# To convert our resort to points or not?



## CaliDave (May 12, 2011)

I am on the board at a resort that is considering changing to a points affiliation. 

I have both RCI weeks and RCI points, however I am not all that happy with my points account. I am very happy with RCI weeks. At least I was until the "enhanced" it, but I'm still getting used to that. 

I do not want my bad points experiencing to sway my judgment and I want to do what is most beneficial for the owners. 

Can you please give me the good and the bad of changing our resort to RCI points? 

I did not put this topic under the points on purpose, as I feel this will give me a better mix of points and no points owners. 

Dave


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## tschwa2 (May 12, 2011)

I own at both points and weeks and like both.  

Owners who currently use PFD points for deposit would no longer be able to do so at your resort.  If the value that is given for most weeks is substantially less by going to points it could be a big negative.

Points may offer some owners who chose to enroll additonal flexibility but only if the resort charges less than $500 per conversion would I consider it beneficial for the owners.  Using a 3rd party vendor to market the conversion charging owners $1500-$3000 to convert, even if the HOA receives $500-$1500 of this money would not be a benefit to the owners.  3rd party vendors who stand to make 50% or more commission for something that can be bought for $1-$500 on ebay will tell owners anything to get them to convert and then owners who pay will not be happy when they don't get what they thought they were getting.


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## elaine (May 12, 2011)

I would do a sampling of the TPUs of your resort in weeks vs. the number of points you would get. Ex.--2BR spring/fall get 20 tpus, 2 Br low season gets 15 tpsu, 2 Br summer gets 30 tpus, etc. Then I would see how many points the same weeks would get. Then, do some investigating as to how many TPUs or points it takes to book a sampling of weeks.
For ex., my resort gets 32 TPUs on the weeks side and I can book Orlando for Easter for 22 units at a number of GC places. The same resort gets 72,500RCI points--but it takes me 94,000 points to book the Easter Orlando 2BR week.
Also, 2Brs seem to "cost" more on the points side, as described above, while 1BRs seems a bargain on points, as they are usually only 1-5 TPUs less than a 2Br on the weeks side.


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## ronparise (May 12, 2011)

Why are you considering converting to points? 

If there is a problem that needs solved, and the conversion to points moves you closer to a solution...then do it, if not... dont.


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## AwayWeGo (May 12, 2011)

*Major Money For Conversion?  Or Bargain Rates To Convert?*




CaliDave said:


> I do not want my bad points experiencing to sway my judgment and I want to do what is most beneficial for the owners.


How much $$$ do you plan on charging for conversion to RCI Points for those owners who want to convert their straight weeks to points?  

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


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## Carolinian (May 13, 2011)

The very worst thing about changing to points is imposing the Points Conversion Brokers on your owners, who will hound them unmercifully in ''owner updates'' and other means.  One of the things they do is really talk negative about non-points timeshare.  That has the potential to leave some of your members much more negative on what they have now than before the encounter with the RCI Master Points Conversion broker but not willing to fork over the dough to buy over again what they already own.  That makes that owner more likely to bail out.

I would say, no don't do it.

What I would suggest is making your owners aware of their ability to exchange through DAE, HTSE, PI, TPI, and (if applicable) SFX.  That gives them a lot more options.

In talking to the manager of a European resort, she told me that they had become a points resort, but made it clear to RCI that they would not tolerate any hard sales pitches to their members.  All they allowed the Points purveyors to do was a mailing, which they reviewed to be certain it did not trash the existing system, and the resort mailed it to keep the integrity of their member lists.  She said that controlled that way, the number of members who switched were in single digits, and at least two of those were by then extremely unhappy that they had done so.  The point is, that if you do, switch, you can and should keep the access to your members rigidly controlled.

For some insight on points, you may want to contact one of the longtime leaders of the European organization of RCI Points members, MORPS, who has recently been posting on another timeshare board that he has already taken 4 of his weeks out of RCI Points and moved to exchanging them through DAE, and is in the process of moving his final week to DAE.  He has not detailed his reasons, but said he found DAE to be better value and that he was pleased with his exchanges there.


