# 13 month advantage fails



## MOXJO7282 (Jun 18, 2009)

I couldn't secure a NCV July week even using the 13 month rule when I called the other day. Very disappointing as we were trying to go for my son's b-day.

What is even more upsetting is the rep tols me there is no July weeks left from the 50% allocation of the 13 month rule because other owners have already strung multiple weeks together and used up the entire allocation.

This means that it is fruitless to try and call next week to secure a late 2010 July week using the 13 month rule because there are no more 13 months July weks left at the NCV.

I screwed up because I could have called June 28th with my MOW July 4th week and added NCV consectively from there.


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## ciscogizmo1 (Jun 18, 2009)

You can still call at 12 months.  I wouldn't give up hope just yet.


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## jme (Jun 18, 2009)

call every day....stuff happens.  every once in a while, a week or two will appear for various reasons....... just trust me....jme


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## SueDonJ (Jun 18, 2009)

I haven't yet been able to take advantage of the 13-month rule when trying to book my first choice consecutive Gold/Platinum weeks (straddling Memorial Day weekend) because (one) there are only 5 of those specific Gold units I own that are available before the 12-month mark, and (two) other multi-week owners string together consecutive weeks before I'm able that eat up those units.  It's frustrating, isn't it?

This year I tried something different and booked the Gold/Platinum combination that was available at the 13-month mark and then tried for my other Gold at the 12-month mark by using the online reservation system instead of the phone.  Don't know why I didn't trust it before, but finally I listened to all the folks who said it was quicker than the phone and Voila! - success!  Give it a try right at the 9EST opening and good luck. 

Of course now we're sitting on reservations for two units for the same Gold week and one for the consecutive Platinum week for next year.  Could be we'll have lots of company for that first week, or we'll cancel and re-book one week, or an exchange to somewhere new and exotic is in our future.  Who knows?!


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## dougp26364 (Jun 18, 2009)

ciscogizmo1 said:


> You can still call at 12 months.  I wouldn't give up hope just yet.



I think what she was saying was, there were enough owners with Multiple weeks that they were able to string them together, in advance of the 13 month rule, to take up 100% of the weeks in July. For me that would be hard to believe but, NCV seems to have issues wtih availability during the summer months.

The sad thing is some of these units will be taken strictly for exchange with owners wanting the "highest" trade power whether they need it or not. It may be possible for the OP to reserve her NCV week, then put in an ongoing exchange back into the resort and get the week they want. This is the one thing I don't care for with Marriott's reservation system vs the points system of Hilton Grand Vacation Club. Owners can take the most prized weeks to exchange rather than use, leaving owners who would actually want to use those weeks out in the cold.


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## dioxide45 (Jun 18, 2009)

dougp26364 said:


> I think what she was saying was, there were enough owners with Multiple weeks that they were able to string them together, in advance of the 13 month rule, to take up 100% of the weeks in July. For me that would be hard to believe but, NCV seems to have issues wtih availability during the summer months.
> .



I don't think this is the case. The OP did indicate that all of the 50% allocatoin was used up for July, not that all July weeks were gone.


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## leylandpark (Jun 18, 2009)

I was able to to secure July 11th 2010 at NCV using my 13-month and had no problems. Now you do have to call the first thing in the morning to make your reservation. Don't delay.


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## dougp26364 (Jun 18, 2009)

dioxide45 said:


> I don't think this is the case. The OP did indicate that all of the 50% allocatoin was used up for July, not that all July weeks were gone.




You may be right. I get it wrong a fair amount of the time.


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## MOXJO7282 (Jun 18, 2009)

leylandpark said:


> I was able to to secure July 11th 2010 at NCV using my 13-month and had no problems. Now you do have to call the first thing in the morning to make your reservation. Don't delay.




Called at the stroke of 9am EST


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## m61376 (Jun 18, 2009)

Joe- Hope you already tried again this morning and had some luck today. 
Things do open up and, of course, 50% are still open for single week owners.


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## thinze3 (Jun 18, 2009)

m61376 said:


> Joe- Hope you already tried again this morning and had some luck today.
> Things do open up ...



... and the reason often is because people book certain weeks as a backup and then change their reservations later as their most desired weeks come available. Call weekly just after the phones open for the new weeks and then call again about 30 minutes later.

Also, at the 12 month time period, start calling at about 7:58 and keep hitting redial until the lines open (when the recording is no longer there). Of course you will have your laptop going and keep hitting refresh as well.


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## ciscogizmo1 (Jun 18, 2009)

What is even CRAZIER!!! is that someone bought multiple weeks of timeshares just to stay the week or July 4th or rent it out.  Just seems silly to me to do that just for one week.


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## m61376 (Jun 18, 2009)

ciscogizmo1 said:


> What is even CRAZIER!!! is that someone bought multiple weeks of timeshares just to stay the week or July 4th or rent it out.  Just seems silly to me to do that just for one week.



Isn't the 4th a Holiday week (Plat. Plus) at NCV?


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## ciscogizmo1 (Jun 18, 2009)

m61376 said:


> Isn't the 4th a Holiday week (Plat. Plus) at NCV?



You are right.  I don't know what I was thinking I assumed this poster was trying to reserve a 4th of July week.  But it looks like he was just reserving a week in July.  My mistake but still I don't get the logic of owning multiple weeks when you just want one particular week in July.  To me it would be a waste of my vacation dollars but that's me.


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## ldanna (Jun 18, 2009)

m61376 said:


> Isn't the 4th a Holiday week (Plat. Plus) at NCV?



Week 26 at Newport Coast is a fixed week (Platinum Plus). You don't need to reserve it, it's alreadly reserved for you.

Platinum season runs from week 23 throght 51, except week 26.


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## taffy19 (Jun 18, 2009)

dioxide45 said:


> I don't think this is the case. The OP did indicate that *all of the 50% allocatoin* was used up for July, not that all July weeks were gone.


OK, now I have a question again. When 50% of the inventory is released to single week owners and the other half to multiple week owners but there are more multiple week owners now, does that mean that they are having a harder time today getting the desired weeks as more owners are competing for the most desirable weeks in the multiple week owner group?

This was my argument all along when we owned a single floating week because at that time there were many more single week owners than multiple week owners like there may be now and it was practically impossible for us to make our reservations after the 13 months perk was introduced. It seems to me now that the scale has tipped again in favor of the one week owners or do I see this wrong again?  

I am no longer affected so it is no longer my concern but it is a problem for many floating week owners either in the first or second group depending which one is the biggest group now, I believe.  

I am well aware too that the NCVs have too many platinum weeks and that doesn't help the problem either.

It is also true that weeks may become available later in the day or even weeks later because of cancellations. Good luck to Joe!


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## leylandpark (Jun 18, 2009)

As a multi-week owner, I always take advantage of the 13-month reservation and book in July and August. You get better trading power during the summer months.


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## leylandpark (Jun 18, 2009)

I forgot to add the most common mistakes are (1) not knowing the day to call for making the 13 month reservations and (2) not calling exactly at 9am on the day.


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## jme (Jun 18, 2009)

*Here's The Way It Works*

There seems to be some confusion, or at least I perceive that because of the way some comments were worded.   But here's the scoop:

Those calling to book a week 13 months out (multiple week owners only) can only receive 50% of the inventory for that week, period. That means that the other 50% of those weeks remain for ANYONE to book the following month (single week owners, MORE multiple week owners who were denied, i.e.,ANY OWNER wishing to book). You just have to book it fast enough to be one of the lucky ones to get the first 50% of the weeks. 

Now, since only 50% of those weeks can be given out at that time of 13 months out, it means that the other 50% are NOT BOOKED, still available, but can only be booked as early as the 12-month-out day, or AFTER. Simple as that.  

They don't hold inventory for "single-week owners", per se. They have 50% of the weeks left, so at the 12-month-out day, the other 50% become available for booking by anyone who calls, including single-week owners, multiple weeks owners, any owner.  

It's frustrating, sure, but some weeks are simply more desirable than others, and seem to be in higher demand for whatever reason......last two gold weeks prior to summer are typically the most highly sought-after, because of kids getting out of school, and families are therefore already available for travel.  Two weeks earlier , the kids are still in school, and the demand isn't there, even tho the weeks are still gold weeks.  jme


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## SueDonJ (Jun 18, 2009)

jme said:


> There seems to be some confusion, or at least I perceive that because of the way some comments were worded.   But here's the scoop:
> 
> Those calling to book a week 13 months out (multiple week owners only) can only receive 50% of the inventory for that week, period. That means that the other 50% of those weeks remain for ANYONE to book the following month (single week owners, MORE multiple week owners who were denied, i.e.,ANY OWNER wishing to book). You just have to book it fast enough to be one of the lucky ones to get the first 50% of the weeks.
> 
> ...



