# Buying annual unit, but no points usage till 2021?



## cas42021 (Dec 6, 2018)

I found out after making an offer on an annual 4800pt 1BR Platinum listing, that the selling agent advised there would be no points till 2021. How is that possible? Can you borrow points from 2 years ahead like that? I'm assuming that will hurt the sale price as well..who would want to buy this for x-amount to begin with, and then pay MF, taxes, and club dues for the next 2 years without being able to use any of it!

Anyone ever hear of anything like this before?


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## natarajanv (Dec 6, 2018)

cas42021 said:


> I found out after making an offer on an annual 4800pt 1BR Platinum listing, that the selling agent advised there would be no points till 2021. How is that possible? Can you borrow points from 2 years ahead like that? I'm assuming that will hurt the sale price as well..who would want to buy this for x-amount to begin with, and then pay MF, taxes, and club dues for the next 2 years without being able to use any of it!
> 
> Anyone ever hear of anything like this before?


Yes, it is possible if the seller had made RCI reservation using borrowed points. You can use 2 future years worth of points for RCI reservations.

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## Panina (Dec 6, 2018)

cas42021 said:


> I found out after making an offer on an annual 4800pt 1BR Platinum listing, that the selling agent advised there would be no points till 2021. How is that possible? Can you borrow points from 2 years ahead like that? I'm assuming that will hurt the sale price as well..who would want to buy this for x-amount to begin with, and then pay MF, taxes, and club dues for the next 2 years without being able to use any of it!
> 
> Anyone ever hear of anything like this before?


This could also happen with an affiliate hgvc where they deposited the weeks in II for exchange which you can do 2 years prior.   Now if it was for a one bedroom, week 7 or 8 at Eagles Nest Marco Island, for the right price it might be worth the wait and additional fees but for most 4800 points weeks not worth it.

Where and what week was it for?


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## natarajanv (Dec 6, 2018)

cas42021 said:


> I found out after making an offer on an annual 4800pt 1BR Platinum listing, that the selling agent advised there would be no points till 2021. How is that possible? Can you borrow points from 2 years ahead like that? I'm assuming that will hurt the sale price as well..who would want to buy this for x-amount to begin with, and then pay MF, taxes, and club dues for the next 2 years without being able to use any of it!
> 
> Anyone ever hear of anything like this before?


In a situation like this usually  seller will reimburse approximate future MF at closing. But you will have to pay club dues though unless you are already a member. One plus on this transaction is, if it is a highly desisrable property Hilton will likely not ROFR.

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## cas42021 (Dec 6, 2018)

Panina said:


> This could also happen with an affiliate hgvc where they deposited the weeks in II for exchange which you can do 2 years prior.   Now if it was for a one bedroom, week 7 or 8 at Eagles Nest Marco Island, for the right price it might be worth the wait and additional fees but for most 4800 points weeks not worth it.
> 
> Where and what week was it for?



Ocean 22 Float Week


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## Talent312 (Dec 6, 2018)

The seller used every point available thru borrowing + RCI booking.
Either the seller cancels them (losing his booking fees) or you walk
... _unless you're getting a serious discount for losing 2 years of use.

._


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## Panina (Dec 6, 2018)

cas42021 said:


> Ocean 22 Float Week


Unless it is a fixed week like July 4 that you will use most years, I would suggest to move on.  It’s not oceanfront and view could be none on low floor.  4800 points can be found elsewhere for a good price without these issues.


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## jehb2 (Dec 6, 2018)

[deleted by me]. I see, it’s biannual not annual.


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## Tamaradarann (Dec 6, 2018)

Talent312 said:


> The seller used every point available thru borrowing + RCI booking.
> Either the seller cancels them (losing his booking fees) or you walk
> ... _unless you're getting a serious discount for losing 2 years of use.
> 
> ._


I agree, you need to look at the comparable prices for this resort and size accommodation, and then subtract 2 years worth of maintenance fees and see if your offer is still beneficial to you.  If not, walk if it still looks attractive to you stay with it unless you desperately need those points for booking vacations for the next 2 years.


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## cas42021 (Dec 8, 2018)

Heres an update:

The seller decided to cancel their reservation, so now the full 4800pts are available for 2019 usage. They also accepted my offer, which was $1000 less than they were asking. They offered to sell m another 4800pts which they can rescue from 2018 if I want, for an additional $1000. If not, I believe they will keep them, or convert to HHonors points.


