# Resale question



## mintee (Jun 18, 2018)

SO I am going in circles- I had my mind set on Vistana at a mandatory resort- Vistana Village  but I might have looped back around to Wyndham because it has so many more internal locations to choose from-
If you could- can you help with these questions- has the website for booking gotten any better?
Knowing what you know now, would you still choose to purchase with Wyndham? If not, would you seek a different company or just avoid all together? Why?

If location does not matter in order to trade since it is point based- which resort would you pick? I have seen many offers for Bonnet Creek- I also like National Harbor but I dont see it come up often (I have rented and stayed at both before)

Does Wyndham offer two bedroom lock off options where you can bank one and use the other side like Vistana does?

Lastly, can resale owners book into the Margaritaville locations or Worldmark locations? My family LOVES to travel and I know we will use it- thinking that we could either do a 1 bedroom or 2 bedroom but would love to get enough points to either take 2 smaller trips or 1 really nice trip a year

Thoughts? Just an FYI_ I have been researching since 2015 and have been a fence sitter but with my daughter doing competitive cheer  again and having to book trips to Disney area twice alone- I love the idea of having a home base for these trips and yet having other location options for the years when cheer is finally over
Thanks in advance!!


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## kaljor (Jun 19, 2018)

mintee said:


> Knowing what you know now, would you still choose to purchase with Wyndham? If not, would you seek a different company or just avoid all together? Why?
> 
> If location does not matter in order to trade since it is point based- which resort would you pick? I have seen many offers for Bonnet Creek- I also like National Harbor but I dont see it come up often (I have rented and stayed at both before)
> 
> ...



I chose Wyndham strictly because of their locations.  I rarely venture west of the Mississippi so it works for me.

Location matters if you want to use Wyndham to attend a very high demand event or season.  Commonly cited examples are New Orleans for Mardi Gras, Daytona for their bike and racing events, Newport in the summer and maybe Fort Lauderdale in the winter.  In these cases, you may need to own there to get the 3 month head start on booking that you get.  If you don't need that, then at 10 months out, points are points.

I don't think you can bank any units.  It's a points system; there is a limited opportunity to bank points for the following year or the one after that, but there's no additional flexibility for banking.

Resale owners do not have access to Margaritaville or Worldmark locations.

I'm not an expert on Wyndham, so if anything I've posted here is incorrect, I's sure someone will chime in.  But I'm a resale only owner myself, and I'm pretty sure these answers are right.


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## capital city (Jun 19, 2018)

If Margaritaville is important to you then you will have to buy a Margaritaville contract. I believe that presidential reserve contracts will also get you Margaritaville access. Both rarely come up and both sell for about $10 per thousand which is about double other good contracts.


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## bnoble (Jun 19, 2018)

For "just booking," the site seems fine. I only make a couple of reservations per year, but have had no problems.

I am happy as a small-fry resale points owner (189K), would do it again, and would consider adding more but am in the middle of a major life transition so am trying to avoid any long-term decisions until that is resolved.

I own a converted fixed week with a very good MF/K cost ratio. I would look for something about average or better than average for that (and consider Access contracts in that space). I don't care about ARP; I don't have any "must-visits" and have had good luck with anything I've wanted for the most part.

You can only deposit Wyndham with RCI*, and you do so via points, not units. You will need to do some reading here; it does not work the way you are thinking.

You can't book Margaritaville without a qualified resale (most aren't). You can't book WorldMark Club Pass resorts with resale points. You can book resorts that have dual inventory in both WorldMark and Wyndham. For example, Park City.


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## Dave Landry (Jun 19, 2018)

capital city said:


> If Margaritaville is important to you then you will have to buy a Margaritaville contract. I believe that presidential reserve contracts will also get you Margaritaville access. Both rarely come up and both sell for about $10 per thousand which is about double other good contracts.




I just read the new directory and it looks like Wyndham has removed the ability to book Margaretaville with resale PR contracts h
That are less than a million points. If I am mistaken about this can someone please correct me.


