# II unit size upgrade fees



## greenfrog (Jun 26, 2016)

Is this something new ? 

Playing around this morning on my II account, seeing what is available in exchange for my MGV units, I am finding unit size upgrade fee's. 

I can exchange my 1 bed MGV for other Marriott 2 beds for the normal exchange fee plus an extra £39 ($54). The same fee applies if I exchange my 2 bed for a 3 bed. The fee seems to apply to most exchanges but not all.

Has this been around for a while and I've missed it ? When was it announced ?


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## mdurette (Jun 26, 2016)

another thread has been started about this...it is not Marriott specific.  Looks system wide now.

http://tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=243492


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## MabelP (Jun 26, 2016)

It looks like it is going to cost me $99 to go from a studio to a one bedroom and $198 to go from a studio to a two bedroom.


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## greenfrog (Jun 26, 2016)

In fact the fee applies even if I trade my Marriott to a non-Marriott. 

£39 for a one bed upgrade (i.e. studio to 1 bed) or £78 (approx. $120) for a 2 bed upgrade (i.e. studio to 2 bed or 1 bed to 3 bed) 

This could be expensive !


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## hangloose (Jun 26, 2016)

This is very disappointing for those who exchange through II a lot. It appears this is required to be paid even for MVC enrolled weeks.  Anyone know the details or guidelines associated to this new charge.  Appears no added charge within flex change perhaps, only beyond that.


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## dougp26364 (Jun 26, 2016)

I suppose this was bound to happen. How many times have people gone into presentations and bragged about being able to upgrade unit size and have a salesman tell us it's coming to an end. Well, it hasn't come to an end but it appears to have become more expensive.

In 2015 I upgraded a unit size from 1 bedroom to 2 bedroom and another exchange from a studio to a 1 bedroom (that was a Marriott/Marriott exchange) and didn't see the fee on either exchange. This year(2016) I've already made a 2017 exchange where I've upgraded from a 1 bedroom to a 2 bedroom without an extra fee but, there's a big difference in resort quality and season as we're going from a high demand Las Vegas week at Marriott's Grand Chateau to a lower demand May week at Westgate Branson Lakes in Hollister (Branson) MO. 

Right now I still have a 2 bedroom unit on deposit but, that one won't be upgraded. I'm waiting to see if I can book a home week at one of our resorts in Breckenridge (tough week to get) or if I'll need to exchange back into our home resort (much easier to do) as in the past. Still, I'm not looking to upgrade the size of that week.

In the end I think I'd rather pay fee's to upgrade in size VS paying increased membership fee's or increased exchange fee's similar to what's gone on over at RCI.


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## dougp26364 (Jun 26, 2016)

greenfrog said:


> In fact the fee applies even if I trade my Marriott to a non-Marriott.
> 
> £39 for a one bed upgrade (i.e. studio to 1 bed) or £78 (approx. $120) for a 2 bed upgrade (i.e. studio to 2 bed or 1 bed to 3 bed)
> 
> This could be expensive !



But still cheaper than owning 2 one bedroom unit than a 2 bedroom lock-off unit where you exchange the studio for a larger size unit. I'll still be happy locking off my 3 bedroom unit into a studio and a 2 bedroom unit, then trading/upgrading size of the studio than paying MF's on two units.


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## dougp26364 (Jun 26, 2016)

This will likely change the landscape of exchanging if members elect to not pay the upgrade fee's. 

Right now when I want to do an instant online exchange, I typically see a LOT of studio units. I understand this because it's other owners doing the exact same thing I'm doing......stretching the value of their ownership by locking off and getting two vacations out of one ownership. That's worked exceptionally well for us when we've been able to upgrade a studio to a larger unit and, we've been able to do that every time with a little flexibility and effort.

Perhaps this will encourage members to deposit their entire unit rather than lock-off. Perhaps the availability of larger units will get better. I sort of doubt it as I anticipate most will complain about the size upgrade fee but will continue the same exchange practices and pay it anyway. I know I will.

Fortunately for us our usage and ownerships have evolved over the years. A decade ago I was locking off and trading up with nearly every exchange we made. At this point in time we have only one unit where we might lock-off and attempt to upgrade a studio to a larger unit.


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## Correcaminos (Jun 26, 2016)

*Driving to points?*

Will this encourage owners of "high-value" Marriott studios and one-bedrooms to elect Vacation Club points and then use these points to book an exchange with Marriott - instead of depositing in II?


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## dougp26364 (Jun 26, 2016)

Correcaminos said:


> Will this encourage owners of "high-value" Marriott studios and one-bedrooms to elect Vacation Club points and then use these points to book an exchange with Marriott - instead of depositing in II?



That's another possibility but, using points carries a built in upgrade fee if you will. I don't particularly see it as an incentive to use points over weeks exchanges.


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## rthib (Jun 26, 2016)

Correcaminos said:


> Will this encourage owners of "high-value" Marriott studios and one-bedrooms to elect Vacation Club points and then use these points to book an exchange with Marriott - instead of depositing in II?



I doubt it.
We enrolled our weeks back when it started because it was cheap.
One of the benefits was no other fees than the annual club fee.
For those of us with multiple lock-offs, was an easy decision as the fee is much less than all the lock-off and exchange fees.

So enrolled owners still pay no fees. I just checked and my studio trade up to a 2 bedroom is still fee free.

So this only impacts those who have non-enrolled weeks.


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## greenfrog (Jun 26, 2016)

It seems that there is no upgrade fee if the exchange is within 59 days. Everything else greater than 59 days seems to have the fee applied.


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## hangloose (Jun 26, 2016)

rthib said:


> I doubt it.
> We enrolled our weeks back when it started because it was cheap.
> One of the benefits was no other fees than the annual club fee.
> For those of us with multiple lock-offs, was an easy decision as the fee is much less than all the lock-off and exchange fees.
> ...



Hmm. My weeks are enrolled, but I still see the new upgrade fees if searching beyond the flexchange window?  Were you looking in flexchange?


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## turkel (Jun 26, 2016)

greenfrog said:


> It seems that there is no upgrade fee if the exchange is within 59 days. Everything else greater than 59 days seems to have the fee applied.



This was not true for me this morning. Used my SR studio to Aruba July 9 th and a $99 upgrade fee was listed for a non Marriott 1 bedroom. Computer error ?? I doubt it, but a deterrent for sure. 

Units I just looked at last night at Frenchman's cove for August now have a $198 upgrade fee. 

Interval just downgraded the value of timeshares tremendously in my opinion for me as I always trade and always upgrade.


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## Superchief (Jun 26, 2016)

Correcaminos said:


> Will this encourage owners of "high-value" Marriott studios and one-bedrooms to elect Vacation Club points and then use these points to book an exchange with Marriott - instead of depositing in II?



If Enrolled weeks do have to pay the fees, it will definitely impact my likelihood to deposit my lockoff resort units in II. My recent exchange experiences with II have deteriorated, so I would rather deposit my week for VC points than take my chances with II. Previously, I would typically lockoff MCV and exchange both for 1 or 2BR at other MVC resorts during non-prime. Now I will either use my week, rent it out, or convert to VC points.


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## dioxide45 (Jun 26, 2016)

Superchief said:


> If Enrolled weeks do have to pay the fees, it will definitely impact my likelihood to deposit my lockoff resort units in II. My recent exchange experiences with II have deteriorated, so I would rather deposit my week for VC points than take my chances with II. Previously, I would typically lockoff MCV and exchange both for 1 or 2BR at other MVC resorts during non-prime. Now I will either use my week, rent it out, or convert to VC points.



I took an upgrade from a 1BR to a 2BR all the way to the payment page for an enrolled Marriott week. The $59 upgrade fee is being charged on the exchange. The exchange fee does show a $0. This is the breakdown on the payment page. I am II platinum, so the fee is only $59 instead of $99 for regular members.

Your Transaction 
Exchange $0.00
Unit-Size Upgrade $59.00
Total: $59.00

This is a huge hit to the value of exchanging through II. Still cheaper to lock off and exchange both sides as $59 or whatever the fee is, is still cheaper than the MF on the other side of the lock off.


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## dioxide45 (Jun 26, 2016)

MALC9990 did report receiving a survey about this possibility about a month ago.

http://tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=242441&highlight=survey


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## klpca (Jun 26, 2016)

dougp26364 said:


> But still cheaper than owning 2 one bedroom unit than a 2 bedroom lock-off unit where you exchange the studio for a larger size unit. I'll still be happy locking off my 3 bedroom unit into a studio and a 2 bedroom unit, then trading/upgrading size of the studio than paying MF's on two units.



This is really how we need to look at it. As annoying as it is, we are still getting a good deal. In this game of exchanging, we are at the mercy of the exchange companies. We don't have to exchange, but if we do we have to play by the rules set by the exchange companies. They used to be pretty generous (sure - we'll take your little studio unit and give you a two bedroom - no problem!) but times are changing, unfortunately. In the big scheme of things, exchanging, even with the added fees, is still cheaper than renting for a lot of resorts.

Frankly I am more annoyed at the $80 lockoff fee charged by Marriott. That is ridiculous.


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## dioxide45 (Jun 26, 2016)

klpca said:


> This is really how we need to look at it. As annoying as it is, we are still getting a good deal. In this game of exchanging, we are at the mercy of the exchange companies. We don't have to exchange, but if we do we have to play by the rules set by the exchange companies. They used to be pretty generous (sure - we'll take your little studio unit and give you a two bedroom - no problem!) but times are changing, unfortunately. In the big scheme of things, exchanging, even with the added fees, is still cheaper than renting for a lot of resorts.
> 
> Frankly I am more annoyed at the $80 lockoff fee charged by Marriott. That is ridiculous.



The $80 is more justified than the new upgrade fee. The purpose of that $80 lock off fee is to reimburse the HOA for the added costs of housekeeping for two units instead of one. It isn't a pure profit center for Marriott like the upgrade fee is with II.


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## klpca (Jun 26, 2016)

dioxide45 said:


> The $80 is more justified than the new upgrade fee. The purpose of that $80 lock off fee is to reimburse the HOA for the added costs of housekeeping for two units instead of one. It isn't a pure profit center for Marriott like the upgrade fee is with II.



What added housekeeping cost? They are cleaning the same size unit either way. 

I don't pay a lock off fee at SDO.


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## turkel (Jun 26, 2016)

hangloose said:


> Hmm. My weeks are enrolled, but I still see the new upgrade fees if searching beyond the flexchange window?  Were you looking in flexchange?



My first search included June 30 thru November 18 th dates and even July weeks where showing an upgrade fee. I returned to interval international and just entered the next 59 days in my search. No fee.

Maybe it was a glitch. Still not happy with the fees. Wonder how long we will get flex change reprieve for. As my SO always says it's just another way for them to separate you from your money.

Looking forward to retirement and using the studios during flexchange if there is still no fee at that time!

If you put in an OGS for 2 resorts 1 with 1 bed units and 1 with only 2 bed units and used a 1 bed to search would you have to pay the fee upfront? And what if you eventually matched with only the 1 bed resort? Would you get a refund?


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## dioxide45 (Jun 26, 2016)

turkel said:


> My first search included June 30 thru November 18 th dates and even July weeks where showing an upgrade fee. I returned to interval international and just entered the next 59 days in my search. No fee.
> 
> Maybe it was a glitch. Still not happy with the fees. Wonder how long we will get flex change reprieve for. As my SO always says it's just another way for them to separate you from your money.
> 
> Looking forward to retirement and using the studios during flexchange if there is still no fee at that time!



Perhaps a glitch, or perhaps one on my end. I entered a two year date range and the upgrade fees were only showing up for dates outside the flexchange window.



> If you put in an OGS for 2 resorts 1 with 1 bed units and 1 with only 2 bed units and used a 1 bed to search would you have to pay the fee upfront? And what if you eventually matched with only the 1 bed resort? Would you get a refund?



Q. Will I get a chance to upgrade my unit size if I placed a pending request?

At this time, unit-size upgrades are only available with an instant exchange confirmation. If you placed a pending request and a larger unit becomes available, you may be contacted by an advisor from our Vacation Assistance Department, who will offer you the unit and collect the Unit-Size Upgrade fee.


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## tschwa2 (Jun 26, 2016)

dioxide45 said:


> The $80 is more justified than the new upgrade fee. The purpose of that $80 lock off fee is to reimburse the HOA for the added costs of housekeeping for two units instead of one. It isn't a pure profit center for Marriott like the upgrade fee is with II.





> What added housekeeping cost? They are cleaning the same size unit either way.
> 
> I don't pay a lock off fee at SDO.



It is the exact same unit whether locked off or not.  Starwood/Vistana charges more MF for a lock off but that is due to the extra area (lock offs are larger).  The only extra cost would be additional administrative costs to maintain 2 reservations vs one and two separate checkin/CC deposit, etc.

$80 is definitely on the high end.  Usually the fees range from $0-$50.
Marriott no only charges it to owners who lock off, they also charge it to points members when the book using points as reserving the studio and one bedroom requires more points than booking the single unit.


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## dioxide45 (Jun 26, 2016)

tschwa2 said:


> It is the exact same unit whether locked off or not.  Starwood/Vistana charges more MF for a lock off but that is due to the extra area (lock offs are larger).  The only extra cost would be additional administrative costs to maintain 2 reservations vs one and two separate checkin/CC deposit, etc.
> 
> $80 is definitely on the high end.  Usually the fees range from $0-$50.
> Marriott no only charges it to owners who lock off, they also charge it to points members when the book using points as reserving the studio and one bedroom requires more points than booking the single unit.



Even though they are still the same unit, there are added housekeeping costs. The checkin checkout dates may not line up right for both sides of the lock off. So you still need to send two people on two different days to clean a unit. Perhaps not worth $80, but there are added cleaning costs there. The same is true for short stay 3/4 reservations with Marriott. Similar fee applies due to the added cleaning costs.


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## tschwa2 (Jun 26, 2016)

For  weeks based system the check in/check out dates could and should match for the same unit numbers.  It would be much more efficient to assign certain units as check in Fri vs check in Sat, etc so the house keepers are mainly in the same buildings or areas on the same day rather than cleaning every 3rd unit through out the entire resort grounds.  Now with the points system and check in and out any day is different but that extra fee should be handled by those using the points.


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## klpca (Jun 26, 2016)

But when I lock off my unit and deposit both sides to II  the dates *do* line up.  I think that I agree with you on short stays.  It just frosts my Wheaties every time I pay it. Everyone has their hot button. 

I didn't mean to derail the discussion about the new fees. Sorry about that guys. 

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


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## disneymom1 (Jun 26, 2016)

I agree - I understand the rationale for a lock off fee, but $80 seems a bit on the high side.   That fee is not going away.

So the unit upgrade fee is $99 from a studio to a one bedroom (and I assume a 1 bedroom to a two bedroom?).  It is $199 for a studio to a one bedroom?  Platinum members it is $59 for a single upgrade - what is it for a double upgrade?  I wasn't planning to renew my platinum membership, but now it may be worth it.


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## Sugarcubesea (Jun 26, 2016)

I will no longer be purchasing e-plus as there will be no benefit.


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## dioxide45 (Jun 26, 2016)

disneymom1 said:


> I agree - I understand the rationale for a lock off fee, but $80 seems a bit on the high side.   That fee is not going away.
> 
> So the unit upgrade fee is $99 from a studio to a one bedroom (and I assume a 1 bedroom to a two bedroom?).  It is $199 for a studio to a one bedroom?  Platinum members it is $59 for a single upgrade - what is it for a double upgrade?  I wasn't planning to renew my platinum membership, but now it may be worth it.



It is $99 for each step up. So if you go from a studio to a 2BR, it is $198. $99x2. Same is true for platinum members except their fee is only $59 for each step up. $118 to go from a studio to 2BR for a platinum member.


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## VacationForever (Jun 26, 2016)

Maybe it is impulsive, but reading about the II unit size upgrade fee, we are going to get rid of both our Marriott weeks.  I was already contemplating in selling one back and now with this, we will get rid of both.  

We will need to also make a decision on our VSE trader.  We will definitely will keep VSE with Star Options and our Worldmark.  Anything that reduces trading fee will be in our future.


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## GregT (Jun 26, 2016)

All,

I think this is only for Instant Exchanges?  I just tried to do a Request First with a phantom studio reservation, and selected only properties with 2BR units, and it priced the exchanges at $129.  There may still be up-trading possibilities, but this is indeed a restriction on how people are finding the up-trades.  Bulk banks just got more expensive, and I think this fee will force more people to accept like-for-like versus the bonanza of the up-trade.

Interesting move by Interval, and they are starting to look like the much more expensive RCI.   RCI's exchange fees today are more than $200, and Interval just found a way to bring that equal.  

My speculation is that this will 1) increase the availability of larger units and 2) put further pressure on Marriott timeshare pricing as owners sell out of frustration and feeling that this is the straw that broke the camel's economic back.

I'm not much of an II Marriott trader, having only a single week that I've used OGS for.  Do most people up-trade through instant exchange, and if so, could they accomplish the same goal through OGS, if that remains a loophole?

Best,

Greg


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## tschwa2 (Jun 26, 2016)

My guess, is the II search engine was never programmed to know which resorts only have 2 br units.  This is from the FAQ.



> Q. Will I get a chance to upgrade my unit size if I placed a pending request?
> 
> At this time, unit-size upgrades are only available with an instant exchange confirmation. If you placed a pending request and a larger unit becomes available, you may be contacted by an advisor from our Vacation Assistance Department, who will offer you the unit and collect the Unit-Size Upgrade fee.



So from that quote it seems like an OGS will not automatch you to a larger unit.  You will get a call and pay the upgrade fee if you want it.  Seems like a lot more work and much less efficient way to search.


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## kds4 (Jun 26, 2016)

We are principally 'uptraders' with II. So, this was a slap in the face to us. I already pay an annual membership fee, and a transaction fee every time I exercise that membership. Now, they want me to pay a 3rd fee that for a Studio to 3BR uptrade will drive my exchange fee from $129 to over $300 ... That is offensive. 

I get that I can still make like for like exchanges at current rates. I get that I can make a flexchange uptrade at current rates, (assuming that time frame works for us in the future). I get that II may just be doing/charging what others (RCI) already are. Etc., Etc., Etc.

Unfortunately, there is no 'spin' that is going to change the reality that II is trying to collect more than twice as much from me to make the same exchanges that I have been making for the past 6 years of my membership. And since they are not making this change due to some increase in 'business costs', it smacks of the worst form of motive ... Greed. 

I hope owners will refuse to pay this new 'profit' fee. I certainly will be, assuming we choose to renew our membership and not just exchange internally through Marriott via the DC points system or Florida Club.

If II had a room, I would send them to it so they can think about what they have done.


