# All American Credit Cards Will Disappear by 2015 And Be Replaced With This New Tech



## ace2000 (Feb 7, 2014)

Every credit card in the U.S. will be replaced by October 2015 with new cards that contain the chip-and-PIN technology that the rest of the world has had for years, according to the Wall Street Journal.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/american-sign-swipe-credit-cards-145220287.html


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## x3 skier (Feb 7, 2014)

Finally!  

Cheers


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## Passepartout (Feb 7, 2014)

'Bout time! I got a 'chip 'n' signature just in time for a trip abroad last month. It paid off already, but chip 'n' PIN is a step beyond that one.

I suppose we'll hear the combined whine of retailers who have to buy new point-of-sale devices. It's a safe wager that the banks and Visa & M/C won't be providing them gratis.

Jim


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## csxjohn (Feb 7, 2014)

Passepartout said:


> .... It's a safe wager that the banks and Visa & M/C won't be providing them gratis.
> 
> Jim



Ya never know.  Banks will be saving millions in decreased fraud, they may just kick in to get it done.


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## persia (Feb 8, 2014)

Only a decade behind the rest of the world.....



ace2000 said:


> Every credit card in the U.S. will be replaced by October 2015 with new cards that contain the chip-and-PIN technology that the rest of the world has had for years, according to the Wall Street Journal.
> 
> http://finance.yahoo.com/news/american-sign-swipe-credit-cards-145220287.html


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## PStreet1 (Feb 8, 2014)

I'll be glad to see this change--definitely makes me wonder why we've been so slow to get the technology.


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## GetawaysRus (Feb 8, 2014)

One issue for me:  I currently have one true Chip and PIN card.  I bring it on trips abroad for use when necessary (as a just in case).  I don't know if this will be true of all Chip and PIN cards, but the credit union that issued it will not allow me to alter the PIN.  The PIN was assigned when I signed up for the card, and I was unable to select it.

It's no problem for me to remember one or two PINs.  But if I had a bunch of different cards with many different PINs, and if I could not change those PIN numbers, that would seriously stress my memory.


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## x3 skier (Feb 8, 2014)

PStreet1 said:


> I'll be glad to see this change--definitely makes me wonder why we've been so slow to get the technology.



Basically because the banks wanted the merchants to eat the cost of new cards and readers and the merchants wanted the banks to eat the cost.

Now that both are taking the hit in both money and reputation for the delay, they realized it would only get worse unless they agreed to change. 

Cheers


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## Art (Feb 8, 2014)

ace2000 said:


> Every credit card in the U.S. will be replaced by October 2015 with new cards that contain the chip-and-PIN technology that the rest of the world has had for years, according to the Wall Street Journal.
> 
> http://finance.yahoo.com/news/american-sign-swipe-credit-cards-145220287.html



I've been following the proposed change for awhile.

Cards with  chips will be  widely issued starting in 2015. However, for the most part, they will still require a signature.

The biggest change  is that a store  or business that does not switch to the chip  cards will be liable for  any  fraudulent charges  rather than the card  issuer, as is now the  case.

As far as  I  can tell from what has  been published, implementing the  PIN  part  is another, more  expensive layer  of technology.

Until the PIN technology  is fully  implemented, the main advantage  of the  chip  card is  that the card  never  leaves  the user's hand  while  it is being reader so there  is  less  opportunity  for out  of sight nonsense.

Art


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## ace2000 (Feb 8, 2014)

The shift is coming though: both MasterCard and Visa have roadmaps for the changeover, and both have set October, 2015 as an important deadline in the switch.

http://blogs.wsj.com/corporate-inte...15-the-end-of-the-swipe-and-sign-credit-card/


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## pedro47 (Feb 8, 2014)

That the best news from the banking institutions.


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## billymach4 (Feb 8, 2014)

What about ATM cards? Those can be swiped and copied just like the CC's.


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## Passepartout (Feb 9, 2014)

billymach4 said:


> What about ATM cards? Those can be swiped and copied just like the CC's.



