# Should I agree to inherit Wyndham points?



## amerikrainian (Dec 5, 2019)

Hi everybody. I found this site years ago when I was considering buying resale points. Then life changed. 

Here's the deal:

My parents own a little over 500,000 Wyndham points. (Developer points, that what it's called when they paid retail, right?). They're VIP. (I don't know what kind of vip, as I've seen vipp and some other terms on here.) They are preparing they're wills and wants to split the points between my sibling and me. And I'm not sure if we should accept them. (I have another question about vip, but I'll make another thread for it.)

We're still a family with a lot of kids, so money is money (MFs are a big consideration), small rooms are cramped, and the last-minute discount (60 days?) is essential. Pluis, I'm worried that if it doesn't fit us when it's our own timeshare instead of my parents', we won't be able to escape from under it without paying a bunch of money to sell it. So here's my questions:

1. Are there points resorts with cheaper MFs than Wyndham? 

2. With only 250K points, or less, do I get any discount at the 60 day mark? (Or is that only a vip perk?)

3. Does ownership of wyndham allow me to take advantage of any other super cheap travel deals like any other wyndham deals, or the last-minute RCI stuff I read about (not sure what it's called)?

Regarding number 3, Vacations where I have to attend a sales presentation don't count. We went to exactly ONE of those, years ago as broke newlyweds while vacationing on my parents' points. That was the last time EVER.

Thanks for your help.


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## T-Dot-Traveller (Dec 5, 2019)

amerikrainian said:


> Hi everybody. I found this site years ago when I was considering buying resale points. Then life changed.
> 
> Here's the deal:
> 
> ...


I am a TUG member - read the Wyndham forum - here is  a quick response - that can be added to by Wyndham owners with more specific knowledge

#1 - splitting may devolve the VIP status VIP HAS VALUE , and your parents paid to get it . Wyndham owners will likely advise a different plan / you could both be added  .

#2 - see above

#3 - Wyndham accounts have a free RCI account since they own RCI .

Wyndham has Ovations which does take back fully paid for ownerships  at no charge . HOWEVER - that would be a terrible waste of  a great vacation ownership.
ESPECIALLY one with fully paid for VIP status .

Your parents are hoping to gift their children and grandchildren  - wonderful future vacations . PLEASE PLEASE  make sure it is done in a way that preserves the VIP status for this future use .


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## Grammarhero (Dec 5, 2019)

amerikrainian said:


> Hi everybody. I found this site years ago when I was considering buying resale points. Then life changed.
> 
> Here's the deal:
> 
> ...


You should accept.  I’d would.

1.  Wyndham Has pretty cheap Mf.  250k is about $1.2k a year.
2. Id imagine you get VIP discounts.  At 60 day mark, your 250k pts is actually 400k pts.
3.  Last calls don’t require sales presentations.
4. Since you parents bought developer, If you ever want to give back to Wyndham for free, Wyndham will actually give you three (3) free years pts usage.

It seems you’re willing to learn how to use the system.  Is your sister willing?  If not, parents should probably give just to you.  Ts has a huge learning curve.  Your sister might complain at now being able to book what she wants when she wants.


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## geist1223 (Dec 5, 2019)

If you and your sister get along really well, both of you are willing and able to spend the time to learn the system, split the MF's, and both of you can plan in advance then can you both be named on the Account?


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## jules54 (Dec 6, 2019)

I'd definitely beg your parents to will the points to only one of you. Better yet have your folks put your name on the account NOW. You would then have total control. If your sibling wants to use the points to vacation then figure out exactly what your points cost per thousand. Your sib pays for only the points they want to use, with you capping their amount of points they can use per year at 250,000 unless you need to wrk something out about this for a bigger future family vacation. Example 250,000x7.00 pro thousand 1750.00 for their vacation. Or shorter vacation points times fees.
I own over a 1,600,000 points I'm 65 over the years I have added husband, 3 sons 44,43,42  1 grandchild 23 to my account. None of them are begging for the points after my death lol ok maybe the grandchild. They all have seen the time and wrk I put into finding the best resorts for the least amount of points. I do a lot of rentals. All the kids enjoy using the points and they all pay me for what they use. Great resorts, beautiful fun locations for motel 6 prices.


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## Grammarhero (Dec 6, 2019)

Per another thread, OP’s parents own Silver.  I definitely think OP should insist on being the only owner.  TS have a huge learning curve.


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## bobinmich (Dec 6, 2019)

See if you can "buy" your sibling out....you get the 500k points/VIP....you give them 5k cash or something....win win for everyone.


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## raygo123 (Dec 6, 2019)

Grammarhero said:


> Per another thread, OP’s parents own Silver.  I definitely think OP should insist on being the only owner.  TS have a huge learning curve.


No true.  It depends on when they purchased.  They could be grandfathered gold.  That used to be the old gold level.  If that is the case it would be a tragedy to split it in half.  Gold VIP is worth slot!

Sent from my Lenovo TB-X103F using Tapatalk


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## Grammarhero (Dec 6, 2019)

raygo123 said:


> No true.  It depends on when they purchased.  They could be grandfathered gold.  That used to be the old gold level.  If that is the case it would be a tragedy to split it in half.  Gold VIP is worth slot!
> 
> Sent from my Lenovo TB-X103F using Tapatalk


She logged into their account and confirmed it's silver.  https://tugbbs.com/forums/index.php...ts-on-wyndham-or-vacations-in-general.298445/


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## 55plus (Dec 6, 2019)

Keep it intact. Buy your sibiling(s) out if necessary to keep it intact. Buy them out at resell value (pennies on the dollar) not at developer pricing.


