# very very very dissapointed



## 1965 (Apr 25, 2012)

i just cancelled my search for a (2) bedroom at the marriot waiohai beach club for June 5,2012 to August 15,2012. I was using a (1) bedroom  Marriott Desert Springs #2 for trade. The highest demand week for that (1) bedroom Marriott Desret Springs. I tried for (8) months and failed. I had succeeded (3) other times in my lifetime

I currently am (23) days into a (2)  bedroom at the Marriott Waiohai Beach Cub anything between September 1,2012 to September 30,2012 or a (1) bedroom at the Marriott Maui Ocean club between September 1,2012 to September 30,2012.  I am using my Marriot Desert Springs (1) bedroom lock off for either of these trades. The highest trade demand week for that Marriott Desert Springs # 2: one bedroom. I have had no success. 
 I have made this exact same trade  twice, in only (3) days, in the past

am I having Bad luck? or has something changed with Interval Marriott Hawaiian Island Deposits?


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## thinze3 (Apr 25, 2012)

Sorry to here.  This is just another devaluation to old Marriott owners.

I think your 1BR in Maui will come through for sure.  There are lots of these floating around.  I would possibly open it up to 1BR at KBC as well.

Obviously the system had changed with the DC.  Many more folks have the ability to pool there lessor weeks and make it to Hawaii now.


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## rsackett (Apr 25, 2012)

If you get a match for a one bedroom, I would keep looking in Flexchange for a two bedroom if that is what you want. Then call II and re-trade for the new week.  I have done this in the past successfully matching the exact dates of my original exchange.  It seems Marriott is releasing weeks into II later than they did in the past.

Ray


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## FractionalTraveler (Apr 25, 2012)

I did a quick search for you in DC and I can see 2-BR Waiohai units available on:

1. June 2 and 3
2. August 18, 19, 20, 21, 29, 30, 31
3. September 1-30 (Wide open availability any day of the month)

Maui Ocean Club is also wide open availability any day of the week in September for a 2-BR.

If you can use DC points, the weeks you are looking for are there for the taking.


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## jdunn1 (Apr 25, 2012)

What matters most in any Marriott to Marriott trade via II is the size of the unit you gave up.  Platinum studios used to see everything that was available to other Marriott owners, even two bedroom and three bedrooms.  Now, studios only see other Marriott studios, outside of flex and way off season.  You can still see two and three bedroom non-marriott weeks with a marriott studio, but not other marriotts.

I tried that game of depositing a one bedroom and trying to get a two bedroom at the Carolina Marriotts, which only have two bedroom units and I never got my summer beach week last year.  I heard from MANY other Marriott owners who were also locked out of a Carolina summer beach week trade.  Believe it of not, summer Carolina weeks are ever much as difficult and powerful a trade as anything in Hawaii.

Anyway, this year, I know of at least one person who got that elite summer Carolina trade using an inland resort (Harbor Lake), but they had to deposit the entire two bedroom, not just a one bedroom.  I am convinced that the way II is working today (and it may change tomorrow) you need to give up your entire lock-off unit to trade into another Marriott two bedroom in Platinum season.  

For next year, you may want to do a request first with your entire 2 bedroom for a Hawaii week.  I bet you get the trade sooner than later.  If a few months pass and no trade, then take your week back, lock it off and try trading the same way you have, before.  I know I do not want to give up my entire lock-off unit, but to get a Carolina summer beach week or a Hawaii week, I would.  My dues are cheaper than anything in Hawaii and my buy in costs were next to nothing, where the summer Carolina weeks costs well into the 10's of thousands, still.

These have been my observations over the past year or so, and I have only been a Marriott owner for close to two years.


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## 1965 (Apr 25, 2012)

Fractional Traveler:

is this your point!  I am very very dissapointed with my marriott intreval trades
traditional method, at this moment
but 
if I converted my Marriott regular (7) day weeks into a Marriott Point system.
I would be able to get very easily. The dates, resorts and locations on the
haiwiian islands of Kauai and Maui, at this moment.

THanks for your help.


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## FractionalTraveler (Apr 25, 2012)

1965 said:


> Fractional Traveler:
> 
> is this your point!  I am very very dissapointed with my marriott intreval trades
> traditional method, at this moment
> ...



My point was to try and be helpful by providing you some availability for the dates you requested using the DC program since you have not had any luck with interval.

Why would I do the same search in Interval if you have already done that and were unsuccessful?

I have no idea if the DC option is available to you or not.  I just wanted to provide you with another option to get your vacation.

Regrettably, I can't help you with your Interval Exchanges so this is the best I could do to assist.

If you were just venting on TUG, I understand.

Best Wishes.


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## mlfrancis (Apr 25, 2012)

*not totally true...*



jdunn1 said:


> What matters most in any Marriott to Marriott trade via II is the size of the unit you gave up.  Platinum studios used to see everything that was available to other Marriott owners, even two bedroom and three bedrooms.  Now, studios only see other Marriott studios, outside of flex and way off season.  You can still see two and three bedroom non-marriott weeks with a marriott studio, but not other marriotts.



I just did a search in II with my gold Aruba Surf Club "studio" and was able to pull one- and two-bedroom units in the Spain, Orlando, and Carolina Marriotts (didn't look beyond that).  These were available off-season but some included Thanksgiving week - and you can get the Orlando resorts starting in September.  

I think getting using a studio to get a larger Marriott unit is difficult based on the season, not necessarily the size of the unit.  I can't even get a 2BR Carolina summer week with a 2BR ASC, just tested that.

As an FYI, I was trying to get an "ownertrades.com" swap for a second Waiohai week with my ASC week for 2013, no luck; but in checking II a few weeks ago, there were 3 Westin Kauai Princeville 2BR's available - so I did a quick trade of an OceanWatch 4/13 week (they're not Marriotts but those Westin weeks were selling for $80K pre-construction when we looked at them).  So I really believe II is alive and well.

But I wouldn't cancel those requests ... quite often one will come thru closer to the date - if you're flexible and aren't worried about the airfare.  And check II as often as you can.


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## dougp26364 (Apr 25, 2012)

This could be as simple as the economy starting to recover and timeshare owners starting to take vacations again. There could be pent up demand that's been waiting for the opportunity to vacation in Hawaii again. Maybe more Waiohai owners are using their weeks rather than trading them and finding locations with cheaper airfare. Maybe more Marriott owners are requesting exchanges in using larger units. Maybe there's more boken weeks from people taking 4 or 5 night midweek stays using points Maybe the DC trust is taking and holding units for trust owners. Most likely it's a combination of all of the above. 

