# Rescinding today, have questions



## MindReign (Mar 29, 2016)

Just found this forum today, after buying a timeshare on Saturday. 

I needed some clarification on a couple things.

1.) They told me the points were consistent from location to location, i.e., studio = 220 points M-Thurs and 440 points F-Sun off season. Is that correct? Does a studio in Florida cost the same amount of points as a studio in Hawaii or Colorado?

2.) If i choose to stay at a hotel instead of a club resort, how many points does that typically cost? For instance, a hotel in Miami florida may be 30,000-50,000 HH points per night. How many points would that translate to for HGVC points? Can I book using HGVC points or do I have to convert to HH and wait a year?

I think I'm going to rescind and go with a resale. I purchased 4800pts EOY with 7000 bonus @ 19k.


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## MindReign (Mar 29, 2016)

*Answer*

I think I found my answer for #2, in that it's 20 to 1 conversion during the same year, or 25 to 1 if i schedule them for conversion Jan of next year. 

Maybe someone can confirm. 

i.e., 175k HH points for a week of Cat 6 would be 7000 points in advance or 8750 spur of the moment...

Still unclear on Question #1


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## falmouth3 (Mar 29, 2016)

Sorry, I can't answer your questions, but it might help if you say what/where you bought.  There are different programs and rules vary with the program.  For instance, rules at Hilton are not the same as Marriott or Starwood.

Rescind right now and learn more at your leisure.  You have a limited time to rescind and all the time in the world to make a wise and knowledgeable purchase.


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## DeniseM (Mar 29, 2016)

Since this thread is in the Hilton Forum - I'd guess he bought Hilton.


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## MindReign (Mar 29, 2016)

falmouth3 said:


> Sorry, I can't answer your questions, but it might help if you say what/where you bought.  There are different programs and rules vary with the program.  For instance, rules at Hilton are not the same as Marriott or Starwood.
> 
> Rescind right now and learn more at your leisure.  You have a limited time to rescind and all the time in the world to make a wise and knowledgeable purchase.




Sorry, I thought I posted in the HGVC thread. 

I purchased a Hilton GVC TS @ Elara in Vegas. Stats in my original post.


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## capjak (Mar 29, 2016)

MindReign said:


> Sorry, I thought I posted in the HGVC thread.
> 
> I purchased a Hilton GVC TS @ Elara in Vegas. Stats in my original post.



Absolutely/Positively Rescind today, not tomorrow, not the next day, today!

You will have tons of time to discuss the ins/outs of HGVC after you get the rescind letter etc... in the certified mail.


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## vacationhopeful (Mar 29, 2016)

There are MANY different timeshare "clubs" or BRAND name resorts ... Hilton is just one. I own at Wyndham Vacation resorts, at Shell Vacation Club and at a Vacation Resorts International resort. 

I have stayed at Marriotts Vacation Club via an II exchange (paying a membership fee to II and an exchange fee to II for the swapping of my resort week for the Marriott week).

At Wyndham, I own in their points system and also own deeded fixed weeks at some of their resorts. 

At the VRI resort, I own again fixed deeded weeks and have several of them converted into a RCI Points program.

All of the above makes sense to many TUGGER members here ... to you, new to timesharing ... I make NO SENSE at all. 

My point is, if you are spending your hard earn money to better enjoy your limited vacation time, learn first and REALLY get a decent bang for your money and vacation days. Timesharing might NOT be a good match for you!

So, Welcome to TUG! Continue reading and asking questions. Learn and rent at a couple of resorts ... and no matter how CHEAP or FREE a timeshare week or set of points is... or how pretty of a resort ... it is a BUSINESS decision and MFs are forever (or until you can give it away or sell it to someone else). 

I use my winter timeshare weeks as a Winter Vacation home in South Florida ...plus my annual MLB Spring Training Trip to AZ which I invite all my siblings & spouses to attend (I supply the 'roof' & they treat me to everything else).

Last week, I invited my siblings to join me in San Diego for 3 nights after a niece's wedding at a inland winery. My MLB Spring Training trip morf'ed into a wedding this year. Cancelled the Spring Training units in PHX and booked San Diego units ... Shell Vacation Club points.

PS I did a timeshare presentation in Cancun in 1986. Thought it was great and came close to buying. Glad I didn't .... as I have never been back to Mexico and have no interest now in visiting there.


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## DeniseM (Mar 29, 2016)

Linda - Auto correct is not your friend these days!  :hysterical:



> My MLB Spring Training trip *mortified* into a wedding this year.