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## Talent312 (Dec 8, 2018)

cas42021 said:


> Heres an update:
> 
> The seller decided to cancel their reservation, so now the full 4800 pts are available for 2019 usage... They offered to sell me another 4800 pts which they can rescue from 2018 if I want, for an additional $1000.



So, what happened w-2020's points. You said there were no points until 2021.
I'd say the 4800 rescued points would be worth $1000, if you can use 'em.


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## GT75 (Dec 8, 2018)

Talent312 said:


> 4800 rescued points would be worth $1000



I wouldn't pay that much for them (at ~$0.2/point) unless I really needed the points.    The 2018 MFs were around $750 for Ocean 22 1 Bd.


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## dayooper (Dec 8, 2018)

GT75 said:


> I wouldn't pay that much for them (at ~$0.2/point) unless I really needed the points.    The 2018 MFs were around $750 for Ocean 22 1 Bd.



Are those MF’s o;the lower side due to a subsidy? Those aren’t LV Boulevard low, but $750 isn’t bad.


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## GT75 (Dec 8, 2018)

dayooper said:


> Are those MF’s o;the lower side due to a subsidy?



I don't think so.    I agree, Ocean 22 MFs aren’t too bad.    The 6200 1 Bd OF unit would be better.

That is obviously the purpose of the MF/points spreadsheet.    Sometimes, we don't realize those hidden gems.


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## cas42021 (Dec 8, 2018)

Talent312 said:


> So, what happened w-2020's points. You said there were no points until 2021.
> I'd say the 4800 rescued points would be worth $1000, if you can use 'em.


They were going to borrow 2019 and 2020 for a big trip next year. I guess they changed their mind and cancelled to save the sale.


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## pedro47 (Dec 9, 2018)

deleted


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## Tamaradarann (Dec 9, 2018)

cas42021 said:


> They were going to borrow 2019 and 2020 for a big trip next year. I guess they changed their mind and cancelled to save the sale.



So if they can't the trip to give you the 4800 2019 points that was great.  However, what about the 4800 2020 points since you said that you wouldn't have points usage until 2021?


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## Talent312 (Dec 9, 2018)

Tamaradarann said:


> So if they can't the trip to give you the 4800 2019 points that was great.  However, what about the 4800 2020 points since you said that you wouldn't have points usage until 2021?



It sounds like the OP got both 2019 + 2020 points back.
If true, decent move by the seller to let the buyer use what he bought. 

.


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## cas42021 (Dec 9, 2018)

Talent312 said:


> It sounds like the OP got both 2019 + 2020 points back.
> If true, decent move by the seller to let the buyer use what he bought.
> 
> .


That is correct. The seller decided against borrowing 2019 & 2020 points for a trip in 2019 as I believe their selling agent encouraged them to do so. I think they realized it would be a tough sale with those stipulations and just decided to scrap the last trip they were hoping to go on, since they already had an offer in and didnt want to lose it.


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## cas42021 (Dec 9, 2018)

GT75 said:


> I don't think so.    I agree, Ocean 22 MFs aren’t too bad.    The 6200 1 Bd OF unit would be better.
> 
> That is obviously the purpose of the MF/points spreadsheet.    Sometimes, we don't realize those hidden gems.


That spreadsheet is what helped me realize an Ocean 22 1BR was something to shoot for if I couldn't find a Vegas property. MF's are about $130 less per year than Elara, which is where I was previously looking.

The 6200 1BR would be ideal, but would cost me 3-4 times the amount up front to buy than the 4800 1BR. Now I just hope it passes ROFR. Last property I tried to buy didnt and bummed me out. This is round 2 for me trying to get into the system.


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## Hsahota1 (Dec 9, 2018)

cas42021 said:


> That spreadsheet is what helped me realize an Ocean 22 1BR was something to shoot for if I couldn't find a Vegas property. MF's are about $130 less per year than Elara, which is where I was previously looking.
> 
> The 6200 1BR would be ideal, but would cost me 3-4 times the amount up front to buy than the 4800 1BR. Now I just hope it passes ROFR. Last property I tried to buy didnt and bummed me out. This is round 2 for me trying to get into the system.



