# Which has worse heat in summer: Sun City-Palm Desert or Sun City-Phoenix?



## Rene McDaniel (Feb 9, 2013)

Tuggers are so knowledgeable on so many things, I thought I'd try asking my question here.  

We are starting to look at retirement, and we know we will need to sell our house & move to a smaller, less expensive place.  We like the Sun City concept (lots to do) and toured Sun City Hilton Head while we were on vacation.  Great facility, but just not the right part of the country for us left-coasters. We think we need to stay on the west coast, and be one day driving distance to family members.

We like Palm Desert, so we toured the 2 Sun City's there, and fell in love Sun City Palm Desert.  It's a little pricy ($200K) compared to the one's in Arizona, but it feels like a resort, and would make it easy for us to day-trip to LA or San Diego for family birthdays & get togethers.  My husband enjoys the idea of being on a Senior's baseball team, and having guys to watch sports with.  I enjoy crafting, sewing, and scrapbooking, and the ladies I met there were all very enjoyable.  There were plenty of resale homes with small backyards that would be perfect for our little dog to take care of his business.  

But, there's always a "gotcha" and this one is:  "Why the high turnover?"  As I look at Zillow, it seems the Sun City Palm Desert properties turn over very frequently.  I know that many of these are 2nd homes, housing crashed, etc.  But that's true in Phoenix too, yet the Sun City properties there don't seem to turn over nearly as much.

In checking weather highs/lows on weather.com is "appears" that possibly Palm Desert has WORSE summer heat than Phoenix? Does anyone know if this is true?  I've started reading the BBS on city-data.com trying to get more information & I do hear people rant that Palm Desert summers are miserable & that it doesn't cool down at night. People who can afford it, in both places, seem to pack up and leave town June through September -- just like in Florida.  But, I don't see anyway we could afford to keep 2 homes in retirement, and I'm wondering how easy it would be to find an inexpensive 3 or 4 month furnished rental (in summer AND with a small dog) someplace where it's cooler.

Also wondering about air conditioning costs in either city, if we were to stay the summer as some people do.  A $200/month summer A/C bill would not be so bad (on a 1500 sq ft house), but 3 or 4 months of a $400+/month bill might be a deal breaker.  My husband is not a big fan of Phoenix, and I can't say I'm enamored with all the rock yards & dry appearence of everything.  But I think we should investigate it more if it would be cheaper to live there, offer a nice lifestyle, and a more survivable summer where it cools down in the evening.  

Sorry to make such a lengthy post, but as you can see I've got a lot of questions as we start to check out our various retirement options. Thanks for any input or insights you can offer.

--- Rene


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## VacationForever (Feb 9, 2013)

From my memory I believe the temperatures are comparable between Palm Desert and Phoenix area.  I have not lived in either places but have spent time at both a week or two at a time, throughout the year.  Summers are miserable at both places.  

If you are worried about cost of electricity my suggestion is to invest in putting in solar at your home while you can afford.  That sun in Palm Desert will surely power the solar panels very well! We just put in an indoor pool and my electricity cost jumps up by more than $300 per month due to pool heating.  My electricity bill used to be $400 in summer and $120 in winter.  Now in winter I am seeing more than $400 per month.  We are getting solar put in over the next couple of weeks.


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## Fern Modena (Feb 9, 2013)

I think either of those places are going to be about the same temperature in the summer.  I don't know about the humidity, if there is more of it in Palm Desert or not.

I live in one of the four Sun City properties in the Las Vegas Valley.  Prices have come down, and if you are not thinking of buying new, you might consider my area as well (you can email me, or send me your phone number if you want to talk).

Some things to think about:

I moved from Northern California.  I knew what the weather was going to be like, and having spent time here at various times of the year (including summers), we knew we could live here full time.  Spend as much time in the location you might be interested in the summer as well, so you can see if you can tolerate it.  Remember that it is also hot at night, the coolest time of day being 6 AM.  It is not unusual for it to be 100 º at midnight.

If you are going to move anyway, include Las Vegas as well.  We aren't what you think.  We don't live "on the Strip," but in lovely residential communities. We're closer to the LA and San Diego areas than Phoenix, I think.

No grass?  Why would you want it?  Its the desert, remember?  You get used to it.  People have many trees and shrubs, and some have high quality artificial grass (not at all the stuff of yesteryear). My front courtyard has a patch of artificial grass.  It looks nice, and the dog loves to relax on it in the sun (she goes to the rocks in the back to "do her business" cause she's a lady).

I don't know how much you pay every year in State Taxes, but it is over 9% in California.  I decided that if we moved, it would definitely be out of state for that reason.

Another thing to think about: Do you have Medicare yet? Do you have Kaiser as an HMO?  There is  no Kaiser in Nevada or Arizona.