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## ronparise (May 13, 2011)

I cant believe that converting existing owners to the points system for a one time fee is the reason resorts are moving to points. Or that they are converting to points to, in any way, help (or screw, as some might say) existing members. If existing owners are helped it has to be just a side effect of the conversion. 

I would think a resort is looking at converting to points because they have a problem with too many defaults, and foreclosures, or too many unsold developer units. The hope must be that a conversion will give some additional value to these weeks to  prevent  defaults in the first place or make the weeks they do own easier to sell. The idea has to be to get more units back into a fees paid status and spread the resorts  budget over a larger base.

Thats why I cant even begin to answer the OP's. question, because I dont know what they hope to get out of a conversion. If I knew that perhaps I could comment on the advisability of the plan


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## Carolinian (May 13, 2011)

There were two point systems brought in the the Outer Banks, both by developers.  Owner-run HOA's have not had much use for points.

At Outer Banks Beach Club I and II, Peppertree / Equivest had almost sold out both resorts as fixed weeks, so they took what little inventory they had left there, which wasn't much and was largely off season and used it as a basis to keep their sales office open selling Peppertree / Equivest points.  They toured people at the Beach Club, pumped them up that they could go there with their points, and then when they bought told them ''oh, don't worry that the underlying week we are deeding you is in Wisconsin (or whereever) because points are points''.  Of course, they tried the ''conversion'' routine but few existing owners fell for that one.  Ultimately, there were a lot of upset people because when they tried to use their points to go to the Beach Club in the summer they found there was no room at the inn because those weeks were almost all owned by fixed weeks owners, not the points club.  Equivest sold out to Fairfield, which the Beach Club HOA's then kicked out as management, replacing them with SPM.  Fairfield still owned the old Equivest sales office and tried to reopen it to sell Fairfield points.  The Beach Club would not let them on their property to tour, and Fairfield ended up paying the HOA at Seascape to take tours way up there.  There is lots of bad blood left over from the Equivest points, including a lawsuit that the Beach Club HOA's won that established that the underlying weeks deeded owners of the points weeks could vote in the HOA meetings instead of Equivest / Fairfield.  Fairfield eventually shut down its sales office.  That whole points escapade was all about a developer trying to keep selling after most of their real product was gone, did not help owners and certainly not the HOA's.

The other one was Barrier Island Station, again a developer looking for money, rather than any interest in helping the HOA or owners.  Most of the deal was about sales at the one resort of their three still in developer sales.  The other aspect was about churning among existing owners at all three resorts to try to squeeze some more money out of them.  The developer had dollar signs in its eyes over the ~$3,000 conversion fees.  The Barrier Island saga is itself interesting from a number of aspects, including bringing about a war between the NC Real Estate Commission and RCI, which ended with RCI waving a white flag, the developer doing a deal with RCI on points values that threw the higher demand ocean front BIS resorts under the bus on point values in order to inflate those of the inland resort that was still in developer sales, and the politicking by BIS and a group of other resorts with RCI to get higher points numbers than RCI had originally given them.




ronparise said:


> I cant believe that converting existing owners to the points system for a one time fee is the reason resorts are moving to points. Or that they are converting to points to, in any way, help (or screw, as some might say) existing members. If existing owners are helped it has to be just a side effect of the conversion.
> 
> I would think a resort is looking at converting to points because they have a problem with too many defaults, and foreclosures, or too many unsold developer units. The hope must be that a conversion will give some additional value to these weeks to  prevent  defaults in the first place or make the weeks they do own easier to sell. The idea has to be to get more units back into a fees paid status and spread the resorts  budget over a larger base.
> 
> Thats why I cant even begin to answer the OP's. question, because I dont know what they hope to get out of a conversion. If I knew that perhaps I could comment on the advisability of the plan


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## CaliDave (May 13, 2011)

Thanks for the responses..

Here is what I am understand in response to the ideas brought up here.

