# Elderly parent believes PRC subsidizes travel. Need help.



## ScoopKona (Dec 1, 2013)

We're heading to China again. 

My mother in law insists that the PRC "subsidizes" travel to China -- package tours that include ridiculous "timeshare-like" mandatory shopping trips. 

Personally, I don't like package tours. But mother-in-law is too old to rush to connecting flights and transfers. So if we want to go with her (and we do) it's going to be some sort of tour.

In order to get the kind of of tour that interests us (no time spent in silk factories, pearl factories, tea factories or mummified deer fetus factories -- yes, mummified deer fetus factories), we need to PROVE CONCLUSIVELY that the PRC does not subsidize travel.

These cheap(er) tours ARE subsidized -- by the mandatory shopping venues who push mummified deer fetuses on unsuspecting visitors.

Please point me to a web page, preferably in Chinese, that outlines this scam. This will make my life considerably easier!

Thanks!


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## lily28 (Dec 2, 2013)

It is actually not scam. We did 2 of these tours, and friends and family members have done them as well.  We did a 8 days Beijing with 2 side trips to Tianjin and a summer retreat place 2 years ago for $99 include tours and accommodation.  Tips and airfare to china were not included.  We were taken to shopping stores everyday, but we don't have to buy anything.  We did end up buying some silk comforters and some jade jewelry.  Since it was more than a week in Beijing, even with the shopping, we have enough time for the different sightseeing.   We also joined a 7 days tour of shanghai, hangzhou, Suzhou, Nanking tour this summer for $49. I won't recommend this tour since half day in each of these cities is not absolutely not enough for first timer and I have been to these cities before.  
To buy these subsidized tour, you have to be Chinese American from the us, Canada or Australia.  Americans who are not Chinese have to pay higher price.  The tours are conducted in Chinese ( mandarin or Cantonese).

Before these subsidized tours, we have joined different tours to china in order to see more places or unusual places at much higher prices.  All those tours still took us to different stores for shopping

I booked these subsidized tours via travel agents at major cities.  I have seen these tours advertised at San Francisco, los Angeles and Chicago.


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## ScoopKona (Dec 4, 2013)

I have been TOLD by many people that the Chinese Government is not subsidizing these shopping trips. People who are in the travel industry and have no reason (at all) to say this.

Frankly, it doesn't make any sense that the government would fund "shopping" tours. I'm just looking for it in writing, as it would make a difference to my mother in law.

These "shopping" tours are basically the same as timeshare mini-vacations, except there are three-to-five timeshare presentations instead of one. The tour operator acts as a timeshare OPC for these various silk, jade and medicine factories. The factories pay off the tour operator, who then uses some of the money to discount the tour. This is SOP in the timeshare industry. It's just been raised to the next level in China. The reason only Chinese-Americans may take these tours is because other groups aren't likely to purchase the traditional medicine and very expensive souvenirs sold at these mandatory factory visits.

There is a persistent belief that this is somehow government sponsored. It isn't.


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## VacationForever (Dec 4, 2013)

The question is does it matter who is subsidizing the cost?  "We need to PROVE CONCLUSIVELY that the PRC does not subsidize travel." Unless there is a strong fundamental issue against the PRC government, why worry.

If you don't want to waste your time on these mandatory factory visits, then just take the non-subsidized tours.  Also, at major hotels throughout Beijing/Shanghai/etc., there are personal/private tours to various historical attractions that do not include the silk shop/factory visits.


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## ScoopKona (Dec 4, 2013)

I don't worry about it. My mother-in-law does, though. For some reason, getting a discounted tour from the government is OK if it includes shopping trips. But getting a discounted tour from the factories because of the shopping trips is somehow different. I've quit trying to understand it, I just try to be patient.

I have no intention of taking a shopping tour. My time is too valuable. Because we don't have 20 hours of "factory shopping" (that's what it ends up being on a 12-day tour), that's one full extra day doing the things we want to do.

As I said, I'm just looking to put her mind at ease about it.


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## lily28 (Dec 5, 2013)

The tour guide I have in shanghai told us that our tour was subsidized by both the Chinese government and the shops. I did not verify this as I know for sure someone was subsidizing my tour as the 2 days we stayed at the JC Mandarin hotel at Shanghai as part of the tour would cost multiple of the $49 I paid.  I also have to paid $80 in mandatory excursions plus $10/ day in tips.

Again, even the unsubsidized China tours I joined in the U.S. Has shopping stops at different cities.  The only way to avoid shopping is to have individual tour.  When my daughter is a baby (2006), our family member hired a taxi for about $100 per day to take us around Beijing for sightseeing.


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## davhu1 (Dec 5, 2013)

Who subsidized is irrelevant.  The points is that when you join this type of tour, you will be taken to shopping.  The pressure to buy depends on your tour and the tour guide.  It is not a scam.  

My brother combined three of these tours last October and enjoyed.  His tour groups were large, over 30 people.  There was no pressure to buy.  For such large group, there is always someone buying.  They stayed is the same 5 start hotel we stayed in.

Two years ago, we joined a regular tour and spent $2,300 per person for a 16-day tours.  Even with a non-subsidized tour, we were also taken shopping each day but no pressure in buying. 

The $10 per day tipping is pretty standard even for a non-subsidized tour. Tip is split among national guide, local guide and driver. But if there is no national guide, the tip can be drop to $6-$7.

We also just came back from a 6-day tour of Zhangjiajie (where they filmed Avatar) in November.  We took a private tour of just 4 people.  Not much more expensive, 2400 RMB or ~$400. *No shopping*.  Flights and lunch/dinner not included. We also learned that you can hire a local tour guide for 300 RMB per day (100 RMB more if English tour guide) if you want to tour on your own.  Our tour guide also mention that China passed a new law that tour operator cannot force tourist to go shopping if they do not want.  (If that is true, then it would suggest that government subsidizing the tours is probably not true but the tour operators may be using it to sound better if the gov subsidizing rather than the shops.)

ScoopLV:  Maybe you should consider a private tour.  It gives you the flexibility to change your tour schedule.  We moved our itinerary around due to rain and no issues.  We also decide what time to leave in the morning. Days we are tired or stay out late, we sleep late.


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