# "Friends" who use



## Elan (Jun 3, 2011)

Soliciting some input on this situation.  Sorry, kind of long.

  We have some friends that we see occasionally.  Not good friends, but more than just casual acquaintances.  Our kids go to school with their kids.  I seldom interact with either parent, but when I do, it's enjoyable as they're both intelligent, articulate and funny.  My wife interacts with the other mom more often due to the school situation.   Kids get along great with one another.  

  Neither one of this couple is handy.  Since they know I'm pretty good at fixing things, they've asked me a few times over the past 3 or so years if I'd help fix something.  I generally like to do that type of thing, so I've always agreed.  They've also asked my wife to do some things as my wife enjoys sewing and crafting.  They've also used my wife numerous times to pick up their kids from school (and watch them at our house) due to their work schedules.  And they've had me find them a cheap rental TS week.  There's more, but you get the picture.

  Call me a slow learner, but it just recently occured to me that these people have seldom done anything for us.  Not never, but very seldom.  If I had to put a ratio on it, it'd be maybe 10:1 in terms of favors.  Now generally, I don't "keep score" like this with friends, but as I said, it recently dawned on us (after the most recent repair incident) that we're being used.  

  So here's the dilemma.  I like these people, but I know they will continue to ask favors of us.  I don't want to make up bogus excuses as to why I can't do things for them, but I WILL NOT continue with the favors.  My wife is far nicer than I am, and even after we've had the conversation about being used, she meekly semi-agreed to sew something for them.   I am to the point where I don't really care about the friendship, but I don't want to be an ass about it (because we have mutual friends), and I don't want to ruin things for my wife who, although she agrees with me,  seems less offended by the whole situation and generally doesn't like confrontation/controversy.  

  How would you handle this?


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## timeos2 (Jun 3, 2011)

Be "busy" when they need your services and suggest a trusted contractor who you'd recommend for that type of work - basically letting them knw there is a value to your help & time.  Your wife doesn't have to change her ways if she's not bothered by it.  After a few "un-availables" they may catch on and offer you a small amount or simply move the work to someone else.  Don't be mean about it and don't make it a big deal just quietly stop doing things for nothing if you feel your being inconvenienced and they aren't returning the favors in kind.


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## Ridewithme38 (Jun 3, 2011)

Elan said:


> Call me a slow learner, but it just recently occured to me that these people have seldom done anything for us.  Not never, but very seldom.  If I had to put a ratio on it, it'd be maybe 10:1 in terms of favors.  Now generally, I don't "keep score" like this with friends, but as I said, it recently dawned on us (after the most recent repair incident) that we're being used.
> 
> How would you handle this?



IMO, i'm going to be honest here...Everyone uses someone for something...Weather it be a friend who handy around the house, one who works on cars for a living, or even a friend to cry on their shoulder or to gossip with or have a great conversation with....If your friends didn't have something about them that you were short, you wouldn't ever need friends...

I think, that they may use you for your handy abilities and your wife for her...crafting....BUT, its not like you don't get anything out of it...one of the first comments you had was *I seldom interact with either parent, but when I do, it's enjoyable as they're both intelligent, articulate and funny.* everyone has a different skill they bring to the table...your's is your ability to fix broken stuff....theirs is their ability to hold an enlightening, intelligent, articulate, funny conversation


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## Elan (Jun 3, 2011)

timeos2 said:


> *Be "busy" when they need your services* and suggest a trusted contractor who you'd recommend for that type of work - basically letting them knw there is a value to your help & time.  Your wife doesn't have to change her ways if she's not bothered by it.  After a few "un-availables" they may catch on and offer you a small amount or simply move the work to someone else.  Don't be mean about it and don't make it a big deal just quietly stop doing things for nothing if you feel your being inconvenienced and they aren't returning the favors in kind.



  Actually, I did this on the last "project".  I offered as many excuses as I could reasonably muster, although I'll admit that I wasn't as adamant about not giving favors then as I am after that project.  

  I don't think these people are conscious of the lopsided relationship.  They just tend to think of themselves (and their money) first.


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## chellej (Jun 3, 2011)

I would start asking them for favors and see what happens...maybe after a little bit they would get the point


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## vacationhopeful (Jun 3, 2011)

chellej said:


> I would start asking them for favors and see what happens...maybe after a little bit they would get the point



Yes, this would be my plan. Have them pickup and keep your kids for a overnight due to a your work adult event would be my first asking - then just stay home. If they show up about 10PM with your kids and an attitude, you have been used. 

If they don't show up, get your kids around noon.

Repeat as often as you need to "balance" the books.


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## myip (Jun 3, 2011)

Elan said:


> Actually, I did this on the last "project".  I offered as many excuses as I could reasonably muster, although I'll admit that I wasn't as adamant about not giving favors then as I am after that project.
> 
> I don't think these people are conscious of the lopsided relationship.  They just tend to think of themselves (and their money) first.



Did you ever ask them for help and they say no?  If you don't ask them, it will be lopsided and they are not even aware of it.


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## vacationhopeful (Jun 3, 2011)

Ridewithme38 said:


> ...I think, that they may use you for your handy abilities and your wife for her...crafting....
> 
> ....*theirs is their ability to hold an enlightening, intelligent, articulate, funny conversation*



The art of conversation is needed only for a kept woman or a gentleman escort.  _Friends are caring persons who think more than just about themselves._


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## horsecreek (Jun 3, 2011)

*Barter*

Be honest.  I like helping our neighbor across the street but after two years I feel as you.  I am starting to ask for things in return.  Watched their dogs over the weekend awhile back I charged a case of nice beer this time; noticed last weekend they got someone else which suits me fine.  I send my kids to their house occasionally now instead of having them over here all the time, I do it by saying "how about the kids play at you house this time".

I'm happier now just getting a little something and being honest with myself.  Don't keep score it's not worth it but asking for something of them is OK.


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## Rose Pink (Jun 3, 2011)

Jim, were you happy with this relationship before you "caught on?"  It's been said that true giving expects nothing in return.  I am not saying that is what you should do.  I am just asking when were you the happiest and most content?  If you can't go back to that, then follow the suggestions for being not available--or--bring up the topic with them face to face.  I doubt they realize what they are doing.   Maybe they think they are contributing more than they are.  I don't know their side of the story.  But the bottom line is boundaries.  You will feel better if you establish your boundaries and stick with them.  You'll be happier if  you don't keep score and don't judge.  Just make your boundaries and let the rest go.

That having been said, I don't like to feel used, either, and I hear your frustration.  I've been _very_ angry about being the Little Red Hen where my deceased FIL's affairs are concerned.  I haven't been able to take my own advice so feel free to ignore it as well.


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## glypnirsgirl (Jun 3, 2011)

Rose Pink said:


> That having been said, I don't like to feel used, either, and I hear your frustration.  I've been _very_ angry about being the Little Red Hen where my deceased FIL's affairs are concerned.  I haven't been able to take my own advice so feel free to ignore it as well.



Can you ask for compensation for your time?


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## ampaholic (Jun 3, 2011)

Ridewithme38 said:


> IMO, i'm going to be honest here...Everyone uses someone for something...Weather it be a friend who handy around the house, one who works on cars for a living, or even a friend to cry on their shoulder or to gossip with or have a great conversation with....If your friends didn't have something about them that you were short, you wouldn't ever need friends...
> 
> I think, that they may use you for your handy abilities and your wife for her...crafting....BUT, its not like you don't get anything out of it...one of the first comments you had was *I seldom interact with either parent, but when I do, it's enjoyable as they're both intelligent, articulate and funny.* everyone has a different skill they bring to the table...your's is your ability to fix broken stuff....theirs is their ability to hold an enlightening, intelligent, articulate, funny conversation



I think Ridewithme38 hit this one out of the park. 

