# Westin Kierland



## jabak5 (Apr 9, 2016)

Looking to purchase resale at Westin Kierland some day.  Want 81k staroptions.
1 or 2 bedroom.  High or low season.
Question: are property taxes part of Maintenace fee or are they paid to county directly by owner.
Opinions/suggestions, is title insurance necessary, estoppel necessary?
 Is it best to try to purchase through a real estate agent or private party?
Thx in advance for comments / suggestions.


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## Helios (Apr 9, 2016)

jabak5 said:


> Looking to purchase resale at Westin Kierland some day.  Want 81k staroptions.
> 1 or 2 bedroom.  High or low season.
> Question: are property taxes part of Maintenace fee or are they paid to county directly by owner.
> Opinions/suggestions, is title insurance necessary, estoppel necessary?
> ...



1. Included in MF bill
2. No, but you should probably get the estoppel to know with certainty what you are getting
3. It depends


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## cubigbird (Apr 9, 2016)

jabak5 said:


> Looking to purchase resale at Westin Kierland some day.  Want 81k staroptions.
> 1 or 2 bedroom.  High or low season.
> Question: are property taxes part of Maintenace fee or are they paid to county directly by owner.
> Opinions/suggestions, is title insurance necessary, estoppel necessary?
> ...



Staroptions are Staroptions.  It really depends on when and where you want to go because 81k might not be enough.  81k Kierland weeks can be bought on EBay.  They come up often.


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## DeniseM (Apr 9, 2016)

It's really not important whether you buy from an individual or broker, what's important is doing your own due diligence before you buy.

It's critical to get a Starwood estoppel (Resale Information Sheet) otherwise you won't have verification of what you bought until AFTER it's in your name.

It's also important to use a reputable closing company, but many times a reseller wants to use their affiliated closing company, because the closing fees are another source of income for them, so they won't let you choose the closing Co.

Buying from a* reputable* broker can be very helpful, because they can walk you through the process, but will usually cost more.  (But not all brokers are reputable.)

Buying from a private owner is usually cheaper, but you will have to bird dog the process yourself.  A reputable closing company can be a great help with this.


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## pacman777 (Apr 9, 2016)

DeniseM said:


> It's really not important whether you buy from an individual or broker, what's important is doing your own due diligence before you buy.
> 
> It's critical to get a Starwood estoppel (Resale Information Sheet) otherwise you won't have verification of what you bought until AFTER it's in your name.
> 
> ...




Isn't it the closing company's job to get the estoppel as part of the closing process to make sure it matches what is in the sales agreement? Not sure if Starwood provides estoppels to individuals.  I've bought many timeshares from individual owners and have used LT Transfers to coordinate and draft the sales contract as well as performing the closing. They do an awesome job at bargain price and are much more responsive and quicker in getting the sale closed and transferred compared to the other companies that charge 2 to 3 times as much.


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## DeniseM (Apr 9, 2016)

pacman777 said:


> Isn't it the closing company's job to get the estoppel as part of the closing process to make sure it matches what is in the sales agreement? Not sure if Starwood provides estoppels to individuals.  I've bought many timeshares from individual owners and have used LT Transfers to coordinate and draft the sales contract as well as performing the closing. They do an awesome job at bargain price and are much more responsive and quicker in getting the sale closed and transferred compared to the other companies that charge 2 to 3 times as much.



It is the closing company's job, but I mentioned it because some of the flakier resellers do not want to bother with an estoppel (or even falsify the estoppel)  and you have to insist on it.


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## cubigbird (Apr 10, 2016)

DeniseM said:


> It is the closing company's job, but I mentioned it because some of the flakier resellers do not want to bother with an estoppel (or even falsify the estoppel)  and you have to insist on it.



If you use LT transfers they do it automatically.  I used them for one of my transfers and they were in process of obtaining the estoppel before I even asked.


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## jabak5 (Apr 11, 2016)

Thanks for all the responses and input.


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## Sunnydude (Apr 12, 2016)

We had a deal on our TS and were going to use LT Transfers.  As stated, they were great and had the estoppel even though the buyer backed out.


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## dspring (Apr 14, 2016)

Just spent a lovely week at Kierland - properly looked great and had a great time.  Went to the owner update.  Nothing new on the sale/mergers.  They tried to pitch some Kierland units that came up.  Large 1 every year gold season for $15k + 93k points + options to buy 110k star options for + $2275 x 4.  We declined but the sales person peaked my interest.  She said the gold season large trades as well as platinum large 1 br on II and since it is a premium 1br it is easy to upgrade to 2 BR....so good to use as a trader.  Small 1br is not such a good trader.  I did a quick look on Redweek and saw large 1br gold for $1-2k. Platinum 1 BR's were $9-10k.  Going to Kierland in the fall could be nice and I like it a lot better that SDO. Would be interested in your the thoughts of a gold as a trader?  Also, I used to consider my star points to be worth $3-4 but with the hotel devaluation, now more like $2. She said 80k transfer to an airline + the 20k match buys a business class ticket to Europe or Asia that would cost $5k.  Has anyone done that?


