# Glad we own at WKORV and not at Marriott



## skim118 (Jul 5, 2006)

This year is the fourth in a row where we got the summer week we wanted(July 4th weekend in 2007).  We did call at 5AM and had to wait for 5 min on hold & at 5:15AM we received the email confirmation.

Our friends who own at the Marriott Ocean Club failed to get the July 4th week once again(they have been successful only 2/4 years).  They are very frustrated, but they are succumbing to Marriotts'  "upgrade" path to the fixed weeks at the new tower for even more money.

I am glad Starwood is still maintaining equitable reservation policies geared towards owners(no 13-month loopholes, depositing holiday weeks for trading purposes,..).


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## califgal (Jul 5, 2006)

Good to hear!  I called to make reservation about 11 months out for next years spring break and got the week!  We have considered buying Marriotts Newport Coast Villas as a resale, but  I've been reading it's so difficult to get a reservation in the summer, that we decided we rather buy another EOY at Westin Maui. So we're still looking for a good deal for that!


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## Bill4728 (Jul 5, 2006)

I just can't believe that both the Marriott and Starwood have their Pacific coast and Hawaii resorts reservations on east coast time. Why should someone on the west coast have to get up at 5 am so they can reserve their west coast TS?? 

It would may more sense to have the east coast TS reservation open at 8am eastern then open reservations for the west coast TS at 8 am pacific time.


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## oneohana (Jul 5, 2006)

If you thought that 5AM was bad, try making reservations at 2 or 3AM if you were in Hawaii:zzz: .


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## LauraS93 (Jul 8, 2006)

Every day, I thank my lucky stars that we fell into a Westin/Starwood purchase.  Although as a hotel chain, the Marriott treats us better...


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## taffy19 (Jul 8, 2006)

If the Westin can do it, why can't the Marriott?  They will have to resolve this problem ASAP or they will start losing customers.  How many people are willing and able to keep buying more weeks in order to reserve earlier?  

The one single week owner doesn't have a chance ever to get a highly demanded week and he may have bought a long time ago before this new reservation policy came into being.   

Why does it take so long to set up their new internal system?


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## short (Jul 8, 2006)

iconnections said:
			
		

> If the Westin can do it, why can't the Marriott?  They will have to resolve this problem ASAP or they will start losing customers.  How many people are willing and able to keep buying more weeks in order to reserve earlier?
> 
> The one single week owner doesn't have a chance ever to get a highly demanded week and he may have bought a long time ago before this new reservation policy came into being.
> 
> Why does it take so long to set up their new internal system?



Because Starwood has taken control of inventory.  They bulk spacebank weeks into II which are lower demand and save high demand weeks for owners use.

Based on a recent thread about Marriott changing how owner rental rates are handled, I would speculate that when Marriott goes to internal exchange system they will establish a Club like Starwood and Hilton to gain control of what deposits are made to II.

This will eleviate some of the reservation problems but owners who previously reserved top weeks to deposit to II will be screaming like mad.

Short


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## taffy19 (Jul 8, 2006)

That means they will upset their best customers and how are they going to resolve that problem?  It was an incentive to sell more weeks to the customers they had and now it will back fire.  Never a dull moment with timesharing and this industry.


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## tsl (Jul 8, 2006)

*Not always perfect..............*

While I love our resorts, Starwood is far from perfect.  We own a fixed week late July at Harborside.  I have called every week in June and July to see if I can book an earlier week.  There have been no weeks available.  I cannot get on a waitlist unless I cancel my July fixed week which they have advised me not to do b/c there may not be any June or July weeks available.  So my only alternative is to keep calling every week to see if something earlier is available.

I have tried to figure out how many weeks Harborside sold as fixed but no one can give me that info.  Starwood holds the fixed weeks until 10 months out and then releases them into inventory if the owner has not confirmed.  That gives the owners in that season two months b/f these weeks become available to StarOptions.

All I can say is that I am VERY thankful for my fixed week b/c I don't know if it is possible to float in June/July at Harborside.


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## daventrina (Jul 8, 2006)

iconnections said:
			
		

> The one single week owner doesn't have a chance ever to get a highly demanded week a...


The most units that can be available for reservations more than 12 months out are 50%. So, once it reaches that level it can't get worse for single week owners (at least as far as the rules go). However, last year at Tahoe 95 of the 115 available weeks were given out 13 months in advance


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## Tika (Jul 9, 2006)

It is interesting how people cannot book the week they want sometime.  I have a 2 bedroom week at Marriott (Maui).  I do not particularly like the 4th of July week because of the crowd, but this year just out of curiosity, I went to the MVC website to see if I could reserve a week for that week on 2007.  I went to website site on the first day reservation for that week was allowed (12 months in advance, not 13) at appx. 4:00 pm Pacific Time.  The Saturday check ins were gone, but both Friday and Sunday check ins were both available.  Considering that I checked kind of late in theday and that from my understanding all two bedrooms are sold out at MOC (but not the one bedroom units), I cannot understand why other people are having that much problem booking their weeks.


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## KOR5Star (Jul 9, 2006)

skim118 said:
			
		

> Our friends who own at the Marriott Ocean Club failed to get the July 4th week once again(they have been successful only 2/4 years).  They are very frustrated, but they are succumbing to Marriotts'  "upgrade" path to the fixed weeks at the new tower for even more money.


As someone who has stayed in both, the WKORV is also the better resort.  I wouldn't recommend the existing Marriott structure to anyone.  The place was clearly a converted hotel.  The resulting space doesn't lend itself to being a condo at all.  The kitchen is inadequate even for breakfast... which is the only reason we ever use a kitchen... other than making popcorn and storing drinks in the refridge.  There's no washer/drier!  What's up with that!?  IMHO, not having laundry capabilities in a top named hotel based timeshare is unforgiveable.  The atrium and open hallways to the rooms are stark.  It feels like a municiple building.

The new towers may be better, but all the good ocean facing rooms are being sold as full shares, not weekly.  The only rooms available are on the sides.  The more expensive rooms are higher, but they're all facing the same way... parallel to the ocean or island view... nothing directly facing the ocean is available on a weekly or monthly basis.


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## JillChang (Jul 9, 2006)

I am thankful for this post.  I bought Sheraton Vistana Village and was thinking of adding Marriott, but now I've changed my mind seeing how difficult Marriott reservation can be.

For the Starwood system, will I have a problem making reservation using staroptions at harbourside or St. John?  or Westin in Hawaii?   How about for shoulder season?


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## DeniseM (Jul 9, 2006)

JillChang said:
			
		

> I am thankful for this post.  I bought Sheraton Vistana Village and was thinking of adding Marriott, but now I've changed my mind seeing how difficult Marriott reservation can be.
> 
> For the Starwood system, will I have a problem making reservation using staroptions at harbourside or St. John?  or Westin in Hawaii?   How about for shoulder season?



Jill - I think WSJ is probably the hardest exchange of the three.  I have been trying to make a Resv. for next Mar. (8 mos. out) for the last 10 days, calling every day, and there is absolutely nothing available in any size unit and the waiting lists are full with owners who called at 12 mos. out.  I have also been attempting to make an online Resv. at mystarcentral every day as a back-up.  

Harborside has also been completely booked up for the same time frame.  

And the other thing is, that you have to keep putting in the online Resv. every day, because once they respond that nothing is available, your request doesn't stay in the system.  But based on previous posts here, I think Maui might be a little easier.  