I will add that for some - just the act of helping others is it's own reward (this sounds like your DW and mine as well) 

Yet for others, the culture they (me too) were brought up in warns "don't let someone take advantage" and these folks (like me) find it hard to just relax and give of themselves wholeheartedly with no thought of reward.

Please before you consider cutting them off for your favors - consider asking them for favors and giving them a real chance to "balance" the books. They might have some talents that will enrich your life - I for one would place a premium on enlightening, intelligent, articulate, funny conversation.

But that's just me (and ride).


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## glypnirsgirl (Jun 3, 2011)

When asked to do something that I would rather not, one of the things that I say is, "Well, I was planning on resting and relaxing, not working. That just doesn't fit with my plans." I say it friendly and nice. 

The other thing that I say is, "That sounds like work." I don't say this as nicely, I say it more with surprise.

I suggest practicing so that you can channel it spontaneously. 

Sometimes, if I don't mind and it doesn't interfere with my plans, then I feel free to do the favor. 

One of the greatest things about turning 50 is developing the ability to say "no" just because I don't want to do something. It used to be hard. Now I have practiced enough that it is more natural. 

elaine


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## Elan (Jun 3, 2011)

Thank you all for the thoughtful replies.  

  I agree that everyone gets something from relationships, but quite objectively, I'd say our relationship with this couple is pretty even on other terms (if one factors out the inequity of favors).  They enjoy our company as much as we enjoy theirs.   As I said, I don't need them as friends.  I have plenty of other intelligent, articulate, witty friends.   I just don't want to cause a stink for the aforementioned reasons.

 WRT asking them for favors, it's happened a few times.  Sometimes yes, sometimes no.  It's hard to explain, but with other friends it's seldom really _asking_ for favors.  It's usually that these other friends recognize a difficult situation and offer to help, and we do similarly for them.  If you have kids that ever need rides, or need watching for an hour while you're at an appointment, you'll likely understand.  There have been quite a few cases where the door has been very obviously open for this particular couple to step in and help us out, but that seldom happens.  I personally am not the type to ask for favors.  Just not my personality.

  Also, with our other friends, there's definitely no keeping score.  And there wouldn't be with this particular couple if it hadn't become so apparent that there was a huge disparity in favors.  Like I said, it took me awhile to dial into it.  While I genuinely enjoy helping people, I definitely have that "I'm being taken advantage of" instinct as well.  In an ideal world, I've done more favors for you than you've done for me, just not infinitely more.......  

  Lastly, let me just say that this is one of those threads where it's very difficult to convey the situation and my feelings regarding it.  Suffice it to say that I could cite numerous examples of non-reciprocated favors, but it would turn into a book.


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## caterina25 (Jun 3, 2011)

When a person feels used or when a friendship is a one way street ,you will always be counting.Why surround yourself with people that leave you feeling resentful.Friendship is about support and sharing.Move on and away from these people and don't look back.Pursue your other friendships and add some new blood to the mix.Don't feel guilty, they will soon find another couple to pick up where you and wife left off.They always do!


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## bjones9942 (Jun 3, 2011)

Jim,

I would tell them politely that you just don't have the time to do xyz when they ask.  They'll catch on after a while.  And it's true that you don't have the time - as you'll be spending it relaxing with your family.


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## Rose Pink (Jun 3, 2011)

glypnirsgirl said:


> Can you ask for compensation for your time?


Elaine, I could ask but I never kept track of how much time or how many miles I drove over the past 3 to 4 years.  I stepped in to fill a void that my DH and his siblings ignored or just did not know how to do.  I did it for family not for compensation.  

...._[Body of the post deleted because I was ranting and raving and detracting from the OP's post.]....._

 I didn't do this for money and money isn't going to make me feel better.  What I want is help but I'm not going to get it so I am hiring people and spending a huge chunk of _their_ inheritance to do so.  So there!  (Yes, I am ranting and raving.)

Like Elan, I have come to feel taken advantage of.  So, I feel for the OP and although it would be healthier for him and for me to just let it go, I know how difficult that can be.


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## Rose Pink (Jun 3, 2011)

Elan said:


> Lastly, let me just say that this is one of those threads where it's very difficult to convey the situation and my feelings regarding it.  Suffice it to say that I could cite numerous examples of non-reciprocated favors, but it would turn into a book.


 
I hear you.  You need to do what is going to help you feel at peace.  When you figure that out, let me know, too.


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## Ridewithme38 (Jun 3, 2011)

Rose Pink said:


> You need to do what is going to help you feel at peace.



This is the best post in the thread...in the end it doesn't matter what we say...You have to do what feels right to You..


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## pjrose (Jun 3, 2011)

I like most of the suggestions above - ask them to do things like take the kids, say "Sorry, I don't have time", and so forth.  You mention that other friends don't necessarily have to be asked; well these people may be kind of clueless and need asking - perhaps an easy "your turn," or "sure, I'll be happy to take your kids this time, but how about next week you return the favor".  

I do not like the idea of asking for or accepting compensation.  It takes a friendship relationship and makes it more of a business relationship.  I would never take money for helping a friend - though if the friend insisted, then I might accept a restaurant certificate or for them to pay for the next kids' movie night.  

I don't think I'd want to actually discuss the situation or point it out, as that would be awkward and hurt the friendship.  Think of the kids' friendship too, not just the adults.  I wouldn't do anything to make it awkward.

I suggest keeping it light: ok, but next time's your turn, or You've needed help with the mower several times; Let's work on it together so next time you can do it yourself.


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## pgnewarkboy (Jun 3, 2011)

You have a problem you need to iron out with your wife - not your or her friends.  She is happy with the situation.  You are not.  Until you come to an understanding with your wife you should take no action of any kind.  If she wants to be their friends even if "they take advantage" you may have to live with it to please the women you love.  If she understands your frustration and is willing to risk the friendship by doing less favors then you can take action.  If you can't "do a favor" for them sometimes just say you can't do it.  Period.  No big deal.  "I am sorry Joe but I can't help you today".  Say that as often as you feel it. Sometimes you may not mind helping them out.  There is no need for a big confrontation or a complex strategy.  Keep it simple.  I seriously doubt that these people whom you otherwise like will be put off if you occasionally say "  I can't help you out right now".


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## MuranoJo (Jun 4, 2011)

Rose Pink,
All I can say is you surely were an Angel to your FIL.  Frightening to think what his quality of life would have been if not for you.  But if this were a court case, I'd probably hang the rest of the family for neglect.  I was Executor of my Mom's estate, and never thought I'd see a dark side of my siblings as I did then.  It's something that sticks with you.

As long as slackers are enabled, it's easy for them to continue 'as is,' and they will.

In the OP's situation--since there are multiple relationships involved, I would also just say I have other plans, or I'm trying to spend more free time with the family.  If they're so articulate and intelligent, they should get the point after a few times.


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## glypnirsgirl (Jun 4, 2011)

> I didn't do this for money and money isn't going to make me feel better. What I want is help but I'm not going to get it so I am hiring people and spending a huge chunk of their inheritance to do so. So there! (Yes, I am ranting and raving.)
> 
> Like Elan, I have come to feel taken advantage of. So, I feel for the OP and although it would be healthier for him and for me to just let it go, I know how difficult that can be.



