# What's wrong with parents today?  Entertaining baby in restaurant w/videos- sound on?



## heathpack (Dec 30, 2013)

Ok, so this is somewhat of a rhetorical question, but tell me what is wrong with parents today?!

Yesterday, Mr. H & I go out to a French bistro for dinner.  Not a fancy place but we'll be dropping $100 on dinner, so not Applebee's either.

Seated one table away from us was a couple with their pretty cute approx 18 mo old daughter.  The baby was pretty happy at first as mama and papa enjoyed their appetizers, then became a little bored as they ate their entrees.  So the parents whip out their IPhone and start playing baby videos (some sort of stupid animated cartoon in the style of South Park) WITH THE SOUND ON so the baby could hear the cartoony baby music over the low music playing to create ambience in the restaurant. 

This went on for awhile and I thought the parents just didn't realize they had the sound turned on.  I was going to say something but then their check came and they paid their bill and I figured they were leaving so why say anything?  But, no, they sat enjoying their wine, sipping away slowly.

After about 15 minutes of the baby video, I leaned over and asked if they could turn the sound off on the video.  They actually apologized and turned the sound off.  Problem solved, right?  It seemed they just didn't realize they had the sound on and we're actually considerate people.

NONONO!  It was not so.  They conferred with each other briefly in Spanish and then proceeded to turn the sound back on and play the video for another 15-20 minutes, savoring their wine to the cacophony of the baby video, the wife intermittently glaring at me, daring me to ask them to turn the sound off again.  I did not take her bait, since it was evident to me at this point that the couple was intentionally being obnoxious because I dared *attempt* to interfere with their little precious' enjoyment of the world.

Ok, so I totally know that no one can answer this: but honestly what is wrong with people?  Take a little baby to an adult restaurant (actually this mght be ok if baby not bored)?  Play IPhone with sound on for 30 minutes for anyone, adult or baby?  Use videos on a baby like a Dickensian parent would use opium?!

Sorry y'all I just sometimes wonder who that little baby will turn out to be?  What a handicap to start life with, a set of parents who can't set a halfway decent example or raise their child to believe that he/she is not the center of everything?!!

Ok, done now, back to our regularly scheduled timeshare programming...

H


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## klpca (Dec 31, 2013)

I couldn't agree with you more. That was very nervy, but sadly, I'm not really surprised. When our kids were little (not that long ago!), one of us spent quality time in the parking lot walking around with whichever kid was acting up that night. That doesn't seem to be the norm any more. Awhile ago, I was sitting in a booth (Ok...Chili's...what did I expect?) and the parents allowed their two kids to jump up and down on the seat, so much so that my seat (on the other side) was bouncing too. The parents acted oblivious to the disruption. 

Did you talk to the restaurant manager? Maybe even after you left? That's who needs to take a stand about someone playing music or games their iphone while they are seated at the table. It could get loud in there if everyone decided to play their favorite music on their phones while they dined.


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## sjsharkie (Dec 31, 2013)

Shame on the parents for that behavior.  It was inconsiderate and rude.

However, it is the restaurant's responsibility to ensure that all guests have a great dining experience IMHO.  If the behavior was as bad as you say it was, I would be upset that management could not be bothered to handle the situation.  Frankly, I'd put a review on Yelp and take my business elsewhere.

-ryan


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## vacationhopeful (Dec 31, 2013)

I would have been at the hostess station in about 2 minutes - asking to be immediately MOVED or remove the "offending idiots with the cell phone" or I would be loudly walking out. Either way, after the first five minutes, I would be posting ON THEIR FACEBOOK PAGE my opinion of their "atmosphere".

$100 for dinner - French Bistro - YOU needed to supply some French_ ATTITUDE_ ...


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## heathpack (Dec 31, 2013)

We were running late for dinner after which we had a show.  Had been stuck in traffic.  So we didn't really have the time to speak with the manager or try to get moved or to leave & go somewhere else.  As it was, we waltzed into our show 2 minutes before curtain.

Wish we had time to be a little more proactive but that dinner was not the time for it, unfortunately.

H


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## vacationhopeful (Dec 31, 2013)

heathpack said:


> We were running late for dinner after which we had a show.  Had been stuck in traffic.  So we didn't really have the time to speak with the manager or try to get moved or to leave & go somewhere else.  As it was, we waltzed into our show 2 minutes before curtain.
> 
> Wish we had time to be a little more proactive but that dinner was not the time for it, unfortunately.
> 
> H



H - yes, we live in the world of RUN - RUN - RUN. 

