# Starwood Expansion



## tomandrobin (Jul 23, 2007)

Went to the StarCentral site tonight. First time in months. Saw the update on expansion projects. I am looking forward to the Mexico and Aruba resorts. I have not seen much about the Cabo location. It seems its going to be part of the starwood system.

Growth, Expansion, Development
10 Projects in the Pipeline 

You can look forward to no less than 10 resort projects, spanning from sun-quenched Hawai'i to summery Florida and the best locales in between. The growth means new and expanded destination options for you, your guests and family. 

The Westin Lagunamar Ocean Resort, Cancún, Mexico - Our landmark property in Latin America just marked the completion of the structural framework of the first four buildings, which includes 66 of the 295 planned villas and the reception building. The grand opening is scheduled for June 2008.

The Westin Los Cabos Ocean Villas, Los Cabos, Mexico - Initial site work, including land clearing and foundation preparation, began in April and is actively underway. The resort, adjacent to The Westin Resort & Spa, Los Cabos, overlooking the Sea of Cortez, is expected to announce the commencement of on-site sales soon. 

The Westin Princeville Ocean Resort Villas, Kaua'i, Hawai'i - The most advanced buildings in phase one of construction are transitioning out of scaffolding and into interior finishes. Sales of the 179 villas for our first resort on Kaua'i began in February 2006 out of several locations, including the Princeville Resort hotel. 

The Westin Ka'anapali Ocean Resort Villas North, Maui, Hawai'i - The first phase of this long-anticipated, 258-villa Hawaiian paradise will open in July, as the finishing touches are being applied now. The second phase is expected to ring in the holidays in December, followed by the opening of a spa in January 2008, the first in a Starwood Vacation Ownership resort. 

The Westin Aruba Ocean Villas, Palm Beach, Aruba - Construction of this 152-villa getaway is expected to commence soon. The resort, which will include a pool, pool bar and marketessan, is adjacent to The Westin Aruba Resort & Spa, which is recently renovated.

The Westin Riverfront Mountain Villas, Avon, Colorado - This 113-villa resort was announced in January in conjunction with The Westin Riverfront Resort & Spa hotel. Sales kick off in 2008 and you'll enjoy full access to all hotel amenities, including concierge services, a ski valet and gondola as well as a bike trail fronting Eagle River. 

The Westin Desert Willow Villas, Palm Desert, California - Preconstruction sales will begin in August for the second Westin resort in the Palm Desert area. Approximately 300 villas are planned with an anticipated opening in fall 2009. 

The Westin St. John Resort & Villas, St. John, U.S. Virgin Islands - The conversion of hotel rooms in seven buildings to 54 villas is well underway. Four buildings are currently under construction, and teams are working diligently to complete the transformation in time for occupancy this winter. The additional three buildings will follow soon after. 

Sheraton Vistana Villages, Orlando, Florida - One of our largest resorts is about to get bigger. We're adding four buildings with 287 villas to our flagship resort with openings planned throughout 2008 and 2009. 

Sheraton Broadway Plantation, Myrtle Beach, South Carolina - The first of three new buildings is set to begin occupancy in mid-August. Ground was recently broken on the other two, which are scheduled to open in 2008. Sales information for the newest buildings is forthcoming.


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## LisaRex (Jul 23, 2007)

More locations will hopefully bring more flexibility for those StarOptions.  Keep 'em coming, Starwood. 

(How about Europe??)


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## tomandrobin (Jul 24, 2007)

Europe would be really nice to see. Another thing I was thinking about is why there are not any Westin timeshares on the East Coast. Out of the four in the US, none are ocen front or ocean view, only one is a golf resort.


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## Ken555 (Jul 24, 2007)

tomandrobin said:


> Europe would be really nice to see. Another thing I was thinking about is why there are not any Westin timeshares on the East Coast. Out of the four in the US, none are ocen front or ocean view, only one is a golf resort.



Why not count Sheraton? They're part of SVN... 