Be patient, I didn't get lucky till my third try. Initial offer was on a 4800 pt but ended up buying a 7000 pt


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## Tamaradarann (Dec 10, 2018)

cas42021 said:


> That spreadsheet is what helped me realize an Ocean 22 1BR was something to shoot for if I couldn't find a Vegas property. MF's are about $130 less per year than Elara, which is where I was previously looking.
> 
> The 6200 1BR would be ideal, but would cost me 3-4 times the amount up front to buy than the 4800 1BR. Now I just hope it passes ROFR. Last property I tried to buy didnt and bummed me out. This is round 2 for me trying to get into the system.



I don't know who the selling agent is but he/she should be able to guide you and the seller on what price should pass ROFR this time of the year from past experience.  While it sounds like a good deal for you, the seller seems very motivated so they may have priced it to sell and HGVC will buy it.


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## escanoe (Dec 10, 2018)

GT75 said:


> I don't think so.    I agree, Ocean 22 MFs aren’t too bad.    The 6200 1 Bd OF unit would be better.



If you are buying HGVC Myrtle Beach mostly for points, Anderson Ocean Club 6200 1 BR is even better, and likely to go for less than the newer Ocean 22. I am in the process of buying an EOY contract for that. I should learn by 1/10 is my eBay purchase from Legacy clears ROFR.


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## cas42021 (Dec 10, 2018)

escanoe said:


> If you are buying HGVC Myrtle Beach mostly for points, Anderson Ocean Club 6200 1 BR is even better, and likely to go for less than the newer Ocean 22. I am in the process of buying an EOY contract for that. I should learn by 1/10 is my eBay purchase from Legacy clears ROFR.


I couldn't find an Anderson Ocean Club 1BR for anywhere close to what I am getting the Ocean 22 for. Maybe it's just a timing issue? The one 6200pt Anderson I found was 3-4 times the price I am paying.


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## escanoe (Dec 10, 2018)

cas42021 said:


> The one 6200pt Anderson I found was 3-4 times the price I am paying.



The one I “won” on eBay recently started off overpriced for a regular contract while only being EOY. It was initially listed on eBay in a fashion where you could make offers. I think I offered $1,400 to have some negotiation room, and my offer was outright rejected. After that auction ended with no sale, they relisted it as an eBay auction with a low starting price. I “won” that auction for $809. We’ll see what happens with ROFR. Between it being EOY, us being at the end of the year, the fees and maintenance fees built into the sales contract, it might make it through. Fingers crossed.

I agree Myrtle Beach is an oven overlooked value. Some MFs/points are comparable to Vegas. It is easily driveable in a day from me. I is a great place for me to potentially have for both vacation and points.


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## Panina (Dec 10, 2018)

cas42021 said:


> I couldn't find an Anderson Ocean Club 1BR for anywhere close to what I am getting the Ocean 22 for. Maybe it's just a timing issue? The one 6200pt Anderson I found was 3-4 times the price I am paying.





escanoe said:


> The one I “won” on eBay recently started off overpriced for a regular contract while only being EOY. It was initially listed on eBay in a fashion where you could make offers. I think I offered $1,400 to have some negotiation room, and my offer was outright rejected. After that auction ended with no sale, they relisted it as an eBay auction with a low starting price. I “won” that auction for $809. We’ll see what happens with ROFR. Between it being EOY, us being at the end of the year, the fees and maintenance fees built into the sales contract, it might make it through. Fingers crossed.
> 
> I agree Myrtle Beach is an oven overlooked value. Some MFs/points are comparable to Vegas. It is easily driveable in a day from me. I is a great place for me to potentially have for both vacation and points.



With patience good deals come up with Anderson.  I got a event July 4th week for 8400 points thru an eBay auction.  Much more then your paid but overall a great value and the mfs is very good for the points I have.


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## natarajanv (Dec 11, 2018)

cas42021 said:


> Heres an update:
> 
> The seller decided to cancel their reservation, so now the full 4800pts are available for 2019 usage. They also accepted my offer, which was $1000 less than they were asking. They offered to sell m another 4800pts which they can rescue from 2018 if I want, for an additional $1000. If not, I believe they will keep them, or convert to HHonors points.


Looks like the seller made it attractive for Hilton to buy it back.

What is your offer? What is the total cost to buy listed in the contract? Those are the factors Hilton uses to make it's Rofr decision.

You might get lucky and pass as it is the end of the year when there is less Rofr activity.

