# Critical Max Info



## HuskerATL (Oct 28, 2022)

So,  I just got off the phone with HGV corporate and here is some info that I think all should be aware of before joining Max:

If you own retail and resale and then join Max, your Max eligible points (retail/developer) will go into a Max account and your resale will stay in your HGVClub Legacy account so two different accounts and buckets of points. I asked if you will then have to pay two club fees and he didn't know but is going to let me know. This is critical for elite eligible affiliate owners, such as Scotland, because those would not be in your Max account and you may lose your elite level if you own other retail weeks.  So, for example, you may be Elite Premier now but lose that status if some of your retail weeks were pulled into Max.  And in Max, your status would be lower since it would only count the retail/developer weeks.
If you buy a resale after in Max, you will get a new account for them so they won't be with your Max points or account.  If you had resale before Max, join Max, and then buy another resale, then they will be added into that account with the other resale.
They offered to upgrade our Blvd to a retail so that we could join Max but they could not do anything with the Scotland resale. They are not upgradable so would remain in your HGVClub Legacy account
The Legacy Search request tool will allow you to search for available weeks and book at the 10 month mark if they are available.  I asked for this in writing but didn't get the language that really spelled this out. According to him, it will book before the 9 month window if it is available.  I asked how they can do that and not have a conflict with homeweeks and he told me that resort owners will need to book homeweeks before the 10  month window to have that guarantee of a week.  I still don't buy this but maybe. I am not sure how a Max Preferred Plus person could take weeks away from owners using homeweek.
The ala carte option may open later this year but he did not have information about it.  He did say that with that option, resale would definitely be parsed out from retail so the best option is to upgrade resales so that they go in the same bucket in Max.
He said that the Embarc properties will be HGVC and available to the HGVClub Legacy members.  They will be available to Max member the same as the other HGVC properties but will be in HGVC.
He, of course, said that all retail/developer properties are going up November 1st so better buy before then.
New retail owners will only go in Max. There isn't an option to join HGVClub Legacy.  I guess the only way for a new member to join HGVClub Legacy would be to buy resale.
HGVC is staying with deeds but DRI will continue with points.
For the Legacy Search Tool, he said that the number of searches is based on Tier level and that is for simultaneous searches so a Premier + person can have 5 searches going at one time but it doesn't mean that you only get 5 per year.
If it is true that the Legacy Search Tool can book before the 9  month window, then everyone Max preferred or higher could book Ocean Oak prime weeks before Ocean Oak owners if they don't book by the 10 month window.  I am still not convinced of this.
They are moving to Quintess versus Villas of Distinction
For Elite going into Max, you don't get both benefits.  I have been told that by the sales person at Tuscany that an Elite Premier person going to Premier + would get both benefits but the corporate person said no.  I am not sure what would happen if you had enough retail to be Premier + in Max and enough elite eligible resale to be Elite Premier. Maybe you would retain the level in each account. EP in HGVClub Legacy and Premier + in Max but they definitely would not combine benefits like the sales person said at Tuscany.

Here are the Premier + benefits that he sent me, that we would not qualify for since our Craigendarroch would not qualify for Max.

Five complimentary guest certificates.
Redeem points at $.30 per point towards air, cruise, and travel through exclusive partnerships.
Diamond Hilton Honors for life.
Transportation credit of $250 per year to/from the airport/resort. Hilton Grand Vacations - Lyft Pass Benefit For Elite Premier
Priority check-in at all HGV and Diamond resorts through Max.
Annual $700 open season credit.
Redeem points at $.30 per point towards air, cruise, and travel through exclusive partnerships.
Five loyalty search requests per year for accommodations using region, date or date range, accommodation or type, season, etc. Reservation is fulfilled one search is satisfied. Up to 10 months prior to arrival.
Zero fees to save points into the following year.
No transaction fees to convert points to Hilton Honors, RCI or In/Out of Network.
$100 per year resort credit.


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## drucifer (Oct 28, 2022)

HuskerATL said:


> If you buy a resale after in Max, you will get a new account for them so they won't be with you Max points or account.  If you had resale before Max, then they will be added into that account with the other resale.



This is pretty bad and really just blows up my plan.

1. I bought retail because I thought it was better pricing than I had previously seen, not knowing at the time, that a 2022 point was worth 60% of a 2021 point. While I still did substantially better than any of the deals I've seen rescinded, I didn't do anywhere near as well as I thought...

2. but hey, at least my account is in HGVMax, so when I add the future resale deeds to it, it will be in the "Max bucket." Now, this.

I don't want two buckets. If I were going to be OK with two buckets, then I would just buy Diamond resale and HGV resale and have two buckets that way. At least then, I'd have a 10-month and 9-month window. If it comes to pass that I have two accounts, now I wonder if I can pull my retail deed out of max and back to legacy, or if I should sell my one retail deed after I buy 3-4 resale deeds.

It's shaping up to look like in a few short months, HGVC has stripped away the reasons I had to justify buying a developer deed.


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## holdaer (Oct 28, 2022)

@HuskerATL 

Thank you for the info.  Reading your update has me wondering how borrowing points will work if one property is with HGVC legacy and the other property is in Max.

For example, do you know if booking a reservation with HGVC legacy property and you need more points, will the system pull from the property in Max or will it pull from next year’s points of the HGVC legacy property?

I’m wondering if having properties split between two systems will reduce the number of available points to use before borrowing next year’s points?

Does my question make any sense?  It sounds good in my head.


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## HuskerATL (Oct 28, 2022)

drucifer said:


> This is pretty bad and really just blows up my plan.
> 
> 1. I bought retail because I thought it was better pricing than I had previously seen, not knowing at the time, that a 2022 point was worth 60% of a 2021 point. While I still did substantially better than any of the deals I've seen rescinded, I didn't do anywhere near as well as I thought...
> 
> ...


I went round and round with him on this asking it different ways to make sure he told me the same story. The same with the legacy search request allowing booking before the 9 month more.  I told him that is really concerning for owners of high demand resorts.  

I also told him that they needed to be very clear with owners about this because I have heard stories from folks who have resale and retail but didn't understand that their resale are going to be parsed out to a separate account. Actually, the resale will stay in the existing HGVC account and the Max points will be parsed out into a new Max account.


