# How wealthy are Tuggers?



## TravelTime (Jun 22, 2018)

When I first joined TUG, I assumed folks were relatively middle income because I read so many threads about trying to save on minimal amounts. However, as I have been a TUG member for over a year now, I am noticing many TUG members seem to be relatively affluent. I am curious if people could comment on this without revealing too much personal information.


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## Panina (Jun 22, 2018)

TravelTime said:


> When I first joined TUG, I assumed folks we relatively middle income because I read so many threads about trying to save on minimal amounts. However, as I have been a TUG member for over a year now, I am noticing many TUG members seem to be relatively affluent. I am curious if people could comment on this without revealing too much personal information.



Affluent means different things to different people.  My take is that tuggers are a mix of all income types.

As my brother in law once said to me "the lifestyle you live, everyone would think you are rich, but I know your not, you make much less then us."  It was true but I also was very good with how I spent money, still am.  Give me $20 and I will spend it getting much more then the average person. 

I am affluent in my lifestyle because of the choices I make.  I am thrifty overall and then enjoy my travels with all I didn't blow away on nonsense.


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## Steve Fatula (Jun 22, 2018)

Define what affluent and middle class means to you first. Hard to comment without it.


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## TravelTime (Jun 22, 2018)

Steve Fatula said:


> Define what affluent and middle class means to you first. Hard to comment without it.



I am not sure but I see a lot of comments from Tuggers indicating they are poor and they seem to have self pity and they are worried about $25 a night but they seem pretty well off, then I read many comments from people who aren’t as well off financially but live a fabulous life by making great financial decisions and being well educated.

I think the recent thread on retirement and pensions may exemplify what I mean.

 I think Panina made a great summary!


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## easyrider (Jun 22, 2018)

What is the definition of wealth ? If the definition is having plenty of anything each person really values then wealth is kind of subjective to each person. I would describe my house hold as very content, as in "its not having what you want , its wanting what you got." 

Bill


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## Steve Fatula (Jun 22, 2018)

I would only say this. For us, we have money for anything we want or need, never worry about it. So, one might say we are wealthy, we've heard this comment at times from people making more than we did. Our neighbors think so, but I know they have more money than us as they shared that info (and I know many of the properties and things they own too). Being retired now, I make $0. Just investment and interest / dividends until pension kicks in (worked for a company because they offerred this benefit), then SS. So, living mostly on savings until then.

There's a calculator here for net worth and where you fall:

https://dqydj.com/net-worth-percentile-calculator-united-states/

Based on that I guess relatively wealthy (I'll just say between 60 and 90%). But we have always saved, even when I made very little after college. We get the impression that many here have far more money than us. Including the OP here. Some have higher house payments than we spend total in a month.

We spend little, our biggest expense is travel. We live on several k per month, very well in our opinion but rarely wasting. We still have a house payment and will possibly as long as we live. But it was at the bottom rate for house loans. We don't spend on cell phones (just buy used ones), expensive plans (never paid more than $4 per month), have electric car powered by solar system, so, no ongoing expense. We run our cars until they die, DW car is a 2006 Prius but we almost never use it. When thay car does, we'll just use one, less insurance. We moved to a low cost state on purpose. We've made many decisions based on lowering our ongoing costs, without losing anything we really need. Instead of cable or satellite (we currently have sat but will cancel in December), since we mostly watch network tv, we use a linux based pvr that is free with an antenna. We do use Amazon streaming. That combination gives us everything we need, though, we may "splurge" for slingtv for a few channels we might miss, but TV is not a priority since we have many other things we do. The furniture we own was purchased to last a lifetime. We never chase technology. We built our house here with efficiency in mind. Very efficient green home, $0 per month all electric bill. We use drip watering. Never water the lawn. Health sharing. We use credit card offers and points/etc to our advantage, really it's income. Etc. etc. You get the idea. We use one after tax investment account that pays for all large annual expenses, like car and house insurance, life insurance, property tax, MFs. So, it's self sustaining. Yes, even if the market tanks.

That being said, I can say we could have $0 in 10 years if we didn't take care of our money. Going along as we do, I believe we can't run out of money. We could easily live well with just SS and pension. Same as we do now, including travel. 401k is merely a bonus. It might be used for larger purchases when needed, perhaps a new car in 15 years, whatever. Eventually, we'll have to withdraw it. Or, if SS is ever cut, we'll use 401k to replace.

Some might say we don't spend enough. But we don't need anything else! We have everything we need. We just live doing the things we enjoy, and try to help others. We go wherever and whenever we want.


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## artringwald (Jun 22, 2018)

If anyone asks me if they should buy a timeshare, I say no unless they're ready to commit to a lifetime of ever increasing maintenance fees. You need to have good financial security, or you shouldn't consider buying. I would hope that most Tuggers have that security. I had a good job, and now I have a nice pension with both of us collecting social security. I don't consider us wealthy, but we don't have any loans and don't spend much except for vacations. Not spending more than we make has helped our net worth stay about the same since I took early retirement 10 years ago.


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## WinniWoman (Jun 22, 2018)

I consider us middle class- though middle upper- not upper. If you get that. It takes two of us to have a 6 figure income- but that is the VERY bottom of a 6 figure income (wink, wink).

But- we paid our home off very long ago, despite having some blunders- like buying this house before the other one sold and in attempting to be landlords- big loss on a condo we bought for investment. Bought a plot of land with a second mortgage, but when sold had to pay a lot of taxes on the profit as the new law was not in effect at that time, so we didn't do as well on that investment either. Made some bad decisions when the stock market went down and sold our mutual funds at a big loss out of fear. Also got sucked into a movie limited partnership from a broker and lost money on that. That is when I decided I was better off managing our own money, though I wouldn't say I am so great at it.

However, always saved money since in our 20's- IRA's and so on. Even on lowish salaries. Never had 401k's until not that long ago. With the help of grandparents and our college savings- paid in full for expensive out of state tuition and expenses for our son.

Went through a ton of job changes due to layoffs and company takeovers- both of us. Many times having to start over salary wise.

Had both new and hand me down cars, a lot of them with high gas bills because of commuting- but always ran the cars into the ground.

Mostly do-it-your-selfers until our most recent home renovation as we are older now. But we still do our own cleaning and home maintenance and all that as much as we can.

Even on vacations- only eat out once in a while. Almost never eat out at home or even go to a movie or anything that costs money on a weekend except maybe a pay for view movie.

We bought our first timeshare from the developer with a gift from my parents, so we were very lucky and were able to have lots of wonderful vacations these past 20 years. We also were able to go on a few prior to that, including an very, very expensive one to Alaska, which was on my bucket list, for my 40th birthday.

We got the second timeshare for free- both are within driving distance so no airfare. So 3 weeks timeshares every year and then we always try to do an extra week somewhere else- either drive to or a biggie with airfare.

We have no debt thankfully either.

I inherited some money from my parents and if it weren't for that we would probably really never have enough savings to retire despite our good habits.

I consider us cautiously comfortable at the moment, but at a pivotal crisis stage because our jobs are at risk and we are not yet eligible for full SS or Medicare. Plus I am not sure what attempting to move from our home is going to cost when we do retire and it scares me as we can't afford to make any mistakes at this stage of our lives. Being able to pay continually high property and school taxes with just SS and savings also scares the hell out of me.

I would like to leave some money to our son, who is going to need it desperately, but if we live long I am not sure that will be possible, though maybe if we still own a home/condo - wherever it would be- he would inherit at least that, but who knows?. We could end up in an independent or assisted living situation or whatever.

I understand that it in blink of an eye, it can all go away rather quickly.


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## M. Henley (Jun 22, 2018)

North of 3.5


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## AwayWeGo (Jun 22, 2018)

We live like we're rich because we spend like we're poor. 

Examples:  Borrow money only for real estate.  Buy everything used except underwear & toothbrushes.  Pay cash most of the time.  Pay off credit card account balance every month (otherwise we're borrowing money).  Fix stuff ourselves if we're able -- & if we don't know how, give it a try anyway because if we mess up we'll just have a broken item & the thing was already broken anyway or we would not have needed to try fixing it.  

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


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## sts1732 (Jun 22, 2018)

I'm with east rider on this subject. Being retired for 5 yrs. now and wife to retire with in the next yr. we have no debt, our TS;s were bought yrs. ago, and with the education and wisdom of others they really don't cost us a thing. We are able to pay cash, have several IRA's, are able to go when we want and where we want. When it comes to money, I ask myself "how much money do you really need" I've found it's not that much, and when one door closes another opens.
There is a difference between need and want.


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## am1 (Jun 22, 2018)

Upper middle for you guys im sure.  Only pay insurance for 3 cars and $200 a month in health insurance.  No property taxes.  Have a maid come every morning.  No steady income.  Do not want for anything but in the planning stages of building a house.  Probably work (manage stuff we own) forever or until my sons take over or develop/sell off.

Important thing is that people are happy where they are or make changes to improve where they are.


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## x3 skier (Jun 22, 2018)

Since I can buy what I want including travel and other things, and if I can’t afford it, I don’t buy it, I’m either poor or rich.  Always lived within my means in good times and bad, never whined about it and I never missed the “extra” things I didn’t buy because I couldn't afford them.

Life is good.

Cheers


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## Passepartout (Jun 22, 2018)

I don't 'feel' wealthy, but the lifestyle contradicts that. As a truck driver with just a high school formal education, I never made $50,000 in any working year. But I had parents who instilled a habit of saving. The 80's & 90's were good to me. I married well. 9 years since drawing my last paycheck, I still save. Since now I have mandatory distributions, I'm not sure how that will work out.

looking at future generations and what I feel is the trajectory of American government, I'm troubled. But there isn't a lot that I can personally do about it.

