# DSVII - No Availability at Home Resort?



## RandyR (Apr 3, 2013)

Yesterday, I called Marriott Owner Services to reserve my 2013 Blue Week (admittedly, much later than ideal) and was told there was "no availability" at DSVII and, therefore, I could not book my unit. Huh? First, am I not guaranteed a week at my home resort by virtue of my deed (not to mention annual maintenance fee of $1,200). I am a weeks owner, not points or Destination Club member. Second, I simply cannot believe that DSV in Palm Desert, CA would be completely booked up in the middle of the summer. I have been there in July and August for the past 3 years and the place has seemed to be no more than half-full, at most.

Any insight or advice would be greatly appreciated!


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## Quadmaniac (Apr 3, 2013)

I would call back and speak to someone else. I can't see how it would be possible there are no weeks available when you are a deeded owner unless they oversold the deeds in the first place.

If you were depositing into II, they can give you a replacement week from their predeposited weeks in II if you wanted to trade it.


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## Bill4728 (Apr 3, 2013)

If the whole blue season is still ahead of you. (which I believe is true)  Then you are right, there must be a week available for you to reserve. 

If the season was underway, it is possible for no weeks to be available because they could have been some unused weeks in the early part of the season and all the rest of the weeks are reserved. BUT as I said, if blue season has't started yet it is not possible for there to be no weeks available to an owner of a blue season week.


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## sparty (Apr 3, 2013)

Bill4728 said:


> If the whole blue season is still ahead of you. (which I believe is true)  Then you are right, there must be a week available for you to reserve.
> 
> If the season was underway, it is possible for no weeks to be available because they could have been some unused weeks in the early part of the season and all the rest of the weeks are reserved. BUT as I said, if blue season has't started yet it is not possible for there to be no weeks available to an owner of a blue season week.



Blue is week 28 (July 11) to week 35 (Sep 9)

Plenty of availability in II Getaways:
2 bdrm $537
1 bdrm $377
studio   $247

Contemplating myself on using a getaway


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## Saintsfanfl (Apr 3, 2013)

Marriott can take the weeks at some point, I believe at 75 days out. That said, the first check-in day of the blue season is about 98 days out. Unless I am missing something it is impossible for there to not be a single week available. Is there anything like the Florida Club at this resort where other resorts can cross over?


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## RandyR (Apr 3, 2013)

You are correct, Bill. The blue season doesn't begin until July 12 - more than four months from now. Inventory can't possibly be that scarce during the hottest part of the year in Palm Desert.


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## Saintsfanfl (Apr 3, 2013)

RandyR said:


> You are correct, Bill. The blue season doesn't begin until July 12 - more than four months from now. Inventory can't possibly be that scarce during the hottest part of the year in Palm Desert.



It's a little more than three months but even so, unless someone can cross over or they are mixing inventory, mathematically there has to be availability. I would be raising some hell.


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## jlr10 (Apr 4, 2013)

I cannot comment on the availability but when we have traveled there in the summer the resort has always been completely booked.   Many people stay indoors during the day (as do we) so it might be full even if it doesn't appear that way.


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## dioxide45 (Apr 4, 2013)

Why doesn't the OP do some checking in the online system to see if there is availability? That would be the surest way to know for sure what is available.


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## thinze3 (Apr 4, 2013)

Something doesn't add up here.  As mentioned above, check online inventory.  

If an acceptable reason is ultimately given that makes sense and prevents you from making a reservation, hurry up make a deposit with II using your online account (my-vacationclub.com) and force Marriott pick the week.


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## Pompey Family (Apr 4, 2013)

That happened to me when I tried to book my Harbour Lake week but then the operator realised she had been looking at 2012 not 2013!

I was preparing to raise hell but then she realised her error.  It may be worth checking again just in case your operator had got it wrong.


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## bogey21 (Apr 4, 2013)

RandyR said:


> Huh? First, am I not guaranteed a week at my home resort by virtue of my deed (not to mention annual maintenance fee of $1,200). I am a weeks owner, not points or Destination Club member.



I understand that there can be legitimate reasons for this but it has to be tough to spend that much money and not be able to reserve a Week at your home resort.  It is one of the reasons that many years ago I sold my Floating Weeks and bought exclusively Fixed Weeks (Fixed Units too).

George


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## Saintsfanfl (Apr 4, 2013)

_[comment deleted]

Moderator Note:  Let's give the OP a reasonable amount of time to handle this without lecturing him/her.  _


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## Saintsfanfl (Apr 4, 2013)

bogey21 said:


> I understand that there can be *legitimate reasons* for this but it has to be tough to spend that much money and not be able to reserve a Week at your home resort.  It is one of the reasons that many years ago I sold my Floating Weeks and bought exclusively Fixed Weeks (Fixed Units too).
> 
> George



What would be one legitimate reason for it? There is only one owner per unit. I own at Ocean Pointe and we have a different deal where it can happen but it is not like that everywhere. I think the rep just made a mistake.


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## SueDonJ (Apr 4, 2013)

bogey21 said:


> I understand that there can be legitimate reasons for this but it has to be tough to spend that much money and not be able to reserve a Week at your home resort.  It is one of the reasons that many years ago I sold my Floating Weeks and bought exclusively Fixed Weeks (Fixed Units too).
> 
> George



I don't share your understanding at all!  If officially there aren't ANY in-season intervals available for the OP this far out from the start of the season then Marriott has some explaining to do.  The only reason I can think of that would make any sense is that the DSVII governing docs give Marriott access to un-booked intervals much further out than the (74 or 75)-day mark that's in every other resorts' governing docs, but if that's the case I don't remember it ever being discussed here before.  If that's not the case then I hope the OP will take this as far as is necessary to get a sufficient answer, and that he'll report it to TUG.