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## kds4 (Jun 26, 2016)

Besides sharing my 'warm' thoughts for II with their Customer Service Department, I checked the community forums on II. I wanted to add to the current discussion there about the new fee. 

Hmmm. Seems the Community Forums are not working right now...

_"We are unable to access Community at this time. Please try again later. We apologize for any inconvenience this may cause."_

Must be the rush of all the members anxious to pay the new fee has overloaded their site ...


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## klpca (Jun 26, 2016)

GregT said:


> All,
> 
> I think this is only for Instant Exchanges?  I just tried to do a Request First with a phantom studio reservation, and selected only properties with 2BR units, and it priced the exchanges at $129.  There may still be up-trading possibilities, but this is indeed a restriction on how people are finding the up-trades.  Bulk banks just got more expensive, and I think this fee will force more people to accept like-for-like versus the bonanza of the up-trade.
> 
> ...



I think that you will get a call and need to approve the upgrade. I never answer the calls from II - so for me this would add an additional layer or irritation. If only they kept the calls to necessary calls instead of the constant barrage of "sales/upgrade" calls.

I agree with you that this should increase the inventory of larger units. They have suddenly become less attractive to folks who don't really need them. I think that one bedroom units will become much more popular. It's probably worth a $59 upgrade from a studio unit using an OGS or instant exchange. Maybe not so much when using an e-plus exchange.

I just sold my annual Marriott and replaced it with an EOY because Marriott's are just too expensive for frequent trading. For once, I feel like I did the right thing. I have also purchased a non-Marriott two bedroom with low MF that will be a nice trader in II now. I won't have preference, but we choose mostly for location and Marriott doesn't always have the location that we prefer.

For me, Interval is no longer the clear leader. I like the overall quality of their inventory compared to RCI but since they are comparable on price, it opens up a lot of other choices with the independent exchange companies that 1) don't charge annual membership fees or guest certificates and 2) have cheaper exchange fees. I am particularly interested in GPX and will probably see if they will accept more of my independent resorts, and maybe even my Marriott if I decide to trade.


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## turkel (Jun 26, 2016)

kds4 said:


> We are principally 'uptraders' with II. So, this was a slap in the face to us. I already pay an annual membership fee, and a transaction fee every time I exercise that membership. Now, they want me to pay a 3rd fee that for a Studio to 3BR uptrade will drive my exchange fee from $129 to over $300 ... That is offensive.
> 
> I get that I can still make like for like exchanges at current rates. I get that I can make a flexchange uptrade at current rates, (assuming that time frame works for us in the future). I get that II may just be doing/charging what others (RCI) already are. Etc., Etc., Etc.
> 
> ...



Ditto.

I will admit to completing an instant exchange to a 2 bed when I didn't need a 2 bedroom but only because that's all that was available. Case in point SO and I went to Ocean Point in April traded my 1 bed for a 2 bed only the 2 of us went. Even then I would have rather traded my studio for a 1 bedroom. There was not one available. 

Got food poisoning while there was grateful for bedroom #2. 

Marriott resorts are nicer than most. There is a reason we pay those higher fees. Since the DC program decreased deposits I now see resorts I didn't see before and don't necessarily consider a like exchange. Now II wants me to pay to downgrade to a lesser resort if the unit size is bigger.


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## dioxide45 (Jun 26, 2016)

GregT said:


> All,
> 
> I think this is only for Instant Exchanges?  I just tried to do a Request First with a phantom studio reservation, and selected only properties with 2BR units, and it priced the exchanges at $129.  There may still be up-trading possibilities, but this is indeed a restriction on how people are finding the up-trades.  Bulk banks just got more expensive, and I think this fee will force more people to accept like-for-like versus the bonanza of the up-trade.
> 
> ...



Greg,

This is definitively a big hit to the unerolled or post 6/20/2010 resale Marriott unit. It just about doubles the cost of exchanging in II. We may even start considering using our weeks in DC points now given the added cost of II.


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## dioxide45 (Jun 26, 2016)

kds4 said:


> Besides sharing my 'warm' thoughts for II with their Customer Service Department, I checked the community forums on II. I wanted to add to the current discussion there about the new fee.
> 
> Hmmm. Seems the Community Forums are not working right now...
> 
> ...



It must have just been down temporarily. I was reading similar discussion over there this morning and there is what is now a 59 post thread on the subject.


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## Superchief (Jun 26, 2016)

I think this will greatly decrease the availability of 1BR units because fewer enrolled MVC owners will lockoff and deposit their weeks. If I actually had to pay for my II membership, I would drop it. I can now get better value and flexibility by converting my weeks to VC points. If I only need a 1BR, I can use the extra points (from studio) to upgrade view or season, or spend a couple of nights at an Urban location.

When using points, I've learned to cut my stay to 6 nights to avoid paying the F&Sa point premium. Marriott hotels often have reasonable weekend rates, so I sometimes stay at an airport hotel. As an example, when we visit MCV next March, it would cost 1040 pts for 2BR, or 700 for 1BR for Fr night. However, I can stay at Marriott airport for $145 for the night and turn my rental in the night before. I'm just learning how to work the system to my advantage (and avoid skim).


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## Big Matt (Jun 27, 2016)

This will pass just like every other fee increase does.  The reason this is so offensive is because it is new and a fairly high amount.  

My guess is that people will overreact and put more 2 and 3 BR units on deposit.  IMO this is great news for people wanting those units who are willing to trade "like" for "like".  

Trading up should be easier too since more larger units will be deposited.  I'm noodling on whether this is better for me or not.  

I will bet that we will soon see another membership level or a change for Platinum that raises the annual fee and gives these upgrade fees for free.  Think about it.  Roll it out and then make it "free" for a higher membership fee.


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## Big Matt (Jun 27, 2016)

I stay 5 nights and will only stay Sunday to Thursday with my points.  

I use Marriott Rewards points to stay in a hotel or just pay the rack rate to fill in the gaps if I want a week long vacation.  I've stayed Sunday-Thurs in a timeshare, paid for fri-sat, and then stayed another Sun-Thurs for a 12 day vacation.  It cost me a lot less per day than a traditional 7 day vacation.



Superchief said:


> I think this will greatly decrease the availability of 1BR units because fewer enrolled MVC owners will lockoff and deposit their weeks. If I actually had to pay for my II membership, I would drop it. I can now get better value and flexibility by converting my weeks to VC points. If I only need a 1BR, I can use the extra points (from studio) to upgrade view or season, or spend a couple of nights at an Urban location.
> 
> When using points, I've learned to cut my stay to 6 nights to avoid paying the F&Sa point premium. Marriott hotels often have reasonable weekend rates, so I sometimes stay at an airport hotel. As an example, when we visit MCV next March, it would cost 1040 pts for 2BR, or 700 for 1BR for Fr night. However, I can stay at Marriott airport for $145 for the night and turn my rental in the night before. I'm just learning how to work the system to my advantage (and avoid skim).


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## hangloose (Jun 27, 2016)

Big Matt said:


> I will bet that we will soon see another membership level or a change for Platinum that raises the annual fee and gives these upgrade fees for free.  Think about it.  Roll it out and then make it "free" for a higher membership fee.



I could certainly see this happening.  While I don't have a Gold or Platinum II account,  I did initially look to see if these upgrade fees were free with a higher II membership level in case the cost of increased membership level could offset these upgrade fees if doing multiple exchanges annually.  Appear not at least at this point. Only a discount.

I could also see II giving sales/promotions on the "upgrade fee" when they are overstocked in a certain time period or certain location/resort.


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## Saintsfanfl (Jun 27, 2016)

dioxide45 said:


> Greg,
> 
> This is definitively a big hit to the unerolled or post 6/20/2010 resale Marriott unit. It just about doubles the cost of exchanging in II. We may even start considering using our weeks in DC points now given the added cost of II.



But depending on what is desired it can still be far cheaper than buying and using regular DC points. Goes without saying I suppose.


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## Mr. Vker (Jun 27, 2016)

deleted.....


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## kds4 (Jun 27, 2016)

Well, I got the following reply from II Customer Service in response to my email regarding this new fee.

_"... it does state in our terms and conditions that fees can be changed and implemented at any time. II is trying to streamline into an equal unit size exchange inventory system. We want our members who deposit their 2 BR units to be able to exchange into another 2BR unit which at this time was becoming more and more difficult for those members to do ..."_

Not sure I am buying that this was done to 'protect' 2BR owners who could not get like for like exchanges. Anyone else smell fish?


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## TheTimeTraveler (Jun 27, 2016)

kds4 said:


> Well, I got the following reply from II Customer Service in response to my email regarding this new fee.
> 
> _"... it does state in our terms and conditions that fees can be changed and implemented at any time. II is trying to streamline into an equal unit size exchange inventory system. We want our members who deposit their 2 BR units to be able to exchange into another 2BR unit which at this time was becoming more and more difficult for those members to do ..."_
> 
> Not sure I am buying that this was done to 'protect' 2BR owners who could not get like for like exchanges. Anyone else smell fish?






Trust me, it's all about the bottom line (i.e. profits).




.


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## tschwa2 (Jun 27, 2016)

The way to protect the larger unit owners would be to program the site so that only equal size units showed for instant exchanges and that OGS only matched with the same size or smaller.  By initiating the fee you are letting smaller unit owners take larger units that they couldn't get before.  More large inventory can now be grabbed by cheaper, smaller, less desirable units as long as they pay an extra fee.  No protection at all.


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## drlee (Jun 27, 2016)

*Owner services response on new unit upgrade fee*

Thank you for your email.  I have contacted Interval International on your behalf to get the answers to your questions.  They have shared that they started a pay per upgrade option.  What it does is allow a member the chance to upgrade from the size villa they have deposited to the largest villa possible.  There is an upgrade charge for each upgrade. For example, a studio villa upgraded to a two bedroom villa would require two upgrades.

Marriott Vacation Club owners who are enrolled will be required to pay the upgrade fee.  

Please let me know if you have any additional questions as I am more than happy to assist you.

Best regards,


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## JIMinNC (Jun 27, 2016)

kds4 said:


> _"... it does state in our terms and conditions that fees can be changed and implemented at any time. II is trying to streamline into an equal unit size exchange inventory system. We want our members who deposit their 2 BR units to be able to exchange into another 2BR unit which at this time was becoming more and more difficult for those members to do ..."_
> 
> Not sure I am buying that this was done to 'protect' 2BR owners who could not get like for like exchanges. Anyone else smell fish?



I'm not an experienced II trader, but as I understand the way the business model works, this explanation actually makes a lot of sense. Thinking about it logically, if lots of people were splitting their 2BR lock-offs into a 1BR and a studio, and this new fee reduces the number of folks who opt to split their units, the supply of 2BR units in the system should increase.



tschwa2 said:


> The way to protect the larger unit owners would be to program the site so that only equal size units showed for instant exchanges and that OGS only matched with the same size or smaller.  By initiating the fee you are letting smaller unit owners take larger units that they couldn't get before.  More large inventory can now be grabbed by cheaper, smaller, less desirable units as long as they pay an extra fee.  No protection at all.



But programming the system this way would TOTALLY eliminate the ability for anyone to upgrade unit size. But by implementing the fee, you basically let the market decide. The option is still there, but's there's a fee that may discourage unit splitting, increasing the supply of 2BR units for trade, without totally eliminating the option. 

I guess for those who have become accustomed to free regular studio for 1BR or 2BR upgrades this new business model may be annoying, but as an outsider to the upgrade model looking in, this seems like a somewhat more equitable/fair approach.


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## klpca (Jun 27, 2016)

JIMinNC said:


> I guess for those who have become accustomed to free regular studio for 1BR or 2BR upgrades this new business model may be annoying, but as an outsider to the upgrade model looking in, this seems like a somewhat more equitable/fair approach.



I've only been timesharing since 2011 so my initial expectations were different than those of the experienced exchangers. I couldn't believe it when I was told that I could lock off my two bedroom and exchange it for two 2-bedroom units. It made no sense to me, but I figured that I would play along. Now, five years later, it feels like they are taking away a treasured perk, but it is more logical. Except the part where they make you pay. Logical would be like-for-like. But money talks.


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## disneymom1 (Jun 27, 2016)

My experience trading is limited.  I have traded my platinum prime week studio for a 2 bedroom in gold season.  I gave up a better week/smaller unit for a less desired week/larger unit.  I think my trade was allowed because the trading power was similar, which is why I was able to match the trade in the first place.  I am not understanding what the fee is for?    Have members been able to trade platinum season studios for platinum 2 bedroom units?

Smells like a money grab.


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## tschwa2 (Jun 27, 2016)

Studios have uptraded rather poorly in the past.  For instant exchanges it seemed like 1 br units exchanged nearly the same as a 2 br unit.  So a 1 br platinum could get a 2 br platinum if it were available for instant exchange.  Even a 1 br gold could exchange into a 2 br and even 3br platinum in areas like Williamsburg, and Orlando and Branson if there was enough inventory.


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## PamMo (Jun 27, 2016)

With ever increasing MF's, property taxes, club, and trading fees, timesharing has become much less attractive. We primarily own where we want to vacation, but are starting to think it makes more sense to sell/give away ALL of our weeks and become renters. It was nice to feel like we "won" the game once in awhile, but it's getting much harder.


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## Saintsfanfl (Jun 27, 2016)

PamMo said:


> With ever increasing MF's, property taxes, club, and trading fees, timesharing has become much less attractive. We primarily own where we want to vacation, but are starting to think it makes more sense to sell/give away ALL of our weeks and become renters. It was nice to feel like we "won" the game once in awhile, but it's getting much harder.



I totally agree with this. There is far less value in premium weeks like Marriott and it will only decrease further.


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## Marathoner (Jun 27, 2016)

While I understand the natural reaction that people are expressing in this thread, it also seems like a lot of people have a sense of entitlement around continuing to be able to trade a studio for a 1 bedroom or 2 bedroom.  At the end of the day, if the $99 per upgrade is not worth it, you should absolutely vote with your pocketbook and not do the trade.

II is a corporation.  They will only revert back to their prior methodology if they see a revenue decline.  The fact that II is looking to increase their profit margins seems to be making people mad when this type of action is what most companies are doing.  I expect that we will all adapt and adjust.  We will figure out new ways to get maximum value out of our timeshares and II exchanges.  It is somewhat ludicrous to read that some people will stop exchanging or use RCI.  Go ahead and do it if that creates more value for you, but I suspect that people will pay the fee because the value in exchanging into a Marriott or Hilton or Hyatt and upgrading from 1 BR to 2 BR is still a great deal even with the additional fee.

Go ahead and vent since it is likely cathartic and somewhat entertaining to read.  But lets not get carried away and say that II has suddenly lost huge value simply because of a new fee.


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## JIMinNC (Jun 27, 2016)

I'm not sure what I'm missing, but to me, the statements that this dramatically changes the economic model or causes someone to want to sell their units seems a bit overdone.

Most Marriott maintenance fees for 2BR or 3BR units are $1200 to $1500 per year. This change adds $99 for a one level upgrade. So instead of getting two 7 night trades for $85 to $107 per night, the cost becomes $92 to $114 per night. It's an increase, yes, but I don't see how it totally changes the economic model of using a lock-off to get two-for-one trades.


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## dioxide45 (Jun 27, 2016)

tschwa2 said:


> The way to protect the larger unit owners would be to program the site so that only equal size units showed for instant exchanges and that OGS only matched with the same size or smaller.  By initiating the fee you are letting smaller unit owners take larger units that they couldn't get before.  More large inventory can now be grabbed by cheaper, smaller, less desirable units as long as they pay an extra fee.  No protection at all.



I would agree. The explanation given is horse hockey. Over in the II Community forums, many have reported that their studios can see a lot more inventory. That means that people that were not previously able to make an exchange, can now do so by simply paying an upgrade fee. It isn't doing anything to protect owners of larger units. It is only helping to increase IIs profits. If they had left the demand model the same and units after 6/25 saw the same units as those before, then I would buy that they are protecting owners of larger units. But that isn't the case. I suspect we will see even lower numbers of 1BR and 2BR units.

This change does a lot to help people at independent properties with low MFs that lock off. It certainly isn't a big benefit to those with Marriott ownership in II that lock off. Those units can see just about the same thing today that we could see before the change, now just with the added fee for larger units.

If this change really does lead to increased inventory in II for larger units, I am actually okay with paying the fee to get an upgrade further out than a few months from checkin. I fear that won't be the case. Units that couldn't see the bigger units before can see them now and just upgrade for the fee. Many people now suspect that II was holding back on allowing the studios to see a lot of larger inventory for the last year or so in anticipation of this change. I guess it will take about six months or so to see how the inventory situation plays out.


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## dioxide45 (Jun 27, 2016)

JIMinNC said:


> I'm not sure what I'm missing, but to me, the statements that this dramatically changes the economic model or causes someone to want to sell their units seems a bit overdone.
> 
> Most Marriott maintenance fees for 2BR or 3BR units are $1200 to $1500 per year. This change adds $99 for a one level upgrade. So instead of getting two 7 night trades for $85 to $107 per night, the cost becomes $92 to $114 per night. It's an increase, yes, but I don't see how it totally changes the economic model of using a lock-off to get two-for-one trades.



The upgrade fee works out to anywhere from $14 per night up to $44 per night, depending on how many steps up you do. So not sure why you are only adding $7 a night for the added cost. For Gold and Platinum II members, the fee is a little less, though you also have to pay to upgrade to those levels. I suspect the fee to upgrade to those levels will go up now that they get a pretty good discount on the upgrade fees.

Does it really change the whole exchange economic model. To an extent, I think it does if you were used to upgrading a 2BR lock off in to two 2BR units. What used to cost about $268 in the past now costs $565 today. That is a 90% increase in their exchange fees, literally overnight!

Think about the system as it is currently implemented. A 1BR Hawaii owner books a June week for exchange. They deposit it in to II. That owner gets a 2BR Orlando week in September. It cost them $134+99=$233. That Orlando owner uses their 2BR to exchange in to that same 1BR Hawaii week the other owner gave up. They get the week even Steven. No reimbursement for the downgrade.

If II really wanted to protect owners of 2BR and larger units, they would institute some kind of credit system. Downgrade and perhaps get the upgrade fee as a credit to use toward a later upgrade. Perhaps even knock $10 off the amount they credit to give II something. At least it would be something and it would help to spur more 2BR deposits in to II.


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## JIMinNC (Jun 27, 2016)

dioxide45 said:


> The upgrade fee works out to anywhere from $14 per night up to $44 per night, depending on how many steps up you do. So not sure why you are only adding $7 a night for the added cost. For Gold and Platinum II members, the fee is a little less, though you also have to pay to upgrade to those levels. I suspect the fee to upgrade to those levels will go up now that they get a pretty good discount on the upgrade fees.