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## Ken555 (Apr 15, 2016)

dspring said:


> Just spent a lovely week at Kierland - properly looked great and had a great time.  Went to the owner update.  Nothing new on the sale/mergers.  They tried to pitch some Kierland units that came up.  Large 1 every year gold season for $15k + 93k points + options to buy 110k star options for + $2275 x 4.  We declined but the sales person peaked my interest.  She said the gold season large trades as well as platinum large 1 br on II and since it is a premium 1br it is easy to upgrade to 2 BR....so good to use as a trader.  Small 1br is not such a good trader.  I did a quick look on Redweek and saw large 1br gold for $1-2k. Platinum 1 BR's were $9-10k.  Going to Kierland in the fall could be nice and I like it a lot better that SDO. Would be interested in your the thoughts of a gold as a trader?  Also, I used to consider my star points to be worth $3-4 but with the hotel devaluation, now more like $2. She said 80k transfer to an airline + the 20k match buys a business class ticket to Europe or Asia that would cost $5k.  Has anyone done that?





SDO trades as well as WKV and you can find them for free, or close to it. However, we have no idea how any of them will trade in future due to the acquisition of SVN by II.

Lots of threads here about converting starpoints to airline miles. It works for some. Personally, I think the cost of the hotel is likely more than the flight and I'd rather mitigate that cost (however, I'm still burning through airline miles, so perhaps my perspective is different). In my experience the hotel for a European trip are more expensive than the flight.


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## vacationtime1 (Apr 15, 2016)

Ken555 said:


> SDO trades as well as WKV and you can find them for free, or close to it. However, we have no idea how any of them will trade in future due to the acquisition of SVN by II.
> 
> . . . .



I agree with Ken here, but one can also find cheap WKV units (e.g. a 37000 StarOption one bedroom annual gold plus [shoulder season]).  Mine cost   < $700 including closing costs.

If/when Starwood stops depositing units I want into Interval, I will at least have StarOptions I can still use that have reasonable MF's (currently $562).


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## Ken555 (Apr 15, 2016)

vacationtime1 said:


> I agree with Ken here, but one can also find cheap WKV units (e.g. a 37000 StarOption one bedroom annual gold plus [shoulder season]).  Mine cost   < $700 including closing costs.
> 
> If/when Starwood stops depositing units I want into Interval, I will at least have StarOptions I can still use that have reasonable MF's (currently $562).





Yes, but you can't get much at all with just 37,000.


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## vacationtime1 (Apr 15, 2016)

Ken555 said:


> Yes, but you can't get much at all with just 37,000.



It's not enough for a trip by itself.  But when added to a 81000 or 67100 StarOption unit, it extends a Hawaii trip for 3-4 days (in a one bedroom).  That's not a bad result for the $562 MF if you cannot get a good trade.


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## elleny76 (Apr 15, 2016)

It seems  37k can get us studio for famly of 4 in low season in cancun  lagunamar... January 1st for us




Ken555 said:


> Yes, but you can't get much at all with just 37,000.


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## elleny76 (Apr 15, 2016)

Check the bargain forum here in tugbbs . Someone is giving away EOY 67k and 37K  for a very inexpensive price.





jabak5 said:


> Looking to purchase resale at Westin Kierland some day.  Want 81k staroptions.
> 1 or 2 bedroom.  High or low season.
> Question: are property taxes part of Maintenace fee or are they paid to county directly by owner.
> Opinions/suggestions, is title insurance necessary, estoppel necessary?
> ...


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## VacationForever (Apr 15, 2016)

elleny76 said:


> It seems  37k can get us studio for famly of 4 in low season in cancun  lagunamar... January 1st for us



The studio side is very small.  I just checked their website and while it does show that you can have 4 in the room,  I wouldn't do that.


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## dspring (Apr 15, 2016)

I'm a 5 star elite and own in Maui and Kierland and have felt they are not good value II trades so I have been using them or renting them.  Wish I new about TUG before I bought all those from the developer... Oh well, it,s been 12 years of wonderful vacations.  I have bought all platinum because you get more points for the same monthly fee.  Like Ken, I have been using FF miles or deals like the Alaska AA credit card companion pass and tolerating economy.  The biz class splurge might be a nice treat.  I also like the philosophy of buy where you want to stay and SDO seems like an apartment complex vs the very nice Kierland resort.  Regarding small 1br gold vs large 1br gold - does the large 1br have significantly better trading power on II?


