# Big Island agenda - what do you think? [merged]



## sammy (Jun 7, 2009)

*[For continuity, I have merged the threads about your trip.  To avoid duplicate posts, please add any new questions or comments to this thread. - DeniseM Moderator]*

I'm considering a trip to the Mauna Loa observatory while at Kona Coast Resort.  I think my teenages would enjoy the view, telescopes, etc.  But I read they have to be 16.  One is only 14.5, but looks, acts, and has the physical maturity of a 16yo.  What is the reason for the 16 restriction and do you think I can get the 14yo in?  

Also, I don't want to rent a 4WD, but I read that's the only way to get to the top (along with some additional walking up the hill).  Would a tour from Kona be a good solution?  Are there any great ones?  

I'm trying to assemble a tentative itinerary and, boy, is it tough with the highlights of the island on the other side and so far away! It seems like the three major draws: volcano, superb surfing spot on the NE side (I forget the name), observatory are all on the other side and not easy as a 1/2-3/4 day activity.


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## Luanne (Jun 7, 2009)

I'm not sure where you read about the age restrictions (and personally I wouldn't try to "sneak" someone in even though they looked and acted older), but when I checked the website for the observatory I couldn't find anything about age.

http://www.mlo.noaa.gov/visitingandtours/visitingandtours.html


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## sammy (Jun 8, 2009)

I wonder if there are multiple locations and I am not using the right websites.  

I found this:
People under the age of 16 should not go any further because their bodies are still developing and they are affected more rapidly when going to a high altitude. If you plan to scuba dive, do not plan to go up to the summit within 24 hours of your dive. Furthermore, we do not recommend anyone with a heart or respiratory problem to travel above the VIS. 

on this page:
http://www.ifa.hawaii.edu/info/vis/summit.html

I will check for sure, but maybe your link is talking about a location further south?  I'm confused and now I'm not sure where we should go!


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## T_R_Oglodyte (Jun 8, 2009)

sammy said:


> I'm considering a trip to the Mauna Loa observatory while at Kona Coast Resort.  I think my teenages would enjoy the view, telescopes, etc.  But I read they have to be 16.  One is only 14.5, but looks, acts, and has the physical maturity of a 16yo.  What is the reason for the 16 restriction and do you think I can get the 14yo in?
> 
> Also, I don't want to rent a 4WD, but I read that's the only way to get to the top (along with some additional walking up the hill).  Would a tour from Kona be a good solution?  Are there any great ones?
> 
> I'm trying to assemble a tentative itinerary and, boy, is it tough with the highlights of the island on the other side and so far away! It seems like the three major draws: volcano, superb surfing spot on the NE side (I forget the name), observatory are all on the other side and not easy as a 1/2-3/4 day activity.



I have driven a conventional, 2-wheel drive compact size rental car to the top of Mauna Kea.  If the road is in good shape there isn't any real problem, as long as you are accustomed to driving in the mountains an on gravel roads.  The biggest vehicle-related issue I noted was that as we neared the summit there was a decided lack of power due to the altitude.  The engine was laboring, but it still had no problem making the grade.  On the last stretch, though, the car stayed in second gear until we reached the flatter paved roads on the summit. Yes, the rental agreement prohibits taking a car up the mountain. What that means, in effect, though is that if you should damage the car you are probably personally responsible for.  Any coverages you might have accepted with the rental will be void, and any personal coverages you might have will probably be void because you are using someone else's vehicle contrary to their instructions.  I decided that was a risk I was willing to take.

I would think long and hard before doing any hikes at the summit.  There is a short trail that goes to a small summit - I don't know if that is the actual peak of the mountain or not. (see pic below)  But at the altitude physical exertion can be quite draining.  When climbing stairs into the observatories I had to stop for about five minutes after each flight of stairs.  And I do often ski above 10,000 feet elevation without difficulty.






Other factors to consider are that your body dehydrates very quickly at that elevation. You lose very large amounts of water through your lungs, but since you're losing the water by exhalation you don't realize how much fluid you are losing.  Also the UV radiation is very intense; you can sunburn amazingly quickly, and without feeling any heat on your skin.


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## lynne (Jun 8, 2009)

You are okay to travel with children as far as the Visitor's Center which does not require a 4 wheel drive.  After dusk, there are volunteers from the university who set up telescopes and provide a narration with lasers a view of the night sky as the stars appear.   Inside of the visitor's center is a film that is worth watching as well as a small store.  It does get cold, so bundle up.


