# Sightings Alert



## alwysonvac (Nov 16, 2010)

Check out the Sightings Board!

Need to login as a TUG member to see the Sightings Board - http://tugbbs.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=3


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## alwysonvac (Nov 17, 2010)

Another big update

Here's the thread on the sightings forum - http://tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=134693


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## linsj (Nov 17, 2010)

alwysonvac said:


> Another big update
> 
> Here's the thread on the sightings forum - http://tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=134693



Thanks for posting this. I've been looking for a week in June, and as of this morning there still wasn't one. Got what I want tonight.


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## GregT (Nov 17, 2010)

Wow Wow -- thanks for posting this!

Has this happened before?  Where large large blocks of rooms appear suddenly?  And this are really large blocks -- I remember when the January block appeared about 5 months before travel time.  Here we are again....

I'm sure Big Spike will go into the stratosphere (and I would too).

What's interesting is that there was already a bunch of availability at HHV via RCI earlier this year (I'm going in October) -- and now lots of inventory appears to HGVC'ers?      

Perhaps HHV is not as sold out as we thought?  But HGVC doesn't have a good place to offload the inventory?

Intersting stuff -- thanks!


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## sml2181 (Nov 18, 2010)

Yes, it happens ever year. The only thing is that it is usually around 9 months (it can be a little later than exactly at 9 months out), 6 or 5 months and 3 months. It's just not exactly that, so you have to keep trying. 

A few years ago it was mentioned here on Tug that HGVC was going to start this in order to keep people happy who are not able to plan their trips 9 months in advance. 

I have always gotten the reservations I was looking for without going through too much trouble, sometimes at 9 months out but sometimes at 3 months out, and I almost only reserve multiple units at prime weeks such as HHV during July/August and Breckenridge Christmas, Presidents week or March.


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## alwysonvac (Nov 18, 2010)

You're welcome  




> A few years ago it was mentioned here on Tug that HGVC was going to start this in order to keep people happy who are not able to plan their trips 9 months in advance.


Perhaps you're right  
There was talked about possible additional options. I never saw anything telling us that this was implemented. And if this is true, it would be nice if they shared the timeframes so members would know when to check back for availability.

Here's the 2007 thread - http://tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=44320 
The entire article can be found in the Spring 2007 Grand Times on page 11 "The Next Generation"  - http://www.hgvclub.com/images2/GrandTimes/pdf/GT_English_Spring_2007.pdf


fyi... just be careful not to post too many details about the sighting otherwise it will trigger the moderators to move the entire thread to the sighting board. 
For example, the following threads started on this board and got moved.
http://tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=131056
http://tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=132559


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## GregT (Nov 18, 2010)

All,

This is really interesting, that such a huge block of rooms appeared, many during prime period (plus lots of Gold inventory too -- at the reduced point values).

I know HGVC veterans have seen this before, but it really puzzles me how HGVC could have an unofficial "staggered" release of inventory that they've not explained/disclosed to the HGVC ownership.

I think this inventory release is a significant positive, if they withhold XX% of the inventory and release it X months before check-in, but if that's the case, I would think they would find a way to disclose it so people can understand/expect it?    Otherwise, it appears to be an (arbitrary?) release of inventory that is inconsistent with club rules?

I like it because it gives two bites at the apple -- first at 9 months, then again if they have a staggered release.  And the timing of this staggered release is preferable to Worldmark, where people book desirable reservations as soon as they are available and then cancel their reservations 31 days out to avoid penalty (creating a lot of last minute availability) -- and this is not a Worldmark driven inventory release, its a function of the non-punitive cancelation policy.

I much prefer having 90-150 days notice about availability, versus 30-60 days in Worldmark, but am still surprised if I am interpreting this correctly.

Thoughts?

Thanks!


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## sml2181 (Nov 18, 2010)

alwysonvac said:


> You're welcome
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Sorry, don't know how to quote a few lines instead of the whole post. 

You were most probably right - it was probably discussed here as a possibility. 
So thank you for correcting me. 

Yes, it would be nice if this would be somehow communicated to the members. But one issue is that it is not exactly at 6 or 3 months out, there seem to be only approximates. I think it is approximately 6 and 3 months but it it certainly not a guarantee.


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## sml2181 (Nov 18, 2010)

GregT said:


> All,
> 
> This is really interesting, that such a huge block of rooms appeared, many during prime period (plus lots of Gold inventory too -- at the reduced point values).
> 
> ...



