# RCI Points, 2 questions: 1. Cheapest for PFD, 2. Changes in PFD point values



## rickandcindy23 (Jun 22, 2009)

http://www.rci.com/docs/KnowledgeBase/Attachments/2009_ConversionGrids.pdf

So this new grid is on the first page of the Help topics.  No need to search for it.  I find it quite hard to understand and very easy for RCI to downgrade red weeks to lesser points.  What do y'all think?  They don't have exact numbers anymore for the Rocky Mountains, just a range for most unit sizes.  Then the summer 3 bedrooms seem to have no range for some months.   

Next, as far as Points for Deposit resorts, which are worth owning (not counting South Africa resorts).  I am interested in U.S. myself.  The cheapest ones I have found are at Twin Rivers, but what other resorts are as low as TR at about 8/10 of a cent per point.  

RCI Points still has DVC, California and good Hawaii weeks, plus no 1-in-? rules with RCI Points, so that is why I am more interested in PFD for now.  Those are our favorite vacations.

If you don't already have points and are interested in them, please see BillR on TUG, bill_riney@yahoo.com, and he will set you up at Club Trinidad.  I personally own points in Australia, but I would have gone with Bill, had I known what I now know.


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## djyamyam (Jun 22, 2009)

So why are you posting this again when you posted about this 4 months ago and the link was discussed then?

http://69.16.236.4/~tugbbsc/forums/showthread.php?t=92508


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## rickandcindy23 (Jun 22, 2009)

Because RCI told Bill Riney that the grid I found on RCI's website in that post is wrong, and he asked me where I found it.  

I think RCI is going to adjust Points on us, and that range of points is just sitting there like a warning.  

I would also like to know what resorts have lowest fees for PFD, because I want to reduce my cost for exchanges.  I just still need prime weeks, not shoulder, Pink weeks.


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## richardm (Jun 23, 2009)

Sounds like someone's using the threads to advertise the free weeks at Twin Rivers.. I didn't understand the plug for Club Trinidad, though.. Perhaps Bill's paying referral fees now.. 

For what it's worth, the Twin Rivers inventory is a pretty good value. Free and low annual fees if you can use the weeks that are left in the HOA hopper.. Most of the branded Colorado resorts have gotten pretty pricey on the annual assessments.


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## rickandcindy23 (Jun 23, 2009)

I know of one other resort that has lower fees, but most are gone at this time. It was Pines at Meadowridge, and some of the summer weeks were at 38,000 points for $224 maintenance fees.  That's cheap.

If anyone knows of any weeks with a better value for PFD, then let me know, because this isn't about Twin Rivers.  We own two weeks that we use at Twin Rivers, and I have no intention of taking any additional weeks there.  Two is enough for one resort, even when I am on the board.  

I just want to get my best value for RCI Points, in answer to RCI's current trend of devaluing weeks, which always pulled Disneys, Richard.  This is part of my strategy in really taking advantage of what I can get........  I am selling as many of my others weeks as I can, and these are the ones I used to trade through RCI, which II still doesn't take.   

I would like something LOWER in fees than Twin Rivers, and I am worried about that new grid, too.  

Bill Riney has a great deal on points, and no long-term commitment.  I have no idea how I would go about selling my Aussie points, and the fees go up with the value of the U.S. dollar.  Of course, I am not trying to sell anything and get nothing from Bill.  I actually wish I would have gotten in on the bigger packages he offered in the beginning, but what's left is a good entry, without a long closing process.


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## richardm (Jun 23, 2009)

$224! Do you have to bring your own generator?   And I thought the HOA at Twin Rivers ran on a tight budget.....

I'd still recommend you stick with TR- they've got a really good group of board members!  

Tree Tops in Bushkill is also trying to liquidate some foreclosures- so they have basically free rci points right now as well. Fees are around $650 for the 2BR villa.

With all these super-cheap rci points on the market- you have to wonder if some developers won't start moving away from the program to try and protect their sales..


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## Bill4728 (Jun 23, 2009)

This is the same link as the one you posted in March and is in the "sticky" thread at the top of the "points" board.


