# Dilapidated DRI resorts?



## dougp26364 (Jun 26, 2022)

I keep reading that the DRI resorts have seen better days and in need of maintenance. We haven’t been DRI owners for many years but this makes me both sad and happy. Happy we paid the fees to bail out several years ago and sad they’ve fallen back into disrepair. 
When DRI bought out Sunterra, most, if not all of these resorts were in need of a lot of attention. MF’s skyrocketed and SA’s weren’t uncommon. They brought all the resorts up to “DRI standards” at great owner expense. It’s a shame that it appears Apollo has allowed them to fall back again. 
Now the cycle appears to begin over again with Hilton needing to bring them up to Hilton standards. Maybe not Grand standards, but something Hilton is willing to put their name on. Knowing no management company spends money out of their own pocket, I’m beginning to wonder what this latest incarnation of Sunterra/DRI/HVC is going to cost owners of these included resorts and what’s going to happen to owners of the resorts Hilton doesn’t wish to keep?


----------



## geist1223 (Jun 26, 2022)

We have been DRI Members for several years. The DRI resorts we at which we have stayed have not been dilapidated.


----------



## escanoe (Jun 26, 2022)

dougp26364 said:


> Knowing no management company spends money out of their own pocket, I’m beginning to wonder what this latest incarnation of Sunterra/DRI/HVC is going to cost owners of these included resorts and what’s going to happen to owners of the resorts Hilton doesn’t wish to keep?



To the extent this does materialize, I suspect it will be at a challenging time for owners. Considering all the inflationary factors in play (especially travel related), I am expecting significant MF increases to be the standard they are posted later this year.


----------



## dougp26364 (Jun 26, 2022)

geist1223 said:


> We have been DRI Members for several years. The DRI resorts we at which we have stayed have not been dilapidated.



It could be perception based on HGVC owner experience. We owned DRI for a number of years, dating back to 1998 with Polo Towers being our first two purchases (pre Sunterra buyout). I know there’s a difference and that difference is why we left DRI but kept Hilton. The resorts were so much dilapidated as they weren’t always 100%. Little things but we were paying higher fees than Hilton with lower quality IMHO.

So perhaps perception is playing a part in opinion. Still, if Hilton owners staying at DRI resorts have this opinion based on experience through Hilton ownership, I’d imagine Hilton management has the same view. This makes me wonder if DRI owners will see a repeat of the fee hikes and SA’s that occurred u dear the DRI flag initially. Personally, I can’t imagine it happening again. Especially since the #1 reason we deeded back our DRI deeds was over priced MF’s with to little going into reserve and to much going to management fee’s. Hilton, in my opinion, did a much better job of keeping their resorts maintained with reasonable fees. Hopefully they’ll rebalance where the MF money is going and puts the necessary funds into the resort rather than asking the owners to foot the bill


----------



## CalGalTraveler (Jun 26, 2022)

I heard some DRI TUGsers say that DRI/Apollo  renovated some rooms/wings in some resorts but not others to save money. The people who trade/rent were put into the non-renovated wings, while owners and VIPs were put in the renovated wings. If true, this is a terrible practice. This could be why there are two worlds of opinions on travel sites (good/bad). I hope HGVC can apply their procurement and maintenance efficiencies to bring all rooms up the Hilton standard without costing owners more.


----------



## escanoe (Jun 26, 2022)

I have heard this too, from TUGers I have high trust in, so I have no doubt it is what they have experienced.

However, it is not consistent with what my limited experiences have been. Within slightly more than a year I exchanged (using RCI Points) into both Beachwoods (NC Outer Banks) and Historic Powhatan (Williamsburg, VA). Both seemed well maintained and at in good shape ... even if I viewed the resorts as not quite as nice as HGVC. 

There was a recent discussion in the Eastern Timesharing forum on what Williamsburg timeshares were best for exchanging in RCI. Both Greensprings and Historic Powhatan (both DRI) earned good marks.

The reason I largely do not exchange into the DRI resorts in a competitive place like Williamsburg is because their resort fees are out of line with other resorts I like.



CalGalTraveler said:


> I heard some DRI TUGsers say that DRI/Apollo  renovated some rooms/wings in some resorts but not others to save money. The people who trade/rent were put into the non-renovated wings, while owners and VIPs were put in the renovated wings. If true, this is a terrible practice. This could be why there are two worlds of opinions on travel sites (good/bad). I hope HGVC can apply their procurement and maintenance efficiencies to bring all rooms up the Hilton standard without costing owners more.


----------



## chapjim (Jun 26, 2022)

We have only stayed in two DRI resorts -- Grand Beach in Orlando and Powhatan in Wmsburg.  We thoroughly enjoy Grand Beach (the 3BR/3BA units).  Powhatan was okay but was missing some small things that would have made the stay more pleasant.  One that comes to mind is soap dishes in the bathrooms.  Had to get small plates from the kitchen to use as soap dishes.

[edit] I think it was at Powhatan that the shower in the second bathroom had a lip that was about two inches off the floor.  Problem was the shower curtain only came to within three inches of the floor, requiring a small mop-up job after a shower. [end edit]

It will be interesting next time to see what Hilton has done (other than stock with Hilton linens).


----------



## nuwermj (Jun 26, 2022)

Most of the DRI resorts that were aquired from Sunterra are old structures. After Diamond took over, they did "spruce up" the buildings and units. But there is only so much you can do to an old building. I don't know much about Hilton, I've only stayed at Tuscany. But I've stayed at many Marriott's. To bring Diamond's quality up to something like Marriott would, in my opinion, require cutting the buildings. The other problem Diamond has is their grounds and common areas. They don't have the space to make these high quality.


