# Best Wyndham TS's for the lowest total cost of ownership



## sfx (May 11, 2013)

I have an opportunity to buy a Wyndham points TS with a MF per 1K point of about $3.90.  Is this about as low as it gets on Wyndham contracts these days?  The second best I've seen recently is National Harbor at $4 on eBay.  Most other low MF's seem to come in at $4.50-$5.

The acquisition cost of this TS is about twice the annual MF.  This seems expensive to me despite the low MF's.  When I run the amortized total cost of ownership (acquisition + estimated MF costs) over 20 years, National Harbor is better.  In fact, National Harbor seems to be carry the lowest total cost over ownership pretty much across the board for any period between 5-25 future years based on recent eBay sales.

Of course, a huge assumption is that the relative growth of National Harbor's future MF's will be on par with others.  The property is new and probably hasn't had expensive maintenance costs, so the MF's will likely go up.  But it doesn't seem likely that it would exceed the other low MF's properties to the point where it becomes expensive.

I would like a frame of reference.  For the few of you who have been buying low maintenance Wyndham TS's on the "points are points" premise, could you provide some numbers on the best contracts and the locations that you have successfully transacted recently?  I assume eBay isn't the primary source for these contracts.  While I am unlikely to get those kinds of numbers, it would help me to gauge the point of "good enough."

Thank you.


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## coachb (May 11, 2013)

I have the exact same question myself. Also, is the "points are points" premise an accurate one?


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## vacationhopeful (May 11, 2013)

Let me see -- are points interchangable?
Yes, that is the premise of what a points system is.   At the 10 month mark (check in day), all CWP, CWA, pooled, converted fixed weeks are a common points. Now to the exception, cancelled points have a usage shelf life - I believe 90 days. Today is May 11, 2013; reservations started at 7AM for March 11, 2014 - so you can reserve a 4 night stay in Prime season with checkout on Sat March 15, 2014 or a 3 night stay in Prime season with checkout on Fri March 14, 2014 - unless there is a 7  night stay required.

History of low MFs. Any being project in ACTIVE SALES has some degree of subsized developer dollar to keep the MFs lower. Wait, or is that to keep their payments LOWER for them to pay to the HOA. Wait, or is it is a new resort and needs no (less) maintinence? At some point, MFs go up to a more normal rate on those new resorts and it seems to be WHEN the developer has sold a bigger portion of the resort's points.

Personally, you should be looking at resorts which are NOT in sales - which have maintained a very low cost of ownership for the owners. As for some magical buying* ratio *of purchase cost to MFs - that is simply prepaying MFs to someone who developed an ad with a hook for the newbie.

DISCLOUSURE: I tend to buy for ARP usage. But I do have a deed or 2 for lower MFs - and another reason or two.


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## ronparise (May 11, 2013)

I take the position that points are points. The lower mf resorts are lower because of points inflation not developer subsidy or because they are new and require little maintenance...The new properties still require fully funded reserve accounts. And although the developer does feed the HOA during the sales period, this is I believe to account for the unsold units, (they have to be maintained too) not to make sales easier

We need to distinguish between actual maintenance fee dollars collected, and the maintenance fee rate

If you take a closer look you will see that the lower rates are at the resorts that have the higher points requirements.

The fact is that although the maintenance fee rate is less at these newer resorts. The actual maintenance fee dollars collected per unit is greater. The rate (dollars per 1000 points) is less because the points requirement to stay there is more.

Heres a question for you:

The maintenance fee rate at National Harbor is $4/1000 points 
I own a week at Fairfield Harbor, where the Maintenance fee rate is $8/1000 points.....Which resort is more expensive to maintain?

The answer is National Harbor .

A two bedroom at National Harbor in prime season costs 275000 points..at $4/1000 points thats $1100

Maintenance fees for a  two bedroom at Fairfield Harbor (including the program fee) is $834

So which is the most expensive to maintain?...its National Harbor


The maintenance fee per 1000 points  at National Harbor is cheaper than most, because the points requirement is higher than most.   It has nothing to do with developer subsidies.

I think fees at National Harbor would be even higher except that this place is an urban property, there are no grounds to maintain,and no free parking lots. Also a portion of the building is a commercial rental, providing some income to the HOA 


Bottom line  Maintenance Fees are not lower at National Harbor..they are in fact higher than most. The rate is lower, because points are higher


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## sfx (May 12, 2013)

Thanks for clarifying the difference between actual MF dollars and the MF per point rate.  I thought my post was clear that I am looking at MF per 1K point rate, but some of my statements do seem ambiguous.