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## Sandi Bo (Dec 6, 2019)

My first question is - are you SURE they are only silver?  If purchase years ago -- they should be gold. I would first triple check when they purchased and make sure Wyndham hasn't messed up along the way and demoted them.  The difference is significant.  Hasn't it only been a few years since the tiers changed?

Your situation is similar to mine (only my Dad was VIP Platinum, so even more of a no brainer for me). Rule #1, don't ask any salespeople for advice on this. They don't know and will guess - they will tell your parents no problem to split, etc).  One of my bigger hurdles was getting my Dad to stop talking to sales people. They all loved him (he bought 1.4M developer points) and he loved going to presentations. And they would say things that weren't true and he had to learn to believe me, not them.

It is imperative the 500K stay together to keep whatever VIP status you have. If you split it, you have lost your VIP status, which is what your parents paid big bucks for.

My Dad's is in a trust. That is not necessary but it has worked well for our situation. There are 5 of us, we all get along - it would only take 1 person to rock the boat. All made a decision to be 'in'. If they weren't in, they would have gotten nothing -- because the points split up won't meet the requirement for the VIP tiers. They become worth the $1 resale stuff you see on ebay and you lose your VIP. They are still developer points but don't qualify for anything. The VIP is what you want to preserve.  We also agreed that I would manage it (one person has to). I wanted to. I started renting just to cover our maintenance fees. They pay me to use whatever points they want to. We started with 1.4M and it was never a problem to have enough points for whatever someone wanted to use it for individually.  We typically have big family reunions, and I book everything and know what we have to work with.

One of very first things I did was purchase a very small resale contract, I put my Dad's trust and all 5 of us kids on that contract. That put everyone on the account (without spending the money to retitle the original (3) deeds. A much cheaper option.

Where do your parents own and what are the maintenance fees?  That will play into this as well.  If it's only silver and the maintenance fees are high, you may rethink things as well. That I might walk away from. My Dad loved Ocean Walk and you couldn't convince him he didn't need to own there (and a couple other not terrible mf's but not great). Our maintenance fees are a little high, but not awful. I've since supplemented with some lower maintenance contracts to bring the average down a little.  You do have to take into consideration the maintenance fees.  Any changes to the existing deeds (say you wanted to trade a high maintenance fee contract in for a lower maintenance fee one) - it will cost you dearly. Nothing with Wyndham is free. It requires a purchase - I think fair to say expect to spend $20K to trade into a different resort. You have to buy more points, you always trade up in number of owned points.

All that said.  If they will it to you, you do not have to accept it. No one can make you inherit anything. It's nice to have time now to become more informed and decide, with your sister, if you are interested. And if you are, to learn more about it. The timeshare stuff is complicated, that's for sure.

And as mentioned above. There is Ovations. Never a guarantee the program will still be there, but today almost for certain you could give it back to Wyndham and walk away if you accepts it and later decided you didn't want it. Assuming it is paid for (you need to confirm that as well). Ovations may not take everything, but I can't imagine they wouldn't take a developer purchase back.  A couple years ago every contract of ours was eligible (including my resale).  I know some people have said their contracts didn't qualify, but I don't know why. 

Keep your questions coming. You'll get plenty of opinions here. And if you run by this group what you decide to do, you'll get honest answers. Remember it's free advice and at some point you might want to run things by a lawyer and/or accountant.

Good luck!


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## paxsarah (Dec 6, 2019)

Sandi Bo said:


> Hasn't it only been a few years since the tiers changed?



It was February 2012.


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## Sandi Bo (Dec 6, 2019)

paxsarah said:


> It was February 2012.


WOW - time flies!

I'm less versed on silver than gold and platinum.  That makes it less of a must-do for me.  Back to looking at maintenance fees, is it paid for. And then deciding if it's worth it for silver (assuming it's silver).


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## amerikrainian (Dec 6, 2019)

Originally, they bought (first set):

Williamsburg, Kingsgate (1 week, later converted to 154k)

Then (second set):

Lake Lure ( about .5 weeks)

Branson, MO ?

Flagstaff, Airzona ?

Fairfield Glade, TN ?

Bonnett Creek, FL ?

Later they converted all of the second set into 353,500 points, after selling some points back to wyndham.

So now they have 353,500 in "Club Wyndham" (she says it's a group, IDK this) and 154k as a separate contract.


---


Mom says she was tricked and she lost gold status when she sold back some of those points (several years ago). They said she would keep gold status. I understand they lied to her, but she fought for a while to get back gold, and they didn't give it. Is that the kind of demotion that you're referring to, something that could be "fixed" or reinstated?


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## raygo123 (Dec 6, 2019)

amerikrainian said:


> Originally, they bought (first set):
> 
> Williamsburg, Kingsgate (1 week, later converted to 154k)
> 
> ...


No that cannot be fixed. You would have to buy to the next level.

Sent from my Lenovo TB-X103F using Tapatalk


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## Grammarhero (Dec 6, 2019)

amerikrainian said:


> Originally, they bought (first set):
> 
> Williamsburg, Kingsgate (1 week, later converted to 154k)
> 
> ...


Kingsgate has cheap MF.  WBC is expensive.  Can you upload a screenshot of the MF summary?


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## SNA27 (Dec 6, 2019)

Sandi Bo said:


> My first question is - are you SURE they are only silver?  If purchase years ago -- they should be gold. I would first triple check when they purchased and make sure Wyndham hasn't messed up along the way and demoted them.  The difference is significant.  Hasn't it only been a few years since the tiers changed?
> 
> Your situation is similar to mine (only my Dad was VIP Platinum, so even more of a no brainer for me). Rule #1, don't ask any salespeople for advice on this. They don't know and will guess - they will tell your parents no problem to split, etc).  One of my bigger hurdles was getting my Dad to stop talking to sales people. They all loved him (he bought 1.4M developer points) and he loved going to presentations. And they would say things that weren't true and he had to learn to believe me, not them.
> 
> ...




