# Smuggs Club Owners To Get Exit Letter Sometime This Week



## WinniWoman (Jan 3, 2017)

Evidently all inventory derived from this program will go to Wyndham. Being a long time owner I am very curious as to what will be offered.  Any thoughts?


----------



## 55plus (Jan 3, 2017)

Fee increases and higher maintenance fees. . .


----------



## uscav8r (Jan 3, 2017)

mpumilia said:


> Evidently all inventory derived from this program will go to Wyndham. Being a long time owner I am very curious as to what will be offered.  Any thoughts?



Having gone to the Smuggs site out of curiosity for resale prices, they would have to offer something close to the current market rate would they not?

$90k for a seasonal ownership. $300k for a half-share?

Unless those asking prices are inflated, that is. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## WinniWoman (Jan 3, 2017)

uscav8r said:


> Having gone to the Smuggs site out of curiosity for resale prices, they would have to offer something close to the current market rate would they not?
> 
> $90k for a seasonal ownership. $300k for a half-share?
> 
> ...




I don't know about the share owners as I am a club owner. But, let's face it- timeshares are not really selling so they are more or less worthless. 

The thing is, most of the club owners there are still weeks or RCI points owners and have not converted to Wyndham. Only about 15% of owners have. Rather than build more units, I think they are trying to get them from present owners who are ageing out. So they did a survey back in the Fall and we have all been anxiously awaiting the results and what their offer or program might be.


----------



## 55plus (Jan 4, 2017)

They will down play the value, talk about the expense and outlay it will take to bring them up to Wyndham standards, mention a major special assessment coming for issues that don't exist, etc. They'll make it sound like the world will end for you financially and paint a dreary picture unless you convert to Wyndham. Plan on getting screwed. If you like what you have then sell it to Wyndham, get what you can get for it and go on this website, eBay, etc., and buy it back for pennies on the dollar off the second market. Save tens of thousands of dollars and then go on vacation. . .


----------



## bobbyoc23 (Jan 4, 2017)

Can someone please clarify what the issue is? Is Wyndham trying to buy out and end the Ownership Program at Smugglers' Notch? I was interested in buying either a FamilyShare or EquiShare. I have my first Smuggs vacation scheduled for this coming July and was going to ask about this program and look at any available units. Is this going away? They are still advertising it on smuggs.com...


----------



## WinniWoman (Jan 4, 2017)

bobbyoc23 said:


> Can someone please clarify what the issue is? Is Wyndham trying to buy out and end the Ownership Program at Smugglers' Notch? I was interested in buying either a FamilyShare or EquiShare. I have my first Smuggs vacation scheduled for this coming July and was going to ask about this program and look at any available units. Is this going away? They are still advertising it on smuggs.com...



The only issue is that many owners - like at other resorts- are ageing out and are looking for a way to divest themselves of the ownership. These are both share owners and club owners. Meanwhile, with Wyndham now in the picture, many owners also do not want to convert. Originally the resort had plans to build more units because more Wyndham inventory is needed for the exchangers and purchasers. But- most Smuggs owners use their home weeks limiting availability.

Hence, the management first changed all the private rental rules and lastly now they are going to offer owners a way to say goodbye to their Smuggs ownership.

It is much cheaper to take back the weeks/ units that already exist that do new construction.

My opinion- and I have owned there since 1999- is that they would like the whole resort to be Wyndham. It is still privately owned.


----------



## WinniWoman (Jan 4, 2017)

The share ownerships are not going away as far as I know. And people are still buying at Smuggs - but resale- which is smart. Most of those are fixed or RCI points club ownerships.

If you buy a share ownership I would look very hard at rental numbers because if you are depending on rentals to pay your maintenance fees ( which is their sales pitch) - well- good luck with that. Things were bad a few years ago with those rentals because of the rise of the Internet and club owners renting their weeks. The resort has now made it very hard for club owners to rent their weeks tying it in with the use of benefits and an expensive amenities usage package for the club owners' renters.

This new policy has been in effect for a year now so I guess it's possible things have turned around a bit for share owners, but call me cynical, I doubt it.

The fees/ taxes every year are very high on share ownerships. You could buy a small summer home in Northern Vermont for that matter.


----------



## bobbyoc23 (Jan 4, 2017)

Thank you for your candid response. If you don't mind me asking, what type of ownership do you have, Full, FamilyShare, EquiShare or WinterShare?


----------



## WinniWoman (Jan 4, 2017)

bobbyoc23 said:


> Thank you for your candid response. If you don't mind me asking, what type of ownership do you have, Full, FamilyShare, EquiShare or WinterShare?



