# SVR/SVO Owner Update New Sales Presentation



## PaddyMac (Mar 14, 2015)

At SVR for our annual Disney fix and of course the owners update was ever so important this time to 'learn' about the spinoff.

With that said, honestly in the owners update there were not really any updates on the actual spinoff and its effects on owners directly. However indirectly, how they are selling new units and upgrades gives some telling signs where the company is going.

We own 2BR Float EY Lakes and 2 x 2BR Fixed EY Springs. We are 3* elite and were looking to just upgrade our Springs into the Sheraton Flex program, as these two weeks are only bookable in the SVN at 8 months out. 

Their minimum to upgrade/retro into the new system is $12k. Also, they are ONLY selling on the new system which is the 'Trust' sale system and NO deeded weeks. So to bring our 2 weeks into this system, 175k Options, Sheraton Flex we would pay $14k. 

However the real kicker is....

In the new Trust (instead of deeds) system you get a 12 month reservation priority to 5 resorts presently, SDO, SVR, SVV, SBO and Jensen Beach, yet with this comes a BLENDED maintenance fee across all five resorts. Our current 2BR Springs MFs for 2015 were approx. $850-$900, on the new blended program they would have been almost $1300 per unit.

This was a 35%ish increase in MFs just to gain the extra 4 month reservation window. Needless to say we turned down the offer, but just to let others know that this is what is coming down the pipeline. All SVN sales in the future will be trust sales only and a blending of MFs. 

As previous owners the value was not seen.


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## DavidnRobin (Mar 14, 2015)

Excellent post info-wise.
Interesting and very telling.
Thanks for the update.

More money to purchase AND an increase in MFs - such a deal!


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## dsmrp (Mar 14, 2015)

Yes very interesting...Thanks so much for posting.
In OP's case,  175K options, that's 8 cents per option to buy into new trust flex program.

It's a lower buy in cost $12K for prospective new to Starwood customers,
assuming same minimum for new and existing owners. 

PaddyMac, did Starwood Sales say anything whether trust usage & 'benefits' would be retained for resales?


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## cubigbird (Mar 14, 2015)

dsmrp said:


> Yes very interesting...Thanks so much for posting.
> In OP's case,  175K options, that's 8 cents per option to buy into new trust flex program.
> 
> It's a lower buy in cost $12K for prospective new to Starwood customers,
> ...



My guess is if you retro you'd give up any right to a deeded fixed week, which is what I have.  I have fixed week 27 - usually July 4th and I'd hate to part with that.  I know SVR is easy to book but I like not having to fight for a holiday week that includes an extra day off work.  My 2016 usage week is already reserved.  Hardly an "upgrade" at this point.


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## cubigbird (Mar 14, 2015)

PaddyMac said:


> At SVR for our annual Disney fix and of course the owners update was ever so important this time to 'learn' about the spinoff.
> 
> With that said, honestly in the owners update there were not really any updates on the actual spinoff and its effects on owners directly. However indirectly, how they are selling new units and upgrades gives some telling signs where the company is going.
> 
> ...



By this meaning "trust" are they now selling these as RTUs??


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## Sv1plat52 (Mar 14, 2015)

What will this do to the value of our fixed week ownership value.? Most of the weeks are small value or no value, but some good weeks can be sold for $$$. Will we be able to resale our grandfathered week?

Or will the grandfather week have a better value due to the lower MF, and also have a deeded fix week?


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## Sugarcubesea (Mar 14, 2015)

I wonder if  this will effect my SDO 1-52 2/2 EoO usage I have now?


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## cubigbird (Mar 14, 2015)

Sv1plat52 said:


> What will this do to the value of our fixed week ownership value.? Most of the weeks are small value or no value, but some good weeks can be sold for $$$. Will we be able to resale our grandfathered week?
> 
> Or will the grandfather week have a better value due to the lower MF, and also have a deeded fix week?



You would think this would increase the resale value.  If you have a fixed deeded week, by contract / deed you are guaranteed that week and are not having to fight for availability.  Supply and demand.  My guess is that it would be separate inventory unless you trade that week into the trust for the points instead???  I'm sure sales will want to up the pressure and hard sell on prime fixed weeks that are not in the trust system. 

