# Trying to Purchase a Home in COVID-19 - Continually Lose Out, with Offers over Asking Price?



## Sugarcubesea (Aug 20, 2020)

Hi Everyone,

I have now bid on over 20 homes, all over asking price and still can not get chosen as the winner. People are offering $25K over asking price on a home that will never appraise that high based on comps.

I don't want to put my house on the market as I want to ensure I have a place to move to, as the homes in my sub have all sold within 5 days of listing...


I'm looking for a condo with a pool and amenities
or
a small  ranch home (with little to no maintenance) with lake access or lake view

I'm in MI, in the western part of the metro detroit area, any suggestions from my TUG friends?


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## Country Roads (Aug 20, 2020)

Conventional loans have risen and actually come with less strict appraisal and property requirements than do FHA, VA or USDA loans.

As higher priced sales goes up, property values go up. this will affect the entire market. Many lenders work with their own appraisers that they know will appraise a property on the high, so to speak, end of the spectrum. 

I have several friends looking to buy and a certain house may be there one day and gone the next. Not a good time buy a home however, an excellent time to sell one.


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## Panina (Aug 20, 2020)

Are there any new construction you can get?  I know the frustration as all the good stuff in Florida was gone in a day.  Even here in SC homes a home in my community on my block sold in one day.  I think people just are willing to pay more to move on quickly and have a home where they want.  Priorities have changed. 

I am glad I found new construction but even in the few days I was deciding inventory reduced significantly.


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## bogey21 (Aug 20, 2020)

It may not be what you are looking for but buying new construction from the builder seems to have a level of certainty...

George


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## easyrider (Aug 20, 2020)

When a person has lost out on so many offers it is usually the realtor they are using is not so good or they are not using a realtor at all.

Bill


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## TravelTime (Aug 20, 2020)

easyrider said:


> When a person has lost out on so many offers it is usually the realtor they are using is not so good or they are not using a realtor at all.
> 
> Bill



Or he is bidding too low. If he says homes are going for $25K over asking, then he needs to bid more to get one.


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## klpca (Aug 20, 2020)

Our market is not your market so ymmv but here is what is happening here. A fixer went on the market and had 28 full price or higher CASH offers. It was priced super low to get everyone into a buying frenzy. It sold for about 20% above asking - to one of the cash offers. (We have friends trying to buy right now so we get all of the juicy details). Cash is king.

1. Are you working with a well connected agent? They can tell you about places before they hit the market so you can get in ahead of other buyers.
2. Could you sell your house with a 30 day or 60 day rent back clause? I suspect that sellers aren't even considering contingent offers right now. They don't really have to when there are multiple non-contingent offers.
3. Consider buying during the holidays. Those are your serious sellers. They need to move or they wouldn't list during that time of year. This would work better for you if you were renting back from your buyers. Sellers love a fast closing - less time for things to go south.
4. When you write the letter that gets included in the offer, make sure that the seller knows how much you love their house. They have an emotional attachment to their home and would like to sell to someone who feels the same (even if you are going to gut it shortly after you move in).
5. Also, time to pare down your contingencies when making your offer. Make it as few as possible.
6. If you really love a place don't lose it over a few thousand $$. When we bought the condo for our daughter to live in we bumped up our offer by $3k, which essentially got clawed back during the HOA financials inspection. (Our two contingencies were inspection and HOA financials - and the HOA is poorly funded. Based upon what we have heard from the HOA meetings I think that we are looking at a special assessment shortly). So in the end we paid less than we offered. You can't negotiate if your offer isn't accepted. The time to be economical is during subsequent negotiations, not on your initial offer. You are offering based upon what you see. You negotiate upon the factual condition once you have had an inspection completed. If everything is as advertised then the offer was fair, as it stands. If there were undisclosed issues, you can account for those in your credit negotiations.

Our friends finally got a house in escrow. They were the first ones to see it on the day that it hit the market, and and the sellers agent and the buyers agent got along well during the initial phone conversation. The sellers agent also liked our friend when he went to look at it. They submitted an offer (of course asking+) the same afternoon that they saw the house. There were two other offers. Our friends think that the agent liking them may have been the tiebreaker when choosing between offers, but who knows.

Good luck in this crazy market!


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## Brett (Aug 20, 2020)

Sugarcubesea said:


> Hi Everyone,
> 
> I have now bid on over 20 homes, all over asking price and still can not get chosen as the winner. People are offering $25K over asking price on a home that will never appraise that high based on comps.
> 
> ...



My mother's condo in northern Virginia has been on the market for several months - only one offer


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## WinniWoman (Aug 20, 2020)

Wow. I cannot believe you are still at this. Must be so frustrating! If I recall correctly you are selling your house to reduce expenses so that when you finally retire you can move to Florida. 

What about moving into a rental? I have no clue what that market is like where you live but maybe that could be an option.

I know an issue with new construction is that, too, is very expensive.


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## Patri (Aug 20, 2020)

Same is true in my area. Inventory is at 50%. Homes are going over asking with multiple offers. My son lost out on one they bid on. The caveat is that, at least here, realtors think it is a short term sellers market. By spring they expect many more wary sellers (because of covid) to put their homes on the market. Then it will become a buyers market. I want my son to wait. The houses going today will be hard-pressed to be worth even the same $ in the future.
I doubt it is any realtor's fault. People should not be encouraged to bid more than a house is truly worth in the long haul, or what they can afford.


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## DazedandConfused (Aug 20, 2020)

Sell your home, then rent and get ready to travel....the best time to sell is during a hot sellers market. 

There really is no significant reason to OWN these days unless you don't like to travel and want to be tied down somewhere for a long time.


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## Fredflintstone (Aug 20, 2020)

My suggestion is to wait about 12 months. Almost 10 percent of mortgages are in forebearance. Once these extensions are gone, many will not be able to pay the back payments and will be foreclosed on. This means the supply will outstrip the demand and prices will lower.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## klpca (Aug 20, 2020)

Fredflintstone said:


> My suggestion is to wait about 12 months. Almost 10 percent of mortgages are in forebearance. Once these extensions are gone, many will not be able to pay the back payments and will be foreclosed on. This means the supply will outstrip the demand and prices will lower.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


Let's hope. The prices in this market are just unbelievable. If you are in it for the long haul you are probably all right. If you are trying to flip something I would be worried.


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## Fredflintstone (Aug 20, 2020)

klpca said:


> Let's hope. The prices in this market are just unbelievable. If you are in it for the long haul you are probably all right. If you are trying to flip something I would be worried.



I agree. The only question is have is whether increased prices are due to the erosion of the dollar due to unlimited creation? If so, it’s a hedge against inflation and you will benefit over the long haul. 


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## cgeidl (Aug 20, 2020)

The prices in our area have gone up slowly and some are not back to the 2008 high. Even so the market is now rising quickly for the first time in years. Large homes which were not popular suddenly are becoming the wanted product especially for,people finding they will be able to,work from home. Techies moving from renting in  the city to the suburbs want a gym and video room and are finding the suburbs very desirable especially in the San Francisco Bay Area. I would
our 5 bedroom rental but the 2.25 % interest level provides a large profit.Just looked At the cost of a total cost of a 30: $362000 loan at 2.25% loan to be a bit over $500000. The amount invested in stocks at a 10% return would be 5 1/2 million dollars. Not a bad loan to keep.


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## am1 (Aug 20, 2020)

I am waiting for sales while watching my income and assets decline.


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## tiel (Aug 20, 2020)

Our townhouse sold in 1.5 hours after hitting the market.  Full asking price, CASH, no contingencies, no inspections.  We accepted immediately.  They didn’t even do a walkthrough before settlement. We thought the buyers were crazy, but they just wanted THAT house, and we just wanted it sold so we could move on.  Everybody was happy.  But the CASH aspect sealed the deal for us.


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## Panina (Aug 20, 2020)

Fredflintstone said:


> My suggestion is to wait about 12 months. Almost 10 percent of mortgages are in forebearance. Once these extensions are gone, many will not be able to pay the back payments and will be foreclosed on. This means the supply will outstrip the demand and prices will lower.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


Taking a mortgage that needs to be factored in too.  The rates are so low instead of paying for a house in cash you can do better investing it.


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## Fredflintstone (Aug 20, 2020)

Panina said:


> Taking a mortgage that needs to be factored in too. The rates are so low instead of paying for a house in cash you can do better investing it.



Yes, I agree for now. However, investments may collapse again. IMO, it’s being propped by the Fed. Once the fed cuts the strings ...






In that case, oh my. However, with possible inflation one of the best things to be in is real estate. As inflation rises, so do home values. 

Also, I do believe rates will remain this low for awhile given the deficits. So, there is time to buy.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## klpca (Aug 20, 2020)

Fredflintstone said:


> I agree. The only question is have is whether increased prices are due to the erosion of the dollar due to unlimited creation? If so, it’s a hedge against inflation and you will benefit over the long haul.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


In our market it is driven by a housing shortage, especially in the starter home category. Almost all of the new build inventory are either huge, expensive homes on postage stamp lots or high density condos and townhomes. No small single family homes anywhere. So if you are looking for a normal single family you have to look at existing inventory - and that is a fixed amount of inventory.


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## Sugarcubesea (Aug 20, 2020)

Panina said:


> Are there any new construction you can get?  I know the frustration as all the good stuff in Florida was gone in a day.  Even here in SC homes a home in my community on my block sold in one day.  I think people just are willing to pay more to move on quickly and have a home where they want.  Priorities have changed.
> 
> I am glad I found new construction but even in the few days I was deciding inventory reduced significantly.





bogey21 said:


> It may not be what you are looking for but buying new construction from the builder seems to have a level of certainty...
> 
> George



The only new construction going up anywhere close to where I work is starting at $450K as the base and goes up passed $700K, I'm trying to downsize and purchase a smaller home or condo and save more money for retirement vs paying a mortgage anymore...I just wish there were ranch new contrction going up in MI, everything is large and two story with the bedrooms on the 2nd floor...

I love the house your getting panina, and wish something all on one floor was available in MI


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## Sugarcubesea (Aug 20, 2020)

easyrider said:


> When a person has lost out on so many offers it is usually the realtor they are using is not so good or they are not using a realtor at all.
> 
> Bill



I'm using a relator that I have used in the past and he literally text me in the middle of the night when he see's something I will like and schedules a showing before I even see the listing pop....


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## Sugarcubesea (Aug 20, 2020)

klpca said:


> Our market is not your market so ymmv but here is what is happening here. A fixer went on the market and had 28 full price or higher CASH offers. It was priced super low to get everyone into a buying frenzy. It sold for about 20% above asking - to one of the cash offers. (We have friends trying to buy right now so we get all of the juicy details). Cash is king.
> 
> 1. Are you working with a well connected agent? They can tell you about places before they hit the market so you can get in ahead of other buyers.
> 2. Could you sell your house with a 30 day or 60 day rent back clause? I suspect that sellers aren't even considering contingent offers right now. They don't really have to when there are multiple non-contingent offers.
> ...



That's my problem, I'm losing out to cash offers, because I used my liquid cash to get my current house updated, I don't enough cash on hand to pay 100% cash for the new place, I'm putting like 80% down but need to finance the rest.. I don't want to pull cash out of my investments to purchase a home but maybe I have to...ugh, this is just so frustrating...

Thanks so much for all of your great ideas, I like listing my current home and selling  it with a 60 day rent back clause


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## Sugarcubesea (Aug 20, 2020)

DazedandConfused said:


> Sell your home, then rent and get ready to travel....the best time to sell is during a hot sellers market.
> 
> There really is no significant reason to OWN these days unless you don't like to travel and want to be tied down somewhere for a long time.



I can't really travel non-stop as I still work and will need to till at least 2026.


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## Sugarcubesea (Aug 20, 2020)

klpca said:


> Let's hope. The prices in this market are just unbelievable. If you are in it for the long haul you are probably all right. If you are trying to flip something I would be worried.


That is my big concern, if I pay 25K over what the comps are in the area and when I go to sell in 2026 to retire and move to FL, I worry, I will not have enough time to get that money back...


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## heathpack (Aug 20, 2020)

klpca said:


> In our market it is driven by a housing shortage, especially in the starter home category. Almost all of the new build inventory are either huge, expensive homes on postage stamp lots or high density condos and townhomes. No small single family homes anywhere. So if you are looking for a normal single family you have to look at existing inventory - and that is a fixed amount of inventory.



We bought our house during the last housing crash.  You'd think that would've meant we'd have our pick of houses.  Nope.  Interest rates were so low (seemed historic then, like numbers that would never be beat- 5% fixed 30yr mortgage lol), and inventory was tight for small single family homes which is what we wanted.

We got outbid repeatedly.  Maybe 5x with Realtor 1 and that was going nowhere.  Then we connected with Realtor 2, who got the job done.  We had a VA mortgage which was a problem because the VA inspectors were tougher than the non-VA inspectors and sellers didn't want to consider VA mortgages.

But Realtor 2 worked every blasted angle he could.  He drove around neighborhoods looking for renovation crews.  When he found one, he'd stop and chat them up and find out if the house was going on the market soon.  Finally he found THE house that we could get.  Contractor who bought a foreclosed house, did the renovation, was himself a veteran and wanted to give a break to a fellow veteran AND he was going to list the house on a weekday.  So we got wind of it early, looked at it the second it was available and made an over-asking-price offer immediately.

He accepted it and then drama ensued.  The house didn't appraise, then we discovered the appraisal was fraudulent (appraiser never went to the house!), then when caught in the fraud the appraiser suddenly appraised the house for a value that worked to get the deal.  The whole thing was crazy.  Of course the house has appreciated in value by 35% in 10 years, so it was a good purchase and our mortgage is way less than the rent we were paying prior to buying the house.


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## Luanne (Aug 20, 2020)

I don't remember your entire story, but is your objective in moving now, 6 years before a more permanent move, to downsize, reduce your mortgage and monthly payments?  Have you run the numbers to see if it might benefit you to sell your house (since home seem to be going for over asking price) and then rent until you are ready to make a permanent move?


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## klpca (Aug 20, 2020)

Luanne said:


> I don't remember your entire story, but is your objective in moving now, 6 years before a more permanent move, to downsize, reduce your mortgage and monthly payments?  Have you run the numbers to see if it might benefit you to sell your house (since home seem to be going for over asking price) and then rent until you are ready to make a permanent move?


Yes @Sugarcubesea, your window is pretty short. Renting may make the most sense.


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## Ken555 (Aug 20, 2020)

Sounds like a bad time to buy. In my area prices are higher than they have ever been.


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## Glynda (Aug 20, 2020)

Panina said:


> Taking a mortgage that needs to be factored in too.  The rates are so low instead of paying for a house in cash you can do better investing it.



That's true. However, I personally would rather have no debt if possible.


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## Sugarcubesea (Aug 20, 2020)

Luanne said:


> I don't remember your entire story, but is your objective in moving now, 6 years before a more permanent move, to downsize, reduce your mortgage and monthly payments?  Have you run the numbers to see if it might benefit you to sell your house (since home seem to be going for over asking price) and then rent until you are ready to make a permanent move?



My financial planner wanted me to put my house for sale in April, I have been working since last year in updating and fixing up our home we have owned for the past 20 years, our 3 kids were very hard on the family home and I wanted to wait till they were adults till I did any updating.  We started last year in July of 2019 and hired all the contractors and each one took forever to get their end of the project done which then backed up the next contractor, the last two items were the new flooring, kitchen and carpeting which was all supposed to be completed by April of 2020 and list the house in May of 2020. COVID happened and our state did not let the contractors start back at work till June 15th, so the last item I'm waiting on is the carpeting and that is getting installed this Monday. 

I worked for a company the bulk of my career and that company went bankrupt and so did my pension back  in 2008, they had no 401K plan because they had the pension. I moved on to a new company in 2013 that had a 401K and landed at my current company in 2015, so I have only had a short time of contributing the max to a 401K plan. My financial planner told us to put our large house for sale, downsize to a small condo / home and basically have no mortgage and in this way we could mega save from now till 2026 to have enough for retirement.

Maybe I should try another realtor from reading other posts. I'm just having a really bad day, I have been on vacation all week and have basically worked at least 4 hours every day this week. My current realtor, found a house yesterday, we put in an offer $15K over asking with out even seeing the house and just found out we lost out on this house as well, it needed a ton of work, so we figured offering this much over asking would allow us to win this one... not so much...


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## Luanne (Aug 20, 2020)

@Sugarcubesea  I hear you on wanting to wait until the kids are older before doing any remodeling or refurbishing.  We did do one major change while the daughters were growing up, combined their two bedrooms into one larger suite, and took the huge bonus room, split it in half, making one bedroom and an upstairs den.  Other than that the only other room we did anything to was the downstairs bathroom, new floor, tiled the shower.  When we were getting the house ready to sell we painted, re-carpeted, and did some other minor cosmetic things.  One of our daughters mentioned that we "should have" redone the kitchen (not for the selling, but years earlier).  I don't think she realized that pretty much all of our money was going into their educations.


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## WinniWoman (Aug 20, 2020)

Luanne said:


> I don't remember your entire story, but is your objective in moving now, 6 years before a more permanent move, to downsize, reduce your mortgage and monthly payments?  Have you run the numbers to see if it might benefit you to sell your house (since home seem to be going for over asking price) and then rent until you are ready to make a permanent move?



Exactly what I was suggesting also.


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## Sugarcubesea (Aug 20, 2020)

Luanne said:


> @Sugarcubesea  I hear you on wanting to wait until the kids are older before doing any remodeling or refurbishing.  We did do one major change while the daughters were growing up, combined their two bedrooms into one larger suite, and took the huge bonus room, split it in half, making one bedroom and an upstairs den.  Other than that the only other room we did anything to was the downstairs bathroom, new floor, tiled the shower.  When we were getting the house ready to sell we painted, re-carpeted, and did some other minor cosmetic things.  One of our daughters mentioned that we "should have" redone the kitchen (not for the selling, but years earlier).  I don't think she realized that pretty much all of our money was going into their educations.



Yes, we ploughed a ton of our money into our kids educations and that did not leave any for a remodel or updates on the house, I can so relate...


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## Luanne (Aug 20, 2020)

Sugarcubesea said:


> Yes, we ploughed a ton of our money into our kids educations and that did not leave any for a remodel or updates on the house, I can so relate...


I have mentioned this before, but by the time we left our house, where we had lived for 28 years, it didn't feel like "my" house any more. We had completely changed the color of the carpets, pretty much all of the window coverings came down and were changed out, repainted (that wasn't such a difference).  All of the artwork was off the walls, anything personal had been packed up.  It made it a lot easier to leave the house.  Also, the neighbors we had been the closest to had moved out before we did.


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## Sugarcubesea (Aug 20, 2020)

WinniWoman said:


> Exactly what I was suggesting also.



I've looked into rentals in our area and we need 2 or 3 bedrooms because I told 2 of the kids they could continue living at home while they save for a downpayment.   The rentals in my area are more than my current mortgage today.  we are finding $1800 a month for rentals...


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## Sugarcubesea (Aug 20, 2020)

Luanne said:


> I have mentioned this before, but by the time we left our house, where we had lived for 28 years, it didn't feel like "my" house any more. We had completely changed the color of the carpets, pretty much all of the window coverings came down and were changed out, repainted (that wasn't such a difference).  All of the artwork was off the walls, anything personal had been packed up.  It made it a lot easier to leave the house.  Also, the neighbors we had been the closest to had moved out before we did.


I have felt like our current home no longer feels like our home anymore just because we want to move to the next step and downsize which will get us one step closer to retirement


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## WinniWoman (Aug 20, 2020)

Sugarcubesea said:


> I've looked into rentals in our area and we need 2 or 3 bedrooms because I told 2 of the kids they could continue living at home while they save for a downpayment.   The rentals in my area are more than my current mortgage today.  we are finding $1800 a month for rentals...



We we’re paying $1800 per month for the rental we were in plus all the expenses that went with it but it was only for 5 months. That was $1000 per month more than our taxes at our former home. ( we had no mortgage).

Sounds like you are between a rock and a hard place.

Choices are sell the house, grab the money and rent and continue to find a small condo to buy. Or- Stay in your house and keep trying to find that small condo.

It will work out. Everything happens for a reason.


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## Panina (Aug 20, 2020)

Sugarcubesea said:


> I have felt like our current home no longer feels like our home anymore just because we want to move to the next step and downsize which will get us one step closer to retirement


Something will appear that you will get.  I also felt like I wouldn’t find anything but I did.  Life will take you where you need to go.

Talk to your advisor.  If you can get top dollar for your place, more then you thought, maybe renting will make sense for a year.  Being you will have cash you will be ready when the market adjusts down.


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## WinniWoman (Aug 20, 2020)

Sugarcubesea said:


> I have felt like our current home no longer feels like our home anymore just because we want to move to the next step and downsize which will get us one step closer to retirement



We felt a bit like that but then when we moved to our new home we still - even now-  feel like our other house was really home. We think it will take a long time to have that homey feeling here.


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## bogey21 (Aug 20, 2020)

Sugarcubesea said:


> I have now bid on over 20 homes, all over asking price and still can not get chosen as the winner. People are offering $25K over asking price on a home that will never appraise that high based on comps.



My pure wild ass guess is that some who are doing this are betting on serious inflation.  Others are betting against the dollar that is falling in the capital markets.  And still others are buying gold and silver which are reaching new highs.  Those buying houses as a hedge against inflation are financing their hedge using low mortgage rates...

George


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## Luanne (Aug 20, 2020)

WinniWoman said:


> We felt a bit like that but then when we moved to our new home we still - even now-  feel like our other house was really home. We think it will take a long time to have that homey feeling here.


The house we are in now, and we've been here almost 8 years, I LOVE.  I've never had that feeling about any other house I've owned.


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## slip (Aug 20, 2020)

This is the first time that we are renting instead of owning. I will be retiring in three to five years and I want to be able to just walk away and go to the condo we own when I am done working.

I don’t want to wait for something to sell To cash out. There are times when there is value in liquidity.


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## Fredflintstone (Aug 20, 2020)

slip said:


> This is the first time that we are renting instead of owning. I will be retiring in three to five years and I want to be able to just walk away and go to the condo we own when I am done working.
> 
> I don’t want to wait for something to sell To cash out. There are times when there is value in liquidity.



I Agree, @slip. When one is older and near retirement, no debt is the key. This includes no mortgage. After all, one needs liquidity to retire and no payments. You did smart buying your condo in Molokai. It’s a great location (really resort style), peaceful and just a paradise to kick back and chill. Hello pension, goodbye tension (if you have no mortgage) and liquidity.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## geekette (Aug 20, 2020)

Sugarcubesea said:


> Hi Everyone,
> 
> I have now bid on over 20 homes, all over asking price and still can not get chosen as the winner. People are offering $25K over asking price on a home that will never appraise that high based on comps.
> 
> ...


Check Zillow Make Me Move.  And FSBO.   Owners want Simple.  You can be the charming new owner that is easy to work with, not a pain in the butt.

Spend some time in neighborhoods you like and actually ask someone, would you sell your house for the right offer?

I would similarly take note of which realtors are in the areas you like.   Sometimes they get advance notice of a house coming online.  That's how I sold my first house - realtor put out buzz that this creampuff was on its way to MLS.  She had appts lined up before it hit the market.   Find Those realtors!   Whoever the top seller is gets listings.   

Find garage sales, ask, "are you planning to move?"   Home beside me sold in quick private sale.   Neighbor knew the couple was divorcing and went over to ask for the house and got it.  So, slightly morbid, but, find the divorcing couples and just ask.   

Don't rely on listings, everyone is looking at those.  Find the homes showing by appt only, some people will only go to open houses.  

Maybe some crackpot ideas, maybe something in here so crazy it just might work!


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## geekette (Aug 20, 2020)

Now, my selfish post - I realize that for you, this is annoying, agonizing, even, but, hot damn, maybe this shanty will generate a bidding war!!!   I just today found a new handy man that is interested in tools and furnishings I have, so, barter will help slap some lipstick on!  

I will hold out hope that my place will go for 25k more than my gut feel...   oh boy!


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## Panina (Aug 20, 2020)

Fredflintstone said:


> I Agree, @slip. When one is older and near retirement, no debt is the key. This includes no mortgage. After all, one needs liquidity to retire and no payments.
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk



I always believed no mortgage but it is not always the best.  This time I am taking a mortgage.  Mortgage money is cheap And no need to have tax ramifications Immediately to cash out investments.  I will take some each year to pay off the mortgage and keep tax liability down.  Enough Assets are needed to retire, liquidity and no mortgage payments are not necessarily needed to be comfortable.


