# Timeshare Traveler Episode 59... Are HGV Max Premier Benefits Worth It?



## Clifbell (May 24, 2022)

Everyone tries to sell you on getting status benefits.  As a result of the Diamond International merger, I decided that I should have more points so I could stay at more of the new resort options after the merger.  And as a result I became a Premier member (formerly Elite Plus).  The Biggest benefit for the Premier level is space available free upgrades.  It has been 8+ months since I upgraded and I wanted to share what has happened.

In this Video I walk you through the upgrades I have received, how many points these additional upgrades would have cost me, and the amount of additional maintenance fees I would have needed without the upgrades.   Hope you find it useful.

The bottom line is that I have had three upgrades.  The value in the upgrades has been the equivalent of 21,760 points in less than a year.  This is over half of my annual allotment of 40,800 points...  This is worth over $3K in maintenance fees.  Hard to say if this will continue, but wow this is really great.  Certainly more than I expected.

Timeshare Traveler Episode 59... Are HGV Max Premier Benefits Worth It?

Map of all my timeshare reviews


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## Nowaker (May 24, 2022)

Props for using proper maths and reasoning! 50% room upgrade rate is really a big success.

How much did you pay for how many extra points exactly? (after accounting for "tradeins") And what was your overall MFpp - both before and after upgrade?

I'd like to compare it side by side with an alternative approach of purchasing HGVC Scotland properties - which also grants Elite points (but there's no "tradeins").


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## brp (May 24, 2022)

Thanks for doing this. Prior to watching the video I'll pose one thought/question: Was the upgrade necessarily meaningful? And by that I mean - is this something that you *would* have paid for making the savings concrete.

As an example, we often book a 1BR in Hawaii. If we were upgraded to a 2BR, that would be meaningless as we do not need/would not use the space. Same with a Studio Premier to 1BR Premier at W 57th. Having done a 1BR there (albeit not a Premier, so not as good a view(, we didn't use the space and subsequently changed future 1BR bookings for Studio Premier.

So, in calculating the "value" of the upgrade, the question of whether you would have actually paid for this becomes relevant to deciding the "worth" IMO.

Cheers.


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## GT75 (May 24, 2022)

brp said:


> Was the upgrade necessarily meaningful?


Exactly my thoughts also.    I think that HGVC upgrades have to be in the same room class, like a 1BR booked must remain a 1BR.    I will also add that someone shouldn't expect to receive upgrades for popular resorts or at popular times of the year.    This must only work during the off-season.    If this is the case, there is a reason that is off-season.   In all of my years, I have NEVER received an upgrade at HGVC.

I would also like to know from the OP when you found out that you were upgraded?


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## dioxide45 (May 24, 2022)

GT75 said:


> Exactly my thoughts also.    I think that HGVC upgrades have to be in the same room class, like a 1BR booked must remain a 1BR.    I will also add that someone shouldn't expect to receive upgrades for popular resorts or at popular times of the year.    This must only work during the off-season.    If this is the case, there is a reason that is off-season.   In all of my years, I have NEVER received an upgrade at HGVC.
> 
> I would also like to know from the OP when you found out that you were upgraded?


I think Cliff has reported upgrades from a 1BR to a 2BR, but in thinking about if they are meaningful, does an upgrade to a 2BR matter if you are a solo traveler or traveling as a couple?


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## HuskerATL (May 24, 2022)

dioxide45 said:


> I think Cliff has reported upgrades from a 1BR to a 2BR, but in thinking about if they are meaningful, does an upgrade to a 2BR matter if you are a solo traveler or traveling as a couple?


Depends on how well you treated your wife during the day....


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## HuskerATL (May 24, 2022)

Nowaker said:


> Props for using proper maths and reasoning! 50% room upgrade rate is really a big success.
> 
> How much did you pay for how many extra points exactly? (after accounting for "tradeins") And what was your overall MFpp - both before and after upgrade?
> 
> I'd like to compare it side by side with an alternative approach of purchasing HGVC Scotland properties - which also grants Elite points (but there's no "tradeins").


According to the video, he bought 16k points at $2/point so about $32k.  That is about as much as I have paid for all of my points combined, about 70k, and about half that cost is my only retail property and I am Elite Premier so if the desire is to up your Elite status to improve your chances for upgrades then the Scotland points would be a cheaper move.  Now, the next question would be how those would be counted in Max if someone went that route.  I assume that if they count for Elite, they should count for Max Tiers...but who knows.


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## Nowaker (May 24, 2022)

brp said:


> So, in calculating the "value" of the upgrade, the question of whether you would have actually paid for this becomes relevant to deciding the "worth" IMO.



This depends. "Value" has different contexts.

There's "value" in financial terms, to understand if you're making a sound financial decision, and what the ROI is. If room upgrades is the main reason for getting Elite, then yes, that's how you should calculate the "value" - to understand your ROI. For example, I have Amex Hilton Aspire and pay $450 annual fee for it. I get $250 in MFs back, and 1 free night certificate (which I value at ~$200 and NOT $500 as this is what I'd spend for a night), and $250 in airline incidentals credit (which I value at $50 because the beer I get for $250 is worth $50 in a store - and that's the only place where I get my beer - not bars). If you wouldn't pay for it, it has no value. 

There's "value" in terms of "using what you already have". For example, my Amex Hilton Aspire gets me free room upgrades through Diamond status. I wouldn't pay for the upgrade. But when I get a room upgrade from Studio 2 Queen to 1 BR 2 Queen with View, which would cost me $135, then this is my "value".


