# Maui taxes [IMPORTANT - Proposal to RAISE Property Tax - AGAIN!]



## alohakevin (Apr 4, 2012)

Here we go again. The Mayor of Maui has proposed a 7 percent increase in prop taxes for time share on Maui. This would take the rate from 15.00 to 16.50. This would be a combined total of 15 percent increase over the last two years. If you own a house in Maui the rate is 6.00. This is ridiculous. Once again the Mayor is choosing to alienate time share holders thinking they are an easy target. I would suggest we all make our concerns heard before the next council meeting on April 11th. Contact info can be found here www.ardaroc.org and click on Maui tax alert. I know that some will say it does no good to voice your opinion, I respectfully disagree. Last year there was a lot of good input and I believe it had an impact on the council. Granted tax went up but considerably less than what they were initially proposing. If we dont do anything we can be guaranteed of the outcome.


----------



## DeniseM (Apr 4, 2012)

I agree - it does help to contact the counsel.  Last time they mentioned that they were bombarded by emails from timeshare owners.

Here is a direct link to the council members:  http://www.co.maui.hi.us/index.aspx?nid=158

Here are some more email links - including the mayor's - http://www.co.maui.hi.us/Directory.aspx?did=90

I suggest keeping it short and to the point - this is what I wrote:

*Dear Council Member:

Timeshare owners are the most consistent visitors to Maui - we visit Maui and spend our dollars on Maui in both good times and bad.

Don't bit the hand that feeds you.

Vote no on the mayor's proposal to raise timeshare property tax.

DeniseM
Westin Ka'anapali Owner*​


----------



## Fredm (Apr 4, 2012)

Good grief, here we go again!

May as well just link to last year's thread. Nothing new to be discussed.

Bottom line: if the basis for the timeshare tax rate is not challenged in court, they will continue to raise it.  
If the argument is simply over how much, it only reaffirms their ability to apply a discriminatory tax on timeshare owners.


----------



## jarta (Apr 4, 2012)

It's not just timeshares where there is a proposed raise on a percentage basis from 2012 to 2013 for the Maui tax rates - according to the ARDA site:

Time Share:  up 7.7%

Hotel:  up 2.2%

Residential:  up 8.1%  (non-resident homeowner)

Apartment:  up 9.1%

Commercial:  up 12%

*and*

Agricultural:  dead even

Industrial:  down 1.4%

Homeowner:  down 12.0%  (need a Homeowner's exemption and be a resident)   Salty


----------



## jarta (Apr 4, 2012)

Fredm,   ...   Overall, the proposed FY13 budget for Maui County shows property tax revenue dropping 0.1% from 2012 ($208.8M to $208.7M).

All that is happening is that, for 2013, Maui is proposing to shift an even greater part of the incidence of the property tax to timeshare, apartment, hotel, commercial and non-resident owners from (mostly) resident homeowners.    Salty


----------



## alohakevin (Apr 4, 2012)

Fredm said:


> Good grief, here we go again!
> 
> May as well just link to last year's thread. Nothing new to be discussed.
> 
> ...



Maui County Commission Raises Timeshare Property Tax Rate

Wednesday, May 25, 2011

Position/Call to Action
Now that the County has officially decided to increase the property tax rate for timeshare, ARDA-ROC will continue to assess it options, including working with the County to change the current assessment methodologies and exploring a strategy that would include legal action against the County to force a reduction in the current tax rate

Maybe its time to call them on it. How long are they going to "assess options" Im not a lawyer so I dont know if this can be legally challenged but it seems if it can this is the time to do it.


----------



## Fredm (Apr 4, 2012)

jarta said:


> Fredm,   ...   Overall, the proposed FY13 budget for Maui County shows property tax revenue dropping 0.1% from 2012 ($208.8M to $208.7M).
> 
> All that is happening is that, for 2013, Maui is proposing to shift an even greater part of the incidence of the property tax to timeshare, apartment, hotel, commercial and non-resident owners from (mostly) resident homeowners.    Salty



Yes, I got that part.
County property tax revenues are not increasing because assessed valuations are not going up. So, they are selectively increasing tax rates on timeshares,  non-resident owners, and transients to stay even, while further reducing tax rates on resident owners (who already get a 500k resident exemption).

All of which goes to say that Maui County (*not the State*) is using the property tax code to favor/penalize the various land users, without the semblance of any nexus for the rates applied.  One of these days it will be legally challenged. 

That this arbitrary application of tax rates hits timeshares the hardest *by far *is a reflection of the discriminatory views held by some members of the Maui County Council.


----------



## Fredm (Apr 4, 2012)

alohakevin said:


> Maybe its time to call them on it. How long are they going to "assess options" Im not a lawyer so I dont know if this can be legally challenged but it seems if it can this is the time to do it.



Sure, it can be challenged in court. BUT, it will require deep pockets. 
I don't think the County would win. The State has already advised them to reconsider its property tax policy (which is at major variance with all other Hawaii counties) . Which is why ARDA  includes the threat of legal action in its boilerplate. 

ARDA will not go there, IMO.  Developers have future fish to fry with the County Council, and don't want to poison the water. Pragmatic long term self-interest. The County Council knows this as well.

ARDA will actively lobby the Council, and rally owner sentiment, because higher taxes make developer sales more difficult, and increase costs. To the extent these efforts produce small temporary victories, timeshare owners also benefit.


----------



## jarta (Apr 4, 2012)

Fredm said:


> Sure, it can be challenged in court. I don't think the County will win. The State has already advised them to reconsider its property tax policy (which is at major variance with all other Hawaii counties) . Which is why ARDA  includes the threat of legal action in its boilerplate.
> BUT, it will require deep pockets.
> 
> ARDA will not go there, IMO.  Developers have future fish to fry with the County Council, and don't want to poison the water. Pragmatic long term self-interest.



Fredm,   ...  A review of decisions by the SCOTUS on the subject of discriminatory taxation by States and the Equal Protection Clause:

http://supreme.lp.findlaw.com/constitution/amendment14/21.html

I litigate property taxes for a living.  It would be long, hard (but not entirely impossible) litigation to pursue the Maui tax rate classification system.

Federal courts are prohibited from interfering by granting an injunction in State taxation as long as the taxpayer has a "plain, speedy and efficient" remedy for raising federal constitutional issues in State court.

State court judges adjudicating the "plain, speedy and efficient" State remedy seem to feel that if they find a tax to be a violation of Equal Protection Clause a deduction will be made from their next paycheck.  So they usually say, after verbal soul-searching and hand-wringing (lol!), that suspect classifications are not too arbitrary and they pass muster.  And, then the SCOTUS usually refuses to take the appeal because it finds no substantial federal question is raised by the State court opinion.   Salty


----------



## siesta (Apr 4, 2012)

whoa ... when did jarta learn how to use the quote button?


----------



## jarta (Apr 4, 2012)

siesta,   ...   Always knew how to push the button.  Just preferred not to quote every part of every post I respond to.

Decided to try something else when I decided that if I didn't, I'd get further comments.  Seems like I can't avoid the comments.   