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## davidvel (Apr 4, 2013)

SueDonJ said:


> The only reason I can think of that would make any sense is that the DSVII governing docs give Marriott access to un-booked intervals much further out than the (74 or 75)-day mark that's in every other resorts' governing docs, but if that's the case I don't remember it ever being discussed here before.



A call to any DSVII owners to scan and post their condo docs so all us non-lawyers and lawyers  can analyze.


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## Fredm (Apr 4, 2013)

It is not clear to me that the OP was not referring to a specific week reservation request.

It is easy to read the post as requesting any Blue Season week. But, he does not say one way or the other. I would like the OP to clarify. 

I agree with all others that there should be a reservation available sometime during Blue season.


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## Beefnot (Apr 4, 2013)

Can Marriott take back intervals from II once they have given them to II for exchange/rent?


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## DazedandConfused (Apr 4, 2013)

RandyR said:


> First, am I not guaranteed a week at my home resort by virtue of my deed (not to mention annual maintenance fee of $1,200).





sparty said:


> Blue is week 28 (July 11) to week 35 (Sep 9)
> 
> Plenty of availability in II Getaways:
> 2 bdrm $537
> ...



It appears that you can book a getaway week for much less than your annual dues.

Time to sell your contract and rent via cash for much less.


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## Saintsfanfl (Apr 4, 2013)

Fredm said:


> It is not clear to me that the OP was not referring to a specific week reservation request.
> 
> It is easy to read the post as requesting any Blue Season week. But, he does not say one way or the other. I would like the OP to clarify.
> 
> I agree with all others that there should be a reservation available sometime during Blue season.



Possible, but it sure looks like the OP is referring to any week in the season.



RandyR said:


> Yesterday, I called Marriott Owner Services to reserve my 2013 Blue Week (admittedly, much later than ideal) and was told there was *"no availability" at DSVII* and, therefore, *I could not book my unit*. Huh? First, am I not *guaranteed a week* at my home resort by virtue of my deed (not to mention annual maintenance fee of $1,200). I am a weeks owner, not points or Destination Club member. Second, I simply cannot believe that DSV in Palm Desert, CA would be *completely booked up in the middle of the summer*. I have been there in *July and August* for the past 3 years and the place has seemed to be no more than half-full, at most.
> 
> Any insight or advice would be greatly appreciated!



I wasn't really serious about the 2 pages of speculation


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## Quadmaniac (Apr 4, 2013)

Beefnot said:


> Can Marriott take back intervals from II once they have given them to II for exchange/rent?



Yep they can if they need to give it to someone to deposit into II. They did this for me for my WR when they did not have any more lock out units, so they called II and arranged for supplemental weeks that function like normal deposits. Not sure Marriott can get it back from II for use at the resort or not though.


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## Fredm (Apr 4, 2013)

Saintsfanfl said:


> Possible, but it sure looks like the OP is referring to any week in the season.



Yep, sure look like it at first glance. But, not entirely clear.
Everything you highlighted can be interpreted a couple of ways.  
"I could not book my unit", and,  "not guaranteed a week at my home resort by virtue of my deed" could mean that he does not have a right to his deeded unit and week number. Which he does not.  
"completely booked up in the middle of the summer" may mean a specific week, as opposed to a week at the end or beginning of the summer.
And so on.  

Since it makes absolutely no sense that a week would not be available, I am opting for a greater likelihood that the OP tried to reserve a specific week.

Hope the OP comes back and clears up the mystery.


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## SueDonJ (Apr 4, 2013)

Fredm said:


> Yep, sure look like it at first glance. But, not entirely clear.
> Since it makes absolutely no sense that a week would not be available, I am opting for a greater likelihood that the OP tried to reserve a specific week.
> 
> Hope the OP comes back and clears up the mystery.



I agree.  All this speculation is also assuming that the OP's account is in good standing, and that there's been no prior usage election of the same Week s/he's trying to book.


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## davidvel (Apr 4, 2013)

DazedandConfused said:


> It appears that you can book a getaway week for much less than your annual dues.
> 
> Time to sell your contract and rent via cash for much less.



Unless this is her only week. . . . Or can you stay in II after you sell?


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## Saintsfanfl (Apr 4, 2013)

davidvel said:


> Unless this is her only week. . . . Or can you stay in II after you sell?



You can indeed. It is a rather attractive option if you are flexible. Sell everything and book getaways. You can even get an AC sometimes for booking a getaway.


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## davidvel (Apr 4, 2013)

Saintsfanfl said:


> You can indeed. It is a rather attractive option if you are flexible. Sell everything and book getaways. You can even get an AC sometimes for booking a getaway.



Very cool, thanks!


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## Cmore (Apr 4, 2013)

davidvel said:


> A call to any DSVII owners to scan and post their condo docs so all us non-lawyers and lawyers  can analyze.



I am a long time owner at DS II (enrolled owner), I don't have my ownership doc's currently, but will look thru them for the cut off dates for locking in a unit during your season.  As others have mentioned, I think there is some issue or confusion with the data we have been provided.

I don't have an available week to reserve at present, but have some DC points and I did perform multiple DC searches (not that that proves anything) and there are many openings in the Blue season.  Another call to Marriott by the OP should clear up the matter, whether it is with their account status or simply asking which weeks are available for reserving.   I know I used to book my weeks on-line and you could readily see what was available without calling in on the MVCI website.  

I guess, I find it hard to believe there is not a week to reserve - something doesn't make sense.


