# Hello [Kahana Falls - profitable rental?]



## share012 (Nov 11, 2014)

I am being gifted a  time share Kahana Falls  Maui 2 bedroom lock out 6th floor red week 51 Christmas?  Any reviews or opinion on profitability ; or at least making dues and maintenance  back?   Total new to this?  I Thank You for any input.


----------



## DeniseM (Nov 11, 2014)

You can probably rent it, but it won't be huge money.  I would not accept it with the idea that you will use it for a rental property - I wouldn't take it unless you want to use it yourself.

*It may be harder to rent than I thought - note that there is still a holiday week for rent on Redweek, which does not bode well since check-in is next month.

Rental Rates:

11/11/14 - 12/31/14	 7	 $749 ($107/nt)	Varies	 1/ 1	 4	View
12/13/14 - 12/20/14	 7	 $425 ($61/nt)	Garden	 0/ 1	 2	View
*12/26/14 - 01/02/15	 7	 $1,500 ($214/nt)	Pool	 2/ 2	 6	View*
01/18/15 - 01/25/15	 7	 $1,095 ($156/nt)	Varies	 1/ 2	 4	View
01/30/15 - 02/05/15	 7	 $950 ($136/nt)	Water view	 1/ 2	 4	View
02/07/15 - 02/14/15	 7	 $1,400 ($200/nt)	Ocean view	 2/ 2	 6	View
02/21/15 - 02/28/15	 7	 $1,300 ($186/nt)	Pool	 2/ 2	 6	View


----------



## share012 (Nov 11, 2014)

That is one way of putting it; do You think I could still cover the maintenance fees of $1300???


----------



## DeniseM (Nov 11, 2014)

share012 said:


> That is one way of putting it; do You think I could still cover the maintenance fees of $1300???



If you are only going to cover the maintenance fee, why do you want it?

There is still a holiday week unrented on Redweek for $1,500 - for a holiday week to be unrented the month before check-in is bad news.  So you may not be able to rent it for enough to cover $1,300 (after you pay for advertising fees, Paypal, etc.)


----------



## Passepartout (Nov 11, 2014)

[*deleted*]


----------



## DeniseM (Nov 11, 2014)

Passepartout said:


> Remember, in Hawaii, taxes are high and billed separately from MF.



Taxes are included in Hawaii.


----------



## share012 (Nov 11, 2014)

Denise ; I think I would be o.k. with just covering expenditures ; making money would be O.K.  I probably might use it in Feb 1 year.  Just sort of finding my way with the profitability.


----------



## DeniseM (Nov 11, 2014)

share012 said:


> Denise ; I think I would be o.k. with just covering expenditures ; making money would be O.K.  I probably might use it in Feb 1 year.  Just sort of finding my way with the profitability.



If it is deeded for week 51, how will you use it in February?

If you have a fixed Christmas week, it "might" rent for enough to cover your maintenance fees, but if it is a floating week - probably not.


----------



## Passepartout (Nov 11, 2014)

DeniseM said:


> Taxes are included in Hawaii.



Oops. Never mind.


----------



## share012 (Nov 11, 2014)

It is my understanding that taxes are included in maintenance Fee at Kahana Falls


----------



## share012 (Nov 11, 2014)

Denise Yes it is fixed; can You trade months?  Pardon my ignorance!  RCI property


----------



## DeniseM (Nov 11, 2014)

If it is a fixed week, you only get to use that week.  If you don't want to go to Hawaii week 51, don't take it.


----------



## share012 (Nov 11, 2014)

Thank You for the information; so even if I bank My weeks I still will be only able to exchange with RCI with week 51???


----------



## DeniseM (Nov 11, 2014)

share012 said:


> Thank You for the information; so even if I bank My weeks I still will be only able to exchange with RCI with week 51???



Exchanging is not like making a hotel reservation - it's more like gambling.  When you make an exchange, you are literally throwing your week in the RCI pot, putting in a request, and hoping you can trade it for another owner's week.

There are many factors that determine whether you will or not, and to be successful, and you need to put in the request a year or more in advance, and request a broad time frame.  If for instance, you only want to trade for one resort, for President's week, your chances are very low.

