# RCI Changes My Resort Exchange!



## GKK (May 7, 2011)

Anyone have this happen? After paying the $69 to extend my week and searching several times daily for months to find the weeks and the resorts I wanted to go to, I finally succeeded. Two weeks ago the time came for our vacation.....the day before we were to check out of the first resort and check into the second, RCI calls to tell us their was a mixup and we would not be able to have the unit we had chose for our second week and told us we would have to go to a different resort. "These things happen" she said. We had been to both resorts before and this is why I waited and kept searching daily to go back. So instead of having a nice unit with balcony overlooking the water, we ended up at a resort overlooking Ocean City Hwy with only the sidewalk between the hyw and the unit...very noisy...and a view of a trailer park across the street. I would really like some type of compensation. I had the exchanges for months, I don't understand why this problem arose the day before check -in.
GKK


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## MuranoJo (May 7, 2011)

Sorry this happened and it totally stinks.  Unfortunately, I have heard of it before.  Did you ask to speak to an RCI supervisor?  I would demand to be compensated, and you might get a bonus week to use at a future date.

I know it's little consolation at this time. It amazes me they would wait until the 11th hour to do this.  Always makes me wonder what's behind it.  Are they shuffling others along the way to compensate for a mistake down the line?  Who knows.


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## dougp26364 (May 7, 2011)

I see this sort of complaint more often with RCI on these forums, especially around the busier summer months, than any other complaint. I just can't imagine why timeshare owners put up with RCI's shanangan's. This will only change when either owners stop giving RCI membership dues or, insist that their HOA's explore other options for exchange companies. 

Most of the time, the complaint seems to go that RCI confirms an exchange, then calls to tell them the resort overbooked. There's either nothing available for their dates or, there's a less attractive resort option. How convenient for a company that rents units for profit. 

IMHO, RCI almost makes Westgate look good.

Maybe next time SFX might be a better option than RCI. I'd think that it'd be worth a try. I know if we ever decide to exchange our one RCI affiliated resort, it won't be with RCI but with SFX or even one of the other independant exchange companies.


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## Dori (May 7, 2011)

We had the same thing happen to us a few years ago. We arrived at check-in at Silver Lake Resort. After viewing our paperwork, the person at the front desk left us standing there for almost 15 minnutes, with no explanation. She finally arrived back, only to tell us that our unit was still under renovation (in peak February season??). They scrambled around and found us a spot at Orange Lake (one of my least favourite Orlando resorts). I will admit that they did try their best, but why did they not contact us beforehand?

Dori


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## Margariet (May 7, 2011)

GKK said:


> Anyone have this happen? After paying the $69 to extend my week and searching several times daily for months to find the weeks and the resorts I wanted to go to, I finally succeeded. Two weeks ago the time came for our vacation.....the day before we were to check out of the first resort and check into the second, RCI calls to tell us their was a mixup and we would not be able to have the unit we had chose for our second week and told us we would have to go to a different resort. "These things happen" she said. We had been to both resorts before and this is why I waited and kept searching daily to go back. So instead of having a nice unit with balcony overlooking the water, we ended up at a resort overlooking Ocean City Hwy with only the sidewalk between the hyw and the unit...very noisy...and a view of a trailer park across the street. I would really like some type of compensation. I had the exchanges for months, I don't understand why this problem arose the day before check -in.
> GKK



Which resorts are you talking about? Are they part of one group? If anything like that happens they should give you a resort of equal or better quality or an upgrade. Luckily we never had this, only upgrades.


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## Tia (May 7, 2011)

Kind of like bait and switch if you ask me.....


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## vckempson (May 7, 2011)

Anyone know where exactly the breakdown is occuring to allow such a thing to happen?  There's obviously only three choices, RCI, the Resort or the coordinating computer systems between the two.  

It seems more likely that the resort allows a unit to be deposited that can't be occupied for a variety of reasons.  Either way, it's downright unconscionable to be given a crap unit in lieu of a carefully selected location for a long carefully planned vacation.  

That experience would sour my impression of RCI in a heartbeat.


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## dougp26364 (May 7, 2011)

vckempson said:


> Anyone know where exactly the breakdown is occuring to allow such a thing to happen?  There's obviously only three choices, RCI, the Resort or the coordinating computer systems between the two.
> 
> It seems more likely that the resort allows a unit to be deposited that can't be occupied for a variety of reasons.  Either way, it's downright unconscionable to be given a crap unit in lieu of a carefully selected location for a long carefully planned vacation.
> 
> That experience would sour my impression of RCI in a heartbeat.



Funny how you read about this on a regular basis with RCI but, not so much with the other exchange companies.


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## california-bighorn (May 7, 2011)

This happened to us with an RCI exchange about 2 years ago.   We exchanged into one of the premier resorts at Lake Tahoe and we received a call from RCI about 3 weeks prior to check in to let us know due to on-site renovation, our exchange could no longer be accomidated.  At first they were going to change us to another resort that we did not want to go to. After talking with one of their sups for a while, we were given the exchange fee back and I don't remember all the details on getting our week back, but they extended the time we would have to use the week for another exchange since there was almost no time left on the original week at the time of their cancellation.  It was an inconvienence, but in our case, they did all we could expect.  Just glad we live within easy driving distance so there was no airfare involved.  That would have been a major problem.


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## dougp26364 (May 7, 2011)

california-bighorn said:


> This happened to us with an RCI exchange about 2 years ago.   We exchanged into one of the premier resorts at Lake Tahoe and we received a call from RCI about 3 weeks prior to check in to let us know due to on-site renovation, our exchange could no longer be accomidated.  At first they were going to change us to another resort that we did not want to go to. After talking with one of their sups for a while, we were given the exchange fee back and I don't remember all the details on getting our week back, but they extended the time we would have to use the week for another exchange since there was almost no time left on the original week at the time of their cancellation.  *It was an inconvienence, but in our case, they did all we could expect. * Just glad we live within easy driving distance so there was no airfare involved.  That would have been a major problem.



They did all you would expect? I'd expect to get the vacation I paid for and booked. Isn't that what an exchange company is suppose to provide? 

Why is it that we read these stories with RCI with regular frequency? What do we really think is happening? How many resorts overbook? How many resorts cancel confirmed reservations due to renovations? I thought a unit had to be deposited in order to be reserved? 

Either RCI is reserving units that aren't available or, their renting units for profit that have already been reserved through timeshare exchange. Whichever situation you choose to believe doesn't matter. The fact is, RCI seems to have no problem handing out reservations for units they don't have in their inventory. To me, that's a HUGE problem for an exchange company and an even bigger problem for timeshare owners wishing to exchange. 

Can you imagine if there was a considerable problem with cancelations through Expedia, Travelocity, Cheaptickets, Kayak or the like? They'd go out of business.


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## GKK (May 8, 2011)

Thanks for everyone's input. I will be writing to RCI, and will see what happens.
GKK


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## Laurie (May 8, 2011)

You could also call and ask to be assigned a "specialist" to search for a comp week for you to use later, and see what happens. If you write, try using that word. 

This has happened to me a couple of times (cancellations due to resort or RCI fault), but more in advance of check-in. 

I think they should pay for alternate accommodations for same dates and same standards, to replace your week if no alternate exchange is acceptable - but they won't. They also won't give you something out of their rental inventory to compensate the loss, should you spot something there you'd accept. 

Basically they work to get you into an exchange resort as close as possible geographically to your original exchange, without regard to why you chose your exchange in the first place. Once the date has passed, they're not so interested in making you happy or whole.

This practice has almost caused me to quit my membership a time or two. 

Good luck, I hope you'll get something to compensate you for their mess-up.


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## Carolinian (May 8, 2011)

Other exchange companies do handle such things better.  When I was on my HOA board, we had a member who had deposited a summer week with DAE/UK, and somehow there was some confusion on the dates and they had a British member confirmed in for the wrong week.  In working back and forth, DAE asked if the resort could find the week that their member was confirmed for, and if not they asked for where they could rent a week on the Outer Banks so that their member would not be left holding the bag.  The resort manager looked over the owners list for that week, when most owners used their weeks rather than exchanging anyway, and noticed one longtime owner who had not yet notified the resort whether they were coming or not, so she called them and they had a family event or something and were not coming.  She asked if they would like to deposit their week with DAE and then have a trade credit they could use later, and they agreed, so the problem was solved.  What impressed me with DAE's service was that they were ready to rent a week to cover for the snafu, not play the RCI game of ''sorry, you can't get the exchange, too bad''.


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## Carolinian (May 8, 2011)

vckempson said:


> Anyone know where exactly the breakdown is occuring to allow such a thing to happen?  There's obviously only three choices, RCI, the Resort or the coordinating computer systems between the two.
> 
> It seems more likely that the resort allows a unit to be deposited that can't be occupied for a variety of reasons.  Either way, it's downright unconscionable to be given a crap unit in lieu of a carefully selected location for a long carefully planned vacation.
> 
> That experience would sour my impression of RCI in a heartbeat.



There are no ''coordinating computer systems between the two'' so you can scratch that one.  When a week is deposited with RCI (or any other exchange company) they contact the resort to verify the deposit.  Unless the resort verifies it, it is not offered for exchange.  When an exchange is confirmed, the resort gets an inbound report from RCI with the exchangers info for the resort.  Most of the contact is by fax, or at least was a few years ago when I was on my HOA board.

Since a resort would have verified the deposit, an exchange company should hold their feet to the fire and not let them back out of it.  There is also no excuse for the last minute dance as the resort would have gotten the inbound report shortly after the exchange was confirmed.

It would have been interesting if the OP had talked to the resort they were originally confirmed into and see what their take on it was.  I remember a few years ago when a Tugger decided to get to the bottom of things and talked to the resort and found out that RCI had been feeding them a line as to why they did not get their confirmed exchange.


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## california-bighorn (May 8, 2011)

Carolinian said:


> It would have been interesting if the OP had talked to the resort they were originally confirmed into and see what their take on it was.  I remember a few years ago when a Tugger decided to get to the bottom of things and talked to the resort and found out that RCI had been feeding them a line as to why they did not get their confirmed exchange.



In the case of our Tahoe cancellation, I did call the resort to find out if there really was work being performed on units making it impossible to occupy.  The resort said that due to the long Winter their work was far behind schedule so in this case it wasn't RCI's fault.

And not to defend RCI to Doug, (I'm no fan and have since terminated membership with them) but since they offered another comparable resort or refund of exchange fees and our week back, I still think that was reasonable on their behalf.  I wouldn't expect anything more.  We just wanted to try staying at a different resort and it didn't work out that time.


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## dougp26364 (May 8, 2011)

california-bighorn said:


> In the case of our Tahoe cancellation, I did call the resort to find out if there really was work being performed on units making it impossible to occupy.  The resort said that due to the long Winter their work was far behind schedule so in this case it wasn't RCI's fault.
> 
> *And not to defend RCI to Doug, (I'm no fan and have since terminated membership with them)* but since they offered another comparable resort or refund of exchange fees and our week back, I still think that was reasonable on their behalf.  I wouldn't expect anything more.  We just wanted to try staying at a different resort and it didn't work out that time.