My advice, live beneath your means. Save at least 10% of every paycheck. Follow Alan Cole's advice.  Toot your own horn.

Jim


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## bbodb1 (Jun 22, 2018)

TravelTime said:


> I am not sure but I see a lot of comments from Tuggers indicating they are poor and they seem to have self pity and they are worried about $25 a night but they seem pretty well off, then I read many comments from people who aren’t as well off financially but live a fabulous life by making great financial decisions and being well educated.
> 
> I think the recent thread on retirement and pensions may exemplify what I mean.
> 
> I think Panina made a great summary!



My reply to this is that I always want to spend my money in the most efficient and effective methods in order to maximize its effect.  How much money we make has no bearing on how we spend money.  I won't spend $25 unless I feel I am getting $25 of value in return.  Which (to touch on another thread) might explain why I do not tip housekeepers........


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## VacationForever (Jun 22, 2018)

We don't want debt and have paid in full for the last 2 homes and last 4 cars that we bought.  I also helped my son pay for his house in full last year.  Credit cards are fully paid off with every statement.  We are definitely not rich, could have been "richer" but we were stupid with money.

We are now retired and about 50 percent of our budget is discretionary, mainly spent on travel - timeshare and cruises, eating out, golf and fun stuff.  This year we have trips to Europe and South East Asia.  In the next couple of years, we have booked fairly extensive time in Europe, Australia, Tahiti, Bora Bora etc, where we fly in, do our land tour, get on a cruise and more land tour at the end of the cruise.

We are now more careful in where we spend our money and I have developed a budget for us. 

We sold our 2nd car, my garage queen, when we moved out of California.  I love cars but we now only have one, a 3-year old fully loaded Subaru Outback 3.6L.  Whenever my husband wants to buy a new car and trade in our Subaru, my immediate response is "We have no money and our plan is to get a new car when it reaches 7 years."  We had always sold our cars when they reached the 3-year mark and this will be a first in trying to keep a car longer than that.  We had owned alot of nice cars, including several BMWs.  Gosh, I used to make so much money when I was working for a large Fortune XX company that I would regularly spend several thousands of dollars on monthly shopping trips for designer brand handbags and clothes.  I am now quite the opposite, maybe I got all these superficial stuff out of my system.

We have no pension and my husband just started drawing on SS this year.  Heck, last year I even qualified for ACA premium and cost sharing subsidies.  We don't feel bad about it because in the past we had paid a ton of taxes and we were good employers to alot of employees for about 8 years before we retired.  I put us down to solid upper middle class.


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## VacationForever (Jun 22, 2018)

M. Henley said:


> North of 3.5


Investments or total net worth?


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## bluehende (Jun 22, 2018)

Steve Fatula said:


> I would only say this. For us, we have money for anything we want or need, never worry about it. So, one might say we are wealthy, we've heard this comment at times from people making more than we did. Our neighbors think so, but I know they have more money than us as they shared that info (and I know many of the properties and things they own too). Being retired now, I make $0. Just investment and interest / dividends until pension kicks in (worked for a company because they offerred this benefit), then SS. So, living mostly on savings until then.
> 
> There's a calculator here for net worth and where you fall:
> 
> ...



I like your calculator.  I am well into the 90's.

I  usually look at this one that factors in age.  It makes me feel a little less guilty on how lucky I am.

https://dqydj.com/income-percentile-by-age-calculator/


I do consider myself wealthy, but if you looked at our lifestyle you would probably have a different opinion.  We did it the way most do it.  We have always lived below our means and put the rest away in appreciating assets.  I am frugal (some people have accused me of another word).  We never gave into the whole materialism thing.  We have always vacationed well, eaten well, and never wanted for anything.  I always had an average job and as I have said in other threads my wife had a home daycare.  This usually put us right smack dab in the middle of the income scale.  Because of these habits and even after retiring early living the same lifestyle we are thriving.  I know this seems alien but I actually try to spend money on  things we would enjoy and not need.  It is hard for me.  I also realize that I have had a lot of luck.  I have had a stable job and a real estate investment property when I was young set us up for living debt free from 36 on.  I have also been lucky enough to live in an era of unprecedented market gains.  I am certainly no real estate or market guru, just a guy who dis a few smart things and got lucky.


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## Steve Fatula (Jun 22, 2018)

bluehende said:


> I like your calculator.  I am well into the 90's.
> 
> I  usually look at this one that factors in age.  It makes me feel a little less guilty on how lucky I am.
> 
> ...



But my income is 0. A better measure for older or soon to be retired or retired folks is net worth. Net worth by age would be nice. So, it's there also:

https://dqydj.com/net-worth-by-age-calculator-united-states/

That makes me 2% lower than the other link I had posted, so, not much different! Surprised actually. I thought I would be much lower since older folks obviously have more money. Anyone in 90th percentile (to me) must be rich. By definition.  Sadly, that's not us.

Totally agree though, live well within your means. Would the other word be cheap? I was accused of that! I couldn't care less about BMW's, Mercedes, etc. It is good to hear you are thriving, we feel that way also! It was scary to quit early in a way, but, the planning was there. 

We are debt free also, with the exception of the house. With the timing correct, the super low interest rate does not matter to me. The money we use to make our house payment is an after tax investment account that earns more interest than the house payment costs, so, it's a money loser to pay off. Rather keep the money, and, have it pay off the house eventually and still have the money.


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## Elan (Jun 22, 2018)

I don't really want for much, so I guess I'm pretty wealthy.  Like most, the importance of _things_ goes down as I get older.  I'm not big on world travel or luxuries, so I don't anticipate huge retirement expenses.  Give me an annual pass at the muni, 3 of my good friends to join me, and enough $ to buy a decent IPA or two afterward, and I'll be happy.  
  Having said that, I'm an older parent saving for 3 kids college educations, so I live below my means until I am confident I have that expense covered.  House is paid off, as are the 4 cars and RV.  Should be good barring major surprises.


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## SmithOp (Jun 22, 2018)

I drop 10% by age, from the 80s down into the 70s, using your calculators.

That was a conscious decision, we preferred to retire in our 50s and enjoy life rather than keep working to build net worth.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro


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## Panina (Jun 22, 2018)

SmithOp said:


> I drop 10% by age, from the 80s down into the 70s, using your calculators.
> 
> That was a conscious decision, we preferred to retire in our 50s and enjoy life rather than keep working to build net worth.
> 
> ...


I did the same, retired in my early 50’s.  My first husband had one wonderful year of early retirement before he passed away.  Priceless.  I was still working. It taught me each day is a gift, not a given, so I retired early.


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## rickandcindy23 (Jun 22, 2018)

Many of our friends and family think we are doing very well, but we do drive a car that is 15 years old, and that saves us a ton of money.  This was a conversation we had with our kids just recently.  When you buy a car brand new, you pay a great deal of money for it.  Trading it in after 3-4 years to get something newer is just a waste of money.  It's basically $500-600 per month for your entire life.  I would rather pay a car off and then go 15 years without a car payment at all. 

In fact, our car cost $35K 15 years ago, and we knew we would have no problems with it mechanically, since it's a Toyota Avalon.  So we planned on keeping it at least 18 years.  Our last pickup truck, a Nissan Frontier, lasted 19 years and ticked along for about 280K with no problems.  Even when we sold the thing it was still running great.  The teenager who bought it was thrilled. 

Change the oil every few thousand miles over the years, and you can put that car payment money in the bank.


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## Steve Fatula (Jun 22, 2018)

rickandcindy23 said:


> Many of our friends and family think we are doing very well, but we do drive a car that is 15 years old, and that saves us a ton of money.  This was a conversation we had with our kids just recently.  When you buy a car brand new, you pay a great deal of money for it.  Trading it in after 3-4 years to get something newer is just a waste of money.  It's basically $500-600 per month for your entire life.  I would rather pay a car off and then go 15 years without a car payment at all.
> 
> In fact, our car cost $35K 15 years ago, and we knew we would have no problems with it mechanically, since it's a Toyota Avalon.  So we planned on keeping it at least 18 years.  Our last pickup truck, a Nissan Frontier, lasted 19 years and ticked along for about 280K with no problems.  Even when we sold the thing it was still running great.  The teenager who bought it was thrilled.
> 
> Change the oil every few years, and you can put that car payment money in the bank.



Totally agree with your car strategy. New cars are almost as bad as a timeshare purchase from a developer. The second you drive it away, it's worth a lot less. And it quickly depreciates to close (relative to the cost) to $0. The younger folks who renew their car every 3-4 years cost themselves a ton of savings! They would have a fortune at retirement just changing that one behavior. But, they also see others doing the same, etc.


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## AwayWeGo (Jun 22, 2018)

Charles Dickens pretty much nailed it . . . 
_​__Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure nineteen six, result happiness. 
Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure twenty pound ought and six, result misery.​_
Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​_
_​


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## Lydlady (Jun 22, 2018)

Basic income, not so great.  I have a decent-paying job; DH works construction, so his work really varies.  House payment is low.  We have rental properties which help cover mortgage payments.  Normally vehicles are paid off; however, my 12-year-old car sounded like it was dying and I took over a lease for someone who wanted out of one.  We have very good insurance.  Looking to retire in about six years and should have a pretty good pension at that time.  So all in all, can't really complain.


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## Steve Fatula (Jun 22, 2018)

Wow, according to PEW, I suspect more people here are upper class than they think! Assuming you agree with their methodology (upper class = more than double the median).

