# The long goodbye to DRI



## mysticah

I have been reading the tug forums for a few years now trying to stay abreast of the latest DRI antics. I appreciate everyone's post and think I have read them all, lol. 

I have not seen any current, relevant posts for my situation, so please forgive the length of my post and help if you can.

Stats:
We own (free and clear) a deeded 'Copper' every other year to a 'Prime' property
It was purchased through the now defunct ILX/Varsity Resorts in Tucson AZ
The home property was The Los Abrigados in Sedona
We stopped paying maintenance fees in 2010

We did not become aware that DRI had purchased ILX until well after the fact when our new DRI fees, including Club fees, became due. I believe this was Jan 09. I called them in shock at the huge jump in maintenance fees and to question the club fees. After listening to what sounded an awful lot like a lengthy sales presentation about The Club, I told them firmly, multiple times that I was not interested in their club and to remove the charge. At that point I was told in no uncertain terms that I could pay the fee or become delinquent and go to collections, the 'opt-out' period had past. Insisting I had NEVER received notice of the club or opt-opt period did no good. To maintain our good credit, I paid.

2010 brought more club fees and another huge jump in maintenance fees. After lots of research and careful consideration, including the fact that we have never, not once, used our timeshare, we decided to just stop paying. After all, our contract was with ILX for a deeded week (with 6 flex weeks) and DRI had materially changed the contract to eliminate our flex weeks and force us to a points system. 

The first couple years the collection dept called a few times and every time I told them I would not discuss anything over the phone and all communication must be via mail. They refused to accept that unless I 'verified' my account and balance due, thereby trying to get me to acknowledge the debt. I refused so they kept calling and eventually I blocked their number. I continued to get statements and the occasional nasty gram threatening to block my access, etc.

Today I got a call from a Bay Area number, 415-889-2767, the gentleman named Ralph Rios (?) claimed to be calling from DRI headquarters in FLORIDA and said he was my Vacation Coordinator. He wantied to know if I had received my upgrade options in the mail, if not he could go over them, or I could supply him my email and he would happily email them to me. Um no. Not sure if this relates to DRI or is a scam.

After that interesting call I got a letter today from First American title giving me notice of delinquent assessment and threatening a Non-Judicial foreclosure if I do not bring my account current within 30 days.

So, after 5 years of refusing to pay maintenance and club fees, it has come to this. 

While in theory a non-judicial foreclosure sounds like a great way to finally be done with DRI since they can't come after us for any shortfalls, however our concern is whether we will take a foreclosure hit on our credit, not an option!

Since I bought prior to Jan 1, 2009, Arizona statute has a clause that I can prevent a Non-judicial foreclosure, thereby forcing them to persue legal action, which I am sure DRI really wants to avoid. At this point I would rather pay an attorney $5000 and fight them in court than give them another dime!

FTR, I refuse to PAY them to take my deed back so they can resell it.

So has anyone else been in a similar position? I would love to hear others experiences with an Assessment only foreclosure, fee less deed backs or prior ILX owners who, like us, didn't buy into the points system.

Thanks!


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## johnrsrq

Isn't the issue with the owners of your property including DRI's skin, if any, in the property? Is DRI just acting as the manager of the property and inventories?

In Florida, if I own a condo and become deliquent on condo fees, the association can sue to foreclose their lien. Of course, any first institutional mortgages are superior but the association can take ownership until the bank acts.

In timeshare, I think but I am not a lawyer, no legal advice, the process is less intrusive. The* taking* of the interest, I guess, is tied to the laws which governed the original deed.  I think most local court systems want less of these and, therefore, they have been relegated to timeshare legal process.

So while dri seems to be your angst in the matter, not sure if they're just do what they are supposed to be doing as manager. Please keep this thread and update it for it would be *very helpful* to understand. I am saving the thread to monitor.


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## Passepartout

When I read a report of an owner who voluntarily stops paying their MF, thereby putting the other owners at the resort on the hook to cover their share, it frosts me. I have little sympathy for someone who made no effort to sell, or give away the timeshare week. 

It should come as no surprise that interest, late charges, legal fees, collection fees and penalties are added on to what is legally owed. I'm going to propose that those possible outcomes were outlined, and signed off on when the OP made the commitment to purchase.

All this discomfort could have been avoided by 're-homing' the timeshare, giving it to the developer when DRI took it over, selling, giving it away, or even by turning it over to some fly-by-night upfront-fee outfit.

OP, you brought this all down on yourself by your lack of action. Let us know how it all works out for you. The rest of the owners will be relieved of caring for your timeshare after the foreclosure and re-sale to someone who will maintain it.

Good Luck.

Jim


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## mysticah

Passepartout said:


> When I read a report of an owner who voluntarily stops paying their MF, thereby putting the other owners at the resort on the hook to cover their share, it frosts me. I have little sympathy for someone who made no effort to sell, or give away the timeshare week.
> 
> It should come as no surprise that interest, late charges, legal fees, collection fees and penalties are added on to what is legally owed. I'm going to propose that those possible outcomes were outlined, and signed off on when the OP made the commitment to purchase.
> 
> All this discomfort could have been avoided by 're-homing' the timeshare, giving it to the developer when DRI took it over, selling, giving it away, or even by turning it over to some fly-by-night upfront-fee outfit.
> 
> OP, you brought this all down on yourself by your lack of action. Let us know how it all works out for you. The rest of the owners will be relieved of caring for your timeshare after the foreclosure and re-sale to someone who will maintain it.
> 
> Good Luck.
> 
> Jim




Wow! You are making an awful lot of assumptions here Jim. Perhaps you are unfamiliar with DRI and what happens to owners when they take over a property. A quick google on them should bring you up to date in short order. 

FTR I absolutely looked into and attempted 're-homing' and that ^^^ google search will show you what a joke that is too.

Perhaps you did not read/comprehend all that I wrote, so a bit of a recap:

We PAID for our deed in full and ALL maintenance fees for over TEN years without EVER using a single day of a single resort. So instead of being "frosted" you and all those other owners should be grateful because we helped maintain a property for THEM to use, with ZERO benefit to ourselves. 

Before you make any more assumptions, I will tell you why. My husband was Active Duty Air Force, a career military Aviator for over 25 years and we did NOT have the luxury of planning our leave well in advance, we took it when we could get it and were grateful for it!

Despite all the sales pitch 'guarantees' and promises of availability, even with short (as in less than 6 months!) notice, that was not, is not and has never been the reality with timeshare vacationing! Something we didn't discover until well after the rescission period.

Forestalling any more assumptions or aspersions-
We paid and continued to pay because WE felt morally obligated to do so, because WE signed a contract, because WE take care of ALL our obligations and WE made a critical error in judgement. Something that held so much promise, a wonderful opportunity for our family, in reality was a huge albatross, financially and otherwise.

We didn't stop paying until DRI took over. THEY changed the terms of our contract and it doesn't even almost resemble what we signed up for. And I will be damned before I saddle my children with this nightmare or continue to fund a morally ambiguous person/system that is getting rich off the backs of 'regular' people! If you want to be "frosted" at something, why don't you start there?

And finally, before you suggest we 'learn how to use our timeshare' and 'make it work for us' I will tell you the ONLY traveling I do these days is for stem cell transplants and to see specialists around the country, but thanks, a REAL vacation would be nice.

So Jim, I hope this has cleared up a few things for you. And BTW, thanks for that warm welcome to TUGS.


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## DeniseM

I just want to comment on one statement that you made:  

No one can be forced to inherit property that they don't want, so if your children don't want your timeshare:

1)  Don't leave it to them in your will

2)  Direct your heirs to file paperwork with the court refusing the timeshare inheritance.  You might want to leave detailed instructions about this with your will, and attorney.


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## mysticah

Thank you Denise. I do realize that and will do all in my power to make sure my children do as well. Sadly, though, I have heard horror stories about the tactics used on heirs and grieving family to continue the income stream to DRI.


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## DeniseM

mysticah said:


> Thank you Denise. I do realize that and will do all in my power to make sure my children do as well. Sadly, though, I have heard horror stories about the tactics used on heirs and grieving family to continue the income stream to DRI.



If your children understand and exercise their rights, horror tactics won't work - but you need to make sure of that in advance.

BTW - DRI is no different than any other management company when it comes to pursuing people who are in arrears.  That's just the way it is...


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## tschwa2

I just wanted to point out to those who accuse owners in default of passing the buck onto the other owners, that anyone who asked the HOA to accept a deedback, especially an HOA who doesn't have the means to sell the week in question, you may be following the rules and you may not be breaking a contract but you are still passing the buck to all of the other owners.  I know this is the case for small HOA's not in active sales putting off season weeks with a MF's that is higher than similar area rentals onto a newletter and listing with a local agent is not going to get those weeks into the hand of MF paying owners.

I don't know know if DRI is paying the MF's until the contracts are sold for the inventory that they are taking back or if that remains as responsibility of the other owners until it is sold.  They are going to be making a lot of profit by selling those weeks again but at least they are putting money into marketing and selling the weeks.  Hopefully they are getting it into the hands of people who will like the product and use the product and won't want to deedback or default at least in the near future.