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## rickandcindy23 (Jun 23, 2009)

richardm said:


> $224! Do you have to bring your own generator?   And I thought the HOA at Twin Rivers ran on a tight budget.....
> 
> I'd still recommend you stick with TR- they've got a really good group of board members!
> 
> ...



Seriously, Richard, this isn't about Twin Rivers. 

How many points do you get at Tree Tops for the maintenance fees?  Do they have a stable fee, good HOA board, etc.?

Now see, Philip (PA- here on TUG) keeps telling me that maintenance fees must be at less than 1 cent per point, or no one would want our weeks, so we RE-PRICED our maintenance fees to amounts that are both equal and < 1 cent per point.  I told him no other resort has as good a value, but he says many resorts do, and that we needed to reduce our fees to be in the ballgame. 

I need to challenge him to find some examples of resorts with lower fees, because no one on TUG can find them.  I asked Philip if he thinks inflation hasn't hit timeshares.   Seriously, this is an argument between Philip and I on fees, which he thinks are still too high!


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## cr4909 (Jun 23, 2009)

richardm said:


> $224! Do you have to bring your own generator?   And I thought the HOA at Twin Rivers ran on a tight budget.....



It increased to a whopping $228 for this year  Actually, this is for a Sept week that PMR considers blue but RCI still considers it RED.  So you're paying Blue season MF's and getting Red season point values.  It's a dog week for sure but great for last minute exchanges or PFD.


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## richardm (Jun 23, 2009)

I was just poking a little fun at you! 

I think Philip is right in the short run only, as buyers are really researching to the  hilt right now- and someone along the way stated that a penny a point is where fees should be (I blame Scott Riddle partially, and those resellers that were pushing the S. African points!) Everyone wants a bargain- so buyers in the current market are looking for fees less than that ridiculous number!

In the long view- I think you are correct that fees have to push above that threshold.. You can't strangle the HOA forever- and resorts that try to do so generally run into maintenance and upkeep issues in the future. I love your ideas about fee levels based on season- not sure how you implement it- but it certainly makes sense!

The $220. number just doesn't make sense to me. Let me put it very simply- I most likely would not ask my family to stay in a motel that only charged me around $30. per night! (How many others would drive right by as well!)..  Somehow- though- people want their timeshare villa to cost the same??? Just seems a bit foolish to me.. Your lodging should cost more than a good dinner and a few drinks.. 

If you are on a Holiday Inn budget (no offense intended to Orange Lake- well, maybe just a little! !)) - perhaps you shouldn't own a timeshare!


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## richardm (Jun 23, 2009)

*Apologies! No offense intended..*



cr4909 said:


> It increased to a whopping $228 for this year  Actually, this is for a Sept week that PMR considers blue but RCI still considers it RED.  So you're paying Blue season MF's and getting Red season point values.  It's a dog week for sure but great for last minute exchanges or PFD.



Please accept my apologies, cr4909.. No offense intended on your Rayburn (which I bet you bought from Scott!)..  I saw your post after I hit the "enter" key.  I give you credit- based on the resorts shown under your ID- you are very savvy and watch your expenses. Jack Benny would be envious!

There is nothing wrong with being wise with your dollars.. I just think that resorts that strive to keep fees at these extremely low levels may be setting owners up for big surprises later on. I hope I'm wrong, but the worry is still there. 

I have the same kind of wacky thoughts about resorts that over compensate with amenities. Onsite water parks are one of my current pet peeves.. Developers build them and in turn sell more ownerships- then toss the resort to the HOA. My worry is that the developer will push maintenance and upkeep into the future- (not to mention future liability insurance) creating a financial quagmire for the HOA fifteen or twenty years down the road.


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## robertr55 (Jun 23, 2009)

rickandcindy23 said:


> Seriously, Richard, this isn't about Twin Rivers.
> 
> How many points do you get at Tree Tops for the maintenance fees?  Do they have a stable fee, good HOA board, etc.?
> 
> ...



