# Pt at Poipu Special Assesment



## Fisch

https://www.diamondresorts.com/hoa/20111005/PoipuOwnerLetterandInserts.pdf

Don't know if the above link will work unless you are an owner.

The water intrusion project is going to be a big one.  $5893 per week owned.
$2000 this year along with the normal yearly maintenance fees.  the same the following year.

They will take Bldg 4 off line the 2nd half of 2012.  The following years two more buildings will be off line, and the final year will have the last bldg offline for repairs.

I'll be in Kauai later today and can ask questions if anybody has some.  Let me know.

Al

*From the letter:*


*The Project—Extensive Repairs to All Buildings*
Following the investigations and realizing the extent and complexity of the repairs needed, your AOAO Board worked with 
a team of experts including an envelope repair and retrofit designer, a structural repair designer, a local architect as a liaison 
for permitting, and a nationally recognized project manager to establish the scope of the project. In general, the project will 
repair damage to wood framing and replace structural ties, straps and fasteners, as well as structural deficiencies based on 
current building codes. The project is also designed to stop leaks and the conditions causing damage. This will extend the 
service life of the buildings. More specifically, the project includes:
	 • Making roof repairs
	 • Installing new drainage cladding (siding) system and proper flashings
	 • Retrofitting existing structural fasteners and connections
	 • Repairing or replacing wood framing
	 • Installing new structural shear walls
	 • Installing new above-grade and below-grade waterproofing
	 • Repairing or replacing windows and doors
	 • Retrofitting air conditioning units and installing new flashings
	 • Repairing interior finishes as necessary
	 • Permanently replacing all soffits

*Water Intrusion Assessment Cost*
The total amount of the water intrusion assessment, which includes all construction costs, legal and consulting fees, permits, 
Hawaii general excise tax and other items is approximately $65.8 million, or $5,893.32 per interval. 
Project Timeline
The project will start in June 2012 and take approximately five years to complete. The current schedule calls for one 
building, Building 4, to be completed by the end of 2012, two buildings to be completed each year through 2016 and one 
building in the first half of 2017. With buildings being out of service for the next five years, space will be limited; therefore 
if you are planning to visit the resort during this time, please make your reservation early. If you are a fixed unit/week owner 
and your reservation coincides with the time your building is being repaired, you will be notified that your unit will be 
unavailable during that time and you will be moved to another unit. Best efforts will be used to place you in comparable 
accommodations.

*Water Intrusion Project/Association Website*
Additional information and updates can be found at our owners-only website. If you have not used the website before, simply 
go to DiamondResortsHOA.com and enter the same username and password that you have created for DiamondResorts.
com. If you are having difficulty accessing the website, call 1.855.624.4390 to speak to a representative. After you have 
entered your username and password, select “The Point at Poipu” under the drop-down menu and click on the “Water 
Intrusion Project” tab at the top of the page. 
If you are unable to attend any of the meetings, the informational meeting presentation will be posted on the Water Intrusion 
Project page. Several Frequently Asked Questions and photos of the damage are also posted. Please frequent this site for
up-to-date information about The Point at Poipu, the progress of the project and to ask questions


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## T_R_Oglodyte

I've known for years that it was coming and that it was going to be a whopper.  This is bigger than I thought.

Ya gotta hope they do right so that after the job is complete building maintenance will be less since they won't be patching everything as they have been and fixtures will be better protected against rust and salt damage.


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## ronparise

Am I doing the math right?  6000 per interval, 50 intervals per unit =  $300000 per unit?


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## wilma

$65 million....  unbelievable.


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## eal

That kinda money could build a whole new resort!


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## therajman

65 MILLION dollars worth of water damage? What kind of damage can cost this much to fix? 

I find it hard to believe. Isn't this gross negligence? Easier to stiff the owners....


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## Kauai Kid

Is the special assessment the same for all units 1 br, 2 br, and 3 br?

I haven't received anything from Diamond regarding the SA.

Thanks for bad news, 

Sterling


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## Poobah

*Assessment*

I received the email with the amount and when I logged in to get my bill all I got was the error. Don't have a hard copy yet of the bill. 

We have all known that this was coming, like others I didn't expect it to be this large. I think transparancy is called for, to make sure that everyone is paying their fair share of this e.g. DRI is paying for the units they own, what cost has been allocated to the Trust, who is the contractor, what were the other bids, etc. 

DRI could have done a better PR job on this, but PR with the owners doesn't tend to be their strong suit particularly when bad news is involved. No one likes "surprises." 

The Owners Meeting this March is going to be really interesting! 

Cheers,

Paul


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## Kauai Kid

Link worked for me.  Thanks--I think??

Sterling




Fisch said:


