# [2012] Restaurant no accept mag stripe card!



## Passepartout

Well, it was bound to happen. Had dinner in Barcelona last night and the restaurant waiter would not accept a standard garden variety US bank issued Visa debit card. The waiter wouldn't even swipe it after our urging! No big deal, we had cash. We used the card many times at shops, banks, rail stations, restaurants this trip, so was a bit put off by this waiter's attitude. He won't get another crack at me or a chance to make good. Harrumph!

Of course this is a harbinger of things to come. Hello Chip & PIN. And needing metal wallets to foil RFID readers.

Other than that and a few showers, it's been a delightful trip. We're winging our way home tomorrow.

Jim


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## Weimaraner

Wow that's not a good surprise. Just read last night  in my Marriott Rewards credit card update that they are including a chip for European travel. Had no idea what it was about. Maybe becaues the Visa debit card didn't have the SmartChip? Good to know for future travel although I tend to head to Caribbean rather than Europe.


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## Judy

Was the problem that it was a debit card or that it had no chip?


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## Passepartout

Judy said:


> no chip?



Sorry I thought the thread header made  that clear. He wanted a chip 'n pin card. Everyplace else, they just swipe the card then hit the green 'accept' key when asked for a pin and the charge goes through. He was just being obstinate. J


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## x3 skier

Used my chip and sign BA card in Vienna and Budapest this past week with no problem. They just stuck it in the machine a receipt pops out to be signed  OTOH, when I got the car out of the airport parking garage back home, it was rejected when they swiped it. 

No clue why but I will try again someplace else in town tomorrow and see what happens. 

Cheers


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## MaryH

Most of Europe is now on chip and pin..  Canada is 50% chip and pin too...


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## LynnW

MaryH said:


> Most of Europe is now on chip and pin..  Canada is 50% chip and pin too...



That may be true in Ontario but here in Alberta it is a much higher percentage. I can't remember the last time I was anywhere that didn't have a chip and pin except for Costco.

Lynn


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## Passepartout

I think we all know deep down inside that sooner or later all our credit/debit cards will be chip 'n' pin. Question is, when will banks start just supplying them instead of mag-stripe ones? When we consumers bail from our old banks and sign on- and carry our money- to those that provide what we want.

To continue with the original post, the next night, we went to a different restaurant in Barcelona. Another tapas place (I know, I'm addicted). They accepted our mag-stripe card, but it came with a receipt from a third party that already converted the currency to US Dollars at a pre-determined rate. It was not simply charged in Euros to my bank.

Bottom line: Use which-ever card you have and prefer to access cash at a European ATM, and pay for small purchases and restaurants with local currency instead of using a US bank's credit/debit card at all.

Jim


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## MaryH

1) Actually on a recent trip to BC, it was mostly pin and chip.

2) On my trip to France in October, my USD CC had pin and chip and I thought it has the same pin as my CAD CC and my bank card but it was a different generated PIN and I could not take out any money or used it to charge anything.  I dumped a chunk of change into the USD CC hoping to use it as a bank card for European ATM.

3) on many places in France they gave me the option of USD and local currency EUR.  did some quick calcs and I am better off charging it in local currency EUR.


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## answeeney

Passepartout said:


> Sorry I thought the thread header made  that clear. He wanted a chip 'n pin card. Everyplace else, they just swipe the card then hit the green 'accept' key when asked for a pin and the charge goes through. He was just being obstinate. J



I can understand your frustration but chip and pin was introduced to combat widespread card fraud. If this restaurant had recent experience of such fraud you can understand the waiter's wariness.


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## Carolinian

This is called Dynamic Currency Conversion (DCC) and is a ripoff because they charge you a truly awful exchange rate.  The card rules say that they are only supposed to do this if you approve, but some shady businesses do it automatically and there is a notation above where you sign that you requested it, when in fact you did not.  When I see this, I demand that they take it back and run it in local currency.  Usually they do without too much problem, but I had one auto rental company in Spain absolutely refuse to do that, saying that equipment was set up to do it that way and they could not override it.  I disputed the excess with my bank and they refunded it.

Another place to watch for DCC is at ATM's.  I have encountered several in Poland which asked if you wanted your bank billed in zloty or for your convenience in your own currency.  I suspected DCC and entered home currency at that stage to see what would happen, and as I suspected I was given a truly awful rate, so I backed out before pulling the trigger and selected zloty the next time.

Websites can also trick you on this.  Some casually ask what currency you want to be billed in, without telling you about the conversion rates, and if you select anything but their local currency, you get popped with an awful rate.  The most deceptive website I have seen on this is RyanAir, which throughout the transaction shows all prices in local currency.  The final page shows the final price in big numbers in local currency at the bottom right, but in small letters on the far left at the top is a prechecked box saying you want to have them convert the currency to your home currency.  To avoid DCC you have to find and uncheck this box.




