# [2006] Hey Guys...anyone having prostate problems?/Merged



## breezylawn

Oh boy,  blood in my urine, not a good sign...off to the doc at my wife's insistance...physician finds small lump on my prostate....now I'm off to urologist....has anyone had this problem?  Is this the beginning of prostate cancer????  Should I start making out my will???  Blood test results have not come back, and I'm being pre-mature, but my wife swears by this site and how helpful everyone is...any advice?  Any holistic methods in the meantime? 
Bill


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## mikey0531

*Re: Hey Guys...anyone having prostate problems?*

Hi Bill,

I'm no expert -- but my dad just went through what you're going through.  And, although it doesn't mean YOU have prostate cancer, my dad does.  BUT -- it was so early that they just recently treated it with a "one shot" dose of radiation.  They put pellets inside.  From what I understand -- even if you do have cancer, as my dad put it .... "if I have to get cancer, it's a good one to get."  It's very treatable with early detection.

And, my husband also had prostatitis (sp???) -- I guess it was some kind of a growth that the urologist broke -- it was gross my husband said -- and it burned like the devil coming out -- and then he was treated for a long time with cipro.  Now, he's good.

But, I don't think you have to run out and make out your will   I hope you see the urologist soon to put your fears to rest.  

Oh --and yes, I think there are certain things you can avoid drinking -- I think my dad said too much coffee is one thing.  And, my husband swears by cranberry juice.  But, I'm sure you can find a wealth of information on the internet.  Good luck.

Debi


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## bogey21

*Re: Hey Guys...anyone having prostate problems?*



			
				breezylawn said:
			
		

> Is this the beginning of prostate cancer????......Blood test results have not come back, and I'm being pre-mature, but...



Could be, but prostate cancer is not the end of the world if caught early.  Blood test will give you PSA.  Common wisdom is not to worry unless PSA is over 4.  Don't believe it.  Key is doubling time of PSA.  If it doubles in less than a year, start checking via biopsies, bone scan, CAT scan, etc.  The lump on the prostate would worry me because it is a whole lot easier to treat prostate cancer if it has not excaped capsul than if it has.

My recommendation is this:  See what your PSA turns out to be.  If it is above 4 or has doubled in the last 12 months, get aggressive.  Don't let Doctors tell you to come back in 3 or 6 months.  Prostate cancer is usually slow growing but the sooner caught, the better.  If any doubts at all, demand that your prostate be biopsied; demand a bone scan; demand a CAT scan; demand an endorectal MRI.  

I have been there.  I was diagnosed with prostate cancer in March 2000. I was treated with IMRT and HDR radiation in June - August 2000.  Cancer came back in one spot and I was retreated with Cryosurgery in March 2006.  Right now it looks good again.

Get aggressive.  Don't let them drag this out.  It is your life, not your doctor's.  Prostate cancer can very often be beaten when attacked early. 

GEORGE


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## PamH

*Re: Hey Guys...anyone having prostate problems?*

A friend of ours just had the very same thing happen.  Yes, his is cancerous.  They said they could use "seeds" but he is pretty sure he wants them to operate and take it out using robotic surgery. He mentioned a newer procedure and I cannot remember the name, something like Deveneti which is a computer driven robotic surgery.  I think his is a fairly small lump too.
By the way, good luck!


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## Keitht

*Re: Hey Guys...anyone having prostate problems?*

There was an item about prostate cancer on a UK TV programme earlier this week.  There is apparently a growing band of medical opinion that in many cases a "Watch and Wait" approach is the best treatment.  There will obviously be tests etc to decide if that is the best way, but concern is growing that the treatment can be worse than the disease.  On the programme they said the surgical route had "A high risk of impotence and a very high risk of incontinence".  Talk about being between the rocks and a hard place!!


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## bogey21

*Re: Hey Guys...anyone having prostate problems?*



			
				Keitht said:
			
		

> There is apparently a growing band of medical opinion that in many cases a "Watch and Wait" approach is the best treatment.



I have heard that this is more the norm in parts of Europe, not so much in the US unless patient is pretty old.



			
				Keitht said:
			
		

> ...concern is growing that the treatment can be worse than the disease.  On the programme they said the surgical route had "A high risk of impotence and a very high risk of incontinence".



With surgery (and even cryosurgery) there is always the risk of impotence and incontinence.  Every year these risks are becoming less and less as the medical profession is becoming better in managing them.  Thus such concerns should be diminishing rather than growing!

GEORGE


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## boyblue

*Re: Hey Guys...anyone having prostate problems?*

No Will Bill, I hope you're fine.  Thanks for your post though, you have inspired me to get tested.  I cancelled an appointment last month after I thought about it too much.


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## MULTIZ321

*Re: Hey Guys...anyone having prostate problems?*

Pam was close.

Here's a link for more info on da Vinci Prostatectomy
http://www.davinciprostatectomy.com/


Richard


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## The Conch Man

*Re: Hey Guys...anyone having prostate problems?*

I've had prostate cancer since May 1996 ~~ they took everything ~~ When I took the PSA ~~ My # was 15 ~~ I had to wait three months cause I had to have open heart surgery 1st ~~ Been on the harmon shots in the belly every three months @ a cost $2,000 (I pay) ~~ I have to take a PSA test every three months of which its still recordin 1.3 (remember ~~ I don't have a prostate) ~~ Every year I have to do a full body bone scan ~~

No its good but I'm just lettin you know its treatable ~~ Not everyone has the same problem as I do ~~ I'm in my 60's ~~ My uroistists says to me ~~ I'll be worried when it doubles ~~ That hasn't happen yet ~~ I'd recommend to any male to get a PSA test at 40 not 50 ~~ Hope everything turns out ok for ya ~~ New technoligy has improved in the last 10 years & remember ~~ Tiger just lost his Dad to prostate cancer ~~


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## Clark

*Re: Hey Guys...anyone having prostate problems?*



			
				breezylawn said:
			
		

> Oh boy,  blood in my urine, not a good sign...off to the doc at my wife's insistance


Hmmm, that's a good woman you got there. I mean, really, you would have gone to the doc on your own, right?

Good luck with this. Virtually all of us males get worried about this sooner  or later :=(


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## ysr_racer

*Re: Hey Guys...anyone having prostate problems?*



			
				breezylawn said:
			
		

> Should I start making out my will... Bill



If you’re over 30, yes you should. Anybody over 30 should. And a living trust too. 

Also, you should list any special medical requests you have. Do your family a favor; take care of this so they don’t have to. We all go at some time. Make it easy on your survivors.


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## pcgirl54

*Re: Hey Guys...anyone having prostate problems?*

Please keep us posted on your progress with the doctor. There are many options you need to be informed so your wife was right to post here. I also posted some links for you below.

My father is 88 and was diagnosed two years ago. His PSA was 39 five years ago he had a superpubic tube put in at age 83 from a kidney blockage. Two years later it was 87 yes you read correctly. They gave him one year,it is almost 2.5 years and no symptoms  He lives independtly,drives and takes care of his house. Gleason score 8.

 He has a Lupron shot every 3 months and takes Casodex pills every day as a precaution for the 10% of cancer that the shots may not treat. Very expensive shots/pills.
No radiation or surgery at his age  so he went the hormone therapy route. He had a bone scan because this cancer goes to your bones. His PSA is now 2 one year after meds from 87. Only side effect was hot flashes.

I made my father take that PSA test,he had not had a physical in 30 years. He was caring for my mom for 10 years who has since passed from Alzheimers and neglected himself. My brother was just tested and is ok. My husband 52 is going to have one next week.

It is just as important for men to have this test as a mammaogram is for women. So tugger men have this test. Prostate cancer has many treatment options.

Here are some websites:
http://www.dummies.com/WileyCDA/DummiesArticle/id-1856.html

http://www.prostatecancerfoundation...58A7/Hormonal_therapy_for_Prostate_Cancer.htm

http://www.myprostatecancer.com/facts.html

http://www.phoenix5.org/

http://www.fightprostatecancer.org/site/PageServer?pagename=treat_home


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## DonM

*Re: Hey Guys...anyone having prostate problems?*



			
				Clark said:
			
		

> Hmmm, that's a good woman you got there. I mean, really, you would have gone to the doc on your own, right?
> (




Accountability- This is one reason why married people live longer- The spouse is there, and you must be accountable to them. Without a spouse or partner we tend to put things off, or ignore them totally. Now extended family helps as well, but a life partner is much better.


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## breezylawn

*Re: Hey Guys...anyone having prostate problems?*

   Thank you Tuggers, you have been so helpful.  My appt with the urologist is next week at 2:30 and yes, my wife will accompany me.  She asks lots of questions that I neglect to do...so, hopefully, all will be well, but I shall keep you posted.  I took the blood test last week and should get the results back before I go to the urologist.  Whew!  This will put a scare in me!
Bill


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## Miss Marty

*Ask you Doctor about Flomax*

*
Flomax - Once a day *

http://www.4flomax.com/


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## Lee B

*Re: Hey Guys...anyone having prostate problems?*

Over a year ago, while in my ts on Kauai, I thought I'd call my home phone to check on messages.  One was from my Kaiser doctor who said that my PSA test went from 32 last year to 48 this year (or something like that) and, as it's an indicator for cancer and that's a big jump in one year, "I'd like you to call the Urology Department and schedule a needle biopsy."  That's not something you want to hear while on vacation.

Another message was from the Urology Department telling me to call back and schedule a needle biopsy.  I decided that, since Kaiser appointments can be pretty distant, to call from Kauai and make the appointment for a few weeks later.  Two words I don't especially ever want to hear together are Needle and Biopsy.

The biopsy itself was unpleasant, but I'm a big boy.  I was to return the next week to hear the results, which would be when they come back from the lab (so the Urologist wouldn't know any sooner than that).

I showed up for that appointment from the lab and, as the first thing the Urologist asked was if my wife was with me, I knew the results were not good.  The biopsy is not one sample but MANY.  In my case, only about 1/4 of them had a CA (that's the abbreviation that hospital employees say instead of the dreaded word) type of cell.

Next, there's a measurement of the agressiveness of the CA type.  With prostate cancer, a Gleeson score less than 7 can be ignored for awhile.  A score of 8 or more should be acted on immediately.  Mine was 7, right in the middle.  My choices were:  Watchful waiting; surgery--prostatectomy; Androgen Suppression (drug that stops you from making testosterone, which encourages prostate CA); External Beam Radiation and Radioactive pellet implantation.  The urologist said I could take a month to decide, after absolutely refusing to pick one for me.

I did a lot of online research and, because the type of cancer in prostates is called Adenocarcinoma, and as that in the lung is what killed my Dad, I decided not to go with Watchful Waiting.  I didn't like the surgery because of the probability was high for impotence and/or incontinence.  The androgen suppression had side effects that didn't appeal, so that left me with pellets and external beam radiation.

The e-beam radiation is five days a week for seven weeks, which sounded pretty limiting, whereas the pellets were one visit and maybe a follow-up visit.  So that did it for me:  pellets.  Then I kept on researching and learned that, with modern imaging, the e-beam radiation is much more accurate than before and skin fistulas are not a problem nowadays.  Also, the pellets have a half-life of 45 days, so the side effects of them could be much longer than the 35-day e-beam treatments.  So I elected the e-beam treatments.

They started out a piece of cake but gradually I noticed that my bladder was being affected by scatter of the radiation hitting the prostate.  I liken this to putting a flashlight on my palm and noticing that the other side of my hand glows.  My large intestine also got affected, so things got a little runny at the back door, with more visits to the throne than were normal.

The last week of treatment I was going to the bathroom every night maybe five times because the bladder couldn't take the pain of much fluid pressure and woke me up.  After treatments stopped, that stopped being a problem in less than a month.  Maybe 2 weeks, I can't remember.

The Radiologist said that when I ever have a colonoscopy, the specialist would know that I had radiation, even though the intestine would not be a permanent problem for me.  The bladder is absolutely back to normal, from my viewpoint, UNLESS I hold off from using the toilet for some reason, and let it fill to high pressure.  Then it will take several weeks to lose that sensitivity again.  The back door function is virtually normal now, maybe a little softer than before, but hard to tell.

The radiation was a little more than a year ago.  My last PSA was less than 1, I think. I take it every six months or so.  Would I do the radiation again?  Probably.  Of the five choices, every one has drawbacks.  I still have erectile function and no incontinence, though those things can happen with radiation treatment up to three years later, I found in researching.

Exposure to radiation is a known _cause_ of cancer, so I may only have bought a few more years.  I vowed never to regret a decision, so I don't.  Life will deliver what it will.

My very best wishes in this exiting time of life.


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## JudyH

*Re: Hey Guys...anyone having prostate problems?*

Thanks, Lee, for sharing that experience.  I wish you the best.  I always look out for my hubby.


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## Dave M

*Re: Hey Guys...anyone having prostate problems?*

Best of luck with your appointment, Bill. However, don't despair if the dreaded "C" word comes out.

A year ago my PSA score jumped to 7.8 from 3.2 in my preceding test. I had a biopsy done which confirmed prostate cancer. Like Lee's experience, I listened to the various options and read a lot. And then read some more. And some more. All of the options were available to me, based on my PSA and Gleason scores. 

I went for additional opinions to a surgeon (to hear about the benefits, downside, etc. of prostate removal) and a radiologist (to hear similar info about various forms of radiation). Ultimately, I got a surgeon, a radiologist and a mediator (the department head of a large prostate cancer group) in a room together to discuss with me advantages and disadvantages of all of the treatments. 

It became apparent that those under 60 often favor prostate removal, which guarantees removal of the cancer if it hasn't spread. Those over 65 often favor some type of radiation. The short and intermediate term results with both seem to be about the same. The difference is that there isn't yet enough info from the long-term studies to determine what the effects of radiation will be 25-30 years later. 

At 62, I was in the middle. Ultimately, I chose to have radioactive seeds ("pellets", as referred to by Lee) implanted. The procedure would be straightforward and over quickly. I could go back to work in few days versus several weeks or more with radical surgery. Nor would I have to endure the inconvenience of day-after-day radiation treatments. I expected the incidental adverse side effects to be about the same or less than for most other treatments. And the improvements in performing the procedure seem to have minimized some of the adverse risks of years ago.

It was a single one-plus hour surgical procedure, performed last October. When I awoke in the recovery room, I felt fine. I was allowed to go home as soon as I could urinate - a few hours later. The procedure was done on a Friday; I was back at my desk at work on Monday.

I had some pain (not severe at all) for several weeks when urinating. My urinary flow was weaker than before the procedure, but was helped by doubling my Flomax prescription, a medication I had already been taking to improve urinary flow. I had a few other temporary side effects, but nothing that affected my quality of life. The only day of work that I missed was the day of the surgucal procedure and I have not had to cancel or change any personal plans that I would otherwise have made, other than during the first few days after the procedure. 

Today, I have no noticeable continuing side effects.

Earlier this month, I had my first PSA test since the seeds were implanted. My score had dropped from 7.8 to a fantastic 1.9. As my radiologist stated, "It appears that we were on target with our implants." 

I'll have PSA tests and a prostate check-up every six months for the rest of my life. That's fine with me!

I was never really worried about the result. The docs made it clear that the success rate - for any of the treatments - is very high, assuming the cancer is found reasonably early, especially before it can spread to some of the nearby critical organs. The docs were positive, I was positive and the results were all I had hoped for.

The key to identifying and acting on prostate cancer is to have an annual PSA test to ensure that there isn’t a significant rise in score that signifies a possible problem. If cancer is detected, the key to deciding what treatment to elect is to listen to all of the professional advice (not our advice here at TUG; we do better with timeshare advice!) and then decide what fits best for you. Then never look back once you have made your final decision.


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## MULTIZ321

*Re: Hey Guys...anyone having prostate problems?*

This thread has resonated with me. Thanks to all for sharing your stories and advice!

 Luckily for me, my PSA a few months ago was within normal limits and soon I will schedule a colonoscopy (it's been 5 years).

Dave, how did you manage to arrange your group meeting with the physician specialists?  I'm impressed you were able to do it.

Best Wishes,

Richard


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## Jestjoan

*Re: Hey Guys...anyone having prostate problems?*

This web site was just recommended by the Montgomery Cancer Center to all its patients.

www.caring4cancer.com     It covers many types of cancer.......I've only looked at the site briefly so far.

BTW, there is a term for the doctors meeting together to talk about a case. Maybe someone in the medical field can help out here.......I just can't remember at the moment.


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## bogey21

*Don't Ignore Cryosurgery*

As I mentioned earlier I was treated with IMRT and HDR radiation at age 65 in 2000.  My PSA ranged right around 0.80 for almost 4 years, then increased rather rapidly to 1.97, doubling faster than I liked.  Using color doplar directed biopsies my doctor found where the cancer was located and I underwent Cryosurgery (freezing the prostate or part of it to minus 40 degrees).  Two months later my PSA is back to 0.83, apparently normal for me.

I learned a lot about Cryo during this round of prostate cancer and think it has merit.  Over the last 6 years during which I have had prostate cancer and been treated for it I have come to the following conclusions:

1)  If I'm under age 65 and the cancer has been confined to the prostate, I'd probably opt for traditional surgery.  My reasons are that if the removal of the prostate is successful, there should be no further risk of prostate cancer.  Performed by the right surgeon there is a good chance that impotance and incontenance can be avoided.  In my opinion the biggest negative to surgery is the recovery from the incision and having a catheter for an extended time, up to 21 days.

2)  If I'm between 65 and 75 with prostate confined cancer, and sex isn't a big issue, I'd probably opt for cryo.  No incision to heal (just a series of punctures) and less than a week of the dreaded catheter.  It is basically an outpatient procedure.  Downside is the likelyhood of impotance.  

3)  If I'm between 75 and 85 with prostate confined cancer, I'd go for either cryo or radiation, either IMRT (downside is that it takes about 5 weeks to administer), seeds  or HDR ( three big blasts all within a 24 hour period).  I figure that if radiation fails, I'm old enough for Lupron and Casodex (hormone treatment) .

4)  If I'm over 85, I probably lean toward "Watchful Waiting"  under the theory that I will most likely die with prostate cancer rather than from it.  I might also opt for Lupron and Casodex.

My general logic is that if you are young, solve the problem once and for all if you can with surgery.  If you are older, use either the radiation or cryo option as they are easier to handle physically.  Note also that cryo can be repeated and also used to treat failed radiation.  If you are really old, then Watchful Waiting or Hormone Treatment may be in order.

The main thing to understand is that (1) you have multiple treatment options and that you will have to decide on which is best for you.  Your doctor won't (or at least shouldn't).  Your options are surgery, multiple forms of radiation (seeds, external beam, IMRT and HDR to name a few), cryosurgery, hormone treatment,  and watchful waiting and (2) you generally have plenty of time to choose your course of action as prostate cancer is usually slow growing.

Note:  I am not a doctor and have had no medical training of any kind.  My observations are only those of someone who has been down the treatment road.

GEORGE


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## breezylawn

*Re: Hey Guys...anyone having prostate problems?*

 Thank you Lee, and to all of you who replied.  My blood test came back with PSA at 6.01.  My firt appt with the urologist is today at 2:30..so I'm on my way.  My wife had the GP fax over the results to the urologist.

I've got my fingers crossed that all will be well or at least treatable.  I've been fortunate to never having a sick day in my life, BUT, to all of you reading this, a yearly physical is the best prevention.  

Now, at 57 yrs old, I will make it a habit of visiting my doctor yearly.  Prevention and early detection is the best medicine.

No longer will I put off physicals just because I feel fine.  Life is a learning experience, and I'm still learning.


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## breezylawn

*Re: Hey Guys...anyone having prostate problems?*

 Hi all...here's the scoop on today's urologist visit...A medication called Levaquin to treat possible infection.  More blood work up and go back in two weeks...if PSA is not below 4, time for biopsy


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## Patri

*Re: Hey Guys...anyone having prostate problems?*

[My very best wishes in this exiting time of life.]

Lee B, was that a Freudian slip?

And yes, breezylawn, you should make a will, even if you are totally healthy.


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## Miss Marty

*Anyone having prostate problems?*

*
Flomax: Drug Interaction and Side Effects*

Does Flomax cause Memory Loss when used over a long period of time?


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## Phil B

*Re: Hey Guys...anyone having prostate problems?*

I did almost the same thing that Dave M did. I was in my late 60's at the time.

Gleeson at 6 with 3 out of eight hits in the biopsy. PSA at 4.8.

Seeds implant in AM was fairly easy but stayed in hospital until I could go 100 CC's which happened at 7:30 PM. Nurse was tough. You don't pee you don't go home. I drank at least 3 gallons of water.

Dr. warned me will experience very uncomfortable burning during urination for between 6 months and a year maximum. Maybe less if I am lucky.  He told me he gave me a pretty big dose (120 seeds)

I went a year and a half with the burning, almost to the day - then it stopped - cold.
Been almost two years since it stopped and I am absolutely fine. No burning and very seldom get up a night.   PSA at 1.1 for last three years.

I take a low dosage of Flowmax once per night.

I spent a lot of time researching on the internet and talking to friends who have prostate cancer. For me, the seeds were the way to go. So far, it's been a good decision.

Just get a good radiation urologist.


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## bogey21

*Re: Hey Guys...anyone having prostate problems?*



			
				breezylawn said:
			
		

> ...if PSA is not below 4, time for biopsy



The old rule of thumb was that you needent worry unless your PSA exceeded 4.  Today more emphasis is being placed on PSADT (PSA Doubling Time).  Basic premis is that if your PSA doubles in 12 months or less, you really need to pay close attention.

GEORGE


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## breezylawn

*Re: Hey Guys...anyone having prostate problems?*

Thank you all for your advice and well wishes...so far, I've been examined by two doctors, given medication and just went for the biopsy.  I will get the results back sometime next week.  For now, I'm feeling great and trying not to worry.  I did, however, see that great article in Sunday's Chgo Tribune on prostate surgery and the new Robotic surgery.  If I must, then that's the way I'll go!  Thanks again!


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## bogey21

*Re: Hey Guys...anyone having prostate problems?*



			
				breezylawn said:
			
		

> I did, however, see that great article in Sunday's Chgo Tribune on prostate surgery and the new Robotic surgery.  If I must, then that's the way I'll go!  Thanks again!



Don't dismiss Cryosurgery (freezing the prostate) out of hand.  I had it (successfully) for a relapse post radiation which is a little risky but talked to a number of people who had Cryo as a primary treatment and they swear by it.  Catheter out and back at work in a week vs 3 weeks, etc. 

GEORGE


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## RonaldCol

*Re: Ask you Doctor about Flomax*



			
				Marty Giggard said:
			
		

> *
> Flomax - Once a day *
> 
> http://www.4flomax.com/



I took myself off flomax and replaced it with saw palmetto. It does an effective job of reducing the size of the enlarging prostate. Not only is saw palmetto a natural herb it also has no or fewer side affects than flomax. Cheaper too.


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## Lee B

*Re: Ask you Doctor about Flomax*



			
				RonaldCol said:
			
		

> Not only is saw palmetto a natural herb it also has no or fewer side affects than flomax. Cheaper too.


I took saw palmetto before the PSA went scary, and it helped me pee.  The theory is that it interrupts prostate swelling, maybe even shrinks it.

After my radiation treatment, I asked the urologist whether I had any reason to continue it.  She said that saw palmetto would influence my future PSA tests, so she recommended I either discontinue it or keep it up for the rest of my life.  If I stopped in the future, my PSA would show an increase which may result in a false positive.  So I stopped taking it.


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## turkel

*Re: Hey Guys...anyone having prostate problems?*

My 91yr old grandfather has had prostate Ca. for more than 8plus yrs.  The doctors did not want to treat him as they said something else probably would kill him first at his age.  He insisted on treatment.  He is sharp as a tack.  He choose chemical tx as opposed to surgery.  Prostate Ca. is very slow growing and at your age if you have it I would assume to be early and treatable.  Good luck, I am sure you'll be fine but defineatly see your doctor. Pam


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## RonaldCol

*Re: Ask you Doctor about Flomax*



			
				Lee B said:
			
		

> I took saw palmetto before the PSA went scary, and it helped me pee.  The theory is that it interrupts prostate swelling, maybe even shrinks it.
> 
> After my radiation treatment, I asked the urologist whether I had any reason to continue it.  She said that saw palmetto would influence my future PSA tests, so she recommended I either discontinue it or keep it up for the rest of my life.  If I stopped in the future, my PSA would show an increase which may result in a false positive.  So I stopped taking it.



I haven't checked with my urologist but it was he who prescribed flomax. A grammar school friend who is a practicing cardiologist told me that he doesn't take flomax. He's the same age as me (57). He told me he takes some product for his balding head of hair that has some drugs in it that functions similarly to what flomax does. 