The landscape will change with the advent of the Destination Club, trust based ownership and legacy week conversions to points. Some of what was once possible probably will be unlikely in the future. It's going to take a little while to learn the lay of this new land.

Right now I find myself reading more about what other Marriott owners have done and probing with my weeks and points from weeks I converted to see what is and what is not out there. It's going to take me a couple of years to learn to play the game the new Marriott way.


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## BocaBum99 (Apr 25, 2012)

1965 said:


> i just cancelled my search for a (2) bedroom at the marriot waiohai beach club for June 5,2012 to August 15,2012. I was using a (1) bedroom  Marriott Desert Springs #2 for trade. The highest demand week for that (1) bedroom Marriott Desret Springs. I tried for (8) months and failed. I had succeeded (3) other times in my lifetime
> 
> I currently am (23) days into a (2)  bedroom at the Marriott Waiohai Beach Cub anything between September 1,2012 to September 30,2012 or a (1) bedroom at the Marriott Maui Ocean club between September 1,2012 to September 30,2012.  I am using my Marriot Desert Springs (1) bedroom lock off for either of these trades. The highest trade demand week for that Marriott Desert Springs # 2: one bedroom. I have had no success.
> I have made this exact same trade  twice, in only (3) days, in the past
> ...



Nope, this disappointment is only the start of much more disappointment down the road.  I dumped my Marriotts late last year because of it.

Marriott truly sucks.  It sucks so bad, they dumped it themselves.


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## Quilter (Apr 25, 2012)

FractionalTraveler said:


> I have no idea if the DC option is available to you or not.  I just wanted to provide you with another option to get
> 
> Best Wishes.



FT, in a broad sense, isn't the DC available to everyone?  What I'm getting at, 1965 could find a DC member, have that person secure Waiohai reservation, and rent the amount of points it took for reservation.

Right?


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## GregT (Apr 25, 2012)

1965 said:


> i just cancelled my search for a (2) bedroom at the marriot waiohai beach club for June 5,2012 to August 15,2012. I was using a (1) bedroom  Marriott Desert Springs #2 for trade. The highest demand week for that (1) bedroom Marriott Desret Springs. I tried for (8) months and failed. I had succeeded (3) other times in my lifetime
> 
> I currently am (23) days into a (2)  bedroom at the Marriott Waiohai Beach Cub anything between September 1,2012 to September 30,2012 or a (1) bedroom at the Marriott Maui Ocean club between September 1,2012 to September 30,2012.  I am using my Marriot Desert Springs (1) bedroom lock off for either of these trades. The highest trade demand week for that Marriott Desert Springs # 2: one bedroom. I have had no success.
> I have made this exact same trade  twice, in only (3) days, in the past
> ...



1965,

I'll be curious if you get the 1BR uptrade into Waiohai in September -- I would think the chances are reasonable because September is slower, but many of those Waiohai deposits may have already matched several months ago.

Waiohai is one of those properties that is very very lean in the Trust, therefore I would think that Marriott acquires every Waiohai deposit they can that is deposited into II.   

I actually would have been surprised if the 1BR did Uptrade into the 2BR for Waiohai in the summer time -- that's terrific that it was worked in the past but I'm skeptical about the repeatability of this in the future.

We will see -- interesting stuff watching the changes in the environment.

Best,

Greg


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## Passepartout (Apr 25, 2012)

Lemme see if I got this right. The OP is ticked off that he can't exchange a 1 BR lock-off at Palm Springs for a 2 BR Hawaii high demand Summer week. Maybe it has worked in the past, but I can't see being put-out when I can't exchange like-for like.

Jim


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## SueDonJ (Apr 25, 2012)

Quilter said:


> FT, in a broad sense, isn't the DC available to everyone?  What I'm getting at, 1965 could find a DC member, have that person secure Waiohai reservation, and rent the amount of points it took for reservation.
> 
> Right?



Yep, pretty much right.   

A DC Member can rent Points from another Member.  Those Points will be transferred to the rentee's DC account and total control of any reservations made with them will remain with the rentee.

Someone who is not a DC Member can rent a reservation from a Member.  However, total control of the reservation and the Points used to make it will remain with the DC Member.  (It's very similar to renting MVCI Weeks.)


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## tjkahn (Apr 25, 2012)

SueDonJ said:


> Yep, pretty much right.
> 
> A DC Member can rent Points from another Member.  Those Points will be transferred to the rentee's DC account and total control of any reservations made with them will remain with the rentee.
> 
> Someone who is not a DC Member can rent a reservation from a Member.  However, total control of the reservation and the Points used to make it will remain with the DC Member.  (It's very similar to renting MVCI Weeks.)



All this aside, isn't the point of the OP that in the past he/she was able to make these trades free (or with just the internal exchange fee)?  With all due respect, renting points from another member doesn't accomplish what the OP is looking for and has been able to do in the past.

Also, why would the OP rent points?  Wouln't it be much better economically to enroll in DC, use his own points, and have DC available to him forever, as opposed to essentilly paying for his room by renting points?

If a unit is available through DC (as Fractional Traveler indicates it is), the OP is much better off paying the $595 - $1,995 fee for one or more of his weeks and having DC available to him for as long as he owns, as opposed to paying a rental fee that I would imagine would cost just as much.


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## SueDonJ (Apr 25, 2012)

tjkahn said:


> All this aside, isn't the point of the OP that in the past he/she was able to make these trades free (or with just the internal exchange fee)?  With all due respect, renting points from another member doesn't accomplish what the OP is looking for and has been able to do in the past.
> 
> Also, why would the OP rent points?  Wouln't it be much better economically to enroll in DC, use his own points, and have DC available to him forever, as opposed to essentilly paying for his room by renting points?
> 
> If a unit is available through DC (as Fractional Traveler indicates it is), the OP is much better off paying the $595 - $1,995 fee for one or more of his weeks and having DC available to him for as long as he owns, as opposed to paying a rental fee that I would imagine would cost just as much.



All good points, but I was only responding to Quilter's specific questions about renting DC Points/reservations.


