# Bring dogs into a store and carry them in the shopping cart



## cmdmfr (Mar 4, 2015)

I had just went into a Walgreens store and long and be hold people were walking around the store with their pet poodle in the shopping cart. When I said something I was told by the old lady that they are allow to bring their dogs into the store around the pharmacy and food and that there is no law that said they are not allow to bring in the dog. I asked what happens if they mess or urinate in the cart and she said they just wipe it it won't hurt anything.  I sure will not want my food in this cart after a dog messed in it.  I have no problem with service dogs but not just pets.  Should I contact the health dept. I sure am not shopping there and putting anything in a shopping cart.


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## ronparise (Mar 4, 2015)

What make you think the dog would "mess" in the cart. Id be worried more about the old guy in line ahead of you paying for his  "Depends"...especially if he seems to be in a hurry. Not to mention all the sick people picking up their medicine at the pharmacy..  They shouldnt allow sick people in Drug Stores

Ive even seen people that put young children in those carts...wearing diapers

Face it...you are at risk every time you leave your house..my dog is the least of your worries.


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## DianeG (Mar 4, 2015)

*Both of you:*

Seriously???!!!
:hysterical:


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## am1 (Mar 4, 2015)

I am against pets entering stores, restaurants, hotels and airplanes.  Regardless of if they will mess anywhere or not.


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## silentg (Mar 4, 2015)

I was in a diner in Miami and left my table to use the restroom. On the way past a booth in the back a woman was feeding her poodle at the table off of a fork! I know people can bring their pets but usually they sit outside.


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## geekette (Mar 5, 2015)

I don't really buy food at a drug store so not clear on the problem.  What food?  The boxed stuff that sat in cases that bugs crawled around on?  That at least one person had to touch to stock the shelf?  Is there produce there that you wouldn't wash once home?

I guess I generally go in for meds, toothpaste, greeting card and never thought about there actually being carts.  I hadn't thought about grocery shopping there.

OP, if you don't like dogs in the drug store, talk to the manager.  Would you be satisfied if the store supplied a disposable cart liner?  If you don't like his policies, you can shop his competitor instead.  You can call the corporate office.   

Save the call to dept of health when you see dog poop in the aisle but make that same call when the guy in line for prescription pukes.

First of all, though, see if there is a sign outside the store that says No Pets.  If there is a posted rule, please do feel free to enforce it yourself.  Things might have been less agitating for you in the last exchange if you had been able to say "No, you are not allowed to bring pets in.  The sign outside the door says so."  Repeat as your response to whatever dog owner says.


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## mav (Mar 5, 2015)

ronparise said:


> What make you think the dog would "mess" in the cart. Id be worried more about the old guy in line ahead of you paying for his  "Depends"...especially if he seems to be in a hurry. Not to mention all the sick people picking up their medicine at the pharmacy..  They shouldnt allow sick people in Drug Stores
> 
> Ive even seen people that put young children in those carts...wearing diapers
> 
> Face it...you are at risk every time you leave your house..my dog is the least of your worries.



 :hysterical::hysterical:  I agree. I've been in Drug stores and the people that SNEEZE, mouth wide open and then do it 2 or 3 times in a row is what disgusts me.  I  just got back from Beirut on Monday morning. There was a dog on the plane on our connection from Dubai. The only reason DH and I knew it was there was because it was across the aisle from us. The dog never made a peep and it was a 15 hour flight.  Some of the customers, however were gross. Some people should really NOT be allowed to drink more then 2 drinks on a plane. Absolutely no couth, loud, obnoxious, and rude to the flight attendants.


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## zinger1457 (Mar 5, 2015)

The new trend seems to be getting the small pocket mutts classified as service dogs because of emotional support.  My friends wife got her doctor to agree to it and she takes the dog every where they go, cinemas, restaurants, etc., and carries the service dog paper work with them if anyone questions them about it.  At least it is very quiet and you would never know it was around unless you happen to see his head pop out of her hand bag.


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## SmithOp (Mar 5, 2015)

Our grocery store provide clorox wipes at the cart corral, I'm more concerned about snotty nosed kids with poopy diapers in the top tray, I never use it.


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## CO skier (Mar 5, 2015)

I saw a dog on a leash at the local grocery store last spring.  It just did not seem right.  I happened to be walking out of the store just behind the dog and owner.  There are some 4" posts right at the door to stop any vehicle from drifting into the store.  The dog stopped and lifted its leg.  Then the dog and owner just walked on toward the parking lot as if this is perfectly normal.  Everyone else who saw it just looked at each other with stunned expressions.

A store employee who was watering plants outside the store, and who saw what happened, walked over and washed the urine off the post with the water wand while shaking her head.

I am glad the dog did not decide to mark the mac and cheese boxes in aisle 5.  That is a wet clean-up that I don't want to think about.  I imagine the other stunned customers might have been thinking the same thing.


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## PStreet1 (Mar 5, 2015)

Even a dog that is perfectly house/shop trained, has a bare/unclean anal area which is placed on the bottom of the basket if the dog sits, rather than lies, in the basket.  

We are normally displeased when a person, who has presumably used toilet paper, comes out of a stall and doesn't wash his/her hands.

It seems to me the reason for the objection to the dog's being in the basket is perfectly clear.

As to those people who feel they have to take the dog everywhere they go, that's a totally different subject.


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## am1 (Mar 5, 2015)

Just because some people do very gross things does not mean we need to lower our standards completely.  

I am also against the lax policy of the airlines not asking if dogs are actually service animals that are allowed to fly up top in the plane.  

