# HGVC Elite Status Denied



## norm151 (May 5, 2010)

Hi everyone,
I have been an Elite member since 2006 and have been happy with the program beneifits and the way it fits into our overall travel planning.  Anyway, I booked a reservation at the HGVC on the Strip in Las Vegas last month and in the course of the conversation with the reservation agent, I was told that I was no longer Elite.  She said that HGVC has reviewed their records and eliminated people that quailifed with resales.  Bear in mind that I have not had any written communications from HGVC regarding my change in status. 

When being offered an opportunity to become Elite if I purchased a unit from Hilton, the sales staff checked my status and said I qualified so I paid their premium price to be in the program.   .

After learning of the loss of my Elite status, I immediately sent a letter to HGVC and am awaiting a reply.  Changing my status after 4 years is unacceptable!

 I would like to know if anyone else have had the same experience and whether they were able to retain their Elite status.

Thanks


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## yumdrey (May 5, 2010)

norm151 said:


> Hi everyone,
> I have been an Elite member since 2006 and have been happy with the program beneifits and the way it fits into our overall travel planning.  Anyway, I booked a reservation at the HGVC on the Strip in Las Vegas last month and in the course of the conversation with the reservation agent, I was told that I was no longer Elite.  She said that HGVC has reviewed their records and eliminated people that quailifed with resales.  Bear in mind that I have not had any written communications from HGVC regarding my change in status.
> 
> When being offered an opportunity to become Elite if I purchased a unit from Hilton, the sales staff checked my status and said I qualified so I paid their premium price to be in the program.   .
> ...



First, I don't know how you became elite with resale purchase (you mentioned that Hilton eliminated elite status from who were qualified with resales. And then you also mentioned that you purchased directly from Hilton.
So, you purchased resale, and then purchased more directly from Hilton to became Elite?
Just want to clarify things here.


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## norm151 (May 5, 2010)

Sorry for the confusion.
The first unit was a resale.  The second unit was a purchase from HGVC which then allowed me to participate in the Elite. program.


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## Talent312 (May 5, 2010)

This would likely affect all those who bought multiple units, only one of which was direct from HGVC, based in no small part on the representation that it would shoe-horn their way into elite status.

You could have grounds to sue based on your reliance on that representation at the time you bought your direct unit. But you'll likely find a clause in your contract similar to this one in the Guide: "Club program and use options and rules, including but not limited to..., are subject to change, adjustment, suspension, or discontinuation without notice." (pg.141).

Also: "Renewal of elite status will occur automatically so long as the qualifications are met on December 31 of each year... If the qualifications are not met on December 31, elite status will not be renewed for the following year." (Guide, pg. 142)

Their attorneys would say that these clauses permit them to "adjust" the rules and non-renew folks under new rules; however, that they dd not do so for many years would give rise to an equitable estoppel agrument... the doctrine is called "laches."  IOW, since they let you keep elite status for so many years, the change in rules notwithstanding, you were entitled to rely up that waiver.
-- _Good luck_ --


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## sjuhawk_jd (May 5, 2010)

Basically (it is my guess) HGVC might end up seperating your two timeshares in two accounts. The one purchased from Hilton directly will count towards Elite and the one purchased in resale will not. 

Since the direct purchase points are not upto 14K, they are dropping your elite status.


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## travelguy (May 5, 2010)

FWIW - Many times I've been pitched to upgrade to "Elite" status with a direct purchase from HGVC even though I already own well over 14,000 pts. resale.  This is about the only thing the HGVC salespeople can offer of value to me.  (Needless to say, I've turned it down every time.)


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## wmmmmm (May 5, 2010)

Can you verify that when you log into hgvc.com and that the banner no longer have "ELITE STATUS" above your membership number?  I purchased resale and the hgvc.com web site still have my status as elite.


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## brp (May 5, 2010)

norm151 said:


> When being offered an opportunity to become Elite if I purchased a unit from Hilton, the sales staff checked my status and said I qualified so I paid their premium price to be in the program.   .



Do you have anything in writing that confirms your qualification for Elite status based on adding the current purchase to prior purchases? It will certainly make an easier case if you have some documentation of this claim. Of course, the fact that they did classify you as Elite for 4 years tends to support this view and would be a good argument point as well.

Cheers.