Passepartout said:


> To continue with the original post, the next night, we went to a different restaurant in Barcelona. Another tapas place (I know, I'm addicted). They accepted our mag-stripe card, but it came with a receipt from a third party that already converted the currency to US Dollars at a pre-determined rate. It was not simply charged in Euros to my bank.
> 
> Bottom line: Use which-ever card you have and prefer to access cash at a European ATM, and pay for small purchases and restaurants with local currency instead of using a US bank's credit/debit card at all.
> 
> Jim


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## Carolinian

I have just had mixed experiences in traveling in France, Italy, and Romania.  In France and Italy, I had to explain that it was an American card and did not have a PIN, and it worked all but one time.  On that occaision, they swiped it, and tried several times to get it to approve, but it would not.  I had  my two chip and pin European cards with me, so I used one of them instead.

At Otopeni airport in Bucharest, I tried using my CapOne for a train ticket to the main train station, but the lady at the railroad counter said that the machine she had would only take chip and pin cards, that she had used machines at other stations that would accept American cards and had that issue come up a lot at the airport but her machine there would simply not take a swiped card without a PIN.  Again a European card did the trick.  When I got to the main train station, however, using CapOne was no problem at the ticket office, but at the KFC, their machine had the place to swipe it, but would not give approval  without a PIN, so again, out came one of my European cards.




x3 skier said:


> Used my chip and sign BA card in Vienna and Budapest this past week with no problem. They just stuck it in the machine a receipt pops out to be signed  OTOH, when I got the car out of the airport parking garage back home, it was rejected when they swiped it.
> 
> No clue why but I will try again someplace else in town tomorrow and see what happens.
> 
> Cheers


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## Passepartout

Carolinian said:


> This is called Dynamic Currency Conversion (DCC) and is a ripoff because they charge you a truly awful exchange rate.  The card rules say that they are only supposed to do this if you approve, but some shady businesses do it automatically and there is a notation above where you sign that you requested it, when in fact you did not.



This was exactly what happened at the restaurant. I let them have their little larceny because it was our last night in country and I was holding back my last few Euros for taxi, breakfast and incidentals the next day. The bill was only about 25 Euros and I made up for it by stiffing the jerk and not tipping him.

Thanks for fleshing out this scam for other travelers to see.

Jim


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## Judy

Is it possible to get a PIN and chip credit card if you only have a US address?


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## Talent312

Judy said:


> Is it possible to get a PIN and chip credit card if you only have a US address?



Yes, it is. This has been discussed in many previous threads.

Most commonly:
-- Chase British Airways card.
-- Globe Trek Rewards Visa from Andrews Federal Credit Union.

Bank of America has announced:
-- All newly-issued Merrill Lynch, U.S. Trust Accolade, BankAmericard Travel Rewards, BankAmericard Privileges, and Virgin Atlantic travel credit cards will automatically be chip-and-PIN cards. 
-- Users of BankAmericard Cash Rewards, BankAmericard Power Rewards, BankAmericard, AAA Members Rewards, NEA, Asiana Airlines, Alaska Airlines, Hawaiian Airlines, Royal Caribbean, and Norwegian Cruise Lines cards can request chip-and-PIN cards.


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## x3 skier

The Chase British Airways Card is not a Chip and PIN for charges, its a Chip and Signature. When you stick the card in the Chip reader, it almost always spits out a slip to sign. More secure that a stripe card but not a true Chip and PIN.

It also has a stripe for use in the antiquated USA.

You can use a PIN for ATM withdrawals but not for charges.

Cheers


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## Powderday

FYI, good article in last weeks Time magazine about credit card chips.


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## Passepartout

Powderday said:


> FYI, good article in last weeks Time magazine about credit card chips.



Nice comment, but useless to non-subscribers if you don't paraphrase or provide a link. Thanks anyway.


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## Powderday

The two sentence cliff note version. We'll all be carrying another chip soon, in the mean time, U.S. residents make sure you have cash in the pocket if you're leaving the country.  It did mention some banks that issue chip cards, don't remember which ones, ask your issuing bank for one.


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## memereDoris

It is not the choice of the waiter whether or not to accept the chip.  It is the business' decision.  The machines have to be updated and then the updates.  It took 4 months between the two processes at the last place I managed.  Just because we had the new machines did not mean we could use the chip readers.  

Some banks are also still not with the program.  It is very frustrating as a retailer because you still have the 3 groups.

1 - Terrified of technology (still want to write a cheque)

2 - Slowly updating but believe chip & pin is dangerous.

3 - The group that want everything updated the day it comes out.

Updates can be very costly to retailers.  We had to shut down our place of business for 4 hours for the data updates and they wouldn't let us do it during the hours we were normally closed.


