# California COVID-19 guidelines / Dec 2020 Cancellations by Marriott/II [MERGED]



## spookykennedy (Nov 14, 2020)

We have a check in on Friday at NCV and with the Governor's announcement now we are torn. We mostly hang around the resort and do some sightseeing by car. Is anyone there now? If it's going to be an extra weird vibe I think we will pass but are very sad about it.


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## davidvel (Nov 14, 2020)

spookykennedy said:


> We have a check in on Friday at NCV and with the Governor's announcement now we are torn. We mostly hang around the resort and do some sightseeing by car. Is anyone there now? If it's going to be an extra weird vibe I think we will pass but are very sad about it.


What do you mean? Everything in So Cal and especially Orange County is basically the same other than indoor restaurants (in San Diego). OC may get these restrictions Tuesday.

If you are talking about the pronouncements by CA, OR and WA governors, they are merely advisory.


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## rhonda (Nov 14, 2020)

Ugh.  Thanks, @spookykennedy, for your post.  I just checked ... and, yep, Newsom's recent update will kill our New Year's plans to visit Scottsdale, AZ!

Link:  https://www.cdph.ca.gov/Programs/CID/DCDC/Pages/COVID-19/Travel-Advisory.aspx
Snippet:
1. Persons arriving in California from other states or countries, including returning California residents, *should practice self-quarantine for 14 days after arriva*l. These persons should limit their interactions to their immediate household. This recommendation does not apply to individuals who cross state or country borders for essential travel. [2]


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## BJRSanDiego (Nov 14, 2020)

spookykennedy said:


> We have a check in on Friday at NCV and with the Governor's announcement now we are torn. We mostly hang around the resort and do some sightseeing by car. Is anyone there now? If it's going to be an extra weird vibe I think we will pass but are very sad about it.


We were there in late Sept. and they were in the same (purple) category.  We wore a mask, did social distancing, hand washing, etc.

We took the Marriott shuttle down to Crystal Cove and ate at the Beachcomber (outdoors).  We also ate outdoors at the Cliffs (Laguna Beach), and the Landing (Balboa Island).  I skipped the pools on the weekend.  

Most people properly wore masks but there were a few idiots who didn't or who weren't wearing them properly.


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## BJRSanDiego (Nov 14, 2020)

rhonda said:


> Ugh.  Thanks, @spookykennedy, for your post.  I just checked ... and, yep, Newsom's recent update will kill our New Year's plans to visit Scottsdale, AZ!
> 
> Link:  https://www.cdph.ca.gov/Programs/CID/DCDC/Pages/COVID-19/Travel-Advisory.aspx
> Snippet:
> 1. Persons arriving in California from other states or countries, including returning California residents, *should practice self-quarantine for 14 days after arriva*l. These persons should limit their interactions to their immediate household. This recommendation does not apply to individuals who cross state or country borders for essential travel. [2]



This is only an advisory.  

We are going to Az. in a couple of months.  Because of our age (retired) and health issues, we pretty much self quarantine anyway (when we are home).  I always were PPE and use safe practices.  So, we'll self quarantine if we need to when we return.  If Az puts in a similar actual REQUIREMENT, then we may have to cancel, unless they allow the use of a Covid test, like Hawaii does.   

@rhonda , if your New Year's plans included a bunch of close contact and partying with others, then you are exposing yourselves to a risk and could also bring back the virus to San Diego.  If you are under 50 and in very good health, then YOUR OWN risk of death is very low.   Especially if you use PPE and safe practices.


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## SmithOp (Nov 14, 2020)

rhonda said:


> Ugh. Thanks, @spookykennedy, for your post. I just checked ... and, yep, Newsom's recent update will kill our New Year's plans to visit Scottsdale, AZ!
> 
> Link: https://www.cdph.ca.gov/Programs/CID/DCDC/Pages/COVID-19/Travel-Advisory.aspx
> Snippet:
> 1. Persons arriving in California from other states or countries, including returning California residents, *should practice self-quarantine for 14 days after arriva*l. These persons should limit their interactions to their immediate household. This recommendation does not apply to individuals who cross state or country borders for essential travel. [2]



Thats a “should”, no enforcement, or even a way to enforce it.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro


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## spookykennedy (Nov 14, 2020)

Thanks everyone. We want to be respectful but the more we think about it, it won't be much different than activities we do at home under the same restrictions.


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## VacationForever (Nov 14, 2020)

We had planned to go over to Palm Springs area for Thanksgiving for 15 nights and being concerned about how an advisory can turn into a mandate, we are going to forgo our trip.  They are booked using Vistana Staroptions with a Dec 31st 2020 expiration so we won't be able to rebook it.


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## rhonda (Nov 14, 2020)

If it remains in effect for our travel dates ... it will kill our plans.  We won't party or mix with crowds ... our "big" event was to some lonely hiking ... but my DH's current project would enforce the 14-day quarantine for its own purposes and, thus, our problem. 

I'm a bit bummed by yesterday's announcement re: interstate travel ... but not surprised.  Yes, I booked the trip on expiring (now expired) WM points knowing that it was an "at risk" reservation.  Oh, well ... how many reservations have (has??) each of us cancelled this year, right?  Just chalking up another one ...



BJRSanDiego said:


> @rhonda , if your New Year's plans included a bunch of close contact and partying with others, then you are exposing yourselves to a risk and could also bring back the virus to San Diego.  If you are under 50 and in very good health, then YOUR OWN risk of death is very low.   Especially if you use PPE and safe practices.





SmithOp said:


> Thats a “should”, no enforcement, or even a way to enforce it.


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## Steve A (Nov 14, 2020)

We cancelled our two week trip to DSV 1 and Shadow Ridge earlier this week at the urging/begging of our LA based son. We’re in our 70s. We were scheduled for 11.27-12.10. We’re rebooked for the middle of April 2021. I may put it off until later if I can through II.


