# Canadian travel to the US or other countries C-19 What’s up?



## Tank

Looked but didn’t see what’s going on crossing the borders

Dave


----------



## moonstone

Tank said:


> Looked but didn’t see what’s going on crossing the borders
> 
> Dave


I just read that Prime Minister Trudeau is considering a border closing. He is making a speech at noon from his self isolation so maybe he will announce something about it then.

I am currently wintering in Belize and flying home via Mexico in just over 2 weeks. I sure hope we don't have trouble getting home, I'm anxious to see my family. 


-Diane


----------



## MULTIZ321

Coronavirus disease (COVID-19) - Canada.ca
					

Links to COVID-19 (coronavirus) information for Canadians including current situation, statistics, financial support, your health, travel, immigration, safety and awareness resources.




					www.canada.ca
				



.


Richard


----------



## MULTIZ321

PM says Canada exploring whether to close border with U.S.










						PM says Canada exploring whether to close border with U.S.
					

OTTAWA — Prime Minister Justin Trudeau says Canada is exploring whether to close the Canada-U.S. border to slow the spread of COVID-19.Trudeau made the comments in a radio interview with CBC …




					ottawasun.com
				



.


Richard


----------



## Ski-Dad

At least three provincial governments have issued directive for public servants to self quarantine for a period of fourteen (14) days following international travel prior to returning to active duty.   This includes the US.

In Nova Scotia this is a directive of the Chief Health Officer ("CHO") under the _Health Protection Act_.   They have issued the same as a recommendation for the private sector.

This is interesting given Nova Scotia does not have a confirmed case of Covid19 yet.  The CHO indicated it is unavoidable and the purpose of these initiatives is to 'flatten the curve".   If they can slow the rate of infection, this will allow health institutions to treat those who are very sick without overwhelming the system.


----------



## CanuckTravlr

The border is not closed yet, but they have not ruled it out.  Actions to control the spread of Covid-19 are changing rapidly here.  The federal Minister of Health is now suggesting Canadians not travel outside the country at all, including to the USA.  This may become more than a suggestion.  Last year Canadian travellers to the USA spent almost $30 billion and US travellers to Canada spent almost $8 billion.

It would be a major and unprecedented action, since typically over 400,000 people per day cross the US/Canada border in both directions.  We are each other's largest trading partner, with almost 20% of US exports going to Canada and almost 80% of Canadian exports going to the USA.  So a sealed border would have a huge impact on the economies of both countries.  Although no one seems to be talking about impeding the flow of goods and cargo, just potentially people.  Almost half of our most recent Covid-19 cases have originated in people returning from the USA.

In the last two days in Ontario, as well as many other parts of Canada, we have gone from fairly "normal" to almost all large gatherings being shut down, at least temporarily.  All large sporting venues are shut down.  Most museums and many tourist attractions in Ottawa and Toronto (such as Casa Loma and the CN Tower) are now closed.  The federal Finance Minister has announced a further cut in the central bank rate and the funding of a major support programme for small and medium enterprises affected by shut-downs and other impacts from fighting Covid-19.

Part of the reason given during the question period by the federal Minister of Health, is that there has been unilateral action without consultation by some "other" countries (read between the lines) and a lack of action and transparency about what is being done in "some" other countries to actively test for and stem the spread of the Covid-19 coronavirus. A not so subtle message, but can't possibly imagine to whom she might be referring.


----------



## Maple_Leaf

"Avoid non-essential travel outside Canada until further notice."








						Travel Advice and Advisories
					

Travel Advice and Advisories from the Government of Canada.




					travel.gc.ca
				



The message is pretty clear to me.


----------



## MULTIZ321

Canada issues COVID-19 advisories about travel, including self-isolation, air travel regulation changes, and more.










						Canada issues COVID-19 advisories about travel, including self-isolation, air travel regulation changes, and more
					

The federal government explained what challenges travellers could face if they do travel abroad and what measures border security is taking.




					www.straight.com
				



.


Richard


----------



## MULTIZ321

Ontario limits who can be tested for COVID-19 due to demand for nasal swabs.










						Ontario limits who can be tested for COVID-19 due to demand for nasal swabs
					

As global demand for COVID-19 testing kits surges, Ontario has tightened its criteria for who is eligible for the tests.




					www.ctvnews.ca
				



.


Richard


----------



## moonstone

Canadian government urging Canadians who are aboad to come home while they still can.  https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/coronavirus-covid19-march-14-canada-world-1.5497761

We aren't scheduled to fly home from Belize  until the 29th. I can think of worse places to be stuck, but I'm very worried about the availability and quality of health care here should we need it. DH & I are reasonably healthy mid 60 year olds but you never know what can happen. 

-Diane


----------



## MULTIZ321

Canadians abroad urged to return home while 'commercial options still available'










						Canadians abroad urged to return home while ‘commercial options still available’  | Globalnews.ca
					

The advice marks an escalation for the government, who previously urged Canadians to cancel or postpone non-essential trips.




					globalnews.ca
				





Richard


----------



## jabberwocky

I'm wondering if there shouldn't be a distinction between US/Canada travel and places overseas which are only accessible via air.

Trying to decide whether to keep our trip to MCO next Saturday a go.  So far am leaning towards going.


----------



## MULTIZ321

Canadians Frustrated After Airlines Update Cancellation Policy Amid Coronavirus.










						Confusion, Hours-Long Waits For Canadians Trying To Cancel Flights
					

Customer service lines for Air Canada, WestJet and Air Transat are jammed.




					m.huffingtonpost.ca
				



.


Richard


----------



## CanuckTravlr

MULTIZ321 said:


> Canadians Frustrated After Airlines Update Cancellation Policy Amid Coronavirus.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Confusion, Hours-Long Waits For Canadians Trying To Cancel Flights
> 
> 
> Customer service lines for Air Canada, WestJet and Air Transat are jammed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> m.huffingtonpost.ca
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> Richard



The link is working now, but initially it was broken and they said they were working on it.  Maybe "frustrated" Canadians overwhelmed it, too, seeking information!!  

Duh, I can't imagine why the lines are overwhelmed.  Maybe it will help teach some people to quell their constant need for instant gratification, or not do everything at the very last minute, or stop using third-party providers because they think they are "cheaper".  

Of course they are having trouble getting through!  The call lines and websites have said as much and asked people to be patient and to help by only calling if your flight is within the next 72 hours.  Most changes can be made online and change fees will be waived.  No need to sit on the phone line for hours.  They are trying to deal with the requests in a priority sequence.  People can be so self-absorbed and impatient at times.


----------



## T-Dot-Traveller

CanuckTravlr said:


> .....in a priority sequence.
> People can be so self-absorbed and impatient at times.



yup- 

the grocery store may be out of milk / the world isn’t running out of cows.

as a executive at a (toilet ) paper mfg stated -( quoting from memory) - 

“ YOU ARE NOT USING MORE TOILET PAPER ; YOU’RE JUST FILLING YOUR CLOSET WITH IT


----------



## Maple_Leaf

Quebec Premier is asking seniors over age 70 to stay home until further notice.








						Quebec child tests positive for coronavirus as premier urges seniors over 70 to stay home  | Globalnews.ca
					

Quebec Premier François Legault is asking residents over the age of 70 to stay home until further notice.




					globalnews.ca


----------



## Foggy1

Here's another source that has a lot of information.  Search "Canadian Border Security"


----------



## MULTIZ321

Canadian Border Services Agency.






						Canada Border Services Agency (CBSA)
					






					www.cbsa-asfc.gc.ca
				



.


Richard


----------



## MULTIZ321

2,299 minutes on hold: Canadian airlines are inundated with COVID-19 flight cancellations.










						2,299 minutes on hold: Canadian airlines are inundated with COVID-19 flight cancellations
					

B.C. residents say they've spent hours on hold, or haven't been able to get through on phone lines at all, as people rush to cancel flights in the wake of new travel warnings from the Canadian government.



					bc.ctvnews.ca
				



.


Richard


----------



## jabberwocky

MULTIZ321 said:


> 2,299 minutes on hold: Canadian airlines are inundated with COVID-19 flight cancellations.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2,299 minutes on hold: Canadian airlines are inundated with COVID-19 flight cancellations
> 
> 
> B.C. residents say they've spent hours on hold, or haven't been able to get through on phone lines at all, as people rush to cancel flights in the wake of new travel warnings from the Canadian government.
> 
> 
> 
> bc.ctvnews.ca
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> 
> Richard



It's too bad there wasn't a technology that would let you do this through your computer...


----------



## bizaro86

jabberwocky said:


> It's too bad there wasn't a technology that would let you do this through your computer...



I think they are showing those wait times to try and get people to do everything possible online. We called westjet to cancel tickets today. It wasn't possible to do so for us because we had used companion fare vouchers and westjet dollars for partial payment.

It took probably 30 tries to get through, but once we were on hold we only waited 1.5 hours. The website was showing a 37 hour wait at the time.


----------



## MULTIZ321

Canadians abroad amid COVID-19 pandemic face an uncertain scramble to get home or 'hunker 
down' 










						Canadians abroad amid COVID-19 pandemic face an uncertain scramble to get home — or ‘hunker down’
					

Canadians abroad face hard choices amid uncertainty about local laws, flights and the COVID-19 pandemic’s spread.




					www.thestar.com
				





Richard


----------



## AJCts411

Live at a boarder crossing...they are just asking a few more questions about where you have been and your health.  Crossed Sun.


----------



## Maple_Leaf

Canadian border closed to non-citizens, except for US citizens.








						Canada shutting the border to most non-citizens due to COVID-19: PM Trudeau
					

Prime Minister Justin Trudeau has announced that Canada will be shutting the border to non-Canadian citizens, with the exception of, permanent residents, the immediate family members of Canadian citizens, diplomats, air crews, and U.S. citizens at this time.




					www.ctvnews.ca
				



Anyone showing symptoms will also be denied entry regardless of citizenship.


----------



## jabberwocky

WestJet just cancelled all international flights as of Sunday, March 22 for 30 days.

https://blog.westjet.com/statement-on-operations-and-network-from-ed-sims/


----------



## moonstone

I follow WestJet on Facebook and they posted the following message short time ago.   They only fly to areas in the Caribbean a few (or less) times a week and now are stopping next Sat.  We have Canadian friends here in Belize that are scheduled to fly back home on the 25th, and others on the 28th. Not now!! 
I cant find this statement on WestJet's website yet. 


"Today, Prime Minister Trudeau made an explicit declaration to all Canadians abroad that it is time to come home. Based on this statement and the recommendations to Canadians to control the spread of COVID-19, we will be suspending our commercial operations for all international and transborder flights on Sunday, March 22 at 11:59 p.m. MDT. https://ms.spr.ly/6187Td68W

 While this is a difficult time, we now have the responsibility as a Canadian airline to bring our citizens home. For more details, and to understand how this impacts you, please visit - https://ms.spr.ly/6188Td68o"

~Diane


----------



## moonstone

jabberwocky said:


> WestJet just cancelled all international flights as of Sunday, March 22 for 30 days.
> 
> https://blog.westjet.com/statement-on-operations-and-network-from-ed-sims/


Great minds think alike -we were both posting at the same time!


----------



## RNCollins

*Canada implements cruise restrictions*









						Canada implements cruise restriction: Travel Weekly
					

The country won't allow ships with more than 500 passengers from calling at its ports until at least July 1, delaying the start of the Alaska cruise season for most large-ship lines.




					www.travelweekly.com
				




By Johanna Jainchill  / Cruise / Travel Weekly / travelweekly.com / Mar 16, 2020

“Canada’s government will restrict cruise ships with more than 500 passengers from calling at its ports until at least July 1, delaying the start of the Alaska cruise season for most large ship lines....”


----------



## CanuckTravlr

moonstone said:


> Great minds think alike -we were both posting at the same time!



Diane,

I know you are scheduled to leave Belize on March 29th, per a prior post.  If you are not on a confirmed Canadian airline flight, and even if you are, I would strongly recommend you try and leave ASAP.  Don't leave it too long.  Things are very different here now than when you left and changing rapidly.  The Premier of Ontario has this morning declared a state of emergency and much of the province is now in effective shut-down.  With airlines everywhere cutting back their flight schedules, you may not be able to get home if you do not leave in the next week, IMO.


----------



## CanuckTravlr

RNCollins said:


> *Canada implements cruise restrictions*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Canada implements cruise restriction: Travel Weekly
> 
> 
> The country won't allow ships with more than 500 passengers from calling at its ports until at least July 1, delaying the start of the Alaska cruise season for most large-ship lines.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.travelweekly.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> By Johanna Jainchill  / Cruise / Travel Weekly / travelweekly.com / Mar 16, 2020
> 
> “Canada’s government will restrict cruise ships with more than 500 passengers from calling at its ports until at least July 1, delaying the start of the Alaska cruise season for most large ship lines....”



It is highly expected this will last far longer than July 1st, especially since BC is the province so far with the most Covid-19 related deaths.  Many people in BC, including the provincial government itself, are asking visitors to "please stay away" right now.  The BC government is the one that is pushing Canada to shut down the US/Canada border.  That's how far this has gone now.

Most of those who are experienced cruise posters on sites like Trip Advisor are saying that they fully expect that the Alaska cruise season will not happen in 2020, especially with all the issues of having so many people so close together in a closed environment.


----------



## moonstone

CanuckTravlr said:


> Diane,
> 
> I know you are scheduled to leave Belize on March 29th, per a prior post.  If you are not on a confirmed Canadian airline flight, and even if you are, I would strongly recommend you try and leave ASAP.  Don't leave it too long.  Things are very different here now than when you left and changing rapidly.  The Premier of Ontario has this morning declared a state of emergency and much of the province is now in effective shut-down.  With airlines everywhere cutting back their flight schedules, you may not be able to get home if you do not leave in the next week, IMO.


Yes, we are following the news at home by the minute on the interweb and our family and friends are also keeping us up to date on the situation at home. I truly appreciate your, and everybody else's concern.  Currently there are no cases in Belize, and I know that can change by the hour. All the Belize borders are shut down except for the northern land crossing (near us) and the International airport both of which are screening all incoming people. Many have been turned away and sent back.  So far we feel safe here and have no plans to return any sooner than currently scheduled. We looked at earlier flights the other day but they are scarce and extremely expensive.  We are scheduled to fly out of Chetumal (12 miles from here) then to Mexico City then to Toronto on InterJet Airlines.  So unless the Mexicans close their borders or Canada stops all incoming international flights we think we will be ok.  While we are here we are avoiding gatherings of large groups of people and just socializing with a few folks at a time on outside patios or just riding our bicycles around on our own. We do not eat in restaurants or visit bars.  We are also being very vigilant with hand hygiene. There is no shortage or hording of food or supplies here either.    I'll keep everybody posted on our fate.


~Diane


----------



## MULTIZ321

Coronavirus: International alert as Hong Kong skiers return from Whistler and Vancouver infected with
Covid -19.










						Hong Kong skiers return from Whistler and Vancouver infected with Covid-19
					

Hong Kong authorities have alerted Canadian counterparts after the two women tested positive immediately upon their return from an eight-day ski holiday




					www.scmp.com
				



.


Richard


----------



## CanuckTravlr

Deciding whether or not to cross the Canada/US border for vacation or casual travel in either direction may very shortly become a moot point.  Apparently the Canadian and US governments are close to an agreement to limit such travel.  Only commerce, cargo and necessary transit will be allowed.  Never thought I would see that in my lifetime.  For anyone who thinks this is just another flu, maybe time to get real!


----------



## Tank

I think they should only allow people to fly home one way. 

Taking cheap flights for cheap vacations at this time is nuts. It’s being done. 

$42 round trip from Boston to Florida is just wrong. The airlines are better off grounded and on unemployment. 

Our system allows “Bonus time” they are hopping around for next to nothing because they can. 

What a mess!


----------



## CanuckTravlr

MULTIZ321 said:


> Coronavirus: International alert as Hong Kong skiers return from Whistler and Vancouver infected with
> Covid -19.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hong Kong skiers return from Whistler and Vancouver infected with Covid-19
> 
> 
> Hong Kong authorities have alerted Canadian counterparts after the two women tested positive immediately upon their return from an eight-day ski holiday
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.scmp.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> Richard



Based on the timelines involved, I'm going to suggest that it is much more likely that they picked up the Covid-19 virus in Hong Kong before they left and only became symptomatic around the time they were heading back from Canada.  To have picked up the virus in Canada, given they were only here for 8 days and the known incubation period is around 14 days, they would have to have been infected almost immediately upon landing for there even to be a chance.  Otherwise they have potentially carried it here and spread it around.  This is why people should stop travelling!

Hong Kong has had the virus much longer.  I suppose they could have gotten it while transiting through the airports in either Hong Kong or Vancouver on the inbound journey to Vancouver, or on the plane itself, but even that would result in a relatively short incubation period.  I guess we will have to see if the investigation is able to identify the original source and location.


----------



## MULTIZ321

Head of Saskatchewan medical group tests
positive for COVID-19 following Edmonton
bonspiel.










						Head of Saskatchewan medical group tests positive for COVID-19 following Edmonton bonspiel
					

Dr. Allan Woo, president of the Saskatchewan Medical Association, said in a letter to members that he tested positive for the virus last night.




					www.thestar.com
				



.


Richard


----------



## VacationForever

CanuckTravlr said:


> Based on the timelines involved, I'm going to suggest that it is much more likely that they picked up the Covid-19 virus in Hong Kong before they left and only became symptomatic around the time they were heading back from Canada.  To have picked up the virus in Canada, given they were only here for 8 days and the known incubation period is around 14 days, they would have to have been infected almost immediately upon landing for there even to be a chance.  Otherwise they have potentially carried it here and spread it around.  This is why people should stop travelling!
> 
> Hong Kong has had the virus much longer.  I suppose they could have gotten it while transiting through the airports in either Hong Kong or Vancouver on the inbound journey to Vancouver, or on the plane itself, but even that would result in a relatively short incubation period.  I guess we will have to see if the investigation is able to identify the original source and location.


Not necessarily.  Incubation is from 2 days to 14 days.  Anything is possible.


----------



## Fredflintstone

I do know the Pacific Northwest area is reeling with covid 19. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## VacationForever

Fredflintstone said:


> I do know the Pacific Northwest area is reeling with covid 19.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


Anywhere with tourists is an issue.  Tourists love the Pacific Northwest.  Heck, I have been to BC several times myself.


----------



## CanuckTravlr

VacationForever said:


> Not necessarily.  Incubation is from 2 days to 14 days.  Anything is possible.



It shows how much we are only now learning about this virus and how quickly things are changing.  I just read today that they now think the incubation period is much shorter than previously thought, perhaps as short as 2 to 8 days.  That might help explain the rapid explosion of the virus once it is in the community.  It also means it is now more likely that the Hong Kong visitors picked it up in BC or en route, rather than Hong Kong, despite the higher prevalence in Hong Kong.


----------



## Fredflintstone

VacationForever said:


> Anywhere with tourists is an issue. Tourists love the Pacific Northwest. Heck, I have been to BC several times myself.



I know Vancouver is a vacation hotspot for Asians. Almost all Asian flights end up in Vancouver in Canada.