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## jme (Apr 25, 2012)

BocaBum99 said:


> Nope, this disappointment is only the start of much more disappointment down the road.  I dumped my Marriotts late last year because of it.Marriott truly sucks.  It sucks so bad, they dumped it themselves.



sorry it's been so bad for you. We have 7 Marriott weeks, all but two since the 90's, and could not be happier. I'm well familiar with the company and the product, old and new, so it's not like I'm blind to anything. 

most Marriott owners feel that way, far more than you imagine, and with good cause.  Some who are disillusioned might possibly be those who lock off and try to get 2-BR's with a 1 BR, or either 100% upgrades of season or resort. That old system (which did offer that fairly often) is gone with the wind..... altho, come to think of it, I did trade 2 weeks recently and got upgrades of season on both.

we OCCUPY mostly, and trade maybe 1-2 weeks per year, and have always gotten our trades, so there's no reason for me to be remotely disappointed. I wonder what your resorts & seasons were? maybe that was it.

 I still get XYZ weeks, AC weeks, and enjoy perks of platinum elite status, and to be honest, we have more superior weeks than we can use sometimes.


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## Quilter (Apr 25, 2012)

SueDonJ said:


> All good points, but I was only responding to Quilter's specific questions about renting DC Points/reservations.



Hello from Whole Foods in Ann Arbor MI, last stop before home  40 nights in Marriott beds.

 I was responding to OP's dilemma that he was very,very, very disappointed not going to Waiohai in June.   The DC has created many options but some are not so apparent as others.


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## jdunn1 (Apr 25, 2012)

I've only been a Marriott owner for two years, now.  I am thrilled with my resale purchases, both of which do not qualify for the DC.

Took me a year to figure out doing an uptrade to the Carolinas in the summer or a ski week wasn't going to happen.  Likely, those trades (mainly the Carolinas) will happen if I deposit my full unit, but you live and learn, I guess.

I think inventory will remain good in II for those of us Marriott owners locked out of the DC.  Just like I am certain it is only a matter of time before Marriott starts adjusting points for the various resorts.  It's also just a matter of time before people who are in love with the DC realize they are having to make do with shorter stays or smaller rooms and those who are trading for points this year, may not trade for points next year.  I read somewhere that most DC members were having to borrow points.  That game can only last so long.  I was a DVC owner, so I know the pitfalls of borrowing.  I never borrowed my DVC points becuase I read too many posts from people who did and then they were always stuck waiting not for their current years points, those points were long gone, but for the followin years points so they could borrow them.  Not a good cycle to be caught up in.

For me, owning one week to trade and one week to use has been nice and I do not see any downside to that.  I wish I could afford another weeks worth of dues each year so I could get another trader week, in fact.  

Uptrades are hard to come by these days for Marriott to Marriott.  This will change, but for now, we just have to roll with it.  I love the XYZ program, too.





jme said:


> sorry it's been so bad for you. We have 7 Marriott weeks, all but two since the 90's, and could not be happier. I'm well familiar with the company and the product, old and new, so it's not like I'm blind to anything.
> 
> most Marriott owners feel that way, far more than you imagine, and with good cause.  Some who are disillusioned might possibly be those who lock off and try to get 2-BR's with a 1 BR, or either 100% upgrades of season or resort. That old system (which did offer that fairly often) is gone with the wind..... altho, come to think of it, I did trade 2 weeks recently and got upgrades of season on both.
> 
> ...


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## BocaBum99 (Apr 25, 2012)

jme said:


> sorry it's been so bad for you. We have 7 Marriott weeks, all but two since the 90's, and could not be happier. I'm well familiar with the company and the product, old and new, so it's not like I'm blind to anything.
> 
> most Marriott owners feel that way, far more than you imagine, and with good cause.  Some who are disillusioned might possibly be those who lock off and try to get 2-BR's with a 1 BR, or either 100% upgrades of season or resort. That old system (which did offer that fairly often) is gone with the wind..... altho, come to think of it, I did trade 2 weeks recently and got upgrades of season on both.
> 
> ...



Marriott hasn't been bad for me.  I got great trades during my 3-4 year ownership.  I got out before it got truly bad.

When I say that Marriott sucks.  I mean the company.  They had a chance to make a really great product and they blew it.  It's one of the worst programs in the industry now.  It's not worth owning anymore.  I had high hopes, but they really messed it up.

This won't stop me from staying at Marriott resorts.  I will rent them for far below MF.  I will simply thank owners for subsidizing my stays.


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## jme (Apr 25, 2012)

BocaBum99 said:


> Marriott hasn't been bad for me.  I got great trades during my 3-4 year ownership.  I got out before it got truly bad.
> 
> When I say that Marriott sucks.  I mean the company.  They had a chance to make a really great product and they blew it.  It's one of the worst programs in the industry now.  It's not worth owning anymore.  I had high hopes, but they really messed it up.
> 
> This won't stop me from staying at Marriott resorts.  I will rent them for far below MF.  I will simply thank owners for subsidizing my stays.



I challenge you to rent Grande Ocean, Barony, or Myrtle Beach's OceanWatch in platinum season (which is what we own) for "far below" maintenance fee. That kind of deal doesn't happen, DOES NOT HAPPEN, and if you tell me where I can find it, I'll be all over it. The rest of us would like to know too. That's why i mentioned that I'd like to know where and what season you owned. 

And as i mentioned previously, the product has not changed for me.....not one single bit. We purchased to occupy, we still occupy, and no one knocks on the door and says we have to leave early, or pay more. And we get whatever weeks we want..... so what has changed?  We bought time, we get time. 

I'm not a trader who tries to get diamonds for coal. That does make some people mad if a trade like that doesn't happen, but it shouldn't. So, what resorts and seasons did you own? I'm immensely curious, because I think it'll explain a lot.


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## windje2000 (Apr 25, 2012)

jdunn1 said:


> I think inventory will remain good in II for those of us Marriott owners locked out of the DC.



The mid June price increase in the DC initiation fee effectively slams the door on most folks.  

The number of legacy members of DC will decline over time and the number of points owners will increase.

They wanted legacies in DC to 'prime the inventory pump' for points buyers when they rolled out DC.  They now probably control enough inventory to shut the door unless you are willing to pay more than $2K to enroll.  Not likely to attract a lot of interest.