I dislike ingesting chemicals, particularly prescription drugs, as a matter of policy. Don't like the side effects and would prefer to tackle health problems via natural remedies. The internet is a wealth of information and that is how I found the benefits of saw palmetto. I would think that the abnormally high PSA reading upon discontinuation of the use of saw palmetto would only be a temporary phenomenon; the body's PSA reading would stabilize after a short period of not using saw palmetto and the reading would return to normalcy. Of course, this is my conjecture.


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## breezylawn

*Re: Hey Guys...anyone having prostate problems?*

Many thanks to all you Tuggers for your helpful suggestions.  My biopsy came back and unfortunately it did turn out to be cancer.  Yesterday, I had a bone scan, a cat scan, and now I am awaiting results as to whether or not the cancer has spread.  I am trying to remain optimistic, but this is very difficult.
Once the results are in, I will be better informed as to what choices I have as far as surgery is concerned.  My wife, is voting for robotic surgery since she read a wonderful article on it.  I shall keep you posted.  As for all of you guys over 50, please do not do what I did, and wait just because you are feeling fine.  Get your prostate checked annually.  Bill


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## cindi

*Re: Hey Guys...anyone having prostate problems?*

I am sorry the news is bad. 

But the good part is that now you know you can start making a very imformed decision.  

Good luck to you, and please keep us posted.


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## breezylawn

*Re: Hey Guys...anyone having prostate problems?*

 To all of you Tuggers who responded, I thank you from the bottom of my heart.  Although the diagnosis of cancer sounds grim, the prognosis of recovering is 90%.  My urologist sent me to a Prostate Cancer Specialist who says I need injections to shrink the cancer somewhat, then proceed with our decision of 'seeds' to destroy the cancer.  Everyone has been positive and kind.  I have been poked, and prodded.  I've had an  ultra-sound, cat scan, catheters, and blood work.  I've had 5 doctor appts in the last 3 weeks.Now, I can rest up, think positive and solemnly promise my wife to have an annual physical.  So, guys I admit it.  This has certainly been a wake up call for me.
Just because  you feel good, doesn't necessarily mean you don't need an annual check up.  With my wife by my side, and God's help, I'll be just fine!


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## Lee B

*Re: Hey Guys...anyone having prostate problems?*



			
				breezylawn said:
			
		

> With my wife by my side, and God's help, I'll be just fine!


That not only is the right attitude, it's probably true.  You will have something hanging over you, but by staying vigilant and responsible, you will carry on for a long time.  That's my wish for you!


----------



## bogey21

*Re: Hey Guys...anyone having prostate problems?*



			
				breezylawn said:
			
		

> ... and solemnly promise my wife to have an annual physical.



Seems to me that you should also have PSAs taken quarterly or semi-annually, at least during the 1st year after having the seeds implanted.

GEORGE


----------



## turkel

*Re: Hey Guys...anyone having prostate problems?*

Sorry to hear you have CA but I am sure with the proper care you will be fine.  Many men have been living for years and years and years after diagnosis.  Keep your thoughts positive and I'll be wishing you well as I am sure many tuggers are as well.


----------



## taffy19

*Re: Hey Guys...anyone having prostate problems?*



			
				breezylawn said:
			
		

> Thank you all for your advice and well wishes...so far, I've been examined by two doctors, given medication and just went for the biopsy. I will get the results back sometime next week. For now, I'm feeling great and trying not to worry. I did, however, see that great article in Sunday's Chgo Tribune on prostate surgery and the new Robotic surgery. If I must, then that's the way I'll go! Thanks again!


Wishing you the best and a positive attitude makes all the difference in the world. We have a friend, who had esophagus cancer and only 11% survive it but he was positive too and he is one of the 11%.    You have never seen such a large scar in your life (bigger yet than heart surgery) but he is mountain climbing again and will be 70 next year plus he is bell ringing again too in the churches of Wales which takes a lot of force so the scar has healed up completely too.


----------



## taffy19

*Re: Ask you Doctor about Flomax*



			
				RonaldCol said:
			
		

> I haven't checked with my urologist but it was he who prescribed flomax. A grammar school friend who is a practicing cardiologist told me that he doesn't take flomax. He's the same age as me (57). He told me he takes some product for his balding head of hair that has some drugs in it that functions similarly to what flomax does.
> 
> I dislike ingesting chemicals, particularly prescription drugs, as a matter of policy. Don't like the side effects and would prefer to tackle health problems via natural remedies. The internet is a wealth of information and that is how I found the benefits of saw palmetto. I would think that the abnormally high PSA reading upon discontinuation of the use of saw palmetto would only be a temporary phenomenon; the body's PSA reading would stabilize after a short period of not using saw palmetto and the reading would return to normalcy. Of course, this is my conjecture.


 


My DH buys a product "Super Beta Prostate) that contains Beta sitosterols as a precaution for the prostrate. We read the book they advertised on TV and it supposedly also lowers cholesterol, if I remember right.*[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]What are Beta-sitosterols?[/FONT]*[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Beta-sitosterol is the active sterol ingredient in saw palmetto berries, which have been used for years as a supplement to support prostate health. In order to obtain the same amounts of beta-sitosterols contained in this formula, you would have to take over one hundred saw palmetto capsules![/FONT]​If you contemplate ordering it, ask for the book also as they advertise that if you order the product from the TV infomercial. It was interesting to read and I read it too.

 I hope this is not an advertisement but I have nothing to do with this company. Please, delete this post, if not allowed.


----------



## nkldavy

*From the University of Pennsylvania ...*

... here's one who believes in early testing, and with good news if you do.  See:

http://www.kyw1060.com/pages/62657.php

Uncle Davey


----------



## bcurtis35

breezylawn said:


> Oh boy,  blood in my urine, not a good sign...off to the doc at my wife's insistance...physician finds small lump on my prostate....now I'm off to urologist....has anyone had this problem?  Is this the beginning of prostate cancer????  Should I start making out my will???  Blood test results have not come back, and I'm being pre-mature, but my wife swears by this site and how helpful everyone is...any advice?  Any holistic methods in the meantime?
> Bill



Breezylawn,

Don't panic.  First question? What's your PSA?  If it is over 4.0 you definitely want to get a biopsy to determine if you have prostate cancer, and how much. If you don't know what it is ask your urologist.  There are a lot of causes  that could cause blood in the urine...some bad some not so bad.  In any case, your wife is right.  Find out.  The docs estimate 85% of the males in the US will have cancer in the prostate.  The good news is that it usually is a very slow developing cancer taking as long as 25 years before it is a problem.  

I was diagnosed with cancer of the Prostate 4 years and and had the radioactive seeds implanted and my PSA went from 5.0 to .025 and has stayed that way since the operation.

When you get the answers repost and we can give you answers and places on the Internet to become educated

Best of luck

Brad Curtis




h


----------



## Wonka

*Prostrate Cancer - Is 4.0 the threshold?*

This is a very good thread for male TUG members.  I'm posting to "bump" it and keep it active for others that may not have read the thread.

I'm not sure when I had my last PSA, we've moved too many times, and there have been far too many disruptions in our life.

We moved to FL 2-1/2 years ago and I finally found a local physician that accepts our insurance plan, although I'm probably going to look for another.  She's Indian, and it's hard to understand her.  Anyway, I had a very limited physical last week.  I thought it would be more comprehensive.  All I got was blood work, listening to my chest, and a digital prostrate scan.  I was surprised a digital scan meant finger digits in a glove inserted into the rear end (LOL).  Anyway, I learned my cholesterol was elevated somewhat.  She said to avoid cheese.  I'm not sure why, I don't eat that much cheese...but do like it.  And, there was no mention of a prostrate problem and the reading wasn't given to me.  I plan on stopping by the Dr office tomorrow to obtain the reading after reading this thread.  I did go online, and I'm not sure a reading of 4.0 is the baseline.  It seems that some physicians believe it needs to be age-adjusted.  Does anyone have any input on this?


----------



## Bruce W

*PSA*

One thing I found out is that unless the same Lab is used on each test there can be differences in the results. I had a PSA that was just a bit over 4, the Doctor said to take it again and sent it to the same Lab as the last one, and the results were 2. something, just like the last one. I know the question could come up about maybe the low lab is wrong, but, for trending, it was ok. I did have a biopsy anyway, and it was ok.


Re the Flomax, one Tugger said that it reduced the size of the prostate. I was under the impression that it shrinks the membrane around the urethra to allow better flow. I think that Avodart and similar drugs reduce the prostate.

Any "experts"?


----------



## Wonka

Bruce W said:


> One thing I found out is that unless the same Lab is used on each test there can be differences in the results. I had a PSA that was just a bit over 4, the Doctor said to take it again and sent it to the same Lab as the last one, and the results were 2. something, just like the last one. I know the question could come up about maybe the low lab is wrong, but, for trending, it was ok. I did have a biopsy anyway, and it was ok.
> 
> 
> Re the Flomax, one Tugger said that it reduced the size of the prostate. I was under the impression that it shrinks the membrane around the urethra to allow better flow. I think that Avodart and similar drugs reduce the prostate.
> 
> Any "experts"?



Why would you have a biopsy done if the PSA was just a "bit over 4".  I thought that was in the tolerance range?
Did the Dr. suggest a biopsy, or did the digital test show something?


----------



## Bruce W

My GP did the "glove test" and said it was a bit enlarged and because of the PSA , sent me to a urologist. He did the biopsy. It was nothing, just sounded like a staple gun, very little discomfort. At the time I felt it was worth checking it out.


----------



## KenK

John:
   I think you ought to ask the Dr for a PSA  test.  The number matters, but what really matters is the difference between readings over a period of time.

    Four might be fine.  So might 5.  But if the reading a few years ago was 4, and the now reads 8 or 12, that's something they consider as a warning.....it's the difference between readings.

    It might not mean ca, but it makes it necessary to do more checking.  

     Many Drs check of the slot for PSA when they give an exam that includes blood testing...for blood fats, liver functions, blood cell counts & so on.

    If you ever had a blood test, and have the results somewhere in your paperwork, maybe there is a PSA number?


----------



## bogey21

Wonka said:


> Why would you have a biopsy done if the PSA was just a "bit over 4".  I thought that was in the tolerance range?



Caught my cancer when PSA went from 1 to 2.75 in 11 months.  My urologist focuses more on doubling time than any absolute level.

GEORGE


----------



## Wonka

KenK said:


> John:
> I think you ought to ask the Dr for a PSA  test.  The number matters, but what really matters is the difference between readings over a period of time.
> 
> Four might be fine.  So might 5.  But if the reading a few years ago was 4, and the now reads 8 or 12, that's something they consider as a warning.....it's the difference between readings.
> 
> It might not mean ca, but it makes it necessary to do more checking.
> 
> Many Drs check of the slot for PSA when they give an exam that includes blood testing...for blood fats, liver functions, blood cell counts & so on.
> 
> If you ever had a blood test, and have the results somewhere in your paperwork, maybe there is a PSA number?



I had a PSA test, they just didn't provide the number.  I'll call them.


----------



## Loggie

My husband has had blood in his urine twice.  Both times he went to the urologist and everything was fine.  He had to take cipro both times.

Think positive!


----------



## rod

For what it is worth, this is my story of what happened after an increase in my prostate-specific antigen (PSA) that turned up during an annual physical exam.

The urologist I was referred to first put me on antibiotics for a period of time, then another PSA test.  The number was higher still, so the next step was an ultrasound, then a biopsy.

After the presence of prostate cancer was confirmed by the biopsy, the urologist provided me with a list of options; since I was relatively young (62) and in good health, with a Gleason score between 6 and 7, I was a candidate for any and all of the treatment options.

After considering the situation, I decided that I would go with radiation therapy; if further PSA tests indicated that the radiation had not been successful, there was always surgery as backup.  When I told the doctor this, he explained to me the flaw in my plan.  It seems that after the radiation therapy has been completed, the PSA tests are not to be trusted for at least 12 months.  So, it would be well over a year before we would know if surgery would be required despite the radiation therapy.

(The radiation is applied in such a way as to destroy the cancerous cells, but the radiation also does bad things to the otherwise healthy cells that make up the prostate, not to mention the surrounding tissues.  In response, these healthy prostate cells become inflamed and the PSA score will increase for a period of time.  It is necessary for everything to heal and stabilize before the PSA test results become trustworthy.)

So, to make a long story short, I elected for immediate surgery using the da Vinci technique 2-1/2 years ago.  Since the incisions healed, I have been returning to the urologist who did the surgery every 6 months for a follow-up.  So far my PSA levels have been nearly undetectable, and this makes the doctor very happy; and when he tells me we have reason to be very happy, then I am very happy.


----------



## Miss Marty

*Biosafe*

Our family uses "Biosafe Home Testing Kits" in between yearly lab work.
We have used the kits to test for Cholesterol, Diabetes & Prostate PSA
Accurate and Easy to Use -  Buy -  stick - mail - wait for test results.


----------



## bogey21

rod said:


> After considering the situation, I decided that I would go with radiation therapy; if further PSA tests indicated that the radiation had not been successful, *there was always surgery as backup* [Emphasis Added].



I'm not sure this statement is correct.  Could be, but my recollection is that surgery is not an option after failed radiation.  In my case I opted for cryo-surgery (freezing the prostate to minus 140 degrees) on one side of my prostate after the cancer reappeared there.  That was a couple of years ago and I have been clean since.  

GEORGE


----------



## AwayWeGo

*Or, As Andy Sipowicz Always Called It . . .*



 
. . . _prostrate_ problems.​
Fortunately P.A.A. John Irwin . . . 






. . . was on hand to correct Andy's pronunciation.
( In a polite & respectful manner. )​
-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## easyrider

I went in to the doctor last year with a prostrate issue. This problem seemed to happen very quickly like a food poisoning. The doctor did a prostrate examination ( irregular hardend prostate) and psa test (9.5) and sent me to the urologist. The urologist concurred except only half my prostate was hard and my psa had dropped to under 6. I started drinking this stuff called fequensea in the first week after my problem and lots of cranberry juice. My prostrate is now normal feeling and my psa under 1.5. I wouldn't do a biopsy because I felt that I am getting better and that my problem came on so fast that it was an infection. So after 5 finger examinations and 3 psa test the doctor just wants to check my prostrate every 6 months.

 The frequency juice is a phytoplanton concentration. I'm kind of a skeptic but think it may have helped. Also a friend of mine is using a product called manatek and feels it has helped him stay in remission from lymph node problems. Another friend drinks xango after breast cancer. 
I don't know the real science about all this stuff but from my personal experience I'm willing to try holistic approaches. If you want more info google frequensea or manatek. I drank 2 ounces a day for two months then one ounce a day for two months and then a half ounce a day for two months. Now I only drink cranberry juice and no frequensea. 

I hope every thing works out your way. Good Luck.


----------



## Mel7706

*Yes!!  you should have a will.*

The will is necessary regardless of your current health status. Good luck on your treatment!


----------



## Miss Marty

*Hey Guys...anyone having prostate problems?*

*
The Drive Against Prostate Cancer*

The Drive vehicles, owned by The Drive Against Prostate Cancer, LLC, 
are sleek 39-foot mobile screening units, touring the country to offer 
FREE prostate cancer screenings. 

Over 56,000 men have been screened at the Drive Against Prostate 
Cancer so far, and we’ll be screening thousands more this year.

The Drive provides FREE and CONFIDENTIAL screenings in a friendly environment, where men can have free snacks and watch the game 
on the big screen TV while they wait. 

Most days, there is little or no wait which means you’ll be in and out of 
The Drive in less than 20 minutes. No appointments or insurance are necessary. Screenings are free, in part, thanks to Siemens Diagnostics 
for donating the test kits and University of Michigan Labs for analyzing 
the PSA test.

For More Details & Full Schedule

http://www.fightprostatecancer.org/site/Calendar?view=MonthGrid


----------



## Miss Marty

*Re: Hey Guys...anyone having prostate problems?*

Remember to have your "PSA Total" Tested!


----------



## pcgirl54

*For the Older gentleman*

Breezylawn,

My Dad is 90 and takes Casodex daily and an injection every 4 months to eliminate the 10% of the cancer that Casodex does not take care of. He has been on this drug for 4 years with a PSA of 2.0 from 83. It has been monitored with scans and had excellent results as the cancer is contained to the prostate. 

We now need to modifiy the treatment since it has recently started to climb. He will have scan tests this week to see if the cancer has spread. His doc says that over time sometimes you become immune to Casodex. So we will see what the best course of action for someone who is 90 after finding out the test results.

 Dad had not been to a doc in more than 20 years. He had an incident of kidney failure a few years before and wears a superpubic tube.  He was not feeling well and told no one because he was caring for my mother at home who had Alzheimers. I thought he had pneumonia but he was in kidney failure. 

I forced him to go to the doctor and asked them to do a PSA screen which my brother thought was silly due to Dad's age. This  is the test showed he had prostate cancer with a score of 83. Since then my brother and husband have had normal PSA screenings.

There are so many options for you because you are far younger than he. Glad you went for the test. Too many men do not have regular physicals or ignore medical issues that need to be addressed sooner.  Good that you went and glad that you posted in hopes other members will have a PSA screening. 

Please keep us posted. You will make the decision that is right for you.


----------



## Jaybee

*...The rest of the story....?*

I wish Breezylawn had kept us posted, as promised. No news since July of '06?  I'd be very interested to learn how things went for him and what he opted for. Does anyone know?

My husband has had prostate exams a couple of time in past years, when his PSA count was high, but it was not a cause for concern.  It's been quite a long time, but he had a physical recently, and his Internist sent him to a Urologist. His count last time was 11.5, so he's scheduled for a biopsy next week.  He goes to doctors frequently for heart problems, and various other things, but he hadn't had a general physical in 4 yrs., so I'm very glad I urged him to do that. (Better late than.....)

This has been an educational thread to read, and I thank you all for your input.


----------



## AwayWeGo

*My Prostate Was O. K. . . .*

. . . until I started reading this discussion topic. 

Now I'm starting to feel some twinges.  Sheesh. 

The doctor who did my medicare physical in January said to come back for a new PSA test in June.  Since that's now 2 months overdue, I guess I'll go for the retest pretty soon. 

It's always something. 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## rapmarks

My oncologist told me that if an 80 year old comes in wanting to be treated for prostate cancer, they won't treat him unless he brings his father along.  In other words, it takes so long to kill you, you will outlive it.  
But then you read about the cases of those who died from it, and you wonder.


----------



## Jaybee

I neglected to mention that our internist used the term "prostrate" several times, which makes me wonder about his credentials.  I hope he wasn't predicting the future! Jean


----------



## AwayWeGo

*Better Late Than Never.*

OK, I showed up at the doctor's office today for my follow-up PSA blood test that I was spozed to get done 2 months ago. 

_Don't Call Us_, they said, _We'll Call You_. 

( Oh goody.  I can hardly wait. )

I don't know how much longer I would have conveniently "forgotten" without all these reminders right here on TUG-BBS. 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## AwayWeGo

*Internist, Shminternist.*




Jaybee said:


> I neglected to mention that our internist used the term "prostrate" several times, which makes me wonder about his credentials.


If your internist says _prostrate_ -- no problem. 

If your urologist says _prostrate_ -- _b-i-g_ problem. 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## bogey21

easyrider said:


> I wouldn't do a biopsy because I felt that I am getting better and that my problem came on so fast that it was an infection.



You could be right but I wouldn't shy away from having a biopsy.  What if you actually have prostate cancer and don't have the biopsy?  I've had biopsies three times and don't consider the procedure at all painful.  Just relax, watch the monitor and carry on a conversation with the urologist.  To me the actual taking of the tissue samples feels like getting your ear pierced. No big deal.

George


----------



## AwayWeGo

*Saw Palmetto Any Good ?*

Do those saw palmetto dietary supplements provide any noticeable prostate health benefits ? 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## Jaybee

Alan...LOL!  I'm sure you're right.  I hadn't thought of it that way.  Jean



AwayWeGo said:


> If your internist says _prostrate_ -- no problem.
> 
> If your urologist says _prostrate_ -- _b-i-g_ problem.
> 
> -- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## isisdave

I just read someone's description of the biopsy experience as similar to having six earrings installed.  I've always shied away from piercings, but if that's all it is, I may reconsider.


----------



## easyrider

I read an article about how an infection could spread by having a biopsy done, so I decided to wait it out. From what I read my symptom's were in line with an infection. This disagreement with my doctor wasn't the first and wont be the last. 
On a really courageous story our sister in law, Terry, finally passed away from her lung cancer.  www.mybumpintheroad.com
sad deal......


----------



## taffy19

easyrider said:


> I read an article about how an infection could spread by having a biopsy done, so I decided to wait it out. From what I read my symptom's were in line with an infection. This disagreement with my doctor wasn't the first and wont be the last.
> On a really courageous story our sister in law, Terry, finally passed away from her lung cancer.  www.mybumpintheroad.com
> sad deal......


What a very sad story and it made me cry and how sad for the children to lose their Mom so young.  It must be so hard to lose someone in the family you love so much.  My condolences to you, easyrider.


----------



## T_R_Oglodyte

Jaybee said:


> I neglected to mention that our internist used the term "prostrate" several times, which makes me wonder about his credentials.  I hope he wasn't predicting the future! Jean



In the classic hymn "Crown Him with many Crowns", one of the lines in the first verse is _"Let Angels prostrate fall"_.  I can never hear that phrase without thinking _"Let angels' prostates fall"_.  I just can't help it.


----------



## M. Henley

*Not Now*

Been taking the infamous Avodart for a couple of years.  Shrunk it right up!!


----------



## Bruce W

*A voice from long ago*

Great to see you post again, Melvin. How are things going down there in Kentucky?

Bruce W


----------



## AwayWeGo

*Getting My Money's Worth On Those Lab Tests.*




AwayWeGo said:


> Oh goody.  I can hardly wait.


I blew an 11 on PSA retest -- up from 3*.*9 in January. 

That gets me an appointment tomorrow with the urologist.  

It's always something. 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## AwayWeGo

*Right Hymnal.  Wrong Page.*




T_R_Oglodyte said:


> In the classic hymn "Crown Him with many Crowns", one of the lines in the first verse is _"Let Angels prostrate fall"_.  I can never hear that phrase without thinking _"Let angels' prostates fall"_.  I just can't help it.


I think the prostatic angels are featured in a different hymn -- All Hail The Power Of Jesus' Name (not that there's anything wrong with Crown Him With Many Crowns.) 

( Ineffably Sublime, No? )

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## suzanne

Good luck with everything. Hubby was just told on Friday, his 64th birthday he has lymphoma. He goes in Monday for biopsy to determine what type so they will know what type of treatment he will need. He is freaking out as he has never had any kind of health problem until now. The only symtoms he has is swelling in the pelvic & Scrotum area. They did CT scan and it showed the lymph glands were swollen and the Oncologist said it is lymphoma that sometimes there are no symtoms. They told us that lymphoma is one of the most treatable and curable of all cancers so we are holding on to that for now. Please keep him in your prayers.

Suzanne


----------



## Jaybee

Steve, you have a strange and wonderful mind! :hysterical: 



T_R_Oglodyte said:


> In the classic hymn "Crown Him with many Crowns", one of the lines in the first verse is _"Let Angels prostrate fall"_.  I can never hear that phrase without thinking _"Let angels' prostates fall"_.  I just can't help it.


----------



## Jaybee

Alan, if it's true that reading this thread inspired you to get your PSA checked, then another big "Hooray" for Tug.
I wish you the best .  Jean



AwayWeGo said:


> I blew an 11 on PSA retest -- up from 3*.*9 in January.
> 
> That gets me an appointment tomorrow with the urologist.
> 
> It's always something.
> 
> -- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## Kay H

This is a good thread.  It may have saved a few lives.  At least it made several go get checked.


----------



## Jennie

I have been purchasing and using thousands of dollars worth of vitamins and supplements every year from the Life Extension Foundation (LEF) in Florida. They have been in existence for over 40 years and are a very reputable company. You can see their history and credentials at their web site: www.lef.org

I do not have any financial or other connection with this company and do not receive any compensation for referring people to them. I am just a very satisfied customer. I receive many differnt health related newsletters and listen to health-related nationally syndicated radio talk shows on a regular basis (e.g. Dr. Ronald Hoffman, Dr. Ash, Dr. Vagnini, the Willner Window). They are very reputable companies/doctors based mainly in New York City, near where I live. The information provided by the Life Extension Foundation is in tune with what these doctors discuss and recommend. 

My husband, brother-in-law, and many of our male friends and co-workers  (age 45 to 88) have used LEF prostate formula for years and not one of them has had any prostate health issues to date. The price of the LEF products is the same or lower than most similar products sold in health food stores and major chains such as The Vitamin Shoppe and GNC.  I trust the quality and purity of the LEF products completely. They do a great of research and update their products often based upon new findings from around the world. In Europe, where most countries have socialized medicine, large amounts of money are spent on research about prescrition medicines and natural alternatives.

