# Whats the highest TPU you've ever seen?



## Ridewithme38 (Jun 2, 2011)

I just bought a TS that seems to give me between 37-50TPU's if i deposit both sides of my lock off...13-25 if just one side...and because of my limited knowledge about RCI...my assumption was that 25TPU's was about an average number....I was VERY excited to hear that that wasn't true...that average was closer to 10-15TPU..it gives me hope that i could get two average weeks for one side of my lock-off

So...Now i was wondering....if 10-15TPU is around average....Whats the HIGHEST you've ever seen for a single room(one side of a lockoff or an entire TS) for a week?....i've heard of Manhattan club getting around 60 TPU...But could that really be the highest?


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## MichaelColey (Jun 2, 2011)

60 is definitely the highest.  NYC timeshares are the main ones at or near that level.  Some week 51/52 Orlando units get close to 60.

The last time I looked, only about 1000 deposits on RCI were in the 33-60 range (out of about 175k).


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## Ridewithme38 (Jun 2, 2011)

MichaelColey said:


> 60 is definitely the highest.  NYC timeshares are the main ones at or near that level.  Some week 51/52 Orlando units get close to 60.
> 
> The last time I looked, only about 1000 deposits on RCI were in the 33-60 range (out of about 175k).



Both great news...i was a little worried about my week...when it doesn't fall on july 4th its only worth 37 TPU's (The small side that i'd trade worth 18) But it looks like i shouldn't really be worried about 18...Sure i won't get top of the line 3br places for that, or disney...But sounds like i'll atleast be getting the average level stuff, maybe even slightly more then that...and when it does fall on the 4th...i maybe able to get TWO weeks for my 25 TPU!!


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## carl2591 (Jun 2, 2011)

Ride
first,, what is the place giving 40-50 TPu..  edit... the patriots place wk 27 unit.. is that a 2 bed lock or 3 bed lock.. 

and another question is how can you determine trade value of EOY units without know the unit number.

was looking on redweek and see a unit I like but it EOY usage. I wanted to find out what the TPU's were giving before trying to figure out is i want it..


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## Carolinian (Jun 3, 2011)

Since points lite (aka TPU) often differ depending on whether one is talking about the number given for a deposit or the number required for an exchange into the very same week at the very same time,  when you mix the discussion of both, you are comparing apples and oranges.

RCI is institutionalizing trades up by regularly giving more points lite to certain resorts or areas that they are worth.  What they are really worth can be seen by what RCI is offering them at for exchange.  It is also institutionalizing the shortchanging of other weeks by regularly offering them at points lite levels higher than what they give for the deposit, so that those owners can not even trade into their own week! Of course, which side of this situation a timeshare owner comes out on has little to do with exchanging, but on the contrary it has to do with what is advantageous for RCI's rental program and insider relationships with developers.

RCI is also offering trades up for an extra fee to a special category of owner, those who have lockouts.  Split and recombine and pay an extra fee and voila, they can trade up.  If RCI is going to offer trades up for an extra fee, they at least ought to offer it to all their members.


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## eal (Jun 3, 2011)

I own a 2-bedroom unit in Whistler that gets 60 TPU's for President's Week.


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## MuranoJo (Jun 3, 2011)

Carolinian said:


> RCI is also offering trades up for an extra fee to a special category of owner, those who have lockouts.  Split and recombine and pay an extra fee and voila, they can trade up.  If RCI is going to offer trades up for an extra fee, they at least ought to offer it to all their members.



RCI does offer the combine-for-a-fee option for all owners, not just those who have lockouts.  It's also available to those who have multiple deposits, or leftover TPUs from other exchanges, etc.  

Of course, I can see why they do this for lockouts:  Two deposits vs. one = two exchange fees. 

However, from a lockout owner standpoint, aren't two units for one maintenance fee also more valuable in many cases when the owner wants to rent? (Meaning they should also bring more value when exchanging.)  For example, owners could rent their 2 bd for $2k or they could rent the 1 bd for $1.5k and the studio for $900.

I think these have always been benefits to a lockoff--splitting to rent or splitting to deposit.


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## Carolinian (Jun 3, 2011)

They give substantially more points lite to dividing and then recombining a lockoff and payment of the fee, an opportunity that is simply not offered to owners of a standard 2BR. A standard 2BR owner cannot split his week, pay a fee, recombine it, and get substantially more points lite by doing that.  And in family vacation destinations, like Orlando, this would tend to lead to an oversupply of smaller units and could eventually lead to a shortage of larger units.  This would make it even more out of step with supply and demand.

It is not just Orlando, where 2BR's are much more in demand than 1BR's.  That is also true at the OBX, and I suspect anywhere families tend to vacation.  It may not be the case in less family-oriented destinations as, say, Las Vegas.  RCI's numbers, then, for any family-oriented destination encourage people to deposit in a form, smaller units, that is opposite where the higher demand is.  They are standing supply and demand on its head to try to get more money for themselves, one combining fees, and two rental or exchange fees.

But the lockouts is the smaller part of the problem.  The bigger problem is overpointing certain areas or resorts allowing built-in trades up for those areas or resorts.  One of the defenders of Points Lite on these boards who owns in an overbuilt area has commented that he has a week which RCI takes 9 points lite to exchange in, but awards him 32 points for his deposit.  Well, it is clear that the market is saying the week is really worth 9 points, and what RCI is doing is letting him trade up substantially.  If his week is worth 9 points lite, he ought to get 9 points lite for his deposit, not 32.  People like that fiercely defend the new system, as one would expect.  They have gotten a windfall and don't want to lose it.  People like me who rattle that cage represent a potential threat to their windfall.




muranojo said:


> RCI does offer the combine-for-a-fee option for all owners, not just those who have lockouts.  It's also available to those who have multiple deposits, or leftover TPUs from other exchanges, etc.
> 
> Of course, I can see why they do this for lockouts:  Two deposits vs. one = two exchange fees.
> 
> ...


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## tombo (Jun 3, 2011)

muranojo said:


> RCI does offer the combine-for-a-fee option for all owners, not just those who have lockouts.  It's also available to those who have multiple deposits, or leftover TPUs from other exchanges, etc.
> 
> Of course, I can see why they do this for lockouts:  Two deposits vs. one = two exchange fees.
> 
> ...



Your post and response is logical and spot on. Of course RCI gets more income from exchange fees on 2 separate lockoffs than they do from one exchange. I would make it attractive for a depositer to split their weeks too if I was RCI in order to get 2 exchange fees. And yes many owners can get more money by splitting their lock-off and renting 2 weeks to 2 different families than they could renting the whole unit to one family.


RCI combining for a fee is available to all, not just those who own lock-offs. Once again you are correct and Carolinian is wrong. Carolinian wants to condemn RCI no matter what the facts are and no matter how well the new program is working for the VAST MAJORITY of TUGGERS. 

Carolinian has not deposited or exchanged a single week under the new weeks program yet he wants to condemn the system at every turn. Those of us WHO ARE ACTUALLY EXCHANGING USING RCI and who like the new program MUCH better than the old system are told we are wrong constantly by a guy who has never used the program and never will. Is that open minded, unbiased, analytical? Nope Carolinian hates RCI and looks for any bad thing he can find to post on his personal negative RCI PR campaign. 

When I ask for advice on most anything I ask for advice from someone who has PERSONAL EXPERIENCE and some level of expertise, not someone who hates something they have never used.  To any reading these threads and looking for RCI advice, look for advice from those who have mastered the new program. Do not be misled by a poster who relentlessly posts negative comments about an exchange program they have never even used once and never will no matter what facts and successes people post about on TUG.


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## rickandcindy23 (Jun 3, 2011)

Carolinian, why do you think lockoffs are the only people who can combine their weeks for higher TPU's? 

I love the new system.  I can take all of my Colorado weeks, combine them, and use the points for MANY exchanges.  We own five Colorado weeks that are worth 18-29 TPU's, so I combine them to get around 125 TPU's for $2,500 or so.  That's about $20 per TPU, so a Disney resort costs me $500 + exchange fee.  Our favorite resort on Kauai, Shearwater, is only about 25-30 TPU's.  I just got a 2 bed at Hilton's new Parc Soleil in Orlando for 10 TPU's.  TEN!  That's incredible.

Then there are my other weeks, which are better values for trading.  My trading power on Val Chatelle is way up, and that was quite important to me.


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## MichaelColey (Jun 3, 2011)

Carolinian said:


> They give substantially more points lite to dividing and then recombining a lockoff and payment of the fee, an opportunity that is simply not offered to owners of a standard 2BR. A standard 2BR owner cannot split his week, pay a fee, recombine it, and get substantially more points lite by doing that.


Owners of lockoffs have the advantage OUTSIDE OF RCI as well. You can split and rent one side out, sometimes for enough to cover your maintenance fee. Or you can split and rent both sides out, making quite a bit more than renting it as a whole. Or you can split it and deposit each side separately into one of the smaller exchanges (or II if your resort is affiliated) and get two weeks. Or you can split and stay two separate weeks in a smaller unit. Owners of a non-lockoff 2BR unit don't have those options.

This was a large part of my decision to heavily favor lockoffs, and I bought almost all of my timeshares BEFORE 11/15/10, when RCI made trading powers transparent. That transparency only reinforced what I already knew (and made me realize that lockoffs were even better than I thought).

You can rant and rave about how unfair it is that some people can have an advantage from lockoffs, but you're just spitting in the wind. There are reasons that lockoffs are worth more, whether you like it or not.


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## Carolinian (Jun 3, 2011)

A standard 2BR owner CANNOT split and combine.

A 2BR lockout owner CAN split and combine and get a lot more points lite by paying an extra fee.

That is a huge difference.

The fact that either one can combine leftover or completely different weeks, doesn't make them equal at all.  Far from it.

But this is much the smaller of the issues.  The big one is the overpointing and the built in trades up that guarantees to the fortunate few.  If a week is only worth the 9 points lite that RCI offers it for as an exchange, it should NOT be given 32 points lite as a deposit. Period!

Wonder how many points lite RCI gave to the depositor of that Hilton in Orlando?  I'll bet it was more than 10!  But 10 is what it is really worth.




rickandcindy23 said:


> Carolinian, why do you think lockoffs are the only people who can combine their weeks for higher TPU's?
> 
> I love the new system.  I can take all of my Colorado weeks, combine them, and use the points for MANY exchanges.  We own five Colorado weeks that are worth 18-29 TPU's, so I combine them to get around 125 TPU's for $2,500 or so.  That's about $20 per TPU, so a Disney resort costs me $500 + exchange fee.  Our favorite resort on Kauai, Shearwater, is only about 25-30 TPU's.  I just got a 2 bed at Hilton's new Parc Soleil in Orlando for 10 TPU's.  TEN!  That's incredible.
> 
> Then there are my other weeks, which are better values for trading.  My trading power on Val Chatelle is way up, and that was quite important to me.


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## rickandcindy23 (Jun 3, 2011)

> Wonder how many points lite RCI gave to the depositor of that Hilton in Orlando? I'll bet it was more than 10! But 10 is what it is really worth.


Hilton bulk banks large numbers of weeks for their members, and the members have a portal to exchange into RCI inventory for a certain number of Hilton points.  Everything is based on unit size.  So a 1 bedroom of 3,400 points trades for a 1 bedroom in RCI.  Hilton owners pay a premium for these exchanges.  I wouldn't use Hilton points for that, if I owned Hilton.  

We own Shell Points that cost about 2 cents each.  I get them free on eBay, usually with free use.  It costs 2,500 points to exchange into a studio in RCI through the portal Shell provides to owners.  3,500 for a 1 bedroom, 4,500 for a 2 bedroom.  So the Hilton Parc Soleil would cost me $900 dollars in that system.   

But the Manhattan Club are 58-60 TPU's, and I can get one of the summer studios for 2,500 Shell Points.  So that is a great value.  

I believe RCI's TPU system is the most fair, but I will take advantage of exchanges through Shell's portal whenever I can.


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## Carolinian (Jun 3, 2011)

1BR's are a lot harder to rent than 2BR's most places.  As someone renting his own unit, I would much rather have a 2BR out there for rent than chancing two 1BR rentals.

Many of these lockoffs are in family vacation areas, where the bigger demand is for larger units.  Encouraging deposits as smaller units is simply defying the logic of supply and demand, and standing that on its head when it comes to valuation for exchange.  It is just another example of RCI's numbers being based on what RCI thinks will bring it more dollars, not the internal market dynamics of an exchange system.

While the flexibility of doing different things with lock-outs, admittedly has an appeal, the main OBX opportunities for that have been in developer-controlled resorts, something I avoid like the plague, and I do not recall seeing that feature in any European resort I have considered owning at.

It is not so much that it is ''unfair'' for people to have certain advantages by owning a lock-out.  What is wrong is an exchange system that seems to thumb its nose at every turn at the realities of supply and demand, and this is just one example.  And if people can trade up for an extra fee, that ought to be availible to all.

But again, the lockouts are just a small part of the problem.  The overpointing to try to cover RCI's rental to the public activities is the big problem.  Those who happen to own in the areas RCI finds it beneficial to either their own rental operations or to developers they are in bed with to overpoint, are along for the ride and piggyback on the overpointing.  Those of you who get this windfall certainly do not want to see it end, and I am not surprised that you constantly try to sing the supposed praises of the system that gave you the windfall.