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## DancingWaters (Aug 20, 2020)

We sold 3 duplexes in Feb and March.  Our realtor had 2 buyers for 2 of the properties and never even listed them.
The realtor went thru them, gave us a price and then asked for a key so immediately he could show it.  We got full price offers from those 2 duplexes.  We live in a city of 45,000, small and not much going on in our area.  Lol.  We were shocked he just KNEW who was looking for what kind of property.   We researched to find out which realtor had sold the most properties in the last year, and that’s how we selected him.   Good Luck


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## geekette (Aug 20, 2020)

DazedandConfused said:


> Sell your home, then rent and get ready to travel....the best time to sell is during a hot sellers market.
> 
> There really is no significant reason to OWN these days unless you don't like to travel and want to be tied down somewhere for a long time.


Building equity is a thing, and a much faster thing at low interest rates.  Used to be, most people had jobs and kids in school, so there was a tether.  I'm sure there are people that plan to stay a year and leave town, or state, but that has not been anyone I have ever known.  Most people I know like stability, putting down roots, making a place their own.

The idea of paid off housing is appealling, whereas, paying rent every month for usage and no eventual ownership is not so appealling to some people.


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## Panina (Aug 20, 2020)

DancingWaters said:


> We sold 3 duplexes in Feb and March.  Our realtor had 2 buyers for 2 of the properties and never even listed them.
> The realtor went thru them, gave us a price and then asked for a key so immediately he could show it.  We got full price offers from those 2 duplexes.  We live in a city of 45,000, small and not much going on in our area.  Lol.  We were shocked he just KNEW who was looking for what kind of property.   We researched to find out which realtor had sold the most properties in the last year, and that’s how we selected him.   Good Luck


@Sugarcubesea this concept can work for you.  Find a realtor in the office that sells the most condo in the area you are looking.


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## slip (Aug 20, 2020)

Panina said:


> I always believed no mortgage but it is not always the best.  This time I am taking a mortgage.  Mortgage money is cheap And no need to have tax ramifications Immediately to cash out investments.  I will take some each year to pay off the mortgage and keep tax liability down.  Enough Assets are needed to retire, liquidity and no mortgage payments are not necessarily needed to be comfortable.



I want the liquidity so I will be able to move quickly when I retire. It works in my situation. 
I agree with you also on the mortgage, not a big deal now with how cheap the money is.

Some things we were told when we were younger don’t always apply now, things change and everyone’s situation is different.


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## bogey21 (Aug 21, 2020)

Just to give you an historical perspective.  When I moved from St Louis to Dallas in September 1983 interest rates were through the roof.  The "discounted" rate we got to finance our new home in Dallas was 15.14%.  About 6 months ago the refi rate received by my Son when refinancing the mortgage on his house was 2.75%.  Both of these are real and exact numbers...

George


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## TUGBrian (Aug 21, 2020)

not sure where you are, but the same situation exists here in north florida.  real estate is utterly booming.  folks getting MULTIPLE full price offers within 24 to 48 hours...never seen anything like it before.

great time to sell!  notsomuch to buy it appears though!

no doubt it is related to the crazy low interest rates on 30yr mortgages being offered!  refinaning for a 15 or 20 in the 2.5% range is also appealing!


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## mdurette (Aug 21, 2020)

To the OP:   are you making your offers subject to the sale of your current home and a small mortgage?     If so, that is most likely your issue, your offer comes with baggage, especially the sale of your home contingency since it is not on even on the market for sale yet.     If you are looking to downsize, you are probably facing competing offers of cash and also also First Time Homebuyers that do not have to sell a home.

Will you have to pay above market for the next house, yes maybe right now.   But, the house you sell may also be bought over market value.       Creating "somewhat" of a wash for you.   I think putting your house on the market now and accepting an offer contingent upon you finding suitable housing in the next 30 days may help.    You get your house under agreement, you know how much you may get "over" market for yours, you have 30 days to find the next one.  If you don't then you start all over again.     

Will this find suitable housing scare a couple buyers.   Maybe.....but probably less than you renting back.


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## Tank (Aug 21, 2020)

Ohio is going crazy as well. Same day sells and over asking price


My cousin put her house up last weekend. Relater wanted $199,000 my cousin said let’s put $205,000
64 showings over the weekend and they excepted $245,000.  Just passed appraisal. 


With all that’s going on the bottom has to fall out with all the lost income. The Buck has to stop somewhere.

Dave


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## Sugarcubesea (Aug 21, 2020)

Panina said:


> I always believed no mortgage but it is not always the best.  This time I am taking a mortgage.  Mortgage money is cheap And no need to have tax ramifications Immediately to cash out investments.  I will take some each year to pay off the mortgage and keep tax liability down.  Enough Assets are needed to retire, liquidity and no mortgage payments are not necessarily needed to be comfortable.


That’s the big reason I’m taking a mortgage is the rates are so low, after crunching the numbers it makes the most sense.   I’m a huge proponent of being debt free.


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## Panina (Aug 21, 2020)

Sugarcubesea said:


> That’s the big reason I’m taking a mortgage is the rates are so low, after crunching the numbers it makes the most sense.   I’m a huge proponent of being debt free.


During my mortgage process from Bank of America, who I am not using, I was told because of time constraints, that I could pay cash and get the mortgage after closing.  This could be an option for you.


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## Sugarcubesea (Aug 21, 2020)

DancingWaters said:


> We sold 3 duplexes in Feb and March.  Our realtor had 2 buyers for 2 of the properties and never even listed them.
> The realtor went thru them, gave us a price and then asked for a key so immediately he could show it.  We got full price offers from those 2 duplexes.  We live in a city of 45,000, small and not much going on in our area.  Lol.  We were shocked he just KNEW who was looking for what kind of property.   We researched to find out which realtor had sold the most properties in the last year, and that’s how we selected him.   Good Luck


We also last year researched who lists the most houses / condos in the areas we were interested in.  We reached out to 3 top listing agents who were more interested in listing properties then showing buyers properties.
We selected one last year and he showed us 3 properties and since we did not make an offer on any those (they all looked great in the pictures but all had issues we were not willing to deal with )he passed us off to one of his agents that works under him, shewas just getting started in real estate.  She could not find her way out of a paper bag and we went back to our original realtor who was willing to show us homes / condos and not walk away after 3 viewings. 
I’m bummed because all of the top listing agents in my areas do not take on buyers


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## Sugarcubesea (Aug 21, 2020)

WinniWoman said:


> Wow. I cannot believe you are still at this. Must be so frustrating! If I recall correctly you are selling your house to reduce expenses so that when you finally retire you can move to Florida.
> 
> What about moving into a rental? I have no clue what that market is like where you live but maybe that could be an option.
> 
> I know an issue with new construction is that, too, is very expensive.



I would have never thought we would still be at it as well, we have been looking since late last year and it's really worn me down...


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## Panina (Aug 21, 2020)

Sugarcubesea said:


> We also last year researched who lists the most houses / condos in the areas we were interested in.  We reached out to 3 top listing agents who were more interested in listing properties then showing buyers properties.
> We selected one last year and he showed us 3 properties and since we did not make an offer on any those (they all looked great in the pictures but all had issues we were not willing to deal with )he passed us off to one of his agents that works under him, shewas just getting started in real estate.  She could not find her way out of a paper bag and we went back to our original realtor who was willing to show us homes / condos and not walk away after 3 viewings.
> I’m bummed because all of the top listing agents in my areas do not take on buyers


You don’ need the agents that list the most.  You want an agent that works at the same office of those that list the most. They will be be told about new ones.


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## WinniWoman (Aug 21, 2020)

Sugarcubesea said:


> I would have never thought we would still be at it as well, we have been looking since late last year and it's really worn me down...



Does your financial planner have an alternate solution for you? Sometimes things have to be adjusted to work with reality.


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## louisianab (Aug 21, 2020)

I know you said west metro Detroit, but have you considered moving up (North, NorthEast)? Chesterfield, Clinton Township, New Baltimore, Macomb? We have several sets of friends in that area who have nice neighborhoods and were able to buy at a decent price. I checked zillow and there are a fair few ranches and condos for sale in that area with water views. Might make your commute too crazy or not your favorite place, so ymmv.


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## DancingWaters (Aug 21, 2020)

Two of our duplexes never got to the office.  Once we showed the realtor the properties, he showed them within 30 minutes and full price offer came within an hour of showing them to the realtor.   This realtor was working so fast that the other realtors never knew about them until they were sold.  He saw them and immediately said he had a buyer, asked for the key and they were sold.   It’s amazing how hot the housing market is right now and the younger generation don’t even blink an eye at the cost.


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## Sugarcubesea (Aug 21, 2020)

louisianab said:


> I know you said west metro Detroit, but have you considered moving up (North, NorthEast)? Chesterfield, Clinton Township, New Baltimore, Macomb? We have several sets of friends in that area who have nice neighborhoods and were able to buy at a decent price. I checked zillow and there are a fair few ranches and condos for sale in that area with water views. Might make your commute too crazy or not your favorite place, so ymmv.



I work 10 hour days, sometimes more, since I'm part of the leadership team, as I have gotten older, I have decided that I want and need to spend time with my family each night. I have a 10 minute commute right now and want to keep the commute to 30 minutes or less....My middle son still lives with us and commutes to New Baltimore every day and works only 8 hours and I get home each day before he does with his long commute and traffic


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## Sugarcubesea (Aug 21, 2020)

WinniWoman said:


> Does your financial planner have an alternate solution for you? Sometimes things have to be adjusted to work with reality.



He suggested selling and finding a 6 month lease and waiting till next year to buy


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## TravelTime (Aug 21, 2020)

My realtor told me when we pulled out of purchasing a new home in February that this would happen. I am still glad we pulled out even though we lost a $56K deposit. We no longer would have needed that home since now we are not planning to return to Santa Clara County. We are planning to live up here in Placer County indefinitely. The owner was the winner because he was able to live off our deposit and sell the home to someone else.


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## TravelTime (Aug 21, 2020)

U.S. Existing-Home Sales Rose Nearly 25% in July
					

Sales of previously owned homes surged in July as low interest rates and a desire for more space amid the pandemic boosted home-buyer demand.




					www.wsj.com


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## Sugarcubesea (Aug 21, 2020)

TravelTime said:


> My realtor told me when we pulled out of purchasing a new home in February that this would happen. I am still glad we pulled out even though we lost a $56K deposit. We no longer would have needed that home since now we are not planning to return to Santa Clara County. We are planning to live up here in Placer County indefinitely. The owner was the winner because he was able to live off our deposit and sell the home to someone else.


I’m so sorry you lost that deposit money.


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## TravelTime (Aug 21, 2020)

Sugarcubesea said:


> I’m so sorry you lost that deposit money.



Thank you. It hurt at first but now I am over it. Much better than purchasing a home during a pandemic that we may not need any more. The thing that really bothered me at the time was the day before we signed off on contingencies, I told my husband and the realtor that I was too anxious to move forward with the purchase due to the pandemic. Against my gut, I signed anyway and changed my mind the next day. We lost our deposit by one day.


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## Fredflintstone (Aug 21, 2020)

TravelTime said:


> Thank you. It hurt at first but now I am over it. Much better than purchasing a home during a pandemic that we may not need any more. The thing that really bothered me at the time was the day before we signed off on contingencies, I told my husband and the realtor that I was too anxious to move forward with the purchase due to the pandemic. Against my gut, I signed anyway and changed my mind the next day. We lost our deposit by one day.



Sorry you lost your deposit.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## DaveNV (Aug 21, 2020)

@Sugarcubesea  I can completely understand your frustration with all of this.  The market is definitely pretty volatile right now.

My recent experience with selling my Washington home may provide thoughts on things.

As you have, as a homeowner, I put the money and labor into fixing up my house to make it all it could be, and to make it market-ready.  I've bought and sold enough houses in my life, and my Mom sold real estate for years, so I've learned what kind of things needed to be done to get the most bang for the buck when selling.  I didn't want a nickel-dime list of fixes a prospective buyer would want.  I wanted the house to speak for itself, and be as-is, where-is, and have that be something very nice, and worth owning.  By the time it hit the market, the house was absolutely ready.

When I finally listed my house for sale the first week of July, the market in my town was very, very tight.  We listed for $25K above what our agents felt was an historically good price, based on what things had been selling for.  But I saw it as something greater than that - there was a real shortage of good homes for sale in my bracket (3br, 2.5ba, 2 car garage, single family home, on a great lot, in a great neighborhood.)  City-wide, there were only a few homes like that for sale at that time.  Looking at sales prices, and condition of those properties, I felt we could get more, if we pushed the numbers a little. My suggested list price of $25K higher than the agent suggested was met with a raised eyebrow, but I said we'd find out quickly if we were too high.  We weren't.

We knew there would be a lot of interest, but we didn't understand how much interest there would be. Because of Covid-19, everything about buying and selling was different.  Sales prices were higher than they'd ever been in our area.  Good houses were selling very fast.  There was no such thing as an Open House.  It was a matter of making the most with a first impression through the listing info, and stepping back to let the people in.  That's exactly what happened.

As I've posted elsewhere, we had nine showings the very first day on the market.  Over that night we received five offers to buy - two at list price, and three at above list price. We had a time constraint, and needed to sell quickly, so didn't want to waste time trying to create a bidding war.  We felt we were already asking above the market comps, but those comps were sales during the height of the Covid-19 lockdown, so the sales numbers were all over the place.

We got with our agent and laid out the five offers side by side, and compared them.  One at list price was an FHA loan, and wanted us to pay their closing costs.  We set that one aside right away.  The other at list price would have been good enough in normal times, (minimum down payment, conventional loan, no contingencies to sell another house), but the other three offers quickly outweighed that one, too.

Of the three above-asking, all were the same initial amount, ($5K over our asking price) so they were essentially equal.  Two were pretty much the same, and followed the usual financial numbers.  The clear winner was the one where the buyer said they were willing to go as high as $25K over our asking, in $3K increments, to be competitive with any other offer. My agent explained that their initial offer was the $5K over asking, but if that wasn't high enough, they'd go $3K over that number, and then another $3K, and then another $3K, until they were the high bidder, up to the $25K over asking.  That was obviously a pretty strong offer.

What made it the clear winner was the buyers themselves.  Not only were they willing to pay more to get the house, they were putting 80% down, and they had no contingencies.  That was the offer we accepted.  The way the numbers settled out, they only paid $3K above their initial offer, which put them above the other offers.  Because of their strength financially, we felt trying to get the other two offers to come up to beat them would only end up with the other buyers pulling out.  So we asked for the first $3K bump, and accepted their offer, which ended at $8K over our asking price.  This proved to be a smart choice as the escrow flew through things, and there were no surprises.  We're comfortable we made the right choice.

Two of the offers contained letters to us, basically saying how hard the buyers had been trying to find a house to buy, and why we should sell to them. One of them said they'd been trying to buy for over six months, and how they had lost out on a number of homes.  Those letters were with the two lower offers.  While I understood the reasons for the letters, the buyers didn't have the financial strength of the other offers, so it wouldn't have made good sense to accept either of those offers.  The offer we accepted made the most sense from a business perspective.

I hope I'm not oversharing, but I'm offering this information to give you some food for thought about what a Seller in this market thinks about.  For us it wasn't so much about the final selling price as it was the strength of the Buyer, and their offer.  We accepted the offer from the Buyer we felt was the strongest, and who had the best chance of completing an escrow. It also happened to be the highest number.  The ending number was only $3K above two other offers, but it was enough.  If all the offers had been at list price, that Buyer is still the one we'd have chosen.

I wish I had an answer for you about how to successfully bid on a home.  Maybe it would be enough to do as our successful Buyer did, and writing the offer to automatically outbid other offers, up to a number you're willing to spend.  If you pick a maximum number you're willing to spend on that home, and write the offer accordingly, it may be enough.  Not sure, but it's something to consider.

A comment upthread was made about homes selling for more that they might appraise for.  In our case, the Buyer had agreed that if the sales price was above the appraised amount for the home, they'd pay the difference directly.  That way we were guaranteed to receive the asking/sales price, even if it was above appraised value.  That was a nice thing to have in our back pocket, even though we didn't need it, and another reason why we chose that Buyer.  The house appraised for the agreed sales amount, so it wasn't needed to go that route.

Wishing you good luck going forward. I hope you can find a home that suits you.  I think the suggestion to rent something for now, and buy later may be a good way to go.  As @slip says, there is an advantage to liquidity.

Dave


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## mpizza (Aug 21, 2020)

I an a Realtor and I am seeing exactly the strategy @DaveNV posted above winning bidding wars.  Speak with your agent about adding an escalation clause and waiving the appraisal.    

Most important is to get your home listed and sold while you can reap the benefits of a Seller’s market. 

Maria


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## WinniWoman (Aug 21, 2020)

Sugarcubesea said:


> He suggested selling and finding a 6 month lease and waiting till next year to buy



I think this is good advice.


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## WinniWoman (Aug 21, 2020)

TravelTime said:


> Thank you. It hurt at first but now I am over it. Much better than purchasing a home during a pandemic that we may not need any more. The thing that really bothered me at the time was the day before we signed off on contingencies, I told my husband and the realtor that I was too anxious to move forward with the purchase due to the pandemic. Against my gut, I signed anyway and changed my mind the next day. We lost our deposit by one day.



It’s always that little inner voice we need to pay attention to. I do this a lot as well- my head takes over my heart and it doesn’t always turn out well.


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## Sugarcubesea (Aug 21, 2020)

DaveNV said:


> @Sugarcubesea  I can completely understand your frustration with all of this.  The market is definitely pretty volatile right now.
> 
> My recent experience with selling my Washington home may provide thoughts on things.
> 
> ...


Dave,

I really appreciate your insight.  I’m hoping we can get the house listed after the carpeting gets completed next week.  I’m going to list it a bit higher since all the homes in my sub have sold for over asking price and sold within days of listing


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## DaveNV (Aug 21, 2020)

Sugarcubesea said:


> Dave,
> 
> I really appreciate your insight.  I’m hoping we can get the house listed after the carpeting gets completed next week.  I’m going to list it a bit higher since all the homes in my sub have sold for over asking price and sold within days of listing



I think that's a good idea.  If you list at higher than what you feel is right, you'll quickly know if it's too high.  If you list for too low, you may end up with a bidding war.  If you have time to wait, you'll quickly figure out where your price lands, in the market in your area.

In my specific neighborhood, (33 homes on a closed loop development), there were four homes that had sold within the previous few months.  Three of those sold for traditional pricing the neighborhood had "usually" sold for.  The owner of one of those homes later told me she wished she had listed for a higher price, but that they had gone with traditional comp prices.  The fourth home to sell went Under Contract a week or so before we listed, at a price that was $15K higher than any of those other homes had sold for.  My house was nicer, and we listed at $10K over their price.  And when it was done, we sold for $8K above our own asking.  So our sales price was $33K above what homes had traditionally been selling for in my neighborhood.  Prices are crazy these days, but it's all money on paper anyway.  With interest rates as low as they are, people are buying more home than they ever expected they could afford.

Be sure to look at the Reply #72 from @mpizza above, before you put in an offer to buy on your next home.  Apparently an escalation clause is a great way to go these days.  It certainly worked for us.

Good luck!
Dave


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## Ken555 (Aug 21, 2020)

Sugarcubesea said:


> Dave,
> 
> I really appreciate your insight.  I’m hoping we can get the house listed after the carpeting gets completed next week.  I’m going to list it a bit higher since all the homes in my sub have sold for over asking price and sold within days of listing



Crazy time! My suggestion: bump up the price even more than you normally would. I know realtors would say otherwise, but even they likely don't know how it will be perceived. I don't know...add a zero somewhere before the decimal point... good luck!


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## Country Roads (Aug 21, 2020)

mpizza said:


> I an a Realtor and I am seeing exactly the strategy @DaveNV posted above winning bidding wars.  Speak with your agent about adding an escalation clause and waiving the appraisal.
> 
> Most important is to get your home listed and sold while you can reap the benefits of a Seller’s market.
> 
> Maria



It's a very good time to be a Realtor.


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## TravelTime (Aug 21, 2020)

DaveNV said:


> @Sugarcubesea  I can completely understand your frustration with all of this.  The market is definitely pretty volatile right now.
> 
> My recent experience with selling my Washington home may provide thoughts on things.
> 
> ...



Hi Dave, This is a great idea. I have never heard of the escalating offer. That is very clever. It sounds like you made a great decision, closed quickly and have moved on to your new life with no regrets.


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## DaveNV (Aug 21, 2020)

TravelTime said:


> Hi Dave, This is a great idea. I have never heard of the escalating offer. That is very clever. It sounds like you made a great decision, closed quickly and have moved on to your new life with no regrets.



I agree - it really made their offer stand out.  Their financial strength did the rest. My agent said it was becoming a more common thing, and I can see why. With competition being what it is to buy the limited number of good homes for sale these days, it makes good sense.

Dave


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## geekette (Aug 21, 2020)

Thank you all for this thread.   My long time Realtor will be here Thursday.   I tend to be a very lucky person.   Pandemic has indeed changed the world right down to real estate market.  May the force be with me!!  

This is crazy exciting for so many people, more massive life change!


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## klpca (Aug 21, 2020)

mpizza said:


> I an a Realtor and I am seeing exactly the strategy @DaveNV posted above winning bidding wars.  Speak with your agent about adding an escalation clause and waiving the appraisal.
> 
> Most important is to get your home listed and sold while you can reap the benefits of a Seller’s market.
> 
> Maria


Can you waive the appraisal contingency if you are financing any part of the purchase? We waived the appraisal contingency when we bought the condo because it was a cash offer, but I've wondered if you can waive that if you are financing any part of the purchase. It seems unfair to the buyer in a market like we are in currently where prices are moving up quickly and most appraisals are out of date a month later. For example, a somewhat comparable unit in our building (actually a lesser location - no view, not a corner unit) sold for about 3% higher than ours just three months after we closed on our unit. 

I have never heard of the escalation clause. Interesting way to stay in the game during the offer stage.


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## sail27bill (Aug 21, 2020)

Sugarcubesea,

Good luck on the sale of your house and on finding a new one.  We sold our home 6 months ago right before Covid hit and inventory was really low then.  We had renovated the house from top to bottom in the almost eight years we lived there: All new kitchen, bathrooms, roof, windows, siding, etc.  The biggest impact we did right before listing was painting the house and refinishing the hardwood floors because my kids and dog lived happily in the house and it showed.  Everyone commented that they loved the color (light gray). We also bought new white comforters and European shams which made all our bedrooms seem like a retreat.  We also put nice soap, hand lotion and all new towels in the all the bathrooms for the spa feel.  Very inexpensive to do but gives a wow factor. Within 3 days, we had eight offers. All of the offers were over asking except one. We went with the strongest buyer (all cash and no contingencies).  

We are having a retirement home built for us in another state and were thinking about buying a coop or condo as we still need to work in NY.  Because we sold so quickly, we decided to rent instead.  Best decision ever as the maintenance on the coops/condos were more than the property taxes on the house I sold and we ended up loving where we rent.  I had a great realtor who was instrumental in making sure everything came together and ran smoothly.  Her advice was invaluable. Selling first meant I had no contingencies going forward. She also made sure to walk the house and let me know that I needed to rotate my dining room table to really highlight the space beautifully. She also bought apples to put in a clear glass bowl on my island.  The pop of color looked amazing in our pictures.  People today are looking for that HGTV feel so very small inexpensive plants, flowers or a new welcome mat really helps people feel at home.  I also bought a new inexpensive rug from Homegoods for our entry (about $100) that highlighted the wood floors.  Several people asked my realtor where I had bought it.  We did not use a Stager. We just de-cluttered and really cleaned. The people who bought our house are really nice and we are glad that it worked for them as well as us. 

Just hang in there....you will find the perfect place.  We have bought and sold 3 homes in tight markets and lost out on a number of homes ourselves.  I believe things work out as they should and for the best. Sending positive thoughts your way for a quick sale and for a new place for you to call home.