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## johnrsrq

> *So, after 5 years of refusing to pay maintenance and club fees, it has come to this.*
> 
> While in theory a non-judicial foreclosure sounds like a great way to finally be done with DRI since they can't come after us for any shortfalls, however our concern is whether *we will take a foreclosure hit on our credit, not an option!*
> 
> Since I bought prior to Jan 1, 2009, Arizona statute has a clause that I can prevent a Non-judicial foreclosure, thereby forcing them to persue legal action, which I am sure DRI really wants to avoid. At this point I would rather pay an attorney $5000 and fight them in court than give them another dime!


It doesn't matter if you never used it. It doesn't matter you weren't happy with the elimination of "flex" benefit. You did add to the losses of other ILX members and added to the steep fee increases. ILX and the economy had alot to due with it-imo. A deed is different than a benefit ("flex).  Associations whether timeshare or otherwise have to adjust to conditions. You did sign up for that. Your credit ding from a foreclosure, whether judicial or non judicial ruling *is quite real*. You do not have control or "option" over that unless you prevail, which I personally think you would fail. Heck, I'd take the deed and combo it in higher (loyalty) for me, however,taking a deed from a foreclosure or a defaulted member brings with it joint and several liability. That is, I then owe the debt and so do you and your estate, if applicable.

Your best option would have been to work with them-imo. But maybe I'm wrong. Good luck. Please keep us posted.


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## Ty1on

johnrsrq said:


> It doesn't matter if you never used it. It doesn't matter you weren't happy with the elimination of "flex" benefit. You did add to the losses of other ILX members and added to the steep fee increases. ILX and the economy had alot to due with it-imo. A deed is different than a benefit ("flex).  Associations whether timeshare or otherwise have to adjust to conditions. You did sign up for that. Your credit ding from a foreclosure, whether judicial or non judicial ruling *is quite real*. You do not have control or "option" over that unless you prevail, which I personally think you would fail. Heck, I'd take the deed and combo it in higher (loyalty) for me, however,taking a deed from a foreclosure or a defaulted member brings with it joint and several liability. That is, I then owe the debt and so do you and your estate, if applicable.
> 
> Your best option would have been to work with them-imo. But maybe I'm wrong. Good luck. Please keep us posted.



And for 10 years she subsidized everyone else who was delinquent.

By the way, it depends on who is foreclosing.  If the developer forecloses, the developer pays the MF until they are able to re-sell it.


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## johnrsrq

The developer is long gone. The hoa would have mgmt take remedy to stop the bleeding. DRI may or may not take an interest in the interval. But the hoa has the budget /receivables
/bad debts. Even though others defaulted, the entire hoa, which you become a member in this situation and most others shoulder the losses.


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## Ty1on

johnrsrq said:


> The developer is long gone. The hoa would have mgmt take remedy to stop the bleeding. DRI may or may not take an interest in the interval. But the hoa has the budget /receivables
> /bad debts. Even though others defaulted, the entire hoa , which you become a member in this situation and most others shoulders the losses.



In this case, I mean DRI.  If DRI takes the interval back, they pay MF on it until it is resold.  If an HOA takes it back independently, then it's a hit against total MFs because HOAs don't have a sales revenue stream from which to pay MFs without it coming right out of the fund it's going into.


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## johnrsrq

Yes ok, that is if DRI is contractually obligated to do that. They may have discretion. They may only act as manager and agree to take back sooner unit, be liable for some fees. That is in their conttact with hoa.


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## mysticah

Actually the flex weeks were not a benefit or perk. They were an additional option that was negotiated and paid for and written into our contract. An upgrade, if you will, much the same as choosing leather over fabric seats in a new car, it's gonna cost ya, lol

I am not quite sure I am understanding, not trying to be argumentative, but I fail to see how I have added to the losses of other ILX members or to the steep fee increases. At the time I stopped paying, ILX members had long ceased to exist and DRI started instituting fee hikes the second they took over.

I do get that our decision may have unintended collateral damage, however, our share in Los Abrigados is minuscule in the grand scheme of things. You can also be sure that the loss of a percentage of MF fee revenue has already been factored in to the overall budget and tax reports. However, I do see your point.

Let me just say that I have nothing against the idea of timeshares and if they work for you and you have never faced the issues others have, great! More power to you! But sadly my experience is not an isolated event, there are many, many others who have had as bad or worse. 

There also seems to be the misconception that I have never even attempted to work with DRI. That could not be further from the truth. The reality is, in my experience, their system is designed to maximize shareholder profits at all costs and they don't give a rats ass about customer service. Just trying to talk to a real person is an exercise in frustration, if not outright futility. The hostility and lies in dealing with their 'customer service' is in part what led to our decision to abandon ship in the first place!

I just have to ask - why this barrage of 'shame and blame'? There are countless threads in this very forum of people requesting and actually receiving helpful  advice on how to get out of the DRI nightmare, I know, I have read every one of them. Some have not only defaulted on MFs, but on mortgages as well, others are being ADVISED to default as a way out. So, what gives??? Where is my helpful advice?


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## mysticah

A quick mention for those who are unaware - while DRI would have you believe that the HOA is 'by owners for owners' and looking out for your best interest as an owner, the reality is, more often than not, the HOA is stocked with DRI people and is nothing more than an extension of DRI and their interests.


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## Ty1on

mysticah said:


> I just have to ask - why this barrage of 'shame and blame'? There are countless threads in this very forum of people requesting and actually receiving helpful  advice on how to get out of the DRI nightmare, I know, I have read every one of them. Some have not only defaulted on MFs, but on mortgages as well, others are being ADVISED to default as a way out. So, what gives??? Where is my helpful advice?



I personally don't have a problem with your decision.  From everything I've seen, DRI seems to be the biggest "bully" among timeshare systems.  Maybe Wastegate, too, but I've read less about them.  

In fairness, though, most of those that have been advised to default out are so advised because they are in critical financial straits and the developer won't work with them.

And you're right about the HOA board.  There has been some discussion about that issue on the board before.  The problems are that the developer often owns multiple intervals at the resort, and that given the wide geographic spread, trying to get a majority together, even through proxy, to combat the developer-dominated boards is virtually impossible.  This does seem like it would create a conflict of interest where DRI employees hold fiduciary duty to protect the interests of owners.

Thanks to you and your hubby for your service to us and our way of life.


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## mysticah

Ty1on said:


> I personally don't have a problem with your decision.  From everything I've seen, DRI seems to be the biggest "bully" among timeshare systems.  Maybe Wastegate, too, but I've read less about them.
> 
> In fairness, though, most of those that have been advised to default out are so advised because they are in critical financial straits and the developer won't work with them.
> 
> And you're right about the HOA board.  There has been some discussion about that issue on the board before.  The problems are that the developer often owns multiple intervals at the resort, and that given the wide geographic spread, trying to get a majority together, even through proxy, to combat the developer-dominated boards is virtually impossible.  This does seem like it would create a conflict of interest where DRI employees hold fiduciary duty to protect the interests of owners.
> 
> Thanks to you and your hubby for your service to us and our way of life.




Thank you for your reply, I truly appreciate it. 

In all honesty, we are not in dire financial straights at this moment, but are looking at and planning for the future. As I mentioned, I have health issues that are ongoing and while I am eternally grateful for military health coverage, it does not cover stem cell transplants (considered experimental and the ONLY reason I am still alive) or other treatments for rare, 'orphan' diseases like mine.

So I guess at the end of the day, we have to do what is right for us, even if it is not popular with others here.


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## artringwald

I don't know if it's true for Los Abrigados, but for our home resort, DRI makes the MF payments to the HOA for all units that are in default. They're not just being nice, it allows them to rent the units, or make them available to members with points in that collection or members of the Club. If it is foreclosed, DRI gets ownership for nothing more than the cost of the foreclosure.


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## johnrsrq

mysticah said:


> Thank you for your reply, I truly appreciate it.
> 
> In all honesty, we are not in dire financial straights at this moment, but are looking at and planning for the future. As I mentioned, I have health issues that are ongoing and while I am eternally grateful for military health coverage, it does not cover stem cell transplants (considered experimental and the ONLY reason I am still alive) or other treatments for rare, 'orphan' diseases like mine.
> 
> So I guess at the end of the day, we have to do what is right for us, even if it is not popular with others here.



I wish you the best. Sincere thanks for your family's service to our still great nation. Welcome to Tugg (from a relatively newer, non yes person). Yes, of course, do what is best (right) for yourselves. And yes, I have managed my timeshare stuff reluctantly over the years and I have timeshare experiences from gathering family members (and clients) during sickness and funerals. I never would have thought.

However, I'm not looking to open a huge debate. It seems you posed a question and made statements and if, someone does not agree or offers thoughts contrary, it refers back to the frustration and do a "google search".
The masses must be right.

Multiply your ILX interval by 10,000 non payers for 5 years. The consequence to the associations have been severe. *The primary concern you have is your credit and the potential hit may take from a foreclosure*.* I am interested to know what happens as well many others who are similarly planning*.

To me, the real culprits are those that are selling very high $$ vacation intervals/points/systems without regard to the devastating hit (financially and emotionally) to the buyer and his/her family. Just in it for the high buck. Very much like cigarette company salesmen/promoters. But some of them may have value in helping others.

