# [2012] SCAM - Occidental Vacation Club



## Villager91

Hello everyone,

This is a general warning to anyone considering buying a timeshare (or Vacation Club as they call it) from Occidental Vacation Club - STAY AWAY. The whole thing is a scam that will not save you any money over simply booking vacations through any reputable internet travel site. All of the "promises" that are made by the salespeople will not be included in the contract and, as a result, you will probably get a nasty surprise the first time you try to book a week through the reservation line. My wife and I got suckered into buying an annual First Club studio unit at Occidental Allegro Cozumel (although we were in the sales office in Playacar) for about $20,000. This included 2 regular weeks (1 standard and 1 "developer" week) and 35 bonus time days each year. Obviously, in hindsight, we were stupid to buy into the lies and misrepresentations, and clearly overpaid for something that has almost no value. Even worse, we probably paid a lot more than other inflated developer prices paid by others for the same Studio. The fact that we signed up for something like this the same day as the tour was insane, but the sales guys are really good, the lies make you believe like you are actually going to save money (which is absolutely not true) and that there are tax benefits to donating weeks to the Make A Wish foundation (NOT TRUE - do a simple Google search for this one). Yes, you can donate weeks to send kids to Disney, but you can NOT take a tax deduction for it.  If you try, look forward to potentially expensive and time-consuming quality time with an IRS auditor. One other very important piece of advice - DO NOT ACCEPT ANY ALCOHOLIC DRINKS DURING THE TOUR OR SALES PRESENTATION.

Unfortunately, I spent time every day re-visiting the sales office to get things clarified and in writing, but I kept getting pushed off ("oh yeah, we'll get that to you" - NEVER HAPPENED. it was a daily delay tactic). When we got home, I made many calls to the reservation line, RCI, etc. to validate what we were told. The biggest discount claim - that owners get 35% of the published all-inclusive rates every year is FALSE - you only get this discount the first year and only if it is specifically written into your contract. J. Sean Stacy, the project director, will tell you things to your face but will never follow through. When you try to cancel, he will claim that you will owe ridiculous penalties for doing so (which goes directly against the language in the contract) YOU HAVE AN UNWAIVABLE, LEGAL RIGHT TO CANCEL WITHOUT PENALTY OR OBLIGATION. They will have you sign a "FINAL SALE" document to try to convince you that you cannot cancel - THIS IS A LIE and is ILLEGAL (they also don't include this page in your fancy leather binder when you leave). Don't get suckered into paying a penalty to cancel the contract if you are within the rescission period. Bob Behrens is a typical sales guy - tell you what you want to hear and expect you to trust him - BAD IDEA. Greta Sanchez (the "legal verificator") is probably just doing her job, but she will have to live with her own conscience for scamming people on a daily basis.

OVERALL - STAY AWAY FROM THE TIMESHARE PRESENTATION. It's not worth the time or aggravation. If you really like the club, think you will use it, and want to have less choice about how and when you travel, then buy OVC re-sale weeks for significantly less. Even better, buy something at one of the larger timeshare companies like Hilton, Disney, Wyndham, etc. (re-sale of course), and trade in to Mexico if you want.  Finding this forum was a life-saver over the last couple of weeks as I was trying to figure everything out.

We were fortunate that we sent our cancellation notice within the cancellation period. Now for the fight to get our full down payment returned. We have opened an investigation with our credit card company in case there are any issues getting the full refund and have been communicating regularly with PROFECO. PROFECO has been very helpful and I would recommend that anyone with questions or concerns contact them.


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## Passepartout

No secret that they and a whole lot of other Mexican TS outfits lie like rugs. Nothing they promise is in the contract. I feel certain that eventually you will get what they took from you, but it will be neither quick nor easy.

Best wishes and keep us informed as this progresses. We LOVE to hear success stories from people who rescind in time. Congratulations!

Jim Ricks


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## siesta

Welcome to the forum, sorry you didn't find us sooner, but glad you found us before its too late. Now do your homework and find an ownership that fits your style and budget, and buy resale!


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## Villager91

Thanks for the responses and words of encouragement.  I have been doing a lot of reading over the past week or so on the different timeshare companies.  Still have a lot to learn before I would even think of pulling the trigger on a different purchase via re-sale.  Despite this experience, we still are keeping an open mind to the whole concept, just not with Occidental or any other Mexico-based timeshare company.  First step is getting our down payment back.

I actually received a ridiculous e-mail with a letter attached confirming our cancellation and offering a "discount" on the penalty.  Entertaining stuff.  Per the contract, we have the right to cancel without penalty or obligation, why in the world would they think we are naive enough to sign something like that? (although, with that being said, we were obviously dumb enough to sign the original contract last week....)

When I responded that we would not be signing away our rights or agreeing to any ridiculous penalties, reduced or otherwise, Sean Stacy "rescinded" our cancellation and threatened sending the debt to collections, notifying credit bureaus, obtaining legal judgments to garnish wages and place liens on real property, etc.  What a load of crap.  I wonder if he really thinks people are that stupid.


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## pjrose

Villager91 said:


> Thanks for the responses and words of encouragement.  I have been doing a lot of reading over the past week or so on the different timeshare companies.  Still have a lot to learn before I would even think of pulling the trigger on a different purchase via re-sale.
> 
> . . . Sean Stacy "rescinded" our cancellation and threatened sending the debt to collections, notifying credit bureaus, obtaining legal judgments to garnish wages and place liens on real property, etc.  What a load of crap.  *I wonder if he really thinks people are that stupid.*



Yes, because many if not most with whom they deal are.  You obviously aren't, and it sounds like you're taking all the right steps and not letting them intimidate you.  Please do keep posting here, as this may help others dealing with the same issues!


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## aliikai2

*Keep after them*

As you have already witnessed , they are pros at the Stall tactic, so you will need to be persistent.  Also make mention of Profeco every now and then in your emails. Greg



Villager91 said:


> Thanks for the responses and words of encouragement.  I have been doing a lot of reading over the past week or so on the different timeshare companies.  Still have a lot to learn before I would even think of pulling the trigger on a different purchase via re-sale.  Despite this experience, we still are keeping an open mind to the whole concept, just not with Occidental or any other Mexico-based timeshare company.  First step is getting our down payment back.
> 
> I actually received a ridiculous e-mail with a letter attached confirming our cancellation and offering a "discount" on the penalty.  Entertaining stuff.  Per the contract, we have the right to cancel without penalty or obligation, why in the world would they think we are naive enough to sign something like that? (although, with that being said, we were obviously dumb enough to sign the original contract last week....)
> 
> When I responded that we would not be signing away our rights or agreeing to any ridiculous penalties, reduced or otherwise, Sean Stacy "rescinded" our cancellation and threatened sending the debt to collections, notifying credit bureaus, obtaining legal judgments to garnish wages and place liens on real property, etc.  What a load of crap.  I wonder if he really thinks people are that stupid.


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## Villager91

I plan on staying on top of them.  I have been copying the PROFECO email address on all of my email responses and have made clear that a formal complaint will be filed if the refund is not processed within the timeline specified within the contract.  

In the meantime, I faxed about 40 pages of documents to American Express, including copies of the contract, cancellation letter, proof of mailing of cancellation letters, receipt from the post office, copies of all emails, and a copy of the "discounted penalty" offer letter that I received from Greta Sanchez, the "legal verificator".  

Not sure what else I can do in the meantime, except for continue to post updates online and wait for Occidental to do the right thing, the credit card company to settle the dispute in my favor, or eventually file a formal complaint with PROFECO.  Given that Sean Stacy at Occidental alread stated via email that they won't cancel or refund our money, should I just go ahead with the formal complaint?


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## Villager91

Here is a copy of the latest letter (with personal info blacked out of course) that we received "confirming" cancellation (despite the "cancellation" of our cancellation last week by Sean Stacy). I am debating whether to upload images of all of the contract documents, etc. in case others would benefit from seeing all of the sordid details.  I am sure Occidental Vacation Club would love to see their full contract posted on the internet for all to see.  

Basically, in today's letter, they want to have us sign something that waives all present and/or future obligations (i.e., waive our right to the return of the closing costs and down payment).  It's really unbelievable.  The scam continues to the bitter end.  There is no way that we are signing this ridiculous letter.  It looks like the clock will run down and we will have to file a formal complaint with PROFECO.  In the meantime, American Express will take care of things.  We cancelled within the terms of the contract and within the 5 business days prescribed by Mexican law and we will get our money back.


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## ladytee

*Same situation*

Hi,
Unfortunately I find myself in the same situation.  I wish I had read your post before making a huge downpayment.
I would love to be able to communicate with you directly...


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## Karen G

ladytee said:


> Hi,
> Unfortunately I find myself in the same situation.  I wish I had read your post before making a huge downpayment.
> I would love to be able to communicate with you directly...



You can send an email to villager91 by clicking on the user name and then choosing email.


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## ladytee

*no response*

I tried to contact village 91. No response.
I was told many lies by represetatives of this company including the fact I could use their club to book my graduation celebration vacation in July at the leading hotels of the world.  I didn't even consider that these people could be out and out LIARS so stupidly I used my vacation money that I had been saving for years to buy into the vacation club that will not help me even one iota on my upcoming trip.
I really should have done my research. Does anyone know how I can get this contract cancelled without having to pay a kings ransom?

Interestingly, I looked up the rates to book a room at one of their hotels, The Royal Hideaway, in August.  It turns out that if anyone books the hotel for 8/5 thru 8/12 on their regular website they will pay $200/night per person.  If I use the Vacation club member ship then I first have to pay the $275 maintenance fee then the all inclusive fees are $230/night per person!!

So I would actually end up PAYING A LOT MORE as a vacation club member than if I booked it on their own website. sigh. TOTAL AND COMPLETE RIP OFF!

Does anyone know how I can get this contract cancelled without having to pay a kings ransom?

Their business practices are so unethical.  I am interested in filing a class action lawsuit.


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## Jose.GonzalezTS

*Commonly - unfortunately.*



ladytee said:


> I tried to contact village 91. No response.
> I was told many lies by represetatives of this company including the fact I could use their club to book my graduation celebration vacation in July at the leading hotels of the world.  I didn't even consider that these people could be out and out LIARS so stupidly I used my vacation money that I had been saving for years to buy into the vacation club that will not help me even one iota on my upcoming trip.
> I really should have done my research. Does anyone know how I can get this contract cancelled without having to pay a kings ransom?
> 
> Interestingly, I looked up the rates to book a room at one of their hotels, The Royal Hideaway, in August.  It turns out that if anyone books the hotel for 8/5 thru 8/12 on their regular website they will pay $200/night per person.  If I use the Vacation club member ship then I first have to pay the $275 maintenance fee then the all inclusive fees are $230/night per person!!
> 
> So I would actually end up PAYING A LOT MORE as a vacation club member than if I booked it on their own website. sigh. TOTAL AND COMPLETE RIP OFF!
> 
> Does anyone know how I can get this contract cancelled without having to pay a kings ransom?
> 
> Their business practices are so unethical.  I am interested in filing a class action lawsuit.



It is deceiving the situation you are going through now. It is important to know your rights as a consumer and if you cancelled within your first five business days you are entitled to receive a refund minus any gifts you were given (and used) for purchasing a timeshare such as all inclusive, a yacht ride, nights at their resort, etc. 

The customer service staff at a resort is determined to get you to keep the membership or, at least, keep your down payment. Be stubborn with them and go till the last consequences otherwise you will not receive your down payment back.


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## ladytee

*hindsight is 20/20*

Unfortunately, I am past the five days. Hopefully someone else will learn from my mistakes.  I did write a letter to Profeco.


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## Karen G

Jose.GonzalezTS said:


> It is important to know your rights as a consumer and if you cancelled within your first five business days you are entitled to receive a refund minus any gifts you were given (and used) for purchasing a timeshare such as all inclusive, a yacht ride, nights at their resort, etc.
> 
> .


I don't think that is correct. If one is offered "gifts" in exchange for his/her time to listen to a sales presentation, those "gifts" are just that--gifts. They have no connection with buying the timeshare. If he/she exercises his/her right of rescission within the specified rescission time period, a full refund must be given of any money paid on the contract. 

I realize ladytee  is beyond the rescission period and filing a complaint with Profeco is a good thing to do.


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## Villager91

Ladytee,

I just logged in again and responded to your PM.  Sorry for not updating this thread recently.

I am still waiting for some resolution from Amex.  Greta Sanchez contacted me again on 5/23 requesting that I sign the letter I copied above.  I responded that I would not be signing the letter, that I had already provided my signed cancellation within the deadlines and that they should immediately refund the full down payment.  So far, I have not received a refund.

I have held out hope that Occidental would do the right thing or that Amex will eventually resolve the situation in my favor.  Now I am debating whether to take the next step and file a formal complaint with PROFECO.  Does anyone know if there is a deadline to file a formal complaint with PROFECO?

Karen - Are the gifts you are referring to the incentives for attending the presentation, or incentives for signing the contract?  Are they treated differently?


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## Karen G

Villager91 said:


> Karen - Are the gifts you are referring to the incentives for attending the presentation, or incentives for signing the contract?  Are they treated differently?


I was thinking of the incentives for attending a pesentation.  I'm not sure about the others.


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## cnw31088

*Help!!*

I am in the same situation as you, I went to the Occidental Grand Excaret and my boyfriend and I got completely suckered into purchasing a "time share". We were shown a one bed room in the royal club and then offered a studio in the first club, so I guess we were still reeling from the Royal club one bedroom and were not thinking about what we were actually getting. You are absolutley right they make the whole thing sound like the best deal in the world and give you no time to do the math and realize that it is not. We signed up Saturday and it is Wednesday today so we are within the five day time frame. I am just worried that I may screw up again trying to get my refund and I really want it back now. What did you include in the cancellation letter and what else did you include with the letter? Also did you try to communicate in any other way? We tried to talk to them in person while we were there and they blew us off the whole time, go figure. Please help me, it sounds like you have the backbone and brains that we really need here!


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## Passepartout

The instructions and address for sending a rescission letter are in your packet, but probably not easy to find.

The letter needn't be anything fancy, just, "We____________and __________ wish to cancel contract #XXXXXXX-XXX effective  (today) as allowed by law. signed_________and __________."

It should be postmarked today. Usually the instructions say to use USPS. We recommend sending it Certified, with return receipt. 

Good Luck, and Welcome to TUG.

Jim Ricks


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## Villager91

Your five days does not include Saturday or Sunday, so you should be fine.  Still, try to send out certified letters cancelling the contract today if you can.  The earlier the better.

