# Hilton points and using them to the max



## rickandcindy23 (May 11, 2009)

I asked Seth Nock this question, and I remember he made it sound very good..........

Anyway, I would like to go to Orlando in the fall and winter, excluding all of the busy times.  I would like to try Hilton, but what would my net cost be for weeks in those slow times, for a 1 and 2 bedroom, and what resort should I consider for my resale purchase.  What are the MF's?


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## Talent312 (May 11, 2009)

Perhaps others can be more helpful than I, but in Orlando, Seaworld _*can*_ be booked more "cheaply" than International Drive & Parc Soleil. That is becuz Seaworld has a relatively low-cost Silver Season, while the others have only the higher-cost Gold+Platinum Seasons.

Seaworld's Seasons and points needed to book a 1+2 BR for a week in each:
Silver (Wks 44-50).................. 2400 / 3500
Gold (Wks 1-5, 16-23, 33-43)... 3400 / 5000
Platinum (6-15, 24-32, 51-52)... 4800 / 7000
-- I-Drive + Parc Soleil's Gold Season includes Seaword's Silver weeks.

MF's roughly range from $700 - $900, depending, not on the season, but on the unit size, so its better to buy a low # of BR's TS in a high season (paltinum) than a high # of BR's in a low season (silver).

It doesn't really matter _where_ you buy your unit.  Any 1 or 2-BR Platinum TS will give you enuff points for 2 weeks in like-size unit during a Silver Season week... Yet, you'd pay the same MF as one Silver Season TS.
Admittedly, I did not do this myself... not being smart enuff at the time.


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## alwysonvac (May 11, 2009)

Here's a link to the 2009 HGVC Member Guide - http://www.hiltongrandvacations.com/mg/
- Orlando Resorts (points required and season info) is on pages 52 - 61 
- Club Rules are covered on pages 140 - 146
- Fees are listed on page 147

Here's a link to the following:
2009 MFs - http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=83985
Recommended resale agents -           http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=88428
Recent ROFR discussion - http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=87314
What resort have the cheapest MF? - http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=97149
If it's all about pts.,why do some people want to buy at specific resorts? - http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=97455


HGVC is a combination of a week and points system. The flexible point based system doesn't apply during the home resort period. During the home resort period (9 to 12 months out) you have to reserve your unit for the full week (each resort has a designated check-in date) in the unit size, unit type/view and season you own. Also HGVC has minimum night requirements. See quote below for more details.

HGVC has three reservation windows:
(1) Home Resort window (3 month period requires a full week reservation)
(2) Club Reservation window (9 month period requires a three night minimum)
(3) Open Season window (30 day period requires a two night minimum)

HGVC works like a floating week system during the Home Resort window which means from 12 months to 9 months before check-in, if you want to visit your home resort then you must reserve the exact unit size and type in the season that you purchased (studio, 1 bedroom plus, etc) for the full week based on the fixed checkin date at your home resort. There is no flexibility. NOTE: Only points earned in the use year can be used in the home resort window. Borrowed, Rescued or Banked points can not be used in the home resort window.

HGVC works like a point based system during the Club Reservation window which means 9 months before checkout anyone can exchange into any season, resort (including your home resort), unit size and/or type for any number of days (minimum of 3 nights). This means all HGVC resort owners have an equal chance at booking at any HGVC resort (except NYC W57) during the Club Reservation window.

There is something called a changeable reservation option which allows members to change their reservations online. However the changeable reservation option only applies to Club Reservations (and W57's Home Resort reservations). 

Orlando is easy to get during the Club Reservation window and Open Season therefore most folks will probably suggest to buy the HGVC resort with the lowest MF.

HGVC Maintenance Fee (MF) is generally based on resort and unit size therefore a two bedroom bronze season owner (2,500 annual HGVC points) may pay the same MF as a platinum season (7,000 annual HGVC points), gold season (5,000 annual HGVC points) and silver season (3,500 annual HGVC points) at the same resort.

Good Luck


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## rickandcindy23 (May 11, 2009)

Looks like I am going to have to study a new system.  Even though I can get trades into Orlando when I want, that one-in-four rule is a killer for me, and I love the Hiltons, including the one at Seaworld with its great units and location.   

We go to Orlando about 5-6 weeks per year, sometimes even 7, and I don't have enough traders to get into Disneys every single trip.  It's Marriott Cypress Harbour and Hiltons for me, when I can manage to get them, too.    

