# Possible relocation to Raleigh, NC - please offer Pros and Cons



## MOXJO7282

My company is offering me an optional promotion with a 15% raise but with relocation to Raleigh, NC.  It came as quite a surprise  so we're trying to process and weigh the Pros and Cons. 

Here's what I've come up with so far. I would really love to hear from those that have gone through the relocation process and their experience. 

*Pros -* I'm assuming with my Manhattan salary living in NC would be a real positive especially in the long term. I've been lucky over my career to be able to raise my family on Long Island but its getting harder and harder with taxes and the cost of living here.

My house would sell reasonably well because we've been in it for 20 years so I don't have to max out the sales number and we've upgraded and have kept it up nicely. I assume we can find something really nice in NC.

We'll be closer to Miami we're my lovely sister in law lives which will allow us to see them much more than we do now. 

*Cons -* Daughter is a freshman in local college so she would either have to live on her own or transfer to be closer to us. Son in local middle school with lots of buddies. My wife has a great group of friends. Her parents an less than an hour away. We would really want her parents to come with us and if that were the case this would turn into a big positive.

I'm most worried about my daughter and wife who are super close and my daughter decided to stay close to home to go to school to be close to her mom and this really ruins that. I believe my son will adjust since he's a cute, athletic kid who will make friends

Leaving Long Island where we've been born and raised would really be hard.


So for anyone for has some insight, or who has done it, what are some other pluses and minuses I may be overlooking?

How is the weather in Raleigh? In general how about the schools? I assume I'll be in culture shock with the change from the hustle and bustle of NY compared to NC but I'm at heart a country boy from the east end of LI so I may like the slower pace if that is actually true.

Another big question, any big airports? While it will be easier to get to our HHI TSs, I'm worried about getting to Maui and other far off destinations.   

What about housing? Will I be able to find a nice home at a good price? I'm assuming so but not sure.


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## Big Matt

Other pros:
Weather is much milder
Great things to do within 30 minutes including lots of colleges/athletics
Cheaper to live by a lot
NC state colleges are very good and may be a benefit to daughter/son
Close to the Outer Banks, Wilmington and Myrtle Beach
Cheaper gas, utilities, car insurance, etc.

Cons to consider:
People will be different including less diversity (if that's important), religious slant, etc.
No major airports although many smaller ones


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## ouaifer

_Seriously, there are *N**O* cons!  If you have that opportunity, do not hesitate...it is an amazing opportunity!  We should be so lucky!_


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## radmoo

Words from a NY transplant!
GO FOR IT,

Wow left NY for Boston area 32 years ago and 1 divorce and remarriage later, I am still here.  There is life beyond LI and upstate does NOT begin at GW bridge.  Most Greater Metro areas have lots of transplanted folks,  Charlotte had huge influx due to banking moves.  Raleigh/Research Triangle area is full of opportunity,  yes, it is different from LI but from my perespective, it is important to seize the moment and try something new.  

The one difficult thing might be making friends at this stage in life. It is always easier when you have young children.  But as you are still working,  you will have a network of colleagues.  Rule in is a growing area so there must be many group that welcome newcomers, especially if you move into a subdivision.  Middle schools is. Good time  I move because there is lots of change when moving on into high school anyway.

Your money will go so much farther that you can sock away for college, retirement and still have left over for trips back to LI if you get lonely or crave some deli or a diner.


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## l2trade

Moving away from family & friends is a big CON, especially since you have deep roots in your home town (born & raised). You have to want the move and be excited about living in the new location (or more importantly, excited about abandoning the current one), which is rarely the case with employer initiated relocations. When I last moved for work, it was because I sought out the job transfer. I already had friends and family in the new location. It wasn't until a couple years later when my wife's parents moved here too, that the relo became a real positive.

I don't live in either location, but I have extended family/friends and have visited both. If I had to choose I would pick Long Island over Raleigh in a heartbeat. Everyone I know who lives in Raleigh moved there because of work. Several have already escaped. I know a couple who destroyed their wealthy retirement savings building a retirement dream home outside Raleigh. When all was done, they loved the home, but not the location and the family isolation. They quickly moved away, but spent years after they moved trying to sell it. Long Island is a lifestyle choice, which is why housing is more expensive there. I would NOT buy a house in Raleigh, especially one of any value which will be tougher to sell if the RELO doesn't work out.

This is just my opinion. I know others will disagree.


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## bogey21

If Daughter is open to transferring, there are a bunch of great universities in and not far from Raleigh.

George


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## MOXJO7282

You'll notice there are no Cons that related to me personally but just my concern for my loved ones because I'm growing more excited by the possibilities. 

I just can't help but think of the tears that will be shed though. At the very least I'll go it alone for at least 3 months if not 6 months to get the lay of the land and whatnot.


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## Deb from NC

So much of a move depends on your attitude and how adaptable you are to change.  Here in NC the cost of living is low and the weather is mild, and both the beach and the mountains are close by.  We have GREAT colleges...Duke, UNC, Wake Forest.  But we don't have Manhattan!  And Raleigh/Durham is considered a major airport here   In general, NC is a conservative state, so you might be in for some culture shock.  I moved from NJ to KY to NC..I would go back to KY but not NJ..I'm too southern now!


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## VacationForever

I have relocated to several countries for work.  It's always been a new adventure for me and something that I had always looked forward to, although Long Island to Raleigh, NC is probably less of an adventure than relocation to different countries and cultures.  

If I were in your shoes:
- Do not sell the home in Long Island immediately.  Rent it out to cover the running expenses and to cover the mortgage if there is one on it.  If your move does not work out you can always move back to Long Island.  
- Rent in Raleigh NC in the short term or buy a modest home with a down payment that you can afford and let the mortgage/running costs be what your current expenses are in Long Island.
- Is the new job position in line with your own development and career goals?  If not, then you may not want to move.

In my own situation, I was a single mom with a great career and I could pick up and move easily as my special needs kid was young.  As he got older I had considered moving to somewhere in Europe as my next career move but I "settled" down as I put his needs before mine.  After 15 years from my first move, last year I finally sold my home for a nice profit.    

Your daughter will probably be fine emotionally but you do need to consider the additional costs of renting a place while she goes to college.  That 15% pay increase may turn into negative cash flow after paying for her own place.


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## Clemson Fan

I was born and raised on LI in Suffolk County.  I used to play PAL ice hockey close to where you live.  I left when I was 18 to go to school in SC at Clemson.

My parents were both public school teachers.  When they retired they relocated to the SC upstate actually not too far from Clemson.  With their NY teachers pensions they're able to live like kings there where the cost of living is so much less.  Since they moved literally four of our other neighbors on LI have moved down to their same city in SC.  When they visited and saw what kind of a home they could get and what the property taxes were like they were sold.  We went there for Thanksgiving this year and I literally hung out with 3 of my friends that I grew up with on LI as we were all visiting our parents.

We still have family on LI and we go there to visit.  We just went there this summer and our whole family rented a large house and had a blast.  Hawaiian actually has a direct flight now to JFK, but I digress.

Raleigh and the research triangle is a great area!  There aren't many other areas in the country that would be better to relocate to.  Your daughter can transfer to some really good universities and there's plenty of good public schools in that area for your son.

If it were me, I would make the move.


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## Bucky

It's really all about the family Joe.

We've lived in the Raleigh area for almost 23 yrs now since moving here from Southern CA. The changes we encountered are far less than what most people moving here now will. Raleigh was indeed a kicked back slower pace of life place to live. But alas, all good things come to an end. Once we were named one of the best places in America to live, the transplants started to roll in. We live in a subdivision with many transplants from the Northeast.

Those that we know, say they love it here and tell us they would have had to pay two or three times as much at least for a comparable home from where they moved. On the con, we also know a few that moved back home because of family or cultural shock! It's hard to move away from family. Being that I'm retired military we didn't encounter that problem since we hadn't had the pleasure of living close to family for many years.

As far as housing goes, it's all about location, location, location. Housing was slow here for awhile, just like it was in most other areas of the country. But, once jobs picked up, so did housing sales. We never experienced the great housing appreciation that some other parts of the country did and we also didn't receive anywhere near the depreciation other areas did!

The weather here is great but some people have a harder time adjusting to it. Us having moved from S. Calif had a little harder time. Going from hardly any humidity to what we have here was like running into a brick wall. Once people move here they understand why the South is a more kicked back area. You have to be in order to breathe! Very high humidity here and couple that with high temps makes moving slower the choice of many. The good part of that is that we play golf down here year round! We have a few days every winter that it will touch the 30's but our winter months are usually in the 40-50 degree range. I believe our annual average snow fall is less than 7" and there are many years we get nothing.

