# Marriott/Vistana overlay



## GregT (Feb 20, 2019)

All,

While all of this is unofficial, it is interesting reading and directionally consistent with our previous speculation -- from a contact at MVC.

Best,

Greg

----------------------------

New vacation club in Costa Rica (Los Suenos) coming shortly. 


Integration of MVC and Vistana (+ St. Regis Residence clubs) should be announced in about 6 months.  First phase of integration will be a points overlay – ability to convert MVC vacation points/weeks to Vistana staroptions and vice versa for cross-booking purposes.


Vistana weeks will likely be given a MVC Destinations enrollment value.  


Vistana/St Regis owners will likely qualify for MVC loyalty levels (Exec/Pres./Chairmans)


A level higher than Chairmans is not ruled out, but likely not coming very soon


Hyatt clubs being kept separate for now


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## Swice (Feb 20, 2019)

Hmmmm     Costa Rica would be nice.      Bet it'll be converted hotel rooms??  

Makes total sense for points overlay-- I'm sure there will be all kinds of legal hoops they'll have to satisfy and it will be "complicated" at first glance.    But the simple reality is a Vistana unit will equal x MVC points for trading purposes.   I assume this would also mean there will never again be a new build for Vistana/St. Regis and all new builds will be MVC (as in Costa Rica).


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## StevenTing (Feb 20, 2019)

I welcome all improvements.  I think DW would love to go to Costa Rica once the kids are old enough.  I need to get to a sales presentation and start asking questions.


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## Steve Fatula (Feb 20, 2019)

Hah, and I was told a level higher than Chairmans is coming in March!


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## jmhpsu93 (Feb 20, 2019)

Swice said:


> Hmmmm     Costa Rica would be nice.     _* Bet it'll be converted hotel rooms??  *_
> 
> Makes total sense for points overlay-- I'm sure there will be all kinds of legal hoops they'll have to satisfy and it will be "complicated" at first glance.    But the simple reality is a Vistana unit will equal x MVC points for trading purposes.   I assume this would also mean there will never again be a new build for Vistana/St. Regis and all new builds will be MVC (as in Costa Rica).



I stayed there on a company trip when it first opened almost 20 years ago - almost all hotel rooms IIRC.  Nice resort at the time.  As with much of Costa Rica it's a huge pain to get to.


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## jmhpsu93 (Feb 20, 2019)

I wonder how the Vistana weeks valuation will work - will they only allow mandatory resrots with Staroptions the right to enroll?  If there's a direct enrollment of those weeks into the DC program like they did for pre-2010 MVC weeks, I'll be lining up to buy SVV mandatory weeks!  You can basically get the non-mandatory Florida Sheraton resort weeks for free and the mandatory phases at SVV are pretty reasonable, too.


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## VacationForever (Feb 20, 2019)

The skeptic in me says the enrollment of Vistana into MVC will be for the 3 Flex Options programs only.  SO through resale mandatory resorts or resale Vistana weeks will not be eligible.


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## DannyTS (Feb 20, 2019)

GregT said:


> All,
> 
> While all of this is unofficial, it is interesting reading and directionally consistent with our previous speculation -- from a contact at MVC.
> 
> ...


thank you for posting this. Given everything i read it seems like a very likely outcome.


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## andysnovel (Feb 20, 2019)

VacationForever said:


> The skeptic in me says the enrollment of Vistana into MVC will be for the 3 Flex Options programs only.  SO through resale mandatory resorts or resale Vistana weeks will not be eligible.


Marriott would want as many Vistana owners and weeks involved as possible. My guess there is going to be a "buy in" option for resale owners of mandatory resorts as well as resale owners of non mandatory weeks or resorts. The direct Vistana buy folks will be grandfathered in and their ownerships automatically translated into the Marriott System. This is all speculation but fun to read and talk about, there are a few threads on this subject already, that are pages long lol


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## hangloose (Feb 20, 2019)

Many changes all leading up to the 10 year anniversary of MVCI Destination Points program:  6/20/2020!  I'm predicting MVCI may have some larger announcements, efforts, programs leading up to that date.   I'm still hoping for enrollment (at a cost) of individual post 6/20/2010 MVC resale weeks at the 10 yr anniversary without any DC Pts purchase. Say $5k per week!?!?  It would be a great financial bump for MVCI as well.  

My fear on the prediction above is that high demand weeks at high quality MVC resorts will become harder to obtain reservations at with an increased owner list (once adding Vistana owners).  Think Maui winter, Park City ski, Ocean Pointe spring break, HHI prime summer, etc.    More reason to buy fixed week/fixed unit where possible.   The optimism on the prediction above is that it increases opportunity for MVC owners to exchange into new resorts in new locations.   Always nice to have flexibility and variety, as long as the resorts are quality.


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## TXTortoise (Feb 20, 2019)

To you point, I'm concerned Marriott is going to be willing to spend more than $5/point for Maui fixed weeks, like we saw recently for a 3BR Lahaina Tower fall week, though I wonder if the 3BR was the critical characteristic.
Works if I want to sell I suppose, but I'm still looking for a few specific 2BR weeks and that will really put a floor on prices.


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## DannyTS (Feb 20, 2019)

GregT said:


> Integration of MVC and Vistana (+ St. Regis Residence clubs) should be announced in about 6 months.  First phase of integration will be a points overlay – ability to convert MVC vacation points/weeks to Vistana staroptions and vice versa for cross-booking purposes.


If this is the route they take, i would expect the Vistana mandatory resorts to become more in demand, especially platinum season at WKV and SVV Bella


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## dansimms (Feb 20, 2019)

I just got back from Los Suenos in Costa Rica. It would be a nice addition and makes sense!  We were upgraded on the Hotel Room and found it to be roughly the equivalent of Custom House in Boston, but no laundry facilities on the premises.  9 restaurants when you include the nearby Marina area.  We loved it !


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## hangloose (Feb 20, 2019)

GregT said:


> .
> 
> Integration of MVC and Vistana (+ St. Regis Residence clubs) should be announced in about 6 months.  First phase of integration will be a points overlay – ability to convert MVC vacation points/weeks to Vistana staroptions and vice versa for cross-booking purposes.



While I'm not familiar at all with Vistana's timeshare program, if it will eventually have a DC points overlay.....would that also mean those weeks would count as DC Pts towards higher MVCI status levels via potential enrollment?   IE.   Could you but a Vistana resale now....assume it gets overlaid/enrolled in 6 months....and increase your DC status level for a lower cost without the need to buy a comparable DC Pts package?  Or did I misread that completely?


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## DavidnRobin (Feb 20, 2019)

They will have to pry my VSN Mandatory resale VSE deeds from my cold dead hands...



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## CalGalTraveler (Feb 20, 2019)

I am a VSN owner new to Marriott:

1) What's the difference between points enrollment and DC points purchase?  Are these two separate points systems? or can they be combined?

2) Does elite matter in MVC? 

FWIW...If buying into the points overlay means that we lose our VSN mandatory SO status that can be passed to resale buyers, then that could be a significant a deal breaker.  Although MVC access would be nice, we can vacation quite nicely trading within VSN and trading into Marriott via II, getaways (and staying down the block at HGVC and RCI as a plan B.)


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## mjm1 (Feb 20, 2019)

DavidnRobin said:


> They will have to pry my VSN Mandatory resale VSE deeds from my cold dead hands...
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



If it works like the enrollment of Marriott weeks into the DC program, you don't give up your deed. You can still use your week like you always have, but you also have the option to convert your week into an allotment of DC points. If the enrollment fee is nominal as it was for Marriott weeks, it's a nice option to have.

Best regards.

Mike


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## mjm1 (Feb 20, 2019)

GregT said:


> All,
> 
> While all of this is unofficial, it is interesting reading and directionally consistent with our previous speculation -- from a contact at MVC.
> 
> ...



Greg, thanks for the update. Very interesting and what a lot of us had speculated may happen. We will have to wait to see the details, but I like what you are hearing. Enjoy your time on the island.

Best regards.

