# Screwed out of Maui



## Kaelyn (Nov 11, 2018)

I love Maui. But, I live on the East Coast, so the Caribbean is more practical, and I own in Grand Cayman. So a couple of years ago we decided to trade for New Zealand. DAE was the only exchange service with inventory, so I left RCI behind, & off I went. It was a great trip.

Now I have 4 credit weeks with them, & I have been planning a Girls' trip with my bestie for 2 years. I had 3 preferred locations on Maui, but wanted to be notified of anything, and put in my request 2 years out. Unbeknownst to me, the staffer put in that we ONLY wanted those locations. Now we find out that the only time DAE gets those specific locations is on a rental basis, which I was not informed of. So they have had me waiting for a 2 week slot that literally would never happen for 1.5 YEARS! When I called in, & I did, several times, I was always told, we're just waiting for the inventory to come in. THEY LIED TO ME!

Our plane tickets are booked, the car is reserved. Our trip was supposed to be Jan 12-26, 2019. If we cancel, we lose our airfare. If we go, seeking other accommodations, we will be paying a ton of money on top of what I have already paid, for whatever we can get, with no kitchen, which will drive our food costs through the roof, and leave us no $ for fun.

It is far too late to get a timeshare now without paying triple what I already paid in maintenance fees, and that's only for 1 week! I am really unhappy with DAE, but the weeks I traded in have been used, there is no way to get them back. So, I'm screwed.

Anybody have any ideas? Or a TS rental they'd like to lease for not much more than the MF for a tugger who got screwed?


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## dioxide45 (Nov 12, 2018)

I am unsure why you would book non-refundable airfare without a confirmed exchange or at least a viable backup?


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## LisaH (Nov 12, 2018)

Since it’s so close to your prebooked vacation dates, my suggestion is to check the rental sites here and redweek.com to see if there is any availability. Also check AirBnB and VRBO.


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## Kaelyn (Nov 12, 2018)

I have checked the rental sites, if I go with anything comparable, it's going to cost me 5K. Never mind that I'm already out the money for the MFs, if I postpone, I lose the airfare. 


dioxide45 said:


> I am unsure why you would book non-refundable airfare without a confirmed exchange or at least a viable backup?


 When you request 2 solid years out, you should be able to get it without any trouble.


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## rickandcindy23 (Nov 12, 2018)

Kaelyn said:


> I have checked the rental sites, if I go with anything comparable, it's going to cost me 5K. Never mind that I'm already out the money for the MFs, if I postpone, I lose the airfare.
> 
> When you request 2 solid years out, you should be able to get it without any trouble.


Not really.  You are not guaranteed to get any exchange.  It's never a guarantee, and I don't care what company you are using.  Maui is just tough.  Whale season is very popular, and Maui is a difficult exchange, anyway.  It's one of the toughest.   

You should definitely look at rentals on the various websites, and definitely check AirBnB and VRBO for something reasonably priced.  Most whale season accommodations will be booked, but you may find something.  Most of those places can be had for less than $200 per night.  There are quite a few along Lower Honoapiilani Road that are oceanfront.


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## Laurie (Nov 12, 2018)

Kaelyn said:


> When you request 2 solid years out, you should be able to get it without any trouble.



Not with DAE.   Sorry that's your experience with DAE -- mine too, they are the very worst with requests and searches, and I never ever got anything through my requests. Long ago I got something good that appeared last-minute in their inventory -- and once upon a time, they had decent customer service, when Donita was there -- but I once did a deposit first, and had to settle for something at the 3-year mark right before expiration, and I swore never again.

Try calling Trading Places, ask whether they expect to have something. Also try Hawaii Timeshare Exchange and Platinum Interchange -- all the independent exchange companies who might, aside from RCI and II, and all of whom have much more inventory than DAE. Maybe you can exchange a future ownership week with one of them.


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## dioxide45 (Nov 12, 2018)

Kaelyn said:


> When you request 2 solid years out, you should be able to get it without any trouble.


I still think your thread title is disingenuous. You weren't "screwed" out of anything. You never had it to begin with. I could perhaps see a problem if you had a confirmed exchange and DEA had to cancel it because of some issue with the deposit or inventory. Perhaps there are some customer service issues at DEA, but booking non refundable airfare without a confirmed exchange or reliable backup is worse than a rookie mistake. When you play the exchange game, regardless of the company, it is like gambling. You took the gamble with your airfare, you can't blame anyone but yourself.