Sheraton PGA in Port St Lucie
Sheraton Broadway Plantation in Myrtle Beach

And, of course, the Vistana's in Orlando. These are certainly on the East Coast, if not on the ocean. The PGA resort in Port St Lucie can't be far from water, though.

That said, I agree there should be more on the east coast. And, I certainly agree there should be resorts in Europe.


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## sharktzu (Jul 24, 2007)

I would like to see The Big Island, Europe (italy), Costa Rica, and Tahiti as expansion locations, not necessarily in that order. Of these, only the Big Island seems likely in the near future. Starwood may slow up though with all these new projects to sell.


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## tomandrobin (Jul 24, 2007)

Ken555 said:


> Why not count Sheraton? They're part of SVN...
> 
> Sheraton PGA in Port St Lucie
> Sheraton Broadway Plantation in Myrtle Beach
> ...



Sheraton and Westin are not the same level of resort.

Sheraton PGA is a golf resort which does give this resort a better standing, but it is not on the ocean. 

Vistana et al in Orlando are mostly built for the theme parks and is an hour drive to the beach.

Broadway Plantation is also a nice resort, but is not on the beach. You still have to load up your car and head down to the beach, not very convient. I rather pay money and rent a room in a hotel/condo on the beach, then have to drive to the beach (if I can find parking). 

There are tons of possibilities to have a beachfront property along the east coast. Marriott, Fairfield, DVC, Westgate, etc all have ocean front properties.


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## LisaRex (Jul 24, 2007)

Absolutely agree tomandrobin.  If I'm going to vacation at an oceanside community, I want to be on the ocean.  The sole reason we paid $50k for our WKORV-N OF villa was because we can't afford that million dollar view year round.

The outer banks, the Georgia coast, one of Florida's up and coming islands...there are tons of possibilities.


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## tomandrobin (Jul 24, 2007)

If Broadway Plantation was an ocean front resort, we would have bought into the resort years ago. We almost bought at the Marriott in Myrtle Beach, but they could not fit us in to do the tour.....go figure! We would have been an easy sale, but as fate has it, we went to Arizona and bought at the Kierland later that year instead of the Marriott.


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## myip (Jul 24, 2007)

tomandrobin said:


> The Westin Los Cabos Ocean Villas, Los Cabos, Mexico - Initial site work, including land clearing and foundation preparation, began in April and is actively underway. The resort, adjacent to The Westin Resort & Spa, Los Cabos, overlooking the Sea of Cortez, is expected to announce the commencement of on-site sales soon.
> 
> .



Where are they actually building this?  What about the current  Club Regina@Westin?  Are they taking over the sale of Raintree fractional unit?


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## BradC (Jul 25, 2007)

myip said:


> Where are they actually building this?  What about the current  Club Regina@Westin?  Are they taking over the sale of Raintree fractional unit?


It's the former Grand Regina, which is on the opposite side of the Westin Hotel from Club Regina.

More details are available in this thread.


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## Ken555 (Jul 25, 2007)

tomandrobin said:


> Sheraton and Westin are not the same level of resort.



Oh really? I haven't yet stayed at a Sheraton. The units look very similar - are they not comparable?


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## pointsjunkie (Jul 25, 2007)

the sheratons are as large and as nice as the westins. the only difference there is not a hotel next to a sheraton so you have the resort feel. but that looks like it is going to change in the near future.


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## tomandrobin (Jul 25, 2007)

pointsjunkie said:


> the sheratons are as large and as nice as the westins. the only difference there is not a hotel next to a sheraton so you have the resort feel. but that looks like it is going to change in the near future.



There is an "upgrade" to the Westin units over the Sheraton units. Not saying the Sheraton unit are not nice or the resorts are not nice, but not on the same level. 

Sheraton is the second lowest chain in the Starwood system, only above Four Points Hotels. St Regis and the Luxury Collection sits at the top of the Starwood System. The other four chains in the middle are Wesin, Le Meridian, W, and e-lofts...no particular order for the middle resorts.


