# New DC DVC in the works?



## Aviator621 (May 21, 2009)

Just saw this in the Washington Post--Disney is buying land at National Harbor:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/05/18/AR2009051803201.html?hpid=topnews


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## Aviator621 (May 24, 2009)

A more detailed look at the project was posted on Yesterland:

http://www.yesterland.com/harbor.html


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## icydog (May 31, 2009)

I never knew about that Yesterland site. It is really interesting. Thanks

I wish Disney had been able to build a theme park in VA as was planned when we bought into DVC 18 years ago. This new place would be an ideal location for some DVC villas.. I hope they consider that in their planning.


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## Culli (Jun 3, 2009)

I really don't get DVC off of WDW or WDL.........they are nice places but for the prices there are so much better and cheaper options.  Sorry but if I'm not staying on grounds I prefer a Marriott or the newer Wyndham resorts.  Not sure what DVC can offer the DC area, I read the article and I'm staying at Wyndham before using my DVC pts in that area.  Just don't get it


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## icydog (Jun 3, 2009)

Culli said:


> I really don't get DVC off of WDW or WDL.........they are nice places but for the prices there are so much better and cheaper options.  Sorry but if I'm not staying on grounds I prefer a Marriott or the newer Wyndham resorts.  Not sure what DVC can offer the DC area, I read the article and I'm staying at Wyndham before using my DVC pts in that area.  Just don't get it



You're absolutely correct. That's why Disney won't build a DVC there.


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## FlyKaesan (Jun 17, 2009)

They might not build it from scrach but I think they are interested in purchasing Six flags which is doing really terrible and about to shut down.  IMHO.


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## icydog (Jun 17, 2009)

*I wonder??*

I read an Orlando Sentinel article in which they postulate that Disney Vacation Club will be part of the new DC development plans. I think it would be kind of cool to be able to use my points so close to home. That said, Disney almost lost their proverbial shirt on HH and VB so I don't see why they would be building vacation club units at this location.


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## Lisa P (Jun 17, 2009)

This will be their first urban destination.  Marriott, HGVC and Wyndham have all been quite successful in selling their urban resorts, with many owners loving the option for some of their vacation stays.  It will be interesting to see how well Disney transitions their resort model to an urban destination.



FlyKaesan said:


> They might not build it from scrach but I think they are interested in purchasing Six flags which is doing really terrible and about to shut down.  IMHO.


A costly Six Flags revamp would require a whole new park design.  Why would you think Disney would be interested in another seasonal location for an additional park?  Is this personal speculation or is there some source of a rumor?


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## Aviator621 (Jun 18, 2009)

Maybe they'll use the Six Flags property to finally build the Disney's America concept (ah, wishful thinking  )


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## ecwinch (Sep 7, 2009)

Aviator621 said:


> Maybe they'll use the Six Flags property to finally build the Disney's America concept (ah, wishful thinking  )



The original Disney America was a Michael Eisner vanity project. Like you, I could see a resort there, but not a theme park.


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## bnoble (Sep 7, 2009)

> It will be interesting to see how well Disney transitions their resort model to an urban destination.


They haven't really been successful away from WDW.  Even the DLR resort is selling slowly.  It will be interesting to see if Hawaii does any better.


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## littlestar (Sep 7, 2009)

bnoble said:


> They haven't really been successful away from WDW.  Even the DLR resort is selling slowly.  It will be interesting to see if Hawaii does any better.



Very true. DVC's strength is in their theming and away from the parks, I just don't know if they can make it pay off.

We bought our Marriott because of the consistent quality we could count on with Marriott. We only use our DVC points for a once a year stay on property at WDW. Our other two trips to Orlando we usually stay at Marriott or occasionally Sheraton. 

When we go to Hilton Head and have the choice of either trading our Marriott or using DVC points, the family prefers Marriott because of the sheer comfort factor.


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## Carl D (Sep 7, 2009)

bnoble said:


> Even the DLR resort is selling slowly.