MichaelColey said:


> Owners of lockoffs have the advantage OUTSIDE OF RCI as well. You can split and rent one side out, sometimes for enough to cover your maintenance fee. Or you can split and rent both sides out, making quite a bit more than renting it as a whole. Or you can split it and deposit each side separately into one of the smaller exchanges (or II if your resort is affiliated) and get two weeks. Or you can split and stay two separate weeks in a smaller unit. Owners of a non-lockoff 2BR unit don't have those options.
> 
> This was a large part of my decision to heavily favor lockoffs, and I bought almost all of my timeshares BEFORE 11/15/10, when RCI made trading powers transparent. That transparency only reinforced what I already knew (and made me realize that lockoffs were even better than I thought).
> 
> You can rant and rave about how unfair it is that some people can have an advantage from lockoffs, but you're just spitting in the wind. There are reasons that lockoffs are worth more, whether you like it or not.


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## Carolinian (Jun 3, 2011)

You consider it fair for a system to offer a week like Bill's for exchange for 9 points lite but give him 32 to deposit it?????  Or the VV@P week a Tugger found and posted where a year in advance, RCI was giving 50 points lite for a deposit but offering the verysame week at the very same time for exchange at 10 points lite? (Apparently after the spotlight was put on that one, those numbers have since been revised but they still give a lot more points lite for a deposit than they want for an exchange).

Or is it fair for RCI to offer Manhattan Club owners in the 30's for a deposit but at the very same time requiring 58-60 points lite to trade in?  Sooner or later MC owners will figure out they are being hosed by RCI and wake up and give their weeks to SFX.

I guess the answer with the Hilton week is that with the different systems, we do not know how many points lite RCI gave for that week.




rickandcindy23 said:


> Hilton bulk banks large numbers of weeks for their members, and the members have a portal to exchange into RCI inventory for a certain number of Hilton points.  Everything is based on unit size.  So a 1 bedroom of 3,400 points trades for a 1 bedroom in RCI.  Hilton owners pay a premium for these exchanges.  I wouldn't use Hilton points for that, if I owned Hilton.
> 
> We own Shell Points that cost about 2 cents each.  I get them free on eBay, usually with free use.  It costs 2,500 points to exchange into a studio in RCI through the portal Shell provides to owners.  3,500 for a 1 bedroom, 4,500 for a 2 bedroom.  So the Hilton Parc Soleil would cost me $900 dollars in that system.
> 
> ...


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## MichaelColey (Jun 3, 2011)

Carolinian said:


> 1BR's are a lot harder to rent than 2BR's most places. As someone renting his own unit, I would much rather have a 2BR out there for rent than chancing two 1BR rentals.


You and I (and most here on TUG) think that way, but the majority of renters don't.  They're used to TINY hotel rooms, and to them a studio or a 1BR is a luxury.  It takes some experience before you can wrap your mind around the concept of getting a 2BR (or larger) unit.

Before I discovered timeshares, I seldom ever got a suite (other than an occassional upgrade to a Junior Suite).  Once, I rented a presidential suite (which had two bedrooms and a large living area) at a really run down hotel in San Antonio for about $150/night, with a large group.  They refurbished the hotel and started charging more like $500/night for that room not long after that, so we never got to do that again.  Another time, we rented a 1BR suite at Grandview in Las Vegas, and it was incredibly spacious to us at that time.  (We've never stayed in anything anywhere near that small since we got into timeshares!)


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## Ridewithme38 (Jun 3, 2011)

Carolinian said:


> While the flexibility of doing different things with lock-outs, admittedly has an appeal, the main OBX opportunities for that have been in developer-controlled resorts, something I avoid like the plague, and I do not recall seeing that feature in any European resort I have considered owning at.



It seems to me the problem you have with RCI isn't the system itself but the way it treats what most people would consider a poor vacation location...the OBX...Others have found that other low travel locations like South Africa have also gotten lower points with the new Points Lite System....They've gotten rid of their SA TS's because of that...Maybe since the OBX has such a low value....and you are looking for something with a higher Value in Points Lite you should buy something in Myrtle Beach or Virginia Beach...Places people actually go to, that aren't as over built as the OBX

The thing is, RCI is sorta a Private Company...would you walk into a diner and start yelling about how it only costs them $5 a pound for fries but they sell them for $7.50 a plate? We've got a pretty good idea of how the system works on this forum...if its not working for YOU, maybe you've got to make some changes


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## rickandcindy23 (Jun 3, 2011)

> I guess the answer with the Hilton week is that with the different systems, we do not know how many points lite RCI gave for that week.


Hilton and Shell have no Points Lite values for trading back in.  It's all based on unit size.  The beauty of my Shell points is I can get inventory from weeks or points.  I see Shearwater in both.  A Wyndham Shearwater on Kauai in prime season gets 109,950 RCI points (at 1.2 cent per point, my cost, that is expensive).  I can get Shearwater with my Shell for 4,500 points.  That is a great way for me to use Shell.

You can get a 1 bedroom at Manhattan Club for the same number of Shell or Hilton points you can get a 1 bedroom in Orlando in the slow season, because it's all "red".  Who would use Hilton for Orlando?  People who want DVC, which all cost 25 TPU's, except the holidays, where the same weeks cost slightly more points (32-37).  

I would rather stay in the Hiltons, but if it's more costly to use what you own, which I suspect it is, then trade into the DVC weeks and save money.  

Disney owners don't get a certain number of Points Lite either.  

Yes, I think the system is more fair than ever.  It may not be perfect, but I am speaking to what I own versus what I get.  I am well pleased.


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## Carolinian (Jun 3, 2011)

You want to get personal with what I own, never mind that of those I own, I have posted that my OBX week does okay in points lite, and it is my UK summer weeks that really get hosed.  The examples I tend to use of the rare hard to find places that get screwed in Points Lite are ones I do not own like London, St. John in winter, Bermuda in summer, Charleston in warm season, Savannah / Tybee Island in summer, the French Riviera in August, Venice, etc.  Some people here have a real tunnel vision for what they personally own and some seem to want to attribute that to others.  I don't own either ultra-rare timeshares (although my southern England summer weeks are close) not do I own in the classic overbuilt areas of the US or Europe.  When I analyze the system what stands out are the two ends, which is what I have looked at - the rare weeks on one end and the overbuilt areas on the others.  Comparing those two, the system is rigged and stands supply and demand on its head.

As to the changes in what I personally own, the one thing that hit me more than any other was the fact that my summer UK weeks, which outtraded my summer OBX week in the ancien regime at RCI, now have only 2/3rds the points lite.  RCI claimed they were not changing value, but as others have seen with their own weeks, RCI was speaking with a forked tougue.

Now to set a few of your fallacies straight:

You seem to simply not have much information on the popularity of travel destinations in your post.  Someone else posted visitor numbers on the OBX compared to other areas in one of the thread in the last few weeks.  I suggest you go back and look at it, and then comprehend that the number of timeshare units per visitor on the OBX is a lot less than some of the other areas.  The whole thing is about SUPPLY vs. DEMAND, and you have to take both into account, as owners of overbuilt areas such as yourself rarely want to do.  As far as Virginia Beach goes, many Virginians much prefer the ambiance of the OBX and that is why they go there instead of the urbanized Virginia Beach.  At most timeshare resorts on the OBX, the majority of owners are Virginians.

As to South Africa, you post also shows that you simply have not looked at the visitor numbers.  I suggest you do so before shooting from the hip with such a post.  But the RCI availibility numbers in its exchange pool also tells the tale.  There are usually about the same number of availible weeks in one overbuilt resort in overbuilt Orlando as there are in all 183 resorts in all of South Africa.  Low availibility means a positive supply / demand curve while high availibility means a flat supply / demand curve.




Ridewithme38 said:


> It seems to me the problem you have with RCI isn't the system itself but the way it treats what most people would consider a poor vacation location...the OBX...Others have found that other low travel locations like South Africa have also gotten lower points with the new Points Lite System....They've gotten rid of their SA TS's because of that...Maybe since the OBX has such a low value....and you are looking for something with a higher Value in Points Lite you should buy something in Myrtle Beach or Virginia Beach...Places people actually go to, that aren't as over built as the OBX
> 
> The thing is, RCI is sorta a Private Company...would you walk into a diner and start yelling about how it only costs them $5 a pound for fries but they sell them for $7.50 a plate? We've got a pretty good idea of how the system works on this forum...if its not working for YOU, maybe you've got to make some changes


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## Ridewithme38 (Jun 3, 2011)

Carolinian said:


> But the RCI availibility numbers in its exchange pool also tells the tale.  There are usually about the same number of availible weeks in one overbuilt resort in overbuilt Orlando as there are in all 183 resorts in all of South Africa.  Low availibility means a positive supply / demand curve while high availibility means a flat supply / demand curve.



Yes, but people are actually renting those weeks in Orlando....thats the difference...Low Availablity only means a positive supply/demand curve...IF there is a DEMAND...places like the OBX, while some may like to go occationally, i don't know why...aren't anything like places like Orlando which is a HAVE to go for every family atleast once...and A LOT go every single year...There is a reason Orlando was able to be so overbuilt with BOTH hotels and TS's and you don't see these places closing down daily...People go there ALOT

Meh, in the end does it really matter what RCI decides to base its points values on? its their game, we're just playing it....


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## Carolinian (Jun 3, 2011)

If one uses the tunnel vision of what they own and what they trade for, there are winners and there are losers.  You still don't anwer about whether you think RCI giving a lot more points lite for a week in an overbuilt area than they give it out on exchange for is ''fair''.  Yes, the person who gets that windfall loves it to death as we have seen from posts on these boards, and the person who trades in gets the illusion they are getting a bargain.  But is it fair and honest?  Similarly, the person who owns a rare, hard to get week for is given a lot less points lite for a deposit than RCI charges for an exchange - have they been treated fairly?




rickandcindy23 said:


> Hilton and Shell have no Points Lite values for trading back in.  It's all based on unit size.  The beauty of my Shell points is I can get inventory from weeks or points.  I see Shearwater in both.  A Wyndham Shearwater on Kauai in prime season gets 109,950 RCI points (at 1.2 cent per point, my cost, that is expensive).  I can get Shearwater with my Shell for 4,500 points.  That is a great way for me to use Shell.
> 
> You can get a 1 bedroom at Manhattan Club for the same number of Shell or Hilton points you can get a 1 bedroom in Orlando in the slow season, because it's all "red".  Who would use Hilton for Orlando?  People who want DVC, which all cost 25 TPU's, except the holidays, where the same weeks cost slightly more points (32-37).
> 
> ...


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## Ridewithme38 (Jun 3, 2011)

Carolinian said:


> If one uses the tunnel vision of what they own and what they trade for, there are winners and there are losers.  You still don't anwer about whether you think RCI giving a lot more points lite for a week in an overbuilt area than they give it out on exchange for is ''fair''.  Yes, the person who gets that windfall loves it to death as we have seen from posts on these boards, and the person who trades in gets the illusion they are getting a bargain.  But is it fair and honest?  Similarly, the person who owns a rare, hard to get week for is given a lot less points lite for a deposit than RCI charges for an exchange - have they been treated fairly?



Define over built...Are you talking about places like Orlando that have ALOT of TS and Hotels, yet during holiday and summer weeks are STILL fully booked..or places like the OBX that have 10-15 TS that stay at half or less capacity during all seasons?


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## Carolinian (Jun 3, 2011)

And those with the rare weeks should realize that they are getting hosed and should not play RCI's rigged game.  They should use alternatives, using their weeks at their resorts, renting their weeks, or using other exchange companies.  Let the people who own in overbuilt areas all exchange among each other with their inflated points lite numbers, and let those with the hard to get weeks move on with their weeks where they will be treated fairly.

If you don't know why people want to go to the OBX, I suggest you look at a map.  There is a thing called a beach which inland Orlando just doesn't have.  I lived in Florida for a year and like going there, but except for obligatory trips for young family members to see the mouse on very rare occaisions, I would bypass Orlando entirely.  If I am going to Florida for a vacation, it will be within walking distance of a beach.  Now if you want to compare people who vacation at the beach with those who do so by visiting a mouse, then the mouse is going to come on very much on the short end of the stick.

Overbuilt, BTW, means they have more supply than demand.  Yes, a lot of people go there, but there is more supply in timeshares relative to the timeshare demand.  It is the relation between those two that matter, not the absolute numbers of either one.




Ridewithme38 said:


> Yes, but people are actually renting those weeks in Orlando....thats the difference...Low Availablity only means a positive supply/demand curve...IF there is a DEMAND...places like the OBX, while some may like to go occationally, i don't know why...aren't anything like places like Orlando which is a HAVE to go for every family atleast once...and A LOT go every single year...There is a reason Orlando was able to be so overbuilt with BOTH hotels and TS's and you don't see these places closing down daily...People go there ALOT
> 
> Meh, in the end does it really matter what RCI decides to base its points values on? its their game, we're just playing it....


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## Carolinian (Jun 3, 2011)

Lets talk southern England, where deposits never show up online with any exchange company as they are immediately taken by ongoing searches (if it is RCI it might be a search for the rental pool rather than for a member, of course).  This is high demand relative to supply.  On the other end of the spectrum are the overbuilt areas like Orlando or the Canary Islands where there is ALWAYS a glut of inventory availible online.  Heck, my resort in the UK rarely shows any online availibility any time of year, which is a stark contrast to the overbuilt areas which always have loads of weeks avalible.  It is simply supply and demand that seperate the men from the boys.