There is no defense for RCI.   Good for you for dropping them as your exchange company.


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## DaveNV (May 8, 2011)

Awhile back RCI backed out of an exchange I had with them, also months after the exchange was made.  When all the dust was settled, it seems the depositor had defaulted on paying his maintenance fees, and his ownership had been terminated.  The future week he'd deposited that I'd exchanged for was no longer available.  

I was assigned a specialist, and within a few weeks I got the exchange I wanted, when another week at the same resort had been deposited by someone else. In that case I couldn't blame RCI too much, since the problem was that they'd accepted a future week in good faith, and the depositor flaked out.    

Dave


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## BevL (May 8, 2011)

Yep, had the same situation a few years back when the resort decided to change their maintenance schedule - not RCI's fault - and I confirmed with the resort that's what happened.

In our case, they were able to get our daughter into the same resort but she had to move her checkin date back a day.  Since it was a drive to destination, that wasn't a major issue.

I didn't push for any compensation since it was a minor inconvenience.  But again, it really was circumstances outside RCI's control.


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## dougp26364 (May 8, 2011)

BMWguynw said:


> Awhile back RCI backed out of an exchange I had with them, also months after the exchange was made.  When all the dust was settled, it seems the depositor had defaulted on paying his maintenance fees, and his ownership had been terminated.  The future week he'd deposited that I'd exchanged for was no longer available.
> 
> I was assigned a specialist, and within a few weeks I got the exchange I wanted, when another week at the same resort had been deposited by someone else. In that case I couldn't blame RCI too much, since the problem was that they'd accepted a future week in good faith, and the depositor flaked out.
> 
> Dave





BevL said:


> Yep, had the same situation a few years back when the resort decided to change their maintenance schedule - not RCI's fault - and I confirmed with the resort that's what happened.
> 
> In our case, they were able to get our daughter into the same resort but she had to move her checkin date back a day.  Since it was a drive to destination, that wasn't a major issue.
> 
> I didn't push for any compensation since it was a minor inconvenience.  But again, it really was circumstances outside RCI's control.



I can understand this situation but, why is it we always read about these things with RCI and so rarely, if ever, with any of the other exchange companies?

We own 7 timeshares. 4 of the 7 require advanced payment of MF's before they'll release a unit for exchange. IMHO, while this can be problematic for owners, it's good practice. Interestingly enough, the remaining three are with two companies, Marriott and Hilton. Neither Marriott nor Hilton require advance payment of MF to deposit and exchange. I don't believe I've ever read of a problem with an exchange into either Marriott or Hilton where the exchange was refused because the owner of a week had not paid their MF's. I'm assuming there is some sort of deal in place where these two will honor all reservations to keep the company name in good standing.


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## Carolinian (May 9, 2011)

As to paying maintenance fees and work schedules, when an exchange company verifies a deposit with a resort and the resort confirms it, the resort should be on the hook.  The resort can, and most resorts do, protect itself from non-payment of m/f's by requiring that the member pay the m/f before the resort confirms the deposit to the exchange company.  If a resort is negligent in doing so, it should simply not be allowed to yank away a deposit it has previously confirmed.  When I was on the HOA BOD of one of my resorts, we would never have confirmed a deposit to any exchange company unless the m/f was paid.

If I was in this situation with RCI, I would have first asked them if the resort had confirmed the deposit, and then why they were allowing the resort to backtrack on that confirmation.

Some of the independent exchange companies in their terms also require that the m/f be paid before a deposit is accepted, so for them, even if a resort is negligent on such matters, the exchange company's own rules keep this from happening.  For whatever reason, RCI chooses not to do that, so a combination of lax rules with members and not holding the resort's feet to the fire on its confirmation of a deposit are likely why RCI has this problem more than others.


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## DaveNV (May 9, 2011)

Carolinian said:


> The resort can, and most resorts do, protect itself from non-payment of m/f's by requiring that the member pay the m/f before the resort confirms the deposit to the exchange company.




I agree that that is how it _should _be done.  But apparently it's not how it often _is _done.  The timeshares I own, and the ones I've previously owned, have all required m/f to be paid ahead if a future week was to be deposited to an exchange company.  Current-year weeks were only deposited after the m/f's had been paid.  

One of my resorts will let me reserve my week next year at the resort without prepaying next year's m/f, but obviously, if I don't pay the m/f next year, they'll cancel my reservation.  So the onus is on me at that point.

To answer your comment about non-RCI exchange companies not generally having this issue, it could be because those companies confirm the week details with the resort before accepting the exchange deposit.  RCI isn't nearly as well run, if we are to believe the stories they tell users for why exchanges are not available.  Yet if it was all lies, then I'd question what their point is, if they turn around and replace the exchange shortly thereafter, as in my case.  I'm inclined to lay it at the feet of incompetence (or should that be "incompetents?") rather than believe there are that many flaky owners.   

Dave


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## beejaybeeohio (May 9, 2011)

*Did happen w/ DAE*

DAE banked my deposit, sent me an email confirming the resort, week and year.

DAE called me the nite before this year's week was to begin to ask if I double deposited it w/ DAE & RCI.  Luckily, I had the email from them that specified my deposit was for 2012.

I sure hope that DAE made it right for the exchanger that booked the week DAE deposited in error....


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## dougp26364 (May 9, 2011)

BMWguynw said:


> I agree that that is how it _should _be done.  But apparently it's not how it often _is _done.  The timeshares I own, and the ones I've previously owned, have all required m/f to be paid ahead if a future week was to be deposited to an exchange company.  Current-year weeks were only deposited after the m/f's had been paid.
> 
> One of my resorts will let me reserve my week next year at the resort without prepaying next year's m/f, but obviously, if I don't pay the m/f next year, they'll cancel my reservation.  So the onus is on me at that point.
> 
> ...



I don't know Dave, I've run into a LOT of flaky owners over the years. At first I use to be amazed at how many people barely understood how to make a reservation at their home resort, let alone try to manage an exchange. 

Still, I see this complaint about RCI all to often on TUG forums. You'd think that flaky owners would cover all exchange companies, not just be attracted to RCI. Granted RCI is considerably larger than all others but, the ratio seem out of proportion. It's enough to scare me off using RCI as a reliable exchange company. We make reservations a year in advance, research the resorts we want to exchange into, buy airline tickets ect..... 

The one thing we've never really worried about with timeshare exchanges has been trip insurance. We own to much as it is. If we have to cancel a trip, it's not as if we're going to reschedule it. Plus, since 1998 we've never had an issue with an exchange being canceled at the last minute. With RCI I'm afraid I'd have to add the expense of cancelation insurance to the cost of vacationing. Then there's the fear that RCI would see that and pick on us more often. Plus, if they offer what they consider a like-for-like replacement, would the insurance company even pay the claim? 

RCI injects to many uncertainties into a timeshare exchange vacation for me to feel comfortable using them. Lately, we've been feeling more secure in the mini-systems we belong too. At least with mini-systems, there's ONE company to deal to call. No excuse that it was the other guys fault.


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## colamedia (May 10, 2011)

It's not just RCI, I had a similar thing happen with II, more lead time on the cancellation (5 weeks), but there were already booked international flights that couldn't be changed. 
At that time, I was told by people on here it was unlikely to be II's fault and I just had to put up with it and shouldn't expect anything as compensation. 
In my case, it all worked out OK in the end, ended up with a better resort after a few stressful days of trying to find an alternative without having to change international airfares.


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## tombo (May 10, 2011)

dougp26364 said:


> I don't know Dave, I've run into a LOT of flaky owners over the years. At first I use to be amazed at how many people barely understood how to make a reservation at their home resort, let alone try to manage an exchange.
> 
> Still, I see this complaint about RCI all to often on TUG forums. You'd think that flaky owners would cover all exchange companies, not just be attracted to RCI. Granted RCI is considerably larger than all others but, the ratio seem out of proportion. It's enough to scare me off using RCI as a reliable exchange company. We make reservations a year in advance, research the resorts we want to exchange into, buy airline tickets ect.....
> 
> ...



You posted 3 or 4 times in this thread that you constantly read this about RCI. Hasit ever happened to you? To anyone you know personally? With 1.4 million members and 741,000 exchanges in 2009 alone, I rarelly read about this happening, and when I do there are a handfull of people that share their personal stories of this happening to them, not hordes of exchangers relating their similar events. Search the archives and see the last time someone else posted on TUG that this happened to them. 

Having a confirmed exchanged cancelled for ANY REASON is unacceptable. It should NEVER happen. I would raise cain and get a superviser immediatelly if it happened to me, but to not use RCI because 4 people on TUG said it happened to them over the last 5 years or so is kind of throwing the baby out with the bath isn't it? How about looking at the fact that it HASN"T happened to the far majority of exchangers EVER? How many people here have made hundreds of exchanges with RCI over decades without ever having a problem? If you will not participate in any program that is not perfect, then you can't exchange with anyone. Companies and people do make mistakes on occassion.

One person on this thread said it happened with their deposit with DAE. One post about a DAE mistake  is a lot higher percentage of mess ups comparing the volume of DAE and RCI. Right now DAE only has 178 weeks for exchange in the entire US for 2011 and 2012. RCI has over 68000. Percentage wise one mess up with DAE is much worse. Do you now rule out DAE?

Interval International has their problems too. Just read the post above mine or read through these threads.
http://www.complaintsboard.com/bycompany/interval-international-a31778.html

Under the SFX exchanges current thread here on TUG, 2 of 8 posters are not happy with SFX. One said they eventually got the exchanges they want after long periods of time and a lot of work, and the other has yet to receive an exchange they want. I guess one has to rule out SFX as an exchange company too. Who wants to use an exchange company where you can't get the exchange you want? You constantly seem to read those posts about SFX too.

The Better Business Bureau gives this caveat to complaints about businesses:
"When considering complaint information, please take into account the company's size and volume of transactions, and understand that the nature of complaints and a firm's responses to them are often more important than the number of complaints."

Out of the 4 people who say that it has happened to them on this thread, all have had RCI work with them to rectify the situation. Some ended up with the week/resort they originally had, some had their week/points restored to their account, some got another resort. Not all were happy with what RCI did for them, but RCI did try to work with each of them to make a bad situation better. I am not excusing their mistakes, but using the BBB criteria of number of complaints compared to the volume of transactions and the firm's responses to complaints, I can't see how one can say to never use RCI. If one uses the same criteria of not exchanging with any company that has posts by people upset about the company's exchanges, then I guess exchanging with any company is out.

I would not rule out II, SFX, DAE, or RCI because of an occassional post about the company not doing what they should every single time. I will read each post to get a feel for what happened and how the company tried to make it right. Constant screw ups, poor response to the customers, and lack of  action by the company to make it right would make me stop using them, not an occassional mistake. 