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## elleny76 (Apr 15, 2016)

We have toddlers and when asked they said it was fine. 2 adults and 2 toddlers under 5y/o.







sptung said:


> You cannot squeeze 4 into a studio at WLR.  The studio side is very small.


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## Ken555 (Apr 15, 2016)

elleny76 said:


> It seems  37k can get us studio for famly of 4 in low season in cancun  lagunamar... January 1st for us




That's the argument timeshare sales would make about the flexibility of SO. However, we know the reality is that few acceptable options exist for using 37k. 

Good luck squeezing four in a studio. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Ken555 (Apr 15, 2016)

elleny76 said:


> We have toddlers and when asked they said it was fine. 2 adults and 2 toddlers under 5y/o.




Come back in a few years and let us know how the studio is doing for you then. Good luck!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Ken555 (Apr 15, 2016)

elleny76 said:


> Check the bargain forum here in tugbbs . Someone is giving away EOY 67k and 37K  for a very inexpensive price.




The real cost is with the annual mf. Buying a deed is easy, but if you plan on keeping it for ~10 years or longer it's likely best to get a 148k week. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## elleny76 (Apr 15, 2016)

I own more than 37k but  also own 4 more TS so for now until they are 10yo we can live with 37k in cancun_studio for 1 week . they will be perfectly fine since I love to see them close to us at night (sofabed).  We book in the USA 1 or 2 bedroom but if 37k SO gives us a 1 week in cancun_studio   why not?:whoopie:




Ken555 said:


> Come back in a few years and let us know how the studio is doing for you then. Good luck!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## elleny76 (Apr 15, 2016)

Totally agreed. Depends on People needs and expenses. Its not bad idea to start with something small and see how they like it then buy more or later on resale the small points for the same price they bought($) and get more points. Its all based on size of family, age, expenses, life style..etc.

I started with small wyndham points and loved it..now I have more TS added to my "like" listing.   

I love Tugbbs!






Ken555 said:


> The real cost is with the annual mf. Buying a deed is easy, but if you plan on keeping it for ~10 years or longer it's likely best to get a 148k week.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## SMHarman (Apr 15, 2016)

dspring said:


> I'm a 5 star elite and own in Maui and Kierland and have felt they are not good value II trades so I have been using them or renting them.  Wish I new about TUG before I bought all those from the developer... Oh well, it,s been 12 years of wonderful vacations.  I have bought all platinum because you get more points for the same monthly fee.  Like Ken, I have been using FF miles or deals like the Alaska AA credit card companion pass and tolerating economy.  The biz class splurge might be a nice treat.  I also like the philosophy of buy where you want to stay and SDO seems like an apartment complex vs the very nice Kierland resort.  Regarding small 1br gold vs large 1br gold - does the large 1br have significantly better trading power on II?





Ken555 said:


> Come back in a few years and let us know how the studio is doing for you then. Good luck!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk





Ken555 said:


> That's the argument timeshare sales would make about the flexibility of SO. However, we know the reality is that few acceptable options exist for using 37k.
> 
> Good luck squeezing four in a studio.
> 
> ...





elleny76 said:


> We have toddlers and when asked they said it was fine. 2 adults and 2 toddlers under 5y/o.


It's better than a hotel room!!


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## Ken555 (Apr 15, 2016)

SMHarman said:


> It's better than a hotel room!!




Yeah, but the choice isn't just between a hotel room and a studio. If that was the only choice, I'd agree with you.


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## VacationForever (Apr 15, 2016)

Ken555 said:


> Yeah, but the choice isn't just between a hotel room and a studio. If that was the only choice, I'd agree with you.



I cannot even get my husband to accept a studio even when it is just the 2 of us.


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## DavidnRobin (Apr 15, 2016)

Those kids are going to grow fast, and that studio will soon be crowded.

after our WPORV studio stay - I have to agree with sptung's husband.


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## YYJMSP (Apr 15, 2016)

DavidnRobin said:


> Those kids are going to grow fast, and that studio will soon be crowded.
> 
> after our WPORV studio stay - I have to agree with sptung's husband.





Agreed, we've gone from bed sharing to cot to pullout couch to her own bedroom if possible in the last 11yrs



I'm glad we have the option of the larger side or dedicated 2BR units depending where we go with the villas.