----------



## chapjim (Jun 26, 2022)

nuwermj said:


> Most of the DRI resorts that were aquired from Sunterra are old structures. After Diamond took over, they did "spruce up" the buildings and units. But there is only so much you can do to an old building. I don't know much about Hilton, I've only stayed at Tuscany. But I've stayed at many Marriott's. To bring Diamond's quality up to something like Marriott would, in my opinion, require cutting the buildings. The other problem Diamond has is their grounds and common areas. They don't have the space to make these high quality.



Again, from a sample of two DRI resorts.  I would say the grounds at Grand Beach are spectacular.  Powhatan was okay and of course doesn't have the possibilities that Grand Beach has with tropical foliage.

I'm a Clarkson grad, Class of 1967.  Has the snow in Potsdam melted yet?  (I remember tapping a keg for the Kentucky Derby, first Saturday in May, and putting the keg in the snowbank on the north side of the house!)


----------



## nuwermj (Jun 26, 2022)

CalGalTraveler said:


> I heard some DRI TUGsers say that DRI/Apollo  renovated some rooms/wings in some resorts but not others to save money.



Apollo was in a bit of bind. DRI annual fees were very, very high by comparison to other timeshare systems and Apollo required DRI managers to hold the line. I have seen memos to HOA boards stating no fee increases. This reduced funds for renovation projects. And of course, Apollo and Diamond execs were unwilling to redirect any of their management fee back into renovations. Nevertheless, I think they understood the high annual fees were becoming a problem on the sales floor. To make the adjustment they keep their double charged management fee and cut back on renovations. HGV inherited the dilemma. There isn't much up-side on Diamond's fees. Remember the income of the average Diamond customer is less than that of the Hilton customer.


----------



## nuwermj (Jun 26, 2022)

chapjim said:


> Again, from a sample of two DRI resorts.  I would say the grounds at Grand Beach are spectacular.  Powhatan was okay and of course doesn't have the possibilities that Grand Beach has with tropical foliage.
> 
> I'm a Clarkson grad, Class of 1967.  Has the snow in Potsdam melted yet?  (I remember tapping a keg for the Kentucky Derby, first Saturday in May, and putting the keg in the snowbank on the north side of the house!)



Yes, the winters can be harsh. It might snowed at graduation--which is around Mother's Day.  I've been here since 1986 and the amounts of snow and the cold are not as bad now as they were then. We haven't seen consecutive weeks of 20 below in many years. 

I've not been to Grand Beach or Williamsburg, so I should have qualified my comments. The Diamond network is a hodge-podge of sites, with a high degree of variation among them.


----------



## Mongoose (Jun 26, 2022)

dougp26364 said:


> I keep reading that the DRI resorts have seen better days and in need of maintenance. We haven’t been DRI owners for many years but this makes me both sad and happy. Happy we paid the fees to bail out several years ago and sad they’ve fallen back into disrepair.
> When DRI bought out Sunterra, most, if not all of these resorts were in need of a lot of attention. MF’s skyrocketed and SA’s weren’t uncommon. They brought all the resorts up to “DRI standards” at great owner expense. It’s a shame that it appears Apollo has allowed them to fall back again.
> Now the cycle appears to begin over again with Hilton needing to bring them up to Hilton standards. Maybe not Grand standards, but something Hilton is willing to put their name on. Knowing no management company spends money out of their own pocket, I’m beginning to wonder what this latest incarnation of Sunterra/DRI/HVC is going to cost owners of these included resorts and what’s going to happen to owners of the resorts Hilton doesn’t wish to keep?


I would be surprised by that based on how much they ratchet up MFs.  I sold mine because of this and their sales tactics but the resorts I stayed at were nice.  I think there may be a few as part of a bulk acquisition that are sub par.


----------



## chapjim (Jun 26, 2022)

In reality, I don't think the North Country got that much snow compared to a lot of places that had lake effect snow dumped on them.  (I used to drive between Syracuse and Watertown.)  The thing in the North Country was there was no such thing as a winter thaw.  Layer of snow, layer of sand, layer of snow, layer of sand.  Merchants in town cleared sidewalks so you had to step down from the street.

I'll take Virginia!


----------



## amycurl (Jun 26, 2022)

We stayed at the Ocean Beach Club as our first (and so far, only) DRI experience. While it was new(er), it wasn't as nice as Oceanaire, and it just felt like things weren't being kept up. Splinters off the entry doors, hallways were gloomy and unkempt, the indoor pool was a disaster....we went to one of the older VA Beach resorts (the oldest one on the beach) to use their pool (I think we got special permission to do this, maybe? Because our indoor pool was a mess, and kept being closed?) and found that resort to be very, very dated. Beach Quarters might have been the name? This was probably about four years ago.

Anyway, I stayed at my first HGVC a few weeks ago, Las Palmeras, and was underwhelmed. I mean, it was nice....enough. But lots of odd choices, and maintenance issues. We've liked the looks of some other HGVCs we've toured in SC, but I was less than impressed with the whole situation. I've stayed at heaps of Marriotts, and I've found them to be the best maintained, overall, of all of the major hotel-branded timeshares I've stayed at.


----------



## Nowaker (Jun 27, 2022)

amycurl said:


> Anyway, I stayed at my first HGVC a few weeks ago, Las Palmeras, and was underwhelmed. I mean, it was nice....enough. But lots of odd choices, and maintenance issues. We've liked the looks of some other HGVCs we've toured in SC, but I was less than impressed with the whole situation. I've stayed at heaps of Marriotts, and I've found them to be the best maintained, overall, of all of the major hotel-branded timeshares I've stayed at.


