# USA will close takeover of AA within week



## Talent312 (Feb 9, 2013)

*NEW YORK (Reuters) -* US Airways Group Inc and AMR Corp are nearing an $11 billion merger that would create the world's largest airline and could announce a deal within a week, people familiar with the matter said. US Airways CEO Doug Parker would become CEO, while AMR's Tom Horton would serve as chairman of the board until spring of 2014, when the combined company holds its first annual meeting.

The deal comes 14 months after the parent of AA filed for bankruptcy, and marks the last combination of legacy U.S. carriers, following the Delta-Northwest and United-Continental mergers. The all-stock merger would give AMR creditors 72 percent of the ownership in the new company and US Airways shareholders the rest.
.


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## x3 skier (Feb 9, 2013)

How's that song go? "it's the end oF the world as we know it,"

Maybe Delta will start looking good again to some people. :hysterical:

Cheers


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## timeos2 (Feb 10, 2013)

American has priced themselves out of contention for most of our trips and US Air has degraded service and routes to the point we use them only as a last resort. Putting those two losers together hardly creates an attractive option even if it will technically the largest of all.  

Hopefully Southwest and Jetblue will choose to go after more routes and help reduce costs and increase service levels. We hardly ever see competitive prices from United either. It seems the choices and service are just getting worse as the price does nothing but rise.  Glad we like to drive and that we own only resorts we can drive to if needed.


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## dougp26364 (Feb 10, 2013)

I think I'm beginging t see the end of FF programs as I've known them. My wife said there was a news program/article that was telling people to burn those FF miles now. Based on my experiences with Delta and America West/USAir, I think I tend to agree. 

I had hoped to get maybe one more RT flight to Hawaii out of our current FF miles but, it's looking more like I'll be burning them on domestic routes while I can still get super saver deals for 25,000 miles. I guess I should be grateful that I have enough to keep us in the air for the next year, assuming UAL doesn't jack it's RT miles to 40,000 for most routes like Delta and USAir haved done.

Flying has become all about getting from point A to point B for the lowest total dollar amount. Service is secondary. Anymore I feel as if I'm on an express route Greyhound bus with wings. At least it hasn't degraded to the point I feel I'm non a Continental Trailways bus. 

I wonder how long it will be before airlines start back in with routes the make multiple landings before reaching their final destination? I remember flying from Kansas City, MO to Lincoln, NE before deregulation. Even on that short flight we had a stop in Omaha before reaching Lincoln. Now tha was more like being on a Greyhound with wings, making all those stops in all those little one stop sign towns along the way.


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## persia (Feb 10, 2013)

I really hope JetBlue and Southwest go on a major expansion move, along with Virgin America, I really hate it when they don't go somewhere I want to go and I have to fly those other airlines....



timeos2 said:


> American has priced themselves out of contention for most of our trips and US Air has degraded service and routes to the point we use them only as a last resort. Putting those two losers together hardly creates an attractive option even if it will technically the largest of all.
> 
> Hopefully Southwest and Jetblue will choose to go after more routes and help reduce costs and increase service levels. We hardly ever see competitive prices from United either. It seems the choices and service are just getting worse as the price does nothing but rise.  Glad we like to drive and that we own only resorts we can drive to if needed.


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## Rent_Share (Feb 10, 2013)

Dougie can reclaim his nickname

America Worst

Now AmericaN Worst


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## bogey21 (Feb 10, 2013)

persia said:


> I really hope JetBlue and Southwest go on a major expansion move, along with Virgin America, I really hate it when they don't go somewhere I want to go and I have to fly those other airlines....



I don't know anything about JetBlue but I have watched Southwest go from a great airline operating almost exclusively out of Dallas to a good one as they have grown.  Any more growth and they will become mediocre.

George


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## mtwingcpa (Feb 10, 2013)

bogey21 said:


> I don't know anything about JetBlue but I have watched Southwest go from a great airline operating almost exclusively out of Dallas to a good one as they have grown.  Any more growth and they will become mediocre.



I have the same concerns about Alaska, my favorite (so far) airline.


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## LannyPC (Feb 10, 2013)

What would this merger mean for alliances?  Currently, US is with the Star Alliance and AA is with the One World Alliance (or has that status recently changed?).


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## Ken555 (Feb 10, 2013)

Bad news. But, there's at least a few more days...perhaps BA will step up to the plate. Unless the combined airline stays with OneWorld and BA, I doubt they'd be pleased. 

Perhaps this was the reason behind the new logo for AA - maybe the combined airline will retain the AA name?


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## sfwilshire (Feb 10, 2013)

timeos2 said:


> American has priced themselves out of contention for most of our trips and US Air has degraded service and routes to the point we use them only as a last resort. Putting those two losers together hardly creates an attractive option even if it will technically the largest of all.



