# Was it a mistake?



## cvm7979 (Sep 29, 2011)

I have been reading thru the threads and I am almost ashamed to post. But I need help. 
We just spent more than $50,000.00 buying in the NY 57th st club. The salesman was convincing. We thought we had a good deal particularly when we were offered 750,000 HHONORS points as a bonus. We realize now we bought an expensive timeshare week. The salesman used charts and tables making it sound we would be able to exchange for more than 2-3 weeks for the 5250 points we got. This does not seem right. Are we stuck. We made the purchase in July. Have not done anything yet. We were promised detailed info in the mail. received only the MF and tax bill. Do we have any recourse. We feel the salesman misrepresented what he was selling.
Any suggestions
Thanks


----------



## Numismatist (Sep 29, 2011)

Unfortunately your recission period has likely ended.  You are beholden to the contract you signed.  Best to find out how to use is to your greatest advantage now that you own it.

Welcome to TUG!


----------



## timeos2 (Sep 29, 2011)

Wow! $50,000!  As posted above your rescind period, the only real chance you have to get out of a bad decision, has long expired.  Now you have three choices:


1) Continue to pay and learn how to maximize the value of what you committed to.
2) Contact Hilton to see if they are willing to arrange any type of buyout deal to end your ownership (this will cost $$ but not $50K)
Stop paying.  This is by far the riskiest. You entered a contract and they have the right to hold you to the terms. They can adversely impact your overall credit score or worse.  Be careful if you decide to do this.  Bankruptcy is a real possibility to make this work.
None of the above perfect but thats where you are.


----------



## loafingcactus (Sep 29, 2011)

You can trade this for two or three weeks.  You should have gotten a member guide? (A book with a photo of a fountain on the front.). If not, log into the website and you can get it from the bottom left choice... something like "my resources".  The meat of the book is at the very end, explaining exactly what you can do with your points.  Read it.

Play around with the Revolution reservation system in the website (you can't accidentally make a reservation... There is a confirm button) and see what is available.  Click into the RCI section and wander around RCI and see what you like.  Call Hilton with your questions... They are very nice! (And if you haven't figured out how to log in yet, DEFINITELY call them!!)

As someone else said, you own it now so might as well learn to enjoy it!


----------



## Talent312 (Sep 29, 2011)

You signed a valid contract months ago and its too late to undo the damage. 
But rest assured, you are not the first nor will you be the last to be hornswaggled
by a fast-talking sales-creep. It happens to the best of us.

Your best bet is to use the system to the fullest. Do not let a single point expire.
-- _If you do not have a Members Guide, call 800-932-4482 and get one, or read
it online at: http://multimedia.hiltongrandvacations.com/mg/Book_Reader.cfm?BookId=3
-- If you have not signed up for online access, go to: https://www.hgvclub.com/login.php_

Alternatives:
-- If financed: Default on the loan and be sued for the $$ you owe or file Bankruptcy.
-- If paid in full: Unload at a loss thru a licensed TS-broker (not an up-front fee scam-artist).


----------



## fillde (Sep 29, 2011)

cvm7979 said:


> I have been reading thru the threads and I am almost ashamed to post. But I need help.
> We just spent more than $50,000.00 buying in the NY 57th st club. The salesman was convincing. We thought we had a good deal particularly when we were offered 750,000 HHONORS points as a bonus. We realize now we bought an expensive timeshare week. The salesman used charts and tables making it sound we would be able to exchange for more than 2-3 weeks for the 5250 points we got. This does not seem right. Are we stuck. We made the purchase in July. Have not done anything yet. We were promised detailed info in the mail. received only the MF and tax bill. Do we have any recourse. We feel the salesman misrepresented what he was selling.
> Any suggestions
> Thanks



It's not a mistake if you can afford it.  It is not an investment but  you now own property in Manhattan . Being an owner at W57 St has some perks such as admission to their club and better booking privleges. 

Concern's  you may have down the road may be maintence fees going up and if you want to sell it you will take a hit.

Enjoy it. The location is great. The 750,000 HHonors will give you about three weeks at a Hilton Hotel.


----------



## Adrienne (Sep 29, 2011)

We did the same thing and we don't regret it.  Much.  Yeah, we could have pain half as much for the same thing but we really enjoy our vacations, vacations we never would have taken had we not been bamboozled into buying this timeshare. 

Cut your losses and enjoy the good times!