I think that you have been through a lot. I remember reading your posts because I too took care of my FIL with Parkinson's. And I knew how grueling and painful that downward spiral is to watch. And the decsions are so difficult. You were physically and emotionally exhausted by the time of his death and now even more is being asked of you.

It makes perfect sense to be resentful. It is their money and they are doing nothing. It should not be surprising because FIL was their dad and they did nothing. 

You took care of your FIL for love. And that makes good sense. We just cannot put a $ value on our love for someone. 

You are in a bad situation, but I think that you have come up with a plan. Hire more, do less. Sounds like it will work!

elaine


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## ronparise (Jun 4, 2011)

Tough situation

I want to agree with Ride and ampaholic  but as soon as I imagine myself in your shoes, I start keeping score too.  Im the go to guy in our real estate office when it comes to using the various computer programs we need to serve our clients. I dont mind helping but every one knows that they better not ask me the same question twice. I expect them to learn to do it themselves the next time

You know the old saying "Give a man a fish; you have fed him for today. Teach a man to fish; and you have fed him for a lifetime” I see these requests for help as teaching moments

I would let your friend know, on the next job, that you are going  do better than fixing his widget. You are going to teach him to do it himself. Take him to Home Depot to buy his own tools and whatever else he will  need to do the job and have him do it with his new tools and your instructions.


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## Tia (Jun 4, 2011)

Some people just do not get it  or care to , is my thought.

 I had neighbors who always asked for us to take care of their dog/cats when they were gone, but they were always going to be gone when I asked for same back, so we paid for a kennel.   When I said no she asked other neighbors all around the block for free dog watching and got it for a while. Another neighbor commented on it, I just said ya they ask us too.  Finally  I suggested my kids could watch their dog/cats to earn some spending $, which started happening. Neighbors still saved $ paying less then  kennel rates, which was the object, but my kids earned a few bucks.


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## Elan (Jun 4, 2011)

Tia said:


> Some people just do not get it  or care to , is my thought.



  I really think this is the case in my situation.  These folks act like we have more time and money than they do, when neither is true.  They are both PhD's, so perhaps there's some sort of inherent superiority complex that goes along with that.  Who knows?

  I do know that if it weren't for my wife's relationship with them, that our kids play well together and that we have mutual friends, the solution would be simple.  

  Thanks again to everyone for their suggestions.  This will work itself out one way or another.  Not like it's really all that big of deal in the grand scheme of things.


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## pjrose (Jun 4, 2011)

Elan said:


> I really think this is the case in my situation.  These folks act like we have more time and money than they do, when neither is true.  *They are both PhD's, so perhaps there's some sort of inherent superiority complex that goes along with that.  Who knows?*
> 
> I do know that if it weren't for my wife's relationship with them, that our kids play well together and that we have mutual friends, the solution would be simple.
> 
> Thanks again to everyone for their suggestions.  This will work itself out one way or another.  Not like it's really all that big of deal in the grand scheme of things.



So are we - we don't have a complex, and I don't think we're the exception.  

My Dad told me that our Bachelors degrees were "Bull S***" the Masters "More S***", and the PhDs "Piled Higher and Deeper"


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## Patri (Jun 4, 2011)

pjrose said:


> So are we - we don't have a complex, and I don't think we're the exception.
> 
> My Dad told me that our Bachelors degrees were "Bull S***" the Masters "More S***", and the PhDs "Piled Higher and Deeper"



:hysterical: :hysterical: :hysterical: 
But I bet he was proud of you.


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## Elan (Jun 4, 2011)

pjrose said:


> So are we - we don't have a complex, and I don't think we're the exception.



  Perhaps, but this is about my friends, not you or your husband.  In lieu of a better explanation for their behavior, mine makes as much sense as any.


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## tombo (Jun 4, 2011)

If the majority of interactions between you and them is when they want help with something, they are not friends IMO, they are users. Do they come over for no reason just to hang out? Do they invite you over for drinks and dinner? Do they ask you to go out to eat for a couple night out? You know how you feel and deep down you know why. My gut feeling is that you know you are being used but just don't want the confrontation if would require to end the use of your time and your wife's time.

In the past I owned a bass boat, a large ski boat that seated 12, and a place on a lake. I acquired "summer friends". Acquaintances that we were friendly with became our best friends every year when the weather got warmer. No phone calls or visits from September until March or so. However when we would have a spring week in the 70's or warmer the "summer friends" would start calling. It was always small talk, how's everything going, haven't seen you in a while, etc, etc, etc. Before we got off of the phone the conversation would inevitably turn to when you putting the boat(s) in the water? Are the fish biting? Is it warm enough to ski yet? We love your place. We love your boat(s). We can'twait to come to the lake this summer.

Two of my "summer friends" finally pushed me to the breaking point after a couple of years. One Saturday I was getting ready to go fishing and a "friend" called and said let's go fishing. The last 4 times he didn't offer to pay a penny of gas. I said I have yard work to do today, not going. I was fishing and saw someone waving at me and honking his horn by the dam. It was the guy I told I wasn't going fishing. I went over and he said I went to your house to talk you into going fishing and your wife said you were fishing, so I came to find you. I let him fish with me that day and I was so mad I was miserable. When I dropped him at his truck I said I can't believe I told you I was not going fishing today trying to say no in a nice way but you showed up anyway.  I told him to not call me again EVER to ask to go fishing because I was NEVER taking him again. He never called me again and I was glad.

The other "summer friend" who pushed me to my limit would show up with wife and kids EVERY weekend that it didn't rain. They would rarelly offer to pay a penny of gas and they brought some food, but it was mainly enough to feed their family. They never came to see us during the fall or winter, but couldn't spend a weekend without us during the summer. I felt used but my wife said be nice. The final straw was when they called and said we want to bring another couple with us. I wanted to say no but said OK. The couple came, brought no food, paid for zero gas, and best of all didn't know how to ski. I spent HOURS trying to teach total strangers how to ski. At the end of the day I said meet me at the boat launch to help me take the boat out and they said we would love to  help you but we need to get home cause it is late. My wife was busy vacuuming and cleaning up the lake place so we could go home and I by myself loaded the boat on the trailer while they drove home leaving us working. I called them later in the week and said I had a family meeting and we decided that the lake place and the boats are for family and occassional  invited guests only. Don't come to the lake anymore unless we call and invite you because we feel like we need to spend  family time together at the lake with just our family.  They never got that phone call inviting them back. 

We had then and now some really great friends who call us and do things with us year round, not just for special occassions. Those year round "true friends" are welcome to fish with me, ski with me, hunt with me, borrow my tools, my time, my labor because they do the same for me. These true friends never make me feel like I am being used. From my experience if you feel like they are using you, they probably are. And the more you give, the more they will take. You have other better friends. 

Politelly cut the ties from the users. The next time they want you or your wife to do things for them tell them that you are sorry but you are both way behind on projects you need to do and it is going to be a long time before you get caught up. The next time they ask say you are still not caught up and don't know if you will ever get caught up. They will eventually quit asking. If they want to do things WITH you even when you no longer do things FOR them, they might be true friends. My bet is that once they no longer get free labor they will no longer have any reason to be "friends" with you. That wll not be a loss, that is a blessing. I have not missed my "summer friends" at all.


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## vacationhopeful (Jun 4, 2011)

tombo said:


> If the majority of interactions between you and them is when they want help with something, they are not friends IMO, they are users. ..... My bet is that once they no longer get free labor they will no longer have any reason to be "friends" with you. That wll not be a loss, that is a blessing. I have not missed my "summer friends" at all.



Tombo, nice post.


