# New "Founders Level" program for 1/1/20:  what do you think



## jerrybev (Sep 10, 2019)

hi
We and had a sales session this a.m. with Deborah Harvey from the Las Vegas office.  We are platinums with 1,359,000 points
She says if we up our points to 1.4 million points which we would need 41,000 points at cost of $10,400, we would be in the new "Founders Level  rogram" and get 800,000 bonus points each year.  (We could use those points to pay down  $1680 on our maint. fees which would take 7.5 years for us to break even on our $10,400 cost ---Assuming she was  100% correct, telling the truth).
What does the forum know and think?
thank you
Jerry Whitfield
Winston salem NC


----------



## davejulien (Sep 10, 2019)

They haven’t announced what “benefits” are going to be for Founders.  How can she say you will get 800k bonus points?  Sounds like a lie to get you to buy.

Besides the most likely lie it seems you are so close to Founders that you probably should upgrade.  I would NOT do it through a resort but rather do it through Corporate Sales.  You may get a better deal than $10k.  Corporate Sales can most likely get you to exactly the number of points you need without involving any extra in the purchase.  They also offer foreclosed points at a discount where the resorts do not.  Anyway, I would definitely call them first before even entertaining a resort purchase.

The Corporate Sales number is 800-786-6764.  You may need to leave a message and they will call you back.  I did this once and had to leave several messages but they eventually did call back.  I think I was calling them during a busy time just after the new system went in so maybe that was the issue.

Good luck.


----------



## davejulien (Sep 10, 2019)

BTW, did they happen to mention anything about Legend?  Just curious what the internal “talk” is for that even if it’s not true.  I’d be falling in the Legend bucket.  I don’t plan to buy 400k more points.


----------



## cbyrne1174 (Sep 10, 2019)

You could probably get  63,000 point package (126,000 Biennial) for $140 per thousand.


----------



## dgalati (Sep 10, 2019)

jerrybev said:


> hi
> We and had a sales session this a.m. with Deborah Harvey from the Las Vegas office.  We are platinums with 1,359,000 points
> She says if we up our points to 1.4 million points which we would need 41,000 points at cost of $10,400, we would be in the new "Founders Level  rogram" and get 800,000 bonus points each year.  (We could use those points to pay down  $1680 on our maint. fees which would take 7.5 years for us to break even on our $10,400 cost ---Assuming she was  100% correct, telling the truth).
> What does the forum know and think?
> ...


Sounds like more lies and double talk. Wyndham's math very seldom works out the way they tell you it does. Nothing written in stone about the new program. This new program with additional levels is a great marketing strategy to sell you more point even if you don't need them.


----------



## paxsarah (Sep 10, 2019)

The math is smoke and mirrors, but because you're so close to the proposed Founders level, this is a rare instance where I would say you probably seriously want to look into adding to your points to get there. But as others have said, corporate is probably the most economical way to do that.


----------



## dgalati (Sep 10, 2019)

paxsarah said:


> The math is smoke and mirrors, but because you're so close to the proposed Founders level, this is a rare instance where I would say you probably seriously want to look into adding to your points to get there. But as others have said, corporate is probably the most economical way to do that.


Wyndham math very rarely works out for the purchaser of a developer deed.


----------



## jerrybev (Sep 10, 2019)

Deborah Harvey said come Jan 1, all platinums will be in "Legends Program but there are no increased or new benefits.
Jerry


----------



## jerrybev (Sep 10, 2019)

I  should have been more clear.  We were told  Founders level offers one to book all the time, even a year out, at 60% discount.  However, to me, that is alarming because that puts increased demand on the same amount of inventory.

By the way, she said  that Wyndham has "bought into" AirBnB and wyndham timeshares will offer some VRBO/AirBnB residences in exchange for your points.

Come 1/1/20 all platinums will be in the "Legends program" but with no increased benefits.


----------



## bogey21 (Sep 10, 2019)

All this for only $10,400.  Wow!!

George


----------



## dgalati (Sep 10, 2019)

bogey21 said:


> All this for only $10,400.  Wow!!
> 
> George


Thats on the light side if you only need 41,000 points.


----------



## Jan M. (Sep 10, 2019)

Bonus points are a one time deal and you have two years to use them. You definitely don't get those points every year. I can't remember if you have to pay a maintenance fee on them.

Forget having those points pay for themselves with whatever cockamamie scheme they propose. It's total b.s. Renting out stays on your own is the only real way to offset your expenses. Being able to use the points for yourselves and your family is living your best life.

Since you have already spent a lot to be platinum, no criticism from me if you look at what we own, I would go for the 41k points you need to have for what will be the new highest level of ownership. However I would ask for a better price. It never hurts to ask and push a little. 

Were they proposing Club Wyndham Access points or deeded points at a resort with lower maintenance fees? Grand Desert maintenance fees are pretty good and buildings 1 and 2 are lower than building 3.


----------



## jerrybev (Sep 10, 2019)

I dont see how Wyndham can "devalue its currency" (time share points) by letting people book them  a year out, at 40 cents on the dollar"=60% discount.

Also, That seems to play into the hands of and benefit  the mega renters whom Wyndham says they have been trying to stop for a number of years now.

this lady says she is here in myrtle Beach  from Corporate Office in Las Vegas for 6 weeks.


----------



## dgalati (Sep 10, 2019)

jerrybev said:


> I dont see how Wyndham can "devalue its currency" (time share points) by letting people book them  a year out, at 40 cents on the dollar"=60% discount.
> 
> Also, That seems to play into the hands of and benefit  the mega renters whom Wyndham says they have been trying to stop for a number of years now.
> 
> this lady says she is here in myrtle Beach  from Corporate Office in Las Vegas for 6 weeks.