Fern


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## Ron98GT (Feb 9, 2013)

Fern Modena said:


> I think either of those places are going to be about the same temperature in the summer.  I don't know about the humidity, if there is more of it in Palm Desert or not.
> 
> I live in one of the four Sun City properties in the Las Vegas Valley.  Prices have come down, and if you are not thinking of buying new, you might consider my area as well (you can email me, or send me your phone number if you want to talk).
> 
> ...



Like Fern said, the Summer temperatures between the two Sun City locations that you are looking at in CA & AZ "should be" comparable.   During the Summer, Sun City Summerlin in Las Vegas should be about 10 degrees lower, but during the winter we are a few degrees colder.  

Come check us out.  No state income tax. And we have low property taxes here also.  We're more like CA in a lot of ways than AZ, after all half the people here are from CA.


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## Pat H (Feb 9, 2013)

Too bad Sun City Hilton Head is so far away from CA. I love it here but even here it gets hot and very humid in the summer. My DD lived in Tucson for 5 yrs and I have been there and in Las Vegas in the summer. I'll take 90 and humid over 115 degrees anytime. No matter what you choose, Sun City is a great place to live. I would say the biggest cause of turnover is age. People end up in assisted living/nursing homes, move with/near children or die. There are always a lot of homes for sale here but every month there are a lot of homes sold too.


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## PStreet1 (Feb 9, 2013)

We live in Sun City West, in the Phoenix area.  The first Sun City was the Sun City in Phoenix, so it, of course, has the oldest homes.  Many have been completely gutted and completely redone.  In the Sun City plans originally built by Del Webb, no interior wall is load-bearing, so some people have, in essence, created a completely new floor plan.  Sun City has a lot of grass.

The next area (about a mile from Sun City) is Sun City West.  Floor plans are different from the original Sun City (started in the 1980's and built out about 2008).  

The next area is Sun City Grand, which touches Sun City West.  It was built out in the last few years.

The next area was Corte Bella, which is essentially a country club community; it doesn't have the same activities/rec. centers, etc. as the other communities.

The newest area is Sun City Festival, and they are building now.

I realize that run down didn't address climate, but thought you might like to know the different communities.  (There are also other retirement communities in the area, especially Robson).

The utilities in Arizona are lower than California, and you would have no problem staying under $200.00 on the summer air-conditioning bill.  I'm not sure what our bills usually are, but at times we've compared figures with others, and I know they are at least $100.00 a month less than those of my daughters who live in Houston, and they are less than those of friends in Palm Springs.  The heat is "impressive" in the summer; that's why we spend summers in Mexico just below San Diego.  I thought I was prepared for it because we'd sampled it for a week or two at a time before commiting to move, but somehow it changes when you know you won't be leaving in a week or two.  When we were sampling, I never consciously thought "we'll be leaving soon," but nonetheless, it must have been in the depths of my mind somewhere because I found being in it "for the long term" to be quite different from being a visitor.

Medical stuff:  Phoenix is a medical center for the region.  We have a Mayo Clinic; we have an M.D. Anderson, and in Sun City West, we have Del Webb hospital, which is highly ranked, as is Boswell Hospital, which is in Sun City.  Because the Sun Cities are retirement communities, almost all doctors/facilities accept the Medicare payment, so you won't find yourself having to pay bills on top of Medicare.  There is also an Advantage program which many people are very, very pleased with:  Medisun.  They pay everything, and there is no additional charge beyond your Medicare payment--no co-pays, etc.  They have extensive wellness programs as part of their program also.  If you are away from home, they pay emergency expenses, and no one we know has ever had to justify payment or wait for re-embursement.

In Sun City West, you don't pay any school tax because that deal was negotiated when Sun City West was planned.  I don't know about Sun City.  I do know that Sun City Grand and Sun City Festival and Corte Bella do pay school tax.  

Sun City West was the last community totally planned by Del Webb, and we have more golf courses, rec. centers, etc. than newer communities do (basically because they hadn't figured out yet that as people tend to play less golf as time goes on).  Sun City West (population, about 35,000) has 7 golf courses and 4 rec. centers.  All are beautifully maintained, new gym equipment every two years, the bowling alley was completely re-done about two years ago, miniture golf course was revamped (for when the grand children visit) recently also, etc.

Property Taxes:  probably less than $2000 a year (depends on price of house, of course).

An additional plus:  lots of golf courses make for lots of golf course lots without too high a premium.

Like Fern, if you'd like more information you think I might have, I'd be happy to share.


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## eal (Feb 9, 2013)

Its not that difficult to get away from the super heat in either state. From Phoenix you can drive to Sedona, Flagstaff or Pinetop. From Palm Desert you can drive up the Palms to Pines highway to Idyllwild for cooler temps in the summer.


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## Rene McDaniel (Feb 9, 2013)

Thanks Fern and Ron,

That's very helpful.  How many months is it 100+ degrees in your area?  Would it also be June, July, August, September?  and how does it affect how much you can, or can't do activity-wise with other Sun City residents?  I'm also wondering about what summer utility costs would be there in Nevada. $200, $300, $400 a month?