So, no quote for you - at all!  

And, I'll do it various ways from now on.  Should how much a wise guy the poster is determine how much gets quoted?    Salty


----------



## K2Quick (Apr 4, 2012)

alohakevin said:


> Here we go again. The Mayor of Maui has proposed a 7 percent increase in prop taxes for time share on Maui. This would take the rate from 15.00 to 16.50.



Isn't that a 10% increase or am I missing something?


----------



## saluki (Apr 4, 2012)

jarta said:


> siesta,   ...   Always knew how to push the button.  Just preferred not to quote every part of every post I respond to. Salty



Jarta aka Salty - just delete the non-pertinent part of the original post that you don't want displayed again. It's definitely easier to follow things with the quote feature.


----------



## LisaRex (Apr 4, 2012)

Christ on a cracker.  They increased the rental car taxes as well.  Do they think that Maui is the only tourist destination on Earth?


----------



## alohakevin (Apr 4, 2012)

K2Quick said:


> Isn't that a 10% increase or am I missing something?



K2that should have read 1.15 increase from 15.00 to 16.15. Good eye thanks for pointing that out. Thats what I get for not proof reading sorry about that. As Jarta pointed out its actually a 7.7 percent increase vs a 7 percent increase as I stated in previous post.


----------



## jarta (Apr 4, 2012)

saluki said:


> Jarta aka Salty - just delete the non-pertinent part of the original post that you don't want displayed again. It's definitely easier to follow things with the quote feature.



saluki,   ...   I hope you understand the only real difference between my quoting only part of the post I'm responding to by highlighting and using cut and paste and your pushing the TUG Quote Button and then erasing the non-pertinent part of my original post is ... 



the pretty blue box.   Salty


----------



## K2Quick (Apr 4, 2012)

alohakevin said:


> K2that should have read 1.15 increase from 15.00 to 16.15. Good eye thanks for pointing that out. Thats what I get for not proof reading sorry about that. As Jarta pointed out its actually a 7.7 percent increase vs a 7 percent increase as I stated in previous post.



No problem Kevin.  If I didn't have jarta ignored, I would have already seen the correction.


----------



## saluki (Apr 4, 2012)

jarta said:


> saluki,   ...   I hope you understand the only real difference between my quoting only part of the post I'm responding to by highlighting and using cut and paste and your pushing the TUG Quote Button and then erasing the non-pertinent part of my original post is ...
> 
> 
> 
> the pretty blue box.   Salty




That plus the part where it is a much quicker read as a quote...

But, hey, it's your finger. Push whatever button you like.


----------



## RLG (Apr 4, 2012)

jarta said:


> Decided to try something else when I decided that if I didn't, I'd get further comments.



Thank you.

I think using the conventional method of quoting is a big improvement since it's much easier to see who/what you're quoting.


----------



## DeniseM (Apr 4, 2012)

Email from Starwood:



> Dear Ocean Resort Villas Owner,
> 
> This is to inform you of the recent fiscal year budget proposal by Maui County Mayor, Alan Arakawa, to increase the property tax rate paid by timeshare owners. If passed, the new tax rate will take effect July 1, 2012. The Mayor's office insists the tax increase will be "revenue neutral"; however, the proposal represents a 7.7% increase to the timeshare tax rate - bringing the overall rate from the current $15.00 per thousand to a proposed $16.15. This continues the practice of taxing timeshare owners at a significantly higher tax rate than any other type of landowner.
> 
> ...


----------



## DeniseM (Apr 4, 2012)

If anyone cares, here is another way to post a quote:

1) Copy and paste the desired text

2)  Type the following at the beginning and end - remove blank spaces - I had to put them in so the Vboard code would show:

*[ quote] text goes here [ /quote]*

If you hunt and peck, this probably won't be of help to you.  If you are a touch typist, it's pretty fast.


----------



## Ken555 (Apr 4, 2012)

LisaRex said:


> Christ on a cracker.  They increased the rental car taxes as well.  Do they think that Maui is the only tourist destination on Earth?



Where did you find this info? How high is it now?

Last year I rented via priceline and paid almost exactly in taxes (about $0.40 difference) as I did in the rental fees itself.


----------



## Kauai Kid (Apr 5, 2012)

Surely the value of Maui timeshares has decreased.  I got a 2 br 2 bath every year Maui Schooner for $1 on ebay

I'm guessing the county doesn't see it that way. 

Sterling


----------



## aeroflygirl (Apr 5, 2012)

DeniseM said:


> ...  Last time they mentioned that they were bombarded by emails from timeshare owners.
> 
> Here is a direct link to the council members:  http://www.co.maui.hi.us/index.aspx?nid=158
> 
> ...



Gee, since timeshare owners are obviously a boundless source of cash, maybe we could share that wealth and bequeath all our timeshares EVERYWHERE to them.:hysterical:


----------



## LisaRex (Apr 5, 2012)

Ken555 said:


> Where did you find this info? How high is it now?



It's 40-50% of the total cost, from my calculations.  

Hawaii

"Effective July 1, 2011 the Hawaii State rental motor vehicle surcharge tax will increase from $3/day to $7.50/day. This rate will be in effect from July 1, 2011 until June 30, 2012, at which time the rental motor vehicle surcharge tax will revert back to $3/day barring any further legislations.

Unfortunately this will come as an unwelcomed surprise for most customers as the car rental companies have not yet included this significant tax increase in their cost estimates and rental confirmation notifications as the bill was only signed by Governor Neil Abercrombie on June 9, 2011.

Ref: DEPARTMENT OF TAXATION ANNOUNCEMENT NO. 2011-08 http://www.state.hi.us/tax/announce/ann11-08.pdf"

http://discounthawaiicarrental.com/news/134.htm


----------



## DeniseM (Apr 5, 2012)

LisaRex said:


> This rate will be in effect from July 1, 2011 until June 30, 2012, at which time the rental motor vehicle surcharge tax will revert back to $3/day barring any further legislations.



Yeah, right!


----------



## luv_maui (Apr 5, 2012)

DeniseM said:


> Yeah, right!



Our fall 2012 reservation does have the $3/day surcharge and a $4.50/day facility charge.  Not to forget the 11.11% concession fee, sales tax, and vehicle registration fee.  Ouch


----------



## LisaRex (Apr 5, 2012)

luv_maui said:


> Our fall 2012 reservation does have the $3/day surcharge and a $4.50/day facility charge.  Not to forget the 11.11% concession fee, sales tax, and vehicle registration fee.  Ouch



I would bring this point up to Maui council in my complaint letter. They need to realize how much these taxes add up to.   Our real estate taxes are already significantly higher than homeowners.  They need to quit pecking us to death. 

I had tentatively planned go to Kauai/Maui in March of next year.  This constant attacks on timeshare owners, and complete unfairness of their tax structure, leaves a very bad taste in my mouth.  As an owner, I have no choice but to pay the property tax bill to Maui County.  But I don't have to use my week.  Instead, I can exchange it and drop my vacation dollars somewhere else.