I fly mostly on government fares and American has been the lowest cost carrier for the majority of my travel for the last few years. US Airways is usually much higher. 

I've been fairly happy with American. 

Sheila


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## glypnirsgirl (Feb 10, 2013)

Since Delta (mostly) left DFW saveral years ago, we have been captive to AA. Usually, a trip to somewhere that SW flies is more $$ and less service than AA. 

To me, SW has always been the ultimate bus with wings. Except with buses, I have never known them to cancel a trip just because it was undersold.

I am not looking forward to any of this.

elaine


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## Ken555 (Feb 10, 2013)

I just read a bit more about the news, and one report states:



> NEW AMERICAN AIRLINES
> 
> US Airways will follow through on its agreement with AMR labor unions last year that the combined carrier would be branded American Airlines and be based in Fort Worth, Texas, where AMR is currently based, sources said. US Airways has its headquarters in Tempe, Arizona.
> 
> As part of the merger, US Airways will also leave the Star Alliance to join the oneworld global airline alliance, of which American Airlines is an anchor member along with British Airways, the people familiar with the matter said.


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## Talent312 (Feb 10, 2013)

I guess the old slogan that "US Air begins with 'U'," ain't coming back. :annoyed:


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## deannak (Feb 11, 2013)

Ken555 said:


> Perhaps this was the reason behind the new logo for AA - maybe the combined airline will retain the AA name?



Good thought!  I had wondered why they were going through an expensive rebranding at a time like this.  Suddenly there's a bit of sense to it...


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## MichaelColey (Feb 11, 2013)

They've said all along that the merged company would retain the AA name and One World alliance affiliation.


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## Pat H (Feb 11, 2013)

I'm lifetime gold with AA and I wonder if that will stay. Have lots of miles with them too. Have nada with US.


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## Ken555 (Feb 11, 2013)

MichaelColey said:


> They've said all along that the merged company would retain the AA name and One World alliance affiliation.



Well, I guess that's something.


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## BocaBum99 (Feb 11, 2013)

Ken555 said:


> I just read a bit more about the news, and one report states:



It's too bad US Airways is leaving the Star Alliance.   They were always a good back up carrier should the United legs be full.


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## Ken555 (Feb 11, 2013)

BocaBum99 said:


> It's too bad US Airways is leaving the Star Alliance.   They were always a good back up carrier should the United legs be full.



Yup, and I had transferred a bunch of StarPoints to USAir in order to book Hawaii flights on United. I've still got ~115,000 miles on USAir and plan on using them soon - looking at another Europe trip, so likely will use them up on a business seat. I've got plenty of miles on AA and don't need to have them transfer (though if the transferred miles are counted toward million miler status, I'd consider leaving them in the account for that...but I doubt that would happen).


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## GetawaysRus (Feb 11, 2013)

Pat H said:


> I'm lifetime gold with AA and I wonder if that will stay. Have lots of miles with them too. Have nada with US.



I reached Lifetime Plat with AA, so I'm wondering too.  It's all speculation at this point, but here's one comment I thought was interesting:

http://thepointsguy.com/2013/02/max...otential-american-airlines-us-airways-merger/

Scroll down to the section titled Million Miler Status.  Here he writes:
_Another much-discussed topic concerning elite status these days is Million Miler status – especially considering the current lawsuit against United that has been allowed to proceed where United Million Milers complain that their elite benefits were reduced after the merger when United and Continental amended their elite benefits. Million Milers who had achieved that status and the promised benefits before the merger believe that they should get what they were originally promised – and there’s no reason the same thing might not happen with this merger._

So if there is a lawsuit pending against United, would a combined AA-US Air want to alienate customers and risk a lawsuit as well.  Or would it just be easier to let us keep our lifetime status?


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## BocaBum99 (Feb 11, 2013)

GetawaysRus said:


> I reached Lifetime Plat with AA, so I'm wondering too.  It's all speculation at this point, but here's one comment I thought was interesting:
> 
> http://thepointsguy.com/2013/02/max...otential-american-airlines-us-airways-merger/
> 
> ...



Interesting.  I am a United Million Miler and I am fine with the benefits after the merger especially since combining points between Continental and United enabled me to attain such level.

If United changes the benefits, that's even better.  However, I don't see how they can win since United can change the program any time it wants.


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## MichaelColey (Feb 11, 2013)

I'm Lifetime Platinum with AA and my whole family has a lot of miles on both, so I'm hopeful that it'll be a positive for us.  Although it's hard to think of anything involving US Airways being a positive...


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## x3 skier (Feb 12, 2013)

MichaelColey said:


> Although it's *impossible* to think of anything involving US Airways being a positive...