Best of luck to you and your family.


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## johnrsrq

artringwald said:


> I don't know if it's true for Los Abrigados, but for our home resort, DRI makes the MF payments to the HOA for all units that are in default. They're not just being nice, it allows them to rent the units, or make them available to members with points in that collection or members of the Club. If it is foreclosed, DRI gets ownership for nothing more than the cost of the foreclosure.


 
P@P, a very high value property. DRI should do that as fast as possible to keep your fees down. However, deeded members like yourself can try to sell the  timeshare interval (deed) to anyone based on what someone's willing to pay. And with oil prices plummeting, airfares *might* get more reasonable. DRI is in an enviable position of managing 24/7 and willing to take it on thereby aiding a continuous smooth operation.


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## BocaBoy

I find it surprising that so many people here are so quick to condemn the OP without even asking for details of how DRI violated the terms of her contract.  It was not really clearly explained in detail. To me, that is the critical issue.  If the terms of the contracted ownership in her deed were changed without her consent then she has every right to do what she is doing.  If the deed was not violated, however, that is a different story.


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## Noonga

*Same boat...*

I'm totally new to the boards, but am in the same situation. It started 16 years ago when we bought from ILX, and bought up to the clubhouse level. We enjoyed yearly visits to Kohl, Los Abrigados, a place in Tucson, etc...   but then Diamond resorts came in and totally screwed us up big time.

We bought the time share to hold and pass down to our kids. But, when ILX was taken over we lost half our benefits AND our yearly fees went up.  We had to goto a plan that only allowed us to use it every other year.  We were severely strapped for cash because of the economy so when we tried to figure out what to do with our contract we were told to pay over 6k more.  Well, I simply could not.

I am told to pay over 1000 a year for something I can only use every other year.   Um, thats paying 2k for a week of time????  I have a Gold membership, frequency of Every Other Ear (Biennial) Even Years, and a occ period of Seven days including one weekend.

I was really sad that it came to this. The new company basically screwed us over. If I had money, then *maybe*, but, I don't.

Today I get the Notice of Delinquent Assessment. I call them and I have 1 of three options:
A) Pay over 4k in 30 days to keep it.
B) Pay them 500 and call it a wash
C) Let it forclose.

The first option simply isn't doable: I am trying hard just to keep my bills paid, and we have not had a good vacation in 3 years.
The last 2 options only get rid of the property and I get notta/nothing, other than the loss of another $500, or bad credit.

I'm frustrated, furious, sad...  the girls (my kids who are now older) LOVE going to Los Abrigados.  We were talking about it the other night about how we always used to eat fruit from the fruit stand out near the fountain. About how they would walk up and down the creek, or swim for hours in the pools. The trails, the nice "apartment" they called it that we built up to.

I have thousands into this thing and now I have to let it go because DR does not give a shit about people who really do treasure what they have. They saw a way to get tons more out of people, and those like me got the shaft.

I have no clue what it is worth, they would not tell me over the phone. I have no clue what to do. I would love to get SOMETHING out of this, but I doubt I will because of how they destroyed the value of my timeshare.

I believe I paid close to 16k for all of this, maybe 19, I would have to look at my paperwork whenever I can find it.

I'm seriously depressed. Do I have any options at all? Anyone with any advise in layman's terms because I don't understand all this stuff about what I read above. I'm just a simple man who had something nice to give to his kids but the bully on the block took it away.

Mike.


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## Passepartout

Sorry for your difficulties. DRI SUX! Not the resorts, but their business practices. Buying troubled resorts and jacking up MFs on owners is a pi$$poor way to expand their business.

But clearly, your best option is.....drum roll..... option B. Pay them the $500 and be done with it. It is worth a few hundred at best anyway on today's market.

If timeshare has not turned you off entirely, a nice usable sub $1000 with annual use and sub $1k MFs (honestly, MFs have gone up across the board that renting is very viable with no buy in)

Welcome to TUG. We truly feel for you and others in the same leaky boat. Pay them their blood money and kiss DRI goodbye.

Jim


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## mysticah

Mike,
I am very sorry you are in this position and your story makes me incredibly sad. 

I am glad you have chosen to share it here, perhaps if more of us came forward about what DRI has done to the people that bought from ILX, I wouldn't have to tell people to 'Google' it, which, in this group, seems to be tantamount to pulling lies out of my ass. Maybe then we could get some helpful input and not the derision and harsh judgements I have been subjected to for reaching out.

The fact of the matter is DRI has been decimating the value of our timeshares while at the same time charging us more and more every year, far more than the MF projections that our purchases were based on. 

In addition to that, they are forcing club fees on owners with threats of collections and foreclosures, despite the fact that we have no legal obligation to pay - it was NEVER part of our contract. 

And finally, they use lies, trickery and strong arm tactics to gain possession of our deeds, at the very least making us PAY them to get out of the nightmare, so they can turn around and sell them at a HUGE profit! Trust me, my deed is worth much, much more than the delinquent MF fees and fraudulent club dues combined. All in all it is a win/win for DRI. 

Mike, if you purchased prior to '09 there should be a form you can send back to prevent them from proceeding with a Non-judicial foreclosure which will force them to engage in a lengthy and costly judicial foreclosure. Whether that will work out better or worse for either of us, I really couldnt say at this point, but that is the direction I am leaning. 

I will be in contact with a real estate attorney early next week who will either confirm or disavow my suspicions that what DRI is attempting to do could very well backfire on them. 

In order for them to even start a judicial foreclosure, they must first establish our responsibility for the debt, which I assume would require them to produce our original, signed contract from over 15 years ago. A contract that was entered into with a different entity entirely. That means impeccable record keeping by ILX for 10 years, all through the transfer of ownership to DRI and the subsequent 5 years. 

So far they have already failed to satisfy SIMPLE clerical requirements for any foreclosure, judicial or otherwise.

 If all of that weren't enough, our court system really frowns on 'Unjust Enrichment' in all its forms. IMO DRI is the personification of unjust enrichment!

I will keep you posted.


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## TUGBrian

sounds like you just have to decide if the $500 is worth maintaining your credit...or if you simply dont care as either of the last 2 solutions divest you of your ownership.

sorry its been such a bumpy road for you


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## gerena

OH MY.  So agree with the poster regarding the ruthless and unscrupulous tactics of DRI.  We were with ILX, too.  Don't even have time to go in with it all, except that we agree.  Had to do a recession letter with them 2 years ago as they tried to suck us in to new stuff with The Club.  Two weeks ago they confronted us at the Indiana State Fair where they had a booth.  I told them that we had had a very bad experience so far with Diamond.  They just said they were sorry!!!!  We walked on--they didn't even say anything to the people who were walking behind us as they heard this brief discussion.  Probably figured it was useless!!!  
We were fine with ILX, but everything above is true about DRI.


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## humor_monger

*ILX did go bankrupt*

I'm not a fan of DRI, but they took over most of ILX debts for a sum of $100k deposit and assumption of $34.5 million in debts. If the money coming in to ILX wasn't sufficient to avoid bankruptcy, it stands to reason more money needed  to come in. That said, DRI is my most expensive property to own.


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## skimeup

*On a different TUG Forum there is a discussion about DRI taking back units*

I too had two units, a one bedroom Sedona Vacation Club at Los Abrigados and a two bedroom based  at Los Ab in the ILX club that allowed one to stay at 12 different ILX properties.  When DRI took over, they raised the rates by about $150 per unit and also "gave"  a discounted membership in the DRI "Club" which would be good for some of the national and international units owned or partially controlled by DRI but not all.  This discounted membership would cost about $250 per year for each unit.  So it was not a real giveaway AND   -- you got it until and unless you read the fine print that said you had 30 or so days to opt out.   Of course I opted out.  Still they converted the two bedroom into a points program which I believe I could still use at the 12 ILX properties - not sure about that.  I used it once and then sold it (luckily for me).   Under ILX, you could cancel and change dates until three days prior to arrival but under the points system, you have to change at least 30 days out or lost some or all of your points.  I don't recall just how awful it was because I sold it quickly.  I have been trying to sell the one bedroom but it does have the advantage of keeping the ability to make changes until three days out but I can't use any of the other properties.   I have had it listed for $1 for about four years so don't get your hopes up too high about selling it.       That said, there is another DRI forum that tells you how to deed back your week to DRI so they can sell it for a lot of money.  DRI had been taking back deeds through August but I have mine rented in October so I can't start the process until then.  And I think I am too old to worry about my credit report so if I can't deed it back, I'll stop paying.  Not for one minute do I worry about other people having to cover my MF.  DRI is renting out all those units for even more per night than they are charging for MF so DRI is far from hurting.  http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/images/smilies/cheer.gif


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## Mongoose

*DRI Deeded Back*

I had a 3BR lockout odd years at Mystic Dunes for 10 years.  Fees doubled under DRI.  While I think they do a great job maintaining their facilities, they have terrible business practices.  I bought my unit on Ebay and loved it and the flexibility.  The renovated rooms were great.  However, when I saw the chance I jumped to deed back.  Quite simply, I don't trust them and who knows how high they will raise the MFs.   They sent me the paperwork, which I returned with the check for $250 and they have now cashed it.  Just waiting for final clearance.  They could really be a great hospitality company if they would change the culture towards customer service and get away from the endless attempts to upsell.