Thank you for such an informative post!

This subject is of great interest to me. I am in the same position as your father was. I have raised it at almost every presentation since 2018. I added two of my sons' names to a Flagstaff FW piggyback sold to me at Sedona. They never even explained the benefit of adding their names in terms of not having to use guest reservations for my sons! Like I said elsewhere, that's the only smart thing I did wrt Wyndham without even realizing it! I was more interested in making it easy for them to inherit my TS. I have been asking about adding their names to my Wyndham contracts with only my name and my wife's. It was not possible to add their names at the time of purchase because they were not with us.

I was always ASSURED by the sales guys that the Platinum status would be inherited by both sons even if I were to split my ownership between them. One pushy guy at National Harbor was even trying to call the support team on this question and my PIC's inheritability. All I have to do is to my sons' names on the PIC titles and all the contracts. My Platinum (or, Founder) status will be grandfathered in for each of my sons!

So much misinformation! The directory does not seem to address any of these issues. Is there a link you can provide where I can obtain a greater understanding!

Another thing, I have not charged my son for all the reservations. But he agrees that it would be only fair to his brother if he paid something. I am thinking of dividing my TOTAL MF including PIC MFs/ Total Points to arrive at a rate per point or 1000 points. That would be the rock bottom price. But adding some ROI on investment would be fairer in case of unequal usage. I haven't figured that one yet!


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## 55plus (Dec 6, 2019)

SNA27 said:


> I was was always ASSURED by the sales guys that the Platinum status would be inherited by both sons even if I were to split my ownership between them. One pushy guy at National Harbor was even trying to call the support team on this question and my PIC's inheritability. All I have to do is to my sons' names on the PIC titles and all the contracts. My Platinum (or, Founder) status will be grandfathered in for each of my sons!


Unless you have it in writing don't count on VIPP if you split it up. If you have it in writing they will eliminate the VIPP status anyway. You need at least 1 million developer purchased points in an account to be VIPP. I inherited my parent's VIPP purchased in the early '90s. I had no problem transferring it to me. Keep it intact.


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## SNA27 (Dec 6, 2019)

Grammarhero said:


> Kingsgate has cheap MF.  WBC is expensive.  Can you upload a screenshot of the MF summary?



WBS is expensive? I just bought 84k in July. It seemed comparable to CWA MF.

FINANCIAL INFO tab shows:




Flagstaff is a killer! I was lied to about this!
They said HOA will be about $50 per month or $600 per year! Turns out to be $83 per month. Had they sold me the 186K FW, it would have been a reasonable $5.44+0.60 = 6.04 per 1000.


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## Grammarhero (Dec 6, 2019)

SNA27 said:


> WBS is expensive? I just bought 84k in July. It seemed comparable to CWA MF.
> 
> FINANCIAL INFO tab shows:
> View attachment 15336
> ...


Holy crap.  Flagstaff is murder.


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## Grammarhero (Dec 6, 2019)

SNA27 said:


> WBS is expensive? I just bought 84k in July. It seemed comparable to CWA MF.
> 
> FINANCIAL INFO tab shows:
> View attachment 15336
> ...


Smokey Mtn is $5.47.  Plus 0.6, that makes $6.07.  Can you double check Flagstaff?  I am in disbelief.


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## Grammarhero (Dec 6, 2019)

SNA27 said:


> WBS is expensive? I just bought 84k in July. It seemed comparable to CWA MF.
> 
> FINANCIAL INFO tab shows:
> View attachment 15336
> ...


@jjking42 and @paxsarah, how can the $10.10 MF even happen?


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## SNA27 (Dec 6, 2019)

The aggregate picture is not too bad! Smoky Mountain contract doesn't show up yet!


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## SNA27 (Dec 6, 2019)

Coming back to the subject of this thread, should I add my sons to all my contracts? What are the fees? What's the benefit since they are already on the account? But I do want to make it easy for them!

One reason to do it would be to explicitly disinherit my oldest son who is disabled. I am able to do this on my bank and brokerage accounts by adding the younger two sons as primary beneficiaries on our joint accounts and as contingent beneficiaries on our IRAs. I haven't figured out how to do this on our real properties yet! Set up a Trust or write a will?


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## ausman (Dec 6, 2019)

SNA27 said:


> Coming back to the subject of this thread, should I add my sons to all my contracts? What are the fees? What's the benefit since they are already on the account? But I do want to make it easy for them!



I don't see any benefit if they are on your account. By being so they can have use of the points.

To re-title each would be $299 for Wyndham and probably around $200 each for someone to handle the filings etc. About $1500 + 1000 maybe for the five.

Re-titling makes them responsible for MF etc also, circumstances may change for them and if you are healthy and well probably best evaluated sometime in the future.


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## Grammarhero (Dec 6, 2019)

SNA27 said:


> Coming back to the subject of this thread, should I add my sons to all my contracts? What are the fees? What's the benefit since they are already on the account? But I do want to make it easy for them!
> 
> One reason to do it would be to explicitly disinherit my oldest son who is disabled. I am able to do this on my bank and brokerage accounts by adding the younger two sons as primary beneficiaries on our joint accounts and as contingent beneficiaries on our IRAs. I haven't figured out how to do this on our real properties yet! Set up a Trust or write a will?


Can you double-check your Flagstaff to make sure it's correct.


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## paxsarah (Dec 6, 2019)

Grammarhero said:


> Flagstaff is murder.