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## T_R_Oglodyte (Jun 8, 2009)

sammy said:


> I wonder if there are multiple locations and I am not using the right websites.
> 
> I found this:
> People under the age of 16 should not go any further because their bodies are still developing and they are affected more rapidly when going to a high altitude. If you plan to scuba dive, do not plan to go up to the summit within 24 hours of your dive. Furthermore, we do not recommend anyone with a heart or respiratory problem to travel above the VIS.
> ...


Also note that this site *recommends* 4-WD; it does not say it is mandatory.  For legal and practical reasons, they are obviously going to err on the side of safety.

I relied on the guidance from the ever-reliable _Big Island Revealed_, in which Andrew said the road was drivable by an ordinary vehicle if the road was in good condition. Andrew was right.


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## Luanne (Jun 8, 2009)

sammy said:


> I wonder if there are multiple locations and I am not using the right websites.
> 
> I found this:
> People under the age of 16 should not go any further because their bodies are still developing and they are affected more rapidly when going to a high altitude. If you plan to scuba dive, do not plan to go up to the summit within 24 hours of your dive. Furthermore, we do not recommend anyone with a heart or respiratory problem to travel above the VIS.
> ...



Well, it sounds like your link does explain why they recommend that those who are under 16 don't go up to the summit.


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## matbec (Jun 9, 2009)

Sammy, we're also starting to plan for a trip to the Big Island (summer 2010) and want to go to the Mauna Kea observatory. Many of the tours I've seen seem to have that minimum age restriction of 16 years old. After some searching, I found a company that offers tours to Mauna Kea, with a 4WD to the summit at sunset, which seems to accept 13 year olds.

Not sure how good they are or how competitive the pricing is, but you might want to check this one out.


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## DonM (Jun 10, 2009)

lynne said:


> ...It does get cold, so bundle up.



I like to pack light (therefore no coats)- so how do I stay warm if I don't take a tour (the web site says it can be freezing at the VIS at night)?

I assume the tours provide coats?

don


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## charford (Jun 10, 2009)

Mauna Kea and Mauna Loa are 2 completely different mountains. Mauna Kea is the one with the telescopes and the visitor center. Mauna Loa has a weather observatory. Tours don't go up to Mauna Loa. 

Taking a rental car up Mauna Kea or on the Saddle Road is prohibited by most rental car company contracts. 

Mauna Kea Summit Adventures is good. Hawaii Forest and Trail is also good for going up Mauna Kea.


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## cgeidl (Jun 11, 2009)

*Driven the saddle road many times*

The Saddle Road is not in much worse shape than some of CA freeways. I have gone over about 10 times over the years and never had any problem in rental cars.Never been to the Observatory but may go this AUgust for something new to do on the Big Island.You might consider staying over one bight on the other side of the mountain near the volcano if the activity is worthwhile and you can get reasonably close as the 2 hour plus hike on the lava is a long ways,
Don't know what conditions are now but there are easy ways to check with the park.


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## sammy (Jun 13, 2009)

*13 works*



charford said:


> Mauna Kea and Mauna Loa are 2 completely different mountains. Mauna Kea is the one with the telescopes and the visitor center. Mauna Loa has a weather observatory. Tours don't go up to Mauna Loa.
> 
> Mauna Kea Summit Adventures is good. Hawaii Forest and Trail is also good for going up Mauna Kea.



Thank you - that clears up some of my confusion over the 2 names.  

Matbec - I started calling the agencies and when I spoke to them in person they did say they'd take the 13yos even thou they publish 16, so we will be fine.  Thanks for prompting me to call.  

DonM - Yes, it seems at least some of the tour companies provide the warm jackets.


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## sammy (Jun 13, 2009)

*Big Island agenda - what do you think?*

Does anyone know of tour companies to recommend (or not) for kayak and zipline tours on the Big Island?  I am looking for _moderate_ adventure, and not what might be considered _extreme_ or advanced adventure.


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## daventrina (Jun 14, 2009)

charford said:


> Taking a rental car up Mauna Kea or on the Saddle Road is prohibited by most rental car company contracts.


We don't ask and they usually don't tell. Same applies to off-road.
But then, this is a county road


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## daventrina (Jun 14, 2009)

Passengers on aircraft have to have O2 above 15,000 feet. 
Be sure to spend some time at the VIS for for your body to adjust some...

.http://www.ifa.hawaii.edu/mko/visiting.htm


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## T_R_Oglodyte (Jun 14, 2009)

daventrina said:


> We don't ask and they usually don't tell. Same applies to off-road.
> But then, this is a county road


A more succinct way to say what I was trying to point out above.

To reiterate, the real consequence is that if there is damage to the vehicle you will likely be liable for damages out of your own pocket.  Your insurance probably will  not pay - and the credit card issuer will not pay if you use CC coverage - because you were operating a vehicle contrary to the vehicle owners permission.