If the ATM card is Visa or M/C branded, they will be chipped as well.


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## CarolF (Feb 9, 2014)

GetawaysRus said:


> One issue for me:  I currently have one true Chip and PIN card.  I bring it on trips abroad for use when necessary (as a just in case).  I don't know if this will be true of all Chip and PIN cards, but the credit union that issued it will not allow me to alter the PIN.  The PIN was assigned when I signed up for the card, and I was unable to select it.
> 
> It's no problem for me to remember one or two PINs.  But if I had a bunch of different cards with many different PINs, and if I could not change those PIN numbers, that would seriously stress my memory.



I would think that the US will follow everyone else.   We can choose our own pin and change it whenever we wish.  The ATM's have a pin change facility or I can phone my bank.








billymach4 said:


> What about ATM cards? Those can be swiped and copied just like the CC's.



All cards are chip and pin.  Signatures are not used at all - with one card I have access to my credit, debit or ATM.


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## MichaelColey (Feb 9, 2014)

Here's a quote I read in another article:



> Smart cards are expected to approach universality in the US in October of 2015, but don’t count on it. (See “metric system.”) No one is clamoring for them. Consumers are largely unaware of them, issuers are not anxious to assume the vastly larger expense of issuing them, and merchants are hardly lining up to buy the expensive new point-of-sale devices to transact with them.


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## x3 skier (Feb 9, 2014)

I hope the Chip and Signature cards I have now will automatically become Chip and PIN as this rollout continues. Of course that makes too much sense so I suspect they will issue new cards.

Cheers


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## persia (Feb 9, 2014)

If you got the chip and pin card for use outside the USA, it's the same technology are Europe, South America and parts of Asia have been using, so they shouldn't need to replace it. 



x3 skier said:


> I hope the Chip and Signature cards I have now will automatically become Chip and PIN as this rollout continues. Of course that makes too much sense so I suspect they will issue new cards.
> 
> Cheers


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## x3 skier (Feb 9, 2014)

persia said:


> If you got the chip and pin card for use outside the USA, it's the same technology are Europe, South America and parts of Asia have been using, so they shouldn't need to replace it.



As I said, they are Chip and Signature, not Chip and PIN. I only wish it was a Chip and PIN.

Cheers


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## Bill4728 (Feb 9, 2014)

The Marriott CC we have from Chase is "Chip & Signature" not "chip and pin" 

Hope we will not have a problem using it in Italy this spring.


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## Ken555 (Feb 9, 2014)

x3 skier said:


> As I said, they are Chip and Signature, not Chip and PIN. I only wish it was a Chip and PIN.
> 
> 
> 
> Cheers




The card is the same for both. The system tells the merchant to either print and get a signature or have the cardholder input a pin. 


Sent from my iPad


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## Passepartout (Feb 9, 2014)

Bill4728 said:


> The Marriott CC we have from Chase is "Chip & Signature" not "chip and pin"
> 
> Hope we will not have a problem using it in Italy this spring.



I suspect there will be no difficulty. The  only place you might find an unattended point of sale might be a rural train station or exit from a toll highway. Otherwise there will be someone to capture a signature.

Jim


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## CarolF (Feb 9, 2014)

Bill4728 said:


> The Marriott CC we have from Chase is "Chip & Signature" not "chip and pin"
> 
> *Hope we will not have a problem using it in Italy this spring*.



Maybe put extra time into your schedule for processing payments.   Trying to convince a foreign merchant who is accustomed to only processing payments via PIN that your card does not require a PIN could prove time consuming.

Carry extra cash as insurance maybe.  Unfortunately, it won't take long for criminals around the world to recognise an American tourist as a cash carrying target.


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## Ken555 (Feb 9, 2014)

CarolF said:


> Maybe put extra time into your schedule for processing payments.   Trying to convince a foreign merchant who is accustomed to only processing payments via PIN that your card does not require a PIN could prove time consuming.
> 
> 
> 
> Carry extra cash as insurance maybe.  Unfortunately, it won't take long for criminals around the world to recognise an American tourist as a cash carrying target.




