# Walked out of a presentation at Oceana Palms



## billymach4 (Nov 18, 2014)

Everything started out cordial. They have a profile of my portfolio, 3 resales weeks 2 are pre 6/2010 and on is post 6/2010.

I was receptive and listened. When I told him (Anthony) that I would have to maintain 2 II accounts for my pre and post 6/2010 he flat out said that was not true. He also said we don't do enrollments any more for my pre 6/2010 weeks. He continued to play good cop / bad cop pitting my wife against me, and using reverse psychological tactics. All the while he was clearly getting frustrated because he knew I was not going to purchase. He also claimed that the 1500 point minimum purchase would not be available to me. I would have to enter at a higher level. My wife was getting uncomfortable. He insisted that we could talk about what I wanted or learn more about the system. He also said that if I wanted we could end the presentation. Mind you I was about an hour into the meeting.

He continued to tell me that what I read online is not true, just like trip advisor. I insisted that I know many of you tuggers here personally and I know what is true and what is not. He then go so desperate and said that "Why did you bother coming here today if you know you are not going to buy". Then he wanted to know if there was anything he said thus far that was not true? I told him the separate II accounts for DC account vs non enrolled post 6/2010 must be separate and there are separate membership fees. He continued to tell me that was not true! 

He kept baiting me for other untrue information. I asked him about points purchased today, how would I sell them next year if I had a life changing event that prevented me from using my points. He turned that around and said how would you sell your weeks today? He avoided directly answering the question. He also gave me the spiel about how he does 3 tours a day and sells about one out of 3. Also he was on salary and did not care if he made a sale. I also told him that whatever he told me in the room was useless, since the written contract agreement is what really matters. He did not offer up anything in writing to prove or disprove what I was saying. 

*Honest truth folks I did not go into this wanting a confrontation. This guy Anthony had another agenda. I really think something in the system tipped him off.*

At this point his attitude was condescending and had an undertone of frustration. I told him to get out of the room and I wanted to end to meeting. He said another person would come back to ask me if everything was OK about his presentation. About 5 mins passed and Meghan sat down and said she understood we wanted to leave. I asked here if there was any paperwork to fill out. Told me about the online survey I would get in the mail. When I asked here about the 17,500 points she said we would be required to stay with him for another 30 mins. My wife was so uncomfortable that I just said lets go.

Don't care about the  MR points at this moment at all. I have a strong suspicion that the sales people and Marriott's system is profiling candidates based on their portfolio since the launch of the DC system. They can look back and I am sure they are making notes in the system based on our past tours. In St Thomas I challenged the sales people on the same issues I mentioned here. They also got frustrated when I corrected their misrepresentations.

I also suspect that TUG has had an affect on their sales by way of the rescinding recommendations we all advise. 

I am comforted by the fact that Marriott Sales is reading TUG and going on the offensive. We are having a positive effect for the timeshare consumer. 

One other thing I need to tell you all. After Meghan let us exit the room there was a large male posted outside near the door, and another large male seated trying to be inconspicuous near the elevator. Both of them made like they were reading their smartphones. These guys were ready in case I got verbally abusive or physically abusive. That was the last thing on my mind and I would never create a scene. What were they thinking?:ignore:


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## TheTimeTraveler (Nov 18, 2014)

I would advise you to take your situation further up the Marriott ladder.  It may not do you any good, but it may help the next person...




.


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## SpikeMauler (Nov 18, 2014)

Been there 

http://tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=131409


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## pedro47 (Nov 18, 2014)

I feel you did the right thing.


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## aka Julie (Nov 18, 2014)

Just another reason why we will NOT be taking a presentation when we are at Oceana Palms in a couple weeks.


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## Beefnot (Nov 18, 2014)

billymach4 said:


> Then he wanted to know if there was anything he said thus far that was not true? I told him the separate II accounts for DC account vs non enrolled post 6/2010 must be separate and there are separate membership fees. He continued to tell me that was not true!


 
At this point, you should have pulled out your cel phone and asked "Ok, would you like to call Interval or shall I? We can put it on speaker."


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## rickandcindy23 (Nov 18, 2014)

Marriott's Cypress Harbour asked us several times to go on a presentation because there are changes to the system, which would be relevant to us.  I said no, and this is why.  Desperate sales people are not my idea of a nice 90 minutes.  

Sorry it went so badly.  I think if Dave M. was still here, he would take out the salesperson's name because he thought it was a courtesy.  I am of the opposite opinion.  We should keep a database of lousy salespeople.  Then again, I am never going on a Marriott timeshare presentation.  

Too bad they won't let me convert without a lot of hassle.


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## TUGBrian (Nov 18, 2014)

I find it sickening when salespersons go on the offensive and become rude and confrontational.

I attended a marriott sales presentation on my last stay in vegas, I was polite and upfront with the salesman...who was courteous in return (And was actually interested in TUG and chatting with me).

While not defending marriott, I truly hope your experience (and the other one posted) is the exception vs the rule.

We shall see the reaction when it goes in the newsletter this week.


ps. per the name comment, as long as the post doesnt include his last name, im perfectly fine with just his first name remaining


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## SueDonJ (Nov 18, 2014)

I'm of two minds.  On the one hand we TUGgers know that we're far more likely in a blind sales presentation to meet up with sales reps who will get at least one thing about the DC wrong, so why bother to argue with them about it especially if you know you're not buying?  But on the other hand why should anybody, TUGger or not, be expected to deal with negative sales experiences?

Billy, I'd follow up by contacting customer.care@vacationclub.com.  IMO you should be due at least a portion of the MRP's which were offered for the presentation.  It's not as though you cut it short for no good reason.


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## SueDonJ (Nov 18, 2014)

rickandcindy23 said:


> Marriott's Cypress Harbour asked us several times to go on a presentation because there are changes to the system, which would be relevant to us.  I said no, and this is why.  Desperate sales people are not my idea of a nice 90 minutes.
> 
> Sorry it went so badly.  I think if Dave M. was still here, he would take out the salesperson's name because he thought it was a courtesy.  I am of the opposite opinion.  We should keep a database of lousy salespeople.  Then again, I am never going on a Marriott timeshare presentation.
> 
> *Too bad they won't let me convert without a lot of hassle.*



You mean enroll, right?  Enrolling Weeks in the DC is not a permanent conversion of the Weeks to DC Points.

I'm not sure what hassle you'd face but it's a simple process to enroll online without ever having to speak to a rep.  Sign in to your account, click on any of the "Enroll Now" links and you'll be taken to a page that itemizes your eligible Weeks.  Then click through the process and it's done.


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## rickandcindy23 (Nov 18, 2014)

SueDonJ said:


> You mean enroll, right?  Enrolling Weeks in the DC is not a permanent conversion of the Weeks to DC Points.
> 
> I'm not sure what hassle you'd face but it's a simple process to enroll online without ever having to speak to a rep.  Sign in to your account, click on any of the "Enroll Now" links and you'll be taken to a page that itemizes your eligible Weeks.  Then click through the process and it's done.


My weeks are resale, all bought in the last few years.  I cannot just enroll, from all that I read.

From the website:
_You may enroll certain week(s) in the Exchange Program for only $2,395. Except for certain weeks purchased from Marriott Vacation Club or its affiliates, weeks that were purchased and recorded after June 20, 2010 are not eligible for this offer. Weeks purchased from third parties (i.e., not from Marriott Vacation Club) with a deed recording date prior to June 20, 2010 may be eligible for this offer. Offer is valid for weeks located at U.S. and Caribbean only._


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## GrayFal (Nov 18, 2014)

Bill, I am sorry that you and DW had such a negative experience....especially when you KNEW that you were correct.

It really has been a number of years since I attended a sales presentation. Although I live points, I hate the abuse and dis-information.


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## SueDonJ (Nov 18, 2014)

rickandcindy23 said:


> My weeks are resale, all bought in the last few years.  I cannot just enroll, from all that I read.
> 
> From the website:
> _You may enroll certain week(s) in the Exchange Program for only $2,395. Except for certain weeks purchased from Marriott Vacation Club or its affiliates, weeks that were purchased and recorded after June 20, 2010 are not eligible for this offer. Weeks purchased from third parties (i.e., not from Marriott Vacation Club) with a deed recording date prior to June 20, 2010 may be eligible for this offer. Offer is valid for weeks located at U.S. and Caribbean only._



Oh, I thought you're having problems trying to enroll Weeks that are eligible.  Nevermind.


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## billymach4 (Nov 18, 2014)

SueDonJ said:


> I'm of two minds.  On the one hand we TUGgers know that we're far more likely in a blind sales presentation to meet up with sales reps who will get at least one thing about the DC wrong, so why bother to argue with them about it especially if you know you're not buying?  But on the other hand why should anybody, TUGger or not, be expected to deal with negative sales experiences?
> 
> Billy, I'd follow up by contacting customer.care@vacationclub.com.  IMO you should be due at least a portion of the MRP's which were offered for the presentation.  It's not as though you cut it short for no good reason.



Sue I have emailed the customer care group. I included all of my personal information and my MR number. Also requested to speak to a senior manager, because I want to make sure that this does not get swept under the rug at Oceana Palms. Since I did not receive my gift they might indicate in their system that I was a no show.


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## SueDonJ (Nov 18, 2014)

billymach4 said:


> Sue I have emailed the customer care group. I included all of my personal information and my MR number. Also requested to speak to a senior manager, because I want to make sure that this does not get swept under the rug at Oceana Palms. Since I did not receive my gift they might indicate in their system that I was a no show.



