# MAJOR Wyndham Problem --- Help!!!



## tkokid (Apr 16, 2015)

We purchased a resale 300K property (Cypress Palms) about 5 years ago.  There was a problem with the transfer and it didn't go through in a timely manner.  Ultimately, it did go through but here is the problem.

During the process of the transfer, we were on a discovery package and took our final vacation (with that package) at the Wisconsin Dells Glacier Canyon.  It was there that we met Trent Nelson.  To make a long story short, Trent is the most dishonest lying SOB I have EVER met.  

We were in a Sales presentation to get us to convert our discovery package over to a regular points package.  I told Trent we had NO Intention of buying and that we had already purchased a Resale package and were waiting for the deed to be transferred into our name.  It was then that they lying started.  Trent asked if the deed was in our name yet and we told him it wasn't.  We told him it was 300Kto which he replied.... Well... then that is even more reason for you to purchase with us.  Since you don't have a member number in the system yet, when the 300K hits your account, it will simply be added to your current member number that will be assigned to you when you buy the package from me.  With the added points, you will get the VIP benefits.  He explained that Wyndham had no way of telling the difference between points bought on resale and points bought directly from them...  We believed him and bought 168K semi annual points.

We didn't find out till we went to an "Owner Update" at Bonnet Creek a year later that the only way we got the VIP status was that Trent had given us a bunch of "Bonus Points" to get us there.  

I called Trent from Orlando and told him that Bonnet creek was telling us that we were going to lose the VIP status the following month.  Trent says... They're Lying to you... They just want to sell you more points.  Come back up here and I will get everything solved for you.  Well...The more we talked to Bonnet Creek, the more we realized it was Trent that was lying.  

Long story short from there, it is suffice to say that we have all but exhausted EVERY avenue to get this resolved.  We have tried to talk to Trent directly on 4 different time frames to which we have been told all 4 times that he was on vacation during the time we were there.  The one time we didn't ask for him, he showed up to our room to do our "Owner Update".  When we confronted him, he said he was going to go get his supervisor and then never showed back up.  No supervisor, no Trent, no person at all.  We have talked to SEVERAL Levels of corporate for the last 5 years straight.  We have even talked to Wyndham's Legal department who has just told us to basically "Go TO H***"

At this point, we have even told Wyndham that we aren't going to make any more payments on the Glacier Canyon contract.  They are now saying that the two contracts are linked (Glacier Canyon & Cypress Palms) and that our payment can not be split.  If we make a partial payment on our maintenance fees, then that payment will be split partially between the two properties.  If we stop making payments, then they will foreclose on BOTH properties.  

We own the Cypress Palms property outright.  How can they get away with this?  At this point, they have frozen our accounts, blocked our vacations and canceled all upcoming vacations already booked.   The two contracts were purchased from separate locations at separate times.  One is resale and one is a Wyndham purchase.  

I feel like it is like a bank telling me that if I own two houses and fail to make payments on one of them, that they will repo both of them and I can't live in either till I catch the one property up.  I don't get it..

We don't really have the money for an attorney.  Suggestions & Help would be MUCH appreciated!!!


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## MaryBella7 (Apr 16, 2015)

I am not sure I understand completely, but have you paid all maintenance fees on your properties?  Your contracts are together in one account, and I am not sure how to separate them or if you can.

Your contract is likely limited to what you have signed, and unscrupulous people count on you being unable to prove otherwise.  Does your contract say that bonus points give you temporary VIP or does it state that you are getting VIP with your resale points? 

If your contracts do not state what you want, it is likely that you would need to pay a lawyer to try to prove otherwise.

I am not trying to point blame at you - do not get me wrong!! There is a lot of horrible behavior in sales! I am trying to give you a realistic answer to the scenario you have given.


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## am1 (Apr 16, 2015)

I am sorry for this situation but until your accounts are caught up you cannot separate the accounts.  

That being said if you stop paying the monthly fees you are hurting your fellow owners more than you are Wyndham.  

You were lied to but it was because you were trying to get VIP for as cheap as possible.  The sales people are good and found a way to sell you on buying more.  The good news is is that you are not losing something you should have got in the first place.  

It is an uphill battle and Wyndham loves to fight every way they can.


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## tkokid (Apr 16, 2015)

lhumes7 said:


> I am not sure I understand completely, but have you paid all maintenance fees on your properties?  Your contracts are together in one account, and I am not sure how to separate them or if you can.
> 
> Your contract is likely limited to what you have signed, and unscrupulous people count on you being unable to prove otherwise.  Does your contract say that bonus points give you temporary VIP or does it state that you are getting VIP with your resale points?
> 
> ...



I appreciate the reply... I will try and answer your questions.
The contract for the Glacier Canyon contract is a standard contract that I should have read before signing.  Wyndham presented it so fast that it was here... this means this, sign here...  This is this....sign here...  etc... we signed about 20 papers in about 5 min.  We took Trent Nelson to be a man of his word and didn't realize how badly he was lying to us.  

Here's my problem....  We are simply trying to get out of the Glacier canyon contract even after paying for it for 5 years.  We know that we are screwed on the contract so we are willing to take the hit on our credit report to allow them to just simply reposes it to get out of it.  The problem is, we purchased a totally separate contract (300K Cypress Palms) through resale 6 months before signing the contract on the Glacier Canyon property.  We paid for the Cypress Palms contract in full and own it outright.  We still have a balance due on the Glacier canyon contract.  Our maintenance fee's have been combined into a single member number and Wyndham is refusing to separate them.  Our maintenance fees are around $160 on the Cypress property and $45 on the Glacier Canyon.  We are trying to pay the $160 for the Cypress property (which we own outright) and not pay a single penny more on Glacier Canyon.  We feel that since we own Cypress Palms outright and are paying for the maintenance on that property, we should get to use it... Wyndham is saying otherwise.  Wyndham is saying that even if we only pay the $160 that they will split that between Cypress and Glacier and we will still be behind on BOTH properties.  We have STRONGLY objected to that but their response was, "I am sorry you don't like that response but that is the way it is"...  

I could go into WAY more detail on the headache we have gone through trying to reason with them and prove to them that we were lied to but long story short, and at their comment, they don't care... We signed the contract and that is the end of the story.


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## tkokid (Apr 16, 2015)

am1 said:


> I am sorry for this situation but until your accounts are caught up you cannot separate the accounts.
> 
> That being said if you stop paying the monthly fees you are hurting your fellow owners more than you are Wyndham.
> 
> ...



When we met with Trent Nelson, we had NO INTENTION of buying ANYTHING.  We weren't trying to get VIP or anything else.  We didn't even know what VIP was.  Trent was the one who brought up the VIP benefits.  When he brought them up, he told us not to say anything to his supervisor about our 300K Cypress property.  I should have realized he was a liar right then but I thought he was trying to help us.  We had been given so many perks with our discovery package that I just thought this was another one.  The Cypress Property was our first venture into ownership (other than the discovery package).  I have presented this resolve to them SEVERAL times.... Either give us the VIP we were promised or simply let us out of the contract.  We didn't even ask for money back... just dissolve the contract and we will eat what we have paid as lesson learned.  Wyndham is refusing to do either.  Their position is that we signed the contract so we are screwed till it's paid off....


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## jjmanthei05 (Apr 16, 2015)

You may want to look at trying to deed the cyprus one into only one of your names. That may get it to split from the glacier canyon one. Just a thought. 