> https://www.diamondresorts.com/hoa/20111005/PoipuOwnerLetterandInserts.pdf
> 
> Don't know if the above link will work unless you are an owner.
> 
> The water intrusion project is going to be a big one.  $5893 per week owned.
> $2000 this year along with the normal yearly maintenance fees.  the same the following year.
> 
> They will take Bldg 4 off line the 2nd half of 2012.  The following years two more buildings will be off line, and the final year will have the last bldg offline for repairs.
> 
> I'll be in Kauai later today and can ask questions if anybody has some.  Let me know.
> 
> Al
> 
> *From the letter:*
> 
> 
> *The Project—Extensive Repairs to All Buildings*
> Following the investigations and realizing the extent and complexity of the repairs needed, your AOAO Board worked with
> a team of experts including an envelope repair and retrofit designer, a structural repair designer, a local architect as a liaison
> for permitting, and a nationally recognized project manager to establish the scope of the project. In general, the project will
> repair damage to wood framing and replace structural ties, straps and fasteners, as well as structural deficiencies based on
> current building codes. The project is also designed to stop leaks and the conditions causing damage. This will extend the
> service life of the buildings. More specifically, the project includes:
> • Making roof repairs
> • Installing new drainage cladding (siding) system and proper flashings
> • Retrofitting existing structural fasteners and connections
> • Repairing or replacing wood framing
> • Installing new structural shear walls
> • Installing new above-grade and below-grade waterproofing
> • Repairing or replacing windows and doors
> • Retrofitting air conditioning units and installing new flashings
> • Repairing interior finishes as necessary
> • Permanently replacing all soffits
> 
> *Water Intrusion Assessment Cost*
> The total amount of the water intrusion assessment, which includes all construction costs, legal and consulting fees, permits,
> Hawaii general excise tax and other items is approximately $65.8 million, or $5,893.32 per interval.
> Project Timeline
> The project will start in June 2012 and take approximately five years to complete. The current schedule calls for one
> building, Building 4, to be completed by the end of 2012, two buildings to be completed each year through 2016 and one
> building in the first half of 2017. With buildings being out of service for the next five years, space will be limited; therefore
> if you are planning to visit the resort during this time, please make your reservation early. If you are a fixed unit/week owner
> and your reservation coincides with the time your building is being repaired, you will be notified that your unit will be
> unavailable during that time and you will be moved to another unit. Best efforts will be used to place you in comparable
> accommodations.
> 
> *Water Intrusion Project/Association Website*
> Additional information and updates can be found at our owners-only website. If you have not used the website before, simply
> go to DiamondResortsHOA.com and enter the same username and password that you have created for DiamondResorts.
> com. If you are having difficulty accessing the website, call 1.855.624.4390 to speak to a representative. After you have
> entered your username and password, select “The Point at Poipu” under the drop-down menu and click on the “Water
> Intrusion Project” tab at the top of the page.
> If you are unable to attend any of the meetings, the informational meeting presentation will be posted on the Water Intrusion
> Project page. Several Frequently Asked Questions and photos of the damage are also posted. Please frequent this site for
> up-to-date information about The Point at Poipu, the progress of the project and to ask questions


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## MOXJO7282

So was the reserve grossly underfunded or what? I've never heard of such a significant SA. Any mismanagement going on? 

I really feel sorry for multi-week owners.


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## tvandyke

*Didn't even get a kiss...*

They have called me twice in an attempt to explain.  I'm at a complete loss as to understand how "water intrusion" damage means we have to replace the roof on every building, a bunch of AC units, windows and doors.  

They warned me that they will sue to collect and I won't be able to unload the units to one of those time share escape deals until I've paid the assessment.


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## Kauai Kid

tvandyke said:


> They have called me twice in an attempt to explain.  I'm at a complete loss as to understand how "water intrusion" damage means we have to replace the roof on every building, a bunch of AC units, windows and doors.
> 
> They warned me that they will sue to collect and I won't be able to unload the units to one of those time share escape deals until I've paid the assessment.



They are based in Vegas--that should tell you something.

Sterling


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## MOXJO7282

tvandyke said:


> They have called me twice in an attempt to explain.  I'm at a complete loss as to understand how "water intrusion" damage means we have to replace the roof on every building, a bunch of AC units, windows and doors.
> 
> They warned me that they will sue to collect and I won't be able to unload the units to one of those time share escape deals until I've paid the assessment.



That is missed up. I'm sure there are many owners who bought multiple weeks cheap thinking they had a great value and now they're facing potentially $5.8k per week.


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## lv_maui

*Collection sb interesting*

This is going to be quite interesting to see how the collection is played out.  Normally, I would say that Diamond would not be concerned if people did not pay since they would buy their week from the HOA in exchange for payment of the SA.  Then, they would own a "cheap" week.  But this is not going to be a cheap week for DRI.

Old school timeshare rules say that product cost should be about 25% of the sales price.  $5,893 means that the sales price would be $23,572 per week which is about what the weeks are going for at the Sales center.  But DRI's been selling cheap inventory at much lower than 25% for many years now by taking over foreclosed weeks.

So, I can see where DRI might not want the week back.  Late fees go to the management company so I can see where DRI might want to pursure collection of the money from the owner versus taking back the week.  What I mean is that DRI could really do hard collection because in the past, DRI would just take the week back and collection efforts ended.  Now they may try and collect the $5,893 the hard way by utilizing litigation.  That still would seem to be extremely time consuming.

This will be ground breaking news as this progresses.








tvandyke said:


> They have called me twice in an attempt to explain.  I'm at a complete loss as to understand how "water intrusion" damage means we have to replace the roof on every building, a bunch of AC units, windows and doors.
> 
> They warned me that they will sue to collect and I won't be able to unload the units to one of those time share escape deals until I've paid the assessment.


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## lv_maui

I would predict a class action lawsuit will be filed pretty soon.  There will be all kinds of accusations of mismanagement.  No reserve fund would contemplate this kind of repair.




MOXJO7282 said:


> So was the reserve grossly underfunded or what? I've never heard of such a significant SA. Any mismanagement going on?
> 
> I really feel sorry for multi-week owners.


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## timeos2

This is basically replacing the foundation of a resort "built on sand".  Since DRI did not build this resort - Embassy/Sunterra did - they are likely caught as off  guard as every other owner has been.  No one expects such a basic structural requirement of any large project to be faulty.  It can happen - in this case it did - and the resulting costs can be staggering. Years ago a similar failure played out at a bay side condo my dad once owned - he had sold a few years before it was discovered fortunately - and the costs for that Association for just one small building out of 8 were in the low millions back in 1988!  Today it would be $10 million or more for the same work & to meet new codes.  

What an unfortunate situation but that is the risk you take with any real estate/condo/timeshare purchase. Most don't go this bad but when they do it can be spectacular.  It will be rough on these owners but it has to be done unless the project is terminated by super owner vote - with DRI holding so many weeks and if they want it repaired then termination is not going to be an option.  And even then the costs to secure & sell the property would be very high in this condition so owners are likely better off paying to make things right rather than paying to tear it down. 

It seems the Board already looked into possible lawsuits & found, like so many others, no one from 10+ years ago left with deep pockets to sue.  The Board can't be sued as they certainly didn't cause this.  It is up to the owners to make it right.  I feel sorry for them as they couldn't have known this would occur. Good luck to all involved.