Not being a long-term owner yet, I can't say much about a good HOA board or stable fees, but the Grandview in Las Vegas has a pretty good $/point value. My 1bdrm gives me 49,000 points for a yearly maint fee of $320 (not as good as yours, but less that 1 cent per point)...but out of their 4 tiers of maint fee/seasons, mine is #2, so if I'd paid more originally to get the highest season 1bdrm, I'd be getting 61,000 points for the same $320. (same thing for 2bdrm, with points/fee doubled)


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## tschwa2 (Jun 23, 2009)

*No Europe, Asia or Australia in Conversion grid*

Anyone know why they didn't include Europe, Asia, or Australia in the latest grid?  I know in the past RCI was very picky in Europe as to the actual week and not by month or season.


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## cr4909 (Jun 24, 2009)

richardm said:


> Please accept my apologies, cr4909.. No offense intended on your Rayburn (which I bet you bought from Scott!)..  I saw your post after I hit the "enter" key.  I give you credit- based on the resorts shown under your ID- you are very savvy and watch your expenses. Jack Benny would be envious!



Ha!  Guilty on all counts.



richardm said:


> I just think that resorts that strive to keep fees at these extremely low levels may be setting owners up for big surprises later on. I hope I'm wrong, but the worry is still there.



Yep, and that was a big concern.  But from what I've heard from other owners and judging from the reviews, it seems to be a well-run standard resort.  They charge their MF's according to historical demand for a week, as many CO resorts do.  And I have been lucky.  I used to own at Peregrine (another bargain-basement timeshare just to get into RCI Points), but I dumped it a few years ago, well before the hurricane last year leveled the place.  And, remarkably, the exchange rate for South Africa improved considerably from when I bought my SA resort.  

But if and when the game changes and the RCI gods change the rules again or I get socked with a big SA, then I'll simply come up with a new plan.  It's not as if I've invested a lot of $$$ anyway.  And I've been happy with my vacations to date.


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## rickandcindy23 (Jun 24, 2009)

This is the resort in Vegas that is related to Vacation Village at Parkway, isn't it?  I have always been worried about VVP's situation with maintenance fees, since they are the cheapest in Orlando, and I think they are one of the top five in RCI for Orlando.  But as many as they cram into that small space, perhaps they aren't undercharging for fees.  And maybe they will never be done building.   

That's a great deal for fees.  I remember Wapato Point being the ideal way back when, but then everyone seemed to have jumped ship on that one. 




robertr55 said:


> Not being a long-term owner yet, I can't say much about a good HOA board or stable fees, but the Grandview in Las Vegas has a pretty good $/point value. My 1bdrm gives me 49,000 points for a yearly maint fee of $320 (not as good as yours, but less that 1 cent per point)...but out of their 4 tiers of maint fee/seasons, mine is #2, so if I'd paid more originally to get the highest season 1bdrm, I'd be getting 61,000 points for the same $320. (same thing for 2bdrm, with points/fee doubled)


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## cclendinen (Jun 25, 2009)

*Lowest Maintenance cost-per-point on PDF.*

If you are looking for the lowest maintenance cost-per-point for PDF, I would look at resorts in the Georgia, North Carolina, South Carolina and Virgina.  These have very high conversion points for their grid category and maintenance cost do not seem as high as the other high point conversion areas like Hawaii.

Look at Gold Grown red week resorts that have a lockout configuration the more bedrooms the better.  The maximum points is for a Gold Crown 3br red week 78,000 points.  But if you had a 4br lockout you can split it and deposit it as two 2brs and get 60,500 + 60,500 = 121,00 points.


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## rickandcindy23 (Jun 25, 2009)

Are you talking about Massanutten resorts?  Those can be used for Points for Deposit?  Do you own there, and what are the maintenance fees?  

We do own a 2 bedroom at Blue Ridge Village, and it is Silver Crown with RCI, but it is still right at 1 cent per point, no cheaper than that.  Of course, I would be better off with points for the week than as a trader in RCI.  RCI isn't going to value that week anymore than they did Foxrun.


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## tschwa2 (Jun 25, 2009)

It would be crazy for RCI to give 121,000 points for 2 -2bedroom summer lockouts at Woodstone at Massanutten (but that's what the conversion chart suggests).  MF are in the $500 range for the 4 bedroom unit.  Its a nice enough resort and the area is pretty and driveable for a large portion of the East Coast but because they rely on fees both for owners and exchangers for nearly 100%  of the activities (one small pool was available without a fee when I was there in the fall), it doesn't make it a good trade in for almost everyone (only last call and super lousy traders).  That's why the trading power for weeks is so low.  Whereas Smuggs might charge exchangers $250 per unit for the summer pools/waterpark, you would need to count on at least $200 per person at Massanutten.


