# Demuere Webinar 10/26 thoughts?



## OneMoreTime (Oct 26, 2010)

What are your thoughts regarding the 2 hours we just spent?


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## OneMoreTime (Oct 26, 2010)

I thought it was a reasonable presentation, but still have many reservations.

If our rates include the carry cost for planners and hosts, then why is there a 15% surcharge for services booked? I know that is small change, but is it an indication of getting canadian nickel and dimed to death.....


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## ClubsRDead (Oct 26, 2010)

I wasn't convinced, but I guess they can always post $200-$300 nightly fees on the 300 homes on their site and I'd give it a test drive.

Nothing compelling in their discussion that made me decide to pre-pay at this point.  And I certainly wouldn't do it at my current dues level, maybe something less.

Did he commit to waiving the 15% or did I hear that wrong, ie do my dues stay the same?  I couldn't stay in the room the entire time of the call.


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## willmyclubmakeit (Oct 26, 2010)

*call*

I missed the webinar but my wife said the 15% increase is off the table so dues are equivalent to what you were paying.  one move at least in the right direction but the key is what are the rents.


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## golfisking (Oct 26, 2010)

When I got on the slide was stuck but the one I did see said something about credits for lost travel for 2010 and now 2011.  Anyone see or hear what this means.  I came on late


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## OneMoreTime (Oct 26, 2010)

*15% and other notes*

The 15% I was referencing was their surcharge if you book a chef through them. The 15% rate increase against our 2010 dues is off the table.

I am not sure if you can downgrade at the start of the relationship with their "community", but once in you are allowed to only increase your travel commitment only once in during the 5 year commitment and not back off.


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## brit007 (Oct 26, 2010)

The removal of plus 15% good move, but agree it all depends on the per night costs. As a Premiere member I suspect my choices will be limited and probably prices too high. Plus I have enjoyed this year going to Spain and Egypt non plan and want to go to non typical club counties and lI am not prepared to go back to 42 day plan(maybe 1/2) but that is so far not allowed, so under those conditions I would be out.


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## aisa (Oct 26, 2010)

*absurd*

We should pay to preserve "the community" but they are going to run a sensible(profitable) business.

That was the best he could come up with when asked why we should not just pay the $ 2500.00 fee on their website and get the same benefits with much less risk. 

If this plan was so good, and the pricing really as fair as they suggest, the current membership and housing inventory would be huge already.  If they were so good at matching owners and renters they would not need us or UE's homes.

This is not for me. I suspect i am not alone and the twelve million needed is not coming.

I admit I was scared about losing the ease of the club, but so far no disasters. I have found better deals, with more freedom, for my upcoming plans and without as much work as I expected.

Good luck to all, but I can already bet the rent per night will be insane. They may be what the market price should be, but then why be locked in to their inventory ?


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## UEgly (Oct 26, 2010)

when are they posting the rates on the houses?


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## ClubsRDead (Oct 26, 2010)

UEgly said:


> when are they posting the rates on the houses?



He said by tomorrow at 5 PM I think.

Not sure how this company can claim they have a 3 year track record and concept and have zero prices already on their site.  What about all the "other" members?  Simple answer - there are none.  

What he is trying to get out of our wallets is how he intends to build his business and pay for his infrastructure.  We simply are renters who front inflated costs to cover his operations and the fees he has to pay to the 3rd party management companies.


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## Kagehitokiri2 (Oct 26, 2010)

OneMoreTime said:


> The 15% rate increase against our 2010 dues is off the table.



great, but higher % required...

12 / 16.3 = *74%* 

was the $12mm figure REALLY required? or just another thing meant to be broken?



OneMoreTime said:


> but once in you are allowed to only increase your travel commitment only once in during the 5 year commitment and not back off.


ridiculous, unless there is no rate range, and there are no high end properties... (there *are* high end properties...)

http://www.sherpareport.com/destination-clubs/demeure-launches-1209.html


> 21 December 2009...over 50 members...37 member contributed homes


theyve got 374 properties listed online, including some high end villas (ah, for rental management companies..) the UE portfolio, hotels, etc

minimum deposit for members is 4 weeks, but no specification re season... TTT was only 1 week, but high season. and ill bet there is no minimum deposit for rental management companies and hotels etc.

http://demeure.com/club
http://demeure.com/villas

im not going to go back and see when the recent PR started (after that original article and couple others nothing for a while) but sure seems it was all leading up to this UE deal. maybe started when Q deal started falling apart? or they were kind of along with Q the whole time?


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## Desties (Oct 26, 2010)

Here is my open letter to Demeure.

I was not impressed with the presentation. They seem like good people, but I really think they are overplaying their hand here. Why should we commit to $60 million in travel through Demeure over the next five years?


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## Kagehitokiri2 (Oct 26, 2010)

heh.



Desties said:


> I really think they are overplaying their hand here.



seriously, if Q thought UE members would go for this deal, they would have done the exact same thing themselves.

now if they were talking lease only, even with initial acquisition...

and shouldnt capsource be interested in that while waiting for some market recovery?
but i guess capsource wants to lock in those buys.
so there is no way that $12mm figure is for real.

DC industry silliness continues.


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## Desties (Oct 26, 2010)

ClubsRDead said:


> Not sure how this company can claim they have a 3 year track record and concept and have zero prices already on their site.  What about all the "other" members?



Well, Demeure's claim is that this info is behind the pay well -- for members only. The rates for the homes on the site now ARE known, and during the call he alluded to some Canadian properties that are as low as $175 or so a night.  



golfisking said:


> When I got on the slide was stuck but the one I did see said something about credits for lost travel for 2010 and now 2011.