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## Sugarcubesea (Aug 21, 2020)

mpizza said:


> I an a Realtor and I am seeing exactly the strategy @DaveNV posted above winning bidding wars.  Speak with your agent about adding an escalation clause and waiving the appraisal.
> 
> Most important is to get your home listed and sold while you can reap the benefits of a Seller’s market.
> 
> Maria


Maria,

thanks, great suggestions and ideas


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## slip (Aug 21, 2020)

My situation in selling was different. We didn’t plan on moving for 5 years and then suddenly a job opened up and I transferred. I literally had 3 weeks to be in Hawaii. My wife stayed for another month but she wasn’t going to be able to do much of the work that needed to be done.

We really had no time to do any work to get the house ready to sell. We had to get rid of 15 years of stuff that wasn’t coming with us. An auctioneer took care of that and by then my wife was finishing up with work and came over.

Our realtor took care of replacing carpet for us and that was about all we did. No HGTV vibes with our house. It was totally empty. Some rooms needed updating and others were fine. I think it helped that the updated spaces where our kitchen and both bathrooms.

Our house basically took a month to sell and sold for 3% below ask. It was actually more that I thought we would get. Our realtor was really good on our listing price. She was even surprised we accepted the first counter from the buyer but we thought it was fair and wanted to close out that part of the process.

We accepted the offer on October 4th and closed just before Thanksgiving so it was before all the virus issues.

There’s a lot of different stories out there And yours will be different too but it will work out for you in the end.


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## am1 (Aug 21, 2020)

Is it wrong to think even hope (so younger people can purchase at reasonable prices) for another crash?  Wall Street does it every day.  Bulls make money, bears make money, _pigs get slaughtered.  The money eventually has to get paid back and come from somewhere. If you are selling good for you.  I would caution all these people buying.  _


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## geekette (Aug 21, 2020)

am1 said:


> Is it wrong to think even hope (so younger people can purchase at reasonable prices) for another crash?  Wall Street does it every day.  Bulls make money, bears make money, _pigs get slaughtered.  The money eventually has to get paid back and come from somewhere. If you are selling good for you.  I would caution all these people buying.  _


So, a generation of old people and retiring 401k holders should be financially devastated, so young people get a chance to pick their carcasses?

Yes, it is wrong to hope for that, imo.   I'd sooner sell my place quite cheap to a young person vs face financial ruin.   Please stop hoping that I hit the curb and can't get up.


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## am1 (Aug 21, 2020)

geekette said:


> So, a generation of old people and retiring 401k holders should be financially devastated, so young people get a chance to pick their carcasses?
> 
> Yes, it is wrong to hope for that, imo.   I'd sooner sell my place quite cheap to a young person vs face financial ruin.   Please stop hoping that I hit the curb and can't get up.



Not that at all.  Just at all these bidding wars at low interest rates.  Did people not learn anything from 2008/2009? It is not sustainable.


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## geekette (Aug 21, 2020)

am1 said:


> Not that at all.  Just at all these bidding wars at low interest rates.  Did people not learn anything from 2008/2009? It is not sustainable.


But this is not a financial crisis like that.  I doubt that anyone ruined in that crisis is buying a house now.   Plenty of people did not lose their jobs and have ample savings to buy at ridiculously low rates.   How is this not sustainable?   And why would a stock market crash "help" anyone??


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## am1 (Aug 21, 2020)

geekette said:


> But this is not a financial crisis like that.  I doubt that anyone ruined in that crisis is buying a house now.   Plenty of people did not lose their jobs and have ample savings to buy at ridiculously low rates.   How is this not sustainable?   And why would a stock market crash "help" anyone??


People on Wall Street want crashes.  That is what shorting is.  10's of thousands over asking is not sustainable.  As well how can young people ever afford to buy. I like the market to do what it wants on it own.  Trillions in aid is preventing that.


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## geekette (Aug 21, 2020)

am1 said:


> People on Wall Street want crashes.  That is what shorting is.  10's of thousands over asking is not sustainable.  As well how can young people ever afford to buy. I like the market to do what it wants on it own.  Trillions in aid is preventing that.


We disagree on several of these points.   Shorting is not at all wishing for a market crash.   Which short sellers are doing that because of trillions in aid?   I'm sorry, I'm not at all following your logic.  

I also don't have great concerns about young people buying.  people that want to own find a way.  Not everyone wants the anchor weight, either.  Perhaps their parents have money for a down payment for them as someone has money, if not 'the young', who rarely if ever in history had much money.  nobody is owed a home.    For every overpriced sale, I'm sure there are many fire-sale pre-foreclosure deals out there.  

You seem to be connecting many things that are not actually direct influences on each other.  The real estate market is working in accordance with supply and demand, which is pretty normal, although not to this extreme, because these are not normal times.   It's not sustainable because eventually everyone that wants to sell would have done so or demand ceases to create the seller's market.  What real estate bubble is going to burst and leave devastation?  And what would shorts have to do with that?


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## bogey21 (Aug 21, 2020)

am1 said:


> Not that at all.  Just at all these bidding wars at low interest rates.  Did people not learn anything from 2008/2009? It is not sustainable.



I no longer own a house nor am looking for one as I now live in a CCRC so count me as an interested observer.  I don't think this is comparable to  2008/2009.  IMO this market is driven by those fearing future inflation caused by the massive borrowing by the Federal Government.  Real Estate is a historical hedge against inflation.  It doesn't matter if these people are right or wrong.  What matters is what they are thinking today...

George


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## klpca (Aug 21, 2020)

While I want young people to be able to buy homes too, some of these sellers bought at high prices in 2006 and are just now getting out of that hole, so not everyone is making a killing on real estate.  We have lived in our home since 1987. When we bought it it was way out in the sticks. Now it is centrally located, lol. We bought dirt and an unfurnished house. It is gorgeous now but it's taken 33 years of blood sweat and tears. We could barely afford the payments because the interest rate was 12%  So we're staying put.


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## Luanne (Aug 21, 2020)

klpca said:


> While I want young people to be able to buy homes too, some of these sellers bought at high prices in 2006 and are just now getting out of that hole, so not everyone is making a killing on real estate.  We have lived in our home since 1987. When we bought it it was way out in the sticks. Now it is centrally located, lol. We bought dirt and an unfurnished house. It is gorgeous now but it's taken 33 years of blood sweat and tears. We could barely afford the payments because the interest rate was 12%  So we're staying put.


Just curious, and you may have mentioned this already.  Where in California do you live?  You can PM me if you don't want to answer publicly.  I ask because I grew up in CA and lived both in southern and northern CA.


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## klpca (Aug 21, 2020)

Luanne said:


> Just curious, and you may have mentioned this already.  Where in California do you live?  You can PM me if you don't want to answer publicly.  I ask because I grew up in CA and lived both in southern and northern CA.


We are in San Diego. I was actually born in SD but raised near Redlands. I came back for college and have no plans to leave


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## Luanne (Aug 21, 2020)

klpca said:


> We are in San Diego. I was actually born in SD but raised near Redlands. I came back for college and have no plans to leave


Okay, I think I did know that, but forgot.   I love San Diego. I've just noticed in out last few visits there how bad the traffic has gotten.  Of course it's gotten bad pretty much everywhere in California.


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## TravelTime (Aug 21, 2020)

am1 said:


> Not that at all.  Just at all these bidding wars at low interest rates.  Did people not learn anything from 2008/2009? It is not sustainable.



I understood exactly what you meant.


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## klpca (Aug 21, 2020)

Luanne said:


> Okay, I think I did know that, but forgot.   I love San Diego. I've just noticed in out last few visits there how bad the traffic has gotten.  Of course it's gotten bad pretty much everywhere in California.


I hear you. They are working on improving our public transportation but I will be 6 feet under by the time they finish. Traffic has been great during covid though


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## TravelTime (Aug 21, 2020)

geekette said:


> We disagree on several of these points.   Shorting is not at all wishing for a market crash.   Which short sellers are doing that because of trillions in aid?   I'm sorry, I'm not at all following your logic.
> 
> I also don't have great concerns about young people buying.  people that want to own find a way.  Not everyone wants the anchor weight, either.  Perhaps their parents have money for a down payment for them as someone has money, if not 'the young', who rarely if ever in history had much money.  nobody is owed a home.    For every overpriced sale, I'm sure there are many fire-sale pre-foreclosure deals out there.
> 
> You seem to be connecting many things that are not actually direct influences on each other.  The real estate market is working in accordance with supply and demand, which is pretty normal, although not to this extreme, because these are not normal times.   It's not sustainable because eventually everyone that wants to sell would have done so or demand ceases to create the seller's market.  What real estate bubble is going to burst and leave devastation?  And what would shorts have to do with that?



When interest rates go up, like they will some day, and the government stops flooding the market with trillions of dollars as emergency aid, there could be a housing crash (or maybe I should say correction). I say “could” because nothing is normal anymore. I remember when interest rates were 6% and that was considered low and everyone was jumping in. Now we would think 6% is a lot.


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## mpizza (Aug 21, 2020)

klpca said:


> Can you waive the appraisal contingency if you are financing any part of the purchase? We waived the appraisal contingency when we bought the condo because it was a cash offer, but I've wondered if you can waive that if you are financing any part of the purchase. It seems unfair to the buyer in a market like we are in currently where prices are moving up quickly and most appraisals are out of date a month later. For example, a somewhat comparable unit in our building (actually a lesser location - no view, not a corner unit) sold for about 3% higher than ours just three months after we closed on our unit.
> 
> I have never heard of the escalation clause. Interesting way to stay in the game during the offer stage.



If buyers are putting enough money down they can waive the appraisal value. The appraisal still gets done but the buyers add funds to make the LTV (loan to value ratio) work to meet their lender’s requirements. 

Maria


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## Brett (Aug 21, 2020)

TravelTime said:


> When interest rates go up, like they will some day, and the government stops flooding the market with trillions of dollars as emergency aid, there could be a housing crash (or maybe I should say correction). I say “could” because nothing is normal anymore. I remember when interest rates were 6% and that was considered low and everyone was jumping in. Now we would think 6% is a lot.



I remember when mortgage rates were 10%  and CD rates were 15% 
  but now we're living in good times


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## TravelTime (Aug 21, 2020)

Brett said:


> I remember when mortgage rates were 10%  and CD rates were 15%
> but now we're living in good times



I remember much higher too but do you remember when rates fell to 6% and it was heralded as a lifetime low? I remember the buying frenzies that went on with people trying to get a 6% mortgage.


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## klpca (Aug 21, 2020)

mpizza said:


> If buyers are putting enough money down they can waive the appraisal value. The appraisal still gets done but the buyers add funds to make the LTV (loan to value ratio) work to meet their lender’s requirements.
> 
> Maria


Thanks. Good to know!


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## bogey21 (Aug 21, 2020)

Back in the 80s when mortgage rates were in the 10% to 15% range VA loans were assumable at (I believe at their contract rates).  Houses with VA loans thus sold at large premiums.  That option was discontinued sometime in the mid to late 80s...

George


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## bogey21 (Aug 21, 2020)

TravelTime said:


> I remember when interest rates were 6% and that was considered low and everyone was jumping in. Now we would think 6% is a lot.



Back when I was employed at a S&L  in Missouri in the 70s the State had a cap (I think it was 8%) that could be charged on a mortgage loan.  Up front points ameliorated this somewhat  but I think there was also a limit on the number of points that could be charged.  When interest rates on deposits rocketed above 8% many S&Ls failed...

George


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## PamMo (Aug 21, 2020)

Sugarcubesea, my heart goes out to you. This kind of market is so hard to maneuver around. I wish there was an easy answer. With historically low interest rates, the pool of competitors for a home has increased exponentially. If there is money to be made, investors will flood into markets. You lost a bid on a wonderful little lake house, which probably made a great AirBnB property. We’re dealing with the same issues out west. Hang in there! The housing markets are a little frothy right now.


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## am1 (Aug 21, 2020)

The point is at sometime the buck has to stop and the market crashes.  Just as the same people that bought in 2006 are getting above water these new buyers could be in the same position 15-20 years later.  I am jealous my properties are not appreciating like this because of low interest rates and government aid.


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## DaveNV (Aug 22, 2020)

bogey21 said:


> Back in the 80s when mortgage rates were in the 10% to 15% range VA loans were assumable at (I believe at their contract rates).  Houses with VA loans thus sold at large premiums.  That option was discontinued sometime in the mid to late 80s...
> 
> George



VA loans are still assumable, but the buyer has to qualify as if it was a new loan. With interest rates at all-time lows, a buyer who qualifies for a new VA loan may end up with a better rate than assuming an existing loan.

Case in point:  The house I just bought in Nevada has a new 30-year fixed VA loan.  I got it at a 2.75% interest rate.   

Dave


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## WinniWoman (Aug 22, 2020)

klpca said:


> While I want young people to be able to buy homes too, some of these sellers bought at high prices in 2006 and are just now getting out of that hole, so not everyone is making a killing on real estate.  We have lived in our home since 1987. When we bought it it was way out in the sticks. Now it is centrally located, lol. We bought dirt and an unfurnished house. It is gorgeous now but it's taken 33 years of blood sweat and tears. We could barely afford the payments because the interest rate was 12%  So we're staying put.



Sounds just like our former home somewhat, though it was actually a new build back in 1987. 13.5 % interest rate. We eventually refinanced to a lower one and for 15 years and paid it off fairly early.

I have posted before how despite all the work we did to it for 32 years, it did not appreciate like most would have thought. Put it somewhere else in the country ( or even the state) and it would easily be at least $100,000 - $200,000+ more. Heck- just the land alone....

So we did think about staying put unless we could downsize to something newish that- after all the expenses to sell and buy and move and add improvements to the new place - we would at least break even. Thankfully we found it and where we wanted to be, but it was not easy.

Not to mention no way can you compare the two. Our former home was a lot bigger and nicer and had tons of land. I do miss it sometimes. The space. The privacy. Nothing is perfect.


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## WinniWoman (Aug 22, 2020)

I do wish my son could buy a small Inexpensive condo with low HOA fees but nothing around that I have noticed. His rent is crazy for the dingy apartment he has. Has not been painted or the rugs replaced in like 15 - 20 years when college kids lived in it prior to him.

He can’t afford a house because he could never afford to take care of it. Not that he would have the time working 7 days per week.


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## DavidnRobin (Aug 22, 2020)

Just saw this thread.
It would be great if folks listed a general location when discussing RE, as that is an key consideration as property purchase is linked so closely with location.

Back on thread topic... our story.
Hard to be brief - sorry.

Following our retirement 3 years ago, we decided to sell our home of 16 years that we bought on the SF Peninsula for quite a bit more than bought for. We moved to Silicon Valley so Robin could take care of her ailing mother. Even though our rent here is exorbitant (especially compared to owning our home) - it was best to bite the bullet and move closer. Now that Robin’s Mom has passed (sooner than expected) - our next phase in life is relatively wide open.

The sale of our home left us with quite a bit of tax-free money (due to $500K tax credit and remodeling cost-basis change) that for purposes of moderate term less-risk investment was put into double tax-free CA Muni funds until the time to jump back into the RE Market.

Since our sale is coming up on 2-year Anniversary- we have to decide whether or not to rebuy in this area so we can transfer our property tax-basis (high here in CA). This is allowed by Propositions 60 and 90.
The RE Market in San Mateo and Santa Clara counties is quite expensive, but relatively flat. Our SM County home is still about same that we sold it for.

Unfortunately, our 2 year time limit is ending, but homes are too costly here. We may make offer to the Owner of the home we are currently own. Problem is likely they want too much because they overpaid a few years ago, remodeled, and tried to flip at 1.8M (3Bd/2Ba, 1550 sqft on small lot - but location is great). When it didn’t sell - they put on rental market that is now seriously getting soft (WFH Tech people moving out), and we were lucky to find pre-Covid (vs living in an apartment like we quickly rented - we had a 5-day Escrow).

We haven’t seen anything worth buying here for around 1.8M - I know, unbelievably expensive unless you live here. Regardless, we are both from this area - and are not one of those that need to leave CA (or want to...).

If we stay here - we will need to take out a mortgage- not an issue, except that our income is low because living on post-tax money, and no income from working. So qualifying for a mortgage is tougher, but not a huge problem using less traditional methods as we have found a way to use our assets to qualify for a mortgage that would put us at 65%/35% mortgage:cash.

It turns out that our cost with buying here in SC/SM counties (accounting for PITI, property tax, tax benefit, and loss of investment income, etc.) is about break-even as our current rental cost (assuming no change in local RE Market).

So... unless the RE Market softens quickly in the next couple of months - we will continue to rent.

Or... move to Santa Rosa Area (NorCal Area) that doesn’t allow for PropTax basis transfer, but home prices are lower. The problem is that the SR Market is zooming as WFH people move to these areas (more home, larger lots for less) with multiple offers.

With Covid - it becomes harder as it difficult to drive for 2 hours to make an appointment just too tour a home (there are no Open Houses - except virtually).

We put an offer on a beautiful property recently that was listed at $988K (that was purchased a year prior for $960K and used as a vacation rental) - it had over 10 offers within 7 days of going on Market. We gave up countering at $1.1M (!) all cash offer and heard it sold for over $1.15M. Crazy!

We saw another beautiful home in SR - and didn’t even bother bidding as same thing was happening (multiple offers by people a few days after listing that didn’t even tour the home - except virtually). So... unlikely going to buy in this crazy RE Market and wait it out while renting.

The next year or so will certainly be interested. We are fortunate (because of planning) to be flexible with many options available to us.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## klpca (Aug 22, 2020)

DavidnRobin said:


> Just saw this thread.
> It would be great if folks listed a general location when discussing RE, as that is an key consideration as property purchase is linked so closely with location.
> 
> Back on thread topic... our story.
> ...


Wow. I can't believe that you are considering walking away from the property tax basis transfer (unless wherever you purchase would have a lower cost than your basis, I suppose). We're holding it in our back pocket until we absolutely have to downsize. Isn't there something that you could buy, somewhere, that would allow the basis to transfer or is it just that bad? Not criticizing btw, just surprised.


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## WinniWoman (Aug 22, 2020)

Our former home was in the Hudson Valley Region in NY. The new house- really a cottage- is in the Lakes Region in N.H.


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## bogey21 (Aug 22, 2020)

DaveNV said:


> Case in point:  The house I just bought in Nevada has a new 30-year fixed VA loan.  I got it at a 2.75% interest rate.



My Son's  Refi rate on  his VA Loan was also 2.75%...

George


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## DaveNV (Aug 22, 2020)

bogey21 said:


> My Son's  Refi rate on  his VA Loan was also 2.75%...
> 
> George



I could have gotten an even lower rate, if I had wanted to pay down the points.  But the return wasn't worth the cost, over time.  2.75% was the best break-even place on the financial scale.  As I recall, they'd wanted me to pay an additional $2K in Closing Costs to lower the interest rate a quarter point. The difference in the monthly payment was something like $13.  I said No thanks.  Paying an additional $2K to lower the payment $13 is not a smart financial decision. 

Dave


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## samlarson (Aug 24, 2020)

> Just saw this thread.
> It would be great if folks listed a general location when discussing RE, as that is an key consideration as property purchase is linked so closely with location.
> 
> Back on thread topic... our story.
> ...


Yeah, the virus got really in the way of everyone's plans. We even decided to postpone our plans on selling our property because we expect a real price drop and other stuff that could force us to lower the price.


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## Sugarcubesea (Aug 24, 2020)

DavidnRobin said:


> Just saw this thread.
> It would be great if folks listed a general location when discussing RE, as that is an key consideration as property purchase is linked so closely with location.
> 
> Back on thread topic... our story.
> ...




I thought I had listed my area, but as I'm aging I'm getting forgetful...Our current home is located in a metro detroit suburb, although, we are actually closer to Ann Arbor then Detroit.


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## DavidnRobin (Aug 24, 2020)

klpca said:


> Wow. I can't believe that you are considering walking away from the property tax basis transfer (unless wherever you purchase would have a lower cost than your basis, I suppose). We're holding it in our back pocket until we absolutely have to downsize. Isn't there something that you could buy, somewhere, that would allow the basis to transfer or is it just that bad? Not criticizing btw, just surprised.



Oops - thought I responded... lost draft.
Thanks for the input - always welcome. Why else would I bother? All about learning and sharing as we go along in life.

I haven’t walked away yet - I have a couple of months. It is effectively worth about $12K per year. And don’t forget SALT that limits $10K PropTax write off which is at my previous tax basis.

Interested in the calculation of what that $12K annual savings in PropTax represents in terms of impact in the purchase price of a house. E.g. Is that comparable to purchasing a $1.8M house (w/ PropTax break) to say $1.4M house (w/o)? Leading to an extra $400K purchase power.
(Sorry, these prices are in terms of local RE)

This assumes (variable and subjective) that the $12K/year represents a 3% post-tax annual return on $400K.

With the PropTax savings - the purchase of a $1.8M house (with a 67/33 mortgage at ~2.5%), and considering PITI and tax savings, our annual Spend is about equal between our current Rent (of a $1.8M home) and $1.8M home purchase.
This doesn’t consider appreciation or depreciation of the property.

Sorry if that is confusing. Overall, given current risk levels, we are leaning to renting for a while until things mellow out (hopefully) - unless presented with a place we would want to live for next 15 years. We like where we are now. One requirement of ours is living in a place with diversity (and good weather), and that really limits our available choices.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## bluehende (Aug 24, 2020)

DaveNV said:


> I could have gotten an even lower rate, if I had wanted to pay down the points.  But the return wasn't worth the cost, over time.  2.75% was the best break-even place on the financial scale.  As I recall, they'd wanted me to pay an additional $2K in Closing Costs to lower the interest rate a quarter point. The difference in the monthly payment was something like $13.  I said No thanks.  Paying an additional $2K to lower the payment $13 is not a smart financial decision.
> 
> Dave


My son refinanced in april.  We ran the numbers so many times and he actually sold up .  He took cash to pay a higher interest rate.  Like you I think it meant 20 bucks a month and we figured he needed to make around 3% to come out ahead even if he stayed for the 30 yrs.  We ignored tax considerations even though he will be itemizing and deducting at regular tax rates while paying capital gains rates on his gains.   He had penalties for the next few years if he paid if off but after that he was free and clear.  As long as you can handle the slight risk the market stagnates for a long time and you have the discipline not to spend it, borrowing all you can at these rates actually makes sense.


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## DaveNV (Aug 24, 2020)

bluehende said:


> As long as you can handle the slight risk the market stagnates for a long time and you have the discipline not to spend it, borrowing all you can at these rates actually makes sense.



For me, it boiled down to making the most of my monthly retirement income.  It's pretty well fixed, so I wanted to stretch things as far as it will reasonably go.  I didn't want to be house-poor, but needed to maximize my buying options.  The mortgage on this new house is very close to the amount of the outgoing mortgage on my old place.  But due to the lower interest rate and property taxes in this state, compared to (less than a 1 point) higher interest rate and much higher property taxes and insurance in my old state, I reduced my monthly PITI payment by almost 25%.  I was frankly shocked at how it penciled out.  Since it's a fixed rate mortgage, unless taxes or insurance go crazy, it'll continue to be an affordable option for me, going forward. I have no other debt. I consider this the last home I'll own, so I'm not that concerned with resale values, when that time comes.  I'm in a good position, I think.

Dave


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## mdurette (Aug 24, 2020)

bogey21 said:


> My Son's  Refi rate on  his VA Loan was also 2.75%...
> 
> George



I always find it amazing how rates can differ by region especially when most investors are national.    We are at 2.25% for 30 year fixed with 0 points for a VA loan right now in the Northeast.


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## VacationForever (Aug 24, 2020)

DaveNV said:


> VA loans are still assumable, but the buyer has to qualify as if it was a new loan. With interest rates at all-time lows, a buyer who qualifies for a new VA loan may end up with a better rate than assuming an existing loan.
> 
> Case in point:  The house I just bought in Nevada has a new 30-year fixed VA loan.  I got it at a 2.75% interest rate.
> 
> Dave


I have not been on TUG much recently because of my indoor hydroponic hobby.  I missed your post on your buying a home. The last I read you were renting.  Congratulations!  I assume it is in the neighborhood which you are renting?


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## DaveNV (Aug 24, 2020)

VacationForever said:


> I have not been on TUG much recently because of my indoor hydroponic hobby.  I missed your post on your buying a home. The last I read you were renting.  Congratulations!  I assume it is in the neighborhood which you are renting?



Hi there.  Yes, we bought a home here in Mesquite, about a half mile from this rental.  It's a house we'd been watching online since March, that has a floorplan they aren't building here any longer.  When we arrived at the rental in late June, that house was still for sale.  Long story short, we asked our real estate agent to show it and another couple of homes to us, and that place was "the one."  We closed escrow on it last week.  (Our Washington house closed escrow the week prior.)  So now we're getting the new place updated, and will be moving into it in about six weeks.  We're really excited! 