Last but certainly not least is that people are just friendlier here! We smile and wave at people that we don't even know! When we first moved here I couldn't understand why perfect strangers were waving at me while I was driving down residential neighborhoods! It's just a way of life here. In CA we basically knew the people on either side of us but none of the others in the neighborhood. Here we know almost everyone on the block. People will drive by while I'm working outside and stop just to say hi!

Needless to say, we enjoy it here tremendously. When we moved here our daughter was just getting ready to start ninth grade. She adapted very easily. Kids are great, it's the parents that need some help.

I'd say go for it in a heartbeat but I'll also re emphasize its all about leaving family behind . Some can do it and some can't. Forgot to mention that another great feature is that you're only two hours from the beach or four hours from the mountains here.

Any questions about the area, please feel free to pm me. Good luck.


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## UWSurfer

This reply will be a bit off topic and probably no use to you, but that said like Bucky I'm from and still live in S.Cal and visited Charlotte for the first time last year for the Democratic National Convention.  I made a couple trips there in the months leading up to the event last year and found the area spectacular and as Bucky noted the people generally friendlier than what I know here in LA.  Just to confuse you all a bit more, I also attended the Republican National Convention in Tampa the week before. <g>

What I thought was funny was the only thing I knew about Raleigh was that it was the closest "big city" to "Mayberry" in the Andy Griffith show.   Come to discover a little more than a year ago that "Mayberry" was actually a backlot set just 3 miles from where I live now here in LA.  It also housed sets for Gomer Pyle, Hogan's Heroes and Gone With The Wind.   Here's a link to some very interesting history of that lot, which was turned into a business park and many of those buildings now repurposed as sound stages for active TV production today.  http://www.retroweb.com/40acres_tour.html


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## Paumavista

*Small World*



Clemson Fan said:


> I was born and raised on LI in Suffolk County.  I used to play PAL ice hockey close to where you live.  I left when I was 18 to go to school in SC at Clemson.
> 
> My parents were both public school teachers.  When they retired they relocated to the SC upstate actually not too far from Clemson.  With their NY teachers pensions they're able to live like kings there where the cost of living is so much less.



Coincidence......I grew up in Suffolk county...my mom was a school teacher at Ridge Elementary School & I attended Longwood HS.  We are now in Seneca SC right outside of Clemson on Lake Keowee.  Judy


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## Patri

We were in your shoes 16 years ago. We moved 1,000 miles away and it turned out to be the best thing for everyone in our family.
I cried when I heard about the transfer, and called my parents. My mom thought it was a great opportunity and adventure and was excited for us. No sympathy there! Our oldest was in middle school, and thrived in his new school. The younger ones easily adapted.
As for your college daughter, she is old enough to either make it on her own in school, and visit on breaks like so many kids do, or she can transfer. But you should not hold back because of her. She is an adult and will be making her own life during these next couple years.
I was also sad to leave my friends, but made new ones. There are great people everywhere.
This is home now and we are all very happy.
(And if the parents want to move, that is great, but don't expect it. They may like to stay put in familiar surroundings, especially if they have lived there for a long time. The adage is not to follow your children around, because the children don't necessarily stay put. If you transfer in five years, could/should they move again?)


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## MOXJO7282

Thanks for all the positive details. I know it could be a wonderful new lifestyle but its been a tough sell to my daughter especially.

One thing I haven't mentioned is finances really aren't a major problem in the long run because we were given ownership of a popular diner and other properties in the Hamptons for tax purposes that currently my in-laws now live off the rent proceeds.   If things really got bad for us they would have no problem helping us out and could in a big way.  

My thing is I've never considered that into my plan of providing for my family's future. I've never taken one penny over the years, something I'm quite proud of, and something that has garnered me tremendous respect from my in-laws as well. 

So without considering that future revenue stream the no-brainer decision would be to make the move. It would also be better for my in-laws to get to a warmer climate, something they've talked about a million times but never wanted to leave us, so even that could be a real positive for us and them to spend even more time together in a two family situation in a warmer climate.

The one major roadblock is my daughter-wife's relationship and not wanting to separate them right now.  I'm hoping my daughter comes around and either decides she is ready to be on her own or would consider transferring to one of the many great schools near NC.

The other problem is I don't have much time to decide. Tomorrow I will get the official offer. My experience in these situations is you can't take too much time to decide because the longer you take it starts to be a negative. 

I'm also not to keen on saying no to a promotion because my experience also tells me I could be labeled a persona non grata but I think under the circumstances where there is a relocation in mind hopefully that doesn't happen.


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## Passepartout

MOXJO7282 said:


> The other problem is I don't have much time to decide. Tomorrow I will get the official offer. My experience in these situations is you can't take too much time to decide because the longer you take it starts to be a negative.
> 
> I'm also not to keen on saying no to a promotion because my experience also tells me I could be labeled a persona non grata but I think under the circumstances where there is a relocation in mind hopefully that doesn't happen.



From the above statement, it appears you have little choice but to take the promotion and relocation. 

Rest assured, your family will understand the reality of the situation and all will be well. Youngsters will grow up, get new friends, find schools and do fine.

While it may be a shock to your various systems for a while, the time will pass in a flash and you will wonder why you ever had any apprehension about it.

Don't burn any bridges right away. Sometimes keeping the family home on the 'old' location for a time is the best way forward. Sometimes families have to separate and have a 'commuter' relationship for a trial period while you try out the new job and location. This too will pass. Your family understands far more than you think they do.

All the best. 

Jim


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## vacationhopeful

Joe,
This is a decision YOU and the WIFE must make for the family's longterm benefit and your own life's goals. Your 19 yo teenager will still have extended family ties in the area (her grandparents and other friends & family). And being that this is late January, it is unlikely you would be moving your (intact) household to NC before mid-June. 

As for "selling" it to your daughter, since when has she been paying the household bills and providing the retirement funding? How would that statement "play" out with your manager? Surely, she had had other friends whose parents took job transfers to a different part of the US (or another country). Why are you seeking "her permission"? You are giving her WAY too much power. Make a "plan" to financially support her (if that is YOUR goal) thru her undergraduate college (limited) years.

ADDED: I was the 2nd child in a family of 5 kids. I was the one who packed out to a college 1,000 miles from home - but I also had summer live-away jobs since I finished 9th grade. I took my first plane flight ALONE after I figured out HOW to book an airplane ticket & paid for it by myself. That was Spring, 1970 and I was not 18yo.


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## BocaBum99

I would do it for the following reasons.

1) a move from Manhattan/Long Island to North Carolina is a natural move for people who want to retire.  You will buy a home there and even if you move back to the City, it would be nice to have a second home/ retirement home there.  Raleigh is very nice.  Nothing like having an employer pay for your relocation.

2) your daughter needs to be on her own.  She will be more independent if you aren't around.  That is actually good for her.  You will be close.  Only about 500 miles away.  That's an easy one day drive.  She can visit any time she wants.

3) you will add new experiences you never had before and you won't lose your old ones.  You can always go back to New York whenever you want.  You will actually like New York more because you will do things you never did as a local.


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## UWSurfer

A bit more on topic....

We moved across town several years ago when my boys were 15 & 18.  The move was to a family owned home that was an attractive deal, located just 6 miles from my office.   The old house was a 30 mile (& 70 - 90 minute) drive each way.  Most days now I ride a bike to work.

The 18 y/o fought it & tried to stay in our old home town as that's where his friends were.  The 15 y/o's (twins) actually came out ahead moving to a better public high school where they flourished, graduated and continued on with their lives.

Now 21 & 24, the twins separately moved to Austin, TX with significant others and are working and productive.  The 24 y/o bounced around a bit and ended up living with a g/f and working a reasonable job with a call center near LAX.  That company is opening a new office in Indianapolis and he is relocating there in a couple weeks.  

It amazing how quickly that time flew by and they have all moved on with their lives.   While not as far a move, the issues were very similar and in the end the move was positive for us all.


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## ricoba

UWSurfer said:


> .... Here's a link to some very interesting history of that lot, which was turned into a business park and many of those buildings now repurposed as sound stages for active TV production today.  http://www.retroweb.com/40acres_tour.html



thanks for this interesting site and info - even though it's way off the topic, I found the story of the old RKO backlot intersting.

to the OP, I don't have nay dog in the fight or any experience with LI or NC, but I tend to agree with others that the move may be more of a positive than a negative.