This is the peril of converted fixed weeks. I own a 182k converted fixed week contract, which would be a prime 2BR loft. That same unit in quiet season is 105k - but the MFs would be the same. My total isn't exactly the same as SNA's, but my 2019 total HOA fee was $822 (I haven't gotten 2020 yet) which comes to $4.52/k. A quiet week in the same unit would come to $7.82/k.


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## Grammarhero (Dec 6, 2019)

paxsarah said:


> This is the peril of converted fixed weeks. I own a 182k converted fixed week contract, which would be a prime 2BR loft. That same unit in quiet season is 105k - but the MFs would be the same. My total isn't exactly the same as SNA's, but my 2019 total HOA fee was $822 (I haven't gotten 2020 yet) which comes to $4.52/k. A quiet week in the same unit would come to $7.82/k.


You think it would be worth it for @SNA27 to call corporate, complain, talk about how he is Founders, and hopefully they'll give him another 100k bonus pts a year?  Of course, they'll want him to spend 20k to fix the bad MF, but he just has to be stern, angry, and demanding.


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## Grammarhero (Dec 6, 2019)

paxsarah said:


> This is the peril of converted fixed weeks. I own a 182k converted fixed week contract, which would be a prime 2BR loft. That same unit in quiet season is 105k - but the MFs would be the same. My total isn't exactly the same as SNA's, but my 2019 total HOA fee was $822 (I haven't gotten 2020 yet) which comes to $4.52/k. A quiet week in the same unit would come to $7.82/k.


delete.  duplicate.


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## Sandi Bo (Dec 6, 2019)

amerikrainian said:


> Originally, they bought (first set):
> 
> Williamsburg, Kingsgate (1 week, later converted to 154k)
> 
> ...



Is it all Club Wyndham Access now?  I don't know anything about CWA.  All of our contracts are deeded.   Here's what my account looks like:





My contracts are all CLUB WYNDHAM Select  (if I expand on each contract they are UDI)





It doesn't matter what they started with, what matters is what they own now. And I'm guessing it's CWA. 

And I'm guessing they were Gold until their last transaction.  They would have qualified as Gold until 2012 (when the tier minimums changed). They should have been grandfathered in at Gold.  But then during the last transaction - when the minimum for Gold was likely 700K, they lost their Gold.  I personally would fight tooth and nail for my Gold status if that is what happened.  The differences are significant.


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## bobinmich (Dec 6, 2019)

That's why it is VERY important to check MF for each individual place BEFORE making the purchase.  The MF costs go from very LOW to very HIGH.


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## jules54 (Dec 6, 2019)

Once when I was having a major issue, which most issues wth Wyndham are. The Tugger told me to email Michael Brown the CEO and copied Jeff Zorvich(I think). I wrote on and on about how the Vacations Counselors know nothing and give the wrong information. Of course I went on about how much maintenance yearly I paid which at the time was almost 9,000.00 per year. Worked great Mr. Brown turned it over to an agent who had the power it fix things and help me. All was taken care of and I even received help I didn't think was possible. Ya know the sayin the squeaky wheel get the grease. I find that usually is the case. Unfortunately it's stressful to always have to squeak to get help.


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## Grammarhero (Dec 6, 2019)

jules54 said:


> Once when I was having a major issue, which most issues wth Wyndham are. The Tugger told me to email Michael Brown the CEO and copied Jeff Zorvich(I think). I wrote on and on about how the Vacations Counselors know nothing and give the wrong information. Of course I went on about how much maintenance yearly I paid which at the time was almost 9,000.00 per year. Worked great Mr. Brown turned it over to an agent who had the power it fix things and help me. All was taken care of and I even received help I didn't think was possible. Ya know the sayin the squeaky wheel get the grease. I find that usually is the case. Unfortunately it's stressful to always have to squeak to get help.


What is Michael Brown’s email?  Unfortunately @SNA27 got a 105k Flagstaff at $10.1/1k MF, but was promised $6/1k.  He’s paid $183k in developer pts.  I think Mr. Brown can help him out.


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## jules54 (Dec 6, 2019)

Grammarhero said:


> What is Michael Brown’s email?  Unfortunately @SNA27 got a 105k Flagstaff at $10.1/1k MF, but was promised $6/1k.  He’s paid $183k in developer pts.  I think Mr. Brown can help him out.



If someone PM me asking I will give it to them if I can find it. No way am I posting it on a public forum. As someone stated Wyndham does have people read these threads. I'm not buying trouble potential. I've got way too much to lose.


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## SNA27 (Dec 7, 2019)

I complained about this when I visited Flagstaff to see what exactly I had bought!


Grammarhero said:


> What is Michael Brown’s email?  Unfortunately @SNA27 got a 105k Flagstaff at $10.1/1k MF, but was promised $6/1k.  He’s paid $183k in developer pts.  I think Mr. Brown can help him out.



You're a trooper! A very close second choice for referral reward! You're alright in my book! A brave and selfless Don Quixote tilting at windmills!


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## SNA27 (Dec 7, 2019)

jules54 said:


> Once when I was having a major issue, which most issues wth Wyndham are. The Tugger told me to email Michael Brown the CEO and copied Jeff Zorvich(I think). I wrote on and on about how the Vacations Counselors know nothing and give the wrong information. Of course I went on about how much maintenance yearly I paid which at the time was almost 9,000.00 per year. Worked great Mr. Brown turned it over to an agent who had the power it fix things and help me. All was taken care of and I even received help I didn't think was possible. Ya know the sayin the squeaky wheel get the grease. I find that usually is the case. Unfortunately, it's stressful to always have to squeak to get help.



Madam, With all due respect, is that a good way to run a corporation? A corporation where a CEO must get involved in regulatory issues that were inspired by his overarching business model? Perhaps he should rethink his business model that created the environment for such abuse!