You could try asking for the thread to be moved to the Ask Dial an Exchange (DEA) forum and see if you get any traction with the rep that checks there periodically.


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## rickandcindy23 (Nov 12, 2018)

There are inexpensive hotels and condos on Maui that you can find easily enough.  Still, it's whale season, and that makes for higher prices.  

We have friends who own a condo on Maui.  The local management company that rents the unit for them 90% of the time is always telling them not to stay there during whale season because it commands a higher price.  They want to go to Maui during whale season.  That was their sole purpose in buying a condo on Maui.  They literally go on 20 whale watches in 2 weeks.


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## PamMo (Nov 12, 2018)

It sounds like you have your heart set on Maui. Sorry it hasn't worked out, but that was a big gamble! I see a 2BR ocean view unit for those exact dates at Sands of Kahana for $4,000 on Redweek ($285/nt), or $3,000 for those two weeks in a 2BR at Hono Koa as an RCI rental. If I were you, I'd book a hotel room as a backup, and scour exchange companies and rental sites for a last minute deal you'd be happy with.

Good luck to you!


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## rickandcindy23 (Nov 12, 2018)

Hono Koa is not a bad choice.  That is around the price of the maintenance fees for a 2 bed, 2 bath with washer/dryer and a great kitchen.  I would grab that.  Someone could help you, if you don't have a membership anymore.  

The unit you will get probably won't be oceanfront, but the views from most rooms are not bad at all.  We own oceanfront at Hono Koa, and I absolutely love it.  It's such a pretty place to stay and it's West Maui, which is highly desired by most people.  

As long as you are on a floor above the first floor, you have a good chance of an ocean view.  I have rented through RCI before, Kahana Beach, and we were on the 11th floor there, which I thought was amazing.


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## Kaelyn (Nov 12, 2018)

Laurie said:


> Not with DAE.   Sorry that's your experience with DAE -- mine too, they are the very worst with requests and searches, and I never ever got anything through my requests. Long ago I got something good that appeared last-minute in their inventory -- and once upon a time, they had decent customer service, when Donita was there -- but I once did a deposit first, and had to settle for something at the 3-year mark right before expiration, and I swore never again.
> 
> Try calling Trading Places, ask whether they expect to have something. Also try Hawaii Timeshare Exchange and Platinum Interchange -- all the independent exchange companies who might, aside from RCI and II, and all of whom have much more inventory than DAE. Maybe you can exchange a future ownership week with one of them.



Thanks!


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## Kaelyn (Nov 12, 2018)

I've got some phone calls in, and I'm working on it.  I just hate to spend the $ we had planned on for fun on accomodations.


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## Kaelyn (Nov 12, 2018)

I'd be perfectly happy with non-ocean view, relatively near the beach, preferably Kihei area.  I'm not super fussy about that, I just need a decent place with a kitchen.  It's so late in the season that everything is sky high, and it irks me to have banked the time, paid the MF fees, only to not be able to use them, all because of a staffer's goof.


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## Luanne (Nov 12, 2018)

I know you said you had a few things you were looking at, so you may have already seen these, but here are couple from Redweek in Kihei.  Dates may not match up exactly.

https://www.redweek.com/resort/P1190-maui-schooner?start_date=01/12/2019&end_date=01/26/2019

https://www.redweek.com/resort/P460...ort?start_date=01/12/2019&end_date=01/26/2019


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## rickandcindy23 (Nov 12, 2018)

Kaelyn said:


> all because of a staffer's goof.


A staffer's goof?  I doubt that anyone promised you they would be able to get the exact dates you needed.  No exchange company does that.  If they did do that, that staffer should be reprimanded.  

I struggle with one particular exchange company that has a lot of my deposits.  I am sure I will lose some of them, when all is said and done.


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## Kaelyn (Nov 12, 2018)

You're correct in that they did not promise me certain dates. But, they put in the computer that I would only accept one particular location. While getting in there would have been great, getting the reservation was MUCH more important to me, and I told them so. Their goof locked me out of a LOT of possibilities.  So yes, I would definitely say that the staffer's goof screwed me up.