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## VacationForever (Nov 14, 2020)

Steve A said:


> We cancelled our two week trip to DSV 1 and Shadow Ridge earlier this week at the urging/begging of our LA based son. We’re in our 70s. We were scheduled for 11.27-12.10. We’re rebooked for the middle of April 2021. I may put it off until later if I can through II.


We also have 2 more weeks at DSV I coming up at the end of January and we really hope not to cancel these.


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## Foggy1 (Nov 14, 2020)

VacationForever said:


> We also have 2 more weeks at DSV I coming up at the end of January and we really hope not to cancel these.


We are into our 3rd week at DSV1 and actually feel safer here than at home in WA.  Mask compliance and distancing is very good.  

We debated earlier in the Fall as to whether or come or not as we are 75 and 85 but decided "what the hell." and are very glad we came......assuming we don't contact something on the plane home.

Next worry is Maui in Feb/Mar for 5 weeks.


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## BJRSanDiego (Nov 14, 2020)

rhonda said:


> If it remains in effect for our travel dates ... it will kill our plans.  We won't party or mix with crowds ... our "big" event was to some lonely hiking ... but my DH's current project would enforce the 14-day quarantine for its own purposes and, thus, our problem.
> 
> I'm a bit bummed by yesterday's announcement re: interstate travel ... but not surprised.  Yes, I booked the trip on expiring (now expired) WM points knowing that it was an "at risk" reservation.  Oh, well ... how many reservations have (has??) each of us cancelled this year, right?  Just chalking up another one ...


I know that I'm not going to talk you out of anything.  So, I'm just going to offer some of my opinions and thoughts.

So, I'm curious why, if you live in San Diego and drive up to Orange county why your DH would be required to quarantine.  As best I know, both counties are in the purple zone.  I don't think that Newsance's advisory applies to intra-state (within the state) travel.  I'm pretty sure that it only applies to people entering or returning from out-of-state.  

Newport coast isn't terrific for hiking.  It is pretty much an urban area.   But I like walking along the Crystal Cove beach as far north and south as I can.  And there are a few other hikes in the area.  

Best of luck with your decision.


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## davidvel (Nov 14, 2020)

rhonda said:


> If it remains in effect for our travel dates ... it will kill our plans.  We won't party or mix with crowds ... our "big" event was to some lonely hiking ... but my DH's current project would enforce the 14-day quarantine for its own purposes and, thus, our problem.
> 
> I'm a bit bummed by yesterday's announcement re: interstate travel ... but not surprised.  Yes, I booked the trip on expiring (now expired) WM points knowing that it was an "at risk" reservation.  Oh, well ... how many reservations have (has??) each of us cancelled this year, right?  Just chalking up another one ...


Do what you want and think is best. [Deleted] The state has not imposed any rules, orders or any restrictions on travel, and no travel quarantine is in place.

The headlines claiming that there  has been some new "spike" relates only to positive tests, based upon more tests. The positive rate has not significantly increased yet.

California has had a spike in positive tests, due almost exclusively to an incredible increase in testing.  The positivity rate remains well under the WHO's 5% threshold for lockdowns. [deleted]  CA's positive test rate has hovered around 4% or so throughout the pandemic. This is due (I'll give him credit here), to the strong early mask mandate where people interact. Masks are helping here, but there is no spike as you will read in the media, in anything other than tests. 

The state standards require counties to close things down when the number (not percentage) of positive tests increase, regardless of the fact that we are now testing at 5x levels from before.  So 5x more tests equals about 5x more positive tests. 3rd grade math. This is why San Diego went to purple stage today, and Orange County will next week. But nothing has really changed.  Hospital and ICU (including COVID care) availability is extremely high. But we are shut down to the purple tier.  Sadly this [deleted] causes dingbats to then ignore smart controls like masks and social distancing...


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## VacationForever (Nov 15, 2020)

Foggy1 said:


> We are into our 3rd week at DSV1 and actually feel safer here than at home in WA.  Mask compliance and distancing is very good.
> 
> We debated earlier in the Fall as to whether or come or not as we are 75 and 85 but decided "what the hell." and are very glad we came......assuming we don't contact something on the plane home.
> 
> Next worry is Maui in Feb/Mar for 5 weeks.


I would have gone on the Thanksgiving trip as it is a drive-to location for us.  But my husband does not want to go and be stuck being quarantined.  We golf and eat out alot whenever we go to Palm Springs area where it is 10 degrees warmer than where we are.  More importantly for us is the Jan/Feb trip.  We are planning to spend 2+ months living out of timeshare and hotels while we are in between homes.


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## 2boysmom (Nov 15, 2020)

Foggy1 said:


> We are into our 3rd week at DSV1 and actually feel safer here than at home in WA.  Mask compliance and distancing is very good.
> 
> We debated earlier in the Fall as to whether or come or not as we are 75 and 85 but decided "what the hell." and are very glad we came......assuming we don't contact something on the plane home.
> 
> Next worry is Maui in Feb/Mar for 5 weeks.


We too are considering whether to move forward with our week as DSV1 starting December 26th traveling from the east coast.  *Foggy1* could you comment on restaurants availability of outdoor dining?  Do most offer it?  We usually golf a good bit, eat out, hit Temecula wineries, do the tram up the mountain, visit Joshua Tree.  Are most of these still open with the newest 'advisory' albeit with limited capacity and masks of course?  Thanks for any additional information.  We aren't worried about catching or spreading Covid but don't want to travel across country to basically be confined to the timeshare (even though we love DSV1).


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## Bill4728 (Nov 15, 2020)

We have decided to cancel our early December trip to NCV because of Covid.  We vacationed in Hilton Head last month and were comfortable with the way that they handled Covid but just feel that SoCal may be to "closed" for us.  We were able to "E Plus" into the last week of Jan 2021 at NCV and may do it again to early April.