I think the OP has/had unrealistic expectations.  I don't expect to be upgraded to first class every time I step on a plane with a discounted coach ticket.  But its real nice when it happens :whoopie:


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## RBERR1 (Apr 25, 2012)

I tried to do 13 months out July 4 Sunset Pointe for either 2BR in August for either Ko-Olina, Maui either Marriott or Westin.  No hits for 9 months. At 6 monhts I booked the week I needed using DC.  Booked flights so I cancelled all of the Maui dates and added in 2BR at all of the Carribbean resorts for March and kept Ko-Olina II request in and still no hits there either.

Now I am doing 2BR for 2BR so no issue around uptrade.  I know Sunset Pointe is not the same as the big 3 on HHI (BB, SW, or GO) but still I am giving a July 4 Hilton Head week which should be quite valuable in II.

It is interesting becuase I have discussed my trade request with II and they keep saying don't worry it should hit as a July 4 Hilton Head week has enough clout to pull these things but it is disappointing that it is taking so long. 

I am glad some others seem to be having better success cause at least it gives me some hope.

Whether I have used BB or CH in the past to II trade even into summer HHI, I never had a hit that went less than 11 months to arrival so the waiting like this is quite new to me.

This is my only deposit left in the old II account and I just want it used and from now on I am only doing request first as the deposit first does not seem to work as well as it used to.

In terms of Ko-Olina I guess I am ok as long as it hits before the 60 days hits in for me to cancel the DC reservation but I hate the unknown as depending on how this plays out determines whether I need to roll 2012 pts into 2013 or using my weeks at home resorts in 2013 or converting my 2013 weeks to pts and try to book something.

For now, I guess I book my home resort weeks for 2013 and wait and worst case scenario I just go to them,try to rent them, or rent the DC pts. (which is not that bad at all).


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## jimf41 (Apr 25, 2012)

BocaBum99 said:


> Marriott truly sucks.  It sucks so bad, they dumped it themselves.



I really hate it when people sugarcoat their posts. It makes it hard to understand their true feelings. Honestly I wasn't aware that you left. I didn't hear the door slam.


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## dougp26364 (Apr 25, 2012)

jme said:


> sorry it's been so bad for you. We have 7 Marriott weeks, all but two since the 90's, and could not be happier. I'm well familiar with the company and the product, old and new, so it's not like I'm blind to anything.
> 
> most Marriott owners feel that way, far more than you imagine, and with good cause.  Some who are disillusioned might possibly be those who lock off and try to get 2-BR's with a 1 BR, or either 100% upgrades of season or resort. That old system (which did offer that fairly often) is gone with the wind..... altho, come to think of it, I did trade 2 weeks recently and got upgrades of season on both.
> 
> ...



One of the reasons we purchased the three bedroom Grand Chateau vs the two bedroom was the fact the lock-off is, and trades as, a full one bedroom. 

We've been able to uptrade our studio lock-off of our three bedroom unit at Ocean Pointe for larger units but, I didn't want to count on that forever. Fortunately we tend to trade a higher demand (TDI wise) for lower demand weeks and have always been able to move up in size. If that ends, it's not the end of the world for us. We didn't plan on always being able to make those exchanges. I still believe we'll be able to use that lock-off at Ocean Pointe to get at least a one bedroom at Willow Ridge for the spring/fall/winter seasons. There's over supply and, Willow Ridge owners weren't offered an attractive enough points package to convert their weeks to points IMO (I could be proven wrong on this count, it's just an opinion). I think in my corner of Marriott's world I may be all right. 

If I were expecting to up size in a prime season, my expectations would be considerably lower when looking at the changes made by Marriott. I believe those changes were designed to eliminate such up sizing as much as possible as a manuver to get owners to purchase what they want/need rather than expecting to be able to buy cheap and trade high. 

I recently had a salesmen with a different company use that tactic with me. I told him we needed a one bedroom but I wasn't paying the price the developer was asking. He suggested I buy a studio unit for less money and trade up. He offered several examples of owners who had done just that. My point was it was a new resort with a lot of devloper inventory. Let that inventory sell out and see if those owners can still do that. I'm sure they'll be very dissapointed in a few more years when all that free developer inventory is gone and they're stuck with the smaller unit they own. 

Never fall into the trap of believing you'll always be able to trade up in size or season. Sure I'm disappointed that I might not be able to up size our studio lock off at Ocean Pointe but, I understood that was always a possiblity in the future. As it stands for us at this very moment, if those days are gone, then we'll use the full three bedroom unit from now on. 

This will create one other change in the system and availabilty. There may be a lot fewer studio units available as owners either keep those units or, as they accept like for like in size and start exchanging into those available studio units. 

The DC is going to cause a shift in expectations. Many of us who learned to play the up trade game will be dissapointed because it's not as easy as it once was, if we can do it at all. Fortunately, I saw this as a possiblity when we were considering our purchase at Grand Chateua. It's almost the entire reason we went 3 bedroom vs 2 bedroom. That 3rd bedroom lock's off as a full one bedroom unit. We figured if the world up uptrades in size ended, we'd still be able to get the mininum size unit we could live with in exchange by going 1 bedroom for 1 bedroom. We'll still take the up trades to 2 bedrooms if/when we can get them but, overall, because we understood we might not be able to up trade in size forever, we're not as disappointed as we could be.


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## dougp26364 (Apr 25, 2012)

Quilter said:


> Hello from Whole Foods in Ann Arbor MI, last stop before home  40 nights in Marriott beds.
> 
> I was responding to OP's dilemma that he was very,very, very disappointed not going to Waiohai in June.   The DC has created many options but some are not so apparent as others.



This is a VERY true statement. I'm still proving the DC to find where/when my best values can be located.


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## billymach4 (Apr 25, 2012)

1965 said:


> i just cancelled my search for a (2) bedroom at the marriot waiohai beach club for June 5,2012 to August 15,2012. I was using a (1) bedroom  Marriott Desert Springs #2 for trade. The highest demand week for that (1) bedroom Marriott Desret Springs. I tried for (8) months and failed. I had succeeded (3) other times in my lifetime
> 
> I currently am (23) days into a (2)  bedroom at the Marriott Waiohai Beach Cub anything between September 1,2012 to September 30,2012 or a (1) bedroom at the Marriott Maui Ocean club between September 1,2012 to September 30,2012.  I am using my Marriot Desert Springs (1) bedroom lock off for either of these trades. The highest trade demand week for that Marriott Desert Springs # 2: one bedroom. I have had no success.
> I have made this exact same trade  twice, in only (3) days, in the past
> ...