Sadly a question "service dog" wins in the situation where someone else is allergic to dogs.  That does not mean there is not damages owed if taken to court against the owner of said dog.


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## 1950bing (Mar 5, 2015)

at a place I worked there was an unwritten rule that all dogs and most people were welcome. We kept treats for the dogs. Remember, service dogs are working dogs and are not to be treated as pets.


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## Blues (Mar 5, 2015)

am1 said:


> I am against pets entering stores, restaurants, hotels and airplanes.  Regardless of if they will mess anywhere or not.



+100

-Bob


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## Patri (Mar 5, 2015)

Blues said:


> +100
> 
> -Bob



I am surprised at the venom against the OP. Traditionally animals are not welcome in stores. Do we want to change that policy? Next dept. stores where they can chew or tear clothing? And why not furniture stores so they can shed on sofas? They aren't always going to stay tucked into a bag.


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## geekette (Mar 5, 2015)

Patri said:


> I am surprised at the venom against the OP. Traditionally animals are not welcome in stores. Do we want to change that policy? Next dept. stores where they can chew or tear clothing? And why not furniture stores so they can shed on sofas? They aren't always going to stay tucked into a bag.



Dogs that chew and tear clothing??  Unlikely.  Far more unlikely than sticky-fingered kid touching everything.  That reality is already here since kids don't stay tucked in a bag.  Kids drooling on furniture or putting boogers on lamps...  really, how are kids less gross than dogs??

My dogs paws would be on the ground, not the merchandise.  Even in Petco, where do you see dogs going crazy chewing and tearing everything?  I don't see it, and certainly there is far more temptation to behave badly in a pet store than there ever would be in a dept store.


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## klpca (Mar 5, 2015)

We own two dogs - they sleep in our room. I am a dog lover. As much as I love my dogs, I don't always appreciate other dog owners. 

I saw my first restaurant dog fight about a month ago. We were seated in the outside patio area of the restaurant. It is a pet friendly restaurant, but the outside area is small and tight. A woman came in with her little dog on a leash. As she followed the hostess to be seated at a table, a dog sitting underneath another  table just lunged at the leashed dog and suddenly it was a snarling dogfight. It t was unsettling for everyone. Everyone that is with the exception of the man who owned the lunger. As far as this guy was concerned, dogs will be dogs, and his dog didn't do anything wrong. Luckily he was almost finished, so the waiter brought his check and he left quickly. No apology to the woman with the dog.

In my opinion, folks like this ruin it for everyone. They let their dogs do whatever and take no responsibility for anything that the dogs do.


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## rapmarks (Mar 5, 2015)

SmithOp said:


> Our grocery store provide clorox wipes at the cart corral, I'm more concerned about snotty nosed kids with poopy diapers in the top tray, I never use it.


oh great , now I will never put groceries there again


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## VegasBella (Mar 5, 2015)

ronparise said:


> What make you think the dog would "mess" in the cart. Id be worried more about the old guy in line ahead of you paying for his  "Depends"...especially if he seems to be in a hurry. Not to mention all the sick people picking up their medicine at the pharmacy..  They shouldnt allow sick people in Drug Stores
> 
> Ive even seen people that put young children in those carts...wearing diapers
> 
> Face it...you are at risk every time you leave your house..my dog is the least of your worries.



I Agree. 

And let me also add that* you're far more likely to catch a zoonotic disease from one of the many DEAD animals in the store than one or two live ones.*

http://www.fda.gov/downloads/Food/FoodborneIllnessContaminants/UCM187482.pdf


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## Blues (Mar 6, 2015)

Patri said:


> I am surprised at the venom against the OP. Traditionally animals are not welcome in stores. Do we want to change that policy? Next dept. stores where they can chew or tear clothing? And why not furniture stores so they can shed on sofas? They aren't always going to stay tucked into a bag.



I don't understand your comment being directed at me.  I was agreeing with the position that pets don't belong in stores, restaurants, etc; which is essentially the position of the OP, too.  That is, I'm agreeing with OP, not expressing venom.


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## Patri (Mar 6, 2015)

Blues said:


> I don't understand your comment being directed at me.  I was agreeing with the position that pets don't belong in stores, restaurants, etc; which is essentially the position of the OP, too.  That is, I'm agreeing with OP, not expressing venom.



This is where internet communication doesn't work. I was totally agreeing with  your +100. I don't like that posters are slamming senior citizens and children. The ones around here are pretty cool. Or presuming that animals are perfect and belong in retail stores. They are ignoring the issue that it is against policy in most businesses.


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## bluehende (Mar 6, 2015)

*silly*

It took exactly 1 post to equate dogs with kids.  People.....dogs are not your kids and just because you treat them exactly like your kids does not make them so.


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## Mr. Vker (Mar 6, 2015)

We were shopping for a mattress and box spring a few weeks ago-Mattress Discounters. An elderly couple had their full size lab in the store with them. By the time they had decided to purchase, the man had set the dog up with a food bowl and water dish from his car-right at the salesman's desk. This is ridiculous. 

Unless the dog is an assistance animal-and officially marked as such-it doesn't belong in stores except Petco etc.


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## tante (Mar 6, 2015)

There are no bad dogs only bad dog owners.

I own two dogs and it bothers me when other dog owners ruin it for everyone else.  Don't take your dog to where people eat or buy food, clean up after your dog on trails, and if you allow your dog to be obnoxious or aggressive then just leave them home.

The only store I would take my dogs to socialize them is home depot and lowes.


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## PStreet1 (Mar 6, 2015)

bluehende said:


> It took exactly 1 post to equate dogs with kids.  People.....dogs are not your kids and just because you treat them exactly like your kids does not make them so.