Good, I hope it works out the way you want it to.


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## billymach4 (Nov 18, 2014)

While driving down to Coral Springs I already got a call back from customer care. The issue will be reviewed.

Happy to hear back so quickly.

Thanks Sue


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## mpizza (Nov 18, 2014)

Sorry you and your wife had to endure such an unpleasant experience.  I hope it didn't damper the remaining vacation days.

Maria


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## rickandcindy23 (Nov 18, 2014)

SueDonJ said:


> Oh, I thought you're having problems trying to enroll Weeks that are eligible.  Nevermind.


Funny that you would assume like that.:rofl:  I kind of know my way around the timeshare world, so of course I knew my resale weeks wouldn't qualify for enrollment in DC.  No offense, though.


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## Mamianka (Nov 18, 2014)

mpizza said:


> Sorry you and your wife had to endure such an unpleasant experience.  I hope it didn't damper the remaining vacation days.
> 
> Maria



Several years ago we had THAT SAME GUY be just as horrible to us.  Yes, we contacted customer care - but he must be making $$ for  Marriott and for himself - because there he is. Told us he was a former attorney from NY. We remembered his name - same as our grown son - and when we were there last month, he walked by us.  His was THE LAST meeting we went to, I think, and have told every person that calls here at home, before we depart for a vacation, the we will NEVER go to another "informational meeting".  HE was the guy I was referring to in other posts about this same situation, that I finally "We are in shorts and T-shirts, and YOU are in a suit - but we came here knowing that no matter what you called it, this is a business meeting - and we have done all our homework.  We came because YOU called it an "information meeting" - and we have gotten all the information we want from YOU.  We are done."

At the end of the time spent with him, he then told us they were "All out" of the paperwork that would give us points!  Skipping ahead - we got ours before we left the building (we were staying at Ocean Pointe).

Some folks here like to go to these, because they can endure this BS and smile about the points.  We boil, and feel insulted - so we do not go.  Not ever again.

Mamianka


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## jd2601 (Nov 18, 2014)

This sounds like the same person we had durring a presentation at Oceana Palms.  He wanted to know what I wanted to know.  I started to ask him about areas to visit he recommended.  He got so confrontational I insisted he leave the room and send in his manager.  I thought this person was the worst experience we had at a Marriott presentation

We have 2 resale Marriott weeks one pre and one post.  I told him I would consider if they would allow both weeks.  Otherwise I had no interest in two II accounts.

He did finally send in his manager another gentleman.  We did stay for the rest of the presentation.  The manager was fine but the first guy was a challenge.




billymach4 said:


> Everything started out cordial. They have a profile of my portfolio, 3 resales weeks 2 are pre 6/2010 and on is post 6/2010.
> 
> I was receptive and listened. When I told him (Anthony) that I would have to maintain 2 II accounts for my pre and post 6/2010 he flat out said that was not true. He also said we don't do enrollments any more for my pre 6/2010 weeks. He continued to play good cop / bad cop pitting my wife against me, and using reverse psychological tactics. All the while he was clearly getting frustrated because he knew I was not going to purchase. He also claimed that the 1500 point minimum purchase would not be available to me. I would have to enter at a higher level. My wife was getting uncomfortable. He insisted that we could talk about what I wanted or learn more about the system. He also said that if I wanted we could end the presentation. Mind you I was about an hour into the meeting.
> 
> ...


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## NYFLTRAVELER (Nov 18, 2014)

rickandcindy23 said:


> We should keep a database of lousy salespeople.



This is a good idea. Sue, et al.... can we start a database of all MVCI salespeople (whether good or bad)?


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## EducatedConsumer (Nov 18, 2014)

For some reason, I always thought of Anthony's as timeshare salespeople or used car salespeople. This Oceana Palms, Anthony, lived up to my expectations and perceived persona.

Given his reported tactics, I'm surprised that Marriott hasn't weeded him out. 

I think the report of the two thugs, the Marriott equivalent of the White House Secret Service Detail, is pretty funny.


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## SueDonJ (Nov 18, 2014)

NYFLTRAVELER said:


> This is a good idea. Sue, et al.... can we start a database of all MVCI salespeople (whether good or bad)?



This isn't a question for TUG moderators, I don't think.  Click on TUGBrian's user name in his Post #8 in this thread and send him a PM to ask what he thinks of the idea.

In my opinion as a TUGger and not a mod, it would be a helpful resource but maybe not effective because I would expect that when word got out the sales reps named on TUG would request that their names be removed, and generally a request to have identifying information removed from a TUG post is honored if/when the person being named makes the request.


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## SueDonJ (Nov 18, 2014)

EducatedConsumer said:


> For some reason, I always thought of Anthony's as timeshare salespeople or used car salespeople. This Oceana Palms, Anthony, lived up to my expectations and perceived persona.
> 
> Given his reported tactics, I'm surprised that Marriott hasn't weeded him out.
> 
> *I think the report of the two thugs, the Marriott equivalent of the White House Secret Service Detail, is pretty funny.*



It's one thing in Billy's post that made sense.  After the report of someone pulling out a gun during a sales presentation, we should probably expect more "protection details."


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## BocaBoy (Nov 18, 2014)

SueDonJ said:


> This isn't a question for TUG moderators, I don't think.  Click on TUGBrian's user name in his Post #8 in this thread and send him a PM to ask what he thinks of the idea.
> 
> In my opinion as a TUGger and not a mod, it would be a helpful resource but maybe not effective because I would expect that when word got out *the sales reps named on TUG would request that their names be removed, and generally a request to have identifying information removed from a TUG post is honored if/when the person being named makes the request.*



That is an interesting TUG policy.  Timeshare employees, including sales people, should have to live with their "evaluations" so I personally think the policy is misguided.


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## TUGBrian (Nov 19, 2014)

really has nothing to do with the person being a salesperson or not, if someones personal information is posted without their permission in a public place...I have no problem honoring that same person requesting some details of that personal information be removed.

Basically, I try to abide by someones request when it comes to personal or private information.  Be it a member, or just someone being discussed.  

Now, of course there are exceptions to this rule, for instance if said person already had that personal information published in a public place on the internet etc etc.


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## TUGBrian (Nov 19, 2014)

While i am not for a post that lists names of really crappy salespersons....thats a dangerous road to take IMO.

I have no problem with a post that consolidates a bunch of links to other posts about folks talking about their sales presentation experience.


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## NYFLTRAVELER (Nov 19, 2014)

I believe that if somebody had a positive (or negative) experience with a specific sales person at a specific resort we should be able to share that information with our fellow TUGgers.  Saying Joe at XYZ resort was a bad salesperson because he did abcdef or Tom at XXX resort was great, he did ........  is fine.  Why is it ok to say XYZ timeshare resale company are con-artists or XYZ resort was dirty, but we cannot express specific comments and opinions about salespeople) which is a key aspect of timeshares and presentations.....?


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## TUGBrian (Nov 19, 2014)

as pointed out in your PM...you are confusing and twisting what is said.

can you post your experience at a sales presentation?  absolutely (in fact this thread is proof of that)

are we going to start a separate thread where everyone can post the names of every crappy salesperson they experienced at marriott?  no =)


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## mj2vacation (Nov 19, 2014)

We are checking in to Oceana Palms again Friday.  They have already started with the bogus "concierge" calls.   We had a horrible tour at Ocean Pointe a few years ago when they were showing a model of Oceana.   

That was the last tour we will ever take.   

There is no amount of points or cash worth taking vacation time away from my family.


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## nakyak (Nov 19, 2014)

billymach4 said:


> While driving down to Coral Springs I already got a call back from customer care. The issue will be reviewed.
> 
> Happy to hear back so quickly.
> 
> Thanks Sue



Customer Care will issue you the points that you should have received by taking the presentation to make the issue go away.

Nothing will happen to the sales executive or sales site to prevent the issue from happening to a different person in the future.  

Wash, rinse, repeat.


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## TheTimeTraveler (Nov 19, 2014)

mj2vacation said:


> We are checking in to Oceana Palms again Friday.  They have already started with the bogus "concierge" calls.   We had a horrible tour at Ocean Pointe a few years ago when they were showing a model of Oceana.
> 
> That was the last tour we will ever take.
> 
> There is no amount of points or cash worth taking vacation time away from my family.






As soon as you tell them you are traveling alone then the annoying phone calls will stop!



.


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## jont (Nov 19, 2014)

If it was me, I would have told him I was going to stay the remaining 30 minutes. I would have then pulled out my Iphone and started reading the TUG forum for the remainder of the time .If questioned or challenged I would reply that Im learning more than I could listening to you.


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## billymach4 (Nov 19, 2014)

jont said:


> If it was me, I would have told him I was going to stay the remaining 30 minutes. I would have then pulled out my Iphone and started reading the TUG forum for the remainder of the time .If questioned or challenged I would reply that Im learning more than I could listening to you.



As I noted earlier the points or gift is nice, but both of us were so upset by how fast Anthony's demeanor changed. He just did not want listen to any reasonable explanation of the truth. So in the end the gift of points is not my issue here. My issue is Anthony's lack of professional behavior, and his misguided view of the facts that he represents for Marriott. This plus his good cop, bad cop psyco mind games was the turn off. 

What I do wish is that I could have captured this confrontational behavior on video. If Marriott really wanted to keep their bad apple sales people in check that would be a better option.