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## jsb15 (May 5, 2010)

So they assured you they would make you elite with a direct purchase but now took it away?  As someone else once said on this board (sorry if I don't find the author), the only way you can tell if the timeshare salesman is lying is to see if his lips are moving.:rofl: :rofl:


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## sjuhawk_jd (May 5, 2010)

jsb15 said:


> So they assured you they would make you elite with a direct purchase but now took it away?  As someone else once said on this board (sorry if I don't find the author), the only way you can tell if the timeshare salesman is lying is to see if his lips are moving.:rofl: :rofl:



Not nice to ROFLMAO (twice) on someone's misfortune  :annoyed:


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## pianodinosaur (May 5, 2010)

Let me see if I understand this correctly.

1. You initially purchased X number of points from HGVC on the resale market.
2. You were told that if you purchase Y number of points from HGVC directly from HGVC to make 14000 points, you would have elite status.
3. You were told that the points you had previously purchased from HGVC on the resale market would be retroactively upgraded to count as if you had purchased directly from HGVC.  This is also stated in your contract.
4. You were then listed as HGVC Elite for about 4-5 years.
5. You were then told that you were no longer HGVC Elite.

If this is the case, you have a legitimate complaint and HGVC should and will correct the situation.   However, if you were not specifically told item #3 and do not have item #3 in the contract, I don't think you will get very far with your complaint.


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## hvacrsteve (May 5, 2010)

norm151 said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> When being offered an opportunity to become Elite if I purchased a unit from Hilton, the sales staff checked my status and said I qualified so I paid their premium price to be in the program.   .
> 
> ...



I would say that is fine, just refund my money for my purchase through you(Hilton)!
The bottom line is someone paid the full price, not you for the first one, but yes for the second!
Hilton recieved the full price from the first owner!
Why should they demand the right a second time!
It is a free market, the last I checked, they also have ROFR!
So they know who is purchasing the unit before hand because of ROFR!

I have several sales people tempt me with that same deal.
I have said show me in writing where they can do it, that usually ends the dialogue.  They have also catered the points they offered me based on getting Premier Elite!

I think you have a strong arguement, not a perfect one but a vey compelling on that most jurors would agree with you on.

I just don't think that Hilton would want a black eye from something like this, it would bring their integrity into question and would hurt potential buyers in the future.


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## brp (May 5, 2010)

hvacrsteve said:


> The bottom line is someone paid the full price, not you for the first one, but yes for the second!
> Hilton recieved the full price from the first owner!
> Why should they demand the right a second time!
> It is a free market, the last I checked, they also have ROFR!
> So they know who is purchasing the unit before hand because of ROFR!



These statements, while true, are not relevant to the argument at hand. It is part of the rules that resale buyers do not accumulate points toward status, regardless of the fact that _someone_ did pay full price for the points. None of what is written above will help the OP's case just as it wouldn't work for someone who bought 14,000 resale points and wanted Elite status.



hvacrsteve said:


> I just don't think that Hilton would want a black eye from something like this, it would bring their integrity into question and would hurt potential buyers in the future.



I completely agree with this. I'd give the salesperson the benefit of the doubt for misspeaking or not realizing that the first points were resale, rather than accuse him/her of lying.

When working with them on West 57th the sales agent said that the $85 cleaning fee for short stays would be going away- done deal. Turns out not to be the case. Because this was a deal-breaker for the way we travel, they were very willing to work out another arrangement with us-or even cancel it all, even though nothing was officially in writing.

I suspect that they will do the "right thing" here.

Cheers.


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## hvacrsteve (May 5, 2010)

Do keep us posted on this, it will give me a lot of amunition for my next owners update!

Elite!

yea right!

I already have the best Elite perk of them all!

DIAMOND!


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## deedman (May 5, 2010)

doesnt gold vip and diamond status both give the same perks for room upgrades? all thats basically different is 50% bonus credit on HHonors points instead of 25%, and 48 hour reservation guarantee? whatever that is.


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## Talent312 (May 5, 2010)

deedman said:


> Doesnt gold vip and diamond status both give...



Dude...
Let's not confuse the issue the OP raised about her HGVC status by asking about HHonors.
There have been many previous discussions of HH tiers elsewhere.


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## Bill4728 (May 5, 2010)

deedman said:


> doesnt gold vip and diamond status both give the same perks for room upgrades? all thats basically different is 50% bonus credit on HHonors points instead of 25%, and 48 hour reservation guarantee? whatever that is.