National Habor may have a higher MF dollar cost and point redemption cost, but they have one of the lowest MF per point rate today.  If I wanted to stay at National Habor and can reserve in advance to secure the dates I need, then the source of my points shouldn't matter.  Similarly, I can buy into National Harbor at its low MF rate, then always spend the points at other properties for lesser cost than buying into those other properties at higher MF rates.  I can only think of one reason to buy into a higher MF rate property - if it is so high demand that ARP is needed to get the dates I want all or most of the time.

The risk in buying into the lowest MF per point rate today is that the rate can increase more than its peers in the future such that it becomes an average or a high MF per rate time share.  But this depends on how much the rate increases and when that occurs.  The longer that the rate remains in the lowest tier, the more likely that substantial hike in the rate would not change the cumulative rate over the life of ownership - it has to go through the accumulated MF savings.

To me, buying into National Harbor seem to be a no-brainer because it is one of the lowest, if not the lowest, MF rate I can find.  The problem is the acquisition cost.  Are there others I should be looking at?

Also, the "magical ratio of purchase cost to MF" is not some advertisement sleight of hand.  The acquisition cost impacts the cumulative cost of ownership, so it impacts the cumulative MF rate.  If I pay 2x MF to acquire National Harbor, then the effective MF rate over 20 years is 10% higher.  I would be better off buying into a $1 resale for a property with a MF rate that is 10% higher than National until at least the 20th year.

The information that I'm missing is just how low these MF rates go and the associated acquisition costs.  eBay is the only source with completed listings, but there are other markets without any visibility.  I see occasional posts of TUG members acquiring superb deals, and I was hoping for some more insight.  Then I can make a decision whether some of these eBay deals are really great deals or just moderately so.


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## vacationhopeful (May 13, 2013)

sfx said:


> ... eBay is the only source with completed listings, but there are other markets without any visibility.  I see occasional posts of TUG members acquiring superb deals, and I was hoping for some more insight.  Then I can make a decision whether some of these eBay deals are really great deals or just moderately so.



Having registered for TUG just 6 days ago, you are definitely a newbie. I help with answers, but am not a purchasing agent. Normally, we recommend 6 months of LEARNING and several (rental) trips before buying ANYTHING - as many of your questions this week would be no-brainers to even YOU by then.

Why renting? You will see the "favor" of some of the resorts near you and whether you even like the timeshare way of like. I spent last night picking OVER my assortment of FIXED WEEKS for Snowbird season. Mostly, I have had them for 4-5 years; 3 different resorts (2 Wyndhams), different views, meshing of checkin days, and my 'HOW bored do I get' comfort level. It sort of surprised me - view does matter to me, if I am staying 8 weeks. Not moving resorts every week is not a bad idea. One resort has OCEAN front views (not on the beach, but hi-rise very close) while another has great units filled with light when on a cornor. One resort has in unit washer/dryer but I found I really NEEDED sun. One resort has 4 pools but another has a solid fence keeping the wind away better. One has a great TIKI bar - then I remember, I HATE paying so much $$ for a beer everyday. One has lots of FOOD within walking distance - but 8 weeks there would have me bored.

So if price is the ONLY consideration - look ONLY for that then. But a vacation to me is many other things and after you buy into a timeshare system, it is harder to plan (and more expensive) to plan ALL your vacations by exchanging.


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## vacationhopeful (May 13, 2013)

And my choices of BEST TIMESHAREs are ones that met MY standard. South Florida within beach block and warm in the winter on the Atlantic side with a BIG airport to my home city served by 2 or more discount airlines. And if I am not driving, I don't HAVE TO HAVE rent a car (added expense).


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## staceyeileen (May 13, 2013)

sfx said:


> I would like a frame of reference.  For the few of you who have been buying low maintenance Wyndham TS's on the "points are points" premise, could you provide some numbers on the best contracts and the locations that you have successfully transacted recently?



I will answer your question directly, since I've acquired 2 contracts over the past year where low MF was my chief concern.  I have no need for ARP and in fact will probably never even visit Bali Hai.  I do understand when people say "buy where you want to vacation" but that really doesn't apply to everyone.  Maybe it's because I live in northern FL and have so many nice Wyn resorts within a day's drive that I'm really not concerned AT ALL about buying where I want to vacation.

