# If you buy Used, you lose benefits!  Really?



## garcmanu (May 27, 2013)

First off, thanks for reading!

My wife and I visited Breckenridge, CO this weekend and attended your usual timeshare presentation.  It may be important for me to mention that the company is a "developer" and we had been there about 6 months prior, declined the offer, but purchased a "sampling" for $995. The deal included a weekend stay at Breck in a 2 bedroom suite, free massages for 2, $75 in gift certificates for resort restaurants and access to one "getaway" for gold member prices. 

Prior to yesterday's session I read several articles about purchasing used timeshares versus new, including one from ABC News, which referenced this forum. The theme off all the articles was that you would be crazy to buy new when used can be had at a fraction of he new purchase price. 

When presenting this to our saleswoman who was VERY good, she rebuttaled with the following:

1) the development company has the right to purchase the property prior to closing and then add back into their property (when I asked if the property was free and clear how that could be done legally, she did no as address the question)

2). You are not entitled to certain benefits such as "gold status" and you cannot take advantage of their "getaway" program which allows you great prices on hotels and resorts. 

3)You are always in the back of the "queue" for scheduling


When asked where in the paperwork of an original sale this was, the saleswoman pointed out the following clause:

"The club membership rights specified above are conditioned upon acceptance of your offer to purchase during your initial visit to the xxxxxxxxx.  These club membership rights are only available by purchasing your ownership DIRECTLY from xxxxxxxxxxxx. 

Is this true?  How is it legal if true?  We own zero timeshares, are interested, but why buy new if used can be had much, much cheaper.  However, if benefits are lost this may change things.


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## falmouth3 (May 27, 2013)

OK, so I'm not familiar with this TS or the company that it is affiliated with.  However, I think if you do some research here, you will find that most (but not all) will tell you that the membership is not worth the thousands of dollars that you will be paying for it.  If it is a Hilton or Marriott, there is a right of first refusal, which is the when the company can decided to buy it from the seller instead of letting you have it.  It does happen sometimes, but in the last few years, it wasn't happening much because the companies already had more on their books than they could sell.  So if it does happen, what happens to you?  Nothing - you get your money back and you try again.

I've never bought from a developer, but let me tell you my experience with booking weeks.  I have two resorts with "floating weeks", which means that I can select any week within my assigned time period.  In my case, I have 52 week floats so I can book anytime in the year.  One year to the day before I want to check in, I call the resort and book my week.  Voila, I have it booked.  I've never had them say that I can't have it. And I pick Easter week, which is a popular week at both resorts.

The rules for your resort company may be different, but I'd bet you can get most time periods you'd be interested in.

I'm sure you will hear from many more people who can give you more specific advice, but you will hear over and over not to buy from the developer.

Take a look at eBay and see what types of prices your resort has sold for.  There's a good likelihood that there are some that were asking $1 and they couldn't get even one bid.  I just did a search on "timeshare Breckenridge"  There are a few current listings.  At the top of the window of that search results page, click on "Completed Listings" and see what kind of bids each resort drew.  Eye opening?

Good luck!


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## K2Quick (May 27, 2013)

It is very common for many developers to offer benefits to those who purchase from the developer and to withhold those benefits from those buying on the resale market.  The extent to which the benefits differ between developer and resale purchases varies massively among the different developers.  My response to your salesperson would have been, "Why would I want to buy an interval from your company knowing you're doing everything in your power to destroy its resale value once its in my name?" (I actually would never have been in that situation, though, since I've never been to a timeshare presentation and have no intentions of doing so in the future).

One other thing to note.  There is no such thing as a "new" timeshare - they're all "used" once the first night of occupancy has occurred.


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## timeos2 (May 27, 2013)

Since there is no real difference between a "new" timeshare purchased from a Developer, for which you will pay 50% or more in premium to cover the sales expenses, or a "used" resale they will use every trick to try to create a "value" in a direct sale that simply doesn't exist. The base ownership & rights to use are the same new or used - only the cost (you SAVE thousands !) are different. 

Yes there may be a few sales perks you cannot get via reslae but, as mentioned by the other post, the value of those (if you even use them) are dwarfed by the huge savings in upfront purchase cost. Remember - the annual fees are the same for both so the up front costs are lost money you'll never get back. 

So ask yourself is it better to pay $20,000 and get "gold status" (the gold is your money in their pockets) or pay $1000, get exactly the same use rights (it is all baloney or worse about "being back in the queue - all owners must be treated the same by law - read the disclosure to know what the rights are, they cannot take those away or give benefits to some owners and not others based on the meaningless way they may have obtained ownership). 

