# Westgate Rescind -- Waiting for return of deposit and worrying



## dinobot248

First time poster here ... would have been sooner but was not able to register for some reason.

I have been browsing the forum off and on for 3 weeks and have learned a lot. 


Don't want to go into the long story of how the bad decision was made so I will make it short.

- Signed floating week contract at Westgate in Orlando on May 2nd
- Sent rescind letter per contract on May 8th or 9th (definitely with in 10 day limit for Florida.
- Certified letter / return receipt show letter received on May 13th

- Had a phone conversation with sales agent last week (can't remember exactly)   when someone else picked up the phone and said I had a call ... else I would have not talked to them.  The agent threatened me with not returning the deposit ($4000) since they claimed I did not buy retail and received special owner pricing.  I told them that I was not interested and said they should process the cancellation.  They even tried to twist my words and asked if they can record me accepting a new office.  I said no I do not consent and no, I do not want anything from them.

-  Now, I'm just waiting for my deposit to return ... its been a nerve wrecking few weeks.  I feel they're going to try something sneaky.



Anyone have any advice and/or experience to share ... could be generic or Westgate specific.  Don't want to talk bad about anyone but man they are horrible.


----------



## theo

*My $0.02 worth...*



dinobot248 said:


> <snip> Had a phone conversation with sales agent last week (can't remember exactly)   when someone else picked up the phone and said I had a call ... else I would have not talked to them.  The agent threatened me with not returning the deposit ($4000) since they claimed I did not buy retail and received special owner pricing.  I told them that I was not interested and said they should process the cancellation.  They even tried to twist my words and asked if they can record me accepting a new office.  I said no I do not consent and no, I do not want anything from them.
> 
> -  Now, I'm just waiting for my deposit to return ... its been a nerve wrecking few weeks.  I feel they're going to try something sneaky.



Well, you already know that having had *any* phone conversation with those weasels was clearly a *big* mistake, but that's now just water under the bridge. I'm not sure why you didn't just hang up the phone the very first moment you learned who was on the other end, but that too is now just water under the bridge.

No real harm was done; your written cancellation instructions will ultimately prevail. It could take up to 45 days before you actually see the refund of your deposit --- and you may receive nothing further in writing from them, but in the final analysis they have *no* other legal option than to cancel the contract and refund your deposit, per your legally valid written contract rescission. *It's the law*, whether those slimy sales weasels like it or not (...they don't). The bull$#!t expressed to you in the phone call was crap and nonsense; a desperate attempt by a sales weasel to try to salvage a rapidly disappearing commission. No more, no less.

Since you chose to engage in that phone conversation, maybe you want to send another certified letter reaffrming your original written contract rescission, just for your own peace of mind and to eliminate any possibility of  a (...ahem) "misunderstanding" on their part regarding your unfortunate phone conversation. 

Just a thought and, oh --- *DO NOT* talk to them again on the phone!


----------



## timeos2

If you made any payment / deposit to them have you disputed that with the credit card (assuming it was a credit card)?  If not do so immediately. While ultimately the charge may be declared valid it will stop them from getting payment for it and require Wastegate to prove it is legitimate. Then you can counter, if needed, with your rescind notice - that should end it. 

As long as the weasels think they can hold you to the purchase - and not challenging that original charge gives them hope - they will delay and try to get you to agree to undoing the rescind you sent. By challenging the charge you short circuit that too. 

Good luck - you have every reason to be happy that you avoided becoming a Wastegate owner. They are the worst.


----------



## dinobot248

Thanks for the replies.   


I did make the deposit on the credit card.  The problem there is that I already paid off the card ... and from what I understand, I cannot dispute a charge if I have already paid for it.


----------



## theo

*Howzzat?*



dinobot248 said:


> Thanks for the replies.
> 
> 
> I did make the deposit on the credit card.  The problem there is that I already paid off the card ... and from what I understand, I cannot dispute a charge if I have already paid for it.



It's not my intent to pour salt on your wounds, but *why* would you choose to pay a credit card bill for a purchase / charge which you had presumably already cancelled? 

