# Olympics



## rosebud5 (Feb 14, 2010)

Did you watch those two Korean guys, who would have won the silver and bronze take each other out. That was good for team USA, since both our guys then came in 2nd and 3rd.


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## Patri (Feb 14, 2010)

That's the only event I've seen so far, and my heart was pounding at the end. Love that the commentators can get us right into the action. Apolo Ohno took second and young JR Celski third.
You just never know until they have all crossed the finish line.


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## ricoba (Feb 14, 2010)

rosebud5 said:


> Did you watch those two Korean guys, who would have won the silver and bronze take each other out. That was good for team USA, since both our guys then came in 2nd and 3rd.




Just as the announcer said...."it looks like it may be a sweep for Korea..." THUD....too bad for them....happy for Apolo and J.R.!


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## GadgetRick (Feb 15, 2010)

Honestly, I've always wondered why they don't show this type of speed skating more often. I always look forward to watching it during the Olympics because they don't show it any other time. It's always exciting.


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## geekette (Feb 15, 2010)

rosebud5 said:


> Did you watch those two Korean guys, who would have won the silver and bronze take each other out. That was good for team USA, since both our guys then came in 2nd and 3rd.



That was an incredible race!!!!

There is so much contact in short track that I'm amazed that more competitors don't fall.

I don't care for the team short-track, tho.  Just...  a little weird for me.  Too roller derby or something?


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## jjking42 (Feb 15, 2010)

My son thought it was epic !


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## Ken555 (Feb 15, 2010)

GadgetRick said:


> Honestly, I've always wondered why they don't show this type of speed skating more often. I always look forward to watching it during the Olympics because they don't show it any other time. It's always exciting.



I absolutely agree. One of the best winter Olympic events.


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## Keitht (Feb 15, 2010)

Bring on the snow-board-cross.  That makes the short track speed skaters look like fairies.    :hysterical: :rofl:


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## jlwquilter (Feb 15, 2010)

We watched it - very exciting! I do wonder though... The 2 USA guys won fair and square... getting taken out is part of the sport and avoiding getting taken out is just as much of it.

But, the Koreans out skated the USA guys. Do you think either Apolo or J.R. think they kind of got their medals by sheer luck vs. their own skill/speed?

Looking forward to the snowboarding tonight!!


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## Luanne (Feb 15, 2010)

jlwquilter said:


> But, the Koreans out skated the USA guys.


Until they crashed.



> Do you think either Apolo or J.R. think they kind of got their medals by sheer luck vs. their own skill/speed?


Isn't part of the skill of short track skating to stay out of crashes like the one that happened, and to be in position to take advantage?  Sounds like they did place 2nd and 3rd due to their skill and speed.


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## DaveNV (Feb 15, 2010)

Keitht said:


> Bring on the snow-board-cross.  That makes the short track speed skaters look like fairies.    :hysterical: :rofl:




You're referring to Tinkerbell, right?

Dave


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## WalnutBaron (Feb 15, 2010)

Keitht said:


> Bring on the snow-board-cross.  That makes the short track speed skaters look like fairies.    :hysterical: :rofl:



My son is on the Alpine team at University of California Santa Barbara (yes, they actually DO have an alpine team!) and the Snowboard Cross is his event.

I took my wife to see him compete two years ago.  She was proud to see our son, but she won't go again.  And this is from a woman who saw one of our other sons play football.

It is a totally crazy, insane, and highly entertaining sport.


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## GadgetRick (Feb 16, 2010)

Keitht said:


> Bring on the snow-board-cross.  That makes the short track speed skaters look like fairies.    :hysterical: :rofl:



You mean male figure skaters, right?


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## helenbarnett1963 (Feb 16, 2010)

Keitht said:


> Bring on the snow-board-cross.  That makes the short track speed skaters look like fairies.    :hysterical: :rofl:



The mens snowboard cross last night was awesome.  We watched the qualifying (my son snowboards and was being all geeky about the boarders' techniqe!) and then recorded the finals to watch over breakfast this morning.

Tonight we will be cheering on our local lass Zoe Gillings in the womens.  She is Manx, but races for the GB team.

By the way, does anyone know why the snow is all covered in blue paint these days?? I can understand it for snowboardcross to show where the jumps are, but why is it needed in the downhill??


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## Talent312 (Feb 16, 2010)

helenbarnett1963 said:


> By the way, does anyone know why the snow is all covered in blue paint these days?? I can understand it for snowboardcross to show where the jumps are, but why is it needed in the downhill??



I'm told that the cross-lines are to help with depth perception and the vertical-outside lines show the path that's been packed for skiing; the snow outside the lines may be soft and mushy. Its a safety measure.


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## Rose Pink (Feb 16, 2010)

GadgetRick said:


> You mean male figure skaters, right?


Figure skaters are true athletes.  It requires great skill, timing and speed.  And to make it look so graceful and easy is the true mark of athleticism.  If you dis the figureskaters I may have to get violent with you. :annoyed: :hysterical:


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## Ironwood (Feb 16, 2010)

Outlining the track for the downhill course and other alpine events is even more important than the lower hill events like the snowboard and freestyle.  In flat light at 140km speed the racers need all the help they can get with terrain changes and outer limits of the course.   For our US posters, NBC is at it again!  Time delaying coverage and presenting it as live!  I have been switching between live Canadian coverage and NBC just to see how the americans were covering the events, and I thought they would have learned from the criticism of coverage of the past couple of olympic events.  At least they haven't re-arranged the order of competitor runs to manipulate and heighten drama as they have done in the past.....but we are only into the first few days of coverage.  Weather Canada have just indicated that the temps in BC in February have been the warmest in something like 150 years...which has played havoc with all the outdoor events.


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## Talent312 (Feb 16, 2010)

Rose Pink said:


> Figure skaters are true athletes.  It requires great skill, timing and speed.  And to make it look so gracefu...



My wife thinks they should be graded on the cuteness of their outfits and color coordination skills.


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## geekette (Feb 16, 2010)

Talent312 said:


> My wife thinks they should be graded on the cuteness of their outfits and color coordination skills.



The team that skated last night to The Way We Were didn't bother with over the top costumes and they did a phenomenal job.  They were color-coordinated, tho, which may have had something to do with it ; )


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## Hophop4 (Feb 16, 2010)

We were watching the US pair couple Amanda who is from our town Sugar Land, TX.  They did very well and we are proud!!


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## Keitht (Feb 16, 2010)

BMWguynw said:


> You're referring to Tinkerbell, right?
> 
> Dave





GadgetRick said:


> You mean male figure skaters, right?



You may think that, I couldn't possibly comment :ignore:


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## BevL (Feb 16, 2010)

There was a series on CBC this year called "Battle of the Blades" where pro hockey players were paired up with figure skaters - sort of like Dancing with the Stars on ice.

None of them thought it was a cakewalk.


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## Ironwood (Feb 16, 2010)

BevL....we were all impressed with the improvement in skating of the pairings throughout the series until we saw the pros demonstration in the finale skate.  Sale and Pelletier with a pairs skate and a Kurt Browning solo put it all in perspective...how great the gulf was between this made for TV fun show and real figure skating...and Sale/Pelletier/Browning all in their 40's are well past their prime!


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## Pat H (Feb 16, 2010)

So, how many of you macho men can lift a minimum of 100 lbs straight over your head while just walking on ice, let alone skating on a very thin blade?


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## John Cummings (Feb 16, 2010)

I like all the winter sports excpt for cross country and Nordic. We are watching the USA vs Germany curling.

The US is doing pretty well so far. I sure hope they can keep it up.

I wish that NBC would telecast the events live. Make sure you also check USA and MSNBC channels as they also have some of the Olympic events. I watched Women's hockey on USA and the curling is also on it this morning.

*GO USA !!!!!*


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## ricoba (Feb 16, 2010)

The poor winter weather up at Cypress Mountain has forced the organizers to cancel 20,000 standing room tickets to snowboarding events on the mountain. 

Having lived in Vancouver, I know folks there would normally be happy for this type of weather....but not this year.


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## GadgetRick (Feb 16, 2010)

LOL! Never said figure skaters weren't good at what they do. I only referred to the large percentage of male figure skaters being, well, attracted to other males.

Personally, I don't care to watch figure skating because it's a judged event and seems to be more about who's been at it longer than who's actually the best. Many times the better performances are not judged highly because they haven't been at it long enough. I, being someone who regularly competes in other sports, find a problem with this since it penalizes some extremely good performances. Just not fair. However, it in no way means I don't think what they do doesn't take great skill and a lot of work.


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## Keitht (Feb 16, 2010)

Historically, pairs and ice dance has had the most dubious judging system (to put it politely) of any sport.  It was shown at its worst many years ago when the music failed at the start of the performance by a Russian couple.  They continued their routine without any music and still got top marks for musical interpretation!  How does that work???????


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## John Cummings (Feb 16, 2010)

Very few people understand the criteria for judging figure skating so often what the public perceives as a good performance may get low scores.

For example, it is quite common that a skater can fall on a jump and still receive a higher score than one that doesn't fall. They have a new scoring system now that in some respects is pretty bizarre.


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## scrapngen (Feb 16, 2010)

> Historically, pairs and ice dance has had the most dubious judging system (to put it politely) of any sport. It was shown at its worst many years ago when the music failed at the start of the performance by a Russian couple. They continued their routine without any music and still got top marks for musical interpretation! How does that work???????
> __________________
> Regards
> 
> ...





John Cummings said:


> Very few people understand the criteria for judging figure skating so often what the public perceives as a good performance may get low scores.
> 
> For example, it is quite common that a skater can fall on a jump and still receive a higher score than one that doesn't fall. They have a new scoring system now that in some respects is pretty bizarre.



...and the new scoring system was put in place to supposedly "fix" all those historical problems of judges showing favoritism/being inconsistent/being unfair/etc....:hysterical: :hysterical:


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## dioxide45 (Feb 16, 2010)

scrapngen said:


> ...and the new scoring system was put in place to supposedly "fix" all those historical problems of judges showing favoritism/being inconsistent/being unfair/etc....:hysterical: :hysterical:



All the new system does is remove the transparency and cover up the scores of individual judges. As much I am for athleticism, I am somewhat against adding new sports to the Olympics that have a judging element. It should be based on true measurable results. This would remove a lot of sports though from both the summer and winter games. The one I don't get is Ski Jumping. They have a judging element. If I jump the farthest, why does it matter how the heck I did it?


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## Talent312 (Feb 16, 2010)

In theory, the new scoring system is 'sposed to be more objective and eliminate the tendancy of judges to compare skaters, favor later skaters over early skaters, and stars over novices. That's the idea anyway.

A Primer (More Than You Wanted to Know):
Each executed element is assigned certain base score. If the element is executed, they get that score.
To that, they add a "grade of execution" which may _slightly_ alter the total score for each element.
_(This seems reasonable.)_

But they also add subjective scores _(akin to the old-system)_ for each of the following components:
-- Choreography/Composition
-- Transitions/Linking Footwork
-- Interpretation _(huh?)_
-- Performance/Execution
-- Skating Skills _(huh? again)_

At least there's no score for cuteness of outfit or color coordination (as my wife requests).
-------------------------
In Evgeni Plushenko's case, his elements base-score was 44.10 and his grade added 7.00, for a total "elements" score of 51.10. Then they added a "component" score of 39.75 (no deductions) for a combined score of 90.85, putting him currently in 1st place in the Short-Program.


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## geekette (Feb 16, 2010)

Also not a fan of judged sports in general, but I do watch most sports on the Olympics at least a little.  

annoys the crap out of me that the judged jumps are in the moguls competition.  make it std jump to force them to land on the moguls (isn't that the point or are we trying to get them to break themselves?), first one to the bottom wins.   forget "artistic flair" as I don't want to see that on skis.  as soon as snowboard dancing becomes a sport, I boycott the O's.

Agree that public doesn't have any clue as to tech merit and may be swayed by the story of the couple, or their flag, or outfits, or music, or one skilled jump.  judges know the skills from the very fundamental footwork to the relative appropriateness of this arm wave vs that one.  I know nothing about skating, only who fell and who didn't.  gees, everyone was on their butts last night!

While I don't know what the new scoring system is, that the judges can rewind and  more thoroughly analyze the performances is ... well, I don't know.  on the one hand, I like that it should be fairer to all  of the skaters, but, sigh, in some ways I am too old-fashioned and at odds with my career, and still believe that implementing technology because it's available is not always progress.  

Judged sports have always relied on a handful of humans paying close attention.  You see what you see, you mark errors, note triumphs, put in your score, over and done.  endless reviewing is just too  ...  painstaking.  It still takes humans to do that.  Real humans watching how many performances back to back?  watch live  ...  play, rewind, FF, rewind ...    repeat.   Makes my head explode to think about it, but I suppose it's all in a day's work for them.   

But at that point it's not judging, it's deep analysis and I would want to delve into all parts of it and eval performances side by side for hours, showing 12 simultaneous spinning competitors to evaluate velocity, tightness of toes, whatever... to see which is really best, since I have the tools that can help get me closer to Right.  maybe that is good for the sport, I don't know, and leave that to those in the sport to know what's best.  Perhaps it turns into a situation where the competitors all compete, and then the judges have 4 hours to complete their scoring.  I'd want double that but that would be cruel delay to the skaters.  

for me, I'm a purist and think a judge should do what they always did:  see it and call it, Next Competitor, please...

leave replay scrutiny for next day with coach

just my own crackpot opinion


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## GadgetRick (Feb 17, 2010)

Sorry, I don't buy the public doesn't understand scoring, etc. Plain and simple, too many competitors are ROBBED because of shoddy scoring. Got nothing to do with the complexities of scoring or the judges (supposedly) understanding the movements better, etc.

I have worked as a mixed martial arts official for the last two years. In that time I've probably judged 200-300 actual fights. I can tell you most judges don't know what they're doing. Most judges never competed in the sport they are judging. These two things hold true for almost every judge in every event I've seen.

The same happened in Olympic boxing years ago so they created a system which is supposed to fix it but it's made it worse. Unfortunately, you can't change human nature. There are bribes, personal preferences and personal dislikes in the judges ranks. For me that keeps me from watching most judged sports.

I watch the moguls competition and I have the same issues with it being judged. But I'm an avid skier and I enjoy watching how they bomb down the moguls. If it weren't for that, I wouldn't watch that either.


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## Rose Pink (Feb 17, 2010)

Talent312 said:


> My wife thinks they [skaters] should be graded on the cuteness of their outfits and color coordination skills.


 
What about the snowboarders?  I read something yesterday about one of the Americans who is not happy that other boardcross competitors are wearing tight pants.  He thinks they should stay true to the anti-establishment  aspect of the sport.  He wore jeans.

As for the skaters, they are my favorite sport to watch but I can't stay awake that long.  I kept falling asleep so I missed most of it.


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## Stricky (Feb 17, 2010)

Rose Pink said:


> He wore jeans.




The USA outfit for snowboarders are snowpants that look like jeans. It was a great idea.

http://snowboarding.transworld.net/...veils-2010-olympic-us-snowboard-team-uniform/


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## pjrose (Feb 17, 2010)

I find the comments about fairies, Tinkerbell, and those to whom male figure skaters may be attracted offensive and inappropriate.

:annoyed:


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## geekette (Feb 17, 2010)

pjrose said:


> I find the comments about fairies, Tinkerbell, and those to whom male figure skaters may be attracted offensive and inappropriate.
> 
> :annoyed:



I am completely with you on that.


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## Rose Pink (Feb 17, 2010)

pjrose said:


> I find the comments about fairies, Tinkerbell, and those to whom male figure skaters may be attracted offensive and inappropriate.
> 
> :annoyed:


Thank you.


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## Keitht (Feb 17, 2010)

Rose Pink said:


> What about the snowboarders?  I read something yesterday about one of the Americans who is not happy that other boardcross competitors are wearing tight pants.  He thinks they should stay true to the anti-establishment  aspect of the sport.



None of the snowboarders in the boardacross wore tight trousers.  The commentators on the UK broadcast actually discussed this and said there is a 'gentlemans agreement' (should that be gentlepersons to be PC) that such gear will not be worn.
I see Lindsay Jacobellis blew it again.  At least this time she wasn't showboating before crossing the line.  She didn't get that far.  :hysterical:


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## pjrose (Feb 17, 2010)

Pat H said:


> So, how many of you macho men can lift a minimum of 100 lbs straight over your head while just walking on ice, let alone skating on a very thin blade?


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## jjking42 (Feb 17, 2010)

I tried to stay away from judges sports
I like the seeing who is faster, jumps farther etc


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## Stricky (Feb 17, 2010)

jjking42 said:


> I tried to stay away from judges sports
> I like the seeing who is faster, jumps farther etc



I agree. 

At least in the mogul skiing the commentators can explain what the judges look for. In the skating it seems no one has a clue how they judge it (at least I don't at 11:15pm at night).

I can't believe how many of the top skaters changed citizenship in the last year or two just to be able to compete in the Olympics. That seems to go against the basic premis of the games.


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## John Cummings (Feb 17, 2010)

pjrose said:


> I find the comments about fairies, Tinkerbell, and those to whom male figure skaters may be attracted offensive and inappropriate.
> 
> :annoyed:



I agree 100%.


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## Talent312 (Feb 17, 2010)

*Originally Posted by Pat H:* 
So, how many of you macho men can lift a minimum of 100 lbs straight over your head while just walking on ice, let alone skating on a very thin blade?

Overheard at lunch...
The male skaters must be have a lot of courage to go out there in front of all those people, wearing those frilly outfits.


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## Luanne (Feb 17, 2010)

Talent312 said:


> Overheard at lunch...
> The male skaters must be have a lot of courage to go out there in front of all those people, wearing those frilly outfits.



How much different than the skin tight suits the speed skaters wear?  Or what about swimmers? 

Neither leave much to the imagination.


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## DaveNV (Feb 17, 2010)

Rose Pink said:


> Thank you.



Let me be perfectly clear about this:  I made the Tinkerbell comment deliberately to make sure the poster I referenced was *NOT *making derrogatory cracks about gay people.  I couldn't believe I'd actually read it here.  Sadly, other posts show that was not the case.

I hate bigotry in any form, and am equally offended by language of that sort.  For that matter, slams against any group of people are inappropriate - here or anywhere.