Hawaii resorts are not considered good exchangers because of the high maintenance fee - if you can't use week 51 - don't take it.


----------



## share012 (Nov 11, 2014)

Thank You again Denise;  any other Time Sharers input?


----------



## LisaH (Nov 11, 2014)

I believe at Kahana Falls where I used to own, the holiday weeks are fixed but the owner can request a different week within 12 months window. You should contact the resort to verify.
Also, if you lock-off the unit and deposit both studio and 1BR with RCI, you get 67 TPU for your week 51. That's not bad for $1300 M/F.


----------



## share012 (Nov 11, 2014)

Thanks lisa more helpful info!  Come on fellow time shares input please.


----------



## DeniseM (Nov 11, 2014)

A few more questions:

-Realistically - how often do you think you will travel to Maui?

-Do you take a full weeks vacation every year?

-Can you plan vacations a year or more in advance?

-Are you a detailed oriented, advanced planner?

-Can you afford a $1,300 maintenance fee that comes due right after Christmas every year, even if you can't rent the week?


----------



## Passepartout (Nov 11, 2014)

Depositing it into RCI to exchange for another week also opens you up to paying for RCI membership ($80ish/yr) plus exchange fees ($209 online). As mentioned, splitting the sides and depositing them separately does net a nice bundle of Trading Power Units (TPU) but they cost to redeem.

This would be an expensive trader IMO.


----------



## share012 (Nov 11, 2014)

O>k> even though the condo is a gift; i think all the fees are not worth it.  I am thinking of not accepting;  unless more positive reviews come my way.   Does any one have any input on quality of 2 bedroom lock out top floor with lanai????  I can not thank everyone enough for info&input.


----------



## DeniseM (Nov 11, 2014)

This is a middle of the road resort - not bad, but not one of the top resorts on the island - that's why rental rates are low.  Tuggers rate it in the 7/10 range -  which is a "C+." 

For comparison, a 2 bdm. at the Marriott or Westin for Christmas week would rent for over $4,000.

I have a lot of experience renting on Maui, and personally, I would not accept this as a gift or a rental.  I would only accept it if I wanted to go to this resort every year for Christmas.


----------



## bastroum (Nov 11, 2014)

I have a trade there on December 12th. Brought my wife by to see the property in September to see the units. She refuses to stay there.


----------



## share012 (Nov 11, 2014)

That does not sound so good; what type of unit


----------



## bastroum (Nov 11, 2014)

1BD on the 3rd floor


----------



## LisaH (Nov 12, 2014)

share012, I saw you posted several inquiries to the expired listings. 
If you want to make a handsome profit by renting the Christmas week at KF, I think you will be disappointed. The most you can rent is probably no more than $2000 and there will be lots of work involved. If this is your primary intention, I would advise against taking the week. If you would like to go to Hawaii half the time (especially for Christmas), rent some years, and trade to different places in others, this could be a good opportunity for you to get a taste of timesharing.


----------



## DeniseM (Nov 12, 2014)

Actually, there is an UNRENTED holiday listing on Redweek for $1,500, so I don't think it will go for $2,000.

12/26/14 - 01/02/15	 7	 $1,500 ($214/nt)	Pool	 2/ 2	 6	View


----------



## LisaH (Nov 12, 2014)

Hi Denise, I think we are in agreement. I meant the best he might get is $2000 (I rented one for that amount a while ago). He will be lucky to get enough to cover the M/F these days.


----------



## LisaRex (Nov 12, 2014)

TripAdvisor review of Kahana Falls from September '14:

"We stayed here because it was the cheapest hotel we could find and we were definitely on a tight budget. The room was small but it had everything you needed, being as we were only sleeping here. It is right across the street from the beach and only a few minutes drive from the nicer beaches for snorkeling. Great pool... "

IMO, THIS is the type of person who'd I expect to rent (or own) Kahana Falls: a budget conscience traveler, who doesn't want or need bells or whistles, but just wants a clean place to lay his head.  In short, it's going to be a mediocre rental at best, and that's only because it falls over Christmas. Why?  There are literally thousands of condos/hotels/timeshares for rent on Maui, so your competition is fierce, and KF has some major downsides:   

1) It's not on the beach  <-- deal killer for a vast majority of renters

2) It's not located in either South Maui or West Maui. Most renters will prefer to stay in the middle of one of these two "resort rows" because of their proximity to the ocean, shops and restaurants.     