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## Kaelyn (Nov 12, 2018)

Laurie said:


> Not with DAE.   Sorry that's your experience with DAE -- mine too, they are the very worst with requests and searches, and I never ever got anything through my requests. Long ago I got something good that appeared last-minute in their inventory -- and once upon a time, they had decent customer service, when Donita was there -- but I once did a deposit first, and had to settle for something at the 3-year mark right before expiration, and I swore never again.
> 
> Try calling Trading Places, ask whether they expect to have something. Also try Hawaii Timeshare Exchange and Platinum Interchange -- all the independent exchange companies who might, aside from RCI and II, and all of whom have much more inventory than DAE. Maybe you can exchange a future ownership week with one of them.



 I will do that, and thanks.  I didn't know about Trading Places.  I would hand them a future year if need be. When I use up my credits with DAE, it will definitely be "never again".


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## klpca (Nov 12, 2018)

Kaelyn said:


> I will do that, and thanks.  I didn't know about Trading Places.  I would hand them a future year if need be. When I use up my credits with DAE, it will definitely be "never again".


Also check Trading Places Maui. They handle Maui Hill in Kihei.


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## Luanne (Nov 12, 2018)

klpca said:


> Also check Trading Places Maui. They handle Maui Hill in Kihei.


I just looked at their website. Nothing available in January 2019.  We're still waiting on a trade (for a specific resort Maui Hill) and 2 specific weeks.


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## Sandy VDH (Nov 12, 2018)

Maui is the hardest trade in all of Hawaii.  There is a lot of demand and NOT a lot of supply.  2 years or not, there was never a guarantee.  

And by the way, RCI as NOW purchased DAE.  So blame RCI.


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## Tamaradarann (Nov 15, 2018)

Kaelyn said:


> I love Maui. But, I live on the East Coast, so the Caribbean is more practical, and I own in Grand Cayman. So a couple of years ago we decided to trade for New Zealand. DAE was the only exchange service with inventory, so I left RCI behind, & off I went. It was a great trip.
> 
> Now I have 4 credit weeks with them, & I have been planning a Girls' trip with my bestie for 2 years. I had 3 preferred locations on Maui, but wanted to be notified of anything, and put in my request 2 years out. Unbeknownst to me, the staffer put in that we ONLY wanted those locations. Now we find out that the only time DAE gets those specific locations is on a rental basis, which I was not informed of. So they have had me waiting for a 2 week slot that literally would never happen for 1.5 YEARS! When I called in, & I did, several times, I was always told, we're just waiting for the inventory to come in. THEY LIED TO ME!
> 
> ...



While I can understand your desire to go to Maui, however, there are other Hawaiian Islands that you could go to and pay the airline change fee.  Honolulu and the Island of Hawaii has more availability and perhaps they could get you those locations for your 2 weeks.


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## pspercy (Nov 18, 2018)

The other day I received an email from a condo management company in Maui.

It says: 
Save 25% off 2019
Peak Season Rates

Travel dates:
Jan 1, 2019 – Mar 31, 2019.

*Rates starting from $174.00 a night on Maui or Kauai!* Book your Maui or Kauai getaway and enjoy PEAK Season for a fraction of the cost!
​*Use Promo Code CYB1*Book online or call: 
1-800-367-5242

https://www.condominiumrentalshawaii.com/irmnet/(S(eg10ouwuspsk15c1qde0cobr))/res/ResMain.aspx

Some of the rates are indeed painful.

Good Luck.


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## frank808 (Nov 19, 2018)

Will never use DAE again.  Deposited my Hilton Hawaiian Village Unit and told no problem in getting a comparable unit to Maui.  That never happened and this was in 2010.  That deposit and $1500 went to waste many years ago and have never done anything with DAE again.  They even called me after a couple years and said would I like to pay to have my deposit extended so that I will get a unit next year.  Told them I have waited 2 years and all I get is excuses so why would I throw good money after bad.  This was during the recession when not as many were travelling as now.


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## davidvel (Nov 19, 2018)

Kaelyn said:


> You're correct in that they did not promise me certain dates. But, they put in the computer that I would only accept one particular location. While getting in there would have been great, getting the reservation was MUCH more important to me, and I told them so. Their goof locked me out of a LOT of possibilities.  So yes, I would definitely say that the staffer's goof screwed me up.


Your original post said 3 locations and now you are saying 1 location. A goof? Yours or theirs? You booked airfare from the east coast with no unit booked. . .