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## Foggy1 (Nov 15, 2020)

2boysmom said:


> We too are considering whether to move forward with our week as DSV1 starting December 26th traveling from the east coast.  *Foggy1* could you comment on restaurants availability of outdoor dining?  Do most offer it?  We usually golf a good bit, eat out, hit Temecula wineries, do the tram up the mountain, visit Joshua Tree.  Are most of these still open with the newest 'advisory' albeit with limited capacity and masks of course?  Thanks for any additional information.  We aren't worried about catching or spreading Covid but don't want to travel across country to basically be confined to the timeshare (even though we love DSV1).


From what I've seen, golf courses limit carts to single riders, unless they arrive in the same car.  For outdoor dining, we've been to Desert Willow, Fisherman's Landing, PF Changs, Babes, Don Diegos and Ernies at PGA West.  Also take out from Ralphs and Bristol Farms.  Haven't been to Shermans or Papa Dans, but see people sitting outside.
The Tram web site says they are open and limit 10? in the cab.  I wouldn't count on the wineries.
This is as of today....what happens tomorrow is ?????


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## 2boysmom (Nov 15, 2020)

Foggy1 said:


> From what I've seen, golf courses limit carts to single riders, unless they arrive in the same car.  For outdoor dining, we've been to Desert Willow, Fisherman's Landing, PF Changs, Babes, Don Diegos and Ernies at PGA West.  Also take out from Ralphs and Bristol Farms.  Haven't been to Shermans or Papa Dans, but see people sitting outside.
> The Tram web site says they are open and limit 10? in the cab.  I wouldn't count on the wineries.
> This is as of today....what happens tomorrow is ?????


thanks much for the additional detail


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## TravelTime (Nov 15, 2020)

I am debating canceling our two week trip to Four Seasons Aviara for the Christmas and New Years holiday. The main reason is because there is not a lot to do down there with so much closed. We might enjoy staying home better than spending 2 weeks in a 1 bedroom unit. I was not able to book 2 BRs for the holidays.


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## klpca (Nov 15, 2020)

TravelTime said:


> I am debating canceling our two week trip to Four Seasons Aviara for the Christmas and New Years holiday. The main reason is because there is not a lot to do down there with so much closed. We might enjoy staying home better than spending 2 weeks in a 1 bedroom unit. I was not able to book 2 BRs for the holidays.


Besides Legoland/Sea World being closed what else are you looking to do? You may be ok.That said I think that spending the holidays at home is a perfect way to spend time together.


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## TravelTime (Nov 15, 2020)

klpca said:


> Besides Legoland/Sea World being closed what else are you looking to do? You may be ok.That said I think that spending the holidays at home is a perfect way to spend time together.



Also, Disney and Universal are closed. The San Diego Safari is very limited in operations. Not sure about the zoo. What kid friendly parks and activities are within driving distance and open?


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## klpca (Nov 15, 2020)

TravelTime said:


> Also, Disney and Universal are closed. The San Diego Safari is very limited in operations. Not sure about the zoo. What kid friendly parks and activities are within driving distance and open?


If you were only planning to do amusement parks, then yes you are right, and they are closed. There are other things to do but if that was the purpose then I agree that there's no reason to make the trip.


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## TravelTime (Nov 15, 2020)

klpca said:


> If you were only planning to do amusement parks, then yes you are right, and they are closed. There are other things to do but if that was the purpose then I agree that there's no reason to make the trip.



I am wondering what other kid friendly activities are in the area. Do you have recommendations? I have never been down there yet.


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## klpca (Nov 15, 2020)

TravelTime said:


> I am wondering what other kid friendly activities are in the area. Do you have recommendations? I have never been down there yet.


It's been a few years - our youngest is almost 30, no idea how that happened! - so maybe others will chime in. We definitely did the zoo, Sea World, movies etc so without those your are left with hiking and watching movies and playing games at home. You can walk on the beach but I know that my kids would not have been impressed by that. There may be other things to do but I am not sure what they are. FYI, I would personally reschedule to a warmer time of year - Sept is my favorite followed by August (except that it is pretty warm for some of the theme parks at that time of year). I love living in San Diego but I think that winter is my least favorite time of year because so much of San Diego is geared to being outside. Even our malls are open air. You will be chilly - it will probably be in the mid 60's (high) if you are lucky - and it is a damp cold. People laugh about us being wimps (and we probably are) but the damp cold is really uncomfortable. It's like having a cold blanket wrapped around you. If you come from a cold climate you will be fine but to me it feels really chilly and uncomfortable.


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## rhonda (Nov 15, 2020)

BJRSanDiego said:


> I know that I'm not going to talk you out of anything.  So, I'm just going to offer some of my opinions and thoughts.
> 
> So, I'm curious why, if you live in San Diego and drive up to Orange county why your DH would be required to quarantine.  As best I know, both counties are in the purple zone.  I don't think that Newsance's advisory applies to intra-state (within the state) travel.  I'm pretty sure that it only applies to people entering or returning from out-of-state.
> 
> ...


Sorry, I jumped into a a thread am not the Original Poster (OP).  The trip I'm likely to cancel is Scottsdale, AZ ... thus interstate not intra.

(Thank you for the hiking suggestion!   )


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## rhonda (Nov 15, 2020)

davidvel said:


> Do what you want and think is best. His highness's pronouncement is just that, an bunch of hot air, based not in science, and only a recommendation.  The state has not imposed any rules, orders or any restrictions on travel, and no travel quarantine is in place.


Thanks.  I enjoyed your description!  Our decision would be based on my DH's work position ... which will take a very hard follow of anything coming from the state level.  If the state suggests a 14-day quarantine, his project will enforce it.