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## glypnirsgirl (Jun 4, 2011)

+1

Great and thoughtful post. 

elaine


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## Elan (Jun 4, 2011)

tombo said:


> If the majority of interactions between you and them is when they want help with something, they are not friends IMO, they are users. Do they come over for no reason just to hang out? Do they invite you over for drinks and dinner? Do they ask you to go out to eat for a couple night out? You know how you feel and deep down you know why. My gut feeling is that you know you are being used but just don't want the confrontation if would require to end the use of your time and your wife's time.
> 
> Politelly cut the ties from the users. The next time they want you or your wife to do things for them tell them that you are sorry but you are both way behind on projects you need to do and it is going to be a long time before you get caught up. The next time they ask say you are still not caught up and don't know if you will ever get caught up. They will eventually quit asking. If they want to do things WITH you even when you no longer do things FOR them, they might be true friends. My bet is that once they no longer get free labor they will no longer have any reason to be "friends" with you. That wll not be a loss, that is a blessing. I have not missed my "summer friends" at all.



  Tombo, thanks for sharing your experiences.  Always enjoy your viewpoint.

  Our relationship with these people is not one where they only interact with us when they want something, nor is it "couples dinner" close.  It's mainly based on our kids' interaction, and beyond that, that they are seemingly decent people outside of this one "flaw".  Because of kids/school, we have numerous occasions to interact with these people.  To avoid them or confront them on this issue would be awkward, to say the least.   

  My last project for them was replacing the heater in their spa.  Not difficult, but it took 1.5 hours, and would've cost them well over $100 in labor if done by a spa technician.  No courtesy 6-pack of my favorite beer, and not even an offer of a drink of water while I was at their house.  The husband, who is literally useless when it comes to anything remotely mechanical, stayed in the house nearly the entire time.  Not even slightly interested in learning anything.

  I am definitely done with favors for them.  My wife can set her own boundaries, but I am going to emphasize to her to be more conscious of being used.


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## BocaBum99 (Jun 4, 2011)

There is no easy way out of this type of situation.  You have moochers as friends, plain and simple.  And, when you confront them with that fact, your relationship with them just isn't going to be the same.   The only decision you need to make is whether or not you like them as friends enough to continue to let them mooch.  Or, that the mooching bothers you enough that it's worth ending the relationship to solve the problem.

I tend to be a very generous person.  So, I find myself in these situations quite frequently.  The way it works with me is that I don't mind an inequity in favors until it gets ridiculous and then I just outright address it.  I do it knowing that it will end the relationship.  I first address it by becoming unavailable and increasing the cost of such freebie requests.  Then, if they don't get a clue, I just tell them outright that the relationship is imbalanced and it needs to be addressed since it is bothering me.  If they want to remain my friend, it's their choice.

Whatever you do, do not hold any guilt.  The problem is not you.  Also, do not let it fester.  The worst possible outcome is you let it eat at your for years and then you have a massive blow up.  Better to have that now and get it over with.


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## pjrose (Jun 4, 2011)

Elan said:


> Perhaps, but this is about my friends, not you or your husband.  In lieu of a better explanation for their behavior, mine makes as much sense as any.



Communication malfunction - I wasn't denying your potential explanation.  
Maybe their heads are so packed with whatever field they're into that they are oblivious to the world around them (absent-minded professors?).


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## easyrider (Jun 4, 2011)

Patience, respect, and sincerity go a long way and that everyone deserves that from the beginning. 

Be honest with these people and tell them with a smile " You owe me dinner" or whatever it is you have in mind.


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## jlr10 (Jun 4, 2011)

I had a friend who was like this with me, and all her other friends.  After a while it became obvious that the 'favors' were pretty much unreciprocated.  Everyone started telling her that we had or own lives and couldn't be her babysitter, house sitter, sounding board for her endless family dramas, etc.  In the end she had no friends as they all "betrayed" her by not being there in her "hour of need."

My recommendation, for what it is worth: The next time the offer a favor reply "I need a favor too. How about I do "XXX" for you and you do "XXX" for me?"  Depending on their response will tell you if they are taking advantage of you, or really are just unaware that they should bring something to the table occasionally too.


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## Rose Pink (Jun 4, 2011)

BocaBum99 said:


> ...
> 
> Whatever you do, do not hold any guilt.  The problem is not you.  *Also, do not let it fester.  The worst possible outcome is you let it eat at your for years and then you have a massive blow up*.  Better to have that now and get it over with.


Thank you, BocaBum, for addressing that.  I had logged in to say basically the same thing about not letting it fester.  I've done that for more than 30 years and now I am blowing up.  I trust that Elan will not go there.  

I disagree about who owns the problem, however.  The problem is not other people.  They are who they are and we can't change them.  The problem is within the self--that is the only one we _can_ change.  We can change our behaviors and we can change our attitudes.  We can be better communicators and state when we feel something is amiss.  But, if I am angry or resentful then that is _my_ problem.  It is my health and my peace that is damaged.  I need to address _my_ problem by communicating my needs more clearly or by setting boundaries.  Maybe I can inform the clueless users but I am most likely not going to be able to change the deliberate users.  I can only change what I am willing to do.


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## Rose Pink (Jun 4, 2011)

Elan said:


> ...
> My last project for them was replacing the heater in their spa.  Not difficult, but it took 1.5 hours, and would've cost them well over $100 in labor if done by a spa technician.  *No courtesy 6-pack of my favorite beer, and not even an offer of a drink of water while I was at their house*.  The husband, who is literally useless when it comes to anything remotely mechanical, stayed in the house nearly the entire time.  Not even slightly interested in learning anything.


Thank you, Elan, for reminding me (and perhaps others) that we should not take our friends for granted.  It's so easy to be distracted by our own needs such as needing a spa heater repaired, that we forget to recognize other people's needs such as the need for a simple thank you or to reciprocate a favor.

Elan, your thread has made me more conscious of my need to be aware of those who help me from time to time.  Once upon a time, I wrote a thank you note a day.  We can all use some uplifting from time to time and it had the added benefit of helping me feel better as well as I began to notice all the many little blessings that added up to make my life very good indeed.

So I will start by thanking Elan for this thread that has enlightened my awareness and to all those who have contributed to it with your experience and thoughts.


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## ampaholic (Jun 4, 2011)

When I was growing up in So Cal I had a 8th grade school friend who was always coming over to my house to hang (it was fine with me) and of course when dinner time arrived my folks would invite him to join in.

Well this went on for months and months and months and my mom began nudging us to have me go over to his place for dinner - he balked and wouldn't invite me over at all.

Finally my mom laid down the law ad sat us down and explained the concept of "reciprocity" - and that if he didn't invite me over at least once in a while he would be frozen out of invites to my house. A few days later I was invited to his house and ....

He lived in a mansion!!! (well at least 10 times as expensive as our middle class house) with a formal dining room. The meal was sumptuous - but it was like eating in a morgue - with servants yet :hysterical: 

His folks turned out to be polite and well groomed but very "cold" and (perhaps coincidentally) they were both PhD's as well.

I realized he wanted to be at my house because of the warmth and love around the table - it wasn't the "free food" it was the freely shared love he craved.

He was drawn to it like a moth to a light bulb.

When I explained this to my mom - she was touched - and we fed that kid once or twice a week until he went off to college.

I only rarely had dinner at his house.