Here's info from their web site and member handbook:

"The prostate gland is located just below the urinary bladder. The base or top of the prostate is intimately connected to the urinary bladder sphincter, or valve. The urethra, or channel for voiding of urine, passes through the center of the prostate. The apex or lower end of the prostate is connected to the penis. 

The prostate of a baby boy is about the size of a pea. By age 21-30, the normal male will have a prostate gland that weighs 20 plus or minus 6 grams, which remains constant unless benign prostatic hypertrophy begins.1 Nearly 60% of men between the ages of 40 and 59 already suffer from an enlarging prostate, and at 80 years of age, approximately 80% of men will have an enlarged prostate gland.

A huge percentage of men over age 50 suffer from prostate-induced discomforts. The Ultra Natural Prostate Formula contains the most scientifically substantiated nutrients to help protect the prostate gland and maintain its healthy function.* 

Recently added to the formulas are standardized lignans from flax and the Norway spruce trees. These lignans convert to enterolactones in the intestine that are then absorbed into the bloodstream where they provide significant biological effects. Enterolactones have demonstrated anti-estrogen and anti-DHT effects that are of particular importance for the aging prostate gland.

The eight other active ingredients in Ultra Natural Prostate Formula are:

5-LOXIN® boswellia extract. Published studies show that normal aging and poor diet cause levels of a dangerous enzyme (5-lipoxygenase) to increase, which can affect prostate cells. 5-LOXIN® is a patented extract from the boswellia plant that  has been shown to suppress 5-lipoxygenase and other pro-inflammatory factors.

Nettle root extract (Urtica dioica). In aging men, too much testosterone is converted to estrogen. Prostate cells are sensitive to estrogen’s growth stimulatory effects. Nettle rood helps protect prostate cells against the excess estrogen levels. 

Saw palmetto extract. A number of normal biological events in aging men affect prostate function and structure. Saw palmetto has been shown to interfere with DHT activity in the prostate, inhibit the alpha-adrenergic receptor inhibitor (to support normal urinary flow) and help control inflammatory actions in the prostate gland. 

Pygeum. Normal aging results in levels of certain prostaglandins increasing in the prostate gland. Pygeum africanum extract helps suppress these prostaglandins, keeping the prostate gland placid and promoting prostate comfort. 

Beta-sitosterol. The most biologically active constituent of pygeum is beta-sitosterol. It is more cost effective to obtain beta-sitosterol from other plant sources for inclusion in a prostate support formula. 

Cernitin®. This European pollen extract has been shown to  relax smooth muscle tone of the urethra, counteract DHT, and help regulate inflammatory reactions. 

Boron. This mineral helps protect bones, and has been shown to slow elevation of PSA, most probably by protecting against protein-degrading enzymes in the prostate gland. 

Lycopene. This carotenoid most commonly associated with tomato sauce helps maintain healthy DNA gene function in prostate cells. 

*Here's what their current prostate formula contains*:

Ultra Natural Prostate with 5-Loxin® and Standardized Lignans
60 softgels
Serving Size 2 softgels
Servings Per Container 30 (about $28. for a one month supply)
Take two softgels daily divided between morning and evening, with or without food, or as recommended by a healthcare practitioner.

Amount Per Serving 

Saw Palmetto (Serenoa repens) (berries) CO2 extract 320 mg
 [std to 85%-95% free fatty acids and sterols (272 mg)]

Cernitin® Flower Pollen extract (Secale cereale L.) 252 mg

5-Loxin® (Boswellia serrata) extract (gum resin) [std. to 70 mg

Acetyl-11-keto-ß-boswellic acid (AKBA) minimum 30% (21 mg)]

Stinging nettle extract (Urtica dioica) (root) 240 mg

Pygeum (Pygeum africanum) extract (bark) 100 mg
[std. to 11.7% sterols as beta-sitosterol (11.7 mg)]

Lycopene (from tomato extract) 10 mg

Phytosterol Complex [std. to 59% free total sterols 678 mg
(400 mg) and 26.6% free beta-sitosterol (180 mg)]

Proprietary Enterolactone Precursors Blend
 20.15 mg contains
HMRlignan™ Norway spruce (Picea abies) 
lignan extract (knot wood) [std. to 90% Hydroxymatairesinol potassium acetate complex]; 
ActiFlax™ Flax Lignan (Linum Usitatissimum L.) extract (seed) [std. to 40% Secoisolariciresinol diglucoside]

Boron (from boron citrate, glycinate, and aspartate)
3 mg

Rosemary (Rosmarinus officinalis) extract
 800 mcg

Other ingredients: gelatin, glycerine, pumpkin seed oil, water, lecithin, beeswax. 

Contains soybeans. This product contains NO milk, egg, fish, peanuts, crustacean shellfish, tree nuts, wheat, yeast, gluten, corn, or rice. Contains NO artificial sweeteners, flavors, colors, or preservatives.


5-Loxin® is a registered trademark of P.L. Thomas & Co., Inc. U.S. patents pending.
ActiFlax™ is a trademark of Pharma Science Nutrients, Inc., all rights reserved
HMRlignan™ is a trademark used under sublicense from Linnea S.A. 




Warnings 

All Contents Copyright © 1995-2008 Life Extension Foundation All rights reserved.

These statements have not been evaluated by the FDA. These products are not intended to diagnose, treat, cure or prevent any disease. The information provided on this site is for informational purposes only and is not intended as a substitute for advice from your physician or other health care professional or any information contained on or in any product label or packaging. You should not use the information on this site for diagnosis or treatment of any health problem or for prescription of any medication or other treatment. You should consult with a healthcare professional before starting any diet, exercise or supplementation program, before taking any medication, or if you have or suspect you might have a health problem. You should not stop taking any medication without first consulting your physician.


----------



## AwayWeGo

*Best Wishes For Good Health.*




Bruce W said:


> How are things going down there in Kentucky?


More to the point, how's it going down there with your prostate ? 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## bogey21

AwayWeGo said:


> I blew an 11 on PSA retest -- up from 3*.*9 in January.
> 
> That gets me an appointment tomorrow with the urologist.



ALAN - I applaud your sense of urgency.  Even though Prostate Cancer is usually slow growing, moving on it quickly is the way to go.  Good Luck!!

GEORGE


----------



## M. Henley

*Financial Problems*

Kentucky is, like many other states, having financial problems, exacerbated by the House being Democrat controlled and the Senate Republican controlled, resulting in a large degree of gridlock in solving problems, both financial and humanitarian.
 




Bruce W said:


> Great to see you post again, Melvin. How are things going down there in Kentucky?
> 
> Bruce W


----------



## M. Henley

*O.K.*

Last month's annual physical gave a 2.9 PSA reading.
A year ago biopsy report was clear.  Thus far have dodged the bullet.
Will be 73 on the 25th and have never been in a hospital (not even when I was born).
 



AwayWeGo said:


> More to the point, how's it going down there with your prostate ?
> 
> -- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## AwayWeGo

*Good Going.  Whatever You're Doing, Keep It Up.*




M. Henley said:


> Last month's annual physical gave a 2.9 PSA reading.


_Whoa !_  Sounds like positive news. 

I'd pay big bux to get mine down to 2*.*9 -- & come to think of it, I _am_ paying big bux (well, me & Medicare & Blue Cross, but it still adds up to big bux). 

I am pretty sure I have some treatment coming up in the very near future, as in this possibly afternoon, depending on what the doctor says after he looks at yesterday's PSA retest result & combines that with his findings from yesterday's exam. 

Without getting too far ahead of myself, I suppose I could be looking at some more diagnostics too (that remains to be seen) -- so here's hoping whatever the urologist has in store for me brings about some good results like yours. 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## AwayWeGo

*Biopsy.*

Blew 6*.*9 on PSA retest. 

That gets me a biopsy next week -- glad they were able to schedule it promptly. 

I'm not expecting the experience to be much fun. 

On the whole, I think I'd rather sign up for back-to-back timeshare sales presentations. 

So it goes. 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## isisdave

Actually, it's a lot quicker than a TS presentation, and almost certainly won't run overtime.  And your host will probably have a better sense of humor. 

If you had to pay your own way, you'd find it costs more than a Hawaiian TS's annual MF, though.


----------



## AwayWeGo

*Background Music.*




T_R_Oglodyte said:


> In the classic hymn "Crown Him with many Crowns", one of the lines in the first verse is _"Let Angels prostrate fall"_.


I suppose that's the tune I'll be humming along to myself while the doctor is doing the biopsy. 

I'm hoping it will _not_ be the tune the doctor is humming to himself while he's doing the biopsy. 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## Jaybee

OK, guys.  It must be time to start this up again..or to continue it.  It has been very educational, and I'm so glad I read all the posts.
We went back to the Urologist today, for the results of Phil's biopsy, and it turns out he also tested positive for cancer. His Gleason score was 6, and he'll have a bladder screening in a couple of weeks, and then, if that's clear, they'll schedule him for cryo-surgery in October.
We kept running into scheduling problems because of our TS trips, and a son's wedding in October.  The Receptionist just shook her head, and said, "You guys don't really have time for this, do you?"
I am really grateful that out Internist sent Phil to the Urologist.  Like Alan, he'd been "conveniently" forgetting to get checked for waaay too long.  
And thanks to all of you for sharing your experiences, and allaying a lot of fear.  Hugs to you all... Jean


----------



## AwayWeGo

*Young Men & Old Men.*

When young men get together, they frequently start talking about women's body parts. 

When old men get together, they frequently start talking about men's body parts. 

Getting old is not for sissies. 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## bogey21

AwayWeGo said:


> Blew 6*.*9 on PSA retest.



3.9 to 6.9 probably means very treatable cancer.  Don't take a negative biopsy as gospel.  They don't always find it first time.  You should also be reading up on treatment options before your biopsy.  Reason is that many urologists will try to rush you into *their* treatment area of expertise.  It may not be your choice.  Today there are 2 or 3 different types of surgery, 2 or 3 types of radiation, and cryo.  For example I had both IMRT and High Dose Rate Radiation.  After a minor recurrance I had Cryo on one side of the prostate and now have been cancer free over 3 years.  My point is that there are numerous treatment options.  Each has their pluses and minuses.  Understanding them before your urologist tries to direct you into *his* choice of treatment  is immensely useful.

George


----------



## pianodinosaur

*Timesharing Urologist*

I am a board certified urologist.  Prostate problems are very common.  Don't jump to conclusions or base your decisions on the latest fad shown on TV.  If you are having problems with urination, see your physician.  It is very difficult to be objective about yourself or a family member.  I cannot give medical advice without a complete history and physical examination.  I am sure that most other physicians would agree.


----------



## mamiecarter

*As Women we have pregnancy, menapause, assorted reproductive system CA to cope with*

If it is not one thing it's another. Women have more of the big reproduction related problems to deal with but men have to face life's darker side with THE PROSTATE. I am a nurse so I know.

  See your urologist right away if you have a symptom. Get an annual PSA test.Fortunately most things that go wrong are not cancer and even if they are they are usually not one of the more lethal forms that require surgery.


----------



## AwayWeGo

*No Problems -- Just High P. S. A. Score.*




pianodinosaur said:


> If you are having problems with urination, see your physician.


Shux, I wasn't having any problems at all -- just a PSA score of 3*.*9 score in January, 11 in August, then 6*.*9 a week later on retest. 

But once that remote & hidden area of my anatomy became a focus of medical attention, I started becoming physically aware of it bigtime -- as though it had swelled up like a beach ball when in reality it doubtless was more like a grapefruit. 

This afternoon when I was waiting for the urologist, they dressed me up in a paper suit & left me there in the ultrasound-biopsy room  long enough to have time to read the calendar-size Astra-Zeneca chart on the wall.  The chart mostly had to do with prostate cancer, but it mentioned also that elevated PSA numbers can come from other things -- e.g., prostate infections, benign prostate enlargement, sexual intercourse, etc. 

Now I won't deny I'm a sexy & semi-irresistable guy for my age (65), but somehow I doubt that the amount of action I'm involved in is what accounts for my elevated PSA numbers. 

By & by the doctor & an assistant came in & administered the procedure.  When they turned me loose I would have guessed they had been working me with their little machine for 1/2 hour or so.  The Chief Staff later said I was only in there for a few minutes.  Time drags when I'm having the opposite of fun. 

Biopsy results are spozed to be back in a week.  The pathology lab is up in Connecticut somewhere.  (Go figure.)  So for the next few days I'm to take it easy & not get myself wrapped around the axle with worry -- basically, not get ahead of myself on any of this & just take things a day at a time. 

_Hey There, Doc Pianodinasaur_ -- Are you (or were you) affiliated with Pianosaurus ?  ( Just wondering. )

_Odd Astra-Zeneca Note_*:* My outstanding solid titanium dental implant that I got last year comes from a different division of Astra-Zeneca. 

Coincidence ? 

I think so. 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## Miss Marty

*Insurance - Medicare - RX*

_
Alan_

Did your Doctor give you a RX for an antibiotic to prevent infection 
from the biopsy? Leva quin 500mg Cost $66.00 for 3 tablets w/o Ins


----------



## AwayWeGo

*Cipro.*




Marty Giggard said:


> _
> Alan_
> 
> Did your Doctor give you a RX for an antibiotic to prevent infection
> from the biopsy? Leva quin 500mg Cost $66.00 for 3 tablets w/o Ins


Cipro Wednesday, Cipro Thursday, & Cipro Friday. 

1*,*000 mg. XR 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## AwayWeGo

*Getting Old Is Not For Sissies.*

Click here for a brief animated featurette on the subject. 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## mamiecarter

*An elevated PSA is a reminder that we are all mortal*

To quote Emily Dickinson: "Mortality is fatal" 
or
None of us gets out of this world alive (who said that first)

But good health care postpones the inevitable.


----------



## Jaybee

Alan, I pray for positive results from your biopsyl  I intend to preach th importance of the PSA tests to our sons, and any other adult male who is dumb enough to come within my range. LOL!

There should probably be a campaign as effective as the Susan B. Koman campaign against breast cancer, for the prostate check.  They are certainly as important as a mammogram, ya' think? Jean


----------



## AwayWeGo

*I Am Positively Hoping For Negative Findings.*




Jaybee said:


> Alan, I pray for positive results from your biopsyl  I intend to preach th importance of the PSA tests to our sons, and any other adult male who is dumb enough to come within my range. LOL!
> 
> There should probably be a campaign as effective as the Susan B. Koman campaign against breast cancer, for the prostate check.  They are certainly as important as a mammogram, ya' think? Jean


Thanks, Jean.  Every good wish is much appreciated. 

I positively am going to get results -- in a week or so.  Till then I am avoiding wrapping myself around the axle with anxiety.  That is, the tissue samples are what they are & the cell examination -- if done accurately -- will show what it shows.  If it's something bad, I'd be a major serious fool to let whatever that is get me down prematurely.  One day at a time is just about the right pace for taking whatever life has in store. 

So the question is, will the test result be negative for anything bad on the 1 hand, or on the other hand will it be positive for something that means trouble? 

That is to say, the most positive (i.e., favorable) finding will be a test result that's negative for abnormal cells, torqued tissue, wrecked organs, etc. 

Remember on the Seinfeld show when George Costanza was worried over a tiny white spot on his lip?  After suffering major serious anxiety, George went to a doctor, who biopsied the questionable spot.  In time, the doctor's office phoned George with the news that the test result was negative.  George was beside himself.  "Negative?  My God!  Am I going to die?  Oh no, oh no, oh no!  My test was negative!  What am I going to do?" 

"George, you idiot," Jerry said.  "Negative means they didn't find anything bad.  You're OK."  

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## AwayWeGo

*Dang.*

Not negative. 

I'm supposed to get treatment recommendations next week. 

Nothing like a little cancer diagnosis to reinforce my gratitude for Medicare & Blue Cross (& everything else).  

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## Kay H

Good luck with your decision making.  I believe you will have several options to choose from.  Time to scour the net for latest info.


----------



## JudyH

Surviving Prostate Cancer: What You Need to Know to Make Informed Decisions
by E. Fuller Torrey, E. Fuller Torrey, M.D. - Health & Fitness - 2008 - 304 pages

This book is great.  I heard him on the Diane Rehm Show when it came out.  He had it also.  I got it for hubby.

Wishing you lots of luck.


----------



## taffy19

Kay H said:


> Good luck with your decision making. I believe you will have several options to choose from. Time to scour the net for latest info.


One thing is good that they are constantly advancing with better treatments that do less damage in the surrounding area.  We have a dear neighbor who had prostrate cancer and he is alive and well at least five years later because they found it early. 

Thank goodness you can scour the Internet for many answers and you can get a second opinion too.  I wish you the best, Alan.  I am glad you are well covered by insurance so you don't need to worry about big medical bills.


----------



## AwayWeGo

*Thank You.*




JudyH said:


> Surviving Prostate Cancer: What You Need to Know to Make Informed Decisions
> by E. Fuller Torrey, E. Fuller Torrey, M.D. - Health & Fitness - 2008 - 304 pages
> 
> This book is great.  I heard him on the Diane Rehm Show when it came out.  He had it also.  I got it for hubby.
> 
> Wishing you lots of luck.


Thanks for the good wishes, & thanks also for the book recommendation.  I just now ordered a copy from Amazon Dot Com. 

The dilemma now is whether to put myself in the hands of my doctor & follow whatever the doctor recommends on the 1 hand, or on the other hand to try to get semi-informed myself -- which could put me in the position of having that "little knowledge" which can be such a dangerous thing. 

I feel like the man with the mouthful of scalding hot coffee, in that whatever I do next will be the wrong thing -- that I'll be risking doing the wrong thing, making the wrong decision(s), following the wrong advice, etc.  And unlike buying a full-freight timeshare, there's no rescission period. 

Yet I've already been told that I'll be OK, that what I have is not only treatable but curable.  For that I am extremely grateful, & I wish everybody on TUG-BBS facing medical bad news could say the same. 

Here's to living 1 day at a time. 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## Gramma5

Alan,

I have been following this thread closely as my BIL also just got the news that his PSA is now an 8 after being a 4 in Mar. He is awaiting a biopsy on the 16th and we have been investigating options, in case, the news means surgery. They are assuming it will be that outcome. Anyway, since a close friend of ours just went thru this, they came to us for input. 
Our friend did extensive research especially once he decided to have surgery. His opinion was that the fairly new(last 10 yrs) Da Vinci Procedure robiotic surgery is getting excellent results with sparing nerve damage and quick recovery. The more challenging problem seems to be having his insurance cover this surgery by the best MD in NY that has been doing  this surgery for years. He is still young..58 and is in the medical field and is wondering about his hospital's medical insurance company, now that he has to probably use it for a significant surgery. It's a very challenging journey to walk.  We will be thinking of you and praying for wisdom as you make the necessary decisions you have to make.


----------



## MRSFUSSY

*Prostate treatment*

has anyone had Thermatrx Office Thermo Therapy?  Hubby has enlarged prostate & has had the usual treatments for many, many years.  Lately it has been the norm for him to get up during the night every hour to use the bathroom.  No fun.  He saw an advertisement in the newspaper for the above mentioned treatment.  Anyone ever heard of/or had this done.  Looking for more comfortable situation for him.  Thanks.


----------



## AwayWeGo

*Short Guys Get Less Prostate Cancer.*

That's according to a story in The New York Times. 

Who knew ? 

_Full Disclosure *:*_  I stand 6 feet & zero inches.  My father was six three.  His father was five five.  Before that, who knows ? 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## Charlie D.

I would like to ask you guys that have had those biopsies a question.  Do they put you to la-la land while they do it?  My dad is 80 and has a sky-high PSA result but none of the normal symptoms.  Three years in a row they have snipped samples and they come back negative.  None of those times they even offered him a pain pill.  Dad has a high threshold for pain but he says it still hurts.  I had that scope thing done at about 55 (five years ago) and the doctor asked me if I wanted to be out and I told him I wanted to be dreaming.  No pain – no problems – see you in 10 years.

Charlie D.


----------



## AwayWeGo

*Ouch.*

Minimal sedation, yes.  Anesthesia, no.  

That is, I was instructed to swallow 1 valium an hour before the biopsy & another 15 minutes before -- just to take the edge off, I suppose. 

The procedure started with 2 small injections of pain killer, administered via the same apparatus employed throughout the whole process.  

Then, after administering a half-dozen little semi-automated computer-controlled & sonogram-guided snips, the urologist said, "OK, halfway done.  You're doing great." 

_Only halfway done ?  Jeezy peazy !  _

When I look back, it wasn't all that bad but at the time it left me semi-shaken.  After just a few minutes of catching my breath, I was OK -- changed out of my paper robe & back into regular clothes & was out of there. 

Even so, of the events that mark the stages of life, this is the 1 in mine that signifies the official start of _Old Age_ any way you shake it.  Till now, geriatric decrepitude has merely been incipient.  Now it's here for real. 

If just the biopsy was such a thrill-ride, I can hardly wait for the surgery. 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## isisdave

I live 100 miles from UCLA, and go there for my annual prod.

If I lived in McLean VA, I'd get my second opinion at Johns Hopkins.
http://www.usnews.com/directories/hospitals/index_html/specialty+ihqurol

Remember that surgeons tend to recommend surgery, and radiologists recommend radiation. It's complicated.


----------



## AwayWeGo

*Have You Had This Before?  Well, You've Got It Again.*




isisdave said:


> Remember that surgeons tend to recommend surgery, and radiologists recommend radiation.


I never ask the barber if I need a haircut. 

I never ask the psychiatrist if I'm crazy.  

I never ask the tailor whether I need a new suit. 

I never ask H & R Block whether I should do my own taxes. 

I never ask the insurance agent if I have enough coverage. 

I never ask the guy at Firestone whether I need new radials. 

Etc.

That puts me in a bit of a bind when I need medical advice. 

For complicated cases Hopkins might be best, no question.  But for a straight-ahead case Hopkins will just assign me to some resident rather than their world-famous expert.   Apparently Hopkins is perfectly capable of bungling the routine cases just the same as Greater County Regional General.  

So my dilemma now is whether on the 1 hand to stick with my local doctor, who's part of a practice that comes highly recommended by other physicians including 2 at NIH who have what I have, or on the other hand to stiff the local guy & head on up to Johns Hopkins in search of whoever is _The Best_ at treating this.  Could be hunting a rabbit with an elephant gun, I don't know.  In this quandary, I am like the man with a mouthful of blazing hot coffee in that whatever I do next is apt to be the wrong thing.

Not only that, my highly regarded local doctor also happens to be the urologist who treated my father -- did a couple of transurethral resections on the old man, kept him going long enough to be killed by something else.  Loyalty to people who have earned it is not lightly to be set aside.

So it goes. 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## Jaybee

Are you talking about a Colonoscopy?   That isn't the same as a biopsy, as I'm sure you know.  I think the discomfort of THAT procedure would vastly exceed that of a biopsy.


----------



## Jaybee

Alan, you have such a wonderful outlook on life, and a most beautiful, fair, and logical attitude about things.  I know you'll make the decision that's best for you, and I wish us all a wonderful outcome.
Hmmm, I may be applying for a membership in your fan club.   I enjoy your insightful posts very much.
  Jean, waiting for the next episode......


----------



## mamiecarter

*Screening is important. Young men should do testicular self exams*

Testicular cancer typical hits young adult males, not older ones. Testicular self exams should be taught to all males at puberty. 

A new lump inside the testicular sack attached to a testicle is usually the first sign.  Testicular cancer caught early by regular self exam is almost 100% curable. More medical practices and even people like high school gym teachers are now teaching self exam to young men. It needs to become part of universally available health care education.


----------



## AwayWeGo

*Giblets.*




mamiecarter said:


> Testicular cancer typical hits young adult males, not older ones. Testicular self exams should be taught to all males at puberty.
> 
> A new lump inside the testicular sack attached to a testicle is usually the first sign.  Testicular cancer caught early by regular self exam is almost 100% curable. More medical practices and even people like high school gym teachers are now teaching self exam to young men. It needs to become part of universally available health care education.


An old friend for life had that -- got successful surgical treatment (i.e., he had 1 cut off).  Afterward, he was cancer-free for 25+ years. 

Then recently he turned up with cancer in 1 kidney -- well contained, no need for radiation, chemo, etc., following laparoscopic surgery in which he had the bad kidney taken out through a smallish incision near his navel.  

Via E-Mail I told him I won't worry too much about his having various redundant parts of his body cut off unless next time I see him he's sporting an eye patch & peg leg. 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## AwayWeGo

*Quick Delivery.*




AwayWeGo said:


> Thanks for the good wishes, & thanks also for the book recommendation.  I just now ordered a copy from Amazon Dot Com.


That was fast.  Wow. 

I ordered the book Thursday.  The letter carried delivered it Saturday. 

Now I've got to lay aside the sports book I'm halfway through & steel myself to read up on prostate cancer -- not my idea of fun reading. 