Mike


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## GregT (Feb 20, 2019)

CalGalTraveler said:


> I am a VSN owner new to Marriott:
> 
> 1) What's the difference between points enrollment and DC points purchase?  Are these two separate points systems? or can they be combined?
> 
> ...



CalGal,

Marriott has two types of points, although (for the most part) they are interchangeable.  They are Enrolled Points, which you receive when you redeem your enrolled week for Marriott points, and Trust Points, which you purchase directly from Marriott.   The redemption decision is not a permanent election, ie, you can redeem for points one year and then the next year use your week for personal use (or trade it in II/etc). 

Marriott has created a Trust that has a huge number of Marriott weeks in the Trust, similar to Westin Flex.   Purchasers of points will receive Trust Points that can be used to make point reservations.   Trust Points and Enrolled Points can both be used together to make your desired reservation.

Based upon the limited comments received, it appears that whatever Vistana weeks Marriott deems eligible for enrollment will be offered a corresponding number of Marriott Enrolled Points.

If that is correct, I suspect that my 1BR Platinum Bella, if it's deemed eligible for enrollment (maybe not because it's a resale purchase) will be offered 1,500 (?) Marriott Enrolled points if I enroll it and redeem it for points.   My 1BR Gold Bella might be worth 1,250 (?) Marriott Enrolled points if I enroll it and redeem it for points.

This will create opportunities/questions for each of us -- those two weeks are worth 81,000 StarOptions, but "only" 2,750 Marriott Enrolled Points -- where is the better usage?    And which system will have the reservation available?

The other option would be if Marriott doesn't ascribe specific values for weeks, and merely says that 81K StarOptions are now worth 2,750 DC points, and not have it be driven by the underlying location.

It's going to be very interesting to watch this roll out and the Starwood system (already complex) will have new variables.

With respect to Elite, I do not know how Starwood Elite status will transfer over, but I suspect that it well.  Marriott works very hard to not disenfranchise their ownership, and I think Elite status will count for something.

Time will tell -- I hope that helps (sorry if I just created more questions then I answered).

Best,

Greg


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## CalGalTraveler (Feb 21, 2019)

@GregT Thanks for clarifying and sharing what you learned. Your info makes sense. I have an MVC presentation in Mar but it sounds like it will be premature to hear anything credible about enrollment.


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## Swice (Feb 21, 2019)

hangloose said:


> While I'm not familiar at all with Vistana's timeshare program, if it will eventually have a DC points overlay.....would that also mean those weeks would count as DC Pts towards higher MVCI status levels via potential enrollment?   IE.   Could you but a Vistana resale now....assume it gets overlaid/enrolled in 6 months....and increase your DC status level for a lower cost without the need to buy a comparable DC Pts package?  Or did I misread that completely?



Good question:    Should we gamble and buy a few Starwood properties now at a cheaper rate?


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## SandyPGravel (Feb 21, 2019)

mjm1 said:


> If it works like the enrollment of Marriott weeks into the DC program, you don't give up your deed. You can still use your week like you always have, but you also have the option to convert your week into an allotment of DC points. If the enrollment fee is nominal as it was for Marriott weeks, it's a nice option to have.
> 
> Best regards.
> 
> Mike



That is my understanding too.  Similar to what VSE did with sections of the SVR that were not a part of VSN.  One of the weeks I inherited was not part of VSN I was offered to upgrade it for $500 or $600. Fairly reasonable price I thought.  I had just upgraded through the developer to combine the two EOY weeks into one annual with more SO, so I didn't(couldn't) take advantage of the offer.  So for only $10k, I got an extra 14,000 start options and VSN membership.  Live and learn.  This also fixed the problem I had when the deed was transferred into my name.  The transfer was done incorrectly and I was listed as a resale buyer when it should have been a transferred developer purchase.


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## GregT (Feb 21, 2019)

Swice said:


> Good question:    Should we gamble and buy a few Starwood properties now at a cheaper rate?


Over on the Vistana board, I did suggest that if people were on the fence about buying a Starwood week, this might tip the decision for someone to buy one.  Personally, I took the gamble and bought a Sheraton Desert Oasis over the summer, hoping it would become eligible for enrollment, but also knowing I could use it personally for March when we go to Peoria for spring training.   I don't know if it will be eligible, but it was very inexpensive to acquire.

A cautionary note:  Starwood's system is already very complicated and it is not going to be simple to integrate the two.   I don't envy the Marriott team tasked with coming up with an equitable overlay that is also enticing to the Vistana owner.   There are already winners and losers with StarOptions and this will create more.

Best,

Greg


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## m61376 (Feb 21, 2019)

Ot will be interesting to see how they allocate to Caribbean owners (St. John's, Harborside). Marriott short shifted MVC Caribbean owners when they did their allocations, supposedly based on actuarial tables rather than related to the rental rates that they were booking the unit at on Marriott.com. I wonder if Harborside and St. John's owners will get similar allocations as Aruba, St. Thomas and St. lotts owners. Integrating the two systems without ticking off either set of owners will be interesting for sure.


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## mjm1 (Feb 21, 2019)

m61376 said:


> Ot will be interesting to see how they allocate to Caribbean owners (St. John's, Harborside). Marriott short shifted MVC Caribbean owners when they did their allocations, supposedly based on actuarial tables rather than related to the rental rates that they were booking the unit at on Marriott.com. I wonder if Harborside and St. John's owners will get similar allocations as Aruba, St. Thomas and St. lotts owners. Integrating the two systems without ticking off either set of owners will be interesting for sure.



I would think they would look at MVC resorts in the same or similar locations and allocate points similar to what they did with the MVC resorts. No matter what they do they won’t be able to make everyone happy, but hopefully it will well for most people in both systems.

Best regards.

Mike


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## mjm1 (Feb 21, 2019)

GregT said:


> Over on the Vistana board, I did suggest that if people were on the fence about buying a Starwood week, this might tip the decision for someone to buy one.  Personally, I took the gamble and bought a Sheraton Desert Oasis over the summer, hoping it would become eligible for enrollment, but also knowing I could use it personally for March when we go to Peoria for spring training.   I don't know if it will be eligible, but it was very inexpensive to acquire.
> 
> A cautionary note:  Starwood's system is already very complicated and it is not going to be simple to integrate the two.   I don't envy the Marriott team tasked with coming up with an equitable overlay that is also enticing to the Vistana owner.   There are already winners and losers with StarOptions and this will create more.
> 
> ...



Greg, I like your thinking on this. We did something similar. We decided to buy another Premium 1BR at WKV, since we love the resort and get 81k SO’s. A little larger up front cost, but it’s a resort we can see using, trading within SVN, or renting. And if MVC does create an overlay system and we can enroll it then all the better. So, we didn’t see it as much of a risk, since we will use it one way or the other.

I agree that some people should consider something similar. Especially if they will use it regardless of what MVC does.

Best regards.

Mike


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## chemteach (Feb 21, 2019)

m61376 said:


> Ot will be interesting to see how they allocate to Caribbean owners (St. John's, Harborside). Marriott short shifted MVC Caribbean owners when they did their allocations, supposedly based on actuarial tables rather than related to the rental rates that they were booking the unit at on Marriott.com. I wonder if Harborside and St. John's owners will get similar allocations as Aruba, St. Thomas and St. lotts owners. Integrating the two systems without ticking off either set of owners will be interesting for sure.



This is an interesting point, because Harborside and St. John are probably the most difficult places to get for winter weeks (and maybe even summer weeks).  Princeville is much easier to get into than the Maui Westins, but from my experience, Maui is still easier to reserve than Harborside or St. John...


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## alwysonvac (Feb 21, 2019)

Thanks for sharing. 

Keeping my fingers cross that the offer to enroll will be available to all owners. I was thinking of selling one of my two Vistana weeks since I only want to book a Vistana stay every 2 to 3 years. But I’ll definitely hold off for now if Marriott access is coming .

NOTE: The initial 2010 enrollment offer to Marriott owners into their new program had different buy-in levels based on the source of purchase.