A lower MF week compared to the same week at the same resort (but points instead) should command a premium???


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## PaddyMac (Mar 14, 2015)

To clarify... 

The $14k was already giving us credit for the 2 x 2BR Springs units, that was simply the buyin to the new Trust system, (RTU?).

As far as Cents/Option, the real money portion the SR said that non-owners are being quoted 42cents/option, but as a previous owner we are able to get it for 34cents/option. The real cost on 175k options is closer to $60k (at the 34cents number). We were also told that a 2BR SVR EY is going for $28,999, in which case the 'owners price' of 34cents is not a deal at all.

As well the raise in price of the MFs was a question I had to specifically ask, and was not revealed beforehand. It's a good thing I've been around the block a couple times and a Tugg member. 

Yes you would give up your deeded weeks in this new system and own a portion of the resort in 'Trust' according to how many options you owned. 

For fixed week SVR owners, the more they sell these new "Priority 5" Trust Option packages the potential for worst availability for us outside our fixed week ownership. These owners would have reservation ability at 12 months out, not the 8 we have now. Of course you can just confirm your deeded fixed weeks, hold them till 8 months, cancel and rebook I guess. 

We shall see.


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## cubigbird (Mar 14, 2015)

PaddyMac said:


> To clarify...
> 
> The $14k was already giving us credit for the 2 x 2BR Springs units, that was simply the buyin to the new Trust system, (RTU?).
> 
> ...



My fixed SVR week auto-books my reservation 18 months out and shows in MSC.  As I noted above, my week 27 2016 usage week has already posted.  I don't have to do anything to book it.  Based on what has been discussed above, I'd be a fool to trade in to the trust points system and give up my deed.  I'd rather just retro / requalify it in, if they will still allow it.  Having the SOs would be nice, which I don't have. 

However, I can see this new system being a benefit for those that currently own SVR weeks / seasons that are far from anything prime, or fixed.

Agreed  -- I guess we shall see!!


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## Sv1plat52 (Mar 14, 2015)

cubigbird said:


> You would think this would increase the resale value.  If you have a fixed deeded week, by contract / deed you are guaranteed that week and are not having to fight for availability.  Supply and demand.  My guess is that it would be separate inventory unless you trade that week into the trust for the points instead???  I'm sure sales will want to up the pressure and hard sell on prime fixed weeks that are not in the trust system.
> 
> A lower MF week compared to the same week at the same resort (but points instead) should command a premium???



With the resales they already have limitations like mandatory vs non mandatory and no use of starpoints etc. let's say that now tehy say, yes you can resale it, but the new buyer will need to buy into the trust system.


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## dsmrp (Mar 14, 2015)

PaddyMac said:


> To clarify...
> 
> The $14k was already giving us credit for the 2 x 2BR Springs units, that was simply the buyin to the new Trust system, (RTU?).
> 
> ...



Sorry, I misunderstood your numbers. Yes, the 42 cents /option is comparable to what another tugger posted a few weeks ago. 
Still outrageous numbers!

At 42 cents, the $29K 2BD annual is probably for 67.1K options, 'gold' season.
A little more than a year ago a 2BD annual unit for 76K (now 81K) options was $21K.

i don't think Starwood will let people retro their units into the current SVN system any more; would be all to the trust I guess.


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## PaddyMac (Mar 15, 2015)

Yes Sandra you are right...

If you retro/requalie a unit it goes into the new Trust system. From our discussions their entire focus going forward will to bring everyone onto the new "Trust Options" system and do away with 'deeded' weeks. 

So unless there is a drastically good deal, I don't see this happening.

Yes, BigBird my fixed weeks auto-book at 18 months as well. Which is fine if you want to travel on those exact dates every year. My concern for the future is the availability at 8 months.


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## LisaRex (Mar 15, 2015)

Sv1plat52 said:


> With the resales they already have limitations like mandatory vs non mandatory and no use of starpoints etc. let's say that now tehy say, yes you can resale it, but the new buyer will need to buy into the trust system.