We only had 8 total PDF's in 2010
We are a small resort of 45 units, fixed unit, fixed weeks, 2000 owners

We have A LOT of foreclosed HOA owned units and our sales team, thinks they could sell more if they had the option of selling in points or weeks. 

I am told that there will be no cost to go with points or weeks for new sales, other than maybe the RCI $189 fee. 

We will not offer conversions for existing owners, unless they have done PDF in the past 3 years. If they have done that, it'll just be the basic RCI fee.

I am open to it, but I just haven't liked my ownership in points, but not everyone is the same.


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## T_R_Oglodyte (May 13, 2011)

My feeling is that the Board should give owners the maximum flexibility to do with their weeks whatever they want.  So, unless there is some compelling increase in operating cost associated with becoming a points resort, I see no reason not to make the change and allow owners to decide for themselves what is best.

Conveniently, I would think that would give maximum flexibility, and value, in the HOA resale program.


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## vacationhopeful (May 13, 2011)

I assume that the HOA foreclosures are not real desirable? Unit size, season, view? *Will RCI Points be successful with inventory which is "limited" to the unsold seasons and unit sizes?*

I own very desirable weeks at a RCI Points resort. Some of mine were converted by prior owners. I have brought more converted weeks in HIGH season in order to exchange back into HOME RESORT for a $40 exchange fee. I would spend that in 1 day for food; to book 12 months out is a reminder game - but it is trival as an exchange fee. Only HOME RESORT full 7 night stays have this lower exchange fee.

I like the "life" of a RCI Point. Borrow 1 year into the future; carry two years. No fees. Need points for a big trip? Save & borrow. Need a small unit - go for 2 weeks one year;1 week the next year. 

Do I like the Nightly Stay option - not really, but if the HOA sets the Housekeeping Charge to where it really does cover the costs of resetting the units .. you will be okay. 

I think you should offer a convinence conversion - buy a new week, convert your current week(s) for free.


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## AwayWeGo (May 13, 2011)

*Why Not Invite Existing Owners To Convert ?*




CaliDave said:


> We will not offer conversions for existing owners, unless they have done PDF in the past 3 years. If they have done that, it'll just be the basic RCI fee.


Shux, maybe some of the existing owners would really like to convert their weeks to points.  

Is there any downside to the timeshare if they do ? 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


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## ronparise (May 13, 2011)

CaliDave said:


> We have A LOT of foreclosed HOA owned units and our sales team, thinks they could sell more if they had the option of selling in points or weeks.



Ok, so now we know the problem that you and your fellow board members are trying to solve. It has nothing to do with what any of us think about the rci points program, or what a current owner may have to pay to convert. 

I assume that you know by now how many points will be attached to your weeks. And of course you know your maintenance fees.

As a potential buyer Im going to want know what these points are going to cost me  in annual maintenance fee dollars.  If it comes out to a penny a point or less, you have clearly added value and Im buying....., much more than that and I dont see the value added, and Im not

And if there is no added value your sales staff will still be unable to sell the weeks you own.


I just bought at a similar  small  resort with 2000 intervals, (it may be the same resort) The annual budget is $900000 billed to just  1350 paying owners. Do the math and you will see that my $665 maintenance fee would drop to under $500 if all 2000 weeks were productive. 

My resort is also planning a conversion to RCI points. I dont know what point values will be assigned, but I assume that my 2 bedroom unit will be worth about 45000 points...again do the math If all the units are sold, and all 2000 intervals are paying mf, the mf should drop to about $450 a year. ...a penny a point..and I think rci points priced at a penny a point mf is a salable product.... Im supporting  my resorts conversion to points


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## Carolinian (May 14, 2011)

AwayWeGo said:


> Shux, maybe some of the existing owners would really like to convert their weeks to points.
> 
> Is there any downside to the timeshare if they do ?
> 
> -- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​



The biggest downside is allowing RCI Points Conversion Master Broker sales weasels anywhere near your existing members.