If you want to read through things, my old thread finally came to a natural conclusion. It's locked now, but has good info:









						The moving adventures of DaveNV (super long, with pictures)
					

Good Morning, Tuggers!  It seems forever since I've had any time to share my life-changing adventures with everyone, but it seems right to take a few minutes now and update things.  1.  First things first:  We are now located in Mesquite, Nevada.  The move from Washington can only be described...




					tugbbs.com
				




And then there is a new thread I started about updating the home we bought:









						DaveNV: Making a Home in the Desert
					

The intention of this thread is to document our ongoing experiences with adjusting to life in the desert southwest. I've found life really is a journey, and my journey keeps me on my toes!  For those who may not know who I am:  I'm Dave, a Tugger of around fifteen or so years.  I retired earlier...




					tugbbs.com
				




Dave


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## uaremymuse (Aug 24, 2020)

I’ll sell you my SFH in Arlington, Va with a pool. I won’t list it so you’ll only have me as competition. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## VacationForever (Aug 24, 2020)

DaveNV said:


> Hi there.  Yes, we bought a home here in Mesquite, about a half mile from this rental.  It's a house we'd been watching online since March, that has a floorplan they aren't building here any longer.  When we arrived at the rental in late June, that house was still for sale.  Long story short, we asked our real estate agent to show it and another couple of homes to us, and that place was "the one."  We closed escrow on it last week.  (Our Washington house closed escrow the week prior.)  So now we're getting the new place updated, and will be moving into it in about six weeks.  We're really excited!
> 
> If you want to read through things, my old thread finally came to a natural conclusion. It's locked now, but has good info:
> 
> ...


Thank you!  I will spend time to read through the threads.


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## TravelTime (Aug 26, 2020)

Median home price in Tahoe up by 43% over same time last year.









						Lake Tahoe, Vail Aren’t Just for Vacation Anymore as Homebound Families Move In
					

Residents of urban areas on the West Coast who can now work from home are fueling real estate booms in smaller resort towns in the region.




					www.wsj.com


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## Sugarcubesea (Sep 4, 2020)

Ok everyone wish me luck. We are going to see a home tomorrow and if the inside is as nice as the outside we are going to make a full price offer with escalation clause of $3K over asking up to $12K over asking price.  This one is so perfect for us, the right size, just 10 minutes away from our present home and easy access to the freeway.


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## Panina (Sep 4, 2020)

Sugarcubesea said:


> Ok everyone wish me luck. We are going to see a home tomorrow and if the inside is as nice as the outside we are going to make a full price offer with escalation clause of $3K over asking up to $12K over asking price.  This one is so perfect for us, the right size, just 10 minutes away from our present home and easy access to the freeway.


Good Luck


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## slip (Sep 4, 2020)

Sugarcubesea said:


> Ok everyone wish me luck. We are going to see a home tomorrow and if the inside is as nice as the outside we are going to make a full price offer with escalation clause of $3K over asking up to $12K over asking price.  This one is so perfect for us, the right size, just 10 minutes away from our present home and easy access to the freeway.



Sending you good luck!!!


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## klpca (Sep 4, 2020)

Sugarcubesea said:


> Ok everyone wish me luck. We are going to see a home tomorrow and if the inside is as nice as the outside we are going to make a full price offer with escalation clause of $3K over asking up to $12K over asking price.  This one is so perfect for us, the right size, just 10 minutes away from our present home and easy access to the freeway.


Fingers crossed!!


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## DaveNV (Sep 4, 2020)

Go for it!  Hope it works!!

Dave


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## PamMo (Sep 5, 2020)

Good luck!


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## rickandcindy23 (Sep 5, 2020)

I hope you get that house.  Sounds perfect.  

I thought you were considering Florida?  I guess that is still a future plan?  I would go to Florida right now, if not for our kids and grandkids, all within 90 minutes of our house.


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## bogey21 (Sep 5, 2020)

Sugarcubesea said:


> We are going to see a home tomorrow and if the inside is as nice as the outside we are going to make a full price offer with escalation clause of $3K over asking up to $12K over asking price.  This one is so perfect for us...



A smart aggressive move.  Good luck...

George


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## Sugarcubesea (Sep 5, 2020)

rickandcindy23 said:


> I hope you get that house.  Sounds perfect.
> 
> I thought you were considering Florida?  I guess that is still a future plan?  I would go to Florida right now, if not for our kids and grandkids, all within 90 minutes of our house.



We are still moving to FL, it's just that I need to downsize now to a smaller home for the last 6 to 10 years of working years (due to my pension being caught up in a bankrupt company and now only getting 10% of what I was supposed to get) We will move from a large 4 bedroom colonial, with den, living and dining room, family room and landscaping that is a pain to maintain, to a small ranch site condo. We are heading over at 2pm EST to see it... It will be another bidding war as my realtor got us the first slot of showings... the owners listed the house late last night, we drove past it and the first showings that they would allow are today starting at 2pm


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## dsmrp (Sep 5, 2020)

Good luck!!!


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## WinniWoman (Sep 5, 2020)

Best of luck!


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## jackio (Sep 5, 2020)

Good luck!


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## Dorothy (Sep 5, 2020)

Sugarcubesea said:


> We are still moving to FL, it's just that I need to downsize now to a smaller home for the last 6 to 10 years of working years (due to my pension being caught up in a bankrupt company and now only getting 10% of what I was supposed to get) We will move from a large 4 bedroom colonial, with den, living and dining room, family room and landscaping that is a pain to maintain, to a small ranch site condo. We are heading over at 2pm EST to see it... It will be another bidding war as my realtor got us the first slot of showings... the owners listed the house late last night, we drove past it and the first showings that they would allow are today starting at 2pm


Looks like you are in my backyard.  Check out some new construction in Novi.  There are several developments that are building smaller homes, both ranch and 2 story.  The two story will have the "master bedroom" on the first floor w/2 others upstairs.   They call it 'aging in place' units with lots of little touches for older folks.   Master bedroom can be a man cave for younger families, or a first floor master when you don't want to do stairs.  Robinston Lakeview homes will be within a stones throw of Walled Lake lake  and two parks.  Nice area.....     Some other developers are building the same near the hospital off Grand River.  Live in the country while easy access to everything city.


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## Sugarcubesea (Sep 5, 2020)

We just finished writing our offer with our realtor, we are offering over asking, we put in an escalation clause that we will go up by $2k over the highest offer up to $15K over asking. I’ve attached pictures of the view from this lovely 2 bedroom ranch.  All offers have to be into the listing agent by tomorrow at 8pm.  Ours is the 2nd offer


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## Sugarcubesea (Sep 5, 2020)

Dorothy said:


> Looks like you are in my backyard.  Check out some new construction in Novi.  There are several developments that are building smaller homes, both ranch and 2 story.  The two story will have the "master bedroom" on the first floor w/2 others upstairs.   They call it 'aging in place' units with lots of little touches for older folks.   Master bedroom can be a man cave for younger families, or a first floor master when you don't want to do stairs.  Robinston Lakeview homes will be within a stones throw of Walled Lake lake  and two parks.  Nice area.....     Some other developers are building the same near the hospital off Grand River.  Live in the country while easy access to everything city.


Thanks.  I’m currently in Novi / Oakland Country and I want to downsize to Pinckney / Livingston County for the lower tax base.


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## Panina (Sep 5, 2020)

Sugarcubesea said:


> We just finished writing our offer with our realtor, we are offering over asking, we put in an escalation clause that we will go up by $2k over the highest offer up to $15K over asking. I’ve attached pictures of the view from this lovely 2 bedroom ranch.  All offers have to be into the listing agent by tomorrow at 8pm.  Ours is the 2nd offer


Did you have your agent do a market analysis on what the house is worth and how much  it is likely to sell for as asking price is irrelevant.  This way you can have a better idea if $15k over asking is enough.


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## slip (Sep 5, 2020)

Looks awesome. Good luck!!


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## Brett (Sep 5, 2020)

Sugarcubesea said:


> We just finished writing our offer with our realtor, we are offering over asking, we put in an escalation clause that we will go up by $2k over the highest offer up to $15K over asking. I’ve attached pictures of the view from this lovely 2 bedroom ranch.  All offers have to be into the listing agent by tomorrow at 8pm.  Ours is the 2nd offer



nice, hope you get it
I want a Florida winter home


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## PamMo (Sep 5, 2020)

Sweet views, Sugarcubesea! I'm dedicating the TWO four leaf clovers I found today to you!


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## rapmarks (Sep 5, 2020)

I know you are trying to downsize to save money on living expenses. It sounds like it may reach the point that you will have to Spend as much for a small house as you are spending on your current home


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## rickandcindy23 (Sep 5, 2020)

Yes, it looks so nice.  I am hoping you get this one.  I love your views.  I thought we were going to see pictures of the inside, too.  

Is the price point much lower than your current house?


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## Sugarcubesea (Sep 5, 2020)

Panina said:


> Did you have your agent do a market analysis on what the house is worth and how much  it is likely to sell for as asking price is irrelevant.  This way you can have a better idea if $15k over asking is enough.


Our realtor was able to find out that the owners passed and the kids priced it at $5K below what a similar size site condo in this sub sold for last year.   This sub is one of those hidden gems where homes rarely come on the market.  
We looked at all the comps and feel like this is a very strong offer.  
However because our market in MI is still hot someone could come in and offer $30 or $40 K more then our offer.  
My friend lives in a sub similar to this one about 15 miles away from this house and a home on the water in her sub sold last week for $60K over asking.


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## Sugarcubesea (Sep 5, 2020)

rickandcindy23 said:


> Yes, it looks so nice.  I am hoping you get this one.  I love your views.  I thought we were going to see pictures of the inside, too.
> 
> Is the price point much lower than your current house?


Yes, it’s much lower then our current home.   We will be going from a 4 bedroom huge family home to this one which is a 2 bedroom and 55% smaller then my current home


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## Sugarcubesea (Sep 5, 2020)

rapmarks said:


> I know you are trying to downsize to save money on living expenses. It sounds like it may reach the point that you will have to Spend as much for a small house as you are spending on your current home


Yes, and that’s what I’m trying to avoid.  All of the new construction in my area is starting at prices way past what I’m willing to spend and does not meet my goal, thus the reason I’m looking for places that are in lower priced county’s from where I currently live.  

Hopefully we will get this one but if not it’s ok.   From all of the ones we have placed offers on this ones listing price was $25K less then the others we have bid on.


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## PamMo (Sep 5, 2020)

Every market is different, and I’m sure you know yours. Those of us in the peanut gallery just want to see you get what you want!


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## Sugarcubesea (Sep 6, 2020)

Dorothy said:


> Looks like you are in my backyard.  Check out some new construction in Novi.  There are several developments that are building smaller homes, both ranch and 2 story.  The two story will have the "master bedroom" on the first floor w/2 others upstairs.   They call it 'aging in place' units with lots of little touches for older folks.   Master bedroom can be a man cave for younger families, or a first floor master when you don't want to do stairs.  Robinston Lakeview homes will be within a stones throw of Walled Lake lake  and two parks.  Nice area.....     Some other developers are building the same near the hospital off Grand River.  Live in the country while easy access to everything city.



Dorothy,
As I'm on my laptop this am and can see that you are also from Novi, that is so cool to have a TUGER right in my backyard and I see we both own at Pinestead Reef. So pleased to meet you....


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## Sugarcubesea (Sep 6, 2020)

PamMo said:


> Every market is different, and I’m sure you know yours. Those of us in the peanut gallery just want to see you get what you want!



PamMo thanks so much, you hold a special place in my heart every since we met in Maui and you gave us your boogie boards when you were leaving


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## Theiggy (Sep 6, 2020)

Fingers crossed for you @Sugarcubesea ! 



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Sugarcubesea (Sep 7, 2020)

TUGBrian said:


> not sure where you are, but the same situation exists here in north florida.  real estate is utterly booming.  folks getting MULTIPLE full price offers within 24 to 48 hours...never seen anything like it before.
> 
> great time to sell!  notsomuch to buy it appears though!
> 
> no doubt it is related to the crazy low interest rates on 30yr mortgages being offered!  refinaning for a 15 or 20 in the 2.5% range is also appealing!



Brian, I'm in MI, in the Detroit Metro Area, which basically means a suburb of that area. In our state the housing market closed down in early March when the Governor shut our state down. Starting in June, we could start looking at houses and from that point on the market went nuts all the home in our area are selling at or over asking price.  Because we are looking for lakeview or lakefront and a small site condo or small home, an not many folks are putting their places up for sale the market is insane and you have to watch for new homes every second or you lose out...

I was a realtor about 20 years ago when my kids were younger and I wanted to supplement my income and I have never seen a market like this one in my lifetime.


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## PamMo (Sep 7, 2020)

And??????


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## rapmarks (Sep 7, 2020)

When we were looking for a home in Florida in 2003, the market was wild. The agent would set up to look at four homes and two would be sold before we got there.  We tried to buy from developer and all inventory would be gone and then we would see the same places two weeks later by owner for ten percent more.  after we closed on our house, there was an open house for same model for 25% more and there was a bidding war. 
this continued for awhile, but crashed.  A neighbor decided to take his profits and move. He put his house up for $449 turned down two cash offers for $440 and two years later took $220 for the house.

the market was low when I left Florida end of may with several nice homes, around 1800 square feet, with golf course and lake views, getting about $280 or less.


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## klpca (Sep 7, 2020)

Sugarcubesea said:


> Brian, I'm in MI, in the Detroit Metro Area, which basically means a suburb of that area. In our state the housing market closed down in early March when the Governor shut our state down. Starting in June, we could start looking at houses and from that point on the market went nuts all the home in our area are selling at or over asking price.  Because we are looking for lakeview or lakefront and a small site condo or small home, an not man folks are putting their places up for sale the market is insane and you have to watch for new homes every second or you lose out...
> 
> I was a realtor about 20 years ago when my kids were younger and I wanted to supplement my income and I have never seen a market like this one in my lifetime.


Maybe there will be more homes on the market after Labor Day and the short term rentals finish for the summer? 

Did you make your offer yet?


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## Sugarcubesea (Sep 7, 2020)

PamMo said:


> And??????



We just talked to our realtor and the listing agent is reviewing the 4 offers with his clients today and they hope to have an answer by 7:00pm tonight...I'm on pins and needles, I talked to my parents attorney (who was a close friend to my dad and his daughter is now our attorney) and I spoke to our financial planner who made himself available to us all weekend.  They both looked over our offer and looked at the comps and said we put a fantastic offer together.  They feel that by us going in over asking, having an escalation clause, stating that we would pay the difference if it does not appraise, and putting 80% down should make us very strong in the eyes of the seller.

Even my financial planner told me that he was glad I made an offer on this home, he wants me to take the mortgage vs pulling money out of my investments / CD's.

Now we just wait....


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## Sugarcubesea (Sep 7, 2020)

klpca said:


> Maybe there will be more homes on the market after Labor Day and the short term rentals finish for the summer?
> 
> Did you make your offer yet?



Hi KLPCA, yes, we made the offer Saturday night, the listing agent told our realtor that they had 10 showings on Saturday and 8 showings on Sunday. The house listed on Friday but the first showing was not allowed till Saturday after 2pm, we had the first slot at 2pm. The listing agent told everyone that all offers were due by Sunday night at 11:00pm.  So today is the day they will look at the offers.  She told my realtor that 4 offers came in, with ours being 1 of those 4. So we are competing against 3  other folks


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## PamMo (Sep 7, 2020)

Sugarcubesea said:


> We just talked to our realtor and the listing agent is reviewing the 4 offers with his clients today and they hope to have an answer by 7:00pm tonight...I'm on pins and needles...
> 
> Now we just wait....



Sugarcubesea, I've got to say, I REALLY admire your grit! That is just too much stress added on top of everything else these days! You have the heart of a lioness to keep at it! I hope those four leaf clovers seal the deal this time!  

We've been long distance shopping for a home in Sedona and Reno/Tahoe, and have seen prices go up by 30-50% this year. It's time for a reality check.


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## klpca (Sep 7, 2020)

Sugarcubesea said:


> Hi KLPCA, yes, we made the offer Saturday night, the realtor had 10 showings on Saturday and 8 showings on Sunday. The house listed on Friday but the first showing was not allowed till Saturday after 2pm, we had the first slot at 2pm. The listing agent told everyone that all offers were due by Sunday night at 11:00pm.  So today is the day they will look at the offers.  She told my realtor that 4 offers came in, with ours being 1 of those 4. So we are competing against 3  other folks


Good luck. At least it's only four offers! (Crazy that we are even thinking that way, lol). 

My daughter/SIL just moved to a new, touristy area with a lot of STR. They can't even find a place to rent (one apartment building has a 5 year waitlist, lol) so they are looking to buy instead. I will get to watch the same thing happening with them. Their realtor thinks that some more inventory may come online after the holiday weekend.


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## Luanne (Sep 7, 2020)

@Sugarcubesea I keep checking to see if you've heard anything yet.  Thanks for the updates.  Keeping fingers crossed for you.  I would think the escalation clause alone would make yours a very strong offer.


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## Sugarcubesea (Sep 7, 2020)

PamMo said:


> Sugarcubesea, I've got to say, I REALLY admire your grit! That is just too much stress added on top of everything else these days! You have the heart of a lioness to keep at it! I hope those four leaf clovers seal the deal this time!
> 
> We've been long distance shopping for a home in Sedona and Reno/Tahoe, and have seen prices go up by 30-50% this year. It's time for a reality check.



PamMo, thank you for saying this, I really needed to feel some good vibes and just needed a little extra support right now... I love the water, it is my calm and happy place.  

I want this so bad, but I'm trying not to get my hopes up since we have lost so many others... However the ones we lost, I'm still ok with losing them because I will not pay $25K to $35K over asking when I know that I will need to sell this in 6 to 8 years when I retire.  I know the value of lakefront in MI, my parents owned a cottage on Lake Charlevoix in the northern part of MI. My dad sold the cottage and with the proceeds allowed him and my mom to have a fabulous retirement.


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## Sandi Bo (Sep 7, 2020)

Best of luck to you @Sugarcubesea. Keeping an eye here for good news!


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## WinniWoman (Sep 7, 2020)

I keep checking also to see what happened with your offer. I so hope you get this one! I don't know how you can stand it!


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## heathpack (Sep 7, 2020)

We are all on tenterhooks.


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## TheTimeTraveler (Sep 7, 2020)

Sugarcubesea said:


> Hi KLPCA, yes, we made the offer Saturday night, the listing agent told our realtor that they had 10 showings on Saturday and 8 showings on Sunday. The house listed on Friday but the first showing was not allowed till Saturday after 2pm, we had the first slot at 2pm. The listing agent told everyone that all offers were due by Sunday night at 11:00pm.  So today is the day they will look at the offers.  She told my realtor that 4 offers came in, with ours being 1 of those 4. So we are competing against 3  other folks





I am hoping that you wrote a very personal note to be presented to the seller (when your offer is presented).  Sometimes a nice gesture may balance the scales in your favor when there are close multiple offers.

It's your turn to win this battle!

Best of luck!



.


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## Panina (Sep 7, 2020)

Good vibes your way.  I always believe life takes you where you need to go.  If this is the place it will be yours.


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## Sugarcubesea (Sep 8, 2020)

Sugarcubesea said:


> We just talked to our realtor and the listing agent is reviewing the 4 offers with his clients today and they hope to have an answer by 7:00pm tonight...I'm on pins and needles, I talked to my parents attorney (who was a close friend to my dad and his daughter is now our attorney) and I spoke to our financial planner who made himself available to us all weekend.  They both looked over our offer and looked at the comps and said we put a fantastic offer together.  They feel that by us going in over asking, having an escalation clause, stating that we would pay the difference if it does not appraise, and putting 80% down should make us very strong in the eyes of the seller.
> 
> Even my financial planner told me that he was glad I made an offer on this home, he wants me to take the mortgage vs pulling money out of my investments / CD's.
> 
> Now we just wait....




We still have no news, our realtor touched base with the listing agent last night at 9pm and listing agent stated that because the home is in a trust and they have to get consent from all the beneficiaries, they need another day.  I told our realtor that it's fine if they need a bit more time... Hopefully we will have an answer today...


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## DaveNV (Sep 8, 2020)

TheTimeTraveler said:


> I am hoping that you wrote a very personal note to be presented to the seller (when your offer is presented).  Sometimes a nice gesture may balance the scales in your favor when there are close multiple offers.



I'm not sure notes from buyers make much difference in a volatile market.  When I sold my Washington house in July, two of the five offers we received had nice notes from buyers submitted.  My Agent recommended I set them aside and compare the five offers side by side, focusing on which was the strongest offer to buy.  The notes were attached to the least strong offers, so in the end, it didn't make any difference.  The Agent said in this market, the strength of the offer should be the deciding factor.

Dave


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## DaveNV (Sep 8, 2020)

Sugarcubesea said:


> We still have no news, our realtor touched base with the listing agent last night at 9pm and listing agent stated that because the home is in a trust and they have to get consent from all the beneficiaries, they need another day.  I told our realtor that it's fine if they need a bit more time... Hopefully we will have an answer today...



I think the offer you put in is exactly as strong as the one we accepted on the house we sold in Washington.  The initial offer price was $5K over asking, with an escalation clause in $3K increments up to $20K over the offer.  Buyer put 80% down with no sale contingencies on another home, and agreed to pay the difference if the final price was over appraisal.  It was a rock solid offer, and was far and away the strongest one submitted. When compared to the four others we received, it was an easy decision to select that one.

Hope you get this home you want.  It looks like a great place.

Dave


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## mpizza (Sep 8, 2020)

TheTimeTraveler said:


> I am hoping that you wrote a very personal note to be presented to the seller (when your offer is presented). Sometimes a nice gesture may balance the scales in your favor when there are close multiple offers.
> 
> .



As a Realtor in NJ, I do not instruct Buyers to write a personal note and ask Sellers not to let it sway their decision if one is presented with an offer. 

Too many opportunities to discriminate and violate Fair Housing regulations.

Maria


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## klpca (Sep 8, 2020)

DaveNV said:


> I'm not sure notes from buyers make much difference in a volatile market.  When I sold my Washington house in July, two of the five offers we received had nice notes from buyers submitted.  My Agent recommended I set them aside and compare the five offers side by side, focusing on which was the strongest offer to buy.  The notes were attached to the least strong offers, so in the end, it didn't make any difference.  The Agent said in this market, the strength of the offer should be the deciding factor.
> 
> Dave


I don't disagree with you and when I first head that letters were "a thing" my eyes couldn't roll back in my head any further because I am a dollar and cents kind of person, but in our deal in March it was the deciding factor for our seller. He liked that my daughter was going in to teaching. So I guess that I put it into the "you never know" category. I know that the market has heated up since then so things may have changed. Our deal had three buyers and we all offered full asking - nowadays everything would have been over asking.


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## DaveNV (Sep 8, 2020)

klpca said:


> I don't disagree with you and when I first head that letters were "a thing" my eyes couldn't roll back in my head any further because I am a dollar and cents kind of person, but in our deal in March it was the deciding factor for our seller. He liked that my daughter was going in to teaching. So I guess that I put it into the "you never know" category. I know that the market has heated up since then so things may have changed. Our deal had three buyers and we all offered full asking - nowadays everything would have been over asking.



I understand and agree.  You sold in March, just before Covid changed everything.  In that normal market time, it might well make the difference when faced with a situation of "Gee, they're all the same - which Buyer do I want to have my house?" If all five offers we received had been for the same amount, with typical financing details, and if this was a normal market, then yes, the notes might have made a difference.  But in this case, the offers were very uneven.  The two with notes were attached to at-asking-price offers, one of which was a very weak buyer who likely would have had trouble closing escrow, who also wanted us to pay their closing costs.  So at the end of the deal, we'd have netted well below asking for the house.  Of the three above-asking offers, (which were all offering the same amount), the one with the escalation clause blew the others out of the water.  It was far and away the strongest offer of them all.  We gladly accepted that offer.  Hoping @Sugarcubesea has a similar experience.