Starwood can purchase units on the resale market and convert them to a trust system, but they cannot interfere with a buyer's deeded rights, whether they are a resale buyer or not.  Deeded owners at any given resort, by definition, own the right to book one week at that resort in the season purchased in the size villa purchased.  

Exchanging is another matter.  If it's written in the deed that resale owners of that resort must participate in SVN (IOW it's a mandatory resort), then resale buyers will always be allowed in SVN.  Starwood cannot touch that.  However, the program itself has always been subject to change.  Starwood can do just about anything it wants with the program, including overhauling the entire SO chart.


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## Beacon888 (Mar 15, 2015)

*Sheraton Flex & Owners Update*

Just went thru owners update. 75 minutes for $150 cash plus $100 to Planet Hollywood for dinner. Took the full 75 minutes and really high pressure sales. They wanted to convert to the Sheraton Flex system. Offered us $15700 credit towards the upgrade price of $28,000. End price would be $12,300 minus 10% plus 30,000 staroptions points. Just didn't see the value. We own SDO Gold Plus annual


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## czar (Mar 15, 2015)

PaddyMac said:


> However the real kicker is....
> 
> In the new Trust (instead of deeds) system you get a 12 month reservation priority to 5 resorts presently, SDO, SVR, SVV, SBO and Jensen Beach, yet with this comes a BLENDED maintenance fee across all five resorts. Our current 2BR Springs MFs for 2015 were approx. $850-$900, on the new blended program they would have been almost $1300 per unit.
> 
> ...



 The MF piece is concerning. I found it interesting how they structured the new WSJ CV section - much higher MF as compared to BV and then higher per point for lower point pkgs. Now they're going to blend these other points, which makes sense on paper but now leaves a group of owners represented by whom?  SVO controls these boards. While I could care less if they drive up buy-in pricing, he MF issue seems concerning. I wonder what the "new" Maui section will cost compared to the other sections...


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## cubigbird (Mar 15, 2015)

Beacon888 said:


> Just went thru owners update. 75 minutes for $150 cash plus $100 to Planet Hollywood for dinner. Took the full 75 minutes and really high pressure sales. They wanted to convert to the Sheraton Flex system. Offered us $15700 credit towards the upgrade price of $28,000. End price would be $12,300 minus 10% plus 30,000 staroptions points. Just didn't see the value. We own SDO Gold Plus annual



Now how is that any deal for a TS owner???  Even if it was the incentives are pathetic :hysterical:


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## PaddyMac (Mar 15, 2015)

LisaRex, I was not saying that they can make us change in our deeded weeks, just that their focus is to do away with them long term. 

Interesting Beacon, the $150 to SVRs $100. SVR offers discounted Disney/Universal tickets if you do the sales presentation of course, but it does look like they are sticking to the $12k upgrade minimum to get into Sheraton Flex.

I must admit this Sales presentation seemed less high pressure than the multiple other presentations that we have been involved in with SVN. 

Although another laughable 'addition' to the process is an exit interview with a floor manager/quality control (forget what they actually called this guy), to ensure that our presentation was completed professionally in the time allotted etc. We were told they overhauled the entire process and large portions of the staff of the sales side at SVR to make it less onerous for an update. 

However, the 'quality control' guy is a SPG representative and admitted several times he didnt know the sales side. But of course he was offering 65k starpoints and 145k starpoints to be used only at 3 resorts for 7 nights within the next two years for a deal of a price of $2679. So not only was it not a quality control check, but the starpoint deal wasn't that great either.


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## VacationForever (Mar 15, 2015)

PaddyMac said:


> But of course he was offering 65k starpoints and 145k starpoints to be used only at 3 resorts for 7 nights within the next two years for a deal of a price of $2679. So not only was it not a quality control check, but the starpoint deal wasn't that great either.



You lost me here.


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## Beacon888 (Mar 15, 2015)

We were offered the Explorer's package at the end as well by their Survey Reps. The offer is 8day/7night stay at SVV, Myrtle Beach and some other Beach location in Florida. Package includes 65000 Starpoints that don't expire. You have two years to book it and when you book you would have to go through another update. If you end up buying at that time you can use the $2679 as credit towards the purchase. They couldn't offer Maui so we didn't buy it.


