# So why is there seemingly so much more tourism now?



## isisdave (Jun 13, 2019)

Several of the recent threads on cruise ships and their impact on ports, as well as personal experiences at just about any national park in the summer, lead me to wonder "Why are there so many more people in these places?"

I first cruised in 1974, and there were lots of places where my 1500-passenger ship was the only one in port. Nowadays, any old port has 3 or 4 ships disgorging about 10,000 people onto the streets. We were in Alaska recently, really early in the season, and Skagway and Ketchikan were in fact like Disneyland on the first day of summer vacation.

Machu Picchu is about to get more limited, Mt Everest is having fatalities partly because of the traffic, you need to book months ahead online for the Vatican and the Louvre and Uffizi and Accademia. Flights are full even though there are more, and if anything goes wrong weather-wise, flights are disrupted for days. There are lines for everything.

So why is that? Why are so many more people traveling now? Is it cheaper than 25 years ago? Is it because it's easier to organize on the Internet? Are people retiring earlier? Is there more gig economy, so folks of working years can take several weeks between assignments to go to Europe or Australia?

I know there is lots more travel beginning in Asia, and in fact we met a lot of these people throughout Europe and in the National Parks last summer.  This is a huge market that hasn't traveled much until now, so there's a lot of demand. They weren't overrunning Alaska in May, though.

What's your take on this?


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## silentg (Jun 13, 2019)

More Baby Boomers are retiring and traveling.


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## WinniWoman (Jun 13, 2019)

The world has gotten smaller and more prosperous.


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## klpca (Jun 13, 2019)

Social media has made a lot of places look really good in photos. People want to see those beautiful places!

We have a local spot that used to be known primarily as a climbing spot for rock climbers. As recently as 2010 my daughter and her friends had the place to themselves. Not any more. People line up to get their photos taken there now. Google "Potato Chip Rock". It was made popular by social media. Now when my daughter and her friends go climbing they bring trash bags to clean up the trash that people leave - and they have recently had to start cleaning up human waste as well. People have started to refrain from geotagging their photos but I am afraid that it's a bit late for that.


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## bluehende (Jun 14, 2019)

It is the emergence of a world wide middle class.


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## "Roger" (Jun 14, 2019)

If you want to know more about the topic, I recommend reading _Overbooked: the Exploding Business of Travel and Tourism_ by Elizabeth Becker. 

It gets four stars on Amazon, and, without looking at the individual reviews, I can see why. I found about three fourths of the book _totally_ fascinating (at least five stars), but every once in a while the author goes off listing the agencies concerned with managing tourism. Those sections are alphabet soup (the initials for the agencies) and would get a one star from me. The book covers a number of hot spots such as Venice, the topic of the large cruise ships, etc. There is some good news in the book. France does better managing tourism than most places. A National Geographic ship that goes through the Panama Canal gets high praise. (Another reason for me to like the book. I had actually had taken that trip prior to reading the book.) Knowing that there will be bumps in the road (the boring sections on tourism agencies), I still highly recommend this book.

There is another book of interest on the fairly recent history of tourism: _Europe on 5 Wrong Turns a Day _by Doug Mack. Doug finds a copy of the original Fodor's _Europe on Five Dollars a Day_ (five dollars, can you imagine?) in a garage sale. Turns out that his mother had used Fodor's original book as guide during a student trip to Europe in the '60s when student tourism just began to take off. Part of the reason for that is that cheaper flights had just become available. (About $3500 in today's dollars, about what a current business fare costs. Puts our complaining about the current cattle class airline seats and service into perspective.) Doug then goes on to purposely see how much of the original Fodor's trip he could do now.

Interestingly, prior to Fodor's, tour books that covered travelling to Europe only mentioned expensive hotels, claimed you should bring two suits, five to ten dress shirts, etc. Fodor's was ground breaking in that it was the first tour book for more ordinary people.

I related well to this book in that I was part of that first student wave. (I did not use Fodor's. My travel guide was to stay in youth hostels and whoever had been at those hostels for a couple of days would tell me what to see, where to eat, etc. I would then pass on my knowledge to the next students to arrive.) My second reason for relating to this book is that Mack is an alumni of the college that I attended (and that is how I found out about this book.)