I also will not stop eating at a restaurant when the far majority of people had great meals and great experiences, but where a few posted about their meals which were not good. I won't turn down an exchange to a resort where most travellers rated it highly on TUG, RCI, Trip Adviser ,etc, but a few posted about problems. If a few posts about mistakes makes a company unacceptable, don't read about resorts or restaurants on Trip Adviser because every location/resort/restaurant  has a few people posting who did not have a good experience. I try to be like gymnastics judges and throw out the highs and lows to get a better average. Heck if you read the negative posts on Trip Adviser TUG, etc, about your own resorts, you might not want to stay there anymore.    JMHO.


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## bnoble (May 10, 2011)

It seems like there are a few factors at work.

One: RCI just does more volume.  With more volume, there will be more screw-ups, even if they screw up no more often than anyone else.

Two: RCI has in the past been known to let members withdraw deposited units after the fact.  We used to read about this here from time to time---some TUGger deposits, gets a poor trade power valuation, complains, and eventually gets their unit back, even though someone traded into it.  The TUGger is really happy that "RCI did the right thing."  But, someone else had a confirmed exchange cancelled on them at the same time, so maybe not so "right".  IMO, if deposit is to be a final transaction, then it should be final.  Hopefully, the new transparency rules will reduce this.

Three: in many cases, deposit confirmation seems to be a manual process.  Each resort has its own system, and it seems like at least two different people handle each one---someone at the resort, and someone at RCI.  It's not surprising that sometimes some things fall through the cracks---not checking that fees are current, getting the check-in date wrong, what have you. That's not acceptable, and it shouldn't happen, but people do make mistakes.

Four: sometimes, things go wrong that aren't the fault of RCI, the owner of the deposited week, or even the resort---if a unit has to be taken out of service for some unforeseen reason, then it has to be taken out of service.  That's not always predictable, and there really is nothing you can do.

In the past folks have reported that RCI was very helpful in making things right when something like this happens---the "supervisor" assigned to the case generally tries to make the exchanger happy.  And, that's as it should be---even when it isn't RCI's fault.  It's unfortunate that the OP didn't really get a comparable unit, and it's possible that one just didn't exist, but if anyone finds themselves in this position, don't be shy about saying "that's not acceptable" if they give you an alternative that isn't up to snuff.  Sometimes they can pull a rabbit out of a hat.

Finally, this has happened to me, but with a very happy outcome.  I had exchanged into a 2BR at Powhatan.  About a month later, RCI calls me, and leaves a message on my answering machine that there was a problem with my exchange, with the name and direct number of the supervisor assigned to my case.  Fearing the worst, I called back, only to have the supervisor tell me that the owner made a mistake, and didn't want to deposit his lockoff as two 2BRs, but as one 4BR.   So, she asked me if I was willing to accept the 4BR instead of a 2BR.

Um yeah, I *suppose* so, if I have to.   We had a nice week and were able to invite some friends along whom we had not seen in years.  For a variety of reasons, they had not taken a vacation in quite some time, so it was a wonderful opportunity for us to give them that gift.


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## Carolinian (May 10, 2011)

Well, no surprise, Tombo, to see you highly supportive of RCI no matter what the issue.

It appears to me that RCI has a problem of letting resorts off the hook for their confirmation of deposits, more so than other exchange companies.  Fault may indeed vary from case to case, but exchange companies like RCI should expect resorts to honor their confirmations of deposits.




tombo said:


> You posted 3 or 4 times in this thread that you constantly read this about RCI. Hasit ever happened to you? To anyone you know personally? With 1.4 million members and 741,000 exchanges in 2009 alone, I rarelly read about this happening, and when I do there are a handfull of people that share their personal stories of this happening to them, not hordes of exchangers relating their similar events. Search the archives and see the last time someone else posted on TUG that this happened to them.
> 
> Having a confirmed exchanged cancelled for ANY REASON is unacceptable. It should NEVER happen. I would raise cain and get a superviser immediatelly if it happened to me, but to not use RCI because 4 people on TUG said it happened to them over the last 5 years or so is kind of throwing the baby out with the bath isn't it? How about looking at the fact that it HASN"T happened to the far majority of exchangers EVER? How many people here have made hundreds of exchanges with RCI over decades without ever having a problem? If you will not participate in any program that is not perfect, then you can't exchange with anyone. Companies and people do make mistakes on occassion.
> 
> ...


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## dougp26364 (May 10, 2011)

The ratio of complaints about last minute cancelations between RCI and all others heavily favors RCI as the exchange company not to rely on. While I.I. might be a little more than half the size of RCI, you just don't read about dissatisfied members as much. There's a lot more drama with RCI when it comes to exchanging. Either in terms of varying trade power, excessive rentals available but no exchanges available, mysteriously disappearing reservations or any other of a number of issues.


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## tombo (May 10, 2011)

dougp26364 said:


> The ratio of complaints about last minute cancelations between RCI and all others heavily favors RCI as the exchange company not to rely on. While I.I. might be a little more than half the size of RCI, you just don't read about dissatisfied members as much. There's a lot more drama with RCI when it comes to exchanging. Either in terms of varying trade power, excessive rentals available but no exchanges available, mysteriously disappearing reservations or any other of a number of issues.



Where do you get these facts and figures? I have not seen a ratio of complaints to exchanges listed anywhere. Please reference this data base for all to peruse.

ON RARE OCCASSIONS someone posts that they had an exchange cancelled or changed by RCI, II, SFX, DAE, etc. Please reference posts on TUG where this happens often from any exchange company and also the threads where it has happened to frequent numbers of exchangers. Simply hit search and find the number of threads and number of TUGGERS who have had this happen to them in the last 2 years for example. Something this pervasive has to be posted about monthly if not weekly. Heck weekly someone posts about crime in Mexico starting that debate. Almost daily someone posts about a developer or web site ripping someone off when they sold them a timeshare. Surelly these 10,000's of exchangers who had their confirmed exchange taken fromthem will make a post about it. I just can't seem to find but a few here and there. I pass the baton to one who has researched it so much better to show us the facts and figures and where we can all read them. Thanks for researching it for all of us and showing us RCI's frequent and blatant disregard for it's members.


Yes I like RCI overall, but I have had my complaints with RCI in the past and recently. I have never had an exchange not honored when I arrived or cancelled before my trip. It can happen, but knock on wood so far it has not happened to me. 

On the other hand I had a major problem with adding Platinum to my accounts a couple of weeks ago and I went through MANY  supervisers on the phone and I sent several rude e-mails before they corrected a problem they screwed up on my accounts. I was fit to be tied and threatened to quit RCI. They showed me and cancelled my accounts!!!! I really blew up then sending e-mails and calling asking to have my Points, my TPU's, and my confirmed exchanges returned to me. I had 4 upcoming confirmed exchanges cancelled when they cancelled my accounts, almost 80,000 points lost, and over 80 TPU's gone. They said you cancelled your account. I said no I said I ought to cancel it, but I never said cancel it. It was finally restored but if you could talk to any of the supervisers i dealt with i doubt you could find one who would call me an RCI suppoerter or fan. However to be honest I didn't know how much I relied on them for exchanges and to manage my weeks  until they cancelled my accounts.


The reason I did not simply ignore this thread so as to not give Carolinian a chance to say here goes the  RCI fan again is because in several posts you state that RCI does this often,and much more often than other exchange companies. You also say way to go to a poster who said they quit RCI which makes you appear less than objective. I am not denying that the cancellation of confirmed exchanges happens, I am not defending it in any way, but I have seen no evidence that any exchange company cancels confirmed exchanges on anything other than a rare basis, and I have seen ZERO evidence that RCI does it more than other exchange companies (especially when you factor in the total number of exchanges they do annually). I am still waiting on the web site location with the ratio of complaints to exchanges regarding RCI is located.Until I have read that data I must remain skeptical if not in downright denial. Please feel free to provide data that proves you are correct.


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## cruisin (May 10, 2011)

At resorts I own, once the week is turned over to RCI, Thats it! The resort has transferred the right to use that week to RCI, its theirs period. This is totally unacceptable, if a resort has maintenence, they should schedule around it, that week is not theirs to cancel, unless it is a natural disaster.


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## dougp26364 (May 11, 2011)

tombo said:


> Where do you get these facts and figures? I have not seen a ratio of complaints to exchanges listed anywhere. Please reference this data base for all to peruse.
> 
> ON RARE OCCASSIONS someone posts that they had an exchange cancelled or changed by RCI, II, SFX, DAE, etc. Please reference posts on TUG where this happens often from any exchange company and also the threads where it has happened to frequent numbers of exchangers. Simply hit search and find the number of threads and number of TUGGERS who have had this happen to them in the last 2 years for example. Something this pervasive has to be posted about monthly if not weekly. Heck weekly someone posts about crime in Mexico starting that debate. Almost daily someone posts about a developer or web site ripping someone off when they sold them a timeshare. Surelly these 10,000's of exchangers who had their confirmed exchange taken fromthem will make a post about it. I just can't seem to find but a few here and there. I pass the baton to one who has researched it so much better to show us the facts and figures and where we can all read them. Thanks for researching it for all of us and showing us RCI's frequent and blatant disregard for it's members.
> 
> ...



I suppose if I really wanted to put the effort into it, I could run through all the past threads and make a count. The problem is that's a couple of hours of my time I'll never get back and for what? Just to prove to a couple of posters that RCI has far more complaints than any of the other exchange companies. While it might be a "rare" occasion, that "rare" occasion happens considerably more frequently with RCI. 

I don't have to do an actual count. All I have to do is be a participant on these forums to know that, every summer, there will be several "RCI canceled my exchange" threads. It's almost how I know it's really summer.

To be honest, it's getting so I'm no big fan of I.I. either. I see RCI style changes slowly taking place with Interval and, I've been migrating my ownerships into mini-systems where I feel there's still some exchange value. But, RCI takes the cake IMHO right now.


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## dougp26364 (May 11, 2011)

OK, so I had some free time. I put in two searches. Once for the word cancel and one for the word switch. It wouldn't surprise me if there are threads with other key words in them about the same topic. The final thread in this list was a thread asking if RCI had ever canceled an exchange, so that one thread might cover more ground than all the others. 

Like I said in my post before, it might be a rare occasion but, that rare occassion seems to happen with great frequency with RCI. Why do I say this? I didn't see threads about I.I. canceling confirmed exchanges. 

http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=125582&highlight=cancel
http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=109657&highlight=cancel
http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=109657&highlight=cancel
http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=85426&highlight=cancel
http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=110353&highlight=switch
http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=66719&highlight=switch
http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=42427&highlight=switch

I think what I'd like to see is a poll with very simple questions. Has (insert exchange companies name) ever cancelled a confirmed exchange? 

It would be interesting to see how the various companies stack up. Even though I feel I see RCI's name pop up with more frequency, it could be that I either miss the others or, the others cancel reservations but, complaints don't get posted. I took a quick look but don't see how to post a poll. I'm sure it's easy enough but, I haven't attempted to post polls very often in forums.