  Two thumbs up!

I'd like to add to your post that, at least in the case of the people I know, not regarding dogs as children does not mean disliking dogs; they are liked--but they are dogs, not children.  A dog owner's having chosen to disregard common sanitation rules regarding where dogs are allowed and not allowed does not change the facts:  there are laws stating that dogs are not allowed in many of the spots their owners would like to take them because the owners cannot bear being separated from the animal.  A person's personal desires do not justify deciding the laws don't apply to "Fido," or "Fluffy."


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## vacationhopeful (Mar 6, 2015)

tante said:


> There are no bad dogs only bad dog owners.
> 
> I own two dogs and it bothers me when other dog owners ruin it for everyone else.  Don't take your dog to where people eat or buy food, clean up after your dog on trails, and if you allow your dog to be obnoxious or aggressive then just leave them home.
> *
> The only store I would take my dogs to socialize them is home depot and lowes.*



I agree with you post EXCEPT for what I highlighted in BOLD. I have to be in both of those stores several times a day for work ... (Home Depot particularly where everyone KNOWS my name). It is bad enough that people might not understand these stores are NOT PLAYGROUNDS and do not watch the activity around themselves ... but a DOG to socialize it? Neither I nor the employees need to be concerned about either running over a pet or getting bit by a pet ... these stores are dangerous and have BIG machines or lumber carts that are used inside the store. Would you bring your pet with you to a doctor's office or to the IRS or police station or the shopping mall... all places I would think might also qualify as "socialization centers"?

IMHO, Dogs need to stay at home unless they truly are service animals and wear the vest identifying it as such.


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## cp73 (Mar 6, 2015)

vacationhopeful said:


> IMHO, Dogs need to stay at home unless they truly are service animals and wear the vest identifying it as such.



I agree 100%. Everytime I see a dog at Home Depot I complain to the manager. The stores employees generally dont like it either based on my discussions with them. Because dogs have accidents in the stores all the time and the employees have to clean them up.


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## tante (Mar 6, 2015)

vacationhopeful said:


> I agree with you post EXCEPT for what I highlighted in BOLD. I have to be in both of those stores several times a day for work ... (Home Depot particularly where everyone KNOWS my name). It is bad enough that people might not understand these stores are NOT PLAYGROUNDS and do not watch the activity around themselves ... but a DOG to socialize it? Neither I nor the employees need to be concerned about either running over a pet or getting bit by a pet ... these stores are dangerous and have BIG machines or lumber carts that are used inside the store. Would you bring your pet with you to a doctor's office or to the IRS or police station or the shopping mall... all places I would think might also qualify as "socialization centers"?
> 
> IMHO, Dogs need to stay at home unless they truly are service animals and wear the vest identifying it as such.



Good points. If I thought the store was dangerous to my dogs or my dogs dangerous other shoppers, I would never bring them. Like everything, your mileage may vary, but my stores are not very busy and encourage dogs (all check out areas have dog treats).


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## HatTrick (Mar 6, 2015)

No More Dogs in Grocery Stores!


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## vacationhopeful (Mar 6, 2015)

tante said:


> ... If I thought the store was dangerous to my dogs or my dogs dangerous other shoppers, I would never bring them. Like everything, your mileage may vary, but my stores are not very busy and encourage dogs (all check out areas have dog treats).



Learning is to review new information and to accept the new information into your thought processes ...

Rationalizing YOUR beliefs DOES NOT change facts --- Home Improvement stores have big machines, heavy things on shelves, lots of things with rough edges, and many people rolling big carts which do make all types of noises ... Dogs need exercise and need to be under control ... social skills should cover the basic commands: Heel, sit, down, quiet, common, stay .... not don't snap when the squeaky lumber rolls by -- it is not attacking doggie (although it might run you or your tail over).

And just because a store and its employees don't stop you or ask you to leave with Fido ... doesn't make it acceptable. 

Are you sure the doggie treats are not kiddie treats?


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## ace2000 (Mar 6, 2015)

vacationhopeful said:


> Are you sure the doggie treats are not kiddie treats?



Dog-Friendly Stores That Allow Your Pooches

http://barkpost.com/dog-friendly-stores-that-allow-your-pooches/


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## pedro47 (Mar 6, 2015)

The latest things on cruise ships; people are bringing dogs on ships and stating that they are service animals.


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## PigsDad (Mar 6, 2015)

ace2000 said:


> Dog-Friendly Stores That Allow Your Pooches
> 
> http://barkpost.com/dog-friendly-stores-that-allow-your-pooches/



From that article:



> Some restaurants that have a strict “no dogs allowed” policy, which we think is absurd…health reasons, schmealth reasons!



It is unfortunate so many dog owners don't think the public health laws apply to them...

Kurt


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## ace2000 (Mar 6, 2015)

One more link to stores that allow dogs.  Who deserves most of the blame - the stores or the dog owners?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/barkp...ere-you-can-shop-with-your-pup_b_6109922.html

1. Lowe's
2. Home Depot
3. Pottery Barn
4. Macy's5. Bass Pro Shops
6. Barnes and Noble
7. LUSH Cosmetics
8. Restoration Hardwar
9. Gap
10. Bloomingdale'
11. Urban Outfitters
12. Anthropologi
13. Free People
14. Foot Locker
15. Bebe
16. Nordstro
17. Old Navy
18. Saks Fifth Avenue
19. Tractor Supply Co.


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## Luanne (Mar 6, 2015)

PigsDad said:


> From that article:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



And it seems that everyone thinks their dog is the exception.


