# Do we now consider RCI a points only system now?



## bengates2860 (Oct 13, 2012)

Now that RCI has there points system and the old weeks system in now basically points(Trading Power Units), isn't RCI a points only system.

I mean, be it points or TPU's its all based on numbers of points or TPU's as to what it takes to exchange.

Does this make it more important to join II or another exchange company for straight week trades (week for a week).

I have a very high studio that gets between 40 to 50 plus TPU's, and has dual affiliation.  So, that is a no brainer, I deposit with RCI.  But, it would seem other low TPU weeks that have dual affiliation my do better with II. Any opinions on this


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## DeniseM (Oct 13, 2012)

It really depends on where you want to go.  For Starwood owners, II is a no brainer because of the Starwood to Starwood priority in II, but if you want to trade into some RCI only resorts like DVC and Wyndham, you need an RCI Acct. too.


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## Passepartout (Oct 13, 2012)

Sort of, but if you want straight a week-for-a week, nothing beats the cost of a fixed week deeded unit. Just MF. Nothing else. No need to pay for exchanges or membership in an exchange co at all. In close second place would be owning that fixed, deeded week in a mini system.


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## Carolinian (Oct 14, 2012)

You are quite right that RCI is now points only, with two different points systems, Points and Points Lite (''Weeks'').  Due to the resistance of many weeks owners and resorts to switching to RCI Points, they essentially imposed a points system on weeks owners and resorts.

It is inefficient to run two different points systems, so I expect the next big shakeup with the RCI system will be when they merge Points and Points Lite. As with any big RCI change, when that happens, there will be winners, losers, and those who end up even.

Comparing Points and Points Lite, there are some massive differences in valuations, the UK being a good example, and there it is the Points valuations, not the Points Lite valuations, that make sense from the observable supply / demand situation, which can be seen from online availibility.  Quite frankly, UK owners are being royally cheated by RCI in Points Lite.  At the same time, there are grossly overpointed weeks in Points Lite, especially in the overbuilt areas.




bengates2860 said:


> Now that RCI has there points system and the old weeks system in now basically points(Trading Power Units), isn't RCI a points only system.
> 
> I mean, be it points or TPU's its all based on numbers of points or TPU's as to what it takes to exchange.
> 
> ...


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## KristiYaYa (Oct 26, 2012)

*YES RCI is points and I'm VERY UNHAPPY!!!!*

We own a 2 unit (2bdrm) lockout in Ft Lauderdale with Vacation Village.  When we bought it we got 2 weeks per year (for depositing them separately) AND 2 bonus weeks.... so 4 weeks per year.  PERIOD.  EVEN TRADES...!!!

We're going to Orlando next month as we do every year and this time my exchange was charged points.  They have pitched this points thing for better than 10 years and we never bought into it.  (They were selling it at major cost in the beginning!)  This change is not something we signed up for ... it was done without our consent.

All I know is that we were able to stay in any unit/anywhere before for any of our 4 weeks... now that is not possible!!!! And, incase you hadn't noticed, I am breathing FIRE!   

Is anybody else feeling this way?  Has anyone done a fully analysis of this change?   I'd really like to hear if a there is any legal action going on over this, I'm ready to write to the Florida Attorney General, and perhaps my own state as well.   

Thanks for keeping with me through this rant.


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## KristiYaYa (Oct 26, 2012)

*YES RCI is points and I'm VERY UNHAPPY!!!!*

We own a 2 unit (2bdrm) lockout in Ft Lauderdale with Vacation Village.  When we bought it we got 2 weeks per year (for depositing them separately) AND 2 bonus weeks.... so 4 weeks per year.  PERIOD.  EVEN TRADES...!!!

We're going to Orlando next month as we do every year and this time my exchange was charged points.  They have pitched this points thing for better than 10 years and we never bought into it.  (They were selling it at major cost in the beginning!)  This change is not something we signed up for ... it was done without our consent.

