# Income requirements for TS presentation



## SeaJohn (Mar 21, 2012)

We aren't members; we just booked for October at the HGVC, Waikikian for a week's stay with a timeshare presentation.  In the confirmation email we got it lists a requirement of a $125k income.  

We started this process about 8 months ago; at that point we thought we'd be over the $125k, and told the rep yes, but business dropped off and we didn't quite make it.  This past year we were about $4k short of $125k; this year probably won't be any better.

Will they enforce this requirement?  Do we need to call back and cancel?  If so, will we get our money back?


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## ronparise (Mar 21, 2012)

SeaJohn said:


> We aren't members; we just booked for October at the HGVC, Waikikian for a week's stay with a timeshare presentation.  In the confirmation email we got it lists a requirement of a $125k income.
> 
> We started this process about 8 months ago; at that point we thought we'd be over the $125k, and told the rep yes, but business dropped off and we didn't quite make it.  This past year we were about $4k short of $125k; this year probably won't be any better.
> 
> Will they enforce this requirement?  Do we need to call back and cancel?  If so, will we get our money back?



Did they ask you to bring a tax return to prove your income?? if not how will they enforce such a thing

This is a case of dont ask dont tell

Whatever you do, dont buy anything


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## Emi (Mar 21, 2012)

They never check income. They are happy to take your money and extend a loan if your credit is decent. Suggestion before you go, learn all you can about resales here on Tug. Save yourself regrets.


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## natasha5687 (Mar 21, 2012)

SeaJohn said:


> We aren't members; we just booked for October at the HGVC, Waikikian for a week's stay with a timeshare presentation.  In the confirmation email we got it lists a requirement of a $125k income.
> 
> We started this process about 8 months ago; at that point we thought we'd be over the $125k, and told the rep yes, but business dropped off and we didn't quite make it.  This past year we were about $4k short of $125k; this year probably won't be any better.
> 
> Will they enforce this requirement?  Do we need to call back and cancel?  If so, will we get our money back?



I have been asked if I met the income requirement but I have never been asked to prove how much I made to attend a timeshare presentation.  They hound and harrass people to come to their presentations.  I will say that I have never been to a Hawaii presentation but I would not think it is any different.


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## Talent312 (Mar 21, 2012)

TS salesmen fudge their numbers all the time, so what's wrong with fudging yours.
_"Hey, we thought it was an average."_ But in reality, they do not ask.

Remember this adage: "How do you know a TS salesman is lying? His lips are moving."
Just don't move yours, except to say, "Not Interested."


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## linsj (Mar 21, 2012)

I've never been asked my income in a presentation.

Enjoy the stay, but don't buy from the developer. Hilton is a great timeshare system, but buying resale will save you LOTS of money.


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## Passepartout (Mar 21, 2012)

First, Welcome to TUG. No one will ask for verification of income. Second, treat this presentation as an educational opportunity, ONLY! If you read the HGVC and Newbies sections and become familiar with how the developers main objective is to separate you from your money, by the time you go to your presentation, you'll know more about HGVC than the presenter.

The only important rule is that you just don't sign anything. They will try very hard to 'help' you to buy a week right there in Hawaii, where the taxes and Maintenance Fee's are the industry's hightest so that you can exchange into other places. Don't expect them to tell you how to own a week that you bought from a reputable source through TUG- at a low cost resort that allows you to exchange into expensive Hawaii!

Again, Welcome to TUG, and your secret is safe with us. 

Jim


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## icul8rg8r (Mar 21, 2012)

SeaJohn said:


> We aren't members; we just booked for October at the HGVC, Waikikian for a week's stay with a timeshare presentation.  In the confirmation email we got it lists a requirement of a $125k income......
> Will they enforce this requirement?  Do we need to call back and cancel?  If so, will we get our money back?



First of all, LUCKY YOU!  You will LOVE staying at an HGVC property! 

Second of all, welcome to TUG!  You are well ahead of many of us who did their research AFTER the high pressure sales pitch.  If you tell them NO right from the start, you may be able to get out of there in a couple of hours.

We attended an HGVC Sales Presentation on the Big Island last December.  NO, they did NOT ask us to prove our income.  You'll be fine.  No need to cancel or tell them your income has changed.

By the way, it was the first timeshare presentation we've attended where we actually LIKED the product and WANTED to purchase.  We thought we were getting a good deal but when we got home found out we were over-paying by $1000's.  We were able to rescind, and when we got our money back we purchased resale.  Now we're really happy campers!

Enjoy your stay and hopefully you'll learn so much about HGVC that you'll want to buy (RESALE), too!


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## Omne (Mar 21, 2012)

Passepartout said:


> They will try very hard to 'help' you to buy a week right there in Hawaii, where the taxes and Maintenance Fee's are the industry's hightest so that you can exchange into other places.



Second highest, I just got done paying my MF for Hilton Club New York, $3600/14K points


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## SeaJohn (Mar 22, 2012)

Thanks everyone!

One more question: We have 3 kids, and this is a 4 person room.  Our in-laws may be going with us, staying at another hotel, so one of the kids could stay with them.

If the in-laws don't go, and we all 5 stay in this room, do you think that'll be  a problem with HGVC?  We've all 5 stayed in smaller hotel rooms before (e.g. Disney was almost half the size of this room), so space isn't an issue.  

The booking agent said, that "they check heartbeats" to make sure you only have 4 people in your room.  To get a suite which allows more than 4 would be an additional $1500. I'm thinking if we don't all show up at the front desk at check-in, then what they don't know won't hurt them.