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## Clifbell (May 24, 2022)

brp said:


> Thanks for doing this. Prior to watching the video I'll pose one thought/question: Was the upgrade necessarily meaningful? And by that I mean - is this something that you *would* have paid for making the savings concrete.
> 
> As an example, we often book a 1BR in Hawaii. If we were upgraded to a 2BR, that would be meaningless as we do not need/would not use the space. Same with a Studio Premier to 1BR Premier at W 57th. Having done a 1BR there (albeit not a Premier, so not as good a view(, we didn't use the space and subsequently changed future 1BR bookings for Studio Premier.
> 
> ...


Two were definitely wanted.  I invited my brother for one and I had another guest for the other... We could have fit in the one bedroom in those cases but it would have been crowded in the sense of waking up someone sleeping in the living room to make coffee.  In the one case it didn't matter... Now that I have a sense of what is possible, I will check with the staff a few weeks before.  It would have been possible to have a friend join me for the one that didn't matter.... Now that I understand how it works, I will do more to take advantage of it.  At this point, I was trying to validate how much it was working.

Your point is very valid.


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## Clifbell (May 25, 2022)

Nowaker said:


> This depends. "Value" has different contexts.
> 
> There's "value" in financial terms, to understand if you're making a sound financial decision, and what the ROI is. If room upgrades is the main reason for getting Elite, then yes, that's how you should calculate the "value" - to understand your ROI. For example, I have Amex Hilton Aspire and pay $450 annual fee for it. I get $250 in MFs back, and 1 free night certificate (which I value at ~$200 and NOT $500 as this is what I'd spend for a night), and $250 in airline incidentals credit (which I value at $50 because the beer I get for $250 is worth $50 in a store - and that's the only place where I get my beer - not bars). If you wouldn't pay for it, it has no value.
> 
> There's "value" in terms of "using what you already have". For example, my Amex Hilton Aspire gets me free room upgrades through Diamond status. I wouldn't pay for the upgrade. But when I get a room upgrade from Studio 2 Queen to 1 BR 2 Queen with View, which would cost me $135, then this is my "value".


I agree with your logic and I think of it similarly.... I was surprised after getting others opinions in a prior post about how often I would get an upgrade.  I do have to say that I appreciate getting the upgrades and it opens up possibilities I had not considered.  It is not a hard "value".  I am also glad I upgraded my resale because the points are good with HGV max.  But don't yet know how to put a value on it.  

I think someone said it is a matter of what matters to you...

The bottom line is that Hilton exceeded my expectations and I am really happy about it.


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## Nowaker (May 25, 2022)

@Clifbell Could you answer this question? How much did you pay for how many extra points exactly? (after accounting for "tradeins") And what was your overall MFpp - both before and after upgrade? I'd like to compare it to HGVC Scotland.


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## WORLD TRAVELER (May 25, 2022)

Hi





Clifbell said:


> Two were definitely wanted.  I invited my brother for one and I had another guest for the other... We could have fit in the one bedroom in those cases but it would have been crowded in the sense of waking up someone sleeping in the living room to make coffee.  In the one case it didn't matter... Now that I have a sense of what is possible, I will check with the staff a few weeks before.  It would have been possible to have a friend join me for the one that didn't matter.... Now that I understand how it works, I will do more to take advantage of it.  At this point, I was trying to validate how much it was working.
> 
> Your point is very valid.


As I've seen from other Facebook posts, it seems the upgrades are last minute, usually found out at check-in.  I noticed one lady posted that she had reserved a 1 bedroom premier at the Grand Islander and when she went to check-in, she was told that an upgrade was available and she would be upgraded to a 2 bedroom penthouse with access to the penthouse lounge.  I don't know if you called weeks in advance, that you would know if you would be upgraded or not.

Please let us know if you have success in finding out in advance if you would be upgraded.


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## Clifbell (May 25, 2022)

Nowaker said:


> @Clifbell Could you answer this question? How much did you pay for how many extra points exactly? (after accounting for "tradeins") And what was your overall MFpp - both before and after upgrade? I'd like to compare it to HGVC Scotland.


I bought a resale 7K deed (prior to the 1.6 multiplier) for $7K.  This got upgraded for $25K to 10.2K points... My $2/point calculation was to multiply the 10.2 K points by 1.6 and rounded it at 16K points... $7K plus 25K = $32K or $2/point in the new point system.  I did not factor in the 19.2K bonus points(post 1.6 multiplier) into the cost calculation.

Hope that is what you wanted.


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## Clifbell (May 25, 2022)

WORLD TRAVELER said:


> Hi
> As I've seen from other Facebook posts, it seems the upgrades are last minute, usually found out at check-in.  I noticed one lady posted that she had reserved a 1 bedroom premier at the Grand Islander and when she went to check-in, she was told that an upgrade was available and she would be upgraded to a 2 bedroom penthouse with access to the penthouse lounge.  I don't know if you called weeks in advance, that you would know if you would be upgraded or not.
> 
> Please let us know if you have success in finding out in advance if you would be upgraded.


I was told I could have checked in advance.  The upgrade in Myrtle beach from a studio to a one bedroom was know several weeks in advance which was when I invited my brother.  I asked for a two bedroom at checkin.  I was told they don't update the reservation as that is what you booked.  But you  can call in advance to check on the upgrade.. Like I said before, I am a rookie at this.  Wanted to post the video to have these conversations and also figure out how to gain from the upgrades and get the full value of the upgrades.


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## alwysonvac (May 25, 2022)

Clifbell said:


> I bought a resale 7K deed (prior to the 1.6 multiplier) for $7K.  This got upgraded for $25K to 10.2K points.*.. My $2/point calculation was to multiply the 10.2 K points **by 1.6 *and rounded it at 16K points... $7K plus 25K = $32K or $2/point in the new point system.  I did not factor in the 19.2K bonus points(post 1.6 multiplier) into the cost calculation.
> 
> Hope that is what you wanted.


You should leave out the 1.6 multiplier. You didn’t gain more points. It was a conversion.
Your total cost was $3 point as you reported in your post last year (see below).