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/03/20/how-much-you-have-to-earn-to-be-upper-class.html

Still, where you live should be a factor. The article states that people making $250k don't feel wealthy. Hah! Living here, you'd be well beyond wealthy! Probably in the 99th percentile. If you don't call 99th percentile wealthy, I don't know what is. I couldn't possibly spend that much. Yes, I know it's possible. But I couldn't.


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## silentg (Jun 22, 2018)

We never discuss religion, politics, or our income with others. Also we don’t ask how much others make or have. This just creates jealous feelings or arguments. Life is short, so we are living ours the way we want and love being on TUG to share vacation stories. Hope this doesn’t sound snotty?
Silentg


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## moonstone (Jun 22, 2018)

We are not wealthy monetarily but in many other ways. We both collect company pensions (mine is very small due to only returning to full time work 15 yrs ago) and are living on them until we turn 65 and then will also collect CPP (Canada Pension) and OAS (Old Age Security) which will more than double our income.

We are wealthy by having a 3 great and very successful children (youngest is 30 today!), 4 wonderful grandchildren, an extended loving family on both sides, a large home in the country that was paid off in 1999, a condo in Florida (that is rented to slightly more than cover costs), a travel trailer and our timeshares.

Many of our friends and family think we are wealthy since we spend 3 winter months in Belize and 4-6 weeks in timeshares in addition to some camping trips every year. We live a frugal life and plan our spending wisely (to us).


~Diane


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## pedro47 (Jun 22, 2018)

We are not wealthy. We are just Bless.


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## VacationForever (Jun 22, 2018)

Steve Fatula said:


> Wow, according to PEW, I suspect more people here are upper class than they think! Assuming you agree with their methodology (upper class = more than double the median).
> 
> https://www.cnbc.com/2018/03/20/how-much-you-have-to-earn-to-be-upper-class.html
> 
> Still, where you live should be a factor. The article states that people making $250k don't feel wealthy. Hah! Living here, you'd be well beyond wealthy! Probably in the 99th percentile. If you don't call 99th percentile wealthy, I don't know what is. I couldn't possibly spend that much. Yes, I know it's possible. But I couldn't.


I can help you spend it!


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## Steve Fatula (Jun 22, 2018)

VacationForever said:


> I can help you spend it!



Sharing is caring!


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## Linda74 (Jun 22, 2018)

My dear, late husband told my daughter, it isn’t how much you make, it is how much you spend!   We had two children and our dream was to put both kids through college, pay off the house and travel.  We were savers with teacher’s salaries.  We lived in a modest house, never drove fancy cars and saved and invested.  Cancer Cut short the retirement we’d planned.  With savings and investments , my pension, (no social security), inheritance from my frugal mom, and practical ways, I find the money to travel and put generous amounts into 529 plans for my four grandchildren.   I have many friends who made fabulous salaries and lived really large who are not able to retire because of limited savings.   And that daughter of ours, who loves to spend, makes a ton of money but is sure to save as her father taught her!


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## pedro47 (Jun 22, 2018)

Silentg, you words are golden thanks you.


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## Steve Fatula (Jun 22, 2018)

silentg said:


> We never discuss religion, politics, or our income with others. Also we don’t ask how much others make or have. This just creates jealous feelings or arguments. Life is short, so we are living ours the way we want and love being on TUG to share vacation stories. Hope this doesn’t sound snotty?
> Silentg



Nothing snotty about it. For the most part, we do the same. However, you can't control someone else's emotions. If someone wants to get jealous, that's their issue. Within family, we discuss all of the above and no one gets angry or jealous. But for the most part, it's a sound policy. But if someone wants to engage me, always glad to oblige. I think the lesson here is more about spending, it's been a decent thread with some nuggets.


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## rapmarks (Jun 22, 2018)

My grandson thinks we are poor because we won't give them dollars to put in arcade machines.   We have always been thrifty.  Have lots of savings and excellent pensions. We could afford to travel, but our health is stopping us.


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## Elan (Jun 22, 2018)

One thing to remember is that retirement isn't the end-all for everyone.  I have numerous friends/colleagues who COULD easily retire and choose not to.  In that regard, I'm not sure retirement status or age is a good metric for "wealthy". 

  Along those lines, I never consider whether one travels the world, drives a new Ferrari or bets at the track every day an indicator of much, other than personal preference of how they spend money.  They could be filthy rich, or they could be dirt poor.  As long as they're doing what suits them, I'm good with it.


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## Wyominguy (Jun 22, 2018)

We are not really wealthy but are blessed that our three children (and families) are on their own and successful. No home loan, no car loan, no loan of any kind, no RV, etc. I did inherit some $ from my folks but we only utilize the income from those investments, not the principle since we hope to pass that on to our kids. 

We bought two of our cars used with low mileage and we have a boat that was purchased used 24 years ago. We saved some in the ten years before retirement and are lucky to have a couple of pensions and SS. I am sure some folks who see our travels think we are wealthy but those that have traveled with us know we are just frugal.

Neil


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## rickandcindy23 (Jun 22, 2018)

Being frugal is an ideal way to live.  I have been getting rid of stuff in vast quantities, since I am never going to use, need, or wear these items anytime in the future.  I don't go shopping anymore, except for groceries, and usually just exactly what we need for a few days of cooking.  

I do wish I had fewer timeshares, however.  It's getting stressful, having this many weeks.


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## VacationForever (Jun 22, 2018)

silentg said:


> We never discuss religion, politics, or our income with others. Also we don’t ask how much others make or have. This just creates jealous feelings or arguments. Life is short, so we are living ours the way we want and love being on TUG to share vacation stories. Hope this doesn’t sound snotty?
> Silentg


Wise words.  

I remember having a conversation over dinner some 18 years ago, about how it would be nice if we had a larger backyard and we could put in a pool.  My 14 yo son immediately said "But you have no money to build a pool even if we have a larger backyard."  This was a kid who was attending the most expensive and best private K to 12 college prep school in our locale.  We lived in a modest home when compared to his classmates' large homes and mansions.  I asked him why he said that... and he said "You are always broke."  That was when we had a lesson about needs vs. wants.  There are many things one may want but do not need.  Income is finite and do not use it to measure one's against another's.  One may be financially poor and rich in other aspects and still be happier than a financially weathy person.  I told him I might have said we were broke because we had more wants than we could afford but that did not mean that we were poor.


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## DaveNV (Jun 22, 2018)

I am not what I would consider financially wealthy, (in a Wall Street/Suze Orman/Daddy Warbucks kind of way), but I am the most successful member of my family.  I have worked long and hard for everything I have, and I've built a life and lifestyle that I think of as "comfortable."  That means if I want to do something, I can do it.  My personal measure of success is that I have enough in my life that I am not struggling, and I am able to help others who may need a hand.  At the end of the day, if you don't feel comfortable with your life, I don't think it matters how much money you have.

Dave


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## bluehende (Jun 22, 2018)

Steve Fatula said:


> But my income is 0. A better measure for older or soon to be retired or retired folks is net worth. Net worth by age would be nice. So, it's there also:
> 
> https://dqydj.com/net-worth-by-age-calculator-united-states/
> 
> ...



You posted the one that I actually meant to post.  I grabbed the wrong one.  My income is close to yours.  A small pension keeps it off zero.  

Yes cheap was the word.  It was usually when i didn't want the best of something and it was ok with me to be in the middle.

I bought my parents old house when they moved to the beach.  A year later I hated being a landlord and sold it.  The profit was 50%.  This allowed us to pay off our 9 3/8 mortgage.  That rate dates me.  We never saw the need to move so spent a lot of years with no mortgage.


----------



## bbodb1 (Jun 22, 2018)

silentg said:


> We never discuss religion, politics, or our income with others. Also we don’t ask how much others make or have. This just creates jealous feelings or arguments. Life is short, so we are living ours the way we want and love being on TUG to share vacation stories. Hope this doesn’t sound snotty?
> Silentg



I hear you SilentG but a conversation I would love to have (with willing parties of course) is about religion.  Not any attempt to convert anyone to a particular point of view, rather a discussion of the process of religion.
Obviously, that is not a topic for around here but something I do miss from days gone by is a good honest and open conversation on a topic of importance.  I'm afraid the days of civil discourse on complex issues is long gone.


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## Marathoner (Jun 22, 2018)

Everyone should read Millionaire Next Door - it's an entertaining read. This book is a compilation of research done by two professors in the profiles of millionaires. Long story short, people who look like they have money are spending it. People who appear frugal may very well have saved a large amount. 

Sent from my LG-H932 using Tapatalk


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## Beachclubmum (Jun 22, 2018)

No debt....mortgage was paid off last year. 4 kids will or have already graduated from college fully paid for.  Each has a nest egg thanks to grandparents. We make good use of the rule of 72!


ETA: I bought my first share of stock in 6th grade (saved up babysitting money) and have been investing ever since.  Tried to talk my DH (then just a boyfriend in college) into taking $5k he was putting into a new car and purchasing a certain stock with it instead.  He didn't listen.  Over the years we've joked about the million dollar mistake he made, as those shares are now worth that and more.

We also drive old, paid for cars. My favorite is the 1999 Toyota approaching 300,000 miles.


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## bluehende (Jun 22, 2018)

silentg said:


> We never discuss religion, politics, or our income with others. Also we don’t ask how much others make or have. This just creates jealous feelings or arguments. Life is short, so we are living ours the way we want and love being on TUG to share vacation stories. Hope this doesn’t sound snotty?
> Silentg




Very sage advice.  Somehow I feel more open here than I do with my family (other than immediate).  I think that is because few of us will meet and we are pretty anonymous.  I pretty much wear my heart on my sleeve and have no problem being an open book.  On the other hand I would not think of asking others for information I have no problem giving out.


