# [UPDATE!] Some disturbing starwood resale news



## TUGBrian (Dec 15, 2010)

Just received notification that Starwood is now officially referring its owners wanting to sell their intervals on the resale market...to a very large upfront fee company.

details were provided as follows:



> The program is $1500.00 or 10% whichever is greater at closing or $449.00 flat fee up front.



although I suppose that since you have the option to pay at the end, thats better than the upfront fee!


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## billymach4 (Dec 15, 2010)

Sounds like they want to prop up prices using this front?


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## csudell (Dec 15, 2010)

I think they have 2 or 3 companies they refer to.  one being The Timeshare King, one being the one you are referring to and possibly another.


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## LisaRex (Dec 15, 2010)

...and Starwood is probably getting a kickback on the referrals, if they don't own the resale company outright.


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## jarta (Dec 15, 2010)

Is there a link that can be posted for any of this information?  Thanks.   ...   eom


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## VacationForever (Dec 15, 2010)

This answers why Starwood pulled the resale forms from their website. They used to have information in the owners association section regarding their resale department, and they would take 25% commission.


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## Westin5Star (Dec 16, 2010)

Merry Chirstmas from Starwood


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## jarta (Dec 16, 2010)

sptung,   ...   "This answers why Starwood pulled the resale forms from their website. They used to have information in the owners association section regarding their resale department, and they would take 25% commission."

If the resale forms have been removed from mystarcentral and nothing on mystarcentral replaces them, it seems clear that Starwood is pulling out of the brokerage business on timeshare resales.

There are lots of possible whys, but the most likely is that nobody was asking Starwood to broker the sale for 25% commission.  So, why not drop the resale brokerage program completely if it is not generating sufficient revenue?  Or, with the resale prices so low, maybe even 25% wouldn't even cover the costs?

I'd still like to see a link to anything where Starwood is "officially" steering resale sellers to other brokers.  Is there such a link?  Or, a published list of Starwood-approved resale brokers?  

Without a link on a Starwood web site, like mystarcentral, I don't think anything said during a telephone call by a Starwood employee in response to "well, who else can I use to sell my timeshare?" would be officially-sanctioned policy by Starwood.  Starwood very much runs everything "by the book" but I have found that everything in the Starwood book is published somewhere (even if in very small print).  lol!

Not saying broker recommendations have never been made.  They probably have been made.  Just challenging whether there is evidence Starwood is recommending specified brokers who charge an up-front fee for resales as its official corporate policy.  Other than the unattributed statement posted by the OP, I can find nothing on mystarcentral or elsewhere on the Internet (and I have looked) to back up the "official" nature of the charge.

However, I found this thread about resalesmart (a buyer and seller matching site which improbably still seems to be both "official" and active):  http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=109438

Trust, but verify.   ...   eom


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## Fredm (Dec 16, 2010)

To the best of my knowledge Starwood does not have an "approved broker" program, unless there has been a change in the past week or so that I have not heard about.

Starwood has, in the past, been very clear that it does not endorse any secondary market brokers.  

If Starwood has "officially" changed that policy, I would love to know about it.


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## csudell (Dec 16, 2010)

I dont know that they have an "official" list of brokers, but they gave me Russell's name and 2 other upfront fee companies.   While the others do charge upfront fees, Russell Kanner (The Timeshare King) does not.  I'm not trying to do a sales pitch for Russell but I can tell you that my experience with him was great.  He does not charge an upfront fee, he sold my timeshare within an hour.  I have talked to people at some of the upfront companies, like timesharesonly and sellmytimesharenow and the people were not pleasant to deal with at all.  Russell is a really nice guy.  His website is updated regularly but if you are looking for something in particular, sometimes he has something under the radar that he may have available.

When it came to the closing process, his went faster.  The title company told me because he had everything ready to go (estoppel letter,etc).  The title company was PCS Title and my contact was Dave Heine.  They also were amazing.  My check is already in the mail .

If anyone has any questions about Russell (Timeshare King) or Dave (PCS Closings), please pm me.