Las Palmeras is typically considered the worst of all 4 Orlando HGVCs, mainly because it was a hotel-to-timeshare conversion. I've visited other HGVCs - Elara, Paradise, Boulevard, Sunrise Lodge, MarBrisa, Grand Waikikian, Maui, and they're all better than Las Palmeras. Just saying HGVC is typically more than what Las Palmeras offered you.


----------



## ljmiii (Jun 27, 2022)

amycurl said:


> Anyway, I stayed at my first HGVC a few weeks ago, Las Palmeras, and was underwhelmed. I mean, it was nice....enough. But lots of odd choices, and maintenance issues. We've liked the looks of some other HGVCs we've toured in SC, but I was less than impressed with the whole situation. I've stayed at heaps of Marriotts, and I've found them to be the best maintained, overall, of all of the major hotel-branded timeshares I've stayed at.


By all reports, Las Palmeras is awful. But we've stayed in HGVC's Tuscany Village and it was nicer than MVC's Grande Vista and on par with the Royal and Imperial Palms. In Hawaii, we own at and love the Lagoon Tower on O'ahu but have also stayed at and been quite pleased by Kingsland and the Bay Club on the Big Island.


----------



## dioxide45 (Jun 27, 2022)

A viewer commented on a couple of my YouTube videos about a Diamond Resort in Sedona not being up to par. I think there is some comparison here to HGVC that might not be in line with HGV vision for the HVC brand. HVC probably won't ever be up to the same standard as HGVC.


----------



## dioxide45 (Jun 27, 2022)

ljmiii said:


> nicer than MVC's Grande Vista and on par with the Royal and Imperial Palms


I find this an odd statement as I would put Grande Vista far above either Royal or Imperial Palms...


----------



## dayooper (Jun 27, 2022)

dioxide45 said:


> A viewer commented on a couple of my YouTube videos about a Diamond Resort in Sedona not being up to par. I think there is some comparison here to HGVC that might not be in line with HGV vision for the HVC brand. HVC probably won't ever be up to the same standard as HGVC.



I think it depends on which resort. There are some DRI resorts that are better than others. The comment above about there being a fair amount of variance in quality between the resorts is spot on. Even within Sedona, there are many resorts and some are higher quality than others.


----------



## dougp26364 (Jun 27, 2022)

dayooper said:


> I think it depends on which resort. There are some DRI resorts that are better than others. The comment above about there being a fair amount of variance in quality between the resorts is spot on. Even within Sedona, there are many resorts and some are higher quality than others.



I went back and looked at the date we deeded our DRI deeds back to DRI. It was 2015. At that time, DRI had spent a lot of owner $$ to bring the resorts up to DRI standards, which was maybe a level below HGVC but generally comfortable and nice. In 7 years, if Apollo allowed the resorts to back slide, that’s unconscionable considering Polo Towers MF’s where either equal to HGVC LV Blv or slightly above them (I can’t really remember for certain).

If this is the case, Hilton might be finding out they’re planned integration schedule is a little to aggressive. Turning the sales staff loose with promises of things to come could easily backfire, creating discontent amongst owners who upgraded in anticipation of all these new locations happening within a year or two.

I’m  just stupefied that, after all the fees collected on the owners behalf, that any DRI resort might be in any sort of disrepair or delaminated. I now wonder where the money will come from to bring these resorts to Hilton standards. Will Hilton properly allocate MF’s for proper maintenance or will they hit owners already paying fees to high for their quality level (IMHO). I am so glad we bailed on DRI.

It appears to have been nothing but a cluster duck from a management standpoint for a very long time with DRI. Hopefully Hilton will bring a steady hand to this ship and finally put things right for all the DRI owners. I’m just glad to not be a part of it at this point in my life.


----------



## dioxide45 (Jun 27, 2022)

If the fees at DRI resorts were high and they haven't been actively renovating on a 5/10 or 6/12 schedule, there should be plenty of cash sitting in reserves ready to be spent on renovations. If it isn't, where is it?


----------



## frank808 (Jun 27, 2022)

dioxide45 said:


> I find this an odd statement as I would put Grande Vista far above either Royal or Imperial Palms...


Interior of the palm villas were nice and on par with Grand Vista. I just did not feel like the exterior and pool area were up to par with Grand Vista.

Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk


----------



## ljmiii (Jun 27, 2022)

dioxide45 said:


> I find this an odd statement as I would put Grande Vista far above either Royal or Imperial Palms...


Maybe we stayed there at the end of a refurb schedule, but the 2nd villa we were given had peeling paint, a shower that barely worked, a broken cooktop, and noticeable grime in the kitchen and bathrooms. The 1st one we were given already had someone occupying it!

The worst part was that the staff didn't care about either issue and having moved us once ('cause...our fault?!?) had no interest in moving us again. Or of fixing the villa. Worst customer service *by far* I've ever experienced at a MVC resort.


----------



## dayooper (Jun 27, 2022)

dioxide45 said:


> If the fees at DRI resorts were high and they haven't been actively renovating on a 5/10 or 6/12 schedule, there should be plenty of cash sitting in reserves ready to be spent on renovations. If it isn't, where is it?



DRI’s management fees they charged to the HOA’s were very high, which went straight into DRI/Apollo’s coffers. As was said above, DRI told the HOA’s no increases in MF’s while not lowering their fees to the resorts.


----------



## 90_Min_Sales_Pitch (Jun 27, 2022)

dayooper said:


> I think it depends on which resort. There are some DRI resorts that are better than others. The comment above about there being a fair amount of variance in quality between the resorts is spot on. Even within Sedona, there are many resorts and some are higher quality than others.



I've stayed at DRI's Bell Rock a couple times in the past, and didn't enjoy the mattress the last time.  The only other DRI we've stayed at was Kohl's Ranch, 2 hours East.  It was more comfortable, but secluded, and seemed like a converted lodge.  