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## cerralee (Nov 20, 2018)

I have used DAE with considerable success in the past.  I now have two weeks banked with them and have a four week window in the Spring also looking for Hawaii.  In the past I have secured matches far, far in the future and also seen availability pop up close to the anticipated travel time.  Since RCI has taken over DAE, I am not having the success of seeing availability as I have in the past.  
That being said, I have also been tracking RCI for last minute availability for Oahu and the rest of Hawaii.  I have my echo set up to manually do a search for Hawaii each morning around 7 o'clock.  During the week I can expect a few every day to show up last minute.  These resorts are at the discounted TPU rate and usually are for the next week to ten days regarding check in time.  I keep a calendar and almost every week there has been at least one available resort that shows up.  Booking airfare in advance is not for the faint of heart, but the inventory is there.  I have a definite advantage as to booking airfare, as my daughter lives on Oahu in a small apartment and can put me up just in case my plans fall through.  In the past I have scheduled three month long vacations (30 days) using advance DAE and last minute RCI units.  I did stay at my daughters for approximately four nights each time.  
Looking at availability that has not shown up in DAE over the last six months, I will probably be going with RCI in the future.  I really did like DAE but am disappointed in current trade opportunities.


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## klpca (Nov 20, 2018)

cerralee said:


> I have my echo set up to manually do a search for Hawaii each morning around 7 o'clock.


How do you get it to log in by itself & do a search? Fascinating.


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## cerralee (Nov 20, 2018)

klpca said:


> How do you get it to log in by itself & do a search? Fascinating.


I have given the wrong impression. It is just a reminder that says check rci every morning.


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## klpca (Nov 20, 2018)

cerralee said:


> I have given the wrong impression. It is just a reminder that says check rci every morning.


Bummer! I has hopeful, lol.


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## cerralee (Nov 20, 2018)

Give it time....yesterday I got a message I could change my TV channels by talking to it!!  That Alexa is a clever one!!


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## T_R_Oglodyte (Nov 20, 2018)

cerralee said:


> Give it time....yesterday I got a message I could change my TV channels by talking to it!!  That Alexa is a clever one!!


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## alwysonvac (Nov 21, 2018)

Kaelyn said:


> .... *Our plane tickets are booked, the car is reserved. Our trip was supposed to be Jan 12-26, 2019. If we cancel, we lose our airfare*.



Depending on the type of airfare you purchased, you might be able to reschedule your flight for a later date after paying a penalty (hefty change fee + airfare difference). Pay attention to their rescheduling deadline (normally a year after purchase). This will give you time to secure your Hawaii exchange weeks first based on availability then rebook your flight based on your confirmed exchange dates.

_TIP: Try to be flexibile with your exchange travel dates (if possible) by requesting months instead of specific dates. Non-Holiday weeks (whenever the majority of kids are in school) such as April/May & Sept-Dec have lesser demand._

https://www.cntraveler.com/story/best-and-worst-airlines-for-flight-change-fees
https://thepointsguy.com/guide/airline-change-and-cancellation-fees-how-to-avoid-them/



Kaelyn said:


> ....Now I have 4 credit weeks with them, & I have been planning a Girls' trip with my bestie for 2 years. *I had 3 preferred locations on Maui, but wanted to be notified of anything, and put in my request 2 years out. Unbeknownst to me, the staffer put in that we ONLY wanted those locations*. Now we find out that the only time DAE gets those specific locations is on a rental basis, which I was not informed of....





Kaelyn said:


> I have checked the rental sites, if I go with anything comparable, it's going to cost me 5K. Never mind that I'm already out the money for the MFs, if I postpone, I lose the airfare.
> *When you request 2 solid years out, you should be able to get it without any trouble*.





Kaelyn said:


> You're correct in that they did not promise me certain dates. But, they put in the computer that I would only accept one particular location. While getting in there would have been great, getting the reservation was MUCH more important to me, and I told them so. *Their goof locked me out of a LOT of possibilities.  So yes, I would definitely say that the staffer's goof screwed me up*.




Just want to make sure you understand that even if the staffer had setup your request correctly to take anything on Maui *there was never a guarantee*.

You goofed when you booked airfare expecting a match for a specific date in a high demand area.
Exchanging requires flexibility. This applies to all exchange companies. Timeshare exchanges are not like booking a hotel reservation.

