# Need Hugs, Incense, Prayers, Chocolate - whatever works



## pjrose (Aug 25, 2011)

My 19 y/o DD is a full-time student, living at home, and has serious anger and impulsivity issues as well as a cardio-vascular condition that leads to fainting. 

She is on the run with no meds and not a whit of common sense.  

Last weekend she got angry about something, got onto online dating, told guys she was kicked out of the house, and was on the run for four days.  She was eventually removed from a bad situation and ended up in an ER; Crisis talked about putting her in an inpatient program, but it was denied so we took her home.  

Then the next day (yesterday) she fainted and was in another ER.  Tonight she got back onto online dating, got angry with us, and ran away again.  We didn't try to argue with her; she seems determined to self-destruct and needs more help than we can give her.  She is being "rescued" by random online guys. Please send good thoughts in whatever way fits your belief system.  

   

PJ


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## Talent312 (Aug 25, 2011)

Geesh!
Lots of {{HUGS}}... and if I may be so bold as to suggest:
A casserole-sized bowl of chocolate ice cream.


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## Sandi Bo (Aug 25, 2011)

Sending thoughts, prayers, and virtual hugs your way.


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## MommaBear (Aug 25, 2011)

I am so sorry to hear of your troubles. There is nothing worse than a mother's heatbreak over a child she cannot keep safe and well. (I know from experience) My prayers and thoughts are for all of you.


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## irish (Aug 25, 2011)

my thoughts and prayers today for you and your family


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## Zac495 (Aug 25, 2011)

Oh my gosh. Lots of love and prayers. Please let us know how things are going.
Love,
Ellen


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## pgnewarkboy (Aug 25, 2011)

Over the several years I have been posting on Tug I have read your posts about your daughter. The true picture of the situation takes time to develop. Nobody could at first understand the torment you have been suffering. I truly believe you have the inner strength to deal with the latest situation. I am confident that "time and love" will be the cure.


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## Dori (Aug 25, 2011)

My heart goes out to you. The anguish we feel as parents is enormous, when we have to watch as our children make poor, and often dangerous choices. I hope and pray that your daughter quickly realizes that her recent behaviour is not the answer. Hugs coming your way.

Dori


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## chellej (Aug 25, 2011)

PJ

I am so sorry for your heartbreak, I sympathsize as we have had several years of ups and downs with our DD and we really thought for a while we were going to lose her and felt so helpless at not being able to help her from self destructing.

Several things to note,  She had severe reactions to several medications that were supposed to help but actually made it much worse. 

Lyrica, Cymbalta and YAZ birth control. (She has RSD, a chornic pain condition in her knee as the result of surgery).   My Niece also had a very bad reaction to YAZ.

Hang in there.. my DD is now almost 23 and I am picking her up today from a 3 month internship in New Zealand.... it has taken a lot of really low downs but we think she is finally herself again.... a year ago she would not have been able to do the intership...She would not have had the ability to live in small quarters witth 2 other girls without either imploding or exploding.

I will say a prayer

Chelle


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## Cathyb (Aug 25, 2011)

*Hugs and a suggestion*



pjrose said:


> My 19 y/o DD is a full-time student, living at home, and has serious anger and impulsivity issues as well as a cardio-vascular condition that leads to fainting.
> 
> She is on the run with no meds and not a whit of common sense.
> 
> ...



I feel for you and send prayers and hugs!  It seems that online dating is one of the problems -- could you secure the computer where she couldn't use it or at least not be able to sign on to those programs???

Have you thought of a family Intervention?  We had one for our daughter (alcohol) and she agreed to go to a rehab place and it took a few years but she is now alcohol free for 7 years.


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## laura1957 (Aug 25, 2011)

I am so sorry to hear of your latest troubles   I have been thru a lot of it with my younger daughter.  

   At 16 I didnt know where she was for 3 days and that was torture.  Kicked out of HS, angry, depressed... Has been on anti-seizure medication since she was 13.  Today, at 21, she is my sweet girl again, but from 14 - 18 she was a completely different person!!   She has changed her medication, gotten her GED, babysits for her sisters children fulltime, and told my older sister just last week that she knows she put her mom and stepdad, and her father thru hell and wished she could take it all back.   

   Sending prayers and thoughts your way.  Thoughts, prayers and time all do wonders!!    

ps - and I also went thru an awful lot of chocolate ice cream during that bad time


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## Passepartout (Aug 25, 2011)

Gosh, PJ, what a challenge! Wishing you chocolate, hugs, and especially, peace.

Added: DW says since she is an adult, guardianship is your only option if you wish it. You both are in our hearts and thoughts.

Jim Ricks


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## ace2000 (Aug 25, 2011)

PJRose, you're one of the few people that post on TUG that I consistently enjoy reading.  I appreciate all that you offer TUG.  

I wish you the very best outcome possible for your current situation and I'll say a prayer for you and your daughter.


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## Patri (Aug 25, 2011)

PJ, I feel for you. You are a good parent. We're running into some trouble this summer too with our teen, so I can relate. None of us are perfect but we all do our best. I hope you don't go through too much anguish. There is unconditional forever love which you have, but there is also a line when you can do no more.


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## Rose Pink (Aug 25, 2011)

MommaBear said:


> I am so sorry to hear of your troubles.* There is nothing worse than a mother's heatbreak over a child she cannot keep safe and well.* (I know from experience) My prayers and thoughts are for all of you.


Amen!



Patri said:


> PJ, I feel for you. You are a good parent. We're running into some trouble this summer too with our teen, so I can relate. None of us are perfect but we all do our best. I hope you don't go through too much anguish. *There is unconditional forever love which you have, but there is also a line when you can do no more*.


Amen and amen.

Hugs to you PJ.  I pray for your peace and solace as you learn to let go.