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## pittle

BocaBum99 said:


> I would do it for the following reasons.
> 
> 1) a move from Manhattan/Long Island to North Carolina is a natural move for people who want to retire.  You will buy a home there and even if you move back to the City, it would be nice to have a second home/ retirement home there.  Raleigh is very nice.  Nothing like having an employer pay for your relocation.
> 
> 2) your daughter needs to be on her own.  She will be more independent if you aren't around.  That is actually good for her.  You will be close.  Only about 500 miles away.  That's an easy one day drive.  She can visit any time she wants.
> 
> 3) you will add new experiences you never had before and you won't lose your old ones.  You can always go back to New York whenever you want.  You will actually like New York more because you will do things you never did as a local.



This is great advice.  

We did not have daughters, but 2 sons, and we told them that they HAD to go to college in a different town from where we lived and needed to live in a dorm at least one year so that they could meet every kind of person that they ever would.  This was one of the best things we did for them because they had to learn to cope on their own.  They could call when they needed advice, but soon learned to try doing things by themselves before calling.

Even though the mother/daughter relationships are generally closer, sooner or later they will grow up and start doing their own thing.  Once they are in college, it is closer to time to loosen the apron strings.

I have a brother who moved his family to the suburbs of Raleigh about 20 years ago and they love it.  The only place they would consider moving to now is Myrtle Beach where they have a condo.

American and US Air have many flights to/from Raleigh.  A few years ago, my flight to STL stopped at Raleigh for London. Southwest also flies there now too.


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## Clemson Fan

My parents would not allow myself, my brother or my sister stay at home for college.  They demanded we go away for college.  It wasn't because they didn't love us, it was because they did love us and they wanted us to learn how to live independently.  We were still welcomed home for the summer and holidays.

Frankly, in their and my experience, people they knew and my friends who continued to live at home for college had a much harder time making the transition into the "real" world and there are quite a few of them that never made the transition and are stuck in dead end jobs still talking about the good old days in High School.


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## jackio

Good luck with your decision. My family are born-and-bred Long Islanders.  My brother was transferred to Charlotte NC a few years ago.  They were able to build a beautiful home that they never could have afforded here, and their real estate taxes were super low.  They too moved to a community with a lot of transplanted Northerners.  My brother found that men have an easier time making friends.  He said that if you can talk sports you can pretty much talk to any man anywhere.  My SIL found it harder, as did their 12 year old daughter.  Their 10 year old son flourished, and made friends first through joining sports teams, then at school.  My niece found it hard to break into the middle school cliques, but that would be the case in any town in the country.  
Their baby got very sick and had to be hospitalized.  That brought home the fact that they were 10 hrs. away from any family and it was hard.
They ended up moving back because my SIL was miserable.  They can never afford the type of house they had there, but she said it's overrated.

However, your daughter is older.  The chances are good that she will not  be living on Long Island after she graduates.  The job market is bad and the cost of living is high.  If she didn't commute to school, I would say it wouldn't even be an issue because kids are not home that often if they dorm.   Can she stay with someone to finish her 2nd year of school and then transfer to a college in NC?  

Best of luck to you. - Jacki


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## jackio

Paumavista said:


> Coincidence......I grew up in Suffolk county...my mom was a school teacher at Ridge Elementary School & I attended Longwood HS.  We are now in Seneca SC right outside of Clemson on Lake Keowee.  Judy



Small world.  My brother is a guidance counselor at Longwood, and I work at William Floyd.


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## Clemson Fan

Paumavista said:


> Coincidence......I grew up in Suffolk county...my mom was a school teacher at Ridge Elementary School & I attended Longwood HS.  We are now in Seneca SC right outside of Clemson on Lake Keowee.  Judy



My father was a Social Studies teacher for 32 years at Sachem.  My mom taught English and ESL, but she took 16 years off to raise us.  They now live, along with half of our LI neighborhood, in Anderson, SC.  They travel all around the world each year as well as coming to Hawaii 2-4 times a year. They sold the house I grew up in about 10 years ago for 375k (they bought it 35 years earlier for 18k) and they bought a home in SC that is twice as nice for 170k. Their property taxes on LI were like 1k/month and now I don't even think they're 1k/year.


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## laura1957

jackio said:


> Small world.  My brother is a guidance counselor at Longwood, and I work at William Floyd.



My older sisters went to Longwood, and I believe my niece teaches at William Floyd  My cousin also used to work there.  My niece's husband teaches somewhere out there too, but cant remember where.  


My SIL's family moved from LI to Cary, NC a little over 20 years ago.  At that time their 6 kids were 6 -16 or so.  They have never regretted that move.  They purchased an abolutely beautiful home 3 times the size of their home on LI for much less than they sold theirs for -  yard easily 10 times the size


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## jme

Joe, 
My heart goes out to you for the uncertainty you face in your decision, but rest assured, life here is good. 
I came up with my own list of reasons below why we have chosen to live in the southeast.  I hope some of these reasons might make anyone considering a move here to feel more confident and comfortable.  Aside from leaving what you have loved, you will find many valid reasons to begin a new love affair----not only with a location, but a lifestyle. And realize it may not be a permanent thing, if you so choose. You're lucky in that regard. No one can ever make you do anything. 

moving to the South is great because:

1. no Noreasters.
2. no shoveling snow until April. in fact you can sell your shovel on ebay with no regrets.
3. the only subway that people have ever heard of.....is a sandwich.
4. you still have four distinct seasons, and you'll be able to play golf in all four of them.
5. neighbors will bring you chicken noodle soup when you're sick, and brownies and pecan pies for no reason at all.
6. people smile at you on the street, and say Hello automatically.
7. imagine getting into ACC basketball up close and personal---it's insanely addictive.
8. things you'll miss: northern food.......things you'll love: southern food.
9. the lifestyle is much more laid back....you'll realize that life is not a race.
10. you'll actually have time to breathe, sigh, and even laugh....and more often.
11. you'll meet friends who are just as "true blue" as before.
12. you'll meet people who used to live where you did.
13. you're within driving distance of Disney World.
14. the beach is 3 hrs away, it's wider, and you can swim in it. 
15. the mountains nearby are prettier.
16. it doesn't ever get dark at 4pm.
17. beer goes with so much more. 
18. you'll never need, or even see, a taxi driver, like ever again.
19. you'll learn new sports such as water skiing, boating, tubing, and fishing.
20. when you're boating, you'll never see 100 boats at a time, only a half dozen.
21. men still open doors for ladies, and help them get seated.
22. a long commute is 10 minutes.
23. you'll never hear a car horn unless you hit it yourself, accidentally.
24. in winter you wear two layers of clothing instead of four.
25. winter is not really a season---it's just what we call the time between Christmas and St Patrick's Day. 
26. your doctor, banker, auto mechanic, hairdresser, IT guy, and favorite waitress all go to your local church.
27. when you're out of town, your neighbor gets your mail & newspaper for you.
28. you may wish to cut your own lawn, just for the smell of freshly cut grass.
29. you'll barbeque on the back patio at least 3 times a week. 
30. you'll stop to listen to birds as they sing to you.
31. you'll soon come to believe that no one lives farther north than people from Ohio.
32. you'll discover that Krispy Kreme donuts are better than Dunkin donuts.
33. like birds and retirees, people always move south, never the reverse.
34. fried chicken, homemade biscuits, grilled corn-on-cob, hushpuppies, collard greens, cornbread, chilled watermelon.
35. you'll realize how MUCH you can go to the beach.....like, all the time.
36. southern hospitality....you don't exactly understand it until you experience it...... it is real. 
37. you can buy more "house" for the money.......instead of a 3-BR with one bath, for the same money you can buy a two-story 5-BR, 4-bath, on 3 acres.
38. you don't have to be lined up at the golf course at 4am to play golf.......you can get there at 9, hit balls a while, and tee off whenever you want.
39. everybody down south has a brother-in-law who has a fish pond. 
40. the girls are prettier... the southern belle thing is not a myth.... but look out, they are still smarter than you. 
41. all mamas can sew on buttons, or make a dress.
42. boiled peanuts, homemade ice cream, banana pudding, sweet tea. 
43. southeastern conference football.
44. every neighborhood has a kid or two who will cut your grass for $5.
45. every adult seems to find enough time to read a new book each week.
46. every family member has his or her own bicycle.
47. the sun sets over water or trees, not over buildings.
48. you wear shorts in Spring, Summer, and Fall. 
49. everybody has his or her own car.
50. you'll discover the world of gardening.
51. you wash your car on Saturdays, in your swimsuit. 
52. you will become proficient in the game of horseshoes. 
53. you will build your first tree house for your kids or grand kids. 
54. when it snows, it's called a snow day----everything closes, but that's good. 

and my favorite:
55. the cost of living is even lower than what you thought possible, so you'll retire earlier and have more saved up....and that's a fact.


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## fillde

You left out two important foods that the south can't duplicateizza and bagels.


