# [5/2009][merged] Four Seasons hotels out at Aviara; trouble cited



## MarkO7111

Not sure how this will affect owners

Carlsbad resort switches its brand
Four Seasons out at Aviara; trouble cited
By Penni Crabtree Union-Tribune Staff Writer 
2:00 a.m. May 9, 2009
Alleging financial mismanagement, the owners of the Carlsbad luxury resort Four Seasons Aviara said yesterday that they have fired the Four Seasons management company and switched to a new branded hotel company. 
The group of San Francisco and St. Louis investors that has owned the property since 1998 allege in a lawsuit filed last month that Four Seasons failed to run the property in a “cost-effective and efficient manner.” 
The resort's owners have named Dolce Hotels and Resorts, a New Jersey company, to manage the Aviara. The property will be managed as an independent luxury resort beginning Monday, according to William Brewer, an attorney for the ownership group. 
Four Seasons, a Toronto company, could not be reached for comment. 
Brewer, who represents BRCP HEF Hotel Tenant, the limited liability investment group that owns the Aviara, said Four Seasons was notified March 29 that its contract was terminated but Four Seasons has refused to acknowledge the termination. 
Meanwhile, the matter is also the subject of a pending arbitration. 
Brewer said his clients moved to oust Four Seasons because the company failed to build occupancy and revenue rates, wasted money and awarded management “all manner of bonuses.” He said the company has also refused to turn over financial records on the resort to the owners. 
“Four Seasons demonstrated a complete lack of concern for the people who own the property and pay the bills,” Brewer said. “There were many millions of dollars each year being wasted, and when the owner sought to take control of the finances and direct them in a manner consistent with their best interest, Four Seasons flatly refused.” 
Jerry Morrison, a San Diego hotel consultant, said such disputes between hotel management companies and property owners are common, particularly when an owner wants to switch to a brand that they think can improve profitability. 
He said that while Four Seasons is a premium brand with stellar properties, that doesn't necessarily mean large profits. 
“Those types of luxury hotels make far less money than a three or four diamond hotel as a percentage of gross income,” Morrison said. “For some owners, its like starving to death with a lion. 
“The lion – the management company – has all the rights and they get their fees regardless of how the property is doing,” Morrison said. “Sometimes an owner won't have enough money left over to cover their debt service.” 
The Aviara, a Spanish-colonial style resort that is perched on a bluff overlooking the Batiquitos Lagoon and the ocean, is ranked as a four star and five diamond property


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## Cathyb

This surprises me - and I live close to it. So far nothing mentioned in our local papers that I saw.   Didn't Bill Gates become a partial owner about 1-2 years ago?


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## Steve

I just spoke with two people at the Residence Club at Four Seasons Aviara.  They assured me that everything is fine and there is nothing to worry about, but I'm still concerned.  As long as the Residence Club continues to be managed by Four Seasons I guess it's not a huge issue if the hotel becomes independent, but it's sure not a plus.  I hope that the owners and Four Seasons can work things out regarding the management of the hotel.  We'll all know soon as the change is supposedly happening on Monday.

Steve


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## alwysonvac

*Looks like this is going to get ugly....*

From http://www.marketwire.com/press-release/Four-Seasons-Hotels-And-Resorts-987090.html



> May 09, 2009 01:14 ET
> *Four Seasons to Remain as Manager of Four Seasons Resort Aviara*
> _
> TORONTO, ONTARIO--(Marketwire - May 9, 2009) - Four Seasons announced today that it has no intention to voluntarily relinquish its role as manager of Four Seasons Resort Aviara in Carlsbad CA. Four Seasons has managed the Resort since 1997.
> 
> Very recently, a dispute arose with regard to the 2009 operating budget for the Resort and the Owner's obligation to provide working capital necessary to fund debt service. That dispute is currently the subject of an arbitration proceeding, which Four Seasons fully respects and will abide by. Four Seasons has fulfilled all of its obligations under the relevant management agreements. Four Seasons intends to vigorously defend its rights in the arbitration process currently underway.
> 
> *Four Seasons will also seek substantial damages from the Owner (which is beneficially owned Broadreach Capital Partners and asset-managed by Maritz, Wolff & Co.) and its counsel for their conduct in damaging the operation and reputation of the Resort and of Four Seasons*.
> 
> Four Seasons Resort Aviara has been managed by Four Seasons Hotels and Resorts since 1997. In that time, the Resort has garnered numerous awards and accolades, consistently performing as best in class in the market. Recognition received while under Four Seasons management include being named to Forbes Traveler's list of World's Top 400 Hotels; being named as a AAA Five-Diamond Award for eight years running; listed as one of ZAGAT's Top 50 U.S. Resorts for 2008; and being listed on Conde Nast Traveler's, "Gold List" from 1999-2009._


