# Fairmont Heritage San Francisco?



## SDKath (Apr 5, 2011)

Does anyone have any info on these fractionals?  Is there a pricing guide someplace?  I see 2 and 3br units -- do you buy into a size or do you get "points" that you can spend based on the size you may need at one time.

Also, is reservation difficult?  And are there fixed weeks?  Thanks so much for any info!  I am trying to avoid talking to a salesperson until I get some basics to make sure this is what we're looking for.


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## DeniseM (Apr 5, 2011)

"DONE -- REALLY this time!!!"  :hysterical:


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## SDKath (Apr 5, 2011)

DeniseM said:


> "DONE -- REALLY this time!!!"  :hysterical:



Doesn't hurt to research!  Actually, it's for the parents...  but they know nothing about TSing so I am doing the legwork for them.  If I don't, the sales guy will have them signing on the dotted line about 10 minutes into the sales pitch.  

Kath


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## Kagehitokiri2 (Apr 5, 2011)

http://luxuryfractionalguide.com/enhanced/listing-fairmont-heritage-place--ghirardelli-square.php
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0NG16SWZag8
5 weeks, then $100/nt

more lux, but not as good re use >
http://www.ritzcarltonclub.com/ritz-carlton-luxury-resorts/san-francisco-luxury-resort.shtml


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## SDKath (Apr 6, 2011)

Kagehitokiri2 said:


> http://luxuryfractionalguide.com/enhanced/listing-fairmont-heritage-place--ghirardelli-square.php
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0NG16SWZag8
> 5 weeks, then $100/nt
> 
> ...



Thank you.  Informative videos.  So basically 2 weeks you can book ahead, last 3 weeks must be booked under 90 days out??  YIYEKS.

Kath


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## Kagehitokiri2 (Apr 6, 2011)

no clue unfortunately

first link and video seem somewhat different


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## Fredm (Apr 6, 2011)

Here is a summary of the Fairmont Heritage Place GSQ, prices and program.

Note prices are dated. I obtained them at the opening a couple of years ago.


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## SDKath (Apr 7, 2011)

Fredm said:


> Here is a summary of the Fairmont Heritage Place GSQ, prices and program.
> 
> Note prices are dated. I obtained them at the opening a couple of years ago.



Thank you so much, as always!  LOL about: "During my stay at Heritage GSQ a newer Maserati 4 door sedan, with driver, was available to me for local transportation needs, at no additional cost. Very cool way to pick up sundries at Walgreen's!"



Katherine


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## GregGH (Apr 16, 2011)

More questions .....

fifty some odd units - are there non fractional units as well? Does Hotel own additional units?  Or this is separate from Hotel ?   If Not - any 'rent back ( condo-hotel ? ) options.

Place rates very well on trip advisor ( http://www.tripadvisor.com/Hotel_Re...rardelli_Square-San_Francisco_California.html )  

How many units got sold and how many are still for initial sale?  Wondering how these sell in re-sale market?

Greg


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## Kagehitokiri2 (Apr 16, 2011)

from video >
53 >
4 1BR
42 2BR (ER has 12)
7 3BR

http://www.businesswire.com/news/ho...Heritage-Place-Ghirardelli-Square-Sales-Month
says 200 sold, but not sure how thats counting

http://www.fairmont.com/EN_FA/Property/realestatemapindex.htm
fairmont has no condohotel
san francisco, telluride, zimbali fractionals have hotel rental

***

the DC-style use is interesting, reminiscent of karma resorts. banyan tree private collection has some restrictions. 

considering president's circle im curious what the cheapest entry price is. if telluride is only one (of 6 destinations) to have 2 week option, that certainly seems most likely, but i will probably call to find out.


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## SDKath (Apr 21, 2011)

They must not be too hard up to sell.  I filled out the form for further info and got a generic email from a sales rep.  Replied asking for more info and heard nothing.  Called some sales number and left a message over a week ago -- no response.  Talk about a LAID BACK (read: lazy and uncaring) sales staff.

Katherine


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## Jasmine658 (May 8, 2011)

*Rent or trade, but don't buy there...*



SDKath said:


> They must not be too hard up to sell.  I filled out the form for further info and got a generic email from a sales rep.  Replied asking for more info and heard nothing.  Called some sales number and left a message over a week ago -- no response.  Talk about a LAID BACK (read: lazy and uncaring) sales staff.
> 
> Katherine


I showed my husband the published prices and MF's for this place at Heritage Place and we had good laugh. Even if have the money to buy outright, there's no way to justify those maintenance fees. OMG! Same with the fractional Ritz Carlton in SF that I went and toured at 690 Market St. 