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## HuskerATL (Oct 28, 2022)

holdaer said:


> @HuskerATL
> 
> Thank you for the info.  Reading your update has me wondering how borrowing points will work if one property is with HGVC legacy and the other property is in Max.
> 
> ...


When I questioned him about this, not exactly that but similar, he told me that they will be two completely separate accounts running independently so you can't borrow from the other.  You have one account to book in HGVC and another account to book in Max.


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## pinetree1 (Oct 28, 2022)

Does current Elite Premier offer any free guest certificate? 

It looks like that only major difference between current Elite Premier vs Max Premier +  are $700 open season credit and $100 resort credit. Worth cost to be Premier +?


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## dayooper (Oct 28, 2022)

HuskerATL said:


> The Legacy Search request tool will allow you to search for available weeks and book at the 10 month mark if they are available. I ask for this in writing but didn't get the language that really spelled this out. According to him, it will book before the 9 month window if it is available. I asked how they can do that and not have a conflict with homeweeks and he told me that resort owners will need to book homeweeks before the 10 month window to have that guarantee of a week. I still don't buy this but maybe. I am not sure how a Max Preferred Plus person could take weeks away from owners using homeweek.



If the deeds say 9 -12 month booking window, they won't be able to do this. If it's just spelled out in the club rules, they can change that and screw existing owners. Why would I spend that much money on something they can just change in an instant to make more sales.

HGVC must really be hurting for this to be added. The call on Nov 9 might be telling.


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## HuskerATL (Oct 28, 2022)

pinetree1 said:


> Does current Elite Premier offer any free guest certificate?


unlimited free guest certs.



pinetree1 said:


> t looks like that only major difference between current Elite Premier vs Max Premier + are $700 open season credit and $100 resort credit


Each person would need to weigh the OS use. For someone who used it often, the 30% discount may save them more than $700/year.   The $100 credit would be nice though.  He did say that the OS credit works just like a credit and the cost is just deducted when you book.


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## HuskerATL (Oct 28, 2022)

dayooper said:


> If the deeds say 9 -12 month booking window, they won't be able to do this. If it's just spelled out in the club rules, they can change that and screw existing owners. Why would I spend that much money on something they can just change in an instant to make more sales.


I quizzed him over and over again. Gave the Ocean Oak example twice and he stuck to his story.  He said that he is from corporate, not a sales office, has been fully trained on Max, and on a recorded line...he said that twice to me and asked if I didn't believe him.  I told him that I want it in writing so he sent me those other bullets which didn't answer my question.  I told  him that I didn't think it is possible for a non-owner to take an owners homeweek.  We will see when it is actually in use.


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## fys (Oct 28, 2022)

The same with the legacy search request allowing booking before the 9 month more.  I told him that is really concerning for owners of high demand resorts. 

There is a short window between the day the exclusive home week booking window ends and the club window opens. I would conjecture this is the period HGVC will use to fill these on going searches.

The exclusive home week booking window ends 279 days in advance of CHECK IN date. The club season priority window ends 279 days in advance of the CHECK OUT date. Since club season has a minimum 3 night stay, HGVC has this small window to fulfill the ongoing searches without affecting the entitlements of either window.


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## HuskerATL (Oct 28, 2022)

One point that he did make which is very interesting is that it will do away with midnight reservations.  You put your search in and it will book automatically before others can get it and if you are centum or premier +, you will be almost guaranteed that open reservation before others can get it.  This doesn't align to the MAX FAQs though which say that Max member get a 6 month booking window.


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## fys (Oct 28, 2022)

fys said:


> The same with the legacy search request allowing booking before the 9 month more.  I told him that is really concerning for owners of high demand resorts.
> 
> There is a short window between the day the exclusive home week booking window ends and the club window opens. I would conjecture this is the period HGVC will use to fill these on going searches.
> 
> The exclusive home week booking window ends 279 days in advance of CHECK IN date. The club season priority window ends 279 days in advance of the CHECK OUT date. Since club season has a minimum 3 night stay, HGVC has this small window to fulfill the ongoing searches without affecting the entitlements of either window.



That should read "The club season priority window STARTS 279 days"


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## HuskerATL (Oct 28, 2022)

fys said:


> There is a short window between the day the exclusive home week booking window ends and the club window opens. I would conjecture this is the period HGVC will use to fill these on going searches.


I asked him a similar question and commented that I really thought folks could enter a search but it would not fill until the 9 month or 6 month mark but he adamantly stated that it could book up to the 10 month mark if it is available.  But, again, I am not convinced of this and agree with Dayooper.  I guess that homeweeks that are canceled, if the are fixed weeks, or folks use their points so they can't use the homeweek, which would open up weeks.


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## HuskerATL (Oct 28, 2022)

This is what confuses me about the legacy search request and why I am still not convinced and why it maybe for 10 month bookings in HVC versus HGVC





__





						Hilton Grand Vacations - HGV Max FAQs
					

Hilton Grand Vacations is committed to the idea that life is incomplete without vacations. Our distinctive resort collection features luxurious accommodations in renowned destinations with the quality service that is synonymous with the Hilton name.




					club.hiltongrandvacations.com
				




*Will HGV Max impact availability for existing Club Members who do not buy in to the program?*
Your Home Week Reservation Window remains unchanged, and HGV Max will have no impact on your ability to reserve your Home Week. For Members with Home Resort or Hilton Club priority, there will also be no impact on a Member’s ability to make reservations during these reservation windows. HGV Max reservations can only be made after the Club reservation window and starting six months or less before the check-out date.


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## 1Kflyerguy (Oct 28, 2022)

I was interesting in joining Max, but seem like it gets less appealing every week..


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## dayooper (Oct 28, 2022)

HuskerATL said:


> He said that the Embarc properties will be HGVC and available to the HGVClub Legacy members. They will be available to Max member the same as the other HGVC properties but will be in HGVC.



This flies directly into the face of what an existing Embarc board member has reported. The board member says it will only be available in Max.

Not believing this rep until this is in writing and is actively working.


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## HuskerATL (Oct 28, 2022)

dayooper said:


> This flies directly into the face of what an existing Embarc board member has reported. The board member says it will only be available in Max.


And I brought up that discussion as well.  He stuck to his story and told me that he has worked at corporate since 1997....so knows....we will see.