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## MOXJO7282

It terrible to think but you have to figure there are many older owners who are multiweek owners that are getting socked with this. There's noonw that has liability? They talk about a defective system, what about the maker of the system?


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## lv_maui

The History is that a partnership between Argosy Koar and Hal Real Estate acquired the resort that was already built.  It was a failed for-sale condo project.  Argosy Koar became Sunterra and then Sunterra bought out HAL Real Estate.  Then, Sunterra became Diamond.  

It would be interesting if Embassy Suites got dragged into what I see as a for sure class action lawsuit by a group of owners.  Embassy was never an owner but did franchise the resort as Embassy Vacation Resort



timeos2 said:


> This is basically replacing the foundation of a resort "built on sand".  Since DRI did not build this resort - Embassy/Sunterra did - they are likely caught as off  guard as every other owner has been.


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## Barbeque

I wonder how much overhead and profit is in this assessment??

Plus aren't their maintenance fees pretty hefty????????


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## Dollie

*Pictures*

I don’t remember seeing these the first day I read the documents on the HOA sight.  They show what the problems are.  To see them: Log onto the Diamond HOA sight and go to The Point at Poipu; Select either  Water Intrusion Project at the top right of the page or the moving text a little lower down; the project page displays; the last pick in the Information and Photos list has the pictures.


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## artringwald

*Insurance company*

Anybody know which insurance company denied the claim? I wan to make sure that I don't use them.


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## Fisch

We are here now. 
I was talking to a few other owners that sat in one the "owners update"
And apparently if you are unable to pay, to avoid foreclosure, you can sign over your deed at the resort right now and walk away.


Oh yeah, if you but into points, they will cover your special assessment.


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## dougp26364

Fisch said:


> We are here now.
> I was talking to a few other owners that sat in one the "owners update"
> And apparently if you are unable to pay, to avoid foreclosure, you can sign over your deed at the resort right now and walk away.
> 
> 
> Oh yeah, if you but into points, they will cover your special assessment.



At least they are taking deed backs. I'm pretty certain I read somewhere that someone had called and was told this was no longer an option. The deed back program seems to be a mystery to DRI phone reps when people call and ask about it. 

As for buying into trust points, I'd be asking how this special assessment will be rolled into the trust point MF's, what they were last year and what they are for 2012. If the answer is they haven't been calculated as of yet, I'd be leary.


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## T_R_Oglodyte

dougp26364 said:


> At least they are taking deed backs. I'm pretty certain I read somewhere that someone had called and was told this was no longer an option. The deed back program seems to be a mystery to DRI phone reps when people call and ask about it.
> 
> As for buying into trust points, I'd be asking how this special assessment will be rolled into the trust point MF's, what they were last year and what they are for 2012. If the answer is they haven't been calculated as of yet, I'd be leary.



The DRI phone reps are clueless about the deedback program. DRI only seems to talk about it at the DRI owner message boards.  

Yesterday someone who was 15000 point owner in the Hawaii Collection posted their breakdown of fees for 2012.


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## dougp26364

T_R_Oglodyte said:


> The DRI phone reps are clueless about the deedback program. DRI only seems to talk about it at the DRI owner message boards.
> 
> Yesterday someone who was 15000 point owner in the Hawaii Collection posted their breakdown of fees for 2012.



I memory serves me correctly, you have to locate and contact the loss mitigation dept.


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## Bloopie

Fisch said:


> We are here now.
> I was talking to a few other owners that sat in one the "owners update"
> And apparently if you are unable to pay, to avoid foreclosure, you can sign over your deed at the resort right now and walk away.
> 
> 
> Oh yeah, if you but into points, they will cover your special assessment.



Do you you know who to call to talk about deedbacks? I talked to a phone rep 2 days ago and they said no deedbacks. Please give me that that info. I am desperate to get rid of this timeshare.


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## Bloopie

T_R_Oglodyte said:


> The DRI phone reps are clueless about the deedback program. DRI only seems to talk about it at the DRI owner message boards.
> 
> Yesterday someone who was 15000 point owner in the Hawaii Collection posted their breakdown of fees for 2012.




Where are these DRI owner message boards at? I've gone to their website and couldn't find it. Nothing shows up on Google either.


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## T_R_Oglodyte

Bloopie said:


> Where are these DRI owner message boards at? I've gone to their website and couldn't find it. Nothing shows up on Google either.



Log in at the DRI website, then click on the link for "Member Forums". You have to be logged in for the link to appear.  It doesn't show on the general page.


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## dougp26364

Bloopie said:


> Do you you know who to call to talk about deedbacks? I talked to a phone rep 2 days ago and they said no deedbacks. Please give me that that info. I am desperate to get rid of this timeshare.



As mentioned, the phone reps generally don't know about this. Try asking to be connected to the loss mitigation dept or, you could call the Point directly and ask them. If the sales team there is telling people deed back is an option you'd like to think someone there will know who to contact.

Keep in mind that, the reports from the past indicate DRI will require you pay 2013's MF's and pay the transfer costs for them to take the deed back. It's still going to cost you a years MF's but, if you're in a position that you don't want to face the SA then it might be the best offer on the table. I can't imagine it would be very easy to even give these weeks away on E-bay.

Keep in mind that I have not personally spoked with DRI about deed backs. I'm only speaking from memory about what I've read here on TUG and elsewhere. It's only a couple of ideas that might help you with your search.


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## tschwa2

If you want to try to do a deed back I would push hard for it NOW.  DRI has said that the SA included a certain number of defaults in their calculations.  If they are still letting some people deed back then more default, there will be additional SA's and increases in MF's.  So if this is going to cause a death spiral it won't be quick and those holding on thinking they will be able to ride through the hard times to get a resort that was better than before may find themselves on the hook for $5000, $7000 or $10,000 or more for each owned week.

Also push hard for the board to call for a vote asking all owners to choose to close the resort or fix the resort.  Get multiple estimates incuding reopening a smaller resort.  DRI shouldn't get to resell the empty units that the HOA accepted deedbacks, on repairs paid for by the remaining owners.