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## Tia (Jun 4, 2011)

Similar happened with my kids and a couple different little friends from the neighborhood coming to our house after school a lot. I found out the one 5 yo there was no one was home after school and even sometimes on weekends, and the other well there was an abusive dad in the home (dr. jekyll and mr. hyde). Ya just never know.




ampaholic said:


> When I was growing up in So Cal I had a 8th grade school friend who was always coming over to my house to hang (it was fine with me) and of course when dinner time arrived my folks would invite him to join in.
> 
> Well this went on for months and months and months and my mom began nudging us to have me go over to his place for dinner - he balked and wouldn't invite me over at all.......


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## pjrose (Jun 4, 2011)

Rose Pink said:


> Thank you, Elan, for reminding me (and perhaps others) that we should not take our friends for granted.  It's so easy to be distracted by our own needs such as needing a spa heater repaired, that we forget to recognize other people's needs such as the need for a simple thank you or to reciprocate a favor.
> 
> Elan, your thread has made me more conscious of my need to be aware of those who help me from time to time.  Once upon a time, I wrote a thank you note a day.  We can all use some uplifting from time to time and it had the added benefit of helping me feel better as well as I began to notice all the many little blessings that added up to make my life very good indeed.
> 
> So I will start by thanking Elan for this thread that has enlightened my awareness and to all those who have contributed to it with your experience and thoughts.



Well said. Thanks Elan, and Thanks Rose Pink.


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## Ridewithme38 (Jun 4, 2011)

Tia said:


> Similar happened with my kids and a couple different little friends from the neighborhood coming to our house after school a lot. I found out the one 5 yo there was no one was home after school and even sometimes on weekends, and the other well there was an abusive dad in the home (dr. jekyll and mr. hyde). Ya just never know.



This is also a good point..sometimes what they are using you for isn't the apparent reason...has the OP considered that maybe this couple believes the only way they can see him outside of the car pool is by asking for help around the house?  Maybe its not the work they want from him...but just the company...i'd try a little sarcasm..."ya know, you don't have to put me to work to see me"


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## Rose Pink (Jun 4, 2011)

Ridewithme38 said:


> This is also a good point..sometimes what they are using you for isn't the apparent reason...has the OP considered that maybe this couple believes the only way they can see him outside of the car pool is by asking for help around the house?  Maybe its not the work they want from him...but just the company...i'd try a little sarcasm..."ya know, you don't have to put me to work to see me"


 
That thought had crossed my mind at one point but then the OP said this:



Elan said:


> ... The husband, who is literally useless when it comes to anything remotely mechanical, stayed in the house nearly the entire time....


 
So, if the man is staying in the house while the OP is out back fixing the spa heater, it doesn't seem like he is doing it for the company.  But I do like your idea of saying "ya know, you don't have to put me to work to see me."  That might clue in the user to his abuse of the relationship.


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## vacationhopeful (Jun 4, 2011)

Rose Pink said:


> ....
> So, if the man is staying in the house while the OP is out back fixing the spa heater, it doesn't seem like he is doing it for the company.  But I do like your idea of saying "ya know, you don't have to put me to work to see me."  That might clue in the user to his abuse of the relationship.



Yes, when the landscaping crew arrives to mow my yard, I don't stay outside to get in their way. I go inside until they are done. Their office sends me the invoice for work done.

ADDED: I don't personally mow this yard as it costs me little compared to the time involved. I do mow grass as 3-4 other places during the summer with each locale taking 45-60 minutes with the push mower.


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## Patri (Jun 5, 2011)

Jim, the drama of this thread is pretty exciting. Let us know the results after you do whatever you are going to do.


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## laurac260 (Jun 6, 2011)

The next time your friend asks you to fix something, do this.  Say yes, I'd be happy to show you how to fix that.  Go to his house, check out the problem, and tell him exactly what he needs to do to fix it.  Tell him everything he needs to get at Lowe's/Home Depot, and exactly how to do it.  Tell him that once he gets everything he needs to fix it, you'd be happy to come back over and supervise while he does the work and walk him thru it.  Keep it light and easy, even offer to bring the beer, whatever.  Who knows, maybe he'll actually learn how to be handy himself.  Stick with him if you value his friendship.  You never know when you might need it.  

I have told my daughter many times, when you are in need people will amaze you.  Sometimes the people you thought were in your corner will surprisingly turn their back and walk away.  And just as surprisingly, people you thought didn't even pay you a second glance will be at your doorstep as an angel in disguise.  I know from experience, and believe me, you never know when life will present you with a reason to need one of those angels.


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## Timeshare Von (Jun 6, 2011)

Wow lots of passive aggressive solutions here.

I would be straight up and honest with them.  If you aren't able to be honest with your "friends" then who can you be honest with?


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## vckempson (Jun 6, 2011)

laurac260 said:


> The next time your friend asks you to fix something, do this.  Say yes, I'd be happy to show you how to fix that.  Go to his house, check out the problem, and tell him exactly what he needs to do to fix it.  Tell him everything he needs to get at Lowe's/Home Depot, and exactly how to do it.  Tell him that once he gets everything he needs to fix it, you'd be happy to come back over and supervise while he does the work and walk him thru it.  Keep it light and easy, even offer to bring the beer, whatever.  Who knows, maybe he'll actually learn how to be handy himself.  Stick with him if you value his friendship.  You never know when you might need it.
> 
> I have told my daughter many times, when you are in need people will amaze you.  Sometimes the people you thought were in your corner will surprisingly turn their back and walk away.  And just as surprisingly, people you thought didn't even pay you a second glance will be at your doorstep as an angel in disguise.  I know from experience, and believe me, you never know when life will present you with a reason to need one of those angels.



This is the best advice I've seen so far.  Be honest with them and see if you can turn these favors into joint projects, they'll either leave or turn into strongly bonded friendships.  Isn't the latter really the goal?  It's hard to know what makes people tick and it's not always what you think.  Only when your back's against the wall do you really find out who your friends are.  That's for damn sure.


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## Elan (Jun 6, 2011)

One thing I didn't mention (among a list of many) is that the wife does the "man's work" (not trying to be sexist here, just the easiest way to describe it) in this relationship.  She takes care of all of the yard work and any other DIY type home projects.  To the best of my knowledge, he does none of it.  She was the one standing outside with me the whole time I replaced the spa heater.  She's the one who calls for advice/help.  I get along well with both of them, but more so with her.  She _is_ genuinely interested in learning how to do things, but she has that intimidation factor that prevents her from just tearing into something.  I can say with near certainty that he has no interest in any of it.  It's almost as though it's a given in this relationship that she'll handle all home maintenance issues, and he's completely off the hook.  I seriously wonder if this guy would know a screwdriver from a hammer.


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## Elan (Jun 6, 2011)

Timeshare Von said:


> Wow lots of passive aggressive solutions here.
> 
> I would be straight up and honest with them.  If you aren't able to be honest with your "friends" then who can you be honest with?



  Well, if it were just me involved, when I reached my tipping point, I'd likely be more than aggressive.  But, there's my wife's relationship and my kids' relationships to take into consideration.  Not to mention the mutual friends aspect.  Believe me, I've considered being very blunt about this, but regardless of how politely I told them we were done with favors there would be friction down the road.  

  Here's the deal.  I don't have to do anything right now.  I don't have to do anything until they call again.  I just want a little more fairness in the favors, which means either more from them, or less from us.  Both are viable solutions, but it's going to have to start with less from us.  

  This isn't the type of thing I lose sleep over.   It's more of an interesting relationship dynamic to me than it is a headache or source of stress.


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## pjrose (Jun 6, 2011)

Elan said:


> . . .   It's almost as though it's a given in this relationship that she'll handle all home maintenance issues, and he's completely off the hook.  I seriously wonder if this guy would know a screwdriver from a hammer.



