# What are your thoughts about the new Maui Sunscreen Law - 10/1/22



## Tamaradarann (Oct 3, 2022)

I have been reading about the new Maui Sunscreen Law that went into effect Saturday 10/1/22.  The sunscreens that my husband and I use would not qualify since there are only 2 ingredients, *titanium dioxide and zinc oxide, *that are permitted.  The law forbids the sale, distribution, and use of other sunscreen products, therefore, you can't bring other sunscreens into Maui to use.   My husband is a Melanoma survivor so he uses his sunscreen over all the exposed parts of his body everyday before going out.  He rarely goes in the water and didn't when we went to Maui in September.  As most things that get implemented this could be changed but at this time we are threatened with a $1000/day fine if we return to Maui unless we comply.  The *titanium dioxide and zinc oxide sunscreens *that we have seen do not work for us.  So there are many timeshares on other Hawaiian Islands as well as the 9th Island, Las Vegas, that we can  use our points in.  Maui has been looking to reduce its number of tourists perhaps they found the solution.


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## klpca (Oct 3, 2022)

I can't comment directly on the sunscreen ban - simply not very familiar with the products. First off because (I think) of being part Hawaiian, it is rare for me to burn. Just a wee bit of any sunblock on my shoulders and I am good to go. That said as a person who snorkels a lot when I travel, I have noticed the deterioration of reefs over the past 40 years or so. It isn't a maybe, it's a definite, so I understand the concern. To that point, I switched to wearing a long sleeve rash guard in the water back in 2018 and I actually prefer it to sunscreen. I find it easier to wear, I never get any color on my skin anymore - not pink, not tan. I also use a sunshirt when hiking, although if it gets hot enough I will use spf 50. I was told by some divers that in addition to a rash guard there are long pants called skins that you can use to cover your legs. I haven't needed these but for others it may be an option. 

I am curious how they are going to track this? It is really a big deal when going into the ocean but on land I can't see why they would really care.


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## slip (Oct 3, 2022)

I saw this on the news yesterday and was going to post it also.

This says Hawaii Island to follow In December but only for sale and distribution.


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## Sandy VDH (Oct 3, 2022)

klpca said:


> It is really a big deal when going into the ocean but on land I can't see why they would really care.




All water runs downhill.  Just because you don't go into the ocean doesn't mean it doesn't get there via waste water.  People shower and bath and that makes its way into the water system, and perhaps into the ocean through some waste processing treatments.

I too find that most of the reef safe don't  work for me either.  I too wear a skin and now wear long swim pants.  I put sunscreen on my face, hands and ankles. I too have had melanoma removed.


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## Tamaradarann (Oct 3, 2022)

klpca said:


> I can't comment directly on the sunscreen ban - simply not very familiar with the products. First off because (I think) of being part Hawaiian, it is rare for me to burn. Just a wee bit of any sunblock on my shoulders and I am good to go. That said as a person who snorkels a lot when I travel, I have noticed the deterioration of reefs over the past 40 years or so. It isn't a maybe, it's a definite, so I understand the concern. To that point, I switched to wearing a long sleeve rash guard in the water back in 2018 and I actually prefer it to sunscreen. I find it easier to wear, I never get any color on my skin anymore - not pink, not tan. I also use a sunshirt when hiking, although if it gets hot enough I will use spf 50. I was told by some divers that in addition to a rash guard there are long pants called skins that you can use to cover your legs. I haven't needed these but for others it may be an option.
> 
> I am curious how they are going to track this? It is really a big deal when going into the ocean but on land I can't see why they would really care.



When going outside in the sun my husband wears an SPF 50 long sleeve jacket and hat.  However, he still needs to cover his face, neck, hands, and lower legs with sunblock since he wears shorts.  While I can understand the protection of the reefs if laws are made too restrictive they will either be ignored and violated or people will stay away.  The island of Hawaii is only prohibiting the sale and distribution so that people can bring in their own sunblock which is what we would do.


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## 1Kflyerguy (Oct 3, 2022)

I also use a rash guard when in the pool or ocean.  A few years back we shifted to reef safe sunscreen and have had good luck with Thinksport sunscreen.  Think i read about it in a magazine or online when Hawaii first started talking about the issue.  

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00K3JQO9Y/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1 

Its harder to apply, but for me at least it works as well or better than the big name stuff i used to use.  

We have been going to the Big Island for many years, and some of the snorkel spots are practically dead compared to 30 years ago...


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## geist1223 (Oct 3, 2022)

I have been wearing a Skin that covers me from ankle to wrist for about 12 years when ever I am in the Ocean. It protects from the Sun, a tiny tiny amount of warmth, and also minor Jelly Fish. I wear a long sleeve rash shirt in the pool or Hot Tub. Patti started with a single piece Skin initially but switched to long sleeve Shirt and separate Bottom for ease of going to the bathroom. I also wear a dive cap. It keeps the sun off my mostly bald head and because of its bright color it makes it easy for Patti to keep track of me.


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## slip (Oct 3, 2022)

I just started to wear a short sleeve rash guard in the pool. My wife had one for a while and it worked well for her so I had her order me one. I have never worn sun screen and still don't. If I am in the pool for a long time, I also wear a baseball hat. 

I usually don't burn but I do pay attention to how long I am in the sun.