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## BJRSanDiego (Nov 15, 2020)

rhonda said:


> Sorry, I jumped into a a thread am not the Original Poster (OP).  The trip I'm likely to cancel is Scottsdale, AZ ... thus interstate not intra.
> 
> (Thank you for the hiking suggestion!   )


Thanks for the explanation.  Perhaps you could do a retrade of the Scottsdale reservation to something in California.  I've seen some 1 and 2 BR Marriott Palm Desert using an accommodation certificate.  The weather in Palm Desert is usually quite similar to Phoenix.


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## Steve A (Nov 15, 2020)

The positivity testing rate in Riverside County home of PD is 9.1%. So take your chances I’m not.








						Tracking COVID-19 in California
					

County and statewide data to help people understand the spread of COVID-19.




					covid19.ca.gov
				



Enter Riverside in the county option.

As to Dave repeating of the [deleted] arguement that we only have more cases because we are testing more, what nonsense. Of course we are and we’ll find even more with additional testing. So let’s not test and it will all magically go away.








						The Argument That Increased COVID Cases Are ‘Only Due To More Testing’ Is Just Plain Stupid
					

The critical reasons for testing for COVID-19 are to learn the rate of community spread and to identify confirmed cases so we can trace their contacts.




					www.yahoo.com
				












						Fact-check: Would there be fewer coronavirus cases without testing?
					

This piece was originally published on PolitiFact.com on June 17, 2020 President Donald Trump sought to downplay the...



					www.statesman.com


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## davidvel (Nov 15, 2020)

Steve A said:


> The positivity testing rate in Riverside County home of PD is 9.1%. So take your chances I’m not.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


What a silly post. No I was not making that absurd argument that cases increase when you test more. What I stated is "California has had a spike in positive tests, due almost exclusively to an incredible increase in testing. " I also noted that the positive rate in San Diego has remained the same, which is true.  Nor was I saying we should not be testing more. 

The point of my post was that the rules in California shut you down if you get more positive tests when you test more. This creates a dis-incentiive to test more and has nothing to do with science. 

Try posting something accurate next time.


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## PcflEZFlng (Nov 16, 2020)

The raw case rate gets adjusted downward when there is more testing locally compared to the state mean. The adjusted case rate is what gets used in determining which tier the county falls into. Recently, for example, a 7.8 raw case rate was adjusted down to 6.9 (numbers approximate - I'm writing this from memory of what I saw on the San Diego County COVID site), which kept the county out of the Purple tier at the time. This was from a couple of weeks ago, before even the adjusted case rate went above 7.0.

Today's numbers were alarming - 1,087 positives out of 12,349 tests, for an 8.8% positive rate. That is by far the highest daily number seen in the county, surpassing the already-record number of 735 (out of 19,799 tests) from the day before. Hoping it's a single spike, but it's not looking good. Time will tell how this goes.


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## Ann in CA (Nov 16, 2020)

spookykennedy said:


> We have a check in on Friday at NCV and with the Governor's announcement now we are torn. We mostly hang around the resort and do some sightseeing by car. Is anyone there now? If it's going to be an extra weird vibe I think we will pass but are very sad about it.


We were supposed to be at NCV on November 29th, and Four Seasons Aviara on 12/6, but have canceled NCV and are still on the fence about Aviara.  We still have a bunch of free Bonvoy nights and 3 travel packages to use up (by mid January and early February) and just don't want to be away so much.  I have been rebooking (and retrading) lots of trips and then rebooking again, since we don't want to fly yet, and are rather limited on the West Coast.  I think we'd have been fine, as both NCV and Aviara are easy to socially distance, and we do not need sightseeing since we have lived in California forever, but have a grown son and his wife visiting over Christmas before they leave for his USAF assignment in Germany, and would not want to pick up anything contagious while wandering around the beaches and outdoor dining!  We have another NCV reservation for late January, and have had great weather in January and February in the past.  Not swimming weather, but sunny and beautiful.  We are just happy the fire danger will be reduced with the storms now coming in.  Our Waiohai res has been moved twice, and we now have a May reservation, but being seniors, the flying is a bit daunting. Still have to deal with accumulated points, but that can wait! With a granddaughter's wedding in Scotland rescheduled from last summer to June 2021, I am keeping my fingers crossed that we can be flying internationally again to use up some of those MVCI points in Spain and France, but not counting on it!  Good luck everyone!


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## Norcal5 (Nov 16, 2020)

Ann in CA said:


> We were supposed to be at NCV on November 29th, and Four Seasons Aviara on 12/6, but have canceled NCV and are still on the fence about Aviara.  We still have a bunch of free Bonvoy nights and 3 travel packages to use up (by mid January and early February) and just don't want to be away so much.  I have been rebooking (and retrading) lots of trips and then rebooking again, since we don't want to fly yet, and are rather limited on the West Coast.  I think we'd have been fine, as both NCV and Aviara are easy to socially distance, and we do not need sightseeing since we have lived in California forever, but have a grown son and his wife visiting over Christmas before they leave for his USAF assignment in Germany, and would not want to pick up anything contagious while wandering around the beaches and outdoor dining!  We have another NCV reservation for late January, and have had great weather in January and February in the past.  Not swimming weather, but sunny and beautiful.  We are just happy the fire danger will be reduced with the storms now coming in.  Our Waiohai res has been moved twice, and we now have a May reservation, but being seniors, the flying is a bit daunting. Still have to deal with accumulated points, but that can wait! With a granddaughter's wedding in Scotland rescheduled from last summer to June 2021, I am keeping my fingers crossed that we can be flying internationally again to use up some of those MVCI points in Spain and France, but not counting on it!  Good luck everyone!


Ann, From what I understand Marriott extended the travel packages to August 2021 recently.


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## turkel (Nov 16, 2020)

We routinely travel from East Bay in NorCal to Orange County in SoCal. We find it perfectly safe and far nicer in the O.C. More restaurants are open in SoCal. Everyone still wears masks. YMMV but if we had a trip planned to Palm Desert or SoCal coasts such as NCV or Aviara we would feel perfectly safe.