Clifbell said:


> Just an FYI, I was given an upgrade from a one bedroom to the two bedroom as part of an upgrade... My real cost for this two bedroom was 3400 points.  But for the video I used the Points it would have cost.
> 
> I agree with the people who say Bay Club or King's Land is a better point value.  *FYI, I updated my resale purchase to developer credits for $25K.  **My total cost to go from Elite to Elite Plus for $30K or $3/point*.... While that was still more than buying resale, I believe over a 5 year period, the upgrades will make it cheaper than buying resale based on my calculations.  One of the reason I also upgraded was to hopefully benefit from Diamond International's purchase although I have no hard facts for this decision.  I also got 12,000 bonus credits for the upgrade (I valued that at $4k).  The upgrade i just received was worth $3K as a best guess (9K point difference).  As a result of this, my upgrade really was $20K not the $27 (including closing costs).


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## alwysonvac (May 25, 2022)

Clifbell said:


> …..*The bottom line is that I have had three upgrades.* The value in the upgrades has been the equivalent of 21,760 points in less than a year. This is over half of my annual allotment of 40,800 points... This is worth over $3K in maintenance fees. Hard to say if this will continue, but wow this is really great. Certainly more than I expected.



So you have now have a total of 25,500 ClubPoints (prior to the conversion).
But what did it truly cost since most of your purchases were from the developer? What is your total of out pocket cost (excluding all fees) ?

*Please state resort, club points without the 1.6 multiplier, and actual amount paid. *

Original Developer purchase - *paid? for which resort and how many points?*
Developer Upgrade # 1 - *paid? for which resort and how many points? Bonus Points?*
Developer Upgrade # 2 - *paid? for which resort and how many points? Bonus Points?*
Resale Purchase  - *paid $5k? for 7,000 ClubPoints? at which resort?*
Developer Upgrade #3 - *paid $25k** with Resale trade-in for 10,200 ClubPoints at which resort? Received 12,000 Bonus points.*


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## Clifbell (May 25, 2022)

alwysonvac said:


> You should leave out the 1.6 multiplier. You didn’t gain more points. It was a conversion.
> Your total cost was $3 point as you reported in your post last year (see below).


I have started to use the new point values since it is now what new people will be using...  Yes, it was $3 with the old point values.  Sorry for the confusion.   But I was trying to be consistent.  The diamond Hawaii Collection is sold at $4.50 / point on the new point system.  I bought 3500 of those points to get Diamond resort priority for 13 months.  But you point is valid


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## brp (May 25, 2022)

Nowaker said:


> This depends. "Value" has different contexts.
> 
> There's "value" in financial terms, to understand if you're making a sound financial decision, and what the ROI is. If room upgrades is the main reason for getting Elite, then yes, that's how you should calculate the "value" - to understand your ROI. For example, I have Amex Hilton Aspire and pay $450 annual fee for it. I get $250 in MFs back, and 1 free night certificate (which I value at ~$200 and NOT $500 as this is what I'd spend for a night), and $250 in airline incidentals credit (which I value at $50because the beer I get for $250 is worth $50 in a store - and that's the only place where I get my beer - not bars). If you wouldn't pay for it, it has no value.



I agree with this. It's about what one would actually spend. For the airline incidentals part, for example,. we get $250 worth of WN travel, so this is worth the full $250. I might pay a little north of $200 for the "free" room, but not the GBP 500 we just saved on a recent stay in London.



Nowaker said:


> There's "value" in terms of "using what you already have". For example, my Amex Hilton Aspire gets me free room upgrades through Diamond status. I wouldn't pay for the upgrade. But when I get a room upgrade from Studio 2 Queen to 1 BR 2 Queen with View, which would cost me $135, then this is my "value".



True. But in looking at whether a financial decision was worth a certain monetary outlay, the return value should be calculated more as the paragraph above than this one.  Of course, once the expenditure has happened, this is a good way to look at things going forward.

Cheers.


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## Clifbell (May 25, 2022)

alwysonvac said:


> So you have now have a total of 25,500 ClubPoints (prior to the conversion).
> But what did it truly cost since most of your purchases were from the developer? What is your total of out pocket cost (excluding all fees) ?
> 
> *Please state resort, club points without the 1.6 multiplier, and actual amount paid. *
> ...


I had two deeds prior to my last upgrade... MarBrissa 8400 points for $5.60/point and 6200 Ireland at $5.90/point.... These were before I discovered TUG.  After TUG, I bought the resale and then upgraded to have them count as Developer for $3/point for my last 10,200 points....  These are all pre 1.6 multiplier numbers.  Bonus points was somewhere around 30,000 points overall as I used a VIP twice.


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## CalGalTraveler (May 25, 2022)

@Clifbell Thank you for sharing this information. You have helped many, including me sort through this confusing Max transition.


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## letsgobobby (May 25, 2022)

Clifbell said:


> I had two deeds prior to my last upgrade... MarBrissa 8400 points for $5.60/point and 6200 Ireland at $5.90/point.... These were before I discovered TUG.  After TUG, I bought the resale and then upgraded to have them count as Developer for $3/point for my last 10,200 points....  These are all pre 1.6 multiplier numbers.  Bonus points was somewhere around 30,000 points overall as I used a VIP twice.


For me these upgrades are hard to use. If i have four people i want a 2BR. If I book 1BR and no upgrade that's not good. There's very few times an unexpected upgrade would actually be both beneficial and allow me to save points. I either want and book 2 BR or I only need 1 BR. 

I'm glad you are getting good value for you out of your purchases. There are a lot of ways to do the Timeshare gig. I'm happy having paid 75 cents per old point including closing costs and that includes a home week at Lagoon, where we go every year.