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## billymach4 (Nov 19, 2014)

I appreciate the support all have noted. Did follow up with Customer Care and they are performing their due diligence. Gathering the other side of the story as well. 

Most of the time I avoid these sales gigs. Now my mind is dead set against any further sit down timeshare discussions with sales people at all future vacations. My wife is livid at this experience as well.

When I spoke to Customer Care earlier I also noted I was not complaining due to not receiving the gift. Not trying to shake down Marriott for anything. I need to set the record straight and communicate the presence of some Bad Apples, and sour grapes at Oceana Palms. 

Even the management type that came in to let me know that it was OK to leave did not want to know what the problem was. She (Meghan) just had this deer in headlights look.. No wanting to know why I wanted to leave? 

Other than this incident we are enjoying our wonderful view from the Kingfish building.


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## jont (Nov 19, 2014)

billymach4 said:


> As I noted earlier the points or gift is nice, but both of us were so upset by how fast Anthony's demeanor changed. He just did not want listen to any reasonable explanation of the truth. So in the end the gift of points is not my issue here. My issue is Anthony's lack of professional behavior, and his misguided view of the facts that he represents for Marriott. This plus his good cop, bad cop psyco mind games was the turn off.
> 
> What I do wish is that I could have captured this confrontational behavior on video. If Marriott really wanted to keep their bad apple sales people in check that would be a better option.



Billy
I'm sorry you had such a bad experience. My comment was made tongue in cheek. Im sure if my wife was made uncomfortable as yours was, I would have walked out just like you. If fact, at this point in time my wife refuses to go to any more presentations.smart woman.I hope they give you the points as a matter of principal. good luck


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## billymach4 (Nov 19, 2014)

jont said:


> Billy
> I'm sorry you had such a bad experience. My comment was made tongue in cheek. Im sure if my wife was made uncomfortable as yours was, I would have walked out just like you. If fact, at this point in time my wife refuses to go to any more presentations.smart woman.I hope they give you the points as a matter of principal. good luck



Thanks Jon!


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## suzannesimon (Nov 19, 2014)

I must say that the absolutely best salesperson I have ever experienced was the Marriott rep who sold me my MFC weeks.  I wish I could remember his name but I was an Internet lead.  He was somewhere in California.  All our interactions were over the phone and he was totally professional.  It took about 2 months for me to decide and he stayed in touch just the right amount of time with no pressure.  I'm a sales manager and I train agents using him as an example of how people should be treated.


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## mj2vacation (Nov 19, 2014)

TheTimeTraveler said:


> As soon as you tell them you are traveling alone then the annoying phone calls will stop!
> 
> 
> 
> .



Even better.    iPhones now have a block caller feature.    Works like a charm.


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## BocaBoy (Nov 20, 2014)

TUGBrian said:


> really has nothing to do with the person being a salesperson or not, *if someones personal information is posted without their permission in a public place...I have no problem honoring that same person requesting some details of that personal information be removed.*
> 
> Basically, I try to abide by someones request when it comes to *personal or private information*.  Be it a member, or just someone being discussed.



I agree it has nothing to do with being a salesperson and I did not limit my comment to sales people.  However, a report of an experience with someone in a business setting is not "personal" information about that person.  Personal in formation does not include behavior in their job with the customer.  That is public information.  That is basic law and logic, not even a gray area.  Of course you can have a TUG rule against it, but I am just saying that such a rule makes no sense to me.


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## KauaiMark (Nov 20, 2014)

*We walked out also...*



TUGBrian said:


> I find it sickening when salespersons go on the offensive and become rude and confrontational.



We were asked if we wanted to attend an informational presentation about "Changes coming to Interval International" in Williamsburg (not a Marriott) on an II Getaway week. 

We've used II only once for trade since we pretty much use our week every year. After a few years of not using II, we dropped membership. 

Since we got re-enrolled into II when Marriott started the DC points system, I was interested to see what the "new" changes were. Standard pitch to attend. Breakfast & $65 cash card to attend the *40min only* informational presentation. 

We had breakfast (very good and way too much food) and returned to the meeting place and met with our "personal advisor" for what turned out to be a high pressure sales pitch to buy another TS. 

Of course we declined and asked instead about the "new II" changes. Sounds like they might be starting their own "points" program but we needed to buy a "qualifying" TS to use it. She implied that Marriotts didn't qualify. 

When we could not get any clarification about how the II system worked after 45min, we pointed out that we need to go and her time was up. 

She then got hostile and said the "40 min" was the _*minimum *_ time and she "was just gettin' started" 

We got up and left the table. At the door we were intercepted and asked how our presentation went. My wife went a little ballistic and they handed us the $65 cash card anyway as people at other tables started to stare.


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## Larry M (Nov 20, 2014)

KauaiMark said:


> We got up and left the table. At the door we were intercepted and asked how our presentation went. My wife went a little ballistic and they handed us the $65 cash card anyway as people at other tables started to stare.



Exactly! You've got nothing to lose and they could lose the current batch of potential customers if you poison the well by raising your voice and letting terms like "bait-and-switch" or "unethical" or "Better Business Bureau" be overheard. Don't be shy and you'll get your premiums and a quick walk to the door.


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## susieginger (Nov 20, 2014)

*My BBB Report on a "presentation" is now in the hands of the FBI*

I absolutely had my identity stolen at a restaurant "presentation" supposedly telling me how I could turn my Wyndham points into RCI points and pay my Mtn fees with those RCI points.  A Bank of America  credit card was applied for and a $10,000  charge put on the new card.  I had bought Sunset Harbor TS in Texas!!!!!  When I got home and read the fine print, I called both numbers given to me by the charming, slick, salesman.  Got a nice answering machine message  for the dozens of time I called that number, but no one ever returned my call....then my 5 days to back out expired and Bank of America told me I was stuck with the $10,000  charge on a credit card I never asked for, and a Sunset Harbor TS.  Attorney General, BBB, private attorney's advice, Sheriff's Dept for  fraud report/ stolen identity report....I told my story to everybody.  Last month I got a call form the FBI  Yippee!!! The RCI Points people had crossed state lines with their scam.  Now we will see what the FBI does to them.  BTW, I never paid them a dime.  My credit rating is shot...with a $10,000 balance on a credit card I never intend to pay.  Sad!!  FBI  told me they got my story from the BBB report I filed.  Hope everybody will file a BBB report like I did so we can slow down these scam artists.  They are VERY GOOD at what they do.


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## pappyshappy (Nov 20, 2014)

*MVC is no longer Marriott*

We always went to the Marriott presentations and were treated courteously and respectfully, that is before the new MVC points system.  At our last presentation, post point system, the salesman was very good and convincing and we said yes.  While we were in the closing room I noticed there were some charges, both recurring and non-recurring that were not mentioned in the presentation.  We were upset and when the closing clerk asked if this was a deal breaker, we said yes and she promptly destroyed all of the paper work.  We thanked her for her honesty and she escorted us to the door.  As we were walking down the stairs to the exit, the salesman breathlessly accosted us in the stairwell and said that he told us about all of the charges and accused us of being untruthful.  I just stood there quietly as he ranted and when he paused for breath, I smiled and said, "Have a good day!" and walked out the door.  As for the sales rep that said they do not work on commission, I say, "Horse Feathers and Bull Puckey!"  

After some on-line research I found out that MVC is no longer a Marriott company.  Marriott sold off the timeshare business and licenses the Marriott name to the new owners.  Based on my experiences, having been a Marriott owner for over 14 years, this new company does not subscribe to the ethical standards of Marriott Corporation we were used to and I wrote and told them so.  I suggested that Marriott terminate their license agreement with this new bunch as it is reflecting badly on them.

As a post script, my wife and I did a more in depth analysis of the dollar value of the points program and found it just did not add up.  For example, compare it with the Disney program.  We were so disappointed with the system we are going to divest our current properties and go on a cruise!

Caveat Emptor!


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## billymach4 (Nov 20, 2014)

*Heard back from Customer Care.*

Received email from customer care acknowledging the issue we experienced at Oceana Palms. The email indicated that the situation would be addressed. I did not ask what corrective action would be taken either, but I am at happy that I was acknowledged. 

I was also offered 20,000 points. Indicated that I would accept the offer and put this behind us. 

One thing I would say is that Marriott has a pipeline to escalate and address these unfortunate events. I would be interested to know if the other large systems (Starwood, Hyatt, Hilton, DVC) have an advocacy office. I must say Marriott has shown good will here despite the rotten apples among the staff.  


Thank you all for reading and listening. Special thanks to Sue for providing the direct email to escalate.

Bill


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## MALC9990 (Nov 21, 2014)

pappyshappy said:


> We always went to the Marriott presentations and were treated courteously and respectfully, that is before the new MVC points system.  At our last presentation, post point system, the salesman was very good and convincing and we said yes.  While we were in the closing room I noticed there were some charges, both recurring and non-recurring that were not mentioned in the presentation.  We were upset and when the closing clerk asked if this was a deal breaker, we said yes and she promptly destroyed all of the paper work.  We thanked her for her honesty and she escorted us to the door.  As we were walking down the stairs to the exit, the salesman breathlessly accosted us in the stairwell and said that he told us about all of the charges and accused us of being untruthful.  I just stood there quietly as he ranted and when he paused for breath, I smiled and said, "Have a good day!" and walked out the door.  As for the sales rep that said they do not work on commission, I say, "Horse Feathers and Bull Puckey!"
> 
> After some on-line research I found out that MVC is no longer a Marriott company.  Marriott sold off the timeshare business and licenses the Marriott name to the new owners.  Based on my experiences, having been a Marriott owner for over 14 years, this new company does not subscribe to the ethical standards of Marriott Corporation we were used to and I wrote and told them so.  I suggested that Marriott terminate their license agreement with this new bunch as it is reflecting badly on them.
> 
> ...