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## cp73 (Apr 4, 2013)

The original poster didn't mention whether he was referring to a 2 bedroom unit being available or just any size available. I can see that there are no 2 bedroom units available for a week but at different weeks a one bedroom and studio must be available at some time during that season. 
Also remember at that resort you can split your stay into a three day and four day stays. That also could make no solid weeks available in a 2 bedroom.

I do see the possibilities of no 2 bedroom units available for a weeks time. However if your able to break it apart there should be some availability at various times during the season.


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## Saintsfanfl (Apr 4, 2013)

cp73 said:


> The original poster didn't mention whether he was referring to a 2 bedroom unit being available or just any size available. I can see that there are no 2 bedroom units available for a week but at different weeks a one bedroom and studio must be available at some time during that season.
> Also remember at that resort you can split your stay into a three day and four day stays. That also could make no solid weeks available in a 2 bedroom.
> 
> I do see the possibilities of no 2 bedroom units available for a weeks time. However if your able to break it apart there should be some availability at various times during the season.



Well, that could very well explain it. The rep should have communicated this though.


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## dioxide45 (Apr 4, 2013)

Saintsfanfl said:


> You can indeed. It is a rather attractive option if you are flexible. Sell everything and book getaways. You can even get an AC sometimes for booking a getaway.



You may not be able to if you only have an enrolled week. Your DC corporate II account may become disabled if you sell all enrolled weeks. Though you could always just buy a week sign add it to your old II account and then turn around and sell the week.


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## dioxide45 (Apr 4, 2013)

It is also possible that the rep was looking at 2014, and of course there would be no availability since the inventory hasn't even been released yet. Though the rep should have known that, but stranger things have happened. Though the rep may have been in "robot mode" since everyone calling in these days is booking for 2014.


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## rrickyg (Apr 4, 2013)

*Taking a look*

Just for drill I just tried to book various weeks in July and August with dc points and had no trouble seeing available weeks.


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## Saintsfanfl (Apr 4, 2013)

dioxide45 said:


> You may not be able to if you only have an enrolled week. Your DC corporate II account may become disabled if you sell all enrolled weeks. Though you could always just buy a week sign add it to your old II account and then turn around and sell the week.



Very true. I rarely think of that perspective since I am being illegallybawl blocked from enrolling my weeks.


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## Saintsfanfl (Apr 4, 2013)

rrickyg said:


> Just for drill I just tried to book various weeks in July and August with dc points and had no trouble seeing available weeks.



Right, but that inventory should be segregated as a separate block of units. The OP should not be able to book what you are seeing.


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## DanaTom (Apr 4, 2013)

cp73 said:


> The original poster didn't mention whether he was referring to a 2 bedroom unit being available or just any size available. I can see that there are no 2 bedroom units available for a week but at different weeks a one bedroom and studio must be available at some time during that season.
> Also remember at that resort you can split your stay into a three day and four day stays. That also could make no solid weeks available in a 2 bedroom.
> 
> I do see the possibilities of no 2 bedroom units available for a weeks time. However if your able to break it apart there should be some availability at various times during the season.







I think you have probably solved the puzzle...    I could imagine that this late in the process, the only thing left would be studios and one bdrms...  as you can always lockoff and reserve separately.   

Hopefully the OP will enlighten us when he calls again...


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## dioxide45 (Apr 4, 2013)

DanaTom said:


> I think you have probably solved the puzzle...    I could imagine that this late in the process, the only thing left would be studios and one bdrms...  as you can always lockoff and reserve separately.
> 
> Hopefully the OP will enlighten us when he calls again...



Though if there is a 1BR and a studio available for the same checkin date, then wouldn't there also have to be a 2BR available? I would have to think that availability is very spotty with no same checkin dates for a 1BR and a studio? I think 100% of the units at DSVII are lock off capable?


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## DanaTom (Apr 4, 2013)

dioxide45 said:


> Though if there is a 1BR and a studio available for the same checkin date, then wouldn't there also have to be a 2BR available? I would have to think that availability is very spotty with no same checkin dates for a 1BR and a studio? I think 100% of the units at DSVII are lock off capable?





I think the theory is that when reserving your week, some lock off and get a 1bd for one week, and a studio for another week.   Thus, the last one to reserve would be left with only a similar 1bd one week, and a studio another week.   Eventually there would be no 2bd lockoffs remaining.    

I think this makes sense, and explains why they said there was no availability for a 2bdrm lockoff.


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## cp73 (Apr 4, 2013)

DanaTom said:


> I think the theory is that when reserving your week, some lock off and get a 1bd for one week, and a studio for another week.   Thus, the last one to reserve would be left with only a similar 1bd one week, and a studio another week.   Eventually there would be no 2bd lockoffs remaining.



Exactly, thats what I have done the last three years with my DSV I. Split it up from the start and reserve two totally different weeks usually back to back.


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## Cmore (Apr 4, 2013)

The cut off for a "guaranteed" 2br full week reservation is placing that reservation at least 75 days prior to the start of a floating season.  So if the OP is looking for a 2Br reservation - they are entitled one.  Maybe not the week they want, but a week within the season nonetheless.  

So as has been discussed, we either don't have all the facts, or the VOA made made a mistake.   The OP just needs to book online or call in again.  This will be easily cleared up unless there are extenuating circumstances that make the OP ineligible for a reservation.


