# Key West (and elsewhere) Properties Not Habitable



## Kal (Mar 31, 2020)

For an undefined period of time the three Key West properties cannot be occupied.  The maintenance fees have been paid for all those unit-weeks, therefore the owners/renters have suffered a loss through no fault of their own.  Those funds have been taken by Hyatt.

So what options are available to those owners?  The best option would be for Hyatt to refund those maintenance fees.  In that case, do those funds come from the HOA or Hyatt?  I can't see a situation where insurance would cover the loss.

The likely option would be where Hyatt instructs the owner to "get over it".

We can also explore the impact to the Portfolio Program.  That program has a serious problem where many deposited weeks have no value and the inventory has an unanticipated loss.


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## Sapper (Mar 31, 2020)

Speculation here. Hyatt tells owners they now have a bunch of points to use before their now unusable week, then the points are LCUP. If Hyatt were feeling generous, they would make the points stay in CUP for an additional six months or a year. Hyatt (HRC) is now owned by Marriott, who historically have done little for their owners in bad time. If you look in the MVC forum, they are offering their owners a week in II for their impacted use week.


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## AJCts411 (Mar 31, 2020)

"So what options are available to those owners?  The best option would be for Hyatt to refund those maintenance fees.  In that case, do those funds come from the HOA or Hyatt?  I can't see a situation where insurance would cover the loss."

What does history tell us?  During the last hurricane event, KW proprieties were closed. Did insurance cover this?  

I will likely get clobbered for this thinking, but each individual owner faces a risk during these disasters.  While as owners we need to be treated fairly, looking to a Marriott for a bailout doesn't seem reasonable.  Would we as owners object to a line item in the annual maintenance fees of x% to cover future disasters, fund closing costs for OWNERS for 6 months?  
On the other hand, is the manager of the property (Marriott) taking reasonable actions to reduce costs, staff during the restrictions?  I recognize that certain maintenance of the property is necessary, but those savings should be refunded to the owners of the weeks affected, not pocketed by the property manger (Marriott)

I think that Marriott has a legal and moral responsibility to mitigate costs, and NOT grab 100% of their piece of the pie.   Unfortunate and complex issue for sure.


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## Kal (Mar 31, 2020)

Will have to think about the actual cost savings during the closure of each property.  My guess is the staff continue to receive full pay even though unemployment compensation would save labor costs to the HOA.  Any savings should definitely compensate the impacted owners rather than appear as an across the board reduction of MF for next year.  Owners for non-impacted weeks would realize benefits at the expense of the impacted owners.

Hyatt still receives their substantial fees during this period even when the resorts are closed.  Does anyone actually think Hyatt would credit those fees back to the HOA?  Not gonna happen.


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## socaltimeshare (Mar 31, 2020)

A deeded week timeshare is akin to buying a house.  If there was sort of natural disaster that prevented my house from being habitable I would rely on the insurance I purchased.  It seems for timeshares there is similar insurance- https://www.vacationguard.com/

They state on their website “We are the #1 protection choice for timeshares and winter and summer resorts – but savvy vacationers love VacationGuard®, too.”


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## IslandTime (Apr 2, 2020)

A few years ago, a friend's owned week at Sunset Harbor was impacted due to a hurricane - they got their points back in LCUP and that was it.  I actually think that may have happened to them twice.

Look at the HRC in Puerto Rico that suffered heavy damage during Hurricane Irma. They haven't even reopened yet and from what I understand, the owners have continued to pay their maintenance fees yet still have not had use of their week(s) since 2017.  Their only option has been to use their points to book elsewhere.  

While you can technically exchange into another location, who knows when anything will be back to "normal".  Even though we aren't supposed to travel, some HRC resorts remain open but have very limited amenities available.  For instance, we could have theoretically kept our 4/4 reservation for Maui but the pool, hot tub, etc. (basically everything) is closed - as are the beaches and restaurants are open for take out only (pretty much like a lot of the country right now).  However, upon arrival (had our flight not been canceled) we would be under a 14 day mandatory quarantine and would have to stay in our rooms.  Not exactly the vacation of my dreams I had imagined.  

We used our points to rebook a week in August at Sunset Harbor - and August may not even be far enough out.  It's just a bad situation all around right now.  Based on past history, I don't think there will be a favorable outcome for owners, especially if they are not able to use their points anywhere before they expire.


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## Kal (Apr 4, 2020)

The Hyatt policy for any week impacted by Covid-19 is to cancel the reservation and transfer those points to a "special LCUP".  Those points expire in 2021 and must be used within 60 days of occupancy.  Ask for a refund of MF and they claim Covid-19 is beyond their control and Hyatt keeps the MF.  Owner is the loser...get over it.


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## IslandTime (Apr 6, 2020)

They now have the new policy (below) on the HRC website.  This was not the case when I had to cancel our 4/4 reservation in Maui the week prior.  They put my points back in CUP which would have moved over to LCUP on 7-5-20.  Within a few days, we decided to book a week in KW in August just because HSH had availability.  I hope that's far enough out that we can travel by then.