And Fern I guess you are right about getting used to/appreciating the desert landscaping.  I think Palm Desert/Palm Springs has some visual appeal because it is heavily watered, and looks a bit like an oasis in the desert. Whereas, Phoenix does not.  

SPTung,
Thanks for your suggestions about solar to offset high a/c costs.  I think the Sun Cities in Arizona allow solar panels, but I did not see any in Palm Desert. Now I am wondering if they are even allowed.  I will have to check that out.  There are a lot of rules on the various Sun Cities that I am trying to get a handle on, but it's tough because HOA seems to have it's own set of rules about renting, dogs, car parking, you name it.

So much great information here.  Thanks everyone, and keep it coming.

--- Rene


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## Lets Get Going (Feb 9, 2013)

I lived in the Palm Springs/Palm Desert area for 15 years and loved it!  You get used to the heat just like you would anywhere.  We made many trips to Vegas and Phoenix and found them very similar temperature wise.  Our electric bills were high in the summer, but if you have an evap cooler/swamp cooler it's much lower.  We rarely used our AC except in Aug/Sept when the humidity got high.  The swamp cooler worked perfectly fine for us, but then we weren't one of those that had to have the temperature at 68 degrees either.

As far as the landscaping, we did have grass year round and we paid dearly for it...our water bill was very close to our electric bill.  This is probably why most people opt for the desert landscape instead.

Taxes were another story.  My husband refused to retire in CA because of their taxes.  It's just way too expensive.  Car registration is also extremely expensive.  We paid over $400 a year just for a newer truck, my older car was $325.  California is not cheap living, that's for sure.

We visited Vegas often and depending on traffic and which route you take (62 through 29 Palms or the 15) it was about 4 hours or so, however, traffic can be a mess and add to the time.  Accidents happen often on the 15 tying up traffic for HOURS!  Palm Desert to San Diego was about 2 hours, again depending on traffic.  LA the same.  One common denominator in California is....depends on traffic...you'll hear that often!

Palm Desert is gorgeous though, I miss it.  The mountains are stunning year round but especially in the winter when they have snow. You can drive up to Big Bear or Idlywild if you want to play in the snow, and then drive back down the mountain and sit in your pool/jacuzzi.  Either trip is about 45 minutes.

Good luck to you.  Hope some of this helps.


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## ricoba (Feb 9, 2013)

Your headline says "which has worse heat?"  To me this implies you really don't want to live in the desert, but you'd bear it to live in a Sun City home.  

If that is the case, I'd suggest you not move to a desert location for retirement.  Or at least go and live in the desert for the summer somewhere prior to retiring if possible.  

Del Webb/Sun City has a lot of locations that aren't in the desert, from their website, I see they are building one in San Juan Capistrano.  There is also Reno and Northern California locations.  

Having said that though, I'd prefer Palm Desert over Phoenix, simply because I am more familiar with that area.  But I am sure I'd grow to like Phoenix, it's just not a place I have been too much.

To answer which months....the heat in Vegas is on from late May/early/mid June till late September/early/mid October.  My heating cost for August (our highest cost month) this past summer in Vegas for a 1600 sq ft townhouse was just under $200...I am a wimp, I like it cool to cold!


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## PStreet1 (Feb 9, 2013)

Rene McDaniel said:


> I will have to check that out.  There are a lot of rules on the various Sun Cities that I am trying to get a handle on, but it's tough because HOA seems to have it's own set of rules about renting, dogs, car parking, you name it.
> 
> So much great information here.  Thanks everyone, and keep it coming.
> 
> --- Rene



Solar panels are all over all the Sun Cities in Arizona.

HOA's:  In Arizona, not only are there over-all Sun City community rules for each community, individual HOA's exist for various segments of each community.  For example some areas have maintenance of the front yards included in HOA association, so they have rules, but the back yards are individual responsibilities.  Some have HOA's for the front, but the back is literally on the golf course so the golf course is in charge.  Some are totally individual and have no rules except the over-all rules.  

For any of the established communities, it will be difficult to get a good feel for the rules without actually being in the community and looking at a specific property.  It will be easier to get a good idea of the rules in Sun City Festival.


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## Rene McDaniel (Feb 9, 2013)

Pat,  
Thanks for the additional information on the Del Webb communities in Phoenix.  I have been looking online at homes for several months now, and have been trying to talk my husband into driving over to see some of the developments first hand for ourselves.

The first Sun City has the best prices, cheapest HOA fees, and low property taxes because no school/public services, etc.  BUT-- a lot of those properties were built in the 1960's and 70's and are in bad, bad shape.  Even if you replace the particle board kitchen cabinets, avocado green appliances, the carports, etc. -- some of them still look a little bit depressing.  If I'm going to retire and be home full-time, it can't be in a depressing place, or I will end up a depressed person.  I know this about myself. 