Fellow tuggers, PJ and her husband have been valiant in their efforts to help their daughter and keep her safe.  They have truly done all they can do.  The DD has access to computers away from home.  That is all I will say but please know that the parents have not been neglectful in any way whatsoever.


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## SueDonJ (Aug 25, 2011)

Oh PJ, how frightening.  All good thoughts for you and your daughter and the rest of the family ...


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## pjrose (Aug 25, 2011)

Cathyb said:


> I feel for you and send prayers and hugs!  It seems that online dating is one of the problems -- could you secure the computer where she couldn't use it or at least not be able to sign on to those programs???



We've done that.  It worked for awhile and she was compliant, but more recently she used school computers to set it up again.  She is very rebellious. 



Cathyb said:


> Have you thought of a family Intervention?  We had one for our daughter (alcohol) and she agreed to go to a rehab place and it took a few years but she is now alcohol free for 7 years.



That sounds like a good idea.  I don't know how that works.


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## DeniseM (Aug 25, 2011)

PJ - You must be incredibly frustrated!  

You will get through this - no one can stay an angry teenager forever!

Hang in there!


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## Rose Pink (Aug 25, 2011)

pjrose said:


> That sounds like a good idea.  I don't know how that works.


You need to get the whole family together--at least the ones she cares about--and maybe her best friends, to meet with her and tell her of your concerns.  You and DH have done that many, many times.  If she is agreeable, you _immediately_ take her to an in-patient facility that you have pre-arranged will admit her.  However, she still can check herself out.


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## ricoba (Aug 25, 2011)

As the dad of a 19 year old daughter, I can only imagine how frightening this  must be for you.  You and your family are in my thoughts and prayers.


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## Pat H (Aug 25, 2011)

I can't imagine a worse nightmare for a parent. I have no advice, just hugs and prayers.

Although a little different, I saw my step-nephew become completely debilitated by schizophrania. He was a handsome, intelligent, social and delightful young man. The disease has taken a terrible toll on him and his family. One of the big problems is that he goes through periods where he won't take his meds.


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## am1 (Aug 25, 2011)

I wish you and your family all the best. It is quite likely she grows out of this but somehow you have to make sure that she is staying safe.  In 2 months, a year or 5 years she may be completely over this but babies and diseases last a lifetime.  

The guys see are meeting online that would want to get involved in this situation probably would not make suitable fathers or be responsible in their previous choices.  

Is it also possible that she is just making a lot of this stuff up?


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## BevL (Aug 25, 2011)

Been there, done that.  Keep yourself well and healthy, eat and sleep as you can, you need to keep your strength up to deal with this.

For us, basically making sure our daughter was as safe as we could keep her, but still outside the home until there were some changes, seemed to be the turning point.  But I certainly don't suggest that every situation is the same.  There were drugs involved in her life at the time.  Good news is she DID turn the corner and is now a fantastic mom to our little two year old as her and her new husband forge ahead together.  Light at the end of the tunnel - and it's not always another train!!

Just know we are thinking of you.

Bev


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## Fern Modena (Aug 25, 2011)

PJ, Know that my heart goes out to you.  There isn't much I can say, unfortunately, that will help.  I wish there was.  Take care of yourself, that's very important.  

Unfortunately you can't change her, she has to want to change.  Its not "your fault," she is old enough to be making her own decisions, good or bad.  I know you love your daughter, even if at times you don't like her actions.  

And remember, most of all, there is always HOPE for a brighter future.

{{{ HUGS }}}

Fern


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## Liz Wolf-Spada (Aug 25, 2011)

PJ - prayers for her safety and healing and your peace of mind.
Liz


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## neash (Aug 25, 2011)

PJ - I have also read your posts about your issues with your daughter over the years. My heart goes out to you and her. Prayers for her safety and well being.


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## Rose Pink (Aug 25, 2011)

am1 said:


> I wish you and your family all the best. It is quite likely she grows out of this but somehow *you have to make sure that she is staying safe.  In 2 months, a year or 5 years she may be completely over this but babies and diseases last a lifetime*.
> 
> The guys see are meeting online that would want to get involved in this situation probably would not make suitable fathers or be responsible in their previous choices.
> 
> *Is it also possible that she is just making a lot of this stuff up*?


 
I'm feeling a little protective of PJ at the moment.  Just so our fellow tuggers are aware, PJ and her DH have bent over backward to try to make sure their much-loved daughter is protected and safe.  They have had the talks with her about babies, etc etc etc.  They have sought out help from the medical community and other sources. They have done all that can be done.

The daughter is as PJ explained in the OP.  She refuses to display what most people would call common sense despite, or in spite, of all her parents and others have tried to tell her.

PJ and her DH are beside themselves with worry and grief and have been for a long time.  This past week has been torture for them.  

And, no, the daughter is not making this up.  PJ has been with her DD in the ER--and that was not made up.

The daughter is 19, so legally an adult, but without the emotional skills of an adult.  She is otherwise a beautiful, sweet, kind, funny and wonderful person but in some areas, she just won't listen to reason.  And she is in danger because of it.


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## Jaybee (Aug 25, 2011)

PJ...I, too, feel your pain, frustration, and grief over your daughter's problems. I went through similar experiences with my older daughter, from the time she was 13. She was DX'd as Bi-Polar, but I'm sure she was schizophrenic, also.
Her behavior was unbelievable, to anyone who hadn't witnessed it, and I hate to hear of anyone going through that pain and confusion, and helplessness.

It seems that you do understand when you need to walk away, at least temporarily, and know what you can't control.  My prayers are with you, and your family.  Hugs... Jean


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## pjrose (Aug 25, 2011)

am1 said:


> Is it also possible that she is just making a lot of this stuff up?



She exaggerates everything - everything is a crisis.  Always has.  She is making up the story of being kicked out of the house and needs a place to stay.  She is not making up the cardio-vascular condition, mental health issues, online dating, or running away - that is all real. Rose Pink noted that we've been in the ER with her - it's been more than thirty times!  