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## alwysonvac

Interesting....Broadreach Capital Partners (which was listed as the owner in the article above) lists both Four Seasons Aviara and Dolce International under their Portfolio. 
See http://www.broadreachcp.com/ (Select "Portfolio" from the top of the page then select "Property Type" under "View by Category" then select "Lodging" to see listing)


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## Steve

It's also interesting that Dolce International is the hotel management company which recently took over the management of the Seaview Resort in Galloway, NJ after Marriott was thrown out.  That's the resort where Marriott's Fairway Villas timeshare is located.

I hope this gets resolved so that Four Seasons can continue to manage the hotel, but it doesn't sound good.  If the hotel's owners do succeed in ousting Four Seasons as the management company, then I have several concerns for the Residence Club:

1)  Will the spa, hotel, and golf club continue to offer the same access to Residence Club owners, guests, and exchangers?

2)  Will the already extremely high maintenance fees increase for Residence Club owners?  After all, there must savings from managing the whole property as one entity.  It could get very expensive to have to hire completely separate staff to clean, mow the lawns, take care of the pools, etc.

3)  Will Four Seasons want to continue to manage the Residence Club long term if they no longer manage the hotel?  Or will they get tired of it after a while?  They've already dramatically altered (basically abandoned) their original goal of building a network of a dozen resorts with weekly timeshare ownerships.

4)  Will resale values at Aviara plummet?  There is a lot of value to the Four Seasons name.  Even if Four Seasons continues to manage the Residence Club, the loss of the hotel will cause confusion in the marketplace and a lot of people will think that Four Seasons is out completely.

The people I spoke with at Aviara today were very nice, but I don't think there is any way to see this as a positive situation...no matter how it turns out.

Steve


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## LAX Mom

I realize this is somewhat off topic, but I've wondered about the situation at the Scottsdale Four Seasons Residence Club. When you look at the Four Seasons website it doesn't even list the property in Scottsdale:

http://residences.fourseasons.com/

How come they don't list the property with the other locations at this site? Is Four Seasons abandoning the Scottsdale location? 

I never have understood the reason that only the Scottsdale & Aviara locations exchange with II. If you own at these properties can you exchange into Jackson Hole or other Four Seasons locations?

I agree that this development with Four Seasons is a concern for the owners there. Would another hotel management company continue to let the Residence Club guests use the hotel facilities? What about the shuttle service between the Residence Club & hotel?


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## alwysonvac

LAX Mom said:


> I realize this is somewhat off topic, but I've wondered about the situation at the Scottsdale Four Seasons Residence Club. When you look at the Four Seasons website it doesn't even list the property in Scottsdale:
> 
> http://residences.fourseasons.com/
> 
> How come they don't list the property with the other locations at this site? Is Four Seasons abandoning the Scottsdale location?



It's still on the Residence Club page but it's shown as soldout - http://residences.fourseasons.com/residence_clubs/
I guess because it's sold out they removed the residence club resort page for Scottsdale   All of the other residence club links still work.



> I never have understood the reason that only the Scottsdale & Aviara locations exchange with II.


Only Aviara and Scottsdale offer a weekly timeshare product. As Steve stated above FS "dramatically altered (basically abandoned) their original goal of building a network of a dozen resorts with weekly timeshare ownerships." All of their other residence club properties are fractionals.



> If you own at these properties can you exchange into Jackson Hole or other Four Seasons locations?


There are many Aviara and Scottsdale units and very few fractional units at each destination. It's difficult to exchange into the other FS residence club locations. Four Seasons Residence Club has yet to come up with a viable internal exchange system between the timeshare owners and fractional owners.  