All I know is that we were able to stay in any unit/anywhere before for any of our 4 weeks... now that is not possible!!!! And, incase you hadn't noticed, I am breathing FIRE!   

Is anybody else feeling this way?  Has anyone done a fully analysis of this change?   I'd really like to hear if a there is any legal action going on over this, I'm ready to write to the Florida Attorney General, and perhaps my own state as well.   

Thanks for keeping with me through this rant.


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## Carolinian (Oct 26, 2012)

Points Lite (the new ''Weeks'') made many negative changes for existing members.  For those who did internal exchanges, they found that the longstanding preferences that had been part of the system were gone.  This had long been a selling point by developers and part of the RCI supplied literature, so they got screwed in this change.  I never did an internal exchange myself, but I fully understand their feelings.  After RCI claimed they were not going to change value relationships, only make them public, they clearly lied on that as MANY value relationships were indeed changed.  According to a poll on another site about half of RCI members lost out in that change and about half remained the same or gained.

I think RCI beleived that members would eventually pay to switch to Points, but when in fact a very solid majority of Weeks based members proved resistant to the points concept, they decided to ram it down our throats whether we wanted it or not.

Of course, the next big set of changes likely will come when RCI merges their two points systems.  There will be winners and losers there, too.

Given the instability of the RCI exchange system, I am now using just the independent exchange companies.


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## WinniWoman (Oct 26, 2012)

[Political comment deleted.]


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## gnorth16 (Oct 26, 2012)

Carolinian said:


> Of course, the next big set of changes likely will come when RCI merges their two points systems.  There will be winners and losers there, too.



That is a bold statement and not the first time you have mentioned this.  RCI and the resorts have convinced people to pay more for a points membership and now you think they are going back to a single system??

What advantage does RCI have to go back to a single system?   Remember, to do a huge change like this, it has to be beneficial to RCI, not the members.


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## geekette (Oct 26, 2012)

the advantage to RCI is managing only one program.  Like they used to only  have weeks.  Less costly to run one program.


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## Carolinian (Oct 26, 2012)

RCI tends to look at things these days based on what is going to most benefit its rental program, rather than its exchange program, and Points Lite is more fitted to skimming weeks for rentals and trying to claim it is a fair swap with replacement weeks.  The rigid points numbers in Points make that a more difficult proposition there.  I would expect the merged program to look more like Points Lite.  To add a bit of confusion for members, I would expect points values in three digit numbers rather than the two digits of Points Lite or the five digits (sometimes four or six) of Points.




gnorth16 said:


> That is a bold statement and not the first time you have mentioned this.  RCI and the resorts have convinced people to pay more for a points membership and now you think they are going back to a single system??
> 
> What advantage does RCI have to go back to a single system?   Remember, to do a huge change like this, it has to be beneficial to RCI, not the members.


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## timeos2 (Oct 26, 2012)

While I'm disgusted that RCI has basically abandoned its trade roots in favor of renting as much of the (free!) inventory it gets I will say that the complaints we tend to hear about RCI other than the rentals are usually moaning from those that had been able to trade up regularly to better than they owned and are now disappointed that they tend at best to see like for like. I have no problem with that - it always should have been that way. If you buy a small unit or shoulder season or less that is what you can at best expect to trade for.  Of course RCI didn't just start better enforcing like for like but also dove headlong into rentals so the total picture becomes muddied.  

We haven't done a trade with RCI in over 5 years and doubt I ever will again. We do use it for the rentals as that alone is the only value to us now.  I hate that it came to that but I will take advantage while it exists. We always bought our units to USE - never to primarily trade. Buying to trade was never a good plan although for awhile it was a great value - now that value has moved to renting rather than owning any place you don't wish to return to time & time again.  

RCI is killing trading in favor of the far more profitable rentals. Take advantage of that and forget trying to use the function they no longer seem to have any interest in whatsoever.  You'll save money & get far more places you want that way. But don't blame points or points lite - those are not the underlying cause of the trades you used to get but no longer can.