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## alwysonvac (May 25, 2022)

Clifbell said:


> I had two deeds prior to my last upgrade... MarBrissa 8400 points for $5.60/point and 6200 Ireland at $5.90/point.... These were before I discovered TUG.  After TUG, I bought the resale and then upgraded to have them count as Developer for $3/point for my last 10,200 points....  These are all pre 1.6 multiplier numbers.  Bonus points was somewhere around 30,000 points overall as I used a VIP twice.



So your total spend to date is over $100k.

8400 for $5.60/pt = $47,040
6200 for $5.90/pt = $36,580
10,500 for $3.00/pt = $30,000
—————————————-
*Total spend $113,620*

*Keep in mind, the sales team will always come up with some new excuse why you need to spend more money (Elite Status, HGVC MAX access, lower maintenance fees, by Hilton Club access, Diamond access, higher point requirements, etc). *

_*Honestly, I hate to see anyone get taken advantage of. 
JMHO…  Remind yourself of the total $$ spent so far whenever you attend another sales presentation (aka owner update) or simply stay away if it’s hard to say NO.*_


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## Clifbell (May 25, 2022)

alwysonvac said:


> So your total spend to date is over $100k.
> 
> 8400 for $5.60/pt = $47,040
> 6200 for $5.90/pt = $36,580
> ...


Yep... Sadly discovered TUG too late... Only upside is I have always used my points so still less than renting


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## CalGalTraveler (May 26, 2022)

There is also the concept of sunk cost. The only thing you can change is to learn and decide if the next amount of money you spend is worth it.

As you move forward nothing will never reduce what was spent the past. There are also situations where more spending could extract more value or enjoyment out of the original spend. In this case the OP decided that the additional spending was worth it to get more enjoyment out of his past spending by increasing his status to elite plus, getting more points and adding more resort options to the points he owned. Nothing wrong with that.

We overpaid for our original developer purchase. Nothing we can do can change that. But like many Tuggers. we doubled down and bought more resales to extract more value out of that original spend and to earn Elite.  Although I wouldn't have spent the entire amount up-front to get Elite, the incremental cost to achieve it was worth it to get the additional perks and enjoyment.

Some people buy expensive luxury cars, others buy basic used. Each decision is personal - neither decision is wrong if one can afford it and it is enjoyed.


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## alwysonvac (May 26, 2022)

CalGalTraveler said:


> There is also the concept of sunk co*st. **The only thing you can change is to learn and decide if the next amount of money you spend is worth it*.


Agreed, over 50% of Tuggers have purchased directly from the developer.



> As you move forward nothing will never reduce what was spent the past. There are also situations where more spending could extract more value or enjoyment out of the original spend. In this case the OP decided that the additional spending was worth it to get more enjoyment out of his past spending by increasing his status to elite plus, getting more points and adding more resort options to the points he owned. *Nothing wrong with that.*


Agreed, I didn’t say otherwise 



> We overpaid for our original developer purchase. Nothing we can do can change that. *But like many Tuggers. we doubled down and bought more resales to extract more value out of that original spend and to earn Elite**.*  Although I wouldn't have spent the entire amount up-front to get Elite, the incremental cost to achieve it was worth it to get the additional perks and enjoyment.



I think the OP would learn a lot more by researching a little more on TUG 

There are a lot of folks who have learned how to maximize their ownership by reading and researching on TUG  and have used developer purchases to further their goals.



> Some people buy expensive luxury cars, others buy basic used. Each decision is personal - *neither decision is wrong if one can afford it and it is enjoyed.*


Agreed, we all have different thresholds but there’s nothing wrong with cautioning someone.
Sometimes it helps to take a step back and re-assess.

Lots of folks take their time to research before they purchase a major appliance, car, airfare, etc.
Lots of folks try to figure out the best use of frequent flyer miles or hotel points, how to get discount tickets, etc..
Lots of folks go to a timeshare presentation and get caught up in the deal of the day. They spend way more money  without any research at all.


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## WORLD TRAVELER (May 26, 2022)

alwysonvac said:


> There are a lot of folks who have learned how to maximize their ownership by reading and researching on TUG  and have used developer purchases to further their goals.



Agreed!  There is nothing wrong with Developer purchases and sometimes a Developer purchase is necessary in order to further one's goal of what they would like to achieve with their overall Timeshare ownership.


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## bnoble (May 26, 2022)

brp said:


> Was the upgrade necessarily meaningful?


This has always been the big question for me. I'm a Wyndham owner, not HGVC, but there is a similar question there.

_Size_ _upgrades_ often don't mean much to me. If I need an extra bedroom, I'm generally not willing to play the "maybe I will get upgraded" game. It's pretty rare that I squeeze to the point of putting someone on the pull-out. Instead, I book the extra bedroom, even if it requires more points. Heck, I'm now at the point that even though my two adult kids _can_ share a bedroom that has separate beds, I find myself booking the 3BRs instead when available rather than booking the smaller unit. They didn't share a bedroom at home growing up, so I'd rather not have them do that on vacation.

_View upgrades_ on the other hand are often welcome. I don't always spring for the better view, because I don't always think the point difference is worth it. But, I'd be happy with an upgrade and would consider it an improvement to the vacation. I suppose it would be most fair to value it at something less than full points, because I wasn't willing to pay them in the first place, but it is certainly not meaningless either.

Am I glad to get the occasional discount and upgrade? You bet. Would it be the reason I would give a friend or family member to buy from the developer? Probably not in most situations. That doesn't mean a developer purchase is a bad idea, necessarily, but it's easy to get caught up in the _idea_ of upgrades without thinking about how often they _matter._

Edited to add: thinking about this more, I suspect a lot has to do with whether you are most constrained by time or timeshare assets. In the beginning, I had a lot of vacations I wanted to take and not a lot of timeshares, so I played a lot of point-stretching games. (Back in the day, the 28K blue studio Wyndham RCI generics with internal preferece were _awesome _for this.) But, as time went on I expanded my timeshare portfolio faster than my time for vacations grew. So, I now find myself willing to splurge with points in places I wouldn't have before.