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## vckempson (May 11, 2011)

I second the motion for a poll.  I' be interested in the seeing the resutls of that, as well.


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## tombo (May 11, 2011)

dougp26364 said:


> OK, so I had some free time. I put in two searches. Once for the word cancel and one for the word switch. It wouldn't surprise me if there are threads with other key words in them about the same topic. The final thread in this list was a thread asking if RCI had ever canceled an exchange, so that one thread might cover more ground than all the others.
> 
> Like I said in my post before, it might be a rare occasion but, that rare occassion seems to happen with great frequency with RCI. Why do I say this? I didn't see threads about I.I. canceling confirmed exchanges.
> 
> ...



See facts beat jumping on the "I hate RCI bandwagon"every time someone has something bad to say about RCI. Lets look at the threads you found from people talking about this happening to them over the last 5 or more years.

1.The firstpost had zero cancelled confirmed exchanges, only a cancelled ongoing search.

2.The second and 3rd threads from 2009 are from the same person who said they had it happen to them because the resort disaffiliated from RCI (something Carolinian wants all resorts to do).

3.The 4th thread from 2009 has one person who had an extra vacation they purchased swapped to another resort near by. They could have cancelled and gotten their money back but did not. It was not a cancelled or swapped  confirmed exchange.

4. The 5th thread from 2009 is from a poster who received the weeks/location they reserved at Ocean Walk but had the type of room they said they reserved changed. They said they had reserved for example one bed units with balconies and it was changed to one bed room with no balconies. They also said one unit was supposed tobe a 2 bed sleeps 10 but they got a 2 bed sleeps 8 missing a sleeper sofa. Unit types or views never have been guaranteed with RCI. In fact many resorts give owners the best views/unitsas resort policy leaving the worst for exchangers. For the guaranteed perk of best views/locations you need to own at the resort in many cases or rent from an owner who is guaranteed unit/view.

5. The 6th thread IS FROM 2008 (3 years ago) and the poster had a resort cancelled on SXM but received another 2 bed unit at a resort they themselves say they like better for the same dates.

6. The last post was from 2007 (looks like you had to go 4 years back to find posts). The OP said it happened to them once in 2006! They asked for a poll of how many ther TUGGERS had it happen to them. 10 people responded that they had ever had it happen to them,and all had RCI make it right to them with an alternative resort and/or some other incentives.

As I said before I know that it does happen on occassion and it should never happen. However in almost every case the cancellation was handled between RCI and the member in a fashion that was aceptable to the member in the end. To search for a 4 year period for threads asking about this happening to RCI members with less than 20 people (including the current thread) saying that situation EVER happened to them out of 1000's of TUG exchanges is not a huge problem, not something that happens often, or something that would be a reason to quit RCI unless you are the rare person who had it happen to you without RCI making it right. 

By all means people should post when/if it happens to them to get advice from others and to let RCI know that a critical malfunction like a cancelled confirmed reservation is unacceptable and will be posted and discussed on the web giving them bad publicity. However to have everyone jump up and say RCI does it ALL THE TIME and MORE THAN OTHER EXCHANGE COMPANIES without really looking at the situation is not giving the correct information to people who might read the threads and really think it is something that they really need to worry about. IT IS FROM ALL EVIDENCE ON TUG A VERY RARE THING!!

Let's do another poll like they did in 2007. Last time 10 people on TUG responded that they ever had it happen to them. Let's see how many respond now, how many felt that RCI handled the situation to their satisfaction, and how many felt that RCI did not. There are few who exchange more than TUGGERS, and even among TUGGERS a post about this happening is VERY RARE as I expected. Let the poll begin.


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## tombo (May 11, 2011)

PS.  As I read through these I had to re-post one of Carolinians posts from March 2007:
http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=42427&highlight=switch
Carolinian:
"I have only had that happen once, some years ago, on a European exchange, about 2 months from check-in. They called me, gave me a substitute week, which because of the inconvenience from where I was flying into, they gave me the week free and gave my deposit and exchange fee back. I thought they handled it well, and the problem in that case was related to the resort, not one caused by RCI. "

Back in the mid 2000's Carolinian had a confirmed exchange cancelled, he acknowledged that it was the resort's fault (not RCI's), yet he was happy because RCI did more than they had to in order to make a situation right that they didn't cause right. 

What a difference 4 years make. One can only assume today the same situation would be followed by a post blaming RCI for the mistake, accusing RCI of doing it constantly, blaming the cancellation on RCI's mistreatment of European resorts, omit or diminish RCI's efforts to make it right (even though it was not their fault), blame it on oversupply in Orlando, blame it on points lite allowing Orlando owners to take his confirmed exchange, assure all that RCI had taken his confirmed exchange and rented it to someone else, show the theft of his confirmed exchange as proof of the huge demand in Europe and limited supply, and of course be followed by the rally cry to quit RCI and never deposit or exchange with them again. 

Times they are a changin......


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## Laurie (May 11, 2011)

tombo said:


> 2.The second and 3rd threads from 2009 are from the same person who said they had it happen to them because the resort disaffiliated from RCI (something Carolinian wants all resorts to do).


This would be me. They did cancel those 2 confirmations because the resort actually closed, which they didn't tell me at the time.  My level of frustration was higher than normal, because I'd already had 2 European cancellations - for no acceptable reason. 

The first was "the person who deposited the week took it back." Huh, they allow that in RCI-Europe??  Here in the US, a banking is a one-way street, especially if someone has taken your deposit.

In the above case, it was a resort high on my list, and in fact had cancelled an earlier confirmation for same week to rearrange my itinerary. I had to eat the extra expense to myself for that.

The second was "the resort changed their schedule." Huh? This wasn't really a believable explanation, especially because shortly thereafter, a week for the exact same dates as my cancelled one matched to a fellow TUGger's ongoing search. It was just sitting there on computer hold in her account, and she didn't want it. But she notified me. That contradicted what I had been told: that a "specialist" would be scanning thru all incoming deposits for my replacement, before they were offered to any other RCI member. Clearly a lie.

Then, even tho she hadn't confirmed it, to get RCI to release it from her account and give it to me required jumping thru all sorts of hoops, involving written permission from this fellow TUGger and her husband. Huh??

So this sudden cancellation of yet 2 more European confirmations had my ire up. They were little help at finding alternatives, other than to lesser resorts in different regions of the same country. I saw something in their rental inventory, that was acceptable which I was requested - nope, they wouldn't do that, but I could PAY THEM FOR THE RENTAL (even tho they'd taken my deposits and rented them out).  I finally got one acceptable exchange replacement (different region and country in fact), but not the second - so I found my own rental which I paid for out-of-pocket.

Since those 4 mentioned above, I had a 5th incidence - on the same trip as the above 2 consecutive cancellations. In this last case, it was a valid reason - the resort had flooded months earlier and hadn't gotten around to repairs yet - but do you think RCI could even keep on top of this and notify me?  Nope. I stumbled into finding this out on my own, and only after many calls to both resort (who said they had notified RCI months prior) and RCI, could I even RCI them to acknowledge this.  I ended up going out of pocket for my replacement here too - what they offered in replacement was many miles away, even tho the same country - even tho again, RCI told me I could PAY for a rental in the same location as my cancellation.

I love many of the exchanges I do get from RCI, and use them exclusively. But they are the *pits* at the way they deal with these situations. Their policies are IMO unconscionable. 

They should use your original deposit (which they might be renting out for income anyway) to pay for an equivalent rental if they can't get you an equivalent exchange, period.


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## dougp26364 (May 11, 2011)

tombo said:


> PS.  As I read through these I had to re-post one of Carolinians posts from March 2007:
> http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=42427&highlight=switch
> Carolinian:
> "I have only had that happen once, some years ago, on a European exchange, about 2 months from check-in. They called me, gave me a substitute week, which because of the inconvenience from where I was flying into, they gave me the week free and gave my deposit and exchange fee back. I thought they handled it well, and the problem in that case was related to the resort, not one caused by RCI. "
> ...



I posted a poll @ TS4M's since I didn't have the option here. So far, RCI is winning 3 to none but, the poll has only been up a couple of hours. 

Like I said, searching through all the threads is time consuming and I'm not going to do it just to satisfy one or two posters. I think a poll would give us a more definitive idea rather than just our opinions. Since there is more activity on TUG, it would be nice to see a poll here as well.

I really don't care who's fault a cancellation might be. A cancelation can wreck havoc on a planned vacation. If it happens more frequently with one exchange company over the others, then there's a problem with that exchange company. IMHO, the buck stops at the exchange company. They're the one who is responsible for confirming a deposit. They're also the one responsible for allowing a confirmed deposit to be taken back after the fact. They're also the one who's responsible for enforcing any agreement with member resorts. If there are member resorts who are allowed to cancel deposits, the exchange company is at the top of the hill and should be enforcing rules or some code of ethics on member resorts or, disassociate those resorts who continually created situations where cancelations exist. It's bad business to ruin vacations when you're in the vacation business.


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## Laurie (May 11, 2011)

dougp26364 said:


> I really don't care who's fault a cancellation might be. A cancelation can wreck havoc on a planned vacation ... IMHO, the buck stops at the exchange company. They're the one who is responsible for confirming a deposit.  ... It's bad business to ruin vacations when you're in the vacation business.


I agree with this! 

Can you imagine buying an airline ticket, getting to the airport to find out your flight's been cancelled for any reason (or maybe a letter, a week or 2 prior), and having the airline only offer you the choice of a ticket to somewhere else, or your money back?

After thousands of customer hours which may have gone into the planning of a vacation to a specific location, and other expenses often incurred by the customer - and given that RCI rents our deposits and has access to all sorts of other rental inventory already - their lack of customer service in these scenarios is appalling.


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## bnoble (May 11, 2011)

> I think a poll would give us a more definitive idea rather than just our opinions.


Except that your poll doesn't quite tell us what we want to know.  The interesting questions are (a) what's the *rate* at which exchanges are cancelled (to account for volume) and (b) how often does the exchange company make good on it vs. how often they do not?  That tells you a lot more about whether or not to use a particular exchange company.


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## Carolinian (May 11, 2011)

Well, as usual, your assumptions would be wrong, Tombo.

Unlike your constant brownnosing of RCI, I have always called it like I saw it with them.  Where they deserved credit, I have had no problem giving it to them.  Where their misdeeds deserve to be exposed, as on their rentals to the general public and the unfair relationship between Points and Weeks, both of which I have been critical of them on long before 2007, I have no problem calling them out on it.  I am not inherently pro or anti RCI, just pro-timeshare owner and pro-HOA.