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## Richelle (Jun 19, 2018)

Resale does not have access to Margaritaville or club pass.  As far as banking, you can only push points forward next year, or the year after.  The only time Wyndham as "sides" is the fixed weeks which are fewer and fewer these days.  I am not sure if you could bank one side and keep the other.  i am not familiar with the fixed week part of Wyndham.

Bonnet Creek is nice but if you want cheap MF, and can be patient, Canterbury and Bali Hai have the lowest in the system followed by National Harbor.  Bali Hai pops up often, but I think there are some that do not have the low fees, so be careful.  Also buy between November and January.  That is a buyers market and where you will get your best deal.  i think since you've been researching for three years, patience is not an issue for you. lol

If Margaritaville is important to you, buy a margaritaville contract.  They don't pop up often, but they do at least a few times a year.  set a saved search on ebay.  If you decide to go developer for some strange reason (your money, not mine), Buy through corporate and utilize the PIC Plus program to get the best price for retail points that count towards VIP and can be used for Club Pass.  Never ever buy at the resort and never ask the sales people questions.  Their answer will be what they think you want to hear even if it isn't the truth, or they may tell you something close to the truth.  I do not recommend buying retail if VIP and Club pass are not important to you.  Resale is so much cheaper and you can get the same benefits (minus VIP, Club Pass, and Plus partners), at a fraction of the cost.

Yes, i love staying at Wyndham resorts.  Their program could be better, but i have not had issues with the resorts except the sales and marketing people who think "No" means "Yes".  I do not regret buying in, but i wish i wold have learned a little more about my buying options before i purchased.  I was familiar with how timeshares worked, but points was new to me.  I saw through most of the sales guys BS, so I do not feel I was suckered into buying.  I don't blame some people for feeling that way though.  I could have put a little more effort into learning the program in the beginning but i feel comfortable that i know how to make it work for me now.

Everyone's situation is different.  Your daughter is in cheer for now, but years down the road, your situation will be different.  what happens when she no longer is in cheer?  While she is in cheer, how much notice do you have of competitions?  If it's last minute, timesharing may not be right for you unless it's mostly low season.  Availability for prime season is difficult if you are a last minute planner.  If you do not have at least 6 months notice, I would be wary of buying into a timeshare for the purpose of lodgings during cheer competitions.  You do have the RCI option if you cannot find anything available in Wyndham, but there is a $239 fee to book a stay up to 7 nights.  if it's a one night stay, it's $239.  If it's a 7 night stay, it's also $239.  You'll have to see if the cash value of the room is $239 for your entire stay including taxes, or if you can get away with a cheaper hotel room (versus condo).  There is the RCI nightly stay option which is cheaper, but you need Plus Partners for that, which you only get with a retail purchase.  i don't think that's worth paying retail but it's your choice.

Finally, will you use your timeshare after you stop going to cheer competitions?  How many points will you need for traveling for cheer competitions and will you need the same amount of points after you stop going to cheer competitions?  I'm sorry if i gave you three more years worth of thins to consider. lol


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## mintee (Jun 20, 2018)

Thanks to all of you!! I don’t understand why I am having such a hard time making my final desicion between Vistanta and Wyndham- the only lure of Vistana is having the 2 bedroom lock off units that some are saying with their system gives you two vacations- but they have less resort choices- Wyndham gets knocked down from some -saying their resorts are not as nice- but I loved National Harbor and Bonnet Creek was the same as the Vistana resort we stayed at
While I am looking to use this Disney area in April for cheer- my husband and I would travel quarterly ourselves if we could and as soon as the kids graduate- we will be! We have done many AI and cruises and I love the idea of seeing some new locations and one day taking the kids and future grandkids with us! My only last questions- how hard has it to be able to book Clearwater, Emerald at Destin, Chicago or NY? If we really are able to use our points even with a purchase from Bonnet then this would be an amazing thing for us- as of now, the MFs are still less than the stay in those places! Also, when you have traded into RCI- have you all had any luck getting DVC or Hilton trades ever to mix it up in other locations (my kids would love to stay at the DVC hilton head or Alunai but I would not purchase DVC because I have no interest in taking ongoing Disney vacations to Orlando after they graduate in 2020)
You guys have been great! I was in mid sale with a Vistana property and just can not pull the final trigger- thinking Wyndham with all the locations and lower MF than Vistana might be a better fit for my family (Vistana MF fees for the unit I am looking at is about 1600 a year- looks like I can get 2 bedroom access with Wyndham for much less a year, right??)