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## dioxide45 (Oct 4, 2022)

Could you buy a bottle of the approved stuff, empty it and refill it with the stuff that you like and know works and bring that with you? It isn't like they are going to be testing the product, or even checking it at the beaches. From what I have read about the science behind the products and coral bleaching, the studies are pretty flimsy. There is just as good a chance that urine from all the excess swimmers is the cause and not sunscreen.


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## JIMinNC (Oct 4, 2022)

dioxide45 said:


> Could you buy a bottle of the approved stuff, empty it and refill it with the stuff that you like and know works and bring that with you? It isn't like they are going to be testing the product, or even checking it at the beaches. From what I have read about the science behind the products and coral bleaching, the studies are pretty flimsy. There is just as good a chance that urine from all the excess swimmers is the cause and not sunscreen.



Eeew!  Think about that the next time you go snorkeling!


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## Tamaradarann (Oct 4, 2022)

Sandy VDH said:


> All water runs downhill.  Just because you don't go into the ocean doesn't mean it doesn't get there via waste water.  People shower and bath and that makes its way into the water system, and perhaps into the ocean through some waste processing treatments.
> 
> I too find that most of the reef safe don't  work for me either.  I too wear a skin and now wear long swim pants.  I put sunscreen on my face, hands and ankles. I too have had melanoma removed.



If the sunblock getting into the ocean when people shower becomes an issue then we all need to take a step back and think about what we put down the toilet and sinks that get into the ocean. 

We don't want to give up the sunblock that we use unless a suitable substitute is found.  While I have simpathy for the survival of the coral there other environmental concerns that I have.  The Global Warming effect on the ocean level rise which can be readily seen in Hawaii and the devastating storm that just his Florida is paramount in my mind.  We live in Honolulu without a car.  However, most people in the building we live in have a car.  How many people are willing to give up their automobile and walk or ride the bus to avoid contributing to the buring of fossile fuels every time they go some place.  What would happen if they passed a law that after January 1, 2023 no personal cars would be allowed in Waikiki and Downtown Honolulu?


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## 1Kflyerguy (Oct 4, 2022)

Tamaradarann said:


> If the sunblock getting into the ocean when people shower becomes an issue then we all need to take a step back and think about what we put down the toilet and sinks that get into the ocean.



The water treatment plants process out the stuff goes down the sinks and toilets..  They know and expect that, and its pretty easy to process.. It much harder or impossible to filter out chemicals..


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## Tamaradarann (Oct 4, 2022)

1Kflyerguy said:


> The water treatment plants process out the stuff goes down the sinks and toilets..  They know and expect that, and its pretty easy to process.. It much harder or impossible to filter out chemicals..



There are alot of cleaning chemicals going down the toilet and sinks as well as the dishwashers and washing machines.


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## slip (Oct 5, 2022)

I was sent this link today with some information.  I have found most of the information from Beat if Hawaii is good.









						Which Sunscreens Does Maui Law Allow? It's Complicated
					

Clarification on how to know which sunscreens Maui now permits. It's complicated of course.



					beatofhawaii.com


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## Tamaradarann (Oct 5, 2022)

slip said:


> I was sent this link today with some information.  I have found most of the information from Beat if Hawaii is good.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I get Beat of Hawaii also and that is where I have been getting most of my information about the Sunscreen Law in Maui.


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## davidvel (Oct 5, 2022)

I haven't read up on it enough other than that I understood chemicals in these sunscreens was found to bleach coral reefs. I guess we can all post our conspiracy theory articles and become experts in oceanography just like the c19 forum, so we can justify our chosen behavior.


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## dioxide45 (Oct 5, 2022)

davidvel said:


> I haven't read up on it enough other than that I understood chemicals in these sunscreens was found to bleach coral reefs. I guess we can all post our conspiracy theory articles and become experts in oceanography just like the c19 forum, so we can justify our chosen behavior.


Perhaps you should read up on it more instead of accusing others of spreading conspiracy theories.


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## davidvel (Oct 6, 2022)

dioxide45 said:


> Perhaps you should read up on it more instead of accusing others of spreading conspiracy theories.


I didn't accuse anyone of anything. If I had I would have replied to a post or referenced someone in my post. I was just predicting where this thread was headed. 

But as they say, "If the shoe fits..."


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## dioxide45 (Oct 6, 2022)

davidvel said:


> I didn't accuse anyone of anything. If I had I would have replied to a post or referenced someone in my post. I was just predicting where this thread was headed.
> 
> But as they say, "If the shoe fits..."


Do you were trying to start an argument where there wasn't one? I think they call it "stirring the pot?"


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## pedro47 (Oct 6, 2022)

So will Maui have a sunscreen cop patrol unit to enforce this new law?


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## pedro47 (Oct 6, 2022)

dioxide45 said:


> Do you were trying to start an argument where there wasn't one? I think they call it "stirring the pot?"


That is so funny.LOL


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## pedro47 (Oct 6, 2022)

slip said:


> I was sent this link today with some information.  I have found most of the information from Beat if Hawaii is good.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Slip, thanks for sharing the accurate information about the new Maui sunscreen law.


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## ScoopKona (Oct 6, 2022)

People need to understand that cess pits and septic tanks are still normal here. 

Yes, everything you flush and shower away matters. We still have a reef. And I'd like to keep it that way for as long as humanly possible. Once I actually have some free time, that's how I plan to spend it -- helping Mote Marine Laboratory regrow coral.

