# Wyndham cancelled all my remaining reservations!



## JoeBurmeister (Oct 12, 2013)

I am a club wyndham plus member (resale) since 2007.
I have always paid my MF on time, and despite Wyndham canceling all my remaining vacations, and blocking me from making any future reservations, I am still continuing to make my MF payments. I will forfeit the points I have left in my account for 2013.

Can they legally do that as I am current on my monthly MF?

According to Wyndham, I owe them $545 for the RT/HK that I did not pay for in my last two reservations. I don't see how that is possible as you can't make a reservation unless you pay for any additional RT/HK, beyond the credit Wyndham gives you at the start of the year, at the time the reservation is made. And why wait till a few months after we took the vacations to address this?

Should I just discontinue making my Monthly MF since I can't use the points that I have left?

Since I haven't violated any provision of my Deed such as failure to pay the monthly dues, can Wyndham legally block my future/current reservations?


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## VivianLynne (Oct 12, 2013)

Did you have some type of VIP status associated with your membership?

Could you have had a "damage" claim for a reservation someone else used -- hence, you are getting the bill as they denied it on their credit or debit card OR  it was over their limit?

Did one of your resort's HOAs have a special assessment that you did not pay? That happened to me -- except they just unconverted by week back to the underlying Fixed Week?


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## JoeBurmeister (Oct 12, 2013)

None of the above. I think when I was making the reservations, I ran out of RT/HK credits, and had to use a credit card to purchase more RT/HK credits before I could complete my reservations. But unknown to me at the time, the credit card I used was previously closed by my spouse. But the reservation system allowed me to continue with my reservations so I thought everything went through ok, and didn't give it any further thought. We have since gone on two more mini vacations since that event.

It states in the letter that:

"If you owned a converted fixed week property and/or Affliated contract, it maybe removed from the Club Wyndham Plus program".

I dont own a converted fixed week. I always have been on the points system - so can they still convert me to a "fix week" or worse n remove me from the program?


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## lcml11 (Oct 12, 2013)

JoeBurmeister said:


> None of the above. I think when I was making the reservations, I ran out of RT/HK credits, and had to use a credit card to purchase more RT/HK credits before I could complete my reservations. But unknown to me at the time, the credit card I used was previously closed by my spouse. But the reservation system allowed me to continue with my reservations so I thought everything went through ok, and didn't give it any further thought. We have since gone on two more mini vacations since that event.
> 
> It states in the letter that:
> 
> ...



It sounds like you used a closed credit card.  It bounced, you did not repay the fee.  They proceeded to freeze you account.  

I understand they do things like that from the members directory.

If this is the case, just pay the bill and move one.


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## simpsontruckdriver (Oct 12, 2013)

They can not convert your points to a Fixed Week. It sounds like an error on their part, letting you take your vacations, but the issue remains the same: if you run out of Reservation Transactions and/or Housekeeping Credits, you must pay up.

I suggest calling the financial department (you can get the number from the website) to get that all straightened out.

TS


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## ronparise (Oct 13, 2013)

JoeBurmeister said:


> None of the above. I think when I was making the reservations, I ran out of RT/HK credits, and had to use a credit card to purchase more RT/HK credits before I could complete my reservations. But unknown to me at the time, the credit card I used was previously closed by my spouse. But the reservation system allowed me to continue with my reservations so I thought everything went through ok, and didn't give it any further thought. We have since gone on two more mini vacations since that event.
> 
> It states in the letter that:
> 
> ...



I have always been on the the points system too. Points are symbolic points and some of my points come from weeks that a previous owner converted to the points system

So it is possible that you own a fixwd week

The answer, as has been said, is to call financial services.


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## timeos2 (Oct 13, 2013)

JoeBurmeister said:


> I am a club wyndham plus member (resale) since 2007.
> I have always paid my MF on time, and despite Wyndham canceling all my remaining vacations, and blocking me from making any future reservations, I am still continuing to make my MF payments. I will forfeit the points I have left in my account for 2013.
> 
> Can they legally do that as I am current on my monthly MF?
> ...



