# DC point increase from 2016-2017



## nanceetom (Feb 13, 2016)

I'm probally not as up with the DC points and as knowleable, but just noticed from the destination chart on their new web page that to go to Ko Olina, DC using  DC points for a one bedroom PH mountain view in 2016 is 2675 for an October week.  The same  October dates for 2017, are 2975.  Now, I know the points allocated to our weeks from the Marriot will never change (up), but it seems the option for using DC points, is a moving target option.  Somewhere, I remember, being told that most likely wouldn't happen?


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## StevenTing (Feb 13, 2016)

They can change the allocation within the resort.  So that means if the PH Mountain went up by 300 points, something else had to go down to compensate for the change.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## SueDonJ (Feb 13, 2016)

nanceetom said:


> I'm probally not as up with the DC points and as knowleable, but just noticed from the destination chart on their new web page that to go to Ko Olina, DC using  DC points for a one bedroom PH mountain view in 2016 is 2675 for an October week.  The same  October dates for 2017, are 2975.  Now, I know the points allocated to our weeks from the Marriot will never change (up), but it seems the option for using DC points, is a moving target option.  Somewhere, I remember, being told that most likely wouldn't happen?



Since the DC inception there have been several reallocations to the DC Points Charts from year-to-year, usually in relation to holiday periods but also in relation to unit size, demand, etc.  The governing docs give MVW the right to make these reallocations providing that any increases must be offset elsewhere by decreases.  So far all reports to TUG of such offsets are that they're done within the individual resort calendars as opposed to in the overall chart.

(The governing docs appear to also give MVW the right to adjust the number of DC Points allotted to enrolled Weeks but as yet no such adjustments have been reported to TUG.)

Although the 2017 Points Chart isn't (yet?) available at the new website in the compilation form that many prefer, it appears that the adjustments you noticed have been in effect since the 2017 Chart was released.  This link is to the 2017 Points Chart that was previously captured by TUGger Davidvel; the Ko 'Olina pages match what is now currently available on the website in individual resort form.


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## dioxide45 (Feb 13, 2016)

Lets break it down to see where they took these points from or if they perhaps took them from another villa size. Each "use period" is from the points chart, 1 through 9.

MV PH 1BR
.................2016........2017
Use Period 1 -- 2,675.......2,975
Use Period 2 -- 3,025.......3,325
Use Period 3 -- 2,675.......2,925
Use Period 4 -- 3,200.......3,525
Use Period 5 -- 3,200.......3,525
Use Period 6 -- 3,025.......3,325
Use Period 7 -- 2,675.......2,950
Use Period 8 -- 3,200.......3,525
Use Period 9 -- 3,200.......3,525
Use Period 10 - 3,700.......4,075


So there you have it. For a MV PH 1BR unit, the prices are up across the board 300 DC points. Lets see if they took is from a different size unit.

MV PH Studio
.................2016........2017
Use Period 1 -- 1,875.......1,705
Use Period 2 -- 2,175.......1,970
Use Period 3 -- 1,875.......1,705
Use Period 4 -- 2,400.......2,160
Use Period 5 -- 2,400.......2,160
Use Period 6 -- 2,175.......1,960
Use Period 7 -- 1,875.......1,690
Use Period 8 -- 2,400.......2,160
Use Period 9 -- 2,400.......2,160
Use Period 10 - 2,625.......2,365


Changes look to be the same up and down across all views in the 1BR and studio units. So it looks like they at least took some of the points from the MV studio to allocate to the 1BR. I would suspect that they found demand for the 1BR units to be higher at their point levels than the studio units. So they upped the cost for 1BR and lowered it for studio units.

I suspect if we compare across the entire resort, the amount of DC points required to book is the same. I don't think that Marriott hasn't charted in to taking points from one resort to give to another, yet.


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## nanceetom (Feb 13, 2016)

As always, thank you.  We've owned for quite some time, but have just used the DP once, actually last week.  Knew I could get answers here!


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## dioxide45 (Feb 13, 2016)

Well, it doesn't look like the totals come to a zero sum. 

I compared across all use periods and unit types. Only the studio and 1BR were impacted. The cost to reserve a studio across all time periods went down 9,930 DC points. However the cost to reserve 1BR units went up 14,300. So where are they pulling the other 4,370 from?