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## presley (Nov 16, 2020)

TravelTime said:


> I am wondering what other kid friendly activities are in the area. Do you have recommendations? I have never been down there yet.


All the typical outdoor things that you have anywhere else. Hiking, beaches, etc. Balboa Park is a popular tourist spot, but the indoor museums will likely be closed. Will it be fun to walk around anyway? That depends on what you like to do. Personally, I'll take outdoor stuff over indoors anytime, covid or not. I think the most difficult thing with planning ahead right now is that stuff can be open on the day you travel and then end up being closed a couple days later. 

The Zoo and Safari park have special tours for people in one household right now. You can look at those. I like the small private tours that they had before covid, so I think the current ones will be good, too. If they are still doing VIP tours, those are excellent, but around $600/pp. My husband and I did that for my birthday one year and we got to go behind the scenes in a lot of places and got to feed and pet some animals. Not sure if they still allow feeding and petting now.

Sea World will probably have a food event. I know they have had some and they even ran shows like the dolphin show. Not sure if they can still do that because we were downgraded from red to purple. Legoland had their aquarium open, but it sounds like they had to close it again. Not really sure. Also, several mayors in the county are not going to go after businesses that are open or not following the covid protoccols. They decided that it was the lowest priority and if the county has a problem with any of that, the county needs to enforce it. 

If you are trying to fill 2 weeks, that will be hard to do. You might have a decent visit for one week. It really depends on what you like to do. I could easily spend a week or 2 going to popular hiking spots, beach activities, etc.


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## SmithOp (Nov 16, 2020)

San Diego and Orange County each have over 3 million residents, we aren’t all sitting home twiddling our thumbs.

We would like to thank all the out of towners for staying away...

Meanwhile I’m off to H. beach today for a nice 20 mile bike ride. [Deleted] hasn’t closed the state beach parking lots yet and I have the annual Explorer pass.


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## sea&ski (Nov 16, 2020)

SmithOp said:


> San Diego and Orange County each have over 3 million residents, we aren’t all sitting home twiddling our thumbs.
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro



No, I am sure you are not because when we were there in September, I was most astonished at the sheer number of people out doing things.  Of course, it was Labor Day weekend...

Also, wrt to the hiking near NVC, we have hiked extensively in the El Moro area and really enjoyed it.


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## davidvel (Nov 16, 2020)

PcflEZFlng said:


> The raw case rate gets adjusted downward when there is more testing locally compared to the state mean. The adjusted case rate is what gets used in determining which tier the county falls into. Recently, for example, a 7.8 raw case rate was adjusted down to 6.9 (numbers approximate - I'm writing this from memory of what I saw on the San Diego County COVID site), which kept the county out of the Purple tier at the time. This was from a couple of weeks ago, before even the adjusted case rate went above 7.0.
> 
> Today's numbers were alarming - 1,087 positives out of 12,349 tests, for an 8.8% positive rate. That is by far the highest daily number seen in the county, surpassing the already-record number of 735 (out of 19,799 tests) from the day before. Hoping it's a single spike, but it's not looking good. Time will tell how this goes.


Correct, but when most big counties are significantly increasing testing, there is little to no adjustment.  So if every county increases tests by 10 and their "case rate" (I hate this term) goes from 6 to over 50, they should be shut down? This then penalizes all counties for increasing their testing, and it simply makes no sense to base on the raw (even if adjusted somewhat) numbers. Sorry, but no science behind this.  

Yes, a minimum amount of testing is necessary to ensure you are not just testing the sick, but the positive rate should be the factor, not raw positive tests. The positive rate has been trending upward the past two weeks in SD, and that number should be used for shutdowns.


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## csalter2 (Nov 16, 2020)

Orange County, where NCV are located, has officially gone to the restrictive purple tier per the Governor. I live here and everything for the most part has been open.  For those who come, know that there will be some limitations on things youmay wish to do.









						Restrictions on indoor dining return as Orange County moves back to purple tier
					

Restaurants had been gearing up for the holiday season with lots of reservations for Thanksgiving, Christmas and New Year’s Eve, albeit for smaller parties.




					www.ocregister.com


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## BJRSanDiego (Nov 16, 2020)

Steve A said:


> The positivity testing rate in Riverside County home of PD is 9.1%. So take your chances I’m not.
> 
> 
> 
> ...





Steve A said:


> The positivity testing rate in Riverside County home of PD is 9.1%. So take your chances I’m not.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I have some question as to the significance of the positivity rate.  I know that zero would be great (and impossible).  But I think that it is a weak statistic.  If the only people who were getting tested were those that had Covid symptoms and either went in for their self-test or were people referred by their doctor or hospital (if admitted) then a high positivity rate would be expected.  In fact, a 50 percent positivity rate would just mean that half the people tested didn't need to be tested.  But I also realize that a bunch of people are tested who are doing so only because they are required:  Nursing center personnel, medical personnel, etc. who are probably tested weekly.  Plus all of the people who are tested in order to avoid a 14 day quarantine.  So, there IS some value to the statistical positivity rate.  It is just a little weak without knowing the underlying universe of people getting the test.  If some people's jobs are requiring them to get weekly Covid testing, then that statistic would be a valuable one.  If we could somehow eliminate (from the positivity rate) the people who got tested because they are showing symptoms, then that would increase the value of the statistic.  Or if the people getting the test were randomly selected....

I think that there a better statistic is the case fatality rate (percent of covid positive people who die), and also the "excess death rate".  

But I accept that a high positivity rate generally represents a higher risk.  

I'm encouraged though - - more and more people are wearing masks and are wearing them correctly.  But there are still too many people who don't.


----------



## davidvel (Nov 17, 2020)

[Post deleted - nearly all of your posts in this thread include political sarcasm.  If you want your posts to stay up, follow the rules.]