See this old thread for more detail about Four Seasons Residence Club - http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=45924


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## vacationlover2

OK,

I'm freaking out a bit.  I finally got exchanged into Four Seasons Aviara 2 days ago for an April 2010 stay.  I was so excited as I've stayed at Four Seasons hotels and think they are the absolute best.  Now this?!!!!!!

Someone please reassure me.

Thanks!


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## alwysonvac

Steve said:


> It's also interesting that Dolce International is the hotel management company which recently took over the management of the Seaview Resort in Galloway, NJ after Marriott was thrown out.  That's the resort where Marriott's Fairway Villas timeshare is located.
> 
> I hope this gets resolved so that Four Seasons can continue to manage the hotel, but it doesn't sound good.  If the hotel's owners do succeed in ousting Four Seasons as the management company, then I have several concerns for the Residence Club:
> 
> 1)  Will the spa, hotel, and golf club continue to offer the same access to Residence Club owners, guests, and exchangers?
> 
> 2)  Will the already extremely high maintenance fees increase for Residence Club owners?  After all, there must savings from managing the whole property as one entity.  It could get very expensive to have to hire completely separate staff to clean, mow the lawns, take care of the pools, etc.
> 
> 3)  Will Four Seasons want to continue to manage the Residence Club long term if they no longer manage the hotel?  Or will they get tired of it after a while?  They've already dramatically altered (basically abandoned) their original goal of building a network of a dozen resorts with weekly timeshare ownerships.
> 
> 4)  Will resale values at Aviara plummet?  There is a lot of value to the Four Seasons name.  Even if Four Seasons continues to manage the Residence Club, the loss of the hotel will cause confusion in the marketplace and a lot of people will think that Four Seasons is out completely.
> 
> The people I spoke with at Aviara today were very nice, but I don't think there is any way to see this as a positive situation...no matter how it turns out.
> 
> Steve



I'm thinking worst case scenario....
- Dolce will eventually be the new management of the hotel
- FS Aviara resale values will take a hit due to the loss of the FS name associated with the hotel.
- Our access to some of the hotel amenities will be eliminated (i.e. room service) or come at a fee
- Our maintenance fee will increase due to the elimination of shared cost.
- FS will continue to manage the Residence Club unless they're planning to abandon the entire Residence Club model. Otherwise future potential fractional owners might be scared off from buying into the FS Residence Club if they know FS management has abandon one of their properties in the past.


By the way.... I was looking at the some of the FSRC documentation this morning. I noticed in the Rules and Regulation documentation on page 15 it states the following under "XXVIII. RECREATION AMENITIES". 





> _*Use of the hotel amenities, such as hotel health club, pool, pool area and spa are restricted to hotel guests.*
> 
> Your access to the golf course and tennis facilities are not controlled by the Association or the Developer, and the terms and conditions of your use of these facilities, including any use fees, are set by the owners of these facilities.
> 
> Please remember that the hotel is a private facility which is not managed or owned by the Association or Developer, and *your access to it, including its recreational amenities, is as a member of the general public*_


Based on comments I read on TUG, it looks like the hotel wasn't enforcing the rules above. I would expect the rules may be enforced if the hotel changes mgmt companies.


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## LAX Mom

alwysonvac said:


> It's still on the Residence Club page but it's shown as soldout - http://residences.fourseasons.com/residence_clubs/
> I guess because it's sold out they removed the residence club resort page for Scottsdale   All of the other residence club links still work.
> 
> 
> Only Aviara and Scottsdale offer a weekly timeshare product. As Steve stated above FS "dramatically altered (basically abandoned) their original goal of building a network of a dozen resorts with weekly timeshare ownerships." All of their other residence club properties are fractionals.
> 
> 
> There are many Aviara and Scottsdale units and very few fractional units at each destination. It's difficult to exchange into the other FS residence club locations. Four Seasons Residence Club has yet to come up with a viable internal exchange system between the timeshare owners and fractional owners.
> 
> See this old thread for more detail about Four Seasons Residence Club - http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=45924



Thanks for that link and the info regarding the FS Aviara & Scottsdale. You've answered my questions. I didn't understand that they were the only FS units available for weekly timeshare ownerships. 