To add to this, here's something that I've posted previously in another discussion:

>>_Technically_, it's only correct that 50% of the inventory is held back for the 12-month mark (as opposed to it being technically correct that 50% is available at the 13-month mark.) It is theoretically possible for the advance-release inventory to be reserved at any point prior to the 13-month mark. Consider the owners who reserve consecutively -- multi weeks reserved consecutively will result in all of those units being taken out of the pool on the first day that reservation can be made, which is 13-months in advance of the first check-in day. For example, the six consecutive weeks from 2/1/10 - 3/14/10 could theoretically be booked on 1/1/09 by a single owner.<<

I'm not sure how or if this helps the question of which group of owners - single or multi-week, holds the advantage for booking based on how many of each type of owner exists.  I agree with *jme*, though, that the true advantage lies with whoever is fast enough to book whatever inventory is available as soon as it becomes available.


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## jme (Jun 18, 2009)

SueDonJ said:


> To add to this, here's something that I've posted previously in another discussion:
> 
> >>_Technically_, it's only correct that 50% of the inventory is held back for the 12-month mark (as opposed to it being technically correct that 50% is available at the 13-month mark.) It is theoretically possible for the advance-release inventory to be reserved at any point prior to the 13-month mark. Consider the owners who reserve consecutively -- multi weeks reserved consecutively will result in all of those units being taken out of the pool on the first day that reservation can be made, which is 13-months in advance of the first check-in day. For example, the six consecutive weeks from 2/1/10 - 3/14/10 could theoretically be booked on 1/1/09 by a single owner.<<
> 
> I'm not sure how or if this helps the question of which group of owners - single or multi-week, holds the advantage for booking based on how many of each type of owner exists.  I agree with *jme*, though, that the true advantage lies with whoever is fast enough to book whatever inventory is available as soon as it becomes available.




You make a good point that some weeks can, and often are (actually always are), taken out of the pool at an early point. I just didn't get that technical about it, because it's the overall concept of NOT allowing total booking of weeks at the 13-mo date that I was alluding to. Your point is entirely correct.  

I didn't mean that there are always exactly 50% and 50% of weeks available at 13 and 12-month dates, but only that there are a LARGE portion of weeks booked at the 13-mo day, and an "approximately equivalent" LARGE portion of weeks held back until the 12-mo day, so that it becomes a more FAIR process. 

I didn't mean a mathematical half and half, but it was figurative, symbolic, or whatever we want to call it. I think we both agree that for fairness' sake, Marriott holds a large portion back, that's all.  

News Flash: *****There are also a very few minimal weeks held onto by a special resort executive for certain purposes,  which are not given out at either prior date, so that those special weeks can be utilized at a later date should something unusual arise.  

For instance, if the Queen of England wished to visit my home resort on a certain date, the resort "special executive" would have a certain number of weeks which would be immediately available.  By the time the weeks roll around, they are placed back into the pool for use if the need never arose. That's why I say always keep checking back and back and back.....you never know when a week will show up.....of course they are snapped up as soon as they hit the available pool, but nevertheless, they were there. jme


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## davidvel (Jun 19, 2009)

I always love these 12/13 month threads.

Can anyone point me to anything in writing that says 50% of weeks are reserved for single week owners?

Also, is there anything in writing that says that if you own _any_ two Marriott weeks (as opposed to 2+ weeks in _the same resort_) that you have a deeded right to reserve at 13 months out? 

Just curious.


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## SueDonJ (Jun 19, 2009)

davidvel said:


> I always love these 12/13 month threads.
> 
> Can anyone point me to anything in writing that says 50% of weeks are reserved for single week owners?



Not me.



davidvel said:


> Also, is there anything in writing that says that if you own _any_ two Marriott weeks (as opposed to 2+ weeks in _the same resort_) that you have a deeded right to reserve at 13 months out?
> 
> Just curious.



In the Owner Reference Guide that we were given on the day we bought, it says this:

"If you are a multiple-week Owner who wants to reserve concurrent or consecutive weeks to occupy, you may make reservations beginning 13 months prior to the first check-in day of your desired week."

Nothing in there or in any of the ownership documents that specifies the consecutive/concurrent weeks need to be at the same resort, and I've never seen a post from anyone here which stated that they were unable to use two different resorts.

BUT there is that pesky "to occupy" which is never enforced, as far as I know, and in fact is completely ignored by the sales reps and Vacation Ownership Advisors.  Think about it, though - how is it even possible for an owner "to occupy" two or more concurrent weeks?


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## SueDonJ (Jun 19, 2009)

jme said:


> ... For instance, if the Queen of England wished to visit my home resort ...



I agree with everything in your post but this particular line made me laugh.  We invite company to travel with us whenever we have the extra space, and Don's line is always, "I don't care if the Queen of England wants to join us, nobody else is getting the master bedroom!"  :hysterical:


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## dioxide45 (Jun 19, 2009)

davidvel said:


> I always love these 12/13 month threads.
> 
> Can anyone point me to anything in writing that says 50% of weeks are reserved for single week owners?
> .



No one can provide this because it doesn't exist. No weeks are reserved for single week owners, see previous posts. 50% are held back from early booking by multiple week owners but that doesn't mean that only single week owners can book them.


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## m61376 (Jun 19, 2009)

SueDonJ said:


> BUT there is that pesky "to occupy" which is never enforced, as far as I know, and in fact is completely ignored by the sales reps and Vacation Ownership Advisors.  Think about it, though - how is it even possible for an owner "to occupy" two or more concurrent weeks?



Technically by occupy they mean using the owned week; weeks can be occupied by the owner, family, friends, etc.. 

While the 13 month rule was designed for owner use and not trading, many here have exploited the system to maximize their trade value. Years ago when making consecutive reservations you had to specifically request separate reservation numbers but, from what I've heard, they are just commonly given out now.

Unless enough owners protest loudly enough that the system is being exploited things will remain as they are. Even if an issue was made about this, other owners would contend they have a right to use their week the way they want to (use/rent/trade), so it is hard to strike a balance. Unless it affects their bottom line, Marriott is likely to continue turning a blind eye to the practice.


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## m61376 (Jun 19, 2009)

dioxide45 said:


> No one can provide this because it doesn't exist. No weeks are reserved for single week owners, see previous posts. 50% are held back from early booking by multiple week owners but that doesn't mean that only single week owners can book them.



Right- who the weeks are reserved for is not discussed- the policy is that 50% of the inventory is released at exactly 9AM EST 12 months before the first day to reserve any given week and that multiple week owners reserving 2 or more consecutive or contiguous weeks may do so at 13 months before the first week of their connected weeks. As pointed out, at some resorts (Ocean Pointe comes to mind, for ex.) where owners may own 10 weeks, the first week can be reserved several weeks before the 13 month mark, since the last week in the string would be at the 13 month mark.


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## dioxide45 (Jun 19, 2009)

m61376 said:


> Right- who the weeks are reserved for is not discussed- the policy is that 50% of the inventory is released at exactly 9AM EST 12 months before the first day to reserve any given week and that multiple week owners reserving 2 or more consecutive or contiguous weeks may do so at 13 months before the first week of their connected weeks. As pointed out, at some resorts (Ocean Pointe comes to mind, for ex.) where owners may own 10 weeks, the first week can be reserved several weeks before the 13 month mark, since the last week in the string would be at the 13 month mark.



Really any remaining inventory is released at the 12 month mark. There may be more than 50% still available at this time.

The first week in the reservation has to be at the 13 month mark for that week from when you are booking it. If someone is booking 8 consecutive weeks then that last week is actually booked closer to the 15 month mark from the time you make the reservation. I think this is the same as what you said, just worded differently.


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## m61376 (Jun 19, 2009)

dioxide45 said:


> Really any remaining inventory is released at the 12 month mark. There may be more than 50% still available at this time.
> 
> The first week in the reservation has to be at the 13 month mark for that week from when you are booking it. If someone is booking 8 consecutive weeks then that last week is actually booked closer to the 15 month mark from the time you make the reservation. I think this is the same as what you said, just worded differently.