This type of outrageous action was a big reason we sold our Wyndham points despite the fact that we found them easy to use, a great value and we paid very little for them. Having all the power in the hands of one group that has a long history of anti-owner moves had bothered me for a long time. We had an ongoing issue with them regarding billing and names on our account. Needless to say numerous attempts to get it corrected and the absolute promise that it would be done resulted in no action. It took a letter from our attorney with some legal threats to finally have it corrected  but it showed us that a mistake - no matter who made it - left us holding the bag (and cost) while Wyndham can take whatever steps they want to "enforce" their rights and prevent you from enjoying what you bought and paid for - as THEY alone see fit! 

I realized that a simple dispute over a payment (like the OP notes) could blow up into something serious exactly as the OP has suffered.  We sold out of Disney for similar control issues and we're very glad we reluctantly opted to sell off our Wyndham.  Since we did the ability to easily rent what we want at a lower cost than owning has allowed us to continue to enjoy Wyndham at a savings.  Easy to see why mentioning rentals to the sales weasels gets them stirred up.  

Putting virtually all control from purchase to management to system administration all in the hands of one group is almost guaranteed to create negative results for owners.  You have no one to appeal to when the same group is judge and jury as well as janitor and administrator.  It is set up to ensure the owner loses.


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## jjmanthei05 (Oct 13, 2013)

JoeBurmeister said:


> I am a club wyndham plus member (resale) since 2007.
> I have always paid my MF on time, and despite Wyndham canceling all my remaining vacations, and blocking me from making any future reservations, I am still continuing to make my MF payments. I will forfeit the points I have left in my account for 2013.
> 
> Can they legally do that as I am current on my monthly MF?
> ...



One other thing is if you are "financially locked out" of your account most likely your reservations are still there. They just wont let you see them. You should call take care of the fee (with an open card) and everything should be fine with your account. It says the "CAN" cancel your reservations, it doesn't mean they do right away. 

Jason


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## pacodemountainside (Oct 13, 2013)

I also had a problem with Finance when switching from annual to  monthly billing.  Even though their screw up Wyndham shoots first and asks questions later.

Called Finance   at 1-800-251-8736  ext 2   or fax at 702-304-4217.  Told it would take  a month to research. Since I had  checkin in two weeks  e-mailed  shelly.griessel@wyn.com and her trouble shooter had fixed in  48 hours.

If your payment bounced you need to  call and give a valid credit card.


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## got4boys (Oct 13, 2013)

The reservation is most likely still there, just hidden or locked out by finance.

This happened to me earlier this year when I put a guest on a reservation and the $99 went through the Wyndham Vacation Resorts portal but somehow was kicked back by the bank. They did send me a letter of this and my account was frozen but after I paid for it by phone (via the same credit card - it went through on the phone) the account was unlocked and all my reservations were there.


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## rickandcindy23 (Oct 13, 2013)

The problem is that Wyndham doesn't have real-time, at the moment credit card approval.  So you think everything is okay, when you pay your guest fees or HK fees, and then DAYS later, your account is shut down because your credit card saw five identical charges for the same exact moment, when Wyndham FINALLY sent the approval to the cc company, and the credit card company thinks those five identical charges are some sort of mistake and blocks Wyndham.  

This is what happens to us every time, which is why we pay our MF's every year in January, when they are due, instead of paying over the year.  They try to tell us, when our guest fees didn't go through, that it is MF payments due.  Back and forth and back and forth, arguing with them was my disdain!  Still is.  They still insist it's MF's due.  

"You owe $495 in MF's which are now past due."
"No, it's 5 guest certificate fees, which add up to $495, and I would guess it's these 5." 
"No it's definitely that your MF's are overdue." 
On and on and on.  Aggravating.


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## JoeBurmeister (Oct 13, 2013)

Well I called the resort to confirm my reservation that I had made earlier in the year, and they told me there was no record of my reservation in their system. And to make matters worse, the resort shows no rooms available after Dec 18th. My family has been going to this resort every Xmas for many years!

I know Wyndham has the power to do this if you don't pay your program and/or maintenance fees. But can they use these strong arms tactics for non-incidentals like RT/HK? Can anyome point me to a clause in the Members Directory stating as such?

It's like me being late on my mortgage payment by a day. The bank slaps a late fee onto the mortgage. I pay my mortgage but not the late fee. The bank can't forclose/evict/lock me out of my home just because I didn't pay the late fee. Now if I didn't make good on the mortgage payment, then it would be a different story. Same principle with Wyndham. Legally, as long as you pay your PF/MF on time every month, Wyndham is obligated to allow me to continue to use what is deeded to me.