Are owners exempt from the 1-in-4 rule with weeks' exchanges?


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## JonathanIT (May 11, 2009)

HGVC is awesome. If you purchase, you won't be sorry!  

Food for thought: Consider purchasing in Vega$.  The MF&T are cheaper, and the points are worth the same.  And there is absolutely NO problem getting availability anywhere in Olrando, just about anytime of the year through HGVC.


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## UWSurfer (May 12, 2009)

rickandcindy23 said:


> Are owners exempt from the 1-in-4 rule with weeks' exchanges?



We have to be very clear with what you mean by weeks' exchanges.    There are no weeks' exchanges within the HGVC system.   You either book your home resort week exactly as you own it, or you book in club season (9 months out) with your points.  There is no 1-in-4 rule within the HGVC system.

The 1-in-4 rule is an RCI rule for RCI exchanges.  I've been told here it applies per property...not per region (Orlando, Vegas, Hawaii) but you would make an RCI exchange using another non-HGVC timeshare into an HGVC property where that rule would apply.   Now take it one step further, does the 1-in-4 rule apply to HGVC owners using a non-HGVC property to trade into HGVC via RCI?   Yes it does.

Here's one other concept which took me awhile to grasp; points are points.  It doesn't matter what season you own or what season you are booking.  You can use points anytime in the club season window (9 months out) for any season so long as you have enough to book what you want.


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## rickandcindy23 (May 12, 2009)

Hi Steve, thanks for your private message, too. 

I meant, if I am a Hilton owner, can I get weeks through RCI without having to worry about the 1-in-4 rule with my generic weeks.  But, as you said, I guess I cannot get around that rule as an owner.  Well, that is disappointing, but it's okay because I might do it anyway, to get the Hiltons in the slow seasons for those low numbers of points.  Why would I need to exchange into HGVC, if I would use the points for off-season ressies.  

I am reading the Hilton owners' manual.  It's a lot of reading, and the book is tiny with little writing, so I had to zoom it, and then the entire thing doesn't fit on one page.  I move the text around by dragging where I want.  It will take awhile.


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## PigsDad (May 12, 2009)

Another way to stretch your points is to shave off a weekend night.  Weekends cost double the nightly points as weekdays.  So staying 6 nights instead of 7 will cost 20% less points, if you shave off a weekend night.  If that works for you, it can make a big difference.

Kurt


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## UWSurfer (May 12, 2009)

While booking off season (Bronze & Silver) periods will demand fewer points, they are for undesirable times like hurrican season in Orlando, the peak of summer in Las Vegas & so on.   Again points are points.  The difference between silver and gold season for a 1 bedroom is only 1000 HGVC points.  If you are going to spend the money to purchase a week for several thousand $, pay exactly the same membership fee,  maintenance & booking fee's as everyone else, you may find that you'll want to use your points to stay at more desirable times because, again it's not worth it IMHO to limit yourself to the shaddow times for the $$ you already are spending.

That isn't to say you can't or won't stay at those times, but you wouldn't want to limit yourself to only those times.   

One more thought about the 1-in-4.  As you know I have HGVC and a non-HGVC which generates RCI points.  I tend to save and use my HGVC points for bigger trips &/or stays at HGVC's for high demand periods.  I tend exchange in via RCI when I'm doing something for work or at a lower season period because it's available, I have a lot of RCI points and I get a lot of value from the exchange...HGVC quality for lessor TS points.   I can always book the same HGVC property I just stayed at via exchange with HGVC points within the 1-in-4 period if I want to go back there and work the RCI exchange with something else.  Also, since it applies to RCI per property and you are focusing on Orlando, you could do each of the three Orlando properties, one per year with RCI exchanges and the forth year via your HGVC points...provided you want to go there every year.

For me it's a matter of getting the most value using that which I own, and staying when and where we want.


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## Talent312 (May 12, 2009)

rickandcindy23 said:


> Why would I need to exchange into HGVC, if I would use the points for off-season ressies.
> 
> I am reading the Hilton owners' manual.  It's a lot of reading, and the book is tiny with little writing, so I had to zoom it, and then the entire thing doesn't fit on one page.



*Back in olden days (a few years ago)...*
HGVC'ers discovered that it often cost fewer points to book a HGVC affiliated-resort using Hilton's RCI program than it did making a direct booking with HGVC points. Hilton went along with this for a while.  Now, if its a resort you can book with HGVC points, you _should_ not be able to get their RCI desk to make the same booking for you... Although, its apparently still done  _(see post below)_.