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## VacationForever (Mar 15, 2015)

...deleted


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## YYJMSP (Mar 15, 2015)

Beacon888 said:


> We were offered the Explorer's package at the end as well by their Survey Reps. The offer is 8day/7night stay at SVV, Myrtle Beach and some other Beach location in Florida. Package includes 65000 Starpoints that don't expire. You have two years to book it and when you book you would have to go through another update. If you end up buying at that time you can use the $2679 as credit towards the purchase. They couldn't offer Maui so we didn't buy it.



All StarPoints that originate from SVO expire after 6 years.

There were some comments in another thread about how you could transfer them between accounts to "lose" the expiry date on them.


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## Beacon888 (Mar 16, 2015)

Beacon888 said:


> Just went thru owners update. 75 minutes for $150 cash plus $100 to Planet Hollywood for dinner. Took the full 75 minutes and really high pressure sales. They wanted to convert to the Sheraton Flex system. Offered us $15700 credit towards the upgrade price of $28,000. End price would be $12,300 minus 10% plus 30,000 staroptions points. Just didn't see the value. We own SDO Gold Plus annual




Curious to know if I bought another SDO resale and traded that in as well would I get the Sheraton Flex for free? Probably not but just thinking outside the box. Hahaha


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## vistana101 (Mar 19, 2015)

I also attended an owner's update this morning, so I thought I would share a little more information that I got:



The StarPoint Conversions are fixed rates in the new flex program, with the rate being .52 points per option. 


There is more flexibility as you can use part of the points given for the week in interval, part of them for starpoints, and part of them as regular options.


Interval has a points system in place as well, where you deposit your week in as a certain number of points and redeem other weeks with similar point amounts. (My understanding of what our salesman said.)


Our salesman told us not to expect a similar points system for the rest of the SVN system, as that is what higher execs told them in a presentation.


He didn't have too much information regarding the Hawaii properties, but he said they are expected to sell like they have in the past, with the same amount of StarOptions as needed now. He confirmed that it would just be one, two, and three bedrooms, with no lockoffs.


Our rep also said that Starwood bought back a ton of "reasonably priced" resales and put them into the flex program so they could sell them.


There were a few offers for us to upgrade, but the best was to pay about $90,000 to upgrade one week into the flex program and add other options/points to become four-star-elite :rofl:


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## Negma (Mar 19, 2015)

Must be upgrade week. We attended at WKV. 6500 points. When arriving we were asked if we understood that it was a :90 minute deal. 
They confirmed the 1-2-3 room arrangements everyone has discussed.

They offered us a WDW summer season 2br EOY l/o for 8k, to be used as a trader with II. Anyone have a sense to weather that trades well, I have limited experience but using the sticky on II and checking the site, it looked like a low demand time. Any thoughts on that?

We were also offered the ability to buy points at $2200 for 110,000 pts that seemed like a reasonable price if you needed points

No high pressure.


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## LisaRex (Mar 19, 2015)

Negma said:


> They offered us a WDW summer season 2br EOY l/o for 8k, to be used as a trader with II. Anyone have a sense to weather that trades well, I have limited experience but using the sticky on II and checking the site, it looked like a low demand time. Any thoughts on that?



Don't buy a desert property in the summer.  It's low demand because it's 110 degree plus.


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## JudyS (Mar 20, 2015)

PaddyMac said:


> ...
> Their minimum to upgrade/retro into the new system is $12k. Also, they are ONLY selling on the new system which is the 'Trust' sale system and NO deeded weeks. So to bring our 2 weeks into this system, 175k Options, Sheraton Flex we would pay $14k.
> 
> However the real kicker is....
> ...


Do remember how many StarOptions you would have received for your $1300 MF? Anyone else know what the MF/Staroption ratio is with this new Flex system?  Does it vary based on the number of StarOption you own? 