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## BocaBoy (Feb 14, 2016)

dioxide45 said:


> Well, it doesn't look like the totals come to a zero sum.
> 
> I compared across all use periods and unit types. Only the studio and 1BR were impacted. The cost to reserve a studio across all time periods went down 9,930 DC points. However the cost to reserve 1BR units went up 14,300. So where are they pulling the other 4,370 from?



There are more studios than 1BRs at Ko Olina because there is also a studio in each 3BR unit (all of those are lockoffs).  I don't know if that is enough to account for the whole difference but it could be at least a partial explanation.

Another interesting thing is that the new points requirements are not all exact multiples of 25. I have not seen that before except in cases of the elite discounts for last minuted bookings.


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## dioxide45 (Feb 14, 2016)

BocaBoy said:


> There are more studios than 1BRs at Ko Olina because there is also a studio in each 3BR unit (all of those are lockoffs).  I don't know if that is enough to account for the whole difference but it could be at least a partial explanation.
> 
> Another interesting thing is that the new points requirements are not all exact multiples of 25. I have not seen that before except in cases of the elite discounts for last minuted bookings.



That could very well explain it. The balance in the end is probably the same. I found it interesting too that everything wasn't a multiple of 25. People will have a few more orphan points as a result.


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## GregT (Feb 14, 2016)

dioxide45 said:


> Well, it doesn't look like the totals come to a zero sum.
> 
> I compared across all use periods and unit types. Only the studio and 1BR were impacted. The cost to reserve a studio across all time periods went down 9,930 DC points. However the cost to reserve 1BR units went up 14,300. So where are they pulling the other 4,370 from?



That is interesting, were all Studio units impacted or just the Penthouse units?

Thx for the investigation.

Best,

Greg


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## dioxide45 (Feb 14, 2016)

Greg, All studio units in all use periods went down in cost anywhere from 170 to 370 DC points. All 1BRs went up anywhere from 325 to 550 DC points. The impact was across all views.


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## GregT (Feb 14, 2016)

dioxide45 said:


> Greg, All studio units in all use periods went down in cost anywhere from 170 to 370 DC points. All 1BRs went up anywhere from 325 to 550 DC points. The impact was across all views.



Dioxide, thank you.

All, I think this is a pretty significant departure.  If every unit now potentially requires ~100 additional points to reserve (on average) and there are XX lock-off units at Ko Olina (500?), and there are 50 weeks in the year, then it would now require an additional 2.5M points to book each segment.

Granted, many weeks will be booked either as traditional weeks by week owners, or as intact 2BR units, but this is the first concrete example of points inflation that I can think of.  The decrease in Studios doesn't compensate for the increase in 1BRs, but because the 2BRs are unchanged (which is the backbone of the points chart), Marriott can correctly argue that the points chart hasn't changed, only the demand curve for the component units.

Interesting.  We may see this again with other properties, where 1BR units are re-valued at a higher rate (commensurate with demand) than the de-valuation of the Studio units.  This isn't shocking to me, as in HGVC a 1BR is 4,800 points and a Studio is 2,200 points, reflecting the relative desirability of 1BR units.

The benefit (for those of us that thrive on complicated reservation strategies) is that it is now cheaper to construct a 2BR unit at Ko Olina, if we can trade a 1BR for a 1BR, and then book a matching Studio with less points.

Best,

Greg

Edited: corrected the error in average points -- it approximates closer to 100 points per unit than the original 400


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## Bnov (Feb 14, 2016)

*Point Totals for Resorts Are Fixed*



dioxide45 said:


> I suspect if we compare across the entire resort, the amount of DC points required to book is the same. I don't think that Marriott hasn't charted in to taking points from one resort to give to another, yet.



To your point, Dioxide, I have an early document from Marriott that affirms your assertion that the amount of DC points across the entire resort must remain the same:  "Marriott has calculated the number of Points needed to stay each day at a resort for all unit sizes and views. *Marriott then calculated the TOTAL number of Points for a resort and that number is fixed for life of the resort. Marriott can however, shift Points around to reflect the reality of supply and demand. Expect the Points Calendars to change yearly based upon last year’s activity*."


