# [2009] Canadian resident buying U.S. timeshare



## grapevine24 (Feb 27, 2009)

Hello to everyone. I am just starting the learning process regarding timeshares. I am considering buying in the not-to-distant future (in Orlando), and am overwhelmed with all there is to know. I am finding this forum extremely helpful.

My questions relate to being a Canadian resident.

1. Are there any particular implications for Canadian owners of U.S. timeshares?
2. Will eBay sellers normally sell to Canadians?
3. Is there a difference in the purchasing/closing process that I should be aware of?

One other question (this may be covered elsewhere)...what are your thoughts on buying a EOY two bedroom lockout with the intent of splitting it and using it annually. Is there some sort of loophole?

That is all I can think of for now, but any information would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!


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## CatLovers (Feb 28, 2009)

*No implications*

We are Canadians, and two of our deeded weeks are in the U.S.  We bought both off the resale market, and there are no issues.  You just have to follow the laws regarding property transfers of the state in which the timeshare is located.  We simply followed the instructions of the outfit we used to do the title transfer.  Ebay vendors should have no trouble selling to Canadians.  One of our two deeded U.S. weeks was purchased on Ebay, and we have also purchased U.S.-based points off Ebay.


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## matbec (Feb 28, 2009)

*Some implications if you plan to rent out your unit*

We too have two of our deeded weeks in the US. If you plan on renting out your unit, some or all of the time, you may have to declare income on it. If you ever sell it, you may have to declare income/capital gains on it. Not sure exactly what the ins/outs are since we have never rented our units out, so this is something you might want to keep in mind. We always use ours, or bank it for exchange. 

We bought one of our weeks through ebay and it was one of the smoothest purchases we ever made. As with any other TS purchase, you just have to be really careful - do your research, reasearch, and more research. And read the contract(s) with an eagle eye. Good thing you found TUG before you bought. Although all of our weeks are resale, I wish we had found TUG *before* we bought. 



> ...what are your thoughts on buying a EOY two bedroom lockout with the intent of splitting it and using it annually. Is there some sort of loophole?



This is a good strategy. Remember that you will have to bank/exchange one of the units you lock-off (and pay the exchange fee) in order to use it any other year.  I don't believe that any resort allows you to split off and use it without exchanging, either through an internal system or with one of the exchange companies. Someone here will have the answer.

Good luck with your search.


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## Art (Feb 28, 2009)

Having purchased from a US resale week from a Canadian owner, I can tell you that the Canadian seller had to jump through all sorts of hoops with respect to complying with US tax laws.  This had to do with the transfer of funds, rather than whether the week was sold for a profit or a loss.

In other words, make sure that you really want the week and don't plan on selling it in the foreseeable future.

Art


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## sailingman22 (Feb 28, 2009)

You will run into 2 issues that may be of concern. The first is that you willl be required to either go to the American Consulate or the US to have your paperwork noterized. The 2nd is to definitely research the resort & paperwork to determine if you have the correctly recorded deed for the timeshare that you have purchased and the paperwork is correct. If you are using Resort Closings to do the closing, definitely track dates & times for everything.


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## amanven (Mar 1, 2009)

sailingman22 said:


> The first is that you willl be required to either go to the American Consulate or the US to have your paperwork noterized.



Why?  I bought in the US.  The closing was done properly.  The deed was registered and I received all the notarized original copies.  I never had to go to the US or deal with the American Consulate!


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## CatLovers (Mar 1, 2009)

sailingman22 said:


> you willl be required to either go to the American Consulate or the US to have your paperwork noterized.



Not true!  We have purchased 2 US-based weeks and several transactions of US-based points, and have yet to visit the American Consulate or go to the US to have paperwork notarized.


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## Bill4728 (Mar 1, 2009)

sailingman22 said:


> The first is that you will be required to either go to the American Consulate or the US to have your paperwork notarized.