Dave


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## Sandi Bo (Sep 8, 2020)

Another vote for letters.  2 short stories. 
1) Neighbor's daughter was looking to buy in our area. After several misses (offers not accepted), an elderly man (wife had passed) accepted the daughters offer. It was not even close to being the best offer. But she was committed to staying in the home, living by her parents, sending her kids to same schools she went to.  The letter for sure is what got her the house. 
2) My daughter just sold her starter home. It has tremendous sentimental value to her (nursery for stillborn baby, was very hard for her to leave). She had something like 8 offers (they accepted offers for 2 days), not all bids were competitive. She ended up comparing 3 that were darn close -- one was someone who's parents live down the street and he talked about raising his family there, another was a realtor that she suspected would rent, a third she suspected would flip it. And, yes, he had an escalation clause, she got significantly more than her offer, was preapproved, he was ready to move in (and she was already out (transitioning to new home and living at ours ) ). Definitely a sellers market, but she did a lot of things to make her house move in ready, pre-inspected, etc. I had never heard of escalation clauses before this, crazy!
Best of luck to @Sugarcubesea! We are all rooting for you!!!


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## klpca (Sep 8, 2020)

DaveNV said:


> I understand and agree.  You sold in March, just before Covid changed everything.  In that normal market time, it might well make the difference when faced with a situation of "Gee, they're all the same - which Buyer do I want to have my house?" If all five offers we received had been for the same amount, with typical financing details, and if this was a normal market, then yes, the notes might have made a difference.  But in this case, the offers were very uneven.  The two with notes were attached to at-asking-price offers, one of which was a very weak buyer who likely would have had trouble closing escrow, who also wanted us to pay their closing costs.  So at the end of the deal, we'd have netted well below asking for the house.  Of the three above-asking offers, (which were all offering the same amount), the one with the escalation clause blew the others out of the water.  It was far and away the strongest offer of them all.  We gladly accepted that offer.  Hoping @Sugarcubesea has a similar experience.
> 
> Dave


I had to lol at the "wanted you to pay their closing costs". Maybe in 2010, not now. Btw, we were the buyer in March. I can't believe how much *everything* has changed since then!


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## Sugarcubesea (Sep 8, 2020)

We lost out.  They allowed a cash buyer to come into the mix after they had requested all offers in by Sunday.  The cash buyer offered $38K over asking, the beneficiaries choose this offer this morning


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## Panina (Sep 8, 2020)

Sugarcubesea said:


> We lost out.  They allowed a cash buyer to come into the mix after they had requested all offers in by Sunday.  The cash buyer offered $38K over asking, the beneficiaries choose this offer this morning


So sorry, you just can’t compete with a cash offer.  I know how disappointing it must be.   You will find something when it is meant to be.  I still think sell you home and get maximum money for it and rent in between.  At some point the market will adjust.


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## WinniWoman (Sep 8, 2020)

Sugarcubesea said:


> We lost out.  They allowed a cash buyer to come into the mix after they had requested all offers in by Sunday.  The cash buyer offered $38K over asking, the beneficiaries choose this offer this morning



OMG. So sorry. This is crazy town.


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## clifffaith (Sep 8, 2020)

Sorry to hear it didn't work out, I was rooting for you.


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## Glynda (Sep 8, 2020)

Awwwww. So sorry.


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## heathpack (Sep 8, 2020)

Aw sorry to hear this.


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## nightnurse613 (Sep 8, 2020)

Yes, the market is crazy. My husband predicts the market will fall out early next year. People who have been staying in houses (courtesy the moratorium) will be out and owners will be looking to recoup or totally avoid that happening again. It is not unusual for houses in Idaho to go for $100K over asking price (and the sellers are not idiots). I would think that, with all the wildfires, people will be making an exodus out of California (again). It was hotter in the Sacramento area a couple of days ago than it was in Phoenix??!! (What? Really!) I hate moving and plan to die in this house (hopefully not too soon).


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## DaveNV (Sep 8, 2020)

That sucks.  But cash talks, obviously.  Hoping the next deal goes better.

Dave


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## VacationForever (Sep 8, 2020)

Sorry that you lost out yet again.  Cash buyer almost always wins even with the same price offer.


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## rapmarks (Sep 8, 2020)

Sugarcubesea said:


> We lost out.  They allowed a cash buyer to come into the mix after they had requested all offers in by Sunday.  The cash buyer offered $38K over asking, the beneficiaries choose this offer this morning


Don't even try to compete with stuff like this.  It is insanity


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## PamMo (Sep 8, 2020)

Well, that news just stinks, Sugarcubesea. It’s got to hurt. 

If I lived closer, I’d bring you a bottle of champagne and help you drown the disappointment over this one!


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## Sugarcubesea (Sep 8, 2020)

PamMo said:


> Well, that news just stinks, Sugarcubesea. It’s got to hurt.
> 
> If I lived closer, I’d bring you a bottle of champagne and help you drown the disappointment over this one!



PamMo, thanks, I could use a stiff drink right about now....


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## Luanne (Sep 8, 2020)

I am so sorry you lost out on the house.  How frustrating for you. But as others have said it's really hard to beat an all cash offer.


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## Sugarcubesea (Sep 8, 2020)

Panina said:


> So sorry, you just can’t compete with a cash offer.  I know how disappointing it must be.   You will find something when it is meant to be.  I still think sell you home and get maximum money for it and rent in between.  At some point the market will adjust.



We are just waiting on the carpeting, to be installed, it was suppose to happen last Monday and has now been pushed out to the 17th from Lowe's...Once that happens and a few touch ups of the house and then we will list it...


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## Sugarcubesea (Sep 8, 2020)

Luanne said:


> I am so sorry you lost out on the house.  How frustrating for you. But as others have said it's really hard to beat an all cash offer.



I just talked to our financial planner and he said even if I pulled cash out of my CD's he could not in good conscious recommend me to pay $38K over asking for a small 2 bedroom ranch site condo.  This just gives us a bit of extra time to get our home listed


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## Sugarcubesea (Sep 8, 2020)

TheTimeTraveler said:


> I am hoping that you wrote a very personal note to be presented to the seller (when your offer is presented).  Sometimes a nice gesture may balance the scales in your favor when there are close multiple offers.
> 
> It's your turn to win this battle!
> 
> ...




In this market, money talks, the sellers are not interested in a personal note.  We wrote a nice letter the first few times and the listing agents on those homes told our realtor that their sellers did not even read them they just wanted to know who had the best offer...


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## Sugarcubesea (Sep 8, 2020)

mpizza said:


> As a Realtor in NJ, I do not instruct Buyers to write a personal note and ask Sellers not to let it sway their decision if one is presented with an offer.
> 
> Too many opportunities to discriminate and violate Fair Housing regulations.
> 
> Maria




This was actually the advice my realtor gave me and I still insisted on writing notes for the first few offers we put in.  I think at this point we will put our house up for sale once we get the new carpeting in and sell for high dollars, rent and wait till the market cools off...


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## Sandi Bo (Sep 8, 2020)

So sorry you didn't get the house. I like the idea of selling your current one (pondering that myself). It'll all work out, just sucks right now.


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## rapmarks (Sep 8, 2020)

I have been cleaning out my Wisconsin house. Omg why did I save these things?  I have received nice notes from people that wanted my free hot tub, but they never showed up


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## bogey21 (Sep 8, 2020)

The consensus view seems to be that the RE Market is overly hot and will revert to normal.  That may be correct but I wonder if some who are converting cash into Real Estate, or are taking advantage of low interest rates, are concerned about the ballooning Federal Deficit and believe that Real Estate is a better store of value than cash much like those who swear by gold and silver...

George


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## dsmrp (Sep 8, 2020)

Sugarcubesea said:


> This was actually the advice my realtor gave me and I still insisted on writing notes for the first few offers we put in.  I think at this point we will put our house up for sale once we get the new carpeting in and sell for high dollars, rent and wait till the market cools off...


So sorry you didn't get the last place.
Yes best at this point to wait until the market cools off. A lot can happen in 6 mo - 1 year.
6 months ago we were all starting to hear about Covid in the US.


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## sail27bill (Sep 8, 2020)

So sorry Sugarcubesea. I was rooting for you to get this house. Now I am sending positive thoughts to you that your house sells quickly and for a good amount of money so your life plans can become a reality. Hang in there. The perfect place is out there just waiting for you to find it.

Best, 
Anita


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## rickandcindy23 (Sep 8, 2020)

So sorry you lost out on that house.  Something better is coming your way.  That house was not supposed to be yours.  I know, I know, that sounds so empty, but I am hoping it's true.


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## geekette (Sep 8, 2020)

Wow. So close.  I'm sorry, that sounds like a big fat drag.  Dragging on and on.  What strange times.  

Realtor comes here tomorrow, I'm ready to go, beat leaf season...   lucky that I am not trying to buy a home.


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## TravelTime (Sep 8, 2020)

So sorry you lost out on another house.

I think the personal appeals in notes are a waste of time. However, if someone wrote a note about why they are a strong buyers from a financial point of view, that could help make an objective argument to choose them, all other things being equal. For example, if they wrote about their jobs, how long they have been with their company, how financially stable they and that they are committed to going through with the deal regardless of what the appraisal says (and they waived the appraisal contingency), maybe that would be attractive. The most attractive offers, besides cash, waive all contingencies so they will lose their deposit if they change their mind.


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## TheTimeTraveler (Sep 9, 2020)

mpizza said:


> As a Realtor in NJ, I do not instruct Buyers to write a personal note and ask Sellers not to let it sway their decision if one is presented with an offer.
> 
> Too many opportunities to discriminate and violate Fair Housing regulations.
> 
> Maria






I totally disagree that it discriminates or violates any Fair Housing Regulations.  The personal note is just one piece of the offer, and it is to be presented to the seller as just one aspect (piece) of the actual offer.  What the seller decides to do with it is his/her up to the seller and NOT up to the Real Estate Agent.  It's the Agent's responsibility to present all written offers to the seller.

Bottom line;  The financial aspects of the offer will have the most impact of any offer.  The personal note may or may not sway a decision should there be equal or competing offers.



.


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## bogey21 (Sep 9, 2020)

TheTimeTraveler said:


> I totally disagree that it discriminates or violates any Fair Housing Regulations.  The personal note is just one piece of the offer, and it is to be presented to the seller as just one aspect (piece) of the actual offer.  What the seller decides to do with it is his/her up to the seller and NOT up to the Real Estate Agent.  It's the Agent's responsibility to present all written offers to the seller.



Agree.  I like to make my own decisions.  I will listen carefully to what the professionals (Doctors, Lawyers, Financial Advisors, RE Agents, etc.) say then make my own decision as to how I will proceed.  There are so many times in my life I have done this to my benefit.  The most startling was about 40 years ago when my then Cardiologist insisted I needed a pacemaker.  After doing my own research I politely declined.  Just say it is now 40 years later, I am now 85 years old and still trucking...

George


----------



## rapmarks (Sep 9, 2020)

bogey21 said:


> Agree.  I like to make my own decisions.  I will listen carefully to what the professionals (Doctors, Lawyers, Financial Advisors, RE Agents, etc.) say then make my own decision as to how I will proceed.  There are so many times in my life I have done this to my benefit.  The most startling was about 40 years ago when my then Cardiologist insisted I needed a pacemaker.  After doing my own research I politely declined.  Just say it is now 40 years later, I am now 85 years old and still trucking...
> 
> George


They wanted to give my mother a pacemaker at age 94 and we declined, mostly because she seemed to have lost her mind after anesthesia


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## Sugarcubesea (Sep 9, 2020)

sail27bill said:


> So sorry Sugarcubesea. I was rooting for you to get this house. Now I am sending positive thoughts to you that your house sells quickly and for a good amount of money so your life plans can become a reality. Hang in there. The perfect place is out there just waiting for you to find it.
> 
> Best,
> Anita



Anita,  thanks so much for kind note...


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## Sugarcubesea (Sep 9, 2020)

rickandcindy23 said:


> So sorry you lost out on that house.  Something better is coming your way.  That house was not supposed to be yours.  I know, I know, that sounds so empty, but I am hoping it's true.



Thanks so much... I'm still blown away that this offer came in from no where and was all cash and they waived all inspections... I would never waive a well and septic inspection as those are costly if not properly maintained.


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## b2bailey (Sep 9, 2020)

Sugarcubesea said:


> Thanks so much... I'm still blown away that this offer came in from no where and was all cash and they waived all inspections... I would never waive a well and septic inspection as those are costly if not properly maintained.


Many years ago I asked my sister to pray about a potential move. I always chuckle when I remember she prayed: "Please let the door swing wide open, or let it slam in her face." Sounds like this was a slam in your face kind of reply.


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## PamMo (Sep 9, 2020)

Well, if misery loves company, you have a LOT of company, Sugarcubesea. I just saw this about the Boise market (below).

I got a notice of a home that came on the market in Reno at 8AM this morning. I got a second notice that the owners decided to raise the list price by $30K a couple of hours later.

*Housing Market Sees Biggest Uptick in New Listings in Almost 2 Years as Pending Sales Surge 21%*​September 9, 2020 by Tim Ellis​​*Record-low inventory of homes for sale has “created a complete storm of insanity,” in small, affordable markets like Boise, which is seeing an influx of buyers leaving the West Coast.*​​*“Demand has been high, but we’re down to a record-low number of homes for sale, which has created a complete storm of insanity,”* said Boise Redfin agent Kristin Lopez. “The majority of my recent buyers have been people moving here from out of state: California, Washington and Oregon. *I’ve done 10 sight-unseen offers for these buyers in just the past couple of months.* They are purchasing primary residences and are moving here to stay.”​


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## DaveNV (Sep 9, 2020)

PamMo said:


> Well, if misery loves company, you have a LOT of company, Sugarcubesea. I just saw this about the Boise market (below).




The successful buyers of my Washington home were from California. They came prepared to buy, and made it work to their advantage.

Dave


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## geekette (Sep 9, 2020)

Sugarcubesea said:


> Thanks so much... I'm still blown away that this offer came in from no where and was all cash and they waived all inspections... I would never waive a well and septic inspection as those are costly if not properly maintained.


I don't know about that.  HVAC has run higher than any septic or well maint I have ever had to do.   Roof, too.

I agree on not waiving inspection, but, depends on the purpose for buying the house.  If it's to flip, they'll deal with whatever they find.  If it's to live in, doubt they'd waive inspection of critical services.


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## bluehende (Sep 9, 2020)

Septic can get real expensive.  When we had to replace the one at our beach place it got bad.  We were close to an inland bay so it took a special system.  Also with new regs we had to clear an area for a new field that meant taking 25 trees out.  By the time we were done the total was over 29k,


----------



## VacationForever (Sep 9, 2020)

I am joining the madness in home buying.  We have decided to move out of our 2850 sq ft penthouse condo in North Shore to a 3650 sq ft single family home in South Shore in our community.  We are making an offer on a house at full asking price tomorrow and then list our current home for sale.  Getting the funds to pay for the new home before selling ours makes it a little challenging.  Our money manager got their banking person to get us on something called Mortgage 100.  Essentially we do not need to put any down payment on the loan.  The loan is against our investment portfolio but treated as a traditional mortgage.  2 and 7/8 percent for 30 years and we will pay off as soon as we get our home sold.


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## klpca (Sep 10, 2020)

klpca said:


> Our market is not your market so ymmv but here is what is happening here. A fixer went on the market and had 28 full price or higher CASH offers. It was priced super low to get everyone into a buying frenzy. It sold for about 20% above asking - to one of the cash offers. (We have friends trying to buy right now so we get all of the juicy details). Cash is king.



The market is crazy all over right now - I think because of interest rates and I wonder about the effect of airbnb's taking inventory out of both the rental and buyers markets.

The house that I mentioned above finally closed and the actual sales price was $688k - all cash. The asking price was $600k. The house is like a 1970's museum - all original finishes. Completely nuts but there were so many offers!

@Sugarcubesea I think that your luck will change once your house is on the market - and in this market you should be able to sell quickly. Keep your chin up - good things are ahead for you.


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## Sugarcubesea (Sep 10, 2020)

b2bailey said:


> Many years ago I asked my sister to pray about a potential move. I always chuckle when I remember she prayed: "Please let the door swing wide open, or let it slam in her face." Sounds like this was a slam in your face kind of reply.



Yes, indeed this was a slam in your face kind of reply....


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## Sugarcubesea (Sep 10, 2020)

klpca said:


> The market is crazy all over right now - I think because of interest rates and I wonder about the effect of airbnb's taking inventory out of both the rental and buyers markets.
> 
> The house that I mentioned above finally closed and the actual sales price was $688k - all cash. The asking price was $600k. The house is like a 1970's museum - all original finishes. Completely nuts but there were so many offers!
> 
> @Sugarcubesea I think that your luck will change once your house is on the market - and in this market you should be able to sell quickly. Keep your chin up - good things are ahead for you.



Klpca, thanks, I'm feeling pretty low and defeated right now... I'm a very upbeat and positive person by nature.  When I started in the automotive industry some 30 years ago my managers and colleagues always called me sunshine.


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## Sugarcubesea (Sep 10, 2020)

geekette said:


> I don't know about that.  HVAC has run higher than any septic or well maint I have ever had to do.   Roof, too.
> 
> I agree on not waiving inspection, but, depends on the purpose for buying the house.  If it's to flip, they'll deal with whatever they find.  If it's to live in, doubt they'd waive inspection of critical services.



Since we were buying the house to live in, I will not waive having an inspection.


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## rickandcindy23 (Sep 10, 2020)

I have a different view of home inspectors than others do.  

First, in Colorado they are not required to have any professional certification of any kind and are not licensed.  Anyone can hang a shingle and say they are a house inspector.  They can say they have years in the building industry, but where is the proof?  They have none.  

Second, we hired one for our daughter's first house in Colorado Springs, when they bought it, and I was there as the Realtor to let the guy in.  Three years later, the buyers of her house hired an inspector.  He found different things about the house than their inspector did.  That was really odd.  And the one thing they were worried about was something the buyers' inspector didn't even consider.  That was a vent the old owners added between the laundry room and the garage to keep the garage cooler in summer.  That was apparently against code, but the second inspector made no mention of it.    

Third, as owners of a service business who deals with inspection reports a few hundred times a year, we have noticed that inspectors are really not all that smart, either.  We own a chimney cleaning business and started the business 37 years ago.  All five of our sweeps are certified.  Inspectors tell owners, "Your damper is broken."  99% of the time, the damper is not broken but opens in a way the inspector is not familiar.  That is just incompetent.  Inspectors also say, "Your fireplace is really dirty and needs cleaning."  The new buyers insist on a cleaning, and much of the time, the chimneys are not dirty.  

Fourth, they miss major issues.  If the weather is bad, they aren't going to go to the roof and check anything.  Snow is a deterent for us as well, but if you are paying for an inspection, you cannot have an inspector who cannot look at the roof and the top of the chimney, which could have a major issue.  A damaged mortar cap could cost $1,200 for a replacement mortar crown.  Why pay an inspector for half of a job?  People do it a lot.  

Rick started doing the inspections on our kids' houses himself.  He has a pretty good eye.  Our son has a friend in construction, who inspected his current house because he wanted to also know what it would cost to finish the basement anyway.


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## WinniWoman (Sep 10, 2020)

Sugarcubesea said:


> Thanks so much... I'm still blown away that this offer came in from no where and was all cash and they waived all inspections... I would never waive a well and septic inspection as those are costly if not properly maintained.




I don't know about your religion, but I did put a St. Joseph statue in the ground at our former home and at the rental house. He now sits in honor on the window sill in our kitchen


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## WinniWoman (Sep 10, 2020)

Sugarcubesea said:


> Klpca, thanks, I'm feeling pretty low and defeated right now... I'm a very upbeat and positive person by nature.  When I started in the automotive industry some 30 years ago my managers and colleagues always called me sunshine.




I think selling your house first and renting is your best bet at this point. The thing will be the cost and the condition of the rental and the availability in your market.

But when the buying market goes down a bit you at least can be a cash buyer and pounce on it. Then again, you have to hope there will be homes available by then that you want to buy.

I wish you could just stay in your home until you can move to Fla. Or just move to Fla. anyway right now after selling your home. 

Chin up There has to be a solution.


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## WinniWoman (Sep 10, 2020)

Sugarcubesea said:


> Since we were buying the house to live in, I will not waive having an inspection.




We had one done even though we already closed on the house. But it was winter. So we will be having him come back for an 11 month inspection- before the one year builder warranty expires.


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## WinniWoman (Sep 10, 2020)

VacationForever said:


> I am joining the madness in home buying.  We have decided to move out of our 2850 sq ft penthouse condo in North Shore to a 3650 sq ft single family home in South Shore in our community.  We are making an offer on a house at full asking price tomorrow and then list our current home for sale.  Getting the funds to pay for the new home before selling ours makes it a little challenging.  Our money manager got their banking person to get us on something called Mortgage 100.  Essentially we do not need to put any down payment on the loan.  The loan is against our investment portfolio but treated as a traditional mortgage.  2 and 7/8 percent for 30 years and we will pay off as soon as we get our home sold.



Wow! Upsizing instead of downsizing! Best of luck!


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## WinniWoman (Sep 10, 2020)

The thing that really is unbelievable to me is that people have this kind of cash money to begin with just for a house. I mean many people do not even have that kind of money to live on until they die! LOL!


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## VacationForever (Sep 10, 2020)

WinniWoman said:


> Wow! Upsizing instead of downsizing! Best of luck!


LOL.  I know, crazy right?  We went from 4600 sq ft home including a building a sunroom and an indoor pool to our now 2850 sq home.  I am getting a little bit of cold feet this morning after I read a housing prediction that housing prices will drop 7 to 8% in our area next year due to the high unemployment rate.  I don't want us to be stuck with 2 homes if we cannot sell ours.  Our carrying cost is very high partly because of high HOA fees on both the homes.  I spoke with my husband this morning that maybe we should sell our home first and then do a quick buy after our home goes into escrow.  Worst case we can rent for a few months but then we have humongous amount of furniture and stuff which will have to go into storage.


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## klpca (Sep 10, 2020)

VacationForever said:


> LOL.  I know, crazy right?  We went from 4600 sq ft home including a building a sunroom and an indoor pool to our now 2850 sq home.  I am getting a little bit of cold feet this morning after I read a housing prediction that housing prices will drop 7 to 8% in our area next year due to the high unemployment rate.  I don't want us to be stuck with 2 homes if we cannot sell ours.  Our carrying cost is very high partly because of high HOA fees on both the homes.  I spoke with my husband this morning that maybe we should sell our home first and then do a quick buy after our home goes into escrow.  Worst case we can rent for a few months but then we have humongous amount of furniture and stuff which will have to go into storage.


I would definitely sell first in this hot market. There's no way that I would ever want to carry two mortgages. If the market changes you might have to do something drastic like selling at a steep discount to get out from under the second mortgage. Price your place competitively and move it quickly then you can find another house (hopefully, lol).


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## Ken555 (Sep 10, 2020)

Why not have a rent back option for a few months for those who don’t have a home to move to when they sell? I suppose this might dampen enthusiasm for the buyers, but I would think it’s an option to consider.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## VacationForever (Sep 10, 2020)

klpca said:


> I would definitely sell first in this hot market. There's no way that I would ever want to carry two mortgages. If the market changes you might have to do something drastic like selling at a steep discount to get out from under the second mortgage. Price your place competitively and move it quickly then you can find another house (hopefully, lol).


We paid cash for our current home so it will only be for 1 mortgage for the new home.  Our neighbors in the same condo building have a hard time selling their homes and it makes us take a pause on what we have thought of doing.


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## VacationForever (Sep 10, 2020)

Ken555 said:


> Why not have a rent back option for a few months for those who don’t have a home to move to when they sell? I suppose this might dampen enthusiasm for the buyers, but I would think it’s an option to consider.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


Yep, that is an option but we also don't want it to hold up a potential sale.


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## joestein (Sep 10, 2020)

We are looking to sell our home and buy a bigger home in our neighborhood (Marlboro) or Colts Neck which is nextdoor.   As we have been working from home, we find our house is a bit tight.  My wife has taken over the dining room and I have our old office we shared to myself.   In addition, we would like an inground pool.

We have been to a few open houses and met a real estate agent we liked.    We spoke to her yesterday and she recommended we put our house up for sale now and then look for a property.  We said that we wouldn't put our house up for sale until we found a house to buy.  

We are both 50 with twin girls who are starting college next year.  Part of me says that it is foolish for us to upgrade and part of my says it is good investment for the future.