----------



## hypnotiq (Apr 5, 2012)

Ouch. I havent looked at rental cars for my trip in Sept yet.


----------



## DeniseM (Apr 5, 2012)

hypnotiq said:


> Ouch. I havent looked at rental cars for my trip in Sept yet.



It doesn't matter if it is booked or not - even if it was already booked, they would add the new tax.


----------



## hypnotiq (Apr 5, 2012)

Oh I know that much, I was just  at the taxes being close to 50% of the cost. 

Oh well, I think Ill treat my Maui trip like my Europe trip in 2007. I'm just going to swipe my card, not think about it, and enjoy the trip.


----------



## MON2REY (Apr 5, 2012)

For anyone interested in renting a car on Maui im May, I just booked an intermediate SUV for 7 days for $172 (including taxes) from Costco (Alamo).  Base rate $97 and taxes $75.


----------



## aeroflygirl (Apr 5, 2012)

*Taxes*

We just stopped renting a car while we're there. Maui Executive Transportation picks us up at the airport and drops us at the resort for $50 plus tip each way for 2 people. We take the resort shuttle everywhere else.


----------



## alohakevin (Apr 5, 2012)

Two days ago (February 7) the news of a settlement with Maui County was circulated among the Starwood sales staff. In that package was an FAQ that owners can have. I couldn't get an electronic copy but did receive a printout.

I don't know how to format the tables so they are spaced properly. Perhaps someone can help me with that. I also put the text into a Word document.

Net: KOR has $ 2,382,057 tax savings, KORN has $1,510,096 tax savings, over the 2009/2010 and 2010/2011 tax years.

Here's what the FAQ says:

MAUI COUNTY REAL PROPERTY TAXT SETTLEMENT OVERVIEW
Information
February 7, 2011
The Ka'anapali Ocean Resort Villas (KOR) Vacation Owners Association and Ka'anapali Ocean Resort Villas North (KORN) Vacation Owner's Assiciation ("Associations") filed a tax appeal in April 2009 when both associations received notice of a substantial increase in property valuation by Maui County. The increased valuation led to a corresponding increase of $4,124,162 in real property taxes from $2,261,819 in tax year 2008/2009 to $6,385,981 for tax year 2009/2010 for KORN and an increase of $5,199,076 in real property taxes from $1,218,266 in tax year 2009/2009 to $6,417,342 for tax year 2009/2010.
The Associations paid the full amount of the taxes under protest. The disputed portion of the taxes was placed in a litigation escrow account and frozen from use by the County of Maui pending the outcome of the appeal.
During the course of the litigation, the Associations discovered the true market value of their respective properties for assessment purposes. The Associations hired a well respected real property appraisal firm. The firm's staff completed exhaustive research and analysis of the market data for vacation ownership units. This data and conclusions were presented in detail to Maui County staff. As a result, The County of Maui has agreed to wholly accept our expert witness'calculated property values for the 2009/2010 and 2010/2011 assessments and is making the appropriate adjustments. The following table reflects the net reduction in assessments and corresponding tax saving versus the original tax liability imposed for the years provided herein.

Ocean Resort Villas (KOR)

INITIAL AGREED NET
ASSESSED ASSESSED REDUCTION % TAX
YEAR VALUE VALUE IN VALUE RED. SAVINGS 

2009/2010 $ 456,139,860 $ 355,139,065 $ 101,000,795 22.1% $ 1,414,011
2010/2011 368,902,800 299,756,660 69,146,140 18.7% 968,046

Total $ 825,042,660 $ 654,895,725 $ 170,146,935 20.6% $ 2,382,057

Ocean Resort Villas North (KORN)

INITIAL AGREED NET
ASSESSED ASSESSED REDUCTION % TAX
YEAR VALUE VALUE IN VALUE RED. SAVINGS 

2009/2010 $ 456,291,590 $ 379,259,315 $ 77,032,275 16.9% $ 1,078,452
2010/2011 376,861,200 346,029,493 30,831,707 8.2% 431,644

Total $ 833,152,790 $ 725,288,808 $ 107,863,982 12.9% $ 1,510,096
In addition to a refund of taxes, as reflected in the Tax Savings column above, the Associations will receive interest on these amounts as well. The refund will be placed into the general operating fund of the Associations. The Board of Directors for each Association has discussed how to apply the funds in compliance with the Association's governing documents. Each Association board has decided that the fun ds will be applied toward the operation and reserve expenses in the 2012 budget for the respective Association when the budget is considered for approval this fall.

Sorry about long quote do we know how the refund and interest were dispersed.


----------



## Ken555 (Apr 5, 2012)

LisaRex said:


> It's 40-50% of the total cost, from my calculations.
> 
> Hawaii
> 
> ...



Thanks for the info. Unwelcome, but understood. Too bad Maui isn't governed in a balanced manner.


----------



## Ken555 (Apr 5, 2012)

luv_maui said:


> Our fall 2012 reservation does have the $3/day surcharge and a $4.50/day facility charge.  Not to forget the 11.11% concession fee, sales tax, and vehicle registration fee.  Ouch



Last year I rented off airport and avoided some of these charges. Almost as convenient, less crowded, and otherwise perfectly fine... Why spend more? Of course, sometimes the total cost via Costco and other sources for at airport locations are still "reasonable".


----------



## Ken555 (Apr 5, 2012)

hypnotiq said:


> Oh I know that much, I was just  at the taxes being close to 50% of the cost.
> 
> Oh well, I think Ill treat my Maui trip like my Europe trip in 2007. I'm just going to swipe my card, not think about it, and enjoy the trip.



Now you've got the Maui [government] spirit!

Fwiw, this is exactly what Maui expects will happen. I'm not sure what the tipping point will be when tourists and non-resident homeowners say enough, but they're on the road toward discovering it. We don't get a vote on Maui, so our opinion isn't considered well. It does seem, by their actions, that timeshare owners in particular aren't welcome (but do spend your money while visiting...).


----------



## alohakevin (Apr 5, 2012)

Dear Fellow Owner, 

This is important information about the taxes and annual assessments for your vacation ownership interest at The Westin Ka'anapali Ocean Resort Villas. Please read this entire message carefully. The first item relates to the recent Maui County (County) tax appeal settlement and the second item asks for your help in defeating proposed state tax increases on timeshare owners.

Item #1: County of Maui - Property Tax Refund

As you may know, our Association has been in a two-year-long dispute with the County of Maui over property taxes. We're happy to share that we have settled the dispute to our satisfaction. The Association appealed the County's tax assessment for the 2009/2010 and 2010/2011 tax years because of the significant increase in assessed values and taxes owed to the County. Specifically, we, as Owners at The Westin Ka'anapali Ocean Resort Villas, faced a 182% increase with total taxes rising from $2.3 million to $6.4 million. This increase was due to a change in Maui County’s appraisal methodology and inaccurate market data.

Our Reaction to the Tax Increase
On behalf of the Association, we retained legal counsel and property appraisal experts, filed a formal appeal and paid the County in full but under protest.