I think it is possible to get an 8 Mo. Resv. at one of the big 3, but you have to be flexible and persistent!   It is really a pain in the butt to get up and call at 5 am too! :zzz:


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## JillChang (Jul 9, 2006)

DeniseM said:
			
		

> Jill - I think WSJ is probably the hardest exchange of the three.  I have been trying to make a Resv. for next Mar. (8 mos. out) for the last 10 days, calling every day, and there is absolutely nothing available in any size unit and the waiting lists are full with owners who called at 12 mos. out.  I have also been attempting to make an online Resv. at mystarcentral every day as a back-up.  Harborside has also be completely booked up, with no luck.  And the other thing is, that you have to keep putting in the online Resv. every day, because once they respond that nothing is available, your request doesn't stay in the system.  But based on previous posts here, I think Maui might be a little easier.
> 
> I think it is possible to get an 8 Mo. Resv. at one of the big 3, but you have to be flexible and persistent!   It is really a pain in the butt to get up and call at 5 am too! :zzz:


What about Summer or Fall in WSJ or Harbourside?  Is it also this difficult?


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## DeniseM (Jul 9, 2006)

JillChang said:
			
		

> What about Summer or Fall in WSJ or Harbourside?  Is it also this difficult?



I think fall would be easier, summer is not going to be easy, because summer is vacation time for many families when the kids are out of school.  But, I don't think it will every be "easy" to get an 8 Mo. Resv. at WSJ or Harborside.


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## Loriannf (Jul 9, 2006)

WSJ is adding some 2 bedroom units which may ease availability; but I wouldn't count on it past the first year they are finished.  Once they're sold, and the development is sold out, it will be a tough trade.

On the other hand, there's always the possibility of a direct exchange with another Starwood owner, if you have something comparable.  Although, personally, I don't know what would be comparable to my WSJ three bed - a Harborside three bed maybe?  I know the points aren't equal, but the Harborside doesn't have a private pool either.

Lori


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## tsl (Jul 9, 2006)

JillChang said:
			
		

> I am thankful for this post.  I bought Sheraton Vistana Village and was thinking of adding Marriott, but now I've changed my mind seeing how difficult Marriott reservation can be.
> 
> For the Starwood system, will I have a problem making reservation using staroptions at harbourside or St. John?  or Westin in Hawaii?   How about for shoulder season?




I perosnally have never had a problem with  Marriott reservation esp. if I call 12 to 11 months out.  

As for Harborside, we purchased summer b/c we were told it would be extremely difficult to get in during June or July b/c over 90% of all owners return.  I wouldn't count on Harborside for the summer using Star Options unless there is still some developer inventory from Phase II.


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## DeniseM (Jul 9, 2006)

Loriannf said:
			
		

> On the other hand, there's always the possibility of a direct exchange with another Starwood owner, if you have something comparable.  Although, personally, I don't know what would be comparable to my WSJ three bed - a Harborside three bed maybe?  I know the points aren't equal, but the Harborside doesn't have a private pool either.
> 
> Lori



Hi Lori - We tried for months to get a private exchange for WSJ for our 2 bdm. WKORV week and didn't even get a nibble.  As far as I know, no one on the private exchange board has been able to make this trade.  It's a  tough exchange!


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## JillChang (Jul 9, 2006)

It looks like the only way to ensure a week at WSJ and Harbourside during prime time is to own there.


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## Loriannf (Jul 9, 2006)

Denise:

I think the private exchange problem is very similar to a problem Starwood faces overall:  we live in the Midwest, a LONG flight to Hawaii.  It's much easier for us to get to St John, especially with a young child.  I've found that most people who own/go to Hawaii are West Coasters, and most who own/go to Harborside/St John are Midwesterners and those from the East.  I know that we wouldn't even be interested in Hawaii for about another 8-10 years, so we have no interest in exchanging there.  

We are interested, however, in the new Starwood properties in Mexico, and maybe Aruba - although it will be hard to pry us away from St John.  We had considered trading for a week in Orlando, but its much cheaper to rent what you want in Orlando than pursue a trade.  For example, we've seen 2 bedroom Vistanas (newer sections) advertised for about $600/week.  $600 won't even buy a night in St John in our season, so it would make no sense for us to trade.

Unless the private exchange board can offer incentives for Hawaii exchanges, I don't think you'll find too many takers.  It would make no sense for us to exchange our 3 bed/pool villa in St John for a 2 bed IV in Hawaii.  We've been to Hawaii and we just don't think they compare, even if the Hawaii week were a more "prime" week.  I think that's also a problem for Harborside.  They have some of the highest option requirements, but offer less.  The Harborsides are also lockoffs, which makes it nearly impossible to get a 3 bedroom.  

JMHO as a WSJ owner.

Lori


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## KOR5Star (Jul 9, 2006)

We must have been very lucky.  We got an exchange into WSJ for President's week on our first try... that was Feb 2005.  

After finding out the condo was across the street and up the hill (they all are) and the hotel rooms facing the pool went for only 10K starpoints (at that time), we opt'ed to give up the condo and do the hotel.  We had a good time, but missed surfing and whales a lot!

I'm told elite status has no bearing on trade priority, so I think it's just a matter of being one of the first callers when the window opens.


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## ZCar (Jul 9, 2006)

KOR5Star, you wrote
"As someone who has stayed in both, the WKORV is also the better resort. I wouldn't recommend the existing Marriott structure to anyone. The place was clearly a converted hotel. The resulting space doesn't lend itself to being a condo at all. The kitchen is inadequate even for breakfast... which is the only reason we ever use a kitchen... other than making popcorn and storing drinks in the refridge. There's no washer/drier! What's up with that!? IMHO, not having laundry capabilities in a top named hotel based timeshare is unforgiveable. The atrium and open hallways to the rooms are stark. It feels like a municiple building.

The new towers may be better, but all the good ocean facing rooms are being sold as full shares, not weekly. The only rooms available are on the sides. The more expensive rooms are higher, but they're all facing the same way... parallel to the ocean or island view... nothing directly facing the ocean is available on a weekly or monthly basis".

What you say in the first paragraph is legitimate for YOU.
It is a converted hotel. Obvious. 
We don't use full kitchen facilities at all, so limited kitchens are great for us. There are washer/dryer facilities ... not in the Villa, though. One just has to pay to use them. Probably could not be installed in a Villa ... due to design of hotel.

The new Marriott towers will probably exceed the Westin (one-upsmanship) and I don't understand your take on them as follows:

"Sold as Full Shares, not weekly"? What are "Full Shares"?
The first available Ocean View Villas, 2 and 3 br. are sold as Fixed WEEKS,
Fixed Villas on certain floors. Higher floors are higher priced ...duh.
Others are Floating WEEKS, Ocean View or Garden/Mountain View.

"The only rooms available are on the sides"? "Rooms"?
The Villas on the sides are 2 br. and sold as Floating Weeks.

Then you say:
"The more expensive rooms are higher, but they're all facing the same way... parallel to the ocean or island view... nothing directly facing the ocean is available on a weekly or monthly basis".

I don't understand this comment at all. Have you seen the plans?
Parallel to the ocean IS direct ocean view.
Monthly basis? Explain that.
Where did your info come from?

Now back to the original question:
I really think any system has it's problems. I also think a lot are perceived problems. We simply haven't had the problems reserving that some claim to have had. 

JillChang: I think your not buying Marriott due to "seeing how difficult it is in seeing how difficult Marriott reservation can be" is a percieved problem that may not exist for you. It could, but at this point, you wouldn't know. It's based on a few inputs in this very limited forum. And now, you have a few inputs from Westin owners that they can have problems also. 
With either system, call early and fast and you too can have your reservation.


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## skim118 (Jul 10, 2006)

ZCar said:
			
		

> Now back to the original question:
> I really think any system has it's problems. I also think a lot are perceived problems. We simply haven't had the problems reserving that some claim to have had.
> .



I have no idea what you mean by "perceived problems", because our friends were unable to join us in Maui for next July 4th inspite of calling on subsequent days also(2-bed OV) and this happened to them twice in the last 4 years.