Here's were I got the $7 increase, maybe I'm missing something since I've never owned a lock-off and am only now trying our first weeks system trade with an ongoing search:

Before fee was implemented: MF = $1400; split the lock-off and get 14 nights; That's $100/night for two weeks of lodging

After fee was implemented: MF=$1400; split the lock-off and get 14 nights; Plus new upgrade fee = $99; Total cost of two weeks = $1499; That's $107/night.

(Obviously, a two level upgrade would be $1598 or $114/night, but my impression was that in the previous world before the fee, two-step upgrades were less frequent than one step.)

So I'm not looking at just the exchange fees, I'm looking at the total cost of the trips that can be received from the ownership. Also, if the owner is enrolled, I assume the only fee is the upgrade fee (plus the MF, of course).


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## Superchief (Jun 27, 2016)

*MVC is Probably Happy*

I think MVC is happy with this change. They no longer will have to hear potential point buyers tell them about their studio exchanges for 2BR villas. As an enrolled owner with more weeks than I can use, the VC point conversion for my weeks provide a lot more options than II exchanges, and don't incur additional fees. I will likely not make any more II deposits in the future.

The fact that II doesn't take into consideration the resort or season being exchanged is the deal killer for me. In the past, I typically only tried to exchange studio for 1 or 2BR for lower demand resorts or weeks. In many cases, the rental value of a studio at a high demand resort/week was comparable for a 2BR at a lower demand resort/week. This isn't taken into consideration.


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## kds4 (Jun 27, 2016)

Marathoner said:


> Go ahead and vent since it is likely cathartic and somewhat entertaining to read.  But lets not get carried away and say that II has suddenly lost huge value simply because of a new fee.



How much value has been lost depends on how an owner uses their II membership and the reasons why they joined in the first place. In the 6 years we have been II members, we have always traded from Marriott to Marriott and the reason we have been doing it through II has been the ability to 'uptrade'. If I wanted to make like for like exchanges, I could just do that internally with Marriott's DC program or Florida Club and not even need an II membership.

I have no problem paying II a $129 exchange fee for a Studio to 3BR. However, I will not pay $306 ($129+$177 Upgrade Fee) per exchange which is what II now wants to charge me to do the same thing. 

For us, II just killed most of it's value (unless a convenient flex-change opportunity to uptrade arises). Since our current membership is pre-paid for a few more years, we'll see what happens. 

For that amount of money, I would just assume save my week and shop for a getaway instead (which denies II another deposit and 2 potential exchange fees they could have collected from me and the member who makes an exchange into my deposited unit.

Your mileage may vary.


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## dioxide45 (Jun 27, 2016)

JIMinNC said:


> Here's were I got the $7 increase, maybe I'm missing something since I've never owned a lock-off and am only now trying our first weeks system trade with an ongoing search:
> 
> Before fee was implemented: MF = $1400; split the lock-off and get 14 nights; That's $100/night for two weeks of lodging
> 
> ...



You are only applying the upgrade cost to one of the weeks. You want to upgrade all 14 of those nights, you have to pay two of the $99 fees. Not just one. If you are using one of the sides of the lock off for home use, then yes, the upgrade fee is only $7 a night, but you are still only upgrading one of those weeks. So you should still be dividing it by seven nights.


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## kds4 (Jun 27, 2016)

dioxide45 said:


> The upgrade fee works out to anywhere from $14 per night up to $44 per night, depending on how many steps up you do. So not sure why you are only adding $7 a night for the added cost. For Gold and Platinum II members, the fee is a little less, though you also have to pay to upgrade to those levels. I suspect the fee to upgrade to those levels will go up now that they get a pretty good discount on the upgrade fees.
> 
> Does it really change the whole exchange economic model. To an extent, I think it does if you were used to upgrading a 2BR lock off in to two 2BR units. What used to cost about $268 in the past now costs $565 today. That is a 90% increase in their exchange fees, literally overnight!
> 
> ...



This is the point I was trying to make. For me, the new fee discourages me from depositing my weeks with II. I have enough already on deposit for the next couple of years to play with and see if the no fee flexchange uptrade option is viable, but if it's not then I don't expect to be making any more deposits going forward (and we were depositing 2BR and 3BR units).


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## kds4 (Jun 27, 2016)

Superchief said:


> I think MVC is happy with this change. They no longer will have to hear potential point buyers tell them about their studio exchanges for 2BR villas.



I agree. This will likely drive us straight back into the arms of Marriott, which is where they prefer owners go for internal exchanges anyway instead of II. 

I hope MVCI sends II a 'Thank-You' note at least.


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## JIMinNC (Jun 27, 2016)

dioxide45 said:


> You are only applying the upgrade cost to one of the weeks. You want to upgrade all 14 of those nights, you have to pay two of the $99 fees. Not just one. If you are using one of the sides of the lock off for home use, then yes, the upgrade fee is only $7 a night, but you are still only upgrading one of those weeks. So you should still be dividing it by seven nights.



But, if you split a 2BR lock-off into a 1BR and a studio; and traded for two 1BR units, you would only pay $99 once. So in that case you're still getting two trades for $1499 ($107/nt). I agree if you upgrade both parts of the unit into a 2BR and a 1BR the cost rises to $1598 ($114/nt). As you've noted, it's even higher if you do more than a one-level upgrade, so I agree that it's a range of cost differentials depending on how many upgrades you do and how many steps you take up.

Still, when you factor in the fully-loaded cost, including the MF, while the cost does go up, the overall economics still seems relatively attractive. The economics are not as good as before the change, but it doesn't seem to me that this one change has destroyed the value of trading lock-offs - if you consider the total costs of the vacations you get.

I do agree that since there is no corresponding credit for a down-trade, it's sort of a one way street, but this isn't the first change or fee to have that characteristic. That is one thing I like about the Point system - you "pay" for up-trades and get the benefit of taking a down-trade.


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## hangloose (Jun 27, 2016)

JIMinNC said:


> I'm not sure what I'm missing, but to me, the statements that this dramatically changes the economic model or causes someone to want to sell their units seems a bit overdone.
> 
> Most Marriott maintenance fees for 2BR or 3BR units are $1200 to $1500 per year. This change adds $99 for a one level upgrade. So instead of getting two 7 night trades for $85 to $107 per night, the cost becomes $92 to $114 per night. It's an increase, yes, but I don't see how it totally changes the economic model of using a lock-off to get two-for-one trades.



I think there are many different things that play into what level of impact the new 'upgrade level' fees have on an individual MVC owner.  Some it may have little to no impact based on their usage patterns, while others it may have a larger impact.  Some may say this is more 'fair', while others may say 'unfair'.  I can see both sides.   For me personally, it will certainly change how I have been using my weeks in past years....not towards the positive.

I own two 2-bedroom Marriott Grande Vista weeks.  Since enrolling in the DC Pts program, we have been locking off and exchanging through II without additional fees (lock-off, exchange, etc).  This has really made our annual maintenance fees/club dues (~$2,700 total for both weeks) go a long way from a value perspective.  Very attractive to us.

In the past three years, we have had 9 II exchanges into other MVC resorts with 13 total 'upgrade levels'.   Not one of my exchanges was for a same size villa.  Some were exchanging a studio into a 3-bedroom (3 upgrade levels).   While some may say that is unfair, I would say that hard work paid off in fair trades based on villa size, season, and availability.  As an enrolled owner with no additional exchange fees beyond club dues, this would have costed me $1,287 more or $144 per exchange.  If I do 4 exchanges in 1 year, that is on average $576 more at the same annual rate.   It will not break the bank, but is not an insignificant amount either.  My II exchanges will still provide solid value, just not as great of a bargain as before.  Others may be better off or worse than me, but I expect many usage patterns to change based on this 'upgrade fee'...especially for those who aren't enrolled and still paying II membership, lock-off fees, exchange fees, and now upgrade fees.


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## JIMinNC (Jun 27, 2016)

dioxide45 said:


> Does it really change the whole exchange economic model. To an extent, I think it does if you were used to upgrading a 2BR lock off in to two 2BR units. What used to cost about $268 in the past now costs $565 today. That is a 90% increase in their exchange fees, literally overnight!



As you say, your example is a 90% increase in the just exchange fees, but I think that paints an incomplete picture. I think the appropriate way to look at it is what does that lodging actually cost you - the total cost including maintenance fees.

Let's say that your 2BR lock-off has a maintenance fee of about $1300. You said upgrading to two 2BR units previously cost $268 (I assume you are assuming a non-enrolled owner). That means the two vacations used to cost you $1568. After the fees, using your new cost of $565, the total cost goes up to $1865. Going from $1568 to $1865 is only a 19% increase in the cost. That's the real impact of the change on your bottom line lodging cost. 

A 19% increase isn't insignificant, of course, but does such an increase really alter the overall financial viability to the point that trading no longer makes sense? If I owned a lock-off and had been used to getting it all for free, I would probably grumble about the fee too, but to me, it doesn't really seem to be THAT big of a deal.


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## JIMinNC (Jun 27, 2016)

hangloose said:


> I think there are many different things that play into what level of impact the new 'upgrade level' fees have on an individual MVC owner.  Some it may have little to no impact based on their usage patterns, while others it may have a larger impact.  Some may say this is more 'fair', while others may say 'unfair'.  I can see both sides.   For me personally, it will certainly change how I have been using my weeks in past years....not towards the positive.
> 
> I own two 2-bedroom Marriott Grande Vista weeks.  Since enrolling in the DC Pts program, we have been locking off and exchanging through II without additional fees (lock-off, exchange, etc).  This has really made our annual maintenance fees/club dues (~$2,700 total for both weeks) go a long way from a value perspective.  Very attractive to us.
> 
> In the past three years, we have had 9 II exchanges into other MVC resorts with 13 total 'upgrade levels'.   Not one of my exchanges was for a same size villa.  Some were exchanging a studio into a 3-bedroom (3 upgrade levels).   While some may say that is unfair, I would say that hard work paid off in fair trades based on villa size, season, and availability.  As an enrolled owner with no additional exchange fees beyond club dues, this would have costed me $1,287 more or $144 per exchange.  If I do 4 exchanges in 1 year, that is on average $576 more at the same annual rate.   It will not break the bank, but is not an insignificant amount either.  My II exchanges will still provide solid value, just not as great of a bargain as before.  Others may be better off or worse than me, but I expect many usage patterns to change based on this 'upgrade fee'...especially for those who aren't enrolled and still paying II membership, lock-off fees, exchange fees, and now upgrade fees.



But as I noted in my reply to dioxide45, the cost increase looks a little less impactful when looked at in terms of the overall cost of the lodging, including maintenance fees. For the three years in your example, your $2700 annual maintenance fees for the two Grande Vista weeks totals $8100. The upgrade fees would add $1287, representing about a 16% increase. Your total costs go from $8100 to $9387 (about $400/year). Again, a significant jump, but is it really a game changer?


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## dioxide45 (Jun 27, 2016)

JIMinNC said:


> As you say, your example is a 90% increase in the just exchange fees, but I think that paints an incomplete picture. I think the appropriate way to look at it is what does that lodging actually cost you - the total cost including maintenance fees.
> 
> Let's say that your 2BR lock-off has a maintenance fee of about $1300. You said upgrading to two 2BR units previously cost $268 (I assume you are assuming a non-enrolled owner). That means the two vacations used to cost you $1568. After the fees, using your new cost of $565, the total cost goes up to $1865. Going from $1568 to $1865 is only a 19% increase in the cost. That's the real impact of the change on your bottom line lodging cost.
> 
> A 19% increase isn't insignificant, of course, but does such an increase really alter the overall financial viability to the point that trading no longer makes sense? If I owned a lock-off and had been used to getting it all for free, I would probably grumble about the fee too, but to me, it doesn't really seem to be THAT big of a deal.



I don't disagree overall. Of course a 20% increase overnight in anything isn't going to be easy to swallow. We will probably get used to it. We might not upgrade our studio to a 2BR any longer and just use it for a 1BR upgrade when it is the two of us. Then still upgrade the 1BR to a 2BR when other travel with us. This really is still cheaper than it was before we enrolled our weeks. We just have the $200 DC annual fee in addition to the new upgrade fees. 

My other worry is the reduced availability that may happen in II as a result of this change and if they open up the trade power flood gates. The fee is one thing, if there isn't as much to pick from because those that previously didn't qualify for the exchange can now grab it for an added fee, that is another.


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## dioxide45 (Jun 27, 2016)

Saintsfanfl said:


> But depending on what is desired it can still be far cheaper than buying and using regular DC points. Goes without saying I suppose.



I would still agree. Just looked at using DC points for a May 2017 Aruba trip. We currently ahve a 1BR unit confirmed in II and are looking to retrade, which will come with a $59 fee for us. It is still cheaper than using our whole 2BR week plus another half week of points or renting another 1,000 DC points at $500. If we can use our 1BR week for a 2BR Aruba, the cost would be half our MF along with the upgrade fee of $59. Much cheaper than the DC alternative. Just have to see how the inventory pans out.


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## GregT (Jun 27, 2016)

dioxide45 said:


> My other worry is the reduced availability that may happen in II as a result of this change and if they open up the trade power flood gates. The fee is one thing, if there isn't as much to pick from because those that previously didn't qualify for the exchange can now grab it for an added fee, that is another.



Dioxide, I agree with your comments here.  The fee is annoying, however if inventory gets adversely impacted, that will be a major loss.   It will be interesting to see if people really do leave II, or ultimately reconcile themselves that this is the best option for their Marriott weeks, even if it's now different.

Best,

Greg


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## dioxide45 (Jun 27, 2016)

GregT said:


> Dioxide, I agree with your comments here.  The fee is annoying, however if inventory gets adversely impacted, that will be a major loss.   It will be interesting to see if people really do leave II, or ultimately reconcile themselves that this is the best option for their Marriott weeks, even if it's now different.
> 
> Best,
> 
> Greg



I don't see many people taking their Marriott weeks over to RCI. There are very few dual affiliated resorts anyway. Some may sell back through Marriott or sell their Marriott weeks outright if they don't think the economics work for them now.

I certainly didn't buy our two weeks to spend four in Orlando. Though I do love Orlando. We will just budget the fee in to our annual vacation budget, perhaps taking it out of somewhere else. perhaps another meal or two in instead of dining out. So our vacation dollars will just move from the local restaurants in Orlando to a big corporation in Miami.

It will also be interesting to see how inventory plays out in places like Orlando and Williamsburg where there is always lots of inventory sitting in II. I am sure that this is just about always out there and available for any non Marriott week to grab, with or without the upgrade fee. So it isn't like people will be clamoring to grab those larger 2BR Orlando weeks for a fee if they could have had them before for no extra cost. This might impact beach locations more than areas of over supply. As I say, I can adjust to the added fee, I am more concerned about inventory. If what was a comparable exchange before is different today and you can now grab something that is no longer comparable with just an added fee, that is a game changer.

I think this might also looses up some of the Vidanta availability in RM and NV. A lot of people vie for the Grand Luxxe property, often grabbing larger than they really need, often because there may not be something smaller available. Will people not go for that in the future with the added fee?


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## JIMinNC (Jun 27, 2016)

dioxide45 said:


> My other worry is the reduced availability that may happen in II as a result of this change and if they open up the trade power flood gates. The fee is one thing, if there isn't as much to pick from because those that previously didn't qualify for the exchange can now grab it for an added fee, that is another.



I definitely agree with this point. My assumption has been that they were just charging for trades that once were free. But if they reduce the trade power required to qualify for an upgrade in the first place, then I agree that would be a bad thing for availability. If almost any studio could book a 2BR just by paying $198, that really defeats the whole trade power concept. Why would anyone buy a 1BR or 2BR in that case? Just buy a cheap studio somewhere and pay to trade up. That would be a huge paradigm shift.


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## hangloose (Jun 27, 2016)

JIMinNC said:


> But as I noted in my reply to dioxide45, the cost increase looks a little less impactful when looked at in terms of the overall cost of the lodging, including maintenance fees. For the three years in your example, your $2700 annual maintenance fees for the two Grande Vista weeks totals $8100. The upgrade fees would add $1287, representing about a 16% increase. Your total costs go from $8100 to $9387 (about $400/year). Again, a significant jump, but is it really a game changer?



In my case, I'd say a 16%+ increase is significant assuming our use pattern remains.  If our MVC maintenance fees went up that much, many would likely notice the impact and perhaps even sell their weeks.  Whether it's a "game changer", time will tell.  

It will however make me think twice before I lock-off and/or exchange in II going forward.  I believe II still provides strong value even with the 'upgrade fee'.  For my usage needs, it's still likely a better value than exchanging for DC pts.  II exchanges may just now require a higher price unfortunately for larger villa sizes, which is not as attractive for those like me seeking optimal value per dollar.

And great points above on II inventory.  This is very important and I'll be interested to see how that changes if any at all.


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## JIMinNC (Jun 28, 2016)

hangloose said:


> I believe II still provides strong value even with the 'upgrade fee'.  For my usage needs, it's still likely a better value than exchanging for DC pts.  II exchanges may just now require a higher price unfortunately for larger villa sizes, which is not as attractive for those like me seeking optimal value per dollar.



I guess this was sort of my point; the value still seems to be there, even with the fees, just not as much of a value as before.

We'll have more travel flexibility in a little over a year when our youngest heads to college, so it's possible we may want more DC points or more weeks at that point. Doing another hybrid bundle, but built around a Grande Vista lock-off this time, was one option I've played around with on the numbers. I've also given thought to an EOY 2BR lock-off at Maui Ocean Club or a non-lockoff HHI Grande Ocean (either as standalone weeks, not part of a hybrid). I don't THINK these new II fees will necessarily change our strategy there, but it will be interesting to watch in the months/year ahead.


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## CCR (Jun 28, 2016)

There is still a significant difference when I compare what my studio deposit and my 1 bedroom deposit can see.  Please note this is a high demand 4th of July week I've deposited that should be able to see lots of inventory if based on the TDI.  I noticed this year that the destination points required to book the 4th of July week in Park City became very expensive.


 I think those people worried that the floodgates are totally open can relax.  I can see a Boston Custom House unit for Christmas week with my 1 bedroom unit but not with my studio.  I also can see several two bedrooms for 2016 and 2017 with my 1 bedroom available at Canyon Villas but not with my studio (I mostly see 1 bedrooms or studios).  Same with Park City for next summer.  I can see 2 bedrooms with 1 bedroom deposit but can't see them with my studio.

I did notice there immediately was more available & visible with my Marriott studio deposit with the change. I'm happy about seeing more as I like to try to get airfare early.  I had been searching Arizona and Vegas planning a spring break trip the day before these changes happened so immediately noticed many more units available.   Studios are picking up more but not as much as people with bigger units will see.

The late August Kauai 1 bedrooms were not visible with my studio until this change happened.


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## VacationForever (Jun 28, 2016)

Yes. But studios are picking up inventory that they were not able to see before.  The Oct-Dec NCV weeks that were not visible before to studios were there for the past couple of weeks, just disappeared today.