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## BocaBum99

fillde said:


> You left out two important foods that the south can't duplicateizza and bagels.



yeah, but they got grits and chicken fried steak.


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## jme

fillde said:


> You left out two important foods that the south can't duplicateizza and bagels.



the trade-off is perhaps equal.  altho the pizza is noteworthy!!! BUT, that just makes for a trip north to get some........

some say "Will Work for Food", but I say "Will Travel for Food"


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## JanT

JME,

That list makes *me* want to move there.  LOL  If it weren't for the no state income tax in Nevada we might think about it.

Jan



jme said:


> Joe,
> My heart goes out to you for the uncertainty you face in your decision, but rest assured, life here is good.
> I came up with my own list of reasons below why we have chosen to live in the southeast.  I hope some of these reasons might make anyone considering a move here to feel more confident and comfortable.  Aside from leaving what you have loved, you will find many valid reasons to begin a new love affair----not only with a location, but a lifestyle. And realize it may not be a permanent thing, if you so choose. You're lucky in that regard. No one can ever make you do anything.
> 
> moving to the South is great because:
> 
> 1. no Noreasters.
> 2. no shoveling snow until April. in fact you can sell your shovel on ebay with no regrets.
> 3. the only subway that people have ever heard of.....is a sandwich.
> 4. you still have four distinct seasons, and you'll be able to play golf in all four of them.
> 5. neighbors will bring you chicken noodle soup when you're sick, and brownies and pecan pies for no reason at all.
> 6. people smile at you on the street, and say Hello automatically.
> 7. imagine getting into ACC basketball up close and personal---it's insanely addictive.
> 8. things you'll miss: northern food.......things you'll love: southern food.
> 9. the lifestyle is much more laid back....you'll realize that life is not a race.
> 10. you'll actually have time to breathe, sigh, and even laugh....and more often.
> 11. you'll meet friends who are just as "true blue" as before.
> 12. you'll meet people who used to live where you did.
> 13. you're within driving distance of Disney World.
> 14. the beach is 3 hrs away, it's wider, and you can swim in it.
> 15. the mountains nearby are prettier.
> 16. it doesn't ever get dark at 4pm.
> 17. beer goes with so much more.
> 18. you'll never need, or even see, a taxi driver, like ever again.
> 19. you'll learn new sports such as water skiing, boating, tubing, and fishing.
> 20. when you're boating, you'll never see 100 boats at a time, only a half dozen.
> 21. men still open doors for ladies, and help them get seated.
> 22. a long commute is 10 minutes.
> 23. you'll never hear a car horn unless you hit it yourself, accidentally.
> 24. in winter you wear two layers of clothing instead of four.
> 25. winter is not really a season---it's just what we call the time between Christmas and St Patrick's Day.
> 26. your doctor, banker, auto mechanic, hairdresser, IT guy, and favorite waitress all go to your local church.
> 27. when you're out of town, your neighbor gets your mail & newspaper for you.
> 28. you may wish to cut your own lawn, just for the smell of freshly cut grass.
> 29. you'll barbeque on the back patio at least 3 times a week.
> 30. you'll stop to listen to birds as they sing to you.
> 31. you'll soon come to believe that no one lives farther north than people from Ohio.
> 32. you'll discover that Krispy Kreme donuts are better than Dunkin donuts.
> 33. like birds and retirees, people always move south, never the reverse.
> 34. fried chicken, homemade biscuits, grilled corn-on-cob, hushpuppies, collard greens, cornbread, chilled watermelon.
> 35. you'll realize how MUCH you can go to the beach.....like, all the time.
> 36. southern hospitality....you don't exactly understand it until you experience it...... it is real.
> 37. you can buy more "house" for the money.......instead of a 3-BR with one bath, for the same money you can buy a two-story 5-BR, 4-bath, on 3 acres.
> 38. you don't have to be lined up at the golf course at 4am to play golf.......you can get there at 9, hit balls a while, and tee off whenever you want.
> 39. everybody down south has a brother-in-law who has a fish pond.
> 40. the girls are prettier... the southern belle thing is not a myth.... but look out, they are still smarter than you.
> 41. all mamas can sew on buttons, or make a dress.
> 42. boiled peanuts, homemade ice cream, banana pudding, sweet tea.
> 43. southeastern conference football.
> 44. every neighborhood has a kid or two who will cut your grass for $5.
> 45. every adult seems to find enough time to read a new book each week.
> 46. every family member has his or her own bicycle.
> 47. the sun sets over water or trees, not over buildings.
> 48. you wear shorts in Spring, Summer, and Fall.
> 49. everybody has his or her own car.
> 50. you'll discover the world of gardening.
> 51. you wash your car on Saturdays, in your swimsuit.
> 52. you will become proficient in the game of horseshoes.
> 53. you will build your first tree house for your kids or grand kids.
> 54. when it snows, it's called a snow day----everything closes, but that's good.
> 
> and my favorite:
> 55. the cost of living is even lower than what you thought possible, so you'll retire earlier and have more saved up....and that's a fact.


----------



## MOXJO7282

Well as I found out today the plan is very much in the infancy stages and its not 100% that we will be relocating, although likely, and it probably won't happen for 12 - 18 months.  

Raleigh, not Charlotte was identified as the target location, I believe near where IBM has a big center of excellence.

My superiors although again stressing optional said they would want either me or the other manager who is currently in St Louis to go. 


That timing is actually very good news because it will give me more time to evaluate the situation, have my daughter and wife get used to the idea and get my finances even more in order. 

At this point, having thought it through and factoring everything including all the great info from my TUG friends, I'm inclined to say when/if the opportunity arises we will take advantage of it.

Below is an article I just found that is so relative. Moreso than my future what about my kids future on LI. Its something I keep coming back to in my mind and it is becoming reason#1 to make the move. 

We've been so lucky that so far through this mess we've prospered but how can young families possibly afford a home without both parents having to work 2 jobs and the kids raised by strangers.

Although suffolk county LI is a special place I'm not naive to think there aren't many other places as nice or nicer, and I think this situation as been a revelation that may change the course of our lives in the near future. 

Thanks to all for the great insight. 

http://kingspark.patch.com/articles...truggles-to-pay-mortgage-rent#comment_6137087


----------



## fillde

BocaBum99 said:


> yeah, but they got grits and chicken fried steak.



I can't believe you left out biscuits and gravy.  :rofl:


----------



## jme

country ham with biscuits and RED EYE gravy

meatloaf, cabbage, and blackeyed peas....with cornbread







.


----------



## Deb from NC

And NC Barbeque with hush puppies!
Deb


----------



## BocaBum99

jme said:


> country ham with biscuits and RED EYE gravy
> 
> meatloaf, cabbage, and blackeyed peas....with cornbread
> 
> .



Sorry, New Jersey has the best meatloaf.


----------



## BocaBum99

fillde said:


> I can't believe you left out biscuits and gravy.  :rofl:



I was thinking deep fried turkey, actually.


----------



## Kagehitokiri2

cost of living would be a joke in comparison, and you get a raise too
(half decent) real estate may be cheap enough that you dont have to "move"
(what would the raise cover by itself?)
(if you kept old house, check out tax code, might be able to rent to friends/etc tax free for 2 weeks)
you also dont mention whether wife works, if she doesnt, there might be some kind of supplementary income option there

if your daughter only wants to stay near mother, check out local school options
same with in laws, see what is available for them
regardless of what you do, explore options for visiting back and forth

i always recommend trying to think laterally / outside the box
sometimes its surprising how cheap/valuable some options can be compared to the "average" and "most chosen" options
and its always worth asking, if not negotiating, because what is available can also be surprising (applies to everything)


----------



## Clemson Fan

MOXJO7282 said:


> http://kingspark.patch.com/articles...truggles-to-pay-mortgage-rent#comment_6137087



Sad article, but I've been reading stuff like that about LI for awhile.  Most of my friends that I grew up with no longer live there.  The ones that do who have good jobs are retired cops in their early to mid 40's like myself.

I hate to say it, but my parents are part of the problem LI is in right now.  My fathers public teachers pension is 80k/year including medical although now he's on Medicare.  Yes, he was making over 100k/year when he retired 15 years ago.  That goes a loooong way in SC.

Unabated taxes that are mostly used for retirees no longer in the work force can really be a ferocious animal constantly looking for new food sources.


----------



## LUVourMarriotts

This thread is kind of killing me here.  I'm in the process of selling my house.  We were deciding whether to pick up and move to NC (my company and direct group have an office in RTP) or stay around here in NY.  We have decided to stay around here.