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## sandkastle4966 (Jun 20, 2018)

Will answer the DVC questions....you have to deposit your Wyndham points into RCI/Weeks for DVC.  It is actually a "good deal" to use Wyn points for DVC.....BUT.....you are basically only going to find 1 bedrooms, and mostly at Saratoga Springs.  Other places occasionally pop up.   If you want DVC Hilton head or Alunai you will need to buy DVC or rent from a DVC owner.   I would not buy Wyn for the hope of a DVC exchange beyond a 1 bedroom at Disneyworld.    Get a membership to TUG and read the sightings boards and you will get an idea of what shows up.  (anything that says "weeks" is what you would see....NOT points - that is referring to RCI points, NOT wyndham points - confusing I know)


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## Richelle (Jun 20, 2018)

As far as multiple vacations, you get that with Wyndham points as well. If you don’t use up all your points on one vacation, you can potentially use the rest for another resort. So if you buy 200,000 points, and use only 100,000 on your first trip, you have another 100,000 left to use somewhere else. Think of points like currency. You can use them at any Club Wyndham resorts. So Bonnet point creek points can be used at National Harbor but the farthest out you can book it is 10 months. If you use those Bonnet Creek points at Bonnet Creek, you can book 13 months out. It’s called ARP or Advanced Reservation Priority. At your home resort you can book 13 months out. Every other Club wyndham resort you can book 10 months out.


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## taterhed (Jun 20, 2018)

You know, for somebody that's been watching for a while.......I think you're still a bit 'all over the board' with what you want.  That's not an _insult_, it's an _insight_. 

I think you need to focus on a few points:

Cost  (purchase and annual MF's)
Needs  (will 'weeks' work or do you need daily 'points' reservations?  How many weeks/days?  What season (high/low)?  tough locations or easy locations?0
Quality (2-4* or 3-5* ?)
Flexibility on travel dates, lead-time for booking (peak season, off season, 12 mos out or 90 days out?)
Where to vacation?
Exchanges... (II or RCI)
I think you might benefit from completing the "what to buy?" survey.    https://tugbbs.com/forums/index.php?threads/what-to-buy-questions-for-newbies.208742/

I know this might seem 'backwards' for somebody whose been lurking and ready to buy, but this is an important decision and inputs can't hurt, but can help!

cheers....


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## Dave Landry (Jun 20, 2018)

mintee said:


> Thanks to all of you!! I don’t understand why I am having such a hard time making my final desicion between Vistanta and Wyndham- the only lure of Vistana is having the 2 bedroom lock off units that some are saying with their system gives you two vacations- but they have less resort choices- Wyndham gets knocked down from some -saying their resorts are not as nice- but I loved National Harbor and Bonnet Creek was the same as the Vistana resort we stayed at
> While I am looking to use this Disney area in April for cheer- my husband and I would travel quarterly ourselves if we could and as soon as the kids graduate- we will be! We have done many AI and cruises and I love the idea of seeing some new locations and one day taking the kids and future grandkids with us! My only last questions- how hard has it to be able to book Clearwater, Emerald at Destin, Chicago or NY? If we really are able to use our points even with a purchase from Bonnet then this would be an amazing thing for us- as of now, the MFs are still less than the stay in those places! Also, when you have traded into RCI- have you all had any luck getting DVC or Hilton trades ever to mix it up in other locations (my kids would love to stay at the DVC hilton head or Alunai but I would not purchase DVC because I have no interest in taking ongoing Disney vacations to Orlando after they graduate in 2020)
> You guys have been great! I was in mid sale with a Vistana property and just can not pull the final trigger- thinking Wyndham with all the locations and lower MF than Vistana might be a better fit for my family (Vistana MF fees for the unit I am looking at is about 1600 a year- looks like I can get 2 bedroom access with Wyndham for much less a year, right??)