Fern Modena said:


> Unfortunately you can't change her, she has to want to change.



True, but she doesn't have the best "wiring".  She has tunnel vision, wants what she wants when she wants it.  A few hours before she flipped, she wanted to buy new scrubs for school and her upcoming externship.  No good sense of self, limits, or consequences.  Moods go back and forth when under stress or not on meds.


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## pjrose (Aug 25, 2011)

Rose Pink said:


> I'm feeling a little protective of PJ at the moment.  . . .
> 
> The daughter is 19, so legally an adult, but without the emotional skills of an adult.  She is otherwise a beautiful, sweet, kind, funny and wonderful person but in some areas, she just won't listen to reason.  And she is in danger because of it.



Awww, thanks "sis".  TUGgers, Rose Pink and I have been in communication outside of TUG for quite awhile.  She has been a lifeline for me.  {HUGS}


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## Twinkstarr (Aug 25, 2011)

Rose Pink said:


> You need to get the whole family together--at least the ones she cares about--and maybe her best friends, to meet with her and tell her of your concerns.  You and DH have done that many, many times.  If she is agreeable, you _immediately_ take her to an in-patient facility that you have pre-arranged will admit her.  However, she still can check herself out.



Rose Pink that is a great idea. 

PJ-my thoughts are with you and your DH.


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## puppymommo (Aug 25, 2011)

Dealing with a loved one who has mental health issues/mental illness is incredibly stressful and can be heartbreaking, especially if the person is not taking their meds.

None of us really knows what PJ and her family are going through, but we can send them our compassion, our concern, our prayers and our support.

DH has schizophrenia and alcoholism.  Fortunately he takes is medication faithfully. Except when he forgets to order/pick up his refills. Last time that happened, he didn't take his meds for 3 days and started hearing voices again.

As for alcoholism, he has fallen off the wagon 3 times in the past 10 years.  The latest came to light just a few weeks ago when I noticed a six-pack of beer in the bottom drawer of the refridgerator.  He didn't think I'd notice it?  In the past when he's started drinking he has hidden it.  When confronted he agreed to quit.  

So, PJ and family, you have my compassion and support.  You daughter sounds like an amazing person.  I hope and pray that some day (soon) she will be able to accept the help she needs.  Even so, this is likely to be a life-long struggle for her.  For you.

Hang in there. You are NOT alone.


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## Rose Pink (Aug 25, 2011)

Twinkstarr said:


> Rose Pink that is a great idea.


Not my idea, Twinkstarr.  It was Cathyb's idea. And is a good one if the DD will accept the intervention.



Cathyb said:


> Have you thought of a family Intervention?  We had one for our daughter (alcohol) and she agreed to go to a rehab place and it took a few years but she is now alcohol free for 7 years.


 


pjrose said:


> That sounds like a good idea.  I don't know how that works.


 
I only responded to PJ's question about how intervention works.



Rose Pink said:


> You need to get the whole family together--at least the ones she cares about--and maybe her best friends, to meet with her and tell her of your concerns.  You and DH have done that many, many times.  If she is agreeable, you _immediately_ take her to an in-patient facility that you have pre-arranged will admit her.  However, she still can check herself out.


 
Frankly, at this point, I don't think it _will _work.  It's not like PJ and her husband have not already tried.  They've had their daughter in counseling for quite some time.  And they did try to get her admitted a few days ago but the crisis center refused to agree to it.  So, now their daughter is out running amok again.  Let's just hope, pray and send good thoughts that she will live to come home again.


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## Thomfam (Aug 25, 2011)

I will be praying for you and your family. I'm sure you have done everything possible for your dd and don't need my advice. So I'm sending prayers, hugs and compassion. Hopefully, all the love and compassion you are receiving from your Tug friends will give you some strength to help your daughter and peace knowing you are doing all you can.


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## Kay H (Aug 25, 2011)

This is a sad situation for the whole family.  Try, try, try to no avail.  I'll add your family to my prayer list and hope that no harm comes to her and that things turn around soon. This must be frightening to you.


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## jackio (Aug 25, 2011)

I pray for your daughter's safety, and I hope she is safely home soon.  You can only do what you can do; that is the heartache.  I wish you peace during this incredibly difficult time.  Best of luck. - Jacki


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## pjrose (Aug 25, 2011)

*thanks to all*

Thanks all.  Keep those good vibes going.  She has a lot going for her.  

And to those with kids and other relatives with MH issues, oh boy what you've gone through.  She certainly needs a thorough evaluation and serious counseling and med changes.....it's gonna be hard.

Meanwhile, DH and I have to face reality of our jobs and life; we can barely function but have to force ourselves to.  

I don't recommend this weight-loss program, but I have lost about 7 lbs.  

PJ


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## Carol C (Aug 25, 2011)

You're in my thoughts and prayers. I was once a very unruly teen, set loose in public school after 8 years of being raised by nuns most of the year. I got my crap together when I realized that I'd never make it into college if my grades kept going down due to bad conduct, suspensions, etc. I realize your DD might be out of high school but is she ambitious, does she want to go to college? Maybe someone in mentoring with an eye on college prep could have a heart to heart with her. Again, your wonderful family is in my thoughts and prayers.


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## pjrose (Aug 25, 2011)

She is attending a technical school full-time for an Associate's degree in a medical field, works hard and has great grades, (potentially) starting in an EMT program next week, and has several volunteer positions.  She is very goal oriented except when she gets off-track.

Many/most of the technical students are on their own, often with babies (DD has a strong baby wish  ).  She sees the other students being independent without mommy and daddy and she wants the same.  She knows - but doesn't seem to connect with - the reality that they are juggling jobs, school, kid(s), and finances, can't afford to buy gas for the car, can't afford the school books, don't have medical insurance or time off if their child gets sick, etc etc. 

When she is stressed or something goes wrong her "wiring" (or chemicals, hormones, whatever) turn this lovely girl into an angry impulsive person who makes terrible decisions.  