Other than that, the fact that travel on the road is prohibited is likely of no import.  

On Kaua'i we regularly take our rental on unpaved roads.  In fact, you can't get to Polihale without violating most car rental contracts.


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## daventrina (Jun 15, 2009)

T_R_Oglodyte said:


> Other than that, the fact that travel on the road is prohibited is likely of no import.


Also, If you get stuck, it will be difficult to get a tow truck to get you out.. .
Additionally, if you haven't spent much time off-road, there are a lot of places that would be a good idea to get a first taste. 
e.g. We had a blast on the "very nasty 4x4 road" on the big island
	
	



```

```
. For us, it was slow, but not challenging. If it was your first time, it wouldn't be hard to get yourself into some trouble.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/dntanderson/749055664/sizes/l/in/set-72157600338489547/
Worth the trip to this beach:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/dntanderson/748199595/sizes/l/in/set-72157600338489547/


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## randyz (Jun 16, 2009)

Recently used Kona Boys on the highway to Captain Cook. Great service and great access to Captain Cook monument. Definitely easy to moderate kajaking. Awesome snorkeling, if you like to can continue around the point to check out some lava caves etc..

Randy


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## DonM (Jun 21, 2009)

cgeidl said:


> The Saddle Road is not in much worse shape than some of CA freeways. I have gone over about 10 times over the years and never had any problem in rental cars.Never been to the Observatory but may go this AUgust for something new to do on the Big Island.




Don't wish to belabor the point re Saddle Road and the car rental companies, but I seem to remember that the last rental company I used said I could travel on Saddle Road, I just couldn't go off it onto a side road.

The map on the visitors page for the observatory seems to indicate that it is not on saddle road. Does anyone know how far off Saddle it is, and whether or not it's a safe ride even if it is strictly in violation of the rental agreement?

Thanks,

don


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## IngridN (Jun 21, 2009)

DonM said:


> I like to pack light (therefore no coats)- so how do I stay warm if I don't take a tour (the web site says it can be freezing at the VIS at night)?
> 
> I assume the tours provide coats?
> 
> don



The tour companies should provide parkas as well as gloves.  We went up to Mauna Kea 2 years ago in late July.  It was a beautiful, hot sunny day, however, with the wind chill factor, the temp at the top was 20F...I could not have survived w/o the parka and gloves, and even then, I froze!

It was a fabulous experience. I actually had to talk DH into taking the tour (I spend a bit more freely than he does!) and was he glad I did. We were above the clouds and the sunset was spectacular.  Pricey but well worth it.  After decending, they take you to their own special place at about 9,000 ft and set up telescopes.  

Ingrid


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## T_R_Oglodyte (Jun 21, 2009)

daventrina said:


> Also, If you get stuck, it will be difficult to get a tow truck to get you out.. .
> Additionally, if you haven't spent much time off-road, there are a lot of places that would be a good idea to get a first taste.
> e.g. We had a blast on the "very nasty 4x4 road" on the big island
> 
> ...



Why would it be difficult to get a tow truck to pull you out?  Whenever I've gotten stuck driving someplace where I shouldn't have, I've never had a problem getting a tow truck to pull me out.  Show them the green and they'll go where they need to.


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## daventrina (Jun 22, 2009)

T_R_Oglodyte said:


> Why would it be difficult to get a tow truck to pull you out?


First they would have to be able to get to you:





(Defined in BI Revealed - "Very Nasty 4x4 road") While it wasn't much of a challenge for our stock (but fancy) Wrangler, getting a standard tow truck down there would be difficult if not impossible.

One couple was fortunate enough to get a tow out of here:




for $150 after their JEEP rolled off the trail after the parking brake broke. But it is the Rubicon and a special market and a special tow truck.


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## T_R_Oglodyte (Jun 22, 2009)

daventrina said:


> First they would have to be able to get to you:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I concur if you are in that type of terrain. But that terrain is not anywhere near what might be encountered on the road to the top of Mauna Kea.











I am totally confident that if the OP did happen to get stuck on the road to Mauna Kea, the OP would have *zero *problem engaging a tow truck to get the car unstuck.


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## DonM (Jun 22, 2009)

DonM said:


> Don't wish to belabor the point re Saddle Road and the car rental companies, but I seem to remember that the last rental company I used said I could travel on Saddle Road, I just couldn't go off it onto a side road.
> 
> The map on the visitors page for the observatory seems to indicate that it is not on saddle road. Does anyone know how far off Saddle it is, and whether or not it's a safe ride even if it is strictly in violation of the rental agreement?
> 
> ...