BTW... Dave's website has a calculator to calculate the fee on HRA closings. Its pretty cool.

  to Russell Kanner the Timeshare King and to Dave Heine at PCS Title


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## jarta (Dec 16, 2010)

So, there is no official Starwood position, TUGBrian got suckered into posting this "news" and the point of this thread is an ad for the brokers who charge the upfront fees for sellers in distress?   ...   eom


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## TUGBrian (Dec 16, 2010)

It was reported to me that a letter with this info was sent to all owners who have their property listed with Starwood.  As soon as I receive a copy of said letter, Ill be happy to post it assuming it doesn't contain some legal jargon preventing such.  As I'm not a Starwood owner, nor do I have a Starwood property listed with Starwood...it makes sense that I didn't get said letter personally.

I'm at a loss for your last comment jarta, seems more absurd than your usual abrasive blabbering...did I miss something?


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## jarta (Dec 16, 2010)

"did I miss something?"

Yeah, you missed seeing a copy of the letter before posting about this "disturbing" "official" position of Starwood.

However, owning the web site means you never have to apologize for jumping the gun.

I'm just the messenger and I did not attack you personally.  I accused your still unnamed source of suckering you into posting this "disturbing" "official" news.  Am I missing something?

Please post the letter sent to people who had their property listed with Starwood when you receive it.  I'm not the only one who would like to see it.  

But, consider this.  Who in their right mind would have their timeshare listed for sale through Starwood when Starwood charges 25% off the top?  Yikes!   ...   eom


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## TUGBrian (Dec 16, 2010)

If I didnt trust the source, I wouldnt have posted it.  my post was more directed at the end of your comment vs the beginning.



> and the point of this thread is an ad for the brokers who charge the upfront fees for sellers in distress?



This makes little to no sense whatsoever....and certainly seems to accuse me of working with upfront fee companies?  

I  hope for your sake I am reading this wrong... =)


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## jarta (Dec 16, 2010)

Look for the .   Did you post her?

Just remember to post the letter when you get it.   ...   eom


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## mstoyanov (Dec 16, 2010)

Jarta, sorry for going off-topic but if Starwood had set-up a resale process similar to what Royal Resorts do a LOT of people will use such resale service. 
Royal Resorts sell owner intervals for the same 25% fee but they resell the intervals at their normal (developer) prices. In fact why anyone try to sell his timeshare anywhere else if Starwood had similar process (and I don't have problem excluding from such service people who bough not from Starwood) - loosing only 25% from developer prices will be great service to people who bought from developer. 



jarta said:


> "did I miss something?"
> 
> But, consider this.  Who in their right mind would have their timeshare listed for sale through Starwood when Starwood charges 25% off the top?  Yikes!   ...   eom


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## YYJMSP (Dec 16, 2010)

mstoyanov said:


> Jarta, sorry for going off-topic but if Starwood had set-up a resale process similar to what Royal Resorts do a LOT of people will use such resale service.
> Royal Resorts sell owner intervals for the same 25% fee but they resell the intervals at their normal (developer) prices. In fact why anyone try to sell his timeshare anywhere else if Starwood had similar process (and I don't have problem excluding from such service people who bough not from Starwood) - loosing only 25% from developer prices will be great service to people who bought from developer.



If Starwood set up a service where you got 75% of the developer price for your unit, I don't see how anyone would even think about going anywhere else at all to resell units...


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## DeniseM (Dec 16, 2010)

I don't think Starwood wants to sale owner's units, when they are having a hard time selling their own inventory.


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## Fredm (Dec 16, 2010)

YYJMSP said:


> If Starwood set up a service where you got 75% of the developer price for your unit, I don't see how anyone would even think about going anywhere else at all to resell units...



Starwood was offering resales for the old Vistana group:

Sheraton's Vistana Resort
Vistana's Beach Club
Villas of Cave Creek
Sheraton Desert Oasis

using the resalesmart.com website.


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## TUGBrian (Dec 21, 2010)

Just recieved an email from another TUGGER who confirmed when he approached Starwood about selling his SBP interval, he was indeed referred to said upfront fee reseller (but also given one of the brokers listed above as a second alternative)


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## jarta (Dec 21, 2010)

"It was reported to me that a letter with this info was sent to all owners who have their property listed with Starwood. As soon as I receive a copy of said letter, Ill be happy to post it assuming it doesn't contain some legal jargon preventing such."

Is there a letter or is there a rumor spread by someone who has an agenda?  Even if some unnamed rogue person in the Starwood organization is making such recommendations, does that make it official?