By the way, I also attended a presentation about this new 5-resort flex plan, which is formally called the Sheration Flex Vacation Plan. There is another thread about this program here:http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=222690

I don't think *all* SVN properties in the future will be part of a flex system with a blended MF, but all sales and retros at these five Sheratons (SVV, SVR, SVo, SBP, Jensen Beach) will be. 

On the plus side, I would expect that this new Sheration Flex plan would be mandatory in StarOptions. In other words, I would expect that it would remain in StarOptions, because thee would be no underlying week, and therefore nothing for the contract to revert back to when it was sold.


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## okwiater (Mar 20, 2015)

JudyS said:
			
		

> On the plus side, I would expect that this new Sheration Flex plan would be mandatory in StarOptions. In other words, I would expect that it would remain in StarOptions, because thee would be no underlying week, and therefore nothing for the contract to revert back to when it was sold.



Not exactly. Sheraton Flex owners are entitled to use Flex options to book at the 5 resorts which are part of the program. They are entitled to make those bookings at 12 months, and can be for short stays or long stays, just like Coral Vista. However, being able to participate in SVN is still something the developer could choose to restrict for resale purchases.


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## Ken555 (Mar 20, 2015)

okwiater said:


> Not exactly. Sheraton Flex owners are entitled to use Flex options to book at the 5 resorts which are part of the program. They are entitled to make those bookings at 12 months, and can be for short stays or long stays, just like Coral Vista. However, being able to participate in SVN is still something the developer could choose to restrict for resale purchases.




In other words, it's another layer of ownership for more confusion and fun!


Sent from my iPad


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## okwiater (Mar 20, 2015)

Ken555 said:


> In other words, it's another layer of ownership for more confusion and fun!



It's "a better way to see the world" Ken, what's so hard to understand?


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## JudyS (Mar 20, 2015)

okwiater said:


> Not exactly. Sheraton Flex owners are entitled to use Flex options to book at the 5 resorts which are part of the program. They are entitled to make those bookings at 12 months, and can be for short stays or long stays, just like Coral Vista. However, being able to participate in SVN is still something the developer could choose to restrict for resale purchases.


Good point -- Starwood could limit resale purchases to booking just the 5 resorts in the Sheraton Flex Vacation Plan. (I don't think Starwood could limit resale owners to booking at just one resort, though.) 

Hmmm... not seeing any way of making this new Flex plan work financially. A peak-season resale at a mandatory resort is going to be way better.


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## DeniseM (Mar 20, 2015)

JudyS said:


> Hmmm... not seeing any way of making this new Flex plan work financially. A peak-season resale at a mandatory resort is going to be way better.



It's MUCH better financially - for Starwood!  

When you run out of timeshares to sell, just make up a new points system and sell the same timeshares all over again!


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## dsmrp (Mar 20, 2015)

DeniseM said:


> It's MUCH better financially - for Starwood!
> 
> When you run out of timeshares to sell, just make up a new points system and sell the same timeshares all over again!



Yup, newcomers to Starwood won't have the same point of references to past sales prices, MFs etc as current owners.  And also if you make a new system complex enough, it'll take a little longer for owners to find the loopholes in the new rules 

But think of the poor reservations people, to have another group of owners to handle with a different set of rules ....


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## okwiater (Mar 20, 2015)

dsmrp said:


> But think of the poor reservations people, to have another group of owners to handle with a different set of rules ....



Hence the online reservations system... Who needs people?


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## DavidnRobin (Mar 21, 2015)

SVO Tuggers make up a very small percentage of SVO Owners.  SVO will make money (based on the adage, "Theres's a sucker born every day..." ), and lower level SVO TSs will potentially be kept out of HOAs hands and prevent delinquent MFs.
Win-Win


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## Ken555 (Mar 21, 2015)

DavidnRobin said:


> SVO Tuggers make up a very small percentage of SVO Owners.  SVO will make money (based on the adage, "Theres's a sucker born every day..." ), and lower level SVO TSs will potentially be kept out of HOAs hands and prevent delinquent MFs.
> Win-Win




+1

Let them make the money. Let them build nice resorts. We'll enjoy them, too. 


