# What is a good worldmark pricepoint



## tug1873 (Aug 19, 2013)

What is a reasonable price to pay for worldmark points. I can assume a mortgage on an a small 6k contract for about 50 cents a point from a private seller. Looking around this actually looks like it might be market price for the contract and it's fully loaded at this price. Since I can assume the mortgage there is very little upfront money to get in so it is attractive to me. I can then just pay it off over the next year. I was planning on paying cash next year but this seems too good to pass up.

From what I can tell the lowest WM contracts I seen are around 30-35 cents a point on ebay.


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## ronparise (Aug 19, 2013)

50 cents for an assumable contract is pretty good. In any case it's what  I'm paying for the contract I'm buying right now.


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## Rent_Share (Aug 19, 2013)

too high when you consider the 14 + % interest 

You should be able to pay less than 2500 fully loaded

Paying 3,000 plus 14 %  around $ 200 if you pay it off in a year would be around $ 700 + extra for the assumable


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## ronparise (Aug 19, 2013)

Rent_Share said:


> too high when you consider the 14 + % interest
> 
> You should be able to pay less than 2500 fully loaded
> 
> Paying 3,000 plus 14 %  around $ 200 if you pay it off in a year would be around $ 700 + extra for the assumable



I didnt mean to imply that 50 cents a point plus interest was a good or bad deal for the op. I know I used the word "good" but what I meant is that its about what I see in the market.  If I had said 50 cents is about right I think my meaning would have been more clear

Of course $3000 plus interest is too much.  Wolrdmark should be trading closer to 10 cents a credit, but you wont find any priced like that in todays market. if we want to play in the Wolrdmark sandbox we have to pay closer to 30 cents a credit today. and if we want to do it without spending any money up front the price is about 50 cents plus 14% interest.

Whether or not thats too much is not for you or me to say...The op has to decide for himself.


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## LLW (Aug 19, 2013)

tug1873 said:


> What is a reasonable price to pay for worldmark points. I can assume a mortgage on an a small 6k contract for about 50 cents a point from a private seller. Looking around this actually looks like it might be market price for the contract and it's fully loaded at this price. Since I can assume the mortgage there is very little upfront money to get in so it is attractive to me. I can then just pay it off over the next year. I was planning on paying cash next year but this seems too good to pass up.
> 
> From what I can tell the lowest WM contracts I seen are around 30-35 cents a point on ebay.



IMHO 50 cents may be a good price for buying from a reputable and experienced WM broker but not good enough for buying from a private seller. A private deal is more risky, and an ordinary seller cannot guide you through the buying process (nor have the necessary Wyndham insider connections needed for a smooth and fast closing, that a regular WM broker might have), or help you up the learning curve to maximize the value of the account.

Of course if you are a seasoned buyer you probably don't need the above advantages. But a seasoned buyer would probably also have the ability to find prices closer to the 30-cent point.

If you are in a hurry to buy to enjoy a vacation so much that you are willing to borrow at 14%, some introductory credit cards may have 0% interest for 18 months, plus give you flyer mileage.

If you can save up the needed cash over the next year then buy, the 14% saving would probably be the best investment you can make with that cash.


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## tug1873 (Aug 19, 2013)

Ron is correct about the market being about 50cents. I know there are some cheaper points on ebay but since worldmark costs more money then other timeshares i would rather aquire it through another source then ebay. eBay is the only place I have seen cheaper then 50 cent a point.  i am not worried about the interest I already factored that into the cost. 


What makes this attractive is it's easy to acquire and then pay off when I please.
A few hundred more in the long run shouldn't make much of a difference.

I am going to go ahead and take this one. i think the 6k points may actually be a good compliment to wyndham. There a few California and Maui resorts I would like to go to once in a while and wyndham simply is not there.


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## tug1873 (Aug 19, 2013)

LLW said:


> IMHO 50 cents may be a good price for buying from a reputable and experienced WM broker but not good enough for buying from a private seller. A private deal is more risky, and an ordinary seller cannot guide you through the buying process (nor have the necessary Wyndham insider connections needed for a smooth and fast closing, that a regular WM broker might have), or help you up the learning curve to maximize the value of the account.
> 
> Of course if you are a seasoned buyer you probably don't need the above advantages. But a seasoned buyer would probably also have the ability to find prices closer to the 30-cent point.
> 
> ...