Obviously the current meds and counseling aren't enough.  We know she needs more treatment - just hope she gets it and agrees to work with it.


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## akp (Aug 25, 2011)

*PJ*

I'm so sorry for what you're going through!

I find it so interesting that I wouldn't know a single one of you if I saw you on the street, but I feel so strongly for you when in trouble.  Quite the little community we have here...

Anita


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## JudyH (Aug 25, 2011)

I work with kids and parents a liked  all you guys.  I don't know how you get the strenght you have.  I've done this 25 years now, and have seen a lot of young people finally get it right.  Don't give up.

A lot of parents like this book.


Augusta, Gone: A True Story by Martha Tod Dudman


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## pjrose (Aug 25, 2011)

*She is Safe!!!!!*

A young man close to her age whom she "met" online called me; he picked her up from wherever she had been last night, brought her close to home, they met us, we gave her meds for a few days and made her take today's, and made a point of the birth-control pill ("You don't want to pay child support do you?"  "No Ma'am!").  

We were quite impressed with him calling us, we know his name, where he lives, etc. 

She seemed ok, and promises to be in touch, come back in a day or so, and go back to school on Monday.  

We know there's a lot of hard work ahead and more bumps in the road.  I don't think she understands yet that SHE will have to work on managing her condition(s) if she's to have a stable future.  However I'm feeling a heck of a lot better than I did before.  

I felt a lot of comfort from all the prayers and other good Karma AND chocolate, and it helped to hear from those of you who have been through difficult times with your loved ones.  

Anita is right-on with the post below; yes, the TUG Lounge group is a great bunch of people! 



akp said:


> *I find it so interesting that I wouldn't know a single one of you if I saw you on the street, but I feel so strongly for you when in trouble.  Quite the little community we have here...
> *
> Anita


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## Htoo0 (Aug 25, 2011)

Hope things continue to get better.


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## Sandi Bo (Aug 25, 2011)

So glad to hear your daughter is safe.  It does sound like she has a lot going for her, and she has your unconditional love and support. I bet you sleep good tonight.  Hang in there.


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## suesam (Aug 25, 2011)

Praying for you and your family PJ. Keep up the good fight! They are worth it! 

Sue


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## MuranoJo (Aug 25, 2011)

PJ,
I agree with others who say there is light at the end of the tunnel, and this will turn around.  She must have wanted to connect with you, to let you know she was alright, so that's a good sign.  And her new friend must have wanted to help or encourage her.

Continue to hang in there, as I know you've been doing for some time.


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## SueDonJ (Aug 25, 2011)

I'm glad to see your update, PJ, and hope for continued good news for all of you.  I think it's safe to say that Anita put into words what many of us are thinking - probably all of us on this thread have spent many minutes thinking of you today.  Hope you and your husband can manage to catch up on some sleep tonight ...


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## Rose Pink (Aug 26, 2011)

yay!  Hope this time is the last time you have to go through this.


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## pjrose (Aug 26, 2011)

*She is out again*

Unfortunately, she is determined to stay out.  She went to dinner with a friend she's known since second grade, lied that we were going to pick her up after dinner when we were expecting the friend's dad to drive her home as he always does, and is on the run again.  

She is going to do what she's going to do.  It is out of our hands.  She has meds for a few days (though I doubt she'll take them), and a cell phone and charger.  I won't cut her off from the phone plan.


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## Htoo0 (Aug 26, 2011)

You do what you can and that's about all you can do. Still hope it works out OK.


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## Liz Wolf-Spada (Aug 27, 2011)

PJ still praying for her well being and your peace of mind. At least you did get to see her and know she is safe. I think having her keep her phone is a good idea.
Liz


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## DeniseM (Aug 27, 2011)

PJ - What would happen if you did cut off her cell phone service?  Wouldn't that shut her down to a certain extent?  I am sure you don't want to because you want her to be able to call you, but on the other hand, the cell phone might be enabling her.  Or maybe you could cut off her internet access on the phone?


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## pjrose (Aug 27, 2011)

DeniseM said:


> PJ - What would happen if you did cut off her cell phone service?  Wouldn't that shut her down to a certain extent?  I am sure you don't want to because you want her to be able to call you, but on the other hand, the cell phone might be enabling her.  Or maybe you could cut off her internet access on the phone?



We've debated whether the cell is enabling her....but it's also a safety line and call record.  She does not have internet access.


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## ondeadlin (Aug 27, 2011)

I'm not suggesting this course of action, because I don't know enough about the situation to offer advice, but I'm curious what do you think would happen if you simply put her out of the house entirely and told her to make her own way in life.  Is she capable of that?  How would she react?


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## pjrose (Aug 27, 2011)

ondeadlin said:


> I'm not suggesting this course of action, because I don't know enough about the situation to offer advice, but I'm curious what do you think would happen if you simply put her out of the house entirely and told her to make her own way in life.  Is she capable of that?  How would she react?



She isn't capable.  She thinks she is, but she isn't.  She needs meds for psychological conditions and the cardio-vascular issue.  They weren't working well to help her with her stresses and anger anyway, as she had been getting worse and worse in those ways.  Without them, she ended up in the ER two nights in a row.


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## Zac495 (Aug 28, 2011)

PJ - So glad to read your update. I can't imagine what you guys are going through. 
Love,
Ellen


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## pjrose (Aug 28, 2011)

Zac495 said:


> PJ - So glad to read your update. I can't imagine what you guys are going through.
> Love,
> Ellen



Ellen, I know you've been through terrible times too.  Your openness of posting here and getting moral support and suggestions is part of why I did.  

The latest is a plan to come home today, go back to some classes tomorrow but drop others, promise to take meds and see counselor, continue to try to get PT job.  We shall see.  Sounds ok till the next blow-up.  Also have to stop the online-dating addiction/thrill and texting people "met" online.  That'll be a hard one to convey.  She sees others doing it, but doesn't get that you have to be responsible about it - public places only, no personal info for example.  