Sedona Summit HVC, 3 weeks ago:

1. Frequent punctures and chipped away corners to exterior stucco.
2. Cracked concrete steps on the stairwell.
3. Limited parking, due to a tight footprint.  Someone was allowed to take up 3 parking spaces with their vehicle, trailer, and motorcycles.
4. Not all the burners on the stove worked.
5. Worn out couch with light stains.
6. Carpet coming loose near the bathroom tile.
7. Significant water damage on one bedroom wall. 
8. Light fixtures in bathroom (above tub and shower) had their switches removed and plated.
9. No cleaning supplies for dishes.

We've stayed at a number of Wyndham/Worldmark/Shell properties over the last few years, plus once at Bluegreen.  HGVC seems like a significant step up, and DRI a major step down, IMHO.


----------



## CalGalTraveler (Jun 27, 2022)

@90_Min_Sales_Pitch Sorry to hear about your stay. I would hate that. Please report your findings to HGV so they can correct. Did they send you a customer sat survey after your stay?


----------



## dougp26364 (Jun 27, 2022)

dioxide45 said:


> If the fees at DRI resorts were high and they haven't been actively renovating on a 5/10 or 6/12 schedule, there should be plenty of cash sitting in reserves ready to be spent on renovations. If it isn't, where is it?



One of the reasons we left DRI was the lack of funds being placed into the cash reserve fund. Polo Towers was only putting around $50 for a 2 bedroom unit whereas Hilton was north of $100. The money was going into “other” pockets.


----------



## dougp26364 (Jun 27, 2022)

90_Min_Sales_Pitch said:


> I've stayed at DRI's Bell Rock a couple times in the past, and didn't enjoy the mattress the last time.  The only other DRI we've stayed at was Kohl's Ranch, 2 hours East.  It was more comfortable, but secluded, and seemed like a converted lodge.
> 
> Sedona Summit HVC, 3 weeks ago:
> 
> ...



That’s to bad. Sedona Summit was one of the few DRI resorts that held interest for us. We had spent a week there in 2013 in a Mesa suite and found our accommodations very comfortable.
This is a link to what it was like back then, before Apollo.








						DRI Sedona Summit Feb. 2013 - dougp26364
					

Sedona, AZ 1 bedroom Mesa Suite




					dougp26364.smugmug.com


----------



## pedro47 (Jun 27, 2022)

We have only stayed at three DRI Resorts: two in Williamsburg, Virginia
Powhatan Vacation Resort and Greensprings Vacation Resort.

One in Florida; Cypress Pointe Resort, in Orlando, Florida.

At that time they were all maintained very well. IMHO.


----------



## jabberwocky (Jun 27, 2022)

I haven’t stayed at a DRI resort; however, both my parents and my BIL have stayed at the Scottsdale Links resort at the same time we’ve been at Sheraton Desert Oasis.

The resort is generally in good shape and the units seemed clean and in good repair. Given the finishes (cabinetry, furniture, linens, appliances) I would put it a step below the HGVC that we’ve stayed at.  I much prefer the Vistana properties in Scottsdale (I’ve stayed at both SDO and WKV).


----------



## 90_Min_Sales_Pitch (Jun 28, 2022)

dougp26364 said:


> That’s to bad. Sedona Summit was one of the few DRI resorts that held interest for us. We had spent a week there in 2013 in a Mesa suite and found our accommodations very comfortable.
> This is a link to what it was like back then, before Apollo.
> 
> 
> ...



The property looks in much better shape from your photos.  The lights even work above the shower!   If I were to go glass is half full, much of the room was still in decent shape, the mattress was comfortable, the staff was always friendly, and we got a great deal.  Still, I would not stay here again unless we were in a bind, and maintain no interest in MAX.


----------



## dougp26364 (Jun 29, 2022)

90_Min_Sales_Pitch said:


> The property looks in much better shape from your photos.  The lights even work above the shower!   If I were to go glass is half full, much of the room was still in decent shape, the mattress was comfortable, the staff was always friendly, and we got a great deal.  Still, I would not stay here again unless we were in a bind, and maintain no interest in MAX.



When we were there in 2013, that timeframe should have been right around when DRI was updating the resort. For it to have gone downhill in only 9 years indicates to me that Apollo only took money from owners without putting much, if any, back into the resort.

If the joiner fee for MAX was in the $500 range, I’d have interest. At $7,000 or buy another week retail, I’m definitely not interested. With a 6 month booking window it’s doubtful I’d be able to get the unit, the view category or resorts we’d want to visit. If we couldn’t get what we wanted, now we’re down to 6 months with all other choices as well and that limits many of the choices we’d make with every other timeshare company. It’s very poorly conceived IMHO and I believe that those who excited about the possibilities today will be those complaining about the lack of availability tomorrow. Unless of course they’re only worried about getting any accommodation and/or studio units are fine for vacation


----------



## CalGalTraveler (Jun 29, 2022)

Although people say 6 months is worthless it is possible it may hold some value. The following booking scenario could occur: DRI owners start booking HGVC and then cancel their DRI reservations held in case they couldn't book HGVC which opens up DRI availability. The same could be true for HGVC.

A key underpinning is whether these are fee free changes. With MAX there are no cancellation and booking fees so perhaps they added this to MAX to make this more fluid between the two systems.

I am not sure how else they could set this up without upsetting HGVC and DRI owner priority. Just look at how upset everyone became at the prospect of a 10 month priority window; 6 months is a good compromise. I do wish they kept the enrollment fee for HGVC lower but perhaps this is designed to limit capacity because it appears the buy-in to DRI Max is higher than HGVC so they didn't want to create frustration with unbalanced inventory.