I like it, it has proven to be very useful to me. I don't have to fret if I haven't been able to get a reservation at 9 months out for what ever reason and that makes life just a bit more comfortable. 

I don't know enough about how HGVC handles the inventory. Maybe it's just that people are currently making plans later than within the home period, and that they release some of that inventory later on. Just a guess, I simply don't know. 

I do know that many people must be looking for inventory because I've seen inventory decrease almost by the minute. 
I remember I posted some inventory a few years ago and within less than an hour it was gone. Then when someone here tried to get a unit the next day - he was out of luck and of course was very disappointed. (He ended up getting an open season reservation.)

I do think it would help if this was a rule and communicated as such to the members. But maybe they have been trying this whole thing out. 

Again, I simply don't know; obviously I am not an expert.


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## Big Spike (Nov 19, 2010)

It's not HGVC duty to keep people "happy" who can't plan their vacations 9 months in advance.  Their duty is to live up to their agreement with their home week owners to release unbooked inventory at 9 months and not when they feel lilke it.  If they released all available unbooked inventory at 9 months the market would take care of itself as it had in the past.  The only reason they don't release the inventory is because they sell some of this inventory as their own.  I've owned at the Lagoon Tower pre-construction and have (40,200 points)  in Hawaii.  I take family and friends as well as customers every year to Hawaii.  I have booked multiple room types for years and have seen this system degrade in the past couple years.  It's time owners stop making excuses for HGVC and start asking them why they don't live up to their agreements with their owners...   Big Spike


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## PigsDad (Nov 19, 2010)

Big Spike said:


> It's not HGVC duty to keep people "happy" who can't plan their vacations 9 months in advance.  Their duty is to live up to their agreement with their home week owners to release unbooked inventory at 9 months and not when they feel lilke it.  If they released all available unbooked inventory at 9 months the market would take care of itself as it had in the past.  The only reason they don't release the inventory is because they sell some of this inventory as their own.  I've owned at the Lagoon Tower pre-construction and have (40,200 points)  in Hawaii.  I take family and friends as well as customers every year to Hawaii.  I have booked multiple room types for years and have seen this system degrade in the past couple years.  It's time owners stop making excuses for HGVC and start asking them why they don't live up to their agreements with their owners...   Big Spike


Can you point to and documentation that says HGVC *must *release *all *inventory at the 9 mo mark?  If it is not in your purchase contract, or in the association documents, HGVC has no requirement to release all inventory at 9 months.

Different people plan their vacations differently, and not everyone likes to plan 1 year, 9 months, or even 3 months out.  HGVC was just responding to the requests of their customers by spacing out when inventory is released.  I don't see any issue with that at all.

Kurt


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## GregT (Nov 19, 2010)

Interesting -- I just looked at the HGVC Guide and the language states that the Club Reservation Window will vary by resort, but *generally *starts 9 months early.  

I always thought the 9 month window was a requirement....It doesn't say anything that all available units need to be released.

Thanks!

Greg


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## PigsDad (Nov 19, 2010)

GregT said:


> Interesting -- I just looked at the HGVC Guide and the language states that the Club Reservation Window will vary by resort, but *generally *starts 9 months early.
> 
> I always thought the 9 month window was a requirement....It doesn't say anything that all available units need to be released.


The New York location's Club Season starts at 44 days out -- as far as I know, that is the only exception.

And your right, no where does it say that *all *inventory will be released at the start of Club Season.

Kurt


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## Big Spike (Nov 19, 2010)

If not all inventory how about 1 or 2 rooms at rhe 9 month window?   I've owned here since before it was open and traditionally and in implication Club season started with availability 276 day out.  I don't know what it is in Vegas or Florida and I don't care..  But please don't give me the attitude that I'm just a dumb .... who doesn't know anything..    Big Spike


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## alwysonvac (Nov 19, 2010)

*Ding... Ding... Ding... We Have A Winner !!*



GregT said:


> Interesting -- I just looked at the HGVC Guide and the language states that the Club Reservation Window will vary by resort, but *generally *starts 9 months early.
> 
> I always thought the 9 month window was a requirement....It doesn't say anything that all available units need to be released.
> 
> ...




Good eye Greg  

Ok, I went back to my old copies of the HGVC Member Guide. LOL, yes I have copies as far back as 2004. Every Member guide from 2004 through 2007 states "starts 9 months...." HOWEVER starting in 2008 (after the Spring 2007 Grand Times article appeared), the language included the word "generally". 

