# Owners of Mayan Palace resorts



## nazclk (Oct 1, 2010)

If you bought from the developer and not resale, are you still warm and fuzzy, or are you made as hell??  Just a friendly survey


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## aliikai2 (Oct 1, 2010)

*You could do the same test for any resort where the buyers paid retail*

And you will get the same basic results. The bitterness of finding out you overpaid by thousands can sour almost any deal 

We bought our first MP of Ebay, and a Sea Garden from a Tugger for almost nothing, which we then traded in to Grupo Mayan for a 2 annual 2 bedrooms plus 2 VF weeks , no annual fees unless we use, Profile A rights, and a SEa pac and Maz pac  :whoopie:  

I am very happy, we have since bought another 9 assorted MP weeks, hotel units , 1 bedrooms and 2 bedroom lockouts, all resale of course, that when we go the the GM next March I might trade it all in to a full use condo in Nuevo, you never can tell... 

fwiw,

Greg


nazclk said:


> If you bought from the developer and not resale, are you still warm and fuzzy, or are you made as hell??  Just a friendly survey


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## mikenk (Oct 1, 2010)

nazclk said:


> If you bought from the developer and not resale, are you still warm and fuzzy, or are you made as hell??  Just a friendly survey



As I suspected, you designed your silly little survey in a totally biased way - just to measure the sales force, not the quality of the resort. I assume you will start a similar thread on all timeshares to get a similar comparative response. Right? i assume you want to be fair. 

i originally bought resale so i don't qualify, but i upgraded through Grupo Mayan and am very satisfied:
- I will pay back my upgrade costs within 5 years
- no MF unless I use; therefore no pressure ever to sell; my kids would kill me if i did.
- free golf for me and guests
- 2 free massages per week
- Wonderful resorts that are continually renovated and wonderfully maintained - with a great staff
- Real luxury in the units / maid service twice a day
- 50% discount on MF at 75; free after 77.
- Two bonus weeks a year to use - and we do every year.


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## PigsDad (Oct 1, 2010)

nazclk said:


> If you bought from the developer and not resale, are you still warm and fuzzy, or are you made as hell??  Just a friendly survey


Wow.  That's about as loaded of a question as the old "Have you stopped beating your wife?" question!  

Kurt


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## DeniseM (Oct 1, 2010)

Question:  Can't you LOVE the resort and HATE their sales practices?

Is it all or nothing?  

I have 3 Starwood resorts, and I love the resorts and can't stand the management.  

They are two completely different issues.


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## mikenk (Oct 1, 2010)

I absolutely agree that the sales practices of Grupo mayan Sales people and those of many other resorts should be condemned for their misrepresentations.

In an interesting twist, I have found the actual Grupo mayan contract people that report to the company are extremely above board and easy to deal with. They honor what is written in the contract and will negotiate things in the contract fairly and openly. It is a shame that they tacitly condone the verbal exaggerations of the sales people by not forcing real alignment of promises with the contract.

However, if you go in prepared, you can easily whip the sales force at their own game, frustrate them, and they will pass you on to the contracts people with whom you can actually negotiate. In my opinion, it does matter that the real  contracts people are straightforward to deal with. A lying sales force coupled  with an equally unethical contract administrators would be a disaster. 

Mike


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## DeniseM (Oct 1, 2010)

mikenk said:


> However, if you go in prepared, you can easily whip the sales force at their own game,



Absolutely, but by design, 99% of the people who go to these presentations are lured in by the gifts, and are not prepared at all, and then they are blatantly and intentionally lied to.  If they weren't lied to - then it would be a fair trade - you listen to an honest presentation in return for the gifts.  

I don't know how anyone can possibly defend this practice, in any company.


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## drguy (Oct 1, 2010)

nazclk said:


> If you bought from the developer and not resale, are you still warm and fuzzy, or are you made as hell??  Just a friendly survey



We purchased from Grupo Mayan and still enjoy the purchase.  Yes, we may have saved a few dollars buying resale, but the "investment" forced me to vacation.  I am glad that we did it and have had several friends utilize the resort too.