I can also see that you do not have the same problems because you state  in the Marriott forum that you mostly travel during off-season.


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## JillChang (Jul 10, 2006)

Zcar,

This isn't the first thread I've read about the difficulties Marriott owners have reserving demand holiday week.  If you read Marriot forum, there are plenty of people complaining not getting July 4 week even thought they call as soon as the phone is opened.

I have always known the difficulties in Westin St. John because it was mentioned as one of the hardest resort to exchange into.  I like the Starwood system for the quality of its resorts and I am willing to go to WSJ on an off season and in a smaller unit since I don't want to pay what it costs to own in WSJ at this moment.  But other than WSJ and Harbourside, I don't "perceive" a reservation problem into the other resorts, at least, I haven't read about it yet on TUG.


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## mepiccolo (Jul 10, 2006)

My 2 cents:  we were seriously considering buying an ocean front 1 bdrm resale at Marriott Maui Ocean Club.  What sealed the deal for us not buying Marriott was the 13 week reservation advantage for multiple week owners at Marriott.  Since we already own and are completely happy with our WKORV unit and knew we would only be one week owners at Marriott we didn't want to drop a lot of $$ to be treated like redheaded stepchildren at Marriott.   I think that policy will keep a lot of people who already own several weeks happy but it is certainly a policy that will keep a lot of prospective buyers out.  You can say that only 50% of the inventory goes at 13 weeks to the multiple week owners but the reality is you see the one week owners complaining....alot.  Funny thing is the multiple week owners keep insisting it's not a problem because it isn't...for them.


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## ZCar (Jul 10, 2006)

Skim:
By percieved, I probably mean those that just hear about reservation problems and won't even try. "It's just to difficult".
Marriott is a first come-first served system and a lot of owners are trying for that prime week. Only one owner per available Villa is going to get it.
Slow computer, a few minutes late on the phone? Someone else got it.
Probably similar with other systems for prime times. You got July 4 and you're happy, the system worked for you, but I'll bet there's an owner out there that didn't and is unhappy. Everyone can't have that week.
Your comment about us doing Hawaii (or anywhere else, for that matter) off-season is correct, but we have done New Years, Sping Breaks, many Thanksgivings, etc., with no problems.
I'm certain that one day, it will happen and we won't get precisely what we want. Will I be unhappy? A little, but that's how the system works.

Mepicclo:
About the 13 month reservations: Perhaps you didn't understand all the restrictions. Basically, one must own at two resorts (or more ... and some say at the same resort) and they must have seasons (or colors) that overlap or touch and make concurrent or consecutive week reservations within those seasons (or colors). One cannot make reservations at a resort they don't own. That lets a lot of multiple week owners out, since they can't meet basic criteria. 
ie: We own a white season (shoulder) in Desert Springs and when I want to tie Hawaii to DS, I must do it within the White Season, which does cover Thanksgiving. Hawaii is Platinum all year, except I can't reserve Platinum Plus weeks. So the 13 month reservation is not usable by everyone with multiple weeks.
Not being that familiar with Westin (Starwood) system, I think I read that there is a 10 or 11 month preference for those that are at a different level? (SVO?) (And others can try at 8 months out?). Just call it all perks.
Maybe you can clarify or we'll take the Westin tour on Maui in October.
(We did do a Sheraton presentation in Phoenix/Scottsdale, but a little knowledge is dangerous).

Jill:
A lot of Marriott's are easy trades, probably especially easy with a Hawaii unit to give up. We don't exchange Hawaii, although we have exchanged amongst Maui, Ko'Olina and Kauai.
Remember, in the Marriott System for exchanges, an owner must make a reservation, then place it with Interval International. If few owners in, lets say Maui, don't exchange, there's little chance of getting in using that method. It's that "buy where you want to go" thing.
A few owners make reservations in prime time, then rent it for many $$$$ above maintenance fees. That's an irritant to some too.
If one owns a Blue summer week in Palm Desert, don't realisticly think about exchanging into Hawaii. It can be done, though.
There's also a lot of Marriott's we have no interest in visiting. Hilton Head being one area, although it's exceptionally popular with others. We just didn't care for it.
They're only systems and one just has to try to work them to their advantage.
So we don't find the Marriott reservations all that difficult. Up at 6am, yes ... but DeniseM is up at 5am. (Sorry Denise).


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## DeniseM (Jul 10, 2006)

ZCar said:
			
		

> .Not being that familiar with Westin (Starwood) system, I think I read that there is a 10 or 11 month preference for those that are at a different level? (SVO?) (And others can try at 8 months out?). Just call it all perks.
> Maybe you can clarify or we'll take the Westin tour on Maui in October.
> (We did do a Sheraton presentation in Phoenix/Scottsdale, but a little knowledge is dangerous).



That's not correct.  With Starwood, multiple week owners have NO advantage when it comes to making a Resv.  All SVN owners can make a Resv. at their home resort at 12 mos. and at other SVN resorts at 8 mos.  

:zzz: Yeah...5:00 am....


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## ZCar (Jul 10, 2006)

Thanks Denise,
See, a little bit of info, or more correctly a little bit of mis-info ... can be dangerous. Think we might just do the Westin Presentation in October.
We won't buy, as we won't be buying anymore of any brand. 
But (as you also, I think) will continue to enjoy the Hawaiian Islands.


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## DeniseM (Jul 10, 2006)

ZCar said:
			
		

> Thanks Denise,
> See, a little bit of info, or more correctly a little bit of mis-info ... can be dangerous. Think we might just do the Westin Presentation in October.
> We won't buy, as we won't be buying anymore of any brand.
> But (as you also, I think) will continue to enjoy the Hawaiian Islands.



You're welcome - yes, we will always go back to Hawaii!  But, I could be tempted to by another Starwood week - resale, but not right now.  We don't have enough vacation time to use what we already have....but someday!


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## JillChang (Jul 10, 2006)

ZCar said:
			
		

> Jill:
> A lot of Marriott's are easy trades, probably especially easy with a Hawaii unit to give up. We don't exchange Hawaii, although we have exchanged amongst Maui, Ko'Olina and Kauai.
> Remember, in the Marriott System for exchanges, an owner must make a reservation, then place it with Interval International. If few owners in, lets say Maui, don't exchange, there's little chance of getting in using that method. It's that "buy where you want to go" thing.
> A few owners make reservations in prime time, then rent it for many $$$$ above maintenance fees. That's an irritant to some too.
> ...


Zcar,

You are basically saying the same thing I am.  In order to get top demand Marriott resort and week, you must own it.  Like you, and probably 90% of Marriott owners, there are only a few Marriott properties that I like.  I am just saying that if it looks like Starwood (with its top notch resorts) is less complicated to reserve and cost pretty much the same as Marriott's top resorts (resale), then perhaps Starwood is a better choice.  I am just taking it a step further and say that if I only wanted WKORV or WSJ, then that is where I should buy and own to ensure a week I want without the hassle.

Some people have great luck getting a good trade with their blue or white week, I just don't like the hassle and don't like to depend on an exchange company.


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## ZCar (Jul 10, 2006)

Denise,
I think (again) that there are "Mandatory Resorts" and those that are not in the Starwood system. Does this have an effect on reservations or exchanges?
Or exactly what is it?
Some things seem very similar, but under different names.
It's always interesting to try to sort out differences in competitive systems.

Added to Jill:
I can readily agree of having not to depend on an exchange company. So the rumor goes, Marriott will "someday" have an internal system, but still, one must give up a week for someone else to exchange into. And that brings us right back to "buy where you want to go" ... and that can be a lot of money (even resale). 
Obviously, it's Hawaii for us. And we're quite happy with Marriott's "Top Notch Resorts".