This resort could sell very quickly if DVC wanted to market it. They seem to be paying attention to BLT, and to a lessor extent SSR and AKV. There is really little marketing effort placed on the Villas at Grand Californian. Many say the reduced price shows the desire to sell, and that may be true to a point. Truth is, even at the reduced pricing it's still an expensive resort due to the high point requirements.


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## bnoble (Sep 7, 2009)

To be honest, I thought the DLR property would sell like hotcakes, even at the inflated point requrements.  The west coast is a big market, and while DLR's hotels don't have the same geographical advantages that WDW's do, I always assumed that there were enough west coasters for whom "only Disney will do" to support it---and the resort is _small_, but even so, it seems as though DVD over-reached with the point charts/pricing to start.

I don't know that DVD is paying attention to BLT so much as they under-pointed/priced it (if that's possible).  At least, that's how I read the upcoming price increase that's going to apply _only_ to BLT.

I suspect that part of the reason Disney is being so hush-hush about what's really going on in DC is that they are waiting to see how Hawaii sells, and whether or not they've fixed what they did wrong with VB and HHI.  If they've finally cracked the non-WDW nut, then look for at least part of the DC development to go to DVD.  If not, either the land will quietly be resold, or it will be a more conventional hotel property in lines with Iger's stated desire to develop "destination resorts" away from the theme parks.


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## Carl D (Sep 7, 2009)

bnoble said:


> To be honest, I thought the DLR property would sell like hotcakes, even at the inflated point requrements.  The west coast is a big market, and while DLR's hotels don't have the same geographical advantages that WDW's do, I always assumed that there were enough west coasters for whom "only Disney will do" to support it---and the resort is _small_, but even so, it seems as though DVD over-reached with the point charts/pricing to start.


Well, DLR is a different animal than WDW. Many DLR faithfuls only know of many day trips every year. 
The concept of traveling thousands of miles and staying overnight is a somewhat new demographic for DLR guests. Even on our visits there it was obvious they were not accustomed to guests actually making Disneyland Resort a full vacation.
However, I do believe this is changing, and DVC is part of that change.


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## bnoble (Sep 8, 2009)

For SoCal folks, you're right---it's a day trip.  But, lots of Bay Area folks and those from surrounding states have to make at least a weekend of it, and those were the people I had in mind.


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## tomandrobin (Sep 8, 2009)

I have never been to DL, but I too had expected better sales for VGC. I knew that the average visit was a day or two, but the lack of interest is surprising.


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## GadgetRick (Sep 8, 2009)

bnoble said:


> The west coast is a big market, and while DLR's hotels don't have the same geographical advantages that WDW's do, I always assumed that there were enough west coasters for whom "only Disney will do" to support it---and the resort is _small_, but even so, it seems as though DVD over-reached with the point charts/pricing to start.



I think the bigger problem is, although it's a big market, it's really not nearly as big as it is for DW. Keep in mind, 2/3 of the population of the US lives between DC and Boston. That means, 2/3 of the population is within driving distance. That's a HUGE market.

Also, DL is a much different feel than DW. DL feels more like a theme park (although it's Disney through and through) rather than a destination with so much to do. Easy to spend a week in DW and never be able to do everything. Spend a couple of days in DL and you can do everything. No knocking it as I love DL but it's just different.

Add to that how everything butts right up against DL and you just can't get the total immersion they get in DW (that's why they quietly bought up so much land in FL remember?).

DL definately has more day trippers than DW. I think that's the biggest problem.


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## bnoble (Sep 8, 2009)

Sure, there are a lot of day trippers, but anyone visiting from the Bay Area or surrounding states has to at least make a weekend of it.  At least, that was my thinking.  There's certainly enough hotel traffic in the area, and from what I understand the WorldMark is doing well there too.  But clearly Disney and I were both wrong about the potential for DVC in DLR.  I'm guessing that Disney is very glad that they didn't build more units to start.

They've never replicated their gold mine away from Orlando, but they sure seem to be willing to try.  I hope they manage to pull it off, but their track record isn't too strong.