----------



## Ann in CA (Nov 17, 2020)

Norcal5 said:


> Ann, From what I understand Marriott extended the travel packages to August 2021 recently.


Thanks.  Online they still say January and Feb. 2021, so I'll call to be sure.


----------



## zentraveler (Dec 3, 2020)

Yet another guideline/advisory/order (??) issued today involving ICU capacity numbers and mandatory no travel. Anyone have any more info about this or anyone at one of the So Cal resorts and hearing anything? Supposed to be in Palm Desert Sunday.


----------



## 10spro (Dec 3, 2020)

Palm Desert is in Riverside County, which is in the same "region" as San Bernardino County and Los Angeles County. That entire area is in pretty bad shape as far is surging cases and hospitalizations. It is fairly imminent that further restrictions are coming, it will be in the next days or maybe another week. Until then, restaurants are still serving outdoors, and it is pleasant weather for that. Golf courses are in great shape. Living Desert is open. Lots of places for hiking. During the last shutdown, there were lots of great restaurants offering take-out, golf should still be ok, but they might shut down tennis and pickleball.


----------



## zentraveler (Dec 3, 2020)

10spro said:


> Palm Desert is in Riverside County, which is in the same "region" as San Bernardino County and Los Angeles County. That entire area is in pretty bad shape as far is surging cases and hospitalizations. It is fairly imminent that further restrictions are coming, it will be in the next days or maybe another week. Until then, restaurants are still serving outdoors, and it is pleasant weather for that. Golf courses are in great shape. Living Desert is open. Lots of places for hiking. During the last shutdown, there were lots of great restaurants offering take-out, golf should still be ok, but they might shut down tennis and pickleball.



I guess we wait and see if they shut down resorts to only essential workers. We plan to do nothing but hike and the rare, brief trip to a grocery and have a change of scene. But won't work if they won't accept check ins in the next few days. 

But glad to hear the weather is pleasant.


----------



## davidvel (Dec 4, 2020)

10spro said:


> Palm Desert is in Riverside County, which is in the same "region" as San Bernardino County and Los Angeles County. That entire area is in pretty bad shape as far is surging cases and hospitalizations. It is fairly imminent that further restrictions are coming, it will be in the next days or maybe another week. Until then, restaurants are still serving outdoors, and it is pleasant weather for that. Golf courses are in great shape. Living Desert is open. Lots of places for hiking. During the last shutdown, there were lots of great restaurants offering take-out, golf should still be ok, but they might shut down tennis and pickleball.


Yes the state government decided to create an all new metric for shutting down, punishing those that are doing well. Continually moving the goal posts, of course always based on the science as interpreted by an all knowing single person. 

So San Diego, who has had very low positive rates, no ICU shortages, very low death rates, very good compliance with best practices, now gets lumped in with Los Angeles, Riverside, and Imperial counties, all of which have completely FAILED in controlling the spread of the virus, failed at stopping mass family gatherings, have huge positive and death rates despite their more severe restrictive policies. San Diego now is joined with these failure counties into a singular region. 

Sadly, this will only result in more reaction and revolts, because there is no rhyme nor reason in the policies, which are certainly not rooted in science whatsoever.


----------



## lily28 (Dec 4, 2020)

I original plan to go to San Diego for Christmas.  So is San Diego in lockdown and has order for stay home?


----------



## BigDawgTUG (Dec 4, 2020)

Once ICU remaining capacity in the SoCal region goes below 15%, then the entire SoCal region, including San Diego and Orange Counties, will be in lock-down for 3 weeks.  Most people believe that threshold will be reached within a week.


----------



## TravelTime (Dec 4, 2020)

My hairdresser just contacted me to reschedule my appointment to tomorrow because she thinks hair salons will be shut down. It seems like California is going back into shut down mode. I get emails almost daily about different things closing.


----------



## zentraveler (Dec 4, 2020)

There is now some clarity about resorts and whether they will only be allowed to accept essential workers, now that the written order is available. This from an attorney (my husband who quotes the order) written in legalese of course: 

Specifically, in-state lodging reservations can still be honored:

"3. Except as otherwise required by law, no hotel or lodging entity in California shall accept or honor out of state reservations for non-essential travel, unless the reservation is for at least the minimum time period required for quarantine and the persons identified in the reservation will quarantine in the hotel or lodging entity until after that time period has expired." 

This provision goes into effect statewide tomorrow afternoon, regardless of whether the region has met the less-than-15%-ICU test.


----------



## VacationForever (Dec 4, 2020)

zentraveler said:


> There is now some clarity about resorts and whether they will only be allowed to accept essential workers, now that the written order is available. This from an attorney (my husband who quotes the order) written in legalese of course:
> 
> Specifically, in-state lodging reservations can still be honored:
> 
> ...


Is this for California statewide or county specific?  Will you please send a link that is not behind a paywall?  I cannot find the order.  We are heading out to Riverside County next month.  Thank you!


----------



## Luanne (Dec 4, 2020)

VacationForever said:


> Is this for California statewide or county specific?  Will you please send a link that is not behind a paywall?  I cannot find the order.  We are heading out to Riverside County next month.  Thank you!


I found this which has a lot of information.  Maybe your questions will be answered somewhere in there.









						Current safety measures
					

Steps you can take to protect yourself from COVID-19 and prevent its spread.




					covid19.ca.gov


----------



## VacationForever (Dec 4, 2020)

Luanne said:


> I found this which has a lot of information.  Maybe your questions will be answered somewhere in there.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I actually found the new stay at home directive which goes into effect this Saturday by going through each site.  The order is newer than the link here.  It was just announced by Newsom today.


----------



## Luanne (Dec 4, 2020)

VacationForever said:


> I actually found the new stay at home directive which goes into effect this Saturday by going through each site.  The order is newer than the link here.  It was just announced by Newsom today.