The Appeal 
The County's Board of Review heard our appeal and offered only minimal reductions. We then appealed to the Tax Appeal Court for the State of Hawaii and began the pretrial process. A few months later, Maui County began negotiations and settlement discussions with our legal counsel and property appraisal experts. Based on the extensive market research completed by our counsel and experts, updated assessed values were offered by the Association. Because the Association's suggested assessed values were fair and well-documented, Maui County accepted them. While we had hoped for assessed values and the resulting taxes to return to the pre-2009 levels, that expectation was not realistic based on the Association's own research and data.

Outcome
The following table reflects the settlement reached with the County, showing the net reduction in our property's assessed value and the corresponding tax savings for the last two tax years. Additionally, the Association will receive interest on these refunds.



The Refund
Maui County will issue a refund check, with interest, directly to our Association. These amounts will be placed into the Association's operating account and we will determine how best to apply these funds during our 2012 budget review process.

Future
Our settlement is for the last two tax years and does not guarantee any future assessed value the County may determine. We do believe we've established with the County the true market value of our property. We believe the County now has a better understanding and will likely base its future valuations upon the research and data presented by the Association.


----------



## gregb (Apr 5, 2012)

alohakevin,

That is old news from last year.  It is not clear what the HOA did with the refunds.  The MF for 2012 were kept fairly level.  The sales people said they used the money to build the playground and add some other amenities on the south side.

This issue now is that they want to shift the tax burden to put more costs on the TimeShare and Resort businesses, and reduce the already low taxes on residents.  They attempt to make it sound OK by calling it "Revenue Neutral", that is, they are not taking in more $$$ for the county, but they are making sure that some of us pay more, so the residents can pay less.

Greg


----------



## alohakevin (Apr 5, 2012)

gregb said:


> alohakevin,
> 
> That is old news from last year.  It is not clear what the HOA did with the refunds.  The MF for 2012 were kept fairly level.  The sales people said they used the money to build the playground and add some other amenities on the south side.
> 
> ...



Thanks Greg I realize this is last year. I didnt know if- since the taxes were paid by us and then wood was refunded and earned interest if this might reflect on our current tax obligation or if this was swept under the rug. If we paid the taxes and there was a refund and interest earned shouldnt we get a prorated deduction against current liability. What am i missing or is this way off base. Just curious

I understand the neutral point. The burden is shifted to timeshare and to me represents a discriminatory tax policy, if it goes through it wont be neutral to us.  Also if wood once again pays taxes under protest (which we pay) and after arbitration gets another refund and interest who stands to gain. This whole system seems very convoluted.


----------



## gregb (Apr 5, 2012)

The refund for 2010 and 2011 was paid to the HOA.  They used the refund to reduce the MF and to make improvements to the resort.

Greg


----------



## LisaRex (Apr 6, 2012)

Ken555 said:


> Last year I rented off airport and avoided some of these charges. Almost as convenient, less crowded, and otherwise perfectly fine... Why spend more? Of course, sometimes the total cost via Costco and other sources for at airport locations are still "reasonable".



You can save the 11% airport tax by doing that. 

http://discounthawaiicarrental.com/news/138.htm


----------



## Ken555 (Apr 6, 2012)

LisaRex said:


> You can save the 11% airport tax by doing that.
> 
> http://discounthawaiicarrental.com/news/138.htm



I'm not certain without checking the receipt, but I don't think there was a facility charge for off airport, either.


----------



## clsmit (Apr 8, 2012)

Is Oprah a non-resident owner? She's on our side, probably!


----------



## Syed (Apr 12, 2012)

On April 11, 2012 I spoke before the County Council at the Civic Center in Lahaina regarding the proposed property tax increase for timeshare owners on Maui.

I was not alone in my efforts to persuade the Council not to increase the property tax. There were about 30 people in the room who were against the proposed tax increase on Maui timeshares. This included many employees from Westin Ka anapali Ocean Resort Villas, Gregg Lundberg( former General Manager for Westin Ka anapali Ocean Resort Villas and Westin Ka anapali Ocean Resort Villas North), Angela Nolan( current General Manager for Westin Ka anapali and Westin Ka anapali North).  There were also a couple of owners from the Westin properties.  There were a few business owners who provide services to the Westin timeshare one was an owner of a company that has the landscaping contract with Westin Ka anapali and an owner of a tourist activities company which employs over 250 people.  There were three employees from Ka anapali Beach Club (Diamond Resorts), and one from Marriott Maui Ocean Club, one from Kahana Falls and of course myself representing my clients, who don’t have a voice, and also as a concerned local businessman. The Westin group was very impressive. Their presentation was good; they spoke with passion on how the impact of higher taxes could affect their employment. The Westin managers spoke of the amount of dollars Westin timeshare owners pay in taxes, how many people Westin employs.  There were several employees who spoke of how they continued to be employed by timeshare companies even during the economic downturn on Maui and they have family members who lost their jobs and houses, while they were still employed in the timeshare industry.  Westin/Starwood also spoke of their involvement in the betterment of this community by donating to The Boys and Girls Club, Big Brothers and Maui Food Bank to name a few.

Nearly half the people who spoke at this hearing were timeshare tax related.  I was glad to see such a big turnout opposed to the timeshare tax increase.  The last County Council meeting I went to Gregg Lundberg and I were the only people in the timeshare industry who spoke to the Council regarding the repercussions of another property tax hike. 

I testified as a real estate broker and a business man concerned about the impact the tax increase will have on Maui. I said one of two things will happen if taxes were raised. The default on timeshares will increase and consequently there will be more foreclosures, which could cause layoffs of employees. Those who would pay the higher fees would spend less in restaurants, shops and activities which would affect the livelihood of the local businesses. I also said the notion of timeshare owner’s not spending money while they are here is not true. Timeshare owners spend money as soon as they arrive in Maui. They rent a car, they buy food, and they don't sit in their rooms. Timeshare owners are the most loyal customers we have on our island and are a vital component to our economy. I urged them to consider the impact of higher taxes will have on our community.  

Following is my video from the County Council meeting.  http://advantagevacation.com/timesh...ing-proposed-timeshare-property-tax-increase/

I was asked if I would consider paying more in personal property taxes as opposed to an increase in timeshare property taxes.  I said I know what I pay in taxes doesn't cover the basic services I get as a resident and, yes, I would pay more in taxes, since I can afford it, and for the betterment of our community.

It is imperative if you own a timeshare on Maui you write your County Council and voice your opinion.

Alan M. Arakawa, Mayor Mayors.Office@co.maui.hi.us

Danny A. Mateo, Council Chair danny.mateo@mauicounty.us

Joseph Pontanilla, Council-Vice Chair joseph.pontanilla@mauicounty.us

Gladys C. Baisa, Council Member gladys.baisa@mauicounty.us

Robert Carroll, Council Member robert.carroll@mauicounty.us

Elle Cochran, Council Member elle.cochran@mauicounty.us

Donald G. Couch, Jr., Council Member don.couch@mauicounty.us

G. Riki Hokama, Council Member riki.hokama@mauicounty.us

Michael P. Victorino, Council Member michael.victorino@mauicounty.us

Mike White, Council Member mike.white@mauicounty.us


----------



## LisaRex (Apr 13, 2012)

Thank you for going to bat for us, Syed.  I am very glad to hear that so many people attended the meeting, including the employees who would be negatively affected by another tax increase. 