 Reality is very little value in the time share points system. That's why you see many deeds are given away for free on eBay. Worse yet many exit companies thrive and charge owners 2-5k to exit their ownership. Wyndham pays $0 with their Ovations program.


----------



## ecwinch (Sep 10, 2019)

I always believe ... if they lie about the small stuff, you know they are lying about the big stuff.


----------



## Braindead (Sep 10, 2019)

dgalati said:


> That's why you see many deeds are given away for free on eBay.


Please educate us with a few examples of FREE Wyndham points contracts on eBay
Or are you off topic as this thread is on Wyndham points??


----------



## dgalati (Sep 10, 2019)

jerrybev said:


> I dont see how Wyndham can "devalue its currency" (time share points) by letting people book them  a year out, at 40 cents on the dollar"=60% discount.
> 
> Also, That seems to play into the hands of and benefit  the mega renters whom Wyndham says they have been trying to stop for a number of years now.
> 
> this lady says she is here in myrtle Beach  from Corporate Office in Las Vegas for 6 weeks.


I like the  Idea of a VIP getting a  60% discount 12 months out. As a  Non Vip owner that rents from a Vip I would no longer have to wait to receive a 50% discount at the 60 day window. I can Taste the 60% savings now booking at a 12 month window. If this is true I will exit my ownership  And rent for 1/2  of a non Vip maintenance fees!


----------



## Braindead (Sep 10, 2019)

dgalati said:


> I like the  Idea of a VIP getting a  60% discount 12 months out. As a  Non Vip owner that rents from a Vip I would no longer have to wait to receive a 50% discount at the 60 day window. I can Taste the 60% savings now booking at a 12 month window. If this is true I will exit my ownership  And rent for 1/2  of a non Vip maintenance fees!


I’ve never understood why you rent from a VIP while you claim to get free contracts, strip the points & then sell the contracts to Wyndham in less than 4 months. 
If your claims are true, your already getting a 66.6% discount at a minimum. 
How would Founders discount at 60% beat what you already claim as fact??


----------



## Sandi Bo (Sep 10, 2019)

dgalati said:


> I like the  Idea of a VIP getting a  60% discount 12 months out. As a  Non Vip owner that rents from a Vip I would no longer have to wait to receive a 50% discount at the 60 day window. I can Taste the 60% savings now booking at a 12 month window. If this is true I will exit my ownership  And rent for 1/2  of a non Vip maintenance fees!


I'll believe it when I see it.  I say no way.   The only thing at this point, that I might bite at, is that there's going to be a new level (of 1.4M) that will be desirable to reach.  Being as close as OP is, if I could find a good (no great) deal on the points needed, I might go for it.   I also am skeptical it's necessary to buy now, rather than wait til the new program is actually rolls out and we really know what it is and what it offers.  I personally don't plan on doing anything based on what we've seen or heard thus far. Then again, I'm already over 1.4M.  Who knew when they oversold to my 80+ year old father that those extra 400K would come in handy some day. I had asked him to stop at 1M.


----------



## dgalati (Sep 10, 2019)

Sandi Bo said:


> I'll believe it when I see it.  I say no way.   The only thing at this point, that I might bite at, is that there's going to be a new level (of 1.4M) that will be desirable to reach.  Being as close as OP is, if I could find a good (no great) deal on the points needed, I might go for it.   I also am skeptical it's necessary to buy now, rather than wait til the new program is actually rolls out and we really know what it is and what it offers.  I personally don't plan on doing anything based on what we've seen or heard thus far. Then again, I'm already over 1.4M.  Who knew when they oversold to my 80+ year old father that those extra 400K would come in handy some day. I had asked him to stop at 1M.


I don't believe it either. You would be surprised how many buy into the BS, no pun intended. No one should buy before all details are fact and not just BS from a sales person trying to make a days pay with half truths and lies.


----------



## 55plus (Sep 10, 2019)

My parents bought 1.3 million points (now VIP Platinum) in the early '90s when it was Fairfield. I doubt Wyndham sales will allow a purchase of 1K point to move to the next level. I'm betting sales will have a minimum amounts of points one needs to purchase. And that amount will vary by sales weasel. In other, they lie to you to buy as much as they can get you to buy.

I'll consider it if I only need 1K points and I can get them cheap and the benefits are worth it. Otherwise, I'm happy where I'm at.


----------



## dgalati (Sep 10, 2019)

55plus said:


> My parents bought 1.3 million points (now VIP Platinum) in the early '90s when it was Fairfield. I doubt Wyndham sales will allow a purchase of 1K point to move to the next level. I'm betting sales will have a minimum amounts of points one needs to purchase. And that amount will vary by sales weasel. In other, they lie to you to buy as much as they can get you to buy.
> 
> I'll consider it if I only need 1K points and I can get them cheap and the benefits are worth it. Otherwise, I'm happy where I'm at.


If you are already at the top level today you more then likely will be grandfathered in. You would have to be brain dead to buy into the marketing strategy of new levels with more status or privilege if you are at the top already.


----------



## davejulien (Sep 10, 2019)

55plus said:


> I'm betting sales will have a minimum amounts of points one needs to purchase. And that amount will vary by sales weasel. In other, they lie to you to buy as much as they can get you to buy.
> 
> I'll consider it if I only need 1K points and I can get them cheap and the benefits are worth it. Otherwise, I'm happy where I'm at.



Call Corporate Sales and ask them.  They have a little more latitude then the resorts when it comes to selling points.   For instance they allowed me to purchase 1k more points to get to 1,001,000 points which gave me 15 more guest certificates.


----------



## dgalati (Sep 10, 2019)

davejulien said:


> Call Corporate Sales and ask them.  They have a little more latitude then the resorts when it comes to selling points.   For instance they allowed me to purchase 1k more points to get to 1,001,000 points which gave me 15 more guest certificates.