I would still send a very polite email and state your lack of atmosphere during your dinner (and possible explain, you had immediate plans and could not "stop" to discuss with the staff). Ask if they have a cell-phone "free" dining area as many places are adapting to the idea that fine wine & food can be totally loss due to the table next to you.


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## Phydeaux (Dec 31, 2013)

The day care generation of kids are now having their own. God help us all.


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## beejaybeeohio (Dec 31, 2013)

*Belly up to the bar, baby!*

At  crowded seafood place near Destin, we had a wait for a table.  The bar was fully occupied except for one seat. Approximately 8 of the stool sitters were kids drinking sodas and playing with their EDs.  The one empty stool had a coloring book in front of it, but I sat down anyway to enjoy a glass of wine while DH stood.  Soon after, a little girl @ 2 years old came back to reclaim her seat.  I asked nicely "Oh is this your seat?"  The kids adjacent said it was hers, so I sarcastically said as I got off the bar stool, "Alright then, belly up to the bar, sweetie!" Luckily, this tot's mom insisted I stay.

Behind the kids stood indulgent parents and even grandparents!  

BTW, I don't think daycare is the reason for today's selfishness.  I've seen that sense of entitlement demonstrated by senior citizens just as often as by today's parents and their offspring!


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## ace2000 (Dec 31, 2013)

If there was time to talk to the mother and father there was enough time to talk to the manager.  You were actually in control of the situation, even if it meant just complaining to the manager on the way out the door.


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## Passepartout (Dec 31, 2013)

About all you can do at this stage is vent- like you are doing here. Perhaps a letter to the owner of the bistro is in order so they can do some staff training. It might net you an invite back with a coupon for them to make it right.

I am a 'child magnet'. I could sit down in the 'Professional Driver's' section in a truck stop restaurant at 3 in the morning and within 5 minutes someone with an unruly 1.5-to 3 year-old will sit down at the next table. On airplanes, they save the seat behind me for a child to sit in with his/her feet on the back of my seat- doing sit-ups. At the grocery store- or worse- Costco, there is always a family with 5.2 urchins walking abreast in every aisle when I just want one or two items, then they beat me to the only check-out- and each child has to make a separate purchase with his/her own money. How adult???.

No solution for the boorish parents in your case, but for the future, don't be intimidated by their actions. Master 'THE GLARE! Do not avert your stare. If you do, they win by default.

Jim


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## Tia (Dec 31, 2013)

This would of ruined my meal no doubt, how rude of them.

Pushing the limits. When our kids were young (20 and 23 now) we never ended up in a bar with them,  but see more and more of this lately. We did take the kids out occasionally to a restaurant meant for kids. Other friends of ours have commented on kids in bars recently. This week we went to a Red Robbin and the bar area has a sign no one under 21. While waiting heard comments in the waiting area re from one group with 3 small children. One couple actually went in and sat down with their two young boys, then were relocated quietly by staff and their seats were taken by adults within seconds.


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## Elan (Dec 31, 2013)

I find it odd that other patrons and/or wait staff weren't offended by the music?


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## ace2000 (Dec 31, 2013)

Elan said:


> I find it odd that other patrons and/or wait staff weren't offended by the music?



It usually requires one customer to complain.  At the least the complaint would've helped the next group to sit at the table.


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## Bunk (Dec 31, 2013)

I don't mean to detract from your thread but while I was reading the opening post stating that the restaurant at which you were having your dinner was not Applebee's, I saw that Applebee's in Times Square in NYC is charging $375 for its New Years eve dinner tonight and only $250 for kids under 12.

Strange times we live in.


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## Elan (Dec 31, 2013)

ace2000 said:


> It usually requires one customer to complain.  At the least the complaint would've helped the next group to sit at the table.



  I guess my point is that if the music was _that_ loud, and I'm not saying it wasn't, then one would think that the wait staff would take it upon themselves to address the issue, either directly, or by informing management.  Even at Applebees...........


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## vacationhopeful (Dec 31, 2013)

Elan said:


> I...one would think that the wait staff would take it upon themselves to address the issue, either directly, or by informing management.  Even at Applebees...........



