# Just Won Shell Vacation Points- Need Advice Quick!



## rmb (Aug 17, 2007)

I could use some very good and quick advice from any 'experts' out there involved in the Shell Vacations Club system.  First, I believe I have a great deal on my hands... Arizona home club, 3700 points each March 1, maintenance fees of $768.  To boot, I would have to pay half of 2007 mf
($384) BUT would get all of 2007 points... 3700.  This all for $1275.00, plus $299 for closing and $200 transfer fee.

I understand the system in respects to banking it by November to carry it over the following year, having to use those carry over points by the next anniversary date otherwise bank them with RCI, etc.  Here is my concern:

Maintenance fees of $768 ANNUALLY to maintain 3700 points annually.  I own Pono Kai right now, EOY Even, and pay just over $800 ($400 each year) in mf, but do have to deal with II - membership, exchange fee, deposit, search and hope, etc. - but still, when all is said and done, I have a nice 2 br unit for a full week for basically the $800 + in some cases, the $139 exchange fee.

With this KCR purchase, again a steal, I believe, at 3700 points for $1275, I very well could be spending $1500 in mf over two years just to use it for a week and have some points left over to basically bank.

Couple of questions:  - is this a good deal?  I've checked some websites and this looks like a steal!   -Can I deposit a balance of unused points, say even 500 - 1000, into SVC RCI and keep them there for up to 2 years?  Could I ad the next year's points to this point deposit as well, in order to build up the number of points to use within the RCI 2 year period?  Example... deposit 500 prior to March 1 anniversary date, then add 3700 to the total once I get my points on March, which would be enough to cover a 1 bedroom request on RCI.  Do you have to have enough points in your deposit account to cover a 1 bedroom in order for them to do a search?  If you are short of the 3500 on RCI to cover a one bedroom week, do they make you purchase the needed points or borrow them from the next year?  Or can they just remain there sitting until you get enough in the account to cover a full week somewhere?

I truly believe the price is great... but the annual membership maintenance fees concern me.  Sounds like I'm paying a lot of mf annually to potentially just get a full week somewhere, along with a few days here or there involving the balancfe of the points.  Not sure if this is the way to go ot not  I'm in Southern California, so obviously there are lots of resorts that are accessible.  The San Francisco connection intersts me greatly, but again, the annual mf seems to be a concern right now.Advice much appreciated.


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## Mydogs2big (Aug 17, 2007)

Do you really love their resort?  Would you pay that much to rent?  Even if you have trouble getting your dates.  I'm all for great resales and I think this is an excellent market to buy them in.  I guess I'm just a little sceptical of the clubs.  Perhaps it's just because of all the new bigger/better resorts.  The decreased value of all (even newer and nicer) resorts.  And the club thing.  I've heard of clubs going under and there's little if anything left.  I've seen lots of rentals for zillions of timeshares at all times for the same as maintenance fees.  I guess I'm a little pessimistic about the club, that's all.


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## rmb (Aug 17, 2007)

I think the most appealing thing to me is that having these points, even though I will pay mf EVERY year, allows for some very serious flexibility here in the California/Mexico area.  Having a nice place to stay in the city of SF is not an easy task, and if you manage it correctly, it can be quite cheap.  Try paying for a hotel room like The Donatello in July and 3 nights would already be more than your year's mf.

I also own Pono Kai, one week EOY, and have deposited it in II requesting a week in Maui in July of 2009.  I've gone back and forth on how to get another week:  purchasing an inexpensive week such as Paniolo Greens for trading purposes - which creates potential major problems with 2 exchange companies trying to put together 2 weeks back to back coupled with flight reservations 330 days out, or just renting a week.

Securing rentals way out in advance is not easy to find in the first place, and the 'deals' usually are last minute ones.  I can't afford to roll the dice like that.

I checked online regarding Shell points and their prices.  I'm convinced $1275 for 3700 points at $768 mf annually is a steal.... the other prices are more than double that for the same number of points.  They don't have a lot of resorts right now, but they have enough to keep us occupied for at least another 6 years or so.  If they add more...great.  If they don't, maybe we sell the points.