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## dioxide45 (Feb 14, 2016)

Bnov said:


> To your point, Dioxide, I have an early document from Marriott that affirms your assertion that the amount of DC points across the entire resort must remain the same:  "Marriott has calculated the number of Points needed to stay each day at a resort for all unit sizes and views. *Marriott then calculated the TOTAL number of Points for a resort and that number is fixed for life of the resort. Marriott can however, shift Points around to reflect the reality of supply and demand. Expect the Points Calendars to change yearly based upon last year’s activity*."



I think Greg has actually hit the nail on the head. The underlying units are really the 2BR and 3BR units. They haven't touched the point values of those. For all properties, the individual components of the 2BR and 3BR lock off units cost more than reserving a single 2BR or 3BR unit. So Marriott has inflated the cost of the individual components at Ko'Olina without really impacting the overall point requirements of the entire property.


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## davidvel (Feb 14, 2016)

dioxide45 said:


> I think Greg has actually hit the nail on the head. The underlying units are really the 2BR and 3BR units. They haven't touched the point values of those. For all properties, the individual components of the 2BR and 3BR lock off units cost more than reserving a single 2BR or 3BR unit. So Marriott has inflated the cost of the individual components at Ko'Olina without really impacting the overall point requirements of the entire property.



Is this new? That's tricky,  and intuitively seems wrong.


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## dioxide45 (Feb 14, 2016)

davidvel said:


> Is this new? That's tricky,  and intuitively seems wrong.



The sum of the two parts of a lock off costing more than the total whole unit is not new. It has been that way since inception. The increase at Ko'Olina is a first. I checked a few other properties and did not see this same thing at any of them.

The cost of a 1BR + a studio was considered a skim on top of the skim very early on with DC. In the Ko'Olina example. A studio and 1BR MV would have cost 4550 to book separately in 2016 for the first use period. A single 2BR MV cost only 4050 in 2016 for the same period. That gap has widened by 80 points for 2017.


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## davidvel (Feb 15, 2016)

dioxide45 said:


> The sum of the two parts of a lock off costing more than the total whole unit is not new. It has been that way since inception. The increase at Ko'Olina is a first. I checked a few other properties and did not see this same thing at any of them.
> 
> The cost of a 1BR + a studio was considered a skim on top of the skim very early on with DC. In the Ko'Olina example. A studio and 1BR MV would have cost 4550 to book separately in 2016 for the first use period. A single 2BR MV cost only 4050 in 2016 for the same period. That gap has widened by 80 points for 2017.


Now its coming back to me. I didn't pay too close attention to those early threads as I was not in DC then. Thanks Dioxide.

I guess there is some logic due to the added expenses breaking up a week.


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## tschwa2 (Feb 15, 2016)

I too remember that from Manor club from the beginning now that this is coming up.  Owners have to deposit the full unit for dc points they can't deposit the studio and save the 1 br for person use of II exchange.  I guess you are paying a lock off fee using points instead of dollars when you book the partial full unit.

studio 1,175
1 br    1,675
2 br   2,500

Does this mean they couldn't do it in places that sold smaller stand alone units vs only selling the full lock off unit?


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## dioxide45 (Feb 15, 2016)

tschwa2 said:


> I too remember that from Manor club from the beginning now that this is coming up.  Owners have to deposit the full unit for dc points they can't deposit the studio and save the 1 br for person use of II exchange.  I guess you are paying a lock off fee using points instead of dollars when you book the partial full unit.
> 
> studio 1,175
> 1 br    1,675
> ...



I don't know. I know that Grande Vista sold 1BR dedicated units as well as the 2BR lock off that splits in to a 1BR and a studio. So it might be harder for them to make this kind of change at Grande Vista given that some 1BR units make up the underlying inventory. They may have similar issues at other Hawaii properties such as Maui Ocean Club and Kauai Beach Club.


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## alexadeparis (Feb 15, 2016)

davidvel said:


> Is this new? That's tricky,  and intuitively seems wrong.



DVC does the same thing also.


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## BocaBoy (Feb 16, 2016)

GregT said:


> All, I think this is a pretty significant departure......The decrease in Studios doesn't compensate for the increase in 1BRs.