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## DeniseM (Jul 10, 2006)

If a resort is "mandatory" it means you can buy a resale and still exchange within the SVN.  There are 5 mandatory resorts:

Maui
St. John
Harborside
Vistana Villages
Kierland

If it isn't mandatory, you still have all the rights of ownership at your home resort, but you can't exchange within the SVN if you buy resale.


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## ZCar (Jul 10, 2006)

Thanks again,
How does a "non-mandatory resale" get into one of the "mandatory resorts"?
If I were buying, it would be at one of the five. 

Marriott's only thing with a resale purchase is that one's week can't be turned in for Reward Points. Some think of those points as useless anyway, but we have had some very nice vacations using them. Points, generally, are for Hotel stays and airline FF tickets. (Some available choices are not good use).


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## DeniseM (Jul 10, 2006)

The owner of a mandatory resale week uses the same reservation system/process as the owner of a week purchased through the developer and has the same exchange rights:  at 8 mos. out, at 8 a.m. ET, you get on the phone and call Owner Reservations.  

That's why I'm on the phone at 5 a.m. in CA! 

Just like Marriott, you can't convert to points with a resale, but I never would anyway.  The points I would get for my Maui 2 bdm. lock-off would only get me a standard room for 7 or 8 nights at the Westin Maui or Sheraton Maui - Not a great deal, when we can split our lock-off and stay 2 weeks in the TS!


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## DeniseM (Jul 10, 2006)

ZCar said:
			
		

> If I were buying, it would be at one of the five.



I would too, but the problem is that a lot of people buy a lower cost resale, thinking they can exchange into Maui, St. John, or Harborside every year, and then they are disppointed when they can't get the week they want.  There are 12 different SVN resorts - we can't all go to Maui, St. John, or Harborside every year.  So, even on a resale, you need to buy where you want to go!


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## DavidnRobin (Jul 10, 2006)

DeniseM said:
			
		

> I would too, but the problem is that a lot of people buy a lower cost resale, thinking they can exchange into Maui, St. John, or Harborside every year, and then they are disppointed when they can't get the week they want.  There are 12 different SVN resorts - we can't all go to Maui, St. John, or Harborside every year.  So, even on a resale, you need to buy where you want to go!



Denise -

I have a freind interested in doing one of those SVO/SVN vacation packages with the timeshare presentation.  How does one find out about them? They want to stay at WKORV.

- David


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## grgs (Jul 10, 2006)

The one big difference that I've read on these boards between Marriott & Starwood is the abililty of owners to reserve where they own at 12 mos. out.  For Marriott owners, it seems to be a problem to reserve some resorts for very popular weeks.  I have never heard of a Starwood owner not being able to reserve a week at the resort they own at 12 mos. out.  We do hear about Starwood owners not being able to exchange within SVN at 8 mos. out, but to me that's an entirely different issue.  

Glorian


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## DeniseM (Jul 10, 2006)

blujahz said:
			
		

> Denise -
> 
> I have a freind interested in doing one of those SVO/SVN vacation packages with the timeshare presentation.  How does one find out about them? They want to stay at WKORV.
> 
> - David



David - I will email you.


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## ZCar (Jul 10, 2006)

grgs,
There's a Harborside Thread just below this one. It appears as if the person was trying to make a reservation this morning.and so far, is unsuccessful.
Edit: OK, looks like 8 months out. But i'd still gamble that there are a few unhappy people that don't get what they want in Maui or other demand weeks 12 months out. 
Lets assume there are 200 Villas available at Westin Maui Week July 4.
Surely, more than 200 people call-in to reserve that week ... and it's not taking into account breaking it up into people reserving the view/sixe/ they purchased. 

Denise,
We do the lockouts for two weeks also. (Except Kauai 1 br., which we consider too small and it has a 'special' lockout consideration we don't care for). Sometimes try to exchange it for a Waiohai 2 br. if we think someone will come with us. Some success.
Thanks for your answers.


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## DeniseM (Jul 10, 2006)

Honest, ZCar, I have never seen an owner post on TUG that they called at 12 mos. and couldn't get the week they wanted at their home resort.  It may have happened, but I don't think it's the norm.


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## ZCar (Jul 10, 2006)

Denise,
You seem to give pretty straight answers. 
And we all have our biases ... 
It's that "My Ford is better than your Chevy" thing. And so it will always be.

Just enjoy your time on Maui! 
(Hey, there's people that DON'T enjoy Maui. Too windy).


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## DeniseM (Jul 10, 2006)

Oh, I don't think that SW is better than Marriott - I just stumbled on SW first and I was just providing info.  I would LOVE to own at the Marriott in Tahoe!

We will enjoy Maui and the breezes that keep it cool!


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## daventrina (Jul 10, 2006)

*People and times*

Some people go to the islands in the winter to warm up.
Some people go to the islands in the summer to cool off.

We're looking forward to getting cooled off next week too
Still like October though - Especially the airfare


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## ZCar (Jul 10, 2006)

DnT,
Some people just go to the Islands. No reason, just go.
I'll think of you in October.
(I'd do one of those funny characters, but seem to not know how to make it work)
Enjoy your vacation too.


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## daventrina (Jul 10, 2006)

ZCar said:
			
		

> DnT,
> No reason, just go.


That's a better reason. If we really wanted to cool we should go dive in Monterey:hysterical:


			
				ZCar said:
			
		

> DnT,
> (I'd do one of those funny characters, but seem to not know how to make it work)
> Enjoy your vacation too.


Thanks!!!

You have to type the code in unless your using something other than the basic editor (There is a setting somewhere in the preferences).


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## KOR5Star (Jul 11, 2006)

ZCar said:
			
		

> It is a converted hotel. Obvious.  We don't use full kitchen facilities at all, so limited kitchens are great for us. There are washer/dryer facilities ... not in the Villa, though. One just has to pay to use them. Probably could not be installed in a Villa ... due to design of hotel.


Thanks for re-affirming my points regarding how the property layout is inadequate for being turned into timeshare use.  The kitchen is not even adequate for breakfast.  Again, the lack of in-room laundry machines is unforgiveable.  You schlep your laundry and hope there are machines available.  Not to mention all the time lost.  I think most high end timeshare owners find this unacceptable.  



			
				ZCar said:
			
		

> "Sold as Full Shares, not weekly"? What are "Full Shares"?


I was there pre-construction in February.  At that time, the ocean front sides of both buildings were reserved for people who wanted the whole condo... all year, every year ownership.  Marriott would not consider quarter shares (13 weeks) at that time.  If things have changed, that's a step in the right direction.  I felt the whole building should be timeshare or they create a two class system.



			
				ZCar said:
			
		

> Higher floors are higher priced ...duh.


Few understand the ramifications of this.  The owners lose when the property does this.  It creates more catagories of rooms than necessary, thereby limiting available inventory for the owners.  At the Westin, all Ocean View rooms are created equal and everyone has the same shot at getting whatever location they want most.  First come, first serve.  
Marriott is maximizing profits, but screwing their future owners by doing this.  



			
				ZCar said:
			
		

> Then you say: "The more expensive rooms are higher, but they're all facing the same way... parallel to the ocean or island view... nothing directly facing the ocean is available on a weekly or monthly basis".
> I don't understand this comment at all. Have you seen the plans?
> Parallel to the ocean IS direct ocean view.


Bad wording.  I meant to underscore the point that there are no ocean front units available for timeshare owners.  Marriott is   creating a two class system within their buildings.  Westin also sells condos, but does so at properties specifically meant for that.
Yes, I've seen the plans.  I've seen the mock ups.  I've seen the scale model with the lights showing the different catagory of rooms, etc...