The 2nd one, Sun City West has many newer sections that seem more modern, and I think it's a gated community which has some appeal to me for the first time.  We are used to sleeping with the windows open, but our bedroom has always been upstairs. For retirement, we know our next place should be a 1-story.  But I would worry about sleeping with open windows on the 1st floor in Phoenix in a non-gated community.  I guess you could put bars on the bedroom window, but who wants to feel like you're either in prison or a death trap.  So, Sun City West is one of the areas I'd like to go over and take a better look at.

As for Sun City Grand (#3), I read that there is a big lawsuit going on about
poor construction, foundation problems, etc. and have heard it is best to steer clear of that entire development. 

The new Sun City looks nice and almost identical to the houses and floorplans in Sun City Palm Desert.  But you're right, they pay for schools & city services and property taxes there aren't much different than California, and the houses themselves cost the same or higher.  Why be further away, and there's not even any savings?  I thought we should still go take a look, because MAYBE being near metropolitan Phoenix would be better than being in the California desert.  My husband rolled his eyes when I suggested this.

Lets Get Going,
Thanks for mentioning the swamp cooler.  I was wondering what they were, and was thinking maybe it was another name for a central A/C unit.  I will have to find out more about them.  I see them on top of all the Phoenix Sun City houses, but I don't think I saw them in Sun City Palm Desert.  

Thanks guys!  Great info and lots of good suggestions to check out.
--- Rene


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## gary01 (Feb 9, 2013)

Rene, I sent you a PM.


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## PStreet1 (Feb 9, 2013)

Sun City West isn't gated.  None of the Sun Cities in Arizona are gated; however, to say they are low crime areas would be such an understatement that I can't even begin to explain how low the crime rate is.  We, and everyone we know in Sun City West, never think twice about sleeping with the windows open.  The Sun City West posse patrols tirelessly--leave the garage door up after 8:30 pm and you'll get a call to remind you to close it, "Safety first, you know."  I don't know when I last read of a crime in the area, and I'm sure it's the same in all the other Sun Cities.  I suspect they are that way all over the country:  "We old people are vigilant; see a car that looks suspicious one of us nosy old folks will spot it and turn it in for the posse to check out."  

None of the Sun Cities is really in Phoenix.  Sun City West is in Suprise, Arizona; others are either in Surprise or just in the county.  It's like any other big city:  some areas in the city are dangerous; some are less dangerous; some aren't dangerous; some suburban areas are so safe they almost don't need police; some aren't.  Since we moved to Sun City West, we have rarely been in Phoenix--only a couple of times--and I don't even really know how to get there.  We shop in our area or another suburban area or drive across the valley to Scottsdale (45 minutes).


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## zinger1457 (Feb 9, 2013)

Rene McDaniel said:


> Thanks for mentioning the swamp cooler.  I was wondering what they were, and was thinking maybe it was another name for a central A/C unit.  I will have to find out more about them.  I see them on top of all the Phoenix Sun City houses, but I don't think I saw them in Sun City Palm Desert.
> --- Rene



I live in Arizona (high desert) and have an evap (swamp) cooler, I like it and they are definitely cheaper to run then AC units.  I also like the fact that they exchange the inside air with fresh outside air about 4 times/hour when running.  I'm not familiar with Sun City but many areas in Arizona have changed their building codes and don't allow evap coolers in new construction because they are thought to use too much water.  I'm not sure I buy that reasoning, my water bill only goes up ~$1/month during the summer.  If you consider $200/month your high end for utilities during the summer you should do more research.  Contact real estate agents and even the utility company that services the area you're looking at.  My friends in Phoenix with AC typically spend a lot more than $200/month during the hot summer months.


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## PStreet1 (Feb 9, 2013)

Rene McDaniel said:


> Thanks for mentioning the swamp cooler.  I was wondering what they were, and was thinking maybe it was another name for a central A/C unit.  I will have to find out more about them.  I see them on top of all the Phoenix Sun City houses, but I don't think I saw them in Sun City Palm Desert.
> 
> --- Rene



Air conditioners are often on the roof in Arizona.  I doubt that the pictures you've seen of roof units were swamp coolers for the most part.  Some may have been, but most are air-conditioning units.  Apparently, they are much less expensive to install on the roof.  When you have to replace one, the air-conditioning company comes to the house with a crane for getting the old one and lifting the new one.


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## Rene McDaniel (Feb 9, 2013)

for Pat (or any others who leave the desert during summer):

(1) When you leave for summer can you leave the a/c off for the entire summer and head out.  I am wondering if there are problems related to it being like a hot car.  Maybe 115-degrees outside, and 150 inside & things melting, warping, etc. 

(2) and a question for anyone living in one of the Sun Cities:
Yes, there are pools, pickleball, fitness centers, tons of clubs, groups, and activities.  But how much of it do you feel you (or most people) really use? I know when I go on vacation I always THINK I will always use all of the amenities, but I seldom do. I am particularly thinking about my husband, who does not golf.