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## tante (Mar 6, 2015)

vacationhopeful said:


> Learning is to review new information and to accept the new information into your thought processes ...
> 
> Rationalizing YOUR beliefs DOES NOT change facts --- Home Improvement stores have big machines, heavy things on shelves, lots of things with rough edges, and many people rolling big carts which do make all types of noises ... Dogs need exercise and need to be under control ... social skills should cover the basic commands: Heel, sit, down, quiet, common, stay .... not don't snap when the squeaky lumber rolls by -- it is not attacking doggie (although it might run you or your tail over).
> 
> ...



My stores don't like kids there. Too many big machines and heavy items on shelves.  Kids need exercise and need to be under control.....


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## vacationhopeful (Mar 6, 2015)

tante said:


> My stores don't like kids there. Too many big machines and heavy items on shelves.  Kids need exercise and need to be under control.....



And my nephew at 4 yo learned that when he toppled the Home Depot shopping cart onto himself and slammed his head into the contract floor in front of the #2 Manager at that store. Manager's eyes popped, the boy jumped to his feet and clearly stated TWICE "I am not hurt. I am OKAY". Manager looked at me and I told him, "that boy KNOWS he was doing something wrong and knows he better NOT GET HURT when doing stuff like that." I watched the kid very closely for several days ... he learn NOT to do stuff I said was dangerous. 

My nephew was on construction job sites for 6 more summers ... he never got near getting hurt again. He actually was useful and listened very closely to instructions. And would ask questions when given instructions.

As for exercise, he would ask to go to bed early many nights - even though his bedtime was 8PM; he got up at 6AM and was in the truck on the road by 6:45AM after eating breakfast.

That kid got exercise and was under control. And now years later, he listens when I speak to him ... I don't raise my voice or say "or else" either.

And he is 6'3" tall and well developed - I am glad he minds me so well.


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## Beefnot (Mar 6, 2015)

ace2000 said:


> One more link to stores that allow dogs. Who deserves most of the blame - the stores or the dog owners?
> 
> http://www.huffingtonpost.com/barkp...ere-you-can-shop-with-your-pup_b_6109922.html
> 
> ...


 
The stores.  They ought to seriously call BS on bringing animals into establishments.  And the ADA needs to be revised both to minimize the ability for abuse and eliminate any perceived conflation with "therapy animals".


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## tante (Mar 6, 2015)

vacationhopeful said:


> And my nephew at 4 yo learned that when he toppled the Home Depot shopping cart onto himself and slammed his head into the contract floor in front of the #2 Manager at that store. Manager's eyes popped, the boy jumped to his feet and clearly stated TWICE "I am not hurt. I am OKAY". Manager looked at me and I told him, "that boy KNOWS he was doing something wrong and knows he better NOT GET HURT when doing stuff like that." I watched the kid very closely for several days ... he learn NOT to do stuff I said was dangerous.
> 
> My nephew was on construction job sites for 6 more summers ... he never got near getting hurt again. He actually was useful and listened very closely to instructions. And would ask questions when given instructions.
> 
> ...



Let me know when I can drop my kid off. You sound like a good influence


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## gmarine (Mar 6, 2015)

ace2000 said:


> One more link to stores that allow dogs.  Who deserves most of the blame - the stores or the dog owners?
> 
> http://www.huffingtonpost.com/barkp...ere-you-can-shop-with-your-pup_b_6109922.html
> 
> ...



This list definitely does not apply to all stores and does not apply to all dogs. Both Home Depot and Lowes near me will allow small dogs providing they are carried. They both dont allow dogs on leashes. I'm sure much depends on the store manager at many stores.


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## VegasBella (Mar 6, 2015)

PigsDad said:


> It is unfortunate so many dog owners don't think the public health laws apply to them...


Actually, you may want to look up the supposed public health laws you think dog people are violating. Most likely you just think there are laws when in fact there are simply suggestions or guidelines, not laws. Even when there are laws, many health inspectors are allowed leniency because the laws are poorly written.  Dog Friendly explains:

_"in many states, the Health Code says that 'Animals are not allowed on the premises." It does not say that "Dogs or Pets' are not allowed. Animal is clearly defined in many state codes to include 'vermin, birds, insects and rodents'. Unless a restaurant has enclosed their outdoor seating area with netting or screens, they would be in violation of this code, even if no dog was ever permitted on the premises. If the intention of such a code was to not allow animals including pets, birds, rodents and insects, then restaurants would need to shut down all non-screened outdoor seating. But this does not seem to be the intention of the code. So some cities and counties minimize the enforcement of this section of their code. "_
http://www.dogfriendly.com/server/newsletters/rest0706a.shtml

Some states even explicitly allow animals. For example, California law explicitly allows dogs in restaurants if the business owner wants it and certain criteria are met...

California Retail Food Code section  114259.5. states:
_"Live animals may be allowed in any of the following situations if the contamination of food, clean equipment, utensils, linens, and unwrapped single-use articles cannot result" ...
" Pet dogs under the control of a person in an outdoor dining area if all of the following conditions are satisfied:
 (1) The owner of the food facility elects to allow pet dogs in its outdoor dining area.
 (2) A separate outdoor entrance is present where pet dogs enter without going through the
food establishment to reach the outdoor dining area and pet dogs are not allowed on chairs,
benches, seats, or other fixtures.
 (3) The outdoor dining area is not used for food or drink preparation or the storage of
utensils. A food employee may refill a beverage glass in the outdoor dining area from a pitcher
or other container.
 (4) Food and water provided to pet dogs shall only be in single-use disposable containers.
 (5) Food employees are prohibited from having direct contact with pet dogs while on duty. A
food employee who does have that prohibited direct contact shall wash his or her hands as
required by Section 113953.3.
 (6) The outdoor dining area is maintained clean. Surfaces that have been contaminated by
dog excrement or other bodily fluids shall be cleaned and sanitized.
 (7) The pet dog is on a leash or confined in a pet carrier and is under the control of the pet
dog owner.
 (8) The food facility owner ensures compliance with local ordinances related to sidewalks,
public nuisance, and sanitation.
 (9) Other control measures approved by the enforcement agency."_

http://www.cdph.ca.gov/services/Documents/fdbRFC.pdf



vacationhopeful said:


> IMHO, Dogs need to stay at home unless they truly are service animals and wear the vest identifying it as such.