Why do I have to talk to the CEO to get relief from my mistreatment when I know his business model created the environment for my mistreatment! Why should I seek his benevolence to give me a reprieve? What about others in a similar circumstance? Do we all have to SQUEAK to get the oil? I bet a CLASS-ACTION lawsuit will get his attention!

This whole setup is rotten! And the requirement to seek special dispensation individually is the hallmark of a banana republic or kingdom where you beg the King for special favors! Ridiculous!

All animals are equal! But some are more equal than others!


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## Sandi Bo (Dec 7, 2019)

[


SNA27 said:


> Madam, With all due respect, is that a good way to run a corporation? A corporation where a CEO must get involved in regulatory issues that were inspired by his overarching business model? Perhaps he should rethink his business model that created the environment for such abuse!
> 
> Why do I have to talk to the CEO to get relief from my mistreatment when I know his business model created the environment for my mistreatment! Why should I seek his benevolence to give me a reprieve? What about others in a similar circumstance? Do we all have to SQUEAK to get the oil? I bet a CLASS-ACTION lawsuit will get his attention!
> 
> ...


It is the Wyndham way. With all things Wyndham, nothing is consistent. Wyndham pretty does what they want. Your account can be adjusted at any time (you may or may not be notified), it can also be frozen/suspended. Reservations can be cancelled any time.  Wyndham does whatever they want whenever they feel like it. People toss around filing Class Action suits all the time, and some do win. But a lot do not. I'm not interested in spending the time. It is in my best interest to accept the things I cannot change and stay within the guidelines as best I can. We use the ownership well, try to stay out of trouble, and enjoy a lot of nice vacations along the way.



SNA27 said:


> So much misinformation! The directory does not seem to address any of these issues. Is there a link you can provide where I can obtain a greater understanding!
> 
> Another thing, I have not charged my son for all the reservations. But he agrees that it would be only fair to his brother if he paid something. I am thinking of dividing my TOTAL MF including PIC MFs/ Total Points to arrive at a rate per point or 1000 points. That would be the rock bottom price. But adding some ROI on investment would be fairer in case of unequal usage. I haven't figured that one yet!


I don't know of a good place to find good information on inheritance details. There is Ovations which has a program that deals with transfer of ownership to family members called Tribute. I looked into Tribute at one time, but Wyndham wasn't sure what would happen to existing reservations during the transfer process. My best guess was they would be cancelled and I don't ever see myself being in a position of not having any reservations on the books. I certainly could not risk having reservations cancelled.  I've talked to a lot of people to decide how I think things work. I could be wrong, but in the case of splitting points and such, I don't think so. Always remember this is free advice and what we've all figured out along the way. And always remember things could change tomorrow with Wyndham. Who knows what changes the new program will bring.

As far as dealing with family. We've tried to keep things simple. For us, everyone has equal opportunity to own and or use the points. Usage is all over the map, some are on the account but have never used it personally (except for big family reunions which I book - sometimes my Dad paid, other times I've figured it out based on our maintenance fees). I have a nephew who regularly spends a weekend in Newport, who drove to Florida and booked 1 night at National Harbor, 1 night at Ocean Walk (places with availability along his route), etc. I have a niece who said no thanks, we want to own our own (turning down unlimited use of VIPP). I suspect the nephew is the one that will some day take all this over, we'll see.  But to determine rates, super simple here -- I take the total paid divided by the points, figure average maintenance fees per point, and that is what family pays each time they use.  (Of course there are exceptions, whenever someone takes my mother somewhere I don't charge them, that kind of stuff. But my choice. I pay the bills).


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## Grammarhero (Dec 7, 2019)

SNA27 said:


> Madam, With all due respect, is that a good way to run a corporation? A corporation where a CEO must get involved in regulatory issues that were inspired by his overarching business model? Perhaps he should rethink his business model that created the environment for such abuse!
> 
> Why do I have to talk to the CEO to get relief from my mistreatment when I know his business model created the environment for my mistreatment! Why should I seek his benevolence to give me a reprieve? What about others in a similar circumstance? Do we all have to SQUEAK to get the oil? I bet a CLASS-ACTION lawsuit will get his attention!
> 
> ...


TBH, as a resale buyer, Wyndham won’t do crap for me.  They do treat their developer buyers better, as they should.


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## bestpal38 (Dec 7, 2019)

Question to you on this. Doesnt Ovations, or whatever it is, put them in the kids names for free?? The couple hundred dollars they normally charge is waived I thought. Tribute or Ovations?? They want to know they will have long time owners.


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## paxsarah (Dec 7, 2019)

Grammarhero said:


> What is Michael Brown’s email?





jules54 said:


> If someone PM me asking I will give it to them if I can find it. No way am I posting it on a public forum.



Perhaps if you search the forum you’ll find it’s been posted here publicly before.


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## jules54 (Dec 7, 2019)

SNA27 said:


> Madam, With all due respect, is that a good way to run a corporation? A corporation where a CEO must get involved in regulatory issues that were inspired by his overarching business model? Perhaps he should rethink his business model that created the environment for such abuse!
> 
> Why do I have to talk to the CEO to get relief from my mistreatment when I know his business model created the environment for my mistreatment! Why should I seek his benevolence to give me a reprieve? What about others in a similar circumstance? Do we all have to SQUEAK to get the oil? I bet a CLASS-ACTION lawsuit will get his attention!
> 
> ...



Through years of dealing with Wyndham and my other timeshare company's I'll try any avenue to get what I want done. As far as banana republic and Islamic hell hole comment. Wyndham is a business if they run it screwed up unfortunately that's the business. Wyndham owners are not created equal. As far as all members getting the same treatment what is THIS communism? In a democracy you have the opportunity to work hard to be the best or get the best.