July 2012 - Wyndham Smoky Mountains 168k EOY Even.  $699 purchase price including transfer fee, no closing costs, and all 2012 points free.

November 2012 - Wyndham Bali Hai 168K EOY Odd.  $460 purchase price including transfer fee, no closing costs.


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## Ridewithme38 (May 13, 2013)

Why would you pay more then $1?  If you are patient and dilegent with your searches you can find 95% of Wyndham resorts for $1


I don't know if this link will work unless you a member of that forum....But it a good reference for MF's from 1994-2012...so you can get a good idea not just of the current MF's, but also of how they have raised over time...
http://forums.atozed.com/download/file.php?id=2978


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## ronparise (May 13, 2013)

sfx said:


> Thanks for clarifying the difference between actual MF dollars and the MF per point rate.  I thought my post was clear that I am looking at MF per 1K point rate, but some of my statements do seem ambiguous.
> 
> National Habor may have a higher MF dollar cost and point redemption cost, but they have one of the lowest MF per point rate today.  If I wanted to stay at National Habor and can reserve in advance to secure the dates I need, then the source of my points shouldn't matter.  Similarly, I can buy into National Harbor at its low MF rate, then always spend the points at other properties for lesser cost than buying into those other properties at higher MF rates.  I can only think of one reason to buy into a higher MF rate property - if it is so high demand that ARP is needed to get the dates I want all or most of the time.
> 
> ...



I understand that you want the lowest rate....but there are many here that will suggest that thats a risky game to play because the resorts with the lower rates are still in sales and Wyndham is still subsidizing them.   Linda alluded to that argument in her post ....and/or these resorts are cheating on their reserve accounts (ie not puting enough in reserve to keep annual fees down)

I think that thats wrong headed thinking, for the reasons I outlined in my post.  I think you are right to go for the cheapest mf rate.

But I dont think you should put so much emphasis on the purchase price. I know an accountant will want to amortize the purchase price and consider it a part of your annual costs. but I think you risk losing too many good deals that way... I consider the purchase costs as sunk costs. They are a one time cost. If I have the money and I want the deal bad enough I spend it. That I might have overpaid a little, I forget as soon as that first (low) mf bill arrives....mf is forever.

Regarding possible future increases, I dont think thats predictable, so I dont consider it. except to say, I dont think the rate of increase will differ a significant amount, one resort to another.

So I too think National Harbor and Canterbury and Smokey Mountain and Tahoe and Bali Hai are no brainers.  and I dont think you have missed anything in your analysis.. Just know you are  likely to be bidding against me for the larger contracts.  Ive recently been on a buying binge, (I need inventory for my rentals)  Now I want to get more selective regarding Maintenance fees...I want to get my average mf down a little. Im even thinking about buying some weeks and paying Wyndham to convert them

Also;  If you are going to consider purchase price and amortize it over a number of years, you should also consider salvage price....ie whats this thing going to be worth at the end of the number of years you use in your calculation.. My guess is that the lower rate contracts will probably always be easy to sell...you might even make a profit.

FYI   I just agreed to buy a 749000 point Smokey Mountain contract on ebay.    If I run the numbers its not a great deal  (there are no 2013 points, and I will have to pay about 5 months mf in 2013.)  This was a buy it now listing on ebay. I called the seller and negotiated a better deal than he offered on ebay..Im all in at  $4 per 1000 points, including the purchase price,  closing costs, transfer fee and the 2013 maintenance fees yet to be paid.  Although some might argue that I paid too much,  Im happy with my deal...and thats all that really counts


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## ronparise (May 13, 2013)

Ridewithme38 said:


> Why would you pay more then $1?  If you are patient and dilegent with your searches you can find 95% of Wyndham resorts for $1
> 
> 
> I don't know if this link will work unless you a member of that forum....But it a good reference for MF's from 1994-2012...so you can get a good idea not just of the current MF's, but also of how they have raised over time...
> http://forums.atozed.com/download/file.php?id=2978



You said:  "you can find 95% of Wyndham resorts for $1"

First of all I dont think thats true anymore.. When I wasnt looking the price for Wyndham points went up

but in any case;   Its the 5% we are talking about

One would pay more than a dollar for a Wyndham, contract because that's what it takes


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## sfx (May 13, 2013)

vacationhopeful said:


> Having registered for TUG just 6 days ago, you are definitely a newbie.