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## mysticah

skimeup said:


> I too had two units, a one bedroom Sedona Vacation Club at Los Abrigados and a two bedroom based  at Los Ab in the ILX club that allowed one to stay at 12 different ILX properties.  When DRI took over, they raised the rates by about $150 per unit and also "gave"  a discounted membership in the DRI "Club" which would be good for some of the national and international units owned or partially controlled by DRI but not all.  This discounted membership would cost about $250 per year for each unit.  So it was not a real giveaway AND   -- you got it until and unless you read the fine print that said you had 30 or so days to opt out.   Of course I opted out.  Still they converted the two bedroom into a points program which I believe I could still use at the 12 ILX properties - not sure about that.  I used it once and then sold it (luckily for me).   Under ILX, you could cancel and change dates until three days prior to arrival but under the points system, you have to change at least 30 days out or lost some or all of your points.  I don't recall just how awful it was because I sold it quickly.  I have been trying to sell the one bedroom but it does have the advantage of keeping the ability to make changes until three days out but I can't use any of the other properties.   I have had it listed for $1 for about four years so don't get your hopes up too high about selling it.       That said, there is another DRI forum that tells you how to deed back your week to DRI so they can sell it for a lot of money.  DRI had been taking back deeds through August but I have mine rented in October so I can't start the process until then.  And I think I am too old to worry about my credit report so if I can't deed it
> back, I'll stop paying.  Not for one minute do I worry about other people having to cover my MF.  DRI is renting out all those units for even more per night than they are charging for MF so DRI is far from hurting.  http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/images/smilies/cheer.gif



Thank you for sharing your experience with ILX/DRI. It's nice to see others finding their way here and confirming what I have been saying. Hopefully more will come and we can compare notes.

I just don't see how they get away with breaching the contracts of all these ILX owners and then turn around and use the very same contract to enforce (IMO extort) MFs and if you refuse, they foreclose (steal) your property. I am really surprised that no one has stood up to DRI or started a class action. Although if someone has successfully sued them, DRI probably has an ironclad nondisclosure in place so we wouldn't hear about it. 

It would be great if you could direct me to the alternate DRI forum you referenced. I would love to see what others are saying and doing.
Thanks!


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## johnrsrq

Mongoose said:


> *I had a 3BR lockout odd years at Mystic Dunes for 10 years.  Fees doubled under DRI*.  While I think they do a great job maintaining their facilities, they have terrible business practices.  I bought my unit on Ebay and loved it and the flexibility.  The renovated rooms were great.  However, when I saw the chance I jumped to deed back.  Quite simply, I don't trust them and who knows how high they will raise the MFs.   They sent me the paperwork, which I returned with the check for $250 and they have now cashed it.  Just waiting for final clearance.  They could really be a great hospitality company if they would change the culture towards customer service and get away from the endless attempts to upsell.



I use Mystic Dunes all the time. Terrific resort. DRI bought the Tempus resorts in bankruptcy. It was a bad experience for you and many others. If I owned a resort and they took it out of bankruptcy, I would agonize as well.

I think they all try to hard sell. I ignore them. I'm glad they took yours back. Good luck.


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## gsagan02

*DRI buyback*

We sent our request to opt out of Diamond Resorts Sat Sept 5. Got a confirmation number on Sept 5. Got a response Sept 9 saying they will buy back our time-share. Information will be sent out. We pay $1700 a year in maintenance fees. We have points.


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## mysticah

gsagan02 said:


> We sent our request to opt out of Diamond Resorts Sat Sept 5. Got a confirmation number on Sept 5. Got a response Sept 9 saying they will buy back our time-share. Information will be sent out. We pay $1700 a year in maintenance fees. We have points.



Would you mind providing more detail on this? I am not sure what you mean by 'opt out'.

I am still waiting for my attorney to get back to me, he was out of town. Since we have had no clear direction, we will be sending in the form to stop the non-judicial foreclosure and go from there.


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## nuwermj

Diamond is currently taking back points from owners who want to surrender them (or give them back). There is a fee of $250 per contract. The owner must be up-to-date with all fees (but Diamond may overlook that in some cases). Details are posted here:

http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=224859


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## PamMo

We bought a Los Abrigados 1BR Jerome unit for $1 on eBay many years ago, and absolutely loved it. MF's were low, and we always looked forward to our hiking trips in Red Rock country. Unfortunately, ILX/Premier Vacation Club  financed a huge expansion project right before the economy tanked, and they couldn't recover from the debt. We could definitely see the resort was going downhill. After ILX went into bankruptcy, Diamond bought them out and got control of the board. Owners were not forced to join The Club (we never did), but MF's skyrocketed with Diamond updating the resorts and tacking on additional management fees. It was VERY confusing to figure out the fine print. Frustratingly, I was also getting whacked by higher MF's at other timeshares we own, as owners seemed to be defaulting on payments en masse.

Long story short, we were very unhappy with the high MF's for a medium quality 1BR, but kept using our timeshare because nobody else wanted it, and it had _some_ value (we got some wonderful trades - even a few times back to Sedona into a 2BR in Hyatt's Pinon Pointe). I was thrilled to read a TUG thread about Diamond taking deedbacks, and thought it was well worth the $250 to be rid of the stress over what to do with this timeshare albatross for the future.

Mysticha, I personally don't think it would be worth the time, money, and stress to hire an attorney to take DRI to court. Frankly, the timeshare, like many, isn't worth anything. If you could reach a settlement like Noonga was offered ($500 and it they would take it back), you may find some peace in getting this over with. It might be painful, but at least you could move on. It's soul sucking to have things like this hanging over your head.

Best of luck to you. Thank you and your husband for your service (I know the whole family serves when someone is in the military).


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## azfamily

I hope that ILX (now DRI) people who read these posts, take all the opinions posted here with a grain of salt.  

There are a lot of opinions here but too many facts are being omitted.  

I'm not saying that people shouldn't be disappointed by some of the changes that occurred when DRI took over, but be honest with yourselves about the circumstances.  

Ultimately DRI did "save" the ILX owners from having NOTHING (due to ILX bankruptcy).  

DRI does cost more, because DRI is a more expansive and expensive/quality timeshare than ILX was. 

I too was disappointed by the fee increases.  Yet I factually understand them.  

If anyone has questions about the DRI takeover, feel free to ask and I will be happy to give an unbiased, non opinionated account of what changed and why.  

It seems that a lot of the posts here are simply opinions and not the actual what and why of what happened.

If you are just someone that does not want your timeshare, this is a bad place to be under DRI.  If you want to use your timeshare, DRI actually has a pretty decent infrastructure.  


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## nuwermj

azfamily said:


> Ultimately DRI did "save" the ILX owners from having NOTHING (due to ILX bankruptcy).
> 
> DRI does cost more, because DRI is a more expansive and expensive/quality timeshare than ILX was.
> 
> I too was disappointed by the fee increases.  Yet I factually understand them.



I have some sympathy with your comment. And I think there’s no question you are correct about the maintenance fees issue.

But, why does DRI need to engage in sales tactics that use intimidation and threats to strong arm Premiere owners into buying Diamond points?

After the purchase of ILX, Diamond could have taken over ILX's resort management contracts and made money there (which they did). And Diamond could have taken over management of the Premiere Vacation Club and made money there (which they did -- the Premiere Club Connection is Diamonds substitute for the PVC
[*]). And if Diamond had made a true commitment to the Premiere Club Connection and it members, then the higher maintenance fees and club fees might have been justified, as you maintain. Basically the ILX system (which people had already paid for) would be reorganized and would continue under new management. 

But Diamond buys bankrupt timeshare systems not to acquire owners that need more efficient management, it does so in order to get customers for its sales force. 

Why did Diamond create the Premiere Club Connection? They could have enrolled Premiere owners in the Diamond Club. After all, the same computer system is used for both programs and the same resorts are available to members of both clubs. The reason I think is clear. It was a marketing strategy intended to squeeze money (beyond MF and Club fees) out of Premiere owners. 

Thus, over the last few years, Diamond has been moving intervals out of the Premiere trust and into a Diamond trust. This leaves Premiere owners and the PCC with increasing fewer and fewer weeks to reserve. And now I am told by former ILX owners that Diamond is terminating the Premiere Club Connection, which further squeezes owners of Premiere points.

Diamond’s marketing strategy is to put Premiere owners between a rock and a hard place, thereby pressuring them to spend more money on the purchase of Diamond points. Pay big money for a conversion to Diamond points or stay with Premiere points and watch your vacation options shrink smaller and smaller (all while having no way to get out of the obligation to pay MF and Club fees). It is these actions by DRI that seem most unjust to me.


[*] In my opinion, Diamond could have given Premiere owners an opt-in choice for the new Club rather than automatically enrolling all Premiere owners and give them a short window to opt-out. But that is a side issue.


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## VegasBella

mysticah said:


> At this point I would rather pay an attorney $5000 and fight them in court than give them another dime!