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## geekette (Sep 10, 2020)

bluehende said:


> Septic can get real expensive.  When we had to replace the one at our beach place it got bad.  We were close to an inland bay so it took a special system.  Also with new regs we had to clear an area for a new field that meant taking 25 trees out.  By the time we were done the total was over 29k,


Absolutely, experiences vary.  My total septic replacement was 14k, including removal of all old and arranged differently on the land including new holes for tanks closer to street (in case we are ever compelled to connect to city sewer not yet in our area).  

Never more than 500 for well pump replacement.  Complete well replacement is around 10k here.


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## geekette (Sep 10, 2020)

Sugarcubesea said:


> Since we were buying the house to live in, I will not waive having an inspection.


I am with you on that!!!!


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## geekette (Sep 10, 2020)

WinniWoman said:


> The thing that really is unbelievable to me is that people have this kind of cash money to begin with just for a house. I mean many people do not even have that kind of money to live on until they die! LOL!


Definitely, people roll differently than I do!  But, there are investors that turn profits into another house.  Plus, these are extraordinary times.  Could be pooling money with siblings or friends after they sell their homes.   Could be pulling from retirement to pay cash and have no mortgage...    There didn't used to be so many flip-this-house shows, either, and people have ideas and time now.  

All I need is the one cash buyer that sees the potential in my slice here.   I would be interested in their back story, but, so long as the check cashes, it's not my biz if they don't share.


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## WinniWoman (Sep 10, 2020)

VacationForever said:


> Yep, that is an option but we also don't want it to hold up a potential sale.




Yes. We thought of doing that on our move but no way would the buyers go for it. She was pregnant and due 2 weeks after we closed! LOL! 

The reality is most times people want to get into the house they bought as soon as possible.


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## geekette (Sep 10, 2020)

So far, my limited experience with cash buyers is that they don't sit around, they follow up leads and get on property ASAP and follow with offer ASAP.  The guy that was here today mainly took pics and asked questions.  I was surprised that he merely went down the stairs to basement and didn't poke around into different rooms.  Okie dokie.  Ought to help me, based on how much stuff remains crammed into a room down there....

I have one offer, sight unseen, that is too crazy low to consider.  I am guessing that the people that actually visit the property will have a different take.  But, I know it will be lower than what Zillow says.  I'm prepared for whatever numbers come in.  It would be nice to not have to deal with staging, etc.


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## Sugarcubesea (Sep 10, 2020)

WinniWoman said:


> I don't know about your religion, but I did put a St. Joseph statue in the ground at our former home and at the rental house. He now sits in honor on the window sill in our kitchen


I’m Catholic and I’ve always put a St Joseph stature in the ground.  We buried one when we went to sell my parents house and it sold 2 days after listing date and this was a few years back when the economy was bad.  
Thanks


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## Sugarcubesea (Sep 10, 2020)

WinniWoman said:


> The thing that really is unbelievable to me is that people have this kind of cash money to begin with just for a house. I mean many people do not even have that kind of money to live on until they die! LOL!


The last 3 offers that we made on houses we lost out to cash buyers and these folks were offering large amounts over the asking price. I’m blown away that so many folks just have such large amounts of cash just lying around.


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## bogey21 (Sep 10, 2020)

geekette said:


> I have one offer, sight unseen, that is too crazy low to consider.



There is an industry out there that prays on those whose primary need is to sell now.   When I sold my Son's house for him about 18 months ago I thought it was worth $175,000.  My Realtor insisted on $190,000 which it sold for in less than 60 days.  While I was in the process of selecting a Broker somehow the word was out that I was selling.   During this period  I had 3 totally unsolicited offers in the $135,000-$140,000 range.  Their pitch was "we will write you a check tomorrow"...

George


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## geekette (Sep 10, 2020)

bogey21 said:


> There is an industry out there that prays on those whose primary need is to sell now.   When I sold my Son's house for him about 18 months ago I thought it was worth $175,000.  My Realtor insisted on $190,000 which it sold for in less than 60 days.  While I was in the process of selecting a Broker somehow the word was out that I was selling.   During this period  I had 3 totally unsolicited offers in the $135,000-$140,000 range.  Their pitch was "we will write you a check tomorrow"...
> 
> George


Yes.   I am finding a mixed bag, one was very upfront about Fast being not High, making darned sure that I understood the grand compromise of dealing with them.   If I had to flee Today, like, close in 48 hours, theirs would have been an offer worth considering.  

Most all have asked why I am leaving.    they are indeed looking for the motivated sellers.  They don't  need to understand that I know my home is too weird for most normal buyers.    I am taking the tack of, well, I thought I was going to remodel but then got an opportunity out of town that is fine on telecommute for a while but would like me settled before end of year....      

it seems to all come down to strategy and not sure mine is best, but I figured I'd call 3 to 5 cash buyers each week as little improvements are made to my place and it starts emptying and grounds looking better and better....   It's not a bad thing to have a lot of eyes on it while not officially on the market.    eventually the right offer will show up, and I would like to be surprised at how high it is, but I can handle whatever the reality is.   

It's all a bit Vegas'y for me, honestly....    playing the cards I'm dealt to the best of my ability and I can't fold!


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## Snazzylass (Sep 11, 2020)

TheTimeTraveler said:


> I totally disagree that it discriminates or violates any Fair Housing Regulations.


Well, you are entitled to your opinion but that doesn't mean you know what you are talking about 

On the other hand, a licensed real estate agent would know and receives follow-up training on a regular basis.


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## Snazzylass (Sep 11, 2020)

bogey21 said:


> Agree.  I like to make my own decisions.  I will listen carefully to what the professionals (Doctors, Lawyers, Financial Advisors, RE Agents, etc.) say then make my own decision as to how I will proceed.  There are so many times in my life I have done this to my benefit.  The most startling was about 40 years ago when my then Cardiologist insisted I needed a pacemaker.  After doing my own research I politely declined.  Just say it is now 40 years later, I am now 85 years old and still trucking...
> 
> George


There's a difference between advise and following the law. While you can chose to NOT follow the advice given by a professional, also be prepared for said professional to no longer represent you if you chose to act unlawfully.


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## bogey21 (Sep 11, 2020)

Snazzylass said:


> There's a difference between advise and following the law. While you can chose to NOT follow the advice given by a professional, also be prepared for said professional to no longer represent you if you chose to act unlawfully.


I never said anything about acting unlawfully...

George


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## geekette (Sep 11, 2020)

bogey21 said:


> I never said anything about acting unlawfully...
> 
> George


That, and, no doctor ever represents me.   They do surgery and walk away, not having to live with consequences.   Professional advice is not always best suited to the interests of the customer and can in fact be all about the professional.  There have many unsuitable surgeries suggested for me and a lot of mumbling when I ask about potential bad outcomes.   

I think it would be wise to take advice of any kind with a grain of salt.  There are dangers both ways, in simply following 'professional advice', or, in ignoring 'professional advice'.


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## DaveNV (Sep 11, 2020)

geekette said:


> It would be nice to not have to deal with staging, etc.



We sold our Washington house without any staging. The rooms were obvious for what they were intended to be, so we felt staging was unnecessary.  The place was spotless, paint was fresh, hardwoods in excellent condition, carpeting was brand new.  The buyers didn't have to do a thing to move in and live there. There was a reason it sold so quickly.  Staging might have complicated things.

The one item we left behind that may have been "extra" were the cushions for the window seats in the upstairs media room over the garage.  Those were brand new, ordered specifically to fit into that seating area. It was a $350 investment that I think made the room really stand out.





Dave


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## TheTimeTraveler (Sep 11, 2020)

Snazzylass said:


> Well, you are entitled to your opinion but that doesn't mean you know what you are talking about
> 
> On the other hand, a licensed real estate agent would know and receives follow-up training on a regular basis.




Please post the Regulation that shows that submitting a letter to the buyer does "in fact" violate Fair Housing Regulations when submitting a written offer to the seller.    I think many of the TUG members would like to read it (as well as myself).



.


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## geekette (Sep 11, 2020)

DaveNV said:


> We sold our Washington house without any staging. The rooms were obvious for what they were intended to be, so we felt staging was unnecessary.  The place was spotless, paint was fresh, hardwoods in excellent condition, carpeting was brand new.  The buyers didn't have to do a thing to move in and live there. There was a reason it sold so quickly.  Staging might have complicated things.
> 
> The one item we left behind that may have been "extra" were the cushions for the window seats in the upstairs media room over the garage.  Those were brand new, ordered specifically to fit into that seating area. It was a $350 investment that I think made the room really stand out.
> 
> ...


Beautiful!  It would have been painfully obvious if you had removed those cushions!

My place is old and rustic, there isn't going to be fresh, new, spotless...  Empty is my plan.    Someone else's wallet will have to chase Beautiful.   too bad I won't be around to see The After Pictures.


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## DaveNV (Sep 11, 2020)

geekette said:


> Beautiful!  It would have been painfully obvious if you had removed those cushions!
> 
> My place is old and rustic, there isn't going to be fresh, new, spotless...  Empty is my plan.    Someone else's wallet will have to chase Beautiful.   too bad I won't be around to see The After Pictures.



I think there is room for both types of houses in the resale market.  Our buyers paid us (indirectly) for all our work.  Your buyer will pay for the opportunity to do their own thing there. I hope you sell for a great price, and move to your new adventure with a good head start. 

Dave


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## JanT (Sep 11, 2020)

That's a beautiful room, Dave!!  If the rest of your house looked like that, it's no wonder it sold so fast.

Regarding staging, it really depends on what someone defines as "staging." De-cluttering, deep cleaning, and removing family photos can work wonders. Most people cannot visualize themselves living in a home when other people's stuff is in it. If a home is full of clutter, family pictures, etc. it throws them off and they can't see past it. A dirty house? Nasty carpet? Oh my goodness, that is the worst and can literally tank a sale.

For us, we go a bit further. We've sold 3 homes in the last 14 years and each time, we stripped the houses down to where they basically looked like model homes. Nothing on the counter tops (which is a huge pain but the look is impeccable), minimal decor, packed away unnecessary clothes in the closets, etc. Every person that went through our homes talked about how much they looked like model homes. All of our realtors have talked about the importance of giving people the feeling they are walking into a well-cared for home.

We've been blessed for certain in that we were able to sell so quickly. The first one never even got on the market before it sold. The second one sold the first day it was on the market. The 3rd one is the home we just sold and it was on the market for 60 days. But, we listed it in the midst of Covid-19 and it was a luxury home and sales of those are/were a little slower around here. Now, we're basically "homeless" and building a plan for the future as we face off against the disruption of life caused by Covid-19, and a country that seems to have gone off it's damned rocker in every aspect.  



DaveNV said:


> We sold our Washington house without any staging. The rooms were obvious for what they were intended to be, so we felt staging was unnecessary.  The place was spotless, paint was fresh, hardwoods in excellent condition, carpeting was brand new.  The buyers didn't have to do a thing to move in and live there. There was a reason it sold so quickly.  Staging might have complicated things.
> 
> The one item we left behind that may have been "extra" were the cushions for the window seats in the upstairs media room over the garage.  Those were brand new, ordered specifically to fit into that seating area. It was a $350 investment that I think made the room really stand out.
> 
> ...


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## JanT (Sep 11, 2020)

Dave,

You are absolutely right.  There is room for both types.  Some people are able to see a home like Geekette's and all the wonderful possibilities it allows for them to be creative and make it there own.  I, too hope Geekette is able so sell quickly and for a great price!



DaveNV said:


> I think there is room for both types of houses in the resale market.  Our buyers paid us (indirectly) for all our work.  Your buyer will pay for the opportunity to do their own thing there. I hope you sell for a great price, and move to your new adventure with a good head start.
> 
> Dave


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## VacationForever (Sep 11, 2020)

Sugarcubesea said:


> The last 3 offers that we made on houses we lost out to cash buyers and these folks were offering large amounts over the asking price. I’m blown away that so many folks just have such large amounts of cash just lying around.


Our close friends in the community in which we live, have cashed out $500K worth of investment in the past few months because they believe that the stock market will crash badly due to high unemployment rate.  Then recently, they decided to move out of our community across town - about 45 min drive away to another country club community.  They are eyeing a $900K home.  Their current home will sell for about the same.  They are preparing to sell their home and buy this other home, and get some sort of bridge loan for about $400K.  There is alot of cash sitting out there.


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## elaine (Sep 11, 2020)

JanT said:


> we stripped the houses down to where they basically looked like model homes. Nothing on the counter tops (which is a huge pain but the look is impeccable), minimal decor, packed away unnecessary clothes in the closets, etc. Every person that went through our homes talked about how much they looked like model homes.


We also do this. I have photos from model homes in our area as my guide. Then, we get 50 Rubbermaid bins and put it all in a storage unit. We leave basic essentials, a "timeshare" amount of pots/pan, dishes, etc. in the cabinets and 2 suitcases worth of of clothing staged in closets. fresh paint and carpet and neutral furnishings/decor, nothing frumpy or "old" looking either for furniture or soft goods. When we sell, we'll have to get rid of our giant TV airmore--no one uses those anymore.


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## DaveNV (Sep 11, 2020)

JanT said:


> That's a beautiful room, Dave!!  If the rest of your house looked like that, it's no wonder it sold so fast.



Thanks!  Yes, the entire house looked like that. We spent a lot of time making sure the place was as near-new as it could be.  For a 17 year old house, we'd done a lot of upgrading, and we wanted the new owners to appreciate what went into it.  In the case of the image above, that was a family/media room over the garage.  When we bought the house it was an unfinished bonus room, with bare studs for walls, and a particle board flooring.  We built it out, finished it as an upstairs family room, and we enjoyed the heck out of it.  The cubby spaces between and next to the gable windows are lighted storage areas, so the owner has room for their stuff.  Christmas decorations need to be stored somewhere. 

Dave


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## geekette (Sep 11, 2020)

DaveNV said:


> I think there is room for both types of houses in the resale market.  Our buyers paid us (indirectly) for all our work.  Your buyer will pay for the opportunity to do their own thing there. I hope you sell for a great price, and move to your new adventure with a good head start.
> 
> Dave


Actually, Joe the Flipper that was just here does like the place, sees the potential.   In my area, the older less improved started-life-as-bungalow offers opportunities to surpass The Joneses.   We spent plenty of time out back, where you really get the reason for being here.   The privacy cannot be beat.   He will take it higher end, but likes that it is funky.   He said he enjoys the unique properties as he has done plenty of 3br shotgun ranches and likes a different playground.  The multiple levels present challenges, but obviously I wasn't going to point that out.  I did, however, show how easy it could be to make the basement walk-out...


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## JanT (Sep 11, 2020)

Holy cow!!!  That *is* a lot of cash sitting out there.  That would scare the heck out of me!!  Way too risky for me.



VacationForever said:


> Our close friends in the community in which we live, have cashed out $500K worth of investment in the past few months because they believe that the stock market will crash badly due to high unemployment rate.  Then recently, they decided to move out of our community across town - about 45 min drive away to another country club community.  They are eyeing a $900K home.  Their current home will sell for about the same.  They are preparing to sell their home and buy this other home, and get some sort of bridge loan for about $400K.  There is alot of cash sitting out there.


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## TheTimeTraveler (Sep 11, 2020)

JanT said:


> Holy cow!!!  That *is* a lot of cash sitting out there.  That would scare the heck out of me!!  Way too risky for me.




I agree, especially if the bottom drops out of the stock market!



.


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## WinniWoman (Sep 11, 2020)

DaveNV said:


> We sold our Washington house without any staging. The rooms were obvious for what they were intended to be, so we felt staging was unnecessary.  The place was spotless, paint was fresh, hardwoods in excellent condition, carpeting was brand new.  The buyers didn't have to do a thing to move in and live there. There was a reason it sold so quickly.  Staging might have complicated things.
> 
> The one item we left behind that may have been "extra" were the cushions for the window seats in the upstairs media room over the garage.  Those were brand new, ordered specifically to fit into that seating area. It was a $350 investment that I think made the room really stand out.
> 
> ...




Beautiful room! I agree! 

When realtors came to our former home they all said no need to do staging as it was perfect the way it was. Sometimes being OCD pays off.


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## Panina (Sep 11, 2020)

The risky thing is if you have a mortgage and you cannot get out because you own more then the market price is.  For those who pay cash, even if it becomes  worth less then you paid, it is not so bad if you could afford it.  If the market value goes down chances are wherever you are going the market went down too.  Yes there is a loss of cash but the first purchase meant you could afford it.


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## WinniWoman (Sep 11, 2020)

TheTimeTraveler said:


> Please post the Regulation that shows that submitting a letter to the buyer does "in fact" violate Fair Housing Regulations when submitting a written offer to the seller.    I think many of the TUG members would like to read it (as well as myself).
> 
> 
> 
> .




Our buyers wrote a very sweet letter to us, since they had a house to sell. We did not accept their first offer, though, because of this contingency. However they did come back with a better contingency of renting their house (which would end up being to us!) and we were so happy to sell it to them because they reminded us of ourselves when we were their age and buying the house and they also did not hassle us for anything. And they were to become our landlords for a few months while we lived in THEIR former home!


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## WinniWoman (Sep 11, 2020)

DaveNV said:


> I think there is room for both types of houses in the resale market.  Our buyers paid us (indirectly) for all our work.  Your buyer will pay for the opportunity to do their own thing there. I hope you sell for a great price, and move to your new adventure with a good head start.
> 
> Dave




Where we used to live buyers wanted all the work done but didn't want to pay for it. LOL! Even with all the gorgeous and private land we owned...


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## WinniWoman (Sep 11, 2020)

JanT said:


> That's a beautiful room, Dave!!  If the rest of your house looked like that, it's no wonder it sold so fast.
> 
> Regarding staging, it really depends on what someone defines as "staging." De-cluttering, deep cleaning, and removing family photos can work wonders. Most people cannot visualize themselves living in a home when other people's stuff is in it. If a home is full of clutter, family pictures, etc. it throws them off and they can't see past it. A dirty house? Nasty carpet? Oh my goodness, that is the worst and can literally tank a sale.
> 
> ...




You described the way we live normally. LOL!


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## Luanne (Sep 11, 2020)

geekette said:


> It would be nice to not have to deal with staging, etc.


When I look back, all of the houses I have bought were empty when we viewed them.  I preferred that.  I didn't get distracted by furniture, or accessories, that weren't to my taste.  I could picture what the house would look like with my stuff.  However, when I've sold houses they did have furniture.  Only one was "staged" and that was just replacing our living room furniture with some we rented.  The last house we sold got emptier by the day as I was selling off all of the furniture we didn't want to take with us.  Definitely no staging in that house.


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## VacationForever (Sep 11, 2020)

TheTimeTraveler said:


> I agree, especially if the bottom drops out of the stock market!
> 
> 
> 
> .


If bottom drops out it just means they are in a good shape, remember that they cashed out $500K.


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## VacationForever (Sep 11, 2020)

So a quick update on our situation.  After the whole ball of wax in getting pre-approved for the mortgage 100, I chickened out.  I told my husband I was stressed over potentially being stuck with 2 homes and I was not mentally ready to walk away from our amazing home with unbelievable views.  We killed the idea of moving and we will stay put.  My husband asked me to revisit my decision after the end of the year.


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## WinniWoman (Sep 11, 2020)

VacationForever said:


> So a quick update on our situation.  After the whole ball of wax in getting pre-approved for the mortgage 100, I chickened out.  I told my husband I was stressed over potentially being stuck with 2 homes and I was not mentally ready to walk away from our amazing home with unbelievable views.  We killed the idea of moving and we will stay put.  My husband asked me to revisit my decision after the end of the year.



I think you are being smart. Anyways go with your gut. You do have a fabulous place right now anyway!


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## VacationForever (Sep 11, 2020)

WinniWoman said:


> I think you are being smart. Anyways go with your gut. You do have a fabulous place right now anyway!


Thank you!


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## Brett (Sep 11, 2020)

VacationForever said:


> Our close friends in the community in which we live, have cashed out $500K worth of investment in the past few months because they believe that the stock market will crash badly due to high unemployment rate.  Then recently, they decided to move out of our community across town - about 45 min drive away to another country club community.  They are eyeing a $900K home.  Their current home will sell for about the same.  They are preparing to sell their home and buy this other home, and get some sort of bridge loan for about $400K.  There is alot of cash sitting out there.





VacationForever said:


> If bottom drops out it just means they are in a good shape, remember that they cashed out $500K.



right
but timing the stock market's highs and lows can be difficult ....


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## VacationForever (Sep 11, 2020)

Brett said:


> right
> but timing the stock market's highs and lows can be difficult ....


I agree.


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## geekette (Sep 11, 2020)

VacationForever said:


> So a quick update on our situation.  After the whole ball of wax in getting pre-approved for the mortgage 100, I chickened out.  I told my husband I was stressed over potentially being stuck with 2 homes and I was not mentally ready to walk away from our amazing home with unbelievable views.  We killed the idea of moving and we will stay put.  My husband asked me to revisit my decision after the end of the year.


Two Ideas:

Claim your Zillow listing and set up a Make Me Move.     

Look into cash buyers.  It will give you an idea of the right-now walk-away potential.  You don't have to accept any of their offers, but gives you an idea of the size of check you could get fast.  Markets change, tho.   

I am calling another 5 cash buyers to set up appts for next week.  I expect to accept an offer by end of next week  as the starting one is too low to consider, yet Zillow has price increasing by 6-7k per month.   Where that uptrend ends is anyone's guess...   

Out before leaf season is my big goal.  Not paying Oct expenses would be handy, too!!


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## VacationForever (Sep 11, 2020)

geekette said:


> Two Ideas:
> 
> Claim your Zillow listing and set up a Make Me Move.
> 
> ...


I have thought about setting up Make Me Move.  Our home is one of a kind and when it was first sold in 2008 it was priced at $1.8M.  Obviously after the real estate crash, condo prices suffered the most.  I think it would take someone who appreciates our amazing view to consider buying our home.


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## geekette (Sep 11, 2020)

VacationForever said:


> I have thought about setting up Make Me Move.  Our home is one of a kind and when it was first sold in 2008 it was priced at $1.8M.  Obviously after the real estate crash, condo prices suffered the most.  I think it would take someone who appreciates our amazing view to consider buying our home.


In my extremely limited experience, this being my only one-of-a-kind home to sell, the cash buyers either have the vision or they don't.  The guy today appreciated the uniqueness of it, yesterday's guy was a picture taker, another made an offer sight unseen.   My realtor doesn't seem to have the vision for the place, he just wants to move it and be done.  Perfectly okay, but causes us to disagree on pricing.

Homes either speak to someone or they don't.  My cabin in the woods in the cross section of country and city is unique enough to spark and inspire some people, yet, leave others cold (my sister was always loud and proud about how much she hates my place).   It presents a great opportunity for a city dweller to taste country without giving up convenience.  Its days of being a cozy 80s retreat are numbered, but I sure kept rustic charm going and hope whoever lives in its reincarnation truly enjoys the deer and hawk families.


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## bogey21 (Sep 12, 2020)

About 18 months ago when I was selling my Son's house  I messed around with Opendoor and Offerpad, two companies that offer you a clean way to sell your house without putting it on the market yourself.  Both operate about the same way but I went through the process more thoroughly with Opendoor.  The first thing they did was give me a conditional offer from which I had to subtract their relatively large fee.  But the kicker comes after they inspected the house.  Their inspectors are extremely thorough. After the inspection is complete they come back with a reduced offer based on the deficiencies uncovered by their inspectors.  The end result is that they wanted me  to pay for things that would do no more than increase the value my Son's house for their benefit when they ultimately put it on the market.  I didn't go forward with them as their adjusted offer was ridiculously low.  The benefit I derived from the process was the information I pried from their inspectors as they did their thing.   I corrected none of their perceived deficiencies and easily sold the house for more than I expected using a traditional Realtor...

George


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## geekette (Sep 12, 2020)

bogey21 said:


> About 18 months ago when I was selling my Son's house  I messed around with Opendoor and Offerpad, two companies that offer you a clean way to sell your house without putting it on the market yourself.  Both operate about the same way but I went through the process more thoroughly with Opendoor.  The first thing they did was give me a conditional offer from which I had to subtract their relatively large fee.  But the kicker comes after they inspected the house.  Their inspectors are extremely thorough. After the inspection is complete they come back with a reduced offer based on the deficiencies uncovered by their inspectors.  The end result is that they wanted me  to pay for things that would do no more than increase the value my Son's house for their benefit when they ultimately put it on the market.  I didn't go forward with them as their adjusted offer was ridiculously low.  The benefit I derived from the process was the information I pried from their inspectors as they did their thing.   I corrected none of their perceived deficiencies and easily sold the house for more than I expected using a traditional Realtor...
> 
> George


great anecdote!  Had not heard of either of them before.  Sounds like they are testing the theory that "there is a sucker born every minute."   Some people may indeed jump through their hoops.