You mind me asking what was the price on the additional 1k and how long ago were they purchased ?


----------



## davejulien (Sep 10, 2019)

dgalati said:


> You mind me asking what was the price on the additional 1k and how long ago were they purchased ?



I purchased 127k points to be Platinum with 1k extra.  The cost was $147 per 1k points.  This was nearly 3 years ago.


----------



## dgalati (Sep 10, 2019)

davejulien said:


> I purchased 127k points to be Platinum with 1k extra.  The cost was $147 per 1k points.  This was nearly 3 years ago.


Under 20k not bad to bump up to Platinum. How long do you calculate the pay back on this last purchase?


----------



## davejulien (Sep 10, 2019)

dgalati said:


> Under 20k not bad to bump up to Platinum. How long do you calculate the pay back on this last purchase?



My mistake.  We purchased about 177k points.  I know our last purchase totaled around $26k with $147 being the cost per 1k points.

Anyway, how do you actually calculate the pay back?  There is no easy way that I know of.  The goal was since we got involved in this to go for the long haul.  We’re 50 years old right now so we have many many years of discounts and upgrades.  There are times and places that’s easy to book with 50% discount and upgrade.  For instance I’m thinking of staying all of January at Bonnet Creek in a 2 bedroom.  Last year it was so easy to book a 1 bed with upgrade for 63k points.  To stay all month will cost 252k or $1660.  To do the same with retail would cost 756k points or $4982 for a 2 bed all January.  So that’s a savings of $3322.  If I wasn’t going to Avon in February I’d see about staying for another month.  I’m an IT guy so I can work anywhere.

There are other things that make it worth it like being able to deposit points all the way until the end of the year.  This alone makes it so much easier to not lose points.

I kind of look at it if I had a second home it would be more expensive.  I’d be paying interest and maintenance over the years.  Taxes in a decent place might be at least 1/2 of what I’m paying in dues.  With this timeshare I can go anywhere.  Going to Vegas I can always get at 50%.  Going to Chicago in 2 weeks for 3 days with 50% discount.  I guess it’s all how you look at it.

The real kick in the teeth now is I’m in the middle of a divorce so that whole plan is shot out the window.  I’ll need to find someone to travel with.  Right now for January my mom seems interested.  Nothing better then being 50 traveling with your mom.  Lol.  Moving forward I’ll need to find someone that enjoys traveling.  My soon to be ex has said I can have the timeshare but allow her to purchase some vacations at cost.  I’m good with that.


----------



## dgalati (Sep 10, 2019)

davejulien said:


> My mistake.  We purchased about 177k points.  I know our last purchase totaled around $26k with $147 being the cost per 1k points.
> 
> Anyway, how do you actually calculate the pay back?  There is no easy way that I know of.  The goal was since we got involved in this to go for the long haul.  We’re 50 years old right now so we have many many years of discounts and upgrades.  There are times and places that’s easy to book with 50% discount and upgrade.  For instance I’m thinking of staying all of January at Bonnet Creek in a 2 bedroom.  Last year it was so easy to book a 1 bed with upgrade for 63k points.  To stay all month will cost 252k or $1660.  To do the same with retail would cost 756k points or $4982 for a 2 bed all January.  So that’s a savings of $3322.  If I wasn’t going to Avon in February I’d see about staying for another month.  I’m an IT guy so I can work anywhere.
> 
> ...


So sorry to hear about the divorce.  I was in Chicago 2 weeks ago. 1 bedroom. Great location. River walk nice and the architectural boat tour was worth every penny paid. Good luck moving forward and I am a believer in all things happen for a reason and hope it all works out.


----------



## chapjim (Sep 10, 2019)

jerrybev said:


> I  should have been more clear.  We were told  Founders level offers one to book all the time, even a year out, at 60% discount.  However, to me, that is alarming because that puts increased demand on the same amount of inventory.
> 
> By the way, she said  that Wyndham has "bought into" AirBnB and wyndham timeshares will offer some VRBO/AirBnB residences in exchange for your points.
> 
> Come 1/1/20 all platinums will be in the "Legends program" but with no increased benefits.



Deborah Harvey sounds like one of the more "inventive" Wyndham sales people we've heard of.


----------



## dgalati (Sep 10, 2019)

chapjim said:


> Deborah Harvey sounds like one of the more "inventive" Wyndham sales people we've heard of.


Paul Harvey's daughter Good day?


----------



## davejulien (Sep 10, 2019)

dgalati said:


> So sorry to hear about the divorce.  I was in Chicago 2 weeks ago. 1 bedroom. Great location. River walk nice and the architectural boat tour was worth every penny paid. Good luck moving forward and I am a believer in all things happen for a reason and hope it all works out.



Thanks for the condolences.  New roads are sure to be traveled.

I’ve been to Chicago many times but my mom hasn’t.  In fact she’s never been to many big cities before.  She mentioned going to New York but I explained just how big that is.  She settled on Chicago as a happy medium.  It’s closer too so that also makes it more appealing.

I’m keeping my fingers crossed for an upgrade.  Right now I have a studio.  Nearly all of my reservations have been upgraded this year so there still is hope.


----------



## dgalati (Sep 10, 2019)

davejulien said:


> Thanks for the condolences.  New roads are sure to be traveled.
> 
> I’ve been to Chicago many times but my mom hasn’t.  In fact she’s never been to many big cities before.  She mentioned going to New York but I explained just how big that is.  She settled on Chicago as a happy medium.  It’s closer too so that also makes it more appealing.
> 
> I’m keeping my fingers crossed for an upgrade.  Right now I have a studio.  Nearly all of my reservations have been upgraded this year so there still is hope.


New York Is a must trip for you to take her on. Do it while you can still travel with her. I regret not being able to take my dad on these travel's.