Jason


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## tkokid (Apr 16, 2015)

jjmanthei05 said:


> You may want to look at trying to deed the cyprus one into only one of your names. That may get it to split from the glacier canyon one. Just a thought.
> 
> Jason



That's actually a good idea but isn't there like a $400 transfer fee to do that?  I know there was something like that when we originally purchased it.  I have no clue how to do a property transfer... where would I look up how to do that?


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## ronparise (Apr 16, 2015)

If you are willing to walk away and take the hit on your credit...do it. You will lose the whole mess, but then you can buy another 300000 points on the secondary market.  or rent


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## tkokid (Apr 16, 2015)

ronparise said:


> If you are willing to walk away and take the hit on your credit...do it. You will lose the whole mess, but then you can buy another 300000 points on the secondary market.  or rent



That's not a bad Idea either... I really want to keep the 300K at Cypress though.  We got it for $1 plus the transfer fee.  If I could find another at that price, that is exactly what I think we would do..


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## Passepartout (Apr 16, 2015)

I'm confused. What assistance are you hoping to get from TUGgers? This appears to be between you and Wyndham.


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## tkokid (Apr 16, 2015)

Passepartout said:


> I'm confused. What assistance are you hoping to get from TUGgers? This appears to be between you and Wyndham.



I am just hoping that someone has an idea how to address this other than what I have thought of.  I am considering suing them in small claims or forcing them to separate the contracts.  To be honest, I am not really sure what I am looking for.  Just some sort of answer.  What they have done and what they are doing is totally wrong.  I feel like there has to be some way of holding them accountable...  I guess I am basically looking for advice and hoping there may be a lawyer in the group or ???  I really don't know...

I Just don't get how they can repo both contracts because one is late and/or refuse to apply my payments as I want them applied.  

To me... That is like I own the house I live in and then also own a rental over 1,000 miles away... and because I am late on the payment for the rental, the bank can repo both properties and tell me that I can't live in the one I am not late on....  That has to be against some law somewhere but then I am not a lawyer....


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## ronparise (Apr 16, 2015)

jjmanthei05 said:


> You may want to look at trying to deed the cyprus one into only one of your names. That may get it to split from the glacier canyon one. Just a thought.
> 
> Jason



Jason

I dont think they will allow the transfer as long as he owes back mf.  I know they have my various accounts so tightly linked  that I cant buy a new Wyndham contract if I owe dues on any of my member numbers, even my worldmark,  and the other day I was told I had to pay next months mf on one account before I could transfer a contract from one of my accounts into it, 

If he is willing to take the hit on his credit...let them both go.  Then he can rent from you or me.


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## ronparise (Apr 16, 2015)

tkokid said:


> I am just hoping that someone has an idea how to address this other than what I have thought of.  I am considering suing them in small claims or forcing them to separate the contracts.  To be honest, I am not really sure what I am looking for.  Just some sort of answer.  What they have done and what they are doing is totally wrong.  I feel like there has to be some way of holding them accountable...



just be careful.. If you press this Wyndham may come after your other assets ie obtain a judgement,  to get their money

Ive had clients that had to clean up old bad debt, before they could sell their home


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## markb53 (Apr 16, 2015)

tkokid said:


> When we met with Trent Nelson, we had NO INTENTION of buying ANYTHING.  We weren't trying to get VIP or anything else.  We didn't even know what VIP was.  Trent was the one who brought up the VIP benefits.  When he brought them up, he told us not to say anything to his supervisor about our 300K Cypress property.  I should have realized he was a liar right then but I thought he was trying to help us.  We had been given so many perks with our discovery package that I just thought this was another one.  The Cypress Property was our first venture into ownership (other than the discovery package).  I have presented this resolve to them SEVERAL times.... Either give us the VIP we were promised or simply let us out of the contract.  We didn't even ask for money back... just dissolve the contract and we will eat what we have paid as lesson learned.  Wyndham is refusing to do either.  Their position is that we signed the contract so we are screwed till it's paid off....



In my view you only hare 4 choices.
1) Hire a lawyer. I don't think you will win since you signed the contract. And you got everything you agreed to. Only the signed contract is valid. Nothing that Trent said counts, only what is in writing.
2) You can walk away from the whole thing and loose it all. Not a good option either.
3) You can get current on the Glacier  Canyon MF. Pay off the loan on Glacier Canyon and then sell or give away the Glacier Canyon contract. Glacier Canyon contracts do have some value.
4)Or lastly the same a 3 above but keep Glacier Canyon and Cypress Palms and enjoy it.


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## tkokid (Apr 16, 2015)

ronparise said:


> just be careful.. If you press this Wyndham may come after your other assets ie obtain a judgement,  to get their money
> 
> Ive had clients that had to clean up old bad debt, before they could sell their home



I appreciate the warning.  Thank you... I am just not getting it how they can do this and get away with it.  They keep manipulating the rules and policies however they want and almost dare you to challenge them.  Unfortunately, I have never been one to allow that to happen to family or myself...


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## CruiseGuy (Apr 17, 2015)

I'm deleting because I think my response sounded mean, when that wasn't really the intent.  I feel for your situation, bit I think you're most likely stuck with what you have based on the contract that you signed, unless you can prove you didn't get something that is actually written in the contract.


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## ronparise (Apr 17, 2015)

tkokid said:


> I appreciate the warning.  Thank you... I am just not getting it how they can do this and get away with it.  They keep manipulating the rules and policies however they want and almost dare you to challenge them.  Unfortunately, I have never been one to allow that to happen to family or myself...



How they can get away with is that they just can

You owe them money and they will do what they can to collect,  Perhaps you are right but is it worth the fight to press your case. 

  You remind me of the guy that steps off the curb at a crosswalk and gets run over by a bus.  He had the right of way, the bus was supposed to stop, but it didnt... The guy was right of course....dead right

Having said that ,  I know of two cases where victims of lying wyndham salesmen were able to convince Wyndham to reverse a sale, take back the points, forgive the loan and return them  to their previous condition. Like you both were already owners and were convinced to buy more

What these two had in common was that they could prove the lie


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## bogey21 (Apr 17, 2015)

markb53 said:


> 3) You can get current on the Glacier  Canyon MF. Pay off the loan on Glacier Canyon and then sell or give away the Glacier Canyon contract. Glacier Canyon contracts do have some value.
> 
> 4)Or lastly the same a 3 above but keep Glacier Canyon and Cypress Palms and enjoy it.



I don't own any Wyndham so am flying blind but my gut tells me you are not going to win in any confrontation with Wyndham at this late date.  Thus I think you are going to have to make the best out of a bad situation.  Alternatives 3) and 4) sound like reasonable ways to proceed.

George


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## tkokid (Apr 17, 2015)

I appreciate every ones replies.  I am more concerned with losing the Cypress Palms contract than anything at this point.  

Yes... I was lied to but I signed the contract.  Live and learn.
I was lied to MULTIPLE times with once being in front of the sales reps at Bonnet creek while Trent was on Speaker Phone.  Of course, after the fact, those reps are no longer available for comment.  Still not my concern....

Trent Nelson... Lying MOFO but then I am sure I am not the first person he has lied to.  He no longer works as a salesman but unfortunately, he's still employed by Wyndham...Does this concern me, Of course it does but again, not my main focus....

Here's the main focus at this point.  
What in the hell gives Wyndham the right to repo both properties when I own the Cypress Palms property outright and am not behind on the MF payments?  
Why do they get to dictate how my payments are applied?

The thought that they even think that they can do this and get away with it is just mind boggling...  