Thank you for pointing out that I treat each aspect of RCI on a rational basis, quite the contrast with your own emotional attachment to them.



tombo said:


> PS.  As I read through these I had to re-post one of Carolinians posts from March 2007:
> http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=42427&highlight=switch
> Carolinian:
> "I have only had that happen once, some years ago, on a European exchange, about 2 months from check-in. They called me, gave me a substitute week, which because of the inconvenience from where I was flying into, they gave me the week free and gave my deposit and exchange fee back. I thought they handled it well, and the problem in that case was related to the resort, not one caused by RCI. "
> ...


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## tombo (May 11, 2011)

Carolinian said:


> Well, as usual, your assumptions would be wrong, Tombo.
> 
> Unlike your constant brownnosing of RCI, I have always called it like I saw it with them.  Where they deserved credit, I have had no problem giving it to them.  Where their misdeeds deserve to be exposed, as on their rentals to the general public and the unfair relationship between Points and Weeks, both of which I have been critical of them on long before 2007, I have no problem calling them out on it.  I am not inherently pro or anti RCI, just pro-timeshare owner and pro-HOA.
> 
> Thank you for pointing out that I treat each aspect of RCI on a rational basis, quite the contrast with your own emotional attachment to them.



Good spin. 

The fact is that in the past the majority of your RCI posts were neutral to possibly pro-RCI. Sometimes a negative post about RCI from you years ago, and often a positive. 

You have not posted anything positive about RCI in months (if not years) other than you like to use their cheap rentals. Feel free to reference pro RCI posts in recent months. I doubt you will find a single one. I sure don't recall reading one.


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## Carolinian (May 11, 2011)

tombo said:


> Good spin.
> 
> The fact is that in the past the majority of your RCI posts were neutral to possibly pro-RCI. Sometimes a negative post about RCI from you years ago, and often a positive.
> 
> You have not posted anything positive about RCI in months (if not years) other than you like to use their cheap rentals. Feel free to reference pro RCI posts in recent months. I doubt you will find a single one. I sure don't recall reading one.



Funny thing about that.  You yourself have posted quite recently that I have posted that RCI's cheap rentals are a good deal.  That is certainly a positive comment on them!  With what they have done with Points Lite, there is really not much positive out there to say these days.  Until that came along, I disagreed with those who said cancel your membership and get a refund.  My position was that while I was not optimistic, I thought it was worth holding on at least until one's existing membership ran out to see if things got better.  I also tended to give them one week at a time on deposit, usually a high demand summer UK week that would vanish to an ongoing search (or to their rental pool) as soon as it was deposited.  Since my trust level in them was low given their rentals, I always limited it to one week at a time.  When I heard that Points Lite was coming, I found an exchange for that one and zeroed out my deposits.  And when one supposed insider posted that Points Lite would include trading in a range and the number we would be shown was the top of the range we were in, I actually posted that if they did that it might not be so bad after all.  Of course, the other supposed insider who said it would an exact number system turned out to be right.

And I have made a number of neutral posts on RCI on several timeshare sites, listing both good and bad or simply information, such as this one:  http://www.timeshareforums.com/forums/rci/112155-rci-weeks-points-lite-plusses-minuses-2.html

I really have no inherent like or dislike of RCI itself, but I disagree strenuously with a number of their policies since Cendant / Wyndham have taken over because those policies are bad for timesharing.


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## tombo (May 11, 2011)

Laurie said:


> I agree with this!
> 
> Can you imagine buying an airline ticket, getting to the airport to find out your flight's been cancelled for any reason (or maybe a letter, a week or 2 prior), and having the airline only offer you the choice of a ticket to somewhere else, or your money back?
> 
> After thousands of customer hours which may have gone into the planning of a vacation to a specific location, and other expenses often incurred by the customer - and given that RCI rents our deposits and has access to all sorts of other rental inventory already - their lack of customer service in these scenarios is appalling.



I have had more than one flight cancelled due to weather. I received zero compensation. My choices were to take the next available flight or get a refund. I could pay for a motel room myself, sleep in the airport, or go home if it was my first leg. The cancellation was beyond their control. 

2 of your cancellations were because the resort closed. That is beyond RCI's control. They offered you resorts that were unacceptable to you. What else could they do? They can't make the resort re-open. It is very bad that it happened to you and I hope it will never happen to anyone again,but if a resort closes or tells RCI that they no longer have a room available after RCI confirmed an exchange, what else can they do other than offer you a refund or similar accomodations in the same area?

I have had flights cancelled for reasons other than weather where they gave me a cheap motel room and a small meal allowance since they could not get me out until the next day. They did not pay for me a first class ticket on another airline to get me to my destination on time. They did not pay me for my motel room I had reserved which could not be cancelled. They did not give me my money back plus my flight free the next day. Under the new laws what I receive might be different, but before the government legislated change you received whatever they felt like giving you.

I recently had an airline flight changed. I received an e-mail telling me of my new flight times and new flight number. No options, no compensation. 

Airlines might not be the best example.


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## Margariet (May 11, 2011)

tombo said:


> I have had more than one flight cancelled due to weather. I received zero compensation. My choices were to take the next available flight or get a refund. I could pay for a motel room myself, sleep in the airport, or go home if it was my first leg. The cancellation was beyond their control.
> 
> 2 of your cancellations were because the resort closed. That is beyond RCI's control. They offered you resorts that were unacceptable to you. What could they do, make the resort re-open? It is very bad that it happened to you and I hope it will never happen to anyone again,but if the resort closes or tells RCI that they no longer have a room available, what else can they do?
> 
> ...



Totally agree! Wanted to respond but your American is better than mine. Don't start about airlines! There are many forums filled with complaints about their customer service. What airlines can do to you is uncomparable: cancellations, no refunds, waiting times, no food, no drinks, changing of destination airports, and no transport to your original destination, changing of fligh times, yes, overbooked, and loosing your luggage ...  And back to the topic: never had my RCI booking cancelled by RCI. I don't understand why RCI would cancel, that must have been the resort.


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## dougp26364 (May 11, 2011)

bnoble said:


> Except that your poll doesn't quite tell us what we want to know.  The interesting questions are (a) what's the *rate* at which exchanges are cancelled (to account for volume) and (b) how often does the exchange company make good on it vs. how often they do not?  That tells you a lot more about whether or not to use a particular exchange company.



It tells me what I need to know. That being which exchange company is most likely to cancel my reservation. Even if they make good on it, they're NOT reliable when you don't know what resort you're staying at, what size unit you'll get or even what your check in day will be. 

I don't want a company that has to make good on their screw up. Especially if it happens more than once. I want the exchange company to get it right the first time. This should be a no brainer. The exchange company confirms the deposit, they take custody of the deposited unit with respect to ability to use that unit and, they confirm and exchange reservation into that unit. Seems pretty darn simple to me.


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## bnoble (May 11, 2011)

Answer copied from OY:


> I get that. But, for argument's sake, let's suppose that RCI confirms ten times as many exchanges as any other (probably true for all except II). If they had five cancellations, that's about the same rate as zero for anyone else.
> 
> The fact that it happens is not the question---it could happen with any exchange company, because they don't directly control the inventory, though they do make their best efforts to verify that occupancy will be possible. Instead, the question for me is how *likely* is it to happen, and how hard they work to make things right when it does.
> 
> Going back to my specific case: technically I have had an exchange cancelled. I booked a 2BR for those dates, and didn't get it. But, instead I had a 4BR for those dates. Should I be unhappy? Probably not.


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## Laurie (May 11, 2011)

tombo said:


> My choices were to take the next available flight or get a refund.


OK, maybe not the best example - but the airlines' policy (as far as I know, and always my experience) is to get you rebooked as fast as possible to the same destination for which you purchased a ticket - not just offer you a choice between refund or a ticket to somewhere else in the country, as if that's just as good!


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## GKK (May 11, 2011)

Letter went out to RCI today....we will see how they respond. I told them I
did not want another vacation. I would appreciate my exchange fee back, 
( they would still get to keep the extra $69 I spent to extend my week to get this resort) or extend my RCI fee.
GKK


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## tombo (May 11, 2011)

Laurie said:


> OK, maybe not the best example - but the airlines' policy (as far as I know, and always my experience) is to get you rebooked as fast as possible to the same destination for which you purchased a ticket - not just offer you a choice between refund or a ticket to somewhere else in the country, as if that's just as good!



The difference s that the airline ALWAYS has more seats to the same destination, maybe not on this flight, but on the next or the next, or the next. If RCI has you booked at a resort that has shut, they can not access the same resort so their only choice is to book you at the nearest location where they have availability. Even if the resort is still open and for some reason they tell RCI that the week they had promised is no longer available, and if RCI doesn't have an alternative week at the same resort to give you, unlike the airline they don't own the inventory and can't create a week to give you. The airline can simply book you on the next available flight to that location, and they probably have several flights to that location daily, many which have empty seats.

RCI only can assign weeks to it's members that other members or resorts give to them. They don't actually own or control any weeks. RCI has to take the resort at their word when they confirm a deposit with the resort. If the resort makes a mistake, RCI can not take a week from an owner at that resort to make up for it.

The airline owns the planes, books the seats, charges you what you paid for your flight, makes 100% of the profit on what you paid, and so they can assure you a flight to your exact destination in the near future.


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## dougp26364 (May 11, 2011)

I don't hold cancelations due to natural disasters or resorts closing in the same regard to an exchange comany cancelling and exchange because they or the resort made a mistake. Allowing owners to cancel a deposit when it's already been confirmed as an exchange is poor business practice. Allowing a resort to cancel deposits because they couldn't look at their renovation  schedule is unacceptable. 

Right now, RCI appears to be the leader in both rented owner deposits and cancelled vacations. While it's good to be the largest and be #1, this is one catagory being #1 in isn't so good.


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## tombo (May 11, 2011)

dougp26364 said:


> I don't hold cancelations due to natural disasters or resorts closing in the same regard to an exchange comany cancelling and exchange because they or the resort made a mistake. .



2 of Laurie's cancelled weeks in Europe were due to the RESORT CLOSING. What should RCI have done when the resort she was confirmed at for 2 weeks shut their doors? Should RCI pay to re-open it? Should RCI build a new resort? 

There is a resort that recently shut in St Maarten and owners who paid their 2011 MF's and exchangers who exchanged through RCI can't stay there.  I guess anyone who exchanged for a week or weeks there should blame RCI since this is obviously RCI's fault too. RCI should NEVER  allow resorts to file bankruptcy or shut once they confirm exchanges. 

I was comparing the weather which is beyond the air lines control to a resort CLOSING which is beyond RCI's control.  

In addition if a resort is at 100% occupancy and a room or rooms have problems rendering it/them unusable, that is beyond the resort's control, and beyond RCI's. When a plane has a maintenance issue grounding it, that too is beyond the airlines control. If the airline does not have a spare plane available then flight is cancelled. Both are a shame but things like this do happen and are beyond both companies control. Resorts don't leave empty units during peak times JUST IN CASE something happens, and airlines do not leave spare planes lying around at every hub in case one breaks. To do so in either case is not financially feasible.