Glad you found what you needed.  There was a lot of information in the link I posted, but some of it was somewhat vague.  What I got from it was basically, don't travel into the state without expecting to quarantine, and if you are already in the state, stay put.


----------



## mjm1 (Dec 4, 2020)

zentraveler said:


> There is now some clarity about resorts and whether they will only be allowed to accept essential workers, now that the written order is available. This from an attorney (my husband who quotes the order) written in legalese of course:
> 
> Specifically, in-state lodging reservations can still be honored:
> 
> ...



Thanks for sharing this information. 

My DW and I have reservations for 8 nights in Palm Desert just after Christmas and we live in Las Vegas. Not sure if the required quarantine is 14 days, but if it is this sounds like we would not allowed to go. Am I understanding it correctly?

I just called Marriott Desert Springs and they have not been informed of this as of this time.

Best regards.

Mike


----------



## sparty (Dec 4, 2020)

zentraveler said:


> Yet another guideline/advisory/order (??) issued today involving ICU capacity numbers and mandatory no travel. Anyone have any more info about this or anyone at one of the So Cal resorts and hearing anything? Supposed to be in Palm Desert Sunday.





mjm1 said:


> Thanks for sharing this information.
> 
> My DW and I have reservations for 8 nights in Palm Desert just after Christmas and we live in Las Vegas. Not sure if the required quarantine is 14 days, but if it is this sounds like we would not allowed to go. Am I understanding it correctly?
> 
> ...



Yes, this is my understanding.  So what is the refund policy for getaways and for interval trades if it's illegal to go?


----------



## 10spro (Dec 4, 2020)

So regarding the new California stay-at-home order, it is triggered by ICU capacity, which many guess Southern California (Newport, Palm Desert, San Diego) to hit the 15% threshold next week. That same stay-at-home order also covers Northern California, which is not as close to the threshold, however, 5 San Francisco Bay Area counties just triggered the order to start on Sunday. They did not wait for the threshold. I think anyone who wants to travel during these times, which I am one, coming back to California tomorrow from 2 weeks in Maui, you just need to be really flexible with your plans. The restaurant we really like for outdoor dining just shut down for a few days because 3 employees tested positive. It doesn't mean I can't still enjoy Maui, but you just have to go with the flow. If you don't like eating dinner in your room or on your patio then vacation might not be fun during the lockdown. I would make for sure any upcoming travel plans, especially those through Interval, or Marriott in my case, you need to know what your cancellation options are so that you don't lose points or weeks or money.


----------



## gln60 (Dec 4, 2020)

SmithOp said:


> Thats a “should”, no enforcement, or even a way to enforce it.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro


100% correct


----------



## Pamplemousse (Dec 4, 2020)

sparty said:


> Yes, this is my understanding.  So what is the refund policy for getaways and for interval trades if it's illegal to go?



II getaways are final sale. II might give you an AC or maybe credit on another getaway if you call and let them know the quarantine rules won’t allow you to go but that is probably all if the resort is open.

You  an always retrade or cancel an exchange. You just need to pay a new exchange fee. Act more than 60days from check in if you can to avoid flexchange restrictions.


----------



## zentraveler (Dec 4, 2020)

mjm1 said:


> Thanks for sharing this information.
> 
> My DW and I have reservations for 8 nights in Palm Desert just after Christmas and we live in Las Vegas. Not sure if the required quarantine is 14 days, but if it is this sounds like we would not allowed to go. Am I understanding it correctly?
> 
> ...



Yes you are in terms of the quarantine, as of now. Much like Hawaii has done. [And their case count/hospitalizations are quite low by comparrison to the rest of the country.]


----------



## VacationForever (Dec 4, 2020)

mjm1 said:


> Thanks for sharing this information.
> 
> My DW and I have reservations for 8 nights in Palm Desert just after Christmas and we live in Las Vegas. Not sure if the required quarantine is 14 days, but if it is this sounds like we would not allowed to go. Am I understanding it correctly?
> 
> ...


I plan to call MVC on Monday to find out whether they are going to refuse check-ins if their stays are shorter than 14 nights.  With COVID-19 restrictions todate, many of the Vistana and Marriott resorts have instituted a different policy for timeshare from hotels, in that owners are coming to their timeshare home instead of being hotel guests.


----------



## Luanne (Dec 4, 2020)

VacationForever said:


> I plan to call MVC on Monday to find out whether they are going to refuse check-ins if their stays are shorter than 14 nights.  With COVID-19 restrictions todate, many of the Vistana and Marriott resorts have instituted a different policy for timeshare from hotels, in that owners are coming to their timeshare home instead of being hotel guests.


You may find that what you are told my the resort and what the actual health order is are in conflict.  That has been happening here in New Mexico.  Hotels are telling guest to come on ahead, they're open, and not mentioning the quarantine.

I found this from the CA health order:

The governor's office noted: "Except as otherwise required by law, no hotel or lodging entity in California shall accept or honor out of state reservations for non-essential travel, unless the reservation is for at least the minimum time period required for quarantine and the persons identified in the reservation will quarantine in the hotel or lodging entity until after that time period has expired." 

If the timeshares can get around the "no hotel or lodging entity" thing they might be able to be open for their guests.  But I think it's a thin leg to try to stand on.


----------



## SmithOp (Dec 4, 2020)

More bad news tonite, waiting for a press conference from LA Mayor Garcetti. The city budget is tanking, talk about laying off 1,000 police officers.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro


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## rhonda (Dec 4, 2020)

DVC delayed re-opening their Grand California Villas at Disneyland Resort.  They had been planning to reopen, only to DVC reservations, on 12/6 but responding to the new CA guidelines has pushed this back indefinitely (no target date mentioned).