Here are the cons we came up with (for staying around here):
Cost of living is much higher in NY
Home prices are significantly higher, 2x or more in some areas of NY
NY is going to hell in a hand basket (IMO)

The reasons we decided to stay are (in order of priority):
My wife would lose her job and we'd have to figure out something in NC
My daughter (3 1/2) is in a fantastic daycare that my wife thinks could never be replaced (I know only 2 more years)
Family is somewhat close here

We went down for a week last year to view the area.  We really loved it.  The area we liked the most was Wake Forest/North Raleigh.  That area was a little less populated.  If you want more very close, probably closer to LI, then Cary is probably a place for you to look.  There are TONS of northeasterners in the RTP area.  It will almost be like home.  The schools are rated very good in Wake County.

If you do decide to go, look up Cathy Lyons from Coldwell Banker Advantage in Raleigh.  She was absolutely fantastic to work with, and is from LI originally.  I actually got her name from another Tugger when I asked for info over a year ago.


----------



## lvhmbh

Can't speak for Raleigh but CAN speak re your son and your wife making friends.  We have a 16 yr. old that is an ice hockey player on a travel team.  I have drifted away (I see them but our lives are very different) from my original "group" and now hang with the hockey Moms.  We have bunco this Friday lol!!!  You said he is into sports so she'll make friends that way.  My best friend lives in Manhattan and I just touched bases with her this a.m.  We have been friends for over 30 years.  Some friends drift away but, since you have family up there, your wife will get to see her friends on visits.  As to your daughter, I agree with the people who say that she should get to be a little more independent.  Some of our "hockey Moms" have girls in college - all away - and visit them at special parents weekends and their daughters come home for holidays.  I have met them all as they come to the sporting events with their Moms, etc.


----------



## jme

LUVourMarriotts said:


> There are TONS of northeasterners in the RTP area.  It will almost be like home.



One point I originally wanted to make in a previous post but forgot is that, as you point out, there is already a huge population of Northerners, especially Northeasterners, living in all parts of the South, particularly NC, so no one should feel like the Lone Ranger at all.  That's how it is in Raleigh-Durham area and the Charlotte area, to name a couple. Charlotte has residents from all over the world.  My brother lives there and he has many friends from the north. 

In all the major metropolitan areas of NC (especially) there are several families on every street who are transplants, and making friends from the old 'hood is not a problem. I hear the opposite from what some might think as they contemplate moving and being "alone"----I hear that they run across their compatriots everywhere they go. 

It's been that way for some time now....the larger cities throughout the South are the same----residents from everywhere. We live in Augusta, Ga and there's a family across the street who just moved here from NY, and there are a few more scattered around the immediate area. In my practice yesterday alone I saw two new patients from up north---one from Michigan and one from Portsmouth, New Hampshire. Both said they really liked it here and would be staying.


----------



## falmouth3

I left LI many years ago.  I was so glad to leave there and I've never regretted it.  Just sold my mother's house in Oct. and I will never return to LI if I can help it.  Too crowded, too expensive, and people are so inconsiderate when compared to other locations in this country.  My sister and brother also left and feel the same way I do.


----------



## Clemson Fan

falmouth3 said:


> I left LI many years ago.  I was so glad to leave there and I've never regretted it.  Just sold my mother's house in Oct. and I will never return to LI if I can help it.  Too crowded, too expensive, and people are so inconsiderate when compared to other locations in this country.  My sister and brother also left and feel the same way I do.



Couldn't disagree more. LI was a wonderful place to grow up and I like going back like I did this past summer. It's in trouble right now with COL, taxes and their economy, but its still a beautiful place. BTW, you can go swimming at the beaches there, it's just limited to about 3 months out of the year.


----------



## jackio

Clemson Fan said:


> Couldn't disagree more. LI was a wonderful place to grow up and I like going back like I did this past summer. It's in trouble right now with COL, taxes and their economy, but its still a beautiful place. BTW, you can go swimming at the beaches there, it's just limited to about 3 months out of the year.



I love living on LI.  I feel we have the best of both the country and the city.  Everything is at your fingertips.  Unfortunately we pay top dollar for the amenities.  My concern is that my children won't be able to stay here and raise their children.


----------



## MOXJO7282

jackio said:


> I love living on LI.  I feel we have the best of both the country and the city.  Everything is at your fingertips.  Unfortunately we pay top dollar for the amenities.  My concern is that my children won't be able to stay here and raise their children.



Totally agree. If money were no object I would be raising my family exactly where I grew up, in the Hamptons, close to the beach. Schools are still outstanding and the area has a special small town charm that is wonderful.

But right now its getting tougher and tougher. For my wife and I we could easily make it long term but its my kids and all the young kids in the area who I don't know how they will afford to raise a family. 

Its not just the housing is more expensive because it is, its the taxes and the utility costs combined with the high housing costs that are the back breakers for young people starting out.

Something has to give somewhere.


----------



## heathpack

We are in the midst of a family medical crisis so have not been able to contribute much to this conversation, but I grew up in the next town to yours (you being Joe) and lived in your neck of the woods 18 years.  I went to college in Chapel Hill and veterinary school in Raleigh.  Later I returned to the faculty at the vet school in Raleigh.  So we lived in the Research Triangle area for 12 years.  If you have any specific questions, feel free to PM me.

The only things I would disagree with that have been posted so far:
1.  The weather in Raleigh is not great IMO.  Very unpleasant heat & humidity in the summer.  Daytime Mosquitos for much of the year limit ones ability to use the yard.  Winter is frequently ice-storm/freezing rain type of weather and can be pretty bleak.  Fall and Spring are nice, though.  Long Island weather is hands-down better May-Oct IMO.  NC weather is better most of the time Nov-Apr, but when it's bad in the winter in Raleigh, it's far more disruptive than in NY.

2.  NC beaches are great and swimmable May-Sept but they are weekend or longer trips from Raleigh.  Long Island beaches are day trips and as you know, swimmable nearly as long- late June through early Sept.

3.  North Raleigh and Cary are nice suburban areas, but if you like charm and don't need much space, you should consider looking to live inside the belt line.  We lived in Hayes Barton which was the perfect location for us.  If you want big house and yard, N Raleigh and Cary make sense- gated communities and good housing bang for your buck.  If you want a more traditional charming NC feel, look at Hayes Barton, Five Points and similar areas.

I also think people are underestimating the level of potential culture shock.  NC and NY are quite different.  We really love NC and would live there again for sure because it is overall much more of a do-able place to live.  But not all NYers love NC.  Definitely go visit and spend some time there to see how well it fits for you.

H


----------



## Bucky

heathpack said:


> The only things I would disagree with that have been posted so far:
> 1.  The weather in Raleigh is not great IMO.  Very unpleasant heat & humidity in the summer.  Daytime Mosquitos for much of the year limit ones ability to use the yard.  Winter is frequently ice-storm/freezing rain type of weather and can be pretty bleak.  Fall and Spring are nice, though.  Long Island weather is hands-down better May-Oct IMO.  NC weather is better most of the time Nov-Apr, but when it's bad in the winter in Raleigh, it's far more disruptive than in NY.
> 
> 2.  NC beaches are great and swimmable May-Sept but they are weekend or longer trips from Raleigh.  Long Island beaches are day trips and as you know, swimmable nearly as long- late June through early Sept.
> 
> H



Glad you qualified your statement with the "IMO" because I'll stand by my statements.

If you don't like heat I imagine it could be uncomfortable but personally I love it. It can stay in the 90's here the better part of mid May through August and even into September. The larger part of newer homes here have screened in porches with fans which makes them very useable even in our weather. I didn't know they didn't have Mosquitos in NY in the summer.

I'll agree with winter weather being more disruptive here than up north but that's mainly due to the idiots not realizing that 4WD doesn't help on ice! On the other hand we really don't have a winter here. We have an occasional icy situation but that's about it. They are calling for a brief chance of snow tomorrow and the fools are already out there running for the grocery stores! Too funny. By Wednesday it's suppose to be 70! Yup, tough winter.

It takes two hours to get to the beaches here and plenty of people go over in the morning and return after dinner. You can make it a weekend trip, but you surely don't have to.


----------



## Deb from NC

It is kind of funny when we get 1 inch of snow and everything shuts down! The good news is, the snow has usually all melted by the next day 

I'm with Bucky....I used to live in NJ and I'll take NC weather any day, even with a little heat and humidity in the summers.  I don't know too many people who move North to get away from our weather


----------



## laura1957

Deb from NC said:


> It is kind of funny when we get 1 inch of snow and everything shuts down! The good news is, the snow has usually all melted by the next day
> 
> I'm with Bucky....I used to live in NJ and I'll take NC weather any day, even with a little heat and humidity in the summers.  I don't know too many people who move North to get away from our weather





I remember our first winter here in Eastern Virginia - my then husband and I drove to work, admiring the pretty snow on the grass (the grass - none on the road)  Boy, were we surprised when we got there and found the doors locked!!   because of ALL that snow   As LI'ers we really thought that was funny

Schools are closed today because of the snow.  Took me a long time to get used to having to listen to the radio to find out if that one inch of snow was going to close us down.