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## rpennisi (Oct 1, 2010)

nazclk said:


> If you bought from the developer and not resale, are you still warm and fuzzy, or are you made as hell??  Just a friendly survey



I bought a one and a two bedroom MP ts from the secondary market.  But, I have to say, that Grupo Mayan resorts are my favorites, offering different locations and no mandatory all inclusive vacations.  If I bought from a resort that had mandatory all inclusive, then that would make me unhappy.  The cost over time would be prohibitive.  Grupo Mayan resorts are beautiful and well kept with all the amenities.  I have been to the presentations, and they are brutal, but the product is the thing, not the sales dept.!!


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## mikenk (Oct 1, 2010)

DeniseM said:


> Absolutely, but by design, 99% of the people who go to these presentations are lured in by the gifts, and are not prepared at all, and then they are blatantly and intentionally lied to.  If they weren't lied to - then it would be a fair trade - you listen to an honest presentation in return for the gifts.
> 
> I don't know how anyone can possibly defend this practice, in any company.



Denise, I absolutely agree with you. I believe the timeshare industry, including  certainly Grupo Vidanta (Mayan), should clean up its act, as should the used car industry, and others I am sure, so that unsuspecting people can't be taken advantage of. Realistically, it is really never going to completely go away. I have been in the world of business negotiations for a lot more years than I like to admit; the reality is the unprepared get taken advantage of and it will probably always be so. I think education is partly the answer; TUG does a good job but can only do so much. 

On my last trip to one of the GM resorts, I made a point of talking to a number of people that I knew had taken the bait. Most had bought; most were happy; all seemed intelligent; none really knew what they bought and were a little defensive at my questions. One couple, at my urging, did actually read the contract that night and got things fixed; others didn't really seem to care.

I dunno, sometimes i feel the world is full of people who are OK being taken advantage of. On that same trip, I asked the contracts lady that I was working with whether it bothered her that people were being lied to by the sales people. She asked me what did I think she was supposed to do; she asks whether they understood the contract; they say yes; she signs them up. To be honest, i didn't tell any of those folks to rescind - maybe should have, but did I really have the right to burst their bubble or assume my value structure was the same as theirs.  This is a funny business.

Mike


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## Tropical lady (Oct 1, 2010)

*Can't get any warmer or fuzzier!!!*

Sooooooo warm and fuzzy!!!     Ahhhhhh, yeh!!
For many years went to t/s presentations with friends and walked away from them all as we did not see anything worth spending our money on.  Each one was a t/s 101.  Then, we had no knowledge of resales. We set up a list of criteria that IF we would ever buy it would have..........so much for planning.
Mexico was it, hands down.  No coaxing here.  Luxury....yes!!  RTU.....yes. No all inclusive.....yes.  No property taxes......yes!!  Not in the US and can't drive to it.......oh well, criteria scrapped.
We lucked out with a good presentation/sales experience.  We have done the upgrades (Mayan Palace to Grand Luxxe) with the developer each time, negotiated what we wanted.  Fine tuned issues with member services with no problem.  Would I have preferred to turn in 9 resales for a developer upgrade, sure.  But the overall investment is still excellent when benchmarked with other buyers.  Mikenk, Rpennisi, and Drguy have made good points, so I won't repeat.
Oh, by the way......did I say luxury?


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## pittle (Oct 2, 2010)

*Another Happy Grupo Mayan owner*

The first time we ever heard of Mayan Palace was when we took a tour in Acapulco in Febrauary 1999.    We had exchanged into a dump in Acapulco and the MP tour was something to do.  We were blown away with how nice it was and that they would let us pay pro-rated m/f and move there to make the last 4 days of our vacation awesome. So, we bought a 2-bedroom Sea Garden Mazatlan unit from the developer because we could not afford the MP unit right then.

Then in November 1999, we went on a tour of the new NV resort while staying at Paradise Village and upgraded to a full 2-bedroom MP unit, so we could take our family on vacation with us.

We wanted more units so that we could take family vacations at Thanksgiving so we started checking out eBay and bought several other MP weeks and used 3 of those to upgrade to a great GM contract for two 2-bedroom units with the Profile A features and the no payment of m/f unless you go, plus we can roll a week over to the next year if the m/f were paid.  They even will refund m/f payments if we have to cancel within 30 days of a reservation and do not want to roll the week over!  How good is that???

We love the reosrts enough that we now own three 2-bedroom MP units, one 1-bedroom MP unit and two, 2-bedroom GM units.  All have the VF weeks where we can book an extra week by paying m/f.  We also have the Senior Certificate on all but our last eBay purchase and for some reason, we received letters on all but that contract that we do not have to pay m/f unless we go!  We do have to pay the 5 year renovation fees. 