I have a simple yearly deeded club ownership- fixed summer week 30 with an "attached" off season floater week with dates that vary from year to year. Just 2 weeks per year. I did not covert to Wyndham Points or even RCI points.


----------



## 55plus (Jan 4, 2017)

If someone is happy with what they have then there is no reason to convert. On the other hand, if Wyndham becomes the management company you can count on maintenance fees and other fees increasing on your fixed week. Then Wyndham will show you how much money you'll save by converting and the benefits that go along with Wyndham points, but it will cost you a lot of money and it may be hard to get a reservation for week 30, your former fixed week, if you convert.


----------



## WinniWoman (Jan 4, 2017)

morrisjim said:


> If someone is happy with what they have then there is no reason to convert. On the other hand, if Wyndham becomes the management company you can count on maintenance fees and other fees increasing on your fixed week. Then Wyndham will show you how much money you'll save by converting and the benefits that go along with Wyndham points, but it will cost you a lot of money and it may be hard to get a reservation for week 30, your former fixed week, if you convert.



Oh I have no intention of converting. I am actually going to consider divesting of it depending on what the offer is. We are really not ready to get rid of it. We still love it. We were thinking in maybe 5+ years after we retire and move and will be towards 70 at that point. But- I assume that the offer- if it is a viable offer to take back- might have a deadline of some kind on it, so we will have to evaluate it. I am really jumping the gun here, but I am very curious as to what the exit proposal will be. If it would be some form of Ovation or something else. Will they offer money for the ownerships or will they make us pay something to them to take it back, etc.

Right now Wyndham only handles sales, but there is no doubt they have a major influence on everything that goes on at the resort now. The resort is currently a mish mash of fixed deeded weeks owners, RCI points owners and Wyndham owners, as well as full and partial year share owners.


----------



## 55plus (Jan 4, 2017)

Here is one for sale on eBay: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Wyndham-Smu...325012?hash=item4d50937d94:g:rq0AAOSwo4pYRa7q


----------



## WinniWoman (Jan 5, 2017)

morrisjim said:


> Here is one for sale on eBay: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Wyndham-Smu...325012?hash=item4d50937d94:g:rq0AAOSwo4pYRa7q




Believe me, there are tons of them for sale out there.....


----------



## WinniWoman (Jan 9, 2017)

So received the email today and though it did not spell out all the details yet it basically seems a lot like the Ovation program. They call it the "Farewell" program. Supposedly more details to follow. We qualify for the take back based on the criteria in the email.

My next question is- if an owner wants to turn their ownership back to the resort, what happens if the owner has already done an exchange for the following year- in this case 2018? Has anyone had any experience with this type of thing? Supposedly they will be offering the take back to a limited amount of owners for this year- not sure about next year if they will even offer it.

Just two weeks ago I exchanged my 2018 floater week (which is attached to the fixed week in the ownership) for 2018. Funny- 'cause I rarely exchange and wouldn't you know it... this possibility happens. It was in the back of my mind that maybe I should not exchange it, but there was a good trade for us and I didn't want to lose it in the event the take back offer wasn't a good one (like if they wanted us to pay them money to take it back and so on). Plus, they weren't even sure they were going to do the program. So- I exchanged our float week 42 with TP while I had the opportunity. Our fixed week is never traded. Now I am wondering if it was the right thinking to do considering all this.

But I do own a so-called deluxe unit during a  prime summer week. My husband and I are seriously considering giving it back- once we have all the information. The resort did say in the email they would pay all transfer costs.

So I am hoping the fact that I exchanged a week in 2018 won't hinder the process if we definitely want to go through with giving back our ownership. More input please.


----------



## Ty1on (Jan 9, 2017)

mpumilia said:


> So received the email today and though it did not spell out all the details yet it basically seems a lot like the Ovation program. They call it the "Farewell" program. Supposedly more details to follow. We qualify for the take back based on the criteria in the email.
> 
> My next question is- if an owner wants to turn their ownership back to the resort, what happens if the owner has already done an exchange for the following year- in this case 2018? Has anyone had any experience with this type of thing? Supposedly they will be offering the take back to a limited amount of owners for this year- not sure about next year if they will even offer it.
> 
> ...



I thought you really enjoyed your Smuggs week.....


----------



## WinniWoman (Jan 9, 2017)

We do! But- this could be an opportunity to divest ourselves of the responsibility before we retire. And while there is a viable offer right in front of us it is worth considering. We could always rent from Wyndham owners - maybe for the exact week we now own- and we would keep our other Timeshare in NH.