NONE of the above -- they will get a BIGGER TIP by telling the parents how WONDERFUL and CUTE their baby was --- reinforcing the parents' view that BRAT was a darling child and they are the BESTest parents to have walked into that Bistro ... NEXT time, give your server a $1 TIP per person and calmly say, "I normally TIP 20% but I was sooo veryyy disappointed by the video game atmosphere you all now have".


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## DeniseM (Dec 31, 2013)

These are the same parents that:

-let their child run all over the store, grabbing everything and throwing it on the floor.

-hand their child a new toy to play with in the cart while they shop, and then after their child has mauled it for 45 minutes, throw it on the nearest shelf before going to the check-out counter.

-let their child race down the aisle, unsupervised, pushing a child size grocery cart.

-buy their child candy at the check-out counter to shut them up.

-let their child help themselves to grapes and other small items in the produce department.

In other words - they do what ever is the easiest thing to keep their child out of their hair, that requires no effort on their part.


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## heathpack (Dec 31, 2013)

vacationhopeful said:


> NONE of the above -- they will get a BIGGER TIP by telling the parents how WONDERFUL and CUTE their baby was --- reinforcing the parents' view that BRAT was a darling child and they are the BESTest parents to have walked into that Bistro ... NEXT time, give your server a $1 TIP per person and calmly say, "I normally TIP 20% but I was sooo veryyy disappointed by the video game atmosphere you all now have".



In the baby's defense, I don't think she was a brat at all.  She was pretty cute and engaging at the beginning of the meal, smiling at people and looking around at all the lights and noises.  It was only after 30-40 min that she got a little fussy and bored.  But the inane baby videos totally captured her attention and she piped right down.

I guess to me its a crapshoot to take an 18 mo old to a restaurant.  If you do and she gets fussy, an attempt at quiet distraction makes sense, but if that doesn't work, you leave, especially if your meal is done like it was for these folks.  If anyone was being bratty, IMO it was the adults.

H


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## MuranoJo (Jan 1, 2014)

DeniseM said:


> These are the same parents that:
> 
> -let their child run all over the store, grabbing everything and throwing it on the floor.
> 
> ...



And who cares 'whatever' cost to anyone else nearby.  And Amen to all the other points you make.  

This is so irritating to me and I am beginning to be an aggressive grump about these things with the parents these days.  Who knows if one of these days a parent will go postal on me, but I'm not holding back these days.

H, I probably would have pointed it out to the wait staff after excusing myself for a bathroom run or whatever.  Chances are you were not the only couple who had their evening tainted by this.  And the wait staff could have told the couple there were 'people' complaining.


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## Rose Pink (Jan 1, 2014)

In reading this thread, it occurs to me that those parents are _still_ bothering you days later.  Let it go.  Let  them go.  Don't let them continue to irk you.  Yes, they should have been kind to their child and to their fellow patrons by leaving when the meal was done.  Only knowing what was posted here, I agree they acted rudely to you and it was calculated and deliberate.  However, it is up to you now to decide whether it is going to continue to annoy  you.  I say this because I know how difficult it can be to let things go when you were clearly the victim.  I have things that still bother me decades later.  That is no way to live.  This year I am resolving to be more forgiving for my own peace of mind.


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## ondeadlin (Jan 1, 2014)

I actually had a similar issue with a family member during Christmas.

We hosted certain family members, one of them - an adult in-law that I really like and otherwise enjoy being around - believed it was appropriate to watch videos on her laptop, with the sound on, in the midst of the rest of the family watching football.

I politely asked her to stop, and she did, only to return to doing it the next day when I wasn't in the room.

I just don't get it.


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## vacationhopeful (Jan 1, 2014)

They sound like they are all under 40-45 yo -- called the "Me Generation". 

It gets MUCH WORST with the under 30-35 year olds....


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## dwojo (Jan 1, 2014)

I would have asked the couple nicely one more time to turn off the sound. If that failed I would have complained to to management of the Bistro. The woman glaring at me to dare me to say something would have upset me enough to cause me to embarrass them somehow for being so rude and inconsiderate.


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## Rose Pink (Jan 1, 2014)

Just read a quote on a Facebook page that stated something like "be so busy living your life that you don't have time to notice people who criticize you for it."  

MmmHmmm... reminded me of this thread and I responded to the FB poster that "living your life" can be, in some instances, rude and that we should pay heed to those who do criticize us just in case we need to be more aware of how we affect others.  Somehow I doubt I will make much of an impression but I tried.