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## Clifbell (May 26, 2022)

alwysonvac said:


> So you have now have a total of 25,500 ClubPoints (prior to the conversion).
> But what did it truly cost since most of your purchases were from the developer? What is your total of out pocket cost (excluding all fees) ?
> 
> *Please state resort, club points without the 1.6 multiplier, and actual amount paid. *
> ...


My lucky Day.... I am traveling with a friend and I just got an update to the Villa at Bay club instead of the standard 2 bedroom (currently on the big island)... Next week is my birthday, so this is a wonderful birthday present I will enjoy.  This is my 4th upgrade... 1280 points or about $200... Not a lot but pretty excited about my birthday present to myself.


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## alwysonvac (May 26, 2022)

Clifbell said:


> My lucky Day.... I am traveling with a friend and I just got an update to the Villa at Bay club instead of the standard 2 bedroom (currently on the big island)... Next week is my birthday, so this is a wonderful birthday present I will enjoy.  This is my 4th upgrade... 1280 points or about $200... Not a lot but pretty excited about my birthday present to myself.


Nice! Happy Birthday


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## HuskerATL (May 26, 2022)

Clifbell said:


> My lucky Day.... I am traveling with a friend and I just got an update to the Villa at Bay club instead of the standard 2 bedroom (currently on the big island)... Next week is my birthday, so this is a wonderful birthday present I will enjoy.  This is my 4th upgrade... 1280 points or about $200... Not a lot but pretty excited about my birthday present to myself.


Nice. We just stayed in the Villa in April and really liked it.


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## frank808 (May 27, 2022)

Upgrade was to Elite Plus and Max premiere at the new level. Enjoy your new status and its benefits. 

I have made developer purchases to enroll resale units with Marriott Vacations Club but have stayed resale only with HGVC.


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## GT75 (May 27, 2022)

frank808 said:


> I thought Cliff upgraded to Elite Premiere?


I think that he is using the new HGV Max elite levels (to ensure that everything is all confusing).    This way he will be able to be upgraded to the next level at his next owner's update.


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## Clifbell (May 27, 2022)

GT75 said:


> I think that he is using the new HGV Max elite levels (to ensure that everything is all confusing).    This way he will be able to be upgraded to the next level at his next owner's update.


I can buy resale and then get to the new premier plus (formerly Elite plus).  The new rule is that resale can not take advantage of HGV plus nor the last 30 day specials.  If you do upgrade them they count toward status.


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## HuskerATL (May 27, 2022)

Clifbell said:


> I can buy resale and then get to the new premier plus (formerly Elite plus).  The new rule is that resale can not take advantage of HGV plus nor the last 30 day specials.  If you do upgrade them they count toward status.


Do you mean resale from HGVC properties or resale from properties managed by HGVC like Scotland?  I know the Scotland resale count toward elite status and assume, since they do, they would also count toward HGV Max Tiers levels.  I don't have any proof of that so it would be good to hear from others who are in Max and have resale that are elite eligible and if they counted toward the Max Tiers.

Also, since you are in Max, do you see the Max logos in  your HGVC portal?  Also, do you see Elite levels or Max Tiers and/or HVC properties?  I have heard from others who are new owners after April 4th, that they have Max logo in their portal but no access to HVC yet and no mention of whether their portal tells them their Tier status.  I also have heard that those that upgraded or purchased between January 14th and April 4th, that they are still waiting for the Opt In email to get access to Max so nothing has changed for them.


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## GT75 (May 27, 2022)

Clifbell said:


> I can buy resale and then get to the new premier plus (formerly Elite plus).


I don’t understand your statement.    Are you saying that you can buy another resale to reach the new premier plus level and even more resale to reach centum?


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## Nowaker (May 27, 2022)

Clifbell said:


> I can buy resale and then get to the new premier plus (formerly Elite plus). The new rule is that resale can not take advantage of HGV plus nor the last 30 day specials. If you do upgrade them they count toward status.


I highly doubt this is a case. Probably salesman's lies.


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## WORLD TRAVELER (May 27, 2022)

Clifbell said:


> I can buy resale and then get to the new premier plus (formerly Elite plus).  The new rule is that resale can not take advantage of HGV plus nor the last 30 day specials.  If you do upgrade them they count toward status.


Could you clarify what you're describing here?  As I understand, you're already at the Elite Plus level.


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## Clifbell (May 27, 2022)

WORLD TRAVELER said:


> Could you clarify what you're describing here?  As I understand, you're already at the Elite Plus level.


Sorry.... Elite Premier


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## Clifbell (May 27, 2022)

GT75 said:


> I don’t understand your statement.    Are you saying that you can buy another resale to reach the new premier plus level and even more resale to reach centum?


Yes, you can still buy resale and upgrade them to count toward status


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## WORLD TRAVELER (May 28, 2022)

Clifbell said:


> Yes, you can still buy resale and upgrade them to count toward status


You may want to see if the ability to buy resale Scotland from HGVC Scotland is available to upgrade your status to Premier Plus in Max.


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## frank808 (May 28, 2022)

Just thinking about this and seeing an option to save some money and putting this out.

Since Cliff already bought 14K direct points for elite level. Then Cliff spent an additional $31.5K to purchase 10K direct points to get to elite plus. That is sunk money already paid to HGVC.

Cliff enjoys and wants the elite perks. Seems open to paying again to upgrade to achieve highest level of elite premiere. Enjoys and values the upgrades and other perks of elite. 

Cliff could have bought 3 Scottish 7K contracts for around $15k and got 21K points. Would have been Elite Premiere instead of Plus. So paying less than half last upgrade price for almost double the points and achieving Elite Premiere instead of Plus. Wouldn't you qualify for more upgrades at the higher level? And more perks and higher in pecking order to get those upgrades?