Yup, he does sound professorial :hysterical: :hysterical: :hysterical: 

In what field(s) are their PhDs?


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## Elan (Jun 6, 2011)

pjrose said:


> Yup, he does sound professorial :hysterical: :hysterical: :hysterical:
> 
> In what field(s) are their PhDs?



  Psychology.  He's full time management consultant, she's part-time counselor.


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## vacationhopeful (Jun 6, 2011)

laurac260 said:


> The next time your friend asks you to fix something, do this.  Say yes, I'd be happy to show you how to fix that.  Go to his house, check out the problem, and tell him exactly what he needs to do to fix it.  Tell him everything he needs to get at Lowe's/Home Depot, and exactly how to do it.  Tell him that once he gets everything he needs to fix it, you'd be happy to come back over and supervise while he does the work and walk him thru it.  Keep it light and easy, even offer to bring the beer, whatever.  Who knows, maybe he'll actually learn how to be handy himself.  Stick with him if you value his friendship.  You never know when you might need it.



I have a 10 yo nephew who could supervise the job. Nothing like having the small kid be the brains with the tools (except his mother won't let me give him a battery operated screw gun).


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## Rose Pink (Jun 6, 2011)

vacationhopeful said:


> I have a 10 yo nephew who could supervise the job. Nothing like having the small kid be the brains with the tools (except his mother won't let me give him a battery operated screw gun).


Mothers can be so protective.


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## Rose Pink (Jun 6, 2011)

Elan said:


> One thing I didn't mention (among a list of many) is that the wife does the "man's work" (not trying to be sexist here, just the easiest way to describe it) in this relationship.  She takes care of all of the yard work and any other DIY type home projects.  To the best of my knowledge, he does none of it.  *She was the one standing outside with me the whole time I replaced the spa heater.  She's the one who calls for advice/help.*  I get along well with both of them, but more so with her.  She _is_ genuinely interested in learning how to do things, but she has that intimidation factor that prevents her from just tearing into something.  I can say with near certainty that he has no interest in any of it.  It's almost as though it's a given in this relationship that she'll handle all home maintenance issues, and he's completely off the hook.  I seriously wonder if this guy would know a screwdriver from a hammer.


 
Okaaaay....let's go back to Ride's comment:



Ridewithme38 said:


> ....sometimes what they are using you for isn't the apparent reason...has the OP considered that maybe this [woman] believes the only way [she] can see him outside of the car pool is by asking for help around the house? ........


But my imagination runs away with me. Shame, Rose Pink, shame.

That's what comes of eating Cheetos and watching chick flicks.


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## Ridewithme38 (Jun 6, 2011)

vacationhopeful said:


> I have a 10 yo nephew who could supervise the job. Nothing like having the small kid be the brains with the tools (except his mother won't let me give him a battery operated screw gun).



You joke...But my father was a writer/editor and my mom an administrative nurse...neither one knew what a philips head screw driver was(it was always called an X head)...When it came to fixing anything around the house...it was either i try to figure it out...or they pay some guy thousands of dollars....they were lucky that i turned out to be atleast slightly mechanicly inclined!  But i can't write worth a damn!

Alot of the time, the kids are the best people to ask!


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## MOXJO7282 (Jun 6, 2011)

Interesting opposite end of the coin. I have a very good neighbor who is a compulsive helper to a point where its a problem.

He is a great handyman and will help at the drop of a hat but its actually a nuisance because I like doing my own stuff and whenever he hears I'm on a project he comes over to help out. Latest is I'm hanging a new ceiling fan and he comes and takes over. 

No problem with the work performed, he's actually more efficient that me but it comes to a point where I feel guity about him helping out on every little thing and alot of times I just want to be trinkering by myself, alone in my thoughts. 

This is really hard because we're next door neighbors so he sees anytime I'm working on the house or the car. I told my wife to stop telling him about inside projects so he doesn't come over for those.

I know this sounds odd, and some would take full advantage of his unbridled enthuism to always help but when its everytime it becomes stressful. We really like this family so we have to some how grin and bear it because its just his nature but it does bother me I must admit.


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## tombo (Jun 6, 2011)

MOXJO7282 said:


> Interesting opposite end of the coin. I have a very good neighbor who is a compulsive helper to a point where its a problem.
> 
> He is a great handyman and will help at the drop of a hat but its actually a nuisance because I like doing my own stuff and whenever he hears I'm on a project he comes over to help out. Latest is I'm hanging a new ceiling fan and he comes and takes over.
> 
> ...



I wish he would move next door to me.


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## Elan (Jun 6, 2011)

Rose Pink said:


> Okaaaay....let's go back to Ride's comment:
> 
> 
> But my imagination runs away with me. Shame, Rose Pink, shame.
> ...



  Yes, shame on you!


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## Elan (Jun 6, 2011)

MOXJO7282 said:


> Interesting opposite end of the coin. I have a very good neighbor who is a compulsive helper to a point where its a problem.
> 
> He is a great handyman and will help at the drop of a hat but its actually a nuisance because I like doing my own stuff and whenever he hears I'm on a project he comes over to help out. Latest is I'm hanging a new ceiling fan and he comes and takes over.
> 
> ...



  Actually, that would bother me more.  Since I work in a field that is pretty esoteric and my job uses only brain power, I feel deprived of the gratification that comes from making or fixing something with my own hands.  There's little that pleases me more than being able to stand back and admire my own handiwork, or knowing that I just saved a small fortune by fixing something myself.  I just don't get that at my day job, so someone taking that from me would be more annoying than my current situation.


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## MOXJO7282 (Jun 6, 2011)

Elan said:


> Actually, that would bother me more.  Since I work in a field that is pretty esoteric and my job uses only brain power, I feel deprived of the gratification that comes from making or fixing something with my own hands.  There's little that pleases me more than being able to stand back and admire my own handiwork, or knowing that I just saved a small fortune by fixing something myself.  I just don't get that at my day job, so someone taking that from me would be more annoying than my current situation.



Exactly. This is a big part of it.


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## vacationhopeful (Jun 6, 2011)

Ridewithme38 said:


> You joke.... Alot of the time, the kids are the best people to ask!



*No Joke!* When he was 4 yo, he refused to go home with his mom because I was trying to get his 12 yo brother to stay for a week and help on the construction crew with the promise of tool bag full of new tools. He has returned every summer since with his tools. He tried to sleep with his tool bag at my house; he has more tools than his dad; he runs to repair things at his house; he will be 11 in a couple of months. Both of his older brothers fear stays at my house; he acts like I just said "Let's go to Disney World".


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## hvacrsteve (Jun 6, 2011)

Prepare a quote for the task, ask them which method of payment will work the best for them!


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## pjrose (Jun 6, 2011)

Elan said:


> Psychology.  *He's full time management consultant,* she's part-time counselor.



Sounds like maybe he's overly managerial.


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## pjrose (Jun 6, 2011)

vacationhopeful said:


> *No Joke!* When he was 4 yo, he refused to go home with his mom because I was trying to get his 12 yo brother to stay for a week and help on the construction crew with the promise of tool bag full of new tools. He has returned every summer since with his tools. He tried to sleep with his tool bag at my house; he has more tools than his dad; he runs to repair things at his house; he will be 11 in a couple of months. Both of his older brothers fear stays at my house; he acts like I just said "Let's go to Disney World".



I think I remember you posting elsewhere about him.  We live a few hours south of you, and have lots of projects he could do here!