Just starting the planning of another Europe trip, and we're looking at full suites instead of jr suites in the hotels.


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## Saaz124 (Apr 16, 2016)

dspring said:


> Just spent a lovely week at Kierland - properly looked great and had a great time.  Went to the owner update.  Nothing new on the sale/mergers.  They tried to pitch some Kierland units that came up.  Large 1 every year gold season for $15k + 93k points + options to buy 110k star options for + $2275 x 4.  We declined but the sales person peaked my interest.  She said the gold season large trades as well as platinum large 1 br on II and since it is a premium 1br it is easy to upgrade to 2 BR....so good to use as a trader.  Small 1br is not such a good trader.  I did a quick look on Redweek and saw large 1br gold for $1-2k. Platinum 1 BR's were $9-10k.  Going to Kierland in the fall could be nice and I like it a lot better that SDO. Would be interested in your the thoughts of a gold as a trader?  Also, I used to consider my star points to be worth $3-4 but with the hotel devaluation, now more like $2. She said 80k transfer to an airline + the 20k match buys a business class ticket to Europe or Asia that would cost $5k.  Has anyone done that?



Our first SVN presentation was at WKV and we ended up buying and then rescinding.  The sales pitch appears to have stayed the same over the years.  They really push the SO's to StarPoints and then using them to go to Europe; hotels and airfare points.  That was probably 50% of the presentation.  In the end, not a wise use of a timeshare for us.


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## Seagila (Apr 28, 2016)

*WKV Required Info for Resale*

I'm closing on a WKV deed on resale. Does the resort require social security numbers for the transfer? I guard my SS number quite earnestly and don't want to give it out unless absolutely necessary.

This is my first deed with VSE.

tia


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## Helios (Apr 28, 2016)

Seagila said:


> I'm closing on a WKV deed on resale. Does the resort require social security numbers for the transfer? I guard my SS number quite earnestly and don't want to give it out unless absolutely necessary.
> 
> This is my first deed with VSE.
> 
> tia



I would not provide it.


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## Seagila (Apr 28, 2016)

moto x said:


> I would not provide it.



Thanks for the input.  Will see if the closing company moves forward without it.


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## vacationtime1 (Apr 29, 2016)

Seagila said:


> I'm closing on a WKV deed on resale. Does the resort require social security numbers for the transfer? I guard my SS number quite earnestly and don't want to give it out unless absolutely necessary.
> 
> This is my first deed with VSE.
> 
> tia



We own three Kierland weeks.  We have never provided a social security number.


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## Helios (Apr 29, 2016)

Seagila said:


> Thanks for the input.  Will see if the closing company moves forward without it.



BTW, I have been asked before and have never provided it.


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## Seagila (May 31, 2016)

Closing went through on the WKV deed sans the social security number.  Got the letter from the closing company in the mail today informing me that the deed has been electronically recorded in my name on May 3rd.  Checked the Maricopa County e-records and confirmed this to be so.  Quite pleased with the turn around time on this transfer.

I hope I'm as lucky as r1lee whose deed got into the VSE system in just over a week after WKV was notified of the transfer as he reported here.

Thanks to everyone whose posts on TUG helped me in my research leading to the purchase of this deed.


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## r1lee (May 31, 2016)

Seagila said:


> Closing went through on the WKV deed sans the social security number.  Got the letter from the closing company in the mail today informing me that the deed has been electronically recorded in my name on May 3rd.  Checked the Maricopa County e-records and confirmed this to be so.  Quite pleased with the turn around time on this transfer.
> 
> I hope I'm as lucky as r1lee whose deed got into the VSE system in just over a week after WKV was notified of the transfer as he reported here.
> 
> Thanks to everyone whose posts on TUG helped me in my research leading to the purchase of this deed.




Congrats and Good luck


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## suzannesimon (May 31, 2016)

They sent my deed transfer to Vistana  Kierland last Tuesday and I reserved my week on Friday.  3 days total.  They are quick!


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## Seagila (Jun 1, 2016)

Thanks, r1lee!



suzannesimon said:


> They sent my deed transfer to *Vistana  Kierland* last Tuesday and I reserved my week on Friday.  3 days total.  They are quick!



Suzanne, I hope the other WKV owners don't descend on you for changing the name of the resort.  You probably saw how indignant some Westin owners were when this sub-forum's name was changed from Starwood to Vistana.


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## suzannesimon (Jun 1, 2016)

Oops!  I don't know why I did that!  I like the Westin name better myself.


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## DavidnRobin (Jun 1, 2016)

Because it is not called Vistana Kierland Villas, or Vistana Kaanapali, or Vistana Princeville, or Vistana St John, or Vistana Vistana Villages... etc.