When you are trying to justify an unjustifiable cost difference they will say & do anything to fool you into buying retail. Don't fall for it - no timeshare is a good value at retail while many are great values at resale pricing. 

Good luck & NEVER buy retail timeshare.


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## roadtriper (May 27, 2013)

Good decision on not buying a timeshare during the presentation!  do your research and buy resale.  If there is a recission option on your Sample package, I'd get my $995 back as well. probably can do everything they offered for about 1/2 of that!  unless you're planning a weekend in the heart of ski season.  and the chances of them finding you a ski weekend might be limited.  they already told you they give their Members preference!  which of course is sales BS. but...


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## Rent_Share (May 27, 2013)

garcmanu said:


> First off, thanks for reading!
> 
> 1) the development company has the right to purchase the property prior to closing and then add back into their property (when I asked if the property was free and clear how that could be done legally, she did no as address the question)
> 
> ...


 
First of all not disclosing the name is highly inefficient in getting accurate answers,

#1 If there is a right of first refusal and you own a week and decide to sell, after finding a buyer at "resale market price", the developer choses to pay you "resale market price" to take it into their inventory to sell a developer inflated price. How are you negatively impacted you receive the same whether the developer exercises the ROFR or not. They are not interfering with your right to sell, only exercising their right to buy first, there is a contingency that says ROFR drives certain resale buyers away, since it's a moving target they might overpay to get past an invisible line. 

#2 Nor are you guaranteed any developer perks not specifically included in the CC&R's and subdivision documents, Short term developers incentives come and go with available developer inventory to sell.

#3 Behind the check's in the mail and a couple of other unmentionable quotes, one of the most common lies in the timeshare industry. The CSR's handling the reservations are completely disconnected from the sales scum, even Wyndham which receives an F BBB rating for their sales liars, gets props for their CSR crew.


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## AwayWeGo (May 27, 2013)

*There Is No Such Thing As A New Timeshare.  (Really & Truly.)*




garcmanu said:


> If you buy Used, you lose benefits! Really?


By the time the resale OR original owner shows up & checks in, other people will previously have been staying right there in that very same timeshare unit.  

Thus all timeshare units are _used-used-used_ any way you shake it -- & so it makes no sense whatever to pay new prices for an item that is plain & simple not new.  

Buy timeshares resale.  Save thousands of dollars on exactly the same thing, or the equivalent, or something even better than full freight. 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


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## litebrite (May 27, 2013)

Buying a used timeshare will save you money and save you from being scammed. By going to a sales pitch you may win a free cruise or vacation, but you will be saved from having a "gold membership" that will give you "free" items that are extremely limited.
Buy used. Always.


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## csxjohn (May 27, 2013)

Some here believe that sometimes it is worth the money to buy retail and get the benefits.  

Read this thread and pay attention to post #9.
http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=192551


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## smurfyblue (May 28, 2013)

1) As mentioned this is true for some timeshares but you lose nothing but some time and can try again. Funny thing is they wont take it back when the people offered it back to thme but they take it back to frustrate a buyer. smh

2) Its true you will miss out on some perks, like extra points (limited not permanent) and VIP or Platinum status for your first year or 2. I brought 2 TS before locating this site, I did enjoy the temporary VIP status and the extra points I got, but it was a whole lot of money spent for a tiny little taste at VIP. Not worth it but I am actually not too upset about it, I purchased what I could afford cash down and did not go into financing with them.

3) That's not true.


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## timeos2 (May 28, 2013)

#1 - ROFR - is a joke. It is not a guaranteed price floor and is used almost exclusively for frustrating resales which never helps - it always hurts - owners and benefits the Developers. Surprised? 

Usually it is best to avoid any resort / system that has ROFR as it further complicates any future sale / transfer. That is hard enough without any additional roadblocks required. 

If you absolutely must have a ROFR resort remember to never get caught up it the "you need to bid XXX or they will take it ROFR" nonsense. If they do take one you want bid the sale or lower for the next, they will tire of you and then you'll get your price.  Paying too much never makes sense as when it's your turn to sell you'll be less likely to ever get it back.


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## garcmanu (May 28, 2013)

Thanks to EVERYONE who replied!  Sounds like we made the right decision to walk. This site is awesome!


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## jc92869 (May 29, 2013)

*what I was told*

I am one of the few that does not mind doing the T/S presentations if the "bait" is good enough. 

during my last T/S presentation I  told the sales person that I already owned an RCI  contract  with 92,500 points for 1/2 the M/f of her 10k point contract. 

without missing a beat she congratulated me and said that by buying her 10k  contract I would cross over the 100k point line and I would become RCI Vip.