I'm not placing bets either way.


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## GregT (Aug 28, 2011)

PJ,

I came over to the TUG lounge to post a question on an electric BBQ and after seeing your thread, my question doesn't really seem that important any more.   I'm so sorry to hear about these tough days with your daughter.

I'll be praying and sending best wishes for your daughter and your family -- she is very lucky that you have been so strong for her and I believe one day she will realize that.  

Best wishes to you these days,

Greg


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## glypnirsgirl (Aug 28, 2011)

This is heartbreaking for a parent to deal with. And there are no right answers. You never know if the choices that you make are the right ones. 

My son is emotionally disturbed and low IQ. He went through a period of time when he moved out of our home to go and live with a family of drugdealers in a flophouse motel. 

The strange thing to me was that he continued to get up and go to school every day. He still did his school work. At the end of the day, he would go to the flophouse motel instead of coming home.

I believe that they were willing to let him stay because he still had his truck and a phone. The drug dealing family did not have transportation. The drug buyers would come to the flophouse motel to make their deals. 

My dad was furious with me for letting him stay there. But I did. For about 4 months. The Monday after Easter, I went to his school to eat lunch with him. I asked him to come home. I asked him what he had been eating. He told me that he had had a sandwich with old bologna and moldy bread for dinner the night before. He still wanted to stay at the flophouse motel. 

After another week or two, I took away his truck. I had bought it. The title was in my name. And I had a spare set of keys to it. I had one of my friends drive me to the motel and I just drove off in it. 

He called to see if I had taken it and I told him that I had and that I was keeping it until he came back home. (The reason that I had not taken it before was because he could not get back and forth to school without it). He came home shortly thereafter.

I know that part of the reason that I let him stay there was that I was exhausted from dealing with him. I knew where he was. And although I did not consider the place to be "safe," knowing where he was was sifficient for that time. 

I am NOT suggesting that you do the same thing: your child has medical problems that mine did not and she is a young woman. 

Jordan's story has a happy ending. He is now married to a lovely young woman, he is working at a full time job with benefits at an excellent employer. It is truly miraculous that he is where he is now.

I hope that your daughter's story has a happy ending, too.

elaine


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## neash (Aug 28, 2011)

glypnirsgirl said:


> Jordan's story has a happy ending. He is now married to a lovely young woman, he is working at a full time job with benefits at an excellent employer. It is truly miraculous that he is where he is now.
> 
> I hope that your daughter's story has a happy ending, too.
> 
> elaine



Elaine, your post is one of the reasons why I want the "like" button on TUG. 
It must have been the longest 4-5 months of your life yet you hung in there. 

PJ, I sincerely hope and pray that your family has a happy ending too, you deserve it.


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## LLW (Aug 29, 2011)

pjrose said:


> Ellen, I know you've been through terrible times too.  Your openness of posting here and getting moral support and suggestions is part of why I did.
> 
> The latest is a plan to come home today, go back to some classes tomorrow but drop others, promise to take meds and see counselor, continue to try to get PT job.  We shall see.  Sounds ok till the next blow-up.  Also have to stop the online-dating addiction/thrill and texting people "met" online.  That'll be a hard one to convey.  She sees others doing it, but doesn't get that you have to be responsible about it - public places only, no personal info for example.
> 
> I'm not placing bets either way.



pj,

I am praying, with heart incense and tears, that your daughter will be strong, one second and one step at a time, in passing through this valley. She will be strong, because you and your husband are strong by her side, supporting her, one step at a time. God bless.


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## pjrose (Aug 29, 2011)

She didn't come back yesterday as hoped.  I'm not surprised.

She is so darn mixed up - she has always wanted immediate gratification; "no" and "wait" provoked rages.  Her school and her planned EMT class were taking too long.  Well now that she isn't doing the classes, it'll take even longer, if she does them at all.  If she comes back or ends up in a hospital and somehow is helped to get stable.


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## jackio (Aug 29, 2011)

pjrose said:


> She didn't come back yesterday as hoped.  I'm not surprised.
> 
> She is so darn mixed up - she has always wanted immediate gratification; "no" and "wait" provoked rages.  Her school and her planned EMT class were taking too long.  Well now that she isn't doing the classes, it'll take even longer, if she does them at all.  If she comes back or ends up in a hospital and somehow is helped to get stable.



I'm so sorry to hear this news.  I will continue praying.  Please keep us updated - Jacki


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## Zac495 (Aug 29, 2011)

pjrose said:


> Ellen, I know you've been through terrible times too.  Your openness of posting here and getting moral support and suggestions is part of why I did.
> 
> The latest is a plan to come home today, go back to some classes tomorrow but drop others, promise to take meds and see counselor, continue to try to get PT job.  We shall see.  Sounds ok till the next blow-up.  Also have to stop the online-dating addiction/thrill and texting people "met" online.  That'll be a hard one to convey.  She sees others doing it, but doesn't get that you have to be responsible about it - public places only, no personal info for example.
> 
> I'm not placing bets either way.



Thanks PJ - and  I'm SO sorry she didn't come home!!! 
HANG IN because you're a great mom and things will get better - and maybe then worse - and then better. What a hard job- being a mom - to our kids regardless of their situations.

LOVE TO YOU


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## pjrose (Aug 30, 2011)

Ended up in ER this AM due to assault, time in ER, time with police, now home sleeping.  

Hope the assault was a lesson learned, but I'm not optimistic about that. Still need chocolate, hugs, karma, prayers, incense, etc.  I do have two purry kitties - they have been a great help.


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## SueDonJ (Aug 30, 2011)

PJ, I can't even find words to try to help you.  Continued good thoughts for all of you ...