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## fys (Oct 28, 2022)

dayooper said:


> If the deeds say 9 -12 month booking window, they won't be able to do this. If it's just spelled out in the club rules, they can change that and screw existing owners. Why would I spend that much money on something they can just change in an instant to make more sales.
> 
> HGVC must really be hurting for this to be added. The call on Nov 9 might be telling.



Home week / club season is spelled out on the HGVClub disclosure statement not the deed - which could conceivably be changed at any time by HGVC.


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## escanoe (Oct 28, 2022)

I am sorry, but it sounds like all of this info came from a sales weasel versus someone shooting straight about the program. I am at the point I will wait, see that they do, and believe that. I simply don’t believe what they say anymore on Max — especially if it is not in writing.


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## pedro47 (Oct 28, 2022)

HuskerATL said:


> So,  I just got off the phone with HGV corporate and here is some info that I think all should be aware of before joining Max:
> 
> If you own retail and resale and then join Max, your Max eligible points (retail/developer) will go into a Max account and your resale will stay in your HGVClub Legacy account so two different accounts and buckets of points. I asked if you will then have to pay two club fees and he didn't know but is going to let me know. This is critical for elite eligible affiliate owners, such as Scotland, because those would not be in your Max account and you may lose your elite level if you own other retail weeks.  So, for example, you may be Elite Premier now but lose that status if some of your retail weeks were pulled into Max.  And in Max, your status would be lower since it would only count the retail/developer weeks.
> If you buy a resale after in Max, you will get a new account for them so they won't be with your Max points or account.  If you had resale before Max, join Max, and then buy another resale, then they will be added into that account with the other resale.
> ...


THANKS. for sharing your very informative conservation.


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## GT75 (Oct 28, 2022)

escanoe said:


> I am sorry, but it sounds like all of this info came from a sales weasel versus someone shooting straight about the program. I am at the point I will wait, see that they do, and believe that. I simply don’t believe what they say anymore on Max — especially if it is not in writing.


I agree with your statement but see no reason to be sorry about it.    I am not sorry.


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## GT75 (Oct 28, 2022)

Maybe if you *join Max*, you are also giving up your HW advantage (or you will need to book between 10-12 months).   I figure that I am allowed to just throw out opinions like HGVMax trained sales w/o any documentation.

edited to add the following from the updated HGVC Max Disclosure Statement 2022:

Home Week reservations are consecutive night reservations at the Home Resort in the season and unit type owned, for the number of days owned, checking in on the resort’s standard or available check-in day (“Home Week”). Members have a priority reservation period to reserve their Home Week during the “Home Week Priority Reservation Window” *without competing for such reservation with other Members other than those owning the same Suite configuration and season at the same resort.* This window lasts approximately ninety (90) days beginning one (1) year (365 days) prior to the desired check-in date and ending nine (9) months (276 days) in advance of the desired check-in date.

Note: I added the bold highlighting.


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## MattnTricia (Oct 28, 2022)

HuskerATL said:


> And I brought up that discussion as well.  He stuck to his story and told me that he has worked at corporate since 1997....so knows....we will see.



Thanks Husker - this is very informative and probably pretty close to the truth. I still can't believe we are basically in to November and still have no clue how this program works.


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## PigsDad (Oct 28, 2022)

dayooper said:


> This flies directly into the face of what an existing Embarc board member has reported. The board member says it will only be available in Max.
> 
> Not believing this rep until this is in writing and is actively working.


Actually, this makes more sense than what that board member was saying, IMO.  Ask yourself this: Why would they re-brand the Embarc properties to HGVC if they were not planning on treating them like HGVC properties?  And I know that board member was adamant about how treating Embarc as a HGVC property would never work with regard to booking, but effectively that is _exactly _what we used to be able to do back when we had cross-booking capabilities with Club Intrawest (the old Embarc).  It worked then; it can work now.

But of course, anything is still possible and we will just have to wait to see what gets implemented.

Kurt


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## escanoe (Oct 28, 2022)

I admit I have tuned some of this Max stuff out due to frustration recently. Don’t we have some TUGers using Max at this point for which part of their ownership is resale? Are they having to work out of 2 different accounts?

I appreciate the effort in this thread, but I am just not able to assign much credibility to the gentleman that talked to @HuskerATL.


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## Eric B (Oct 29, 2022)

Interesting story from the corporate fellow. I upgraded a couple of resale bHC weeks to a retail bHC week earlier this year and am in Max because of that. I also own a different resale week. All of those points are in the same account for me and the account shows as being an HGV Max account. I started through the booking process for an HGV Max reservation for next year and the only eligible points it showed were my saved bHC points and the ones from my bHC retail ownership - my resale HGVC ownership is an EOYE week, though, and the system doesn't let me borrow points from that even for an HGVC reservation. I would conclude that what the corporate fellow had to say does not match how the system is currently working. My experience is that after having done what I did resulting in a mixed account, the result remains a single account with separate buckets of points - 1 bucket of bHC points that are eligible for Max and 1 bucket of HGVC points that I haven't been able to test to see if they are eligible for Max.

There doesn't appear to be any separate indication on the points management dashboard regarding whether the points are eligible for Max in any case, so I suspect that my resale points will be when I try them. I'm contemplating picking up another resale week, so I could see them setting it up as a separate account to avoid giving those points Max eligibility if they really want to - it wouldn't bother me at all if that happened as there are very few of the new resorts that hold any interest for me. The only downside for that would be the possibility of winding up with duplicate membership fees - the club rules don't seem to squarely address that possibility and it would seem quite inequitable if they don't credit the payment of the higher HGV Max fees for a resale ownership's fees.

Edited to add: when I upgraded and got into HGV Max, I was billed $88 to cover the difference between Club dues as an HGV member owning in the US ($193) and the HGV Max Club dues ($281). That would indicate to me that it's a single set of club dues and just separate point buckets or they made my resale HGVC points Max eligible. Time will tell, of course.


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## HuskerATL (Oct 29, 2022)

Eric B said:


> Edited to add: when I upgraded and got into HGV Max, I was billed $88 to cover the difference between Club dues as an HGV member owning in the US ($193) and the HGV Max Club dues ($281). That would indicate to me that it's a single set of club dues and just separate point buckets or they made my resale HGVC points Max eligible. Time will tell, of course.