You clearly know absolutely nothing about occupancy at either place you refere to. And you also don't seem to comprehend that number of timeshares has only a passing relationship to number of timeshare units, which is the key metric.  Two resorts on the OBX have less than 10 timeshare units each.  Several others are under 30 units. Only four have any size and those would only be medium sized at best by Orlando or even MB standards.  Then most summer owners use their weeks rather than exchanging or renting.  In fact, year round at the resorts I am personally familiar with, a majority of owners use their weeks.  The resort on which I served on the board was generally full from spring break until Thanksgiving, plus Christmas and New Years and had fair occupancy in February and early March.  The off weeks were 48-50 and 1-6.  We had five resorts that helped each other out finding spare units for each others board members for meetings, and I can remember early November meetings that between five resorts we still had to rent hotel rooms for a majority of our board members as there were not enough timeshare units availible.  You also might want to drive down the beach road from Kitty Hawk to Nags Head on an October weekend and see how many motels you can find without a ''no vacancy'' sign.  It won't be many.




Ridewithme38 said:


> Define over built...Are you talking about places like Orlando that have ALOT of TS and Hotels, yet during holiday and summer weeks are STILL fully booked..or places like the OBX that have 10-15 TS that stay at half or less capacity during all seasons?


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## Ridewithme38 (Jun 3, 2011)

Can i just repeat that the OBX is no good i think my friend once went there and caught cooties and ask what any of the rambling posts about how evil RCI is has to do with the Original Topic??  All these long posts are making my eyes tired


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## MichaelColey (Jun 3, 2011)

Carolinian said:


> If one uses the tunnel vision of what they own and what they trade for, there are winners and there are losers.


Call it tunnel vision if you want, but why would I care about anything other than what I own and what I want to trade for?


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## rickandcindy23 (Jun 3, 2011)

Ridewithme38 said:


> Can i just repeat that the OBX is no good.



The Outer Banks is a very popular place.  

Again, 60 points is the highest value you can get, and as Michael pointed out so well, only about 1,000 units require 33 or so and above.  The value of weeks is higher, across the board, than you can get the same thing.  It's just how it is.  

I do think the system is fair.  Why would Manhattan Club owners get less points for their weeks?  I don't know if it's true.  What is your proof?  I guess I will have to look at the deposit calculator sometime.


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## Ridewithme38 (Jun 3, 2011)

rickandcindy23 said:


> Again, 60 points is the highest value you can get, and as Michael pointed out so well, only about 1,000 units require 33 or so and above.  The value of weeks is higher, across the board, than you can get the same thing.  It's just how it is.



I'd be interested to see how many are about 25 TPU...since thats my trading limit without combining




rickandcindy23 said:


> I do think the system is fair.  Why would Manhattan Club owners get less points for their weeks?  I don't know if it's true.  What is your proof?  I guess I will have to look at the deposit calculator sometime.



Week 26 of 2012 at the Manhattan club in all the 

one bedrooms with 4(4) get 55...
The 1br listed as 2(2) (TRC1BR) gets 53
Studios with 4(2) get 50
Studios with 2(2) get 50

But i can't look to see what it costs to trade into those, i don't have access to that yet


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## DavidnJudy (Jun 3, 2011)

Wow. You guys need to agree to disagree and move on.


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## rickandcindy23 (Jun 3, 2011)

Ridewithme38 said:


> I'd be interested to see how many are about 25 TPU...since thats my trading limit without combining
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Okay, so Manhattan Club is higher to trade into than one gets for a deposit.  That's just wrong, and so Carolinian is very right about that.  

Ride, if you watch Sightings, you will see a lot of posts with the TPU right there to view.  For example, it was 23 points for an early August 2 bedroom oceanfront resort on Kauai (this is my favorite resort, and we happen to own two weeks).  My maintenance fees on my weeks run about $1,200 per week, so getting a prime summer week for 23 points, that's incredible.


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## bnoble (Jun 3, 2011)

> Before I discovered timeshares, I seldom ever got a suite (other than an occassional upgrade to a Junior Suite).


Interesting.  We *never* stayed in a regular hotel room.  Ever.  We generally rented private homes from an owner (for Orlando and OBX), or stayed at a Residence Inn/Homewood Suites-type place.  So, for us, timeshare-style vacationing was a no-brainer.


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## rickandcindy23 (Jun 3, 2011)

We stayed at a Marriott's Residence Inn once for a few nights in Indianapolis, while at a band competition for our kids.  I didn't like it, because we are timeshare people.  I liked the breakfast the hotel provided, but that was it.  The place still felt like a motel to me.  I would just as soon stay at a more upscale hotel for the two of us.  

The funny thing about timeshare is once you have experienced it, you never want to go back.  I love that I can stay anywhere I want in Orlando without paying more than a cheap motel price.  We go during off season times.  

Ride needs to trade into a few resorts in Orlando and really experience the luxury of what 10-12 TPU's will get.


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## Ridewithme38 (Jun 3, 2011)

rickandcindy23 said:


> Ride needs to trade into a few resorts in Orlando and really experience the luxury of what 10-12 TPU's will get.



I am really excited to do this! The SECOND i can i'm going to deposit the small side of my Lock-off(says 25 TPU now) into RCI and start searching!  Although i don't know that i'll be staying in orlando...i like places i can drive to


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## vacationhopeful (Jun 3, 2011)

Ridewithme38 said:


> ...  Although i don't know that i'll be staying in orlando...i like places i can drive to



Ride,
That is why a trip to Orlando is called "ROAD TRIP".

As a kid, it was an adventure. Even the time us older 4 kids claimed our baby 2.5 yo sister was in the back of the station wagon at the gas station and most of us drove away. :hysterical: 

A 100 miles later, :rofl: . 

At least she wasn't crying when we got back to the gas station.


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## MichaelColey (Jun 3, 2011)

Ridewithme38 said:


> I'd be interested to see how many are about 25 TPU...since thats my trading limit without combining


They don't make it easy to see totals for specific trading powers, just their predefined ranges.  Here's the current inventory that I can see (worldwide for units of any size):

1-10: 91,126
11-14: 33,329
15-18: 26,982
19-23: 17,973
24-32: 7,433
33+: 889

So if you have a trading power of 23, there are only about 8k units (out of nearly 180k) that you can't exchange into (without combining).  If you have a trading power of 32, there are fewer than 1k.  With a trading power of 37 (the highest one in my account, so it's easy for me to see the difference), there are only 224 that you can't get.

If you cut things down to 2BR+ units in the United States, here's the breakdown:

1-10: 11,889
11-14: 5,604
15-18: 5,905
19-23: 5,377
24-32: 2,416
33+: 297


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## puppymommo (Jun 3, 2011)

Ridewithme38 said:


> Sure i won't get top of the line 3br places for that, or disney...But sounds like i'll atleast be getting the average level stuff, maybe even slightly more then that...and when it does fall on the 4th...i maybe able to get TWO weeks for my 25 TPU!!



Ride, there are DVC units (mostly 1bd or studio) on RCI starting at 25 TPU.  Don't rule out Disney if that is what you really want.


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## Ridewithme38 (Jun 3, 2011)

puppymommo said:


> Ride, there are DVC units (mostly 1bd or studio) on RCI starting at 25 TPU.  Don't rule out Disney if that is what you really want.



I REALLY want Disney Animal Kingdom Week 52 2+br Savannah view....I know this is one of those impossible things to get...but that will eventually be my dream vacation once i'm able to find it...i figure my daughter is 5 now...and my brothers wife just got pregnant...i'd love to go with a big crowd...so maybe 3br+(Which makes it an even harder find!)

So i'm hoping to find it for 2015-2018!  I'm totally starting my planning soon =)


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## MichaelColey (Jun 3, 2011)

You certainly won't get that with 25 TPU.


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## Ridewithme38 (Jun 3, 2011)

MichaelColey said:


> You certainly won't get that with 25 TPU.



haha, i don't know what it would take...i'm thinking a bribe to the Owners of Disney and offering my firstborn(2nd born ok?)  to the person who controls RCI Reservations....But i will get it eventually! Even if i have to take a few years off of vacationing to do it!


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## tomandrobin (Jun 3, 2011)

MichaelColey said:


> They don't make it easy to see totals for specific trading powers, just their predefined ranges.  Here's the current inventory that I can see (worldwide for units of any size):
> 
> 1-10: 91,126
> 11-14: 33,329
> ...



Nice post putting TPU's into perspective.


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## tomandrobin (Jun 3, 2011)

Ridewithme38 said:


> I REALLY want Disney Animal Kingdom Week 52 2+br Savannah view....I know this is one of those impossible things to get...but that will eventually be my dream vacation once i'm able to find it...i figure my daughter is 5 now...and my brothers wife just got pregnant...i'd love to go with a big crowd...so maybe 3br+(Which makes it an even harder find!)
> 
> So i'm hoping to find it for 2015-2018!  I'm totally starting my planning soon =)



12/25/11-1/1/12 Sun-Sun is 485 DVC pts , the Sat-Sat reservation is the same amount. If you made that trade, even for 35 TPU it would be a steal.


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## Ridewithme38 (Jun 3, 2011)

tomandrobin said:


> Nice post putting TPU's into perspective.



Yah it really was a great post...made my day! I'm kinda surprised by it also...I'm about 90% sure that if my resort was offered less then 10 TPU for a room..i won't deposit it in RCI...i'd find a different place...i'm surprised to see how many did


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## sandkastle4966 (Jun 3, 2011)

Carolinian said:


> A standard 2BR owner CANNOT split and combine.
> 
> A 2BR lockout owner CAN split and combine and get a lot more points lite by paying an extra fee.
> 
> ...




YOU have the same opportunity to leverage this FACT that you cannot change.  Go get a 2 bedroom lockoff for  $1 !  YOU choose not to.  There is nothing wrong with UNDERSTANDING the FACTS and leveraging them.

I am quite happy with RCI and the transparency.  I compine TPUs all the time.  I DUMPED my lockoff - I got bupkus for each side separately.  I got accepted that which I cannot change.....and took action.  (I no longer own it).


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## sandkastle4966 (Jun 3, 2011)

Ridewithme38 said:


> All these long posts are making my eyes tired



yup - once again, a worthwhile discussion has turned into the evils of RCI as seen by someone who does not deposit weeks into RCI.

FYI - For our area,  Myrtle is THE place to go, and OBX is substantially closer.  To each his own.


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## sandkastle4966 (Jun 3, 2011)

Ridewithme38 said:


> I REALLY want Disney Animal Kingdom Week 52 2+br Savannah view....I know this is one of those impossible things to get...but that will eventually be my dream vacation once i'm able to find it...i figure my daughter is 5 now...and my brothers wife just got pregnant...i'd love to go with a big crowd...so maybe 3br+(Which makes it an even harder find!)
> 
> So i'm hoping to find it for 2015-2018!  I'm totally starting my planning soon =)



my 2 cents.....WHY go one of the busiest times of the year?  Go when its SLLOOOOOOOWWW.. October is fantastic (Halloween decorations),  or go the first 2 weeks of December.  Enjoy the non-crowds.  You can get DVC in early December.

School issues?  Since when is grades k - 6 a deal breaker?   I am a terrible parent ,  I took my kids out of school EVERY year (including high school) to go skiing.  Both finished HS with 4.0+,  one graduated Cum Laude from an Ivy League school.  Both are employed directly out of college (and not living at my house !)


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## TUGBrian (Jun 3, 2011)

FYI for those continuing in this thread...dont bother posting if you cant act like an adult and be polite please.


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## Ridewithme38 (Jun 3, 2011)

edited: Yup, just realized the non-edited post might have seemed funny to me...but not have been a good idea!


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## Carolinian (Jun 4, 2011)

rickandcindy23 said:


> The Outer Banks is a very popular place.
> 
> Again, 60 points is the highest value you can get, and as Michael pointed out so well, only about 1,000 units require 33 or so and above.  The value of weeks is higher, across the board, than you can get the same thing.  It's just how it is.
> 
> I do think the system is fair.  Why would Manhattan Club owners get less points for their weeks?  I don't know if it's true.  What is your proof?  I guess I will have to look at the deposit calculator sometime.



There were some January - February weeks where they wanted 58-60 points lite but only gaves in the 30's for MC.

JLB has posted a number of examples particularly from SW Florida on another site where people could not trade into their own week, i.e. that RCI gave fewer points lite than they charged to trade in.

Value levels of points lite really don't matter so much given their arbitariness.  What is more important is the relationship between the rare hard to find weeks and the extreme common dime a dozen weeks that are always out there to trade into.  Sanibel / Captiva, for example, ought to be worth several Orlando weeks, especially in snow bird season.  London ought to be worth 10 to 12 of the best Canary Island weeks.

The other thing that is important is that very often the points in do not match the points out.  If, as in Bill's example in another thread, he is being gifted 32  points lite for a week that is only worth 9 because that is what RCI charges to trade in, then something is seriously wrong with the system.  That is a massive trade up and when RCI is doing this on a regular basis, it makes those who have a rare week that gets this number or less not want to have to compete with the overpointed for good inventory.

I can see why those fortunate few who have the windfall of being overpointed fiercely defend the system.  I can see why those for whom it has been a wash may not care one way or the other.   But for those who have been hosed, they need to find an alternative to RCI whether it is using their week, renting their week, or using a different exchange company.   RCI's numbers racket is so corrupt it makes you wonder if they are channeling Al Capone.