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## Carolinian (May 14, 2011)

That is a huge issue.  Small points packages don't sell to thinking buyers.  The razzle dazzle of sales weasels may sell it, but then you end up with disgruntled owners when they discover that they can't do much with small points packages.  It was the disgruntled small points package owners that went ballistic with Sunterra, formed the Scottish Action Grooup Against Sunterra, set up the (now removed) Sunterrafied.com website, bought an old ambulance which they repainted as the ''Scambulance'' which  was used in conjunction with their picketing of Sunterra sales sites, etc.  They got so much negative publicity for Sunterra, that they were eventally paid off to go away.  While I doubt that you will have your own Scottish Action Group, you WILL have the disgruntled owners.  Small packages is where points is MOST useless.

The only place where selling small points packages made sense was the Texas resort that coupled them with South African weeks for PFD, which together made a viable package.  Selling them by themselves is just going to give your more bailouts down the road and the sales weasels a few commissions in the meantime.




vacationhopeful said:


> I assume that the HOA foreclosures are not real desirable? Unit size, season, view? *Will RCI Points be successful with inventory which is "limited" to the unsold seasons and unit sizes?*
> 
> I own very desirable weeks at a RCI Points resort. Some of mine were converted by prior owners. I have brought more converted weeks in HIGH season in order to exchange back into HOME RESORT for a $40 exchange fee. I would spend that in 1 day for food; to book 12 months out is a reminder game - but it is trival as an exchange fee. Only HOME RESORT full 7 night stays have this lower exchange fee.
> 
> ...


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## ronparise (May 14, 2011)

Carolinian said:


> The biggest downside is allowing RCI Points Conversion Master Broker sales weasels anywhere near your existing members.



This is not a factor in the resort converting. None of the existing owners may convert, or all of them may convert...it makes no difference. there are still a bunch of association held intervals.  What is important is: will a potential future owner see value in a week  with points attached when they didnt see value before. 

Call them weasels or professional sales professionals this resort needs to move some product and they need a sales staff to do it

By the way it is clearly in the existing owners best interest to add to their ownership and take one of these new and improved weeks..Why not offer it to them first


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## e.bram (May 14, 2011)

How are you going to explain to the RCI point buyers and converters(after telling them they could book any week) that most the PRIME weeks are owned as fixed weeks(who did not convert) and the points holders will have limited access to those PRIME weeks?


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## ronparise (May 14, 2011)

e.bram said:


> How are you going to explain to the RCI point buyers and converters(after telling them they could book any week) that most the PRIME weeks are owned as fixed weeks(who did not convert) and the points holders will have limited access to those PRIME weeks?



Im sure you know,  points work differently than that. You dont have to use your points just at your home resort, you can use them at any RCI resort.

You are right that if a buyer is convinced to buy points based on a set of lies, that there will be some explaining to do, but the lies dont have to be told to make a deal.  I bought a points contract, and no one talked to me at all. I did it all by myself for my own reasons.

The resort where I own, that is in the process of converting to points is in an all red week  location, so thats not a factor for us. But I realize that where there are lots of blue weeks the situation is different. In these situations I think the ideal buyer will be someone that owns a red week in the same resort and also owns an RCI points account based on other resorts. This will be an opportunity to add points to his points account and reduce his mf at the resort where the points conversion is being done 

Conversion wont turn a blue week into a red week, but if it can add a little value to that blue week , maybe someone will want it and be willing to pay the mf


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## vacationhopeful (May 14, 2011)

ronparise said:


> Im sure you know,  points work differently than that. You dont have to use your points just at your home resort, you can use them at any *POINTS* RCI resort *with availabilility*.....
> 
> ...Conversion wont turn a blue week into a red week, but if it can add a little value to that blue week , maybe someone will want it and be willing to pay the mf



Bold faced words are added to help clarify.

Additionally, when the resort originally sold these weeks and mostly likely offering these weeks NOW for sale, different prices are offered for both size of unit, VIEW, and season of year. Hence, different RCI Points values would be assigned to each combination offered.