That is my psychological justification for purchasing these points.... although I have not finalized the deal yet.  I just wanted some more feedback from those out there who maybe went through this with a Shell purchase and possibly could share their experiences.


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## wbtimesharer (Aug 17, 2007)

rmb said:


> I think the most appealing thing to me is that having these points, even though I will pay mf EVERY year, allows for some very serious flexibility here in the California/Mexico area.  Having a nice place to stay in the city of SF is not an easy task, and if you manage it correctly, it can be quite cheap.  Try paying for a hotel room like The Donatello in July and 3 nights would already be more than your year's mf.
> 
> I also own Pono Kai, one week EOY, and have deposited it in II requesting a week in Maui in July of 2009.  I've gone back and forth on how to get another week:  purchasing an inexpensive week such as Paniolo Greens for trading purposes - which creates potential major problems with 2 exchange companies trying to put together 2 weeks back to back coupled with flight reservations 330 days out, or just renting a week.
> 
> ...




Well my belief is that the only person who can decide if you got a really great deal would be you.  On Tug, ask a question and you will generally get  a range of answers from "Horrible Deal"  to "Who did you bean to steal this deal".    

I lean toward ownerships with a bit less MF but if you can get into high rent locations at high rent times then your ratio of Perceived Value/MF Cost  will probably be very good.  That would make it a very good deal.

Bill


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## CatLovers (Aug 17, 2007)

*I'm an SVC fan!*

rmb, if you haven't already, please read the SVC Knowledge Thread sticky that is at the top of this board.  It will answer many of the questions you have asked.  The SVC properties are top-notch - in most cases equivalent (and in several cases better) than the Marriott/Westin properties.  The only thing to be aware of is that you are buying in the Arizona home club, and there are additional restrictions (not necessarily bad) for booking into other home clubs such as Hawaii or California.  Unlike a lot of TUGgers, I don't believe that the mfs are too high - you get what you pay for - and they are in line with the other high-end properties.


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## mepiccolo (Aug 18, 2007)

I agree with CatLovers about reading the knowledge thread - it is very helpful.  While I think the price is great keep in mind that you are buying into the "Arizona" club which means you can only book into Arizona resorts 12 months out but if you want to book into any other club (i.e. any place in California or Hawaii) you will have to do it after 9 months out which could create a problem if you want to vacation in popular weeks (Easter vacation, Christmas, Thanksgiving and summer months).  We own in the Hawaii club and because we were borrowing points from the next year to make a reservation in May for friends of ours we had to wait until the nine month time to book into Kauai Resort at the Beach Boy (which I've heard is the nicest Hawaiian resort) and we didn't have a problem but it was in early May, not a heavily traveled time.  We also were able to book a 3 day in Waikiki at less than 90 days out so so far we are thrilled with the ease of using Shell points.  We've only stayed at the Beach Boy once and we were beyond pleased with how well kept and beautiful the resort was.  I think Shell prides itself on keeping its resorts in top shape so I, for one, don't mind the mainenance fees since I see that they're being put to good use.  By the way, your price is about half of what we paid on what we thought was a great deal for additional Hawaii points, but I have heard that the Arizona points are the least expensive SVC points to buy.  The only negative I could pass on is that I've read a couple of comments about people buying Arizona points and having a problem booking into Hawaii.  I fully believe that you should buy where you mainly want to vacation so it's not a problem down the line.  That said, your price sounds too good to pass up


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## rmb (Aug 18, 2007)

> The only negative I could pass on is that I've read a couple of comments about people buying Arizona points and having a problem booking into Hawaii.

I've heard the opposite.... that being if you are diligent about making reservations exactly 9 months out, your chances are very good, especially for a 1 bedroom - which is what we would want not only because there's only 2 of us, but also to minimize the point usage.

Whether you buy in AZ, CA, etc.... the 9-month rule is the 9-month rule.  I don't see where you bought them as an issue in regards to making reservations.  I agree that if one were to only use the points for Hawaii, it would probably make sense to purchase there.  However, I imagine the price would be much different and perhaps the mf higher too.  So there is give and take.

Bottom line.... if I can secure a reservation 9 months out in Hawaii for those years we travel to Hawaii, then I'm happy.  The 'non Hawaii years' are to be used for San Francisco, Napa, and perhaps Vegas.  We live in South Orange County, which makes all 3 of those resorts within driving distance... another reason the Shell points appeal to me.