I have heard this from others as well.  I wonder if he is confusing a new member joining and going straight into Max, since he said that all new members are Max no matter what, and an existing member who has both retail and resale already.  I could see a new member who only has Max weeks who then buys a resale potentially getting a separate account but I would be surprised if an existing member would. I asked that question though in different ways and kept the same story.  I asked about existing owner upgrading to Max, new member adding resale, existing member with a mix then joining Max and then buying more resale, etc.  He was probably pretty tired of my questions by the end of the long call.


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## Talent312 (Oct 29, 2022)

I find this Max-confusion rather amusing. That's becuz
I will never turn to the Max-side...
Once you start down that path, forever it will dominate your destiny.
.


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## escanoe (Oct 29, 2022)

HuskerATL said:


> I wonder if he is confusing a new member joining and going straight into Max, since he said that all new members are Max no matter what, and an existing member who has both retail and resale already.



@HuskerATL, the best takeaway you could draw from this is "the corporate fellow" as @Ericb called him at HGVC was trying to sell you something and provided exactly no useful, reliable information as to how HGV Max would work. If parts of it happened to be true, how in the heck could you distinguish it from the parts that are obviously not?


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## SmithOp (Oct 29, 2022)

@Eric B why would you convert bHC points to Max, when you admit the new resorts hold little interest? It seems like you got caught up in the early Max hype.

I looked over the list of resorts posted in the other thread and it's of little interest to me living in SoCal. I don't anticipate traveling east further than SW states (drive able), and I would rather rent cash stays. The only air travel I enjoy now is to HI, but I do enjoy road trips.

Sent from my Lenovo 10e using Tapatalk


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## dioxide45 (Oct 29, 2022)

PigsDad said:


> Actually, this makes more sense than what that board member was saying, IMO.  Ask yourself this: Why would they re-brand the Embarc properties to HGVC if they were not planning on treating them like HGVC properties?  And I know that board member was adamant about how treating Embarc as a HGVC property would never work with regard to booking, but effectively that is _exactly _what we used to be able to do back when we had cross-booking capabilities with Club Intrawest (the old Embarc).  It worked then; it can work now.
> 
> But of course, anything is still possible and we will just have to wait to see what gets implemented.
> 
> Kurt


THe rebrand could simply be so they can offer up unsold inventory for rent on Hilton.com as someone noted in another thread about Sandestin. Nothing more. I think it has been mentioned before why it may not work now where it did in the past. We don't really know the source of inventory in the past. Was it unsold inventory? If so, there may simply not be that much unsold Embarc inventory to make the system fluid and why offer it up for free to HGVC members when they can rent it on Hilton.com?


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## dayooper (Oct 29, 2022)

PigsDad said:


> Actually, this makes more sense than what that board member was saying, IMO.  Ask yourself this: Why would they re-brand the Embarc properties to HGVC if they were not planning on treating them like HGVC properties?  And I know that board member was adamant about how treating Embarc as a HGVC property would never work with regard to booking, but effectively that is _exactly _what we used to be able to do back when we had cross-booking capabilities with Club Intrawest (the old Embarc).  It worked then; it can work now.
> 
> But of course, anything is still possible and we will just have to wait to see what gets implemented.
> 
> Kurt



Eh, in the current state of HGV policies, they ain’t giving us anything for free. The simple reason for putting Embarc in HGVC is they can charge a higher rate for Hilton reservations. If someone, especially from Canada wants “access” to Embarc, this just might put them over the top. HGV is going to leverage as much as they can out of DRI and giving access to either side for free doesn’t follow what they have already done. Even if bookings are virtually impossible, it’s still marks they can put on a map when convincing someone they have to buy from HGV so they can get Max. 

On the flip side, I hope that we do get access to Embarc through HGVC for free. It would be awesome on many levels. I just don’t see it happening.


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## CalGalTraveler (Oct 29, 2022)

IMHO...I don't think anyone distinguishes the Hilton Grand Vacations brand on the Hilton site. P@P is now listed and charges just as much as a Westin or Hyatt at approx $500/night plus $40/night resort fee. For an unrenovated room!

I believe much of the HGVC resort pricing on Hilton.com are Hail Mary prices used as cannon fodder for sales presentations to make buyers believe they are saving a ton of money. I wonder how many people actually rent at these prices. It's like rack rates.


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## dioxide45 (Oct 29, 2022)

CalGalTraveler said:


> IMHO...I don't think anyone distinguishes the Hilton Grand Vacations brand on the Hilton site. P@P is now listed and charges just as much as a Westin or Hyatt at approx $500/night plus $40/night resort fee. For an unrenovated room!
> 
> I believe much of the HGVC resort pricing on Hilton.com are Hail Mary prices used as cannon fodder for sales presentations to make buyers believe they are saving a ton of money. I wonder how many people actually rent at these prices. It's like rack rates.


Given the significant revenue the timeshare companies all report in their quarterly earnings, someone must be paying those prices.


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## dayooper (Oct 29, 2022)

CalGalTraveler said:


> IMHO...I don't think anyone distinguishes the Hilton Grand Vacations brand on the Hilton site. P@P is now listed and charges just as much as a Westin or Hyatt at approx $500/night plus $40/night resort fee. For an unrenovated room!
> 
> I believe much of the HGVC resort pricing on Hilton.com are Hail Mary prices used as cannon fodder for sales presentations to make buyers believe they are saving a ton of money. I wonder how many people actually rent at these prices. It's like rack rates.



It’s an agreement with Hilton and HGVC. Just like Chicago was supposed to be a Hilton Club property but Hilton Hotels didn’t put a high enough valuation on it to become a bHC property, The Embarc properties have a high enough valuation to become HGVC. Hawaii is just a different animal, but I’m not sure that Hilton really cares what Westin charges. The brand loyalty to Hilton with the HHonors system will lead people rent from Hilton. We don’t really travel enough to make a difference but we always check Hiltons (and usually book) before we check anywhere else.  

I go back to the summer of 2020 when we went to Vegas. Our 3 bedroom at Elara (gold M-Sat stay) was $8800 on the Hilton app. That was 1 month before checkin and it eventually rented!


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## CalGalTraveler (Oct 29, 2022)

dayooper said:


> I go back to the summer of 2020 when we went to Vegas. Our 3 bedroom at Elara (gold M-Sat stay) was $8800 on the Hilton app. That was 1 month before checkin and it eventually rented!