There have been several reports here of Canadians having to get special notarizations done to buy a US TS. This may be due to state laws and not US laws. So it may depend on what state you buy the TS in. 
Clearly you don't have to do it in all US states.


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## LynnW (Mar 1, 2009)

When we sold one we had to go to he American Consulate to have it notarized and it was a real pain. We were there for over 4 hours and when we did get called it took about 2 minutes. I will always remember that day as it was when I was having back problems and was having trouble sitting and they didn't want anyone to walk around. It could have been right after 9/11 so that's why the security was so tight.

Lynn


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## grapevine24 (Mar 1, 2009)

*Thanks so much!*

Just wanted to drop a quick note to say thanks for all the responses (keep them coming!).


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## Pardytime (Mar 1, 2009)

matbec said:


> As with any other TS purchase, you just have to be really careful - do your research, reasearch, and more research. And read the contract(s) with an eagle eye.



We have purchased several timeshares through eBay and one directly with a realtor.  The two through eBay were problematic, but they were resolved with patience and a lot of goodwill, and in one case through significant effort on the part of the closing company.  They really earned their fee.  Without them I would have had more sleepless nights.  And, yes, it was definitely worth the effort.  Good Luck.

_From The Capital of Canada_


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## sailingman22 (Mar 1, 2009)

I should clarify my earlier statement. I purchased 2 timeshares in the state of Hawaii off ebay and was required by the closing company, Resort Closings, to have the deed notorized in the US.


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## falmouth3 (Mar 1, 2009)

I do a fair bit of international documents for my work.  Most foreign governments will accept either a notarized document an "apostiled" document, which is a notarized document, which is then reviewed and approved by the federal government to show that the notary is OK.  If you run into a problem, the state government might be willing to accept an apostiled document from Canada.

Good luck!

Sue


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## theo (Mar 2, 2009)

*No can do...*



grapevine24 said:


> ...what are your thoughts on buying a EOY two bedroom lockout with the intent of splitting it and using it annually.



An EOY (every other year) ownership means exactly that; it is owned and can be used *only* every other (odd or even) year, as specified in the deed. *No* option exists for you to (quote) "split it" to "use it annually". Think of it this way --- someone else likely already owns that particular unit / week in the other EOY cycle which you don't own. Your only use is in odd or even years. That is the quintessential definition and nature of EOY ownership. 
If you actually seek guaranteed annual use and access in the same place, an annual use (not EOY) purchase would better meet that objective.

Unless....what you actually meant (but surely did not state) was a plan to *deposit* one portion of the "lock off" with one of the exchange companies, in hopes of then later being able to use that deposit to "exchange" into something else, somewhere else in those "off" EOY years in which you don't own and can't access your EOY unit.


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## Redrosesix (Mar 30, 2009)

Subscribing -- another Canadian beginning the research phase of timeshare ownership.

I've already figured out that I can't deal directly with DVC, one that we are considering, since they are only registered to do business in Ontario.  So that would have to be resale.

As for all the others, resale seems the best way to go, but I'm not even at the point where I know who to trust yet ie. to get me the best deal, not rip me off on the closing costs, and not lose my money.


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## calgarygary (Mar 30, 2009)

Resale is definitely the way to go but you mentioned DVC so you will also have to decide DVC resale or resale elsewhere with trading into Orlando or possibly trading into DVC.  If you are determined to own DVC, you will save by buying resale but because of Disney incentives, the savings may or may not be substantial.  However, if you are content staying offsite with the occasional possible trade into DVC, the world's your oyster as virtually any reasonable timeshare will pull quality Orlando stays.  Of course, if you are buying a trader with the hopes of trading into DVC, it must be RCI affiliated.  You can pick up a quality trader with lower mf than DVC at 10-25% of DVC selling price.


