# Wow! Marriott buys into Atlantis Resort! [split from other thread]



## PamMo (Jul 2, 2014)

The Marriott TUG board is BUZZING with excitement! There's a lot of hope and speculation on a conversion of hotel units into a Marriott Atlantis timeshare - or the ability to use DC points to book a room at the resort. Very interesting development. I think it's good to see new money go into Atlantis. http://tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=213456


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## Ken555 (Jul 2, 2014)

Yup, it will be interesting exactly how this works out. But any investment or support of Atlantis is good for us, too.


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## ronparise (Jul 2, 2014)

How is this different than any other Marriott hotel? and what does it do for Marriott timeshare owners


Marriott spun off most of their reaestate years ago...They dont own much, They manage or or allow others to fly their flag and manage to Marriott standards (franchise).


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## PamMo (Jul 2, 2014)

Marriott owners in the Destinations Club are hoping to be able to use points to stay at Atlantis. There is little doubt it will cost a LOT of points, though.

I think it's great to see Marriott make an investment in Atlantis. It's a fantastic resort, but has some serious financial issues to deal with. Plus competition from the new Baha Mar development opening this December http://www.bahamar.com/welcome-to-the-new-riviera/


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## komosatp (Jul 3, 2014)

From  this week's Wall Street Journal:


> The owner of the giant Bahamas resort complex known as Atlantis has completed a $1.9 billion recapitalization of the hotel and gambling destination and will replace the hotel manager shortly before a rival resort is poised to open nearby.
> 
> A Brookfield Asset Management property fund has reached an agreement for a $1.75 billion credit facility with a lending group to replace existing debt. The fund also will invest $195 million of equity in Atlantis, a 171-acre resort with 3,414 hotel rooms, a casino and water-park attractions that South African hotelier Sol Kerzner developed.
> 
> ...


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## komosatp (Jul 3, 2014)

Just posted about this on this thread, but will chime in here.

Its not precisely right to say that Marriott 'bought-in'.  More precisely, they are 'affiliating' with Atlantis and are loaning $100 million to Brookfield to pay off the old (in default) mortgages on Atlantis. It doesn't sound like Marriott will be managing Atlantis (for now, at least).

Conversions of any units from hotel rooms to timeshares is highly unlikely. That would be making a material change to the collateral behind the loans.  You can't do that (unless its already structured that way in the deal).

Does anybody know if there are other places where Marriott and Starwood work together on a joint venture?

And the really big news I see in this is that Kerzner will no longer be any part of Atlantis. The top on-site manager from  Kerzner is staying on, at last for now, but Sol Kerzner won't have any part of Atlantis as of September 9.

From  The Nassau Guardian:





> The remarks came during a press conference held in the Office of the Prime Minister yesterday, in which BAM announced that Atlantis had arranged and closed on a $1.75 billion, seven-year, fixed rate credit facility on top of a $195 million equity investment in the resort.
> 
> In addition, BAM unveiled a new wholly-owned subsidiary, Brookfield Hospitality LLC, which will assume the management of Atlantis once its management contract with Kerzner International expires on September 9 of this year.
> 
> ...



Here's a WSJ article on this:


> The owner of the giant Bahamas resort complex known as Atlantis has completed a $1.9 billion recapitalization of the hotel and gambling destination and will replace the hotel manager shortly before a rival resort is poised to open nearby.
> 
> A Brookfield Asset Management property fund has reached an agreement for a $1.75 billion credit facility with a lending group to replace existing debt. The fund also will invest $195 million of equity in Atlantis, a 171-acre resort with 3,414 hotel rooms, a casino and water-park attractions that South African hotelier Sol Kerzner developed.
> 
> ...


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## komosatp (Jul 3, 2014)

Two more good articles about what's going on at Atlantis.

Atlantis Owner Eyes 'Significant' 5-Year Investment Programme

Atlantis 'Savours' $1.9bn Refinance


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## pedro47 (Jul 3, 2014)

This could be great if Marriott's & II timeshare owners can exchange into this resort. Right now the Atlantic only exchange/trade using RCI.


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## tomandrobin (Jul 3, 2014)

pedro47 said:


> This could be great if Marriott's & II timeshare owners can exchange into this resort. Right now the Atlantic only exchange/trade using RCI.