The Member's Guide is is rather verbose and seems more devoted to artsy-photos than providing practical information.  Additionaly, the flexibility of the system (which we like) makes it exceedingly complex.  One can re-read the Guide several times and still fail the open-book exam.


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## alwysonvac (May 12, 2009)

Talent312 said:


> *Back in olden days (a few years ago)...*
> HGVC'ers discovered that it often cost fewer points to book a HGVC affiliated-resort using Hilton's RCI program than it did making a direct booking with HGVC points. Stangely enuff, Hilton went along with this.  Then they wised up.  So now, if its a resort you can book with HGVC points, you should not be able to get their RCI desk to make the same booking for you.



Some are still reporting success with using their HGVC points for RCI exchanges back into HGVC resorts - see http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=89657


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## rickandcindy23 (May 12, 2009)

Another question: How do Hilton Points relate to RCI Points?  Can I use them to get the last-minute exchanges for 7,500-9,000 points in RCI through points?


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## Talent312 (May 12, 2009)

rickandcindy23 said:


> Another question: How do Hilton Points relate to RCI Points?  Can I use them to get the last-minute exchanges for 7,500-9,000 points in RCI through points?



HGVC has a corporate-RCI account that can draw nearly any available unit in the RCI system (whether weeks or points).  Technically, its not your account. Rather, the booking is made by Hilton for you (as if you were Hilton's guest). The process is opaque as you must rely on Hilton  to tell you what they can get for you.

But whether your booking is made 2-years out or last minute, your cost in HGVC-points is going to be the same... The chart is on pg. 141 of the Guide.  For example:
A 2BR would be 4800 (Red), 3400 (White) or 2400 (Blue) in HGVC-points.
A 1BR would be 2400 (Red), 1700 (White) or 1200 (Blue) in HGVC-points.
Nightly rates are available, where allowed.


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## UWSurfer (May 12, 2009)

There was a thread on that a few months back.   In theory you can get access to those last minute exchanges, but I think in practice it could be difficult since RCI inventory is not availble on-line via HGVC.   You are required to go through the call center.

HGVC limits the exchanges they will make to top tier places based on member feedback and other considerations.   You usually won't find anything less than gold crown and even that isn't guarantee it will be made available.


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## hvacrsteve (May 17, 2009)

*I am fairly new at this!*

I am just starting to learn all the tricks to get the most bang for your points.
The one thing I see is people worried about is not using this years points, from what I see the best approach is to always be borrowing points from the next year!
I have already used all of my 2009 points and one quarter of 2010 points, by December I hope to have most all of my 2010 points used so I go into 2010 and start using 2011 points!
Then my MF payments are going for the year thats booked or what I have already used and I do not have to worry about how to get rid of points at the end of a year!
The conversions to HHonors etc. do not seem to be an advantage, however I have already earned 110K Honors points through my credit cards this year.
A few thousand more and I can get a cat 6 for at least 4 nights!
If anyone has more tips, I am open!


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## GTLINZ (May 18, 2009)

hvacrsteve said:


> I am just starting to learn all the tricks to get the most bang for your points.
> The one thing I see is people worried about is not using this years points, from what I see the best approach is to always be borrowing points from the next year!



I love the flexibility of HGVC points but I am not consistent in how many I use in a year. My first trick is that for Orlando (since I live in GA) I sometimes take short notice trips on holiday weekends using open season (30 days out). With the 3rd location opening, I am even less worried about last minute reservations. And often a studio will work for me (or multiple with friends).

Another trick I use, for peace of mind, is that I ALWAYS push my next year's points forward a year for $69 bucks near the end of December - because I know I can borrow them the next year. There are years that I used them all anyway and waste the money, but I am not in a position to HAVE TO try and spend all my points. In this way I can float up to a year's worth of points and use them for a bigger trip. This also is very helpfull if you own other timeshares or travel in other ways (relatives, cash, etc).


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## yungster (May 18, 2009)

Are you allowed to use borrowed points to make a home resort reservation?

i.e. It's 2009 and I've used up all my 2009 and 2010 points (borrowed). Then 2010 rolls around and I'd still like to make a home resort reservation... Can I borrow my 2011 points into 2010 to make that reservation?

Thanks.