I sent a certified letter to the address in listed in the contract.  It was section 29 in my contract.  I also sent a certified letter to the sales office (I used the address from the legal person's business card).  The same day, I sent a scanned copy of the cancellation letter via e-mail to the sales office manager (Sean Stacy), the legal person (Greta Sanchez), and the two sales guys I dealt with (one of which was Bob Behrens).  I also copied PROFECO on the e-mail.

Just don't back down when they start badgering and threatening you.

I also immediately initiated a dispute with the credit card company.  Occidental Vacation Club so far has not complied with the 15 day refund of the down payment per the terms of their own contract.  I expect that the credit card company will resolve this very soon.  Don't trust that Occidental will just "do the right thing".  They won't - that much has already become very clear to me during this process.  It is a very shady business that is selling worthless memberships to lock people into staying at their resorts (or at least paying the annual maintenance fees).


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## Villager91

SUCCESS!!

Just wanted to report back that my chargeback was processed and I received back the full down payment plus the foreign transaction fee.  From beginning to end, it took almost 3 months.

Apparently, Occidental Vacation Club chose to ignore the cancellation terms of their own legal contract.  If anyone finds this thread after getting suckered into signing a contract, rescind within the 5 day period and don't give up.  Also, don't accept any other deals or sign anything waiving any legal rights.  Just send a cancellation notice, file a dispute with your credit card company and let the process take care of itself.  It worked for me.

Thanks everyone.  I am so glad I found this forum!


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## Karen G

Villager91 said:


> SUCCESS!!. . . .Thanks everyone.  I am so glad I found this forum!



Congratulations! So glad it worked for you. Thanks for letting us know.


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## rang1

I'm here at the Occidental Grand-Royal Club in Cozumel (Sky Auction was cheaper than RCI trade plus fees.)and talked to several people today about their upcoming timeshare presentations here. I just told them to make sure you get their promises in writing and told them about TUG. I think they were in that "I can't be talked into this" phase. I'll try to find out what happened.


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## MO MOS MOM

*Occidental*

Can anyone tell me how we can just "walk away" from this contract?  I don't care about recouping any of our money.

Thanks.


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## OVC

A letter from Mr. Luis Namnum, President of Occidental Vacation Club 

My name is Luis Namnum, I’m the president of the Occidental Vacation Club. I have read with dismay some of the comments made on the TUG site. What some of you describe is not the company I run.  I would like the opportunity to answer and/or solve some of the issues.

*1. Cancellation Within Five Days-* Is healthy for both the buyer and the seller to allow for a reasonable cooling off period. Mexican law calls for 5 days. We are obliged not only to accept your cancellation but to refund as fast as possible (minus significant gifts we gave the buyer as a gift for buying). Is really bad business to keep a member that is not happy with the purchase for whatever reason.

We will make some changes in the procedure to include an e-mail address directly to my headquarters so that my corporate team can handle the cancellation request in addition to the sales site.

Furthermore, If any of the writers in this blog have this sort of issue, please send me a note (you have my e-mail address in the welcome kit) with a copy of the letter or anything else you tried to send cancelling within the five days, and will take care of it. I really don’t care how much time has passed.

*2. Lies from the sales staff: *Our policy is that if, at any time after purchase, we find that the sale was made under false pretenses, we cancel at the owners request with full refund. Ours is a good product, we don’t and should not need to lie to sell it.  

We have in place mechanisms to cover all possible things a sales person can say on the sales table both with documents, training and supervision; but, given 'the face to face' nature of the sale, we are not able to cover all things. Nor, unfortunately, can we cover what the customer understood was being said.

The fact of the matter is that within a very short period of time whatever my staff promised is going to have to be delivered. If we cannot then the right and only thing to do is to refund and get rid of the staff member.

Our success depends on delivering on the product sold. We own most of the hotels, we are not going anywhere.

I urge any of the writers in this blog that felt that lies were used to sell you the membership, get in contact with me and lets solve this.

*3. How to Get Out:* We do not have a policy for this. We expect that members are going to honor the financial commitment they made in the promissory note. It is sometimes hard to explain that after the sale is processed the company has to incur in 100% of the cost related to the sale, costs that are much higher than the downpayment income. Like many other companies, we incur in these expenses based on the promise made by the customer to pay their bills.

But we also understand that things change and that what was affordable yesterday may not be today. Contact us with your individual case and we will work something out.

*4. Lowest Rate Guarantee:* Our members MUST pay a lower All Inclusive rate than anybody else using our hotels. Not only do we guarantee this, but our Rate Pledge states that if at any time a member finds a published rate lower than the one the booked with or used, we will not only match such a rate but will add on a 15% discount.

I probably have not answered all of the comments or have missed something, please write to me if I did and I will face it, take care of it or give you your money back.

Buying my product should not be a source of tension or unhappiness, and most important it should not make anyone feel that there is no recourse. Our club be a source of good stuff. If it's not, allow us to fix it, if we can’t, then it is fair to end the relationship with as few losses to each other as possible.

Luis Namnum
President
Occidental Vacation Club


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## Karen G

That would be great if the letter is legitimate.  I wonder if this guy on Facebook really is the president of the company.


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## OVC

Karen,

The letter is legitimate. Mr. Luis Namnum likes to personally take care of the members and that's one thing that sets us apart as a company.

His email is publicly available to all members and anyone who wish to contact him directly for any reason. We are very transparent in the way we handle our business. 

Even though at times unfortunate things may happen, we are always open to work things out and encourage our members to reach us directly and give us a chance to prove our value and commitment to serve.

Kind regards,

Ignaura Tejeda Solimán
Social Media Coordinator and Community Manager


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## swatts

Yes, I have just written this "president" with a very lengthy letter.  I have had so many problems, some similar, but I have written him first, to give him the chance to fix it.  If I do not get a satisfactory response I will post my story as well.


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## Mollygrubber

Very interested to see where this goes, and how effective contacting Mr Namnum will be.


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## Huntgas

*Occidental Vacation Resort*

Hi Everyone,
We purchased our first timeshare with these folks in 1994.  It was a different product at that time. Started as the Diamond Resort, then Allegro Diamond Resort, Allegro Cozumel, and finally Occidental Allegro Cozumel (at least that is the way I recall). We bought fixed week units and fixed units because we wanted this resort every year as we were new divers and loved the "home atmosphere" we felt here.  We have met people from all over which we meet at the resort each year and have become close friends. Also, there are staff at the resort that we have been friends with since the beginning. Our kids were 9,7 and 4 when we started this journey. They too have grown up here at our "beach home"and have made great friends also.
OK, enough of this.....We too have had some problems with promises and reservations not being honored when we arrived. You are right, they want to ignore you until you go away. Only problem was, we didn't go away. Finally, I learned the secret to getting exactly what we paid for and getting it at the right time.
Yes, it was Luis Namnum, the president of Occidental Vacation Club. Seems he is about the only original from the original Diamond resort.  Also, he can sometimes be the only one who will stand up for the customer and do the right thing. Each and every time I have contacted him with a problem, ha has taken a personal interest and actually solved every one of my concerns.  Now, I am not speaking for others, but I think if you will take him up on the offer and contact him, he will try. He may not be happy for me offering his services, but he did offer....
Danny (original Diamond-Allegro-Occidental owner)


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## OVC

Hello Danny,

Thank you for message. We at Occidental Vacation Club work very hard to always take care of the needs, concerns and requests for all our members. As you said, Mr. Luis Namnum is always there for our members. He personally answers every email members send him and is willing to solve any concern you may have.

If you need assistance or have any requests or concerns, you can email concierge@occidentalvacationclub.com. it's an official Customer Service email address. We will take care of whatever it is that you need for your vacations.

Hope to see you soon in Mexico!

Best regards,

Ignaura Tejeda Solimán
Community Manager for Occidental Vacation Club


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## RippedOffbyOVC

*Beware!*

[You are welcome to repost without the profanity. -DeniseM Moderator]


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## TUGBrian

these folks are creative...they contacted google and claimed their privacy was being violated by having a picture of their handwritten signature posted.

note that image isnt even hosted on TUG, but on a private photobucket account.

ive of course asked the OP to black out the handwritten signature part to comply with googles request =)


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## TUGBrian

use the email posted above:

concierge@occidentalvacationclub.com


let us know the response, im sure everyone here would be interested in their excuse for not honoring the refund.


(also please add/edit your existings posts, vs making duplicates)


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## Villager91

Laura,

Sorry to hear that you got caught up in the Occidental Vacation Club scam too.  They falsely promised that 30% discount off of airfare too when we were in the sales room.  When I called the occidental reservation line ad RCI, both had no idea what I was talking about and said that there was no such discount.

I just hope that anyone who falls for this scam has time to send a cancellation notice within the 5 business day window of opportunity.  That seems to be the only surefire way of getting your money back (and even then only because of the credit card companies, not because of Occidental Vacation Club actually following the law and their own contract).  This Luis Namnum contact seems like another delay tactic to push people outside of the 5 day rescission period.


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## OVC

Dear Mrs. Downey,

We would like to address some of your concerns: 

Our commitment as a company is to offer our members superior accommodations, facilities and service while not having to pay more for COMPARABLE accommodations. Our facilities are bigger, regularly remodeled and with better furniture and décor package than regular hotels rooms, usually sold through on line travel agents. 

Additionally, our service levels are higher. In every affiliated property we have dedicated club staff that caters to ours member’s needs, members only lounge and specific areas that regular hotel guests can’t have access to. That makes our product very different.   
We understand that any on-line players could best our price usually for very specific booking windows; we are not so sure they can compete with our level of accommodation’s and services. It is not part of our product offering to compete with these agencies.  
Even so, tailored for those cases, we implemented and published our Discount Pledge (which you can find on our website). This pledge states that if you find a better rate than what you are trying to book or have booked, we will not only match that discounted rate, but grant a 15% discount on top of it. Obviously accommodations have to be comparable. 

Our contracts are very clear regarding the cancelation period. After buying the membership, you have up to one week (depending on location) to cancel it and receive a full refund.  Internally we usually allow up to 30 days.

In your particular case, for over 14 months after buying you showed having no issues with your purchase, including two positive feedback calls within the first 60 days.  14 months later you started communications with customer service and eventually Mr. Namnum indicating dissatisfaction, centered mostly on the price differential when compared to online travel agencies. 

Although you refund requested was long overdue and that based on your written commitment (our contract) the company incurred in all the expenses associated with the sale including taxes, registration, fees and commissions, in an effort to solve the situation instead of sending your account to delinquent collections and the possible negative effect that may have on your credit history, we accepted your cancelation request and agreed on a refund amount 

We mailed you a standard disclosure document which you declined to sign. We tried our best to make things happen, but you walked away promising to do your best to tarnish our reputation on line.

In regard to your constant statements that Mr. Namnum lied to you. What Mr. Namnum said regarding refund was that if you found, in one particular holiday you wished to book, a better price for a comparable holiday, he would refund you right there and then, both examples that you sent in did not meet that criteria.  

We do our best to fix things; give a good service and find a middle ground, what we can't and won't accept is unreasonable blackmail.  We have more than 24,000 happy families that speak on our behalf. We work day after day to serve them and provide them with exceptional vacation experiences. 

We create ample channels for our members to communicate their issues, giving us an opportunity to fix them.  We are believers of open communication; we strongly believe in our product and have nothing to hide.

Regards,

Ignaura Tejeda Solimán
Social Media Coordinator & Community Manager


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## Karen G

*refund*

Three posts have been deleted at the request of the poster as a condition of getting her money refunded. Occidental required that her negative comments be removed before they gave her the refund, so I did that.


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## Nev

Ugh...I beside myself. Please don't feel sorry for me. I just can't believe I let myself get into this situation. I know...knew...better each time.

I think the letter I just emailed to lnamnum@do.occidentalhotels.com sums it up. Would be interested to know everyone's thoughts. 


_My name is ______, account #_____.

We've stayed twice at your resorts, first time Xcaret, second time Punta Cana. 

On our first visit we signed up for the First Club. On our second visit we upgraded to Royal Club.

NEITHER time during the sale was it ever stated that we have to "pay" additional for all-inclusive service. We were NEVER told this. Ever.

I just tried to book a vacation using our week, and found out it's going to cost me an additional $1071. So on top of the $399 a month I'm paying, that will make this vacation cost me $5859 for this year!

EACH time the rate sheet we were show it was explicitly stated that those prices were for additional days outside our week should we want to visit a resort, which was a very important selling point for us. It was NEVER stated those prices are what we need to pay just to use our week. We were told once our loan was up, we would only have our yearly maintenance fee to pay. This is what we were told during BOTH SALES.


Is my new understanding correct, that I have to pay for the "all inclusive" access every time I use my week? That's unacceptable and NOT what we were told.
_

I'm screwed, right? So in addition to my monthly $ to pay off the loan, once it's over I'm still in for $$ AND the maintenance fee.

Thanks,
Nev


----------



## masonam1

*Occidental Playa Del Carmen*

We recently made the mistake of falling for this scam.  Thankfully we found this forum in time and have sent cancellation letters within the five days.  We are optimistic we will get our money back and now have realistic expectations for how hard it will be.  We sent letters in Mexico and again once we were in the US.  We were told many half-truths in the sales meeting and then upon further review of the contracts and online information found out they had lied to us. We felt very stupid afterwards.  

We were given $250 in Occidental Money (to be used at the resorts) as part of the contract, different than the "gifts" for attending the presentation".  I assume this will be removed from our returned funds.  I was wondering if anyone has had any experience with dealing with this situation?  Any advice is appreciated.

Thanks!


----------



## OVC

Nev said:


> Ugh...I beside myself. Please don't feel sorry for me. I just can't believe I let myself get into this situation. I know...knew...better each time.
> 
> I think the letter I just emailed to lnamnum@do.occidentalhotels.com sums it up. Would be interested to know everyone's thoughts.
> 
> 
> _My name is ______, account #_____.
> 
> We've stayed twice at your resorts, first time Xcaret, second time Punta Cana.
> 
> On our first visit we signed up for the First Club. On our second visit we upgraded to Royal Club.
> 
> NEITHER time during the sale was it ever stated that we have to "pay" additional for all-inclusive service. We were NEVER told this. Ever.
> 
> I just tried to book a vacation using our week, and found out it's going to cost me an additional $1071. So on top of the $399 a month I'm paying, that will make this vacation cost me $5859 for this year!
> 
> EACH time the rate sheet we were show it was explicitly stated that those prices were for additional days outside our week should we want to visit a resort, which was a very important selling point for us. It was NEVER stated those prices are what we need to pay just to use our week. We were told once our loan was up, we would only have our yearly maintenance fee to pay. This is what we were told during BOTH SALES.
> 
> 
> Is my new understanding correct, that I have to pay for the "all inclusive" access every time I use my week? That's unacceptable and NOT what we were told.
> _
> 
> I'm screwed, right? So in addition to my monthly $ to pay off the loan, once it's over I'm still in for $$ AND the maintenance fee.
> 
> Thanks,
> Nev



Hello, Nev;

I have read your comment and would like to reach directly. I have sent you a DM on this matter.