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## KOR5Star (Jul 11, 2006)

ZCar said:
			
		

> But i'd still gamble that there are a few unhappy people that don't get what they want in Maui or other demand weeks 12 months out.
> Lets assume there are 200 Villas available at Westin Maui Week July 4.
> Surely, more than 200 people call-in to reserve that week ... and it's not taking into account breaking it up into people reserving the view/sixe/ they purchased.


Just reserved WKORV for the week of July 4th 2007, Saturday to Saturday on June 30th.  Just out of curiosity, I called back at noon asking when they sold out.  Inventory lasted to just after 11AM that day.  

For those on the West Coast that didn't bother waking up at 5AM, yeah, they're bummed.  For the rest of us, no problem.


----------



## ZCar (Jul 11, 2006)

KOR5Star,
Obviously, you didn't get either full or correct information or are applying your interpretation.

I'll dismiss your first comments, as we would disagree as to what either of us see as OK. Though, can you imagine the cost and complexity of putting in a washer/dryer in each villa in a hotel conversion, a building not designed with that kind of plumbing? 
And hey, we really like our ocean front 2 bedroom. We don;t cook in, so the mini-kitchen is no concern and I'm not certain how laundry can be that big a deal. Ok, so there's usually only the two of us, but there have been four. 

Next ...

"At that time, the ocean front sides of both buildings were reserved for people who wanted the whole condo... all year, every year ownership. Marriott would not consider quarter shares (13 weeks) at that time. If things have changed, that's a step in the right direction. I felt the whole building should be timeshare or they create a two class system"
.
It is a FULL timeshare building. I don't understand your point.
They are 2 Bedroom Villas or 3 Bedroom Villas. One must buy "the full condo", but only by weeks.
Marriott is a Weeks system, with certain Weeks Fixed in a specific condo. Many timeshares do this. Other weeks are Floating. I would not want to own a Fixed week, though, but others prefer them.
Why is it a two class system?
The 13 week purchases are for Marriott Grand Residences. Only 3 or 4 of those.

My quote "Higher floors are higher priced ...duh".
Your answer: "Few understand the ramifications of this. The owners lose when the property does this. ... " I think you are searching for a problem that doesn't exist.

We paid more for the Penthouse at Ko'Olina and very glad we did.
Marketing for profit or not, it's a good way for those that always want a certain level of view to guarantee it. Gee, two classes of ownership.

"Bad wording. I meant to underscore the point that there are no ocean front units available for timeshare owners. Marriott is creating a two class system within their buildings. Westin also sells condos, but does so at properties specifically meant for that".

Reiterating, IT IS A TIMESHARE! It is NOT a condo. There are OV (they are not sold as OF, as far as I know) available for floating weeks buyers too.
Your misunderstanding must come from your interpretation of Fixed Week, Fixed Villa.
They are sold "by the week", not by the year. One picks the week they want to buy, and if it's a fixed week in a fixed villa, they will have that week and villa, guaranteed every year. 
If someone bought all 52 weeks, I guess their purchase could be considered a condo. Otherwise, it's a floating week and one buys a week in the view catagory they want. Simple.

Your comment:
"Just reserved WKORV for the week of July 4th 2007, Saturday to Saturday on June 30th. Just out of curiosity, I called back at noon asking when they sold out. Inventory lasted to just after 11AM that day. 

For those on the West Coast that didn't bother waking up at 5AM, yeah, they're bummed. For the rest of us, no problem".

And thanks to you ...You made my point.


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## ciscogizmo1 (Jul 11, 2006)

KOR5Star said:
			
		

> Just reserved WKORV for the week of July 4th 2007, Saturday to Saturday on June 30th.  Just out of curiosity, I called back at noon asking when they sold out.  Inventory lasted to just after 11AM that day.
> 
> For those on the West Coast that didn't bother waking up at 5AM, yeah, they're bummed.  For the rest of us, no problem.



If everyone thinks about it, at some point the window of opportunity will get smaller and smaller.  So for the those that didn't call by 11 am and didn't get the week they wanted will definitely call earlier next year.  Then, as the years go by everyone will start calling earlier and earlier.  It may not happen right away but some day it will...  JMHO...


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## DeniseM (Jul 11, 2006)

ciscogizmo1 said:
			
		

> If everyone thinks about it, at some point the window of opportunity will get smaller and smaller.  So for the those that didn't call by 11 am and didn't get the week they wanted will definitely call earlier next year.  Then, as the years go by everyone will start calling earlier and earlier.  It may not happen right away but some day it will...  JMHO...



Yes - but everyone doesn't think about it, fortunately!    Tuggers are well aware of what they need to do to get the Resv. they want, but there are many owners out there who don't bother to read the rules and never will.  

I saw a post on tripadvisor.com from a WKORV ocean front owner who was miffed because she tried to make a Resv. AFTER 8 mos. out and not only couldn't get the week she wanted, but couldn't get ocean front.  She had no  idea what the Resv. rules were and expected to get exactly what she wanted, even though the owner's priority period had passed.  

She said, "After I spent all that money, just because I made my Resv. one day late, we couldn't get our ocean front unit or the week we wanted."  She had no idea she was 4 mos. and one day late.... That kind of clueless owner makes it easier for the rest of us to get reservations. :whoopie:


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## skim118 (Jul 11, 2006)

ciscogizmo1 said:
			
		

> If everyone thinks about it, at some point the window of opportunity will get smaller and smaller.  So for the those that didn't call by 11 am and didn't get the week they wanted will definitely call earlier next year.  Then, as the years go by everyone will start calling earlier and earlier.  It may not happen right away but some day it will...  JMHO...



Valid point and Starwood reservations could also become difficult in the future.

But at least in Starwood all owners(single & multi-week) are treated equally & even more importantly you are only competing with owners that actually are planning to stay the same week as you (unlike so many Marriott owners booking these holiday weeks just to maximize their trading power for II deposits).


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## ciscogizmo1 (Jul 11, 2006)

DeniseM said:
			
		

> Yes - but everyone doesn't think about it, fortunately!    Tuggers are well aware of what they need to do to get the Resv. they want, but there are many owners out there who don't bother to read the rules and never will.
> 
> I saw a post on tripadvisor.com from a WKORV ocean front owner who was miffed because she tried to make a Resv. AFTER 8 mos. out and not only couldn't get the week she wanted, but couldn't get ocean front.  She had no  idea what the Resv. rules were and expected to get exactly what she wanted, even though the owner's priority period had passed.
> 
> She said, "After I spent all that money, just because I made my Resv. one day late, we couldn't get our ocean front unit or the week we wanted."  She had no idea she was 4 mos. and one day late.... That kind of clueless owner makes it easier for the rest of us to get reservations. :whoopie:



I do agree with you BUT for those that don't follow the rules the reservations will be harder for them to make.  Their window of opportunity will be smaller.  I'm not saying people who get up early and call will have trouble but for those that call an hour later might or will someday.

Honestly, I've never had an issue making a Marriott reservation.  I've heard everything from your resort isn't popular to you are just plain lucky or your resort is not sold out.  I've always been able to make my reservation 12 months out.  In fact my aunt who owns a Maui Marriott unit made her reservation 12 months out and then, the next week needed to change her check-in day from Saturday to Sunday and had no problem.  And, this was for a June summer month.  But when I told everyone that then, the excuse was that June wasn't as popular as July or August...  In my opinion I think those that don't get their Marriott reservation just call too late.  Even if it is a minute or two it is just too late.


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## ZCar (Jul 11, 2006)

Denise,

I think you pretty much said it, regardless of what system ...

"Yes - but everyone doesn't think about it, fortunately!   Tuggers are well aware of what they need to do to get the Resv. they want, but there are many owners out there who don't bother to read the rules and never will".