I appreciate your time and efforts.  And I will write an email to the council members and reiterate what I told them last year.  I love Maui, but I will not stand to be treated like an unwanted intruder when there are so many other great places to choose from.


----------



## dss (Apr 13, 2012)

To echo what Lisa said, Thank you Syed for both your efforts in front of the council and your very helpful reporting back about the meeting. I will also be sending out a letter today.

Thanks.


----------



## alohakevin (Apr 13, 2012)

Thanks Syed


----------



## TUGBrian (Apr 13, 2012)

Strong work there Syed, I applaud your efforts at combating this seemingly every year!


----------



## DavidnRobin (Apr 13, 2012)

TUGBrian said:


> Strong work there Syed, I applaud your efforts at combating this seemingly every year!



I vote to give Life-Time TUG membership to Syed...
(we brought our 1st TS - WKORV OFD - from Syed - highly recommend - truly a stand-up guy)


----------



## Syed (Apr 14, 2012)

Many thanks for your kind words. I appreciate it. I think the timeshare community in Maui needs to meet with County Council members more than once a year, during budget time, to communicate and eliminate any misunderstandings they have about timeshare owners.  I will try to meet with the Council members and I will keep you informed.


----------



## Fredm (Apr 16, 2012)

*if the left one won't get than the right one will*

This phrase from the song "16 Tons" describes what is happening with Maui property taxes.

Starwood, and others, were successful in lowering the tax bill by establishing that assessed values were overstated. Nonetheless, the tax rate was increased last year to 15%.
Everyone was ecstatic because it was not raised to 17%. ARDA ROC and the resorts were snapping their suspenders.

So, now Maui County is taking all that money back in the form of a yet higher tax rate. "...if the left one won't get than the right one will..." 

Seriously!  A 2 bedroom condo with an annual tax bill over $30,000?  That it serves to further lower the subsidized property tax of resident owners only adds insult to injury.

I have said it before. Unless the basis for the tax rate is legally challenged, timeshare owners will continue to be Maui's piggy bank. 

The rest is Kabuki Theater.

eta: Thank you, Syed, for your efforts.


----------



## DavidnRobin (Apr 16, 2012)

_"Don't bite the hand that feeds you. You may need that hand one day."_

This is the lesson that needs to be conveyed to the short-sighted Maui County Council.  They may think that we are forced to stay in Maui, or Maui is just too much of a paradise destination that they can do anything they please.
They are wrong.


----------



## TUGBrian (Apr 18, 2012)

info from ARDA-ROC

There is a county council meeting  on Friday April 20th 2012 at 9am at the Maui county council building and all residents or timeshare owners in town are urged to attend.

representatives from ARDAROC will be there to speak, as will representatives from many majory timeshare developers in Hawaii.

I hope some of you can attend to support Syed as well!


----------



## rickandcindy23 (Apr 18, 2012)

We own three annual Maui weeks and only use the kitchen for breakfast.  We eat out every meal, go on excursions, go to luaus and shows.  And my mother-in-law once again bought over $1,000 in jewelry and clothes for herself and family.  She does that every year.

The mayor said something to the effect that timeshare owners are not the visitors he wants on Maui. 

It's insulting, but maybe he looks at Maui timeshares on eBay and figures we are all cheap and bought our timeshares for $1.00 with zero closing costs.  I bought one fairly cheaply, but the others I paid good money to get.   

I dislike hotel rooms and need to know what view I am going to have each year at my own resort.


----------



## gblotter (Apr 18, 2012)

It seems to me that non-resident homeowners would have a very strong case regarding equal protection under the law.  By definition, non-resident homeowners will use less (not more) public services than resident homeowners.

If the Maui County Council can legally do this, why not raise our property taxes by 500% and cut the resident homeowner property tax to zero (or even pay all resident homeowners an annual rebate/credit on top of zero property tax).

This is the worst kind of political pandering imaginable (well, when I think of public employee union payola - maybe not the worst).


----------



## rickandcindy23 (Apr 18, 2012)

If I remember correctly, timeshare units are charged 14X what a whole-owned condo owner pays.  I know that Hono Koa taxes are around $260 per year per week, and that is a lot less than other resorts pay, but it's based on value.  

I feel Maui's government is sending a loud message to those who own timeshare.


----------



## gblotter (Apr 18, 2012)

DavidnRobin said:


> I vote to give Life-Time TUG membership to Syed...
> (we brought our 1st TS - WKORV OFD - from Syed - highly recommend - truly a stand-up guy)


I bought a Marriott Maui Ocean Club resale week last year.

I had the choice of purchasing on eBay or through literally dozens of timeshare brokers.

I specifically sought out Syed because I was aware of his earlier efforts to combat this abusive timeshare taxation (and I told him so when I purchased).

That's my small way of saying thanks.


----------



## TUGBrian (Apr 18, 2012)

Ill take care of him upon his next renewal date


----------



## Syed (Apr 18, 2012)

TUGBrian said:


> info from ARDA-ROC
> 
> There is a county council meeting  on Friday April 20th 2012 at 9am at the Maui county council building and all residents or timeshare owners in town are urged to attend.
> 
> ...




I will be there this Friday. Will keep you informed.


----------



## clsmit (Apr 18, 2012)

Thanks again, Syed. I've sent my email to the mayor. Hope it helps.


----------



## alohakevin (Apr 19, 2012)

Aloha Kevin,

On the behalf of Councilmember Victorino, we would like to thank  you
for your email as your input is welcomed. Councilmember Victorino  will
surely take your thoughts into consideration.  Please feel  free to
contact our office any time.

Mahalo,


Deanna Davis-Hookano
Executive Assistant to 
Councilmember Michael Victorino
808-270-7760 - Office


For what its worth here is a response from one of the council members


----------



## clsmit (Apr 19, 2012)

Crickets from the mayor. Hope his staff read it, though.


----------



## gblotter (Apr 20, 2012)

alohakevin said:


> For what its worth here is a response from one of the council members


I got the same response.  Just a form letter from his secretary.


----------



## Syed (Apr 20, 2012)

I attended the Maui County Council meeting held this morning in Wailuku. In attendance were Jason Gamel who is the ARDA Vice President, State Government Affairs and Ken McKelvey representing ARDA-ROC, along with a Diamond Resorts representative, the General Manager from Sands of Kahana, two representatives from Marriott Maui Ocean Club, Angela Nolan, General Manager of Westin Kaanapali Ocean Resort Villas and another Westin Kaanapali Ocean Resort Villas employee,  a lawyer representing the timeshare industry and a representative from Worldmark/Wyndham.

While the representatives from the various timeshare resorts and the timeshare attorney focused on the impact of higher taxes for timeshare owners, I addressed the Council as a Maui resident and local businessman who is involved in timeshare resales.  I voiced my concerns in regarding how higher timeshare taxes will affect the local economy, employment and other areas of tourism – restaurants, tours, car rentals, etc.  My concern is if the taxes continue to rise, there will be more foreclosures which could cause associations to lay off employees and timeshare vacationers will spend less money in the local economy.