We stayed at the Scottsdale property last Dec. and they had a sales office at the hotel. I talked with a rep briefly, but didn't hear the entire sales pitch. Maybe they've sold out since Dec?


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## Fisch

Cathyb said:


> This surprises me - and I live close to it. So far nothing mentioned in our local papers that I saw.   Didn't Bill Gates become a partial owner about 1-2 years ago?



From Saturday's Union Trib:
http://www3.signonsandiego.com/stor...-switches-its-brand/?northcounty&zIndex=96420


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## GregGH

Boy - did I need a shock like this today?   Will take a couple of deep breaths and lets see what plays out.  It is hard to imagine the Hotel run one way and condo's run another?

There must be absolute shock in staff at the hotel.  A recent series of articles based upon I Sharpe's book ran in Toronto Globe & Mail - they treated their staff well so they would in turn treat clients well.

Sounds like this story may take some time to play out ....  I am sure there is quite a few spins on the truth here.   Recession make owners do funny things ??

Greg


here is a link with a slightly different spin ...
http://www.earthtimes.org/articles/...er-of-four-seasons-resort-aviara,817976.shtml


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## LLW

GregGH said:


> Boy - did I need a shock like this today?   Will take a couple of deep breaths and lets see what plays out.  *It is hard to imagine the Hotel run one way and condo's run another?*
> There must be absolute shock in staff at the hotel.  A recent series of articles based upon I Sharpe's book ran in Toronto Globe & Mail - they treated their staff well so they would in turn treat clients well.
> 
> Sounds like this story may take some time to play out ....  I am sure there is quite a few spins on the truth here.   Recession make owners do funny things ??
> 
> Greg
> 
> 
> here is a link with a slightly different spin ...
> http://www.earthtimes.org/articles/...er-of-four-seasons-resort-aviara,817976.shtml




Who makes the calls on the condos, besides the management agreement?


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## Steve

Here's an update:

http://www.nctimes.com/articles/2009/05/11/business/z91823dd959372287882575b300658619.txt

Four Seasons is still in control for now.  To answer the question about the condos (Residence Club), the homeowners association controls that part of the resort.  The ownership of the hotel has nothing to do with the timeshares. However, this will certainly have an impact....especially if Four Seasons is eventually booted from the hotel.

Steve


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## GregGH

from the North Coast article mentioned ....Two partners own BRCP (is incorporated in Delaware)  and is co-owned by Palo Alto-based Broadreach Capital Partners and Maritz, Wolff & Co. of St. Louis.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lewis_Wolff

"The company owns interest in eighteen hotel and resort properties around the world, including the Fairmont San Jose Hotel, the Fairmont San Francisco, the Carlyle Hotel, ............... the Four Seasons Hotel Nevis!!!!!, the Four Seasons Hotel Toronto !!!!!!, .............and the Park Hyatt Sydney.[2]"

This could be a script for movie or soap opera ...  breaking in at 1:00 am and picking locks and going thru files ....  Won't that strain relationships!

Greg


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## alwysonvac

Another article - http://www3.signonsandiego.com/stor...iara004036-battle-lines-drawn-over-luxury-re/

According to this article, Four Seasons signed a 30-year contract in 1995 to manage Aviara, according to the owners' lawsuit. That contract has three 20-year options, giving Four Seasons a potential 81-year management reign.


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## alwysonvac

*Four Seasons Press Release*

From http://press.fourseasons.com/news-r...ests-to-nobr-four-seasons-nobr-resort-aviara/


> *Corporate – May 11, 2009
> 
> Four Seasons Continues to Welcome Guests to Four Seasons Resort Aviara. Four Seasons Hotels and Resorts continues to manage Four Seasons Resort Aviara, and the Resort is operating as usual. The Company’s commitment to providing an exceptional guest experience remains unchanged.
> 
> Four Seasons is pleased with events today in the Federal Court in San Diego. The Company sought an order to prevent Broadreach Capital Partners/Maritz, Wolff & Co. from executing its previously announced plan to improperly assume management of the Resort. Broadreach Capital Partners/Maritz, Wolff & Co. today agreed not to take this course of action.
> 
> In 2006, Broadreach Capital Partners/Maritz, Wolff & Co assumed a long-term management agreement with Four Seasons for a remaining 81-year term. The agreement provides for arbitration of all disputes between the parties. Very recently, a dispute arose with regard to the 2009 operating budget for the Resort and Broadreach Capital Partners/Maritz, Wolff & Co.’s obligation to provide working capital necessary to fund debt service. Arbitration has commenced, and Four Seasons will respect and honor its contractual obligations and the arbitration process.