----------



## davejulien (Sep 10, 2019)

dgalati said:


> New York Is a must trip for you to take her on. Do it while you can still travel with her. I regret not being able to take my dad on these travel's.



Another issue with New York is I’ll be pushing her around in wheelchair around town.  I wouldn’t mind taking her but it would be very hard for her to get in-and-out of vehicles all the time.  Not to mention all the slopes and inclines in New York.  Chicago just seems to be a bit better under these circumstances.  I guess we’ll see how she does around Chicago and then maybe plan another trip if she enjoys this.


----------



## bendadin (Sep 10, 2019)

I think that the 800k is the 60% discount that you would get in your discount window. I've heard 60% at 60 days. That doesn't make me bite. 60% at 90 days out might be another story. It certainly isn't going to be from 13 months out.


----------



## Sandi Bo (Sep 10, 2019)

davejulien said:


> Another issue with New York is I’ll be pushing her around in wheelchair around town.  I wouldn’t mind taking her but it would be very hard for her to get in-and-out of vehicles all the time.  Not to mention all the slopes and inclines in New York.  Chicago just seems to be a bit better under these circumstances.  I guess we’ll see how she does around Chicago and then maybe plan another trip if she enjoys this.


We stayed at Midtown this summer.  Pushing a stroller (grand-daughter).  Not all curbs are handi-cap accessible.  Maybe 85%-90%.  Manageable with a stroller, was thankful I wasn't pushing a wheelchair. We've done that with my MIL several places, it can be challenging.  I'd probably still do it, but I was surprised.  I swear every corner around here has the ramps, but not NYC?  How can that be?   (Sorry, guess we're a little off topic).


----------



## dgalati (Sep 10, 2019)

bendadin said:


> I think that the 800k is the 60% discount that you would get in your discount window. I've heard 60% at 60 days. That doesn't make me bite. 60% at 90 days out might be another story. It certainly isn't going to be from 13 months out.



12 months out for a 60% discount. Make no mistake this was alot of BS to sell more developer points to a VIP that could not use or need. Another fine example of how Wyndham uses a marketing strategy to sell more developer points.


----------



## OutSkiing (Sep 10, 2019)

If the 60% discount were true, maybe that’s how she got to 800,000 ‘bonus’ points. 1.4mm x 60% discount = 840,000 additional points available for use every year.  I’ve listened to their BS so long I am beginning to think like them. 

I would wait for the actual benefits to be announced .. though being that close it would be tempting. 

If they did give such a discount, I agree they’d have to somehow prevent mega-renting by disallowing guest certificates on those reservations or something like that.  

Bob


----------



## Rolltydr (Sep 10, 2019)

davejulien said:


> My mistake.  We purchased about 177k points.  I know our last purchase totaled around $26k with $147 being the cost per 1k points.
> 
> Anyway, how do you actually calculate the pay back?  There is no easy way that I know of.  The goal was since we got involved in this to go for the long haul.  We’re 50 years old right now so we have many many years of discounts and upgrades.  There are times and places that’s easy to book with 50% discount and upgrade.  For instance I’m thinking of staying all of January at Bonnet Creek in a 2 bedroom.  Last year it was so easy to book a 1 bed with upgrade for 63k points.  To stay all month will cost 252k or $1660.  To do the same with retail would cost 756k points or $4982 for a 2 bed all January.  So that’s a savings of $3322.  If I wasn’t going to Avon in February I’d see about staying for another month.  I’m an IT guy so I can work anywhere.
> 
> ...


I agree with you. There are many things you can’t put a price tag on. My philosophy is, If we’re happy and can afford it, it pays for itself. I hope you find someone to travel with and enjoy many years of timeshare ownership.


----------



## JJVGHNC (Sep 10, 2019)

Rolltydr said:


> I agree with you. There are many things you can’t put a price tag on. My philosophy is, If we’re happy and can afford it, it pays for itself. I hope you find someone to travel with and enjoy many years of timeshare ownership.


At an update in August, we were told that we better buy up to Platinum before 8/31...or else we'd lose our chance.  We were told that the window for founders would be 63 days, kind of an odd number, I thought, and there would be 60% discount.
We didn't buy.
At another update last week, we were told the window for founders would be 75 days, and the discount would be 70%!  They mentioned the discount for WM properties that will come with founders, and when I asked what they discount would be, they said 70% also, which would be huge benefit.
No mention of bonus points.  And nothing in writing, we still didn't buy, will wait and see.


----------



## kaljor (Sep 11, 2019)

I always get a kick out of these long discussions that are begun by nothing more than a rumor.  Whatever a sales person tells you about a future program or program change is nothing more than a rumor.  I acknowledge that there are changes coming to what we currently know as the VIP program, but the sales force is not given any solid information until it's official.  And we will know when it's official because Wyndham will tell us. In fact we already know the basic outlines due to some leaked Wyndham documents; there will be two additional tiers of VIP (regardless of what they call it) and most or all of the current VIP entitlements will be grandfathered.  Until the program change is actually announced, everything a sales person tells you about it has only one goal and that is to make you buy more points. And they will make up anything they think they need to in order to get you to buy.

But as for the original poster, if I were that close to the new rumored highest tier,  I would buy up to meet it before the program is announced.  But I don't believe that would entitle you to an additional 800k points per year.  And most of the experienced Wyndham owners here have expressed the same opinion.


----------



## antjmar (Sep 11, 2019)

How are you using your existing points? Each of us have different vacation schedules. I use my arp to book a summer vacation in a 3br for about 10 nights. Since only 1 four BR exists I doubt I’d get an upgrade. In fact the salesman was actually honest and agreed that based on how I travel Upgrades are very unlikely. I also book presidents week in a 2 bedroom at a ski resort. That’s the largest unit at this resort. Since I have a family of 5 and usually need a 2 bedroom I can’t risk booking a smaller unit during prime vacation times and hope I get upgraded.
Also timeshares aren’t the only way to travel. I often see better deals during off peak dates via other websites, not to mention several VIPs renting at slightly above the 50% discount. IMO for my situation even $10k is too much.