----------



## Deb from NC

laura1957 said:


> I remember our first winter here in Eastern Virginia - my then husband and I drove to work, admiring the pretty snow on the grass (the grass - none on the road)  Boy, were we surprised when we got there and found the doors locked!!   because of ALL that snow   As LI'ers we really thought that was funny
> 
> Schools are closed today because of the snow.  Took me a long time to get used to having to listen to the radio to find out if that one inch of snow was going to close us down.



LOL !  I hear you!  Everyone here is in a tizzy today because we might get an inch of snow tomorrow.  There will be a run on bread & milk at the grocery store tonight


----------



## heathpack

Bucky said:


> I didn't know they didn't have Mosquitos in NY in the summer.
> 
> to.



To my knowledge, NY does not have daytime mosquitos.

In NC, the daytime Mosquitos will eat you alive if you try to BBQ, sunbathe, garden, walk to your dog, etc.  All day long, not just in the evening like most places.

Sorry Bucky to offend you.  But we did not find NC weather to be uniformly bliss, I'm just trying to paint Joe a balanced picture.

We did not move away from NC because of the mosquitos or weather, but we sure dont miss them.

H


----------



## Bucky

heathpack said:


> To my knowledge, NY does not have daytime mosquitos.
> 
> In NC, the daytime Mosquitos will eat you alive if you try to BBQ, sunbathe, garden, walk to your dog, etc.  All day long, not just in the evening like most places.
> 
> Sorry Bucky to offend you.  But we did not find NC weather to be uniformly bliss, I'm just trying to paint Joe a balanced picture.
> H



Doesn't offend me in the least bit. What I find funny is that you moved from here to LA and we moved from Orange County, CA to here! Small world. I'll take daytime Mosquitos and humidity anytime over six lanes of traffic bumper to bumper in every direction and nobody speaking English any day.


----------



## Ken555

Bucky said:


> nobody speaking English any day.



Honestly, I spoke only English today and everyone in LA understood me.


----------



## Helene4

They tax your pension there.


----------



## Bucky

Ken555 said:


> Honestly, I spoke only English today and everyone in LA understood me.



Good one Ken. Since we left in 1990 things have obviously improved! Back then I remember seeing bumper stickers that said "would the last American leaving Garden Grove please bring the American flag"! I also remember Bolsa Ave in Westminster. The fire dept actually made them put sub titles in English on their store front signs so they could find them when emergency calls came in.

On another note they are calling for a CHANCE of snow here tomorrow and have already set up schools to be released three hours early! Too funny. We surely don't respond well to winter weather advisories, but then again, we don't get many. Accuweather is still showing 66 on Tuesday and 70 on Wednesday! It's really tough down here!


----------



## amycurl

One reason I love being in NC is how much I love snow, and *love* that no one expects you to do anything when it happens except go out and play in it. No one expects you to own a snow shovel, or have your back alley plowed/cleared. No one thinks you're odd if you want to stay home and have cocoa by the fire. No one expects you to get any work done. 

Where I grew up outside of Philly, people would get into violent fights if someone ignored the lawn chair placed in the parking space they shoveled out on a public street. While perhaps justifiable, that is a problem that you'll *never* have in NC.

And, at my cousin's house in upstate NY, my daughter got eaten alive by daytime mosquitoes this year, so I'm not sure what that is about...

I do love the list about living in NC. One other cultural difference that hasn't been mentioned: people will think you talk too fast. It took many, many years of practice for me to "slow down" enough for people down here to understand what I was saying (all of my professional jobs since college have involved some level of public speaking.) I had a good friend in college (I came to NC to go to college, and stayed) from Boston. When we talked to each other, we understood each other--but all of our other friends couldn't keep up!


----------



## heathpack

amycurl said:


> One reason I love being in NC is how much I love snow, and *love* that no one expects you to do anything when it happens except go out and play in it. No one expects you to own a snow shovel, or have your back alley plowed/cleared. No one thinks you're odd if you want to stay home and have cocoa by the fire. No one expects you to get any work done.
> 
> Where I grew up outside of Philly, people would get into violent fights if someone ignored the lawn chair placed in the parking space they shoveled out on a public street. While perhaps justifiable, that is a problem that you'll *never* have in NC.
> 
> And, at my cousin's house in upstate NY, my daughter got eaten alive by daytime mosquitoes this year, so I'm not sure what that is about...
> 
> I do love the list about living in NC. One other cultural difference that hasn't been mentioned: people will think you talk too fast. It took many, many years of practice for me to "slow down" enough for people down here to understand what I was saying (all of my professional jobs since college have involved some level of public speaking.) I had a good friend in college (I came to NC to go to college, and stayed) from Boston. When we talked to each other, we understood each other--but all of our other friends couldn't keep up!



Daytime mosquitos in NY now?!  Ok, the whole east coast is off the list now.  Joe you should move to California.  Yes the traffic is insane, the cost of living an outrage and the people are loopy.  But there's zero mosquitos.  None, neither day nor night.

H


----------



## Bucky

heathpack said:


> Daytime mosquitos in NY now?!  Ok, the whole east coast is off the list now.  Joe you should move to California.  Yes the traffic is insane, the cost of living an outrage and the people are loopy.  But there's zero mosquitos.  None, neither day nor night.
> 
> H



That's because they fog the whole state anytime one shows up! I'm sure that's great for everything you leave out and your lungs just love it also! When we lived there they were always fogging for fruit flies. Wonder how much DDT was in that "fog"! Now, throw in the incessant smog and you're all set.

http://www.google.com/search?q=mosquitoes in california

All kidding aside, we loved living in Southern Cali and I'm sure NY is just as nice, albeit for different reasons, to those living there. I'd take ny of these areas over some of the foreign countries I served in, any day.


----------



## lvhmbh

I just read an article about Asian mosquitoes in New York.  Seems they are daytime mosquitoes and are causing quite a problem.  Google it!


----------



## Clemson Fan

While I'm pro the move to NC, I would agree that the summer weather is far better on LI.  LI's weather gets tempered by the ocean, so summers are a little cooler and less humid then other inland areas.  Mosquitoes are also far less of a problem on LI then down south.

Of course no place on Earth can beat the weather where I live now.  It's 80's in the summer and 70's in the winter.  I can't remember the last time I saw a mosquito.  Of course, our COL is actually much higher them it is on LI and almost anywhere else in the US.  Our property taxes are low, but our state has lots of other ways they tax us.


----------



## wilma

Bucky said:


> Good one Ken. Since we left in 1990 things have obviously improved! Back then I remember seeing bumper stickers that said "would the last American leaving Garden Grove please bring the American flag"! I also remember Bolsa Ave in Westminster. The fire dept actually made *them* put sub titles in English on their store front signs so they could find them when emergency calls came in.


Wow, quite a racist rant.....


----------



## Ken555

Clemson Fan said:


> While I'm pro the move to NC, I would agree that the summer weather is far better on LI.  LI's weather gets tempered by the ocean, so summers are a little cooler and less humid then other inland areas.  Mosquitoes are also far less of a problem on LI then down south.
> 
> Of course no place on Earth can beat the weather where I live now.  It's 80's in the summer and 70's in the winter.  I can't remember the last time I saw a mosquito.  Of course, our COL is actually much higher them it is on LI and almost anywhere else in the US.  Our property taxes are low, but our state has lots of other ways they tax us.



Yeah, yeah, yeah...but you can't drive to ski country!


----------



## Clemson Fan

Ken555 said:


> Yeah, yeah, yeah...but you can't drive to ski country!



Damn, you hit the nail on the head of my biggest negative! I LOVE to ski and being in the mountains! We go skiing for 1 week each year at Park City and its my favorite trip of the year! If I didn't have little kids I'd go more then once a year.


----------



## Clemson Fan

wilma said:


> Wow, quite a racist rant.....



When did using the word "them" become a racist rant? Come on, give me a break!


----------



## wilma

Clemson Fan said:


> When did using the word "them" become a racist rant? Come on, give me a break!



"would the last American leaving Garden Grove please bring the American flag"! 
This is racist intolerance, give me a break, the US is changing and becoming more diverse, get over it.