Its not being turned into timeshares.


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## pedro47 (Jul 3, 2014)

tomandrobin said:


> Its not being turned into timeshares.



Thanks you, sounds like a hotel sweet heart deal for Marriott.


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## SueDonJ (Jul 3, 2014)

tomandrobin said:


> Its not being turned into timeshares.



No*, but if it follows the model of other Marriott-affiliated Autograph Collection hotels, Marriott Destination Club Members will be able to use their Points to book it through the DC Explorer Collection.  Like Pam said, it's not at all the most economical use of Points but it's an option that many of us are looking forward to using given that the only other options involve a boatload of cash.

As well, Marriott reps on various official social sites are already saying that it will fully integrate into the Marriott Rewards Program which will allow booking with those Points, and MRP and Elite Nights will accrue for cash stays.  Granted, this benefit encompasses many, many more folks than just the timeshare owners, but most of us work that program to its full potential. 

*The DC system is designed so that hotel/resort units can be retrofitted as timeshare units and then integrated into the DC Exchange Company (which won't require that they be purchased and conveyed to the DC Trust.)  It hasn't happened yet and if/when it does it will be more problematic with Autograph Collection properties than more closely-held Marriott properties but I'll never say never, especially when you're dealing with properties that already have suites and multi-bedroom units.


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## Docklander (Jul 3, 2014)

Questions for the Harborside/Starwood experts:

Would I be right in thinking that Harborside has the loosest connection (or at least one of the loosest connections) to the Starwood network out of all the SVO properties?

If so, what are the chances that Harborside follows Atlantis and moves over to Marriott/MVCI sometime in the future? Are the mechanics for that sort of a transfer even possible?


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## DeniseM (Jul 3, 2014)

I'm not sure where you got that idea.  HRA is the highest demand resort in the SVN, and Starwood makes a fortune when they resell inventory that they re-acquire through various methods.  They also are making a fortune on the very high maintenance fees - they would be crazy to let it go.

Starwood resorts are owned by owners, not by the management companies.  Only the BOD can decide to fire Starwood and hire new management.  Although, I guess Starwood could decide not to renew their management contract on their end.  Harborside has a BOD, in theory it is comprised of an independent group of owners - but in reality, they rubber stamp Starwood's decisions.  I don't seem them firing Starwood, and hiring someone else.

So unless Starwood gets out of the timeshare management business, I can't think of any scenario where this might happen.


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## Docklander (Jul 3, 2014)

DeniseM said:


> I'm not sure where you got that idea.  HRA is the highest demand resort in the SVN, and Starwood makes a fortune when they resell inventory that they re-acquire through various methods.  They also are making a fortune on the very high maintenance fees - they would be crazy to let it go.
> 
> Starwood resorts are owned by owners, not by the management companies.  Only the BOD can decide to fire Starwood and hire new management.  Although, I guess Starwood could decide not to renew their management contract on their end.  Harborside has a BOD, in theory it is comprised of an independent group of owners - but in reality, they rubber stamp Starwood's decisions.  I don't seem them firing Starwood, and hiring someone else.
> 
> So unless Starwood gets out of the timeshare management business, I can't think of any scenario where this might happen.



I wasn't suggesting that Harborside was anything other than a super-prime resort in the SVO network. What I was asking was if Harborside was as closely affiliated to Starwood as a lot of the other SVO properties that are branded with 'typical' Starwood branding (Westin, Sheraton) and are recognisably 'Starwood' (which, IMO, Harborside isn't).

My other question may have been better phrased like this: If Marriott dangled investment in front of Harborside's BoD would they consider a move and would such a move be simple or complicated?

Based on what you say about Harborside's BoD I guess the answer to my second question would be "unlikely".


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## DeniseM (Jul 3, 2014)

> My other question may have been better phrased like this: If Marriott dangled investment in front of Harborside's BoD would they consider a move and would such a move be simple or complicated?



What "investment" would this be?


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## Docklander (Jul 3, 2014)

DeniseM said:


> What "investment" would this be?



I'm talking hypothetically...but let's say a loan (at very favourable rate) to do whatever improvements the BoA wanted to do to the resort. 