----------



## pedro47 (Jun 29, 2022)

IMHO, Hilton can used the present MF's collected to improve every DRI resort without an increase in MF's or a special assessments.


----------



## Nowaker (Jun 29, 2022)

CalGalTraveler said:


> Although people say 6 months is worthless it is possible it may hold some value.



I totally agree. While 6 months may be tough for the hottest locations, it's still enough to book something good. For example:

My Christmas/NYE stays in Vegas was booked only 30 days ahead. We're talking Paradise 2 BR, and Elara 2 BR Grand.
I also added another 3 night stay at Boulevard in 3 BR Plus only 1 day ahead. (Sudden change of plans - we were supposed to stay in Vegas, then drive to Ely, NV to visit Great Basin National Park, then come back to Vegas for NYE. But I wasn't aware Ely is at significantly higher elevation, and it was not only snowing in there, but tire chains were required to go there, lol)
My Marbrisa booking in 2 BR Premier for 1/2-6 was only 24 days ahead.
Las Palmeras booking in 2 BR for the spring break was only 109 days ahead. (OK, Las Palmeras is worse than Parc Soleil or Tuscany, but it's still okay, especially considering the spring break timing)
My Grand Waikikian booking for a week starting 2/23 in 1 BR Premier was only 91 days ahead.
My Maui booking for 3 nights starting 3/2 in 2 BR was only 42 days ahead. An opening of around 10 days showed up randomly and it aligned with my GW stay so I took 3 nights, and rebooked my flights and extended my Hawaii stay.
I also have around the same number of bookings that were booked 9 months out, some of which were walked. This proves booking DRI leftovers 6 months out isn't "worthless" because I was able to book HGVC leftovers 90, 60, 30, heck, even 1 day ahead!

Moreover, availability often frees as it gets closer to a given date. I had a 3 night booking at Sunrise Lodge booked 183 days ahead, and 1 BR Premier was the maximum I could get. Several days before my trip, there was even 4 BR Premier available for 5 days or so. And my Maui booking is also an example of that.


----------



## dougp26364 (Jun 29, 2022)

CalGalTraveler said:


> Although people say 6 months is worthless it is possible it may hold some value. The following booking scenario could occur: DRI owners start booking HGVC and then cancel their DRI reservations held in case they couldn't book HGVC which opens up DRI availability. The same could be true for HGVC.
> 
> A key underpinning is whether these are fee free changes. With MAX there are no cancellation and booking fees so perhaps they added this to MAX to make this more fluid between the two systems.
> 
> I am not sure how else they could set this up without upsetting HGVC and DRI owner priority. Just look at how upset everyone became at the prospect of a 10 month priority window; 6 months is a good compromise. I do wish they kept the enrollment fee for HGVC lower but perhaps this is designed to limit capacity because it appears the buy-in to DRI Max is higher than HGVC so they didn't want to create frustration with unbalanced inventory.



I didn’t say it’s worthless. I did say it’s worthless to me. I’ve owned DRI. I am accustomed to their booking windows and have a decent grasp on what’s available and when it’s available. When we go to Maui, we want the deluxe units that are listed as ocean front (some are really ocean side). At 6 months, that’s a tough reservation for February  or March. Sedona will have decent availability when we want to go, but we would want to be in one of the suites that have a view, and that might not be so easy.

It depends on what you’re expectations are and what’s acceptable. The sales staff ALWAYS tells you you can get the best of the best of the best. I feel they’re setting expectations to high. Banking of owners acting a certain way is more likely to lead to disappointing results.

HGVC should have left the DRI timeframe for club reservations at 10 months, then opened up reservations for MAX at 9 months. DRI owners would still have a head start and MAX members would also have a shot at decent inventory. At least that’s my opinion.

Regardless of the booking window, at $7,000 for a joiner fee, I’m out. The only way I’ll get MAX membership is if they present an offer on an additional week or an upgrade to what we currently own that’s to good to pass up.


----------



## pezdad (Jul 2, 2022)

I think it depends on the resort, as many Diamond properties were taken over from other companies. I have a week at Riviera Beach (CA) and it was run by a small company in a so-so fashion- not run down, but not exactly nice (and a very small property that will never be a “resort”. When Diamond took over, they raised fees and claimed they were fixing it up, but the only noticeable change was ripping out the small restaurant (the only place to get food on property) and replacing it with a Diamond sales center to try and pressure you into paying tens of thousands to convert your weeks to points.


----------



## dioxide45 (Jul 2, 2022)

pezdad said:


> I think it depends on the resort, as many Diamond properties were taken over from other companies. I have a week at Riviera Beach (CA) and it was run by a small company in a so-so fashion- not run down, but not exactly nice (and a very small property that will never be a “resort”. When Diamond took over, they raised fees and claimed they were fixing it up, but the only noticeable change was ripping out the small restaurant (the only place to get food on property) and replacing it with a Diamond sales center to try and pressure you into paying tens of thousands to convert your weeks to points.


That is what I don't understand. Where the money went from these big increases in fees when DRI took over resorts. I suspect there were a lot of bloated vendor contracts with "preferred vendors". Those bloated contracts also helped prop up the 15% management fee. Probably some big increases in fees in other areas like "Owner Services" which probably had some good margins over the actual cost to DRI for operating it. Would things have been different had Cloobeck not sold out?