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## Carolinian (Jun 4, 2011)

You might want to talk to timeshare specialist rental agencies.  You will find that most renters indeed prefer larger units, and the 1BR's are last out the door.  The only exception is if the choice in between a 1BR beachfront and a 2BR or larger drive to the beach unit, and in that case the smaller unit does usually win because vacationers in a beach area place great value on actually being on the beach.




MichaelColey said:


> You and I (and most here on TUG) think that way, but the majority of renters don't.  They're used to TINY hotel rooms, and to them a studio or a 1BR is a luxury.  It takes some experience before you can wrap your mind around the concept of getting a 2BR (or larger) unit.
> 
> Before I discovered timeshares, I seldom ever got a suite (other than an occassional upgrade to a Junior Suite).  Once, I rented a presidential suite (which had two bedrooms and a large living area) at a really run down hotel in San Antonio for about $150/night, with a large group.  They refurbished the hotel and started charging more like $500/night for that room not long after that, so we never got to do that again.  Another time, we rented a 1BR suite at Grandview in Las Vegas, and it was incredibly spacious to us at that time.  (We've never stayed in anything anywhere near that small since we got into timeshares!)


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## Carolinian (Jun 4, 2011)

Ridewithme38 said:


> Can i just repeat that the OBX is no good i think my friend once went there and caught cooties and ask what any of the rambling posts about how evil RCI is has to do with the Original Topic??  All these long posts are making my eyes tired



My main point is that in the brave new world of Points Lite, it is impossible to talk about points lite (aka TPUs) in the abstract.  You need to specify if you are talking about points lite required to make an exchange or points lite awarded for a deposit.  They are often two very different things for the very same week.

As to the way RCI treats lockoffs, I concur that it makes perfect sense that from their narrow parochial interests, owners of lockoffs love the arrangement and will fight to the death to defend it.  They are getting a huge windfall, so why wouldn't they?  I also concur that from the narrow parochial interests of RCI, they also love the new arrangement they have created because it gives them more fees.  But if one looks at it from the standpoint of what will honestly and fairly balance supply of deposits and demand for exchanges in an honestly and objectively run exchange system then it makes no sense at all as it tends to discourage deposits in the configurations that have the most demand most places, and leaves those who do deposit in those configurations shortchanged.  It also leaves those with regular 2BR's in rare hard to trade into areas finding themselves on an equal footing with owners of lockouts in areas with a glut of oversupply, so they too are shortchanged.  Eventually those who are being shortchanged are going to figure out they are being hosed and take their marbles elsewhere.


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## MichaelColey (Jun 4, 2011)

Carolinian said:


> I can see why those fortunate few who have the windfall of being overpointed fiercely defend the system.


It's not a "fortunate few", but an overwhelming majority of people who get more trading power from their deposit than they would take to exchange back into the same unit.  You have to dig pretty hard to find counterexamples like Manhattan Club.

Others in this and other threads have offered what appears to be the most likely reason that RCI gives people more trading power - because they make their profit from exchange fees.  If they give people more trading power and change back, they'll exchange more.

You liked the trading bands that used to exist.  This "overpointing" is basically the same thing, except structured to encourage multiple exchanges.  We're still able to "trade up", except now that trading up might take the form of "trading down" for two lesser units.


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## vckempson (Jun 4, 2011)

TPU deposit values are indeed calculated differently than trade values.  Deposit values, as stated by RCI are based on

1.  Utililization
2.  Supply 
3.  Demand


Some (one) here find utilization to be an "Orwelian" term.  Some (one) here find the addition of utilization as something that turns supply and demand on it's head.  Some (one) here, suggest we're all defending the indefensible.  

The fact is,  RCI appears to have codified into an objective formula a system for overpointing.  Forget the back room deals;  they don't need them any more.  The formula takes care of the back room deals for them.   They figured out how to do something that was previously subjective (and maybe shady), and bring it out into the open under an established, numbers crunching formula.  The calculation input that does this is "utilization"; "how many units like yours that get exchanged".  This input is indeed worth something to RCI's bottom line and they reward it.  That's pretty simple and straight forward. 

To sit here and complain about it is like complaing about the tax system.  For some, it sucks, but it is what it is.  You can either figure out how to take advantage of it, or you can let IT take advantage of you.  Unlike the tax system, though, it's not a zero sum game.  If one get more points because of utilization, they aren't taken from someone else.  RCI still has 30% of it's weeks going unused by the use date.  To complain about some getting overpointed reminds me a bit of the "Prodigal Son" parable in the bible.

Anyway, most of us here want to work the system to our benefit.  Most of us here are also sick and tired of constant counterproductive diatribes about how unfair and warped the system is.  Most of us here are NOT defending the system but working to understand it and get more and better vacations, period.  We don't work for RCI or for VV@P and aren't devoted cheerleaders or defenders of either.  We just face reality and make the best of it we can.  

The fact is, TPU's are now the trading currency used for exchanges.  Just like dollar bills we all want more of it and want to stretch it as far as we can.  To constantly bash RCI's new system doesn't help any of us to do either.  BTW, if we were talking about dollars instead of TPU's, would one against all here be talking about the exchange rate of the dollar and how unfair it is? Probably not.  

There's also something quite disengenuous and lacking of character about those who constanstly berate a system that they themselves then take advanage of to their own benefit but to the detriment of those they purport to protect and defend.  It's hard to fathom the mindset of those that rent weeks from RCI while indicating that RCI's use of the best weeks for rentals is the most agregeous offense that undermines the entire system we depend on.  In spite of open disdain for RCI's use of the rental pool,  they make use of it and advocate using it.   By renting, though, they provide RCI the greatest profit per unit on their books.  By renting, they also hurt it's members the most (us) by perpetuating the success of the rental program that takes those weeks away from exchangers.  It's hard to tell which is worse, RCI's rental program, or those who openly criticize it but use it anyway.  Those who position themselves along the high road should at least align their actions with their beliefs if they wish to be credible.


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## chriskre (Jun 4, 2011)

:deadhorse: 

Here we go again.


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## Carolinian (Jun 4, 2011)

Finding most of those underpointed weeks is going to be impossible to do.  It is the rare weeks where RCI shortchanges people on trading power.  The rarest of those, the most prized exchanges never appear online as they get snapped up by ongoing searches before they make it online.  However, all the dime-a-dozen inventory does end up online.  The other thing that is significant about RCI's shell game on trading power numbers is that it is totally non-transparent when it comes to an ongoing search.  You are totally at their mercy and they could charge any number of points lite that they feel like charging.  We all know that the best weeks are usually snagged by ongoing searches, not found sitting online.

JLB found a fair number of those examples and posted them on another site and not by doing a lot of digging, but just by doing his usual searches in the area he regularly searches.

The trading bands back in the real Weeks system were not so much trading up as they were a recognition of the reality that it is simply impossible to get exact numbers exactly right and thus to do like for like trades it has to be within a band or range.  Those bands were never anywhere close to being as broad as the situation that Bill posted about on another thread where his week which was really worth 9 points lite since that is what RCI required to trade into it but was gifted 32 points lite by RCI as a deposit.  Or the VV@P week reported some months ago by another Tugger (and I know that since the spotlight was put on it on TUG, RCI has altered the numbers to at least make them somewhat closer) where RCI was asking 10 points lite to trade in but gifted a depositor an undeserved 50 points lite for a deposit.

The fees issue is, I am sure, a big part of the equation on why RCI gifts the extra trading power to lock-out owners such as yourself, but the discussion on another thread identified the real reason for RCI's differing numbers on deposits versus the number for gettng an exchange on the same week, and that is to try to construct a defense to a future lawsuit over their rentals of exchange deposits to the general public.  There are a number of other things in the Points Lite changes that are also clearly lawsuit defense related.




MichaelColey said:


> It's not a "fortunate few", but an overwhelming majority of people who get more trading power from their deposit than they would take to exchange back into the same unit.  You have to dig pretty hard to find counterexamples like Manhattan Club.
> 
> Others in this and other threads have offered what appears to be the most likely reason that RCI gives people more trading power - because they make their profit from exchange fees.  If they give people more trading power and change back, they'll exchange more.
> 
> You liked the trading bands that used to exist.  This "overpointing" is basically the same thing, except structured to encourage multiple exchanges.  We're still able to "trade up", except now that trading up might take the form of "trading down" for two lesser units.


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## Carolinian (Jun 5, 2011)

tomandrobin said:


> Nice post putting TPU's into perspective.



But it does NOT tell you how many of those are inflated values and how many are are the underpointed ones where RCI has shortchanged the member.

It is also a very poor attempt at a cross section for another reason.  It does NOT include the weeks that get taken by an ongoing search.  Any experienced timesharer knows that this is where you get the best weeks, and it is only the leftovers that are left sitting online.  By only looking at what is online, but get a very skewed view that is not going to include most of the best weeks.

Another aspect of this that distorts the attempt at analysis is that is says absolutely nothing about how many points lite were awarded for those deposits, which we know from experience can be a VERY different number from what RCI is charging for them in points lite.


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## Carolinian (Jun 5, 2011)

Bad analogy on the tax system.  You cannot escape that, but you can escape Points Lite.  It is simply finding a different use for your timeshare whether it is using it yourself, renting it, or giving it to a more honest exchange company.

''Utilization'' is not itself an Orwellian term but your distortion of it is, and it is at odds with Madge of RCI's usage of it on the old Ask RCI forum.

What RCI's numbers shell game really is was discussed on another thread.  It is an attempt to set up a defense for the next lawsuit over their rentals to the general public.  It is one of several defensive moves on the legal front that are cranked into Points Lite.  The judge considering whether to recognize the ''settlement'' himself pointed out that the time limited nature of the only fragment of substantive relief in the ''settlement'' almost begged another lawsuit after that expired.

People like you getting the windfall of more points lite than your week is worth do indeed get sick and tired of anyone who tries to rattle the cage over the fact that such a system is cheating others.  You simply want to enjoy your institutionalized trading up.




vckempson said:


> TPU deposit values are indeed calculated differently than trade values.  Deposit values, as stated by RCI are based on
> 
> 1.  Utililization
> 2.  Supply
> ...


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## vckempson (Jun 5, 2011)

Carolinian said:


> People like you getting the windfall of more points lite than your week is worth do indeed get sick and tired of anyone who tries to rattle the cage over the fact that such a system is cheating others.  You simply want to enjoy your institutionalized trading up.



I didn't get a windfall.  I ended up with the short end of the stick.  I had the 3 South African weeks, my only TS's,  that went to hell in a hand basket.  The one thing I didn't do, NOT EVER, was to pull the old "woe is me crap".  What's the point in complaining.  What I did do was figure out out the new system worked, where the inefficiencies were, and capitalized on them.  That's what most of us here have done or would like to do.  These truly are "The golden days of opportunity for RCI weeks" if you're willing to do something other than complain.


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## Carolinian (Jun 5, 2011)

The problem is that RCI moves the goalposts frequently and buying based on where they are at any point in time is building on quicksand.  Their antics hae removed the former relative stability of the exchange system.

As far as what I own, I follow a number of rules that many here do:
1) always own where you would like to vacation.  That rules out Orlando, and indeed all the overbuilt areas, which are where most of the overpointed weeks are. Even at MB, which I do like (it IS a beach after all), the overpointed weeks tend to be the drive to the beach resorts and I never want to vacation at a beach I have to drive to.
2) own at an owner controlled resort.  Because of the dynamics of what RCI is doing to try to cover its rental operation, most of the overpointed resorts tend to be developer controlled.  I have zero interest in owning at a developer controlled resort.

You also ignore the best ways to deal with RCI's antics:
1) use your week
2) rent your week
3) use a different exchange company
Those are the best proactive responses, and I know you don't like for people to point those out.




vckempson said:


> I didn't get a windfall.  I ended up with the short end of the stick.  I had the 3 South African weeks, my only TS's,  that went to hell in a hand basket.  The one thing I didn't do, NOT EVER, was to pull the old "woe is me crap".  What's the point in complaining.  What I did do was figure out out the new system worked, where the inefficiencies were, and capitalized on them.  That's what most of us here have done or would like to do.  These truly are "The golden days of opportunity for RCI weeks" if you're willing to do something other than complain.


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## sandkastle4966 (Jun 5, 2011)

Ridewithme38 said:


> I just bought a TS that seems to give me between 37-50TPU's if i deposit both sides of my lock off...13-25 if just one side...and because of my limited knowledge about RCI...my assumption was that 25TPU's was about an average number....I was VERY excited to hear that that wasn't true...that average was closer to 10-15TPU..it gives me hope that i could get two average weeks for one side of my lock-off
> 
> So...Now i was wondering....if 10-15TPU is around average....Whats the HIGHEST you've ever seen for a single room(one side of a lockoff or an entire TS) for a week?....i've heard of Manhattan club getting around 60 TPU...But could that really be the highest?



Just want to point out - this thread is supposed to be about how we are leveraging TPUs. 

The thread has been high jacked into a bash rci/defend RCI.


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## chriskre (Jun 5, 2011)

sandkastle4966 said:


> Just want to point out - this thread is supposed to be about how we are leveraging TPUs.
> 
> The thread has been high jacked into a bash rci/defend RCI.



Yeah it's supposed to be, but for the RCI TPU/Points Lite haters or whatever you wanna call it,  there is never an opportunity lost to beat the dead horse just one more time.   