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## Farmtek

I am suspicious any time I deal with timeshare people.   I think there is more to this than appears on the surface. Why would a smart bunch like Diamond buy into a damaged property?  What is Diamonds financial picture right now?   What about an insurance company that will not pay? What about a roof repair that will cost 65 million dollars?  Has anyone seen a copy of the insurance plan, or the response by the insurance company?  Did the insurance company estimate the damages?  Can we get an assessment of the damages by another source, such as building inspectors for the State of Hawaii?  Should the owners be willing to shell out 65 million until we have a better picture?


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## Bloopie

I called loss and mitigation, aka collections, and they told me DRI was not accepting surrenders and have not for at least a month. This pissed the hell out of me because I've been wanting to get rid of my timeshare for years. I was told my only option was selling it. If I knew I could just surrender it, I would have done it a long time ago. This whole situation is sickening.


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## Luv2Travel2000

*Email CEO and get a Call*

Today I wrote an email to DRI CEO Stephen Cloobeck and within 30 mins a representative from his office, Sarah Hulme, called me. If anyone emails the CEO I bet they'll be called (maybe the next day since it's late now). It was a good time to vent. She listened, sounded concerned, and gave some generic answers. They are trying to connect. She strongly encouraged me to attend the meeting in San Francisco on the 20th and saved me a couple seats. Said a lot of answers with respect to the Water Intrusion Assessment would be forthcoming. So, if anyone wants to receive a call and talk, email stephenjcloobeck@diamondresorts.com. She or someone will answer whatever question you have. She also sent me her email address if I have any questions about the Special Assessment issue.


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## petekrantz

*deed surrender*

If anyone gets a actual human that will accept deeds back please let me know.
I have a feeling this is going to get more and more expensive, they have to make up lost revenue from "walk-aways" and if the go over budget on construction cost etc.....with water damage you have no idea what you have until the unit is stripped.

Thank you this forum has been great!!
petekrantz@cox.net


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## cbecchetti

*Information on for those on site or that attend meetings*

If DRI is only explaining options when you are on site or when you go to the events, then not all owners are being treated equally.   I will be making a call or sending an email - I can't travel to CA from MN to discuss this and take time off work.   With technology the way it is, why not do a virtual meeting, use skype, etc........


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## T_R_Oglodyte

Bloopie said:


> I called loss and mitigation, aka collections, and they told me DRI was not accepting surrenders and have not for at least a month. This pissed the hell out of me because I've been wanting to get rid of my timeshare for years. I was told my only option was selling it. If I knew I could just surrender it, I would have done it a long time ago. This whole situation is sickening.



Thanks for the info. That's an update, because as of about a month ago they were still telling people at the Member Forums that DRI was accepting deedbacks if all fees were current, no loans were outstanding, current years fees were paid, and there were no reservations or other commitments made for the current years usage.

It's also possible that the deedback option has only been available to owners in a trust and not to deeded owners.


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## bogey21

What assurances do we have that enough owners will fork over enough money to do what needs to be done?  My gut tells me that getting the money will be an expensive, drawn out process.

George


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## Carolinian

Doesn't DRI control both the management and the HOA board here?  Are there any non-DRI nominated members on the HOA board?  Don't the individual members have a majority of unit-weeks and therefore votes in the HOA?  If you don't think DRI is treating you right, including stonewalling this info until the last minute, then it seems to me the way to go is to try to oust DRI members and elect an independent board.  Of course, that is something that any timeshare should have in the first place after developer sales have largely finished.




MOXJO7282 said:


> So was the reserve grossly underfunded or what? I've never heard of such a significant SA. Any mismanagement going on?
> 
> I really feel sorry for multi-week owners.


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## cgeidl

*Will this resort go bankrupt?*

I can't imagine owners paying such a huge assessment as this.Your offer is extremely generous but this seems like a high risk resort with legal matters going on for years.The previos owner may also be sued for disclosure issues whether they knew or not. Great location and views. Lots of luck finding someone to take the risk.


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## Beefnot

Will the property be unavailable during their big renovation or will it be a section by section thing?


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## Fisch

Beefnot said:


> Will the property be unavailable during their big renovation or will it be a section by section thing?



Looks like one building will go offline for 6 months until all are finished.  Starting with Bldg 4 next fall.


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## Carolinian

Info on another board is that three of the five board members, a majority, are employees of management.  This is a massive conflict of interest and should absolutely not be tolerated.

Also, apparently management and the board have been willfully violating Hawaii law for some time in refusing to give owners a membership list when one was demanded.  Hawaii law, like that of most states, requires them to do so but they refuse.  When you have management that is clearly prone to illegal behavior, as this example clearly shows, then you do have a real problem.


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## pseda

Hi Al:

My husband and I still find this whole thing astounding; especially when we've been paying for maintenance since resort inception 1995. Why was this not caught before it became so extensive? What type of maintenance was being done all along? We really question the denial by the insurance co as well. We'd like to see the letter from insurance company as well as actual policy coverage. Also, where are the notes that determined to not go after insurance denial vs deciding to assess owners this astronomical fee. Then, the audacity to just dump it on us with letter re: collections etc if not paid. This isn't how you do business and we find it terribly offensive. We have 7 weeks at the resort and now, can't even donate them away secondary to fee we don't approve of. Please keep us posted as to what's occurring re: this issue. I have searched many hours and unable to come up with other owners to see what the general consensus is.

Sincerely


Joan and Peter Seda
psedamd@charter.net


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## pseda

Please pass on information to us as well. We are so disillusioned that we are also ready to just walk away, even owning 7 weeks. The writing is on the wall as to the future and method of maintenance by Diamond resorts. What a disappointment!

Joan and Peter Seda
psedamd@charter.net


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## pseda

Would be chearper for DRI to go after the insurance denial!!


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## lv_maui

*Owner's List*

I have heard this about the infamous owner's list.

Recently, the governor signed new legislation that directly addressed this issue because the condo docs do state that an owner can have access to the list.  However, giving the owner list out violates privacy rules.  