----------



## Arusso (Jul 2, 2022)

dougp26364 said:


> It could be perception based on HGVC owner experience. We owned DRI for a number of years, dating back to 1998 with Polo Towers being our first two purchases (pre Sunterra buyout). I know there’s a difference and that difference is why we left DRI but kept Hilton. The resorts were so much dilapidated as they weren’t always 100%. Little things but we were paying higher fees than Hilton with lower quality IMHO.
> 
> So perhaps perception is playing a part in opinion. Still, if Hilton owners staying at DRI resorts have this opinion based on experience through Hilton ownership, I’d imagine Hilton management has the same view. This makes me wonder if DRI owners will see a repeat of the fee hikes and SA’s that occurred u dear the DRI flag initially. Personally, I can’t imagine it happening again. Especially since the #1 reason we deeded back our DRI deeds was over priced MF’s with to little going into reserve and to much going to management fee’s. Hilton, in my opinion, did a much better job of keeping their resorts maintained with reasonable fees. Hopefully they’ll rebalance where the MF money is going and puts the necessary funds into the resort rather than asking the owners to foot the bill


You hit the nail on the head !  The sequence of ownership you noted in your first post is all telling.  With the exception of Disney expanding into hospitality and entertainment territory new to them (cruises and vacation ownership),  when Sunterra surfaced, it was a nascent world of hotel branded resorts.  Sunterra improved the resorts it had acquired increasing  MF accordingly.  Sunterra then went on a spending spree and over-leveraged.  Cloobeck"s  DRI came to the rescue.  As you noted, many, many properties needed refurbishment and the owners paid for it with ever increasing MFs  (which included majority DRI HOA management fees as well).   In the end, the product did improve, but additional funding to raise the level of DRI properties to compete with the now BIG league of mega resort ownership was simply too much of a lift.  All this despite some of highest MFs in the market.  With the timing right, DRI sold to Apollo in June of 2016.  I believe mostly everyone on this forum recognized Apollo's business plan right from the beginning, it's their DNA.  It was to set up DRI for a sale to one of the big kahunas in the business.  Enter Hilton.  Sure enough last August it happened.  

Now what?  Well, we are seeing the laminated playbook unfold.  Some of the formerly branded  DRI resorts - those that were refurbished - are being rebranded HVC on a roll-out basis.  A couple, as I understand it from reading info posts on this forum,  will be rebranded to HGVC because their location, infrastructure, as well as their standard of excellence - are sufficient enough to garner this designation.  The rest?  Some will be sold, others resuscitated.  From what we are learning, (e.g. the HGV MAX program) the transition from DRI to HGV will undoubtedly come at greater cost to the DRI owner who wants stay in the game and remain competitive.  With inflation at a respectable 10% level and sure to rise, MFs will be passed along as well.  In the world of TS resorts, increasing costs passed on to owners is the unfortunate reality.


----------



## Arusso (Jul 2, 2022)

dioxide45 said:


> That is what I don't understand. Where the money went from these big increases in fees when DRI took over resorts. I suspect there were a lot of bloated vendor contracts with "preferred vendors". Those bloated contracts also helped prop up the 15% management fee. Probably some big increases in fees in other areas like "Owner Services" which probably had some good margins over the actual cost to DRI for operating it. Would things have been different had Cloobeck not sold out?


If memory serves, DRI was a privately held entity before it went public.  I'm not certain of the percentage of HOAs where the majority of the Directors were DRI-employees, but I believe the majority of HOAs were.  So it was easy to structure nebulous line-item expenses in the budget as "owner services" and pad the pockets of DRI management   It was cash cow and the stock price reflected it.  Cloobeck sold out because he realized that to stay in the game it would have required increasing funding and with some of the highest MFs in the industry, .........it could not be done.  The market was right for a sale to Apollo, so it happened.  But, this is my assessment and i could be completely incorrect.


----------



## GTStone (Jul 2, 2022)

Several years back we stayed at Los Abrigados in Sedona. The property was in a great setting. The rooms were really bad. We took the high pressure tour and saw a sample refurbished room and all the DRI promises. Our room was actually unsafe, dirty, and clearly below any minimum standards. Two years later we returned ( because we could get in for bargain rates ) to use it as a short term base to visit the area. The rooms had not been touched and half the amenities ( dining, pools, etc) had been shut down. We refused the tour and the lady was furious. They kept calling our room asking again and again. 

Another time we stayed at Cancun in Las Vegas. This was another property in need of some serious maintenance work though the rooms were better. 

I have friends who bought into DRI and fell for the sales and upgrade pitches. They don’t say much but I suspect its not workingbout as they were promised. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## eggmansr71 (Jul 2, 2022)

So for me, I enjoy the DRI resorts I have been to.  The issue for me is how Hilton will handle the rental side.  Currently, Diamond takes prime weeks and "reserves them for rental."  At a specified time, when they feel they can't rent them, they will put the inventory back in for the club.  It seems to be more common with 2 bedroom+ units.  The easy way to check this is if you are looking far enough in advance and there is no availability (Like thanksgiving week); look at Diamond rentals and see if the availability is there.  The cabins in Gattelenburg are prime for this too.  None for points, but you can rent one about any week.


----------



## heitmullerj02 (Jul 2, 2022)

I own HGVC @ Marbrisa, always nice. I have stayed @ Tuscany in Orlando. Also very nice. I live 2.5 hrs from Sedona and have stayed in every timeshare in town via RCI trade of my Vistana.  All the resorts are old, some better than others. Maybe Hilton is going to use the 7K its charging its existing members for the upgrade to access the DRI resorts? I laughed in the salespersons face when she said I would not have any access if I did not pay! However if enough people do, it's a pool of money for them to use. Really the only one I felt bad about  missing was Maui. So I traded to lagoon tower  HGVC for my HI trip.


----------



## Arusso (Jul 2, 2022)

dioxide45 said:


> If the fees at DRI resorts were high and they haven't been actively renovating on a 5/10 or 6/12 schedule, there should be plenty of cash sitting in reserves ready to be spent on renovations. If it isn't, where is it?


I believe you know the answer to that question.