----------



## Numismatist (Sep 29, 2011)

Adrienne said:


> We did the same thing and we don't regret it.  Much.  Yeah, we could have pain half as much for the same thing but we really enjoy our vacations, vacations we never would have taken had we not been bamboozled into buying this timeshare.
> 
> Cut your losses and enjoy the good times!



This is a great way to look at it!


----------



## pianodinosaur (Sep 29, 2011)

cvm7979:

It is highly unlikely that you would be able to purchase that time and location in the resale market. Timesharing is a luxury item not an investment.  You have an excellent week and location.  Your trading power is outstanding.  Many of us have purchased directly from HGVC prior to learning abou the resale market, myself included.  

HGVC is a very flexible system and HHonors is perhaps the best customer loyalty program in the hotel industry.  We never would have taken the wonderful vacations we had without timesharing.  I stongly suggest you learn how to use the system to your best advantage.  Welcome to HGVC and to timesharing.  You did not make a mistake if you use and enjoy your timeshare.


----------



## cheryltwin (Sep 29, 2011)

Totally agree with all the others... many of us have spent more than we should... of course, before we found TUG... Ask a lot of questions on the board and enjoy many years of wonderful vacations...  don't look back!


----------



## Conan (Sep 29, 2011)

Adrienne said:


> We did the same thing and we don't regret it.  Much.  Yeah, we could have pain half as much for the same thing but we really enjoy our vacations



pain=paid

Freudian slip!


----------



## JohnPaul (Sep 29, 2011)

*Limited Resale*

I paid full price for West 57th Street and am very happy.  There are some (very limited) resale opportunities.  New York really is a rather unique market.

Hope you enjoy your stays.


----------



## GTLINZ (Sep 29, 2011)

cvm7979 said:


> I have been reading thru the threads and I am almost ashamed to post. But I need help.
> We just spent more than $50,000.00 buying in the NY 57th st club. The salesman was convincing. We thought we had a good deal particularly when we were offered 750,000 HHONORS points as a bonus. We realize now we bought an expensive timeshare week. The salesman used charts and tables making it sound we would be able to exchange for more than 2-3 weeks for the 5250 points we got. This does not seem right. Are we stuck. We made the purchase in July. Have not done anything yet. We were promised detailed info in the mail. received only the MF and tax bill. Do we have any recourse. We feel the salesman misrepresented what he was selling.
> Any suggestions
> Thanks



I agree with others that at this point it is yours and you should learn to make the best use of it. But also you have a unique property in an VERY expensive area - so I would suggest if you enjoy NY that you use it there often. It will start paying itself back... and resale there would be a much higher percentage there that at normal club locations. You have a different animal than Vegas or Orlando or Hawaii - so leverage it.  And ENJOY YOURSELF !!!


----------



## Omne (Sep 29, 2011)

cvm7979 said:


> I have been reading thru the threads and I am almost ashamed to post. But I need help.
> We just spent more than $50,000.00 buying in the NY 57th st club. The salesman was convincing. We thought we had a good deal particularly when we were offered 750,000 HHONORS points as a bonus. We realize now we bought an expensive timeshare week. The salesman used charts and tables making it sound we would be able to exchange for more than 2-3 weeks for the 5250 points we got.



Yeah they are good, very good. We almost bought at a W 57th presentation last June, my wife even had her check book out. I asked to borrow the salesman's Ipad and did a quick google of Hilton timeshares and saw the lower prices. We ended up with a Hilton Club New York membership resale. 

As others have mentioned, it _is_ New York and it is in a great location. The most important thing is that if you enjoy it and use it then it's worth what you paid for it.


----------



## Remy (Sep 29, 2011)

As long as we're on the feel-good train, you can also look at the fact that your particular timeshare has a higher resale value than most. The distance between retail and resale is large, but could be much, much, much worse. Or, you could have the high price and a lousy point package. Imagine buying a 2,400 point for $20,000. It has a resale of next to nothing. With broker fees, you might pay to unload it. Here you have an excellent property with a solid number of points to go to other locations in a decent sized unit in a high-demand season and for more than a week.

You can also look at it this way. If you sell now you take a loss and get nothing out of it. If you sell in 25 years, you take a loss and gain 25 years of amazing vacations.

Incidentally, some who have paid retail have gone on to buy another resale. It really is a great system. Dollar cost averaging may make you feel better too.


