# Article on rebranding of Diamond Properties



## trippka (Dec 12, 2021)

Diamond Resorts absorbed by Hilton. What does it mean for Diamond owners? | European Consumer Claims (ECC) (mynewsdesk.com)


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## dougp26364 (Dec 12, 2021)

You’d almost think those who wrote this article knew very little about DRI, or their predecessor Sunterra. Seems they’ve forgotten about the “scambulence”

DRI is/was a step below the top brands like Hilton, Marriott, Westin and DVC. What does the writer of this article expect? DRI suddenly has the quality and resort placement that makes them all Platinum five star status? Perhaps they’ve forgotten what happened with their MF’s when DRI took over Sunterra, and others, with the forced upgrades to the resorts. At least Hilton hasn’t told them, “We’re upgrading all the DRI resorts to HGVC standards”.

They’re assuming second class citizen status, even before plans are laid out to ingrate the two systems. Has anyone ever seen someone lose benefits that are in writing? It’s highly unlikely DRI members will lose anything they already have, and of course they’ll be offered something that may look better. I suppose DRI never tried to upgrade any of their owners right?

I really don’t know what this article intended to do other than stir the pot and create fear.


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## Bill4728 (Dec 20, 2021)

DRI is well known for it treatment ( or ill-treatment) of single resort owners and resale owners.  If you didn't buy directly from DRI you're not part of "the Club" and  your ability to use all the DRI resorts is significantly restricted.   On the other hand HGVC is well known for its great treatment of the all owners of HGVC resorts ( direct buyers and resale buyers). 

Odd to see anyone try to make HGVC the "heavy" and DRI as the "mistreated" in light of their pervious behaviors.


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## goaliedave (Dec 22, 2021)

I heard today that rebranding will start mid Jan 2022, 10 properties rebranded as the new HVC with others added every month as required renovations complete. Orlando Grande Villas just upgraded building A and will continue with other buildings. CYPRESS POINTE gets elevators 2024 so no rebranding until that's done.

4 resorts will go to the higher end HGCV - Cabo, Orlando Mystic Dunes, Kaanapali, Poipu. My guess is that HGVC will rebrand Mystic Dunes 1st as their annual LPGA golf tourney comes soon (Jan 20-23) and they've rebranded the tournament and the $1 million "tent" for music- dining- cigar lounge needs lead time to put up. Hilton doesn't have a suitable resort in Orlando other than perhaps Le Soleil which might have room.


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## goaliedave (Dec 22, 2021)

And they're near finished merging the Diamond Point system with Hilton, Diamond points will be cut to match HGVC schedule for the new lower HVC brand. I'll be sad to lose the great Diamond exclusives like Club Solo and 75% off sales, fingers crossed.


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## dayooper (Dec 22, 2021)

goaliedave said:


> I heard today that rebranding will start mid Jan 2022, 10 properties rebranded as the new HVC with others added every month as required renovations complete. Orlando Grande Villas just upgraded building A and will continue with other buildings. CYPRESS POINTE gets elevators 2024 so no rebranding until that's done.
> 
> 4 resorts will go to the higher end HGCV - Cabo, Orlando Mystic Dunes, Kaanapali, Poipu. My guess is that HGVC will rebrand Mystic Dunes 1st as their annual LPGA golf tourney comes soon (Jan 20-23) and they've rebranded the tournament and the $1 million "tent" for music- dining- cigar lounge needs lead time to put up. Hilton doesn't have a suitable resort in Orlando other than perhaps Le Soleil which might have room.



Where did you hear this? Not that I don’t believe you (you have been a great source of info since before the merger), I’m just curious where this is coming from. Mystic Dunes is in the Hilton Honors system as HVC, but that could be a place holder until the announcement is made.

If comes to fruition, this would be adding 13 resorts from DRI to HGVC. The 4 you mentioned plus the 9 Embarc resorts.


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## pedro47 (Dec 22, 2021)

To goaliedave,
What is the status of the two DRI Williamsburg resorts?
Greensprings and Powhatan Vacation Resorts.

Hilton does not have any timeshare resorts in Williamsburg,  Virginia.

The Greensprings Vacation Resort was once a Gold Crown Resort and is smaller than the DRI Powhatan Vacation Resort.


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## pedro47 (Dec 22, 2021)

trippka said:


> Diamond Resorts absorbed by Hilton. What does it mean for Diamond owners? | European Consumer Claims (ECC) (mynewsdesk.com)


This article is addressing Diamond Resorts owners in Europe.


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## pedro47 (Dec 22, 2021)

pedro47 said:


> To goaliedave,
> What is the status of the two DRI Williamsburg resorts?
> Greensprings and Powhatan Vacation Resorts.
> 
> ...