The representatives from the timeshare resorts noted that they employ a large number of people and pay a lot of property taxes, much higher taxes than any other real estate property taxes on the island.  These resorts provide steady employment and contribute many tourist dollars to the economy.  Timeshare owners pay taxes and spend money not just during high season, but year round and the majority of the timeshare resorts on Maui maintain an average of 90%+ occupancy year round.

The timeshare attorney stated that after Hurricane Iniki hit Kauai in 1990, the timeshare owners associations on Kauai were the first to rebuild.  They were the driving force in the Kauai economy because timeshare owners continued to vacation.  He addressed the unfairness of the tax system when it comes to timeshare taxation and noted that if timeshare taxes continue to go up in Maui, potential timeshare buyers will look elsewhere to vacation and spend their vacation dollars.  He stated that in general, if you tax people unfairly they will lose faith in the government.

I again state that the proposed increase of timeshare taxes comes without any rational explanation or justification from the Maui County Council.


----------



## Ken555 (Apr 20, 2012)

Nice job, Syed. Keep up the good fight.


----------



## LisaRex (Apr 21, 2012)

Thanks for representing us people with no vote, Syed.


----------



## enma (Apr 21, 2012)

Thanks, Syed! Your work is greatly appreciated!


----------



## gregb (Apr 21, 2012)

Thanks Syed.  

We love staying at our unit in WKORN and were close to purchasing another week last year (from Syed on the resale market, of course).  But then the Council tried to unfairly (in my opinion) onto the backs of the Time Share owners, so we did not make a purchase.  

We were thinking about it again this year, when the council proposed this new shifting of taxes onto Time Share owners.  While we are not able to avoid any increased taxes on the unit we already own, are unwilling to take on more of the burden by purchasing additional weeks.

What I find amazing is the complete lack of respect, and even animosity, that the Council shows towards Time Share owners.  Fortunately for all, this disrespect is not shown by the local merchants nor the staff at the resort.  We have always found them welcoming and very friendly.  

So I wonder why the Council has such an anti-Time Share bias?

Greg


----------



## DeniseM (Apr 21, 2012)

It's not really anti-timeshare - it's actually anti-tourist.  Tourists are a necessary evil in Hawaii.  

It just might have something to do with the fact that the US  conquered Hawaii, removed their lawful queen from the throne, and forced Hawaii to become part of the US - out of financial greed.  Yes - they still care about that.  Much like some Southerners and the Civil War.


----------



## gregb (Apr 21, 2012)

DeniseM said:


> It's not really anti-timeshare - it's actually anti-tourist.  Tourists are a necessary evil in Hawaii.
> 
> It just might have something to do with the fact that the US  conquered Hawaii, removed their lawful queen from the throne, and forced Hawaii to become part of the US - out of financial greed.  Yes - they still care about that.  Much like some Southerners and the Civil War.



Denise, I beg to differ.  The inordinate tax burden that the Council is trying to shift onto Time Share owners is more than just dislike of tourists.  Time Shares tax rates are way higher than hotels or condos, which both bring in tourists.  I understand that tourism is a two edged sword.  Yes, they get the tourist dollars.  But they also have to put up with the crowds of tourists.  

But the extreme difference in tax rates for Time Shares compared to other tourist related businesses, shows that the Council seems to have a special enmity for Time Share owners.  Either that, or a completely cavalier attitude about how tax burdens should be shared by all.

Greg


----------



## DeniseM (Apr 21, 2012)

In a previous council meeting, it was openly expressed that Hotel Guests are the preferred type of Hawaii guest, and that Hotel Guests spend more money on vacation.  There seems to be an impression that timeshare owners are low-budget vacationers who sit at the resort, cooking in their kitchens, and do not spend money on activities or dining out, so little of their money goes into the local economy.

As far as condos, they are more likely to be owned by locals, and would get favorable treatment, as well.


----------



## gregb (Apr 22, 2012)

DeniseM said:


> In a previous council meeting, it was openly expressed that Hotel Guests are the preferred type of Hawaii guest, and that Hotel Guests spend more money on vacation.  There seems to be an impression that timeshare owners are low-budget vacationers who sit at the resort, cooking in their kitchens, and do not spend money on activities or dining out, so little of their money goes into the local economy.
> 
> As far as condos, they are more likely to be owned by locals, and would get favorable treatment, as well.



Denise,  I think your statement lends support to my contention that there is a significant anti-Time Share bias on the Council.

As for Condos, it depends on the condo.  Owner occupied condos are certainly owned by locals, by definition.  However, condo developments like the Whaler that have sold partial ownership interests, are most likely owned by non-residents.  Since many of those partial year condo shares are for multiple week periods, I would guess that those folks are more likely than traditional Time Share owners to behave as the Council believes.  That is not spending as much as on the local economy as hotel visitors.  Let's face it, guests that stay at Time Shares like WKOR are more likely to spend like hotel visitors than partial year Condo owners.  But the condo owners get the tax break.

Greg


----------



## Syed (Apr 23, 2012)

I have spoken with a few general real estate brokers on Maui and they all believe over 50% of the condos and apartments in West Maui and South Maui are owned by non residents.

The proposed tax rate is addressed on page 13 in the link below

http://www.mauicounty.gov/documents...udget/FY2013 Proposed Budget/Operating Budget

I was impressed by the passionate speeches given by the timeshare employees, developers, vendors etc at the Lahaina Civic Center a couple of weeks ago and by ARDA, ARDA ROC, developers, employees last Friday in Wailuku. It is also election year for the Maui County Members. We will find out about the tax rate increases next month.


----------



## gregb (Apr 24, 2012)

Syed said:


> I have spoken with a few general real estate brokers on Maui and they all believe over 50% of the condos and apartments in West Maui and South Maui are owned by non residents.
> 
> The proposed tax rate is addressed on page 13 in the link below
> 
> ...



Thanks Syed,   Unfortunately, your link doesn't work for me.

Greg


----------



## saluki (Apr 24, 2012)

gregb said:


> Thanks Syed,   Unfortunately, your link doesn't work for me.
> 
> Greg




Try this


----------



## PamMo (Apr 24, 2012)

Wow. Page 61 is telling. And seeing it right there in black and white is plain ugly. When the economy took a nose dive, who made up the solid base of visitors to Maui? Who kept pumping dollars into local businesses? I guess we're the cash cow that keeps on giving.

Oh, gosh. Do I sound bitter?


----------



## klpca (Apr 24, 2012)

At the rate the timeshare owners are being asked to pay real property taxes, they should not be subject to the TAT as well.

I noticed that they have also decided to stick it to their commercial property owners this year. Seriously?


----------



## gregb (Apr 24, 2012)

I can see now why Maui County is having trouble.  Their proposed budget is over 600 pages!!!!  In a quick scan, it seems that most of the pages are full of fluff and justification for the service costs.