What you say is quite possible but It is also possible they sent it to a 3rd party aggregator like Priceline or reduced the prices to fill it .  Renters may have also used Honors points. Do you know what it rented for points-wise?


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## HuskerATL (Oct 29, 2022)

Eric B said:


> Interesting story from the corporate fellow. I upgraded a couple of resale bHC weeks to a retail bHC week earlier this year and am in Max because of that. I also own a different resale week. All of those points are in the same account for me and the account shows as being an HGV Max account. I started through the booking process for an HGV Max reservation for next year and the only eligible points it showed were my saved bHC points and the ones from my bHC retail ownership - my resale HGVC ownership is an EOYE week, though, and the system doesn't let me borrow points from that even for an HGVC reservation. I would conclude that what the corporate fellow had to say does not match how the system is currently working. My experience is that after having done what I did resulting in a mixed account, the result remains a single account with separate buckets of points - 1 bucket of bHC points that are eligible for Max and 1 bucket of HGVC points that I haven't been able to test to see if they are eligible for Max.
> 
> There doesn't appear to be any separate indication on the points management dashboard regarding whether the points are eligible for Max in any case, so I suspect that my resale points will be when I try them. I'm contemplating picking up another resale week, so I could see them setting it up as a separate account to avoid giving those points Max eligibility if they really want to - it wouldn't bother me at all if that happened as there are very few of the new resorts that hold any interest for me. The only downside for that would be the possibility of winding up with duplicate membership fees - the club rules don't seem to squarely address that possibility and it would seem quite inequitable if they don't credit the payment of the higher HGV Max fees for a resale ownership's fees.
> 
> Edited to add: when I upgraded and got into HGV Max, I was billed $88 to cover the difference between Club dues as an HGV member owning in the US ($193) and the HGV Max Club dues ($281). That would indicate to me that it's a single set of club dues and just separate point buckets or they made my resale HGVC points Max eligible. Time will tell, of course.


I sent a summary of your example to the corporate person to see what he says and here is his response: 
he must have made the upgrade before the recent change. I did one for an owner last month in New York and he is all in one account. The change in the process is a more recent.


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## dayooper (Oct 29, 2022)

CalGalTraveler said:


> What you say is quite possible but It is also possible they sent it to a 3rd party aggregator like Priceline to fill it.  Renters may have also used Honors points. Do you know what it rented for points-wise?



No, I don’t and it may have been a deal or even broken up into smaller pieces. My guess is no one paid full price for all 5 nights. I just know they were asking.

IIRC, a year ago when they told the Embarc owners they would be branded HGVC, it was Hilton Hotels that made that valuation. I believe it’s to the benefit of HGV that the Embarc system be branded HGVC. How that affects us I really haven’t a clue.


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## Eric B (Oct 29, 2022)

SmithOp said:


> @Eric B why would you convert bHC points to Max, when you admit the new resorts hold little interest? It seems like you got caught up in the early Max hype.
> 
> I looked over the list of resorts posted in the other thread and it's of little interest to me living in SoCal. I don't anticipate traveling east further than SW states (drive able), and I would rather rent cash stays. The only air travel I enjoy now is to HI, but I do enjoy road trips.
> 
> Sent from my Lenovo 10e using Tapatalk



Got a good price on a Studio Penthouse at The Quin. Max came with it and I might use that for a couple of resorts, but not many are of interest, as I said. YMMV - don’t think those Studio Penthouses will ever show up resale.


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## HuskerATL (Oct 29, 2022)

Eric B said:


> Got a good price on a Studio Penthouse at The Quin. Max came with it and I might use that for a couple of resorts, but not many are of interest, as I said. YMMV - don’t think those Studio Penthouses will ever show up resale.


Did you do this a while ago like the corporate person suggested?


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## Eric B (Oct 29, 2022)

HuskerATL said:


> Did you do this a while ago like the corporate person suggested?


Nope


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## Smclaugh99 (Oct 29, 2022)

Eric B said:


> Got a good price on a Studio Penthouse at The Quin. Max came with it and I might use that for a couple of resorts, but not many are of interest, as I said. YMMV - don’t think those Studio Penthouses will ever show up resale.



Good for you. I agree, The Quin penthouse resales will be hard to find in the future. If you don’t mind, could you break down what your bHC trade in was (and the equity they gave) and what new money was required? 

I did a similar swap into the Quin last October, trading back gold W57 and The Residences deeds (both resales from eBay) and got $90k equity for a Studio Premier Plus ($120k retail). Given that the resales were pretty cheap, my new money of $30k was worth making the switch - getting into The Quin, having more points with better MF, and it got me to Elite Premier.  

I love to see other NY owners who use resale to hybridize ownership and save some $$$!

Sean


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## Eric B (Oct 29, 2022)

Smclaugh99 said:


> Good for you. I agree, The Quin penthouse resales will be hard to find in the future. If you don’t mind, could you break down what your bHC trade in was (and the equity they gave) and what new money was required?
> 
> I did a similar swap into the Quin last October, trading back gold W57 and The Residences deeds (both resales from eBay) and got $90k equity for a Studio Premier Plus ($120k retail). Given that the resales were pretty cheap, my new money of $30k was worth making the switch - getting into The Quin, having more points with better MF, and it got me to Elite Premier.
> 
> ...



Traded in a gold W 57th and a gold The District for about the same; picked up a platinum week on 6th Ave with a large terrace that we’re more likely to use for a bit more ($145k retail). Max Elite Premier Plus with 23,040 bHC for $2,140 MF. The penthouses are all fixed week fixed unit - the one on 57th with a terrace is an accessible according to the offering statement.

We’re heading back up for the Macy’s parade in a studio premier plus, hoping to get one on 6th. Looks to me like all the 1 BR units are on that side, but there wasn’t availability.

Edited to add: they said the minimum new money to trade in resale weeks was $25k.


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## Smclaugh99 (Oct 29, 2022)

Eric B said:


> Traded in a gold W 57th and a gold The District for about the same; picked up a platinum week on 6th Ave with a large terrace that we’re more likely to use for a bit more ($145k retail). Max Elite Premier Plus with 23,040 bHC for $2,140 MF. The penthouses are all fixed week fixed unit - the one on 57th with a terrace is an accessible according to the offering statement.
> 
> We’re heading back up for the Macy’s parade in a studio premier plus, hoping to get one on 6th. Looks to me like all the 1 BR units are on that side, but there wasn’t availability.
> 
> Edited to add: they said the minimum new money to trade in resale weeks was $25k.