There's going to be enormous amounts of whataboutism and pushback. "Whatabout the locals who dump antifreeze and motor oil in a ditch?" (Yes, these people suck. We're working on it.) "Whatabout the miles of fishing net and monofilament wrecking the reef? (We're aware and cleaning it up.) "Whatabout my medical condition? I can only use poisonous sunscreen!" (There's a submarine tour in Maui. Try that.)

Since a significant minority won't do the right thing, because they're special snowflakes, asking them to please watch what they introduce to the coral reef isn't working. Hence, legislation. I hope the other counties enact similar legislation. Even better, I hope we kick-start the idea that in addition to removing rocks from Hawaii, Pele now curses anyone who damages coral reefs. Laws aren't going to work on average people. But curses and superstition might.

And, frankly, I don't want to hear it about sunscreen. Wear long-sleeve clothes. Wear a wetsuit. Never heard of anyone being sunburnt, face down, wearing a three-mil wetsuit.


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## Tamaradarann (Oct 6, 2022)

ScoopKona said:


> People need to understand that cess pits and septic tanks are still normal here.
> 
> Yes, everything you flush and shower away matters. We still have a reef. And I'd like to keep it that way for as long as humanly possible. Once I actually have some free time, that's how I plan to spend it -- helping Mote Marine Laboratory regrow coral.
> 
> ...



Wow!


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## Tamaradarann (Oct 7, 2022)

ScoopKona said:


> People need to understand that cess pits and septic tanks are still normal here.
> 
> Yes, everything you flush and shower away matters. We still have a reef. And I'd like to keep it that way for as long as humanly possible. Once I actually have some free time, that's how I plan to spend it -- helping Mote Marine Laboratory regrow coral.
> 
> ...



We haven't yet heard about the enforcement of the New Maui Suncreen Law so perhaps it is just a law that will not result in enforcemnt and therefore action from tourists.  However, if the law get enforced it may get tourists to consider enjoying the other islands rather than Maui.  I always say that all the islands are beauiful and we have enjoyed our stays on all of them. 

During our resent stay on Maui we were charged about $30/night in TAT, Transient Accomodations Tax, which we thought was very high.  Since my husband must wear sunblock on his "snowflake skin" all the time when outside even though he is not going in the water, to prevent a reoccurance of life threatening Melanoma, we will spend our money on other islands in the future.


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## Luanne (Oct 9, 2022)

Tamaradarann said:


> We haven't yet heard about the enforcement of the New Maui Suncreen Law so perhaps it is just a law that will not result in enforcemnt and therefore action from tourists.  However, if the law get enforced it may get tourists to consider enjoying the other islands rather than Maui.  I always say that all the islands are beauiful and we have enjoyed our stays on all of them.
> 
> During our resent stay on Maui we were charged about $30/night in TAT, Transient Accomodations Tax, which we thought was very high.  Since my husband must wear sunblock on his "snowflake skin" all the time when outside even though he is not going in the water, to prevent a reoccurance of life threatening Melanoma, we will spend our money on other islands in the future.


I believe this law is going to apply to all of the islands, not just Maui.


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## ScoopKona (Oct 9, 2022)

Luanne said:


> I believe this law is going to apply to all of the islands, not just Maui.



Sadly, it's just Maui for now. Big Island has legislation in the pipeline.

Like leaded paint, leaded gas and chlorofluorocarbons, these reef-bleachers need to be banned worldwide just as fast as possible. Nobody has the right to poison the planet.


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## Luanne (Oct 9, 2022)

ScoopKona said:


> Sadly, it's just Maui for now. Big Island has legislation in the pipeline.
> 
> Like leaded paint, leaded gas and chlorofluorocarbons, these reef-bleachers need to be banned worldwide just as fast as possible. Nobody has the right to poison the planet.


The information I found is incorrect then.  I don't remember who the source was. I thought it was a newspaper from Hawaii.


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## letsgobobby (Oct 9, 2022)

what do people mean when they say titanium and zinc "don't work for them?"


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## slip (Oct 9, 2022)

Luanne said:


> The information I found is incorrect then.  I don't remember who the source was. I thought it was a newspaper from Hawaii.



This was in an article I read.


The state also has a rule in place, but it only bans the sale of sunscreen with oxybenzone and octinoxate in an effort to protect reefs.


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## ScoopKona (Oct 9, 2022)

slip said:


> The state also has a rule in place, but it only bans the sale of sunscreen with oxybenzone and octinoxate in an effort to protect reefs.



Retailers haven't gotten with the program. I see oxybenzone all the time -- I check. This was on the shelves in big retailers as of a couple months ago on Big Island.

I really want to start bringing a sharpie and write "reef poison" on these bottles as I see them.


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## slip (Oct 9, 2022)

ScoopKona said:


> Retailers haven't gotten with the program. I see oxybenzone all the time -- I check. This was on the shelves in big retailers as of a couple months ago on Big Island.
> 
> I really want to start bringing a sharpie and write "reef poison" on these bottles as I see them.



It will all come down to enforcement.


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## ScoopKona (Oct 9, 2022)

letsgobobby said:


> what do people mean when they say titanium and zinc "don't work for them?"