At my RCI Points resort (which is declared all RED) there are different point values for different times of the year. I calculated that by reserving a 6/2 1 bdr unit vs my ownership of either a version of the 6/4 1 bdr units, I can save 2K-4.5K of points each time. Doesn't sound like much until I throw in the Studio units of 22.5K  - I need just 16K more points to get a 1bdr 6/2. So, if I deposit 5 lockoff units (both sides)and take the 6/2 privacy factor 1 bdrs, I end up with 8 1bdr units with an Home Resort exchange fees of $320.
Using 2011 MFs, that translates into $590 per week in the best season at my RCI Points resort. Reasonable 2 months of vacationing time vs renting a condo as my winter home.


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## e.bram (May 14, 2011)

All RED? Where? Yeah.


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## bogey21 (May 14, 2011)

e.bram said:


> How are you going to explain to the RCI point buyers and converters(after telling them they could book any week) that most the PRIME weeks are owned as fixed weeks(who did not convert) and the points holders will have limited access to those PRIME weeks?



Some (maybe many) people buy crap Weeks as an entree into RCI Points and have no intention of using the Resort.  I bought one such Week for $100 just to get into the RCI Points System.  IMO I benefited and the Resort benefited by getting MFs out of an otherwise unsalable Week they had taken back.

George


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## e.bram (May 14, 2011)

George:
We are talking conversion(big bucks) here , not a $1.00 resale where RCI points is an added bonus, since you have first dibs on your week. 
These conversion usually go along with a story that with points you can any week anywhere even though the PRIME weeks of any RCI resort are not converted  by their owners, and if converted usually used by their owners and not deposited.(see first dibs above).


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## Carolinian (May 14, 2011)

Small points packages hardly make a ''new and improved week''.  Otherwise you get upset owners when they realize these things are worthless, like the Scottish Action Group Against Sunterra mentioned above, and they were hardly the only ones.  Another upset buyer set up his own website, www.sunterror.com in which he blasted Sunterra.  Sunterra paid him off, too, to take down that website.

The only way you can take off season weeks and make them viable in points is to attach them to something that gives them enough points to make them viable.  A Texas resort did that by selling an offseason week at their resort converted to points at minimal cost together with some South African weeks, which with PFD made a viable package.  I beleive the resort was Rayburn Country.  Selling small points packages is only going to create unhappy owners.



ronparise said:


> This is not a factor in the resort converting. None of the existing owners may convert, or all of them may convert...it makes no difference. there are still a bunch of association held intervals.  What is important is: will a potential future owner see value in a week  with points attached when they didnt see value before.
> 
> Call them weasels or professional sales professionals this resort needs to move some product and they need a sales staff to do it
> 
> By the way it is clearly in the existing owners best interest to add to their ownership and take one of these new and improved weeks..Why not offer it to them first


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## "Roger" (May 14, 2011)

e.bram said:


> ...a story that with points you can any week anywhere even though the PRIME weeks of any RCI resort ....


Isn't this the story that they tell to sell *Weeks* accounts? 

"Look through this book with its wonderful list of locations.  You can trade red for red."


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## Carolinian (May 14, 2011)

All red does not mean a whole lot.  There are resorts in a number of overbuilt areas where many of those ''red'' weeks, which really should be light pink at the most, trade like blue weeks elsewhere.

For a resort that starts out all points, all seasons will be availible, but for conversions, most high season owners have the brains to know what they have is better than converting to points.  e.bram is right about that.




ronparise said:


> Im sure you know,  points work differently than that. You dont have to use your points just at your home resort, you can use them at any RCI resort.
> 
> You are right that if a buyer is convinced to buy points based on a set of lies, that there will be some explaining to do, but the lies dont have to be told to make a deal.  I bought a points contract, and no one talked to me at all. I did it all by myself for my own reasons.
> 
> ...


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## Carolinian (May 14, 2011)

"Roger" said:


> Isn't this the story that they tell to sell *Weeks* accounts?
> 
> "Look through this book with its wonderful list of locations.  You can trade red for red."



Actually, it is the line of BS that ALL t/s sales weasels use.


