# WorldMark Points Types...  Vintage / Age / Etc.



## GrumpyDude (Sep 2, 2017)

Greetings all,

Some time ago I had a discussion going with someone but can't seem to find it or recall with whom or where.

We were talking about my considering the sale of WorldMark points.  I had mentioned that I bought in to them with 6K points when they were relatively new and added through the years to to my current level of 15K.

A question was posed to me that I don't recall the specifics of but suggested that there may have been a different type of point if bought very early in the system.  I got the feeling that these types of points may have a different "value" associated with them but not sure if that was to Wyndham or the resale market.

Does any of that make sense at all?

I had received an offer a few years ago to give them up outright to Wyndham due to little to no utilization.  I didn't bite figuring there had to be at least *some* value to them.  I have been keeping them these past couple of years having gone in with family and a family friend on a DRI purchase and was planning on using them through Club Combinations.  Unfortunately that situation has gone completely sideways and we're pursuing cancellation.

With that being the case, I'm thinking seeking a disposition for the WorldMark and bumping our Marriott to an annual use level is a better option for us as we're fans of the Marriott properties and the MOC in particular.

Our last trip we did the KBC and toured at MOC even though we owned 3,500 MVC points at the time.  Since we weren't sure how the DRI group ownership was panning out at the time, we did the Encore to hold prices and get a relatively inexpensive return.  So in a week we're heading out to use the Encore and added a couple nights to the 5 with our points.  Gotta move halfway through, but whatever!  We're thinking we'll bump to 5K or 5.5K then.


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## bizaro86 (Sep 2, 2017)

The very first worldmark accounts are grandfathered into no housekeeping status. They are very valuable (extra $15k or more in value). If you book a bunch of single night reservations on the website does it charge you for housekeeping? Try that and you'll know.


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## breezez (Sep 2, 2017)

If you search NHK on WMOwners you will see account number ranges that are NHK.

I have one and what you see is you never show HK tokens, unless you cancel a reservation.  Then one will show until credit re-shuffle when it will disappear again.

Since the limitation on credit rentals not too many of these have been listed for sale, 2 that I know of and none of them show they have been sold.   The NHK accounts used to get an 8-12K premium plus standard per credit fee.   Now people are trying to get higher premiums, but their is no sales data to show if it truly has increased.


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## geist1223 (Sep 2, 2017)

As said above the very first 1,000 or so Worldmark Accounts were no House Keeping Accounts. There are still some left around and resell for a premium. Much higher than I was ever willing to pay. Worldmark Points purchased from whatever source (resell or Developer) bought after the No Housekeeping Accounts but before November 20 (?¿), 2006 are WM+A. These can be used for Wyndham Club Pass and WMSP. However upon resell after November 20, 2006 they lose their WM+A Status and become WM Points. WM Points bought resell after November 20, 2006 are always WM Points except for the old No Housekeeping Accounts. Except I do not think they can be used for Wyndham Pass or WMSP. You never pay a Housekeeping charge but I believe they scan only be used at WM Resorts. Points bought on or after November 2006 from the Developer are Travelshare Points if you pay the additional Travelshare Dues. These can be used for Club Pass and WMSP. However upon resell WM Travelshare Points become WM Points.


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## sue1947 (Sep 2, 2017)

geist1223 said:


> Except I do not think they can be used for Wyndham Pass or WMSP. You never pay a Housekeeping charge but I believe they scan only be used at WM Resorts.



Completely wrong.  There are no restrictions on how the Grandfathered aka NHK credits can be used.  They are WM accounts just like any other and the credits can be used like any other account.



> Since the limitation on credit rentals not too many of these have been listed for sale, 2 that I know of and none of them show they have been sold.



Actually, I wouldn't think the restriction on credit rentals would have any impact.  Renting credits into a Grandfathered account creates a mess with rented credits requiring HK tokens even if only 1 ends up in the reservation.  With credits constantly being shuffled, it is difficult to manage and can, and has, resulted in a big bill for HK fees.  This is why many Grandfathered owners keep a second account for rented in credits.

To the OP:  if your account number is less than 2000, you might have one.  Usually, they don't show HK tokens, but sometimes phantom ones show up in my account and then disappear.

Sue


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## GrumpyDude (Sep 3, 2017)

I did some searching on WMOwners and didn't find anything that indicated anything regarding account # ranges.  But I only looked a few pages deep into the 111 pages of results for a search of 'NHK'.  Our original 6K point purchase was in 1997 or 1998 and as I said, we added to it two or three times through the years to get to our 15K.

So Sue, when you mention the account number less than 2000 as it relates to NHK are you referring to the last 4 digits?  Without revealing anything too personally identifiable, my account is 00016004xxx.  My account detail shows...





Kinda looks like not, as it shows housekeepings by year.  But I do see that I have all WM+A credits; never paid attention to that detail before.  I have done a Club Pass exchange before.

So anything look like there's any value beyond basic point resale value?  What's that, somewhere in the 0.30-0.35 range?

I really haven't been following on changes to the system.  What are the limitations on credit rentals?  Is that just pertaining to renting chunks of credits rather than bookings?  Just trying to gauge options with doing something more with this ownership if I don't sell it off or start using it more.