So you have apparently done the math to verify that this is true, given that there are more potential studios than 1 BR units at the resort?  Intuitively, it seemed to me that perhaps this accounted for the difference, given that all 3BR units at the resort have a studio without a compensating 1BR portion, plus the fact that there are very few 2 BR lockoffs (with studios) in Naia, which is a large tower.  I had thought that maybe the reason there are no longer only exact multiples of 25 points in the Ko Olina points chart was due to the need to make the change come out as a wash.


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## dioxide45 (Feb 16, 2016)

BocaBoy said:


> So you have apparently done the math to verify that this is true, given that there are more potential studios than 1 BR units at the resort?  Intuitively, it seemed to me that perhaps this accounted for the difference, given that all 3BR units at the resort have a studio without a compensating 1BR portion, plus the fact that there are very few 2 BR lockoffs (with studios) in Naia, which is a large tower.  I had thought that maybe the reason there are no longer only exact multiples of 25 points in the Ko Olina points chart was due to the need to make the change come out as a wash.



I think Greg's point is that the number of 1BR and studio units mean nothing. It is the 2BR and 3BR units that make up the core or underlying inventory at Ko'Olina. So as long as they keep the points for those a wash, they are covered. Also consider that the sum of the two parts has always cost more than the whole. Since Marriott didn't change any point values related to the 2BR and 3BR units, they have really not changed the overall makeup. They have just increased the "fee" to book a lock off with points.

We could still do the math as I would be interested to know if it somehow comes out to a wash. Does anyone know how many 2BR lock offs and 3BR lock off units are at Ko'Olina?


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## BocaBoy (Feb 16, 2016)

dioxide45 said:


> I think Greg's point is that the number of 1BR and studio units mean nothing. It is the 2BR and 3BR units that make up the core or underlying inventory at Ko'Olina. So as long as they keep the points for those a wash, they are covered. Also consider that the sum of the two parts has always cost more than the whole. Since Marriott didn't change any point values related to the 2BR and 3BR units, they have really not changed the overall makeup. They have just increased the "fee" to book a lock off with points.
> 
> We could still do the math as I would be interested to know if it somehow comes out to a wash. Does anyone know how many 2BR lock offs and 3BR lock off units are at Ko'Olina?



Yes, I understand Greg's point, but I am not convinced from a casual look at the numbers that the total points required have necessarily increased if you assume all lock off units are booked in their smaller components.  I could be wrong, of course.  And perhaps when they allocate the points they are also considering the number and types of units that will be in the 4th tower?  I am just speculating, but on the surface I see nothing alarming here for DC points users in the aggregate.  

I don't know the numbers, except that the entire resort is ultimately supposed to have 750 units, and that there are approximately as many 3 BR units in Naia as 2BR lock offs, so Naia is probably a net decrease in points from this change.  We probably can't really do the numbers with conviction without knowing the configurations in the 4th tower.


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## GregT (Feb 16, 2016)

dioxide45 said:


> We could still do the math as I would be interested to know if it somehow comes out to a wash. Does anyone know how many 2BR lock offs and 3BR lock off units are at Ko'Olina?



Okay, these are estimated numbers, based on looking at the view layouts, but I _think _there are 340 2BR lock-offs in the three towers (173 in Moana, 124 in Kona and 42 in Naia).   There appear to be 40 3BR units in the three towers (14 in Moana, 26 in Naia -- half MV and half OV).

So, to keep the numbers simple, if we assume the 2BR units add a net 100 points (300 additional points for a 1BR, offset by 200 less points for a Studio), then the components of the 2BR require an additional 1.7M points (340 units X 50 weeks x 100 points).

Then there are the reduced points from the Studios from 3BR units -- which are each 200 points less now, for a total of 400K less points (40 units X 50 weeks X 200 points).

We don't yet know what would be in the fourth tower, but it would be need to be skewed heavily to 3BR lock-offs and dedicated 2BRs, needing ~130 3BR units to cover the existing 1.3M points difference (130 units X 50 weeks X 200 points).

So, I still believe that Marriott has increased the points requirement for the component units (which appear to be ~10% increase for 1BR and ~10% decrease for a Studio) which is an interesting precedent.  As Dioxide has mentioned, I'm happy to see that certain properties like MOC have fixed 1BR units already, so I think it would be harder to change the of a 1BR in MMO  (MM1 is a different story).

Interesting.