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## djp (Jul 25, 2007)

I have only actaully seen two sheraton resorts....Vistana villages and Mountain Vista where we own. I would place those two resorts on par with your average Marriott timeshare. I have also been to WKORV and Kierland and in seeing those I would say IMO the westins are slightly nicer than your average marriott. So IMO the Westins are slightly nicer than the sheratons, but it is certainly not so big a deal that one would want to not factor in the sheratons as viable uses of ones staroptions....especially as most (with exception of mountain vista and desert oasis) of the sheraton properties require less staroptions than the westin properties in comparable seasons. In terms of the comparison of the Starwood hotel chains....if you search in a given city it is possible that you will see westins costing more than luxury collection hotels, and the occasional sheraton costing more than a Westin....and on average if the 4 points is $150, the sheraton may be $210, and the Westin $240. Westin is definitely a step up, but not a big one...we are not comparing the econo lodge with the 4 seasons here. These are not big differences.


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## tomandrobin (Jul 25, 2007)

djp said:


> I have only actaully seen two sheraton resorts....Vistana villages and Mountain Vista where we own. I would place those two resorts on par with your average Marriott timeshare. I have also been to WKORV and Kierland and in seeing those I would say IMO the westins are slightly nicer than your average marriott. So IMO the Westins are slightly nicer than the sheratons, but it is certainly not so big a deal that one would want to not factor in the sheratons as viable uses of ones staroptions....especially as most (with exception of mountain vista and desert oasis) of the sheraton properties require less staroptions than the westin properties in comparable seasons. In terms of the comparison of the Starwood hotel chains....if you search in a given city it is possible that you will see westins costing more than luxury collection hotels, and the occasional sheraton costing more than a Westin....and on average if the 4 points is $150, the sheraton may be $210, and the Westin $240. Westin is definitely a step up, but not a big one...we are not comparing the econo lodge with the 4 seasons here. These are not big differences.



I agree that the "upgrade" in hotels/resorts are by degrees, not leaps and bounds. I do agree that the Sheraton and Marriott resorts, on average, are equal footing. The Westins are a notch above the Marriott's. 

If you look at the staroption chart on the mycentral site, the PDF that shows the weekly options are color coded by season in each resort. But you will also notice the colors coded overall by the chart. The deep reds are only consistant on peak weeks, at the peak resorts. Al lof the Westins have red catagories. Only three of the Sheartons have red, all at the peak season of those resorts.


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## stevens397 (Jul 25, 2007)

We stayed at Club Regina in Cabo in Feb, 2006 and toured Grand Regina.  It's like no timeshare you've ever seen - absolutely magnificent and top, top shelf.  I checked it out because my business partner had purchased it a few months earlier.  They said they were fractionals with a two week minimum, but they sold him one Spring Break week.  He paid about $60,000 for it.  When he came home from vacation and told me, I thought he was nuts.   When I got there, I understood.

They said that he would be able to occupy this year but it seems the project ground to a halt.  The existing units are all open but the next building never took off.  It looks like Starwood rescued the project.  I can't imagine what the going rate will be for these.  And I dream of being able to trade into it!


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## califgal (Jul 25, 2007)

Although it's not an exotic location, I'd love to see a So. Cal beach location, so us folks in CA could have a drive to resort.  Palm Springs is 8 hrs plus from the bay area and too toasty in the summer!


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## Ken555 (Jul 25, 2007)

tomandrobin said:


> Sheraton is the second lowest chain in the Starwood system



I remember when Sheraton was considered to be a great hotel chain. You make it sound like that's no longer the case, when I know it's still very nice (at least, the Sheraton's I've been to in the last few years). Yes, Westin and others are much nicer. Is the connection between hotel "class" really the same when discussing their timeshare resorts?


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## tomandrobin (Jul 25, 2007)

Ken555 said:


> I remember when Sheraton was considered to be a great hotel chain. You make it sound like that's no longer the case, when I know it's still very nice (at least, the Sheraton's I've been to in the last few years). Yes, Westin and others are much nicer. Is the connection between hotel "class" really the same when discussing their timeshare resorts?