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## Panina (Jun 22, 2018)

Marathoner said:


> Everyone should read Millionaire Next Door - it's an entertaining read. This book is a compilation of research done by two professors in the profiles of millionaires. Long story short, people who look like they have money are spending it. People who appear frugal may very well have saved a large amount.
> 
> Sent from my LG-H932 using Tapatalk



So true.  I was a sales manager for a luxury builder.  Many of the people that came in with the fancy cars, clothes and jewelry couldn’t qualify for a mortgage.  The most affluent didn’t show it.

I had a customer who came in a run down looking car, over 20 years old with torn seats and peeling paint.  I spent a few hours with him.  When I told my boss he will buy from us one day he thought I was crazy and said at best he was a secret shopper. 

For months I had to be teased as this person didn’t return or answer my calls.  Eight months later he walked in, said he didn’t return my calls because he wasn’t ready, but now he is and he purchased a home.  He ultimately was a very wealthy man. When he moved in he purchased a new car.  He kept offering to do things for me, but I had no interest as I had recenty lost my husband.


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## VanX (Jun 22, 2018)

“Comparison is the thief of joy”


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## Icc5 (Jun 22, 2018)

I've been retired now for a little over 5 years but going back 30 years ago all the other grocery clerks we worked with thought we were rich because of the vacations we took.  Back then we took 3-4 weeks a year that we were able to enjoy with our kids in the 4 timeshares we own.  Nothing much has changed except are house (3rd) one we've lived in is paid off and has been for about 20 years.
We live off our pensions, my social security, and the dividends and interest from investments.  We drive a 13 and 19 year old cars that have low mileage and run great (always have regular service done on them.
We have been on about 15 cruises and brought ore kids on a couple.  Brought the kids with us to Hawaii about 7-8 times each.  We owe nothing and health seems fine for both of us.
Yes, I feel we are wealthy even though the most I ever made was $42,000 and about $40,000 for my wife and have lived and still do in Silicon Valley in California our entire lives.  We live just a short distance from where Apple Headquaters is and where millionaires are made daily.  I think we still are probably better off then 90% of them.
Bart


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## TravelTime (Jun 22, 2018)

Steve Fatula said:


> But my income is 0. A better measure for older or soon to be retired or retired folks is net worth. Net worth by age would be nice. So, it's there also:
> 
> https://dqydj.com/net-worth-by-age-calculator-united-states/
> 
> ...



The only problem with these USA calculators is they do not take into account where you live. A person in the top 10% almost anywhere in the country would be poor in high cost cities.


----------



## TravelTime (Jun 22, 2018)

Steve Fatula said:


> Totally agree with your car strategy. New cars are almost as bad as a timeshare purchase from a developer. The second you drive it away, it's worth a lot less. And it quickly depreciates to close (relative to the cost) to $0. The younger folks who renew their car every 3-4 years cost themselves a ton of savings! They would have a fortune at retirement just changing that one behavior. But, they also see others doing the same, etc.



I love new cars but we are done with BMWs and will no longer consider European cars due to high maintenance costs. We no longer care about class status based on what car we drive. We prefer to have a reliable, low maintenance car obtained at a reasonable value.


----------



## bluehende (Jun 22, 2018)

Panina said:


> So true.  I was a sales manager for a luxury builder.  Many of the people that came in with the fancy cars, clothes and jewelry couldn’t qualify for a mortgage.  The most affluent didn’t show it.
> 
> I had a customer who came in a run down looking car, over 20 years old with torn seats and peeling paint.  I spent a few hours with him.  When I told my boss he will buy from us one day he thought I was crazy and said at best he was a secret shopper.
> 
> For months I had to be teased as this person didn’t return or answer my calls.  Eight months later he walked in, said he didn’t return my calls because he wasn’t ready, but now he is and he purchased a home.  He ultimately was a very wealthy man. When he moved in he purchased a new car.  He kept offering to do things for me, but I had no interest as I had recenty lost my husband.



I have a good story on this exact thing.  When I go car shopping I dress down from my normal.  This probably puts me in homeless territory.  It usually speeds negotiation as they think they can not play as many games.  I was in one dealership and the salesman was very condescending....maybe the cheaper vehicle is more to your liking.....etc.  It started to get old.  We sat down to discuss price and the genius asked  "and how are you going to pay for this car" in a very singsong annoying voice.  My reply.  You will put the keys here....pointing to his desk......I will put a check here.....next to it.......And you will take one.


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## VacationForever (Jun 22, 2018)

bluehende said:


> I have a good story on this exact thing.  When I go car shopping I dress down from my normal.  This probably puts me in homeless territory.  It usually speeds negotiation as they think they can not play as many games.  I was in one dealership and the salesman was very condescending....maybe the cheaper vehicle is more to your liking.....etc.  It started to get old.  We sat down to discuss price and the genius asked  "and how are you going to pay for this car" in a very singsong annoying voice.  My reply.  You will put the keys here....pointing to his desk......I will put a check here.....next to it.......And you will take one.


Haha... great story.

That would be me too.  I don't need to dress down for car shopping... I am dressed down everyday.  I have ridiculous amount of clothes, from being a shopaholic, but I wear my freebie t-shirts and simple shorts or $15 pants most of the time.  Even when we have a formal dinner, it is still a simple $10-$15 long sleeve top and $15 pants for me.  I have lots of high value jewelries, mainly acquired as gifts, but I don't wear them other than a wedding ring.  We are those people whom sales folks think that they are wasting their time on us when we walk in to buy a car or a house, with cash.


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## MOXJO7282 (Jun 22, 2018)

I am extremely rich because;

I have a wonderful wife that I cherish.
My kids are happy and healthy.
I have a great set of friends
I have a good job that pays me well enough to take care of my family.
I enjoy working out.
We're able to take nice vacations that brings our family closer together.
We live in a nice home.
We have a good nest egg.

This is a note I wrote to myself and keep tacked up on my wall near my work desk. I read it often when the BS of work or life starts to get to me. I just read it and it brings me a sense of calm.


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## CalGalTraveler (Jun 22, 2018)

It is scary to think how many Americans are living on the edge with such a low median on these calculators!

There should also be a calculator to compare by location. I know of seniors in Palo Alto, CA living in million dollar homes (purchased many years ago) that are in desperate need of renovation and are just scraping by due to the high cost of living.


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## CalGalTraveler (Jun 22, 2018)

These have been and continue to be the best investments/ROI for us:

1) Family vacation time - dedicated time together away from the daily rush and influence of outside friends/activities.
2) Buying a home - this will pad our nest egg when we downsize and sell someday.
3) College education for our kids - Given the high cost of education, and rising health and cost of living, a debt free education may ultimately be their inheritance.


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## Panina (Jun 22, 2018)

CalGalTraveler said:


> It is scary to think how many Americans are living on the edge with such a low median on these calculators!
> 
> There should also be a calculator to compare by location. I know of seniors in Palo Alto, CA living in million dollar homes that are in desperate need of renovation and are just scraping by due to the high cost of living.



So many of my friends have hit hard times.  Some because of bad spending habits others with life just happening, no fault of their own.  One of my childhood friends who has worked hard her life helping others hit hard times just this week and is so stressed over being short a few hundred dollars because to have a late payment has never happened to her.  My heart goes out to and I offered to help.  I hope she isn’t too proud.


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## WinniWoman (Jun 22, 2018)

TravelTime said:


> I love new cars but we are done with BMWs and will no longer consider European cars due to high maintenance costs. We no longer care about class status based on what car we drive. We prefer to have a reliable, low maintenance car obtained at a reasonable value.



My brother got rid of his BMW 5 years ago because the repairs were too expensive/ he then bought a Chevy Equinox. Now he is trading it in for a BMW SUV- but this time leasing it so he doesn't have to deal with repairs.

The funny thing is his Chevy Equinox only had 33, 000 miles on it and is only 5 years old! he thinks he "needs" a new car- that the car is "already" 5 years old. LOL! Nice to be rich! (and he is)


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## WinniWoman (Jun 22, 2018)

So much requires maintenance and repair today as well. We were supposed to be on a self-imposed money diet from January to June this year because we just came out of 5 years of fixing up our house.

Then these things happened:
Our CRV needed front and rear brakes
The fireplace chimney needed repair
The wood stove chimney needed cleaning
We needed a tree cut because of a tornado
Pipes froze in our boiler room and we needed plumbers out on a Sunday
Our generator needed service and a new battery
Our 700 ft driveway has to be sealed
Our security system needed service/repair
We had to buy a new lawn mower
We had to buy a new snow blower
We had to, for the first time, get a large salt/sand truck to do our driveway one bad winter morning (that is in addition to our standard plow guy)

All we have been doing is writing checks.

TOTAL? Over $6000.00!!!

Social Security isn't going to cut it!

I'm going on vacation!


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## clifffaith (Jun 22, 2018)

We have never understood the urge to constantly have a new car. We do buy ours new rather than used, but usually at about the 17 year point when they start becoming a PITA with maintenance. I'm sure we'd still be driving our 2000 Chevy Venture if we'd figured out in time that it wasn't starting because the mechanic needed to resync the key. I hate the new Ford Escape because it just doesn't fit my range of motion well. PT Cruiser is also from 2000 and seems to just be plugging along nicely. We always chuckled to ourselves that Cliff's depression warped mother was well beyond frugal, yet she had to have a new car every three years.