Just to add as I haven't seen it mentioned yet. Cost at Wyndham varies depending on where your ownership is. Bonnett creek maintenance fees are higher than other resorts but lower than some. pretty close to CWA points actually. If you are comfortable booking 10 months in advance instead of 13 then look for lower fee resorts like Grand Desert, Bali Hai, etc. They require more points to stay there so the cost per point is lower so when reserving a room at Bonnet Creek with those points it can save you as much as 30 to 50 dollars over owning at Bonnet Creek.


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## ronparise (Jun 20, 2018)

Dave Landry said:


> Just to add as I haven't seen it mentioned yet. Cost at Wyndham varies depending on where your ownership is. Bonnett creek maintenance fees are higher than other resorts but lower than some. pretty close to CWA points actually. If you are comfortable booking 10 months in advance instead of 13 then look for lower fee resorts like Grand Desert, Bali Hai, etc. They require more points to stay there so the cost per point is lower so when reserving a room at Bonnet Creek with those points it can save you as much as 30 to 50 dollars over owning at Bonnet Creek.




Somebody thats been reading the Wyndham forum here on Tug probably already knows that fees vary by resort and that the only reason to buy at one resort over another is ARP and if not ARP,  its the maintenance fee rate


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## bnoble (Jun 21, 2018)

mintee said:


> the only lure of Vistana is having the 2 bedroom lock off units that some are saying with their system gives you two vacations- but they have less resort choices- Wyndham gets knocked down from some -saying their resorts are not as nice- but I loved National Harbor and Bonnet Creek was the same as the Vistana resort we stayed at


The issue of a lockoff vs. not is usually most relevant for those thinking about using an external exchange system. My advice: if you are new to timesharing, _ignore external exchange._ It has a steep learning curve, and is constantly shifting. Instead, focus on getting into a system that you will use directly for a while.

I do most of my timesharing via exchange, but I've also spent a lot of time learning how. I don't think that time has paid for itself on a dollars-per-hour basis vs. other ways I could have spent that time. Instead, it is a hobby for me.


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## taterhed (Jun 21, 2018)

Hm:  Lock-off units are great for several reasons/uses:

Lock-off and turn a single unit into 'two weeks'  to occupy; concurrent, consecutive or split
Lock-off and use a partial unit; rent the other half to subsidize MF's  (only on high-end, desirable units with rent>MF obviously)
Lock-off and deposit for exchange:  use one, exchange one or both.  Two for the price of one.
Of course, it depends on the type of system you own; so do not permit/require lock-offs/rentals/etc...

External exchange: So, if what you own has what you want...and you can reliably reserve it...then great.
If you buy into a property that doesn't have what you want--or you can't reliably reserve it....then you've got problems.

As pointed out:  exchanging isn't easy and it's a path to frustration for many.  Wise to think about it and decide if you're willing to learn and willing to obsess to get what you want.


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## Steve Fatula (Jun 21, 2018)

taterhed said:


> Hm:  Lock-off units are great for several reasons/uses:
> 
> Lock-off and turn a single unit into 'two weeks'  to occupy; concurrent, consecutive or split
> Lock-off and use a partial unit; rent the other half to subsidize MF's  (only on high-end, desirable units with rent>MF obviously)
> Lock-off and deposit for exchange:  use one, exchange one or both.  Two for the price of one.