Hilton could do a soft goods update  and add some elevators to bring Greensprings Vacation Resort into Hilton Grand Vacation Club. IMHO. 

A major soft goods renovation could be accomplished by using the current Resort reserves fees and by purchasing quality furniture and appliances.


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## dayooper (Dec 22, 2021)

pedro47 said:


> Hilton could do a soft goods update  and add some elevators to bring Greensprings Vacation Resort into Hilton Grand Vacation Club. IMHO.
> 
> A major soft goods renovation could be accomplished by using the current Resort reserves fees and by purchasing quality furniture and appliances.



They need to keep some nice resorts and locations for HVC. If they want to get people to buy into HVC (and a path to HGVC) they need to be able entice new members into their club.

I’m not sure how much of a draw Williamsburg would be to the average HGVC member. Not saying that it’s a bad spot, it’s not just a place I hear much about. Sedona or Tahoe would be more popular, imo.

Another Maui property and a resort on Kauai would be a boon for HGVC.


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## GT75 (Dec 22, 2021)

goaliedave said:


> 4 resorts will go to the higher end HGCV - Cabo, Orlando Mystic Dunes, Kaanapali, Poipu.


I certainly don't understand how both Kaanapali & Poipu can be pulled out of DRI - Hawaiian Collection.    I obviously don't understand trusts (nor DRI either) but I thought that those two resorts were the only HI resorts in the Hawaiian Collection.

I will be interesting to me to see the new club rules for HGVC.    They should be posted on January 1, 2022.    I don't know if there will be any changes to the rules.


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## CalGalTraveler (Dec 22, 2021)

These would be fantastic additions! Cabo is a short flight from California...will go there on long weekends once Covid is under control. (Hmmm...May need to buy more resale points next year. I was going to pull the trigger this year on more Vistana mandatory but now thinking about adding to HGVC.  )

@GT75  I believe Kaanapali and Poipu still have weeks owners in addition to Hawaiian Collection owners. I would expect the property would be accessible to both with the weeks owners going to HGVC and the points trust remaining in HVC. I hope there are still significant number of weeks owners remaining or the inventory will be slim pickings for HGVC owners. Some inventory is better than none though.

Now remaining on my list: Sedona, CA Desert, and Tahoe.


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## dioxide45 (Dec 22, 2021)

Just because there is a rebranding, it doesn't mean there will be cross booking. At least not at the moment a resort is rebranded. It could still come later.

It is doubtful that declared inventory in the different trust (clubs) will be removed. Very difficult to do that. Any cross booking will likely come from affiliations and not direct access to the inventory via a trust. Owners at rebranded resorts or within the DRI clubs may be given the opportunity to enroll their week and thus take HCVC points each year in exchange for their week or DRI points. Access to those DRI resorts would then be dependant on DRI owners offering up their week or points just like it works with the SW Florida properties.


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## GT75 (Dec 22, 2021)

dioxide45 said:


> Owners at rebranded resorts or within the DRI clubs may be given the opportunity to enroll their week and thus take HCVC points each year in exchange for their week or DRI points. Access to those DRI resorts would then be dependant on DRI owners offering up their week or points just like it works with the SW Florida properties.


Now that makes sense.


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## CalGalTraveler (Dec 22, 2021)

Similar to MVC, can't they swap deeds in the trust as long as they replace with another deed?


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## dioxide45 (Dec 22, 2021)

CalGalTraveler said:


> Similar to MVC, can't they swap deeds in the trust as long as they replace with another deed?


Perhaps. But it probably won't happen. Every time they create these trusts and add inventory, it becomes public record. Once inventory is declared, it is not an easy or cheap process to remove it. Not saying it wouldn't happen, but there is really no need to even do so. They can simply offer cross bookings via affiliation and utilize the existing exchange company that is under the HGV Club to facilitate bookings just as they do in SW Florida. No need for the additional expense of adding and removing inventory. And to date, we have NEVER seen MVC swap deeds and I doubt we ever will. So we really don't even know it would work there or what legal ramifications it would have.


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## goaliedave (Dec 22, 2021)

dayooper said:


> Where did you hear this? Not that I don’t believe you (you have been a great source of info since before the merger), I’m just curious where this is coming from. Mystic Dunes is in the Hilton Honors system as HVC, but that could be a place holder until the announcement is made.
> 
> If comes to fruition, this would be adding 13 resorts from DRI to HGVC. The 4 you mentioned plus the 9 Embarc resorts.


I'm on site in Orlando so digging around, my contacts are high up, but of course things can change. I just double checked on the HGVC golf tourney in January and they are moving it from Mystic Dunes (they've booked out the whole hotel at a brand new luxury hotel that opened today for the week).