It means they're unwilling to wear longer clothes, hats, wetsuits, or the kind of sunscreen which doesn't cause reef bleaching. There are dozens of ways to mitigate the sun which don't involve oxybenzone or octinoxate. 

This reminds me of the pearl-clutching when CFCs were banned. "But what about my beloved _AquaNet_?"


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## letsgobobby (Oct 9, 2022)

I wouldn't presume to know, but I am curious.


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## ScoopKona (Oct 9, 2022)

letsgobobby said:


> I wouldn't presume to know, but I am curious.



It drives me nuts that I can spell oxybenzone and octinoxate without looking them up. This [excrement] shouldn't be allowed in the ocean. Just like DDT, Roundup, lead-based paint and similar. 

It's always the same song and dance:

1) New product introduced
2) New product found to be toxic to humans/birds/coral/bees/whatever.
3) "How DARE you suggest I live my life without my toxic chemicals!"
4) Acceptance, and people laughing about how stupid humans used to be, spraying AquaNet and wrecking the Ozone Layer.

I wish we could just skip to #4 without #3, just once.


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## Tamaradarann (Oct 10, 2022)

ScoopKona said:


> It means they're unwilling to wear longer clothes, hats, wetsuits, or the kind of sunscreen which doesn't cause reef bleaching. There are dozens of ways to mitigate the sun which don't involve oxybenzone or octinoxate.
> 
> This reminds me of the pearl-clutching when CFCs were banned. "But what about my beloved _AquaNet_?"



My husband does wear an SPF 50 long sleave jacket and hat when out is the sun per his dematolgist's instructions.  The SPF 50 sunscreen per his dematolgist's instruction to cover the rest of his exposed skin does not contain *oxybenzone or octinoxate.  *However the Law in Maui does not just outlaw those 2 chemicals it specifies that only* titanium dioxide and zinc oxide sunscreens *are permitted.  Therefore, that is our concern with the Maui Law.  The law in the rest of Hawaii outlaws *oxybenzone or octinoxate *which is workable since there are many other sunscreens out there that don't have those chemicals.


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## easyrider (Oct 10, 2022)

There are plenty of coral safe sunscreens so this shouldn't be an issue, imo. Only a small percentage of sunscreens contain these reef killer chemical which work well for land activities like golf. My ideal of saving the Hawaiian coral reefs are pretty simple. Limit the user numbers, make them take a shower and make users pay for the attendant that educates them on coral sustainability . Closing the coral reefs to human activities when the water temperature warms in dry seasons might be helpful. 

Bill


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## davidvel (Oct 10, 2022)

easyrider said:


> There are plenty of coral safe sunscreens so this shouldn't be an issue, imo. Only a small percentage of sunscreens contain these reef killer chemical which work well for land activities like golf. *My ideal of saving the Hawaiian coral reefs are pretty simple. Limit the user numbers, make them take a shower and make users pay for the attendant that educates them on coral sustainability . Closing the coral reefs to human activities when the water temperature warms in dry seasons might be helpful.*
> 
> Bill


Sounds simple enough. Should be easy to implement. 
Aren't water temperatures pretty uniform year round in Hawaii?


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## ScoopKona (Oct 10, 2022)

Tamaradarann said:


> The law in the rest of Hawaii outlaws *oxybenzone or octinoxate *which is workable since there are many other sunscreens out there that don't have those chemicals.



That law isn't working. I can go to the store tomorrow and find sunscreen which has these chemicals. Tourists bring sunscreen containing these chemicals because they either don't know any better, or don't care.

I'll keep saying it -- there are workarounds. There are workarounds even if they ban sunscreen entirely. I already watched one coral reef die in the Florida Keys. And I'm not interested in watching the reefs die here.

Humans need coral reefs. Coral reefs don't need humans.


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## easyrider (Oct 10, 2022)

davidvel said:


> Sounds simple enough. Should be easy to implement.
> Aren't water temperatures pretty uniform year round in Hawaii?



Kind of. The difference is under 10 degrees. Dry season temps can get over 80 and wet season temps can get below 75. The big problem is there are just too many people in the water. Something that isn't brought up is the fact that many swimmers urinate in the water and too many people urinating in the same area can increase nitrate levels which contribute to algae growth which suffocates coral.

Farm run off is another problem that increases sediment and nitrates to the coral reefs. Sediment kills coral in a similar way as nitrates because it promotes algae. There should be a moratorium that doesn't allow agriculture or golf courses within areas prone to run off such as hills and streams. 


Bill


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## SandyPGravel (Oct 10, 2022)

USVI enacted this same style legislation a few years ago.  There is zero enforcement regarding product brought into the USVI.  Heck charter boats do not want aerosol sunscreen being used because it causes a dangerous slip hazard on the boats and that isn't even enforced.  (Besides the issue that all aerosol sunscreen is banned because of the ingredients) People just spray away.  

I find applying sunscreen to be annoying.  I have swim pants and a swim jacket with a hood that covers my head and neck.  Yep, I look like a dork, do I care...nope.    I use sunscreen on my hands feet and face.  Cuts down on application time.


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## Tamaradarann (Oct 10, 2022)

ScoopKona said:


> That law isn't working. I can go to the store tomorrow and find sunscreen which has these chemicals. Tourists bring sunscreen containing these chemicals because they either don't know any better, or don't care.
> 
> I'll keep saying it -- there are workarounds. There are workarounds even if they ban sunscreen entirely. I already watched one coral reef die in the Florida Keys. And I'm not interested in watching the reefs die here.
> 
> Humans need coral reefs. Coral reefs don't need humans.