Only drawbacks I see. Cliff did not need 10K more HGVC points. In his posts, it seems like he is open to spending more money on buying a resale and paying 30K to upgrade. Based on that info, the only risky part is the exchange rate of the dollar for paying maintenance fees. You have hedged that with the $15K (no counting interest) saved Instead of upgrading your resale unit. Lastly no max enrollment.

Sent from my SM-T290 using Tapatalk


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## HuskerATL (May 28, 2022)

frank808 said:


> Just thinking about this and seeing an option to save some money and putting this out.
> 
> Since Cliff already bought 14K direct points for elite level. Then Cliff spent an additional $31.5K to purchase 10K direct points to get to elite plus. That is sunk money already paid to HGVC.
> 
> ...


Actually, I paid about $2k for each of my Craigendarroch properties so about $14k for 46,400 elite eligible points.


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## Pathways (May 28, 2022)

WORLD TRAVELER said:


> You may want to see if the ability to buy resale Scotland from HGVC Scotland





frank808 said:


> Cliff could have bought 3 Scottish 7K contracts for around $15k and got 21K points





HuskerATL said:


> Actually, I paid about $2k for each of my Craigendarroch properties so about $14k for 46,400 elite eligible points.


The thing here that gets confusing to a lot of people is the term 'resale' that gets thrown about re: Scotland.

There are certainly resale HGVC weeks in Scotland available. They are on EBAY, Redweek from time to time, Diane's website, and others. Another good source is Worldwide Timeshare Hypermarket.  I have purchased resale there for as low as $1200 (GBP) for a 7k (old points) platinum week.

None of these are Elite eligible.

If you purchase a week from the HGVC Sales team, this is a developer sale, and all developer sales are elite eligible. This it not unique to Scotland, but all other HGVC locations are the same.  When you buy a week at SeaWorld from the HGVC sale team, this is not a NEW week, it has most likely been previously sold to someone else, and taken back by HGVC in some form or fashion.  Marriot VC has for years done the same thing.  If it is sold by the developer sales team, it is a developer sale.

The only difference is in Scotland HGVC has no budget to BUY or take back weeks from owners. An owner signs a listing agreement with HGVC and if the sales team finds a buyer, all the paperwork is signed, the new owner pays HGVC, and HGVC pays the original owner their agreed amount ( which of course is less commission).  Again, Marriott used to (and by a recent posting still does) do the same thing. I bought one from MVC this way, at Monarch.  It was still deeded in the original owner's name and they were still paying MF's.  However my purchase was direct from Marriott with all the developer benefits.  Yes, it was a 'resale' but it would be misleading to call it that. 

I agree that a direct purchase from one of the Scotland resorts CAN have some great financial benefits.


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## HuskerATL (May 28, 2022)

Pathways said:


> The thing here that gets confusing to a lot of people is the term 'resale' that gets thrown about re: Scotland.
> 
> There are certainly resale HGVC weeks in Scotland available. They are on EBAY, Redweek from time to time, Diane's website, and others. Another good source is Worldwide Timeshare Hypermarket.  I have purchased resale there for as low as $1200 (GBP) for a 7k (old points) platinum week.
> 
> ...


For Scotland resale, if you buy from a third party, such as Ebay, etc., they aren't elite eligible but if you buy from the HGVC office working for the resort who is playing the middleman, like you said, to sell for an owner, it is elite eligible.  It is still resale but just resale from HGVC directly versus another third party.  I guess that you could argue that most Scotland properties  do not have any retail/developer ownerships to sell any longer so it is just resale.  My point is though, you are paying resale price for a week ownership that counts toward elite status. I know.  I am Elite Premier and I only own 1 retail property.


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## Pathways (May 28, 2022)

HuskerATL said:


> It is still resale but just resale from HGVC


That comment is what gets people confused.  It is NOT resale anymore than the weeks that Vistana, Wyndham, or any other timeshare system sells. 95% were previously 'sold' to someone else.


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## HuskerATL (May 28, 2022)

Pathways said:


> That comment is what gets people confused.  It is NOT resale anymore than the weeks that Vistana, Wyndham, or any other timeshare system sells. 95% were previously 'sold' to someone else.


I understand your argument but the difference is that you are buying from another owner not from the resort. In the case of Scotland, HGVC is just playing the middleman like Judi and LT Transfers do. Yes, most "retail" properties were owned by a previous owner but not any longer. They are owned by HGVC and sold as retail/developer..... Because they are owned by the developer.

That is why the ones that we are referring to are still considered resale.


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## HuskerATL (May 28, 2022)

And just to add. You don't get all the benefits of retail, otherwise, I would be in Max. So, the system sees these as resale also but just special ones since they are bought from the resort so they are elite eligible but there has been discussion of that ending.


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## Smclaugh99 (May 28, 2022)

HuskerATL said:


> I understand your argument but the difference is that you are buying from another owner not from the resort. In the case of Scotland, HGVC is just playing the middleman like Judi and LT Transfers do. Yes, most "retail" properties were owned by a previous owner but not any longer. They are owned by HGVC and sold as retail/developer..... Because they are owned by the developer.
> 
> That is why the ones that we are referring to are still considered resale.


Not to get sideways in this conversation but aren’t the Scotland properties RTU? If so what is the end date?

Sean


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## HuskerATL (May 28, 2022)

Smclaugh99 said:


> Not to get sideways in this conversation but aren’t the Scotland properties RTU? If so what is the end date?
> 
> Sean


No end date.


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## HuskerATL (May 28, 2022)

One difference is that for other "resale", you can trade it in or upgrade to a developer ownership and get the original purchase price from the first owner toward the purchase which you can't do with the Scotland, as far as I know.  Another interesting thing about the Scotland versus other resale is the purchase date.  For my Vegas resale, the purchase date is the date the first owner bought it but for my retail and the Scotland, they are the date that I purchased so in that way, they tend to align to a retail purchase.