There is no need to convince anyone of anything when paying by credit card. Either the merchant will accept it or they won't. In my experience, they will always accept it. This is much ado about nothing, in my opinion. Paying by chip and signature took all of an extra 15 seconds in most cases, and you can bet all of the restaurants and stores near tourist destinations (ie. almost every European city) will know what to do. If you don't have a chip and signature card, then it will be a bit more time but not much since most of the same processing terminals accept a swipe and signature as well as a chip and signature (I occasionally paid via American Express, and that's still a swipe and there were zero problems).

Basic common sense applies to this issue for all travelers: if you can get a chip and pin, do so. If you can't but can get a chip and signature (which we all should be able to by now) then do so. I carry cash when traveling since I'm more often going to make lots of small purchases throughout the day - public transit, cab, drinks, museum entrance fees, etc. I also don't mind going to an ATM every few days when in Europe to limit the amount of cash I carry at once. 


Sent from my iPad


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## CarolF (Feb 10, 2014)

Ken555 said:


> There is no need to convince anyone of anything when paying by credit card. Either the merchant will accept it or they won't. In my experience, they will always accept it. This is much ado about nothing, in my opinion. Paying by chip and signature took all of an extra 15 seconds in most cases, and you can bet all of the restaurants and stores near tourist destinations (ie. almost every European city) will know what to do.



You may well be right.  I responded to Bill from my dual EU/AU citizen point of view.  It is not common knowledge (outside the US) that the US uses Mag strip cards because* everyone else*, including Iran and North Korea, uses Chip and Pin.  Not everyone knows how to process a chip and signature card - they aren't used.

I should have added this qualifier - In the event that Bill spends all his time in well worn tourist areas where there are many Americans,  eats in American tourist restaurants, travels with bus loads of  Americans and shops in American tourist stores, I'm sure he will have minimal difficulty with his Chip and Signature card in Italy.


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## eal (Feb 10, 2014)

We are vacationing in California and I freaked out the first time a restaurant server took away my Canadian US-dollar chip & pin card to process it - then I remembered...


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## Ironwood (Feb 10, 2014)

eal said:


> We are vacationing in California and I freaked out the first time a restaurant server took away my Canadian US-dollar chip & pin card to process it - then I remembered...



Yeah....we were in SoCal in October, and had the same experience!


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## Ken555 (Feb 10, 2014)

*All American Credit Cards Will Disappear by 2015 And Be Replaced With This Ne...*



CarolF said:


> You may well be right.  I responded to Bill from my dual EU/AU citizen point of view.  It is not common knowledge (outside the US) that the US uses Mag strip cards because* everyone else*, including Iran and North Korea, uses Chip and Pin.  Not everyone knows how to process a chip and signature card - they aren't used.
> 
> I should have added this qualifier - In the event that Bill spends all his time in well worn tourist areas where there are many Americans,  eats in American tourist restaurants, travels with bus loads of  Americans and shops in American tourist stores, I'm sure he will have minimal difficulty with his Chip and Signature card in Italy.




I can fully appreciate the concern about this issue from your perspective. All I know is that I was in Italy a couple of years ago and like every trip to Europe, had no difficulty paying by credit card - and that Italy trip was before I had a chip and signature card. Even the small towns had no problem, as long as the merchant had a modern terminal it supported chip and pin, chip and signature and swipe and signature. 

I'm not defending the US delay at implementing chip and pin - far from it, as I'm a huge advocate of modern security prevention methods. But the reality is that few US residents have chip and pin cards since very few banks support it. And this means that businesses in other countries, assuming they want our patronage, will find a way to adapt. Cash is always good for small transactions, of course. And I have found restaurants in Europe over the years (especially in Germany) that only accept cash (but I think that's changing). 

Again, don't worry about it. They want the tourist money and will find a way for visitors to pay...


