# $7000 car damage on vacation



## Tiger (Nov 16, 2007)

Tigress and I have been traveling for 37 years and we rent a car for about 50 days a year.  I virtually never bought the car rental co.'s insurance.  I have in the past checked with my auto insurer and been reassured that I was covered even overseas, and I used a credit card that advertised back up insurance for auto damage.  In all those years I never had to pay a dime for damage.  On our recent 23 day trip to England/Wales we had an unusual situation. Since it was a group trip I considered the insurance but it was 20LB daily (about $40 daily or about $880 overall with a rental of only $720).   When we checked in, I had my car in the narrow street in front of the little hotel.  Given that there was 2 way traffic and only 1 1/2 lane I asked the owner and he said that cars were occasionally scratched there and suggested that I park in the hotel lot.  One morning we came down to breakfast and was told that there was a proplem.  A freak strorm had passed over during the night and a tree had fallen on my car.  My friends car was slightly damaged but my roof was somewhat caved in, rear windshield and all the driver side panals were quite damaged.  I estimated about $10000 damage.  My friend called AMEX he had used an AMEX business card, and found out that he wasn't covered.  I called my auto insurer to find that I was covered in Canada and Puerto Rico but in no other foreign countries.  I had also used AMEX so I was sweating bullets.  I called AMEX and they at first said I wasn't covered.  I asked that they speak to a supervisor who said that yes I was covered and that if my auto insurance didn't help AMEX insurance would be the primary insurer.  He also said that had I been driving in Ireland or Italy or some other countries I wouldn't have been covered.  Avis was fine and replaced the car quickly and let me out of their lot without any problem, and to make a long story shorter Amex paid $6000 of the $7000.  They didn't pay the sales tax on the damage as per their agreement.

Needless to say I am very happy with the outcome.  I always worried that some fine print would trip me up.  And of course if I had been in Ireland or Italy it would have.

I don't begrudge the $1000 that I have to pay since the Auto rental co's insurance would have been $880, and I calculate that I have saved $30,000 or so over all the years I haven't taken the insurance.


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## Bill4728 (Nov 16, 2007)

Wow, what a story. I'm glad you had a good outcome. 

It looks like the moral of the story is that everyone driving in a foreign country should check about coverage. ( we all know that we are covered in the US.)


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## Steamboat Bill (Nov 16, 2007)

I love AmX and even use their rental car insurance program that costs $20 per rental (1 day or 1 year rental and the rate is the same).

The extra $20 per rental is a much better deal adn there is an old TUG thread on this program somewhere.


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## thinze3 (Nov 16, 2007)

Good for you.

I bought a Nintendo PSP for my youngest child a couple of years ago using my American Express card. One of my older kids had a small get-together and afterward the PSP came up missing. Rumor was, one of the guest who had been playing with it, pocketed it.

We called Amex and gave them all the information. They ultimately reimbursed us for the loss. Do not remember details like tax etc., but we too were very pleased with the outcome.


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## Scott (Nov 16, 2007)

I am in the middle of a Budget rental in Orlando. The guy on the Budget desk said that I would not be covered for the rental cars loss of use in the event of a claim. He strongly recommended that I take the rental company’s insurance. Is this correct?

Scott



Bill4728 said:


> Wow, what a story. I'm glad you had a good outcome.
> 
> It looks like the moral of the story is that everyone driving in a foreign country should check about coverage. ( we all know that we are covered in the US.)


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## T_R_Oglodyte (Nov 16, 2007)

Scott said:


> I am in the middle of a Budget rental in Orlando. The guy on the Budget desk said that I would not be covered for the rental cars loss of use in the event of a claim. He strongly recommended that I take the rental company’s insurance. Is this correct?
> 
> Scott



The sales people are trained to tell that to customers.

It's typically not covered on your personal policy. but I know that VISA does cover loss of use if you rent using your VISA credit card.

Here's a link to the VISA USA card benefits page.


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## Dave M (Nov 16, 2007)

Scott -

You should check your own car insurance policy, which may well cover you. The Budget guy has no idea what your policy states. 

Also, if you used AMEX or one of the premium credit cards (often labeled "Platinum" or in some cases "Gold") for your rental, that credit card may provide coverage for you.


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## Scott (Nov 16, 2007)

Steve, Dave,
Thank you for the replies. I figured that it was a sales ploy and declined the extra cover. But I have been thinking about the loss of use comment.

I paid with my visa card and knew that they would cover the CDW. The visa link has put my mind to rest. My auto insurance does cover me for third party loss.

Scott


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## Tiger (Nov 16, 2007)

The third party loss, property or general liability,  is not covered by the AMEX credit card insurance overseas, so that is another thing to think about.


