# Frustrating experience with TUG Classifieds, anyone else?



## flatiron (Nov 29, 2020)

For 5 days I have been trying to post my TUG classified rental ad, and every 24 hours when I ask why it is not live I'm given a new reason and something else I have to address to move the ad from "Hold" to "Posted".  Anyone else experiencing this?

As a new classified poster I read the entire TUG "Warnings and Terms" and clicked on the "I Agree" button. Nowhere are any of the following hold-ups addressed:

Day 1 - ad submitted
Day 2 - ad is still "pending" because I edited it, it goes to the back of the queue for another 24 hours (OK I didn't know, this should be made clear)
Day 3- ad is now on "hold" because the email address on the ad and on my account don't match (OK fine, I fixed them to match)
Day 4 - ad is still on "hold" because they need proof of reservation with my home resort (OK great idea to prevent fraud, I provide this)
Day 5 - ad is still on "hold" because I provided the resort reservation with confirmation # not the actual email with same from home resort (OK I provide this)

The frustrating part is nowhere is any of the above stated in the instructions for those creating a classified ad. Am I missing something? I'm happy to provide all requested and have, but TUG is letting me know piecemeal every 24-hours that they need something else. I'd like to see their requirements all in ONE PLACE on the day I first post, so I don't waste 5 days going back and forth.

Curious to hear the experience of others as I'm super frustrated with my first TUG classified attempt.
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TUG NEEDS TO UPDATE THIS:  https://tug2.net/timesharemarketplace/TimeshareMarketplaceInstructions.html


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## presley (Nov 29, 2020)

I've never had any issues posting ads in the marketplace. I suspect that they have had to deal with a lot of scammers who have done the same things as your ad and that is why they are being extra cautious. Unfortunately, offering free ads is very welcoming to scammers. It may be easier for you to advertise somewhere that charges for the ad like RedWeek.


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## flatiron (Nov 29, 2020)

presley said:


> I've never had any issues posting ads in the marketplace. I suspect that they have had to deal with a lot of scammers who have done the same things as your ad and that is why they are being extra cautious. Unfortunately, offering free ads is very welcoming to scammers. It may be easier for you to advertise somewhere that charges for the ad like RedWeek.



Thanks for your reply. As mentioned I'm happy to provide everything they asked for, just don't want to know in drips and drabs every 24 hours that they need something else. 

Question - when you posted your ads in classified's were you required to send any PROOF that you actually owned the week you were posting?


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## presley (Nov 29, 2020)

flatiron said:


> Question - when you posted your ads in classified's were you required to send any PROOF that you actually owned the week you were posting?


No, but I haven't posted any ads for at least 3 years. I think the scamming has likely increased a lot, especially now with all the travel restrictions.


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## Theiggy (Nov 29, 2020)

@flatiron

Yes. This has happened to me every time I have posted an ad. I have posted about it more than once in the forums. It’s quite frustrating. 

Like you I appreciate the effort to weed out scammers but directions should be clearly stated. In addition if documentation is required it should be requested in a timely manner rather than having the ad sit on hold until the poster emails and waits days for a response. 

The last ad I posted is still sitting there on hold because I gave up. I rented it through Facebook. 


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## flatiron (Nov 29, 2020)

Theiggy said:


> @flatiron
> 
> Yes. This has happened to me every time I have posted an ad. I have posted about it more than once in the forums. It’s quite frustrating.
> 
> ...



Wow that's really disappointing to learn about TUG. I did suggest they make their requirements very clear upfront, I hope they do. This place is a great resource, being tarnished by this total lack of competence on the classified end, in my view.

Never thought of Facebook as a rental source, thanks for the tip! When I look at Facebook Marketplace for timeshare rentals I get this:  https://www.facebook.com/groups/timeshare.rentals    Is that where you posted yours? It looks like it is free to post, and they will also add your listing to the MLS.


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## Theiggy (Nov 29, 2020)

@flatiron
I mostly post in groups related to my ownership. For example I post in the Marriott Frenchman’s Cove groups, or the MVC buy/sell/trade groups. Check each group’s rules. Some don’t allow posting of prices. I also post in my local moms groups sometimes. FB Marketplace reaches a wider audience but I prefer to stick with “timeshare” people or local people rather than a more public group. For that you can also go to Craigslist and advertise but I don’t always trust who is responding to my ad. RedWeek is great but they do charge a fee.