Perhaps so.  I am a seasoned traveler with first exposure to a time share in Incline Village about 20 years ago.  I dismissed the concept entirely after reviewing the financials, and I did not look into resale until recently.  If my questions are "no-brainers" then I am here to become informed.  But do note that I am asking a specific question of using the MF rate as a measure to get a financially good deal, not a general question about finding a first, affordable time share.  Based on the times, locations, units and point costs of specific Wyndham properties I would want to use, I will conservatively need 1.5M points each year.  At this level, a difference of $1 in the MF rate between 2 properties is $1,500 a year or tens of thousands over the lifetime of ownership.  This is why I am paying attention to the MF rate.  Of course, as a newbie I do plan to acquire a smaller contract first, probably in the 200-300K range.

staceyeileen, thank you for your numbers.  Bali Hai and Smokey Mountains are on my list.  May I know the MF you are paying for those two?



Ridewithme38 said:


> Why would you pay more then $1?  If you are patient and dilegent with your searches you can find 95% of Wyndham resorts for $1


Every $1 listing I've seen have MF rates in excess of $5 per 1,000 points.  I think I can do better.  Thanks for the link to the MF list.  I had already used that to come up with my top 25 list.



ronparise said:


> But I dont think you should put so much emphasis on the purchase price. I know an accountant will want to amortize the purchase price and consider it a part of your annual costs. but I think you risk losing too many good deals that way... I consider the purchase costs as sunk costs. They are a one time cost.


It depends on how high that one time cost is.  Buying direct from the developer is also a one time cost, but clearly at greater than 10x annual MF, it is a bad financial deal.  I think the appropriate threshold is to see what the effective MF rate is for a $1 contract that goes unbid and use that as the ceiling.  It seems somewhere around 1x annual MF is the threshold, but it does depend on the location.  Your Smokey Mountain deal at $4 per 1,000 seems to meet this test.  Recent South Shore deals don't due to high resale.

Thanks for your responses.


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## pacodemountainside (May 13, 2013)

*Best Resort*

Based on other posts and my experience I don't think there is a single resort that is "bestest".

Too many variables like where does one want to stay, convenience, MF, ARP, adequacy of reserves , adequacy of insurance, amenities, local attractions,   etc.

Ron's theory of the case is very valid.

Likewise, if one is never going stay at National Harbor or LBM the $150 or so parking is moot, otherwise it must be added to MF to get true cost compared to resort with free parking.

As accountant, I believe upfront money has to be considered although once paid it is sunk. Time value of money is critical like if you win lottery and want cash up front vs 20 year payout. Or, on mortgage paying up front points to get lower interest rate.

Main Man in 10K clearly states Wyndham subsidizes MF at new resorts as people focus on as well as having to pay MF on unsold inventory under Federal Law.

The only way I know of to verify if reserves are adequate is to look at expert prepared "component replacement   worksheet" and see if there are dollars in the bank equal to current requirements. Obviously,    when brand new manufactures warranties apply and things generally don't need replacing for say 4-5 years so Developer  skimps.


Granted resorts have varying wear and tear factors but ball parking, if around 20% of MF is not going to cash reserve trouble is looming. Likewise if very high insurance deductibles trouble is lurking when hurricanes, floods, fires, etc. finally hit.

Keep in mind many potential purchasers are looking for absolute lowest MF which can be found in chart  Ride  mentioned and in auctions demand drives price up. Patience  and sniping are the watch words.


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## vacationhopeful (May 13, 2013)

sfx said:


> Perhaps so.  I am a seasoned traveler with first exposure to a time share in Incline Village about 20 years ago.  I dismissed the concept entirely after reviewing the financials, and I did not look into resale until recently



I went to my first timeshare presentation in 1976 - I decided to buy my own house instead.

My goal is not to make a bunch of yearly family vacations - my goal is to be a SNOWBIRD very near the beach for the months of Feb and Mar - the warmer part of South Florida. I took the time last night to review my vacation ownership. Mostly lockout units with some 1 bedroom and a single dedicated 2 bdr with a large covered balcony between 3 resorts. And just for giggles, some Royal Vista points for ARP - like Christmas and Easter extended family reunions. And some ARP points for Daytona Nascar weeks, Bike Week, and Biketoberfest (best tee shirts). Spring Break has me staying in Party Central place Ft Lauderdale Beach (a non Wyndham place).