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## Redrosesix (Mar 30, 2009)

calgarygary said:


> Resale is definitely the way to go but you mentioned DVC so you will also have to decide DVC resale or resale elsewhere with trading into Orlando or possibly trading into DVC.  If you are determined to own DVC, you will save by buying resale but because of Disney incentives, the savings may or may not be substantial.  However, if you are content staying offsite with the occasional possible trade into DVC, the world's your oyster as virtually any reasonable timeshare will pull quality Orlando stays.  Of course, if you are buying a trader with the hopes of trading into DVC, it must be RCI affiliated.  You can pick up a quality trader with lower mf than DVC at 10-25% of DVC selling price.



I really think our goal is to eventually have both -- we are already doing 2 week trips every Feb. but we wouldn't want to 2 weeks every year staying onsite -- we'll want to spend some time in other places.  

The current incentives ie the cruise, just don't work for us.  If the next ones do, I might buy directly from DVC on our next trip in Feb. which would set me up in time to book our trip the following Feb.

Having said all that, I hadn't thought about buying a TS with the intention of trading into DVC.  I'll have to give that some thought.

It's good I'm not the kind of person who would buy something on a whim  :hysterical:


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## schiff1997 (Mar 30, 2009)

Have purchased four units from ebay resales all in Florida, all closed promptly within 6 - 8 weeks.  No problems straight through.  

Have sold an Orlando unit to a couple in Quebec.  No issues, nothing to claim, etc.  Had deed notorized by our local lawyer and the resorts legal dept took care of all the closing for only $200.00 US.

Have rented out my Orlando units on various occasions and never had to claim any rent as income on my taxes.


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## gorevs9 (Mar 31, 2009)

schiff1997 said:


> Have rented out my Orlando units on various occasions and never had to claim any rent as income on my taxes.


Legally you have to claim the income.  The IRS even wants bribes and kickbacks claimed as well (though a person or business cannot deduct these items ).  IMO many who just do the occasional rental do not claim the income; unless the IRS gets notified of the income via a 1099 or other method (disgruntled neighbor snitching :ignore they have no knowledge of the transaction.

If you use have a TS to only rent out your TS, then it becomes a business and you might be able to deduct MFs or even a loss when you sell.  I’m neither an accountant or tax attorney so fellow TUGGERS,  please correct me if I’m wrong.


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## schiff1997 (Mar 31, 2009)

gorevs9 said:


> Legally you have to claim the income.  The IRS even wants bribes and kickbacks claimed as well (though a person or business cannot deduct these items ).  IMO many who just do the occasional rental do not claim the income; unless the IRS gets notified of the income via a 1099 or other method (disgruntled neighbor snitching :ignore they have no knowledge of the transaction.
> 
> If you use have a TS to only rent out your TS, then it becomes a business and you might be able to deduct MFs or even a loss when you sell.  I’m neither an accountant or tax attorney so fellow TUGGERS,  please correct me if I’m wrong.



Up here in the North we do not have the IRS, only Revenue Canada


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## happymum (Apr 1, 2009)

sailingman22 said:


> I should clarify my earlier statement. I purchased 2 timeshares in the state of Hawaii off ebay and was required by the closing company, Resort Closings, to have the deed notorized in the US.



I have purchased 2 Hawaii ts's off ebay and did not have to have the deed notarized in the US.


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## middleoforchid (Apr 1, 2009)

Grapevine,no problem buying.As for selling in the future there are taxes involved.Since I used a US closing co. they witheld about $500 taxes on my $3500 Hawaii timeshare.There're many forms you can fill out to claim the taxes back but it was very complicated so I didn't bother.


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## calgarygary (Apr 1, 2009)

schiff1997 said:


> Up here in the North we do not have the IRS, only Revenue Canada



I know for a fact that our tax forms allow for rental income!  The real question for the tax experts would be if you have to claim that rental income in both Canada & the U.S. - double whammy!


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## schiff1997 (Apr 2, 2009)

calgarygary said:


> I know for a fact that our tax forms allow for rental income!  The real question for the tax experts would be if you have to claim that rental income in both Canada & the U.S. - double whammy!