ScoopKona said:


> That law isn't working. I can go to the store tomorrow and find sunscreen which has these chemicals. Tourists bring sunscreen containing these chemicals because they either don't know any better, or don't care.
> 
> I'll keep saying it -- there are workarounds. There are workarounds even if they ban sunscreen entirely. I already watched one coral reef die in the Florida Keys. And I'm not interested in watching the reefs die here.
> 
> Humans need coral reefs. Coral reefs don't need humans.



There are chemicals in the sunscreens that you can find in the stores that are spelled somewhat closely to the chemicals that are outlawed in all of Hawaii, *oxybenzone or octinoxate, *but are not the same.  Looking at this overall problem I am not sure if the concern is just those two chemicals or all chemicals.  Even the 2 sunscreen components that are permitted in Maui,* titanium dioxide and zinc oxide, *are chemicals.  Therefore, before laws are passed; people are fined; sunscreens are banned, approved and developed the specific chemistry that we are all talking about needs to be identified.  Effective Sunscreens are a medical necessity for humans in 2022 so that must be taken into consideration when moving forward


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## ScoopKona (Oct 10, 2022)

Tamaradarann said:


> There are chemicals in the sunscreens that you can find in the stores that are spelled somewhat closely to the chemicals that are outlawed in all of Hawaii, *oxybenzone or octinoxate, *but are not the same.




Maui is going with "what do we _know_ is safe?" As opposed to the state's, "What are we _certain_ is unsafe" approach. It has not been determined that those two substances are the only two which are bleaching reefs. Only that we're sure of these two. Research continues on Avobenzone, Octocrylene and the dozens of other substances we're slathering on.

We're also sure that titanium dioxide and zinc oxide are safe. (Titanium dioxide has been studied to death, seeing it was the replacement for lead in paint formulas.)

So I'm 100% fine with Maui going with "what do we know is safe?" 100%. Furthermore I hope there are inspectors, going through bags, confiscating bottles of reef poison. I hope there are fines so steep that Hawaiian retailers lose sleep over it. I hope that the chemicals we're sure are bad for marine life are removed from the mix permanently (with the sort of gusto we once showed for DDT.) And I hope we keep researching this so that the planet's biodiversity nurseries don't die.


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## davidvel (Oct 10, 2022)

Just as predicted the Tug "scientists" are back with their  theories, couched as fact.


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## NTP66 (Oct 10, 2022)

At the end of the day, we voluntarily switched to ThinkSport SPF50 years ago after reading about bleaching issues in Hawai'i, wanting to do my part. It doesn't apply as easily as traditional sunscreen, but does apply better than the other 3 brands we tried, and is available everywhere (I posted an Amazon link, but you can get it at Target, etc.). It also protected just as well as traditional sunscreen IME. I burn easily, yet have not had a single issue on any Maui trip since switching. I highly recommend it.


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## ScoopKona (Oct 10, 2022)

NTP66 said:


> It also protected just as well as traditional sunscreen IME. I burn easily, yet have not had a single issue on any Maui trip since switching. I highly recommend it.



The big picture problem is that when faced with new regulations, manufacturers are choosing to wind-down the sale of sunscreen which contains harmful chemicals -- for Hawaii only. And even then, I can find offending sunscreen on the shelves right now.

And it's still full speed ahead with anything which _might_ damage the reef, but hasn't been proven one way or the other. There is a laundry list of chemicals which are considered at the very least "risky."

If this continues, the next step will be banning trips to hard-to-reach places to take pressure off the reefs. Molokini, for instance. This is bad for everyone -- snorkel businesses will fail and people won't be allowed to enjoy the reef. But it's better than a dead reef. It's clear (to me at least), we're going to have to ban all inbound sunscreen and force people to buy it here. I don't trust the average person even as far as I could drop-kick him or her. They'll buy reef-safe sunscreen, squeeze it all out of the bottle, and put the banned sunscreen in -- because they like it better.

The vast, vast majority don't even realize this is a problem. And of those who know, too many simply don't care.

EDIT -- This sunscreen ban will have to last until finding a bottle of reef-bleaching sunscreen is about as rare as finding a can of CFC AquaNet hair spray. The faster the manufacturers get with the program, the faster we can disband the sunscreen police.


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## Tamaradarann (Oct 11, 2022)

NTP66 said:


> At the end of the day, we voluntarily switched to ThinkSport SPF50 years ago after reading about bleaching issues in Hawai'i, wanting to do my part. It doesn't apply as easily as traditional sunscreen, but does apply better than the other 3 brands we tried, and is available everywhere (I posted an Amazon link, but you can get it at Target, etc.). It also protected just as well as traditional sunscreen IME. I burn easily, yet have not had a single issue on any Maui trip since switching. I highly recommend it.



Just tried to purchase ThinkSport SPF50 at Target since it is an easy return if it doesn't work for us.  Sold Out.  Perhaps this is a possible solution to the sunblock problem.  However, if the supply chain can't keep up with the demand then what.  ScoopKona's lack of tolerance for other people concerns would mean don't use any.  Our needs differers from his.


