# I received my DVC 'Membership Extras' letter today...



## ljmiii (Apr 7, 2016)

...and it just felt sad...and churlish. The changes are for the most part, 'We won't allow new buyers into our cool new club house, or invite them into our way-cool parties, or let them buy our cool new pin. Or join us on our cool cruises that DCL thinks they would have trouble filling.'

The only substantive change is losing the annual pass discount of around ~$100/person/visit yr. And if anyone really cares about any of this they can buy 25 pts direct from Disney - about an extra $1500 given current prices.

Not that I want to give DVC any ideas. But hoping to increase direct sales by increasing the spread between resale and direct while keeping them functionally equivalent seems...odd. Not that it won't work, but relying on your customers being uninformed in the age of the Internet seems a recipe for disaster.


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## bnoble (Apr 7, 2016)

> relying on your customers being uninformed in the age of the Internet seems a recipe for disaster.


It works for other developers---most of whom have already gone down this road. Not sure why it wouldn't work for Disney.


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## rickandcindy23 (Apr 7, 2016)

You mean resale buyers, of course.  

Yes, Disney is going down the dark road of disallowing benefits to resale buyers, and I am disappointed that Walt Disney's company would stoop so low.  Walt was all about being hospitable and "the customer is always right."  I think this separation into classes of owners is ridiculous.  But I can buy some resale points even cheaper now, so that is one positive.  

The next step: you can only book at your home resort and no other resorts in the system.  You can bet your booty.  And that will make people really think twice before buying Saratoga Springs cheaply.


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## alexadeparis (Apr 7, 2016)

I never understood why developers thought that they should profit TWICE. Once the points have been sold to the original person they've made their money. What difference should it make to them what the retail owner does to sell their points once they no longer want them. Creating a different class of resale owners immediately devalues what the retail owner bought, lowering their sales price when they want out.


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## SkyBlueWaters (Apr 8, 2016)

I'm waiting for bargain basement. Looks like the day is coming.


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## Ty1on (Apr 8, 2016)

alexadeparis said:


> I never understood why developers thought that they should profit TWICE. Once the points have been sold to the original person they've made their money. What difference should it make to them what the retail owner does to sell their points once they no longer want them. Creating a different class of resale owners immediately devalues what the retail owner bought, lowering their sales price when they want out.



Those resales are competition against the next round of developer sales.


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## Southerngirl528 (Apr 8, 2016)

SkyBlueWaters said:


> I'm waiting for bargain basement. Looks like the day is coming.



As a longtime member, I will be very surprised if that happens, short of another big recession.  I really do not see these new changes for resales having more than a brief blip of impact to resales.


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## Ty1on (Apr 8, 2016)

Southerngirl528 said:


> As a longtime member, I will be very surprised if that happens, short of another big recession.  I really do not see these new changes for resales having more than a brief blip of impact to resales.



The prediction of steep drops in value is based on the benefit reductions for resales snowballing to bigger restrictions like it has in other systems.

How valuable is a SSR contract if it is only good for SSR?


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## littlestar (Apr 8, 2016)

SkyBlueWaters said:


> I'm waiting for bargain basement. Looks like the day is coming.



As long as Disney cash rates stay high, don't look for bargain basement. I priced out an Aulani ocean view studio for my daughter on Expedia for next month and they wanted $699 a night before tax. I decided to book it on points. 

I happen to love SSR and actually sold our BWV and VWL points to buy SSR. I bought where I like it the best. I chuckle when I hear others bypassing an SSR trade because I'm hoping that means more stays for me at my favorite!


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## frank808 (Apr 8, 2016)

I am also of the same mind and love ssr.  I have stayed at bcv a few times and do not really care for it over ssr.  The pool is fun but did not like it as much as ssr.  Hey i would not care staying at any dvc property but donot get the love that bcv gets and the dissing that ssr gets.  Different sttokes for different folks.  Now we like vgf also but donot really care for blt.
Sorry for the thread jack.


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## littlestar (Apr 8, 2016)

frank808 said:


> I am also of the same mind and love ssr.  I have stayed at bcv a few times and do not really care for it over ssr.  The pool is fun but did not like it as much as ssr.  Hey i would not care staying at any dvc property but donot get the love that bcv gets and the dissing that ssr gets.  Different sttokes for different folks.  Now we like vgf also but donot really care for blt.
> Sorry for the thread jack.



Wow. I see your location is Oahu frank808. I doubt I'd ever want to leave Hawaii if I lived there. 

I wonder if we will get the letter today?