Best,

Greg


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## davidvel (Feb 16, 2016)

Still slowly digesting all of this. As I understand the history/summary from Dioxide, the component pieces (ie. less than a full deeded 2BR, 3BR) have always cost more than the full deeded interest (and have now gone up more.) The only requirement in the trust docs is that the point values for the full deeded interest remain balanced. 

So Marriott can increase the point requirements _ad infinitum_ for any pieces other than the core deeded interests, and dilute trust/enrolled points' value for reserving same. 

Is this accurate?


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## GregT (Feb 16, 2016)

davidvel said:


> Still slowly digesting all of this. As I understand the history/summary from Dioxide, the component pieces (ie. less than a full deeded 2BR, 3BR) have always cost more than the full deeded interest (and have now gone up more.)  Yes, the component pieces have always cost more than the full deeded interest, which was a controversial topic back when DClub was rolled out
> 
> The only requirement in the trust docs is that the point values for the full deeded interest remain balanced.  This is our assumption, that the point values for the full deeded interest remain balanced.  I believe that the requirement to balance is across the entire property, so 3BRs could be increased/decreased with the offset applied to 2BRs, and still the property would remain in balance.
> 
> ...



I replied above, but much of this remains speculation.

Best,

Greg


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## dioxide45 (Feb 16, 2016)

GregT said:


> Okay, these are estimated numbers, based on looking at the view layouts, but I _think _there are 340 2BR lock-offs in the three towers (173 in Moana, 124 in Kona and 42 in Naia).   There appear to be 40 3BR units in the three towers (14 in Moana, 26 in Naia -- half MV and half OV).
> 
> So, to keep the numbers simple, if we assume the 2BR units add a net 100 points (300 additional points for a 1BR, offset by 200 less points for a Studio), then the components of the 2BR require an additional 1.7M points (340 units X 50 weeks x 100 points).
> 
> ...



I don't think the new tower would have any impact on the pricing of the current units. I don't think Marriott could even take those in to consideration when pricing these units. In the end, whether the numbers come to a net balance of zero or not. The "skim" fee to book two individual portions of the 2BR lock off units has gone up. They have gone down a little bit on the 3BR lock off, but the numbers don't show a balance.


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## GregT (Feb 22, 2016)

All,

Something Dioxide said in a previous post here sparked a thought.  His point was that it was easier to make the adjustments to the Ko Olina 1BR and Studio component values because there weren't dedicated MKO 1BR units that would have "firm values" because of a value ascribed when that dedicated 1BR unit was deposited to the Trust.  Accordingly, Marriott had more freedom in adjusting point values to the 1BR and Studio component units.

So I was wondering what other properties that interest me also have only lock-off units and that do not have a dedicated 1BR to anchor that 1BR points requirement.  Maui Ocean Club (sequel) comes to mind, but Marriott didn't tweak the 1BR and Studio values for MOC (sequel) between 2017 and 2016.

But they did for Shadow Ridge, which is a desired getaway spot for me.

Interestingly, they decreased both the 1BR and Studio points requirements. A 1BR in prime season went from 2,675 points for a week in 2016 to 2,500 in 2017.  A Studio in the same period went from 1,900 points in 2016 to 1,725 in 2017.   And I can't find an offsetting increase.  As with MKO, the full week 2BR points values did not change at Shadow Ridge, but the components got cheaper.

Deflation.  Interesting.  

You may wish to think about your favorite resorts, and see if the 1BR and Studio component values are different in 2017 versus 2016 -- if so, please post the results in this thread.

Best,

Greg


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## BigMac (Sep 8, 2016)

*DC points increase at Ko Olina*

In July 2015 I got a 1 bedroom Mountain View at Ko Olina for 2825 points. That same room has now increased to 3025 points in 2016 and 3325 points in 2017.  The 2 bed and 3 bed points have not changed and actually the points for a studio have decreased slightly.
Did I miss the memo? When I signed up I thought they told me the point value for a resort/room would never increase.


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## SueDonJ (Sep 8, 2016)

BigMac said:


> In July 2015 I got a 1 bedroom Mountain View at Ko Olina for 2825 points. That same room has now increased to 3025 points in 2016 and 3325 points in 2017.  The 2 bed and 3 bed points have not changed and actually the points for a studio have decreased slightly.
> Did I miss the memo? When I signed up I thought they told me the point value for a resort/room would never increase.



