# 5 National Parks open thanks to STATE OF UTAH



## 1songbird (Oct 11, 2013)

So Happy!  Our vacation plans to drive from Las Vegas to Denver had changed drastically due to the Government shutdown.  Thanks to the State of Utah for paying to reopen Zion, Bryce Canyon, Arches, Cedar Breaks and Natural Bridges!

Melody


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## Talent312 (Oct 11, 2013)

Congrats!
In my own neck of the woods, they closed the recreation areas in Ocala Nat'l Forest, which means no canoeing in Juniper Springs or Alexander Springs, and the concessionaire may be put out of business. 

Innocent peep are being hurt. A truly sad state of affairs.


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## kwindham (Oct 11, 2013)

1songbird said:


> So Happy!  Our vacation plans to drive from Las Vegas to Denver had changed drastically due to the Government shutdown.  Thanks to the State of Utah for paying to reopen Zion, Bryce Canyon, Arches, Cedar Breaks and Natural Bridges!
> 
> Melody



WooHoo!  Glad someone is stepping in and helping out in the middle of this crisis that is disrupting a lot of our (tuggers) travel plans!


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## Lydlady (Oct 11, 2013)

*In Arches right now*

We are so glad for everyone else but bummed that we have been in Utah since Monday and have to head back


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## WinniWoman (Oct 11, 2013)

Excellent! Funny, the government didn't let Arizona do the same thing.


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## 1songbird (Oct 11, 2013)

So sorry!  I know how disappointing that must be!  It is very heartbreaking when you think about how many plans have been ruined by this and all the small business owners that may NEVER recover due to the economic hardships it has caused!


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## Jimster (Oct 11, 2013)

*open*

That's nice but it only makes things more convenient.  The closing of the CDC, NIH and loss of Veteran benefits make the loss of the parks look trivial.


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## Ken555 (Oct 11, 2013)

I don't understand why this thread is still active. It's political in every sense of the word. Please lock this thread...or else I may be unable to stop myself for posting a response to some of these posts! 


Sent from my iPad


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## HatTrick (Oct 11, 2013)

mpumilia said:


> Funny, the government didn't let Arizona do the same thing.



According to this, Arizona has reached a deal with the Department of the Interior to reopen the Grand Canyon.

http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way...d-to-re-open-national-parks-and-foot-the-bill


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## Passepartout (Oct 11, 2013)

And I read a few minutes ago that NY will be paying to open the Statue Of Liberty, as long as the thread is up.

ETA: S. Dakota may be opening Mt. Rushmore.

Jim


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## WinniWoman (Oct 12, 2013)

Ken555 said:


> I don't understand why this thread is still active. It's political in every sense of the word. Please lock this thread...or else I may be unable to stop myself for posting a response to some of these posts!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad




I don't see where this post is political. Sure, there are a few tiny remarks in the texts, but mainly it is informational as to what is going on with the opening and closing of the parks and how it affects people's travel plans. Chill out!


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## kwindham (Oct 12, 2013)

Im not seeing political either.  I know we were recently in  the smoky mtns and had to alter our plans, it totally messed up my mtn hiking I wanted to do on specific trails, they were closed.

I think _anything_ anyone (state, private, etc) can do is good news.


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## Talent312 (Oct 12, 2013)

Ken555 said:


> I don't understand why this thread is still active. It's political in every sense of the word.



IMHO, the posts on this subject are remarkably devoid of political content.

I'm sure some here are tempted to head in that direction (as if it was about Microsoft).
I just appreciate the fact that we can discuss it's effects on travel in a mature manner.
.


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## Lydlady (Oct 12, 2013)

Just curious if the parks are open today. We drove past the entrance to Arches yesterday and it was still closed. Maybe it was too early?


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## am1 (Oct 12, 2013)

What will the long-term effect be of these closures.  Will people continue to stay away or will they be even more crowded after they reopen?  No fun going to a park and there are people on top of you.


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## Ken555 (Oct 12, 2013)

mpumilia said:


> I don't see where this post is political. Sure, there are a few tiny remarks in the texts, but mainly it is informational as to what is going on with the opening and closing of the parks and how it affects people's travel plans. Chill out!



You bring up a good question. At what point does a thread become political? Is it political if there are a "few tiny remarks"? Where's the 'political line' at TUG? 

In my view these are political remarks:



> [...]and the concessionaire may be put out of business.
> 
> Innocent peep are being hurt. A truly sad state of affairs.





> Glad someone is stepping in and helping out in the middle of this crisis





> the government didn't let Arizona do the same thing.


 (This one is yours)



> [...]and all the small business owners that may NEVER recover due to the economic hardships it has caused!





> The closing of the CDC, NIH and loss of Veteran benefits make the loss of the parks look trivial.





> According to this, Arizona has reached a deal with the Department of the Interior to reopen the Grand Canyon.
> 
> http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/...-foot-the-bill


 (Do you really believe that article at NPR is non-political?).