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## thinze3 (Nov 16, 2007)

I just read on Visa Signature's list of perks that they DO COVER international car rental damage.
Sorry for the length.


"_Who is eligible?
You are eligible only if you are a valid cardholder whose name is embossed on an eligible U.S.-issued Visa Signature card. Only you as the primary renter of the vehicle and any additional drivers permitted by the auto rental agreement are covered. 


What is covered?
Subject to the terms and conditions in this Guide to Benefit, Visa Signature Auto Rental CDW reimburses you for covered damage or theft to a rental vehicle while it is your responsibility as well as valid administrative and loss-of-use charges imposed by the auto rental company and reasonable towing charges. Only vehicle rental periods that neither exceed nor are intended to exceed fifteen (15) consecutive days within your country of residence or thirty-one (31) consecutive days outside your country of residence are covered. 

The benefit provides reimbursement up to the actual cash value of the vehicle as it was originally manufactured. Most private passenger automobiles, minivans, and sport utility vehicles are eligible, but some restrictions may apply. Please contact the Benefit Administrator to inquire about a specific vehicle. 

Within your country of residence, this benefit supplements, and applies excess of, any valid and collectible insurance or reimbursement from any source. This means that, subject to the terms and conditions of this Guide to Benefit, Visa Signature Auto Rental CDW applies to losses or expenses that are not covered by insurance or reimbursement. 


Covered losses are: 
Physical damage and/or theft of the covered rental vehicle. 
Valid loss-of-use charges imposed and substantiated by the auto rental company through a fleet utilization log. 
Reasonable and customary towing charges, due to a covered loss, to the nearest qualified repair facility._"


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## Tiger (Nov 16, 2007)

I'll research the visa if I rent in Italy or Ireland


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## T_R_Oglodyte (Nov 16, 2007)

thinze3 said:


> I just read on Visa Signature's list of perks that they DO COVER international car rental damage.
> Sorry for the length.[/I]"



Here is the CDW international coverage exclusion: _Losses from rental transactions which originated in Israel, Jamaica, the Republic of Ireland, or Northern Ireland._

So, as I recently pointed out in another thread, your VISA card provides CDW coverage in Mexico.

Further, as another poster noted in that thread, the VISA CDW coverage is more generous than is the CDW coverage the car rentals companies try to foist on you.


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## dougp26364 (Nov 16, 2007)

I'm glad you were covered but, I'm always to scared to take that chance when traveling oversea's. Like you I worry there's some fine print somewhere that will trip me up. You found out that there is for Italy and Ireland (sort of scary if you've traveled to either before and not had the CDW protection).  Last year when we were in Ireland I blew out two tires and closed the outside rearview mirror twice when passing cars rearview mirrors struck mine. We had the CDW so it was never a concern for us. Of course it wasn't a 23 day trip either.

Despite your positive outcome I still think I'll take out the coverage when oversea's and not sweat the fine print in my Dinners Club credit card or my own personal insurance. I would never want to argue a bill from oversea's or have to be concerned about accidents in a foriegn country. I'm just to much of a chicken.


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## Laurie (Nov 17, 2007)

Tiger said:


> The third party loss, property or general liability,  is not covered by the AMEX credit card insurance overseas, so that is another thing to think about.


I believe that liability is almost always covered by the rental car company you'd be renting from, and is included with the rental car rate. It's the damage to the rental car that is not, but covered by certain (most) platinum or signature credit cards. Apparently on Grand Cayman, some of them tack on an extra charge for this liability insurance.

In Italy, you are required to pay the "inclusive" rate, ie to take out the extra coverage from the rental car companies.

Ireland is the only country we've been to that wasn't covered by Visa or Mastercard. As mentioned above, Israel and Jamaica aren't either. I've heard that certain Amex cards do cover CDW in Ireland.


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## Carolinian (Nov 17, 2007)

I had an incident in France one time when someone broke out a side window to steal a light jacket that I had left in the back seat.  I had to spend an hour or so getting a police report, but the gold Mastercard coverage paid all of the damages.  I did not have to pay anything.  I had another time in Greece that a local driver plowed into the back of the car, doing a lot of damage.  The rental company quickly provided another car when I drove the damaged one in, and I had again to get a police report to take to them.  I also gave them all of the data on my credit card coverage.  When I turned the new car in at their office in another city, the agent reviewed what I had provided, said that seemed to be sufficient and they would contact me if they needed anything.  I never heard anything more, so I guess the driver at fault's insurance must have paid.