I called and talked to 2 different Owner Care Reps today.  First one had the audacity to tell me that she was a supervisor while someone in the back ground was listening to the call and feeding her lines on what to say.  Wyndham continues to lie.  When I asked who was coaching her in the background and for her to just put that person on the line, she hung up on me.  2nd owner care rep tried to help but called me back with EXACTLY the same info in that the deeds couldn't be separated and the MF would be distributed as they see fit....
I am VERY much considering small claims locally but need to research how to file when I am not seeking monetary damages...


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## tschwa2 (Apr 17, 2015)

Wyndham certainly isn't alone in this practice.  I believe just about every timeshare company (and even small individual resorts) will lock you out of using any of your units if one is not kept up to date.  I would imagine it'is documented somewhere, it might even predate Wyndham for when it was Fairfield.


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## Harry (Apr 17, 2015)

I have been following this with some interest. It appears that some material misrepresentation took place. Without giving any legal advice suffice to say that you have a remedy here.  It has been mentioned above, kind of.  If you have an attorney or a friend that is an attorney or a bar association that has a legal referral set up, take your documents and communicate as you have here. Options are going to be legal action, walk away with credit hit and possible adverse judgment or living with what you got. 
Good luck.  Always read the documents or take them to someone who can.

Harry


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## tkokid (Apr 17, 2015)

Harry said:


> I have been following this with some interest. It appears that some material misrepresentation took place. Without giving any legal advice suffice to say that you have a remedy here.  It has been mentioned above, kind of.  If you have an attorney or a friend that is an attorney or a bar association that has a legal referral set up, take your documents and communicate as you have here. Options are going to be legal action, walk away with credit hit and possible adverse judgment or living with what you got.
> Good luck.  Always read the documents or take them to someone who can.
> 
> Harry



Thank you for this.  Unfortunately, I have no friends that are attorney's and can not afford one myself for something like this.  Bar association is an idea.  Can you recommend how I would go about contacting my local bar association?  I am assuming they aren't just listed in the phone directory...  Thanks again!


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## vacationhopeful (Apr 17, 2015)

I have read your entire thread.

RonPaise is RIGHT ... both contracts are under 1 member number. Either accept that or basicly think about filing bankruptcy .. that is the ONLY way Wyndham goes away along with the debt for the developer GC points.

So, it is YOUR PRIDE and get it under control before you find a wage attachment to your income and find out YOU have no points access but still owing MORE and MORE MFs owed - like forever. Can't transfer anything out of your name til it is brought up to date with ALL PAYMENTs owed to Wyndham.

And Wyndham gets even MORE expensive in their costs. They even have a $500+ monthly LATE CHARGE for any stuff unpaid after 2 months ... charged every month. 

*So either get a LAWYER to file bankruptcy or to get things calmed down with Wyndham. THEY OWN YOU ... *

As for Trent .. he is most likely still working for Wyndham .. sounds like a great asset to their sales team. I have had sales staff (male) who I have called the POLICE (not resort security) to remove them from beating on my door while staying at a resort. Fortunately, the most of the Hangtag girls hated him, too ... they would tell me where he was working or his current stalking habits (fixations). 

The only thing Wyndham was concerned with, was does a salesperson have a current real estate license with that state. Or do you have an order of protection from the jerk (still will lie on that one; might be in the next room, but I would be told he no longer works for Wyndham) ... that was the one I could get (if I wanted to as I had multiple outside the sales office) but realized it was NOT worth the money.

PS The real police showing up at the resort did get reported to the Resort Manager ... and again, lies by Wyndham. I think I was told many, many times, he was no longer 1) Working there 2) not allowed on property 3) no longer had a real estate license (might be partial correct but was because he renewal of his RE license had NOT been paid) 4) fired a dozen plus times (but rehired 13+ times) 5) moved out of state (working for Wyndham out of state) 6) in jail (for not paying child support).


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## vacationhopeful (Apr 17, 2015)

If you have had the Developer purchase for 5 years now ... you are over 1/2 paid thru this loan. Personally, correct YOUR attitude ... if you can't, turn it over to YOUR WIFE or another relative to handle the paperwork to pay the bills monthly. Then rent vacations to cover some of the MFs. 

And avoid the Hangtag staff - might have to have your wife check in and get the keycards for the unit. The resorts are nice and you must have liked the places enough to have brought resale ... but sales is vicious, relentless and liars. 

Just stopped having it RUIN your life and your family's financial future (by filling bankruptcy). Really, in 15-20 years later, do you want to people to ask "WHAT happen (that caused you to file bankruptcy?)? AS the common reasons for MANY bankruptcy filings are" No family? Your career? Why are you homeless and without friends and family? Was it drinking or gambling or drugs or chasing other women or are you a criminal?" 

Saying "Wyndham" really sounds STUPID on your part in 10-15 years as to WHY you filed bankruptcy, doesn't it?

ADDED: Not a personal attack on YOU ...


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## tkokid (Apr 17, 2015)

Thanks Linda,
Sounds Like a lawyer and a class action lawsuit it is.  
Bankruptcy over a $7,000 loan?  Lose my rental properties, my business, and my vehicles over something that I have been wronged on?
What in God's name makes you think I would lose my family and my life over this?  Ruin my life for 15-20 years down the road?  Bankruptcy lasts on your credit for a maximum of 10 yrs even if I were thinking about going that route (which I am not).  Why in the hell would you think I would have to explain Alcoholism?  Drugs? or any of the other atrocities you mention above? There have been some VERY helpful comments and sound advice but your bashing's weren't one of them... Wow ... Do you work for Wyndham?  

I think I'll sue so this doesn't happen to anyone else.  Thanks for the push. I appreciate it.

I did misrepresent myself in this thread a small bit and for that, I apologize.  Fact is, I can afford a lawyer and that is EXACTLY what I am going to do.  I just didn't want to have to go that route.

The main reason I opened this thread was to see if anyone had any other ideas.  I know I have been wronged.  I know Wyndham can't do (Legally) what they are trying to do.  I was just hoping to get it settled without having to go that route and hoping maybe someone else had this happen to them and knew a way around it.  I guess not.  

Again, Thank you to everyone who responded constructively.  Your advice and insight was much appreciated.


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## vacationhopeful (Apr 17, 2015)

Hang around .. I do NOT work for Wyndham; just another owner with Wyndham. 

I try to avoid having chaos and/or added stress in my life.


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## ace2000 (Apr 17, 2015)

tkokid said:


> Thanks Linda,
> Sounds Like a lawyer and a class action lawsuit it is.



What's the class action lawsuit going to be based on?  I think you've got some good advice on this thread with a few options, but unless you can prove something in writing, you're not going to get very far with any lawsuit.  Unfortunately, you have a lot of company with many others that believe they were wronged by a Wyndham sales rep.  But it comes down to the paperwork you signed.

I hope it works out for you though... good luck!


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## tkokid (Apr 17, 2015)

ace2000 said:


> What's the class action lawsuit going to be based on?  I think you've got some good advice on this thread with a few options, but unless you can prove something in writing, you're not going to get very far with any lawsuit.  Unfortunately, you have a lot of company with many others that believe they were wronged by a Wyndham sales rep.  But it comes down to the paperwork you signed.
> 
> I hope it works out for you though... good luck!



Class action will be based on the fact that Wyndham can't dictate how payments are applied to an account.  That would be like me going to a grocery store, putting two loaves of bread in the shopping cart then deciding at the checkout, that I only want one.  Then the store, AFTER taking my money, says that if I don't pay for both, then I can't have either and keeps me from the benefits of the one I have paid for.  