----------



## 55plus (Sep 11, 2019)

Rolltydr said:


> I agree with you. There are many things you can’t put a price tag on. My philosophy is, If we’re happy and can afford it, it pays for itself. I hope you find someone to travel with and enjoy many years of timeshare ownership.


A VIP ownership can pay for itself if you use it efficiently. The way to do it is to work through the learning curve, understand the system, learn the ins and outs and plan ahead. The key is to keep it longterm and take advantage of and maximize the VIP benefits. Our VIP Platinum ownership is twenty-five years old and has paid for itself many times over.


----------



## dgalati (Sep 11, 2019)

55plus said:


> A VIP ownership can pay for itself if you use it efficiently. The way to do it is to work through the learning curve, understand the system, learn the ins and outs and plan ahead. The key is to keep it longterm and take advantage of and maximize the VIP benefits. Our VIP Platinum ownership is twenty-five years old and has paid for itself many times over.


If you don't  mind me asking What was price paid 25 years ago?


----------



## 55plus (Sep 11, 2019)

From the documents I have and from what my parents told me it was $30K for the initial 1M points. They added more points a few years later. That's when it was Fairfield and the point system was new. There weren't many resort locations either. In today's (2019) dollars with inflation $30K equates to $59K. Wyndham more than doubled the inflation rate of the cost of their product. What we have sells for well over $100K today.


----------



## Rolltydr (Sep 11, 2019)

55plus said:


> A VIP ownership can pay for itself if you use it efficiently. The way to do it is to work through the learning curve, understand the system, learn the ins and outs and plan ahead. The key is to keep it longterm and take advantage of and maximize the VIP benefits. Our VIP Platinum ownership is twenty-five years old and has paid for itself many times over.



Again, there are many things you can’t put a price tag on. Time away with family, rest and relaxation, enjoying the beach, mountains, cities with great restaurants, resorts, etc. I’m retired and I don’t want to spend my time doing accounting to try and figure out if I’m going to break even at some point in the future. For those  that are renting out their points and trying to make a profit, great, go for it. That’s not for me. I purchased my timeshare to enjoy it with my family. It pays for itself every time we take a trip.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## HitchHiker71 (Sep 11, 2019)

dgalati said:


> 12 months out for a 60% discount. Make no mistake this was alot of BS to sell more developer points to a VIP that could not use or need. Another fine example of how Wyndham uses a marketing strategy to sell more developer points.



I think there's a lot of rumors being bandied about for upleveled VIP benefits.  One of the items I've repeatedly suggested to several higher ups within Wyndham is a program to grant limited advanced booking benefits at a discount, based upon VIP tier.  This is actually under consideration from what I've been told, which is probably filtering down to the masses via the rumor mill on some level.  One of the many suggestions we've submitted is an VIP advanced booking program such as:

Advantage:  none outside of the standard 15% 60 day discount window benefit
Ambassador:  25% for up to one standard (10 month) booking per use year
Champion:  35% for up to one standard (10 month) booking per use year, 35% for up to one advance (ARP) booking per use year
Legends:  50% for up to two standard (10 month) bookings per use year, 50% for up to two advance (ARP) bookings per use year
Founders:  60% for up to four standard (10 month) bookings per use year, 60% for up to four advance (ARP) bookings per use year

None of the above would replace the standard 60 day discount window booking benefits.  We've also suggested similar upgraded benefits for free room upgrades.


----------



## Braindead (Sep 11, 2019)

55plus said:


> A VIP ownership can pay for itself if you use it efficiently. The way to do it is to work through the learning curve, understand the system, learn the ins and outs and plan ahead. The key is to keep it longterm and take advantage of and maximize the VIP benefits. Our VIP Platinum ownership is twenty-five years old and has paid for itself many times over.





dgalati said:


> If you don't  mind me asking What was price paid 25 years ago?


This is actually a very good point that nobody has talked about for a VIP account to pay for itself.
Everyone wants to use todays points cost & MFs to figure how long it takes for a VIP account to pay for itself
A VIP has a fixed cost of their buy in, in this case 25 years ago
As MFs increase a VIPs savings increase but their fixed buy in cost remains the same amount
So in actuality a VIP has a better deal every year as MFs increase.

You take what 55plus VIP Platinum account cost 25 years ago verses what MFs are today, 55plus VIPP account might be paying for itself every couple of years. In other words as they state it’s paid for itself many times over not 1 or 2 times


----------



## dgalati (Sep 11, 2019)

Rolltydr said:


> Again, there are many things you can’t put a price tag on. Time away with family, rest and relaxation, enjoying the beach, mountains, cities with great restaurants, resorts, etc. I’m retired and I don’t want to spend my time doing accounting to try and figure out if I’m going to break even at some point in the future. For those  that are renting out their points and trying to make a profit, great, go for it. That’s not for me. I purchased my timeshare to enjoy it with my family. It pays for itself every time we take a trip.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I call this balance. As you get older money is not as important as the time spent enjoying traveling. I spent the first 15-20 years of marriage not taking many vacations. The last 10 years I have gone on 7-10 a year. Long weekends or for a week at a time. The Wyndham system has helped me travel to places I may of never been. At a lower price then a hotel room.  Thanks to my Uncle who bought in VIP  and introduced me to the Wyndham resorts. I like the 1 bedroom with kitchen. I try not to stay in a small hotel room at double the cost.