I say, forget TPU's and stick to the mini's.


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## vckempson (Jun 5, 2011)

Carolinian said:


> You also ignore the best ways to deal with RCI's antics:
> 1) use your week
> 2) rent your week
> 3) use a different exchange company
> Those are the best proactive responses, and I know you don't like for people to point those out.



My two TS are in places I've vacationed more than any other spots.  They aren't necessarily my dream locations, but in reality, we visit them more than any other.  I'm not interested in the aggravation of renting.  And I'll use other exchange companies when they start offering 2 or 3 weeks travel for each deposit, just like I get with RCI.  

Your golden rules, however, are not my golden rules.   It cost me $1 to reposition my entire portfolio of RCI holdlings, and my goal is "leverage", "leverage", "leverage".  

I'm not alone now in wanting to leverage 1 week into several.  My 2 TS weeks will now get me 4 to 6 weeks of vacation for less than what I used to pay 3 weeks of South African MF's (about $1,000 a year).  With over 100 TPU's a year to spend from 2 TS's, I'm in TPU heaven.  How would you ever accomplish that with your methodology?  You couldn't!   After reconsidering your advice... I think I'll stick with exactly what I've got right now, thank you.  

The op's question is indicative of people looking to do exactly what I've done.    Leveraging the use of TPU's is a far more effective strategy, financially, than any other alternative right now.    Most of us here will figure out what works best for ourselves, without ANY input from you.


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## vacationhopeful (Jun 5, 2011)

My favorite resort is whining that I have NOT been staying there this year. I was there for 1 night in February after my week 52 stay. It is June now and my next stay there is Thanksgiving Week 47. 

Truth is I have become a TPU freak depositing my split lockoffs and booking elsewhere. RCI is getting lots of $179 exchange fees from me. My next vacation is the Hyatt in downtown Chicago.  And I have 5 more TPU exchanges booked in the coming months.


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## rickandcindy23 (Jun 5, 2011)

People get a little too personal in these threads, and Carolinian doesn't really get personal.  His posts never offend me, but they seem to offend people who want to defend RCI.  I don't defend RCI, but I am constantly adjusting to get to the high trading power I want for my exchanges.  I don't think we should have to do that.  I don't have to do it with II.  

As for the OP, I already sent him an email with my suggestion of a timeshare that would be high TPU's.  So if he's wondering to get the best bang for the buck, I shared my knowledge.


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## Ridewithme38 (Jun 5, 2011)

rickandcindy23 said:


> People get a little too personal in these threads, and Carolinian doesn't really get personal.  His posts never offend me, but they seem to offend people who want to defend RCI.  I don't defend RCI, but I am constantly adjusting to get to the high trading power I want for my exchanges.  I don't think we should have to do that.  I don't have to do it with II.
> 
> As for the OP, I already sent him an email with my suggestion of a timeshare that would be high TPU's.  So if he's wondering to get the best bang for the buck, I shared my knowledge.



RickANDCindy are awesome!  just sayin...


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## tombo (Jun 5, 2011)

rickandcindy23 said:


> People get a little too personal in these threads, and Carolinian doesn't really get personal.  His posts never offend me, but they seem to offend people who want to defend RCI.  I don't defend RCI, but I am constantly adjusting to get to the high trading power I want for my exchanges.  I don't think we should have to do that.  I don't have to do it with II.
> 
> As for the OP, I already sent him an email with my suggestion of a timeshare that would be high TPU's.  So if he's wondering to get the best bang for the buck, I shared my knowledge.



At times Carolinian  gets plenty personal. If you point out anything good about RCI you are often called ignorant about supply and demand. In one post he told me that I was uneducated and needed to enroll in a community college and take a basic econ course because I didn't understand supply and demand. I could point out many other examples but it just isn't worth it.

Carolinian also accuses you of being an RCI defender if you point out the good things. I am not a defender, I simply like the new system MUCH BETTER than the old system. I also like my Ford truck. I will tell anyone that is looking for a new truck that I have enjoyed mine for years, that I have gotten reliable transportation from it for several years, and that I will probably buy a Ford next time. Am I a Ford defender? Nope. If someone posts that they drive a Chevy and I say that I used to have a Chevy but I like my Ford much better does that make me a Chevy hater or a Ford shill? Nope! Why should I be called an RCI defender simply because I like the new exchange program? I shouldn't!

On this forum if you simply like the new RCI weeks program and post positivelly about YOUR EXCHANGES  and the changes YOU PERSONALLY LIKE, then Carolinian labels you an RCI defender. Because Carolinian hates everything about RCI (and Delta), anyone who likes RCI must be cheating the system, own  week(s) that are overpointed, not understand that Orlando is overbuilt, not understand that the OBX has the highest demand in the world, must be  ignorant about supply and demand, just plain stupid, or simply a blind supporter who loves RCI no matter how crooked they are. Give me a break. If a better exchange program came out tomorrow I would have no problem leaving RCI. To me at this point and time second best exchange company is not even close to RCI for the majority of the WEEKS I OWN AND DEPOSIT and is not even close for THE EXCHANGES I AM SEEING AND GETTING. That is not an RCI defense, that is the facts from my exchanging experience.

I like the new program. Almost all of the TUGGERS but Caroinian like the new weeks  program much better than the old program. Is everyone on TUG enjoying the new weeks program an RCI defender,stupid, or do we simply see the new system as much improved and post about our experiences and inform others about successes? I choose the latter as the more plausible.

Not one thread about RCI weeks exists that Carolinian does not post his negative BS. If the thread asks what great trades have you made with RCI, Carolinian who has never made a trade under the new system has to post about how the old system had better trades. If someone asks about ways to make better trades or deposits under the new system Carolinian explains that weeks get too many points for areas that are overbuilt. What is more helpful to TUGGERS? Someone detailing what they have done with their deposits and exchanges successfully, or someone telling those posting about successes that they are ill gotten exchanges? One is informative and edcucational about how to work the system. The other is like trying to herd cats. No matter what Carolinian says or does the TPU's given and TPU's charged by RCI will not change. Use the facts given by those working the system to better use it yourself or QUIT RCI. 

Cindy you are one that has been of TREMENDOUS HELP TO ME. You have PM'd me things about the new program and what to buy that I am seriously looking at buying to maximize my benefits under the new weeks program. You have posted MANY sightings that I have considered, and one that I confirmed.   You have worked the system and gotten great exchanges. In fact you too are doing much better using the new system than you did under the old.  I have benefitted greatly from your advice and input, and the advice and input of others. With regards to the new RCI system Carolinian has not made one post that I have read that is helpfull in any way

Cindy you are not an RCI defender, you are a mostly happy RCI customer. You, me, and nobody else on TUG should have to defend themselves from being called an RCI defender, RCI apologist, shill, plant, etc, etc, etc by Carolinian whenever we post a positive about RCI. If you ignore it Carolinian wins by making his point to any who read his posts. You defend yourself or refute his misinformation and Carolinian gets to debate. He loves to debate. He wins either way.

I have quit arguing with Carolinian because he will never acknowledge ANYTHING positive about the new program no matter what successful exchanges TUGGERS actually get. It is a waste of time to try and show him the good things about the new program. I will never learn anything beneficial to my use of RCI as an exchange companyfrom Carolinian since Carolinian HAS NO EXPERIENCE BECAUSE HE HAS NOT AND NEVER WILL EXCHANGE WITH RCI USING THE NEW PROGRAM! Carolinian does post about the joys of renting weeks using RCI, but everyone already knows how to do that, so no revelations there. I am going to keep learning from those who actually deposit and exchange with RCI and I am putting Carolinian on ignore.


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## 6scoops (Jun 5, 2011)

Ridewithme38 said:


> I REALLY want Disney Animal Kingdom Week 52 2+br Savannah view....I know this is one of those impossible things to get...but that will eventually be my dream vacation once i'm able to find it...i figure my daughter is 5 now...and my brothers wife just got pregnant...i'd love to go with a big crowd...so maybe 3br+(Which makes it an even harder find!)
> 
> So i'm hoping to find it for 2015-2018!  I'm totally starting my planning soon =)



Funny, your like me.  I always want the impossible.  And to give you some hope, I also have a new RCI account.  I just made a great trade for 32 TPU, Animal Kingdom Savanna View, week 52 in a 1bdr.  The 2bdr would of been better, but still.  This reservation would cost  $6,500 to rent from Disney direct, or 344 point for me as a DVC member.  SCORE!!  I'm very happy with RCI.


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## Ridewithme38 (Jun 5, 2011)

6scoops said:


> Funny, your like me.  I always want the impossible.  And to give you some hope, I also have a new RCI account.  I just made a great trade for 32 TPU, Animal Kingdom Savanna View, week 52 in a 1bdr.  The 2bdr would of been better, but still.  This reservation would cost  $6,500 to rent from Disney direct, or 344 point for me as a DVC member.  SCORE!!  I'm very happy with RCI.



wow! Thats awesome...i can get away with a 1br if i just make it a daddy/daughter trip...and that may work if i frame it as a christmas gift....Woot! Good to hear the bar is around 32 TPU for that!


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## ondeadlin (Jun 5, 2011)

chriskre said:


> :deadhorse:
> 
> Here we go again.



Exactly. Does every RCI trading topic have to descend into this same fight between the same sides?

Yes, I realize it's one person with a strong opinion responsible for most of it, but it takes two to tango. Don't feed the troll is a tried and true BBS commandment that some would do well to remember.


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## glypnirsgirl (Jun 5, 2011)

The problem with just letting it go is that the Newbie or casual participant may not realize that there are two sides to the story.

elaine


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## e.bram (Jun 5, 2011)

The posters that criticize Carolinian are doing so for their enlightened self interest. The focus of his posts it to encourage the owners of small but desirable TSes to NOT deposit with RCI. This means those owners of overbuilt over pointed TSes will not be able to trade into these TSes not matter how many RCI points they have accumulated using their overpointed units and combining their low pointed dogs. 
I agree with Carolinian and will not deposit with RCI using II(search first) and private like for like exchange entities.


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## 6scoops (Jun 5, 2011)

*tpu power*



Ridewithme38 said:


> wow! Thats awesome...i can get away with a 1br if i just make it a daddy/daughter trip...and that may work if i frame it as a christmas gift....Woot! Good to hear the bar is around 32 TPU for that!



Plus, I didn't even have a request in for that time period, not that it would of mattered I only had the account a few weeks before I found this.  I believe there were also some 2 bedrooms at Saratoga and Old Key West for week 52, I don't know what the TPU was, I think it was 32tpu as well.  I could not see them, but I read about them from the sightings board.  So good luck, I'm sure you'll get your dream vaca, with RCI.


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## rickandcindy23 (Jun 5, 2011)

Tombo, I hadn't seen any personal attacks from Carolinian, but I do believe you.  I don't read the entire length of Carolinian's posts, because he does tend to say the same thing. 

e.bram gets way too personal too.  

Why did I write that comment? One poster in this thread really got personal toward Carolinian, and I clicked on that little yield sign thing, so the moderators would see the post.  I thought it was beyond TUG politeness, and that is why I made my comment.  

Carolinian does have the right to his opinion, and I did check the RCI calculator and noted that the Manhattan Club depositors get lousy TPU, while the exchangers pay huge TPU's to get them.  That is not right!  I think it's a blatant example of RCI's system being out of whack. He has evidence to back his theory, which is the system is unfair to some and generous to others.  

I am glad to say, RCI is generous with me, and I am very happy.


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## MichaelColey (Jun 5, 2011)

Carolinian said:


> The problem is that RCI moves the goalposts frequently and buying based on where they are at any point in time is building on quicksand.


I'm fairly new at this. I bought my first timeshare a year ago. I've bought six more since then. I've made 19 deposits, have done more than a dozen exchange stays, have done about half a dozen rentals, and have another dozen exchanges booked.

I did most of my purchases before the 11/15/10 changes, and the ones I've done since then have just been increasing my number of units where I already own. The changes have only affected me positively.

I attribute that to my selection criteria:

1) Prefer timeshares were you wouldn't mind staying.
2) Prefer timeshares that are dual-affiliated and not in RCI Points, to get the most flexibility when things change.
3) Prefer lockoffs or other arrangements where you can get multiple units for a single maintenance fee.
4) Focus on value rather than the cheapest maintenance fee or the most points. A low MF with low trading power or a high trading power with a high MF is still just average (at best). I'd rather aim for those with an above average TP and a below average MF.
5) Focus on the best possible weeks. Your MF is probably the same whether you have a Red week or a Blue week, so you might as well pay a little more upfront and get the Red week.
6) Don't spend much upfront. Things change. If you spend $20k and things change, you could be out a lot. If you spend $500 and things change, you haven't really lost much.

RCI has had one major change (11/15/10) and several minor ones, and it's only made things better for me. Will that always continue to be the case? That's doubtful. But I've set myself up so that I have a lot of flexibility when things do change.  I can deposit most of my weeks into either RCI Weeks or II.  I can PFD some into RCI Points.  I can deposit into smaller exchanges.  I can rent them out.  I can sell them or give them away.  I can use them  (all but one are places we regularly go).  RCI Weeks is my best option right now, but it's not my only option.

The goalposts are going to move. That's just life.