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## youppi (Jun 28, 2016)

sptung said:


> Yes. But studios are picking up inventory that they were not able to see before.  The Oct-Dec NCV weeks that were not visible before to studios were there for the past couple of weeks, just disappeared today.



It has been reported in the past that an OGS gave more trading power. Same thing when you call. May be they have just gave this little boost to manual search (equalized the TP between all this kind of search, manual,OGS and call)


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## Big Matt (Jun 28, 2016)

If this is the case, then I'd gladly pay $198 to get a 2BR with a studio that wouldn't see it before the fee change.  

I did notice that they also removed some of the quality filters.  My Marriott can now see resorts that it never could before.  

I think all of this is positive.  It gives me more options.



dioxide45 said:


> Over in the II Community forums, many have reported that their studios can see a lot more inventory.


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## Old Hickory (Jun 28, 2016)

Big Matt said:


> If this is the case, then I'd gladly pay $198 to get a 2BR with a studio that wouldn't see it before the fee change.
> 
> I did notice that they also removed some of the quality filters.  My Marriott can now see resorts that it never could before.
> 
> I think all of this is positive.  It gives me more options.



This can't the true.  

It's the end of the world.... I just know it!   :rofl:


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## klpca (Jun 28, 2016)

sptung said:


> Yes. But studios are picking up inventory that they were not able to see before.  The Oct-Dec NCV weeks that were not visible before to studios were there for the past couple of weeks, just disappeared today.



I would think that this was part of the motivation. Get those weeks booked - all the better with additional fees.


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## kds4 (Jun 30, 2016)

kds4 said:


> We are principally 'uptraders' with II. So, this was a slap in the face to us. I already pay an annual membership fee, and a transaction fee every time I exercise that membership. Now, they want me to pay a 3rd fee that for a Studio to 3BR uptrade will drive my exchange fee from $129 to over $300 ... That is offensive.
> 
> I get that I can still make like for like exchanges at current rates. I get that I can make a flexchange uptrade at current rates, (assuming that time frame works for us in the future). I get that II may just be doing/charging what others (RCI) already are. Etc., Etc., Etc.
> 
> ...



Well, I stand partially corrected in my prior posts on this topic. Turns out that II is actually 'cutting me a break' by only charging an extra $177 to uptrade to a 3BR using a studio. After a little more researching, I found out that this fee of $59 per uptrade 'step' (per BR) is actually the Platinum reduced rate. If you're a Gold member, the rate is $79 per step.

If you are a regular member, the uptrade fee is $99 per 'step' (Studio to 1BR is 1 step. Each additional BR you uptrade to is an additional step. Studio to 2Br is 2 steps, etc.). So, if you are a regular II member and want to uptrade from a studio to a 3BR the cost is $129 plus $99x3 (or $297) in additional 'uptrade' fees.

$129 + $297 = $426 to make an exchange (not counting your annual membership fee)? 

Stop the insanity...!!!


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## youppi (Jun 30, 2016)

kds4 said:


> Well, I stand partially corrected in my prior posts on this topic. Turns out that II is actually 'cutting me a break' by only charging an extra $177 to uptrade to a 3BR using a studio. After a little more researching, I found out that this fee of $59 per uptrade 'step' (per BR) is actually the Platinum reduced rate. If you're a Gold member, the rate is $79 per step.
> 
> If you are a regular member, the uptrade fee is $99 per 'step' (Studio to 1BR is 1 step. Each additional BR you uptrade to is an additional step. Studio to 2Br is 2 steps, etc.). So, if you are a regular II member and want to uptrade from a studio to a 3BR the cost is $129 plus $99x3 (or $297) in additional 'uptrade' fees.
> 
> ...



It could be worse. Marriott's could ask II to remove the 3 weeks preferred window, remove perk gave to enrolled owners (free lock-off, free fee to exchange M2M). HOA could stop charging the same MF whatever the season (charge more for peak season or better view, and less for low season to follow the point system. Example: if at a resort the MF is $2000 now than peak season could pay $2500, low season $1500 and mid season $2000).


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## kds4 (Jun 30, 2016)

youppi said:


> It could be worse. Marriott's could ask II to remove the 3 weeks preferred window, remove perk gave to enrolled owners (free lock-off, free fee to exchange M2M). HOA could stop charging the same MF whatever the season (charge more for peak season or better view, and less for low season to follow the point system. Example: if at a resort the MF is $2000 now than peak season could pay $2500, low season $1500 and mid season $2000).



I'm no expert, but wonder if that would be allowed under the governing docs (either under the Trust docs or for Weeks owners). Anyone with more experience have thoughts?


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## SueDonJ (Jun 30, 2016)

youppi said:


> It could be worse. Marriott's could ask II to remove the 3 weeks preferred window, remove perk gave to enrolled owners (free lock-off, free fee to exchange M2M). HOA could stop charging the same MF whatever the season (charge more for peak season or better view, and less for low season to follow the point system. Example: if at a resort the MF is $2000 now than peak season could pay $2500, low season $1500 and mid season $2000).





kds4 said:


> I'm no expert, but wonder if that would be allowed under the governing docs (either under the Trust docs or for Weeks owners). Anyone with more experience have thoughts?



As far as the terms set between II and Marriott, yes, they probably can be changed simply upon renewal/restructure of their affiliation contract.

Weeks MF's structures are a different story.  The majority of states mandate that MF's must be uniform across all seasons so Marriott is bound by those limitations.  They and the other timeshare companies could lobby to change those mandates but as far as we know there hasn't ever been a push towards it.

(The MF's structure for DC Trust Points has the demand-based variance built in, considering that it costs more Points to book the higher-demand intervals.)


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## davidvel (Jun 30, 2016)

*Next Lawsuit*

Waiting for the next lawsuit vs. Marriott: "Plaintiff paid $2,399 to enroll its weeks into the DC club, with Marriott promising to pay all II fees..."


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## taffy19 (Jun 30, 2016)

*How many years are left?*

Marriott renewed their contract with II for 5 years.  Does anyone know when that runs out?  ILG is supposedly working on a Pure Points System that was mentioned here before under a Hyatt thread where you should be able to find it.

ILG owns the Hyatt Residence Club brand and the Westin and Sheraton Clubs (VSE) too now.  Isn't the purchase price based today on what week you buy and the size of the unit plus the view?

I asked the Hyatt if they will have that same system going forward when they start selling new locations too.  Our salesman didn't know but one would think that they will start streamlining their sales and exchange departments going forward eventually?

Will the Marriott sign a new agreement with them and join the other hotel based systems in regard to making exchanges?

Also, we gave up our Marriott (MRPs) CC a long time ago and got a new offer to sign up again for a very generous amount of Bonus Points and also a once a year free night at a Marriott resort but i don't remember what tier it was.

I noticed that the points we would earn no longer had the MRPs logo so is that new too?  It looks to me that many changes are coming.

It is also mentioned here that the Hilton is selling or spinning off something too but they are with RCI, i believe.


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## greenfrog (Jul 1, 2016)

Has Interval acknowledged or explained the rationale behind this decision yet ?


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## Mr. Vker (Jul 1, 2016)

I did learn today that if you have E-Trade plus on an existing exchange prior to this fee going into place, you don't have to pay upgrade fees on those transactions. Call II to get them waived. This comes from an II Marriott rep this morning.


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## tschwa2 (Jul 1, 2016)

Mr. Vker said:


> I did learn today that if you have E-Trade plus on an existing exchange prior to this fee going into place, you don't have to pay upgrade fees on those transactions. Call II to get them waived. This comes from an II Marriott rep this morning.



For eplus you don't need to call to get them waived, it is already programmed so that current exchanges that have eplus don't have the fee.  

Enrolled members making a retrade is a different story and do have the fees and your explanation from the agent doesn't seem like the waiver would apply to non-eplus retrades.


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## Mr. Vker (Jul 1, 2016)

tschwa2 said:


> For eplus you don't need to call to get them waived, it is already programmed so that current exchanges that have eplus don't have the fee.
> 
> Enrolled members making a retrade is a different story and do have the fees and your explanation from the agent doesn't seem like the waiver would apply to non-eplus retrades.



I just read that in the II forum. This rep said to call Glad II has everything lined up.


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## bazzap (Jul 1, 2016)

greenfrog said:


> Has Interval acknowledged or explained the rationale behind this decision yet ?


Just because they can is effectively the answer I received!
To make more money is the only logical explanation.


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## BocaBoy (Jul 1, 2016)

dougp26364 said:


> That's another possibility but, using points carries a built in upgrade fee if you will. I don't particularly see it as an incentive to use points over weeks exchanges.



I think it is a huge incentive to do just that.


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## BocaBoy (Jul 1, 2016)

Marathoner said:


> While I understand the natural reaction that people are expressing in this thread, it also seems like a lot of people have a sense of entitlement around continuing to be able to trade a studio for a 1 bedroom or 2 bedroom.  At the end of the day, if the $99 per upgrade is not worth it, you should absolutely vote with your pocketbook and not do the trade.
> 
> II is a corporation.  They will only revert back to their prior methodology if they see a revenue decline.  The fact that II is looking to increase their profit margins seems to be making people mad when this type of action is what most companies are doing.  I expect that we will all adapt and adjust.  We will figure out new ways to get maximum value out of our timeshares and II exchanges.  It is somewhat ludicrous to read that some people will stop exchanging or use RCI.  Go ahead and do it if that creates more value for you, but I suspect that people will pay the fee because the value in exchanging into a Marriott or Hilton or Hyatt and upgrading from 1 BR to 2 BR is still a great deal even with the additional fee.
> 
> Go ahead and vent since it is likely cathartic and somewhat entertaining to read.  But lets not get carried away and say that II has suddenly lost huge value simply because of a new fee.



I agree with all of this.


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## BocaBoy (Jul 1, 2016)

youppi said:


> HOA could stop charging the same MF whatever the season (charge more for peak season or better view, and less for low season to follow the point system. Example: if at a resort the MF is $2000 now than peak season could pay $2500, low season $1500 and mid season $2000).



This can't be done legally.  And it makes more sense for all seasons to have the same maintenance fees because you have to think of it as the costs of ownership, which don't differ much if at all between seasons.  The purchase price of the week is where the seasonal differences come into play.

It is much the same as maintenance fees for a full ownership condo, which are based on size of the unit and NOT on its location withing the building.  Why?  Because higher floors or better views do not change the COSTS of ownership.  These differences are reflected in the unit's market value.


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## Saintsfanfl (Jul 1, 2016)

BocaBoy said:


> This can't be done legally.  And it makes more sense for all seasons to have the same maintenance fees because you have to think of it as the costs of ownership, which don't differ much if at all between seasons.  The purchase price of the week is where the seasonal differences come into play.
> 
> It is much the same as maintenance fees for a full ownership condo, which are based on size of the unit and NOT on its location withing the building.  Why?  Because higher floors or better views do not change the COSTS of ownership.  These differences are reflected in the unit's market value.



This is the truth and also why many developers prefer a points based system where manipulation is legal.


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## SueDonJ (Jul 1, 2016)

BocaBoy said:


> This can't be done legally.  And it makes more sense for all seasons to have the same maintenance fees because you have to think of it as the costs of ownership, which don't differ much if at all between seasons.  The purchase price of the week is where the seasonal differences come into play.
> 
> It is much the same as maintenance fees for a full ownership condo, which are based on size of the unit and NOT on its location withing the building.  Why?  Because higher floors or better views do not change the COSTS of ownership.  These differences are reflected in the unit's market value.



I posted something similar already but then realized that there are exceptions in the property tax components as noted in the MF sticky threads:

_"*Note that Property Taxes for the Florida resorts will vary according to the Resort Calendar seasons, and are included in the MF budgets.
*Note that Property Taxes for the California resorts will vary among owners based on purchase price/date, and are billed separately by the counties."_

Other than those two US states, all of the others in which Marriott has resorts mandate that all owners of same-size units must pay equal MF's.  I don't know if it's mandated the same at the Euro/Caribbean resorts but it is how Marriott bills MF's there as well.


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## Saintsfanfl (Jul 1, 2016)

I understand your point but really the tax is not the maintenance fee. Florida law requires the maintenance fee be the same so they are not an exception. They do not recognize that their own taxing authority is part of the fee but it is required to be billed as a pass through.


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## youppi (Jul 1, 2016)

I looked at how much a DC trust points owner would paid if he exchanged with II using the grid based on TDI and size with MF at around $0.50 per points.
Grand Luxxe Jul 7, 2017 - Jul 14, 2017 TDI 115-135
studio, 1 bdrm, 2 bdrm, 3 bdrm
1750, 2750, 4000, 5000 pts
$875, $1375, $2000, $2500
Diff between studio and 3 bdrm = $1625

Grand Luxxe Aug 13, 2017 - Aug 20, 2017 TDI 90-110
1500, 2250, 3000, 4000 pts
$750, $1125, $1500, $2000
Diff between studio and 3 bdrm = $1250

Grand Luxxe Aug 27, 2017 - September 03, 2017 TDI 50-85
1000, 1500, 2250, 3000 pts
$500, $750, $1125, $1500
Diff between studio and 3 bdrm = $1000

So, at 3x$99=$297 is still way cheaper than trust points owners.


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## dioxide45 (Jul 1, 2016)

I think the major flaw in the unit size upgrade fee is areas of over supply. Does it really make sense to charge a fee for a larger unit in places like Orlando, HHI and Wiliamsburg during slow season? I wonder if II will ever have specials where they offer a $0 upgrade fee in these types of places.


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## kelly4me (Jul 2, 2016)

This has a big impact on how we use our weeks.  We have two lock-off weeks and have used them since 2011 to trade up.  Based on my history, we would have paid an extra $1,000 in fees.  This de-values our trader in my eyes.  We have regularly traded our July 4th studios for a larger unit off-season.  It will also steer me away from resorts that are only 2-bedroom like Cypress Harbour (though I love it) in Orlando when I can make a 1-bedroom elsewhere work.

In some cases, we stayed in non-Marriott units that are "just okay" to be close to my parents.  There is no way that I'd pay those fees to stay there.  I looked at the larger room as a compensation for staying in a place that was nowhere near as nice as my Marriott (none in that area).  Now I'll just pay to stay in a decent hotel instead.  We rarely stayed for a week anyway.

One interesting thing to note - my "studio" based Accomodation Certificate did not carry these new fees.  I could get a 2-bedroom Marriott room in Orlando in September with no additional fee beyond the original noted trade cost.  Those are typically based on unit size anyway, so I guess that makes sense.

I am wiling to pay ePlus fees because they add a lot of value and flexibility.  This fee is a serious downgrade of value in my eyes.

We were pondering selling our second unit.  This will likely make the decision for us.  We do a lot of semi-offseason weeks in Orlando and Williamsburg, so it wil make more sense to just purchase Getaway weeks when we need them.


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## youppi (Jul 2, 2016)

dioxide45 said:


> I think the major flaw in the unit size upgrade fee is areas of over supply. Does it really make sense to charge a fee for a larger unit in places like Orlando, HHI and Wiliamsburg during slow season? I wonder if II will ever have specials where they offer a $0 upgrade fee in these types of places.



Trust points in low season 50-85 TDI pay an upgrade fee of $1000 between studio and 3 bdrm. II has never made a difference between Orlando and Hawaii for trust points so why they should do it for week owners ?
Do you know many studio with MF + 3x upgrade fee that reach $1500 (3 bdrm 50-85 TDI MF of trust point) ?
For trust points owners whatever the season, place like Orlando are way too expensive for them, Getaways are always cheaper.
Also, trust points have no discount based on II membership nor during flexchange. So, week owners have a better deal.


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## krj9999 (Jul 2, 2016)

I tend to agree with others that studios are seeing more inventory (particularly some 2BR units) than they had of late.  Or at least my studio that I exchanged and have EPlus for seems to.

I probably won't mind paying the upgrade fee that much IF my Willow Ridge studio can see a greater amount of larger units (even outside of flexchange) than before.

But need to upgrade to either Gold or Platinum the next time I see a 50% offer come my way.


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## dioxide45 (Jul 2, 2016)

krj9999 said:


> But need to upgrade to either Gold or Platinum the next time I see a 50% offer come my way.



Wee if this helps?

http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=243730


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## Safti (Jul 2, 2016)

Hold on. I'm a bit confused. I exchanged two one bedroom units in Orlando for two 2 bedroom units in Orlando. Same resort just a different week. I exchanged them in Jan. before this new upgrade fee ever came into effect. Am I NOW going to be charged after the fact?


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## krj9999 (Jul 2, 2016)

No, just for new exchanges going forward.



Safti said:


> Hold on. I'm a bit confused. I exchanged two one bedroom units in Orlando for two 2 bedroom units in Orlando. Same resort just a different week. I exchanged them in Jan. before this new upgrade fee ever came into effect. Am I NOW going to be charged after the fact?


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## Fairwinds (Jul 4, 2016)

kelly4me said:


> This has a big impact on how we use our weeks.  We have two lock-off weeks and have used them since 2011 to trade up.  Based on my history, we would have paid an extra $1,000 in fees.  This de-values our trader in my eyes.  We have regularly traded our July 4th studios for a larger unit off-season.  It will also steer me away from resorts that are only 2-bedroom like Cypress Harbour (though I love it) in Orlando when I can make a 1-bedroom elsewhere work.
> 
> In some cases, we stayed in non-Marriott units that are "just okay" to be close to my parents.  There is no way that I'd pay those fees to stay there.  I looked at the larger room as a compensation for staying in a place that was nowhere near as nice as my Marriott (none in that area).  Now I'll just pay to stay in a decent hotel instead.  We rarely stayed for a week anyway.
> 
> ...



I agree that it's a bitter pill. Here is an example that will be common for me:

I use my Manor Club as a lock off trader every other year. A common scenario for me will be trading into Monarch in October for two weeks. (RedWeek rental~$1500 per week or 2000 MVC points per week or II Getaway ~ $1000[likely more] Per week)

MMC maint. Fee: $1275.00 (election value 2375 points) 
Club dues: $92.00 ($275 \3 resorts)
New Upgrade fees: $297.00
Total cost: $1664.00 ($832.00 per week)

I would have preferred a reduction of $297 but in the end it's still worth it for me.


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## l0410z (Jul 5, 2016)

Marriott has influence over II.  Week or point ownership our association with II is driven by Marioott.  It appears many owners on various Facebook sites and Tug are bothered by it.  Change.org is a petition website that can be used to voice this to Marriott.  Marriott can try and influence on their members behalf. 

Should this be its own thread to solicit opinions?

Thoughts on petition.


