# HGVC contradicts timsharing 101?????



## Troopers (Jul 9, 2008)

One of the timesharing 101 principles, if not the primary principle, of most timeshare systems is BUY WHERE YOU WANT TO GO.  I've been looking at HGVC for several weeks now and it seems to me, HGVC tends to contradict this principal.  Most purchase where points are the cheapest regardless if you want to go there or not.

It's not a big deal to me but I find it interesting.


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## lprstn (Jul 9, 2008)

Worldmark also contradicts this theory... great aint it?


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## UWSurfer (Jul 9, 2008)

R Chen said:


> One of the timesharing 101 principles, if not the primary principle, of most timeshare systems is BUY WHERE YOU WANT TO GO.  I've been looking at HGVC for several weeks now and it seems to me, HGVC tends to contradict this principal.  Most purchase where points are the cheapest regardless if you want to go there or not.
> 
> It's not a big deal to me but I find it interesting.



Do MOST???   I think MOST buy from the developer and a good presentation.   Some of us buy where we want, and some of us even factor in the cost of points/mf's.   Some more of us lucked out and were able to do both.

You're right though...it does seem to be a exception that the HGVC system doesn't really penalize one to get the best deal based on $$ and still get to stay pretty much anywhere HGVC have properties.


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## Troopers (Jul 9, 2008)

UWSurfer said:


> Do MOST???   I think MOST buy from the developer and a good presentation.   Some of us buy where we want, and some of us even factor in the cost of points/mf's.   Some more of us lucked out and were able to do both.
> 
> You're right though...it does seem to be a exception that the HGVC system doesn't really penalize one to get the best deal based on $$ and still get to stay pretty much anywhere HGVC have properties.



I did with my Starwood purchase.  I think Starwood, Marriott, DVC and maybe Hyatt owners generally purchase where they want to go.


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## Bill4728 (Jul 10, 2008)

The Timeshare 101 principle of most timeshare systems is BUY WHERE YOU WANT TO GO. Works great with many TS systems which have internal trading.

If you buy HGVC (Worldmark, Club Intrawest, FF ect) which have multiple resorts & where internal trading is the normal way you reserve rooms, then by buying a HGVC unit at LV, you are in fact buying a HGVC unit at all their resort locations. 

What you do not want to do, is buy a TS in someplace like Palm Springs or Orlando and hope that you can trade with RCI or II for the hawaii location you want to visit often.


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## GTLINZ (Jul 10, 2008)

R Chen said:


> One of the timesharing 101 principles, if not the primary principle, of most timeshare systems is BUY WHERE YOU WANT TO GO.  I've been looking at HGVC for several weeks now and it seems to me, HGVC tends to contradict this principal.  Most purchase where points are the cheapest regardless if you want to go there or not.
> 
> It's not a big deal to me but I find it interesting.



Your point is largely true. The exception is that you have to fight to get into some locations at certain times. For example, if you want to go to Hawaii often and want a view you would likely be better off to buy there and use your home reservation. It does cost more, but to some that matters a lot and they are willing to pay more. Don't assume you can always get what you want. 

I like to travel offseason and often less than a week, and tend to be flexible with my travel dates. My reality is that I maximize a smaller number of points and bought based on MFs. I have never stayed where I own. I am living proof of your theory.

I do also believe that HGVC treats their owners better than most. It is a great system. The proble is that there are a limited number of locations they build in. I have successfully used RCI to travel outside of the HGVC system but it has been a lot of work. Affiliate resorts are often hard to get into - some are not. Their inventory ONLY opens up when they turn in their week. By default, HGVC weeks are turned in a 9 months UNLESS the owner makes a home reservation.


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## alwysonvac (Jul 11, 2008)

GTLINZ said:


> Your point is largely true. The exception is that you have to fight to get into some locations at certain times. For example, if you want to go to Hawaii often and want a view you would likely be better off to buy there and use your home reservation. It does cost more, but to some that matters a lot and they are willing to pay more. Don't assume you can always get what you want.



I agree, especially if your vacation time is limited to a school calendar where most of the competition occurs.


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## benjaminb13 (Jul 12, 2008)

R Chen said:


> I did with my Starwood purchase.  I think Starwood, Marriott, DVC and maybe Hyatt owners generally purchase where they want to go.



I think it also depends on your situation ,I am also  from the bay area- and have 2 children. I can only travel when they are out of school.  
When Igo to Hawaii- I want to make sure I stay at least 10-14 days- to make it worth the trip- especially with airfare rates like they are.
If I use ny vegas points only- I may not be guaranteed this- 
This last trip I stayed 14 days and 3 of those were at the bay Club as this affiliate had the only openings available- It would hhave been nice to spend all 14 in HGVC waikoloa. recently it has been difficult to get reservations in Hawaii- the good news is that may change after the construction of kings land and the grand waik.Hopefully more of those who bought cheaper just for the the exchange value of the points, will be able to enjoy Hawaii.

