# Changing Ownership to Trust



## sdtugger (Oct 10, 2014)

We finally got around to creating a Trust.  Our attorney wants us to put our timeshares into the Trust.  That means that we need to change the title on Marriotts in Hawaii, Utah, and Missouri.  I've contacted Marriott about what I need to do once we have the title changed.

Any suggestions for one title company or escrow company that could do all three at a reasonable price?

Any downsides to making this change?  What will happen to my II account?

Thanks for any insights.


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## VegasBella (Oct 11, 2014)

A trust allows the assets it contains to pass quickly and easily to your heirs when you pass away. AFAIK it doesn't offer much in the way of other benefits. The essence of a trust: it lives on after you pass away.

When it comes to timeshares it may make more sense to keep them out of the trust. Depends on whether you - and your heirs - view the timeshare as an asset or a liability. Leaving them out of the trust but in the will gives your heirs the opportunity to reject the timeshare if they don't want it. Putting it in the trust essentially forces them to accept it, or at the very least use other assets to manage the sale/transfer.

I'd evaluate the timeshares actual current market value before assuming it's an asset worth protecting with a trust.


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## ttt (Oct 11, 2014)

Legal Timeshare Transfers, www.lttransfers.com  ,can do all of your new deeds should you decide to put them in a trust.


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## vacationtime1 (Oct 11, 2014)

You will need an new Interval account -- one in the name of the trust rather than your existing account in the names of real people.  And you will need to time each transfer into the trust such that you do not lose any existing deposits or exchanges (because "you" no longer own the unit).

By transferring your multi-state portfolio into the trust, you will save your executors the need for probate proceedings in multiple states.


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## Superchief (Oct 11, 2014)

We are also considering putting our 5 MVC enrolled weeks and 1500 Trust Points into a trust. How will this impact our DC membership? If we need to change all of the titles, would our Premiere Plus DC and II memberships be easily transferred and maintained?


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## vacationtime1 (Oct 11, 2014)

Superchief said:


> We are also considering putting our 5 MVC enrolled weeks and 1500 Trust Points into a trust. How will this impact our DC membership? If we need to change all of the titles, would our Premiere Plus DC and II memberships be easily transferred and maintained?



I would start by querying Marriott.  I'm fairly certain that this is a permitted transfer, but if it would disqualify you from DC, you want to know that before putting any additional effort into the process.


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## bogey21 (Oct 11, 2014)

VegasBella said:


> When it comes to timeshares it may make more sense to keep them out of the trust. Depends on whether you - and your heirs - view the timeshare as an asset or a liability. Leaving them out of the trust but in the will gives your heirs the opportunity to reject the timeshare if they don't want it. Putting it in the trust essentially forces them to accept it, or at the very least use other assets to manage the sale/transfer.
> 
> I'd evaluate the timeshares actual current market value before assuming it's an asset worth protecting with a trust.



I agree.  Move your Weeks into a Trust and IMO all you do is spend money and lose flexibility.

George


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## sdtugger (Oct 11, 2014)

Our attorney told us that if we don't put our timeshares into the trust that the estate will need to go through probate in all three states plus our home state.  That would be very time consuming and potentially costly.  Our conclusion is that it is worth it to move the timeshares into the trust.  The only downsides that I've identified are the hassles and expense  with changing the title.  I would appreciate hearing specific examples of any other downsides.  Thanks.


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## sdtugger (Oct 15, 2014)

I spoke with Marriott (MVCI) and they assured me that I would not lose any existing reservations if I changed my ownership to my Trust and that nothing else would change other than that I'd get a new account number.  They also told me that my account with Interval would not change at all.

I then called the Marriott desk at Interval and they repeated that I would not need a new Interval account.  Nothing would change with Interval.

As a result, I am going to go forward with the change in ownership.  I hope it works out as I was told it would.


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## taffy19 (Oct 15, 2014)

Ask them to give it to you in writing and how much it will cost.  We need to do the same thing but keep procrastinating.


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## sdtugger (Oct 15, 2014)

iconnections said:


> Ask them to give it to you in writing and how much it will cost.  We need to do the same thing but keep procrastinating.



MVCI has a form to change everything once the title is changed.  The fee is $25/unit.


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## bogey21 (Oct 15, 2014)

sdtugger said:


> Our attorney told us that if we don't put our timeshares into the trust that the estate will need to go through probate in all three states plus our home state.



When you don't know the answer ask a question.  My question is "If something is JTWROS does it have to go through probate"?

George


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## SWichma (Oct 17, 2014)

One of the advantages of putting your times share assets in the trust or forming an LLC for them is that when they pass to you heirs they can keep them in the trust and the will keep your status level.  If they are deeded into their individual names then depending on what you own their status will drop to whatever they own.  So that is another advantage.


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## sdtugger (Oct 20, 2014)

bogey21 said:


> When you don't know the answer ask a question.  My question is "If something is JTWROS does it have to go through probate"?
> 
> George



I am not a trusts and estates attorney.  But, my understanding is that JTWROS (Joint Tenants With Right of Survivorship) only helps avoid probate for the joint tenants.  In other words, if something is owned by a husband and wife as JTWROS, then it passes to the surviving spouse  when one of them dies without going through probate.  But, that doesn't help when the second spouse dies.