I would think Starwood, especially with deeded properties, also give owners a "Governing Documents Book (CC&R's) as Marriott does. I try to encourage one to at least look at it and try to grasp the details and requirements of ownership. One doesn't need to read every word, just sort out the important stuff.

Ours (Marriott) gives details of making reservations, exchanging, time elements, plus listing Villa numbers & type (1 br., etc.) and what the view of each is. It's a legal document and has most everything one needs to know.


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## jancurious (Jul 11, 2006)

skim118 said:
			
		

> But at least in Starwood all owners(single & multi-week) are treated equally & even more importantly you are only competing with owners that actually are planning to stay the same week as you (unlike so many Marriott owners booking these holiday weeks just to maximize their trading power for II deposits).



As I see it, there are pros & cons to each system.  It looks like in the future when Marriott takes their Marriott to Marriott exchanges internally, owners will probably have an easier time getting those few summer weeks.  However, the weeks they deposit into II for us, will be poorer traders for those of us that like to exchange into other non-Marriott resorts.

There is no one perfect system!   

Jan


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## taffy19 (Jul 11, 2006)

Jan, I still believe that the owners at the very popular resorts will still get very good exchanges anywhere else with II because many Marriott resorts are in demand most of the year as they are in prime locations too.

The desert in the summer, may not be so good for an exchange but it never was anyway and that's why there are so many cheap incentives to go there in the summer.

It's the high rental possibilities that may go away with the internal reservation system and the new Marriott rental policy too but you can still try to do it on your own.  If you bought for that reason mainly, then you may be pretty upset but not if you bought for using or exchanging to other nice resorts.  This is how I see it and time will tell soon enough.


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## KOR5Star (Jul 13, 2006)

ZCar said:
			
		

> Obviously, you didn't get either full or correct information or are applying your interpretation.


I'm not interpreting anything.  I'm telling it as it was told to me.  I could be incorrect.  "How do you tell when a timeshare salesman is lying?  His lips are moving."
I was told the ocean front side of the building was being reserved for full year condo ownership... not timeshare.  It had something to do with the county of Maui and the ratio of timeshares versus residences.  My wife has reminded me the salesman said they were fighting it and would try to make it available.  It that happened and it's open to timeshare, that's good.




			
				ZCar said:
			
		

> I'll dismiss your first comments, as we would disagree as to what either of us see as OK.


You are speaking about you alone while I'm speaking in general.  I understand that it works for you.  I assume you're no fool (wouldn't be talking to you if I thought that) and would not buy something that didn't work for you.  I'm saying timeshare owners IN GENERAL would be dissappointed with a lack luster kitchen and the need to schlep their clothes down to a laundry room... then babysit the machines.



			
				ZCar said:
			
		

> It is a FULL timeshare building. I don't understand your point.
> They are 2 Bedroom Villas or 3 Bedroom Villas. One must buy "the full condo", but only by weeks. Marriott is a Weeks system, with certain Weeks Fixed in a specific condo. Many timeshares do this. Other weeks are Floating. I would not want to own a Fixed week, though, but others prefer them.
> Why is it a two class system?


Again, if they changed this, that's a good thing.  All I can offer is what I was told.  It would be a two class system because you'd have permanent residents and timeshare owners.  Residents, due to familiarity if nothing else, would enjoy a disproportionate allocation of resources.



			
				ZCar said:
			
		

> The 13 week purchases are for Marriott Grand Residences. Only 3 or 4 of those.


We specifically asked about quarter shares on the ocean facing sides.  Again, they said they would be residences... not timeshare.



			
				ZCar said:
			
		

> Your answer: "Few understand the ramifications of this. The owners lose when the property does this. ... " I think you are searching for a problem that doesn't exist.


This from someone who paints the lack of a decent kitchen as a positive attribute. ;-)  The smaller the inventory pool, the quicker they will sell out on "reservation day".  It becomes increasingly probable for an early caller from group "A" to be out in the cold while there is still open inventory in group "B".  Faced with the choice of a lower floor or nothing, our caller would probably chose the lower floor.  The larger the inventory pool, the more fair the system is.  First come, first served.  It's a math thing.  It's kind of hard to explain it without writing a book.



			
				ZCar said:
			
		

> We paid more for the Penthouse at Ko'Olina and very glad we did. Marketing for profit or not, it's a good way for those that always want a certain level of view to guarantee it. Gee, two classes of ownership.


Condo type doesn't create the classes.  It's the amount of time you are there.  Someone who stays all winter or more will develop relationships and recognition from the staff and get far better service and a disproportionate share of the resources than someone in the most expensive unit for one week.  



			
				ZCar said:
			
		

> Your misunderstanding must come from your interpretation of Fixed Week, Fixed Villa.


Your assumptions about me are incorrect.  I am neither lacking in understanding or interpreting what I was told.  I am simply repeating what I was told.  If things have changed... that's simply wonderful.



			
				ZCar said:
			
		

> For those on the West Coast that didn't bother waking up at 5AM, yeah, they're bummed. For the rest of us, no problem".
> And thanks to you ...You made my point.


In the end, all timeshares run out.  The point was a slow computer wouldn't cause someone not to get a reservation at the WKORV... at least not this year.


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## daventrina (Jul 13, 2006)

KOR5Star said:
			
		

> I'm saying timeshare owners IN GENERAL would be dissappointed with a lack luster kitchen and the need to schlep their clothes down to a laundry room... then babysit the machines.


Not to say that a nice kitachen would not be an advantage, the issue we had with the kitchen was not so much that is wasn't fit for a chef. It would be nice if there was a larger fridge. But what is really missing (and we asked for the issue to be corrected) was that, unlike EVR, you couldn't call housekeeping and have them get you a wok, electric grill, or electric fry pan.
The smarter of the two of us said "if it can't be fixed in a microwave or on a grill, it is too much work to be on vacation. 

As for a washer in the unit, if it has to be cleaned before we get home and we can't rinse it out and dry it in the bath it generally doesn't get packed. We didn't spend all the cost to the islands for a little time to do laundry. So for us, it was wise of Marriott not to invest the cash and space to bring in washer/dryer units there by increasing the maint. fees.


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## ZCar (Jul 14, 2006)

KOR5Star,
Tell you what, maybe someone recently there can clarify or I will after late October visit.
My info is directly from the nice brochure sent to "Selected Owners" for first day pricing. I would have to assume the current Governing Documents book would have the correct info. 

However,
I don't think you were speaking "in general". You were speaking for you, just as I am speaking for myself. 
Then your quote:
"This from someone who paints the lack of a decent kitchen as a positive attribute. ;-) The smaller the inventory pool, the quicker they will sell out on "reservation day". It becomes increasingly probable for an early caller from group "A" to be out in the cold while there is still open inventory in group "B". Faced with the choice of a lower floor or nothing, our caller would probably chose the lower floor. The larger the inventory pool, the more fair the system is. First come, first served. It's a math thing. It's kind of hard to explain it without writing a book".

Don't understand the above quote:
A decent kitchen to many is a neutral attribute. If it's there, OK, if not OK too. We don't fret about it in Maui or Kauai Beach Club.
Heck, with a kitchen and cooking in, one has to spend time go to the store and "schlep" their groceries to their villa and spend all that time playing chef, dishwasher and maid. Washing clothes on the otherhand ... much faster and gives one a chance to read. Not all that bad.
Then, in Marriott, when one makes a floating week reservation, they can only request certain things; Building, floor(s) or even villa. They aren't given a choice to decide if they want the reservation, based on what floor level is available at that time. It is an unknown.
Which is why we own the Penthouse week at Ko'Olina. We don't know which Villa we'll get, but we know which ones are Penthouses. (It's in those pesky Governing Documents).