"At home"? You sound like the kind of person who gets annoyed when dog parks are built, who can't stand to see people walking their dogs on public sidewalks or playing with them at the park.


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## vacationhopeful (Mar 7, 2015)

VegasBella said:


> ....
> "At home"? You sound like the kind of person who gets annoyed when dog parks are built, who can't stand to see people walking their dogs on public sidewalks or playing with them at the park.



As I stated in my posted that you quoted - "IMHO" .... 

 .... plus I want to add: I have owned separately 2 large breed dogs for multiple years - a Doberman and a German Shorthair pointer. Both pets were well mannered and trained to live indoors or be penned outdoors. When I travelled then, the dog would be professionally boarded. I did NOT expect anyone to welcome my dog inside buildings or in their yard. Both were trained if I stopped walking on a sidewalk, to sit and not move (and always on a leash.

As for "playing with them in the park", my county has built and maintained dog parks locally ... I find that to be a great idea. Regular public parts should require leash usage - and not longer than 3 foot in length. 

As a dog owner, I would keep my dog a safe distance from people ... after all, just because I love my dog, everyone else should not be fearful of WHAT the dog MIGHT do.


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## cmdmfr (Mar 7, 2015)

*dogs in the store*

After reading many of the comments I did not think about babies and even all the  dead rodents in the stock room.  Along with that just like one comment said people sneeze and then put their hands on the bar and then you are taking the same cart with all the germs. I am totally grossed out now


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## Beaglemom3 (Mar 7, 2015)

As a Beagle, I've been reading this thread with great interest.

When we were in France, I noticed dogs in cafes and shops, but not "super-marches", although I was only in those twice.

Here is an article about the French, their dogs and how/where they fit in.

_*Dogs in the Languedoc, France - Article on dogs in French Restaurants: 

Which country has most pet dogs in relation to its population? You probably guessed Britain if you're British and the US if you're American, but the answer is France. France must be the best country in the world to be a dog. With possible exception of hunt dogs who often lead pretty grim lives, dogs here are petted and spoiled without shame. Pet dogs enjoy a freedom and acceptance that withered away a generation ago in what the French refer to as the Anglo-Saxon world. 

It is still regarded as normal and safe for dogs to run around in villages here. Many have their own medicine cabinets, kept well-stocked by their owners. They go on holiday with the family. No quarantine here. Within France you can take dogs anywhere. It is normal to see them in shops, cafés, parks, even cinemas. No one will turn a hair at the sight of a man, even a hulking scarred thug, carrying his coiffeured toy poodle into a rough city bar. I have never come across a restaurant that refused to allow dogs in. In fact dogs are generally welcomed enthusiastically, especially in the smarter restaurants. I'm convinced that there is a strong positive correlation between price and dog-friendliness - exactly the opposite of what you might expect in Britain. Before taking your order the waiter will generally ask whether your dog would like a bowl of water. 

A couple of years ago it was acceptable to take dogs into supermarkets, but signs have been appearing recently indicating that dogs are no longer allowed. The Anglo-Saxon obsession with hygiene has started to encroach. The standard sign in western countries to indicate that dogs are not welcome is a silhouette of a dog with a red diagonal bar through it. In most countries the dog is of indeterminate breed, but in France the silhouette is easily recognisable - it is a poodle, or as it is known here a caniche. 

As a treat on New Year's Day we went to the smartest restaurant in the area for lunch. Naturally we took our poodle, still a puppy. We had wondered if such a smart restaurant might be above the usual doggy conventions, especially as she was carrying her favourite toy in her mouth. But no. The restaurant conformed to the pattern. As we walked in with our puppy, there were squeaks, whines, yaps and growls from every table as we passed. Every single table in the restaurant had a pet dog under it. A bowl of water was produced as a matter of course. The waiters all took a shine to our puppy, and stopped to wrestle with her saliva-drenched toy every time they passed. She of course was delighted at the constant attention. No one in the restaurant seemed to find it at all odd that waiters should be handling such an unsanitary object. 

So take care. If you are worried by the idea of waiters handling slobber-soaked dog toys, you should avoid the very best city restaurants when you come to France. In cosmopolitan cities like Toulouse it is not at all uncommon to see lap dogs sitting on cushioned chairs at dining tables next to their owners, plates in front of them.

 I haven't seen any with wine glasses yet, but then I don't get to Paris very often. *_

Personally, I would not bring my dogs into any store except pet supply stores where they are invited. I wouldn't want an undiapered baby or undiapered dog riding in the baby seat of a shopping cart.  Yes, I know there are dog diapers, puuullleeeze. 
I always use a wipe on the shopping cart seat & area and try not to utilize it.   I like the small, two-tiered carts to be specific, the ones that do not have a baby/child seat.

I was in a supermarket in West Lebanon, N.H. once and there was a customer checking out with his Boa draped around his neck and arms. I could not get out fast enough.

 I think things have gone too far and will continue to do so.