Fundamenylly I think you hit the nail smack on the head. MVW is not a Marriott subsidiary. It carries the Marriott name and many of the Marriott execs hold stock in MVW. However the spin off of MVW made the timeshare company an independent entity with stockholders who want to see a return. So I agree the more agressive nature of the sales presentations in many cases will be as a result of a change in the nature of the company not a change in the nature of the product. Were MVW selling weeks still, then we would probably see the same change in the sales pitch. The sales guys are now under corporate pressure to sell more agressively and we see the results.


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## csxjohn (Nov 21, 2014)

MALC9990 said:


> .... The sales guys are now under corporate pressure to sell more agressively and we see the results.



The ultimate pressure is that if they don't get a sale their kids don't eat.  You all know this going in so you should not be surprised when you come across it.

Those thugs are in place because more than one person has gotten upset over this.  It will continue no matter who says they are looking into it.


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## suzannesimon (Nov 21, 2014)

Their tactics must be successful.  Otherwise, they would get rid of them.  Sales people like that can bully people into contracts but they lose a lot of them during the rescission period.
Enough of them must "stick" however to keep them employed.


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## macster43 (Nov 21, 2014)

I attend the presentations when it is convenient for me, I have the same strategy every time I am polite and I listen I don’t ask questions and at the end I inform them that I really would be interested at some point in the future but right now I have 2 kids in college and that is where all of my funds are being directed. It has worked like a charm every time and the fact is I do have 2 kids in college so there isn’t a snowballs chance in hell I would be purchasing anything.


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## noodlethepoodle (Nov 21, 2014)

My husband and I attended a sales presentation in Palm Desert this past October.  It was the 1st time that I attended a presentation where I didn't learn something, in fact, I knew more than the salesperson.  I was given misinformation about the number of MR points needed for certain awards.  After the presentation I called both the destination points advisor and Marriott rewards to check.  I was hoping that they were right because I could get much more for an upcoming trip to Spain than I was planning on, but they were wrong.  This is the 1st time that the salesperson wasn't helpful.


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## Videoguy75 (Nov 21, 2014)

Our experience at Oceana 2 years ago was, fortunately, not unpleasant at all. Did not learn a lot until someone else walked in full of interesting stuff.

Last month we had several units at Canyon Villas at Desert Ridge. Spent 59 delightful minutes with Lisa exchanging insights. 3 of our married children also went in - like us they love the points. One was there for two hours but reported "I just kept asking questions to understand better." The other two had similar pleasant 45 minute experiences that began with "We do all our vacationing on this side of the family with Dad's points; don't have enough vacation time for any more TS." Everyone was treated respectfully. Asked to purchase as should be expected, but treated respectfully.

With our 20 years of doing Marriott presentations, the great majority have been acceptable. Those few bad apples sure are memorable!


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## nakyak (Nov 21, 2014)

billymach4 said:


> Received email from customer care acknowledging the issue we experienced at Oceana Palms. T*he email indicated that the situation would be addressed. I did not ask what corrective action would be taken either, but I am at happy that I was acknowledged. *
> 
> I was also offered 20,000 points. Indicated that I would accept the offer and put this behind us.
> 
> ...




No corrective action will be taken and you were supposed to receive the 17,500 for going to the tour in the first place.

Marriott basically comped you 2,500 points for your experience and the same sales tactics will continue.  It's their cost of doing business this way.

Marriott knows that these tactics work to get people to buy and they will continue to utilize them.


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## leonidas (Nov 21, 2014)

*marriott presentations*

I am a very happy MVCI owner, with two properties in Kauai, one in Aruba, and one in Myrtle Beach. All are week properties that I enrolled in the Destinations program when it came out in 2010. It may save me a dollar or two not to pay nickel and dime fees and it does offer me some flexibility.

Having said all of that, the program STINKS! I am a Premier Plus and I would have to give up ALL of my weeks for the year to take a one week "Excursion" to Napa Valley. This doesn't even include a girl for the week, a Ferrari, or meals.

Since they began this disaster, I have noticed a desperation on the part of the salesmen to force this bill of goods down the throat of it's owners and potential owners. I always go to the presentations because I want the points, always learn something new, and like to joust with and outsmart them. The guy I had most recently in Hawaii was with them a week. I told him I knew more about the program that he did. He agreed! Then Cliff Pappas, an Assistant Manager came on board. I have dealt with this arrogant SOB before and this time was no more pleasant. They know they are peddling garbage and are having few takers.  Reflect that they brag they have 450,000 people enrolled in the program. In 2006, when I first purchased, they claimed 400,000. So if my math is correct, in 4 1/2 years they have only added 50,000 newbies. 

I have reported their antics and lies to corporate (who were not happy) previously, but only through phone calls. Whenever I get an evaluation via email,  I always ask to be contacted. It never happens, and I fill out two or three a year. In addition, the Sales Manager for the island (a very nice guy by the way) dropped down to salesman. The pressure on these guys must be tremendous.

All in all, watch out for Cliff and the other sharks.


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## BocaBoy (Nov 21, 2014)

leonidas said:


> I am a very happy MVCI owner, with two properties in Kauai, one in Aruba, and one in Myrtle Beach. All are week properties that I enrolled in the Destinations program when it came out in 2010. It may save me a dollar or two not to pay nickel and dime fees and it does offer me some flexibility.
> 
> Having said all of that, the program STINKS! I am a Premier Plus and I would have to give up ALL of my weeks for the year to take a one week "Excursion" to Napa Valley. This doesn't even include a girl for the week, a Ferrari, or meals.
> 
> ...



Well, MVCI has actually been very successful and I, for one, have also noticed a definite change toward MORE of a customer friendly focus since the spinoff than in the 2 or 3 years preceding it.  I am generally happy with the new program and most of what I see in their business practices.  There are isolated negatives, of course, but no organization is perfect.


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## Johnfi (Nov 22, 2014)

I’ve been watching the thread and sorry to hear the bad experiences as nobody should have to deal with the high pressure, low class sales tactics.  I purchased  around the time of the spinoff so I can’t compare what it was like in the past but I am guessing there were high pressure tactics and bad sales people back then also.  I’ve seen lots blame the perceived lower customer service, shift in business practices due to the spin-off and the fact it’s only a Marriott company in a licensed name.  While the name license is true, look at the officers and some of the board members, most have served their entire careers at Marriott international.  Not to mention look at the SEC filings for VAC as to who are beneficial individual stock owners with the last name of Marriott.  While VAC can do what they want, I think they continue to follow Marriott standard based on their history, training, management team and commitment to the brand.  

Boccaboy’s comments is what I would expect that many are happy with the new options and how the new company is operated.  Perhaps I’m biased as I have VAC in my portfolio buying back in Dec 2011 at the same time of my week/DC purchase (yes from the developer – it was before I knew about TUG).  However my small investment has appreciated +347%.  Gains like that are the result of a great product and continued growth.  

Again, sorry for the bad sales experiences, that’s not right.  I’m off to a few weeks at Ko Olina and KBC and I expect to get the calls from the sales team and still debating on sitting in on an update.  If I do end up attending I’ll politely tell them no thanks for a new purchase but glad they are continuing to drive and sell the product/brand just hope they do it in an ethical polite way.


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## jlepstein1 (Nov 22, 2014)

*A sales presentation and a free lunch*

DW and i stayed for five nights last week at Oceana Palms and we attended a sales presentation last Tuesday morning. Fortunately, the weather on Tuesday was awful (cold and wet) and so we did not feel bad about being indoors for 1.5 hours.  The salesman was friendly, polite, well spoken etc.  And he had obviously been drinking the Marriott coolaid.   I mentioned TUG a few times and the salesman knew immediately that we were knowledgeable about T/S.  He asked why we had come to the presentation--was it just for the reward ($100 prepaid Amex card) or was it to learn something?   I told him both, which is true.

In our case we own 4 Florida weeks, and have enrolled 3 of them. The fourth was a resale purchased after 2010 and is ineligible. We explained how we use the 4 weeks and how the points system compliments the weeks, enabling us to stretch a 7 day vacation to 10 or 11 days.  Our enrolled point total is 12,425 and the salesman kept trying to tell us about all the benefits we would gain by buying more points to become Premier Plus.  I told him that I would happily buy another 575 or even 1000 points to become Premier Plus, since it would enable us to reserve less than 7 days 13 months ahead, but that it was not worth paying $12 per point. He asked how much I would pay and I told him "maybe $3 per point all in" . He replied that $12 was a steal of a deal since the points originally sold for $9 and keep going up in price every year. And in a few years he is sure thay will sell for even more...possibly as much as $20! I told him that buying a point for $12 is like buying a Chevy for $175,000.  We went back and forth on this issue for a while until we were both thoroughly bored.  Then he tried to explain how owning a few trust points would enable me to access the entire trust inventory and I told him over and over again that I have no problem getting space at the times that I need it.  Again, we went back and forth on this issue with neither side agreeing with the other.  But I would say that the tone was very cordial and pleasant. After a bit over an hour, the salesman realized that we were not going to buy, and told us we could leave. That afternoon we went to lunch at Little Moir's in Jupiter, our favorite local restaurant, paid with our MVCI prepaid Amex card, and enjoyed the meal immensely.  Who says there's no such thing as a free lunch?