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## GetawaysRus

I've been reading that US mag stripe cards won't necessarily work abroad.  It's a bit confusing, since there are Chip and Signature cards as well as true Chip and PIN cards.  But last summer I decided to arm myself with a Chip and PIN card in preparation for a trip to Spain this past fall.  I brought several of my regular mag stripe cards (the ones with no foreign transaction fees) and also the Chip and PIN card as a backup.

There is a long FlyerTalk thread on this topic:
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/cred...-available-today-chip-pin-chip-signature.html

And the thread will refer to this spreadsheet summarizing the cards:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Ani-u3tGk5hedGRvcE1ELVg5UmlGZk01SHZvTUMxdUE#gid=0

The number of true Chip and PIN cards is gradually increasing.

I decided on the Chin and PIN card offered by the State Dept Federal Credit Union (SDFCU).  Anyone can join SDFCU.  I placed $1 on deposit and was then able to apply for the credit card.  Their Chip and PIN card has no annual fee and no foreign transaction fees.  The approval process took much longer than an application with a major bank, such as Chase or Citi.  I suppose that the small credit unions need to be very careful about who they issue credit it.  The only downside to the card is that they assign you the 4-digit PIN, and I could not select or change that PIN number.  Life has gotten too complex - I've got quite a few PINs and passwords and online IDs to remember.  So this became just another PIN to remember.

As it turned out, my regular US mag stripe cards worked fine in Madrid, the Costa del Sol, and Andalusia (Seville, Cordoba, Granada).  I did buy our Alhambra tickets (in advance) using the SDFCU card, just in case.  When we got to the Alhambra, I inserted the SDFCU card into the ticket machine to pick up the entry tickets.  I simply don't know if a regular mag stripe card would have caused any issues there or not.

I probably still have that $1 on deposit at SDFCU.  By next summer, my money should grow to $1.01.


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## Passepartout

I think waaay too much is made of this. I just had the one restaurant (2 locations) play games with me over it, and I'm sure that was just as a way to fleece the tourists (me). I had no difficulty otherwise with my mag stripe cards. I used them at ATMs, train kiosks, grocery stores, gas stations, car rental counters, in taxis, and at numerous restaurants & bars.

Contrary to reports by Chicken Licken, the sky is NOT falling.

Jim


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## x3 skier

Passepartout said:


> I think waaay too much is made of this. I just had the one restaurant (2 locations) play games with me over it, and I'm sure that was just as a way to fleece the tourists (me). I had no difficulty otherwise with my mag stripe cards. I used them at ATMs, train kiosks, grocery stores, gas stations, car rental counters, in taxis, and at numerous restaurants & bars.
> 
> Contrary to reports by Chicken Licken, the sky is NOT falling.
> 
> Jim



Agree totally. The only real problem I have ever had in Europe was with the Dutch Railway System. They absolutely will not take anything except a chip card. I got cash from an ATM to buy the ticket but other than that, no problems since I do not use automated gas stations which require chip and pin.

Cheers


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## alanmj

Passepartout said:


> I think waaay too much is made of this. I just had the one restaurant (2 locations) play games with me over it, and I'm sure that was just as a way to fleece the tourists (me). I had no difficulty otherwise with my mag stripe cards. I used them at ATMs, train kiosks, grocery stores, gas stations, car rental counters, in taxis, and at numerous restaurants & bars.
> 
> Contrary to reports by Chicken Licken, the sky is NOT falling.
> 
> Jim



Totally agree. Yes, travel does sometimes involve "inconveniences", as in things working differently from what you are used to. But those who don't wish to be inconvenienced, should stay home.


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## riverdees05

Had the same problem this fall in Ireland.  It was at a sporting goods store and the cashier had to call in the number on the credit card for it to be accepted.


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## Carolinian

There are problems however.  I have been watching my gas gauge go toward E in rural France on a weekend and all the gas stations I found were unmanned and unless you had a chip and PIN card, you were not getting gas.

Now that I have two chip and PIN cards, I no longer have that worry.

The automatic ticket machines at train stations are often a similar problem.


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## Laurie

Carolinian said:


> There are problems however.  I have been watching my gas gauge go toward E in rural France on a weekend and all the gas stations I found were unmanned and unless you had a chip and PIN card, you were not getting gas.


This happened to us also, more than once in rural France a couple years ago, and it was a serious problem. One time we just sat at a gas station until someone else finally drove up, who was willing to take our cash and use her card to pump gas into our tank. On another day, the few and far between  gas stations we'd found for many many miles were completely deserted - so we had to abandon our plans to continue our road-trip sightseeing, and head back to our accommodations early - unsure whether we'd make it, and what we'd do if we did run out of gas. 

Making too big a deal of it? Depends on where you are and how badly you absolutely need to purchase something, for which chip and pin is the only option, and you don't have one.