It is my understanding that the law states that you must have the permission of the owner to be given a copy of their information as part of the list.  So, DRI would have to ask the current owners if they wanted their information distributed to anyone that wants the owner's list.  But why would DRI want do that for us with this in mind.

In the end, us as owners would have to have permission from the owners to be give the owners list.  If we do not have the list to start with, we cannot get the permission!!  It is as stupid as it sounds!!

Again, this is my understanding and why the previous Concerned Deeded Owners of PP group have really disappeared.  The law has made it impossible to move forward.



Carolinian said:


> Info on another board is that three of the five board members, a majority, are employees of management.  This is a massive conflict of interest and should absolutely not be tolerated.
> 
> Also, apparently management and the board have been willfully violating Hawaii law for some time in refusing to give owners a membership list when one was demanded.  Hawaii law, like that of most states, requires them to do so but they refuse.  When you have management that is clearly prone to illegal behavior, as this example clearly shows, then you do have a real problem.


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## pseda

We, the owners, need an organizer who has the time to take this on. My husband and I work full time so can't do ourselves, but are willing to back someone. Is there someone who's stepping forward that anyone knows about. Can we start an owners list ourselves and get legal representation to take resort on?


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## Kauaigrl00

<<<Again, this is my understanding and why the previous Concerned Deeded Owners of PP group have really disappeared.  The law has made it impossible to move forward.[/QUOTE]>>

I have heard that they may be making a comeback and have more help - it was too much work for the few that they had assisting them.  I would still encourage owners to go to the site and find the contact persons and email them to let them know you are owners if you haven't in the past - maybe the only way they will ever get names - I believe there is only like 500 names so far.

http://poipuowners.org/Contact_Us.html


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## pseda

I read in the many blogs re: the water intrusion project that the builder was at fault etc. If you read information on the following website, you will totally understand why the resort is having issues. Poor maintenance planning, which we've all been funding for years/decades:

Cost Savings of Extending Useful Life of Major Property Components
prevent water intrusion and the resulting damage. Usually ... rior paint or seal is 
mostly cracked, peeled and faded to the point water easily .... nual contribution) 
less than the prior RUL projection of 6 years ($48000/6= ..... Villas at Poipu Kai ...

www.sandwichisle.com/docs/blog/2011-04-CAI-Newsletter.pdf - Cached - Similar


**Maybe this is why Diamond Resorts is trying to rush things through.


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## Bloopie

Here's an article I found. Maybe this explains why that group seems to have lost steam? 

http://thegardenisland.com/news/local/article_62738842-25d1-11df-9bb8-001cc4c03286.html

Also, the owner's meeting in Irvine, CA is today. I wonder if there is anyone on this board that is attending it that can fill us in on what is said. 






Kauaigrl00 said:


> <<<Again, this is my understanding and why the previous Concerned Deeded Owners of PP group have really disappeared.  The law has made it impossible to move forward.


>>

I have heard that they may be making a comeback and have more help - it was too much work for the few that they had assisting them.  I would still encourage owners to go to the site and find the contact persons and email them to let them know you are owners if you haven't in the past - maybe the only way they will ever get names - I believe there is only like 500 names so far.

http://poipuowners.org/Contact_Us.html[/QUOTE]


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## Bloopie

The problem is how do you walk away? I would love to walk away and would even be willing to pay the transfer fee. The problem is that DRI won't take the timeshare back. If you know of another way, please let me know!




pseda said:


> Please pass on information to us as well. We are so disillusioned that we are also ready to just walk away, even owning 7 weeks. The writing is on the wall as to the future and method of maintenance by Diamond resorts. What a disappointment!
> 
> Joan and Peter Seda
> psedamd@charter.net


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## Kauaigrl00

<<. Maybe this explains why that group seems to have lost steam?
>>

No that had nothing to do with them losing steam - they needed help from owners and were not getting it - 500 out of what - thousands??  They needed the owners list to get a hold of people.


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## T_R_Oglodyte

Bloopie said:


> The problem is how do you walk away? I would love to walk away and would even be willing to pay the transfer fee. The problem is that DRI won't take the timeshare back. If you know of another way, please let me know!



At about 8:30 am this morning, at the DRI Member Forums "CeliaD", who is one of the official DRI representatives on the Member Forums, responded to someone's inquiry about a buyback program by pointing the person back to a post from Aug 4 that discussed DRI's voluntary surrender program. That gives some reason to believe that the Voluntary Surrender program might still be in effect. Note, BTW, that the terminology appears to be extremely important.  If you ask DRI if they have a "buyback program" or "resale program" they will say "no".  If you ask the right person if they have a Voluntary Surrender program they might say "yes".

I suggest you visit the member forums, open the thread on "Surrender of Ownership" in the forum on "North America - Using Points & Membership", and ask point blank if the Voluntary Surrender Program is still in effect.


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## FanFiltration

There will be a meeting regarding this special assessment in the San Francisco area on Thursday October, 20th. I plan to be there with a fellow owner. I'll take notes, and will be sure to post back here.

DRI The Point at Poipu (water intrusion) 
Meeting time / Location:

7:00 P.M. October 20th
Embassy Suites
150 Anza Blvd.
San Francisco Airport Waterfront 
RSVP 855-624-4390

FF


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## Bloopie

Thank you. I went ahead and posted a reply asking that. I called collections last week and was told no surrenders. I hope that will be an option. 



T_R_Oglodyte said:


> At about 8:30 am this morning, at the DRI Member Forums "CeliaD", who is one of the official DRI representatives on the Member Forums, responded to someone's inquiry about a buyback program by pointing the person back to a post from Aug 4 that discussed DRI's voluntary surrender program. That gives some reason to believe that the Voluntary Surrender program might still be in effect. Note, BTW, that the terminology appears to be extremely important.  If you ask DRI if they have a "buyback program" or "resale program" they will say "no".  If you ask the right person if they have a Voluntary Surrender program they might say "yes".
> 
> I suggest you visit the member forums, open the thread on "Surrender of Ownership" in the forum on "North America - Using Points & Membership", and ask point blank if the Voluntary Surrender Program is still in effect.