Best regards,

Ignaura Tejeda Solimán,

Community Manager


----------



## Justmartiedamarine

*Scammed on our honeymoon*

Unfortunately my husband and I fell victim to this scam too! I felt ify about the whole thing and when I told them I needed to talk it over with my husband In private Greta walked out and the sales staff barged in. We had be there since 10am ..it was already 5pm and I was dizzy from the drinks they offered. They had our I'd and credit card. I kept thinking we had gotten scammed so as soon as we touched down it Huston . I googled the occidental ... I was shocked how many people had been scammed. I feel stupid for not walking out of the office or wasting a whole day there. After all my honeymoon was only for 3 days. One which we wasted with this scam.

We are hardworking parents ... I really pray to God we can get back our refund $1,706.50 ... Yes they gave us 150 dollars but they took up our whole day  which we will never get back. They wrote that they gave us taxi tickets but we didn't take them because we had rented a car. 

I'm sure they will keep the 575 they claim they spent on a scuba trip they took us on... But anything beats ruining my credit with this scam.

If anyone reads this please stay away from this place...!!!


Signed8/6 can't wait to get to the post office tomorrow in l.a


----------



## Karen G

Justmartiedamarine said:


> Signed8/6 can't wait to get to the post office tomorrow in l.a


Be sure to mail your letter of rescission with proof from the post office of the date you send it.  It would be good to notify your credit card company as well and dispute the charge.

You shouldn't be charged for any of the gifts they enticed you with to come to the presentation.

It's great that you are within the rescission period according to Mexican law. You should be okay as long as you rescind in time.


----------



## Justmartiedamarine

Karen G said:


> Be sure to mail your letter of rescission with proof from the post office of the date you send it.  It would be good to notify your credit card company as well and dispute the charge.
> 
> You shouldn't be charged for any of the gifts they enticed you with to come to the presentation.
> 
> It's great that you are within the rescission period according to Mexican law. You should be okay as long as you rescind in time.





Ty Karen .. I hope it all works out.. They made me sign a letter saying that the stuff we got was not a gift and that if I cancelled they would charge me 575.
I called citi mc while in Huston during the layover and told them to hold the charge. That i was disputing this scam.Tomorrow before I go to work ill mail the letter I emailed earlier today.
I will definitely request it to be certified ... Wondering if I should fedex one too ? 


Scared straight --.


----------



## Karen G

Justmartiedamarine said:


> I will definitely request it to be certified ... Wondering if I should fedex one too ?
> 
> 
> Scared straight --.


Fedex isn't necessary. Once you have proof from the post office that you mailed the letter today, that's all you need. If they do try to charge you for any gift they used to entice you to come to their presentation, dispute that, too.   When the OPC (outside personal contact) people sign you up to go to a presentation, they offer all kinds of goodies or cash to get you to go listen to the sales pitch.  When you show up, you have fulfilled your end of the bargain and you are entitled to whatever they promised you.  When the OPC makes his offer, he doesn't say you'll get the gift if you buy what they are selling. He says you'll get it if you go to the presentation.

Is that how the gift was offered to you?


----------



## Passepartout

Technically, 'rescission' means to set the sale back to the condition it was in before the sale. Exactly as it was, as if nothing had happened. Profeco has ruled that 'gift offered for attending a timeshare presentation' are just that 'gifts' and the property of the recipient. 

Now, that said, if you were offered the scuba trip valued for $575 on condition of buying the TS, that's something different. It boils down to when the offer of the scuba trip was made. If before the presentation as incentive to attend, it's yours and letter or not, they can't charge you. Collecting it may be another issue. If the scuba trip was offered as a discounted perk, and absorbed by the resort because you are 'new owners', you might have a harder time getting your full refund.

On the bright side, even if you have to pay the $575- and you get out of the TS purchase, you got a nice scuba trip and what you save by rescinding will easily pay for another 'make-up' honeymoon later.

Welcome to TUG. We're overjoyed you found us in time.

If you don't mind, tell us how much the weasels were going to charge you for their TS. We're keeping track of the verifiable savings that TUG has saved people. So far it's over a million dollars in the last few years. Can you help add to that amount?

Jim


----------



## Justmartiedamarine

Passepartout said:


> Technically, 'rescission' means to set the sale back to the condition it was in before the sale. Exactly as it was, as if nothing had happened. Profeco has ruled that 'gift offered for attending a timeshare presentation' are just that 'gifts' and the property of the recipient.
> 
> Now, that said, if you were offered the scuba trip valued for $575 on condition of buying the TS, that's something different. It boils down to when the offer of the scuba trip was made. If before the presentation as incentive to attend, it's yours and letter or not, they can't charge you. Collecting it may be another issue. If the scuba trip was offered as a discounted perk, and absorbed by the resort because you are 'new owners', you might have a harder time getting your full refund.
> 
> On the bright side, even if you have to pay the $575- and you get out of the TS purchase, you got a nice scuba trip and what you save by rescinding will easily pay for another 'make-up' honeymoon later.
> 
> Welcome to TUG. We're overjoyed you found us in time.
> 
> If you don't mind, tell us how much the weasels were going to charge you for their TS. We're keeping track of the verifiable savings that TUG has saved people. So far it's over a million dollars in the last few years. Can you help add to that amount?
> 
> Jim



They offered to give me passes for a few trips which they did (18 dollars for tulum and two tickets for punta sur) but I had no time to use them. Because tulun closed at 7 and they didn't let use leave till 530. We were about 35 mins away ....
We were waiting for our fairy tickets back and my I'd and credit card. I told them that i was upset how much time they took away from my day especially since it was only going to be 90mins according to the guy at the airaport but they had us there from 10 am to 545pm.

They claim to feel bad because they new I was only there for 3 days and I wouldn't get to do the Tulum trip so the sales rep said they would take us on a Snorkeling trip (sorry not scuba) at the allegro . We agreed. But they maid us sign a sheet saying they would charge us back the continental money and even taxi fair .. But I explianted that I had a rented a car and didnt need it. I even picked up the sales rep from the Cozumel dock to go on the snorkeling trip at the allegro . It's such a joke I honestly feel stupid for not walking out.
My husband and I were fooled. 

They pitched us a studio for 13k but after financing charges we were going to pay 16k and asked for 1755 cash as a deposit payments were going to be about 245 a month. It was for bi-annual benefits and they told us we would get 33% off the written all inclusive fee...but when we asked why it wasn't in writing in our contract they brushed us off . Carlos Sosa sales rep said he would take care of it personally but Greta couldn't included in the contract.

All I needed was a taxi to the melia to enjoy my honeymoon instead I ended up falling for a scam wasted one whole day out of three. 
I'm glad I found this website. It's helped my husband and I so much .

Thank you all


----------



## Karen G

Justmartiedamarine said:


> They offered to give me passes for a few trips which they did (18 dollars for tulum and two tickets for punta sur) but I had no time to use them. Because tulun closed at 7 and they didn't let use leave till 530. We were about 35 mins away ....
> We were waiting for our fairy tickets back and my I'd and credit card. I told them that i was upset how much time they took away from my day especially since it was only going to be 90mins according to the guy at the airaport but they had us there from 10 am to 545pm.
> 
> They claim to feel bad because they new I was only there for 3 days and I wouldn't get to do the Tulum trip so the sales rep said they would take us on a Snorkeling trip (sorry not scuba) at the allegro . We agreed. But they maid us sign a sheet saying they would charge us back the continental money and even taxi fair .. But I explianted that I had a rented a car and didnt need it. I even picked up the sales rep from the Cozumel dock to go on the snorkeling trip at the allegro . It's such a joke I honestly feel stupid for not walking out.
> My husband and I were fooled.


Once your credit card deposit is refunded since you rescinded the contract, if they try to charge you for that snorkel trip, I'd fight that. They did not live up to their end of the bargain of giving you the things they promised. They kept you so long at the presentation by not returning your credit card and ID that you missed the other activities. Plus, they shouldn't be charging you for transportation to the snorkel site since you picked up the salesman in your own rental car!  What a sleazy bunch! 

Report them to   Profeco if you get anything less than all the money you paid them on your credit card.


----------



## Justmartiedamarine

Karen G said:


> Once your credit card deposit is refunded since you rescinded the contract, if they try to charge you for that snorkel trip, I'd fight that. They did not live up to their end of the bargain of giving you the things they promised. They kept you so long at the presentation by not returning your credit card and ID that you missed the other activities. Plus, they shouldn't be charging you for transportation to the snorkel site since you picked up the salesman in your own rental car!  What a sleazy bunch!
> 
> Report them to   Profeco if you get anything less than all the money you paid them on your credit card.



Seriously ... I can't believe we got sucked in to all this load of crap.
I've been so stressed out with this whole thing that it causing tension at home now. I can't wait to put this nightmare behind us.
A rep from the ovc emailed me through this site. 
Should I reply ?

I'm sure all of you have had this happen too.
Btw the email I sent the sales rep and Greta advising that I was canceling 
Was never replied. Yesterday that I left the post office during my lunch
I couldn't help but feel so helpless. I hope other visitors 
To Cozumel have Internet access to read this before they agree to the tour.


----------



## Karen G

Justmartiedamarine said:


> .
> A rep from the ovc emailed me through this site.
> Should I reply ?


 There is nothing to be gained by having any further contact with the sales dept., in my opinion.  Since you rescinded within the time specified by Mexican law, you should be okay.


----------



## Passepartout

As Karen said, there is nothing to be gained by any interchange with the sales weasels. However you might just copy if back to them with the addendum that you are exercising your legal right of rescission within the allowed time and that you expect a full refund of every cent you paid. And you expect it as soon as possible. And indicate thay you are cc'ing Profeco.


----------



## KingCupcake

*[removed]*

[_Post text removed at request of Original Poster.  This is required by the developer as a condition of settlement._  -- Makai Guy, TUG BBS Administrator]


----------



## Karen G

If you feel there was fraud involved in your transaction you have nothing to lose by contacting Profeco here. Maybe they can help you.


----------



## siesta

You arent the first person coming here to complain of occidentals sales practice, and you definitely wont be the last.  However, thhe last thread i remember seeing got someone from corporate's attention, and I think they let the person off the hook if they redacted their post. You should look for that persons contact info and forward him this thread


----------



## Justmartiedamarine

Passepartout said:


> As Karen said, there is nothing to be gained by any interchange with the sales weasels. However you might just copy if back to them with the addendum that you are exercising your legal right of rescission within the allowed time and that you expect a full refund of every cent you paid. And you expect it as soon as possible. And indicate thay you are cc'ing Profeco.



I ignored the 1st email from the sales rep.
But now they are emailing me again. I'm so frustrated. I had to mail over night copies to my citi cc proof of the contract date I mailed cancellation along wih emails. They said it would take no less them 45 days to get a final answer .
So the 15 day refund is a big lie too .. Why am I surprised ? Big lesson learned.


----------



## Justmartiedamarine

*Response to email received from sales rep*

Post of reply written to sales rep...8/27/13

Im exercising our legal right of rescission within the allowed time and i will fight for a full refund of what we paid. Its been more then 15 days since we mailed and emailed are rescission and yet no refund has been made. I will be contacting Profeco.

None of the things we were promised were given to us. We couldn't even do tulum because we left so late from your place. That's why you offered and we accepted a Snorkeling trip. Now Greta wrote she gave us taxi tickets.. Really ? We picked up the other sales rep in our car rental from the fairy.We rented a car that's how all this got started why would we need a taxi ?

Out of our three day honeymoon we spent a whole day in your presentation . Not the 90 mins we were told ... it actually was more like 8-9 hours. 

The membership you offered was not special .. Dozens of ppl have been scammed and posted reviews on line for the world to see. Like the fact you told us we would have 30% off . When my husband asked why it wasn't in writing you said it was ok . But I've read dozen of ppl who were told the same thing and the club didn't honor it.

I was even contacted by someone from the club after I posted my personal Experience.

 Let me be clear we wish nothing to do with scam anymore . I mailed and emailed my rescission since 8/8/13

C.Alvarez


----------



## Justmartiedamarine

*Update*

I received a call from the clubs sales rep... Let me say these ppl will say anything . Told me there was no cancelation option .

How can ppl work like this ?


----------



## KingCupcake

[_Post text removed at request of Original Poster.  This is required by the developer as a condition of settlement._  -- Makai Guy, TUG BBS Administrator]


----------



## Karen G

KingCupcake said:


> I sent my original post to the profeco email address someone posted on here, so I will wait to hear from them before I proceed to create a website/blog.


You might also try calling Profeco. Phone numbers are on that website that I linked in my post above.  I believe someone posted in the past that they had a successful outcome with Profeco by talking with someone there on the phone. They had to ask for an agent who speaks English.

From the website, here's what they need from you to file a formal complaint: 
To submit a formal complaint, you must send the following paperwork: a brief description of the problem, copy of the contract and of your ID.


----------



## KingCupcake

Karen G said:


> You might also try calling Profeco. Phone numbers are on that website that I linked in my post above.  I believe someone posted in the past that they had a successful outcome with Profeco by talking with someone there on the phone. They had to ask for an agent who speaks English.
> 
> From the website, here's what they need from you to file a formal complaint:
> To submit a formal complaint, you must send the following paperwork: a brief description of the problem, copy of the contract and of your ID.



Thanks for all the help, I certainly appreciate it!


----------



## jagibbs

*DAMN fell for this scam, any suggestions?*

Damn...

We just realized today (almost 1 year after signing up for an Occidental package) that we were taken surprise by Occidental also!  Didn't realize it until today when I called to book our first week vacation.  We were taken aback to find out that the $15,000+ we paid for the membership doesn't cover much. Apparently we need to pay between $50-200 PER PERSON PER NIGHT for each trip we use, in addition to the $275 maintenance fee and $15,000 up front cost for the 13 week package.

Comparing the overall price of a particular trip (initial cost+maintenance fee+all inclusive per person fees) to the retail cost of the same trip for non club members, makes it seem like a decent deal because they are just so expensive to begin with, however it's still more than it was made to seem during the sales pitches and explanation of the contract.

Do I feel deceived and cheated?  Yes, a bit.  Is it the end of the world?  No, and likely we will try to use our membership as best as possible to get the moneys worth.