I think Sheratons are great resorts! Is there a big fifference between the two different branded timeshares.......I don't know. There is only one location that has a Westin and Sheraton in the same location and that's Arizona, SDO and WKV. There rest you can't compare.


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## formerhater (Jul 26, 2007)

Regarding the two hotel brands, it's generally accepted that Westin is a higher quality (and more expensive) brand than Sheraton.  Starwood has positioned them that way on purpose, just like they've positioned 4 Points below Sheraton and W, LC, and St. Regis above Westin.  Each are designed to appeal to different demographics with different levels of disposable income.  While there will always be exceptions to this (especially with some resort hotels), it's generally the case.  I imagine this is why the owners of the Moana Surfrider rebranded from Sheraton to Westin last month.

I haven't stayed at a lot of the SVN props yet so I can't speak to how this translates to timeshares, but I don't see why they wouldn't follow the branding model they use for the hotels.  Otherwise, what would be the point of building properties under different brands (other than to confuse customers and stir debate on discussion boards)?


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## djp (Jul 26, 2007)

i dont know if i belive that "W" is a higher category than a westin....i havent really thought of it that way...merely as a more modern chic feel and westin more traditional. I do accept that most Westins are a notch up from most sheratons....just not by a big margin. I have seen some internal starwood materials which do clarify that theyt are targetting a higher income and age level with the  Westin timeshares than the Sheratons....but as I said before the average sheraton timeshare is as good as the average marriott and the westin will be a bit nicer.


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## thinze3 (Jul 26, 2007)

tomandrobin said:


> I agree that the "upgrade" in hotels/resorts are by degrees, not leaps and bounds. I do agree that the Sheraton and Marriott resorts, on average, are equal footing. The Westins are a notch above the Marriott's.
> 
> If you look at the staroption chart on the mycentral site, the PDF that shows the weekly options are color coded by season in each resort. But you will also notice the colors coded overall by the chart. The deep reds are only consistant on peak weeks, at the peak resorts. Al lof the Westins have red catagories. Only three of the Sheartons have red, all at the peak season of those resorts.





Sorry, but I do not believe Sheraton is even close to the quality and service of a Westin. IMO Marriotts are a step above Sheraton but still a step below Westin.

I currently have a couple of deals in the works to trade my Marriott Waiohai for a Westin Kaanapali or a Westin St. John. These guys wouldn't return my call if I owned a Sheraton.

Sheraton in Maui is nice but no Marriott Maui. The Sheraton in Kauai is not even close to Marriott Kauai or Waiohai. Sheraton Vistana, again, not a Marriott.

Westin in Maui, just like the Westin hotels, is very very nice! I love those Heavenly beds and would trade into a Westin any day.


      --------   Don't bother the Monk seal :ignore:   --------


.


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## djp (Jul 27, 2007)

thinze3 said:


> Sorry, but I do not believe Sheraton is even close to the quality and service of a Westin. IMO Marriotts are a step above Sheraton but still a step below Westin.
> 
> I currently have a couple of deals in the works to trade my Marriott Waiohai for a Westin Kaanapali or a Westin St. John. These guys wouldn't return my call if I owned a Sheraton.
> 
> ...



your dialogue is unclear to me. You seem to weave in and out of talking about hotels one moment and timeshares the next. Have you eve been to the Sheraton Vistana Vilages...it is as nice as the orlando marriotts Ive seen. Have you seen the Sheraton Mountain vista? The units are nicer IMO than the Marriott TS in vail, and park city. Yes Westin timeshares are a bit nicer
than sheraton timeshares....and westin timeshares are a bit nicer than than marriott timeshares. I believe the sheraton timeshares are on par with the marriott. The pricepoint is similar at most locations. You comment that had you owned a sheraton you could never arrange a direct trade into the westins you had in mind.....well the point is you would not need to as you could trade directly using your staroptions if you owned a sheraton....as my "lowly" sheraton (I feel like white trash just saying it)  has gotten me 2br's at Westin maui and harborside.