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## ral

*Four Seasons terminated as manager of Aviara Hotel Resort*

With Four Seasons being terminated as manager of the Aviara Hotel Resort in Carlsbad, CA http://www.hotelnewsresource.com/article38764.html, how will this affect the Residence Club (timeshare portion) within the same resort? Will there still be reciprocity with pools, spa, etc.? Has anyone contacted the HOA to determine if Four Seasons will continue to manage the Residence Club? I was really surprised at the removal of Four Seasons from management of the hotel as they usually have very long contracts in place.


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## steved2psi

The resort is still on the Four Seasons web site.  Sounds like owners are trying to recut the deal with FS through litigation.  Only the lawyers will make money.


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## alwysonvac

Edited by Bill4728 {link to other thread deleted since the threads have been merged.}


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## alwysonvac

*Four Season's latest press release on May 13*

"Four Seasons Responds to False and Defamatory Statements" - http://press.fourseasons.com/news-releases/four-seasons-responds-to-false-and-defamatory-statements/

FYI...Four Seasons Great Exuma Resort is closing effective May 26, 2009   - http://press.fourseasons.com/greate...ur-seasons-resort-great-exuma-at-emerald-bay/


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## caribbeansun

Wow, reads like a bit of a soap opera with the owners storming the resort 



alwysonvac said:


> "Four Seasons Responds to False and Defamatory Statements" - http://press.fourseasons.com/news-releases/four-seasons-responds-to-false-and-defamatory-statements/


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## GregGH

Got to love Google alerts -- here is a link from google

http://www.hotelsmag.com/blog/630000663/post/880044688.html

one interesting comment from a reader --that Dolce is (somehow) owned by Boardreach

this link below mentions Boardreach becoming majority partner in 2007 for owner group ... 

http://www.sdbj.com/industry_articl...0302.1783782.58794602.9665273.175&aID2=137205

While most of us normally resist change -it is hard to see how any new mgmt change will improve our 'experience' at the condo's.  If FS loses the Hotel - it has to be harder to maintain a cost effective relationship with Condo's.  Damm - not looking forward to the next month ( court date is May 27 I think )

Greg


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## encjan

Here is a link detailing Broadreach's purchase of Dolce

www.hospitalitynet.org/news/17005788/4032305.html


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## mj2vacation

*4Seasons Aviara hotel issues*

Apparently the actual hotel owner and the 4 Seasons are battling it out over control:

http://www.cnbc.com/id/30941331/

Even though the timeshare is not a part of the dispute, if the hotel becomes affiliated with another brand, could be interesting to see how it plays out.

***Merged from the "All Other Timeshare Systems" forum into this existing thread on the "Western USA" forum.***

Steve 
TUG Moderator


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## Sir Newf

*Four Seasons Aviara Update from Signon San Diego:*

Judge sends Aviara resort dispute to arbitration
By Lori Weisberg, Union-Tribune Staff Writer

6:27 p.m. May 27, 2009

A federal judge on Wednesday sent to arbitration an increasingly contentious dispute between the owners of the luxury Aviara resort in Carlsbad and Four Seasons Hotels and Resorts, the management company the owners are seeking to oust.

A three-person arbitration panel led by a retired federal judge is scheduled Thursday to hear the dispute, which centers on efforts by the resort's owners, Broadreach Capital Partners, to remove Four Seasons as the hotel manager.

Despite claims on Wednesday by Broadreach attorneys that the hotel owners were faced with a dire emergency, U.S. District Judge Jeffrey Miller thought otherwise, deciding that the case should more properly be heard by arbitrators.

“What rationale can there be for the court to rule one day in advance of the arbitration panel?” Miller said, addressing Broadreach's lawyers. “You have the arbitration panel set up and ready to go. I realize there's considerable tension between the two sides.