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## Ken555 (Jun 14, 2019)

Thanks for reminding me to buy tickets for the Louvre!


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## davidvel (Jun 14, 2019)

The U.S. and world economies have been on a huge roll.


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## isisdave (Jun 15, 2019)

Here's an article about cost of air travel. I know that's a big part ... in 1966, I remember it cost $90 from SFO to JFK -- although I can't remember if that was one way or round trip, it hardly matters as it's equivalent to about $700 today.

How fascinating the $5 a day book must be now.  

"Roger," thanks for the book suggestions.  I guess others have thought the topic worth writing about.


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## OldGuy (Jun 15, 2019)

Every reply thusfar appears to agree with the OP, that more tourism is happening, yet when I look at specific tourism numbers, some seem to be relatively the same as after the economic speedbump.  I would cite one, which I know to be a relatively stable number, but, then, I don't want to make it sound like I am singling out just that tourist destination.

But, to single out one, SW FL was down last year, because of water issues, while statewide Florida set a record for the eighth consecutive year, 126M I believe.

Generally, though, I would tend to agree that more traveling is being done.

&, I far as getting smaller and more prosperous, I am not.


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## OldGuy (Jun 15, 2019)

davidvel said:


> The U.S. and world economies have been on a huge roll.




Yup, ever since 2009, it has been on the ups:

https://i1.wp.com/fabiusmaximus.com...-since-the-recession.png?resize=584,420&ssl=1


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## isisdave (Jun 15, 2019)

OldGuy said:


> Yup, ever since 2009, it has been on the ups:
> 
> https://i1.wp.com/fabiusmaximus.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/growth-of-us-per-capita-real-gdp-since-the-recession.png?resize=584,420&ssl=1



That graph says that GDP per capita increased less than 3% in 9 years.  Or 2014-2016, same amount. Even 2009-2016 is just 9.5% in 7 years, or 1.35% per year.

There are IMHO way more than 9% more people in travel venues in the last 7 years.


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## OldGuy (Jun 15, 2019)

isisdave said:


> That graph says that GDP per capita increased less than 3% in 9 years.  Or 2014-2016, same amount. Even 2009-2016 is just 9.5% in 7 years, or 1.35% per year.
> 
> There are IMHO way more than 9% more people in travel venues in the last 7 years.



You taking to me?

I was just corroborating davidvel about the economy.

Maybe this one makes the point better:

https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/624/cpsprodpb/58BD/production/_99671722_usdowjonesfinak.png

Maybe not.


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## bluehende (Jun 16, 2019)

isisdave said:


> That graph says that GDP per capita increased less than 3% in 9 years.  Or 2014-2016, same amount. Even 2009-2016 is just 9.5% in 7 years, or 1.35% per year.
> 
> There are IMHO way more than 9% more people in travel venues in the last 7 years.



That is just US gdp.  I see a lot more  Chinese tourism where the growth has been much higher and the emergence of a huge middle class there. 

Also GDP is not tourism.  When the basic needs are already met additional discretionary income is often placed into the travel budget.

Millenials are much more into experiences than things.  I am sure this is another factor.

I am sure there are a hundred more factors on why the world would travel more or less.  Trying to draw a link between one graph on gdp in america and worldwide tourism is not valid.


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## MULTIZ321 (Jun 16, 2019)

From Amsterdam to Venice, the impact of too many tourists sparks outrage and action.


https://www.cnbc.com/2019/06/14/too...sterdam-to-venice-tourism-sparks-outrage.html.


Richard


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## pedro47 (Jun 16, 2019)

IMO, There are more baby boomers, more millennials, more senior citizens, more students
cruising, timesharing, taking short and long turn vacations in this decade.


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## Gypsy65 (Jun 16, 2019)

My take?


Prior to my current job both my wife and I could work anywhere in the world where we had internet and I think a lot of people nowadays can do the same

We usually vacation several weeks a year and with the internet we can research where we want to go pretty easily. Back in the day there were fewer resorts and people relied on friends or a planners recommendations

The internet has also allowed people to see reviews. See photos and videos before ever leaving their homes and that makes planning easier

Imagine buying a home 1000 miles from where you are now 40 years ago. You had to go there in person and look. Not anymore 

We can shop. Buy. And plan for anything we want right on our devices


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## talkamotta (Jun 17, 2019)

OldGuy said:


> Every reply thusfar appears to agree with the OP, that more tourism is happening, yet when I look at specific tourism numbers, some seem to be relatively the same as after the economic speedbump.  I would cite one, which I know to be a relatively stable number, but, then, I don't want to make it sound like I am singling out just that tourist destination.
> 
> But, to single out one, SW FL was down last year, because of water issues, while statewide Florida set a record for the eighth consecutive year, 126M I believe.
> 
> ...