Since I would only be paying the transfer fee not much risk on my part.  Also worldmark isn't a deeded resort like other places so it much easier to do the closing. I already seen the estoppel and everything is up and up.

I could pay off the loan right away just like the idea I can get everything set up first. They really just owe what the thing is worth. They only owe around 2500. I was just adding my closing costs to it and rounding up. Even eBay auctions seem to be over 2k with closing fees. 

My biggest thought was is 50 cents way to much. I rather pay 10 cents like Ron said.


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## ronparise (Aug 19, 2013)

LLW said:


> IMHO 50 cents may be a good price for buying from a reputable and experienced WM broker but not good enough for buying from a private seller. A private deal is more risky, and an ordinary seller cannot guide you through the buying process (nor have the necessary Wyndham insider connections needed for a smooth and fast closing, that a regular WM broker might have), or help you up the learning curve to maximize the value of the account.
> 
> Of course if you are a seasoned buyer you probably don't need the above advantages. But a seasoned buyer would probably also have the ability to find prices closer to the 30-cent point.
> 
> ...



Its easy to close a Worldmark deal. Wyndham does all the paper work.  All the buyer and seller have do is to sign. A monkey could do it and I have.


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## ronparise (Aug 20, 2013)

LLW said:


> IMHO 50 cents may be a good price for buying from a reputable and experienced WM broker but not good enough for buying from a private seller. A private deal is more risky, and an ordinary seller cannot guide you through the buying process (nor have the necessary Wyndham insider connections needed for a smooth and fast closing, that a regular WM broker might have), or help you up the learning curve to maximize the value of the account.
> 
> Of course if you are a seasoned buyer you probably don't need the above advantages. But a seasoned buyer would probably also have the ability to find prices closer to the 30-cent point.
> 
> ...



Buy from a broker, or buy from ebay, a worldmark credit is a worldmark credit. It doesnt make any difference. 

If I was the op Id take the 18000 credits, rent in another 18000 and make  three high value reservations. Id rent them at $1500 a week and have my loan paid off in a year, principle, interest,  mf and the rent for the extra credits. (heres a hint... Superbowl 2015 is in Phoenix

The mistake you guys are making is looking at this as a money pit or liability. If you treat it as a money making asset,  paying too much, and using leverage to get started can make sense


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## GregT (Aug 20, 2013)

ronparise said:


> [Ron's Idea]



I'm not quoting it in case Ron edits it -- but that's a really really good idea.  That's a great way to mitigate the acquisition cost for a moderately risk taking buyer.

Good luck to the OP -- you've gotten good advice from all...

Best,

Greg


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## tug1873 (Aug 20, 2013)

The way I look at it theFirst time i use this thing it will be paid for. I am suppose to go to Sonoma next year for a week with my wife for our anniversary. I was most likely going to need rent a hotel room and i haven't seen anything in rci to trade.Lasst time I rented there it cost me over $300 a night for hotel room and that was a good deal. weekend rates there are easily 400-500 a night. There are very few places to rent in the wine county that are nice. They also don't allow any new construction.

Ron you have a good idea if I can't get a reservation there. The other place with high hotels is solvang. Easy to get 300-400 a night  in the summer there on the weekends. If those places are availble with enough ease I will be buying a lot more worldmark to rent.


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## ronparise (Aug 20, 2013)

tug1873 said:


> The way I look at it theFirst time i use this thing it will be paid for. I am suppose to go to Sonoma next year for a week with my wife for our anniversary. I was most likely going to need rent a hotel room and i haven't seen anything in rci to trade.Lasst time I rented there it cost me over $300 a night for hotel room and that was a good deal. weekend rates there are easily 400-500 a night. There are very few places to rent in the wine county that are nice. They also don't allow any new construction.
> 
> Ron you have a good idea if I can't get a reservation there. The other place with high hotels is solvang. Easy to get 300-400 a night  in the summer there on the weekends. If those places are availble with enough ease I will be buying a lot more worldmark to rent.