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## cas42021 (Dec 11, 2018)

natarajanv said:


> Looks like the seller made it attractive for Hilton to buy it back.
> 
> What is your offer? What is the total cost to buy listed in the contract? Those are the factors Hilton uses to make it's Rofr decision.
> 
> ...


Purchase price: $2000
Resort transfer fee: $399
MF first year due 2019: $708.75
Taxes first year due 2019: $43.49
Estoppels/waiver: $62
HGVC Activation Fee: $599
Club Dues: $176
Closing Cost: $630

So looks like in total with 2019 fees/dues paid it will run me $4,618.24

What, if any from above, will be presented to Hilton for ROFR? Is it only the $2000 purchase price?


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## Talent312 (Dec 11, 2018)

cas42021 said:


> What, if any from above, will be presented to Hilton for ROFR? Is it only the $2000 purchase price?



They get a copy of the contract, so they'll see the various add-ons.
But they discount their own fees+dues, leaving price+closing costs.
.


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## natarajanv (Dec 11, 2018)

cas42021 said:


> Purchase price: $2000
> Resort transfer fee: $399
> MF first year due 2019: $708.75
> Taxes first year due 2019: $43.49
> ...



So technically it will cost HILTON $2630.00 to buy it back. Please keep us posted on the Status.


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## cas42021 (Dec 11, 2018)

natarajanv said:


> So technically it will cost HILTON $2630.00 to buy it back. Please keep us posted on the Status.


Will do


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## Panina (Dec 11, 2018)

cas42021 said:


> Purchase price: $2000
> Resort transfer fee: $399
> MF first year due 2019: $708.75
> Taxes first year due 2019: $43.49
> ...


This can go either way. If it was Anderson I would bet they wouldn’t exercise rofr.  Being it’s Ocean 22 and platinum that might exercise rofr. Let us know as soon as you know.


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## cas42021 (Dec 11, 2018)

I certainly will. Out of curiosity, is this Hilton who will be given ROFR or is it the developer/affiliate? If its Hilton, do they have separate budget for each property, or just a budget as a whole for all properties?

Might be a question no one can really answer but was curious if there is any insight to this.


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## Tamaradarann (Dec 12, 2018)

cas42021 said:


> I certainly will. Out of curiosity, is this Hilton who will be given ROFR or is it the developer/affiliate? If its Hilton, do they have separate budget for each property, or just a budget as a whole for all properties?
> 
> Might be a question no one can really answer but was curious if there is any insight to this.



I don't know for sure if there are individual budgets, however, since I believe the variables that they consider include price, points, maintenance, and the demand for inventory at a location for the HGVC resales force I don't know how it could be individual budgets


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## cas42021 (Dec 21, 2018)

Unfortunately the developer (Not Hilton) has exercised their ROFR on my deal and I will not be getting it. Just received word today.


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## Panina (Dec 21, 2018)

cas42021 said:


> Unfortunately the developer (Not Hilton) has exercised their ROFR on my deal and I will not be getting it. Just received word today.



So sorry but don’t give up.

That is interesting, didn’t know that could happen with Ocean 22.  If what you were told is true, the developer will probably take most that are priced low as they probably make a nice percentage when Hilton sells it again.

You might consider Anderson as it seems they are not exercising much lately or an affiliate with no rofr.


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## natarajanv (Dec 21, 2018)

Sorry to hear that. But since the seller gave back the 2019 and 2020 points, it made it too attractive for Hilton to let go.


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## natarajanv (Dec 21, 2018)

Also, I heard that Hilton is still actively selling ocean 22. Try Anderson. That would have passed for the same deal.


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## cas42021 (Dec 21, 2018)

natarajanv said:


> Sorry to hear that. But since the seller gave back the 2019 and 2020 points, it made it too attractive for Hilton to let go.


Im not sure if the points would matter as Hilton did not get ROFR, the original developer did - King Cunningham. Since they are the affiliate/owner, do they resell these or does Hilton?


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## Panina (Dec 21, 2018)

cas42021 said:


> Im not sure if the points would matter as Hilton did not get ROFR, the original developer did - King Cunningham. Since they are the affiliate/owner, do they resell these or does Hilton?


It would make a difference if they had to wait until 2021 to offer it to Hilton they might not have taken it.  They get it immediately to offer Hilton. Still want someone else to verify developer is exercising rofr because this was the first time I heard of this for Ocean 22.