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## dioxide45 (May 28, 2022)

Is a Scotland week bought on eBay usually cost more than one direct from HGV? If so, how can one say that the prices direct form HGV are “resale” prices?


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## HuskerATL (May 28, 2022)

dioxide45 said:


> Is a Scotland week bought on eBay usually cost more than one direct from HGV? If so, how can one say that the prices direct form HGV are “resale” prices?


Well, my 1 bedroom Platinum week that comes with 7,680 points cost me $1,883 purchased from Andrew at Craigendarroch. I doubt that you can get it much cheaper from other third party sellers. Now, compare that price to what retail/developers are selling 1 bedroom platinum for....$30k....or  somewhere around there.


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## MattnTricia (May 28, 2022)

HuskerATL said:


> Actually, I paid about $2k for each of my Craigendarroch properties so about $14k for 46,400 elite eligible points.



Is this 46400 Pre or Post point inflation.
Did this cost include the initiation fee to HGVC and closing costs?
How many total units and are they all former platinum 7000 point weeks?
I know how great the former 7k weeks are for maintenance fee value at <$900 each.
Curious If you maximized your point to MF value also in addition to outstanding upfront purchase costs. 

I have seen a few incredible Elite Buyins and yours is definitely one of them.


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## HuskerATL (May 28, 2022)

MattnTricia said:


> Is this 46400 Pre or Post point inflation.
> Did this cost include the initiation fee to HGVC and closing costs?
> How many total units and are they all former platinum 7000 point weeks?
> I know how great the former 7k weeks are for maintenance fee value at <$900 each.
> ...


Post point inflation.  The price that I listed is the purchase price, legal fee, and VAT combined.  As an example one of my 1 Bedroom Platinum was £1,400 purchase price, a legal fee of £162.50, VAT of £32.50 so £1595 total.  Then you have the £293 for each lodge to be added to HGVC.  The only other cost is if there is 2022 MFs to be paid. I bought 6 and 3 had 2022 fees so I had to pay those which were £567 for each of the 1 bedroom Platinum 7,680 point units.  Five were the 1 bedroom platinum and one was a 2 bedroom gold.  The reason that I added in the gold was that with my existing retail ownership it gave me exactly 54,400 to make Elite Premier plus we have a couple other Vegas resales.  My MF/point for the 1 bedrooms are .096 and the 2 bedroom is .119.  Our average cost per point was .30/point. 

I could have reduced my overall MFs by getting 3 bedroom platinums but still would have needed 4 to get to the end goal and would have a lot higher upfront cost. They are about .07 MF/point and have 13,400 points.  For 4, the overall MFs would have been £3,356 compared to mine which is £3,565 but the upfront were 3 to 4 times higher and just to add, I don't think there were 4 available so it would have needed to mix between 2 and 3 bedrooms.

Overall, it turned out okay.  I could have done it a little differently but for the cost and the MFs, they have already paid for their selves with the 2022 reservations that I have made at places that are more expensive and have higher MFs. I have 6 trips for 2022 and two for 2023 so far.


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## Clifbell (May 28, 2022)

HuskerATL said:


> Post point inflation.  The price that I listed is the purchase price, legal fee, and VAT combined.  As an example one of my 1 Bedroom Platinum was £1,400 purchase price, a legal fee of £162.50, VAT of £32.50 so £1595 total.  Then you have the £293 for each lodge to be added to HGVC.  The only other cost is if there is 2022 MFs to be paid. I bought 6 and 3 had 2022 fees so I had to pay those which were £567 for each of the 1 bedroom Platinum 7,680 point units.  Five were the 1 bedroom platinum and one was a 2 bedroom gold.  The reason that I added in the gold was that with my existing retail ownership it gave me exactly 54,400 to make Elite Premier plus we have a couple other Vegas resales.  My MF/point for the 1 bedrooms are .096 and the 2 bedroom is .119.  Our average cost per point was .30/point.
> 
> I could have reduced my overall MFs by getting 3 bedroom platinums but still would have needed 4 to get to the end goal and would have a lot higher upfront cost. They are about .07 MF/point and have 13,400 points.  For 4, the overall MFs would have been £3,356 compared to mine which is £3,565 but the upfront were 3 to 4 times higher and just to add, I don't think there were 4 available so it would have needed to mix between 2 and 3 bedrooms.
> 
> Overall, it turned out okay.  I could have done it a little differently but for the cost and the MFs, they have already paid for their selves with the 2022 reservations that I have made at places that are more expensive and have higher MFs. I have 6 trips for 2022 and two for 2023 so far.


That is impressive.   One can always do better especially in hindsight.  But this is great


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## HuskerATL (May 31, 2022)

Pathways said:


> That comment is what gets people confused.  It is NOT resale anymore than the weeks that Vistana, Wyndham, or any other timeshare system sells. 95% were previously 'sold' to someone else.



@Pathways  Just to come back to this and show you that it is a resale, as per the Holiday Certificate, because we bought it from another owner but facilitated by HGVC.  I guess that it can be confusing to some folks but it is what it is.  Also, for the end date question from @Smclaugh99 , as you can see, it is in perpetuity.


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## dioxide45 (May 31, 2022)

HuskerATL said:


> Well, my 1 bedroom Platinum week that comes with 7,680 points cost me $1,883 purchased from Andrew at Craigendarroch. I doubt that you can get it much cheaper from other third party sellers. Now, compare that price to what retail/developers are selling 1 bedroom platinum for....$30k....or  somewhere around there.


Sounds like resale pricing to me.