If this thread was simply a list of which parks were open that would not be political, and would be very appropriate. The moment anyone posts a reason why the parks are closed, or expresses concern about why certain parks are open and others are not, it turns political. And as you can see, the majority of posts in this thread includes some political comment.

I don't like the concept of the parks being closed. But, I think TUG needs to be completely political-neutral. As it is, it's not.


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## HatTrick (Oct 12, 2013)

Ken555 said:


> (Do you really believe that article at NPR is non-political?).



Didn't think about it that way. But if you insist... _anonymous sources_ say that Arizona has reached a deal with the Department of the Interior to reopen the Grand Canyon.

Happy?


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## Ken555 (Oct 12, 2013)

HatTrick said:


> Didn't think about it that way. But if you insist... _anonymous sources_ say that Arizona has reached a deal with the Department of the Interior to reopen the Grand Canyon.
> 
> Happy?



No. You don't get it. Either TUG is non-political, or it isn't. I prefer non-political, since that encourages us to be more civil to each other and discuss the really important things, such as timeshares. But if we're going to allow some to mention, even slightly, a political statement, then I'm going to do so as well. So far, I've restrained myself. But if this thread continues as it is, I know a surefire way to get it locked.


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## Timeshare Von (Oct 12, 2013)

1songbird said:


> So Happy!  Our vacation plans to drive from Las Vegas to Denver had changed drastically due to the Government shutdown.  Thanks to the State of Utah for paying to reopen Zion, Bryce Canyon, Arches, Cedar Breaks and Natural Bridges!
> 
> Melody



Thank the taxpayers of Utah!


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## Timeshare Von (Oct 12, 2013)

Passepartout said:


> And I read a few minutes ago that NY will be paying to open the Statue Of Liberty, as long as the thread is up.
> Jim



Only through 10/17 and only if you got there from the NYC ferry side.  The ferry (operated by the same company) is not running from the NJ side.

Our trip to the Statue of Liberty is scheduled from NJ on 10/21 so we're still SOL (so far).


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## Talent312 (Oct 13, 2013)

*NPS Lists Re-Opened Parks*

From www.nps.gov, here is their list of reopened parks:

"As a result of donations from states to the National Park Service, the following national parks are temporarily re-opened."

• Arches NP (Utah, open October 11-20)
• Bryce Canyon NP (Utah, open October 11-20)
• Canyonlands NP (Utah, open October 11-20)
• Capitol Reef NP (Utah, open October 11-20)
• Cedar Breaks N.Mon. (Utah, open October 11-20)
• Glen Canyon N.Rec. Area (Utah, open October 11-20)
• Natural Bridges N.Mon. (Utah, open October 11-20)
• Zion NP (Utah, open October 11-20)
• Rocky Mountain NP (Colorado, open October 11-20)
• Statue of Liberty N.Mon. (New York, open October 12-17)
• Mount Rushmore N.Mem. (South Dakota, open October 14-23)
• Grand Canyon NP (Arizona, open October 12-18)

In addition, Virgin Islands National Park beaches and trails leading to beaches are open, including famous Trunk Bay, as a result of the conditions under which the Park was created.
.


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## PStreet1 (Oct 13, 2013)

I saw a governor (maybe Utah--shows how much attention I was paying) on tv saying the state was looking at how it would work for them to take over the National Parks within it's boundaries:  fund and take the revenue.

Interesting thought--and I'm not making a political statement; I'm just commenting that I did see some governor talking about the possibility, and obviously, they haven't done it yet.


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## HatTrick (Oct 13, 2013)

Ken555 said:


> So far, I've restrained myself. But if this thread continues as it is, I know a surefire way to get it locked.



So you're in favor of a _shutdown_ of this thread?  :rofl:


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## talkamotta (Oct 13, 2013)

At a time when all conversations will have a little political influence Im glad some of the parks are open.  

When I think of all the people who came from all over the country and all over the world to see our amazing wonderful National Parks....I don't think about the politicians but how lucky we are to live in such a beautiful  country, to share with others. To hear of people being turned away hurt me inside.  Ive been on the trails in Bryce surrounded by  hoodoos, on the trails of Walnut Canyon (thankful I didn't have to endure the hardships of our ancestors) or in the Smokey Mountains early in the morning when you know why they are called just that.  It brings tears to my eyes and gratitude in my heart.  I usually say a prayer of thanks, knowing that there is something greater than myself.  Im happy that others can share these  experiences in their own way.  Im glad that the taxpayers of Utah and other states are coming forward.  I am proud to be a Utah girl; I would expect our state to behave this way.   Again its only about the love for our beautiful country; nothing else.


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## Ken555 (Oct 13, 2013)

talkamotta said:


> I am proud to be a Utah girl; I would expect our state to behave this way.   Again its only about the love for our beautiful country; nothing else.