I can use that same analogy with real estate properties. 

It's like Wyndham is saying that since they own both mortgages (and this is a property mortgage), they can decide on which property my payment goes to. I compare it to owning your primary residence and a rental property.  Lets say you are current on your primary residence mortgage payment but you are in default on your rental property.  The bank can not make you move out of your primary residence and repo both properties because you are in default of the rental property mortgage.  They can put a lean on the primary but they can't keep you from living there, repossess it, or keep you from enjoying the benefits of that primary residence.  It's not lawful to do so and that is EXACTLY what Wyndham is trying to do...


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## tkokid (Apr 17, 2015)

BTW... Just for the record, I have been around this group for about 4-5 years now.  I found it shortly after I purchased my Cypress Palms property.  I am not sure why my join date shows March 2015 but that is far from the case.  This is my first thread but I have been lurking for QUITE some time.  There was a property that I even helped with the transfer of to a friend of mine which was at least 2 years ago.  I didn't help anymore than hooking the two of them up to negotiate but I still feel like I helped....


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## ace2000 (Apr 17, 2015)

This topic has come up in the past, I'm sure.  There may be other helpful information in one of the previous threads.  Anyway, good luck on getting it resolved.


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## tkokid (Apr 17, 2015)

ace2000 said:


> This topic has come up in the past, I'm sure.  There may be other helpful information in one of the previous threads.  Anyway, good luck on getting it resolved.



Thank you


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## tschwa2 (Apr 17, 2015)

tkokid said:


> Class action will be based on the fact that Wyndham can't dictate how payments are applied to an account.  That would be like me going to a grocery store, putting two loaves of bread in the shopping cart then deciding at the checkout, that I only want one.  Then the store, AFTER taking my money, says that if I don't pay for both, then I can't have either and keeps me from the benefits of the one I have paid for.
> 
> I can use that same analogy with real estate properties.
> 
> It's like Wyndham is saying that since they own both mortgages (and this is a property mortgage), they can decide on which property my payment goes to. I compare it to owning your primary residence and a rental property.  Lets say you are current on your primary residence mortgage payment but you are in default on your rental property.  The bank can not make you move out of your primary residence and repo both properties because you are in default of the rental property mortgage.  They can put a lean on the primary but they can't keep you from living there, repossess it, or keep you from enjoying the benefits of that primary residence.  It's not lawful to do so and that is EXACTLY what Wyndham is trying to do...



You need to take a look at the documents- public offering documents,cc& r's Wynham points plus, etc .  I would imagine there are 100's if not 1000's of pages of what they can and can't do.  Wyndham is also a membership, that you voluntarily joined by purchasing those properties.  Their rules can modify what you think would be logical in terms of how payments are credited.  I know I have a credit card that if I have multiple offers like no interest if paid in 6 months, some regular purchases and cash advance, the credit card company decides how my payment applies to my account.  I think it is generally highest interest first which may mean that the one that has no interest if paid in a certain time may not get paid in that time even though I sent in more than enough to cover that amount.


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## 55plus (Apr 17, 2015)

Bottom-line, never trust a Wyndham sales weasel, never. When they are talking they are also lying. Unfortunately you found out firsthand and I'm sorry for that. It's not the end of the world. Consider it a lesson learned and enjoy what you have. Get current and take a vacation. The longer you own and use it be better and more enjoyable it becomes...


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## Passepartout (Apr 17, 2015)

tkokid said:


> Class action will be based on the fact that Wyndham can't dictate how payments are applied to an account



The catch of starting a class action is to find a cause, with wide enough group of damaged parties, that a law firm can afford to contact all the potential clients, sign them up, and the party who causes the damage has deep enough pockets, AND the knowledge that their actions were causing damage, AND it can be proven.

Not saying that you were (are) not damaged, but the odds of recruiting a law firm to pursue Wyndham over sales practices are pretty slim. You might as well stand on a beach and shovel sand against the incoming tide. You'll feel good about the fight, but have very little effect on the tide.

Simply writing on your checks, "To be applied to account #________" would at least give you credence that your payments are earmarked to where YOU want them to go.

Jim


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## am1 (Apr 17, 2015)

The two timeshares are in one account.  The account needs to be kept current to be able to use either set of points or transfer new contracts in or out.

You would be wasting your time taking wyndham to court over that aspect.  You are shortchanging over owners by not paying the monthly fees not wyndham. 

If you want to take the fight to Wyndham take it to them over being lied to.  It will not be easy and take a long time and mostly you will lose.  

Me I make things right by getting the best value I can out of my timeshares.


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## DEScottzz (Apr 17, 2015)

Tkokid, I just hate to see you having such a bad stomach ache over this. You can bet that Trent Watsizname doesn't have a stomach ache, and there's nothing you can do to give him one. No matter how many times you call or what legal action you may take, you can't transfer your stomach ache to him. 

Hiring a lawyer is going to make your stomach ache worse, not better, because it will just prolong the time that you spend thinking about it. Every check you write to your lawyer will only make your stomach hurt more.

The best thing you can do to make your stomach feel better is to realize that believing a timeshare salesman was a mistake, but that you won't make that mistake again. Then put it behind you.

I'm dealing with a similar situation myself. It's not about money, but it's about trust. The advice I'm giving you I also give to myself every day, so I know it's not easy to follow, but I know it will give the best outcome.


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## MaryBella7 (Apr 17, 2015)

tkokid said:


> It's like Wyndham is saying that since they own both mortgages (and this is a property mortgage), they can decide on which property my payment goes to. I compare it to owning your primary residence and a rental property.  Lets say you are current on your primary residence mortgage payment but you are in default on your rental property.  The bank can not make you move out of your primary residence and repo both properties because you are in default of the rental property mortgage.  They can put a lean on the primary but they can't keep you from living there, repossess it, or keep you from enjoying the benefits of that primary residence.  It's not lawful to do so and that is EXACTLY what Wyndham is trying to do...



I don't know the answer, and you may have already done this, but probably the least expensive route to begin is to have a contracts lawyer check the contracts to ensure that what you signed didn't somehow give them a legal right to prevent you from using any of your Wyndham properties if you default on one.  Once again, I do not know, but having a professional check that first might be the best, and least expensive, way to start.

I do know that there are benefits to having the properties in one account - we get to combine our points from properties to make reservations, which is a good thing.  I guess that combination also comes with the bad.  I sincerely have no idea of any of the legalities, and am not trying to give you any kind of law lesson - I am not qualified!

I, too, am a fighter, but I have fought enough losing battles, however justified, to know that my own peace and health are best when I let it go and learn my lesson about the bad side of humanity.  I would start with a professional analysis of your contracts to see if this is a battle you have any hope of winning.  If you go full in on a lawsuit, you may end up just as aggravated and angry as you are now (if not more so), with less money in your pocket.


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## Ron2 (Apr 17, 2015)

Having read this entire thread, it appears that your primary complaint is that Wyndham will not let you separate your 2 contracts so you can stop payments on the Glacier Canyon contract (MF and loan). Since you have paid for and likely used the points from the GC contract for 5 years makes it very unlikely that you could prove that Wyndham is not providing what you signed up for.  The fact that your two contracts were combined gave you a lower annual fee because the CG contract standing alone would have been charged the minimum Program Fee and not the 55-cents per 1000 points, so you have benefited by combining the contracts. If I correctly understand one of your previous posts, you still only owe $7000 on the GC contract plus the MF that you refuse to pay. To hire a lawyer to fight this would likely cost you more than just paying Wyndham and moving on (using or selling GC). Most of us have been lied to by timeshare salesmen, costing many of us far more than what you owe, but that doesn't much matter because it is difficult to prove and the contracts we sign cover all the bases to protect Wyndham.  Good luck!


