# hgvc rofr vs gift affidavit



## Panina (Jul 15, 2018)

I own a mandatory hgvc week that I no longer need as I got a week at a hgvc affiliate from a generous tugger for the exact week I used it for.

I want to offer it in the bargain section of tug.

I spoke with LT transfers.  Being I will be giving this as a gift to a fellow tugger friend, I was told there will be no Right of first refusal. I hope they are right.  I will have to fill out a gift affidavit form.

Is what lt Transfers told me right? I only spoke to one person there so I will call back to confirm but thought tuggers would know if signing a gift affidavit gets around rofr as I never heard of this before.


----------



## breezez (Jul 15, 2018)

Thanks for this info...   Let us know how it works out


----------



## Cyberc (Jul 15, 2018)

I have no first hand knowledge about this, but IF this is true then you could use it to bypass the rofr process.  

You and the “buyer” could agree that the price of the gift was $xxxx and then you could proceed with the paperwork. The price of the timeshare would not ever be part of the paperwork so hgvc or anyone else wouldn’t know. 

Imho I don’t think it work, but I could be wrong. 

I do however think the gift thing will work if buyer and seller is related.


----------



## Panina (Jul 15, 2018)

Cyberc said:


> I have no first hand knowledge about this, but IF this is true then you could use it to bypass the rofr process.
> 
> You and the “buyer” could agree that the price of the gift was $xxxx and then you could proceed with the paperwork. The price of the timeshare would not ever be part of the paperwork so hgvc or anyone else wouldn’t know.
> 
> ...



I agree with your analysis, it makes sense.  That is why I was asking as I what I was told didn’t sound right.

I will call  Lt Transfers again and ask for a copy of the gift affidavit form.

I will also call the resort to talk to a sales associate to see what they say.

I haven’t seen activity on roft.net on the resort so maybe they aren't exercising rofr there.  When I got it I just paid closing costs.


----------



## sb2313 (Jul 15, 2018)

From experience with being gifted a parc soliel unit,this is true and will “bylass” rofr.


----------



## Panina (Jul 15, 2018)

sb2313 said:


> From experience with being gifted a parc soliel unit,this is true and will “bylass” rofr.


Are you related to the gifter?  Or just a friend?


----------



## dayooper (Jul 15, 2018)

sb2313 said:


> From experience with being gifted a parc soliel unit,this is true and will “bylass” rofr.



Were you gifted by a relative or a friend?


----------



## dayooper (Jul 15, 2018)

Panina said:


> Are you related to the gifter?  Or just a friend?





dayooper said:


> Were you gifted by a relative or a friend?



Great minds think alike!


----------



## sb2313 (Jul 15, 2018)

dayooper said:


> Great minds think alike!


Giveaway from the bargain board here a few years ago. But it was truly a gift, zero dollars changed hands.


----------



## Panina (Jul 15, 2018)

sb2313 said:


> Giveaway from the bargain board here a few years ago. But it was truly a gift, zero dollars changed hands.


Thanks for sharing, LT transfer was right.


----------



## Talent312 (Jul 15, 2018)

Sure, the donee could agree that the price of the "gift" was 'x' and make a reciprocal "gift" to the donor OOC (outside of closing). Afterall, my brother and I have agreed to exchange $50 gift cards at Christmas.

But in this context, it would would be fraudulent, and sometimes those things will come back to haunt you. OTOH, I don't see anything wrong with the donee paying all x-fer expenses, however much that might be.

.

.


----------



## Sicnarf (Jul 15, 2018)

My 2 HGVC units were gifted to me.  I just paid for the transfer fees.  No ROFR involved.


----------



## hurnik (Jul 16, 2018)

Yes, this works as they mentioned.
1)  The gift-ee does not need to be related at all. You can gift to anyone
2)  Hilton still has to approve the "gifting" part, but there's no ROFR.  I'm not aware of them denying gifting, so it's probably just a formality

I think for the Seaworld unit my sister got (that was gifted to her by someone), it took maybe 4-5 weeks or so for all the stuff to get done by Hilton and I think it was week 5 or 6 that my sister got a phone call from Hilton to set up her online account and all that jazz.


----------



## Cyberc (Jul 16, 2018)

Talent312 said:


> Sure, the donee could agree that the price of the "gift" was 'x' and make a reciprocal "gift" to the donor OOC (outside of closing). Afterall, my brother and I have agreed to exchange $50 gift cards at Christmas.
> 
> But in this context, it would would be fraudulent, and sometimes those things will come back to haunt you. OTOH, I don't see anything wrong with the donee paying all x-fer expenses, however much that might be.
> 
> ...




I’m trying to understand why this is even possible as people could just gift a property to each other and agree on a sum outside the contract. 

You mentioned that it’s fraudulent but how would anyone know unless buyer or seller disclose the information?


----------



## Panina (Jul 16, 2018)

Cyberc said:


> I’m trying to understand why this is even possible as people could just gift a property to each other and agree on a sum outside the contract.
> 
> You mentioned that it’s fraudulent but how would anyone know unless buyer or seller disclose the information?