Thanks,
Rene


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## PStreet1 (Feb 9, 2013)

Some people do leave the air conditioner off and leave for 4 to 6 months.  However, if you do that, you'll probably have damage such as cabinets cracking or furniture drying out enough to harm it.  We leave ours on, but set it for 80+ degrees; we haven't seen damage.

Amenities:  we started out joining clubs, exercising regularly, etc.  We bought new golf clubs for the lessons we were sure we'd be taking imminently.  We still don't play golf, though we do live on a course.  We no longer are active in the clubs, and unfortunately, we aren't exercising regularly either.  I guess motivation still counts.  

There's an additional problem with leaving for 6 months:  it's difficult to remain a part of what is going on in either location.  Gradually, Mexico has become our primary home.  We're in Mexico when it's hot (with trips back to check the house/mail/etc.), and we're in Mexico during the winter when we miss our friends there--and that happens often.  We do have friends in Sun City West, too, but Mexico seems to pull us in ways Sun City West doesn't.


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## SDKath (Feb 9, 2013)

Have you looked into Leisure World in Orange County, CA??  It's much closer to the coast and has lovely weather year round (60-70s in Winter, 80s in Summer).  Phoenix, LV and Palm Desert are going to be over 100 degrees from May through October!  It's VERY dry and VERY hot in the summer months.  We are talking no going outside for 3-4 months at a time.  My parents lived in Palm Springs and they called their Summer their Winter because they were essentially stuck indoors in air conditioning. 

They hated it and moved towards the Coast of CA as soon as they could.

The other thing to consider is that there are serious critters in the desert.  Mostly the scorpions.  It makes it hard to leave doors open without very tight screens.  You also have to bug spray often to avoid the scorpions from staying in your home.  Considering that the climate is so pleasant for 6-7 months of the year, most people sadly left their windows and doors sealed up and closed because of the fear of too many of the little scorpions coming in.  My grandfather got bitten on the foot when he put a shoe on one year.  Then when we were visiting this past Spring, there was one on my FIL's bed.  EEEEEW.  It caused some sleepless nights for me to think about that!

Kath


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## Ron98GT (Feb 10, 2013)

SDKath said:


> Have you looked into Leisure World in Orange County, CA??  It's much closer to the coast and has lovely weather year round (60-70s in Winter, 80s in Summer).  Phoenix, LV and Palm Desert are going to be over 100 degrees from May through October! (Shouldn't be over 100 until end of May or Beginning of June.  By mid Sept, temps should be in the mid 90's) It's VERY dry and VERY hot in the summer months. (Actually it's dry year round.  Good for arthritis, bad for guitars.)  We are talking no going outside for 3-4 months at a time. (What?)  My parents lived in Palm Springs and they called their Summer their Winter because they were essentially stuck indoors in air conditioning.
> 
> They hated it and moved towards the Coast of CA as soon as they could.
> 
> ...


Wow! 

Can't speak for Palm Springs, but there really is life year round in the Las Vegas Valley.


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## SDKath (Feb 10, 2013)

Ron98GT said:


> Wow!
> 
> Can't speak for Palm Springs, but there really is life year round in the Las Vegas Valley.



Nonsense to the bug spray???  Seriously???  Services come around every 2 months to spray the homes for spiders and other critters which the scorpions ingest to obtain their water source.  When there is no "food" for the scorpions in a home, they do not survive.  The buy spray doesn't kill the scorpion, it kills it's prey.  http://www.epestsupply.com/scorpions.php#.URdCilrDS_A

Scorpions in Las Vegas and Southern NV: http://www.8newsnow.com/story/17424708/scorpion-season-settles-on-southern-nevada

Grady Jones is an entomologist and exterminator for Western Exterminators. He says the scorpions are multiplying around southern Nevada. He says they are taking over the number one spot from common pests like ants and cockroaches.

"We are seeing a lot of calls come in because during the spring and fall that is mating season for scorpions," Jones said. "So, if you see one, chances are you are going to have more."

Oh and here is a nice graph of average temps in LV throughout the year: http://www.weather.com/outlook/travel/vacationplanner/vacationclimatology/monthly/USNV0049 
And Palm Desert: http://www.weather.com/weather/wxclimatology/monthly/graph/92260
And Phoenix: http://www.weather.com/weather/wxclimatology/monthly/graph/USAZ0166

You can even do comparison charts on the graphs at weather.com!  Here is LV and PHX: http://www.weather.com/outlook/trav...vac_compare&clocid1=USNV0049&clocid2=USAZ0166

Basically identical, although highest is LV with 105 in the summer and surprisingly, lowest is Phoenix at 102.

Hope this info helps...


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## ricoba (Feb 10, 2013)

I was going to suggest Leisure World as well as an option. 

And again, I suggest that someone really spend some time here in the summer prior to moving to the desert.  I like the heat, but it does get to you after a real long spell of hot days.  

The other thing that occurs here and in the Southwest (Phoenix/Palm Springs/Vegas) during the summer that no one has mentioned is that August is "monsoon" season.  So it can rain really really hard at times, plus there can be days when it is very high humidity and very hot.  Dry heat I can take, but that hot humid heat is no fun.