I think what surprised me the most was that the derrogatory comment was made, and not one Moderator did anything about it.  They're quick enough to jump on lots of other things, but offensive language and intolerance toward others apparently doesn't raise an eyebrow.

Dave


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## Keitht (Feb 17, 2010)

pjrose said:


> I find the comments about fairies...........offensive and inappropriate.
> 
> :annoyed:



Maybe something was lost in translation.    All I meant was that although nobody would consider short track skaters to be delicate, they seem that way in comparison to what happens on the snow board course.  
It's possible of course that some people can find offence where none is intended.  That, regrettably, is the risk when no nuance can be included in the written word.  Such is life.


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## Rose Pink (Feb 17, 2010)

Keitht said:


> *Maybe something was lost in translation*.  All I meant was that although nobody would consider short track skaters to be delicate, they seem that way in comparison to what happens on the snow board course.
> It's possible of course that some people can find offence where none is intended. That, regrettably, is the risk when no nuance can be included in the written word. Such is life.


I realize we Americans don't always use the King's English.  Many words and phrases mean something different here than across the pond.  In America, the term "fairy" is used derogatively to mean homosexual.  So, your phrase read "... the short track speed skaters look like [a derogatory slur for] homosexuals."

As for the costumes of the male ice skaters, I agree with Luanne.  They are appropriate for the sport.  They aren't all "frilly."


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## pjrose (Feb 17, 2010)

BMWguynw said:


> Let me be perfectly clear about this:  I made the Tinkerbell comment deliberately to make sure the poster I referenced was *NOT *making derrogatory cracks about gay people.  I couldn't believe I'd actually read it here.  Sadly, other posts show that was not the case.
> 
> I hate bigotry in any form, and am equally offended by language of that sort.  For that matter, slams against any group of people are inappropriate - here or anywhere.
> 
> ...



Looking back, I can see how the Tinkerbell comment could be taken the way you point out as well as the way I took it.

I agree with you about the Moderators.  I was very surprised not to see them here.


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## pjrose (Feb 17, 2010)

Rose Pink said:


> I realize we Americans don't always use the King's English.  Many words and phrases mean something different here than across the pond.  In America, the term "fairy" is used derogatively to mean homosexual.  So, your phrase read "... the short track speed skaters look like [a derogatory slur for] homosexuals."



Well explained.


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## geekette (Feb 17, 2010)

Stricky said:


> I can't believe how many of the top skaters changed citizenship in the last year or two just to be able to compete in the Olympics. That seems to go against the basic premis of the games.



thank you, I also feel it is somewhat anti-sportsmanship and more MEmanship

(or MEwomanship, in at least one case)

I cannot imagine ever representing any other than my own home country but I've never lived elsewhere, and married within my own nationality.


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## geekette (Feb 17, 2010)

Luanne said:


> How much different than the skin tight suits the speed skaters wear?  Or what about swimmers?
> 
> Neither leave much to the imagination.



Not the same thing.

Swimmers do not change suits to fit a theme nor affix makeup or feathers or other funky props or attire to themselves for a specific event.

I've never seen Michael Phelps in anything but a suit, goggles, cap.  

Skating, however, is more a dramatic art with athletic skill required.  costume is part of it.  Even I don't want to wear something one might call frilly and I'm supposed to be girlie   :whoopie:


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## geekette (Feb 17, 2010)

BMWguynw said:


> Let me be perfectly clear about this:  I made the Tinkerbell comment deliberately to make sure the poster I referenced was *NOT *making derrogatory cracks about gay people.  I couldn't believe I'd actually read it here.  Sadly, other posts show that was not the case.
> 
> I hate bigotry in any form, and am equally offended by language of that sort.  For that matter, slams against any group of people are inappropriate - here or anywhere.
> 
> I think what surprised me the most was that the derrogatory comment was made, and not one ... did anything about it.



thank you, Dave.  And Rose, too.  

So we end up having no foul on the play - is that right?  I think that now I got lost in translation    

c'mon, let's all join hands now


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## Rose Pink (Feb 17, 2010)

geekette said:


> c'mon, let's all join hands now


kumbaya!


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## Stricky (Feb 18, 2010)

Now back to the Olympics...

Shaun White was insane last night. These are the best of the best and even I could tell he was far better then the rest. The hight he got was unreal.


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## Rose Pink (Feb 18, 2010)

Stricky said:


> Now back to the Olympics...
> 
> Shaun White was insane last night. These are the best of the best and even I could tell he was far better then the rest. The hight he got was unreal.


He made it look so easy!  That is the mark of a professional.  I can't begin to imagine how difficult this sport is but it is so fun to watch.

I am enjoying some of the commercials as well.  I like the Ode to Joy (ah, ah, ah, ah) with the tongue depressors and the one where the snowboarder touches the moon.  I cracked up last night watching the Old Spice romance novel/macho guy.  "I am on a horse.":hysterical:


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## Rose Pink (Feb 18, 2010)

jjking42 said:


> I tried to stay away from judges sports
> I like the seeing who is faster, jumps farther etc


I was thinking about the race sports last night.  It does seem so clear cut who is the winner based on speed and distance.  Yet, it is not really a fair race since the snow and ice conditions change with each competitor.  Each competitor alters the surface somewhat for the ones that race after and the weather plays a part as well.  Ice surfaces can be refreshed with the Zamboni but snow conditions can really change.


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## pjrose (Feb 18, 2010)

geekette said:


> thank you, Dave.  And Rose, too.
> 
> So we end up having no foul on the play - is that right?  I think that now I got lost in translation
> 
> c'mon, let's all join hands now





Rose Pink said:


> kumbaya!



Hey, and we got it straightened out without the moderators slapping anyone on their little handies!   

Hugs.


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## Keitht (Feb 18, 2010)

I've had one or two e-mails from mods in the past looking to clarify the meaning behind terms I've used as there can be major, and potentially embarrassing, differences in usage between the 2 sides of the pond.  I had no concerns raised on the terminology used in this thread so I can only assume they had interpreted it in the way it was intended.


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## Kal (Feb 18, 2010)

Rose Pink said:


> ... Yet, it is not really a fair race since the snow and ice conditions change with each competitor. Each competitor alters the surface somewhat for the ones that race after and the weather plays a part as well. Ice surfaces can be refreshed with the Zamboni but snow conditions can really change.


 
That's the very nature of downhill runs and the reason why there is a random draw to determine the order of start. Sometimes the snow improves with time due to temperature changes during the day. For the women's downhill, the surface was rock hard where it didn't get cut up. There wasn't much difference in the course conditions between start times. One big advantage in starting back in the pack is you know what it will take to edge out the leader or who fell during their run. In other cases, fog could be present for early runs and clear out during the period of the race. IMHO, I would prefer to start after the top skiers have made their run.

I've made that run on Whistler and it is extremely difficult due to elevation drop, let alone on an icy surface with no ability to edge. Those women downhillers are incredibly good!!  Watch the GS and see the difference when that event occurs.


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## laurac260 (Feb 18, 2010)

Rose Pink said:


> Figure skaters are true athletes.  It requires great skill, timing and speed.  And to make it look so graceful and easy is the true mark of athleticism.  If you dis the figureskaters I may have to get violent with you. :annoyed: :hysterical:



True, but the women who skate in the pairs figure skating work way harder than the men.  Most of them are about 6 inches shorter, and about 50-70 lbs lighter than the men, but they have to stay toe to toe with them thru the whole event.  Yea the guys have to pick them up, but picking up a 110lb girl up in the air and holding her there cannot be nearly as difficult as being thrown thru the air and having to land on your feet like a cat in a tutu.  Ever seen a cat fall from a tree and land on ice?  Even THEY can't do it with grace!


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## laurac260 (Feb 18, 2010)

Keitht said:


> I've had one or two e-mails from mods in the past looking to clarify the meaning behind terms I've used as there can be major, and potentially embarrassing, differences in usage between the 2 sides of the pond.  I had no concerns raised on the terminology used in this thread so I can only assume they had interpreted it in the way it was intended.



Well, it wasn't until someone took offense to the remark about "fairies" that I even made the connection that it would even have been said to mean anything derogatory.  I can translate that in two ways:  I spend most of my time with young kids, so when I hear the word "fairy" I am thinking of something on Nick Jr.     or....  the PC police have made people way too sensitive when no sensitivity is necessary.   I have grown so weary over this whole PC movement.  The pendulum has swung so far in the wrong direction that even an innocent conversation like the Olympics can get people reading into things when nothing exists.      sigh....


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## Keitht (Feb 18, 2010)

laurac260 said:


> the PC police have made people way too sensitive when no sensitivity is necessary.   I have grown so weary over this whole PC movement.



I couldn't have put it better myself.


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## pjrose (Feb 18, 2010)

laurac260 said:


> Well, it wasn't until someone took offense to the remark about "fairies" that I even made the connection that it would even have been said to mean anything derogatory.  I can translate that in two ways:  I spend most of my time with young kids, so when I hear the word "fairy" I am thinking of something on Nick Jr.     or....  the PC police have made people way too sensitive when no sensitivity is necessary.   I have grown so weary over this whole PC movement.  The pendulum has swung so far in the wrong direction that even an innocent conversation like the Olympics can get people reading into things when nothing exists.      sigh....





Keitht said:


> I couldn't have put it better myself.



Oh for Pete's sake.  I said I was offended and thought it was inappropriate.  At least three others agreed with me.  I interpreted "fairies" as a slur for homosexual, Tinkerbell sounded the same way, and the comment about those to whom male skaters might be attracted seemed to confirm that interpretation.

Clarifications and possible different interpretations were posted, and virtual hand-holding ended the issue - or so I thought.

I also work with kids - teens - and I've heard lots of "You look like a bunch of [insert slur for homosexuals]" - so yeah, I AM sensitive to it, but I don't consider it an issue of political correctness or lack thereof - simple courtesy to not insult people.


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## SueDonJ (Feb 18, 2010)

I liked that PJ said something.  Whether it's PC or not, (whether PC is even a bad thing or not,) it was obvious that for some in this thread the meaning of "fairy" was meant to denote "homosexual."  Good on PJ for speaking up, we should all be so confident to ask boldly if insult is intended or not.

Me, I'm in the camp who says that it's very convenient sometimes to use "PC is ruining our lives" as justification for questionable actions.  If being PC means that an insulting comment isn't allowed to stand, then PC is a good thing.  Here on this thread, perhaps Keith's use of "fairy" wasn't intended as derogatory to gays.  But the innuendo in a few of the responses sure was.


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## John Cummings (Feb 18, 2010)

Seeing as this thread is about the Olympics, do you realize that the USA had their best day ever yesterday for the Winter Olympics, winning 6 medals, including 3 gold. 

All the medal winners were awesome. Shaun White is absolutely amazing and is a real class act. I hope Lindsey Vonn and Shani Davis continue their success in their upcoming events.


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## DaveNV (Feb 18, 2010)

SueDonJ said:


> I liked that PJ said something.  Whether it's PC or not, (whether PC is even a bad thing or not,) it was obvious that for some in this thread the meaning of "fairy" was meant to denote "homosexual."  Good on PJ for speaking up, we should all be so confident to ask boldly if insult is intended or not.
> 
> Me, I'm in the camp who says that it's very convenient sometimes to use "PC is ruining our lives" as justification for questionable actions.  If being PC means that an insulting comment isn't allowed to stand, then PC is a good thing.  Here on this thread, perhaps Keith's use of "fairy" wasn't intended as derogatory to gays.  But the innuendo in a few of the responses sure was.





And to throw my two cents back into it, I _*DID*_ read "fairy" to be derogatory.  Unabashedly so.  The original comment was that one Olympic sport was so much tougher, it'd make competitors in the other sport "look like fairies."  That seems pretty specific to me.

But I didn't read "fairy" as a synonym for a scientifically PC word like "homosexual."  I was in the Navy for 20 years, and to my way of thinking, calling someone a "fairy" is tantamount to using the word "FAGGOT."  (And I'm not talking about the British use of that word for something you put on the fire.)  I'm talking about the USA street-slang use of it as a deliberate insult.  "Fairy" in the way I read that sentence is a highly insulting word that rates right along with the "N" word that so many people also have issue with.  It's wrong, and should not be used.  Ever.

My comment about Tinkerbell was to clarify that I'd read it wrong - Tinkerbell is the only "real" use of the word "fairy" that I know.  I'd sincerely hope nobody would ever use the word in a different way, even as a joke.

Dave


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## jjking42 (Feb 18, 2010)

I hate figure skating.
Bring on the speed sports

I also hate dancing with the stars and American Idol.
They might be talented people but I find watching it Boring.( my wife love both so i just leave the room)

If it were up to me the winner of Survivor would be the person that wins the last Challenge. The person kicked off would be the one who came in last in the challenge each week.

I am not a fan of judged sports or judged reality TV. 
IMHO


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## Ironwood (Feb 18, 2010)

If it were just judging alone it would be flawed enough, but when you mix in reputational judging, political and home federation pressures, and the hint of the exchange of money in plain envelopes, olympic judging in some disciplines just drives me to total frustration.   Give me a first past the post event anytime!   Even then, all sorts of gamesmanship goes on whether on the outdoor composite track or indoor short track rink.


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## laurac260 (Feb 18, 2010)

I dont know what was up with the coverage we were watching this past weekend, but it was very annoying.  I wanted to sit down and watch figure skating, but all we ever saw was about 3 skaters.  The prime time station we were watching up in Buffalo kept jumping back and forth from event to event.   They seemed to favor the ski jumps over skating.  We tried to watch CTV (canadian tv), but of course they focused on the events their own olympians were in, which meant, more skiing.


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## GadgetRick (Feb 18, 2010)

jjking42 said:


> I hate figure skating.
> Bring on the speed sports
> 
> I also hate dancing with the stars and American Idol.
> ...


What he said...


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## GadgetRick (Feb 18, 2010)

laurac260 said:


> I dont know what was up with the coverage we were watching this past weekend, but it was very annoying.  I wanted to sit down and watch figure skating, but all we ever saw was about 3 skaters.  The prime time station we were watching up in Buffalo kept jumping back and forth from event to event.   They seemed to favor the ski jumps over skating.  We tried to watch CTV (canadian tv), but of course they focused on the events their own olympians were in, which meant, more skiing.



I've always hated the coverage although it's actually gotten better over the years. honestly, I don't care why someone is trying to win gold, how they grew up, what their family is like, etc. I want to watch them perform whatever sport it is they perform.

Still WAY too many commercials and commentary and not enough of the events. Why didn't the show more of the downhill? Why not show more of the speed skating? I could go on...


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## Rose Pink (Feb 18, 2010)

laurac260 said:


> True, but the women who skate in the pairs figure skating work way harder than the men. Most of them are about 6 inches shorter, and about 50-70 lbs lighter than the men, but they have to stay toe to toe with them thru the whole event. Yea the guys have to pick them up, but picking up a 110lb girl up in the air and holding her there cannot be nearly as difficult as being thrown thru the air and having to land on your feet like a cat in a tutu. Ever seen a cat fall from a tree and land on ice? Even THEY can't do it with grace!


I agree with you completely.  What they do is scary.  It is very dangerous.  However, it is also dangerous for the man.  One of my sons was a cheerleader and was also involved in show dance.  He was hurt many times by the girl falling on him.  He had many sprains and once almost broke his neck when his partner landed wrong.  It is such a balancing act between the two of them.  Dangerous while standing still and incredibly more so when moving at those speeds across the ice.  I don't understand why figure skaters don't get more respect from some people.


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## Kal (Feb 18, 2010)

GadgetRick said:


> ...Still WAY too many commercials and commentary and not enough of the events. Why didn't the show more of the downhill? Why not show more of the speed skating? I could go on...


 
NBC paid a gazillion dollars for the Olympics coverage so the only way to make it is selling commercials, showing feel good stories (to bring in the non-sports fans) and showing a few medal winners.  The real sports enthusiastic might buy a couple of 6-packs and a bag of chips then sit back and wait for good sporting drama.  That definitely doesn't pay the bills though.  So bring on the endless nonsense to raise the ratings and let us debate the Tinkerbell conspiracy, bad ice, warm weather and Dick Button's fantastic triple sow-cow only 50 years ago!


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## Rose Pink (Feb 18, 2010)

I like a few of those commercials!  Most not, but some are great.


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## pjrose (Feb 18, 2010)

laurac260 said:


> True, but the women who skate in the pairs figure skating work way harder than the men.  Most of them are about 6 inches shorter, and about 50-70 lbs lighter than the men, but they have to stay toe to toe with them thru the whole event.  Yea the guys have to pick them up, but picking up a 110lb girl up in the air and holding her there cannot be nearly as difficult as being thrown thru the air and having to land on your feet like a cat in a tutu.  Ever seen a cat fall from a tree and land on ice?  Even THEY can't do it with grace!



Good point!  I hadn't thought about the fact that the women have to keep pace but are that much smaller, and with shorter legs.

I can't imagine being tossed onto a slick surface, landing on a thin blade, not just gracefully, but while completing a move and going into another one  

What I can't figure out is how most of them, male and female alike, also look so darn slender.  They have to be incredibly muscular yet they don't look it.  

I also can't figure out how they do those incredibly rapid spins and don't look dizzy afterward.


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## Rose Pink (Feb 18, 2010)

Rose Pink said:


> I am enjoying some of the commercials as well. I like the Ode to Joy (ah, ah, ah, ah) with the tongue depressors and the one where the snowboarder touches the moon. I cracked up last night watching the* Old Spice romance novel/macho guy. "I am on a horse."*:hysterical:


 
http://www.oldspice.com/ Click on the flag on the right (when he raises his arms) to see the commercial. I don't know why, but I find this hilarious!


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## scrapngen (Feb 18, 2010)

Rose Pink said:


> http://www.oldspice.com/ Click on the flag on the right (when he raises his arms) to see the commercial. I don't know why, but I find this hilarious!



I use Ultimate TV so I don't have to watch commercials and just fast forward through any stories that are not interesting , but I find  I miss the "good" commercials. Thanks for bringing this one to my attention! 