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## rickandcindy23 (May 14, 2011)

e.bram said:


> George:
> We are talking conversion(big bucks) here , not a $1.00 resale where RCI points is an added bonus, since you have first dibs on your week.
> These conversion usually go along with a story that with points you can any week anywhere even though the PRIME weeks of any RCI resort are not converted  by their owners, and if converted usually used by their owners and not deposited.(see first dibs above).



When did $189 become "big bucks?" 

I don't like RCI points now and see so many of them not getting bids on eBay.  I am sadly wishing I no longer owned mine.  I can get RCI Points inventory through other venues (like Shell), much cheaper, so my .012 per point is just too much money for the choices I get.  I used to be a fan of RCI Points.  This has changed drastically since I bought some great coastal weeks.   

How would you market the points?  What resort is it?  I feel for you, as a board member myself, because the burden is always on the board to figure out the next step for saving the resort.  Good luck to you.


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## Carolinian (May 14, 2011)

The OP should also consider whether his resort is now dual affiliated with both RCI and II.  I suspect that might be a better enticement than RCI Points. If if can qualify for SFX, push that one, too, although SFX won't help with the off season weeks.

Once I traded into Elmers Court Country Club in the UK, which had an onsite resale office for both HOA inventory and owner inventory.  Out of curiosity, I went to look at prices.  The resort was dual affiliated with RCI and II and also in RCI Points.  I did not give any indication about how I felt about exchange companies, but in his spiel, the sales rep launched into exchanging, said that resort owners there had had bad experiences with RCI Points, which he strongly advised against, and said that the best exchange company to use was II, and after them DAE.  I then noticed that they only had II posters on the wall, even though there were directories from both RCI and II on the counter.  They must have found II to be a better draw on resales than RCI Points.

You also might want to look at why 8 to 10 Australian resorts that initially affilated with RCI Points broke those affiliations all about the same time.  I think they still show as Points resorts, because anyone who had converted was allowed to continue in Points, but no new conversions were allowed.  Ask those resort managers why they decided after working with the product that RCI Points was not for them.

But fundamentally, RCI now has two points-based programs, with the differences fairly minor.  I suspect they will eventually merge them, so why bother to put in a second points program at your resort?  Better to give them a REAL weeks-based option.


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## Carolinian (May 14, 2011)

rickandcindy23 said:


> When did $189 become "big bucks?"
> 
> I don't like RCI points now and see so many of them not getting bids on eBay.  I am sadly wishing I no longer owned mine.  I can get RCI Points inventory through other venues (like Shell), much cheaper, so my .012 per point is just too much money for the choices I get.  I used to be a fan of RCI Points.  This has changed drastically since I bought some great coastal weeks.
> 
> How would you market the points?  What resort is it?  I feel for you, as a board member myself, because the burden is always on the board to figure out the next step for saving the resort.  Good luck to you.



I think the typical conversion fee, especially if an RCI Master Conversion Broker is involved is more like ~$3K.  A handful of resorts charge a small fraction of that, but not many.


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## AwayWeGo (May 14, 2011)

*Au Contraire, Mon Frère.*




Carolinian said:


> Selling small points packages is only going to create unhappy owners.


Depends on what points system you're talking about.  

DRI (SunTerra), Wyndham (FairField), etc., sure -- very possibly.

RCI, not necessarily.

I am not speaking from authority, just from experience & observation. 

That is, the dinkiest possible RCI Points package is fine with us because all we want is a toe-hold into the system for purposes of PFD &_ Instant Exchange_.  

By contrast, some of those dinky UDI points ownerships in DRI are next to worthless outside DRI's exchange club -- just about enough stand-alone points for an afternoon in the pool, according to 1 knowledgeable timeshare manager (who was exaggerating just for emphasis).  

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


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## AwayWeGo (May 14, 2011)

*That's What I Was Talking About.*




Carolinian said:


> A handful of resorts charge a small fraction of that, but not many.


I was assuming the OP's timeshare would elect to be part of that small fraction, not that they would arm-twist current owners into springing for exorbitant conversion charges. 