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## GrayFal

Weimaraner said:


> Wow that's not a good surprise. Just read last night  in my Marriott Rewards credit card update that they are including a chip for European travel. Had no idea what it was about. Maybe becaues the Visa debit card didn't have the SmartChip? Good to know for future travel although I tend to head to Caribbean rather than Europe.



Thanks to this thread, I called Chase that issues our Marriott VISA card (no international transaction fee) - we explained we would be traveling in Europe and needed a chip card. We will keep the same account numbers & benefits and receive the new chip and pin cards in 3-5 business days. No need for a separate account.

Will post if there is a problem...


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## qb_bc

I was in the bank yesterday, and there was a sign up stating that as of January 1, 2013, ATMs in Canada would only be accepting chip and pin cards.


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## MoiAl

*Zip Codes*

Not quite the same as pins, but for us in Canada when travelling in the US and buying gas we're always asked to input our zip code which we don't have, otherwise we have to leave our credit card with the clerk when we fillup. Two times in the past 5 years I have returned home to find out that my card has been comprised. Just saying, don't know how it happened, but now if I have to leave my card, I just buy $20 till I need to fill again


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## Carolinian

MoiAl said:


> Not quite the same as pins, but for us in Canada when travelling in the US and buying gas we're always asked to input our zip code which we don't have, otherwise we have to leave our credit card with the clerk when we fillup. Two times in the past 5 years I have returned home to find out that my card has been comprised. Just saying, don't know how it happened, but now if I have to leave my card, I just buy $20 till I need to fill again



I am in the same boat when I am in the states.  My credit cards with US banks have my European mailing address, and the postal codes for them do not working in those stinking gas pump machines.  Usually, however, you can go inside and they can process the card there.  If they want to hold a card, I let them hold some cash instead.

I don't like for my card to go out of my sight.  Since restaurants often take the card elsewhere to process it, I usually pay cash there.  In some European countries, restaurants are one of the most likely places for a card to be compromised, and it happens in the US, too.


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## LynnW

MoiAl said:


> Not quite the same as pins, but for us in Canada when travelling in the US and buying gas we're always asked to input our zip code which we don't have, otherwise we have to leave our credit card with the clerk when we fillup. Two times in the past 5 years I have returned home to find out that my card has been comprised. Just saying, don't know how it happened, but now if I have to leave my card, I just buy $20 till I need to fill again



Since our postal codes use 3 letters and 3 numbers just use the 3 numbers followed by 00. Someone told us about this a few years ago and it works most of the time. Actually this last trip in November we were away for 5 weeks and it worked every time. 

Lynn


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## x3 skier

GrayFal said:


> Thanks to this thread, I called Chase that issues our Marriott VISA card (no international transaction fee) - we explained we would be traveling in Europe and needed a chip card. We will keep the same account numbers & benefits and receive the new chip and pin cards in 3-5 business days. No need for a separate account.
> 
> Will post if there is a problem...



Make sure it is a Chip and PIN and not it is a Chip and SIGNATURE. Even the CSR get confused about this. If you get a PIN to use, it might be just for ATM use and not for use as a credit/debit card. That's what my British Airways card from Chase is and cannot be used as a Chip and PIN in Europe. When I use it in Europe with the Chip, the machine at the store spits out a receipt for signature. It is hit or miss (mostly miss) working in an unattended machine. 

Cheers


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## GrayFal

x3 skier said:


> Make sure it is a Chip and PIN and not it is a Chip and SIGNATURE. Even the CSR get confused about this. If you get a PIN to use, it might be just for ATM use and not for use as a credit/debit card. That's what my British Airways card from Chase is and cannot be used as a Chip and PIN in Europe. When I use it in Europe with the Chip, the machine at the store spits out a receipt for signature. It is hit or miss (mostly miss) working in an unattended machine.
> 
> Cheers


Hmmmm yes, it seems to be a chip and SIGNATURE - they asked if we wanted a PIN number to use for cash advance but we said no....This is the Marriott Premiere Reward Card from Chase...my real problem will be unattended machine (gas stations) it seems.
Thanks for the heads up.


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## Bwolf

Partly because of this thread, I checked with Chase about our British Air Card, and it too is a chip and signature, not a chip and PIN.

I'm thinking about buying a Travelex chip and PIN - a prepaid currency card.

I need to do the math and see if their "conversion" rate is acceptable.  At the moment, it seems like a viable option for getting around in Devon this summer.


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## Carolinian

Bwolf said:


> Partly because of this thread, I checked with Chase about our British Air Card, and it too is a chip and signature, not a chip and PIN.
> 
> I'm thinking about buying a Travelex chip and PIN - a prepaid currency card.
> 
> I need to do the math and see if their "conversion" rate is acceptable.  At the moment, it seems like a viable option for getting around in Devon this summer.