It sounds like you need to sort out your priorities. Which matters more to you? Taking a hit on your credit or paying DRI? 

Also, consider other options: 
- selling or giving away your ownership (would probably involve some fees on your end)
- negotiating a new deal for something you will use with DRI 
- negotiating a deed-back


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## azfamily

NUWERMJ: Your assessment of what happened is pretty accurate.

However, I don't think DRI should take over defunct timeshares and just "give them the farm".  If they did this, then there would be even more limited availability for those that own DRI. Some of the main complaints of DRI owners are:

1) Limited availability 
2) Bad sales practices (lies)

When DRI takes over a timeshare they basically generate a new club for those members. 

This club seemingly gives members 5 reasonable options:

1) travel to only your old home resorts (with higher fees, more limited availability).

2) join a new select club that gives members access to their original resorts and a small handful of DRI properties (for an additional annual charge).  With the ILX takeover, people were not automatically put into this new club, it was optional.

3) Eventually buy in DRI (which kind of stinks because some people are still paying their original purchase or probably finally paid off their original resort purchase).

4) Constantly ignore the DRI booking and just use your points to exchange each year (like with Interval International). This too has added fees, but really gives you options and the ability to bulk multiple years points into 1 booking.

5) Somehow give or walk away. 

Personally, I was one of these frustrated members just like in this post here, that was so upset with how Diamond worked. 

I was a #2 above that moved to #3.

Finally I did purchase into their Club and now I have access to 300+ resorts.

I know I had to pay for this option, but I feel it was better alternative to paying every year to effectively "staycation".

The DRI properties I have stayed at are all nicer than the old ILX ones were.  And now DRI is upgrading those too.  

The circumstances stink, but don't totally blame DRI.  The frustration should be with ILX for going under.




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## azfamily

For those of you that own Diamond, there is another good resource/forum on Facebook at "Diamond Resorts Members".


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## tahoeJoe

Noonga said:


> I'm seriously depressed. Do I have any options at all? Anyone with any advise in layman's terms because I don't understand all this stuff about what I read above. I'm just a simple man who had something nice to give to his kids but the bully on the block took it away.
> 
> Mike.



Mysticah and Mike, I am so sorry to hear of your experiences with DRI. And, Mysticah, I am sorry you were given such harsh initial criticism when you came to TUG for advice. TUGGERS may not always agree with the OP, but they usually provide non-judgmental advice, which is what I wish you had initially received. 

If it is any consolation, I don't own DRI and now plan to avoid them at all costs. They sound horrible. I am staying at a DRI property in Lake Tahoe in a few weeks and will tell them to take any invitations to tour and shove them on behalf of both your negative experiences.

Mike, I am so sorry you have been put in this position. It sounds like Mysticah has the resources to consult an attorney and is probably correct that she can win if she goes for a judicial foreclosure, but there is always the risk of being liable for DRI's legal fees of one looses, so beware. Paying the $500 and getting rid of DRI once and for all may be the best option for you. 

Again, I am so sorry you both have been so shabbily treated by DRI. I wish you both success and hope that you can keep your past good memories of vacationing with ILX, even as you dump DRI.


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## azfamily

Everyone, the post I made earlier today, showing you the 5 options you have, should be clear as day. 

If you have questions about what I wrote, please let me know.  I would be happy to expand.

If you have not paid your annual obligations, and now want to rid yourself of your timeshare, then I assume you want to exercise option 5.

I don't know what your options are here.  I guess seek legal assistance, but I am not sure what the outcome would be.  I am also not sure that this is your cheapest option.  You may end up paying more with attorney fees.

Regarding your post Mike, I know you are frustrated, but DRI's takeover of ILX was not a "bully taking something away".    

When DRI took over, you had NOTHING.  

The ILX you bought was OVER.  

ILX failed and you would have had nothing without DRI's bailout.

Did the contract you originally bought change, yes.  But without DRI taking over it was dead.  If you could not, or chose not to pay the fees once the takeover occurred, that's not DRI's fault.  You need you accept some responsibility for where you are now.  

Some people posted harsh thoughts on this, but they are right.  
Maybe they could have said it softer, but YOU stopped paying on you obligation.  
Again, that part is not DRI's fault.  
How can you blame DRI for your back bills?
Did you think not paying your annual fees was going to end well?

DRI itself has a decent program and great resorts.  

The bad part of the ILX takeover is that DRI did not give full access to "their" system.  
So ILX owners can only have the full DRI package if they choose to purchase from DRI.

If one chooses not to buy into DRI, the old ILX owners still have access to everything they had under the old ILX program before the takeover. The cost has gone up, however.  But you still have access to the same resorts you had when ILX was the owner.

You also have the option to bank your points into an exchange company and go anywhere in the world. 



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## bogey21

I think you have a real beef with DRI based on the provisions you say were in your contract with ILX.  However, the bankruptcy of ILX and anything you paid to DRI subsequent to the bankruptcy really muddies the waters.  My guess is that the cost of prevailing in a legal battle with DRI would be both uncertain and costly.  IMO if you can settle things with a one time payment of $250 or $500, it would be well worth doing so.

George


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## nuwermj

azfamily said:


> ... I don't think DRI should take over defunct timeshares and just "give them the farm".  If they did this, then there would be even more limited availability for those that own DRI.


[FONT=&quot][/FONT]
This is a misrepresentation of what I wrote. Any member added to the Diamond Club would necessarily correspond to added intervals.


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## azfamily

What?


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## nuwermj

There would not have been "more limited availability" had Diamond enrolled IXL owners into the Diamond Club, because corresponding deeds would also be added. Nothing would have been given away.


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## azfamily

Not true.  

The existing Diamond members that own full Diamond Club benefits immediately had access to the ILX properties.  

However, the ILX members did not have full access to Diamond's 300 resorts.  

If Diamond just "gave away the farm" and immediately gave all ILX members full benefits, then thousands of new owners could use, say Hawaii. 

I'm not sure, actually I'm certain, that would be fair to the existing Diamond members.

I finally upgraded to Diamond so I can use 300 resorts.  I'd be upset if Diamond instantly added thousands of contracts into the pool I can book through.  It's not fair to dilute those waters.

The people that remain "just" ILX members still have access to their old properties.

When I bought at Los Abrigados many years ago, it did not have 10 Hawaii properties.  So Diamond should not be expected to give that to the ILX members.  ILX members never paid the price for access to 300 resorts.

You can convert to Diamond to buy that right.  You can also just use an exchange company in lieu of buying Diamond, if you wish.

To each their own preference.


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## azfamily

People that remain ILX have a few basic options (for travel):

1) Just book the available resorts that Diamond gave you (which includes all the old ILX properties still. This is what you originally bought, so how upset can you be? Diamond retained what you originally bought).

In theory, the people that remain ILX only will see limited availability at their resorts since ALL other Diamond members can book here too.  
However, let's face it, Diamond members have 300 options and Payson, AZ and Pinetop, AZ and Sedona, AZ, and Indiana, and etc... are all nice places, but not super high demand.

There WERE a few disappointing rule changes though, for example, the Carriage House in Vegas now requires a full 7 night stay, which ILX did not require.

2) Diamond also offered the ILX members the option to join Club Select which added about 20 of the Diamond resorts to the ILX members (for an added cost, a collection cost. Diamond members pay this too).

3) Use an exchange company and travel worldwide (with added exchange fees).  

Diamond does give you Interval International membership already though, included with your maintenance fees. 

I will concede, the real/main disappointment is this:

The maintenance fees under Diamond are more expensive. 
Yet people keep posting that the fees are skyrocketing every year.  

That's not true.  

The fees shot up once, initially when Diamond took over.  

This is because the now ILX members are paying the same point cost that Diamond members pay.  

It was not collusion, not a bully being mean, it was what it was, logistics.

Diamond points members pay a certain per point cost, and based on the number of points that people were converted to (which was fair), determined the annual maintenance fees.

Now, if I wanted to travel to Payson, AZ, I'm not sure that my annual maintenance fee justifies a week in Payson, AZ.  If you stay ILX, and only travel to the old ILX resorts, you are probably paying as much, if not more than you would pay if you booked the same resort on a travel website.  

This is why I upgraded to Diamond.  

Yes I had to "buy again", but now I can book real vacations any really nice places and I feel that I'm getting my money's worth.

I can go to Europe, Hawaii, California, Nevada, Florida, Carolinas, Virginia, Texas, Asia etc...






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## T_R_Oglodyte

azfamily said:


> 1) Just book the available resorts that Diamond gave you (which includes all the old ILX properties still. This is what you originally bought, so how upset can you be? Diamond retained what you originally bought).
> 
> In theory, the people that remain ILX only will see limited availability at their resorts since ALL other Diamond members can book here too.
> However, let's face it, Diamond members have 300 options and Payson, AZ and Pinetop, AZ and Sedona, AZ, and Indiana, and etc... are all nice places, but not super high demand.


Just a bit of explanation as to how inventory control works when Diamond acquires a resort system.  

Prior to Diamond coming in, the rights of use are granted to owners in accordance with the timeshare program rules.  After Diamond takes over, *that doesn't change*.