One thing I've learned... these points are a positive and benefit IF you use them accordingly.  That means some analysis, planning, and doing some simple mathematics in organizing and coordinating either lengthy or mini vacations.


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## Bill4728 (Aug 18, 2007)

A good price on Shell points is a little under $1/pt and your buying in at ~ $0.33/pt. How can that be anything but a great deal?

Good Luck


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## rmb (Aug 18, 2007)

Bill.... I guess if you factor in closing costs, my price is a bit higher, but it still falls well below $1.00 per point ($200 transfer fee, $299 closing costs).  The other thing I mentioned before, and I believe it is a major part of this deal, is that I also must pay 1/2 of '07 maintenance fees ($384), but I get ALL of '07's 3700 points.  That's not bad, and I can roll them over and must use them by March 1 2009.

One more question regarding Shell points..... if I were to win another auction for some points - let's just hypothetically say 1000 - which would have a different anniversary date and different maintenance fees, could I pool them?  This would give me 4700 points and for the most part, I could use them for a full week most anywhere (I may have to borrow some points from the next year... but not many).  Two different anniversary dates, two sets of points pooled..... which set takes first dibs on usage deadline?  I still don't understand that part of it.

To be clearer.... March 1 2007 worth 3700, September 1 2007 worth 1000.... can I pool them to use for 2008 (assuming I rolled them over into 2008 in time)?  If so, what would be the usage date to use the 'pool' of points?  Little complicated, but necessary info to find out prior to another purchase.  Shell reps won't even give me the time of day until I have a membership account, and it hasn't even gone into escrow yet.... just won the auction a few days ago.


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## mepiccolo (Aug 18, 2007)

We were already Hawaii owners and then we bought some more points off of an ebay resale.  We just encountered the exact thing you are mentioning: combining the two accounts into one.  I can tell you that all along the sales process I was told it wouldn't be a problem at all to combine them and that I could ask for which use year of the two I wanted, that that shouldn't be a problem.  Even the morning that the account was transferred into my name I was told it "wouldn't be a problem".  Then that very afternoon I was told that because they were two different use years that I could not combine them.  I was very pissed off and I told the Shell employee as much since I had even been told that morning that I was going to be able to do that.  Long story short I was able to get them combined, albeit not with the use year I wanted (Apparently they always go with the original use year you own).  I had been told along the way during the process to hand-write in on my contract that I wanted my two accounts combined into one.  Maybe that is why a supervisor did finally put the request in for them to be combined.  The contract number for the additional points we purchased no longer exists.  Now all points are combined under our original points membership number and all points are combined from the two accounts and the MF will be billed as one.  Be forewarned you cannot combine two accounts if they are in different clubs, i.e., Arizona and California.  Other than that morning of anger I have to say the Shell Club has superior customer service and we are very happy to be members.  Good luck with your purchase - you are truly getting an amazing deal and will definitely enjoy your membership.  (P.S.S.  If you buy additional Arizona points and they don't combine the accounts, i.e., two separate use years, and you want to combine your account points for one reservation you cant make your reservation at 12 months out, you will have to wait until the nine-month window to make a reservation because you will be considered to be "borrowing".  That is the benefit to combining the two accounts, of course, also not having to deal with two different use years and two different banking deadlines-that would be a headache.


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## freedom53 (Aug 18, 2007)

rmb
I am also a satisfied Shell owner at 2 of their Canadian properties and have found their customer service people very helpful with any questions I have. 

Here is some info I found on the Shell members website. The comments likely relate to buying additional points within the same club.

*"What happens if I buy points from someone else?"*

You may buy some or all of the points of another member of your home club (the "seller"). If the seller has the same use year, then your use year will not change . If the seller has a different use year then your use year will change only if, on the date when the transfer takes effect, the seller's use year end date is after your use year end date. In that case, you will start using the seller's use year .

For example, suppose that your use year begins on June 1 and ends the following May 31, and that the seller's use year begins on January 1 and ends on December 31 .