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## Rose Pink (Aug 30, 2011)

pjrose said:


> Ended up in ER this AM due to assault, time in ER, time with police, now home sleeping.
> 
> Hope the assault was a lesson learned, but I'm not optimistic about that. Still need chocolate, hugs, karma, prayers, incense, etc.  I do have two purry kitties - they have been a great help.


 
She didn't learn from the previous assaults and I doubt she'll learn this time.  I don't know if she can.  It is the medical authorities--who should know better--that are not doing their job. What is wrong with these people!?


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## pjrose (Aug 30, 2011)

Rose Pink said:


> She didn't learn from the previous assaults and I doubt she'll learn this time.  I don't know if she can.  It is the medical authorities--who should know better--that are not doing their job. What is wrong with these people!?



I don't want to go too far with this, but my BFF Rose Pink refers to the fact that there are more complicated issues than just behavior.....

And what's wrong is the complexity of some of the laws regarding people over 18.


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## jackio (Aug 30, 2011)

pjrose said:


> Ended up in ER this AM due to assault, time in ER, time with police, now home sleeping.
> 
> Hope the assault was a lesson learned, but I'm not optimistic about that. Still need chocolate, hugs, karma, prayers, incense, etc.  I do have two purry kitties - they have been a great help.



I'm sorry to hear this news.  Thank goodness she is safe at home.  Best of wishes being sent your way...


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## Thomfam (Aug 30, 2011)

Sending you a hug and will continue to keep your family in our prayers. 

Patti


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## MommaBear (Aug 30, 2011)

The laws governing those over 18 and even under 18 are incredibly frustrating. In Maine, you cannot compel anyone 16 or over to live in your house, but you are responsible for all their behaviors until they are 18. So, even though you do not know where they are or what they are doing, you are still responsible. Over 18, if the person can state what might happen if they do XYZ, you cannot get guardianship over them becuase the law states they are aware of the possible consequences of their actions and therefore are entitled to make bad decisions. Getting any kind of conservatorship is extemely difficult.

I certainly do not know the details of your daughter's case, pjrose, so am not judging in any way except to understand how tough this is on you. If you have not had the chance yet, I would recommend consulting a family law attorney who may be able to guide you in seeing some kind of legal oversight of your daughter. Sometimes it is the language that the medical professionals use that helps or hinders in getting the oversight. 

I am lucky to work in an ED that has behavioral health consultants on call 24/7 who can come in and evaluate a patient for us and can help us with management of the patient. For many of our patients we have care plans that we activate when they are brought to the hospital. Some have guardians, some do not. 

Meanwhile, take care of yourself. I find chocolate, exercise and crying all to be great stress relievers. My husband and I took many long walks together when we were going through the worst times with our daughter. I was lucky to have both family and friends who were incredibly supportive and non-judgemental and a counselor who was worth her weight in gold.

All the best to you, your daughter and your family.


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## vacationhopeful (Aug 30, 2011)

MommaBear said:


> ...I certainly do not know the details of your daughter's case, pjrose, so am not judging in any way except to understand how tough this is on you. If you have not had the chance yet, I would recommend consulting a family law attorney who may be able to guide you in seeing some kind of legal oversight of your daughter. Sometimes it is the language that the medical professionals use that helps or hinders in getting the oversight...



You expressed my thoughts exactly. A lawyer looks at this info very differntly. 

And you might need to get her on Social Security Disablility - *her benefits ($) would be based on her parent's benefit if under age 25* ... would make a world of difference in her income level IF she can NOT get her act together ever.  

This may not be a case of her growing up; rather a case that she is unable to be self-sufficient and independant.


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## Egret1986 (Aug 30, 2011)

*You and your family are in my thoughts and prayers*

I can't imagine what this must be like, to do all that you possibly can and it's still not enough to "fix" things.  

I hope sharing with your TUG family helps provide some relief.

Best wishes and prayers for your ongoing struggles.


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## glypnirsgirl (Aug 31, 2011)

vacationhopeful said:


> You expressed my thoughts exactly. A lawyer looks at this info very differntly.
> 
> And you might need to get her on Social Security Disablility - *her benefits ($) would be based on her parent's benefit if under age 25* ... would make a world of difference in her income level IF she can NOT get her act together ever.
> 
> This may not be a case of her growing up; rather a case that she is unable to be self-sufficient and independant.



I second this suggestion. 

I refused to do this for Jordan when he was younger out of concern that he would get "labelled." I wish that I had chosen differently.

elaine


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## suesam (Aug 31, 2011)

Pj-
Can't imagine the stress you are feeling.....make sure to TRY to take care of yourself. Veggies, vitamins, exercise. Stress is a nasty thing for our bodies. Gotta stay strong to make it through........

Keep up the good fight. Saying a prayer for you and your family. 

Sue


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## sail27bill (Aug 31, 2011)

Pjrose--Best wishes to you and your family in these trying times.  Will add your daughter to my prayer list.  Hopefully today will be a brighter day.

Anita


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## DeniseM (Aug 31, 2011)

glypnirsgirl said:


> I second this suggestion.
> 
> I refused to do this for Jordan when he was younger out of concern that he would get "labelled." I wish that I had chosen differently.
> 
> elaine




What is the process for applying for Social Security?  I need to look into this for my 23 year old with Aspergers Syndrome before he ages off our health insurance.

THANKS!


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## vacationhopeful (Aug 31, 2011)

DeniseM said:


> What is the process for applying for Social Security?  I need to look into this for my 23 year old with Aspergers Syndrome before he ages off our health insurance.
> 
> THANKS!



You need to RUN and get him on Social Security Disablility .... BEFORE his 25th birthday. The difference is his lifetime grant would be based on HIS PARENTS contribution to social security verses his almost ZERO basis. He would be on SSI (about $300+ monthly). Look at your yearly statement to find WHAT your disablitiy benefit would be ... SSI would have him at food banks, clothes from Goodwill, no cable TV, .... very poor.