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## siesta (Mar 22, 2012)

SeaJohn said:


> Thanks everyone!
> 
> One more question: We have 3 kids, and this is a 4 person room.  Our in-laws may be going with us, staying at another hotel, so one of the kids could stay with them.
> 
> ...


Yes, make sure your kids "get lost" while checking in. What they dont know wont hurt em.


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## jarta (Mar 22, 2012)

Let's see.  You can't meet the minimum income requirement of HGVC and, knowing that only four are allowed in the unit, you a determined to bring five.  Also, you seem to have little interest in buying anything.  All you seem to want is the reduced rate trip to a nice place?

If/when you ever become an owner you will be much more aware that overcrowding of timeshare rooms causes more wear and tear than the budgeted amount is designed to cover.

The minimum income requirement is designed to avoid persons walking away from unpaid annual assessments or mortgage payments.  Unpaid mortgage payments can affect your credit rating and walking away from your MF merely means the other owners will be assessed for the shortfall by increased MF.

I suggest that you will probably get away with overburdening the room and even more probably will be able to finesse the income requirement.  But, I wouldn't feel secure about the stability of my MF if a majority of the owners at the HGVC resort felt that "what they dont know won't hurt em". In the end, the "them" is the other owners at the timeshare resort.  Salty


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## pavlovsdog00 (Mar 22, 2012)

jarta said:


> Let's see.  You can't meet the minimum income requirement of HGVC and, knowing that only four are allowed in the unit, you a determined to bring five.  Also, you seem to have little interest in buying anything.  All you seem to want is the reduced rate trip to a nice place?
> 
> If/when you ever become an owner you will be much more aware that overcrowding of timeshare rooms causes more wear and tear than the budgeted amount is designed to cover.
> 
> ...


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## jarta (Mar 22, 2012)

pavlovsdog00,   ...   You might think that overcrowding of rooms at timeshare resorts, defaulting on mortgages and failing to pay MF are inevitable (like rain or shade) and, therefore, it's all OK as part of gaming the rules of the timeshare resort system.  We disagree.  Salty


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## SeaJohn (Mar 22, 2012)

jarta said:


> Let's see.  You can't meet the minimum income requirement of HGVC and, knowing that only four are allowed in the unit, you a determined to bring five.  Also, you seem to have little interest in buying anything.  All you seem to want is the reduced rate trip to a nice place?
> 
> If/when you ever become an owner you will be much more aware that overcrowding of timeshare rooms causes more wear and tear than the budgeted amount is designed to cover.
> 
> ...



I understand your concerns, but I looked at the email from several months ago when we paid the down payment, and the income requirement then was stated as $110k.  When my wife booked yesterday and paid the remainder, nothing was said about the different income requirement; it came through on the confirmation email.

At this point, there's a nearly certain chance that the in-laws will go, so the extra kid problem should be moot.  The only reason they wouldn't go is in case of a health issue.

In which of *my *posts did I indicate that I "have little interest in buying anything"?


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## jarta (Mar 22, 2012)

SeaJohn,   ...   "In which of *my* posts did I indicate that I "have little interest in buying anything"?"

"Thanks everyone!"  Post No. 10.

Perhaps I misinterpreted your thanking everyone for the advice in Post 10.  Perhaps you were just being polite when you thanked everyone in Post 10 but were not going to follow the advice given earlier in the thread.  

Posts 2-8 recommend you not buy at the presentation or that you buy resale - if anything.  I certainly agree with those posts.  You should not buy during the presentation.  But, if buy you must, you should try buying resale.

Are you really still thinking of buying at the presentation?   Salty


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## siesta (Mar 22, 2012)

jarta said:


> SeaJohn,   ...   "In which of *my* posts did I indicate that I "have little interest in buying anything"?"


jarta, I do not see any of his posts saying "he has no intention of buying *anything*", he can listen to the advice he got from us tuggers, still like the program after the tour, and buy resale. Then he would be a dues paying member as well as contributing to the management arm of HGVC.

As for your comment directed to him by the income requirements, surely if the sales department can make the numbers work when its to their advantage, the one attending shouldnt be lectured by you about it.


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## Remy (Mar 22, 2012)

I go to timeshare presentations because they offer me something for my time. They should expect that I'm there because I've been induced to attend, not because I have some burning desire to buy an overpriced timeshare. 

From what I've seen the income and other requirements are often used to overcome objections. "I don't have the money." Uh, yes you do, you make $125k a year. "I need to discuss it with my wife." Sure, go ahead, she's right here because we require you attend with her. 

I do believe the extra maintenance caused by crowding more into a room than is allowed (often by fire code) is borne by all of us who obey the rules. There's a difference between gaming a system to take advantage of deals and simply shifting costs to other owners.


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## SmithOp (Mar 22, 2012)

Its been my experience at Hawaii presentations the pressure is a lot less and I have been allowed to leave after a 60 min update. I'd be interested to know if l8trg8tr feels the same. 

If things get too tough there is always the easy way out. 
"I'm bidding on an eBay resale, I dont have any spare cash to pay the inflated developer prices".


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## gnorth16 (Mar 22, 2012)

Bring in some resale ads and a list of completed eBay listings.  I'm sure the salespeople know who Seth and Judi are, drop a name and some of their prices if ROFR comes up.

Enjoy your trip and don't wear out the furniture or I'll hunt you down!!!:rofl:


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