----------



## Arusso (Jul 2, 2022)

dougp26364 said:


> One of the reasons we left DRI was the lack of funds being placed into the cash reserve fund. Polo Towers was only putting around $50 for a 2 bedroom unit whereas Hilton was north of $100. The money was going into “other” pockets.


It was a cash cow diverted to management.  When it was realized that it would take many $$$ to be competitive with the branded hotel resort TS companies,  DRI bailed.  I believe Apollo paid too much in June 2016 for what they got and what they needed to do.  They are in the turn-around business but probably underestimated the amount of $$$ needed.  Nevertheless,  Hilton is a serious company and knows that to get quality it takes $$$.  The $$$ will come from the current owners just to stay par and they must improve the product to be able to sell at a higher price to newbees.


----------



## veradem (Jul 5, 2022)

dougp26364 said:


> I keep reading that the DRI resorts have seen better days and in need of maintenance. We haven’t been DRI owners for many years but this makes me both sad and happy. Happy we paid the fees to bail out several years ago and sad they’ve fallen back into disrepair.
> When DRI bought out Sunterra, most, if not all of these resorts were in need of a lot of attention. MF’s skyrocketed and SA’s weren’t uncommon. They brought all the resorts up to “DRI standards” at great owner expense. It’s a shame that it appears Apollo has allowed them to fall back again.
> Now the cycle appears to begin over again with Hilton needing to bring them up to Hilton standards. Maybe not Grand standards, but something Hilton is willing to put their name on. Knowing no management company spends money out of their own pocket, I’m beginning to wonder what this latest incarnation of Sunterra/DRI/HVC is going to cost owners of these included resorts and what’s going to happen to owners of the resorts Hilton doesn’t wish to keep?


----------



## veradem (Jul 5, 2022)

We have been members of Sunterra, then DRI since 2001. We bought 2 weeks at Flamingo Beach in St. Maarten because we really enjoyed the island. The resort is not fancy but there used to be the same owners coming each year until they stopped. The resort started disappointing us when their security didn't police non-members using the facilities, especially the pool and a restaurant was plopped right in front of some units on the beach. The restauranteur was seen peeing in the parking lot. It would anger us when we found out that they were renting units for $700 a week when we paid over $2500 in maintenance fees for 2 weeks. We also paid weekly tax to the St. Maarten government. Long time owners started giving up their timeshare units.
Ever since the hurricane hit and did severe damage, we have not visited so we don't know what the current place looks like. We paid extra to go on the Points system totally in order to avoid any special assessments after the hurricane and because it was less expensive to pay our maintenance fees as Points owners rather that deeded unit owners. 
I have always warned my friends about the salespeople for DRI. They always have booths at the Waste Management Open in Scottsdale and entice people with their inexpensive stays. Their owner updates are always sales pitches with little substantive information given. Our sales encounter   in VA Beach, when we converted to Points, lasted 5 hours.
We never liked Cloobeck, especially after his appearance on the TV show "Undercover Boss". I'll say no more. When DRI was pitching its sale to Apollo Group, the DRI management was emphasizing its great return on investment on the properties it owned. No wonder, they charged its owners exorbitant management fees.
I don't want to leave with a totally negative impression of all of their resorts. We found Scottsdale Links to be nice and very conveniently located to the Waste Management Open, the most widely attended golf tournament in the world. We also enjoyed our stay in Sedona at Sedona Summit in 2021 although we had to spend too many points to stay there. Our daughter's efficiency unit was very small but our 2 bedroom with 2 baths was luxurious.  We did not have the same positive feelings about the 2 Virginia Beach resorts. i.e. Beach Quarters and Ocean Beach Club.
In many ways, your enjoyment of the facility depends on what level of luxury you are accustomed to and who you meet when you are there.  None of our stays with DRI can compare to our Marriott ownership resort at the Manor Club in Williamsburg or our stays at Marriott resorts in Marbella, Spain, Newport Coast. CA etc. You may pay more to buy into Marriott and similar brands, but your maintenance fees are far less.


----------



## Arusso (Jul 5, 2022)

pedro47 said:


> We have only stayed at three DRI Resorts: two in Williamsburg, Virginia
> Powhatan Vacation Resort and Greensprings Vacation Resort.
> 
> One in Florida; Cypress Pointe Resort, in Orlando, Florida.
> ...


That is true today, but when Sunterra began to have some financial problems they let maintenance and refurbishment go.  MFs then were average for the industry.  We are most familiar with PR and GR but have stayed in CPR on a couple of occasions when it was still Sunterra. MFs then were average for the industry.  That, of course is not true today.  While both PR and GR returned to the early Sunterra days, under DRI the MFs doubled.


----------



## Arusso (Jul 5, 2022)

veradem said:


> We have been members of Sunterra, then DRI since 2001. We bought 2 weeks at Flamingo Beach in St. Maarten because we really enjoyed the island. The resort is not fancy but there used to be the same owners coming each year until they stopped. The resort started disappointing us when their security didn't police non-members using the facilities, especially the pool and a restaurant was plopped right in front of some units on the beach. The restauranteur was seen peeing in the parking lot. It would anger us when we found out that they were renting units for $700 a week when we paid over $2500 in maintenance fees for 2 weeks. We also paid weekly tax to the St. Maarten government. Long time owners started giving up their timeshare units.
> Ever since the hurricane hit and did severe damage, we have not visited so we don't know what the current place looks like. We paid extra to go on the Points system totally in order to avoid any special assessments after the hurricane and because it was less expensive to pay our maintenance fees as Points owners rather that deeded unit owners.
> I have always warned my friends about the salespeople for DRI. They always have booths at the Waste Management Open in Scottsdale and entice people with their inexpensive stays. Their owner updates are always sales pitches with little substantive information given. Our sales encounter   in VA Beach, when we converted to Points, lasted 5 hours.
> We never liked Cloobeck, especially after his appearance on the TV show "Undercover Boss". I'll say no more. When DRI was pitching its sale to Apollo Group, the DRI management was emphasizing its great return on investment on the properties it owned. No wonder, they charged its owners exorbitant management fees.
> ...