So.....we are some of the Grupo Mayan owners who still have the warm fuzzy feeling of ownership. :whoopie:    Sure, I wish we had bought all resale, but if you had been in the dump we had exchanged our Hawaii timeshare for, you would have paid just about anything to get out of there too!!!  Since then we have had wonderful luxurious vacations!!!


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## california-bighorn (Oct 2, 2010)

Phyllis
Sounds like you have done very well with your timeshares.  With all the doom and gloom out there, it is refreshing to read success stories.  We too have been extremely happy with our ebay purchases and we use them all.  I looked at your photo albums and was glad to see the La Jolla in Mazatlan is progressing. When we toured there in February 2009 I didn't think the La Jolla was going to make it.  The tower bldg looks like it will be very nice.  
Continued good luck!!!


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## DeniseM (Oct 2, 2010)

I have deleted a post from this thread.

A gentle reminder - everyone has a right to post their opinion, as long as they follow the posting rules.  Please attack the issues, and not other posters.


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## Pizza67 (Oct 4, 2010)

I'll admit it, we bought from the developer.  Kicked myself quite a bit afterward, but what was done was done.  Completely love the resorts and the trading aspect which has allowed us additional great vacations.


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## mikenk (Oct 4, 2010)

Pizza67 said:


> I'll admit it, we bought from the developer.  Kicked myself quite a bit afterward, but what was done was done.  Completely love the resorts and the trading aspect which has allowed us additional great vacations.



Interestingly, your attitude was the prevailing one the last time we were at one of the resorts. A bunch of us old folks starting talking at one of the swim up bars at happy hour. All were owners, none knew about TUG, most knew they had overpaid by a lot, none really cared. They loved the resorts and it forced them to take regular vacations. They had long sense forgotten the sales aggravation - in fact, none seemed to remember much of it - I guess it could have been the booze or maybe age. 

I know this thread was a silly attempt to embarrass the GM system, but a real survey of timeshare retail buyers and their attitudes would be interesting; my guess the results would mostly reflect the quality of the resorts and not so much the sales process and price paid. 

Mike


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## Pizza67 (Oct 4, 2010)

mikenk said:


> Interestingly, your attitude was the prevailing one the last time we were at one of the resorts. A bunch of us old folks starting talking at one of the swim up bars at happy hour. All were owners, none knew about TUG, most knew they had overpaid by a lot, none really cared. They loved the resorts and it forced them to take regular vacations. They had long sense forgotten the sales aggravation - in fact, none seemed to remember much of it - I guess it could have been the booze or maybe age.
> 
> I know this thread was a silly attempt to embarrass the GM system, but a real survey of timeshare retail buyers and their attitudes would be interesting; my guess the results would mostly reflect the quality of the resorts and not so much the sales process and price paid.
> 
> Mike



Since then, I've been doing the same thing as you.  We'll be at the swim up bar and I'll tell everyone (exchangers or owners looking for additional weeks) to go to "TUG", read up and then buy resale.  I could continue to berate myself for buying retail, but what good would that do?  Just pay it off and make sure you FULLY use what you purchased.  And we have!


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## Pat H (Oct 4, 2010)

Bought MP Mazatlan in 1995 and in 1996 upgraded to MP PV 2 bdr. At the time I thought they were good purchases compared to the Fairfield now Wyndham Patriots Place white week we bought in 1988. I have never gone back to PP and never will. It was a decent trader for awhile but no longer is and the m/f is ridiculous. Almost $800 for a white week. 

I have been to MP/GM many times and will return. The m/f is $550 and I get a lot more for my money. I didn't know any better when I bought developer but I now do. I'm happy with my purchase.


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## Jwerking (Oct 4, 2010)

mikenk said:


> As I suspected, you designed your silly little survey in a totally biased way - just to measure the sales force, not the quality of the resort. I assume you will start a similar thread on all timeshares to get a similar comparative response. Right? i assume you want to be fair.
> 
> i originally bought resale so i don't qualify, but i upgraded through Grupo Mayan and am very satisfied:
> - I will pay back my upgrade costs within 5 years
> ...



can you please provide more details about the upgrade process.  Isn't the maint fees for the newer resorts like Bliss really high vs  $500+ for the older MP weeks?  Are the maint fees negotiable? How much was it to convert and how will you recoup this costs in 5 yrs?  I just purchased a MP 2 BR week about a year ago and will be going to PVR in mid Jan - with an additional week in GM in Nuevo.  Guess I want to be prepared to negotiate properly - but only have 1 wk -so probably not much leverage. 