"I'm on a horse." What a hilarious end!! :hysterical:

I'm afraid my warped sense of humor still harks back to the commercial many years ago that they pulled as "too disturbing." It was the Nike one where the guy bungee jumps and then all you see are the shoes when the cord comes back up. "Should of worn Nikes" was the end of the commercial. While I understand that it is serious dark humor and offended some people (or possibly many people), I was first sitting in disbelief but then ROFL:hysterical:


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## dioxide45 (Feb 18, 2010)

scrapngen said:


> I use Ultimate TV so I don't have to watch commercials and just fast forward through any stories that are not interesting , but I find  I miss the "good" commercials. Thanks for bringing this one to my attention!



UlitmateTV. That isn't a name I have heard for a long long time. I thought it died out many years ago?


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## Talent312 (Feb 19, 2010)

Back on-topic: Perhaps a bit jingoistic, but nice to see USA win the men's skating after a long drought.

VANCOUVER (Reuters) – American Evan Lysacek stunned his rivals, including reigning champion Yevgeny Plushenko, with a spell-binding free skate on Thursday to win the Olympic men's figure skating gold... His score of 257.67 eclipsed Plushenko by 1.31 points. Brian Boitano was the last American man to win the title... in 1988.


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## scrapngen (Feb 19, 2010)

dioxide45 said:


> UlitmateTV. That isn't a name I have heard for a long long time. I thought it died out many years ago?



TiVo won the battle, (WAY better name) but at least in the Seattle area (MS heavy) we still have Ultimate TV. What can I say??

I must say I have to plan my recording when we vacation...
I love it for the Olympics and  sports in general, as you can watch real time, but go back to see close races/crashes/or things you missed because DD needs something... and not see the interviews or stories that bore you. I love watching an hour  TV show in 35 minutes. Can you believe most have almost half that hour dedicated to commercials???:annoyed: 

As far as the Olympics go, I find the snowboard cross and the short track racing riveting, as you never know what will happen. Regarding many of the other posts here, ... Having two girls who dance - and work 10-13 hours a week at it - I give ALL the athletes credit for their different sports, whether it requires grace, finesse, strength, artistic flair, speed or strategy. 

However, some are just boring to watch! Long distance cross country? curling? Great to do, requires a lot from a person or team, but I don't want to spend my time watching...:zzz:


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## Rose Pink (Feb 19, 2010)

Glad to see Lysacek win.  I thought Weir should have scored higher but what do I know.  Apparently, even though he skated well, the program was not as technical as others.  Loved the wreath of roses!:hysterical: 

I really enjoyed the snowboard half-pipe.  Those men and women really fly!  If I were younger and in much better shape, I'd take up this sport.  It looks so fun--except for the part where you crash and end up with a bloody face.


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## scrapngen (Feb 19, 2010)

I agree...snowboard half-pipe is crazy and fun to watch! Shaun White just makes you smile and is such an amazing guy when you realize half the tricks everyone does were invented by him!! When he takes his runs, he is just miles above everyone else in ability. Then you see him in interviews or on the podium and he is infectious!! Just makes me smile! That is the kind of athlete I want my children to look up to and emulate. You can just tell that he is well liked, likeable and fun with a great attitude.:whoopie:

We are still watching the men's coverage here, so haven't seen Weir, Pleshenko or Lysecek skate yet, but I can't wait to see Weir's costume! I actually appreciate that he can express himself, and that the downhill skiier Julie can wear her tiara, etc., just because it reflects a certain tolerance that has grown around the world for those who follow a different drummer. Look at snowboarding itself becoming mainstream! Of course, then they show how the Japanese snowboarder has gotten a lot of grief for not wearing a tie while traveling representing his country... 
Still, once again we are allowed to see and appreciate (or not) so many cultures and customs that we otherwise might not be aware of in our everyday lives.


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## GadgetRick (Feb 19, 2010)

Kal said:


> NBC paid a gazillion dollars for the Olympics coverage so the only way to make it is selling commercials, showing feel good stories (to bring in the non-sports fans) and showing a few medal winners.  The real sports enthusiastic might buy a couple of 6-packs and a bag of chips then sit back and wait for good sporting drama.  That definitely doesn't pay the bills though.  So bring on the endless nonsense to raise the ratings and let us debate the Tinkerbell conspiracy, bad ice, warm weather and Dick Button's fantastic triple sow-cow only 50 years ago!


Oh I know why they do this, just makes the coverage, well, boring. I'd rather have less (but better) coverage.


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## normab (Feb 19, 2010)

Happy for both Lysacek and Weir, don't know why Weir didn't up his difficulty a bit to rank higher or if they were not giving him enough points--maybe it's the stupid system. I would rather watch a well skated, musically interpreted program than a high tech program with mistakes and poor musicality.

Was interesting to watch Plushenko's face, he seemed a sore loser to me, instead of being gracious like Michelle Kwan who twice was hugely disappointed...

Go USA.  Looking forward to more speed skating, ice dancing and the skeleton!!!


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## Rose Pink (Feb 19, 2010)

normab said:


> Was interesting to watch Plushenko's face, he seemed a sore loser to me, instead of being gracious like Michelle Kwan who twice was hugely disappointed...
> 
> Go USA. Looking forward to more speed skating, ice dancing and the skeleton!!!


 
I turned off the tv before I saw Plushenko's reaction. It was after 11 pm and I could barely keep my eyes open.

Ice dancing is my favorite of the skating sports. It is just so beautiful. I think it first got my attention in 1984 when Torvill and Dean scored a perfect 6. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t2zbbN4OL98  Doubt it would win today as things have gotten more difficult and dangerous but it is still a beautiful, haunting, seductive performance.


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## pjrose (Feb 19, 2010)

normab said:


> Was interesting to watch Plushenko's face, he seemed a sore loser to me, instead of being gracious like Michelle Kwan who twice was hugely disappointed...



I agree - I read something on Yahoo about his coach protesting and Plushenko saying he was robbed.  On the other hand, Plushenko made a positive comment about his collection of one gold and two silvers.  A silver at the Olympics isn't what he wanted, but it's far from losing.

Lysecek's smile is great!


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## pjrose (Feb 19, 2010)

Rose Pink said:


> . . . I think it first got my attention in 1984 when Torvill and Dean scored a perfect 6. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t2zbbN4OL98  Doubt it would win today as things have gotten more difficult and dangerous but it is still a beautiful, haunting, seductive performance.



We were just talking about Torvill and Dean's Bolero the other night.  Thanks for posting the link.


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## Rose Pink (Feb 19, 2010)

Kal said:


> ... sow-cow ....


Salchow--named after Ulrich Salchow, the Swedish skater who first landed the jump in competition in 1909.


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## pjrose (Feb 19, 2010)

Rose Pink said:


> Salchow--named after Ulrich Salchow, the Swedish skater who first landed the jump in competition in 1909.



Oh good - I was going to look that up but forgot.


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## Elli (Feb 19, 2010)

Rose Pink said:


> I turned off the tv before I saw Plushenko's reaction. It was after 11 pm and I could barely keep my eyes open.
> 
> Ice dancing is my favorite of the skating sports. It is just so beautiful. I think it first got my attention in 1984 when Torvill and Dean scored a perfect 6. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t2zbbN4OL98  Doubt it would win today as things have gotten more difficult and dangerous but it is still a beautiful, haunting, seductive performance.


Thanks for the youtube link, Rose, sure brought back nice memories, I loved to watch that couple skate.


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## Kal (Feb 19, 2010)

Rose Pink said:


> Salchow--named after Ulrich Salchow, the Swedish skater who first landed the jump in competition in 1909.


 
I like sow-cow better.  That was my intended spelling as it best describes the flailing on skates.


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## geekette (Feb 19, 2010)

*Medal counts*

This is a pet peeve of mine and wonder what others think about it.

Having been an athlete in what must have been a past life, I know about the Olympic Dream.  Being there, doing your best ...    there are only 3 medals per event and many MANY more competing for them.  

I am bothered by teh concern with how many medals each country has, and about ralphed when I just heard that Russia was 8th in medal count and that they will consider it a "total failure" if they don't get at least 4th in total medal count.

geees, that is not what it is about!!!  

local media is forever on the medal count and I just ....  don't care.  I like the competitions, seeing an athlete I've followed for years achieve their dream, or, as has happened so much in this Olympics, experience the agony of defeat. 

Defeat, in my opinion, is not finishing.  Being beaten is something else, but to be IN the Olympics would be sufficient reward for me, tho of course I would want a medal and would try my best to get it.   Being selected to represent my country seems like an honor!  Not free, of course, comes with hard work and sacrifice.

When the commentators talk about how disappointed this athlete is going to be if they don't get gold, I wonder - is this coming from the athlete or the talking head?   I woudl certainly not want someone saying I would not settle for silver when that is absolutely NOT what I would say.  

Yes, these are world-class athletes, they have a legit shot at gold, but plenty say "I just want to do my best" and I do believe them.  plenty of talents far below that level that we don't see much about, if anything.  the coverage focuses on those with a shot at medals and I get it.  The race for teh gold is kinda what it's all about!  But, PER EVENT, which is international competition in a variety of sports  Vs the O's being an event where it is decided which COUNTRY is "best" based on number of medals.  

dunno, just irks me.  anyone else?


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## John Cummings (Feb 19, 2010)

geekette said:


> This is a pet peeve of mine and wonder what others think about it.
> 
> Having been an athlete in what must have been a past life, I know about the Olympic Dream.  Being there, doing your best ...    there are only 3 medals per event and many MANY more competing for them.
> 
> ...



I agree with your sentiments. The Olympics were intended to be a worldwide competition between individual athletes and not a competition between nations. I am not sure when it became a battle between nations but that has certainly been the case during the cold war and Hitler's reign up to the present.

As far as winning the "Gold" goes, that has become very important economically. Do you think that Shaun White, Michael Phelps, etc. would be millionaires if they hadn't won gold? Lindsey Vonn's gold medal she won on Wednesday guarantees her millions of dollars. I am not saying it is right but that is the way it is.


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## geekette (Feb 19, 2010)

John Cummings said:


> As far as winning the "Gold" goes, that has become very important economically. Do you think that Shaun White, Michael Phelps, etc. would be millionaires if they hadn't won gold? Lindsey Vonn's gold medal she won on Wednesday guarantees her millions of dollars. I am not saying it is right but that is the way it is.



These athletes compete in numerous events annually, including World Championships.  I think that THE BEST THIS YEAR is determined then, so, yes, these athletes would still be famous.  Someone that follows a sport tunes in more than during the O's and can see who is on the Wheaties box any time.

That's where the stories come from - those that shoot for gold and don't make it, and come back in 4 years to try again.  You don't have to win Olympic gold to get endorsements.

Wasn't that long ago that to compete in the Olympics, you had to be amateur.  I believe that changed to help those in less wealthy countries as they couldn't make money at their sports but needed money to train.  

Yes, absolutely, gold can bring riches if that is the path one wishes to follow.  The Olympic medalists I know didn't have that option, and I know that Sharon (Wichman) Jones (Mexico City, 68, Bronze in Breaststroke) would not have chosen to live lavishly.  One of the most grounded people I have ever known.  Matt Vogel (76 or 80? ) probably would have stayed private.  Stevie Bigelow would have followed the money.


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## DaveNV (Feb 19, 2010)

geekette said:


> Wasn't that long ago that to compete in the Olympics, you had to be amateur.  I believe that changed to help those in less wealthy countries as they couldn't make money at their sports but needed money to train.



Wasn't there also a time when the athlete had to actually LIVE in the country for which they competed?  For example, Plushenko competes for Russia, but doesn't he live in New Jersey?  I think he should have to compete for the USA.

And I'm not sure what to make of the Jamaican bobsled team...  

Dave


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## pjrose (Feb 19, 2010)

geekette said:


> Wasn't that long ago that to compete in the Olympics, you had to be amateur.  I believe that changed to help those in less wealthy countries as they couldn't make money at their sports but needed money to train.





BMWguynw said:


> Wasn't there also a time when the athlete had to actually LIVE in the country for which they competed?  For example, Plushenko competes for Russia, but doesn't he live in New Jersey?  I think he should have to compete for the USA.
> 
> And I'm not sure what to make of the Jamaican bobsled team...
> 
> Dave



Yes, but it also was because athletes from the USSR and elsewhere were supported financially, with virtually everything provided, while in the US and elsewhere they had to work to support themselves and the government did not provide their training, housing, etc.  If I am recalling correctly, then were we one of the less wealthy countries?  

DH used to joke about wanting to be on the Israeli Luge team - if there was such a thing


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## esk444 (Feb 19, 2010)

Amateurism in the Olympics was a sham for years.  It's practically a sham in the NCAA, particularly in the revenue producing sports.


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## John Cummings (Feb 19, 2010)

geekette said:


> These athletes compete in numerous events annually, including World Championships.  I think that THE BEST THIS YEAR is determined then, so, yes, these athletes would still be famous.  Someone that follows a sport tunes in more than during the O's and can see who is on the Wheaties box any time.



The vast majority of the people that watch the Olympics are not aware of the various world championships. Very few people would know who Shaun White, Lindsey Vonn, Michael Phelps, etc are if it wasn't for them winning the Olympic Gold medals. Like the commentators said, Lindsey needed to win a Gold in order to cash in.


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## Keitht (Feb 20, 2010)

BMWguynw said:


> Wasn't there also a time when the athlete had to actually LIVE in the country for which they competed?
> 
> Dave



There was certainly a time when competitors had to be born in the country they represented.  I've never been aware of a necessity to live in the country they represent.  If that were the case then many of the countries competing in the Winter Olympics wouldn't have anybody available because they don't have the right conditions or facilities in their home countries.


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## Patri (Feb 20, 2010)

*Olympic girl who showed off in 2006*

She was featured early these Olympics for a skiing (or was it snowboard) event. Four years ago she should have won gold but did a hotdog at the end and fell. I didn't watch enough to see how she did this time around. She was an American. What is her name and did she win?


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## caribbeansun (Feb 20, 2010)

I believe you are referring to Lindsay Jacobellis - she finished 5th in Snowboard Cross, the gold was won by Maelle Ricker of Canada


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## GadgetRick (Feb 20, 2010)

esk444 said:


> Amateurism in the Olympics was a sham for years.  It's practically a sham in the NCAA, particularly in the revenue producing sports.



Exactly.

And I understand the, "doing it for the dream," thing but, lets be realistic. When these athletes win, they have the potential to make a LOT of money (depending on the sport) so it's not really just about competing. It truly is about who wins and who loses.

With my 7 year old in wrestling, it's about competing. When you get into high school and higher it's more about winning and losing. We like to kid ourselves and think it's not about winning but it is. I've been competing in athletics since I can remember and I can tell you, if someone is competing, they're competing to WIN and are not satisfied with anything less...even my 7 year old hates to lose even though I give him more praise when he loses.


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## Rose Pink (Feb 20, 2010)

BMWguynw said:


> Wasn't there also a time when the athlete had to actually LIVE in the country for which they competed? For example, Plushenko competes for Russia, but doesn't he live in New Jersey? I think he should have to compete for the USA.
> 
> 
> Dave


Then there is the American girl who is competing for the country of Georgia.  She has never set foot in Georgia.  The country expedited her citizenship papers so she could compete in these Olypmics.  Her brother and sister are also competing--for Japan.  Their mother is from Japan.  It was explained that small countries, like Georgia, may not have enough people for the talent pool.  She is participating in ice dancing with a man who _is_ from Georgia.  He would not be able to participate without a partner and there were none in his country.  

I'm not sure what to think about all this.  I like that individual people can find a way to compete.  Some of these talented athletes would not get a chance otherwise.  OTOH, it can make the medal count for the countries meaningless--and maybe that's a good thing. 

It makes me think of the automobile industry.  Is a car an American car if it is built with parts from Japan and is assembled in Mexico?  (you can substitute whatever countries you want in that last example)


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## jamstew (Feb 20, 2010)

*Speaking of Salchows*

Can anyone describe, in simple terms, the difference between all the jumps? I've watched and watched figure skating for 50+ years, and the best I've been able to figure out is that an axel is forward takeoff jump and the rest appear to be backward takeoffs. I think a toe loop is started with planting a toe pick, but then there's something else that looks like that, too. How many jumps are there, anyway?


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## Rose Pink (Feb 20, 2010)

*The Upper Limit?*

It seems to me that more and more athetes are falling down--whether it be skiing, skating or snowboarding.  That happens when a person pushes the limits beyond his/her ability.  Considering that these are well-trained, world-class athletes, and that there are so many of them, it makes me wonder if we have reached the top of human ability in these sports.

Another reason I wonder that is the closeness of the races--they are won and lost in hundredths of a second.  Seldom do we see someone pull away by several seconds.  So, again, have we reached the upper edge of what a human can do?

We have the best technology born of engineering and the study of speed dynamics contributing to the design of their equipment.  Even the fabric in their clothing is designed to be directional to cut wind resistance.  The athletes have access to the best coaches, nutrition and even psychology.

Yet, it seems to me that no one is really pulling away from the pack any longer.  We get all excited because someone beat someone else by .03 of a second.


----------



## Rose Pink (Feb 20, 2010)

jamstew said:


> Can anyone describe, in simple terms, the difference between all the jumps? I've watched and watched figure skating for 50+ years, and the best I've been able to figure out is that an axel is forward takeoff jump and the rest appear to be backward takeoffs. I think a toe loop is started with planting a toe pick, but then there's something else that looks like that, too. How many jumps are there, anyway?


You are more knowledgable than me.  Here is a link to some explanations of various jumps. http://figureskating.about.com/od/skatingmoves/tp/jumps.htm


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## dioxide45 (Feb 20, 2010)

Rose Pink said:


> It seems to me that more and more athetes are falling down--whether it be skiing, skating or snowboarding.  That happens when a person pushes the limits beyond his/her ability.  Considering that these are well-trained, world-class athletes, and that there are so many of them, it makes me wonder if we have reached the top of human ability in these sports.
> 
> Another reason I wonder that is the closeness of the races--they are won and lost in hundredths of a second.  Seldom do we see someone pull away by several seconds.  So, again, have we reached the upper edge of what a human can do?
> 
> ...



This recently changed in swimming with the new suits that they were wearing and there were a ton of new Olympic and world records set in Beijing. They were beating old records by several if not double digit seconds. This however has now been taken away and the federation that oversees swimming has setup new rules on the suits that swimmers can wear.