Haha- I think this is a case of "is the glass half full or half empty?" I guess your wording is probably what Marriott's intent is and, yes, we are talking about the same thing. The brain doesn't always work so well early in the morning


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## NJMOM2 (Jun 19, 2009)

If someone books multiple consecutive weeks at the 13 month mark at the same resort, does that decrease the 50% inventory of the second week’s availability for reservation at the 13 month mark?  If half the owners who reserved the July 4th week also reserved the following week at a given resort, does that mean if you want the second and third week after the July 4th week that only 25% of weeks for the week after July 4th are available at the 13 month mark?  This would keep 50% of the weeks available for reservations at the 12 month mark.  Who loses the inventory the 13 month people or the 12 month people?


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## m61376 (Jun 19, 2009)

NJMOM2 said:


> If someone books multiple consecutive weeks at the 13 month mark at the same resort, does that decrease the 50% inventory of the second week’s availability for reservation at the 13 month mark?  If half the owners who reserved the July 4th week also reserved the following week at a given resort, does that mean if you want the second and third week after the July 4th week that only 25% of weeks for the week after July 4th are available at the 13 month mark?  This would keep 50% of the weeks available for reservations at the 12 month mark.  Who loses the inventory the 13 month people or the 12 month people?



Well, no one "loses," but I guess from your perspective it is the 13 month people. Half of the inventory is saved to be released at the 12 month mark, so that at exactly 12 months, at least 50% of the weeks for any given date are available (the 50% saved + any leftovers from the weeks released at 13 months). Thus, as the number of multiple week owners increase, those owning and stringing together 3 , 4, etc. weeks and vying for the same weeks as a 2 week owner have advantage over the 2 week owner. 

Once 12 months comes along, then single week and multiple week owners, regardless of how many weeks owned, are all on a level playing field again. Thus, although it has been suggested that once there are more multiple week than single week owners the advantage shifts back to the single week owners, that really isn't true, because multiple week owners get two bites at the apple, so to speak (at 13 months and then again at 12 months), while single week owners can only reserve at the 12 month mark.


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## Dave M (Jun 19, 2009)

Here is some example wording from the Grand Chateau documents:





> Owners who own more than one Vacation Ownership Interest may reserve concurrent Use Periods, meaning two or more Villas during the same Use Period, or consecutive Use Periods, meaning one or more Villas for two or more Use Periods in a row, thirteen months in advance of the first requested Use Week for the first Use Period reserved. ... However, no more than fifty percent (50%) of available non-Developer inventory for each Use Period can be reserved more than one year in advance in this manner.


That means, as discussed above, that a minimum of 50% of the weeks will be available for those who call 12 months in advance.

I have documents for four other resorts that have similar wording.


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## ldanna (Jun 19, 2009)

Quoting Dave M : "...no more than fifty percent (50%) of available non-Developer inventory ...", when does Marriott reserve the weeks it has on inventory? Do we compete with Marriott when reserve a week?

Let me explain that: if MGV has 900 units or 900 weeks number 1 available and Marriott still has 300 weeks number 1, only 50% of the non-Developer inventory will be available, which means 300 weeks for the 13 months and 300 weeks for the 12 months, and not 450 weeks for each.

Is that right?


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## Dave M (Jun 19, 2009)

ldanna said:


> Quoting Dave M : "...no more than fifty percent (50%) of available non-Developer inventory ...", when does Marriott reserve the weeks it has on inventory? Do we compete with Marriott when reserve a week?


The same text that I quoted has language that prohibits Marriott from reserving its own weeks more than 12 months in advance. 

If a resort has 900 units for week #1 and Marriott owns 300 of those weeks, only 600 weeks are available to owners (up to 300 at 13 months), unless Marriott chooses to make some of its weeks available. 

Bottom line: Since Marriott owns certain weeks, it can do as it chooses with those weeks until they are sold. Marriott typically chooses to offer many of those weeks for rent, uses some for low-cost stays for prospective purchasers and sells some to II for use as Getaways. That's as it should be. Marriott owns them. They get to use them.


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## Cathyb (Jun 19, 2009)

Guess we single week owners can say good-bye forever to getting a July or August week unless Marriott puts in some stipulations like one in four years type stuff.  (Are you listening Marriott?)


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## Cathyb (Jun 19, 2009)

jme:  OK, the multi-week owner missed at 13 months and now it is approaching 12 month.  Do the multi owners have priority status over the single week owner to get a week?  Or are they equal in value at that time?


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## Dave M (Jun 19, 2009)

Cathyb said:


> Guess we single week owners can say good-bye forever to getting a July or August week unless Marriott puts in some stipulations like one in four years type stuff.  (Are you listening Marriott?)


 ...and...





> OK, the multi-week owner missed at 13 months and now it is approaching 12 month. Do the multi owners have priority status over the single week owner to get a week? Or are they equal in value at that time?


I think you may have missed the intent of what has been posted here, Cathy. Nothing has changed. Just as it has always been, *at least* 50% of weeks owned by owners will be available when owners call 12 months in advance. No one gets preference at 12 months. First come, first served. So if you have been reserving at 12 months in advance in the past, your chances of doing so again are as good as they have always been.


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## Cathyb (Jun 19, 2009)

davem:  I guess what I meant was that Marriott multiweek-owners are getting smarter and booking the weeks before July to get a top July week and string them; say a mid-month non-desirable June week with 3 additional weeks getting ahead of pwners of just two weeks.

Anyway, I am giving up on summer weeks and will stay there in Sep/Oct.  We just live 40 miles south and the weather is pretty nice then.


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## jme (Jun 19, 2009)

Cathyb said:


> jme:  OK, the multi-week owner missed at 13 months and now it is approaching 12 month.  Do the multi owners have priority status over the single week owner to get a week?  Or are they equal in value at that time?



at 9 am on the 12-mo day, it's a FREE-FOR-ALL, with anyone calling (or booking online) having the same chance. At that point, they simply release all remaining inventory to the first-come, first-served callers.  They have no way of holding weeks for "single-week owners". 

My suggestion remains the  same, if you call at 9 am you have a chance, or if you book online at 9 am, you may have a better chance. Callers at that time may not get thru, and even a short conversation with a representative will delay the booking a minute or two, and voila, they're gone.... at 12-mo day, book online! if still denied, call again every day thereafter. You may get lucky......it's happened to me....

With this type of reservation system (which happens to be the most fair, imho),  it's simply being in the right place at the right time. Again, as I've said before, it's all platinum owners calling for the very few "best" platinum weeks. There are lots of platinum weeks, but only a few "best" platinum weeks. There are a lot of tomatoes, but everybody wants the red spotless ones....jme


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## Ireland'sCall (Jun 19, 2009)

Wondering ...would calling Marriott Europe (in Cork ) give you a headstart in time ( 9am here is 4am in New York)


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## GregT (Jun 19, 2009)

This is an interesting post -- there used to be a concern that Marriott might find a way to restrict the 13 month booking window only to weeks that were purchased directly from them, and restrict resale purchases to either the 12 month (or a shorter) period.

Have we learned anything through all of this that makes us think it would be difficult to put that change in place?  If it's not in the deed, I would think they could change that?

I'm thinking of the Napili 2BR's that they are selling now -- it seems the only reason to buy it direct from them (since these would likely never be traded for MRPs) would be for a fear that a resale Napili might someday not be eligible for the 13 month booking window. 

Any thoughts on Marriott's ability to restrict the 13 month booking to just direct purchases?

Thanks!


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## taffy19 (Jun 19, 2009)

GregT said:


> This is an interesting post -- there used to be a concern that Marriott might find a way to restrict the 13 month booking window only to weeks that were purchased directly from them, and restrict resale purchases to either the 12 month (or a shorter) period.
> 
> Have we learned anything through all of this that makes us think it would be difficult to put that change in place? If it's not in the deed, I would think they could change that?
> 
> ...


I believe they can but only for ALL OWNERS because there is a sentence in the contract that they can, from time to time, change the reservation system. They did with us many years ago and there wasn't even a mention of the 13 months reservation window in the contract. It wasn't introduced yet.

I am still looking for my old contract because I know that we didn't throw it out but I had taken it out of the Marriott folder once before when we discussed this topic and I had promised it to Chris, when we would meet but we never met. When I find the contract,  I will post the clauses about the resort we owned.

Aren't there any other TUGgers here who still have a copy of the original MDS-I contract or any other resort from the time before the change took place?