I think Seattle is the same. I have friends in Seattle and they just got covid 19. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## moonstone

moonstone said:


> Yes, we are following the news at home by the minute on the interweb and our family and friends are also keeping us up to date on the situation at home. I truly appreciate your, and everybody else's concern.  Currently there are no cases in Belize, and I know that can change by the hour. All the Belize borders are shut down except for the northern land crossing (near us) and the International airport both of which are screening all incoming people. Many have been turned away and sent back.  So far we feel safe here and have no plans to return any sooner than currently scheduled. We looked at earlier flights the other day but they are scarce and extremely expensive.  We are scheduled to fly out of Chetumal (12 miles from here) then to Mexico City then to Toronto on InterJet Airlines.  So unless the Mexicans close their borders or Canada stops all incoming international flights we think we will be ok.  While we are here we are avoiding gatherings of large groups of people and just socializing with a few folks at a time on outside patios or just riding our bicycles around on our own. We do not eat in restaurants or visit bars.  We are also being very vigilant with hand hygiene. There is no shortage or hording of food or supplies here either.    I'll keep everybody posted on our fate.
> 
> ~Diane



Well the $hit hit the fan today!  I logged onto our airline's website to confirm our departure time from Chetumal airport. There is a 1hr time difference between here and there and I wanted to be sure the time I wrote down was the Chetumal time. When I looked at our 2nd leg of our flight the time was different but the flight number was the same. InterJet now had us departing Mexico City 3 hours before we were scheduled to arrive! 
I literally spent the entire afternoon on hold (on Google Hangouts) with InterJet's Toronto office waiting to speak to an agent. When my call was finally answered and I asked the guy to look at the MEX arrival and departure times he chuckled and asked if I had a time machine! 
He eventually found us the same itinerary but for this Sunday since the new schedule begins next Friday. 
So we have 2 days to pack up our apartment and put everything into storage, and probably won't have time to say goodbye to most of our friends but our family is happy that we will be home soon!

I don't know what would have happened if I hadn't decided to look on the website as we still have not received any notification from the airline of the flight changes for the MEX leg. We would have shown up at the airport on the 29th and been really stuck!  I will be writing  InterJet a nice letter when I get home and have some time while we are in self quarantine. 


-Diane


----------



## MULTIZ321

Air Canada lays off more than 5,000 flight attendants amid COVID-19 pandemic.










						Air Canada lays off more than 5,000 flight attendants amid COVID-19 pandemic
					

A union official says Air Canada is laying off more than 5,000 flight attendants as the country's largest airline cuts routes and parks planes due to COVID-19.




					www.ctvnews.ca
				



.


Richard


----------



## MULTIZ321

The coronavirus is pushing the world into unknown
territory. Canada is especially vulnerable.










						Opinion: The coronavirus is pushing the world into unknown territory. Canada is especially vulnerable
					

Canadians may have been under the illusion the pandemic may somehow brush past us, but it’s obvious that will not happen




					www.theglobeandmail.com
				





Richard


----------



## MULTIZ321

Coronavirus: What will happen to Canada's housing
market amid the pandemic?










						Coronavirus: What will happen to Canada’s housing market amid the pandemic? - National | Globalnews.ca
					

With virtual open houses and hand sanitizer replacing handshakes, it's already a sea change in the housing market.




					globalnews.ca
				





Richard


----------



## CanuckTravlr

The bigger issue is if people are out of work for an extended period of time, without some type of ongoing income from either their employer or the government, then you will start to see potential mortgage defaults.  This is not just a potential issue for Canada, but throughout the world.

In Canada the largest part of household debt is due to the mortgage on our principal residence.  Unlike the USA, where mortgage interest is tax-deductible, there is an incentive to pay our mortgages down since they are paid out of after-tax income.  Our mortgage debt is higher partly because real estate costs are also generally higher in Canada than in the USA and there is a new generation just entering the real estate market.

If the real estate market slows down for awhile, that may be helpful in taking some of the pressure off a red-hot market.  The key ones suffering in that case will be speculators and real estate agents.  Neither of those are of concern to me.  The bigger issue is whether the average Joe or Jane can continue to cover their debt.  If not, there may be a further prolonged impact to our economy, comparable to the 2008 US real estate meltdown.

Overall Canada is fairing better than the USA so far in this pandemic, because we started to pro-act and react sooner than the US and in a more coordinated fashion.  To date Canada has 1,085 Covid-19 cases with 13 deaths.  The USA has over 15,200 cases with 201 deaths.  With 9 times our population the numbers in the US should only be around 9,800 cases and 117 deaths to be comparable to Canada.  So the US is so far much more at risk.  That is certainly not a reason to be smug, but it does show the difference that a full-out early and coordinated intervention can make.


----------



## MULTIZ321

Justin Trudeau called Canadians home - and they're coming, by the hundreds of thousands.










						Justin Trudeau called Canadians home — and they’re coming, by the hundreds of thousands
					

There are 6,500 frontline border officers stationed at Canadian airports and 117 land border posts.




					www.thestar.com
				



.


Richard


----------



## CanuckTravlr

MULTIZ321 said:


> Justin Trudeau called Canadians home - and they're coming, by the hundreds of thousands.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Justin Trudeau called Canadians home — and they’re coming, by the hundreds of thousands
> 
> 
> There are 6,500 frontline border officers stationed at Canadian airports and 117 land border posts.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.thestar.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> Richard



Yes.  Canadians, like our Aussie cousins, are big travellers.  Even before it was needed to cross the Canada/US border, the majority of Canadians held a passport, unlike our cousins in the USA.  

During extraordinary times like this, we realize just how many of our fellow countrymen are actually outside the country.  Unfortunately, many in remote locations are struggling to get home and some likely won't make it.


----------



## am1

MULTIZ321 said:


> Justin Trudeau called Canadians home - and they're coming, by the hundreds of thousands.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Justin Trudeau called Canadians home — and they’re coming, by the hundreds of thousands
> 
> 
> There are 6,500 frontline border officers stationed at Canadian airports and 117 land border posts.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.thestar.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> 
> Richard



Im staying where I am.  A much better situation then going through airports and sitting in a patri dish for 5 hours.  People should have started moving earlier at their own expense if thats what they wanted.  It is not helping flatten the curve.


----------



## moonstone

MULTIZ321 said:


> Justin Trudeau called Canadians home - and they're coming, by the hundreds of thousands.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Justin Trudeau called Canadians home — and they’re coming, by the hundreds of thousands
> 
> 
> There are 6,500 frontline border officers stationed at Canadian airports and 117 land border posts.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.thestar.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> Richard


We are home, but It wasn't without more stress and hassle! Further to my posts above we packed up in a hurry and got out of Belize Saturday before the govt closed the border, and into a hotel in Chetumal. Sunday afternoon we took a taxi to the airport and when the InterJet desk agents finally opened up an agent stood on a bench and made a rather lengthy speech. Naturally it was all in Spanish and we didn't understand anything. An American standing behind us told us they had just cancelled the flight! I wondered what was up as every time I checked Flight Tracker all afternoon our flight showed as on time, but when I clicked on "where's my plane now" there was no information. Luckily the agent we had lined up in front of spoke English very well. He said that they were going to re-book us on the flight the next day. We told him we were booked on a connecting flight in Mexico City to go on to Toronto that evening so a flight the next day was unacceptable. He asked us to wait a few minutes and he would see what he could arrange. He returned about 10 minutes later and said another airline (Volaris) had a flight to Mexico City leaving an hour after our original departure time and he had them hold 2 seats for us. He said we would still have enough time in MX City to collect our bags then recheck them with InterJet for the last leg of our journey. The agent said he had also called the InterJet desk in MX City to advise them we would definitely be on the 2nd leg of our flight but we would be arriving on Volaris. We had to buy the tickets for Volaris and we called today for a refund on the portion of the InterJet flight that was cancelled. They haven't informed us yet on what that amount it will be. We don't care, whatever the cost is, it was worth every penny to make our connection. 

We arrived at the Toronto airport early yesterday morning, to find there were very few people in the Immigration/Customs hall or the baggage claim area. There were dozens of customs/ border agents stopping every person and handing out pamphlets explaining the symptoms of COVID19 and telling people they had to go directly home without using public transit or stopping anywhere and self isolate in their homes for 14 days. There were also lots of hand sanitizer dispensers throughout the airport.  We were outside waiting for the ParkNFly shuttle about 45 mins after getting off the plane. We found our van that 2 of our kids had left there Sunday and were able to claim it with the receipt our DS emailed to us. We arrived home to find our neighbour (& DH's fellow firefighter) who looked after our house all winter had been over an hour before we arrived and turned up our furnace and water heater. His wife had baked a batch of muffins and there were a dozen sitting on our counter. Our DD had not only picked up a bunch of groceries for us on Saturday, taken them to our place, she even put them all away! She also took a bottle of hand sanitizer and a tub of Lysol wipes from the upstairs bathroom and put them in our mudroom. She thought we might want to wipe down our suitcases before taking them upstairs, which we did. We also stripped down to our underwear and put everything in the washing machine, even our windbreakers. Our shoes got a Lysol wipe down and then sat in an inch of Mr Clean in the laundry tub overnight to clean the soles.

Hopefully we didn't pickup anything at any of the 3 airports, we were really using a lot of hand sanitizer and being very careful. There were a lot of people wearing masks (not us) and some wearing gloves, including 1 woman we saw who was wearing lovely pink dishwashing gloves that went right up to her elbow! Now we are in our home for the next 14 days catching up on 3 months of pre-recorded TV shows and enjoying the fast internet.


~Diane


----------



## CanuckTravlr

What a great bunch of neighbours, friends and family you have, Diane!!  Kudos also to the InterJet agent who went out of his way to find a solution for your flight to Mexico City. 

Welcome home and try to enjoy your two weeks of mandatory quarantine.  Glad you made it back safe and sound.


----------



## bdurstta

We have reservatioins for June 13 in Vancouver. I am bummed...we were so looking forward to it, but even in June I don't think I want to fly if I don't have to.  Now sure what will happen to the week now. Use it or lose it?  Dang.  

Any suggestions?


----------



## moonstone

CanuckTravlr said:


> What a great bunch of neighbours, friends and family you have, Diane!!  Kudos also to the InterJet agent who went out of his way to find a solution for your flight to Mexico City.
> 
> Welcome home and try to enjoy your two weeks of mandatory quarantine.  Glad you made it back safe and sound.



Thanks,  yes we truly have some awesome family, friends and neighbours.  We have had so many offers of picking up what ever groceries we need, even from people who would need to drive many miles out of their way to deliver them to us. Even my 89 yr old dad offered to pickup whatever we needed and make the 20 min drive from Barrie up to our place.  I think he was just looking for an excuse to see us earlier or to get out of the house! I made him promise he wouldn't make any more trips to any stores or drive-though's until this virus is over.  Our friend/neighbour that looked after our house all winter also went and got our car out of its storage facility in Midland (20mins north of us) yesterday as he was going up near there to check on his brother. 
We are glad to be back but I did catch DH looking at airfares today to return to Belize around New Years!

~Diane


----------



## MULTIZ321

No paywall in the chicken coop: A fast-food chain is
paying to take down 16 Canadian newspapers'
paywalls this month.










						No paywall in the chicken coop: A fast-food chain is paying to take down 16 Canadian newspapers’ paywalls this month
					

Canadians will be able to keep abreast of the latest news for the next month, thanks to a sponsorship from Mary Brown's Chicken & Taters, home of the Tater Poutine. This thing could have legs.



					www.niemanlab.org
				





Richard


----------



## qb_bc

bdurstta said:


> We have reservatioins for June 13 in Vancouver. I am bummed...we were so looking forward to it, but even in June I don't think I want to fly if I don't have to.  Now sure what will happen to the week now. Use it or lose it?  Dang.
> 
> Any suggestions?



The following quote is from a news report on the BC Health Minister from two days ago;

_"Health Minister Adrian Dix said the chance of public health orders being lifted before the end of May or early weeks of June was “little to none.” _

June 13 is cutting it close."

I just cut a vacation in Mexico short by one week, getting back on March 21. With hindsight I think I should have stayed home. We are OK, but were anxious on our second week. We also came back to quarantine for fourteen days.

Edit: corrected date


----------



## CanuckTravlr

qb_bc said:


> The following quote is from a news report on the BC Health Minister from two days ago;
> 
> _"Health Minister Adrian Dix said the chance of public health orders being lifted before the end of May or early weeks of June was “little to none.” _
> 
> June 13 is cutting it close."
> 
> I just cut a vacation in Mexico short by one week, getting back on May 21. With hindsight I think I should have stayed home. We are OK, but were anxious on our second week. We also came back to quarantine for fourteen days.



I assume you meant March 21, not May 21?

I agree with you.  Toronto has now cancelled all public events through to the end of June and warned that it may well later be extended further into the summer.  We got back home February 4th after 3 weeks in St. Martin and the warnings were being ramped up even then.  We were supposed to leave for three weeks in Florida on March 1st, but reluctantly pulled the plug.  In hindsight it was definitely the right decision.  Stay safe as you finish the last couple of days of your mandatory quarantine!

We had planned to head out to Vancouver and Victoria in August to visit with relatives, but we have now taken that off the table.  Our next vacation that is actually booked is not until December 1st.  We don't have to make the decision to cancel until November 1st.  I am hopeful and optimistic that we will be able to go, but will not be surprised if we can't.  If so, we will not hesitate to pull the plug.  As seniors, we will be very nervous about travelling until there is an actual vaccine available or this pandemic has truly settled down.  Then there is the issue of a potential "second wave".    

We may end up pulling the plug on Florida in any case.  We are considering boycotting the state for a while to protest the lackadaisical and inconsistent approach to this pandemic by [this state's officials].

[Poltical remarks redacted]


----------



## Maple_Leaf

Women's Rogers Cup tennis in Montreal scheduled for August is toast. The Quebec government apparently doesn't want international travel to events until September at the earliest.








						Rogers Cup WTA event postponed until 2021
					

The women's section of the Rogers Cup is postponed for a year because of the coronavirus pandemic.




					www.bbc.com


----------



## Dori

We cut our Florida winter trip short by two weeks, when our insurance company sent e-mails stating they would not cover out of country claims after March 23rd. We got back home in the 21st, and then did our two-week quarantine.

We had been so looking forward to a three week trip to Vietnam in mid-June, but have had to cancel that. We were going to take our 11 year old granddaughter to visit our son, daughter-in-law, and two grandchildren (7 and 3). The plan was to stay with them in Ho Chi Minh for a few days, then all of us would travel to Thailand for 10 days. Broke our hearts to have to cancel. We had booked two of the airline tickets on Eva Air, using  Aeroplan points, and were able to get all our points and taxes back. 

The third ticket was purchased by credit card direct with Eva Air. To date, flights to  Vietnam, through Taiwan, have been cancelled through April 30. I am waiting to see if they cancel further out before I pull the plug, in hopes that I don’t lose a big portion of the cost. 

Dori


----------



## MULTIZ321

How hospitals will tackle the backlog of nearly 100,000 surgeries delayed by the pandemic.




			https://www.cbc.ca/news/health/covid-19-surgery-backlog-canada-1.5543530
		

.


Richard


----------



## judell

Only essential workers i.e.nurses, doctors and truckers can cross weither way. Border Closed until May 20


----------



## Fredflintstone

judell said:


> Only essential workers i.e.nurses, doctors and truckers can cross weither way. Border Closed until May 20



I think the closure will last beyond May 20th except for essential travel. All I can tell you is my source would know. They review it monthly. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## AJCts411

The flu does not recognize any boundaries.  Not that I think it's not of any value in preventing any increase in transmissions.  The Canada USA boarder is quite different than the Mexico USA boarder.   I am one of those who thinks and uses reasonable precautions so I hope the boarders open sooner rather than later.   Really think this is in the hands of the USA not so much Canada.


----------



## Chrisky

AJCts411 said:


> The flu does not recognize any boundaries.  Not that I think it's not of any value in preventing any increase in transmissions.  The Canada USA boarder is quite different than the Mexico USA boarder.   I am one of those who thinks and uses reasonable precautions so I hope the boarders open sooner rather than later.   Really think this is in the hands of the USA not so much Canada.


I will have to disagree with opening the Canada/USA border to casual travel. 
AJC you may be careful, and my husband and I are careful. Only one person has done our grocery shopping, we have not gone outside of our immediate area and only walk outside in our area.  
But, and it is a big but, no one can be sure of what the majority of other people do. The larger consideration would be what care will  businesses be doing, on either side of the border,  to safeguard their employees and their customers.  
Right now there is no quick, accurate, test that could be done at the border to verify if anyone has the virus.  
Until our country and yours see a significant drop in positive cases, I would not like to see our borders open to casual travel.


----------



## jabberwocky

Any guesses as to whether the ban will be extended again?

Westjet just cancelled more international and trans order flights up until June 25 (which apparently included our flights to OGG on June 26). I think they are probably talking to the Government and taking a cue from them. 

Deputy Prime Minister is also thinking out loud in the papers about how non-essential travel is not restarting soon.


----------



## T-Dot-Traveller

jabberwocky said:


> Any guesses as to whether the ban will be extended again?
> West jet just cancelled more international ... I think they are probably talking to the Government and taking a cue from them.
> Deputy Prime Minister is also thinking out loud .....



I think it will be extended .

Also - here are some practical problems for those who would cross .
1 ) presumptive 14 day quarantine upon reentry to Canada
2) coverage exclusion issues from travel medical insurance - if you are hospitalized in USA with Covid 19.

So if you could go for the day to Niagara Falls NY - quarantine for 14 days .
If you could go to Florida for a month and end up hospitalized due to Covid - no insurance coverage .

Who is left that wants to cross over the border ?


----------



## MULTIZ321

Canada, US border closure: Here's what to know.










						Canada, US border closure: Here’s what to know
					

Non-essential travel between the United States and Canada has been banned since March amid the coronavirus pandemic.




					www.clickondetroit.com
				





Richard


----------



## moonstone

I was just reading about some people who live in Canmore Alberta (very near Banff) who got talking to an American couple dining at the table next to them at a restaurant patio. The conversation got around to how the couple from Texas were able to get into Canada at this time. The couple said they had planned this vacation in the Rockies for a long time and didn't want "some stupid virus" get in their way.  When they got to the US/Canada border they told officials they were driving to Alaska to check on elderly relatives.  They were told to drive straight there with minimal and essential stopping only. Of course they had no intention of going to Alaska and were not quarantining themselves after their arrival last week.  Thanks guys, this is how the virus will continue to spread!

~Diane


----------



## Chrisky

I have to ask. No one reported these people from Texas!!!??


----------



## Luanne

moonstone said:


> I was just reading about some people who live in Canmore Alberta (very near Banff) who got talking to an American couple dining at the table next to them at a restaurant patio. The conversation got around to how the couple from Texas were able to get into Canada at this time. The couple said they had planned this vacation in the Rockies for a long time and didn't want "some stupid virus" get in their way.  When they got to the US/Canada border they told officials they were driving to Alaska to check on elderly relatives.  They were told to drive straight there with minimal and essential stopping only. Of course they had no intention of going to Alaska and were not quarantining themselves after their arrival last week.  Thanks guys, this is how the virus will continue to spread!
> 
> ~Diane


I hate to say it, but I believe it.  We border Texas and the influx of Texas license plates we've seen recently are overwhelming.  They do flock here in the nicer weather, but we (residents of New Mexico) are pretty sure they are the ones out and about without wearing masks.  COVID 19 cases are growing in Texas, and now they seem to want to spread it around.  Sorry for anyone from Texas who I may have offended.


----------



## moonstone

Chrisky said:


> I have to ask. No one reported these people from Texas!!!??


I hope somebody did, I sure would have!  A friend of ours said the story was reported on CTV Calgary and a waitress in a Banff restaurant reported the same type of story. I shared the information on my FB page and heard from another friend who's daughter lives in Vancouver. She said her daughter has seen lots of Washington (state) license plates around town in the last couple of weeks.   We live near cottage country and have seen vehicles with PA, MI & NY plates on them in Orillia in the last week. We thought it was bad that people from Toronto (Ontario COVID hot spot) are flocking up to this area -now we have our border guards letting even more possible COVID positive people into the country. 


~Diane


----------



## Chrisky

Moonstone, that is very troubling.  I would be writing anyone in government I could think of to complain.  Unfortunately, I am not on FB or Twitter. That would be the place to start an awareness campaign on the government pages to make them aware of these occurrences.


----------



## geist1223

Some people are so self centered and selfish.