It is important to understand that exchange companies only have access to what is deposited and not all weeks are deposited. The number of deposits for each resort varies. You will have no idea how many weeks are actually deposited (for example it could be 1, 10, 30, 60 or 100s), what time of year they make deposits, which weeks do they deposit (Winter, Spring, Fall or Summer week) and where are you in the exchange queue.

Keep in mind as an trader, you have to be willing to take whatever is deposited (whatever resort, unit sizes and/or dates that become available). Expect high owner occupancy at high demand resort and/or destinations especially during peak travel season (that's why most of these owners bought there). Having the flexibility to pick and choose where you want to stay and when you want to stay is an owner benefit. For high demand destinations and/or resorts, traders must compete to get whatever is leftover.  Whenever you narrow your selection to a specific travel date or resort, you may limit your chances of a successful match. It's best to make a broad request in terms of travel dates (weeks/months vs a specific date) and/or resorts.


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## Tamaradarann (Nov 22, 2018)

Now I have 4 credit weeks with them, & I have been planning a Girls' trip with my bestie for 2 years. I had 3 preferred locations on Maui, but wanted to be notified of anything, and put in my request 2 years out. Unbeknownst to me, the staffer put in that we ONLY wanted those locations. 

I believe that the following may help clarify what the problems are that got you into your dilemma:

1. Your thinking that the staffer put in that we ONLY wanted those locations on Maui, but you wanted to be notified about anything is not possible with the RCI search system that I used and inputted the request to get 2 weeks in Maui in April 2019.   Perhaps the DAE system has the same limitations.  First of all your thinking was very narrow in the definition of "anything".  My anything would be anything in the islands of Hawaii.  Second of all I started this search in the winter of 2018.  Third, I specified that I wanted weeks starting from April 19th thru April 27th but I put about 20 of the top rated RCI resort numbers in Maui, Oahu, Kauai, and Hawaii Island.  After the Kaanapali Beach Resort in Maui came up starting April 19th, I requested the same resorts again for the 26th of April.  If I got another resort in the Hawaiian Islands I would have moved to another resort, however, to my good fortune the Kaanapali Beach Resort came up in a few days starting with the 26th of April, so we are good for 2 weeks in the same resort.  

2. You can't book your airfare before you get your timeshare time is booked for hard to get locations.  For Las Vegas and Orlando you can do that except perhaps when the kids are out of school.


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## alwysonvac (Nov 22, 2018)

Renting is another option. TUG member LisaRex provided great tips on how to choose a VRBO renter - http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1870837&postcount=12.
And there also are other rental websites like redweek.com and the TUG marketplace


If you’re an RCI member, there are getaways for your travel dates


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## TravelTime (Nov 22, 2018)

To the OP: I do not know the details but I feel really bad for you. I empathize with your situation. It sounds like you trusted this exchange company and they screwed you. I hope you can find another affordable place to stay with your friends. It is terrible that we live in a world where we can no longer trust other and when we do, we get criticized for it. Or maybe you can put some pressure on the exchange company or RCI, their parent company, to find something for you.


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## Dean (Nov 23, 2018)

TravelTime said:


> To the OP: I do not know the details but I feel really bad for you. I empathize with your situation. It sounds like you trusted this exchange company and they screwed you. I hope you can find another affordable place to stay with your friends. It is terrible that we live in a world where we can no longer trust other and when we do, we get criticized for it. Or maybe you can put some pressure on the exchange company or RCI, their parent company, to find something for you.


If your reference is to the admonishments on this thread that the OP should not have booked airfare without accommodations or a backup plan or that their request was too narrow, I completely disagree.  In reality we don't know what happened here other than they did not match.  We weren't there and there were likely misunderstandings on both ends of the conversation based on what's been shared here.  As for societal trends, I'd say lack of personal responsibility is more common and often the source of criticism.


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## Tamaradarann (Nov 23, 2018)

Dean said:


> If your reference is to the admonishments on this thread that the OP should not have booked airfare without accommodations or a backup plan or that their request was too narrow, I completely disagree.  In reality we don't know what happened here other than they did not match.  We weren't there and there were likely misunderstandings on both ends of the conversation based on what's been shared here.  As for societal trends, I'd say lack of personal responsibility is more common and often the source of criticism.