Sent from my iPad


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## beejaybeeohio (Feb 10, 2014)

Ken555 said:


> I can fully appreciate the concern about this issue from your perspective. All I know is that I was in Italy a couple of years ago and like every trip to Europe, had no difficulty paying by credit card - and that Italy trip was before I had a chip and signature card. Even the small towns had no problem, as long as the merchant had a modern terminal it supported chip and pin, chip and signature and swipe and signature.
> 
> I'm not defending the US delay at implementing chip and pin - far from it, as I'm a huge advocate of modern security prevention methods. But the reality is that few US residents have chip and pin cards since very few banks support it. And this means that businesses in other countries, assuming they want our patronage, will find a way to adapt. Cash is always good for small transactions, of course. And I have found restaurants in Europe over the years (especially in Germany) that only accept cash (but I think that's changing).
> 
> ...



Except when you're down to your last few euro (bills not coins) in the St Michel Metro Station enroute to CDG in the early a.m. before the ticket window opens and a kind Parisian gives you 3 euro so you can purchase your tickets because none of your USA credit cards will work.

Oh, and when in Pisa and you do have euros but no coins because you just arrived, and you have to pay for parking.  The free-lance "attendant" who found us a space and made change for us received a very nice tip for his "service".  Would have been easy-peasy with a chip & pin cc...

The USA has been behind the 8-ball on this issue. The Target/Neiman-Marcus breaches have been the long-needed wake up call to Visa & MC here!


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## Ken555 (Feb 10, 2014)

beejaybeeohio said:


> Except when you're down to your last few euro (bills not coins) in the St Michel Metro Station enroute to CDG in the early a.m. before the ticket window opens and a kind Parisian gives you 3 euro so you can purchase your tickets because none of your USA credit cards will work.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Not sure why you wrote this to me. I didn't say chip and signature will work everywhere - in fact, I've posted previously to plan on carrying cash for transportation options. Of course the credit cards won't work there...but that's what ATMs are for, and I would bet there was one close to the metro station and in Pisa near the parking lot...


Sent from my iPad


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## x3 skier (Feb 10, 2014)

beejaybeeohio said:


> Except when you're down to your last few euro (bills not coins) in the St Michel Metro Station enroute to CDG in the early a.m. before the ticket window opens and a kind Parisian gives you 3 euro so you can purchase your tickets because none of your USA credit cards will work.
> 
> Oh, and when in Pisa and you do have euros but no coins because you just arrived, and you have to pay for parking.  The free-lance "attendant" who found us a space and made change for us received a very nice tip for his "service".  Would have been easy-peasy with a chip & pin cc...
> 
> !



Or when you are in Schipol Airport and niether the ticket machine or the manned ticket booth accepts stripe only cards and the ATM machine is broken. So you beg money to get on the train to get to Amsterdam. 

Cheers


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## CarolF (Feb 11, 2014)

x3 skier said:


> Or when you are in Schipol Airport and niether the ticket machine or the manned ticket booth accepts stripe only cards and the ATM machine is broken. *So you beg money to get on the train to get to Amsterdam*.
> 
> Cheers



Then you get to the  Stedelijk Museum in Amsterdam and the sign outside reads "Pin only credit cards", then there is the cashless Marqt Farmers Market accepting cards with pin.


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## beejaybeeohio (Feb 11, 2014)

*Your last sentence got me!*



Ken555 said:


> Not sure why you wrote this to me. I didn't say chip and signature will work everywhere - in fact, I've posted previously to plan on carrying cash for transportation options. Of course the credit cards won't work there...but that's what ATMs are for, and I would bet there was one close to the metro station and in Pisa near the parking lot...
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad



"*Again, don't worry about it. They want the tourist money and will find a way for visitors to pay..."* Ken555

Wish it were so, but from subsequent posts to mine, clearly others have been in similar positions due to no chip/pin cc.


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## ScoopKona (Feb 11, 2014)

Ken555 said:


> There is no need to convince anyone of anything when paying by credit card. Either the merchant will accept it or they won't. In my experience, they will always accept it.



Only in the cities. The further out into the sticks you go, the less and less useful that card will be. I've been on trips in the last few years where my success rate with a chip-and-signature is around 50%. The other 50% of the time, better have cash.