So it goes. 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## AwayWeGo

*Out Like A Light -- Never Felt A Thing.*




Jaybee said:


> Are you talking about a Colonoscopy?   That isn't the same as a biopsy, as I'm sure you know.  I think the discomfort of THAT procedure would vastly exceed that of a biopsy.


Colon cancer is what killed off my father & his mother, so even though I'm slow to catch on to some things I make sure I get the gastroenterologist to run that TV camera in through that garden hose & take a detailed look up where the sun don't shine at 3- to 5-year intervals. 

Each time, they've administered some powerful intravenous sedative -- they don't call it an anesthetic, just a sedative -- that completely wipes out any recollection or sensation of anything that went on.  

That is, they do the injection, they tell me to lay my head on the pillow & relax, & the next thing I know I'm in the recovery room & the whole thing has been over with for 45 minutes. 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## Charlie D.

Yes, it was a colonoscopy when I was knocked out.  The doc asked me if I wanted to be out or just at the state that I didn’t care what was happening.  I told him I wanted to be dreaming throughout the procedure.  It may have made a difference on how much of that stuff he injected into the line that they had in the back of my hand?  My first recall of anything after it was over was after I had my clothes on and my wife Pat said that I had done most of that myself.  I kidded her a little and asked if I had mentioned any women’s names during that period of time?  I am supposed to have it done again at the 10-year interval.  

I know very little about what you guys are going through.  My dad did some research and talked to his doc and what I could understand from him is that there was something about a slow spreading versus a fast spreading type?  He had already decided that at age 80 if he did have the slow variety that he wasn’t going to do anything about it.  Hopefully you have caught it soon enough that it can be knocked out in a hurry.  All of us are pulling for you!!

Charlie D.


----------



## Jaybee

Thankfully, the worst part of a Colonoscopy procedure is the preparation.  The rest is a piece of cake...so to speak.




AwayWeGo said:


> .
> That is, they do the injection, they tell me to lay my head on the pillow & relax, & the next thing I know I'm in the recovery room & the whole thing has been over with for 45 minutes.
> -- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## AwayWeGo

*Colonoscope Prep.*




Jaybee said:


> Thankfully, the worst part of a Colonoscopy procedure is the preparation.  The rest is a piece of cake...so to speak.


My late father's gastroenterologists made the old man drink a gallon of chalk dust mixed with RV-antifreeze -- at least that's what the concoction looks like.  That stuff cleans out the alimentary canal pronto -- no waiting. 

My G.I. specialist puts patients on a starvation diet for several days consisting of only clear liquids, followed by a regimen of powerful laxatives the day before going in to get scoped.  That also cleans out the alimentary canal. 

Either way, the prep is worse than the procedure. 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## Jaybee

Well, I wuz robbed!  Obviously, it must depend on what HMO or other insurance one has.  I thought my Gastroenterologist was a sadist,  and now I'm sure of it.  I had to do the 3 day liquid diet, the laxatives, the Fleet enema AND the freaking chalk dust/RV anti-freeze, besides.  That has to be overkill!
OK, I guess I'm through kvetching, until I think of something else.  Happy new week, everyone.


----------



## Charlie D.

Yes, the prep was not fun.

Charlie D.


----------



## bogey21

isisdave said:


> Remember that surgeons tend to recommend surgery, and radiologists recommend radiation. It's complicated.



This is almost always true.  Add urologists that perform cryo-surgery (freeze the prostate to death) will recommend cryo.  The main problem is that most practitioners know their area of specialization well, but know little of the other treatments.

What I did was study, study, study, then ask a lot of questions and listen well.  I then asked my urologist, who was a surgeon, why he recommended surgery.  I visited radiologists and asked them why they thought radiation was the way to go.  Same thing for a cryo experts.  My quest took me to the suburbs of Atlanta, GA; to Hackensack, NJ; to Houston, TX; and to Rochester Hills, MI.  Figuring that I was pretty well informed I cancelled scheduled trips to Cleveland, OH and Tulsa, OK.

IMHO it is you the patient who should decide how you want to treat your cancer.  It is complicated and there are a lot of variables to take into account.

GEORGE


----------



## AwayWeGo

*Did You Select Door No. 1 ?*




bogey21 said:


> I then asked my urologist, who was a surgeon, why he recommended surgery.  I visited radiologists and asked them why they thought radiation was the way to go.  Same thing for a cryo experts.


Which treatment did you go with ? 

Cut ? 

Zap ? 

Freeze ? 

I have an old friend out in California who recommends I think positive thoughts, pray, & visualize a _Bright Green Line_.  

I believe I'll need a 2nd opinion on that. 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## pwrshift

You guys motivated me to have a PSA test. Results came in today at 0.015 whatever that means. The doc said it was great. Whew.

Now I have to get my mindset on a colonoscopy!

Good thread.  Best of luck to you all.  

Brian


----------



## AwayWeGo

*Cutta-Cutta-Cutta.*

Met with the doctor today -- went over treatment options & recommendations, etc., in detail.  

Afterward, I find myself leaning strongly toward the surgical option. 

Before I commit, maybe I ought to fly over to some world-class European experimental medical research center & see if I can get any pioneering surgeon to fix me up with the world's 1st _Prosatate Transplant_. 

Wouldn't that be something ? 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## Jaybee

This medical journey can be "fraught with terror", as an old friend was fond of saying about life.  
Philip had the not-so-fun bladder scan on Weds.  I was called in from the waiting room, and then Philip & the dr. came in. This is the dr. who did the biopsy, and was going to do the Cryo surgery.  He discussed how it would go, what we could expect, and was looking at scheduling, when P. asked him if his prostate would shrink back down.  The dr. looked back at something in the chart, put his hand to his forehead, and said, "Your prostate is HUGE!"  This apparently was a big surprise to him.
So we go to plan B, the seed implant, but we'll go to Palm Desert, to the Eisenhower Medical Center, assuming we can get an appt.  I think it's a blessing in disguise, since that other dr. doesn't seem to have his ducks in a row, so to speak.  Jean, thinking we may have dodged a bullet.


----------



## Miss Marty

*Prostate Cancer Symposium*

National Prostate Cancer Awareness Month focuses on raising awareness about a disease that is both common and highly treatable, and during this month Eisenhower Medical Center recognizes the importance of providing the public with vital information regarding prevention, diagnosis and treatment of prostate cancer. 

On Tuesday, September 16, 

The Arnold Palmer Prostate Center at Eisenhower Lucy Curci Cancer Center will sponsor a _*free*_ Prostate Cancer Symposium. The symposium is open to the public and will be held from 1 to 7:30 p.m. Dinner will be included. To make reservations, call 760-834-3798.   EMC .org


----------



## Jaybee

Thanks so much for that information, Marty!  Jean


----------



## AwayWeGo

*Operation Scheduled.*

Surgery is set for October 15. 

I'm to show up at the hospital at Oh-Dark-Thirty, ready to go. 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## bogey21

AwayWeGo said:


> Which treatment did you go with ?



I went with a double dose of radiation.  First IMRT, followed up with HDR radiation.  Absolutley zero discomfort.  About 3 years later PSA started to increase; more biopsies; then Cryo-Surgery on only one side of the prostate.  Clean for 4 years since my Cryo.

If I had to do it all over again, I'd probably opt for surgery.  But I must say that I am very impressed with Cryo.  Less invasive, no cutting; just probes in the soft area between the scrotum and the anus.    What is really nice about Cryo is that it can be used post failed (or partially failed) radiation while surgery cannot.

George


----------



## Passepartout

Alan, you will be in our thoughts. We wish you speedy recovery and successful outcome. We will be TSing in Europe, and NO. I won't swap places with you. 

Just curious, why the month wait? I'd be anxious as all getout and need tranq's. OTOH, in my opinion, this 4 weeks is about my favorite time of year. Enjoy it as much as you can before the big event.

Jim Ricks


----------



## AwayWeGo

*Time Heals All Wounds.*




Passepartout said:


> Just curious, why the month wait?


The doctor said they can't operate till 6 weeks have gone by following biopsy -- so the affected area can heal. 

The hospital's operating room schedule was full up for October 8, so I got October 15. 

(My urologist & his surgical team operate on Wednesdays.  Other days they go out & play golf, I suppose.) 

So it goes. 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## rapmarks

our friend was diagnosed in Jan. and had to wait til Jan 29th for his prostate surgery.

I had to wait 6 weeks for a surgery date for invasive cancer and they would have made me wait another month but I refused.  They finally postponed some elective surgeries to get me in.  One of my surgeons does surgery every day.  He greeted me at the hospital at 5:30 am, my surgery lasted til 11:30, he has office hours every day til late, I don't know how he does it.


----------



## Miss Marty

*Colon Health*

Seen a show on PBS Television about The H.O.P.E. Formula
*H*igh Fiber & *P*robiotics - ordered 3 books by Brenda Watson
to learn more.

Seen a commerical for Probiotic Supplements tonight &
was wondering if this is something new or something
that I just missed. 

Anyone take Phillips Colon Health Probiotic Supplement 
by Bayer for a healthy immune system


----------



## AwayWeGo

*Dumping Saw Palmetto Supplement Capsules.*

No need taking those any longer once radical prostatectomy is done. 

Too bad -- I bought a large-size package at Price Club right before all this prostate business got started. 

Maybe I can swap what I have left for some _St. John's Wort_ or _Ginkgo Biloba_ or some such. 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## SusanMu

Away We Go - My thoughts and prayers are with you.  My DH had surgery last October.  Then found out it had spread beyond the prostate and had to have radiation.  He just had his 6 month check up and is doing awesome.  After 3 months his PSA was at .05 at 6 months it is .06.  I'm sure you will come out with flying colors.  Best wishes

Sue


----------



## AwayWeGo

*Signed Up For 2nd Opinion.*

I am going to Johns Hopkins up in Baltimore this week for a 2nd opinion. 

I have full confidence in my local urologist & I plan on going ahead with my scheduled operation October 15 in Washington DC.  

But for sure it can't hurt to get another expert opinion beforehand, if only as a Reality Check. 

If my local doctor had pooh-poohed the idea of a 2nd opinion, that would have raised concerns.  As it is, my local doctor encouraged me to get a 2nd opinion -- which only serves to reinforce my sense of confidence. 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## Miss Marty

*Biopsy slides and PSA results for consultation*

*
PLEASE BRING WITH YOU:*

  • PSA history
  • Glass pathology slides
  • X-Ray reports (not films)
  • Name and addresses for refering physicians

Don`t forget to take a copy of your (3) PSA Lab Test Results with you. 
Also, have you considered having your new Dr review your Biopsy Slides?

Give the extra Saw Palmetto Supplement Capsules to your son...


----------



## Miss Marty

*EPCA-2 testing*

HOPKINS RESEARCHERS FIND A BETTER 
BLOOD TEST FOR PROSTATE CANCER

 EPCA-2 testing curtails unnecessary biopsies and can differentiate disease that has spread outside the prostate from cancer within the prostate, 

http://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/Press_releases/2007/04_26_07.html


----------



## AwayWeGo

*All In The Family.*




Marty Giggard said:


> Give the extra Saw Palmetto Supplement Capsules to your son.


Already gave the remaining Price Club saw palmetto supplement capsules to my brother (age 54). 

Might help. 

Can't hurt. 

So it goes. 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## Jaybee

Alan, I'm sure you are very smart to go to Johns Hopkins for a second opinion.  We did that when Philip was first dx'd with A-fib.  

I'm confusedn now, about your surgery date.  Is it Oct 15, or Oct. 5?  I wish you a perfect outcome, whichever date it is.

We're still waiting for a referral for Philip to Eisenhower Med. Center.  Good health wishes to all!  






AwayWeGo said:


> I am going to Johns Hopkins up in Baltimore this week for a 2nd opinion.
> 
> I have full confidence in my local urologist & I plan on going ahead with my scheduled operation October 5 in Washington DC.
> 
> But for sure it can't hurt to get another expert opinion beforehand, if only as a Reality Check.
> 
> If my local doctor had pooh-poohed the idea of a 2nd opinion, that would have raised concerns.  As it is, my local doctor encouraged me to get a 2nd opinion -- which only serves to reinforce my sense of confidence.
> 
> -- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## AwayWeGo

*What A Doofus!  (Me, Not You.)*




Jaybee said:


> Is it Oct 15, or Oct. 5?  I wish you a perfect outcome, whichever date it is.


It's set for October 15 -- date corrected after the fact in the entry that caused the confusion. 

Thanks for your positive comment. 

All good wishes are gratefully received & greatly appreciated. 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## AwayWeGo

*Spam From Canadian Pharmacies.*

I am starting to view some of the junk E-Mail in a different light these days. 

So it goes. 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## rapmarks

when I decided to drive from Florida to Wisconsin after my cancer diagnosis, I was told to bring all kinds of things.  When I got to the Univ of Wisc cancer center, they told me they would not read outside  MRI's, etc.  I had to go thru all kinds of tests over again.  You might find the same thing at Johns Hopkins.


----------



## AwayWeGo

*Medical Records, Test Results, Tissue Slides, Etc.*




rapmarks said:


> when I decided to drive from Florida to Wisconsin after my cancer diagnosis, I was told to bring all kinds of things.  When I got to the Univ of Wisc cancer center, they told me they would not read outside  MRI's, etc.  I had to go thru all kinds of tests over again.  You might find the same thing at Johns Hopkins.


Hopkins said to hand-carry with me the reports, findings, ultrasound, PSA results, etc., from my local urologist -- also to have the biopsy slides & reports sent to them directly from the pathology lab. 

The slides, etc., have been sent & I have the other stuff from the urologist's office, so I'm hoping the Hopkins urology wizards won't throw me any curves when I get there.  We'll see, eh? 

Meanwhile, I'm having a couple of pints of my own blood banked for transfusion back into me during surgery, plus having EKG & chest X-ray & I don't know what-all pre-surgical stuff done in anticipation of going ahead with the scheduled October 15 operation. 

Shux, I just started on Medicare not 11 months ago & I'm already cashing in bigtime -- a prize all things considered that I would rather not be winning. 

So it goes. 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## rapmarks

yeah, I was hoping to put off major illness until I got on Medicare, but I didn't make it.  I estimate $100,000 on medical bills for the diagnosis and surgery I had.  (not the treatment). That was all prior to June 30. My deductible starts over on July 1 and i really tried to get as much in by June 30 as I could.  My original plan was to not visit a doctor from July 1 to Dec 1 but i didn't make it.  

I've never heard of needing a blood transfusion for prostate surgery.  Is what you are doing common?

UW did tell me to bring all my records and a cd of the MRI, then they refused to read it, they read the written report though.


----------



## AwayWeGo

*Newbie Here -- Total Rookie At Dealing With Prostate Trouble.*




rapmarks said:


> I've never heard of needing a blood transfusion for prostate surgery.  Is what you are doing common?


I honestly have no idea.  The doctor who'll be doing the operation recommended banking a couple of pints -- just in case. 

It's got to be safer getting my own blood pumped back in (if needed) than going with whatever they find on the top shelf in the blood bank refrigerator.  (Do you suppose they warm it up before they drain it back in?) 

The odd thing is that back in the olden days I was a regular Red Cross blood donor -- made it into the Fifteen Gallon Club or Sixteen Gallons or some such before I got thrown out.   

They blackballed me from making any more blood donations because of a false positive that turned up when they tested my blood for anything potentially dangerous. 

Kind of hurt my feelings to get 86d from an essentially humanitarian activity that way. 

I looked on it as a means of paying dues for membership in the Human Race.

So it goes. 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## AwayWeGo

*2nd Medical Opinion = Same As The 1st.*

The top doc at Johns Hopkins urology (where I went today specifically to get a 2nd medical opinion about my prostate cancer) basically recommended going ahead with the surgery I've got scheduled. 

On the drive home from Baltimore, 2 vital questions came to mind that I wish I had asked the Hopkins expert before I left, to wit*:* 

1.  Does he know my local doctor who'll be doing my operation, & if so what does he think of my local doctor ? 

2.  What about getting a _Prostate Transplant_ -- preferably from a very studly young adult organ donor who had the misfortune of being cut down in the prime of good health & virility by some unfortunate & tragic accidental trauma to some completely different part of the body ? 

Wouldn't that be something ?

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## rapmarks

wouldn't that be nice.

I hope you won't need those pints of blood.


----------



## Miss Marty

*PSA*

Wonder what makes PSA Test Results
vary so much from lab test to lab test
Example: Low - High -Then Back Down


----------



## wackymother

AwayWeGo said:


> 2.  What about getting a _Prostate Transplant_ -- preferably from a very studly young adult organ donor who had the misfortune of being cut down in the prime of good health & virility by some unfortunate & tragic accidental trauma to some completely different part of the body ?



Okay, I hadn't been reading this thread (because I have absolutely nothing useful to contribute)...but THIS is a great idea!!! 

Do you know the joke? 

Q: "What do they call guys who ride motorcycles without a helmet?"




A: "Organ donors!"



Now it could be

Q: "What do they call studly, virile young guys who ride motorcycles without a helmet?"




A: "Prostate donors!"


----------



## isisdave

Marty Giggard said:


> Wonder what makes PSA Test Results
> vary so much from lab test to lab test
> Example: Low - High -Then Back Down



Here is an interesting discussion of PSA variability, and accuracy of measurement, which apparently is not so great. Looks like a given reading in the range 5-10 might be only within 25% of the true one.  

The author suggests that PSA may vary with time of day and 28-day cycle (!), and suggests that variation might be minimized by having samples taken at the same point in the 28-day cycle.  Anyone know what the heck this is about? I've never heard about a 28-day PSA cycle ... nor how you'd know where you were in one.


----------



## AwayWeGo

*Think Only Platonic Thoughts.*




Marty Giggard said:


> Wonder what makes PSA Test Results
> vary so much from lab test to lab test
> Example: Low - High -Then Back Down


My tissue-based PSA number (i.e., from the biopsy) was lower than my most recent blood-test PSA number.  What correlation there normally is, if any, between tissue PSA & blood PSA is beyond my extremely limited understanding. 

One factor they didn't mention ahead of time is that a man's PSA blood test numbers can go if up the guy has been, uh . . . er, ah, um, you know -- getting _frisky_ the day or 2 before having a PSA test.  To avoid raising the test numbers in a potentially misleading way, they need to tell the guy to think nothing but boring thoughts for a couple of days & not to get anything going in the romance department till after the blood sample is drawn. 

Who'd a-thunk ? 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## Jaybee

We went to Philip's appt. witht the Oncologist in Palm Desert yesterday, and we were both favorably impressed with the dr. He's very cordial, upbeat, and he listens...not exactly what we've become used to, 
He said Phil is a good candidate for the seed implant procedure, and he gave him a book to read, and showed us, on a computer, how the procedure is done, and gave us statistics on the the odds of various side effects.
Now, they just have to get authorization from our insurer, and he said he can do it, essentially an outpatient operation, next month, when we have our week at Desert Springs II. That will save us at least 150 driving miles.
He seemed surprised when he learned Phil had had a bladder scan, and he asked why that was done. Also, he knows of the doc who was going to do cryo-surgery, and was quite surprised that he was doing that.  I feel even more certain that we dodged a bullet on that deal.  Jean


----------



## isisdave

AwayWeGo said:


> One factor they didn't mention ahead of time is that a man's PSA blood test numbers can go if up the guy has been, uh . . .



See the link in my previous message.  Actually ANY activity that causes muscle flexing in the vicinity can cause PSA to rise.  They mention bicycling and weight lifting, but I'll bet horseback riding and a wide variety of exercises, either with or without machines, would do it.


----------



## AwayWeGo

*3rd Opinion.*

I went to the National Cancer Institute of NIH in Bethesda MD yesterday for a 3rd opinion.  After that, I decided to put off my surgery that was scheduled for next week & go with NIH instead.  That doesn't mean starting over with diagnosis, etc., but it does mean a new treatment plan involving detailed MRI-style imaging & eventually robotic surgery. 

The research aspect of all this focuses on the use of MRI-style imaging for prostate cancer -- not on the robotic surgery, which is already part of what they call the Standard Of Care for prostate cancer.  That is, I am a guinea pig but only with regard to the MRI imaging part of it. 

Unfortunately NIH does not offer the option of receiving a Prostate Transplant from a healthy & studly organ donor cut down in the prime of  virility by some unfortunate accident involving motorcycles.  (Neither does anybody else.)  So it goes. 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## rickandcindy23

I thought seed therapy was the most common treatment for prostate cancer?  

Good luck to you, Alan.  I will say a prayer for you every day.  My brother-in-law had seed therapy and is probably doing okay.  We haven't heard from him in a while, but he always says he is doing great.  I am doubtful.  

If he stops the pot smoking and drug using, and whatever else he is doing, perhaps the treatment will have a chance to work.  He's been a mess most of his life, and a lot of it isn't necessarily his fault, but he needs to take better care of himself.  He is a musician and doesn't seem to care whether he lives or dies.  He is so young, too, only 60.   He grew a very long beard, and his hair is long, and he just doesn't look good to me. I see his pictures on the internet on occasion, when he is touring somewhere.  Very sad. His hair is hiding something, in my opinion.  Or, he is trying to hide behind his hair.  I don't know.


----------



## AwayWeGo

*Booze, Shmooz.*




rickandcindy23 said:


> If he stops the pot smoking and drug using, and whatever else he is doing, perhaps the treatment will have a chance to work.  He's been a mess most of his life, and a lot of it isn't necessarily his fault, but he needs to take better care of himself.  He is a musician and doesn't seem to care whether he lives or dies.


Many of those messed up on booze & drugs cannot entertain the remotest possibility in their wildest imagination that there is any chance for happiness in living a life that's clean & sober.  Then what a surprise it is when the few of them who do manage to get clean & sober (& stay that way) find out that life is not only better, it's immeasurably funner & happier & jollier that way than it ever was on booze & drugs. 

All I can figure is that booze & drugs, in addition to the other damage they do, also cripple the imagination of the person still suffering. 

Meanwhile, help is available -- but in an odd & curious way it's available only to those who want it.  The key factor is willingness.  For the unwilling there is no help. 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## bogey21

rickandcindy23 said:


> I thought seed therapy was the most common treatment for prostate cancer?  (



I went through this about 10 years ago and I'm sure things have changed a lot since then.  But back then many felt that seeds should be augmented with External Beam Radiation.  Today, I suspect seeds would be augmented with IMRT which many feel is more precise than External Beam.  Although I'm sure that seeds as a stand alone treatment worked for some I was leary of it.  I actually went in a slightly different direction augmenting HDR Radiation with IMRT

George


----------



## AwayWeGo

bogey21 said:


> I went through this about 10 years ago and I'm sure things have changed a lot since then.


For sure advances in detection & diagnosis & treatment of prostate diseases have accelerated greatly in recent years -- surgery & radiation both. 

A pretty good rundown is given in Dr. Fuller's book -- & more advances have been made even since that book came out.  Who'd a-thunk ? 

Meanwhile, I have about decided that the prostate -- ounce for ounce -- causes more trouble in sickness & in health than any other human organ. 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## rickandcindy23

I hope Ronnie is following up with his treatment, especially if he needs additional radiation.  He has been on a downhill slide for a good 2 years now.  I found a music video that shows him with his long hair.  It looks positively creepy.  Ronnie has been bald in recent years, and now he is looking unhealthier than ever.  He is hiding behind that Van Winkle beard, for sure.   I think Sammy Hagar is probably still footing the bills for his treatment, but I may be wrong about that.  

I keep expecting to hear that he died on the news, and have had recent dreams about that very thing.  I think Rick needs to give him a call.


----------



## bogey21

AwayWeGo said:


> I went to the National Cancer Institute of NIH in Bethesda MD yesterday for a 3rd opinion.  After that, I decided to put off my surgery that was scheduled for next week & go with NIH instead.



Alan - You have done it the right way.  Explore the alternatives and choose which protocol and the practitioner where you feel most comfortable. 

George


----------



## AwayWeGo

*Back To Square 1.*

If I had not changed treatment plans & changed doctors & put off my surgery, I'd be lying there in the Recovery Room with my tongue hanging out right now instead of sitting here typing on the electric computer. 

As it is, I'm currently not signed up for anything. 

That's right, my National Cancer Institute schedule is a complete blank. 

But they have not forgotten about me.  If they can do my MRI on Oct. 31, then they can do my surgery on Nov. 10.  If they can't do the MRI till Nov. 7, then the earliest date for the surgery will be Nov. 17. 