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## dougp26364 (Nov 17, 2007)

Laurie said:


> Ireland is the only country we've been to that wasn't covered by Visa or Mastercard. As mentioned above, Israel and Jamaica aren't either. I've heard that certain Amex cards do cover CDW in Ireland.




It must be all those paved narrow goat trails they call roads in Ireland. 

Seriously, when we were in Ireland I was amazed at the length of time the newspapers were reporting just to sit for your driving test to get a license. It seemed to me that many people driving in Ireland were on temporary type licenses and had been for several years. If that's true that could have something to do with the lack of coverage in that country. 

All I know is I've never had a problem with serious damage to a car except for Ireland. The narrow roads and speed at which local drivers travel makes it a great place for someone not familiar with the territory to be involved in an accident. Judging from what we saw in the cities of Italy I could see it being the same way.


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## Laurie (Nov 17, 2007)

dougp26364 said:


> All I know is I've never had a problem with serious damage to a car except for Ireland. The narrow roads and speed at which local drivers travel makes it a great place for someone not familiar with the territory to be involved in an accident. Judging from what we saw in the cities of Italy I could see it being the same way.


I asked my credit card company about the lack of coverage in Ireland and was told, simply, "the number of claims" - oh yeah, of course! After being there, we could see why too.


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## dougp26364 (Nov 17, 2007)

Laurie said:


> I asked my credit card company about the lack of coverage in Ireland and was told, simply, "the number of claims" - oh yeah, of course! After being there, we could see why too.



Ireland is the only place I've rented a car where there was any sort of claim that I could have filed if I hadn't taken out all the coverage they offered. In one weeks time I blew out two tires and closed the drivers side mirror twice using the oncoming cars driver side mirror. 

At first I felt bad about the mirror until I got to looking around. On most cars I looked at, if they still even had the mirror it had several colors of paint on it.


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## Laurie (Nov 17, 2007)

Doug, if you blew out 2 tires, we must have been give the keys to your car!! (just kidding)

We had to take back 2 sets of keys to the EuropCar rental desk in Dublin - both vehicles were totally unsafe to take on the road. The first: one flat tire in the front ... hey look, a second flat tire, in the back ... and a bent wheel!  Oh, and a busted out tail light. Can you believe they didn't notice this when they checked it back in? 

We inspected the second one really carefully. It looked OK so we got 4 people's luggage loaded. Started it up, and it sounded like the transmission was going to fall out. How'd they miss that one?

If it hadn't been so late at night by this point, I would have gotten on the phone to AutoEurope and requested a different rental car company. 

And driving there reminded us of driving in Boston, but with much narrower roads and rock walls jutting into the lane. I wished we'd sprung for the enhanced CDW coverage, rather than the basic CDW.

But I wanted to emphasize this, as posted by Steve Nelson: you are much better off to refuse extra coverage if your credit card covers you. Why? Because if you accept rental car company CDW, you deductibles will be much higher, and your credit card won't pay anything, even if you would have been covered had you turned down the CDW. Credit card co's only pay when they are the only insurer, and they pay much more, probably the entire claim, whereas your deductible is usually $1000+ on the CDW. So if you want to avoid hassles in a foreign country, use your Visa coverage when you can. 

Also, pay attention to deductibles on the CDW, in places you aren't covered by your credit card. They're less for smaller classes of cars, and vary by company.


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## dougp26364 (Nov 17, 2007)

Another reason why I just take ALL the coverage out. We had no deductable in Ireland and nothing was due when we returned the car. In our case, ur car was returned with new tires. You must have been given the car from someone who didn't have the extended CDW coverage and tried to sneak one past the car hire agency.

The realy bad thing in our case was we blew both tires the same day. One was on one of those low curbs that tend to jut out into the street. The other must have been on something jutting out of one of those hedges as it ripped the sidewall. . To complicate matter it happened on a Sunday and it happened out by the cliff's of Moher. There's virtually nothing out by the cliff's in the way of service. Thank goodness we had purchased one of those world phones from Mobal.com. We were able to call Thrifty and they dispatched a truck to pick up the car, get us a tire (plus the spare that was already on the ground) and get us on our way. We had to get another new tire on Monday and that sort of sucked taking more time away from our vacation but, in the end, we didn't have to pay for a thing and that was great. 

Now in the states where I'm certain of my coverage and more comfotable with driving I never take the CDW.


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## geoand (Nov 17, 2007)

*Visa Alaska card*

I recently rented a car and there was $200 worth of damage.  I tried to use the Visa card and they told me that they will handle the situation but I should understand that they are secondary and the primary insurance would handle it.  If my own insurance didn't pay because of deductible etc, then visa would pay the deductible.