Fixed that for you. 

One of my more interesting trips on Agony Airlines (predecessor to Useless Airlines) was a trip to DCA when we lost a section of flap somewhere over Pennsylvania. They are also the only airline to misplace my checked bags (twice) in over 3 MM miles of traveling on just about every USA airlines including over 1 MM miles on Useless Air and Agony (for which I received zero benefits unlike DL and AA who awarded lifetime status)

Cheers


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## tiel (Feb 12, 2013)

When airlines merge like this, what usually happens to the FF miles accumulated by individuals?  I've got accounts with both airlines, but more with US.  Is there a good chance I will lose some miles?  Just wondering what's likely to happen.


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## scotlass (Feb 12, 2013)

When NW merged with Delta, our NW miles were transferred to our Delta account with no losses.  I believe we had to initiate the transfer ourselves, but we got all the miles.


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## x3 skier (Feb 12, 2013)

tiel said:


> When airlines merge like this, what usually happens to the FF miles accumulated by individuals?  I've got accounts with both airlines, but more with US.  Is there a good chance I will lose some miles?  Just wondering what's likely to happen.



In every case I have been involved with, the miles are combined. 

TWA+AA, Delta+NWA, even Piedmont+Useless Air IIRC. The US and AA miles should just merge. Unless it is some screwy thing like BA Avios which are unique, the only question is what is the final account number which I am assuming will be your AAdvantage number. 

Cheers


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## Carolinian (Feb 12, 2013)

scotlass said:


> When NW merged with Delta, our NW miles were transferred to our Delta account with no losses.  I believe we had to initiate the transfer ourselves, but we got all the miles.



Yeah, but the miles were worth a whole lot less on DL, even if you had the same number of them.  It made me absolutely sick that my valuable Worldperks miles were milejacked into DL Skypesos, and the BMI Diamond Club miles I was not able to use in time got milejacked into BA Avios inches.


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## Carolinian (Feb 12, 2013)

Parker is certainly generating a media drumbeat, but we can keep our fingers crossed that this is just blowing smoke as some other airline deals have turned out.  The fat lady certainly has not sung yet.  So far the creditors committee at AA, which has the real power, has been siding solidly with AA management, which does not want a merger.  If AA emerges from bankruptcy independent, then there is almost certain to be a stock crash at US, which may even leave US belly up.  That would allow AA to get all or the parts it wants of US on the cheap.  A merger in bankruptcy is in US interests but not AA's.

Every major airline merger recently - AF and KLM, DL and NW, and UA and CO have involved major devaluations of their ff programs for both predecessor airlines.  If AA were in the drivers seat, that would be much less likely given their using DL's and UA's devaluations to poach high value clients.  However, Darth Parker is a horse of a different color.

The other big negative for passengers, is that this would complete the oligopoly of major airlines, and that would likely jack up prices.  If the DOJ cared at all about consumers and about competition, they would deny this merger, but then again if they did they would have denied the previous mergers and they did not.

The one hope is the European Commission which just a few days ago blocked RyanAir's takeover of Aer Lingus.  Maybe they will stand up against oligopoly and for consumers.  Of course, this merger and the resulting oligopoly may also inspire Michael O'Leary to do something he has always wanted to do, replicate RyanAir in the US, something that would give real competition to the new 3 way oligopoly.

The problem for AA was that Parker bribed AA's unions with promises of big pay increases to side with him, and they have a chunk of votes on the creditors committee.  Of course, that has also forced Parker to promise even bigger pay increases to US personnel.  All of that will unravel everything AA and its CEO Horton accomplished in bankruptcy.  A merger also burdens the merged entity with US' big debt load, for which Parker wants AA's solid cash position to keep US afloat.

A takeover would likely mean a euphoria period of stock increases, followed by a collapse when reality sets in.  It may be that some of the creditors would join with the unions to support the merger in the hope that they can cash out before their new stock turns into a pumpkin. that is how NW got stabbed in the back in the deal with DL. Those with solid business sense who want to stick with the airline would not want US's debt load or Parker's union bribes to have to be paid off.  If the merger happens, it will mean enough on the committee are thinking short term cashout rather than medium or long term, and if so I hope the scoundrels do not manage get out in time and get caught with some depreciated stock, which would serve them right.


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## MichaelColey (Feb 13, 2013)

One note on the title of this thread:  While the BID may be agreed on within a week, the deal won't CLOSE for months (after approval by shareholders, government entities and the courts).  And full implementation of the merger will likely take a year or two.


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## kanerf (Feb 13, 2013)

I went through the merger of America West and US Airways and my miles on both were combined without any problem.  I for one would welcome this merger as US Airways international service does not compare to AA international service and I have almost half a million miles on US Air that would transfer over to my hundred thousand or so I have on AA.  Combined I could get some really nice trips in AA Business.  Have to look at the awards on both and perhaps book an award on US if it is lower and perhaps end up on AA metal post merger.


