary channels stations operate in addition to their main channel which are running simultaneously, usually commercial free for free!   Probably a dozen or more stations here in LA have two and a handful more run 3. 

The country station operates a classical channel & a music-of-your-life/great american songbook channel in addition to their country format. 

Pretty cool stuff with more features to come if that business can figure out how to get people interested in buying radios.


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## ace2000 (Feb 18, 2009)

pgnewarkboy said:


> Sirius-XM has a wide variety of stations to meet my musical and other tastes. For music I listen to the Blend, Watercolors(Jazz), Siriusly Sinatra (great classics from Sinatra, Clooney, Mel Torme, Tony Bennett), Spectrum (great rock both old and new), The 70's station, the 50's station, the Springsteen Station, the Bob Dylan show (where he plays music HE likes).


 

Ok, ok, ok ... here is my top 3 Sirius listing 

1: The Blend - THE best channel I've ever listened to and I have it on all day at work!
2: E-Street (Springsteen)
3: Tie: Watercolors(Jazz) & Siriusly Sinatra

We're pretty close!  

Wish they offered another Sinatra style channel, that played more modern style - Buble, Norah Jones, Harry Connick Jr...


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## ace2000 (Feb 18, 2009)

Gotta love this thread!  

If there's anyone curious and don't have Sirius, they offer a free trial of the Online version at:

http://www.sirius.com/

Next, click on 'Media Player' at the top of the screen.  

I think it is good for 3 days only.  But, if you miss something the first round, you can sign up multiple times under different email addresses.


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## Fern Modena (Feb 18, 2009)

Thanks.

Fern



ace2000 said:


> The lifetime subscription was around $350 or $375 (I can't remember for sure).
> 
> However, they'll spread it out over 5 months on a $75 payment plan...  so therefore I guess it must have been $375.  The lady said the Lifetime Online option comes with it, but don't quote me on that.  I sure hope it works out, for that's the reason I decided to do it today... to beat the March 11 deadline.
> 
> One more item for Sirius Online listeners... there is a Yahoo Widget you can download that doesn't do the time-out.  It is definitely worth downloading it.  If interested, just do a search on Yahoo/Google for Sirius, Yahoo, and Widget.


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## jehb2 (Feb 18, 2009)

We had Sirius for 3 years and I loved it.  Then my husband showed me tuner or "internet radio" via my Phone.  It's so awesome.  The music selection is endless and awesome.  And it's FREE!  My IPhone recharges while I listen to my favorite music through my stereo at home.  I can also listen where ever I go.


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