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## brigian (Apr 17, 2015)

Although you were scammed by sales weasels don't throw good money after bad.

Being a business man I would have to agree with wyndham cutting your membership privileges. To put it in simple everyday life terms (as you have), suppose you buy a costco membership for $50 and purchase TV for a $1000, you write them a check that is NSF. You go back a week later and want to buy a table for $500 and have the cash in your hand. Do you think they will sell you the table for $500 even though you have cash before clearing up the $1000 nsf payment ? Lets take it one step further and pretend your wife is joint on the account but has her own card, do you think they will sell your wife the table knowing that THAT account owes $1000 for NSF check ?

The answer is no and I wouldn't do it either. This is just a simple thread with a bunch of nobody's blowing hot air ( myself included ), imagine how a billion dollar company and their lawyers cover themselves.

People get scammed for millions from stock markets, financial advisors, lawyers, con artists, real estate agents, mortgage brokers etc etc etc. Pay your $7000 and enjoy what you have, you'll be much better off.

Sorry for my honesty.


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## DeniseM (Apr 17, 2015)

You have zero chance of winning a lawsuit.  It will cost you thousands to pursue this, and you will lose anyway.  Apply the funds to your timeshare, pay it off, and enjoy your timeshare.


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## Pathways (Apr 17, 2015)

tkokid said:


> Sounds Like a lawyer and a class action lawsuit it is.



Wow! Do you realize how long the line is for this?




tkokid said:


> Class action will be based on the fact that Wyndham can't dictate how payments are applied to an account.



Of course they can. I am not aware of ANY business that can't direct any and all payments received to the oldest balance due. Standard and accepted practice. 

Your only recourse (although it's abundantly clear you have no interest in doing this) in to transfer the deed for the Cypress Palms out of your name so that the accounts are then separate. First, you must make the complete account current. You could then stiff the GC account, but that still will not gain you anything. 

This was a real estate transaction which must be in writing, and ONLY what is in writing is valid.  Hold your breath, jump up and down, threaten all you want, it will change none of the material facts.  Had this issue been caught early Wyndham may have wiggled a bit. Reality is they have every phone call you have made documented, and starred**, and the decision has probably been made that this one is 'going to the mat'

However, I wish you 'Good Luck', all of us hope you WIN!


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## comicbookman (Apr 17, 2015)

tkokid said:


> Class action will be based on the fact that Wyndham can't dictate how payments are applied to an account. That would be like me going to a grocery store, putting two loaves of bread in the shopping cart then deciding at the checkout, that I only want one. Then the store, AFTER taking my money, says that if I don't pay for both, then I can't have either and keeps me from the benefits of the one I have paid for.
> 
> I can use that same analogy with real estate properties.
> 
> It's like Wyndham is saying that since they own both mortgages (and this is a property mortgage), they can decide on which property my payment goes to. I compare it to owning your primary residence and a rental property. Lets say you are current on your primary residence mortgage payment but you are in default on your rental property. The bank can not make you move out of your primary residence and repo both properties because you are in default of the rental property mortgage. They can put a lean on the primary but they can't keep you from living there, repossess it, or keep you from enjoying the benefits of that primary residence. It's not lawful to do so and that is EXACTLY what Wyndham is trying to do...



Actually, you have already agreed to pay maint fees on both properties.  You also have already agreed to making a combined payment, which Wyndham then applies to both. (something you have been doing for 5 years).  Wyndham is under no legal obligation to change the way the apply your payments at this late date.  Additionally, I am pretty sure that Wyndham's terms of service state that an account can be suspended if maintenance is behind on any contract in that account.  Even if they allocate your payment as you request, you would still be behind on Maint. on one contract, and your account would still get suspended.  The mortgage is a separate obligation, subject to normal real estate and contract law.


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## uscav8r (Apr 17, 2015)

tkokid said:


> Thanks Linda,
> Sounds Like a lawyer and a class action lawsuit it is.
> ...I think I'll sue so this doesn't happen to anyone else.  Thanks for the push. I appreciate it.
> 
> ...


While it is within your right to initiate a class action lawsuit, consider that there are many on TUG (and outside TUG) who have attempted to go down this path with a variety of developers (not just Wyndham) and have had extremely little success. 

So then the question becomes, how much will attorney's fees be, and how does that compare to paying off a $7k loan? Factor in the extremely low chance of success, and you may quickly find yourself on the hook for $7k in back maintenance fees PLUS your attorney's fees. Also consider that you may be opening yourself up to potential scam by a lawyer promising you the world but simply taking your retainer and ultimately delivering nothing.

None of the experts on here work for Wyndham. But many are providing practical advice based on experience and observations of similar situations.


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## wed100105 (Apr 17, 2015)

This has been an interesting thread! I am still in awe that you found a salesperson at Bonnet Creek that was honest with you! :hysterical::hysterical: Good luck with whatever it is you decide. I'm sure many of us know the pain of being lied to our faces when it comes to our timeshares.


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## am1 (Apr 17, 2015)

Remember your elected officials allow all of this.  

If you want to pursue your best bet is small claims court as the costs are minimal.  Its possible the contract states you bound to other means to resolve the issue. 

Like others have stated paying for 5 years or so hurt your case.


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## ace2000 (Apr 17, 2015)

Pathways said:


> Your only recourse (although it's abundantly clear you have no interest in doing this) in to transfer the deed for the Cypress Palms out of your name so that the accounts are then separate. First, you must make the complete account current.



Actually this might be something to consider.  Transfer to spouse or one of your children perhaps, and then add your name later?


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## am1 (Apr 17, 2015)

ace2000 said:


> Actually this might be something to consider.  Transfer to spouse or one of your children perhaps, and then add your name later?



Get the fees up to date first.


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## vacationhopeful (Apr 17, 2015)

Okay .. IMHO good advice given to OP. He decided on his course of action MONTHS ago when he stopped paying on his legal obligations - his loan and his member number's maintenance fees. 

IMHO, he is tilting at windmills with a wooden shaft while riding a horse and dressed in an iron suit. BUT, the OP apparently has far superior intellect than us, lots of legal experience and wealth we all can only dream about. He wants to right the wrongs of the timeshare world. GO FOR IT .... stranger things have happen and I am sure, OP will update us all when he proves us WRONG and he is RIGHT.

Meanwhile, I am just going to continue on with my pitiful & petty small little life - enjoying a vacation stay every month or two at a Wyndham resort (NYC in May and Jul 4th Skyline Tower) ... booking my winter Snowbird vacations in Pompano for 2016, etc.


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## WinniWoman (Apr 17, 2015)

vacationhopeful said:


> Okay .. IMHO good advice given to OP. He decided on his course of action MONTHS ago when he stopped paying on his legal obligations - his loan and his member number's maintenance fees.
> 
> IMHO, he is tilting at windmills with a wooden shaft while riding a horse and dressed in an iron suit. BUT, the OP apparently has far superior intellect than us, lots of legal experience and wealth we all can only dream about. He wants to right the wrongs of the timeshare world. GO FOR IT .... stranger things have happen and I am sure, OP will update us all when he proves us WRONG and he is RIGHT.
> 
> Meanwhile, I am just going to continue on with my pitiful & petty small little life - enjoying a vacation stay every month or two at a Wyndham resort (NYC in May and Jul 4th Skyline Tower) ... booking my winter Snowbird vacations in Pompano for 2016, etc.