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## LisaRex (Jul 27, 2007)

Like just about every franchise in the world, I think the individual management means more than the brand image.  I've been to McDonalds where the wait was twice as long for half the customers compared to other McDonalds in the same area.  And I've stayed at Hampton Inns which were tidier than some of the Renaissance hotels I've stayed at.  The difference is management and brand reputation cannot overcome poor management. Westin, Sheraton, Marriott -- I don't care what they're called, just give me a clean, comfortable, upkept hotel with friendly, responsive managers and I'll be a happy customer.


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## mesamirage (Jul 27, 2007)

djp said:


> Yes Westin timeshares are a bit nicer
> than sheraton timeshares....and westin timeshares are a bit nicer than than marriott timeshares. I believe the sheraton timeshares are on par with the marriott.


 
HEY!!  What about Hyatt!!  

Since I biased... I will give my opinion... I own Westin, Sheraton, AND Hyatt... and while IMO Hyatt is just a notch below Westin, I would now have to argue the last 3-4 Hyatts and the ones that are coming online are at the level of Westin.... ohh and they have an online reservation system that actually works... no 5am calls.

Wow the new Aspen and now the units they put in Beaver Creek Park Hyatt are AMAZING!

http://www.theresidencesatparkhyatt.com/ParkHyatt/residences.aspx

Staying in a 3 bedroom later this year..  its like 2600 sq ft!!

Steve


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## tomandrobin (Jul 27, 2007)

mesamirage said:


> HEY!!  What about Hyatt!!
> 
> Since I biased... I will give my opinion... I own Westin, Sheraton, AND Hyatt... and while IMO Hyatt is just a notch below Westin, I would now have to argue the last 3-4 Hyatts and the ones that are coming online are at the level of Westin.... ohh and they have an online reservation system that actually works... no 5am calls.
> 
> ...



SHHHHH!!!! Don't be posting things like that! My wife might read it and next thing I we'll be buying a Hyatt soon!


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## mesamirage (Jul 27, 2007)

tomandrobin said:


> SHHHHH!!!! Don't be posting things like that! My wife might read it and next thing I we'll be buying a Hyatt soon!


 
I'm looking at your list of resorts... yep.. your missing a Hyatt! Guess I should send an email to your profile and hope your wife receives it and can get you on the right track....

When we purchased Kierland my wife was like "Why wouldn't we just by another Hyatt? we like Hyatt" Guess I know who is the boss... now our Kierland week is up for sale in the classifieds on TUG so we can get another Hyatt... I wish I had a vote!

Steve


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## tomandrobin (Jul 27, 2007)

mesamirage said:


> I'm looking at your list of resorts... yep.. your missing a Hyatt! Guess I should send an email to your profile and hope your wife receives it and can get you on the right track....
> 
> When we purchased Kierland my wife was like "Why wouldn't we just by another Hyatt? we like Hyatt" Guess I know who is the boss... now our Kierland week is up for sale in the classifieds on TUG so we can get another Hyatt... I wish I had a vote!
> 
> Steve



We actually visited the Hyatt in Sedona Pinon Pointe before we went to the Kierland. We didn't like the Hyatt Resort at that location as much, compared to Kierland.


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## thinze3 (Jul 27, 2007)

djp said:


> your dialogue is unclear to me. You seem to weave in and out of talking about hotels one moment and timeshares the next. Have you eve been to the Sheraton Vistana Vilages...it is as nice as the orlando marriotts Ive seen. Have you seen the Sheraton Mountain vista? The units are nicer IMO than the Marriott TS in vail, and park city. Yes Westin timeshares are a bit nicer
> than sheraton timeshares....and westin timeshares are a bit nicer than than marriott timeshares. I believe the sheraton timeshares are on par with the marriott. The pricepoint is similar at most locations. You comment that had you owned a sheraton you could never arrange a direct trade into the westins you had in mind.....well the point is you would not need to as you could trade directly using your staroptions if you owned a sheraton....as my "lowly" sheraton (I feel like white trash just saying it)  has gotten me 2br's at Westin maui and harborside.