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## donnaval (Nov 19, 2007)

> Only vehicle rental periods that neither exceed nor are intended to exceed fifteen (15) consecutive days within your country of residence



Yikes--all these years I've been relying on my VISA CDW and never caught this little restriction!  I don't often need a rental car for more than 15 consecutive days but I have from time to time--and will need one for 21 days in January for our Florida trip.

Well, this solves one dilemma.  For two weeks we just need a small car but for the third week a larger one will be helpful since my brother who is in a wheelchair is joining us.  So instead of renting one car for three weeks, we'll get the smaller one for two and turn it in for a big one for the third week, and keep our VISA coverage in force.

I'm always surprised at the things I learn on TUG!  Thanks!


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## Elli (Nov 28, 2007)

donnaval said:


> Yikes--all these years I've been relying on my VISA CDW and never caught this little restriction!  I don't often need a rental car for more than 15 consecutive days but I have from time to time--and will need one for 21 days in January for our Florida trip.
> 
> Well, this solves one dilemma.  For two weeks we just need a small car but for the third week a larger one will be helpful since my brother who is in a wheelchair is joining us.  So instead of renting one car for three weeks, we'll get the smaller one for two and turn it in for a big one for the third week, and keep our VISA coverage in force.
> 
> I'm always surprised at the things I learn on TUG!  Thanks!


I just phoned RBC Visa Head Office in Canada, as we are renting a car in Hawaii for 3 weeks next year.  I was told the maximum rental is 48 days, so the CDW is good for more than 15 days, at least in my case.


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## travelplanner70 (Nov 28, 2007)

I thought there was another thread that stated VISA would cover loss of use without requiring the fleet logs; MC required fleet logs to substantiate loss of use and most rental car companies do not release those logs.  Can anyone confirm this?  Thanks.


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## Jennie (Nov 28, 2007)

donnaval said:


> Yikes--all these years I've been relying on my VISA CDW and never caught this little restriction!  I don't often need a rental car for more than 15 consecutive days but I have from time to time--and will need one for 21 days in January for our Florida trip.
> 
> Well, this solves one dilemma.  For two weeks we just need a small car but for the third week a larger one will be helpful since my brother who is in a wheelchair is joining us.  So instead of renting one car for three weeks, we'll get the smaller one for two and turn it in for a big one for the third week, and keep our VISA coverage in force.
> 
> I'm always surprised at the things I learn on TUG!  Thanks!



Better check this out carefully. Each credit card company has different rules. You need to call each of them and obtain a definite answer. I usually rent a car for 3-6 weeks in Florida each year. When I inquired about the length of coverage, it was different with Visa, Matercard, and American Express. One company even told me that if I rented say for two weeks in one part of Florida e.g. Orlando, returned the car, and then rented the next day in Ft. Lauderdale it would be considered part to the same rental period. If the two rentals together exceeded 21 days, I would be covered for nothing if I had a claim. 

I found this so unbelieveable that I called back the next day and asked for a supervisor. She confirmed that all rentals anywhere in Florida, even if they occurred days apart AND even if they were paid for with two different credit cards, would be added together. She Emailed me a copy of the page that specified this little known rule. That was 3 years ago. I don't know if there have been any changes since then.

So, hubby rents a car for the maximum period covered by the credit card he owns that provides the longest coverage. And then I rent a car from a different comapany using a credit card in my maiden name. I hope that if we ever have an accident, they don't put two and two together and find some other little known rule/excuse to not cover it. But then, we have an additonal problem. Read on.

There's one other thing few people are aware of. *NEW YORK STATE *does not allow credit card companies to provide primary coverage to residents of New York State, no matter which state the car is rented in. I found this out when someone scraped the whole right side of my rental car when it was parked overnight at the Canada House timeshare in Pompano, Florida, and did not leave their info.  When I called Amex to file a claim (first time ever in over 30 years of driving!) they told me about this rule. Naturally I assumed they were trying to get out of responsibility. But when I checked with the insurance company that covers our personal cars, they confirmed that this was true. There used to be 5 states with an arcane rule like this. Now there's only one--New York. 

A New York resident must file with their own company first. Then the credit card company will provide secondary coverage, if applicable. So now when I vacation with a girlfriend who has a license but does not own a car, she rents the car. Since she has no personal insurance, the credit card company would be primary.

For anyone over 50 who is a member of AARP (or becomes one), they have a great free benefit to consider:
http://www.aarp.org/search_advanced...g_www_aarp_org_small&words=car+rental&x=0&y=0

Click through the links to each rental car company and review the free insurance coverage. It is not the same for all companies.


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