Our business has put us in some very high end homes on sales calls. We occasionally have had closet envy, and certainly ocean view envy (although when we lived in a home with a 180 degree water view from 1999 - 2002 we quickly realized that more often then not we were simply going about our daily lives and many days didn't give the view the appreciation it deserved). But basically we have never wanted what we can not afford. And as I get older I certainly can relate to the old adage "if you have your health, you have everything". Cliff laughs that he married a "young chick" (I was 29 he was 47 when we married) to take care of him in old age, and now 33 years later he's the one pushing me in the wheel chair or helping hobble along with a cane. And yesterday I woke up thinking I had a detached retina, only to find out it hadn't progressed that far yet but I did have a posterior vitreous detachment which most often is caused by aging. It's always something!


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## VacationForever (Jun 22, 2018)

mpumilia said:


> So much requires maintenance and repair today as well. We were supposed to be on a self=imposed money diet from January to June this year because we just came out of 5 years of fixing up our house.
> 
> Then these things happened:
> The fireplace chimney needed repair
> ...



We live in a single story condo with million dollar views, which does not require this type of maintenance.  The only maintenance that we require twice a year is having the HVAC guy come out to clean out the water pump intake/output valves (more like a screen) and change our HVAC filters, something like $180 for the 2 visits a year.  The other thing that we will need replacement over the next 12 to 24 months is the water heater, which we see it as once in 10 years item.


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## WinniWoman (Jun 22, 2018)

VacationForever said:


> We live in a single story condo with million dollar views, which does not require this type of maintenance.  The only maintenance that we require twice a year is having the HVAC guy come out to clean out the water pump intake/output valves (more like a screen) and change our HVAC filters, something like $180 for the 2 visits a year.  The other thing that we will need replacement over the next 12 to 24 months is the water heater, which we see it as once in 10 years item.



Did I mention we thought we needed the AC serviced but the guy said our AC unit is 10 years old so just call if we have a problem with it? Keeping our fingers crossed.

To think we still have to spend this money when we intend to sell in a few years is aggravating. But- who knows if we will be able to sell anyway and we do have to keep the place up. UGH!


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## Panina (Jun 22, 2018)

clifffaith said:


> We have never understood the urge to constantly have a new car. We do buy ours new rather than used, but usually at about the 17 year point when they start becoming a PITA with maintenance. I'm sure we'd still be driving our 2000 Chevy Venture if we'd figured out in time that it wasn't starting because the mechanic needed to resync the key. I hate the new Ford Escape because it just doesn't fit my range of motion well. PT Cruiser is also from 2000 and seems to just be plugging along nicely. We always chuckled to ourselves that Cliff's depression warped mother was well beyond frugal, yet she had to have a new car every three years.
> 
> Our business has put us in some very high end homes on sales calls. We occasionally have had closet envy, and certainly ocean view envy (although when we lived in a home with a 180 degree water view from 1999 - 2002 we quickly realized that more often then not we were simply going about our daily lives and many days didn't give the view the appreciation it deserved). But basically we have never wanted what we can not afford. And as I get older I certainly can relate to the old adage "if you have your health, you have everything". Cliff laughs that he married a "young chick" (I was 29 he was 47 when we married) to take care of him in old age, and now 33 years later he's the one pushing me in the wheel chair or helping hobble along with a cane. And yesterday I woke up thinking I had a detached retina, only to find out it hadn't progressed that far yet but I did have a posterior vitreous detachment which most often is caused by aging. It's always something!



How scary.  Wishing you a speedy eye recovery.

I’ve had a posterior vitreous detachment in both my eyes in the last few years.  One eye was rare as a vein was attached to the vitreous and retina. I was told it  happens 1 in a couple of hundred thousand. After the vitreous detached it was a tug of war in one eye, bleeders every few weeks.  Also needed laser for a hole it caused but lucky no retina detachment.  Years later an occasional small bleeder, as the doctor says because the vein is still attached but not as stiff.  It could be ok but risk still exists.

With normal vitreous detachments I was told it can take 2 full years.  I assume you had a bleeder because you said you thought you had a detached retina.  For most people they don’t even know it is happened. They might get a few flashes and/or a few floators.  Others, like me, get many floaters, it was like spiders invading my eyes. Then a white haze where I couldn’t see out of it for a few weeks.  The floaters diminished but many I still have. If I don’t think about it is isn’t as noticeable , my brain takes over and ignores them.  If I think about them I see them.


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## VacationForever (Jun 22, 2018)

clifffaith said:


> We have never understood the urge to constantly have a new car. We do buy ours new rather than used, but usually at about the 17 year point when they start becoming a PITA with maintenance. I'm sure we'd still be driving our 2000 Chevy Venture if we'd figured out in time that it wasn't starting because the mechanic needed to resync the key.



It depends on whether you see a car as utility and a means of transport or you see it as a piece of art/beauty, how it drives and a technological marvel with new gadgets and features in new releases. If car is a utility then you drive it for as long as it works and then junk it, which could be 10, 15 or even 20 years.  For some of us, we like the new technology that comes with new cars.  We have Eyesight, i.e. adaptive cruise control, lane change warnings, blind spot detection, braking automatically to avoid collisions for both forward and reverse, backup cameras, NAV etc etc.  Each new car release comes with newer and better autopilot features.


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## billymach4 (Jun 22, 2018)

Ain't telling cuz it's none of your business. Just remember people this is the internet and everybody's watching


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## VacationForever (Jun 22, 2018)

Panina said:


> I’ve had a posterior vitreous detachment in both my eyes in the last few years.  One eye was rare as a vein was attached to the vitreous and retina. I was told it  happens 1 in a couple of hundred thousand. After the vitreous detached it was a tug of war in one eye, bleeders every few weeks.  Also needed laser for a hole it caused but lucky no retina detachment.  Years later an occasional small bleeder, as the doctor says because the vein is still attached but not as stiff.  It could be ok but risk still exists.
> 
> With normal vitreous detachments I was told it can take 2 full years.  I assume you had a bleeder because you said you thought you had a detached retina.  For most people they don’t even know it is happened. They might get a few flashes and/or a few floators.  Others, like me, get many floaters, it was like spiders invading my eyes. Then a white haze where I couldn’t see out of it for a few weeks.  The floaters diminished but many I still have. If I don’t think about it is isn’t as noticeable , my brain takes over and ignores them.  If I think about them I see them.



That must be one scary period of time for you.

Mine was "normal" took something like 3 years to detach in one eye.  2 days before we flew to Cancun was when I saw white flashes.  Finally, the night before our 6am flight, I went to the ER and the doctor saw nothing and I was discharged at 3am.  When I came back and saw a retinal specialist and he said it was posterior vitreous detachment and normal with aging.  He said it could take weeks or up to a couple of years.  That eye finally stopped seeing flashes after 3 years so I assume the detachment was complete.


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## bogey21 (Jun 22, 2018)

Steve Fatula said:


> But my income is 0. A better measure for older or soon to be retired or retired folks is net worth.



It is funny how two people can look at the issue in exactly opposite ways.  I'm 83 years old and retired.  Net Worth means absolutely nothing to me.  In fact when I retired 18 years ago I gave everything I owned to my kids and ex-wife.  Essentially I have zero Net Worth.   But I live a comfortable life because I have a nice pension and Social Security.  Thus my focus is on income not Net Worth.

George


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## Panina (Jun 22, 2018)

billymach4 said:


> Ain't telling cuz it's none of your business. Just remember people this is the internet and everybody's watching


You don’t have to be on the internet for them to know everything about you.


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## bluehende (Jun 22, 2018)

It seems that this group is probably a pretty high wealth/income group.  It is not a surprise to me.  Tuggers have learned to use timeshares to their fullest while the vast majority of timeshare owners have a money pit.  If you are smart enough to pull that feat off keeping your financial ducks in a row is a cake walk.


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## dsmrp (Jun 22, 2018)

I am way better off financially now than I ever thought I'd be in my 20s! 
And it's certainly not because I strategically planned it that way LOL.  We just made a couple of very good personal decisions,
and lucky to have only been laid off once and only for 3 months. Lucky also to have had no major illnesses or surgeries.

It's been none to very small increases for me, salary wise, for many years and then  bigger bump ups in the last 10 years. DH and I both changed careers (after several more years of school, which we paid for) and that enhanced our income.
We're not rich by any means, but do think we can retire in a few more years. Or if I got laid off tomorrow, I wouldn't be scared.
Funny but my millennial daughter thinks "we make bank".  She doesn't think she'll ever be able to earn as much as we do,
or be able to buy a house. We tell her to save and she tries but some of the things she thinks she 'needs' are more discretionary IMO.


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## billymach4 (Jun 22, 2018)

Maybe because I have Cyber Security certifications there is a bit of privacy in my internet usage. I would venture to say that one can lock down Facebook better than posts here on Tug. Whatever you say on TUG is wide open to the world. At least on Facebook they now provide you with tools to secure yourself. Not suggesting that TUG has to follow. I am amazed at how much personal info people everywhere on the internet reveal about their personal lives. Then we wonder why we get hacked. By revealing your personal wealth or lack thereof you make yourself a rich target for someone in Nigeria, Romania, Russia, China..... Just sayin


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## PigsDad (Jun 22, 2018)

Panina said:


> Give me $20 and I will spend it getting much more then the average person.


Give *me* $20 and I'll save it, not spend it! 

Kurt


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## VacationForever (Jun 22, 2018)

billymach4 said:


> Maybe because I have Cyber Security certifications there is a bit of privacy in my internet usage. I would venture to say that one can lock down Facebook better than posts here on Tug. Whatever you say on TUG is wide open to the world. At least on Facebook they now provide you with tools to secure yourself. Not suggesting that TUG has to follow. I am amazed at how much personal info people everywhere on the internet reveal about their personal lives. Then we wonder why we get hacked. By revealing your personal wealth or lack thereof you make yourself a rich target for someone in Nigeria, Romania, Russia, China..... Just sayin


I held CISSP certification for 15 years and I post here.  We are not rich and we usually not have more than a few dollars in our pocket or anything more than a couple of months of expenses in the bank.   We always have someone in our home even when we are travelling.  Having said that I do try not to reveal my true identity as much as possible in open forums like this.