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## Pathways (May 31, 2022)

HuskerATL said:


> @Pathways  Just to come back to this and show you that it is a resale, as per the Holiday Certificate, because we bought it from another owner but facilitated by HGVC.  I guess that it can be confusing to some folks but it is what it is.  Also, for the end date question from @Smclaugh99 , as you can see, it is in perpetuity.
> 
> View attachment 56608


Thanks.  And not to be repetitive, but as the purchaser of MANY of these weeks, it can be called anything you like, but for the purposes of HGVC these have always ACTED as developer weeks.  Therefore, in this forum to keep from confusing those just learning, I don't want to refer to them as anything different.  

It seems that initial reports are that they will not count toward MAX, but we don't have any reports yet from the other resorts who sell that same way to confirm (namely south FL resorts).  If all the resorts in FL begin to report that the weeks they sell are not counting, then I will gladly change my terminology. 

All of the S FL resorts sell that same way, (except I believe Miami Beach) by listing for owners wanting to sell.  My guess is if HGVC stops those weeks from counting as developer weeks, it will put the sales staff out of business.  AND cause a substantial drop in price. That is the MAIN pitch the sales staff uses to get owners to list through them.  Developer sale = higher selling price. 

I own a week from FL which my son sold to me using the sales staff at the FL resort.  It cost me the commission, but made the week a 'developer' sale.  Sure it was a resale, but if the eyes of HGVC, it is TREATED as developer. The difference in my FL purchase from those in Scotland, the FL sales staff had a much higher selling price floor before they would agree to broker the sale. YMMV

Interestingly enough, at a recent stay in HI, they signed me up for the update.  Called later and said I could not attend b/c I was a resale owner.  Said there was an 'issue with a FL week'  I suggested that it was NOT a resale week, and they called HGVC HQ the next day.  Called me back and said the update was on, that even though I had some weeks 'coded' as resale, they were actually developer weeks, something about how certain resorts sell their weeks.  She didn't elaborate, nor did I ask further as I knew exactly what the issue was.


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## HuskerATL (May 31, 2022)

Pathways said:


> Thanks.  And not to be repetitive, but as the purchaser of MANY of these weeks, it can be called anything you like, but for the purposes of HGVC these have always ACTED as developer weeks.  Therefore, in this forum to keep from confusing those just learning, I don't want to refer to them as anything different.
> 
> It seems that initial reports are that they will not count toward MAX, but we don't have any reports yet from the other resorts who sell that same way to confirm (namely south FL resorts).  If all the resorts in FL begin to report that the weeks they sell are not counting, then I will gladly change my terminology.
> 
> ...


As of right now, the Scotland won't count for Max, according to the Scotland folks. I keep thinking that maybe we will get tossed in with the Opt In folks when they get their email but I am not holding my breath.


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## ArkansasTraveler (Jun 5, 2022)

Pathways said:


> Thanks.  And not to be repetitive, but as the purchaser of MANY of these weeks, it can be called anything you like, but for the purposes of HGVC these have always ACTED as developer weeks.  Therefore, in this forum to keep from confusing those just learning, I don't want to refer to them as anything different.
> 
> It seems that initial reports are that they will not count toward MAX, but we don't have any reports yet from the other resorts who sell that same way to confirm (namely south FL resorts).  If all the resorts in FL begin to report that the weeks they sell are not counting, then I will gladly change my terminology.
> 
> ...


Hello, I'm interested in purchasing in SW Florida as you did (through HGVC). At which property did you purchase? Do you know where I can view these weeks for sale?
TIA!


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## dayooper (Jun 5, 2022)

ArkansasTraveler said:


> Hello, I'm interested in purchasing in SW Florida as you did (through HGVC). At which property did you purchase? Do you know where I can view these weeks for sale?
> TIA!



Each resort has an office that deals with resale. You can contact a SW Florida resorts sales office and they can tell you what they have for sale.


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## iiderman (Jun 5, 2022)

ArkansasTraveler said:


> Hello, I'm interested in purchasing in SW Florida as you did (through HGVC). At which property did you purchase? Do you know where I can view these weeks for sale?
> TIA!


We purchased a week this February from an Hgv rep at Sea watch on the beach in Fort Myers and we are not part of Max.  We did however qualify to be upgraded from elite plus to elite Premier with the same purchase.  So developer purchase that qualified for elite  but not for Max


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## HuskerATL (Jun 5, 2022)

ArkansasTraveler said:


> Hello, I'm interested in purchasing in SW Florida as you did (through HGVC). At which property did you purchase? Do you know where I can view these weeks for sale?
> TIA!


Make sure to understand the difference between flex and fixed weeks and the pros/cons for a flex week.


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## ocdb8r (Jun 6, 2022)

Pathways said:


> The only difference is in Scotland HGVC has no budget to BUY or take back weeks from owners.





HuskerATL said:


> In the case of Scotland, HGVC is just playing the middleman like Judi and LT Transfers do.



This is not strictly correct; HGVC in Scotland does have a take back program, so they do own a limited number of weeks.  I don't think it's particularly relevant to this conversation as the sales office there treats the weeks they sell the same, regardless of where they are coming from (HGVC owned or acting as a "broker" for other existing owners).


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## HuskerATL (Jun 6, 2022)

ocdb8r said:


> This is not strictly correct; HGVC in Scotland does have a take back program, so they do own a limited number of weeks.  I don't think it's particularly relevant to this conversation as the sales office there treats the weeks they sell the same, regardless of where they are coming from (HGVC owned or acting as a "broker" for other existing owners).


I will say that all 6 that I have bought from them have been from other owners but just facilitated by HGVC.


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## Pathways (Jun 6, 2022)

ArkansasTraveler said:


> Hello, I'm interested in purchasing in SW Florida as you did (through HGVC). At which property did you purchase? Do you know where I can view these weeks for sale?
> TIA!


Simply call the resorts you are interested in and ask if they a sales team. Some do, and some don't.  (Also I believe some share)


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