They've made adjustments throughout the Points Charts every year, usually coinciding with floating holiday periods but also with respect to historical usage trends.  I believe that they must offset any increases with decreases elsewhere, as you've noticed with the studio units, but am not sure if the offsets must equalize within the Points Chart of each single resort or among all combined resorts.

On page 3 of the Exchange Procedures document (bolding theirs):

_"... III. PROGRAM OPERATION AND EXCHANGE POINTS ...B. 3.
... *Exchange Company will review the Exchange Point Schedule at least annually and amend the Exchange Point Schedule as necessary to maintain an equitable distribution of the usage requirements based on various factors such as relative daily and seasonal demand, Accommodation capacity, size, view, and furnishings, and other valuation parameters established by Exchange Company or as might be required by law. Any such modification to the Exchange Point Schedule shall not require approval by the Program Members or amendment of these Exchange Procedures. ...*"_


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## californiagirl (Sep 8, 2016)

That's correct, when there is an increase for one unit/season, there must be a decrease on another.  This is similar to the way Disney works.  With Disney there are a finite amount of points *per property* so one change triggers another.  I'm not sure if each resort has a finite allocation of points or if the entire trust is is play.  If it is the entire trust, then it would be no problem in repeatedly lowering say the mud weeks at Park City and raising the high demand holiday/summer weeks in places like Hawaii.


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## GregT (Sep 8, 2016)

BigMac said:


> In July 2015 I got a 1 bedroom Mountain View at Ko Olina for 2825 points. That same room has now increased to 3025 points in 2016 and 3325 points in 2017.  The 2 bed and 3 bed points have not changed and actually the points for a studio have decreased slightly.
> Did I miss the memo? When I signed up I thought they told me the point value for a resort/room would never increase.



We discussed this in a previous thread somewhere, and our theory is that because they didn't increase the cost for the 2BR, which is the backbone of the points per property, they were in compliance with their commitment to not increase the points value.

However, they definitely increased the 1BR (and decreased the Studio) and resulted in a net increase in overall points for the property.   I think Shadow Ridge did the same thing, in terms of increasing the 1BR point value.

I will see if I can find the thread.

Best,

Greg


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## Mr. Vker (Sep 8, 2016)

I cannot tell you how many time a DC points sales person said this would never happen.....


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## SueDonJ (Sep 8, 2016)

GregT said:


> We discussed this in a previous thread somewhere, and our theory is that because they didn't increase the cost for the 2BR, which is the backbone of the points per property, they were in compliance with their commitment to not increase the points value.
> 
> However, they definitely increased the 1BR (and decreased the Studio) and resulted in a net increase in overall points for the property.   I think Shadow Ridge did the same thing, in terms of increasing the 1BR point value.
> 
> ...



Thanks, Greg.  I found it and have merged the threads.


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## Cruiser Too (Sep 8, 2016)

Mr. Vker said:


> I cannot tell you how many time a DC points sales person said this would never happen.....


.

Never... say "Never" or "Always.
Tinkering with the DC points usually favors Marriott.
Now it take more "points" so... you have the honor of buying more "points".

This is EXACTLY why I *LOL* when offered to switch from "weeks" ownership.
A week is a week, is a week.


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## SueDonJ (Sep 8, 2016)

Doug.Kaya said:


> .
> 
> Never... say "Never" or "Always.
> Tinkering with the DC points usually favors Marriott.
> ...



But remember, Doug, "switching" from Weeks to DC Points would involve selling your Weeks and buying DC Trust Points.  That's not at all what "enrolling" Weeks in the DC system is - enrollment allows you to keep all of your Weeks benefits and protections while being able to access the DC system if that's what you want to do, when you want to do it.  One year you might use your Week in II with the II fees absorbed by your DC Club Dues fee, the next you might elect DC Points, the next use your Week at your home resort.  It's all about options.  

And as noted, where we've seen incidents of Points requirements being increased, we've seen those offset by decreases elsewhere.  (Whether those must equalize within individual resort Points Charts or among all combined is another question, as is the lock-off variable that Greg mentions ...)  So while some reservations may cost more Points year-to-year, others will cost less.  Savvy DC Members scour the charts to get the most out of their Points.