Oh, man...not more competition

Seriously, Ive been looking for a second area to specialize in...I think you may have given it to me...thanks

see you on Craigs List


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## benyu2010 (Aug 20, 2013)

tug1873 said:


> Since I would only be paying the transfer fee not much risk on my part.  Also worldmark isn't a deeded resort like other places so it much easier to do the closing. I already seen the estoppel and everything is up and up.
> 
> I could pay off the loan right away just like the idea I can get everything set up first. They really just owe what the thing is worth. They only owe around 2500. I was just adding my closing costs to it and rounding up. Even eBay auctions seem to be over 2k with closing fees.
> 
> My biggest thought was is 50 cents way to much. I rather pay 10 cents like Ron said.




If you pay it off right the way, then it is a cash purchase and price is high. FWIW, 6K and 7K has same MF rate, you lose 1K credit every year.


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## benyu2010 (Aug 20, 2013)

ronparise said:


> Its easy to close a Worldmark deal. Wyndham does all the paper work.  All the buyer and seller have do is to sign. A monkey could do it and I have.




experience is required though as it must be error free and complete in a timely manner ( 30 calendar days window from transfer docs issued to finished work actually received by Wyndham Title Dept). Some types of transfers have more works than other, and may take longer to process as well. There is no pecking order for Wyndham title, just do it right and you can get things done considerably faster than many advertised.

Closing worldmark transfer is a piece of cake anyway...


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## tug1873 (Aug 20, 2013)

ronparise said:


> Oh, man...not more competition
> 
> Seriously, Ive been looking for a second area to specialize in...I think you may have given it to me...thanks
> 
> see you on Craigs List



I am not much going to be much competition. Most I would want to rent out is a week or two a year. Just so I could own enough to use use it whenever I want to.

Pretty much anywhere near the coast in California in the summer is a high rent district.  San Diego is another place where even Econo Lodges go above $200 a night on the weekends. The wyndham property should be a good renter as well if you looking for areas to rent.  The hardest place I have ever seen to get a hotel room on the weekend during summer months is on the 101 from Santa Barbara to Monterrey.    This is the main reason I was attracted to Worldmark points.  Actually there in quite a few unique areas on the west coast. Much like wyndham is on the east coast.


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## Rent_Share (Aug 20, 2013)

ronparise said:


> Of course $3000 plus interest is too much. Wolrdmark should be trading closer to 10 cents a credit,


 
So now instead of just being Fred's shill you are channeling PerryM ? (you would have to have some history, not just volume of posts to understand that comment)

The reason WM trades higher than Wyndham is the governing documents prevent it from being a blank check to Wyndham in increasing maintenance fees (annual cap) to meet their corporate profit goals


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## Rent_Share (Aug 20, 2013)

benyu2010 said:


> experience is required though as it must be error free and complete in a timely manner ( 30 calendar days window from transfer docs issued to finished work actually received by Wyndham Title Dept). Some types of transfers have more works than other, and may take longer to process as well. There is no pecking order for Wyndham title, just do it right and you can get things done considerably faster than many advertised.
> 
> Closing worldmark transfer is a piece of cake anyway...


 
I do believe your most recent split combine venture will expose you to the dark side of the transfer department


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## PassionForTravel (Aug 20, 2013)

If you are planning on using your account to get into Marina Dunes or Pismo Beach be aware that those are usually gone at or before the 13 month point (people are using throwaway days to get it) for the summer.

Oceanside is easier (although either at or close to 13 months) since it's a larger property. Oceanside it's right next to I5, we stayed there once and the freeway noise was to much for me. The Wyn TS property in Oceanside is much nicer. 

Ian


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## Rent_Share (Aug 20, 2013)

tug1873 said:


> The hardest place I have ever seen to get a hotel room on the weekend during summer months is on the 101 from Santa Barbara to Monterrey.