I have no problem with technology improving the sport as long as there is no mechanical propulsion or doping that improves performance. But for improving performance using better aero or hydro dynamics, I am all for it.


----------



## Rose Pink (Feb 20, 2010)

dioxide45 said:


> This recently changed in swimming with the new suits that they were wearing and there were a ton of new Olympic and world records set in Beijing. They were beating old records by several if not double digit seconds. This however has now been taken away and the federation that oversees swimming has setup new rules on the suits that swimmers can wear.
> 
> I have no problem with technology improving the sport as long as there is no mechanical propulsion or doping that improves performance. But for improving performance using better aero or hydro dynamics, I am all for it.


I remember hearing about the swim suits and wondered what the big deal was.  If all the athletes have access to them, then the playing field is level.  And, as you say, if those suits aren't being mechanically propelled it shouldn't matter.  Where would they hide the propellers anyway?


----------



## dioxide45 (Feb 20, 2010)

Patri said:


> She was featured early these Olympics for a skiing (or was it snowboard) event. Four years ago she should have won gold but did a hotdog at the end and fell. I didn't watch enough to see how she did this time around. She was an American. What is her name and did she win?



She went off course during her semifinal event, so she didn't make it to the medal race.


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## dioxide45 (Feb 20, 2010)

*NBC*

As much grief as NBC coverage usually gets, I must say that I think it is great that almost all of their programing for the Olympics is in HD. Watching the USA/RUS women's curling match at the moment on the UniveralHD channel.


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## jjking42 (Feb 20, 2010)

The skeleton was awesome


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## jamstew (Feb 20, 2010)

Rose Pink said:


> You are more knowledgable than me.  Here is a link to some explanations of various jumps. http://figureskating.about.com/od/skatingmoves/tp/jumps.htm



Thanks. No wonder I can't tell the difference in watching them--I can't understand the difference in reading them either


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## mecllap (Feb 20, 2010)

Rose Pink said:


> It seems to me that more and more athetes are falling down--whether it be skiing, skating or snowboarding.  That happens when a person pushes the limits beyond his/her ability.  Considering that these are well-trained, world-class athletes, and that there are so many of them, it makes me wonder if we have reached the top of human ability in these sports. . .
> 
> We get all excited because someone beat someone else by .03 of a second.



Part of it seems to be the poor snow and ice conditions that have been plaguing several of the events -- not enough snow and warm weather, and lots of people.  I think they are facing even more pressure now than a few games ago -- intense media scrutiny, increasing financial rewards for winning in the showy events -- it's not just an athletic competition anymore; there's more to it.  It also seems like there may be more competitors in many of the events?, which can tear up the various venues.


----------



## geekette (Feb 20, 2010)

Rose Pink said:


> I remember hearing about the swim suits and wondered what the big deal was.  If all the athletes have access to them, then the playing field is level.  And, as you say, if those suits aren't being mechanically propelled it shouldn't matter.  Where would they hide the propellers anyway?



My brother is a professional swim coach, getting close to being on the O coaching team, and he agrees with this.  If everyone can buy them, what's the problem??

However, i think he told me that the governing body, which I think is FINA now, determined that it would be an economic hardship for some to purchase them and that makes it unfair equipment advantage.  Which tells me, they do believe there is an advantage.

don't quote me, that's what I think he said.

so, price of new technology is in the way here.  give it a few years, the suits will be cheaper and the rule will change.


----------



## geekette (Feb 20, 2010)

dioxide45 said:


> She went off course during her semifinal event, so she didn't make it to the medal race.



Yep, the agony of defeat.  

she nearly took other competitors out after she was off course before she got under control and knew she had to leave the race.  I'm not sure she really knew she was out at first or didn't want to believe it.  but I'd have to go back and look if she missed the gate first or went out of control first.  and I don't care that much  ; )


----------



## dioxide45 (Feb 20, 2010)

geekette said:


> Yep, the agony of defeat.
> 
> she nearly took other competitors out after she was off course before she got under control and knew she had to leave the race.  I'm not sure she really knew she was out at first or didn't want to believe it.  but I'd have to go back and look if she missed the gate first or went out of control first.  and I don't care that much  ; )



She clearly went out of control first that caused her to miss the gate.


----------



## Talent312 (Feb 20, 2010)

Rose Pink said:


> Where would they hide the propellers anyway?



Instead of propellers, they could use compressed air pellets for jet propulsion, and hide them in a place "where the sun don't shine."


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## Keitht (Feb 20, 2010)

geekette said:


> However, i think he told me that the governing body, which I think is FINA now, determined that it would be an economic hardship for some to purchase them and that makes it unfair equipment advantage.  Which tells me, they do believe there is an advantage.
> 
> 
> so, price of new technology is in the way here.  give it a few years, the suits will be cheaper and the rule will change.



As the technology has been banned the price won't drop over time therefore the rules won't change.  The increase in performance with the new suits was so great that something had to be done.  There were suggestions that the suits increased buoyancy thereby becoming an artificial aid which has always been prohibited.

On another topic, Lindsay Vonn has certainly shown that although skiers have to be tough they can also be human.  Her reaction during both the downhill and today's Super G, when another competitor had a bad fall, shows that for some at least winning isn't the only thing that matters.


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## Keitht (Feb 20, 2010)

scrapngen said:


> curling? Great to do, requires a lot from a person or team, but I don't want to spend my time watching...:zzz:



They reckon they could have filled a 30,000 seat stadium for every session of the curling.  It's virtually Canada's national sport along with ice hockey.  It's no worse than watching men in pyjamas swinging a stick at a ball and missing most of the time.  

At least we are getting the opportunity to see competitors other than those representing the host broadcaster's country in these Games.


----------



## Keitht (Feb 20, 2010)

geekette said:


> This is a pet peeve of mine and wonder what others think about it.
> 
> Having been an athlete in what must have been a past life, I know about the Olympic Dream.  Being there, doing your best ...    there are only 3 medals per event and many MANY more competing for them.



Can this really be an American posing the question??  I thought in the USA second was 'First Loser'!!!!!

Joking apart, I agree with the sentiment expressed.  It *should be* about doing your best, nothing more, nothing less.  Unfortunately all that changed after 'Eddie the Eagle' in Calgary.  The rules were changed to prevent the true amateur competing and I believe the Games are the worse for it.  Eddie was, and I believe still is, the UK ski jump record holder.  If the national champion hasn't earned the right to compete then who has??
'No hopers' are still permitted to compete in the Summer Games. 'Eric the Eel' took nearly 2 minutes to complete the 100m freestyle but nobody tried to get him banned.


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## ricoba (Feb 20, 2010)

Keitht said:


> They reckon they could have filled a 30,000 seat stadium for every session of the curling.  It's virtually Canada's national sport along with ice hockey.



Where did you hear this 30,000 seat number?

I see that curling is held at a new to me center called Vancouver Olympic Centre right where the old Nat Bailey Stadium is at the foot of Queen Elizabeth Park.  The site shows that there is seating for 5,600 folks.


While I agree that curling is big in Canada, I think it's mostly followed in the Prairie provinces of Alberta, Saskatchewan and Manitoba, though I may be wrong.  But I know that it's not as big in BC as it is in those places.


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## Keitht (Feb 20, 2010)

The 30k figure was quoted by one of the commentators at the curling.  Probably something of an overstatement by them, but every day so far the place has been full pretty much from the start.


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## Ironwood (Feb 20, 2010)

Here's a bit of trivia for you olympic watchers.  

Only four athletes have won medals in both the Winter and Summer Olympics and they are:

Eddie Eagan, USA–Light Heavyweight Boxing gold (1920) and Four-man Bobsled gold (1932).  Still the only individual to win gold in both summer and winter olympics

Jacob Tullin Thams, Norway–Ski Jumping gold (1924) and 8-meter Yachting silver (1936).

Christa Luding-Rothenburger, East Germany–Speed Skating gold at 500 meters (1984) and 1,000m (1988), silver at 500m (1988) and bronze at 500m (1992) and Match Sprint Cycling silver (1988). Luding-Rothenburger is the only athlete to ever win medals in both Winter and Summer Games in the same year.

Clara Hughes, Canada—Individual Road Race Cycling bronze and Individual Time Trial Cycling bronze (1996) and 5,000 m Speed Skating bronze (2002).


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## geekette (Feb 20, 2010)

Keitht said:


> As the technology has been banned the price won't drop over time therefore the rules won't change.  The increase in performance with the new suits was so great that something had to be done.  There were suggestions that the suits increased buoyancy thereby becoming an artificial aid which has always been prohibited.



while they've banned them for FINA meets, other events might allow them.  I was thinking about triathalons, channel swims ...

I also think some people will buy them for cool points or maybe they have training benefits.  some people wnat the latest tech and certainly some have been showing up for swim practice in them.


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## geekette (Feb 20, 2010)

Thanks, Ironwood!  

great trivia!


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## DaveNV (Feb 20, 2010)

jamstew said:


> Thanks. No wonder I can't tell the difference in watching them--I can't understand the difference in reading them either



I'm not a skater, and I didn't read the link provided, but I think an axel is taking off forward, landing backward.  It's harder because of the blind landing.

I think a toe loop takes off forward, and lands forwards.  It's easier because there are less revolutions required, and the skater can see what's happening.  Not sure about the salchow.

I know there is a whole thing about blade edges.  Inside edge, outside edge, and such.  I don't know how it all sorts out.  And then there are the spins - cannonball spins, camel spins, traveling, and who knows what else.  It's almost as confusing as the gymnastics moves, especially in the high bar.  You know, stuff like a "genger?"  

I've watched for years, and still get confused.  The only jump I CAN tell is the axel, since I think it's the only one that reverses direction between takeoff and landing.  I let the announcer tell me what I just saw.  

Dave


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## pjrose (Feb 20, 2010)

They go up, spin, and come down.  I'm happy if they do it smoothly and safely.  There's no way I could count the revolutions at the speed they're going!


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## dioxide45 (Feb 20, 2010)

Keitht said:


> They reckon they could have filled a 30,000 seat stadium for every session of the curling.  It's virtually Canada's national sport along with ice hockey.



Neither curling or hockey are Canada's national sport. That honor belongs to lacrosse.


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## MuranoJo (Feb 20, 2010)

ricoba said:


> Where did you hear this 30,000 seat number?
> 
> I see that curling is held at a new to me center called Vancouver Olympic Centre right where the old Nat Bailey Stadium is at the foot of Queen Elizabeth Park.  The site shows that there is seating for 5,600 folks.
> 
> ...



Last night had a friend come over and he was making jokes about curling.  Never had watched it before and decided to give it a try today.  IMO only, boring to watch.  Yet I know it takes a lot of skill and strategy, and hubby said it may be one of the oldest Olympic games.


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## dioxide45 (Feb 21, 2010)

muranojo said:


> Last night had a friend come over and he was making jokes about curling.  Never had watched it before and decided to give it a try today.  IMO only, boring to watch.  Yet I know it takes a lot of skill and strategy, and hubby said it may be one of the oldest Olympic games.



Curling was an Olympic sport in the first winter games in 1924, however it was not an event in the games again until 1998 in Nagano.


----------



## Keitht (Feb 21, 2010)

geekette said:


> while they've banned them for FINA meets, other events might allow them.  I was thinking about triathalons, channel swims ...
> 
> I also think some people will buy them for cool points or maybe they have training benefits.  some people wnat the latest tech and certainly some have been showing up for swim practice in them.



Unlikely for triathlon.  Apparently the suits can take up to half an hour to get on and off.  Not ideal for the transition in triathlon.  I really do think that, in their present form at least, this is one technology that will not take over.


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## caribbeansun (Feb 21, 2010)

Huh?

*Estimated Size of the Canadian Curling Market in 2008: 
*Based on PMB estimates, the size of the Canadian Curling market in 2008 was approximately 729,000 people or 2.82% of the entire Canadian population.

Now if you'd said the drinking after curling was virtually a national sport then I'd have had to agree with you 



Keitht said:


> It's virtually Canada's national sport along with ice hockey.


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## Clemson Fan (Feb 21, 2010)

dioxide45 said:


> Neither curling or hockey are Canada's national sport. That honor belongs to lacrosse.



Actually, both hockey and lacrosse are Canada's official national sports.  A bill was introduced in 1994 to make hockey the national sport, but there were protests from native American groups to add lacrosse which they did.  So, hockey is their official winter national sport and lacrosse is their official summer national sport.

Lacrosse was started by the Huron and Iroqois Indian tribes mostly located in what is now New York.  The first Caucasian lacrosse club was founded in Montreal.

Hockey was founded and soley started in Canada.  There's no doubt that hockey is the most watched and followed sport in Canada.  So while officially both hockey and lacrosse are their national sport, it's clearly hockey that's the most favored one.


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## Clemson Fan (Feb 21, 2010)

dioxide45 said:


> She clearly went out of control first that caused her to miss the gate.



Early in the races there's a lot of bumping and her and the Canadian bumped a little causing her to lose a little control.  She wasn't completely out of control and was in the process of correcting when she went about 1-2 feet off the course and hit the gate which automatically disqualified her.

It was really bad luck for her.  Had the gate not been right there she could've easily gotten back on the course and I think she would've easily finished 2nd behind the Canadian to qualify for the final.  They don't even have that many gates and it was just really very bad luck for her.  They're allowed to go off the course here and there as long as they quickly get back on the course and stay within the gates that are not that numerous.  Remember, when she showboated and fell in 2006 she actually slid off the course, but she was so far ahead that she was able to get up and finish and get the silver.

The Canadian who won was actually the favorite from the beginning, but the final was expected to be between Lindsey and her for the gold.


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## Kal (Feb 21, 2010)

*Curling Rules - Web Sites*

You know Curling is popular given the number of web surfing sites claiming to provide rules, summary of rules and other info about curling.  When something is hot, rest assured many of those sites are a virus trap.  

Be careful out there.


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## Rose Pink (Feb 21, 2010)

mecllap said:


> Part of it seems to be the poor snow and ice conditions that have been plaguing several of the events -- not enough snow and warm weather, and lots of people. I think they are facing even more pressure now than a few games ago -- intense media scrutiny, increasing financial rewards for winning in the showy events -- it's not just an athletic competition anymore; there's more to it. It also seems like there may be more competitors in many of the events?, which can tear up the various venues.


 
Agreed, the conditions are probably contributing alot to the many crashes and falls.  But that still leaves the close, split-second timing in the races.  Swimsuits excluded, that has been going on for several years now so I am still wondering if we have reached the top of human performance--we just can't go any faster without some means of propulsion.


----------



## John Cummings (Feb 21, 2010)

Clemson Fan said:


> Actually, both hockey and lacrosse are Canada's official national sports.  A bill was introduced in 1994 to make hockey the national sport, but there were protests from native American groups to add lacrosse which they did.  So, hockey is their official winter national sport and lacrosse is their official summer national sport.
> 
> Lacrosse was started by the Huron and Iroqois Indian tribes mostly located in what is now New York.  The first Caucasian lacrosse club was founded in Montreal.
> 
> Hockey was founded and soley started in Canada.  There's no doubt that hockey is the most watched and followed sport in Canada.  So while officially both hockey and lacrosse are their national sport, it's clearly hockey that's the most favored one.



I read where the National Football League has surpassed hockey in Canada as the most popular sport on television however they are more passionate about hockey.

I was originally from Canada and grew up playing both hockey and lacrosse. I played box lacrosse that is a much different game than field lacrosse. Now my favorite sports to watch are the NFL, MLB, and the NBA, though I do go to some of the San Jose Sharks, Anaheim Ducks, and Los Angeles Kings NHL games.

I was on the CBC TV remote crew that covered the CFL Grey Cup game in Vancouver in 1960. I was right on the field next to the player's bench. It was an awesome experience.


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## GadgetRick (Feb 21, 2010)

Rose Pink said:


> Then there is the American girl who is competing for the country of Georgia.  She has never set foot in Georgia.  The country expedited her citizenship papers so she could compete in these Olypmics.  Her brother and sister are also competing--for Japan.  Their mother is from Japan.  It was explained that small countries, like Georgia, may not have enough people for the talent pool.  She is participating in ice dancing with a man who _is_ from Georgia.  He would not be able to participate without a partner and there were none in his country.
> 
> I'm not sure what to think about all this.  I like that individual people can find a way to compete.  Some of these talented athletes would not get a chance otherwise.  OTOH, it can make the medal count for the countries meaningless--and maybe that's a good thing.
> 
> It makes me think of the automobile industry.  Is a car an American car if it is built with parts from Japan and is assembled in Mexico?  (you can substitute whatever countries you want in that last example)



So then all you have to do is find someone who will say you're from a certain country in order to compete for them. Maybe a potential fraud issue there? That's the problem with all of this kind of thing.


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## pjrose (Feb 21, 2010)

GadgetRick said:


> So then all you have to do is find someone who will say you're from a certain country in order to compete for them. Maybe a potential fraud issue there? That's the problem with all of this kind of thing.



I believe you have to have citizenship, which doesn't require being from there, but then you would have to change citizenship. If the country wants you badly enough, it can undoubtedly be expedited.......

And yes, I agree.


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## Keitht (Feb 21, 2010)

pjrose said:


> I believe you have to have citizenship, which doesn't require being from there, but then you would have to change citizenship. If the country wants you badly enough, it can undoubtedly be expedited.......
> 
> And yes, I agree.



I don't know how national qualification rules work in other countries, but if any of your grandparents were born in the UK you have an entitlement to be considered to represent the country.  Possibly the most famous (infamous?) in recent years was Zola Budd.  South African by birth and upbringing whose British passport application was fast tracked in order for her to be able to compete for us in the 1984 Olympics.  Some of you might remember the event!


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## dioxide45 (Feb 21, 2010)

*Canada vs. USA Hockey*

Watching the NBC coverage after the game and it seems the US media is treating this as a huge upset and comparing it to 1980. I think they are hyping it up far more than it really was. Making is seem like a huge upset, while it really wasn't. While Canada was favored, we Canadians are used to disappointment since Canada doesn't usually perform exceptionally well in international hockey.


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## Talent312 (Feb 21, 2010)

dioxide45 said:


> Watching the NBC coverage after the game and it seems the US media is treating this as a huge upset and comparing it to 1980. I think they are hyping it up far more than it really was.