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## natarajanv (Dec 21, 2018)

Panina said:


> It would make a difference if they had to wait until 2021 to offer it to Hilton they might not have taken it.  They get it immediately to offer Hilton. Still want someone else to verify developer is exercising rofr because this was the first time I heard of this for Ocean 22.


We also did not hear anyone buying this low passing ROFR though.

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## natarajanv (Dec 21, 2018)

cas42021 said:


> Im not sure if the points would matter as Hilton did not get ROFR, the original developer did - King Cunningham. Since they are the affiliate/owner, do they resell these or does Hilton?


King Cunningham is the law firm which process ROFR.  Google them. South Carolina is a lawyer state for Rofr process, so the process goes to them instead of Orlando according to my broker.

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## cas42021 (Dec 22, 2018)

natarajanv said:


> King Cunningham is the law firm which process ROFR.  Google them. South Carolina is a lawyer state for Rofr process, so the process goes to them instead of Orlando according to my broker.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk


They are the developer's law firm. According to my broker this was exercised by the developer and not Hilton.

Sounds like I should have not made a big deal about the 2019 & 2020 points. Might have even got it cheaper and pass ROFR.


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## cas42021 (Feb 7, 2019)

I'm resurrecting this post because although I passed on the deal from this initial post, I have a similar scenario on a new deal.

I made an offer on another Annual Platinum 1BR for the asking price and seller accepted. Both the listing and the contract I signed showed the full 4800 points available for first usage in 2019. A couple days after I sent the signed contract, my broker notified me the seller does not have point usage till 2020, and asked if I want to proceed.

My question here, is if I proceed, and Hilton waives, am I still able to borrow some of the available 2020 points for a trip this year in 2019? Or will I need to wait till next year to use my new interval?


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## Talent312 (Feb 7, 2019)

As long as HGVC activates your account in time to book a place.
There should be time, even if doesn't happen until April or May.
Borrowing is automatic... the system draws the points you need.
.


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## hurnik (Feb 7, 2019)

cas42021 said:


> I'm resurrecting this post because although I passed on the deal from this initial post, I have a similar scenario on a new deal.
> 
> I made an offer on another Annual Platinum 1BR for the asking price and seller accepted. Both the listing and the contract I signed showed the full 4800 points available for first usage in 2019. A couple days after I sent the signed contract, my broker notified me the seller does not have point usage till 2020, and asked if I want to proceed.
> 
> My question here, is if I proceed, and Hilton waives, am I still able to borrow some of the available 2020 points for a trip this year in 2019? Or will I need to wait till next year to use my new interval?



I'll have to look at my Flamingo paperwork, but if it shows points for 2020, then yes, you could borrow for 2019.
Although I'd be re-negotiating since you were originally told 4800 points for 2019 (unless you reimbursed the seller for the MF and they will refund/credit that amount to you now).  Otherwise, IMO, it kinda makes you get less for the same amount of money.  Just my opinion of course.


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## cas42021 (Feb 7, 2019)

hurnik said:


> I'll have to look at my Flamingo paperwork, but if it shows points for 2020, then yes, you could borrow for 2019.
> Although I'd be re-negotiating since you were originally told 4800 points for 2019 (unless you reimbursed the seller for the MF and they will refund/credit that amount to you now).  Otherwise, IMO, it kinda makes you get less for the same amount of money.  Just my opinion of course.



Thanks. I agree, it's not ideal. I have not paid MF's, the seller has for 2019, and I confirmed they obviously are not looking to be reimbursed. The only reason I am considering it, is because its priced right based off this issue..and I'm hoping Hilton will be less likely to exercise ROFR as a result of this. Might be a way to get the killer deal I had been waiting for..still not sure what I'm going to do though.


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## hurnik (Feb 7, 2019)

cas42021 said:


> Thanks. I agree, it's not ideal. I have not paid MF's, the seller has for 2019, and I confirmed they obviously are not looking to be reimbursed. The only reason I am considering it, is because its priced right based off this issue..and I'm hoping Hilton will be less likely to exercise ROFR as a result of this. Might be a way to get the killer deal I had been waiting for..still not sure what I'm going to do though.



I was in something similar with my Flamingo purchase.  I didn't have to reimburse for MF, but I didn't have usage for the entire next year (unless I borrowed), but they had priced the unit accordingly (heavily discounted), so it was OK for in my mind.


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