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## kds4 (Jul 5, 2016)

l0410z said:


> Marriott has influence over II.  Week or point ownership our association with II is driven by Marioott.  It appears many owners on various Facebook sites and Tug are bothered by it.  Change.org is a petition website that can be used to voice this to Marriott.  Marriott can try and influence on their members behalf.
> 
> Should this be its own thread to solicit opinions?
> 
> Thoughts on petition.



I don't see MVCI lobbying against this. As I've posted previously, I think it is actually in Marriott's best interest that II has done this. MVCI would prefer owners deposit/exchange internally versus depositing weeks with II. This new fee discourages owners, including me, from making further deposits (which I specifically did in the past to uptrade). For 'like' exchanges (which are the only ones that do not have the uptrade fee), I might as well just go through Marriott and avoid the II costs. We always exchange to other MVCI properties anyway. So, II just got me to do what MVCI prefers I do anyway.

Would Marriott try to deter II from doing this. I don't think so. I think this is helping Marriott IMHO.


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## bazzap (Jul 5, 2016)

kds4 said:


> I don't see MVCI lobbying against this. As I've posted previously, I think it is actually in Marriott's best interest that II has done this. MVCI would prefer owners deposit/exchange internally versus depositing weeks with II. This new fee discourages owners, including me, from making further deposits (which I specifically did in the past to uptrade). For 'like' exchanges (which are the only ones that do not have the uptrade fee), I might as well just go through Marriott and avoid the II costs. We always exchange to other MVCI properties anyway. So, II just got me to do what MVCI prefers I do anyway.
> 
> Would Marriott try to deter II from doing this. I don't think so. I think this is helping Marriott IMHO.


I agree this is helping MVC, so why would they lobby against II?
I believe though that MVC should not just ignore the fact that they "sold" DC on the basis of the annual dues covering all II fees.
I will probably still mostly lock off and exchange through II, as I get a better return.
If I elect for points, I can essentially just get a week in another MVC resort.
If I lock off and exchange through II, I can still get 2 weeks in another MVC resort but now I have to pay as a UK Platinum II member 1x or 2x £39 upgrade fee.
Not as good as £0, but £39 or £78 for an extra week in an MVC resort is not exactly bad.


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## l0410z (Jul 5, 2016)

kds4 said:


> I don't see MVCI lobbying against this. As I've posted previously, I think it is actually in Marriott's best interest that II has done this. MVCI would prefer owners deposit/exchange internally versus depositing weeks with II. This new fee discourages owners, including me, from making further deposits (which I specifically did in the past to uptrade). For 'like' exchanges (which are the only ones that do not have the uptrade fee), I might as well just go through Marriott and avoid the II costs. We always exchange to other MVCI properties anyway. So, II just got me to do what MVCI prefers I do anyway.
> 
> Would Marriott try to deter II from doing this. I don't think so. I think this is helping Marriott IMHO.



I have a legacy week enrolled (Monarch) and  non legacy weeks (Monarch and Grand Chateau).  In every case I use II to trade to another Marriott (assuming did not exchange for points).   On the Grand Chateau (which was recently acquired), I used the lockout feature  so I have a studio and 1 BR.  Are you saying that if  I didn't deposit my week to II and did a  place request I would not have to pay the upgrade fee for my studio to trade up?


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## davidvel (Jul 5, 2016)

kds4 said:


> I don't see MVCI lobbying against this. As I've posted previously, I think it is actually in Marriott's best interest that II has done this. MVCI would prefer owners deposit/exchange internally versus depositing weeks with II. This new fee discourages owners, including me, from making further deposits (which I specifically did in the past to uptrade). *For 'like' exchanges (which are the only ones that do not have the uptrade fee), I might as well just go through Marriott and avoid the II costs. We always exchange to other MVCI properties anyway.* So, II just got me to do what MVCI prefers I do anyway.
> 
> Would Marriott try to deter II from doing this. I don't think so. I think this is helping Marriott IMHO.


How exactly to you exchange your week internally "through Marriott"? Is this a new option?


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## tschwa2 (Jul 5, 2016)

"through Marriott"  as points through the destination club.  Like for like (as determined by Marriott) with skim.


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## kds4 (Jul 5, 2016)

tschwa2 said:


> "through Marriott"  as points through the destination club.  Like for like (as determined by Marriott) with skim.



Correct. Although you can mitigate the skim depending on when you travel, 'peak' versus 'off-peak'.


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## youppi (Jul 6, 2016)

II posted this today on II community:
Hello Interval members,

We have heard your concerns and apologize for not providing advance notice about the new unit-size upgrade fee. We assure you that we will improve our communications in the future.



Prior to launching this fee, we reviewed data and conducted member research to better understand member behavior and inventory utilization. We learned that members often confirm larger units than are necessary to accommodate their travel party. This finding, along with the fact that points-based members already relinquish more points when receiving a larger unit, the trend toward shorter booking windows, and other factors, influenced the introduction of the unit-size upgrade fee. As always, if a unit-size upgrade is offered during Flexchange, there is no additional fee.



The unit-size upgrade fee supports Interval’s commitment to providing comparable exchanges to members around the world. Our inventory control and optimization processes are designed to create the greatest number of exchange opportunities possible for members, while maintaining fairness across the system.



For more information, please see “Inventory Control and Optimization – Comparable Exchange for Weeks Ownership” in the Document Library.
View attachment Comparable_Exchange_Overview.pdf


Thank you for your input, participation in Community, and membership in Interval International.


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## pchung6 (Jul 6, 2016)

youppi said:


> II posted this today on II community:
> This finding, along with the fact that points-based members already relinquish more points when receiving a larger unit, *the trend toward shorter booking windows*, and other factors, influenced the introduction of the unit-size upgrade fee. As always, if a unit-size upgrade is offered during Flexchange, there is no additional fee.



It seems to me Interval will soon shorten the Flexchange period from 60 days to maybe 45??


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## davidvel (Jul 7, 2016)

kds4 said:


> Correct. Although you can mitigate the skim depending on when you travel, 'peak' versus 'off-peak'.



Well that's not exactly "upgrading" your unit to a bigger size. And yes you pay the upgrade fee (skim) even for an even "exchange".


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## kds4 (Jul 7, 2016)

davidvel said:


> Well that's not exactly "upgrading" your unit to a bigger size. And yes you pay the upgrade fee (skim) even for an even "exchange".



That wasn't my point. My point was that since II claims to be striving to establish a 'like for like' exchange system (by discouraging uptrades unless members pay additional fees), I may as well just use Marriott's internal exchange system to get 'like for like' exchanges and save my II membership fees, exchange fees, (and uptrade fees) which is what Marriott prefers owners do anyway (and why MVCI will never protest this fee on behalf of owners as it supports Marriott's own goal of eliminating II as an 'exchange' competitor - at least for those like myself who exchange Marriott to Marriott). 

This results in less money (not more) to II due to my no longer paying membership fees or exchange fees as I have in the past as well as reducing their exchange inventory as I will no longer be making the 4 deposits each year that I have in the past.

As far as my comment about mitigating the 'skim', I do that by offsetting my peak season reservations (which have high skim) with low season reservations (which are far enough below cash rates that I am effectively 'skimming back' and off-setting any peak 'skim'). Your mileage may vary.


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## davidvel (Jul 7, 2016)

kds4 said:


> That wasn't my point. My point was that since II claims to be striving to establish a 'like for like' exchange system (by discouraging uptrades unless members pay additional fees), I may as well just use Marriott's internal exchange system to get 'like for like' exchanges and save my II membership fees, exchange fees, (and uptrade fees) which is what Marriott prefers owners do anyway (and why MVCI will never protest this fee on behalf of owners as it supports Marriott's own goal of eliminating II as an 'exchange' competitor - at least for those like myself who exchange Marriott to Marriott).
> 
> This results in less money (not more) to II due to my no longer paying membership fees or exchange fees as I have in the past as well as reducing their exchange inventory as I will no longer be making the 4 deposits each year that I have in the past.
> 
> As far as my comment about mitigating the 'skim', I do that by offsetting my peak season reservations (which have high skim) with low season reservations (which are far enough below cash rates that I am effectively 'skimming back' and off-setting any peak 'skim'). Your mileage may vary.


I see where you are coming from, except that you aren't paying any membership or exchange (except uptrade exchange) fees now.

My point was that converting to DC points and then reserving days or weeks with those points is completely different than exchanging weeks through II (or RCI, etc). I don't consider electing points and using the DC system to be an "exchange." There really is no Marriott to Marriott "internal exchange" comparable to II. I only point this out to benefit those less experienced with the system, who think they can avoid II and still trade/exchange their weeks through Marriott.  (With changes everyday I thought you meant initially that there was some new internal Marriott to a Marriott exchange option.)


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## kds4 (Jul 7, 2016)

davidvel said:


> I see where you are coming from, except that you aren't paying any membership or exchange (except uptrade exchange) fees now.
> 
> My point was that converting to DC points and then reserving days or weeks with those points is completely different than exchanging weeks through II (or RCI, etc). I don't consider electing points and using the DC system to be an "exchange." There really is no Marriott to Marriott "internal exchange" comparable to II. I only point this out to benefit those less experienced with the system, who think they can avoid II and still trade/exchange their weeks through Marriott.  (With changes everyday I thought you meant initially that there was some new internal Marriott to a Marriott exchange option.)



I have been maintaining 2 II accounts based on having both enrolled and un-enrolled weeks. I will be enrolling my remaining week and letting my individual II account lapse when it expires.


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## Superchief (Jul 7, 2016)

As a chairman level MVC with all my weeks enrolled, I likely will no longer deposit any of my weeks with II. I don't pay any annual II dues, but would gladly drop my membership if MVC offered a discount on their annual fees. My recent II exchange attempts haven't been very successful and I have more options through VC points.

One pet peeve I've always had with II is that if I include any non MVC resorts in my search, I have to pay the non-Marriott exchange fee even if I never get confirmed in a non-MVC resort. This is a ridiculous policy and prevents me from ever staying at non-MVC resorts.


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## GetawaysRus (Jul 14, 2016)

PamMo said:


> With ever increasing MF's, property taxes, club, and trading fees, timesharing has become much less attractive. We primarily own where we want to vacation, but are starting to think it makes more sense to sell/give away ALL of our weeks and become renters. It was nice to feel like we "won" the game once in awhile, but it's getting much harder.



That's a funny comment, but very true.  I also can't ever seem to "win the game."  Let's think about this:

Property tax - my local county gradually raises the appraised value of my home each year, and my property taxes rise accordingly.

Income tax - I work, therefore I pay (to paraphrase Descartes).  I feel like my friendly Federal and State governments have a vacuum cleaner in my pocket, and every few years they turn up the suction.

Social Security - I'm in my early 60s and married.  I was planning to take advantage of the "File and Suspend" strategy.  I would file for my benefit when I reached Full Retirement Age but then immediately suspend payments.  That would have allowed my wife to take a spousal benefit on my plan when she reached FRA while also deferring taking her own benefit.  POOF!  The government got rid of that late last year.

Travel - I play the "miles and points" travel rewards game to hold down the costs of our travel.  Probably many of you here in the Marriott Forum collect Marriott (Hotel) Reward points.  But every few years, the hotel chains and airlines change their programs and devalue those points.

Timesharing - the biggest lie I was ever told was from a Marriott timeshare salesman, that buying a timeshare was equivalent to locking in the cost of your future vacations.  But the truth is that the fees go up every year.


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## grupp (Jul 15, 2016)

I just made my first exchange paying the upgrade fee. Traded my Wiilow Ridge studio for a 2br at Marriott Maui Ocean club the 1st week in October. I had used the Marriott 50% off code to upgrade my II membership so only paid $118 upgrade fee. 

Personally, I think this is a great opportunity to use lock-off units. Previously, I would never had seen the 2br with my studio, but there were a couple 2br online this morning and I took one. If my wife did not have work issues, I would have taken the other week using my 1br and had a 14 day Hawaiii vacation using my Willow Ridge Platinum week, plus the upgrade fee.

I hate the rising fees as much as the next person, but I think this really opens up some possibilities for smaller units and lock-offs that might not have been available before on a consistent basis.


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## Fasttr (Jul 15, 2016)

grupp said:


> I just made my first exchange paying the upgrade fee. Traded my Wiilow Ridge studio for a 2br at Marriott Maui Ocean club the 1st week in October. I had used the Marriott 50% off code to upgrade my II membership so only paid $118 upgrade fee.
> 
> Personally, I think this is a great opportunity to use lock-off units. Previously, I would never had seen the 2br with my studio, but there were a couple 2br online this morning and I took one. If my wife did not have work issues, I would have taken the other week using my 1br and had a 14 day Hawaiii vacation using my Willow Ridge Platinum week, plus the upgrade fee.
> 
> I hate the rising fees as much as the next person, but I think this really opens up some possibilities for smaller units and lock-offs that might not have been available before on a consistent basis.



But the flip side is that the user searching with a 2BR under the old methodology who would have likely snagged that because you were not able to see it is now without a chance at it.  I don't play in II, but I can certainly see it from the other guys perspective as well.  You think its great, him, not so much!!


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## klpca (Jul 15, 2016)

Fasttr said:


> But the flip side is that the user searching with a 2BR under the old methodology who would have likely snagged that because you were not able to see it is now without a chance at it.  I don't play in II, but I can certainly see it from the other guys perspective as well.  You think its great, him, not so much!!


But the guy with the two bedroom unit can pull it with an ongoing search. He will be ok. It will only be available using an instant search after the ogs are filled. Theoretically.  

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


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## Fasttr (Jul 15, 2016)

klpca said:


> But the guy with the two bedroom unit can pull it with an ongoing search. He will be ok. It will only be available using an instant search after the ogs are filled. Theoretically.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk



Again, I am no II expert, but if somebody dropped this week into II today and it was grabbed today by the studio, it never gets to the overnight OGS correct?  Or is the OGS robot always running and gets triggered immediately before weeks go to instant search availability.


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## SmithOp (Jul 15, 2016)

Fasttr said:


> Again, I am no II expert, but if somebody dropped this week into II today and it was grabbed today by the studio, it never gets to the overnight OGS correct?  Or is the OGS robot always running and gets triggered immediately before weeks go to instant search availability.





OGS is not a robot, its an overnight batch program.


Sent from my iPad Mini 4 using Tapatalk


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## JIMinNC (Jul 15, 2016)

Fasttr said:


> Again, I am no II expert, but if somebody dropped this week into II today and it was grabbed today by the studio, it never gets to the overnight OGS correct?  Or is the OGS robot always running and gets triggered immediately before weeks go to instant search availability.



Are you sure deposits go directly into inventory during the day? Why would it not make sense that, when a week is deposited, it should go into a holding status until it can be matched against OGS requests overnight. Only then would it be loaded into the inventory that can be seen online or through the call center. That would seem to be the only reasonable way for it to work, otherwise, someone doing a search could grab a highly demanded week before the established OGS requests could be fulfilled - unless, as you say, the OGS robot is always running.


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## tschwa2 (Jul 15, 2016)

I thought they briefly (under 3 minutes) went into active inventory when deposited and then got pulled back until the batch could go through the OGS overnight.  Cancellations sometimes go right back into active inventory and stay there and other times seem to get pulled back for the batch match.

I thought this was why you hear so many completes about randomly seeing inventory online that should have matched to an existing OGS.


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## Fasttr (Jul 15, 2016)

SmithOp said:


> OGS is not a robot, its an overnight batch program.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad Mini 4 using Tapatalk



I fully realize that its not warning Will Robinson of Danger.... robot was a figure of speech for an automated process.


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## Fasttr (Jul 15, 2016)

JIMinNC said:


> Are you sure deposits go directly into inventory during the day? Why would it not make sense that, when a week is deposited, it should go into a holding status until it can be matched against OGS requests overnight. Only then would it be loaded into the inventory that can be seen online or through the call center. That would seem to be the only reasonable way for it to work, otherwise, someone doing a search could grab a highly demanded week before the established OGS requests could be fulfilled - unless, as you say, the OGS robot is always running.



I totally agree, but see posts here all the time which leads me to believe that's not how it actually happens.


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## SmithOp (Jul 15, 2016)

Fasttr said:


> I fully realize that its not warning Will Robinson of Danger.... robot was a figure of speech for an automated process.





I took it to mean something that was always running and would grab it right away versus being scheduled to run overnight in a batch that releases inventory then runs ogs matches.  These programs may even overlap when large bulk deposits are being loaded, so the load does not finish before ogs runs, and some of them show up early in the morning.  Just monitor the sightings forum, I've seen reports of bulk loads that are still running when spotted.


Sent from my iPad Mini 4 using Tapatalk


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## dioxide45 (Jul 15, 2016)

tschwa2 said:


> I thought they briefly (under 3 minutes) went into active inventory when deposited and then got pulled back until the batch could go through the OGS overnight.  Cancellations sometimes go right back into active inventory and stay there and other times seem to get pulled back for the batch match.
> 
> I thought this was why you hear so many completes about randomly seeing inventory online that should have matched to an existing OGS.



This is correct. There are two processes. One that is running throughout the day to sweep new deposits and put them in to the queue for the overnight. The overnight process is the one that actually makes the matches and sends out the email. The issue happens when people snap up a deposit between when it is deposited and when the sweep grabs it. Not sure why II can't program to prevent deposits from going in to general inventory before the sweep.


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## hangloose (Jul 15, 2016)

grupp said:


> I just made my first exchange paying the upgrade fee. Traded my Wiilow Ridge studio for a 2br at Marriott Maui Ocean club the 1st week in October. I had used the Marriott 50% off code to upgrade my II membership so only paid $118 upgrade fee.
> 
> Personally, I think this is a great opportunity to use lock-off units. Previously, I would never had seen the 2br with my studio, but there were a couple 2br online this morning and I took one. If my wife did not have work issues, I would have taken the other week using my 1br and had a 14 day Hawaiii vacation using my Willow Ridge Platinum week, plus the upgrade fee.
> 
> I hate the rising fees as much as the next person, but I think this really opens up some possibilities for smaller units and lock-offs that might not have been available before on a consistent basis.



Great trade. Congrats!  I'd feel good about paying the upgrade fees on this exchange.   Enjoy.

Goes to show that if you search hard and frequently enough, you never know what you will find.  Sometimes great weeks slip into immediately available inventory briefly before OGS picks them up for a match to an existing request.


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## WBP (Jul 30, 2016)

*Email this morning from Interval International about exchange/unit size upgrade fee*

Look for an email this morning about Interval International charging a new fee to upgrade from a smaller unit to a larger unit when you exchange > 60 days out. This new fee is in addition to an exchange fee.

I.I. provides some rhetoric in an attempt to justify the fee. I wonder if the Marriott HOA Boards took this up for discussion, as I would expect that Marriott would have had to have agreed to it.

I just have this gut instinct that this is yet another attempt to divert exchanges from I.I. to the Marriott Destinations points venue.

Time now to take a closer look at SFX, and to request that the Marriott HOA Boards take this up as a consumer advocacy issue.