Some of my fellow CISSP friends post alot more on FB that make me more uncomfortable than what I read here.


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## bbodb1 (Jun 22, 2018)

billymach4 said:


> Maybe because I have Cyber Security certifications there is a bit of privacy in my internet usage. *I would venture to say that one can lock down Facebook better than posts here on Tug. Whatever you say on TUG is wide open to the world. At least on Facebook they now provide you with tools to secure yourself*. Not suggesting that TUG has to follow. I am amazed at how much personal info people everywhere on the internet reveal about their personal lives. Then we wonder why we get hacked. By revealing your personal wealth or lack thereof you make yourself a rich target for someone in Nigeria, Romania, Russia, China..... Just sayin


Did I read this correctly?
Facebook?
Tools?
Security?

You cannot be serious.


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## bbodb1 (Jun 22, 2018)

Brian!! 
Do you moonlight for Cambridge Analytica?


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## Adventureisoutthere (Jun 22, 2018)

MOXJO7282 said:


> I am extremely rich because;
> 
> I have a wonderful wife that I cherish.
> My kids are happy and healthy.
> ...



Can we be friends?  Gotta surround yourself with good people and you sound like a great person . God Bless!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## billymach4 (Jun 22, 2018)

billymach4 said:


> Ain't telling cuz it's none of your business. Just remember people this is the internet and everybody's watching





bbodb1 said:


> Did I read this correctly?
> Facebook?
> Tools?
> Security?
> ...



Tell me how you can lock down your posts or profile on TUG. Not saying FB is innocent here with their recent issues. Yes they sell your info and pimp you out to advertisers. But there is no way to secure what you post here on TUG. At least FB is coming around. 

Again I am not saying TUG has to secure what we say. It's your personal responsibility to be vigilant in exposing your personal info on the internet at all times. However trivial it may seem.


----------



## clifffaith (Jun 22, 2018)

Panina said:


> How scary.  Wishing you a speedy eye recovery.
> 
> I’ve had a posterior vitreous detachment in both my eyes in the last few years.  One eye was rare as a vein was attached to the vitreous and retina. I was told it  happens 1 in a couple of hundred thousand. After the vitreous detached it was a tug of war in one eye, bleeders every few weeks.  Also needed laser for a hole it caused but lucky no retina detachment.  Years later an occasional small bleeder, as the doctor says because the vein is still attached but not as stiff.  It could be ok but risk still exists.
> 
> With normal vitreous detachments I was told it can take 2 full years.  I assume you had a bleeder because you said you thought you had a detached retina.  For most people they don’t even know it is happened. They might get a few flashes and/or a few floators.  Others, like me, get many floaters, it was like spiders invading my eyes. Then a white haze where I couldn’t see out of it for a few weeks.  The floaters diminished but many I still have. If I don’t think about it is isn’t as noticeable , my brain takes over and ignores them.  If I think about them I see them.



Thanks for sharing your experience. I have a floating circle (not unlike the blue circle of death on a computer) which is why I thought it was my retina. Doesn't bother me watching TV, but it is quite noticeable when reading. I'm hoping this doesn't become a protracted ordeal. Over a year later my mom is still dealing with the fallout from having gotten a fungus in her eye from gardening -- cornea transplant, cataract surgery, a second cataract surgery, a third cataract surgery looming when they figure out how to attach a new lens, and now surgery to put a tiny tube in her eye to relieve excessive pressure.


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## clifffaith (Jun 22, 2018)

VacationForever said:


> That must be one scary period of time for you.
> 
> Mine was "normal" took something like 3 years to detach in one eye.  2 days before we flew to Cancun was when I saw white flashes.  Finally, the night before our 6am flight, I went to the ER and the doctor saw nothing and I was discharged at 3am.  When I came back and saw a retinal specialist and he said it was posterior vitreous detachment and normal with aging.  He said it could take weeks or up to a couple of years.  That eye finally stopped seeing flashes after 3 years so I assume the detachment was complete.



That's interesting, I didn't realize total detachment was the "goal". Learning a whole bunch about something I didn't even know could happen.


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## VacationForever (Jun 22, 2018)

billymach4 said:


> Tell me how you can lock down your posts or profile on TUG. Not saying FB is innocent here with their recent issues. Yes they sell your info and pimp you out to advertisers. But there is no way to secure what you post here on TUG. At least FB is coming around.
> 
> Again I am not saying TUG has to secure what we say. It's your personal responsibility to be vigilant in exposing your personal info on the internet at all times. However trivial it may seem.


If you click on my profile here on TUG, you should not see any information.  I have locked down my profile several months ago.


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## jme (Jun 22, 2018)

artringwald said:


> If anyone asks me if they should buy a timeshare, I say no unless they're ready to commit to a lifetime of ever increasing maintenance fees.



I hear this remark all the time and feel compelled to address it, so again I'll disagree with the premise.

So if they take your advice (desiring to still take that yearly vacation) and decide to only pursue rack rate vacations,
do you then tell them that the rack rates will never increase similarly?   and that if they desire to avoid ANY
"commitment to rising costs", then their only other choice is to annually (and continually) scale down the quality
of the rack rate vacation so that the cost remains totally static?

I believe the best bang for the buck still exists within the timeshare system (via resales) DESPITE the rising maintenance fees
(granting that some fees experience "higher-than-needed" increases and need to be better controlled, but that doesn't negate my point).

As you know, after a few short years we only encounter the mf, which typically is about half the rack rate nowadays
in my experience, so we're still taking nice vacations in a 2BR condo for that lower fee, relatively speaking.

I am delighted to pay my mf's annually, because there's no way I could find anything comparable for THAT cost.
And yes, I've bought a few resales to keep a good thing going.

But I'll tell you flat out, I have ZERO friends who enjoy 2BR condos for what I pay in a maintenance fee alone
in my timeshare system, and they are very envious for the top-notch places we enjoy,
and the frequency, and the size of the accommodations.
Not to mention the MANY other perks we obtain by virtue of ownership, which add even more to the total experience,
which a rack-rate payer will NEVER enjoy.

(For a moment there, I mis-typed "palaces" for "places" ....obviously a Freudian slip.)

So yes we play in vacation "palaces" now for the cost of a maintenance fee, and I'm quite happy to do it.
When you can show me the rack rates for "similar" vacations have stopped increasing, I'll retract my post.
And even if that happens and they remain constant, which they won't, my "half" deal will still continue.


P.S.....Matter of fact, a friend of mine is JUST NOW THIS WEEK starting the process of owning his first timeshare on my advice.
He's getting the best deal I've ever heard of (which I found for him) for a fantastic resale week at Grande Ocean/Hilton Head
in Gold season (which includes the first two weeks of June).
I would have bought it if he hadn't, but he's thrilled, and so are his wife and family.

And another thing---I just looked it up.....
I'm at Grande Ocean right now for the third consecutive week. My cost is about $1400 in mf per week = $4200.  Looking at Redweek rentals the cost would be about $8400 (and that's far below the rack rate through Marriott as a non-owner, and about the same as a Chairman's level owner discount).
THERE'S NO WAY I'd pay that $8400 to stay here under any circumstances other than my timeshare ownership. And low and behold the rental prices have indeed gone up each year as I've witnessed.....but for me, THAT'S AWESOME!!!! 
As James Brown said so eloquently, "GET ON UP!" 
....and that's because I rented 3 of my weeks this year.


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## billymach4 (Jun 22, 2018)

Hey look at that. I don't hang round here much. Must have been an upgrade. Now if we could lock down our posts?


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## bluehende (Jun 22, 2018)

VacationForever said:


> If you click on my profile here on TUG, you should not see any information.  I have locked down my profile several months ago.



I put none in.  I am sure a dedicated hacker could find me, but then TUG is probably not the site of choice for hackers to get info.  I worry more about the info being stolen from mass hacks.  I try not to be stupid , but in today's society privacy is a thing of the past no matter how hard you try.


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## CO skier (Jun 23, 2018)

The PEW Research Center defines the "middle class" as "two-thirds to two times the national median income for your household size" which is currently $50,000 - $140,000 annually for a four person household.  That puts us solidly in the middle of the middle class.  (No mention of net worth, though, which might change the classification).

When I reserve a 3 or 4 Bedroom Presidential or Casita unit in Club Wyndham or WorldMark for our ski trips, we vacation like Rockafellas.  Priceless.


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## Carol C (Jun 23, 2018)

clifffaith said:


> Thanks for sharing your experience. I have a floating circle (not unlike the blue circle of death on a computer) which is why I thought it was my retina. Doesn't bother me watching TV, but it is quite noticeable when reading. I'm hoping this doesn't become a protracted ordeal. Over a year later my mom is still dealing with the fallout from having gotten a fungus in her eye from gardening -- cornea transplant, cataract surgery, a second cataract surgery, a third cataract surgery looming when they figure out how to attach a new lens, and now surgery to put a tiny tube in her eye to relieve excessive pressure.


'I had retinal detachments in both eyes and also cataract operations in both. Thats why I believe in science. Without lasers for example I would be walking around with a dog and a cane...and I wouldnt be able to care for my disabled husband. Glad some folks mentioned health...this can really affect your financial bottom line.