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## Tucsonadventurer (Oct 11, 2022)

Like anything new it is finding which sunscreen work for you. Some do not protect as much, some do. Many make you look bleached out, some don't. I have been reading the blogs for the last few years and ordering from Amazon, trying out various reef safe sunscreens. People won't comply unless it is enforced and I doubt bags will be checked, but hopefully this law will make a difference .My husband had melanoma also 15 yrs back and always wears a long sleeve sun shirt and finds shade. I'm ok if less people want to go to Maui, lol.


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## NTP66 (Oct 11, 2022)

I would also avoid Blue Lizard at all costs. That was like applying thick paint to your skin, and I had to quite literally scrub my skin to get it off after a period of time. Sand stuck to it to make my leg into sandpaper. Easily the worst sunscreen I have ever tried.


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## easyrider (Oct 11, 2022)

davidvel said:


> Just as predicted the Tug "scientists" are back with their  theories, couched as fact.



You might consider this "conspiracy theory" but politicians will divert attention from an obvious reason that creates wealth with an unobvious reason that doesn't regarding why something is happening. In Hawaii, there is a run off problem because of all of the rain and polluted surfaces that causes crap to end up in the ocean. Not to mention too many people, accidently but not really caring either way, touching the coral. Obviously, requiring a sunblock lotion which comprises maybe 10% of all sunblock sales to be banned will fix these problems, lol. 

Bill


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## pedro47 (Oct 11, 2022)

slip said:


> It will all come down to enforcement.


I liked your observation. So the Maui police department will need to establish a special Sunscreen Unit to enforce this new Sunscreen Law.

One division will monitor the retail stores for compliance and a second unit will monitor the beaches, resorts and hotels for compliance and to enforce this new Sunscreen Law. Good Luck.

Will the Maui Sanitation Department be force to check empty sunscreen bottles before they are dump in the trash landfill . LOL


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## ScoopKona (Oct 11, 2022)

pedro47 said:


> I liked your observation. So the Maui police department will need to establish a special Sunscreen Unit to enforce this new Sunscreen Law.



Have TSA remove lotion from all inbound bags. Sorted.

Our reefs are already stressed. We need the same kind of global commitment on this issue that we had when the ozone layer was in peril. The only reason someone would enter the ocean wearing these reef-bleaching chemicals is either ignorance or spitefulness. Neither one is excusable.


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## Tamaradarann (Oct 11, 2022)

ScoopKona said:


> Have TSA remove lotion from all inbound bags. Sorted.
> 
> Our reefs are already stressed. We need the same kind of global commitment on this issue that we had when the ozone layer was in peril. The only reason someone would enter the ocean wearing these reef-bleaching chemicals is either ignorance or spitefulness. Neither one is excusable.



I just heard on Hawaii News at 5 that climate change has been the big problem with killing the Coral Reefs.  In order to save the Coral perhaps we need to burn less fossile fuels like gasoline and walk or take the bus and not use cars.  We live without a car in Hawaii.


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## ScoopKona (Oct 11, 2022)

Tamaradarann said:


> I just heard on Hawaii News at 5 that climate change has been the big problem with killing the Coral Reefs.  In order to save the Coral perhaps we need to burn less fossile fuels like gasoline and walk or take the bus and not use cars.  We live without a car in Hawaii.



It's all cumulative. Acidic, warming oceans are a big problem. But adding reef-bleaching chemicals to the mix is "the final straw."

Back during the ozone layer crisis, people demanded that they had to have their refrigerant and propellant of choice. "You can't ask me to run my HVAC business without chlorofluorocarbons! I'll go bankrupt!"

Too bad, so sad. 

Nobody has the right to poison the planet. It's bad enough that we constantly make the same mistake over and over -- lead paint, leaded gasoline, Roundup, oxybenzone. Just once I'd like us to go from "wow, this stuff is toxic" to "let's stop using it immediately" without people clutching pearls. "What about my beloved AquaNet????"


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## pedro47 (Oct 12, 2022)

Tamaradarann said:


> I just heard on Hawaii News at 5 that climate change has been the big problem with killing the Coral Reefs.  In order to save the Coral perhaps we need to burn less fossile fuels like gasoline and walk or take the bus and not use cars.  We live without a car in Hawaii.


In other words humans are the major causes of climate change.. 

They forgot to mention how human have changed the climate around planet earth by cutting down green trees in the name of progress. IMHO


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## Tamaradarann (Oct 15, 2022)

ScoopKona said:


> It's all cumulative. Acidic, warming oceans are a big problem. But adding reef-bleaching chemicals to the mix is "the final straw."
> 
> Back during the ozone layer crisis, people demanded that they had to have their refrigerant and propellant of choice. "You can't ask me to run my HVAC business without chlorofluorocarbons! I'll go bankrupt!"
> 
> ...



I think we can agree on the following:

Oxybenzone shouldn't be in sunscreen. The sunscreen we use doesn't have Oxybenzone.
If we can't find an acceptable sunscreen that complies with the Maui law we won't go there.  

Quote Reply
Rep


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## Tacoma (Oct 16, 2022)

When you look at the article posted way back by Slip it specifically mentions unless you have a prescription by a doctor. I would think that asking your doctor to prescribe a sunscreen and having the prescription with you would be the way to go. Hopefully there are some reef safe sunscreens that melanoma sufferers will be protected by, but if not your doctor should be able to give you a prescription for what will work best. Sounds better than cheating the system by refilling bottles with your favorite sunscreen. It did remind me to start shopping for reef safe sunscreen before my Belize trip in February. We have very few good options in Canada.


