# Exchangability and Orlando



## nursekim (Mar 6, 2007)

How good is exhangability for other places if I own a 2br in Orlando?  I know Orlando is red all the time...does that mean that if I owned a floating week I would have an equal chance of exhange with my random assigned week compared to someone with a summer week?

Thanks!


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## JLB (Mar 6, 2007)

RCI, II, or other?

You didn't say it, but I sense a little of that Orlando sales pitch coming through.

The _*you have to own in Orlando in order to have great trading power *_part.  We heard it 20 years ago, several times over the years, and again Dec. 21.  (You would think that when you know your prospect has made 100 trades and is checking into a 3-bedroom at OLCC in two days--Christmas Week--that a sales manager would not say stuff like that.)

Many here will tell you that it doesn't take much to trade into good resorts in Orlando, but the reverse--that Orlando resorts will all get good trades is not necessarily true.  We owned Orlando peak summer weeks for 14-15 years, and certainly never did.  Both RCI and II, but we did not own at a resort either company favored.


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## JLB (Mar 6, 2007)

Re-reading your post, the odds of having _*an equal chance of exchange with something else*_, anywhere, is really slim.  Very seldom do 2 deposits perform exactly the same.

In the trading tests I have been a part of, there have always been many levels of trading power.  It's not just black or just white, but many shades of gray.

Trading power can be all over the place.  A poor week may compare poorly to a good week in areas and times of high demand, but in areas and times of less demand a poor trader may see the same as a good trader, or almost.

There's a lot to it, stuff that thousands of searches teaches you and that you can't explain in a short reply on a forum.  You show the differences one search at a time, and they are almost all different.


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## llp479 (Mar 6, 2007)

Not knowing what you are considering buying makes this tough to answer.  I see you're looking at DVC.  DVC doesn't directly trade with II.  DVC only lets you trade with specific resorts.  I've never done anything with our DVC except to stay on property, but many people have had good luck at exchanging but getting into a MVC is tough because of the 21 day window MVC owners have.  Also, DVC deposits a week and trust me, it will not be a prime week they deposit into II which may hurt you chances some.  Several years ago, we were able to deposit a week of our choosing, which made things somewhat better.  Many people say it is better to rent your DVC points, and use the $$ to rent through TUG or Redweek the resort you want.

We also own MVC Platinum in Orlando at Grande Vista.  I was able to trade that for a 2 bdrm at the MVC Maui Ocean Club last June.  Trade came through in less than a week.  Many other MVC owners have posted similar type trades if you can be flexible about when you want to travel.


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## JLB (Mar 6, 2007)

oops . . . . . .


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## rickandcindy23 (Mar 6, 2007)

The salesperson told you that Orlando is red all year, but there are varying shades of red.  It is difficult to get a great Orlando resort at Christmas, New Year's, President's Day, Easter and maybe 4th of July, but the rest of the year, Orlando is not very busy, because there is such a large number of timeshares there.

I used to say Orlando is overbuilt, but someone else point out that availability is just great in Orlando because of the large number of timeshares there and it would be great if everywhere we wanted to go had more timeshares, like Orlando.  I agree with that.  

We can get into any resort we want in Orlando with our Colorado weeks, and I guarantee our Colorado weeks trade better than an Orlando week will trade.  Our maintenance fees are lower, too.

I just noticed also that you are buying DVC.  Red doesn't matter.  If you love DVC, you should buy it.  I love it and cannot afford it, we have 15 weeks of timeshare already, but we do trade into DVC.  The value is there!


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## nursekim (Mar 6, 2007)

After re-reading my own post, I think I failed to ask another question re: trading power.  
From the very little research I've done, I've read that Orlando is the most requested place to request an exchange.  Of course, being as green as I am, LOL, my 1st thought is to buy in Orlando.  And then, my next thought was to buy a fixed week or float.  
My goal with buying a TS (not my planned DVC) is to solely use it to exchange and travel to many places.  (I'm also looking into points too).