From the old 2010 thread (link)

Weeks Purchased From Marriott or through an approved broker
- Enroll 1 Week $595
- Enroll 2 or more weeks Only $695

Weeks Purchased From Third Party*
- Enroll 1 Week $1,495
- Enroll 2 or more weeks Only $1,995​


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## alwysonvac (Feb 22, 2019)

*Just thinking out loud* 

As a Vistana owner today, I have
- Annual club dues (aka SVN Fee) that cover my II membership
- Priority booking window at my home resort (12 months before check-in)
- Access to any Vistana resort at 8 months before checkin for any number of nights, in any size unit, check-in any day of the week.
- Banking (up to 2 years) and Borrowing (after prepaying MF)
- Limited Additional Fees: Banking Fee, Cancellation Fee, Housekeeping Fees
- No reservation fees 


*What could we see with this new option.*..

(1) Annual Club Dues
I'm assuming there will be an annual cost associated with any new enrollment offer.  I'm also assuming it would replace the SVN Fee.
NOTE: The annual Marriott DC Club Dues when it was first announced in 2010 was $165 and $199. Today it ranges from $205, $245 and $270 depending on status level.

*From the Marriott DC FAQs sticky thread* (link)


> *~~ Other DC Costs ~~*
> - *All Members* must pay the *annual Club Dues* fee which is based on the number of DC Points that a Trust Member owns, or, for which an Exchange Member is eligible through all Enrolled Weeks, or, a combination of both. Effective with the 2019 invoices the fees are:
> 
> *$205 Owners and Select Members*
> ...


(2) Additional Fees
I didn't see any other DC fees mentioned. Hopefully that's the case with this new offer 

(3) Tiered reservation windows based on status levels
Today, Higher DC status tiers can _reserve_ 1 night or more, three months earlier than the two lowest DC status tiers. Higher DC status tiers can _reserve_ 7 nights or more, one months earlier than the lowest DC status tier (w/o the minimum additional Points premium).

Thankfully the other systems I have, provide all members with equal reservation access - Vistana, HGVC, Disney (recently sold) and WorldMark. This was one of the reasons I sold my FSRC Aviara.
Just my two cents...This is the one thing I've always dislike about the Marriott system. I don't want to become a mega owner and/or renter just to gain access to the reservation window earlier.

*From the Marriott DC FAQs sticky thread *(link)
Membership status tiers determine various usage rules and options. See this "Benefits At A Glance" chart for a brief synopsis of some of those variances - https://www.my-vacationclub.com/en-us/owners/ownershiplevels/pdfs/orl_benefits.pdf


> The *deadline to convert Enrolled Week(s) to DC Points* varies based on status:
> 
> Owners, Select and Executive Members may elect conversion on or before September 30 of the year prior to the Use Year
> Presidential and Chairman's Club Members may elect conversion on or before October 31 of the year prior to the Use Year.
> ...


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## CalGalTraveler (Feb 22, 2019)

alwysonvac said:


> *Just thinking out loud*
> 
> Just my two cents...This is the one thing I've always dislike about the Marriott system. I don't want to become a mega owner and/or renter just to gain access to the reservation window earlier.
> 
> ​



Like you, one of the reasons we selected WKORV over MOC was that we didn't want to be compelled to buy an extra week just to gain access to earlier reservations (lower capital buy-in; lower MF burden). Plus it had the flexibility of the SO system in addition to II included; MOC only trades in II, unless one pays extra to enroll the week.

So hypothetically if one enrolls a Vistana week into Marriott points they pay:

1) Enrollment fee
2) Annual Club Fee (would replace SVN club fee?)
3) MF for Week (as before)
4) MF on the enrollment of that week (?) or is that for additional DC points beyond the week?

We own mandatory so want to make sure that doesn't go away with enrollment.


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## mjm1 (Feb 22, 2019)

CalGalTraveler said:


> Like you, one of the reasons we selected WKORV over MOC was that we didn't want to be compelled to buy an extra week just to gain access to earlier reservations (lower capital buy-in; lower MF burden). Plus it had the flexibility of the SO system in addition to II included; MOC only trades in II, unless one pays extra to enroll the week.
> 
> So hypothetically if one enrolls a Vistana week into Marriott points they pay:
> 
> ...



There is the annual club fee, which is based on the number of points you own in the system (using the level- Chairman, President, Executive, etc). It is hard to say at this point if the club fee would cover the SVN fee, but my current thought is that it wouldn’t. However, there are no other maintenance fees in addition to what you currently have unless you buy more points. I doubt that they would or could remove the mandatory status of a unit as your use within the SVN system would remain the same. An overlay system would not change anything within Vistana, it would only be an additional feature available to those who chose to enroll in the DC program. 

Best regards.

Mike


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## CalGalTraveler (Feb 22, 2019)

That's good to know. Hopefully Marriott won't get greedy.

I am sure that once they announce, TUG will be lit up with questions on whether the additional cost to enroll will be worth it given alternatives (II, getaways, rental, TUG exchange, or stay down the block at Vistana or HGVC).

However I do like the idea of staying for less than a full week which you can't get with renting, II or getaways and the ease of making reservations. Biggest competitor to enrollment will be the whether there are unique locations, perks, or features we want compared to VSN and HGVC which we can't access today for free with existing ownerships and MF.


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## mjm1 (Feb 22, 2019)

I agree. We love our Marriott resorts and those we can use DC to trade into, and we love our Vistana resorts and those we have used SO’s to trade into. We will keep using our Vistana resorts as we do now, but if the enrollment cost is reasonable (similar to what MVC first charged to enroll weeks) we would enroll our Vistana weeks just so we have even more flexibility.

As GregT likes to say, fun stuff!

Best regards.

Mike


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## DannyTS (Feb 22, 2019)

alwysonvac said:


> *Just thinking out loud*
> 
> As a Vistana owner today, I have
> - Annual club dues (aka SVN Fee) that cover my II membership
> ...


Let's not forget that an integrated product may mean less interval trading

i pay a VSN fee for my mandatory contract, an Interval annual fee for my voluntary contracts, platinum membership, exchange fees and possible upgrades. Since they all are now under the same roof, it is hard for me to see, even in the best case scenario, that i would not pay at least an equivalent amount of money if the Vistana and Marriott resale owners are to be invited to the integrated program.


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## dsmrp (Feb 22, 2019)

mjm1 said:


> Greg, I like your thinking on this. We did something similar. We decided to buy another Premium 1BR at WKV, since we love the resort and get 81k SO’s. A little larger up front cost, but it’s a resort we can see using, trading within SVN, or renting. And if MVC does create an overlay system and we can enroll it then all the better. So, we didn’t see it as much of a risk, since we will use it one way or the other.
> 
> I agree that some people should consider something similar. Especially if they will use it regardless of what MVC does.
> 
> ...



Yup we did something similar to both Greg and Mike. Except we bought Hyatt  cause prices dropped, ROFR waived left and right, Hyatt system has some unique locations, and in worse case scenario, we'd mostly use where we bought. Probably a bigger gamble than buying Kierland. But it'll take a while before Marriott tries to integrate HRC.

Sandra


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## Pocky87 (Feb 28, 2019)

Did any one see the latest membership directory on Bonvoy status? And know what it means?
Are they saying that all eligible select and executive level members are going to be Titanium members as well?


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## VacationForever (Feb 28, 2019)

Pocky87 said:


> Did any one see the latest membership directory on Bonvoy status? And know what it means?
> Are they saying that all eligible select and executive level members are going to be Titanium members as well?


Is it out on the web somewhere?  Please send link.

This is still the same one as before on MVC site.  
https://www.marriottvacationsworldwide.com/common/cms/mvc/pdfs/owners/Owner-Benefit-Level.pdf


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## bazzap (Feb 28, 2019)

Pocky87 said:


> Did any one see the latest membership directory on Bonvoy status? And know what it means?
> Are they saying that all eligible select and executive level members are going to be Titanium members as well?


I am not sure if the updated chart has been formally published yet, but I believe select and executive level members may get Platinum level not Titanium level?