Anyway, that is my understanding.  But, my understanding may be worth what you paid for it . . .


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## larryallen (Oct 21, 2014)

sdtugger said:


> I am not a trusts and estates attorney.  But, my understanding is that JTWROS (Joint Tenants With Right of Survivorship) only helps avoid probate for the joint tenants.  In other words, if something is owned by a husband and wife as JTWROS, then it passes to the surviving spouse  when one of them dies without going through probate.  But, that doesn't help when the second spouse dies.
> 
> Anyway, that is my understanding.  But, my understanding may be worth what you paid for it . . .



You got it right. JT is fine as long as one is still alive but you can't always plan these things. Plus, what if one spouse dies and the other is incapacitated!?  In my view it is always best to put timeshares into trusts. Multi-state probates possible and would be expensive. A properly funded trust will avoid that. You do NOT need a title company. Just a deed preparation company. In Hawaii my law offices hires Hawaii Deed Service; Jerry Garcia, Esq. For other states, outside California, we use US Deeds. It's typically about $200-300 per deed to transfer them to a trust. It can be significantly more expensive after death if not in a trust. Remember it's not about the asset it's about making sure you don't stick your estate, and your kids, with a liability they can't even give away. Put it in a trust to make transfer easy after death or incapacity.


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## bogey21 (Oct 22, 2014)

I see plusses and minuses using a trust or not using a trust.  Probably up to the individual circurstances and desires.  Maybe a lot depends on age and/or financial circumstance.  

If in a trust, the trust is liable for MFs (and possibly disposition) whether the Week continues to be wanted or not.  If JTROS, and one person dies the other gets the Week and it becomes individual property and subject to probate of the Survivor's will.  At that time beneficiaries can decide whether to take or disclaim the Week.  This includes the surviving spouse, if any.

My personal choice would be to have the Week in only one name.  When that person dies, the spouse (assuming there is one) or other beneficiary can decide to keep or disclaim the Week.  IMO this provides maximum flexability.

George


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## sparty (Oct 22, 2014)

bogey21 said:


> I see plusses and minuses using a trust or not using a trust.  Probably up to the individual circurstances and desires.  Maybe a lot depends on age and/or financial circumstance.
> 
> If in a trust, the trust is liable for MFs (and possibly disposition) whether the Week continues to be wanted or not.  If JTROS, and one person dies the other gets the Week and it becomes individual property and subject to probate of the Survivor's will.  At that time beneficiaries can decide whether to take or disclaim the Week.  This includes the surviving spouse, if any.
> 
> ...



I agree with George leave it out of a trust.. Have a will and specify directions for the timeshare, cover all the scenarios.  If it somehow does go to probate it's still easy to disposition.


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## sdtugger (Oct 22, 2014)

sparty said:


> I agree with George leave it out of a trust.. Have a will and specify directions for the timeshare, cover all the scenarios.  If it somehow does go to probate it's still easy to disposition.



The problem with leaving my timeshares out of the Trust in my situation is that it would result in probate in four different states.  By placing the timeshares into the Trust, my heirs should avoid probate altogether (that is the goal).  Avoiding the cost in money and time of going through probate in four different states is worth the potential for somewhat less flexibility.  Plus, the beneficiaries of a Trust can still refuse to take on the timeshares if that is what they want to do.


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## bogey21 (Oct 23, 2014)

sdtugger said:


> The problem with leaving my timeshares out of the Trust in my situation is that it would result in probate in four different states.



You are assuming you will keep the Weeks until you die.  That's what I thought when I was in my late 50s.  Sometime after reaching 70+, and after consulting with my ex-wife and kids, they were all gone.  Had I put my Weeks in a Trust I would have spent a bunch of money for nothing.

George


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## sdtugger (Oct 23, 2014)

bogey21 said:


> You are assuming you will keep the Weeks until you die.  That's what I thought when I was in my late 50s.  Sometime after reaching 70+, and after consulting with my ex-wife and kids, they were all gone.  Had I put my Weeks in a Trust I would have spent a bunch of money for nothing.
> 
> George



Good point.  Estate planning is a bit of a guessing game because we never know when any of us will be gone.  However, a primary purpose of my estate planning is to help my heirs to avoid the costs and hassles of probate.  If I go to the trouble and expense of creating a trust only to leave assets out of it that will cause my heirs to go through probate (in the case of my timeshares, to go through probate in 3 extra states), then I've frustrated a primary purpose of my estate planning.  This is true whether I'm talking about timeshares or any other asset that I might sell prior to my demise.  For example, I am going through the hassle of moving a bunch of US savings bonds into the trust.  Most of them will mature before I hope that I will be gone.  Nevertheless, if I don't move them into the trust now on the assumption that I won't die until after they mature, my estate plan will be very messed up if I were to die tomorrow.  In that case, then I shouldn't have wasted any time or money on the estate planning process at all.

I am using LT Transfers as referenced above.  I should be able to get everything done for less than $200 per timeshare.  That seems worth it to me to keep a primary purpose of my estate planning intact.  Yes, I may sell the timeshares before I die.  But, if I still own them, my heirs would spend many multiples of $200 trying to probate each timeshare in a separate state.


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