I rent the unit out only to our own local area people.  I have no intention on doing this on a regular basis, and I have no intention on claiming the small rental fee that barely covers my maintenance fee, (especially with our dollar being such crap again), on my taxes.


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## calgarygary (Apr 2, 2009)

schiff1997 said:


> I rent the unit out only to our own local area people.  I have no intention on doing this on a regular basis, and I have no intention on claiming the small rental fee that barely covers my maintenance fee, (especially with our dollar being such crap again), on my taxes.



Tax evasion in two countries!  Livin on the edge.


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## Dreamtime123 (May 25, 2011)

Like Grapevine24, I am considering buying a timeshare in Florida from a family friend.  The timeshare has been in existence well over 30 years and my best friend (from the US) has a unit there as well.  There is a deed involved, but do you need a Canadian aor US lawyer to do the transaction.  What is the best way to find out the history of the TS?  History of maintenance fees? Taxes? Insurance? Are the other TS owners actually paying the maintenance fees to make sure the TS will stay in business???

Many many questions for the "other" newbie


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## ronparise (May 25, 2011)

I am a real estate agent licensed in Florida and have sold several properties to Canadians. Although timeshares arent exactly the same, they are realestate.

several comments

1) the buy  is not difficult and as far as money exchange I advise my clients to open up a bank account in the US and have money (us funds) on deposit there before doing a deal. This is not necessarry, but it helps make the deal go smoother. and will also make your life easier when you visit. 

2) consider the ultimate disposition of the property before you buy it ( ie what happens when you sell, or die, or divorce, etc.) and have the property titled accordingly. 

3) If you rent this out, or make a profit when you sell You have the income tax laws in two countries to deal with. If you sell, the the transfer agent is obligated to withhold 10% of the sale price (not profit) and send that to the IRS against your tax liability here. When you file your US tax return any excess will be returned to you

I wouldnt worry too much. Fort Myers Fl where I live is overrun by foreign tourists in the winter and they have all figured out how to handle their financial affairs while here....you will figure it out too


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## equitax (May 25, 2011)

*No problems for the canuck buyer..*

In Orlando - Absolutely no difference for buying.  Deed will be registered in Orange County FL.  The only difference is that if you are married, you will have to advise whether property is to be deeded as tenants in common or tenants by entirety - you can google this to find out the difference.

If you are however buying from a NON US resident - Including another Canadian - the transaction is subject to a witholding tax  which you (buyer) is responsible for witholding from the seller.

When you sell you will be subject to witholding tax, and if you rent, the renter is supposed to withold as well.

You may  however be able to get the witheld tax back because of CDN USA tax treaty...





grapevine24 said:


> Hello to everyone. I am just starting the learning process regarding timeshares. I am considering buying in the not-to-distant future (in Orlando), and am overwhelmed with all there is to know. I am finding this forum extremely helpful.
> 
> My questions relate to being a Canadian resident.
> 
> ...


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## Dreamtime123 (May 28, 2011)

*First Timeshare Buyer - Canadian [merged]*

Has anyone had experience with the resorts of RAL Resort Property Management?  They are located in Fort Myers and own about 6 properties.  They are family owned and I think they have been around for about 10 years?

I was wondering if you know how solid a company they are as well as how vialbe their resorts are.  I am looking at the Kaluha Beach Club specifically.

Finally, as Canadian investor, are there any extra fees or costs involved beyond a straight deed exchange?

Thanks


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## DeniseM (May 28, 2011)

Whatever you do - don't buy retail (from the resort.)  You will pay 75 - 100% more than if you buy on the resale market.

Tuggers rate the Kaluha Beach Club 6.5 out of 10, which I would consider a "D" or a "C-".  If you become a TUG member you will be able to read the ratings and reviews for this property.

There are LOTS of timeshares in Florida - please investigate your other options before you buy.


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