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## SueDonJ (Jun 19, 2009)

GregT said:


> ... Any thoughts on Marriott's ability to restrict the 13 month booking to just direct purchases?



Uh oh, this is a can of worms that may explode so badly that the bait store will need to be closed for a week for haz-mat cleanup!

My thought is (and I'm applying this to everything, not just reservation policies) that Marriott is free to try to make whatever changes to the programs that it wants to make, so long as there is language somewhere in the contract documents that protects its right to make such changes.  Everywhere in the documents you can find "... as amended from time to time ..." bombs that would possibly protect Marriott if such changes were to be contested in a court setting.

(Because this is always added to these discussions - of course I don't think the specific unit type / season / resort that is purchased can be amended by Marriott.  Ever.)

Does this mean that Marriott will definitely make changes to any part of the program?  Nope.  Does this mean that I want them to make certain changes?  Nope.  Does this mean that I will be grateful for any changes they make that are legally enforceable that give me, as a direct purchaser, an advantage?  You bet I'll be grateful.  So would you!


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## taffy19 (Jun 19, 2009)

Dave M said:


> ...and...I think you may have missed the intent of what has been posted here, Cathy. Nothing has changed. Just as it has always been, *at least* 50% of weeks owned by owners will be available when owners call 12 months in advance. No one gets preference at 12 months. First come, first served. So if you have been reserving at 12 months in advance in the past, your chances of doing so again are as good as they have always been.


I still believe that more multiple week owners are competing now for the very best weeks 13 months out or even earlier. Everyone will get their week in their season but the best weeks are longtime gone. I vote for a "fixed week" instead which you can change too by making an exchange.

It is a lot less frustration!


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## SueDonJ (Jun 19, 2009)

Ireland'sCall said:


> Wondering ...would calling Marriott Europe (in Cork ) give you a headstart in time ( 9am here is 4am in New York)



I don't think so because the computers are set to update the inventory at exactly 9amEST.  Everyone has to figure their own time difference - folks on the west coast have to call at 6AM their time, you have to call at 2PM your time.  ( I think.  Time differences give me a headache.  )


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## SueDonJ (Jun 19, 2009)

iconnections said:


> I still believe that more multiple week owners are competing now for the very best weeks 13 months out or even earlier. Everyone will get their week in their season but the best weeks are longtime gone. I vote for a "fixed week" instead which you can change too by making an exchange.
> 
> It is a lot less frustration!



I'd love it if I could convert my two SW float weeks to fixed gold/platinum weeks straddling the Memorial Day holiday, because even as a multi-week owner I haven't had good luck with getting those at the 13-month mark.

You may be right that there are more multi-week owners now so they face greater competition at the 13-month mark from each other, but still 50% of the "best weeks" inventory is available to everyone at the 12-month mark.  At that point no individual week can be "longtime gone."


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## thinze3 (Jun 19, 2009)

All I can say is, Marriott really screwed this resort up as far as seasons go.  Even BeachPlace, that has platinum season for both winter and summer, doesn't have this problem.


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## taffy19 (Jun 19, 2009)

SueDonJ said:


> I'd love it if I could convert my two SW float weeks to fixed gold/platinum weeks straddling the Memorial Day holiday, because even as a multi-week owner I haven't had good luck with getting those at the 13-month mark.
> 
> You may be right that there are more multi-week owners now so they face greater competition at the 13-month mark from each other, but still 50% of the "best weeks" inventory is available to everyone at the 12-month mark. At that point no individual week can be "longtime gone."


Except for 50% the way it used to be in the old days.  One week owners had inventory of 100% before the change! We didn't like it so we got rid of the frustration and are very happy now. Of course, it wasn't a smart decision at our age but that is another story.


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## SueDonJ (Jun 19, 2009)

SueDonJ said:


> ... You may be right that there are more multi-week owners now so they face greater competition at the 13-month mark from each other, but still 50% of the "best weeks" inventory is available to everyone at the 12-month mark.  *At that point no individual week can be "longtime gone."*





iconnections said:


> Except for 50% the way it used to be in the old days.  One week owners had inventory of 100% before the change! ...



I think I want to change the wording here a bit, it's bugging me.    So ... 

"At that point (12-month mark), there is no way that *all* of any specific unit for an individual calendar week can be "longtime gone."

Ugh, now I'm driving myself batty but that says it better.  Maybe.

And of course it makes no difference to what you're saying, that your available inventory was reduced by up to 50% when the 12/13 month reservation policy was implemented "in the old days."


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## ciscogizmo1 (Jun 19, 2009)

MOXJO7282 said:


> Called at the stroke of 9am EST


  Actually, I think that is too late.  Here's how I do it and I've never had issues.  I start dialing the number around 8:55 am EST and keep hitting re-dial until the line picks up.  I also log-on to my computer and hit refresh until the week is available.  Lately, I've noticed the online part is a heck a lot faster but you can only do that for 12 month reservations.   However, since online reservations have been available I've discovered at the resorts I own at they never book up.  Waiohai has availability for every week next year up to this week.  Now, not all check-in dates are available but there is at least one day available.  So, I think, if you really want that July week and then, at 12 months you are going to have to have multiple phone lines going and the computer to try and snag a week.  

I do the same with camping spots.  It is the same game every where.  I even discovered how unfair the game is at reserving Yosemite weeks.  At least with Marriott, there are rules.  

So, my question now is that can a fixed week owner reserve multiple weeks?  From your post it sounds like all of July has been reserved.  So, do fixed week owners get to start reserving a week earlier.  Does that make sense?  Because if that is the case, I don't think that is fair.  I don't think Fixed week owners should be allowed to reserve multiple weeks.


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## Eric (Jun 19, 2009)

A fixed week owner still has to pick a check in day so yes they can 



ciscogizmo1 said:


> Actually, I think that is too late.  Here's how I do it and I've never had issues.  I start dialing the number around 8:55 am EST and keep hitting re-dial until the line picks up.  I also log-on to my computer and hit refresh until the week is available.  Lately, I've noticed the online part is a heck a lot faster but you can only do that for 12 month reservations.   However, since online reservations have been available I've discovered at the resorts I own at they never book up.  Waiohai has availability for every week next year up to this week.  Now, not all check-in dates are available but there is at least one day available.  So, I think, if you really want that July week and then, at 12 months you are going to have to have multiple phone lines going and the computer to try and snag a week.
> 
> I do the same with camping spots.  It is the same game every where.  I even discovered how unfair the game is at reserving Yosemite weeks.  At least with Marriott, there are rules.
> 
> So, my question now is that can a fixed week owner reserve multiple weeks?  From your post it sounds like all of July has been reserved.  So, do fixed week owners get to start reserving a week earlier.  Does that make sense?  Because if that is the case, I don't think that is fair.  I don't think Fixed week owners should be allowed to reserve multiple weeks.


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## taffy19 (Jun 19, 2009)

Eric said:


> A fixed week owner still has to pick a check in day so yes they can


Not at the MOC as it always falls on Saturday. This may not be the best deal for some of the airlines as mid week would be better so we arrive early and stay a few nights on Waikiki beach which is a plus again.


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## taffy19 (Jun 19, 2009)

SueDonJ said:


> I think I want to change the wording here a bit, it's bugging me.  So ...
> 
> "At that point (12-month mark), there is no way that *all* of any specific unit for an individual calendar week can be "longtime gone."
> 
> ...


You are right.


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## Ireland'sCall (Jun 19, 2009)

SueDonJ said:


> I don't think so because the computers are set to update the inventory at exactly 9amEST.  Everyone has to figure their own time difference - folks on the west coast have to call at 6AM their time, you have to call at 2PM your time.  ( I think.  Time differences give me a headache.  )



Thanks Susan ..not sure you are right. I thought it as a 2pm time for me ..so I phoned at 10am local time to check ..to be told that opening time was 9 am local. 
G


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## SueDonJ (Jun 19, 2009)

Ireland'sCall said:


> Thanks Susan ..not sure you are right. I thought it as a 2pm time for me ..so I phoned at 10am local time to check ..to be told that opening time was 9 am local.
> G



Now that would be a VERY interesting loophole that hasn't been exploited, yet, by the folks on this side of the pond!  Could you call back again and ask specifically if you can make reservations at your local 9AM time, which is prior to the 9amEST time (that Marriott specifies in all the paperwork?)