My DS is like that with computers; even when he was five years old in kindergarten I remember the teacher running out in to the parking lot at the end of the day, snatching him from my car to come back in and show her how to do something on the computer.  Now he spends most of his college breaks and summers with the G'parents in NYC, helping them and their assorted friends with computer issues.


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## Passepartout (Jun 6, 2011)

I am sort of surprised/amused at how many people seem to have a friend/acquaintance who is a user that frustrates them.  Kinda like a useless brother-in-law, there's one in every family. Sure glad it isn't me 

Jim Ricks


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## pgnewarkboy (Jun 7, 2011)

*The perfect solution*



MOXJO7282 said:


> Interesting opposite end of the coin. I have a very good neighbor who is a compulsive helper to a point where its a problem.
> 
> He is a great handyman and will help at the drop of a hat but its actually a nuisance because I like doing my own stuff and whenever he hears I'm on a project he comes over to help out. Latest is I'm hanging a new ceiling fan and he comes and takes over.
> 
> ...



This is obviously the perfect solution for the OP's problem and Moxjo's problem at the same time.  The family that wants someone to fix everything for them should move next to the family that wants to fix everything for someone else.     I will gladly accept the  MacArthur Foundation"Genius Award".


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## glypnirsgirl (Jun 8, 2011)

pgnewarkboy said:


> This is obviously the perfect solution for the OP's problem and Moxjo's problem at the same time.  The family that wants someone to fix everything for them should move next to the family that wants to fix everything for someone else.     I will gladly accept the  MacArthur Foundation"Genius Award".



And you would deserve it. Brilliant!


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## Elan (Jul 15, 2011)

An update.

  So now it's summer.  Kids are out of school.  The mom seems to have real difficulty being with her kids all day.  She's a good mom, but seems to think that her kids need to be entertained 24/7 -- that they can't just hang out and be happy.  

  Anyhow, we have a community pool in our subdivision.  So the mom likes to get together with my wife and they take all of the kids (their 3 and our 3) to the pool.  Of course,  this is dependent on my wife going as the pool has restricted access (key card given to those who live in our sub).  So the mom calls the other day and asks if my wife want to get together for some pool time that afternoon.  My wife explains that she has an appointment, but maybe when she's done.  At the conclusion of the appointment, my wife calls the mom and explains that she's just not up to it today, maybe tomorrow would be better.  The mom replies "Oh, I have to work tomorrow, but my husband could _drop off_ the kids if you guys are going to the pool".   

  I busted up laughing when my wife told me this.  She had the audacity to think my wife was going to watch 6 kids at the pool by herself!  The other amusing aspect to this is that these folks used to live in our subdivision.  They know that we pay about $60/mo in HOA dues, a large percentage of which goes to running the pool.   They moved to a larger house outside the subdivision and are now apparently too cheap to buy passes at a public pool for their kids.  Additionally, a couple summers ago my wife lent this gal the pool key, and we had to ask to get it back weeks later.  

  Fortunately, I haven't had to deal with any of this, but I do find it amusing.


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## DeniseM (Jul 15, 2011)

How did your wife respond to the "dropping off the kids" statement?


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## Elan (Jul 15, 2011)

DeniseM said:


> How did your wife respond to the "dropping off the kids" statement?



  I think my wife said she'd call if she ended up going to the pool (which, of course, wasn't going to happen).  A polite way of saying "Are you effing crazy?!?".      As I said, my wife's wayyyyy too nice.


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## DeniseM (Jul 15, 2011)

I would have said, "I'm sorry, but I can't possibly watch 6 kids in the swimming pool by myself."


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## Elan (Jul 15, 2011)

DeniseM said:


> I would have said, "I'm sorry, but I can't possibly watch 6 kids in the swimming pool by myself."



 Agreed, that would have been better.  Aside from being very nice, I suspect that my wife was caught off guard by the outlandishness of the suggestion.  I certainly would have been.


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## BocaBum99 (Jul 15, 2011)

At this point, I would just tell them that you are starting to feel like they are becoming moochers.  Then, let them respond.  It will probably end the relationship, but it sounds like you may be better off without friends like that.


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## Elan (Jul 15, 2011)

BocaBum99 said:


> At this point, I would just tell them that you are starting to feel like they are becoming moochers.  Then, let them respond.  It will probably end the relationship, but it sounds like you may be better off without friends like that.



   After discussing this with my wife (about the time I started this thread), she's much more dialed in to their "using" and I think is now more sensitive to it than I am.   I think what will ultimately happen is that we will continue to not be available for using and either they will inquire as to what's wrong (if they dial in), at which time I will be very "to the point".  Or the relationship, beyond the neccessary interaction, will just wither away.  The latter is really the perfect solution, IMO.  No hurt feelings, and no more using.


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## pjrose (Jul 15, 2011)

DeniseM said:


> I would have said, "I'm sorry, but I can't possibly watch 6 kids in the swimming pool by myself."



Good one.  I might leave out the "I'm Sorry" because I wouldn't be sorry..... "nope, watching six kids in the swimming pool by myself wouldn't be much fun; maybe another time when you are there too."


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## BocaBum99 (Jul 15, 2011)

Elan said:


> After discussing this with my wife (about the time I started this thread), she's much more dialed in to their "using" and I think is now more sensitive to it than I am.   I think what will ultimately happen is that we will continue to not be available for using and either they will inquire as to what's wrong (if they dial in), at which time I will be very "to the point".  Or the relationship, beyond the neccessary interaction, will just wither away.  The latter is really the perfect solution, IMO.  No hurt feelings, and no more using.



That's probably what I would have done unless my wife continued to give without reciprocation (which is typically the case).  Then, I would jump in and become the bad guy.


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## Elan (Jul 15, 2011)

BocaBum99 said:


> That's probably what I would have done unless my wife continued to give without reciprocation (which is typically the case).  Then, I would jump in and become the bad guy.



  Exactly.  I was worried that my wife wouldn't ever push back and I'd have to intervene.  As it is, I think things will work themselves out.


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## BocaBum99 (Jul 15, 2011)

Elan said:


> Exactly.  I was worried that my wife wouldn't ever push back and I'd have to intervene.  As it is, I think things will work themselves out.



excellent decision.  I have finally learned that my wife gets really mad at me when I try to solve a problem that she doesn't want me to solve.


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## Patri (Jul 15, 2011)

Love these sagas. Jim, let us know how things are going at the end of the summer.


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## Elan (Jul 16, 2011)

Patri said:


> Love these sagas. Jim, let us know how things are going at the end of the summer.



  Well, since you find this so intriguing, I'll share with you that the dad called this morning to ask my wife what the key code was to our subdivision pool (the HOA added a keypad to go with the card reader this year) so that they could "sneak in to go swimming".  All I can say is that I'm really glad it wasn't me that answered.


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## vacationhopeful (Jul 16, 2011)

Elan said:


> Well, since you find this so intriguing, I'll share with you that the dad called this morning to ask my wife what the key code was to our subdivision pool (the HOA added a keypad to go with the card reader this year) so that they could "sneak in to go swimming".  All I can say is that I'm really glad it wasn't me that answered.



You could have someone call the association's manager/president or wannbe president and clearly inform them that prior neighborhood residents have on x number of days been using our private association pool. Then, calmly state that this is a liability which unchecked could nullify YOUR liability insurance.

Your association should limit the number of days a particular nonresidents may be "guests". Or limit the number guests during the season any member/homeowner of the association can have guests (hence, each family has 25 day guest passes), which would restrict the moochers in their brow-beating attempts. Or charge the resident $5 per person for each guest per day.