Just finished helping get my husband out of a fractional ownership condo he owned before we married with another investor and ended up in year long legal battle to get it divided and sold (other owner not paying his share of bills, etc). Would never own one of those! Fractionals are riskier as all it takes is a few owners not paying bills to cause high legal costs for other owners who have to take on the burden. That happened to us and we had to sue to get our money back...not good but we had a successful settlement in the end which meant we got about 50% of our money back. In the legal world, that is success, but my perspective sees a 50% loss. 

Also consider Worldmark points as the Worldmark timeshare in SF is not bad and is in great location, and closer to SF shopping, 5 star restaurants, etc. and Worldmark points have more flexibility. 

Check out the Registry - you can trade into the Heritage Place fractional this way using a DVC ownership. I would either trade into or rent at Heritage Place...just my opinion. Renting there is far cheaper than the maintenance fees, and the current investors are all losing money.

http://www.theregistrycollection.com/registry_portfolio/


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## Kagehitokiri2 (May 8, 2011)

RC isnt more expensive?

fairmont has the 2 weeks at hotels, not points like RC. plus upgrades.

and *Jasmine658*, sounds like youre talking about shared ownership with individuals, not a residence club..?


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## NeilGoBlue (May 8, 2011)

I just got back from the Ritz Residences at 690 Market St.

It was incredible.  I also thought the yearly dues for a full residence was fair, given the service that you receive.  I don't know much about the fractionals.


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## Kagehitokiri2 (May 8, 2011)

RC is indeed much more expensive than fairmont in terms of fees.


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## NeilGoBlue (May 8, 2011)

Yes..

The RCDC service is the best I've ever seen.  Structurally, they are just set up better than all other clubs.  Valet, doormen, concierges, on site, 24 hours a day... You pass them every time you exit/enter the club... I could go on and on..


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## Jasmine658 (May 8, 2011)

*Nope...*



Kagehitokiri2 said:


> and *Jasmine658*, sounds like youre talking about shared ownership with individuals, not a residence club..?



Nope, it was a Sirkin agreement, a fixed fractional with set percentages, not shared ownership. A residence club like Heritage Place is a fractional, just the same, but managed by 3rd party and more costly due to staffing mostly.

Sirkin is the most well known attorney for preparing agreements for residence club, fractional interest and TICs in the bay area. These agreements are easy to get into and are easy attractive due to being more affordable, but was so HARD to get out of and there were loopholes galore, and oversights too. For instance in our fractional - no heirs of any party were allowed to manage or rent out their interests. So if all parties died, what was to happen...nothing stated. Also nothing stated about other fractional owners that didn't pay their bills, and other owners stuck paying for them...another oversight. Just the option of mediation then arbitration. It also outlined who had the first right of refusal - using a coin flip!

Anyway, easy to get into trouble signing one of these, very HARD to get out of a fractional interest without a significant financial loss is what we learned the hard way.


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## Kagehitokiri2 (May 8, 2011)

you cant compare private shared ownership (whatever you choose to call it) with a residence club by hotel operator etc.


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## Jasmine658 (May 8, 2011)

*A fractional is a fractional - all the same*



Kagehitokiri2 said:


> you cant compare private shared ownership (whatever you choose to call it) with a residence club by hotel operator etc.
> 
> Oh, yes you can. I also had a friend who bought into one of those respectable long established beach hotels with a fractional interest and invested $150,000 a few years back. She was assured that if she didn't use her time there for her own vacations, that the management could easily rent it and cover her cost. She bought it primarily for investment purposes, and not to use for herself as the broker had said the value was only to go up and she would make a lot in rent.
> 
> ...


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## NeilGoBlue (May 8, 2011)

Kagehitokiri2 said:


> you cant compare private shared ownership (whatever you choose to call it) with a residence club by hotel operator etc.
> 
> *NeilGoBlue*, imagine if the service was even better. i dont understand why there arent more hotel properties in destination clubs. (DCs) also, the banyan tree private collection works better than RC "DC."
> 
> its also interesting fairmont fractionals have some DC-style use.



There were certainly some downsides too.. But not the service...


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## TarheelTraveler (May 9, 2011)

Jasmine658 said:


> Kagehitokiri2 said:
> 
> 
> > you cant compare private shared ownership (whatever you choose to call it) with a residence club by hotel operator etc.
> ...


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