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## Tia (Jan 1, 2014)

Wondering why plugging in ear phones wasn't an option for both the baby and the movie watcher...



ondeadlin said:


> I actually had a similar issue with a family member during Christmas.
> 
> We hosted certain family members, one of them - an adult in-law that I really like and otherwise enjoy being around - believed it was appropriate to watch videos on her laptop, with the sound on, in the midst of the rest of the family watching football.
> 
> ...


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## vacationhopeful (Jan 1, 2014)

Tia said:


> Wondering why plugging in ear phones wasn't an option for both the baby and the movie watcher...



Seen the commercial with the guy working out in the gym singing to the song? Notice all the disgusted LOOKS of his fellow gym cohorts? People wearing ear phones are even louder  and living in their "own" world.


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## gnorth16 (Jan 1, 2014)

vacationhopeful said:


> They sound like they are all under 40-45 yo -- called the "Me Generation".
> 
> It gets MUCH WORST with the under 30-35 year olds....



I should be offended by this comment since I am 34, but oddly I completely agree with you!!! My sister once pulled out her phone and showed my kids a video on YouTube in a Restaurant.  I said if she every did that again I would never go out for dinner with her again and SHE would be paying for the entire bill!!!

I don't think I ever took my kids out to a restaurant when they were that young, unless we were on the road and then it would be fast food.  I know kids can't sit for 1 hour and we wouldn't enjoy ourselves anyway - iphone or not, so why bother. Take out or delivery it is!!!


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## ricoba (Jan 1, 2014)

I don't know about this scenario, but I do know that on more than one occasion I have had people comment on how well behaved my children (when they were young) were in the restaurant. 

It always made me feel proud of them.


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## Passepartout (Jan 1, 2014)

W.C. Fields was asked how he liked children. (put in your own accent) "Depends on how they're prepared."

In the OP, neither the child nor the parents were well prepared to be out in public.

Jim


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## vacationhopeful (Jan 1, 2014)

ricoba said:


> I don't know about this scenario, but I do know that on more than one occasion I have had people comment on how well behaved my children (when they were young) were in the restaurant.
> 
> It always made me feel proud of them.



You were an active parent who taught them proper behavior. 

My youngest nephew, when young, regularly went places & stayed with me and was an angel; his parents never got that type of review. The nephew's grandfather spent 30 minutes at Xmas 2013, doing the 2-finger pointing at his son & my sister, repeatedly saying "them two - never corrected him" referring to the 5'11" terror - and marveling WHAT different behavior the boy shows when I am around. I missed Xmas 2012, don't golf with the 3 generations of men, the 2013 week long Thanksgiving holiday TS stay at Wyndham, etc...grandpa was not a happy with the parents (a lot happier that day as I was keeping that holiday very quiet - by just being in the house).


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## Rose Pink (Jan 1, 2014)

heathpack said:


> Ok, so I totally know that no one can answer this: but honestly what is wrong with people?  Take a little baby to an adult restaurant (actually this mght be ok if baby not bored)?  Play IPhone with sound on for 30 minutes for anyone, adult or baby?  Use videos on a baby like a Dickensian parent would use opium?!
> 
> Sorry y'all I just sometimes wonder who that little baby will turn out to be?  What a handicap to start life with, a set of parents who can't set a halfway decent example or raise their child to believe that he/she is not the center of everything?!!
> 
> ...



Just some additional thoughts that came to me while on the elliptical today:
I went out to dinner with my son, DIL and their then 2 year old daughter.  When my granddaughter became antsy after awhile, my DIL gave her a cellphone  with educational games to play.  I was impressed to see those little thumbs work that device.  She was quiet, entertained and not a nuisance to those around her.  Much better than her screaming she didn't want to eat.  We all got the benefit of having a family meal together.  The child got adult presence (IOW she was not being ignored in any kind of Dickensian way.) She was beginning to learn what is and is not acceptable behavior in a restaurant (they need to learn these behaviors) and was given a quiet distraction when her limit had been met--which to me showed concern and preparation on her mother's part.  I remember this being a win all the way around and wished I'd had something like that when my children were young.  Then again, there was no sound emitting from the device and we were in a family-friendly restaurant. I don't think it appropriate to bring young children to upscale restaurants unless prior arrangements have been made to seat the family in an area of the restaurant away from other guests. 