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## colatown (Mar 29, 2016)

DeniseM said:


> Auto correct is not your friend:  :hysterical:



Maybe that is what he meant.


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## vacationhopeful (Mar 29, 2016)

DeniseM said:


> Linda - Auto correct is not your friend these days!  :hysterical:





colatown said:


> Maybe that is what* he* meant.



DeniseM: I corrected my spelling faux pas.

colatown: I too suffer sometimes from a version of "fast fingers" typing disease.


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## DeniseM (Mar 29, 2016)

The one from last week still makes me laugh - that was the best!


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## Talent312 (Mar 29, 2016)

MindReign said:


> I think I found my answer for #2, in that it's 20 to 1 conversion during the same year, or 25 to 1 if i schedule them for conversion Jan of next year.... Maybe someone can confirm.



You are correct, sir. However, using HGVC points to book a hotel or convert to HH-points is, in fact, a notoriously poor use of points. For the points it would take to book 1N in a Hampton Inn on the poor-side of town, you could score a 3N-weekend in a studio at a HGVC resort. 

That said, there are occasions when one may need a few more HH-points to complete a "free" multi-day hotel stay (like 7N in DC), and for that, converting a few points can be useful.
.


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## Jason245 (Mar 29, 2016)

MindReign said:


> Just found this forum today, after buying a timeshare on Saturday.
> 
> I needed some clarification on a couple things.
> 
> ...



Congrats, you just saved yourself 19k.


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## SmithOp (Mar 29, 2016)

Regarding question 1 - no, the point requirements are not consistent!  The new Hawaii resorts have much higher point requirements - Kingsland, Grand Waikikian, Grand Islander (under construction) and Maui ( waiting for construction to start).  Most of the rest are fairly consistent for a week stay, 4800 for 1 br platinum and 7000 for 2 br platinum.


Sent from my iPad Mini 4 using Tapatalk


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## brp (Mar 29, 2016)

MindReign said:


> 1.) They told me the points were consistent from location to location, i.e., studio = 220 points M-Thurs and 440 points F-Sun off season. Is that correct? Does a studio in Florida cost the same amount of points as a studio in Hawaii or Colorado?.



I don't believe that I saw this answered. In short, No, they are not all the same. With that said, there a number of locations that fit into that number scheme, but not all. For example, I believe that all the locations in Vegas are about those values, *except* for Trump. New York property scales (W. 57th) are quite a bit higher.

I don't have experience with a great many locations, but of the ones I've seen, the bulk are similar.

Also note that the rates are different per season, and the seasons vary by location and resort.

Best to take a look at HGVC point charts and that will give you a better feel for the variations.

Cheers.


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## MindReign (Mar 29, 2016)

*Thanks*

Thanks everyone, I appreciate the answers. 

I was originally sold on the ability to stay at any hilton in the world. Sounds like that's extremely unlikely since a fraction of them are actually HGV resorts and the rest will require a painful HGVC Points -> HHonors point conversion. 

My rescind letter is in the mail, now to decide if I even want to buy one of these on the resale market...

Quick follow up questions.

3.) If you buy an Every Other Year plan (Odd years) with let's say $1k yearly maintenance. ($850 MF + $150 Club Membership) and then you go buy ANOTHER Every Other Year plan (Even years) down the road, do you pay double the club membership as well, or just both maintenance fees + 1 club membership? (This seems fairly inefficient) 

4.) If you want to UPGRADE your timeshare, is that possible from a resale? (Guessing they give you next to nothing in equity towards the upgrade and you're back at square one?) (Also guessing you're better off to selling one and just buying a bigger one altogether)

5.) Is there absolutely any difference in the actual location you buy outside of Home week? i.e., If i have no intention of using home week, would it make the most sense for me to get a unit that comes with the lowest maintenance fee and just use my HVG points to go elsewhere?

Thanks again!


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## brp (Mar 29, 2016)

MindReign said:


> I was originally sold on the ability to stay at any hilton in the world. Sounds like that's extremely unlikely since a fraction of them are actually HGV resorts and the rest will require a painful HGVC Points -> HHonors point conversion.
> 
> My rescind letter is in the mail, now to decide if I even want to buy one of these on the resale market...



Rescind letter = excellent start 

As you note, this will *not* be all Hilton's, so you have to decide if the available HGVC locations are enough. They work well for us, and we're also with Hilton for things that are not Timeshare stays.

Quick follow up questions.