(1) If you buy the seller's points on March 1, then your current use year will be extended until December 31. From then on, your future use years will begin on January 1 and end on December 31. If you have points in your points account on the day when the transfer takes effect, you may use those points until the end of the seller's use year on December 31 (instead of on May 31 of the current year).

(2) If you buy the seller's points on August 1, then your use year will stay the same. You may use points you bought from the seller until the end of your use year on the following May 31 (instead of on December 31 of the current year).

Not sure if this helps or makes things more confusing.

By the way, I have stayed at the Legacy and Starr Pass in Arizona and they are both first class resorts.


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## rmb (Aug 19, 2007)

Great information.... but here is one thing Shell told me that might just stop me from purchasing more points in the future:

They said IF a member is short (and I didn't get clarification on where the ceiling is on 'short') of points... example: 4750 to stay at KCR in Kona, but I'm short 1050 points because I have 3700.... a member can BUY points at .25 per point.  IF that is true, I would have to ask myself why I would want to buy say, another 1250 points (I use this number because an auction last night on ebay closed at $390 for 1250 points with $33 monthly mf) when I could just buy some when needed at .25 per point - AND not have to pay any mf on an additional purchase.  1000 points when needed at $250 beats 1250 with a mf of $390 annually! At least, unless I am incorrect and there is more to this purchasing of needed points on an individual basis, it seems more cost productive to NOT purchase a 2nd set of points in my case.

Any information available regarding the above scenario.


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## mepiccolo (Aug 19, 2007)

From my Shell book I got this information:
---------------------
RENT POINTS

You may rent extra points from Shell Vacation Club, subject to availability and the following conditions:  POints rented for SVC stays may only be used during the Late Opportunity Reservation Period".
The late opportunity reservation period begins 60 days prior to check-in.
----------------------

If you can plan your vacations this late out then it works.  I know for my family no way would this work for us to plan our vacations.  Just to let you know we were able to book 3 nights in Waikiki at about 75 days out (don't know if it would have been available at 60 days out-more competition for reservations then) but when I tried to make a reservation in El Paso for early November (about 75 days out) anytime within a 14-day time period there was only 2 days available (a Thursday and Friday).  Come to think of it about 6 months before our early November Kauai trip we tried to change from a 1 bdrm oceanfront to a 2 bdrm oceanfront and there were none available, andy early November is not a popular travel time.  So you may be hard-pressed to get reservations in more popular destinations, like San Francisco, at 60 days out.


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## rmb (Aug 19, 2007)

Then that basically kills the idea of 'purchasing points' for us.  Involving Hawaii, there is no way I could wait until 60 days from departure.

That means the next solution would be to 'borrow' points, if I didn't have enough... which, involving Hawaii, I would not at KCR or Waikiki.  As long as they let me borrow the points when I make the reservation - exactly at the 9 month mark - then I would be fine.  If there is a restriction to borrow the next year's points and it does not allow us to make the reservations at the 9 month mark.... we're in trouble.  Any info on that?

Now, I can see potentially purchasing some more points to at least cover a week in Hawaii.... depending on the place.  The Holua in Kona is the cheapest... but I'm not sure it is as nice as KCR or Waikiki.  Please let me know if you have stayed there.


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## rmb (Aug 19, 2007)

I called Shell and surprisingly, a rep was willing to answer some questions regarding their system and points:

Q:  If you purchase additional points on the resale market, how can I utilize them together with my original purchased points?

* If you purchase from the same home club, you are in business.  They will consolidate the points into one account and while she wasn't clear on which anniversary date would be used - your original or the new purchased one - I believe the answer is whichever is later.

Q: What is the time window to 'borrow' points to make a reservation if you are short?

* If the reservation is not at your home club, the answer is 9 months.  So, in my case, I will be doing two things at the 9 month mark in November of 08:  making a reservation for one of the Hawaii resorts, and borrowing some of my '09 points to cover the difference.... that is fine with me as long as I get the reservation.

Q:  In your experiences in dealing with reservations, what are the chances of getting the Hawaii reservations at the 9 month mark for Platinum, specifically July, months?

* There should be no problem.... especially for a one bedroom.