Bottom line is, The value of the the HGVC program is that it has something for everyone- 
If you have flexibility, you can purchase at Flamingo  very inexpensively
and may have a great chance on still vacationing where you want.
If you have children and are more limited travel-wise--- You can also play it safe and buy where you want to go. Or do a little of both. 
So long as you buy RESALE.


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## nolesman98 (Jul 12, 2008)

*Considering HGVC purchase*

A little advise please.


I Live two hours from Orlando.  My wife and I love Orlando, but we also love to travel to other places.  In your opinions, if I were to get a good buy on HGVC week at International Drive or at Sea World,  would I have the same trading power as other HGVC owners with the same point level?  Would I have same or lower trading power with RCI?  Or should I look to buy elsewhere?


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## nolesman98 (Jul 12, 2008)

*another quick question*

I am familiar with the Hyatt system, but I am now trying to understand the HGVC system.  Does HGVC assign each owner a fixed week and unit in their home resort when they buy, or is totally just a floating week within the assigned color season?


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## Talent312 (Jul 12, 2008)

nolesman98 said:


> I Live two hours from Orlando.  My wife and I love Orlando, but we also love to travel to other places.  In your opinions, if I were to get a good buy on HGVC week at International Drive or at Sea World,  would I have the same trading power as other HGVC owners with the same point level?  Would I have same or lower trading power with RCI?  Or should I look to buy elsewhere?



You would have the same trading power with RCI as every other HGVC member, that is, none.  By that I mean, your unit is and will always remain in the HGVC inventory for its use and is not yours to trade.  Instead, HGVC makes exchanges (reservations) for you.  In the HGVC system, all points are equal... it matters not where or what season your unit is in.  An RCI reservation will cost you "x" points depending on the RCI season+unit you reserve, but it is up to HGVC to find you that unit.  Some of us have better luck with this than others, but that only depends on how flexible and how far in advance you plan your trip.



nolesman98 said:


> I am familiar with the Hyatt system, but I am now trying to understand the HGVC system.  Does HGVC assign each owner a fixed week and unit in their home resort when they buy, or is totally just a floating week within the assigned color season?



You will get a deed for a specific week+unit in your home resort; however, it is automatically deposited with HGVC for use in its inventory.  You may never see the inside of "your" unit, 'cuz not even "home reservations" will guarantee you that specific unit, only an additional reservation window for a unit of the same size+season.


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## nolesman98 (Jul 12, 2008)

Is there an RCI chart somewhere that shows how HGVC points convert into RCI?


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## Bill4728 (Jul 12, 2008)

At the very end of the HGVC advice article  link  is the info on how many HGVC points is needed for RCI reservations.


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## nolesman98 (Jul 12, 2008)

Ok.  Thanks all.

I wonder if I could get some comment on people's experiences in trading HGVC to RCI.  Do HGVC members get any sort of priorty?  Are the trades usually fulfilled without much trouble?


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## GTLINZ (Jul 12, 2008)

nolesman98 said:


> Ok.  Thanks all.
> 
> I wonder if I could get some comment on people's experiences in trading HGVC to RCI.  Do HGVC members get any sort of priorty?  Are the trades usually fulfilled without much trouble?



First of all - points are points in HGVC. You have the same rights as any other owner if you own a HGVC built unit (which Orlando is) including if you buy resale (the beauty of HGVC). I have heard that affiliate owners experience trouble borrowing points due to the fact that they are not "automatically" in the system unless the give up their week and decide to pay dues that year (HGVC built owners have no choice about paying club dues). HGVC built units are Orlando, Miami, Hawaii (not Bay club), NY (different rules) and Vegas (not Flamingo) as far as I know. 

You also have access to excess HGVC inventory within 30 days (spotty but there if you work it) so you may decide to use cash to get Orlando reservations within 30 days since you are so close if you are flexible with travel dates. This means you may not need as many points. HGVC in Orlando is International Drive (Tuscany, we LOVE that place), SeaWorld and the new Ruby Lakes (under construction). Cash prices are at least partially non refundable are are generally (weekday/weekend) $60/80 studio, $80/100 1br, $100/120 2 br, $130/150 3 br a night. Any cancellation with 6 days is a complete loss.

As stated before, you do have to go thru HGVC counselors to trade into RCI. Technically, you can get last minute RCI intentory also but the bottom line is that you do NOT have a RCI logon account and will miss the real deals. And HGVC is a good trader in RCI (I think to some degree they run it).