Another quote:
"Condo type doesn't create the classes. It's the amount of time you are there. Someone who stays all winter or more will develop relationships and recognition from the staff and get far better service and a disproportionate share of the resources than someone in the most expensive unit for one week".

I don't consider that a bad thing. Kind of natural, I would think. A lot of those "whole ownership" owners would rent the Villa too.
So, I guess since we use the lockouts for 2 consecutive weeks, the owners who do only one week should be upset with us, because we may get to know the staff a bit better.
We always get to know some of the staff. 

Can someone clarify the Maui Ownership options as presently available?
My source is the brochure. It's always possible some things have changed.


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## taffy19 (Jul 14, 2006)

ZCar said:
			
		

> KOR5Star,
> Tell you what, maybe someone recently there can clarify or I will after late October visit.
> My info is directly from the nice brochure sent to "Selected Owners" for first day pricing. I would have to assume the current Governing Documents book would have the correct info.
> 
> ...


ZCar, we were there in late March and early April and went to an update at the MOC too. There was no model yet of the two and three bedroom condos but they had pictures and a model of the two towers to show us in the sales office. They showed us a condo model of the units they are selling in the main building. We took pictures of everything as the resort is very nice and on the ocean too.

There are going to be two new towers. The one they are selling now is the Lahaina tower and they have fixed and floating units that can be bought by the week or by multiple weeks too but they are *timeshares only.*

We were told that there was a lottery in the very beginning and some people bought multiple weeks at the new tower on the first day. They were selling villas at the main building as well as at the new tower when we were there and they sold the last one bedroom unit at the main building that day to a young couple. They had several other sales when we were sitting there listening to the update and it was busy in the sales office too that day. We were not pressured at all which my DH appreciated.

From what I understand is that the other tower is going to be sold the same way as the Lahaina tower with fixed two and three bedroom deluxe ocean view units and floating units on the side facing the ocean too but not all. However, since all the permits were not in place yet, the sales lady told us that plans could change completely as nothing was carved in stone yet. PerryM was here this week so he should have more up-to-date news.

The new tower looks like it will be very nice and has a pool too but the main pool and grounds are beautiful already overlooking the ocean and beach. Here is the web site of the new towers and villas.

http://www.marriottsmauioceanclub.com/resort_villas.asp


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## ZCar (Jul 14, 2006)

Thanks Emmy,

We, among many others, received the nice brochure for "Selected Owners' for special opening day purchase pricing. It was a lottery, with a refundable $2500 deposit. The Fixed Week/Fixed Villa Registration had to be mailed by Jan. 21, 2006. Lottery was held Feb. 6, 2006.
Of note : "Purchases exceeding 13 weeks require prior approval from the Reginal Vice President". (How's that for sales confidence?)
There was even a 'pecking order'. Number of opportunities for being chosen was based on number of Marriott's Maui Ocean Club weeks currently owned.
ie: 1 chance for EOY Owners, up to 6 chances for 3 week owners, etc.
There's more, but this is from the brochure.

There was a slightly different program for Floating weeks purchase and another for upgrades.
We did not participate in this, since Villas were OV and we already have an OF 2 bedroom. The dollar differential of an upgrade (just to get a kitchen?) was not practical for us.

They're not inexpensive as pricing in brochure was:
(Brochure named these OF on price grid).
Floors 1, 3, 7, 8, 11 & 12 appeared to be those first available in lottery.
Least expensive was $45,000 for a 2 br., for weeks 48-50 on 1st Floor up to $117,000 for a 3 br. top floor (12th) Penthouse, week 52.
Wonder what pricing is today? There are people that can afford to buy all 52 weeks, but it's not us!

I know you prefer the fixed week/fixed villa format and we like the floating week. It's probably good that Marriott offers both.

Being a bit facetious, wonder how Marriott sold all the remaining one br. Villas in the old building without a full kitchen or washer/dryer?

Mahalo for your input.


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## taffy19 (Jul 14, 2006)

ZCar said:
			
		

> Being a bit facetious, wonder how Marriott sold all the remaining one br. Villas in the old building without a full kitchen or washer/dryer?


Not everybody wants to cook but I never noticed that they didn't have a washer and dryer in the condo until I read it here. That would have been more important to me. The model had such a nice view that I didn't pay too much attention to the condo, however, it is nice to be able to pack light when flying to Hawaii.


----------



## ZCar (Jul 14, 2006)

Hi Emmy,
Just to clarify, it's the converted Hotel part that doesn't have a washer/dryer in the Villas. The new Lanaina tower does.


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## Time2Ponder (Jul 14, 2006)

ZCar said:
			
		

> Hi Emmy,
> Just to clarify, it's the converted Hotel part that doesn't have a washer/dryer in the Villas. The new Lanaina tower does.



Well, the 1BR side does; but the studio side doesn't (as the WKORV and WKORV-N both do). 

When we did the tour of the models a couple of weeks ago, we noticed that they definitely alloted more space to the 1BR at the expense of  the studio side (which is really no bigger than a hotel room). That's why we ultimately opted to purchase a WKORV resale. Actually, when we walked into the studio, my husband said, "This is a deal-breaker" because it was so small.

However, different strokes for different folks!! 

Kim


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## ZCar (Jul 14, 2006)

Time,
If the Guest Suite in the new Marriott Lahaina Tower is similar to the Guest Suite at Marriott's Ko'Olina on O'ahu, it is indeed similar to a hotel room. At Ko'Olina, washer/dryers for the guest suites are in a room on certain floors, so I would suspect the same setup for Lahaina Tower.
Wondered about the Westin, but we'll probably tour in October. No, not buying either.


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## califgal (Jul 15, 2006)

Westin has washer and dryers in every unit, makes it very handy with kids!  BTW  all of this info would be very good for the acutal Marriott.  Hopefully an adminstrator can transfer it there, for marriott people who don't check this one.


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## ciscogizmo1 (Jul 15, 2006)

ZCar said:
			
		

> Time,
> .
> Wondered about the Westin, but we'll probably tour in October. No, not buying either.



Westin has washer/dryers on both sides of the unit.  There is one on the 1 bedroom side as well as the studio side.  So for me it took no time to do the laundry.  I did a load of whites on the studio side and a load of darks on the 1 bedroom side.  Laundry time was minimal to me.  I loved the washer/dryer in the unit.


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## KOR5Star (Jul 16, 2006)

ZCar said:
			
		

> Tell you what, maybe someone recently there can clarify or I will after late October visit.  My info is directly from the nice brochure sent to "Selected Owners" for first day pricing. I would have to assume the current Governing Documents book would have the correct info.


Once again, if it changed, that's great.  All I can do here is tell what we were told.  As for the governing docs, it wouldn't be in there.  This was a section of the building reserved for permanent residential use. They said it was to satisfy some demand by the county of Maui.  As such, it would not be part of the timeshare offering and would not appear in any of "those pesky Governing Documents", so don't bother looking in there... it's NOT TIMESHARE!  They said they were trying to fight it and make those units available as timeshare.    
It would make sense this would be in flux during the time they are trying to acquire permits and easements.  



			
				ZCar said:
			
		

> A decent kitchen to many is a neutral attribute. If it's there, OK, if not OK too. We don't fret about it in Maui or Kauai Beach Club.
> Heck, with a kitchen and cooking in, one has to spend time go to the store and "schlep" their groceries to their villa and spend all that time playing chef, dishwasher and maid. Washing clothes on the otherhand ... much faster and gives one a chance to read. Not all that bad.


Please realize what you're doing here.  You are painting the lack of amentities as either neutral or a positive.  Doing your wash in the community laundry machines provides a "chance to read"?     



			
				ZCar said:
			
		

> Then, in Marriott, when one makes a floating week reservation, they can only request certain things; Building, floor(s) or even villa. They aren't given a choice to decide if they want the reservation, based on what floor level is available at that time. It is an unknown.