Sent from my iPad


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## JudyS (Mar 21, 2015)

DeniseM said:


> It's MUCH better financially - for Starwood!
> 
> When you run out of timeshares to sell, just make up a new points system and sell the same timeshares all over again!


Definitely! I'm sure that's exactly what Starwood has in mind. 



DavidnRobin said:


> ...lower level SVO TSs will potentially be kept out of HOAs hands and prevent delinquent MFs.
> Win-Win


Yes, the new Sheraton Flex system could even potentially benefit existing owners at the five resorts in the system, by keeping delinquency rates down.  A win for Starwood and a potential win for existing owners who don't convert to the new system -- a loss for people who buy into the new Flex system, whether as a retro or as a new purchase.


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## VacationForever (Mar 21, 2015)

Does it mean one can no longer retro a resale week from the 5 resorts by buying another deeded week from Starwood?  Has anyone asked the sales folks?


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## okwiater (Mar 21, 2015)

sptung said:


> Does it mean one can no longer retro a resale week from the 5 resorts by buying another deeded week from Starwood? Has anyone asked the sales folks?


 
If you own a deed at one of the 5 resorts you can still retro it into SVN. However, you won't be able to BUY anything from Starwood directly at any of those 5 resorts -- you'll only be offered Sheraton Flex.


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## VacationForever (Mar 21, 2015)

okwiater said:


> If you own a deed at one of the 5 resorts you can still retro it into SVN. However, you won't be able to BUY anything from Starwood directly at any of those 5 resorts -- you'll only be offered Sheraton Flex.



Thank you.


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## tschwa2 (Mar 21, 2015)

So it would cut out being able to do an upgrade/retro at one of the resorts unless you were "upgrading" to Trust points.


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## lorenmd (Mar 21, 2015)

this must be brand new because we were just at sdo in feb  and did a retro and bought an sdo and upgraded two sdo.  we are not part of the flex program.  the transactions have not even registered in my acct yet.


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## VacationForever (Mar 21, 2015)

tschwa2 said:


> So it would cut out being able to do an upgrade/retro at one of the resorts unless you were "upgrading" to Trust points.



I thought this is not what Okwiater said.  I am reading that if you say, buy a developer week at WKV, you can still retro a resale SDO/SBP/... week.


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## okwiater (Mar 21, 2015)

sptung said:


> I thought this is not what Okwiater said.  I am reading that if you say, buy a developer week at WKV, you can still retro a resale SDO/SBP/... week.



Correct. But it's probably not possible anymore to do a same-resort upgrade (i.e. using the "equity" from a resale purchase to acquire a better week) at one of those 5 resorts.


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## ValleyGirl (Mar 22, 2015)

*Points Trust*



vistana101 said:


> I also attended an owner's update this morning, so I thought I would share a little more information that I got:
> Our salesman told us not to expect a similar points system for the rest of the SVN system, as that is what higher execs told them in a presentation.
> :



We were also presented the same info at our OU at Riverfront.  Our Salesman stated that Starwood would be creating "Bubbles".  Ie a Eastern Beach Bubble, Hawaii Bubble, Mountain Bubble Etc.  
Mountain Bubble would probably include: Lakeside Terrace Mountain Vista, Riverfront, Steamboat and ???

Still wondering how inventory will be allocated as 100% of Platinum Ski Weeks have been sold and prime weeks are next to impossible for Home Resort owners to reserve now; will this put even more demand on the existing inventory? 

I also believe if you purchase a high demand resale week Starwood would requal if you brought enough money to the table (new money would be points system)


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## cubigbird (Mar 22, 2015)

ValleyGirl said:


> We were also presented the same info at our OU at Riverfront.  Our Salesman stated that Starwood would be creating "Bubbles".  Ie a Eastern Beach Bubble, Hawaii Bubble, Mountain Bubble Etc.
> Mountain Bubble would probably include: Lakeside Terrace Mountain Vista, Riverfront, Steamboat and ???
> 
> Still wondering how inventory will be allocated as 100% of Platinum Ski Weeks have been sold and prime weeks are next to impossible for Home Resort owners to reserve now; will this put even more demand on the existing inventory?
> ...