While I also sympathize with Kaelyn, sympathizing with her doesn't help her with this situation or the next timeshare vacation plan.  I tried to give some constructive criticism in the form of what I did to successfully get 2 weeks in Maui.  I agree with you that lack of personal responsibility is common and misunderstandings on both ends the source of the problem.

I don't know the DAE system and their likelihood of getting you what you want.  I have been timesharing successfully for 14 years primarily with the Hilton Grand Vacation Club and RCI systems and have always gotten what I wanted, or changed my plans to align with what was available.  However, I did not let the exchange company solely control my success.  I studied the systems with possible scenarios to see what I could book.  I looked at what was readily reservable today as a basis, and then tried different possible reaches.  Maui was one of my reaches. With vacation planning I usually take what others have called the belt and suspenders approach. (I had a backup plan with the Hilton Grand Vacation Club in Honolulu if I couldn't get any of the resorts that I searched for with RCI).  These thoughts are not meant as criticism, they are meant to put out there what has been successful for me.


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## Dean (Nov 23, 2018)

Tamaradarann said:


> While I also sympathize with Kaelyn, sympathizing with her doesn't help her with this situation or the next timeshare vacation plan.  I tried to give some constructive criticism in the form of what I did to successfully get 2 weeks in Maui.  I agree with you that lack of personal responsibility is common and misunderstandings on both ends the source of the problem.
> 
> I don't know the DAE system and their likelihood of getting you what you want.  I have been timesharing successfully for 14 years primarily with the Hilton Grand Vacation Club and RCI systems and have always gotten what I wanted, or changed my plans to align with what was available.  However, I did not let the exchange company solely control my success.  I studied the systems with possible scenarios to see what I could book.  I looked at what was readily reservable today as a basis, and then tried different possible reaches.  Maui was one of my reaches. With vacation planning I usually take what others have called the belt and suspenders approach. (I had a backup plan with the Hilton Grand Vacation Club in Honolulu if I couldn't get any of the resorts that I searched for with RCI).  These thoughts are not meant as criticism, they are meant to put out there what has been successful for me.


I think all independent exchange companies present challenges in terms of volume though all have a place for the right situation.  DAE specifically seems to be good for those trying to trade up and less so for those who have higher demand options simply because of their exchange model.  Not right or wrong, just different.  And historically I think they've been good for Europe though I haven't personally used them.  Even with II or RCI and a Marriott internal preference even planning 2 years out, I would not have been confident scheduling air without a back-up plan.


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## Tamaradarann (Nov 23, 2018)

Dean said:


> I think all independent exchange companies present challenges in terms of volume though all have a place for the right situation.  DAE specifically seems to be good for those trying to trade up and less so for those who have higher demand options simply because of their exchange model.  Not right or wrong, just different.  And historically I think they've been good for Europe though I haven't personally used them.  Even with II or RCI and a Marriott internal preference even planning 2 years out, I would not have been confident scheduling air without a back-up plan.



Not only do I concur with your last statement about scheduling air without a reservation or a back-up plan, I still haven't booked our return air from Maui.  I don't like the rates using miles on Hawaiian Airlines right now, so I am waiting for what I consider the right amount of miles for the trip.  If I don't get the right miles,  I might just stay in Honolulu for week or so, or maybe go to Las Vegas or the West Coast with Hawaiian miles and stay for awhile and fly home to NY on Southwest.  The cab ride from Islip, our local airport, is 1/3 the cost of coming from JFK.  We are retired so we can vacation 365 days a year if we want.


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## TravelTime (Nov 23, 2018)

Maybe the best solution is to fly to a different island that has more availability at cheaper prices. It is a short hop, skip and a jump.


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## Tamaradarann (Nov 23, 2018)

TravelTime said:


> Maybe the best solution is to fly to a different island that has more availability at cheaper prices. It is a short hop, skip and a jump.



We may do that but the ultimate object is to get back to Long Island, and at that point we will have been in Hawaii already for a very long time.  We have been to all 6 islands you can go to and spend many nights on Oahu every year.  There are very good airline mile flights to the west coast but the trips to JFK leave sometime to be desired.  We will then be half way back to Long Island and can get a Southwest flight the rest of the way.  Las Vegas is always a blast and the weather in Spring and Fall is the best.  We have never been to Arizona, Washington or Oregon so if we can spend some time there on our way home it is a win win.


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