My question got buried- I'm still looking for an answer.

thanks
don


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## T_R_Oglodyte (Jun 22, 2009)

DonM said:


> My question got buried- I'm still looking for an answer.
> 
> thanks
> don



It's not on Saddle Road; it's on the Mauna Kea Access Road.  The road is paved as far as the Visitor Center.  The pics I posted above are of the unpaved section between the Visitor Center and the telescopes.  At the top the roads are again paved.

There's about 4000 ft difference in elevation between the Visitor Center and the top of the mountain.


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## DonM (Jun 22, 2009)

Thanks Steve- that's what I need to know. Are we talking many miles off saddle road?

don


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## sammy (Jun 22, 2009)

IngridN said:


> The tour companies should provide parkas as well as gloves.  We went up to Mauna Kea 2 years ago in late July.  It was a beautiful, hot sunny day, however, with the wind chill factor, the temp at the top was 20F...I could not have survived w/o the parka and gloves, and even then, I froze!
> 
> It was a fabulous experience. I actually had to talk DH into taking the tour (I spend a bit more freely than he does!) and was he glad I did. We were above the clouds and the sunset was spectacular.  Pricey but well worth it.  After decending, they take you to their own special place at about 9,000 ft and set up telescopes.
> 
> Ingrid



Ingrid, Do you remember what tour company you used?  It sounds like you were very pleased with them.  Do you think it would have been the same with any tour company?  Did they provide the winter coats?


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## sammy (Jun 22, 2009)

In one of the travel guides I read that only the tour companies were permitted to travel the whole mountain and get the total experience.  Is that the case?


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## T_R_Oglodyte (Jun 22, 2009)

DonM said:


> Thanks Steve- that's what I need to know. Are we talking many miles off saddle road?
> 
> don



It's not far - ten miles at most.  Probably about 3000 to 4000 ft elevation gain after you leave Saddle Road.

The visitor center should show on maps. It is pretty clearly marked in _The Big Island Revealed_ guidebook, and you should not leave home for the Big Island without it.

IIRC, it right at the place where the road makes turns right and begins a series of hairpin climbs to reach the summit.


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## sammy (Jun 22, 2009)

*What about these............*

Hoc,
We are planning to go to Mauna Kea, which I'm sure you've already read about.  And we are considering the following which have been recommended in several guides: 
- Hulihee Palace
- Pacific Tsunami Museum
- Parker Ranch and Historic Homes
- Puuhonua O Honaunau Natl Hist Park
- Puukohola Heiau
- various botanical gardens

I've also read that the Big Island is becoming a premier golf locale with top notch courses.  I doubt we'll take our clubs, but as golfers, I would love to paly one and I wish we could justify lugging them all the way there and back! 

Does anyone have feedback for the sites above?


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## IngridN (Jun 22, 2009)

sammy said:


> In one of the travel guides I read that only the tour companies were permitted to travel the whole mountain and get the total experience.  Is that the case?



That is not correct.  Anyone can go up to the top.  There were several people there who had come up on their own.

Ingrid


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## sammy (Jun 22, 2009)

Ingrid, Thanks for clarifying.  Do you remember what tour company you used?


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## IngridN (Jun 22, 2009)

sammy said:


> Ingrid, Do you remember what tour company you used?  It sounds like you were very pleased with them.  Do you think it would have been the same with any tour company?  Did they provide the winter coats?



Unfortunately, I don't.  I'll check tonight and see if I can find it.  We were staying at the Hilton Waikoloa and our preference was through their "preferred" company.  However, they were all booked up and the Hilton rep gave us the name of another company they said was good and they were.  Cost was about $180pp if I remember correctly and they provided a box dinner which we ate at the Visitors Center.  It was a smallish van, about 20 people total. They picked us up at the King's mall.  There were several stops on the way to the Visitors Center.  There were several other tour companies at the top...including the one we wanted to go with.  I'll check tonight and see what I can find.

Edit...yes, all the companies provided hooded parkas and gloves.  I felt for some of the people who came on their own and didn't have true winter wear at the top.

Ingrid


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## T_R_Oglodyte (Jun 22, 2009)

sammy said:


> In one of the travel guides I read that only the tour companies were permitted to travel the whole mountain and get the total experience.  Is that the case?


I have learned to be very skeptical of the information put out by many tour guides and especially the information provided by resort concierges.  Many of those people benefit financially when people book activities. Concierges get a commission and many travel writers get comps and perks.  Common examples are myths about where one can travel (such as Mauna Kea), stating that only AWD vehicles are allowed on the Hana Road past the Seven Pools, and misstatements about putting in your own kayaks at Captain Cook on the BI and Waimea River on Kauai.