----------



## chapjim (Sep 11, 2019)

jerrybev said:


> hi
> We and had a sales session this a.m. with Deborah Harvey from the Las Vegas office.  We are platinums with 1,359,000 points
> She says if we up our points to 1.4 million points which we would need 41,000 points at cost of $10,400, we would be in the new "Founders Level  rogram" and get 800,000 bonus points each year.  (We could use those points to pay down  $1680 on our maint. fees which would take 7.5 years for us to break even on our $10,400 cost ---Assuming she was  100% correct, telling the truth).
> What does the forum know and think?
> ...



The only part of this "deal" that I would believe is $10,400 for 41,000 points.  Whether that is a good deal is subjective -- how badly do you want to bump up to the next level, and what is your next best use of $10 thousand.  The rest sounds like "puffing" from a salesperson.


----------



## dgalati (Sep 11, 2019)

Braindead said:


> This is actually a very good point that nobody has talked about for a VIP account to pay for itself.
> Everyone wants to use todays points cost & MFs to figure how long it takes for a VIP account to pay for itself
> A VIP has a fixed cost of their buy in, in this case 25 years ago
> As MFs increase a VIPs savings increase but their fixed buy in cost remains the same amount
> ...


I disagree As maintenance fees increase its not a better deal for anyone. I think I heard this line at a owners update. You may have sat through to many updates and became Brain Washed. So If I buy today at $150-200 per 1000 points in 25 years I will look back and say this was a great investment? Even if maintenance fees double over the next 25 years will I still see a 50-100% return on my original investment every couple of years. Sounds like Wyndham math to me.


----------



## Braindead (Sep 11, 2019)

dgalati said:


> I disagree As maintenance fees increase its not a better deal for anyone. I think I heard this line at a owners update. You may have sat through to many updates and became Brain Washed. So If I buy today at $150-200 per 1000 points in 25 years I will look back and say this was a great investment? Even if maintenance fees double over the next 25 years will I still see a 50-100% return on my original investment every couple of years. Sounds like Wyndham math to me.


On 1,000,000 points in a VIPP account 
Let’s say 25 years ago MFs were $2 per 1k points
50% discount saved you $1,000 a year

Let’s say today MFs are $6 per 1k points
50% discount saves you $3,000 a year

Throw upgrades in & the difference increases.

How’s that brain washed?? Or Wyndham math?? 
Today that VIPP account is paying for itself AGAIN 3 times faster than when it was purchased


----------



## 55plus (Sep 11, 2019)

dgalati said:


> I disagree As maintenance fees increase its not a better deal for anyone. I think I heard this line at a owners update. You may have sat through to many updates and became Brain Washed. So If I buy today at $150-200 per 1000 points in 25 years I will look back and say this was a great investment? Even if maintenance fees double over the next 25 years will I still see a 50-100% return on my original investment every couple of years. Sounds like Wyndham math to me.


As I look back over the years, maintenance fee have generally increased at the same rate as inflation - some slightly more, some slightly less. Factoring inflation, maintenance fees have not increased over the years. Our maintenance fees have increased by approximately by 50% since 1995, which is the inflation rate for that timeframe.


----------



## 55plus (Sep 11, 2019)

What has increased way above the rate of inflation is the cost per 1000 points. My parents bought in at $30/1000 points. What's it now? How much per 1000?


----------



## bendadin (Sep 11, 2019)

55plus said:


> What has increased way above the rate of inflation is the cost per 1000 points. My parents bought in at $30/1000 points. What's it now? How much per 1000?



$253/k


----------



## Braindead (Sep 11, 2019)

Today with resells, throw a couple million resell points on there & the pay back is another 3 times faster


----------



## dgalati (Sep 11, 2019)

Braindead said:


> Today with resells, throw a couple million resell points on there & the pay back is another 3 times faster


What is the cost on resale points? Pennies on the dollars? When Wyndham excludes resale points from counting on VIP benefits then what?


----------



## dgalati (Sep 11, 2019)

Braindead said:


> Today with resells, throw a couple million resell points on there & the pay back is another 3 times faster


I like the no commitment of buying or paying maintenance fees. If I can make it work for me and rent from VIP and receive the discounts  without paying monthly maintenance fees what would you calculate my pay back on investment? Why own if I can rent from a VIP at pretty close to a VIP'S cost without the investment of buying?


----------



## dgalati (Sep 11, 2019)

Braindead said:


> Today with resells, throw a couple million resell points on there & the pay back is another 3 times faster


Wyndham math you can rent the points at cost and pay all maintenance fees.


----------



## dgalati (Sep 11, 2019)

Braindead said:


> On 1,000,000 points in a VIPP account
> Let’s say 25 years ago MFs were $2 per 1k points
> 50% discount saved you $1,000 a year
> 
> ...


A agent of Wyndham couldn't sell it better then you. If it works for you great. It just dosent add up for me.


----------



## dgalati (Sep 11, 2019)

bendadin said:


> $253/k


Does that include closing and transfer fees?


----------



## dgalati (Sep 11, 2019)

55plus said:


> What has increased way above the rate of inflation is the cost per 1000 points. My parents bought in at $30/1000 points. What's it now? How much per 1000?


Almost 8x plus


----------



## Braindead (Sep 11, 2019)

dgalati said:


> A agent of Wyndham couldn't sell it better then you. If it works for you great. It just dosent add up for me.


You show your true colors by reverting to name calling or insinuating since you can’t dispel my math!!
Go ahead & add some more, so far it’s a:
Sales rep — I think I heard that line at a owners update
Brain washed
Wyndham math
Agent of Wyndham

Anything else you’d like to add in one thread??


----------



## dgalati (Sep 11, 2019)

Braindead said:


> You show your true colors by reverting to name calling or insinuating since you can’t dispel my math!!
> Go ahead & add some more, so far it’s a:
> Sales rep — I think I heard that line at a owners update
> Brain washed
> ...