\


Excellent. Linda! Enjoy it all! All those pathetic little excursions! LOL!:hysterical:


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## Bigrob (Apr 17, 2015)

One only has to watch a few of the many "Wyndham scammed us" videos on youtube to see this is probably more the rule than the exception, unfortunately, when it comes to "over-selling" the benefits you get when you buy.

Fundamentally, the OP has the following complaints:

1. A salesman told him that the purchase of the contract would combine with the resale to produce a VIP account... rather than having it written into the contract, it was provided (as is almost always the case) through bonus points, not through "washing" the resale contract status to reset at developer.

There is extensive evidence that any legal action on this will be non-productive and just result in legal expenses.

2. Since the assumed benefits of purchase are not being extended or provided, OP wants to sever the two contracts and treat them as separate entities.

As others have said, it is possible to separate/move contracts from one member number to another - *if they are current.*It may be less expensive to get current, move the CP to a new member account, then follow through with your disposition strategy.

If a certain attorney has been reading the boards lately, he has probably already reached out to you. Your thread is probably providing additional fodder for several lawsuits he's pursuing against Wyndham (although he is typically representing "Mega Renters" who bought millions and millions of points and then had rules changed on them after the fact). Nonetheless, I just have to urge you caution here - unfortunately there are attorneys who are almost as bad as timeshares sales weasels - more than happy to take up your "case"... I had one give me an interpretation that "this is absolutely actionable, you can get treble damages, etc." and wanted to get started immediately with a demand letter... uhm, let's just take care of this retainer first... had another attorney look at it and he quickly poked all the holes in it and said, "sure, I could go after this, but it will not be productive and here's why."

It felt good to hear the first attorney tell me I had a clear case, treble damages, and so forth... but I was very grateful to have an honest attorney give me the true scenario and spare me wasted time and money.

Good luck with whatever you decide. I think you have enough input from the community to assess the likelihood of success through a legal action.


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## tkokid (Apr 17, 2015)

vacationhopeful said:


> Okay .. IMHO good advice given to OP. He decided on his course of action MONTHS ago when he stopped paying on his legal obligations - his loan and his member number's maintenance fees.
> 
> IMHO, he is tilting at windmills with a wooden shaft while riding a horse and dressed in an iron suit. BUT, the OP apparently has far superior intellect than us, lots of legal experience and wealth we all can only dream about. He wants to right the wrongs of the timeshare world. GO FOR IT .... stranger things have happen and I am sure, OP will update us all when he proves us WRONG and he is RIGHT.
> 
> Meanwhile, I am just going to continue on with my pitiful & petty small little life - enjoying a vacation stay every month or two at a Wyndham resort (NYC in May and Jul 4th Skyline Tower) ... booking my winter Snowbird vacations in Pompano for 2016, etc.




I am confused Linda....  
Firstly, why have you chosen to bash me multiple times?
Secondly, What makes you think that I have stopped paying?  I never said I had stopped but I did say that I was going to stop.
Third, I have thanked SEVERAL people who have given good advice.  I have never claimed to have superior intellect or even suggested that. 

Your posts are nothing more than a bashing and demeaning effort to make me look bad for some reason and I don't appreciate it.  If you have nothing constructive to offer, then you got one thing right.  Take your Pitiful & petty small little life and go elsewhere.  I find it sad when someone has to try and make someone feel bad to make themselves feel better.... Wow...!!!


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## tkokid (Apr 17, 2015)

Bigrob said:


> One only has to watch a few of the many "Wyndham scammed us" videos on youtube to see this is probably more the rule than the exception, unfortunately, when it comes to "over-selling" the benefits you get when you buy.
> 
> Fundamentally, the OP has the following complaints:
> 
> ...



Thanks for the reply.  I have actually been contacted by SEVERAL attorneys and it didn't take me long to find out that none of them had my best interest at hand. The VO group is relentless...LOL.  Thanks for the warning though.  It's just mind boggling how the time share companies can continue to get away with this.  If nothing else, then this thread has maybe brought some of the people who have been wronged, together.


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## tkokid (Apr 17, 2015)

lhumes7 said:


> I don't know the answer, and you may have already done this, but probably the least expensive route to begin is to have a contracts lawyer check the contracts to ensure that what you signed didn't somehow give them a legal right to prevent you from using any of your Wyndham properties if you default on one.  Once again, I do not know, but having a professional check that first might be the best, and least expensive, way to start.
> 
> I do know that there are benefits to having the properties in one account - we get to combine our points from properties to make reservations, which is a good thing.  I guess that combination also comes with the bad.  I sincerely have no idea of any of the legalities, and am not trying to give you any kind of law lesson - I am not qualified!
> 
> I, too, am a fighter, but I have fought enough losing battles, however justified, to know that my own peace and health are best when I let it go and learn my lesson about the bad side of humanity.  I would start with a professional analysis of your contracts to see if this is a battle you have any hope of winning.  If you go full in on a lawsuit, you may end up just as aggravated and angry as you are now (if not more so), with less money in your pocket.



Well Put... Thanks for the reply....  I think I am going to take your advice and see if I signed something that says that they can combine the contracts the way they are...


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## tkokid (Apr 17, 2015)

Ron2 said:


> Having read this entire thread, it appears that your primary complaint is that Wyndham will not let you separate your 2 contracts so you can stop payments on the Glacier Canyon contract (MF and loan). Since you have paid for and likely used the points from the GC contract for 5 years makes it very unlikely that you could prove that Wyndham is not providing what you signed up for.  The fact that your two contracts were combined gave you a lower annual fee because the CG contract standing alone would have been charged the minimum Program Fee and not the 55-cents per 1000 points, so you have benefited by combining the contracts. If I correctly understand one of your previous posts, you still only owe $7000 on the GC contract plus the MF that you refuse to pay. To hire a lawyer to fight this would likely cost you more than just paying Wyndham and moving on (using or selling GC). Most of us have been lied to by timeshare salesmen, costing many of us far more than what you owe, but that doesn't much matter because it is difficult to prove and the contracts we sign cover all the bases to protect Wyndham.  Good luck!



I owe about 7K on the loan.  Maintenance fees are currently, Current.  Even the loan is currently current.  It's just eats at me every time I write a check that they can keep doing this to us.  It finally came to a head and I wrote this thread with an idea... I think I have my answers but I am still looking for a way out of a contract that I was bamboozled into buying through deception.  It makes me sick...


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## comicbookman (Apr 17, 2015)

tkokid said:


> I am confused Linda....
> Firstly, why have you chosen to bash me multiple times?
> Secondly, What makes you think that I have stopped paying? I never said I had stopped but I did say that I was going to stop.
> Third, I have thanked SEVERAL people who have given good advice. I have never claimed to have superior intellect or even suggested that.
> ...



"At this point, we have even told Wyndham that we aren't going to make any more payments on the Glacier Canyon contract."  This is why Linda, I and others  thought you had stopped paying.


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## tkokid (Apr 17, 2015)

Sorry for the delayed responses and multiple posts to everyone all at the same time.  I have been Crappie fishing all day.  It's tough being basically retired....


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## tkokid (Apr 17, 2015)

comicbookman said:


> "At this point, we have even told Wyndham that we aren't going to make any more payments on the Glacier Canyon contract."  This is why Linda, I and others  thought you had stopped paying.