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## kjd (Jul 30, 2016)

Of course Marriott is in on this deal.  While they don't receive the upgrade fee (maybe they do) they consider legacy owners a nuisance and wish they had one system based on points.  They will do everything to drive legacy owners into the point system.  This up charge is just one more thing.

Legacy owners have deeds to Marriott property, often buy and sell at prices well below what Marriott list prices are, are not subjected to the "skim" Marriott receives from the point system, has little control over rentals and has to maintain a dual accounting system for legal reasons.  In other words legacy owners are an undesirable fact of life in order for them to run their point system.  

Marriott likes legacy owners only if they can sell them on moving to the point system, sell their units through Marriott resales for a fat commission or when they want to exercise ROFR to gain inventory for the points system.  I don't expect any improvements to legacy ownership.  It would be great if they just left us alone.


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## pedro47 (Jul 30, 2016)

How will this effect lock out units that are one bedroom units?


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## kjd (Jul 30, 2016)

You'll pay $79 to trade for a two bedroom unit with your lockoff.  The lockoff is only available to legacy owners at certain resorts.  This now puts you closer to what happens to point system owners.  They pay more for a two bedroom.


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## dioxide45 (Jul 30, 2016)

kjd said:


> You'll pay $79 to trade for a two bedroom unit with your lockoff.  The lockoff is only available to legacy owners at certain resorts.  This now puts you closer to what happens to point system owners.  They pay more for a two bedroom.



THe upgrade fee is actually $99. It is discounted $20 for each level of II membership you have. So gold pays $79 and Platinum pays $59.

I am still bothered by the fee and their justification is bogus. It is a pure money grab for II, nothing more. Exchanging was long based on like for like. If II didn't want me to be able to get a 2BR unit with my studio, they shouldn't have had comparable rankings within their system to allow the "like for like" trade. If it wasn't about money, they wouldn't have expanded what smaller units can now see just because their is a fee. People with lower power studios that couldn't see larger units in the past can now magically see those with their studios and can book them as long as they are willing to pay II for the privileged. All about profits.

Of course, all that said, we will probably still pay the fee and just charge it to the people traveling with us. We never ask our guests to pay any part of the MFs on the underlying week.


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## dioxide45 (Jul 30, 2016)

kjd said:


> Of course Marriott is in on this deal.  While they don't receive the upgrade fee (maybe they do) they consider legacy owners a nuisance and wish they had one system based on points.  They will do everything to drive legacy owners into the point system.  This up charge is just one more thing.
> 
> Legacy owners have deeds to Marriott property, often buy and sell at prices well below what Marriott list prices are, are not subjected to the "skim" Marriott receives from the point system, has little control over rentals and has to maintain a dual accounting system for legal reasons.  In other words legacy owners are an undesirable fact of life in order for them to run their point system.
> 
> Marriott likes legacy owners only if they can sell them on moving to the point system, sell their units through Marriott resales for a fat commission or when they want to exercise ROFR to gain inventory for the points system.  I don't expect any improvements to legacy ownership.  It would be great if they just left us alone.



I think Marriott was probably caught off guard on this one too. II has no obligation to inform them or get permission from their member resorts of fee increases. I am sure Marriott doesn't care one way or the other if they increase the fees. It will be good fodder for the timeshare reps, but in the end, exchanging through II, even with the new upgrade fees, is still cheaper than trading our week for DC points and booking similar exchanges through DC.


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## dioxide45 (Jul 30, 2016)

*Email*

Here is the contents of that email;



> Dear Marriott Vacation Club Destinations Members With Legacy Weeks,
> 
> We want to provide you with some information about our recent introduction of a unit-size upgrade fee and the reasons behind this decision.
> 
> ...


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## dioxide45 (Jul 30, 2016)

WJS said:


> Time now to take a closer look at SFX, and to request that the Marriott HOA Boards take this up as a consumer advocacy issue.



I believe that SFX as well as the other independents already charge upgrade fees for unit size.


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## bizaro86 (Jul 30, 2016)

Its more ackward for Marriott enrolled weeks than anyone else, because MVW promised to pay their II fees in exchange for the program fees, but now this is extra.


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## aka Julie (Jul 30, 2016)

II seems to be coming up with more and more "creative" ways to earn money.

Upgrade your membership, E-plus, and now exchange upgrade fee.  What's next?


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## WBP (Jul 30, 2016)

dioxide45 said:


> I think Marriott was probably caught off guard on this one too. II has no obligation to inform them or get permission from their member resorts of fee increases. I am sure Marriott doesn't care one way or the other if they increase the fees. It will be good fodder for the timeshare reps, but in the end, exchanging through II, even with the new upgrade fees, is still cheaper than trading our week for DC points and booking similar exchanges through DC.



The relationship between Marriott and Interval International and how Marriott owners relate to Interval International (even those owners not enrolled in the Destinations program) is carefully negotiated between the two parties, with very specific performance parameters, etc. 

I highly doubt that Marriott was blindsided by this. In fact, I would much more suspect that I.I.'s new policy was carefully orchestrated by Marriott.


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## klpca (Jul 30, 2016)

I'm sure that Marriott had a say in things with this change, but as it affects all Interval members, not just Marriott owners, I hope that they were not the instigators. 

We came into timesharing in 2011 and have never attended a Marriott presentation so we were never told about trading up like other owners were told, so I'm less upset because I never expected to be able to trade a studio into a two bedroom in the first place. It was great while it lasted and for us, just paying an upgrade fee to uptrade the studio (and to be able to see the inventory at all) is not a bad tradeoff. For example, my DSVII studio just couldn't see Newport Coast except in rare circumstances. Newport Coast is driving distance for us so we would love to be able to stay there. We are pretty flexible with our travel dates and it was frustrating to not be able to see the shoulder season inventory. I'm hoping that will change now.

It is annoying that in the world of timesharing that the rules are always changing. Sometimes it's a win for us (Eplus is very beneficial for us as resale owners, and even Platinum membership has value for us), sometimes it's a win for them. I'm not sure that there is a better way, though. SFX does have upgrade fees - and not just for unit size. They have upgrade fees for certain resorts as well. Plus significantly higher exchange fees ($209) unless you pay a multi year membership fee.


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## cp73 (Jul 30, 2016)

This seems to be to a benefit and not a bad thing. So now you can trade your lockoff for a one or two bedroom unit more than 60 days out if you pay the $99 fee for each step up. Does this mean I can also place a request for a larger unit if I agree to pay this fee. If you don't want to pay the fee then you can still exchange within the last 60 days of check in. I hope you can place a request and agree to the fee...


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## kjd (Jul 30, 2016)

If you're looking to trading for a Marriott it won't help you much because at the same time the supply of Marriott weeks is drying up as legacy weeks go into the points program.  Marriott is not creating any more legacy weeks.


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## klpca (Jul 30, 2016)

kjd said:


> If you're looking to trading for a Marriott it won't help you much because at the same time the supply of Marriott weeks is drying up as legacy weeks go into the points program.  Marriott is not creating any more legacy weeks.



Resale owners have no other choice besides Interval. Those weeks will be trading in Interval. So far it hasn't impacted us at all, but we travel during shoulder season and don't need two bedrooms most of the time.

If I want to stay during high season in a two bedroom occasionally, I will rent. No way will I pay thousands of $$ for points. I just doesn't make financial sense to me. YMMV.


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## SueDonJ (Jul 30, 2016)

WJS said:


> The relationship between Marriott and Interval International and how Marriott owners relate to Interval International (even those owners not enrolled in the Destinations program) is carefully negotiated between the two parties, with very specific performance parameters, etc.
> 
> I highly doubt that Marriott was blindsided by this. In fact, I would much more suspect that I.I.'s new policy was carefully orchestrated by Marriott.



In addition to this TUG thread on the Marriott board there's this one on the Exchanging board - Interval international unit size upgrade fee?? - because it isn't only Marriotts that are affected.  I don't think we can say that any one of the timeshare companies who have relationships with II instigated this but it's probably true that they were given some notice by II prior to its implementation.


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## bazzap (Jul 30, 2016)

I have just received this by email from Interval
This is the UK version with Sterling pricing.

Dear Marriott Vacation Club Destinations Members With Legacy Weeks,

We want to provide you with some information about our recent introduction of a unit-size upgrade fee and the reasons behind this decision.

Based on Interval's ongoing analyses of the supply and demand trends of our exchange inventory and inventory valuation, members who relinquish a smaller unit type may have an opportunity to "upgrade" their exchange into a larger unit type. Recent research, including the use of member focus groups, demonstrated that members often confirm larger units than necessary to accommodate their travel party. This result, along with a trend toward shorter booking windows, influenced the introduction of the unit-size upgrade fee.

Interval's unit-size upgrade fee is £69 per step-up in unit size. However, a reduced price of £49 per step-up is available to Interval Gold members, and £39 per step-up for Interval Platinum members. Members who have the opportunity to exchange into a larger unit type more than 60 days in advance of check-in may choose that option by paying the unit-size upgrade fee. Alternatively, members may wait until they are within the Flexchange window (currently 59 days or less before the travel date) and select from the available inventory. In that case, any unit-size upgrade selected will not require an upgrade fee.

Your Interval International membership, as well as your internal exchange fee when using a legacy week to confirm into a Marriott Vacation Club property, are included as part of your membership in the Marriott Vacation Club Destinations program. Should you choose to upgrade to a larger-size unit than the Club accommodation you relinquished, when confirming 60 days or more in advance, you will be responsible for the payment of the applicable unit-size upgrade fee.

For more detailed information; on how the unit-size upgrade fee may apply to your future travel plans, please see the Frequently Asked Questions on this subject found at IntervalWorld.com. We also recommend that you read our discussion of factors that impact exchange, "Inventory Control and Optimization — Comparable Exchange for Weeks Ownership," in Interval's Community Document Library.

We look forward to serving your vacation needs for many years to come


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## Ken555 (Jul 30, 2016)

dioxide45 said:


> I believe that SFX as well as the other independents already charge upgrade fees for unit size.





No upgrade fee at SFX for Diamond members.


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## dioxide45 (Jul 30, 2016)

klpca said:


> I'm sure that Marriott had a say in things with this change, but as it affects all Interval members, not just Marriott owners, I hope that they were not the instigators.
> 
> We came into timesharing in 2011 and have never attended a Marriott presentation so we were never told about trading up like other owners were told, so I'm less upset because I never expected to be able to trade a studio into a two bedroom in the first place. It was great while it lasted and for us, just paying an upgrade fee to uptrade the studio (and to be able to see the inventory at all) is not a bad tradeoff. For example, my DSVII studio just couldn't see Newport Coast except in rare circumstances. Newport Coast is driving distance for us so we would love to be able to stay there. We are pretty flexible with our travel dates and it was frustrating to not be able to see the shoulder season inventory. I'm hoping that will change now.
> 
> It is annoying that in the world of timesharing that the rules are always changing. Sometimes it's a win for us (Eplus is very beneficial for us as resale owners, and even Platinum membership has value for us), sometimes it's a win for them. I'm not sure that there is a better way, though. SFX does have upgrade fees - and not just for unit size. They have upgrade fees for certain resorts as well. Plus significantly higher exchange fees ($209) unless you pay a multi year membership fee.



Reading post #48, Owner Services wasn't aware of the change when the person contacted them. It is possible that high level management was made aware of this change prior to II implementing, but I don't see any reason why II would have to make any of their affiliated resorts aware of the new fee.


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## klpca (Jul 30, 2016)

dioxide45 said:


> Reading post #48, Owner Services wasn't aware of the change when the person contacted them. It is possible that high level management was made aware of this change prior to II implementing, but I don't see any reason why II would have to make any of their affiliated resorts aware of the new fee.



That makes sense.


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## davidvel (Jul 30, 2016)

bazzap said:


> I have just received this by email from Interval
> This is the UK version with Sterling pricing.
> 
> Dear Marriott Vacation Club Destinations Members With Legacy Weeks,
> ...


Interesting how this is coming from II, but nothing from Marriott. In fact, the enrollment disclosures still state:


> Owners who elect to enroll agree to pay annual Exchange Company Dues based on their Owner Recognition Level. These Dues currently range from $185 to $250 per owner, and you'll also enjoy a simplified fee structure *so you don't have to pay separate fees for Interval International® membership, exchanges to other Marriott Vacation Club resorts* or trades for Marriott Rewards points.


This is no longer true. You now have to pay upwards up $200 for certain Marriott to Marriott trades. Note there is no exception, footnote, etc. stating that certain Marriott to Marriott trades carry a fee. 

Marriott has been conveniently silent on this to enrolled owners. This is a primary reason many people paid thousands of dollars to enroll their week(s). Many have stated in other threads "your trade is still free, but you now have to pay the upgrade fee." This of course makes the free Marriott to Marriott exchange, not free any more. 
And, if followed logically:

What if II adds a $25 fee for a Marriott with a washer/dryer in unit? Or a $50 fee for exchanging into a Marriott with a full kitchen? Or a $75 fee for exchanging into a Marriott with a golf course on site?  Or a $200 fee for exchanging into a Marriott within 1 mile of a beach?  Or an extra $250 fee if you exchange into a Marriott during summer, spring break or winter break?

Then your trade from Newport Coast 2BR to a summer Ko Olina 1BR would be "free", but you would pay  $600 for this "free" Marriott to Marriott exchange. 

I know, I know, "terms and conditions can change."


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## NboroGirl (Jul 30, 2016)

I just keep thinking of all the times Interval called me regarding some exchange request I had made, asking if I would consider taking a SMALLER unit.  Next time they do this I will ask if they would consider giving me $99 for each downgrade size. HA!


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## davidvel (Jul 31, 2016)

NboroGirl said:


> I just keep thinking of all the times Interval called me regarding some exchange request I had made, asking if I would consider taking a SMALLER unit.  Next time they do this I will ask if they would consider giving me $99 for each downgrade size. HA!


Ding, ding, ding.


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## Swice (Jul 31, 2016)

*Now I'll think twice*

Traditionally, we would deposit strong holiday weeks (example Christmas or Thanksgiving) of a Lakeshore Reserve one bedroom into Interval.    We would typically use that platinum week for what amounted to a gold week at Myrtle Beach or Hilton Head.    I considered my change of seasons a somewhat "fair" exchange.     Obviously, Myrtle Beach and Hilton Head only have two bedroom units... so I really don't have a choice but to pay the upgrade charge!!!     But because spring is a "lower" season according to Marriott, it looks like it might be better for me to use DC points and stay six nights with a lesser view.   

Adding the fee will make me think twice about depositing, because the difference between the fee and the skim will be a lot less.    But using DC points will then allow me to select my property and view rather than playing the Interval roulette game and waiting to see what I land on.   

A couple of years ago, Interval changed the bonus week/accommodation certificates so that they were more difficult to use.    Because they became relatively useless to me, there was one less "nudge" to deposit into Interval.   I found myself renting and actually made some money.

This latest fee change removes another "nudge" to deposit into Interval.    

No, of course I'm not going to boldly declare that I will never use Interval again.    Now that I don't have those little nudges as part of the decision process, I'm certainly less likely to automatically deposit.    

The result is what the Marriott sales team predicted when the DC points program was created:    that Interval would slowly get fewer and fewer Marriott weeks.


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## tschwa2 (Jul 31, 2016)

davidvel said:


> Interesting how this is coming from II, but nothing from Marriott. In fact, the enrollment disclosures still state:
> 
> This is no longer true. You now have to pay upwards up $200 for certain Marriott to Marriott trades. Note there is no exception, footnote, etc. stating that certain Marriott to Marriott trades carry a fee.
> 
> ...



If you hadn't enrolled you would still have to pay the upgrade fee in addition to the exchange fee.  So every year you are still saving on the *"separate fees for Interval International® membership, exchanges to other Marriott Vacation Club resorts"*  If II adds other fees you would pay them just like everybody else Marriott enrolled or not, and non Marriott owners.  You still are saving on the two promised II fees, you still are saving on any lock off fees, you also have the option of skipping II altogether and using points, an option non enrolled legacy owners don't have.  I don't see how you can claim you aren't getting what you paid for.  It isn't a Marriott issue, the extra fee is a II member issue and applies to everyone. I wouldn't be surprised if II didn't go to Marriott and offer to bundle in the fees for an additional $100-$200 per Marriott enrolled member and Marriott could have passed that through on the annual fee.  Even at $200 per member extra, it would have benefited those who make 3 or more size uptrades per year.  It would have totally skewed over those who make 1 or no II exchanges per year.  Marriott certainly wasn't going to eat the extra fee and rather than pass it on to everyone whether they used II or not or used II to uptrade in size or not.


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## bazzap (Jul 31, 2016)

tschwa2 said:


> If you hadn't enrolled you would still have to pay the upgrade fee in addition to the exchange fee.  So every year you are still saving on the *"separate fees for Interval International® membership, exchanges to other Marriott Vacation Club resorts"*  If II adds other fees you would pay them just like everybody else Marriott enrolled or not, and non Marriott owners.  You still are saving on the two promised II fees, you still are saving on any lock off fees, you also have the option of skipping II altogether and using points, an option non enrolled legacy owners don't have.  I don't see how you can claim you aren't getting what you paid for.  It isn't a Marriott issue, the extra fee is a II member issue and applies to everyone. I wouldn't be surprised if II didn't go to Marriott and offer to bundle in the fees for an additional $100-$200 per Marriott enrolled member and Marriott could have passed that through on the annual fee.  Even at $200 per member extra, it would have benefited those who make 3 or more size uptrades per year.  It would have totally skewed over those who make 1 or no II exchanges per year.  Marriott certainly wasn't going to eat the extra fee and rather than pass it on to everyone whether they used II or not or used II to uptrade in size or not.


The real issue for me though is the way in which Interval have introduced these upgrade fees.
No advance notification to members (or MVC), supposedly as a result of research with member focus groups (I would like to see those results) and I believe contrary to the DC Points Programme agreement I signed up to back in 2010.
OK this does not specifically reference upgrade fees, but it certainly does not imply exclusions of these or any other fees either.

"Owners who elect to enroll agree to pay annual Exchange Program Dues based on their Owner Recognition Level. These Dues range from $165 to $199, and you'll also enjoy a simplified fee structure, so you don't have to pay separate fees for Interval International, Inc. membership, exchanges to other Marriott Vacation Club resorts or trading for Marriott Rewards points. Enrolled Owners will still be required to pay the annual maintenance fees due and owing each year to their resort's owners association."


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## tschwa2 (Jul 31, 2016)

I think II made up their mind to increase the fees the moment they sent out those surveys.  I didn't get one but heard about it here II Survey-.