I do not know what their rates are on the prepaid cards, but Travelex's rates at their exchange booths are regularly some of the worst in the industry.


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## Pompey Family

Bwolf said:


> Partly because of this thread, I checked with Chase about our British Air Card, and it too is a chip and signature, not a chip and PIN.
> 
> I'm thinking about buying a Travelex chip and PIN - a prepaid currency card.
> 
> I need to do the math and see if their "conversion" rate is acceptable.  At the moment, it seems like a viable option for getting around in Devon this summer.



Don't get a Travelex!  We used one in the states last year and 3/4 of the time it wasn't accepted.  Had an absolute nightmare with it and lost money when we brought it back and withdrew everything.


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## Bwolf

Pompey Family said:


> Don't get a Travelex!  We used one in the states last year and 3/4 of the time it wasn't accepted.  Had an absolute nightmare with it and lost money when we brought it back and withdrew everything.





Carolinian said:


> I do not know what their rates are on the prepaid cards, but Travelex's rates at their exchange booths are regularly some of the worst in the industry.



Well, I'll do the math.  Carolinian has given fair warning!

I am interested in why the Pompey Family would need to use Travelex in the states?  Did they issue you a magstripe card because you didn't have one?

We may just get a ton of British currency thru AAA.  Perhaps that is the best approach.  

Thank you both.


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## x3 skier

Bwolf said:


> We may just get a ton of British currency thru AAA.  Perhaps that is the best approach.



The easiest and cheapest way to get British currency is just use a Bank ATM in the UK. They are everywhere and are called Cash Points. 

Unless you use a non attended machine in the UK, a chip and signature card will work fine. 

Cheers


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## Bwolf

x3 skier said:


> The easiest and cheapest way to get British currency is just use a Bank ATM in the UK. They are everywhere and are called Cash Points.
> 
> Unless you use a non attended machine in the UK, a chip and signature card will work fine.
> 
> Cheers



Understood.  A ton of currency usual lasts about 4 days.  So, we'll probably use a Cash Point mid-way through the trip.  Thanks for the tip.


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## Pompey Family

Bwolf said:


> I am interested in why the Pompey Family would need to use Travelex in the states?  Did they issue you a magstripe card because you didn't have one?



I blame my wife, she thought it was a good idea.  Our debit/credit cards and ATM's have served us well on previous visits.  I think someone saw her coming.


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## Bwolf

Pompey Family said:


> I blame my wife, she thought it was a good idea.  Our debit/credit cards and ATM's have served us well on previous visits.  I think someone saw her coming.



She must be very attractive.


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## Pompey Family

Bwolf said:


> She must be very attractive.



Easily persuaded more like.


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## Carolinian

Bwolf said:


> Understood.  A ton of currency usual lasts about 4 days.  So, we'll probably use a Cash Point mid-way through the trip.  Thanks for the tip.



I have generally found that an ATM in Europe, especially countries like the UK where local user charges are uncommon, when you use a card like CapOne that does not charge currency conversion or other extra fees, works out to a much better exchange rate than any I have ever found in the US.  Exchange houses in eastern Europe can often give excellent rates, but that is not generally the case in the US or Western Europe.  I am a AAA member and at one time their rates on pound, guilder, mark, French franc, and Swiss franc denominated travellers checks was quite good, although it was necessary to go to the AAA afffiliated offices in those countries to change them for cash and most merchants would not take them.  When they changed to euro denominated TC's, the AAA rate became awful.  I was not that fond of TC's but in those days the AAA TC's had much less exchange loss than buying actual currency at any of our local banks.


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## Bwolf

Carolinian said:


> I have generally found that an ATM in Europe, especially countries like the UK where local user charges are uncommon, when you use a card like CapOne that does not charge currency conversion or other extra fees, works out to a much better exchange rate than any I have ever found in the US.  Exchange houses in eastern Europe can often give excellent rates, but that is not generally the case in the US or Western Europe.  I am a AAA member and at one time their rates on pound, guilder, mark, French franc, and Swiss franc denominated travellers checks was quite good, although it was necessary to go to the AAA afffiliated offices in those countries to change them for cash and most merchants would not take them.  When they changed to euro denominated TC's, the AAA rate became awful.  I was not that fond of TC's but in those days the AAA TC's had much less exchange loss than buying actual currency at any of our local banks.



That too is interesting.  We may get just enough money through AAA to last a day or two.  We have a card that does not charge currency conversion or other extra fees.  We may also be able to use certain surcharge free ATMs to withdraw from our savings acount.


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## Passepartout

Bwolf said:


> That too is interesting.  We may get just enough money through AAA to last a day or two.  We have a card that does not charge currency conversion or other extra fees.  We may also be able to use certain surcharge free ATMs to withdraw from our savings acount.