The proposal does shift more of the property tax burden onto the Time Share industry.  The proposed rate increase for Time Shares is the largest increase, double the other rate increases.

Greg


----------



## Syed (May 9, 2012)

I just spoke with the Maui County Council Budget and Finance Committee office and was told the County Council members are proposing to raise the timeshare property tax rate from 15.0 to 15.50/$1000, instead of the 16.15/$1000 the Mayor was seeking. The Mayor still has to sign it into law, which will take place next month. I will keep you posted.


----------



## gregb (May 9, 2012)

Syed said:


> I just spoke with the Maui County Council Budget and Finance Committee office and was told the County Council members are proposing to raise the timeshare property tax rate from 15.0 to 15.50/$1000, instead of the 16.15/$1000 the Mayor was seeking. The Mayor still has to sign it into law, which will take place next month. I will keep you posted.



Thanks for the Info Syed.  Making a lot of noise does seem to get some attention.  But I fear they will get it all eventually.  The tactic seems to be to make an outlandish proposal, then, when everyone complains, reduce it.  But somehow it always results in an increase.

Greg


----------



## Syed (May 9, 2012)

Greg, I agree. Sad but true! We have to do this every year.

See the first link in my article below, which shows the Budget and Finance Committee recommendation at it May 7 meeting, for all Maui property owners.

http://advantagevacation.com/maui-budget-and-finance-committee-passes-tax-increase/


----------



## rickandcindy23 (May 10, 2012)

Thanks for letting us know, Syed.  I cannot believe we have no voice in matters as they relate to Maui taxes on timeshares.  We currently own 3 1/2 weeks on Maui, and I need to dump a few of those.


----------



## Slithern (May 16, 2012)

*It's sad it's gotten to this*

I know it's all been said before but it's very disappointing that things have gotten to this point.  I am an owner of an EOY OF at KORVN.  I've loved Maui forever and have made a point to get there at least once a year and many years two or three times.  My family spends when we get there, (car rentals, excursions, restaurants, diving etc.) You name it, we do it.  I'm lucky to have been able to experience all Maui has to offer through the years.  I often think and feel that i'm one of Maui's own even though deep down i do realize i'm not.  That's why this is so sad.  We've pretty much decided not to go to Maui much anymore if at all.  We may use our EOY but no more in betweeners and more then likely we will be using our EOY for trades where our vacation dollars are truly wanted.  I know i could just go there and not spend money while I'm there but that is not how i want to vacation and I am a very stubborn man.  The email i received made it seem like i was being done a favor that the tax rate had only been raised 1/2 as much as they wanted.  I'm not buying it and unfortunately, I won't be buying much else on Maui until things change.

Bill


----------



## LisaRex (May 17, 2012)

Bill, I know how you feel.  We canceled our plans for January, which is a bummer because I really wanted to see the whales.  But I work too hard for my money to visit a place where I'm treated like I'm a second class citizen, with an endless source of cash.  Forcing one class of people who cannot vote to subsidize those who can is the coward's way of governing.


----------



## slum808 (May 17, 2012)

Please don't hold the people of Hawaii accountable for the idot's we elect. I live in Honolulu, so I'm  not directly tied to Maui, but I do know that I vote (normally for the loser) and I can't believe some of the dumb cr*p that comes out of our elected officials mouths. There are tons of local business owners who need your support. I believe some of them like Sid even testified to the board that they need the time share owners. I know prices are rising, and if you can't afford to come that's definately understandable, but please don't stay away out of spite. You really end up only hurting yourself, where else can you experience what Hawaii has to offer.


----------



## LisaH (May 17, 2012)

slum808, just curious: how is the tax situation on Oahu (and Kauai)? Is this unique to just the county of Maui? Thank god I sold my SOK week two years ago...


----------



## slum808 (May 17, 2012)

I actually don't own in Hawaii, its to expensive  . I'll have to do some research on that one. I've heard that the state previously warned the Maui council that they're going down a slippery slope.

Okay found some info. According to the link below from the title guarantee website (reputable company) only Maui county has a timeshare classification. You can see the different rates per $1000 of assessed value. http://www.topproducerwebsite.com/users/19047/downloads/Property Tax Rates 10-11.pdf

I think to understand what the maui council is trying to do, you have to look many years back. Prior to the internet boom, maui residences were priced very moderatly. With the influx of investment dollars in second/vacation homes property values skyrocketed. I believe the Maui concile is trying to protect the local homeowner from what is percieved as outside forces manipulating the market. They didn't want residents property taxes to double just because someone is willing to buy the house next door for twice the money. Unfortunatly like all local governments, they got used to the excess and now that times are tough they're looking for money. Unfortunatly for timeshare owners they're an easy target. TS owners are perceived to have lots of money. So from a politicians eyes, who are they going to raise taxes on, the local residents who are already struggling in the ressesion, or the rich people who don't vote. Look at the feds, isn't this exactly what they want to do. I'll stop there before it gets to political. 

My suggestoin, sell Maui buy Oahu. We'd love to have you come every year.


----------



## clsmit (May 18, 2012)

*Email from SVO 16 May 2012*

I'm surprised no one has posted this yet (for those who aren't owners):
May 2012  

Dear Ocean Resort Villas Owner,

We recently informed you of the proposal by Maui County Mayor, Alan Arakawa, to increase the property tax rate paid by timeshare owners. The Mayor's proposed tax increase represented a 7.7% increase to the timeshare tax rate - bringing the overall rate from the current $15.00 per thousand of assessed value to a proposed $16.15.

On April 11, 2012, over 70 citizens and representatives affiliated with the timeshare industry attended the West Maui Hearing. Almost all of these attendees were there on behalf of the Ka'anapali Ocean Resort Villas, including your board members. Attendees also included employees, vendors and other supporters. Written and oral testimony was submitted opposing any tax increase in the timeshare rate.

On May 1, the Maui County Council Budget and Finance Committee voted to increase the timeshare property tax rate, but at a lower amount of 50 cents. This proposal will raise the timeshare rate from $15.00 per thousand of assessed value to $15.50, representing a 3.3% increase in the tax rate. A final vote on the tax rate will be held May 23, 2012, and the 50 cent increase is expected to be approved. The current year's reduction of 6% in assessed values, taxed at a rate of $15.50, will result in an overall decrease of approximately 3%; therefore, no adverse impact to owners.

Property taxes account for approximately 16% of the annual maintenance fee. Obviously your board continues to be concerned with the very high timeshare tax rate. This matter and appropriate next steps will be discussed at an upcoming meeting of your Vacation Owners Board. 

To receive additional updates about this matter, you may visit the ARDA-ROC website at: http://www.ardaroc.org/roc/legislative-issues/issues.aspx?id=3568

Thank you for your support.

 This email was sent by SVO Management, Inc. You've received this email as a convenience in the general course of communication regarding your ownership.

To ensure you receive your SVO Management, Inc. emails, please add  svomanagement@svomanagementinc.com to your address book.

Please do not reply. You may email your board at kaanapali@myassociationdirect.com. 