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## pseda

How did the meeting go? Did anyone ask about a special vote by the owners? Haven't had time to look it up but does it state in the owners policy that the resort managers are to inform and allow us to vote on special assessments? Appreciate any information.


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## T_R_Oglodyte

pseda said:


> How did the meeting go? Did anyone ask about a special vote by the owners? Haven't had time to look it up but does it state in the owners policy that the resort managers are to inform and allow us to vote on special assessments? Appreciate any information.



What it says about special assessment is that the Board can set special assessments and owners are obligated to pay them. There is no requirement to hold a vote, conduct informational meetings, share documents, etc.  The Board, acting in it's infinite wisdom as our duly elected representatives, decides what we will pay. 

 It's just like taxes. We elect our senators and representatives to represent us, and they decide how much we will pay.


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## JohnandSue

There is a group forming to fight this assessment, if you are an owner and are interested in getting on list,
 contact solstammy@charter.net


Fisch said:


> https://www.diamondresorts.com/hoa/20111005/PoipuOwnerLetterandInserts.pdf
> 
> Don't know if the above link will work unless you are an owner.
> 
> The water intrusion project is going to be a big one.  $5893 per week owned.
> $2000 this year along with the normal yearly maintenance fees.  the same the following year.
> 
> They will take Bldg 4 off line the 2nd half of 2012.  The following years two more buildings will be off line, and the final year will have the last bldg offline for repairs.
> 
> I'll be in Kauai later today and can ask questions if anybody has some.  Let me know.
> 
> Al
> 
> *From the letter:*
> 
> 
> *The Project—Extensive Repairs to All Buildings*
> Following the investigations and realizing the extent and complexity of the repairs needed, your AOAO Board worked with
> a team of experts including an envelope repair and retrofit designer, a structural repair designer, a local architect as a liaison
> for permitting, and a nationally recognized project manager to establish the scope of the project. In general, the project will
> repair damage to wood framing and replace structural ties, straps and fasteners, as well as structural deficiencies based on
> current building codes. The project is also designed to stop leaks and the conditions causing damage. This will extend the
> service life of the buildings. More specifically, the project includes:
> • Making roof repairs
> • Installing new drainage cladding (siding) system and proper flashings
> • Retrofitting existing structural fasteners and connections
> • Repairing or replacing wood framing
> • Installing new structural shear walls
> • Installing new above-grade and below-grade waterproofing
> • Repairing or replacing windows and doors
> • Retrofitting air conditioning units and installing new flashings
> • Repairing interior finishes as necessary
> • Permanently replacing all soffits
> 
> *Water Intrusion Assessment Cost*
> The total amount of the water intrusion assessment, which includes all construction costs, legal and consulting fees, permits,
> Hawaii general excise tax and other items is approximately $65.8 million, or $5,893.32 per interval.
> Project Timeline
> The project will start in June 2012 and take approximately five years to complete. The current schedule calls for one
> building, Building 4, to be completed by the end of 2012, two buildings to be completed each year through 2016 and one
> building in the first half of 2017. With buildings being out of service for the next five years, space will be limited; therefore
> if you are planning to visit the resort during this time, please make your reservation early. If you are a fixed unit/week owner
> and your reservation coincides with the time your building is being repaired, you will be notified that your unit will be
> unavailable during that time and you will be moved to another unit. Best efforts will be used to place you in comparable
> accommodations.
> 
> *Water Intrusion Project/Association Website*
> Additional information and updates can be found at our owners-only website. If you have not used the website before, simply
> go to DiamondResortsHOA.com and enter the same username and password that you have created for DiamondResorts.
> com. If you are having difficulty accessing the website, call 1.855.624.4390 to speak to a representative. After you have
> entered your username and password, select “The Point at Poipu” under the drop-down menu and click on the “Water
> Intrusion Project” tab at the top of the page.
> If you are unable to attend any of the meetings, the informational meeting presentation will be posted on the Water Intrusion
> Project page. Several Frequently Asked Questions and photos of the damage are also posted. Please frequent this site for
> up-to-date information about The Point at Poipu, the progress of the project and to ask questions


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## JohnandSue

Bloopie said:


> The problem is how do you walk away? I would love to walk away and would even be willing to pay the transfer fee. The problem is that DRI won't take the timeshare back. If you know of another way, please let me know!



There is a group forming to fight this assessment.  If you are an owner and want to get on a list to get information please contact solstammy@charter.net


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## JohnandSue

pseda said:


> How did the meeting go? Did anyone ask about a special vote by the owners? Haven't had time to look it up but does it state in the owners policy that the resort managers are to inform and allow us to vote on special assessments? Appreciate any information.



Check out Facebook "Point of Poipu Angry Owners", there is a lot of information.  There is a group of owners uniting.


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## T_R_Oglodyte

JohnandSue said:


> Check out Facebook "Point of Poipu Angry Owners", there is a lot of information.  There is a group of owners uniting.



That search term doesn't return anything on Facebook.  Edit I found it when I searched "Poipu Point"; don't know why it didn't show with the other search term.


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## Carolinian

T_R_Oglodyte said:


> What it says about special assessment is that the Board can set special assessments and owners are obligated to pay them. There is no requirement to hold a vote, conduct informational meetings, share documents, etc.  The Board, acting in it's infinite wisdom as our duly elected representatives, decides what we will pay.
> 
> It's just like taxes. We elect our senators and representatives to represent us, and they decide how much we will pay.



Timeshares whose governing documents require a member vote on a special assessment do exist in timesharing, and I have owned at a couple of them, but they are a distinct minority and mostly member-controlled resorts.

If members can snag contol away from DRI, perhaps they could amend governing instruments there to insert this requirement.

Members do not generally object to a needed and well planned special assessment.  The one that has been brought to a vote by members at a resort I owned at where members had to vote on them, passed unanimously.