Any downside to the resort for offering _el cheapo_ conversions to existing owners ? 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


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## Carolinian (May 14, 2011)

AwayWeGo said:


> I was assuming the OP's timeshare would elect to be part of that small fraction, not that they would arm-twist current owners into springing for exorbitant conversion charges.
> 
> Any downside to the resort for offering _el cheapo_ conversions to existing owners ?
> 
> -- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​



The biggest downside is turning the conversion sales weasels loose on them.

But hen again, any resort ought to consult with those Australian resorts which got out of RCI Points after a couple of years experience with it.  I have never heard the full story on that, but I am sure there must be one.


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## e.bram (May 14, 2011)

Cindy:
The $189.00 conversion fee won't attract many weasels. How are you going to sell the conversions?


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## ronparise (May 14, 2011)

Carolinian said:


> Small points packages hardly make a ''new and improved week''.  Otherwise you get upset owners when they realize these things are worthless, like the Scottish Action Group Against Sunterra mentioned above, and they were hardly the only ones.  Another upset buyer set up his own website, www.sunterror.com in which he blasted Sunterra.  Sunterra paid him off, too, to take down that website.
> 
> The only way you can take off season weeks and make them viable in points is to attach them to something that gives them enough points to make them viable.  A Texas resort did that by selling an offseason week at their resort converted to points at minimal cost together with some South African weeks, which with PFD made a viable package.  I beleive the resort was Rayburn Country.  Selling small points packages is only going to create unhappy owners.



Im not suggesting that adding points to a piece of crap will do anything other than making it slightly less stinky. I do think however that less stinky may be the difference between being able to give it away and not. 

I like your idea of mating it with something that is more desirable and selling the package.


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## ronparise (May 14, 2011)

I guess the consensus here is that converting to points wont make it easier for the OP's resort to sell the weeks that have taken back in foreclosure

Does anyone have any ideas about what might work for them? short of closing the resort,


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## Carolinian (May 15, 2011)

Points just makes the stink much more obviious for those buying to trade.  As such it is counterproductive.  And, of course, it is useless or even an aggravation for those buying to use.

The best solution for off season weeks is to sell to non-exchangers, and that takes idenfifying a market.  The 45 day window used to be attractive to exchangers for off season weeks but that has been shot to hell in the Brave New World of RCI.

One good own-to-use market for off season weeks some places is to sell to locals to use the facilities year round.  The use week is just gravy not the main reason to buy.  Sometimes developers went after that market from the beginning like Wychnor Park where the developer marketed to locals by promoting their product as ''a country club that is also a timeshare''.  Local buyers may use the week just to get out of the house for a week, to house visiting freinds or relatives, or to exchange, but the main purpose to buy is to have yearround access to the amentities of the resort.  Every OBX resort, for example, has their local owners who have bought for this reason, but the resorts that have been far and away most successful in marketing to this group have been Outer Banks Beach Club I and II.

Your own off season own-to-use members may be a good source of resales, as they can relate to friends and relatives who might like to go at those times just like they do.  I have known of some resorts that have gotten resales during this period by creating incentives for this group of owners to promote resales among their friends and relatives, such as by offering to apply the entire $100 sales price the resort receives from those weeks to the next year's m/f of the member who provided the lead for the sale.

Another technique to get owners to take these weeks is the door prize technique.  Offer a chance to win one of these weeks as a door prize for the annual meeting, for example, to be drawn among those signing up for it and either attending in person or sending in proxies. For whatever reason, when we did this, every entry came from proxies instead of in-person attendees. Every person who signs up for the door prize becomes a ''winner'' and gets a week.  We got 5 to 8 to sign up every time we did it.  Because of the pschology of winning something of value, this works a heck of a lot better than begging members to take free weeks.

A resort should also analyze what groups come to their area out of season and then try to market to them.  For example, Ocean Villas I realized that December through February was duck hunting season on the Outer Banks, and there were a group of duck blinds on federal land that were availible on a first come first served basis by signing up a few miles from the resort, so they marketed off season weeks to duck hunters, for whom a timeshare was much more comfortable for their stay than a hotel room.

Without the 45-day window, marketing off season weeks to RCI exchangers is building on quicksand.  It is much better to go after own-to-use off season buyers.