----------



## mtu75075 (Sep 29, 2011)

cvm7979 said:


> I have been reading thru the threads and I am almost ashamed to post. But I need help.
> We just spent more than $50,000.00 buying in the NY 57th st club. The salesman was convincing. We thought we had a good deal particularly when we were offered 750,000 HHONORS points as a bonus. We realize now we bought an expensive timeshare week. The salesman used charts and tables making it sound we would be able to exchange for more than 2-3 weeks for the 5250 points we got. This does not seem right. Are we stuck. We made the purchase in July. Have not done anything yet. We were promised detailed info in the mail. received only the MF and tax bill. Do we have any recourse. We feel the salesman misrepresented what he was selling.
> Any suggestions
> Thanks



I, too, also bought retail West 57th Street.  I don't regret it.  I originally bought retail at Sea World and after almost 9 years of not really knowing what to do with it, I trade it in and bought West 57th Street.  After that, I found TUG.  I did not rescind because I didn't find any resale that match the deal I got.  I trade in the entire retail price I paid for Sea World, and then, I made them paid three years worth of my maintenance fee, and other perks.  

Then, I went to Judi and bought my Sea World back through resale.  With TUG, I now have better ideas of how to make my points work for me.  It will also work for you.  By the way, New York closing takes longer than other jurisdictions.  So, be patient, all the information will come in the mail.


----------



## timeos2 (Sep 29, 2011)

JohnPaul said:


> I paid full price for West 57th Street and am very happy.  There are some (very limited) resale opportunities.  New York really is a rather unique market.
> 
> Hope you enjoy your stays.



Not long ago the same could be said for the Manhattan Club. Today the weeks are tough to give away so location alone - no matter where - isn't enough to keep resale prices up.  This resort is currently too new to have many resales but give it two-four more years and the prices today will seem sky -high and retail is already WAY out of line with the true value.  $50K for a week is not and never will be a good deal.  Not when there are also annual fees that can reach $2000+ (see MC above).  

Buying retail hardly ever represents a good buy / value in timeshares.


----------



## Talent312 (Sep 29, 2011)

Its easy for those of us here in the boondocks to cluck and act dismayed, but in a market where a tiny hole-in-the-wall can go for a million plus, it's not to difficult for any TS to appear inexpensive by comparison.

If you prefer "grey poupon" to "classic yellow," but of course, it will cost you.


----------



## alwysonvac (Sep 30, 2011)

Suggestions: 
1. Use your HHonors Points wisely by taking advantage of the HHonors VIP Rewards, Rewards for Hilton American Express cardholders & Point Stretcher Rewards.
2. Don't hoard your HHonor points. Use your HHonors points sooner rather than later. Honors Hotel Reward categories and the number of points required for a HHonors Reward continue to increase over time. For example years ago, you could stay at a top Hilton Hotel (cat 6) for 6 nights at a VIP rate of 150,000 HHonors points. Now that same 6 night Hilton hotel stay (now a cat 7) will cost you 225,000 HHonors points at a VIP rate.
3. Use your HHonnor Points towards expensive nightly hotel rates. For example: London, Paris, Rome, Venice, Florence, etc

See this link on HHonors Rewards for 2011 - http://tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=150690&highlight=hhonors

Good Luck & Welcome to TUG


----------



## timeos2 (Sep 30, 2011)

*There are limits. 50K is way above all of them.*



Talent312 said:


> Its easy for those of us here in the boondocks to cluck and act dismayed, but in a market where a tiny hole-in-the-wall can go for a million plus, it's not to difficult for any TS to appear inexpensive by comparison.
> 
> If you prefer "grey poupon" to "classic yellow," but of course, it will cost you.



If timeshares were real estate then that would apply. They aren't and it doesn't. They are a beast unto themselves (and one that can carry a big bite if you don't shop & buy very carefully).  $50K for any timeshare week anywhere is wrestling with a grizzly - you aren't likely to come out looking good.


----------



## brother coony (Sep 30, 2011)

timeos2 said:


> Not long ago the same could be said for the Manhattan Club. Today the weeks are tough to give away so location alone - no matter where - isn't enough to keep resale prices up.  This resort is currently too new to have many resales but give it two-four more years and the prices today will seem sky -high and retail is already WAY out of line with the true value.  $50K for a week is not and never will be a good deal.  Not when there are also annual fees that can reach $2000+ (see MC above).
> 
> Buying retail hardly ever represents a good buy / value in timeshares.