RE: Scorpion's, I believe Karen G posted here on TUG that she found one at home once.  I have never seen one (thankfully), but I do think about them from time-to-time during the summer.  The bug we get the most of here at our place is American Cockroaches (sometimes called a water bug or Palmetto).  Thankfully, they only come out in the summer, and they pretty much stay outdoors and if they make it inside they tend to die off pretty quickly.  I have seen more Black Widow spiders at our LA home than I have here.  Also we live with the constant racket or singing of the male Cicada's doing their mating song. 

I had a nice little lizard (not sure which kind) living near my garage door most of the summer and I'd see him every time I'd take the car out for quite awhile. I considered him a good luck lizard!


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## Quiet Pine (Feb 10, 2013)

Friends who live in Palm Springs spend three months a year in Los Angeles and turn off their air conditioning. They never thought about the wine bottles in the decorative rack, and the wine now is undrinkable. Probably better stored in the refrigerator.

If you're making a Ben Franklin list to compare CA and AZ, try this calculator that compares cost of living in various cities:
http://www.bankrate.com/calculators/savings/moving-cost-of-living-calculator.aspx

When we visit Palm Desert, we fill up the gas tank on the AZ side of the border
to save about 45c a gallon.


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## Rene McDaniel (Feb 10, 2013)

ricoba said:


> And again, I suggest that someone really spend some time here in the summer prior to moving to the desert.  I like the heat, but it does get to you after a real long spell of hot days.
> 
> The other thing that occurs here and in the Southwest (Phoenix/Palm Springs/Vegas) during the summer that no one has mentioned is that August is "monsoon" season.  So it can rain really really hard at times, plus there can be days when it is very high humidity and very hot.  Dry heat I can take, but that hot humid heat is no fun.



Rick,
Thanks for your input.  I am curious how you manage living in multiple locations.  Do you usually leave the desert in summer, and come back to LA? Which community do you find yourself being most a part of?

-- Rene


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## PStreet1 (Feb 10, 2013)

Flickr has let me back in, so you have an invitation.


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## ricoba (Feb 10, 2013)

Rene McDaniel said:


> Rick,
> Thanks for your input.  I am curious how you manage living in multiple locations.  Do you usually leave the desert in summer, and come back to LA? Which community do you find yourself being most a part of?
> 
> -- Rene





I am a Vegas summer dweller, by happenstance.  

Last May, I was laid off from work in Pasadena due to cut backs in the budget, so I decided to come and live in Vegas for the summer.  I was here from June to October and quite enjoyed my full-time desert sojourn. 

But this isn't our first foray into living in the desert during the summer months.

Years ago, when we first moved to CA, we were without work and looking for a place to settle.  We started expanding our job search beyond SoCal and spent the good portion of one summer here in Vegas. 

This was back during the boom days (the 1990's) here and there were thousands of people living like vagabonds in Vegas, just like we were.  Work opened up in CA before, Vegas, so we settled there, but we still really liked Vegas.  

So over the years we'd come and visit on a very regular basis.  Most of the time this was during the summer, since our children were in school.  We found that Vegas was a great place during the summer, especially poolside.  

Since we drove up from LA, we always had a car and ventured out of the tourist zones quite often.  What happened was that we came to really see how we could live here some day.  

Then back in 2010 during the downturn in the economy, we took the opportunity to buy our townhouse here in Vegas as an investment/getaway spot and perhaps eventual retirement home. 

We now consider Vegas more of our home than we do SoCal, though my wife is still working in LA (Kaiser RN).  More than likely when we are both "formally" or "fully" retired, this will probably become our permanent residence.  

I for one will be glad to leave the LA life behind all the time.  But  for now, I still hop between the two locales.  When this thread started, I was writing from LA and since last night, I have been back @ home in Vegas.  My wife will be joining me in a few hours (lucky her, she gets to fly from Long Beach, and it only takes an hour unlike the 4.5 to 5 hour drive that I do very regularly).

I know the desert isn't for everyone.  That's why I suggest you try to spend time living in the desert for an extended time if possible.  See if you find the summer heat to your liking or too oppressive for your tastes.  I mean, I see you are coming from San Diego, which of course is known for year round wonderful temperatures, so yes, this is really a different climate zone.  (Plus, be aware that it's much cooler (and even colder) here in the winter than it is in Southern California, so that is another consideration.  This would not be the case in Palm Springs, also, I think it's cooler in Phoenix in the winter than it is in PS).

All the best


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## Ron98GT (Feb 10, 2013)

SDKath said:


> Nonsense to the bug spray???  Seriously???  Services come around every 2 months to spray the homes for spiders and other critters which the scorpions ingest to obtain their water source.  When there is no "food" for the scorpions in a home, they do not survive.  The buy spray doesn't kill the scorpion, it kills it's prey.  http://www.epestsupply.com/scorpions.php#.URdCilrDS_A
> 
> Scorpions in Las Vegas and Southern NV: http://www.8newsnow.com/story/17424708/scorpion-season-settles-on-southern-nevada
> 
> ...