I am not familiar with HI properties. But.... My take on the DC and Marriott is that if Marriott can't serve me well via II, I have choices. There are other great resorts out there that trade well in II. 

Marriott loses my $$ if I can't get the trade I want. So far I have not been affected by any loss of inventory in II from the Marriott DC intro. Reason being is I travel off season, and own where I like to vacation!


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## rsackett (Apr 25, 2012)

billymach4 said:


> I am not familiar with HI properties. But.... My take on the DC and Marriott is that if Marriott can't serve me well via II, I have choices. There are other great resorts out there that trade well in II.
> 
> Marriott loses my $$ if I can't get the trade I want. So far I have not been affected by any loss of inventory in II from the Marriott DC intro. Reason being is I travel off season, and own where I like to vacation!



Remember, there are also choices out side of II!   

Ray


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## billymach4 (Apr 25, 2012)

rsackett said:


> Remember, there are also choices out side of II!
> 
> Ray



Yes indeed! I am well aware of that. Thanks for the reminder.


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## dioxide45 (Apr 25, 2012)

The problem is that the OP would get 2900 DC points from their DSVII week if converted to DC Points. To get a unit at Waiohai it would cost 4850 DC points (Island View) or 5875 (Ocean View). That is pretty steep when in the past a 1BR would have gotten that same unit.

Times have changed, it is possible that the OP could have gotten the exchange. While there seems to be inventory in DC, it is possible that Marriott could still do a late bulk bank in to II of those excess weeks. We have seen a pattern of later bulk deposits of Marriott weeks in to II.


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## pacheco18 (Apr 25, 2012)

I bought where I want to go.  Smartest thing I could have done (thanks to advice from TUG).  If I never get a trade I am happy.


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## heathpack (Apr 25, 2012)

pacheco18 said:


> I bought where I want to go.  Smartest thing I could have done (thanks to advice from TUG).  If I never get a trade I am happy.



I hear this all the time and think, What the heck???  Every year for the rest of your life you want to go to Palm Springs and Oahu?!  That's it?!  Completely blows my mind, never wanting to go anywhere else.  Congrats if that makes sense for you, but many people reasonably want variety, and those folks reasonably need to exchange, and to find value from exchanging.  Marriott holds less value for exchanging (for OP) than it did previously and that's a shame for him/her.

H


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## dioxide45 (Apr 25, 2012)

heathpack said:


> I hear this all the time and think, What the heck???  Every year for the rest of your life you want to go to Palm Springs and Oahu?!  That's it?!  Completely blows my mind, never wanting to go anywhere else.  Congrats if that makes sense for you, but many people reasonably want variety, and those folks reasonably need to exchange, and to find value from exchanging.  Marriott holds less value for exchanging (for OP) than it did previously and that's a shame for him/her.
> 
> H



If everyone bought where they wanted to go, we wouldn't have exchange companies. Exchange companies started because people didn't want to keep going back to the same timeshare year after year.


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## Beefnot (Apr 25, 2012)

dioxide45 said:


> If everyone bought where they wanted to go, we wouldn't have exchange companies. Exchange companies started because people didn't want to keep going back to the same timeshare year after year.



Amen, brother.  Exchange till I die..


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## dougp26364 (Apr 25, 2012)

heathpack said:


> I hear this all the time and think, What the heck???  Every year for the rest of your life you want to go to Palm Springs and Oahu?!  That's it?!  Completely blows my mind, never wanting to go anywhere else.  Congrats if that makes sense for you, but many people reasonably want variety, and those folks reasonably need to exchange, and to find value from exchanging.  Marriott holds less value for exchanging (for OP) than it did previously and that's a shame for him/her.
> 
> H



We do several exchanges but, in the end, if we can never get another exchange we're happy with the resorts we own at. 

We do own at three resorts which we do not exchange. Ocean Pointe with Marriott is one of the resorts we've returned to every year except for once since 2001. We also own a Branson EOY and a Breckenridge EOY (non-Marriott) weeks that likely will never be exchanged.

As to our Grand Chateau week, we're happy staying there and have utlized request first exchanges in the past. I like request first because it gives us the option of going somewhere new if it's available and, if it's not, we go to our home resort. 

We now own only one week that is strictly used for exchanges, and I'm looking into divesting myself of that particular week.


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## heathpack (Apr 25, 2012)

dougp26364 said:


> We do several exchanges but, in the end, if we can never get another exchange we're happy with the resorts we own at.
> 
> We do own at three resorts which we do not exchange. Ocean Pointe with Marriott is one of the resorts we've returned to every year except for one since 2001. We also own a Branson EOY week and a Breckenridge EOY week that likely will never be exchanged.
> 
> ...



Totally genuine when I say more power to you.  Going to the same place every year holds zero appeal to me- life's too short & the world's too big.  But if vacationing in the same 2-4 places every year works for you, great, buy where you want to stay.  I know people espouse this "mantra" as a form of TUG wisdom, I just think it does a disservice to the newbies.  Personally, I think a better mantra would be "Buy where you want to stay if you are someone who enjoys repeat travel to the same place(s), otherwise buy a good trader, learn how to trade it, and expect the trading paradigm to drift over time". 

Ha, ha, though, my mantra is not very catchy.  Maybe "buy where you want to stay, unless that does not work for you, in which case, don't"?

H


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## Passepartout (Apr 25, 2012)

The actual TUG mantra is to buy where you enjoy going 1/2 to 2/3 of the time. In case flights- or even gas- get expensive, in case of a job loss, you can still vacation in a place you enjoy. Some people want to just go to the same place again and again, and that's fine. And we have some favorites, too but one of the reasons my first 2 TSs are in mini groups. Low cost, well maintained and somewhat regional (mine are mostly in the West) resorts.

Jim


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## Beefnot (Apr 26, 2012)

heathpack said:


> Totally genuine when I say more power to you.  Going to the same place every year holds zero appeal to me- life's too short & the world's too big.  But if vacationing in the same 2-4 places every year works for you, great, buy where you want to stay.  I know people espouse this "mantra" as a form of TUG wisdom, I just think it does a disservice to the newbies.  Personally, I think a better mantra would be "Buy where you want to stay if you are someone who enjoys repeat travel to the same place(s), otherwise buy a good trader, learn how to trade it, and expect the trading paradigm to drift over time".
> 
> Ha, ha, though, my mantra is not very catchy.  Maybe "buy where you want to stay, unless that does not work for you, in which case, don't"?
> 
> H



Buy what will give you the most cost effective, yet rewarding vacation experiences.  Or, buy what will make you affordably happy for the next 30 years.  For me, it ain't going to the same damn resort over and over again.  Variety is the spice of life.