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## Mel (Jun 5, 2011)

Ridewithme38 said:


> I just bought a TS that seems to give me between 37-50TPU's if i deposit both sides of my lock off...13-25 if just one side...and because of my limited knowledge about RCI...my assumption was that 25TPU's was about an average number....I was VERY excited to hear that that wasn't true...that average was closer to 10-15TPU..it gives me hope that i could get two average weeks for one side of my lock-off
> 
> So...Now i was wondering....if 10-15TPU is around average....Whats the HIGHEST you've ever seen for a single room(one side of a lockoff or an entire TS) for a week?....i've heard of Manhattan club getting around 60 TPU...But could that really be the highest?



A note to Redwithme - I'm not so sure the average is 10-15.  While we don't see that many weeks in the upper half of the range when we search online, that average is skewed by the fact that many of the higher valued weeks are taken by ongoing searches.  Since the TPU values are driven by demand, it makes sense that the weeks that make it through the ongoing searches are those that do not fulfull any ongoing searches, and are thus are generally of lower demand than those we never see.  There will be the occasional high-valued week available online, due to other factors (like an area where demand peaks closer to the use date, due to things like airfares).  

Now for some of the other arguments:



muranojo said:


> RCI does offer the combine-for-a-fee option for all owners, not just those who have lockouts.  It's also available to those who have multiple deposits, or leftover TPUs from other exchanges, etc.
> 
> Of course, I can see why they do this for lockouts:  Two deposits vs. one = two exchange fees.
> 
> ...


In most points systems, the value of the two sides combined is the same as the value of them split.  If you think about it, under the new system RCI doesn't need members to actively deposit as two units, since they know the unit is a lock-off.  Once they have the unit in their inventory, they could easily split it themselves.  When we deposit, we give RCI the right to use our week as they see fit.



Carolinian said:


> They give substantially more points lite to dividing and then recombining a lockoff and payment of the fee, an opportunity that is simply not offered to owners of a standard 2BR. A standard 2BR owner cannot split his week, pay a fee, recombine it, and get substantially more points lite by doing that.  And in family vacation destinations, like Orlando, this would tend to lead to an oversupply of smaller units and could eventually lead to a shortage of larger units.  This would make it even more out of step with supply and demand.
> 
> It is not just Orlando, where 2BR's are much more in demand than 1BR's.  That is also true at the OBX, and I suspect anywhere families tend to vacation.  It may not be the case in less family-oriented destinations as, say, Las Vegas.  RCI's numbers, then, for any family-oriented destination encourage people to deposit in a form, smaller units, that is opposite where the higher demand is.  They are standing supply and demand on its head to try to get more money for themselves, one combining fees, and two rental or exchange fees.


This is one area where I agree with you 100%.  In a family destination, a larger unit should we more valuable than 2 smaller units - particularly if RCI has the option to split the unit to fulfill 2 requests when needed (and I don't see why they wouldn't have that option).

If they have 2 deposits on hand - one of each half of a lock-off unit, that doesn't guarantee they can be combined back together, so those individual deposits are of less value.


> But the lockouts is the smaller part of the problem.  The bigger problem is overpointing certain areas or resorts allowing built-in trades up for those areas or resorts.  One of the defenders of Points Lite on these boards who owns in an overbuilt area has commented that he has a week which RCI takes 9 points lite to exchange in, but awards him 32 points for his deposit.  Well, it is clear that the market is saying the week is really worth 9 points, and what RCI is doing is letting him trade up substantially.  If his week is worth 9 points lite, he ought to get 9 points lite for his deposit, not 32.  People like that fiercely defend the new system, as one would expect.  They have gotten a windfall and don't want to lose it.  People like me who rattle that cage represent a potential threat to their windfall.


While I disagree with you about the issue of "overbuilt" areas, I do agree that a disparity like that is highly suspect, and I wish I know the reason.  But I can also think of some reasoning dating back to the days when we purchased our first unit.  RCI doesn't give developers a sweetheart deal without getting something in return, and I would love to know what that is.  Is that unit really worth 16 on deposit (which would be more in line with what everyone else gets for a units that costs 9 TPU), and maybe the developer is matching it with an equivalent deposit of their own?  Is that any different than the "bonus weeks" resorts used to offer, other than giving credit as a single deposit?  RCI gets more inventory, and the developer gets to pretend their weeks are worth twice as much in the sales presentation... RCI values our weeks so much they give us extra points when you deposit...



tombo said:


> Your post and response is logical and spot on. Of course RCI gets more income from exchange fees on 2 separate lockoffs than they do from one exchange. I would make it attractive for a depositer to split their weeks too if I was RCI in order to get 2 exchange fees. And yes many owners can get more money by splitting their lock-off and renting 2 weeks to 2 different families than they could renting the whole unit to one family.
> 
> 
> RCI combining for a fee is available to all, not just those who own lock-offs. Once again you are correct and Carolinian is wrong. Carolinian wants to condemn RCI no matter what the facts are and no matter how well the new program is working for the VAST MAJORITY of TUGGERS.


While I often disagree with Steve, he is spot on with this one - and it's an argument I made before as well.  Yes, the combining fee is available to all, but the extra points are not.  If split weeks are more valuable to RCI, then why did they design the points system without this disparity.

I think this is leftover from the way hidden TPU were assigned under the old system.  Under that system, RCI traded everything one-for-one, and for inventory management purposes it made a difference which way you deposited.  But they don't need to honor that anymore under the new system.  I wouldn't be surprised if over time RCI realizes they don't have to offer more points to split the units, because they can just do it themselves.  The only real advantage is they get the $99 extra fee.


MichaelColey said:


> Owners of lockoffs have the advantage OUTSIDE OF RCI as well. You can split and rent one side out, sometimes for enough to cover your maintenance fee. Or you can split and rent both sides out, making quite a bit more than renting it as a whole. Or you can split it and deposit each side separately into one of the smaller exchanges (or II if your resort is affiliated) and get two weeks. Or you can split and stay two separate weeks in a smaller unit. Owners of a non-lockoff 2BR unit don't have those options.
> 
> This was a large part of my decision to heavily favor lockoffs, and I bought almost all of my timeshares BEFORE 11/15/10, when RCI made trading powers transparent. That transparency only reinforced what I already knew (and made me realize that lockoffs were even better than I thought).
> 
> You can rant and rave about how unfair it is that some people can have an advantage from lockoffs, but you're just spitting in the wind. There are reasons that lockoffs are worth more, whether you like it or not.


Outside RCI, yes.  But there is no reason RCI should offer extra points.  Within RCI and full deposit offers RCI more flexibility, not less.


Carolinian said:


> And those with the rare weeks should realize that they are getting hosed and should not play RCI's rigged game.  They should use alternatives, using their weeks at their resorts, renting their weeks, or using other exchange companies.  Let the people who own in overbuilt areas all exchange among each other with their inflated points lite numbers, and let those with the hard to get weeks move on with their weeks where they will be treated fairly.
> 
> If you don't know why people want to go to the OBX, I suggest you look at a map.  There is a thing called a beach which inland Orlando just doesn't have.  I lived in Florida for a year and like going there, but except for obligatory trips for young family members to see the mouse on very rare occaisions, I would bypass Orlando entirely.  If I am going to Florida for a vacation, it will be within walking distance of a beach.  Now if you want to compare people who vacation at the beach with those who do so by visiting a mouse, then the mouse is going to come on very much on the short end of the stick.
> 
> Overbuilt, BTW, means they have more supply than demand.  Yes, a lot of people go there, but there is more supply in timeshares relative to the timeshare demand.  It is the relation between those two that matter, not the absolute numbers of either one.


Our definitions don't differ as much as you might think.  While Orlando doesn't have peak demand year round, the demand at Orlando's peak times does in fact outstrip the supply.  The real difference is that people who can't snag a peak week in Orlando can often be satisfied with an off-peak week.  The same is often not true of beach resorts and ski resorts.  


MichaelColey said:


> It's not a "fortunate few", but an overwhelming majority of people who get more trading power from their deposit than they would take to exchange back into the same unit.  You have to dig pretty hard to find counterexamples like Manhattan Club.
> 
> Others in this and other threads have offered what appears to be the most likely reason that RCI gives people more trading power - because they make their profit from exchange fees.  If they give people more trading power and change back, they'll exchange more.
> 
> You liked the trading bands that used to exist.  This "overpointing" is basically the same thing, except structured to encourage multiple exchanges.  We're still able to "trade up", except now that trading up might take the form of "trading down" for two lesser units.


It's not even a question of trading down.  If RCI offers 27 points for my deposit, and requests 22 to exchange in, then anyone who gets 22 points for their deposit can exchange in one-for-one.  I can exchange for something that RCI might have offered 32 for deposit.  That sound an awful lot like the bands that used to exist.

Carolinian is correct in pointing out that there are a few places where RCI handles things differently, but I'm not sure that represents a change.  Perhaps owners of some of those weeks can comment - how well did they trade in the past?  Did they have trouble trading back into their own resorts in the past?  Did they assume it was because someone else had already requested their week, and it just never made it into inventory?  Perhaps RCI has inadvertantly exposed what they have done all along.  We always assumed those weeks were not in the system, but maybe they were, and nobody had the trade power to "see" them.

It's still not "fair" but I don't think it's a change.  I think the new system simply exposed what RCI was doing all along.


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## tombo (Jun 5, 2011)

rickandcindy23 said:


> I did check the RCI calculator and noted that the Manhattan Club depositors get lousy TPU, while the exchangers pay huge TPU's to get them.  That is not right!  I think it's a blatant example of RCI's system being out of whack. He has evidence to back his theory, which is the system is unfair to some and generous to others.
> 
> I am glad to say, RCI is generous with me, and I am very happy.



I agree that the Manhattan Club owners get less for depositing than it costs to exchange for the same weeks, but that is just about the ONLY example like that that ayone has found. 

I really feel like most of the Manhattan Club and DVC deposits are unsold inventory/developer owned weeks that the MC and DVC bulk deposits with RCI. If I owned at either resort I would not deposit with RCI or anyone else, I would own to use or rent to others. The MF's are too high at these resorts to justify using them for exchanging IMO.

There are too many consecutive weeks MC deposited at one feld swoop. For months not one single new Manhattan Club week will show up, then in one day 2 or 3 months worth of inventory covering every week will appear. In the last deposit you pointed out EVERY SINGLE week from May To July (including 4th of July weeks) in both one bed rooms studios became available to exchange for. There would be gaps in certain weeks if it was owners depositing. Plus owners don't get together and deposit all on the same day. I doubt that enough owners deposit to cover every single week of every month. 

As the anti-RCI poster is always saying, perhaps RCI has a deal with the Manhattan Club. Perhaps they need to charge more to get those bulk deposits from MC.  We will never know for sure.

Even if that is not the case and RCI is ripping off MC owners by charging more to exchange for their weeks than they give for the deposits, it is not a reason for anyone other than Manhattan Club owners to not exchange with RCI. There are 1000's of RCI resorts and the vast majority get more TPU's or the exact same amount of TPU's when they deposit as RCI charges to exchange for the week. Why throw the baby out with the bath water?

 To call the whole system bad because of one resort out of 1000's makes no sense. I would love to see what (if any) resorts besides Manhattan Club get less for deposits than RCI charges for exchanges. I bet that is a very small list as I know of no other resort that applies to other than the Manhattan Club. I know for sure that I don't get shortchanged on any of my weeks I deposit with RCI.


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## Lisa P (Jun 5, 2011)

Mel said:


> If you think about it, under the new system RCI doesn't need members to actively deposit as two units, since they know the unit is a lock-off.  Once they have the unit in their inventory, they could easily split it themselves.  When we deposit, we give RCI the right to use our week as they see fit. ...
> <snip>
> ...under the old system.  Under that system, RCI traded everything one-for-one, and for inventory management purposes it made a difference which way you deposited.  But they don't need to honor that anymore under the new system.  I wouldn't be surprised if over time RCI realizes they don't have to offer more points to split the units, because they can just do it themselves.


When the resorts have to check-in and -out two travel groups rather than one, they do slightly more work to manage locked-off units than combined units.  Is RCI really able to arbitrarily lock-off deposited, combined 2BR and 3BR lockoffs?  I've never heard of this.

When weeks are deposited in the RCI Points side, RCI has the right to divide a full week into nightly stays because of the agreement the resort has made with RCI Points.  When weeks are deposited in the RCI Weeks side, they still have the right to place people in them for full weeks by any means - exchangers vs. renters vs. bonus week recipients.

But I'm really not sure RCI is legally able to reconfigure a room's usage, as in booking separate parties into connecting sides of a lock-off that's been deposited as a single, larger unit.  I don't know enough about RCI Points but this looks especially iffy with RCI Weeks.  Anyone know for certain?


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## MuranoJo (Jun 5, 2011)

Lisa,

I had the same question after reading Mel's post.  I'd never heard of that before.

To me, we own the contract, we determine what configuration will be deposited, and I'd never heard of RCI having the right to go back to the resort and reconfigure what we deposited.

But, who knows?  RCI may have an agreement with the resort to split any lock-off 2 bds into 2 units.  As you mention, seems this may be more work for the resort.


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## e.bram (Jun 5, 2011)

Essentially you have leased your unit for the period(week) to RCI and they now have those same rights you had for that time period.


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## MichaelColey (Jun 5, 2011)

I don't think RCI can or would split deposited lockoffs without substantial work on their end and agreements with the resorts.  For one thing, they don't distinguish between lockoffs and non-lockoffs right now.  For another, some resorts charge a fee to split a lockoff.

