# Wyndham Right of First Refusal - is it worth anything??



## jaygould (Apr 6, 2011)

I currently have 638,000 Wyndham points that I bought at retail ($75,000 down the tube) before I became a member of TUG. I am currently being offered a proposal to roll these points into a new contract that gets me to platinum. I don't really need any more points, but the attractive (maybe) part of this deal is that the new contract has a right of first refusal included. The salesman claims that with right of first refusal, the capital costs are protected, which they are not under our current contracts. If this is true, he claims that if our heirs (we are in our late 70's) decide they do not want to pay the maintenance costs when we die, they can exercise the right of first refusal and Wyndham (who keeps raising the retail price every year) will buy back the contract at the price we paid because they can then sell it for even more. How likely is it that this is even partly true???


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## Lardan (Apr 6, 2011)

I presume this will be in writing.


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## bnoble (Apr 6, 2011)

> the attractive (maybe) part of this deal is that the new contract has a right of first refusal included. The salesman claims that with right of first refusal, the capital costs are protected, which they are not under our current contracts.


ROFR only means that _after_ you find a willing buyer, Wyndham has the right to purchase under exactly the same terms, without having to out-bid that buyer.  But, you have to find a willing buyer first.  And, given the flood of points on the market, why would a willing buyer pay you more than they would anyone else?  Answer: they wouldn't.

In a world where *all* resales are governed under ROFR, *and* the rights-holder is willing to spend potentially unbounded amounts of capital exercising the option, it is possible that no resale buyer can purchase under a certain floor.  But, even systems that *do* have all resales covered *do not* have developers who are unlimited in what they can repurchase.


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## Lardan (Apr 6, 2011)

bnoble said:


> ROFR only means that _after_ you find a willing buyer, Wyndham has the right to purchase under exactly the same terms, without having to out-bid that buyer.  But, you have to find a willing buyer first.  And, given the flood of points on the market, why would a willing buyer pay you more than they would anyone else?  Answer: they wouldn't.
> 
> In a world where *all* resales are governed under ROFR, *and* the rights-holder is willing to spend potentially unbounded amounts of capital exercising the option, it is possible that no resale buyer can purchase under a certain floor.  But, even systems that *do* have all resales covered *do not* have developers who are unlimited in what they can repurchase.



What your saying is what I thought was meant, but the ROFR was either explained very wrong or misunderstood by the potential buyer.  The sales people wouldn't explain anything wrong would they?


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## siesta (Apr 6, 2011)

don't buy anymore points from the developer.  you already got bamboozled once, the right of first refusal doesn't mean a thing if they wave it.  

If you *want* more points, by them resale and enjoy the vip benefits you already have as that is an account feature and will work with resale points as well.  But don't pay more for another benefit that can be changed at anytime.  Use the current system the best as possible to milk as much value out of what you own as you can.  If MF stay reasonable, you can give away your points and it's benefits to your kids and they will enjoy the vacations as well as the VIP benefits you spent too much money for.  good luck, and welcome to tug.


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## timeos2 (Apr 6, 2011)

It is worth exactly zero.  It doesn't mean a thing except they can try to spin it to sound good at the sales pitch. 

The only possible value would be, in writing, a guarantee of buy back of the points at XX value. They won't give that to you as the have no intention of buying anything back - ROFR or not. 

Don't buy more from them - they already took you once & are looking to do it again. Don't fall for it.


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## AwayWeGo (Apr 6, 2011)

*I've Said It Before & I'll Say It Again -- ROFR = ROFL.*




jimfisk said:


> The salesman claims that with right of first refusal, the capital costs are protected, which they are not under our current contracts. If this is true, he claims that if our heirs (we are in our late 70's) decide they do not want to pay the maintenance costs when we die, they can exercise the right of first refusal and Wyndham (who keeps raising the retail price every year) will buy back the contract at the price we paid because they can then sell it for even more. How likely is it that this is even partly true?


I would not believe that even if they put it in writing on parchment & signed it in blood & notarized it in gold. 

ROFR does nothing more than allow the timeshare company to buy the timeshare out from under a buyer who is ready to buy your timeshare at a mutually agreeable price.  Typically, timeshare companies don't do that unless the price is rock-bottom.  (And when timeshare companies do exercise ROFR, all you get is the same rock-bottom price you were about to get anyway from the willing buyer.)  Now that the bottom has dropped out of the market, timeshare companies have pretty much given up exercising ROFR. 