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## Carolinian (Oct 28, 2012)

You are quite right about RCI and rentals.  I still get some good deals there on rentals, but why feed them good exchange deposits when they will likely just put them into their rental pool anyway?

As to like for like, this is based on the totality of factors in supply and demand, and a small unit in New York, London, Venice, Bermuda, St. Johns, or San Francisco is always going to be worth much more than the largest unit in an overbuilt area like the Canary Islands, Branson, Orlando, Williamsburg, or the Costa del Sol.




timeos2 said:


> While I'm disgusted that RCI has basically abandoned its trade roots in favor of renting as much of the (free!) inventory it gets I will say that the complaints we tend to hear about RCI other than the rentals are usually moaning from those that had been able to trade up regularly to better than they owned and are now disappointed that they tend at best to see like for like. I have no problem with that - it always should have been that way. If you buy a small unit or shoulder season or less that is what you can at best expect to trade for.  Of course RCI didn't just start better enforcing like for like but also dove headlong into rentals so the total picture becomes muddied.
> 
> We haven't done a trade with RCI in over 5 years and doubt I ever will again. We do use it for the rentals as that alone is the only value to us now.  I hate that it came to that but I will take advantage while it exists. We always bought our units to USE - never to primarily trade. Buying to trade was never a good plan although for awhile it was a great value - now that value has moved to renting rather than owning any place you don't wish to return to time & time again.
> 
> RCI is killing trading in favor of the far more profitable rentals. Take advantage of that and forget trying to use the function they no longer seem to have any interest in whatsoever.  You'll save money & get far more places you want that way. But don't blame points or points lite - those are not the underlying cause of the trades you used to get but no longer can.


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## Larry M (Oct 30, 2012)

KristiYaYa said:


> We're going to Orlando next month as we do every year and this time my exchange was charged points.  They have pitched this points thing for better than 10 years and we never bought into it.  (They were selling it at major cost in the beginning!)  This change is not something we signed up for ... it was done without our consent.
> 
> All I know is that we were able to stay in any unit/anywhere before for any of our 4 weeks... now that is not possible!!!! And, incase you hadn't noticed, I am breathing FIRE!
> 
> Is anybody else feeling this way?  Has anyone done a fully analysis of this change?   I'd really like to hear if a there is any legal action going on over this, I'm ready to write to the Florida Attorney General, and perhaps my own state as well.



Well, they are not the first unethical company. My mother-in-law bought a fixed week from Fairfield (now Wyndham) with the promise of exchanges anywhere in the system. Fairfield and then Wyndham tried to bully the owners (like me) by:

Gradually decreasing the number of properties available for exchange.
Gradually increasing the "service fee" for exchanges to a substantial fraction of the annual maintenance fee.
Ultimately disallowing exchanges at all.

Just another example of the sleazy practices so common in this business.

By the way, you can have my annual fixed week 12 in a two bedroom at Mountain Ridge, Fairfield Bay, Arkansas for $1.00 if you want it. Really.


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## Texas Dreamer (Oct 30, 2012)

*Why RCI is so interested in points systems*

In the thread the question was asked as to why RCI forced a points system on week owners. 

I think it was done to increase their inventory for both trades and rentals. RCI has always tried to get owners to deposit their weeks up to two years in advance. I never did it because that also means I have to pay my maintenance fee in advance as well. Under the weeks trading power system owners are forced to deposit 9 to 12 months in advance or lose trading power. This gives RCI more control of their inventory, but at the expense of the owners.


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## Carolinian (Oct 31, 2012)

Sunterra was another big developer which tried to strongarm those who bought weeks into their points system.