MindReign said:


> 3.) If you buy an Every Other Year plan (Odd years) with let's say $1k yearly maintenance. ($850 MF + $150 Club Membership) and then you go buy ANOTHER Every Other Year plan (Even years) down the road, do you pay double the club membership as well, or just both maintenance fees + 1 club membership? (This seems fairly inefficient)



We have three separate contracts across multiple locations and pay only 1 membership fee.



MindReign said:


> 5.) Is there absolutely any difference in the actual location you buy outside of Home week? i.e., If i have no intention of using home week, would it make the most sense for me to get a unit that comes with the lowest maintenance fee and just use my HVG points to go elsewhere?



That's certainly the way we use it. We have (cheaper) Vegas points that we use both in Vegas and Kona. We would also never use Home Week, so I don't know of a reason not to buy the best deal in that case.

Cheers.


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## MindReign (Mar 29, 2016)

brp said:


> That's certainly the way we use it. We have (cheaper) Vegas points that we use both in Vegas and Kona. We would also never use Home Week, so I don't know of a reason not to buy the best deal in that case.
> 
> Cheers.



Great, thank you!


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## jehb2 (Mar 29, 2016)

I see you purchased 4800 points. Depending on the Hilton Hotel you'll be lucky if your 7 night timeshare gets you 3 nights in a Hilton hotel.


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## PigsDad (Mar 29, 2016)

MindReign said:


> 3.) If you buy an Every Other Year plan (Odd years) with let's say $1k yearly maintenance. ($850 MF + $150 Club Membership) and then you go buy ANOTHER Every Other Year plan (Even years) down the road, do you pay double the club membership as well, or just both maintenance fees + 1 club membership? (This seems fairly inefficient)


As mentioned, you only pay a single annual Club Membership no matter how many weeks you own.  I wanted to add that even if you own an every-other-year (EOY) week, you will only pay the MF EOY, but you will pay the Club Membership fee _every _year.  That's because you have access to Club benefits every year, not just the even or odd year that you own.



> 4.) If you want to UPGRADE your timeshare, is that possible from a resale? (Guessing they give you next to nothing in equity towards the upgrade and you're back at square one?) (Also guessing you're better off to selling one and just buying a bigger one altogether)



There have been some cases reported where someone was offered full retail price for a trade-in, but even so, why would you want to?  Even when you are trading in, you are still paying retail for those extra points.  Why not just buy some extra points on the resale market if you get to that point?  It would be much cheaper.  That is what most people (including me) have done.

Kurt


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## MindReign (Mar 29, 2016)

PigsDad said:


> There have been some cases reported where someone was offered full retail price for a trade-in, but even so, why would you want to?  Even when you are trading in, you are still paying retail for those extra points.  Why not just buy some extra points on the resale market if you get to that point?  It would be much cheaper.  That is what most people (including me) have done.
> 
> Kurt



Well, the only thing I was thinking, was that maintenance fees don't seem to climb linearly, Meaning...4800 points may cost $850 MF, but 9600 points don't cost $1700. So, instead of buying two separate bundles, it makes more sense to buy one bigger one. I'm just not sure where the sweetspot is... I'm leaning towards one Every Other Year bundle with around 10k Points.


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## TUGBrian (Mar 29, 2016)

grats on finding the forum in time to save a fortune...and youll get so much more for your money after doing resale research!


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## phil1ben (Mar 30, 2016)

In my opinion the sweet spot is a resale purchase for 7000 annual points which is normally a two-bedroom unit. Keep in mind that the annual maintenance fees vary widely from resort to resort. There is a thread here that identifies the annual maintenance fees for a number of the HGVC resorts. The preference for Home Week was important to me for South Beach so I bought resale there. We go there most of the time but have also gone to the resort in Italy and 57th Street NY. However the annual maintenance fees (all in including club dues which are payable everywhere) is about $1,600.00 at South Beach. You will find other HGVC resorts at $1,100-$1,400 for the same amount of points if Home Week is not important to you.


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## taterhed (Mar 30, 2016)

MindReign said:


> Well, the only thing I was thinking, was that maintenance fees don't seem to climb linearly, Meaning...4800 points may cost $850 MF, but 9600 points don't cost $1700. So, instead of buying two separate bundles, it makes more sense to buy one bigger one. I'm just not sure where the sweetspot is... I'm leaning towards one Every Other Year bundle with around 10k Points.



You're very close here....