Since 2 of ILG's child companies used this model (TPI and VRI) they may have had access to their data as well.  I wouldn't be surprised if they didn't ask the questions in such a way as to get the answers they wanted.  Have you ever taken a larger sized unit when didn't need it,  If there was a financial incentive to take a smaller unit would you take it even if there was a bigger unit available, etc.  II was looking for an additional source of income, thus the fees.


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## bazzap (Jul 31, 2016)

tschwa2 said:


> I think II made up their mind to increase the fees the moment they sent out those surveys.  I didn't get one but heard about it here II Survey-.
> 
> Since 2 of ILG's child companies used this model (TPI and VRI) they may have had access to their data as well.  I wouldn't be surprised if they didn't ask the questions in such a way as to get the answers they wanted.  Have you ever taken a larger sized unit when didn't need it,  If there was a financial incentive to take a smaller unit would you take it even if there was a bigger unit available, etc.  II was looking for an additional source of income, thus the fees.


You may well be right.
They definitely did introduce the upgrade fees very, very soon after issuing the survey.
All I know is that I did receive and complete the survey and they most certainly did not base their decision on my response.


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## kds4 (Aug 1, 2016)

Swice said:


> Traditionally, we would deposit strong holiday weeks (example Christmas or Thanksgiving) of a Lakeshore Reserve one bedroom into Interval.    We would typically use that platinum week for what amounted to a gold week at Myrtle Beach or Hilton Head.    I considered my change of seasons a somewhat "fair" exchange.     Obviously, Myrtle Beach and Hilton Head only have two bedroom units... so I really don't have a choice but to pay the upgrade charge!!!     But because spring is a "lower" season according to Marriott, it looks like it might be better for me to use DC points and stay six nights with a lesser view.
> 
> Adding the fee will make me think twice about depositing, because the difference between the fee and the skim will be a lot less.    But using DC points will then allow me to select my property and view rather than playing the Interval roulette game and waiting to see what I land on. A couple of years ago, Interval changed the bonus week/accommodation certificates so that they were more difficult to use.    Because they became relatively useless to me, there was one less "nudge" to deposit into Interval.   I found myself renting and actually made some money.
> 
> ...



It also places you higher in the 'pecking order' on property as owners get preference in assignments before II exchanges. Having gone to MOW both via II exchange and using DC points, we have found this to be a tangible benefit (building requests, higher floor, corner versus center unit, etc.)


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## bazzap (Aug 1, 2016)

kds4 said:


> It also places you higher in the 'pecking order' on property as owners get preference in assignments before II exchanges. Having gone to MOW both via II exchange and using DC points, we have found this to be a tangible benefit (building requests, higher floor, corner versus center unit, etc.)


If you combine II weeks exchanges with home weeks bookings though, my experience is that "home" weeks ownership gets you preference in assignments for the full stay including the II exchanges.


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## Superchief (Aug 2, 2016)

Swice said:


> We would typically use that platinum week for what amounted to a gold week at Myrtle Beach or Hilton Head.    I considered my change of seasons a somewhat "fair" exchange.     Obviously, Myrtle Beach and Hilton Head only have two bedroom units... so I really don't have a choice but to pay the upgrade charge!!!     But because spring is a "lower" season according to Marriott, it looks like it might be better for me to use DC points and stay six nights with a lesser view.
> 
> Adding the fee will make me think twice about depositing, because the difference between the fee and the skim will be a lot less.    But using DC points will then allow me to select my property and view rather than playing the Interval roulette game and waiting to see what I land on.
> 
> ...



I agree. We now only use II to exchange our MVC weeks that have low VC point values. If we get an 'upgrade' for an II exchange, it is because we are exchanging a higher demand studio or 1BR to a low demand 2BR. I can accomplish the same thing using VC points without the fees.

I never exchange into non-MVC resorts because of II's policy of charging the external exchange fee even if you end up at a MVC property rather than a requested non-MVC.


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## Swice (Aug 3, 2016)

Superchief said:


> I never exchange into non-MVC resorts because of II's policy of charging the external exchange fee even if you end up at a MVC property rather than a requested non-MVC.



I have never understood that one.    I used to think I was being "flexible" when I was lumping non-Marriott properties into my requests.    I learned being agreeable would cost me money, so I stopped being agreeable.


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## youcanfly (Aug 3, 2016)

*II deposit with spilt unit L/O*

Since I only deposit one of my units with II (and only once a year) I have apparently missed a change on how I can use my L/O and hopefully book a larger unit. I'm typically flexible with places and dates and have always had great success with using deluxe room only and getting a 2 or 3 bedroom unit. Today I decided to start looking for next year and was surprised to see a charge for booking a larger unit! I realize this was always a perk but very disappointed. When did this go into effect and what should I know? Does this only apply to Marriott properties?


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## Ken555 (Aug 3, 2016)

Long thread on this topic already.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## tschwa2 (Aug 3, 2016)

Applies to all properties and went into effect around June 26, 2016.  During flexchange (59 days) no charge to confirm into a larger unit.


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## youcanfly (Aug 3, 2016)

Thanks for quick response. I haven't kept up with things so was completely caught off guard. I have forgotten but how do I search for the thread on this topic?


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## SueDonJ (Aug 3, 2016)

youcanfly said:


> Since I only deposit one of my units with II (and only once a year) I have apparently missed a change on how I can use my L/O and hopefully book a larger unit. I'm typically flexible with places and dates and have always had great success with using deluxe room only and getting a 2 or 3 bedroom unit. Today I decided to start looking for next year and was surprised to see a charge for booking a larger unit! I realize this was always a perk but very disappointed. When did this go into effect and what should I know? Does this only apply to Marriott properties?



I've merged your post/thread into the ongoing one on the Marriott forum.  There's also a related thread in the Exchanging forum:  Interval international unit size upgrade fee??


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## youcanfly (Aug 3, 2016)

Thank you. I apparently have a lot to catch up on!


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## NboroGirl (Aug 3, 2016)

Swice said:


> I have never understood that one.    I used to think I was being "flexible" when I was lumping non-Marriott properties into my requests.    I learned being agreeable would cost me money, so I stopped being agreeable.



What he said.  

Now, if they charged that non-Marriott fee only for exchanges into non-Marriott properties, I would add non-Marriott properties to my requests, but since that's not the case, we only request Marriotts as well.


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## youcanfly (Aug 3, 2016)

So to be clear, as an owner who pays yearly taxes and maintenance to Marriott, if I L/O my unit and trade for an off season week that is for a larger unit, I am supposed to pay a fee from 99/198/297 OR I could simply book a getaway for same week at less than half what it will cost me? for example I am looking at simply weeks at Cypress Harbour in Orlando for off season. In October getaways are currently 577 range. If I exchange I pay the exchange fee 79+198? plus what I pay in maintenance, its starting to become more of a hassle than the value is worth. Need to start thinking of how to use my non/MVC unit other than II.


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## dioxide45 (Aug 3, 2016)

youcanfly said:


> So to be clear, as an owner who pays yearly taxes and maintenance to Marriott, if I L/O my unit and trade for an off season week that is for a larger unit, I am supposed to pay a fee from 99/198/297 OR I could simply book a getaway for same week at less than half what it will cost me? for example I am looking at simply weeks at Cypress Harbour in Orlando for off season. In October getaways are currently 577 range. If I exchange I pay the exchange fee 79+198? plus what I pay in maintenance, its starting to become more of a hassle than the value is worth. Need to start thinking of how to use my non/MVC unit other than II.



You got it right. Though as pointed out to me in another thread, off season Orlando isn't the best example. Getaways in the fall are always cheap. It was never a real good deal to trade your week for Orlando, even a Marriott studio when you can often get a 2BR getaway for a few hundred dollars.


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## abg1688 (Aug 29, 2016)

*II trading up fee*

I was just doing a mock trade in II and saw trade up fees of 99 (studio to 1BR), 198 (studio to 2BR) and 297 (studio to 3BR) popping up.  Is this something new?  Does it also apply to Marriott II members?  Thank you!


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## SueDonJ (Aug 29, 2016)

abg1688 said:


> I was just doing a mock trade in II and saw trade up fees of 99 (studio to 1BR), 198 (studio to 2BR) and 297 (studio to 3BR) popping up.  Is this something new?  Does it also apply to Marriott II members?  Thank you!



Note your post has been merged into an ongoing thread.  Read further up in the thread and you'll see that these fees are not covered in the corporate II accounts for DC-enrolled Weeks.


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## IuLiKa (Aug 29, 2016)

wow.. I am just trying to catch up with all the posts, I just realized this couple of days ago, as I was looking for an exchange to KoOlina.. bad bad news..
our AC certificates are worthless now everybody tries to nickel and dime.. travel is getting more and more expensive.


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## thinze3 (Sep 1, 2016)

How will trading up work with an ongoing search.  Imagine that you deposit a 1BR Marriott on a request first basis and a 2BR Marriott comes up as available for your ongoing search.

Will the trade go through, or will you automatically get bypassed?


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## Saintsfanfl (Sep 1, 2016)

thinze3 said:


> How will trading up work with an ongoing search.  Imagine that you deposit a 1BR Marriott on a request first basis and a 2BR Marriott comes up as available for your ongoing search.
> 
> Will the trade go through, or will you automatically get bypassed?



The match would go into pending and you would get a call to ask if you want to pay the upgrade fee.


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## tschwa2 (Sep 1, 2016)

No one has reported that this has happened yet (that they actually received a call for a potential larger match) as far as I know, either here or on the II forum.


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## Quilter (Sep 5, 2016)

8 pages in this thread.   I may have missed this thought if it was already presented by someone else:

I've traded our studios many times for 2 bedroom properties, mostly a prime Plat. week for an off-season.   Like others I thought that was just about equal since prime studios are almost as readily available as off-season 2 bedrooms.

When I would use my studio to look on-line it generally wasn't strong enough to see 2 bedroom opportunities if they were further out than 60 days.  Sometimes if I used a 2 bedroom to look and found availability I could call II and ask them to use my studio.   If a rep saw it they would put me on hold and come back with a yes or no that my studio would work.   This was getting more difficult in the most recent years as II seemed to be tightening up on the opportunity.   

So now, I'm seeing 1 and 2 bedrooms months ahead but they come with a price.   I don't like paying another fee any more than others do but if I really want to secure a trade using my studio I am more readily given the opportunity.   Within 60 days of check-in there's no fee.

I've been working on a trade in Dec. for HHI and find some availability.   The fee has held me back.  Been looking with DC points too.   Considering taking the gamble to see what shows up within the 60-day period.

Have others also thought about using their studios mostly for the <60-day trades?


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## bazzap (Sep 5, 2016)

We have always used our studios for upgrades >60 days out and continue to do so even with the new fees.
The problem for us here in Europe seeking upgrades <60 days out is the difficulty/cost of late trans atlantic flights as we have so few resorts here.
I may now though start looking seriously at upgrades <60 days out in European MVC resorts.


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## klpca (Sep 5, 2016)

Quilter said:


> 8 pages in this thread.   I may have missed this thought if it was already presented by someone else:
> 
> I've traded our studios many times for 2 bedroom properties, mostly a prime Plat. week for an off-season.   Like others I thought that was just about equal since prime studios are almost as readily available as off-season 2 bedrooms.
> 
> ...



I like your thinking. Tuggers will always come up with creative solutions to adapt the the changing landscape. Your plan will work best for drive-to locations.

I have had the mother of all crappy studio trades sitting in my account for nearly a year - a flex restricted studio (and a work restricted travel window. It has been an interesting year). Yes, there are a lot more uptrades out there for a studio during flex, but they come and go quickly (I'm shopping Hawaii) and in flex there's no ongoing search. It will require a lot of searching to get the uptrade unless you are looking to travel to an area where the supply of two bedroom units is plentiful (orlando, and HHI winter weeks come to mind). I managed to find a studio with almost the right days by making a flex trade then adding eplus to trade +60 days out and I'm happy to have it. I am obsessively searching for an uptrade and based upon what I am seeing, I think that I will be able to make it work, but I will be searching almost up to check in, I suspect.


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## krj9999 (Sep 5, 2016)

Have you looked at Getaways for HHI on your travel dates?  May be an option instead, and save your studio for another trade (unless it is expiring).



Quilter said:


> I've been working on a trade in Dec. for HHI and find some availability.   The fee has held me back.  Been looking with DC points too.   Considering taking the gamble to see what shows up within the 60-day period.
> 
> Have others also thought about using their studios mostly for the <60-day trades?


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## Quilter (Sep 5, 2016)

krj9999 said:


> Have you looked at Getaways for HHI on your travel dates?  May be an option instead, and save your studio for another trade (unless it is expiring).



Thank you for the suggestion.   I don't generally look at Getaways.   There isn't anything available for our dates.   I searched more options, though, to compare the Getaway prices to what I guesstimate is the cost of our studio.   In lowest season the Getaway beats using the studio, especially when you tack on the upgrade fee.  

I don't know how others figure the cost of a studio but I guesstimate the "cost" somewhere between 1/3 to 1/2 the m/f.    The "value" is much higher since it can rent at $1,000-$1,500.


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## hajjah (Sep 6, 2016)

Ok, so I bit the bullet and paid the $198 upgrade fee at 4:00 AM this morning for Newport Coast Villas in a two bedroom during the first week in December.  I have been searching for this resort for months.  My unit is a studio, which I have been exchanging since 2012 with II. I usually travel within the 60 window, but since this exchange is so difficult, I decided to pay that crazy fee.  We stayed at this resort last year in November.  It was one of the best vacations ever.  Now, I can book my airfare and rental car for LAX.  I know that SNA (John Wayne Airport) is closer, but the flights from the east coast were not working without a connection.


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## Quilter (Sep 6, 2016)

hajjah said:


> Ok, so I bit the bullet and paid the $198 upgrade fee at 4:00 AM this morning for Newport Coast Villas in a two bedroom during the first week in December.  I have been searching for this resort for months.  My unit is a studio, which I have been exchanging since 2012 with II. I usually travel within the 60 window, but since this exchange is so difficult, I decided to pay that crazy fee.  We stayed at this resort last year in November.  It was one of the best vacations ever.  Now, I can book my airfare and rental car for LAX.  I know that SNA (John Wayne Airport) is closer, but the flights from the east coast were not working without a connection.



What resort is your studio from?

Please tell us why the vacation last year was the best.   

Were all the connections from LAX to SNA?  If so, were they such long delays that you'd rather just get a car and drive the same connection?


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## thinze3 (Sep 6, 2016)

tschwa2 said:


> No one has reported that this has happened yet (that they actually received a call for a potential larger match) as far as I know, either here or on the II forum.



I am wondering if you can offer to pay upfront for an upgrade on an ongoing search and then get refunded if your match is not an upgrade.


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## Big Matt (Sep 6, 2016)

That would be the easy answer


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## davidvel (Sep 6, 2016)

Quilter said:


> What resort is your studio from?
> 
> Please tell us why the vacation last year was the best.
> 
> Were all the connections from LAX to SNA?  If so, were they such long delays that you'd rather just get a car and drive the same connection?


There are no flights between these airports,  they are about 40 miles apart.


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## GetawaysRus (Sep 6, 2016)

thinze3 said:


> I am wondering if you can offer to pay upfront for an upgrade on an ongoing search and then get refunded if your match is not an upgrade.



I have an OGS for a resort that only has 2BR units.  I'm using a 1BR for the search.

II collected their usual exchange fee to place the OGS.  They did not ask me to pay the upgrade fee, but I understand that I will have to pay that fee if I get a match.

I did not think about asking to pay the upgrade fee in advance.  Your comment makes me wonder if pre-paying for the upgrade would make it more likely that I'd get a match?  If II knows that they're going to get that extra profit, would that move me higher on the pecking order for getting the trade?  My suspicion is that the upgrade fees are new enough that their computer systems might not be able to accept an upgrade fee paid in advance?


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## tschwa2 (Sep 6, 2016)

There currently is no option to prepay the upgrade fee when starting an ongoing search.  Agents have indicated that they are working on that option for the near future.


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## hajjah (Sep 6, 2016)

I cannot tell you where my resort is located because I only purchased it to trade.  It actually is a dump in FL.  I have been trading my hotel unit into some of the best resorts within the 60 day window for 2-3 bedrooms, i.e Lakeshore Reserve townhouses, Aruba Surf Club yearly and other nice resorts.   So, of course I was taken aback when II changed the rules, but it is still worth it for me to exchange into 2 bedroom units.  

My friend has to fly from EWR (Newark,NJ) to either LAX or SNA.  The difference in cost is about $275, so since LAX has more non-stop flights, we are planning to use LAX.  United only has one flight leaving SNA non-stop at 7:15 AM, but the cost is $602.  The flight to LAX is $326.  We will just have to deal with the traffic getting to and from LAX.  As for the connecting flights, they were in Denver, Chicago and a few others cold states, which we definitely would not think of traveling through during the winter months.

Last year I stayed at Newport Coast Villas and it was a wonderful experience. The resort is one of the best.  The restaurants were great and driving up and down the coast was breath taking.  We booked a tour from the resort to Hollywood.  I really liked the ambiance of the resort.


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## SmithOp (Sep 6, 2016)

hajjah said:


> I cannot tell you where my resort is located because I only purchased it to trade.  It actually is a dump in FL.  I have been trading my hotel unit into some of the best resorts within the 60 day window for 2-3 bedrooms, i.e Lakeshore Reserve townhouses, Aruba Surf Club yearly and other nice resorts.   So, of course I was taken aback when II changed the rules, but it is still worth it for me to exchange into 2 bedroom units.
> 
> My friend has to fly from EWR (Newark,NJ) to either LAX or SNA.  The difference in cost is about $275, so since LAX has more non-stop flights, we are planning to use LAX.  United only has one flight leaving SNA non-stop at 7:15 AM, but the cost is $602.  The flight to LAX is $326.  We will just have to deal with the traffic getting to and from LAX.  As for the connecting flights, they were in Denver, Chicago and a few others cold states, which we definitely would not think of traveling through during the winter months.
> 
> Last year I stayed at Newport Coast Villas and it was a wonderful experience. The resort is one of the best.  The restaurants were great and driving up and down the coast was breath taking.  We booked a tour from the resort to Hollywood.  I really liked the ambiance of the resort.





Jetblue flies Wed/Thur/Sun between Newark and Long Beach for $198 each way. There are also flights from NY.  Long Beach airport is a little closer and a lot less traffic than LAX, there is a major construction project right now.

http://lawa.org/newsContent.aspx?ID=2219


Sent from my iPad Mini 4 using Tapatalk


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## Quilter (Sep 6, 2016)

hajjah said:


> . . .
> 
> As for the connecting flights, they were in Denver, Chicago and a few others cold states, which we definitely would not think of traveling through during the winter months.
> 
> Last year I stayed at Newport Coast Villas and it was a wonderful experience. The resort is one of the best.  The restaurants were great and driving up and down the coast was breath taking.  We booked a tour from the resort to Hollywood.  I really liked the ambiance of the resort.