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## sea&ski (Apr 4, 2013)

*Overall Enlightenment Needed Here*

After reading some of the comments (including the (un)edited one) this morning, I  thought I'd check back in and see what has transpired.  The question I have is this.  I thought that we, as Marriott t.s. owners, had until Dec. 31 of the preceding year to claim our week for the following year in our season?  As things have been-mostly-patiently explained to me, there actually are more people in a season than units available, esp at the resorts we own.  We absolutely could not book a week in our season one year during the season's reservation window, but I waited and waited, suffered through the emails reminding me I had until 12/31 to do something with my week, and lo and behold!  weeks appeared one day when I checked.  I assumed that there had been some changes made by owners, allowing me access.  I am fairly certain there were no weeks in my season that Marriott owned at that time, so the appearance could not be explained in that way.  I would never, in a million years, have been complacent to wait until the 3 months prior to my usage to phone and ask for a week, any week.  Hmm????


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## cp73 (Apr 4, 2013)

DanaTom said:


> I think the theory is that when reserving your week, some lock off and get a 1bd for one week, and a studio for another week.   Thus, the last one to reserve would be left with only a similar 1bd one week, and a studio another week.   Eventually there would be no 2bd lockoffs remaining.



Exactly, thats what I have done the last three years with my DSV I. Split it up from the start and reserve two totally different weeks usually back to back.


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## Cmore (Apr 4, 2013)

sea&ski said:


> After reading some of the comments (including the (un)edited one) this morning, I  thought I'd check back in and see what has transpired.  The question I have is this.  I thought that we, as Marriott t.s. owners, had until Dec. 31 of the preceding year to claim our week for the following year in our season?  As things have been-mostly-patiently explained to me, there actually are more people in a season than units available, esp at the resorts we own.  We absolutely could not book a week in our season one year during the season's reservation window, but I waited and waited, suffered through the emails reminding me I had until 12/31 to do something with my week, and lo and behold!  weeks appeared one day when I checked.  I assumed that there had been some changes made by owners, allowing me access.  I am fairly certain there were no weeks in my season that Marriott owned at that time, so the appearance could not be explained in that way.  I would never, in a million years, have been complacent to wait until the 3 months prior to my usage to phone and ask for a week, any week.  Hmm????



For weeks based ownership on a single resort ( meaning no Florida club which probably has different rules). The reservation window opens 12 months prior to the week you want to reserve, or 13 months if you a multiple week owner requesting back to back reservations of multiple weeks.  In this thread the concern is when do you lose "guaranteed" access to your ability to reserve a week. The answer from a VOA was 75 days prior to the season, which matches my Cypress Harbour doc's as I couldn't find my Desert Springs Doc's when I looked earlier this evening.  Waiting is not advised, but you can wait until the 75 day prior to the start of your season without risk of loss of your week - this answer is based on occupying your full unit.

Under no circumstances are there more weeks sold than there are available weeks within a season or a year for that matter - that would be illegal.  You own the specific right to use a week within your season, when following the parameters set forth in the governing doc's - period !  This basic principle is true for the DC as well, so even DC points owners are entitled to use somewhere as long as they follow the scheduling rules for the DC.   I doubt very highly that Marriott (MVCI or MVW) would ever risk screwing up on this point.  Not saying an uninformed rep wouldn't make a mistake, but that would be easily remedied.  I have to believe that "lost weeks" are due to owner mistakes and not Marriott denying use when owners are following the rules governing use of their week.


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## DanaTom (Apr 5, 2013)

sea&ski said:


> After reading some of the comments (including the (un)edited one) this morning, I  thought I'd check back in and see what has transpired.  The question I have is this.  I thought that we, as Marriott t.s. owners, had until Dec. 31 of the preceding year to claim our week for the following year in our season?  As things have been-mostly-patiently explained to me, there actually are more people in a season than units available, esp at the resorts we own.  We absolutely could not book a week in our season one year during the season's reservation window, but I waited and waited, suffered through the emails reminding me I had until 12/31 to do something with my week, and lo and behold!  weeks appeared one day when I checked.  I assumed that there had been some changes made by owners, allowing me access.  I am fairly certain there were no weeks in my season that Marriott owned at that time, so the appearance could not be explained in that way.  I would never, in a million years, have been complacent to wait until the 3 months prior to my usage to phone and ask for a week, any week.  Hmm????




I too am enlightened by this thread.   Interesting that one is legally entitled to a full 2bd unit week.   Which does beg the question.... if all weeks are sold out, and owners are allowed to lock-off and get two separate weeks, then there would be some unable to get a full 2bd unit.   I wonder if the governing docs do have a flaw caused by allowing an owner to lock off into two weeks. 

very interesting...


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## MALC9990 (Apr 5, 2013)

DanaTom said:


> I too am enlightened by this thread.   Interesting that one is legally entitled to a full 2bd unit week.   Which does beg the question.... if all weeks are sold out, and owners are allowed to lock-off and get two separate weeks, then there would be some unable to get a full 2bd unit.   I wonder if the governing docs do have a flaw caused by allowing an owner to lock off into two weeks.
> 
> very interesting...



This is of course. Very complex situation regarding availability. There are many variables within one particular season. In my case at Son Antem the Gold Season, which is my season for my 4 weeks ownership, is split into three separate periods in the year. This can make getting a reservation in, what I consider to be the key slot of the 3 weeks in mid June to early July, a challenge. At Son Antem there is also a Gold Holiday Season. Owners of Gold Holiday weeks can also reserve a Gold week but Gold week owners cannot reserve a Gold Holiday week. So there is clearly the potential for a Gold week Owner to be unable to reserve a week in their season if they leave reserving until late. This is especially so if some of the Gold Holiday owners decide to reserve Gold Season weeks. Add to this owners exchanging weeks for MR points, something we are told in the annual financial reports for the resort that upto one third of owners do each year - I know - absolutely amazing how ill advised some owners are. However this at least does provide wiggle room for Marriott to help owners who are too late in the year to reserve and find themselves in a pickle.