NBC didn't seem terribly interested until it was just about over...
BUT the Canadians had been heavily favored and "it was the Americans first win over Canada at an Olympics in *50 years* (when USA beat Canada in 1960 at Squaw Valley)." So, don't begrunge them some rooster-crows.


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## easyrider (Feb 21, 2010)

What a match up, USA and Canada mens hockey. This was about as good as hockey gets. Canada almost tied it up with the many shots in the last minutes of the 3rd period but really goofed pulling out their goalie. There will be some humbled Canadians buying us a drink for sure. eh !


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## ricoba (Feb 22, 2010)

Keitht said:


> They reckon they could have filled a 30,000 seat stadium for every session of the curling.  It's virtually Canada's national sport along with ice hockey.  It's no worse than watching men in pyjamas swinging a stick at a ball and missing most of the time.



Say, maybe curling is the new national sport of Great Britain.  Wasn't that your mens team that beat the US team today?


----------



## BevL (Feb 22, 2010)

easyrider said:


> What a match up, USA and Canada mens hockey. This was about as good as hockey gets. Canada almost tied it up with the many shots in the last minutes of the 3rd period but really goofed pulling out their goalie. There will be some humbled Canadians buying us a drink for sure. eh !



Not sure how much hockey you watch, but that's pretty standard, pulling the goalie for the last minute to two if you're one goal down.  We were waiting for Martin to make the dash.  It's do or die time at that point - you might tie it up with the extra attacker, or to lose by one or two doesn't really matter.

Tough row for Canada to make to the medal round.


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## BevL (Feb 22, 2010)

dioxide45 said:


> Watching the NBC coverage after the game and it seems the US media is treating this as a huge upset and comparing it to 1980. I think they are hyping it up far more than it really was. Making is seem like a huge upset, while it really wasn't. While Canada was favored, we Canadians are used to disappointment since Canada doesn't usually perform exceptionally well in international hockey.



Even the GM of the Canada team frankly didn't expect to take top honours this time.  He has said all along that Russia is the team to beat.


----------



## easyrider (Feb 22, 2010)

BevL said:


> Not sure how much hockey you watch, but that's pretty standard, pulling the goalie for the last minute to two if you're one goal down.  We were waiting for Martin to make the dash.  It's do or die time at that point - you might tie it up with the extra attacker, or to lose by one or two doesn't really matter.
> 
> Tough row for Canada to make to the medal round.



Yes, I know. It seemed that the extra attacker just got in the way. Team Canada was dominating the last minutes of the 3rd period  and had no chance to win after the 5th USA score. Canada kept playing hard with attitude untill the very end.


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## jjking42 (Feb 22, 2010)

Go USA Hockey


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## GadgetRick (Feb 22, 2010)

Honestly, I can't even really get into Olympic hockey any longer. Heck it's not even Olympic hockey any longer, it's more like the NHL with different people on different teams. I mean, it's just gotten ridiculous. My main problem is, these guys don't care as much about winning and losing as the guys who played who weren't in the NHL years ago (or the women). Think about it, if I'm an NHL player, I'm making quite a good living. If I lose at hockey in the Olympics, big deal, I'm still in the NHL living the life. When the guys played before they allowed NHL players, that was--in most cases--the highlights of their hockey careers. Sure, some went on to NHL careers but the vast majority didn't. So when they won, it REALLY meant something to them.

Sure there are some teams who aren't stacked with NHL players but they aren't going to upset any of the teams who are and they certainly aren't gonna have any legitimate shot at a gold medal.

Honestly, Olympic hockey has become a total farce like Olympic basketball has...


----------



## dioxide45 (Feb 22, 2010)

GadgetRick said:


> Honestly, I can't even really get into Olympic hockey any longer. Heck it's not even Olympic hockey any longer, it's more like the NHL with different people on different teams. I mean, it's just gotten ridiculous. My main problem is, these guys don't care as much about winning and losing as the guys who played who weren't in the NHL years ago (or the women). Think about it, if I'm an NHL player, I'm making quite a good living. If I lose at hockey in the Olympics, big deal, I'm still in the NHL living the life. When the guys played before they allowed NHL players, that was--in most cases--the highlights of their hockey careers. Sure, some went on to NHL careers but the vast majority didn't. So when they won, it REALLY meant something to them.
> 
> Sure there are some teams who aren't stacked with NHL players but they aren't going to upset any of the teams who are and they certainly aren't gonna have any legitimate shot at a gold medal.
> 
> Honestly, Olympic hockey has become a total farce like Olympic basketball has...



I wouldn't go so far to say they don't care about winning or losing. Trust me, they care, regardless if there is a paycheck involved.

Amateur players only in the Olympics was a sham for years, every other sport sent their best professional athletes except for hockey, baseball, and basketball. Think the alpine, speed skater and other sports don't get paid for their appearances and wins at World Cup events and from sponsors? Every other sport had the best players in their sports in the Olympics. Hockey didn't until only a few games ago.

However I do feel that NHL players in the Olympics is there to serve the NHL only, and not really for the fans or the game. Gary Bettman indicated last night that NHL players may not go to the next games. One reason is that many of the games would be played between 4am and 2pm EST, meaning no live prime time games in the USA and Canada. This means no top notch exposure for the NHL. NHL players are there for one reason only, to promote the NHL.


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## caribbeansun (Feb 22, 2010)

Actually with the exception of the Olympics Canada does extremely well at international hockey.

Last 10 years:
3 golds, 3 silvers at the World Championships (next best Czech's had 3 golds, 1 silver)
1 gold at World Cup (only 1 event)
5 golds, 4 silvers World Juniors (next best Russia 2 golds, 3 silvers)
1 gold Olympics (2 events)

Women
2 golds Olympics (2 events)
5 golds, 3 silvers World Championships (only played 8 times)


As to last nights game - the US goaltender stood on his head and pretty much won the game - an outstanding performance and deserving of the win.  Brodeur on the other hand was responsible for at least 2 goals.  It will be interesting to see if Canada switches off to Luongo for the duration or not.





dioxide45 said:


> While Canada was favored, we Canadians are used
> to disappointment since Canada doesn't usually perform exceptionally well in international hockey.


----------



## BocaBum99 (Feb 22, 2010)

dioxide45 said:


> I wouldn't go so far to say they don't care about winning or losing. Trust me, they care, regardless if there is a paycheck involved.
> 
> Amateur players only in the Olympics was a sham for years, every other sport sent their best professional athletes except for hockey, baseball, and basketball. Think the alpine, speed skater and other sports don't get paid for their appearances and wins at World Cup events and from sponsors? Every other sport had the best players in their sports in the Olympics. Hockey didn't until only a few games ago.
> 
> However I do feel that NHL players in the Olympics is there to serve the NHL only, and not really for the fans or the game. Gary Bettman indicated last night that NHL players may not go to the next games. One reason is that many of the games would be played between 4am and 2pm EST, meaning no live prime time games in the USA and Canada. This means no top notch exposure for the NHL. NHL players are there for one reason only, to promote the NHL.



I would rather have the best athletes play against the best athletes in the world.  I always had a problem with communist countries footing all of the training and living expenses for their indentured slave athletes while American athletes had a hard surviving because it was so-called "amateur" competition.

Take Basketball.  The United States has always had by far the best Basketball players in the world.  And, it isn't even close.  To allow other countries to have their professionals play against our amateurs just isn't fair play.

Now look what has happened as a result.  Basketball has become a World sport.  There are great professional players in lots of countries playing in the NBA.  And, on any given day, a Spanish or Argentinian team can beat an American team.

I like the World's best athletes coming together for 2 weeks every 2 years to see who has the best performances and who wins the most medals.

If winning and medals didn't matter, they wouldn't give them out.

I don't like performance enhancing drugs and don't support their use.  As long as those are out of the equation, let the best athletes compete.


----------



## Twinkstarr (Feb 22, 2010)

BocaBum99 said:


> I would rather have the best athletes play against the best athletes in the world.  I always had a problem with communist countries footing all of the training and living expenses for their indentured slave athletes while American athletes had a hard surviving because it was so-called "amateur" competition.
> 
> QUOTE]


----------



## SueDonJ (Feb 22, 2010)

caribbeansun said:


> ... As to last nights game - the US goaltender stood on his head and pretty much won the game - an outstanding performance and deserving of the win.  Brodeur on the other hand was responsible for at least 2 goals.  It will be interesting to see if Canada switches off to Luongo for the duration or not.



Bob Costas speculated last night after the game that today's Canadian newspapers would be carrying stories of this defeat being much more important than others in the world would think.  Is that what's happening today?



BocaBum99 said:


> ... I don't like performance enhancing drugs and don't support their use.  As long as those are out of the equation, let the best athletes compete.


----------



## Twinkstarr (Feb 22, 2010)

SueDonJ said:


> Bob Costas speculated last night after the game that today's Canadian newspapers would be carrying stories of this defeat being much more important than others in the world would think.  Is that what's happening today?



Here's the Globe and Mail sports page for you 

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sports/ 

I'm sorry CBC didn't get the Olympic tv contract, I much rather watch the either summer or winter games on CBC than NBC(more live events). We have CBC Windsor on our cablesystem in Toledo, OH. Would have loved to seen Ron M. and Don Cherry's take on the game yesterday.


----------



## John Cummings (Feb 22, 2010)

pjrose said:


> I believe you have to have citizenship, which doesn't require being from there, but then you would have to change citizenship. If the country wants you badly enough, it can undoubtedly be expedited.......
> 
> And yes, I agree.



There was a Canadian male athlete from the US that they interviewed last night. He was born in the USA and lives in the USA. He was able to claim Canadian citizenship because his father was from Canada.

My parents were Canadian citizens and I was born and raised in Canada. I moved to the USA on my own when I was 19 and became a naturalized US citizen several years ago. When I became a US citizen, I lost my Canadian citizenship as there was no dual citizenship.


----------



## Twinkstarr (Feb 22, 2010)

John Cummings said:


> There was a Canadian male athlete from the US that they interviewed last night. He was born in the USA and lives in the USA. He was able to claim Canadian citizenship because his father was from Canada.



There's a freestyle Austrailian skiier, who's Canadian, few weeks before the games started there was an article about him in the WSJ. He owns some internet companies and wanted to keep up his business activity and the Canadian National team years ago told him no. Austrailian team had no problem with it so, he moved there.


----------



## John Cummings (Feb 22, 2010)

dioxide45 said:


> Watching the NBC coverage after the game and it seems the US media is treating this as a huge upset and comparing it to 1980. I think they are hyping it up far more than it really was. Making is seem like a huge upset, while it really wasn't. While Canada was favored, we Canadians are used to disappointment since Canada doesn't usually perform exceptionally well in international hockey.



It was a huge upset as the Canadians were heavily favored and the game was very important as it determines the seedings and gives the USA an extra days rest.


----------



## John Cummings (Feb 22, 2010)

easyrider said:


> What a match up, USA and Canada mens hockey. This was about as good as hockey gets. Canada almost tied it up with the many shots in the last minutes of the 3rd period but really goofed pulling out their goalie. There will be some humbled Canadians buying us a drink for sure. eh !



Pulling the goalie is standard operating procedure in the last minute when your team is down by 1 goal. This is done everywhere to give your team an extra attacker. It doesn't matter whether you lose by 2 or 1 goals.


----------



## BocaBum99 (Feb 22, 2010)

Here's another point about the Olympics that I see as important.  Let's say you live in Jamaica and you are a member of the Jamaican Bob Sled team.  Do you actually feel badly that others win medals and you are nowhere in contention?  Or, do you care that any of those athletes on the podium are professionals?  I think not. On the contrary, you may feel great to get their autograph like many of the basketball players did against the Dream Team.  Just the opportunity to compete in an Olympic event is worth it to the vast number of amateur athletes who have no chance of ever winning a medal.  Unfortunately, the IOC has set minimum standards so the Jamaicans can no longer compete.  That is a travesty.

I ran in the Honolulu Marathon this year.  Did it hurt me that the Kenyans where heading toward the finish line as I was crossing the 6 mile mark?  Not a chance.  The fact that I got to see them was amazing to me.  In addition, I felt like I was part of a World Class event.  My goal was to finish.  I did.  And, my personal objective was in no way diminished because some Kenyans kicked my butt in the race.  If they made money professionally in this sport made absolutely no difference to me.  I was just happy they participated and I got to see them run.


----------



## DaveNV (Feb 22, 2010)

BocaBum99 said:


> I ran in the Honolulu Marathon this year.  ... My goal was to finish.  I did.



Now THAT was an accomplishment!  Kudos!   

I get tired just watching it on TV.  :rofl: 

Dave


----------



## easyrider (Feb 22, 2010)

John Cummings said:


> Pulling the goalie is standard operating procedure in the last minute when your team is down by 1 goal. This is done everywhere to give your team an extra attacker. It doesn't matter whether you lose by 2 or 1 goals.



I know. My thought was that Canada was dominating the last few minutes without the extra attacker and the 5th score with less than 2 minutes left was the end. The extra player just seemed to get in the way. That USA 5th score was more of a one handed lucky shot or guided slip imo.


----------



## dioxide45 (Feb 22, 2010)

John Cummings said:


> My parents were Canadian citizens and I was born and raised in Canada. I moved to the USA on my own when I was 19 and became a naturalized US citizen several years ago. When I became a US citizen, I lost my Canadian citizenship as there was no dual citizenship.



Has this changed since you obtained US citizenship? Now if a Canadian opts to get US citizenship there is nothing requiring them to give up their Canadian citizenship. They can hold dual citizenship.


----------



## dioxide45 (Feb 22, 2010)

John Cummings said:


> It was a huge upset as the Canadians were heavily favored and the game was very important as it determines the seedings and gives the USA an extra days rest.



Don't get me wrong, it was an upset and I fully understand the uphill battle Canada has to get to the gold medal game. I just think the US media is leaning on this with much more importants that it really is.


----------



## Pat H (Feb 22, 2010)

My grandson was born in England because my SIL was stationed there at the time of his birth. Right now he has dual citizenship. My daughter told me that when he turns 18 he has to declare either British or American citizenship. He can't have both.


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## dioxide45 (Feb 22, 2010)

Pat H said:


> My grandson was born in England because my SIL was stationed there at the time of his birth. Right now he has dual citizenship. My daughter told me that when he turns 18 he has to declare either British or American citizenship. He can't have both.



A lot depends upon the countries. While in the US Naturalizatoin oath, the oath taker takes an oath:



> I hereby declare, on oath, that I absolutely and entirely renounce and abjure all allegiance and fidelity to any foreign prince, potentate, state, or sovereignty of whom or which I have heretofore been a subject or citizen;



However, Canada doesn't recognize this oath taken in the United States, so it still recognizes the Canadian citizenship.

In the case of your grandson, it seems that English law is requiring him to select a citizenship since he didn't even take an oath to the US.


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## John Cummings (Feb 22, 2010)

dioxide45 said:


> Has this changed since you obtained US citizenship? Now if a Canadian opts to get US citizenship there is nothing requiring them to give up their Canadian citizenship. They can hold dual citizenship.



I don't know if it has changed or not. I haven't checked as I really have no interest in obtaining Canadian citizenship. I just posted it because of my interest in how the athlete in question was able to do it.


----------



## John Cummings (Feb 22, 2010)

dioxide45 said:


> Don't get me wrong, it was an upset and I fully understand the uphill battle Canada has to get to the gold medal game. I just think the US media is leaning on this with much more importants that it really is.



You should read the Canadian Press. They have made a pretty big deal out of it as well. I saw the headlines and several articles appearing in Canadian newspapers on the Internet this afternoon. The only difference is one side is very happy and the other side is not.


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## esk444 (Feb 23, 2010)

dioxide45 said:


> Has this changed since you obtained US citizenship? Now if a Canadian opts to get US citizenship there is nothing requiring them to give up their Canadian citizenship. They can hold dual citizenship.



It never really changed.  U.S. law is silent as to dual immigration status, but the State Dept. took an aggressive stance that the oath of allegiance obligated naturalized U.S. citizens to take the steps to terminate their prior citizenship (if it wasn't automatic under foreign law), otherwise their oath was fraudulent.  This simply isn't supported by U.S. law and the State Dept. never litigated this issue all the way through the courts because they knew they would lose.  Though it didn't mean they didn't successfully deny entry to so-called illegal dual citizens, it just meant it never rose to litigation where a decision was necessary.  In 1990, the State Dept. gave up and acknowledged that naturalized U.S. citizens could retain their prior citizenship provided they did not violate one of the loyalty provisions of U.S. law (i.e. voluntarily join a foreign army, take a policy level job with a foreign government, or naturalized citizens subsequently become a naturalized citizen of another country).  

In Canada (I think since the 1970's) you retain your citizenship unless you affirmatively apply to terminate it.  Because of this and the 1990 State Dept. policy, most Canadian nationals that are now naturalized U.S. citizens hold dual citizenship.  However, if you don't acknowledge Canadian citizenship or hold a Canadian passport, Canada is pretty hands off and will probably just treat you like a U.S. citizen (unlike some countries that will not accept termination of citizenship and treat you like a criminal for not meeting your military obligations if you return and they find out).


----------



## SueDonJ (Feb 23, 2010)

Boy, the medal ceremony tonight for ice dancing was just perfect!  The Canadians took gold and those two sang their anthem with such joy and pride - I love to see that.  What a moment.


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## pjrose (Feb 23, 2010)

SueDonJ said:


> Boy, the medal ceremony tonight for ice dancing was just perfect!  The Canadians took gold and those two sang their anthem with such joy and pride - I love to see that.  What a moment.



Yes, it was great.  I also liked the competition.  Wow, Davis and White certainly threw all of themselves into an incredibly fast and athletic routine - I was exhausted watching it!   All the routines were good, but that one just seemed to stand out for its speed and power.

The ski freestyle - yikes, I was blown away at how high they go and how many flips etc they do up there and still land on their feet!  I'd be terrified.....which is why I'm home watching it on TV   

The figure skating is often criticized as subjective and mysterious, but it seems to me that those characteristics also fit the various freestyle competitions.   Nonetheless, they're all amazing to watch.