3) It's not a well-known brand. 

4) Mediocre reviews on TripAdvisor (3.5 stars) <-- "needs updating" is a common thread.*

*WARNING: This is a troubling comment.  It means one of 3 things: 1) The HOA is not assessing enough in MFs to cover normal updates, which means you can expect (and, honestly should WANT) your MFs to increase. 2) Your resort has a high rate of deadbeat owners (those who walk away and don't pay their MFs); or 3) A "Special Assessment" aka SA is on the horizon.  What's an SA?  It's an assessment for work that was not budgeted.  Because it cannot be covered in annual MFs, each owner will be billed for their "fair share" of the repairs or updates IN ADDITION to their normal MFs.  Sometimes these are a few hundred bucks, and sometimes they're thousands of dollars spread out over several years.  

No, I wouldn't accept this gift under any circumstances.


----------



## DeniseM (Nov 12, 2014)

Lisa - excellent analysis!


----------



## share012 (Nov 14, 2014)

Lisa, that is financially scary; they legally can do that?? Can you decline?
Why in the heck are you paying maintenance fees?


----------



## DeniseM (Nov 14, 2014)

If there is a special assessment, all owners must pay it, or you will lose the use of your timeshare, and eventually they will foreclose on you.

As Lisa said, if the MF is too low, and maintenance is slipping, that can lead to a special assessment to "catch up."


----------



## vacationtime1 (Nov 14, 2014)

If the MF's are approx $1,300 and a prime, holiday week rents for no more than $1,500, the unit has no value as a rental property, given advertising costs and the possibility of it not getting rented.  Why take on an ongoing expense without a reasonable likelihood of an ongoing profit?

It is also worthless for exchanging, IMO.  Given the MF's, Interval/RCI membership fees, and exchange fees, the cost of doing the exchange will exceed the cost of simply renting a week from someone else.

It may be worth owning for someone who really, really wants to go to Maui Christmas week every year; the certainty of having a confirmed reservation has some value.  But absent the intent of owning to use, I would decline this "gift".


----------



## cgeidl (Nov 14, 2014)

*No*

And Not worth the hassle and risk.


----------



## share012 (Nov 17, 2014)

*weeks*

It does come with 42 weeks available and membership paid til March 2016.


----------



## DeniseM (Nov 17, 2014)

I think you are trying to talk yourself into this:  You may not be aware of it, but the market is full of free timeshares, so don't let the fact that it is "free," sway you.

Summary:
-mediocre property
-mediocre rental
-high maintenance fee
-possibly due for renovations

These are all free timeshares right here on TUG:    http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=13


----------



## Passepartout (Nov 17, 2014)

share012 said:


> It does come with 42 weeks available and membership paid til March 2016.



Looks like you are still trying to talk yourself into it. Here's the deal. If you want to spend Christmas on Maui every year (not an altogether bad thing unless you have family on the mainland who expect your presence [or presents]. But from a financial standpoint, it is a break even thing at best, with the distinct possibility that you wouldn't make enough on a rental to pay the nut and the time it would take from your otherwise busy life would interfere with your enjoyment of other things.

Jim


----------



## share012 (Nov 17, 2014)

O>K> feel like I am talking to Mom&Dad; but I am sure You are much more experienced in timeshares than I am.  If I had an objective goal it would to just make maintenance Fees back on 2015(which might be feasible fixed Christmas week, 2 bedroom lock out, lanai, top floor)  then the next year use it.  If I like it ; keep it.  If not E-bay here I come! Is that not even economically Feasible????  com on guy,s lets hear it.  I need the Pros!


----------



## jacknsara (Nov 17, 2014)

share012 said:


> O>K> feel like I am talking to Mom&Dad; but I am sure You are much more experienced in timeshares than I am.  If I had an objective goal it would to just make maintenance Fees back on 2015(which might be feasible fixed Christmas week, 2 bedroom lock out, lanai, top floor)  then the next year use it.  If I like it ; keep it.  If not E-bay here I come! Is that not even economically Feasible????  com on guy,s lets hear it.  I need the Pros!