That’s awesome. When did you do this? I did an owners update 2 weeks ago in New York and the sales person said they were just starting to release the Quin penthouses for sale.  He tried to take back one of my W57 STP for another Studio premier plus at the Quin or a unit at The Central. New money was $30k for one, $70k for the other. Politely said “no thanks”. I have three platinum W57 weeks with two on one deed (resale on EBay) that I would not mind swapping to get Quin penthouse. I did get $300 VISA gift card, which was worth the hour. 

As an aside, the sales person did mention bHC cross ownership, and how points can be used across the bHC properties if you own at multiple ones, which is something we’ve already proven to be correct. But rather than a loophole he said it is a feature that is purposeful and here to stay. 

Sean


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## Eric B (Oct 29, 2022)

It was a couple of months ago.


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## TravelinZiggy (Oct 30, 2022)

HuskerATL said:


> When I questioned him about this, not exactly that but similar, he told me that they will be two completely separate accounts running independently so you can't borrow from the other.  You have one account to book in HGVC and another account to book in Max.


And then this becomes the same scenario as Bonus points and club points - can't mix the two.  What a mess this will be for those with both types of properties (HGVC Legacy and MAX)


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## TravelinZiggy (Oct 30, 2022)

fys said:


> That should read "The club season priority window STARTS 279 days"


Doesn't it actually start at 279 days from the check out date?


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## Eric B (Oct 30, 2022)

TravelinZiggy said:


> And then this becomes the same scenario as Bonus points and club points - can't mix the two.  What a mess this will be for those with both types of properties (HGVC Legacy and MAX)



The separate bonus point bucket is a short term issue for someone that buys retail. There were already different buckets of points with different functions in HGVC due to the separate Hilton Club ownerships and the "by Hilton Club" (bHC) ownerships. They're all fairly manageable, though. What the corporate fellow (who also seems to be a salesman in NY) seemed to be implying is that there would be separate accounts similar to how the Hilton Club works for legacy and Max ownerships and new resale purchases would be segregated into a new legacy account. I don't see how they would do that under the current rules, but they own the rules after all.

One thing that will be interesting to explore is if an how they will deal with transferring points from one account to another. My understanding is that they would do that for someone that was giving points to someone else (sales not being kosher) over a phone call with all parties, but the issue of Max eligibility will spring up if one account is Max and the other isn't. My speculation is that they would work with someone stuck with two accounts, if it does get set up that way, in order to allow the use of points from both accounts to make a reservation by overriding the system and adjusting point totals. They have the capability to do that to fix things when the system won't allow it as it's set up - I had to do that to mix some bHC and HGVC points last year to use up expiring ones for a combined reservation. It would only make sense from a customer service perspective as the rules don't really seem to prohibit that.


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## youppi (Oct 30, 2022)

TravelinZiggy said:


> Doesn't it actually start at 279 days from the check out date?


Yes it's checkout but it's 276 days


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## HuskerATL (Oct 30, 2022)

Eric B said:


> salesman in NY


Actually he is based in Orlando but regional offices, like Orlando, can sell for any resort.


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## HuskerATL (Oct 30, 2022)

Eric B said:


> giving points to someone else


How do you do that now?  I don't know a way for someone to give points to someone else.  You can transfer reservations but it isn't really transferring, the CS agent would cancel the reservation from the one person and then immediately book the other one.


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## Eric B (Oct 30, 2022)

HuskerATL said:


> How do you do that now?  I don't know a way for someone to give points to someone else.  You can transfer reservations but it isn't really transferring, the CS agent would cancel the reservation from the one person and then immediately book the other one.



Couldn't tell you - I've never tried it.  There was a thread on it no longer being a possibility a couple of months ago based on folks selling points in violation of the rules, but it's tough to imagine them thinking you're selling points to yourself....









						Transferring points between HGV members
					

With the recent club changes, has anyone successfully transferred points to their account from another member? I recall you could previously call HGV club on the phone and do such a transfer.  I don’t have any 2022 or 23 points and was looking to make another 2022 reservation with 15-20k points.




					tugbbs.com


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## HuskerATL (Oct 30, 2022)

Eric B said:


> Couldn't tell you - I've never tried it. There was a thread on it no longer being a possibility a couple of months ago based on folks selling points in violation of the rules, but it's tough to imagine them thinking you're selling points to yourself....


That option is gone.  People do book for others and charge for it, which is not allowed except homeweek. They wouldn't know you are "selling" points because your only option would be to book a stay and then get a guest cert.  I guess they could monitor guest cert use by owner to see anomalies then investigate but that would be a lot of work and probably not worth their time.


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## Zenichiro (Oct 30, 2022)

Do HGVC/Max get open season for HVC (DRI) properties? I don’t think they do from what I have seen. If true, then HVC/Max will not get open season for HGVC either.


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## HuskerATL (Oct 30, 2022)

Zenichiro said:


> Do HGVC/Max get open season for HVC (DRI) properties? I don’t think they do from what I have seen. If true, then HVC/Max will not get open season for HGVC either.


They do and get a credit for use.  The amount is by Tier level.


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## Zenichiro (Oct 30, 2022)

Yes the credit is for open season bookings but I don’t think the Max properties are available for open season is what I mean.


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## HuskerATL (Oct 30, 2022)

Zenichiro said:


> Yes the credit is for open season bookings but I don’t think the Max properties are available for open season is what I mean.



There would need to be properties available in Max to have a credit for their use.  There aren't Max properties. Max is just an exchange. There are bHC, HGVC, and HVC properties and those in Max can use OS to reserve....at least at some point they would but someone in Max can verify if they can now. There wouldn't be the credit for OS if it wasn't going to be available.


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## Zenichiro (Oct 30, 2022)

From what I was told there is availability at the under 30 day mark with HVC properties but you can only book with points. It could be because they have not established Open Season pricing for these yet but not sure.
As for ongoing search, I think that is only for Elite member tiers. Not available for members.


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## HuskerATL (Oct 30, 2022)

Zenichiro said:


> As for ongoing search, I think that is only for Elite member tiers. Not available for members.


There aren't elite in Max. There are just tiers by the number points with each level getting more of searches.