----------



## wackymother (Feb 23, 2010)

The one I find interesting is the Japanese woman skater who gave up her Japanese citizenship and became a Russian citizen. They were saying on TV that there is no pairs-skating tradition in Japan. She changed her name to sound vaguely Russian, too. She was Yuko Kawaguchi; she became Yuko Kavaguti. 

http://www.nbcolympics.com/news-features/news/newsid=421847.html


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## Twinkstarr (Feb 23, 2010)

dioxide45 said:


> A lot depends upon the countries. While in the US Naturalizatoin oath, the oath taker takes an oath:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I watched Top Gear last night on BBC America, actress Sienna Miller was on. One parent is British, other American, she said she has dual citizenship and actual has 2 passports.


----------



## Pat H (Feb 23, 2010)

dioxide45 said:


> In the case of your grandson, it seems that English law is requiring him to select a citizenship since he didn't even take an oath to the US.



No, it is the US that requires him to choose.


----------



## Rose Pink (Feb 23, 2010)

SueDonJ said:


> Boy, the medal ceremony tonight for ice dancing was just perfect! The Canadians took gold and those two sang their anthem with such joy and pride - I love to see that. What a moment.


 
I stayed up long enough to watch who won and then toddled off to bed. It was broadcast very late. (Anything after 9 pm is late and anything after 10 pm is very late to me.) Thanks for posting this.



pjrose said:


> ...The ski freestyle - yikes, I was blown away at how high they go and how many flips etc they do up there and still land on their feet! I'd be terrified.....which is why I'm home watching it on TV
> 
> The figure skating is often criticized as subjective and mysterious, but it seems to me that those characteristics also fit the various freestyle competitions. Nonetheless, they're all amazing to watch.


 
I also like the ski freestyle as well as the snowboard half-pipe. I agree with your comment on the judging aspects of these events. Still, they are my favorites to watch. Of all the skating competitions, my favorite is ice dancing. It is just so beautiful and I was happy no one fell this year. Everyone that was shown on television was graceful and athletic. The lifts were amazing! Didn't it used to be that lifts were not allowed in ice dancing? I'm glad to see them.


----------



## PigsDad (Feb 23, 2010)

Rose Pink said:


> Didn't it used to be that lifts were not allowed in ice dancing? I'm glad to see them.



My wife thought that as well.  Did the rules change recently, or are we not remembering correctly?

Kurt


----------



## pjrose (Feb 23, 2010)

Rose Pink said:


> Didn't it used to be that lifts were not allowed in ice dancing? I'm glad to see them.





PigsDad said:


> My wife thought that as well.  Did the rules change recently, or are we not remembering correctly?
> 
> Kurt



I think it was throws not lifts that were not allowed ?????


----------



## GadgetRick (Feb 23, 2010)

dioxide45 said:


> I wouldn't go so far to say they don't care about winning or losing. Trust me, they care, regardless if there is a paycheck involved.
> 
> Amateur players only in the Olympics was a sham for years, every other sport sent their best professional athletes except for hockey, baseball, and basketball. Think the alpine, speed skater and other sports don't get paid for their appearances and wins at World Cup events and from sponsors? Every other sport had the best players in their sports in the Olympics. Hockey didn't until only a few games ago.
> 
> However I do feel that NHL players in the Olympics is there to serve the NHL only, and not really for the fans or the game. Gary Bettman indicated last night that NHL players may not go to the next games. One reason is that many of the games would be played between 4am and 2pm EST, meaning no live prime time games in the USA and Canada. This means no top notch exposure for the NHL. NHL players are there for one reason only, to promote the NHL.


Well, I'm not saying they don't _care_ about winning/losing, I'm saying they don't care nearly as much as the guys did before the NHL was allowed to send players. They don't have anything to lose if they lose.

I do agree the, "amateur," status has been a bit of a sham for a long time now. However, allowing people who compete in (arguably) the best leagues in the world with the best athletes in those sports is still much different than what was going on before.


----------



## GadgetRick (Feb 23, 2010)

BocaBum99 said:


> I would rather have the best athletes play against the best athletes in the world.  I always had a problem with communist countries footing all of the training and living expenses for their indentured slave athletes while American athletes had a hard surviving because it was so-called "amateur" competition.
> 
> Take Basketball.  The United States has always had by far the best Basketball players in the world.  And, it isn't even close.  To allow other countries to have their professionals play against our amateurs just isn't fair play.
> 
> ...


Although I understand where you're coming from, I still don't agree with allowing players from major sports leagues compete in the Olympics. Just doesn't give the other countries a fighting chance and, part of the fun of watching the games, is when the underdog wins (remember 1980 hockey?). Those kinds of upsets just aren't going to happen any longer. Do you think Canada (no offense guys) is going to ever be able to compete for a gold medal in basketball with NBA players playing? Just not going to happen and it's just not really fair, imo.

If you want to watch the best athletes in a given sport compete, you can do that on a nightly basis by watching the NBA, NHL, etc. Let the Olympics be the Olympics.


----------



## GadgetRick (Feb 23, 2010)

John Cummings said:


> There was a Canadian male athlete from the US that they interviewed last night. He was born in the USA and lives in the USA. He was able to claim Canadian citizenship because his father was from Canada.
> 
> My parents were Canadian citizens and I was born and raised in Canada. I moved to the USA on my own when I was 19 and became a naturalized US citizen several years ago. When I became a US citizen, I lost my Canadian citizenship as there was no dual citizenship.



If you're talking about the snowboarder I also believe he never lived in Canada. I'd have less of a problem with someone like you competing for Canada since you actually were born and LIVED in that country for a while...


----------



## GadgetRick (Feb 23, 2010)

BocaBum99 said:


> Here's another point about the Olympics that I see as important.  Let's say you live in Jamaica and you are a member of the Jamaican Bob Sled team.  Do you actually feel badly that others win medals and you are nowhere in contention?  Or, do you care that any of those athletes on the podium are professionals?  I think not. On the contrary, you may feel great to get their autograph like many of the basketball players did against the Dream Team.  Just the opportunity to compete in an Olympic event is worth it to the vast number of amateur athletes who have no chance of ever winning a medal.  Unfortunately, the IOC has set minimum standards so the Jamaicans can no longer compete.  That is a travesty.
> 
> I ran in the Honolulu Marathon this year.  Did it hurt me that the Kenyans where heading toward the finish line as I was crossing the 6 mile mark?  Not a chance.  The fact that I got to see them was amazing to me.  In addition, I felt like I was part of a World Class event.  My goal was to finish.  I did.  And, my personal objective was in no way diminished because some Kenyans kicked my butt in the race.  If they made money professionally in this sport made absolutely no difference to me.  I was just happy they participated and I got to see them run.


I understand where you're coming from and you're right, it's an honor to compete. However, no matter how much we want to believe it, it truly is about who wins and loses, not how you play the game (at this level).


----------



## GadgetRick (Feb 23, 2010)

dioxide45 said:


> Don't get me wrong, it was an upset and I fully understand the uphill battle Canada has to get to the gold medal game. I just think the US media is leaning on this with much more importants that it really is.



Hold on a second, isn't hockey like Canada's national sport? I'm sorry but to lose to someone--especially your annoying neighbor to the South--at YOUR game is absolutely a BIG deal. You can down play it all you want but you can't change what it is...a huge upset. It would be like the US losing to Canada in basketball. It would be HUGE.


----------



## esk444 (Feb 23, 2010)

Pat H said:


> My grandson was born in England because my SIL was stationed there at the time of his birth. Right now he has dual citizenship. My daughter told me that when he turns 18 he has to declare either British or American citizenship. He can't have both.



The British Embassy website indicates that if the parents of your grandson are not UK citizens or not permenantly settled in the UK, any birth in the UK after 1983 does not confer any type of British citizenship.

Under U.S. law, you aren't obligated to renounce any citizenship confer upon birth in a foreign country.


----------



## John Cummings (Feb 23, 2010)

GadgetRick said:


> Hold on a second, isn't hockey like Canada's national sport? I'm sorry but to lose to someone--especially your annoying neighbor to the South--at YOUR game is absolutely a BIG deal. You can down play it all you want but you can't change what it is...a huge upset. It would be like the US losing to Canada in basketball. It would be HUGE.



I agree 100% with you. Trust me, if Canada had won it would have been a very big deal to them.


----------



## Talent312 (Feb 23, 2010)

IMHO, the scoring for the Canadian dance pair was _very_ generous.
They may have earned a win, but I question if they were really all that.

If I was a conspiracy nut (AFAIK, I'm not), I'd say that the judges gave
them a boost to make up for US beating the Canadian's hockey-teams... 
and how far behind Canada is in the medal-count.


----------



## Luanne (Feb 23, 2010)

Talent312 said:


> IMHO, the scoring for the Canadian dance pair was _very_ generous.
> They may have earned a win, but I question if they were really all that.
> Perhaps the judges gave them a boost to make up for the hockey-teams's loss...
> and how far behind Canada is in the medal-count.



Since I would guess that none of us truly understand what goes into the judging I don't think it's fair to say this.  I haven't seen all of the performances yet, I recorded them and will watch later.  But, from what I've read so far, there really hasn't been any disagreement with the judging, or the results.

Not like Yevgeny Plushenko who has issued himself a medal from a _new_ category.  

http://www.nbcolympics.com/news-features/news/newsid=441532.html?__source=msnhomepage&cid=


----------



## pjrose (Feb 23, 2010)

GadgetRick said:


> Although I understand where you're coming from, I still don't agree with allowing players from major sports leagues compete in the Olympics. Just doesn't give the other countries a fighting chance and, part of the fun of watching the games, is when the underdog wins (remember 1980 hockey?). Those kinds of upsets just aren't going to happen any longer. Do you think Canada (no offense guys) is going to ever be able to compete for a gold medal in basketball with NBA players playing? Just not going to happen and it's just not really fair, imo.
> 
> If you want to watch the best athletes in a given sport compete, you can do that on a nightly basis by watching the NBA, NHL, etc. Let the Olympics be the Olympics.



I agree


----------



## Rose Pink (Feb 23, 2010)

Luanne said:


> Since I would guess that none of us truly understand what goes into the judging I don't think it's fair to say this. I haven't seen all of the performances yet, I recorded them and will watch later. But, *from what I've read so far, there really hasn't been any disagreement with the judging, or the results.*
> 
> Not like Yevgeny Plushenko who has issued himself a medal from a _new_ category.
> 
> http://www.nbcolympics.com/news-features/news/newsid=441532.html?__source=msnhomepage&cid=


 
The Russians and Italians complained.  The Americans were generous with their praise of the Canadians.  The Italian man reportedly said the Canadians were too technical and weren't really dancing.


----------



## Rose Pink (Feb 23, 2010)

pjrose said:


> I think it was throws not lifts that were not allowed ?????


You are correct!  You win the gold medal.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ice_dancing


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## BocaBum99 (Feb 23, 2010)

GadgetRick said:


> Although I understand where you're coming from, I still don't agree with allowing players from major sports leagues compete in the Olympics. Just doesn't give the other countries a fighting chance and, part of the fun of watching the games, is when the underdog wins (remember 1980 hockey?). Those kinds of upsets just aren't going to happen any longer. Do you think Canada (no offense guys) is going to ever be able to compete for a gold medal in basketball with NBA players playing? Just not going to happen and it's just not really fair, imo.
> 
> If you want to watch the best athletes in a given sport compete, you can do that on a nightly basis by watching the NBA, NHL, etc. Let the Olympics be the Olympics.



Who says we need to give other countries a fighting chance?  If a country has the best athletes in a given sport, they should win, they should dominate.  Why is it fair for a team to have to be handicapped just because their best players earn a living playing the game they love?

Upsets happen every day in the Olympics.  Not sure what you are talking about.  If you mean that a seriously inferior team can never win, well that's too bad.  They shouldn't win.


----------



## BocaBum99 (Feb 23, 2010)

GadgetRick said:


> I understand where you're coming from and you're right, it's an honor to compete. However, no matter how much we want to believe it, it truly is about who wins and loses, not how you play the game (at this level).



Sure it's all about winning and losing when you are elite.  It always is in every sport.

It's also true if you are not in the top tier who have a chance to medal, it's all about being there.  I know.  I participated in the 1984 Olympics.  Not as an athlete, but in the All American Marching band.  It was unbelievable just being there.  And, I am 100% sure that the 95% of world athletes who don't win a medal and have no chance of winning one are thrilled to be in the Olympic village and part of the Olympic experience.


----------



## John Cummings (Feb 23, 2010)

Rose Pink said:


> The Russians and Italians complained.  The Americans were generous with their praise of the Canadians.  The Italian man reportedly said the Canadians were too technical and weren't really dancing.



The American athletes generally don't complain. Also the Canadian and American pairs that won the gold and silver train together in Michigan and are good friends.

I watched them all and believe it was fair. Of course I wanted the Americans to win but both pairs skated very well.


----------



## Talent312 (Feb 23, 2010)

Luanne said:


> ... from what I've read so far, there really hasn't been any disagreement with the judging, or the results [in ice dancing]...



My suggestion that that the Canadians were _allowed_ to pass the Americans in dancing as compensation for beating them in hockey was merely an attempt to stir up more angst from our Canadian friends.


----------



## dioxide45 (Feb 23, 2010)

BocaBum99 said:


> Who says we need to give other countries a fighting chance? If a country has the best athletes in a given sport, they should win, they should dominate. Why is it fair for a team to have to be handicapped just because their best players earn a living playing the game they love?
> 
> Upsets happen every day in the Olympics. Not sure what you are talking about. If you mean that a seriously inferior team can never win, well that's too bad. They shouldn't win.



I agree, the only problem is that when one or only a few countries dominate a sport in the Olympics and that sport doesn't have a broad appeal around the world, the sport gets dropped from the lineup. This is what happened for baseball and softball. Though the MLB players don't play, the sport didn't have a broad appeal world wide, so it was dropped. I am surprised that basketball is still lasting as long as it is. It is a big sport in the US somewhat in Canada, but other countries just don't put out the talent that the US does.


----------



## John Cummings (Feb 23, 2010)

dioxide45 said:


> I agree, the only problem is that when one or only a few countries dominate a sport in the Olympics and that sport doesn't have a broad appeal around the world, the sport gets dropped from the lineup. This is what happened for baseball and softball. Though the MLB players don't play, the sport didn't have a broad appeal world wide, so it was dropped. I am surprised that basketball is still lasting as long as it is. It is a big sport in the US somewhat in Canada, but other countries just don't put out the talent that the US does.



Basketball is very popular in Europe and other countries. There are many Europeans playing in the NBA. Baseball is also popular in Italy, Asia and Latin America.


----------



## MuranoJo (Feb 24, 2010)

I stayed up last night to watch the skating, and really felt the Canadian couple deserved the gold.  Wish we would have recorded it.  But they were all good.


----------



## Rose Pink (Feb 24, 2010)

Why is a bobsled called a bobsled?  Why isn't it called a fredsled?


----------



## pjrose (Feb 24, 2010)

Or a Marysled?

Do Marysledders tend to come from Maryland?
Oh I forgot - this isn't the thread we're trying to "grow".


----------



## caribbeansun (Feb 24, 2010)

Because "Bob's your uncle"


Rose Pink said:


> Why is a bobsled called a bobsled?  Why isn't it called a fredsled?



And yes of course Canadians would have loved our hockey team to have beaten the US, I don't however believe that it was the "huge upset" the American posters here would like to think it was but nice try nonetheless.

The top 6 teams are at virtual parity and the favourites coming in were the Russians as they've won the past 2 world championships.

I will be cheering on our team tonight against those very same Russians in the hope that we can make it through to the next round were it looks like we'd meet up with Sweden.  Hopefully we'll see the US again in the gold medal game.


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## GadgetRick (Feb 24, 2010)

BocaBum99 said:


> Who says we need to give other countries a fighting chance?  If a country has the best athletes in a given sport, they should win, they should dominate.  Why is it fair for a team to have to be handicapped just because their best players earn a living playing the game they love?
> 
> Upsets happen every day in the Olympics.  Not sure what you are talking about.  If you mean that a seriously inferior team can never win, well that's too bad.  They shouldn't win.



So then why not just bar all of the other countries from competing. I mean, what's the point of watching their inferior athletes compete against our FAR superior athletes?

Sorry, but that is an elitist attitude and my very problem with allowing NHL/NBA players compete.


----------



## GadgetRick (Feb 24, 2010)

BocaBum99 said:


> Sure it's all about winning and losing when you are elite.  It always is in every sport.
> 
> It's also true if you are not in the top tier who have a chance to medal, it's all about being there.  I know.  I participated in the 1984 Olympics.  Not as an athlete, but in the All American Marching band.  It was unbelievable just being there.  And, I am 100% sure that the 95% of world athletes who don't win a medal and have no chance of winning one are thrilled to be in the Olympic village and part of the Olympic experience.


I don't disagree with you. Just don't kid yourself and think it's NOT about winning and losing to those who have a shot.


----------



## Rose Pink (Feb 24, 2010)

Rose Pink said:


> Why is a bobsled called a bobsled? Why isn't it called a fredsled?


 


pjrose said:


> Or a Marysled?
> 
> Do Marysledders tend to come from Maryland?
> *Oh I forgot - this isn't the thread we're trying to "grow*".


You are absolutely correct, again.  Your medal count is now up to two golds!  

Maybe the moderator will move these two responses over to the Boycott Godiva thread.  I was just feeling silly last night because I was so exhausted.


----------



## pwrshift (Feb 24, 2010)

*Tom Brokaw explains Canada to Americans*

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tYoTJItSPt0

*In case you missed Tom Brokaw on the opening night of the Olympics.  Makes me proud to be a Canadian!  *

*Brian*


----------



## SueDonJ (Feb 24, 2010)

Thanks for the link.  I did miss that and now I'm glad to see it - it's beautiful.


----------



## Keitht (Feb 24, 2010)

Rose Pink said:


> Why is a bobsled called a bobsled?  Why isn't it called a fredsled?


 
They aren't all called Bob.  Amy Williams calls hers Arthur and makes no bones about it.  

No bones, skeleton bob, get it??  :hysterical: :rofl:


----------



## geekette (Feb 24, 2010)

Luanne said:


> Not like Yevgeny Plushenko who has issued himself a medal from a _new_ category.
> 
> http://www.nbcolympics.com/news-features/news/newsid=441532.html?__source=msnhomepage&cid=



Yeah,  

This guy is now embarrassing himself after initially simply showing bad sportsmanship.  Now I pity him.