In a nutshell, they expect members to normally pay a 6-month deposit at the beginning that will be applied to the final six months of the 5 year term, or be forfeited if a member leaves after two years. The money paid to UE for travel unconsumed will go toward that deposit. 

At least that's my understanding of the situation.


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## ClubsRDead (Oct 26, 2010)

Desties said:


> Here is my open letter to Demeure.
> Why should we commit to $60 million in travel through Demeure over the next five years?



I agree.  They're playing us.  It's like having some well intending relative give you a home depot gift card for $100 for Xmas.  Home depot loves it when you only spend $76 and lose the damn thing.

These people are counting on us paying and not consuming; and / or -- them being to negotiate better deals for themselves at a lower per night cost.

As an example, we can book 2 years out, but the actual home is only confirmed at 6 months in.  So, you book some $1300 / night villa for xmas 2012.  They confirm you, but by then, they find something to plug you into that has a cost to them considerably less.  They've already removed your funds from your travel account - do you think they are going to "credit" you if they find something cheaper?

If they bring a bunch of UE people over and actually perform for certain property management companies, their rates will continue to drop but our costs won't.  It will just be the same 40% discount BS.  40% of what, the best rate, or the rate they tell us?

This whole thing would have been simply as an alternative to joining another DC and writing a check if they just pitched what they say their model was designed to be.  I think that once they start adding in the purchases, leases, and anticipated new overhead it gets too unpredictable and pricey.

Not to mention - they've apparently employed about every knucklehead they can find in this DC space.  McGrath, Cibic, Kain, Frost.  I am just waiting for the Lisa C EVP they used to have over sales to make it a complete "circle of ANTI-trust."


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## Kagehitokiri2 (Oct 27, 2010)

kain, frost, lisa - from TH?


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## Leonardo (Oct 27, 2010)

Desties said:


> Here is my open letter to Demeure.
> 
> I was not impressed with the presentation. They seem like good people, but I really think they are overplaying their hand here. Why should we commit to $60 million in travel through Demeure over the next five years?



Excellent letter, Desties!  Although I think that you are wrong about the differences between the UE offer and the 'standard' offer for the random non-UE poor speller who stumbles upon the Demeure website while searching for www.demureladies.com...

From my read of the website, a non-UE member has to pay the $2500 deposit, and also has to commit to five years by putting up a deposit to apply to the 5th year dues, and also must commit to an annual travel budget that gets lost if not used.  The website doesn't mention a minimum annual travel budget, so it is possible that non-UE members may be able to sign up for a $5000 per year plan, but there also might be a minimum that isn't mentioned; don't know.  So the only difference between the 'standard' plan and the UE offer is that UE members don't have to pay the $2500 initiation fee, and they choose our annual budget for us... plus they credit some portion of our lost 2010 dues to the fifth year.

Not that I think it is a good deal, nor one that I would likely participate in, but just wanted to clarify my read on the differences.


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## TarheelTraveler (Oct 27, 2010)

So it sounds like a good number of questions were answered, but not enough in the right way to impress at least the more knowledgeable folks that frequent the boards.  I wonder what the overall sentiment is?  I guess the 800 registered users on the other board are probably a good indicator.  Poll numbers get any better after the webinar?

From talking to people who know the industry, they do emphasize that Peter Schwartz is well intentioned.  Definitely some missteps along the way like the hiring of people that are offensive to burned members.  Not fashioning a deal that is any better (and probably worse) than what you could get by just going to the website.  Etc.

The concept behind Demeure is an interesting one, and while I don't agree with the marketing that it makes other villa travel options obsolete, it is another model that might provide an alterative to DCs and standard leasing agencies.


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## Kagehitokiri2 (Oct 27, 2010)

TarheelTraveler said:


> From talking to people who know the industry, they do emphasize that Peter Schwartz is well intentioned.



i can understand dropping equity mentioned in original PR.

but how does well-intentioned mesh with rolling property purchases (deposits) into dues?


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## Leonardo (Oct 27, 2010)

TarheelTraveler said:


> So it sounds like a good number of questions were answered, but not enough in the right way to impress at least the more knowledgeable folks that frequent the boards.



One very interesting bit of information:

Q.  Can we use all of the properties on the website, or just the UE properties?

A.  You can use any of the properties listed on the website; not all of them will offer a discount, that is up to the owner, but many of them do offer a discount.

To me, the use of "many" vs. "most" implies less than half actually offer a discount, and the rest of them are just using Demeure to advertise.  I wonder whether the price list that we will see this evening will be just for UE properties or all properties...


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## Kagehitokiri2 (Oct 27, 2010)

indeed. the numbers >


TarheelTraveler said:


> Of the roughly 150,000 nights that Demeure has available across its portfolio, about 30,000 of them offer discounts to club members, with the homes from Ultimate Escapes making up the bulk of this discounted group. The discounts range from *at least 20%* to 50% from the retail rental rate.


150,000 / 365 = *410* (they only have 374 on site - some hotels counting as multiple?)


Kagehitokiri2 said:


> UE = 11 own + 45 lease = 20,000 nights (out of 30,000 night figure


so UE *56*
then 10,000 / 365 = *27* = *7.7%* of 130K non UE nights = almost none



Kagehitokiri2 said:


> determining number of properties >
> 
> 
> 
> ...


thinking about it, interesting thats 91%, considering they were targeting a lower % of dues. (64% then 74%) might be explained by targeting higher dues paying members? 

re management companies - http://demeure.com/villas

so yeah, i guess theyre trying to compete with homeaway. as i implied in last thread, not smart.


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