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## Ireland'sCall (Jun 19, 2009)

SueDonJ said:


> Now that would be a VERY interesting loophole that hasn't been exploited, yet, by the folks on this side of the pond!  Could you call back again and ask specifically if you can make reservations at your local 9AM time, which is prior to the 9amEST time (that Marriott specifies in all the paperwork?)



Indeed ..I should have added that as part of my 10 am call I was able to make my reservation for 2 consecetive weeks..but but ! my home resort is in Spain ...maybe its different this side of the world
G


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## SueDonJ (Jun 19, 2009)

Ireland'sCall said:


> Indeed ..I should have added that as part of my 10 am call I was able to make my reservation for 2 consecetive weeks..but but ! my home resort is in Spain ...maybe its different this side of the world
> G



Sorry, I didn't realize that you were able to make a reservation during that call.  Doh!

Oh man, time differences give me such a headache!  Somebody else needs to figure out the next question to ask about whether or not it matters where your resort is or which number you're calling, because if they don't then I would think any of us over here could call the European office at 9AM their time, which is prior to 9amEST, and get an advantage that way!

DaveM?  What am I missing?


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## Ireland'sCall (Jun 19, 2009)

Out of interest ,I doubled checked my booking . On May 12 last I booked 2 weeks commencing June 12 2010.
Time on confirmation is 10.08 am  ( Greenwich time )which New York time would be 5.08 am. 
G


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## ldanna (Jun 19, 2009)

The increase of multiweek owners might be a problem to reserve a good week, but a really great problem is the range of those platinum weeks.

Newport coast has 25 platinum weeks, too much. And 16 of them has demand index bellow 100.

Lakeshore reserve has 2 seasons: platinum and premier platinum. That's 40 platinum weeks, 27 of those platinum have TDI 100 or below, and some with TDI of 60. I think the calender the Palm resorts use reflects the demand a lot better than the new Lakeshore, and of course will reflect trade power a lot better. Why would a lakeshore platinum be a lot better than the same Royal blue (silver)?

Same scenario for Oceana Palms and Ocean Point.

If you have a platinum at Lakeshore reserve, TDI says you have only 2 good weeks (51 and 52), which means you will have the owners of 40 weeks competing for 2 good weeks. No chance! That's the problem, too much platinum owners for just a few good weeks!!


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## taffy19 (Jun 19, 2009)

ldanna said:


> The increase of multiweek owners might be a problem to reserve a good week, but a really great problem is the range of those platinum weeks.
> 
> Newport coast has 25 platinum weeks, too much. And 16 of them has demand index bellow 100.
> 
> ...


The whole system needs a change, that is obvious but making everyone happy will be impossible.


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## Beverley (Jun 19, 2009)

ciscogizmo1 said:


> ... but still I don't get the logic of owning multiple weeks when you just want one particular week in July.  To me it would be a waste of my vacation dollars but that's me.



What makes you think the people that booked out NCV own their multiple weeks just to book out July 4th??  

We own multiple weeks and "string" them together to get what we want.  For instance, we stay on HHI every summer for at least 2 weeks and wrap it around a stay at Ocean Point in Florida.  Ultimately we are away for 4 to 5 weeks.  We "string" our weeks together so that we can go from one place to the next without any gaps.   Consecutive week bookings are what the 13 month rule is all about.  While I am sorry Joe missed it this year, this booking practice is a terrific perk! and clearly allows us to reserve our summer.  

Beverley


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## Dave M (Jun 19, 2009)

Ireland'sCall said:


> Out of interest ,I doubled checked my booking . On May 12 last I booked 2 weeks commencing June 12 2010.
> Time on confirmation is 10.08 am  ( Greenwich time ) which New York time would be 5.08 am.


That explains what at first seemed to be a violation of Marriott policy. The reason you were able to reserve your weeks is that you called on the _second_ possible day for making your reservations. Had you called on May 11, the first possible day for reserving your dates, you would not have been able to make a reservation until 9:00 a.m., EDT.

When is the first day you can call? 13 months in advance of the _first_ possible check-in date for the first week you want. Because Marbella has Friday check-in dates, the first day you could have called was 13 months ahead of _Friday, June 11, 2010_. That would have been _May 11, 2009_. Since you didn't call until May 12, you weren't subject to the 9:00 a.m. EDT limitation.

Would it be any different when calling a local office in Europe than when calling a local office in the U.S.? No. If European resident owners at European timeshares could call five to six hours earlier on the first day than U.S. resident owners of European timeshares, the European residents would have an unfair advantage in making reservations, both at 13 months and at 12 months. That's why Marriott uses the 9:00 a.m. Eastern Time rule for that first day. It puts everyone on a level playing field in trying to make a reservation.


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## Ireland'sCall (Jun 20, 2009)

Dave M said:


> That explains what at first seemed to be a violation of Marriott policy. The reason you were able to reserve your weeks is that you called on the _second_ possible day for making your reservations. Had you called on May 11, the first possible day for reserving your dates, you would not have been able to make a reservation until 9:00 a.m., EDT.
> 
> When is the first day you can call? 13 months in advance of the _first_ possible check-in date for the first week you want. Because Marbella has Friday check-in dates, the first day you could have called was 13 months ahead of _Friday, June 11, 2010_. That would have been _May 11, 2009_. Since you didn't call until May 12, you weren't subject to the 9:00 a.m. EDT limitation.
> 
> Would it be any different when calling a local office in Europe than when calling a local office in the U.S.? No. If European resident owners at European timeshares could call five to six hours earlier on the first day than U.S. resident owners of European timeshares, the European residents would have an unfair advantage in making reservations, both at 13 months and at 12 months. That's why Marriott uses the 9:00 a.m. Eastern Time rule for that first day. It puts everyone on a level playing field in trying to make a reservation.


.
That explains ...thanks Dave .. 
Garry


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## davidvel (Jun 20, 2009)

GregT said:


> This is an interesting post -- there used to be a concern that Marriott might find a way to restrict the 13 month booking window only to weeks that were purchased directly from them, and restrict resale purchases to either the 12 month (or a shorter) period.
> 
> Have we learned anything through all of this that makes us think it would be difficult to put that change in place?  If it's not in the deed, I would think they could change that?


I can only speak for Shadow Ridge, but IT IS IN THE DEED. All owners (resale/direct) have equal reservation rights. 

If bored, read the Declaration : http://www.veljovich.com/homeweb/index.php?page=tug


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## davidvel (Jun 20, 2009)

SueDonJ said:


> Uh oh, this is a can of worms that may explode so badly that the bait store will need to be closed for a week for haz-mat cleanup!
> 
> My thought is (and I'm applying this to everything, not just reservation policies) that Marriott is free to try to make whatever changes to the programs that it wants to make, so long as there is language somewhere in the contract documents that protects its right to make such changes.  Everywhere in the documents you can find "... as amended from time to time ..." bombs that would possibly protect Marriott if such changes were to be contested in a court setting.


Absolutely impossible to change this right at Shadow Ridge or any resort with similar deed language:
http://tugbbs.com/forums/showpost.php?p=732543&postcount=168


SueDonJ said:


> (Because this is always added to these discussions - of course I don't think the specific unit type / season / resort that is purchased can be amended by Marriott.  Ever.)
> . . .


Well if you think that the language  "... as amended from time to time ..." allows them to change your right to reserve your week, then why not your season? 

Of course, they can do neither,  as these are deeded rights [again, at least at Shadow Ridge.]


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## aka Julie (Jun 20, 2009)

davidvel said:


> I can only speak for Shadow Ridge, but IT IS IN THE DEED. All owners (resale/direct) have equal reservation rights.
> 
> If bored, read the Declaration : http://www.veljovich.com/homeweb/index.php?page=tug



We purchased ShadowRidge resale and do not have copies of any of the declarations found in your link.  I've saved a copy of each for future reference.  Thanks for posting.


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## davidvel (Jun 20, 2009)

aka Julie said:


> We purchased ShadowRidge resale and do not have copies of any of the declarations found in your link.  I've saved a copy of each for future reference.  Thanks for posting.


No problem. You are welcome.


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## ciscogizmo1 (Jun 20, 2009)

Beverley said:


> What makes you think the people that booked out NCV own their multiple weeks just to book out July 4th??
> 
> We own multiple weeks and "string" them together to get what we want.  For instance, we stay on HHI every summer for at least 2 weeks and wrap it around a stay at Ocean Point in Florida.  Ultimately we are away for 4 to 5 weeks.  We "string" our weeks together so that we can go from one place to the next without any gaps.   Consecutive week bookings are what the 13 month rule is all about.  While I am sorry Joe missed it this year, this booking practice is a terrific perk! and clearly allows us to reserve our summer.
> 
> Beverley



Do you think I'm again 13 month window advantage?  I'm sorry if my posts implied that but I'm not.  I do like it.  I even gave the OP suggestions on how to secure the next week but I'm sure my suggestions will be ignored.