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## GT75 (Oct 30, 2022)

dayooper said:


> HGVC must really be hurting for this to be added. The call on Nov 9 might be telling.


I think that the upcoming investor call might be interesting also.   We should hear how many people are in the max program and if HGV is meeting its goal on upgrades.


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## Zenichiro (Oct 30, 2022)

HuskerATL said:


> There aren't elite in Max. There are just tiers by the number points with each level getting more of searches.
> 
> View attachment 67612
> 
> View attachment 67613


Your regular member does not get OS was my point. Nor an open season credit.


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## HuskerATL (Oct 30, 2022)

Zenichiro said:


> Your regular member does not get OS was my point. Nor an open season credit.


They will get OS but no credit but maybe it isn't implemented yet


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## atl (Oct 31, 2022)

HuskerATL said:


> There would need to be properties available in Max to have a credit for their use.  There aren't Max properties. Max is just an exchange. There are bHC, HGVC, and HVC properties and those in Max can use OS to reserve....at least at some point they would but someone in Max can verify if they can now. There wouldn't be the credit for OS if it wasn't going to be available.



I looked at some DRI properties available through Max (as a HGVC-side Max member), and although rooms are available, they are not currently eligible for Open Season bookings.


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## Zenichiro (Oct 31, 2022)

HuskerATL said:


> They will get OS but no credit but maybe it isn't implemented yet


If they are then they should have put a 1 on your tier chart. It looks like they put blank and started 1 with preferred


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## HuskerATL (Oct 31, 2022)

atl said:


> I looked at some DRI properties available through Max (as a HGVC-side Max member), and although rooms are available, they are not currently eligible for Open Season bookings.
> 
> View attachment 67630


Thanks.  I suspect that it is still be worked out. It wouldn't make sense for OS to part of Max and then not be available for all the properties available in Max.  I don't think the DRI Max folks have access to HGVC yet and from what I have  heard it will be early 2023 so maybe the fix will come with it.


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## HuskerATL (Oct 31, 2022)

Zenichiro said:


> If they are then they should have put a 1 on your tier chart. It looks like they put blank and started 1 with preferred


I think member in Max is just like Member in HGVC. They don't mention any discount for it but they have access to use it where Elite get 10% discount, Elite Plus get 20%, and Elite Premier get 30%.  I just don't think it is functioning yet for Max.


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## PigsDad (Oct 31, 2022)

Zenichiro said:


> If they are then they should have put a 1 on your tier chart. It looks like they put blank and started 1 with preferred


That tier chart just lists the Open Season _*credit*_, not the access to Open Season.  No credit doesn't mean no access to Open Season.  That would be consistent with how they list benefits for HGV Elite levels -- they list the OS discount percentage for each level of Elite, but all members have access to OS.

Kurt


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## Zenichiro (Oct 31, 2022)

PigsDad said:


> That tier chart just lists the Open Season _*credit*_, not the access to Open Season.  No credit doesn't mean no access to Open Season.  That would be consistent with how they list benefits for HGV Elite levels -- they list the OS discount percentage for each level of Elite, but all members have access to OS.
> 
> Kurt


Okay maybe I’m interpreting OS differently. I though OS was ongoing search as it lists Open Season separately from Loyality search request.


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## HuskerATL (Oct 31, 2022)

Zenichiro said:


> Okay maybe I’m interpreting OS differently. I though OS was ongoing search as it lists Open Season separately from Loyality search request.


OS is booking using cash within the next 30 days. OS is a different thing than the Loyalty Search request.  We are  not sure what the Loyalty search request will actually be but OS has been around pre-Max.


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## MattnTricia (Oct 31, 2022)

On a slightly separate note relate to Max:

I emailed HGVC's Senior Vice President of Sales  who I have spoke to once before over the weekend and asked about the Ala Carte option to enroll in Max without a new point purchase. 

I got no further details other than "That functionality is not in place yet."   

I was wondering if he was going to say that it wasn't going to happen but he did not. .....


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## HuskerATL (Oct 31, 2022)

MattnTricia said:


> On a slightly separate note relate to Max:
> 
> I emailed HGVC's Senior Vice President of Sales  who I have spoke to once before over the weekend and asked about the Ala Carte option to enroll in Max without a new point purchase.
> 
> ...


I think it will come out after December 6th...the Opt In deadline.  It is in the reference guide and the CEO said it would be available.  But, be careful, if you pay the $7k you may find out that only your retail go to Max and your resale do not count in the tiers plus may be in a different account so your level would drop from EP to some other non-equivalent Tier level and you could have two separate buckets of points.


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## rebels (Oct 31, 2022)

You say that the midnight reservation will go away.  Did he say when that is going to happen?  So does that mean that the reservation window will open at 8:00?


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## HuskerATL (Oct 31, 2022)

rebels said:


> You say that the midnight reservation will go away.  Did he say when that is going to happen?  So does that mean that the reservation window will open at 8:00?


not go away but would be much harder to do if folks can jump the line.


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## Huskerpaul (Oct 31, 2022)

So isn't a "loyalty seach" really just implementation of a wait list option for select folks?


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## dandjane1 (Oct 31, 2022)

*Asa a DRI owner new to Max, I was underwhelmed by the sales weasel's ballyhoo about the "over a million HH points you have"
when converted at the 16 to 1 rate. What a farce! It takes 10,000 HH points to obtain 1,000 airline miles. It takes a minimum of
120,000 miles (plus) for a R/T U.S. East Coast to Europe flight in Economy for 2 people, so basically, I can trade my entire year's MFs for 
a single R/T to Europe for 2. NOT anything a sane person would do! And another thing (buried in the June 2022 Club Rules) - 
Hilton can change the nightly points values of units at their whim! Nobody, including DRI sales weasels seems to know about this.
I couldn't get any response.*


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## HuskerATL (Oct 31, 2022)

Huskerpaul said:


> So isn't a "loyalty seach" really just implementation of a wait list option for select folks?


kind of. It is a search tool that is supposed to auto book when the week becomes available but the unknown part is when that window is.  The corporate guy says anytime within 10 months, other say that it can't before the 9 month window, and then there is the 6 month Max reservation window.  Also, there have been discussions that it may not even be a search tool for HGVC properties but for HVC properties since it already exists in HVC and aligns to their booking window.