You have self-eliminated some additional backup protection, but in the end it should not matter anyhow. 
You should see a credit issued to that same card within 45 days. However, your card bill payment further reinforces my earlier thought to send another certified letter, *reaffirming* your original contract rescission.


----------



## Rent_Share

but it can be refunded if properly rescinded


----------



## dinobot248

Some more background. 

Well, my wife and I are relocating due to a job transfer.  The old house is on the market and we are looking for a new house.    When I paid the credit card, that was before I knew I could cancel / rescind.  Also, I wanted to keep the credit utilization low on the credit cards since I have a 7k limit only.


----------



## csxjohn

dinobot248 said:


> Some more background.
> 
> Well, my wife and I are relocating due to a job transfer.  The old house is on the market and we are looking for a new house.    When I paid the credit card, that was before I knew I could cancel / rescind.  Also, I wanted to keep the credit utilization low on the credit cards since I have a 7k limit only.



Just make a call you the CC company and see if you can still dispute the charge.

Don't just assume that you can not do so.

If you can still dispute the charge you will have a little more peace of mind.  If you can't dispute it, you're no worse off than you are right now.


----------



## dinobot248

*Just got my deposit back*

Well, happy to report that I have successfully rescinded Westgate in Orlando.  I received my deposit less $50 which is probably for the II book and black binder.

Next, I plan to report the credit card lost so I can get a new card.


Thanks to everyone who participate in the forum here.


----------



## DeniseM

dinobot248 said:


> Well, happy to report that I have successfully rescinded Westgate in Orlando.  I received my deposit less $50 which is probably for the II book and black binder.
> 
> Next, I plan to report the credit card lost so I can get a new card.
> 
> 
> Thanks to everyone who participate in the forum here.



You don't have to report it lost.  Simply tell the truth, and ask for a new card number.


----------



## khalil

theo said:


> Well, you already know that having had *any* phone conversation with those weasels was clearly a *big* mistake, but that's now just water under the bridge. I'm not sure why you didn't just hang up the phone the very first moment you learned who was on the other end, but that too is now just water under the bridge.
> 
> No real harm was done; your written cancellation instructions will ultimately prevail. It could take up to 45 days before you actually see the refund of your deposit --- and you may receive nothing further in writing from them, but in the final analysis they have *no* other legal option than to cancel the contract and refund your deposit, per your legally valid written contract rescission. *It's the law*, whether those slimy sales weasels like it or not (...they don't). The bull$#!t expressed to you in the phone call was crap and nonsense; a desperate attempt by a sales weasel to try to salvage a rapidly disappearing commission. No more, no less.
> 
> Since you chose to engage in that phone conversation, maybe you want to send another certified letter reaffrming your original written contract rescission, just for your own peace of mind and to eliminate any possibility of  a (...ahem) "misunderstanding" on their part regarding your unfortunate phone conversation.
> 
> Just a thought and, oh --- *DO NOT* talk to them again on the phone!




As a matter of interest did you try to rescind your payment with your bank if you paid via credit card or try to put a stop payment if paid by check.
Im sure it will be quicker that way to get your money back quicker.


----------



## khalil

dinobot248 said:


> Well, happy to report that I have successfully rescinded Westgate in Orlando.  I received my deposit less $50 which is probably for the II book and black binder.
> 
> Next, I plan to report the credit card lost so I can get a new card.
> 
> 
> Thanks to everyone who participate in the forum here.



Glad you got your money back from these wastegate devils. Wish everyone was lucky like you.


----------



## dinobot248

Khalil,  I paid by credit card and did not attempt to rescind my payment with the bank.  I knew that would be an uphill battle and didn't want to unnecessarily raise blood pressure and waste time on the phone trying to convince my credit card company to return my payment.


----------



## theo

*Not so much...*



khalil said:


> As a matter of interest did you try to rescind your payment with your bank if you paid via credit card or try to put a stop payment if paid by check.
> *I'm sure* it will be quicker that way to get your money back quicker.



No offense intended, but don't be so "sure" about U.S. procedures --- from somewhere in South Africa... 