I just don't think everyone has as much vacation as you do.  I really do think some people bought multiple weeks to take advantage of the 13 month window.  Unfortunately, I think NCV seasons are wrong which is causing the problem.


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## SueDonJ (Jun 20, 2009)

davidvel said:


> ... Well if you think that the language  "... as amended from time to time ..." allows them to change your right to reserve your week, then why not your season?



Because the phrase isn't found in every provision in the ownership paperwork; its uses are specific and limited.  In my paperwork for SurfWatch, for example, it's not included in the PROPERTY DESCRIPTION (or related ULTIMATE OCCUPANCY) sections.  In the USE PERIODS section, however, it says this, "...  the Use Period actually used in any given year will be as reserved through the reservation system as set forth in the Time Sharing Declaration, as amended from time to time."   



davidvel said:


> Of course, they can do neither,  as these are deeded rights [again, at least at Shadow Ridge.]



Right, no questions from me about Shadow Ridge.  I agree.

You know, I haven't written anywhere that Marriott is free to do whatever it wants or even that I know exactly what they can and cannot do.  But there are so many variations in deed and contract language for each of the MVCI properties that I don't think a one-size-fits-all blanket "they can" or "they can't" argument can be applied.  (Although a lack of one-size-fits-all could be a deterrent to program changes, because the logistics of implementing those changes would be a nightmare.)  And as I said, I don't expect or want them to make any changes.  The program works fine for me, works exactly as advertised, as is.


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## SueDonJ (Jun 20, 2009)

Dave M said:


> That explains what at first seemed to be a violation of Marriott policy. The reason you were able to reserve your weeks is that you called on the _second_ possible day for making your reservations. Had you called on May 11, the first possible day for reserving your dates, you would not have been able to make a reservation until 9:00 a.m., EDT.
> 
> When is the first day you can call? 13 months in advance of the _first_ possible check-in date for the first week you want. Because Marbella has Friday check-in dates, the first day you could have called was 13 months ahead of _Friday, June 11, 2010_. That would have been _May 11, 2009_. Since you didn't call until May 12, you weren't subject to the 9:00 a.m. EDT limitation.
> 
> Would it be any different when calling a local office in Europe than when calling a local office in the U.S.? No. If European resident owners at European timeshares could call five to six hours earlier on the first day than U.S. resident owners of European timeshares, the European residents would have an unfair advantage in making reservations, both at 13 months and at 12 months. That's why Marriott uses the 9:00 a.m. Eastern Time rule for that first day. It puts everyone on a level playing field in trying to make a reservation.



I always hear, "Here he comes to save the day ...." when I see your name.  Thanks for figuring this out.


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## Beverley (Jun 20, 2009)

ciscogizmo1 said:


> Do you think I'm again 13 month window advantage?  I'm sorry if my posts implied that but I'm not.  I do like it.  I even gave the OP suggestions on how to secure the next week but I'm sure my suggestions will be ignored.
> 
> I just don't think everyone has as much vacation as you do.  I really do think some people bought multiple weeks to take advantage of the 13 month window.  Unfortunately, I think NCV seasons are wrong which is causing the problem.



No I did not think you were against the 13 month window.

The way I took (although I certainly could have misunderstood) what you were saying was that the preponderance of people bought extra weeks for the purpose of shutting out other 2 week owners.  I do agree that the 13 month perk was at least one factor for many people when buying a second week.  However, in order to string your weeks together to get to the head of the line so-to-speak, more than two weeks are needed unless the weeks are lock-off weeks. 

I was just giving an example of one person/ couple (us) that did not buy with the 13 month window in mind. Our first purchase 10 years ago was a 2 week purchase.  We bought 2 weeks to better work the point system allowing us to deposit one week for points and still use a week every year.   Since then we bought more weeks to be able to go away for a month and yet still have time to deposit with II to go on other vacations, give to our kids to use, or try to trade back in to another one of our other home resorts.

Take care.

Beverley


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## Beverley (Jun 20, 2009)

By the way ... I definitely agree the problem arises in resorts that have an  elongated platinum season that artificially describes the true demand.  This clearly causes a "mad dash" type of booking window to get into the true platinum time frame.  

We had gone for a tour at an off brand on HHI.  We stopped listening when they described their platinum season as beginning in March and continuing through to November.  Marriott's plat season on HHI is June July and August.  Gold season is also a very popular time (April, May and Sept, Oct), however, it is no where near the grid lock of the June July August time frame.  Marriott planned this right as far as demand goes which makes booking within your season much easier than at resorts that have the longer plat  season.  

Personally, as time has gone by, I think Marriott may have gotten a little greedy making the plat seasons longer so as to sell more higher priced plat weeks. IMHO.

Beverley


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## ldanna (Jun 21, 2009)

Beverley said:


> By the way ... I definitely agree the problem arises in resorts that have an  elongated platinum season that artificially describes the true demand.  This clearly causes a "mad dash" type of booking window to get into the true platinum time frame.
> 
> We had gone for a tour at an off brand on HHI.  We stopped listening when they described their platinum season as beginning in March and continuing through to November.  Marriott's plat season on HHI is June July and August.  Gold season is also a very popular time (April, May and Sept, Oct), however, it is no where near the grid lock of the June July August time frame.  Marriott planned this right as far as demand goes which makes booking within your season much easier than at resorts that have the longer plat  season.
> 
> ...



I don't see HHI platinum owners (and even Gold ones) claiming they can't book their weeks, and HHI owners usually use their weeks instead of trade them.

The calender is old, with 4 seasons, and reflects demand a lot better. 

But a platinum season in HHI starting in March all the way throught November is ridiculous.


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## dioxide45 (Jun 21, 2009)

ldanna said:


> I don't see HHI platinum owners (and even Gold ones) claiming they can't book their weeks, and HHI owners usually use their weeks instead of trade them.
> 
> The calender is old, with 4 seasons, and reflects demand a lot better.
> 
> But a platinum season in HHI starting in March all the way throught November is ridiculous.



Probably the worst calendar to date is Lakeshore Reserve. They have two seasons, platinum, and platinum premier. Premier goes from week 6 to 17, which is reasonable for the spring break travel season. However regular platinum takes up the rest of the year. So all owners for the 40 other weeks in platinum will be going after about ten prime summer, Christmas and New Year weeks. There will be some unhappy platinum owners at Lakeshore reserve in the next few years.


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## Beverley (Jun 21, 2009)

ldanna said:


> I don't see HHI platinum owners (and even Gold ones) claiming they can't book their weeks, and HHI owners usually use their weeks instead of trade them.
> 
> The calender is old, with 4 seasons, and reflects demand a lot better.
> 
> But a platinum season in HHI starting in March all the way throught November is ridiculous.



You are correct.  Generally there are little or no problems booking the platinum weeks for the Marriott resorts.  :whoopie:  The only time I have heard of a problem is when an owner calls a few weeks late (after the 12 months) and wants a July week.  Other than that the season reflects the demand.  

The other timeshare group that has the March through April was absolutely ridiculous and interestingly enough when I asked whether people had difficulty booking summers with that window the question was skirted.  When I then asked if they had any fixed weeks they said yes, when asked if they had any fixed weeks in the summer available they said "no". Hmmmm.  

"Probably the worst calendar to date is Lakeshore Reserve. They have two seasons, platinum, and platinum premier. Premier goes from week 6 to 17, which is reasonable for the spring break travel season. However regular platinum takes up the rest of the year. So all owners for the 40 other weeks in platinum will be going after about ten prime summer, Christmas and New Year weeks. There will be some unhappy platinum owners at Lakeshore reserve in the next few years."

No kidding.    I can think of only one good use for a platinum calendar like that and it is if you wanted to use the resort for trading almost all the time.  While there are "lesser" power weeks within the platinum season, the trade of a platinum will usually trump that of another season.  But, mostly I think the best use of the elongated platinum season is the money maker it is for Marriott.

Beverley


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## SueDonJ (Jun 21, 2009)

ldanna said:


> I don't see HHI platinum owners (and even Gold ones) claiming they can't book their weeks, and HHI owners usually use their weeks instead of trade them.
> 
> The calender is old, with 4 seasons, and reflects demand a lot better.