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## cdn_traveler (Jul 17, 2011)

Elan said:


> Well, since you find this so intriguing, I'll share with you that the dad called this morning to ask my wife what the key code was to our subdivision pool (the HOA added a keypad to go with the card reader this year) so that they could "sneak in to go swimming".  All I can say is that I'm really glad it wasn't me that answered.



W-O-W!!!!   The nerve...some people's children eh?!!


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## MuranoJo (Jul 17, 2011)

Not sure how your DW handled the call, but something like this might work in the future: "I'm not comfortable giving that to you as it is intended just for the subdivision, and it would be awkward for both of us if you are caught. However, let's plan a time *convenient for both of us *where we can have you over as guests."   

Unfortunately, if she did give the the key code, she has no control over their use from now on.

I've been following this whole thing and it just amazes me what nerve they have.


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## Elan (Jul 17, 2011)

muranojo said:


> Not sure how your DW handled the call, but something like this might work in the future: "I'm not comfortable giving that to you as it is intended just for the subdivision, and it would be awkward for both of us if you are caught. However, let's plan a time *convenient for both of us *where we can have you over as guests."
> 
> Unfortunately, if she did give the the key code, she has no control over their use from now on.
> 
> I've been following this whole thing and it just amazes me what nerve they have.



  Sorry, I should have mentioned in my post that my wife told them that we don't know the key code (which is true -- we still have our key card).  I presume they "tailgated" in behind others if they indeed came over.  

  This latest incident may be the final straw for me, as it really helps clarify their M.O.  If they were indigent I could see letting them use our pool.  They're not.

  WRT pool access, our sub is about 11 years old.  Original buyers were given 2 key cards each.  The idea was that one would turn their key cards in when they moved out (I guess).  Anyhow, if you lose your key card it cost $25 to get a new one.  I'm not sure why they added the keypad, except that most people have probably lost their cards by now or got tired of taking them to the pool.  It irritates me that they added the keypad because, as was mentioned, once someone has access they will always have access.


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## Tia (Jul 17, 2011)

A keypad combination can be changed occasionally I'd think and should be to prevent this sort of thing.


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## Rose Pink (Jul 17, 2011)

I don't know if these people are deliberate moochers or if they are just socially clueless.  When I look back at my younger adult days, I realize there were  many times when I was just clueless.  It embarrasses me now to remember those times. 

Having had much experience (especially recently) with getting angry and stewing about it, I can say that that anger and resentment is not a healthy way to function.  Best to say something up front, set boundaries, stick with those boundaries and let the rest go.  No judgements.  Gotta let the judgemental thoughts go.  People will either get it once you tell them or they won't.  They will either change their behavior or they won't.  They will repeatedly test the boundaries and you need to calmly keep saying "no."  Eventually, they'll give up or you just stop returning calls. 

What concerns me about these people is what they are teaching their children by example.  Are they raising a new generation of clueless (or shameless) users?


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## Tia (Jul 17, 2011)

Rose Pink said:


> ...What concerns me about these people is what they are teaching their children by example.  Are they raising a new generation of clueless (or shameless) users?



Good possibility. The lady who used to want free animal sitting would also frequently call to borrow cooking ingredients, then when her 3 growing dtrs were old enough they started calling to borrow cooking ingredients too when they wanted to make cookies etc. Nobody felt the need to make a shopping list or just go to the store. :ignore:  ( income in the family was better then triple ours)


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## Passepartout (Jul 17, 2011)

Hey Jim, I was gonna just drop by to have you put the tonneau on my pickup and maybe change the oil while I took a dip in the association pool. If you won't at least email me when you get the fridge stocked with my favorite brewskis I'll just have to find somebody else! 

Jim


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## vacationhopeful (Jul 17, 2011)

Tia said:


> Good possibility. The lady who used to want free animal sitting would also frequently call to borrow cooking ingredients, then when her 3 growing dtrs were old enough they started calling to borrow cooking ingredients too when they wanted to make cookies etc. Nobody felt the need to make a shopping list or just go to the store. :ignore:  ( income in the family was better then triple ours)



I would have called years ago to borrow a steak after each of their calls. And maybe a unopened bottle or two of a good red wine. If she made some comment, I would have just wrote it down for her next call as my reply.

I guess I would never make it a neighborhood. :ignore:

Yes, more and most people see themselves as the center of the universe. Sham in being irresponsible is nonexistant. I deal with the segment of "my life is rotten and I deserve more; so give me xyz". Alcoholics and druggies used to get my eyebrows raised with being so totally out of touch with the real world; now it seems to be mainstream esp with persons under 30 yo.


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## Elan (Jul 17, 2011)

Rose Pink said:


> I don't know if these people are deliberate moochers or if they are just socially clueless.



  That's a good point, and I've thought about this a lot.  I tend to give people the benefit of the doubt, but this latest pool incident definitely tips the scales toward me feeling that they think they're entitled.  A pass to a public pool cannot be that expensive.  And they live closer to a public pool than they do our sub.  I have no issue (or maybe I should say _had_ no issue) with them being our pool guests.  But this has gone beyond any justification, IMO.

  BTW, I don't really harbor any anger.  If you knew me better, you'd know I find things like this as much amusingly absurd as I do irritating.  Things like this typically play out to me like a badly written comedy.  Having said that, should I ever choose to directly address this issue, then they best sit there and listen, or they will get to see my not-so-nice side.


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## Elan (Jul 17, 2011)

Tia said:


> A keypad combination can be changed occasionally I'd think and should be to prevent this sort of thing.


 
  Sure.  But the people that tell their out-of-subdivision friends the code will just keep them updated.  Not that the friends couldn't borrow the key card, but at least that requires more effort than just a phone call.  Access should, at a minimum, require the key and a code.  Our HOA, like most, is run by acquiescing idiots.


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## Elan (Jul 17, 2011)

Passepartout said:


> Hey Jim, I was gonna just drop by to have you put the tonneau on my pickup and maybe change the oil while I took a dip in the association pool. If you won't at least email me when you get the fridge stocked with my favorite brewskis I'll just have to find somebody else!
> 
> Jim



  Nice try, but I think I've got a good enuf read on you to know that's isn't how you roll.


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## regatta333 (Jul 17, 2011)

This reminds me of the many years we opened our backyard pool to use by our neighbors.  This worked fine for many years.  Our next door neighbors were always very considerate and even went so far as to buy some sort of pool toy (floating basketball, etc.) every year.  They were mindful about not interfering with our use and this worked well for many years.  There was only one instance when another set of neighbors asked if they could use our pool for their son's birthday party.  I agreed, but was uncomfortable with the liability aspect, and felt that it was not really appropriate.

The real problems started with a set of newcomers to the neighborhood.  The mother was a stay-at-home mom with 3 young children.  She would show up every morning in the summer (often when my own kids who were teenagers were still asleep) and they would stay most of the day.  My kids complained about being woken up in the morning and did not want to go out and use the pool themselves when it was being used by small children.  They would bring food out by the pool and I would get home from work and have to clean food debris from the pool deck and vacuum the pool.  I did ask them not to eat in the pool area, so then they would still bring their food, but eat it out on our backyard deck.  The mom would lay in a lounge chair reading a book and not even pay attention to what her children were doing in the pool.  Her children would treat the pool equipment (brush, vaccum, etc.) like toys and she never said a word to them about it.
They would even come on the weekends.  

Things were coming to a tipping point anyway, when I heard about a teenager who had been paralyzed by diving into the shallow end of a friend's pool.  His parents were suing their friends who owned the pool.  That was it for the pool use for the neighbors.


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