I was in that position myself with my second resale week purchase. The process started late in the year and the week use was to start the following year. Since we were already all planned for the next year anyway, my intention was only to get any week I could in the season and then deposit in II for a future exchange. When the week was finally transferred we were now into late August in the year and when I looked to reserve, it was already within the 75 days to the last week in the season. no weeks were available since Marriott had used their right to take any unreserved weeks.

Obviously I complained since it was Marriott's fault that the transfer had dragged on for ten months. The seller could not have reserved me a week since he was deceased and his estate lawyers were unconcerned about such trivialities. If Marriott had not delayed the transfer due to their inability to handle the transfer of a week from a German estate to a British owner it would have happened in Feb at the latest.

In my case Marriott deposited a week in my II account for me and the issue was resolved. But this situation can occur if there are many weeks given up for MR points and enough weeks broken due to the split week option that weeks owners have and now due to DC point week deposits and split week reservations by DC point reservations. Add in the Gold Holiday season owner situation and it gets very challenging.

All in all this is such a complex situation that without access to all the reservation data and a sophisticated computer system that manages the reservations it is impossible for us owners to adequately predict what is happening. Only Marriott can do that and they will not be open about that of course.


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## Fredm (Apr 5, 2013)

deleted.....


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## dioxide45 (Apr 5, 2013)

But that 104th interval might not be available as a whole 2BR unit. The 1BR might be available in for week 10 and the studio available in week 42. So there is inventory there to reserve but it just isn't a whole 2BR unit available on a single checkin day.

In the absence of the OP however, much of this is speculation. The OP never indicated that they were trying to reserve an entire 2BR unit, nor a studio or a 1BR for that matter.


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## Fredm (Apr 5, 2013)

dioxide45 said:


> But that 104th interval might not be available as a whole 2BR unit. The 1BR might be available in for week 10 and the studio available in week 42. So there is inventory there to reserve but it just isn't a whole 2BR unit available on a single checkin day.
> 
> In the absence of the OP however, much of this is speculation. The OP never indicated that they were trying to reserve an entire 2BR unit, nor a studio or a 1BR for that matter.



Yes, I deleted my post. It is all speculation.


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## Cmore (Apr 5, 2013)

DanaTom said:


> I too am enlightened by this thread.   Interesting that one is legally entitled to a full 2bd unit week.   Which does beg the question.... if all weeks are sold out, and owners are allowed to lock-off and get two separate weeks, then there would be some unable to get a full 2bd unit.   I wonder if the governing docs do have a flaw caused by allowing an owner to lock off into two weeks.
> 
> very interesting...



Yes, complicated metrics when you try to think of the possibilities.  As MALC9990 points out, Marriott has wiggle room to help them facilitate owner preferences of splitting locking off, etc. 

Helping them with this is the fact that they never sell ALL 52 weeks, they keep one or two weeks for deep cleaning/refurb. For example, in one of my doc's I read my ownership as 1/51 interest in a unit.  Then you have MR redemptions, deposits into II, Marriott owned weeks (and now trust owned weeks), unsold weeks at any particular resort, plus all the weeks that go unused from from owners who don't know how to use their weeks, die, or are otherwise ineligible from using their week(s) due to non payment, booked too late, etc.  all of these things add inventory for use flexibility.

One thing everyone may be interested in, is when reading my materials from one of my units was once you split week or lock off- you are not guaranteed the use of the unused (unscheduled) portion.  So if you book one part of a split week, and wait for the other 1/2 week - availability will drive your future reservation - not guaranteed use.  That said, I am not aware of anyone being turned down, but it was interesting to read.   I suspect all the factors listed above, plus any I forgot about, give MVCI/MVW adequate flexibility to handle the split week and lock off use.


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## bogey21 (Apr 5, 2013)

Saintsfanfl said:


> What would be one legitimate reason for it? There is only one owner per unit.......I think the rep just made a mistake.



Apparently one legitimate reason results from other Owners splitting their lock-off into two separate units.

George


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## Art (Apr 5, 2013)

Interesting that the OP  has not been back with any follow-up. It  would be nice  to  hear  his answer  to some of the questions that have been raised.

Art


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## sparty (Apr 5, 2013)

Cmore said:


> Yes, complicated metrics when you try to think of the possibilities.  Helping them with this is the fact that they never sell ALL 52 weeks, they keep one or two weeks for deep cleaning/refurb. For example, in one of my doc's I read my ownership as 1/51 interest in a unit.



Pretty close, VAC's CBO (Chief Beancounter Officer) recently spent some time telling the analysts how he was going to address cost of vacation ownership.  He commented he was making some "true-ups" on the cost.  For weeks sold, they sold 51.5 weeks worth of usage. (While the .5 may seem strange at first it can be explained).

For points he said VAC wasn't sure on the usage model in 2010 so they assigned 48  weeks of usage for each unit.  VAC says they have matured and understand the usage model now so that target is being bumped up to 49. This is being implemented now...

Does this mean in 2013 we will see more PTS folks fustrated they can't get what they want? VAC doesn't think this will be the case.


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## dioxide45 (Apr 5, 2013)

sparty said:


> Pretty close, VAC's CBO (Chief Beancounter Officer) recently spent some time telling the analysts how he was going to address cost of vacation ownership.  He commented he was making some "true-ups" on the cost.  For weeks sold, they sold 51.5 weeks worth of usage. (While the .5 may seem strange at first it can be explained).



