# Trust or Fixed Week Points -Diamond Resorts



## ccarr67 (Nov 23, 2014)

We just got back from an owners presentation and again were advised to convert our fixed points weeks into a trust. 

Can someone tell me the pros and cons and whether or not this is a good
thing to do?  I've been unsure about this and would like anyone's suggestion of whether or not this is the way to go. 

Thanks for any help anyone can provide. 

Camille


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## artringwald (Nov 23, 2014)

I'm not sure what you mean by fixed points weeks. Do you have deeded weeks that are in the Club? If so, you have the best of both worlds, and you should not convert. The maintenance fees for deeded weeks in the Club are about 50% less than the maintenance fees for the same number of points in a trust collection. Club membership is extra but not required in either case and gives you the flexibility to reserve at any DRI location.


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## ccarr67 (Nov 23, 2014)

Yes that is exactly what I have - 3 deeded contracts in the Club.

 I have been skeptical of doing this conversion as I had heard some negative things about the trust and that you give up your deed when you convert and costs are higher. I specifically asked them about this and they said no that it would still be deeded and the costs eventually would be lower as deeded weeks would escalate at a higher percentage. In looking thru some of the posts today I found that this was not true and that you do give up your deed. 

The only reason I was even considering this now is because somehow an old price freeze contract had somehow not been signed off on and it was at a very low price per point with a minimum purchase of 4000 points.   If I I was doing this then this would be the time because since Diamond went public the minimum amount of points you can buy now is 8500 at $7.79 a point which no way would I ever pay. 

One thing you did mention, however, was that Club membership is not required to reserve at any Diamond locations. I always thought you had to belong to the Club if you wanted to use the Club resorts.  Have I been unclear on how the Club works?

Thank you for responding and I appreciate your input and help. Based on this i will keep what I have.


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## artringwald (Nov 23, 2014)

If you convert, you will certainly give up your deed. The points you get from your deed may or may not have their own deed.

When costs go up, the MF's go up for deeded owners, but guess what? The trust is just a collection of deeded weeks, so their costs are going to go up too. The trusts are always going to have the extra overhead of managing the trust, plus making a tidy profit for DRI, so it's always going to be more expensive to be part of the trust.

If you're in the trust and not in the Club, you can reserve at any other resort that is in the trust's collection. The Hawaii Trust only has 4 resorts. The U.S. Trust has many resorts on the mainland. If you own a deeded week and you're not in the Club, you would have to join an exchange company like RCI or Interval International to book anywhere except your home resort. Points at various trust collections are very cheap on the resale market, but if you buy them, you can only use them inside the collection they belong to. DRI calls resale points "dirty" points because Club membership is not transferable when you buy the points. Others have negotiated with DRI to have their "dirty" points brought into the Club, but it usually involves buying more points from DRI at their absurd prices.

We have one week in the Club, and one week with no Club membership. Personally, I would never consider buying points in a trust collection, from the developer or from resale.


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## ccarr67 (Nov 24, 2014)

Thanks for all your info. 

I did notice that you own at Poipu and was just wondering about the special assessment that you all were subjected to. Since you aren't in the trust was the entire costs just distributed to deeded owners or were trust members also liable.
I've been reading that trust members are responsible for all resorts in there collection.


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## Bill4728 (Nov 24, 2014)

ccarr67 said:


> Thanks for all your info.
> 
> I did notice that you own at Poipu and was just wondering about the special assessment that you all were subjected to. Since you aren't in the trust was the entire costs just distributed to deeded owners or were trust members also liable.
> I've been reading that trust members are responsible for all resorts in there collection.



As was said earlier,  all owners at a resort must pay for things like the special assessment.  The deeded week owners AND the trust owners, it just trust owners fee is spread out over the whole trust.  But it also means that if an another resort in the trust has a special assessment the trust owners will pay then too.


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## dougp26364 (Nov 24, 2014)

ccarr67 said:


> We just got back from an owners presentation and again were advised to convert our fixed points weeks into a trust.
> 
> Can someone tell me the pros and cons and whether or not this is a good
> thing to do?  I've been unsure about this and would like anyone's suggestion of whether or not this is the way to go.
> ...



Pro: 13 month booking window for your group of resorts. Blended, but more expensive, MF's from what I've seen (not certain if this should be a pro or a con). It might be possible to simply default on you fee's and have the trust take back your week without a foreclosure appearing on your credit record. Instead it would just be a late payment, which could be paid once our trust membership/ownership had been cancelled for non-payment of fee's. I'm not 100% certain that would work but, I'd be willing to ask the question, "What happens if I forget to pay my fee's or can't pay my fee's?" before making the change. 

Con: Another fee in the form of a trust fee, loss of your deeded week, resales do not have full benefits to exchange through I.I. or RCI (makes trust points all but worthless on the resale market), the trust votes for you (really doesn't matter but some believe it does).

After looking the options over we decided to keep our deeded weeks. It seems safer and we still get what we want out of The Club.


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## Dollie (Nov 24, 2014)

dougp26364 said:


> Pro: 13 month booking window for your group of resorts.



Remember that the 13 month booking only applies to the Trust's pool of units, not the entire resort.  Trust members compete within their pool, Club members have there own pool of units,  and Deeded Owners have their pool.  Each pool is proportional to the number of weeks owned by each type of owner.  Each pool may have different booking rules.  For example at the Point at Poipu:

Trust Members - 13 months booking in the trust pool
Club Members, Deeded Owners - 12 months booking in the club pool
Club Members, Non-deeded Owners - 8 months booking in the club pool
Deeded Owners - 12 months booking in the deeded owners pool

The only competition is between Club Members.


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## artringwald (Nov 24, 2014)

ccarr67 said:


> Thanks for all your info.
> 
> I did notice that you own at Poipu and was just wondering about the special assessment that you all were subjected to. Since you aren't in the trust was the entire costs just distributed to deeded owners or were trust members also liable.
> I've been reading that trust members are responsible for all resorts in there collection.



Yes, as an owner of the Point at Poipu, I had to pay the full amount of the special assessment. The Hawaii Trust also had to pay the SA for all the weeks they owned. Someone who was thinking of buying a deeded week at P@P and bought points in the Hawaii Trust instead would be happy that they didn't have to pay the full value of the SA. Someone who was thinking of buying a deeded week at Kaanapali Beach Club and bought points in the Hawaii Trust instead would be very unhappy that they're having to pay 1/4 of the SA for P@P.

The Hawaii Trust is just a corporation that bought deeded weeks and lets members of the corporation share the weeks. They still have the same expenses and responsibilities as all the other deeded owners, but the members of the trust also have to pay the overhead for running the trust.


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## RuralEngineer (Dec 22, 2014)

*confused*

if your deeded weeks have already been converted to points AND they are in the Club there is NO advantage to have them put into the trust.  in fact your maintenance fees WILL increase.

if you simply have deeded weeks in the club and you are thinking about converting them to points you do NOT have to put them into a trust.

if you want to get to a higher tier look at club combinations and them consider how many remaining points you need to buy.   

stephen


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