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## frank808 (Apr 8, 2016)

If you lived here all your life you would have island fever like we do.  
I love disney world, disneyland, universal, Busch Gardens and just about any theme park. Love the great themeing that disney provides and harry potter at universal.  Also every october universal does a great halloween horror nights but its different than mickeys not so acary halloween party.  I personally love mnsshp cause you get to be a kid again!  My son enjoys universal horror nights more.
Don't get me wrong i love living 5 miutes from aulani but we cant stop being annual pass holders at all your great parks on the continental US.  That's probably why we endure the 15 hour flight to florida a few times annually. 
Owning dvc and other timeshares have enabled us to travel and stay at places we only dreamed of as children.
On another note i don't think these new restrictions will be but a blip in resale prices.  But if it ever gets back to the bloodbath of 2010 where we were able to buy okw contracts in the high $30's with 3 years of dues paid by seller, I will be in the market for more dvc points.  Hey i remember gcv points direct for $85 with incentives.


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## tschwa2 (Apr 8, 2016)

rickandcindy23 said:


> The next step: you can only book at your home resort and no other resorts in the system.  You can bet your booty.  And that will make people really think twice before buying Saratoga Springs cheaply.



Sales folk have been generating the rumor that resale points can only be used at home resort for resales in every system and with the exception of DRI which limits resale points members to home trust only, it hasn't happened for any of the systems (Wyndham, Bluegreen, Hilton, Starwood, Hyatt, etc).  What some systems have done is designate resorts that points revert back to the deeded week upon resale but Disney was never sold as deeded weeks.  I think unraveling  the existing points internal exchange system has provided too big of a challenge for developers.  Going forward when they build or start selling new resort points they can create that pattern for resales (home resort exchange privilege only) like Starwood is doing with Home Options. My guess is if it were easy to legally do to existing resorts within the system without taking back the deeds and re-deeding them into a trust ( like Marriott and Starwood), Wyndham and others would already being doing it.


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## rovitm (Apr 8, 2016)

Ty1on said:


> The prediction of steep drops in value is based on the benefit reductions for resales snowballing to bigger restrictions like it has in other systems.
> 
> 
> 
> How valuable is a SSR contract if it is only good for SSR?





I know it has been debated here as well as well as on other forums if Disney has the legal right to restrict usage to home resorts.  Even if they could do so would it be a wise decision?  If you think that would affect the value of SSR think what it would do to the value of Hilton, Vero Beach and Aulani.  Does DVC thinks people will pay full price on on those resorts or any of the others with an earlier end date?  I think If they do think so, and they could restrict usage to home resort they would have already done so.  Let's remember it is a for profit company and they will do what they need to do to maximize shareholder value.


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## alexadeparis (Apr 8, 2016)

Ty1on said:


> Those resales are competition against the next round of developer sales.



Then they should be willing to buy it back from the retail buyer at a set price in my opinion. Just because it changes hands doesn't mean the developers should have their hands out again.


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## bnoble (Apr 9, 2016)

It would appear that Disney Vacation Development disagrees with you.


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## Bailey#1 (Apr 10, 2016)

rovitm said:


> I think If they do think so, and they could restrict usage to home resort they would have already done so.  Let's remember it is a for profit company and they will do what they need to do to maximize shareholder value.



I don't think they would restrict usage to home resort, what I think they may do is have an up charge to switch outside of the home resort.


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## vacationhopeful (Apr 10, 2016)

Don't give the rat any ideas, Bailey#1.


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## elleny76 (Apr 14, 2016)

I love SSR..!  the 10 mntes walking to DSpring is amazing. Looking to buy more SSR points in the future.





Ty1on said:


> The prediction of steep drops in value is based on the benefit reductions for resales snowballing to bigger restrictions like it has in other systems.
> 
> How valuable is a SSR contract if it is only good for SSR?


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## elleny76 (Apr 15, 2016)

Just read this online:
"Disney survey asks guests how they would feel about $15/night resort fee to cover DME, MagicBands, FastPass+, EMH..."


Something new is coming soon...more fees?






Bailey#1 said:


> I don't think they would restrict usage to home resort, what I think they may do is have an up charge to switch outside of the home resort.


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## freediverdude (Apr 16, 2016)

I think this goes along with what my Disney guide was telling me about them wanting to aggressively increase direct pricing in the near future.  He was saying in the next 2-3 years they want the direct pricing to be $200/point.  Now granted he's a salesman, lol.  But he had already made the sale with me at that point, and we were just discussing other things and preparing the paperwork. He sort of mentioned it in an offhanded way that made me think that's what the guides are internally prepping for.


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## dominidude (Apr 20, 2016)

Hey guys, just my two cents, sorry I couldnt help.
Disney is a company that markets to kids. Kids grow up watching all this advertising, and then as adults they cant shake up "Disney fever".
Wake up. Think about what you are getting for your hard earned dollars, and think about who is getting all that cash.

These prices are (completely) nuts.


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## lawboy2001 (May 31, 2016)

freediverdude said:


> I think this goes along with what my Disney guide was telling me about them wanting to aggressively increase direct pricing in the near future.  He was saying in the next 2-3 years they want the direct pricing to be $200/point.  Now granted he's a salesman, lol.  But he had already made the sale with me at that point, and we were just discussing other things and preparing the paperwork. He sort of mentioned it in an offhanded way that made me think that's what the guides are internally prepping for.



He hadn't made the sale until your ten day rescission period had expired.