I am very flexible on travel dates and have booked the a 2br at the Galleon in Key West (waited over a year on an RCI search) and a 1br at Villa La'berge in Del Mar (overlooking ocean, just north of San Diego). I think RCI trade are work since you don't have an account - but if you put in a search you have a good chance of getting what you want if inventory is release. This requires planning way ahead.

The frustration with HGVC is that the really only build in Vegas, Orlando and Hawaii. RCI is a pain but workable. HGVC seems to be building a relations with GPR (Grand Pacific Resorts) in Cali so the southern Cali coast is becoming available. I find it HARD to get into affiliates but to me I have found that with work I am getting some great vacations with a small investment. 

As everyone will tell you - BUY RESALE !


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## nolesman98 (Jul 13, 2008)

If I owned HGVC in Orlando, and if I have enough points, would I be able to get a trade to Vegas or Hawaii without too much difficulty?


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## Talent312 (Jul 13, 2008)

nolesman98 said:


> If I owned HGVC in Orlando, and if I have enough points, would I be able to get a trade to Vegas or Hawaii without too much difficulty?



Its relatively easy to use your points to stay at resorts other than their home-resort.  Its not a "trade," as such, its a "club reservation." In making "club reservations" you have the same standing as every other HGVC member, so it really depends on the competition from other HGVC members for the week/unit you are looking for.  

The reservation window opens 270 days prior to your proposed check-out date, but sometimes, addiitional inventory becomes available during the 270-day window, so it pays to look early, keep looking, and be flexible with your vacation dates.  Even at the 270-day point, some resorts will be restricted by home-reservations, the window for which is 12 months.

Many properties are available online, which makes this easy.  Some affiliated properties require you to call in for reservations.


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## nolesman98 (Jul 13, 2008)

Then is it safe to assume that Hawaii probably has more competition than Vegas or Orlando.  And Vegas probably has more competition than Orlando


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## nolesman98 (Jul 13, 2008)

Or would it be true to say that someone who "buys HGVC Hawaii" would have the same competition to get a vacation in Hawaii as someone who bought Vegas or Orlando?


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## Talent312 (Jul 13, 2008)

nolesman98 said:


> Then is it safe to assume that Hawaii probably has more competition than Vegas or Orlando.  And Vegas probably has more competition than Orlando.
> 
> Or would it be true to say that someone who "buys HGVC Hawaii" would have the same competition to get a vacation in Hawaii as someone who bought Vegas or Orlando?



Since HGVC has several properties in all three locations, its not too difficult to find space in any one of them, as long as you're somewhat flexible.

However, Hawaii tends to draw a greater number of reservations in the exclusive "home" reservation window (9-12 months out) -- those who buy there like to stay there -- so that by the time the 270-day "club" window opens, availability is fairly restricted.  There is a whole 'nother thread about problems getting into Hawaiian Village.  The affiliated Bay Club on the Big Island is usually open.


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## GTLINZ (Jul 13, 2008)

nolesman98 said:


> Or would it be true to say that someone who "buys HGVC Hawaii" would have the same competition to get a vacation in Hawaii as someone who bought Vegas or Orlando?



Not at all - you can make your reservation in the 12-9 month window before anyone else at your home resort. And you own a set number of points - so if you are "platinum" season you can make a platinum reservation in the 12-9 month period at your home resort. This is the main driver to buy where you want it if is during a place and time of high demand. The thing to remember - it is not just Hawaii in your example- it is where you buy. The home reservation window (12-9 months) is a reservation at your unit size at your home resort (i.e the Kalia tower) for 7 days during your season. Follow the definition exactly because it looks like a traditional timeshare except you own a season as opposed to an exact week, which means you have some flexibility of which week as long as the season matches and you hit 12-9 months....


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## UWSurfer (Jul 14, 2008)

A couple of thoughts...

Would owning an HGVC Hawaii have the same competition for booking as an owner of HGVC Vegas or Orlando...?   It depends.

As has been talked about, you can book your week in your home resort in a covetted period before non-owners, from 12 months down to 9 months out.   This is your priority booking window.   HOWEVER, with HGVC to book your home resort using your week there in this period you must book a week and you must book it in the season you own & the exact size unit you own.   So for example, I have a 2 bdrm week at the Flamingo HGVC.   I can book it 12 months out from my desired check-out date BUT I MUST book it as a 2 bdrm.  If I only need a one bedroom, or a studio...I must wait until we get past this priority window.  One done, I can book any size, anyplace so long as there is availability and I have the points to do so. 

Now it gets interesting because one you are in this time frame, you don't have to book more than 3 days at a time and you can borrow from next years points if you don't have enough this year.   HGVC also instituted something called a changeable reservation without penalty or change fees.  It used to be if you wanted a week, you'd have to wait until your check-OUT date and then book it.  Now with the changeable feature you can book the forth day from check-in (aka 3 night stay) and keep changing your reservation, one day at a time as the rolling 9 months interval keep revealing days to you to book.  Thus if you are looking for a difficult unit size to get or at a high demand time, you can use this method to better insure you get the week you want in tact.    In fact I'm in the midst of doing this now for spring break next year.   The only limit is you must do this on-line for the one time $49 booking fee.   So long as you continue to make the changes on-line, there are no more fee's. 