So now let's move on to how the Club fits into the scheme.  When someone joins the Club that person's reservation rights transfer to the Club.  So if no ILX member were to join the Club there would be no ILX availability in the Club, unless DRI chooses to make some of the usage rights associated with units it owns into the Club reservation pool.  Note that is simply an ownership decision by DRI; DRI can (and will) also rent out inventory it owns. DRI will certainly run a sales program to try to get owners to join the Club, as well as bring in new owners.  To the extent DRI succeeds in those efforts there will be increased availability for ILX in the Club. 

At the reservations level at the resort, the Club access to inventory is the same as for any other owner.  The Club becomes an owner with X number of points in the ownership, and the Club will make reservations in accordance with the ownership rights it possesses.    

The usual pattern is that if Club ownership constitutes, say 25% of the total points, then on a rolling weekly basis, the Club will access 25% of the inventory, and the other 75% will remain open for usage by non-Club members.


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## gerena

azfamily said:


> People that remain ILX have a few basic options (for travel):
> 
> 
> Diamond does give you Interval International membership already though, included with your maintenance fees.
> 
> 
> I was not aware of this?  I have been paying Interval Membership separately.  Yuck.  Can you tell me where this information is.  I thought I had read everything.  We are not Club members--we opted out. Just have the Diamond membership, I guess.  We trade the weeks through II.


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## azfamily

Hmmmm....

We were ILX and paid the extra (originally $170 per year, now $220 per year) to join the "Club Select".

If you opted not to join the Club, maybe you don't get II included.

I suppose that I assume everybody received this. Since I never saw/don't have the documents for people that opted not to join the club, there is no way that I can verify.

I guess call diamond just to confirm you're not getting a double membership.  However I have to assume you are correct that your membership does not include it.


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## post-it

gerena said:


> azfamily said:
> 
> 
> 
> People that remain ILX have a few basic options (for travel):
> 
> 
> Diamond does give you Interval International membership already though, included with your maintenance fees.
> 
> 
> I was not aware of this?  I have been paying Interval Membership separately.  Yuck.  Can you tell me where this information is.  I thought I had read everything.  We are not Club members--we opted out. Just have the Diamond membership, I guess.  We trade the weeks through II.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Interval is in your Club membership fees.
Click to expand...


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## azfamily

GERENA is saying that when Diamond took over ILX they did not join a club, so they are not getting II included.

I have not heard of that either, but it might be possible.


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## T_R_Oglodyte

azfamily said:


> GERENA is saying that when Diamond took over ILX they did not join a club, so they are not getting II included.
> 
> I have not heard of that either, but it might be possible.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



II only comes if you are part of the Club.  If you are not part of the Club you can join any exchange company that will accept the unit for deposit. 

That's how Diamond resorts wind up being available from other exchange companies.


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## friedshrimp

Passepartout said:


> Sorry for your difficulties. DRI SUX! Not the resorts, but their business practices. Buying troubled resorts and jacking up MFs on owners is a pi$$poor way to expand their business.
> 
> But clearly, your best option is.....drum roll..... option B. Pay them the $500 and be done with it. It is worth a few hundred at best anyway on today's market.
> 
> If timeshare has not turned you off entirely, a nice usable sub $1000 with annual use and sub $1k MFs (honestly, MFs have gone up across the board that renting is very viable with no buy in)
> 
> Welcome to TUG. We truly feel for you and others in the same leaky boat. Pay them their blood money and kiss DRI goodbye.
> 
> Jim



You do understand the reason most resorts get into trouble to begin with is by having undervalued MFs?


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## friedshrimp

azfamily said:


> I hope that ILX (now DRI) people who read these posts, take all the opinions posted here with a grain of salt.
> 
> There are a lot of opinions here but too many facts are being omitted.
> 
> I'm not saying that people shouldn't be disappointed by some of the changes that occurred when DRI took over, but be honest with yourselves about the circumstances.
> 
> Ultimately DRI did "save" the ILX owners from having NOTHING (due to ILX bankruptcy).
> 
> DRI does cost more, because DRI is a more expansive and expensive/quality timeshare than ILX was.
> 
> I too was disappointed by the fee increases.  Yet I factually understand them.
> 
> If anyone has questions about the DRI takeover, feel free to ask and I will be happy to give an unbiased, non opinionated account of what changed and why.
> 
> It seems that a lot of the posts here are simply opinions and not the actual what and why of what happened.
> 
> If you are just someone that does not want your timeshare, this is a bad place to be under DRI.  If you want to use your timeshare, DRI actually has a pretty decent infrastructure.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



Agreed. And DRI has never forced anyone to join the Club or convert to points when they take over a company (I used to be with Sunterra). Yes, they can raise the MFs quite a bit but if the higher MFs had been on place all along by the original company, those companies may not have gone into bankruptcy to begin with (IMO, the super low MFs is what caused the trouble).


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## friedshrimp

gerena said:


> azfamily said:
> 
> 
> 
> People that remain ILX have a few basic options (for travel):
> 
> 
> Diamond does give you Interval International membership already though, included with your maintenance fees.
> 
> 
> I was not aware of this?  I have been paying Interval Membership separately.  Yuck.  Can you tell me where this information is.  I thought I had read everything.  We are not Club members--we opted out. Just have the Diamond membership, I guess.  We trade the weeks through II.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Gold II membership is for members of the Club only (and is paid by the additional $250 Club membership fee). If you are not a member of the Club you must maintain your own RCI or II membership.
Click to expand...


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## nuwermj

Members of Premiere Club Connection, Monarch Club Connection, and Florida Club Connection are not members of THE Club. Diamond does provide them II accounts.


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## friedshrimp

nuwermj said:


> Members of Premiere Club Connection, Monarch Club Connection, and Florida Club Connection are not members of THE Club. Diamond does provide them II accounts.



Sorry but I disagree. Those are simply other collections within DRI the same as the US, Hawaii, California, and Europe collections. Some members in the collections you mentioned most certainly are in THE Club otherwise no one in DRI could make reservations into those resorts.


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## nuwermj

They are also Clubs similar to THE Club, but not THE Club. Here are the member guides for each.

Premiere Club Connection Booklet
https://cmstest.diamondresorts.com/sites/default/files/PCC_2014_2015_BOOK_0.pdf

Monarch Grand Vacations Club Connection Booklet
https://cmstest.diamondresorts.com/...ch-Grand-Vacation-Club-Collection-Booklet.pdf

Florida Club Connection Booklet
https://cmstest.diamondresorts.com/sites/default/files/florida-club-connection-booklet-test.pdf


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## friedshrimp

nuwermj said:


> They are also Clubs similar to THE Club, but not THE Club. Here are the member guides for each.
> 
> Premiere Club Connection Booklet
> https://cmstest.diamondresorts.com/sites/default/files/PCC_2014_2015_BOOK_0.pdf
> 
> Monarch Grand Vacations Club Connection Booklet
> https://cmstest.diamondresorts.com/...ch-Grand-Vacation-Club-Collection-Booklet.pdf
> 
> Florida Club Connection Booklet
> https://cmstest.diamondresorts.com/sites/default/files/florida-club-connection-booklet-test.pdf



Interesting. What I find unusual (I only looked at the first one) is that many (if not most) of those resorts are in the US Collection (in fact, my home resort of Powhatan Plantation is listed and that was a Sunterra Resort that had nothing to do with Premiere). So while members who moved to that collection/club may not be full DRI members with access to all DRI Club inventory, I'll bet dollars to donuts that pay a Club fee to that collection which includes the II membership. Versus say a fixed week owner at one of the old Premiere resorts that doesn't belong to one of the new mini-clubs within DRI.


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## nuwermj

friedshrimp said:


> ... So while members who moved to that collection/club may not be full DRI members with access to all DRI Club inventory,



Owners do not move into these collections or clubs. Diamond acquired existing clubs and replaced them with these Club Connection programs. Diamond does not sell VOI in these Clubs. They try to sell Club Connection members full THE Club membership. When these sales (or conversions) are  successful, intervals backing the ownership are moved from the Premiere/Monarch/Florida collection to the US or Hawaii or Latin American Collection.     




friedshrimp said:


> I'll bet dollars to donuts that pay a Club fee to that collection which includes the II membership.



Of course, and that is what azfamily meant when he/she wrote "Diamond does give you Interval International membership already."


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## tschwa2

Resale owners in the trust collections are not eligible for Club membership (without an additional hefty points buy in).  These resale owners do not pay any club dues that include exchange fee membership.  They do pay a line item in their MF for management of the trust based on the number of points they own.  I believe Club members pay this in addition to their club fees.  In fact with the exception of resale points owners of the Monarch collection most resale points owners are not eligible to use their points with either II or RCI even if they were willing to pay for their own individual membership.  My understanding is resale owners can only use their points to book within their trust.  They are not given any other option to bank or use their week with an exchange company.  

Even if an owner with membership in the Club sells, the points revert back to being good only in the trust collection where the points are deeded.  This is another reason why unlike Marriott or other high end clubs that DRI aspires to be like, resale DRI points are worth $0.