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## VegasBella (Mar 7, 2015)

vacationhopeful said:


> As for "playing with them in the park", my county has built and maintained dog parks locally ... I find that to be a great idea. Regular public parts should require leash usage - and not longer than 3 foot in length.


I agree that dogs ought to be leashed most of the time in public places - for their own safety as well as for others. I prefer harnesses as they do not put strain on the neck and vocal chords the way collars do and they are much safer. And don't get me started on retractable leashes - I hate those things. But... 3 feet leashes are actually quite uncommon. Standard is 4 feet or 6 feet and* most laws state 6 feet.* Think about a small dog and a tall person. A leash of 3 feet would force the person to hunch over. It doesn't make sense.

One of my dogs is a herding dog who is very smart and energetic. To best funnel her many talents into something productive rather than destructive, I put her on a team with other similar dogs. We would practice our tricks at a local park. (Our dogs did disc routines, flyball, and other dog sports). We were a licensed nonprofit team with insurance and we paid to rent out a section of the park for our practices. During our practices, the dog(s) practicing would be off-leash. The resting dogs would be leashed, in crates, or in cars. 

This was* 100% legal and no one ever got hurt.* But every practice someone would complain about how they felt they were more entitled to use that field than us because they were going to play soccer or something. Of course, they never actually bothered to read the signs or rent the field, they just expected to use the field whenever they wanted. So they made it about our dogs... we were usually able to explain what was going on and teach them how to reserve park fields for games or practices but every now and then someone wouldn't even bother to talk to us and would just complain to the city. The city sided with us, we're allowed to do it, but a lot of these complaints about dogs in public places remind me of that situation.* It's not so much about what is and isn't actually safe or legal, it's about people who just don't like seeing dogs where they think they shouldn't be.*


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## VegasBella (Mar 8, 2015)

Beaglemom3 said:


> When we were in France, I noticed dogs in cafes and shops, but not "super-marches", although I was only in those twice.


Well France actually just recently elevated the legal status of dogs. 
See here: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...y-upgrades-animals-from-furniture-status.html


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## DeniseM (Mar 8, 2015)

I have no "dog in this fight,"  but I predict that it's only a matter of time until the pendulum swings the other way, because I do not believe that the majority of people want to share their personal space with other people's pets.  

I predict that we are going to see legislation that more closely monitors pets in public, especially because of the abuses with the phony service dogs.


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## am1 (Mar 8, 2015)

DeniseM said:


> I have no "dog in this fight,"  but I predict that it's only a matter of time until the pendulum swings the other way, because I do not believe that the majority of people want to share their personal space with other people's pets.
> 
> I predict that we are going to see legislation that more closely monitors pets in public, especially because of the abuses with the phony service dogs.



I hope.  How many people want to be the next to stay in a hotel room where a few dogs were last night or pay the additional cost of cleanings at a timeshare resort you own at because of pets.

Pet owners do seem to be more vocal about the issues as they are the ones fighting for the change.


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## SueDonJ (Mar 8, 2015)

am1 said:


> I hope.  How many people want to be the next to stay in a hotel room where a few dogs were last night or pay the additional cost of cleanings at a timeshare resort you own at because of pets.
> 
> Pet owners do seem to be more vocal about the issues as they are the ones fighting for the change.



Not me, and I have a dawg who's loved very much!  He's been trained, though, to behave at home alone when we go out, and Ted and my brother are very happy to spend their time together when we go away.

If we owned a home at Hilton Head I'd love to bring him there to run on the beach but our timeshare isn't our home and I'm happy that the rules allow only service dogs.  It would be nice if all of the other owners stuck to that rule - they all don't, but that still doesn't make it okay to break it.


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## linpat (Mar 8, 2015)

Several years ago I was on the campus of our local university and saw a young man walking a beautiful German Shepard on leash. I commented on the dog and was told that he really didn't like strangers . I replied that a campus with 15,000 plus students was a #%& place to walk his unfriendly dog. 
A couple of years after that, the university had to ban non-service dogas after a un-leashed terrier attacked a student and bit her several times. The terrier's owner grabbed the dog, ran to his car, and drove away.


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## tante (Mar 8, 2015)

linpat said:


> Several years ago I was on the campus of our local university and saw a young man walking a beautiful German Shepard on leash. I commented on the dog and was told that he really didn't like strangers . I replied that a campus with 15,000 plus students was a #%& place to walk his unfriendly dog.
> A couple of years after that, the university had to ban non-service dogas after a un-leashed terrier attacked a student and bit her several times. The terrier's owner grabbed the dog, ran to his car, and drove away.


The owner may have said his dog was unfriendly to avoid having a conversation with people.


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## Sea Six (Mar 9, 2015)

tante said:


> The only store I would take my dogs to socialize them is home depot and lowes.



Can't take your dog to Home Depot around here because they sell hot dogs inside.  In Florida, dogs are not allowed in a business that sells food, but can be at an outdoor table at a restaurant if management permits.  We take our dog into the Pet Supermarket store, but we put our own blanket inside the cart for her.  More for comfort than sanitation.


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## VegasBella (Mar 9, 2015)

tante said:


> The owner may have said his dog was unfriendly to avoid having a conversation with people.



Agreed. 

And if his dog was unfriendly it sounds like he was being responsible by keeping the dog on-leash and warning people not to pet the dog. It's kind of crazy that anyone could criticize someone for that. 

My dogs are friendly, but I don't take chances. When someone comes over trying to pet my dogs without asking I always say, "They aren't friendly." I say this with urgency if they come over without asking to pet my dogs first. What I'm doing is training the humans that you must ask first before petting a dog.