 

Pismo and Marina Dunes are two of the most difficult to book


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## benyu2010 (Aug 20, 2013)

Rent_Share said:


> Pismo and Marina Dunes are two of the most difficult to book



and high TOT (tax)


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## benyu2010 (Aug 20, 2013)

Rent_Share said:


> I do believe your most recent split combine venture will expose you to the dark side of the transfer department



Thanks for the caution. I'm more optimistic type and I will see how darker it could be I believe in the competency of Wyndham Title until they prove me wrong.


RE. Ron, 10 cents, PerryM, I agreed further reading is required. Worldmark has great value due to its governing doc, flexibility, low MF and (mostly) fee-free system. More importantly, Wyndham focuses on the sale side to generate profit, not as much in management contract. Worldmark is the best of three and it is in the interest of Wyndham as well to support its brand name and (resale) value.

BTW, have not seen PerryM's post for while. What's he doing now?


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## K2Quick (Aug 20, 2013)

Rent_Share said:


> I do believe your most recent split combine venture will expose you to the dark side of the transfer department



I just completed a split about three weeks ago.  From the date of my first phone call to initiate the split until the time I received confirmation the split was processed took about six weeks.  I was shocked/pleasantly surprised.


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## benyu2010 (Aug 20, 2013)

K2Quick said:


> I just completed a split about three weeks ago.  From the date of my first phone call to initiate the split until the time I received confirmation the split was processed took about six weeks.  I was shocked/pleasantly surprised.



Split or combine is simpler than split-combine. It is a single transfer of two-step process and takes longer to complete with more nuances, still it is just a step-by-step process you need to follow through.


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## tug1873 (Aug 20, 2013)

PassionForTravel said:


> If you are planning on using your account to get into Marina Dunes or Pismo Beach be aware that those are usually gone at or before the 13 month point (people are using throwaway days to get it) for the summer.
> 
> Oceanside is easier (although either at or close to 13 months) since it's a larger property. Oceanside it's right next to I5, we stayed there once and the freeway noise was to much for me. The Wyn TS property in Oceanside is much nicer.
> 
> Ian



I figured that those resorts are hard to book but I usually plan 13 months out anyways.  It's why I don't think I would try to rent out worldmark unless I simply couldn't use the points.  

I think I would actually prefer to stay in San Diego then Oceanside much closer to attractions that I want to see in the area like balboa park. Between worldmark and wyndham.


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## PassionForTravel (Aug 20, 2013)

The San Diego resorts are much easier to get into. Probably because they are not on the coast and they cost more credits. All three of them are wide open for next summer at this point.

Ian


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## buzglyd (Aug 20, 2013)

PassionForTravel said:


> The San Diego resorts are much easier to get into. Probably because they are not on the coast and they cost more credits. All three of them are wide open for next summer at this point.
> 
> Ian



Ian, does WM have a home week advantage like HGVC? 

Can you own at Pismo and have a fixed week or any advantage?


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## PassionForTravel (Aug 20, 2013)

No everyone has the same priority. Which can be both good and bad. But there are ways for experienced users to get a jump on other less experienced users.

With Worldmark you don't own at a specific location unlike HGVC. 

Ian


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## presley (Aug 20, 2013)

buzglyd said:


> Can you own at Pismo and have a fixed week or any advantage?


There are no fixed weeks.

There are a few residence clubs in the WM system.  Those can be transferred to WM points for some fee each year.  As far as I know, none of the California locations have residence clubs.  I only know of a few in Oregon.


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## Rent_Share (Aug 20, 2013)

Except for the fact that it's on the central coast, Pismo is not that desirable:

Very few units ~ 20  Small 1 bedrooms

No Landscaping to speak of

Very Limited Views


I have never stayed at Marina Dunes, however their 2 Bedrooms are reputed to be on the small side


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## Rent_Share (Aug 20, 2013)

presley said:


> There are no fixed weeks.
> 
> There are a few residence clubs in the WM system. Those can be transferred to WM points for some fee each year. As far as I know, none of the California locations have residence clubs. I only know of a few in Oregon.