“But you have an agreement that the owners won't storm the premises and that the operator will operate (the resort) consistent with the reputation of this iconic institution.”

The very public quarrel over management of Aviara landed in court after Broadreach, owner of the resort since 1998, notified Four Seasons in late March that it was terminating its contract for failing to run the property in a “cost-effective manner.”

Broadreach wants to replace the Four Seasons management group with New Jersey-based Dolce Hotels and Resorts.

Four Seasons, however, would not go quietly, refusing to leave the resort and turn over hotel records and books to the owners. It went so far as to erect barricades at the entrance to the 329-room resort, according to the owners' attorneys.

Lawyers for Four Seasons were in court Wednesday seeking to prohibit Broadreach from removing it as manager before the arbitration hearing.

“We are very pleased that the judge affirmed today that this matter should be handled through arbitration,” Four Seasons General Manager Robert Cima said. “Four Seasons has always been attentive to what the management agreement states. At the same time, the owners' attorneys have continued to say a lot of negative and untrue things about Four Seasons. At the end of the day, however, we believe we will be recognized as doing the right thing for our employees, our guests and ownership partners.”

In a statement earlier this month, Four Seasons maintained that the dispute relates to the 2009 operating budget for Aviara and the owner's “obligation to provide working capital necessary to fund debt service.”

While Aviara is profitable at the operational level, Four Seasons said, the owners took on more debt than “the resort can now service” when they refinanced the property in 2006.

Lawyers for the Aviara owners counter that Four Seasons has performed poorly as operator of the resort, claiming that the hotel's occupancy rate has dropped to just 30 percent.

“We understood the judge's point, but we obviously face an emergency in that each and every day we have someone who's writing checks on our bank account and incurring obligations that we have to honor,” said William Brewer, an attorney for Broadreach. “They're taking actions that burden this hotel, and as a matter of law, when you're denied access to your real estate or the business you own, those harms are irreparable.”

While disputes between hotel owners and operators are not uncommon, especially in an economic downturn that has taken its toll on luxury lodging, such quarrels are rarely so public, some analysts say.

“Ideally, these disputes get dealt with in a quiet and respectful manner, but this case is hardly civil, and therefore the level of publicity is not a win-win but a lose-lose,” said Gary Vallen, a hospitality consultant and professor at Northern Arizona University's School of Hotel and Restaurant Management. “I don't see Four Seasons nor the owner of Aviara coming out in good standing from a public opinion standpoint.”

Four Seasons faces a conundrum in trying to sustain Aviara's brand as a luxury property while also having to find ways to bring in revenue without having to slash room rates, Vallen said.

“If you deeply discount rooms, how hard is it to get back to the normal rate when the economy turns,” he said. “And Four Seasons has done a good job over the years of maintaining a rate integrity – it probably has one of the highest average rates in the entire industry among all chains.

“Maybe Four Seasons was just too high-end a chain in the first place for this property".

Lori Weisberg

 SignOnSanDiego.


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## Carlsbadguy

Today there were a large number of people picketing the hotel.  Drove by quickly and do not really know what it was about.


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## encjan

Here is a story that discusses yesterday's court hearing.

http://www3.signonsandiego.com/stories/2009/may/28/1b28aviara215214-arbitration-aviara/


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## Cathyb

Just drove by FS yesterday.  About 20 protestors with BIG signs walking at the entrance to the resort.


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## Sir Newf

What were they protesting? What did the signs say?


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## JulieAB

Oh boy.   I check in Saturday!


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## Steve

JulieAB said:


> Oh boy.   I check in Saturday!



We expect eye witness reports from our TUGGER on the scene in Carlsbad.   

Steve


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## Cathyb

SirNewf:  Poor management of the hotel.


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## Cathyb

Julie:  Bring a jacket with a hood -- we have been having wet overcast to the point of needing the windshield wiper.  Clears up some in afternoon.


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## encjan

Arbitration in Aviara-Four Seasons dispute continued
By Lori Weisberg, Union-Tribune Staff Writer

1:16 p.m. May 29, 2009

An ongoing dispute between owners of the Aviara luxury resort in Carlsbad and its operator, Four Seasons Hotels and Resorts, was heard Friday by an arbitration panel, but the matter has been continued until next month.