I guess I was looking for some hope in thinking buying Orlando would give me maximum trading power...a girl can dream can't she 

BTW, there is no "salesperson" involved.  I have never even toured a TS!


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## nursekim (Mar 6, 2007)

rickandcindy23 said:


> We can get into any resort we want in Orlando with our Colorado weeks, and I guarantee our Colorado weeks trade better than an Orlando week will trade.  Our maintenance fees are lower, too.



Good to know!  Thanks!


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## Transit (Mar 6, 2007)

nursekim said:


> My goal with buying a TS (not my planned DVC) is to solely use it to exchange and travel to many places.  (I'm also looking into points too).
> 
> I guess I was looking for some hope in thinking buying Orlando would give me maximum trading power...a girl can dream can't she


IF your main goal is trading then Orlando is not the place for you. Keep reading posts hear on Tug there are many posts on this subject.JBL has compared trades to death.  To put it in simple terms -Orlando is easier to get than most other places.Trading to other places from Orlando may not be that easy.


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## Judy (Mar 7, 2007)

nursekim said:


> After re-reading my own post, I think I failed to ask another question re: trading power.
> From the very little research I've done, I've read that Orlando is the most requested place to request an exchange.


That might be.  But the other half of the supply/demand formula is that Orlando has a hugh supply of timeshares and more are being built.  Orlando is "red" all year.  But IMHO, that's only a marketing tool. I agree with rickandcindy23.  There are only a few weeks of the year when demand for Orlando exceeds supply.  Any other week will not have very good trading power. 


> Of course, being as green as I am, LOL, my 1st thought is to buy in Orlando.  And then, my next thought was to buy a fixed week or float.
> My goal with buying a TS (not my planned DVC) is to solely use it to exchange and travel to many places.


I have owned week 26 in Orlando since 1984.  At this point, I would only recommend buying in Orlando if you want to use your week most years.



> I guess I was looking for some hope in thinking buying Orlando would give me maximum trading power...a girl can dream can't she


Keep reading TUG.  Don't be in a hurry.  There are better choices to own for great exchange power.


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## Timeshare Von (Mar 7, 2007)

Judy said:


> I have owned week 26 in Orlando since 1984.  At this point, I would only recommend buying in Orlando if you want to use your week most years.



And even then it might not be the best "investment" in timeshare for you and your family.  With the rising costs of MF's and the potential for special assessments, the cost to own a week in Orlando may be more than what you can find a week for via RCI's Extra Vacations or even an exchange using a low MF resort.

Many do not like fixed weeks as they provide no flexibility should your family situation change, preventing you from vacationing the same week every year (even if you do want to go to that same place annually).  Should that occur,  you'll typically find yourself using an exchange company to trade your fixed week for some other date in the year.  If you can find a floating week in Orlando that will help to hedge against that challenge.

We vacation annually to Orlando, at different times throughout the year . . . but never in the peak of the summer (too darn hot) or around Christmas (just too many people!).  We have never had a problem getting a nice resort via RCI and for what I'm confident would be less than owning there and paying their MF's.

As others have stated, do your homework and research what is available.  Also try to anticipate your future needs and how you will want the TS ownership experience to work for you.  Orlando is one of the easiest places on the planet to go via TS, so don't fret about it.  I'm confident you'll find something that will work for you.


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## JLB (Mar 7, 2007)

As I suspected, you have been hoodwinked by Orlando salespeople.

The easy part of the answer is that Orlando is *not* the place to buy for trading purposes. The hard part is what *is* the place to buy.  If anyone claims to know you should be cautious.

In my experience, the best places are little-known, well-kept not-exactly-secrets, but close to it.  That's normally the types of resorts that have topped the trading power tests.  But trading power is fleeting.  Trading power being what it is, a spirit conjured up by the Trading Power Guru who is kept locked in a dingy basement in Indianaplois, I no longer try to guess what might be the best one _du jour_.  