Dude, do you live here.  If not, sounds like you have an agenda.  Talk to people who live here, rather than quoting sources that support your agenda ==> badmouth Las Vegas, which is my home town.


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## ricoba (Feb 10, 2013)

Ron98GT said:


> Dude, do you live here.  If not, sounds like you have an agenda.  Talk to people who live here, rather than quoting sources that support your agenda ==> badmouth Las Vegas, which is my home town.



She's not a "dude".  Also I believe she is a cardiologist in San Diego.


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## Fern Modena (Feb 10, 2013)

I've lived in Henderson for nine years now.  I leave my front door open several hours a day for the dog to come in and out, and I've never had a critter or a bug enter.  I have had one housefly during that time. I do get an occasional earwig.  That's about it.  No scorpions, ever.

There are coyotes nearby, although I've only had one wander by once.  They are nearby because there is open space close and they were here first.  A girlfriend of mine who lives three miles away, and has an arroyo in her back yard sees them more often.

I've heard of people in our community having roof rats. The HOA and the county researched the problem and told people that they really shouldn't plant or have trees (usually palms) which are near attic/roof vents, because that made access to the area easy for the rats.  People who don't have trees situated in such a matter don't get them.

Statistically, Las Vegas is the driest metropolitan place in the United States, averaging < four inches of rain a year.  As previously mentioned, a goodly portion of it is in Monsoons, in the summertime, where the rain is quite hard, and often accompanied by thunder and lightning.  I is quite common during these occurrences for streets to flood, and temperature to drop by as much as 20º in a half hour or less.  If you are ever here during a monsoon, _do not attempt to drive through standing water._ You can't see how deep it is or what it harbors, and you could easily get stuck.

I agree with Ron about the HOT SEASON.  It is much shorter than in the California Valleys.  We get over 100º around mid-May, and by mid-September it is over.  In California we were always in the 100's till early to mid October (lived in Eastern Contra Costa, weather like the Central Valley).  The heat on the valley floor is much hotter than it is where I live, as much as 8º in the summer (I live at almost 3200 ft., more than 1000 ft. above the valley floor).

In the wintertime it is colder than San Diego or LA by a lot.  My sister lives in the South Bay of LA, and her temps in the winter are generally about 20º higher than mine.  This year we have been very cold, in the teens and twenties at night, although high thirties and low forties is more common. High fifties and low sixties is common in the daytime here.

People don't "stay in" the whole summer here.  That's just plain silly.  If they want to play golf or jog, they tend to do that early in the day. Bocce is good at all hours, as is swimming, of course.  I go out shopping, out to lunch, and whatever else I need to do.  You go from air conditioned house to car to place of business, only feeling the heat walking from the car.

One thing about moving to the desert, make sure you drink enough water! Not coffee, juice, soda pop, iced tea, etc. but water, because it is so dry. Otherwise you'll become dehydrated.  By the time you know you need the water you are already on the way to dehydration.  I carry a bottle with me in the car all the time.

I live here. So do Ron, Rick, and Karen.  Here being the Vegas Valley.  We have much more experience than a web page average, and no agendas. If you have any questions, we'll be happy to answer.  People helped us before we moved here.

Fern


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## Fern Modena (Feb 10, 2013)

Rick, I knew she was a she, and that she was a doctor from San Diego. Don't know how her profession makes a difference unless she is saying the hot, dry weather is bad for your heart. Or is it the scorpion bites 



ricoba said:


> She's not a "dude".  Also I believe she is a cardiologist in San Diego.


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## ricoba (Feb 10, 2013)

Fern Modena said:


> Rick, I knew she was a she, and that she was a doctor from San Diego. Don't know how her profession makes a difference unless she is saying the hot, dry weather is bad for your heart. Or is it the scorpion bites





Rats.....eeeek!  They have placed bait in our community, (one box right near our front door!   --- I hate those things, but thankfully, haven't seen one).  I've heard that rats can be a problem here (but probably not much worse than most metro areas)

Like I said earlier, I think Karen has had a scorpion in the house as I remember.  But I have never heard any cautionary tales on the news or in the papers about them, so I am not sure how much a person needs to worry about them. 

One of the great things about Vegas is it is almost immune to most natural disasters (other than flash floods in monsoon season).  There are no earthquakes, fires, flood (other than the one just mentioned), tsunami's, hurricanes etc...

I didn't realize that we were the driest metro in the US, that's interesting.  The upside is that we are almost always sunny, even when cold.


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## JanT (Feb 10, 2013)

I also live in Sun City in Henderson.  Love it there.  I don't need to reiterate what Fern, Karen, Ric, and others have said who live there.  It is a wonderful place, although I am finding even normal winters to be too cold for my taste.  That's another topic though.