So, I don't have $300K tied up in purchase money (or loans for the condo $12000) nor the MFs for the condo HOAs at $1200+/month ($14,400) or the $3000 year electric bill or the $2500 property insurance bill ... I can afford the MFs on some timeshares. 

And if I decide to go to Hawaii (or some other island for a week or two), I will rent my lovely timeshare while the onsite resort people clean the unit and check my guests in.

And while I got many of those particular timeshare weeks for $1, for some other TS weeks, I paid over $2000. But my 1,000,000 Royal Vista points was only $1000 - which at 203K per 2bdr, is less than 5 weeks staying there. Or 6.5 weeks in a 1bdr deluxe (7 weeks in a point saver 1bd unit).

PS My avatar picture is from the balcony of a unit at Royal Vista. There is a reason some MFs are a bit higher than others.


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## staceyeileen (May 13, 2013)

sfx said:


> staceyeileen, thank you for your numbers.  Bali Hai and Smokey Mountains are on my list.  May I know the MF you are paying for those two?



Wyndham Smoky Mountains
Contract Type: Undivided Interest - Even Year (UDI)
Points: 168,000
Total HOA Fee
Total HOA Fee for 1,000 Points: $4.19
Maintenance Fees: (84,000 / 1000) * $3.30 = $277.20 
Reserve Fund: (84,000 / 1000) * $0.78 = $65.52 
Property Tax: (84,000 / 1000) * $0.11 = $9.24 
Total HOA Fee: (84,000 / 1000) * $4.19 = $351.96 

Wyndham Bali Hai Villas
Contract Type: Undivided Interest - Odd Year (UDI)
Points: 168,000
Total HOA Fee
Total HOA Fee for 1,000 Points: $3.05
Maintenance Fees: (84,000 / 1000) * $2.43 = $204.12 
Reserve Fund: (84,000 / 1000) * $0.37 = $31.08 
Property Tax: (84,000 / 1000) * $0.13 = $10.92 
Local Tax: (84,000 / 1000) * $0.12 = $10.08 
Total HOA Fee: (84,000 / 1000) * $3.05 = $256.20


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## MFT (May 13, 2013)

SFX:  Good advise above is take your time.  I was impatient, jumped on a $1 sale, and am paying high MFs due to that mistake.  So take your time.

I agree that factoring in initial cost amortized over a set period (such as 20 years), and factored back in on top of your annual MFs to come up with the actual cost per K is important.  But I'm an old logistics guy, who factors in every aspect for profit and loss for transactions...  

The other thing is to figure out how many points you really will need and use.  I'm a small owner compared to most on here, and I still have a hard time burning up 266K a year because we tend to take shorter vacations and off season.  

And don't forget pooling points will allow you to use future points now if you need, or push them out for 3 years.


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## GregT (May 15, 2013)

staceyeileen said:


> Wyndham Smoky Mountains
> Contract Type: Undivided Interest - Even Year (UDI)
> Points: 168,000
> Total HOA Fee
> ...



That's very interesting to see that Bali Hai MFs are so low -- it's the first "low MF" Hawaii property I've seen!

I used to own a Smoky Mountains, purchased due to the low MFs and stable historical increases.   I gave it away last year (or two years ago?) because I was frustrated by the Program Fee, which was too high for only an occasional use.

Interesting to see this, and thanks for posting the information.

Best,

Greg


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## ronparise (May 15, 2013)

GregT said:


> That's very interesting to see that Bali Hai MFs are so low -- it's the first "low MF" Hawaii property I've seen!
> 
> I used to own a Smoky Mountains, purchased due to the low MFs and stable historical increases.   I gave it away last year (or two years ago?) because I was frustrated by the Program Fee, which was too high for only an occasional use.
> 
> ...



MF at Bali Hai is not really low unless you consider $1250 for a 2 bedroom (lower floor) low...Thats what I pay....

of course that week converted to 308000 points ($4/1000 points)

Its the rate that's low compared to many other Wyndham properties..If I use my 308000 points to go to Hawaii there is no particular deal. On the other hand as a newly minted Platinum owner, I can use those same points to stay almost two months at Bonnet Creek in the fall (in a one bedroom)...That I do think is a deal

The points buying strategy with Wyndham is to buy at a resort like Bali Hai, but dont stay there.. Spend your points at the older resorts that take fewer points for your reservation. and even if you are not a VIP owner, you can still make your reservations when there are discounts offered.