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## pedro47 (Oct 16, 2022)

Tacoma said:


> When you look at the article posted way back by Slip it specifically mentions unless you have a prescription by a doctor. I would think that asking your doctor to prescribe a sunscreen and having the prescription with you would be the way to go. Hopefully there are some reef safe sunscreens that melanoma sufferers will be protected by, but if not your doctor should be able to give you a prescription for what will work best. Sounds better than cheating the system by refilling bottles with your favorite sunscreen. It did remind me to start shopping for reef safe sunscreen before my Belize trip in February. We have very few good options in Canada.


Would an east coast doctor understand why you would need a sun screen prescription for MAUI ?


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## ScoopKona (Oct 16, 2022)

pedro47 said:


> Would an east coast doctor understand why you would need a sun screen prescription for MAUI ?



Does the East Coast doctor understand what's going on with the coral?

I snorkel all the time. If I'm not working, or watching football, I'm down at Kealakekua Bay, snorkeling. I bought this farm so that I could live less than a mile from Kealakekua Bay. It's my happy place. I get to look at that bay all day, and even some nights (when the moon is out, I can see the Bay just fine.)

Here's my strategy -- long sleeves and a hat on the trail down. Snorkel. Enjoy. Hydrate and eat a banana. Put on the sunscreen (reef safe titanium dioxide). And hike back. I do this a couple times a week. And when harvest is over I plan on going every/every-other day. There are only two activities I like more than snorkeling. One of them is travel. Guess the other. 

I want that reef to be around for future generations to enjoy. Humans NEED coral reefs. They are one of the major sources of Earth's biodiversity. Reefs don't need humans. And they certainly don't need humans which stand on reefs or wear toxic chemicals. 

Thankfully, the locals will cheerfully holler at tourists who aren't treating the reef with respect. I have heard, verbatim, "Stop standing on the reef or I'm going to swim out there and [censor] you up!" 

That's the kind of protection our reefs need.


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## Tacoma (Oct 17, 2022)

Actually I do believe that doctors are aware of why you might ask for a prescription. Many years ago I asked a pharmacist for help to find a reef safe sunscreen and he went through many bottles with me checking for one that would work. I believe that this is coming not just for Maui but many places and I am happy they are trying to do something. A year ago on a trip to a hidden beach in Mexico they would not let us use sunscreen at all. Fair we were warned and I travel with a water shirt. I put a towel over my legs when I felt the sun was too strong.  I believe we all have to do what we can (I loved the person who said their outfit made them look ridiculous and they didn't care) to protect ourselves from the sun in a way that does not harm the environment.  WHat I don't want is people doing everything possible to circumvent the rules because they like their sunscreen. I hope they do allow melanoma  survivors to use appropriate protection where they can't find a work around easily. Better sunscreens will be developed as the need increases.


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## 1Kflyerguy (Oct 18, 2022)

ScoopKona said:


> There are only two activities I like more than snorkeling. One of them is travel. Guess the other.



Arguing on internet forums?


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## 1Kflyerguy (Oct 18, 2022)

Tamaradarann said:


> I think we can agree on the following:
> 
> Oxybenzone shouldn't be in sunscreen. The sunscreen we use doesn't have Oxybenzone.
> If we can't find an acceptable sunscreen that complies with the Maui law we won't go there.
> ...



I do hope you can find a sunscreen that works for you.   Do try to check out the SportThink product.  My wife takes some medications that make her extra sensitive to the sun, and we find this works well for us.


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## easyrider (Oct 18, 2022)

1Kflyerguy said:


> Arguing on internet forums?



That comment actually made me laugh out loud.

Bill


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## Tamaradarann (Oct 18, 2022)

1Kflyerguy said:


> I do hope you can find a sunscreen that works for you.   Do try to check out the SportThink product.  My wife takes some medications that make her extra sensitive to the sun, and we find this works well for us.



We did try to get SportThink product the other day and it was out of stock.  Will keep trying.


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## Tamaradarann (Oct 18, 2022)

Tamaradarann said:


> We did try to get SportThink product the other day and it was out of stock.  Will keep trying.


The other concern with SportThink is the cost.  My husband uses a 12 oz container of Banana Boat Sport Ultra about every month, which costs around $12.  The SportThink on line prices are around the same for a 3 oz. container.  That is about 4 times the cost or about a $600/year expenditure.  As manufacturers all start to make reef safe sunscreen and make it it 8 or 12 oz containers the price should come down.


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## ScoopKona (Oct 18, 2022)

Tamaradarann said:


> The other concern with SportThink is the cost.  My husband uses a 12 oz container of *Banana Boat Sport Ultra* about every month, which costs around $12.  The SportThink on line prices are around the same for a 3 oz. container.  That is about 4 times the cost or about a $600/year expenditure.  As manufacturers all start to make reef safe sunscreen and make it it 8 or 12 oz containers the price should come down.



This one?