SW Florida had a real bad problem with red ride last year, we go there most years in the fall.  The beaches definitely weren't as crowded. .  Because news travels so fast people will change locations.  I've been seeing quite a few low fares for Dominican Republic lately.


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## OldGuy (Jun 17, 2019)

talkamotta said:


> SW Florida had a real bad problem with red ride last year, we go there most years in the fall.  The beaches definitely weren't as crowded. .  Because news travels so fast people will change locations.



The most thorough article about South Florida water problems, and the plans to solve it, which will take awhile, is in the current issue of the BoatUS magazine.

It is not just about, but includes, making the Everglades the Everglades again.  Until that long-range solution is completed, there will continue to be toxic releases going both east and west from Okeechobee.

https://www.boatus.com/expert-advic...e/2019/june/floridas-algae-blooms-wreak-havoc


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## MULTIZ321 (Jun 17, 2019)

Florida's Algae Blooms Wreak Havoc.


https://www.boatus.com/expert-advic...e/2019/june/floridas-algae-blooms-wreak-havoc


I had a problem activating the link - hopefullly it was just local to me.


Richard


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## pedro47 (Jun 17, 2019)

The real reason there are more people on vacation is because the world population have increased over 20% since 1990.


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## Passepartout (Jun 17, 2019)

"We have met the enemy, and he is US." 
Pogo Possum

Bottom line, there are just too many of us.

Jim


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## OldGuy (Jun 17, 2019)

MULTIZ321 said:


> Florida's Algae Blooms Wreak Havoc.
> 
> 
> https://www.boatus.com/expert-advic...e/2019/june/floridas-algae-blooms-wreak-havoc
> ...



Me too, but that is the right address.

Here's another way to get to it . . . it's the first site:

https://www.google.com/search?source=hp&ei=fuMHXYHcGM7GsAX47LGgCQ&q=Florida's+algae+blooms+wreak+havoc&oq=Florida's+algae+blooms+wreak+havoc&gs_l=psy-ab.3..33i299l2.3778.21984..23433...0.0..0.522.5573.4j26j0j3j1j1......0....1..gws-wiz.....0..35i39j0i131j0j0i70i251j0i10j0i22i30j33i160.t96CSTY-CQE

Yeah, that works.


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## pedro47 (Jun 17, 2019)

Another reason there is lot of excess money from the family budget to spend on leisure activities today.


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## isisdave (Jun 17, 2019)

Wow, pedro, I guess I'm not noticing that. I was reading an article recently that asserted that 23% of US was "not as well off" as before 2009.  Not sure what the details were. I guess the 77% are making up for it.


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## pedro47 (Jun 17, 2019)

isisdave, tourism is up at both Disney Theme Parks in Florida & California. Also, tourism is up at both  Universal Theme Parks in Florida & California.
Both theme parks one day admission cost are over one hundred dollars per person. Someone, somewhere have excess money to afford these prices for admission to a Theme amusement park.  This does not include parking fees, food and souvenirs.

Also, timeshare sales increased again as reported by ARDA for the third consecutive years. Sales reach over one billion dollars.


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## talkamotta (Jun 17, 2019)

I remember a long time ago when my son worked for SWA.  I was the mom and got mom passes.  I always made it home even during spring break.  Now the airlines have got more efficient;    the last time which was a few years ago....well my flight was quite the adventure.     Do you remember having lots of spare seats..not now.     Trades used to be easier now it takes more time.  Glad I geared up with some knowledge but I have more to learn.                                                                                                                                                                                                            As far as the problems with the environment being US.  It is true.  How many times do you see trash or cigarette buds in a national park.  Or even for the pet lovers......love dogs but I dont want to be stepping over your dog poop.  We need to be more environmentally minded.  Pick up or dont use water bottles at least reuse the bottles....buy yourself a thermos or tervis cup whatever.  Dont use the platic bags.  But most of all dont waste food and supplies. Most of us have gone down to using only one suitcase instead of two like we did years ago,  do that in other areas of your life.  Government can make laws but we need to be proactive.