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## Carol C (Jun 23, 2018)

A few expense categories weren't mentioned...or maybe I missed em. To protect online info you don't even have to offer specifics...but I am interested in yes or no answers to a few questions. Here goes...do you ever  spend on...

Lottery tix

Charities

Political candidates

Religious or faith-based giving

Tipping (just had to sneak that one in again)

I'll go first...yes to all but lottery tix


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## billymach4 (Jun 23, 2018)

Sorry none of anyone's business .  
 

But I do play the lottery. HA!


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## bogey21 (Jun 23, 2018)

I only give to one charity, Union Gospel Mission Fort Worth.  Why?  Because I can walk in ask them questions and see what they do with my money.  I do this about twice a year.  IMO it beats sending money into a black hole. 

George


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## Passepartout (Jun 23, 2018)

No lottery.
No religious contributions.

But the Arts, homeless shelters, educational programs get a share. DW does pro-bono law. I support meals-on-wheels for shut in elderly or disabled.


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## zinger1457 (Jun 23, 2018)

jme said:


> And another thing---I just looked it up.....
> I'm at Grande Ocean right now for the third consecutive week. My cost is about $1400 in mf per week = $4200.  Looking at Redweek rentals the cost would be about $8400 (and that's far below the rack rate through Marriott as a non-owner, and about the same as a Chairman's level owner discount).
> THERE'S NO WAY I'd pay that $8400 to stay here under any circumstances other than my timeshare ownership.



One could also look at it another way and say why would I pay $1400/week in maintenance fees to stay at a place that I can purchase a getaway on II for <$600/week.


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## Janann (Jun 23, 2018)

bluehende said:


> We sat down to discuss price and the genius asked  "and how are you going to pay for this car" in a very singsong annoying voice.  My reply.  You will put the keys here....pointing to his desk......I will put a check here.....next to it.......And you will take one.



Ha -- this reminded me of what happened when we were (foolishly) paying full price for an HGVC unit.  Regarding how to pay, we offered to write a check on the spot, and the salesperson said she had never closed a deal with immediate payment in full.  She needed to get someone to help fill out the paperwork.


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## Quiet Pine (Jun 23, 2018)

Yes to all. About every 1-2 years I squander $1 on a lottery ticket. Years ago, when the lottery was new in California, my office pooled money and bought 109 tickets. All those tickets, and we didn't even win $5 for matching a couple of number. That curtailed my interest in lotteries.


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## Panina (Jun 23, 2018)

Lottery tickets maybe once or twice a year.  Always think about buying more but never do.

Charities yes, might overlap with religious. There is a small local church (not my faith) that runs a local food bank.  I use to bring bags of food but now at times write a check so they can get what they need.  I also donate here and there to others. When I visit larger cities you always see people with their cups.  I give the diabled and elderly money. 

I give religiously for prayers to be said for my deceased dad.

Politically no.


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## silentg (Jun 23, 2018)

We only do lottery occasionally. Scratch off tickets for stocking stuffers( although Santa forgot last Christmas) we give to some charities.


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## jme (Jun 23, 2018)

zinger1457 said:


> One could also look at it another way and say why would I pay $1400/week in maintenance fees to stay at a place that I can purchase a getaway on II for <$600/week.



There are ZERO getaways for Grande Ocean in summer, EVER........show me ONE.
And how many have you personally done?

Getaways are excess inventory, and high-end resorts in prime seasons are not available as Getaways. 
Marriott rents them outright for full price if they even have one.
Nor are there any other summer getaways at Hilton Head Marriotts, and you just again proved my point, THANKS

Bottom line, to specifically answer your question, "you'd do it" because
you MIGHT want the BEST vacation at a favorite destination FOR YOUR FAMILY.


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## stmartinfan (Jun 23, 2018)

No to lottery tickets and political candidates...but may need to support some candidates this year, given the potential impact.  Yes to the others.


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## DaveNV (Jun 23, 2018)

I randomly buy a lottery ticket, but rarely win anything.  So it's not high on my priority list.  I lived in Las Vegas long enough to understand that you can't win if you don't play, but you shouldn't throw money at a wild goose chase pipe dream you have less than minimal chance of winning.  Gambling for me falls into the category of "entertainment."

Charities I contribute to now are local, where I can see the direct result of their work.  I got turned off to blind contribution during my Navy years.  The military has a "Combined Federal Campaign" every year, where they guilt and harass servicemembers into contributing to a laundry list of charities through an automatic allotment deducted from their paychecks, as a one-stop shopping thing, so the top brass only has to do it once a year.  I found it inappropriate, and very telling that the disclosure documents listing how much of your contributed dollar went to overhead and administrative costs, (e.g. salaries), and how little went to the actual recipient the "charity" was supposed to be serving.  Nowadays I contribute material goods, and not money.  Food and clothing donations delivered to a local homeless shelter does more good than sending money to a national organization.

The exception is buying Girl Scout cookies - I donate a larger amount of money directly to help one particular girl scout I know, and she personally delivers dozens of boxes of cookies to a VA hospital in her town.  She gets the best response when she hands a patient in a bed a box of cookies. It's a way to give back a little, and bring a smile to someone who can probably use it.

I do not contribute to political candidates or religious organizations.  I don't see much difference between either one. Don't get me started.

I do tip, quite generously, based on the work the server/whoever has performed. I do not tip arbitrarily just because it's expected.

Thanks for asking.  

Dave


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## clifffaith (Jun 23, 2018)

Carol C said:


> 'I had retinal detachments in both eyes and also cataract operations in both. Thats why I believe in science. Without lasers for example I would be walking around with a dog and a cane...and I wouldnt be able to care for my disabled husband. Glad some folks mentioned health...this can really affect your financial bottom line.



Did you notice it is all females with the eye issues? In doing research it appears that older women are more likely than men to have a posterior vitreous detachment. As if the crepey skin and weakening bones weren't enough!


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## Passepartout (Jun 23, 2018)

clifffaith said:


> Did you notice it is all females with the eye issues? In doing research it appears that older women are more likely than men to have a posterior vitreous detachment. As if the crepey skin and weakening bones weren't enough!


Yeah, well just look around the senior living places the next time you visit one. You'll notice that the women outlive us guys by several years.


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## AwayWeGo (Jun 23, 2018)

I had posterior vitreous detachment, without complications.  Eye doctor said it would get better by itself after a while.  It did. 

Several years later, I had (successful) cataract surgery on both eyes (not at the same time -- operations were about 1 year apart).  

Now it turns out I am among the roughly 30% of cataract surgery lens implant recipients who experience darkening of the membrane surrounding the implanted lens, such that I am in line for some kind of laser procedure to correct the condition -- no doubt by zapping a hole in the membrane.  

Follow-up eye exam next month will show how advanced the membrane darkening has become.  It has not darkened enough so far for me to have noticed it.  I just take the eye doctor's word for it that it's happening, based on what he sees when he peers into my eyeballs via those specialized scopes with the intense blue lightbulbs.  

It's always something. 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


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## VacationForever (Jun 23, 2018)

AwayWeGo said:


> I had posterior vitreous detachment, without complications.  Eye doctor said it would get better by itself after a while.  It did.
> 
> Several years later, I had (successful) cataract surgery on both eyes (not at the same time -- operations were about 1 year apart).
> 
> ...


My husband had the same clouding in one eye some 18 years after his cataract surgery, must be part of the 30%, but it was a simple laser procedure with no follow-up needed.  Everything was well again after the laser procedure.


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## bluehende (Jun 23, 2018)

Panina said:


> Lottery tickets maybe once or twice a year.  Always think about buying more but never do.
> 
> Charities yes, might overlap with religious. There is a small local church (not my faith) that runs a local food bank.  I use to bring bags of food but now at times write a check so they can get what they need.  I also donate here and there to others. When I visit larger cities you always see people with their cups.  I give the diabled and elderly money.
> 
> ...



For us

Lottery never.

political campaigns small amounts occasionally.

Charity we give a lot to.  My wife is very active in our church.  She has a regular tithe and is very active in a few charitable activities including a food bank in the church.  I would guess 20% of our groceries actually go to what is needed at the food bank.  I would guess we give more to all the good work the church does than to the church itself.  It seems more important.  We give to outside charities too.  I am a softy when I see something needing help.  Of course being cheap we do research intensely where we donate.  One of those is the local boy scout troop.  I have been an adult leader for 20yrs (not so much lately).  Very important to give to the troop not the boy scouts.  As you can tell I am not a big fan of the BS overhead costs.


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## am1 (Jun 23, 2018)

No to lotteries.  I have 0 interest in winning and less in playing.  Wife buys a few.  0 to religion except maybe getting coaxed into a fundraiser dinner, paying fees or my sons giving money to the collection plate.  Oh and my percentage of the money governments give or do not collect in taxes.  

Very little to charities but a lot to people in need.  Be it old stuff, money, loan, ride, help or food. 

I have no issues with how others live as its their choice but do not like people being jealous as I have chosen differently.  If I was in other shoes I would do a lot of stuff differently.  It can hurt to see people making mistakes.  Buying a retail timeshare can be one, then asking about the deal and not taking the advice.


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## easyrider (Jun 26, 2018)

PigsDad said:


> Give *me* $20 and I'll save it, not spend it!
> 
> Kurt



Just give me $20. lol


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## easyrider (Jun 26, 2018)

mpumilia said:


> Did I mention we thought we needed the AC serviced but the guy said our AC unit is 10 years old so just call if we have a problem with it? Keeping our fingers crossed.
> 
> To think we still have to spend this money when we intend to sell in a few years is aggravating. But- who knows if we will be able to sell anyway and we do have to keep the place up. UGH!