There's no need for haste -- all the doctors say my recovery chances will be about the same if I wait 3 months or even 3 years.  The need for speed comes from me.  That is, I want it _over with_ so I can get past the recovery period & get on with whatever comes next.   (You know -- more timeshare vacations & all that.) 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## rapmarks

AwayWeGo said:


> If I had not changed treatment plans & changed doctors & put off my surgery, I'd be lying there in the Recovery Room with my tongue hanging out right now instead of sitting here typing on the electric computer.
> 
> As it is, I'm currently not signed up for anything.
> 
> That's right, my National Cancer Institute schedule is a complete blank.
> 
> But they have not forgotten about me. If they can do my MRI on Oct. 31, then they can do my surgery on Nov. 10. If they can't do the MRI till Nov. 7, then the earliest date for the surgery will be Nov. 17.
> 
> There's no need for haste -- all the doctors say my recovery chances will be about the same if I wait 3 months or even 3 years. The need for speed comes from me. That is, I want it _over with_ so I can get past the recovery period & get on with whatever comes next. (You know -- more timeshare vacations & all that.)
> 
> 
> -- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


 
I know just what you are talking about, the need for speed.  they make you wait and wait and it is the worst part of the whole ordeal.

Does anyone else find it ironic that the guy that started this thread never responded again.  I know he is around because he was asking about Sun city on another thread about the same time this thread got resurrected.


----------



## AwayWeGo

*National Cancer Institute Put Me On The Schedule.  (That Was Quick.)*

MRI October 24th -- earlier than I was expecting. 

Surgery November 13th -- could be a week or so earlier if somebody else cancels. 

Security over at NIH is like Fort Knox.  The Chief Of Staff & I were given special NIH photo-ID cards, which should cut a little of the security red tape involved in getting into the place. 

In any case, I should be out of the hospital & home in Depends well before Thanksgiving. 

And by January 2009, I should be Good To Go for back-to-back Florida timeshare weeks. 

Here's hoping. 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## Jaybee

Hi, Alan... I'm glad to hear that your treatment plans are falling into place.  It sounds as if you've made wise choices. 
I wish you a splendid outcome, and many more timeshare vacations, and that you will continue writing such entertaining and insightful notes for many years to come.
Jean


----------



## Charlie D.

Your MRI is on my birthday.  I didn't know someone was going to celebrate it in that manner!!  We appreciate you keeping us informed on the process.

Charlie D.


----------



## AwayWeGo

*T. U. R. P.*

An old friend I used to carpool with back when we both had to work for a living found himself in bad prostate trouble about the same time I found out I have prostate cancer.  I have zero symptoms, however, & my friend was in such dire straits that he had to go to the emergency room with severe urinary blockage. 

His urologist signed him up for Trans-Urethral Resection of the Prostate -- TURP -- which was done under spinal-block anesthesia last Wednesday (same day as my original surgery date that I canceled). 

Just 3 days later -- Saturday -- my friend was up & around & out & about & feeling OK & looking good.  He even showed up for the big Fairfax Band _Westward Ho!_ concert that I got to paticipate in because I had put off my own prostate surgery. 

Hats off to the urologists & urologic oncologists out there.  Lots of us old guys would be in a world of hurt without those skilled & talented medical professionals working to keep our worn-out plumbing functioning a few years longer. 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## M. Henley

*Best of Luck ! !*

Here's hoping for the best to you ! !


----------



## Jaybee

*Our Saga Continues.....*

We finally got a call Tues. morning saying the Oncologist had authorization to to a Volume Study on Philip. That's the procedure where a tiny camera is fed up his hoo-hah to show the size of the prostate, and help decide where to place the seed implants. The appt. was for 830 yesterday morning.
  Since he couldn't have anything solid until after the procedure, he kvetched a lot about the whole process. (sigh)
   We were up very early for the prep and the 1 1/2 hr. drive to the desert.  He was called in at 8:15, and it seemed like I'd just gotten my coffee when they called me back. at 8:45.
   The reason it went so quickly was because it seems that Philip's prostate is the largest the Dr. has ever seen, and there's no way the seeding would work. They don't do seeding on any that's more than 60 grams, and Phil's is 160!  (See what can happen when you don't get regular checkups?)  I told him it didn't give him bragging rights, but a guy's gotta have something to make him feel special.

    So, it seems we're off to Plan C.  He'll start taking Adovert, and periodic injections of another med for 6 mos. to shrink the prostate, and then hope our HMO will authorize TomoTherapy, a new form of IMRT. (TomoTherapy.com)

As an aside, and I think any women who might read this would find it more humorous, Philip was seriously telling me how uncomfortable it was to have to lie on that table, on his back, with his feet in those stirrups.  I just looked at him, and said, "Really?"

And so, the beat goes on.  I hope all this might be of some interest, or help to someone.  I, for one, can't wait for the end of this story.  I wish you all well....  Jean


----------



## rickandcindy23

I wish you all well too!  I hope every one of you that is dealing with this terrible diagnosis gets through it.  

Makes me wonder how Dan Fogelberg died of this cancer.  Did he not get treatment?  Did he dismiss the diagnosis and choose to just live as long as he could without it?  I don't know many people for whom this is terminal.  Could be for Ronnie.


----------



## AwayWeGo

*1st Things 1st.*




rickandcindy23 said:


> Did he not get treatment?  Did he dismiss the diagnosis and choose to just live as long as he could without it?


Don't know about Dan Fogelberg specifically, but some guys are unwilling or reluctant to have prostate surgery or radiation for fear of impotence or incontinence or both. 

They figure what good is living if they can't, uh *. . .* er, ah, um, you know -- get _frisky_ any more. 

Hey, tell me about it!  That is, I understand those concerns completely. 

But what those guys forget is _You Can't Make Love If You're Dead_. 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## AwayWeGo

*Put Me Back In The M. R. I. Tube, Please.  I Want To Hear The Rest Of That Song.*

After chext x-ray & bloodwork & EKG & a long heart-to-heart talk with the anesthesiologist, I got my Big Casino advanced high-tech, high-intensity, non-standard, semi-experimental MRI session that goes with my guinea pig status at the National Cancer Institute.  That was on Friday. 

I was in the MRI tube about 45 minutes with various chemicals fed into my intravenous line while my pelvic area was draped with a special magnetic coil & another magnetic coil was placed right up next to the prostate as close it is humanly possible to place it (if you know what I mean). 

They gave me ear plugs and a set of stereo headphones so I could hear the doctors tell me what was going on & hear them ask if I was OK.  (I was.)  There was also music, but after the opening strains of a Mozart serenade I couldn't hear the tunes very well at all over all the buzzing & humming & thrumming & pulsing & vibrating & beating & pounding that the MRI machine was generating.  I had a hand-held Panic Button, but odd as the experience was nothing about it induced any actual panic, & not all that much discomfort, either.  I think I dozed off during one 18-minute scan.  

Prostate MRIs are already done at some hospitals, I hear, but this new MRI at the National Cancer Institute has a much stronger magnetic field, uses more intravenous dyes & contrast agents, etc., & results in more detailed & more precise imagery of the organ & the tumors (supposedly).  The Cancer Institute is interested in improving & advancing the use of MRI imagery in the diagnosis & treatment of prostate cancer, & that's the "experimental" aspect of my participation with the Urologic Oncology section at the National Cancer Institute. 

I am signed up now for robotically assisted laparoscopic surgery (prostate removal) on November 13th -- with a possibility that it could move up to November 3 if somebody cancels who's ahead of me on the schedule. 

All my making light of the situation is simply false bravado.  The truth is, I'm plenty scared & just putting on a brave face. 

So it goes. 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## pcgirl54

I am so glad this is being discussed. I hope some of our members have gone for tests because of it or at least shared it with others.

Also get a colonoscopy- DH has had issues and has them every other year. I had one last yaer. The test is nothing but that ginger prep drink is the pits. I ran into an old friend I not seen in years who rold me she had colon cancer last year at 52. She was having pain and some bleeding and went to the doc. She told me how much she went through.The doc told her she had 6 months to live without surgery.

Rapmarks,Bill and Alan we are all here to support you. Glad you can take care of this right away. Alan I went in an MRI machine 3 yrs back and I had a minor panic attack. Never thought I was claustrophobic but my heart was racing and I had a hard time breathing. I never hit the get me out of this thing button but I sure wanted to. I tried slow breathes to control the anxiety.

Update on my 90 yr old Dad from a earlier post. The new PSA is 300 off meds from 83 a month prior which jumped from 33 on meds. Taking him off Casodex did not work as expected. On Casodex his PSA dropped to #2 for years until now. He was diagnosed with cancer 4 1/2 yrs ago. He had kidney issues 4-5 yrs prior to that. One would never know for the last 4 years that he has had cancer. It has had no effect on him until now so we have all been very fortunate. He has no other type of illness normal for someone his age. It has been amazing. He still has Lupron shots.

So now he is on Nilandron(sp) to see if that will lower the PSA since it is now accelerating so fast. There is also a drug you can take called Zometra to strenghten your bones. You must have good dental health to take it as a rare side effect is loss of jaw bone. He has just had most of his teeth out which were not in good order and is healing so he can take this drug. The cancer has spread for the first time outside the prostate to his shoulder and ribs. He is complaining about being extremely tired this week and won't leave the house. He did well with the dental surgery. No swelling ,bruising or meds needed.

Now we are seeing an oncologist as well as the urologist who has treated him for the last 8 yrs. They are wonderful. Do you know that they would give someone 90 chemo. I was amazed. There is another drug to try if the Nilandron  does not lower his PSA but you have to take steriods with it and I think as a last resort there is chemo. We are now at the trial period for what could work so it is a stressful time.

I am so lucky to still have my Dad at 90 but I am feeling very stressed with the way he was yesterday.


----------



## rapmarks

just want you to know I do not have prostrate cancer.  I do have breast cancer.


----------



## rickandcindy23

rapmarks said:


> just want you to know I do not have prostrate cancer.  I do have breast cancer.



Oh, so sorry to hear it.   What will you choose for treatment, and what is the doctor recommending?


----------



## rickandcindy23

AwayWeGo said:


> Don't know about Dan Fogelberg specifically, but some guys are unwilling or reluctant to have prostate surgery or radiation for fear of impotence or incontinence or both.
> 
> They figure what good is living if they can't, uh *. . .* er, ah, um, you know -- get _frisky_ any more.
> 
> Hey, tell me about it!  That is, I understand those concerns completely.
> 
> But what those guys forget is _You Can't Make Love If You're Dead_.
> 
> -- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​



My father-in-law had both problems, as a result of prostate surgery.  Of course, we didn't find that out until after he died a very strange and sudden death in his home office.  Rick's stepmom, who is very open about such things, told us he hadn't been happy most of his last remaining years since the surgery.  I think Ronnie is worried about all of that, but he chose the treatment and says he is doing okay.  We will see.  

I am worried that Rick is next, but Rick gets a physical every year for the fire department.  I am also worried that the middle brother probably never gets anything checked, and he has been smoking since the age of 14. He just gets skinnier every time we see him.  I think he has something wrong already, but we don't dare say anything to him.


----------



## AwayWeGo

*Ooooooh -- Sorry To Hear That.*




rapmarks said:


> I do have breast cancer.


Bad news.  I'm so sorry you have that to deal with. 

I'm sorry anybody's got to deal with any cancer, regardless of the tissues & organs involved.  

I'm gladdened & encouraged about all the marvelous strides that have been made in early detection & effective treatments. 

That helps, of course -- lots -- but it does not take away all of the dread & anxiety of having to deal with it once it's detected. 

Wishing you all the best for complete recovery. 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## AwayWeGo

*Live! From 3NW Medical & Surgical Oncology.*

This NIH facility is the most deluxe of any hospital I've been in -- cable TV, hi-speed Internet, room service (i.e., phone down to food service to order off the menu & somebody brings it right up), & I don't know what-all.

The room is on the chilly side.  I'm OK but The Chief Of Staff was shivering there for a while.  

Today is devoted to what they call "prep" -- i.e., chugalugging magnesium citrate & taking the consequences.  

Surgery bright & early tomorrow.  Then after that, we'll see. 

My hospital roommate (from Boston) had abdominal surgery last week -- his 6th cancer operation in 6 years, he said.  I'm pretty sure mine is the tamest case anywhere on the ward, & they wouldn't have let me in to the National Cancer Institute at all if they hadn't been so interested in perfecting & advancing the use of high-tech MRI imagery in connection with prostate cancer. 

I should be out of here by next weekend. 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## taffy19

AwayWeGo said:


> This NIH facility is the most deluxe of any hospital I've been in -- cable TV, hi-speed Internet, room service (i.e., phone down to food service to order off the menu & somebody brings it right up), & I don't know what-all.
> 
> The room is on the chilly side. I'm OK but The Chief Of Staff was shivering there for a while.
> 
> Today is devoted to what they call "prep" -- i.e., chugalugging magnesium citrate & taking the consequences.
> 
> Surgery bright & early tomorrow. Then after that, we'll see.
> 
> My hospital roommate (from Boston) had abdominal surgery last week -- his 6th cancer operation in 6 years, he said. I'm pretty sure *mine is the tamest case anywhere on the ward*, & they wouldn't have let me in to the National Cancer Institute at all if they hadn't been so interested in perfecting & advancing the use of high-tech MRI imagery in connection with prostate cancer.
> 
> I should be out of here by next weekend.
> 
> 
> -- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


I am glad yours may be the tamest case of all. Good luck Alan and I hope everything goes well for you.  You sure have the right attitude and writing so frank about it may help another person to get a test sooner. No man seems to like to go to the doctor unless they are in pain. I will think of you tomorrow.


----------



## Passepartout

AwayWeGo said:


> Surgery Bright & early tomorrow.  Then after that, we'll see.
> 
> I should be out of here by next weekend.
> 
> -- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​



Good Luck Alan. You will be in all our thoughts. 

Jim Ricks


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## MULTIZ321

My prayers and thoughts are with you Alan.

Good Luck.

Richard


----------



## Kay H

Good luck tomorow, Alan.  Will say a prayer for you in the AM.


----------



## happymum

Wishing you good luck and a speedy recovery.


----------



## pcgirl54

Good luck Alan!


----------



## AwayWeGo

*Surgery Successful -- Now For The Recovery Process.*

Thanks to all who wished me well.  My TUG-BBS friends are great.

I am filled with gratitude & respect for the wonderful doctors & nurses here.  _World Class_ all the way. 

And my wonderful wife has been super, looking out for me & taking care of me in all kinds of large & small ways. 

The procedure & aftermath turned out to be trickier than the doctors were expecting -- not involving tumors, etc., but with mundane complications like internal adhesions that made their work (& the robot's) harder & more time consuming. 

I was feeling awful last night but OK this morning & highly encouraged at my post-op progress.  

Just 12+ hours after major abdominal surgery & I'm sitting here typing on the electric computer.  

Amazing. 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## MULTIZ321

Alan,

Here's a glass of Florida Orange Juice to a continued speedy recovery!!!


Richard


----------



## M. Henley

*Glad it's Over*

I am glad for you that it is finally over and you are feeling pretty good, apparently, all things considered.
:whoopie:


----------



## Kay H

Isn't it amazing what a human body can endure?  Glad you are feeling well, relatively speaking.  Each day should be better.


----------



## JudyH

Don't even think about getting frisky now. :whoopie:


----------



## swift

Glad your back Alan!! Hope you will be feeling well soon. Now don't let that Devil trick you in to doing anything you shouldn't be doing too soon.   Take it easy and relax awhile.


----------



## Jaybee

*Hi, Alan... We just got back from a 3 day trip to Laughlin, NV, and I missed your surgery. I guess the important thing is that you didn't.    I'm so glad to hear that things went well, and Phil & I both wish you a speedy recovery, and all good things.  I'm glad to see your kudos for the Chief of Staff, too.  Please don't expect all that room service nonsense after you get back home, though. LOL!  Cheers! Jean*


----------



## pcgirl54

Alan,if you are reading Tug posts you are indeed  feeling better.


----------



## AwayWeGo

*Impatient Patient.*




pcgirl54 said:


> Alan,if you are reading Tug posts you are indeed  feeling better.


Feeling semi-crabby.

I'm hurting a bit, but they give me pills for that.  I just took 1 & am eager for it to kick in.   

Breakfast is on the way -- soft foods, a step up from clear liquids. 

Still hooked up to a surgical drain & a Foley catheter -- very humiliating walking the halls with my collection bag on a rolling I-V pole, not to mention my _This_ & _That_ hanging in the breeze. 

Going in for surgery seemed like a good idea at the time.

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## Gramma5

Alan,
I'm so happy to hear the surgery is over and now you can concentrate on recuperating! Be sure to take those pain pills BEFORE the pain gets too bad. Now that you are up and about, you may need them abit more often, so you can keep mobile and comfortable. We will be praying for a speedy recovery. Our friend had his robotic surgery in May and he thought the catheter was nearly the worst part! All his functions returned to normal after several weeks.... 
God bless you as you recover.


----------



## AwayWeGo

*No More Pain Pills.  (Well, Maybe Some Tylenol.)*




Gramma5 said:


> Alan,
> I'm so happy to hear the surgery is over and now you can concentrate on recuperating! Be sure to take those pain pills BEFORE the pain gets too bad. Now that you are up and about, you may need them abit more often, so you can keep mobile and comfortable. We will be praying for a speedy recovery. Our friend had his robotic surgery in May and he thought the catheter was nearly the worst part! All his functions returned to normal after several weeks....
> God bless you as you recover.


Thanks for your kind words -- specially now as I enter the _Poor Me_ phase of dealing with various minor inconveniences & indignities. 

The pain that's left seems to be less straight-ahead postoperative hurt & more just real bad gas pains & cramps as my poor bloated & gas-filled belly struggles to get back to something like normal after being subjected to what was after all _Major Surgery_. 

I slept from 11PM till 3AM, then got up & will be staying up so I can get to the bathroom quick as often as necessary. 

Pain pills did not help with cramping & bloating -- might have added to the problem somewhat because the narcotic pills can be constipating.  So now it's just Tylenol, which also helps bring down my temperature when it hits 101 F as it's been doing. 

Fortunately instead of staring at the 4 walls I can type on the electric computer.  

Hoping I can go home today.  

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## Jestjoan

I hope you get to go home today, too. There's no place like home......

I hope you have a very speedy recovery, Alan.

Joan


----------



## bogey21

I didn't realize the post-op from surgery was as bad as you describe it.  About 5 years ago when I had a minor recurrence of my cancer about 5 years after radiation treatment I opted for Cryo-Surgery  which essentially destroys the prostate by freezing it.  No cutting.  They just punched a couple of holes between my scrotum and anus and went in there.  I also had the Foley catheter, but  absolutely no pain, no inconvenience other than the catheter, and no screwing up any other stuff in the area.  Maybe Cryo deserves more consideration as a primary treatment.

George


----------



## rickandcindy23

Alan, I hope you are home today, sitting on your couch.  Home is so nice after major surgery.  When I had my hysterectomy, they stapled my very long incision.  They had me ready to go home two days later, and then I lost my breakfast that morning, and they kept me another two days!  I was up and walking the halls for hours every day, so I figured I should be home and not there.  But the throwing up, well they were just scared of it.  They put me on a bland diet, which fixed it, but I would rather have gone home and eaten that same canned fruit, chicken soup and crackers.  

Moral to this story--if you throw up, don't tell them.  :rofl: 

Of course, it turned out that I was allergic to percocet (sp?), so they had to give me vicodin.  I guess that was a good thing, telling them I had thrown up.  I also had a rash all over from that stuff.  I shoulda known.  Who'd a thunk?


----------



## AwayWeGo

*Sprung.*

I'm home on pass from the National Cancer Institute -- go back in Tuesday  night so they can stick me with needles for bloodwork 5AM Wednesday in advance of doing a cystogram -- taking pictures of the bladder from the inside (a process I don't like thinking about -- I hear sedation is involved, thankfully). 

My operation took 6 hours instead of the scheduled 3 because organs & tissues just getting at the focal site of the operation were all stuck together with adhesions -- don't know why, they just were.  Plus, the surgeon said there was inflammation they weren't counting on finding.  The doctors & their computer-directed robot handled everything OK, but it took twice as long as they had counted on. 

They also had to revise my bladder more than they expected they'd need to, but now they're spraining their arms patting themselves on the back over the great job they did -- no (internal) leakage, no problems other than needing to leave the Foley catheter in a day or so longer. 

The way they know there's no internal leakage is that they kept on lab-testing the stuff collected via a surgical drainage tube they left in my abdomen specially for the purpose.  If the tests had shown traces of urine, that would have meant leaks.  Fortunately, no leaks.  And now the drainage tube is out.   All is well. 

No nausea.  (That's something.)   Not much pain, although plenty of tenderness & I'm definitely moving slow, letting The Chief Of Staff pamper me as much as she's willing.  I'm taking Tylenol -- the regular drug store kind. 

It is a humbling experience to be right there on the NIH Medical & Surgical Oncology ward where all the patients except me are dealing with various Big Casino forms of cancer, & there I am with just my wimpy, no-symptom early-stage case of a very common cancer with straightforward treatment.  My 1st hospital roommate at the National Cancer Center was a guy 26 who'd had 6 cancer operations in 6 years -- melanoma that had spread to his intestines. 

The 2nd guy, about 44, also had spreading melanoma.  He'd been in before & was in this time for strictly experimental immuno-therapy done nowhere else but the National Cancer Institute -- that after a bunch of prior operations & chemotherapy treatments.  I overheard him telling somebody he needs to think up more explanations for his various large scars -- he told people the 1 on his leg was from a shark bite.  Both guys were dealing with pain issues from cancer. 

So I am counting my blessings.  The only thing that even got me into NIH was the strong interest the Urologic Oncology people there have in advancing the use of MRI imagery in the diagnosis & treatment of prostate cancer.  Otherwise, I would have never been able to get into the National Cancer Institute. 

While I was in the Clinical Center, I spent some time on the bedside computer provided for patients.  I noticed that they have a new program for people suffering from undiagnosed diseases -- rare mystery ailments that the local doctors can't figure out.  Not all applicants are accepted, but for those who are it's a unique & potentially valuable resource.  Click here for information about that.  I told my friend in California about it, so maybe he'll follow up with whatever he's got that his local doctors & the Mayo Clinic doctors can't exactly figure out -- haven't been able to after a couple of years of trying, anyway. 

Every day is an answered prayer.  I am filled to overflowing with gratitude & respect for all the doctors & nurses who have helped me. 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## rapmarks

*Not to highjack your thread*

I am so mad right now, and maybe i am silly to be angry.
I have been treated for multifocal invasive cancer and will be treated for several years.
a "friend" sent me a forward yesterday , one that when checked on Scopes was false. she knows of my cancer but sent me a warning that cooking in a microwave causes cancer, using saran wrap causes cancer, drinking out of plastic waterbottles causes cancer, etc. It was reportedly from Johns Hopkins and was false. i informed her that is was hurtful to me to tell me i caused my cancer and it was also untrue. And if it were true, it is too late for me and only lay a guilt trip on me.. She replied by giving me crap after crap about not using a microwave, distill my own water and put in aluminum container, on and on. so now not only did I cause my own cancer, but I have probably given it to my whole family by using a microwave, etc. She says she is only looking out for me. 
Am i wrong to be upset by this.


----------



## rickandcindy23

rapmarks said:


> I am so mad right now, and maybe i am silly to be angry.
> I have been treated for multifocal invasive cancer and will be treated for several years.
> a "friend" sent me a forward yesterday , one that when checked on Scopes was false. she knows of my cancer but sent me a warning that cooking in a microwave causes cancer, using saran wrap causes cancer, drinking out of plastic waterbottles causes cancer, etc. It was reportedly from Johns Hopkins and was false. i informed her that is was hurtful to me to tell me i caused my cancer and it was also untrue. And if it were true, it is too late for me and only lay a guilt trip on me.. She replied by giving me crap after crap about not using a microwave, distill my own water and put in aluminum container, on and on. so now not only did I cause my own cancer, but I have probably given it to my whole family by using a microwave, etc. She says she is only looking out for me.
> Am i wrong to be upset by this.




Some people don't know what to say.  They are so tongue-tied when someone they know and care about is suffering, so they feel they must find a cause.  For some of those people, seeing a friend facing such a hurdle is just too hard to understand.  I know this sounds like I am making excuses for your friend, but she may be needing to find a cause, partly to feel that she is keeping her family safe from this same fate.  Who do you blame, if you cannot blame saran wrap and microwaves?  God is good, right?  So why would God allow these bad things to happen?  It has to be the saran wrap.


----------



## easyrider

rapmarks said:


> I am so mad right now, and maybe i am silly to be angry.
> I have been treated for multifocal invasive cancer and will be treated for several years.
> a "friend" sent me a forward yesterday , one that when checked on Scopes was false. she knows of my cancer but sent me a warning that cooking in a microwave causes cancer, using saran wrap causes cancer, drinking out of plastic waterbottles causes cancer, etc. It was reportedly from Johns Hopkins and was false. i informed her that is was hurtful to me to tell me i caused my cancer and it was also untrue. And if it were true, it is too late for me and only lay a guilt trip on me.. She replied by giving me crap after crap about not using a microwave, distill my own water and put in aluminum container, on and on. so now not only did I cause my own cancer, but I have probably given it to my whole family by using a microwave, etc. She says she is only looking out for me.
> Am i wrong to be upset by this.



Friends like this need to be told to shut up as soon as they start spouting off and maybe directions on where to go.