Of course the line is a total lie ( there is no such thing), but I was impressed at how good she was  at countering all my objections.  

Interesting thing is that if you looked in her eyes you could almost think that she actually believed what she was saying.  Reminded me of an article on pathological lying I had read  a while back.


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## Rob&Carol Q (May 30, 2013)

Amuse yourself...go do an ebay search for your resort and see what's out there.  Better yet, scope the search to reveal only actual "sold" units.  You will probably be shocked at the prices your TS is selling for right now.

Unless "THIS" TS is precisely where you want to go forever, consider buying into a large organization...  But coming here was just about the best decision you've made.  Research, research, research.  There is always time to buy in later. 

One thing to consider...buying in is easy, getting out is another matter entirely, and Maintenance Fees are forever.


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## AwayWeGo (May 30, 2013)

*I Resemble That Remark.*




jc92869 said:


> I am one of the few that does not mind doing the T/S presentations if the "bait" is good enough


I won't go for less than $125.

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


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## pacodemountainside (May 30, 2013)

garcmanu said:


> First off, thanks for reading!
> 
> My wife and I visited Breckenridge, CO this weekend and attended your usual timeshare presentation.  It may be important for me to mention that the company is a "developer" and we had been there about 6 months prior, declined the offer, but purchased a "sampling" for $995. The deal included a weekend stay at Breck in a 2 bedroom suite, free massages for 2, $75 in gift certificates for resort restaurants and access to one "getaway" for gold member prices.
> 
> ...



I am taking a guess that you are talking about GTR/Peak Seven.  Check out the following web site for  many listings in Summit and Vail County. His listings are higher than e-bay but is  a licensed  broker who charges seller 20%. Also,  are negotiable  depending  on  how motivated sellers are.  He does mention  Club benefits do not transfer.  I have NO affiliation.

http://jovanrealty.com/

I do not recall seeing posts where Developer perks for discounts on  other travel  expenses are worthwhile.  II and RCI both have  last minute specials.

Likewise,   sales weasels often  claim  restricted reservation  benefits but  for most part perfumed horse manure! Westgate  definitely does.

ROFR  is  very legal but  except for a couple  major Developers is used as  a sales lie to make you think  you will get your money back.


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## GTStone (May 30, 2013)

*Resale vs Developer*

You received a lot of advice.  Here are my suggested steps:

1)  Know the resort !  Do you homework, read reviews, visit if you can.  Be sure its where, and what, you want.  Don't accept substitutes.
2)  Buy the resort you will use !  Trading is secondary.
3)  Check the rules on reserving your unit.  Fixed weeks are much easier, and floating weeks may be on a first come, first served basis so you could have problems if you don't act on time.  I'd always do a fixed week when possible.
4)  Check the resale market.  Be sure there are units available at the resort you want, when you want it.  
5)  If the resort is completed, the developer may have a resale department.  The prices should be competitive with the ones available on the open market.
6)  For get the ebay myth !  Not all resorts will be on sale on ebay for $1.  Some, yes, but more desirable properties likely won't be there.
7)  Be cautious with some of the agents who have many listings on ebay for next to nothing.  You may have met some of them in the developer's sales office in the past !  Look for a quality timeshare reseller.
8)  I have bought from developers but not at the inflated prices noted here.  I was able to work with honest people, no false promises, and no sales pressure.  I had the option to take the material, study it, and then call back when I was ready to buy.  
9)  Forget all the give aways and perks they offer.  You are there to buy a partial ownership in a property, and those give aways are really not part of the deal.  It must stand on its own merits, and work for you, or you shouldn't even consider it at any price.
10)  Again ... buy the timeshare you will actually use !


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## csxjohn (May 30, 2013)

I don't agree with all these points and my main objection is that there is no one size fits all in Timeshare World.

My thoughts are in red.



GTStone said:


> You received a lot of advice.  Here are my suggested steps:
> 
> 1)  Know the resort !  Do you homework, read reviews, visit if you can.  Be sure its where, and what, you want.  Don't accept substitutes.
> 
> ...



I don't agree with all these points and my main objection is that there is no one size fits all in Timeshare World.

My thoughts are in red.