You'll get along fine using this strategy. Visa and M/C require all merchants to accept all of their cards. The exception being unattended (usually) rail and toll (small exits) roads. 99.99% of the time your mag-stripe ATM/Credit cards will work just fine. The examples I outlined waaay up in this thread were exceptions by one restaurant trying to fleece the tourists. Had I made an issue of it, I guarantee they would have accepted my card as they were required to do. It was just easier (read: less hassle) to pay cash.

I wouldn't even bother to get the GBP from AAA before departure. I'd just hit a bank ATM at the arrival airport after clearing customs/immigration. But that's me.

Jim


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## x3 skier

Passepartout said:


> I wouldn't even bother to get the GBP from AAA before departure. I'd just hit a bank ATM at the arrival airport after clearing customs/immigration. But that's me.
> 
> Jim



And me. 

Cheers


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## kwilson

We were in the Bannf/ Calgary area for a week in August. The only place that wouldn't take my CC was the Calgary Tower. To tell the truth I didn't realize it was the chip problem until reading this post.



LynnW said:


> That may be true in Ontario but here in Alberta it is a much higher percentage. I can't remember the last time I was anywhere that didn't have a chip and pin except for Costco.
> 
> Lynn


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## Pompey Family

Passepartout said:


> You'll get along fine using this strategy. Visa and M/C require all merchants to accept all of their cards. The exception being unattended (usually) rail and toll (small exits) roads.



Don't worry about toll roads, there's only one in the UK and that's the M6 toll road and you'll be going nowhere near it.  We don't take too kindly to toll roads, after all, that's what we pay road tax for..... apparently.


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## Bwolf

Passepartout said:


> You'll get along fine using this strategy. Visa and M/C require all merchants to accept all of their cards. The exception being unattended (usually) rail and toll (small exits) roads. 99.99% of the time your mag-stripe ATM/Credit cards will work just fine. The examples I outlined waaay up in this thread were exceptions by one restaurant trying to fleece the tourists. Had I made an issue of it, I guarantee they would have accepted my card as they were required to do. It was just easier (read: less hassle) to pay cash.
> 
> I wouldn't even bother to get the GBP from AAA before departure. I'd just hit a bank ATM at the arrival airport after clearing customs/immigration. But that's me.
> 
> Jim



I too usually follow the "don't be an ugly American" rule.  Then again, I can't help how I look. 

We may follow your and x3 skier's advice on the currency.  On the advice of my in-laws, we will dig out what change we have left from our last trip.  We may need a certain amount of pence for the pay toilets.


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## Carolinian

Bwolf said:


> That too is interesting.  We may get just enough money through AAA to last a day or two.  We have a card that does not charge currency conversion or other extra fees.  We may also be able to use certain surcharge free ATMs to withdraw from our savings acount.



Virtually all ATM's in the UK attached to banks do not charge a local fee for their use.  If you find a stand alone machine somewhere else, it might.


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## Bwolf

Carolinian said:


> Virtually all ATM's in the UK attached to banks do not charge a local fee for their use.  If you find a stand alone machine somewhere else, it might.



Very good point.  I'll take along a list of the "surcharge-free" stand alone ATMs for the area we are visiting.


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## x3 skier

Carolinian said:


> Virtually all ATM's in the UK attached to banks do not charge a local fee for their use.  If you find a stand alone machine somewhere else, it might.



Agree! In fact I have not noticed any stand alone Bank Affiliated ATMs in my visits to the UK. There may be some but all the ones I have noticed were attached to a branch either on the street or inside. 

Any stand alone versions were non bank devices which I felt would offer non competitive rates and/or fees but since I never use them I can't offer an absolute judgement.

Cheers


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## Pompey Family

Bwolf said:


> We may need a certain amount of pence for the pay toilets.



You won't need that either.  The only pay toilets I've ever come across in the UK have been the ones at Waterloo station.  I have never paid to use the toilet's, public or otherwise anywhere else in the UK.  The rest of Europe, yes, but not here.  Admittedly some of the public ones aren't going to be as clean as an attended one in Europe but equally you won't have to endure some old woman cleaning around your feet as you try and pee.  You'll find free public toilets at virtually every tourist destination, some better than others, plus there's always pubs and McDonalds.


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## Judy

I'm going to need a Cirrus ATM at Heathrow before I reach the Underground station.  Will it be possible to find one that's affiliated with a bank?


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## Passepartout

Judy said:


> I'm going to need a Cirrus ATM at Heathrow before I reach the Underground station.  Will it be possible to find one that's affiliated with a bank?



Cirrus is a network. If your card is branded Visa or Master Card or Discover or Amex, you'll be fine.


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## Judy

Passepartout said:


> Cirrus is a network. If your card is branded Visa or Master Card or Discover or Amex, you'll be fine.