Most who try to win the trading power game are eventually humbled, it seems.  I like to call it the _lose-what-you-brag-about _syndrome. 

I can speak in generalities, but not specifics, or, I can speak in specific generalities, or I can address general specifics.  

So I will.

Each of us are influenced by our own experience.  For me, since I have done thousands of searches over the 10 years of RCI.com, I would recommend a SW Florida resort weeks 1-15.  Most of the resorts are sold out, so their prices more truly represent value.  Their operations are fixed and secure.  They are what they are, with no smoke and mirrors.

And I have confirmed with owners there, that even the lesser ones trade well.  Even then, I would not recommend *all* of the SW FL resorts.

Of course, if you are like us, and most of the owners there, you will want to use them rather than trade them, which is what gives them their great trading power.

Like I said, others likely have their own preference, based on their own experience.


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## MikeM132 (Mar 7, 2007)

nursekim said:


> How good is exhangability for other places if I own a 2br in Orlando?  I know Orlando is red all the time...does that mean that if I owned a floating week I would have an equal chance of exhange with my random assigned week compared to someone with a summer week?
> 
> Thanks!



I'm adding only a little to what has already been posted. Orlando CAN trade well. It depends on what resort and what week. A Christmas week in Orlando, particularly at a Marriott, for example, will trade well all over. A January week at that same Marriott will not trade nearly as well. It's just supply and demand. Within II, the number one most requested resort worldwide is Marriott Maui Ocean Club. Owners from Orlando have traded into that. You just never know--it's all supply and demand and it changes all the time. A summer week at a beach resort is generally a good trader year after year. Beach property is limited naturally and really can't be overbuilt. If I were to give you the simplest possible advice on buying a timeshare for trading, that's it---summer beachfront.


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## JLB (Mar 7, 2007)

And I agree with Mike.

There is just so much involved in Trading Power, Orlando, and exchange company policies and allegiances that it would just take way too much to try to explain it.


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## nursekim (Mar 7, 2007)

JLB said:


> Trading power being what it is, a spirit conjured up by the Trading Power Guru who is kept locked in a dingy basement in Indianaplois



Whereabouts in Indianapolis ? :rofl: 

Thanks for all the advice.  It really helps to hear from people who've been there-done that  

My search and research goes on!


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## JLB (Mar 7, 2007)

I've asked the nice folks in Customer Service a couple of times, and even they don't know.  I suspect out around the NW loop somewhere.  Maybe covered in Carmel.   

Joking, but serious, the RCI tech team, and folks who take care of stuff like trading power, simply are not available to most other RCI staffers.  Staffers draw generalities just like us.

Keep in mind that Guides are people hired off the street and in most cases the extent of their knowledge is what they have been told in training classes.  There are more reliable Guides, ones who have been around longer, and they gained some experience by doing searches for people, but I have had high-ranking RCI people tell me that (some habitual TS forum users/addicts) are far more knowledgeable than most Guides.

Without looking, I can tell you (say with 10%) how many resorts are available for SW FL and Resorts on the Beach for Jan 2008 and 2009, and approximately what areas they are in, and name many of the resorts, without searching.



nursekim said:


> Whereabouts in Indianapolis ? :rofl:


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## Mel (Mar 8, 2007)

I too will agree with Mike.  It depends very much on the resort and the week.  A floating week in Orlando, where the resort tells you what week will be deposited will not usually trade well.  That's because the floating weeks are designed to allow a large number of people potential access to the best week.  But for each person who reserves the best week, there are several others who get left with the leftovers.  While the leftovers aren't all that bad, they don't trade nearly as well as those prime weeks.

