# NYTimes: Hotel in Manhattan Ordered to Halt Sale of Time Shares After Buyers Complain



## abbekit (Jul 26, 2014)

http://nyti.ms/1nEaEZK

The state attorney general obtained a court order in response to complaints from buyers who say they were misled by the hotel, the Manhattan Club.


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## Luvtoride (Jul 27, 2014)

*Manhattan Club*

Very Interesting, but probably long overdue.  We went on a presentation there  many years ago and were skeptical.  We bought a mini- trial package which gave us access to 7 nights at about $200/ night.  We live in NJ and work in NYC, so we were able to make plans to stay there almost anytime.  We had trouble using up the 7 nights (we only ever used one night at a time) due to availability issues even back then.  I'm sure its just gotten worse since then.  It is a good location and the owners club house was a nice benefit, but for out of towners hoping to score a few days in NYC I'm sure it must be frustrating to reserve there.


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## vacationhopeful (Jul 27, 2014)

Interesting as I just got called 3 days ago by them to come in for a discounted stay to hear their TS pitch. Went several years ago to their pitch while I was staying there on an RCI Exchange.

Added: Told the gal on the phone ... not interested. Way too busy with stuff I want and HAVE to do. Plus, the summer is MY slam/busy work time.


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## Luvtoride (Jul 27, 2014)

Linda, you better reconfirm your reservation.  Enjoy your time in NYC if its still on.
Brian


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## Conan (Jul 27, 2014)

I'm puzzled.  Whatever it says in the offering statement, if I own say apartment 1201 in week 15, or if 52 people own 52 floating weeks in apartment 1201, how can management put apartment 1201 out for rent? (Not to mention who gets that rental income.)

In a location like Myrtle Beach or Cape Cod, those 52 people would be competing to reserve one of the dozen or so good weeks in the year. But Manhattan is a 52-week destination, so that can't be the problem.


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## johnrsrq (Jul 27, 2014)

abbekit said:


> http://nyti.ms/1nEaEZK
> 
> The state attorney general obtained a court order in response to complaints from buyers who say they were misled by the hotel, the Manhattan Club.



I like the place on Miami Beach.


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## vacationhopeful (Jul 27, 2014)

Conan said:


> I'm puzzled.  ... so that can't be the problem.



It is the problem. Weeks are booked per calendar year with KNOWN high demand times (like NYE and Thanksgiving weekend). The "owner" has "unsold inventory WHICH of course he can books (and rent). And with $1600+ weekly MFs, the "owner" has the right to rent intervals out who are NOT paying MFs and deduct the "costs" to do so. And then the is the complex multiple "plans" sold - some must book a 3 nights once and 4 nights - with or without weekends. Some are midweek stays. That creates "unbookable" single nights - which can be rented out. Plus, those "unbookable" NY type of days -- most of January (those arctic winds blowing thru the canyons of skyscrapers) or August (the sunbaked streets) heat. Well, maybe they were empty or not ... but the later in the year it gets .. then the answer to owners is: should have called earlier, there was open time earlier in the year. Now there is NOTHING open to book or only single nights .. but not the nights YOU want.

Wall Street has very creative accountants - who do you think is performing the audits?


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## TUGBrian (Jul 30, 2014)

another article, might contain a few more tidbits of info

http://www.crainsnewyork.com/articl...-midtown-time-share-ordered-to-suspend-sales#


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## WBP (Aug 3, 2014)

This is interesting:

http://www.ag.ny.gov/press-release/...-barring-sales-manhattan-club-timeshare-hotel

I can't begin to imagine what the New York State Timeshare Purchaser Disclosure documents will look like once the New York State Attorney General's Office is finished having the Manhattan Club for dinner.


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## dansimms (Aug 3, 2014)

*Glad to see them shut down*

Glad they were shut down.  Treated the sales reps like garbage.