We're not talking about the Hilton Honors program "status" but the HGVC status. 

Buyer who qualify, get "elite" status with HGVC if they own 14,000 pts worth of HGVC TSs.  Some people have gotten that status when buying some of their weeks resale( is seem to be true more often than not, when they purchase was some kind of a HGVC affiliate), but most people find that unless all their purchases were direct from HGVC, they don't get elite.


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## brp (May 5, 2010)

deedman said:


> doesnt gold vip and diamond status both give the same perks for room upgrades? all thats basically different is 50% bonus credit on HHonors points instead of 25%, and 48 hour reservation guarantee? whatever that is.



I assume you're talking about Gold and Diamond status with respect to HHonors stays? There are some other differences as well, although somewhat minor. One that could be big is- in locations that have an executive lounge on the upgrade floors, Gold members only get access to the lounge if they get an upgrade. If not, no lounge access, but just standard breakfast. Diamond members get lounge access even if an upgraded room is not available. Not a huge deal, IMO.

Cheers.


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## Talent312 (May 5, 2010)

Back on topic...
That the OP actually had elitie status for four years B4 it was yanked is ample proof of what "she was told." HGVC's _performance_ of this part of the deal means that they knew what was promised... otherwise they would not have done it.

The expense of a lawsuit may not be worthwhile. The issue would be how to quantify her damages, and such a suit would have to be filed in Orlando (another HGVC rule). However, hiring a lawyer to write a demand letter is relatively inexpensive and might well produce some results.


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## HGVCLOVER1 (May 5, 2010)

brp said:


> These statements, while true, are not relevant to the argument at hand. It is part of the rules that resale buyers do not accumulate points toward status, regardless of the fact that _someone_ did pay full price for the points. None of what is written above will help the OP's case just as it wouldn't work for someone who bought 14,000 resale points and wanted Elite status.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



OP's is right...when they first started the "Elite" program if you had bought resale and then agreed to purchase a unit directly from HGVC they would comp you "Elite".  We had this offered to us numerous times (at least 10) especially at the HGVC sales office in Las Vegas.  It just seemed like a waste of money when you can get resales so cheap compared to full price. But the bottom line is with any kind of awards program "*what the program giveth the program can taketh away."*  :deadhorse:


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## kschauberger (May 5, 2010)

I know at one time they use to offer the ability to get the elite status if you purchased another week from HGVC directly when owned a resale already.  I had a few friends do this.  They to have lost their elite status over the last year.  I know that HGVC does have the right to change the program rules at any time without notice.  I am assuming they have done that, as they lost their status at the beginning of April.  They had just enough to be elite.  I think more of you that have done this will start to see this happen as they apparently have changed the rules.  As they audit the accounts more of you will probably see this happen as well.  I don't have any proof from HGVC.  Because this has happened to the person and 2 of my friends I would assume there are more out there and will be more in the future.


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## hvacrsteve (May 5, 2010)

I just know if it was me, I would be in line demanding my money back!
You paid the extra money to get that very perk, if they had not of done it, you would never have purchased it!

I asked for it in writing, never recieved and therfore didn't fall for their untruths.
I believe they will give you a refund or a boat load of bonus points!


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## Sandy VDH (May 6, 2010)

I purchased resale from Hilton and had written into my contract that I obtained Elite Status.  Thanks to this email I went online and noticed that my status is also removed.

Well that department is gone for the day, but I too will be demanding compensation if something that was in my contract is now being removed.  I am assuming it will be restored when that department returns. 

I hope you had something in writing as well.


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## toontoy (May 6, 2010)

Unfortunately even if it was written in the contract they can get around it as its a renewall and not for the life of the ownership. I was reading in a law book, and found that this qualifies as a perk and not the ownership interest purchased. The elite program has the rights to change, to change in any aspect, which would include qualifiying. If it was written in the contract the program rules are still subject to change and Hilton Grand vacations affiliation with Hhonors could be terminated and no benefits there could be enjoyed. 

I think a lawsuit is not going to bring you much luck. Was it in Hilton's best interest to change the requirement and not allow the "piggybacking" I don't think so, was it within their legal right, unfortunatly it was. 