That said, the resort you choose may be just as significant as the week you choose.  I moderately popular week at one of the best resorts won't equal a peak week, but may come close to a peak week at one of the "lesser" resorts.  As demand dips a bit, and there is some breathing room, anyone trading in is going to want the better resorts, so those get taken first.  It might not have been the case 10 years ago, but now most RCI members have access to enough information to know which are the better resorts, and which are glorified motel conversions.  In the slowest weeks, there are always units available.  In the best seasons, you won't find anything last minute except units that are cancelled or deposited at the last minute.

Because of these dynamics, a top week in Orlando will trade pretty well, but still not at well as a top resort in a top week in an area with few resorts.  However, you must balance that with maintenance fees, based on how you will use your week.  Consider what you will want to trade into, and look for something that will accomplish those trades for the lowest fees.  That might mean avoiding the major exchange companies altogether, and going with a resort group like Fairfield or Worldmark, if they have resorts in most of the areas that interest you.  Your annual fees might be a bit higher, but you will be more likely to get the units you want, and could avoid exchange fees (which at this point drive the cost of timesharing up quite a bit).


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## Judy (Mar 8, 2007)

Mel said:


> That said, the resort you choose may be just as significant as the week you choose.  I moderately popular week at one of the best resorts won't equal a peak week, but may come close to a peak week at one of the "lesser" resorts.  As demand dips a bit, and there is some breathing room, anyone trading in is going to want the better resorts, so those get taken first.  It might not have been the case 10 years ago, but now most RCI members have access to enough information to know which are the better resorts, and which are glorified motel conversions.  In the slowest weeks, there are always units available.  In the best seasons, you won't find anything last minute except units that are cancelled or deposited at the last minute.


There is a downside to owning at top-rated resorts, unless you only want to vacation at top-rated resorts.  II and RCI have quality filters that prevent owners of top-rated resorts from exchanging into lower rated ones.  Since there are more mediocre and low-quality resorts in the world than top-rated ones, the system functions to prevent owners of top-rated resorts from exchanging in areas where no highly-rated resorts exist, even though there might be plenty of availability in lesser resorts.


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## Mel (Mar 8, 2007)

Judy said:


> There is a downside to owning at top-rated resorts, unless you only want to vacation at top-rated resorts.



Yes, very true.  To have access to the largest range of resorts, you would be better off with an excellent week at a mediocre resort vs a mediocre week at an excellent resort.  In general you can expect to trade into similar quality resorts compared to what you own.  Some resort areas don't have any luzury resorts, and can be hard to trade in if that's what you own.


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## JT62 (Mar 8, 2007)

One other thing to consider is where you will be trying to exchange to. I've gotten every exchange I've ever requested, and exchanged a one bedroom to a two bedroom. Now, does that mean that I've got the best timeshare on earth? I wish that were true, but probably not.  For the most part, our exchanges have been to places where there are many timeshares, or it's a more regional location (so less demand)

That doesn't take away the fact that my timeshare has worked well for our family.

So, my advice would be to consider where you reasonably might want to exchange to.

JT


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## geekette (Mar 8, 2007)

nursekim said:


> Whereabouts in Indianapolis ? :rofl:
> 
> Thanks for all the advice.  It really helps to hear from people who've been there-done that
> 
> My search and research goes on!



NW Indy.  Michigan Road north of 465.  Since it's north of 96th street, I think it would officially be Carmel.  Almost spitting distance from my house, and I have considered spitting ...


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## nursekim (Mar 8, 2007)

LOL!

So, what if I owned a summer week in a decent resort in Orlando...might that take me somewhere?


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## JLB (Mar 9, 2007)

Carmel, IN.   :whoopie: 

OK folks, don't you think this _*ya gotta own Orlando to have good trading power*_ thing has been batted around long enough?

And, don't you think we have the ability to quantify it a bit?

We could do a simple, one-search trading power test, using as many different Orlando deposits as possible.  We don't have to name the resorts, either used to search or those seen, just generic descriptions like _*2-bedroom Gold Crown Week 41, deposited 14 months out*_ and Copy and Paste the number of resorts seen in the search.