My card is an ATM card, not a credit card.  It's branded "Capital One Bank" not MasterCard, Discover, Amex, or Visa.  I think that MasterCard owns the Cirrus ATM network.


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## x3 skier

Judy said:


> My card is an ATM card, not a credit card.  It's branded "Capital One Bank" not MasterCard, Discover, Amex, or Visa.  I think that MasterCard owns the Cirrus ATM network.



I have not noticed bank ATM's in Heathrow the last few times I have been there. When my brother met me there and he needed to get to London via the London Connect, he just charged a ticket and when we got to Paddington, he got an Oyster Card and loaded that with a travel card. There are bank ATM's in/near Paddington IIRC. Cirrus is a major network and I would assume the ATM's at Paddington as well as other major train stations take Cirrus. If not, you might have to walk a block or two to find a bank. 

If you desperately need cash on arrival, but I see no reason for that as you can charge anything at Heathrow,there are many ForEx booths as well as non Bank ATM's. The fact that they may have an atrocious rate / fees really doesn't matter if all you need is a few pounds until you can get to a Bank ATM.

Cheers


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## Carolinian

Another option for a few quid at the airport is to buy something - a cup of coffee or a newspaper.  Most airport shops take dollars and give change in pounds, and often at a better rate and with no ''minimum commissiion'' that airport exchange booths are notorious for.

Some times certain businesses outside the airport will also take dollars and give change in local currency at a decent rate.  Before the advent of the euro, the best rates on Luxembourg francs was the McDonalds in the city.  The two banks that did exchanges had worse rates plus a commission.  McDonalds had no commission and a better rate.  I did all my exchanging there.  Buy a coke and hand them a US fifty or hundred.




x3 skier said:


> I have not noticed bank ATM's in Heathrow the last few times I have been there. When my brother met me there and he needed to get to London via the London Connect, he just charged a ticket and when we got to Paddington, he got an Oyster Card and loaded that with a travel card. There are bank ATM's in/near Paddington IIRC. Cirrus is a major network and I would assume the ATM's at Paddington as well as other major train stations take Cirrus. If not, you might have to walk a block or two to find a bank.
> 
> If you desperately need cash on arrival, but I see no reason for that as you can charge anything at Heathrow,there are many ForEx booths as well as non Bank ATM's. The fact that they may have an atrocious rate / fees really doesn't matter if all you need is a few pounds until you can get to a Bank ATM.
> 
> Cheers


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## Passepartout

Carolinian said:


> Before the advent of the euro, the best rates on Luxembourg francs was the McDonalds in the city.  The two banks that did exchanges had worse rates plus a commission.  McDonalds had no commission and a better rate.  I did all my exchanging there.  Buy a coke and hand them a US fifty or hundred.



Another good strategy if you just need just a few of the local currency when traveling abroad. We've used McDonalds and other (unknown) fast food outlets in service plazas on toll highways for a small bit of local change. Never tried US $50 or more, but have used Euros in Czech or Poland. Romania didn't work so well when a woman attendant wouldn't take a Euro to let me pee and I had to get local change before I could use the toilet!

The joys of travel!


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## David10225

*Chip and Pin*

I just converted my USAA Master Card to Chip and Pin.  I keep the same number, but I can't go back to just a regular card.  Was able to do it on their webiste.


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## MaryH

I am more familiar with terminal 3 and there are several bank ATMs as you exit, down the row from the Boots.  Alternatively I have bought some stuff from duty free, Marks & Spencer and Boots at the airport and gave them US or CAD cash and they gave me change in Pounds.  That is if I only needed a few pounds of cash.  The exchange is not great but not bad considering I get hit $5 for an interac withdraw so only make sense when it is 200-300 gbp.


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## Rose Pink

Bwolf said:


> ... We may need a certain amount of pence for the pay toilets.


 


Pompey Family said:


> You won't need that either. The only pay toilets I've ever come across in the UK have been the ones at Waterloo station. I have never paid to use the toilet's, public or otherwise anywhere else in the UK. *The rest of Europe, yes*, ....


 


Passepartout said:


> .... Romania didn't work so well when a woman attendant wouldn't take a Euro to let me pee and I had to get local change before I could use the toilet!
> 
> The joys of travel!


 
Oh, great one more thing for me to worry about.  I had forgotten that toilets are not free in Europe.  We are traveling to Italy to visit family.  Guess I'll have to remember to go on the plane before landing.  Are the airport restrooms pay?  Specifically, Charles de Gaulle and Naples?  I wasn't planning on getting any Euros until we arrived in Italy and my son took us to the base exchange.


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## Passepartout

Don't worry about the potties, Rose. They're free except in the boonies where old women collect a few coins for keeping them clean. Public rest rooms are not as ubiquitous as in USA, but you'll do fine. Much more of a concern in China, but even there, free Western toilets are becoming standard.
Incidentally, in Europe, it 's called the _'toilet'._ If you call it the 'rest room', you'll just get curious stares.