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## lawboy2001 (May 31, 2016)

dominidude said:


> Hey guys, just my two cents, sorry I couldnt help.
> Disney is a company that markets to kids. Kids grow up watching all this advertising, and then as adults they cant shake up "Disney fever".
> Wake up. Think about what you are getting for your hard earned dollars, and think about who is getting all that cash.
> 
> These prices are (completely) nuts.



I think the price bothers me most because the product they are selling is becoming substandard to what was offered in the past.  I mean...they reno a 42 year old building, right next to the MK boat launch (Poly) and charge 168$ a point for it!  Jeesh.


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## chalee94 (May 31, 2016)

Ty1on said:


> The prediction of steep drops in value is based on the benefit reductions for resales snowballing to bigger restrictions like it has in other systems.
> 
> How valuable is a SSR contract if it is only good for SSR?



I don't believe this is even possible, actually.  (short of completely removing SSR from the DVC system - more of a risk at VB if anywhere.)

just a good threat for direct salespeople to propagate.


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## JimMIA (May 31, 2016)

rickandcindy23 said:


> The next step: you can only book at your home resort and no other resorts in the system.  You can bet your booty.  And that will make people really think twice before buying Saratoga Springs cheaply.


From my understanding of the POS, they can't do that.  

ALL owners OWN the same thing -- a real estate interest represented by points -- no matter how they purchased, and you can't change that *ownership*.  As DVC is currently structured, the only way to remove using points at all DVC resorts would be to pull a resort out of the Club.  ALL owners at that resort would lose their ability to book at other DVC resorts, and all other resort owners would lose the ability to book at the removed resort.  That's a really ugly prospect for DVC -- it would kill their biggest selling point.

There are, however, a LOT of other things DVC could do to provide REAL benefits to buying direct -- and some of those might be as bad as your suggestion, and actually beneficial to DVC.


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## paluamalia (Jun 3, 2016)

*SSR over others*



frank808 said:


> I am also of the same mind and love ssr.  I have stayed at bcv a few times and do not really care for it over ssr.  The pool is fun but did not like it as much as ssr.  Hey i would not care staying at any dvc property but donot get the love that bcv gets and the dissing that ssr gets.  Different sttokes for different folks.  Now we like vgf also but donot really care for blt.
> Sorry for the thread jack.



We stayed at OKW last February. And loved it. We walked to SSR and had lunch in ARTISTS PALETTE, great food.  We are considering buying resale into DVC just to get a few nights..we are looking at OKW or SSR.  we've stayed at Boardwalk, but prefer OKW, the grounds are lovely, the units a bit tired, but they are working on it.  We really felt as though we were at an old fashioned resort in old Florida, the bus service was excellent, just wish they had a larger quick service location like the one at SSR.  Many people don't need or want all the perks of buying direct from Disney...just staying at the resorts may be enough, it is for us.  I don't see a wonderful benefit for a different robe in the spa, or a private lounge at Epcot.  We ar pass holders and get some great benefits anyway.


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## Southerngirl528 (Jun 4, 2016)

Pauluamalia, happy to hear you love my home resort, OKW. It is still our family's favorite after all these years. We love other DVC resorts for different reasons but OKW just feels like home.


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## icydog (Jun 17, 2016)

littlestar said:


> As long as Disney cash rates stay high, don't look for bargain basement. I priced out an Aulani ocean view studio for my daughter on Expedia for next month and they wanted $699 a night before tax. I decided to book it on points.
> 
> I happen to love SSR and actually sold our BWV and VWL points to buy SSR. I bought where I like it the best. I chuckle when I hear others bypassing an SSR trade because I'm hoping that means more stays for me at my favorite!


You surprise me Little Star.  You prefer Disney's Saratoga Springs Resort over say Disney's Old Key West Resort or Disney's Beach Club Villas Resort?  I'm just surprised!


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## stanleyu (Jun 18, 2016)

icydog said:


> You surprise me Little Star.  You prefer Disney's Saratoga Springs Resort over say Disney's Old Key West Resort or Disney's Beach Club Villas Resort?  I'm just surprised!



I am in complete agreement with Littlestar, who sold BWV and VWL to buy SSR. SSR is just a lot more pleasant than either of those. As for Beach Club - I like it but the main advantage is the proximity to Epcot and the Studios, not the resort itself (IMHO). Both my wife and I really enjoy our stays at SSR. The ability to walk to Disney Springs and take in the night life there is a HUGE plus. But we don't have little kids - just adult tastes!


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## littlestar (Jun 18, 2016)

icydog said:


> You surprise me Little Star.  You prefer Disney's Saratoga Springs Resort over say Disney's Old Key West Resort or Disney's Beach Club Villas Resort?  I'm just surprised!



As we have gotten older, we prefer the quiet at SSR or OKW. I like walking paths and plenty of green space so either one of those resorts are great for me. I still like Beach Club or VWL, but I prefer the more quiet spots that SSR and OKW offer.


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