DR and HGVC and HVC will all be 1 sales team targeting DR VIPs to upgrade to HGVC. How to deal with legacy weeks owners is always the issue in mergers but it never slows them down, I can see them "forcing" DR members into HGVC over time by reducing #resorts (not renewing agreements etc) the investor calls have been clear that they want to drive HGVC expansion (not focus on HVC). I don't think we'll see the same level of respect that Marriott has for Sheraton with Hilton- Diamond


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## dayooper (Dec 22, 2021)

Doesn’t DRI own a ton of weeks in the trust? Can they take those weeks and add them to HGVC? Wouldn’t that be like taking weeks out of HGVC and placing them in rental pools? I have heard they have a glut of weeks that are owned by corporate.


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## dioxide45 (Dec 22, 2021)

dayooper said:


> Doesn’t DRI own a ton of weeks in the trust? Can they take those weeks and add them to HGVC? Wouldn’t that be like taking weeks out of HGVC and placing them in rental pools? I have heard they have a glut of weeks that are owned by corporate.


How can weeks from the DRI trusts go into the Club? Aren't HGV owners members of the club and the weeks they own are the utility to convert to currency (points)? Those weeks in the DRI trust are owned by everyone that owns points in the DRI trusts?

I guess one could say that unsold inventory in those trusts could somehow go over to HGV, but Hilton doesn't have trusts. They sold weeks. So they would have to sell those weeks as HGV weeks or create a new trust.


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## T_R_Oglodyte (Dec 22, 2021)

dayooper said:


> Doesn’t DRI own a ton of weeks in the trust? Can they take those weeks and add them to HGVC?


Anything that is in the Trust is owned by the Trust. So DRI does not/can not own weeks in the Trust.  At most DRI would have a percentage of  undivided interest in the Trust, just like everyone else.  So no, DRI can't take weeks from the Trust and add them to HGVC.  The most that could happen is that the trust itself could swap some of its inventory for HGVC weeks, but I think that would require a change in the Trust documents, because the Trusts were set up to hold only Diamond weeks. Then there are the fiduciary obligations of the Trust manager to operate in accordance with the Trust and for the benefit of all owners of the Trust.

If this is correct, then the only inventory that DRI could provide to HGVC would be inventory that DRI owns outright.


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## LEMONLEE (Dec 22, 2021)

We own a legacy week at KBC which I do not believe is part of the trust, as we never converted to points despite Diamond's repeated sales pitches.  We can only use our week at KBC or trade into Interval International or DEX. Not sure how many other legacy owners there are, but if nothing else, they could move the legacy weeks at all those resorts over to HGVC, couldn't they?


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## GT75 (Dec 22, 2021)

LEMONLEE said:


> but if nothing else, they could move the legacy weeks at all those resorts over to HGVC, couldn't they?


Yes, I believe so.   You would have to enroll your week into HGVC.    This could be (IMO), a very good option for you (but of course, we will need to see how this plays out).   What are your current rights (Like, how/when do you book) as a legacy weeks owner?


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## LEMONLEE (Dec 22, 2021)

GT75 said:


> Yes, I believe so.   You would have to enroll your week into HGVC.    This could be (IMO), a very good option for you (but of course, we will need to see how this plays out).   What are your current rights (Like, how/when do you book) as a legacy weeks owner?


We are not able to book online through the Diamond website, but have to call or email the KBC resort directly and request to book the week we want.  Or if we want to exchange through Interval, we call/email the resort and ask them to deposit our week with Interval (they are not depositing a specific week in II, just our floating week, so I am not sure how it works behind the scenes in terms of what Interval gets.)  We also have the option to deposit into DEX but have never voluntarily done so.


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## GT75 (Dec 22, 2021)

LEMONLEE said:


> We are not able to book online through the Diamond website, but have to call or email the KBC resort directly and request to book the week we want.


Well, I would wait until we see what happens first.   If HGVC does allow you to enroll your week within HGVC (for probably a small fee), then discuss to see if it is a good option for you.   I am very familiar (along with many others) with HGVC but honestly I don't know anything about DRI.


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## T_R_Oglodyte (Dec 22, 2021)

LEMONLEE said:


> We own a legacy week at KBC which I do not believe is part of the trust, as we never converted to points despite Diamond's repeated sales pitches. We can only use our week at KBC or trade into Interval International or DEX. Not sure how many other legacy owners there are, but if nothing else, they could move the legacy weeks at all those resorts over to HGVC, couldn't they?


There is a substantial number of legacy owners (i.e., deeded week owners) at both of the old Embassy Properties, on Maui and Kauai.  This includes people such as you who never joined the Sunterra/Diamond Club, as well as people like us who added our deeded week to the Club, but did not convert the week to an interest in the Hawaii Collection. I include those as legacy owners because those individuals are still the owners of the week.