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## BigMac (Feb 28, 2019)

Just listened to the webcast of MVC's quarterly results. No mention of Los Suenos. Only mentioned the Westin St Johns reopening and San Francisco Pulse at the end of the 2nd Quarter. Talked about the VRI Europe sale. Did not see any imminent other sales or acquisitions. Welk Resorts and Shell Resorts left II and went to RCI. Said there was "softness" in Mexico because of the recent drug violence. Plan on having an Investor Day in Orlando by the end of the year.

Separately got this e-mail from Newport Coast sales.

You are invited to embark on a journey of discovery during an exciting upcoming Owner event on Saturday 3/9 or Sunday 3/10 at: *The Sheraton La Jolla Hotel!*

Join us for this exclusive 120-minute presentation as we explore the expanded Owner benefit levels and enhancements, as well as review the flexible options available through the Marriott Vacation Club Destinations® Program, including:


extended reservations windows,
improved borrowing rules,
extended banking and election deadlines
There are so many exciting reasons to come in and hear how your ownership benefits have been improved over the last few months, including:


the launching of the Pulse Collection,
access to over 2,000 private vacation homes through Destination Escapes,
And *our merger with Westin Vacations, giving you access to 45 new properties*!

As a thank you for attending, we would like to give you a special gift! You can select from:

*40,000 Marriott Reward Points or $200 American Express Gift Card!*

Seating is limited so schedule your presentation today! The following dates and times are still available:

*Saturday 3/9 at : 10am, 1pm or 4pm or Sunday 3/10 at : 10am 1pm or 4pm  *Just a friendly reminder, if you are married or living with a partner, it is required that you and your spouse/partner attend the presentation. It is important for you both to have the opportunity to hear about the enhancements, ask questions, and gain more insight into your ownership benefits.


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## Pocky87 (Feb 28, 2019)

Is this the same as the members site of MVC worldwide? I saw this within the members site after login, where there is a bonvoy option


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## VacationForever (Feb 28, 2019)

Pocky87 said:


> Is this the same as the members site of MVC worldwide? I saw this within the members site after login, where there is a bonvoy option


It is confusing verbiage but I read it that the status of Select and Executive remains as Bonvoy Platinum.


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## VacationForever (Feb 28, 2019)

BigMac said:


> And *our merger with Westin Vacations, giving you access to 45 new properties*!



This statement is interesting, which means that MVC DC owners will have access to 45 new properties in the Vistana system.


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## Pocky87 (Feb 28, 2019)

VacationForever said:


> It is confusing verbiage but I read it that the status of Select and Executive remains as Bonvoy Platinum.




So i called MVCAP for clarification, and it seem that they are doing the upgrade for existing eligible members including select and executive level


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## Fasttr (Feb 28, 2019)

VacationForever said:


> This statement is interesting, which means that MVC DC owners will have access to 45 new properties in the Vistana system.


Could also just mean we have access via conversion to Bonvoy points and booking that way.  Or booking via the Explorer Collection at a not so good conversion.


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## VacationForever (Feb 28, 2019)

Fasttr said:


> Could also just mean we have access via conversion to Bonvoy points and booking that way.


Possibly...


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## rickandcindy23 (Mar 18, 2019)

Being an owner of many non-enrolled Vistana weeks, I am very concerned that we will be left in the cold.  After all, we did buy resale, and we didn't pay much for any of our weeks.  But can they end up being worth even less than they are now, which is zero?  HA!


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## farsighted99 (Mar 20, 2019)

Went to an owner's update a couple of days ago at WSJ.

Sounds like the Marriott/Vistana combo thing is a done deal.  Probably by the end of the year.

Was told there were 80 Marriott properties we could exchange into.


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## Sicnarf (Mar 20, 2019)

Anyone heard if MVCI going to align the Elite Tiers as well?  Right now, Vistana 5*Elite seems to map to MVCI Executive (?) instead of Presidential or Ambassador.   As a 5*Elite I only got BonVoy Platinum whereas MVCI Presidential or Ambassador got BonVoy Titanium or Ambassador Elite.


----------



## DannyTS (Mar 20, 2019)

farsighted99 said:


> Went to an owner's update a couple of days ago at WSJ.
> 
> Sounds like the Marriott/Vistana combo thing is a done deal.  Probably by the end of the year.
> 
> Was told there were 80 Marriott properties we could exchange into.


I guess no hint about retail/resale and resale mandatory/voluntary


----------



## vacationtime1 (Mar 21, 2019)

farsighted99 said:


> Went to an owner's update a couple of days ago at WSJ.
> 
> Sounds like the Marriott/Vistana combo thing is a done deal.  Probably by the end of the year.
> 
> Was told there were 80 Marriott properties we could exchange into.



Were the salesman's lips moving when he said that?

I assume there was nothing in writing.


----------



## farsighted99 (Mar 21, 2019)

vacationtime1 said:


> Were the salesman's lips moving when he said that?
> 
> I assume there was nothing in writing.



well, actually I saw something on the chalk board that mentioned Marriott.  But no. No details.  But I'm sure it's gonna happen.  And yep, his lips were moving...


----------



## mjm1 (May 10, 2019)

I shared this in the thread that GregT also started in the Vistana forum, but wanted to share it here as well. I saw this statement from the CEO in the VAC quarterly update:

“Looking ahead to 2020, we have begun focusing on product enhancements for the various brands. Specifically, we are working hard to develop an integrated product form that can be leveraged across the Marriott Western and Sheridan brands enhancing the overall value proposition for our owners and customers. It will take time to finalize and roll out this new product for. However, we are very excited about the potential it will provide and we look forward to updating you in the future as this work evolves.”

Of course no details are available, but they are indeed working on a program. We will have to wait until 2020 for details.

Best regards.

Mike


----------



## rickandcindy23 (May 10, 2019)

They spelled it Sheridan?  What the heck is Sheridan?  That is a street in Denver and a town in Wyoming.


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## bizaro86 (May 10, 2019)

rickandcindy23 said:


> They spelled it Sheridan?  What the heck is Sheridan?  That is a street in Denver and a town in Wyoming.



That quote is from the conference call, so the VAC executives were speaking.

The person doing the transcript for $1.85 an hour in India spelled it that way...

Link is here: https://seekingalpha.com/article/42...ceo-steve-weisz-q1-2019-results-earnings-call


----------



## SteelerGal (May 10, 2019)

Y


bizaro86 said:


> That quote is from the conference call, so the VAC executives were speaking.
> 
> The person doing the transcript for $1.85 an hour in India spelled it that way...
> 
> Link is here: https://seekingalpha.com/article/42...ceo-steve-weisz-q1-2019-results-earnings-call


Thanks for the link.  Great information such as rebranding of Sheraton, Westin/ Sheraton Sales, Westin Buyback Program, Westin Flex Program, etc.  Very interesting.


----------



## KACTravels (May 10, 2019)

Here is the quote from the meeting notes on Motley Fool:  "We have begun focusing on product enhancements for the various brands. Specifically, we are working hard to develop an integrated product form that can be leveraged across the Marriott, Westin, and Sheraton brands, enhancing the overall value proposition for our owners and customers. It will take time to finalize and roll out this new product form. However, we are very excited about the potential it will provide, and we look forward to updating you in the future as this work evolves."


----------



## KACTravels (May 10, 2019)

Interesting, regarding Buy Backs and Vistana ... 
"Around 40% of our legacy MVC owners are still weeks owners, ergo 60% of the legacy MVC owners are points owners. Now keep in mind, since 2010, we've been selling nothing but points. So over time, you would expect that percentage to shift. As -- the exit program, as you've mentioned, people that have owned the product for 10, 15, 20 years, whatever it is, and for whatever reason, because of a life event has decided that they don't want to own it anymore and we buy it back.
And then that happens, then we take that inventory and we put it into our Florida-based land trust, and then we turn around and sell them as points. So just doing that cadence, the percentage will continue to drop over time. When that -- what that number finally becomes and all that is hard to imagine. I would point out also that in the Vistana businesses, they had a very, very modest buyback program, and we've begun to amp that up, as you might imagine."