----------



## Clemson Fan

wilma said:


> "would the last American leaving Garden Grove please bring the American flag"!
> This is racist intolerance, give me a break, the US is changing and becoming more diverse, get over it.



Um, you highlighted the word "them" in your statement.

I'm actually married to another race/ethnicity and my children are hapa (Hawaiian term meaning half).  I have no problem with the US becoming more diverse.  The racism card is pulled out way to often and unnecessarily.


----------



## wilma

Clemson Fan said:


> Um, you highlighted the word "them" in your statement.
> 
> I'm actually married to another race/ethnicity and my children are hapa (Hawaiian term meaning half).  I have no problem with the US becoming more diverse.  The racism card is pulled out way to often and unnecessarily.


 
Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
"Good one Ken. Since we left in 1990 things have obviously improved! Back then I remember seeing bumper stickers that said "would the last American leaving Garden Grove please bring the American flag"! I also remember Bolsa Ave in Westminster. The fire dept actually made *them* put sub titles in English on their store front signs so they could find them when emergency calls came in."

Who is "them"? You may have no problem with the US becoming more diverse but clearly Bucky does! Racist comments are just that, so you believe his comments are just fine--"Back then I remember seeing bumper stickers that said "would the last American leaving Garden Grove please bring the American flag"!.


----------



## l2trade

wilma said:


> Who is "them"? You may have no problem with the US becoming more diverse but clearly Bucky does! Racist comments are just that, so you believe his comments are just fine--"Back then I remember seeing bumper stickers that said "would the last American leaving Garden Grove please bring the American flag"!.



 Bucky's post refers to an offensive bumper sticker. I do not see Bucky agreeing with that bumper sticker, do you???

 The prior sentence Bucky wrote is "Since we left in 1990 things have obviously improved!" I am not sure what Bucky meant by that, but one interpretation is that Bucky saw offensive stuff like said bumper sticker in 1990 and things are improved since Bucky wouldn't see stuff like that nowadays.

I love LA & OC. I love to vacation there. I do not see racial intolerance when I visit. I wasn't there pre-1990. But, if I saw stuff like that back then, I would agree with Bucky that things are improved.


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## Bucky

wilma said:


> Wow, quite a racist rant.....



What a stupid comment! I spoke the truth of what I saw and know happened. Didn't offer any opinion on it, just the truth. Now my comment on nobody speaking English was probably out of line and I apologize for that but you are way out in left field. Only an idiot would turn this thread into a bandstand for themselves while the rest of us were just enjoying a little good natured humor.

The next time you accuse me of being a racist, look long and hard at my avatar. I served our country for over 34 years to give you the right to make a fool of yourself.

I'll say again, we left CA in 1990 and what I saw is what I said. Have a nice day.


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## Clemson Fan

wilma said:


> Who is "them"? You may have no problem with the US becoming more diverse but clearly Bucky does! Racist comments are just that, so you believe his comments are just fine--"Back then I remember seeing bumper stickers that said "would the last American leaving Garden Grove please bring the American flag"!.



Them is them, I guess?  I don't know who them is or are?  I don't think using the word "them", even in Bucky's context, makes it a racist comment or a racist rant.

I don't even think the bumper sticker is necessarily racist.  If its referring to illegal aliens, then by definition they are not Americans.  Do I think the bumper sticker is in poor taste - Yes.  Do I think it's racist - not necessarily.

BTW, not that it really matters, but I'm actually pro-amnesty.

I guess maybe because his name is Bucky and he's from NC, it automatically makes it a racist rant!?


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## wilma

Clemson Fan said:


> I guess maybe because his name is Bucky and he's from NC, it automatically makes it a racist rant!?



Didn't say that, you did. He used this forum to make fun of non-english speaking people.


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## wilma

Bucky said:


> Only an idiot would turn this thread into a bandstand for themselves while the rest of us were just enjoying a little good natured humor.



This has nothing to do with me, so I guess I am not an idiot.


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## Bucky

Clemson Fan said:


> Them is them, I guess?  I don't know who them is or are?  I don't think using the word "them", even in Bucky's context, makes it a racist comment or a racist rant.
> 
> I don't even think the bumper sticker is necessarily racist.  If its referring to illegal aliens, then by definition they are not Americans.  Do I think the bumper sticker is in poor taste - Yes.  Do I think it's racist - not necessarily.
> 
> BTW, not that it really matters, but I'm actually pro-amnesty.
> 
> I guess maybe because his name is Bucky and he's from NC, it automatically makes it a racist rant!?



The sticker wasn't really referring to illegal aliens. This is probably going to be viewed as another racist remark by our resident expert but in 1990 at least there was an exit off of the 22 Fwy in Garden Grove for "Little Saigon". Now I'll admit for those of us that had served in the Far East, that was a little offensive. You have to remember we were only 15 years removed from one of our greatest blunders ever. For those of you that don't believe that, ask the families of the 58000+ names on the wall in D.C.

I'll stand by my comments and for those of you that think I'm just being a racist, do us all a favor and google it. For those of you that truly got what I was saying, thank you.

Joe, I'm sorry this thread got off topic but I'm sure you'll be happy with whatever decision you and your family make. Good luck.


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## radmoo

As these comments have diverted WAY off topic, I hope that the moderator will intercede here.


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## l2trade

So, it sounds like the OP will be relocating from Long Island to NC, when the promotion offer comes through. I wish him and his family all the best with the relocation. It sounds like the move will be good for them. (back on topic)


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## Ken555

Clemson Fan said:


> Damn, you hit the nail on the head of my biggest negative! I LOVE to ski and being in the mountains! We go skiing for 1 week each year at Park City and its my favorite trip of the year! If I didn't have little kids I'd go more then once a year.



Even NC is close enough to drive to ski! <back on topic>


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## m61376

Just read through this thread with interest. It's funny how different people view things differently. Admittedly, I'm prejudiced- I'm a die hard Long Islander. Love LI, love the suburban atmosphere, lifestyle, excellent schools, proximity to all that NYC- unarguably one of the best cities in the world- has to offer. 

My kids are a little older, starting out on their own. True, some of their high school classmates have moved away, but many of them have returned and are living in the City- and I mean NYC, whether Manhattan, Brooklyn or Queens. Fast forward a few years when they start t have families, and many have returned to our hometown, while others have returned to LI and Westchester. So many twenty and thirty somethings can afford to live here.

Yes, it is more expensive. Housing is pricey, and maybe we have smaller homes than we could afford elsewhere. And our real estate taxes are high- but they pay for our excellent schools and they pay for our everyday services- no entry fees for parks, no fees for garbage pickup, etc. A lot of what our real estate taxes pays for people are nickel and dimed for elsewhere. So it's not all bleak here. 

Maybe I have a different skew in things, but kids will grow up and become independent. Unless Joe's daughter has a problem with independence (which his posts have never alluded to) don't confuse interdependence with inability to be independent. Personally- and it's just my opinion- I wouldn't discourage a child from wanting to be close to her family. It lays the foundation for the future. There's something to be said for the proximity of family, and I sense from Joe's comments about his in-laws that's important to him as well. 

My own Dad turned down a huge offer many years ago because my brother was in med school in the City (so not something he could just transfer from) and never looked back. Career wise not the best decision at the time, but life-wise it was. It set the bar, and after a fellowship out of town for a few years, my brother didn't consider beginning his career anyplace else. My guess is that had we made the move, ultimately the family would have been scattered all over.

Vacations create priceless memories, which is why we're all on Tug, but everyday proximity is even more priceless (again- imho). Of course, my opinion doesn't really matter here, but just adding another perspective to what some people may consider an important aspect of life not worth compromising for- and that's ok. 

Tough decision, whatever you decide, and of course I wish you the best- good luck!


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## momeason

Deb from NC said:


> So much of a move depends on your attitude and how adaptable you are to change.  Here in NC the cost of living is low and the weather is mild, and both the beach and the mountains are close by.  We have GREAT colleges...Duke, UNC, Wake Forest.  But we don't have Manhattan!  And Raleigh/Durham is considered a major airport here   In general, NC is a conservative state, so you might be in for some culture shock.  I moved from NJ to KY to NC..I would go back to KY but not NJ..I'm too southern now!



I am a Native North Carolinian and I still live here. 