In Europe they got some active pushback.  One disgruntled Sunterra pointer set up a website that was either sunterror.com or sunterror.co.uk and got a lot of attention.  Sunterra settled with him as long as he took down the website.  Then a group of Scottish Sunterra points members got together and organized the Scottish Action Group Against Sunterra, and put up a website that was either sunterrafied.com or sunterrafied.co.uk.  They then bought a used ambulance and had it repainted with anti-Sunterra slogans as the ''Scambulance'' and used it as a centerpiece to picket Sunterra sales sites.  When DRI bought out Sunterra, they settled with the Scots and they took down their website and parked the Scambulance.




Larry M said:


> Well, they are not the first unethical company. My mother-in-law bought a fixed week from Fairfield (now Wyndham) with the promise of exchanges anywhere in the system. Fairfield and then Wyndham tried to bully the owners (like me) by:
> 
> Gradually decreasing the number of properties available for exchange.
> Gradually increasing the "service fee" for exchanges to a substantial fraction of the annual maintenance fee.
> ...


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## windyriver (Oct 31, 2012)

*RCI Lawsuit settlement*

I've never been a member of RCI and I dropped our II membership after the first four years, have only used the smaller, independent exchange companies like SFX, Trading Places, DAE and GPX since then with much happier results.

I thought folks on this thread would be interested in knowing that there was a lawsuit against RCI over this issue of weeks, points and rentals, that was settled a few years ago.  RCI won, essentially, as the settlement was extremely weak. Here's a link to an article about it that was in Timeshare Today magazine, an excellent publication for anyone interested in being an informed consumer of timeshares, and protecting your rights. The editor of TS Today was involved in the lawsuit, besides covering it in the magazine, and fought bravely for a better deal.
I learned about TS Today years ago thanks to reading about it on TUG!

http://tstoday.com/members/magazine/issue104/front.pdf


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## BobDE (Oct 31, 2012)

It does make trading more fair and I get that. The problem is that for me it is an extra fee each time I trade to balance out the points. Seems like the points owned and needed will never be exact so you are faced with the extra fee to combine or retain the points. If everyone is doing this RCI is making a huge profit from this small task.


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## Carolinian (Oct 31, 2012)

Actually what happened was that the class action lawyers sold our thier clients for a huge payout in legal fees, over a million dollars to the lawyers, with a fig leaf of trinkets and no meaningful injunctive relief for the clients.  As is common with class action lawyers, the ethics of these class action lawyers was in the gutter.



windyriver said:


> I've never been a member of RCI and I dropped our II membership after the first four years, have only used the smaller, independent exchange companies like SFX, Trading Places, DAE and GPX since then with much happier results.
> 
> I thought folks on this thread would be interested in knowing that there was a lawsuit against RCI over this issue of weeks, points and rentals, that was settled a few years ago.  RCI won, essentially, as the settlement was extremely weak. Here's a link to an article about it that was in Timeshare Today magazine, an excellent publication for anyone interested in being an informed consumer of timeshares, and protecting your rights. The editor of TS Today was involved in the lawsuit, besides covering it in the magazine, and fought bravely for a better deal.
> I learned about TS Today years ago thanks to reading about it on TUG!
> ...


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## Carolinian (Oct 31, 2012)

Well actually, it does NOT make trading more fair.  There are lots of examples of skewed numbers both ways, much worse than in regular RCI Points, but the kicker is that they may give different, sometimes widely different, numbers for the very same week at the very same point in time depending on whether it is a deposit or taken as an exchange.  Not too long after the new system was imposed, one Tugger posted about how RCI was giving 50 points lite / TPU's to deposit a particular Orlando week, but had availibility of the very same week at the very same resort availible to trade into at the very same time for 10 points lite.  To me that spells C-O-R-R-U-P-T-I-O-N.  And that is hardly the only example of this that has been found, just the most extreme I have seen posted.



BobDE said:


> It does make trading more fair and I get that. The problem is that for me it is an extra fee each time I trade to balance out the points. Seems like the points owned and needed will never be exact so you are faced with the extra fee to combine or retain the points. If everyone is doing this RCI is making a huge profit from this small task.


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