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## sb_sparky

pseda said:


> Hi Al:
> 
> My husband and I still find this whole thing astounding; especially when we've been paying for maintenance since resort inception 1995. Why was this not caught before it became so extensive? What type of maintenance was being done all along? We really question the denial by the insurance co as well. We'd like to see the letter from insurance company as well as actual policy coverage. Also, where are the notes that determined to not go after insurance denial vs deciding to assess owners this astronomical fee. Then, the audacity to just dump it on us with letter re: collections etc if not paid. This isn't how you do business and we find it terribly offensive. We have 7 weeks at the resort and now, can't even donate them away secondary to fee we don't approve of. Please keep us posted as to what's occurring re: this issue. I have searched many hours and unable to come up with other owners to see what the general consensus is.
> 
> Sincerely
> 
> 
> Joan and Peter Seda
> psedamd@charter.net




We are sending you a message now...

We have owned at Diamond Resort's Point at Poipu since 2005 and have been current on our fees since we purchased our timeshare.  It seems like there is a serious lack of information, we had no idea of this “special assessment” until the bill arrived!  We are in shock and also would like to know what the general consensus of the ownership is.  

Please keep us informed, we have no idea how we are going to pay these fees and are wondering if there are any other options.


.


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## bkahoona1

*mess at poipu point*

[_Text of this post has been removed at the request of the poster, as a condition of a legal agreement with Diamond Resorts._ - Makai Guy, BBS Administrator]


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## Carolinian

T_R_Oglodyte said:


> What it says about special assessment is that the Board can set special assessments and owners are obligated to pay them. There is no requirement to hold a vote, conduct informational meetings, share documents, etc.  The Board, acting in it's infinite wisdom as our duly elected representatives, decides what we will pay.
> 
> It's just like taxes. We elect our senators and representatives to represent us, and they decide how much we will pay.



. . . and if senators and representatives tax too much or otherwise fail to represent their constituents properly, then we vote them out.  In this case, the incestuous relationship of having an HOA board controlled by the management company is something that cries out to be remedied.


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## pedro47

I wish Diamond would stretch the special assessment payment plan over a five year period and allow owners to pay on a monthly bases.


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## T_R_Oglodyte

pedro47 said:


> I wish Diamond would stretch the special assessment payment plan over a five year period and allow owners to pay on a monthly bases.



Given the cash flow requirements for a construction project cash has to be available ahead of the work.  Since the project is being funded on a pay-as-you-go basis (probably rightly so since they HOA does not have any assets that a bank is likely to consider as collateral for a loan), they really can't stretch things out much from the current schedule without also stretching out the time frame for the project.  And the more time you add to a project the more contingencies contractors will need to add to their bids, which in turn means the overall cost for the project increases.

I think monthly payment is worth considering, particularly if that is done via automatic deduction or credit card charge, so that resources are not wasted sending out monthly bills.


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## Kpaul

ronparise said:


> Am I doing the math right?  6000 per interval, 50 intervals per unit =  $300000 per unit?



I like the way you think!  Hard to believe that they are going to spend $300K per unit for these issues and I'm a builder.
I would have to go back and look at the actual "construction" costs allocated to the assessment but a rough guess is about 80% making the "actual construction costs" around $240K per unit.  
Diamond is getting the owners to pay for these units to be upgraded and then they will price out the owners with their ridiculous management fees.  Then they will own units that you paid twice for, once when you purchased it and then once more when you remodeled it for Diamond Resorts. 

I can't wait to see some negative press on this BS  

I found this website and they have been actively communicating with owners. Their website was hacked and it looked like it was abandoned but I've seen a lot of good information that strongly indicates that they are actively pursuing options against the current management. 

www.poipuowners.org
and another website that is very active on Facebook Point of Poipu Angry Owners
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Point-of-Poipu-Angry-Owners/148027451960608


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## Kpaul

I strongly disagree with those that believe that Diamond is not somewhat responsible because they didn't build it, they inherited from Sunterra.

Do you really believe that you would just jump in a buy or acquire a resort without any inspections or due diligence?  Come on, a first-time home buyer is smart enough to take those steps.

Diamond inspected the property when they first came in, besides, Sunterra is Diamond....  the same employees that worked at Sunterra either worked for or still work for Diamond.  These employees had to know something about the resort, besides the fact that it is a cash cow for DRI.

Did anyone really look at the 2012 VAO & AOAO Combined Budgets? 
Besides being paid to oversee the construction project, they are billing out *$3,265,745 for Management Fees & "Corporate" Admin Fees*.
Plus an additional $612,732 for admin fees at the resort.......


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## dougp26364

pedro47 said:


> I wish Diamond would stretch the special assessment payment plan over a five year period and allow owners to pay on a monthly bases.



If you create a log on at DRI's website, you havea a monthly payment option and, you can pay whatever amount you want to pay each month. You're still going to have to pay the minimum MF and SA by the end of the year but, you can vary your monthly payments to match your monthly needs. I've been paying our MF's this way for the last couple of years. 

Here's the website.  https://www.diamondresorts.com/index.aspx  All you need to do is register for your online account and you can make monthly payments direct from your checking account, savings account or, I believe you can also put it on a credit card just in case you're collecting some sort of rewards points.


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## dougp26364

Kpaul said:


> I strongly disagree with those that believe that Diamond is not somewhat responsible because they didn't build it, they inherited from Sunterra.
> 
> Do you really believe that you would just jump in a buy or acquire a resort without any inspections or due diligence?  Come on, a first-time home buyer is smart enough to take those steps.
> 
> Diamond inspected the property when they first came in, besides, Sunterra is Diamond....  the same employees that worked at Sunterra either worked for or still work for Diamond.  These employees had to know something about the resort, besides the fact that it is a cash cow for DRI.
> 
> Did anyone really look at the 2012 VAO & AOAO Combined Budgets?
> Besides being paid to oversee the construction project, they are billing out *$3,265,745 for Management Fees & "Corporate" Admin Fees*.
> Plus an additional $612,732 for admin fees at the resort.......



Do you really believe any management company is capable of inspecting over 100 resorts when you're buying another company out of bankruptcy? 