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## MichaelColey (Feb 13, 2013)

I'm kind of in the same boat.  I have close to a million on AA and my wife and the older two kids each have about 25k.  All four of us have about 100k on US.  Combined and moved over to AA (which I hope will be the surviving FF program), I think it'll be a positive.  That somewhat offsets all the negatives (for me).

The one thing I hope survives is the RTW One World award tickets.  We were hoping to use those for a big RTW trip.


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## Ken555 (Feb 13, 2013)

They did it. 

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/02/14/american-usair-idUSL1N0BDL1H20130214


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## Ken555 (Feb 14, 2013)

http://www.aa.com/arriving


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## buzglyd (Feb 14, 2013)

MichaelColey said:


> I'm kind of in the same boat.  I have close to a million on AA and my wife and the older two kids each have about 25k.  All four of us have about 100k on US.  Combined and moved over to AA (which I hope will be the surviving FF program), I think it'll be a positive.  That somewhat offsets all the negatives (for me).
> 
> The one thing I hope survives is the RTW One World award tickets.  We were hoping to use those for a big RTW trip.



I was a longtime Gold/Platinum on Continental. It was a great airline for the business traveler. Since the switch to United, it's all gone downhill. 

The upside is (I used to fly United a lot many years ago) is they combined my lifetime flight miles. Once you've got a million, you and spouse are Gold for life.

I'm at 725,000. Not sure if I'll make it!


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## x3 skier (Feb 14, 2013)

Ken555 said:


> http://www.aa.com/arriving




Typical non statement. 

"Everything will be the same until we decide what to change after the third quarter of 2013."

Only thing I would like out of this is my lifetime miles on Useless Air to transfer and combine with my lifetime AA miles and make me lifetime Executive Platinum. Sincerely doubt that will happen but one can hope. 

Reading buzglyd's post does give me hope but who knows?

Cheers


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## Carolinian (Feb 14, 2013)

buzglyd said:


> I was a longtime Gold/Platinum on Continental. It was a great airline for the business traveler. Since the switch to United, it's all gone downhill.
> 
> The upside is (I used to fly United a lot many years ago) is they combined my lifetime flight miles. Once you've got a million, you and spouse are Gold for life.
> 
> I'm at 725,000. Not sure if I'll make it!



I went through that one, too, and the new UA has seriously eroded the old ff programs of both UA and CO when they merged them, as DL and CO did, and AF and KL.  BA did not damage its own program in the takeover of much smaller BMI but they gutted BMI's program.

Gold for life at UA these days is not what it was  pre-merger, and that is another concern with AA.

Giving twice convicted drunk driver Parker the wheel of AA is a really bad idea.  He is likely to drive more than the ff program into the ditch.  When he headed America West, it used to be known as America Worst.  Now, I guess we will have America*n* Worst.  Sad!


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## x3 skier (Feb 14, 2013)

I just got my emails about the merger and observe the legal boilerplate saying "nothing we said in our emails means anything legally" is longer than the message. :hysterical:

Cheers

Edit. I have now received four emails from AA and Citi all with attached boilerplate longer than the note. All saying basically "No matter what we just told you, it isn't legally binding and never will be.":hysterical:

I suppose I can expect some from Useless Air as well. Wonder what their weasel words will look like?

Cheers


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## Carolinian (Feb 14, 2013)

MichaelColey said:


> I'm kind of in the same boat.  I have close to a million on AA and my wife and the older two kids each have about 25k.  All four of us have about 100k on US.  Combined and moved over to AA (which I hope will be the surviving FF program), I think it'll be a positive.  That somewhat offsets all the negatives (for me).
> 
> The one thing I hope survives is the RTW One World award tickets.  We were hoping to use those for a big RTW trip.



If the AA ff program is not gutted, that would make sense, but with Parker at the wheel, it likely will be.  Every major merger - UA/CO, DL/NW, AF/KL - has seen the ff programs gutted, each in its own way.  Parker is of the same mindset.

Given its track record of not protecting consumers in previous mergers, we cannot really expect any move from USDOJ to block this disaster.  The European Commission, unlike the USDOJ, has shown a backbone to tell airlines ''NO'' on mergers, as it did just a few days ago on RyanAir's proposed takeover of Aer Lingus and has on other occaisions in the past. Since both airlines fly to Europe, that may be the only hope.

The biggest disaster for consumers will not be the ff programs but the fares.  As the DOJ sits on its backside while the industry creates an oligopoly, competition is becoming more and more of a joke, and you can expect to see significantly higher fares as a result.


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