If you read the article posted earlier you would see that Utah may be doing this for purely economic reasons. Utah has lost millions and would lose a lot more during this month if the parks stay closed. Also, the article notes:



> Utah's battle to reopen the parks appears ironic to some, given strong resistance in the state to the establishment of national park areas and other federal reserves, and state legislation that challenges federal management of public lands.
> 
> "Utah resisted the creation of several of the national parks that now blanket southern Utah because it resented the federal control over land within the state," says John Copeland Nagle, a professor of law at Notre Dame University and the author of a forthcoming book on national parks.
> 
> "But now ... the towns of southern Utah have come to depend on the tourist revenue that the national parks generate," he says.




Sent from my iPad


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## Timeshare Von (Oct 14, 2013)

Well of course they did it for economic reasons!  It wasn't out of the kindness of their hearts.  It is also why many other states have chosen not to financially support reopening NPS sites in their states.  It's all about the money . . . all of it.


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## PStreet1 (Oct 14, 2013)

Why does their doing it because of economic concerns make it more political than if they did it simply to be nice to visitors?  They are doing it, for a while at least.  I'm sure they will evaluate how the week went and decide at that point whether they will continue.  It isn't political; it's just a fact.


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## Ken555 (Oct 14, 2013)

PStreet1 said:


> It isn't political; it's just a fact.



As I wrote earlier, if this thread was simply a list of open parks and no commentary, it would be a welcome addition. As it is, it's entirely political.

The root cause of Utah having to put up money to keep the parks open is due to the political problems we're facing regarding the budget (where clearly elections and the courts don't matter if one party doesn't respect the outcomes). I'm personally glad the parks are open in Utah, but I don't like the reasons Utah had to do it. However, I think we all should recognize that Utah is paying for the parks for their own financial gain, though I fully expect they will be reimbursed for this expense once we have an agreement on the budget, and is a political decision and has political implications.


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## WinniWoman (Oct 14, 2013)

Ken555-I am sure you are a very nice person, but I think you have a complex!


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## Ken555 (Oct 14, 2013)

mpumilia said:


> Ken555-I am sure you are a very nice person, but I think you have a complex!



That may be  but what I think is that many don't recognize what's happening here. Posting comments that Utah is opening the parks because they appreciate beauty is absurd (especially given Utah's history), yet why aren't others helping correct this obvious misunderstanding? Perhaps most are simply trying to ignore what's going on since there's so little we can do about it...and I certainly don't blame anyone for having that opinion.

Again, I think this thread should have restricted itself to simply listing which parks were open without any commentary whatsoever. Others opened the door to political statements, and I think any objective individual (if there is such a person these days) would understand. 


Sent from my iPad


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## HatTrick (Oct 14, 2013)

Ken555 said:


> I think this thread should have restricted itself to simply listing which parks were open without any commentary whatsoever.



Perhaps you should become a moderator.


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## WinniWoman (Oct 15, 2013)

Alrighty then!  Ken555................


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## Talent312 (Oct 17, 2013)

*Parks, Smithsonian & National Zoo Reopen*



HatTrick said:


> Perhaps you should become a moderator.


Or a covenant-enforcement guy for a neighborhood HOA. 
In any event...

*WASHINGTON (AP) —* The government reopened its doors Thursday after a battle-weary Congress approved a measure to end a 16-day partial shutdown and avert the possibility of an economy-jarring default on U.S. obligations. Early Thursday, President Barack Obama signed the measure, which the House and Senate passed late Wednesday... 

The White House directed all agencies to reopen promptly and in an orderly fashion. Furloughed federal employees across the country are expected to return to work Thursday.... There were signs early Thursday that the federal government was slowly coming back to life. "We're back from the #shutdown!" the Smithsonian Institution crowed on Twitter, announcing that museums would reopen Thursday and the National Zoo in Washington on Friday.

_I wonder if the states will get refunds on their donations to the NPS?_


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## Timeshare Von (Oct 17, 2013)

Talent312 said:


> _I wonder if the states will get refunds on their donations to the NPS?_



I read somewhere "no" and that was why most were only coming to a deal for a short period of time, many only through 10/17 or 10/18 and keeping options open for a "day to day" decision beyond.

I'd been following the deal for the Statue of Liberty and they had one through today (or tomorrow . . . even the NPS, NY and their ferry concessionaire had different dates out there).  It was reported that to extend, they would come to additional two-day extensions in order to avoid outlaying more money than necessary to get them to the point of when the gov't would resume a full reopening.

In light of previous comments about unverified "news" . . . please know, I did not verify the source.  Maybe it's true and maybe not.


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## HatTrick (Oct 17, 2013)

Ken555 said:


> Again, I think this thread should have restricted itself to simply listing which parks were open without any commentary whatsoever.



Attention: All national parks are open today. That is all.


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## Ken555 (Oct 18, 2013)

Talent312 said:


> Or a covenant-enforcement guy for a neighborhood HOA.



Is that slightly below used car sales?...


Sent from my iPad


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