----------



## SteelerGal (May 10, 2019)

KACTravels said:


> Interesting, regarding Buy Backs and Vistana ...
> "Around 40% of our legacy MVC owners are still weeks owners, ergo 60% of the legacy MVC owners are points owners. Now keep in mind, since 2010, we've been selling nothing but points. So over time, you would expect that percentage to shift. As -- the exit program, as you've mentioned, people that have owned the product for 10, 15, 20 years, whatever it is, and for whatever reason, because of a life event has decided that they don't want to own it anymore and we buy it back.
> And then that happens, then we take that inventory and we put it into our Florida-based land trust, and then we turn around and sell them as points. So just doing that cadence, the percentage will continue to drop over time. When that -- what that number finally becomes and all that is hard to imagine. I would point out also that in the Vistana businesses, they had a very, very modest buyback program, and we've begun to amp that up, as you might imagine."


Yes, they are going to push Westin Flex into Hyper Drive.  Currently since you have SOs for internal trading, you buy a home resort and trade in.


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## dioxide45 (May 10, 2019)

Westin has to be more aggressive with buybacks since they have so few properties with ROFR. I think this is why they push turning your weeks back in to buy Flex. Some people have been offered to turn back in 6 or 7 weeks and get the same number of SOs for only about $10,000 in new money.


----------



## bizaro86 (May 10, 2019)

dioxide45 said:


> Westin has to be more aggressive with buybacks since they have so few properties with ROFR. I think this is why they push turning your weeks back in to buy Flex. Some people have been offered to turn back in 6 or 7 weeks and get the same number of SOs for only about $10,000 in new money.



That's interesting. I'd probably be willing to "buy" 5 gold 2 bedroom at wmh/wdw and add $10k to swap that into 300-400k westin flex...

Big risk though is if they wouldn't do it at a good price you'd be stuck...


----------



## SteelerGal (May 10, 2019)

bizaro86 said:


> That's interesting. I'd probably be willing to "buy" 5 gold 2 bedroom at wmh/wdw and add $10k to swap that into 300-400k westin flex...
> 
> Big risk though is if they wouldn't do it at a good price you'd be stuck...


The problem is they are non mandatory but have high MF.  I truly wonder why they decided to not make the CA locations non mandatory.


----------



## bizaro86 (May 10, 2019)

SteelerGal said:


> The problem is they are non mandatory but have high MF.  I truly wonder why they decided to not make the CA locations non mandatory.



Does mandatory status matter on trade in? That wasn't my impression (and they offered to take my SDO in trade toward a Nanea package the last time I went to a presentation...)


----------



## bizaro86 (May 10, 2019)

SteelerGal said:


> Y
> Thanks for the link.  Great information such as rebranding of Sheraton, Westin/ Sheraton Sales, Westin Buyback Program, Westin Flex Program, etc.  Very interesting.



They said they were NOT rebranding the Sheraton resorts. An analyst asked them about it, and they said no.


----------



## VacationForever (May 10, 2019)

SteelerGal said:


> The problem is they are non mandatory but have high MF.  I truly wonder why they decided to not make the CA locations non mandatory.


It has nothing to do with CA locations or not.  It was a matter of timing.  Starwood rolled out mandatory designation on new resorts for a short period of time before they pulled it for later built resorts when they realized that mandatory resorts would cause them to lose new business to resale mandatory ownership.  They never did retrofit the older CA resorts when they developed the mandatory program.


----------



## SteelerGal (May 10, 2019)

VacationForever said:


> It has nothing to do with CA locations or not.  It was a matter of timing.  Starwood rolled out mandatory designation on new resorts for a short period of time before they pulled it for later built resorts when they realized that mandatory resorts would cause them to lose new business to resale mandatory ownership.  They never did retrofit the older CA resorts when they developed the mandatory program.


And they should have corrected it.  Marriott Deserts do very well in the area but Westin is like a step child.  I envision eventual changes.


----------



## dioxide45 (May 10, 2019)

bizaro86 said:


> Does mandatory status matter on trade in? That wasn't my impression (and they offered to take my SDO in trade toward a Nanea package the last time I went to a presentation...)


I would think they would be more aggressive to try to get back mandatory weeks, only because once the dump them in the Flex trust they become voluntary. They could dry up the supply of resale mandatory weeks over time.


----------



## SteelerGal (May 10, 2019)

M


bizaro86 said:


> They said they were NOT rebranding the Sheraton resorts. An analyst asked them about it, and they said no.


Correct. Meant to say repositioning.   Repositioning to me means they are looking how to revitalize the Brand.


----------



## VacationForever (May 10, 2019)

SteelerGal said:


> And they should have corrected it.  Marriott Deserts do very well in the area but Westin is like a step child.  I envision eventual changes.


On the contrary.  Starwood - Vistana, now Marriott will find all ways to get rid of the mandatory program if they could but they cannot do so legally.

I do not know what you meant by Marriott Deserts do very well but not Westin. 

They are both dime a dozen in the resale market.


----------



## dioxide45 (May 10, 2019)

VacationForever said:


> On the contrary. Starwood - Vistana, now Marriott will find all ways to get rid of the mandatory program if they could but they cannot do so legally.


The only legal way is to reacquire as many weeks at mandatory resorts as possible and add them to the Flex trusts.


----------



## SteelerGal (May 10, 2019)

VacationForever said:


> On the contrary.  Starwood - Vistana, now Marriott will find all ways to get rid of the mandatory program if they could but they cannot do so legally.
> 
> I do not know what you meant by Marriott Deserts do very well but not Westin.
> 
> They are both dime a dozen in the resale market.


Marriotts still has a better resale value than both Westin’s and Marriott has 4 properties.


----------



## SteelerGal (May 10, 2019)

dioxide45 said:


> The only legal way is to reacquire as many weeks at mandatory resorts as possible and add them to the Flex trusts.


True.  Which means they most likely will aggressively go after WKV and SDO.


----------



## VacationForever (May 10, 2019)

SteelerGal said:


> True.  Which means they most likely will aggressively go after WKV and SDO.


SDO is voluntary.


----------



## tschwa2 (May 10, 2019)

There is no rofr at wkv so how will they aggressively go after it?


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## dioxide45 (May 10, 2019)

tschwa2 said:


> There is no rofr at wkv so how will they aggressively go after it?


The only way they can is to try to get people to trade their weeks in and have them buy Flex in the transaction. You may think it is far fetched, but people have been known to turn in WKORV and buy Nanea HomeOptions. This may be easy for lower seasons but not so much for the Plat+ weeks.


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## mjm1 (May 10, 2019)

dioxide45 said:


> The only way they can is to try to get people to trade their weeks in and have them buy Flex in the transaction. You may think it is far fetched, but people have been known to turn in WKORV and buy Nanea HomeOptions. This may be easy for lower seasons but not so much for the Plat+ weeks.



That’s exactly what they wanted us to do with one of our WKV units, but we declined their offer. I don’t recall the details, but I didn’t want to give up our mandatory unit for the voluntary Westin Flex program. However, I met an owner this week who did make the deal. I didn’t bother getting into the details, but they said they were happy with it. Wait until they decide to sell it if that ever happens. Ouch! 

Best regards.

Mike


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## SteelerGal (May 10, 2019)

tschwa2 said:


> There is no rofr at wkv so how will they aggressively go after it?


Buyback and Exit Programs.


----------



## SteelerGal (May 10, 2019)

VacationForever said:


> SDO is voluntary.


It’s part of Sheraton Flex.  And they are going to “reposition “ Sheraton.  
Marriott has been quite successful w/ Points.  They need to get more Point owners instead of weeks.


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## VacationForever (May 10, 2019)

SteelerGal said:


> It’s part of Sheraton Flex.  And they are going to “reposition “ Sheraton.
> Marriott has been quite successful w/ Points.  They need to get more Point owners instead of weeks.


Sheraton Flex is also voluntary.  I won't swap a SDO for Sheraton Flex, even for free.


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## dioxide45 (May 10, 2019)

VacationForever said:


> Sheraton Flex is also voluntary.  I won't swap a SDO for Sheraton Flex, even for free.


They do seem to be willing to. People have reported either retroing their voluntary weeks or turning them back in when buying Flex.