Our guy is a true Olympic champion based on his interview with bob costa.  Very diplomatic, not getting into mudslinging.

I saw both performance.  Yes, Plushy threw a quad, but he did not skate clean.  Our guy did not do a quad but skated solidly.  The judges got it right.


----------



## geekette (Feb 24, 2010)

BocaBum99 said:


> Sure it's all about winning and losing when you are elite.  It always is in every sport.
> 
> It's also true if you are not in the top tier who have a chance to medal, it's all about being there.  I know.  I participated in the 1984 Olympics.  Not as an athlete, but in the All American Marching band.  It was unbelievable just being there.  And, I am 100% sure that the 95% of world athletes who don't win a medal and have no chance of winning one are thrilled to be in the Olympic village and part of the Olympic experience.



thank you.  I believe this also.


----------



## BocaBum99 (Feb 24, 2010)

GadgetRick said:


> So then why not just bar all of the other countries from competing. I mean, what's the point of watching their inferior athletes compete against our FAR superior athletes?
> 
> Sorry, but that is an elitist attitude and my very problem with allowing NHL/NBA players compete.



It's elitest to let the best players play?  That is a ridiculous statement.  I am NOT making a distinction between anyone. YOU ARE.  I say any country can field a team in any Olympic sport.  If they are good enough to win and they win, they get medals.  If not, they go home with a wonderful Olympic experience in having fought battles on one of the toughest stages against the best in their sport.

You are basically saying that if a country has the best athletes in a sport, then they should be barred from playing so that countries with inferior talent can take home medals and claim they are the best, when they are indeed not.  Why not just give every Olympic athlete a Gold medal so that all athletes can feel good about themselves?  

Let's take China and women's table tennis.  They have 8 of the 10 top players in the world.   Should they be barred from playing so that other teams can have a chance to win a medal?  Please, oh please, say they aren't professionals so they should be allowed to compete.  

In sports with objective measures, it's a pure meritocracy.  You are either the best on the field or you aren't.  That is what makes sports great.  There is no spreading the wealth in the Olympics.  No handicaps are allowed like in certain Golf tournaments.


----------



## BocaBum99 (Feb 24, 2010)

GadgetRick said:


> I don't disagree with you. Just don't kid yourself and think it's NOT about winning and losing to those who have a shot.



So this is about who has a shot at winning a medal?  Why stop at eliminating professionals.  Why not set it up so every athlete has an equal chance at getting a medal?  Heck, they can set up a lottery ahead of the games to determine the winners of the medals.


----------



## John Cummings (Feb 24, 2010)

BocaBum99 said:


> It's elitest to let the best players play?  That is a ridiculous statement.  I am NOT making a distinction between anyone. YOU ARE.  I say any country can field a team in any Olympic sport.  If they are good enough to win and they win, they get medals.  If not, they go home with a wonderful Olympic experience in having fought battles on one of the toughest stages against the best in their sport.
> 
> You are basically saying that if a country has the best athletes in a sport, then they should be barred from playing so that countries with inferior talent can take home medals and claim they are the best, when they are indeed not.  Why not just give every Olympic athlete a Gold medal so that all athletes can feel good about themselves?
> 
> ...



I agree with you. Every country should send their best athletes, whether they are professional or not. An Olympic medal would have little value if it wasn't won by competing against the best in the world.


----------



## BevL (Feb 24, 2010)

caribbeansun said:


> Because "Bob's your uncle"
> 
> 
> And yes of course Canadians would have loved our hockey team to have beaten the US, I don't however believe that it was the "huge upset" the American posters here would like to think it was but nice try nonetheless.
> ...



I think it's safe to say we've moved on from our loss to the Americans.  

Alexander who?  And even better with Luongo in net in his home rink.

Bring it on!!


----------



## Passepartout (Feb 24, 2010)

Beautiful win Canada over Russia eh?

Jim Ricks


----------



## dioxide45 (Feb 24, 2010)

BevL said:


> I think it's safe to say we've moved on from our loss to the Americans.
> 
> Alexander who?  And even better with Luongo in net in his home rink.
> 
> Bring it on!!



Russia put up a very weak performance against the Canadian's tonight. Good to see that the Canadians were able to bounce back from the loss to the USA. They beat Russia tonight without any days rest while the Russians were working on two.


----------



## GadgetRick (Feb 25, 2010)

BocaBum99 said:


> It's elitest to let the best players play?  That is a ridiculous statement.  I am NOT making a distinction between anyone. YOU ARE.  I say any country can field a team in any Olympic sport.  If they are good enough to win and they win, they get medals.  If not, they go home with a wonderful Olympic experience in having fought battles on one of the toughest stages against the best in their sport.
> 
> You are basically saying that if a country has the best athletes in a sport, then they should be barred from playing so that countries with inferior talent can take home medals and claim they are the best, when they are indeed not.  Why not just give every Olympic athlete a Gold medal so that all athletes can feel good about themselves?
> 
> ...



Ok, let's take the China women's table tennis players. Now, where would they be playing in a league where the OTHER people they'll be competing with in the Olympics CAN'T play? That's my point. Because we have the NBA, we're stacked in that sport. Someone in, say, Jamaica, probably isn't playing in the NBA and is NOT playing the game at NEARLY the same level as someone who IS playing in the NBA (even if they're a scrub). So we ARE competing unfairly when you really think about it.

Now, if we take the kids from college or other, "amateurs," at least the Jamaican kid has a shot because he has an opportunity to play at the same level with those kids.

I don't know if you've played a lot of sports, I have--and still do. After a while, if you keep getting beaten (BADLY), you tend to just give up. That's not good for anyone. It's also not nearly as fun to keep beating everyone (BADLY) as you may think it is. Gets boring. 

And I didn't say it's elitist to let the best players play. Someone (don't remember if it was you) said, basically, the heck with the other countries if they can't field a team good enough to beat (fill in country's name). That is absolutely an elitist attitude.


----------



## geekette (Feb 25, 2010)

GadgetRick said:


> Ok, let's take the China women's table tennis players. Now, where would they be playing in a league where the OTHER people they'll be competing with in the Olympics CAN'T play? That's my point. Because we have the NBA, we're stacked in that sport. Someone in, say, Jamaica, probably isn't playing in the NBA and is NOT playing the game at NEARLY the same level as someone who IS playing in the NBA (even if they're a scrub). So we ARE competing unfairly when you really think about it.
> 
> Now, if we take the kids from college or other, "amateurs," at least the Jamaican kid has a shot because he has an opportunity to play at the same level with those kids.
> 
> ...



A country can set up a league.  I admit to not being knowledgeable enuf about table tennis to know if there is a regular World Championship, etc., but in any sport, a country that wants to increase popularity in that sport can certainly create a league to determine The Best among whoever they allow to compete.

I don't care if we dominate in basketball.  It's just one sport.  Seems to me it is not limited to Americans, either, so I may be missing your point about where someone CAN'T play?


----------



## Mel (Feb 25, 2010)

geekette said:


> I saw both performance.  Yes, Plushy threw a quad, but he did not skate clean.  Our guy did not do a quad but skated solidly.  The judges got it right.


The real question is whether either of them could skate the "figures" that used to be required in every competition.  This is FIGURE skating, and if you want to talk technical skill, they should be looking at footwork, and manybe bring back the figures - sure, the jumps are flashy, but I much prefer a clean program than something flashy.  Look at some of the other competitions where they assign difficulty points.  As far as I'm concerned, those doing the quads are doing them because they can't/don't want to do the work necessary to perfect the slightly easier skills.


----------



## Rose Pink (Feb 25, 2010)

Mel said:


> The real question is whether either of them could skate the "figures" that used to be required in every competition. This is FIGURE skating, and if you want to talk technical skill, they should be looking at footwork, and manybe bring back the figures - sure, the jumps are flashy, but I much prefer a clean program than something flashy. Look at some of the other competitions where they assign difficulty points. As far as I'm concerned, those doing the quads are doing them because they can't/don't want to do the work necessary to perfect the slightly easier skills.


I think they should bring back the figures also.  It was explained about scoring the jumps and that the skating before and after the jump is in an arc and the judges look at the slow motion re-play and judge based on how the foot lands in relation to the continuing arc.


----------



## GadgetRick (Feb 25, 2010)

geekette said:


> A country can set up a league.  I admit to not being knowledgeable enuf about table tennis to know if there is a regular World Championship, etc., but in any sport, a country that wants to increase popularity in that sport can certainly create a league to determine The Best among whoever they allow to compete.
> 
> I don't care if we dominate in basketball.  It's just one sport.  Seems to me it is not limited to Americans, either, so I may be missing your point about where someone CAN'T play?



Setting up a league is a far cry from having the WORLD'S BEST league as with the NBA and NHL. Not teh same.

It's not limited to Americans but it's EXTREMELY difficult for players from other countries with no history of athletes being good in that sport to be selected to play in that league. The NBA isn't like a recreation basketball league, you have to be incredibly good and must also be selected to play. When you're playing against this type of competition day in and day out, you're going to be better than anyone else and you have an unfair advantage over those who cannot play against that kind of talent.


----------



## geekette (Feb 25, 2010)

Sure, and where did the NBA come from?  Has it always been around?  I don't think so.  It started at some point in time and became popular, didn't it???  I don't follow BBall so only know that ABA is somewhere in history.

A trip of a thousand miles begins with one step.  If you don't build it, they won't come.  And if they don't come, it will not persist.  

So, there is no way there can be a World's Best in a league if a league is never started.  

something that gnaws:  how are the Saints the World Champions in Football when no other country is allowed to play in the NFL?  Hogwash to me.  NFL champs only, not World.  NATIONAL FL.  I said that even when our Colts were the Defending SuperBowl Champs because nobody should be talking about Football American as WORLD LEAGUE.  it isn't, altho there are non-American players in it.  

Do we know for sure that the Saints are better than all the teams in Europe and Canada?  I don't know that.  There could be a far superior team, but since they don't mingle leagues, and don't play in the Olympics, and there is no world championship, we will never know.


----------



## Talent312 (Feb 25, 2010)

Mel said:


> As far as I'm concerned, those doing the quads are doing them because they can't/don't want to do the work necessary to perfect the slightly easier skills.



I think they want to do jumps more than figures, so they'll appear more macho than they look in those frilly outfits. IOW, if they wore clothing more athletic, like the downhill skiiers, they wouln't feel the need to compensate.


----------



## John Cummings (Feb 25, 2010)

GadgetRick said:


> Setting up a league is a far cry from having the WORLD'S BEST league as with the NBA and NHL. Not teh same.
> 
> It's not limited to Americans but it's EXTREMELY difficult for players from other countries with no history of athletes being good in that sport to be selected to play in that league. The NBA isn't like a recreation basketball league, you have to be incredibly good and must also be selected to play. When you're playing against this type of competition day in and day out, you're going to be better than anyone else and you have an unfair advantage over those who cannot play against that kind of talent.



That is totally false. I will use 3 major sports played in the US and Canada. 

First there is hockey. Canada was so dominant 55 years ago that the Penticton Vees, a Junior "A" team from Penticton BC won the world championship.

http://www.bchhf.com/Inductees/vees.htm

Now there are several countries that have players in the NHL and are competitive in world competition.

Second, there is baseball. The US was dominant in that sport, Now there are several players in the MLB from many countries.

Third, there is basketball. It is the same story as baseball and hockey with many players in the NBA from other countries..

Look at the individual sports like speed skating etc. It is the same story.


----------



## Rose Pink (Feb 25, 2010)

Talent312 said:


> I think they want to do jumps more than figures, so they'll appear more macho than they look in those frilly outfits. IOW, if they wore clothing more athletic, like the downhill skiiers, they wouln't feel the need to compensate.


It all looks like spandex to me.  Well, actually, some of the skaters are wearing more manly clothing than the spandex skiers meaning that some of the skaters wear shirts and slacks.


----------



## Luanne (Feb 25, 2010)

Rose Pink said:


> It all looks like spandex to me.  Well, actually, some of the skaters are wearing more manly clothing than the spandex skiers meaning that some of the skaters wear shirts and slacks.



And how about the bobsledders?  Those are pretty tight suits as well.


----------



## Rose Pink (Feb 25, 2010)

Luanne said:


> And how about the bobsledders? Those are pretty tight suits as well.


They need to be tight so they can all fit into that little fred-sled.


----------



## Luanne (Feb 25, 2010)

Rose Pink said:


> They need to be tight so they can all fit into that little fred-sled.



Right.  Each uniform, or costume, has it's own function.  I'll still trying to figure out the function of that one teams's wild pants in the curling competition though.


----------



## Rose Pink (Feb 25, 2010)

Luanne said:


> Right. Each uniform, or costume, has it's own function. I'll still trying to figure out the function of that one teams's wild pants in the curling competition though.


To add a degree of interest? To make the sport more exciting?


----------



## BevL (Feb 25, 2010)

Luanne said:


> Right.  Each uniform, or costume, has it's own function.  I'll still trying to figure out the function of that one teams's wild pants in the curling competition though.



The Norwegians.  Their pants have their own Facebook page now.


----------



## pwrshift (Feb 25, 2010)

And wasn't basketball first played in Canada?  

http://www.canadafacts.org/basketball-a-canadian-invention/

Brian



John Cummings said:


> ...Third, there is basketball. It is the same story as baseball and hockey with many players in the NBA from other countries..
> 
> .


----------



## dioxide45 (Feb 26, 2010)

pwrshift said:


> And wasn't basketball first played in Canada?
> 
> http://www.canadafacts.org/basketball-a-canadian-invention/
> 
> Brian



Not entirely true. It was invented by a Canadian, but wasn't invented while he was in Canada.


----------



## ricoba (Feb 26, 2010)

*My kid with the Olympic Torch*

I thought I would share this picture of my son Ben, holding the (I would assume replica) Olympic Torch.  Now that he lives in Vancouver, he's been able to go downtown to the events there a couple of times.  Must be good times for a 19 year old, eh?


----------



## BevL (Feb 26, 2010)

ricoba said:


> I thought I would share this picture of my son Ben, holding the (I would assume replica) Olympic Torch.  Now that he lives in Vancouver, he's been able to go downtown to the events there a couple of times.  Must be good times for a 19 year old, eh?



Our little five year old grandson ran a half block along with several other children when the torch came through Abbotsford.   It was all quite impromptu and a very generous gesture by the torchbearer.  We have a picture of basically, the top of his head, but he (and his dad) was thrilled.

And yes, if your son is 19, I imagine he may have been partying a bit these last few weeks.  

Everybody will be glued to their TV sets at 6:30 tonight to watch the Canada/Slovakia - who would have thought - game.  It's all anybody's talking about here.


----------



## John Cummings (Feb 26, 2010)

BevL said:


> Our little five year old grandson ran a half block along with several other children when the torch came through Abbotsford.   It was all quite impromptu and a very generous gesture by the torchbearer.  We have a picture of basically, the top of his head, but he (and his dad) was thrilled.
> 
> And yes, if your son is 19, I imagine he may have been partying a bit these last few weeks.
> 
> Everybody will be glued to their TV sets at 6:30 tonight to watch the Canada/Slovakia - who would have thought - game.  It's all anybody's talking about here.



We will be watching the US game at noon. We may catch some of the Canada game but we are going out to dinner at that time.


----------



## ricoba (Feb 26, 2010)

BevL said:


> Our little five year old grandson ran a half block along with several other children when the torch came through Abbotsford.   It was all quite impromptu and a very generous gesture by the torchbearer.  We have a picture of basically, the top of his head, but he (and his dad) was thrilled.
> 
> And yes, if your son is 19, I imagine he may have been partying a bit these last few weeks.
> 
> Everybody will be glued to their TV sets at 6:30 tonight to watch the Canada/Slovakia - who would have thought - game.  It's all anybody's talking about here.



That had to be fun for your grandson.

So, what is this torch my son is holding?    I can't believe it's the real thing.


----------



## Passepartout (Feb 26, 2010)

Rick, I have a hunch it's a prop for photos sponsored by Coke, judging by the logo in the lower right corner. Still cool, though. I'd love to be taking part in the festivities there.

Jim Ricks


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## Passepartout (Feb 26, 2010)

BevL said:


> Everybody will be glued to their TV sets at 6:30 tonight to watch the Canada/Slovakia - who would have thought - game.  It's all anybody's talking about here.



I'll Tivo it for later. DW's playing a concert tonight so I have to cheerlead. Great job by the Canadian Women yesterday.

Jim Ricks


----------



## ricoba (Feb 26, 2010)

Passepartout said:


> Rick, I have a hunch it's a prop for photos sponsored by Coke, judging by the logo in the lower right corner. Still cool, though. I'd love to be taking part in the festivities there.
> 
> Jim Ricks



Jim, that was my guess also.  A few of our relatives have the same picture, but I am most proud of this one!


----------



## BevL (Feb 26, 2010)

ricoba said:


> Jim, that was my guess also.  A few of our relatives have the same picture, but I am most proud of this one!



Just looked again at a picture of our grandson with his mom this time (I don't want to post it without her permission) at the actual torch lighting here in town.  He is holding a torch like the one your son is, with the same backdrop/Coke logo.  

Great photo op.


----------



## Rose Pink (Feb 26, 2010)

ricoba said:


> Jim, that was my guess also. A few of our relatives have the same picture, but I am most proud of this one!


And you should be!  He's a nice looking young man.


----------



## dioxide45 (Feb 26, 2010)

Watching the Canada/Slovakia game right now.

How about that Women's gold medal curling game earlier? That was an exciting match. Canada lost  , but an exciting match none the less. Will be watching the Canadian men play tomorrow night...


----------



## BevL (Feb 26, 2010)

dioxide45 said:


> Watching the Canada/Slovakia game right now.
> 
> How about that Women's gold medal curling game earlier? That was an exciting match. Canada lost  , but an exciting match none the less. Will be watching the Canadian men play tomorrow night...



That was a hearbreaker.  One shot in the 10th end really changed the game.

But should be quite the game Sunday afternoon.