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## geekette (Mar 9, 2015)

am1 said:


> I hope.  How many people want to be the next to stay in a hotel room where a few dogs were last night or pay the additional cost of cleanings at a timeshare resort you own at because of pets.
> 
> Pet owners do seem to be more vocal about the issues as they are the ones fighting for the change.



I'd say most of us aren't fighting, things are changing without our help.  I have a dog, I don't go around leaning on shop owners to let her in.  I've never attempted to reverse a rule so my dog could be allowed, and I don't pretend she's a therapy dog.  

There are hotels that allow dogs.  We've stayed in several, Even Though I had to risk being given a room where Dogs May Have Been!  Luckily we all lived thru it and I'm sure the extra I paid to have a dog with me went right to extra cleaning  

I would be interested in what this additional cleaning you speak of consists of, since it removes everything heinous about dogs that somehow regular clean-up-after-people products/cleanings don't do?

Businesses are deciding on their own, it seems, that maybe there is a dog-friendly audience they should get a part of.   I didn't do anything to bring that about, so don't assume dog owners are all vocal fighters because it is not so.  

TS fees - do you think all humans are innocent of breakage, there has never been a leaky diaper or old man drool Anywhere Ever?   If so, please let me know where these Utopian Perfect People resorts are as I sure would like to avoid people that cause "extra cleaning".


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## klpca (Mar 9, 2015)

geekette said:


> I'd say most of us aren't fighting, things are changing without our help.  I have a dog, I don't go around leaning on shop owners to let her in.  I've never attempted to reverse a rule so my dog could be allowed, and I don't pretend she's a therapy dog.
> 
> There are hotels that allow dogs.  We've stayed in several, Even Though I had to risk being given a room where Dogs May Have Been!  Luckily we all lived thru it and I'm sure the extra I paid to have a dog with me went right to extra cleaning
> 
> ...



I can only speak in general terms that may relate to the cost of extra cleaning. I know that I have posted this before. We own a condo in an urban area. Our first tenants had a dog - that came with references. The couple worked within walking distance of the condo and would be home at lunch to walk the dog. We felt good about renting to this couple. Unfortunately there was a big gap between their perception of their dog's behavior and the reality of the situation.

Their dog whined all day. We had multiple complaints to deal with. Their dog wasn't potty trained as well as they thought. The carpet had to be replaced after we let them out of their lease early. (It was professionally cleaned first but the smell was still noticeable). When their dog peed outside it went down the drain onto the balcony below our unit. The owners complained (duh - who wouldn't?) and our tenants had the audacity to deny that it was their dog even when shown proof. (What is it with people who can't accept responsibility?)

Costs we incurred: New carpet $1,800, cleaning carpet prior $200. Lost rent while we waited to recarpet the unit $1000. Less the pet deposit that we kept ($500) and the extra pet rent collected ($450). We were out over $2,000. 

At any rate, I believe that not all dogs are bad and that a lot are potty trained. But some are not and some will have honest to goodness accidents. Wear and tear on pet units will be higher than those without because things like carpet are expensive to replace. Maybe pet units should have hard flooring that could withstand accidents better than carpeting?


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## VegasBella (Mar 9, 2015)

klpca said:


> Maybe pet units should have hard flooring that could withstand accidents better than carpeting?



I don't usually travel with my dogs but my experience is that many units that allow dogs also have tile, laminate, or concrete flooring, not carpet.


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## klpca (Mar 9, 2015)

VegasBella said:


> I don't usually travel with my dogs but my experience is that many units that allow dogs also have tile, laminate, or concrete flooring, not carpet.



That's good to know.


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## Deb from NC (Mar 9, 2015)

I don't own a dog, but I like them and actually enjoy seeing them when I'm out and about.  We ate (outside on the patio) at a restaurant on Hilton Head last time we went and the couple at the table next to us had 2 BIG Newfoundlands with them. The dogs were quiet and well behaved and I enjoyed talking to the owners about them.  The owners appeared to be  'regulars' so I don't know if they were therapy dogs or if they
were just known and welcomed.

I also saw quite a few dogs on site at our recent stay at Grande Lodge on Peak 7.  I didn't see any bad behavior and enjoyed seeing them as well.  Having said that, I am an animal lover and think I'm less likely to catch a nasty virus from a dog (or cat) than I am a human !!


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## ace2000 (Mar 9, 2015)

I don't mind if my dog gets to stay at our timeshare unit, but hopefully nobody else gets to bring theirs.


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## Wonka (Mar 9, 2015)

*It's a dog's world*

My dog loves to visit Lowes and the employees all greet her by name.  Customers seem to like seeing our dog in Lowes as well.  The disadvantage is I get stopped so much asking her breed and folks wanting pet her.

We live in Florida and most restaurants welcome them at outside seating.  In fact, some of the upscale restaurants have added a menu for dogs.  We make sure our dog has taken care of business before we take her anywhere, and she seems to understand the requirement.  Yes, she does join us for casual restaurant outings and visits to the Tiki hut beach bars.  Again, most customers want to visit her.  I just wish I heard "what a cutie pie" addressed to me repeatedly.

But, I do understand others concern.  Dogs barking & growling at other passing dogs belong at home.  Some dogs just don't like being around other dogs.  I also agree that the dogs wearing vests as therapy dogs for emotional support seem to be growing and the requirements probably need to be better enforced.  

If the establishment and laws allow dogs and a customer disapproves, there are many more restaurants that don't allow animals.


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## ace2000 (Mar 9, 2015)

And then there's this story...

