# Spirit at it again



## Transit (Apr 20, 2010)

Now Spirit has new planes with seats that don't recline.Article


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## dougp26364 (Apr 21, 2010)

Charge for carry on bags, pack 'em in like sardines and don't allow the seats to recline. Oh yea, this is the airline I want to ride on for 2+ hours.  

I wonder what the over/under is in Vegas on how long it will take before they go belly up? Then again, what do you expect from an airline that offers $9 fares?


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## PigsDad (Apr 21, 2010)

I am always amazed at what people will do to save $20 on airfare.  As long as they keep the illusion that the customer is getting a better deal, they will most likely be successful.  But they certainly won't get my business.

Kurt


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## Patri (Apr 21, 2010)

Boy, I need a seat to recline. Just those few inches makes it so much easier to sleep.


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## ondeadlin (Apr 21, 2010)

I honestly think wish ALL airlines would do this, at least on short-hop domestic flights. The fact is, with seats now grouped much closer together than originally intended, reclining your seat is often an intrusion on the person behind you. I never recline and know that many high-mileage frequent fliers who feel the same way.


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## Larry (Apr 21, 2010)

ondeadlin said:


> I honestly think wish ALL airlines would do this, at least on short-hop domestic flights. The fact is, with seats now grouped much closer together than originally intended, reclining your seat is often an intrusion on the person behind you. I never recline and know that many high-mileage frequent fliers who feel the same way.



Completely agree!!!!!


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## Bruce W (Apr 21, 2010)

ondeadlin said:


> I honestly think wish ALL airlines would do this, at least on short-hop domestic flights. The fact is, with seats now grouped much closer together than originally intended, reclining your seat is often an intrusion on the person behind you. I never recline and know that many high-mileage frequent fliers who feel the same way.



Agree here as well,  I am 6'4" wife 5'11", we never recline seats and more often than not have seats laying on our knees, a discussion we have had in the past.


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## PigsDad (Apr 21, 2010)

ondeadlin said:


> I honestly think wish ALL airlines would do this, at least on short-hop domestic flights. The fact is, with seats now grouped much closer together than originally intended, reclining your seat is often an intrusion on the person behind you. I never recline and know that many high-mileage frequent fliers who feel the same way.


I think the point is that Spirit is not just eliminating the reclining seat -- they are doing that in order to get more seats in the plane.  That means the seats will be _*even closer together*_!

I'm sure there will be plenty of shorter people that will not notice the difference, but being 6'5", my legs barely fit between the seats as it stands.  In fact, I usually remove all the in-flight magazines, catalogs, etc. in the seat pocket and put them in the overhead bin to get that extra 1" of leg room.  I wonder if Spirit would charge me for the overhead storage? :rofl: 

Doesn't really matter much to me -- if Spirit crams those seats closer together, I would never use them.  

Kurt


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## ondeadlin (Apr 21, 2010)

I'll bet Spirit's non-reclining seats with the 28 inch configuration give you more room than a plane with 30 inch configuration once the seat is reclined. At least you know what you're getting into with Spirit.


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## PigsDad (Apr 21, 2010)

ondeadlin said:


> I'll bet Spirit's non-reclining seats with the 28 inch configuration give you more room than a plane with 30 inch configuration once the seat is reclined. At least you know what you're getting into with Spirit.


Nope (at least, not for me).  My knees hit the seat just slightly above the point that it pivots.  When the person in front of me reclines it only slightly affects the leg room.  While a reclined seat in front of me is an inconvience, it really doesn't affect my comfort much.

Kurt


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## rickandcindy23 (Apr 21, 2010)

On our flight to Maui this trip (still here), two small children were sitting in front of Rick and I, neither one was older than 5, and their mother reclined their seats.  Rick is six foot and didn't need to have less leg room for a child!  Here he was so grateful that it was a little kid in front of him....   

I never recline mine, because I am not tall enough to care, nor do I like to lean back like that.  I usually read. 

Spirit Airlines' CEO was just on Fox talking about how his airline has increased bookings by 50% since the announcement.  How crazy is that!


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## Fern Modena (Apr 21, 2010)

About reclining seats:  I wish the airlines would go with the model they use on European trains...if you wish to recline on one of their seats, it slides forward on itself.  Thus you are still within your own space, not into anyone else's.  On a plane it is the reverse, unless *everybody* reclines, and this is not the case.  I really don't care for a seat back in my face on an airplane...just call me claustrophobic.


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## Luanne (Apr 21, 2010)

rickandcindy23 said:


> Spirit Airlines' CEO was just on Fox talking about how his airline has increased bookings by 50% since the announcement.  How crazy is that!



I saw him on Today this morning.  He was saying that Spirit has reduced fares more than the $45.00 they are charging for the carry on bags.  So, those who either check their bags, or have carry ons small enough to go under the seats are paying less than they would have in the past.  This may be why their bookings have increased.  However, the problem, as brought up by whoever was on the show opposing the fee, is that other airlines may follow without reducing their fares.