Attorneys for both sides would say only that the arbitration hearing will resume June 18, noting that they have been asked by the three-member panel to not comment further.

At issue is a demand by the resort's owners, Broadreach Capital Partners, to remove Four Seasons as manager and replace it with New Jersey-based Dolce Hotels and Resorts.

In 2007, Broadreach acquired a majority stake in Dolce, which is a privately held operator of 23 upscale hotels, resorts and conference hotels in North America and Europe. It manages one hotel in California, the 214-room Dolce Hayes Mansion in San Jose.

Four Seasons has resisted relinquishing control of the 329-room Aviara resort, and both sides were in federal court this week to air their positions. U.S. District Judge Jeffrey Miller concluded that arbitration was the best vehicle for resolving the dispute.

The arbitration panel consists of two attorneys and a retired federal judge.

In legal filings, Broadreach has maintained that Four Seasons has failed to operate Aviara in a “cost-effective manner.” Four Seasons countered in a statement that Aviara “continues to outperform its competitors.”

Lori Weisberg: (619) 293-2251;


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## Sandy VDH

encjan said:


> Here is a story that discusses yesterday's court hearing.
> 
> http://www3.signonsandiego.com/stories/2009/may/28/1b28aviara215214-arbitration-aviara/



This is the exact same article that is in post#27.


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## encjan

sorry about that.


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## JulieAB

Drove up today and checked in.  Looked like business as usual!    We're still getting settled.  

Thanks for the heads up Cathy.  We've actually been in Escondido all week and we're loving this weather!  100 degrees back home!


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## loriw1a

*San Diego reporter interested in talking to Aviara timeshare owners*

[Duplicate posts are not permitted on TUG - I left your other post up, because it is more visable.  DeniseM Moderator]


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## alwysonvac

From the latest Residence Club Owners newsletter (June 2009)



> An Important Message to Aviara Residence Club Owners
> Many of you have likely seen recent press reports or heard about a dispute between the Aviara Resort owners and Four Seasons regarding Four Seasons management of the Resort. While The Residence Club is part of the overall Aviara development, *Four Seasons manages the Residence Club under a separate agreement, and that agreement is not directly a subject of this dispute, nor is the Residence Club formally a party to the dispute.*
> 
> The matter between the hotel owners and Four Seasons is now in arbitration, and the panel has set a schedule to hear further arguments in mid-June. In the meantime, *Four Seasons continues to manage and operate the Resort as usual, and all facilities and amenities are open and welcoming owners and guests as always.*
> 
> Because of confidentiality requirements imposed under the arbitration proceeding, we are not able to share with you any further information at this time, nor can we speculate about the possible result of the arbitration panel’s decision. We thank you for your patience and understanding in this regard. Whatever the outcome, please be reassured that as long as Four Seasons is managing the Residence Club, it will continue to operate with the same high standards you have come to expect from us.


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## GregGH

Here is a link to a well written piece on Four Seasons with nice background on how they make the decisions that they do.  It includes details on the issue at Aviara as well.

http://www.heraldtribune.com/articl...83004?Title=Pillow-Fights-at-the-Four-Seasons


Greg


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## grgs

*North County Times Article*

TUG mentioned and Steve quoted:

http://www.nctimes.com/articles/2009/07/12/business/za81ebe225bd0c50f882575e8007be796.txt

*Time-share owners on sidelines of Aviara dispute
Effects expected to be minimal, but Four Seasons and hotel owner mum*

By CHRIS BAGLEY - cbagley@nctimes.com | Sunday, July 12, 2009 12:08 AM PDT

CARLSBAD ---- Time-share owners at the luxurious Aviara resort are waiting on the sidelines of a legal struggle between the hotel's owner and Four Seasons Hotels and Resorts Ltd., which manages the entire resort.

The partnership that owns the hotel has been trying since March to sever a management contract that extends decades into the future, arguing that Four Seasons has failed to run it in a cost-effective manner. Four Seasons has said the resort remains profitable before servicing the partnership's debt tied to it.

The matter has been before an independent arbitration panel since late May.

The dispute isn't likely to affect the time shares, condominiums that owners have bought the right to use for one or more weeks per year. Four Seasons manages the time shares under a separate contract with the owners group. Known as the "Residence Club," the time-share area has its own pool and fitness club.