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## NJDave (Nov 23, 2014)

Overall all I am satisfied with my Marriott timeshare ownership.  I believe Marriott is the best in the industry.  However, I have found on occasion that the sales presentations are high pressure and the reps can be condescending. I often don't correct them because of the way they react. 

In particular, I found St Thomas to be the worst.  I had Alex S and Chez.  It was about 18 months ago, so they may not be there anymore.


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## jlr10 (Nov 26, 2014)

suzannesimon said:


> Their tactics must be successful.  Otherwise, they would get rid of them.  Sales people like that can bully people into contracts but they lose a lot of them during the rescission period.
> Enough of them must "stick" however to keep them employed.



My first job was in a furniture store. We had one salesman who sold large amounts of furniture on a daily basis, with his high pressure used car salesmen stereotypical type approach.  Over half of the sales were cancelled within 24 hours. After processing the paperwork on yet another cancellation I asked the owner why she allowed him to continue working there. Her response was half of the sales may cancel, but the sales that didn't cancel were twice as many as any of the other sales people who didn't have cancellation problems. I learned early that the salespeople will always win any argument as long as they bring in the sales.  I still work in customer service and still see the same pattern -If you work in sales you can  be a jerk and get away with it as long as you make the sales goals, regardless of how you reach the goal.


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## Talent312 (Nov 26, 2014)

jlepstein1 said:


> ...Who says there's no such thing as a free lunch?



You still did not get a free lunch. You pay for the "gift" by giving them your time and allowing them to box your ears during that time. Only you can decide if what they put on the nightstand was worth it.

Perhaps a forum just for "presentation" experiences outside of individual systems or resorts would be helpful, since they seem universal, not to name names (they're interchangeable), but to relate which use a hard-sell and which use a soft-sell (if any).
.


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## suzannesimon (Nov 26, 2014)

That would be good. I've heard that you can be literally kidnapped at the airport  in Cabo and taken to a presentation that lasts hours.


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## jlepstein1 (Nov 26, 2014)

*Yes, but*



Talent312 said:


> You still did not get a free lunch. You pay for the "gift" by giving them your time and allowing them to box your ears during that time. Only you can decide if what they put on the nightstand was worth it.
> 
> I agree fully, but on the other hand I actually enjoy these presentations as an opportunity to learn something (usually) and to do some dueling with the salesperson. However, DW hates them, feels it is dishonest to take the incentive when you have no intention to purchase, resents being cooped up in a room etc. So that is the major downside and the way that I "pay" for my free lunch.
> 
> ...



good idea!


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## dje1962 (Nov 27, 2014)

*Our experience with Marriott*

I have been an owner with Marriott for 12 years and I have never had an experience like this - in fact the opposite.
My sales executive is Shelley Wetteland and she has always taken care of us, given us the best advice, been there for us, helped us and gone out of her way to go above and beyond since we bought with her over 10 years ago and still she stays in contact! She is at Oceana Palms. I have met Anthony , at Oceana and he is nothing like the person described in the week 46 report.
I now own in 4 different Marriott resorts - N. America, Europe and Thailand and have always had a good experience with the sakes people.


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## bazzap (Nov 27, 2014)

dje1962 said:


> I have been an owner with Marriott for 12 years and I have never had an experience like this - in fact the opposite.
> My sales executive is Shelley Wetteland and she has always taken care of us, given us the best advice, been there for us, helped us and gone out of her way to go above and beyond since we bought with her over 10 years ago and still she stays in contact! She is at Oceana Palms. I have met Anthony , at Oceana and he is nothing like the person described in the week 46 report.
> I now own in 4 different Marriott resorts - N. America, Europe and Thailand and have always had a good experience with the sakes people.


I believe having a consistent sales exec you stay in touch with is probably key here.
You are very lucky and this is probably increasingly the exception to the rule.
Over a similar timeframe to you, we also had good relationships with one or two sales execs but sadly they have now moved on and the result has been at the very least variable since then.


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## bogey21 (Nov 27, 2014)

Many years ago I went on a presentation.  It was Starwood in Myrtle Beach.  I decided never again would I subject myself to such abuse.  I changed my approach to getting information at the Hyatts, HGVCs, Marriotts, etc.  

What I did was go into the Sales Office when they weren't busy and ask to see some units.  I was always accommodated with a sales person to show me around.  As we walked around I would ask my questions.  Never was I refused a private sales person tour and most of the time my questions were answered honestly.

George


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## LannyPC (Nov 29, 2014)

jlr10 said:


> If you work in sales you can  be a jerk and get away with it as long as you make the sales goals, regardless of how you reach the goal.



Kind of like some "professional" sports athletes.  As long as they're hitting home runs, scoring touchdowns, scoring goals, and ultimately bringing in fans and viewers, for the most part, it matters little what the athlete is like in person or does off the field.


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## LannyPC (Nov 29, 2014)

bogey21 said:


> What I did was go into the Sales Office when they weren't busy and ask to see some units.  I was always accommodated with a sales person to show me around.  As we walked around I would ask my questions.  Never was I refused a private sales person tour and most of the time my questions were answered honestly.



Correct me if I'm wrong here but I'm guessing you were not offered any "gift" for touring.  Assuming that is the case, that's one explanation for the difference between pleasant and unpleasant sales experiences.

I did the same thing about five years ago.  Out of curiosity, I walked into the sales offices of three different resorts.  The key is I was not given any sort of gift to attend.  I asked if I could see some units and the sales people gladly showed me some.  I asked a few questions and they answered.  They also gave me business cards and portfolios explaining the different prices and units.  For each, I was in and out within about 15 minutes without all the "You must buy today..", "How much did you pay for your hotel", etc.


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## bogey21 (Nov 29, 2014)

LannyPC said:


> Correct me if I'm wrong here but I'm guessing you were not offered any "gift" for touring.



You are right.   In fact I always started my conversation with "Please understand that I'm not here for a gift, just information".  The only place that insisted on giving me something was one of the Marriotts in Vail.  They insisted on giving me two very nice large towels.

Georgee


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## silentg (Nov 29, 2014)

We don't go to timeshare meetings, owner updates, info meetings or anything they call it. I have told them at check in, I am here to do all the things you told me I could do when I purchased our first timeshare week in 1980. Overall, we have enjoyed our timeshares, but I feel like they should leave you alone if that is what you prefer. We have gone to presentations and always feel like we are wasting our time and theirs too! No more for me, let us use what we have, a vacation!


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## Swice (Dec 1, 2014)

*Lakeshore presentation*

Presentation at Lakeshore Reserve -- Thanksgiving week.


Welcome desk told us it would be a 60-minute presentation.   It lasted nearly two hours WITHOUT us engaging or prolonging.
I give the sales rep credit.   He checked our history before we walked in and knew our properties and the number of times we had attended a presentation.   However, that did not stop him from tailoring/shortening his pitch
Sales rep repeatedly told us Marriott had added "villas" in urban locations-- New York, Chicago, New Orleans, Asheville NC, etc.  He repeated this so many times I finally questioned his use of the word "villas."   I said, "aren't they just hotel rooms?"   He insisted they were "villas."
He said they would be building, "from the ground up," a location in southern California near San Diego.
Said the category level would be changing in the next two weeks.    I am already premier.   If what he says is true, sounds like there would be an additional category.
He trashed Tug and said you can't believe anything you read on TUG.   "We sit around and laugh at what's written on there."

He was pleasant, but the fact that he insisted on calling hotel rooms "villas" turned me off.    BTW, I checked later and they are all at hotels.   There is an option for a "suite" at the Essex House in NYC.    One night would cost me more "points" than a week of timeshare.    I did not see "suite" options at other hotel properties.


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## SueDonJ (Dec 1, 2014)

bazzap said:


> *I believe having a consistent sales exec you stay in touch with is probably key here*.
> You are very lucky and this is probably increasingly the exception to the rule.
> Over a similar timeframe to you, we also had good relationships with one or two sales execs but sadly they have now moved on and the result has been at the very least variable since then.



I agree with what's bolded - we have had very good experiences with the one sales rep who handled all of our purchases.  IF we were looking for more I'd definitely contact her either when we're onsite or over the phone.

We decline all invites that come our way but like some reports here, we've never been hounded with repeat calls or requests after saying "no" to the pre-stay call/email or during the check-in process (despite sometimes using the "concierge" connection for actual concierge services.)  I don't know what's different for us but I'm thankful for whatever it is!

That said, I don't see anything wrong with attending presentations fully intending to decline a purchase and collect the offered gift.  That's the way the system is supposed to work - anybody who chooses to participate should be able to do so without feeling like they've been abused.

I wonder what would happen if we were to accept an invite but bring a printed copy of the Points FAQ along with a printed copy of the Exchange Procedures document.  It's in the back of my mind to do that one of these years.


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## jme (Dec 1, 2014)

SueDonJ said:


> I agree with what's bolded - we have had very good experiences with the one sales rep who handled all of our purchases.  IF we were looking for more I'd definitely contact her either when we're onsite or over the phone.
> 
> We decline all invites that come our way but like some reports here, we've never been hounded with repeat calls or requests after saying "no" to the pre-stay call/email or during the check-in process (despite sometimes using the "concierge" connection for actual concierge services.)  I don't know what's different for us but I'm thankful for whatever it is!
> 
> ...