Our bank issues a chip and pin, so we have one of those now for foreign travel. I'll be able to see how that works when we go to Ireland later this year.


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## Laurie (Feb 11, 2014)

Ken555 said:


> Not sure why you wrote this to me. I didn't say chip and signature will work everywhere - in fact, I've posted previously to plan on carrying cash for transportation options. Of course the credit cards won't work there...but that's what ATMs are for, and I would bet there was one close to the metro station and in Pisa near the parking lot...


Ken, glad you never ran into a situation where you had *nothing* that would work, but believe me they exist, and in places many of us would like to travel. 

Don't plan on traveling through Brittany or other parts of rural France, where many gas stations don't have any human attendants to accept your cash. We've had to abandon plans to keep on driving to places we'd wanted to see, because of the very real possibility of running out of gas and being stranded.

Some countries and regions cater to us, some don't, and I don't want to have to research that carefully ahead of time and then restrict my itineraries to those that do.


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## Ken555 (Feb 11, 2014)

Laurie said:


> Ken, glad you never ran into a situation where you had *nothing* that would work, but believe me they exist, and in places many of us would like to travel.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




This is definitely TUG. All or nothing, eh? Again, BRING CASH. 


Sent from my iPad


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## CarolF (Feb 11, 2014)

ScoopLV said:


> Only in the cities. The further out into the sticks you go, the less and less useful that card will be.* I've been on trips in the last few years where my success rate with a chip-and-signature is around 50%. The other 50% of the time, better have cash.*
> 
> Our bank issues a chip and pin, so we have one of those now for foreign travel. I'll be able to see how that works when we go to Ireland later this year.



Technology changes so quickly that what happened on trips "in the the last few years" will be magnified now.  From what I hear, the complaints from Americans are getting louder.

Australia stops accepting signatures by 1 August this year.  Whilst we are supposed to allow foreigners to use old cards, I don't know how many people will know or remember that exclusion, particularly when only one group (Americans) request signature use.

There are a lot of merchants worldwide that won't accept signatures for fear they will be responsible for fraudulent transactions.  It isn't true btw.  Others have thrown away their old machines.

So pleased you managed to get a chip and pin for your travels.


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## persia (Feb 11, 2014)

Yeah, if you stay where foreigners are common there are many alternatives, but get off the beaten track, where it's just locals and the choices for non-chip and pin cards are often bleak.


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## Laurie (Feb 11, 2014)

Ken555 said:


> This is definitely TUG. All or nothing, eh? Again, BRING CASH.


I think you missed my point, which is that you can't always use cash.

Or else I'm missing yours.


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## Blues (Feb 12, 2014)

I went online today to Capital One, and did an online chat to ask whether they'd issue me a chip and PIN card.  Alas, it's not even an option with them.  They're my favorite card to use for foreign travel, as their forex fee is only 1%.  Sigh.  I must admit, I made a snippy comment, that I'd love to hear back from them when they catch up to the rest of the world.  I hope it's soon.  I'm next traveling to Europe in summer 2015.  I hope they wake up by then.

So what's the best option out there for a US-issued chip & PIN card that doesn't charge a 3% forex fee?

-Bob


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## ScoopKona (Feb 12, 2014)

Blues said:


> So *what's the best option* out there for a US-issued chip & PIN card that doesn't charge a 3% forex fee?



The best option? One of the "high annual fee" chip-and-pin cards with no forex fee whatsoever. And then have a large enough balance with the issuing bank to get them to waive the $450.00 annual fee.

Otherwise, just keep the 3% forex fee chip-and-pin for instances where nothing else works -- because that is becoming more and more prevalent. Use a less expensive card first whenever possible.

As many have said, civilization is moving towards cashless transactions. Automated kiosks which only take smart cards are more commonplace. And good luck arguing with the computer that American Exceptionalism is an adequate substitute for not having a modern bank card.