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## Laurie (May 12, 2011)

tombo said:


> The difference s that the airline ALWAYS has more seats to the same destination, maybe not on this flight, but on the next or the next, or the next. If RCI has you booked at a resort that has shut, they can not access the same resort so their only choice is to book you at the nearest location where they have availability. Even if the resort is still open and for some reason they tell RCI that the week they had promised is no longer available, and if RCI doesn't have an alternative week at the same resort to give you, unlike the airline they don't own the inventory and can't create a week to give you. The airline can simply book you on the next available flight to that location, and they probably have several flights to that location daily, many which have empty seats.
> 
> RCI only can assign weeks to it's members that other members or resorts give to them. They don't actually own or control any weeks. RCI has to take the resort at their word when they confirm a deposit with the resort. If the resort makes a mistake, RCI can not take a week from an owner at that resort to make up for it.
> 
> The airline owns the planes, books the seats, charges you what you paid for your flight, makes 100% of the profit on what you paid, and so they can assure you a flight to your exact destination in the near future.


No, RCI wouldn't have to take a week from an owner to make up for anything, or create a week, or build a new resort, or any of that silly stuff - because they could just pay for a darn rental.

Do you know how much money they allocate to payroll, to cover endless conversations between specialists and members to suggest other destinations? Why don't they spend that $ on something more useful?

The airline will sometimes rebook you onto a different airline if they can't get you to the same destination themselves, no doubt at their expense. 

Most customer-oriented businesses will incur some degree of expense when replacing something the customer has purchased or paid for which is damaged. 

Why shouldn't RCI be expected to do the same as most providers of goods or services, to make customers whole when something goes wrong, which is just pay for equivalent reservations at the same original destination? 

It would be such a simple solution!

If it's that infrequent an occurence, even better - it would hardly be a blip on their annual budget.

In 3 out of 4 cases I described above, there were rentals available in the same complexes which would have solved my cancellation problems. 

The resort closure is the exception; but even there, rentals could have been obtained. Remember, RCI isn't only or even primarily an exchange company - they're a travel company. They handle rentals. Including of our deposited units.

Many of us can't take on rentals in addition to exchanges, because we've already allocated our vacation budgets to maintenance fees etc. in order to obtain the exchange. So in the face of cancellations, we are sometimes forced to settle for something we never wanted - like the OP - and would never have spent our limited resources on. 

I have an upcoming confirmation in a hard-to-get location in Europe, and my family and friends will be purchasing some high-dollar plane tickets to join us. These plane tickets are big deals in their budgets. It has crossed my mind more than once that we'll be SOL if another cancellation occurs, because there are no other replacement timeshare units there.


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## tombo (May 12, 2011)

Laurie said:


> No, RCI wouldn't have to take a week from an owner to make up for anything, or create a week, or build a new resort, or any of that silly stuff - because they could just pay for a darn rental.
> 
> .



You paid RCI $179 exchange fee. RCI got the week free from another member's deposit. Your resort received your MF's, not RCI. RCI makes $179 TOTAL less expenses and processing, etc on your exchange. If they offer you another comparable week they got free they are using the same business structure, fees, etc. That is doable, RCI offered that to you, but the resorts they offered were unacceptable to you. They also offered to give you your deposit and exchange fee back. That also is unacceptable to you. That is really their only 2 options if they are operating in a fiscally responsible manner

The resort closes and you want RCI to rent you a comparable unit from someone else. For the $179 you paid do you really expect RCI to pay for 7 nights in a one or 2 bed room condo? At say  $200 a night for example that would be $2400 they would pay for you. That is about 15 times what you paid RCI. 

If you had an airflight cancelled that you paid $300 for, and they don't have another flight for the same dtes/times available, do you expect the airline to place you on a business class flight that they have to purchase from another airline for $4500 if that is all that is available on the same dates/times just to satisfy you? It is the same thing. You paid them $300 for a flight but rather than taking a flight that is not acceptable to you or a refund you would expect them to pay for a flight that costs them 10 to 15 times more than you paid them? Would you do that if you owned a business? If you would you would not be in business for long.

The airline will give you a comparable flight at a comparable price or a refund. RCI will give you a comparable exchange or a refund. That is a reasonable expectation when doing business with either company. To expect a compensation from any business that costs 10 to 15 times what you paid them for a service is unrealisitc.


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## Carolinian (May 12, 2011)

My my, Tombo, you have become quite the defender of all things RCI, now, haven't you!

RCI is renting out our exchange deposits to fatten their pockets.  Why should they not take part of that to cover either their own screwups or those times they refuse to hold a resort's feet to the fire for confirming a deposit by renting a comparable week for their member?




tombo said:


> You paid RCI $179 exchange fee. RCI got the week free from another member's deposit. Your resort received your MF's, not RCI. RCI makes $179 TOTAL less expenses and processing, etc on your exchange. If they offer you another comparable week they got free they are using the same business structure, fees, etc. That is doable, RCI offered that to you, but the resorts they offered were unacceptable to you. They also offered to give you your deposit and exchange fee back. That also is unacceptable to you. That is really their only 2 options if they are operating in a fiscally responsible manner
> 
> The resort closes and you want RCI to rent you a comparable unit from someone else. For the $179 you paid do you really expect RCI to pay for 7 nights in a one or 2 bed room condo? At say  $200 a night for example that would be $2400 they would pay for you. That is about 15 times what you paid RCI.
> 
> ...


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## tombo (May 12, 2011)

Carolinian said:


> My my, Tombo, you have become quite the defender of all things RCI, now, haven't you!
> 
> RCI is renting out our exchange deposits to fatten their pockets.  Why should they not take part of that to cover either their own screwups or those times they refuse to hold a resort's feet to the fire for confirming a deposit by renting a comparable week for their member?



It is what it is. They won the court case. I wish they couldn't rent out deposited weeks, but they can. It is my BIGGEST complaint about RCI. IMO every deposit should be available for exchange and last calls ONLY. The courts di not agree. I get enough value out of RCI to use them for exchanges even though i disagree with that business practice. However rather than complain about it endlessly, I don't factor in the depsoits they rent out because I have no control over that whatsoever.

Some rental weeks are deposits from members, some are deals and bulk deposits from developers. If a rental week at a comparable resort for the same dates was a deposit by a member, sure they should offer that for compensation. If it is a week they paid a developer for, a motel for, etc, it might be financially prohibitive to offer for $179 exchange fee, and it might not. Some here don't just expect a different exchange, several have said that RCI should pay for them a week. That is not something I would do if I owned RCI. I would offer them their money back, week back and a free future exchange or a free comparable exchange and a free future exchange, but I would not consider offering a full retail paid for week costing $1500 or more after only receiving $179 for my services.

I am in business. Customer service is important. Within reason you try to make your customer happy, but there are limits as to what you can afford to do.


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## Carolinian (May 12, 2011)

Well, it seems the lawsuit is another one of those things you don't understand very well.  The court never ruled on the merits of the complaint.  In fact, it did not even get into the discovery phase.  What happened was that the shyster class action attorneys waived a white flag and sold their clients down the river for a million bucks for themselves and a collection of stupid trinkets that for the most part did not address the issues of the case for their clients.  All the court ruled on was whether the parties had entered into a valid settlement.  IMHO what the class action attorneys did was highly unethical, but then the class action segment of the legal professional has never been its most ethical.  An attorney cannot evaluate the strength of his case until he has had discovery, and that is especially true when so many facts are hidden as they were in this case.  Agreeing to such a settlement without going through discovery is IMHO malpractice.

When RCI is refusing to hold their resorts feet to the fire on the confirmations the resort gave to RCI, and instead leaving their member holding the bag, then IMHO RCI should rent comparable inventory on behalf of the member.  After all, they are snaking high value deposits out of the exchange pool and renting them to the public, some in the $1500 range.  Why should they not take some of that money and make their member whole?

It is one of the differences between RCI and at least some independents.  Watching it from the resort side, I saw DAE step forward and offer to rent its member a comparable week if the resort did not find a way to fix it.




tombo said:


> It is what it is. They won the court case. I wish they couldn't rent out deposited weeks, but they can. It is my BIGGEST complaint about RCI. IMO every deposit should be available for exchange and last calls ONLY. The courts di not agree. I get enough value out of RCI to use them for exchanges even though i disagree with that business practice. However rather than complain about it endlessly, I don't factor in the depsoits they rent out because I have no control over that whatsoever.
> 
> Some rental weeks are deposits from members, some are deals and bulk deposits from developers. If a rental week at a comparable resort for the same dates was a deposit by a member, sure they should offer that for compensation. If it is a week they paid a developer for, a motel for, etc, it might be financially prohibitive to offer for $179 exchange fee, and it might not. Some here don't just expect a different exchange, several have said that RCI should pay for them a week. That is not something I would do if I owned RCI. I would offer them their money back, week back and a free future exchange or a free comparable exchange and a free future exchange, but I would not consider offering a full retail paid for week costing $1500 or more after only receiving $179 for my services.
> 
> I am in business. Customer service is important. Within reason you try to make your customer happy, but there are limits as to what you can afford to do.


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## Laurie (May 12, 2011)

Tombo, you seem to be harping on the closed-resort cancellation, whereas the 2 earlier ones were either RCI or resort screw-ups period. I mentioned that my ire was up because of those earlier experiences. Why not address those situations?

(When the closed-resort thing happened, and one of the earlier ones as well, RCI didn't even bother to call me or notify me for awhile - I happened to see this online, and had to call. By the way, the closed-resort scenario was one in which I'd waited out RCI's stupid 1-in-4 rule. It was the first, last, and only time I've ever returned - or tried to return - to a resort I've already visited.  It was the only time to date I've booked into the same resort for 2 consecutive weeks. If not for that silly 1-in-4 rule, I would have already had that long dreamed-of return trip. I'm simply adding context to the frustration I felt at this cancellation, and the way they handled it.) 

I don't love airlines, but at least sometimes I've been given business class seats, and some hefty vouchers, in addition to a flight to the _same exact location_, as well as a staff dedicated to getting me to the _exact same location_ as quickly as possible, when things have gone wrong and I was delayed by a few hours.

Let's compare profitability. How do most airlines' bottom lines look to you? Now how 'bout Cendant or Wyndham or whoever they are?

If the only thing an airline would do for you would be to offer you a ticket to Missouri when you'd been booked to fly to NYC, and they had the capability to get you to NYC because the airline at the next counter had seats availabile on a flights going out in 2 hours, wouldn't you be baffled? 

These instances aren't enough to drive me away from RCI, I already said I use them exclusively, and often. I'm probably in the 90% percentile of frequency of use. But their lack of flexibility and customer friendliness in these situations has almost driven me to quit, and it has driven others to quit, and IMO is a poor business decision in the long run on their part.