It is like many other transactions in life, do it legally never have to worry, do it illegally you open  yourself up to problems. I am sure the affidavit I will sign from hgvc will give them the right to come after me if they find out I lie.

Almost everything we do is traceable these days.  Yes you could hide it but with rofr the seller gets from hgvc what they would get from the buyer so why exchange money outside the contract?


----------



## hurnik (Jul 16, 2018)

Cyberc said:


> I’m trying to understand why this is even possible as people could just gift a property to each other and agree on a sum outside the contract.
> 
> You mentioned that it’s fraudulent but how would anyone know unless buyer or seller disclose the information?



I liken this to when you apply for a mortgage and you're asked if any of the portion of the down payment is a loan/borrow from a relative or other source type of thing.

Or even renting out non-home weeks with Hilton, etc.

*would* they come after you?  Probably not
Do you want to take that chance?  Up to you.


----------



## Sapper (Jul 16, 2018)

Panina said:


> It is like many other transactions in life, do it legally never have to worry, do it illegally you open  yourself up to problems. I am sure the affidavit I will sign from hgvc will give them the right to come after me if they find out I lie.
> 
> Almost everything we do is traceable these days.  Yes you could hide it but with rofr the seller gets from hgvc what they would get from the buyer so why exchange money outside the contract?



This is exactly what I was thinking.  No upside for the seller, only down side.


----------



## Mongoose (Apr 26, 2021)

Panina said:


> It is like many other transactions in life, do it legally never have to worry, do it illegally you open  yourself up to problems. I am sure the affidavit I will sign from hgvc will give them the right to come after me if they find out I lie.
> 
> Almost everything we do is traceable these days.  Yes you could hide it but with rofr the seller gets from hgvc what they would get from the buyer so why exchange money outside the contract?


How did this work out for you?  Did you do the gift affidavit?


----------



## GrayFal (Apr 26, 2021)

Panina said:


> It is like many other transactions in life, do it legally never have to worry, do it illegally you open  yourself up to problems. I am sure the affidavit I will sign from hgvc will give them the right to come after me if they find out I lie.
> 
> Almost everything we do is traceable these days.  Yes you could hide it but with rofr the seller gets from hgvc what they would get from the buyer so why exchange money outside the contract?


But what is the lie?
You truly are gifting it.  Asking for nothing in return.


----------



## Panina (Apr 27, 2021)

Mongoose said:


> How did this work out for you?  Did you do the gift affidavit?


Yes I truly gifted


----------



## Mongoose (Apr 27, 2021)

Panina said:


> Yes I truly gifted


Great news!  So LT Transfers worked with you on a Gift Affidavit and it went through with HGVC without any issues?


----------



## Panina (Apr 27, 2021)

Mongoose said:


> Great news!  So LT Transfers worked with you on a Gift Affidavit and it went through with HGVC without any issues?


Yes


----------



## Zenichiro (Apr 27, 2021)

This Leeds me to the belief that IF one had Developer purchased deed and they gifted it to a relative or friend that the points would remain developer purchased points?

Does anyone know if this is the case? I would hope that if I willed my developer purchased property that it would remain that as well.


----------



## phil1ben (Apr 29, 2021)

Talent312 said:


> Sure, the donee could agree that the price of the "gift" was 'x' and make a reciprocal "gift" to the donor OOC (outside of closing). Afterall, my brother and I have agreed to exchange $50 gift cards at Christmas.
> 
> But in this context, it would would be fraudulent, and sometimes those things will come back to haunt you. OTOH, I don't see anything wrong with the donee paying all x-fer expenses, however much that might be.
> 
> ...


Agree. The gift affidavit will confirm that no consideration changed hands from Seller to Buyer. So if you actually received payment you will be signing a false affidavit. Not the type of issue I would want to lose sleep over but we are all different. Took a quick look under Florida law and it appears to be a felony of the third degree (see (c)(3) below):


*The 2020 Florida Statutes



*

*Title VII*
EVIDENCE*Chapter 92*
WITNESSES, RECORDS, AND DOCUMENTS*View Entire Chapter*
92.525 Verification of documents; perjury by false written declaration, penalty.—
(1) If authorized or required by law, by rule of an administrative agency, or by rule or order of court that a document be verified by a person, the verification may be accomplished in the following manner:
(a) Under oath or affirmation taken or administered before an officer authorized under s. 92.50 to administer oaths;
(b) Under oath or affirmation taken or administered by an officer authorized under s. 117.10 to administer oaths; or
(c) By the signing of the written declaration prescribed in subsection (2).
(2) A written declaration means the following statement: “Under penalties of perjury, I declare that I have read the foregoing [document] and that the facts stated in it are true,” followed by the signature of the person making the declaration, except when a verification on information or belief is permitted by law, in which case the words “to the best of my knowledge and belief” may be added. The written declaration shall be printed or typed at the end of or immediately below the document being verified and above the signature of the person making the declaration.
(3) A person who knowingly makes a false declaration under subsection (2) is guilty of the crime of perjury by false written declaration, a felony of the third degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084.
(4) As used in this section:
(a) The term “administrative agency” means any department or agency of the state or any county, municipality, special district, or other political subdivision.
(b) The term “document” means any writing including, without limitation, any form, application, claim, notice, tax return, inventory, affidavit, pleading, or paper.
(c) The requirement that a document be verified means that the document must be signed or executed by a person and that the person must state under oath or affirm that the facts or matters stated or recited in the document are true, or words of that import or effect.
History.—s. 12, ch. 86-201; s. 1, ch. 2015-23.