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## Blues (Feb 12, 2014)

ScoopLV said:


> Otherwise, just keep the 3% forex fee chip-and-pin for instances where nothing else works -- because that is becoming more and more prevalent. Use a less expensive card first whenever possible.



Yeah, that's what I figured.  If I can get 80-90% of my expenses on the 1% card, using a high fee card for the rest won't be so painful.



> And good luck arguing with the computer that American Exceptionalism is an adequate substitute for not having a modern bank card.



Heh.  There actually was a person on the other end of that chat session.  And s/he gave no response to my snippy comment.  S/he either showed great restraint, or it flew over his/her head.  Not sure which.

Thanks Scoop.
Bob


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## ScoopKona (Feb 12, 2014)

Blues said:


> Yeah, that's what I figured.  If I can get 80-90% of my expenses on the 1% card, using a high fee card for the rest won't be so painful.



Two things: That "high annual fee" card might work out better depending how much you plan to spend on your trip. Just guessitmate what you'll spend on your trip and compare the forex fee of a "free" card with the annual fee of a "forex free" card. The banks are going to make their money one way or another. Either from annual fees, forex fees, or the money they make from the customer's deposits. 

Second: Every time I travel abroad with a normal, magnetic stripe card, I have been the victim of fraud. Waiters and hotel clerks must do brisk business stealing card numbers, expiration dates and CVV codes. This year, I was hit with several thousands of dollars in bogus charges from Skype and some "by the day" car rental service in Paris. Someone in Shanghai tried to ding my card to the tune of five figures buying Louis Vuitton. That charge was declined, which started the ball rolling on the latest fraud investigation.

I didn't end up paying for any of these charges. But once again I had to cancel the card, get a new one, and update the automatic payments associated with the old card. Chip and pin obviates that. And frankly, that would be worth a few hundred dollars each year so I don't have to bother with CC fraud.


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## rleigh (Feb 12, 2014)

So if I understand this correctly, the news article headline *"All American Credit Cards Will Disappear In 2015 And Be Replaced With This New Tech"* is incorrect, inaccurate, misleading, etc. 

This isn't just "credit cards"'; it affects debit cards as well. And neither debit nor credit cards are going away, they're just smaller.

Again, if I understand correctly....


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## SMHarman (Feb 12, 2014)

Blues said:


> I went online today to Capital One, and did an online chat to ask whether they'd issue me a chip and PIN card.  Alas, it's not even an option with them.  They're my favorite card to use for foreign travel, as their forex fee is only 1%.  Sigh.  I must admit, I made a snippy comment, that I'd love to hear back from them when they catch up to the rest of the world.  I hope it's soon.  I'm next traveling to Europe in summer 2015.  I hope they wake up by then.
> 
> So what's the best option out there for a US-issued chip & PIN card that doesn't charge a 3% forex fee?
> 
> -Bob


Chase BA Card?  That is Chip and Signature though.


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## Passepartout (Feb 12, 2014)

rleigh said:


> So if I understand this correctly, the news article headline *"All American Credit Cards Will Disappear In 2015 And Be Replaced With This New Tech"* is incorrect, inaccurate, misleading, etc.
> 
> This isn't just "credit cards"'; it affects debit cards as well. And neither debit nor credit cards are going away, they're just smaller.
> 
> Again, if I understand correctly....



They look pretty much the same except they have a chip embedded in them- like your newest passport. They are ever so slightly thicker to accommodate the chip. They also have the traditional magnetic stripe, and may or may not have the embossed raised numbers.

Visa and Master Card have said they will replace _all_ of their cards (credit or debit) by Oct of 2015. We can only hope that they 'see the light' or get sufficient pressure to make them operate with a PIN instead of a signature.

Jim


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## ScoopKona (Feb 12, 2014)

Passepartout said:


> e can only hope that they 'see the light' or get sufficient pressure to make them operate with a PIN instead of a signature.



I don't think the banks need to see the light -- the chip costs the same whether it's chip and pin or chip and signature. The merchants need to see the light, because they're the ones who will need to update their point of sale hardware.