In fact the 2008 guide states _"The Club Reservations Window may vary by resort, but generally occurs nine(9) months (276 days) prior to check-out and up to one(1) day prior to check-in. The Club Reservation Window for West 57th Street by Hilton Club begins forty-four (44) days prior to the desired check-out date and up to one day prior to the check-in date with no minimum night requirement." _

Interesting that the W57th Street still doesn't include the word "generally" in the 2010 version because we have folks who have noticed availability changing after the 44 day mark as well.  

Now why do I have old copies?... Because I started noticing little unannounced changes like this from HGVC over the years and wanted to know when they first occurred. :annoyed: 

Before anyone flips out...... the following statement can be found in the HGVC Members Guide.
_"*Program Changes. *Club program use options and rules, *including but not limited to*, the RCI Exchange Program, special exchanges, nightly point values, the Hilton HHonors program, ClubPoint Depositing/Borrowing/Converting, and ClubPartner Perks that may be offered from time to time, are subject to change, adjustment, suspension or discontinuation *without notice*. Any such changes will not apply to transactions confirmed prior to the effective date of any such change"_


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## Big Spike (Nov 19, 2010)

"Club Resrvation Window may vary by resort, but generwlly occurs nine (9) months (276days) prior to the check-out date and up to one (1) day prior to check-in.  ................................................. Refer to each resort's ClubPoint Values chart for details."     In referring to each of the three properties at the HHV  all state their "Club Season as 276 days before check -out  to 1 day before check-in."  Although I'm not a lawyer but This appears to me to be a statement of when their Club Season for these properties begins..,.,   If you see some wiggle room here I don't.  If the intent of these statements in the Members Guide is something other than what it says.  Why should we believe  anything we get in printed form relating to ownership?  I've been booking the Lagoon Tower since day 1 and this holding availability is a recent phenomenon.   I don't have an issue with spreading availability throughout the club season. I take issue with HGVC telling me there is no availabilty 9,8 or 7 months out,  but they have all kinds of inventory to rent ( we and the people we are traveling with rented 4 units in the Lagoon Tower and later cancelled).  Now after being told there is no availability 3-1/2 monts out all kinds of availabity appears..


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## alwysonvac (Nov 20, 2010)

Big Spike said:


> "Club Resrvation Window may vary by resort, but generwlly occurs nine (9) months (276days) prior to the check-out date and up to one (1) day prior to check-in.  ................................................. Refer to each resort's ClubPoint Values chart for details."     In referring to each of the three properties at the HHV  all state their "Club Season as 276 days before check -out  to 1 day before check-in."  Although I'm not a lawyer but This appears to me to be a statement of when their Club Season for these properties begins..,.,   If you see some wiggle room here I don't.  If the intent of these statements in the Members Guide is something other than what it says.  Why should we believe  anything we get in printed form relating to ownership?  I've been booking the Lagoon Tower since day 1 and this holding availability is a recent phenomenon.   I don't have an issue with spreading availability throughout the club season. I take issue with HGVC telling me there is no availabilty 9,8 or 7 months out,  but they have all kinds of inventory to rent ( we and the people we are traveling with rented 4 units in the Lagoon Tower and later cancelled).  Now after being told there is no availability 3-1/2 monts out all kinds of availabity appears..



I believe what gives HGVC any wiggle room is the fact that they can change the program at any time as stated in the Club Member Guide

From the Club Member Guide
"*Program Changes*. Club program use options and rules, *including but not limited to*, the RCI Exchange Program, special exchanges, nightly point values, the Hilton HHonors program, ClubPoint Depositing/Borrowing/Converting, and ClubPartner Perks that may be offered from time to time, *are subject to change, adjustment, suspension or discontinuation without notice*. Any such changes will not apply to transactions confirmed prior to the effective date of any such change"


In regards to the renting issues that you keep constantly bringing up on multiple threads, here's my opinion....

HGVC needs to get back money on all of the alternate options that they offer (hotel stays, HHonors points, travel certificates, cruises, etc), I believe they use a good chunk of these HGVC points obtained from the various resorts within the program to rent HGVC units at one of their most profitable locations within the Hilton Family which is the Hilton Hawaiian Village. They also probably get more bang for the buck with an Oahu rental than a Orlando or Vegas rental which probablys helps them during downturns in the travel industry. 

I also believe that HGVC is probably releasing whatever they're unable to rent. Perhaps they could manage the releasing a little better  but at least now we know to keep looking.


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