Bottom line is that if they can't restore my reservations, then the points I have remaining for 2013 are useless to me. I can't use them nor can  I pool them. I will be down $545, plus the PF/MF I have been paying diligently every month, plus I have to make alternative arrangements for our Christmas holidays, at additional cost to me. This doesn't sound like a win-win situation to me. I am pretty sure Wyndham has over stepped their authority if they did indeed cancelled my reservations.

Sure I could just pony up and pay their $545 but I am just not too crazy about how they go about conducting their business.


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## comicbookman (Oct 13, 2013)

while I sympathize, but it seems to me that you new the card was no good (after the fact), but never checked to see if  things were ok.  Then when Wyndham notified you, you get indignant.  Your mistake is compounded by their arrogance, but it still comes down to you making a mistake and hoping it would slide through rather than fixing it when you discovered it.  Wyndham is a greedy company, but here it appears your lack of follow through was the trigger.


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## jjmanthei05 (Oct 14, 2013)

JoeBurmeister said:


> Well I called the resort to confirm my reservation that I had made earlier in the year, and they told me there was no record of my reservation in their system. And to make matters worse, the resort shows no rooms available after Dec 18th. My family has been going to this resort every Xmas for many years!
> 
> I know Wyndham has the power to do this if you don't pay your program and/or maintenance fees. But can they use these strong arms tactics for non-incidentals like RT/HK? Can anyome point me to a clause in the Members Directory stating as such?
> 
> ...



Are you saying you don't owe the $545? If you owe it pay it otherwise your 2014 points would be useless as well since they wont unlock the account. 

Jason


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## Explorer7 (Oct 14, 2013)

JoeBurmeister said:


> Bottom line is that if they can't restore my reservations, then the points I have remaining for 2013 are useless to me. I can't use them nor can  I pool them. I will be down $545, plus the PF/MF I have been paying diligently every month,


 I am sorry to hear that you lost your Christmas reservation. As long as your account is unlocked before the end of 2013 you don't have to lose your points. The points can be deposited into RCI for a future vacation. Though an RCI week was not your first choice you can still get your money's worth out of your 2013 points at some very nice resorts in the future. I suspect that the longer you wait to pay the RT fees you thought you already paid the more you stand to lose. It may cost you more than $500 in cash, collection fees and "sweat equity" to change Wyndham's practice of locking accounts for delinquent charges of any and perhaps all types.

I get credit card reward points for most of my personal expenses but I don't trust my M/F payments to my credit card because "for me" the reward is not worth the risk of having to clean up the huge mess it can make with my Wyndham account if for some reason the credit card company makes a mistake or my account number has to change due to fraud, bank buyouts etc, etc, etc.


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## vacationhopeful (Oct 14, 2013)

Explorer7 said:


> ...trust my M/F payments to my credit card because "for me" the reward is not worth the risk of having to clean up the huge mess it can make with my Wyndham account if for some reason the credit card company makes a mistake or my account number has to change due to fraud, bank buyouts etc, etc, etc.



Yep, that has happened to me and the dang NEW credit card renewal and the cc company changed the expiration date. BAMB -- Wyndham send me a letter 25 days after they fact with $100 FEE.


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## kwindham (Oct 14, 2013)

IF it were me, I would call, pay the fee, then inquire as to how they can/will accommodate you.  Maybe I have been lucky, but only one time have I gotten a rep that was less than helpful.  I'm sure if you explain it was an _honest_ mistake, they will try to work with you.  As greedy as Wyndham is, they still want there owners to continue paying MF etc, and not defaulting etc.  At the least it prevents paperwork for them.  

I read these horror stories about Wyndham very frequently on here.  I hope I am not jinxing myself.  But I know the date my MF are due, I log on *that* day and pay, when I  need a RT or GC I make for durn positive I input my info (#, exp, etc) correctly and watch until it clears.  It just makes good financial sense to me, but maybe that comes from having an accounting degree/background.  I tend to be hyper vigilante about my money and making sure my responsibilities are paid on time.