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## california-bighorn (Apr 21, 2010)

ondeadlin said:


> I honestly think wish ALL airlines would do this, at least on short-hop domestic flights. The fact is, with seats now grouped much closer together than originally intended, reclining your seat is often an intrusion on the person behind you. I never recline and know that many high-mileage frequent fliers who feel the same way.



Couldn't agree more!!!


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## Talent312 (Apr 21, 2010)

Luanne said:


> ... other airlines may follow without reducing their fares.



The pressure on the other airlines is to become a no-frills, no-service, fly-by-night type airline,
just like Spirit. IOW, to race to the bottom and become one with the lowest common denominator.


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## T_R_Oglodyte (Apr 21, 2010)

Talent312 said:


> The pressure on the other airlines is to become a no-frills, no-service, fly-by-night type airline,
> just like Spirit. IOW, to race to the bottom and become one with the lowest common denominator.


And that's because the public, with their pocketbooks, has shown that they prefer less frills and lower airfare.

I remember when Alaska Airlines tried to hold out as an airline that offered a bit better service and amenities, while trying to remain reasonably competitive on air fares. They were probably the last major carrier to routinely offer a mean in cabin.

They couldn't maintain their position until they got their fares down to the bottom.  Along the way, many of the frills had to go.


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## BevL (Apr 22, 2010)

ondeadlin said:


> I honestly think wish ALL airlines would do this, at least on short-hop domestic flights. The fact is, with seats now grouped much closer together than originally intended, reclining your seat is often an intrusion on the person behind you. I never recline and know that many high-mileage frequent fliers who feel the same way.



Chalk me up in the yes column for this.  Hubby firmly plants his over six foot framed knees in the back of the seat and basically just disallows the recline.  If anyone complains he simply says, "I need all my space."

We never recline, it's just inconsiderate to the people sitting behind you.


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## rickandcindy23 (Apr 22, 2010)

BevL said:


> We never recline, it's just inconsiderate to the people sitting behind you.



I agree!  I couldn't believe a mom thought her little kids, not even in school yet, needed to recline.  It's selfish, but Rick said it was their right to recline the seats.  I don't care myself, but I won't squish the people behind ME.


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## easyrider (Apr 22, 2010)

I'm usually reclined and asleep on most flights. Ear plugs, eye mask and neck pillow makes it easy. No one has ever asked me to un-recline and I'm not sure that I would feel obligated to so. This is a permitted recline on an engineered airplane design for a normal sized person. Maybe the really tall should be treated like the very fat if they cant fit in the seats.


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## lvhmbh (Apr 22, 2010)

I recline my seat just a tad for easy reading - I'm sure the person behind me doesn't even notice but I still want the recline!  Never flown Spirit and have no intention (don't like that word never) of doing so in the future.  No carry on indeed!


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## ondeadlin (Apr 22, 2010)

I would never ask someone not to recline, but I think people should recognize that now that planes are reconfigured, it's rude to recline. Even a little bit. It's just not fair to the people behind you.


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## lvhmbh (Apr 22, 2010)

Can't agree but I will say that we always upgrade with FF miles to at least Business Class so.........


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## Bruce W (Apr 22, 2010)

easyrider said:


> I'm usually reclined and asleep on most flights. Ear plugs, eye mask and neck pillow makes it easy. No one has ever asked me to un-recline and I'm not sure that I would feel obligated to so. This is a permitted recline on an engineered airplane design for a normal sized person. Maybe the really tall should be treated like the very fat if they cant fit in the seats.



Hoping this does not degenerate, but, I think I take offense to that. We should be classified for something we have no control over, like short people who can't see in the movies, or need a block on the gas pedal? Very narrow minded in my view, and by a recliner who does not give a d...., as long as they are comfortable.


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## easyrider (Apr 22, 2010)

Bruce W said:


> Hoping this does not degenerate, but, I think I take offense to that. We should be classified for something we have no control over, like short people who can't see in the movies, or need a block on the gas pedal? Very narrow minded in my view, and by a recliner who does not give a d...., as long as they are comfortable.



These airplanes are obviously designed for a maximum size by an engineer. Just as we have weight limits on luggage there are size limits on seats. A very overweight person sometimes is required to purchase two tickets as they take up more room than what one seat will provide. Why should this be different with a persons height than it is with their width ?  Why is your right to space more important than mine ? I don't feel this view is narrow minded, greedy or inconsiderate if we are both paying for the same thing and I happen to fit into my seat. 

A tall person does has options to mitigate their situation. They could buy 2 seats as an over weight person does. They could sit at the end next to the isle so they could use the isle for more room. They could upgrade their ticket. OR maybe they should fly on an airline with non-reclining seats.

I will always look for reclining seats so I can sleep on long flights.