From the DRI reference guide and the DRI Max guide:


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## Huskerpaul (Oct 31, 2022)

HuskerATL said:


> Also, there have been discussions that it may not even be a search tool for HGVC properties but for HVC properties since it already exists in HVC and aligns to their booking window.


This makes sense to me.


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## HuskerATL (Nov 1, 2022)

Here is the HGV explanation of the Loyalty Search Request Tool.

A HGVC Max person can put a request in up to 10 months out for HGVC properties but it will not book until the 9 month mark but will automatically book when the week is available at that point or after based on Max Tier level priority.  A HGVC Max person using the tool will only be able to book at the 6 month mark in DRI and vice versa.  So a DRI Max person won't be able to book HGVC at 9 months, only at the 6 month mark. So they can put the request in but it wouldn't fill until the 6 month mark.


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## drucifer (Nov 1, 2022)

HuskerATL said:


> Here is the HGV explanation of the Loyalty Search Request Tool.
> 
> A HGVC Max person can put a request in up to 10 months out for HGVC properties but it will not book until the 9 month mark but will automatically book when the week is available at that point or after based on Max Tier level priority.  A HGVC Max person using the tool will only be able to book at the 6 month mark in DRI and vice versa.  So a DRI Max person won't be able to book HGVC at 9 months, only at the 6 month mark. So they can put the request in but it wouldn't fill until the 6 month mark.



So the tool stays up until midnight for you and probably is faster on the keyboard than you are too.


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## escanoe (Nov 1, 2022)

yeah. but if someone is trying to book a week that way, someone else walking a reservation could beat them. we still don’t know if it will beat walking or not. perpetually setting one to book 3 days might give a user an advantage over others trying to start walking a vacation.



drucifer said:


> So the tool stays up until midnight for you and probably is faster on the keyboard than you are too.


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## drucifer (Nov 1, 2022)

escanoe said:


> yeah. but if someone is trying to book a week that way, someone else walking a reservation could beat them. we still don’t know if it will beat walking or not. perpetually setting one to book 3 days might give a user over others trying to start walking a vacation.



Maybe the tool has (or will have) a new "auto-walk" feature.


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## HuskerATL (Nov 1, 2022)

drucifer said:


> So the tool stays up until midnight for you and probably is faster on the keyboard than you are too.


That about sums it up.


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## HuskerATL (Nov 1, 2022)

drucifer said:


> Maybe the tool has (or will have) a new "auto-walk" feature.


we should not share any tips for the HGV lurkers...maybe remove that...


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## HuskerATL (Nov 1, 2022)

escanoe said:


> yeah. but if someone is trying to book a week that way, someone else walking a reservation could beat them. we still don’t know if it will beat walking or not. perpetually setting one to book 3 days might give a user over others trying to start walking a vacation.


I think we should not put this idea on the public forum...


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## escanoe (Nov 1, 2022)

HuskerATL said:


> I think we should not put this idea on the public forum...



Good. I disagree. I don't see how it is different than how some like to make posts on this platform discussing how to use the Scotland resale loophole to get elite premiere status. HGVC owns their system and knows how walking works regardless of how much we discuss it on here or not.


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## HuskerATL (Nov 1, 2022)

escanoe said:


> Good. I disagree. I don't see how it is different than how some like to make posts on this platform discussing how to use the Scotland resale loophole to get elite premiere status. HGVC owns their system and knows how walking works regardless of how much we discuss it on here or not.


They know the elite system but it may not have dawned on them how to beat the Max priority booking.


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## PigsDad (Nov 1, 2022)

escanoe said:


> Good. I disagree. I don't see how it is different than how some like to make posts on this platform discussing how to use the Scotland resale loophole to get elite premiere status. HGVC owns their system and knows how walking works regardless of how much we discuss it on here or not.


I think all of the open talk in the Facebook groups around how to "sell" your points by transferring them to another member was a major reason for HGV shutting down that option.  The option was never advertised but always there; however, because it became popular, it got noticed.  They are listening and reading at all times.

I predict it is only a matter of time until they shutdown "walking" a reservation as well (another feature that has always been there, but few used it because it was not advertised).

Kurt


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## ConejoRed (Nov 2, 2022)

Received a welcome to HGV Max email just now.  I had clicked on the enroll link on the previous Club newsletter a few weeks ago when it first came out but nothing happened.  Just checked my account and I am still just a normal HGVC member from what I can tell.  Looks like HGVC still does not have its Max program roll out quite right. I am an all resale owner so should not be eligible under the rules and don't plan on paying 7K to join since I own a Diamond week at the Lake Tahoe Resort so have access to Diamond properties via their DEX exchange.  Enrolled mainly for the all-inclusive fees since we tend to do a number of short stays throughout the year.


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## ksimm (Nov 2, 2022)

ConejoRed said:


> Received a welcome to HGV Max email just now.  I had clicked on the enroll link on the previous Club newsletter a few weeks ago when it first came out but nothing happened.  Just checked my account and I am still just a normal HGVC member from what I can tell.  Looks like HGVC still does not have its Max program roll out quite right. I am an all resale owner so should not be eligible under the rules and don't plan on paying 7K to join since I own a Diamond week at the Lake Tahoe Resort so have access to Diamond properties via their DEX exchange.  Enrolled mainly for the all-inclusive fees since we tend to do a number of short stays throughout the year.
> 
> View attachment 67788


I got that same email today also. Still don’t show as Max.
When I clicked the link for booking it took me back to the max enrollment page.


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## ConejoRed (Nov 2, 2022)

I see that you are also a Craigendarroch owner.... I wonder if it is something to do with how they look at the Scotland resorts with regard to elite status etc.... Just a stray thought and could be totally unrelated.


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## elaine (Nov 2, 2022)

So is open season going to still be available to hgvc nonMaX?


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## HuskerATL (Nov 2, 2022)

elaine said:


> So is open season going to still be available to hgvc nonMaX?


so far, yes.


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## HuskerATL (Nov 2, 2022)

ConejoRed said:


> I see that you are also a Craigendarroch owner.... I wonder if it is something to do with how they look at the Scotland resorts with regard to elite status etc.... Just a stray thought and could be totally unrelated.


I don't think it is related.  I think it is due to property condition and an unhappy board/non-HGV owners who felt they had to overpay HGV to manage it and got little in  return.  So it sounds like it was a bit from both sides.


----------