Seems as if the current SVO strategy is to churn and burn existing owners rather than expand.  :hysterical:

That's the point.  With the new system, you'll go to an Owners Update and you'll be told that what you have is inferior to the new system and that in order to book what you want and enjoy it now, you must essentially buy again.  Isn't that how this always works?  I've always believed in owning fixed weeks so I don't have to worry about that situation.


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## YYJMSP (Mar 22, 2015)

cubigbird said:


> Seems as if the current SVO strategy is to churn and burn existing owners rather than expand.  :hysterical:
> 
> That's the point.  With the new system, you'll go to an Owners Update and you'll be told that what you have is inferior to the new system and that in order to book what you want and enjoy it now, you must essentially buy again.  Isn't that how this always works?  I've always believed in owning fixed weeks so I don't have to worry about that situation.



The danger is if they replace SVN with the various Flex, bubbles, apricots, whatever they call them...

Then you're stuck booking the unit you own in the place you own in the season you own, unless you cough up more to join the apricots club.


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## cubigbird (Mar 22, 2015)

YYJMSP said:


> The danger is if they replace SVN with the various Flex, bubbles, apricots, whatever they call them...
> 
> Then you're stuck booking the unit you own in the place you own in the season you own, unless you cough up more to join the apricots club.



No doubt!!  If we are seeing the writing on the wall, you're right, and isn't that really the intention of SVO?  The well has essentually dried up so something has to happen for them to stay in business and generate high developer inflated upfront revenue, so all of a sudden we see the birth of this "Sheraton Flex" program.  If they aren't going to expand (so as they say) rapidly with new inventory, then they have to curn all the existing inventory anyways and now tell everyone that what you bought before (and even recently) is crap.  We have no control of any of this.  

Thanks to TUG we can all see beyond that and can be ready for the owners updates.

I'm sure once these "points trusts" are all full [10 years from now], I'm sure they will find yet another way to resell the same units all over again and call it something completely different and that the "trust points" is now crap.  The wheel keeps spinning.....  

BTW didn't they have one of these bubble memberships a while back ago called "Vistana's Vacation Club??"

That's why I have bought my weeks where and when/season I have wanted to go.  If SVN went away today, I'd still be happy going to my resort weeks either during my fixed week or another week in the season.  I doubt (hope) they don't abolish the bigger SVN for these small bubble memberships.  The ability to use SOs outside of your week/season based on availability to go anywhere internally within the system is one of the main reasons/added values to buy into SVO.


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## Ken555 (Mar 22, 2015)

This is all very interesting speculation, and admittedly much more relevant now that we have some facts to go with it. I suspect that if you're very flexible when you travel, as I am, then the existing system will continue to work for many years. And, combined with an occasional II trade or two, I am still comfortable keeping what I have (and I just agreed to buy another SDO week). 

I think the new system and convoluted inventory assignment in the various programs will encourage many to upgrade so that they believe they have greater assurance of booking where they want to go. However, somehow I wouldn't be surprised to find more and more reports that resorts aren't full during what we might consider to be high demand weeks since there will essentially be multiple methods to reserving a week each with its own ownership, and one method may be oversubscribed while another may not.


Sent from my iPad


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## YYJMSP (Mar 22, 2015)

cubigbird said:


> BTW didn't they have one of these bubble memberships a while back ago called "Vistana's Vacation Club??"



If I understand correctly, VVC is still alive and kicking for owner's at those properties who are not members of SVN.


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## YYJMSP (Mar 22, 2015)

Ken555 said:


> I think the new system and convoluted inventory assignment in the various programs will encourage many to upgrade so that they believe they have greater assurance of booking where they want to go. However, somehow I wouldn't be surprised to find more and more reports that resorts aren't full during what we might consider to be high demand weeks since there will essentially be multiple methods to reserving a week each with its own ownership, and one method may be oversubscribed while another may not.



My concern would be not being able to see what inventory levels are in the various booking systems.  We would have no way of knowing if "good weeks" aren't being poached by one system over another...