 
Southshore (South Lake Tahoe - Zephyr Cove Nevada) has residence club units, however it is in Nevada by a couple of miles


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## ronparise (Aug 20, 2013)

Rent_Share said:


> So now instead of just being Fred's shill you are channeling PerryM ? (you would have to have some history, not just volume of posts to understand that comment)
> 
> The reason WM trades higher than Wyndham is the governing documents prevent it from being a blank check to Wyndham in increasing maintenance fees (annual cap) to meet their corporate profit goals



Ive been reading PerryM's posts on wmowners to see what you are talking about.  You are right, I think he and I would agree on a lot. especially the decline of worldmark credit value.  I dont agree with his logic but his conclusion is right I think. and I dont think 10 cents (my number) or 12 cents, his number,  is the end of it....they are just stops along the slow slide to zero

You are exactly right (I think) about the relationship between maintenance fees and credit value. Where you are wrong (I think) is with the 5% cap.  Thats not enough to properly maintain the resorts and bring them up to the standards most buyers will want to see at their timeshares, but 5% is still a big number. 5% a year over 15 years is a double. . And when the maintenance fees become more expensive than comparable rentals the price of the timeshare will be zero...Thats where we are going, I think


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## cotraveller (Aug 20, 2013)

ronparise said:


> You are exactly right (I think) about the relationship between maintenance fees and credit value. Where you are wrong (I think) is with the 5% cap.  Thats not enough to properly maintain the resorts and bring them up to the standards most buyers will want to see at their timeshares, but 5% is still a big number. 5% a year over 15 years is a double. . And when the maintenance fees become more expensive than comparable rentals the price of the timeshare will be zero...Thats where we are going, I think



I have stayed in 10 different WorldMark resorts over the past two years (25 or so overall) and in general I would say they were all well maintained.  They do not seem to be suffering any ill effects due to a lack of funds caused by a limit on the maintenance fees.  WorldMark resorts operate on a 5 to 7 year refurbishment schedule and if you happen to stay at a resort right after a major refurbishment cycle the grounds and units sparkle.  You will hear some complaints about the condition of a particular unit, which does happen.  We checked into a unit at St George once that had dust bunnies hanging off of the ceiling fan.  A minor problem, but one that was rather gross looking.   Overall though resort maintenance consistently gets good marks.

As far as maintenance dues are concerned,  owners are complaining all of the time about the WorldMark maintenance dues increases which have averaged 4.3% per year since Wyndham (Cendant) came on the scene in 2002 and have hit the 5% cap three times. Dues on a 10,000 credit account were $419 in 2002 and are $662 now.  Would the dues increases have been higher without the cap?  Possibly, but as a previous poster pointed out, WorldMark sales is a much larger profit center for Wyndham than the management contract.

More important is the flexibility of WorldMark that allows an owner of a relatively small account such as we have to enjoy many weeks of vacation per year.  It is that same flexibility that allows owners who use WorldMark as a profit center to be successful at it if they learn how the system works. As long as any rule changes that are implemented in an attempt to curb some of the rental activity do not significantly interfere with the flexibility for owners who use WorldMark for their personal enjoyment, things will remain fine.  WorldMark resale prices may fluctuate some, especially if the rule changes cause some of the mega-renters to dump their accounts, but barring any major overall economic setbacks I don't think zero is in the foreseeable future.


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## CO skier (Aug 20, 2013)

*Blast from the past*

RE:  the PerryM reference (and some interesting historical perspective on WM pricing from December 2007)



PerryM said:


> I have chronicled the free fall of WM credits - just did a recap, here it is:
> 
> 
> The lowest resale price for a normalized* WM account in 2007 was 54¢
> ...



In November 2011, I purchased a 12K WM membership for a "normalized" price of $0.24/credit.