Timeshare sellers typically claim that the purpose of ROFR is to keep resale prices from going "too low."  That's industrial-strength bunk on stilts.  ROFR doesn't do that -- _can't_ do that.  All ROFR does is give timeshare companies the right to snap up the _el cheapo_ bargains, out from under willing resale buyers.  Timeshares sold that way are _still el cheapo_.  The exercise of ROFR doesn't add 1 thin dime to the price the timeshare company pays for your timeshare. 

ROFR *=* ROFL. 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


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## Free2Roam (Apr 6, 2011)

jimfisk said:


> ....I don't really need any more points.... If this is true, he claims that if our heirs (we are in our late 70's) decide they do not want to pay the maintenance costs when we die, they can exercise the right of first refusal and Wyndham (who keeps raising the retail price every year) will buy back the contract at the price we paid because they can then sell it for even more. How likely is it that this is even partly true???



Even if this "new policy" is legit (highly unlikely)... my understanding is that your heirs are not obligated to pay maintenance costs when you die... so that shouldn't be a deciding factor.  If you don't need anymore points, just enjoy what you have and don't worry too much about the heirs being stuck with it.


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## kaio (Apr 6, 2011)

+1 dont buy anything further from developer.  

Have never dealt with ROFR with Wyndham,.... but I can assure you even if you sold your 6xxx,xxx points Wyndham contract for $100, wyndham would waive their right to buy it back...   It is funny to look at the trends of management companies who utilize their right of first refusal, more often than not, many of them waive their right.  I have seen Marriott waive their right for a 2 BR Platinum Marriott Newport Coast ownership that sold for $2000 which is rather cheap, even on the resale market today... but then again, Ive seen them excercize their right to buy it back for $9500... so it is a funny thing... I would like to hear if anyone has experience with wyndham exercising their ROFR...


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## siesta (Apr 7, 2011)

I can see them utilizing ROFR on presidential reserve ownerships if the price is right, that's about it.

Once you consider wyn's current success with the WAAM model, allowing them to sell units with no out of pocket cost, why would they want to *buy* back units with MF to resell them?


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## theo (Apr 7, 2011)

*Wyndham WAAM model...*



siesta said:


> .....consider wyn's current success with the WAAM model....



I have seen numerous references in assorted timeshare related places to the "Wyndham WAAM model". 

That said, I've seen little to nothing explaining exactly what that "WAAM" model is. Searching has, to date, yielded little that I would describe as being particularly informative or educational.  

Can anyone briefly (but factually and objectively) explain "the Wyndham WAAM model", or perhaps instead direct me to some specific site or location where I can learn real and substantive details? 

Thanks in advance.


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## learnalot (Apr 7, 2011)

theo said:


> I have seen numerous references in assorted timeshare related places to the "Wyndham WAAM model".
> 
> That said, I've seen little to nothing explaining exactly what that "WAAM" model is. Searching has, to date, yielded little that I would describe as being particularly informative or educational.
> 
> ...



Hi Theo,

I believe it stands for Wyndham Asset and Acquisition Management.  It is a model they started after the housing bubble burst and real estate prices were in the toilet.  Basically, they come in where someone else has already developed a property but has inventory they are unable to move and/or capital costs they are unable to cover.  So Wyndham comes in and brokers their unsold inventory, which generally makes it available as a new addition to the resort portfolio without a large capital outlay on their part.  So far they have officially announced Towers on the Grove in Myrtle Beach, Reunion in Orlando (Kissimmee, actually, I think) and Smuggs.


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## mrpickle (Apr 7, 2011)

*Sales Tactics*

I had the same offer to roll in my resale points under a ROFR! When the salesman explained it, it sounded like a great idea! When you really look at it you see that it is just the newest gimic to get ROFR on the points that do not have ROFR, and they get to sell another retail week to sign you up!

Ken


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## AwayWeGo (Apr 7, 2011)

*Credit Where Credit Is Due.*




mrpickle said:


> It is amazing what you can accomplish if you do not care who gets the credit. ~Harry S Truman


Shux, I thought Ronald Reagan said that. 

Who knew ? 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


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## theo (Apr 8, 2011)

*Ask about WAAM --- and WHAM, an answer...*



learnalot said:


> Hi Theo,
> 
> I believe it stands for Wyndham Asset and Acquisition Management.  It is a model they started after the housing bubble burst and real estate prices were in the toilet.  Basically, they come in where someone else has already developed a property but has inventory they are unable to move and/or capital costs they are unable to cover.  So Wyndham comes in and brokers their unsold inventory, which generally makes it available as a new addition to the resort portfolio without a large capital outlay on their part.  So far they have officially announced Towers on the Grove in Myrtle Beach, Reunion in Orlando (Kissimmee, actually, I think) and Smuggs.



Thank you. Much appreciated.


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