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## billymach4 (Jun 17, 2019)

pedro47 said:


> The real reason there are more people on vacation is because the world population have increased over 20% since 1990.




Nailed it!


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## billymach4 (Jun 17, 2019)

Also the increased wealth of the Asian population. Especially China's booming economy.
For example. A few years back I went to Yellowstone. I was amazed at the amount of Chinese and Korean tour groups. 
While traveling on I15 there are Coach Buses with Mandarin or Cantonese characters 10 ft high en route to Yellowstone.


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## OldGuy (Jun 18, 2019)

pedro47 said:


> The real reason there are more people on vacation is because the world population have increased over 20% since 1990.



So, in other words, there are more people not on vacation.


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## OldGuy (Jun 18, 2019)

OldGuy said:


> Me too, but that is the right address.
> 
> Here's another way to get to it . . . it's the first site:
> 
> ...



Thus far, one has to be skeptical.  Although 2017 and 2018 has brought widespread focus on the problem, the undertaking is the world's largest effort for mankind to undo the tinkering of mankind.

There have been 68 projects approved since 2000, and as of 2011, less than 20% have been completed or even funded.  The most ambitious part is acquiring the land to allow the natural filtration of water from Okeechobee down through the Everglades to the SW tip of Florida.

Then, of course, the worst outcomes have been long after that study, 2017, and, the very worst so far, 2018.  Last Winter there was a noticeable lack of business, and busy-ness.  Some days we could even find a parking place at WalMart (but not many).

I guess a stinky Winter is SW FL is better than any Winter in Cleveland.


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## bnoble (Jun 18, 2019)

bluehende said:


> Millenials are much more into experiences than things. I am sure this is another factor.


This isn't just one age group, though there may be differences across generations. In general, people have moved to experiences vs. things. https://www.luxurytraveladvisor.com...mericans-prioritize-experiences-over-products


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## OldGuy (Jun 18, 2019)

bluehende said:


> Millenials are much more into experiences than things.



A little off-topic, but somewhat related, the other night on the National News they did a story on how a lot of milennials are actually renting things that us Old Farts never would have considered renting.  It was about household furnishings that they could rent to try and maybe buy and clothing that they could rent for a month and trade in for new rental clothing. Renting house, leasing cars, or doing ride-share, or Uber/Lyft . . . 

Just a general lessening of the desire to own, not tying up their assets.

That gives them more choice in travel, fewer timeshares and second homes (hard to have one when you don't have a first home.)


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## pedro47 (Jun 18, 2019)

Another reason for more traveling and tourism are lower and stable gasoline prices.


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## vacationtime1 (Jun 18, 2019)

Three words:  Chinese middle class.

Billymach4 gives a great example in post 29.  We saw the same kind of thing in Croatia last fall. 

Adding a few hundred million people to the middle class does that.


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## PigsDad (Jun 18, 2019)

pedro47 said:


> Another reason for more traveling and tourism are lower and stable gasoline prices.


Just curious -- has anyone here made a decision on whether to go on vacation or not based on gas prices?  I often hear this "reason" but I have personally never met someone (that I know of) where gas price was a deciding factor for a vacation.

Kurt


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## "Roger" (Jun 18, 2019)

There is an article in today's _Washington Post_ on tips for travelling in this day and age of overbooked cities and sites. There is no magic bullet in the article, but some modest suggestions. 

I am providing a link to the article below, but you might not get in as a non-subscriber. The _Post_ does allow you to read three articles a month without being a subscriber. If you can get in through the link, you can try googling the newspaper's site and use up one of your three free articles.

Link

PS - For me, the most impressive thing in the article is the picture looking down a canal while the megacruise ship MSC Magnifica passes by. I'm sorry, it just doesn't belong there.


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## OldGuy (Jun 18, 2019)

High gas prices have historically negatively impacted the regional, drive-to tourist destinations, so, not actually meeting someone who stayed home because of high gas prices doesn't change the fact that it hurts travel.