Or, it wouldn't even have to be a financial carrot.....I'm sure there are other things out there that Marriott could bring to the table that may be appealing. 

Anyway, your comment re the nature of the BoA already answered the question of the likelihood of anything happening from the Resort's point of view. If they're just rubber stamping whatever Starwood say then that's that.


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## DeniseM (Jul 3, 2014)

I certainly HOPE the BOD wouldn't accept a loan, because it's the owners who would have to pay it back!


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## Docklander (Jul 3, 2014)

DeniseM said:


> I certainly HOPE the BOD wouldn't accept a loan, because it's the owners who would have to pay it back!



Agreed (we own at HRA btw ). I can see circumstances where a short term loan at a favourable rate would be a good thing but we're talking very specific and special circumstances and ones I don't see at Harborside right now.


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## okwiater (Jul 4, 2014)

In the realm of the hypothetical, let's say that Marriott (through their new hotel-side affiliation) was able to work out an HRA Phase 3, something Starwood hasn't been able to do. Marriott could afford to offer a pretty substantial "buyout" in such a scenario.


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## DeniseM (Jul 4, 2014)

okwiater said:


> In the realm of the hypothetical, let's say that Marriott (through their new hotel-side affiliation) was able to work out an HRA Phase 3, something Starwood hasn't been able to do. Marriott could afford to *offer a pretty substantial "buyout" *in such a scenario.



What would Marriott be "buying?"

Why would the owners in Phase 1 & 2, want to lose their Staroptions and Starpoints, and possibly lose their Elite Status with Starwood, by going over to Marriott?


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## SMHarman (Jul 4, 2014)

okwiater said:


> In the realm of the hypothetical, let's say that Marriott (through their new hotel-side affiliation) was able to work out an HRA Phase 3, something Starwood hasn't been able to do. Marriott could afford to offer a pretty substantial "buyout" in such a scenario.



With the occupancy levels of the hotels if I were Atlantis I too would be loath to approve HRAIII. 

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## okwiater (Jul 5, 2014)

DeniseM said:


> What would Marriott be "buying?"
> 
> Why would the owners in Phase 1 & 2, want to lose their Staroptions and Starpoints, and possibly lose their Elite Status with Starwood, by going over to Marriott?



It's all hypothetical, but Marriott could present an offer to the Board that included a substantial cash contribution to remodel and improve the property, as well as expand with an HRA Phase III. It could also include a cash buyout of the remainder of Starwood's management contract. If Starwood decided they wanted out of HRA, they could certainly say it's in the interest of the owners to vote for such a deal, as it brings additional investment, improvements, and expansion to the property. Nevermind whether or not owners actually want it.

But, like I said, this is hypothetical. I don't see it actually happening, but without real owner representation on the Board I would think there are numerous ways of structuring such a deal.


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## JudyS (Jul 6, 2014)

pedro47 said:


> This could be great if Marriott's & II timeshare owners can exchange into this resort. Right now the Atlantic only exchange/trade using RCI.


I'm confused about this post. Do you mean the Atlanti*s* only trades through RCI? I thought the Atlantis only trades through II.


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## SMHarman (Jul 6, 2014)

JudyS said:


> I'm confused about this post. Do you mean the Atlanti*s* only trades through RCI? I thought the Atlantis only trades through II.



Sheraton / Westin owned Harborside Resort at Atlantis is an II trade. 

That's the only TS with Atlantis benefits. Others are on paradise island and trade in RCI but are on the outside looking in. 

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## komosatp (Jul 7, 2014)

SMHarman said:


> With the occupancy levels of the hotels if I were Atlantis I too would be loath to approve HRAIII.


Can you elaborate upon Atlantis' occupancy levels? I've see all discounts they put out on the hotel rooms, but I've never seen anything concrete that say that occupancy is suffering.  The  news bytes I've seen say this:





komosatp said:


> According to marketing materials for the loan proposal, the Atlantis withstood the downturn well, with revenues dropping less than 15% from the peak in 2008 to the market bottom in 2009. The occupancy rate has increased each year since 2009. The net operating income grew by 11% in the 12 months ending in May, but was still 23% below peak level.





PamMo said:


> Marriott owners in the Destinations Club are hoping to be able to use points to stay at Atlantis. There is little doubt it will cost a LOT of points, though.