If you're placing blame, maybe you should look at the powers that be with Sunterra who all but ignored what had to be a known problem while they were in the drivers seat.

And who's to say they didn't know there was a problem? They may have know there was an issue but not the full extent of the problem. They may have also believed that there was a legitimate chance of litigation against the original contractor or a chance at an insurance claim, only to find out after a couple of years that those were dry wells. 

The problem for owners is simple, there is a major structural issue with the resort. Pointing fingers now won't make that go away. There appears to be but one option and that's to fix the resort. It wouldn't matter if it's DRI, Sunterra, the original builder or the next management company to come along should the owners be able to oust DRI. You're still stuck with the same issue. You MUST fix the structural problems of the resort.


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## T_R_Oglodyte

Kpaul said:


> I strongly disagree with those that believe that Diamond is not somewhat responsible because they didn't build it, they inherited from Sunterra.
> 
> Do you really believe that you would just jump in a buy or acquire a resort without any inspections or due diligence?  Come on, a first-time home buyer is smart enough to take those steps.



Just curious - when you hire someone to inspect a house before you purchase it, do you require that the inspector remove the exterior siding and sheathing in three or four areas around the house to inspect for damage? Does your inspector remove panels of sheetrock in the kitchens and bathrooms to check for evidence of leakage from plumbing?

If not, how do you assure yourself that the house you're buying doesn't have concealed damage?


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## craigrow

T_R_Oglodyte said:


> Just curious - when you hire someone to inspect a house before you purchase it, do you require that the inspector remove the exterior siding and sheathing in three or four areas around the house to inspect for damage? Does your inspector remove panels of sheetrock in the kitchens and bathrooms to check for evidence of leakage from plumbing?
> 
> If not, how do you assure yourself that the house you're buying doesn't have concealed damage?



 ..........


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## T_R_Oglodyte

Kpaul said:


> I strongly disagree with those that believe that Diamond is not somewhat responsible because they didn't build it, they inherited from Sunterra.
> 
> Do you really believe that you would just jump in a buy or acquire a resort without any inspections or due diligence?  Come on, a first-time home buyer is smart enough to take those steps.


Let's see - the resort was almost entirely sold out at the time that DRI took over Sunterra. IIRC the sales level was about 90%, maybe more.

Are you really, seriously suggesting that DRI is financially liable for paying for damage to the 90% of the units that were bought before it was even involved with the resort??? 

The logic here totally escapes me.  If were to buy two units in an existing condo project, and it were later found that the building had substantial problems that I didn't identify when I did my inspection, I would expect to pay my share for the condos that I bought.  I certainly wouldn't expect to pay *extra *for the repairs to the *entire* project simply because the inspection I did for my units didn't reveal that there was pervasive damage in the entire building.

******

There is a common thread running through many comments, such as yours, that _"DRI bought the resort"_, as if the site were like some resort hotel that rents rooms by the night or week.  DRI didn't buy the resort; they bought about 5% to 10% of the units at the resort, plus the company that holds the contract to manage the resort and the right to conduct sales operations on site.

The resort is owned by those who own the deeds.  Personally, while I certainly understand the frustration, I get a bit exasperated sometimes reading comments from people who hold deeds at the resort but don't realize that makes *them *the owners.


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## timeos2

*Oone group -two fights*

The owners are understandably upset about this and looking for someone to blame. It appears the Board/DRI has already exhausted the options for such a recovery for the most part - with only those that purchased very recently holding a tiny hope that the disclosure they were given did not adequately cover the damage now being scheduled for repair - and as all too often occurs either the time to recover or the companies involved are long gone. Further legal action would only add to costs with near zero chanc of any additional recovery.

Sooner or later the owners have to realize they have two issues now. One is getting the resort repaired and paying for it. That isn't going away no matter what.

The second is a long lingering issue that while the individual owners control 63% or so of the votes they have allowed a minority to take and hold control of the Association by failing to exercise their voting power. Maybe this is the wake up call for that silent group but history says that beyond the relative handful now claiming foul the vast majority will remain silent and things will continue as they are.  

It takes a truly organized and well funded group to dislodge any entrenched management.  So far these owners have not shown the will or interest in actually taking control of the resort but are only moaning about a problem that the management did not create but has to handle. 

The earlier attempt they made through that owners group appears to have tried and even raised money but then fell apart. Now they can't even get their website updated it seems so the chances of any success don't look too good. 

In any case they have two different battles not one.  The main source of contention - the repairs/cost - isn't going away no matter what they do or don't accomplish with the effort to change management.


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## Poobah

*Taxation w/o Representation*

The situation at the P@P is that HOA and AOAO represent a minority interest in the resort. Steve's point is well taken that most of the deeded owners don't realize they are part owners of the resort. It has always frustrated me that people don't take an active interest in the care and feeding of this piece of paradise. 

Hopefully this will be a wakeup call to the apathetic deeded owners to get involved and take an interest in what is going on.

Looking at some of the other sites that have threads on the subject (Facebook and Redweek.com) this has been a wake-up call for the Trust members as well. There are post from owners at KBR wondering why they are paying for repairs at P@P, they don't even go there. The reason is simple: you agreed to it when you surrendered your deed. I suspect that the Trustees are also going to get a dose of frustration as well.

The subtlies of the organizational relationships that Steve has pointed out (several times) is the way we should deal with this. It is difficult for people to appreciate this because the pervaiseness of DRI thoughout the VOA/AOAO, the Trustees, and the Management Company. IMHO it is the organizational equivalent of a Mobius Strip!

If you read the letter to the owners that accompanies the MF, the DRI is never mentioned.

The bottom line nothing is going to change until the VOA/AOAO represents the majority interest in the resort. That is never going to happen unless apathetic owners get off their duffs and get proactive. We can always hope!

Cheers,

Paul


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## Kauai Kid

*Concerned Deeded Owners Point at Poipu*

I thought this organization was dead. 

It has a new name:  PoipuOwners.org  

They are still fighting Diamond over the Point at Poipu Special Assessment for water intrusion.

Sterling


----------