This is one thing with the Timeshare programs that state club offerings are subject to change, legaly Hilton can spin off the HGVC and sell it to Marriott and we could be subject to weeks membership. This is not likely to happen but can happen, they also can spin off resorts and terminate even club built. Another very unlikely thing but when we purchased from Hilton we purchased a week, and we "give" them our week back and pay a membership fee to particiapte in the club. Each resort does have points associated with it. I do not believe but am not 100% sure if they can change point values, I know with new projects they can deem any number of points to a category. 

It basicly "sucks" in my opinion that you payed a heafty fee to get someting that they later turned away. I am not elite but get these calls all the time as I am close to the level but have a resale so I am not very tempted.


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## hvacrsteve (May 6, 2010)

toontoy said:


> Unfortunately even if it was written in the contract they can get around it as its a renewall and not for the life of the ownership.



This would depend on how it is written in the contract!

If it says you are Elite, you are Elite unless they change the program name and call it something else, which they could do and all elites would be gone.

This is going to be and interesting issue and could be long and drawn out.

I know I want even consider going to anymore owner updates, I want even give them the time of day.

The Elite status was the only other thing that might have caused me to purchase points from Hilton direct.  I had considered it several times if I could have gained that, they just saved me a lot of money!


Diamond is the best perk I believe and I have that through AMEX, which is also on shaky ground!


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## Sandy VDH (May 7, 2010)

Without any issue or fuss Member services put me back as Elite Status this morning.  I don't know if they looked up my contract, which I have that states "Qualifies for Elite Status" as a condition of the contract. 

MS Rep did say that they have added some automation that checks and resets Status levels automatically.  She did say that she set my status to locked, which means the system can not override automatically again.

That was easy.  I was ready to battle, armed with my contract, but they just look care of it in under 10 minutues, with them putting me on hold and checking everything out.  They did state yesterday that they do have all contracts online, so it should have been easy to look up if they do.

So at least my Elite status is BACK!


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## jnjn (May 7, 2010)

Thats good news!!  I guess this is a good lesson for anyone thinking about shelling out the big bucks to become Elite.  Better make sure that it is part of the contract.   I doubt I would ever do it but is would be nice to be Elite!!


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## pianodinosaur (May 7, 2010)

Sandy:

Good for you!!!


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## Sandy VDH (May 7, 2010)

.... and my purchase to receive Elite was a resale unit.  I already owned BC and converted it to points.


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## hvacrsteve (May 7, 2010)

Blame it on the computer!

That seems to be the easy way out these days, I am glad they took care of it for you anyways!

Good job!


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## rjp123 (May 7, 2010)

Although I am not Elite, I am glad I  have (just recently) purchased HGVC.


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## Talent312 (May 7, 2010)

rjp123 said:


> Although I am not Elite, I am glad I  have (just recently) purchased HGVC.



Did they forget to mention that new members are required to do a dramatic reading from the Members Guide?
Don't worry, we can schedule that for later.


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## PigsDad (May 7, 2010)

Talent312 said:


> Did they forget to mention that new members are required to do a dramatic reading from the Members Guide?
> Don't worry, we can schedule that for later.


Hey, I haven't had to do mine yet!  When should I schedule the podcast?  

Kurt


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## rjp123 (May 8, 2010)

Talent312 said:


> Did they forget to mention that new members are required to do a dramatic reading from the Members Guide?
> Don't worry, we can schedule that for later.



I read it 3 times before even buying (I even went through it with my SO as a sanity check).  Reviewing it sealed the HGVC deal.


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## Sandy VDH (May 8, 2010)

I wonder what the OP Norm151 result's are?  Did you get your status back?


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## JonathanIT (May 11, 2010)

Sandy Lovell said:


> So at least my Elite status is BACK!


Very good news indeed!  I'm glad this was just an "error" and not a policy change, it would reflect _terribly_ on HGVC if they started breaking promises like this and yanking status, IMHO.

I am just a "basic" Elite member right now, and I plan to eventually add some more points buying resale.  But it has always been in the back of my mind that I might someday want to upgrade to Elite Premier and approach HGVC with my combination of resale and Elite points and see what kind of deal they would offer if I were to buy from them again.  I know they make these offers frequently to many owners and their reputation would have gone out the window if they reneged in such a devious way.  I for one would never consider buying from them again.  And I know many here already feel that way, but I happen to be a potential future customer!

Congrats on being Elite again!


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## hvacrsteve (May 21, 2010)

So OP did you get it back or not?

We all want to know!


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