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## karibkeith (May 30, 2013)

*Developer Lines*

I note that TUG is starting a series on Resale vs Retail Differences.  I have a friend who owns with Shell and when I show him ads for cheap resales he tells me that Shell has informed him that he can not combine the acquired points with his existing points or something like that.  I will have to seek calarification from him.  However, the point is that developers, faced with a soft market for resales and bargain basement resales, are throwing up barriers or lying about barriers. I welcome TUG's continuance of the series for other developers, notably the groups (Shell, BlueGreen, Vacation Village, Diamond, etc.)

We all need to know about these situations and especially cases where resales have been purchased and successfully combined with existing points.
I have often wondered what happens by buying a week for a resort in a group and then trying to combine it with the group points.


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## TUGBrian (May 30, 2013)

i indeed hope to have one created for each of the major developers or point systems...will definitely require some assistance in doing them as I'd never consider myself an expert in them all...but those folks who handle resales for these resorts certainly know the ins and outs!


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## texanfan (May 30, 2013)

*GTR*

I do believe as well that you are talking about GTR/ Peak 7. It is a beautiful property and I have been keeping track of it's resale listings. They are few and far between. I stayed at GTL one summer on a promotion and had to do the tour  of GTR. I really loved the place but declined the purchase and researched it when I got home (how I found TUG.) I ended up purchasing a ski week at GTL on ebay. This is only my second year of ownership but the lottery system they use worked out great for me and I scored spring break 2014, I am assuming GTR is set up the same. I bring up these points because if you are interested in Breckenridge the Peak 7 sister property can be purchased on the resale market for a far greater discount. I have even been contacted by GTR to trade into that property with my GTL week but they still want a bit more than I am willing to pay (waiting on resale.) Another point that I would like to make because I have done quite a bit of research on it is that you should stay away from spring and fall unless it just absolutely interests you, and the ski week will easily trade to a summer week but not vice versa. If you just like the property and season does not matter it can be had on II Getaways for spring and fall for cheap (2 trips there myself already.) Hope this helps! Peak 6 opens this ski year and the summers are just awesome especially compared to Houston.


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## rickandcindy23 (May 31, 2013)

Resale benefits don't differ AT ALL from developer benefits.  There is NO benefit to merit the price difference.  This is especially true for the Breck resorts, including Grand Peak and Grand Timber.  

So ask the salesperson this question: "So if I want to sell this timeshare at a later date, it's not worth the paper the deed is printed on?"  Then say this: "So the resale value is in the tank because you make it terrible for me to resell this timeshare by stripping the ability for my future buyer to use the week?"  

Garbage is what comes from these sales fools' mouths.  It goes both ways.  Devalue the property as a resale, and you devalue it as a developer purchase because you cannot get rid of the thing, should you want to sell, and they do not have a resale program for buyers.  YOU are stuck with the expensive week.


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## K2Quick (May 31, 2013)

GTStone said:


> 2)  Buy the resort you will use !  Trading is secondary.
> 6)  For get the ebay myth !  Not all resorts will be on sale on ebay for $1.  Some, yes, but more desirable properties likely won't be there.



2) Buying only where you will use is, in my opinion, overstated on TUG.  I will say that buying where you will occasionally use or buying a place you could conceivably see yourself using in the future is a good idea.  I got rid of one I couldn't ever see myself using in favor of one that I use at least every other year.  But I still trade out of my system more than I use my system.  Also if you're buying primarily to trade, make sure you're not buying one that is difficult to sell or give away in case your strategies or plans change in the future (avoid the $1 ebay timeshares or those people are paying to get rid of in the TUG bargain bin).

6) There are quality weeks at quality resorts frequently on ebay.  If you're patient, there's a good chance the week you want will show up (it may take a year or more).  It is true that you won't get a quality week at a quality resort for $1 but you don't want a $1 week because those are very difficult to get rid of should you ever want to.  Also, don't just rely on the feedback ratings on ebay - do a search on TUG for the seller - the ebay feedback window isn't long enough to adequately capture feedback for problem transactions.


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## itxpaige (Aug 1, 2013)

I have bought several weeks on the secondary market, including a 1 bedroom which "retails" for 19,990 for $200, yes two hundred dollars!!  Reservations departments don't know how or where you bought your weeks, to them you are an owner.  There is no queue for taking reservations, it's first come, first served.  

The extra bonuses given by the developer, i.e.; bonus weeks, bonus points, activities usually expire within 2 years.  The savings are by far greater than the cost of the extra weeks/points.  

Buyer beware, the sales staff will say ANYTHING to get you to buy.  When you return the next year they will have probably moved on to another resort. NEVER accept a verbal agreement on anything.