The Research Triangle is the most liberal part of North Carolina. in fact,
all urban areas..Charlotte, Greensboro and Raleigh/ Durham/Chapel Hill are 
more liberal than conservative. You will find a real mix of people from everywhere. There is definitely diversity in the Raleigh area because of the Research Triangle. We lived in the suburbs of Charlotte for 15 years. We had more yankee neighbors than North Carolinians.
Rural NC is conservative, Raleigh is definitely not.There are conservatives, but they are not the majority. They are just loud.
The Universities are among the best in the world. Duke, Wake Forest, UNC are great schools.
The cost of living is much lower, the climate is great, the people are friendly.
That raise will go a long way.
RDU and Charlotte Douglas have lots of International Flights. Traveling will not be a problem. 
Charlotte is the nation's second largest banking center.
Really, the state is not backward. The education level in Raleigh and in Charlotte is extremely high.
I live on the coast now and I love my view from my home. I really miss the culture, education level and opportunities of urban NC. 
Raleigh would be my number #1 pick of where to live and work in NC.
NC is known as the half-back state. Some northerners move to Florida and decide they do not like Florida. They move halfway back and settle in NC.
They love it here.
My son's girlfriend is from Long Island. She has been here 3 years. Her parents are considering moving here now. She lives in the Research Triangle.
Try it, you will love it!


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## momeason

Clemson Fan said:


> I was born and raised on LI in Suffolk County.  I used to play PAL ice hockey close to where you live.  I left when I was 18 to go to school in SC at Clemson.
> 
> My parents were both public school teachers.  When they retired they relocated to the SC upstate actually not too far from Clemson.  With their NY teachers pensions they're able to live like kings there where the cost of living is so much less.  Since they moved literally four of our other neighbors on LI have moved down to their same city in SC.  When they visited and saw what kind of a home they could get and what the property taxes were like they were sold.  We went there for Thanksgiving this year and I literally hung out with 3 of my friends that I grew up with on LI as we were all visiting our parents.
> 
> We still have family on LI and we go there to visit.  We just went there this summer and our whole family rented a large house and had a blast.  Hawaiian actually has a direct flight now to JFK, but I digress.
> 
> Raleigh and the research triangle is a great area!  There aren't many other areas in the country that would be better to relocate to.  Your daughter can transfer to some really good universities and there's plenty of good public schools in that area for your son.
> 
> If it were me, I would make the move.



Hi,
My son graduated from Clemson in 2008. SC is a much bigger adjustment from NY than the Raleigh area. My son left home a fairly liberal Methodist and became a Southern Baptist while at Clemson. Your family is lucky to have some other LI families around them. Retirement areas can be like that. SC is very conservative..Raleigh, NC not so much.


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## Laurie

momeason said:


> The Research Triangle is the most liberal part of North Carolina. in fact,
> all urban areas..Charlotte, Greensboro and Raleigh/ Durham/Chapel Hill are
> more liberal than conservative. You will find a real mix of people from everywhere. There is definitely diversity in the Raleigh area...
> 
> Rural NC is conservative, Raleigh is definitely not.


All true, and in fact you don't have to live right in Raleigh to work in Raleigh. The least conservative, most progressive parts of the Triangle Area are Durham and Chapel Hill, if this is a consideration for you, and have also become somewhat of a foodie capital, getting written up in places like NY Times and Bon Appetit. Durham would be the most diverse.

I was born on LI, raised just outside of NYC, and live here in the Triangle area now. I love to visit NYC, but wouldn't move back.

edited to add: Chapel Hill schools prob have the best reputation in the area.


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## amycurl

Don't forget about the People's Republic of Carrboro. 

(Said with much love and affection.)


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## MOXJO7282

As we continue to discuss this with our loved ones the positives are far out numbering the negatives but the negatives if not converted to a positive carries alot of weight with our decision.

I'm referring to my in-laws and if I can get them to agree to make the move with us.  They're such a big part of our lives and we're the only ones of the 6 kids that the parents want to be with.  All the other kids have moved away and hardly see them but we've been sharing every special moment together for the last 20 years and we would be hard pressed to leave these wonderful people. If they agree to come it almost makes it a no-brainer.  

They are definitely open to it but they are very set in their ways so I need more than just words I need a real commitment to do it. It would involve selling two homes so there will be challenging logistics to coordinate but if they agreed to come and we found a nice two family compound I could see this working out superbly.

I'm really getting ahead of things because there really is no guarantee MetLife will make the moves although all indications are they are going to.

Personally I'm pretty damn excited about it because as much as I love my siblings and LI my primary focus is my family's long term security and happiness and I can see the move being a real positive in that aspect if every thing falls into place. 

It may be a few weeks to a month before an announcement is made but I'll keep reporting if any news does develop.

Ideally it's a slow process and my daughter can finish year 2 and then we can make the transition. 

Thanks again for all the positive and not so positive feedback, its all part of the equation so I thank everyone for the honesty.


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## EileenL

*Moving to the South is like moving to another country*

There are pluses and minus
Keep your old home so you can move back if you want to whereas if you sell it you could never afford to move back

Moving to the South is like moving to another country unless you only have northern friends. Without young kids it may be harder to meet people.

The colleges are good. Your daughter would have her pick of great colleges once you have resident status. The k-12 schools are not ranked as high as the North. There is a reason salaries and taxes are so high up north. North believes in putting money back into schools, parks, libraries, etc.

Lots of diversity.

Lots of green.

Yes you can buy a bigger house but doing so will make it hard to move back or anywhere else - buying the same size helps keep things in perspective. If you move inside the Beltway - you can pay a lot more for a house but it does have its charm - anywhere else will feel like LI sprawl. 

The Beach is 3 hours away. There are a ton of jelly fish
The mountains are about 4 hours away

Being a college basketball fan is important

The pros and cons are not enough to decide. I read everyone's and the only ones that count are yours. Spending every vacation driving back north to visit family may or may not be fun - during the winter there is the snow and the Jersey Turnpike and it is expensive.

Your home is paid for. Your friends can not be found in the south. Yes people are very much friendlier but are the relationships as deep.

There are pockets of conservatives. The school board in Raleigh was taken over and their first decision was to segregate schools again. That has changed. Life is different there.

Good luck with your decision



MOXJO7282 said:


> As we continue to discuss this with our loved ones the positives are far out numbering the negatives but the negatives if not converted to a positive carries alot of weight with our decision.
> 
> I'm referring to my in-laws and if I can get them to agree to make the move with us.  They're such a big part of our lives and we're the only ones of the 6 kids that the parents want to be with.  All the other kids have moved away and hardly see them but we've been sharing every special moment together for the last 20 years and we would be hard pressed to leave these wonderful people. If they agree to come it almost makes it a no-brainer.
> 
> They are definitely open to it but they are very set in their ways so I need more than just words I need a real commitment to do it. It would involve selling two homes so there will be challenging logistics to coordinate but if they agreed to come and we found a nice two family compound I could see this working out superbly.
> 
> I'm really getting ahead of things because there really is no guarantee MetLife will make the moves although all indications are they are going to.
> 
> Personally I'm pretty damn excited about it because as much as I love my siblings and LI my primary focus is my family's long term security and happiness and I can see the move being a real positive in that aspect if every thing falls into place.
> 
> It may be a few weeks to a month before an announcement is made but I'll keep reporting if any news does develop.
> 
> Ideally it's a slow process and my daughter can finish year 2 and then we can make the transition.
> 
> Thanks again for all the positive and not so positive feedback, its all part of the equation so I thank everyone for the honesty.


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## Clemson Fan

EileenL said:


> There are pockets of conservatives. The school board in Raleigh was taken over and their first decision was to segregate schools again. That has changed. Life is different there.



Huh, segregation?  

Please provide a reference because I think that statement is purely biased opinion not based on any facts.


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## Clemson Fan

EileenL said:


> The k-12 schools are not ranked as high as the North. There is a reason salaries and taxes are so high up north. North believes in putting money back into schools, parks, libraries, etc.



That used to be true, but as time goes on it's becoming less and less true.  I don't confess to know the statistics, but I bet you there are far more northern schools on austerity budgets now compared to the south.  My niece and nephew just recently finished public school down south and they had a great all around experience.

I'm a public school product from LI and I did receive a great education that prepared me immensely well for college.  However, that was 20+ years ago now.


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## Helene4

ouaifer said:


> _Seriously, there are *N**O* cons!  If you have that opportunity, do not hesitate...it is an amazing opportunity!  We should be so lucky!_



WRONG!!!  State tax on your pension!!! :annoyed:


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## Bucky

Clemson Fan said:


> Huh, segregation?
> 
> Please provide a reference because I think that statement is purely biased opinion not based on any facts.



You're right. A totally untrue statement based on no supporting facts.

The Wake County school board is trying to nail down a redistricting plan and is being put through the wringer because they want to cut back on busing kids out of their own districts into more affluent districts! Shoot, we didn't have busing when I was a child. We went to what ever school was within walking distance to where we lived! Now the school boards are either considered segregationist or racists when they try and save money and reduce expenses because people won't stand for tax increases to bus their children! Go figure.


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