Is Marriott's Destination Club like Starwood SPG system in every night has the same point value, regardless of the time of year?

I'm asking because I've always though that was a flaw in the SPG system.  It seems silly that a room during peak spring break week (at the Swan/Dolphin at Disney, for example) is 10,000 points a night when it is around $350 a night, but is also 10,000 a night in the fall doldrums when that same room could be $130 a night.

Atlantis is very much the same in that the same room room can range from $400 to $99, depending on the season.

Which is another way of saying, yes, it will be points rich for Marriott's DC if  they work this way, but could be much cheaper of the point cost floats with room pricing.


PamMo said:


> It's a fantastic resort, but has some serious financial issues to deal with.


With this restructuring and recapitalization, I think Atlantis has moved from 'having issues' to being pretty typical.

Yes, the competition with Bahamar could be an issue, but I think a revitalized Cable Beach will be good for Nassau and Atlantis in the long run.  The analogy I would use is Orlando when Universal built a competitor to Disney. The result has been annual record levels of visitors to Orlando (and record attendance at the individual parks), a much higher quality experience for visitors, and increased airlift into Orlando's airport. Getting more flights  into Nassau  could make visiting Atlantis much more economical.  Right now, I'd bet people have to spend around a third of their vacation budget just getting there.


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## SMHarman (Jul 7, 2014)

They posted it on the daily restaurant opening sheets. 

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## twinmommy19 (Jul 10, 2014)

If Marriott wants the Harborside TS, there could be ways to push Starwoods on the issue now that they have control over the resort itself.  For instance, is there a rock solid lifetime guarantee of usage of Atlantis facilities for all Harborside guests?  Take away that access, and the value of Harborside would really suffer.  Regardless of whether this is possible, I could see the Marriott sales reps putting this threat out there to try and convince owners to convert (telling them if they don't one day they will lose access to Atlantis property).  Needless to say - if I owned a Vistana or Scottsdale Staroptions week for the primary purpose of trading into HRA I'd probably be worried about this...

That said - Marriott may not even want to bother with Harborside.  The Reef is a beachfront, luxury version of Harborside.  If they want to add Atlantis to the MVC portfolio I'm sure they could add units there without even bothering with the legal issues.


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## komosatp (Jul 10, 2014)

bonk2boy said:


> For instance, is there a rock solid lifetime guarantee of usage of Atlantis facilities for all Harborside guests?


Yes, there is a permanent access deed. Atlantis would basically have to shut-down its grounds to everyone, including Atlantis hotel guests, to deny HRA owner/guest access to Atlantis amenities. 

_I have a dispute with Atlantis and the SVO HRA BOD about access to parts of Atlantis' grounds, which you can see here. So I'm quite familiar with the access deed._


bonk2boy said:


> The Reef is a beachfront, luxury version of Harborside.  If they want to add Atlantis to the MVC portfolio I'm sure they could add units there without even bothering with the legal issues.


Reef was sold as a hotel-condominium, not a timeshare. One unit has only one single owner. Most of the units there are owned by individuals, but there's a few left in Atlantis inventory that might, theoretically, be available for timeshare usage.  But these units have values in the 7-figure range....and there probably are not enough units to make a floating system work, so it would be fixed week/fixed unit. 

The bottom line is this was probably a value-add play for Marriott to add a signature property to use in its hotel loyalty system.  And to have an inside track if/when Brookfield decides to sell Atlantis.  Brookfield likes it because they have a seasoned hotel managment company ready to step-in should the newly formed Atlantis management company not measure up.


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## SueDonJ (Jul 10, 2014)

bonk2boy said:


> If Marriott wants the Harborside TS, there could be ways to push Starwoods on the issue now that they have control over the resort itself.  For instance, is there a rock solid lifetime guarantee of usage of Atlantis facilities for all Harborside guests?  Take away that access, and the value of Harborside would really suffer.  Regardless of whether this is possible, I could see the Marriott sales reps putting this threat out there to try and convince owners to convert (telling them if they don't one day they will lose access to Atlantis property).  Needless to say - if I owned a Vistana or Scottsdale Staroptions week for the primary purpose of trading into HRA I'd probably be worried about this...
> 
> That said - Marriott may not even want to bother with Harborside.  The Reef is a beachfront, luxury version of Harborside.  If they want to add Atlantis to the MVC portfolio I'm sure they could add units there without even bothering with the legal issues.