Thanks  Joyce


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## rpennisi (Oct 4, 2010)

Pat H said:


> Bought MP Mazatlan in 1995 and in 1996 upgraded to MP PV 2 bdr. At the time I thought they were good purchases compared to the Fairfield now Wyndham Patriots Place white week we bought in 1988. I have never gone back to PP and never will. It was a decent trader for awhile but no longer is and the m/f is ridiculous. Almost $800 for a white week.
> 
> I have been to MP/GM many times and will return. The m/f is $550 and I get a lot more for my money. I didn't know any better when I bought developer but I now do. I'm happy with my purchase.



Hi Pat,
Just a point of information.  When you bought the unit in Mazatlan in 95 was it a Sea Garden or a Mayan Palace?  I want to go to Mazatlan, and the Regency, I think, is relatively new and a MP.
We also have a Fairfield that became a Wyndham, Shawnee in the Poconos, that we don't go to any more as well.  Our kids go for February Presidents' week skiing, but the place is nasty compared to any level of Grupo Mayan.  Give me Mexico any day in February instead!


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## mikenk (Oct 5, 2010)

Jwerking said:


> can you please provide more details about the upgrade process.  Isn't the maint fees for the newer resorts like Bliss really high vs  $500+ for the older MP weeks?  Are the maint fees negotiable? How much was it to convert and how will you recoup this costs in 5 yrs?  I just purchased a MP 2 BR week about a year ago and will be going to PVR in mid Jan - with an additional week in GM in Nuevo.  Guess I want to be prepared to negotiate properly - but only have 1 wk -so probably not much leverage.
> 
> Thanks  Joyce



Hello Joyce,

I am out of the country on business, but will PM you with more info. This forum is not the best for discussing details.

Mike


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## Jwerking (Oct 5, 2010)

mikenk said:


> Hello Joyce,
> 
> I am out of the country on business, but will PM you with more info. This forum is not the best for discussing details.
> 
> Mike



Thanks, Mike, that would be great.

Joyce


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## Tropical lady (Dec 14, 2010)

*survey??*

Just returned from 2 weeks in Nuevo and I am even warmer and fuzzier than my post in October!!  Luv, luv, luv it!!
Say, how is this survey going?  Looks positive to me...eh?


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## ps1 (Dec 30, 2010)

aliikai2 said:


> And you will get the same basic results. The bitterness of finding out you overpaid by thousands can sour almost any deal
> 
> We bought our first MP of Ebay, and a Sea Garden from a Tugger for almost nothing, which we then traded in to Grupo Mayan for a 2 annual 2 bedrooms plus 2 VF weeks , no annual fees unless we use, Profile A rights, and a SEa pac and Maz pac  :whoopie:
> 
> ...


I am curious about the price people have paid for a 2 Bedroom suite, 2 weeks/year deal  at Grand Mayan. 

I had a Master Room, 1 Regular and 1 Vacation Fair week deal at Mayan Palace. I have upgraded to 2 BR "Master Suite" at Grand Mayan where I get 1 "residence week" and 1 "registered week". The cost is approx. $25K. No maintenance fee unless I use the week. 

I was told that if I don't want to use it, I can give it back to Grand Mayan and get $2,500 for either residence week or registered week each year by calling their toll free number. 

They keep assuring me that the deal is legit. Is it?


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## mikenk (Dec 30, 2010)

ps1 said:


> I am curious about the price people have paid for a 2 Bedroom suite, 2 weeks/year deal  at Grand Mayan.
> 
> I had a Master Room, 1 Regular and 1 Vacation Fair week deal at Mayan Palace. I have upgraded to 2 BR "Master Suite" at Grand Mayan where I get 1 "residence week" and 1 "registered week". The cost is approx. $25K. No maintenance fee unless I use the week.
> 
> ...



I originally bought resale but have upgraded through Grupo Mayan a couple of times to get things I want. The difficulty with giving you specific advice is that the Mayan contract is for the lodging and other amenities unique to your new contract - such as no MF unless you use. You have to decide how much the extra things are worth.