There's nothing wrong with happily collecting the gift, or with saying that's why you attended. After all, they *invited* you (important word), stating such things as "we'd like to update you on the latest....",  and "we want to show you all the NEW possibilities and NEW properties....".  

Seldom does anyone show up at a presentation unless they were invited. Susan, as you know, at Barony, after checking in, they immediately send you across the lobby to the desk where the "concierge" (cough, cough) signs you up for the presentation right there and then. It always seems like they're saying that as a last requirement for checking in, so naturally everyone goes to that desk. They don't say it's to sign up, they just say "go over there".

When asked at my last presentation by the rep (for the very first time ever) "Why did you attend when you had no intention of buying?", I said "because you invited me to learn about the NEW information"  (and NOT about how I'd like to pay for my new purchase). 

BUYING was never mentioned as a prerequisite for attending!!! She said nothing of course, and I later called the sales manager and gave her a scathing report. That was insulting, and the only time it ever happened to me, but next time I'll be ready and I'll address the rep personally, and I have a feeling they might suddenly feel embarrassed, as they should. This was a higher-up sales rep at Grande Vista. Smart as a whip about the system, but that question was rude and uncalled for.


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## SueDonJ (Dec 1, 2014)

jme said:


> There's nothing wrong with happily collecting the gift, or with saying that's why you attended. After all, they *invited* you (important word), stating such things as "we'd like to update you on the latest....",  and "we want to show you all the NEW possibilities and NEW properties....".
> 
> Seldom does anyone show up at a presentation unless they were invited. Susan, as you know, at Barony, after checking in, they immediately send you across the lobby to the desk where the "concierge" (cough, cough) signs you up for the presentation right there and then. It always seems like they're saying that as a last requirement for checking in, so naturally everyone goes to that desk. They don't say it's to sign up, they just say "go over there".
> 
> ...



We're saying the same thing, aren't we?  There's absolutely nothing wrong with attending and collecting the gift when that's what we're invited to do, regardless of whether or not we purchase.  And we should be able to expect a good experience, not the horror shows that are reported here.

For our Hilton Head stays we always get the call a week or two before and always say no, but take the concierge's name and number just in case we want to use the true concierge services.  At Barony and SurfWatch after checking in we head over to the concierge/sales rep desk to collect the restaurant/activity guides.  It then takes all of twenty seconds to say thank you but we're not interested in a sales presentation, we're already very happy with what we own and what we can do with it, and yes we keep up with the latest offers.  We've done the same at every stay and like I said, we haven't ever experienced any continuing harassment or a refusal for true concierge services.

We're checking in to Timber Lodge in a few days, will let you know if our good streak comes to an end.  I've already declined the email invite and haven't heard anything back.  

Marty, Don and I are at the JW San Francisco now and it's as good as you said it would be!  We're in a junior suite with access to the concierge lounge that's open 24/7 and they couldn't be more attentive.  Great hotel, good location, Christmas is in the air all around.  It's just what we need.


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## Beefnot (Dec 1, 2014)

If one genuinely has no intention to purchase, I'd say go into these presentations with a mindset of amusement at what lies and sales tactics you get to experience.  Find humor in the lies and abuse, especially when you tell them "no thank you".  If you don't mind staying a while longer, you can even get a kick out of rebutting the sales guys.  Don't internalize anything they say to you.  They don't know you, nor will they eat your children.  Just remain amused and tell yourself that you can't wait to post about this hilarious encounter on TUG!


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## Ann in CA (Dec 1, 2014)

SueDonJ;

We're checking in to Timber Lodge in a few days said:


> When we were at Timber Lodge last month, we were asked to attend a presentation, but had just been to a presentation a couple of weeks before in Maui. The concierge said that didn't matter, but we really did not want to sit through another there anyway, since last Spring we had done a presentation at Timber Lodge. It was relatively well done until we really did not buy (we had told them we would not, but I had a couple of questions) when the "friendly" presenter turned borderline rude.
> 
> However the concierge was so charming in her low key efforts to sign us up, I almost wanted to do it just for her. However, with no guarantee we'd not get the same "gentleman",  and with my husband saying "Never again!", we skipped another "owner update". We have always been impressed with the staff at Timber Lodge, however, and with the ice skating rink open it is quite festive this time of year. Have a great visit!


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## jme (Dec 1, 2014)

SueDonJ said:


> We're saying the same thing, aren't we?  There's absolutely nothing wrong with attending and collecting the gift when that's what we're invited to do, regardless of whether or not we purchase.  And we should be able to expect a good experience, not the horror shows that are reported here.
> 
> For our Hilton Head stays we always get the call a week or two before and always say no, but take the concierge's name and number just in case we want to use the true concierge services.  At Barony and SurfWatch after checking in we head over to the concierge/sales rep desk to collect the restaurant/activity guides.  It then takes all of twenty seconds to say thank you but we're not interested in a sales presentation, we're already very happy with what we own and what we can do with it, and yes we keep up with the latest offers.  We've done the same at every stay and like I said, we haven't ever experienced any continuing harassment or a refusal for true concierge services.
> 
> ...



Susan, of course we're saying the same thing.....we always agree. (didn't mean to insinuate otherwise)

And I'm so glad you're at the JW in San Francisco (don't worry, I'll never lead you astray!)------we had a most delightful stay there in late September, and yes, the concierge lounge is fantastic. One of Marriott's best, I think, and open 24/7 as you said.   Has a great hot breakfast, and wine and wonderful snacks, heavy hors d'oeuvres, and DESSERTS in the evening!!!  You could even make a nice meal out of it, if not for the awesome restaurants all around.  And the older gentleman is fantastic!!!    I was also impressed with the wine selections. We kept ordering bottles.  It improves the views, LOL, which aren't so bad anyway!!!! (Only the New Orleans Renaissance Hotel's concierge lounge was comparable, imho---great food!!!! Gumbo and various soups, Po'Boys and other sandwiches, and great desserts, etc...wow).

After a couple of days we were so used to walking out of the hotel and hitting the streets ----- never used a map------didn't think twice about which way to go for whatever, just did it naturally with no second thoughts----we knew where everything was! We love to walk!   Make sure you know what's happening in Union Square in the evenings---we chanced upon a great dance band where this dance club (and anyone else who wished to join in) kept things going for a couple of hours. It was awesome to watch everyone having a good time, and every minute or so everybody would change partners. Lots of Swing Music and other types.  About half were local dance club members and the other half were passers-by who wanted to shake a leg. Fun, fun, as everybody intermingled.  Be watching out for that, or something similar. 

great little French cafe within walking distance, hidden in an alley but frequented by locals, called Cafe Claude. Romantic and so "big city chic" to find a little hole in the wall that was so sophisticated. 
Walk Market Street too----- great fun, and can duck into many nice places, shops or restaurants, or Starbucks.  Especially at this time of year!!!! Every restaurant must feel so cozy!!!!! VERY jealous, Wish we were there!!!!

Enjoy, Susan and Don!!! You guys deserve it!!!!! (and tell me all about it later)




.


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## billymach4 (Mar 22, 2015)

Well this issue is in my past but I just thought today that I would perform a few keystrokes on linkedin using Anthony and Marriott Vacations and I got a hit.

Was able to cross ref an Anthony at West Palm Beach working for Marriott Vacations. Used the full First and Last name to do a google search and found his FB profile with Photos and all. Bingo! There he was in full Public View.

Apparently this particular individual has been working for MVW for well over 10 years. So it is apparent to me that Marriott tolerates this misbehavior.


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## WFP (Mar 24, 2015)

We were at Ocean Point Dec 22-25. 2014 and then down to Beachplace for three more days before leaving on a Holiday cruise.  Before arriving at OP, we were invited to an Update Meeting at Oceana Palms.  We accepted and took a walk up there fo the meeting.  

We had a forgettable salesperson who just kept hitting us the wrong way.  They seem to have a playbook and she did not want to stray from it.  At the 90 Minute mark, we said we were done.  Twenty minutes later, and two more unfriendly sales team member discussions,  we finally got out of there.  

Never again.

We probably do not fill the mold of their buyers as we actually don't own the three timeshares but as Trustee, we have authority.  We don't know if we will keep ownership after the Trust is distributed in the future but this most recent Update is swaying us AWAY from ownership.

/WFP


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## icydog (Mar 24, 2015)

I have to weigh in here.  I certainly do NOT think rude behavior is acceptable by a salesperson in any context. 

However

I believe the OP came into the presentation smarting for an argument.  Why would you tell him you knew he was telling falsehoods. Why mention TUG at all? Did you want your reward but yet had to rub the salesman's face in your "knowledge". 

I'm sure your wife was uncomfortable because of the confrontational attitude in the room.  I would be uncomfortable too.  Whenever I attend a sales meeting like this I keep my mouth shut. I listen for my hour, which should be the time of an educational tour, and ask a couple of questions. Then when they're done, and I have assured them I'm not intersted in what they're selling, I leave the with my gift card in tow.

Life's too short to engage in battles like this. Yes, you were right in your timeshare knowledge at the presentation, but who cares? You were in his space and you openly challenged him. How, exactly, did you think that would be helpful? How' did that work out for you?  My guess is both you AND your wife were sick about this for days, and from your post above, it seems to have lasted for months.