That leads to the main point - those owners still own those weeks, so no they can't move those legacy weeks to HGVC without owner permission. Just as Diamond could not unilaterally move your week in Diamond's program, neither can HGVC.


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## artringwald (Dec 22, 2021)

I own 3 deeded weeks at the Point at Poipu. If owners pay Diamond to take back their deeded weeks then they could go to HGVC. Diamond also gets back weeks by covering the MF's for any owner that doesn't pay the HOA. In return, if they foreclose on the ownership, the HOA transfers ownership to Diamond. Those foreclosed weeks could also go to HGVC. HGVC could also use Right of First Refusal (ROFR) on anyone selling deeded weeks. In any case, my deeds say that I have the right to reserve the weeks I own, and that won't change no matter which management company is hired by the HOA. As long as I've been an owner, Sunterra/Diamond had always controlled the HOA vote, and always hired themselves to manage the property. The HOA pays Diamond a substantial amount for management, but I don't know if it's more or less than other HOA's pay for property management.


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## dioxide45 (Dec 22, 2021)

But if HGV takes those weeks back, what do they do with them? Sell them as Hilton weeks that are automatically in the club? Hilton doesn't have trusts like DRI does. They would just be selling them to other owners at Hilton weeks and Hilton is then relying on those owners to either book another club resort or wait till the club period to be able to take that week for use by the club.


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## T_R_Oglodyte (Dec 22, 2021)

artringwald said:


> HGVC could also use Right of First Refusal (ROFR) on anyone selling deeded weeks.


ROFR is over at Poipu. It had a 25-year life from when sales started


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## Julieorchard2 (Dec 22, 2021)

CalGalTraveler said:


> These would be fantastic additions! Cabo is a short flight from California...will go there on long weekends once Covid is under control. (Hmmm...May need to buy more resale points next year. I was going to pull the trigger this year on more Vistana mandatory but now thinking about adding to HGVC.  )
> 
> @GT75  I believe Kaanapali and Poipu still have weeks owners in addition to Hawaiian Collection owners. I would expect the property would be accessible to both with the weeks owners going to HGVC and the points trust remaining in HVC. I hope there are still significant number of weeks owners remaining or the inventory will be slim pickings for HGVC owners. Some inventory is better than none though.
> 
> Now remaining on my list: Sedona, CA Desert, and Tahoe.


I am a weeks owner who bought from Embassy vacation resort.  I own two weeks that are deeded to me. I have never changed to points with either Sunterra or Diamond.  We only go to Ka’anapali every year and that all we do. There are quite a few of us legacy owners whose weeks will not become part of HGVC as we have nothing to do with Diamond.


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## trippka (Dec 25, 2021)

CalGalTraveler said:


> These would be fantastic additions! Cabo is a short flight from California...will go there on long weekends once Covid is under control. (Hmmm...May need to buy more resale points next year. I was going to pull the trigger this year on more Vistana mandatory but now thinking about adding to HGVC.  )
> 
> @GT75  I believe Kaanapali and Poipu still have weeks owners in addition to Hawaiian Collection owners. I would expect the property would be accessible to both with the weeks owners going to HGVC and the points trust remaining in HVC. I hope there are still significant number of weeks owners remaining or the inventory will be slim pickings for HGVC owners. Some inventory is better than none though.
> 
> Now remaining on my list: Sedona, CA Desert, and Tahoe.


.  
I was a weeks owner of a 2BR at Kaanapali. They were allowed to raise the maintenance fees 25% per year, and they did. I was paying nearly $5000/year in maintenance for 1 week. They got me to convert to points to lower my fees. They have their ways. Not sure there are a whole lot of weeks owners left, as many just walked away.


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## trippka (Dec 25, 2021)

LEMONLEE said:


> We are not able to book online through the Diamond website, but have to call or email the KBC resort directly and request to book the week we want.  Or if we want to exchange through Interval, we call/email the resort and ask them to deposit our week with Interval (they are not depositing a specific week in II, just our floating week, so I am not sure how it works behind the scenes in terms of what Interval gets.)  We also have the option to deposit into DEX but have never voluntarily done so.


I believe that the new website does allow you to book your traditional week now. You might prefer calling, but with the time difference, I liked booking my last visit online.


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## trippka (Dec 25, 2021)

As a DRI member who only goes to Poipu, Kaanapali and Cabo, I am very interested in what all this means. Only time will tell. I will be at Kaanapali soon, and Cabo in a few months. I am sure they will have a lot of stories to tell.


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## pedro47 (Dec 26, 2021)

Hilton may have a problems with their two Williamburg resorts. The majority of the owners at these two (2) resorts are in The DRI Club;. They are DRI points members and they exchanges within The Club and with II prior to 01/01/2022.

Beginning in 2022 all Diamond Club members will be exchanging with RCI or unless they pay their own membership fees to remain with II. IMHO


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