J


----------



## Justmartiedamarine

*Sales team will target you after you cancel*

It's been over 30days since I cancelled and I still can't get a refund. Not only that... on my way to work one of the sales rep called my cell to harass and threaten me . When we got off the phone he emailed me a vulgar email with profanity . These people have no shame! God willing I will see our money back and plan to stay as active as possible to open people's eyes to this scam!

For those of us who got scammed .. Keep it going with updates ! Ppl who find us on the web need to see this company for what it really is, a scam!!!!


----------



## KingCupcake

[_Post text removed at request of Original Poster.  This is required by the developer as a condition of settlement._  -- Makai Guy, TUG BBS Administrator]


----------



## Passepartout

KingCupcake said:


> I am getting an confirmation email tomorrow, and once that is filled out it should take 15 business days to get the refund issued.
> 
> If this is in fact legit, and goes down as he said it would; I am more than happy with the outcome and will* rescind all negative comments about Occidental Vacation Club.*



Those who have successfully untangled themselves from Mexican timeshare purchases seem to have this in common. It seems to be S.O.P. for getting a refund. The last thing they want is a story such as yours to be the first thing that pops up on a Google search when a mark gets to their room after a purchase.

All the best to you and I suspect you'll get the refund, in full- and on time.

Jim


----------



## Justmartiedamarine

*Becarful they lié about refunds*



KingCupcake said:


> A gentleman named Damon from Occidental Vacation Club just got in touch with me apologizing "from the bottom of his heart" for the lies I was told, and is offering me a full refund.  He said he came into the company a few months ago, and his first job was to get the garbage out of their company and fix the mess they left behind.  He also informed me that the two sales persons who sold me my package are no longer with the company because of their lies and deceit in sales.
> 
> He seemed genuinely concerned, and was very apologetic and cordial about the whole thing.  At this point, I am happy with what he, and Occidental Vacation Club is willing to do to make things right with me.  I am getting an confirmation email tomorrow, and once that is filled out it should take 15 business days to get the refund issued.
> 
> If this is in fact legit, and goes down as he said it would; I am more than happy with the outcome and will rescind all negative comments about Occidental Vacation Club.
> 
> I'll let you know how this progresses!




Please see emails bellow I cancelled within 5 days as stated by law in the contract ...it's been over 45 days not 15 days like they promise to refund you in

Oh By the way they are deducting 575 . These ppl are scam artist 


Hope my story helps someone !

My email response bellow and under email from Greta Sanchez ovc


To whom it may concern:


      In reply to an email from Greta Sanchez ...

    I expect my full refund as the gifts that were promised were not given. Your so called 90 min presentation kept us there more then 8 hours and our id and credit card were held for the whole 8 hours plus. due to this fact i was not able to do any of the things promised to us. I was very upset and confronted the sales rep,  Because of this I was offered a snorkeling trip  i could use on Cozumel where we were staying ... which now your trying to charge me? this is ridicules!  Also the taxi vouchers were not accepted by us . We even picked up your sales rep from the fairy dock in our own rental car at our own expense. I will continue to dispute this charge with citi bank. As this so called club membership was nothing more then a scam. Your sales staff not only mislead us they sent vulgar harassing emails. 

If I don't receive my full refund you can expect us to continue to post not only on tugg but other private and public websites, exactly all the misleading tactics you used on us, our awful experience with ovc staff and of course all the emails from your sales staff where I was harassed.

Be sure to note that I respected the 5 days asked by law for cancelation however you exceed the 15 working days to grant me my full refund which now you are disputing. Over 500 dollars !

C.A












Sent from my iPhone5

On Sep 18, 2013, at 5:25 PM, "Greta Sanchez" <grsanchez@mx.occidentalhotels.com> wrote:

Good afternoon 

We have confirmation from our accountant department that the refund to your card for the amount $1,131.50usd was applied yesterday, please verify with your bank that you have your money back, and please sign the attached letter, that would be the last document needed to complete the cancellation process since we need to have it back in your file, you can send it scanned back to this same e-mail address.

We will be waiting for your response.

Kind regards,


Greta Sanchez
VLO/ Operation Supervisor Playacar
Occidental Vacation Club


----------



## WorryWart

*not worth it*

[_Post text removed at request of Original Poster.  This is required by the developer as a condition of settlement._  -- Makai Guy, TUG BBS Administrator]


----------



## OVC

Dear KingCupcake,

Here is a note from the President of Occidental Vacation Club:


"It is of my understanding that a refund was issued on your behalf, but I wanted to make a few comments.

If the reason for buying our Membership was the belief that we have partnerships with airlines that guarantee you some sort of Discount then, we need to give you your money back as we do NOT have any arrangements with any airline.

A Company such as ours has to be responsible for how their product is sold by its sales staff. Short of having a corporate officer present every minute of the sales presentation we concentrate and proper hiring, training and culture, additionally, to confirm what was said,  we have a legal team sit down with each new sale and review the contract and a 27 point disclosure statement where we ask for your initials on each of the 27 points.  

One of those points (23) does indicate that you understand that Occidental Vacation Club does not offer or Guarantee that has the capacity to sell airline tickets at discounted or preferential fares. Our contracts show that you did initial this clause.

Unfortunately this does not stop a bad apple from taking the easy road and simply lying to get a sale. We do not accept this, is wrong, is bad business practice. As I have said before, I have absolutely no qualms about refunding all the money you have paid if the sale was made under false pretenses.  Even if is not a false pretense but mainly that you understood something else of what was being said, and that understating changes dramatically what you thought to have purchased.

I also understand that our members need additional time to re-think what the new commitment means to their lives: will it make it better? We normally extend the 5 days legal cancellation period to whatever is reasonable. Our issue is not so much the 5 or 30 days, but we look more towards the fact that you are happy and comfortable with the new purchase.  

I gather from your comments that you did like our product, the units, the Yacht Club etc. That you’re dissatisfaction comes from the airline discount promise. Thou we work with an agency that specializes in Bulk Pricing and can sometimes get our members a good deal, we do NOT have any special partnership with any airline nor can include airline discounts as part of our Occidental Vacation Club product.

Best regards,


Luis"



KingCupcake said:


> Let me preface this rant with the fact that I am in no way opposed to getting a product, for any price, if you receive what was promised.  I have already lost $12,000 and a lot of my sanity because of the lies, deceit, and sales tactics of the folks at the Occidental Grand in Cozumel, and their "Occidental Vacation Club".  If nothing else comes of this legally, I can sleep a little easier at night knowing that I have hopefully steered others clear of my mistake.
> 
> We were first time travelers to Cozumel, and Mexico in general.  At the airport, we were quickly offered a "free rental car" if we came and listened to a sales pitch for a vacation club.  Sounded like a decent deal to us.  So we agreed to this.  At the end of the sales pitch from the two American sales people (Jason and Joshua), we decided that what they were offering was in fact a good deal for us, so we signed on the dotted line.  The biggest factor for making that decision was that 1) Occidental Vacation Club partnered with all major airlines to get members rates 30-50% off that of published rates.  They didn't say "possibly", or "maybe", or "from time to time"... they said it as if it were a regular, ongoing agreement between their company and the airlines.
> 
> Because of this, I factored that if we regularly spent $800-$1,200 USD round trip per person to visit the Caribbean and Mexico, that we would now be able to get it for approximately $400-$600 USD per person.  Since we regularly travel twice a year, that's an annual savings of $2,400.  If we brought more than just the two of us (friends and family) the airline savings would be even more evident.  This was enough of an incentive for me to sign the contract.
> 
> We came home, and after a few weeks I started to check into this agreement that Occidental had with the major airlines, and much to my surprise, no one at Occidental or RCI had any idea what I was talking about.  There were several other things that also were dishonest at best, including acting like this whole book of "$5 Travel Adventures" was so easy to use and navigate, when in fact it's next to impossible to book anything without the airfare that again, I thought I was getting 30-50% off.
> 
> When I sent an email to the Mexican "lawyer" with whom we signed the paperwork with about the airline discounts, this was her response:
> 
> _When we went through page 5, clause 26, I clearly explained that the reservation department may provide the Airline booking service and I recommended to you to check also with RCI and the Airline Company to compare prices as we can not guarantee preferential or the lowest rate._
> 
> So as you can see, she says she told me all about how no one can guarantee preferential or the lowest rate, yet the sales people (standing in the next room no less) told me with 100% certainly that we could always get the special travel deals on airfare if we signed up for their vacation club.  THIS IS WHERE I HAVE A VERY BIG PROBLEM.  If that's not bait and switch, I don't know what is.  They lie, lie, lie, and then once you get in the room and they go over the 10,000 legal items, they have you legally hooked on contract.
> 
> Should I have listened better to Page 5, clause 26?  Absolutely.  Is this partially my own fault for not paying complete attention? Again, yes.  However, after spending the better part of six hours in a sales pitch, mixed with alcohol, and the excitement of what I thought was an awesome deal I was getting; you can forgive me for not listening line for line through her broken English.
> 
> The bottom line is OCCIDENTAL VACATION CLUB sales people have been taught to say whatever it is you need to say to get the sale, and then leave it to the legal department to get us to sign on the dotted line, with no intention of ever fulfilling the promises made by their sales staff.
> 
> Also, they have free will to "upgrade you" for the remainder of your stay to their top of the line rooms (which was very nice), as well as take you out to dinner and use of their private yacht.  The sad part is, we really enjoyed these things thinking it was their way of saying "thanks" for signing up.  When in actuality it was just another sales tactic.  I am so utterly disappointed in this company, and how they conduct business.  While I will probably never see my money back, I Would at least like to see that no one else out there gets taken to the bank like I did.
> 
> As a business owner myself, I know that sometimes employees do things outside of their training, or what I have taught them.  The few times that has happened with me, even though it cost my company money... I bent over backwards to ensure my customers that that was a poor individual decision by a bad employee, and didn't reflect us as a company.  It seems that with OCCIDENTAL VACATION CLUB, it's business as usual.
> 
> *p.s. - If anyone (other than Fabiola Márquez) from Occidental would like to talk to me, I would be more than happy to listen to your explanation of what happened to me.


----------



## OVC

WorryWart said:


> We became members with Occidental Vacation Club about two years ago and we went to costa rica this year. I have never had such a FRUSTRATING mentally exhausting "vacation" in my life. I have called their customer service to try to put an end to this contract with no success. Since we have used it I know a full refund is out of the question, but I need to cut all ties and obligations to these people and their fraud. I was traveling with three other family members. We needed 2 rooms, one with one bed and one with two beds. When I booked over the phone, I was told this was guaranteed. I get there and both rooms have one bed. It took them the entire day to change this and they gave us a room with a giant hole in the ceiling in the bathroom. This room was not a vacation club room and also located across the resort from the rest of my family members. Not my idea of a great family vacation when we're all separated for the majority of the time. To top it off, they kept saying they would switch our room again and NEVER DID. We come to find out that this resort does not have double rooms in the vacation club area. We were never told this when booking. How is a room with two beds such a crazy unforseen request?? $16,000 for this membership and it doesn't buy a room with two beds for a week? This whole thing is worthless. To top it off, our building lost power one evening and lost water another evening. I am beyond upset with this company for wasting my time and money. This was marketed to us as a family vacation club. Why would a family vacation club not have rooms with double beds? If anyone could point me in the right direction to end this contract without paying another fortune in legal fees I would greatly appreciate it. Thanks for reading.



Hello, here is a note from the President of the company regarding your situation.

***

Hello, WorryWart

I have read your comments. Not happy that instead of a great holiday you had all these problems. 
I would like to compensate you for those issues with a certificate for a free week stay for two in any of our properties (excluding Aruba and Royal Hideaway). Additionally I'd like to make you a deal: if you are not entirely satisfied with your next holiday I will cancel your membership and refund whatever you paid less time used.

Our promise is to make your holidays better, not worse. If we are not able to do this, I think we should be able to give you your money back.

Luis Namnum
President


----------



## Passepartout

OVC said:


> Hello, here is a note from the President of the company regarding your situation.
> 
> ***
> 
> Hello, WorryWart
> 
> I have read your comments. Not happy that instead of a great holiday you had all these problems.
> I would like to compensate you for those issues with a certificate for a free week stay for two in any of our properties (excluding Aruba and Royal Hideaway). Additionally I'd like to make you a deal: if you are not entirely satisfied with your next holiday I will cancel your membership and refund whatever you paid less time used.
> 
> Our promise is to make your holidays better, not worse. If we are not able to do this, I think we should be able to give you your money back.
> 
> Luis Namnum
> President



I would hope that in the interest of customer service, you would CC the person you are replying to's email. It has been 2 weeks since their one and only TUG post outlining their troubles with your company, and one week since their last visit to TUG.

Surely your records have a better way to contact customers than via public forum.

WorryWart: If you DO get communication from OVC that brings you satisfaction, please report back. We'd love to hear of your success.

Jim


----------



## OVC

Hello Passepartout, 

As you just said, we do are contact with the user.

Have a nice day!

Ignaura Tejeda Solimán
Community Manager


----------



## royroy63

*Occidental Vacation Club - False Sales Promises*

Hello everyone,

After reading many of the posts here, I have decided to add my voice too.  After reading KingCupcake’s post, I would have to say that our experience has been very similar to what has been posted.   I hope others reading this take heed and avoid getting suckered by the less than scrupulous sales staff and their tactics.

We were vacationing in Occidental Grand Xcaret in Mexico.  The resort is nice and has eco-archeological theme park right next to it.  We were planning on visiting the park, and were told by Occidental sales staff that we could get free tickets if we attended a 60-90 minute sales pitch for the club.  Let me tell you this, you will be there for much longer than the advertised time.  You will also be offered plenty of drinks during the presentation.  My advice is to refuse the drinks and stay sober.

We were told that we could use Occidental for our 1-stop vacation shopping, arranging for our vacation week, air flight, and airport shuttle with one call.  We were also told that we, as club members, would receive 30% off the published rates, and discounted air flights.  Additionally, we could make use of “accelerated” vacation time were we could use 5 additional weeks per year for friends/relatives, OR even for rentals.  The sales staff told us we could rent out up 5 weeks per year at a rate of $700-$800 per week.  The Occidental Sales Staff even provided a sales brochure and a business card for the Resort Rentals Mexico, claiming that they handle many rentals for club members.   I did end up listed my unit for rent (for a nominal listing fee).  It’s been close to 2 years now and there have been “zero” rentals occurring regardless of the asking price.   Lies upon lies were layered on top of us.  The deal sounded too good to be true, but the Occidental Sales Staff is very slick and put on a very believable pitch with the terrific benefits of membership.  Next step was with the Occidental lawyer, who reiterated the important legal points of the contract to the liquored up customer.  