There are several good threads on the best HGVC points for a given use...
Keep in mind, there are really 4 considerations to HGVC points (IMHO simplified):


Home resort (maybe not a factor for you...)
Initial purchase cost per point (size/# unit nights needed and all closing costs)
Ongoing MF's and club dues (annually)
Planned time of ownership (????)
For short-term ownership (which would include selling/trading/adding points) clearly initial purchase cost is going to be a big factor. For longer term ownership (YMMV) the cost of higher MF's is going to become a factor and thus, more expensive (initial purchase) points contracts may be more lucrative in the long run. In addition, some higher-MF properties may be harder to sell. Also, I think the ongoing status of affiliate properties (which can be efficient points) may be in question right now.

You might consider answering the questions in the post link below:

http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=208742 
When you click on the link above this line, it will take you to a thread on this forum (TUG). Read the first post. It is a series of questions that you can answer to help the members of this board give you some (educated) advice. It's easy: just click the link above and hit the "quote" button at the bottom of the first post. Then, a box will pop-up will the questions in it. Just answer each question as honestly as possible. when you're done, just click the "submit reply " button under the box. Your post will then be moved to a 'new thread' where people can help you find what is right for you.

A few things to expect/consider when you complete the questionnaire:

Answering the $$$ questions honestly is important--People buy for $1 and $35k--overspending won't necessarily improve your vacation experience
You will get a lot of replies. People like to help. Don't be overwhelmed.
Depending on your answers, you may get some very strong/biased advice.
It is not unusual for people to have 'back and forth' discussions about your answers--you won't necessarily understand it all. That's normal.
There are several 'stickys' or 'faqs' that contain basic TS advice in the "New to Timesharing? Look Here!" section. suggest you read these first.
You don't need to be an expert in timeshares to own or enjoy them...
No rush. Take your time. Don't Ebay something and regret it later.
If you're interested in HGVC, then say so, and why. Timeshares typically make lousy hotel-points conversions. I wouldn't buy for that. Of course, Open Season isn't a bad option, but the rates keep rising.

that's it for my advice...oh, one more thing:
If you're concerned about a vacation next year or 2 years away, many here can steer you to a great rental that might cost no more than it would if you owned the timeshare--without the purchase price.


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## 1Kflyerguy (Mar 30, 2016)

MindReign said:


> Well, the only thing I was thinking, was that maintenance fees don't seem to climb linearly, Meaning...4800 points may cost $850 MF, but 9600 points don't cost $1700. So, instead of buying two separate bundles, it makes more sense to buy one bigger one. I'm just not sure where the sweetspot is... I'm leaning towards one Every Other Year bundle with around 10k Points.



You are asking a lot of good questions and getting lots of good advice.

In general I agree with the idea of trading your ownership up to larger point contracts over time, but in reality its harder to pull off effectively.  There are times when trading up directly with HGVC may make sense, but those are pretty limited and i would not work that as a goal.  Otherwise you are left with buying a larger contract, and selling the older one.  Its possible, but it may incur costs.

The every other year contracts can be attractive price wise, but do have some limitations.  Its hard to use the deposit / borrow feature as a way to take a bigger vacation occasionally.

If you had a 5000 point annual contract, its possible to deposit points into the following year, then borrow from the year after for a total of 15,000 points in a single year.  

Not sure if that is  an issue for you, but i often move my points around, even if its a smaller leftover balance.  

Just something else to consider.


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## colatown (Mar 30, 2016)

vacationhopeful said:


> DeniseM: I corrected my spelling faux pas.
> 
> colatown: I too suffer sometimes from a version of "fast fingers" typing disease.



I'm too old for fast fingers and obviously a fast brain also.


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## MindReign (Mar 30, 2016)

*Thanks*

Definitely a lot of good points.

After reading them all and digging around on the forum, I think I found what I'm looking for. A 7000 PointsPerYear program in a Low maintenance area (like Vegas). That will give me the low up front cost 7-10k, low maintenance $850+$150 and a great distribution of points that I can push and pull to suit our needs. 

I've had my heart set on HGVC for a while, but just bought without knowing about the nice Resale network. 

I wouldn't mind a 9600 point package, but it seems those are hard to find under 15k and under $1500+$150 in maintenance. (due to FROR)

I'll keep reading/digging! Thanks!


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## brp (Mar 30, 2016)

MindReign said:


> Well, the only thing I was thinking, was that maintenance fees don't seem to climb linearly, Meaning...4800 points may cost $850 MF, but 9600 points don't cost $1700. So, instead of buying two separate bundles, it makes more sense to buy one bigger one. I'm just not sure where the sweetspot is... I'm leaning towards one Every Other Year bundle with around 10k Points.