TMC  Was and is still a Great bargain in NYC, I own 4 (four )weeks there and enjoy each and every one,about 8 years ago I bank one week with RCI and could not fine a comparable exchange, Drop RCI and never exchange again,I use my weeks and rent when I cant use it,I own a new years Manhattan club Penthouse suite I paid $48,500 for.over 5yrs ago, Best timeshare I ever bought, MFS this year are $2,645.but if I but it up for rent I have never fail to get over $500 per night and it Will rent in 30 days on redweek,
  there are a lot of tick off owners at TMC,but it really has nothing to do with TMC due to economy many they just cant afford NYC any more and they are mad with every one and every thing,heck some are mad with there mortgage bank because they cant meet there Mortgage payments
 P.S the Penthouse suites was never offered to the public,you had to be a MC owner to get one as there is only 24 rooms,and to spend New Years on the 30th floor looking out at NYC skyline and look at the crowed  below its next to haven and worth every penny,
itss almost impossible to trade into, and it would be Houdini best trick ever to get a new years week trade


----------



## timeos2 (Sep 30, 2011)

brother coony said:


> TMC  Was and is still a Great bargain in NYC, I own 4 (four )weeks there and enjoy each and every one,about 8 years ago I bank one week with RCI and could not fine a comparable exchange, Drop RCI and never exchange again,I use my weeks and rent when I cant use it,I own a new years Manhattan club Penthouse suite I paid $48,500 for.over 5yrs ago, Best timeshare I ever bought, MFS this year are $2,645.but if I but it up for rent I have never fail to get over $500 per night and it Will rent in 30 days on redweek,
> there are a lot of tick off owners at TMC,but it really has nothing to do with TMC due to economy many they just cant afford NYC any more and they are mad with every one and every thing,heck some are mad with there mortgage bank because they cant meet there Mortgage payments
> P.S the Penthouse suites was never offered to the public,you had to be a MC owner to get one as there is only 24 rooms,and to spend New Years on the 30th floor looking out at NYC skyline and look at the crowed  below its next to haven and worth every penny,
> itss almost impossible to trade into, and it would be Houdini best trick ever to get a new years week trade



In my other post about the MC I too agree that owning there & using or renting it remains a great value.  You cannot beat the location or the units. 
But the RESALE value - which once stood at $20K or more - is now ZERO due to bad management. That is a terrible hit for owners to take for what remains a premier timeshare property and is the best existing example of how high annual fees can cause the RESALE value to plummet. It is the very thing occurring at many Marriotts / Hiltons/other "big" names that carry an extremely high management overhead which leads to fees out of line with value.  They are also suffering the RESALE value decline but many are still in denial about that. It does not impact the use value which, like the MC, may remain high. It is a huge factor when you try to sell.


----------



## Karen G (Sep 30, 2011)

timeos2 said:


> In my other post about the MC I too agree that owning there & using or renting it remains a great value.  You cannot beat the location or the units.
> But the RESALE value - which once stood at $20K or more - is now ZERO due to bad management.



As evidenced by  this offering on the Bargain Deals forum. If the maintenance fees were more reasonable, I'd jump on it.


----------



## C30NY (Sep 30, 2011)

Here is one on ebay now at 15K with nearly two weeks left...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/HGVC-HILTON...50892313093?pt=Timeshares&hash=item3a6a58e205

Keep an eye on it to see how much it sells for if you are really considering unloading!


----------



## rgong (Sep 30, 2011)

Jase369 said:


> Here is one on ebay now at 15K with nearly two weeks left...
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/HGVC-HILTON...50892313093?pt=Timeshares&hash=item3a6a58e205
> 
> Keep an eye on it to see how much it sells for if you are really considering unloading!



The ebay seller is Judi K, one of the trusted HGVC realtors on this board. On her website there are 15 other listings for W57th with 5250 annual points, ranging in asking price from $18K to $35K. In the ebay listing, the reserve price has not been met, and I'm guessing it's around 18K, which is probably the min. price Judi thinks will pass Hilton's ROFR.


----------



## Asl18940 (Oct 1, 2011)

*You do have great trading value*

Don't think that you're limited to RCI with HGVC.  Take a look at San Francisco Exchange and Interval International.  You get much better deals from those trading organizations, though it will cost a few hundred more in membership fees.  Our experiences with RCI have been extremely mixed, but what I like about San Francisco Exchange and II is that you don't deposit your week or points until you find a resort that you like, and they confirm availability.