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## MOXJO7282 (Apr 26, 2012)

heathpack said:


> I hear this all the time and think, What the heck???  Every year for the rest of your life you want to go to Palm Springs and Oahu?!  That's it?!  Completely blows my mind, never wanting to go anywhere else.  Congrats if that makes sense for you, but many people reasonably want variety, and those folks reasonably need to exchange, and to find value from exchanging.  Marriott holds less value for exchanging (for OP) than it did previously and that's a shame for him/her.
> 
> H



When we first got into TSs I remember we had all these plans to go to a different palce every year. We wrote it out for ten years and it had Maui 3 times, but other resorts every other year.

Well after going to Maui for the first time in 2002 we were hooked. Then in 2005 we exchanged into the Grande Ocean and again it hooked us. Otherwise we've been to the Marriotts in Kauai, Myrtle Beach, Aruba, So Cal and Fla. 

While all of these are super nice, Maui and The Grande Ocean have just captured us, so until we find another we could be happy going back and forth to those two locations.


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## heathpack (Apr 26, 2012)

MOXJO7282 said:


> When we first got into TSs I remember we had all these plans to go to a different palce every year. We wrote it out for ten years and it had Maui 3 times, but other resorts every other year.
> 
> Well after going to Maui for the first time in 2002 we were hooked. Then in 2005 we exchanged into the Grande Ocean and again it hooked us. Otherwise we've been to the Marriotts in Kauai, Myrtle Beach, Aruba, So Cal and Fla.
> 
> While all of these are super nice, Maui and The Grande Ocean have just captured us, so until we find another we could be happy going back and forth to those two locations.



Well, I will admit if I were wealthy and had tons of time & money, there is a very good chance I'd visit French Polynesia repeatedly.

 

H


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## puckmanfl (Apr 26, 2012)

good morning!!!!

Blew up all of the TUG dogma... Bought developer, have never stayed in my home unit occupancy (have stayed in my home resort on exchange)!!!!

Loving every minute of it....

Sue...Sorry about the B's

Off to Frenchmans Cove in 5 weeks.... 
To infinity and Beyond....

Maybe I'm the mole!!!!


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## jme (Apr 26, 2012)

*tired of whining.*

look out....lots of moles to be coming clean soon.  should be enlightening.


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## dougp26364 (Apr 26, 2012)

heathpack said:


> Totally genuine when I say more power to you.  Going to the same place every year holds zero appeal to me- life's too short & the world's too big.  But if vacationing in the same 2-4 places every year works for you, great, buy where you want to stay.  I know people espouse this "mantra" as a form of TUG wisdom, I just think it does a disservice to the newbies.  Personally, I think a better mantra would be "Buy where you want to stay if you are someone who enjoys repeat travel to the same place(s), otherwise buy a good trader, learn how to trade it, and expect the trading paradigm to drift over time".
> 
> Ha, ha, though, my mantra is not very catchy.  Maybe "buy where you want to stay, unless that does not work for you, in which case, don't"?
> 
> H




Ahh, that's what you're missing about us. We take 6 weeks of 7 night vacations each year plus 3 or 4 weekend trips. 

We go to Ocean Pointe one week out of every year. We go to Branson one week EOY and mult. weekend trips (within driving distance). We go to Breckenridge one week EOY and long weekend trips at least once each year. Past that, we vary our destinations with exchanges.

Right now I'm enjoying the internal systems we own in. With HGVC and DRI we just reserve what we want (assuming availability). With Marriott we're still working it out as to what works best for us, reserving using DC points or exchanging using weeks. 

We own where we're happy going *if all else fails and we own three resorts we don't exchange, one every year and two every other year. But that still leaves us a LOT of variation with internal reservations or exchanges.

if you ever want an idea of the variation, hit the link at the bottom of one of my posts to see our photo albums of the different timeshares and locations we've visited.*


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## jme (Apr 26, 2012)

Tired of the sniveling and whining. Not everybody by any means, but enough to be slightly aggravating. Like a gnat. And not all in this one thread, but overall, in general. I even learned tonight that we have a Marriott Mole on TUG.... more conflict. (FYI, might as well confess, it's me----I am the big Marriott apologist, as shown by some of my recent posts. But I paid $100,000 for that privilege, as I bought developer initially. I'm a believer inasmuch as the overall product is what I saw, what I purchased, and what I got, period. I'm happy, so it must be me. After all, my punctuation is always precise. Read that thread for explanation.) 

The past year on TUG has been frenetic and full of hysteria. Started with the communists taking over Marriott with the DC program, and now most everybody is OK with it and most legacy owners have enrolled, just to be safe in case the aliens take over. Yes, trading may be diminished. Affected, yes, but the final report is not in. I can live with that. 

PER THIS THREAD:
And as for whether one prefers to trade or stay in one place, what's the big deal? People buy for different reasons. We all live in different houses, don't we? I don't ride by your house and throw eggs. The two factions will never totally agree, and they shouldn't. Why chastise someone for a choice they made? 

STAY vs TRADE, I don't care, but traders stop whining just because your Park Hopper Pass has changed a bit. Did you honestly not consider that in the beginning? What exactly did you purchase? Expectations can either be realistic or not. 

I think the only big disappointments will be for those who were used to throwing in 2 quarters, expecting to get a dollar in change. I think that game is pretty much over. Chill. Enjoy what you have and let others be stupid and simply content to occupy. I'm predominantly a stay-at-homer.....we love our home resorts. Our ignorance(?) is bliss. Look at us....we have a blank stare at all times, haven't you noticed? 

Why are the "born traders" mad? The only guarantee in the contract was one week of occupancy. Did you read it? I did. We mostly "occupy" now, but we have enough weeks that we can easily trade if we want, and we've already seen the USA and Europe. (Don't get me wrong, we've traded a lot in the past----Newport, Hawaii, Caribbean, Bahamas, Europe x 2, Williamsburg, Park City x 7, Orlando x 5, Florida coast x 4, and many more, and it's been wonderful. But since kids have been in college and Grad School with conflicting schedules, we haven't been able to coordinate the big family trips as easily, so we stay around the home resorts for now.) 