----------



## AwayWeGo

*Even When Anger Is Appropriate, It Might Hurt You More Than it Hurts Your "Friend."*




rapmarks said:


> Am i wrong to be upset by this.


Of course not.  But the way it works, too often it leaves you boiling mad & disturbed while it affects your nutso friend the way rain showers affect ducks.  

Of course it's not your fault you've got cancer.  Cancer happens.  We all do what we can do to reduce our exposure to the risks, but we don't need to get wrapped around the axle over all the trendy cancer scares. 

Shux, some of the vitamin supplements people were advised to take to ward off cancer are now said to be of not much help, if any, in that regard.  The field of knowledge is changing rapidly.  It's hard to separate the solid information from the mumbo-jumbo. 

Cancer is so scary that it's understandable how some folks can go off the deep end about microwaves & saran wrap, etc.  Reaching out to friends is 1 thing, but laying guilt trips on them is something else again. 

I believe in helping people when I can & in appropriate situations (& when it's not too much trouble).  I also believe in MYOB, which points me in a different direction.  Once I've said something to somebody, it's impossible to un-say it, so I've got to guard against spouting off inappropriately or prematurely or when I don't know whereof I speak.  It could be that your "friend" doesn't know what she doesn't know. 

I am now re-examining that MYOB stuff.  My friend who got me into the National Cancer Institute knew that I was all set for conventional surgery after receiving diagnosis & treatment recommendations locally plus a confirming second opinion from the urology wizards at Johns Hopkins.  He would have been well within MYOB bounds to just let matters stand where they were.  But out of his friendship for me over 30 years or so, & out of his  concern that I was really missing out on an extremely promising option at the National Cancer Institute, he did not butt out.  He actually got me my initial appointment with the Cancer Institute doctor who treated my friend last year when my friend had the same thing I have.  The Chief Of Staff & I were away at a timeshare for a pre-surgery vacation at the time (Woodstone At Massanutten -- had a great time).  My friend left a phone message telling me what he had done & urging me to follow up. 

With 1 week to go before conventional surgery -- on the same day that I had my pre-surgery physical & EKG & blood tests & chest X-ray, after I had already banked a unit of my own blood for transfusion during conventional surgery -- I kept the appointment with my friend's doctor & the rest is history.  I canceled my scheduled conventional surgery & signed on with the National Cancer Institute -- as laid out previously right here on TUG-BBS. 

I am pretty sure that if I had continued on with my scheduled conventional surgery, my friend would not have called up to give me a ration of baloney over deciding to go that way instead of going robotic.  He might have thought I was making a mistake, but he's not the kind of friend who would make me feel bad about it. 

As it turns out, however, I am extremely grateful to my friend for extending himself to the lengths he took to get me into NIH.  I am convinced that, for me, this was absolutely the best choice.  It's not that I was lined up for bad treatment before & in the nick of time I got lined up with good treatment.  It's that I was already lined up for superior treatment & at the last minute I got to go with something even better.  (It's interesting to speculate, however, how things would have turned out during conventional surgery when the surgeons encountered all that adhesion, etc., that extended & complicated my robotic surgery.) 

I suspect your "friend" is eaten up with her own fears about getting cancer & thus behaves toward you in the way she does as a way of acting out her own terrors.  If you can forgive her -- can let her off the hook without even letting her know -- maybe you both will feel better.  Failing that, maybe you can quit having anything to do with her without feeling it necessary to spell it all out for her.  I'd hate for your feelings about this to add to the burden of what you're already struggling with. 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## AwayWeGo

*Highjack, Shmyjack.*




> Not to highjack your thread


Shux, I highjack TUG-BBS discussion topics at every opportunity. 

By me, that's 1 of the most endearing & entertaining attributes of TUG-BBS. 

I realize, however, that highjacking discussion topics is not everybody's cup of tea, but I expect I'll keep on doing it anyway until I get in major serious trouble over it from the TUG Grand Pro. 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## AwayWeGo

*Brrrrr.  It's Getting Chilly In Here.*




bogey21 said:


> Maybe Cryo deserves more consideration as a primary treatment.


I think so.  I asked my private urologist about it.  He does conventional surgery, so I wouldn't expect him to be highly positive about cryogenic treatment. 

In cryogenic treatment, he pointed out that there is risk on the 1 hand of causing freeze injury to the urethra if care is taken to freeze all the surrounding prostate tissue, & on the other hand that if care is taken to protect the urethra from freezing there is risk of _not_ freezing all the surrounding prostate tissue. 

Likewise, there is risk of serious freeze injury to the rectum if care is taken to freeze all the adjoining prostate tissue, & likewise risk of leaving some prostate tissue unfrozen if care is taken to safeguard the rectum from freezing. 

Even so, in the hands of an experienced expert, I surely would think that cryogenic treatment could offer good results in treating prostate cancer. 

Here's hoping the technique is perfected. 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## Miss Marty

*Welcome Home Alan*



AwayWeGo said:


> I'm home on pass from the National Cancer Institute -- go back in Tuesday




*Best Wishes for a Speedy Recovery...*


----------



## Jaybee

Alan, please don't stop whatever it is that you're doing, hijacking threads, elaborating, celebrating, venting, and giving credit where it's due, you have a beautiful way of expressing yourself, and I think that the information, and sharing on Tug is greatly enhanced by your contributions. I guess it isn't necessary to add that I am a big fan of yours.
Jean


----------



## Charlie D.

Alan,

You are crossing this bridge before some of us and I have appreciated your updates.  After a gal bladder operation they said if I could urinate on my own I wouldn’t need a catheter.  Fortunately I didn’t need one.  A catheter does not look like it would be any fun.  Did they do that while you were out?  How painful was it when they removed it?  I think a lot of us are using your experience to add to our own knowledge base if this should be put in our path later on in life.  Thank you for the updates!!

Charlie D.


----------



## AwayWeGo

*Mr. Foley's Famous Catheter.*




Charlie D. said:


> Alan,
> 
> You are crossing this bridge before some of us and I have appreciated your updates.  After a gal bladder operation they said if I could urinate on my own I wouldn’t need a catheter.  Fortunately I didn’t need one.  A catheter does not look like it would be any fun.  Did they do that while you were out?  How painful was it when they removed it?  I think a lot of us are using your experience to add to our own knowledge base if this should be put in our path later on in life.  Thank you for the updates!!
> 
> Charlie D.


Dumb as it sounds -- and is -- the prospect of having a plastic tube stuck up my dingus while the urethra & bladder are healing was one of the most negative mental pictures I had going into this whole prostate surgery thing, even before I decided which treatment option to take. 

My late father had TURP ("roto-rooter") operations twice -- done by the urologist who was going to perform my conventional open surgery before I canceled -- & I can still see mental pictures of the Old Man hooked up to his bag as he was healing from those procedures.  And now I'm 1 of the old guys walking around hooked up to a bag.  So it goes. 

I went into the operation hooked up to an arm I-V & came out hooked up to that plus the Foley catheter & an abdominal surgical drain.  They pulled out the drain before they turned me loose Thursday morning -- I was dreading that, figuring it would hurt bad, but it was OK.  I'm still hooked up to the Foley catheter -- have to carry my bag around just like the Old Man. 

They fixed me up with a smaller bag that straps onto my lower leg & showed me how to change to the leg bag for daytime & reconnect the overnight bag at bedtime.  

Now I'm dreading how bad it'll be when they remove the Foley catheter.  Ditto getting the cystogram.  I'm really hoping significant sedation will be involved.  If not, well lots of guys have gone through something like this & have survived so there's no reason I can't grit my teeth & get through it too.  (I am a compliant patient, but a squeamish patient & something of a sissy about the sight of blood, etc., & I always look the other way when they're doing blood samples, giving shots, etc.). 

I was hurting for sure when I got back to my hospital room in the cancer ward -- 3 Northwest at the NIH Clinical Center.  They gave me a jolt of morphine & later some percoset, which took the edge off bigtime.  

The worst discomfort, right after getting out of recovery, came from the sensation of having a brick stuck inside my bladder -- the overwhelming sensation of needing to get up & go pee _right now !_  Of course, that was just post-operative pressure.  I couldn't exactly get up & go anywhere at the time, being wobbly in the knees & all from anesthesia hangover.  And for sure I didn't need to go pee because I was all hooked up to this dandy bag.  Fortunately, they gave me a prescription drug that relieves bladder spasms & I was OK after that.  The last dose I had of that was Thursday morning right before I checked out of 3NW.  I'm OK now, but the sensation of being hooked up is real & I will happily submit to whatever it takes to get disconnected, then on to getting restored to as much of normal function as possible.  

Regarding "normal function" & the lack thereof, apparently I'm going to be at my worst regarding dysfunction right now, then improve over 18-24 months following surgery.  In any case, I'm feeling little anxiety over that -- expecting good results & willing to see how it goes (no pun intended) living minus prostate.  My doctor said he was able to leave the critical nerves & tissues pretty much intact, so with healing & over time I'm expecting a good outcome.  We'll see. 

BTW, I have no big surgical incisions -- just 5 small abdominal holes where the probes & instruments were inserted so the robot could go to work.  One of the consent forms I signed gave permission to take video pictures of the whole procedure.  I'm hoping my operation won't end up on YouTube. 

I wisecracked to some of my friends that I'd be wearing Spiderman Depends or Batman Depends till Thanksgiving, then hopefully I will be good to go without by Christmas.  One old college friend, a former roommate in Animal House, sent me a couple of Depends decorated with some oversize Spiderman stickers.  I'm thinking of showing those to the doctors & nurses at 3MW when I go back. 

The book by E. Fuller Torrey MD that JudyH recommended is great.  Dr. Torrey had conventional open surgery done by a partner in practice of the urologist who was going to do mine before I canceled & went with the National Cancer Institute.  Dr. Torrey, I believe, is the guy who said that about the time he got used to the Foley catheter, it was time to take it out.  Here's hoping it works that way for me, too. 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## rapmarks

speaking of catheters -picture this

every patient who has had major surgery where you cannot get out of bed for awhile will have a catheter.  
Everytime there is a tornado watch or warning (the stronger one), every patient must be evacuated to the center core of the hallway.

I was  post surgery after the Lake Delton flood (Wisconsin Dells).  
Two tornado watches in one night each lasting for 2 to 2 and a half hours. 

All patients brought out of their rooms, hooked up to so many gizmos it was unbelieveable, sitting on chairs around the nurses station.  People waiting for patients about to be brought up from the recovery room.  This was the univ of Wisconsin Hospital, a very large surgery ward.

catheter bags everywhere, iv lines, oxygen tanks, drains, pain pumps.  

I laugh about it now, but it was awful.

When they brought me back to my room and hooked me up to all kinds of things, they forgot to plug in my bed.
I couldn't get the bed to go down, and i couldn't reach the nurse call button.  
I kept sliding down in the bed til I was in the bottom half with my legs hanging out.  I had had abdominal surgery and couldn't do things like sit up yet.
I never slept the whole time I was there, 5 nights, and this was no different.  
When the nurse came in for the checks a couple of hours later, she said she thought I was awfully short and she plugged in the bed



I am still ticked at my friend  - telling me Johns Hopkins has proved that Buffy St Marie's cancer was caused by drinking out of a water bottle left in a car is supposed to be helpful?  I am doomed!!!


----------



## JudyH

This thread is amazing, so supportive, informative, and full of love.

Best to everyone.


----------



## JimJ

AwayWeGo said:


> ...Now I'm dreading how bad it'll be when they remove the Foley catheter... -- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​



There is nothing to dread.  It takes about 2 seconds and you shouldn't feel a thing.


----------



## AwayWeGo

*Sprung A Leak & Other (Minor) Post-Operative Woes.*

The reason I slept so comfortably last night is that I evidently forgot while asleep that I was all hooked up to my temporary external plumbing arrangement & so I rolled over into my habitual position for slumber regardless.  In so doing, I pulled apart a plastic tube connection -- not where it connects with me, but where the 1st connection downstream of me attaches to the rest of the rig.  The resulting leakage was not disastrous, but necessitated bigtime major serious clean-up, which the Chief Of Staff took care of without 1 word of complaint.  I hope to make it up to her before long & I intend to be more careful. 

Meanwhile, I'm improving daily in comfort & in mobility around the house, though I'm still pretty much doing the _Nursing Home Shuffle_ as my main means of locomotion. 

When the Clinical Center sent me home on pass, they made sure I had plenty of pills for various purposes -- pain, fever, circulation, etc.  The medicines did not include tolterodine, even though they were giving me something like that while I was in the hospital ever since they hooked me up to the catheter.  I wasn't in major distress, but I was experiencing enough discomfort yesterday to call the Paging Operator & ask to get in touch with the Urologic Fellow On Call.  Within 10 minutes the doctor called back, & when I explained the problem he phoned in a prescription to our local pharmacy.  The Chief Of Staff picked up the pills & I was able to take 1 within an hour of calling.  

I have been discouraging friends & neighbors from coming over to visit while I'm all hooked up this way, in that I'm suppsed to get unhooked in just a few more days.  But when our grandson came over yesterday for a rousing game of Monopoly Junior, I was able to dress acceptably by strapping on my leg-mounted bag.  Today a Senior Citz. friend is coming by for coffee, & others have said they'd like to come as well.  It would be unkind & unappreciative not to bend a little on my _No Visitors_ policy. 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## bogey21

AwayWeGo said:


> Now I'm dreading how bad it'll be when they remove the Foley catheter.



There is nothing to it.  Where the rubber meets the road is the test following the catheter removal to make sure you can pee naturally.  No pain, no strain, but mentally there is the worry that they will have to put the damn thing back in.

Guys, the more I read of Allen's journey, the more I think some of you should at least look at  Cryo (destroying the prostate with negative 140 degree temperature). Compare my experience with Cryo to Allen's tale.  

My Cryo was performed at Crittenden Hospital, in Rochester, MI (just North of Detroit).  I drove from Fort Worth, TX to Rochester in two days, spending a night in St Louis.  I rented a room in a nearby Motel 6; post Cryo I spent 2 nights in the hospital (I think it would have been only one had I not been alone); after five days of Motel 6, the MacDonalds next door and the Kinkos about a mile away (for internet access) they removed my catheter; within 2 hours I was driving myself to St Louis; spent the night; next morning I drove to Hot Springs, AR for the Arkansas Derby (horse race).  Note: Doctors did not know about or approve any of this.

My only discomfort was getting in and out of the car and climbing the flight of stairs at the racetrack to make my bets.  I was too proud to ask friends to do it for me.

Undestand that I am not saying that Cryo is for everyone.  On the other hand I don't think it should be dismissed out of hand.  I just think it should be one of the options considered.  Three things are certain regarding my Cryo.  First, it has been over 5 years since my Cryo and all is well.  Second, all my organs in the area of the prostate work just fine (it did take about a year for peeing to be 100% normal).  Third, I had a much easier time of it than Allen has had with surgery.

GEORGE


----------



## JimJ

After they take the catheter out, ask to keep the leg bag.  Fill it with a few ounces of ginger ale, strap on your leg, and then go visit some former bosses or colleagues, neighbors, etc. that you don't particularly like.

While sitting down talking to them, let the bag leak.  Apologize profusely and the quickly leave.


----------



## AwayWeGo

*Sounds Like A Creative New Timeshare Tour Strategy.*




JimJ said:


> After they take the catheter out, ask to keep the leg bag.  Fill it with a few ounces of ginger ale, strap on your leg, and then go visit some former bosses or colleagues, neighbors, etc. that you don't particularly like.
> 
> While sitting down talking to them, let the bag leak.  Apologize profusely and the quickly leave.


Great idea !

Maybe I can adapt that scheme in an advantageous way in advance of going on timeshare tours for freebies. 

Wouldn't that be something ? 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## AwayWeGo

*YouTube Video Showing How The Da Vinci Surgical Robot Works.*

Click here. 

It shows how the apparatus works via origami rather than actual surgery -- although there's plenty of actual Da Vinci robotic surgery you can see on YouTube also if you care to search for it.  (I don't -- too squeamish.) 

I just assumed Da Vinci robotic surgery was just for prostate operations. 

Wrong. 

It's good also for heart valve replacement, heart bypass operations, hysterectomy, & I don't know what all.  

Seems to me it would be specially good for heart surgery.  Unlike with open heart surgery, the doctors wouldn't have to saw open the patient's rib cage if they used the Da Vinci surgical robot instead. 

Amazing stuff. 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## AwayWeGo

*Internet Resource For Prostate Cancer Information.*

Click here for Phoenix5. 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## AwayWeGo

*Officially Discharged Today From Hospital.  So Far, So Good.*

The whole cystogram & disconnection process that I was semi-dreading is over & done & wasn't even all that bad.  Shux, even if it had been awful (it wasn't) it would have been worth it just to get disconnected from the Foley catheter & get rid of that embarrassing bag.  Plus, I'm short on sleep because I never could get in a comfortable snoozing position as long as I was hooked up. 

I showed up at 3 North West at 10AM -- right on time for my scheduled 2PM cystogram.  They put me in a room on the unit & told me the schedule had been changed to 1PM.  Then they upped the schedule again & 2 orderlies showed up right at 11AM to wheel me down to the operating room -- No. 3, the 1 with all the digital surgical X-ray equipment installed. 

Cystogram amounted to pouring some X-ray opaque dye in through the Foley tube so that,  via X-ray, the doctors could see whether all the solution stayed in the bladder (good) or whether any leaked out through the places where surgical repair was done (bad).  

My doctor administered the procedure, dressed head to toe in what looked like a space suit, draped with an ankle-length lead apron & neck-wrapped with a lead scarf for good measure.  

He & another doctor & an operating room nurse positioned me flat on my back on the X-ray gizmo & they went to work.  After a few minutes the main doctor pronounced himself satisfied with the results of his handiwork.  "All healed," he said.  "You did great."  Outstanding!  That was extremely good to hear from my no-nonsense top doc. 

They removed the Foley tube & sent me back to 3NW, where a nurse practitioner renewed some take-home prescriptions & a ward nurse handed me 1 dose of an antibiotic (to ward off bladder infection after cystogram).  

I was out of there & back home by 3PM.  Orders are to take it easy another couple of weeks, then after that do whatever I want (within reason).  I'm on regular foods, no painkillers, & no more tolteradine. 

I'm basically relearning potty training, now that the internal structures affecting how it works were radically redone, & I am optimistic that I'll get the hang of it before long.  Shux, I mostly already do -- just wearing Depends (for now) to be on the safe side.  (If my friends point their fingers & laugh because of that, that's OK -- it's worth it to have the cancer gone.) 

This entire experience has reinforced my attitude of gratitude, & has given me a whole new outlook of respect & admiration for the medical profession. 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## AwayWeGo

*1st Time Out & About By Myself Since The Surgery.*

Went to a meeting with friends this morning, then picked up just a few things at Super Giant on the way home. 

No problems, no misadventures, nice being out. 

That was the 1st time I've driven the car or gone anywhere but home & to the hospital since 2 weeks ago. 

It's great having all the hard part over & done. 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## Kay H

Alan
It sounds as if you breezed thru this whole thing.  I'm sure your positive attitude had a lot to do with it.  I hope you continue to live life to the fullest.


----------



## AwayWeGo

*Thanks.*




Kay H said:


> Alan
> It sounds as if you breezed thru this whole thing.  I'm sure your positive attitude had a lot to do with it.  I hope you continue to live life to the fullest.


Thank you.  Your positive words are much appreciated. 

I wouldn't say it's been a breeze, but it was OK. 

I am coming along (although still moving slow).  And my attitude is positive -- also thankful. 

Fortunately The Chief Of Staff is administering copious TLC & I have nothing much scheduled for the next few weeks other than going to a book signing Tuesday evening. 

The author signing the books is the family doctor I _didn't_ go to when it was time to take my Medicare physical back in January that set in motion all this prostate cancer detection & treatment. 

That's right, I've been 2-timing the family doctor.  As a matter of forthrightness, I feel I have to tell him what's up -- that for my Medicare physical I went instead to an internist who takes Medicare, & then when my blood test result raised a red flag I stuck with the same internist, who referred me to a urologist, & the rest is history. 

It's a free country.  People can go to any doctor(s) they want.  I just feel funny & semi-guilty about this situation, & so I'm hoping I can use the occasion of the family doctor's book signing to show I still have some loyalty simply by showing up. 

Oddly, I don't feel the same way about bailing out on my well regarded private urologist with 1 week to go before surgery & signing on instead with the National Cancer Institute.  Then again, I did call the private hospital & the urologist's office right away to let them know I was going with the National Cancer Institute, so there is no unfinished business to be concerned about. 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## AwayWeGo

*O. K. At 6-Week Post-Op Check-Up.*

My 6-week check-up came a few days early (at my request) to resolve an inadvertent schedule conflict. 

Pathology report was clear -- no tumors anywhere except in the tissue that was removed surgically (i.e., no need for any follow-up treatment).  

PSA at 6-weeks post-op = undetectable (i.e., below 0*.*04). 

Next appointment = March 2009. 

I'm to keep going back for more PSA blood tests 4 times a year for 5 years, then 2 times a year for 5 more years. 

By then I'll be age 76 -- not that there's anything wrong with that. 

I am extremely grateful for the early detection & successful treatment. 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## The Conch Man

Great to hear your good news Alan! Below, where I quoted your post in *blue*, I've been doing since 1996 & my PSA is 1.7. My Doc doesn't care how high it gets as long as it doesn't double in any given quarter or year, which so far is good. Looks like your got a lot of time on your hands for a long life!



AwayWeGo said:


> PSA at 6-weeks post-op = undetectable (i.e., below 0*.*04).
> 
> *I'm to keep going back for more PSA blood tests 4 times a year for 5 years*
> 
> I am extremely grateful for the early detection & successful treatment.
> 
> 
> -- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## AwayWeGo

*Watching Out For P. S. A. Velocity.*




The Conch Man said:


> My Doc doesn't care how high it gets as long as it doesn't double in any given quarter or year, which so far is good.


Right you are.  What got my doctors more exercised than my high PSA number -- 3.9 in January 2008 -- was the suddenness of the increase to 11 in August 2008.  

How quickly it goes up -- _PSA velocity_, they call it -- is the red flag.  

My PSA is low now because I no longer have any prostate tissue in there generating any PSA.  

The reason the doctors want to keep on testing for it year after year is that if I start having detectable PSA, that means there _is_ some prostate tissue in there somewhere making trouble -- & they'll jolly well want to know what's up with that. 

It could be recurrent prostate cancer (bad) or metastatic prostate cancer (real bad).  Either way, it would have to be dealt with. 

But the likelihood is that my prostate cancer is over & done for good.  Even so, I won't be skipping any of those quarterly PSA blood tests.  Can't be too careful. 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## Jaybee

Alan, that is truly great news about your 6 wk checkup.  I've been wondering how you were doing.  Thanks for the update.
We're still waiting.  Philip had his first Lupron injection yesterday, and he'll have the 2nd one, and another appt. with the Oncologist in April, to see if the prostate has shrunk enough to treat. 
It looks like our HMO won't cover the Tomo Therapy in Palm Desert, and we may have to go to Temecula.  Of course, Temecula is much closer, but we don't know what the treatment would be....kind of like starting over?  Ohno!    Jean


----------



## AwayWeGo

*Wishing You All The Best.*




Jaybee said:


> We're still waiting.  Philip had his first Lupron injection yesterday, and he'll have the 2nd one, and another appt. with the Oncologist in April, to see if the prostate has shrunk enough to treat.


This is still very scary stuff & I feel like I dodged a bullet.  So I am hoping for the best for you & Phil.  

Plus, just because I dodged this particular bullet, that doesn't mean there's not some other 1 out there with my name on it waiting for me.  

So I have an attitude of gratitude every day -- for my life & my wife & my sons & my daughters-in-law & my grandson & my other grandchild-to-be & all my extended family. 

It's like there's a worldwide conspiracy out there at work to do good things for me. 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## Jaybee

Alan, I love your "Attitude of Gratitude" philosophy.  I try to live that way, too.  I like the idea that it's one of the philosophies painted on the wall of the Curves I go to.  
Positive energy always helps.  Hugs, and happy healing, and good wishes to you, The Chief of Staff, and all of you out there.  Jean


----------



## Miss Marty

*FDA Approves New Prostate Cancer Drug*

WASHINGTON (Dec. 29) 

Federal regulators on Monday said they have approved 
the first new drug to treat prostate cancer in four years.

The injectable treatment from privately held Ferring Pharmaceuticals fights the cancer by lowering levels of testosterone, which promotes the growth of tumors in the prostate.

Food and Drug Administration officials said older drugs in the same class can actually increase testosterone production before they begin lowering them. In studies on prostate cancer patients, Ferring showed that its drug, degarelix, does not raise testosterone levels.

According to the FDA, patients treated with degarelix had testosterone levels comparable to those seen after the testes are removed.