I don't disagree that the tinkering benefits Marriott; that's obvious when you look at only the adjustments for high-demand floating holiday periods.  But honestly, I expect them to take whatever advantage they can - the success of their business depends on it.


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## GregT (Sep 8, 2016)

GregT said:


> Okay, these are estimated numbers, based on looking at the view layouts, but I _think _there are 340 2BR lock-offs in the three towers (173 in Moana, 124 in Kona and 42 in Naia).   There appear to be 40 3BR units in the three towers (14 in Moana, 26 in Naia -- half MV and half OV).
> 
> So, to keep the numbers simple, if we assume the 2BR units add a net 100 points (300 additional points for a 1BR, offset by 200 less points for a Studio), then the components of the 2BR require an additional 1.7M points (340 units X 50 weeks x 100 points).
> 
> ...



I read some of my old threads and I do not know why TUGgers put up with me.


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## Cruiser Too (Sep 8, 2016)

Thanks for the additional info but...
I'm happy, happy, happy being a member of the Classic weeks program.

Doug


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## SueDonJ (Sep 8, 2016)

GregT said:


> I read some of my old threads and I do not know why TUGgers put up with me.



Other than you bringing math to every other thread I love reading you!


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## m61376 (Sep 8, 2016)

GregT said:


> I read some of my old threads and I do not know why TUGgers put up with me.


 :rofl:


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## mjm1 (Sep 8, 2016)

BigMac said:


> In July 2015 I got a 1 bedroom Mountain View at Ko Olina for 2825 points. That same room has now increased to 3025 points in 2016 and 3325 points in 2017.  The 2 bed and 3 bed points have not changed and actually the points for a studio have decreased slightly.
> Did I miss the memo? When I signed up I thought they told me the point value for a resort/room would never increase.



I guess I'm not surprised since the 1BR is likely in higher demand than a studio. I know when we stay there, we prefer the 1BR over the studio. I imagine the same thing could/would happen at other resorts if their experience is higher demand for the larger side.

Mike


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## cp73 (Sep 8, 2016)

Can you assume then they will continue raising the one bedroom points and lowering the lockout points until the demand equalizes and people are indifferent as to whether they stay in a one bedroom vs a studio due to the point difference? Probably. Maybe by 2020 it will costs 100 points for a week in a lockout.


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## Cruiser Too (Sep 9, 2016)

cp73 said:


> Can you assume then they will continue raising the one bedroom points and lowering the lockout points until the demand equalizes and people are indifferent as to whether they stay in a one bedroom vs a studio due to the point difference? Probably. Maybe by 2020 it will costs 100 points for a week in a lockout.



I can't imagine anyone being "indifferent" about staying in a studio or a one-Bdrm.  I prefer a one-Bdrm, over a studio, about 100 out of 100 times.


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## taterhed (Sep 9, 2016)

yes, I'd like to reserve a 1br and 2 studios please? Adjacent please.


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## SueDonJ (Sep 9, 2016)

taterhed said:


> yes, I'd like to reserve a 1br and 2 studios please? Adjacent please.



But will they guarantee adjacent placements?  You can hope but you can't expect it.


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## taterhed (Sep 9, 2016)

It was a joke really, three bedroom discount

sent from my cell phone...


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## pjohnston99 (May 10, 2017)

Hi, I'm new here.... I'm concerned about point degradation over time. We bought a 2-bedroom in Orlando under the old system, and bought an additional 1,000 points when we became an enrolled owner. I'm seeing increases in points required, and in fact, our original unit gives us 2,175 points when we convert to points, but at the same resort, same season we own, it is 2,500 if we were trading for it. Shouldn't Marriott be giving us the equivalent points? Or are we just SOL?

Also want to point out that when we purchased, we got 100,000 Marriott Rewards points when we chose that option, and it was down to 80,000 last time (maybe less now).

Trading through Interval seems to be the best deal.


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## JIMinNC (May 10, 2017)

Gr8tPyr said:


> Hi, I'm new here.... I'm concerned about point degradation over time. We bought a 2-bedroom in Orlando under the old system, and bought an additional 1,000 points when we became an enrolled owner. I'm seeing increases in points required, and in fact, our original unit gives us 2,175 points when we convert to points, but at the same resort, same season we own, it is 2,500 if we were trading for it. Shouldn't Marriott be giving us the equivalent points? Or are we just SOL?