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## tombo (May 12, 2011)

Carolinian said:


> Well, it seems the lawsuit is another one of those things you don't understand very well.  The court never ruled on the merits of the complaint.  In fact, it did not even get into the discovery phase.  What happened was that the shyster class action attorneys waived a white flag and sold their clients down the river for a million bucks for themselves and a collection of stupid trinkets that for the most part did not address the issues of the case for their clients.  All the court ruled on was whether the parties had entered into a valid settlement.  IMHO what the class action attorneys did was highly unethical, but then the class action segment of the legal professional has never been its most ethical.  An attorney cannot evaluate the strength of his case until he has had discovery, and that is especially true when so many facts are hidden as they were in this case.  Agreeing to such a settlement without going through discovery is IMHO malpractice.



You are an attorney. I am not. I definetelly don't understand how a group can hire attorneys to sue RCI to stop them from renting out members deposited weeks and the lawyers can "settle" for a bunch of money for themselves and worthless offerings for us. That to me is criminal, but the lawyers got away with it. They got paid millions, RCI members got nothing. You dislike RCI's business practices. I hate how lawyers can go to court and  win a lot of money for themselves while screwing the people that hired them. You call it malpractice, they didn't have their licenses revoked, they weren't censured, they were paid millions. Seems like practice as normal for attorneys to me.

 Please update us all on the status of the law suit against the shyster lawyers who screwed all RCI members and also update and educate us on the status of the current law suit suing RCI to stop them from renting out our deposited weeks. Oh yeah the lawyers took the money and NOTHING is happening to them except they got richer. Oh yeah no lawyers including YOURSELF are interested in suing RCI unless a bunch of owners pony up a lot of money. So yes RCI won in court. There are no pending cases or rulings awaited on their right to rent out weeks. The case that was filed as been settled. When you settle it is over. RCI is still allowed to rent out weeks. How can that not be considered a win for RCI? I am not a lawyer but if I was RCI it would sure feel like a win.

We disagree on a lot of things, however if you want to take the reigns and  sue RCI to stop them from renting out weeks, I will become a Carolinian fan and supporter. Please start the ball rolling and count me in. File suit. Use your legal degree for the good of all and sue them to stop this practice which is unacceptable. However if you can't or won't find a way to stop them legally, all the whining, moaning, and complaining about their rental program is a waste of time. 




Carolinian said:


> When RCI is refusing to hold their resorts feet to the fire on the confirmations the resort gave to RCI, and instead leaving their member holding the bag, then IMHO RCI should rent comparable inventory on behalf of the member.  After all, they are snaking high value deposits out of the exchange pool and renting them to the public, some in the $1500 range.  Why should they not take some of that money and make their member whole?



Refunding the money and giving the deposited week backmakes them whole. That is what they gave for an exchange. Making one whole is returning them to how they were before the situation occurred. When the exchange falls through returning the payment for cancelled services and the week deposited makes them whole, and as an attorney you know that. 

If I buy a 42 inch TV at Best Buy and it breaks, when I return it if they have no more models like that they can refund my money and make me whole. They do not have to give me a 50 inch TV since what I purchased is not available. They do not have to go to Sears and pay more to buy me a TV just like I ourchased from Best Buy. They do not have to pay me for TV shows I missed while my TV was broken. They refund my money I paid them when I purchased the TV and I am whole.

You are a government employee and lawyer, so paying $1000's retail to rent a week for someone who paid $179 would seem feasible to both groups. After all the government can print money and operate for decades at a loss. Attorneys typically look for the most money they can wring out of a company, not what is fair and reasonable. Lawyers like to sue for millions in punitive damages and pain and suffering for for minor things like being too stupid to realize that coffe is hot and shouldn't be poured in one's lap unless there is a huge WARNING on the cup. Reckon that Lawyers try to make businesses pay huge settlements because they make a percentage of all monies awarded in most cases? Wow it might be greed and not looking out for their clients that motivates lawyers. Who da thunk it?

For profit businesses have a different view and must make a PROFIT after expenses and after defending and paying lawyers for frivolous law suits. 



Carolinian said:


> It is one of the differences between RCI and at least some independents.  Watching it from the resort side, I saw DAE step forward and offer to rent its member a comparable week if the resort did not find a way to fix it.



Hmmm. Attorney that is heresay and unacceptable in court. You allegedly  know of member....  That person needs to appear here and post their story themselves. Perhaps DAE offered that, perhaps not. You have no proof counselor, so that testimony must be stricken and ignored by the TUG readers.

However even though your heresay is not admissable, it does show that you have you feel that DAE has cancelled exchanges too. You saw this from the resort side. From the resort side was this allegedly your fault as a board member of the resort, or DAE's? If it was the fault of the resort, can the board be held liable?  Should the resort pay retail for the DAE exchanger to stay somehwere else since they told DAE the week was available? Should the board be sued for the negligence of an employeee who wrongly promised DAE that the week was available? Should DAE pay retail to rent a week for their exchanger and sue the resort to recover the rental fees plus legal costs, pain and suffering, and punitive damages? Should DAE sue the board for hiring and retaining incompetent employees? If the unit became unuseable who is responsible, and for how much. Can the exchanger also sue the board and resort for emotional distress since the exchanger was notified that they no longer have an exchange? I am not a lawyer but I feel sure all of the above are sueable. 

Legally the sky is the limit. But of course the lawyers won't in reality sue most resorts because typically the resorts don't have deep pockets. However to sue RCI, DAE, II, etc there is a lot of money to be made. Who is at fault and what is reasonable compensation doesn't matter in the legal world. Neither do the words right or fair. It comes down to how can the lawyer make the most money for themselves whether it is good for their clients or not. If anyone doubts a lawyers motivation just see how rich the lawyers got in the RCI case and what wonderfull things they did for us members. You think RCI does a disservice to it's members. How about looking at what a disservice was done to RCI members by the lawyers.


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## tombo (May 12, 2011)

Laurie said:


> I don't love airlines, but at least sometimes I've been given business class seats, and some hefty vouchers, in addition to a flight to the _same exact location_, as well as a staff dedicated to getting me to the _exact same location_ as quickly as possible, when things have gone wrong and I was delayed by a few hours.
> 
> Let's compare profitability. How do most airlines' bottom lines look to you? Now how 'bout Cendant or Wyndham or whoever they are?
> 
> ...



If RCI EVER cancels a confirmed exchange of mine I will go off. I will be raising cain, asking for supervisers, the top of my head will blow off. I can assure you that several RCI supervisers and myself will have a bad time until they give me a comparable week or finally tell me that there is nothing they can do and that I am SOL. I understand why you are justifiably mad. Whether the resort shut or whether there was a mistake made, the bottom line is that you planned on a vacation and it was taken from you.

When you said that RCI offered you resorts in different locations, if that is all they have, that is all they can do. We can never know for sure what they have available and they might have something close by and lie and say they don't. If you take them at their word they will get you the closest best exchange they can. If you feel they lied to you then you have 2 choice, live with it because more often than not they treat you well, or quit. Several  have posted here that they received comparable or even better exchanges, so I hope they ALWAYS do their best to find an acceptable replacement. You said the weeks they offered you were in different areas. If that is all they have, what else can they do? 

If they have nothing in Maui for the exact dates one needs, and if they offer Kauai which is the closest week they have available for the needed dates but that won't work, should they pay $5000 retail to rent a week in the Westin  for a member in Maui after receiving $179 in exchange fees or apologize and  refund the money and deposited week? 

The airline example is similar if you compare them on a similar basis. If the Airline has an empty first class seat, they can give it to you even though they cancelled a coach seat you paid for. If RCI had you confirmed in a studio and they have an empty 3 bed unit, they can give you that too and have done so for sevral who posted here. Upgrades within company are much easier and cheaper.

Where the difference comes in is when you say I want RCI to put me in the same location no matter what it costs. If they don't have an available exchange in that area, the best they can do is offer you what is available as close as possible. If one of those will work, great. If not, here is your refund, your week back, and a free week in the future. 

If you told the airlines my flight to NY was supposed to leave at 9 am and I have a meeting at 5pm in New York and I want to be on a 9 am flight on any airline no matter what it costs you, they will not do it. They will not charter you you a flight or purchase you a first class ticket on another air line. I have missed a meeting from a cancelled flight in the past, and they did not book me a flight at any cost. They searched all available, told me what and when they could get me, and none would get me there in time (I now always fly the night before just in case). They refunded my money and gave me a free voucher for a future DOMESTIC flight, not a free worldwide ticket, not 4 free vouchers, not 10 times what I paid, simply a refund of what I paid and a voucher for the future.

If the airline had one flight to New York a week, and if that flight was full, all they could offer you is a refund or another destination. They have hundreds of flights to your location a day and hundreds tomorrow. If RCI, II, Dae, SFX, etc have zero availability for the location you need on the dates you need, they can't invent a room anymore than an airline can invent a flight.


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## Carolinian (May 12, 2011)

In class action cases, very often the class action lawyers recruit their plaintiffs.  There was a second lawsuit in the Points system on some of the same issues, but I have not followed that one.  I know one RCI sceptic Tugger was involved in helping recruit plaintiffs and an RCI sceptic Tugger was the lead plaintiff because both of them communicated with me after the lawsuit was filed.  I was personally surprised, based on his posts on TUG and elsewhere that the lead plaintiff allowed the shyster class action lawyers to browbeat him into not objecting to the sellout.

As I have pointed out since before the class action lawsuit was filed, the best way to go after RCI's malpractices was never a class action lawsuit.  Instead it would be by consumer protection suit by a State Attorney General. Since they are government employees, they get salary checks rather than profiting from fees from a case, so they don't sell out for cash like class action lawyers often do.  Also important, they have tools that class action lawyers do not have like pre-litigation subpoena powers.  They should start an investigation of RCI's rentals, subpoena their personel and records and get the goods on them before the case was even filed.  A state AG is also more likely to be able to keep the case in his own state court rather than having to deal with it in New Jersey, giving a tactical advantage.  AG is often said to also stand for ''Aspiring Governor'' and the chance to stand up for local timeshare owners against a big out of state corporation that was taking advantage of them would make good political points.  The kicker is that AG's being elected officials tend to be partisan and mine has been of the wrong party for me to have any influence, since I was a political appointee in a policy level position in the administration of the opposing party (and BTW that was almost two decades ago, and I have not worked in government since).  Thanks to a series of scandals in an agency he oversees, our AG may be getting replaced in 2012, and if one from my party goes in, I may well have some access to help get this ball rollling.

With a vacation, there is a lot more that goes into it than just the accomodations, such as people's time off from work, air tickets that may be non-refundable, etc.  Just giving them a refund of exchange fees and their week back very often in a long way from making them whole.