My brother was a sucker.  His realtor ("lady of the lake" had most all listings in the neighborhood yet nothing was selling) had him sink a lot of money into "fixes" and "improvements".  Nobody bought his house so he walked away with less than nothing.   Mine is As Is, and it is helpful to leave behind what I don't want to move or dispose of and I refuse to further empty my bank account at this point.   Not all cash buyers operate the same way.   I don't expect "an inspector" but we'll see what is really in an offer....   will report back!


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## Sugarcubesea (Sep 13, 2020)

I'm so excited our carpeting is finally going in this Thursday after multiple delays from Lowes...One step closer to listing this house....


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## riv1964 (Sep 13, 2020)

Good for you, one step closer to your goals.I bet it will make a big difference, your house will sell overnight!


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## geekette (Sep 14, 2020)

Do let your neighbors know that you are planning to move.   A neighbor here just stopped by with a cash offer for my place.


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## WinniWoman (Sep 14, 2020)

geekette said:


> Do let your neighbors know that you are planning to move.   A neighbor here just stopped by with a cash offer for my place.



Wowee! And?!!!


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## geekette (Sep 14, 2020)

WinniWoman said:


> Wowee! And?!!!


Too low to consider, less than I paid 20 years ago.  Honestly, that was still standing outside, which is at this point quite overgrown.   She could easily have assumed that I trashed the interior ....   but, no, she very much liked the hardwoods that are in the original 4 rooms.    She didn't make another offer after seeing the inside, but did ask me to find out if my mortgage was assumable and to call her to let her know.   I would certainly let her son in to take a look, if he is actually interested.  He is a respiratory therapist and this location is very near many great hospital systems, and 3 minutes from the interstate so could be at several other hospitals within 20 minutes....    but could be that mama bear is wanting baby bear near and he has no intention of living down the street from his mother ....

She used to be in real estate, urges me to use a realtor, that it would be worth it.  I said no, I had my long time guy out here and he is looking for lowball fast and I'm not desperate.  Seriously, I should take a bath for the convenience of a realtor?  His idea was more than 50k less than Zillow is saying!!!!  why would I do that?  Then commission and closing costs...   puts me far behind the 8 ball vs very much above water on a sweet piece of land walking distance to an organic dairy and a brand new organic farm (with alpacas).   Especially when he wants me to hire a landscaper, power wash everything, replace that, do this...  no way.  I don't hafta nothing for a cash buyer, didn't even have to send the dog outside.   

This place is not for everyone, it would be a nuisance listing for a realtor, waiting for the person that it's right for (we bought this vacant home 7 months into its listing....)    Plus, all the stuff he'd want me to do (time, effort, money).   I totally get it, he doesn't want a listing that could languish for months, and while it's not his money and sweat going into it, why should he limit the requests that cause that for me??   There are hoops to jump through in traditional home sale and I don't happen to want to jump through them.   This is not a normal home, these are not normal times, and I have never been normal.  

I think the "cash buyer" thing is not well understood (I'm new to it, too, and digging it).  She didn't seem to understand that I have had several in here, that "for show" doesn't mean for me what a normal listing would mean.


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## joestein (Sep 14, 2020)

We looked at a house this weekend that had an open house.    Per my RE agent, they already had a full price offer at 629K.   It was in line with the value that Zillow had for the house.   However, they thought they could get more.    We got there about 15 mins after the open house started.    There were 4 parties ahead of us (only 2 parties in the house at a time due to COVID).  By the time we left there was an additional 6 or 7 parties waiting to go in.  Quite a few of them seemed to be flippers.

Even though I like a lot about the house, we were not interested.   They had both rabbits and dogs in the house with carpeting on the stairs and entire 2nd floor and it kinda skeezed us out.   In addition, there is a township sewer easement in the middle of yard (never saw that before).    I have no doubt that someone will make an above asking price offer.

Joe


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## geekette (Sep 14, 2020)

joestein said:


> We looked at a house this weekend that had an open house.    Per my RE agent, they already had a full price offer at 629K.   It was in line with the value that Zillow had for the house.   However, they thought they could get more.    We got there about 15 mins after the open house started.    There were 4 parties ahead of us (only 2 parties in the house at a time due to COVID).  By the time we left there was an additional 6 or 7 parties waiting to go in.  Quite a few of them seemed to be flippers.
> 
> Even though I like a lot about the house, we were not interested.   They had both rabbits and dogs in the house with carpeting on the stairs and entire 2nd floor and it kinda skeezed us out.   In addition, there is a township sewer easement in the middle of yard (never saw that before).    I have no doubt that someone will make an above asking price offer.
> 
> Joe


City sewer easement in the middle of the yard??  I have never seen that, either.  Yuck?   buried tanks?  

My well pit is in my driveway, in front of my garage.  It used to be a shared well, info in the deed about my house paying elec, that house paying maintenance.  

I think the list of unusual things possible are endless. 

My grandparents had a lake cottage with exterior doors and windows on the inside, so it's not that weird to me that I have the same thing here.  It can happen, or not, when a place is added onto.   Surely cheaper to leave a window or door than make it a wall. handy, too!

It remains unusual for other people, but when I point out the benefits of being able to close a room off with the sliding glass door, close the open parts of the bay window, close the French doors, it stops being weird and gets helpful.    It was a perfect situation when I had a husband that was a singer songwriter.  He could be in his glass "office" and I could catch his eye for when dinner was ready but not actually interrupt him, or have to wait for a song to end before knocking.   It was also nice to have "an office" with easy exit to car right outside for loading amps, etc.   Someone with a home business will like having 'a business entrance' and not allow them into the rest of the home.

My place is funky, people love it or hate it.   When we saw it, we loved it.   Maybe I can get Pete the Peacock to return to my deck, as seeing him all puffed out when we came thru, we found him charming.   I do like to point out the hawk's nest, as I show them deference and they treat me with up close views of them.  

I had another neighbor stop by about an hour ago.  Didn't know I was selling, just taking her sister from FL around, looking to see if any small homes were for sale...   I opened the door and said, sure, wanna come in?  Warned them that I was going cash buyer and not at all in traditional Show Ready state and place in massive disarray...   

Somehow, planets are finding alignment for me.   Not sure what is special about today, but, OK, why not expect a third drop by neighbor buyer??


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## bogey21 (Sep 14, 2020)

I was anti Realtor when I sold my Son's house for him but finally gave a persistent one a shot for 3 months.  Turns out the 6% commission I paid was well worth it.  A number of reasons.  First is that he talked me into listing it for more than I thought it was worth which eventually it sold for.  Second, by putting it on his firm's website and MLS he ginned up traffic.  And this is the funny one.  A Buyer's Agent got involved.  He actually was the one who kept the deal alive as he was desperate for his half of the 6% commission.  Because of the Realtors the house sold more quickly and if one is making Mortgage Payments, time is money.  All in all the 6% commission I paid was worth every penny...

George


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## geekette (Sep 14, 2020)

bogey21 said:


> I was anti Realtor when I sold my Son's house for him but finally gave a persistent one a shot for 3 months.  Turns out the 6% commission I paid was well worth it.  A number of reasons.  First is that he talked me into listing it for more than I thought it was worth which eventually it sold for.  Second, by putting it on his firm's website he ginned up traffic.  And this is the funny one.  A Buyer's Agent got involved.  He actually was the one who kept the deal alive as he was desperate for his half of the 6% commission.  Because of the Realtors the house sold more quickly and if one is making Mortgage Payments, time is money.  All in all the 6% commission I paid was worth every penny...
> 
> George


I might agree for a normal house in a normal neighborhood that any normal family could like.  this ain't that.  

Here, it would have to be a listing agent that actually understands this area and not into speed at my cost.   the arm twist put on me to lowball soured that deal for me, I won't be using my preferred agent.   If someone comes along and understands the address they are selling, my low property taxes vs if I were a mere 3 blocks north, and why people might enjoy rustic charm in historic district with lots of nature, sure, I'd list with someone that is looking to help me make money, vs, turn it fast and cheap.  

I am doing pretty well without any rep, this is 5 people through already, 2 low unacceptable offers, 2 expected by end of tomorrow, and maybe the second neighbor through today makes an offer...  or the son of the lady that made an offer here earlier...

I don't need someone else to generate bidding war, I've got that ball rolling all by myself...   and I don't need to give anyone a cut of that nor have closing costs diminish it.  Plus, I will give first and second shot to next door neighbor, and my doctor that has grandparents 3 streets over.   Two aces in my pocket after whatever happens with other offers!

No traditional showings, no pressure to spend on things that I don't need to spend on, no staging (I am moving stuff around as I clean and empty it to get ready to load to container, this is not anything like someone would have their home arranged, not even a weirdo like me!!!), no extra vacuuming, no having to leave with dog (I have Mom's giant dog while she is in rehab after a stroke).   An agent bringing buyers at price above Zillow would be great, but I don't expect to wait long enough for that to even be an option.  

I also would not be holding my breath for buyers seeing MLS for a 2br home built in 1941 on septic and well to beat down the door.    It's not going to happen.   If the agent doesn't see the potential, they are road to big loss for me.    Most people won't be ok with some of the 80s stuff and mentally list their costs to change the place and think that should lower the price.  My view is, their changes aren't my problem.   I already gave them new roof, gutters, septic system, water softener, dual sump pump +backup, water proofed basement.  I'm not giving more for things I won't be here to enjoy.    I won't be strong-armed by anybody.   There is a fair price, and it's headed my way before the end of September.


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## jackio (Sep 14, 2020)

3 years ago we decided to sell our house and move to a 55+ community.  The house was over 30 years old and needed serious updating and a new furnace, driveway and siding also.  We decided not to do any work on it, to let someone younger and more energetic than we were,  make it "their own".  We saw what the houses in the neighborhood were getting and were going to list it with a local realtor.  My son-in-law overheard a woman at work saying they were going to look for  a house.  He gave them our phone number.  She called and I told her we were nowhere ready to show the house.  She wanted to come anyway, and  we let them in the next day. We told her what we were planning on listing with the agent, cut it by 6% (realtor commission fee)  and told them the price we wanted.  They bought it, as is.  Their engineer's report said that the furnace would only last another year at most.  Their attorney asked for a $5K concession because of this.  We declined, saying that the price was for "as is" condition.  They relented, bought the house, and report they are very happy there.
The market has taken off since then, and with the improvements they have made, could probably sell it for $100K more than what they paid.


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## geekette (Sep 14, 2020)

jackio said:


> 3 years ago we decided to sell our house and move to a 55+ community.  The house was over 30 years old and needed serious updating and a new furnace, driveway and siding also.  We decided not to do any work on it, to let someone younger and more energetic than we were,  make it "their own".  We saw what the houses in the neighborhood were getting and were going to list it with a local realtor.  My son-in-law overheard a woman at work saying they were going to look for  a house.  He gave them our phone number.  She called and I told her we were nowhere ready to show the house.  She wanted to come anyway, and  we let them in the next day. We told her what we were planning on listing with the agent, cut it by 6% (realtor commission fee)  and told them the price we wanted.  They bought it, as is.  Their engineer's report said that the furnace would only last another year at most.  Their attorney asked for a $5K concession because of this.  We declined, saying that the price was for "as is" condition.  They relented, bought the house, and report they are very happy there.
> The market has taken off since then, and with the improvements they have made, could probably sell it for $100K more than what they paid.



Great story!!   You just never know ...

I would be very interested in how long the furnace actually lasted!  I don't think the engineer could know something like that.   I would think, he would replace it in a year if it were in His House.  Not at all the same as claiming imminent failure.   I tend to call BS on stuff that seems fishy.  I'm glad you didn't cave.

I have been thinking I'm on borrowed time with the water heater for a long time (could be older than me, seemed old when I got here 20 years ago).  No breaky, no fixy....


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## clifffaith (Sep 14, 2020)

This is the house we paid the mortgage on for almost another year after buying our current home in June 2010. Sucker took until May 2011 to sell. The realtor, our friend, went on and on about the color being the reason it wasn't selling. Um, no, it is a perfectly acceptable color for this type of house. In fact ten years later it is still this color. We took it away from him after 6 months of following the market down, and were HAPPY to get $200K less than we started. It wasn't me who invited him to do a walk through at our current pumpkin colored home this January, and it isn't me who is saying "I wish he wasn't involved" (he's not really "involved" until they have a unit at the old folks home for us).  The new owners have let those crepe myrtles completely obscure the house now -- we had the trees cut every other year or so. BTW, when we were refinancing our current home a year later, they used the Victorian as a comp and the comment was "undesirable style" left the house sitting on the market 10 months. Undesirable my ass -- you either want a Victorian, pink or otherwise, or you don't. Zillow claims it is now worth $300K more than it was sold for. I LOVED that house -- it was my dream house, although not in my dream neighborhood. FYI the neighbors to the left hate the new owners, just like they hated us, just like they hated the owners before us who remodeled the home extensively. Thought we were all putting on airs in their not-the-best neighborhood, I guess.

ETA, our friend the realtor has sold us three homes (including the one above and our current home) and a lot -- he's a bulldog when he's putting a deal together to get us into a house. But certainly ripped his britches (as my MIL would say) on selling the pink house.


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## geekette (Sep 14, 2020)

clifffaith said:


> View attachment 26558
> 
> This is the house we paid the mortgage on for almost another year after buying our current home in June 2010. Sucker took until May 2011 to sell. The realtor, our friend, went on and on about the color being the reason it wasn't selling. Um, no, it is a perfectly acceptable color for this type of house. In fact ten years later it is still this color. We took it away from him after 6 months of following the market down, and were HAPPY to get $200K less than we started. It wasn't me who invited him to do a walk through at our current pumpkin colored home this January, and it isn't me who is saying "I wish he wasn't involved" (he's not really "involved" until they have a unit at the old folks home for us).  The new owners have let those crepe myrtles completely obscure the house now -- we had the trees cut every other year or so. BTW, when we were refinancing our current home a year later, they used the Victorian as a comp and the comment was "undesirable style" left the house sitting on the market 10 months. Undesirable my ass -- you either want a Victorian, pink or otherwise, or you don't. Zillow claims it is now worth $300K more than it was sold for. I LOVED that house -- it was my dream house, although not in my dream neighborhood. FYI the neighbors to the left hate the new owners, just like they hated us, just like they hated the owners before us who remodeled the home extensively. Thought we were all putting on airs in their not-the-best neighborhood, I guess.
> 
> ETA, our friend the realtor has sold us three homes (including the one above and our current home) and a lot -- he's a bulldog when he's putting a deal together to get us into a house. But certainly ripped his britches (as my MIL would say) on selling the pink house.


It's a lovely house!  A ton of great features just from the exterior front!  No, pink isn't the reason.   My "Earth Room" here has different colored walls (Sun, Sea, Sand, Moon, Brick).  This would not get nor tank a sale.  Color is easiest change ever.   

I Love Victorians, just never had the nerve to own one.   So much fine detail to attend to...    feels out of my league from the get-go.  

nasty neighbors ...  at least you know it's Them, not You.   I had a very annoying neighbor when I moved here, wanted me to do all kinds of things over here.  For Her.   

She once complained that my husband arrived home at 2 am.   He was a musician, that was hardly the first time he arrived home at 2 am, so I guess maybe this time she was awake.  What curfew leverage does she have on us?   If I don't care if he's out till 2, why does she care?    He always went unplugged after 8 pm, every place we lived, so we never bothered them with noise.  I think she just had to always had someone or something to pick on, and I was glad it wasn't her kids, so, fine, bring it over here.  

Luckily, her husband was great, would come along later and apologize for her.   Like when she decided we shouldn't use our motion detector light because it shone into their bedroom and something as simple as a leaf blowing could set it off (untrue).   Husband came over later and said he kept telling her they should have curtains on their bedroom window.    !!??!!   YES.   I don't know how long that light had been there, but before us.   How many years do most people wait before opting for privacy in their bedrooms?  Especially if that bedroom window is in direct view of neighbor's drive way?   Yikes, glad I am one that does not look in windows of neighbor homes.   I had never realized they had no window covering.  

I am pretty lucky now with GREAT neighbors.   They do exist, but it doesn't work to simply BE a good neighbor to HAVE a good neighbor.  Too bad.  It could have worked wonders on neurotic Ilene.


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## jackio (Sep 14, 2020)

geekette said:


> Great story!!   You just never know ...
> 
> I would be very interested in how long the furnace actually lasted!  I don't think the engineer could know something like that.   I would think, he would replace it in a year if it were in His House.  Not at all the same as claiming imminent failure.   I tend to call BS on stuff that seems fishy.  I'm glad you didn't cave.
> 
> I have been thinking I'm on borrowed time with the water heater for a long time (could be older than me, seemed old when I got here 20 years ago).  No breaky, no fixy....


The furnace lasted a year and a half   But they were okay about it because they knew it was coming.


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## DaveNV (Sep 14, 2020)

jackio said:


> The furnace lasted a year and a half   But they were okay about it because they knew it was coming.



When I sold my Washington house I had paid to have the furnace and water heater serviced and certified ahead of listing the house. The buyers could be confident the systems would work for them.  Both systems were 17 years old, but had plenty of life left in them.  I didn't hear any complaints.

Dave


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## Krteczech (Sep 14, 2020)

Well, today we looked at the house I have my eye on since 2010. Built in 1978, sold in 2015 for 355K, unobscured panoramic mountain view. Nothing was done since 2015, Zillow price shows as 505K and the seller is asking 665K. It has more stairs than we expected and sub-standard laundry arrangement. Some great features too, but we will not be moving.   As mentioned earlier, this is totally sellers market.


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## geekette (Sep 15, 2020)

Krteczech said:


> Well, today we looked at the house I have my eye on since 2010. Built in 1978, sold in 2015 for 355K, unobscured panoramic mountain view. Nothing was done since 2015, Zillow price shows as 505K and the seller is asking 665K. It has more stairs than we expected and sub-standard laundry arrangement. Some great features too, but we will not be moving.   As mentioned earlier, this is totally sellers market.


!  Holy canoly!   I should set my sights higher, maybe double Zillow ...


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## Sugarcubesea (Sep 15, 2020)

geekette said:


> Do let your neighbors know that you are planning to move.   A neighbor here just stopped by with a cash offer for my place.



Dang, with everything going on in my life, I did not think to let the neighbors know...thanks


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## rapmarks (Sep 15, 2020)

I just love that pink house clifffaith
my son has a 1890 Victorian. He went on a historic house tour and they stopped to see his house. He said I like this one, I want to see what it looks like inside.  Everyone’s jaw dropped when he just walked right in the house.


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## Glynda (Sep 15, 2020)

We are losing our pink houses, as well as other colorful houses, that made CHS stand out among cities. It's been happening as homes change hands and the new residents paint the house white, gray or beige. Makes me sad.  

I love your house, Faith!  Wouldn't change that color for anything either.


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## rickandcindy23 (Sep 15, 2020)

The trend in our neighborhood is painting brick.  Our house is only 41 years old.  

Rick would never do that.  We have enough siding to paint, and painting brick just means more house to paint every five years.  No thanks.


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## geekette (Sep 15, 2020)

rickandcindy23 said:


> The trend in our neighborhood is painting brick.  Our house is only 41 years old.
> 
> Rick would never do that.  We have enough siding to paint, and painting brick just means more house to paint every five years.  No thanks.


Some years back, a massive brick house was being built near here.  I thought it was beautiful!  Until suddenly the bricks were yellow.  ugh.

For me, it's not the maintenance, it's that I like brick, with all its beautiful imperfections.   there is a brick surround of my wood burning stove.  Some has some white, some a light red, some a 
dark red...  I love it, changing even on the same brick.   I suppose whoever  moves in will paint it.


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## WinniWoman (Sep 15, 2020)

joestein said:


> We looked at a house this weekend that had an open house.    Per my RE agent, they already had a full price offer at 629K.   It was in line with the value that Zillow had for the house.   However, they thought they could get more.    We got there about 15 mins after the open house started.    There were 4 parties ahead of us (only 2 parties in the house at a time due to COVID).  By the time we left there was an additional 6 or 7 parties waiting to go in.  Quite a few of them seemed to be flippers.
> 
> Even though I like a lot about the house, we were not interested.   They had both rabbits and dogs in the house with carpeting on the stairs and entire 2nd floor and it kinda skeezed us out.   In addition, there is a township sewer easement in the middle of yard (never saw that before).    I have no doubt that someone will make an above asking price offer.
> 
> Joe



There was just an HGTV show on with this situation. They worked out with the neighbor to redo everything and split the cost.


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## Patri (Sep 15, 2020)

Sugarcubesea said:


> Dang, with everything going on in my life, I did not think to let the neighbors know...thanks


A (weird) friend did not want her neighbors to know she was moving. She didn't like them and vice versa. She didn't tell anyone, or put a sign out front. She only wanted people to find out from a realtor. I thought that was dumb, as the neighbors might know friends or work associates moving to town, and it was a very nice neighborhood. It took her over a year to sell, for much less than she wanted.


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## geekette (Sep 15, 2020)

Patri said:


> A (weird) friend did not want her neighbors to know she was moving. She didn't like them and vice versa. She didn't tell anyone, or put a sign out front. She only wanted people to find out from a realtor. I thought that was dumb, as the neighbors might know friends or work associates moving to town, and it was a very nice neighborhood. It took her over a year to sell, for much less than she wanted.


Yikes.   People playing stupid games win stupid prizes...


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## rapmarks (Sep 15, 2020)

Patri said:


> A (weird) friend did not want her neighbors to know she was moving. She didn't like them and vice versa. She didn't tell anyone, or put a sign out front. She only wanted people to find out from a realtor. I thought that was dumb, as the neighbors might know friends or work associates moving to town, and it was a very nice neighborhood. It took her over a year to sell, for much less than she wanted.


My sister was that way. Guess who bought her condo, the upstairs neighbor for her son, through a real estate afent


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## am1 (Sep 15, 2020)

Is Zillow even reliable?  Or it can set unreasonable expectations.  To me that just goes off or previous sold price and maybe stuff registered with the county.  Not a fan of real estate agents as 6% adds up but sometimes they can get results.  If they can get people through.


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## Sugarcubesea (Sep 15, 2020)

geekette said:


> Yikes.   People playing stupid games win stupid prizes...


That was my thought exactly.


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## geekette (Sep 15, 2020)

am1 said:


> Is Zillow even reliable?  Or it can set unreasonable expectations.  To me that just goes off or previous sold price and maybe stuff registered with the county.  Not a fan of real estate agents as 6% adds up but sometimes they can get results.  If they can get people through.


No, Zillow is not reliable.   Unless an owner claims a property, Zillow knows only what it can find via public records, no info on remodels, etc.   For example, my home shows as having a half bath, none full.  I actually have 2 full baths, no halfs.  Maybe it only had a half bath back in 1941, when it was built, but I doubt it.  Something somewhere is buggered, but not something I care enough to do anything about.  

For previous sale and tax info, it's reliable.  Current pricing?  Not at all.   But, it is the best tool available to the masses.   As a seller, I expect people to look at Zillow to assess my property.  I am not claiming the property on Zillow (yet; I may but currently don't feel the need).

A realtor may or may not be able to get a better price than a person could on their own.   I think that if someone has a home with mass appeal in a desirable location, a realtor could help up that final price, or, maybe not at all necessary.   They have more resources, including exposure to buyers every single day.   I think the whole "comps" thing can be win or lose, as my realtor doesn't have much to compare with, since people back here don't sell, plus, all are one of a kind, no homes sold in the past 5 years are the least bit similar.  Since my guy thinks my home is on par with a tiny shot gun ranch 5 miles away, he is not a viable resource for me.   It's simply not a valid comparison, which shows me that he's not into this at all, done before he even starts.   Some people think they Have To use a realtor, but that has never been the case.

Like so many things, ymmv...