----------



## CanuckTravlr

I saw an update on the news in an interview with the local RCMP spokesperson.  The RCMP are aware of the situation.  If this Texas family is located by the RCMP they had better have a very good explanation as to how they got so far off track in Banff on "their way to Alaska" and had the gall to actually sit in a restaurant, let alone without masks.

Making a false statement to a border officer is a serious offence.  Potentially a large fine, jail time and a permanent ban on entering Canada.  Their licence plate will certainly stick out these days.  I hope they are caught and made an example for others.


----------



## Luanne

CanuckTravlr said:


> Making a false statement to a border officer is a serious offence.  Potentially a large fine, jail time and a permanent ban on entering Canada.  Their licence plate will certainly stick out these days.  I hope they are caught and made an example for others.


My dd mentioned this as well.


----------



## mcsteve

*American tourists in Alberta? RCMP investigating possible breaches of COVID-19 restrictions*
*








						American tourists in Alberta? RCMP investigating possible breaches of COVID-19 restrictions
					

Banff restaurants may be "starving for business," but they're still wary of serving visitors from "massive hot spots" in the U.S.




					globalnews.ca
				



*


----------



## moonstone

They are not just in Alberta, but as I mentioned in a previous post they are in Ontario as well.  We saw NY & PA license plated vehicles in Orillia ON in the last 2 weeks and passed a MI plated car on Hwy 11 near Orillia last week.  There are quite a few Americans with cottages in the Muskoka area (just north of us) so maybe they were allowed across the border -who knows.   I hope the RCMP in Alberta catches up with the dishonest tourists.


~Diane


----------



## am1

moonstone said:


> I was just reading about some people who live in Canmore Alberta (very near Banff) who got talking to an American couple dining at the table next to them at a restaurant patio. The conversation got around to how the couple from Texas were able to get into Canada at this time. The couple said they had planned this vacation in the Rockies for a long time and didn't want "some stupid virus" get in their way.  When they got to the US/Canada border they told officials they were driving to Alaska to check on elderly relatives.  They were told to drive straight there with minimal and essential stopping only. Of course they had no intention of going to Alaska and were not quarantining themselves after their arrival last week.  Thanks guys, this is how the virus will continue to spread!
> 
> ~Diane



Customs fault and all the way up to the prime minister for allowing Americans to drive to Alaska.  Tell them to take a boat or fly.  But par for the course.  Abuse is very easy.  Probably if caught just a slap on the wrist.


----------



## SmithOp

It will be interesting to see what happens in 6 months when the winter birds start heading south.

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk


----------



## Tacoma

It does not matter if it is Americans coming up to Canada or Canadians going south for the winter. So far though we only have stories of US citizens using the I am driving up to Alaska loophole. The border is CLOSED to all non essential travel. I am hoping that anyone who lies to a customs official on either side of the border will see strict punishments.  My family has been following the rules and would like to be able to get back to some form of normal as quickly as possible. This is not strictly an American or Canadian problem it is an I'm more important than anyone else problem.  Too bad there is so much of that going around.


----------



## CanuckTravlr

SmithOp said:


> It will be interesting to see what happens in 6 months when the winter birds start heading south.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk



I own an HGVC timeshare.  There are NO HGVC timeshares in Canada and very few comparable RCI resorts.  Our March trip to Florida was cancelled.  Our next booking is in Florida at the beginning of December.  Right now I cannot even use my timeshare ownership even if I wanted to, because the border is closed and I can't get to them.  That is unfortunate, but I can live with it if it helps keep myself, my family and others safe.

If it is not safe to do so, or the border is still closed in 6 months, I will not be going to Florida or anywhere else in the USA.  And I will not be lying to some US CBP officer, if I can find some "loophole" in order to do so.  Are there some here who might? Probably.  But just like these few Americans, I suspect they are a small minority.  They seem to be a group of pampered, overly self-entitled, "I don't care about anyone but myself" type of tourist, that has never had to sacrifice or give up anything in their lives for more than 15 minutes!

They seem to think it is OK to lie, as long as they get their "vacation".  I hope anyone from either side of the border, who thinks the rules should not apply to them, gets caught and doesn't just get a "slap on the wrist".  The rest of us are fed up with that type of self-centred attitude.  I will now step down off my soapbox.


----------



## jabberwocky

CanuckTravlr said:


> I own an HGVC timeshare.  There are NO HGVC timeshares in Canada and very few comparable RCI resorts.  Our March trip to Florida was cancelled.  Our next booking is in Florida at the beginning of December.  Right now I cannot even use my timeshare ownership even if I wanted to, because the border is closed and I can't get to them.  That is unfortunate, but I can live with it if it helps keep myself, my family and others safe.
> 
> If it is not safe to do so, or the border is still closed in 6 months, I will not be going to Florida or anywhere else in the USA.  And I will not be lying to some US CBP officer, if I can find some "loophole" in order to do so.  Are there some here who might? Probably.



You do realize that you can FLY to the US if you are a Canadian. The Americans only closed the land borders (which includes ferries and rail). Problem is finding reasonable flights - but the closure isn’t as tight as what is being portrayed in the media.  I guess this is a loophole. You still have to quarantine on return for 14 days which might kill it for many people.


----------



## jabberwocky

moonstone said:


> They are not just in Alberta, but as I mentioned in a previous post they are in Ontario as well.  We saw NY & PA license plated vehicles in Orillia ON in the last 2 weeks and passed a MI plated car on Hwy 11 near Orillia last week.  There are quite a few Americans with cottages in the Muskoka area (just north of us) so maybe they were allowed across the border -who knows.   I hope the RCMP in Alberta catches up with the dishonest tourists.


We should be careful about profiling people based on their license plates. There are plenty of Canadian citizens living in the US who have the right to enter Canada.


----------



## moonstone

jabberwocky said:


> We should be careful about profiling people based on their license plates. There are plenty of Canadian citizens living in the US who have the right to enter Canada.



Yes, I agree. I have family (Canadian citizens) living in California, that own a vacation property up here so I suppose they could drive up to stay in it if they wanted.  This afternoon on my walk around our block I saw a car with NY license plates pull into my new neighbour's driveway. The children living in the house seemed to be excited about the arrival of the visitors, running around and squealing. Within an hour I could see more cars and about 12-15 people standing, not social distancing & no masks on anybody, on the front lawn.  Hopefully everybody stays healthy as there are new positive Covid test results every day around here.

~Diane


----------



## moonstone

CanuckTravlr said:


> I own an HGVC timeshare.  There are NO HGVC timeshares in Canada and very few comparable RCI resorts.  Our March trip to Florida was cancelled.  Our next booking is in Florida at the beginning of December.  Right now I cannot even use my timeshare ownership even if I wanted to, because the border is closed and I can't get to them.  That is unfortunate, but I can live with it if it helps keep myself, my family and others safe.
> 
> If it is not safe to do so, or the border is still closed in 6 months, I will not be going to Florida or anywhere else in the USA.  And I will not be lying to some US CBP officer, if I can find some "loophole" in order to do so.  Are there some here who might? Probably.  But just like these few Americans, I suspect they are a small minority.  They seem to be a group of pampered, overly self-entitled, "I don't care about anyone but myself" type of tourist, that has never had to sacrifice or give up anything in their lives for more than 15 minutes!
> 
> They seem to think it is OK to lie, as long as they get their "vacation".  I hope anyone from either side of the border, who thinks the rules should not apply to them, get caught and don't just get a "slap on the wrist".  The rest of us are fed up with that type of self-centred attitude.  I will now step down off my soapbox.



We also have a reservation at our home resort in Florida for this fall (Nov.1) and hoped to add a 2nd week after that but we are holding off booking that 2nd week in case we cant go down at all.  We also have an RCI Points exchange booked for the end of September in Virginia and are expecting that might be cancelled as well. If we cant cross the border we will likely take our camping trailer and go somewhere around here for a week or two.  There is no way we would lie, or even stretch the truth, to any border guard of any country, it just isn't worth it. We vacation a lot in the USA and don't want to risk getting our entry banned.


~Diane


----------



## CanuckTravlr

@jabberwocky

Yes, I am aware that I can fly to the US, but there are no direct flights to anywhere near the resort.  In any case, the whole point of going to a timeshare or condo rental on the eastern seaboard, is so that we can drive there.  No airport hassles, constant lining up, going through security, lugging baggage, arranging a rental vehicle, et cetera.  Plus, we get to use our own car and take whatever we want that will allow us to be comfortable for a multi-week stay.

In any case, right now there is not a chance in h*** that as a senior I will get on a potentially crowded aircraft for 3 hours or more, or go through multiple airports, at least not until there is someway of controlling this virus.  Just not worth the risk, IMO.  So if we can't drive there, we aren't going.  In the car we also don't have to wear a mask while travelling, at least not until we have to get out near someone else.

We have no problem with the 14-day quarantine upon return, since we don't just go for a few days.  My wife and I have been effectively quarantined for over 3 months now already.  I have not spent 3 months not going further than the pharmacy once a month to blow it for the sake of a vacation.  For us at least, vacations are a want, not a need.  When we were much younger there were lots of years we could not take a non-local vacation.  We can do it again, if necessary.


----------



## jabberwocky

@CanuckTravlr 

I completely respect and understand your reasons for not wanting to fly. I was merely pointing out that there are some ways to cross the US border so it’s not necessarily impossible to use a US timeshare. 

Personally I agree with you -  I’d be much more comfortable driving across the border to a timeshare in Montana (new cases today: 8), than I would be to fly to Toronto, Orlando or San Diego.


----------



## moonstone

From a CBC News story  (https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/canada-u-s-border-rules-and-restrictions-covid-19-travel-1.5619268)  about American tourists in Banff that I mentioned in an earlier post. 
"RCMP said officers fined seven Americans this week who were supposed to be driving straight to Alaska, but instead were caught taking in the sights at Banff National Park. The fines, issued under the Alberta Health Act, were for $1,200 each. "

Good!  Hopefully they escorted them to the border! 


~Diane


----------



## am1

moonstone said:


> From a CBC News story  (https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/canada-u-s-border-rules-and-restrictions-covid-19-travel-1.5619268)  about American tourists in Banff that I mentioned in an earlier post.
> "RCMP said officers fined seven Americans this week who were supposed to be driving straight to Alaska, but instead were caught taking in the sights at Banff National Park. The fines, issued under the Alberta Health Act, were for $1,200 each. "
> 
> Good!  Hopefully they escorted them to the border!
> 
> 
> ~Diane


Deportation and a ban for lying to immigration officer upon entry would have fit the crime better.


----------



## jabberwocky

moonstone said:


> From a CBC News story  (https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/canada-u-s-border-rules-and-restrictions-covid-19-travel-1.5619268)  about American tourists in Banff that I mentioned in an earlier post.
> "RCMP said officers fined seven Americans this week who were supposed to be driving straight to Alaska, but instead were caught taking in the sights at Banff National Park. The fines, issued under the Alberta Health Act, were for $1,200 each. "
> 
> ~Diane



Not sure on the exact exchange rate - but with current exchange rates that's a bargain for not having to quarantine.   

My guess is that they will skip out on the payment - pretty difficult to collect on out of country visitors.


----------



## JanT

Only the unreasonable would be offended by what you said.  We live in Texas and you certainly didn't offend me - because what you said has a lot of validity to it.  I cannot believe the number of people that go without masks here in Texas.  They seem to have no concern about anyone but themselves and it's upsetting.  The mayor of our county just worked around Governor Abbott and we are now required to wear masks when we go into businesses, etc., so hopefully that will help.  We have been wearing masks since the beginning but a lot of people haven't.  I don't understand the mentality of that.  I get that no one wants to live in fear and we certainly don't, but we are being cautious.  Not only for ourselves but for others as well.  A lot of people here on TUG know that our daughter came within hours of dying from H1N1 in 2011.  I never want to willfully be responsible for someone else or their parents going through what we went through during that time.  If I have to wear a mask for the rest of my life to try to prevent that, I will.



Luanne said:


> Sorry for anyone from Texas who I may have offended.


----------



## mcsteve

jabberwocky said:


> My guess is that they will skip out on the payment - pretty difficult to collect on out of country visitors.


Agreements between Canada and US states allow for collection enforcement of gov’t issued fines and penalties. I am not in the know about these particular fines but there will likely be enforceable collection actions if they choose to ignore the fines. Many Canadians are have also been under the false assumption that fines Received in the US are not collectible, until they get a notice their license is suspended for failing to pay a speeding ticket obtained when driving in a US state.


----------



## sue1947

mcsteve said:


> Agreements between Canada and US states allow for collection enforcement of gov’t issued fines and penalties. I am not in the know about these particular fines but there will likely be enforceable collection actions if they choose to ignore the fines. Many Canadians are have also been under the false assumption that fines Received in the US are not collectible, until they get a notice their license is suspended for failing to pay a speeding ticket obtained when driving in a US state.



Plus they have to get back across the border.


----------



## moonstone

I just got a fb message from my friend who lives in Edmonton AB. She & her DH are camping this weekend in an Alberta Provincial Park near Jasper (north of Banff) and when they got to the campground office they noticed the big 5th wheel stopped in front of them had its license plates turned around backwards. While my friend's DH went into the office to register she got her dog out (so as to not appear too nosey) and walked over for a closer look.  Vivien could see that the license plate was a Texas one and when she walked up so she could see the back of the pick-up truck, it had its plate turned around as well and was also a Texas one! The owner came out of the office just then but she didn't want to confront him. Vivien went into the park office and told her DH and Park Ranger what she saw and the Ranger said "Oh no again"!  They saw the ranger make a phone call as they were leaving the office.
After our friends got unhooked and set up, Denis went up to the office to buy some firewood and there was an RCMP cruiser parked at the office and an officer in talking to the Park Ranger. I guess some more arrogant Texans are getting a fine and hopefully escorted back to the border. SMH


~Diane


----------



## Luanne

moonstone said:


> I just got a fb message from my friend who lives in Edmonton AB. She & her DH are camping this weekend in an Alberta Provincial Park near Jasper (north of Banff) and when they got to the campground office they noticed the big 5th wheel stopped in front of them had its license plates turned around backwards. While my friend's DH went into the office to register she got her dog out (so as to not appear too nosey) and walked over for a closer look.  Vivien could see that the license plate was a Texas one and when she walked up so she could see the back of the pick-up truck, it had its plate turned around as well and was also a Texas one! The owner came out of the office just then but she didn't want to confront him. Vivien went into the park office and told her DH and Park Ranger what she saw and the Ranger said "Oh no again"!  They saw the ranger make a phone call as they were leaving the office.
> After our friends got unhooked and set up, Denis went up to the office to buy some firewood and there was an RCMP cruiser parked at the office and an officer in talking to the Park Ranger. I guess some more arrogant Texans are getting a fine and hopefully escorted back to the border. SMH
> 
> 
> ~Diane


Since they had turned the license plates around so they couldn't be seen it should be pretty obvious they knew they were doing something wrong.


----------



## jabberwocky

mcsteve said:


> Agreements between Canada and US states allow for collection enforcement of gov’t issued fines and penalties. I am not in the know about these particular fines but there will likely be enforceable collection actions if they choose to ignore the fines. Many Canadians are have also been under the false assumption that fines Received in the US are not collectible, until they get a notice their license is suspended for failing to pay a speeding ticket obtained when driving in a US state.



Not all provinces have reciprocity agreements with US states.  Alberta doesn't have agreements on traffic violations or fines with US states to my knowledge (I know Ontario and Quebec do have some limited ones).  Heck, we don't have a Canada-wide reciprocity agreement between provinces on traffic violations!


----------



## moonstone

jabberwocky said:


> Not all provinces have reciprocity agreements with US states.  Alberta doesn't have agreements on traffic violations or fines with US states to my knowledge (I know Ontario and Quebec do have some limited ones).  Heck, we don't have a Canada-wide reciprocity agreement between provinces on traffic violations!



Yes, I cant find any information on Alberta and reciprocal agreements, unlike Ontario which has many.   I have heard from friends & family in Alberta that the RCMP are somehow tying the fines to the offenders passport and if they haven't paid the fine during their stay in Alberta they will be required to pay it before entering Canada the next time. I can't find proof of that anywhere but it sounds like a good idea. 


~Diane


----------



## PcflEZFlng

moonstone said:


> After our friends got unhooked and set up, Denis went up to the office to buy some firewood and there was an *RCMP cruiser parked at the office and an officer in talking to the Park Ranger. I guess some more arrogant Texans are getting a fine and hopefully escorted back to the border.* SMH
> ~Diane


Good.


----------



## MULTIZ321

Reopening the Canada-U.S. border wll be a long, piecemeal process I CBC News.




			https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/canada-u-s-border-pandemic-covid-coronavirus-1.5633650
		

.


Richard


----------



## Brett

“Canadians look at what’s happening with the spread of covid in the United States and their comparatively better performance at getting it under control,” said Edward Alden, a fellow at the Council on Foreign Relations. “And they have no interest at all in Americans coming to Canada.” 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...bfd3b0-b55c-11ea-a510-55bf26485c93_story.html


----------



## T-Dot-Traveller

I have not heard any complaints about the limitations on travel to the USA .

Happy Canada Day - # 153 / July 1 1867


----------



## CanuckTravlr

Canadians, unlike US citizens, may shortly be allowed to travel to the EU and four other European countries in the Schengen zone.  It will likely first require Canada to reciprocate by lifting its ban on non-essential, international travellers from the EU.  Travel to Ireland and the UK are not covered by this change.



			https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/european-union-travel-list-1.5632422


----------



## "Roger"

My wife and I currently have two trips to Europe planned. Obviously, both are in doubt. I had thought that there are some places in Canada that I wouldn't mind going back to. Ooops. 

While disappointing to me, I think, given the current conditions in the US, Europe and Canada are doing the right (wise) thing. Best of luck to them.


----------



## MULTIZ321

Canada's Sparrows Are Singing a New Song. You'll Hear it Soon.










						Canada’s Sparrows Are Singing a New Song. You’ll Hear It Soon.
					

Over 20 years, scientists tracked the transformation of the traditional trill of a common bird from western Canada to Ontario.




					www.nytimes.com
				



.


Richard


----------



## MULTIZ321

MULTIZ321 said:


> Canada's Sparrows Are Singing a New Song. You'll Hear it Soon.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Canada’s Sparrows Are Singing a New Song. You’ll Hear It Soon.
> 
> 
> Over 20 years, scientists tracked the transformation of the traditional trill of a common bird from western Canada to Ontario.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.nytimes.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> 
> Richard


A 'Viral ' New Bird Song in Canada is Causing Sparrows to Change Their Tune.










						A ‘Viral’ New Bird Song in Canada Is Causing Sparrows to Change Their Tune
					

A new bird song is spreading like wildfire among Canadian white-throated sparrows, at a scale not seen before by scientists.




					gizmodo.com
				



.


Richard


----------



## MULTIZ321

Most Canadians still want U.S. border to remain closed during coronavirus pandemic.




			https://www.bellinghamherald.com/news/coronavirus/article244153132.html
		



Richard


----------



## CanuckTravlr

That link seems to be broken, Richard.

I can confirm, in talking to family, friends and colleagues here, that the majority sentiment is to keep the border closed for the foreseeable future.  One of the largest early contributors to Covid-19 here was American visitors, together with Canadian business travellers and snowbirds returning to Canada from the USA, in February and March.

It has not gone unnoticed (with some bemusement) that the current biggest proponents of reopening the border are the congressmen of certain northern states whose economies depend to some degree on Canadian tourists.  Quite the change from just a few months ago when there were certain people demanding that the US put troops along the northern border, since it was considered a "national security threat"!

It's certainly not that we don't like you!!  I miss being able to visit with our American friends and family.  We would love to have you back again and be able to travel south of the border, too!  But we have spent a lot of time, money and effort (plus the sacrificed lives of many elderly and front-line workers) getting things relatively under control here.  With the current resurgence in the USA, there is very little appetite to undo that and introduce large numbers of American or other foreign visitors.