Yep......your story, I'm afraid is shared by many.  We became founding members of Club Sunterra and were allotted points for our deeded weeks in Feb 2000.  At the time, we saw value in flexibility and the buy-in was reasonable.  As for FBR (and it's sister resort on Airport Rd,  RPR).  We like SXM as well.  As for FBR (and it's sister resort on Airport Rd,  RPR), I do not own, but follow the FB blog to gather info on what's happening there.  Both resorts were gutter after Irma inflicted substantial damage.  From the photos and the description of visitors there, DRI did a good job in refitting and updating the existing physical space from bare walls.  Toppers, the restaurant that was built on the beach that had obscured several ocean view units, was torn down.  Of course, the sad, often repeated story, is that it's possible to rent and stay in a unit there for less than the yearly MFs.  Save for some unique resorts, this is a recurring theme made possible in today's market with so many choices none of which require a purchase to play the game.  The good news for FB and RPR owners is that they were not hit with a special assessment because it is reported that the property covered enough insurance the cost of a rebuild.  This is not always the case when resorts suffer damage from natural disasters.  The Scottsdale Mirage was always a nice resort as was the Oceanaire in Virginia Beach when this family of properties became available.  It was clean and properly maintained albeit small accommodations even for a 2 BR unit.   Overall, DRI improved the experience over the prior owner by attending to maintenance and replacement issues that had been neglected in addition to increasing the portfolio of resorts.  The bad news is that all this was paid for by owners and Hilton paid a generous price back in June 2016 when it acquired DRI.


----------



## escanoe (Jul 5, 2022)

Arusso said:


> That is true today, but when Sunterra began to have some financial problems they let maintenance and refurbishment go.  MFs then were average for the industry.  We are most familiar with PR and GR but have stayed in CPR on a couple of occasions when it was still Sunterra. MFs then were average for the industry.  That, of course is not true today.  While both PR and GR returned to the early Sunterra days, under DRI the MFs doubled.



Considering this is the HGVC forum (and HGVC trades in RCI) a bunch of these II codes (or what I think are II codes) don't mean much to me. I even have an II ownership and do not know how to quickly decipher II codes. Anyone have a decoder ring to help read the last couple of posts?


----------



## Nowaker (Jul 5, 2022)

escanoe said:


> Considering this is the HGVC forum (and HGVC trades in RCI) a bunch of these II codes (or what I think are II codes) don't mean much to me. I even have an II ownership and do not know how to quickly decipher II codes. Anyone have decoder ring to help read the last few posts?



+1, I understood none of these, but given my little interest in DRI, I didn't even care to look it up.

The furthest I can go with codes like that is HHV and HWV for Hawaiian and Waikoloa respectively. And BC and KL for Bay Club and Kings Land is already too much for me.

I really enjoy the fact we're using full resort names here. It's so hard to decipher other forums.


----------



## Arusso (Jul 6, 2022)

escanoe said:


> Considering this is the HGVC forum (and HGVC trades in RCI) a bunch of these II codes (or what I think are II codes) don't mean much to me. I even have an II ownership and do not know how to quickly decipher II codes. Anyone have a decoder ring to help read the last couple of posts?


Got it.  This forum is a meld of existing HGVC/HVC and the newly acquired DRI resort owners that are being assimilated into the Hilton world.  My response to ....veraem,  who had commented on Flamingo Beach Resort (FBR).  RPR = Royal Palms Resort.  Since Hilton uses RCI as it's exchange affiliate, we will need to get used to their three letter ID for  designators.  However, we former DRI folks were put into a home-grown exchange program launched at the end of 2020 called Destination Exchange.  DRI was terminating its relationship with II and was creating the DEX system in anticipation of the Hilton acquisition.  We do not have a standing RCI membership per se.  Rather,  the DEX system groups some DRI resorts and what are called "affiliates."   This latter group are resort properties exchanged through the RCI system.  It will be interesting to see if DEX will continue to exists into the future as is or whether Hilton will simplify things after all the DRI acquired resorts are rebranded.


----------



## escanoe (Jul 6, 2022)

Arusso said:


> Got it.  This forum is a meld of existing HGVC/HVC and the newly acquired DRI resort owners that are being assimilated into the Hilton world.  My response to ....veraem,  who had commented on Flamingo Beach Resort (FBR).  RPR = Royal Palms Resort.  Since Hilton uses RCI as it's exchange affiliate, we will need to get used to their three letter ID for  designators.  However, we former DRI folks were put into a home-grown exchange program launched at the end of 2020 called Destination Exchange.  DRI was terminating its relationship with II and was creating the DEX system in anticipation of the Hilton acquisition.  We do not have a standing RCI membership per se.  Rather,  the DEX system groups some DRI resorts and what are called "affiliates."   This latter group are resort properties exchanged through the RCI system.  It will be interesting to see if DEX will continue to exists into the future as is or whether Hilton will simplify things after all the DRI acquired resorts are rebranded.



The beauty of the unmeaningful numbers and letters that are RCI codes is no one uses them in normal conversation. They just cite the name of the resort on a public forum, and all can know (or easily research) what is being discussed. Yes, you will get some HHV (Hilton Hawaiian Village) in a Hawaii thread, but referring to the name (at least on first usage of an abbreviation) makes the conversation much more democratic.


----------