I have found the Wizard Publlishers guidebooks to be almost unfailingly reliable.


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## sammy (Jun 22, 2009)

T_R_Oglodyte said:


> I have learned to be very skeptical of the information put out by many tour guides and especially the information provided by resort concierges.  Many of those people benefit financially when people book activities.



I'm sure you are right.  As much as I prefer the freedom and timing of doing activities on our own, I think in this case I'll stick with the tour for the coats  .  

I am wondering if we can handle the drive to see NE Hawaii.  Do you think a single day to drive to Waipio Valley, Akaha Falls and a few things in Hilo is a reasonable agenda?  That may have to be a day 1 or 2 of the teens stay back at the resort.


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## T_R_Oglodyte (Jun 22, 2009)

sammy said:


> I'm sure you are right.  As much as I prefer the freedom and timing of doing activities on our own, I think in this case I'll stick with the tour for the coats  .
> 
> I am wondering if we can handle the drive to see NE Hawaii.  Do you think a single day to drive to Waipio Valley, Akaha Falls and a few things in Hilo is a reasonable agenda?  That may have to be a day 1 or 2 of the teens stay back at the resort.



It can be done in one day assuming that you don't go into Wa'ipio Valley.  It's a lot of driving.  

I encourage people visiting the Big Island to spend a couple of nights somewhere in the Hilo/Volcano area.  That makes it much easier to spend time at the volcano (especially taking advantage of night time viewing) and explore the wonderful Puna Coast area.


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## sammy (Jun 22, 2009)

*Big Island agenda - what do you think?*

Do you think taking a helicopter tour of the active volcano and Volcano National Park is a reasonable replacement for going to VNP on land?

It seems to me going to VNP would consume a full day if driving and would not allow time for stopping at sites along the way unless we took up a night on that side (which we won't).  So, I'm wondering if the helicopter tour would be a good replacement.


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## sammy (Jun 22, 2009)

*Big Island agenda - what do you think?*

I know we will not do all of this, because we really do like to just hang out by the pool, read a book, play volleyball, and head to a nice dinner, but I am wondering if the options I have listed here make sense for at least some of our days.

I envision 4 potential days on the road to the other side (we are staying at KCRII), and 2 days around the resort.  

I got my Big Island Revealed just today in the mail from Amazon so I can read up on more but I fear I'll find even more I want to see and do!  

Are these good options for any given day?

Day:  
1. Mauna Kea - tour or drive - takes entire day
2. nearby beach & Hulihes Palace - leisurely day or kayak tour or surf lesson
3. VNP - by tour or car, takes entire day
4. nearby beach & Place of Refuge, Bay View coffee farm, Greenwell botanical garden 
5. Waipio Valley, Akaha Falls, Hilo - takes entire day
6. South Point & points all others between Kona & VNP - could be done in half day


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## sammy (Jun 22, 2009)

T_R_Oglodyte said:


> I encourage people visiting the Big Island to spend a couple of nights somewhere in the Hilo/Volcano area.



I normally do all my research BEFORE booking my flights, but in this rush vacation I failed to do so and now staying on the other side is not really an option.  We fly in late Thursday, leave very early the following Thursday to stay on Oahu for another 3 nights.  That leaves only 6 full days on Hawaii.  I guess I can at least check rates to see if I can justify spending the extra $$ even thou we're already 'paying' for the room back at KCR.


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## IngridN (Jun 22, 2009)

Unfortunately, I can't find the info on our Mauna Kea summit tour, sorry 'bout that.  I googled Mauna Kea tours and several vendors came up.  Mauna Kea Summit Adventures looks interesting.  

Ingrid


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## daventrina (Jun 24, 2009)

sammy said:


> 1. Mauna Kea - tour or drive - takes entire day


Unless you can get a tour of the Subaru Telescope (http://www.naoj.org/Information/Tour/Summit/index.html) or are going up for the sunset/sunrise we wouldn't spend a day going up to Mauna Kea (we have planned to a couple of times - but couldn't get on the tour and found better things to do)
May want to consider the Kohola coast instead. If you take the road over the top the views are not bad.
BIR has hundreds (if not thousands) of things to do.

Folks, don't forget that unless you have been out of the water for some time and have been diving, you can't get from the west side of the island to the east without risking the bends - passes too high.


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## sammy (Jul 4, 2009)

*Driving Saddle Rd with a rental....*

Here's what my Dollar contracts states, word for word:

"Driving Restriction: No offroad driving is permitted. Driving is permitted on Saddle Road but not passed the Mauna Kea Visitor Center since it is not paved."


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