We have been fortunate to have had a relatively coordinated and consistent approach that has been embraced at both the national and provincial levels.  This has included programmes to help both businesses and people survive the lockdown financially.  It seems to have mostly worked, but we are certainly not without issues, especially as it relates to the tourist, restaurant and entertainment sectors.  We are just starting to experiment with how to re-open the economy again, while hopefully avoiding a resurgence of Covid-19.

With our much smaller population it would be easy for our system to be overwhelmed by potentially infected foreign visitors.  The numbers of Americans that we see claiming that they have a "constitutional right" to not wear masks and exercise proper physical distancing, is also very disconcerting.  We do have some of those types here, too, but they tend to get shouted down pretty quickly.  Their rights stop when they interfere with someone else's rights to live safely.

Very strange times.  I suspect we will be having to face a permanent "new normal", even after things get back to something even close to the "old normal".  How we handle the border issue is just one of those things.


----------



## MULTIZ321

CanuckTravlr said:


> That link seems to be broken, Richard.
> 
> I can confirm, in talking to family, friends and colleagues here, that the majority sentiment is to keep the border closed for the foreseeable future.  One of the largest early contributors to Covid-19 here was American visitors and Canadian snowbirds returning to Canada from the USA in February and March.
> 
> It has not gone unnoticed (with some bemusement) that the current biggest proponents of reopening the border are the congressmen of certain northern states whose economies depend to some degree on Canadian tourists.  Quite the change from just a few months ago when there were certain people demanding that the US put troops along the northern border, since it was considered a "national security threat"!
> 
> It's certainly not that we don't like you!!  I miss being able to visit with our American friends and family.  We would love to have you back again and be able to travel south of the border, too!  But we have spent a lot of time, money and effort (plus the sacrificed lives of many elderly and front-line workers) getting things relatively under control here.  With the current resurgence in the USA, there is very little appetite to undo that and introduce large numbers of American or other foreign visitors.
> 
> We have been fortunate to have had a relatively coordinated and consistent approach that has been embraced at both the national and provincial level.  This has included programmes to help both businesses and people survive the lockdown financially.  It seems to have mostly worked, but we are certainly not without issues, especially as it relates to the tourist, restaurant and entertainment sectors.  We are just starting to experiment with how to re-open the economy again, while hopefully avoiding a resurgence of Covid-19.
> 
> With our much smaller population it would be easy for our system to be overwhelmed by potentially infected foreign visitors.  The numbers of Americans that we see claiming that they have a "constitutional right" to not wear masks and exercise proper physical distancing, is also very disconcerting.  We do have some of those types here, too, but they tend to get shouted down pretty quickly.  Their rights stop when they interfere with someone else's rights to live safely.
> 
> Very strange times.  I suspect we will be having to face a permanent "new normal", even after things get back to something even close to the "old normal".  How we handle the border issue is just one of those things.


I updated the link - see if it works now.

Richard


----------



## CanuckTravlr

MULTIZ321 said:


> I updated the link - see if it works now.
> 
> Richard



Yes, thanks, it works now!!


----------



## CanuckTravlr

They just announced the latest extension of the closure of the Canada/US border to non-essential travellers.  The border will now remain closed until at least August 21st.  This is not unexpected, nor will it be surprising if there are further extensions.  The exemptions for immediate family members, announced in June, still apply.

The ban on non-US, non-essential visitors, is currently in place until July 31st.  It will not be surprising if that, too, is extended.  However, the recent opening up of several European, Caribbean and other countries to Canadians may have some impact on that decision, especially if there are reciprocity arrangements and Covid-19 is mostly under control.









						Canada, U.S. agree to keep borders closed another 30 days: sources
					

Canadian and U.S. officials have agreed to keep the border between the two countries closed to non-essential travel until August 21, CTV News has confirmed.



					www.ctvnews.ca


----------



## Retired!

CanuckTravlr said:


> That link seems to be broken, Richard.
> 
> I can confirm, in talking to family, friends and colleagues here, that the majority sentiment is to keep the border closed for the foreseeable future.  One of the largest early contributors to Covid-19 here was American visitors, together with Canadian business travellers and snowbirds returning to Canada from the USA, in February and March.
> 
> It has not gone unnoticed (with some bemusement) that the current biggest proponents of reopening the border are the congressmen of certain northern states whose economies depend to some degree on Canadian tourists.  Quite the change from just a few months ago when there were certain people demanding that the US put troops along the northern border, since it was considered a "national security threat"!
> 
> It's certainly not that we don't like you!!  I miss being able to visit with our American friends and family.  We would love to have you back again and be able to travel south of the border, too!  But we have spent a lot of time, money and effort (plus the sacrificed lives of many elderly and front-line workers) getting things relatively under control here.  With the current resurgence in the USA, there is very little appetite to undo that and introduce large numbers of American or other foreign visitors.
> 
> We have been fortunate to have had a relatively coordinated and consistent approach that has been embraced at both the national and provincial levels.  This has included programmes to help both businesses and people survive the lockdown financially.  It seems to have mostly worked, but we are certainly not without issues, especially as it relates to the tourist, restaurant and entertainment sectors.  We are just starting to experiment with how to re-open the economy again, while hopefully avoiding a resurgence of Covid-19.
> 
> With our much smaller population it would be easy for our system to be overwhelmed by potentially infected foreign visitors.  The numbers of Americans that we see claiming that they have a "constitutional right" to not wear masks and exercise proper physical distancing, is also very disconcerting.  We do have some of those types here, too, but they tend to get shouted down pretty quickly.  Their rights stop when they interfere with someone else's rights to live safely.
> 
> Very strange times.  I suspect we will be having to face a permanent "new normal", even after things get back to something even close to the "old normal".  How we handle the border issue is just one of those things.


----------



## Retired!

Canadians indeed are wary of travellers from outside their immediate area. We had to cancel a trip to the Maritime provinces this summer because we are from Ontario and not permitted into the Maritime bubble. We had also planned on travelling to our timeshare in the US later this summer to meet up with our daughter and her family who live in the US, but Air Canada cancelled the direct flight. Our American grandkids are not allowed into Canada under the current definition of family exceptions---so think it will be a long time, unfortunately, before tourists in general will be able to enter Canada easily.


----------



## Fredflintstone

CanuckTravlr said:


> That link seems to be broken, Richard.
> 
> I can confirm, in talking to family, friends and colleagues here, that the majority sentiment is to keep the border closed for the foreseeable future. One of the largest early contributors to Covid-19 here was American visitors, together with Canadian business travellers and snowbirds returning to Canada from the USA, in February and March.
> 
> It has not gone unnoticed (with some bemusement) that the current biggest proponents of reopening the border are the congressmen of certain northern states whose economies depend to some degree on Canadian tourists. Quite the change from just a few months ago when there were certain people demanding that the US put troops along the northern border, since it was considered a "national security threat"!
> 
> It's certainly not that we don't like you!! I miss being able to visit with our American friends and family. We would love to have you back again and be able to travel south of the border, too! But we have spent a lot of time, money and effort (plus the sacrificed lives of many elderly and front-line workers) getting things relatively under control here. With the current resurgence in the USA, there is very little appetite to undo that and introduce large numbers of American or other foreign visitors.
> 
> We have been fortunate to have had a relatively coordinated and consistent approach that has been embraced at both the national and provincial levels. This has included programmes to help both businesses and people survive the lockdown financially. It seems to have mostly worked, but we are certainly not without issues, especially as it relates to the tourist, restaurant and entertainment sectors. We are just starting to experiment with how to re-open the economy again, while hopefully avoiding a resurgence of Covid-19.
> 
> With our much smaller population it would be easy for our system to be overwhelmed by potentially infected foreign visitors. The numbers of Americans that we see claiming that they have a "constitutional right" to not wear masks and exercise proper physical distancing, is also very disconcerting. We do have some of those types here, too, but they tend to get shouted down pretty quickly. Their rights stop when they interfere with someone else's rights to live safely.
> 
> Very strange times. I suspect we will be having to face a permanent "new normal", even after things get back to something even close to the "old normal". How we handle the border issue is just one of those things.



I think you are bang on here. What’s interesting is Americans are being allowed to enter Canada if they say they are enroute to Alaska. However, many have been fined for stating they are enroute to Alaska but found to be camping and hiking in BC and Alberta Parks. Are they going to close that loophole? Well, it’s wait and see.

I don’t see travelling to the US until at least 2021. That’s why I cancelled my December Hawaii trip. Personally, I may not travel out of Canada until we have a vaccine. To me, a vacation does not include masking/gloving up, staying 6 feet away from anyone, quarantining in my room for 2 weeks. I would rather stay home. 

What I have sure noticed here is a huge rise of people camping and hiking in the Parks. I drive through Kananaskis Country (west of Calgary, Alberta) the other day and the cars parked on the side of the road to hike were unbelievable. 

Although I am getting travel fever, I know waiting is best until the coast is clear. I’ll just keep saving my travel money and be sure to do a long trip once this is all over.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## AJCts411

I was looking at the border to reopen sooner rather than later both for personal and business travel.   With the opening recently extended until at least late August, and with the covid on the USA side as it is, the common belief in my circle is that even a September 21 is doubtful.  I think we will hear the rumblings of this early in September.  I've canceled my 39 & 40 Key West weeks.  But I held on to the flight (until September) should things improve unexpectedly.  I expect here will be plenty of availability to rent. 

I personally don't lay blame on Americans or snowbirds bring in Coivd because I don't this is factual to the extend some have expressed.   Certainly there were some, but I do blame those who traveled to the epicenter willfully for their personal reasons.   Those Americans on the way to Alaska, that bent the entry rules...well they paid a hefty price, but just too bad the fines were not 10 fold more.  

As this epidemic continues, we have also put on hold our 2021 winter vacations, as have many others classifed as snowbirds.   That's going to be a big hit on those host communities and what I fear will be the basis of a push by the USA politicians to open the boarders prematurely.   In any case, I'd say the onuis is on the individual to do thier part to keep themselves safe and by extension their community if you travel.


----------



## jabberwocky

Some insurers are starting to offer Covid coverage for Canadian travellers. (May be behind paywall)










						Insurers offer out-of-country medical coverage amid COVID-19 pandemic
					

Medipac Travel Insurance and the Canadian Association of Blue Cross have both restored medical emergency coverage for the novel coronavirus in their travel insurance policies this month




					www.theglobeandmail.com


----------



## cman

No country should allow american tourists at this point. I'm American, and can assure you that we don't have a plan or strategy to get this thing under control. The second that Canada opens its borders, Americans will flock there and spread the virus. We're so deranged, that we've made mask wearing a political statement. Now, you Canadians are more than welcome to visit, but it's not in your best interest to let us cross your borders. We've lost our collective minds. Be safe.


----------



## Retired!

cman said:


> No country should allow american tourists at this point. I'm American, and can assure you that we don't have a plan or strategy to get this thing under control. The second that Canada opens its borders, Americans will flock there and spread the virus. We're so deranged, that we've made mask wearing a political statement. Now, you Canadians are more than welcome to visit, but it's not in your best interest to let us cross your borders. We've lost our collective minds. Be safe.


Well I think the tale is not completely told yet in Canada --we have recently begun more openings in various parts of the country and numbers are upticking. Hopefully, we will be able to curtail any huge upticks but we are not out of the woods.


----------



## CanuckTravlr

Retired! said:


> Well I think the tale is not completely told yet in Canada --we have recently begun more openings in various parts of the country and numbers are upticking. Hopefully, we will be able to curtail any huge upticks but we are not out of the woods.



I would tend to agree.  We have done reasonably well up until now with getting Covid-19 under control, so at least we are starting from a better place generally than in the USA as we begin to open up.  However, the seemingly clueless, selfish element is not totally absent here either, so we can't be complacent.

There are upticks in cases in many areas of the country as they have moved to open up the economy and ease restrictions.  Things like the weekend jamming of Trinity Bellwoods Park here in Toronto, crowding at Wasaga Beach on Georgian Bay, mass camping in the mountains of Alberta, and a crowded drum circle on a beach in Vancouver.  Now that Ottawa has just recently moved to phase 3, it was followed by more new cases than either Toronto or Peel Region, both of which are larger municipalities but still in phase 2!  

And then there is this clip from Saturday from the amusement area of Clifton Hill in Niagara Falls (Ontario), which shows mostly younger people, very few of them exercising proper physical distancing and almost none wearing masks.  I don't know whether they think they are immune, invincible, or just don't care, but their behaviour reeks of self-absorption and is very exasperating.  No wonder authorities are frustrated.   









						Videos show massive crowds on Clifton Hill in Niagara Falls last weekend
					

Videos that emerged online of crowds appearing to ignore physical distancing guidelines at Niagara Falls have sparked concerns about visiting the popular tourist destination.




					www.cp24.com


----------



## MULTIZ321

Once Canada's oil relief valve, rail shipping grinds to near halt.










						Once Canada's oil relief valve, rail shipping grinds to near halt
					

After moving record-large Canadian oil volumes by rail just five months ago, shippers have hit the brakes, idling thousands of cars and tens of millions of dollars' worth of infrastructure.




					www.reuters.com
				




Richard


----------



## bizaro86

MULTIZ321 said:


> Once Canada's oil relief valve, rail shipping grinds to near halt.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.reuters.com/article/us-global-oil-canada-railways-analysis/once-canadas-oil-relief-valve-rail-shipping-grinds-to-near-halt-idUSKCN24T2
> 
> 
> .
> 
> Richard



The link didn't work for me. I think rail shipments of oil have ended for now because given all the shut-in there is enough pipeline space to move the current production?


----------



## MULTIZ321

bizaro86 said:


> The link didn't work for me. I think rail shipments of oil have ended for now because given all the shut-in there is enough pipeline space to move the current production?


I updated the link - it should work now.


Richard


----------



## CanuckTravlr

MULTIZ321 said:


> Once Canada's oil relief valve, rail shipping grinds to near halt.
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.reuters.com/article/us-global-oil-canada-railways-analysis/once-canadas-oil-relief-valve-rail-shipping-grinds-to-near-halt-idUSKCN24T2
> 
> 
> .
> 
> Richard



Hi Richard.  I agree with bizaro86.  The oil industry in Canada has been significantly impacted for awhile, due partly to the current low price per barrel.  This is further affected by the reduced demand, not only domestically but internationally, with so many people not travelling and/or working from home.

Rail is often a "secondary" method of oil transportation, when pipelines are already at capacity.  As the oil sands production increased, they started working to expand the pipeline network and capacity.  But with less demand, there is less need for rail shipments.  In any case, rail transport of petroleum products has traditionally represented less than 10% of total rail shipments in Canada.  Grain and agricultural products typically account for more than double the rail tonnage of oil.  Nevertheless, it still has a significant impact on the railways and their profitability, plus those companies that own or lease oil cars or are involved in the transport of oil by rail.

The most recent statistics I could find from Statistics Canada cover the period from 2014 to 2018.  The chart below shows the amounts by sector, transported by rail, in metric tonnes.



			https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/t1/tbl1/en/tv.action?pid=2310006201
		


Edited:  Thanks, Richard.  The link works now.


----------



## MULTIZ321

CanuckTravlr said:


> Hi Richard.  I agree with bizaro86.  The oil industry in Canada has been significantly impacted for awhile, due partly to the current low price per barrel.  This is further affected by the reduced demand, not only domestically but internationally, with so many people not travelling and/or working from home.
> 
> Rail is often a "secondary" method of oil transportation, when pipelines are already at capacity.  As the oil sands production increased, they started working to expand the pipeline network and capacity.  But with less demand, there is less need for rail shipments.  In any case, rail transport of petroleum products has traditionally represented less than 10% of total rail shipments in Canada.  Grain and agricultural products typically account for more than double the rail tonnage of oil.  Nevertheless, it still has a significant impact on the railways and their profitability, plus those companies that own or lease oil cars or are involved in the transport of oil by rail.
> 
> The most recent statistics I could find from Statistics Canada cover the period from 2014 to 2018.  The chart below shows the amounts by sector, transported by rail, in metric tonnes.
> 
> 
> 
> https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/t1/tbl1/en/tv.action?pid=2310006201
> 
> 
> 
> Edited:  Thanks, Richard.  The link works now.


SUGAR -  Is that Beet Sugar?


----------



## CanuckTravlr

MULTIZ321 said:


> SUGAR -  Is that Beet Sugar?



Almost all of our sugar comes from raw sugar cane.  Historically it was imported from the Caribbean and other southern climates, up the St. Lawrence River and Seaway, to large sugar refineries in Montreal and Toronto.  And yes, some of that sugar cane comes from Cuba!  Once refined, it could then be shipped by rail all over the country in bulk carriers.  We only have a small sugar beet industry, mostly in Alberta.  Sugar cane also comes into Vancouver now, where there is a refinery, from as far away as Australia.

https://sugar.ca/International-Trade/Canadian-Sugar-Industry/Canadian-sugar-today.aspx


----------



## MULTIZ321

CanuckTravlr said:


> Almost all of our sugar comes from raw sugar cane.  Historically it was imported from the Caribbean and other southern climates, up the St. Lawrence River and Seaway to large sugar refineries in Montreal and Toronto.  And yes, some of that sugar cane comes from Cuba!  Once refined, it could then be shipped by rail all over the country in bulk carriers.  We only have a small sugar beet industry, mostly in Alberta.  Sugar cane also comes into Vancouver now, where there is a refinery, from as far away as Australia.
> 
> https://sugar.ca/International-Trade/Canadian-Sugar-Industry/Canadian-sugar-today.aspx


Thanks for the update. Love learning about Canada on Tug.

Richard


----------



## DannyTS

this is going to be a very cold and long winter for many









						Air Transat cancels most winter flights out of Western Canada due to COVID-19 pandemic  | Globalnews.ca
					

Air Transat said it is scrubbing routes that were slated to take off from Winnipeg, Calgary, Edmonton, Vancouver and Victoria.




					globalnews.ca


----------



## moonstone

DannyTS said:


> this is going to be a very cold and long winter for many
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Air Transat cancels most winter flights out of Western Canada due to COVID-19 pandemic  | Globalnews.ca
> 
> 
> Air Transat said it is scrubbing routes that were slated to take off from Winnipeg, Calgary, Edmonton, Vancouver and Victoria.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> globalnews.ca



Yes, we are afraid we might not be going to Belize this winter even though the country seems to have the virus transmission under control. We are not looking forward to an additional 3 months of snow and cold.  We have friends who purchased a large travel trailer last fall and took it to Florida to leave it at an RV resort so they can fly back and forth. They only used it for a total of 5 weeks after getting it down there and hoped to spend 3 or 4 months in the trailer this winter since they are retiring this fall. They doubt they'll be going to Florida and are now realizing if they still had their trailer up here they could be using it all this summer while working 'from home'.


~Diane


----------



## MULTIZ321

Canada cracks down on those traveling through the country to get to Alaska.










						Canada cracks down on those traveling through the country to get to Alaska
					

People who choose to travel to Alaska through Canada are facing stricter rules starting Friday.




					www.cnn.com
				





Richard


----------



## AJCts411

Hardly a crackdown.  The Government is enforcing the rules, and with that a better way to identify the transients.  There were a very small few that previously bent and broke the rules...as far as one can tell one received a heft fine.  IMO All this kind of reporting, and there is plenty over here,  is doing is creating the reasoning for those USA plated cars, here legally like relatives, essential workers to be confronted or vandalized by the brainless.     

Air Transat...looks like they are increasing the funneling of travelers to Toronto or Montreal hubs.   In all probability, there are not sufficient passengers to fill the flights from all cities.   We used AT at least one a year before the covid and have met vacationers at our destinations from the west flying via Toronto and Montreal.  These are locations that only have once or twice a week flights.   Checking our destinations, the cost of the flights are a less than last year, the big difference I notice is in the premiums for the upgrades...this cost seems to be a better deal now.  Certainly would like to return this winter, but with the lack of health care (to our standards) and the pressure on  local governments to re-open the (major economy) tourist trade, thats gong to be a wait and see.  