I know $15 membership isn’t much to pay here on TUG but I do pay it and recommend lots of ppl to join TUG through Facebook, yet I do not find using the classified ads here satisfying at all. 


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## dioxide45 (Nov 29, 2020)

@TUGBrian


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## TUGBrian (Nov 29, 2020)

Deliberate or not, your ad posting flagged a whole myriad of "this is a scam" metrics we have in the marketplace.

your name didnt match, your email didnt match, even the phone number was different., and when we asked to forward the original owner email confirmation, you sent a screenshot instead.  After we AGAIN asked for the original, you proceeded to inform us it was under a different email address.  Each of these back and forths took another day for you to respond and for us to respond yet again, so a bit disingenuous in your timeline thinking we are somehow deliberately holding up the posting of your ad for nearly a week, especially over the thanksgiving holiday.

quite frankly, id never have rented from you with all of the discrepancies, and do not find any fault with the lack of instant approval for your ad and the repeated back and forth between you and the customer service person simply trying to verify what is completely basic information.  to insinuate this is "normal" is also a bit ridiculous.  We have had hundreds of thousands of ads posted in the marketplace since its been in existance, and 99.9999999999% of them post without a single problem.

I certainly apologize that your experience was not as seamless as it usually is, but there is certainly a valid reason for it.

We cant verify every ad in the marketplace 100%, but there are certainly super obvious things that even a bare minimum of double checking will weed out, and we are perfectly fine with making that extra effort when such situations arise even if it causes a bit of an inconvenience to some owners.  Most are quite grateful at these added steps, clearly some are not.


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## flatiron (Nov 29, 2020)

TUGBrian said:


> Deliberate or not, your ad posting flagged a whole myriad of "this is a scam" metrics we have in the marketplace.
> 
> your name didnt match, your email didnt match, even the phone number was different., and when we asked to forward the original owner email confirmation, you sent a screenshot instead.  After we AGAIN asked for the original, you proceeded to inform us it was under a different email address.  Each of these back and forths took another day for you to respond and for us to respond yet again, so a bit disingenuous in your timeline thinking we are somehow deliberately holding up the posting of your ad for nearly a week, especially over the thanksgiving holiday.
> 
> ...



Sadly TUG gives absolutely no guidance on your requirements on how to proceed effectively. Please revisit this for future members who are new to classifieds here.
Specifically members need to know:

1. Classified ads must have the same email address on the listing AND on their TUG account AND on their resort confirmation.
2. Proof of reservation must be sent and this means NOT the actual certificate with confirmation number but the email from the resort FORWARDING the actual certificate with the confirmation number.
3. Every time you open the ad to look at it even if you don't edit anything it goes to the back of the queue again for 24 hours.

I appreciate the double checks to keep listings legitimate and I have happily given you everything you have asked for. The frustration is you are asking me for things piecemeal and not all at once, and TUG hasn't listed anywhere on the website site what your requirements are, including the 3 things above.

I assume you now have everything you need and look forward to my listing being moved to "active".


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## TUGBrian (Nov 30, 2020)

1. is something that less than a fraction of a % of all ads posted ever fail to do.  its so unique that its really only ever done by scammers and thus we made the rule to not allow it for rentals quite some time ago.  To date you are the one and only person to have any sort of issue with this rule.

2. is only required on ads that get flagged (less than 1% also)

3. only clicking the edit button puts the ad back into the queue, looking at it does not.  once you click the edit button the ad will go back into the approval queue as it would provide a huge loophole for modification of ads after they are posted/reviewed if someone could simply go in and change anything they wish without going back thru the review process.


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## flatiron (Nov 30, 2020)

Thank you for elaborating the rules that keep posts legitimate, I never had an issue with this. My frustration is your PROCESS informing me of each new thing you needed one-by-one over 5 days instead of all at once.  TUG is a wonderful resource, marred only by my experience here with this first classified post.


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## flatiron (Nov 30, 2020)

@TUGBrian I just PM'd you about why my post was moved from the RENTAL forum to here, when others like it were not. Thank you.