As KingCupcake mentioned, the bottom line is OCCIDENTAL VACATION CLUB sales people have been taught to say whatever it is you need to say to get the sale, and then leave it to the legal department to get us to sign on the dotted line, with no intention of ever fulfilling the promises made by their sales staff.

The sad part for us is that we actually enjoyed the resort, but because of the many false promises and business ethics of the sales staff, we are not likely to ever visit an Occidental resort again.  It is quite sad that a resort needs to employ unscrupulous sales staff and sales tactics in order to sell vacation memberships.   I would not wish this experience on anyone.   

I’m looking forward to a response from OVC for an explanation of why this is happening all too often.

Regards,
Roy


----------



## OVC

Hello Roy, below is a comment from the Club's President regarding your recent post.



> "As a result of using this medium we don’t know details about your account nor can we check up on this statements. We will contact you directly through Private Message to get more information on the account.
> 
> Our sales teams are NOT trained to say anything they want in order to make a sale. This is not a very healthy or intelligent business strategy, as sooner or later the customer is going to want fulfillment of what was promised.
> 
> We maintain our policy that if the product we sold you is not the product we are delivering we will refund.
> 
> We are aware of the rental pitch and we do not condone this. Any member has the possibility of renting their weeks. We don’t think that you can pay for the membership with rental income. We try to indicate in our contracts and by asking the member in the disclosure statement, that they understand to be entering this agreement without any expectations of generating profits but to use as a vacationing experience. All members MUST sign this disclosure statement for the deal to go through
> 
> We also cannot control simple greed. If you are purchasing a week of something and the salesman is telling you that he can get you five more for free so that you can rent those five other weeks and earn a profit to pay for the product you are buying, then is not so much that the salespeople are lying but that both may be getting together in a private business deal. Especially if ALL the paper work is telling you otherwise.
> 
> Members do receive a large discount on their rate usually 30 to 45% of what is published. More important, if at any time the hotel publishes a rate lower than the members rate, we not only grant that discounted rate to the member but tack on a 15% discount.
> 
> Members may accelerate their weeks not only 5 weeks but all 25 for one large group. Is just subject to availability.
> 
> We would like to make clear that there is no hard liquor served in the sales room. Potential buyers are offered juice, soda and beer. The picture that we force- feed alcohol to our clients without their noticing is a bit childish.
> 
> The official policy is that if a client has been irresponsible enough to get drunk during or prior to visiting the sales room the contract is simply NOT signed. In addition all customers have 5 days to undue the contract or any of the welcome calls made 30 days of purchase. I believe that if a person signs any type of contract while drunk then is mostly due to their own lack of character.
> 
> Best regards.
> 
> Luis"


----------



## royroy63

Hello OVC, I also have a few comments as per below.


“As a result of using this medium we don’t know details about your account nor can we check up on this statements. We will contact you directly through Private Message to get more information on the account.

Our sales teams are NOT trained to say anything they want in order to make a sale. This is not a very healthy or intelligent business strategy, as sooner or later the customer is going to want fulfillment of what was promised. 

We maintain our policy that if the product we sold you is not the product we are delivering we will refund.” 
_For the above statement, is OVC referring the “product we sold you” as per the description in legal document or as per what the Occidental Sale Staff was pitching.  There is a huge difference.  I thought I was buying into what the sale staff was presenting. _​
“We are aware of the rental pitch and we do not condone this. Any member has the possibility of renting their weeks. We don’t think that you can pay for the membership with rental income. We try to indicate in our contracts and by asking the member in the disclosure statement, that they understand to be entering this agreement without any expectations of generating profits but to use as a vacationing experience. All members MUST sign this disclosure statement for the deal to go through

We also cannot control simple greed. If you are purchasing a week of something and the salesman is telling you that he can get you five more for free so that you can rent those five other weeks and earn a profit to pay for the product you are buying, then is not so much that the salespeople are lying but that both may be getting together in a private business deal. Especially if ALL the paper work is telling you otherwise.”

_I was not looking to generate profits by renting out my weeks to pay for my membership as I already have paid out of pocket for that.  However, I was looking to use the rentals to help subsidize part of my annual usage as a “vacationing experience”._​
“Members do receive a large discount on their rate usually 30 to 45% of what is published. More important, if at any time the hotel publishes a rate lower than the members rate, we not only grant that discounted rate to the member but tack on a 15% discount. 

Members may accelerate their weeks not only 5 weeks but all 25 for one large group. Is just subject to availability.” 

“We would like to make clear that there is no hard liquor served in the sales room. Potential buyers are offered juice, soda and beer. The picture that we force- feed alcohol to our clients without their noticing is a bit childish.” 

_The wife and I do not drink hard liquor, but we both do drink beer.   And during the course of this presentation (close to 4 hours), we did have a few.   We are on vacation by the way.  On top of that, once we agreed to purchase with the sales staff, we were then offered complimentary champagne to celebrate the sale, all this before seeing the lawyer._​
“The official policy is that if a client has been irresponsible enough to get drunk during or prior to visiting the sales room the contract is simply NOT signed. In addition all customers have 5 days to undue the contract or any of the welcome calls made 30 days of purchase. I believe that if a person signs any type of contract while drunk then is mostly due to their own lack of character.”

_We were at Occidental for 7 days, and signed the contract within the first couple of days.  Are you suggesting that we cancel the contract before we even leave the resort?  Also, please keep in mind that we were on vacation and people typically do drink while on vacation.  We were not drunk and staggering, but would not likely be able to legally operate a motor vehicle in most countries.  
The bottom line is that we trusted what your sales staff was saying as being the truth.  I guess that is completely my fault.  My encounters with sale staff elsewhere have typically been a positive experience without being marred by false claims and promises._​
Best regards.
Luis


Thank you,
Roy


----------



## CraZyBIrD

*WOW*

Originally Posted by WorryWart  
We became members with Occidental Vacation Club about two years ago and we went to costa rica this year. I have never had such a FRUSTRATING mentally exhausting "vacation" in my life. I have called their customer service to try to put an end to this contract with no success. Since we have used it I know a full refund is out of the question, but I need to cut all ties and obligations to these people and their fraud. I was traveling with three other family members. We needed 2 rooms, one with one bed and one with two beds. When I booked over the phone, I was told this was guaranteed. I get there and both rooms have one bed. It took them the entire day to change this and they gave us a room with a giant hole in the ceiling in the bathroom. This room was not a vacation club room and also located across the resort from the rest of my family members. Not my idea of a great family vacation when we're all separated for the majority of the time. To top it off, they kept saying they would switch our room again and NEVER DID. We come to find out that this resort does not have double rooms in the vacation club area. We were never told this when booking. How is a room with two beds such a crazy unforseen request?? $16,000 for this membership and it doesn't buy a room with two beds for a week? This whole thing is worthless. To top it off, our building lost power one evening and lost water another evening. I am beyond upset with this company for wasting my time and money. This was marketed to us as a family vacation club. Why would a family vacation club not have rooms with double beds? If anyone could point me in the right direction to end this contract without paying another fortune in legal fees I would greatly appreciate it. Thanks for reading.



After reading this forums 
We are very sad as well.
We hoped to see the benefits of the Occidental Vacation Club and it sounded great. For the last 2 years we have tried to use the benefits of the Club.
But always running into issue’s (there are too many to mention at this time)
Our last vacation we went to Occidental Grand Cozumel was again we flew West jet because we could not book through Occidental. But we are so happy it ended up this way because we always meet other club members down at the resort and either couple or many other couples who booked a year in advanced did not receive their First club room or Royal room and in fact they received a room worse than we had from West jet. Yes the resort was under maintenance but 3 building were not occupied and were empty. WOW great organization Occidental Vacation Club. Some club members had a meeting in the First club with some official from Occidental. Which after their discussion a lot of angry people left the meeting and were very (very) unhappy? And make note President of Occidental Vacation Club there were many members there and not one happy person among them, unless you count us West Jet vacationers. 
So up to now, we have been a member and have not been able to use any part of the so called benefits to being a member in this club. It is a fantasy, not real except for the yearly fee which we really regret owning this privileged membership that is not worth the paper it was written on. So what do we do, I ask you President of Occidental Vacation Club. How can you make us a believer in your Occidental Vacation Club?
So as a wise man before me stated?
If anyone could point me in the right direction to end this contract without paying another fortune in legal fees we would greatly appreciate it. Thanks for reading.
P.S. While at the resort they tried to persuade us to buy more into the Occidental Vacation Club. Really! While all these members around us were being totally ripped off and very unhappy.
 Thank you West jet


----------



## OVC

Dear Roy, here's is an answer on behalf of Mr. Namnum.



> Dear Roy
> 
> My job is not so much to argue with my members but to deliver the best vacation experience possible. If we run into problems, to try and solve them to everyone's satisfaction.
> 
> I understand what you are saying about drinking and vacation, is what most of us do. I just wanted to clear up that we do not push people to drink so we can sell them. For us is a long term relationship.
> 
> The product my staff sold you should be the one we are delivering. The paper work counts also but is what you thought you purchased that matters.  If it's not we should talk about fixing it or changing our relationship.
> 
> I can't say that after time has passed we are ready to refund for any complaint, as this would more likely CREATE complaints from people that maybe have no problems but see ways of getting something.
> 
> What I'm saying is that if we can reasonably assess that you entered into this deal based on lies from my people or we are not delivering or cannot deliver what was promised then we should work something out.


----------



## OVC

CraZyBIrD said:


> After reading this forums
> We are very sad as well.
> We hoped to see the benefits of the Occidental Vacation Club and it sounded great. For the last 2 years we have tried to use the benefits of the Club.
> But always running into issue’s (there are too many to mention at this time)
> Our last vacation we went to Occidental Grand Cozumel was again we flew West jet because we could not book through Occidental. But we are so happy it ended up this way because we always meet other club members down at the resort and either couple or many other couples who booked a year in advanced did not receive their First club room or Royal room and in fact they received a room worse than we had from West jet. Yes the resort was under maintenance but 3 building were not occupied and were empty. WOW great organization Occidental Vacation Club. Some club members had a meeting in the First club with some official from Occidental. Which after their discussion a lot of angry people left the meeting and were very (very) unhappy? And make note President of Occidental Vacation Club there were many members there and not one happy person among them, unless you count us West Jet vacationers.
> So up to now, we have been a member and have not been able to use any part of the so called benefits to being a member in this club. It is a fantasy, not real except for the yearly fee which we really regret owning this privileged membership that is not worth the paper it was written on. So what do we do, I ask you President of Occidental Vacation Club. How can you make us a believer in your Occidental Vacation Club?
> So as a wise man before me stated?
> If anyone could point me in the right direction to end this contract without paying another fortune in legal fees we would greatly appreciate it. Thanks for reading.
> P.S. While at the resort they tried to persuade us to buy more into the Occidental Vacation Club. Really! While all these members around us were being totally ripped off and very unhappy.
> Thank you West jet



Hello CraZyBIrD,

Below is a message from the Club's President

"Our mission is to make your holidays better. From this comment we cannot identify the customer so as to look at the concerns. Obviously not being able to book the unit you purchased is a big issue.  Save a couple off peak season weeks, Grand Cozumel seldom has inventory issues as the general occupancy in Cozumel is in the 70's year round. 

In any case, I am very interested to hear all the running issues, even if they are too many to mention as this is a sure way of fixing the individual problem and any general problem that might exist.

Club Member Satisfaction in this particular property is extremely high, 93.2%. It has been an RCI Gold Crown the last five years in a row, currently top 4 properties in Cozumel according to Trip Advisor. People really enjoy this particular property.  

That does nothing for to unsatisfied customer, as each experience is individual not based on average. I urge you to contact my office directly and will the best I can to solve the issues and gain your confidence back.

Luis"


----------



## DStehman927

*Punta Cana*

Not sure if there are separate threads for my particular post, if so please redirect me.  My wife and I recently vacationed at the Occidental Grand Punta Cana for our honeymoon.  Overall a very positive experience.  We were approached by concierge staff offering "time shares" and we thought "what the heck let's see what they have to say."  So we sat down with one of the reps (who was very nice by the way) and went over all the information.  Holy information overload!!  We did the best we could to sort through it and keep everything straight.  We asked many questions, some of which our rep didn't know the answer (he even admitted he was still new at being a rep) and sought other representative's opinions to try and get our questions answered.  So after about 3.5 hours and several cups of café con leche we decided we were convinced and agreed to become a member.  So then we were taken into a room with (I don't remember her title, but she too was very nice) and went over the contract and initialed where requested.  After that was done we went to lunch with our rep.  While at lunch we asked if since we were members if we could get upgraded to the room we just paid all this money for.  After about a 15 minute conversation with one of the managers we were instructed to pack up our room and check in again at the First Club check in.  Great!!  We were then instructed to go to book our complimentary romantic dinner for two in the private royal club restaurant which we thought was a nice gesture.  We also were given a second "honeymoon upgrade" in which we received 2 bottles of rum, additional chocolate covered strawberries delivered to our room, and yet another bottle of champagne.   So after all this was done the rest of our honeymoon continued with absolutely no issues. We had a great time, and not sure if it was the right time of year or coincidence but the food was great every meal(we ate at Le Buffet every night except the romantic dinner due to my wife's gluten allergy).  

Our problems with OVC did not start until we were already home, well past the cancellation time.  It actually started this month when we were looking to book our first stay for this year.  We were looking to return to Punta Cana and when we were speaking with a rep we were informed that the All Inclusive rate was per night, not per week which is what we were told when we signed up.  We were told that we would have to pay $63 per day per person for the length of our stay, and for a 7 day stay would equal $882 on top of our maintenance fee and monthly finance payment.  Then we were told about the Saturday to Saturday rule.  This rule states that we would have to arrive on a Saturday to be treated as a member and be able to utilize the room we paid for and the perks of being a member. Arrival any other day we would be treated just like any other customer and we would get a regular room.  We were never explained this during our presentation nor was it pointed out when we were signing paperwork.  Had we known this we would have never signed up in the first place.  So after doing all the math our trip would cost us - Airfare: (approximately) 800/person, all inclusive: $882, monthly finance payment: $180, yearly maintenance fee: $375 - for an approximate total of $3037.  We booked our honeymoon through a travel agency site (I forget which one) but it only cost us $2200.  This is hardly a money saving technique.  

So my question is: how would I go about getting this cancelled and possibly (hopefully) refunded since we were misled in the presentation and we are well out of the cancellation time??  Thank you all in advance for your advice

D & D


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## Karen G

Welcome to TUG, DStehman927.  Scroll up to post #51 in this thread as contacting Profeco might be a place to start if you feel that fraud is involved in your purchase.