Ah... I guess I understand that... I told them that yesterday right before I wrote the thread. I hung up with them mad and frustrated and hence, this thread started .... sorry for the confusion


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## comicbookman (Apr 17, 2015)

tkokid said:


> Well Put... Thanks for the reply.... I think I am going to take your advice and see if I signed something that says that they can combine the contracts the way they are...



After 5 years, it no longer matters if you signed something that said they can combine the contracts as they have.  They did it and you went along with it for 5 years because it reduced the amount you had to pay in program fees. (whether you realized this or not)  No court is going to say that they have to stop now.  Plus this treatment is not unique to you, so you cannot claim that you are being singled out.


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## Bigrob (Apr 17, 2015)

tkokid said:


> I owe about 7K on the loan.  Maintenance fees are currently, Current.  Even the loan is currently current.  It's just eats at me every time I write a check that they can keep doing this to us.  It finally came to a head and I wrote this thread with an idea... I think I have my answers but I am still looking for a way out of a contract that I was bamboozled into buying through deception.  It makes me sick...



Since you ARE current, you CAN split the contracts into two member numbers. Ordinarily, this would not be an advantage to you, as it means you will pay more CWP's and have 2 separate maintenance fees to worry about (plus you won't be able to combine the points for reservations.) But if your intent is to somehow eliminate the GC contract and payment but keep the CP, it gets you a step closer.

I would say, though, you want to begin with the end in mind. Don't split them unless you are taking a definitive action with the GC contract as soon as possible afterward.


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## ronparise (Apr 17, 2015)

tkokid said:


> Well Put... Thanks for the reply....  I think I am going to take your advice and see if I signed something that says that they can combine the contracts the way they are...



No ..You need to find something that says they cant combine the contracts...and you wont

One of the most powerful  tools a salesman has at his disposal is his customers greed.  Looks like it worked here, You wanted VIP without paying the price, and the salesman gave it to you

You have made it clear that its not the money that is the issue, Its the humiliation of falling for a salesman's lies.  The reason you dont get much sympathy here is that most of us have had the same thing happen

The best advice we have is to learn how to use the product and enjoy your vacations.


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## CO skier (Apr 18, 2015)

tkokid said:


> I owe about 7K on the loan.  Maintenance fees are currently, Current.  Even the loan is currently current.  It's just eats at me every time I write a check that they can keep doing this to us.  It finally came to a head and I wrote this thread with an idea... I think I have my answers but I am still looking for a way out of a contract that I was bamboozled into buying through deception.  It makes me sick...



Dividing the contracts to default on the Glacier Canyon loan is the only viable solution. Any consequences from the default plus the deed preparation and transfer costs would only increase your frustration.

You can take control of this situation by changing your perspective.  My developer purchase more than 20 years ago added a little less than $1000 to each of the dozen vacations my family and I enjoyed before giving the timeshare away to some knowledgeable friends for free.  Fully equipped kitchen for a young family, movie theater, fun playground and two large swimming pools made for some great memories.

I consider the purchase price as tuition.  The fun goes on.  What I learned from that first experience empowered me to find resale timeshares that are a better fit for our vacationing style - priceless.

When you write that monthly check, think of the great vacations it will provide your family and start planning the next one.


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## taterhed (Apr 18, 2015)

> I consider the purchase price as tuition. The fun goes on. What I learned from that first experience empowered me to find resale timeshares that are a better fit for our vacationing style - priceless.


 
Very smart words CO skier.  I agree 100%.


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## Tia (Apr 20, 2015)

If their lips are moving they are quite possibly lying is the rule of ts sales persons. Yes they all seem nice but ....

He who has the money makes the rules

It's a cut your loses /live and learn thing


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## Beaglemom3 (Apr 20, 2015)

tkokid said:


> We purchased a resale 300K property (Cypress Palms) about 5 years ago.  There was a problem with the transfer and it didn't go through in a timely manner.  Ultimately, it did go through but here is the problem.
> 
> During the process of the transfer, we were on a discovery package and took our final vacation (with that package) at the Wisconsin Dells Glacier Canyon.  It was there that we met Trent Nelson.  To make a long story short, Trent is the most dishonest lying SOB I have EVER met.
> 
> ...



If you feel that fraud is involved, tell their legal dept. that you won't be going to hell, but you are going to Pam Bondi, the Attorney General of Florida, with your complaint and then do it. 

http://myfloridalegal.com/__85256CC...104?Open&Highlight=0,timeshare,file,complaint

Call them first.

Good luck.


-


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## djohn75087 (Apr 20, 2015)

*Anyone new to Wyndham beware!!!*

I have a few friends who also own Wyndham and I always tell them to never go to a Wyndham owner update unless they are 150% satisfied with the membership that they currently own and are not willing to risk a great thing by making *any* changes. When I go to an owner update and they offer me the moon I tell them "I already have the moon." I paid a few hundred bucks for this membership and I'm getting a great rate per night to stay in spacious condos. I would never risk my happiness with Wyndham by making changes! Wyndham sales feeds off people who want a better deal and if you want more they will figure out what you want and offer you exactly that! Of course we all know that they rarely come through with what they offer. The OP is in a bad spot because he is a single person fighting a big corporation. I just hope others will read this and understand how Wyndham convinces people who already have a membership to hand over thousands of dollars for something they didn't even want! They simply promise "We can make it even better". No matter what they tell you please understand that it will not be better just more expensive.


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## wakelawyer (Apr 21, 2015)

This is not legal advice but the concept of cross-collateralization is a common concept.  You should check the contracts and underlying timeshare documents but I would imagine that Wyndham has provided a mechanism to prevent the sale or continued use of one timeshare if you default on another.  

Banks do this all the time with mortgages and credit cards.  For instance, many credit cards will provide that a default on one is a default on the other (and in many instances a default on another bank's credit card can be an event of default).  In addition, if you default on a bank's credit card and you maintain a separate bank account with them, many agreements permit the bank to access the funds in the bank account.

While it may not seem fair, it's the contractual situation into which you entered.


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## ronparise (Apr 21, 2015)

wakelawyer said:


> This is not legal advice but the concept of cross-collateralization is a common concept.  You should check the contracts and underlying timeshare documents but I would imagine that Wyndham has provided a mechanism to prevent the sale or continued use of one timeshare if you default on another.
> 
> Banks do this all the time with mortgages and credit cards.  For instance, many credit cards will provide that a default on one is a default on the other (and in many instances a default on another bank's credit card can be an event of default).  In addition, if you default on a bank's credit card and you maintain a separate bank account with them, many agreements permit the bank to access the funds in the bank account.
> 
> While it may not seem fair, it's the contractual situation into which you entered.




Exactly right

I have several wyndham accounts and several more Worldmark. Wyndham has one finance dept to handle the whole mess

As I posted above Ive been late on the wyndham side with my mf and they refuse to process a worldmark transaction

If the op is going to try to pull a fast one on Wyndham, be aware that they are pretty fast themselves. .


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## CruiseGuy (Apr 21, 2015)

ronparise said:


> Exactly right
> 
> I have several wyndham accounts and several more Worldmark. Wyndham has one finance dept to handle the whole mess
> 
> ...



They probably already know who the OP is and have his file noted.  

Most large businesses monitor the internet, and especially forums and social media sites.  Even with usernames that are not real names, it's not difficult for businesses to figure out who you are. With their customer database, all it usually takes is a couple facts about the poster and a business can often reliably identify who the poster is and either flag or put a notation on the person's file.