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## Theiggy (Nov 30, 2020)

TUGBrian said:


> 1. is something that less than a fraction of a % of all ads posted ever fail to do. its so unique that its really only ever done by scammers and thus we made the rule to not allow it for rentals quite some time ago. To date you are the one and only person to have any sort of issue with this rule.
> 
> 2. is only required on ads that get flagged (less than 1% also)
> 
> 3. only clicking the edit button puts the ad back into the queue, looking at it does not. once you click the edit button the ad will go back into the approval queue as it would provide a huge loophole for modification of ads after they are posted/reviewed if someone could simply go in and change anything they wish without going back thru the review process.



I did in fact have the exact issue stated in number 1. It’s easy to have happen bc you can join TUG with an email which is not the same email you use for timeshare ownerships. In addition what can allow for an easy mixup is that you can join tug with one email but it might not be the same as what you used to join the forums. Add Tapatalk in there and you can really get confused. 

This happened to me in October. @flatiron is correct- It might save posters and you some headaches to simply add those items to the instructions to avoid it happening. 

See screenshot:






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## flatiron (Nov 30, 2020)

Theiggy said:


> I did in fact have the exact issue stated in number 1. It’s easy to have happen bc you can join TUG with an email which is not the same email you use for timeshare ownerships. In addition what can allow for an easy mixup is that you can join tug with one email but it might not be the same as what you used to join the forums. Add Tapatalk in there and you can really get confused.
> 
> This happened to me in October. @flatiron is correct- It might save posters and you some headaches to simply add those items to the instructions to avoid it happening.
> 
> ...



@Theiggy   Thanks for corroborating that there are legitimate reasons why someone would use different emails. It's fine that TUG has these safeguards in place, just wish they'd be clear upfront about the process AND present all issues at once not piecemeal over many days.  @TUGBrian


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## djyamyam (Nov 30, 2020)

Theiggy said:


> I did in fact have the exact issue stated in number 1. It’s easy to have happen bc you can join TUG with an email which is not the same email you use for timeshare ownerships. In addition what can allow for an easy mixup is that you can join tug with one email but it might not be the same as what you used to join the forums. Add Tapatalk in there and you can really get confused.
> 
> This happened to me in October



I also use multiple emails for logging in, advertising my rentals and timeshare ownerships.  With all the various companies out there selling your email address info, I use multiple ones for minimizing spam.  So having to use the same email for the forum, advertising and sending the confirmation would be problematic for me as well.  it's also why I stopped using TUG to advertise


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## TUGBrian (Nov 30, 2020)

I again apologize that it is going to inconvenience a small % of owners who wish to post rentals using different emails, as the alternative is more scam rental ads.  We do not sell or share contact info, never have, never will.  nearly individual 300,000 ads posted in the marketplace, this impacts less than a fraction of 1% of them.

out of the hundreds of ads posted in the past week by dozens of different owners, this impacted only one and we we will continue to require the email match the reservation confirmation for rentals as we consider this extra level of bare minimum fact checking is worth it.


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## flatiron (Nov 30, 2020)

TUGBrian said:


> I again apologize that it is going to inconvenience a small % of owners who wish to post rentals using different emails, as the alternative is more scam rental ads.  We do not sell or share contact info, never have, never will.  nearly individual 300,000 ads posted in the marketplace, this impacts less than a fraction of 1% of them.
> 
> out of the hundreds of ads posted in the past week by dozens of different owners, this impacted only one and we we will continue to require the email match the reservation confirmation for rentals as we consider this extra level of bare minimum fact checking is worth it.



@TUGBrian  Three TUG members on this thread have given legitimate reasons why they may have different email addresses and not realize it affects the ability to post a classified. As a TUG member since 2005 and a Marriott owner since 1998 I applaud TUG's diligence in trying to trap scammers. 
I am simply asking *TUG to be clear about your requirements in ADVANCE and address issues all at ONCE.* That's all.

If you are not the person to facilitate this piece of constructive criticism from the posters here to help future posters who is?

This is what needs to be updated to state emails must match and other requirements you have:  https://tug2.net/timesharemarketplace/TimeshareMarketplaceInstructions.html


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## dioxide45 (Nov 30, 2020)

Why does it even ask for an address and instead just use the address on profile or be prefilled with the address on profile?