The one thing I will second especially, is the suggestion from Ricoba to go to the desert and live through a summer before you make a decision to leave San Diego.  It is a huge difference in terms of climate and you may find you cannot tolerate the heat of the desert. Is it unbearable?  Not to me but I also grew up in the deserts of California and I had spent 10 years in Maryland - a place that had heat and humidity.  But, if I had spent alot of time in San Diego I might not have been able to deal with the heat of the desert.  

So, I strongly suggest you perhaps rent a place for the summer in one of the places you are talking about and see how it goes.  You do not want to make a move like that without having a good idea of whether you will like it or not.

Retirement moves can be tough but can work out beautifully, too if you make sure you do enough research.  Kudos to you for doing what alot of people don't do and that's start researching ahead of time!


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## Karen G (Feb 10, 2013)

ricoba said:


> Like I said earlier, I think Karen has had a scorpion in the house as I remember.


Yes we've had a scorpion or two almost every year (we've been here almost six years). Our 24-year old son was stung by one on his foot in our family room. But, we rarely see any other insects. We have a bug man who sprays every month and that seems to work well.

We still love living here!


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## klpca (Feb 10, 2013)

First off, I live in San Diego, about six miles inland. I have had both scorpions and roof rats so I wouldn't consider either one a deal breaker.  Coyotes too. Nature happens. 

Another suggestion for the OP would be to look at the Temecua/Murrieta area. The home prices there can be significantly lower than San Diego. We were looking for investment property there about a year ago and I recall an over 55 neighborhood in the northern part of Temecula that was quite reasonable. It may be an easier move than a move to the desert. There's also a nice Sun City development up in the high desert community of Apple Valley and I thought there is another one just south of Corona (but I'm not 100% sure about that one).  If you stay within CA, you may be able to do a one time transfer of your home's assessed tax value and keep your low tax base instead of paying property tax on the current purchase price. Not all counties participate so you need to check first. Just food for thought.


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## eal (Feb 11, 2013)

My BIL retired to a Four Seasons Hovnanian development in Beaumont, near Apple Valley and he loves it there. The temps are about 10 degrees cooler than Palm Springs both summer and winter, there is always a pleasant breeze, and never any smog.


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## gary01 (Feb 11, 2013)

eal said:


> ... there is always a pleasant breeze, and never any smog.



The breeze in Beaumont is almost constant - and is almost always 30 miles per hour!  No thank you...


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## Pat H (Feb 11, 2013)

Here's my opinion on the social aspect of a Sun City. There is something for everyone. Clubs, groups, neighborhoods, etc. provide a lot of social outlets. As a couple you will find many other couples that you click with and will spend time with. A lot of the activities revolve around food though! You can exercise or not. A lot of people spend time walking and talking. Social and exercise at the same time, what could be better? There are seminars on everything from health issues to financial investments. In SCHH there is a theater for entertainment/secondhand movies. As part of the Public Safety Committee, I put on a seminar on Elder Abuse. Oh yeah, there are volunteer committees too, e.g. Finance, Golf, Covenants, etc. Sometimes there can be a lot of politics involved in those though.

Many people learn new things when they move here. The clubs give lessons. I learned Mahjongg and now play 4 times a week. I met some of my good friends there. Woodworking seems to become a new hobby for a lot of people also. Then there are the sports - softball, tennis, pickelball, bowling, bocce, etc. 

I also have a part-time job 17 hrs a week as front desk monitor in one of the fitness centers. Almost all of the people who work in the fitness centers including personal trainers live here. 

The support you get from friends and neighbors if you are ill or lose a spouse is remarkable. I have been here 2 1/2 yrs having moved from the northeast. While I do miss my family up north, I love it here and hope I never have to move.


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## ricoba (Feb 11, 2013)

Pat H said:


> Here's my opinion on the social aspect of a Sun City. There is something for everyone. Clubs, groups, neighborhoods, etc. provide a lot of social outlets. As a couple you will find many other couples that you click with and will spend time with. A lot of the activities revolve around food though! You can exercise or not. A lot of people spend time walking and talking. Social and exercise at the same time, what could be better? There are seminars on everything from health issues to financial investments. In SCHH there is a theater for entertainment/secondhand movies. As part of the Public Safety Committee, I put on a seminar on Elder Abuse. Oh yeah, there are volunteer committees too, e.g. Finance, Golf, Covenants, etc. Sometimes there can be a lot of politics involved in those though.
> 
> Many people learn new things when they move here. The clubs give lessons. I learned Mahjongg and now play 4 times a week. I met some of my good friends there. Woodworking seems to become a new hobby for a lot of people also. Then there are the sports - softball, tennis, pickelball, bowling, bocce, etc.
> 
> ...




We have only been fortunate enough to visit Fern @ her Sun City Anthem home and viewed the amenities with her (and Jerry).  I think you have given a very good description about the Sun City lifestyle.  It seems very attractive and maybe someday, we too will be fortunate to become residents.


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