Avoiding a connection because of possible winter conditions makes sense.   Thanks for clarifying.   When my daughter lived in Fayettevile, NC I could easily get caught midway in storms because there were no straight flights.  

Once lost a day on a Dec. vacation to Aruba because a snow squall hit DTW just before we were supposed to board.   We boarded after a short delay but our plane got stuck in a snowbank created by the plows at the deicing area.   We had to wait for a tow to get out.   That created a mechanical problem with the plane so we had to go back to the terminal to change planes.   We got stuck again because the pilot drove into another pile of snow.   Waited for another tow.   We deboarded 4 hours after boarding and hadn't gone anywhere.   By the time we made it to Atlanta we had missed our connection and had to stay overnight.


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## hajjah (Sep 6, 2016)

What! I cannot thank Dave (SmithOp) enough for posting his message.  I am in the south and had no idea of the construction going on at LAX.  We are going to need to pay the additional monies and have my friend fly into SNA.  There is no way that I want to be driving around LAX with all that construction.  
You Tuggers are the best ever, to which I've been a very satisfied TUG member, probably since 1998.  Ok, so now to check for flights into SNA.  Forget LAX.

I don't know anything about Long Beach, but I will check on that as well.  Thanks so much.

PS
Ok, so I just checked the flights to Long Beach from EWR.  The connection is in Boston with an approx. total travel time of 10 hours.  Boston gets snowed in so we would not want to have her travel there as well.  She'll do good if she makes it out of EWR without snow. The return flight is a red eye not arriving until the next morning.  Thanks anyway for your help.  It looks like my friend will have to stick with United out of EWR to SNA and pay the $601.00 for the non-stop.  At least we tried.


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## Quilter (Sep 7, 2016)

hajjah said:


> What! I cannot thank Dave (SmithOp) enough for posting his message.  I am in the south and had no idea of the construction going on at LAX.  We are going to need to pay the additional monies and have my friend fly into SNA.  There is no way that I want to be driving around LAX with all that construction.
> You Tuggers are the best ever, to which I've been a very satisfied TUG member, probably since 1998.  Ok, so now to check for flights into SNA.  Forget LAX.
> 
> I don't know anything about Long Beach, but I will check on that as well.  Thanks so much.
> ...



What about her flying into LAX and then hopping on this train for you to pick her up closer to Palm Desert:  http://www.metrolinktrains.com/trip...stom=0&to_custom=0&plantrip.x=54&plantrip.y=7

Seems like a very EWR or European way to travel.


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## Ken555 (Sep 7, 2016)

Quilter said:


> What about her flying into LAX and then hopping on this train for you to pick her up closer to Palm Desert:  http://www.metrolinktrains.com/trip...stom=0&to_custom=0&plantrip.x=54&plantrip.y=7
> 
> Seems like a very EWR or European way to travel.





It's not European when you have to be on a bus for 30+ minutes.


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## hajjah (Sep 7, 2016)

Ok, so here is what she did.  She booked her flight today from EWR to SNA with a connection in Phoenix.  The connection is only 1 hour :15 minutes for both directions.  The fare was $407, which is still better than paying $601 for the non-stop.  I just booked the rental car on Alamo for $224.  As for me, I now have to wait a few days for my flights from the south since it went up today.  I will have to stay overnight near the airport to fly back at a decent time without a connection, which I don't mind.  Marriott hotels are very close to SNA.  I'll take the car back on that Saturday after my friend checks in, then drop my luggage at the hotel before turning in the car.  The hotel has a free shuttle to the airport the following day.  
I'd like to check for some tours now from the resort.  Last year I did the Hollywood tour, which was so-so.  We only got to see a few of the celebs homes, but time was spent at Universal Studios (too long) and a few other stops that could have been avoided.  Oh, we did see Mario Lopez and I got some Omaha Steaks for free and a Zenni Eyewear gift card for $50.


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## Thunder Up (Sep 7, 2016)

You might want to check Southwest between Newark and Orange County.  Just checked their fares between Newark and Orange County on 12/3 and 12/10.  Fares were $173 and $177 each way or $350 round trip.

Thunder Up


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## hajjah (Sep 8, 2016)

Thanks, Thunder Up.  I just checked the flights on Southwest.  They won't work for her since the connections are in St. Louis.  Or, flying via Las Vegas and Phoenix have arrivals after 8:00 PM, which is definitely a no.  I appreciate your help.  My friend booked with American, but I'm still waiting to see if my rates go down by this weekend.


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## TravlinDuo (Sep 11, 2016)

I didn't realize that a restriction still existed for online instant exchanges when it came to unit size (MVC to MVC exchange) given we could elect to pay the upgrade fee. I am not able to see an MVC 2BR Sept 2017 unit with an MVC studio but can see it using a MVC 1BR unit. Does this sound right?

SueB


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## klpca (Sep 11, 2016)

TravlinDuo said:


> I didn't realize that a restriction still existed for online instant exchanges when it came to unit size (MVC to MVC exchange) given we could elect to pay the upgrade fee. I am not able to see an MVC 2BR Sept 2017 unit with an MVC studio but can see it using a MVC 1BR unit. Does this sound right?
> 
> SueB



Frustratingly, yes. Studios can't see a lot of two bedroom units. Perhaps call them to see if they will match it for you if you offer to pay the uptrade fee? Let us know what they say.


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## tschwa2 (Sep 11, 2016)

You can see more larger units with a studio now but there are still restrictions.  I wouldn't expect to see a 2 br unit with a studio (except in off off off season and/or off brand units in high inventory locations) until about 4-6 months prior vs flextime in the past.  They still want the larger units to have first shot at the larger units even with the fee in place.   

They haven't done away with the trading formula, they have relaxed it somewhat and added the fee.


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## cgeidl (Sep 11, 2016)

*Upgrade fee is fair but where"s the downgrade credit??*

I feel if you get a larger unit there should be an upgrade fee. I also feel that a two bedroom unit traded for a one BR unit should get the same credit as the upgrade cost.Will this ever happen?


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## Quilter (Sep 12, 2016)

I don't see upgrade completely fair if a resort doesn't offer studios or 1 bedroom units.   A 1 bedroom would be perfectly fine at one of the HHI properties.  Since they're not available I see it's more fair to charge 1 step upgrade instead of 2.


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## Luckybee (Dec 26, 2016)

Does anyone know how the new fee structure affects those of us who own 1 bdrm units and previously had the ability to request space at properties that only had 2bdrm units or larger. When we purchased and it is in our original documentation we were given the ability of requesting a trade to a Marriott that did not have 1 bdrm units and we could request 2 bdrm + only properties as well. Now when I look at the properties I can request it is not allowing this on-line. I can't even see in the list of resorts available any resort that does not have 1 bdrms. Does this mean I have to call in or have they taken this ability away, and if so how have they done so ?

_[Threads merged. <-- SueDonJ]_


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## samara64 (Dec 26, 2016)

I just tried to put a request with a studio for a 2BR in MOW and it worked but do not think it will ever hit.


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## VacationForever (Dec 26, 2016)

You should be able to request (in II) for resorts with only 2BR units.  When there is a match, II agents are supposed to call you and ask if you wanted the week and pay the upgrade fee.


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## Luckybee (Dec 26, 2016)

VacationForever said:


> You should be able to request (in II) for resorts with only 2BR units.  When there is a match, II agents are supposed to call you and ask if you wanted the week and pay the upgrade fee.



I thought we should too and have always been able to in the past but today I was going to make a request for May or June of 2018 well ahead of the units being deposited for Hawaii. We've been able to do this many times prior with our 1 bdrm Aruba OC weeks. Properties such as Waiohai did not even show up in the list of properties and the page would only allow me to choose either studio or 1 bdrm. In other words online we couldn't do it. I plan to call in the am but was wondering what the status was. Both the weeks im using are deposit first weeks if that matters ?


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## VacationForever (Dec 26, 2016)

I tried and I had no problem putting in a request for 2BR-only resort, with my deposited 1BR week.


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## Luckybee (Dec 26, 2016)

Unfortunately my question was not answered before it was merged into this thread(which I looked at but it wasn't on point)....so Im still hoping for an answer if anyone knows....there are resorts Aruba Ocean Club being one of them where we have it built in to our original documents allowing us the ability to request 2 bdrm weeks with only 1 bdrm ownership. Does the new system with II still account for this ? Im not concerned with the fee aspect of this as much as the ability to make the request with a deposited week which II isn't allowing me to do online.


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## Luckybee (Dec 26, 2016)

VacationForever said:


> I tried and I had no problem putting in a request for 2BR-only resort, with my deposited 1BR week.


Were you able to see resorts that only have 2 bdrm weeks and above because Im not seeing them at all ?


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## VacationForever (Dec 26, 2016)

If you are referring to online inventory, you should be able to see 2BR with a 1BR if there is available inventory.  Otherwise you will need to put in a request.  If you are using a studio, most of the time it won't be able to see 2BR units at quality resorts at peak season, even if there is inventory that is currently available.


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## Luckybee (Dec 27, 2016)

VacationForever said:


> If you are referring to online inventory, you should be able to see 2BR with a 1BR if there is available inventory.  Otherwise you will need to put in a request.  If you are using a studio, most of the time it won't be able to see 2BR units at quality resorts at peak season, even if there is inventory that is currently available.



Not what I meant sorry...what I was doing is taking an already deposited week and putting in a request for Kauai. When I did so resorts that had only 2 bdrms and above were not on the prepopulated drop down list that were requestable (is that even a word  )

I had never seen this happen before as we were always able to book 2 bdrms by deposit/request since it was part of our original agreement so I was surmising that this was as a result of the new II fee structure but was wondering if anyone else in this situation had dealt with this before. To the best of my knowledge there were only a few resorts built with a high proportion of 1 bdrm units where the "guarantee " (as it related to the ability to request a 2 bdrm when the requesting resort did not have 1 bdrms) was made in the documentation.


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## VacationForever (Dec 27, 2016)

..and my answer remains the same, you can put in a request for 2Br only Marriott resorts.  I tried and there is not an issue.  If there is not a drop down, you can directly put in the code.


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## dioxide45 (Dec 27, 2016)

Even when putting in a request using a studio or 1BR for a property that only has 2BR units, you have to "trick" the system and tell it you are willing to stay in a studio or 1BR unit. I have never selected resorts from a drop down when placing a request until after I either entered the code or started to enter the name and then the drop down populates with matches.


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## bazzap (Dec 28, 2016)

dioxide45 said:


> Even when putting in a request using a studio or 1BR for a property that only has 2BR units, you have to "trick" the system and tell it you are willing to stay in a studio or 1BR unit. I have never selected resorts from a drop down when placing a request until after I either entered the code or started to enter the name and then the drop down populates with matches.


I have never actually thought about this, as we always place an Ongoing search by phone with our Interval rep if we are using a studio or 1BR for a property that only has 2BR units,


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## cp73 (Dec 28, 2016)

Luckybee said:


> I had never seen this happen before as we were always able to book 2 bdrms by deposit/request since it was part of our original agreement



Probably what the sales person told you and not part of any legal agreement/documents.


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## Sugarcubesea (Dec 28, 2016)

davidvel said:


> Ding, ding, ding.



Since I own only 2 Bedrooms, I will no longer accept a trade for anything but a 2 Bedroom.  Since I would not get a refund to downgrade their is no reason to do so.  I so agree with your statement. Thanks


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## BocaBoy (Dec 28, 2016)

Luckybee said:


> ...there are resorts Aruba Ocean Club being one of them where we have it built in to our original documents allowing us the ability to request 2 bdrm weeks with only 1 bdrm ownership. Does the new system with II still account for this ?


Yes, Maui Ocean Club original towers was another such resort if you owned a 1BR week (not a lock off).  Also Custom House.  The big deal with this provision was that owners of dedicated 1BR weeks (not lockoffs) at these resorts (there were 3 or 4 other resorts on the list also) were guaranteed that their 1BR week would trade with the power of a 2BR, not just that you could put in a request.  I would hope that the II system still accounts for this and without an upgrade fee.


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## bazzap (Dec 28, 2016)

BocaBoy said:


> Yes, Maui Ocean Club original towers was another such resort if you owned a 1BR week (not a lock off).  Also Custom House.  The big deal with this provision was that owners of dedicated 1BR weeks (not lockoffs) at these resorts (there were 3 or 4 other resorts on the list also) were guaranteed that their 1BR week would trade with the power of a 2BR, not just that you could put in a request.  I would hope that the II system still accounts for this and without an upgrade fee.


That would certainly be interesting to know and if it was guaranteed contractually by MVC only right and reasonable to expect.
I would be very surprised though if Interval actually delivers it.


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## tschwa2 (Dec 28, 2016)

In the past, if I remember correctly there was only a rather vaguely written statement in the Marriott specific buyers guide on II about being able to request 2 br units at resorts that only offered units larger than one bedroom if you owned at specifically listed one bedroom Marriotts including Custom House and others.  I remember thinking big deal anyone can request with a smaller unit at 2br and larger only resorts.  The wording did not indicate any guarantees about trading power.  Since it was written before II implemented the upgrade fee it also didn't offer any guarantees about trading into larger units without additional fees if you owned at those specific resorts.


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## Saintsfanfl (Dec 28, 2016)

tschwa2 said:


> For  weeks based system the check in/check out dates could and should match for the same unit numbers.



I used to think that but I learned each resort can mix and match any way they want to. At Ocean Pointe I have been placed in a 1BR that checked in Saturday together with a Studio that checked in on Sunday.


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## Saintsfanfl (Dec 28, 2016)

tschwa2 said:


> In the past, if I remember correctly there was only a rather vaguely written statement in the Marriott specific buyers guide on II about being able to request 2 br units at resorts that only offered units larger than one bedroom if you owned at specifically listed one bedroom Marriotts including Custom House and others.  I remember thinking big deal anyone can request with a smaller unit at 2br and larger only resorts.  The wording did not indicate any guarantees about trading power.  Since it was written before II implemented the upgrade fee it also didn't offer any guarantees about trading into larger units without additional fees if you owned at those specific resorts.



I believe in other threads it is stated that Custom House can request a 2BR at resorts that have smaller than 2BR units. You can't do that with a regular 1BR. I could be wrong but I thought that is what was stated. It might not be clearly documented but I think the programming is set up that way.


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## dioxide45 (Dec 28, 2016)

Here is the exact wording from the II Buyers Guide for Marriott owners.



> MVCI Owners of one-bedroom unit Weeks at Marriott’s Aruba Ocean Club, Marriott’s Custom House, Marriott’s Grande Vista, Marriott’s Kauai Beach Club, Marriott’s Maui Ocean Club, and Marriott’s Mountain Valley Lodge at Breckenridge are eligible to request two-bedroom units at MVCI Resorts that do not have one-bedroom units



I take that to mean that someone should be able to use their 1BR to trade in to just about any other Marriott resort where Marriott didn't sell 1BR units. Not necessarily only resorts that have dedicated 2BR or 3BR units. Not really sure how it works exactly in practice.


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## Luckybee (Dec 29, 2016)

dioxide45 said:


> Here is the exact wording from the II Buyers Guide for Marriott owners.
> 
> 
> 
> I take that to mean that someone should be able to use their 1BR to trade in to just about any other Marriott resort where Marriott didn't sell 1BR units. Not necessarily only resorts that have dedicated 2BR or 3BR units. Not really sure how it works exactly in practice.



Thanks all for the responses. Had a bit of a family emerg so I haven't been able to follow up as I wanted to with II as of yet.

Dioxide...I don't know how it is going to work now but in the past we were always able to request any M trade using our 1 bdrm weeks regardless of whether the property had 1 bdrm units or not. What that meant was those properties that only had 2 bdrm + fixed units could be requested with a 1 bdrm trade and they would show up from the drop down menu using a destination instead of just a resort code (I cannot pull up using destination currently, although I have not yet checked with the resort code). I was told a number of years ago by our old II rep that there was increased trade value for those 1 bdrm weeks so that those owners would not effectively be "locked out " of getting 2 bdrm properties, and in the past we had 0 difficulty in getting into 2brm+ only resorts. I don't mind if we have to pay an upgrade fee (though I do believe it goes against the spirit of the original deal though perhaps not the specific language), but I will be a tad annoyed if we no longer have any higher priority from non owners for getting into those properties.


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## hangloose (Jan 9, 2017)

Well. I finally and reluctantly bit the bullet to pay the $99 unit size upgrade fee.  We found a 3 bedroom at Lakeshore Reserve and gave up an MGV 2 bedroom.  We toured years ago when Lakeshore was under construction, but haven't been to actually stay.  We normally go to MGV (where we own), but we've wanted to try out Lakeshore and decided to grab the 3 bedroom.  Lakeshore seems to be the harder of the MVC Orlando properties to exchange into for larger villa sizes, given the smaller number of villas it has on property.  Should be fun! I'm looking forward to seeing the 3 bedroom townhouse villa layout.


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## Saintsfanfl (Jan 10, 2017)

I haven't read this entire thread so I apologize if this has already been stated. I noticed yesterday that when I tried to exchange beyond my platinum expiration it still shows the reduced upgrade fee. Continuing it came to the renewal screen with a message that I must renew in order to keep the reduced upgrade fee. Ignoring the message still resulted in the reduced fee.


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## Luckybee (Jan 10, 2017)

I finally had time to look at our situation and follow up with Interval. In terms of details this is what we were doing... using 2 -1 bdrm wks Aruba OC already on deposit and requesting late April, May and beginning of June 2018(and once we match 1 week narrowing our 2nd request) for about 10 different resorts in Hawaii (many but not all were Marriotts). As I said I could not get the drop down menu to even list the resorts that were 2+ bdrms only. So I followed the advice on here and manually entered each code. The system seemed to add each one but when I went back in to check in pending request those resorts I mentioned were not added. So I called II. Rep could not advise as to why this kept happening. She even walked through trying to do so with the same result. Finally put me on hold for quite awhile and she was able to get them all listed. I'm probably too much of a conspiracy theorist but I can't help but wonder if this is intentional in that I expect those who purchased resale, or who haven't owned forever as we have might not be aware of the ability for certain 1bdrms to request , or alternatively perhaps a sign of things to come. I truly hope I'm entirely and completely wrong in my surmising and that perhaps it was just a glitch !


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## VacationForever (Jan 10, 2017)

Luckybee, I certainly do not have the same experience as yours.  I consistently add a bunch of 2BR resorts to my studio or 1BR OGS - just did several this week.


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## Luckybee (Jan 10, 2017)

VacationForever said:


> Luckybee, I certainly do not have the same experience as yours.  I consistently add a bunch of 2BR resorts to my studio or 1BR OGS - just did several this week.


And that is why I'm still holding out hope this was some kind of weird glitch . What bugs me though is that the rep couldn't do this easily either.


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