One day two men were walking their Rotwiler and Chihuahua in the park when they spot a cafe that doesn't allow pets. 

The man says "Watch this" and puts on black glasses and walks gingerly into the Cafe. The waitor said "No dogs allowed". The man replies "This is my seeing eye dog." The waitor asks "A Rotwiler?" The man nods and walks to the table. 

The other man goes to the cafe and slowly walks in the entrance and again the waitor says "No dogs allowed". The man again replies "This is my seeing eye dog." The waitor replies "A chihuahua?"  Then the man yells "A CHIHUAHUA? THEY GAVE ME A CHIHUAHUA?"


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## Wonka (Mar 10, 2015)

*Service Dog vs Therapy Dog*

After reading this string, I decided to learn more about the qualifications for a Service Dog vs Therapy dog and the situations where they may be used.  A service dog is trained to help with a disability.  A Therapy dog simply helps by their presence.  Neither require certification of training and there is no formal registration.  So, kits can be purchased online for the vests but it doesn't mean anything.  

Service dogs are required to be permitted on airlines, in retail shops, hotels, etc.  Therapy dogs are permitted on airlines and housing cannot be denied if a Therapy dog is an issued.  This does not include hotels, retail shops, etc.

So, if you see a Therapy dog on the beach, or in any other pet prohibited area they shouldn't be there.  The problem is first the lack of a qualified registration proving specific training and the need (doctor's certificate), etc. and second the lack of an understanding of the laws pertain to service vs therapy dogs.


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## PStreet1 (Mar 10, 2015)

Nice clarification; thanks.  (I suppose, though, that it means that 4 pound FiFi's owner will simply purchase a Service Dog vest kit instead of a Therapy Dog vest kit.)


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## VegasBella (Mar 10, 2015)

Wonka said:


> Service dogs are required to be permitted on airlines, in retail shops, hotels, etc.  Therapy dogs are permitted on airlines and housing cannot be denied if a Therapy dog is an issued.  This does not include hotels, retail shops, etc.



Actually, these laws are constantly being tested these days. (That's why these things get in the news - eg "pig denied on airplane"). It's a gray area.

In some instances ADA laws apply and others it's Fair Housing. Plus there are state laws. So you really need to consult an expert in the field to know whether a dog is allowed or not. An expert would be someone who deals in disability and animal law.

We've discussed this at length in other threads and the common theme is that these laws - and the local interpretation of them - are in flux.


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## PStreet1 (Mar 10, 2015)

http://www.dogbreedinfo.com/articles/humandog.htm
http://content.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1888304,00.html
http://www.peopleiwanttopunchinthethroat.com/2011/05/people-who-treat-their-dogs-like.html
http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2014/10/20/pets-allowed


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## Rsauer3473 (Mar 11, 2015)

I guess before the laws get any tighter I better get a restful plane trip planned for me and Cuddles, my emotional support Burmese Spitting Cobra.


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## JM48 (Mar 11, 2015)

I hope you don't get seated beside my "emotional support" friend
Mandy the Mongoose!

JM


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## MuranoJo (Mar 12, 2015)

JM48 said:


> I hope you don't get seated beside my "emotional support" friend
> Mandy the Mongoose!
> 
> JM



That's good, very good.


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## Jestjoan (Mar 12, 2015)

*ADA Service Animals*

https://adata.org/publication/service-animals-booklet


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## PStreet1 (Mar 12, 2015)

Jestjoan said:


> https://adata.org/publication/service-animals-booklet


  Very clear--thanks.


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## Passepartout (Mar 12, 2015)

I can respect that not everybody loves my best buddy, who goes everywhere with me, except to indoor places where food is served. 

Their loss.

Jim


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## ouaifer (Mar 19, 2015)

_Dogs are accepted here._


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## Tia (Mar 19, 2015)

Local summer farmers market downtown used to allow but now bans dogs being brought.........


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## Passepartout (Mar 19, 2015)

Tia said:


> Local summer farmers market downtown used to allow but now bans dogs being brought.........



Time was our neighborhood farmer's market banned pooches, now they are allowed on short (6') leashes. It goes both ways.


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## BevL (Mar 19, 2015)

VegasBella said:


> Agreed.
> 
> And if his dog was unfriendly it sounds like he was being responsible by keeping the dog on-leash and warning people not to pet the dog. It's kind of crazy that anyone could criticize someone for that.
> 
> My dogs are friendly, but I don't take chances. When someone comes over trying to pet my dogs without asking I always say, "They aren't friendly." I say this with urgency if they come over without asking to pet my dogs first. What I'm doing is training the humans that you must ask first before petting a dog.



I agree.  My dog is a small Shih Tzu/Lhasa cross, 14 years old, and has never been particularly friendly since we adopted him.  But he is NEVER out of our home without a leash and totally ignores other animals.  I respond the way you do, but it's very irritating when  other people bring their mutts up close without asking.   Or stick their hand in his face without asking.  Then there's the lecture when he gives a warning snap about the need to "socialize" him and/or muzzle him.  

To keep my post on track, I've never felt the need to bring my dog with me like I would one of my children.  They're members of the family but not needing to be with me 24/7.  Maybe it's my farm upbringing that makes me think of animals differently than some who really do treat them like a child.


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## icydog (Mar 23, 2015)

I don't bring my Bichon Frisée into stores or restaurants but I wish I could. I can't even bring her to an outdoor, read outside the restaurant, restaurant.  In Europe it is accepted but not here in the USA. My doggie loves people and other dogs. In fact she loves practically everybody.  She's very well trained and would sit under the table if told to. I wish I could sit with her on a sunny day and enjoy a sandwich.


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