----------



## vacationhopeful (Jan 9, 2017)

Give back your FLOATER week .. reduce your MFs... that is the least valuable week.

Keep the one you enjoy & can rent for a profit (?)

Wyndham is not stupid ... if requiring you to give back both weeks .. most pwners would be temped to say "NO". As a fixed week resort, they will most likely have to keep the concept of EQUAL MFs for all deeded weeks... just like at Sea Gardens & Santa Barbara. (Sea Gardens has 5 different HOAs ... each with their own MFs costs & billings ... Just like Smuggs?) 

Getting back offseason weeks, Wyndham can get more guests to visit ... and try to convert them to owners. Wyndham has great SKILL turning a full rooms of sales guests into owners. ... 3 day weekend trips/4 day midweeks stays offseason promising them PRIME ski week vacations or July 4th weeks. Then to get more sales later ... buying back the HIGH DEMAND weeks quietly.

PS All deeds on the give backs are transfer to CWA.


----------



## tschwa2 (Jan 9, 2017)

Smuggs weeks are connected you can't sell or giveaway the floater with out the attached fixed week.  That was there solution for the off season.  It worked for years and people were willing to pay the full double MF for both weeks, or the alternate which was EOY prime fixed and EOY off season floater.


----------



## WinniWoman (Jan 9, 2017)

I did get a response from management in regards to my question about owners who have already exchanged or banked their weeks/points. The person who responded did not know the answer and said as they develop the program would have to take it into consideration. What- they didn't think of that? She was also was surprised to hear that I use the independent exchange companies. Said she never heard of anyone using them (I assume she meant of Smuggs owners).


----------



## tschwa2 (Jan 9, 2017)

Ovation has taken back deeded weeks.  From what I have heard, if you used the week (depoisted/exchanged or used as home week) that was ok as long as you paid the MF for the week.  On the other hand if you paid the MF and have not changed or deposited you may (but may not) get that back.


----------



## WinniWoman (Jan 10, 2017)

tschwa2 said:


> Ovation has taken back deeded weeks.  From what I have heard, if you used the week (depoisted/exchanged or used as home week) that was ok as long as you paid the MF for the week.  On the other hand if you paid the MF and have not changed or deposited you may (but may not) get that back.




So I guess there is a possibility in my case that I could pay the maintenance fee for the 2018 floater week if I decide to give my ownership back and that would be that?. But- how does that still work? I have paid to exchange the week already and given it to Trading Places. Do I then still go on the exchange vacation? How can Wyndham/Smuggs sell my ownership to someone else if my floater week is sitting in the Trading Places inventory or if someone else takes that floater week from TP for an exchange? 

Hard for me to wrap my head around since I am a fixed week owner, but Wyndham sells points ownerships.

I guess I just have to be patient and see what transpires in the next few weeks. All the while I still have mixed feelings about giving it back. Still haven't made a definitive decision but am leaning towards doing so depending on the details.


----------



## scootr5 (Jan 10, 2017)

What Wyndham would likely do is to place the deeded weeks in to the CWA trust and sell the equivalent points for the two weeks. Your particular points would then be earmarked as not being "available" until 1/1/2019.


----------



## WinniWoman (Jan 10, 2017)

scootr5 said:


> What Wyndham would likely do is to place the deeded weeks in to the CWA trust and sell the equivalent points for the two weeks. Your particular points would then be earmarked as not being "available" until 1/1/2019.



I see. So Wyndham would convert the 2 weeks to points and keep it in a trust. I would have usage of both weeks in in 2018- paying my maintenance fees and so forth for the two of them.  After that I no longer would own it and then Wyndham would make the points available to purchase for 2019 going forward. Now that makes sense to me. Do I have that right? Let's see if they do that. Thanks.


----------



## scootr5 (Jan 10, 2017)

Yes, they seem to be adding anything they take back to the CWA trust. The unit size and association would determine the total points, so a 2 bedroom in Tamaracks, Aspen or Sycamores would be 224,000 points for the summer week and 182,000 for the off season week, for a total of 406,000 CWA points they could sell (with no need to worry about what season they were trying to sell).


----------



## WinniWoman (Jan 10, 2017)

I hope they do something like that because that would work out for owners like us who think it is a bit premature to terminate our ownership, yet we don't want to miss an opportunity to divest easily. We could use it for the next two years and then it would be over. My husband will be 65 by then- I will be 62- and going into retirement soon thereafter.