Aloha,
After watching this thread for almost a week, I am reminded of the old adage that free advice is worth what you pay for it. 
Since it  appears that you are strongly inclined to take possession of this week 51 timeshare with the intention of making money despite repeated advice to only do it if you plan to use it most years, I suggest you proceed to take ownership.  After a few years’ results, you will know whether it made financial sense.  You might be a few hundred dollars ahead.  The worst it will cost you is a several thousand dollars and maybe only double digit hours of attention and anxiety.  Consider it tuition.  By then, you will have paid something for the information and experience so it will have value to you.
BTW, week 51 does not always include Christmas.  
http://tug2.com/timesharemarketplace/PlanningCalendar.aspx?Year=2016&BackCount=2&BackTo= 
Good luck,
Jack


----------



## LisaRex (Nov 17, 2014)

share012 said:


> O>K> feel like I am talking to Mom&Dad; but I am sure You are much more experienced in timeshares than I am.  If I had an objective goal it would to just make maintenance Fees back on 2015(which might be feasible fixed Christmas week, 2 bedroom lock out, lanai, top floor)  then the next year use it.  If I like it ; keep it.  If not E-bay here I come! Is that not even economically Feasible????  com on guy,s lets hear it.  I need the Pros!



Gee, let me get out my crystal ball here....Can you find a renter who's willing to rent out your unit for the cost of MFs in 2015?  Beats me!  What's your marketing plan?


----------



## DeniseM (Nov 17, 2014)

Also - that New Year's rental is still sitting on Redweek for $1,500.  This is the most popular rental week in Hawaii - it still hasn't rented, and it's been there awhile.  That is a big red flag about the rentabilty of this resort.

FYI:  To cover your maintenance fees, next year's MF increase, Paypal, and advertising, you'd have to get a minimum of $1,400 for this week just to break even.


----------



## bastroum (Nov 17, 2014)

share012 said:


> O>K> feel like I am talking to Mom&Dad; but I am sure You are much more experienced in timeshares than I am.  If I had an objective goal it would to just make maintenance Fees back on 2015(which might be feasible fixed Christmas week, 2 bedroom lock out, lanai, top floor)  then the next year use it.  If I like it ; keep it.  If not E-bay here I come! Is that not even economically Feasible????  com on guy,s lets hear it.  I need the Pros!



The best you will do on eBay is $1 and you will have to pay closing and 1 years MF's. Instead of throwing $ away on this unit buy an EOY Marriott Ocean Club Mountain/Garden View. You will end up spending the same money on the T/S as you would throwing your $ at Kahana Falls MF's after a few years and you will have something of value at the end.


----------



## kcgriffin (Nov 18, 2014)

I have my Christmas and New Years week for rent here on TUG for $700 per week.


----------



## share012 (Nov 18, 2014)

Thank You everyone; for all Your time and input.  Very valuable and helpful information.
Alas, I have not made a decision on the condo; but I did on closing the thread.
Thank You again,
Suzanne


----------



## rickandcindy23 (Nov 18, 2014)

Kahana Falls would be a stellar trader in RCI.  Just sayin'.  I think a Christmas week in a lockoff, using the lockoff option, would bring in close to 100 points.  I haven't checked lately, but I have checked in the past.  

100 points is a lot of trading power, but as a week that you would only use occasionally, it's not the best to own.  I would trade into other resorts before Kahana Falls.  It ain't fancy, but it's okay if that is all you can get.  

Someone may rent the week, though, if you advertise it on Craig's List.


----------



## LisaH (Nov 18, 2014)

share012 said:


> It does come with *42 weeks available* and membership paid til March 2016.



I don't know what that means. Mathematically, the maximum # of weeks available for trading assuming the current owner locks off every year are 6: 2 each for 2012 (which will expire in a month), 2013, and 2014.



rickandcindy23 said:


> Kahana Falls would be a stellar trader in RCI.  Just sayin'.  I think a Christmas week in a lockoff, using the lockoff option, would bring in close to 100 points.  I haven't checked lately, but I have checked in the past.



I checked. 67 TPUs for week 51 in 2015 if locked-off.