These are all great uses that Rob points out. I would add a further reason to each of those lock advantages. Some of us are just 2 people. I simply do not *need* a 2BR. For me, it makes sense to lock off and occupy the 1BR as that's all we need. That then gives me *additional* value by using the other half in any of the 3 ways noted. We only have used one, exchanging, and it has worked well for us for over 20 years. But there is some learning curve. I wouldn't say it's overly complex. Exchanging is more often seen as bad for those with oceanfront or expensive properties (or, unrealistic expectations) since it's unlikely they will ever exchange into something as good. However, for lockoffs, it's kind of hard to trade down, especially those lockoffs that are little more than a slightly fancy hotel room.


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## skotrla (Jun 21, 2018)

taterhed said:


> Hm:  Lock-off units are great for several reasons/uses:
> 
> Lock-off and turn a single unit into 'two weeks'  to occupy; concurrent, consecutive or split
> Lock-off and use a partial unit; rent the other half to subsidize MF's  (only on high-end, desirable units with rent>MF obviously)
> ...



The point was that internally with points you can do all of these things even without a lock-off (you can use half the points of a 2BR to make a 1BR reservation, leaving the other half for a rental or second reservation) - it's external exchanges that gain lock-off flexibility.

-Scott


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## Jan M. (Jun 21, 2018)

Some resorts in the Wyndham system are two bedroom lock off units. Typically a one bedroom deluxe and a one bedroom suite. If you only needed a one bedroom unit you could book a two bedroom lock off unit, stay in one side and rent out the other unit. Two bedroom lock off units are more points to book and if you weren't able to rent the other side it would be a waste of the points. However could also book a one bedroom, suite or deluxe whichever one you wanted for yourselves. This unit would be a back up plan in case the other side of the lock off didn't rent. Whichever reservation you didn't end up needing, either the two bedroom lock off or the one bedroom suite/deluxe, you would cancel before the 15 day window to cancel without losing the points. If you are a resale points owner it would cost you an extra transaction fee to have the second reservation for back up


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## Richelle (Jun 21, 2018)

Jan M. said:


> Some resorts in the Wyndham system are two bedroom lock off units. Typically a one bedroom deluxe and a one bedroom suite. If you only needed a one bedroom unit you could book a two bedroom lock off unit, stay in one side and rent out the other unit. Two bedroom lock off units are more points to book and if you weren't able to rent the other side it would be a waste of the points. However could also book a one bedroom, suite or deluxe whichever one you wanted for yourselves. This unit would be a back up plan in case the other side of the lock off didn't rent. Whichever reservation you didn't end up needing, either the two bedroom lock off or the one bedroom suite/deluxe, you would cancel before the 15 day window to cancel without losing the points. If you are a resale points owner it would cost you an extra transaction fee to have the second reservation for back up



It would cost extra transaction credit for Resale, retail non-VIP, or Silver VIP owners.  All three of those owner types only get one transaction credit per 77k points they own.  Gold and Platinum get unlimited. i know you know this, but had to clarify for any newbie reading this.


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## Lisa P (Jun 22, 2018)

For people with changing needs, like us, a large, points-based program with _resorts where you want to vacation_ is much more flexible than anything else out there.  In a single year, we may spend... a week in a 2BR in Williamsburg VA with another couple... a long weekend in a 4BR on Edisto Beach SC with our three adult kids and their spouses... _and_... a short getaway in a cozy 1BR suite (lock-off side) in Sevierville TN for just the 2 of us.  Different locations and resorts, different unit sizes, different lengths of stay.

We appreciate being able to reserve system-wide without paying an exchange fee each time.  An occasional RCI exchange (with their ever-increasing fees) can fill in the blanks for us but exchanging is not the foundation for our vacations in varied destinations.

If one anticipates returning to the same resort fairly regularly for years to come, then buying there makes sense and helps avoid disappointment and added expenses with exchange companies.  mintee, I don't see that in your posts.  If one plans to vacation in a variety of places, then choosing a system with many of those destinations, which offers internal reservations/exchanges, is the next best thing to owning at a resort where you plan to return yearly.

You've been taking your time, which is good.  If a resale Wyndham contract would provide access to most of your desired destinations, then don't get too caught up in too many details.  Look for a good deal with reasonable maintenance fees at the end of the year (lower prices) and start enjoying your vacations.  Closing/transfer takes time too.  If another system offers more of your desired locations and resorts, go with that.