I'm sure right now if you convert a week for SPG points, SVO probably takes a highly desirable week in trade, so they can rent it out by the night at double what owner's charge.  And if you book in to a different property using SO's, I'm sure they select the traded out week that's to SVO's benefit, etc. And they get all unbooked inventory at 60 days, right?

All those things let them fiddle with inventory without us really knowing what's going on...


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## Ken555 (Mar 22, 2015)

YYJMSP said:


> My concern would be not being able to see what inventory levels are in the various booking systems.  We would have no way of knowing if "good weeks" aren't being poached by one system over another...
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Yes, exactly. The lack of transparency is a concern. In an ideal situation this would all be available info for us to see, but it's clearly not an issue to the majority of owners. I admit it is one of the reasons why I'm not too keen on buying lots of weeks with SVN. 


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## cubigbird (Mar 22, 2015)

YYJMSP said:


> If I understand correctly, VVC is still alive and kicking for owner's at those properties who are not members of SVN.



You are correct.  My resale SVR week can participate in VVC, although its not much of a benefit.  With my Lakes week I can book Cascades or Vistana's Beach Club.  Woohoo!!!  The biggest benefit really is that if I don't use my fixed week I can opt to float 1-51.


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## Sv1plat52 (Mar 22, 2015)

4 years in the Marriott change and there is already a class action.

http://m.bizjournals.com/orlando/mo...-club-sued-over-timeshare-program.html?r=full


On the other hand, if Starwood doesn't generate new revenues, they may just shut operations or sale.


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## SueDonJ (Mar 22, 2015)

Sv1plat52 said:


> 4 years in the Marriott change and there is already a class action.
> 
> http://m.bizjournals.com/orlando/mo...-club-sued-over-timeshare-program.html?r=full
> 
> ...



That suit was dismissed.  Here's the TUG thread about it, class action suit [Desantis v. Marriott], and the Orlando Business Journal article following the dismissal, Marriott Vacation Club lawsuit dismissed.


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## Sicnarf (Mar 22, 2015)

YYJMSP said:


> My concern would be not being able to see what inventory levels are in the various booking systems.  We would have no way of knowing if "good weeks" aren't being poached by one system over another...
> 
> I'm sure right now if you convert a week for SPG points, SVO probably takes a highly desirable week in trade, so they can rent it out by the night at double what owner's charge.  And if you book in to a different property using SO's, I'm sure they select the traded out week that's to SVO's benefit, etc. And they get all unbooked inventory at 60 days, right?
> 
> All those things let them fiddle with inventory without us really knowing what's going on...



My understanding is that only unsold weeks and weeks converted to SPs can be rented by Starwood.  Thus if an owner exchange a high or low demand week then that high or low demand week will be added to Starwood hotel inventory.  

Also, I don't think that Starwood gets all unbooked inventory at 60 days since I'm able to book units within the 60 day period.  If it is true that Starwood gets all those units then no owner should be able to book any unit 60 days before arrival.  It is possible though that Starwood is allowed to rent those units out without having to pay any fee to the HOA.

I believe the SO exhange works similar to the SPs.   Thus if an owner exchange a high or low demand week then that high or low demand week will be available for other owners to exchange to.


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## JudyS (Mar 23, 2015)

YYJMSP said:


> My concern would be not being able to see what inventory levels are in the various booking systems.  We would have no way of knowing if "good weeks" aren't being poached by one system over another...
> 
> I'm sure right now if you convert a week for SPG points, SVO probably takes a highly desirable week in trade, so they can rent it out by the night at double what owner's charge.  And if you book in to a different property using SO's, I'm sure they select the traded out week that's to SVO's benefit, etc. And they get all unbooked inventory at 60 days, right?
> 
> All those things let them fiddle with inventory without us really knowing what's going on...


Definitely a concern. This is on reason why I prefer to own fixed/floating weeks where the underlying fixed week (the week listed on the deed) is truly high demand. 

Also, if a fixed/floating week is converted to StarOptions, maybe Starwood can only take the week that is listed on the deed? That would be a lot better than if Starwood could take whatever week they wanted of that unit type and season.


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