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## arlock (Aug 4, 2014)

Has Anyone else sat down and did the math?  14000 owners, assuming they all book, and are split evenly between all 52 weeks, that's 269 suites being used each week.  There are 286 total suites at the resort.  I realize they have some who are every other year, but still there wouldn't be that many unfilled, I think.

I know there are mixed opinions on this topic, but this is one of the arguments in favor of fixed weeks usage.


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## vacationhopeful (Aug 4, 2014)

I did the math about 5 minutes after those numbers were posted. But these complaints have been aired for YEARS! Too many types of ownerships; too many options in booking; vast numbers of units DUMPED into multiple exchange venues. 

Smoke and mirrors on the unit availability and head count of owners. The $1000+ transfer fee --- sky rocketing MFs --- sure, owners WALK but I bet few are foreclosed on ... (that would mean the HOA would have to pay legal fees, have an auction, make it public (hurt new sales) ... just is all part of the smoke & mirrors accounting process. I bet they even have estates and divoricing couples PAYING them to take back the deeds - another cash cow. Unreported cash cow.


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## mpizza (Aug 4, 2014)

More juicy court filings:


https://xa.yimg.com/kq/groups/21021570/863214936/name/AG&#39;s Memorandum of Law in Support .pdf

Investigation shows oversold units, misrepresentation from sales staff, etc.

Maria


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## Conan (Aug 4, 2014)

Conan said:


> I'm puzzled.  Whatever it says in the offering statement, if I own say apartment 1201 in week 15, or if 52 people own 52 floating weeks in apartment 1201, how can management put apartment 1201 out for rent? (Not to mention who gets that rental income.)



Nothing said about Unit 1201, but the memo of law (page 29) says they sold 75.48 annual weeks in Unit 2217.

I thought that only happened in Mel Brooks' _The Producers_!


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## Conan (Aug 4, 2014)

vacationhopeful said:


> The "owner" has "unsold inventory,... intervals out who are NOT paying MFs, and ..."unbookable" single nights - which can be rented out. Plus, ... most of January ... Or August.



That's not what the memo of law accuses them of doing. It says they sell more than 52 weeks per year in a given unit, and they also allow Bluegreen and RCI to offer out weeks to the public that they have no rights in!


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## rwein777 (Aug 4, 2014)

*Manhattan Club*

As a former owner of the Manhattan Club I have been exposed to it all.  Was hoping the owner suit against the club would have provided some relief.  I began suggesting that if you wished to stay there, even as and owner that it was easier to go to the hotel website and get a reservation than it was if you were an owner.   I had to pay to get rid of the liability.  Worst financial mistake if you considered it an investment.  I learned that it was not an investment but a liability over the 8 years I owned.


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## Sandy VDH (Aug 4, 2014)

Conan said:


> ..but the memo of law (page 29) says they sold 75.48 annual weeks in Unit 2217.



Well no wonder, oversold by some 45%.  No wonder there was never any availability. 

I guess the owner figured, like the airlines, there are some oversold situations.  I don't think the airline ever gets to a 45% oversold situation.


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## EducatedConsumer (Aug 4, 2014)

Finally, the truth surfaces. What a disgrace for the Manhattan Club developers and staff, particularly the developers and the sales people. Kudos to the New York State Attorney General for documenting the outrageous lies and misrepresentations made by the Manhattan Club. I suspect that by the time the AG is done, there will be nothing left of the Manhattan Club. 

If this is not recognized as a stern warning for all other timeshare developers and sales people, then their own stupidity will be their Admission Ticket to prison. 

I'd be curious to know what the timeshare developer trade association, ARDA, has to say about the antics of the Manhattan Club?


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## jjlovecub (Aug 5, 2014)

I wonder what will happen now?? I own 2 weeks there and while I hate the extreme advanced planning and high MF, I also enjoy my use of the property!


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## TUGBrian (Jun 2, 2016)

looks like a 2nd judge has now ruled to keep this ban in effect while the AG continues to investigate....that doesnt bode well for the resort!

http://www.reuters.com/article/manhattan-club-ruling-idUSL1N18U0DL


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