----------



## Talent312 (Oct 2, 2011)

Asl18940 said:


> [W]hat I like about San Francisco Exchange and II is that you don't deposit your week or points until you find a resort that you like, and they confirm availability.



Using RCI thru HGVC does not require a deposit of anything, either.
After you confirm a booking, HGVC simply deducts points from your account.
If you do a continuing search, points are held while the search is pending.

AFAIK, you cannot join II with a HGVC-TS, unless its at an affiliate resort
(not a true HGVC-resort), which has a relationship with II. HGVC does not.

HGVC'ers have had good luck using SFX, but you need to reserve a week
to trade. Technically, HGVC only allows renting of home-weeks...
[correction:] _but as the next poster notes, HGVC works well w-SFX_.


----------



## travelguy (Oct 2, 2011)

Talent312 said:


> Using SFX with a HGVC-TS poses difficulties. Some HGVC'ers have had good
> luck with them, but you still need to reserve a week to trade, and technically,
> HGVC only allows renting of home-weeks, not club-bookings.



I've been doing exchanges between HGVC and SFX for years and never had any difficulties.  In fact, I usually triple my HGVC points with a low HGVC point exchange (3400) thru the SFX bonus program.  Thus far, all my exchanges have been HGVC quality or better.

I don't believe that HGVC views this as "renting" but as an exchange.  HGVC is very aware of the SFX exchanges and used to have a designated HGVC rep that handled the SFX exchange process.  This year was the first that they asked me to get a guest certificate for the SFX exchanger.

Overall, I've been extremely please with the HGVC/SFX exchange process and results.


----------



## masala (Oct 4, 2011)

*Originally Posted by timeos2*



timeos2 said:


> Not long ago the same could be said for the Manhattan Club. Today the weeks are tough to give away so location alone - no matter where - isn't enough to keep resale prices up.  This resort is currently too new to have many resales but give it two-four more years and the prices today will seem sky -high and retail is already WAY out of line with the true value.  $50K for a week is not and never will be a good deal.  Not when there are also annual fees that can reach $2000+ (see MC above).
> 
> Buying retail hardly ever represents a good buy / value in timeshares.



The land itself should cost around $100 million plus for the West 57th location.  Each timeshare unit comes with 0.009864% ownership of this land, which translates to $9,864 without any development.  Under the worst case scenario of this property being worth nothing more than the prime land on which it is located, it will never go to zero (unless MF go to unrealistic levels)


----------



## travelguy (Oct 5, 2011)

masala said:


> The land itself should cost around $100 million plus for the West 57th location.  Each timeshare unit comes with 0.009864% ownership of this land, which translates to $9,864 without any development.  Under the worst case scenario of this property being worth nothing more than the prime land on which it is located, it will never go to zero (unless MF go to unrealistic levels)



The only problem is that timeshare built over top of the priceless land and the pesky timeshare owners who typically inhibit any attempt to repurchase and develop the property.  See the many other threads on TUG with examples of bankrupt timeshare properties that cannot sell due to the non-participation of only a few owners.


----------



## masala (Oct 5, 2011)

travelguy said:


> The only problem is that timeshare built over top of the priceless land and the pesky timeshare owners who typically inhibit any attempt to repurchase and develop the property.  See the many other threads on TUG with examples of bankrupt timeshare properties that cannot sell due to the non-participation of only a few owners.



But, this is prime location -- it would be foolish not to maximize the value of returns from this property.  If developers really wanted this land for an alternative use, they would pay off the owners to get the property.  Such offers would be attractive if the outside alternative is $0 for the owners trying to sell the property themselves.   The "holdouts" would be paid a premium if necessary.


----------



## travelguy (Oct 6, 2011)

masala said:


> But, this is prime location -- it would be foolish not to maximize the value of returns from this property.  If developers really wanted this land for an alternative use, they would pay off the owners to get the property.  Such offers would be attractive if the outside alternative is $0 for the owners trying to sell the property themselves.   The "holdouts" would be paid a premium if necessary.



I totally agree with the logic in your post ... BUT the practical experience of those developers trying to "redevelop" timeshares has been utter failure.  It typically takes a very high percentage or total interval owner participation to "sell" the intervals to the developer.  A few owners always try to hold out for a massive payday once they realize they have the power.  And many owners just can't be located to get their compliance with the sale.  There are many other practical obstacles as well but developers usually don't get past this initial problem.


----------