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## chriskre (Jun 22, 2018)

Just gonna throw this thought out there.
I was a bit like you.  Couldn't make up my mind
between a few systems so I decided that buying
into a few of them with a biennial was the way 
to go for me.  

So I own an every other year EOY biennial contract
with Wyndham at Las Cascadas that gives me enough
points to do what I need in Wyndham, then I purchased
an EOY with Hilton and a Triennial with RCI points.
I do have a Bluegreen every year that I use for trading
with all the exchange companies and that works great
for me.    I worked my way up to owning 8 TSs over
the years.   TUG will do that to you!   LOL

This way if any of the systems change the rules, which
they do, I am not overly committed to any one developer
and my risk is minimal.   I can dump a biennial for free
if need be and not lose much.   I've already gotten my
return on investment which was minimal when I bought
them.   I bought when the economy was tanking.  
And developers don't seem to ROFR biennials.  They will
pretty much let cheap biennial contracts thru without 
taking them from you so you can get in really cheap.  

Vistana has nice resorts but for me they are pretty easy
to get with my other ownerships.  Of course if you want
to go to Atlantis and St. John then you'll probably need
to own points in their system.   I don't have much interest
in either so for me their system is too small for me to
invest in their resorts.   I live in FL so for me HGVC, Wynd
and Bluegreen work much better for me along with trading
in II and RCI with my cheaper MF/TPU ratio resorts.  

I think you need to look at the collection of resorts that are
in the system you are interested in and how easy or difficult
they are to book with and without owning.  The free wheeling
DVC exchange days are over unless you want SSR 1 bedrooms.
Bonnet Creek is just as nice if not nicer than DVC and I often
stay there with my Wyn points in the Presidential units.  I do
also own DVC and use them only for Disney trips or I rent them
out to cover my MFs.


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## Free2Roam (Jun 22, 2018)

Richelle said:


> It would cost extra transaction credit for Resale, retail non-VIP, or Silver VIP owners.  All three of those owner types only get one transaction credit per 77k points they own.  Gold and Silver get unlimited. i know you know this, but had to clarify for any newbie reading this.



Correction (also for the newbies)... Gold and PLATINUM get unlimited.  (which I know you know )


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## Richelle (Jun 22, 2018)

FreeIn2010 said:


> Correction (also for the newbies)... Gold and PLATINUM get unlimited.  (which I know you know )


Son of a...I RE-read that too!  Lol. Fixed. Thank you.


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## little1 (Jun 25, 2018)

Reading all the posts seemed to suggest that unless you can book in advance (at least 6 months ahead) and what will you do after your daughter stop cheer leading, it may not be the best option to buy another timeshare.

My suggestion: use Airbnb or VRBO. There are units that are very nice and can be booked within 6-month time frame. Possibly cheaper than the maintenance fee you pay.

Just my opinion. That's what I would do to retain the flexibility and no long-term commitment.


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## njjetskier (Nov 6, 2018)

kaljor said:


> I chose Wyndham strictly because of their locations.  I rarely venture west of the Mississippi so it works for me.
> 
> Location matters if you want to use Wyndham to attend a very high demand event or season.  Commonly cited examples are New Orleans for Mardi Gras, Daytona for their bike and racing events, Newport in the summer and maybe Fort Lauderdale in the winter.  In these cases, you may need to own there to get the 3 month head start on booking that you get.  If you don't need that, then at 10 months out, points are points.
> 
> ...



- Hi: If I buy resale St. Thomas Margaritaville points, would I not have access to change to Rio Mar Margaritaville?


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## njjetskier (Nov 6, 2018)

Dave Landry said:


> I just read the new directory and it looks like Wyndham has removed the ability to book Margaretaville with resale PR contracts h
> That are less than a million points. If I am mistaken about this can someone please correct me.



- If I buy a St. Thomas Margaritaville points would I not be able to book Rio Mar Margaritaville?


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