I think for the call they may have used an average for weeks sold. Some resorts were 52 some others 51. There is also one resort where they only sold 50 weeks of usage. There is another older one in HHI where there are four maintenance weeks, but the probably rent those out most years.


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## RandyR (Apr 11, 2013)

Thank you all for your responses. I apologize for falling off the thread. There were originally only a few responses and I thought that was all I would receive. Boy, was I mistaken!

So my original request to Marriott was to book a full villa for any week (with a preference for the end of the season - late August). On my first call, I was told there was something wrong with the reservation system and they could not process my request, but would call me back the next day with an update. I was never contacted. I called back and was told there was no availability at DSVII - so sorry - but they would request that Interval allow me the same trade value even without an actual week to deposit. I was told "90% of the time there is no problem with this" and I would receive an email from Interval either way within the next day or two. Guess what - no email from Interval. Tonight, I called Marriott and was again told, with great certainty and no empathy, that no weeks were available for reservation and it was my fault for not booking far enough in advance. I noted my understanding that I am eligible for a week as long as I book at least 75 days out from the start of my season. Yes, the representative told me, it's too bad you're inside that 75 day window. You should plan better next time. 

Immediately after, I reviewed the calendar again and determined that, as of today, I am 90 days out from the start of Blue Season. I called back and, after putting me on hold for a minute, another rep advised that apparently there are indeed a few one bedroom and lock offs available but no full villas. I expressed great skepticism that the resort is truly sold out of full villas for a season in the middle of the summer at a resort in the middle of the desert with average temperatures of 115 degrees unless the Super Bowl had suddenly been rescheduled and relocated to Palm Desert in August.

I also did a couple of standard searches on marriott.com for two bedroom villas at DSVII for various weeks in July and August. I had no trouble finding them available for reservation.

That's where it stands. I advised the rep that I will be closely reviewing my contract to verify my rights and options and will be calling again tomorrow for a conversation with someone higher up in the chain of command. I am grateful for all the insight and advice offered by the TUG community! Again, I apologize for disappearing and leaving questions unanswered.

Randy


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## LAX Mom (Apr 11, 2013)

RandyR,
I assume there are no 1 bedroom & studios available for the same date that can be booked as a 2 bedroom unit?
Hard to believe that there are no 2 bedroom units available for the entire season, which doesn't even start for 90 days?
Do most people lock-off at this resort? 

Marriott definitely owes you a week within your season. But if all they can deliver is a 1 bedroom week #30 and a studio week #28, then maybe they have satisfied their obligation to you. 

Please post again when you resolve this with Marriott.


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## Cmore (Apr 11, 2013)

RandyR said:


> Thank you all for your responses. I apologize for falling off the thread. There were originally only a few responses and I thought that was all I would receive. Boy, was I mistaken!
> 
> So my original request to Marriott was to book a full villa for any week (with a preference for the end of the season - late August). On my first call, I was told there was something wrong with the reservation system and they could not process my request, but would call me back the next day with an update. I was never contacted. I called back and was told there was no availability at DSVII - so sorry - but they would request that Interval allow me the same trade value even without an actual week to deposit. I was told "90% of the time there is no problem with this" and I would receive an email from Interval either way within the next day or two. Guess what - no email from Interval. Tonight, I called Marriott and was again told, with great certainty and no empathy, that no weeks were available for reservation and it was my fault for not booking far enough in advance. I noted my understanding that I am eligible for a week as long as I book at least 75 days out from the start of my season. Yes, the representative told me, it's too bad you're inside that 75 day window. You should plan better next time.
> 
> ...



Good luck with your next call, and keep us posted.  This is quite interesting.  They owe you a week, based on you being outside the 75 day window, as long as you are current on MF's, etc.  someone has to honor your week or more than make up for their breach of your use rights.


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## benyu2010 (Apr 11, 2013)

LAX Mom said:


> RandyR,
> I assume there are no 1 bedroom & studios available for the same date that can be booked as a 2 bedroom unit?
> Hard to believe that there are no 2 bedroom units available for the entire season, which doesn't even start for 90 days?
> Do most people lock-off at this resort?
> ...



Though it seems bizarre, I think what you said could be very true in the end. Unless someone comes up with a copy of their contract that guarantee the usage of 1/52interest of two-beedroom during this seven-week floating season in inseparable manner, JMO a 1 bed and 1 studio may satisfy the contract obligation. In the end, tons of folks buying lockoff units for lockoff usage, concurrent, consecutive, separate, or exchange deposit, and mathematically this is the possibility...


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## klpca (Apr 12, 2013)

Perhaps it's time to make lemonade.

Take the two weeks and deposit them into II. Make sure that they're more than 60 days out to avoid flex change.

Using my 2014 DSVII studio (I realize that your trading power may be somewhat diminished at this point) I can see 5 two bedroom units at DSVII in August. Hopefully one of those units would work for you. Then you still have your one bedroom side to work with. There's lots you can do with that side. 

Or you could use those two deposits for something else and purchase a 2 bedroom DSVII getaway for $437 in August. 

Personally either one of these options would work better for me than having to expend a ton of effort to get one 2 bedroom villa in August.

That said, it sounds like someone at MVCI need some remedial math and customer service lessons.


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## bogey21 (Apr 12, 2013)

Not good.  You paid good money to buy your Week.  You pay $1,200 in annual MFs and there is no room at the Inn.  You are getting screwed.