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## mysticah

azfamily said:


> I hope that ILX (now DRI) people who read these posts, take all the opinions posted here with a grain of salt.
> 
> There are a lot of opinions here but too many facts are being omitted.
> 
> I'm not saying that people shouldn't be disappointed by some of the changes that occurred when DRI took over, but be honest with yourselves about the circumstances.
> 
> Ultimately DRI did "save" the ILX owners from having NOTHING (due to ILX bankruptcy).
> 
> DRI does cost more, because DRI is a more expansive and expensive/quality timeshare than ILX was.
> 
> I too was disappointed by the fee increases.  Yet I factually understand them.
> 
> If anyone has questions about the DRI takeover, feel free to ask and I will be happy to give an unbiased, non opinionated account of what changed and why.
> 
> It seems that a lot of the posts here are simply opinions and not the actual what and why of what happened.
> 
> If you are just someone that does not want your timeshare, this is a bad place to be under DRI.  If you want to use your timeshare, DRI actually has a pretty decent infrastructure.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk




Azfamily you are obviously very happy with your relationship with DRI, and you seem to be well versed on how they work, good for you! Have you ever considered a career with DRI? Perhaps you should ;-)

Allow me to make some things perfectly clear: 

1- The information I have provided here, as relates to MY SITUATION, are FACTS, they are NOT opinions. Frankly, I couldn't care less about the "actual what and why of what happened" because that is all water under the bridge and not relevant to my situation. 

2- "Ultimately DRI did "save" the ILX owners from having NOTHING (due to ILX bankruptcy)." 

^^^^^ that would be an 'opinion' since the bankruptcy didn't fully playout, no one can say what the end result would have been. But I will concede your opinion that ILX owners would have been left with nothing, and in MY case, that would have been preferable to a DRI takeover. Who knows? I may have even been able to write the loss off on my taxes.

3- "Did the contract you originally bought change, yes." 

And there's the rub! In order for a contract to be valid there has to be an offer, an acceptance and a meeting of the minds. What we bought may "no longer exist" but I can damn sure guarantee you that there was NO acceptance or meeting of the minds when DRI materially changed our contract!

4- "This is what you originally bought, so how upset can you be? Diamond retained what you originally bought)." 

In case you haven't been keeping up on current events, the points required for a weeks stay at MY DEEDED RESORT far exceed the number of points DRI arbitrarily assigned to my deed. Setting aside the loss of flex weeks that I have previously addressed, I bought and paid for a deeded week that I can't use unless I buy more points - so NO this is NOT what I originally bought! 

Look at it like this: Say I bought a fully loaded Ford car. In addition to paying for all those extras, part of what I paid for was a bumper to bumper, lifetime warrantee that carried an annual deductible. But then Ford filed bankruptcy and they were taken over by Lincoln. Lincoln informs me that they have removed all the extras I paid for because they don't fit their business model. In addition, my deductible has tripled, but I should be grateful because without them I would have to maintain my own car (at a fraction of the cost). And last but not least, they took the engine out of my car, but that's ok, I can buy it back from them. 

Maybe the DRI cheerleaders can understand it now.


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## friedshrimp

mysticah said:


> In case you haven't been keeping up on current events, the points required for a weeks stay at MY DEEDED RESORT far exceed the number of points DRI arbitrarily assigned to my deed. Setting aside the loss of flex weeks that I have previously addressed, I bought and paid for a deeded week that I can't use unless I buy more points - so NO this is NOT what I originally bought!



I'm sorry but this is what I disagree with. I owned at Powhatan Plantation which at the time was an independent timeshare. It was then bought by Sunterra. Yes, they tried to get me into their points but I said no and continued to use my fixed week as I always had. Then along comes Diamond and same thing. Yes, I eventually, voluntarily, converted to points and now, depending on time of year, it costs more or fewer points to get into the same unit but I voluntarily converted to points.

To get one other thing off my chest, as a 21 year, retired USAF MSgt myself, you are using your husband's job as your excuse to not use the timeshare the first 10 years. I can state emphatically that your husband was not deployed/TDY for 10 years straight nor were you or any possible children tied down to base without the option to leave without your husband. Was I able to timeshare every year due to my military commitment, no. But we did take many vacations timesharing, also my wife and the kids went to some on their own when I was unable, and family an friends got to use it as well. You had ample opportunity to use the timeshare but for your own reasons, chose not to.......but don't blame the USAF for your decision to not use your timeshare.


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## mysticah

friedshrimp said:


> I'm sorry but this is what I disagree with. I owned at Powhatan Plantation which at the time was an independent timeshare. It was then bought by Sunterra. Yes, they tried to get me into their points but I said no and continued to use my fixed week as I always had. Then along comes Diamond and same thing. Yes, I eventually, voluntarily, converted to points and now, depending on time of year, it costs more or fewer points to get into the same unit but I voluntarily converted to points.
> 
> To get one other thing off my chest, as a 21 year, retired USAF MSgt myself, you are using your husband's job as your excuse to not use the timeshare the first 10 years. I can state emphatically that your husband was not deployed/TDY for 10 years straight nor were you or any possible children tied down to base without the option to leave without your husband. Was I able to timeshare every year due to my military commitment, no. But we did take many vacations timesharing, also my wife and the kids went to some on their own when I was unable, and family an friends got to use it as well. You had ample opportunity to use the timeshare but for your own reasons, chose not to.......but don't blame the USAF for your decision to not use your timeshare.




We did not voluntarily change to points and were not given the same options you were.

Please re-read what I said. "... we did NOT have the luxury of planning our leave well in advance..." I refuse to get into the specifics of my husbands career, suffice it to say, his time was less his own than many and we lost more leave than we took. I never said, nor did I imply, he was deployed or on TDY for ten years. I said the availability and advance booking were not compatible with his duties and schedule. It is what it is, I am not blaming the USAF.


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## azfamily

Mysticah,

There is quite a bit that I could reply to your post, but you're absolutely correct, at this point it's water under the bridge.

Regarding your bullet point #1:
Trying to apply what happened with the Diamond takeover to your situation is impossible.  There is no viable scenario under which an owner can stop paying maintenance fees and there be any usable outcome.

Bullet point #2:

You mention that in YOUR case bankruptcy would have been preferable.

I suppose this is accurate. Because what would've happened, is the same amount of bills would've been due by the club, and without money or Diamond saving ILX, special assessments would've been issued on top of maintenance fees and things would've really gotten out-of-control.

Again, in your situation this might have been preferable since you weren't paying your bills anyway.  

However, those of us that were paying our debts, and trying to maintain use of our timeshare, would've paid the extra assessments. This certainly would've been way worse than maintenance fees going up.







Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## azfamily

To your last point (#4), how many points were you assigned? 
I believe the point conversion was very accurate/fair.

Diamond DID change the way that usage was delivered. 

I was EOY but was converted to 4,250 points ANNUALLY.
The design of this was to use those Diamond points all at once (EOY), if you still wanted a week at a time.

Currently a week at Los Abrigados runs about 6,300 points.

I also owned at Los Abrigados. It seems that we had the same/similar original contract. 

As far as Flex Weeks, what is that exactly?  



Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## youppi

Hi, 
This is an equivalent of 8500 EOY (2 bdrm family mid season or a 1 bdrm peak season at Los Abrigados) that you have now in DRI points (4250 pts EY).
What did you own with ILX ? Sorry if you already posted the answer but I can't find the info in your previous posts. I'm blind.

thanks


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## azfamily

This is exactly what I had, every other year two bedroom. Which is why I say I think the conversion rate was fair.

My question is, what does MYSTICHA think flex weeks are? 

Are you just considering this floating weeks and not a fixed week? 

Because I had the same thing too.

Also she alludes to the fact that Diamond took this away somehow. 

With the Diamond point system, you couldn't be more flexible than with points.


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## youppi

Thanks.
I'm just curious.
How much they charge you to convert ?
Did they propose you a rebate if you bought more points at the time of conversion ?

In my case I was a Sunterra Point owner. So, when DRI took over Sunterra, nothing changed except that DRI increased the MF but improved the resorts quality. I had nothing to pay to join the Club because The Club points system was Sunterra and DRI just continue it. So, no conversion in my case. Number of points at each Sunterra resorts didn't change. DRI was a week system before they took over Sunterra. They add their Polo Tower in the Club and after that they started many acquisition and added more affiliation resorts. The only problem is the number of point requires at each new resorts that is often too high compared to the rental value at those same resorts for a week. Depending how much you pay up-front for your points, the saving cost by using point compared to renting must be enough high to recover quickly your investment. There is why today with all the rental by owner close to MF makes owning a timeshare less desirable.


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## T_R_Oglodyte

azfamily said:


> I was EOY but was converted to 4,250 points ANNUALLY.
> The design of this was to use those Diamond points all at once (EOY), if you still wanted a week at a time.



The potential problem with that conversion is that the early reservation window (10 to 13 months before checkin) can only use current year points; i.e., So if you are only getting 4250 points per year, you can't reserve that 8500 point week until the 10-month window when it becomes open to all Club members.

The way around that is to get a grandfathering letter at the time of conversion that gives you a right to use two allotments with the home resort advantage period.