Sorry my intent wasn't intended to offend anyone.


----------



## spackler (Sep 11, 2019)

You two need to get a room.


----------



## stevenh21 (Sep 11, 2019)

55plus said:


> My parents bought 1.3 million points (now VIP Platinum) in the early '90s when it was Fairfield. I doubt Wyndham sales will allow a purchase of 1K point to move to the next level. I'm betting sales will have a minimum amounts of points one needs to purchase. And that amount will vary by sales weasel. In other, they lie to you to buy as much as they can get you to buy.
> 
> I'll consider it if I only need 1K points and I can get them cheap and the benefits are worth it. Otherwise, I'm happy where I'm at.


Mistake in the math. To get from 1.3 million points to 1.4 million, one would need to purchase 100,000 or 100K points. I'm surprised no one pointed this out.


----------



## 55plus (Sep 11, 2019)

stevenh21 said:


> Mistake in the math. To get from 1.3 million points to 1.4 million, one would need to purchase 100,000 or 100K points. I'm surprised no one pointed this out.


You are correct; my bad...


----------



## Richelle (Sep 11, 2019)

spackler said:


> You two need to get a room.



Or a time out.


----------



## T-Dot-Traveller (Sep 11, 2019)

Sandi Bo said:


> I'll believe it when I see it.  I say no way...... Then again, I'm already over 1.4M.  Who knew when they oversold to my 80+ year old father that those extra 400K would come in handy some day. I had asked him to stop at 1M.



see those TS sales folks are always looking out for - “your future best interest “.
LOL

I hope the car he was driving at 80+ stopped faster .


----------



## jerrybev (Sep 13, 2019)

hi
I started this thread about the Founders  Program.  I have a request:  if anyone has bought the Founders program, what were you promised and what did you receive from Wyndham after you paid?  Thank you for your input. 
Jerry Whitfield


----------



## jerrybev (Sep 13, 2019)

hi
what were you promised verbally and what  was promised in writing in the paperwork you received after your purchase?  Also would you like to publish the defining page(s) of the paperwork you were given?
thank you
Jerry Whitfield


----------



## Braindead (Sep 13, 2019)

There isn’t a current Founders level of VIP benefits
All we & or sales know for sure at this time is it will be a minimum of 1,400,000 points of developer credit to get the Founders VIP benefits
Everything else is pure speculation by us & sales so you will not see any other specifics in a contract or anything in writing from Wyndham at this time


----------



## chapjim (Sep 13, 2019)

jerrybev said:


> hi
> I started this thread about the Founders  Program.  I have a request:  if anyone has bought the Founders program, what were you promised and what did you receive from Wyndham after you paid?  Thank you for your input.
> Jerry Whitfield



There's nothing to buy (except points in anticipation of something happening).  The Founder's Program is still in the ether.


----------



## Braindead (Sep 13, 2019)

jerrybev said:


> hi
> what were you promised verbally and what  was promised in writing in the paperwork you received after your purchase?  Also would you like to publish the defining page(s) of the paperwork you were given?
> thank you
> Jerry Whitfield


I can give you a few guarantees of what’s in current & future purchase agreements-contracts.
1. Any verbal representations made are not binding
2. Wyndham is not liable for any verbal representations made
3. VIP benefits this will include Founders are not guaranteed
4. VIP benefits are subject to change
5. VIP levels are subject to change

Not exact wording of course but you should get the drift. Not a single thing a sales rep says is binding


----------



## Normita (Sep 13, 2019)

Maybe someone should be nominated to attend the Wyndham Annual Meeting in Austin TX on November 7 and ask these pointed questions.  I believe that one can sign up for the Podcast, (or at least it was possible in previous years) so we can all hear the answers.


----------



## dgalati (Sep 13, 2019)

chapjim said:


> There's nothing to buy (except points in anticipation of something happening).  The Founder's Program is still in the ether.


Its a marketing strategy to sell more points. Nothing has been finalized its a great way to hoodwink more into buying more points that they can possibly use.


----------



## 55plus (Sep 13, 2019)

dgalati said:


> Its a marketing strategy to sell more points. Nothing has been finalized its a great way to hoodwink more into buying more points that they can possibly use.


So true, so very true!


----------



## Richelle (Sep 14, 2019)

Normita said:


> Maybe someone should be nominated to attend the Wyndham Annual Meeting in Austin TX on November 7 and ask these pointed questions.  I believe that one can sign up for the Podcast, (or at least it was possible in previous years) so we can all hear the answers.



They ask for your questions ahead of time when you registered.  They will likely discuss the new program.  However, we might not learn anymore then we already know.  You can bet they weeded out the questions that they cannot, or do not want to answer. 

They didn't live stream it last year. It was a pretty small meeting.  About 100 people.


----------



## jules54 (Sep 15, 2019)

Spoke to a Wyndham corporate employee last week about a different issue I was having. I asked her about the new program. She said yes there was a program in the works that would add an extra level Founders as others have said. She also said program won't be rolled out till late 2020. All point owners in the VIP levels will be grandfathered although names of levels will change, For owners who are trying to reach the VIP levels the points will go up to get there.


----------



## dgalati (Sep 15, 2019)

jules54 said:


> Spoke to a Wyndham corporate employee last week about a different issue I was having. I asked her about the new program. She said yes there was a program in the works that would add an extra level Founders as others have said. She also said program won't be rolled out till late 2020. All point owners in the VIP levels will be grandfathered although names of levels will change, For owners who are trying to reach the VIP levels the points will go up to get there.


Great strategy on Wyndham`s part to sell more points. Getting in on the old VIP benefits before you know all the facts is the sales scare tactic to hoodwink you into buying more before its to late.