George


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## RandyR (Apr 12, 2013)

I agree. This seems more and more to be the likely outcome. If so, at least it won't be a total loss. I realize I could have avoided all this angst by booking much earlier and that's a valuable lesson learned. But, it still frosts me that I've been subjected to (what appears to be) deception and false promises throughout this ordeal. I have to say it's the absolute worst customer service experience I think I've ever had (a fact I will be communicating to Marriott in the days ahead). Prior to this, I've been a Marriott "Raving Fan".


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## bogey21 (Apr 12, 2013)

Somewhere about 15 years ago I had issues with the way Marriott was treating me, a good customer with Marriott Weeks at 4 of their Resorts.  Fortunately I was able to sell, at a profit no less.  In today's market you probably don't have that option.

George

PS  Before they screwed me I was Marriott through and through going back to their Hot Shoppe days in suburban Philadelphia.


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## SueDonJ (Apr 12, 2013)

RandyR said:


> I agree. This seems more and more to be the likely outcome. If so, at least it won't be a total loss. I realize I could have avoided all this angst by booking much earlier and that's a valuable lesson learned. But, it still frosts me that I've been subjected to (what appears to be) deception and false promises throughout this ordeal. I have to say it's the absolute worst customer service experience I think I've ever had (a fact I will be communicating to Marriott in the days ahead). Prior to this, I've been a Marriott "Raving Fan".



I agree, the biggest problem here is that the few reps you spoke with didn't understand (or weren't able to clearly communicate) the booking limitations you were facing.  The latest rep didn't even understand that you weren't inside the 75-day window yet - there's no excuse for that!

TUGger klpca's suggestion appears to be the best one - book available studio and 1BR weeks and immediately deposit them to II.  Hopefully you'll match to at least one of the multiple 2BR units that s/he can see.

Good luck, and thanks for coming back to TUG to report your experience.


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## SueDonJ (Apr 12, 2013)

bogey21 said:


> Not good.  You paid good money to buy your Week.  You pay $1,200 in annual MFs and there is no room at the Inn.  You are getting screwed.
> 
> George



There is room at the inn, George, it's just that at this late date the only available rooms are studios and 1BR's during different weeks.  It's bad enough that a few Marriott reps made the situation worse by not understanding/communicating that fact - no need for TUGgers to do the same.


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## rsackett (Apr 12, 2013)

I just looked and II has LOTS of 2 bedroom DSVII August weeks.

Ray


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## pipet (Apr 12, 2013)

Well the better value all around is to get a studio & 1BR in II - so you can get 2 2BR weeks with your MF (plus 2 exchange fees if not in DC) instead of one, esp in the summer when demand is low.

However, I would be 100% POd based on principle. You tried to get a ressie far enough out from the beginning of blue season to get something (and you were not at all picky about week). If there really are no full weeks left, Marriott is playing fast & loose with the inventory before they are technically allowed to. I would think that in the case of people locking off, that they would still have to make sure there are some full weeks in the system till the 75 day period hits (cause as a previous post mentioned, locking off does not guarantee availability for other side - you can be told there is no 1br or studio availability for a certain week - why are they not doing this????).

I definitely would be escalating this up the Marriott ladder for the customer service issues alone, especially since at least one rep you talked with was either new and/or incompetent  for saying you were in 75 day period.


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## RandyR (Apr 12, 2013)

You all have been a tremendous source of information and support. I am grateful! Here's the latest:

I called Marriott this morning to speak to a supervisor, which I was able to do. I received the same story about availability being limited only to separate 1BR and LO units - no full Villas. I was told that because other owners had already reserved and split units, there were simply no full units left. I protested, again, that I "own" a share of a full 2BR unit and that Marriott can not deny me the use of that unit just because other owners "got there first". I understand that my options for week, check in, unit location, etc. can all be affected by their "first come/first served" policy - but not my access to a unit itself (as long as I call before the reservation deadline).  If that were the case, then it wouldn't matter when I called - even 360 days out -  I could be "out of luck" if enough other owners reserved their week ahead of me. I asked for documentation of the rule giving them the right to split my unit without my consent. I was told it would be difficult to retrieve the exact language but I should check my owner documents. In addition, the website says, "book early"
and "subject to availability". Again, true from the standpoint of "reservation options" but not whether or not I have the right to use my full unit at all.

To preserve at least some value from my investment, I took the advice that many of you gave and accepted the "split" reservation. (You will recall, however, that on 3 prior calls I was told there was "no availability whatsoever - so sorry bloke, you're out of luck.") So, persistence paid off at least a little. I also want to praise the Supervisor (Monica) for waiving the $80 fee, without me having to ask, since splitting the unit was involuntary. I was pleased with this gesture of fairness in what otherwise seems to be an arbitrary limitation of my rights as an owner. 

In the end, it may turn out to be a "better" deal through trades, etc., but I still want to track down the actual language that says they have the right to split my "owned" unit, at their option and for their convenience, whenever they choose. 

Again, thanks to all of you for your support and guidance!

Randy


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## dioxide45 (Apr 12, 2013)

I think it comes down to the fact that it is a floating week floating unit system. You have the right to a 2BR unit, but perhaps not the entire 2BR all at the same time. Even if there is no verbiage that indicates that they can split "your" unit, it doesn't mean they can't. The absence of verbiage doesn't really mean anything IMO.

I think you will find however, that locking off an exchanging through II will get you more benefit. You will likey be able to get two 2BR weeks for the one MF. Of course you will end up paying $417 a year for that privilege (two exchange fees at $124, an II membership fee at $89 and the lock off fee at $80).


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## bogey21 (Apr 12, 2013)

Looks like you learned a lot and with the help and expertise of Tuggers came out ok.  On the other hand, as a matter of fairness, I think not being able to get the 2 bedroom you bought stinks.