The points buying strategy is


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## massvacationer (May 15, 2013)

ronparise said:


> On the other hand as a newly minted Platinum owner, I can use those same points to stay almost two months at Bonnet Creek in the fall (in a one bedroom)...That I do think is a deal



Ron

Congrats on going Platinum!  Sorry if I missed it (if you have already discussed this in another thread), but can you share the details regarding your move-up to Platinum?


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## antjmar (May 15, 2013)

massvacationer said:


> Ron
> 
> Congrats on going Platinum!  Sorry if I missed it (if you have already discussed this in another thread), but can you share the details regarding your move-up to Platinum?



Congrats Ron! Please tell us how you did it!


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## ronparise (May 15, 2013)

sfx said:


> Perhaps so.  I am a seasoned traveler with first exposure to a time share in Incline Village about 20 years ago.  I dismissed the concept entirely after reviewing the financials, and I did not look into resale until recently.  If my questions are "no-brainers" then I am here to become informed.  But do note that I am asking a specific question of using the MF rate as a measure to get a financially good deal, not a general question about finding a first, affordable time share.  Based on the times, locations, units and point costs of specific Wyndham properties I would want to use, I will conservatively need 1.5M points each year.  At this level, a difference of $1 in the MF rate between 2 properties is $1,500 a year or tens of thousands over the lifetime of ownership.  This is why I am paying attention to the MF rate.  Of course, as a newbie I do plan to acquire a smaller contract first, probably in the 200-300K range.
> 
> staceyeileen, thank you for your numbers.  Bali Hai and Smokey Mountains are on my list.  May I know the MF you are paying for those two?
> 
> ...



I didnt mean to say purchase price wasnt important. But assuming we are under a penny a point, I wouldnt quibble about a few dollars and risk losing a deal i wanted..


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## GregT (May 15, 2013)

ronparise said:


> The points buying strategy with Wyndham is to buy at a resort like Bali Hai, but dont stay there.. Spend your points at the older resorts that take fewer points for your reservation. and even if you are not a VIP owner, you can still make your reservations when there are discounts offered.



That is outstanding advice........thanks very much and congrats on Platinum!

Best,

Greg


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## ronparise (May 15, 2013)

antjmar said:


> Congrats Ron! Please tell us how you did it!



The short answer is: No.  but  I was already Silver. and it took some money and a purchase from Wyndham. Its not something that I would recommend for most owners... I did it for the 25 additional guest certs and the 50% discount..  For most folks it would take forever to make back the money I had to pay, one discounted reservation at a time.. But I have more points than the average owner (a lot more and Im still buying). And I do a lot of discounted reservations. I will pay back my investment in a few months of increased discounts.


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## jebloomquist (May 15, 2013)

ronparise said:


> On the other hand as a newly minted Platinum owner,



"Ron, how did you do it?", a few of you have asked. He asked me, and then used my advise.

Now Ron, if you really want to know how to squeeze dollars out of dimes when it comes to using your new Platinum points, I'll help you there too. But it is only for the brave. I think you qualify.:whoopie:

Jim


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## benyu2010 (May 16, 2013)

ronparise said:


> The short answer is: No.  but  I was already Silver. and it took some money and a purchase from Wyndham. Its not something that I would recommend for most owners... I did it for the 25 additional guest certs and the 50% discount..  For most folks it would take forever to make back the money I had to pay, one discounted reservation at a time.. But I have more points than the average owner (a lot more and Im still buying). And I do a lot of discounted reservations. I will pay back my investment in a few months of increased discounts.



It sounds you got a decent purchase price and package from Wyn sales office. Maybe a few years extra GCs alone are enough to justify the purchase.


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## antjmar (May 16, 2013)

ronparise said:


> The short answer is: No.  but  I was already Silver. and it took some money and a purchase from Wyndham. Its not something that I would recommend for most owners... I did it for the 25 additional guest certs and the 50% discount..  For most folks it would take forever to make back the money I had to pay, one discounted reservation at a time.. But I have more points than the average owner (a lot more and Im still buying). And I do a lot of discounted reservations. I will pay back my investment in a few months of increased discounts.



Thanks for your answer. I am sure with all your knowledge and sales experience you were able to get a "good" deal. 
Good luck with the rentals!


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