It's a good theory and I agree that it could benefit RCI if they could split lockoffs, but I really don't see it happening anytime soon (if ever).


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## vckempson (Jun 6, 2011)

rickandcindy23 said:


> Tombo, I hadn't seen any personal attacks from Carolinian, but I do believe you.  I don't read the entire length of Carolinian's posts, because he does tend to say the same thing.
> 
> e.bram gets way too personal too.
> 
> Why did I write that comment? One poster in this thread really got personal toward Carolinian, and I clicked on that little yield sign thing, so the moderators would see the post.  I thought it was beyond TUG politeness, and that is why I made my comment.



Cindy, That would've been me, huh?  I've seen Carolinian dish out much worse to Tombo than my post.  As best I recollect it was a rather short post including.

1.  Calling him a "blowhard" who imparts no useful information.   (Def. of blowhard - "A person who talks too much or too loudly, especially in a boastful or self-important manner.")   Now best I can tell, blowhard is not a four letter word and describes him pretty well. 
2.  In response to him indicating it a was a fool's folly to chase the moving goalposts of RCI, I pointed out that he'd spent more on buying and selling timeshares than I ever had, and "where did it get him?"
3.  Suggested that maybe his constant complaints are driven by envy and jealousy of those who've managed to better themselves within RCI's new system.

And for that you rat me out to "nice" squad, and I get a reprimand to be more polite.  The daily back and forth between him and Tombo is 10 times worse.  Sheesh!


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## tombo (Jun 6, 2011)

vckempson said:


> And for that you rat me out to "nice" squad, and I get a reprimand to be more polite.  The daily back and forth between him and Tombo is 10 times worse.  Sheesh!



FYI. I quit interacting with Carolinian days ago and it is doubtful that I will interact with him again about RCI. Nothing I say positive about RCI will be acknowledged and we reached an impass long ago. In fact we have not responded to each other once on this entire thread.


I am ignoring Carolinian and I highly recommend it. He will get your goat eventually if you engage in the NEVER ENDING effort of trying to show ways that the RCI weeks program is a vastly improved program for most owners. Your TUG life will be more enjoyable if you put him on ignore, and you probably won't get any more "be nice" PM's.  

The forums are so much more fun when you simply discuss timesharing rather than trying to prove that RCI does work for you. I don't have to prove it. The simple fact is that the new weeks program works for me, for you, and for most TUGGERS. For most of us it works much better than the old weeks program. Why are those of us who are successfully exchanging with RCI and happy about the changes to the weeks program debating a person who NO MATTER WHAT WE SAY WILL NEVER EXCHANGE WITH RCI? Because he baits us into debates by posting that the weeks program is bad. I will not be baited anymore. When I am on my next exchange, and the next, and the next,and the next..... I do not need to prove it worked for me. I know it did.

By the way it is much better that he never deposits his weeks with RCI. By not exchanging he is leaving more weeks for us. All he would deposit is England and OBX, and I don't want to go to any of those places. He might exchange for a week I actually want by depositing weeks I have no use for. I hope he continues to hate RCI and deposit his weeks I would never exchange for with another exchange company. SFX and DAE are a perfect match for England and OBX weeks. We need to stop convincing him how good the new program is before he believes us and deposits those weeks MOST of us do not want.

I hope that any guests or new members will read the majority of TUG poster's positive comments and listen to them rather than the incessant negative posts by one or two people to make a decision on whether RCI is a good exchange program or not. If they simply listen to the vast majority of posters who are successfully exchanging using the new RCI weeks program, they will do fine.


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## glypnirsgirl (Jun 6, 2011)

I won't be discussing anything with him any more either. He can be insulting even when you agree with him. And it seems to be universal. 



> *rickandcindy23*I don't read the entire length of Carolinian's posts, because he does tend to say the same thing.


 That just says it all. The only thing new is picking on people for any analogies or similes that they make. 

I don't think that it is clever or interesting to read insults. It is a waste of time.


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## vckempson (Jun 6, 2011)

glypnirsgirl said:


> I won't be discussing anything with him any more either. He can be insulting even when you agree with him. And it seems to be universal.
> 
> That just says it all. The only thing new is picking on people for any analogies or similes that they make.
> 
> I don't think that it is clever or interesting to read insults. It is a waste of time.



Me three.  Back to "Ignore"!


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## rickandcindy23 (Jun 6, 2011)

> And for that you rat me out to "nice" squad, and I get a reprimand to be more polite. The daily back and forth between him and Tombo is 10 times worse. Sheesh!
> __________________


The mods rarely delete an entire post, but yours was over the top.  Don't let one person bother you so much that you set off red flags for those of us who know TUG rules.  I know more about Carolinian than you do, and he has been personally helpful to me.  

Carolinian needs to be less personal, I agree.  He can bash RCI all he wants, because it's his opinion, and he isn't changing anyone's mind.  I have been hot and cold with RCI over the last few years, since 5/30/2009.  I was able to see prime inventory and it suddenly stopped.  

I was mad at RCI and felt people here were a bit condescending at times toward my insistence of previous great trading power of both my Foxrun and Colorado summer weeks.  I was so offended, I almost quit TUG.  I learned to deal, bought other weeks that are supertraders, getting double the exchanges of before, and my trading power for Colorado summer is back to the same it was before 5/30/2009.  RCI had it wrong.  Big surprise to some people, who apparently think no one wants to go to the Colorado Rocky Mountains in the summer, but not to me.  RCI had it wrong, and they fixed it.  

What more can I ask of RCI?  I was stressed about it for months, and now I find myself thrilled with every deposit and exchange.


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## e.bram (Jun 6, 2011)

Tombo:
What TSes do you suspect Carolinian might snag, depriving you?

ps. Living in Prague is like living in a real Disneyland instead of an artificial contrived one.


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## tombo (Jun 6, 2011)

e.bram said:


> Tombo:
> What TSes do you suspect Carolinian might snag, depriving you?
> 
> ps. Living in Prague is like living in a real Disneyland instead of an artificial contrived one.



Putting you on ignore too. I feel better already!


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## DavidnJudy (Jun 6, 2011)

Do borrow a quote from Rodney King:

"Why can't we all just get along?"


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## Mel (Jun 6, 2011)

MichaelColey said:


> I don't think RCI can or would split deposited lockoffs without substantial work on their end and agreements with the resorts.  For one thing, they don't distinguish between lockoffs and non-lockoffs right now.  For another, some resorts charge a fee to split a lockoff.
> 
> It's a good theory and I agree that it could benefit RCI if they could split lockoffs, but I really don't see it happening anytime soon (if ever).


They do distinguish lockoffs - just look at the deposit calculator, and see how they list the units.  Just because they don't show the differences on their listings for exchange doesn't mean the information isn't available to them.  

Obviously, for some reason split usage is beneficial to RCI (most likely because they want the extra exchange fees).  But if they had no reason to offer an incentive to points members for split deposits, why do they offer such an incentive to weeks owner?  I suspect it is simply a holdover from the one-for-one exchange system.  If it is written into the points affiliation agreements that points deposits are treated as 2 deposits, why wouldn't they write that into the weeks affiliation agreements.  It's not like the resorts have that much room to argue.  Given that RCI wants to maximize the money it makes, I would not be surprised to see something similar written into the affiliation agreements going forward.  All deposits of lock-off units recognized as 2 units, allowing for an extra exchange fee every time, plus encouraging more combining fees as well.


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## MichaelColey (Jun 6, 2011)

Mel said:


> They do distinguish lockoffs - just look at the deposit calculator, and see how they list the units. Just because they don't show the differences on their listings for exchange doesn't mean the information isn't available to them.


For some resorts they might, but definitely not all.  Plus, I don't think it's in a consistent format that their computers can easily distinguish.  For instance, we will see and recognize that 703A, 703B and 703AB describes a lockout, but what about 202 and 204.  Are they lockoffs, or just adjacent units?  DVC unit numbers only identify the size and (sometimes) view.  You don't even know your room number until you check in.


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## MichaelColey (Jun 6, 2011)

Suggestion: Don't feed the trolls.  Totally ignore them, or only respond to the timeshare-related portions of their posts, but don't let them drag you down.


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## Mel (Jun 6, 2011)

MichaelColey said:


> For some resorts they might, but definitely not all.  Plus, I don't think it's in a consistent format that their computers can easily distinguish.  For instance, we will see and recognize that 703A, 703B and 703AB describes a lockout, but what about 202 and 204.  Are they lockoffs, or just adjacent units?  DVC unit numbers only identify the size and (sometimes) view.  You don't even know your room number until you check in.


RCI has a whole lot more information about the units than what they post in their descriptions, and it is only logical that the computer system can distinguish between lock-off units.  Otherwise, owners of lock-off units would always have to call to deposit their combined units.

DVC only identifies the size (and view) of your unit when you exchange, and the same is true of some other resorts.  However, they usually designate a difference between the two parts of the unit, though in a few cases both sides of a lock-off may be identical.  When a resort has several unit types that fall under the same RCI category, you might not be given your unit number on your confirmation because the resort reserves the right to assign you the lowest value within that category - hence resorts where exchangers are never placed in oceanfront units, or end up in the unit next to the trash compactor.  But on about 90% of our exchanges over the past 20 years, we have had a unit number listed on our confirmation, and have stayed in that unit.

If RCI's system can't distinguish between lock-off units then it is a matter of sloppy programming on their part.  There will always be small differences with certain resorts, but when talking about DVC you have to remember that DVC member don't make deposits on their own.  DVC chooses what to deposit, and RCI assigns those deposits as necessary.  The same also applies to some other resorts as well.

Time will tell as we see further adjustments to the system.  If RCI finds they are stuck with too many smaller units in some areas, we might see the TPU offered for those units drop, and we might see an increase for the larger units if demand outstrips the deposits.  RCI now has an obvious way to drive member behavior.


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## MichaelColey (Jun 6, 2011)

Mel said:


> RCI has a whole lot more information about the units than what they post in their descriptions, and it is only logical that the computer system can distinguish between lock-off units. Otherwise, owners of lock-off units would always have to call to deposit their combined units.


I respectfully disagree.  It might seem like a logical thing to do, but every indication we have from the outside is that they DON'T have that information.  Plus, many timeshares don't even give you the unit you reserved (as noted in their descriptions).


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## tombo (Jun 6, 2011)

MichaelColey said:


> Suggestion: Don't feed the trolls.  Totally ignore them, or only respond to the timeshare-related portions of their posts, but don't let them drag you down.



Using the ignore feature you aren't even tempted to feed the trolls because you don't even know what/if/when they post.  

I had one on ignore in the past and people pm'd me and talked me into removing the ignore saying that I was missing a lot. After I removed the ignore it didn't take long to remember why I clicked on ignore in the first place. What I was missing was a lot of angst, arguing, and name calling. I actually didn't miss it at all.

 I have ignored troll(s) and I have argued with troll(s). I must say the ignore is much better IMO.  I suggest you try it out too.


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## ampaholic (Jun 6, 2011)

MichaelColey said:


> Suggestion: Don't feed the trolls.  Totally ignore them, or only respond to the timeshare-related portions of their posts, but don't let them drag you down.


I agree: the ignore feature is great. We could even start a thread "who's the most ignored poster on TUG" :hysterical:


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## puppymommo (Jun 6, 2011)

glypnirsgirl said:


> I won't be discussing anything with him any more either. He can be insulting even when you agree with him. And it seems to be universal.
> 
> That just says it all. The only thing new is picking on people for any analogies or similes that they make.
> 
> I don't think that it is clever or interesting to read insults. It is a waste of time.



This whole discussion reminds me of the t-shirt DH is wearing today:
I'm not TRYING to be DIFFICULT, it just comes naturally.


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## bnoble (Jun 6, 2011)

> I really feel like most of the Manhattan Club and DVC deposits are unsold inventory/developer owned weeks that the MC and DVC bulk deposits with RCI. If I owned at either resort I would not deposit with RCI or anyone else, I would own to use or rent to others. The MF's are too high at these resorts to justify using them for exchanging IMO.


Possible for MC, but I don't think so for DVC.  Disney has a very active rental channel (WDW was hotels long before timeshares), and in the past any inventory managed by their rental arm was only offered as (very expensive) Extra Vacations.  The "tell" is the number you call to set things up---if you exchange, you call DVC Member Services (which manages the timeshare side's inventory).  If you rent, you call the Disney Reservations Center (which manages their rental inventory.)

As hard as it is to believe, some small fraction of DVC owners do exchange out, even though it is rarely a "good deal" to do so.


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## tombo (Jun 6, 2011)

bnoble said:


> Possible for MC, but I don't think so for DVC.  Disney has a very active rental channel (WDW was hotels long before timeshares), and in the past any inventory managed by their rental arm was only offered as (very expensive) Extra Vacations.  The "tell" is the number you call to set things up---if you exchange, you call DVC Member Services (which manages the timeshare side's inventory).  If you rent, you call the Disney Reservations Center (which manages their rental inventory.)
> 
> As hard as it is to believe, some small fraction of DVC owners do exchange out, even though it is rarely a "good deal" to do so.



There has been a lot of DVC inventory available this year, even for summer weeks including 4th of july, Thanksgiving, and  amazingly yes even for Christmas. All resorts including Animal Kingdom have been easy to get for 25 TPU's including 2 bed units. 

I would be surprised if there are that many DVC owners depositing their prime weeks for exchange, or even their off season weeks. The purchase price and MF's are too high to make it a good exchange in most instances. 