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## dms11 (May 28, 2019)

Has there been any recent news (or rumors) regarding ability of Vistana owners to book directly through MVC (and vice versa)?  Currently, the only way to do that (supposedly) is through Interval International, but that is a joke.  Finding anything good through II is next to impossible, so far as I can tell.


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## dioxide45 (May 28, 2019)

dms11 said:


> Has there been any recent news (or rumors) regarding ability of Vistana owners to book directly through MVC (and vice versa)?  Currently, the only way to do that (supposedly) is through Interval International, but that is a joke.  Finding anything good through II is next to impossible, so far as I can tell.


No news yet.


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## JIMinNC (May 29, 2019)

dms11 said:


> Has there been any recent news (or rumors) regarding ability of Vistana owners to book directly through MVC (and vice versa)?  Currently, the only way to do that (supposedly) is through Interval International, but that is a joke.  Finding anything good through II is next to impossible, so far as I can tell.



Not sure if you have read this entire thread or not, but this was posted earlier in the thread after Marriott Vacations Worldwide's investor earnings conference call. CEO Stephen Weisz made the first official comment on the possibility of Vistana/Marriott cross-program bookings. Since this was in an investor presentation, it is legally required to be factual, not sales spin. Here is the comment:

"Looking ahead to 2020, we have begun focusing on product enhancements for the various brands. Specifically, we are working hard to develop an integrated product form that can be leveraged across the Marriott, Westin, and Sheraton brands enhancing the overall value proposition for our owners and customers. It will take time to finalize and roll out this new product form. However, we are very excited about the potential it will provide and we look forward to updating you in the future as this work evolves.”

So, official confirmation they are working on *something*, but no detail on what or when - other than it will be 2020. Speculation has been they might choose to roll it out as a celebration of the 10-year anniversary of the MVC Destination Club points system in summer 2020.


----------



## 2boysmom (May 29, 2019)

JIMinNC said:


> Not sure if you have read this entire thread or not, but this was posted earlier in the thread after Marriott Vacations Worldwide's investor earnings conference call. CEO Stephen Weisz made the first official comment on the possibility of Vistana/Marriott cross-program bookings. Since this was in an investor presentation, it is legally required to be factual, not sales spin. Here is the comment:
> 
> "Looking ahead to 2020, we have begun focusing on product enhancements for the various brands. Specifically, we are working hard to develop an integrated product form that can be leveraged across the Marriott, Westin, and Sheraton brands enhancing the overall value proposition for our owners and customers. It will take time to finalize and roll out this new product form. However, we are very excited about the potential it will provide and we look forward to updating you in the future as this work evolves.”
> 
> So, official confirmation they are working on *something*, but no detail on what or when - other than it will be 2020. Speculation has been they might choose to roll it out as a celebration of the 10-year anniversary of the MVC Destination Club points system in summer 2020.


Thank you Jim.  You are so diligent about keeping very current on developments and I really appreciate your efforts.  Looking forward to seeing how this plays out.


----------



## dms11 (May 30, 2019)

JIMinNC said:


> Not sure if you have read this entire thread or not, but this was posted earlier in the thread after Marriott Vacations Worldwide's investor earnings conference call. CEO Stephen Weisz made the first official comment on the possibility of Vistana/Marriott cross-program bookings. Since this was in an investor presentation, it is legally required to be factual, not sales spin. Here is the comment:
> 
> "Looking ahead to 2020, we have begun focusing on product enhancements for the various brands. Specifically, we are working hard to develop an integrated product form that can be leveraged across the Marriott, Westin, and Sheraton brands enhancing the overall value proposition for our owners and customers. It will take time to finalize and roll out this new product form. However, we are very excited about the potential it will provide and we look forward to updating you in the future as this work evolves.”
> 
> So, official confirmation they are working on *something*, but no detail on what or when - other than it will be 2020. Speculation has been they might choose to roll it out as a celebration of the 10-year anniversary of the MVC Destination Club points system in summer 2020.




Yes, thank you Jim.  I too am looking forward to how this plays out.  I am refraining from using most of my Vistana options for 2020 in hopes of being able to use them at MVC properties.


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## JIMinNC (May 30, 2019)

dms11 said:


> Yes, thank you Jim.  I too am looking forward to how this plays out.  I am refraining from using most of my Vistana options for 2020 in hopes of being able to use them at MVC properties.



Based on what they said in the investor call, probably can't count on any kind of cross-booking before 2020, so by then many MVC 2020 dates will already be booked. Planning on 2021 might be more realistic perhaps.


----------



## TravelTime (May 30, 2019)

I am guessing they are either working on an integrated system all owners can trade in or they are introducing a new integrated system that does not allow owners to trade in unless they buy in or they get grandfathered in. This is the critical missing info. What, if anything, we current owners get out of them?


----------



## bobpark56 (May 31, 2019)

The internal booking and exchange programs are so different, i can't imagine how this would work...either for points members or legacy owners: Vistana has no internal exchange costs and no skim, Marriott DP folks can book 5 months or so earlier than equivalent StarOptions owners. If you are exchanging through Interval, Marriott lets you get and deposit a week of your choice (for  fee), Vistana chooses and releases units with no input from you.


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## JIMinNC (May 31, 2019)

bobpark56 said:


> The internal booking and exchange programs are so different, i can't imagine how this would work...either for points members or legacy owners: Vistana has no internal exchange costs and no skim, Marriott DP folks can book 5 months or so earlier than equivalent StarOptions owners. If you are exchanging through Interval, Marriott lets you get and deposit a week of your choice (for  fee), Vistana chooses and releases units with no input from you.



Most of the speculation has centered around Marriott allowing Vistana weeks to join the Destination Club, and assigning an election point value for each week for access to the MVC resorts and vice versa. Such an option would not replace StarOptions, but would be another usage option in addition to Home Week booking, StarOptions booking, Interval Deposit, etc. How they would handle the Flex programs would be a bit more complicated - maybe they would develop a conversion factor from FlexOptions to MVC Destination Points.

It's all speculation at this point, but what would stop MVC from allowing a Vistana owner the additional *option* to join the Destination Club and elect their week for a certain number of Destination Points on the same schedule as an MVC owner? A Vistana owner could book their home week at 12 months, use StarOptions at 8 months, or elect for DC Points and book in the MVC system 12/13 months out. There are probably issues I haven't considered, but just thinking about it high level, it seems like it could work as an additional option. Once the Vistana owner elected for DC points, those weeks would then also become bookable with DC points by MVC owners.


----------



## Swice (Jun 1, 2019)

JIMinNC said:


> Most of the speculation has centered around Marriott allowing Vistana weeks to join the Destination Club, and assigning an election point value for each week for access to the MVC resorts and vice versa. Such an option would not replace StarOptions, but would be another usage option in addition to Home Week booking, StarOptions booking, Interval Deposit, etc. How they would handle the Flex programs would be a bit more complicated - maybe they would develop a conversion factor from FlexOptions to MVC Destination Points.
> 
> It's all speculation at this point, but what would stop MVC from allowing a Vistana owner the additional *option* to join the Destination Club and elect their week for a certain number of Destination Points on the same schedule as an MVC owner? A Vistana owner could book their home week at 12 months, use StarOptions at 8 months, or elect for DC Points and book in the MVC system 12/13 months out. There are probably issues I haven't considered, but just thinking about it high level, it seems like it could work as an additional option. Once the Vistana owner elected for DC points, those weeks would then also become bookable with DC points by MVC owners.



That has basically been my assumption all along.    They'll sell it the same way they did before: "adding options" on top of what owners already have.     "You can continue using your timeshare as you always have, trade it, or elect DC points."    Sound familiar?        

I'm actually wondering more about the back office integration.    I'm not sure-- in the long run-- why they would need to run different brands: Marriott, Sheraton, Westin, etc.       Marriott hotels has different "brands," but each one is aimed at a different segment of the travel audience.     While each timeshare started as a connection to a different brand for marketing and loyalty purposes, there really is no longer anything differential about each... they're all timeshares that offer the same things.     Looks like to me they could all be wrapped under the same management, standardize practices, order the same laundry soap, towels, sheets and tv's.     Just visited a Sheraton property and missed a real dish rag (we were given a disposable rag), had different shampoo and soap and different dishes.     Seems to me bulk buying across the lines would save some money.