Since there are no bragging rights involved, we could trust others to report accurately.  Actually, we don't even need a referree.  I could just post the search parameters and a time, and everyone could Copy and Paste their own results.

Whattya say?   




nursekim said:


> LOL!
> 
> So, what if I owned a summer week in a decent resort in Orlando...might that take me somewhere?


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## Judy (Mar 9, 2007)

nursekim said:


> So, what if I owned a summer week in a decent resort in Orlando...might that take me somewhere?


Yes, it would take you lots of places, but not everywhere at every time of the year.  It depends partly on which summer week you own; partly on which resort you own; and mostly on where you want to go and when.
My week is in II.  I can run a sample search for you if you want.  Send me an email telling me what areas you'd be interested in exchanging to and when you'd like to go.  But keep in mind that II gives preference to ongoing searches.  What I find online will only be the leftovers.


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## Mel (Mar 9, 2007)

JLB said:


> We could do a simple, one-search trading power test, using as many different Orlando deposits as possible.  We don't have to name the resorts, either used to search or those seen, just generic descriptions like _*2-bedroom Gold Crown Week 41, deposited 14 months out*_ and Copy and Paste the number of resorts seen in the search.


A comparison test would be good, but we would need to list the resorts gotten in trade, not just the number - you know that there are VEP issues involved.  In many cases, a lesser week will pull more results, but not necessarily better results.  The OP wants to know about quality as much as quantity.  In fact, I know we've done such a test in the past.


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## JLB (Mar 10, 2007)

If I was the referee, I wouldn't list the resorts (either used to search with or those seen) on-line.  

If I proposed the search, it would be one I do every day, and have done hundreds of times.  I know what resorts they are, and how different levels of trading power sort out to different resorts.  As an example, how a SA may pull OLCC, but no 3-bedrooms.

I _could_ save the details and share them privately with whoever wants them, to keep them away from prying eyes.

I am saying this because the following has been shared with me over the years:

_"my comment was that bragging on tug raises awareness of ineffeciences of the rci economic system to a group that you don't want to know about this such as sales and marketing....

"I think there have been instances where trading power was miscalculated and perhaps tug expediated the fix...

"I think in reality our ability to process data mirrors society's ability to transmit data . . .

"I can tell you that sometimes tug is its own worst enemy as the resorts
read the board and they hate reading about all the blue week trades into prime (exchanges). I have specifically had resorts call me because of tug
postings and demand answers, want changes etc."_

So why tempt it when it is not necessary to share details in order to answer the question at hand?

That question is do you have to own in Orlando in order to have top trading power, and the accompanying question that Orlando TS salespeople seem to weave into their presentations, all Orlando trades great (better than anywhere else).

We can answer that without exposing details.

For instance, in the Great SA Trade test of Ought-3, the various resorts used to search fell into definite clumps.  There were several levels.  

There was one that pulled *60* resorts.  That was a non-SA that a devious evil-doer snuck in.   

One pulled *59 *resorts, another devious evildoer with a non-SA.

There were 26 SAs and one evildoer non-SA that saw *43* reosrts.

4 SAs pulled *40* resorts.

8 SAs pulled *38* resorts.

9 different SAs pulled a different mix of *38* resorts.

1 SA pulled *36 *resorts.

3 SAs pulled *28 *resorts.

2 SAs pulled *25* resorts.

I still have the detailed breakdown, but it is not necessary to share that information to see that not all SAs trade alike, and they are certainly not at the top of the trading power food chain.

It is similar stuff that we could establish about Orlando.

But we don't have to.  Speculating is fun.   

Besides, I am not so sure that Orlando owners want to know, and they are the ones whose participation would be needed.

And I do have a few plates spinning right now.


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## Mel (Mar 10, 2007)

Yes Jim, that's what I mean.