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## Sandi Bo (Dec 7, 2019)

bestpal38 said:


> Question to you on this. Doesnt Ovations, or whatever it is, put them in the kids names for free?? The couple hundred dollars they normally charge is waived I thought. Tribute or Ovations?? They want to know they will have long time owners.


My understanding is Tribute facilitates transferring ownership to qualified family members.  For no fees.  Not adding new members to an existing contract.  Has anyone ever added someone without paying the $299 fee?  I don't that's an option.

BTW - While I have it in front of me, the number I have for Ovations/Tribute is 800-251-8736.

* Updated - just found this number for Ovations, I would use this: 855-312-9040


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## bobinmich (Dec 7, 2019)

SNA27 said:


> I complained about this when I visited Flagstaff to see what exactly I had bought!
> 
> 
> You're a trooper! A very close second choice for referral reward! You're alright in my book! A brave and selfless Don Quixote tilting at windmills!



even if you ARE a parasite!


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## bnoble (Dec 7, 2019)

As others have mentioned, you do *not* want them to split the ownership. It should be willed in its entirety to one or both of you. That said....



amerikrainian said:


> We're still a family with a lot of kids, so money is money (MFs are a big consideration), small rooms are cramped, and the last-minute discount (60 days?) is essential. Pluis, I'm worried that if it doesn't fit us when it's our own timeshare instead of my parents', we won't be able to escape from under it without paying a bunch of money to sell it.


Based on what you are writing here, I would advise you to suggest that your sibling be named the benificiary of the Wyndham ownership. It sounds like at least right now, there isn't a lot of discretionary income for you, but timeshare works best when you can spend some multiple of the annual fees every year without putting any strain on any other component of your budget including savings for retirement, kids' education, etc.

Why some multiple? Because the annual fees only pay for lodging. You have to get there. Are the resorts you have in mind within driving distance, or would you have to fly? Will you need a rental car? How big? How many people are you buying tickets for? Once you are there, you have to eat. True, having a kitchen means that can be less expensive, but you won't have your fully-stocked pantry, and you will still probably eat out more often than you do at home. Then, what are you going to do when you get there? Some destinations have plenty of free and inexpensive things nearby (e.g. beach locations) but others do not (e.g. Orlando).

Of course, your circumstances can change, and that might change what you'd prefer your parents to do. This was certainly true for me. When we were starting out, we had some educational loans, a new mortgage, a new kid (and then a second one), and not a lot of money left over. We were budgeting pretty carefully those first few years. In those days our vacations were long weekends in drive-to places during shoulder seasons when things were less expensive. We did one or two larger ones, but we worked hard to squeeze every dollar out of them. However, with time, our incomes went up but our mortgage didn't; the loans were slowly paid off, and we were able to start expanding our vacation budget. When we were able to do that, timeshares purchased inexpensively were a way to do that with good value.


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## SNA27 (Dec 7, 2019)

jules54 said:


> Through years of dealing with Wyndham and my other timeshare company's I'll try any avenue to get what I want done. As far as banana republic and Islamic hell hole comment. Wyndham is a business if they run it screwed up unfortunately that's the business. Wyndham owners are not created equal. As far as all members getting the same treatment what is THIS communism? In a democracy you have the opportunity to work hard to be the best or get the best.



It is in communist/socialist states, apparatchiks create a lot of inconveniences and stumbling blocks for even the simplest of things! And you need connections to influential people to pave a clear road for you!
All are equal, but some are more equal than others! Been there, seen that! America is the glorious exception!

I hate calling customer service for anything. They haven't even implemented a call-back service like Amazon or Southwest! Moreover, they never seem to be able to do anything more than what you can do online for yourself! My personal vacation guide has never once picked up my call or called back when I have left a message. Calling the VIP number has been worse than the regular number, in my experience.
As far as other departments are concerned, it has never been consistent. It all depends on who you get! Luck of the draw! I am still waiting for Title services to call me back as promised! 

They say calls are recorded to improve service, but apparently, nobody ever listens to them!


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## SNA27 (Dec 7, 2019)

bobinmich said:


> even if you ARE a parasite!



Hmmm! Borrowing a cliche from David Duke types, I don't hate parasites, I know a lot of them! Some of my best friends are parasites!


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## amerikrainian (Dec 8, 2019)

bnoble said:


> As others have mentioned, you do *not* want them to split the ownership. It should be willed in its entirety to one or both of you. That said....
> 
> ...the annual fees only pay for lodging. You have to get there. Are the resorts you have in mind within driving distance, or would you have to fly? Will you need a rental car? How big? How many people are you buying tickets for? Once you are there, you have to eat. True, having a kitchen means that can be less expensive, but you won't have your fully-stocked pantry, and you will still probably eat out more often than you do at home. Then, what are you going to do when you get there? Some destinations have plenty of free and inexpensive things nearby (e.g. beach locations) but others do not (e.g. Orlando)...



FWIW We drive everywhere. That's a part of having a big family. We bring groceries with us and, when we purchase more food, we buy the same stuff as we do at home. We rarely do the amusement parks, and expensive attractions. Generally, a vacation to us is a change of scenery, with a beautiful outdoors, where momma doesn't have to clean so much, and the kids argue less because they're so thrilled be be somewhere else : )

But yes, it's probably going to be best to hand it over to him, if he wants part/all of it. We have a time to talk today. 

---

And I know there's always the issue of Wynham's less-than-ethical selling environment/policies. We are quite aware of it, and I am reminded evertytime we go to check in. They say, "Oh just go over to that smiling person for your parking pass." as if the check-in person couldn't have given it to me easily.

Then I ask the smiling person for my pass, and they say, "Oh just fill out your details on this paper while i get it." (including phone number so they can call me and email so they can email me.)