Here is a recent EBay auction that sold for a "normalized" price of $0.16/credit:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/WorldMark-B...51313359067?pt=Timeshares&hash=item3a837188db

"Normalized" price calculation:

$2101 (bid) + $788 (last year's MF) +299 (transfer fee) = $3188

24000 "Available" credits + 10000 credits (Nov. 2012-Aug 2013) - 12000 credits (to "normalize" the account) = 22000 credits @$0.06/credit (rental rate) = $1320

$3188 - $1320 = $1868 ("Normalized" price) / 12000 annual credits = $0.16/credit

If the going rate of $0.07/credit for rental credits (in late 2007) is used, the "normalized" price of this account becomes $0.14/credit.


There are plenty of perfectly good, even luxurious, timeshares out there for not much more than closing costs.  Timeshare buyers need factor this truism into their purchase price decision, "All timeshares trend to $1.00, some just get there sooner than others."


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## ronparise (Aug 20, 2013)

Fred, I hope you are right and I am wrong,  but when I read about no tv in the bedrooms,   I wonder.

But its not so much the maintenance that I worry about its the ratio of maintenance fees to comparable rentals. As long as the number is less than one...no problem, but if comparable rentals ever become cheaper than maintenance fees... watch out


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## ronparise (Aug 20, 2013)

CO skier

i think you have it right, we keep trying to explain the fall to zero or argue the opposite with another bunch of facts and figures, but none of that matters....the one true thing is "All timeshares trend to $1.00, some just get there sooner than others."


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## benyu2010 (Aug 20, 2013)

ronparise said:


> But its not so much the maintenance that I worry about its the ratio of maintenance fees to comparable rentals. As long as the number is less than one...no problem, but i*f comparable rentals ever become cheaper than maintenance fees... watch out*



Agreed. I think it only exists in theory though. What are your samples for rentals? Worldmark is a very large system and commercial rental price vary widely among bookings of same credit value. Do you use top 5%, top 20%, medium, mean, Oregon coast summer, events, etc...




			
				PerryM said:
			
		

> *So I still recommend folks get a 6,000 WM credit account and rent as much usage as you want for peanuts.*



The fundamental flaw is the number--6K.

6K is same rate of MF as 7K, you lose 1K per year. You re-coup the purchase price of extra 1K within a few years, whether 16 cents or 30 cents. It is not economical to add 1K afterward because every transfer costs $299;

5K is rare, but easily obtained through split-off. 7K is more readily available as standalone and can be obtained through split-off, too.

The rate of *peanuts* fluctuates too. Many know there was recent spike during summer booking. If more owners travel and opt for easy route of cruise&flights exchanges, it would be credit shortage and squeeze the strategy.

Currently, large account generates 10,000 credits & 1 HKT at cost of $500, it goes north of $650+ in the market. Rental of reasonable weeks go much higher. I agree with Fred that we won't see zero for Worldmark in foreseeable future. It's just the abundant of supply of credits rental and this small account strategy depress the demand of permanent credits.


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## CO skier (Aug 20, 2013)

benyu2010 said:


> ...  I agree with Fred that we won't see zero for Worldmark in foreseeable future. It's just the abundant of supply of credits rental and this small account strategy depress the demand of permanent credits.



The collapse of Club Wyndham contracts from a few thousand dollars to near zero dollars in a relatively short time was coincident with Wyndham eliminating the owner-to-owner transfer of Club Wyndham points.  There were other rule changes too, but the elimination of points rentals did not create any increase in demand for permanent points.


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## tug1873 (Aug 20, 2013)

I doubt that we will see worldmark drop much. If you look at the locations of the resorts many of the locations are not places where someone else could come in and build another resort.   I could probably name dozen or so resorts in locations that it unlikely another timeshare will be built around them.  

It's not that worldmark is overvalued it the fact that wyndham is most likely  is undervalued in the marketplace. I think the changes made a couple of years ago caused many people who relied on renting to dump there shares.  That process is still going on but eventually it will be in the hands of people who actually use the system.  

Long term those prices are going rise to what they should be. Wyndham right now is the best deal going in timeshares. 

The one system that to me seems to be overpriced is DVC especially when you consider it RTU which means every year you get closer to it worth nothing.