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## Carolinian (May 15, 2011)

Most prospective timeshare buyers don't have either the knowledge or the extra timeshare weeks floating around for PFD to do what you did.

That is why for small points packages, the only practical way to sell them for trading is in a package with something that with PFD will bring the total to a useful number while keeping the m/f from being too high.  That is exactly what the Texas resort, in conjuction with a reseller, was able to do by pairing them with 3BR South African weeks.  Of course, the danger is that RCI will move the goalposts yet again, and the deal will not be so great anymore, leaving people wanting to bail out.

Just a small points package by itself is going to find few buyers in your category.




AwayWeGo said:


> Depends on what points system you're talking about.
> 
> DRI (SunTerra), Wyndham (FairField), etc., sure -- very possibly.
> 
> ...


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## e.bram (May 15, 2011)

Carolinian:
When RCI acquires all those SA weeks thru PFD, where does it get US weeks to give the PFDers? And what happens to those RCI (non PFD) point owners when there is shortage of US weeks. 
I assume not many(if any) US people want to go to South Africa or out on North America due to the travel expense.  .


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## Carolinian (May 16, 2011)

e.bram said:


> Carolinian:
> When RCI acquires all those SA weeks thru PFD, where does it get US weeks to give the PFDers? And what happens to those RCI (non PFD) point owners when there is shortage of US weeks.
> I assume not many(if any) US people want to go to South Africa or out on North America due to the travel expense.  .



RCI has its own office in South Africa, as does DAE and perhaps II (not sure about II).  There are lots of South Afticans and Europeans who want to go to South Africa.  In fact, before they opened their South African office, DAE had a South African specialist on staff in their European office to handle South African exchanges, and they developed trading partners in South Aftica that allowed them to access inventory there which was not in their own spacebank.  As to availibility, the almost 200 resorts in South Aftica typically have all together about the same level of weeks availible in RCI as just one Orlando resort, Vacation Village at Parkway.  Untill the recent crappy digital substitute replaced it, the old printed RCI Europe directory contained  supply / demand charts that showed that South Africa had more demand relative to supply than Orlando did.

In another area, before it morphed into Rents Condos Instead, RCI had an interesting way of handling the fact that there was more demand for Europe relative to supply than for the US.  They gave their European members 2-for-1 exchange credits if they would deposit their European weeks and then take their exchanges in North America.  While that went out the window about the time the rentals to non-members came in, RCI still does ring fence some of its European deposits that are not made availible to North American members so that Americans will not gobble up all the better European inventory.


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## e.bram (May 16, 2011)

Carolinian: 
What you are implying is that there is now enough surplus US inventory to cover the PFDs , pure exchangers and foreign demand, probably from unused points and developer donations. Because of the economy , development has slowed(stopped) and people paying for unused points will eventually cease paying. This will eventually  curtail that inventory and force RCI to adopt a new paradigm.


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## Carolinian (May 16, 2011)

e.bram said:


> Carolinian:
> What you are implying is that there is now enough surplus US inventory to cover the PFDs , pure exchangers and foreign demand, probably from unused points and developer donations. Because of the economy , development has slowed(stopped) and people paying for unused points will eventually cease paying. This will eventually  curtail that inventory and force RCI to adopt a new paradigm.



No, I am saying that supply has to be looked at globally and demand has to be looked at globally, because you can't split hairs by national lines any more than you can by, say, state lines.  Does it really matter how many people from Ohio want to trade into Viriginia?  What matters is the totality of supply for Virginia versus the totality of demand from all sources for Virginia.  And it is imposible to look at it on a bilateral basis from any two points because each is only a fraction of total demand.


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## e.bram (May 16, 2011)

Carolinian:
You said what I said in a different way. ie. I did it with specificity and you in general terms.


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## garyk01 (Jul 5, 2011)

*Points*

I say , if owners want a points resort they can buy into it somewhere else and trade with that, why make week owners have to convert and thus more costs to change over. If you want to offer both fine, but do not convert to points 100% , not fair to those on the week system.


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