----------



## controller1 (Jun 1, 2019)

Swice said:


> . . .
> I'm not sure-- in the long run-- why they would need to run different brands: Marriott, Sheraton, Westin, etc.       Marriott hotels has different "brands," but each one is aimed at a different segment of the travel audience.     While each timeshare started as a connection to a different brand for marketing and loyalty purposes, there really is no longer anything differential about each... they're all timeshares that offer the same things.     Looks like to me they could all be wrapped under the same management, standardize practices, order the same laundry soap, towels, sheets and tv's.     Just visited a Sheraton property and missed a real dish rag (we were given a disposable rag), had different shampoo and soap and different dishes.     Seems to me bulk buying across the lines would save some money.



Well, after regular visits to timeshares associated with both Sheraton and Westin, in my opinion those timeshare brands are aimed at a different segment of the timeshare audience.


----------



## Swice (Jun 1, 2019)

controller1 said:


> Well, after regular visits to timeshares associated with both Sheraton and Westin, in my opinion those timeshare brands are aimed at a different segment of the timeshare audience.



I would certainly agree there are still carryovers from their original missions.    But going forward, Marriott is certainly not going to continue to build new Sheratons, new Westins, new Marriotts.   They will all go into the trust.   MVC will finish what was started and then going forward they'll all have a common name of something genius like Bonvoy ;-)      And they'll want to sell that common name across all the properties, or wherever trust units are located.


----------



## Sapper (Jun 1, 2019)

Swice said:


> That has basically been my assumption all along.    They'll sell it the same way they did before: "adding options" on top of what owners already have.     "You can continue using your timeshare as you always have, trade it, or elect DC points."    Sound familiar?
> 
> I'm actually wondering more about the back office integration.    I'm not sure-- in the long run-- why they would need to run different brands: Marriott, Sheraton, Westin, etc.       Marriott hotels has different "brands," but each one is aimed at a different segment of the travel audience.     While each timeshare started as a connection to a different brand for marketing and loyalty purposes, there really is no longer anything differential about each... they're all timeshares that offer the same things.     Looks like to me they could all be wrapped under the same management, standardize practices, order the same laundry soap, towels, sheets and tv's.     Just visited a Sheraton property and missed a real dish rag (we were given a disposable rag), had different shampoo and soap and different dishes.     Seems to me bulk buying across the lines would save some money.



At one point, months ago, (I think in the Hyatt sub forum) there was a little speculation that Marriott might start to intentionally create differentiation between the different brands. Brand A more high end, brand B more family oriented, brand C more resort, brand D more destination, etc. The reason to do this would be to attract different target markets, thus having a larger customer base across all brands than if they were to roll it all under one Marriott brand (economy of scope). Then create an overlay using II that you have to buy into, or buy into for priority booking if you already have access to II through your brand maintenance fees. 

As for the back end, this is already happening. They have moved some of the Hyatt folks (like the transfer department) under Vistana. I am guessing the customer support people will be consolidated at some point. I can easily see some economy of scale occurring with purchasing consumables. I think doing this with durable goods  may be more difficult to pull off as you would either have to refurbish multiple properties at one time (meaning you may not get full use from items with life left, costing $$$) or warehouse the product which would cost $$$, destroying any gains made through purchasing in bulk.


----------



## SteelerGal (Jun 2, 2019)

Sapper said:


> At one point, months ago, (I think in the Hyatt sub forum) there was a little speculation that Marriott might start to intentionally create differentiation between the different brands. Brand A more high end, brand B more family oriented, brand C more resort, brand D more destination, etc. The reason to do this would be to attract different target markets, thus having a larger customer base across all brands than if they were to roll it all under one Marriott brand (economy of scope). Then create an overlay using II that you have to buy into, or buy into for priority booking if you already have access to II through your brand maintenance fees.
> 
> As for the back end, this is already happening. They have moved some of the Hyatt folks (like the transfer department) under Vistana. I am guessing the customer support people will be consolidated at some point. I can easily see some economy of scale occurring with purchasing consumables. I think doing this with durable goods  may be more difficult to pull off as you would either have to refurbish multiple properties at one time (meaning you may not get full use from items with life left, costing $$$) or warehouse the product which would cost $$$, destroying any gains made through purchasing in bulk.


Buying bulk wouldn’t be an issue because Purchasing buys based on scheduled needs.(I work in IT Planning and Distribution).  Having separate departments and separate systems is costly so I can see it’s all being run out of one department.


----------



## JIMinNC (Jun 2, 2019)

Sapper said:


> At one point, months ago, (I think in the Hyatt sub forum) there was a little speculation that Marriott might start to intentionally create differentiation between the different brands. Brand A more high end, brand B more family oriented, brand C more resort, brand D more destination, etc. The reason to do this would be to attract different target markets, thus having a larger customer base across all brands than if they were to roll it all under one Marriott brand (economy of scope). Then create an overlay using II that you have to buy into, or buy into for priority booking if you already have access to II through your brand maintenance fees.



I would be surprised if any cross-brand overlay was built around II, since II is primarily a weeks-based model. Marriott has long ago moved past the weeks-based model and is now almost exclusively selling pure points in their brands. Their Vacation Ownership line of business accounted for $443 million in earnings in 2018 for Marriott Vacations Worldwide, whereas their entire Exchange and Third-Party Management line of business (of which II is just one part*) accounted for only $57 million in profits. They already have extensive Points-based systems and infrastructure in the Destination Club and the Vistana Flex programs. In my opinion, any overlay will be structured to maximize the sale of Points since that is the engine that drives the company now.

Note:
* The Exchange and Third-Party Management business line includes Interval International, Trading Places International, Vacation Resorts International, Aqua-Aston and Great Destinations.


----------



## chemteach (Jun 2, 2019)

JIMinNC said:


> Note:
> * The Exchange and Third-Party Management business line includes Interval International, Trading Places International, Vacation Resorts International, Aqua-Aston and Great Destinations.


Marriott owns VRI?  I didn't realize that...


----------



## Sapper (Jun 2, 2019)

JIMinNC said:


> I would be surprised if any cross-brand overlay was built around II, since II is primarily a weeks-based model.



It’s all speculation. No one here knows what they are going to do. Marriott owns II now, they could change how it functions to add a points component.


----------



## TravelTime (Jun 2, 2019)

JIMinNC said:


> Most of the speculation has centered around Marriott allowing Vistana weeks to join the Destination Club, and assigning an election point value for each week for access to the MVC resorts and vice versa. Such an option would not replace StarOptions, but would be another usage option in addition to Home Week booking, StarOptions booking, Interval Deposit, etc. How they would handle the Flex programs would be a bit more complicated - maybe they would develop a conversion factor from FlexOptions to MVC Destination Points.
> 
> It's all speculation at this point, but what would stop MVC from allowing a Vistana owner the additional *option* to join the Destination Club and elect their week for a certain number of Destination Points on the same schedule as an MVC owner? A Vistana owner could book their home week at 12 months, use StarOptions at 8 months, or elect for DC Points and book in the MVC system 12/13 months out. There are probably issues I haven't considered, but just thinking about it high level, it seems like it could work as an additional option. Once the Vistana owner elected for DC points, those weeks would then also become bookable with DC points by MVC owners.



If these were the 3 options for my Vistana week, I would probably elect to convert my SOs to DPs most of the time to book at 13 months out wherever I want. To me it is easier to track everything in DPs that to manage multiple systems. I currently convert my 2 enrolled weeks to points and I like that. I am not really a “weeks” type of person. I wish I could convert all my DVC home resorts into one system and forget about the home resort.