----------



## AwayWeGo

*Keeping It Simple.*




Marty Giggard said:


> According to the FDA, patients treated with degarelix had testosterone levels comparable to those seen after the testes are removed.


Shux, wouldn't it be cheaper & less trouble just to get'm cut off, compared (say) with taking daily doses of an expensive new drug whose effect is the same as surgical removal ?  

Nobody likes to think about that, but there you are.  In fact, I had the same question in mind about removal before Marty sent in the information about degarelix.  I wondered about that when I was reading the section of Dr. Torrey's book covering hormone treatment for prostate cancer. 

As for me, my cancerous prostate is _gone_ as of 11-3-2008 & so there is no need to have anything else cut off down in that general area.  

Just think -- last month I had cancer & this month I don't have cancer. 

Let me tell you, I am a happy man. 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## AwayWeGo

*Still In The Clear.*




AwayWeGo said:


> PSA at 6-weeks post-op = undetectable (i.e., below 0*.*04).
> 
> Next appointment = March 2009.


Same result at my 2nd scheduled follow-up PSA test this morning = below 0*.*04 (i.e., undetectable). 

Next follow-up test = June 2009. 

Every day is an answered prayer -- & not just regarding health matters & dodging this particular bullet. 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## pwrshift

That's great news Alan.  Congrats!

Brian


----------



## Jaybee

That's wonderful news, Alan!  Yea for you, and the medical folk.
We have to wait until late April to find out if the meds have shrunk Phil's prostate enough to treat it.  It's a long 6 month wait, but we have high hopes.  Jean


----------



## AwayWeGo

*Is There An Echo In Here ?*




AwayWeGo said:


> Same result at my 2nd scheduled follow-up PSA test this morning = below 0*.*04 (i.e., undetectable).
> 
> Next follow-up test = June 2009.
> 
> Every day is an answered prayer -- & not just regarding health matters & dodging this particular bullet.


Same result again at my 3rd scheduled follow-up PSA test today -- below 0*.*04 (i.e., undetectable). 

Next follow-up test = December 2009. 

They didn't say why they're switching me to 6-month intervals for follow-up blood tests.  I thought they said I'd be having tests quarterly for 5 years after surgery, then semiannually for 5 more years.  Either I got it wrong or something changed. 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## DeniseM

Wonderful news!  I'm happy for you!


----------



## rickandcindy23

Alan, so glad you chose the best option for you, and I know this good news will continue.


----------



## taffy19

AwayWeGo said:


> Same result again at my 3rd scheduled follow-up PSA test today -- below 0*.*04 (i.e., undetectable).
> 
> Next follow-up test = December 2009.
> 
> They didn't say why they're switching me to 6-month intervals for follow-up blood tests. I thought they said I'd be having tests quarterly for 5 years after surgery, then semiannually for 5 more years. Either I got it wrong or something changed.
> 
> 
> -- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


Your reading had no change so that may be the best news they were hoping for so you no longer have to come this often.

This good news must be music to your ears, Alan!


----------



## SueDonJ

Great news, Alan, and I hope you have continued good health and results ...


----------



## pwrshift

Alan - best news I've heard all day.  Congrats.   

Brian


----------



## AwayWeGo

*So Grateful For Continued Good Medical News.*




AwayWeGo said:


> Same result again at my 3rd scheduled follow-up PSA test today -- below 0*.*04 (i.e., undetectable).
> 
> Next follow-up test = December 2009.


Today's PSA test result continued the streak of undetectable readings (some indeterminate quantity below 0*.*04). 

Now they don't even want to see me again till December 2010. 

I am extremely grateful for the superior treatment & follow-up I have received. 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## Jaybee

Alan, I am so very happy about your outcome (so far...don't want to tempt the gods of superstition).
Philip had a series of 40 short radiation treatments, and completed them Nov. 20.  He goes back this Mon. for his follow-up appt.  He's also had 3, or maybe 4 injections, 3 or 4 months apart. The last ones were something called Trelstar.  Must be something "female", since he complains of hot flashes. 
We're hoping for good results.  Strange disease, this.  He'd never have known he had it, if someone hadn't told him. Makes one wonder, doesn't it?
Merry, healthy Christmas, everyone!  Jean


----------



## cgeidl

*Does flomax cause memory Loss?*

Sorry, I take it but can't remember if it causes memory loss.


----------



## Jaybee

Who knows?  It's a good thing when you need something to blame it on. 




cgeidl said:


> Sorry, I take it but can't remember if it causes memory loss.


----------



## caterina25

I did not see any thread which included the HIFU procedure .HIFU is a treatment for certain confined cancers and is a very good option for some men. The procedure is done in one visit and side effects are minimal. It is currently being tested in trials at many sites in the USA but is only available as a treatment choice outside the USA.I believe it will be approved and be available as a choice in the USA soon. This is just another piece of information that you may use when making a treatment choice. My family just went through a prostate cancer situation and I did some research and HIFU looked promising as treatment choice.
 What is HIFU?
HIFU, which stands for High Intensity Focused Ultrasound, was first developed as a treatment of benign prostate hyperplasia (BPH) and now is also being used as a procedure for the killing of prostate cancer cells. This procedure utilizes transrectal ultrasound that is highly focused into a small area, creating intense heat of 80-100° C, which is lethal to prostate cancer tissue. Since ultrasound is non-ionizing (as opposed to ionizing in radiation), tissue in the entry and exit path of the HIFU beam is not injured.


----------



## AwayWeGo

*Same Again This Year -- Still Extremely Grateful*




AwayWeGo said:


> Today's PSA test result continued the streak of undetectable readings (some indeterminate quantity below 0*.*04).
> 
> Now they don't even want to see me again till December 2010.
> 
> I am extremely grateful for the superior treatment & follow-up I have received.


Undetectable PSA -- below 0*.*04 -- again this year.  

That means they got it all when they removed it in 2008. 

Re-test in 6 months -- plus a reminder to see my regular doctor for a full check-up to make sure everything else is OK (heart, lungs, kidneys, cholesterol, etc.).    

My minor cancer adventure is so minimal in comparison with those of so many others that it's hard for me to think of myself as a Cancer Survivor even though I suppose I am.  

Combined with my gratitude for the outcome of my own treatment are prayers for all the others out there going through their own cancer adventures.  God bless you. 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## AwayWeGo

*N. I. H. Prostate Cancer Diagnosis Story On The Internet.*

Click here for the story.  

The MRI procedure described is like what I got at NIH in 2008 -- except that I had already been diagnosed by conventional ultrasound-guided biopsy before they inserted the apparatus & slid me into the MRI machine.   I did not have to get another biopsy -- I'm guessing that in my case the bad places shown in the MRI pictures coincided with the places the conventional biopsy had already sampled. 

In any case, Dr. Pinto's recommendation following MRI -- surgical removal -- was the same as what my private urologist & my 2d opinion doctor had both recommended.  So I went ahead.  Dr. Pinto did the operation via DaVinci surgical robot.  

The private urologist, by contrast, had recommended conventional open surgery, which is also the technique recommended by my 2d opinion doctor.  So by going with robotic surgery instead of conventional open surgery, I was going against the flow of recommendations from 2 specialists I had seen before going with Dr. Pinto.

Following surgery, all my follow-up PSA test levels have been negligible.  I am satisfied with the outcome of all the medical decisions I made after elevated PSA was found in 2008 at my age 65 Medicare physical. 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## AwayWeGo

*Still Cancer-Free, Thank God.*




AwayWeGo said:


> Following surgery, all my follow-up PSA test levels have been negligible.  I am satisfied with the outcome of all the medical decisions I made after elevated PSA was found in 2008 at my age 65 Medicare physical.


Most recent follow-up test (last month) again found that my PSA level is undetectable, but the latest chapter in the story did not end till today. 

Because tests showed a trace of blood in my urine this time (& last time, December 2010), the doctors ordered C-T scan & bone scan & cystoscopy.  

I got the bone scan last week & the C-T scan the week before that -- but nobody told me any of the results so I was semi-worried, to say the least. 

I got chest X-ray & EKG & another blood test & another urine test the same day as the bone scan.  Those were preparation for cystoscopy, which fortunately for me was done under general anesthesia.  

Undetectable PSA level is an extremely strong indication that the prostate cancer is gone (because all the prostate tissue is gone).  But that string of heavy-duty tests that were ordered for me got the Chief Of Staff halfway convinced that I had developed bladder cancer or kidney cancer or some other kind.  After all, beating 1 form of cancer does not mean a free pass thereafter against all other forms of cancer. 

So today's report straight from the doctor's mouth that my kidneys & bladder, etc., are healthy & cancer-free is specially good news.  The Chief Of Staff & I are both extremely grateful.    

The NIH cancer doctor says I no longer need to go back for any more annual or semi-annual follow-ups.  The family doctor can take it from here, he said.  

Thank God. 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## mrsstats

That great news.  My brother is a survivor.


----------



## MULTIZ321

Alan,


Great News! Thanks for all your follow ups.

Did Medicare inform you to schedule their "free" annual check up or do you just have to sign up for it within a certain timeframe once you enroll in Medicare?

Best regards,

Richard


----------



## Ridewithme38

i know its not a prostate issue...but i've been pooping blood lately...i figured i should tell someone...and since this thread is about yuck stuff...and i don't know any of you guys in Real life...i'm not embarrassed to say it here...

I'm not the type to go to the doctor for every little thing...but if it lasts another month or two...i may be forced to set an appointment


----------



## Passepartout

Ride- If it goes on another month or two you might not need to go to the doc. If this is for real, get thee to thy doc. Now!


----------



## AwayWeGo

*Credit Where Credit Is Due.*




MULTIZ321 said:


> Did Medicare inform you to schedule their "free" annual check up or do you just have to sign up for it within a certain timeframe once you enroll in Medicare?


The Chief Of Staff is up on this sort of thing.  She already knew that people newly enrolled in Medicare are entitled to 1 Medicare physical examination _el freebo_, but the free exam has to be done within the 1st year of Medicare eligibility -- maybe sooner, I don't know, but for sure no later than that. 

So right after I signed up with Medicare, I got a physical exam appointment pronto with a well regarded MD-PhD internist -- & Medicare paid the bill.  The rest is history. 

If The Chief Of Staff had not been savvy about free Medicare physicals, I doubt I would have found out about it in time to take advantage of that feature.  The Medicare pamphlets & web sites, etc., may well spell it all out, I don't know, but that doesn't mean I would have read that part in time to do me any good. 

Hats off to The Chief Of Staff. 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## AwayWeGo

*Don't Wait Another Day.*




Ridewithme38 said:


> i've been pooping blood lately...i figured i should tell someone...and since this thread is about yuck stuff...and i don't know any of you guys in Real life...i'm not embarrassed to say it here...
> 
> I'm not the type to go to the doctor for every little thing...but if it lasts another month or two...i may be forced to set an appointment


Not just some routine little thing -- could be extremely serious. 

Get yourself an appointment as soon as you can.  

Forget embarrassment -- tell'm about the blood. 

Good luck. 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## Ridewithme38

Passepartout said:


> Ride- If it goes on another month or two you might not need to go to the doc. If this is for real, get thee to thy doc. Now!



I'm hoping its just a hemorrhoid, because when i poop it feels like i'm pooping out something sharp and then there's a good amount of blood both in the water and umm, on the paper...it's kinda embarrassing i'm not the kinda guy who feels comfortable spread eagle in front of his doctor... Its been years since i've been to the doctor

Even talking about it here feels odd....


----------



## Passepartout

Ride, it REALLY is something you need to see a doc about. And trust me, If (s)he sees you on the street afterwards (s)he won't recognize you.  People are not supposed to poop blood. GO. ASAP.


----------



## AwayWeGo

*There's Worse Stuff Than Embarrassment.*




Ridewithme38 said:


> i'm not the kinda guy who feels comfortable spread eagle in front of his doctor... Its been years since i've been to the doctor


Hey, I wasn't all that comfortable at the prospect of getting a TV camera & probe, etc., inserted up my urethra so that the doctors could get a good look at the inside of my bladder.  (Fortunately, it was done when I was out cold under anesthesia.  Thinking about it ahead of time was worse then the actual experience.) 

By me, lying there dead in a coffin would be lots more embarrassing than getting various parts of my private anatomy checked out while I'm still alive & kicking. 

I would like to remain on the upper side of the grass as long as possible.  So I put embarrassment aside & get stuff checked out & attended to.  

If it's minor, the doctors will tell me.  

If it's something serious, the doctors can get to work on it right away, while my chances are still good. 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## MULTIZ321

Passepartout said:


> Ride, it REALLY is something you need to see a doc about. And trust me, If (s)he sees you on the street afterwards (s)he won't recognize you.  People are not supposed to poop blood. GO. ASAP.



Ride,

You've received good advice here.  Get this checked out by a physician as soon as possible (read today).


Richard


----------



## Passepartout

Ridewithme38 said:


> it's kinda embarrassing i'm not the kinda guy who feels comfortable spread eagle in front of his doctor... Its been years since i've been to the doctor.



Ride, if you don't have a doc, at least go to one of those corner clinics. I call 'em a "Doc in the Box", but most are open 24 hours and have a doc and a small lab and will give you a recommendation and referral if it's something beyond their scope, (pun intended).

Not the most pleasant thing in the world, but embarrassing is laying in a box with all your friends and family gathered around saying nice things like, "If only he'd gone to a doc. Dummy."

Jim


----------



## rapmarks

my mom was bleeding rectally and it went on for years with the doctor kind of ignoring her because she is old.  Finally he referred her to a doctor who wouldn't give up.  She was diagnosed with Crohn's, given pills, and the bleeding stopped.  she was 90 then, three years ago.  


Medicare now lets us old folks have a physical every year. 
thank god for that and a thorough doctor. She found thyroid cancer before it spread to lymph nodes for me.  too bad the oncologist I have been seeing for previous cancer never checked into more body parts.


----------



## Ridewithme38

Passepartout said:


> Ride, if you don't have a doc, at least go to one of those corner clinics. I call 'em a "Doc in the Box", but most are open 24 hours and have a doc and a small lab and will give you a recommendation and referral if it's something beyond their scope, (pun intended).



Thats a good idea...we have a 'family' doctor i saw since i was a kid, but i haven't seen him in years...Might be better if its a random clinic doctor i go see then the same doctor that see's my parents and brothers 



Passepartout said:


> Not the most pleasant thing in the world, but embarrassing is laying in a box with all your friends and family gathered around saying nice things like, "If only he'd gone to a doc. Dummy."
> Jim



haha, they'll all be whispering about my butt when i'm in the box...thats about the creepiest thing i can think of


----------



## bogey21

Passepartout said:


> Ride, it REALLY is something you need to see a doc about. And trust me, If (s)he sees you on the street afterwards (s)he won't recognize you.  People are not supposed to poop blood. GO. ASAP.


Pardon the bluntness, but you are a fool if you don't get this checked out ASAP.  I had a friend who had somewhat similar symptoms; he held off getting it checked out; when he finally got around to getting it checked it turned out to be colon cancer; he died weeks later.  True story!!

George


----------



## rapmarks

bogey21 said:


> Pardon the bluntness, but you are a fool if you don't get this checked out ASAP. I had a friend who had somewhat similar symptoms; he held off getting it checked out; when he finally got around to getting it checked it turned out to be colon cancer; he died weeks later. True story!!
> 
> George


 
a friend had colon cancer, had a section removed, and no chemo or radioation, is fine, so don't be afraid to go in.


----------



## mrsstats

Ride:

Go to the dr.  There is nothing to be emarassed about.  This could be your life that you are talking about.


----------



## caterina25

Ridewithme38 said:


> i know its not a prostate issue...but i've been pooping blood lately...i figured i should tell someone...and since this thread is about yuck stuff...and i don't know any of you guys in Real life...i'm not embarrassed to say it here...
> 
> I'm not the type to go to the doctor for every little thing...but if it lasts another month or two...i may be forced to set an appointment



Most blood that is red and visible when you go to the bathroom is caused by hemorrhoids. The test for colon cancer is a test for occult blood (blood you cannot see) another bad sign is black tarry stool. Those symptoms are more serious than red blood that you can see. Go get a check up to ease your mind.


----------



## fnover

You have gotten good advice, I was bleeding bright red blood but it wasn't hemorrhoids it was from diverticulosis which required a colon resection.
Even if the bleeding is from hemorrhoids and has been going on for a long time you should still have it checked out because you could be anemic because of it.


----------



## Miss Marty

*New Urine Test Might Help Predict Prostate Cancer Risk*

WEDNESDAY, Aug. 3 (HealthDay News) 

A new urine test might help doctors detect prostate cancer and 
better evaluate a patient's treatment options, researchers say.

The test looks for two genetic markers associated with prostate cancer. 
The first, called TMPRSS2:ERG, is caused by two genes changing places and fusing together; it is thought to cause prostate cancer. Since the gene fusion is only seen in about half of cancer patients, the test also looks for another marker, called PCA3. 

The two genetic markers may be more reliable indicators of prostate cancer, he said. One of them, TMPRSS2:ERG, is only seen in cancer

The researchers specifically looked for the two markers and used them to slot the men into high-, intermediate- or low-risk groups for prostate cancer. They then compared their results with the results from biopsies, which are done with a needle in a physician's office for detection of any cancer cells. 

Although not yet available to the public, the test soon will be offered at the University of Michigan.  The test is licensed to Gen-Probe, a San Diego maker of genetically based diagnostic tests.


----------



## funtime

I hope you are going to the doctor.  He probably sees a lot of cases that are far less serious than yours.  It really will be no big deal to him.  And, it could be that they just take a stool sample - who knows.  What I do know is that there are dedicated colon cancer doctors who live for the chance to detect colon cancer as the earlier it is detected the better.  My Mom had colon surgery when she was 93 - she tried to put up with the problem for too long as she is part of that generation that does not discuss things "down there" but she was mighty glad that my sister insisted that she go to the doctor.  He sent her right on to the hospital from his doctor's office and she got excellent treatment.  She sailed through with flying colors and if she can do that at 93, you can trek down to the doctor's office.  If you are not insured, a "doc in the box" at the least is an option - they are trained to sort out minor problems from serious ones and I know of "doc in the boxes" who screened and sent uninsured patient to emergency room if it was beyond their area of expertise.  And if it does turn out to be hemorroids, (probably the most benign diagnosis but not guarantee that that is what it is) there are things they can do for that too so let us know that you are making that trek!  Janette aka Funtime


----------



## Miss Marty

*Urology: Bladder, Prostate and Kidney Imaging*

*
Ultrasound *

An ultrasound examination, also commonly referred to as a sonogram, is a painless, diagnostic technique that makes use of the behavior of sound waves in the human body. When these sound waves are transmitted into the body, they are reflected in specific ways by specific tissues and organs. These reflected waves can be used to produce images of internal organs without harm or exposure to radiation.

Depending on the reason for the study and the circumstances, ultrasound imaging may be performed in the urologist's office, in the hospital or in an outpatient facility.

http://www.urologyhealth.org/urology/index.cfm?article=40


----------



## AwayWeGo

*Advanced Technology For Seeing The Unseen.*




Miss Marty said:


> Ultrasound


The private urologist who did my 2008 prostate biopsy used a device guided by ultrasound. 

Last year, when my NIH urologist sent me to my family doctor for some follow-up not directly related to prostate surgery, my family doctor ordered sonograms (ultrasound) of my kidneys & bladder.  No problems showed up. 

This year, when my NIH urologist decided I needed more follow-up, I mentioned the earlier sonograms.  "Ultrasound images are not detailed enough for kidneys & bladder," he said.  So he ordered C-T scan & cystoscopy.  No problems showed up from those, either. 

Click here for a story about another patient's diagnostic experience with my NIH doctor. 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## tombo

TUG is an unusual place to discuss prostate cancer, but it caught my eye because of my current situation.

 My father had prostate cancer with removal of his prostate and radiation and leupron over the last 20 years. He is 80, diagnosed in late 50's. His PSA since the surgery and cemo remained at .02 or so. Not long ago it went up to 1 and they were about to put him on Leupron again (which he hates because of the side effects). They waited 6 months and thankfully his PSA dropped so they are waitning and watching.

My Dad always tells me to get checked every year. I haven't been to the Dr for the physical in 3 years. I finally after prodding from my wife went 2 weeks ago. My PSA was 1.8 in 2008 so nothing to worry about. My PSA was 4.1 two weeks ago. Thanks to not getting an annual check up my Dr does not know whether my PSA increase has been gradual over 3 years (not much cause for concern), or fast growing during the last few months (great cause for concern). I knew better but the 1.8 three years ago lulled me into a false sense of security. By missing 3 years I have made the correct diagnosis harder if not impossible. Is it fast growing requiring aggressive action or simply a slow rising PSA that we simply need to wait and watch. We don't know because I don't have PSA results for the last 3 years. I see the urologist tomorrow to see how to proceed. Probably won't sleep too well tonight. 

Anyone out there 50 or older or who has a family history of prostate cancer please do no miss a single year's check-up. I can promise you that if I survive this scare that I will not miss one again.


----------



## rickandcindy23

> Anyone out there 50 or older or who has a family history of prostate cancer please do no miss a single year's check-up. I can promise you that if I survive this scare that I will not miss one again.



Ironically, my husband's father (now gone) had prostate cancer, which the doctors discovered when he was about 62 or so.  

Rick's oldest brother had it and is now "cured."  So Rick had a PSA check about exactly 2 weeks ago, and his number was very low, about what yours was 3 years ago.  This is a warning for Rick to get tested next year again.  As we all age, the time goes by much faster, and this is definitely true for us, now in our mid-fifties.  I need to mark our newest calendar for next August.  

Ronnie was about 60, when his PSA was through the roof.  The seed therapy was awful for him.  He is doing well, but it was a long road to get back to this point.  He is now back at his music again, which is good for him.


----------



## cgeidl

*Flomax Memory loss??*

Have taken it but can't remember if it causes loss or not.


----------



## Passepartout

cgeidl said:


> Have taken it but can't remember if it causes loss or not.



Flomax is now available as a generic (Tamsulosin) at very low cost. Memory loss is not listed as a side effect. Here is a link to the side effects: http://men.emedtv.com/tamsulosin/tamsulosin-side-effects.html

It is used to shrink the common enlargement of the prostate in many men. Has nothing to do with prostate cancer. Cancer can exist in 'normal' size prostate or an enlarged one at about the same rate.

If you can't remember, it'll likely to have another cause. 

Jim Ricks


----------



## AwayWeGo

*The Doctors Consider PSA "Velocity" As Much As The Actual PSA Numbers -- Or More.*




tombo said:


> I finally after prodding from my wife went 2 weeks ago. My PSA was 1.8 in 2008 so nothing to worry about. My PSA was 4.1 two weeks ago. Thanks to not getting an annual check up my Dr does not know whether my PSA increase has been gradual over 3 years (not much cause for concern), or fast growing during the last few months (great cause for concern). I knew better but the 1.8 three years ago lulled me into a false sense of security. By missing 3 years I have made the correct diagnosis harder if not impossible. Is it fast growing requiring aggressive action or simply a slow rising PSA that we simply need to wait and watch. We don't know because I don't have PSA results for the last 3 years. I see the urologist tomorrow to see how to proceed. Probably won't sleep too well tonight.
> 
> Anyone out there 50 or older or who has a family history of prostate cancer please do no miss a single year's check-up. I can promise you that if I survive this scare that I will not miss one again.


PSA tests started out with FDA approval only for use in judging the results of prostate cancer treatment after the fact.  That is, if the patient's PSA numbers stayed low after surgery or radiation, etc., then the low number was taken as an indication that there was little chance recurrence or metastasis had happened.  

Later, FDA OKd PSA testing to help diagnose prostate cancer, while cautioning that PSA numbers by themselves don't tell the whole story.  Physical exam is still important.  Ditto biopsy, depending on physical exam results & patient symptoms, etc.  

My doctor was more alarmed by the rapid rise in my PSA numbers than by the actual PSA level.  Reading of 3.9 at age 65 got me a re-test in 6 months.  Big increase after just 6 months got me an appointment with the urologist -- & the rest is history.  

Following radical prostatectomy in 2008, all my follow-up PSA tests have been at the "undetectable" level -- as good an indication as there is that all the cancer is gone, with little risk of recurrent or metastatic prostate cancer.  They'll keep on doing periodic PSA tests on me, just to make sure.  (Can't complain about that.)  

In all, I feel like I dodged a bullet.  

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## bogey21

AwayWeGo said:


> My doctor was more alarmed by the rapid rise in my PSA numbers than by the actual PSA level.  Reading of 3.9 at age 65 got me a re-test in 6 months.  Big increase after just 6 months got me an appointment with the urologist -- & the rest is history.