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## buffyscrubs (Apr 26, 2010)

Why should this be different with a persons height than it is with their width ? Why is your right to space more important than mine ? I don't feel this view is narrow minded


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## ondeadlin (Apr 26, 2010)

It's not a question of more space, really. If everyone doesn't recline, everyone has the same space.

And I'm not particularly tall (5-10), but what's being discussed here is very different from the situation where you find yourself seated next to a 300-pound person. In that case, the person is usually infringing on the seat area you paid for.

What's going on here is that the person who reclines is infringing on the area of others.


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## PigsDad (Apr 26, 2010)

ondeadlin said:


> What's going on here is that the person who reclines is infringing on the area of others.


When the seats are _*designed *_to recline, how can you possible call it "infringing"?  The person in front of you bought the right to sit in that seat and use its features.

That is as silly as saying that the person behind you doesn't have the right to put his/her feet under your seat!  (and I have run into those wackos on planes as well...)

Simple solution -- if you don't like those coach seats, buy a business or first class seat.  

Kurt

P.S. I'm 6'5" tall, but I would never do a childish thing like stick my knees into the seat in front of me to prevent them from reclining.  If anyone tried that with me, the situation would be correctly quickly via the flight attendant (and I have seen that happen as well).


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## ondeadlin (Apr 26, 2010)

The seats were designed to recline when there was much more space between rows.

As for knees in the back, I've seen situations where men are so big that they have no choice but to do that when a seat is reclined. That's what it's come to. It's not their fault, it's not your fault, it's just the reality of the situation if you recline your seat and the guy behind you is big enough.


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## Patri (Apr 27, 2010)

Really, you purchase the space behind your seat, the few inches it reclines. Likewise, the few inches in front of your face belong to the passenger in front of you. It all comes out the same.


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## wegottago (Apr 27, 2010)

If the seats are meant to recline than how can that be infringing upon the person behind you.  I need to recline the seat for comfort for my back.  Am I to fly in pain for the comfort of the person behind me?  I don't think so.  And yes, I do recline my children's seats.  I too have felt claustrophobic when the person in front of me reclines but I would never tell them to un-recline...that's their right.  I feel sorry for the tall people crammed in these seats but it's the airlines fault for cramming so many seats in the plane in the first place.  I would love for all of us to have more room.  I hate being crammed in that space.


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## BevL (Apr 27, 2010)

PigsDad said:


> When the seats are _*designed *_to recline, how can you possible call it "infringing"?  The person in front of you bought the right to sit in that seat and use its features.
> 
> That is as silly as saying that the person behind you doesn't have the right to put his/her feet under your seat!  (and I have run into those wackos on planes as well...)
> 
> ...



Since I'm (or I guess technically my husband) is the "childish" one who uses his body to keep his space, I feel compelled to comment.  There have been discussions with flight attendants.  However, he simply points out that he is the size he is and he can't, unfortunately, make himself smaller or shorter.  He's doesn't slouch down in his seat,he simply sits with his feet on the floor and his legs at a 90 degree angle at the knees.  That usually ends the discussion pretty quickly actually.

And to agree with you, it's part of the reason we've decided that first class if the way to go.  With his mobility issues, etc., it's almost a necessity for us.  At least for us it's not an issue anymore.


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## T_R_Oglodyte (Apr 27, 2010)

ondeadlin said:


> The seats were designed to recline when there was much more space between rows.


Twenty years ago seats reclined much further than they do now.   As the space between rows has decreased, so has the amount of recline for the seats.  

*******

I am an Alaska Air MVP FF.  So when I fly Alaska or one of its partners, my absolute first preference is aisle seat in the second of two exit rows where there are two exits rows next to each other (such as over the wing).  Because it's an exit row, it has more space and the seat ahead of me does not recline.  Because the row behind is not an exit row, my seat does decline.  As an aisle seat, if a large person is in the seat next to me, I can "spill over" into the aisle if necessary.  It's also very easy to get into and out of the seat.


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## Carol C (May 9, 2010)

Bruce W said:


> Agree here as well,  I am 6'4" wife 5'11", we never recline seats and more often than not have seats laying on our knees, a discussion we have had in the past.




Same thing with me...and I'm 5'11". Oh, and I wonder sometimes why so many petite people manage to get exit row seats...and all *that* legroom!


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## geoand (May 9, 2010)

If a person reclines in front of me, I have no problem with it.  At the same time, that person should have no problem with my knees jammed into the back of that seat.  I don't do it purposely, that is just the way I am built.  I also will not have a problem grabbing the back of the seat in front of me when I need to get up to stretch my legs.  When the seat in front of me is not reclined, my knees do not jam into the seat.  When the seat in front of me is not reclined, then I do not need to use the back of that seat to get up to stretch my legs.  I repeat, this is not a vindictive action, it is the only way I can sit or get up.  The person in front of me has the choice and we both have to deal with it the best we can when the person chooses to recline.


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