Cancellation (rescission) of the contract is an entirely separate and distinct matter from the deposit payment. In other words, merely cancelling the deposit would *not* in any way cancel or in any way invalidate the executed contract. In any event, the developer generally has up to 45 days under applicable law to complete the refund process after contract rescission.

The contract must be rescinded on its' own, in writing *only*, following the developer rescission instructions precisely. Written rescission must be postmarked within the time period specified by applicable state law. 
Here in the U.S., the rescission period can be as few as 3 days in several states. It's 10 days in Florida, it's 15 days in Alaska, but in _most_ states the rescission / cancellation period is 5-7 days. Allowable time frame for subsequent refund issuance is much longer, regardless of the transaction state.


----------



## Jts81912

I am in the same boat.  Signed up for my time share on August 27th, and want to cancel.  I am in Nevada, so it looks like I have a five day period to get that certified letter sent.  Planning to do that tomorrow.  One question that I have is I have yet to find anything in my documents that says what address to send the letter at Westgate.  Do I just send the letter to the Westgate"seller" address on the contract?

Any suggestions are appreciated.  Thanks!


----------



## csxjohn

Jts81912 said:


> I am in the same boat.  Signed up for my time share on August 27th, and want to cancel.  I am in Nevada, so it looks like I have a five day period to get that certified letter sent.  Planning to do that tomorrow.  One question that I have is I have yet to find anything in my documents that says what address to send the letter at Westgate.  Do I just send the letter to the Westgate"seller" address on the contract?
> 
> Any suggestions are appreciated.  Thanks!



The time you have to rescind is determined by where you bought the timeshare, not where you live.  Make sure you do this in time!  I can't help you with the details but others will be along to help.


----------



## Passepartout

Here's the address if you can't find it:

Westgate Resorts, Corporate Headquarters
2801 Old Winter Garden Rd.
Ocoee, FL 34761

The letter doesn't need to be fancy or legalese, just something like:

I/We (names)___________________ wish to exercise our right to cancel contract number ___________ dated _________. We wish our down payment returned as soon as possible. Promotional materials will be returned under separate cover.

Signed______________ (whoever signed the contract)

Send it USPS Certified with returned receipt. Get it postmarked today.

Best wishes for a successful outcome.

Jim


----------



## theo

*Well worth repeating...*



csxjohn said:


> *The time you have to rescind is determined by where you bought the timeshare, not where you live.*  Make sure you do this in time!  <snip>



John is absolutely correct. To that important point, somewhere in your paperwork (...or maybe somewhere on a separate CD, if it's Westgate), the state rescission period, instructions, address and acceptable means of delivery of your rescission are all *supposed* to be (by law) clearly and precisely spelled out for you. 

Don't delay, keep looking, follow the rescission instructions *precisely*. 
Congratulations in advance for dodging this expensive bullet.


----------



## Jts81912

Thanks everyone for the responses.  The timeshare I purchased is in Las Vegas.  Westgate didn't give me a CD.  Only told me I would get a packet later.  On the plane now returning home, and will be working this tonight to send out tomorrow certified.

Thanks again for your help.  Great forum.  I will keep you updated with the outcome.


----------



## theo

Jts81912 said:


> Thanks everyone for the responses.  The timeshare I purchased is in Las Vegas.  Westgate didn't give me a CD.  Only told me I would get a packet later.  On the plane now returning home, and will be working this tonight to send out tomorrow certified.
> 
> Thanks again for your help.  Great forum.  I will keep you updated with the outcome.



If you meet the postmark deadline for Nevada law and send your cancellation letter by the prescribed method to the correct address, there is only one possible outcome --- contract rescission and refund of deposit. *It's the law*. It's not a voluntary program offer, an act of benevolence or a "choice" for Westgate to even consider. As slimy as that company is, even Westgate doesn't choose to run afoul of the law. 

The law also clearly requires that you be provided with a copy of your contract --- as well as rescission instructions for that contract --- right at the time of contract execution. If I understand your description correctly, the sales weasels may have failed to comply with the law right from the git go. Just what *did* they give you, if anything, besides a hearty handshake and a promise of "a packet later"?  