By giving the child something with which to distract herself, my son and DIL were indeed teaching her that she is not the center of everything.  She was expected to entertain herself in a quiet manner if she could not interact in a pleasant way with the adults.  She was learning to sit quietly for longer periods of time.  She was not taken to upscale restaurants where meals can go on for hours.  Then again, she was not confined only to the environment at McDonald's and thinking that was normal, either.  

I think my son and DIL were very responsible parents in giving their very  young daughter an electronic device.  As to what she will grow up to be?  That's anybody's guess.  She loves animals and legos.  She ran her first mile one month after she turned four years old.  She is now five, asked for and received a bow and arrow set for Christmas.  DS says she is pretty good with it, too.  But they don't take it to restaurants. 

----------------------------

Heathpack, I think you handled the situation with both courage and compassion by addressing the couple directly rather than going through the wait staff.  It takes courage to confront a situation directly.  It takes compassion as well because by addressing the couple directly you did not embarrass them in front of the waitstaff.  

However, when your efforts did not work you are faced with what to do next.  Escalate it? Ignore it?  Your guess is better than mine since you were there and I was not.  After the couple refused to cooperate, I think I may have asked the waitstaff if they could move me to a different table in a quieter part of the establishment.  By doing so, you are not asking the waitstaff to confront the rude couple (possibly escalating the situation to even more rude behavior on their part) but rather asking your server to direct his/her efforts to making you more comfortable.  It also sends a message to them that they need to be more aware of what is going on when people come in with young children.  

Maybe there just isn't any good resolution but I wouldn't be quick to say they are bad parents because they tried to keep their child quiet by distracting her with a video.  No one wants to hear a screaming child.  I would say they are not considerate to other patrons but not that they are bad parents.


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## heathpack (Jan 1, 2014)

Rose Pink said:


> Just some additional thoughts that came to me while on the elliptical today:
> I went out to dinner with my son, DIL and their then 2 year old daughter.  When my granddaughter became antsy after awhile, my DIL gave her a cellphone  with educational games to play.  I was impressed to see those little thumbs work that device.  She was quiet, entertained and not a nuisance to those around her.  Much better than her screaming she didn't want to eat.  We all got the benefit of having a family meal together.  The child got adult presence (IOW she was not being ignored in any kind of Dickensian way.) She was beginning to learn what is and is not acceptable behavior in a restaurant (they need to learn these behaviors) and was given a quiet distraction when her limit had been met--which to me showed concern and preparation on her mother's part.  I remember this being a win all the way around and wished I'd had something like that when my children were young.  Then again, there was no sound emitting from the device and we were in a family-friendly restaurant. I don't think it appropriate to bring young children to upscale restaurants unless prior arrangements have been made to seat the family in an area of the restaurant away from other guests.
> 
> By giving the child something with which to distract herself, my son and DIL were indeed teaching her that she is not the center of everything.  She was expected to entertain herself in a quiet manner if she could not interact in a pleasant way with the adults.  She was learning to sit quietly for longer periods of time.  She was not taken to upscale restaurants where meals can go on for hours.  Then again, she was not confined only to the environment at McDonald's and thinking that was normal, either.
> ...



Zero issue with them playing a video (although my understanding is that video is not good for developing brains), ONLY with them playing it with the sound on.  Note that I did not ask them to turn video off, just the sound.  It is an entirely different thing to train a child to amuse themselves quietly than to train a child to hijack a public adult space by dominating it with noisy play or amusements.

The Dickensian comment was not so much about whether a parent ignores a child but instead whether they'd do something bad for the child for the sake of expediency.  In this case opium (the Victorian solution) is being compared to video (the modern version).  Truthfully, I have no idea whether video is actually as bad for babies' brains as pediatricians say it is.

H


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## Rose Pink (Jan 1, 2014)

heathpack said:


> Zero issue with them playing a video (although my understanding is that video is not good for developing brains), ONLY with them playing it with the sound on.  Note that I did not ask them to turn video off, just the sound.  It is an entirely different thing to train a child to amuse themselves quietly than to train a child to hijack a public adult space by dominating it with noisy play or amusements.
> 
> The Dickensian comment was not so much about whether a parent ignores a child but instead whether they'd do something bad for the child for the sake of expediency.  In this case opium (the Victorian solution) is being compared to video (the modern version).  Truthfully, I have no idea whether video is actually as bad for babies' brains as pediatricians say it is.
> 
> H


I doubt it is harmful in small doses such as in the car, in a restaurant, etc.  I agree completely with your comments about the sound intrusion just not that video, used appropriately and sparingly, is the same as opium.  We can respectfully disagree on that.