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## pacodemountainside

Yes, the booze flows freely  at Mexican TS presentations and you are well  serenaded.

But come on, do you really believe  a resort(any one ) could provide  all you can eat  and drink for $63 a week?

Most resort  breakfasts with a couple Mimosas  are $20 a person!

 PBS   lobster dinner and bottle of wine was  about  $120. Fortunately  used   credits from sales pitch! 

Did you read what you signed?

Stick with Profeco when seeking help. Lot's  of  save you scammers out there for more money!


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## DStehman927

I thought that was a ridiculously low number as well, which made it seem like an even better deal.  But that is what the sales rep told us when we were in the presentation.. never having dealt with anything like this before we thought it was just one of the perks of paying all that money up front...  we did read and tried to understand everything as best we could when we were initialing the paperwork... thanks for the quick replies.  we are going to see if Profeco can help us..  we are also going to email the concierge email as well and see where that takes us.  I will definitely keep you all posted on our progress.


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## 78sherwood

*occidental Vacation club*

when me and my wife signed up we had a lot of anxiety not having been prepared, they hit us at the airport, moved us to grand Cozumel and set us up in first club, for the week free, gave us a free all day cab tour of the island, giving us first year maintenance free 2oo dollars resort cash, I bought my wife silver jewelry and they gave us the 1 owners week and 1 developers week plus 6 weeks of Bonus time, and 1 free week certificate wee used at the Grand xcaret which we had a great time staying 10 days with bonus time costing 560 dollars for the 3 days all in march, 170 dollars a night compared to $360 a night at other sites, and we were first club and the first club by the pool was excellent having breakfast by the pool 1/4 inch bacon and liquored  coffee I am beside myself describing it wanting to be there, and all the restaurant's the servers work hark and provide first class experience, they did not serve Mexican coffee but the head server made it with the burning liquor it was fantastic, they had an owners party and it was fun with a show  and had drawings for prizes, question is am I happy, Yes , could I buy this cheaper now that I know yes, there are some disgruntled buyers willing to get out for as low as 2grand, so I have learned but my experience is good with this club, I even bought lifetime MyPlatinumrewards and deposited my developer's week for a 1 time $1,000 dollar vacation cash and bought tickets to Hawaii with it plus they gave me a cruise certificate and a resort certificate, joining lifetime cost $3,400 but they sell 49 dollar getaways just like RCI does and I am a member there too for 3 years with my purchase of the occidental vacation club, that cost me $15,700 every other year for 25 years, I did go all in to see if they would disappoint me and so far myplatinumrewards resort certificate does not get me a good deal in Hawaii but I am shopping the Hawaii cruise now and I will bring in a nice price with it , my cruise certificate that is, so that's been my experience with this resort in mexico so far and its been the best


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## Passepartout

Wow! All that and in just one sentence. You Really oughtta join TUG so you can post such a ringing endorsement that is so opposite the majority in the thread. I smell a shill.


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## ilene13

I thought we taught better grammar in Western New York!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## KarenLK

Ilene, maybe it's Niagara Falls, Ontario!


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## pacodemountainside

Smell has reached Colorado.

One would  certainly expect  scammer to be  a little more polished in their pitch.


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## 78sherwood

*whats all the crying about grammar*

ok I need nothing from the crying in my vacation beer babies


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## DeniseM

> whats all the crying about grammar



Most people will just ignore a post that is one long run on sentence, because it's nearly impossible to read.


----------



## pactman4

We spent $25,000 and have used it just 3 times.  With the increases in maintenance fees and all-inclusive fees, not to mention air fare and bus transport to the resort, it is MORE expensive to use my own timeshare than to book a package deal thru Apple Vacations. Never got anything they promised us like help booking discount airline flights. Now I'm faced with maintenance fees for next 20 years.


----------



## OccidentalTourist

*Just got back from Occidental Grand*

What is a time share?

As I understand it, as buyer I decide I like a location and buy 1/50 ownership in a unit for say $25,000.  I get to use my unit for one week(1/52) and for one or two weeks during the year the unit is serviced fixed repaired etc.... (2/50)  That allows for 49 other owners. 

If the company selling time shares is successful at getting 100% subscription, they have effectively sold a vacation unit for $1,250,000.  Having just returned from an admittedly great vacation at Occidental Grand, I believe my unit was not bigger than 500 sq feet. 

I looked up timeshares and found this bbs group.  Here's my point, I also found properties for sale.   This 5,000 square foot home(link below) in cozumel was listed for sale for just over $500,000.  The comparison to a timeshare was stark.  10 X the living space for less than half the REAL price for the timeshare unit. Now let's admit this is not beachfront property but there are loads of public beaches in Cozumel. Anyway it hit me as a large question. Why would you buy a timeshare at that price?  I think timeshares have their place but is $1.2 Million the right price?   I am interested in your responses....

http://www.realtor.com/internationa...Quintana-Roo_Cozumel_Quintana-Roo_MX_15061474


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## Passepartout

The shill is back, or there are a lot of one or two post participants whining about one resort.


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## LannyPC

OccidentalTourist said:


> What is a time share?
> 
> 
> 
> Why would you buy a timeshare at that price?  I think timeshares have their place but is $1.2 Million the right price?   I am interested in your responses..



Hmm.  You asked "What is a time share?" and then went on to answer your questions.

Why would anyone pay $12,500 for a TS in Mexico or anywhere else for that matter?  Well I'm assuming you attended one of those dreaded TS sales presentations.  If you did, then you'll understand why people buy.  All the high-pressure and lies make many people crack.  You can read many people's experiences on these boards as to what prompted them to buy.  You can also read how they regretted it in as few as a few hours later.

Now if you're asking why someone would buy 1/52nd of a condo or townhouse for $12,500 when, proportionately, he can get a whole house for a lot cheaper, there would be a few reasons.

You mentioned Cozumel so I will use that as an example.  If someone is living where you are then why would he need to put down hundreds of thousands of dollars for a property where he will only stay for one, maybe two weeks?

Then there are the maintenance fees (MFs).  If you're staying in Cozumel for one week, then you only pay the MFs for one week ($850, or so).  It will cost a lot more than that to maintain a house in Cozumel for a year

Also there are the exchange privileges.  Owning a house does not get you any exchange possibilities with any exchange company.  So one would have to vacation in Cozumel each year instead of trying out other places.

And of course there's the initial cost.  Many TS owners can swing $12,000 for 1/52nd of a condo but not the hundreds of thousands of dollars to buy a house.  After all, isn't that one of the lines TS sales people use?  Buy only what you will use?  Own a piece of paradise for only $12,000 as opposed to hundreds of thousands?


----------



## OccidentalTourist

*Is there a better way? A newer model fro time shares?*

First off, no I am not a shill.  I would never buy a time share.  I paid $1178 cdn or about $900 US to spend one week at a very nice resort - Occidental Grand in Cozumel.  The economics don't work for me...

I know not everyone can organize and buy a $500,000 home in Cozumel to use for one week per year.

I guess my point was to say that buyers of a timeshare collectively pay a significant premium that is way out of wack for the benefit of convenience.

Is there a better way?

On websites like Air BnB, VRBO, and Holiday-rentals.co.uk there seems to be a lot of choice that is wider than any one network like RCI. 

My view is that timeshares are simply prepaid vacation accommodation.

I think the timeshare sales people conflate a prepaid vacation and a real estate investment.  The message seems to be "you can invest in this project and stay here too. If you ever want to sell you can sell it for more. Isn't that a smart idea?".

Is it better to combine an airBnB or VRBO but use a "by the week rental" for time share owners?  Does one of these websites already exist where Timeshare owners can really get a return? or pay a lot less for a week in order to afford two weeks? one they can use and the other to get rental income?

Just asking.


----------



## LannyPC

OccidentalTourist said:


> I guess my point was to say that buyers of a timeshare collectively pay a significant premium that is way out of wack for the benefit of convenience.
> 
> Is there a better way?
> 
> On websites like Air BnB, VRBO, and Holiday-rentals.co.uk there seems to be a lot of choice that is wider than any one network like RCI.
> 
> My view is that timeshares are simply prepaid vacation accommodation.
> 
> I think the timeshare sales people conflate a prepaid vacation and a real estate investment.  The message seems to be "you can invest in this project and stay here too. If you ever want to sell you can sell it for more. Isn't that a smart idea?".
> 
> Is it better to combine an airBnB or VRBO but use a "by the week rental" for time share owners?  Does one of these websites already exist where Timeshare owners can really get a return? or pay a lot less for a week in order to afford two weeks? one they can use and the other to get rental income?
> 
> Just asking.



The reason why people who buy retail are paying a premium is because someone has to pay all the commissions for the sales people as well as pay for all those presentation gifts.

As for what the sales people tell potential buyers such as "smart idea", "great investment", etc., those sales people are notorious for lying, exaggerating, and deceiving in order to get people to buy.

Websites such as airbnb and VRBO are good for locating rentals of TSs and even houses.  Renting instead of owning in many cases is a good idea because you can find many rentals for less than the MFs, especially in Mexico.


----------



## COOKIECPA

I, too, am waiting for a satisfactory resolve.  If one does not come soon, I shall share all my e mail correspondence and horror stories with fellow TUG BBS members.


----------



## Passepartout

COOKIECPA said:


> I, too, am waiting for a satisfactory resolve.  If one does not come soon, I shall share all my e mail correspondence and horror stories with fellow TUG BBS members.



What exactly are you waiting for? Did you rescind within the allowable period? How long is 'soon'?


----------



## COOKIECPA

*Didn't rescind....*

But never received what they said I would... soon is what I am told the time frame for a reply will be


----------



## Passepartout

COOKIECPA said:


> But never received what they said I would... soon is what I am told the time frame for a reply will be



OK, more questions... What did they promise? Is it in your contract? Just between you and me, salesweasels lie. They can- and will promise the moon and all the stars, but guess what- You'll NEVER get 'em. But if the contract you (and them) signed, says you are entitled to use week XX in a XX size unit, and get YY number of 'bonus weeks', you ARE entitled to get those and not much else. 

Some time ago, no rescission was allowed. You bought it, now pay up. If you didn't take advantage of that offer, you might be a proud timeshare owner. Now, how much leverage they have on the finances of a US or Canadian owner is open to some conjecture.

There have been visitors to TUG who have made lots of accusations against (possibly this) outfit, and the (self-identified) CEO posted here that they would be released from their contract. iirc, that was the last we heard from the OP in that case.

Good Luck and we hope you get resolution, 'soon'.

Jim


----------



## Passepartout

Take a look at posts 26- to about 40. Keep reading if you find it interesting. As you will see, you aren't alone.


----------



## OVC

COOKIECPA said:


> But never received what they said I would... soon is what I am told the time frame for a reply will be



Hello CookieCPA!

If there's any issue you need assistance with, or are still waiting for an answer regarding a concern you may have, don't hesitate to contact us at concierge@occidentalvacationclub.com. We will be glad to help you and address all your questions.

Best regards!

Ignaura Tejeda Soliman
Social Media Manager


----------



## COOKIECPA

COOKIECPA said:


> I, too, am waiting for a satisfactory resolve.  If one does not come soon, I shall share all my e mail correspondence and horror stories with fellow TUG BBS members.


Please disregard posts from me regarding OVC...I posted in the heat of the moment.
Thanks


----------



## COOKIECPA

OVC said:


> Hello CookieCPA!
> 
> If there's any issue you need assistance with, or are still waiting for an answer regarding a concern you may have, don't hesitate to contact us at concierge@occidentalvacationclub.com. We will be glad to help you and address all your questions.
> 
> Best regards!
> 
> Ignaura Tejeda Soliman
> Social Media Manager


Please disregard posts from me regarding OVC..I posted in the heat of the moment.
Thanks


----------



## COOKIECPA

Passepartout said:


> What exactly are you waiting for? Did you rescind within the allowable period? How long is 'soon'?


Quote:
[Upon further reflection, I've removed my post]


----------



## COOKIECPA

COOKIECPA said:


> Please disregard posts from me regarding OVC..I posted in the heat of the moment.
> Thanks


Thank you so much. I am no longer waiting for reply.  Issue has been resolved satisfactorily.


----------



## elmambo

*Help with cancelation*

I've tried to contact Luis Namnum numerous times to no avail. He's even emailed me and copied (who I guess is) his assistant/coordinator and said that she would be in contact with me to take care of my request to cancel (since I was within the 5 day period); I've heard nothing since last week.

Can anyone recommend what my next step should be? I even mailed my cancelation letter to 3 different addresses on the 3rd day and like I mentioned above emailed the president of this club (as he stated in her comment below). Not sure what else to do. 

The Vacation Club i bought into was the Occidental in Punta Cana, DR.

Thanks for your help!




OVC said:


> A letter from Mr. Luis Namnum, President of Occidental Vacation Club
> 
> My name is Luis Namnum, I’m the president of the Occidental Vacation Club. I have read with dismay some of the comments made on the TUG site. What some of you describe is not the company I run.  I would like the opportunity to answer and/or solve some of the issues.
> 
> *1. Cancellation Within Five Days-* Is healthy for both the buyer and the seller to allow for a reasonable cooling off period. Mexican law calls for 5 days. We are obliged not only to accept your cancellation but to refund as fast as possible (minus significant gifts we gave the buyer as a gift for buying). Is really bad business to keep a member that is not happy with the purchase for whatever reason.
> 
> We will make some changes in the procedure to include an e-mail address directly to my headquarters so that my corporate team can handle the cancellation request in addition to the sales site.
> 
> Furthermore, If any of the writers in this blog have this sort of issue, please send me a note (you have my e-mail address in the welcome kit) with a copy of the letter or anything else you tried to send cancelling within the five days, and will take care of it. I really don’t care how much time has passed.
> 
> *2. Lies from the sales staff: *Our policy is that if, at any time after purchase, we find that the sale was made under false pretenses, we cancel at the owners request with full refund. Ours is a good product, we don’t and should not need to lie to sell it.
> 
> We have in place mechanisms to cover all possible things a sales person can say on the sales table both with documents, training and supervision; but, given 'the face to face' nature of the sale, we are not able to cover all things. Nor, unfortunately, can we cover what the customer understood was being said.
> 
> The fact of the matter is that within a very short period of time whatever my staff promised is going to have to be delivered. If we cannot then the right and only thing to do is to refund and get rid of the staff member.
> 
> Our success depends on delivering on the product sold. We own most of the hotels, we are not going anywhere.
> 
> I urge any of the writers in this blog that felt that lies were used to sell you the membership, get in contact with me and lets solve this.
> 
> *3. How to Get Out:* We do not have a policy for this. We expect that members are going to honor the financial commitment they made in the promissory note. It is sometimes hard to explain that after the sale is processed the company has to incur in 100% of the cost related to the sale, costs that are much higher than the downpayment income. Like many other companies, we incur in these expenses based on the promise made by the customer to pay their bills.
> 
> But we also understand that things change and that what was affordable yesterday may not be today. Contact us with your individual case and we will work something out.
> 
> *4. Lowest Rate Guarantee:* Our members MUST pay a lower All Inclusive rate than anybody else using our hotels. Not only do we guarantee this, but our Rate Pledge states that if at any time a member finds a published rate lower than the one the booked with or used, we will not only match such a rate but will add on a 15% discount.
> 
> I probably have not answered all of the comments or have missed something, please write to me if I did and I will face it, take care of it or give you your money back.
> 
> Buying my product should not be a source of tension or unhappiness, and most important it should not make anyone feel that there is no recourse. Our club be a source of good stuff. If it's not, allow us to fix it, if we can’t, then it is fair to end the relationship with as few losses to each other as possible.
> 
> Luis Namnum
> President
> Occidental Vacation Club


----------



## Karen G

elmambo said:


> I've tried to contact Luis Namnum numerous times to no avail. He's even emailed me and copied (who I guess is) his assistant/coordinator and said that she would be in contact with me to take care of my request to cancel (since I was within the 5 day period); I've heard nothing since last week.
> 
> Can anyone recommend what my next step should be?