----------



## Braindead (Sep 15, 2019)

dgalati said:


> before you know all the facts is the sales scare tactic to hoodwink you into buying more before its to late.


Do you know all of the facts of the new VIP benefits??
If not your comments are as premature as sales reps.
It’s all going to be hindsight if your better off to buy now or a year from now


----------



## dgalati (Sep 15, 2019)

Braindead said:


> Do you know all of the facts of the new VIP benefits??
> If not your comments are as premature as sales reps.
> It’s all going to be hindsight if your better off to buy now or a year from now


Yes you are correct its better to buy before all values are changed. It is just a great strategy for Wyndham to sell more points. I see no benefit to existing owners as they will be grandfathered in, unless they buy up to next level and they can use the added benefits.


----------



## Braindead (Sep 15, 2019)

dgalati said:


> Yes you are correct its better to buy before all values are changed.


Where did I say that??
Do you know what hindsight is?? Or Monday quarterbacking ??


----------



## HitchHiker71 (Sep 18, 2019)

Normita said:


> Maybe someone should be nominated to attend the Wyndham Annual Meeting in Austin TX on November 7 and ask these pointed questions.  I believe that one can sign up for the Podcast, (or at least it was possible in previous years) so we can all hear the answers.



Richelle and I are both currently planning to attend the owner's meeting in Austin in early November. We will be bringing a number of the ideas and feedback regarding the Privileges program from these threads to the owner's meeting.


----------



## HitchHiker71 (Sep 18, 2019)

dgalati said:


> Yes you are correct its better to buy before all values are changed. It is just a great strategy for Wyndham to sell more points. I see no benefit to existing owners as they will be grandfathered in, unless they buy up to next level and they can use the added benefits.



For the current VIP owners who will be grandfathered, and who may be considering upgrading to the next higher tier, they will definitely be worse off if they wait.  For example, I currently own 718k developer VIP program eligible points.  I'm currently temp VIPP through Sept 2020, permanent VIPG.  If I were to decide to upgrade to VIPP permanent, today I would have to acquire 283k additional developer points at a minimum.  If I were to wait until the Privileges program is released, I would have to purchase 383k points minimum.  Assuming an average cost of $145/1000 - that's an additional $14,500 points, simply because I chose to wait.  That's a significant sum of money to me.


----------



## dgalati (Sep 18, 2019)

HitchHiker71 said:


> For the current VIP owners who will be grandfathered, and who may be considering upgrading to the next higher tier, they will definitely be worse off if they wait.  For example, I currently own 718k developer VIP program eligible points.  I'm currently temp VIPP through Sept 2020, permanent VIPG.  If I were to decide to upgrade to VIPP permanent, today I would have to acquire 283k additional developer points at a minimum.  If I were to wait until the Privileges program is released, I would have to purchase 383k points minimum.  Assuming an average cost of $145/1000 - that's an additional $14,500 points, simply because I chose to wait.  That's a significant sum of money to me.


 I agree if you're that close and you could justify the additional sunk cost and you utilize it to the fullest you can make it work for your situation.


HitchHiker71 said:


> For the current VIP owners who will be grandfathered, and who may be considering upgrading to the next higher tier, they will definitely be worse off if they wait.  For example, I currently own 718k developer VIP program eligible points.  I'm currently temp VIPP through Sept 2020, permanent VIPG.  If I were to decide to upgrade to VIPP permanent, today I would have to acquire 283k additional developer points at a minimum.  If I were to wait until the Privileges program is released, I would have to purchase 383k points minimum.  Assuming an average cost of $145/1000 - that's an additional $14,500 points, simply because I chose to wait.  That's a significant sum of money to me.


----------



## Braindead (Sep 18, 2019)

dgalati said:


> Great strategy on Wyndham`s part to sell more points. Getting in on the old VIP benefits before you know all the facts is the sales scare tactic to hoodwink you into buying more before its to late.





dgalati said:


> unless they buy up to next level and they can use the added benefits.





dgalati said:


> I agree if you're that close and you could justify the additional sunk cost and you utilize it to the fullest you can make it work for your situation.


The wind must of changed direction as the flip flopper is back


----------



## MSMS (Dec 11, 2019)

I was given the corporate pitch a day ago. I'm a lowly Silver at 420,000 so this is what they emphasized for me: Silver currently 400,000 will become Champion at 500,000 / Gold 700,000 will be Ambassador at 800,000 / Platinum 1M will be Legend (sorry didn't write down the amount). I'll be grandfathered in as Silver but the sales pitch was to get me to Gold before January when the new tier takes effect. I was promised my very own agent to deal with for everything...my sales person, of course. Not sure I believe this but who knows. I guess I'll have to be satisfied with Silver as I really don't have time for this right now as it's basically a lifestyle that doesn't currently suit mine. I was offered 280,000  at .14 cents per point plus some bonus points. Attractive...just to get the feel of Gold!


----------



## SNA27 (Dec 11, 2019)

800k bonus points every year!
Ooooh! As a Founder's level owner with 1.425M points, bring it to me, baby!

But I bet that was a lie!

t's just an imputed savings of 60% of 1.4 Million!


----------



## bestpal38 (Dec 12, 2019)

Braindead said:


> Please educate us with a few examples of FREE Wyndham points contracts on eBay
> Or are you off topic as this thread is on Wyndham points??


I got 126,000 odd year points at Royal sea gardens. Out the door price.....Free Timesharenation.com


----------



## Richelle (Dec 12, 2019)

bestpal38 said:


> I got 126,000 odd year points at Royal sea gardens. Out the door price.....Free Timesharenation.com



That’s not eBay. They asked for examples on eBay.


----------



## bestpal38 (Dec 12, 2019)

Richelle said:


> That’s not eBay. They asked for examples on eBay.


Oh sorry, thought they wanted any examples, my bad


----------