Rumors have it (from our boarder town)...the Canada/USA boarder may re-open Aug 21st.  For personal and business reasons I welcome this, but for health reasons...I'm on the fence only because some selfish people cannot make the right decisions.


----------



## moonstone

MULTIZ321 said:


> Canada cracks down on those traveling through the country to get to Alaska.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Canada cracks down on those traveling through the country to get to Alaska
> 
> 
> People who choose to travel to Alaska through Canada are facing stricter rules starting Friday.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.cnn.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Richard



I read that yesterday and wonder how they are going to enforce that hang tag ID?  I can see people ripping it off a few miles from the border and telling people who ask that they've been in the Province/Canada for many weeks. Is the computer at the border going to keep track of license plates to see if they exit at the Alaskan border a few days later? And if they don't show up, will it give their information to the police to watch for them?
It seems like a good idea on paper but I don't know how practical it is.


~Diane


----------



## CanuckTravlr

As a former Customs and Immigration officer (many years ago), let's give some benefit of intelligence to those in charge for figuring out a way to do this that allows tracking of any non-compliant travellers.  This is a reasonable additional measure to prevent the few dishonest travellers from abusing the system.  According to the article below, there have been six Americans fined for the violations in Banff National Park and another six for quarantine violations in British Columbia.









						Canada cracking down on Americans entering country to get to Alaska
					

Canada has announced new restrictions against Americans entering the country in an attempt to crack down on the so-called 'Alaska loophole.'



					www.ctvnews.ca
				




The new system is a hang-tag that goes on the rear-view mirror inside the car.  It must be handed back to a CBSA officer before leaving Canada and re-entering the USA.  It has a date on it to remind the traveller of the date they are expected to leave Canada.  I assume the tags have some sort of identifier, such as a number or code, to match to CBSA records.  This would normally be linked to the licence plate and passport information of the driver, which has been collected for some time.  In addition, Alaskan transit entry/exit on the southern border is now restricted to five border crossings, one each in Saskatchewan and Alberta and three in British Columbia.






						Travel History Report
					

A Travel History Report is a record of a traveller’s entries into Canada.




					www.cbsa-asfc.gc.ca
				





With respect to the so-called "over-reporting" of these violators, let's get real.  News reports the unusual, not the usual.  I also don't agree with people taking the law into their own hands on cars with American plates.  But let's not over-hype the number of people acting out in that way either!!  IMO, most of these are due to a small, often vocal, self-righteous minority.  The news reports also helped educate people on the many reasons someone with an American plate might legitimately be present in Canada.

In Ontario, it didn't even have to be out-of-province plates.  Here, people going to their summer homes in "cottage country" were getting similar reactions, even with Ontario plates, if their licence plates had brackets from Toronto-area dealers!!  This despite the fact, that in many cottage area counties, the cottage owners pay most of the property taxes!!  There is no accounting for the lunatic fringe, but let's not overplay their impact and encourage them in their self-righteousness.


----------



## MULTIZ321

Canada's last fully intact ice shelf has suddenly collapsed, forming a Manhattan-sized iceberg 











						Canada's last fully intact ice shelf has suddenly collapsed, forming a Manhattan-sized iceberg
					

The 4,000-year-old ice shelf fell apart at the end of July as summer temperatures soared, scientists said.




					www.businessinsider.com
				



.


Richard


----------



## am1

Why even let Americans in who are traveling to Alaska.  They can use a ship or plane.


----------



## moonstone

am1 said:


> Why even let Americans in who are traveling to Alaska.  They can use a ship or plane.



There are no cruise ships running right now, or the foreseeable future, and many of those who are travelling thru to Alaska are in RV's which is the most scenic way to see the country. If people flew to Alaska they'd need to rent a car and hotel rooms and eat in restaurants, not so with an RV.  There seemed to be a lot of Americans just using the excuse that they were travelling to Alaska (which is allowed) but they were really just wanting to vacation in Alberta or BC.  I did hear a report of a couple from some mid-west state who were trying to cross the border at Niagara Falls by saying they were on their way to to Alaska. They were asked why they came so far east to go west and had no answer -they were refused entry into Canada. 


~Diane


----------



## am1

moonstone said:


> There are no cruise ships running right now, or the foreseeable future, and many of those who are travelling thru to Alaska are in RV's which is the most scenic way to see the country. If people flew to Alaska they'd need to rent a car and hotel rooms and eat in restaurants, not so with an RV.  There seemed to be a lot of Americans just using the excuse that they were travelling to Alaska (which is allowed) but they were really just wanting to vacation in Alberta or BC.  I did hear a report of a couple from some mid-west state who were trying to cross the border at Niagara Falls by saying they were on their way to to Alaska. They were asked why they came so far east to go west and had no answer -they were refused entry into Canada.
> 
> 
> ~Diane



Passenger ships could be used. Why does Canada need to accommodate RVer or people who would have to rent a car, hotel room in Alaska.  If its too much of issue they can choose to not go. My solution solves the problem.


----------



## moonstone

am1 said:


> Passenger ships could be used. Why does Canada need to accommodate RVer or people who would have to rent a car, hotel room in Alaska.  If its too much of issue they can choose to not go. My solution solves the problem.



Canada doesn't need to accommodate people but right at the start of all this Covid stuff both Canada and the USA said neither of them would prohibit their citizens from returning to their own country.  It's called being good neighbours.  So even if an American doesn't live in Alaska, Canada wont forbid them from going there, but they are supposed to go directly to Alaska, not sightsee or shop along the way. It is just unfortunate that Alaska isn't attached to the rest of the USA and the only way to drive there is thru BC. 

Similarly when we & fellow Canadians were caught in Mexico or parts of the Caribbean at the start of the shut down, the USA allowed us to take a flight that connected in the USA, or for others, drive (in a car or RV) thru the USA to get home to Canada. We were not allowed to stay and sightsee or shop along the way. I know of RV'ers who were denied overnight parking in campgrounds during their drive home from Florida due to their Canadian license plates. The US didn't force any Canadians to fly over the country instead of driving thru it, and Canada is doing the same.  People just need to follow/obey they rules. 


~Diane


----------



## am1

moonstone said:


> Canada doesn't need to accommodate people but right at the start of all this Covid stuff both Canada and the USA said neither of them would prohibit their citizens from returning to their own country.  It's called being good neighbours.  So even if an American doesn't live in Alaska, Canada wont forbid them from going there, but they are supposed to go directly to Alaska, not sightsee or shop along the way. It is just unfortunate that Alaska isn't attached to the rest of the USA and the only way to drive there is thru BC.
> 
> Similarly when we & fellow Canadians were caught in Mexico or parts of the Caribbean at the start of the shut down, the USA allowed us to take a flight that connected in the USA, or for others, drive (in a car or RV) thru the USA to get home to Canada. We were not allowed to stay and sightsee or shop along the way. I know of RV'ers who were denied overnight parking in campgrounds during their drive home from Florida due to their Canadian license plates. The US didn't force any Canadians to fly over the country instead of driving thru it, and Canada is doing the same.  People just need to follow/obey they rules.
> 
> 
> ~Diane



It is very fortunate that Alaska is not connected the of the USA.  A transcontinental railroad was built to prevent that if I remember high school history correctly.  Sea to Shining Sea to Shining Sea.  

Getting people to follow the rules is the problem. Give people an inch and they want a mile.  Next people traveling between the lower 48 and Alaska will want to bring in their hand guns and assault rifles.  

If I was PM I would have closed the border to all no essential travel of foreigners.


----------



## AJCts411

am1 said:


> It is very fortunate that Alaska is not connected the of the USA.  A transcontinental railroad was built to prevent that if I remember high school history correctly.  Sea to Shining Sea to Shining Sea.
> 
> Getting people to follow the rules is the problem. Give people an inch and they want a mile.  Next people traveling between the lower 48 and Alaska will want to bring in their hand guns and assault rifles.
> 
> If I was PM I would have closed the border to all no essential travel of foreigners.




In fact those entering Canada and those traveling thought to Alaska can fill out a form an legally bring their guns into Canada and though Canada.   Chastising everyone, labeling them as all the same and responding in that manner is not fair or just.  The very few...handful...breaking the rules are being dealt with.   Seems that these few incidents are being over reported upon for a political outcome.  For me, its open the boarder when it is deemed reasonable for health reasons, not political, and the sooner the better.


----------



## am1

AJCts411 said:


> In fact those entering Canada and those traveling thought to Alaska can fill out a form an legally bring their guns into Canada and though Canada.   Chastising everyone, labeling them as all the same and responding in that manner is not fair or just.  The very few...handful...breaking the rules are being dealt with.   Seems that these few incidents are being over reported upon for a political outcome.  For me, its open the boarder when it is deemed reasonable for health reasons, not political, and the sooner the better.



I will disagree that it is right that people traveling to Alaska through Canada can bring hand guns an else into the country if they would otherwise would not be allowed to.  Proper permits for rifles, shotguns, historical guns and even competition pistols are ok to me.  Other wise ship them direct.  It is political that non Canadians/residents are able to travel from the mainland USA to Alaska through Canada.  And it is a shame.


----------



## jabberwocky

I think we should be neighbourly and provide a right of passage for those needing to go between the US mainland and Alaska. It’s just a decent thing to do.  

By all means enforce the rules, but just because someone is from the US doesn’t mean they are packing heat, infected with Covid and going to vacation in Banff. Most Americans do follow the rules and are respectful.


----------



## am1

jabberwocky said:


> I think we should be neighbourly and provide a right of passage for those needing to go between the US mainland and Alaska. It’s just a decent thing to do.
> 
> By all means enforce the rules, but just because someone is from the US doesn’t mean they are packing heat, infected with Covid and going to vacation in Banff. Most Americans do follow the rules and are respectful.



Even if you are right what if the definition of someone needing to go to Alaska or the mainland by car?  Maybe a 14 day solo quaratine upon entering Canada?  Remember the Blue Jays have been playing home games on the road and now in Buffalo, loved ones have had to have picnics in the ditch between the two countries with or without being able to touch each other for months now and the Canadian government just lets in people "needing" to go to Alaska?  A joke all around.


----------



## jabberwocky

am1 said:


> Even if you are right what if the definition of someone needing to go to Alaska or the mainland by car?  Maybe a 14 day solo quaratine upon entering Canada?  Remember the Blue Jays have been playing home games on the road and now in Buffalo, loved ones have had to have picnics in the ditch between the two countries with or without being able to touch each other for months now and the Canadian government just lets in people "needing" to go to Alaska?  A joke all around.


What good would a 14 day quarantine do for those transiting through?  To me that would raise risks by increasing the number of interactions they have in Canada. 

Perhaps the most disturbing thing about this pandemic is that we seem to forget basic human values which include being a warm and welcoming people to people from “elsewhere”. This pervasive fear of outsiders leads to tires being slashed, car windows smashed and harassing people because they have out-of-province plates. Unfortunately, we don’t have many willing to publicly stand up and challenge this repulsive behaviour.

I trust that border officials can make the correct call on who to admit or deny entry to based on the current rules, and right now those rules say transit to Alaska is permitted.


----------



## am1

jabberwocky said:


> What good would a 14 day quarantine do for those transiting through?  To me that would raise risks by increasing the number of interactions they have in Canada.
> 
> Perhaps the most disturbing thing about this pandemic is that we seem to forget basic human values which include being a warm and welcoming people to people from “elsewhere”. This pervasive fear of outsiders leads to tire being slashed, car windows smashed and harassing people because they have out-of-province plates. Unfortunately, we don’t have many willing to publicly stand up and challenge this repulsive behaviour.
> 
> I trust that border officials can make the correct call on who to admit or deny entry to based on the current rules, and right now those rules say transit to Alaska is permitted.



No a 14 day quarantine would be a hotel room at best and then meals delivered and thats it.  Transiting through Canada from the mainland USA to Alaska or verse is a lot longer than the 6 hour limit Panama will allow this Friday for stopovers.  

It is all a matter of opinion but where I am people were limited to crossing a 100 metre bridge for 3 months (me included even though I have a beach house  20 minutes away).  I could cross to visit my farm and farm related activities that were needed.  It has been 5 months where people in other parts of the country have been limited to leaving for 2 hours/ 3 times a week but men just 2 hours 2 times a week.  All based on sex and last digit of ID.  Set police check points every 100 000 people in an area and maybe you would feel differently as well.  
 No liquor sales for 2 months.  

If  it is such an issue maybe the USA should sell Alaska at cost to Canada.


----------



## moonstone

This afternoon it was announced that the Canadian / US border will remain closed until September 21st except for essential or commercial traffic.  
I would be surprised if it even opens then. 

~Diane


----------



## Retired!

jabberwocky said:


> What good would a 14 day quarantine do for those transiting through?  To me that would raise risks by increasing the number of interactions they have in Canada.
> 
> Perhaps the most disturbing thing about this pandemic is that we seem to forget basic human values which include being a warm and welcoming people to people from “elsewhere”. This pervasive fear of outsiders leads to tires being slashed, car windows smashed and harassing people because they have out-of-province plates. Unfortunately, we don’t have many willing to publicly stand up and challenge this repulsive behaviour.
> 
> I trust that border officials can make the correct call on who to admit or deny entry to based on the current rules, and right now those rules say transit to Alaska is permitted.


I absolutely agree-- I worry about the long -term effect that this COVID -bred xenophobia that seems very acceptable at the moment , will have. Not always easy to undo attitudes.


----------



## jabberwocky

So here is a question for Canadian constitutional lawyers (if there are any in TUG land). 

My questions are: does the privy council still function while parliament is prorogued? 

If it does still function, can an order-in-council be published while parliament is prorogued?

The reason I ask is because the current travel ban from the US will expire on Sept 21. The register also states that the quarantine requirements are in effect until August 31 (not sure if this was extended since the last extension on July 30 - it’s not published if it was.)


----------



## "Roger"

With regard to the Canadians cracking down on Americans violating the ban on lingering in Canada while supposedly just travelling through.









						A Kentucky man is facing $569,000 in fines after being accused of violating Canada's COVID-19 rules
					

John Pennington, 40, of Walton, Kentucky, was arrested and charged in connection to a June trip he took to Banff in Alberta, Canada.




					news.yahoo.com
				




Note: The headline suggests the man is facing a $569,000 fine. I seriously doubt that he will have to pay anything close to that. He is, however, in more than usual trouble in that he stayed on even after having been caught once.

Second note: I love the picture at the top of the article in that I have a picture taken from almost the identical spot (taken before the travel ban, of course).


----------



## CanuckTravlr

"Roger" said:


> With regard to the Canadians cracking down on Americans violating the ban on lingering in Canada while supposedly just travelling through.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A Kentucky man is facing $569,000 in fines after being accused of violating Canada's COVID-19 rules
> 
> 
> John Pennington, 40, of Walton, Kentucky, was arrested and charged in connection to a June trip he took to Banff in Alberta, Canada.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> news.yahoo.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Note: The headline suggests the man is facing a $569,000 fine. I seriously doubt that he will have to pay anything close to that. He is, however, in more than usual trouble in that he stayed on even after having been caught once.
> 
> Second note: I love the picture at the top of the article in that I have a picture taken from almost the identical spot (taken before the travel ban, of course).



Yeah, this guy was pretty brazen about disobeying the rules.  Caught two days in a row.  Most have gotten the message after the first charge.  He is either a bit dense or thinks he is a law-unto-himself.  The US article did not get the fine or imprisonment information fully correct, but you're right, he won't get anywhere near the maximum.  However, he will also likely have trouble ever entering Canada again.

The first fine was a provincial offence under the Alberta Health Act, which is typically what they have been doing.  It is sort of a "warning" with a penalty attached to reinforce the point.  In this case, after the second offence, he was charged under the emergency provisions of the federal Quarantine Act, which has much larger penalties and is a more serious offence.

Anyone convicted of disobeying an order under the Quarantine Act is liable "to a fine of not more than $750,000 or imprisonment for not more than six *months [not years] *or both".  If it can be shown that he "caused serious bodily harm or imminent death as a result of willfully or recklessly contravening the Act", then the maximum penalties go to $1,000,000 or three *years* in prison or both.


----------



## am1

Should be punished to the full extent of the law.  
Goes back to not letting any non Canadians in if they are suppose to continue on to Alaska.  Or put up a large bond to gurantee.  No one to blame other then the ones that allowed these people to enter.


----------



## CanuckTravlr

am1 said:


> Should be punished to the full extent of the law.
> Goes back to not letting any non Canadians in if they are suppose to continue on to Alaska.  Or put up a large bond to gurantee.  No one to blame other then the ones that allowed these people to enter.



Really???  The ones who allowed him to enter are to blame?  There is a legal agreement between Canada and the US to allow transit between the contiguous states and Alaska.  CBSA is abiding by that and the controls that are in place seem to be working.  He was caught.  Twice!!  He is a jerk, but is an isolated case and he has been apprehended and is being dealt with by the courts.  Sounds to me like the system is working!!


----------



## am1

CanuckTravlr said:


> Really???  The ones who allowed him to enter are to blame?  There is a legal agreement between Canada and the US to allow transit between the contiguous states and Alaska.  CBSA is abiding by that and the controls that are in place seem to be working.  He was caught.  Twice!!  He is a jerk, but is an isolated case and he has been apprehended and is being dealt with by the courts.  Sounds to me like the system is working!!



Not an isolated case and these are different times then normal. What benefit does Canada get from that agreement?  What about Niagara Falls to Detroit through Canada as it could be faster. 

Yes blame the people that allowed it as the people who are doing it cannot be trusted and that should have been anticipated.


----------



## CanuckTravlr

am1 said:


> Not an isolated case and these are different times then normal. What benefit does Canada get from that agreement?  What about Niagara Falls to Detroit through Canada as it could be faster.
> 
> Yes blame the people that allowed it as the people who are doing it cannot be trusted and that should have been anticipated.



I will continue to disagree with you, since it *is* an isolated incident and there is a process in place to catch violators, whether you want to believe it or not.  Do you have any proof to the contrary?

Since you seem to feel very strongly about this "problem", how did your discussion with your MP go on this issue?  If you really want change, that's where it has to start.


----------



## AJCts411

am1 said:


> Not an isolated case and these are different times then normal. What benefit does Canada get from that agreement?  What about Niagara Falls to Detroit through Canada as it could be faster.
> 
> Yes blame the people that allowed it as the people who are doing it cannot be trusted and that should have been anticipated.



Niagara Falls to Detroit...simple fact is there is an alternative land route.  

Perhaps you should investigate how greatly Canada benefits from a trading relationship with the USA.


----------



## am1

AJCts411 said:


> Niagara Falls to Detroit...simple fact is there is an alternative land route.
> 
> Perhaps you should investigate how greatly Canada benefits from a trading relationship with the USA.



There is a land route but what if one is faster?  Niagara Falls - Port Huron. That trade relationship goes both ways and those yahoos are putting it a risk with their actions.


----------



## MULTIZ321

Nearly 1,000 flights in Canada have carried COVID-positive passengers since February.









						Nearly 1,000 flights in Canada have carried COVID-positive passengers since February
					

Nearly 1,000 flights in Canada have carried at least one COVID-positive passenger since February, according to figures CTV News obtained from the Public Health Agency of Canada.




					www.ctvnews.ca
				



.
.
Richard


----------



## DannyTS

MULTIZ321 said:


> Nearly 1,000 flights in Canada have carried COVID-positive passengers since February.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nearly 1,000 flights in Canada have carried COVID-positive passengers since February
> 
> 
> Nearly 1,000 flights in Canada have carried at least one COVID-positive passenger since February, according to figures CTV News obtained from the Public Health Agency of Canada.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.ctvnews.ca
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> .
> Richard


Remember, studies show that tests are oversensitive, probably 90% of the positive results should be negative.