The point of the so-called outcry is that the Branding will not be changed from Westin or Sheraton to Vistana - yet OUR forum seems to be Vistana branded when it is really Westin and Sheraton Vacation Clubs (for the most part) - which is what VSE is calling them...

As a active forum member - I think putting this form under Vistana hurts our 'Brand' - if one does not think 'Brand' is important, then they are fooling themselves. It was under the guise of helping newbies - but I think that since Sales is selling the Westin/Sheraton as a brand (and not Vistana) - not sure why we are - other than the 'powers that be' deciding.

IMO YMMV


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## dioxide45 (Jun 1, 2016)

suzannesimon said:


> They sent my deed transfer to Vistana  Kierland last Tuesday and I reserved my week on Friday.  3 days total.  They are quick!



So how does Vistana notify you of a completed transfer? I suppose if you already own Vistana deeds, you just see them show up in your account when the transfer is complete. What if you are a new owner?


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## Ken555 (Jun 2, 2016)

dioxide45 said:


> So how does Vistana notify you of a completed transfer? I suppose if you already own Vistana deeds, you just see them show up in your account when the transfer is complete. What if you are a new owner?





You'll get a letter.


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## suzannesimon (Jun 2, 2016)

The Title Company forwarded me an email from Vistana that the transfer was done and in my account.  It didn't show up online, however, until the following day.  When I bought the first Starwood, I called them to set up the online account.  The second time it didn't show up - they had opened a separate account.  If your name and address isn't exactly the same, it goes into a separate account.  One account had my address as 25th Rd North and the other as N. 25th Rd.  The last 2 have gone very smoothly.  The Title Companies were much better in both cases and made sure they were in the correct Vistana Acct.


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## r1lee (Jun 2, 2016)

1. You can call Vistana yourself, they will help you.  They will look you up, if you are not there, then it has not been registered.

2. The title company should inform you.  They informed me, then i proceeded to #1. I called Vistana to help set everything up.

3. You can wait for Vistana to send you a letter telling you about your deed etc etc.  Then proceed to #1.


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## dioxide45 (Jun 2, 2016)

r1lee said:


> 1. You can call Vistana yourself, they will help you.  They will look you up, if you are not there, then it has not been registered.
> 
> 2. The title company should inform you.  They informed me, then i proceeded to #1. I called Vistana to help set everything up.
> 
> 3. You can wait for Vistana to send you a letter telling you about your deed etc etc.  Then proceed to #1.



I tried #1 and it has not been registered. Though I think if you wait for #3, you really don't need to go back to #1 as you should be able to setup your online account based on information in the letter?


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## suzannesimon (Jun 2, 2016)

If it isn't registered with Vistana, hassle your title company. I was in a hurry because I bought platinum and the good 2017 weeks were running out.


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## dioxide45 (Jun 2, 2016)

suzannesimon said:


> If it isn't registered with Vistana, hassle your title company. I was in a hurry because I bought platinum and the good 2017 weeks were running out.



The deed was recorded a week ago Tuesday, the reservation I am looking to make can't be done until September, I think I will hold off for a bit and let the process just happen.


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## r1lee (Jun 3, 2016)

dioxide45 said:


> I tried #1 and it has not been registered. Though I think if you wait for #3, you really don't need to go back to #1 as you should be able to setup your online account based on information in the letter?



Yeah you're probably right, but I called and they walked me through everything. Inputted information that was missing from their records.


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## dioxide45 (Jun 18, 2016)

Seagila said:


> Closing went through on the WKV deed sans the social security number.  Got the letter from the closing company in the mail today informing me that the deed has been electronically recorded in my name on May 3rd.  Checked the Maricopa County e-records and confirmed this to be so.  Quite pleased with the turn around time on this transfer.
> 
> I hope I'm as lucky as r1lee whose deed got into the VSE system in just over a week after WKV was notified of the transfer as he reported here.
> 
> Thanks to everyone whose posts on TUG helped me in my research leading to the purchase of this deed.



I provided my SSN to our closing agent during the closing of our SVV week. Probably not the best option, but probably relatively low risk. However, by doing so, I was actually able to connect our new ownership to our Vistana account using the SSN/TIN option long before we ever got our letter from the closing agent. I kept trying to connect our ownership each day and finally a week ago last Tuesday, it worked! I just got the email from the closing company on Wednesday with our new account number. So providing our SSN gave us an extra week that we didn't really need and I could have just called Owner Services every day for a couple weeks to see if our ownership had been recognized.


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## r1lee (Jun 18, 2016)

Congrats and enjoy.


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