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## janej (Jun 25, 2009)

tschwa2 said:


> It would be crazy for RCI to give 121,000 points for 2 -2bedroom summer lockouts at Woodstone at Massanutten (but that's what the conversion chart suggests).  MF are in the $500 range for the 4 bedroom unit.  Its a nice enough resort and the area is pretty and driveable for a large portion of the East Coast but because they rely on fees both for owners and exchangers for nearly 100%  of the activities (one small pool was available without a fee when I was there in the fall), it doesn't make it a good trade in for almost everyone (only last call and super lousy traders).  That's why the trading power for weeks is so low.  Whereas Smuggs might charge exchangers $250 per unit for the summer pools/waterpark, you would need to count on at least $200 per person at Massanutten.



MF at the Woodstone went up from $460 last year to about $600 this year.  Activities at Massanutten do cost extra, but you don't have to pay to use the pool.  The kid's camp at Smuggs would cost a lot more than the activities cards at Massanutten.


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## cclendinen (Jun 26, 2009)

*PDF for 4br Woodstone at Massanutten*



janej said:


> MF at the Woodstone went up from $460 last year to about $600 this year.  Activities at Massanutten do cost extra, but you don't have to pay to use the pool.  The kid's camp at Smuggs would cost a lot more than the activities cards at Massanutten.



If the maintenance is $600 that is cheap for a 4br gold crown.  So if you split this and deposit it into RCI weeks as two two bedrooms for a red week that is $600.00 / 121,000 points = $.00495 a point. 

Less than 1/2 a cent a point is great maintenance cost-per-point.  If woodstone is not a great trader I would say it has better value as a PDF to point then exchanging in weeks.


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## SteveChapin (Jun 28, 2009)

A CMV Cottage UDI has the following costs (A CMV UDI ownership allows owners to reserve multiple weeks per year, with a base MF and then a housekeeping fee of $48 for each week reserved):

MF:  $858.
Cost to produce 3 red weeks and 1 white for PFD:  $192.

Points generated:  3 * 43,500 + 28,500 = 159,000.

Cost per point:  $.0066 per point.

It is mathematically impossible to produce 4 red weeks per year from a single UDI ownership and get maximal PFD points (one can reserve red weeks in week 21, 37, and 52, which all have > 90 day gaps between them; the other red season, in February, is within the 90 day window of the Christmas/NY season).  Thus, the white week.

As a side benefit, one can generate additional white weeks (at $48/week for the housekeeping fee) for weeks trading in a variety of exchange companies.

Personally, I don't use my UDIs this way; I am happy to just use white weeks for PFD (4 * 28,500 = 114,000, or a little over $.009/point), and then rent the red weeks or deposit them for better trades in RCI Weeks, II, et al.  Renting even 1 red week drops the price per point dramatically, but by how much depends on the rental price.  A $500 last-minute rental of a red week cuts the price/point below $.005 in the 114,000 point scenario.  Renting two such weeks means points for the year are essentially free.

sc
--


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## dabo_gc (Jul 25, 2009)

Wow, this thread and folks here are great!! Thank you very much for your information.

I am very new to TS and studyind how to get good value TS.

Everybody says RCI point system is usefull and tell me to get good Point/MF ratio. But nobody showed me the examples.

I am with my money on my hand and look for good deal but it is not easy to find good one. I think 3 year lease is very good for me to bigin with, but the problem is I cann't contact with Bill. I wrote him twice, but no reply. I start to wonder if it is safe to buy from person like this. May be he is very busy or on his vacation. But I believe as long as he wanted to do business, he should set his e-mail system to auto-reply mode to let people know what was going on. I don't want to deal with the person who don't know the basic of business.

Well, let me thank you again. You folks showed me good examples here, so I'll try to get something like yours.

I am not expecting too good ratio like 0.5cent/point. Maybe 0.8cent/point with $1000-3000 initial would be good enough for biginer like me.