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## isisdave (Jan 1, 2014)

I have a suspicion that stimulation from video at a very young age is not great for children. Your optic nerves are about the biggest in your body, and the data rate from rapidly moving images must be incredible. It's likely that our cave-man brains are not expecting this at age 2.

I don't know if there are studies on this. I do know that the diagnosis rate of attention disorders started to increase sharply about the same time portable video devices became widespread. That doesn't prove anything, of course, but it's interesting.

How about crayons and a draw-on placemat? Those worked for about 100 years. Or an Etch-a-Sketch. We used to have some portable, small-sized building blocks too.


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## Clemson Fan (Jan 2, 2014)

While I agree with the OP's complaint of parents behaving badly, this thread has turned into sounding like a bunch of old fuddy duddies complaining about how things were so much better back in the day.

Old man voice: "Well sonny, back in my day we had to walk to school in the snow uphill both ways."

Some things were better back in day, some things not so much!


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## geekette (Jan 2, 2014)

isisdave said:


> I have a suspicion that stimulation from video at a very young age is not great for children. Your optic nerves are about the biggest in your body, and the data rate from rapidly moving images must be incredible. It's likely that our cave-man brains are not expecting this at age 2.
> 
> I don't know if there are studies on this. I do know that the diagnosis rate of attention disorders started to increase sharply about the same time portable video devices became widespread. That doesn't prove anything, of course, but it's interesting.
> 
> How about crayons and a draw-on placemat? Those worked for about 100 years. Or an Etch-a-Sketch. We used to have some portable, small-sized building blocks too.


I was thinking of crayons but wasn't sure little kids even use them anymore!!  I do have concerns about little brains, little eyes on the gadgets.  

My parents always told me that it was not their job to entertain me.  If I was bored, it was my problem and no excuse to bother others (always a terrible idea to tell parents that I was bored lest they give me an unpleasant task to whisk away that boredom).  

that was back in the 'children are seen but not heard' days, which are long gone.  If there was nothing to do, tough stuff, sit quietly anyway.


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## DeniseM (Jan 2, 2014)

geekette said:


> that was back in the 'children are seen but not heard' days, which are long gone.  If there was nothing to do, tough stuff, sit quietly anyway.



But we are talking about an 18 mo. old - an 18 mo. old is not mature enough to be expected to act like an adult, and that's why they don't belong in fine dining establishments.


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## Beaglemom3 (Jan 2, 2014)

All of these great posts make me wonder about the generation now raising the youngest generation.

I see that children _must _be entertained every moment now with video players installed in cars, electronic gadgets with them at all times. 

I can't stand it.

I like to think back on our frequent cross country trips as kids when we'd use our minds and imaginations. We'd play "license plate", "I Spy", Crazy 8s, read and discuss books, etc. We would _interact_ with each other and our surroundings.

Just musing on things here and on a time that seems so long ago.



9


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## vacationhopeful (Jan 2, 2014)

Beaglemom3 said:


> ...I like to think back on our frequent cross country trips as kids when we'd use our minds and imaginations. We'd play "license plate", "I Spy", Crazy 8s, read and discuss books, etc. We would _interact_ with each other and our surroundings.
> 
> Just musing on things here and on a time that seems so long ago.



Beagle --- your post reminded me of the time I had my nephew for his annual "week with Aunt Linda and her construction guys". Nephew must have been about 7-8 yo. AND he started this when he was 4yo. My sister had driven 6+ hours directly from a Boy Scout camp week with his older brothers, picked him up and drive another 2.5 hours home. The scouts went home with other leaders directly.

My firm house rule: NO VIDEO GAMES! Not in the house, my car, anywhere.

She puts him in to his child seat, hands him his Gameboy, he powers it up, she drives off and thinks, "2.5 hours to HOME and my real bed". At the stop sign 1/2 mile from my house, Gameboy goes OFF and a 2.5 hour ride becomes, "Mom, guess what I did with this. And I did that. Mom, we saw the cousins..........." - chatter box (her son) started up. 