I work at one of those regional, drive-to tourist destinations, I meet tourist every day at work, and I have met one who stayed home.





PigsDad said:


> Just curious -- has anyone here made a decision on whether to go on vacation or not based on gas prices?  I often hear this "reason" but I have personally never met someone (that I know of) where gas price was a deciding factor for a vacation.
> 
> Kurt


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## isisdave (Jun 19, 2019)

"Roger" said:


> There is an article in today's _Washington Post_ on tips for travelling in this day and age of overbooked cities and sites. There is no magic bullet in the article, but some modest suggestions.
> 
> I am providing a link to the article below, but you might not get in as a non-subscriber. The _Post_ does allow you to read three articles a month without being a subscriber. If you can get in through the link, you can try googling the newspaper's site and use up one of your three free articles.
> 
> ...




Non-subscriber access is pretty much always managed by cookies, so you can try

Visiting in an incognito window
Setting cookies for the site to "delete when exiting" which is available at least on Chrome
Manually deleting the cookies for the site in question


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## MULTIZ321 (Jul 2, 2019)

NEW ORLEANS LOCALS FIGHT OVERTOURISM AS
VISITOR NUMBERS TOP VENICE.


https://www.independent.co.uk/trave...ble-task-force-venice-barcelona-a8984056.html.


Richard


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## pedro47 (Jul 2, 2019)

Regular Gasoline prices are up 5 to 6 cents per gallon in The Coastal Virginia area for the Fourth of July holiday.


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## MULTIZ321 (Jul 2, 2019)

Europe braces for another summer of overtourism.


https://www.chicagotribune.com/trav...0190702-rasn4swxw5dt7jjwwwgkkhyvza-story.html.


Richard


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## clifffaith (Jul 2, 2019)

Interesting thread. We have friends from Cologne who we were in awe of, as we stayed home and worked and maybe took a long weekend (in early days of having our own business and pre- timeshare days) and they travelled extensively every year and went all over the world for weeks at a time. In the early 90s they stayed with us for a few days and regaled us with stories of where they had been in the American southwest that we'd never even heard of (Canyon d'Chelles (sp?), for one). Just this April they visited us in our home, and as we asked them where they'd  been so far, as they emailed us from the southwest, as they emailed us as they were embarking on the Queen Mary for their cruise home, as they sent a thank you note for our hospitality, every single interaction included a common refrain "it was so crowded, there were too many people, we couldn't enjoy any solitude with nature". I thought it was just a quirk on their part, come to realize more than the Germans are saying that sightseeing has just too much company.


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## Luanne (Jul 2, 2019)

clifffaith said:


> (Canyon d'Chelles (sp?), for one). .


Correct spelling is Canyon de Chelly.  Pronounced de Shay.  It's in New Mexico.


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## PcflEZFlng (Jul 2, 2019)

Arizona, actually. Within Navajo Nation.


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## Luanne (Jul 2, 2019)

PcflEZFlng said:


> Arizona, actually. Within Navajo Nation.


Ooops.  I didn't check.  Since it is relatively close to Chaco Canyon, which is in New Mexico, I just assumed.


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## PcflEZFlng (Jul 2, 2019)

It's darn close. The landscape is beautiful in that whole area.


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## Glynda (Jul 3, 2019)

pedro47 said:


> Regular Gasoline prices are up 5 to 6 cents per gallon in The Coastal Virginia area for the Fourth of July holiday.



When I filled up Monday in the Charleston, SC, area,  I was surprised that the price of premium gasoline was the lowest I've paid in quite some time. Go figure!  SC is often said to have the lowest prices because our taxes on gasoline aren't as high as other states. Our highways and bridges are really in bad shape and I would prefer to pay higher prices for more results. Tangible results.


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## Beachclubmum (Jul 3, 2019)

Glynda said:


> When I filled up Monday in the Charleston, SC, area,  I was surprised that the price of premium gasoline was the lowest I've paid in quite some time. Go figure!  SC is often said to have the lowest prices because our taxes on gasoline aren't as high as other states. Our highways and bridges are really in bad shape and I would prefer to pay higher prices for more results. Tangible results.



Regular gas was $2.17 at the Charleston Costco yesterday and premium was $2.57. Nice!