Important because smuggs is not guaranteeing there will be an offer next year or any of the years going forward. If we could take care of it now and keep using it for two more years, it is a win-win. We only have 3 years of "benefits' left as well- not that we use them anymore. If we are given an offer and it  is reasonable and is something like what you have stated, I would consider us lucky.


----------



## WinniWoman (Mar 17, 2017)

So, although owners will not be getting all the details about the Smuggs Farewell Program until April 5, I did find out that an owner cannot have already traded a week when giving back their timeshare ownership. If weeks are banked with RCI, they can call RCI to retrieve the weeks as long as they haven't already been exchanged. (Our traded week for 2018 is with Trading Places anyway.)

Anyway, I did find out that they will probably keep the Farewell Program going for 3 years and it was suggested that I do not deposit/trade any of my weeks going forward- like those in 2019. I normally never trade anyway, but it just so happens that our 2018 and 2019 floaters are in November-not a great season at the resort-, which is why I exchanged the 2018 already. I will hold off on depositing/exchanging the 2019 one.

So, barring that the details/costs of the Farewell Program are not outrageous, it is something we will consider in 2019, though we would have liked to wait until 2020 when our benefits expire (although we actually haven't used them in years) and my husband retires .

 Of course, there is always the possibility that we could change our minds.


----------



## pedro47 (Mar 17, 2017)

Wyndham does a very good in maintaining their resorts in my opinion. Fees are high but they are not higher that DRI.


----------



## Avislo (Mar 17, 2017)

https://www.tapatalk.com/topic/67985-timeshare-users-group/250311-wyndham-smugglers-notch-buy-back


----------



## md8287 (Apr 5, 2017)

Smuggs owners have until 9am TOMORROW (4/6) to join farewell program per email this morning.  Owners must be current on fees, have no mortgage and Smuggs is only taking a "limited" number back, based on first come first serve and what you are giving back.   If you own fixed and float you need to give both back.

If you own week 7, 51, or 52 in a 2BR+ ski-in/out of course Smuggs Farewell will accept you but you could also sell for a little bit (I know many buyers for those so check out marketplace wanted ads).


----------



## WinniWoman (Apr 5, 2017)

Crazy that they are giving people such a tight deadline- but- hey- better than nothing.

The nice thing about the Smuggs Farewell Program is they are not charging any fees at all. More than likely we will participate next year, since we already did a 2018 exchange of our float week and, therefore, am not eligible this round. But the letter did indicate that next years' offer is going to be designed for HOA's delinquent properties. Hopefully we will not have to be delinquent to participate.

Then again, maybe we will change our minds. We at least have another year to think about it. Have mixed feelings as we still love going.


----------



## WinniWoman (Apr 11, 2017)

Judging from the Smuggs Owners Facebook page comments, things are not going well for some people who actually replied within the first hour- some as quickly as the first 10 minutes of getting the Smuggs email. Although meeting all the stated criteria in the email from the management, evidently they were still not accepted and were told it was because it was on a first come first serve basis. Owners are baffled as to what other criteria Smuggs might have used and why they did not disclose this criteria before initiating the application process. For example, one woman has a week 31 yearly two week ownership (one fixed and one floater) in the village and was rejected. Another man had an every other even year in West Hill week 34 an he was rejected. One woman had an Aspens week 33 Odd with a floater and she got in for consideration. Another had a West Hill 3 bedroom week 3, fixed and a float, and was rejected and she responded within 10 minutes!

Some people who were rejected said they were offered to be put on a waiting list for a refundable $50 and would be considered next year when they open up the Farewell Program again. Others that were rejected were not made this offer.

One man said he spoke to the resort owner and he stated Wyndham was taking back very few units and that the resort intended to put the take back units in their rental pool.


----------



## md8287 (Apr 11, 2017)

I thought 24 hours was short but 10 minutes is a farce. 
Interesting that Smuggs rolled out new restrictions on owner rentals last year and then introduced a rent through Smuggs program and now Wyndham is buying some high demand weeks to rent?  Fishy.


----------



## WinniWoman (Apr 12, 2017)

md8287 said:


> I thought 24 hours was short but 10 minutes is a farce.
> Interesting that Smuggs rolled out new restrictions on owner rentals last year and then introduced a rent through Smuggs program and now Wyndham is buying some high demand weeks to rent?  Fishy.



I think it is Smuggs that is keeping the week/unitss to rent and Wyndham supposedly taking some weeks/units for it's owners/exchangers. Of course, if you can even believe what management has said.


----------