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## benyu2010 (Aug 20, 2013)

CO skier said:


> The collapse of Club Wyndham contracts from a few thousand dollars to near zero dollars in a relatively short time was coincident with Wyndham eliminating the owner-to-owner transfer of Club Wyndham points.  There were other rule changes too, but the elimination of points rentals did not create any increase in demand for permanent points.



The credit rental feature is a two-edge sword to permanent credit value. The value is in usage. e.g. A summer month long stay in Seaside oceanfront unit every year is worth a lot and it only costs 50,000 credits for a 3-bedroom unit. If the credit transfer feature is eliminated, whoever goes there will buy permanent credits to make the trip anyway. 30~50 cents, no biggie...Money back in 3-7 years in usage value.

The sharp drop of Wyndham contracts was more related to general economy, in addition to fees imposed. We've seen the some recovery in value of Wyndham contracts recently and more is coming. Ron is the smart person in this move, and I think he should just keep buying it until price raised to a certain point.

BTW, MF increases, so is the inflation...One may outpace another, but the difference is minimal...


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## CO skier (Aug 20, 2013)

tug1873 said:


> I doubt that we will see worldmark drop much.



This same sentiment was expressed in 2005 when WorldMark resales were at $0.80/credit and in 2007 when WorldMark resales were at $0.50/credit and the $0.38/credit prediction was offered.  What would make now different from then?



tug1873 said:


> ...
> Long term those prices are going rise to what they should be. Wyndham right now is the best deal going in timeshares.


WorldMark is one of the best deals in timeshare systems, but there are many others that are equally as good, possibly even better, that sell for next to nothing, because there is ample supply.

Wyndham is minting new WorldMark owners faster than the demand for resales is increasing.  This will have a significant effect on resale prices going forward as these new owners sell (for whatever reason) and this supply is added to the current churn of WM memberships.


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## Rent_Share (Aug 20, 2013)

benyu2010 said:


> If the credit transfer feature is eliminated, whoever goes there will buy permanent credits to make the trip anyway


 

Bite your tongue, the elimination of the owner to owner transfers killed the resale  of WVO, VIP's were loading their accounts with millions of points and booking at 50 % of the point cost and renting for cash, there was also no limitation on guest certificates or cost

Worldmarks owner to owner rentals and free guest usages are in the governing documents

The restrictions on 2 X annual balance or charge a fee are probably not legal, but after the last lawsuit, who's going to challenge them, they stack the deck and manipulate the election and candidate selection.


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## benyu2010 (Aug 20, 2013)

Rent_Share said:


> Bite your tongue, the elimination of the owner to owner transfers killed the resale  of WVO, VIP's were loading their accounts with millions of points and booking at 50 % of the point cost and renting for cash, there was also no limitation on guest certificates or cost
> 
> Worldmarks owner to owner rentals and free guest usages are in the governing documents
> 
> The restrictions on 2 X annual balance or charge a fee are probably not legal, but after the last lawsuit, who's going to challenge them, they stack the deck and manipulate the election and candidate selection.



David, I used 'IF'...

Wyndham and Worldmark are similar fruits from same farm, but the details made them clearly distinctive products. Hard to draw a comparison just as you yourself outlined above.

Agreed...lawsuit is no fun and hurts everyone...


For CO skier,

Supply and demand is only one of dimensions for pricing. Everything has a price range unless you think Worldmark, at present, is worth zero in its lower range. _*I'm willing to accept ownership for up to one million credits at the moment to prove my point...*_


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## tug1873 (Aug 20, 2013)

CO skier said:


> This same sentiment was expressed in 2005 when WorldMark resales were at $0.80/credit and in 2007 when WorldMark resales were at $0.50/credit and the $0.38/credit prediction was offered.  What would make now different from then?
> 
> 
> WorldMark is one of the best deals in timeshare systems, but there are many others that are equally as good, possibly even better, that sell for next to nothing, because there is ample supply.
> ...



The avg daily rate for hotel prices are rising because their costs are rising as well.  Timeshare owners are not isolated from the true cost of operating a resort and will see these increases first. In this period renting looks like a good deal but over the long run rental prices have to rise. 