I was assuming that DVC deposits Developer owned weeks hoping to get RCI members to exchange for the resorts, love them,  attend sales presentations and purchase DVC points. I think RCI is a new supply of potential customers that might have never stayed at a Disney resort since they used to be affiliated with II.

I would love to know for sure if DVC and the Manhattan Club are all or mostly developer owned weeks that they deposit or if they are mainly owner deposited weeks. As expensive as these resorts are I would rarelly if ever deposit either one of these resorts for exchange personally, but perhaps there are a lot of owners who feel differently. I guess we will never know for sure.


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## chriskre (Jun 6, 2011)

bnoble said:


> As hard as it is to believe, some small fraction of DVC owners do exchange out, even though it is rarely a "good deal" to do so.



It's a very small fraction.  The DVC forum concensus is that points should only be used for Disney TS resort stays.  Some people use them for Disney cruises but it's so easy to rent your points that many just do that unless they're like me and run out of points and never have enough.   



tombo said:


> I would be surprised if there are that many DVC owners depositing their prime weeks for exchange, or even their off season weeks. The purchase price and MF's are too high to make it a good exchange in most instances.
> 
> I was assuming that DVC deposits Developer owned weeks hoping to get RCI members to exchange for the resorts, love them,  attend sales presentations and purchase DVC points. I think RCI is a new supply of potential customers that might have never stayed at a Disney resort since they used to be affiliated with II.



Disney has a cross over grid like the other big TS's like Hilton and Wyndham so you don't actually deposit a week per se but Disney picks the week, you just choose the season you want to exchange for and they take those points from you. 
Unfortunately Disney still doesn't have online booking let alone an RCI portal.


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## bnoble (Jun 7, 2011)

> I would be surprised if there are that many DVC owners depositing their prime weeks for exchange, or even their off season weeks. The purchase price and MF's are too high to make it a good exchange in most instances.


I understand that.  But, there is a mostly-strict "firewall" between inventory in the rental pool (i.e. that disney controls) and inventory in the timeshare system (i.e. that Members "own").  Disney does not do developer deposits; they rent them instead.

I can give you more details another time for why I believe this---running to a meeting this morning.  But, I am confident that it is true.



> The DVC forum concensus is that points should only be used for Disney TS resort stays.


Remember that DISboards' DVC ownership is not representative of Members generally, in the same way that TUGgers are not representative of timesharers generally.


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## rickandcindy23 (Jun 7, 2011)

There are a lot of DVC owners. A LOT!  Some of your neighbors own and don't talk about it, nor do they go to disboards or mouseowners.   

When we were looking at DVC with our salesperson a few years back, he had a software that allowed us to see who in our zip code owned DVC.  I was shocked to discover that five people we know fairly well owned DVC.  I never had that conversation with any of them before, because it never crossed my mind to ask if they owned timeshare.  Our next door neighbors own DVC and did use it trade into Hawaii with II a few years ago.  I didn't know they owned DVC, and it came up in conversation about two weeks ago, while we were all in the yard.  I didn't even know they liked Orlando, because they give us a hard time about going so often.  Imagine that?  They own at Old Key West and have owned for nearly 20 years.


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## tombo (Jun 7, 2011)

bnoble said:


> I understand that.  But, there is a mostly-strict "firewall" between inventory in the rental pool (i.e. that disney controls) and inventory in the timeshare system (i.e. that Members "own").  Disney does not do developer deposits; they rent them instead.
> 
> I can give you more details another time for why I believe this---running to a meeting this morning.  But, I am confident that it is true.
> 
> ...



Wow. If Disney deposits weeks based on owner's points required, there are some owners depositing a lot of points with RCI for exchange. I am very surprised that people spend so much to buy DVC and so much for annual MF's to not use the weeks themselves if you are correct there are a LOT of DVC owners using their points/weeks for exchange rather than personal use. It is a good thing for RCI exchangers enjoying easy and relativelly cheap access to DVC inventory that most DVC owners are not members of TUG or the Dis Boards, because if they were that inventory would dry up. You seem to know for sure and I am not doubting you, but I am still surprised that there are that many Disney owners depositing their weeks for exchange.

I  feel the same way about the Manhattan Club. It is a bad deposit for exchange given what the annual MF's are and given what the owners could rent their weeks for. Either Manhattan Club is depositing lots of developer owned inventory or there are a LOT of Manhattan Owners depositing their weeks too. I know that the Manhaatan Club gives cheap discounted vacations at the Manhattan Club if you agree to attend the timeshare sales presentation. Those have to be developer owned inventory. As far as the huge bulk deposits to RCI covering every week of every month in every unit type I would still assume that is mainly developer controlled inventory, but the Manhattan Club owners might be depositing their weeks for exchange in large numbers too. Out of curiosity I would love to know for sure, but I doubt we ever will. If someone has knowledge of where these deposits come from, it would be interesting to find out.


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## Timeshare Von (Jun 7, 2011)

At the risk of repeating something already said somewhere in the last 40 posts . . . .

We owned a 3BR fixed week and in RCI we had three deposit options . . . 1BR; 2BR or the 3BR.  Unfortunately the TPE value for the 3BR deposit was less than the sum of the 1BR + 2BR.  Why would ANYone deposit the 3BR?

There was a disservice to owners in how the TPE's were established for this particular timeshare (probably others too), I believe to force owners into making two deposits.  After all, two deposits doubles (twice!) the number of transactions RCI can then make and collect fees on.

WOW that is a lot of variations of "2".


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## tombo (Jun 7, 2011)

Timeshare Von said:


> At the risk of repeating something already said somewhere in the last 40 posts . . . .
> 
> We owned a 3BR fixed week and in RCI we had three deposit options . . . 1BR; 2BR or the 3BR.  Unfortunately the TPE value for the 3BR deposit was less than the sum of the 1BR + 2BR.  Why would ANYone deposit the 3BR?
> 
> ...



But you can still see availability of 3 bed units with lock-offs on RCI. It makes no sense to me or you to deposit a 3 bed room when you can get more TPU's by splitting and depositing just like depositing DVC or Manhattan Club for exchange makes no sense except for specific very hard to get exchanges, but as many have noted most timeshare owners are not members of TUG. 

I own way too many weeks but none are 3 bed room lock-offs. If I was not a member of TUG I would have not known that some 3 bed lock offs are like exchange gold under the new program. I also would not know to split them and deposit separatelly. TUGGERS found this out and told me. Otherwise I would assume that if a 3 bed deposit was worth 50 TPU's, then depositing the one bed side would be worth say 20 and the 2 bed side would be worth 30. I would never have known or even guessed that the one bed side would be worth 30 and the 2 bed side worth 40 for a total of 70 TPU,s. Most ower's probably do not know this either, so when they deposit their week they simply call RCI and deposit the whole thing unless they are going to use part personally and deposit the other  part. There will always be lock-offs deposited whole because there will always be owners who assume it is the same either way points wise and it is easier to deposit the whole thing at once rather than splitting it.

I think a lot of times we assume something discussed here daily is common knowledge among ALL timeshare owners, and that is often not the case. Sometimes when talking to someone by the pool about TUG and timeshares in general I am reminded that what we learn from other TUGGERS on this site is not even close to common knowledge. There are many things learned on TUG that I don't talk about by the pool, and some I won't even discuss in open forums here on TUG. Being a TUG member does have advantages.


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## rickandcindy23 (Jun 7, 2011)

> I think a lot of times we assume something discussed here daily is common knowledge among ALL timeshare owners, and that is often not the case. Sometimes when talking to someone by the pool about TUG and timeshares in general I am reminded that what we learn from other TUGGERS on this site is not even close to common knowledge. There are many things learned on TUG that I don't talk about by the pool, and some I won't even discuss in open forums here on TUG. Being a TUG member does have advantages



There is a lot of assuming on TUG!  Look at all of the eBay listings, people owned those units and were so dreadfully unhappy, they paid $3-4K to get rid of them!   Most people are in the dark about RCI, II and alternate exchange companies. They have no idea how to use the exchange system and prefer to let RCI or II handle all exchange requests for them, and they don't bother to get online.  They are naive and get bad exchanges and weeks overlap or don't match up, so they just take what they can get.  

Thank heavens I know more than I did just 11 years ago.


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## sandkastle4966 (Jun 7, 2011)

RickandCindy has it right !   WE at TUG get it (and lots more) about managing our timeshares,  but reality is that TUG members are a small fraction of owners. And really only a fraction of TUG members are really active.  

Before TUG, I deposited my 2 bedroom lockoff as a 2 bedroom (just once) to see how it would trade - had to do trial and error.  It was equal to the one bedroom !  Never did it again, later, read about it on TUG.  

Wyn deposits the lockoffs as 2 bedrooms, and as 1 bedrooms.  I assume its "what there".  Gotta assume the same of the "pool" memberships - they dont think (so much) about raw numbers of units.

Tuggers are about maximizing benefit - go US !


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## glypnirsgirl (Jun 7, 2011)

rickandcindy23 said:


> There is a lot of assuming on TUG!  Look at all of the eBay listings, people owned those units and were so dreadfully unhappy, they paid $3-4K to get rid of them!   Most people are in the dark about RCI, II and alternate exchange companies. They have no idea how to use the exchange system and prefer to let RCI or II handle all exchange requests for them, and they don't bother to get online.  They are naive and get bad exchanges and weeks overlap or don't match up, so they just take what they can get.
> 
> Thank heavens I know more than I did just 11 years ago.



I was one of those owners. I bought DVC for a specific purpose: to be certain that I could take my child on vacation. I was a single mom and I worked lots of hours and I wanted to have that time with him. I regularly, but not always, used my DVC points. I knew how to bank and how to borrow. 

I was so clueless, I did not make my reservations until the beginning of my use year. And I stayed clueless for 12 years! And I could have continued to stay clueless because I was happy with how I used my points.

It was just serendipity that I ever learned how to more optimally use my DVC points. My husband was an active participant in an unrelated forum. I was a forum widow. One day when I was complaining about it, he set up my computer beside his and told me to find a forum about something that I was interested in. The first two forums that I participated in were about tomatoes and DVC. I could never figure out how to navigate DIS, so I participated in mouseowners. From mouseowners, I learned about TUG. 

I would still not have found Mouseowners or TUG if my husband had not been participating so actively in a forum. 

And I think that I am the more typical DVC user. I suspect that there is a tremendous amount of point breakage for DVC owners. I certainly lost lots of points over the years out of ignorance.

elaine


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## glypnirsgirl (Jun 7, 2011)

And in my bankruptcy business, almost every client that owns a timeshare tells me, I own there, but we have not been since we bought it. Many times these are paid off timeshares that they have been paying dues on for years.

One time (out of MANY), one of my clients owned 4 Royal timeshares and he regularly used his. He was concerned that he would lose them because they are non-exempt property. Property that is non-exempt goes to the trustee. The trustee than decides if the property is worth administering (taking) for the benefit of the creditors. I told him that we would have to list them and we had to list them at their fair value. And we did.

The trustee looked at the schedules, saw the timeshares that had a tremendous amount of equity in them because we fairly valued them. And promptly abandoned them. I asked him why he abandoned and he told me that they were too hard to get rid of. 

One happy client!!!

elaine


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## MichaelColey (Jun 7, 2011)

I agree with the consensus from the past 10-20 posts...  Many (perhaps most?) timeshare owners are ignorant of many aspects of timesharing and don't get the full value out of their timeshares.  They'll buy from the developer.  They'll buy more from the developer.  They'll deposit lockoffs as a whole rather than split.  They'll exchange DVC or MC into RCI.  They'll (unsuccessfully) try to find things last minute.  They'll exchange for a cruise.  They'll let deposits/points expire unused.  They'll pay someone $3-5k to give their timeshare away.  We can't assume that they know what's best and will do it.  They just won't.


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## Carolinian (Jun 7, 2011)

Cindy, do you understand what a personal attack is and is not.  Some have biases as to what they own, and a reference to that is certainly not a personal attack.

The one who gets personal on these boards more than any other is Tombo.  He even made an implied threat of physical violence to e. bram, something I have never seen on a timeshare site before.  He wants to talk about aspects of my personal life, from my former profession to some of my public activities, which are totally unrelated to the issues being discussed about RCI.  Now those are the REAL personal attacks.

When most of the little group most vocally defending RCI's policies that overvalue the overbuilt areas happen to own in overbuilt areas and are getting windfalls from that overvaluation, that is simply pointing out why they are not being objective, which is in no way a personal attack.  They benefit so they want to gang up on anyone who dares rattle the cage about RCI's mispointing of values. 



rickandcindy23 said:


> The mods rarely delete an entire post, but yours was over the top.  Don't let one person bother you so much that you set off red flags for those of us who know TUG rules.  I know more about Carolinian than you do, and he has been personally helpful to me.
> 
> Carolinian needs to be less personal, I agree.  He can bash RCI all he wants, because it's his opinion, and he isn't changing anyone's mind.  I have been hot and cold with RCI over the last few years, since 5/30/2009.  I was able to see prime inventory and it suddenly stopped.
> 
> ...


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## chriskre (Jun 7, 2011)

bnoble said:


> Remember that DISboards' DVC ownership is not representative of Members generally, in the same way that TUGgers are not representative of timesharers generally.



True but I'm a Mouseowner member not DIS.  I think Mouseowners has a better grasp of DVC than DIS with their not so hidden agenda.  :ignore:


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