You could contact Profeco, the Mexican consumer protection agency, at  this website.

You could include a copy of Mr. Namnum's post and let them know what you have done and the emails you've sent at his request.  Also, contact your credit card company and notify them of your rescission of the contract.

Hopefully you'll hear back from Mr. Namnum soon and he'll make good on the promises he has made.  Let us know what happens.


----------



## elmambo

Thanks, Karen! I'll do that tomorrow if I don't hear back from them and report back.



Karen G said:


> You could contact Profeco, the Mexican consumer protection agency, at  this website.
> 
> You could include a copy of Mr. Namnum's post and let them know what you have done and the emails you've sent at his request.  Also, contact your credit card company and notify them of your rescission of the contract.
> 
> Hopefully you'll hear back from Mr. Namnum soon and he'll make good on the promises he has made.  Let us know what happens.


----------



## Passepartout

Karen, since the resort in question is in Dominican Republic, it's doubtful Profeco can help. In theory, at least, this person- concierge@occidentalvacationclub.com/ seems to have helped an earlier poster- at least to the point that s/he removed their post that was  (ahem) unkind to OVC.

Jim


----------



## elmambo

Thanks for the info as well, Jim - I went back a few pages and saw that interaction. I've sent the OVC user a private message and asked if they could look into my situation. We'll see what comes about. will keep you guys posted.

Thanks again.



Passepartout said:


> Karen, since the resort in question is in Dominican Republic, it's doubtful Profeco can help. In theory, at least, this person- concierge@occidentalvacationclub.com/ seems to have helped an earlier poster- at least to the point that s/he removed their post that was  (ahem) unkind to OVC.
> 
> Jim


----------



## Karen G

Passepartout said:


> Karen, since the resort in question is in Dominican Republic, it's doubtful Profeco can help.



Oops! Sorry about that.

I wonder, though, if the resort is part of a Mexican vacation club based on post #8 in this thread which shows a Playa del Carmen address.


----------



## Passepartout

elmambo said:


> Thanks for the info as well, Jim - I went back a few pages and saw that interaction. I've sent the OVC user a private message and asked if they could look into my situation. We'll see what comes about. will keep you guys posted.
> 
> Thanks again.



You might try the email contact. s/he hasn't been on TUG for a while and their issue was resolved. J


----------



## elmambo

I believe it is. When I originally sent Luis Namnum an email he specifically told me that his assistant or coordinator from his Mexican office would be in contact with me; and I specifically stated in my email that I had signed the contract in Punta Cana, DR. 



Karen G said:


> Oops! Sorry about that.
> 
> I wonder, though, if the resort is part of a Mexican vacation club based on post #8 in this thread which shows a Playa del Carmen address.


----------



## elmambo

Will do, thanks.





Passepartout said:


> You might try the email contact. s/he hasn't been on TUG for a while and their issue was resolved. J


----------



## OVC

elmambo said:


> Thanks for the info as well, Jim - I went back a few pages and saw that interaction. I've sent the OVC user a private message and asked if they could look into my situation. We'll see what comes about. will keep you guys posted.
> 
> Thanks again.



Hello there! Sorry it took us awhile to get your message. We'll look into it know. However, please feel free to email us at concierge@occidentalvacationclub.com.

IT


----------



## elmambo

Thanks for your attention on this. I did send an email as well. I'll wait for a reply.



OVC said:


> Hello there! Sorry it took us awhile to get your message. We'll look into it know. However, please feel free to email us at concierge@occidentalvacationclub.com.
> 
> IT


----------



## elmambo

*Quick update on my issue...*

Hey folks, just a quick update on this. Since posting here and getting the contact information, the Vacation Club administrators have been in regular communication with me via email (almost all day today) and they've just finalized my cancellation documentation and sent it over for my review. All looks good. 

I'll be sending all my paperwork in and expect to get my refund (minus a few bucks for some of the services that were used - fair point on their end) within the next couple of weeks.

I post this to 1) Thank you guys for the help..thank you! and 2) To give credit where credit is due...Luis Namnum, OVC and the folks on the admin side of this company for making things right. Granted...this is still NOT 100% complete...but, I will update again once the refund part is finalized to close the loop on my situation with the club.

Thanks again for those of you who responded to my posts!!


----------



## Karen G

Great news,  elmambo. Thanks for letting us know!


----------



## OccidentalDUD

[_Post text removed at request of Original Poster.  This is required by Occidental Vacation Club as a condition of settlement._  -- Makai Guy, TUG BBS Administrator]


----------



## elmambo

I would send an email directly to concierge@occidentalvacationclub.com with the details on your issue. They were able to look into my situation and get things moving. You should also want to copy the club's president on your email since he seems to make himself involved and looks to right any wrongs there may have been.

Good luck!



OccidentalDUD said:


> Hi all I am new to this website so my apologies if I don't reply correctly. My husband and I are in a really awful situation. Back in may we purchased into the OCCIDENTAL VACATION CLUB. Once we got home and found this website we did everything in our power to rescind our contract. On the 5th day which our contract states, we sent out a certified letter postmarked to all the offices staying our cancellation. We also sent emails stating our problem. This was where our problem happened. The sales rep called us and convinced us that we should keep the club because we can sell our weeks to help supplement the cost.  He even gave us a contact phone number to a Sean Stacy. We called and this guy guaranteed the same. So we emailed back saying ok we will keep it. Now it's been months and Sean Stacy no longer exists. Well what we found out was that they sent us to another fraudulent person. This company is I trouble for, fraud, money laundering, and identity theft. Now does anyone really want to do business with either of these companies. So now we just received our recipe claiming that they received our cancellation. But the sales guys is claiming our email stands. According to profeco, that is not a valid form of communication. We cancelled the card that we put the deposit on and called fraud on that charge. We have not been able to get I touch with anybody in the company besides the sales rep who I know won't do anything. Can someone please help. This company OCCIDENTAL VACATION CLUB lied to us and then put us in direct contact with another fraudulent company. We are opening a case with profeco and have all the emails from the rep saying we can sell our weeks which was a lie does anyone have anymore advice.


----------



## DeniseM

OccidentalDUD:  you already rescinded and you already got your money back, so WHY are you repeating yourself in a different thread?

Sent from my BNTV400 using Tapatalk


----------



## OccidentalDUD

Denise, I am sorry for repeating myself.  I am just really worried. And technically I didn't get the check back and it has not cleared. You know these people are shady. Don't you think it's possible that they can stop payment?  Also like I mentioned yesterday the mortgage is still open. Why wouldn't everything happen at once? They are claiming that the email stands. Also I a, just repeating in other threads to just get more options and advice. I don't know how long to wait, what to do, who is next to contact. And the sales rep is bullying us now saying it's going to go to collections. We don't know who else to contact.  Sorry


----------



## Karen G

OccidentalDUD said:


> And technically I didn't get the check back and it has not cleared.


Did you pay by check or credit card? You said in the other thread that your credit card company told you that the charge had been reversed. If there is a check floating around out there somewhere call the bank and stop payment on it.


----------



## OccidentalDUD

Hi Karen yes.  I paid off the card and closed it before they credited us back. What I think happened was I started a fraud case and the potential rescission went through. I randomly called to make sure the card was closed and they said I had negative balance of the deposit I made. Sine the card is closed they asked if I wanted a check for the refund which I am waiting for. This all happened bc the sales guys was saying we couldn't really rescind so we paid it off and then saw they hadn't even received our certified letter.  There is a lot of time lapse and confusion. Maybe that is why I am worried. [Comment redacted per agreement with developer] so we sent an email. On the same day we mailed the certified letter.  According to profeco website it says email is not a valid form of communication so we are hoping that the certified letter stands.


----------



## DeniseM

If the credit card company said they will send you a check, they will.  That is the last thing I'd worry about.  

At this point, you need to take a deep breath, stop contacting people at Occidental, and give this some time to unwind.  Continuing to have contact with Occidental only leaves the door open for more problems - just like it did when they talked you out of rescinding the first time.  You have been your own worst enemy in this situation.

If you have NEW info. to post, feel free to do so, but please don't start any new threads, and please don't repost your original story again - that doesn't accomplish anything.


----------



## OVC

OccidentalDUD said:


> Hi Karen yes.  I paid off the card and closed it before they credited us back. What I think happened was I started a fraud case and the potential rescission went through. I randomly called to make sure the card was closed and they said I had negative balance of the deposit I made. Sine the card is closed they asked if I wanted a check for the refund which I am waiting for. This all happened bc the sales guys was saying we couldn't really rescind so we paid it off and then saw they hadn't even received our certified letter.  There is a lot of time lapse and confusion. Maybe that is why I am worried. The sales guy bullied us into keeping so we sent an email. On the same day we mailed the certified letter.  According to profeco website it says email is not a valid form of communication so we are hoping that the certified letter stands.



Hello there! If there's still a pending issue with the Club, please contact us at concierge@occidentalvacationclub.com to take a look at your account.

Regards!

IT


----------



## OccidentalDUD

So as of now we are waiting for a response from the club. Unfortunetly they are connecting us back to Greta at the playa del Carmen office.  [Comment redacted per agreement with developer]  There must be some sort of confusion on their end since they credited our deposit back but did not close out the mortgage account. Let's see where this goes


----------



## OccidentalDUD

[_Post text removed at request of Original Poster.  This is required by the developer as a condition of settlement._  -- Makai Guy, TUG BBS Administrator]


----------



## OccidentalDUD

DeniseM said:


> OccidentalDUD:  you already rescinded and you already got your money back, so WHY are you repeating yourself in a different thread?
> 
> Sent from my BNTV400 using Tapatalk


 The office is claiming our contract is still in full affect and that if we don't make a payment we will be going to collections.  Someone in their office clearly credited us but not sure what's next


----------



## DeniseM

OccidentalDUD said:


> The office is claiming our contract is still in full affect and that if we don't make a payment we will be going to collections.  Someone in their office clearly credited us but not sure what's next



They are still trying to bully you.  If you make the payment, your will void your rescission - stop contacting them.


----------



## OccidentalDUD

DeniseM said:


> They are still trying to bully you.  If you make the payment, your will void your rescission - stop contacting them.



We did make one payment already. But that is all we made. And that is before we ever got the recipt that they received our certified letter. Also we received our deposit back on the cc after that payment was made. We filed fraud charges on that first payment we made on the mortgage. I was speaking with Ignaura from OVC from here and she is the one now putting us in contact with Greta at the playa office where all this nonsense is going down.  I just don't understand why I should stop contacting them. Our contract is still open.  I don't want to wait for this to go to collections.  And when it does then what am I supposed to do?


----------



## OccidentalDUD

So great news! We got our cancellation contract.  After emailing the company and then cc the president of the company, he made it literally happen the next day. We are out and have all of our money back.  Thanks everyone for all your help.


----------



## Ty1on

OccidentalDUD said:


> So great news! We got our cancellation contract.  After emailing the company and then cc the president of the company, he made it literally happen the next day. We are out and have all of our money back.  Thanks everyone for all your help.



Congrats.  Gotta give this company credit where credit is due.  It might take some hassle to get it done, but even that won't help get a lot of contracts cancelled.


----------



## Passepartout

OccidentalDUD said:


> So great news! We got our cancellation contract.  After emailing the company and then cc the president of the company, he made it literally happen the next day. We are out and have all of our money back.  Thanks everyone for all your help.



O'DUD(e), you got lucky. Stay away from timeshare presentations- especially Mexican ones.

Jim


----------



## melissaj

*Timeshare Scam*

I bought a timeshare and it was one of the worst financial mistakes I ever made. I never intended to buy it, but I cannot suckered into going to a presentation to get free show tickets. The high-pressure sales person convinced me to sign on the dotted line, and I ended up with a timeshare. It was one of the hardest things to get rid of, and I lost about $20,000 in the process. It was an expensive lesson learned.


----------



## ezgoer101

I wish I would have found this site sooner. I was suckered into buying a package after given many alcoholic drinks including a bottle of cheap champagne. I received an upgraded room after I signed. What they don't tell you is when you accept the room you won't be able to cancel. They told me so much about what a great deal it is but leave out the most important part. The only people who contact me are the same sharks who sold it to me. They tell me there's no way out and offer a cheaper deal. I just want out of the contract and $5900 refunded. I sent an email to the address from the previous post. Hopefully that gets me somewhere. I'll keep ya posted.


----------



## ezgoer101

So far I received no email back. The presidents email address is no longer valid.....Anybody have any other options?


----------



## Karen G

ezgoer101 said:


> Anybody have any other options?


Have you filed a complaint with Profeco?


----------



## ezgoer101

I bought the package in DR.


----------



## Nursed46

My husband and I also were scammed by Occidental Vacation Club and tried calling Greta at Playa del Carmen to get this membership cancelled.  We left several messages and never received a call back and have also emailed Greta and finally received an email back.  We have told her we want our membership cancelled immediately since what they told us was not true and honest.  I wish I would have done my homework before we bought this and feel really stupid for falling for this con.  I am hoping that the OVC that reads this site will help me close out my account because we have already closed the credit card and are disputing the charges.  We are sending a letter to Profecto and will pray for the best.  I have seen some good comments but most of the comments have been very negative.  If you have any suggestions I welcome any and all.  Please help!!I don't want to have to email 20 people back and forth or hire a lawyer to fight this because I am not going to pay them any money.