So I say, "No, I don't think so. I only need the pass." 

Then smiling person, a bit shocked, asks about who's with me and tailors his/her presentation to that. They might even ask my kids, "Where would you like to go?" (A reference to the discounts I'll get if I attend a sales session.)

I've taught my kids to say, "I just want to enjoy the beach/enjoy the outdoors." Ha ha. Geez.

In that environment, I wouldn't trust anyone who is trying to sell me something.


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## J Man (Dec 8, 2019)

Grammarhero said:


> Per another thread, OP’s parents own Silver.  I definitely think OP should insist on being the only owner.  TS have a huge learning curve.



Time-Share does indeed have a "learning curve," but those willing to learn the in's and out's can really log some great vacations!  Our youngest daughter passed away a bit over 2 years ago (32 yo) and I have never, ever regretted one vacation we spent together as a family. We went somewhere (or multiple places) each year and I used my RCI connection, a very-helpful RCI concierge, and timeshare points to send her and her husband to Hawaii for a 2-week honeymoon that was the highlight of her life.

My advice: Take the points, ask lots of questions, resist the 'pitch' to get into a new arrangement, learn about your options, and Go Make Memories!  Good Luck!


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## WiTexan (Dec 8, 2019)

Sandi Bo said:


> My Dad's is in a trust. That is not necessary but it has worked well for our situation. There are 5 of us, we all get along - it would only take 1 person to rock the boat. All made a decision to be 'in'. If they weren't in, they would have gotten nothing -- because the points split up won't meet the requirement for the VIP tiers. They become worth the $1 resale stuff you see on ebay and you lose your VIP. They are still developer points but don't qualify for anything. The VIP is what you want to preserve.  We also agreed that I would manage it (one person has to). I wanted to. I started renting just to cover our maintenance fees. They pay me to use whatever points they want to. We started with 1.4M and it was never a problem to have enough points for whatever someone wanted to use it for individually.  We typically have big family reunions, and I book everything and know what we have to work with.
> 
> One of very first things I did was purchase a very small resale contract, I put my Dad's trust and all 5 of us kids on that contract. That put everyone on the account (without spending the money to retitle the original (3) deeds. A much cheaper option.
> 
> ...


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## Jan M. (Dec 8, 2019)

I've been in Hawaii since you started the threads but am back now and just catching up.

Before you make any final decisions I would make another really strong effort to get your parents gold VIP reinstated. Talk to owner care and keep insisting on speaking to someone at a higher level each time you're told no. And let them know that you would prefer not to have to contact Michael Brown over this but will if they cannot get this fixed. Make it very clear that you won't let this go until they fix it! Be polite but relentless in insisting this get fixed. It works. Mistakes happen and it isn't unusually for it to take repeated phone calls escalating up the chain to get to the right person to get something done.

If you can get the gold VIP reinstated I strongly urge you to keep this if at all possible. If you, your brother and your parents can all chip in for the maintenance fees it might not be too hard on any of you. After all your parents have spent on this it would be a shame to walk away if you can get the gold back.


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## amerikrainian (Dec 8, 2019)

Thanks for chiming in Jan M. Do you really think that they would do anything about it after all this time? What incentive do they have to fix it?

If gold was reinstated, what was the discount back then? It has changed, right?

Somebody else mentioned renting some of the points on Airbnb to pay for the rest of the points. And I've heard people talk about renting them some other way too. But I'm still trying to find out how to research the numbers on that.

It surely would be a shame to let them go. Similar to what J Man said about his daughter, the vacations we've taken over the years have been a huge blessing to us too, and they would have been impossible otherwise. Yet, if i can't afford to keep them, that's life, and they seem to have high MFs compared to others.

Last question, without the VIP silver, there's no type of discount window or any way to play the game to save points, right? Like with resale points. There are no specials or discounts, just the options of smaller rooms and off-season vacations, right? Or am I missing something?

Thanks so much everybody.


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## Grammarhero (Dec 8, 2019)

J Man said:


> Time-Share does indeed have a "learning curve," but those willing to learn the in's and out's can really log some great vacations!  Our youngest daughter passed away a bit over 2 years ago (32 yo) and I have never, ever regretted one vacation we spent together as a family. We went somewhere (or multiple places) each year and I used my RCI connection, a very-helpful RCI concierge, and timeshare points to send her and her husband to Hawaii for a 2-week honeymoon that was the highlight of her life.
> 
> My advice: Take the points, ask lots of questions, resist the 'pitch' to get into a new arrangement, learn about your options, and Go Make Memories!  Good Luck!


So sorry to hear about your daughter.


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## Sandi Bo (Dec 9, 2019)

WiTexan said:


> Hey, Sandi Bo. We're in the same situation with my folks - they have 1.6M points, and we recently retitled their deeds to a family vacation trust. Currently having a problem getting Wyndham to show the owner as the trust, which is important when the trustee and trust beneficiaries change in the future. Am curious how your ownership appears in the Wyndham system...as the trust, or with the name of the trustee?


When I look at ownership details (on myclubwyndham), the owners are the trustees.

The trustee name(s) is added to the account (so for the John Doe Trust dated 1/1/2001, with a trustee of John Doe, John Doe Trustee is what appears in the owner drop-down (and only John Doe can register).  For my husband and I, as I have titled my resale contracts in our trust,  John Doe Trustee and Jane Doe Trustee show up.  

Over my head now, but if yours is a business trust, I think you can only list 2 trustees.  Seems I asked about that long ago. And totally out of my league, as trustees change, you should be able to provide a new certificate of trust to Wyndham, and the trustees listed on the account should be updated (not the deeds themselves, so I would hope no fees).  Beneficiaries are not added to the account (at least not in our case).