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## Passepartout (Aug 1, 2013)

itxpaige said:


> I have bought several weeks on the secondary market, including a 1 bedroom which "retails" for 19,990 for $200, yes two hundred dollars!!  Reservations departments don't know how or where you bought your weeks, to them you are an owner.  There is no queue for taking reservations, it's first come, first served.
> 
> The extra bonuses given by the developer, i.e.; bonus weeks, bonus points, activities usually expire within 2 years.  The savings are by far greater than the cost of the extra weeks/points.
> 
> Buyer beware, the sales staff will say ANYTHING to get you to buy.  When you return the next year they will have probably moved on to another resort. NEVER accept a verbal agreement on anything.




You catch on quick, Newbie. We've had to coach many for a long time to get these details across. It isn't necessarily true across all systems, though. For instance Westgate, known herein as Wastegate, keeps track of resale vs developer buyers and discriminates against resale buyers. Like higher exchange fees and shorter advance bookings.

Welcome to TUG!

Jim


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## jejones3329 (Aug 3, 2013)

Silverleaf is one that some benefits are likely to not transfer, esp bonus time. If one buys a unit resale with EE then there is a good chance that will not transfer. Many people had to sign contracts acknowledging that the bonus would not transfer if it is sold. EE is also not availible from the developer any more either. There seems to be differing info on the 3 day bonus transferring. Silverleaf corp says a seller can call to ask what if any bonus will transfer if they sell if they do not have a copy of the contract. A potential buyer will not be given any  info if they call about a specific unit they are considering.


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## timeos2 (Aug 3, 2013)

Passepartout said:


> You catch on quick, Newbie. We've had to coach many for a long time to get these details across. It isn't necessarily true across all systems, though. For instance Westgate, known herein as Wastegate, keeps track of resale vs developer buyers and discriminates against resale buyers. Like higher exchange fees and shorter advance bookings.
> 
> Welcome to TUG!
> 
> Jim



But even there it is important to realize that while they maytrack who bought how it still isn't legal for them to discriminate between owners based on that. The law says all owners must be treated the same and anything offered to one owner or rule made or  fee assessed must be the same for all owners. They cannot say that because you bough resale you can't reserve until 60 days out while all other owners of the same type can reserve 6 months out. Not allowed. So even if they try to do it (and they would) you have to stand up to them and demand what you legally are entitled to (regardless of how you bought - the ownerships are the same retail or resale by law).  

Of course in the case of Wastegate the better plan is NEVER buy, never own and never even attend a sales pitch with this corrupt group. If there is no other choice some of the Wastegate resorts are OK to rent or accept as a free stay (with no sales presentation required). But in most areas almost any other resort will be a better choice as beyond the incessant sales pressure they also are usually middle of the road to lower end resorts. A couple are very nice but still a risk to stay at because of the sales pressure and bad management. The easy wasy - just avoid anything Wastegate and you'll be happier for it.


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## pacodemountainside (Aug 3, 2013)

John:

I think one has to make a distinction  between  deeded rights which cannot be  changed and Developer perks.

I  have read  PH  contract and underlying  "DECs", underwriting documents, whatever you want to call. They clearly state 60 day booking restriction.

This is totally different  than when Westgate tries to impose on  contracts  issued years with no such restriction.  

Just like  Wyndham  VIP bennies are   Developer perk which can be  changed or eliminated  at will.

However, no  booking restrictions can be imposed on deeded  rights acquired via  resale purchases.

Agree 100% with your sage advice to avoid Westgate sales unless one is fully  armed to do  battle  with best scammers this  side of Mexico.


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## timeos2 (Aug 3, 2013)

Yes, I do refer to deeded rights. If a new sale includes any restrictions on use based on a resale then it isn't a deeded right. And it is an immediate reason to end any talk of a purchase (as if being a retail timeshare purchase wasn't already reason enough). 

Fortunately very few resorts have anything like that in the docs. Another Wastegate "bonus". And another reason never to buy one new or used. 

Proudly Microsoft / Apple free with Droid Bionic & Tapatalk


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## rickandcindy23 (Aug 3, 2013)

Some nuances of a developer purchase are not transferable, but the developer is not really able to deny use, and they would love to do that.  

Looking at it from the side of the buyer who bought directly from the developer, how can the developer justify devaluing the product for your possible resale in future years?  It's asinine to buy from the developer, knowing your week or points are worthless as a resale product.  To me, buying for the supposed developer benefits (free onsite parking for skiing, as an example), and knowing those benefits don't transfer, that is reason enough to walk away from the sales table.


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