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## TUGBrian (Nov 30, 2020)

it does use the address on file by default, however its a field that can be modified and the restriction is not in place for resales...only rentals.

I realize that you are clearly upset at this, but there are reasons why it is done the way it is.  and unfortunately its far less inconvenient for folks to be scammed than it is for others to be required to use the same email address as their reservations on rental ads.


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## flatiron (Nov 30, 2020)

@TUGBrian  Let's close the discussion on this as you are not understanding the point several of us have made. 
Thank you for your time.

Who can I contact to facilitate a constructive comment on adding clarity to the TUG classified instructions?


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## DeniseM (Nov 30, 2020)

> @TUGBrian Let's close the discussion on this as you are not understanding the point several of us have made.
> Thank you for your time. Who can I contact to facilitate a constructive comment on adding clarity to the TUG classified instructions?



flatiron - Brian is the owner:  If you are not happy with TUG, I recommend that you "vote with your feet" pull your Ads, and post them somewhere else.

One option is  Redweek - you have to pay for a membership and each Ad, but they do a good job.

Another option is Craigslist - scammers are a problem there - but it's free.

Ebay is another option, but they do have fees, too.


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## flatiron (Nov 30, 2020)

So one person owns the whole process, thank you for explaining. That's why this is a circular conversation. It's pretty clear TUG is not open to the constructive comments made by 3 bonafide members in this post who were also frustrated by the process. We simply ask that you *clarify the instructions upfront*, that's it!  Keep on with the rest of the good work in weeding the scammers out. Happy travels to all : -)


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## davidvel (Nov 30, 2020)

flatiron said:


> So one person owns the whole process, thank you for explaining. That's why this is a circular conversation. It's pretty clear TUG is not open to the constructive comments made by 3 bonafide members in this post who were also frustrated by the process. We simply ask that you *clarify the instructions upfront*, that's it!  Keep on with the rest of the good work in weeding the scammers out. Happy travels to all : -)


I am not speaking for Brian, but yes, he is the whole enchilada, take it or leave it.  

That being said, I can see legitimate reasons for TUGBBS not posting all of its security checks (and balances) ahead of time.   The checks themselves are little traps for the scammer to fail. Giving scammers a heads up on the security checks (or the places they will show themselves) just helps scammers circumvent them.

As Brian notes, most (practically all) ad posters don't run afoul.  Scammers are sloppy and often dumb. They usually repeat the same red flags.  Likely when TUG follows up, they wallow away and don't persist.  The fact that you have persisted helps to validate you in a way.  So, you are just an unlucky (but tiny) poster that has to deal with it to help protect renters.


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## TUGBrian (Nov 30, 2020)

At the end of the day your ad got flagged, we sent you a follow up email requesting more information (the original reservation confirmation)...what you sent was not what was requested, thus requiring yet another follow up email,  and then you informed us that this was under a completely separate email address, thus raising yet another flag.

Intentional or not, there is absolutely zero fault in how the system worked as everything you did mirrored most of the rental scams out there and im glad it continues to work as intended.  There is nothing in the instructions that needs to be changed as unless your ad is flagged, nothing else is required of you.

I have apologized repeatedly, but this is still apparently not acceptable to you, along with explaining the situation and why it doesnt impact 99.99999999999999999999999999999999999% of the ads in the marketplace, despite yours being one of them.  Im not sure apologizing again is going to accomplish anything else.


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## flatiron (Nov 30, 2020)

davidvel said:


> I am not speaking for Brian, but yes, he is the whole enchilada, take it or leave it.
> 
> That being said, I can see legitimate reasons for TUGBBS not posting all of its security checks (and balances) ahead of time.   The checks themselves are little traps for the scammer to fail. Giving scammers a heads up on the security checks (or the places they will show themselves) just helps scammers circumvent them.
> 
> As Brian notes, most (practically all) ad posters don't run afoul.  Scammers are sloppy and often dumb. They usually repeat the same red flags.  Likely when TUG follows up, they wallow away and don't persist.  The fact that you have persisted helps to validate you in a way.  So, you are just an unlucky (but tiny) poster that has to deal with it to help protect renters.



This is a thoughtful response, and helpful. Thanks


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