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## Brett (Sep 16, 2020)

clifffaith said:


> View attachment 26558
> 
> This is the house we paid the mortgage on for almost another year after buying our current home in June 2010. Sucker took until May 2011 to sell. The realtor, our friend, went on and on about the color being the reason it wasn't selling. Um, no, it is a perfectly acceptable color for this type of house. In fact ten years later it is still this color. We took it away from him after 6 months of following the market down, and were HAPPY to get $200K less than we started. It wasn't me who invited him to do a walk through at our current pumpkin colored home this January, and it isn't me who is saying "I wish he wasn't involved" (he's not really "involved" until they have a unit at the old folks home for us).  The new owners have let those crepe myrtles completely obscure the house now -- we had the trees cut every other year or so. BTW, when we were refinancing our current home a year later, they used the Victorian as a comp and the comment was "undesirable style" left the house sitting on the market 10 months. Undesirable my ass -- you either want a Victorian, pink or otherwise, or you don't. Zillow claims it is now worth $300K more than it was sold for. I LOVED that house -- it was my dream house, although not in my dream neighborhood. FYI the neighbors to the left hate the new owners, just like they hated us, just like they hated the owners before us who remodeled the home extensively. Thought we were all putting on airs in their not-the-best neighborhood, I guess.
> 
> ETA, our friend the realtor has sold us three homes (including the one above and our current home) and a lot -- he's a bulldog when he's putting a deal together to get us into a house. But certainly ripped his britches (as my MIL would say) on selling the pink house.



Victorian style is popular in coastal Virginia 
(including pink !)


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## Glynda (Sep 16, 2020)

Brett said:


> Victorian style is popular in coastal Virginia
> (including pink !)



I think the magazines and HGTV like TV shows, for the most part, are trending towards white/or light houses with black or bronze windows. People love CHS for its colorful houses but then buy and repaint their own a light color. We do have to paint wooden exteriors about every three years due to humidity and salt air even with the best grade of paint. Perhaps the light colors do not fade as much. The wooden addition to our brick house is painted a medium aqua color.


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## turkel (Sep 16, 2020)

I have a neighbor that watches too much HGTV. Her DH just told us she wants to paint her White House with black trim. Yuck. They have an orange Spanish tile roof. 

 I feel sorry for him.  She needs a new hobby or a job.


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## klpca (Sep 16, 2020)

turkel said:


> I have a neighbor that watches too much HGTV. Her DH just told us she wants to paint her White House with black trim. Yuck. They have an orange Spanish tile roof.
> 
> I feel sorry for him.  She needs a new hobby or a job.


Well we have someone in one of our walking neighborhoods that just painted their red-tiled-roof house pale pink. My husband suggested that maybe it was a gender reveal


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## DaveNV (Sep 16, 2020)

What I'm seeing on a lot of HGTV-type shows, and new homes here in my development, is a trend toward white and grey interiors. White or grey cabinets, with white or gray counters, white ceramic tile floors, grey carpeting, grey paint, and so forth.  It has zero variety, and absolutely no warmth.  In a development like mine, with southwest-colored stucco homes with red tile roofs, these "cold" interiors seem very out of place. The rental house we're currently in has white-with-grey-streaked ceramic tile floors, grey carpet in the bedrooms, light grey wall paint, and white trim.  Boring. The kitchen has dark wood cabinets, which I understand were an upgrade.  I blame the builders, too, for trying to cheapen things up.

A comment about white ceramic tile flooring:  I am not a fan.  They show every mark, every bit of dirt, and look awful most of the time.  Very difficult to keep clean.  And since Martha Stewart does not live in my house, I'm always having to fill in for her.  I can't wait till we move to our new house, with the hardwood flooring. 

Dave


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## WinniWoman (Sep 16, 2020)

DaveNV said:


> What I'm seeing on a lot of HGTV-type shows, and new homes here in my development, is a trend toward white and grey interiors. White or grey cabinets, with white or gray counters, white ceramic tile floors, grey carpeting, grey paint, and so forth.  It has zero variety, and absolutely no warmth.  In a development like mine, with southwest-colored stucco homes with red tile roofs, these "cold" interiors seem very out of place. The rental house we're currently in has white-with-grey-streaked ceramic tile floors, grey carpet in the bedrooms, light grey wall paint, and white trim.  Boring. The kitchen has dark wood cabinets, which I understand were an upgrade.  I blame the builders, too, for trying to cheapen things up.
> 
> A comment about white ceramic tile flooring:  I am not a fan.  They show every mark, every bit of dirt, and look awful most of the time.  Very difficult to keep clean.  And since Martha Stewart does not live in my house, I'm always having to fill in for her.  I can't wait till we move to our new house, with the hardwood flooring.
> 
> Dave



Sounds like our house (and the others being built). Lol!

Which is why in a way it is good I brought our farmhouse furniture here, as it has blacks, dark and light wood, etc. to warm things up.  Not to mention my giant multi colored cow face pallet knife painting that sits above our brown couch. Ceiling fans= one wood and one black. Chandelier black wrought iron. My big old oak desk. Wood floors also in kitchen, dining and living room and hallway.

Breaks it all up. And saved us tons of money to boot!


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## Brett (Sep 16, 2020)

Glynda said:


> I think the magazines and HGTV like TV shows, for the most part, are trending towards white/or light houses with black or bronze windows. People love CHS for its colorful houses but then buy and repaint their own a light color. We do have to paint wooden exteriors about every three years due to humidity and salt air even with the best grade of paint. Perhaps the light colors do not fade as much. The wooden addition to our brick house is painted a medium aqua color.



yes, fading could be a factor.  The closer you get to the coast the brighter the colors
Victorian pink or yellow style houses are not prevalent in Williamsburg or Charlottesville Virginia


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## joestein (Sep 16, 2020)

clifffaith said:


> View attachment 26558
> 
> This is the house we paid the mortgage on for almost another year after buying our current home in June 2010. Sucker took until May 2011 to sell. The realtor, our friend, went on and on about the color being the reason it wasn't selling. Um, no, it is a perfectly acceptable color for this type of house. In fact ten years later it is still this color. We took it away from him after 6 months of following the market down, and were HAPPY to get $200K less than we started. It wasn't me who invited him to do a walk through at our current pumpkin colored home this January, and it isn't me who is saying "I wish he wasn't involved" (he's not really "involved" until they have a unit at the old folks home for us).  The new owners have let those crepe myrtles completely obscure the house now -- we had the trees cut every other year or so. BTW, when we were refinancing our current home a year later, they used the Victorian as a comp and the comment was "undesirable style" left the house sitting on the market 10 months. Undesirable my ass -- you either want a Victorian, pink or otherwise, or you don't. Zillow claims it is now worth $300K more than it was sold for. I LOVED that house -- it was my dream house, although not in my dream neighborhood. FYI the neighbors to the left hate the new owners, just like they hated us, just like they hated the owners before us who remodeled the home extensively. Thought we were all putting on airs in their not-the-best neighborhood, I guess.
> 
> ETA, our friend the realtor has sold us three homes (including the one above and our current home) and a lot -- he's a bulldog when he's putting a deal together to get us into a house. But certainly ripped his britches (as my MIL would say) on selling the pink house.



A painted lady.   My kids love that style of home.


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## joestein (Sep 16, 2020)

am1 said:


> Is Zillow even reliable?  Or it can set unreasonable expectations.  To me that just goes off or previous sold price and maybe stuff registered with the county.  Not a fan of real estate agents as 6% adds up but sometimes they can get results.  If they can get people through.




In my area most of the sales prices are anywhere from 50K to 100K over Zillow for houses that are valued by Zillow at 500K - 600K.    My house is valued at 545K, but my agent had suggested listing it at $619K to get a bidding war and said I should expect $630K to $650K.   A house in my development, which is on a busier street (I am on the deepest street in the developement) and is surrounded by neighbors (I have green acres on 2 sides) just listed their house for $700K today.  They do have a lovely stone patio with a very small inground pool.

Some houses that are valued by Zillow for $700K are listing for $850K or $900K.


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## klpca (Sep 16, 2020)

joestein said:


> In my area most of the sales prices are anywhere from 50K to 100K over Zillow for houses that are valued by Zillow at 500K - 600K.    My house is valued at 545K, but my agent had suggested listing it at $619K to get a bidding war and said I should expect $630K to $650K.   A house in my development, which is on a busier street (I am on the deepest street in the developement) and is surrounded by neighbors (I have green acres on 2 sides) just listed their house for $700K today.  They do have a lovely stone patio with a very small inground pool.
> 
> Some houses that are valued by Zillow for $700K are listing for $850K or $900K.


Yeah, zillow is terrible.  Zillow still lists our next door neighbors house, about 300 square feet smaller than ours as a higher value. The only problem that I see with their estimates would be the unrealistic expectations that it gives to buyers.


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## Glynda (Sep 16, 2020)

DaveNV said:


> What I'm seeing on a lot of HGTV-type shows, and new homes here in my development, is a trend toward white and grey interiors. White or grey cabinets, with white or gray counters, white ceramic tile floors, grey carpeting, grey paint, and so forth.  It has zero variety, and absolutely no warmth.  In a development like mine, with southwest-colored stucco homes with red tile roofs, these "cold" interiors seem very out of place. The rental house we're currently in has white-with-grey-streaked ceramic tile floors, grey carpet in the bedrooms, light grey wall paint, and white trim.  Boring. The kitchen has dark wood cabinets, which I understand were an upgrade.  I blame the builders, too, for trying to cheapen things up.
> 
> A comment about white ceramic tile flooring:  I am not a fan.  They show every mark, every bit of dirt, and look awful most of the time.  Very difficult to keep clean.  And since Martha Stewart does not live in my house, I'm always having to fill in for her.  I can't wait till we move to our new house, with the hardwood flooring.
> 
> Dave



Actually, the gray and white theme has been going on for about four or five years now. I agree that gray and white can be very cold. Gray and white paints are two of the most difficult to choose. Both can look so different according to light and time of day. Both have so many undertones. And yes, every new construction house looks alike now. Gray and white. Certainly not very desert like tones.

But good news!  This too shall pass. Some magazines are featuring rich dark green sofas, blue and white interiors even a rich purple piece here and there even if they still have a gray and white bathroom. A major furniture store in High Point, NC. actually has some color back in stock. A year ago when I walked through, I was excited not to just see the beige and white or gray and white I had been seeing for past four years but those same dark green velvet sofas, rich blues, and more traditional wood furniture, I had started seeing in magazines.

 Next to travertine, I dislike white tile floors. They do show everything. Worse than white though, someone put travertine in our kitchen, half bath and laundry room and it has all these natural indentations, holes, that stuff can get ground into. Impossible to get all out even though I get on my hands and knees with a stiff brush and a toothbrush!  I’ve had a stone person here to clean them, fill the indentations and then seal them but it didn’t last long. They are going after we get new french doors across the back of our house and at the same time we get our cabinets re-painted. Though all floors, counters and backsplashes in our kitchen and bathrooms are natural stone, I am ready for some good ole but large porcelain tile!


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## DaveNV (Sep 16, 2020)

I knew white and grey had been happening for awhile, but this was my first experience with it directly away from television.  And I also note all the grey flooring, and grey furniture I see - everywhere.  There may be hope, though - the paint store guy said a new trend is bright blue accent walls.  Not sure if they were just trying to sell paint. LOL!  

I'll take my earth tones and Southwest colors. I want my house to feel warm and inviting.  With grey and white anything, I can't do that.  

Dave


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## Panina (Sep 16, 2020)

DaveNV said:


> I knew white and grey had been happening for awhile, but this was my first experience with it directly away from television.  And I also note all the grey flooring, and grey furniture I see - everywhere.  There may be hope, though - the paint store guy said a new trend is bright blue accent walls.  Not sure if they were just trying to sell paint. LOL!
> 
> I'll take my earth tones and Southwest colors. I want my house to feel warm and inviting.  With grey and white anything, I can't do that.
> 
> Dave


Grey and white decor can be warm.  You just need to add some earth tones correctly.  My new home will have grey and white and when I am done it will feel warm.  My home 35 years ago was with grey and white.  Everything comes back in style eventually.


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## Sugarcubesea (Sep 17, 2020)

am1 said:


> Is Zillow even reliable?  Or it can set unreasonable expectations.  To me that just goes off or previous sold price and maybe stuff registered with the county.  Not a fan of real estate agents as 6% adds up but sometimes they can get results.  If they can get people through.



To me Zillow is not reliable at all...My subdivision has been selling like crazy since June. One of our friends one street over put their house on the market and the first of 6 bids they got was based on zillow that showed the home was only worth $30K less then what they listed it for yet all of the other homes in our sub had prices higher then their home, their home with 6 bids sold $10K over asking and had no issues with the appraisal coming in correctly.


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## DaveNV (Sep 17, 2020)

Panina said:


> Grey and white decor can be warm.  You just need to add some earth tones correctly.  My new home will have grey and white and when I am done it will feel warm.  My home 35 years ago was with grey and white.  Everything comes back in style eventually.



Yes, I agree - it can be warm, but you have to add your own color to get there.  On its own, it's not. At least, in my experience, that's been the case. But what do I know?  

Dave


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## DaveNV (Sep 17, 2020)

Sugarcubesea said:


> To me Zillow is not reliable at all...My subdivision has been selling like crazy since June. One of our friends one street over put their house on the market and the first of 6 bids they got was based on zillow that showed the home was only worth $30K less then what they listed it for yet all of the other homes in our sub had prices higher then their home, their home with 6 bids sold $10K over asking and had no issues with the appraisal coming in correctly.



I tend to agree.  I don't know where Zillow gets some of their numbers.  In my old neighborhood, Zillow consistently said my house was worth less than just about every one of my neighbors' homes.  But mine was the exact same floorplan, and same lot size as three others on the block, even property taxes were the same.  The best I could ever figure out was that my house was the third of the 33 houses built in the neighborhood, so when some of those later homes were being built, my house was already a year or two old.  

When my house sold, it went for more than any house in the neighborhood had ever sold for.  And now, when reviewing the neighborhood, Zillow says my house is worth even more than it sold for two months ago.  I just don't get it.    

Dave


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## TravelTime (Sep 18, 2020)

Americans with mortgages have accumulated nearly $10 trillion in home equity thanks to a decade of rising home prices. Yet millions of them have fallen behind on mortgage payments and risk losing their houses.

It is a potential bonanza for rental-home investors. Since the coronavirus pandemic began, big single-family landlords have raised billions of dollars for homebuying sprees.

Even if there isn’t a surge in repossessed homes to buy cheaply off the courthouse steps—which led to the emergence of Wall Street’s landlords during the foreclosure crisis a decade ago—there is likely to be a lot of forced sales and new renters......

.....People behind on their payments aren’t being kicked out of their houses yet because of federal and local restrictions on foreclosure enacted during the pandemic. Many with federally guaranteed mortgages have entered forbearance, which allows them to skip payments for up to a year without penalty and make them up later.

Some 3.5 million home loans—a 7.01% share—were in forbearance as of Sept. 6, according to the Mortgage Bankers Association. Many more borrowers are behind on their paymentsbut not in forbearance programs with their lenders......










						Millions Are House-Rich but Cash-Poor. Wall Street Landlords Are Ready.
					

Since the coronavirus pandemic began, big single-family landlords have raised billions of dollars for homebuying sprees.




					www.wsj.com


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## TheTimeTraveler (Sep 18, 2020)

TravelTime said:


> Americans with mortgages have accumulated nearly $10 trillion in home equity thanks to a decade of rising home prices. Yet millions of them have fallen behind on mortgage payments and risk losing their houses.
> 
> It is a potential bonanza for rental-home investors. Since the coronavirus pandemic began, big single-family landlords have raised billions of dollars for homebuying sprees.
> 
> ...






A big bubble could be brewing!





.


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## bogey21 (Sep 18, 2020)

The problem with Zillow may be that the market is ratcheting up faster than their system can keep up with it...

George


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## Sugarcubesea (Sep 18, 2020)

Sugarcubesea said:


> I'm so excited our carpeting is finally going in this Thursday after multiple delays from Lowes...One step closer to listing this house....




Happy to report that our carpeting went in yesterday and not sure I would ever use Lowes again for carpeting the guys they sent this time out were great and they got it installed.  Now I just have to put the house back together. They give you a list of everything that needs to be moved. Our kitchen and bathrooms are stacked high and now this weekend we put everything back together and do final touch ups and hopefully I can list this house in about a week.


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## Glynda (Sep 18, 2020)

DaveNV said:


> I knew white and grey had been happening for awhile, but this was my first experience with it directly away from television.  And I also note all the grey flooring, and grey furniture I see - everywhere.  There may be hope, though - the paint store guy said a new trend is bright blue accent walls.  Not sure if they were just trying to sell paint. LOL!
> 
> I'll take my earth tones and Southwest colors. I want my house to feel warm and inviting.  With grey and white anything, I can't do that.
> 
> Dave



I'm seeing a lot of dark blue lower kitchen cabinets or just on the island. Accent walls too and wallpaper is popular again..


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## Glynda (Sep 18, 2020)

Panina said:


> Grey and white decor can be warm.  You just need to add some earth tones correctly.  My new home will have grey and white and when I am done it will feel warm.  My home 35 years ago was with grey and white.  Everything comes back in style eventually.



It can be!  There are warmer grays and cooler grays as well as whites. It's a study of undertones to get it right and still can vary a lot through the day and night. Adding the right accessories and accent colors can do wonders. I don't think I've ever had gray and white interior colors until this house. The upstairs bathrooms are gray and white marble with gray walls and white trim. Not the right gray wall paint though. I detect a green undertone that at times of the day doesn't quite match or blend well with the marble. Choosing paint is one of the most difficult things for me to do.


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## Laurie (Sep 18, 2020)

DaveNV said:


> What I'm seeing on a lot of HGTV-type shows, and new homes here in my development, is a trend toward white and grey interiors. White or grey cabinets, with white or gray counters, white ceramic tile floors, grey carpeting, grey paint, and so forth.  It has zero variety, and absolutely no warmth.
> 
> A comment about white ceramic tile flooring:  I am not a fan.  They show every mark, every bit of dirt, and look awful most of the time.  Very difficult to keep clean.


Whitish ceramic tile (ideally with other shades blended in) - it's actually perfect if your pet sheds mountains of white fur every other second!

I agree about the white and gray - yawn and brrr. Recently we needed some LVP for a rental unit - almost every one was gray, or else very dark. Who wants gray floors? We finally found something closest to oak-look, it took a lot of hunt-time.


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## DaveNV (Sep 18, 2020)

Laurie said:


> Whitish ceramic tile (ideally with other shades blended in) - it's actually perfect if your pet sheds mountains of white fur every other second!
> 
> I agree about the white and gray - yawn and brrr. Recently we needed some LPV for a rental unit - almost every one was gray, or else very dark. Who wants gray floors? We finally found something closest to oak-look, it took a lot of hunt-time.



The only way I can tell I have a white cat is when I put on ANY article of clothing.  LOL! 

Dave


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## WinniWoman (Sep 18, 2020)

Glynda said:


> It can be!  There are warmer grays and cooler grays as well as whites. It's a study of undertones to get it right and still can vary a lot through the day and night. Adding the right accessories and accent colors can do wonders. I don't think I've ever had gray and white interior colors until this house. The upstairs bathrooms are gray and white marble with gray walls and white trim. Not the right gray wall paint though. I detect a green undertone that at times of the day doesn't quite match or blend well with the marble. Choosing paint is one of the most difficult things for me to do.



The exterior of our cottage is gray- but it is a warm gray. It is actually called cactus and has a green tone to it. This is why I painted our front door yellow.

This compared with a couple of neighbors who have a gray siding called granite. It is a cool gray- like almost a blue gray or actually a dark slate.

My kitchen, however, has the white upper cabinets with the light gray bottoms and that "ice" white glass blacksplash tile with the stainless steel appliances and gray/white/purple granite. Definitely cool, but the wood floors and cream paint help to tone it down a bit.


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## Glynda (Sep 18, 2020)

I can see how the floors would make a difference. Area rugs too. We've had several exterior gray houses with red doors over the years. Oh, I just remembered that the exterior of our kitchen house here is gray with white trim and red doors. Until the gray and white bathrooms in our current house, I've never lived with gray interiors but I have grown tired of seeing so much of them in the magazines and on TV shows.  Since the early 1980's I've often shopped High Point, NC, once "Furniture Capitol of the World." There used to be lots of outlets and stores. Most are gone now along with a lot of US furniture manufacturing. But I still love to go there and look at furniture, especially right after market. But it had gotten a bit boring with mostly beige and white, and then gray and white furniture. However, it's changing!


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## klpca (Sep 18, 2020)

I'm completely good with neutrals because that allows me to bring in different colors in my accent pieces. I need to have neutral large pieces because I like to change my decor every 3 - 5 years and I just can't afford to change out the big pieces. I just repainted my master bath from Sherwin Williams Macadamia to Accessible Beige (kind of boring) but I was able to keep all of my existing 12 year old tile. Ask my husband - this is a full-on miracle. I have been redoing my master bedroom (white, navy, grays) so this bridged the two areas.


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## rapmarks (Sep 18, 2020)

My kitchen and master bath are grey granite and white shaker cabinets. I accented the kitchen with burgundy and the bathroom with royal blue.


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## PamMo (Sep 18, 2020)

We're at the point in our lives where we have no kids/pets in the house, so we're looking for a light, bright next home. Bring on the whites and pale greys! I've loved my Federal, Farmhouse, French Country, and Craftsman style homes with their "appropriate" colors and fabrics, but I'm ready for a change and think a pale palette will make a good backdrop for artwork collected over the years.

But, this thread is all about @Sugarcubesea! I hope she'll get multiple over-asking-price offers on her home, so she can keeping moving on!


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## Sugarcubesea (Sep 18, 2020)

I love Grey and our realtor told us to paint our house grey and white...every house in our sub that has the grey colors has sold very quickly


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## klpca (Sep 18, 2020)

PamMo said:


> We're at the point in our lives where we have no kids/pets in the house, so we're looking for a light, bright next home. Bring on the whites and pale greys! I've loved my Federal, Farmhouse, French Country, and Craftsman style homes with their "appropriate" colors and fabrics, but I'm ready for a change and think a pale palette will make a good backdrop for artwork collected over the years.
> 
> But, this thread is all about @Sugarcubesea! I hope she'll get multiple over-asking-price offers on her home, so she can keeping moving on!


I started a decorating thread in the lounge so that us wannabe decorators could binge, guilt free! Come join me!


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## klpca (Oct 4, 2020)

So how is house selling/hunting going? Did I miss an update?


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## Sugarcubesea (Oct 4, 2020)

klpca said:


> So how is house selling/hunting going? Did I miss an update?


We went this weekend and looked at 3 new houses.   One we totally dismissed as it would not work at all for us.  
One had potential, but as we were waiting outside to see the home, the listing agent came roaring up and told us the agent in the home showing it to his clients called her as they smelled gas.  We decided to pass on set the inside until they get the issue fixed. My realtor called and told me it should be fixed by Tuesday night, so we are going to see it Wednesday.  We walked the outside and love the low maintenance it would provide us.  The garage was heated and a 3 car, loved that aspect.  The two negatives are it only has 1 bathroom and when we stood outside you could see the main road and the traffic.  So we are a standstill.  We are hoping to get our house listed in the next two weeks.  Thanks so much for asking.   Last week I worked about 58 hours and now I’m pretty tired.


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## Sugarcubesea (Oct 4, 2020)

PamMo said:


> We're at the point in our lives where we have no kids/pets in the house, so we're looking for a light, bright next home. Bring on the whites and pale greys! I've loved my Federal, Farmhouse, French Country, and Craftsman style homes with their "appropriate" colors and fabrics, but I'm ready for a change and think a pale palette will make a good backdrop for artwork collected over the years.
> 
> But, this thread is all about @Sugarcubesea! I hope she'll get multiple over-asking-price offers on her home, so she can keeping moving on!


PamMo, I feel this thread is for all of us.  I really hope I just get asking price.   I had a rough week at work so could not work on the house


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## PamMo (Oct 4, 2020)

I think sometimes you need to let go of all the stress. Send it elsewhere and trust your gut. Don’t try to second guess what could have been. You’ve done all the extra steps to get the house ready, so let good Karma and offers come in!


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## Sugarcubesea (Oct 8, 2020)

PamMo said:


> I think sometimes you need to let go of all the stress. Send it elsewhere and trust your gut. Don’t try to second guess what could have been. You’ve done all the extra steps to get the house ready, so let good Karma and offers come in!




Your right, I just need to let all of the stress of the house selling, house hunt and my job, go somewhere else besides my body... If only my body would cooperate.  I just got the news at an am doctor appointment today that I have  Scoliosis.  I have had back pain since I was a kid, so I guess I'm glad to know what the issue really is...


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