Somebody has to have a list of which resorts were pulled, or you can't make a true comparison.  Like you noted, two groups of resorts each pulled 38 resorts, but not the SAME 38 resorts.  I don't know that I would or would not trust someone to declare one set of 38 better than the other, but it is significant to note the difference.  If we're talking about Orlando resorts, we are talking about a large range in quality, and thus I would suspect a range of VEP scores.  If you ran your test for summer on Cape Cod, as an example, and only listed the number of weeks pulled, the results would be skewed in favor of the mid-range resorts, because many of the Cape Cod timeshares are motel conversions.  RCI won't let you trade a top resort for them, at any time.  I discovered that little secret in 1995, when I wanted a week on the Cape around Memorial Day.  Yes, it's a holiday, but not a big vacation week.  We were trying to exchange Orange Lake.  In exasperation, I finally asked why we weren't getting anything, even less than 45 days out, and was told it was a quality issue.  There were plenty of weeks available, we just cold have one because we would expect higher quality.


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## JLB (Mar 11, 2007)

As my brother would say, I really think it is a _mute_ point.   

I never have and do not now sense an overwhelmingly desire for Orlando owners to unravel the myth, to quantify it.  We were among them for 14 or 15 years and were semi-content to not want to know what may be the truth.

Anyone that wants to, now knows that they are welcome to email me for a complimentary Trading Power analysis.  :whoopie:


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## nursekim (Mar 11, 2007)

I had no idea that I was asking a question about such a hot topic!  
I'm glad to have joined here and read all of this info.  I was thinking that Orlando is in demand but never realized that the supply was also there and that would affect trading power.
No worries, I've given up trying to figure out the "exchange game" and moved on to researching points systems


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## timeos2 (Mar 11, 2007)

*great choice*



nursekim said:


> I had no idea that I was asking a question about such a hot topic!
> I'm glad to have joined here and read all of this info.  I was thinking that Orlando is in demand but never realized that the supply was also there and that would affect trading power.
> No worries, I've given up trying to figure out the "exchange game" and moved on to researching points systems



Very good plan. Buying weeks to trade is a big mistake now.


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## elaine (Mar 11, 2007)

*we don't mean to scare you off--it's just that loose lips can sink ships*

many of us are happy to educate on exchanging--it's just that some tuggers have spilled the beans and then found that the next time around--similar trades mysteriously came up NIL--others have bragged about getting certain resorts with lesser quality resorts, only to them have their confirmed exhanges suddenly canceled.
So, some of us (me included) have decided to be less than boastful about some of our exchanges, esp. where we have "upgraded" to better TS quality than what we traded with.  
Points are much simpler--like for like and you know the point value up front--some like it because of that, others prefer to be "on the hunt" and to experience the thrill of the great snag with the weeks system.
But, I would not buy Orlando unless you wanted to use a lot and you needed a prime--xmas, 4th July, etc. Otherwise, buy a summer east coast beach week, if you are looking for a good trader.


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## falmouth3 (Mar 11, 2007)

*Orlando floating week*

I own a 2 BR float week at a Gold Crown resort in Kissimmee.  I always request a spring break week and I've been extremely happy with the exchanges I've gotten.  There are certainly better traders out there, but there is also a major negative bias on TUG against Orlando.  I'm very happy with my floating week.  It's taken me everywhere I've wanted to go!

Sue


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## bobk (Mar 15, 2007)

My timeshare in Orlando is what I could call average with a tug review rating at about 7;  it is a Platinum floating week, which means I am able to pick most any week of the year (including all holiday weeks).  If I pay my mf's I am able to pick whatever week I want.  I try to do my trading with either Dial an Exchange or Trading Places and have little or no restriction with trading power.  I got my timeshare cheap ($500, MF's $589 a bit high) so I think under certain circumstances Orlando could work.  I also use it primarily for trading  ( being retired I am flexible).  But unless you have a great fixed week I believe floating (if you are able to choose the floating week to exchange) is the way to go.


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