If there is any TS which you can recommend me to start with. Please let me know.

I am very lucky I could find this thread.


dabo_gc


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## rickandcindy23 (Jul 26, 2009)

Bill is probably not answering emails because he cannot set up RCI point accounts until later this year.  There are no points to give right now, because the resort is in its high season.  

I have talked to him on the phone many times, and others on TUG have signed up for the point leases, and he has no unhappy customers, from what I know about it.


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## dabo_gc (Jul 27, 2009)

I hope Bill will contact me before I change my mind.

rickandcindy23, you will be appreciated very much if you could introduce some TS which you think it's good value.

Best regards,


dabo_gc


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## quest (Aug 7, 2009)

When lookign at a resale how do you determine which Grandview tier it is in? By the week? If so what would a week 50 pull as far as points go? The most I see on the RCI grid is 43,500 for a one bedroom. Thanks! 



robertr55 said:


> Not being a long-term owner yet, I can't say much about a good HOA board or stable fees, but the Grandview in Las Vegas has a pretty good $/point value. My 1bdrm gives me 49,000 points for a yearly maint fee of $320 (not as good as yours, but less that 1 cent per point)...but out of their 4 tiers of maint fee/seasons, mine is #2, so if I'd paid more originally to get the highest season 1bdrm, I'd be getting 61,000 points for the same $320. (same thing for 2bdrm, with points/fee doubled)


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## robertr55 (Aug 7, 2009)

quest said:


> When lookign at a resale how do you determine which Grandview tier it is in? By the week? If so what would a week 50 pull as far as points go? The most I see on the RCI grid is 43,500 for a one bedroom. Thanks!



Hopefully this chart from RCI of weeks/points/1-2bdrm shows in a readable format. You're asking about week 50, which is part of the "lowest tier" (least number of points) group.

Grandview at Las Vegas*-*#6923		
Week	     1b	          2b
1 - 2     	     30,500	     61,000
3 - 8	     40,000	     80,000
9 - 37	     49,000	     98,000
38 - 45	     61,000	     122,000
46 - 47	     40,000	     80,000
48 - 50	     30,500	     61,000
51	     49,000	     98,000
52	     61,000	     122,000

OK...I can't seem to make the columns match up above...I hope it makes sense.


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## tschwa2 (Aug 7, 2009)

*Beware of unconverted weeks*



quest said:


> When lookign at a resale how do you determine which Grandview tier it is in? By the week? If so what would a week 50 pull as far as points go? The most I see on the RCI grid is 43,500 for a one bedroom. Thanks!



A resale ad should tell you the points associated with the week and it should correlate to the week on the points chart in the RCI resort directory (sometime room configurations vary and there are slight discrepancies from the chart).  If the ad only mentions the week it is probably an unconverted week which would only be able to be used as a week’s resort (no PFD) unless you pay a fee to convert it to points.  This often requires a $2995 “conversion fee” from the resort.  If you want points buy a week that has already been converted and make sure that the points information appears on the contract and get confirmation from the resort.


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## quest (Aug 9, 2009)

Thank you for the help. I understand how to figure out what the PFD value would be. The one I found was the lowest tier so Ill pass. Thanks! 


robertr55 said:


> Hopefully this chart from RCI of weeks/points/1-2bdrm shows in a readable format. You're asking about week 50, which is part of the "lowest tier" (least number of points) group.
> 
> Grandview at Las Vegas*-*#6923
> Week	     1b	          2b
> ...


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## quest (Aug 9, 2009)

I currently have a point account with 77k points a year. Im looking for a cheap unconverted week that I can use to deposit for points and get over 100k a year. Thanks for the advice! 


tschwa2 said:


> A resale ad should tell you the points associated with the week and it should correlate to the week on the points chart in the RCI resort directory (sometime room configurations vary and there are slight discrepancies from the chart).  If the ad only mentions the week it is probably an unconverted week which would only be able to be used as a week’s resort (no PFD) unless you pay a fee to convert it to points.  This often requires a $2995 “conversion fee” from the resort.  If you want points buy a week that has already been converted and make sure that the points information appears on the contract and get confirmation from the resort.


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