Just call, Im sure they will work with you.  If you call and get a nasty rep, hang up and call back.


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## Explorer7 (Oct 14, 2013)

vacationhopeful said:


> Yep, that has happened to me and the dang NEW credit card renewal and the cc company changed the expiration date. BAMB -- Wyndham send me a letter 25 days after they fact with $100 FEE.


 Ouch!!! Just in case I was thinking of taking a chance you just cured me. Thanks for the reaffirmation.


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## Explorer7 (Oct 14, 2013)

kwindham said:


> I read these horror stories about Wyndham very frequently on here.  I hope I am not jinxing myself.  But I know the date my MF are due, I log on *that* day and pay, when I  need a RT or GC I make for durn positive I input my info (#, exp, etc) correctly and watch until it clears.  It just makes good financial sense to me, but maybe that comes from having an accounting degree/background.  I tend to be hyper vigilante about my money and making sure my responsibilities are paid on time.


You are not alone, every dollar has a name on paper on purpose at the beginning of every month and gets tracked throughout the month to make sure everything lines up. Before the month begins DW and I get to be the boss of the budget and tell the budget what we want it to do but once we agree on where we want our money to go the budget then becomes the boss of us.

I remember back in the old days going round and round with a bill collector when he shut me up by saying that if I had simply paid my bill on time we would have had no issues. I leaned the hard way that I can't depend on the banks and merchants to track and manage my money for me.


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## Rob&Carol Q (Oct 15, 2013)

Jeez...sounds very, very familiar to me.

I had a small points stash that was based on a converted week (week 9 or 10 I think) but I somehow missed a payment for something...my memory fails...but I do recall it was my fault.  Bottom line, after a few months of ignoring the issue, *BAM*, Wyndham "Deconverted" the points back to the underlying fixed week.  When I called the resort, they told me it cost something like $2900 to change them back?!?!  Or I could buy more points and the conversion would be tossed in?!?!  Please don't quote me on the number...needless to say, that just wasn't happening. 

I was beyond upset but took some advice here and went back to the main office (not the home resort) in a very polite series of emails immediately after I ensured that I was square financially.  Took a few exchanges but they "Recoverted" me back to points at no cost.  I think I even told them that I liked the Wyndham Program so much that I would give my TS away and repurchase for a dollar on ebay to get my points back!  They even chuckled at that.

Took a month or two but it all worked out.  Far better to start polite with these guys and show them that you are square financially.  Just don't let a sales weasel get involved...


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## Bigrob (Oct 15, 2013)

Rob&Carol Q said:


> Jeez...sounds very, very familiar to me.
> 
> I had a small points stash that was based on a converted week (week 9 or 10 I think) but I somehow missed a payment for something...my memory fails...but I do recall it was my fault.  Bottom line, after a few months of ignoring the issue, *BAM*, Wyndham "Deconverted" the points back to the underlying fixed week.  When I called the resort, they told me it cost something like $2900 to change them back?!?!  Or I could buy more points and the conversion would be tossed in?!?!  Please don't quote me on the number...needless to say, that just wasn't happening.
> 
> ...



I am glad you got that worked out. I've heard other stories that didn't end in that happy place. My concern with this is that it seems like there may be little, if any, notice from Wyndham that there is a problem before the punishments are handed out. When something is missed, why wouldn't they send out a notification to the email address on file before taking more Draconian measures?


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## vacationhopeful (Oct 15, 2013)

Bigrob said:


> ....... When something is missed, why wouldn't they send out a notification to the email address on file before taking more Draconian measures?



Different computers and different operations. The HOA of a FIXED WEEK has turned OVER the collection process to Corporate Wyndham - talk to computer to your bank computer. The HOA - once that box of "Corp Wyndham PAYs" - DOES NOTHING to collect money from you - no late notices, no phone calls, no nothing --- they BARELY can find a record that you exist as ALL those computer records are on the corporate Wyndham computer (not the HOA or onsite management staff). 

The HOAs don't live on email notices - the do the annual MFs billing out of Baltimore via the US Mail. The collection arm was ONE person in Las Vegas for years --- yes, one mean, frustrated and unhappy woman --- you were on HOLD for hours (in the queue waiting for the NEXT available customer service agent). You have no idea - it was the longest 3 days of my life!


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