My urologist is a big believer in PSA "doubling time".  When mine jumped from something like 1.2 to 2.4 in six months about 10 years ago I immediately had biopsy of my prostate which confirmend prostate cancer.  I was treated with radiation (both IMRT and HDR).  Minor relapse about 5 years ago treated with partial cryosurgery (freezing part of prostate down to something like minus 140 degrees).  Since then PSA has been essentially "undetectable".

George


----------



## AwayWeGo

*Johns Hopkins Health Alerts.*

Click here to sign up for free health E-Mail from Johns Hopkins, including information about prostate cancer & other prostate ailments. 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## tombo

AwayWeGo said:


> PIn all, I feel like I dodged a bullet.
> 
> -- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​



I hope I can dodge that bullet too.

Urologist not making it sound good. I aksed him what are the odds that I  have cancer. He said that with a PSA of 4.1 at age 65 he would normally say that it was probably about a 30% chance it was cancer. With me having a PSA over 4 at my age and with family history (father had prostate cancer) he would guess my odds of having cancer are much higher. Not what I was hoping to hear.

Biopsy scheduled for the 30th. Results in a week or 2?


----------



## AwayWeGo

*I Resemble That Remark.*




tombo said:


> He said that with a PSA of 4.1 at age 65 he would normally say that it was probably about a 30% chance it was cancer. With me having a PSA over 4 at my age and with family history (father had prostate cancer) he would guess my odds of having cancer are much higher. Not what I was hoping to hear.
> 
> Biopsy scheduled for the 30th. Results in a week or 2?


Urologist told me chance I had cancer was 30% -- i.e., better than 2 to 1 that I did not have it. 

So when biopsy results came back 3 cores positive, that meant I lost even though the odds were in my favor. 

So it goes. 

Best wishes to you, tombo, for a favorable outcome.  

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## tombo

Thanks for the well wishes. Hopefully the biopsy will turn out well, but if not I will be asking a lot of questions here and other places after he tells me the options.


----------



## RDB

LAB results prior to being cleared for back surgery showed a PSA of 6. *I wasn't going to go for surgery if cancer was to be fought.*
My bladder, liver and kidneys were also studied, as was my heart and arteries.
Even a colonoscopy was done to rule out Polyps .

Urology took 12 biopsies of the prostate. All showed negative. Appearantly my protate enlargement causes the high PSA.  

Prescribed was FINASTERIDE (PROSCAR).
It is used to treat benign prostatic hyperplasia (BPH) in men. This is a condition that causes you to have an enlarged prostate. This medicine helps to control your symptoms, decrease urinary retention, and reduces your risk of needing surgery. When used in combination with certain other medicines, this drug can slow down the progression of your disease.

LORARTAN was also prescribed.  It is an angiotensin II receptor antagonist drug used mainly to treat high blood pressure (hypertension).               As with all angiotensin II type 1 receptor (AT1) antagonists, losartan is indicated for the treatment of hypertension. It may also delay progression of diabetic nephropathy, and is also indicated for the reduction of renal disease progression in patients with type 2 diabetes, hypertension and microalbuminuria (>30 mg/24 hours) or proteinuria (>900 mg/24 hours.
Although clinical evidence shows calcium channel blockers and thiazide-type diuretics are preferred first-line treatments for most patients (from both efficacy and cost points of view), an angiotensin II receptor antagonist such as losartan is recommended as first-line treatment in patients under the age of 55 who cannot tolerate an ACE inhibitor.[1] The LIFE study demonstrated losartan was significantly superior to atenolol in the primary prevention of adverse cardiovascular events (myocardial infarction or stroke), with a significant reduction in cardiovascular morbidity and mortality for a comparable reduction in blood pressure. A recent study [2] hints that losartan has beneficial effects on mitohondria by reversing age related dysfunction.

Prescribed also was Furosemide, a 'water pill,' used to reduce swelling and fluid retention caused by various medical problems, including heart or liver disease.

I'm 73.


----------



## KCI

My husband had a psa of 5.01 in Oct 2009.  We moved from SC to FL in Nov and went to a new urologist, who did a DRE and ordered a biopsy in Dec, which showed no cancer in any of the 12 core samples.  Over the next 2 years, my husband had 6 psa tests, no DRE, and his psa went from 5.01 to 16.2, at which time the doctor ordered another biopsy, which showed aggressive cancer in 8 of the 12 core samples and a gleason score of 9.  A bone scan and CT scan showed no spread of the cancer and we went to Moffitt Cancer Center in Tampa and they confirmed the diagnosis.  We have changed doctors as we feel his lack of DRE and overly confident attitude regarding the PSA #s were directly responsible for the fact that this was not diagnosed sooner.  We are now about to start on 6-10 weeks of radiation therapy with 2 years of hormone therapy to starve the cancer of testosterone.  We have read more than we ever wanted to know about this subject and still have more questions than answers...I know we should have been wiser and demanded more testing early on but when the dr says "even if cancer had started the day after the 1st  biopsy that prostate cancer is so slow growing it would be very minimal after 2 years, you believe what he says when he is so highly recommended by the entire community".   ALL I CAN SAY IS DO NOT BELIEVE EVERYTHING YOUR DOCTOR SAYS...please keep us in your thoughts as we start this scary journey and hope that the treatment is enough to destroy the cancer.


----------



## AwayWeGo

*Faith In Your Doctor(s), Yes.  Blind Faith, No.*




KCI said:


> DO NOT BELIEVE EVERYTHING YOUR DOCTOR SAYS...please keep us in your thoughts as we start this scary journey and hope that the treatment is enough to destroy the cancer.


It's important to have confidence in your physician(s). 

It's also important in some cases to get a 2nd opinion.  And sometimes a 3rd opinion. 

All best wishes for a favorable outcome. 

God bless you. 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## Miss Marty

*Flomax is now available as a generic (Tamsulosin)*

Q: Will taking Tamulosin once a day cause 
lower back pain in the left side and slow urine flow


----------



## Passepartout

Miss Marty said:


> Q: Will taking Tamulosin once a day cause
> lower back pain in the left side and slow urine flow



Haven't noticed it and that is not listed as a possible side effect. In fact the Tamsulosin is supposed to relax the prostate and increase the urine flow. Should have no effect on pain either way. You might take this up with your urologist.

Jim


----------



## Miss Marty

*The Comprehensive Metabolic Panel (CMP & CBC)*

*
Dec 1st
Tests Ordered*

The Comprehensive Metabolic Panel (CMP) is a frequently ordered panel of tests that gives your doctor important information about the current status of your kidneys, liver, and electrolyte and acid/base balance as well as of your blood sugar and blood proteins. Abnormal results, and especially combinations of abnormal results, can indicate a problem that needs to be addressed. 

The CMP is typically a group of 14 specific tests that have been approved, named, and assigned a CPT code (a Current Procedural Terminology number) as a panel by Medicare, although labs may adjust the number of tests up or down. Since the majority of insurance companies also use these names and CPT codes in their claim processing, this grouping of tests has become standardized throughout the United States.

The CMP includes:

Glucose 
Calcium 
Both increased and decreased levels can be significant.

Proteins

Albumin 
Total Protein 
Albumin, a small protein produced in the liver, is the major protein in serum. Total protein measures albumin as well as all other proteins in serum. Both increases and decreases in these test results can be significant.

Electrolytes

Sodium 
Potassium  
CO2 (carbon dioxide, bicarbonate) 
Chloride 
The concentrations of sodium and potassium are tightly regulated by the body as is the balance between the four molecules. Electrolyte (and acid-base) imbalances can be present with a wide variety of acute and chronic illnesses. Chloride and CO2 tests are rarely ordered by themselves.

Kidney Tests

BUN (blood urea nitrogen) 
Creatinine 
BUN and creatinine are waste products filtered out of the blood by the kidneys. Increased concentrations in the blood may indicate a temporary or chronic decrease in kidney function. When not ordered as part of the CMP, they are still usually ordered together.

Liver Tests

ALP (alkaline phosphatase) 
ALT (alanine amino transferase, also called SGPT) 
AST (aspartate amino transferase, also called SGOT) 
Bilirubin 

ALP, ALT, and AST are enzymes found in the liver and other tissues. Bilirubin is a waste product produced by the liver as it breaks down and recycles aged red blood cells. All can be found in elevated concentrations in the blood with liver disease or dysfunction.


----------



## Miss Marty

*Proscar - Finasteride 5mg Round Blue Tablets*

Anyone use Proscar or Finasteride generic to treat BPH
How long did it take before symptoms improved. Any size effects

Finasteride improves symptoms of BPH such as frequent and difficult 
urination and may reduce the chance of acute urinary retention ...

Finasteride is used alone or in combination with another medication  
 (doxazosin [Cardura]) to treat benign prostatic hypertrophy BPH 
enlargement of the prostate gland.


----------



## Passepartout

I tried Finasteride but went back to tamsolusin after a few weeks of no measurable improvement in symptoms. Tamsulosin is almost immediate.

Jim


----------



## AwayWeGo

*Whoa!  Did I Give Myself Prostate Cancer By Trying To Prevent It ?*

Daily vitamin E for a long time was recommended to reduce cancer risks, including prostate cancer.  So I swallowed some every day for years & years, along with other supplements (vitamin C, fish oil, folic acid, etc.). 

Recently I heard a piece of radio news saying scientists have changed their minds about vitamin E.  Now they say vitamin E can _increase_ prostate cancer risk by as much as 17%, & so men should stop taking it.  _(Duh!)_

For me, it's all _mox nix_.  I had (successful) radical surgery in 2008 to treat early-stage prostate cancer & I am OK now (far as I know).  

But the new recommendation about not taking vitamin E has me wondering whether I brought on prostate cancer myself by taking those dumb capsules for all those years back when the stuff was still recommended for guarding against cancer. 

I ought to quit listening to radio news & just stick with the Top 10 Tunes on iPod.  Sheesh. 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## bogey21

KCI said:


> Over the next 2 years, my husband had 6 psa tests, no DRE, and his psa went from 5.01 to 16.2......



I remember the days when we were told not to worry unless one's PSA exceeded 4.0.  Fortunately for me my doctor was of the mind that doubling time was a more important indicator than the 4.0 target.  Ten years ago when my PSA "doubled" from a little over 1.0 to over 2.0 in six months my doctor reacted aggressively.  Testing found the cancer which was treated with both IMRT and High Dose Rate radiation.  Five years later when my PSA rose from 0.10 to 0.43 again in about 6 months I demanded that we once again  aggressively search for the cancer.  We found it, and treated it with Cryosurgery.  No problems since.  My PSA has been steady at somewhere between  0.07 and 0.11for the last 5 years or so.  What I learned from all this is that one has to watch one's own PSA like a hawk and to move quickly at the first sign of a potential problem.

George

PS  I now get my PSA tested every 4 months.  A little overkill but it gives me peace of mind


----------



## isisdave

I use finasteride. It took several weeks to have any noticeable difference, and maybe six weeks to start to really relieve things ... but after a year my PSA was down from 8 to 2.7.

I'm 62 and have been fooling with this since 2003 when I scored 7.7 on my first screening test.  Two biopsies since, nothing found, and my UCLA urologist who does this all day long does not seem worried.

Did anyone here take fen-phen for weight loss back in 1996?  I did, and had some acute prostate symptoms then. I was only 47.  I think there's a connection, but have never been able to find any suggestion of that online.


----------



## Miss Marty

*Cancer Free Prostate Needle Biopsy and Tissue Diagnosis*

In January, 2012  I was able to watch as the doctor performed a 
Prostate Needle Biopsy on Bill at Johns Hopkins Hospital  Bayview.

Test results came back in early February 
_No Sign of Cancer _
Diagnosis: Enlarged Prostate
Benign Prostatic Hyperplasia 
Laser Surgery mid February

The Statement of Physician Services just came in and I thought
I would share the cost/fees that were submitted to our Insurance.

Prostate Needle Biopsy (done in the doctors office)  
Charges $1,270. Pending Insurance Adjustment 

Pathology Tissue Diagnosis  
$684.00  Adjusted to $226.98

Subject to a $350 deductible

Prostate Biopsy

A biopsy may be done when a blood test shows a high level of prostate-specific antigen (PSA) or after a digital rectal examination finds an abnormal prostate or a lump.

Why It Is Done

A prostate biopsy is done to determine:
If a lump found in the prostate gland is cancer. 

A prostate gland biopsy is a test to remove small samples of prostate tissue to be examined under a microscope. 

For a prostate biopsy, a thin needle is inserted through the rectum (transrectal biopsy), through the urethra, or through the area between the anus and scrotum (perineum). A transrectal biopsy is the most common method used. The tissue samples taken during the biopsy are examined for cancer cells.

If a prostate biopsy is done under local anesthesia through the area between the anus and scrotum (perineum), no other special preparation is needed.


----------



## Miss Marty

*Surgery for Benign Prostatic Hyperplasia - BPH -TUPR and LASER*

Surgery usually is not required to treat BPH, although some men may choose it because their symptoms bother them so much. Choosing surgery depends largely on your preferences and comfort with the idea of having surgery. Things to consider include your expectation of the results of the surgery, the severity of your symptoms, and the possibility of having complications from the surgery.

(TURP) Transurethral Resection of the Prostate Surgery for BPH
(Laser) GreenLight Surgery for Benign Prostatic Hyperplasia BPH


----------



## Miss Marty

*Metatarsalgia after Surgery*

*
Anyone develope Metatarsalgia after Surgery
due to "swelling" of the body, legs and feet?*

Metatarsalgia is a general term used to denote a painful foot condition in the metatarsal region of the foot (the area just before the toes, more commonly referred to as the ball-of-the-foot). This is a very common foot disorder.  It can affect the bones and joints at the ball-of-the-foot. 
Metatarsalgia (ball-of-foot-pain) is often located under the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th metatarsal heads, or more isolated at the first metatarsal head (near the big toe).  The most common location is just the second metatarsal head.  The main symptom of metatarsalgia is _pain_ in the ball of your foot  the part of the sole just behind your toes. The pain may be sharp, aching or burning, and you may feel it in the area around the second, third and fourth toes or only near your big toe.


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## AwayWeGo

*PSA Still Undetectable.  Other Medical Tests OK Too.*




AwayWeGo said:


> I had (successful) radical surgery in 2008 to treat early-stage prostate cancer & I am OK now (far as I know).


Cancer doctor referred me back to my regular family doctor for follow-ups following successful cancer surgery.  Blood test last month showed PSA at lower than the lowest detectable number -- i.e., could be zero, but they don't say zero because the tests don't go that low. 

Plus, blood pressure & blood sugar & triglycerides were all OK.  

Not only that, results of the treadmill-style heart stress test they ran me through were also normal -- so normal that the doctor who administered the test asked me why the prescribing doctor had ordered stress test in the 1st place. 

"I don't know," I said.  "Just being thorough, I suppose."

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


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## Miss Marty

*Oh boy,  blood in my urine, not a good sign...*

_
Don`t forget to have a microscopic urinalysis?_
_Urinalysis is a very useful test that may be ordered by your physician_

*What can the presence of red blood cells in the urine mean?*

Red blood cells can enter the urine from the vagina in menstruation or from the trauma of bladder catheterization.

A high count of red blood cells in the urine can indicate infection, trauma, tumors, or kidney stones. If red blood cells seen under microscopy look distorted, they suggest kidney as the possible source and may arise due to kidney inflammation (glomerulonephritis). Small amounts of red blood cells in the urine are sometimes seen young healthy people and usually are not indicative of any disease. 

*What can the presence of white blood cells in the urine mean?*

Urine is a generally thought of as a sterile body fluid, therefore, evidence of white blood cells or bacteria in the urine is considered abnormal and may suggest a urinary tract infection such as, bladder infection (cystitis), infection of kidney (pyelonephritis). White blood cells may be detected in the urine through a microscopic examination (pyuria or leukocytes in the blood). They can be seen under high power field and the number of cells are recorded (quantitative). 

White cells from the vagina or the opening of the urethra (in males, too) can contaminate a urine sample. Such contamination aside, the presence of abnormal numbers of white blood cells in the urine is significant.

www. medicinenet .com


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## Miss Marty

*Hi AwayWeGo*

*
To maintain a lifestyle that is healthy, it is important to feel happy and stress-free. You can also go on occasional (timeshare) vacations, to dump all your worries aside and get on with the fun in life. Thanks for updates!


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## AwayWeGo

*Some Remarks That I Resemble.*

Click here for another prostate cancer patient's account of what's up not only with his own case, but also with procedures & physicians involved that are familiar to me because those physicians treated me using those procedures in 2008. 

I am OK now -- so OK that my cancer doctor no longer wants to see me for follow-ups, which he says my regular family doctor can handle from here on out. 

I am extremely grateful to have had such good diagnosis & treatment with such a positive outcome.  

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


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## bogey21

IMO the most important thing (at least one of the most important things) to take out of the story is that his prostate cancer was caught early, not because of a high PSA but a sudden doubling of his PSA.  It used to be if your PSA was below 4, doctors said you were fine.  They have now found out doubling time is the better indicator.  

Mine jumped from just over 1 to about 2 in less than 6 months five or six years after radiation treatment.  Doctor got right on the case and found recurrence of cancer and performed cryo surgery on the half of the prostate which contained the cancer.  My PSA has been undetectible for about 5 years now.

George


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## Miss Marty

*Medicare A*

January:  Negative Prostate Needle Biopsy No Sign of Cancer 
February:  "185 minute Laser Surgery" for Enlarged Prostate 

Hospital Claim for Prostate Surgery & SICU
was finally submitted and paid in June 2012

Charged $9,767.19 - Approved $9,767.19 
*One or more procedures denied by Medicare.
Adjusted $8,025.15 -  Deductible $1,156.00 

Deductible submitted to secondary Insurance.
Remember to get your annual prostate exam!


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## AwayWeGo

*That Ship Has Sailed.  That Toothpaste Is Out Of The Tube.  Etc.*




Miss Marty said:


> Remember to get your annual prostate exam!


After surgical removal, there's no more need for annual exams -- nothing there the doctor can check. 

But post-surgery PSA tests are still important to make sure there's no recurrence at the site or metastatically.  (In fact, original approval of PSA tests was for post-treatment follow-up only, not diagnosis.)

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


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## Miss Marty

*AwayWeGo*

About how much did Medicare and your Federal Government Health Insurance paid out for your Prostate Surgery & Treatment


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## SmithOp

Miss Marty said:


> January:  Negative Prostate Needle Biopsy No Sign of Cancer
> February:  "185 minute Laser Surgery" for Enlarged Prostate
> 
> Hospital Claim for Prostate Surgery & SICU
> was finally submitted and paid in June 2012
> 
> Charged $9,767.19 - Approved $9,767.19
> *One or more procedures denied by Medicare.
> Adjusted $8,025.15 -  Deductible $1,156.00
> 
> Deductible submitted to secondary Insurance.
> Remember to get your annual prostate exam!



I had same procedures, psa was 6.8 in Jan at annual check, biopsy in Mar (neg), green light laser apr 30.

Bill just came:
52648 - laser vaporization of prostate   $7,093.00

Private insurance, I paid $45 co-pay for 3 office visits, nothing on bill because I used contract urologist. The bill shows $6,299.34 as the contract rate, discount applied of $793.66. 

I did not go to a hospital, it was a surgery center so costs were lower and it was 120 min procedure.


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## AwayWeGo

*Zippity-Doodah.*




Miss Marty said:


> About how much did Medicare and your Federal Government Health Insurance paid out for your Prostate Surgery & Treatment


_El freebo_ all the way.

I was a clinical research guinea pig at the National Cancer Institute of the National Institutes Of Health, Bethesda, Maryland -- not for the surgical treatment itself, which was non-experimental state of the art (DaVinci surgical robot, etc.), but for the advanced high-definition MRI diagnostic imaging they did before surgery.  

I already had cancer diagnosis via conventional biopsy, but the wizards at the Cancer Institute took me in anyhow.  Once I was under their wing for their diagnostic program, they took me through the whole 9 yards -- treatment, rehabilitation, follow-up, & all that, at no charge.  That is, they absorb all costs without making their medical research subjects pay any bills, either out of pocket or through Blue Cross & Medicare -- your tax dollars at work.

_Full Disclosure*:*_  I am covered by Medicare plus supplemental "medigap" insurance that covers Medicare deductibles, etc.  I have every reason to believe that my out of pocket expenses would have been low to none if I had gone ahead with treatment by my private urologist instead of switching to the National Cancer Institute.  In fact, surgery by my private urologist was already scheduled & all the pre-op testing done when I changed courses just 1 week ahead of the scheduled operation.  All the details are spelled out here on TUG-BBS way back in some of the earlier entries on this discussion topic, round about 2008.

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


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## bogey21

I had both IMRT and High Dose Radiation in 2000 and Cryosurgery on half the prostate in 2006 due to partial radiation failure.  Radiation was in Hackensack, NJ and Cryo was in Rochester Hills, MI.  Since Cryo PSA has been something like 0.04.  Medicare and Back-up Insurance paid 100% of cost except for travel, lodging, etc.  Travel, lodging, etc. were deductions on my Federal Income Tax.

George


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## AwayWeGo

*Clean Bill Of Health For 4½ Years.  Another 6 Months & I'm "Cured."*




AwayWeGo said:


> But post-surgery PSA tests are still important to make sure there's no recurrence at the site or metastatically.  (In fact, original approval of PSA tests was for post-treatment follow-up only, not diagnosis.)


Recent PSA blood test showed I am OK following prostate removal surgery done in October 2008.  

Result = < 0*.*05 ng/mL

Every day is an answered prayer.  I am extremely grateful.  

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


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## AwayWeGo

*Fish Oil Might Increase Prostate Cancer Risk?  What Next ?*




AwayWeGo said:


> Daily vitamin E for a long time was recommended to reduce cancer risks, including prostate cancer.  So I swallowed some every day for years & years, along with other supplements (vitamin C, fish oil, folic acid, etc.).
> 
> Recently I heard a piece of radio news saying scientists have changed their minds about vitamin E.  Now they say vitamin E can _increase_ prostate cancer risk by as much as 17%, & so men should stop taking it.  _(Duh!)_
> 
> For me, it's all _mox nix_.  I had (successful) radical surgery in 2008 to treat early-stage prostate cancer & I am OK now (far as I know).
> 
> But the new recommendation about not taking vitamin E has me wondering whether I brought on prostate cancer myself by taking those dumb capsules for all those years back when the stuff was still recommended for guarding against cancer.
> 
> I ought to quit listening to radio news & just stick with the Top 10 Tunes on iPod.  Sheesh.


Now they're saying fish oil supplements might also raise the risk of bad prostate cancer -- not that there's any _good_ prostate cancer, only bad & less bad. 

It's not a slam-dunk against fish oil, but stories have started circulating.  Click here for an example. 

As with Vitamin E, it's all _mox nix_ in my case.  Still, it makes me wonder what other good health recommendations floating around out there might not be as solid as previously believed. 

So it goes. 

_Full Disclosure*:*_  I take a fish oil capsule practically every day.  Might help guard against heart disease, etc., I don't know.  Prostate is gone, so no worries over that.  

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


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## SmithOp

AwayWeGo said:


> Now they're saying fish oil supplements might also raise the risk of bad prostate cancer -- not that there's any _good_ prostate cancer, only bad & less bad.
> 
> It's not a slam-dunk against fish oil, but stories have started circulating.  Click here for an example.
> 
> As with Vitamin E, it's all _mox nix_ in my case.  Still, it makes me wonder what other good health recommendations floating around out there might not be as solid as previously believed.
> 
> So it goes.
> 
> _Full Disclosure*:*_  I take a fish oil capsule practically every day.  Might help guard against heart disease, etc., I don't know.  Prostate is gone, so no worries over that.
> 
> -- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​



I'm taking 5mg finasteride to lower my psa.  I take no supplements.  I was reading a holistic Dr account that by getting testosterone / estrogen out of balance it can promote prostate cancer. I have no idea what to do, so I try not to think about it and just enjoy life.


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## Miss Marty

*Thanks everyone for your health updates!*

Bill went for his yearly check-up in June
PSA & Sonogram  Results came back OK.

Remember all men are at risk for prostate problems, which include prostate cancer, benign prostatic hyperplasia (BPH), and prostatitis. 
Find out more from your MD by having an annual prostate exam.


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## AwayWeGo

*If 5 Years Of Near-Zero PSA Means I'm Cured, Then I'm Cured.*




AwayWeGo said:


> Recent PSA blood test showed I am OK following prostate removal surgery done in October 2008.
> 
> Result = < 0*.*05 ng/mL
> 
> Every day is an answered prayer.  I am extremely grateful.


PSA test done last month at 5-year mark following surgery gave the identical result. 

I guess that means I'm cured. 

If so, then I have to say the whole thing was worth it -- testing, biopsy, surgery, recovery, follow-up, & ongoing repeat PSA tests.  

My good luck in escaping the worst feared side effects of prostate surgery (i.e., incontinence, impotence) is an added bonus.

Life is good. 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


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## SueDonJ

Life is VERY good, Alan.  So happy to hear your healthy news.


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