The gap between the election value (2175) and the amount required to book (2500) has been there since the inception of the DC system. I've read some explanations as to why Marriott does this, but can't specifically recall for sure the reasons. My recollection was it may be because of the wastage that results when people use points to book shorter than 7 night says, leaving isolated days here and there orphaned and unused.


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## vacationtime1 (May 10, 2017)

Gr8tPyr said:


> Hi, I'm new here.... I'm concerned about point degradation over time. We bought a 2-bedroom in Orlando under the old system, and bought an additional 1,000 points when we became an enrolled owner. I'm seeing increases in points required, and in fact, our original unit gives us 2,175 points when we convert to points, but at the same resort, same season we own, it is 2,500 if we were trading for it. Shouldn't Marriott be giving us the equivalent points? Or are we just SOL?
> 
> Also want to point out that when we purchased, we got 100,000 Marriott Rewards points when we chose that option, and it was down to 80,000 last time (maybe less now).
> 
> Trading through Interval seems to be the best deal.



You can still reserve a week in your season; it must be the same size unit as you own during the season you own.  It would be a weeks reservation, not a points reservation (you would still have your 1000 additional points available).

But you are correct that Marriott takes a "skim" when you opt for points rather than using your week.  The good news is that that is entirely under your control.

If you use the search function on this BBS using the terms "skim" and "Marriott", you will find numerous discussions on the subject.


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## JIMinNC (May 10, 2017)

Gr8tPyr said:


> Hi, I'm new here.... I'm concerned about point degradation over time. We bought a 2-bedroom in Orlando under the old system, and bought an additional 1,000 points when we became an enrolled owner. I'm seeing increases in points required, and in fact, our original unit gives us 2,175 points when we convert to points, but at the same resort, same season we own, it is 2,500 if we were trading for it. Shouldn't Marriott be giving us the equivalent points? Or are we just SOL?



See this thread:  http://tugbbs.com/forums/index.php?threads/need-an-explanation-on-points.243195/#post-1899005

It provides a good discussion on the "skim" and can provide insight into theories on why you only get 2175 points for a week that costs 2500 to book.


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## TheTimeTraveler (May 11, 2017)

Another way Marriott looks at it:  "Profit".



.


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## SueDonJ (May 11, 2017)

Gr8tPyr said:


> Hi, I'm new here.... I'm concerned about point degradation over time. We bought a 2-bedroom in Orlando under the old system, and bought an additional 1,000 points when we became an enrolled owner. I'm seeing increases in points required, and in fact, our original unit gives us 2,175 points when we convert to points, but at the same resort, same season we own, it is 2,500 if we were trading for it. Shouldn't Marriott be giving us the equivalent points? Or are we just SOL?
> 
> Also want to point out that when we purchased, we got 100,000 Marriott Rewards points when we chose that option, and it was down to 80,000 last time (maybe less now).
> 
> Trading through Interval seems to be the best deal.



Others have explained the "skim" (as its known here on TUG) between how many DC Points an enrolled Week is allotted and how many it costs to book the same interval.  As they've said, if you want to use your Week as purchased you book it the same way and don't elect to convert it to DC Points for that use year.

About the MR Points, though?  I don't ever remember hearing about a Week's allotment being changed, either increased or decreased.  Can you tell us when the adjustment of your Week's value was made, and what explanation Marriott gave for the change?

(For what it's worth, as of 3/1/17 the MR Points value of purchased DC Trust Points has increased from 1DC=32MR to 1DC=40MR.)


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## Superchief (May 11, 2017)

So far, I have seen DC point increases for weekend nights and for 1BR units at several MVC resorts. However, the increased weekend nights were counterbalanced by decreases for the weeknights, resulting in the same total week costs for a base unit (2BR,3BR). So far, I haven't seen a point requirement increase for a 2BR villa for a full week during any time period at a specific resort. This leads me to believe that they aren't change the requirements for the base units, but are jacking up point costs for weekends and 1BR. Although this is annoying, I can work around it and actually benefit by reserving the weeknights, full 2BR, or studios.


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