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## Mel (Aug 31, 2011)

pjrose said:


> I don't want to go too far with this, but my BFF Rose Pink refers to the fact that there are more complicated issues than just behavior.....
> 
> And what's wrong is the complexity of some of the laws regarding people over 18.


Hugs being sent your way, from one who remembers some of the complications from 3 years ago.  While we both know she probably won't learn from this experience, we also know that she could - we just have to hope this is the time she is ready to learn.  She has to learn for herself, in her own way, as much as it hurts you to watch.  Rest assured we are all here for you, as you are for her.

If you do try to have her evaluated in terms of guardianship, make sure they do it when she's off her meds.  It is such a struggle when the meds work well, because it gives them that false sense that they no longer need them, but when they stop taking them they lose the ability to recognize how bad it gets.  For some there is no such thing as "common sense."


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## pjrose (Sep 2, 2011)

She's been back home - sort of - for a few days, but is almost always on online dating sites and then going out with whoever.  It's an addiction, but she sees only the flattery and fun aspects. 

I found a lot of sites that discuss the addiction; this one fits, especially under the Impact on Women heading:
http://www.surviving-abuse.com/internet-dating.html

She has been giving us some info (e.g., phone, name, online site username) of her dates so at least that's something.  She's continuing with one class b/c it is a prereq for classes next term, but has dropped all others.  She is continuing with one volunteer position. 

We don't like the behavior, but I don't want her to hit the street again and she is taking her meds so we're tolerating it. However, we've also told her that she needs to apply for jobs so she can get her own place.  She's put out a few applications, but must do a lot more. 

Still very stressed.


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## Rose Pink (Sep 2, 2011)

pjrose said:


> She's been back home - sort of - for a few days, but is almost always on online dating sites and then going out with whoever.*  It's an addiction,* but she sees only the flattery and fun aspects.


My DD told me I was addicted to TUG.


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## pjrose (Sep 2, 2011)

Rose Pink said:


> My DD told me I was addicted to TUG.



But TUG isn't dangerous....even with a timeshare addiction, TUGgers know to look for resale.


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## Zac495 (Sep 2, 2011)

pjrose said:


> But TUG isn't dangerous....even with a timeshare addiction, TUGgers know to look for resale.



HAHA!!!!! Glad she's home. I'm thinking of you.


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## pjrose (Sep 2, 2011)

Zac495 said:


> HAHA!!!!! Glad she's home. I'm thinking of you.



Home for a few days as in not on the run, but still going out with guys she has never met, and I can't predict from one night to the next if she'll come home or not.  

It's still a dangerous and scary situation.


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## Rose Pink (Sep 3, 2011)

pjrose said:


> But TUG isn't dangerous....even with a timeshare addiction, TUGgers know to look for resale.


Definitely not dangerous in the way on-line dating can be!  However, I think we can understand the lure of having people to "talk" to; to look forward (even eagerly) to see if someone has responded to something we post, especially if they are complimentary. There are times I get on TUG many times a day.  And sometimes it takes up way more of my time than I anticipate it will.

 I wonder if she could be redirected to a safer internet site where she could communicate with people in a more appropriate and safe venue?

Does she have any interest in the animal rescue discussion groups or perhaps an on-line study group?  I know, not as exciting.


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## Liz Wolf-Spada (Sep 3, 2011)

Some of the online dating sites are now screening for sex offenders. Maybe you could get her to use those sites anyway. I think it was match.com and probably eharmony.
Liz


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## pjrose (Sep 3, 2011)

Rose Pink said:


> Definitely not dangerous in the way on-line dating can be!  However, I think we can understand the lure of having people to "talk" to; to look forward (even eagerly) to see if someone has responded to something we post, especially if they are complimentary. There are times I get on TUG many times a day.  And sometimes it takes up way more of my time than I anticipate it will.
> 
> I wonder if she could be redirected to a safer internet site where she could communicate with people in a more appropriate and safe venue?
> 
> Does she have any interest in the animal rescue discussion groups or perhaps an on-line study group?  I know, not as exciting.



Another scary situation last night, but maybe she's learning a bit from those situations.....this afternoon she went to a movie with a decent-seeming guy who actually drove her home afterward, and then went out for the night with one who came to the house and introduced himself.  In both cases we have contact info.  There will be ups and downs.

I suggested a site connected to a religion - we're not religious, but perhaps those on such sites might have stronger morals/values?


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## Rose Pink (Sep 3, 2011)

pjrose said:


> I suggested a site connected to a religion - we're not religious, but perhaps those on such sites might have stronger morals/values?


Perhaps, but they have their predators, too.  I would think that a decent, honest man on a religion-based dating site would be looking for a woman with the same values and beliefs.  If DD doesn't believe as he does, then it probably wouldn't work out.  The predators are always on the lookout for the innocent and gullible wherever they can find them.  So, just be careful.  I know you are doing your best.


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## pjrose (Sep 8, 2011)

*Update...*

It's a week later, and she is no longer on the road.  She is taking most of her meds, in school part-time, continuing with one volunteer job, and home when she's not at school or out on a date with someone from online.  She is still obsessed with online dating sites and constantly glued to the laptop and cell phone.   She still doesn't get that you should always talk awhile first, then meet in a public place a few times, etc.  

She has been going out most nights, but giving us info to find her in case there's a problem, and texting that she's safe.  We have a code for her to text me if she isn't safe.  We do not like the behavior but are tolerating it because at least she isn't out on the streets.  

She's supposedly applying for jobs in order to be able to afford to move to her own place....it'll take a lot more work than she's put into it yet.

Keep that good Karma and those prayers coming, or burn incense and hug trees, and I'm continuing with my daily dose of cookie-dough ice cream, lots of hugs with DH, and enjoying the comfort of my purry kittens.


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## BevL (Sep 8, 2011)

That is great news.  Hopefully things remain on an even keel.