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## feistymama (May 2, 2015)

djohn75087 said:


> I have a few friends who also own Wyndham and I always tell them to never go to a Wyndham owner update unless they are 150% satisfied with the membership that they currently own and are not willing to risk a great thing by making *any* changes. When I go to an owner update and they offer me the moon I tell them "I already have the moon." I paid a few hundred bucks for this membership and I'm getting a great rate per night to stay in spacious condos. I would never risk my happiness with Wyndham by making changes! Wyndham sales feeds off people who want a better deal and if you want more they will figure out what you want and offer you exactly that! Of course we all know that they rarely come through with what they offer. The OP is in a bad spot because he is a single person fighting a big corporation. I just hope others will read this and understand how Wyndham convinces people who already have a membership to hand over thousands of dollars for something they didn't even want! They simply promise "We can make it even better". No matter what they tell you please understand that it will not be better just more expensive.



Coming into this late, but just wanted to say as an add-on to this excellent advice - I have been a Wyndham owner since 2008 and I have never, ever, not once, been to an "owner update" or any other type of presentation at any resort where I have ever stayed. Someone else mentioned "have your wife go get the hangtag" - I am the wife; I send my husband to get the hangtag because after a few times I realized that there was no way for me to get our tag without me being curt with the salespeople at the tag desk and raising my blood pressure for no good reason, right at the start of our vacation.

There is honestly no reason, ever, to go to an owner update unless you want to waste your time, IMO. The "free stuff" they offer - please. A free dream book? $150 in restaurant credits? Free stays at other resorts? I am a management consultant and I bill out my time to my clients at $150-$200 an hour; my husband is an IT consultant and he bills his clients $250 an hour. So, combined our time is worth $450 an hour at the top end. When we go on vacation, that's what we're foregoing, per hour, to get away from work and enjoy ourselves. We'd have to get something pretty danged good out of an owner update to make sitting through a high-pressure sales presentation worthwhile. So far, I haven't yet been made an offer by a sales weasel that I thought was worth it. I'm not worried about getting tempted into buying - I can do math, and know I can get whatever I need or want off the resale market at pennies on the dollar compared to whatever Wyndham is offering. But I hate incompetent/lying sales people, and I hate wasting time. All going to a presentation will do is put some extra grinding mileage on my back molars, and my dentist tells me they aren't in such great shape as it is.

I am happy with our level of points ownership. The amount of my monthly MF is very manageable for us financially. I actually feel like I get something good and worthwhile out of my Wyndham ownership, exactly as it is right now. So as the poster above says - why would I want to change anything? Why would I want to sit through a presentation where someone is exhorting me to change things? I'm not interested. And on vacation, I have many, many other things I can do with my time, besides listen to a sales weasel make empty promises.

I can say after about 2012 we no longer even get phone calls or "drop by" visits from salespeople trying to pressure us to attend a presentation, even at Grand Desert where there is a heavy sales presence. The last time I was at Grand Desert and they tried to pressure us into a presentation, I started talking loudly about how much we paid for our points on eBay and they hustled us away from the hangtag desk pretty fast to get me to shut up. I think they do keep information on people and once you snap even one time at the carrot they dangle - they know you're a potential mark, and they treat you as such. 

I am sorry for the OP's plight, but I agree, he is tilting at windmills. If writing the check every month is so hard, I think - as others have said - the best thing he can do is pay off the timeshare that's sticking in his craw and divest himself of it. And then he can make this solemn vow: As God is my witness, I will never, ever attend another Owner Update again.


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## Jan M. (May 17, 2015)

*Buyer's Remorse*

At sales presentations a lot of information gets thrown at you and unless you are a veteran of them you are unlikely to absorb all or even most of it. We started out with a small point purchase with Fairfield and worked our way up to Platinum/Presidential Reserve over the years. Obviously we have attended numerous sales presentations and updates. Bonus points only temporarily elevate you to VIP status and that was made very clear to us at every sale. The whole point of giving you bonus points is to get you to a VIP level and for you to experience the benefits of that level so you will want to buy more points to reach that VIP level permanently. And that is exactly how it was always presented! Every time we purchased a sales manager would come in and go over things. If we didn't buy, then another person would come in and go over things again trying to get us to buy a Discovery Package. When the contracts were being signed the financial services/contract person would go over everything very thoroughly. Even with all of that there can still be some mistakes made or misunderstandings. We have had some fantastic Wyndham sales people but there are also some very unethical ones and I can certainly sympathize. About a year or so ago we had an extremely bad experience with two women, a top sales person and a sales manger who "swore on her children and grandchildren's lives". It is a wonder that lightning didn't strike her dead on the spot! Maybe you can work something out with Owner Relations because sorry but I don't see how you are going to truly win on this against Wyndham if you decide to sue. The reason being is that from what I have heard, Wyndham typically settles lawsuits by taking back all of your ownership, barring you from owning for a period of years in the future, and after the lawyer gets his cut you still get less than what you spent. Basically you are giving up some of the money you spent just to sever your relationship with Wyndham and get out of finishing paying for what you bought. It seems more like this just sticks in your craw than that you are in danger of not being able to make the payments. Unless that is the case then you have two choices. Cut off your nose to spite your face and sell what you purchased directly from Wyndham at a huge 80-90% loss or make lemonade and keep it and use it. Seriously, ask yourself does anyone go through life and never make a financial decision that they regretted? Quit kicking yourself and move on. Glacier Canyon is a very desirable property and has great year round rental potential.


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## JimGrant (May 21, 2015)

Wyndham is famous for this trick. You need to get tough with them and send a letter stating how Trent lied to you and tell them to separate the contracts or you will go to the States Attorney Generals, the Real Estate Commission, FTC and the media. Also tell them you will file a lawsuit against their Error and Omissions Insurance policy. Bully them into releasing you


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## bogey21 (May 21, 2015)

CO skier said:


> I consider the purchase price as tuition.



I agree with this concept.  There is nothing like having your money at risk to focus your attention.  If later you decide you have made a mistake, immediately focus on an exit strategy.  

George


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## WinniWoman (May 22, 2015)

I own at a Wyndham resort but am not a Wyndham owner and I have never gone on an update. I only make $20 per hour and even for me- they would have to give me a couple of thousand dollars to attend a meeting. I might be a low paid peasant but my vacation time is worth thousands to me!


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## WinniWoman (May 22, 2015)

And- I agree with the above posts- if you can afford the payments- just use the darn thing- stop over analyzing it! Enjoy it! I paid full freight for our timeshare from the developer and owned it for 16+ years and it all worked out in the math.No regrets and we love it and go every year. We just acquired a free unit elsewhere as well and intend on going there as well every year. 

If it makes you miserable just try it get rid of it. End of story,


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## ronparise (May 22, 2015)

mpumilia said:


> And- I agree with the above posts- if you can afford the payments- just use the darn thing- stop over analyzing it! Enjoy it! I paid full freight for our timeshare from the developer and owned it for 16+ years and it all worked out in the math.No regrets and we love it and go every year. We just acquired a free unit elsewhere as well and intend on going there as well every year.
> 
> If it makes you miserable just try it get rid of it. End of story,



And by picking up a second unit for free, you reduced your average cost by 50%. 

Walking away from his purchase isnt the only answer for the op, He could, like you and so many others here, learn to use it, and add to it, increasing his number of vacations, while reducing his average cost per vacation


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## pagosajim (May 22, 2015)

mpumilia said:


> I own at a Wyndham resort but am not a Wyndham owner



Huhhh?????


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## scootr5 (May 22, 2015)

pagosajim said:


> Huhhh?????


IIRC, she owns at Smugglers Notch which is now a Wyndham managed resort, but she's a legacy owner of a non-Wyn week.


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