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## youppi

No. At the beginning of 2015, you bank your 2015 points (4250) to 2016 and you pay 75% of your 2016 MF and you can use the full 8500 pts 2016 at 13 month in advance (book in Jan 2015 for a Feb 2016 reservation).

In Jan 2014, I paid 75% of my MF for my 15000 pts 2015. I booked 2 weeks at KBC (13000 pts) for Feb/Mar 2015 (13 months in advanced). In Jan 2015, I banked my remaining 2000 pts 2015 to 2016 and I paid 75% of my 2016 MF (15000 pts) and I booked 2 weeks at Poipu (17000 pts) for Feb/Mar 2016 (13 months in advanced)


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## mysticah

azfamily said:


> Mysticah,
> 
> Again, in your situation this might have been preferable since you weren't paying your bills anyway.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



Lol You might want to start reading this post from the beginning.

DRI assigned 3500 points to our EOY deeded week, to be doled out at 1750 per year. As you can plainly see, it would take 3-4 years of banking points to be able to stay for ONE week.

Do I even need to point out the obvious re: time limits for banked points? Or that this effectively rendered our timeshare useless?  You said it yourself: "Currently a week at Los Abrigados runs about 6,300 points."

I believe I explained flex weeks early on and it has nothing to do with floating/fixed. It was an up-sell item that allowed us the option of purchasing 6 or 8 (IDR) additional weeks EY at a drastically reduced rate. The purchase of this option was precisely why we bought EOY instead of EY. 



azfamily said:


> "You mention that in YOUR case bankruptcy would have been preferable.
> 
> I suppose this is accurate. Because what would've happened, is the same amount of bills would've been due by the club, and without money or Diamond saving ILX, special assessments would've been issued on top of maintenance fees and things would've really gotten out-of-control."



Ummm, No. That is not how bankruptcy works. You wouldn't have paid anything, the debts would have been discharged in the bankruptcy. 

As simply put as possible:

1- ILX goes under with no bailout

End result: A-I lose my deed B-No Vacations for Life®

2- ILX gets bailed out, I take issue with DRI breaching my contract and rendering my timeshare useless so I stop paying them. I become a reluctant 'David' vs 'Goliath'  

End result: A-I am out even more $ and potentially my good credit 
B-I lose my deed and DRI gets to resell it, Cha-ching for them! C-No Vacations for Life® 

3- ILX gets bailed out, I take issue with DRI breaching my contract and rendering my timeshare useless BUT I keep paying their ever increasing fees (because....???)

End result: A-I am out @ $1000 a year for the REST OF MY LIFE
B-I still have my (useless) deed! Woohoo! C-No Vacations for Life® 

It should now be abundantly clear to all but the intentionally obtuse or DRI shills, why we have taken the position we have. Therefore, I will no longer engage.


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## azfamily

Scratch that, the "copper"/smaller unit which you bought ranges from 3,000 - 3,300 points. I was looking at a 2 bedroom before. So the conversion rate was acceptable.


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## SmithOp

I hope you do report back with what your lawyer's counsel is, the way you were converted to points by default for not responding seems like it was illegal slamming to me.  I wish you the best in this contract dispute.

I dont own DRI, but have stayed in several of their resorts and like their quality.  


Sent from my iPad using the strange new version of Tapatalk


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## azfamily

When Diamonds took over, everybody was automatically converted to points. This is the only way Diamond runs their reservation system. 

Nobody was simply converted because they didn't respond to the letter.




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## youppi

Why 3500 pts and 6300 pts.
I don't see those numbers in the grid


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## azfamily

I just looked at 2016 availability, those are the numbers listed if you book right now.


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## youppi

Interesting that you can get it at 6300 pts. When I check Los Abrigados, 2bdrm, Jan 2016 to Aug 2016 with my Hawaii Collection, the minimum point I can get is 8000 pts (Jan 10).


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## Michael1991

youppi said:


> Interesting that you can get it at 6300 pts. When I check Los Abrigados, 2bdrm, Jan 2016 to Aug 2016 with my Hawaii Collection, the minimum point I can get is 8000 pts (Jan 10).



I'm seeing the same result, nothing less than 8000pts for a two bedroom. I'm US Collection.


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## friedshrimp

Actually, the OP had no contract with DRI for them to breach. ILX may have breached her contract but that is between her and ILX (who is no longer an entity).


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## friedshrimp

azfamily said:


> *When Diamonds took over, everybody was automatically converted to points. *This is the only way Diamond runs their reservation system.
> 
> Nobody was simply converted because they didn't respond to the letter.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



While this may or may not have happened with ILX, this is not what happened at Powhatan Plantation. There are still many fixed week owners at Powhatan that Diamond is trying to convert to points but have been unsuccessful in talking them into converting. So automatic conversion is not a standard Diamond practice.


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## SmithOp

friedshrimp said:


> While this may or may not have happened with ILX, this is not what happened at Powhatan Plantation. There are still many fixed week owners at Powhatan that Diamond is trying to convert to points but have been unsuccessful in talking them into converting. So automatic conversion is not a standard Diamond practice.




That was my impression too, I spoke with an owner at Sedona Summit and they were being pressured to convert their deeded week, I advised them not to do it.


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## Michael1991

There is no reason a fixed week or flex week can not be assigned point values. An example of deed language for a "flex timeshare interest" at a Diamond managed resort might be "An undivided 15000 interest in fee simple as tenant in common in and to Unit Numbers 811AB, 812AB, 813AB, 814AB, 815AB." 

But assigning point values to intervals is altogether different from converting a deeded ownership to trust ownership. I don't believe Diamond did that type of conversion in the case of ILX or any other case. That would be far too egregious.


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## Noonga

I have long since walked away from this, but as I was converting my email to a new system, I found this link.

In short, I did not read all of the above, but AZFamily, you were not on the call or with me when I dealt with Diamond, and how they, and the manager basically said there is nothing they will do for us other than we pay them 4k (and 2k later I think it was), or we walk away with nothing.

Was ILX worth nothing? If so, why would Diamond buy junk.  It was obviously worth something, and the fact that they took advantage of owners like me makes me furious again.

I have since foreclosed on the property and took a credit hit.  I did't HAVE the $500 to put towards them, and they would not give an inch.  I put 16k+ into my timeshare and thought I would have something for the future.

But anyways, it's over. You could say whatever you want but you will never see my point of view as I read through your posts.

I have been asked about timeshares over the past year, and I have, and always will, give Diamond Resorts an absolute 0 on a 1-10 scale.

The fact that they even wanted me to pay them $500 to avoid bad credit, when they got what they got from me, makes me want to puke.

Time to go post again on social media how bad they are again.

Good day.


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## azfamily

Noonga said:


> I have long since walked away from this, but as I was converting my email to a new system, I found this link.
> 
> 
> 
> In short, I did not read all of the above, but AZFamily, you were not on the call or with me when I dealt with Diamond, and how they, and the manager basically said there is nothing they will do for us other than we pay them 4k (and 2k later I think it was), or we walk away with nothing.
> 
> 
> 
> Was ILX worth nothing? If so, why would Diamond buy junk.  It was obviously worth something, and the fact that they took advantage of owners like me makes me furious again.
> 
> 
> 
> I have since foreclosed on the property and took a credit hit.  I did't HAVE the $500 to put towards them, and they would not give an inch.  I put 16k+ into my timeshare and thought I would have something for the future.
> 
> 
> 
> But anyways, it's over. You could say whatever you want but you will never see my point of view as I read through your posts.
> 
> 
> 
> I have been asked about timeshares over the past year, and I have, and always will, give Diamond Resorts an absolute 0 on a 1-10 scale.
> 
> 
> 
> The fact that they even wanted me to pay them $500 to avoid bad credit, when they got what they got from me, makes me want to puke.
> 
> 
> 
> Time to go post again on social media how bad they are again.
> 
> 
> 
> Good day.





Hello again...

I do concur that the Diamond takeover was not ideal (at the time), but since ILX ran their program into the ground, it was the only option. 

I am glad that you were able to rid yourself of the timeshare that did not fit your needs any longer.

I certainly wish your financial situation had not put you into the predicament that it did.

Would I ever buy a timeshare again? No.

That said, I am enjoying my Diamond ownership. 

I had 2 stellar trips this summer.

You can post what you want on social media.
Unfortunately your "reviews" of what Diamond IS and what "happened to you", are 180 degrees apart.

Diamond did not cause ILX to go under.
Diamond did purchase (save) ILX and this conversion generated a much more costly product.
The product, however, is significantly better than ILX (better locations and better maintained properties).  Hence the premium in cost.

There just is a great learning curve to make it work.  

Once you let the fees (delinquencies) get backed up as far as you did, it left you with really bad options.

At least you were able to get out fairly inexpensively.

Safe travels!









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## bogey21

Noonga said:


> Today I get the Notice of Delinquent Assessment. I call them and I have 1 of three options:
> A) Pay over 4k in 30 days to keep it.
> B) Pay them 500 and call it a wash
> C) Let it forclose.



If OP had tried to work with DRI instead of stonewalling them, they may have received an offer like the above.  IMO paying $500 and avoiding the ugly alternatives is well worth it.

George


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