Cancellations to existing reservations made with Club or Portfolio Points 1 to 60 days prior to arrival:


*The following apply to reservations that are canceled on March 12, 2020, through April 24, 2020, (subject to change):*
If you have an existing reservation and cancel sixty (60) or fewer days prior to arrival, any Club or Portfolio Points will be returned to your Account in their corresponding use window as Restricted Points. *We have extended the expiration date of these Restricted Points to December 31, 2021,* for reservations made within sixty (60) days prior to arrival at any Hyatt Residence Club or Portfolio Program resort, based upon availability. Any travel using these points must be completed by December 31, 2021.
If any Club or Portfolio Points are *expired* at the time of cancellation, we will also restore them as Restricted Points, as described above. You may begin using these restored points on May 10, 2020, by contacting Member Services at +1 800.GO.HYATT.

If you used borrowed Club or Portfolio Points for the reservation, they will be returned to the original Reservation Window without penalty; however, any advance payment of estimated maintenance fees and taxes will not be refunded.
The cancellation fee related to the transactions above will be waived.
_* Due to continually changing conditions, these cancellation policies may be changed or modified as needed._


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## suzannesimon (Apr 15, 2020)

Everyone wants to be a property owner except when they don’t. I live in a Florida resort condo. It is mostly second homes and owners rent them to vacationers. A couple of owners came here to quarantine from Ohio right before the condo association shut down all the amenities. A week later, the governor closed everything down as well. A few owners who came here because it was more pleasant than home have been creating quite a fuss demanding they get their condo fees refunded because they can’t use the pool.  All of a sudden they want to be tourists instead of owners.  Sadly I went through this at Marriott Frenchman’s Cove after the hurricane and lost 3 weeks. We paid full fees plus a special assessment and lost our weeks as well. Marriott gave us zip.  Westin St John cut everyone’s maintenance fees because it cost less to run a vacant resort. They didn’t have a special assessment because they had their insurance deductible saved in their Reserve Funds.  Different resorts with totally different management responses.


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## Sapper (Apr 15, 2020)

suzannesimon said:


> Everyone wants to be a property owner except when they don’t. I live in a Florida resort condo. It is mostly second homes and owners rent them to vacationers. A couple of owners came here to quarantine from Ohio right before the condo association shut down all the amenities. A week later, the governor closed everything down as well. A few owners who came here because it was more pleasant than home have been creating quite a fuss demanding they get their condo fees refunded because they can’t use the pool.  All of a sudden they want to be tourists instead of owners.  Sadly I went through this at Marriott Frenchman’s Cove after the hurricane and lost 3 weeks. We paid full fees plus a special assessment and lost our weeks as well. Marriott gave us zip.  Westin St John cut everyone’s maintenance fees because it cost less to run a vacant resort. They didn’t have a special assessment because they had their insurance deductible saved in their Reserve Funds.  Different resorts with totally different management responses.



Owners of the Hyatt property in Puerto Rico had their maintenance fees cut in half that year and full use of their points. Of course, that property is still not functioning three years later, the owners have paid full maintenance fees since, and there was a big bump this year.


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## GTLINZ (Apr 16, 2020)

suzannesimon said:


> Everyone wants to be a property owner except when they don’t.



Well said.

We are owners and do take risks with ownership along with the savings we should be deriving most years.  It is great when they try to do something - anything, really- full points, restricted points, II certs, credits, etc - but for the ones of us who have deeds there is really no recourse.

I also have refunded a renter/friend (really is somebody I know). I make no guarantees because they may not show up or may change the minds - but when what I have rented them is not available for check in it is not their fault.


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## Kal (Apr 16, 2020)

The only upside is that the cost of maintaining an empty resort will be lower.  No doubt Hyatt will continue to receive their "management fees" but the operational costs will be substantially reduced.  It's unknown if the staff will continue to receive full pay even though unemployment pay could be higher if they were laid off.  At the end of the year the total costs will be lower than budget.  I would fully expect that next year's budget will reflect this cost saving for this year.  Unfortunately a lower MF will apply to all owners even though there is a subset of owners who definitely incurred a real loss.  It would be nice to see a lower MF only for those impacted owners.  And if frogs had wings, they wouldn't hit their butt when they jump.


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## Sapper (Apr 16, 2020)

Kal said:


> The only upside is that the cost of maintaining an empty resort will be lower.  No doubt Hyatt will continue to receive their "management fees" but the operational costs will be substantially reduced.  It's unknown if the staff will continue to receive full pay even though unemployment pay could be higher if they were laid off.  At the end of the year the total costs will be lower than budget.  I would fully expect that next year's budget will reflect this cost saving for this year.  Unfortunately a lower MF will apply to all owners even though there is a subset of owners who definitely incurred a real loss.  It would be nice to see a lower MF only for those impacted owners.  And if frogs had wings, they wouldn't hit their butt when they jump.



As I read what you wrote, the cynic in me was saying “MVC management now... the’ll pocket the operational savings and increase maintenance fees 3%.” Haha.


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