But owners also have access to many of the same facilities as the guests who pay $400 or more per night, a selling point that Four Seasons uses in its promotional materials, and it isn't totally clear whether owners would keep their access if Four Seasons were to be ousted.

Time-share owners have discussed the tussle on at least one online comment board since early May, when the matter broke into open court. Four Seasons alleged that the partnership, a joint venture of Broadreach Capital Partners and Maritz, Wolff & Co., sent representatives into the resort's offices in the middle of the night to swipe accounting ledgers.

"This will certainly have an impact," Aviara regular Steve Tuttle wrote in May at www.tugbbs.com, "especially if Four Seasons is eventually booted from the hotel."

Tuttle moderates a forum on the Web site, an information board for time-share owners and users.

Four Seasons sought to calm fears in a June newsletter to the time-share owners, saying that the Residence Club wasn't directly involved. But the newsletter pointedly declined to speculate on what might result from the arbitration.

A Four Seasons spokesman at the resort said the arbitrators had forbidden both sides from discussing the dispute, including potential effects on time-share owners if his company were to lose the management contract. The spokesman said Monday that arbitrators haven't indicated when they might reach a decision.

A representative of the hotel partnership couldn't be reached for comment last week.

Aviara time-share owner Mario Collura said he expects only minimal effects.

"The hotel is a plus, but when I'm there, I'm pretty much spending all my time at the Residence Club," Collura said.

Collura said Four Seasons has given no indication that it would back out of the management contract at the Residence Club. He said it's conceivable that Four Seasons might raise management fees for the time shares if it's no longer able to spread overhead expenses across the entire resort, but he added that he'd probably be willing to pay it because he has been happy with Four Seasons management. Fees run about $2,000 annually per week of ownership, according to owners and users on the comment boards.

Collura, who also runs the time-share brokerage TRI West in Los Angeles, said he hasn't noticed the four-month dispute having an effect on prices, though prices did head down late last year as the recession deepened. He declined to discuss specific figures, but several Web sites list one- and two-bedroom Aviara time shares for resale at $10,000 to $40,000.

Time shares have continued to change hands as usual, Collura said.

"We're still selling a good number," he said.

Call staff writer Chris Bagley at 760-740-5444. Read his blogs at bizblogs.nctimes.com.


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## scoccermom

Well, you can find them now for under $7,000. Gold, 2 bed, annual.


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## adobson

*Any news?*

Hi, 
Is there any news on the Final Ruling over the FS Aviara's owner vs FS situation?  I heard it was around mid-feb, so must have happened by now.


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## GregGH

scoccermom said:


> Well, you can find them now for under $7,000. Gold, 2 bed, annual.



Hello Soccermom-- welcome to m favourite MB ( note to others -I just posted my 2nd post since 2007 on the other MB  on a thread that was started bysoccermom  ... http://www.timeshareforums.com/forums/timeshare-economics/103145-four-seasons-aviara.html#post372870  )

I think under $7k is not the norm - you have a deal ( or let me have a chance at it )

The delays in the arbitration ... wow - I never knew it could or would take this long

I also posted a note ( http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=115059 )on La Costa running into trouble - these companies that re-finance in 2005-2006 then wonder what happened -- Broadreach -- you got what you deserve

I for one have fingers crossed that Hotel continues as a FS -- no one will do as nice a job as them
Greg

Greg


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## adobson

I totally agree with you!
I hope the final ruling happens soon and that it is good news for FS.  I can't believe it is taking so long!  Is there a date set?


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## theduck

*Four Seasons Aviara*

Check out this link to a press release about Four Seasons Aviara dated 2-23-2010.


http://www.prweb.com/releases/2010/02/prweb3638484.htm


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## GregGH

Hey Moderators ---- would it make sense to MERGE this to the existing thread ....


http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=97411&highlight=aviara

Interesting to see these URL's mentioned in the above ...

http://www.aviararesortproperties.com/

When you think about this post --  really it is telling us nothing new but it is hyping the above URL - someone want free press ??

Greg


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## theduck

It is because the sales office at Scottsdale is closed. It is closed because it is sold out of developer inventory.


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