----------



## share012 (Nov 19, 2014)

Hello I can see this thread is not closed! and I have no idea what TPU's are; I know with the unit I have 41 weeks banked.


----------



## DeniseM (Nov 19, 2014)

We only close threads that violate the TUG posting rules, and this one is perfectly fine.


----------



## DeniseM (Nov 19, 2014)

share012 said:


> Hello I can see this thread is not closed! and I have no idea what TPU's are; I know with the unit I have 41 weeks banked.



TPU = Trading Power Units - which is the trading value in RCI.  You use the TPU (points) like currency in RCI, to make exchanges.

It is impossible to have 41 weeks banked, because banked weeks expire after about 3 years, and the previous  owner could only bank 2 weeks per year maximum (if it is a 2 bdm. lock-off that can be split into 2 deposit.)

In general, when you acquire a timeshare, the previous owner's RCI Acct. doesn't not transfer to you, because it is a completely separate entity.  It will still belong to the original owner.

ADDED -  One more serious consideration:  Don't forget that airfare for your family go to Hawaii will run $500+ each and that's very conservative.  So figure $2,000+ for a family of 4.  So that means that a trip to Hawaii will cost you $1,300 + $2,000 + rental car + food and dining + activities.  A conservative estimate is $5,000+ for a week in Hawaii.


----------



## Beefnot (Nov 19, 2014)

share012 said:


> Hello I can see this thread is not closed! and I have no idea what TPU's are; I know with the unit I have 41 weeks banked.


 
There is likely no way you will ever use those 41 weeks, unless you're retiring soon, so whether it is 6 weeks or 41 weeks, probably doesn't make much difference. If you are okay with renting out just to cover MFs in years you don't use at a resort that is just meh and can rent it back for at or less than MFs when you would want to go, then it makes really no sense to own there. Just rent when you want to go. Think of it like paying MFs only in years you will use it.

TPUs are trading power units, RCI's exchange currency based on the relative trade power of a given resort. You could find a much more cost effective property if you're looking to exchange.


----------



## share012 (Nov 19, 2014)

O>K> Look like this thread is not closed yet; I do not know what TPU is all I know is 42 weeks banked.


----------



## DeniseM (Nov 19, 2014)

share012 said:


> O>K> Look like this thread is not closed yet; I do not know what TPU is all I know is 42 weeks banked.


Please look at the 2 threads above, for an explanation of TPU and banked  weeks.


----------



## share012 (Nov 19, 2014)

He has been banking them since 2011; the account says 41 weeks are to expire in 12-2014. I am trying to get 2014  deposited so I  can pay $109 under combine Your deposits so then the travel window will open up to 2years.  My friend is deceased and RCI explained that the weeks and membership would extend to me.


----------



## share012 (Nov 19, 2014)

And I am retired!


----------



## DeniseM (Nov 19, 2014)

So you _already_ inherited this timeshare?  

I don't know the rules about inheriting an RCI Acct., but RCI strictly prohibits renting exchanges, so you won't be about to use the deposits for rentals.  You can use them for your own vacations, or gift exchanges to friends and family.  

*Sometimes, people do rent exchanges to friends or family, "under the table," and if they are careful, they are unlikely to get caught, because they make sure their friends and family understand that they can't disclose that it's a rental.  

However, people who advertise RCI exchange for rent on the internet, and rent to strangers, are far more likely to get caught, because their renters may rat them off - either intentionally, or unintentionally.  If that happens, RCI can close your account, and confiscate all your fees paid, and deposits, and exchanges - not worth the risk.

I'm not sure how he could make 41 deposits since 2011, unless other timeshares were also deposited in this account?


----------



## share012 (Nov 19, 2014)

DeniseM, it is complicated as far as the inheritance; I can only explain what I see on the website when I log in (attorney gave me log in)  that he has 41 weeks.  I imagine his deposit is worth more than 1 week???  I have no idea RCI is designed to be a maze of confusing information.  It just states 41 weeks not points.  I have  no intention of doing something shady like renting them under the table.  RCi said the weeks are transferrable to me.


----------



## DeniseM (Nov 19, 2014)

If this is an RCI deposit, the weeks he deposited will convert to points called Trading Power Units (TPU.)  You use the TPU's like currency to make exchanges with RCI.  