Sorry. I did not mean to offend anyone, I just read the post and responded. Yes, I have been to all the places I mentioned, including the Vistana Villages. I stayed there a whole week in a 2BR unit. I traded my Christie Lodge in CO for it and would do it again for an even trade.


Maybe I am biased because I own Marriott. I HAVE NOT been to any Orlando Marriotts, but did see them when I was staying at the Vistana Villages. I have also been to Marriott Ocean Pointe in FL. Of all the ones I mentioned now and in my previous post, the Sheratons seemed to be nice, but just a smidgen down from the others.


I see that Mr. Hyatt just chimed in as well.
I would stay at the Kauai Hyatt any day of the week. We went to a Luau there. WOW was it beautiful!! I do not even know if it is a timeshare, but if the other Hyatt timeshares are similar, count me it!


.


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## mesamirage (Jul 27, 2007)

tomandrobin said:


> We actually visited the Hyatt in Sedona Pinon Pointe before we went to the Kierland. We didn't like the Hyatt Resort at that location as much, compared to Kierland.


 
Yes, I would agree that the Sedona location is VERY simple and not to scale of what I expect from Hyatt.  However... it is the best resort with by far the best location (based on view) in all Sedona.  Hyatt does tend to go with smaller more niche resorts.  We love the Tahoe, Carmel, Key West and the Colorado locations.  Breckenridge has a personal ski in ski out... and I guess the the new Park Hyatt units they warm your ski boots for ya...


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## saluki (Jul 27, 2007)

thinze3 said:


> I would stay at the Kauai Hyatt any day of the week. We went to a Luau there. WOW was it beautiful!! I do not even know if it is a timeshare, but if the other Hyatt timeshares are similar, count me it!.



Yes, the Grand Hyatt in Kauai is amazing but...it's a hotel. I stayed there last summer & loved it!

This presumably is a timeshare discussion comparing timeshare properties & the hotel references are just muddying the water.


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## mesamirage (Jul 27, 2007)

saluki said:


> Yes, the Grand Hyatt in Kauai is amazing but...it's a hotel. I stayed there last summer & loved it!
> 
> This presumably is a timeshare discussion comparing timeshare properties & the hotel references are just muddying the water.


 
I'm referring to only Hyatt timeshares... the new units at the Park Hyatt in Beaver creek are timeshares... they ripped out 2 floors in the Hotel and spent $20 million putting in like 14 extremely over the top Timeshare units.... only time Hyatt has done this type thing, sorta surprised us owners.  However the Park Hyatt is only a couple hundred yards from a full Hyatt Vacation Club Timeshare location that is also in Beaver Creek.

Not sure the fascination with Colorado for Hyatt... since we now have Breck, Beaver Creek, Aspen, and the new Park Hyatt units... plus there is suppose to be another resort being built Snowmass Village... maybe its the $60K-$80K per week and up they have been demanding in these locations that is driving Hyatt to continue to build there.


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## thinze3 (Jul 29, 2007)

mesamirage said:


> I'm referring to only Hyatt timeshares... the new units at the Park Hyatt in Beaver creek are timeshares... they ripped out 2 floors in the Hotel and spent $20 million putting in like 14 extremely over the top Timeshare units.... only time Hyatt has done this type thing, sorta surprised us owners.......



Is this similar to what Four Seasons has done? I believe they have taken portions of their hotels to sell fractional ownership throughout.

They are building the mother of all fractional ownerships in Vail. A few units will be sold as full ownership, while most will be sold in four week increments starting at $360K. Full ownership units start at $7M, $3000/sf !!!


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## LisaRex (Jul 31, 2007)

So how many properties does SVO need to build before we get our own dedicated folder?  I'm surprised HGVC doesn't have one already.


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