Reading this thread makes me realize that it's probably a good bet to invest in companies which manufacture point of sale credit card readers.


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## Passepartout (Feb 12, 2014)

ScoopLV said:


> Reading this thread makes me realize that it's probably a good bet to invest in companies which manufacture point of sale credit card readers.



Not a bad plan. But who? A quick search shows a plethora of terminals from outfits you've never heard of. It hasn't been lost on me that there is no standardization of the ones out there now, I can see that that problen will just be exacerbated with a whole bunch of new card requirements.

Ahhh for the 'good ol' days' when if you wanted a phone, it was from Western Electric, you rented it from Ma Bell (AT&T), and it was black with a dial on the front of it.

Life was so much simpler then......


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## SMHarman (Feb 12, 2014)

rleigh said:


> So if I understand this correctly, the news article headline *"All American Credit Cards Will Disappear In 2015 And Be Replaced With This New Tech"* is incorrect, inaccurate, misleading, etc.
> 
> This isn't just "credit cards"'; it affects debit cards as well. And neither debit nor credit cards are going away, they're just smaller.
> 
> Again, if I understand correctly....


It's also incorrect to call this NEW tech.  This was first rolled out in 1992 in France, 15 years before the first generation iPhone was released.

The UK started trials of this tech in May 2003 and rolled out in 2004, 10 years ago and 3 years before the first iPhone.

In 2004 100 other countries should have been using this tech, thats a decade ago.

So to call this NEW is more stoopid than calling the 1st Generation iPhone NEW tech.


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## SMHarman (Feb 12, 2014)

Passepartout said:


> They look pretty much the same except they have a chip embedded in them- like your newest passport. They are ever so slightly thicker to accommodate the chip. They also have the traditional magnetic stripe, and may or may not have the embossed raised numbers.
> 
> Visa and Master Card have said they will replace _all_ of their cards (credit or debit) by Oct of 2015. We can only hope that they 'see the light' or get sufficient pressure to make them operate with a PIN instead of a signature.
> 
> Jim


Chip and Signature has most of the drawbacks of swipe and signature (especially as the mag strip is still on the card) and none of the benefits.

Chip and pin is two factor authentication, something you have (the card) and something you know (the pin).  Chip and signature is well something you have and something nobody looks at anyway.



ScoopLV said:


> I don't think the banks need to see the light -- the chip costs the same whether it's chip and pin or chip and signature. The merchants need to see the light, because they're the ones who will need to update their point of sale hardware.
> 
> Reading this thread makes me realize that it's probably a good bet to invest in companies which manufacture point of sale credit card readers.



Symbol, now a Motorola company, now a Google company (or was it spun back out) is a big provider of this stuff.


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## beejaybeeohio (Feb 12, 2014)

*ATM not the perfect solution*

Never knew an ATM to give coins- which was what we needed in Pisa- had plenty of Euro bills, though.

Also experienced the unmanned credit card only gas station dilemma- about 3 miles from CDG!!


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## CarolF (Feb 12, 2014)

beejaybeeohio said:


> Never knew an ATM to give coins- which was what we needed in Pisa- had plenty of Euro bills, though.
> 
> Also experienced the unmanned credit card only gas station dilemma- about 3 miles from CDG!!



Australia's smallest note is $5 and I haven't seen an ATM dispense coins either, although the terminals at supermarkets do.

London buses are to become cashless this coming summer.   The cashless trend is obviously moving to cities as well.


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## Passepartout (Feb 13, 2014)

We may have beat this dead horse for all it's worth, but here's an article from the Today show on chip/PIN vs. chip/signature. 

http://www.today.com/money/pin-or-signature-which-card-smarter-2D12100076

I'm hoping the powers who control such things will see the light and can be lead- by the nose if necessary into the 21st century

Jim


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## falmouth3 (Mar 17, 2014)

We're planning a trip to Germany this summer.  I have always used my credit union  ATM/Debit card to get cash from the ATMs in Europe.  I called today and they don't have a chip card available.  So I call Bank of America and I'm going to get a chip credit card sent to me.  However, if I use it, at an ATM, it will be like a cash advance.  Hmm.  That will probably end up costing me a bunch.  Is it possible that my magnetic stripe card will still work at an ATM?  Or should I plan to bring over a bunch of cash?  We will be on a tourist route, but planning to stay at B&Bs.