komosatp said:


> Yes, there is a permanent access deed. Atlantis would basically have to shut-down its grounds to everyone, including Atlantis hotel guests, to deny HRA owner/guest access to Atlantis amenities.
> 
> _I have a dispute with Atlantis and the SVO HRA BOD about access to parts of Atlantis' grounds, which you can see here. So I'm quite familiar with the access deed._
> Reef was sold as a hotel-condominium, not a timeshare. One unit has only one single owner. Most of the units there are owned by individuals, but there's a few left in Atlantis inventory that might, theoretically, be available for timeshare usage.  But these units have values in the 7-figure range....and there probably are not enough units to make a floating system work, so it would be fixed week/fixed unit.
> ...



Marriott and Marriott Vacations Worldwide both have options here without incorporating Harborside into the mix at all.  Atlantis rooms/units can be offered through the hotel loyalty program, Marriott Rewards, using MR Points and Travel Packages the same as any other hotel/resort in the portfolio.  As well, they could be made available to the timeshare owners/members who participate in the Destination Club, using their DC Points the same as any other participating Autograph property (which is through the DC Explorer Collection.)

Harborside could definitely stand alone, especially if access to the Atlantis amenities is and must be incorporated into all of the legal filings involved in Marriott's affiliation here.

What is the Reef; how does it fit into the entire complex?  Is that what the water park is called?

{eta} Doh!  Right there in front of my face!  I see, it's another separate building, of wholly-owned condos?  Do Harborside and/or other Starwood owners have access to Reef units?


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## Westin5Star (Jul 10, 2014)

It's situations like this that I wish Jarta would contribute :hysterical:

Salty


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## komosatp (Jul 11, 2014)

komosatp said:


> Conversions of any units from hotel rooms to timeshares is highly unlikely. That would be making a material change to the collateral behind the loans.  You can't do that (unless its already structured that way in the deal).


Potentially interesting development: this week's Commercial Mortgage Alert did not have an article about this transaction.  That could mean that new loans are not making their way into a security.   If they aren't headed to a Wall Street CMBS, there is potentially more latitude to make changes to the hotel towers at Atlantis. For example, one of the institutions that has a piece of the debt could choose to restructure their piece into a construction loan, were Atlantis/Brookfield to decide to make some sort-of change.

_If the loan makes it way into a CMBS, its much more difficult to make change to underlying collateral, because the legal trusts that make up the security are set up to keep the collateral stable, so the security can be easily traded.  
_


SueDonJ said:


> What is the Reef; how does it fit into the entire complex?  Is that what the water park is called?
> 
> {eta} Doh!  Right there in front of my face!  I see, it's another separate building, of wholly-owned condos?  Do Harborside and/or other Starwood owners have access to Reef units?


No HRA or SVO access to Reef units, other than $$$$$s.

The right way of looking at this is Harborside is a separate legal entity from Atlantis, with HRA access to Atlantis's amenities granted by virtue of an access deed (and a related access payment from HRA owners to Atlantis contained within HRA annual dues). There is no relationship between HRA and the Reef, other than the overall access agreement.

I don't know the details of the Reef's legal structure, but there are a few things I'm pretty sure about:
1) Reef units are owned by individuals. Owners must rent their units via Atlantis' hotel occupancy system for at least 3/4 of the nights of the year, or they are subject to a huge Bahamian duty/tax related to buying Bahamian property and/or being a Bahamian resident. I've heard its on the order of 100% of the purchase price of the unit.

2) Atlantis has some pretty strict rules about owners being required to renting their unit through the Atlantis hotel-room booking system, rather than doing it themselves (undercutting other owners and racing to the bottom, etc.). 

3) When Reef owners occupy their unit, for the 90 or so days per year they are allowed to do so, they have to pay daily usage fees to Atlantis, on the order of $100 per person per night.