Exchanges can range from around 5 TPU to 60 TPU maximum.  The average for nice resorts is in the 20-40 range.  

There is a yearly RCI membership fee of around $100 per year, and there is an exchange fee for each exchange - around $200 per exchange.

To keep all these TPU's from expiring, you will have to continue depositing the week and combining the TPU, often enough to keep them from expiring.  (Like every 2-3 years.)


----------



## share012 (Nov 19, 2014)

Denise M That is what I am trying to work on They were supposed to deposit week for 2014(even though I will lose 50% or so exchange) then I will pay for the 2 Year extension.
If all work out according to Hoyle; otherwise if I do not get the extension with the 41 weeks I do not think I want the timeshare.  It is really the perks I am looking at.


----------



## share012 (Nov 19, 2014)

Have to sign off for now check with everyone tomorrow; have a good evening


----------



## DeniseM (Nov 19, 2014)

Please let it know how it works out!  Once it's all in your name, we can help you with exchanging.


----------



## LisaH (Nov 19, 2014)

share012 said:


> Denise M That is what I am trying to work on They were supposed to deposit week for 2014(even though I will lose 50% or so exchange) then I will pay for the 2 Year extension.
> If all work out according to Hoyle; otherwise if I do not get the extension with the* 41 weeks* I do not think I want the timeshare.  It is really the perks I am looking at.



You do not have 41 weeks banked. Most likely you have 41 TPUs remaining in the account, which will expire unless more weeks/TPUs are deposited into the account and combined with the current TPUs. 

As Denise said, 41 TPUs could be used to exchange 1-2 weeks on average .


----------



## DeniseM (Nov 19, 2014)

LisaH said:


> *Most likely you have 41 TPUs remaining in the account*, which will expire unless more weeks/TPUs are deposited into the account and combined with the current TPUs.
> 
> As Denise said, 41 TPUs could be used to exchange 1-2 weeks on average .



That might explain it…I can't figure out how there could be 41 weeks, unless the previous owner owned a LOT of timeshares.


----------



## Beefnot (Nov 19, 2014)

share012 said:


> Denise M That is what I am trying to work on They were supposed to deposit week for 2014(even though I will lose 50% or so exchange) then I will pay for the 2 Year extension.
> If all work out according to Hoyle; otherwise if I do not get the extension with the 41 weeks I do not think I want the timeshare. It is really the perks I am looking at.


 
41 TPUs is really not enough of a perk to take that timeshare, even if it extended to 2080, at least not until you better understand timeshares, TPUs, maintenance fees, etc.  Free timeshares will be around six months from now.  If you take the time to thoroughly research, my guess is that the timeshare you "buy" six months from now will not be the one you are considering inheriting today.


----------



## easyrider (Nov 19, 2014)

I agree with Denise. You probably should not take this ts unless you actually like staying there. 

Another consideration are special assessments for updates and repairs. 

For $1300 you could just rent a ts in many areas without the hassel of owning a ts.

Bill


----------



## share012 (Nov 20, 2014)

all I know is that when I log on to the account; I either put in weeks or points.  Points does not work.  Weeks does and states 41 weeks to expire 12-31- 2014. I am trying to get RCI to bank 2014 so I can extend two years.  He has been banking since2011.


----------



## DeniseM (Nov 20, 2014)

I know it's really confusing, but "weeks" and "points" designates two different kinds of trading systems with RCI.  It does not mean you have 41 weeks deposited.

41 is the number of Trading Power Units in the account.   

In the *weeks system*, the value of a deposit is called Trading Power Units (TPU.)

In the *points system*, the value of a deposit is called points - but your deposits aren't in that system.

To confirm this, call RCI and ask them if you have 41 weeks, or 41 TPU.

41 TPU is enough for 1 or 2 exchanges.


----------



## Beefnot (Nov 20, 2014)

DeniseM said:


> 41 TPU is enough for 1 or 2 exchanges.


 
It can also be enough for several more than that if one is a value traveler and okay with going to Grandview in Vegas during one of their sales or Branson in the dead of winter or something like that.


----------



## DeniseM (Nov 20, 2014)

True - but the OP was talking about trading back into Hawaii.


----------