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## rhonda (Sep 3, 2017)

From the info you've provided, I'd agree with your analysis: You do _not_ have a NHK account.  If you resell it, the price will likely be in the 0.30-0.35 range, as you've stated.  Your WM+A points would downgraded to "WM" in the transfer.

Other than selling it, you might consider renting reservations to others if you find a consistent market for the South Pacific properties? (Your account can book South Pacific and I do not recall any restrictions on renting South Pacific reservations.  While you may *book* Club Pass, you may _not_ rent Club Pass reservations.)

Edited:  FWIW, your account originated from sales center #16 (the digits between the 0's in your account number).  I'm guessing all NHK accounts originate from sales center #01.  My WM membership card, on a resale NHK purchased in 2001, says I've been a member since 19*90*.


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## geist1223 (Sep 3, 2017)

A no HKC Account keeps its no HKC status upon resell. I do not know if it keeps its WM+A Status upon resell. I believe you can grow a No HKC Account by transferring into resell Points but you have to insure that the No HKC Account is the surviving Account #.


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## ronparise (Sep 3, 2017)

your credits are worth about about 20-30 cents each , maybe a little more because it is a fully loaded account

You have 15000 credits about to expire,(sept 30)  You could make a reservation about a year out to preserve them. They are worth perhaps $750 to someone if you get the transfer done by the end of the month

i sent you a private message with more detail


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## rhonda (Sep 3, 2017)

sue1947 said:


> Completely wrong.  There are no restrictions on how the Grandfathered aka NHK credits can be used.  They are WM accounts just like any other and the credits can be used like any other account.


I think geist1223 was suggesting that the ability to book WMSP and Wyndham Club Pass will be stripped away in the transfer to another party should the OP sell his account.  I don't think there was dispute that the present account, if retained by the OP, may book WMSP and Club Pass.

Maybe I read it differently ... or incorrectly ... ?


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## sue1947 (Sep 3, 2017)

GrumpyDude said:


> I did some searching on WMOwners and didn't find anything that indicated anything regarding account # ranges.  But I only looked a few pages deep into the 111 pages of results for a search of 'NHK'.  Our original 6K point purchase was in 1997 or 1998 and as I said, we added to it two or three times through the years to get to our 15K.
> 
> So Sue, when you mention the account number less than 2000 as it relates to NHK are you referring to the last 4 digits?  Without revealing anything too personally identifiable, my account is 00016004xxx.  My account detail shows...
> 
> ...



You don't have a NHK account.  They were only sold up through July 1991.   As of 1998, there were only 1500 of them left and more have been eliminated over the years as people sold or defaulted without realizing the value.  
The value of your account for resale purposes is just the standard account.  You can check current prices at wmowners under the Memberships for sale section.  
The BOD added a new limitation to no longer allow HK tokens to transfer between accounts and, more importantly,  allows you to only transfer in or out twice your yearly allotment of credits.   So your 15000 membership can transfer in or out 30000 credits per year.  You have 45000 credits available to use but could only rent out 30000 of them.   
Given that you have 15000 credits that will expire at the end of the month, I strongly suggest you rent those out while you are deciding what to do.   Post them at the credits for rent section of wmowners.  The going rate is around 0.07/credit but that seems to be going up.  So you should get enough to pay your maintenance fees.
If you decide to sell:  check the memberships for sale and analyze whether you want to sell your account with the credits left in the account or if you would rather rent out the 2018 credits as well and only leave the 2019 credits.   The price for resale has a base price for the account and then any additional credits in the account are added at .07/credit.  There is a market for both fully loaded accounts (with all credits) and stripped.  With the restrictions on transferring credits, you can't rent out all your credits so your account will be somewhere in the middle.  
When you transfer, the WM+A credits become WM credits without the ability to book Club Pass so there is no advantage to that type of account unless you sell to a family member.  
To use your WM more fully, you might look at exchanging more.  WM is a strong trader and routinely trades into Marriotts.  Check the Exchanging section in wmowners and you can see what people have been able to trade for.   Hawaii is a frequent destination and while you won't have the Marriott preference, you can still do very well.  
On the other hand, if you aren't using it at all and don't want to, then sell.  It tends to be easier to sell in the summer when people are planning for next year and less easy in the winter. 

Sue


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## ronparise (Sep 3, 2017)

sue1947 said:


> You don't have a NHK account.  They were only sold up through July 1991.   As of 1998, there were only 1500 of them left and more have been eliminated over the years as people sold or defaulted without realizing the value.
> The value of your account for resale purposes is just the standard account.  You can check current prices at wmowners under the Memberships for sale section.
> The BOD added a new limitation to no longer allow HK tokens to transfer between accounts and, more importantly,  allows you to only transfer in or out twice your yearly allotment of credits.   So your 15000 membership can transfer in or out 30000 credits per year.  You have 45000 credits available to use but could only rent out 30000 of them.
> Given that you have 15000 credits that will expire at the end of the month, I strongly suggest you rent those out while you are deciding what to do.   Post them at the credits for rent section of wmowners.  The going rate is around 0.07/credit but that seems to be going up.  So you should get enough to pay your maintenance fees.
> ...



The 15000 credits that expire at the end of this month probably wont go for as much as the ones that are a year or two from expiration.


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