I tested compressor terminal continuity and it appears that our 5 ton heat pump compressor shorted out. I think its about 16 years old. I called some hvac guys to replace the system. I already know what I want, but so far the hvac guys are telling me what they want to do before bidding what I want them to do. So far 2 of the 3 guys I called have made it over. Both know their trade. 

The 3rd guy called and left a message that some thing punctured his gas tank so he couldn't make the appointment. Its such an odd excuse that I might still accept his bid just to hear about it. No, probably not.

Bill


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## Jan M. (Jun 26, 2018)

mpumilia said:


> My brother got rid of his BMW 5 years ago because the repairs were too expensive/ he then bought a Chevy Equinox. Now he is trading it in for a BMW SUV- but this time leasing it so he doesn't have to deal with repairs.
> 
> The funny thing is his Chevy Equinox only had 33, 000 miles on it and is only 5 years old! he thinks he "needs" a new car- that the car is "already" 5 years old. LOL! Nice to be rich! (and he is)



What in the world ever possessed your brother to by a Chevy Equinox? I can't believe he kept it for 5 years after being used to better cars. My husband's last company car before he retired in February was a Chevy Equinox. We were pretty excited when we found out that was going to be his new company car but within a week of getting it we hated it. The visibility out of the rear side windows was horrible, it wasn't a quiet ride, we didn't like how it handled and it wasn't a particularly comfortable ride. My husband got a brand new company car about every other year for almost 40 years so we've had quite a variety of cars over the years. The Equinox ranked at the bottom of the list.


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## WinniWoman (Jun 26, 2018)

Jan M. said:


> What in the world ever possessed your brother to by a Chevy Equinox? I can't believe he kept it for 5 years after being used to better cars. My husband's last company car before he retired in February was a Chevy Equinox. We were pretty excited when we found out that was going to be his new company car but within a week of getting it we hated it. The visibility out of the rear side windows was horrible, it wasn't a quiet ride, we didn't like how it handled and it wasn't a particularly comfortable ride. My husband got a brand new company car about every other year for almost 40 years so we've had quite a variety of cars over the years. The Equinox ranked at the bottom of the list.




I don't know- it did have good reviews and his wife bought a Malibu at the same time (after having a used Mercedes), so maybe they got a good deal. He has never complained about it and to me it seemed like a nice car with a lot of features. He did say that it has what he considers to be a good trade in value ($11,000).

His wife now has a Subaru Outback.


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## Patri (Jun 26, 2018)

Carol C said:


> Here goes...do you ever  spend on...
> Lottery tix - rarely
> Charities - yes
> Political candidates - no
> ...



This has been a nice thread. I like the mantra that wealth is about how you spend the money you have.
It seems for many people getting a new car every four years is not a pattern. Well-maintained cars can look beautiful almost forever. Ours are a 2013 and a 2005. Thinking about my kids - one has a 1999, another just bought a 2005, also in the mix a 2007, and other older vehicles. They are all happy with their wheels. The exception is the primary car for DS and DIL who just had twins. They sprang for a late model van. But they intend to keep it for a long, long time.
I consider DH and myself to be frugal, as well. He was also very wise in our investing. I watched the expenses in our daily lives. So we are sitting well, though most people would not have a clue about our finances. Due to his stroke and permanent disability three years ago, I have now learned a lot about money, and am happy I have caught on to the nuances. 
And as noted by others, health plays a large role in determining how any of us spend the money we earned. DH can't travel, which I had hoped we could do together at this point in our lives. I go some with other people, but it would be more fun with DH.


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## joestein (Jun 26, 2018)

Speaking of Lottery Tickets, whenever I take cash out of the ATM at WAWA, I buy a $10 scratch off ticket.  I jokingly refer to it as my secondary retirement plan.   So far I have invested a couple hundred dollars with negative 100% return.  But hey, you never know.  

This all started due to us watching Lottery Dream Home on HGVC.  It made me decide to take a chance, after all its only $10 every other week or so.


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## bbodb1 (Jun 26, 2018)

joestein said:


> ...This all started due to us watching Lottery Dream Home on HGVC.  ...



If I recall correctly, I read somewhere that almost NO winner of that contest has been able to actually keep the awarded house due to tax implications. 

That is a problem I would like to have though....


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## geekette (Jun 26, 2018)

I am definitely not wealthy.  I keep on saving and pinching pennies.  Maybe I will make it to "wealthy" but it is not a goal.  I need only to ensure that I do not outlive my money but the biggest part of that is controlling spending vs chasing wealth.  I haven't made it to retirement yet and no way I'll be waiting until I'm wealthy.  I only need More Than Enough.

Timeshares have allowed me to vacation like I'm wealthy.


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## VacationForever (Jun 26, 2018)

It is nearly impossible to win a lottery if you don't buy.  I drop $20 into the lottery each time I make a visit to California, which amounts to maybe $200 a year.  Skipping a nice dinner at a steakhouse once a year pays for the fantasy.


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## am1 (Jun 26, 2018)

VacationForever said:


> It is nearly impossible to win a lottery if you don't buy.  I drop $20 into the lottery each time I make a visit to California, which amounts to maybe $200 a year.  Skipping a nice dinner at a steakhouse once a year pays for the fantasy.



Nearly impossible to win even if you do buy lottery tickets.


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## Passepartout (Jun 26, 2018)

VacationForever said:


> It is nearly impossible to win a lottery *if you don't buy.*





am1 said:


> Nearly impossible to win even *if you do buy* lottery tickets.



I think the odds of coming out a winner are just about exactly the same whether you buy or not.


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## VacationForever (Jun 26, 2018)

am1 said:


> Nearly impossible to win even if you do buy lottery tickets.


Of course.  That is why it is a fantasy.  In addition, I remind myself that a grand 2% of the ticket goes to Education, said tongue in cheek.


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## x3 skier (Jun 26, 2018)

After the Chinese stole my life history in the OPM breach and countless breaches of credit cards, data bases, store records and whatever, if the bad guys don’t know everything about me by now, posting on TUG isn’t going to make much of a difference.  I’ve got so many free monitoring services, I can’t count them. Nothing has happened yet.  

On the topic of wealthy or not, last week I went to one of those free financial planning dinners.  $100 steak dinner at one of my favorite steak houses to listen for a hour to things I already knew.  The follow up “review” the next week, again about an hour, resulted in a no sale since the advisor didn’t see much he would advise changing.  Nice to hear that I sort of know what I’m doing financially.  I call it applied common sense. 

Cheers


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## DaveNV (Jun 26, 2018)

x3 skier said:


> Nice to hear that I sort of know what I’m doing financially.  I call it applied common sense.
> 
> Cheers




You're also a really smart guy.  At least, you have me convinced. 

Dave


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## x3 skier (Jun 26, 2018)

DaveNW said:


> You're also a really smart guy.  At least, you have me convinced.
> 
> Dave



As A. Lincoln once said, 

“You can fool all the people some of the time, and some of the people all the time, but you cannot fool all the people all the time.”

Cheers


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## DaveNV (Jun 26, 2018)

x3 skier said:


> As A. Lincoln once said,
> 
> “You can fool all the people some of the time, and some of the people all the time, but you cannot fool all the people all the time.”
> 
> Cheers




And sometimes once is all you need. Ask any timeshare owner who believed the Developer...  

Dave


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## joestein (Jun 26, 2018)

bbodb1 said:


> If I recall correctly, I read somewhere that almost NO winner of that contest has been able to actually keep the awarded house due to tax implications.
> 
> That is a problem I would like to have though....



I think you are thinking about the Dream Home contest.  This show is about lottery winner buying house with their winnings.

Joe


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## Steve Fatula (Jun 26, 2018)

Carol C said:


> A few expense categories weren't mentioned...or maybe I missed em. To protect online info you don't even have to offer specifics...but I am interested in yes or no answers to a few questions. Here goes...do you ever  spend on...



Lottery - never
Charities - Many
Candidates - Never
Faith Based - Always
Tipping - Yes


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## Steve Fatula (Jun 26, 2018)

clifffaith said:


> Did you notice it is all females with the eye issues? In doing research it appears that older women are more likely than men to have a posterior vitreous detachment. As if the crepey skin and weakening bones weren't enough!



Averages never apply to me, lucky me. So, I get Pilomatrixomas. Who gets them? Women, and those under 20, neither is me. This is true of many rare or even beyond rare things I get, including some incredibly rare diseases. I must be special! Any medicine that has a rare side effect, I get it for the most part. 

So, the odds of someone getting so many rare things if it were truly random approaches 0 (one of mine is < 1 in a million). However, that I get a number of them, must mean somewhere somehow, there is an unknown something that connects them. No one knows what that something is!

Good thing I have decent insurance (sharing). Or, so much for any wealth.


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## WinniWoman (Jun 26, 2018)

Lottery tix - Rare- have done so when coworkers all went in on the biggies.
Charities - Yes. Many are on auto pilot every month. My husbands employer also matches what is taken from his check for the charities of our choice.
Political candidates - I did this once or twice in Presidential elections. But not a lot of money.
Religious or faith-based giving - No
Tipping - Yes


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## joestein (Jun 27, 2018)

Back to the topic at hand, I think wealthy is a term that can have a wide variety of meanings to many different people.     If I knew as a kid what our income looks like today, I would have though that I was rich.  However, I don't feel wealthy.  We live comfortably, save a decent chunk of our income and can handle any emergencies.  I can also help out others, such as giving my MIL cash each month to cover some expenses.   I guess it depends on your perspective.   You can certainly have wealth of friends, family, etc, but I don't think that is what the OP meant.

I think true definition of wealthy is when you have assets that earn you cash flow so that you do not have to work to depend on getting by.

Joe


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