SVO Management, Inc.
9002 San Marco Court, 
Orlando, FL 32819
CID 1898


----------



## Tia (May 19, 2012)

Refreshing to read as own a Wyndham resort  in USVI and the board there is saying it's the individual ts owners responsibility on ts weeks units as the USVI has been trying to raise our taxes also........ 




clsmit said:


> I'm surprised no one has posted this yet (for those who aren't owners):
> May 2012
> 
> Dear Ocean Resort Villas Owner,
> ...


----------



## rickandcindy23 (May 19, 2012)

> Okay found some info. According to the link below from the title guarantee website (reputable company) only Maui county has a timeshare classification. You can see the different rates per $1000 of assessed value. http://www.topproducerwebsite.com/us...es 10-11.pdf



Great chart.  Really shows the disparity between property tax rates.  I noticed Oahu had homeowner and non-homeowner.  How does one bill property taxes to a non-homeowner?


----------



## Twinkstarr (May 19, 2012)

rickandcindy23 said:


> Great chart.  Really shows the disparity between property tax rates.  I noticed Oahu had homeowner and non-homeowner.  How does one bill property taxes to a non-homeowner?



I know Michigan has different property tax rates for primary residence and vacation/rental properties. From doing some research, in Charlevoix county the difference in property tax on a $225,000 condo to use for a vacations/rental was $3500 per year above what someone who uses it as a primary residence. 

Now I am not sure how MI determines "primary" residency, but on the flip side I know Ohio is aggressive with property owners who claim another state as primary residency. My one aunt's brother would have to document how many days in spent at his house in OH. Finally sold the place as every year he would get audited by the state trying to collect Ohio income taxes.


----------



## slum808 (May 19, 2012)

rickandcindy23 said:


> Great chart.  Really shows the disparity between property tax rates.  I noticed Oahu had homeowner and non-homeowner.  How does one bill property taxes to a non-homeowner?



It's worded weird, but what they mean is owner occupied vs non-owner occupied e.g. rental property.


----------



## PamMo (Jul 17, 2012)

Here's an updated chart for real property taxes on the different Hawaiian islands (from www.tradewindstribune.com )


----------



## LisaRex (Jul 17, 2012)

Not a big surprise, but the chart shows that we timeshare owners are subsidizing the residents quite a bit.  That's what happens when you have taxation without representation, and a Council who has no courage.


----------



## Tia (Jul 17, 2012)

Looks like Maui is the only one with a Timeshare category?


----------



## LisaRex (Jul 17, 2012)

Tia said:


> Looks like Maui is the only one with a Timeshare category?



I believe they are the only tax authority in the _country_ that has a separate timeshare category.


----------



## Ken555 (Jul 17, 2012)

LisaRex said:


> I believe they are the only tax authority in the _country_ that has a separate timeshare category.



Wow, that's just absurd. While I'm happy trading into Hawaii, I have absolutely no intention of owning a timeshare there.


----------



## DavidnRobin (Jul 17, 2012)

LisaRex said:


> I believe they are the only tax authority in the _country_ that has a separate timeshare category.



I can't believe it is even legal...


----------



## jarta (Jul 17, 2012)

DavidnRobin said:


> I can't believe it is even legal...



David,   ...   The legal standard is that the classification has *no* possible rational basis underlying it.  The presumption is that the taxing officials acted correctly.  The burden of proving no rational basis is on the taxpayer.

Taxpayers rarely win these classification arguments in court because the doctrine of necessity (we need the money) usually takes precedence.  Trust me.  I do this for a living.

http://jurist.org/paperchase/2012/06/supreme-court-rules-on-equal-protection-in-taxation.php

Salty


----------



## DavidnRobin (Jul 17, 2012)

Seriously... that is how you read that?


----------



## jarta (Jul 18, 2012)

DavidnRobin said:


> Seriously... that is how you read that?



Clarity in communication is desirable.  What's the second "that?"

Is it the Supreme Court opinion or your saying "I can't believe it is even legal..." in response to Lisa's belief that Maui County may be the only taxing authority that has a timeshare category?

Last month's linked article about a US Supreme Court opinion is just the Court's latest exposition of the principles which govern legal analysis of a claim that a tax is illegal because it violates the Equal Protection clause.  Facts concerning the particular tax classification do not affect the principles of Equal Protection analysis used by the Court.  (Sort of like the principles of analysis used by scientists to reach a conclusion in the lab?)  The article states:

"The majority held that the Indianapolis program satisfied the rational basis requirement under the 14th Amendment: "*This Court has long held that 'a classification neither involving fundamental rights nor proceeding along suspect lines ... cannot run afoul of the Equal Protection Clause if there is a rational relationship between the disparity of treatment and some legitimate governmental purpose*.'"  The facts of the case involved a City tax for a new sanitation project that could be paid in a lump sum or over 20 years.  The taxpayers who paid the lump sum sued to at least get back a portion of what they paid when the tax was abolished after 4 years and those who paid in installments got completely off the hook for the last 16.  The claim that an illegal tax classification affecting Equal Protection was created when the tax was abolished was rejected by both the Indiana Supreme Court and, last month, the SCOTUS.  

I thought your response to Lisa's belief that Maui's classification was unique ("I can't believe it is even legal ...") involved a claim of denial of Equal Protection in taxation.  If there was another basis to the claim that I am missing, just post it.

Finally, I did not post that a claim against Maui's tax classification would fail.  I pointed out that these types of cases rarely are winners because the purpose of any tax ("we need the money") usually takes precedence.   Salty


----------



## Pmuppet (Jul 18, 2012)

alohakevin said:


> Here we go again. The Mayor of Maui has proposed a 7 percent increase in prop taxes for time share on Maui. This would take the rate from 15.00 to 16.50. This would be a combined total of 15 percent increase over the last two years. If you own a house in Maui the rate is 6.00. This is ridiculous. Once again the Mayor is choosing to alienate time share holders thinking they are an easy target. I would suggest we all make our concerns heard before the next council meeting on April 11th. Contact info can be found here www.ardaroc.org and click on Maui tax alert. I know that some will say it does no good to voice your opinion, I respectfully disagree. Last year there was a lot of good input and I believe it had an impact on the council. Granted tax went up but considerably less than what they were initially proposing. If we dont do anything we can be guaranteed of the outcome.



Exactly what is wrong with this country, imo.  Everyone is trying to find convenient methods to tax the next guy instead of everyone paying their fair share.

Not smart to attack tourist dollars are these are critical to the health of hawaii.

But here in seattle, we taxed hotels and rental cars to fund the stadium the seahawks play in.  And people wonder why Boeing HC left the state when our government is so anti business....


----------



## DavidnRobin (Jul 18, 2012)

DavidnRobin said:


> Seriously... that is how you read that?



Meaning - I know it is legal, but I cannot believe that it is...
(there are many examples of this in the world - in case you hadn't noticed. I would think someone as smart as yourself would be able to figure this out.)

Like... I cannot believe you still pick apart people's posts and their lack of complete and absolute clarity (based on multiple responses to you about this), but I understand that you have the legal right to do so...


----------