With that said, here are some observations:

- IMHO, 25K is way too much for an upgrade from a 1 bedroom GM unit to a two bedroom GM. You can buy a 2 bedroom on the open market for roughly the cost of the transfer fee, but probably not with the no MF unless you use. if you are still in the 5 day rescind period, I would recommend rescind. 

- Unless the rent back clause is specifically written in your contract and I will bet it is not, then it was just a sales ploy - not worth anything. the good news is that you will not be stuck with the mandatory MF.

- If you are still at the property and within 5 days, then I would rescind with the reason that it is too much cost  and that buy back thing is not in the contract. This usually opens the door for more negotiation as to price and amenities. If your old contract also had the no MF unless you use, I would not pay much more than the transfer fee and a few thousand to keep the no MF unless you use. If the no MF unless you use was not in your old contract, then you need to decide how much that is worth to you.

Sorry for the long response, but the Mayan contracts are too individualized for just a one answer for all.

Good Luck,
Mike


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## MuranoJo (Dec 30, 2010)

I believe ps1 was saying they paid that for upgrading from a Mayan Palace to a Grand Mayan.  Regardless, it is way too much in either case, and I agree with Mike and also suggest rescission.

You can watch eBay for Grand Mayans at a good price (although the 'no m/f unless you use' may not be transferable--just not sure about that).  I have found that Grupo honors what is written in the contract, even if it is a resale--just make sure you review a copy of the contract from the previous owner before buying.


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## pittle (Dec 31, 2010)

muranojo said:


> I believe ps1 was saying they paid that for upgrading from a Mayan Palace to a Grand Mayan.  Regardless, it is way too much in either case, and I agree with Mike and also suggest rescission.
> 
> You can watch eBay for Grand Mayans at a good price (although the 'no m/f unless you use' may not be transferable--just not sure about that).  I have found that Grupo honors what is written in the contract, even if it is a resale--just make sure you review a copy of the contract from the previous owner before buying.



I think he also said he had a Master Room (aka - Hotel unit) at MP.  So if he is upgrading to a 2-bedroom Grand Mayan unit, $25,000 is not a horrible price for buying a 2-bedroom Grand unit from the developer.  Back in 2006, a 2-bedroom GM was about $32,000 when you bought from them. Still, he can get a better deal on eBay, just not the no pay unless you go deal.  If you only have one timeshare week, then the no pay unless you go is not as huge as it is with folks like me that have lots of weeks.  We use our MP/GM units just when we have friends and family going with us that share the cost. (They all say, "why buy? - Phyllis has more than she needs." and it is true.)


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## mikenk (Dec 31, 2010)

An interesting side question is what is the feature of "no MF unless you use" is worth. How much would you pay someone to take away your maintenance fee unless you use, but you keep your current rights to use.?

Reading these forums, people appear to be willing to shell out lots of money just to be rid of their mandatory maintenance fees. Quire amazing really when people are willing to pay money to dump this obligation that often they paid lots to get in the first place. 

When I upgraded from the Grand mayan to the grand bliss. I did it for the free golf and to remove the mandatory MF in my old contract. The golf savings was easy to calculate, the removal of that yearly obligation was huge for me but never tried to put a real value on it.

Mike


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## pittle (Dec 31, 2010)

When we did an "owner's update" at the Buganvilias in November, the sales manager commented on how many timeshare weeks we had. I said that we did not have to pay m/f on the MP/GM ones unless we used them.  He said that folks like us with lots of timeshares loved that, but those with none or one, go every year - at least for the first 4 or 5 before they start dreading the m/f statement.  I had not thought about that, but when we upgraded to the GM, at first it was pay m/f every year for 5 years, and then they were optional.  The next year, we got letters for all of our contracts that we no longer had to pay m/f unless we made a reservation.  This was great because we did not expect this for our MP weeks too!  We did not pay extra for this, but it is one of our favorite features since we bought several other weeks in other places in the past few years.  We have the option of the MP and/or GM when we want to go.  

We are never disappointed with Grupo Mayan Resorts and I am heading to the new MP in Acapulco January 15th for 2 weeks with a friend.  Just us two gals on this trip and we plan to enjoy the newest Mayan Palace Regency.  We were able to use 2 MP weeks for the price of 1 GM week, so chose that route this time.  We can use the extra $ for massages!


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