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## TravelTime (Jun 2, 2019)

Sapper said:


> At one point, months ago, (I think in the Hyatt sub forum) there was a little speculation that Marriott might start to intentionally create differentiation between the different brands. Brand A more high end, brand B more family oriented, brand C more resort, brand D more destination, etc. The reason to do this would be to attract different target markets, thus having a larger customer base across all brands than if they were to roll it all under one Marriott brand (economy of scope). Then create an overlay using II that you have to buy into, or buy into for priority booking if you already have access to II through your brand maintenance fees.
> 
> As for the back end, this is already happening. They have moved some of the Hyatt folks (like the transfer department) under Vistana. I am guessing the customer support people will be consolidated at some point. I can easily see some economy of scale occurring with purchasing consumables. I think doing this with durable goods  may be more difficult to pull off as you would either have to refurbish multiple properties at one time (meaning you may not get full use from items with life left, costing $$$) or warehouse the product which would cost $$$, destroying any gains made through purchasing in bulk.



They need a W timeshare that is hip and cool and targets the younger crowd. I was just at the W Barcelona and overwhelmed by the music, lights and crowds that I checked out and moved to Hotel Arts  which is a Ritz Carlton brand. There are definitely differences between brand IMO. I am a Ritz gal and not a W target. I canceled our reservation for the W Costa Rica after that.


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## dioxide45 (Jun 2, 2019)

chemteach said:


> Marriott owns VRI?  I didn't realize that...


ILG owned VRI. VAC bought ILG and thus also acquired VRI. Though I think they sold the VRI Europe already.


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## bazzap (Jun 3, 2019)

dioxide45 said:


> ILG owned VRI. VAC bought ILG and thus also acquired VRI. Though I think they sold the VRI Europe already.


Yes, there was a post here on TUG back on Jan 19 2019
"On December 21, 2018, a subsidiary of Marriott Vacations Worldwide Corporation (“Marriott Vacations Worldwide”) completed the disposition of its 75.5% interest in VRI Europe Limited to an affiliate of the minority shareholder, CLC Resort Management Limited (“CLC”) for $63 million. In connection with the transaction, Interval International entered into a long-term extension of its global affiliation agreement with CLC Resort Developments Limited for mixed-use holiday products under its Club La Costa World (CLC World) brand."

(UNITED STATES SECURITIES AND EXCHANGE COMMISSION FORM 8-K, December 21, 2018)


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## Dean (Jun 4, 2019)

TravelTime said:


> They need a W timeshare that is hip and cool and targets the younger crowd. I was just at the W Barcelona and overwhelmed by the music, lights and crowds that I checked out and moved to Hotel Arts  which is a Ritz Carlton brand. There are definitely differences between brand IMO. I am a Ritz gal and not a W target. I canceled our reservation for the W Costa Rica after that.


Like the Horizon's project?


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## TravelTime (Jun 4, 2019)

I have never heard of the Horizon's project. I guess it failed quickly.

I am trying to google it and it sort of looks like it is an older version of MVC (perhaps pre-DPs) that included some of the current MVC resorts. It does not sound anything like the W brand or what I am thinking.

Can you tell us more about Horizon's as there is little online left about it?

P.S. Here's an old announcement from 2000 (20 years ago) and the commenter had the same question I have. What is the difference between MVC and Horizons?

https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/mar...t-launch-horizons-marriott-vacation-club.html

From what I am gathering with the iittle info online, Horizons was unhip and uncool and targeting the low end of the market and included some resorts in Branson and Orlando. This is the exact opposite of my comment about the W.

The W brand is a luxury young Gen X / old Millenial brand that is super popular with upscale young people (and some old wannabe young people too). It targets the same market as the new Virgin Cruise line. Lots of music, color, plastic furniture, no kids, etc.


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## dioxide45 (Jun 4, 2019)

TravelTime said:


> I have never heard of the Horizon's project. I guess it failed quickly.
> 
> I am trying to google it and it sort of looks like it is an older version of MVC (perhaps pre-DPs) that included some of the current MVC resorts. It does not sound anything like the W brand or what I am thinking.
> 
> ...


It was nothing like the W brand. Horizons was the former brand on Willow Ridge Lodge in Branson, MO and Harbour Lake in Orlando. There was even a rumored Gatlinburg, TN property that never happened. It was aimed at young families and carried a lower price point. Furnishings and overall decor was a noticeable step below the Marriott brand. Think laminate countertops vs granite. The concept was a failure. Young families didn't have the money to fork out the still tens of thousands of dollars for a timeshare. Prices were not that far below the full Marriott brand pricing, perhaps 10-15%. Marriott then decided to rename the two properties and over the years after refurbishment cycles they brought the decor up to the higher standard.

The HOA at Harbour Lake is still legally named Horizons at Orlando and when I make my MF payment, it may still show that on our CC statement.


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## TravelTime (Jun 4, 2019)

dioxide45 said:


> It was nothing like the W brand. Horizons was the former brand on Willow Ridge Lodge in Branson, MO and Harbour Lake in Orlando. There was even a rumored Gatlinburg, TN property that never happened. It was aimed at young families and carried a lower price point. Furnishings and overall decor was a noticeable step below the Marriott brand. Think laminate countertops vs granite. The concept was a failure. Young families didn't have the money to fork out the still tens of thousands of dollars for a timeshare. Prices were not that far below the full Marriott brand pricing, perhaps 10-15%. Marriott then decided to rename the two properties and over the years after refurbishment cycles they brought the decor up to the higher standard.
> 
> The HOA at Harbour Lake is still legally named Horizons at Orlando and when I make my MF payment, it may still show that on our CC statement.



This exactly what I gathered from the 15-20 year old posts online.


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## bizaro86 (Jun 5, 2019)

The W brand is a what you get when you mix a high end nightclub with a high end hotel. I've stayed before, and they're nice, although I tend to find it a bit noisy. Now that I have kids I wouldn't consider a W for a family vacation.


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## Dean (Jun 5, 2019)

TravelTime said:


> I have never heard of the Horizon's project. I guess it failed quickly.
> 
> I am trying to google it and it sort of looks like it is an older version of MVC (perhaps pre-DPs) that included some of the current MVC resorts. It does not sound anything like the W brand or what I am thinking.
> 
> ...


As noted, it was aimed at a younger crowd, one that might not be able to afford the full enchilada.  IMO they over priced it and tried to do so at second tier or over built locations.  Harbour Lake and Willow Ridge are the resorts that were built.  Gatlinburg was absolutely announced, I've seen the plans and layout.  There was a fourth location, after some posts and talking to some older guides, I believe the 4th was Myrtle Beach but don't know if it was the same location as the current resort there.  The problem with a specialty brand is just that, a smaller audience.  The the Pulse might be another example if it was stand alone.


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## TravelTime (Jun 5, 2019)

If Horizons existed today, I think it would be part of Marriott's Select brand category. I was talking about launching an upscale/luxury MVC sub-brand, perhaps that appealed to the 30-55 crowd with or without families (older Millennials and Gen Xers). MVC timeshares are currently targeting what Mariott considers to be the Premium market. Horizons was an attempt to reach the lower end of the family demographic with a less expensive MVC group of resorts. I think MVC might do well to launch an upscale/luxury group for its vacation club. Other than a few Ritz Carlton clubs and some non-competitive Explorer offerings, MVC would need a lot more upscale 1-3 BR club suites, possibly at new properties other than the current MVC resorts, to make this work. I could see them adding more luxury suite inventory as well as converting some hotel rooms at the Ritz Carlton, St Regis and the W and other of their luxury brand hotels into 1,2 and 3 BR suites to create a new Upscale/Luxury vacation club. I suspect it could re-branded outside of the current Marriott Vacation Club with its own name and own rules and sit within the Luxury line of the brands below while keeping MVC in the premium category. This might help with the legal issues against Ritz Carlton and encourage more Ritz Calrtons and other luxury fractional type residence clubs to participate since I suspect this new luxury product would have an entry level membership fee well into the 6 figures for new members. Not sure if or how they would integrate resale purchasers or existing Presidential or Chairman's Club members. Whether they would use the existing points systems or a completely new system of "currency."

I was watching the Marriott Bonvoy TV station in Scrub Island. Some of the new informercials are really great and appear to target a more hip, trendy and younger target market (ie. 30-50ish). I think I am older than the target market but I loved the ads. I loved the ads so much that I video taped them on my iPhone. However, these ads are for the hotel side, where Marriott has many upscale/luxury products already. The ads are not doing exactly what my concept is but it was getting a bit closer.


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