I agree, our calendars leave more room for finagling at the 13-month and 12-month marks, but it's still possible to be shut out of exactly what you want even with a multi-week advantage.  We might be competing with fewer folks who want the prime Memorial Day or Labor Day weeks, sure, but there will never be enough of those weeks.



ldanna said:


> But a platinum season in HHI starting in March all the way throught November is ridiculous.



Yep, what a nightmare that would be!


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## m61376 (Jun 21, 2009)

Beverley said:


> "Probably the worst calendar to date is Lakeshore Reserve. They have two seasons, platinum, and platinum premier. Premier goes from week 6 to 17, which is reasonable for the spring break travel season. However regular platinum takes up the rest of the year. So all owners for the 40 other weeks in platinum will be going after about ten prime summer, Christmas and New Year weeks. There will be some unhappy platinum owners at Lakeshore reserve in the next few years."
> 
> No kidding.    I can think of only one good use for a platinum calendar like that and it is if you wanted to use the resort for trading almost all the time.  While there are "lesser" power weeks within the platinum season, the trade of a platinum will usually trump that of another season.  But, mostly I think the best use of the elongated platinum season is the money maker it is for Marriott.
> 
> Beverley



Except that II doesn't care that Marriott has designated a week as Platinum. 

They evidently are doing a good sales job about that, though, since I have read posts from prospective owners thrilled that the season is so long so they will have their choice of any weeks. They lose sight of the fact that those school vacation weeks are going to be hard to get and, let's face it, a lot of people bought there because it is a high class resort with proximity to the parks; like you, I think those school vacation weeks are going to create a lot of unhappy owners.


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## Beverley (Jun 21, 2009)

I agree.  For trading purposes, platinum is platinum even though some of the platinum weeks do have higher demand indexes.  If trying to take your family to the parks during a school vacation, it is bound to be a nightmare unless you are in the position to line up a few weeks at the 13 month mark.  In a few years, as others have said, there will bound to be some unhappy/ irritated owners.  

Beverley


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## ldanna (Jun 21, 2009)

I do understand why Marriott did the Lakeshore Reserve calender the way Marriott did, but Cristal Shore, which is also a new resort, includes a silver season. Oceana Palms has gold, platinum and platinum plus.

Definitely, Lakeshore has the worst calender of all. I may be wrong, but I do think II considers the TDI more than the season itself.


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## m61376 (Jun 21, 2009)

ldanna said:


> Definitely, Lakeshore has the worst calender of all. I may be wrong, but I do think II considers the TDI more than the season itself.



II does not care what season Marriott has assigned to the week in question- they only care about the demand for the week (and of course the resort itself and unit size). So an off season October week, for example, that may be considered Silver at another resort isn't a better trader just because Marriott calls it Platinum at Lakeshore.


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## Dave M (Jun 21, 2009)

I agree 100%. Even at the same resort, some Silver and/or Gold weeks (e.g., holiday weeks) will often be better traders than some Platinum weeks. You can prove it by looking at the II Travel Demand Index for resorts with multiple Marriott seasons.


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## MOXJO7282 (Jun 30, 2009)

*update*

After trying again today, I was able to score the much desired summer week at NCV. I didn't get my son's b-day week, but got Saturday 7/31/10, which is 3 days after, so I can't complain much.


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## thinze3 (Jun 30, 2009)

MOXJO7282 said:


> After trying again today, I was able to score the much desired summer week at NCV. I didn't get my son's b-day week, but got Saturday 7/31/10, which is 3 days after, so I can't complain much.



Don't forget you can call in on July 23rd to change your reservation and book the week of your son's B-day. It may cost $29.


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## Cathyb (Jun 30, 2009)

Emmy:  Are you back to 'normal' travel to Hawaii and Mexico now?


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## Werner Weiss (Jun 30, 2009)

Beverley said:


> For trading purposes, platinum is platinum even though some of the platinum weeks do have higher demand indexes.



Actually, as m61376 and Dave M noted, Interval International does not care how Marriott categorizes a week for floating week sales and reservation purposes. Categories such Platinum, Silver, or Sport Season, are used by Marriott, but have no meaning with II.

II has a secret formula involving actual demand *for a particular week*, resort quality, deposit timing, and probably some other factors. So, in the case of NCV, the middle of July and the middle of November do not have the same trading power, even though Marriott considers both to be Platinum.

Also, a Marriott season category at one resort does not equate to the same Marriott season category at another resort. Chances are that an Easter week at NCV (Gold) has better trading power than many lesser Platinum weeks at other resorts, assuming both are deposited at 12 months.


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## taffy19 (Jun 30, 2009)

Cathyb said:


> Emmy: Are you back to 'normal' travel to Hawaii and Mexico now?


Are you referring to my husband's stroke? We still travel but it will never be normal again like it used to be. No more diving or even swimming or snorkeling and walking on the beach either. He is handicapped but he is better off than a lot of other stoke victims, we constantly see.

I make him go to our timeshares and hope it will continue. Don't take your health for granted because it is a gift.

Cathy, how is Maui? I know you are there.


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## jlp879 (Aug 2, 2009)

thinze3 said:


> Don't forget you can call in on July 23rd to change your reservation and book the week of your son's B-day. It may cost $29.



I don't understand.  The OP had a hard time getting any week in July and now he can call back later and get a week that he couldn't get earlier.  How would that work?


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## SueDonJ (Aug 3, 2009)

jlp879 said:


> I don't understand.  The OP had a hard time getting any week in July and now he can call back later and get a week that he couldn't get earlier.  How would that work?



Because the 13-month advantage for multi-(consecutive or concurrent)-week bookings allows for 50% of the available inventory to be held back for the 12-month booking date.  Since only 50% of the inventory is released prior to that 12-month mark, any owner can try for any week at that mark [edit: within the constraints of the particular resort/unit configuration they own, of course.)


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## Hal (Aug 6, 2009)

I tried to make  my first 13-month booking today, but was told that the weeks had to be at the same resort. I thought you could string together weeks at different resorts? 

As it is I will be phoning back at the 12-month window, and yes I was told that it was from 2pm Cork Time (9am EST).


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## AMJ (Aug 6, 2009)

You can use the 13 month reservation at different resorts. I do it every year and so do many other TUGgers. Maybe you can call back again and speak to another rep.

Joyce


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## Hal (Aug 6, 2009)

AMJ said:


> You can use the 13 month reservation at different resorts. I do it every year and so do many other TUGgers. Maybe you can call back again and speak to another rep.
> 
> Joyce



Thanks Joyce - having been rebuffed I didn't want to miss a good reservation on my other resort, so I used it for another date now. That is really, really annoying, but at least I stand a chance with the 50% held back for release at the 12mth window. Thanks for your help.


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## IuLiKa (Aug 7, 2009)

AMJ said:


> You can use the 13 month reservation at different resorts. I do it every year and so do many other TUGgers. Maybe you can call back again and speak to another rep.
> 
> Joyce



Joyce, I do not understand your post. What do you mean you can use the 13 month reservation at different resorts? You mean that you own 2 different resorts (at least) and you can use the 13 month advantage to reserve ( you do not have to own at the same resort)

Iulika


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## SueDonJ (Aug 7, 2009)

IuLiKa said:


> Joyce, I do not understand your post. What do you mean you can use the 13 month reservation at different resorts? You mean that you own 2 different resorts (at least) and you can use the 13 month advantage to reserve ( you do not have to own at the same resort)
> 
> Iulika



Yes, you can use the 13-month multi-week advantage to book at different resorts if the available weeks you book are concurrent or consecutive.  This is from the Marriott Timeshare FAQ sticky post up there.

It's very rare that someone will come here and say that they were unable to book at different resorts.  When it does happen, as Joyce said, the general advice is to call back and try again with a different rep.

(I saw your questions about your friends' Timber Lodge Platinum Plus Week 7 and a Maui to match up with it, but I'm not sure how the rules apply to Platinum Plus so I hope a Timber Lodge owner helps you out there.  It didn't seem, looking at the calendar, that a Platinum Plus could be consecutive with a Thanksgiving week?)