She said she didn't know he could TALK so long - almost non-stop - demanding responses and answers from MOM. 

He is NEVER allowed to have video games around me .... we talk. And she wonders why he is always happy to see me?


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## Twinkstarr (Jan 2, 2014)

geekette said:


> My parents always told me that it was not their job to entertain me.  If I was bored, it was my problem and no excuse to bother others.



Hmm, sounds like my mom. We would get the "I'm not your entertainment director" speech. 

And yes kids do still use crayons, my 6th grader still has a big box of 64 that he gets out every so often to do some drawing.


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## laurac260 (Jan 2, 2014)

Clemson Fan said:


> While I agree with the OP's complaint of parents behaving badly, this thread has turned into sounding like a bunch of old fuddy duddies complaining about how things were so much better back in the day.
> 
> Old man voice: "Well sonny, back in my day we had to walk to school in the snow uphill both ways."
> 
> Some things were better back in day, some things not so much!



oh, you mean like, driving to Florida in the family truckster, the one with NO AC, kids smell to high heaven midway thru day two (yes, I was one of the kids), the "stop touching me!", "I wasn't touching you!"  "Yes you were!"  and telling your kids not to make you turn the car around????  

There's a reason someone invented DVD players for the car!!


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## vacationhopeful (Jan 2, 2014)

Us four older kids convinced both parents that all 5 of us kids were in the station wagon at the interstate rest area. 20+ minutes later, my mom ask if the 3 yo was ok in the back of the station wagon.

Guess who was NOT in the station wagon? :hysterical:


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## Rose Pink (Jan 3, 2014)

laurac260 said:


> oh, you mean like, driving to Florida in the family truckster, the one with NO AC, kids smell to high heaven midway thru day two (yes, I was one of the kids), the "stop touching me!", "I wasn't touching you!"  "Yes you were!"  and telling your kids not to make you turn the car around????
> 
> There's a reason someone invented DVD players for the car!!



My thoughts, exactly.  We used to drive at night so the children would sleep in the car and not fight.  I think watching a DVD is better than fighting.  More pleasant for everyone.  We took several trips to Disneyland when the children were growing up.  The best one was when we took our babysitter with us.  She was thrilled to have a free trip to Disneyland.  She brought a small television that plugged into the car (I had never seen such a thing before) and monitored the children while we drove.  Everyone was happy and no one was fighting.  It was a nice vacation and we all had a good time.

OTOH, when I was a kid, we sang songs while driving.  We sang "The Twelve Days of Christmas" in the middle of July.  

As for the comments about crayons, most restaurants have them but I've found they don't keep a little one quiet for long.  And the little ones don't keep the crayon solely on the paper.  Crayons go flying, tears start to flow, etc.  My DIL would color for my DGD when she was too little to do it.  That kept the little one busy while she watched her momma and until the French Fries arrived.  

I don't think putting a child in front of the television or giving them computer games (even the educational ones) for hours on end is a good idea but I do think it is a wise choice for limited use such as in a car or at a restaurant.  But the OP wasn't complaining about the device.  She was complaining about the sound being too loud and intruding into her space.  That is a valid disgruntlement, IMO.  And to rub salt into the wound, the parents returned to the noise level and dared the OP to do anything about it.  I don't care if it was a video game or loud talking or body parts hanging out over into someone else's space.  We all need to be more aware of how we intrude into other people's lives.  Which is probably why the rude couple decided to be rude.  They probably felt the OP was intruding on their enjoyment and child-rearing.  I don't agree with them but that is probably what was going on in their minds.  The end result was two parties being upset with each other and both having diminished enjoyment of an expensive meal because one party decided not to keep their noise confined to themselves.


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## loafingcactus (Jan 4, 2014)

I get this a lot on planes with shoot em up games, which I think is a particularly inappropriate sound for a public space and I always ask the flight attendant to get them to turn off the sound.  I also notice that parents in the standard 2 kiddo family that don't travel much don't think to carry a headphone jack splitter, so I have one in my briefcase that I will share with an unprepared family sitting near me.

But I had an interesting experience lately... after waiting for a plane with the nonstop shooting and screaming near me, I said the the parent, "You can do what you want, but I just wanted to let you know that I think the shooting noises in a public place are inappropriate."  She was very apologetic and dealt with it immediately- it turned out she was hard of hearing and didn't know her kid had the sound on.