To be clear, the MFs are based on the unit size and the resort...NOT the number of points, specifically. So, for example, a "Gold" week may be 5000 points and a "Platinum" 7000 for a 2BR. At the same resort these will command the same MFs because they are both a 2BR. Lately, what I have seen is that, realizing the economies here, the cost/point is higher for the 7000 point contracts than the 5000 because of the MF savings in the long run.

For example, from one of the resale brokers who periodically posts here, I was quoted $3000 for a 5000 point contract, and $7000 for 7000 points. While all deals are negotiable, that gives some idea of the perception of relative value.

But, as mentioned, a long-term purchase intent means that the MFs offset the initial purchase difference.

Cheers.


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## MindReign (Mar 30, 2016)

*Answers*

As requested, some answers:

1) Where do you want your home resort to be? Doesn't matter

2) Do you want to visit your home resort at least half the time, or do you want to trade more than half the time? Trade Every Time

3) What are your 5 top trade destinations? CA, Utah, Colorado, New York, Florida

4) How many people do you usually travel with? One

5) Can you travel any time, or are you locked into the school schedule? Any Time

6) Can you make firm plans 12 or more mos. in advance? Yes

7) Can you vacation for a full week at a time? Yes

8) What level of accommodations do you prefer on a scale of 1 to 5 stars? 3+

9) How much can you afford to spend upfront, without financing? 10-15k

10) How much can you afford to spend every year for a maintenance fee that will come due right after Christmas, and increase each year? 1000-1500

11) Are you a detail oriented planner? No

12) Do you understand that once you buy a timeshare, it may be very difficult to sell or give away, and you are responsible for all fees, until you do? Yes


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## brp (Mar 30, 2016)

MindReign said:


> After reading them all and digging around on the forum, I think I found what I'm looking for. A 7000 PointsPerYear program in a Low maintenance area (like Vegas). That will give me the low up front cost 7-10k, low maintenance $850+$150 and a great distribution of points that I can push and pull to suit our needs.
> I wouldn't mind a 9600 point package, but it seems those are hard to find under 15k and under $1500+$150 in maintenance. (due to FROR)



One thing worth noting about Vegas properties is that the HGVC @ the Flamingo does not have ROFR. So any deal you can make will get past Hilton.

Cheers.


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## MindReign (Apr 1, 2016)

brp said:


> One thing worth noting about Vegas properties is that the HGVC @ the Flamingo does not have ROFR. So any deal you can make will get past Hilton.
> 
> Cheers.



I thought the same thing, based on what I read, but I've heard from a couple brokers so far that it's not always the case. 

Maybe Hilton has modified the ROFR stance on Flamingo properties they recently re-purchased? Or included it on new contracts for the location?


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## Talent312 (Apr 1, 2016)

Once a TS is sold w/o a ROFR, any subsequent owner can resell it w/o a ROFR...
If HGVC were to reacquire (take-back) the unit, they might be able to attach a ROFR to the unit, but AFAIK, no one has ever encountered that. Rather, the brokers are more likely referring to a pro-forma waiver of ROFR which HGVC does routinely to avoid any issue.
.


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## taterhed (Apr 1, 2016)

MindReign said:


> I thought the same thing, based on what I read, but I've heard from a couple brokers so far that it's not always the case.
> 
> Maybe Hilton has modified the ROFR stance on Flamingo properties they recently re-purchased? Or included it on new contracts for the location?



I'd suggest starting a new post in the HGVC (here) if you're fairly sure on the details.  A post with 'most efficient HGVC contract for xxxx points' or similar. 

 Also, consider contacting SethNoc or Samuel R at sellingtimeshares.net  I bought 2 units (not HGVC) from them and they are great to work with.  Seth is a respected tugger and has made several comments on HGVC with recent market experience.  (if you haven't done this already....)

 Also, it may be more cost efficient re ROFR etc.. to buy during the second half of the year, in order to get the best price/ROFR shot.

 Hope this helps...I'm out.  cheers.


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## brp (Apr 1, 2016)

Talent312 said:


> Once a TS is sold w/o a ROFR, any subsequent owner can resell it w/o a ROFR...
> If HGVC were to reacquire (take-back) the unit, they might be able to attach a ROFR to the unit, but AFAIK, no one has ever encountered that. Rather, the brokers are more likely referring to a pro-forma waiver of ROFR issues routinely to avoid any issue.
> .



That is what happened with us. It still had to be submitted, we still had to wait, but my understanding is that they could not have exercised ROFR.

Cheers.


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