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## Saintsfanfl (Mar 24, 2015)

icydog said:


> Why would you tell him you knew he was telling falsehoods.



Not to speak for the OP but sometimes it can be very difficult to keep quite when you know a statement to be clearly false, especially when it is made out to be a selling point. That said, there are tactful ways to go about relating the knowledge without it being combative. What I do is say "Are you sure it's x? I am pretty sure it's actually y?" At this point they leave to find out the correct answer. If I did encounter a know-it-all that continued the false charade I would probably say "ok" and finish the presentation. There is definitely nothing to be gained from an argument, but sometimes it's hard.


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## Old Hickory (Mar 24, 2015)

icydog said:


> I have to weigh in here.  I certainly do NOT think rude behavior is acceptable by a salesperson in any context.
> 
> However
> 
> ...



I agree with this post.  Every word.


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## Beefnot (Mar 24, 2015)

Old Hickory said:


> I agree with this post. Every word.


 
Funny thing is I disagreed with that post. Almost every word. If someone is telling falsehoods, there should be nothing inappropriate about telling that person what the truth is. I struggle to think of many other walks of life where it is somehow a virtue not to point out deliberate inaccuracies or falsehoods by those telling them.


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## KathyPet (Mar 25, 2015)

I wonder what a salesperson would say if you told them you were very unhappy with your Marriott purchases and were there for the points only.  Would they attempt to sell you more DC points if you told them you were unhappy owners?


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## SueDonJ (Mar 25, 2015)

KathyPet said:


> I wonder what a salesperson would say if you told them you were very unhappy with your Marriott purchases and were there for the points only.  Would they attempt to sell you more DC points if you told them you were unhappy owners?



Maybe.  Some never deviate from the script no matter what you say, some will get an attitude thinking that you're wasting their time, others might react anywhere in the middle of those two extremes.  Unless you know the sales person there's no way to predict their reaction.


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## silentg (Mar 25, 2015)

Pretty scary to have "Thugs" posted outside the room. This is supposed to be vacation sales not police interrogation!


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## billymach4 (Mar 25, 2015)

icydog said:


> I have to weigh in here.  I certainly do NOT think rude behavior is acceptable by a salesperson in any context.
> 
> However
> 
> I believe the OP came into the presentation smarting for an argument.  Why would you tell him you knew he was telling falsehoods. Why mention TUG at all? Did you want your reward but yet had to rub the salesman's face in your "knowledge".



ICY,

You are mistaken. Did not go in with an attitude. I was set up by this guy. They have my profile of weeks. They know what my portfolio consist of pre 06/2010, and post 06/2010. I simply don't want to maintain 2 separate II accounts and the salesman was flat out wrong. I stood by my comments, and he and the manager have a different and incorrect script. In St. Thomas at least the manager admitted I was correct.


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## jme (Mar 25, 2015)

KathyPet said:


> I wonder what a salesperson would say if you told them you were very unhappy with your Marriott purchases and were there for the points only.  Would they attempt to sell you more DC points if you told them you were unhappy owners?



Heck, I'd never say that or anything close. I always say we're on the verge of buying points, but this or that is preventing us now. Then we keep getting invitations to do presentations, and more gifts of points........we put them to great use.  I have no problem with spending 90 minutes and then going to get a great breakfast.......makes for a great day.  

Don't understand folks who say they won't "waste their precious vacation time" doing a presentation.... 90 min???  really?  It gives me 3 nights at Grande Ocean.



.


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## Old Hickory (Mar 26, 2015)

Beefnot said:


> Funny thing is I disagreed with that post. Almost every word. If someone is telling falsehoods, there should be nothing inappropriate about telling that person what the truth is. I struggle to think of many other walks of life where it is somehow a virtue not to point out deliberate inaccuracies or falsehoods by those telling them.



How were you able to tell who was telling falsehoods and who was telling the truth in a one-sided story? 

I struggle to believe the anonymous social media user who is seeking validation for their behavior.


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## Beefnot (Mar 26, 2015)

Old Hickory said:


> How were you able to tell who was telling falsehoods and who was telling the truth in a one-sided story?
> 
> I struggle to believe the anonymous social media user who is seeking validation for their behavior.


 
Of course this is a one-sided story, but that is beside the point.  Why should someone not be entitled to point out _[what they perceive as] _falsehoods delivered by the seller of the product?  How is that somehow inappropriate?  If I was at a car dealership and the salesperson was saying _[what I perceived to be] _inaccurate statements about the car he was trying to sell or about other cars in that category, why is it somehow a far more noble endeavor to simply listen politely, say 'no thank you', and then be on my way?


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## Saintsfanfl (Mar 26, 2015)

Beefnot said:


> why is it somehow a far more noble endeavor to simply listen politely, say 'no thank you', and then be on my way?



Because don't we know we are going to be lied to before we go to the presentation? Isn't that the expectation? Why are we there? If it is only the reward then we are purposefully wasting the salesperson's time, so why rub salt in it?

I'm not speaking specifically on the OP's story, but more the goal of a presentation in general. I have to think that listening, telling a few "polite" stories of resale experiences, and saying no thank you is the best medicine to endure a presentation.


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## Beefnot (Mar 26, 2015)

Saintsfanfl said:


> Because don't we know we are going to be lied to before we go to the presentation? Isn't that the expectation? Why are we there? If it is only the reward then we are purposefully wasting the salesperson's time, so why rub salt in it?
> 
> I'm not speaking specifically on the OP's story, but more the goal of a presentation in general. I have to think that listening, telling a few "polite" stories of resale experiences, and saying no thank you is the best medicine to endure a presentation.


 
I absolutely agree that we, at least we TUGgers, should expect that we are going to be lied to.  And I also agree with the "best medicine".  But again, I find those to be secondary matters.  Where I differ is that I do not find it inappropriate to point out inaccuracies.  I do find it inappropriate for the liar to double down on rudeness and deceit when the inaccuracies are called out.


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## suzannesimon (Mar 26, 2015)

Saintsfanfl said:


> Because don't we know we are going to be lied to before we go to the presentation? Isn't that the expectation? Why are we there? If it is only the reward then we are purposefully wasting the salesperson's time, so why rub salt in it?
> 
> I'm not speaking specifically on the OP's story, but more the goal of a presentation in general. I have to think that listening, telling a few "polite" stories of resale experiences, and saying no thank you is the best medicine to endure a presentation.



As much as I would like to take the high road and keep my mouth shut when I'm being lied to, it is absolutely impossible for me to do so.  I need to , politely, question their assertions that I know to be incorrect.  The last presentation I attended a couple years ago was in Aruba.  I called him out on his first "error" and after that was extremely truthful and cordial.


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## dioxide45 (Mar 26, 2015)

We have been on at least 19 tour presentations with MVCI, all for points. Never bought a week or DC points. I have run the gamut of the types of experiences that we could have, from argumentative, to rude sales reps, to listening and asking no questions and a simple "no" at the end. The easiest by far are the latter, the former are the ones we wish we had never taken. Much easier to just nod, get out there with your give and move on.


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## JudyS (Mar 27, 2015)

billymach4 said:


> ...He then go so desperate and said that "Why did you bother coming here today if you know you are not going to buy"....


Here's the answer I would give: "Because your resort's concierge told me this was just an 'an owner update' about 'exciting things happening at the resort.'" 

"It's just an owners' update" -- isn't that what all the resorts say to owners?


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## anthonystack (Apr 25, 2015)

*I'm sorry but there is not much of a TUG effect*

I just read this, obviously, old post but I had to comment... There really is not much of a TUG effect on the timeshare industry...

I sold timeshare for Wyndham and had to quit because of the ridiculous lies.. all be it small lies... Wyndham is not as bad as some and there still has to be some personal responsibility when making a $20,000+ purchase. The Wyndham I worked at recorded the quality control conversations where all the points of the contract were gone over... a new program Wyndham instituted at select resorts to combat lawsuits...  

The lies I am talking about are ..."no, this credit check will not appear on your report"... things that would not be gone over in quality control. 

But I digress... I think TUGS has 76,000 members... that's a lot but still only about 1.5% of the 5,000,000 people that own timeshare. I NEVER ONCE HEARD ANYONE MENTION TUGS. 

Wyndham preys on lower middle class clientele... It's really a joke among salespeople... why waste 2 hours (it's always more) for a couple of free tickets to a crappy show or discounted tickets to a good show... because you can't afford to buy the tickets outright. I don't mean to offend anyone but if you can afford the tickets or whatever it is your getting why would you sit through a high pressure sales pitch... or better yet, why would you make your significant other sit through a sale pitch... (can't go alone unless you are an affluent female)...

The most repulsive thing anyone ever said to me was, "I can't believe you do this job"... My answer was, "I am paid to be here, why would put yourself and wife through this... that's a much better question... If we weren't here, you wouldn't be able to get $100 worth of free gambling". I can take a lot of crap but don't try to be high and mighty when your getting paid to be there. I didn't see a gun pointed at anyone making them stay.

All that being said, I am glad I'm out of the timeshare sale game.


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## jme (Apr 25, 2015)

anthonystack said:


> I just read this, obviously, old post but I had to comment... There really is not much of a TUG effect on the timeshare industry...
> 
> I sold timeshare for Wyndham and had to quit because of the ridiculous lies.. all be it small lies... Wyndham is not as bad as some and there still has to be some personal responsibility when making a $20,000+ purchase. The Wyndham I worked at recorded the quality control conversations where all the points of the contract were gone over... a new program Wyndham instituted at select resorts to combat lawsuits...
> 
> ...