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## BocaBum99 (Sep 8, 2009)

DVC works in WDW because the resort experience is part of the Disney World experience.  People are willing to pay 10 times more than alternatives to stay on property to be fully consumed by all that is Disney.  

Until Disney decides to spend trillions of dollars to build more Disney Worlds, the niche DVC product is done in Orlando.  I can't wait to see how Disney does on Oahu.  I think it will be full of renters.  Who goes to Hawaii thinking Disney?

There are so many great places to stay and so many other theme parks in Southern California, Anaheim isn't even in the top 100 preferred destinations for travelers.  I'd rather stay on the beach and drive to Disneyland for the day.


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## littlestar (Sep 8, 2009)

I really hope they can pull it off, too. 

I was looking through Trip Advisor reviews the other day and I was so glad to see that my home resort Marriott at Branson had the upgraded bedding like the traditional Marriotts have - the high end linens with the silky feeling comforter at the end of the bed. It's strange, but the Marriott branding and quality is something I rely on when I go on vacation. It's like a signature - the Maze, the bedding package, etc.

I wish DVC could really put their signature on the interiors as far as comfort the way Marriott does. DVC does an outstanding job as far as theming - their resorts are fun to stay at. But it's interwoven with the park experience at WDW and that may be why it's so successful there. 

DVC has improved their linens quite a bit over the last few years. I remember staying at OKW a couple of years ago and having holes in my sheets and they were quite thin, too. They've improved that. But I'd still pick a Marriott bed any day over a DVC bed. I like Sheraton's beds, too. 

It should be interesting to watch what happens with DVC Hawaii.


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## bnoble (Sep 8, 2009)

> I wish DVC could really put their signature on the interiors as far as comfort the way Marriott does.


The problem is that Disney, viewed strictly as a hotelier, is distinctly average.  They build beautifully themed properties, with stunning common areas, but the rooms themselves are nothing special at all---average soft goods, average furnishings, average (to below average) space, average average average.  

The notion seems to be that they expect you to use the room only for sleeping, and nothing else.

This extends to the timeshare propreties too---take a good look at the 2BR units at many of them.  You can barely put four people around any one table for a meal there, let alone the eight they claim to sleep.

The good news is that at the hotel properties, they've been doing some significant upgrading.  The new rooms at the Contemporary and Coronado Springs both look quite nice.  Hopefully this can extend up the food chain.


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## Twinkstarr (Sep 8, 2009)

littlestar said:


> I really hope they can pull it off, too.
> 
> I was looking through Trip Advisor reviews the other day and I was so glad to see that my home resort Marriott at Branson had the upgraded bedding like the traditional Marriotts have - the high end linens with the silky feeling comforter at the end of the bed. It's strange, but the Marriott branding and quality is something I rely on when I go on vacation. It's like a signature - the Maze, the bedding package, etc.
> 
> ...




That's my view also, DVC rooms have a lot to be desired in respect to functional space. While we stayed at Sheraton Broadway Plantation, the landscaping/pool area couldn't hold a candle to SSR,VB or any DVC, but the villa was great. Huge dining table, that you could actually have everyone sit around. Kitchen much more functional that you could actually cook something in. Linens of higher quality and the bed imho was much more comfortable than the ones at DVC.


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## BocaBum99 (Sep 8, 2009)

bnoble said:


> The problem is that Disney, viewed strictly as a hotelier, is distinctly average.  They build beautifully themed properties, with stunning common areas, but the rooms themselves are nothing special at all---average soft goods, average furnishings, average (to below average) space, average average average.
> 
> The notion seems to be that they expect you to use the room only for sleeping, and nothing else.
> 
> ...



I completely agree.  Notice how everyone who loves Disney focuses on the "theming" at the resorts.  That's because Disney takes their eyes off of the resort and into the ether of the Disney experience.  That's okay because they are great at it.  But, if the same resort were in another destination apart from the resorts, Disney resorts are rather average.