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## pedro47 (Jul 3, 2019)

7/1/2019 regular gas at our Costco gas station in Newport News, Va was  $2.30 p/gal


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## Glynda (Jul 3, 2019)

Beachclubmum said:


> Regular gas was $2.17 at the Charleston Costco yesterday and premium was $2.57. Nice!



I filled up at a convenience store in Mount Pleasant. Shell gasoline, where I have no member card for discount. 93 octane was $2.75. It's been over $3.00 for quite some time so I was surprised. Both Costco's are pretty far from us but when we get to one, we fill up.


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## Beachclubmum (Jul 3, 2019)

Glynda said:


> I filled up at a convenience store in Mount Pleasant. Shell gasoline, where I have no member card for discount. 93 octane was $2.75. It's been over $3.00 for quite some time so I was surprised. Both Costco's are pretty far from us but when we get to one, we fill up.



I was at the Costco in Greenville two weeks ago, filling up.  Paid $2.64 for premium gas there and was pretty happy.  Usually GV is considered to have the lowest gas prices in the nation and Costco the lowest price in GV.  I've noticed that in our area ( the Carolinas),  prices have been steadily dropping since Memorial Day.


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## OldGuy (Jul 3, 2019)

Overtourism:

https://www.responsibletravel.com/copy/what-is-overtourism


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## Glynda (Jul 3, 2019)

Beachclubmum said:


> I was at the Costco in Greenville two weeks ago, filling up.  Paid $2.64 for premium gas there and was pretty happy.  Usually GV is considered to have the lowest gas prices in the nation and Costco the lowest price in GV.  I've noticed that in our area ( the Carolinas),  prices have been steadily dropping since Memorial Day.



Right. We have lived in the Greenville area three times over the years. Most recently, in River Falls Plantation, which has a Duncan, SC address. Between Spartanburg and Greenville off of HWY 290, a strip of highway which once was said to have the lowest gas prices in the nation. At that time, the price wars could lead to prices changing hourly.   Costco in Mt Pleasant today had premium at $2.65 a gallon.


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## SteelerGal (Jul 3, 2019)

The Chinese middle class has definitely increased tourism in many areas.   

 We actually live close to Disneyland and have not visited in 4yrs.  Overcrowded and cost restrictive based on ROI.(An annual pass is close to $800 for any child over 3) Then add my eldest son has Autism and can only handle 4hrs, which translates into 4-5 rides w/ a Special Needs pass.  We now go to other attractions that have family season passes.


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## Beachclubmum (Jul 3, 2019)

Glynda said:


> Right. We have lived in the Greenville area three times over the years. Most recently, in River Falls Plantation, which has a Duncan, SC address. Between Spartanburg and Greenville off of HWY 290, a strip of highway which once was said to have the lowest gas prices in the nation. At that time, the price wars could lead to prices changing hourly.   Costco in Mt Pleasant today had premium at $2.65 a gallon.



Wow, had no idea there was a Costco in Mt. Pleasant!  I've always gone to the Ashely River one.  I'm here for a month...we should do a beach day together! My dd went to college in GV and stayed. She currently lives in the historic district and I absolutely love visiting the area...so much to do.  Sadly she will be moving out of state in a couple of months.


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## Glynda (Jul 3, 2019)

Beachclubmum said:


> Wow, had no idea there was a Costco in Mt. Pleasant!  I've always gone to the Ashely River one.  I'm here for a month...we should do a beach day together! My dd went to college in GV and stayed. She currently lives in the historic district and I absolutely love visiting the area...so much to do.  Sadly she will be moving out of state in a couple of months.



The Costco in MP is fairly new. Drive North on HWY 17 past HWY 41 and the main entrance to Park West. Turn left onto Faison Rd. There are blue H signs at the intersection pointing the way to the hospital. There is also a building sitting on HWY 17 at this intersection that has the Costco sign painted on it. Costco will be on the right a couple of "blocks" down Faison Rd. Can't miss it if you have the right intersection. There are two or three places to turn into the hospital off of 17 so the blue signs are probably at each. The first time I drove out looking for it, I got lost but I did see a lot of great houses near and on the Wando River!  

How nice that your daughter is living in CHS and you get to visit!  Not up for a beach day but happy to meet in the Historic District. PM me.


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