4) The Reef was part of trend in the heyday of the housing-boom to build hotel-condos.  See Vdara and The Cosmopolitan in Las Vegas. This idea hasn't really been successful, but I think its turned ok at the Reef for both the Developer and the owners. I've seen reports of owners of Reef units having to sometimes cut a check to Atlantis because hotel room rents are not covering condo dues.  Some report their unit are making a decent income.  The units were sold for millions in the first place, so people with significant  means bought them.

I imagine Marriott's point system at Atlantis will either be super-expensive, or complicated.  That's because there are five different level of accommodation  at Atlantis, plus Harborside.  And each of those five levels has multiple views and room types within them. Go do a dummy booking at Atlantis and you'll see what I mean.


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## SueDonJ (Jul 11, 2014)

komosatp said:


> Potentially interesting development: this week's Commercial Mortgage Alert did not have an article about this transaction.  That could mean that new loans are not making their way into a security.   If they aren't headed to a Wall Street CMBS, there is potentially more latitude to make changes to the hotel towers at Atlantis. For example, one of the institutions that has a piece of the debt could choose to restructure their piece into a construction loan, were Atlantis/Brookfield to decide to make some sort-of change.
> 
> _If the loan makes it way into a CMBS, its much more difficult to make change to underlying collateral, because the legal trusts that make up the security are set up to keep the collateral stable, so the security can be easily traded.
> _
> ...



Thanks for this, komosatp.  We're in agreement that Harborside can exist as is, completely separate from Marriott's affiliation with Atlantis but still with total access.

But the Reef access through Atlantis' booking system is interesting.  Should MVW begin offering Atlantis through the Explorer Collection in its Destination Club (not all of the Autograph properties are available in this way,) the Reef condo units could mean a more traditional timeshare set-up than the hotel units.  Like you say, though, there should be no doubt that if it happens it will be expensive DC Points-wise even with a sliding scale based on unit size/location/date.  Most of the Autograph Collection options are.


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## twinmommy19 (Jul 11, 2014)

> But the Reef access through Atlantis' booking system is interesting. Should MVW begin offering Atlantis through the Explorer Collection in its Destination Club (not all of the Autograph properties are available in this way,) the Reef condo units could mean a more traditional timeshare set-up than the hotel units.



Yes - very interesting.   The Reef is set up very much like a traditional TS.  Even the studios have mini-kitchens with stove tops and microwaves plus from what I remember having stayed a long time ago, there was also laundry facilities (not in the room but on site for studio guests).   

I also wonder if Marriott will figure out a way to take a percentage of the units that are owned and currently rented out by Atlantis and somehow bundle them into TS sales (obviously not deeded sales but perhaps they can come up with some creative form of a RTU contract that complies with Bahama law)?


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## komosatp (Jul 11, 2014)

bonk2boy said:


> I also wonder if Marriott will figure out a way to take a percentage of the units that are owned and currently rented out by Atlantis and somehow bundle them into TS sales (obviously not deeded sales but perhaps they can come up with some creative form of a RTU contract that complies with Bahama law)?


I'm not sure there's a need to re-purpose Reef units, as it sounds like its sold-out, with just a few units unsold.  HRA is similar in that they've recently shut-down the on-site sales center, and now just have a skeleton staff to sell the units they end up re-owning.

Another thing to keep in mind about the Reef, is usage of a unit there leads to a real cash payment to an owner for the usage of that unit. In the other towers at Atlantis, usage redeemed by loyalty/points can be taken out of a 'pools' of rooms that would have otherwise been vacant. Reef is real money.


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## YYJMSP (Jul 13, 2014)

Westin5Star said:


> It's situations like this that I wish Jarta would contribute :hysterical:



Is it wrong to say that I think I miss the guy?


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## okwiater (Jul 13, 2014)

YYJMSP said:


> Is it wrong to say that I think I miss the guy?


No, you're not alone. I appreciated his commentary, even if his delivery was a little rough around the edges.


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## Henry M. (Jul 13, 2014)

I didn't realize jarta was banned. I never had a problem with him. I could see how he got under a couple of people's skin, but generally he wasn't too bad. He was just a counterpoint to all the Starwood corporate bashing that tends to happen on this site. I agree his delivery was sometimes a bit too confrontational, but I never saw anything worthy of a ban.


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## PamMo (Jul 14, 2014)

okwiater said:


> No, you're not alone. I appreciated his commentary, even if his delivery was a little rough around the edges.