----------



## GrayFal (Apr 29, 2021)

hurnik said:


> Yes, this works as they mentioned.
> 1)  The gift-ee does not need to be related at all. You can gift to anyone
> 2)  Hilton still has to approve the "gifting" part, but there's no ROFR.  I'm not aware of them denying gifting, so it's probably just a formality
> 
> I think for the Seaworld unit my sister got (that was gifted to her by someone), it took maybe 4-5 weeks or so for all the stuff to get done by Hilton and I think it was week 5 or 6 that my sister got a phone call from Hilton to set up her online account and all that jazz.


Is this unique to HGVC or should this work with other timeshares? 

Bluebreen has become very aggressive and has been exercising ROFR on almost all $0 transfers whether the buyer or seller pays the $550 transfer fee. 

Would filling out an affidavit bypass ROFR with BG or Marriott or Vistana or Hyatt or is this unique to HIlton


----------



## Talent312 (Apr 29, 2021)

GrayFal said:


> Would filling out an affidavit bypass ROFR with BG or Marriott or Vistana or Hyatt or is this unique to HIlton?



Not a clue. But the safer bet would be to ask them directly.


----------



## GT75 (Apr 29, 2021)

GrayFal said:


> Is this unique to HGVC or should this work with other timeshares?


I think that your question would be more appropriate to ask in the applicable TS forums.


----------



## GrayFal (Apr 29, 2021)

GT75 said:


> I think that your question would be more appropriate to ask in the applicable TS forums.


Agree. 
But I am the one who usually answers in tbe BG forum and I don't know. 

@Panina was the form LT sent you a generic gifting form or specific to HGVC?


----------



## Mongoose (Apr 29, 2021)

Working with LT Transfers on our Deed swap they put the price at Zero with an asterisk for Additional Terms.  The additional terms spelled out a equal value for each time share and the equal exchange was in lieu of exchanging money.  Apparently they do this often.


----------



## GrayFal (Apr 29, 2021)

Mongoose said:


> Working with LT Transfers on our Deed swap they put the price at Zero with an asterisk for Additional Terms.  The additional terms spelled out a equal value for each time share and the equal exchange was in lieu of exchanging money.  Apparently they do this often.


Thanks. I think they would be a good source to check with.


----------



## Panina (Apr 29, 2021)

GrayFal said:


> Agree.
> But I am the one who usually answers in tbe BG forum and I don't know.
> 
> @Panina was the form LT sent you a generic gifting form or specific to HGVC?


I don’t remember


----------



## Nowaker (Nov 21, 2021)

hurnik said:


> 2) Hilton still has to approve the "gifting" part, but there's no ROFR. I'm not aware of them denying gifting, so it's probably just a formality



I highly doubt this is a case. The developer retains the right of first refusal even for transactions with gift affidavit.

First, the form itself reads: _My relationship to the Transferee is as follows: none_
And on the bottom: _If Transferee is not a relative of the owner/transferor, the transfer of the vacation ownership interest will be subject to the applicable Right of First Refusal as set forth in the vacation ownership interest governing documents_.

The right is one thing. They do retain the ROFR and can exercise it at will.

That said, whether their internal policy is to waive ROFR for all gift affidavit backed transactions is another thing. We simply don't know if that's a case and have no way to know without an insider at HGV.

My Elara 1 BR Grand 5000 Gold passed at $1 but Elara is never exercised anyway (not a single failure on rofr.net), so that's no proof. I also have a Trump Studio Plus 5250 Platinum coming at $1, waiting for ROFR at the moment, but this one has historically no ROFR exercised either, so again, no proof. ...Can someone gift me a penthouse 2BR unit in Platinum season at Ocean 22 for science, pretty pretty please?

Gift affidavit attached for posterity.


----------



## pedro47 (Nov 22, 2021)

How much do you pay for yearly club membership?


----------



## GT75 (Nov 22, 2021)

pedro47 said:


> How much do you pay for yearly club membership?


HGVC club dues?    2022 club dues are $193.


----------



## Talent312 (Nov 22, 2021)

pedro47 said:


> How much do you pay for yearly club membership?


Club dues ($193) are but a pittance compared to other fees...
MF's ($1200-1600/year for most), and various transaction fees.


----------



## pedro47 (Nov 22, 2021)

Talent312 said:


> Club dues ($193) are but a pittance compared to other fees...
> MF's ($1200-1600/year for most), and various transaction fees.


Thanks


----------