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## Tia (Jan 13, 2014)

http://www.today.com/food/chef-grant-achatz-starts-twitter-debate-should-babies-be-banned-2D11918150

 Should babies be banned from high-end restaurants? A poll to vote re your opinion on the topic


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## m61376 (Jan 13, 2014)

I don't think you can (or should) make a blanket statement about taking kids to  nice restaurants. It depends upon the kids. I do think a blanket statement can be made that if the children are disruptive in any way, it is the parent's responsibility to step outside and quiet the child.

We were very lucky. I can count on the fingers of one hand the number of times one of us had to step outside for a few minutes with either daughter. My kids were taught at an early age what was and was not appropriate. At family dinners out, they weren't thrilled that their cousins were allowed to run around the table, but they knew we expected them to remain seated. We received many compliments over the years, and we never would have allowed them to be disruptive.


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## PearlCity (Jan 14, 2014)

I didn't read all the comments except for the original post but how rude of the parents. Its also bad that they entertain the child with a phone. There is a time and place for that (ie I would say its ok on a trans pacific plane ride where you can't really step outside and have exhausted all other options) but not a resturaunt. I have a friend who would do that with portable DVD players (pre iPhone era) and the kid had poor social skills as he grew.


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## laurac260 (Jan 14, 2014)

PearlCity said:


> I didn't read all the comments except for the original post but how rude of the parents. Its also bad that they entertain the child with a phone. There is a time and place for that (ie I would say its ok on a trans pacific plane ride where you can't really step outside and have exhausted all other options) but not a resturaunt. I have a friend who would do that with portable DVD players (pre iPhone era) and the kid had poor social skills as he grew.



hmmm… let's see, what would give children worse "social skills"?  Allowing them to entertain themselves with a dvd player, or raising them to be "neither seen, nor heard." 

As a previous poster mentioned, sometimes the good old days were just that.  Othertimes, notsomuch.  

Boorish behavior comes in all shapes and sizes.  How about Mr. Loud Talker?  Ms. Cell phone?  (My favorite being, Ms "cellphone in the restroom") The guy who grunts thru his workout at the gym?  Ms chewing gum cracker?  Mr/Ms I would rather snort my snot back into my head than grab a tissue and politely take care of business?  Or, hey, why not just honk it out in public.?  How about Mr. I am incapable of swallowing my saliva, therefore I must spit it on the sidewalk?  Mr/Ms the world is my ashtray?  Need I go on???


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## PearlCity (Jan 14, 2014)

I think we are on the same page. I'm a mom of three with little ones all under age 7.  We take them out. We talk to them at dinner, entertain them with whatever we can without electronics at eating establishments. And yes they have had to go to the car and wait until they settle down at times. But they learn and know how to act in public now. My youngest is still learning, but the older two are well behaved in these situations.

People asked how I can travel from Hawaii to the west coast with three kids age 4 and under back when my youngest was under a year old. We just did. My oldest cannot possibly wait until the youngest is older to see the world. Kids grow up too fast. I started timesharing so I could afford more vacations. I've done the three kids on a plane. I still do. Eating out, traveling, whatever its all the same.


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## vacationhopeful (Jan 14, 2014)

When many of us (the OVER 50 year olds) were growing up, we lived nearby relatives - grandparents, aunts & uncles, cousins. I had teachers who had taught my aunts, uncles, siblings, cousins. I could ride my bike or the neighbor's horse for miles from home. 

Today, many parents are single parents, have step-spouses and step-children, live in a place for 15 months, keep a job for even less time, and don't know a neighbor. Kids are schedule alternating weekends or left alone for long hours. Smaller households also mean fewer siblings. Elders can't provide that comfort piece of chocolate to a kid or that sage advice to their parent or a reliable babysitter. This having children later in life means the grandparents are in their 80s when the 16 yo needs those extra family eyes.

I spent 30 minutes after Christmas dinner this year listen to my sister's father-in-law (dad at age 22) offer up his wisdom on my youngest nephew - it was ugly. I could only chuckle. At 13, this nephew is too much EXCEPT when I am around. I got this boy at age 4 - he learned then "I don't play". 

Kids need that village to be raised in.


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## Helene4 (Jan 14, 2014)

Please don't blame the baby's parents. They weren't ever taught manners. Blame the baby's grandparents for neglecting to teach their children courtesy, consideration and respect for others!


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