Jim


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## Pompey Family

Rose Pink said:


> Oh, great one more thing for me to worry about.  I had forgotten that toilets are not free in Europe.  We are traveling to Italy to visit family.  Guess I'll have to remember to go on the plane before landing.  Are the airport restrooms pay?  Specifically, Charles de Gaulle and Naples?  I wasn't planning on getting any Euros until we arrived in Italy and my son took us to the base exchange.



I'm pretty sure the airport toilets are free.  I can't remember Naples, it was so long ago but certainly Rome was free.  Malaga is free as is Paris Orly so my guess is that most if not all will be free.

Just take a handful of coppers with you if you don't have any Euro coins.  If you do it quick enough and leave sharpish the clink clink in the bowl should be enough to absolve you of your obligation but only if the old woman isn't sat there in front of the bowl!


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## Rose Pink

Pompey Family said:


> I'm pretty sure the airport toilets are free. I can't remember Naples, it was so long ago but certainly Rome was free. Malaga is free as is Paris Orly so my guess is that most if not all will be free.
> 
> Just take a handful of coppers with you if you don't have any Euro coins. If you do it quick enough and leave sharpish the clink clink in the bowl should be enough to absolve you of your obligation but only if the old woman isn't sat there in front of the bowl!


 
For those times when it is expected, how much is the "going" rate?  I don't want to insult anyone.  I can't imagine working in a toilet area is the most pleasant of jobs.  Are we expected to cover the cost of supplies or just her time?

I remember the first time I visited Europe (Germany) and was surprised at the pay toilets.  Even the unattended ones had a bowl for money.  Made me glad I lived in the USA, land of the free (toilet).  Although, I did see a news story recently about a restaurant owner that had the police track down a woman who had used her facilities without buying anything.


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## Passepartout

Use a 20-to 50 Euro cent coin or so. Make change from what's in the bowl if you want. A little more if they provide paper or soap- less if they don't. We've had really good experiences abroad using McDonald's/BK/KFC for uniformly clean, well equipped facilities. Most all restaurants will have facilities if you are buying a meal there. 

I think you will find very few, if any, pay pottie situations in your travels. It isn't like you will be 'going' off the beaten path.


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## Carolinian

Rose Pink said:


> Oh, great one more thing for me to worry about.  I had forgotten that toilets are not free in Europe.  We are traveling to Italy to visit family.  Guess I'll have to remember to go on the plane before landing.  Are the airport restrooms pay?  Specifically, Charles de Gaulle and Naples?  I wasn't planning on getting any Euros until we arrived in Italy and my son took us to the base exchange.



If Michael O'Leary, CEO of RyanAir gets his way, there may be pay toilets in the sky in Europe, too!

I have not yet seen a pay toilet in an airport in Europe, although sometimes fast food restaurants in the cities have pay toilets (such as most of them in Vienna).

And at some railroad stations in Romania, Bulgaria, Ukraine, Moldova,etc. in the rural areas toilets may offer nothing but a hole in the ground or floor (they are known as ''squatters'').  In larger places they may be flushing holes in the floor, so at least they lack the smells of those that do not flush.


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## Pompey Family

Rose Pink said:


> For those times when it is expected, how much is the "going" rate?  I don't want to insult anyone.  I can't imagine working in a toilet area is the most pleasant of jobs.  Are we expected to cover the cost of supplies or just her time?



I pay as little as I can.  There's no going rate as such but sometimes I've had nothing smaller than a Euro and it doesn't feel right taking change for some reason.  Sometimes I won't even pay at all. I really despise having to pay to the use the toilet, a basic necessity.  If the free toilets in the rest of the civilized world can be kept clean without having every customer pay a fee then I don't see why those in the rest of Europe can't.


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## pacodemountainside

*Credit Card Chips*

Looks like chips  are coming  to USA!

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB100...270849121246.html?mod=ITP_moneyandinvesting_0


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## x3 skier

pacodemountainside said:


> Looks like chips  are coming  to USA!
> 
> http://online.wsj.com/article/SB100...270849121246.html?mod=ITP_moneyandinvesting_0



I have had a Chip credit card for a couple of years now. Lots of places to get one. They are chip and signature for the most part but there are a few that are Chip and PIN.

I never use it in an ATM since it treats withdrawals as a cash advance. 

Cheers


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## MaryH

I have used one of my CC as an ATM card by transferring cash into it and not using it for charges.  As a Canadian with a US bank account and US credit card on my Canadian bank, I cannot withdraw money in USD in the US.   I have to hit my Canadian acct for the USD which is insane when I have USD sitting there in US acct.  Finally found a work around by transferring USD from acct to US CC and do a cash advance on US CC.  Since I have the cash to cover the ATM withdraw there is no interest.


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