_Active Ingredients_:        Avobenzone (1.5%),                            Homosalate (15.0%),                            Octisalate (5.0%),                            Octocrylene (1.2%),                            Oxybenzone (6.0%)
_Inactive Ingredients_:        Water,                            Hydrogenated Dimer Dilinoleyl/Dimethylcarbonate Copolymer,                            Stearyl Alcohol,                            Glycerin,                                    Caprylyl Glycol,                            Cetyl Alcohol,                            Triethanolamine,                            Carbomer,                            Glyceryl Stearate,                            Behenyl Alcohol,                            Xanthan Gum,                            Sodium Lauroyl Sarcosinate,                            Disodium EDTA,                            Dipropylene Glycol,                            BHT,                            Disodium Ethylene Dicocamide PEG-15 Disulfate,                            Glyceryl Stearate Citrate,                            Cetearyl Alcohol,                            Sodium Lauroyl Lactylate,                            Retinyl Palmitate,                            Tocopheryl Acetate,                            Lecithin,                            Aloe Barbadensis Leaf Juice,                            Phenoxyethanol,                            Methyldibromo Glutaronitrile,                            Methylisothiazolinone,                            Methylchloroisothiazolinone 





__





						Banana Boat Ultra Sport Reef Friendly Sunscreen Lotion, SPF 50 ingredients (Explained)
					

Banana Boat Ultra Sport Reef Friendly Sunscreen Lotion, SPF 50 ingredients explained: Avobenzone (1.5%), Homosalate (15.0%), Octisalate (5.0%), Octocrylene (1.2%), Oxybenzone (6.0%), Water, Hydrogenated Dimer Dilinoleyl/Dimethylcarbonate Copolymer, Stearyl Alcohol, Glycerin, Caprylyl Glycol...




					incidecoder.com


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## Tamaradarann (Oct 19, 2022)

ScoopKona said:


> This one?
> 
> _Active Ingredients_:        Avobenzone (1.5%),                            Homosalate (15.0%),                            Octisalate (5.0%),                            Octocrylene (1.2%),                            Oxybenzone (6.0%)
> _Inactive Ingredients_:        Water,                            Hydrogenated Dimer Dilinoleyl/Dimethylcarbonate Copolymer,                            Stearyl Alcohol,                            Glycerin,                                    Caprylyl Glycol,                            Cetyl Alcohol,                            Triethanolamine,                            Carbomer,                            Glyceryl Stearate,                            Behenyl Alcohol,                            Xanthan Gum,                            Sodium Lauroyl Sarcosinate,                            Disodium EDTA,                            Dipropylene Glycol,                            BHT,                            Disodium Ethylene Dicocamide PEG-15 Disulfate,                            Glyceryl Stearate Citrate,                            Cetearyl Alcohol,                            Sodium Lauroyl Lactylate,                            Retinyl Palmitate,                            Tocopheryl Acetate,                            Lecithin,                            Aloe Barbadensis Leaf Juice,                            Phenoxyethanol,                            Methyldibromo Glutaronitrile,                            Methylisothiazolinone,                            Methylchloroisothiazolinone
> ...



You must have looked at an older version or a different SPF rating of the contents of the sunblock before they reformulated it.  The current version that I read off the bottle has the following active ingredients.  Avobenzone 2.7%, Homosalate 9.0%, Octisalate 4.5%, Octocylene 6.5%.  

While it doesn't contain* oxybenzone or octinoxate,* which are the ones that the EPA has outlawed and are prohibited in all of Hawaii, it doesn't comply with the more restrictive Maui law.


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## Tamaradarann (Oct 19, 2022)

Tamaradarann said:


> The sunscreen content issue is a changing issue.  The formula for Banana Boat Sport Ultra that ScoopKona detailed was the formulation at one time and they reformulated it to make it more reef friendly so it doesn't contain *oxybenzone or octinoxate.    *
> 
> This is an example of the maufacturer's of sunscreen making changes to make sunscreen more reef friendly.  Other changes are being researched.  I am sure that* titanium dioxide and zinc oxide* aren't the only chemicals that can be put in sunscreen that will not harm the coral.  Limiting sunsreen to just those 2 chemicals is very restrictive.  Just as we can't outlaw the burning of all fossil fuels that hurt the environment overnight (Just think about what would happen if fossil fuel burning cars were prohibited on Maui January 1, 2023!) the sunscreen law can't be so limited overnight.


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## 1Kflyerguy (Oct 19, 2022)

Amazon has the SportThink in larger tube which does bring the price per ounce down


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## ScoopKona (Oct 19, 2022)

Tamaradarann said:


> You must have looked at an older version or a different SPF rating of the contents of the sunblock before they reformulated it.  The current version that I read off the bottle has the following active ingredients.  Avobenzone 2.7%, Homosalate 9.0%, Octisalate 4.5%, Octocylene 6.5%.
> 
> While it doesn't contain* oxybenzone or octinoxate,* which are the ones that the EPA has outlawed and are prohibited in all of Hawaii, it doesn't comply with the more restrictive Maui law.



Think about it. That bottle I listed says both "reef safe" and contains reef bleaching chemicals. They knew damned well that isn't a reef safe formulation. If it were up to me, they'd be fined into oblivion for their dishonesty and cynical disregard for the planet.

THAT is the problem. The sunscreen manufacturers are being bad actors. They are slapping labels on the front, hoping nobody reads the fine print on the back. That's the reason for the Maui law. That and the fact that Avobenzone is still being studied. It's considered questionable at the moment.


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