We also have close to 18,000 DC legacy points if we choose to use them. Because the kids will be out of grad sch sometime soon, I'm sure things could change again. We also have tons of Rewards points, so our options are many. We certainly don't feel locked in by any stretch, and we aren't denied anything. We can still do whatever we want, but right now we're stuck on stupid. 

I'm hoping that maybe this thread will serve a purpose after all....to show that in the end, two differing philosophies can coexist. I can only hope. But cease the whining. Just leave the opposition to his/her own devices. We don't really have any other peaceable alternative than to honor the concept of "choices". You hate green, I like blue, she loves red. OK, cool. Move on.


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## jlr10 (Apr 26, 2012)

We own there but couldn't go last year.  We deposited and immediately put in a trade request for this year.  We should be high on the pecking order - Multi week owner trying to trade back into our home resort with a Waiohai OV unit. We got the trade but it took 8 months.

Waiohai is not an easy trade in the summer. We were there a few weeks ago and of the people I talked to while I was there every single one was an owner at Waiohai.  They claim to have the one of the highest owner occupancy rates, and I believe it.  This is a resort that where weeks were reported to be almost sold out prior to the DC program. That combined with trying to get a bigger unit for a smaller unit make the trade really hard in high season.  Add in the DC which most likely would pull out any Waiohai deposits and offer a unit of 'equal value' to II and you decrease the odds even more. Not impossible but not an easy trade anymore.

That is why we bought a resale week here.  When we go to Kauai we like to stay at Waiohai and Hanalei Bay Resort. As owners at both we get the best of both ends of the islands on every trip.  And yes, we like to go there again and again on odd, and even some even, years.  We love the people and the chance to relax. When we go there we don't feel like we are going on vacation, we feel like we are visiting our second home.  But if we don't we have pretty good traders we could use.  Then we can also deposit our DSV week and get a trade somewhere else. That is the joy of timesharing is being able to use your unit, or points, as they work best for you.


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## bogey21 (Apr 26, 2012)

I had another twist on this.  After divesting all my Floating Marriott Weeks (I kept my Fixed Monarch Week) I was left with all Fixed Weeks in places I liked to go.  Most of the time I just used them.  Every now and then I would Exchange one using RCI Weeks.  Monarch would trade with both RCI and II.  One of my motivations in dumping my Floating Weeks was to get away from (for me) the hassle of scheduling acceptable usage of my Floating Weeks.

George


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## IngridN (Apr 26, 2012)

We were also in the "can't imagine going to the same place each year" camp and bought our first developer timeshares pre-construction at Shadow Ridge 10 years or so ago. Have been there once. We went to Aruba on the incentive points and fell in love with it and bought at the Surf Club on our third annual trek to Aruba. Have been back yearly except for one year. Don't ask why we bought New Year's at Grand Chateau  .

If exchanges ever dry up, Shadow Ridge and Grand Chateau will be dumped or used for their DC point values. Interestingly, we did not learn about the uptrading until discovering Tug and in the first couple of years exchanged like for like. Now we only stay in 2 bedrooms with our studio & 1 bedroom deposits. That said, we see that as a great perk of the system and Marriott's strong trade value and if those types of exchanges disappear and we have to go back to staying in studios, we will be OK with that. 

Ingrid


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## m61376 (Apr 26, 2012)

Interesting thread; clearly there are lots of differing perspectives. We've traveled here and there over the years, many times on cruises, because let alone stay in one place year after year, I didn't usually want to spend more than a few days at most places, let alone a week. Aruba was the one spot that my husband, half in jest, mused about buying a vacation home, and buying a couple of weeks at the SC kinda satisfies that desire (although he wants another ;-)). It is the only place I'm happy to go and just veg out, rather than being on the go, and really the only place other than I guess London that we've enjoyed going to repeatedly.

So for us, using our weeks most of the time makes sense, and although we've thoroughly enjoyed the trades we've made, Aruba is, well, just comfortable.


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## IngridN (Apr 26, 2012)

m61376 said:


> Interesting thread; clearly there are lots of differing perspectives. We've traveled here and there over the years, many times on cruises, because let alone stay in one place year after year, I didn't usually want to spend more than a few days at most places, let alone a week. Aruba was the one spot that my husband, half in jest, mused about buying a vacation home, and buying a couple of weeks at the SC kinda satisfies that desire (although he wants another ;-)). It is the only place I'm happy to go and just veg out, rather than being on the go, and really the only place other than I guess London that we've enjoyed going to repeatedly.
> 
> So for us, using our weeks most of the time makes sense, and although we've thoroughly enjoyed the trades we've made, Aruba is, well, just comfortable.



M, you can't beat the current prices, so go for that other week :whoopie: . I saw an OF for real cheap and was tempted, but DH brought me back to reality. Until recently, we envisioned going to Aruba 2x/yr for 2 weeks each when we retired. However, we realized that we loved Aruba because it allowed us to decompress from our stressful jobs. Obviously, that will not be the case in retirement, so we really need to wait and see what our vacationing habits will morph into. This upcoming Aruba trip will be interesting for me...I'm retired now and don't need the relaxation/vegging that DH is looking forward to. I'll be on 'Aruba time' before we get there :hysterical: .

Ingrid


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## pacheco18 (Apr 26, 2012)

heathpack said:


> I hear this all the time and think, What the heck???  Every year for the rest of your life you want to go to Palm Springs and Oahu?!  That's it?!  Completely blows my mind, never wanting to go anywhere else.  Congrats if that makes sense for you, but many people reasonably want variety, and those folks reasonably need to exchange, and to find value from exchanging.  Marriott holds less value for exchanging (for OP) than it did previously and that's a shame for him/her.
> 
> H


That's not it by a long shot!
I also take 3 or 4 trips to Europe/or cruises as well every year.  Just came back from a fabulous safari in Africa and I am leaving for a mediterranean cruise in 3 weeks.  I will be in Paris, Prague and London in August -- all for free on MR points.  Timesharing is a minor part of my vacationing.  Very minor.
I take a week in Palm Desert every March -- it's a 5 hour drive or we fly (we have our own plane).  We love it there.  I have many friends there. I trade the other week for MR points.  
If I don' t take the week in Oahu I trade for MR points every other year.