Ditto here. I enjoyed reading Jarta's counter viewpoints and gained some valuable knowledge from his posts. I'd been wondering about him lately, and thought maybe he was on an extensive round-the-world trip and just too busy to post. (I didn't want to think he was ill.) That he was banned from TUG never even entered my mind. It was obvious he got under some people's skins, but I'm truly sorry he was banned.


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## tomandrobin (Jul 14, 2014)

Wow.....Gonna join the party here.......I did not realized he was banned either. I like Jarta and his "different" perspective.


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## Westin5Star (Jul 15, 2014)

I don't think he was banned for getting under skin, I believe that he repeatedly violated the rules of conduct.  He presented a counter point of view that I don't miss much (other than these legal type items). Salty


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## SueDonJ (Oct 15, 2014)

FYI, Marriott posted Atlantis info today; see Post #34 in this thread on the Marriott forum.

I know they cover all their bases so are purposefully vague about some things when they make these announcements, but this is sort of interesting - "*Is Marriott Vacation Club taking over the timeshares on the Atlantis property?* At this time, no, Harborside Resort will not become a Marriott Vacation Club property."


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## komosatp (Oct 16, 2014)

SueDonJ said:


> FYI, Marriott posted Atlantis info today; see Post #34 in this thread on the Marriott forum


I saw, in that thread, that you can't redeem points for stays at The Reef. Not surprising, when you consider:


komosatp said:


> Another thing to keep in mind about the Reef, is usage of a unit there leads to a real cash payment to an owner for the usage of that unit. In the other towers at Atlantis, usage redeemed by loyalty/points can be taken out of a 'pools' of rooms that would have otherwise been vacant. Reef is real money.


Are there any units, elsewhere in the Marriott loyalty system, where units available with points are owned by individuals?  I'm thinking anything like Cottages at The Greenbrier, that are owned by people but rented nightly like a hotel room through the resort.


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## komosatp (Oct 16, 2014)

Changing the subject, back to the original news in this thread:

Judge Approves $110 Million Sale of Revel Casino to Brookfield


> Oct. 7, 2014 - Atlantic City, N.J.’s Revel Casino will be sold to private-equity firm Brookfield Capital Partners LP for $110 million, a U.S. judge decided, rejecting Florida real-estate developer Glenn Straub ’s arguments he didn’t get a chance to top the bid.


Brookfield now owns Atlantis, the Hard Rock in Vegas, and the Revel. I don't know if there are long-term plans to hold or sell these properties, but they make a nice little portfolio of well-known high-end casino hotel brands, if one of the major hotel management companies wanted to build a foundation for a new division of hotels that included gaming.


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## RALnGA (Oct 22, 2014)

*Do you think Marriott will take over Harborside at some point?*

While at Harborside last week I noticed where Atlantis was hosting a big event about Marriott joining Atlantis.Then Monday Marriott was advertising rooms at *OUR*  5 hotels ..Royal Towers,The Cove,Coral Towers ,Beach Towers and The Reef...
We were told Marriott paid Atlantis 300 million dollars...With that they will start building more slides ,pools and other attractions in a few years...
My question is how can two different Timeshare Resorts compete in the same market...Plus with Atlantis having new owners who's to say they don't sale their interest of Harborside to Marriott...
Just wondering what others think...

RAL


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## Ken555 (Oct 22, 2014)

*Do you think Marriott will take over Harborside at some point?*

From what I understand, Marriott is simply managing the Atlantis hotels, not that there's a Marriott timeshare there. Marriott is much more than a timeshare company.


Sent from my iPad


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## YYJMSP (Oct 23, 2014)

RALnGA said:


> Then Monday Marriott was advertising rooms at *OUR*  5 hotels ..Royal Towers,The Cove,Coral Towers ,Beach Towers and The Reef...



Correct me if I'm wrong, but Starwood has no ownership or management interest in those properties.

SVO just has Harbourside.


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## okwiater (Oct 23, 2014)

YYJMSP said:


> Correct me if I'm wrong, but Starwood has no ownership or management interest in those properties.
> 
> SVO just has Harbourside.


That's correct.


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## RALnGA (Oct 23, 2014)

OUR =Marriott..Not Starwood
That was an ad from Marriott put out Monday...