One other note, HGVC Flamingo was built by HGVC and has the same value and power as the other HGVC locations...and one of the best ts locations on the strip.   The only thing Flamingo lacks is an ROFR.


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## benjaminb13 (Jul 14, 2008)

nolesman98 said:


> Or would it be true to say that someone who "buys HGVC Hawaii" would have the same competition to get a vacation in Hawaii as someone who bought Vegas or Orlando?




Its not the same,
just got back from Hawaii.  For the July fourth weekend, the couple we travelled with , who owns HGVC in vegas were unfortunately only able  to book 3 days out of 14 in HGVC waikoloa.  They had to settle for 11 days at the Bay Club, an affiliate, which is nice but nt as luxurious as the HGVC built units.
In their case they were unable to get Hawaii - i they started looking during the 9 month window.
May be harder to book in HHV.
Of course we have children and can only travel during prime periods.  
If you have flexibility it should be easy.
Some good news though,
I hear with the opening of Kings land there may be more availablity.


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## peg leg pete (Jul 17, 2008)

*Points is Points*

The more I read, the more it seems home resorts are relatively unimportant.  If you accept that premise(and I am not saying that you should), what resorts generally give you the most bang for your buck?  Lowest HGVC resale cost per point?


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## PigsDad (Jul 17, 2008)

peg leg pete said:


> The more I read, the more it seems home resorts are relatively unimportant.  If you accept that premise(and I am not saying that you should), what resorts generally give you the most bang for your buck?  Lowest HGVC resale cost per point?


Vegas currently has the lowest maintenance fees, followed by Orlando.  I believe the Flamingo location in Vegas is the only non-affiliate HGVC property that does not have ROFR, and there have recently been some great deals on ebay for those units.

So I think Vegas Flamingo will give you the best bang for your buck currently.

Note:  Flamingo currently has a small special assessment for the next year or two, but after that the MFs should drop again. 

Kurt


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## Zac495 (Jul 20, 2008)

nolesman98 said:


> A little advise please.
> 
> 
> I Live two hours from Orlando.  My wife and I love Orlando, but we also love to travel to other places.  In your opinions, if I were to get a good buy on HGVC week at International Drive or at Sea World,  would I have the same trading power as other HGVC owners with the same point level?  Would I have same or lower trading power with RCI?  Or should I look to buy elsewhere?



I'll repeat what someone else said on this thread - if you want to go to Hawaii on a particular week in the summer, buy Hawaii. You can book 12 months out. You will likely get what you want. If you're flexible, I'd buy something with lowe maintenance fees. Call Seth Nock. He's a fabulous broker (I totally trust him - bought 2 timeshares from him - and he's well known on TUG).

Good luck.


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## luv2vacation (Jul 20, 2008)

I've also bought 2 TS's from Seth.  He's very knowledgeable and wonderful to work with.


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## benjaminb13 (Jul 20, 2008)

3 from seth- do I hear 4?


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## CatLovers (Jul 21, 2008)

*We ignored the BUY WHERE YOU WANT TO GO rule!*

At one point in time we owned 5 traders that we had never EVER been to ... bought them purely to trade and we have done REALLY well! 

For more info, see my post #14 in this thread:
http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?p=561958#post561958


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## Troopers (Jul 21, 2008)

CatLovers said:


> At one point in time we owned 5 traders that we had never EVER been to ... bought them purely to trade and we have done REALLY well!
> 
> For more info, see my post #14 in this thread:
> http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?p=561958#post561958



Thanks Catlovers.

I started both threads, this one in the Hilton forum as well as the one on the Starwood forum.  I've been looking into buying a Hilton TS and found that most here suggest buy where it's cheap (i.e. LV) and not where they want to go.  I don't think that's generally true with Starwood owners.  I'm not sure why because both system are very similar.


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## Bill4728 (Jul 21, 2008)

R Chen said:


> Thanks Catlovers.
> 
> I started both threads, this one in the Hilton forum as well as the one on the Starwood forum.  I've been looking into buying a Hilton TS and found that most here suggest buy where it's cheap (i.e. LV) and not where they want to go.  I don't think that's generally true with Starwood owners.  I'm not sure why because both system are very similar.




It true for HGVC and not for Starwood because, most of the time, HGVC owners have little problem reserving a week at almost all the different HGVC resorts ( except for the affiliate resort locations) where Starwood owners report that they have a difficult time using their points (staroptions) at the high demand starwood resorts.


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