----------



## Nursed46

*Help me cancel my contract if what you are saying is true Mr. Luis Namnum*

If this is true Mr. Luis Namnum then my contract needs to be canceled immediately since we were lied to and the salesmen were dishonest.


A letter from Mr. Luis Namnum, President of Occidental

My name is Luis Namnum, I’m the president of the Occidental Vacation Club. I have read with dismay some of the comments made on the TUG site. What some of you describe is not the company I run.  I would like the opportunity to answer and/or solve some of the issues.

*1. Cancellation Within Five Days-* Is healthy for both the buyer and the seller to allow for a reasonable cooling off period. Mexican law calls for 5 days. We are obliged not only to accept your cancellation but to refund as fast as possible (minus significant gifts we gave the buyer as a gift for buying). Is really bad business to keep a member that is not happy with the purchase for whatever reason.

We will make some changes in the procedure to include an e-mail address directly to my headquarters so that my corporate team can handle the cancellation request in addition to the sales site.

Furthermore, If any of the writers in this blog have this sort of issue, please send me a note (you have my e-mail address in the welcome kit) with a copy of the letter or anything else you tried to send cancelling within the five days, and will take care of it. I really don’t care how much time has passed.

*2. Lies from the sales staff: *Our policy is that if, at any time after purchase, we find that the sale was made under false pretenses, we cancel at the owners request with full refund. Ours is a good product, we don’t and should not need to lie to sell it.  

We have in place mechanisms to cover all possible things a sales person can say on the sales table both with documents, training and supervision; but, given 'the face to face' nature of the sale, we are not able to cover all things. Nor, unfortunately, can we cover what the customer understood was being said.

The fact of the matter is that within a very short period of time whatever my staff promised is going to have to be delivered. If we cannot then the right and only thing to do is to refund and get rid of the staff member.

Our success depends on delivering on the product sold. We own most of the hotels, we are not going anywhere.

I urge any of the writers in this blog that felt that lies were used to sell you the membership, get in contact with me and lets solve this.

*3. How to Get Out:* We do not have a policy for this. We expect that members are going to honor the financial commitment they made in the promissory note. It is sometimes hard to explain that after the sale is processed the company has to incur in 100% of the cost related to the sale, costs that are much higher than the downpayment income. Like many other companies, we incur in these expenses based on the promise made by the customer to pay their bills.

But we also understand that things change and that what was affordable yesterday may not be today. Contact us with your individual case and we will work something out.

*4. Lowest Rate Guarantee:* Our members MUST pay a lower All Inclusive rate than anybody else using our hotels. Not only do we guarantee this, but our Rate Pledge states that if at any time a member finds a published rate lower than the one the booked with or used, we will not only match such a rate but will add on a 15% discount.

I probably have not answered all of the comments or have missed something, please write to me if I did and I will face it, take care of it or give you your money back.

Buying my product should not be a source of tension or unhappiness, and most important it should not make anyone feel that there is no recourse. Our club be a source of good stuff. If it's not, allow us to fix it, if we can’t, then it is fair to end the relationship with as few losses to each other as possible.

Luis Namnum
President
Occidental Vacation Club[/QUOTE]


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## OVC

Hello, please email us at concierge@occidentalvacationclub.com. Don't forget to include your contract number and the dates/resort where you bought your membership, so that we are able to locate your account and take a look at your situation. 

Regards,

IT



Nursed46 said:


> If this is true Mr. Luis Namnum then my contract needs to be canceled immediately since we were lied to and the salesmen were dishonest.
> 
> 
> A letter from Mr. Luis Namnum, President of Occidental
> 
> My name is Luis Namnum, I’m the president of the Occidental Vacation Club. I have read with dismay some of the comments made on the TUG site. What some of you describe is not the company I run.  I would like the opportunity to answer and/or solve some of the issues.
> 
> *1. Cancellation Within Five Days-* Is healthy for both the buyer and the seller to allow for a reasonable cooling off period. Mexican law calls for 5 days. We are obliged not only to accept your cancellation but to refund as fast as possible (minus significant gifts we gave the buyer as a gift for buying). Is really bad business to keep a member that is not happy with the purchase for whatever reason.
> 
> We will make some changes in the procedure to include an e-mail address directly to my headquarters so that my corporate team can handle the cancellation request in addition to the sales site.
> 
> Furthermore, If any of the writers in this blog have this sort of issue, please send me a note (you have my e-mail address in the welcome kit) with a copy of the letter or anything else you tried to send cancelling within the five days, and will take care of it. I really don’t care how much time has passed.
> 
> *2. Lies from the sales staff: *Our policy is that if, at any time after purchase, we find that the sale was made under false pretenses, we cancel at the owners request with full refund. Ours is a good product, we don’t and should not need to lie to sell it.
> 
> We have in place mechanisms to cover all possible things a sales person can say on the sales table both with documents, training and supervision; but, given 'the face to face' nature of the sale, we are not able to cover all things. Nor, unfortunately, can we cover what the customer understood was being said.
> 
> The fact of the matter is that within a very short period of time whatever my staff promised is going to have to be delivered. If we cannot then the right and only thing to do is to refund and get rid of the staff member.
> 
> Our success depends on delivering on the product sold. We own most of the hotels, we are not going anywhere.
> 
> I urge any of the writers in this blog that felt that lies were used to sell you the membership, get in contact with me and lets solve this.
> 
> *3. How to Get Out:* We do not have a policy for this. We expect that members are going to honor the financial commitment they made in the promissory note. It is sometimes hard to explain that after the sale is processed the company has to incur in 100% of the cost related to the sale, costs that are much higher than the downpayment income. Like many other companies, we incur in these expenses based on the promise made by the customer to pay their bills.
> 
> But we also understand that things change and that what was affordable yesterday may not be today. Contact us with your individual case and we will work something out.
> 
> *4. Lowest Rate Guarantee:* Our members MUST pay a lower All Inclusive rate than anybody else using our hotels. Not only do we guarantee this, but our Rate Pledge states that if at any time a member finds a published rate lower than the one the booked with or used, we will not only match such a rate but will add on a 15% discount.
> 
> I probably have not answered all of the comments or have missed something, please write to me if I did and I will face it, take care of it or give you your money back.
> 
> Buying my product should not be a source of tension or unhappiness, and most important it should not make anyone feel that there is no recourse. Our club be a source of good stuff. If it's not, allow us to fix it, if we can’t, then it is fair to end the relationship with as few losses to each other as possible.
> 
> Luis Namnum
> President
> Occidental Vacation Club


[/QUOTE]


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## Nursed46

Ty1on said:


> Congrats.  Gotta give this company credit where credit is due.  It might take some hassle to get it done, but even that won't help get a lot of contracts cancelled.



How did you make it happen and do you have the Presidents email address?  I have got to get out of my contract.


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## Karen G

Nursed46 said:


> How did you make it happen and do you have the Presidents email address?  I have got to get out of my contract.


See post #138 above:
Hello, please email us at concierge@occidentalvacationclub.com. Don't forget to include your contract number and the dates/resort where you bought your membership, so that we are able to locate your account and take a look at your situation.


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## Nursed46

*OVC*

I did contact that email and they told me they really couldn't help me so I have contacted Greta Sachez at OVC.  I am working to get this solved.


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## Ljayae

*Started my Cancel process within my 5 days*

These posts have given me hope. I got suckered in, came home and started reading my options. I've sent my certified letters 2 of them in fact. 1 to the address in the contract and 1 to the resort where I purchased. I also emailed a copy to the sales person, operations manager, customer service manager and copied Perfeco. Should I dispute with my card or just wait the 15 days out to see if they do the right thing? The Operations Manager is Jennifer Erosa Sonda.


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## Karen G

Ljayae said:


> Should I dispute with my card or just wait the 15 days out to see if they do the right thing? The Operations Manager is Jennifer Erosa Sonda.


I think I'd go ahead and notify the credit card people right away. Nothing to lose by trying and it would put them on notice that you've rescinded your contract.

Glad you found TUG in time to rescind. Let us know what happens.


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## Ljayae

Karen G said:


> I think I'd go ahead and notify the credit card people right away. Nothing to lose by trying and it would put them on notice that you've rescinded your contract.
> 
> Glad you found TUG in time to rescind. Let us know what happens.




Thanks. I have started that process. I did get a call from the salesman today as he got word from the email I sent yesterday that I wanted to cancel. He tried a few things to change my mind from lets price a vacation so I can show you what you will save, to waiving maintenance for more years. I stood my ground and said no. At the end he asked what else can I do. I said continue with my cancellation, provide confirmation of that, along with my refund. He advised they are going to work on it. So here's to hoping they will keep their word on that.


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## Karen G

Glad they are working on your rescission. Stay strong!


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## Tuzo

Ljayae said:


> Thanks. I have started that process. I did get a call from the salesman today as he got word from the email I sent yesterday that I wanted to cancel. He tried a few things to change my mind from lets price a vacation so I can show you what you will save, to waiving maintenance for more years. I stood my ground and said no. At the end he asked what else can I do. I said continue with my cancellation, provide confirmation of that, along with my refund. He advised they are going to work on it. So here's to hoping they will keep their word on that.




Hello, I bought a OCV in March 2017.  Very good sales people, very good alcohol, very beautiful resort Xcaret. I put half down payment. Suffered buyers regret that evening.  There is a 5 day cooling off period in the contract.  Even if sales people tell you that you can not cancel, it is not true.  I sent a registered letter within the 5 days that they had to sign for.  This is extremely important to do - make them sign otherwise they could say they didn't receive.  Shortly thereafter, their salesperson sent me an email saying I could not cancel but OCV would rewrite another contract for me.  Then my lawyer sent a letter explaining Mexican law, that the contract says that I  was to be refunded as per the contract.  After that, OCV started the refund process and I received the full refund.  Somewhat stressful. Very stressful at times - everytime I thought about how much money I stood to loose.  A good lesson learned overall.


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## LannyPC

Tuzo said:


> Shortly thereafter, their salesperson sent me an email saying I could not cancel but OCV would rewrite another contract for me....



Which is why we TUGgers usually suggest to people (usually newbies) who come on these boards wondering about rescinding, to not:

1) Take any unknown phone calls as this could be the people at the resort telling you that you can't rescind, yadda, yadda, yadda.
2) Go to the sales office to try to rescind for the same reason as number 1.  Besides, that's not the method stipulated in the contract anyway.
3) Call the resort because you are wondering if they received the letter or when your refund might come.

Good for you for rescinding in time using the proper method and not falling for that line they tried to feed you.


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## Tuzo

Hello all who wish to rescind their OVC contract, this is what worked for me (but I really suggest that you immediately go to your lawyer back home and have them do this for you!).
Read the contract carefully (as hard as that is because of the legal jargon DO IT!)- you have 5 Mexican business days to rescind, so that does not include Saturday or Sunday.  You MUST do it in writing and look very carefully for the address the contract tells you to send the written and signed rescind.  Do it by registered mail so they have to sign for it and you have a paper trail of when you sent and when they signed.  There are websites, including this one, that tell you what to include in your rescind letter - all very formal language.  I sent three letters: one from Mexico, regular mail but time-stamped, and two from Canada, one time stamped regular, the other registered mail, so I knew when they received it.  All within the 5 rescind days (phew - bought Tuesday in Cozumel, Mexico and sent letters back in Canada on the following Monday).  Then OCV contacted me, by phone and email, to tell me that I can not rescind and that I verbally waived my rights, but they did not use their official email to do this. It needs to be written down folks. Then I went to my lawyer.  The lawyer's office sent a letter, registered mail, ''the representation was not confirmed in writing and the right of cancellation was not removed from the contract ...Please be advised that if a full refund is not received within 10 business days, we will retain local counsel to sue to recover the money."  And I received the full refund minus the costs of the 'gifts'.  Make sure that part is in your rescind letter too.  OCV will follow the law; they have to, don't they.  But so do us, the consumers.  And I suspect that 'businesses' like OCV rely on consumers not doing their due diligence.  I reiterate, the best thing to do is immediately go to your lawyer and have them deal with this.  I hope this helps.


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## Tuzo

Passepartout said:


> No secret that they and a whole lot of other Mexican TS outfits lie like rugs. Nothing they promise is in the contract. I feel certain that eventually you will get what they took from you, but it will be neither quick nor easy.
> 
> Best wishes and keep us informed as this progresses. We LOVE to hear success stories from people who rescind in time. Congratulations!
> 
> Jim Ricks


Hello all who wish to rescind their OVC contract, this is what worked for me (but I really suggest that you immediately go to your lawyer back home and have them do this for you!).
Read the contract carefully (as hard as that is because of the legal jargon DO IT!)- you have 5 Mexican business days to rescind, so that does not include Saturday or Sunday.  You MUST do it in writing and look very carefully for the address the contract tells you to send the written and signed rescind.  Do it by registered mail so they have to sign for it and you have a paper trail of when you sent and when they signed.  There are websites, including this one, that tell you what to include in your rescind letter - all very formal language.  I sent three letters: one from Mexico, regular mail but time-stamped, and two from Canada, one time stamped regular, the other registered mail, so I knew when they received it.  All within the 5 rescind days (phew - bought Tuesday in Cozumel, Mexico and sent letters back in Canada on the following Monday).  Then OCV contacted me, by phone and email, to tell me that I can not rescind and that I verbally waived my rights, but they did not use their official email to do this. It needs to be written down folks. Then I went to my lawyer.  The lawyer's office sent a letter, registered mail, ''the representation was not confirmed in writing and the right of cancellation was not removed from the contract ...Please be advised that if a full refund is not received within 10 business days, we will retain local counsel to sue to recover the money."  And I received the full refund minus the costs of the 'gifts'.  Make sure that part is in your rescind letter too.  OCV will follow the law; they have to, don't they.  But so do us, the consumers.  And I suspect that 'businesses' like OCV rely on consumers not doing their due diligence.  I reiterate, the best thing to do is immediately go to your lawyer and have them deal with this.  I hope this helps.


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## slakad

Did you get money bck in the end?


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## Tuzo

slakad said:


> Did you get money bck in the end?


Yes, all of it. Minus the payment for the gifts, which was written in the contract.  And two hours worth of lawyers fees here.  It was the letter from my lawyer threatening to sue which I believed worked.  Please ask other questions.  I can show the letters that were written if this helps anyone.


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## slakad

Tuzo said:


> Yes, all of it. Minus the payment for the gifts, which was written in the contract.  And two hours worth of lawyers fees here.  It was the letter from my lawyer threatening to sue which I believed worked.  Please ask other questions.  I can show the letters that were written if this helps anyone.


Yes please can i see the letter?

Also did u have to sign a contract release form? can i see that too please if possible?


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