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## indyhorizons (Aug 7, 2009)

SueDonJ said:


> Yes, you can use the 13-month multi-week advantage to book at different resorts if the available weeks you book are concurrent or consecutive.  This is from the Marriott Timeshare FAQ sticky post up there.
> 
> It's very rare that someone will come here and say that they were unable to book at different resorts.  When it does happen, as Joyce said, the general advice is to call back and try again with a different rep.
> 
> (I saw your questions about your friends' Timber Lodge Platinum Plus Week 7 and a Maui to match up with it, but I'm not sure how the rules apply to Platinum Plus so I hope a Timber Lodge owner helps you out there.  It didn't seem, looking at the calendar, that a Platinum Plus could be consecutive with a Thanksgiving week?)




So Sue, just so I'm clear, if I owned 2 platinum weeks at diff resorts that both have week 13 as a platinum week, then I could reserve week 13 for both? Obviously I can't occupy both at same time (personally), so my reason for doing so w/b to:
1) exchange or
2) give to friend or family to occupy

Did I get this right?


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## AMJ (Aug 7, 2009)

Yes that is correct. I usually use my fixed week 26 at Harbour Point to reserve a week 27 at either Barony or OceanWatch 13 months out. I have also reserved a week at Cypress Harbour and the next week at Ocean Watch using the 13 month reservation. Once when I wanted to exchange my HP week, I reserved week 26 at 2 different resorts. 

Joyce


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## indyhorizons (Aug 7, 2009)

AMJ said:


> Yes that is correct. I usually use my fixed week 26 at Harbour Point to reserve a week 27 at either Barony or OceanWatch 13 months out. I have also reserved a week at Cypress Harbour and the next week at Ocean Watch using the 13 month reservation. Once when I wanted to exchange my HP week, I reserved week 26 at 2 different resorts.
> 
> Joyce



Joyce,

That is not my question. I am asking could you reserve both week 26 (concurrent) at 2 different resorts at 13 months out?


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## Cathyb (Aug 7, 2009)

*Dave - a lifesaver*



Dave M said:


> That explains what at first seemed to be a violation of Marriott policy. The reason you were able to reserve your weeks is that you called on the _second_ possible day for making your reservations. Had you called on May 11, the first possible day for reserving your dates, you would not have been able to make a reservation until 9:00 a.m., EDT.
> 
> When is the first day you can call? 13 months in advance of the _first_ possible check-in date for the first week you want. Because Marbella has Friday check-in dates, the first day you could have called was 13 months ahead of _Friday, June 11, 2010_. That would have been _May 11, 2009_. Since you didn't call until May 12, you weren't subject to the 9:00 a.m. EDT limitation.
> 
> Would it be any different when calling a local office in Europe than when calling a local office in the U.S.? No. If European resident owners at European timeshares could call five to six hours earlier on the first day than U.S. resident owners of European timeshares, the European residents would have an unfair advantage in making reservations, both at 13 months and at 12 months. That's why Marriott uses the 9:00 a.m. Eastern Time rule for that first day. It puts everyone on a level playing field in trying to make a reservation.



DaveM what would we do without you!  You make things SOOO clear that even I can understand them  :hysterical:


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## Cathyb (Aug 7, 2009)

*davevel--Where in the deed?*



davidvel said:


> I can only speak for Shadow Ridge, but IT IS IN THE DEED. All owners (resale/direct) have equal reservation rights.
> 
> If bored, read the Declaration : http://www.veljovich.com/homeweb/index.php?page=tug



davevel:  What part of the Deed -- Section;paragraph, etc?  We own at DSV I and Newport and I want to check it out.  TIA


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## IuLiKa (Aug 7, 2009)

SueDonJ,

I am kind of confused, because the sales people told my friend that if they buy the second week 7 at timberlodge Marriott, they can have the 13th month advantage and somehow get a week at thanksgiving in Maui.
And I know that you can only use the 13th week advantage at the resorts you own!

I am pretty sure there is a rule for season overlap, because I remember hearing about that at one of the presentations, and I also saw someting here on the board. Anyway, the sales rep will say anything for you to buy this days. They do have however some good deals on weeks which are not available for resale. 

IuLika


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## AMJ (Aug 7, 2009)

indyhorizons,

I am sorry that I wasn't clear. If you read my last statement, it says I reserved
week 26 at two different resorts. I should have added that I did that 13 months in advance. I hope that helps.

Joyce


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## indyhorizons (Aug 7, 2009)

AMJ said:


> indyhorizons,
> 
> I am sorry that I wasn't clear. If you read my last statement, it says I reserved
> week 26 at two different resorts. I should have added that I did that 13 months in advance. I hope that helps.
> ...



LOL, I think I missed the word once, so that kinda made the sentence not make sense to me.  Thanks for clarifying, and yes that is what I will likely do. I don't envision using the weeks consecutively, so that would be the only scenario I currently envision based on my current needs.

Thanks!


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## SueDonJ (Aug 7, 2009)

IuLiKa said:


> SueDonJ,
> 
> I am kind of confused, because the sales people told my friend that if they buy the second week 7 at timberlodge Marriott, they can have the 13th month advantage and somehow get a week at thanksgiving in Maui.
> And I know that you can only use the 13th week advantage at the resorts you own!
> ...



First, like I said, I don't know if different rules apply to a Platinum Plus week than apply to a Platinum week.  *If I'm wrong here I really hope somebody who owns a Platinum Plus or at Timber Lodge will correct me.*

Maybe your friends were mixing up two different things the salesperson was saying?  For instance, if they bought another Platinum Plus Week 7 at Timber Lodge, they would have the 13-month advantage to book those two same weeks concurrently.  AND, if they did book those two weeks, then they could deposit one of them to try for an exchange to Maui at Thanksgiving?  I would think that a Platinum Plus February week at Timber Lodge would have the trade power to pull a Maui Thanksgiving week.  But whatever they choose to try to reserve at the 13-month mark, it is subject to availability because 50% of the available inventory is held back for the 12-month mark, and, exchanges are dependent upon the week that you want to exchange into being deposited by another owner.

Adding another dimension, you're correct that seasons can overlap which can impact how the 13-month advantage can be used at different resorts.  For example, in your other thread you indicated that your friends' second purchase may be a Maui which has different calendars depending on what is purchased - a fixed or a floating week.  IF they purchase a floating week, there is a Platinum season of Weeks 1-50.  Looking at both calendars, the 13-month advantage could be used in that case if they book Week 7 at both Timber Lodge and Maui OR Week 6 at Maui and Week 7 at Timber Lodge OR Week 7 at Timber Lodge and Week 8 at Maui.  The only option with any of those to get Thanksgiving week is to deposit one week and request an exchange.  (However, they could reserve, subject to availability, at the 12-month marks their owned Week 7 at Timber Lodge and a floating Thanksgiving week at Maui.)

[Edit:]  Timber Lodge also has lockout usage which throws yet another log into this fire.  Hopefully whoever shows up here to agree with or correct what I've written, will also be able to address lockouts because I'm totally clueless there.


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## SueDonJ (Aug 7, 2009)

indyhorizons said:


> So Sue, just so I'm clear, if I owned 2 platinum weeks at diff resorts that both have week 13 as a platinum week, then I could reserve week 13 for both? Obviously I can't occupy both at same time (personally), so my reason for doing so w/b to:
> 1) exchange or
> 2) give to friend or family to occupy
> 
> Did I get this right?





AMJ said:


> Yes that is correct. I usually use my fixed week 26 at Harbour Point to reserve a week 27 at either Barony or OceanWatch 13 months out. I have also reserved a week at Cypress Harbour and the next week at Ocean Watch using the 13 month reservation. Once when I wanted to exchange my HP week, I reserved week 26 at 2 different resorts.
> 
> Joyce



Joyce is right.  Plus, in addition to your hypothetical weeks not being at the same resort, they also don't have to necessarily be the same season.  Different resorts have different seasons which may mean that a platinum week at one resort can be a gold week at another.  As long as the weeks that you are trying to reserve are concurrent or consecutive, regardless of them being at the same resort or having the same season designation, then you can try to reserve using the 13-month advantage.

We've been successful at the 13-month mark reserving some combination of Gold and Platinum weeks at Barony and SurfWatch for the 2-week period that straddles Memorial Day.  (Although not so successful with other combinations because of the number of owners who are trying to do the same thing.  )


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## Dean (Aug 7, 2009)

IuLiKa said:


> I am pretty sure there is a rule for season overlap, because I remember hearing about that at one of the presentations, and I also saw someting here on the board.


There is no season rule, one could be Bronze and one Platinum plus.  However, they must be able to be reserved for either concurrent or consecutive weeks to be eligible.


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