???  Same at WKORV.  Never wrote otherwise. 



			
				ZCar said:
			
		

> Which is why we own the Penthouse week at Ko'Olina. We don't know which Villa we'll get, but we know which ones are Penthouses.


Very low number of those.  That's why a moment's hesitation on the phone or a slow computer will cause someone to miss getting their week.  With a larger pool of inventory this doesn't happen so quickly... even though there is an associated larger pool of owners.  That's why splitting the inventory by floors screws owners.



			
				ZCar said:
			
		

> So, I guess since we use the lockouts for 2 consecutive weeks, the owners who do only one week should be upset with us, because we may get to know the staff a bit better.  We always get to know some of the staff.


The difference between one week and two is inconsequential.  I'm talking about the difference between someone living there and someone visiting for a couple of weeks.  Do you really believe both parties will be treated equally by the staff?  Sure, they SHOULD be treated equally, but that's not reality.



			
				ZCar said:
			
		

> Can someone clarify the Maui Ownership options as presently available?  My source is the brochure. It's always possible some things have changed.


Again, brochure is meaningless with regards to residential units.  These units would not appear in any timeshare ownership offering or documents, since they are not timeshare.  
I think you're stuck on thinking that every unit in the building must be included in the timeshare offering.  That's simply not so.  They can divy up that building any way they want.  Sure, Marriott would make more money selling the entire thing as timeshare and that's why the were fighting it, but if Maui insists they offer permanent residencies to get the permits that's what Marriott will do. 
All I can tell you is what we were told at the time.  It's not interpretation.  It's not misunderstanding.  It's what we were told at the time.  My wife and I are both educated people with advanced degrees.  We are not newbies to timeshare and know what questions to ask.  We didn't just sit there while we were talked at.  We asked many questions and took the time to fully understand the offering.  If things changed, that's great.  All I can tell you is how it was when we were there.
One thing I think we can both agree on is the new buildings will be a lot better.


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## ZCar (Jul 16, 2006)

KOR5Star: 
Were you there before or after iconnections (Emmy) April visit?

Quote:
"??? Same at WKORV. Never wrote otherwise".
Yes you did.
"... Faced with the choice of a lower floor or nothing, our caller would probably chose the lower floor". See below.
Quote: Originally Posted by ZCar
Then, in Marriott, when one makes a floating week reservation, they can only request certain things; Building, floor(s) or even villa. They aren't given a choice to decide if they want the reservation, based on what floor level is available at that time. It is an unknown.

I'm not certain that this info would not be in the CC&R's. Are you positive?
It's all one building and those units would have to be accounted for.

"Do you really believe both parties will be treated equally by the staff? Sure, they SHOULD be treated equally, but that's not reality".
You know what, I really don't care if a "one week" owner would be treated equally to a "Full Time" owner. If I'm a decent person and treat the staff respectfully, I'll get treated equally. If I'm a full time owner, but a lousy person making demands, you think I'll be treated well?

"Please realize what you're doing here. You are painting the lack of amentities as either neutral or a positive. Doing your wash in the community laundry machines provides a "chance to read" (I love your wording). 
Noticed that you inserted the word "positive". It's neutral for us. And yes, give my wife a chance to read, anywhere, and she will. I carry the laundry and don't consider it a bit degrading (as your words infer) to "Doing your wash in the community laundry machines".
You didn't comment about "shleping" your groceries and all that time  ... wasted ... cooking and cleaning.

"My wife and I are both educated people with advanced degrees".
And just what is that to mean ... You know more than anyone else?


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## sandesurf (Jul 16, 2006)

LOL, this thread is very entertaining. Not quite enlightening, but entertaining none the less.


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## KOR5Star (Jul 17, 2006)

ZCar said:
			
		

> Were you there before or after iconnections (Emmy) April visit?


Before... February, of this year.



			
				ZCar said:
			
		

> "??? Same at WKORV. Never wrote otherwise".
> Yes you did.  "... Faced with the choice of a lower floor or nothing, our caller would probably chose the lower floor".


Out of context.  This was part of a larger passage meant to illustrate a point about Marroitt, not Westin.



			
				ZCar said:
			
		

> I carry the laundry and don't consider it a bit degrading (as your words infer) to "Doing your wash in the community laundry machines".


Out of context again.  Never.  Never have I implied anything was degrading.  You implied a positive ("time to read") out of waiting for your laundry.  The fact that they are community machines was only mentioned to illustrate you have to tend to them.  You can't start the washer or dryer, leave immediately and forget about the machine for the rest of the day.  



			
				ZCar said:
			
		

> You didn't comment about "shleping" your groceries and all that time  ... wasted ... cooking and cleaning.


Schlep what?  We go to the Westin site on-line, order our groceries and everything is in our fridge when we get there.  I'm almost positive Marriott offers a similar program.  No schlep for either of us.



			
				ZCar said:
			
		

> "My wife and I are both educated people with advanced degrees".  And just what is that to mean ... You know more than anyone else?


No, not at all.  Just more than you.  :whoopie: 

:ignore:  OK, I have to apologize to you for that last one.  I just couldn't help myself.  I didn't mean it... just wrote it in fun.  You left yourself open for that one.  

You sound like you are very confident and informed. My point was... so are we.  That's all.  

It's easy to misinterpret the written word.  Someone once told me the majority of meaning comes from body language and voice inflection.  I whole heartedly agree.  Without those, we miss a lot.  Please believe me that nothing I have written was ever meant to be condescending to anyone.

The title of this thread was "Glad we own at WKORV and not at Marriott".  I too am glad so I joined in and said why.  If it was "Glad we own at Marriott and not at Westin", I would have not participated at all.  It was never meant to be a Westin versus Marriott thing, but that's what it became. We should all just get along.  The Marriott and Westin are two of the nicest timeshares on the island, hence the rivalry.  The existing Marriott is a great place for many people.  The new towers will be even better and appeal to more.

Live long and prosper.


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## ZCar (Jul 17, 2006)

Hey KOR5Star,
I did leave myself open, but you knew what I meant.
No, Marriott doesn't have a grocery shopping service I know of. Actually, we wouldn't use it. I'm rather picky about the papayas, plus we never know what we want ... usually cheese, wine, crackers, popcorn, light nibbly stuff.

Each of us is different. 
You said: "The fact that they are community machines was only mentioned to illustrate you have to tend to them. You can't start the washer or dryer, leave immediately and forget about the machine for the rest of the day".
My wife will never leave dried laundry in the dryer, It comes out hot! We wait.
The bed, at timeshare and home, must be made.
All dishes (at home) have to be clean and then put in dishwasher before going anywhere. Even the few glasses/plates used at the timeshare are washed. Just those individual quirks.

As far as this thread getting off-track, you must admit your first post was a rather strong anti-Maui Marriott hotel conversion opinion, with which I disagreed.
Amenities are individual choices. I could care less about a pool. Nice to look at, but a garden area will work for me. Others won't go to any resort that has only a small pool.

I think we did get across that in either system, one must call early to be relatively assured of getting the week one wants.
We'll do both presentations in Maui. 
(We did do a Sheratin presentation for Desert Oasis, Phoenix about 4 years ago, while staying at The Villas of Cave Creek. No pressure at all, but didn't care for system, as we understood it. We wouldn't buy in AZ anyway, as we can get to Hawaii in just about as many hours). 
Is the Westin system different?). 

It is strange that your view has never appeared on the Marriott board, nor have I seen any comment as to Westin being required by Maui to offer "Full Shares" in their new building(s). 

So, as you sort of suggested, we'll let it ride for now and I'll find out in October. If wrong, I'll apologize, but not for the amenities available.


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