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## PigsDad (May 18, 2009)

yungster said:


> Are you allowed to use borrowed points to make a home resort reservation?
> 
> i.e. It's 2009 and I've used up all my 2009 and 2010 points (borrowed). Then 2010 rolls around and I'd still like to make a home resort reservation... Can I borrow my 2011 points into 2010 to make that reservation?



AFAIK, no -- you cannot do that.  You must use the current year points for the home resort reservation.  If someone knows otherwise, please correct me.

Kurt


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## Talent312 (May 18, 2009)

yungster said:


> Are you allowed to use borrowed points to make a home resort reservation?
> i.e. It's 2009 and I've used up all my 2009 and 2010 points (borrowed). Then 2010 rolls around and I'd still like to make a home resort reservation... Can I borrow my 2011 points into 2010 to make that reservation?



"Borrowed points may not be used to make a Home Week reservation. If ClubPoints are borrowed, H-W reservation rights during the H-W reservation period for the year in which the ClubPoints were borrowed, are relinguished." -- 2009 Member's Guide, pg.142

IOW, you were screwed out of a H-W reservation in 2010 the moment you borrowed points from 2010, and no, you can't replace 'em by using points borrowed from 2011.


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## Bustah (May 19, 2009)

Think we're back to the "how do you use your points" question.

If you never worry about HW reservations, *hvacrsteve *has it right.  Since I often don't know what I'm able to do until about 6 mos out, that's how we use our points as well.

I didn't realize you could only use current-year points for a HW res, so it's likely I'll never make one.  Strike another one up for that user-friendly member's guide!


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## Hawaii 5-0 (May 19, 2009)

Talent312 said:


> "Borrowed points may not be used to make a Home Week reservation. If ClubPoints are borrowed, H-W reservation rights during the H-W reservation period for the year in which the ClubPoints were borrowed, are relinguished." -- 2009 Member's Guide, pg.142



Since the point with Home Week is that every year you should be able to book what you own the rule makes sense.


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## hvacrsteve (May 19, 2009)

*home week*

Since we actually will never go for exactly one week, we either go 4-5 days at a time or 8 to 11 days at a time.
I do not like traveling on Saturdays with the rest of the crowd going from Saturday to Saturday.
I believe your options are limited and I hate setting in traffic! and setting at the airport!
Thus far every time we have wanted to go has been available.
I hope it stays like that.
Since we live in DC,(to Hilton Club NYC) we cango by bus, train,plane or drive if we want to make a side trip.


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## yungster (May 19, 2009)

Talent312 said:


> "Borrowed points may not be used to make a Home Week reservation. If ClubPoints are borrowed, H-W reservation rights during the H-W reservation period for the year in which the ClubPoints were borrowed, are relinguished." -- 2009 Member's Guide, pg.142
> 
> IOW, you were screwed out of a H-W reservation in 2010 the moment you borrowed points from 2010, and no, you can't replace 'em by using points borrowed from 2011.



If I own two different timeshares, can you choose which one you're borrowing next year's points from?

Thanks.


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## toontoy (May 19, 2009)

yungster said:


> If I own two different timeshares, can you choose which one you're borrowing next year's points from?
> 
> Thanks.



I have done this and you have to call but must not use any of the points that go with that account, you have to spli them in your mind. Lets say you have 2 7,000 weeks, you can use one 7,000 to borrow and use the home week for the other. You most likely will have to call as online works sometimes and othertimes does not.


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## mrsmusic (May 21, 2009)

*Considering a Hilton purchase*

Hi, I'm considering a HGVC purchase.  Since DVC now trades within RCI, how many HGVC points does it take to get a DVC using the RCI points conversion?  ie, how do you "deposit" points into RCI for use as RCI points for any resort--using DVC as my top end to consider?  

Thanks, 
Crystal

ps HI alwaysonvac !


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## PigsDad (May 21, 2009)

mrsmusic said:


> Hi, I'm considering a HGVC purchase.  Since DVC now trades within RCI, how many HGVC points does it take to get a DVC using the RCI points conversion?  ie, how do you "deposit" points into RCI for use as RCI points for any resort--using DVC as my top end to consider?



For RCI trades in red time, a 1BR is 3400 pts, 2BR is 4800 pts, 3BR is 5800.  It is actuall quite a bargain, as Platinum season in a HGVC Orlando property would be 4800, 7000, and 8400 points, respectively, for the same size rooms.

Kurt


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