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## DeniseM (Oct 24, 2014)

Harborside and Atlantis have separate ownership, and management.  Marriott is managing Atlantis as a hotel - not a timeshare.  

Harborside is managed by Starwood, in theory, at the direction of the timeshare owners as represented by the Harborside board of directors.


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## RALnGA (Oct 24, 2014)

Thank you all for the input and clarifying this for me ...

RAL


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## SueDonJ (Oct 24, 2014)

Another wrinkle is that the Atlantis hotels are now under the Marriott, Int'l. umbrella, which is a separate company from the timeshare developer/manager, Marriott Vacations Worldwide Corp.  Effectively, Marriott timeshares have the same relationship to MI as the majority of Marriott hotels do - they pay an annual fee for the rights to use the name and share some IT services.

A management change at Harbourside from Starwood to Marriott wouldn't surprise me (no timeshare management change would,) but it's not something I'd expect simply because of the new relationship between Atlantis and MI.  If it never happens it's still a good thing for the Marriott timeshare owners that we now have Atlantis options through the Marriott Rewards and MVW Destination Club programs.


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## tschwa2 (Oct 24, 2014)

DeniseM said:


> Harborside and Atlantis have separate ownership, and management.  Marriott is managing Atlantis as a hotel - not a timeshare.
> 
> Harborside is managed by Starwood, in theory, at the direction of the timeshare owners as represented by the Harborside board of directors.



My understanding is Marriott will not even be managing Atlantis.  They simply lent a bunch of money and in return, part of the deal allows them to add it to their "autograph collection" so Marriott rewards members can earn and redeem rewards points for stays at Atlantis (minus Harborside).




> George Markantonis, the resort’s president and managing director, said Atlantis would benefit from the wide reach of Marriott’s loyalty program, which has 45 million members.
> 
> Even with a quarter of the resort’s business coming from groups, Markantonis said he sees potential for growth in that area as well.
> 
> ...



Read more here: http://www.miamiherald.com/news/business/article1973897.html#storylink=cpy


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## SueDonJ (Oct 24, 2014)

komosatp said:


> ... Are there any units, elsewhere in the Marriott loyalty system, where units available with points are owned by individuals?  I'm thinking anything like Cottages at The Greenbrier, that are owned by people but rented nightly like a hotel room through the resort.



Eeeesh.  This is the kind of question that makes you think for days on end.  

I can't think of any except the Ritz-Carlton Residence Clubs and, maybe, the Renaissance property in Aruba.  I believe owners are able to rent those for a cash return through MI and/or MVW, on a different basis than the rental program available to timeshare Weeks owners through MVW.

It might be possible with any of the "boutique" hotel properties that MI lumps together in their "Lifestyle Collection" if whole/fractional ownership is possible with any of those.


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## DeniseM (Oct 24, 2014)

tschwa2 said:


> My understanding is Marriott will not even be managing Atlantis.  They simply lent a bunch of money and in return, part of the deal allows them to add it to their "autograph collection" so Marriott rewards members can earn and redeem rewards points for stays at Atlantis (minus Harborside).



Thanks for the correction - I mis-spoke.


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## Weimaraner (Oct 24, 2014)

Just received my email today from Marriott Rewards sharing the news about earning MR points for a stay at Atlantis and using points toward a stay. It says to call to book with points. Also this promotion:
Rates from $99 + Kids Eat Free 
For a limited time, stay at Atlantis starting from only $99 per night in the Beach Tower – and kids eat breakfast and dinner free – if you book by November 18, 2014. To earn points for your stay*, include your Marriott Rewards® number when you book.


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## Beaglemom3 (Oct 24, 2014)

Got this offer as you may have, too.


Whoopsie. TMI. Deleted

It's the $99 and up offer from Marriott for an Atlantis stay. Must book by Nov. 18th. 

Check your emails.



-


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## mariawolf (Oct 24, 2014)

What will be interesting is how easy it will be to book with Marriott points--right now you have to call and can't do it online. Will they limit the numbers of "point" rooms similar to airlines and frequent flyer miles. Also whether if you are are a Platinum member will you get special benefits and upgrades--my son is Marriott platinum so will see what happens if he tries to book.


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