And, if you are reselling your unit, why approach Starwood?  The Starwood resale program has been pulled from the web site.  So, who would there be to call about reselling?

Or, does that stuff not matter?   ...   eom


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## TUGBrian (Dec 21, 2010)

jarta said:


> "It was reported to me that a letter with this info was sent to all owners who have their property listed with Starwood. As soon as I receive a copy of said letter, Ill be happy to post it assuming it doesn't contain some legal jargon preventing such."
> 
> Is there a letter or is there a rumor spread by someone who has an agenda?  Even if some unnamed rogue person in the Starwood organization is making such recommendations, does that make it official?



so basically the theory you are hanging onto is that despite people who contact starwood about reselling their units being referred to a company that charges upfront fees for selling...because its not posted on the website its not official?

If that's the line people at Starwood are feeding owners, does it really matter if its official or not?   



> And, if you are reselling your unit, why approach Starwood?  The Starwood resale program has been pulled from the web site.  So, who would there be to call about reselling?
> 
> Or, does that stuff not matter?   ...   eom



Seriously, what planet do you live on?  Do you truly believe that the average joe who has absolutely zero knowledge of the timeshare resale industry wouldn't have his first call to inquire about getting rid of his timeshare be to the company he bought it from?  It happens every single day.

Im done arguing with you, as you appear to want to do nothing more than meander on with either pointless or clueless arguments.

If you have something valid or useful to say, feel free to do so.  Future nonsense will simply be deleted.


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## DeniseM (Dec 21, 2010)

jarta - Have you asked your contacts at Starwood about this? You have often posted about your Starwood golf buddies - why not ask them and get it directly from the source?  If you have inside info. - we'd love to hear it!


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## RoshiGuy (Dec 22, 2010)

*Suggestion*

Since there are differing opinions on the "official" Starwood policy, may I suggest that all those interested in clarifying this issue simply call Starwood inquiring about potentially reselling their TS. If this is indeed the official policy then it will soon be established, regardless of whether there is documentation to support the claim.


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## DeniseM (Dec 22, 2010)

I sent a message through MSC yesterday and just got this response - I believe this should end any further speculation about whether it's "true."  Feel free to try it yourself.  I simply used the message function and asked for broker recommendations.



> Dear DeniseM,
> 
> Thank you for contacting Westin Vacation Ownership.
> 
> ...


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## DeniseM (Dec 22, 2010)

In a different message, I asked about recommendations for giving away a different week, and got this response from a completely different Rep.:



> Dear DeniseM,
> 
> Thank you for contacting Sheraton Vacation Ownership. We welcome the opportunity to assist you today.
> 
> ...



*Based on these 2 responses from different Reps., I'd say that the evidence is conclusive that this is company policy, and not "Reps gone Rogue."*


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## DanCali (Dec 22, 2010)

Their BBB rating... (C+ as of 12/2010)


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## DeniseM (Dec 22, 2010)

Dan - You must be making that up!  Starwood would NEVER recommend a company with such a low rating!  Maybe it's BBB staff gone rogue?


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## jarta (Dec 22, 2010)

I am surprised that you do not recognize there is a big difference between sending an email *asking Owners Services for recommendations for resale brokers *(and receiving them in a returned email which contains lots of caveats that Starwood is not vouching for anyone) and saying "a letter with this info was sent to all owners who have their property listed with Starwood" and referring to the policy of sending out that unsolicited information as "official."

Starwood was not sending out official recommendations.  It was trying to be helpful by responding to the request you initiated for information about brokers.  No good turn goes unpunished.   ...   eom


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## DeniseM (Dec 22, 2010)

Really? - an email from Starwood isn't official enough for you?  You believe that they are making this recommendation via MSC, but you don't believe they will put it on paper?  It's not "official" if it's not on paper?????  

What are you going to say when Brian posts the letter?

My guess is that you pretend this thread never happened....


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## DanCali (Dec 22, 2010)

jarta said:


> It was trying to be helpful by responding to the request you initiated for information about brokers.  No good turn goes unpunished.   ...   eom



Would your opinion change if Starwood was paid by those brokers to provide their names as responses to these inquiries?

Of course we'll never know if they got paid for it, but it seems to me that they can do better than recommending a broker with a C+ BBB rating and that charges an upfront fee...