----------



## GadgetRick (Feb 27, 2010)

geekette said:


> Sure, and where did the NBA come from?  Has it always been around?  I don't think so.  It started at some point in time and became popular, didn't it???  I don't follow BBall so only know that ABA is somewhere in history.
> 
> A trip of a thousand miles begins with one step.  If you don't build it, they won't come.  And if they don't come, it will not persist.
> 
> ...



Now you're just being unrealistic. I'm not talking 20, 30, 50 years from now, I'm talking NOW. Whether they try to compete at the same level in a new league or not, they aren't going to be on par for quite some time.

And where does everyone get, "World Champions," from football. I watch a LOT of football, they call them the SUPERBOWL champs. And, yes, they would be that.


----------



## GadgetRick (Feb 27, 2010)

John Cummings said:


> That is totally false. I will use 3 major sports played in the US and Canada.
> 
> First there is hockey. Canada was so dominant 55 years ago that the Penticton Vees, a Junior "A" team from Penticton BC won the world championship.
> 
> ...


Right, but those players come from a small number of countries AND there aren't a LOT of those players--hardly enough to field a, "competitive," team against TRUE NHLers or NBAers.

Baseball isn't in this discussion as it's not even an olympic sport any longer.

Allowing NHL players and NBA players to compete in the Olympics is far from the best interest of the spirit of the games. And it makes it much less exciting.


----------



## ricoba (Feb 27, 2010)

Rose Pink said:


> And you should be!  He's a nice looking young man.



thank you 

 he takes after his mother


----------



## TUGBrian (Feb 28, 2010)

hope all of you are watching this hockey game!  what a way to close out the games!


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## ricoba (Feb 28, 2010)

Way to go Canada - Ya did Good in that Game - Congrats.


----------



## Passepartout (Feb 28, 2010)

Congratulations, Canada. A wonderful game and deserved win. Great Games!!! Thank You!

Jim Ricks


----------



## BevL (Feb 28, 2010)

The win is great, but it was a heart stopper on both sides of the border.

It was a great game.


----------



## Elan (Feb 28, 2010)

Great game and great games!  Congratulations and thanks to Canada.


----------



## Ironwood (Feb 28, 2010)

One of the most dramatic hockey games ever!  Both teams played well.  I well remember where I was when Henderson scored to beat the Russians in 1972, and I won't forget this one either!


----------



## cotraveller (Feb 28, 2010)

I haven't read this whole thread so maybe it was explained earlier.  The USA won the first hockey game against Canada.  Canada won the second hockey game against the USA.  That's a tie in a normal tournament, 1 game each.

What is the Olympic tournament format that gives the winner of the second game the gold medal?


----------



## rosebud5 (Feb 28, 2010)

*Hockey Game*

Great finish. Very exiting game. To bad team USA lost, but what a great come back with 24 seconds left. 'm just glad it was Canada who beat us.


----------



## #1 Cowboys Fan (Feb 28, 2010)

I thought it was a VERY good game, and would have thought that, even had the U S that scored at that point.

But they are already saying "...CLASSIC", "Best of All Time", etc.

I didn't see it that way---maybe if it had gone longer in overtime, or a dramatic shootout, etc.

It seems like almost every Championship game in any sport that ends in a close score now is dubbed a "CLASSIC", ("game of the Century", etc.)----some are, some aren't (in my opinion.)

It was a VERY good game.

Pat


----------



## #1 Cowboys Fan (Feb 28, 2010)

cotraveller said:


> I haven't read this whole thread so maybe it was explained earlier.  The USA won the first hockey game against Canada.  Canada won the second hockey game against the USA.  That's a tie in a normal tournament, 1 game each.
> 
> What is the Olympic tournament format that gives the winner of the second game the gold medal?



After the preliminary round/pool, some of the top teams move on/advance.

US had beaten Canada in the PRELIMINARY round and won their 'pool'.

Both teams advanced, and kept winning.

....Canada won their semi-final game to advance to the final game, the US did the same.

The teams that US and Canada beat in the semis played for the bronze.

Canada and US played for the 'Gold' (with the other team winning the Silver.)

Pat


----------



## scrapngen (Feb 28, 2010)

#1 Cowboys Fan said:


> I thought it was a VERY good game, and would have thought that, even had the U S that scored at that point.
> 
> But they are already saying "...CLASSIC", "Best of All Time", etc.
> 
> ...



 "...CLASSIC", "Best of All Time", etc. should be reserved for the amazing effort of the 1980 USA college players beating an incredible, older, professional Russian team...

This was a fantastic game between two top teams! Congratulations to our friends across the border!! O Canada, indeed!!!!


----------



## BevL (Feb 28, 2010)

Ironwood said:


> One of the most dramatic hockey games ever!  Both teams played well.  I well remember where I was when Henderson scored to beat the Russians in 1972, and I won't forget this one either!



That series is the yardstick of classic hockey.  I think everybody who is old enough to really remember that series remembers where they were when Paul Henderson scored.  I was in grade eight, and our teacher had snagged one of the few TVs in the school - he was huge hockey fan.  

Today's game was really exciting, close, well played by both teams, could have gone either way.  Add to that the Americans weren't really considered a top seed but played perfectly, the battle that Canada had to get to that game and the fact that the Russians went home early and it was pretty darn good hockey.

CTV has had much coverage about the sense of Canadian pride all over the country.  It's been quite an amazing thing, actually.


----------



## scrapngen (Feb 28, 2010)

BevL said:


> CTV has had much coverage about the sense of Canadian pride all over the country.  It's been quite an amazing thing, actually.



Canada has hosted a great Olympics. Vancouver/all of Canada should be proud, and the Canadian athletes represented their country so well! 

Wish NBC had made better decisions about the coverage during "prime time." 
It actually wasn't at all! My girls didn't see much as they saved the "best" (their judgement of best here)  for the last two hours of each night - well past school age bedtimes!! (here on the West Coast evening coverage was from 8-12:30 PM! 9:30 is the latest I'll let them stay up if there is school the next day and that is only for special occasions!! They don't have the sense of the Olympics that I did growing up, because they don't get to see enough, and it's hard to tell what is going on if you only see snippets of races...
Also, they would cover part of an event, part of another etc. but not show finishes for any until later. :annoyed: 

I didn't realise the first Canada/US hockey match was covered on MSNBC until after I missed it (!) sigh....


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## Moosie (Feb 28, 2010)

What a great two weeks for all. 

To those of you above our border, what a wonderful sense of fun, grace and thankfulness you have shown the world how people from the globe can unite and come together and make this planet the way it was intended to be.

Canada you did a great job!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## SueDonJ (Feb 28, 2010)

What a great game!  Boy, Crosby is having a great year, isn't he?

We've enjoyed the Olympics very much this time around, can't remember the last time I watched as much coverage.  It's been fun.   

I'm still so impressed with all of the Canadian athletes for the way they belted out their national anthem during their Gold medal ceremonies.  Especially at the indoor arenas where the spectators voices could be heard loud and clear along with the athletes' - following the ice dancing and today's hockey game I literally had tears for all of them.  That's the way pride for representing your country and respect for the Olympic theatre SHOULD be shown.  Sadly, way too few American athletes exhibited the same thing when they got their turns on the Gold medal platforms, and I don't remember it being like that for us when the Olympics have been in the US.


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## geekette (Mar 1, 2010)

I do wish that the hockey medal ceremony could have been put off.  our guys had just lost gold and it would have been nice to see them enjoy silver instead of looking spent and sad.  Could also have used camera footage of more than one Canadian player!!!  

I don't like that there was a previous medal ceremony for bronze - that doesn't work for me at all!!!  What, everyone stood around in silence as one flag was raised but no gold medal anthem??

Good games, tho.  I also cannot remember the last time I was THIS into them!  I needed the diversion.


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## Keitht (Mar 1, 2010)

cotraveller said:


> I haven't read this whole thread so maybe it was explained earlier.  The USA won the first hockey game against Canada.  Canada won the second hockey game against the USA.  That's a tie in a normal tournament, 1 game each.
> 
> What is the Olympic tournament format that gives the winner of the second game the gold medal?



Has anybody seen the 'sour grapes' smilie????  :hysterical: :rofl:


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## easyrider (Mar 1, 2010)

Keitht said:


> Has anybody seen the 'sour grapes' smilie????  :hysterical: :rofl:



Does it look like this ?


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## John Cummings (Mar 1, 2010)

Keitht said:


> Has anybody seen the 'sour grapes' smilie????  :hysterical: :rofl:



I don't think it was sour grapes. The question is legitimate if one is not familiar with the Olympic format.


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## easyrider (Mar 1, 2010)

I have a sour grape gripe. I know that the Olympics are set up the way it is for medals. This doesnt change the fact that Canada only won the last game after losing the first to Team USA. Even though they won gold, in reality, it is still what it is, tied.       

However, I thought Canada would win Gold this year and Im not upset about it. Im glad it was Canada then USA over any European Team. 

Would have prefered USA then Canada is all Im saying.


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## "Roger" (Mar 1, 2010)

easyrider said:


> I have a sour grape gripe. I know that the Olympics are set up the way it is for medals. This doesnt change the fact that Canada only won the last game after losing the first to Team USA. Even though they won gold, in reality, it is still what it is, tied...


Happens all the time in US sports.  An NFL team loses (or loses twice) to another team during the season and then wins a playoff game.  Likewise for any other sport that has a playoff to determine the "best" team.

(Personally I think that playoffs are a poor way to determine who has the "best" team.  That doesn't change the fact, however, that the Olympic format is not unique in letting a team lose early then win the ultimate championship.)


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## pwrshift (Mar 1, 2010)

I've been in the USA since the Olympics started and have to agree that NBC's coverage of it left a lot to be desired, at least for me as a Canadian.  I had my laptop with Slingbox on it and there were 5 Canadian channels (including French) that I could flip between even when the main network (CTV) wasn't broadcasting.  However, I quite liked Bob Costas' reporting - he seemed objective, fair and experienced.  MSNBC seemed to fill in some of the prime time void in the US thankfully.

I do think Canada had a great Olympics -- for a population just 1/10th the size of the US our athletes did us proud.

Brian


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## John Cummings (Mar 1, 2010)

pwrshift said:


> I've been in the USA since the Olympics started and have to agree that NBC's coverage of it left a lot to be desired, at least for me as a Canadian.  I had my laptop with Slingbox on it and there were 5 Canadian channels (including French) that I could flip between even when the main network (CTV) wasn't broadcasting.  However, I quite liked Bob Costas' reporting - he seemed objective, fair and experienced.  MSNBC seemed to fill in some of the prime time void in the US thankfully.
> 
> I do think Canada had a great Olympics -- for a population just 1/10th the size of the US our athletes did us proud.
> 
> Brian



Yes, Canada did very well. However the 1/10th of the population is not a valid comparison because a lot of the US does not play much winter sports due to the warmer climate.

What is interesting is that both countries now have about 500,000 each playing hockey.


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## Passepartout (Mar 1, 2010)

pwrshift said:


> .....for a population just 1/10th the size of the US our athletes did us proud.
> 
> Brian



Your athletes did your country proud, and your country showed the world that Canadians are real world-class people with real world-class outdoors.

It's been an honor to share a continent with you all.

Jim Ricks


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## dioxide45 (Mar 1, 2010)

pwrshift said:


> I've been in the USA since the Olympics started and have to agree that NBC's coverage of it left a lot to be desired, at least for me as a Canadian.  I had my laptop with Slingbox on it and there were 5 Canadian channels (including French) that I could flip between even when the main network (CTV) wasn't broadcasting.  However, I quite liked Bob Costas' reporting - he seemed objective, fair and experienced.  MSNBC seemed to fill in some of the prime time void in the US thankfully.
> 
> I do think Canada had a great Olympics -- for a population just 1/10th the size of the US our athletes did us proud.
> 
> Brian



Other than their prime time coverage, I think NBC did very well. They did indeed have five channels that covered the games, you probably just couldn't get the other ones at Beach Place. Universal HD, MSNBC, CNBC, USA, and the main network all had coverage. They actually carries over half of the curling matches.

Their prime time coverage always has a lot to be desired, and their always USA coverage with little international coverage could be better.


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## pwrshift (Mar 1, 2010)

John, I'm in Fort Lauderdale right now and if it gets any colder there will be outdoor skating rinks here too!  We drove down for our month here starting Feb 14 and saw more snow from Toledo to Atlanta than we had in Toronto this year (although Toronto got hit last weekend apparently).  Crazy year for weather ... great year for winter fun (if you like snow) but probably the coldest I've seen in 30+ years of coming here at this time.  However, don't they play hockey in Phoenix anymore ... and several other hot spots?

Brian



John Cummings said:


> Yes, Canada did very well. However the 1/10th of the population is not a valid comparison because *a lot of the US does not play much winter sports due to the warmer climate*.
> 
> What is interesting is that both countries now have about 500,000 each playing hockey.


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## John Cummings (Mar 2, 2010)

pwrshift said:


> John, I'm in Fort Lauderdale right now and if it gets any colder there will be outdoor skating rinks here too!  We drove down for our month here starting Feb 14 and saw more snow from Toledo to Atlanta than we had in Toronto this year (although Toronto got hit last weekend apparently).  Crazy year for weather ... great year for winter fun (if you like snow) but probably the coldest I've seen in 30+ years of coming here at this time.  However, don't they play hockey in Phoenix anymore ... and several other hot spots?
> 
> Brian



Yes,

They do play hockey in Phoenix and Southern California, etc. but not nearly to the extent than in the colder climes. I grew up playing hockey in the Windermere Valley in BC. We lived right next to Lake Windermere where we played every day. I never played organized hockey until I was 14. In those days kids didn't play organized hockey until that age. Jean Beliveau said several years ago that kids weren't developing the individual skills by playing organized hockey at such a young age as they do now. Like he said, there is nothing like playing keep away for 4 or 5 hours a day on the lakes and ponds to develop your skills.

I did play hockey in an adult league when I lived in Phoenix but all the players were either from Canada or the northern states. I read in Sports Illustrated a couple months ago about a phenomenal young player from Texas. I expect you will see more of that.

Sorry about all the cold weather you are getting. We lived in the Fort Lauderdale area for 8 years. Our weather here in Southern California is much cooler than normal.


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## dioxide45 (Mar 5, 2010)

Why do they refer to the Winter Olympics simply as the "Olympic Winter Games" yet the summer Olympics are referred to the "Games of the ## Olympiad".


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## dioxide45 (Mar 5, 2010)

I actually said to my wife after the Canadian men won gold in Curling "This is bigger than hockey gold". Of course the hockey gold hadn't been won yet, but I still would have to agree. The back story to the Canadian mens curling team was interesting and going undefeated during the tournament was great.

Not sure if many other Canadians would agree that curling gold was bigger than that in hockey, but I still think so. Even though I grew up in Canada, I still find Curling to be more exciting.


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## eal (Mar 6, 2010)

I am a Canadian and I was in southern California for the entire span of the Olympics.  I thought NBC did a great job of coverage, although I am old enough to stay up late.  Sometimes I would cheat and check online to see big events aned get results, but I always watched it on TV too.  There was good coverage of Canadian highlight moments as well as the US ones.  

I got to watch the final hockey game on the plane flying home on a Canadian channel, so the commercials were novel but the coverage wasn't better.


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## Talent312 (Mar 6, 2010)

dioxide45 said:


> Why do they refer to the Winter Olympics simply as the "Olympic Winter Games" yet the summer Olympics are referred to the "Games of the ## Olympiad".



1. Becuz the marathon is more serious than curling?
2. Becuz its kind'a silly to play outside in the snow?
3. Becuz the the Winter Olymipics are new (1924)
... while the _Summer_ Olympics date back to 776 BC?

Actually, the IOC refers to both the same way, with London 2012 being the "XXX Olympic Summer Games" and Sochi 2014 being the "XXII Olympic Winter Games." Any other reference is merely marketing.


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## pjrose (Mar 6, 2010)

dioxide45 said:


> Why do they refer to the Winter Olympics simply as the "Olympic Winter Games" yet the summer Olympics are referred to the "Games of the ## Olympiad".



Probably because the summer ones are in the tradition of the ancient ones, which were also in summer, and the winter ones are newbies?


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## Aussie girl (Mar 6, 2010)

The gold medal hockey game was the most watched sports programe in Canadian television history.

http://communities.canada.com/regin...on-people-watch-canada-u-s-a-hockey-game.aspx


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## dioxide45 (Mar 6, 2010)

It seems the mens Swiss curling team liked the medal ceremony and the girls carrying in the flowers and medals. My wife caught this on the day of and I just watched it again on On Demand. You can see in the background two of the Swiss team members that won bronze making a comments  to each other and grinning bout the rather attractive girl that was carrying in the bouquets for the silver medal winners.


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## BevL (Mar 6, 2010)

Aussie girl said:


> The gold medal hockey game was the most watched sports programe in Canadian television history.
> 
> http://communities.canada.com/regin...on-people-watch-canada-u-s-a-hockey-game.aspx



C'mon, you were watching, weren't you?  I honestly have yet to run into anybody that WASN'T watching.  That includes my mother, who would normally rather have a root canal than watch a hockey game.


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## Luanne (Mar 6, 2010)

BevL said:


> C'mon, you were watching, weren't you?  I honestly have yet to run into anybody that WASN'T watching.  That includes my mother, who would normally rather have a root canal than watch a hockey game.



Well, you've run into someone now.  I didn't watch it.


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## BevL (Mar 6, 2010)

Luanne said:


> Well, you've run into someone now.  I didn't watch it.



Sorry, I should have qualified that.  "North of the 49th I haven't yet run into anyone," and since Aussiegirl lives in Alberta, I expect here TV may have been tuned to CTV last Sunday.


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## dioxide45 (Mar 6, 2010)

I would think that in Canada, just being Canadian would make one watch it. In the US, probably only hockey fans watched the game, perhaps a few others, and us Canadians living below the 49th.


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## Aussie girl (Mar 6, 2010)

Everyone I know was watching, it's all anyone has talked about all week. Even my brother in Australia watched it live.


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## pjrose (Mar 6, 2010)

BevL said:


> Sorry, I should have qualified that.  "North of the 49th I haven't yet run into anyone," and since Aussiegirl lives in Alberta, I expect here TV may have been tuned to CTV last Sunday.



I didn't, and DH was annoyed that he missed it.


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