This is the reason why I believe Disney will have trouble in Hawaii.  When I think Disney, I think Mickey Mouse. When I think Hawaii, I think beaches and luaus and hula dancers.  Disney may put those features into the resort experience.  But, it certainly won't be authentic.  I've never seen a luau with a theme park character.

Who knows.  Maybe it will work.  If it doesn't, I hope they have great Kama'aina rates for unused units.  I'm sure it will be a fun resort no matter.  It just probably won't be worth the Premium Disney commands around WDW.


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## bnoble (Sep 8, 2009)

> Disney may put those features into the resort experience. But, it certainly won't be authentic. I've never seen a luau with a theme park character.


There is hope.  I believe Joe Rohde is the lead Imagineer on the Hawaii DVC project.  He was the creative lead at Animal Kingdom, and that park has sections that are much more "real" than anything else Disney has done, before or since.  Comapre it to Tony Baxter's Disneyland Paris, which is stunningly beautiful, but ersatz in every respect.  In particular, Joe did Expeditition Everest, spending months with his team in the Himalayas to get the details just so.  Just walking through the queue for that attraction is worth it.

If they do it right, it will be great.  But, they've got to do it right.


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## bnoble (Sep 8, 2009)

I'm also hearing great things about the Adventures by Disney guided tours.  Very low on the shmaltz factor, first class itineraries, and very much connected to the localities they visit.  The most recent issue of D23 had a piece on the tour they do through the Italian and Swiss Alps, and it sounded fantastic.

So, they do seem to understand that not everything is princesses and pixie dust.  Whether they can strike the right balance with Hawaii---given their established owner base that _expects_ princesses and pixie dust at every turn---will be the big question.


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## Twinkstarr (Sep 8, 2009)

BocaBum99 said:


> I completely agree.  Notice how everyone who loves Disney focuses on the "theming" at the resorts.  That's because Disney takes their eyes off of the resort and into the ether of the Disney experience.  That's okay because they are great at it.  But, if the same resort were in another destination apart from the resorts, Disney resorts are rather average.
> 
> This is the reason why I believe Disney will have trouble in Hawaii.  When I think Disney, I think Mickey Mouse. When I think Hawaii, I think beaches and luaus and hula dancers.  Disney may put those features into the resort experience.  But, it certainly won't be authentic.  I've never seen a luau with a theme park character.
> 
> Who knows.  Maybe it will work.  If it doesn't, I hope they have great Kama'aina rates for unused units.  I'm sure it will be a fun resort no matter.  It just probably won't be worth the Premium Disney commands around WDW.




I'm sure we are going to see a hula dancing Minnie there! 

I think upper mgmt is thinking along the lines of the cruise line. They charge top dollar, especially for their non 3/4 day cruises. I'm a Disney fan, but I can't see spending the extra when I know I'll get better food, great service, and kids programs on Princess,HAL, RCCL and Celebrity etc. 

But you know as well as I do, a lot of people put Disney=family friendly together and while they do a great job with it, I think people who wear the Disney blinders are limiting themselves, as there are lots of great non-Disney family resorts to choose from all over this country.


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## bnoble (Sep 8, 2009)

It's interesting you mention the cruise line, because, to me, DCL can't figure out what it wants to be.  It's marketed as "mainline Disney"---characters, pirate dance party, etc.  But, so much of the ship and Castaway Cay are built around *separating* family members---the teens-only and adults-only sections, leave the little kids with us.  It's a very different philosophy than the theme parks' families playing together.


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## Carl D (Sep 8, 2009)

Actually, I find the Deluxe Disney hotels including DVC to be well above average. Now don't get me wrong, I said above average, not better than The Ritz. 
That said, the quality of DVC rooms have improved quite a bit starting with Animal Kingdom Villas. The Villas at Grand Californian look beautiful.


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## Carl D (Sep 8, 2009)

Just to clarify, I was talking about the room interiors. The exterior buildings and grounds have always been superior IMO.


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