I'll try our Hawaii EOY plans with 3700 points and see how it goes.  I believe we can make it happen, and have enough points left over in the non-Hawaii years to spend 4 or 5 days locally (SF, Napa, Vegas).  If it is tight, I'll look for some additional points on the resale market from the AZ clubs.


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## mepiccolo (Aug 19, 2007)

You sound like you really did your homework and have a good plan set.  As for the Waikiki sVC resort I tried to get information on that recently on TUG and got no answer.  We will be there in November and will post a review after we return.  The Oahu Revealed book gives the hotel an "Ono" which is a good sign, especially since there are quite a few bad reviews on Tripadvisor.  There is no review whatsoever here on the TUG resort reviews database for that location.

As to the information Shell gave you I believe if you are borrowing even to stay in one of your own "home" club resorts you have to wait until 9 months out also to book.  (So even though we are Hawaii Club members if we borrow points from the following year we have to wait with everyone else to book at 9 months out).  The Shell book also says "Greater than four months prior to check-in, a minimum 7 night stay is required.  From four months prior to check-in, the minimum stay varies depending on the resort.  You may used banked, borrowed or shared SVC points for this reservation."

By the way, I know you already own in Kauai, but if you ever want to extend your stay in Kauai we highly recommend the SVC Kauai Coast Resort at the Beach Boy.  We absolutely love that place (see our TUG review).  Good luck with your purchase, from a fellow OC Tugger


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## Picker57 (Sep 26, 2007)

We've stayed at Holua on two vacations, and it's probably our favorite place on he island. Each place is a little different and appeal to different tastes, but Holua is beautifully laid out and the units have been spotless and spacious. 

We recently purchased some more points on site (bad idea) and were advised that it was a good idea to purchase addtional points IF you found yourself renting pointss or borrowing into the next year quite often. If not - as was stated - why pay the fees? 

 Congratulations on a great purchase price. Now I'll sit and cry for a few hours over the price we paid. 

          -----Zach


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## Picker57 (Sep 26, 2007)

mepiccolo said:


> We were already Hawaii owners and then we bought some more points off of an ebay resale.  We just encountered the exact thing you are mentioning: combining the two accounts into one.  I can tell you that all along the sales process I was told it wouldn't be a problem at all to combine them and that I could ask for which use year of the two I wanted, that that shouldn't be a problem.  Even the morning that the account was transferred into my name I was told it "wouldn't be a problem".  Then that very afternoon I was told that because they were two different use years that I could not combine them.  I was very pissed off and I told the Shell employee as much since I had even been told that morning that I was going to be able to do that.  Long story short I was able to get them combined, albeit not with the use year I wanted (Apparently they always go with the original use year you own).  I had been told along the way during the process to hand-write in on my contract that I wanted my two accounts combined into one.  Maybe that is why a supervisor did finally put the request in for them to be combined.  The contract number for the additional points we purchased no longer exists.  Now all points are combined under our original points membership number and all points are combined from the two accounts and the MF will be billed as one.  Be forewarned you cannot combine two accounts if they are in different clubs, i.e., Arizona and California.  Other than that morning of anger I have to say the Shell Club has superior customer service and we are very happy to be members.  Good luck with your purchase - you are truly getting an amazing deal and will definitely enjoy your membership.  (P.S.S.  If you buy additional Arizona points and they don't combine the accounts, i.e., two separate use years, and you want to combine your account points for one reservation you cant make your reservation at 12 months out, you will have to wait until the nine-month window to make a reservation because you will be considered to be "borrowing".  That is the benefit to combining the two accounts, of course, also not having to deal with two different use years and two different banking deadlines-that would be a headache.


This is very interesting. I had to dig through the Shell website to find the Use Year information (the architecture of that site really sucks).  Within the last year I inquired about resale points and Shell indicated I would be treated like a leper if I brought resale points into their hallowed space - that the points couldn't be combined (we now know that to be BS) and that they would require a separate contract (with MF's starting again at square one). From your post it sounds like you were ableto get the accounts combined as well.  My question: What was your clout?  What was their incentive to treat things rationally? It sounds like some additional points (resale) could work well if Shell doesn't throw up roadblocks. Getting straight information from them has been rare and difficult. 
    Thanks,

        -------Zach


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