P.S. The sales weasels will almost certainly call you later after they get your cancellation letter, to attempt to salvage their disappearing sale and commission. You'd be well advised to have *no* (legally meaningless) oral conversation with these weasels from this very moment forward. The law is on your side --- just let it work for you and don't get in its' way.


----------



## Rent_Share

Not to rain on your parade, the obligation to allow rescission is limited to developers in Nevada, since Westgate sold their development in Las Vegas to Hilton, they may argue that you bought a resale (foreclosure) and that rescission rights do not that wapply.

There have been other posts from people who have bought in the same timeshare format resale's in Nevada that were told did not have rescission rights


----------



## theo

*Good point --- standing by for more info...*



Rent_Share said:


> Not to rain on your parade, the obligation to allow rescission is limited to developers in Nevada, since Westgate sold their development in Las Vegas to Hilton, they may argue that you bought a resale (foreclosure) and that rescission rights do not apply.
> 
> There have been other posts from people who have bought in the same timeshare format resale's in Nevada that were told did not have rescission rights



I am aware that "third party resales" are reportedly exempt from the developer rescission law in Nevada, but admittedly did not consider the possibility that this particular purchase *might* be just such a "third party" resale transaction. 

If it was, I'm wondering why the poster would refer to the purchase as being "from Westgate" if the subject property is no longer a Seagull owned property... 

We may need more specifics, details and clarification from the OP if / when we hear back from him as to exactly who is the seller here --- and of what...


----------



## Rent_Share

I do believe they run a resale operation at Elara, what other Las Vegas Properties to they have to sell ?


----------



## Jts81912

My timeshare is not at the Planet Hollywood/Hilton property, but is the Westgate Flamingo Bay, which from everything I can see, is owned by Westgate.


----------



## Rent_Share

You're good then


----------



## Jts81912

Got a call from Westgate today.  "We are processing your cancelation request and would like to discuss..."  I let it go to voicemail.


----------



## LannyPC

Jts81912 said:


> Got a call from Westgate today.  "We are processing your cancelation request and would like to discuss..."  I let it go to voicemail.




Well that's good.  That means they received your rescission request and are legally obligated to honour it.


----------



## theo

*Well done...*



Jts81912 said:


> Got a call from Westgate today.  "We are processing your cancelation request and would like to discuss..."  I let it go to voicemail.



Good job on not taking that call. You're looking only for rescission processing, *not* further "discussion".


----------



## Jts81912

I just wanted to let everyone know that I got a beautiful letter from Westgate today saying my timeshare agreement has been cancelled.  Thanks to each of you for helping me get out of a big mistake!

I believe someone was tracking money saved by cancelled timeshares.  Add $15,300 to the list.

Thanks again!

Jeff


----------



## Rent_Share

Jts81912 said:


> I just wanted to let everyone know that I got a beautiful letter from Westgate today saying my timeshare agreement has been cancelled. Thanks to each of you for helping me get out of a big mistake!
> 
> I believe someone was tracking money saved by cancelled timeshares. Add $15,300 to the list.
> 
> Thanks again!
> 
> Jeff


----------



## WvaG

dinobot248 said:


> Snip



Point blank, you have the legal right to rescind. You are protected by real estate laws, don't feel bad about anything even if the sales rep doesn't get paid (because commission isn't paid by the company until after the 1st monthly is due). I am about to post an Unofficial Q&A West Gate Thread so stay tuned.


----------



## lthomp5

*Rescinding time share contract / deposit payment*

So, I know the time limitation on my cancellation notification letter, but here is my question - the check that we wrote for the deposit/down payment has not get been presented to the bank, am I within my rights to stop payment on that, since the cancellation has been sent - or do I need to let it go through and then play the wait for the refund game?

THANKS


----------



## dioxide45

lthomp5 said:


> So, I know the time limitation on my cancellation notification letter, but here is my question - the check that we wrote for the deposit/down payment has not get been presented to the bank, am I within my rights to stop payment on that, since the cancellation has been sent - or do I need to let it go through and then play the wait for the refund game?
> 
> THANKS



People always indicate to dispute the charge for the deposit on a credit card, so I see no reason why you can't stop pay on the check.


----------