----------



## Blues

DannyTS said:


> Remember, studies show that tests are oversensitive, probably 90% of the positive results should be negative.



Citation?


----------



## CanuckTravlr

An American family of four travelling from Alaska to Washington State violated the conditions of their transit through Canada.  When they were overdue for their exit at the BC/Washington border, the police went looking for them.  They were found in Vancouver and immediately escorted by the RCMP to the border.  They also earned a $500 CAD fine for each of the four family members and likely a ban from re-entering Canada.  So the new tracking system seems to be working for any Americans trying to pull the "Alaska loophole".









						Vacationing American family escorted out of B.C. for exploiting 'Alaska loophole', police say
					

An American family has been escorted across the B.C. border into Washington state after being caught apparently exploiting the "Alaska loophole," according to BC RCMP.



					bc.ctvnews.ca


----------



## cman

CanuckTravlr said:


> An American family of four travelling from Alaska to Washington State violated the conditions of their transit through Canada.  When they were overdue for their exit at the BC/Washington border, the police went looking for them.  They were found in Vancouver and immediately escorted by the RCMP to the border.  They also earned a $500 CAD fine for each of the four family members and likely a ban from re-entering Canada.  So the new tracking system seems to be working for any Americans trying to pull the "Alaska loophole".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vacationing American family escorted out of B.C. for exploiting 'Alaska loophole', police say
> 
> 
> An American family has been escorted across the B.C. border into Washington state after being caught apparently exploiting the "Alaska loophole," according to BC RCMP.
> 
> 
> 
> bc.ctvnews.ca


My fellow Americans leave me shaking my head. Good work on the part of the RCMP on tracking them down and giving them the boot. Good enforcement of your laws is probably your best option at this point. As things stand now, Canadians can fly to and transit through anywhere in the USA. The day after you close the "Alaska Loophole", you'll most likely lose that ability. Hopefully, cases like these are exceptions and not the norm. But at the end of the day, Canadians have to do what's safe for Canadians.


----------



## CanuckTravlr

cman said:


> My fellow Americans leave me shaking my head. Good work on the part of the RCMP on tracking them down and giving them the boot. Good enforcement of your laws is probably your best option at this point. As things stand now, Canadians can fly to and transit through anywhere in the USA. The day after you close the "Alaska Loophole", you'll most likely lose that ability. Hopefully, cases like these are exceptions and not the norm. But at the end of the day, Canadians have to do what's safe for Canadians.



Fortunately, most Americans doing a legal transit between Alaska and the contiguous States follow the rules and transit safely and legally.  The example cited in the article is is one of the rare exceptions.  Not quite sure I follow what you mean when you say that "the day after you close the "Alaska Loophole", you'll most likely lose that ability"?

The ability for Americans to transit by land between the contiguous States and Alaska, or vice versa, is governed under a long-standing legal agreement.  Neither country has any interest in changing that.  It's not a loophole, it's being good neighbours.  The "Alaska Loophole" refers only to those few Americans choosing to lie and say that is what they are doing, when what they really intend to do is to enter Canada to vacation here.  It is already closed. 

And yes, while the land border crossings are closed in both directions for all non-essential travel, Canadians can fly to and transit through the USA.  Americans, like other international travellers, can also transit through Canada on their way to and from other countries when flying, they just can't leave the secure air-side part of the airport.  The real problem is they have no where to transit to, since most other countries do not currently allow Americans to fly there!

As to Canadians who choose to fly out of the country, whether to the USA or elsewhere, they are still subject to a full 14-day quarantine upon their return.  That is no different than anyone else allowed to enter the country that does not have an exemption.  Americans legitimately transiting to and from Alaska is one of those exemptions.


----------



## am1

$500 each does not even cover the cost of policing it.  Maybe $5000 and you have my ear.  Stick a gps on the car and file a route with immigration.


----------



## jabberwocky

cman said:


> My fellow Americans leave me shaking my head. Good work on the part of the RCMP on tracking them down and giving them the boot. Good enforcement of your laws is probably your best option at this point. As things stand now, Canadians can fly to and transit through anywhere in the USA. The day after you close the "Alaska Loophole", you'll most likely lose that ability. Hopefully, cases like these are exceptions and not the norm. But at the end of the day, Canadians have to do what's safe for Canadians.


I could definitely see this happening if transit to/from Alaska was banned.  If Canada doesn't open up the border to US travelers generally in the near future we may see the US border being closed to Canadians after January next year.


----------



## MommaBear

Harvard indicates there is a 5% false positive rate. Cochrane Medical indicated false positive 2%


			https://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/which-test-is-best-for-covid-19-2020081020734#:~:text=The%20reported%20rate%20of%20false,5%25%20or%20lower
		

.








						What is the diagnostic accuracy of antibody tests for the detection of infection with the COVID-19 virus?
					






					www.cochrane.org


----------



## jabberwocky

A trial is underway at Peason Airport to test arriving passengers. This will be interesting to see what length of quarantine (if any) is necessary.  Hopefully they get positive results which can reduce or eliminate quarantine for travellers entering Canada.









						Passengers arriving at Toronto’s Pearson airport can be tested for COVID-19 as part of voluntary study
					

The month-long project, run by McMaster HealthLabs, the Greater Toronto Airport Authority and Air Canada, aims to explore the effectiveness of quarantines




					www.theglobeandmail.com


----------



## bizaro86

jabberwocky said:


> A trial is underway at Peason Airport to test arriving passengers. This will be interesting to see what length of quarantine (if any) is necessary.  Hopefully they get positive results which can reduce or eliminate quarantine for travellers entering Canada.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Passengers arriving at Toronto’s Pearson airport can be tested for COVID-19 as part of voluntary study
> 
> 
> The month-long project, run by McMaster HealthLabs, the Greater Toronto Airport Authority and Air Canada, aims to explore the effectiveness of quarantines
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.theglobeandmail.com


I would be quite supportive of a test-on-arrival, with mandatory quarantine until a negative result is received.


----------



## DannyTS

Blues said:


> Citation?


@MommaBear








"This number of amplification cycles needed to find the virus, called the cycle threshold, is never included in the results sent to doctors and coronavirus patients, although it could tell them how infectious the patients are.

*In three sets of testing data that include cycle thresholds, compiled by officials in Massachusetts, New York and Nevada, up to 90 percent of people testing positive carried barely any virus, a review by The Times found.*

On Thursday, the United States recorded 45,604 new coronavirus cases, according to a database maintained by The Times. If the rates of contagiousness in Massachusetts and New York were to apply nationwide, then perhaps only 4,500 of those people may actually need to isolate and submit to contact tracing."









						Your Coronavirus Test Is Positive. Maybe It Shouldn’t Be. (Published 2020)
					

The usual diagnostic tests may simply be too sensitive and too slow to contain the spread of the virus.




					www.nytimes.com
				












						Up to 90% of those who tested 'positive' for COVID-19 wrongly diagnosed
					

The most widely used diagnostic test for COVID-19, called a PCR test, provides a simple yes-no answer to the question…




					macdailynews.com


----------



## CanuckTravlr

am1 said:


> $500 each does not even cover the cost of policing it.  Maybe $5000 and you have my ear.  Stick a gps on the car and file a route with immigration.



Actually, in this case it probably does.  The policing costs are a fixed, sunk cost in any case, but let's do the math.

There were four fines, totalling $2,000.  Let's assume they were visited by a senior constable and either a corporal or a sergeant.  That $2,000 fine would cover about a half-week's pay, including benefits, for both of them!  But policing costs are rarely a factor in deciding whether to pursue an offender or not.

The bigger issue for the American family will be getting back home.  The car had Alaska plates and they are now in Washington State.  It will be interesting to see what happens when they show up at the border to head back to Alaska, since they are now red-flagged on the system.


----------



## am1

CanuckTravlr said:


> Actually, in this case it probably does.  The policing costs are a fixed, sunk cost in any case, but let's do the math.
> 
> There were four fines, totalling $2,000.  Let's assume they were visited by a senior constable and either a corporal or a sergeant.  That $2,000 fine would cover about a half-week's pay, including benefits, for both of them!  But policing costs are rarely a factor in deciding whether to pursue an offender or not.
> 
> The bigger issue for the American family will be getting back home.  The car had Alaska plates and they are now in Washington State.  It will be interesting to see what happens when they show up at the border to head back to Alaska, since they are now red-flagged on the system.



Escorting back to the border as well.  I get sunk costs and fines are not based on costs but that is taking person power way from other places.  

Maybe the USA should sell Alaska or operate a ferry if people traveling there cannot do so in a responsible manner.


----------



## CanuckTravlr

am1 said:


> Escorting back to the border as well.  I get sunk costs and fines are not based on costs but that is taking person power way from other places.
> 
> Maybe the USA should sell Alaska or operate a ferry if people traveling there cannot do so in a responsible manner.



I wasn't the one linking fines to cost-recovery of police time.  I was just responding to your statement.  The fines are the equivalent of the cost of two RCMP officers for almost three days.  It takes less than an hour to travel from downtown Vancouver to the US border in Washington State!

Your solution is for the USA to build a fleet of ferries, since we probably both agree that it's highly unlikely that the USA has any interest in selling Alaska.  And to whom...us???  I don't think we have any appetite for that either, nor I suspect, do the citizens of Alaska!

Let's take your suggestion ad absurdum.  So if we cut off the landline route agreement, which has been in place for almost 80 years, then what happens?  Does the USA retaliate by cutting off the ability of anyone travelling to or from Canada and Mexico, or points further south?  It could certainly be justified.

Our economy and health depends significantly upon that ability, especially when it comes to things like auto parts and fruits and vegetables in winter time.  They are mostly transshipped through the USA.  Or we could just build our own fleet of ferries!!!    

You seem to be a bit preoccupied with this issue, since it's not the first time you've raised it.  This is such a rare occurrence, it seems out of proportion to the threat raised, since it seems to be mostly under control.  What about all those Americans that do it legally and responsibly?  Punish them, too?

If you want to take on something that might have a real impact on the spreading of Covid-19 here, I have a better suggestion.  Go after some of our own law-breakers that think it's OK to party or gather together in larger groups without masks and proper physical distancing.


----------



## am1

I added escorting back to the US as there is a cost for the police car as well.  Regardless $500 a head if caught is a very small amount. Can Canadians travel to Mexico or further south by car at the moment?  Or Mexicans wanting to return home in their personal car? All this is just at the moment when the border is suppose to be closed.  Once that changes allow anyone who wants to drive to Alaska do it.  Just no duty exemptions that are not available to Canadians entering Canada.  If they want that have it shipped direct to Alaska (through Canada).  Yes there are few cases of people getting caught but lets remember not everyone is getting caught that are breaking the rules.

Canada's own law breakers are not the measuring stick if something is okay or not but yes go full force on them as well.


----------



## jabberwocky

I thought this thread was about Canadian travel to the US, not US travellers transiting through Canada?  We’ve wandered a bit off topic IMO.


----------



## CanuckTravlr

My costs included not just the time of the two police officers, but the cost of the vehicle and the cost of someone sitting at a desk determining where the family was.  Still more than covered by the $2,000!

You say "not everyone is getting caught that are breaking the rules".  And you know this how?  Anyone crossing the border to transit between Alaska and the lower 48, or vice versa, is given a unique, numbered tag.  That tag is added to the computerized visitor record and must be handed back in to CBSA before re-entering the USA.  How do you think they knew to send the police to find them because they were overdue.  The visitor record includes the vehicle's licence plate and the visitors' passport info.

And the $500 is just the start.  They had Alaska plates on the car.  They are now in Washington.  How do you think they are going to get back to Alaska?  There is a strong likelihood they now have a ban on being able to enter Canada on their visitor record.  That could result in them having to fly home to Alaska and have their vehicle shipped, plus a possible permanent ban on ever re-entering Canada in future.  Which sounds a lot like what you were asking for!


----------



## CanuckTravlr

jabberwocky said:


> I thought this thread was about Canadian travel to the US, not US travellers transiting through Canada?  We’ve wandered a bit off topic IMO.



The title is actually "Canadian travel to the US or other countries C-19 What's up?"

You are presuming the "Canadian" refers to Canadian citizens or residents.  You are welcome to your interpretation, but IMO, it could also include travel in Canada ("Canadian travel") by anyone to the US or other countries.  This could include Canadian travel to the US from the US, which is a rather unique circumstance.

In fact, the original question posed by the OP (an American from Ohio) was with reference to "what's going on crossing the borders" (plural), which adds credence to my argument.  That is what we are discussing, and in particular, one poster's ongoing, windmill-like campaign against any American's right to do so.

You can certainly ignore the posts that don't interest you if you prefer, but it does fit into the title and OP, IMO.


----------



## jabberwocky

Fair point, I’ve kept a watch on this one since the topic is of great interest to me. Lately it seems to be all about complaining about a small number of violations of the Alaska exception rather than where Canadians can travel to. Carry on...


----------



## Tank

Giving an inch some will take a mile.
This thread has been helpful. 
Thanks for the input.
Dave


----------



## Talent312

DannyTS said:


> "...p to 90 percent of people testing positive carried *barely* any virus, a review by The Times found."



That sounds to me like being "barely" pregnant.
... and yet, 189,215 in the U.S. (892,721 globally) have died from it ...
Source: Johns Hopkins
.


----------



## DannyTS

Talent312 said:


> That sounds to me like being "barely" pregnant.
> ... and yet, 189,215 in the U.S. (892,721 globally) have died from it ...
> Source: Johns Hopkins
> .


Rather, just to use your analogy, a couple should not plan for the baby shower just because they had sex the night before.  From the New York Times article:

"*In Massachusetts, from 85 to 90 percent of people who tested positive in July** with a cycle threshold of 40 would have been deemed negative if the threshold were 30 cycles*, Dr. Mina said. “I would say that *none of those people should be contact-traced, not one*,” he said.
Other experts informed of these numbers were stunned.

“I’m really shocked that it could be that high — the proportion of people with high C.T. value results,” said Dr. Ashish Jha, director of the Harvard Global Health Institute. “Boy, *does it really change the way we need to be thinking about testing*.”









						Your Coronavirus Test Is Positive. Maybe It Shouldn’t Be. (Published 2020)
					

The usual diagnostic tests may simply be too sensitive and too slow to contain the spread of the virus.




					www.nytimes.com
				





I think the number of cycles should be specified for every test result to help epidemiologists, clinicians and statisticians in determining a number of things  including  if the cause of death is actually Covid.


----------



## jabberwocky

Talent312 said:


> That sounds to me like being "barely" pregnant.
> ... and yet, 189,215 in the U.S. (892,721 globally) have died from it ...
> Source: Johns Hopkins
> .


I assume when you talk about the deaths you mean from c-19, not pregnancy.  

Pregnancy is a poor analogy IMO, many people want to get pregnant and we don’t ban certain activities for everyone because some people would prefer to avoid getting pregnant (although social distancing be effective here as well). 

The vast majority of people who are exposed to c-19 will not display symptoms and the bodies natural defences will kick in to eliminate it.

Probably a better analogy would be an actual disease that people die from.  Diabetes kills around 270,000 (2017 number from the ADA) Americans a year.  We’ll probably end up around that many c-19 deaths this year if present trends hold out. There are a large number of people who are pre-diabetic who have elevated levels of blood sugar, but where it isn’t high enough to be classified as diabetic.


----------



## AJCts411

Rumor around my boarder town...no reopening on Sept. 21st.    Given that the Federal governing powers in Canada have gone into hiding and Fauci in the USA has stated that the he does not wish to push the issue...seems that the boarder will remain closed to non-essential ground traffic.


----------



## jabberwocky

Well - I booked my first flight to the US since January. Westjet has a fantastic sale on right now, and given the uncertainty surrounding the land border reopening, we decided our Christmas trip to visit family in the LA area would be best done by air.

I must say it was one of the most pleasant experiences I’ve had buying plane tickets. I did pick a slightly higher airfare level, but the agent gave all six of us free preferred seats in both directions and was extremely friendly.

Hopefully they get some rationality back with regards to the 14 day quarantine on return - but I will need a bit of vacation and a break from the cold by then.


----------



## Fredflintstone

jabberwocky said:


> Well - I booked my first flight to the US since January. Westjet has a fantastic sale on right now, and given the uncertainty surrounding the land border reopening, we decided our Christmas trip to visit family in the LA area would be best done by air.
> 
> I must say it was one of the most pleasant experiences I’ve had buying plane tickets. I did pick a slightly higher airfare level, but the agent gave all six of us free preferred seats in both directions and was extremely friendly.
> 
> Hopefully they get some rationality back with regards to the 14 day quarantine on return - but I will need a bit of vacation and a break from the cold by then.



I would love to book too as I have seen the great WestJet deals. As a matter of fact, I have about 1500 travel dollars from my previous cancellations. The only concern for me is how long they have the 14 day self isolation when you return to Canada. My federal governmental contact thinks it may last until early February 2021. I suppose I could chance it as I’m semi retired now....hmmmm. What to do. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## jabberwocky

February?  Yikes!  That will really kill the airlines. 

If you've got the time and WestJet travel bank it may be worth your while.  I think once we get into snow season in Alberta a warmer environment will be looking pretty good.

14 days is pretty much a killer for much of my business travel (usually 3-10 days).  I can't see doing that too often.  For two weeks in the desert with the family in late December, I'm willing to do 14 days on the return.  I need a real vacation.

14-day quarantine should be easy to handle.  I've been working from home since March 25th and can work remotely. My DW can choose her own availability for work or use the essential worker exemption if they really need her to come in.  The only problem will be kids and school - but apparently the schools are supposed to provide work for kids required to isolate/quarantine. Who knows, they may add a truancy exception.


----------



## Fredflintstone

jabberwocky said:


> February? Yikes! That will really kill the airlines.
> 
> If you've got the time and WestJet travel bank it may be worth your while. I think once we get into snow season in Alberta a warmer environment will be looking pretty good.
> 
> 14 days is pretty much a killer for much of my business travel (usually 3-10 days). I can't see doing that too often. For two weeks in the desert with the family in late December, I'm willing to do 14 days on the return. I need a real vacation.
> 
> 14-day quarantine should be easy to handle. I've been working from home since March 25th and can work remotely. My DW can choose her own availability for work or use the essential worker exemption if they really need her to come in. The only problem will be kids and school - but apparently the schools are supposed to provide work for kids required to isolate/quarantine. Who knows, they may add a truancy exception.



Oh totally agree. I love Alberta Summers and Falls. With the Chinooks here, I at least get a break from Winter throughout. However, the lack of Sun really depresses me in the winter. Not to mention the month or 2 of real cold we do get. A break is always welcome.

You are right, extending the 14 day return quarantine will further kill the travel industry. Great companies like WestJet can only hang in so long. Sadly, I have found a disconnect between government bureaucrats who make 6 figures plus and super pensions and benefits and the private player just trying to live another day. It’s easy to say “we will wait for x when you know your money is coming in regardless of your decision. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## DannyTS

How many of you believe Canada will extend the travel restrictions after September 21st (14 day quarantine upon return) ? I do not think there is any public pressure for them to do it


jabberwocky said:


> Well - I booked my first flight to the US since January. Westjet has a fantastic sale on right now, and given the uncertainty surrounding the land border reopening, we decided our Christmas trip to visit family in the LA area would be best done by air.
> 
> I must say it was one of the most pleasant experiences I’ve had buying plane tickets. I did pick a slightly higher airfare level, but the agent gave all six of us free preferred seats in both directions and was extremely friendly.
> 
> *Hopefully they get some rationality back with regards to the 14 day quarantine on retur*n - but I will need a bit of vacation and a break from the cold by then.


Hopefully they will lower it to 9 or even 5 days (like Germany is now debating). They can also ask people to get tested upon return and quarantine just until the (negative) results come back.