As to the DAE situation, it is not just hearsay.  As HOA president, I was in the middle of it, so I am well aware of what happened.




tombo said:


> You are an attorney. I am not. I definetelly don't understand how a group can hire attorneys to sue RCI to stop them from renting out members deposited weeks and the lawyers can "settle" for a bunch of money for themselves and worthless offerings for us. That to me is criminal, but the lawyers got away with it. They got paid millions, RCI members got nothing. You dislike RCI's business practices. I hate how lawyers can go to court and  win a lot of money for themselves while screwing the people that hired them. You call it malpractice, they didn't have their licenses revoked, they weren't censured, they were paid millions. Seems like practice as normal for attorneys to me.
> 
> Please update us all on the status of the law suit against the shyster lawyers who screwed all RCI members and also update and educate us on the status of the current law suit suing RCI to stop them from renting out our deposited weeks. Oh yeah the lawyers took the money and NOTHING is happening to them except they got richer. Oh yeah no lawyers including YOURSELF are interested in suing RCI unless a bunch of owners pony up a lot of money. So yes RCI won in court. There are no pending cases or rulings awaited on their right to rent out weeks. The case that was filed as been settled. When you settle it is over. RCI is still allowed to rent out weeks. How can that not be considered a win for RCI? I am not a lawyer but if I was RCI it would sure feel like a win.
> 
> ...


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## Carolinian (May 12, 2011)

In such IRROPS situations, an airline will often endorse your ticket over to another carrier.  I had that happen last in February when due to snow in the US, CO's flight into Munich could not make it so there was no plane to fly out on.  They endorsed my ticket over to DL and I arrived at my final destination an hour before my scheduled flights would have.

Hotels do the same.  Last month, I went to check in to my 3* hotel on the channel island of Guernsey and they told me that a plumbing problem had made three rooms including mine unusable.  They charged me the agreed rate for their hotel and put me at a better located 4* hotel, paying the difference in cost themselves.

The comparable thing for an exchange company to do would be to rent you a week at a comparable resort in the same location.



Laurie said:


> Tombo, you seem to be harping on the closed-resort cancellation, whereas the 2 earlier ones were either RCI or resort screw-ups period. I mentioned that my ire was up because of those earlier experiences. Why not address those situations?
> 
> (When the closed-resort thing happened, and one of the earlier ones as well, RCI didn't even bother to call me or notify me for awhile - I happened to see this online, and had to call. By the way, the closed-resort scenario was one in which I'd waited out RCI's stupid 1-in-4 rule. It was the first, last, and only time I've ever returned - or tried to return - to a resort I've already visited.  It was the only time to date I've booked into the same resort for 2 consecutive weeks. If not for that silly 1-in-4 rule, I would have already had that long dreamed-of return trip. I'm simply adding context to the frustration I felt at this cancellation, and the way they handled it.)
> 
> ...


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## tombo (May 12, 2011)

Carolinian said:


> Hotels do the same.  Last month, I went to check in to my 3* hotel on the channel island of Guernsey and they told me that a plumbing problem had made three rooms including mine unusable.  They charged me the agreed rate for their hotel and put me at a better located 4* hotel, paying the difference in cost themselves.
> 
> The comparable thing for an exchange company to do would be to rent you a week at a comparable resort in the same location.



Not comparable at all. Airlines and motels often have reciprocity deals to help each other othe in situations like these. RCI can not get a week from any motel/resort for anywhere close to $179 for 7 days unless it is a deposit from a member or possibly an affiliate resort/hotel.

If you paid $200 a nght for the 3 star room and the 4 star costs $250 a night, and if you stay 4 nights, the motel received $800 from you and paid the other resort $1000 MAX,losing $200 MAX. That is if they paid full rate and  if they didn't get a professional courtesy discount. They might have had the other resort comp them the rooms at the rate you originally paid costing them nothing.

If one pays $179 exchange fee to RCI for a week and RCI pays $250 a night plus tax for 7 nights to rent a comarable room, they will pay about $2000 for a week they recieved $179 for losing $1800 or more. 

Let me put it in terms more TUGGERS will agree with. I own and rent out many of my weeks. If I rent a week to someone for $1000 ($700 MF's so only $300 profit) and the resort burns to the ground, I will not find a comparable resort and pay for them to stay there UNLESS I can rent them a week somewhere else as cheap as mine or cheaper. I will refund their money unless a same priced acceptable rental week is avaialble in the area. If they ask me or expect me to pay $1500 or $2000 to rent them a week at a nearby resort when I only received $1000 for my week, I will not even consider it. I am not going to turn a rental I made a whopping $300 profit on into a $1500 to $2000 loss for me because the room I rented to them is no longer available. I am sorry if they have air fares purchased. I am sorry if that is the only week they can go. I am sorry that I paid MF's and can't rent or use my week too. With all good faith I rented them a week. It is not available. I will refund their money, apologize, and nothing more. 

On the rental section many TUGGERS have a zero cancellation, zero refund policy. More than one TUGGER says that they point their renters to web sites that have trip interruption insurance and tell them that if a hurricane or some other reason prevents them from travelling that they will not under any circumstances refund any money. This was discussed during a hurricane and I said I would refund the money if a hurricane closed the area. Many TUGGERS said that is what trip interruption insurance is for, that they would not refund the money. 

Here is a quote from a post by Denise M:
"One thing that I've added to my rental terms, right after "No Refunds, No Cancellations for any reason," is "Travel Insurance recommended."
This is how I look at it: I am not in the insurance business, and I cannot afford to subsidize a renter's change in plans, no matter how legitimate the problem may be - that's why travel insurance exists."

How many here on TUG would rent their personal weeks to someone and pay out MORE MONEY  than they received from the renter to rent them a place at another resort if their week became unavailable for ANY REASON? The honest answer is very few if any. My honest answer is not me.


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## tombo (May 12, 2011)

Carolinian said:


> Thanks to a series of scandals in an agency he oversees, our AG may be getting replaced in 2012, and if one from my party goes in, I may well have some access to help get this ball rollling.



 I would love for you or anyone to stop RCI from renting our deposits. If you take on RCI and try to stop them from renting out our weeks we could become allies.  

We could post together in agreement.  

We would be on the same side.  

If we ever become a team, acheiving peace in the middle east should be a piece of cake. :rofl:


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## Carolinian (May 13, 2011)

You forget that RCI is also renting out some exchange deposits for big bucks.  They could take some of those to do a make-good rental for members, especially when it is their own screw up or their failure to hold an affiliate resort's feet to the fire on a confirmation that is the basis of the problem to begin with.




tombo said:


> Not comparable at all. Airlines and motels often have reciprocity deals to help each other othe in situations like these. RCI can not get a week from any motel/resort for anywhere close to $179 for 7 days unless it is a deposit from a member or possibly an affiliate resort/hotel.
> 
> If you paid $200 a nght for the 3 star room and the 4 star costs $250 a night, and if you stay 4 nights, the motel received $800 from you and paid the other resort $1000 MAX,losing $200 MAX. That is if they paid full rate and  if they didn't get a professional courtesy discount. They might have had the other resort comp them the rooms at the rate you originally paid costing them nothing.
> 
> ...


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## JEFF H (May 19, 2011)

GKK said:


> Letter went out to RCI today....we will see how they respond. I told them I
> did not want another vacation. I would appreciate my exchange fee back,
> ( they would still get to keep the extra $69 I spent to extend my week to get this resort) or extend my RCI fee.
> GKK



seems reasonable hope RCI takes care of it.

I had a different situation recently with a exchange to the Sumitt Resort Panama City Beach.
Late flight and the resort office was closed but the parking lot attendant had our key for the unit.
soon as we walked in the unit reeked of stale cig smoke and mildew/mold.
AC worked intermittently or not at all.
Curtain on master bedroom window was falling down with gaps so guests walking by main walkway could see into unit.
Talked to manager and was told RCI was informed the unit was going to be down for maintenance and asked that they move us elsewhere befor we checked in. RCI didn't have anything and insisted the resort put us in the unit originally banked.
RCI denied that the resort informed them of the unit condition so it was a finger pointing situation between the resort and RCI.


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## tombo (May 19, 2011)

JEFF H said:


> seems reasonable hope RCI takes care of it.
> 
> I had a different situation recently with a exchange to the Sumitt Resort Panama City Beach.
> Late flight and the resort office was closed but the parking lot attendant had our key for the unit.
> ...



There are several resorts in Panama City that are not worth staying in unless you are a college kid or don't care about the condition of the room IMO. You exchanged for one of the resorts I won't exchange for if it costs 10 TPU's for a 4th of July week. The resort is old and it has no RCI rating which is not always bad, but it is reason to worry. Most of the resort is full time owners with a few units being timeshares. The resort is kept up pretty well, but the  timeshare rooms are not maintained very well IMO. In addition this resort is located right in the middle of the teenage area where Club LaVella is. This is where MTV films spring break every year. The traffic and noise in that area of PC is horrible except during times when the kids are is school. At night traffic almost stops as the teenagers cruise that area. 

Stay on the west part of PC away from the teenagers. If you come back to Panama City using RCI book the Wyndham (which is brand new), Escapes to tropical Breeze if you can get it (which is also brand new), or the Landmark Holiday Beach Resort (older resort maintained well) in that order. Everything else in PC is older resorts which might or might not be maintained well. If you get one of these three resorts you will have a great trip. If you stay somewhere else you might or might not have a good trip from my experience, and I spend at least one week a year in Panama City, usually 2 weeks. If I had the vacation time I would there much more. I love this area and the beaches. I hope you enjoyed your vacation other than the accomodations.


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## JEFF H (May 19, 2011)

tombo said:


> I hope you enjoyed your vacation other than the accomodations.



Loved Panama city beach,St Andrews and Camp Helen state Parks were great. Loved the Fresh shrimp from buddys seafood market that they steamed for us with spices.
we were there at the Tail end of bike week. Checked in late saturday night and it was crazy untill atleast 4:30 am. all the bikers departed on Sunday and it was really dead after that with no noise at night.
I was told after Bike week it does not really pickup untill the start of summer. 
Slow time was perfect for us. Mostly a older crowd at the sumitt after saturday night.
The Summitt public areas were well kept and we enjoyed Bikini bobs bar & grill onsite for cheap eats and cheap beer.
We would go again but will take your advise on one of the other resorts.
Ft walton Beach area seemed like it would be a nice place to stay as well.


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## tombo (May 19, 2011)

JEFF H said:


> Loved Panama city beach,St Andrews and Camp Helen state Parks were great. Loved the Fresh shrimp from buddys seafood market that they steamed for us with spices.
> we were there at the Tail end of bike week. Checked in late saturday night and it was crazy untill atleast 4:30 am. all the bikers departed on Sunday and it was really dead after that with no noise at night.
> I was told after Bike week it does not really pickup untill the start of summer.
> Slow time was perfect for us. Mostly a older crowd at the sumitt after saturday night.
> ...



Ft Walton is a good area,but no timeshares there worth staying in. Destin is great too,but everything is more expensive in Destin than Panama City. Destin is the high rent section of the Redneck Riviera.


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## kasteer (May 23, 2011)

My parents got a call from RCI ontheir way (driving) to their resort several states away.  RCI had to change their resort for some issue.  The resort was further away from where my parents wanted to be, but were happy with the alternate resort and liked it.  RCI refunded my parents all their points as compensation for the mix-up.


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