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## SMHarman (Mar 17, 2014)

If the Credit Card has a Credit balance - you pre load it with cash - then there is no cash advance and no cash advance fee.

And reading the news today that most ATMs are still running Windows XP, I don't think the ATMs use the Chip but use the mag strip (someone please correct me if I am wrong).  So it is posible you can use a mag strip debit card for ATMs.


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## Ken555 (Mar 17, 2014)

falmouth3 said:


> We're planning a trip to Germany this summer.  I have always used my credit union  ATM/Debit card to get cash from the ATMs in Europe.  I called today and they don't have a chip card available.  So I call Bank of America and I'm going to get a chip credit card sent to me.  However, if I use it, at an ATM, it will be like a cash advance.  Hmm.  That will probably end up costing me a bunch.  Is it possible that my magnetic stripe card will still work at an ATM?  Or should I plan to bring over a bunch of cash?  We will be on a tourist route, but planning to stay at B&Bs.




That doesn't sound correct to me. Call back and talk with a different rep. There must be an ATM solution that does not involve cash advance fees (which would be applicable for an ATM withdrawal for a credit card, so I suspect there is some confusion during your conversation with the rep).


Sent from my iPad


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## ScoopKona (Mar 17, 2014)

falmouth3 said:


> We're planning a trip to Germany this summer.  I have always used my credit union  ATM/Debit card to get cash from the ATMs in Europe.  I called today and they don't have a chip card available.  So I call Bank of America and I'm going to get a chip credit card sent to me.  However, if I use it, at an ATM, it will be like a cash advance.  Hmm.  That will probably end up costing me a bunch.  Is it possible that my magnetic stripe card will still work at an ATM?  Or should I plan to bring over a bunch of cash?  We will be on a tourist route, but planning to stay at B&Bs.



Germany is essentially a cashless society. They have cash, sure -- mostly for private transactions. I can do a month-long trip and not need a single pfennig (OK, that's dating myself -- one socialist Eurocent). Everything works with a card -- but make sure it's chip-and-pin. 

There are plenty of hotels, restaurants, B&Bs and similar that will happy take your US bank card. No problems at all. But there are ALSO plenty of places that WON'T take it. And if you don't have chip-and-pin, you had better have cash because there is no way, no how they are taking your plastic. That's that. And good luck figuring out which is which. You can't buy a train ticket without a modern bankcard, but the restaurant in the middle of Nowhere, Schwartzwald still takes Diner's Club. Go figure.

Last time I was in Germany, it was basically a 50-50 chance my card would work. Today, I'd guess it's more like 70-30 against.


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## falmouth3 (Mar 17, 2014)

Ken555 said:


> That doesn't sound correct to me. Call back and talk with a different rep. There must be an ATM solution that does not involve cash advance fees (which would be applicable for an ATM withdrawal for a credit card, so I suspect there is some confusion during your conversation with the rep).



That information seems to be correct because the card I will be getting is a credit card, not an ATM card.


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## falmouth3 (Mar 17, 2014)

About 2 years ago a colleague and I traveled to Finland.  The ticket office at the train starion was having a problem so they told us to buy tickets on the train.  On the train from Turku to Helsinki, my American credit card got stuck in their card reader.  The conductor had to pry it out with pliers.  My ride was no charge.  When my colleague offered his card, the conductor just smiled at him and told us both to have a nice trip.


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## ScoopKona (Mar 17, 2014)

falmouth3 said:


> On the train from Turku to Helsinki, my American credit card got stuck in their card reader.  The conductor had to pry it out with pliers.



We are falling behind in so many ways. This is one that we all notice (if we travel). We cannot rely on the world to follow our lead anymore. We do so at our own grave peril.


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