----------



## jabberwocky

DannyTS said:


> How many of you believe Canada will extend the travel restrictions after September 21st (14 day quarantine upon return) ? I do not think there is any public pressure for them to do it
> 
> Hopefully they will lower it to 9 or even 5 days (like Germany is now debating). They can also ask people to get tested upon return and quarantine just until the (negative) results come back.


There are actually two separate orders. The US land border agreement expires on September 21. 

The actual order for quarantine and banning travellers from other countries (other than the US) is in effect until September 30. Some provinces also have some quarantine orders overlaying the federal requirements. 

I think both with definitely be extended until at least December (probably in one month increments like they have been doing). The US land border closure extension will likely be announced next week if the pattern holds. 

I agree there doesn’t seem to be much pressure to find solutions on opening the border. The 14 days is excessive and arbitrary since the vast majority of cases manifest within 2-5 days after exposure. Pressure for change may happen as temperatures drop and airlines start laying off more staff.


----------



## DannyTS

jabberwocky said:


> There are actually two separate orders. The US land border agreement expires on September 21.
> 
> The actual order for quarantine and banning travellers from other countries (other than the US) is in effect until September 30. Some provinces also have some quarantine orders overlaying the federal requirements.
> 
> I think both with definitely be extended until at least December (probably in one month increments like they have been doing). The US land border closure extension will likely be announced next week if the pattern holds.
> 
> I agree there doesn’t seem to be much pressure to find solutions on opening the border. The 14 days is excessive and arbitrary since the vast majority of cases manifest within 2-5 days after exposure. Pressure for change may happen as temperatures drop and airlines start laying off more staff.


I agree with you,  I do not see this changed for the better anytime soon. I believe that many Canadians travel abroad but even more do not on a regular basis. I do not have data to prove this but based on the median income I assume that many cannot afford to travel every year. Since some of those that travel regularly are genuinely concerned about travelling, when you add those that do not travel, in the polls you will always have a lot more people who say they want the restrictions kept in place.


----------



## MULTIZ321

'Throw it away and wash your hands': Salmonella outbreak in Canada growing, leaving close to 500 
people sick and dozens hospitalized 










						‘Throw it away and wash your hands’: Salmonella outbreak in Canada growing, leaving close to 500 people sick and dozens hospitalized
					

One individual has died, but it is not known if salmonella contributed to the cause of death.




					www.thestar.com
				





Richard


----------



## Fredflintstone

jabberwocky said:


> There are actually two separate orders. The US land border agreement expires on September 21.
> 
> The actual order for quarantine and banning travellers from other countries (other than the US) is in effect until September 30. Some provinces also have some quarantine orders overlaying the federal requirements.
> 
> I think both with definitely be extended until at least December (probably in one month increments like they have been doing). The US land border closure extension will likely be announced next week if the pattern holds.
> 
> I agree there doesn’t seem to be much pressure to find solutions on opening the border. The 14 days is excessive and arbitrary since the vast majority of cases manifest within 2-5 days after exposure. Pressure for change may happen as temperatures drop and airlines start laying off more staff.



There may be pressure for governments to change as businesses lay more off but I have found through first hand experience that governments don’t care. I think the disconnect comes from the fact that public servants still collect their pay cheques and benefits while their decisions destroy many a business. 

They may appear concerned over reduced government coffers because of business failures and increased lay offs, but in reality their pay cheque’s are still direct deposited like clockwork.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## moonstone

Reports on the CBC news this evening that tomorrow the Canadian Gov't will formally announce the Can/US border will remain closed to non essential travel until Oct. 21st.  I bet it will be extended past that as well.

-Diane


----------



## jabberwocky

moonstone said:


> Reports on the CBC news this evening that tomorrow the Canadian Gov't will formally announce the Can/US border will remain closed to non essential travel until Oct. 21st.  I bet it will be extended past that as well.
> 
> -Diane


My guess is January 21.


----------



## moonstone

jabberwocky said:


> My guess is January 21.


Yes, I think it will be January at the earliest.

Guess I'll be be calling RCI tomorrow to cancel both our fall trips and see how long they'll extend our points past their expiry dates without costing us a bundle. 
One of our weeks (added to 1of the points exchanges) is one of those $99 RCI specials they had on sale a few months ago. I wonder if they'll let us reschedule that or if they'll refund us so we can rebook at full price?  

-Diane


----------



## Fredflintstone

jabberwocky said:


> My guess is January 21.



I think your guess is a good one. However, should there be any perceived spikes in cases in the US, expect longer. If there was a proven vaccine though, expect sooner.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## easyrider

We had reservations in Yellowknife for tomorrow. I cancelled this reservation months ago thinking Canada would surely be open by today. I wonder how those Northern Lights are looking up north ? Maybe next year.

Bill


----------



## jabberwocky

Fredflintstone said:


> I think your guess is a good one. However, should there be any perceived spikes in cases in the US, expect longer. If there was a proven vaccine though, expect sooner.


The 21st also is the day after January 20 which is an important day south of the border.


----------



## jabberwocky

easyrider said:


> We had reservations in Yellowknife for tomorrow. I cancelled this reservation months ago thinking Canada would surely be open by today. I wonder how those Northern Lights are looking up north ? Maybe next year.
> 
> Bill


Yes - the aurora borealis are quite the sight. Too bad you won’t get to see it this year. Let’s cross our fingers that 2021 will be a rebound year.


----------



## Dori

I think the majority of Canadians won’t be travelling anywhere in the near future due to health insurance restrictions. Our policy does not cover Covid-related illness. That should change hopefully, when travel advisories are lifted. It’s going to be a long winter  if we can’t travel down south to our mobile home park.

Dori


----------



## AJCts411

Dori said:


> I think the majority of Canadians won’t be travelling anywhere in the near future due to health insurance restrictions. Our policy does not cover Covid-related illness. That should change hopefully, when travel advisories are lifted. It’s going to be a long winter  if we can’t travel down south to our mobile home park.
> 
> Dori



Just FYI, I read today that Manulife has joined 2 others to offer covid travel and medical insurance.


----------



## moonstone

Dori said:


> I think the majority of Canadians won’t be travelling anywhere in the near future due to health insurance restrictions. Our policy does not cover Covid-related illness. That should change hopefully, when travel advisories are lifted. It’s going to be a long winter  if we can’t travel down south to our mobile home park.
> 
> Dori



DH is still wanting to return to Belize this winter if they get their act together and slow the virus transmission down in the country. He called his insurance provider with his pension plan (normally gives us 90 days out of country coverage) and they they said right now they wont even cover a broken arm, let alone any Covid related illness, if we travel out of country!  

You are right, it is looking like a long cold winter for a lot of us! 


~Diane


----------



## easyrider

Can Canadians purchase trip insurance or does International travel violate your regular policy ? 

Bill


----------



## jabberwocky

easyrider said:


> Can Canadians purchase trip insurance or does International travel violate your regular policy ?
> 
> Bill


“Universal health” coverage in Canada isn’t universal. There is a small amount for out of country payments, but it’s extremely small and doesn’t come close to covering what is necessary. If you are traveling out of country as a Canadian you really should buy a policy in the private market that will cover your health care needs. 

Many employers have extended health insurance plans that cover things that government insurance does not (dental, optical, drugs). Travel is usually also included in those employer policies. I know Sunlife (my employers policy) is still providing out-of-country medical coverage for up to 30 days - including immediate family. They won’t cover costs for quarantine or flight cancellations due to covid - so we would be on our own for that.


----------



## Fredflintstone

easyrider said:


> Can Canadians purchase trip insurance or does International travel violate your regular policy ?
> 
> Bill



Yes, Canadians can buy travel insurance and no it doesn’t violate our “regular policy.” I think you mean “regular policy” to be our public health care system. It isn’t a policy so I am not sure. Health care here only pays a very small portion of any health travel costs internationally so you are very wise to carry travel health insurance. It’s cheap anyway. I think the last time I took out a 10 million dollar health policy it was 7 USD a day. Some people just bank on their credit card insurance (as part of their benefits) but I like to actually buy specific insurance. I learned that from my dad years ago. He was in Yuma, AZ and got bilateral pneumonia and almost died. He was in intensive care for 5 days and the bill was just under 100 k. Anyway, his health insurance that cost him 300 bucks covered the entire cost. Yes, don’t leave home without it.

As for other travel insurance, adding on does not affect any other insurance.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## Fredflintstone

Also, health coverage is a provincial program (as in state like) so I always have added health coverage if I travel to another province. Again, it’s cheap.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## Fredflintstone

Actually, there is only one exception to Provincial Health Care footing the entire bill. If, for example, you have a rare disease AND the only place you can get treatment is in another country, Alberta Health Care will cover all your treatment costs. However, that ain’t no vaca. You get treatment and come back home. Plus, if there is any treatment above the treatment you can’t get anywhere else, you will get that treatment at home.

This is in very rare situations so you might as well say you aren’t covered internationally. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## DannyTS

This is very important news from the insurance industry









						Manulife unveils COVID-19-related travel insurance in face of advisories
					

Manulife Financial Corp. is offering COVID-19-related travel insurance for Canadians who take international and domestic trips, eliciting mixed reactions from the industry.The policy, slated to roll out in October, will provide emergency medical coverage that includes the coronavirus and related...




					ca.finance.yahoo.com


----------



## moonstone

Well we knew it was going to happen, now it's official.  


			Trump claims Canada wants to open border with U.S. as closure extended to Oct. 21
		



~Diane


----------



## jabberwocky

moonstone said:


> Well we knew it was going to happen, now it's official.
> 
> 
> Trump claims Canada wants to open border with U.S. as closure extended to Oct. 21
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ~Diane


I'm surprised it took them this long to announce it.  According to prior media reports, the governments were to announce it on Wednesday. I wonder if the US side is starting to push more for opening of the border.


----------



## moonstone

jabberwocky said:


> I'm surprised it took them this long to announce it.  According to prior media reports, the governments were to announce it on Wednesday. I wonder if the US side is starting to push more for opening of the border.



Yes, they sure waited until the last minute to formally announce the extension!  We were supposed to be leaving next Friday for a 10 night stay in VA but I was able to cancel and get a full points refund (without paying the RCI Points Protection fee) as well as a credit for the exchange fee. The current closure goes until Oct.21st and we are scheduled to leave Oct.22nd or 23rd for 2+ weeks in Florida. I'm fairly certain we'll be cancelling that as well. 

I saw the headline to this story and laughed (where does he get his news from?).  I think much of the US, especially the tourist areas, want the border to open up sooner rather than later.


			Hours after U.S.-Canada border closure extended to Oct. 21, Trump says it 'opening pretty soon'
		



~Diane


----------



## jabberwocky

moonstone said:


> Yes, they sure waited until the last minute to formally announce the extension!  We were supposed to be leaving next Friday for a 10 night stay in VA but I was able to cancel and get a full points refund (without paying the RCI Points Protection fee) as well as a credit for the exchange fee. The current closure goes until Oct.21st and we are scheduled to leave Oct.22nd or 23rd for 2+ weeks in Florida. I'm fairly certain we'll be cancelling that as well.
> 
> I saw the headline to this story and laughed (where does he get his news from?).  I think much of the US, especially the tourist areas, want the border to open up sooner rather than later.
> 
> 
> Hours after U.S.-Canada border closure extended to Oct. 21, Trump says it 'opening pretty soon'



I just watched the clip.  It sounds like he is stating he thinks it will be opened before the end of the year.  So we might have a situation where Canadians can travel to the US (with a quarantine of course), but Canada bans Americans.

I agree that the US wants more tourist dollars - states that rely more heavily on tourism are really hurting right now, and it will get worse.


----------



## Fredflintstone

jabberwocky said:


> I just watched the clip. It sounds like he is stating he thinks it will be opened before the end of the year. So we might have a situation where Canadians can travel to the US (with a quarantine of course), but Canada bans Americans.
> 
> I agree that the US wants more tourist dollars - states that rely more heavily on tourism are really hurting right now, and it will get worse.



I agree with you, especially the states bordering Canada.

When I cancelled my Airbnb in Hawaii planned for December, 2020, I was mindful of the number of small business operators suffering. In this case, I lost 1 k CAD for cancelling. I could have fought it because I still believe the Canada US border closure will still be in place and a good chance 14 day quarantines either in Hawaii and/or Canada will be there too. However, I thought about the poor guy who is suffering big time in Hawaii because of the massive amounts of cancellations. His bills keep coming but his business keeps failing through this. So, I let it slide.

Same as WestJet. I have a large travel bank when I cancelled. I could have argued the point that I want a cash refund but realized how hard it must be to be in the Airline industry.

Personally, I’m not booking anything until I’m sure everything is stable. This month to month closure just makes it too hard to plan. 

So, I’m one Canadian grounded for awhile. Oh well, things could be worse I suppose. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## Fredflintstone

moonstone said:


> Yes, they sure waited until the last minute to formally announce the extension! We were supposed to be leaving next Friday for a 10 night stay in VA but I was able to cancel and get a full points refund (without paying the RCI Points Protection fee) as well as a credit for the exchange fee. The current closure goes until Oct.21st and we are scheduled to leave Oct.22nd or 23rd for 2+ weeks in Florida. I'm fairly certain we'll be cancelling that as well.
> 
> I saw the headline to this story and laughed (where does he get his news from?). I think much of the US, especially the tourist areas, want the border to open up sooner rather than later.
> 
> 
> Hours after U.S.-Canada border closure extended to Oct. 21, Trump says it 'opening pretty soon'
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ~Diane



Hi Diane,

You may want to just hold off any bookings until you see when the restrictions are lifted and remain lifted. My guess is you may get some smokin’ deals as everywhere will be hungry to get accommodations booked. I know it smarts but booking now can leave you with more possible cancellations, more disappointments and more money down the drain.

Although there are 2 camps of thought, I believe the US and to some degree Canada is heading for hard times. Some argue that only the service industry is suffering while skilled, higher paid jobs are doing great. Well, I know many high paying oil workers in Alberta suffering and would jump at any job, even low paying. I also know US realtors telling me to wait if I want a winter home in the US as they believe once the forebearances and rental mess comes to roost, the real estate market will be flooded causing prices to drop. If times get hard, you will find unbelievable deals and it will be worth the wait.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## am1

Good news.  Keep it closed until the US gets a handle on the pandemic and violence.


----------



## moonstone

Fredflintstone said:


> Hi Diane,
> 
> You may want to just hold off any bookings until you see when the restrictions are lifted and remain lifted. My guess is you may get some smokin’ deals as everywhere will be hungry to get accommodations booked. I know it smarts but booking now can leave you with more possible cancellations, more disappointments and more money down the drain.
> 
> Although there are 2 camps of thought, I believe the US and to some degree Canada is heading for hard times. Some argue that only the service industry is suffering while skilled, higher paid jobs are doing great. Well, I know many high paying oil workers in Alberta suffering and would jump at any job, even low paying. I also know US realtors telling me to wait if I want a winter home in the US as they believe once the forebearances and rental mess comes to roost, the real estate market will be flooded causing prices to drop. If times get hard, you will find unbelievable deals and it will be worth the wait.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk



Thanks, yes we are not going to book anything until we see what is happening both here at home and at our desired destination. If we have to pay to extend our RCI Points into next summer, then so be it.  We still have our flight (Dec.30th) booked and apartment deposit for our winter stay in Belize, but the country is still closed and will probably remain so for a few months at least. We purposely booked a direct (YYZ>BZE) flight with WestJet in case Belize prohibits American flights/people. Also when we booked WestJet was offering a 2 year rebook with no fee window.  Like the southern US, Belize is very dependent on the tourist dollar and many people are literally starving due to the lack of work. We (especially DH) are not looking forward to a Canadian winter but we will be putting our safety first and if that is what we need to do, well, we will survive.

We already own a winter home in Florida which we bought in the slump about 10yrs ago. It is rented out on an annual lease and had nearly doubled in value from our purchase price.  When it is paid off we hope to use it ourselves. 


~Diane


----------



## Fredflintstone

moonstone said:


> Thanks, yes we are not going to book anything until we see what is happening both here at home and at our desired destination. If we have to pay to extend our RCI Points into next summer, then so be it. We still have our flight (Dec.30th) booked and apartment deposit for our winter stay in Belize, but the country is still closed and will probably remain so for a few months at least. We purposely booked a direct (YYZ>BZE) flight with WestJet in case Belize prohibits American flights/people. Also when we booked WestJet was offering a 2 year rebook with no fee window. Like the southern US, Belize is very dependent on the tourist dollar and many people are literally starving due to the lack of work. We (especially DH) are not looking forward to a Canadian winter but we will be putting our safety first and if that is what we need to do, well, we will survive.
> 
> We already own a winter home in Florida which we bought in the slump about 10yrs ago. It is rented out on an annual lease and had nearly doubled in value from our purchase price. When it is paid off we hope to use it ourselves.
> 
> 
> ~Diane



Very smart on Florida! I sure kicked myself back then for not buying. I have friends who bought in La Quinta (Palm Springs) area then too and have made a killing.

As for Belize, it’s sad everywhere where folks rely on tourist income. My thoughts are what’s worse? Covid or losing everything and living in a tent? My good friend in Hawaii who owns a charter boat is on the verge of losing everything, including his home, over this. My heart goes out to him and the many others suffering as a consequence.

One good thing I suppose is my gratitude on being in the position I am in has gone up a lot. I thank god regularly on how fortunate I am. You know, this situation has also really had me appreciate being a Canadian too. I do live in a beautiful country with kind, peaceful values, public health care and a unique caring for others through social programs. I frankly took it for granted and some times was tempted to move to another country where the weather is better. After this, I will always make Canada home BUT will still try to escape winter when I can. If I can’t, that’s ok, I’m in a good place here. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## jabberwocky

This would be an interesting option and would open up air travel if it would be an alternative to quarantine.  Hopefully regulators can get around to approving rapid tests.










						Clinical trial for 1-minute COVID-19 test will be done inside Edmonton's airport
					

An Edmonton-based company has created a COVID-19 test that it says can produce results in less than a minute. And it will be tested on passengers at the Edmonton International Airport.



					edmonton.ctvnews.ca


----------



## jabberwocky

A couple of new stories. Canadian government will be expanding the list of foreigners eligible to enter Canada. Quarantine still required and restrictions being lifted will probably apply to very few. Probably the biggest group is international students. Canada is also expanding contact tracers and deploying more public health officers to border locations.










						Canada changing travel restrictions to allow more families to reunite
					

The federal government is easing the current cross-border travel policies on family reunification, expanding who will be allowed into Canada while also adding new COVID-19 public health screening measures for travellers entering the country.



					www.ctvnews.ca
				




Second news story identifies several US Senators who are lobbying for the US to reopen the border to Canadians this month. 










						Senators ask Trump to end blanket closure of U.S.-Canada border
					

"We believe that border restrictions should reflect the actual, localized risk on both sides of the border," wrote Senators Susan Collins



					www.google.com


----------



## jabberwocky

It's the middle of the month, so it must be time to start preparing for the next installment of "When will the border reopen?"

The Canadian PM today says that Canada will be keeping the border closed as long as Covid is a problem in the US.

What is interesting to me is what was said about snowbirds:



> Trudeau warned Canadian snowbirds to resist the urge to travel south in search of warmer climes.
> 
> "I know there's a lot of people worried about what's happening south of the border in Florida, Arizona, California and other places where the virus is not under control or less under control than we are here," he said. "The challenges around the health care system being overloaded down there and access to health insurance – making sure you have coverage in case something does happen – are a lot more difficult."
> 
> *He said a travel advisory is as far as the government is willing to go.*
> 
> "Ultimately, if someone chooses to travel, we're not going to keep them imprisoned in Canada. There's freedom of movement in this country," he said. "Still, people have to recognize they're putting themselves at risk, putting their loved ones at risk. And they may not have the right kind of health insurance or repatriation flights that we did early on if they choose to leave the country."