Still sending good thoughts your way.  Keep hanging in there, it's about all you can do some days!!


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## Mel (Sep 8, 2011)

pjrose said:


> She's supposedly applying for jobs in order to be able to afford to move to her own place....it'll take a lot more work than she's put into it yet.


On the one hand, it would be good for her self esteem if she landed a good job, but it would also mean less influence on your part, as she would not have you there to remind her if she forgets the meds.  And unfortunately, that will happen at some point - at least at home you will be there to get her back on track quickly.

Has she developed any long term goals?  I know that has helped a great deal with our DD.  I fear for her when she goes away to college, but she at least has spent time the last 3 summers on campus, with significant supervision, and have not had to go the route of medications - behavior modification has worked well with her so far, but we've seen issues on the horizon as well.  She has firm goals for herself, and if she can help it, she won't let anything get in the way of those goals.

It is very difficult to allow them to control their own lives when you know they aren't capable of doing so, but we have to let them have at least some control.  It sounds like she understands and accepts your concerns, and that's a big start.  Let's hope she really does understand how important the meds are for her - that she understands they they don't control her, but they allow her to control herself.  That perspective helped a neighbor's son immensely.


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## pjrose (Sep 8, 2011)

She has always had long-term goals.  She wants to be in the medical field and wants children.  At this point with only a HS degree and unfinished coursework in the medical field, the best she'll be able to get is a CNA or working in a store.  If she gets a job and can pay for part of an apartment we'll help with start-up costs and we'll continue to cover medical and educational.

Unfortunately, I'm afraid her baby-wish is very strong.  Her birth-control-pill-taking has been erratic, and with the current behavior....she's going to find out the hard way. She doesn't comprehend the reality of what she is doing.


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## puppymommo (Sep 8, 2011)

I'm sure you've thought of this, but would she be open to the birth control shot?  One shot and she's covered for three months.  Doesn't address the possible STD issue, but but at least you (all) won't be worried about the unplanned pregnancy issue.


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## pjrose (Sep 8, 2011)

She was on it for years, initially prescribed for mood swings.  It helped a lot, plus no worries about babies.  Unfortunately she refused to take it any more last winter, based on misinformation from well-meaning friends.  She WANTS to be pregnant, and I guess we have to consider it successful that she made it this far...not 14, 15, 16, etc.  She'll learn the hard way.  I did tell her that it is child abuse to conceive a child with the possibility of STDs, alcohol, and drugs, and with a random guy who probably won't even pay child support.  There is no logic with her.  



puppymommo said:


> I'm sure you've thought of this, but would she be open to the birth control shot?  One shot and she's covered for three months.  Doesn't address the possible STD issue, but but at least you (all) won't be worried about the unplanned pregnancy issue.


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## pjrose (Oct 16, 2011)

*Update - she moved in with a new boyfriend*

She came home after a few weeks but continued online dating - on the computer and cell constantly, then would go out with God-knows-who - drove us crazy but she usually told us the name and phone number, and at home she was at least taking meds and going to one class (had to drop the other four).  She applied for a few jobs, but no luck there.  She picked up mono and at least two misc. infections during her "adventures," but did not get pregnant.  

Two weeks ago she went to an all-day outdoor concert with an online date and they really hit it off.  The next day she had another syncope in class and was taken to the ER.  She called him to pick her up, then called us to let us know.  He asked if it was ok with us, I said not really, but it was her choice not ours and I just wanted her to be safe. 

They went to his house ~2 hours away and a week later they came here  to pack up clothes and books.  He seems stable, is employed, owns house he is fixing up, they are besotted with each other, and she is taking ALL meds including B/C.  She's taking two online classes.  We are in touch almost every day and she sounds good (other than tired from mono).  

So....she says she is safe and happy, we know where she is, and we are far less stressed.  It's not what I envisioned for my 19 year old, but it is much better than a few months ago.


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## ace2000 (Oct 16, 2011)

PJ - I wish you the best possible outcome in the situation.  

Just curious, and it may be posted already... but are you providing any financial support for her?  Cell phone, insurance, extra money, etc.?


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## pjrose (Oct 16, 2011)

ace2000 said:


> PJ - I wish you the best possible outcome in the situation.
> 
> Just curious, and it may be posted already... but are you providing any financial support for her?  Cell phone, insurance, extra money, etc.?



her cell phone on the family plan - for safety
her tuition/books
she is covered by our medical insurance
+ she has some money saved up from birthdays etc

She has applied for some jobs, but with the mono and repeated syncopes I really don't think she could hold a job right now...they haven't asked, but I am thinking of sending them some grocery store gift cards.


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## Sandi Bo (Oct 16, 2011)

Thanks for the update PJ. It sounds like she's doing good, hope she continues to do so.  When they said parenting would be our toughest job ever, they weren't kidding.

I do the same for my 21 year old DS -- pay his cell phone, car insurance, and health insurance. It's as much for me as him. The deal is he has to be in school.  However, he took this quarter off. I reminded him yesterday of our deal and the need to get back in school. I can't push him too hard, but I did give hime a gentle nudge. 

He has his own place and works delivering pizza. Not what I envisioned for my 21 year old. But I think he'll find his way, it's just taking him some time. And all he has to do is say I love you momma, and I melt. Still....


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## Mel (Oct 16, 2011)

pjrose said:


> So....she says she is safe and happy, we know where she is, and we are far less stressed.  It's not what I envisioned for my 19 year old, but it is much better than a few months ago.


It sounds promising - he sounds like a stabilizing influence.  Maybe she is doing what she needs to for him, and that's a start.  Perhaps she will learn to do it for herself.  She needed to do it her way, and at least her way came out OK this time.  Even if it doesn't work out with him in the long run, maybe the experience will give her some confidence, and get her on the right path.


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## Htoo0 (Oct 17, 2011)

Hoping this turns out to be a good experience for her. Can't imagine how difficult it can be to raise a child even without major problems.


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