George


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## SueDonJ (Apr 12, 2013)

RandyR said:


> You all have been a tremendous source of information and support. I am grateful! Here's the latest:
> 
> I called Marriott this morning to speak to a supervisor, which I was able to do. I received the same story about availability being limited only to separate 1BR and LO units - no full Villas. I was told that because other owners had already reserved and split units, there were simply no full units left. I protested, again, that I "own" a share of a full 2BR unit and that Marriott can not deny me the use of that unit just because other owners "got there first". I understand that my options for week, check in, unit location, etc. can all be affected by their "first come/first served" policy - but not my access to a unit itself (as long as I call before the reservation deadline).  If that were the case, then it wouldn't matter when I called - even 360 days out -  I could be "out of luck" if enough other owners reserved their week ahead of me. I asked for documentation of the rule giving them the right to split my unit without my consent. I was told it would be difficult to retrieve the exact language but I should check my owner documents. In addition, the website says, "book early"
> and "subject to availability". Again, true from the standpoint of "reservation options" but not whether or not I have the right to use my full unit at all.
> ...



I'm glad TUG was able to help you understand the situation, anyway, even if the solution isn't ideal.  I'm curious, did the supervisor you spoke with offer to help you with II trades in any way?  I would think they'd be at least willing to try to coordinate a 3-way call to get you an immediate exchange considering that folks are reporting in this thread that there are 2BR's sitting in II.  If it wasn't offered, I'd consider calling back.  (Again, this puts the onus on you rather than on Marriott to take the responsibility for a reasonable customer-friendly solution.  As pretty much everyone has said in the thread none of this puts Marriott in a good light.  But if that's what it takes ...)

A couple notes about the document language that you're searching for related to lock-offs:

- Back in Nov '10 Marriott sent out emails to most owners titled "Reservation Procedures Updates" which I would expect will contain related language.  If you're still able to access that in your email account it might make your search easier.  If you don't still have access, begin your search with the "Reservation Procedures" supplement to either the Master Deed or Time Sharing Plan documents.

- {edited to add - As dioxide says above ...} Much of the document language is worded in such a way that Marriott is protected by what's not included, rather than owners being protected by what is in them.  (That's standard, not a black mark against Marriott IMO.)  I would guess that you may not find anything that says Marriott can offer lock-off components at their discretion, but rather will find something that says your usage may be limited to components according to the first-come-first-served nature of the Reservation Procedures.

Good luck, and thanks again for sharing your experience with TUG.


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## m61376 (Apr 12, 2013)

Although it may be poor consolation, in the end you may find that each half is able to nab a whole week since it's not peak season, and in a way, despite it being an unfair pain, you may have learnt a valuable lesson on how to maximize your usage. Of course, that in no way excuses Marriott's customer service, or lack thereof.

Post back when you get the trade for the week you want and then still have another deposit to play with.


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## cp73 (Apr 13, 2013)

RandyR said:


> I protested, again, that I "own" a share of a full 2BR unit and that Marriott can not deny me the use of that unit just because other owners "got there first".
> Randy



Glad to hear this has somewhat worked out for you Randy.

However, the only way that it would be possible for Marriott to guarantee that all owners get a full week in a 2 bedroom unit would be if they did not allow splitting of units into two week stays (1 bedrm & lockout) and no splitting of weeks into partial stays (4 and 3 day stays).

We can't have it every which way we want it. Take your pick which is better? A guaranteed stay in a 2 bedroom or the ability to split weeks and stays? The math with the number of units just wont allow it any other way in a sold out resort.


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## RandyR (Apr 14, 2013)

There's no question that I have learned through this process and I will certainly not let my reservation linger this long in the future. I still remain skeptical, however, about the inventory issue since I found numerous full 2BR villas available for rental directly through Marriott and because I have stayed at the half-full resort during my season on several recent occasions, so I'm more than confident the property is not fully booked. And while I presume that every part of the "Marriott" business is owned by some separate corporate entity that looks out only for its own interests, this experience has been disappointing nonetheless, given the upfront and annual investments we have all made as "owners". 

But, as you've said, this ordeal will more than likely result in a more favorable outcome overall, so the effort was not without some reward in the end. 

And, I've had the chance to get acquainted with an awesome TUG community, as well!

Randy


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## icydog (Apr 14, 2013)

Saintsfanfl said:


> You can indeed. It is a rather attractive option if you are flexible. Sell everything and book getaways. You can even get an AC sometimes for booking a getaway.




I do this ALL THE TIME.  I am a platinum II member so I pay the least amount for getaways and I've gotten some off season and shoulder season for less than 33% of maintenance fees. But you must be willing to travel in off seasons. 

I am going doing to Lakeshore Reserve next Sunday on a getaway.  It cost less than 1/2 of my regular maintenance fees there.  I am just concerned about where they'll put me since some resorts only put you in an identical unit to the one deposited.  In any case it's still a good deal.


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## Cmore (Apr 15, 2013)

I get the mathmatical possibilities of something not being available - but that should only be because of an "inventory management" error by MVW - unless the rules have changed.

I'll try to find the time to look into this further, but my intial reading was that split week and lock off users, were not guaranteed the balance of their units if they booked them at different times, and perhaps even the ability to do those options based on inventory.  However, all owners are (were ?) entitled to use of their full unit as long as they book outside of the 75 day window.  It would be interesting to know if MVW's stance is our "use rights" have become "first come, first served" and we don't care how far out you book, etc.   If so, then when did this happen,  who approved it, etc ??   

Very interesting....  

Anyway, glad you seem happy with the outcome.


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