I cannot begin to tell what MR points have done for me -- free hotels, free business class air adding to my miles.

Not good to jump to conclusions.

Simple point -- if you bought where you wanted to go, the trading problem would not be your problem.  It is not mine.


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## tjkahn (Apr 26, 2012)

Add this to the list of threads on TUG that, as a mere single week owner that's happy to get away from home two to three weeks a year, make me feel dirt poor.:rofl:


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## Cmore (Apr 26, 2012)

JME - I won't quote your post, but wanted to add that I agree with your thoughts on the matter.  

We have had our Marriott's for 10 -15 years, bought the first one from Marriott and added resales after we had found TUG.   I was active on TUG a number of years ago, and kind of went a way for a variety of reasons, much if it just being busy and raising kids.   Recently came back, to brush up on the DC.

I also wanted to thank many of the regulars as I have learned a lot over the years and it has helped to maximize the use of our investment.   

Personally, as someone who is still a ways away from retirement, I can share that our vacationing needs/wants have changed dramatically from when our kids were very young to having them finishing HS and off to college.  How and what I thought we would be doing 10+ years ago, compared to the reality today is surprising.   We still enjoy our weeks/DC points, but having purchased a vacation home this past year has once again changed our vacationing priorities going forward.   

Seems no matter how much you plan, life just seems to get in the way and change things.  In our case the added flexibilty of the DC is great.  So while some are concerned about how it affects their trading, for other people having the program evolve is a good thing.   There just isn't a one size fits all model that works for a ownership base as large and diverse as Marriott's.

I wish you all successful trades and happy vacations.


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## MikeM132 (Apr 29, 2012)

I deposited my 1br Maui week (mid-June week) last year and it took about 3 months to get Waihoia (sp?). I think they are all 2br. Maui is a very strong trader and I had a pretty decent week. My week in Kauai is late Sept to Oct 7. I had to use some dest. points to stay at KBC a couple days, then move because my week in KoOlina did not quite line up with my exchange. No problem getting KBC (or KoOlina) with points, but only 1br were available. Maybe people are coming back to Hawaii this year.


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## dioxide45 (Apr 30, 2012)

This thread has given us the opportunity to adjust our expectations for Hawaii in 2013. I was considering putting up a 1BR week in an attempt to get a late Oct/early Nov week in Kauai. It is very off season when were are going and we were putting up a Memorial Week 2013 Grande Vista. I have however opted to use the entire two bedroom and not lock off. We will put in a request first using our full 2BR unit.

The thing is, our week on reservation is a May 2013 week, we are looking to go in fall 2013. So we will be using the Special Internal Marriott to Marriott exchange method in II. If our exchange doesn't come through by the first few weeks of November 2012, would I be better to call and cancel our May reservation and rebook for Thanksgiving 2013 the put in a new request? It would extend the life of our reserved week considerably considerably but I think the recently adjusted TDIs for Orlando have May weeks far higher in TDI than Thanksgiving.


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## GregT (Apr 30, 2012)

dioxide45 said:


> This thread has given us the opportunity to adjust our expectations for Hawaii in 2013. I was considering putting up a 1BR week in an attempt to get a late Oct/early Nov week in Kauai. It is very off season when were are going and we were putting up a Memorial Week 2013 Grande Vista. I have however opted to use the entire two bedroom and not lock off. We will put in a request first using our full 2BR unit.
> 
> The thing is, our week on reservation is a May 2013 week, we are looking to go in fall 2013. So we will be using the Special Internal Marriott to Marriott exchange method in II. If our exchange doesn't come through by the first few weeks of November 2012, would I be better to call and cancel our May reservation and rebook for Thanksgiving 2013 the put in a new request? It would extend the life of our reserved week considerably considerably but I think the recently adjusted TDIs for Orlando have May weeks far higher in TDI than Thanksgiving.



Dioxide,

What's your target for Kauai?  Are you looking for Waiohai, Kauai Lagoons or Kauai Beach Club?

I'm not sure what the right advice is -- but I think if you were to deposit your May week early for maximum trading power/earliest reservation date that you are highly likely to get the week that you want.    I'd go with the higher TDI values/earlier trade request dates and would think you will be good?

Let me know how it goes -- and good luck!

Greg


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## dioxide45 (May 1, 2012)

GregT said:


> Dioxide,
> 
> What's your target for Kauai?  Are you looking for Waiohai, Kauai Lagoons or Kauai Beach Club?
> 
> ...



Greg, We would really be willing to take any of the resorts in Kauai, but would probably prefer Waiohai, Beach Club and then Lagoons in that order. We will probably be cooking in the unit more in Kauai than we normally would in a timeshare, so the full kitchen at Waiohai or the Lagoons would be great. I think the Lagoons would be highest on my list, it may not be as high on the list considering the others in our traveling party due to the beach access.

I have already reserved the highest May TDI 2013 week that I can using our Grande Vista unit. I could deposit now but am a little nervous about giving it to II before they come through with the exchange. Don't think this is a valid concern to have though, perhaps just an emotional response. The issue is that we won't really even start searching for an exchange until mid September.


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## Steve A (May 1, 2012)

I think it is all a matter of expectations. If I had paid huge amounts of money for a platinum week at a desirable resort I too would be very unhappy when it turned out to be a disappointing trader after the DC was initiated.

OTOH, we started with  Bronze and Silver weeks at the Barony (weeks which now have little cash value) in 1991 (got the trip around the world as it was referred to in the early 90s) so trading expectations weren't too high. Because my wife and I always have had jobs that allow for flexibility in taking time off, we have been able to plan vacations a year in advance. Our expectations for these as weeks was never high. Nevertheless, they have been excellent traders especially the Silver. It has taken us to Aruba, Palm Desert, Maui and Kauai. We don't push for the platinum time. We are happy to travel in off-season. 

So, given our expectations, trading has worked out just fine and continues to do so. In 2012 the Silver will give us a week in Aruba next month to go along with the Gold week we own. The Bronze will take us to the Surfwatch in October. The 2013 Bronze will give us the Barony in April next year. 

We have also joined the DC and used Grand Chateau and 800 points to get 10 days in Kauai in January 2013. Admittedly that's off-season, but it will be a heck of lot warmer than Wisconsin. So, we are still happy with timesharing.


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