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## DeniseM (Dec 22, 2010)

> Starwood was not sending out official recommendations. It was trying to be helpful by responding to the request you initiated for information about brokers. No good turn goes unpunished.



So if I start recommending these companies to posters who ask for resale recommendations on TUG, are you going to commend me for my "good turn"?

I don't think so....


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## jarta (Dec 22, 2010)

DeniseM,   ...   I know you must feel great about Starwood makng a response to your specific request for broker names.

But, I do not think you have substantiated anything other than Starwood's Owner Services tries to help people who make specific requests.

And, the text of the emailed responses could not, IMO, be considered "official" policy of Starwood.  IMO, your latest communication with Starwood says more about you than it says about Starwood.  But, I have no doubt the Starwood email responses were sent by Starwood.

And, no, I was not commending Starwood for responding by giving you names.  I was just commending the concern shown by people who were trying to help someone who asked for help.  I would not make recommendations of resale brokers if I worked for Starwood - even if someone asked me for a few names to contact.   ...   eom


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## DeniseM (Dec 22, 2010)

jarta said:


> DeniseM,   ...   I know you must feel great about Starwood makng a response to your specific request for broker names.



Do I feel great about it? No - after all I own 3 Starwood timeshares.

Am I glad to have evidence of the truth - yes

However, it just substantiates what many of us have suspected about Starwood's business practices and ethics for a long time....

It will be very interesting to see if Starwood provides my info. to one of these companies now that Starwood knows I'm looking.

What do your contacts have to say about it?


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## jarta (Dec 22, 2010)

DenieM,   ...   The truth?  IMO, hardly.

Have a nice Holiday season.   ...   eom


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## ondeadlin (Dec 22, 2010)

You can lead a horse to water ... eom.


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## DavidnRobin (Dec 22, 2010)

DanCali said:


> Their BBB rating... (C+ as of 12/2010)





DeniseM said:


> Dan - You must be making that up!  Starwood would NEVER recommend a company with such a low rating!  Maybe it's BBB staff gone rogue?



I do not think a TS resale company would ever have a sterling BBB rating because of the nature of TSs, and the general lack of TS Owner knowledge (and expectations).

Of course - I could be wrong... but it doesn't surprise me.  Is there a TS resale organization with a good BBB rating?  Maybe C+ is stellar in the TS world...

It does not surprise me that there is a SVO position on relaying TS reseller info to Owners looking to sell their timeshares - it would also not surprise me that there are certain SVO TSs that SVO would have a resale program in place (one they can make money on) that goes beyond a ROFR.

Again - maybe that is just me.

However, didn't Brians' post state that he had contact on an active resale program initiated by SVO?  Was this for all resorts - or just selected resorts (as mentioned above...)?  If so... it appears that DenisesM's contact would contradict this (unless it was for selected resorts)

or have I misunderstood this?


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## DeniseM (Dec 22, 2010)

Dave - just as an example, FredM's BBB rating is A+ and yes, there are others with sterling ratings.  (I look them up all the time in researching companies for posters.)

Brian's original posts said that Starwood sent out letters saying they are canceling their resale program, and recommending the two companies posted above - IN THE LETTER.  The letters were sent to SW owners who were enrolled in Starwood's resale program.

I talked to Brian personally about it, and he has a very reliable source who actually received the letter personally, and contacted Brian about it.


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## DavidnRobin (Dec 22, 2010)

DeniseM said:


> Dave - just as an example, FredM's BBB rating is A+ and yes, there are others with sterling ratings.  (I look them up all the time in researching companies for posters.)
> 
> Brian's original posts said that Starwood sent out letters saying they are canceling their resale program, and recommending the two companies posted above - IN THE LETTER.  The letters were sent to SW owners who were enrolled in Starwood's resale program.



Thanks - I guess I read it wrong.  When I meant TS resellers - I meant those typical sort-of slimy TS resellers - I wasn't thinking of FredM as part of them. But I guess Fred could call himself 'The Timeshare General'


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## James1975NY (Jan 18, 2011)

Its not really that crazy that the resalesmart charged 25%. the increased commission is due to low pricing. Very common to have a 30% commission on the secondary market. Just depends on the product and what it would command on resale.

I am very shocked that SVO is offering options for owners to explore if they want to sell their timeshare.


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