Timeshares value is based on what hotel rates will cost someone. If I could rent a hotel all dat for $50 a night timeshares are worthless. If the same hotel costs me $200 and I save $100 a night with a timeshare there is real value in the underlying timeshare.  Right now with wyndham I save about $100 a night over a comparable room.  When you factor  in  the fact I get a 2 bedroom there really is no comparison in why I own it. 

if you save $500 to $700 a year from 200k points it not hard to see how it's worth about 2-3k for that amount of points.  I don't doubt wyndham isn't the best deal out there but it also very flexible same thing can said for worldmark and I am willing to pay a premium for that flexibility.


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## ronparise (Aug 20, 2013)

Rent_Share said:


> Bite your tongue, the elimination of the owner to owner transfers killed the resale  of WVO, VIP's were loading their accounts with millions of points and booking at 50 % of the point cost and renting for cash, there was also no limitation on guest certificates or cost
> 
> Worldmarks owner to owner rentals and free guest usages are in the governing documents
> 
> The restrictions on 2 X annual balance or charge a fee are probably not legal, but after the last lawsuit, who's going to challenge them, they stack the deck and manipulate the election and candidate selection.



Worldmarks owner to owner assignment of credits is something allowed by the guidelines.  And we have seen how easy it is to change them


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## Rent_Share (Aug 20, 2013)

PassionForTravel said:


> If you are planning on using your account to get into Marina Dunes or Pismo Beach be aware that those are usually gone at or before the 13 month point (people are using throwaway days to get it) for the summer.
> 
> Oceanside is easier (although either at or close to 13 months) since it's a larger property. Oceanside it's right next to I5, we stayed there once and the freeway noise was to much for me. The Wyn TS property in Oceanside is much nicer.
> 
> Ian


 

No comment about the trains ?


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## cotraveller (Aug 20, 2013)

ronparise said:


> Worldmarks owner to owner assignment of credits is something allowed by the guidelines.  And we have seen how easy it is to change them



Agreed.  Rental of units is in the governing documents.  I don't think you will find owner to owner credit rentals documented anywhere.  There was a fee added to certain transfers not too long ago and more restrictions could easily be added.  

The more talk about how great credit rentals are and the more prevalent the practice becomes, the higher the risk that it will be further restricted or even eliminated.  Like some other WorldMark things (and some kids) it is something that should be seen but not heard.


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## CO skier (Aug 20, 2013)

tug1873 said:


> What is a reasonable price to pay for worldmark points. I can assume a mortgage on an a small 6k contract for about 50 cents a point from a private seller. Looking around this actually looks like it might be market price for the contract and it's fully loaded at this price. Since I can assume the mortgage there is very little upfront money to get in so it is attractive to me. I can then just pay it off over the next year. I was planning on paying cash next year but this seems too good to pass up.
> 
> From what I can tell the lowest WM contracts I seen are around 30-35 cents a point on ebay.



So, to get back to the original post, it appears that with some patience, a fully loaded 12K account can be found on EBay from a reputable reseller for the $3000 that you will be spending on the 6K account, if you are looking for the lowest pricing.

A 7K account will have the same MF as the 6K account.  (With a 7K account, you would essentially be receiving 1,000 additional "free" credits each year compared to the 6K account).

On a purely cost/credit basis, the 6K account is easy to pass up.  If you want only a 6K account, and you find an assumable loan to be worth the additional costs, then, for you, perhaps it is too good to pass up.


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## benyu2010 (Aug 20, 2013)

Rent_Share said:


> No comment about the trains ?



How could Ian miss the off-topic train

It all depends on location of the building and the tolerance level of urban noise...


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## PassionForTravel (Aug 20, 2013)

Rent_Share said:


> No comment about the trains ?



His comment about the trains is on topic. He's referring to the fact that Wyndham Oceanside is right next to the train tracks, since I commented about the road noise for WM Oceanside. 

For some reason trains don't bother me so it never crossed my mind, but road noise especially next to a freeway that just drives me crazy. I think because it's that constant drone, it's loud and there is no escaping it. 

Ian


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