That is where our small resale contract helped us out.  On that we have the name of the trust and us five kids.  That allows us five kids to be in the owner drop-down (name for guest confirmation) when booking a reservation.   Otherwise, the only names available are the trustee(s).  You could have done something similar by adding all of your names to one of your contracts (along with the name of your trust). If you don't want to purchase another contract, my guess is you can spend $299 to update just one of your contracts to have the name of the trust and everyone's names. Understanding they could now be financially responsible for the contract (defeating the purpose of your trust, perhaps)?


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## stumahlin (Dec 10, 2019)

*RE:  Should I agree to inherit Wyndham points?*

*Absolutely not.  Sign that letter of disclaimer and bid Wyndham goodbye.*


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## T-Dot-Traveller (Dec 10, 2019)

stumahlin said:


> *RE:  Should I agree to inherit Wyndham points?*
> 
> *Absolutely not.  Sign that letter of disclaimer and bid Wyndham goodbye.*



Suppose Mom & Dad had a fund set up to pay MF for the next 20 years / would you still say no ?


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## Echocabin (Dec 10, 2019)

Someone posted that it's best to NOT deal with salespeople on questions of point levels and other issues but they did not state who to ask or how to access them for the best information. Now I can't find that statement... Do you or anyone else have insight on how to get accurate information for the conversion of points from SVC to Wyndham during the upcoming transition to Wyndham Plus?  Thanks for any help.


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## amerikrainian (Dec 10, 2019)

T-Dot-Traveller said:


> Suppose Mom & Dad had a fund set up to pay MF for the next 20 years / would you still say no ?



They don't. No offense, but dealing with the reality of the choice is complex enough without introducing hypotheticals.


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## Jan M. (Dec 14, 2019)

amerikrainian said:


> Thanks for chiming in Jan M. Do you really think that they would do anything about it after all this time? What incentive do they have to fix it?
> 
> If gold was reinstated, what was the discount back then? It has changed, right?
> 
> ...



The difference between the silver and gold benefits are significant. If your parents were at one time gold and it got lost when they bought more points, although that wasn't supposed to happen, then they would get whatever the current gold benefits are if you can get it reinstated for them.

I suggest sitting down with your parents and have you help them talk to owner care when you make the call. Don't be discouraged into giving up if the first, second or even third person tells you no. Keep requesting to speak to someone at the next higher level.

If either of your parents were 60 years old or older when they made the purchase that didn't keep their gold as it was supposed to have done then you can claim they were taken advantage of and it constitutes elder abuse. If there may have been a language issue involved don't hesitate to use any advantage to press your case.

The difference between silver and gold is that the discount at 60 days increases from 25% to 35% and the upgrade window goes from 30 days to 45 days. The extra 10% savings on the number of points needed can make a lot of difference in what a reservation costs you in the maintenance fees on the number of points you use for a reservation. What you see for upgrades is significantly better at 45 days than 30 days.

Silver doesn't get unlimited transactions but gold does. Those transaction fees are $19 each after the couple of free ones you get with silver. When you are making reservations hoping to get a stay to come together having unlimited transaction fees is a big deal. At many resorts it can be fairly easy to get the Sunday through Thursday stays with the discount and upgrade too. You can book the Friday and Saturday at full points or book the larger unit you need in the discount window if a smaller unit isn't available for the discount and upgrade. Many people are very successful at making stays come together to use as few points as possible. People will build a stay in two to four day increments and that takes more transactions fees if you are having to pay for them on the chance you can make the stay come together. As long as all the pieces of the stay are in exactly the same unit size and type most resorts will do everything they can to keep you in the same unit to keep their housekeeping expenses down.

The number of free guest certificates increases from 5 to 10. At $99 each that is a savings of $495 a year if you are using guest certificates.

Gold can also request specific units when they make a reservation. There are certain resorts we stay at that I want a unit that gives us a view of the ocean, lake, mountains, etc. If you aren't familiar with the unit numbers at a resort you can call the resort to ask them. It helps if you don't call at a time when they are busy checking people in, like don't call between 2pm-6pm.


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## kaljor (Dec 15, 2019)

I will give you my opinion of your original question only.  If there is any way that you and your sibling together can afford the Maintenance Fees, and if you have a good and respectful enough relationship  to not get bogged down in petty differences of opinion, you should eagerly embrace this legacy.

Notice I wrote about a couple of very important factors that only you two can evaluate.

Getting a Wyndham VIP account for free is a very nice thing, either Silver or Gold.  I won't try to sell you on the Wyndham resorts, you have to look that up and see if the locations are desirable to you.  Figuring out an equitable use of the points each year shouldn't be that difficult, there are several ways to do that.  

I'm looking for a solution to a situation that is similar to yours but not exactly the same. It's worth doing whatever is possible to keep an ownership like this.  Buying it now would cost you about $100k.  Or a bit more.

A lifetime of 1 or 2 or 3 week vacation stays for $3000 or $1500 per year (if you split the cost) in near luxury condos instead of hotel rooms is an awesome thing.


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## bnoble (Dec 15, 2019)

kaljor said:


> It's worth doing whatever is possible to keep an ownership like this. Buying it now would cost you about $100k. Or a bit more.


That's what it would cost to replace, but I'm not sure that's what it is worth. For the OP, the question is try to keep this in the family, or let it go and (maybe) someday replace it with a resale Wyndham (or other) ownership. True, you'd lose whatever VIP benefits you would otherwise have, but those might not be all that big of a deal. In my own case, I am normally booking things that are in high demand, so there would be no discount opportunities. Would there be upgrade chances? Maybe, but again I can't count on those so I'd have to book a unit at least large enough to comfortably hold everyone anyway---and we don't use the pull-outs if we can help it.


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