In all fairness I would have never bought anything, and had many years of unbelievably great trips all over the USA and world, had it not been for one great sales guy.  He was honest and became a good friend. So my thoughts as to timeshare salesmen/saleswomen is a good one---perhaps an anomaly. 

Likewise, nobody would own a timeshare if not for sales people in general, so I would like to acknowledge those that are good decent people. The others are out there, and we all agree it's unfortunate. There are sneaky, slithering salespeople in every business, not just the timeshare business.  I'm glad you're out if you were unhappy....hope you found something better. 

TUG is a very valuable resource but unfortunately not many ever discover it until after a purchase. Its effect is probably negligible as you say, but it sure is fun and informative for those of us here. We think we have an impact but maybe we think too highly of ourselves. 

Thanks for your insight, and don't hold any animosity for us owners.  We just seek the best for our families, and we on TUG have a cross-section of personality types here too.  Best to you in the future, and again, thanks for having the boldness to share.


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## anthonystack (Apr 25, 2015)

jme said:


> In all fairness I would have never bought anything, and had many years of unbelievably great trips all over the USA and world, had it not been for one great sales guy.  He was honest and became a good friend. So my thoughts as to timeshare salesmen/saleswomen is a good one---perhaps an anomaly.
> 
> Likewise, nobody would own a timeshare if not for sales people in general, so I would like to acknowledge those that are good decent people. The others are out there, and we all agree it's unfortunate. There are sneaky, slithering salespeople in every business, not just the timeshare business.  I'm glad you're out if you were unhappy....hope you found something better.
> 
> ...




I re-read my post and some of it sounded a little harsh... I did not mean it that way... I originally got into timeshare sales because I believe in vacations and what it does for families... I smelt a rat from day one when it was a "now or never" sale... something good should never have to be that way.

I truly believe timeshare is sold the way it is because there is still leftover salespeople and attitudes from the days of unregulated sales...

Wyndham pays $600-$800 per tour that walks through the door and only sells 2 out of 10... They pay between $3000 - $4000 for each sale. if they could find a way to lower that number and pay less commission per sale to the salespeople (and lower other marketing costs) then they would sell more units producing the same gross commission (by way of more sales per tour). bottom line is there is a market for retail (sears, Macy's, Nordstroms , etc) and re-sale / discount (ross, goodwill, etc). It would be the same with timeshare. The problem now is that the timeshare retail market is so out of whack compared to the re-sale / discount market.


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## jerseyfinn (Apr 26, 2015)

This thread's been an interesting read. Moving beyond the "perceived rudeness" of the OPs sales rep, I come to some of my own conclusions.


TUG is a great source for travel & TS info, but in the larger scheme of the TS universe, we TUGgers are a *distinct minority*. Yeah, I know it doesn't feel that way here. Our virtual community here feels cozy & ubiquitous. But the majority of folks at our Marriott resorts know nothing of TUG ( or the mechanics of timeshare & the Marriott bait & switch ). Marriott counts on this fact when it comes to shucking and shilling their product to the uninitiated preview guest.


None of us really know how well this "new and improved" Marriott product is really doing in the sense of the  * sales bottom line*. The stock has certainly fared well. If one believes Marriott, the VC points program is the best thing on planet earth since oxygen. But I also think that most of us intuitively know better.



The irony is  that we Marriott owners are in an unusual position. Marriott kills off the program which appealed to our TS tastes & TS interest leaving we legacy folks high and dry . . .  well almost anyhow  . Marriott treads lightly around we legacy folks as it must avoid screwing us completely. Hence the no brainer move for we legacy owners, especially multiple week owners was to enroll our weeks. Learn the ropes of our new situation & you can do OK. But doing OK is not the same thing as embracing points.


 Marriott is in the uncomfortable position of smiling at we legacy folks & letting the clock run as they try to build up momentum in the new program which will slowly compete against us. Marriott is in this gig for the long haul. So goes the drudgery of smiling at we legacy folks & any other human with a pulse who in the hope of enticing them to spend 90 minutes listening to their empty sales pitch. Face it, buying points is *not* the smart thing to do unless you're an enrolled legacy owner topping off.


So the Marriott sales game goes on and on. Just like TS in general, there's lots of ways to play the preview game. My wife and I avoid all Marriott contact and eschew the smiling reps. We hold our noses, keep to ourselves & enjoy our resort destinations. For others, a 90 minute preview interlude has utility in perks and points. The "prey" Marriott most lusts after are those folks who know nothing of our own TS past who have money to drop into this costly "new and improved" product.

What I do know is that the face of change appears all around we legacy owners. You need be taciturn & circumspect to see the tell tale signs. Ocean Pointe still has its winter legions of snow birds who double down on their platinum weeks & do the lock-off two step. But their numbers slowly decline as some of these elders fade away. This combined with the foreclosure turnover several years back slowly alters the demographic. It's all around you if you do your "research" at your resort bars & you get a handle on who is there and why.

Marriott gladly accommodates we returning legacy owners. But they aspire more the non TS preview crowd who lack the TS wisdom that we TUGgers take for granted.

Well, that's how I see the Marriott game.

Barry


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## Steve A (Apr 26, 2015)

We just returned from the Marriott grand château where we had our first timeshare tour in years.  The sales person was pretty  arrogant and insulting. He couldn't understand why we wanted to vacation for seven days at a time and insisted that other people only wanted two or three days and that's why we should buy points. He also couldn't understand why we moved to Hilton Head and didn't golf.  He pretty much told us that we would have difficulty in the future getting weeks and wouldn't agree that the present weeks program works well for us, which it does. We are not interested for example in spending all day flying to Las Vegas, or Palm Desert where we also go on a yearly basis, and then stay for two days. I just wanted it to be over so I didn't get in an argument with him.


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## taffy19 (Apr 26, 2015)

jme said:


> In all fairness I would have never bought anything, and had many years of unbelievably great trips all over the USA and world, had it not been for one great sales guy.  He was honest and became a good friend. So my thoughts as to timeshare salesmen/saleswomen is a good one---perhaps an anomaly.
> 
> Likewise, nobody would own a timeshare if not for sales people in general, so I would like to acknowledge those that are good decent people. The others are out there, and we all agree it's unfortunate. There are sneaky, slithering salespeople in every business, not just the timeshare business.  I'm glad you're out if you were unhappy....hope you found something better.
> 
> ...


Our sales lady, at the Maui Ocean Club, was also very professional and stayed that way after we walked out of the sales presentation not buying a fixed week/unit at the MM1.  

We told her how unhappy we were with our floating timeshare week at the MDSV-I and would only buy a fixed week/unit.  She told us that the new Villas were that way and that we could upgrade too but we said no as we had no intention in buying but we fell in love with the location (Ka'anapali Beach) and the beautiful grounds and super pool we saw.

We kept thinking about it and went back the next day and talked to her again after she had done her last presentation and one more time after that.  Then we finally decided to buy but she wasn't in the sales office when we called.

Everyone wanted to do the sale (paperwork) but we said no and called Corporate instead.  They said that we could do it through them but we said that we would wait until she would come back to the office and they called her in and we did the paperwork.

She told us that hardly ever a person  will come back if they walk out of a presentation but there are people who will buy without even taking a presentation.  I agree with jme that there are good sales people around who care about their prospects and also after a sale is made.

Guess who came to visit us last week?  Our sales lady with her two kids.  She stopped working there about the time when the trust was introduced and is in general real estate now and I'll bet that she will be just as professional there.


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## billymach4 (Sep 3, 2018)

Bump up for SteveFautla


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## Steve Fatula (Sep 3, 2018)

billymach4 said:


> Bump up for SteveFautla





It can happen. What's your point? Certainly doesn't change our view. 50 presentations over 20 years, never walked out. Some (many) hate them. If I averaged $150 each over those 20 years, that's $7,500. More $ lately, less earlier. Those who don't like them, definitely, don't go! Would never say otherwise. It just doesn't mean some of us enjoy going.  

When they are bad, they apparently are bad from what I have read on TUG. I feel sorry for those that get bad ones, no doubt. Not sure how it is we don't get bad ones. Is our outlook different than others? No idea, but, we will continue to go until our experience is otherwise. < 2 hours out of a couple weeks trip is nada for us. We have nothing but time! We like free things.


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## Steve A (Sep 3, 2018)

Steve A said:


> We just returned from the Marriott grand château where we had our first timeshare tour in years.  The sales person was pretty  arrogant and insulting. He couldn't understand why we wanted to vacation for seven days at a time and insisted that other people only wanted two or three days and that's why we should buy points. He also couldn't understand why we moved to Hilton Head and didn't golf.  He pretty much told us that we would have difficulty in the future getting weeks and wouldn't agree that the present weeks program works well for us, which it does. We are not interested for example in spending all day flying to Las Vegas, or Palm Desert where we also go on a yearly basis, and then stay for two days. I just wanted it to be over so I didn't get in an argument with him.



  I was reading this thread and much to my surprise I found a contribution I made it April 2015, above. We have never gone to another presentation because of our experience cited above.  Although I have enjoyed my time shares immensely, and use them to the fullest, I’ve never drank the Marriott Kool-Aid.  As far as I can see, Marriott is turning into Westgate.


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