So does this indicate that we might have a situation where the US doesn't want to keep the border closed, but Canada does?  Could this lead to a situation where the land border to the US is reopened to Canadians headed south?










						Justin Trudeau: Canada-US border will stay closed until America gets COVID-19 under control
					

"The U.S. is not in a place where we would feel comfortable reopening those borders," Canadian Prime Minister Justin  Trudeau said Wednesday.



					www.usatoday.com


----------



## bbakernbay

There will be a multitude of US timeshare associations that will have severe impacts from Canadians defaulting on their MFees or by not renting owner’s units in 2021.  This pandemic is going to have far reaching implications to many timeshares.


----------



## Brett

WSJ   10/15/2020


----------



## jabberwocky

Well, it's groundhog day in October.  Border closure extended to November 21.  

It is interesting that there is a bit more sniping going on between the governments.  

I just wish that Canada would try to get some sort of travel testing regime put in place (e.g., Hawaii) that would eliminate the need for quarantine.  Believe it or not, there are people advocating against private covid testing!  I think a big concern is that the Canadian healthcare system will have to pick up the costs for all of the foreigners with covid.


----------



## am1

Good article out this week about the Point Roberts south of Vancouver.  If they want access to Canada then should ask to join.


----------



## dreamin

jabberwocky said:


> Well, it's groundhog day in October.  Border closure extended to November 21.
> 
> It is interesting that there is a bit more sniping going on between the governments.
> 
> I just wish that Canada would try to get some sort of travel testing regime put in place (e.g., Hawaii) that would eliminate the need for quarantine.  Believe it or not, there are people advocating against private covid testing!  *I think a big concern is that the Canadian healthcare system will have to pick up the costs for all of the foreigners with covid.*



This would not be a big concern.  No one is ever refused health care in Canada regardless of where they are from or their finances.  However, someone from the finance department of the hospital would be visiting the patient to arrange payment, either through a personal medical plan or cash payment or from immediate family.  As soon as the patient is stable arrangements are made to return them to their home country.  The majority of Canadians want the border to remain closed.


----------



## jabberwocky

dreamin said:


> This would not be a big concern.  No one is ever refused health care in Canada regardless of where they are from or their finances.  However, someone from the finance department of the hospital would be visiting the patient to arrange payment, either through a personal medical plan or cash payment or from immediate family.  As soon as the patient is stable arrangements are made to return them to their home country.  The majority of Canadians want the border to remain closed.


But there is no enforcement mechanism if someone refuses to pay due to not having insurance.

I supported the border closure initially (in fact I thought it was too late). But we are now past the point where it is useful. Covid now has a high degree of community spread and there are many areas of Canada that are worse than the sunbelt states now.

You are right that polls show most Canadians could care less about our international connections. Many would love to live in our own igloos, smoking weed, and collecting the CRB, but we need to start thinking about how we are going to get people moving again with rapid testing and quarantine alternatives.  

The EU is now thinking or removing Canada from their whitelist of countries since we do not have travel reciprocity. Our universities are going to have a lot of trouble recruiting international students for next year (this has huge funding implications). We can’t do international commerce if people have to quarantine for 14 days every time they leave the country (see Hawaii, example of). The list goes on. [/RANT]


----------



## am1

The land border should open once the USA takes Covid seriously.  Packing football stadiums etc is not a need at this time.  I would let Canadians go south if they want but require them to buy insurance for when they were return before they leave.  For Covid illness.  I would also let Americans come after a negative test and 14 day quarantine but only for important reasons.  Not day tripping or tourism.  Own a second home, visiting family for an extended stay etc.


----------



## DannyTS

am1 said:


> The land border should open once the USA takes Covid seriously.  Packing football stadiums etc is not a need at this time.  I would let Canadians go south if they want but require them to buy insurance for when they were return before they leave.  For Covid illness.  I would also let Americans come after a negative test and 14 day quarantine but only for important reasons.  Not day tripping or tourism.  Own a second home, visiting family for an extended stay etc.


Airlines are providing free Covid insurance now when you purchase a plane ticket so the premium must be pretty cheap. The insurance companies know the numbers better than the media so my take is: NOT as scary as some may think


----------



## am1

DannyTS said:


> Airlines are providing free Covid insurance now when you purchase a plane ticket so the premium must be pretty cheap. The insurance companies know the numbers better than the media so my take is: NOT as scary as some may think



Ok but let the people traveling out of country pay that instead of spread over all tax payers.  For the record I would exclude smokers and drunk drivers from free health care.


----------



## DannyTS

am1 said:


> Ok but let the people traveling out of country pay that instead of spread over all tax payers.  For the record I would exclude smokers and drunk drivers from free health care.


Once you start with exclusions, we are on a slippery slope. How about other risk factors, some can be hereditary but in many cases they depend on the life style. Enforcement would be a b.


----------



## dreamin

jabberwocky said:


> But there is no enforcement mechanism if someone refuses to pay due to not having insurance.


You are right in that there is no enforcement other than multiple billing attempts and an appeal to the patient and family to honour their obligations.  But sometimes there is a bigger price to pay.  For example, my ex-BIL had dual citizenship, US/Canada, but lived most of his life in the US.  While in the process of relocating to BC he had a heart attack requiring open heart surgery complicated by kidney failure.  The BC hospital provided the surgery and dialysis even though he had no medical coverage or finances.  They then ambulanced him to a hospital in Blaine, WA as he was essentially deemed a US citizen.  The WA hospital stopped the dialysis once they confirmed he had no way to continue the treatment.  He died a week later.  It was a very sad situation for my nieces but sure highlighted the differences in health care systems.  I hope that most travellers to our country would ensure they had medical insurance.



DannyTS said:


> Airlines are providing free Covid insurance now when you purchase a plane ticket



Air Canada is providing "up to $200,000 CDN" (or $152,000 USD) for COVID insurance if you book an international flight (including the US) prior to the end of this month for a maximum 21 day stay.  I don't feel confident that would cover the costs of a hospital stay in the US if I developed a severe case of COVID.


----------



## am1

DannyTS said:


> Once you start with exclusions, we are on a slippery slope. How about other risk factors, some can be hereditary but in many cases they depend on the life style. Enforcement would be a b.


The world loves slippery slopes.  But yes you are right not easy but ideal.


----------



## jabberwocky

dreamin said:


> You are right in that there is no enforcement other than multiple billing attempts and an appeal to the patient and family to honour their obligations.  But sometimes there is a bigger price to pay.  For example, my ex-BIL had dual citizenship, US/Canada, but lived most of his life in the US.  While in the process of relocating to BC he had a heart attack requiring open heart surgery complicated by kidney failure.  The BC hospital provided the surgery and dialysis even though he had no medical coverage or finances.  They then ambulanced him to a hospital in Blaine, WA as he was essentially deemed a US citizen.  The WA hospital stopped the dialysis once they confirmed he had no way to continue the treatment.  He died a week later.  It was a very sad situation for my nieces but sure highlighted the differences in health care systems.  I hope that most travellers to our country would ensure they had medical insurance.


I'm sorry to hear about your BIL.  That sounds like a horrible situation. If he is a Canadian citizen and was relocating to BC, why did they send him back to the US? Returning Canadian citizens have health-care covered as soon as they re-establish residency (unlike moving from province-to-province where there is usually a waiting period).


----------



## DannyTS

dreamin said:


> Air Canada is providing "up to $200,000 CDN" (or $152,000 USD) for COVID insurance if you book an international flight (including the US) prior to the end of this month for a maximum 21 day stay.  I don't feel confident that would cover the costs of a hospital stay in the US if I developed a severe case of COVID.



One can always buy additional insurance. A 70 year old male would pay 106 CAD for an  8 day trip. There is also an option for 10 million dollars of medical coverage. As I said, their numbers are probably telling them a different story.


----------



## am1

jabberwocky said:


> I'm sorry to hear about your BIL.  That sounds like a horrible situation. If he is a Canadian citizen and was relocating to BC, why did they send him back to the US? Returning Canadian citizens have health-care covered as soon as they re-establish residency (unlike moving from province-to-province where there is usually a waiting period).


My understanding was 3 months to establish residency from out of country.  Apparently its sales tax and not income tax that pay health care costs.


----------



## jabberwocky

am1 said:


> My understanding was 3 months to establish residency from out of country.  Apparently its sales tax and not income tax that pay health care costs.


Nope - I've moved back and we were covered from day one (three months is usually province-to-province).  We ended up taking our daughter into emerg after she had a minor mishap about one month after we relocated.  We didn't even have her healthcare number yet, but we worked with the hospital and everything got sorted out once I got her HC number (they did send us a bill for $400 in the meantime).


----------



## am1

jabberwocky said:


> Nope - I've moved back and we were covered from day one (three months is usually province-to-province).  We ended up taking our daughter into emerg after she had a minor mishap about one month after we relocated.  We didn't even have her healthcare number yet, but we worked with the hospital and everything got sorted out once I got her HC number (they did send us a bill for $400 in the meantime).








 I am frequently away from Ontario, due to my job/studies; am I eligible for OHIP coverage?
If your job or studies require you to leave Ontario frequently and you are unable to be present for 153 days in any 12-month period, you may still be eligible for OHIP coverage as a _mobile worker_ or _mobile student_. To maintain your OHIP coverage, you should:

be able to provide acceptable documents that show that your work requires frequent travel in and out of Ontario or that your full-time academic program in Ontario requires travel outside of Ontario; *and*
be able to provide acceptable documents to show how you make your primary place of residence in Ontario (refer to Ontario Health Coverage Document List).
New or returning residents to Ontario who qualify as a mobile worker or mobile student are exempt from having to meet the 153-day in the first 183-day physical presence requirement immediately after establishing residency in Ontario.

*Exemption from the Waiting Period for OHIP*


A child under the age of 16, who is adopted outside of Canada by Ontario residents, will be exempt from the three-month waiting period for Ontario health insurance coverage; if they meet the following 2 requirements:
The child has an OHIP-eligible citizenship/immigration status.  OHIP-eligible citizenship/immigration statuses are listed in Regulation 552 of the Health Insurance Act; more information can be found on this topic under the fact sheet OHIP Eligibility.
The adoptive parents can provide confirmation that they have received director approval, provided by the Ministry of Children and Youth Services, of their international adoption under Ontario’s   Intercountry Adoption Act. 

A child under the age of 16, who will be placed for adoption in Ontario from another country, will be exempt from the three-month waiting period for Ontario health insurance coverage; if they meet the following 2 requirements:
The child has an OHIP-eligible citizenship/immigration status.  OHIP-eligible citizenship/immigration statuses are listed in Regulation 552 of the Health Insurance Act; more information can be found on this topic under the fact sheet OHIP Eligibility.
The adoptive parents can provide confirmation that they have received director approval, provided by the Ministry of Children and Youth Services, of their international adoption under Ontario’s Child and Family Services Act (CFSA).

A child under 16 years old, who is the subject of an adoption order under section 146 of the Child and Family Services Act , will be exempt from the remainder of the three-month waiting period for Ontario health insurance coverage; if on the date the adoption is finalized, the child is OHIP-eligible and is within their three month waiting period.
Further information on the changes concerning adoptions can be found on a fact sheet entitled International Adoptions and OHIP Eligibility.  The above is only a summary of the OHIP eligibility provisions of Regulation 552 for your reference.  You should consult the actual regulation for the specific requirements applicable to you.  The provisions in Regulation 552 prevail over this summary.


----------



## jabberwocky

I think we’re getting off-course here and I don’t want to get into a discussion of what is required under the Canada Health Act. Some provinces do try to impose a waiting period - especially for pre-existing conditions and pregnancy (see: hospital of, Richmond). Whether that is legal remains a different story. Back to the topic at hand which is travel to other countries by Canadians.


----------



## am1

Just fact checking your mis information.  Maybe your province is different.


----------



## MULTIZ321

US tentatively approves Delta, WestJet alliance
					

The Delta-WestJet joint venture would have a combined 27% share of scheduled air carrier transborder capacity




					www.foxbusiness.com
				



.


Richard


----------



## CanuckTravlr

MULTIZ321 said:


> US tentatively approves Delta, WestJet alliance
> 
> 
> The Delta-WestJet joint venture would have a combined 27% share of scheduled air carrier transborder capacity
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.foxbusiness.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> Richard



This is a potentially good long-term strategy for WestJet (and Delta).  With a huge reduction in even domestic flights right now, it gives it a way to realign its resources, cut its losses on its Swoop low-cost carrier, and eventually eliminate or redeploy those aircraft.  It will also give both carriers a shot at a larger percentage of the cross-border traffic.

As to the implementation of the cross-border agreement, in reality it will likely not be seen until there is a viable vaccine for Covid-19 and the withdrawal of travel restrictions into Canada.  While Canadians can still fly essentially unrestricted into the USA, no international travellers can fly to Canada unless they qualify under one of the exemptions.

Canadians returning to Canada must also undergo a strict and enforced 14-day quarantine currently.  There is a pilot project at Calgary airport that just got underway to use a rapid-result test to reduce the quarantine.  However, it will likely be awhile before that is expanded to larger airports like Toronto and Vancouver, assuming it is successful.


----------



## DannyTS

I am curious if this means that Westjet points and vouchers can be used in the future  on Delta flights.


----------



## easyrider

I was wondering if Canadians are traveling to Mexico this winter. I noticed many resorts are still taking reservations for February 2021 and this is kind of unusual this late in the game.

Bill


----------



## jabberwocky

easyrider said:


> I was wondering if Canadians are traveling to Mexico this winter. I noticed many resorts are still taking reservations for February 2021 and this is kind of unusual this late in the game.
> 
> Bill


My guess is that very few will be doing so.  The government has been actively discouraging international travel, and most individuals would be subject to a 14-day quarantine upon return. It sounds like the Canadian government won't be approving a vaccine until Q1 next year, so this winter will be a write-off for most. 

We currently have a trip to Cancun booked for March, but that can be canceled if need be.  I have a backup plan for Phoenix (no quarantine on return if I plan flights right - and it may be possible that the US border is opened by then).


----------



## byeloe

jabberwocky said:


> My guess is that very few will be doing so.  The government has been actively discouraging international travel, and most individuals would be subject to a 14-day quarantine upon return. It sounds like the Canadian government won't be approving a vaccine until Q1 next year, so this winter will be a write-off for most.
> 
> We currently have a trip to Cancun booked for March, but that can be canceled if need be.  I have a backup plan for Phoenix (no quarantine on return if I plan flights right - and it may be possible that the US border is opened by then).


still planning to be in Cancun for new years.  Fortunately I am working from home and will be able to quarantine upon return.

How will you avoid the quarantine?


----------



## jabberwocky

byeloe said:


> still planning to be in Cancun for new years.  Fortunately I am working from home and will be able to quarantine upon return.
> 
> How will you avoid the quarantine?


Since we are Alberta residents, if we are able to get an international flight into Calgary we can take a test on arrival and be out of quarantine in a couple of days if it comes back negative.  We're going to try this out after Christmas when we return from Palm Springs.

I'll likely have to rebook flights onto United and get a connection from the US (at the moment AC doesn't have any international flights to Calgary, and WestJet doesn't have Cancun availability.)


----------



## am1

Another month.  Should have announced it as a closure to a few days after New Years and be done with it till after the holidays.  

But you can take a helicopter to a us airport with customs and have a truck bring your car and belonging over the border.


----------



## Brett

New business ventures help Canadian snowbirds circumvent a closed U.S. land border

*https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/snowbirds-canada-u-s-border-drive-winter-travel-covid-19-1.5810104*


----------



## MULTIZ321

Travellers must take a COVID-19 test before flying to Canada. Here's what you need to know.










						Travellers must take a COVID-19 test before flying to Canada. Here’s what you need to know - National | Globalnews.ca
					

The new rules, which were first announced Wednesday, are meant to further limit the spread of the novel coronavirus pandemic in Canada.




					globalnews.ca
				





Richard


----------



## CanuckTravlr

MULTIZ321 said:


> Travellers must take a COVID-19 test before flying to Canada. Here's what you need to know.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Travellers must take a COVID-19 test before flying to Canada. Here’s what you need to know - National | Globalnews.ca
> 
> 
> The new rules, which were first announced Wednesday, are meant to further limit the spread of the novel coronavirus pandemic in Canada.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> globalnews.ca
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Richard



To be clear, nothing else has changed.  The Canada/US land border is still closed and air travel is still closed for all non-essential (e.g. tourism) purposes.  Returning Canadian citizens and residents, and even most others travelling for essential purposes, are still subject to the 14-day quarantine, even with the test.  This is just an additional measure to help control any outside sources of infection due to the rising caseload here.


----------



## AJCts411

"This is just an additional measure to help control..." the citizens.  Please do note all of the island hopping trips our elected official hypocrites took abroad already.   Intersteing is that these elected elite are saying testing does not work we don't trust it or why quarantine , the vaccine does not work or why would you be forced to test.


----------



## Chrisky

AJCts411 said:


> "This is just an additional measure to help control..." the citizens.  Please do note all of the island hopping trips our elected official hypocrites took abroad already.   Intersteing is that these elected elite are saying testing does not work we don't trust it or why quarantine , the vaccine does not work or why would you be forced to test.


Which Canadian elected elite are saying “ testing does not work we don't trust it or why quarantine , the vaccine does not work or why would you be forced to test.” ?
The Canadian elected people that I am aware of, have all said they quarantined themselves  or will quarantine upon arrival in Canada.


----------



## AJCts411

Chrisky said:


> Which Canadian elected elite are saying “ testing does not work we don't trust it or why quarantine , the vaccine does not work or why would you be forced to test.” ?
> The Canadian elected people that I am aware of, have all said they quarantined themselves  or will quarantine upon arrival in Canada.



Read the news articles.  If your tested you still MUST quarantine.  Is that a policy that says we trust testing? Not.  Tam says still going to need masks and restrictions for a very long time even after you get a vaccine.  Is that someone who believe in the vaccine? NO!   Those elite.


----------



## T-Dot-Traveller

AJCts411 said:


> Read the news articles.  If your tested you still MUST quarantine.  Is that a policy that says we trust testing? Not.  Tam says still going to need masks and restrictions for a very long time even after you get a vaccine.  Is that someone who believe in the vaccine? NO!   Those elite.



This is how I understand this:

1) the vaccines cause you to develop antibodies. This will prevent you from “feeling very sick / having to go to the hospital; BUT the vaccines do not prevent you from getting Covid-19 and therefore giving it to someone else while you are asymptomatic .

2) Asymptomatic people are known to spread Covid-19 .
Covid-19 is primarily spread by aerosol - (ie) you breath it out / someone else breaths it in.
The nasal cavity is a significant part of this process. Wearing a mask that covers your nose matters.

3) All Medical Tests have a threshold level of accuracy.
(ie) A pregnancy test can be 96 % accurate.I believe the self tests for pregnancy measure hormone levels that change when you are  pregnant. If you became pregnant one hour ago such a test is unlikely to detect  a pregnancy.

4)  - mask wearing -social distancing - vaccination - testing.
are all going to be a part of 2021 / conspiracy theory’s not withstanding.

We are all hoping that these measures can make travel generally safe.


----------



## Chrisky

T-Dot Traveller, thanks for responding.  Your explanations are excellent. 

AJCts411, if you are tested, you quarantine yourself until you receive a negative result.  Then you can go about your business.  If the test result comes back positive, you continue your quarantine for the 14 day duration. Then, IMO, after the 14 days ideally you should get another test just to be sure you are ok. But that means when you are out in public you still need to wear a mask, practise social distancing etc. 
Of course Dr. Tam believes in the vaccine.   The vaccine is not a cure.  And until the majority of the population, I believe somewhere in the range of more than 75% get the vaccine, covid 19 will still be around.  That is also why we get the flu shot every year because the virus changes. We can read in the news about the new variant, that spreads more easily, which then necessitates wearing masks longer until the world gets a handle on the virus.


----------