----------



## turkel (Dec 4, 2020)

SmithOp said:


> More bad news tonite, waiting for a press conference from LA Mayor Garcetti. The city budget is tanking, talk about laying off 1,000 police officers.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro


Brilliant


----------



## b2bailey (Dec 4, 2020)

zentraveler said:


> There is now some clarity about resorts and whether they will only be allowed to accept essential workers, now that the written order is available. This from an attorney (my husband who quotes the order) written in legalese of course:
> 
> Specifically, in-state lodging reservations can still be honored:
> 
> ...


I'm confused by the mention of "out of state" reservations.


----------



## mjm1 (Dec 4, 2020)

b2bailey said:


> I'm confused by the mention of "out of state" reservations.



I believe that means people who live outside of CA and have reservations in CA.


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## b2bailey (Dec 4, 2020)

mjm1 said:


> I believe that means people who live outside of CA and have reservations in CA.


Thanks. What I am asking is whether CA hotels will accept instate reservations.


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## Luanne (Dec 4, 2020)

b2bailey said:


> Thanks. What I am asking is whether CA hotels will accept instate reservations.


Doesn't the order also say that CA residents shouldn't travel.


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## zentraveler (Dec 5, 2020)

Luanne said:


> Doesn't the order also say that CA residents shouldn't travel.



My understanding (from the lawyer husband) is that, currently as of now, in-state residents are _advised_ not to travel, but resorts and lodging are not prohibited from honoring reservations (i.e. they do not need to restrict to only essential workers).


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## klpca (Dec 5, 2020)

I found this article fairly informative. "A user's guide to the state's regional stay-at-home order - The San Diego Union-Tribune" https://www.sandiegouniontribune.co...-states-regional-stay-at-home-order?_amp=true

There's a useful chart. Pretty much all of Southern CA will be moving in to the most restrictive tier since they are lumping all of the counties together to determine ICU capacity for the region. Locally we are doing reasonably well, but LA and Riverside are in pretty dire straits so everyone will be stuck at home to preserve the ICU capacity. I feel awful for our local businesses honestly. It's a very bitter pill.


----------



## zentraveler (Dec 5, 2020)

klpca said:


> I found this article fairly informative. "A user's guide to the state's regional stay-at-home order - The San Diego Union-Tribune" https://www.sandiegouniontribune.co...-states-regional-stay-at-home-order?_amp=true
> 
> There's a useful chart. Pretty much all of Southern CA will be moving in to the most restrictive tier since they are lumping all of the counties together to determine ICU capacity for the region. Locally we are doing reasonably well, but LA and Riverside are in pretty dire straits so everyone will be stuck at home to preserve the ICU capacity. I feel awful for our local businesses honestly. It's a very bitter pill.



Yes, very useful. What is missing in all of these articles (to date) is anything explicit about lodging. Both in and out of state people have current reservations that start soon (ours is tomorrow!) and the information about what that means is implied but not addressed outright; not the most helpful, but I imagine it is to just have people stay home, which is fair enough.


----------



## klpca (Dec 5, 2020)

zentraveler said:


> Yes, very useful. What is missing in all of these articles (to date) is anything explicit about lodging. Both in and out of state people have current reservations that start soon (ours is tomorrow!) and the information about what that means is implied but not addressed outright; not the most helpful, but I imagine it is to just have people stay home, which is fair enough.


This was what they said in the article with respect to lodging: 
*Hotels and lodging*

The new stay-at-home order prohibits hotel use for tourism, leisure and other nonessential reasons. Hotel and other lodging locations can remain open, but only to support critical infrastructure sectors.


----------



## Luanne (Dec 5, 2020)

klpca said:


> This was what they said in the article with respect to lodging:
> *Hotels and lodging*
> 
> The new stay-at-home order prohibits hotel use for tourism, leisure and other nonessential reasons. Hotel and other lodging locations can remain open, but only to support critical infrastructure sectors.


Doesn't sound like they are differentiating between those who are in state and those coming from out of state.


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## b2bailey (Dec 5, 2020)

klpca said:


> This was what they said in the article with respect to lodging:
> *Hotels and lodging*
> 
> The new stay-at-home order prohibits hotel use for tourism, leisure and other nonessential reasons. Hotel and other lodging locations can remain open, but only to support critical infrastructure sectors.


THIS -- is the reason I decided to forego my Newport Coast reservation that was to start 12/11 and use my last remaining e-plus to book Ko-Olina in January. (Still a daring choice, but that's how I roll.)


----------



## VacationForever (Dec 5, 2020)

We just cancelled our first week of stay at Palm Desert area at end of January.  We are still holding onto the 2nd week in February hoping that things will improve.


----------



## jancurious (Dec 5, 2020)

I would suggest that any of you that have reservations at any California timeshares within the next few weeks until through January, definitely follow the link on the Marriott website or call the resort before coming.  We are currently at Newport and they should remain open at least for owners because they have owners that own 52 weeks and live here full-time.  (Told us that in May)  We called South Lake Tahoe Marriott today and they are still trying to get information from the government to see if they will be forced to close when their region closes (Greater Sacramento).  The order is that all hotels and state campgrounds must close once their region falls below 15% ICU capacity.  Two of the states five regions fell below that level today - Southern California & San Joaquin Valley  will be shut down by Sunday night.  We came yesterday knowing that many regions would probably shut down sometime during this week but we pretty much do what we do at home at Newport - Enjoy our balcony view, take beach walks, play pickle ball and cook inside or at the most get take out.  If you want to learn more about the new Regional Stay at Home Order you can read this link:  https://covid19.ca.gov/stay-home-except-for-essential-needs/#rsho-qas


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## b2bailey (Dec 6, 2020)

jancurious said:


> I would suggest that any of you that have reservations at any California timeshares within the next few weeks until through January, definitely follow the link on the Marriott website or call the resort before coming.  We are currently at Newport and they should remain open at least for owners because they have owners that own 52 weeks and live here full-time.  (Told us that in May)  We called South Lake Tahoe Marriott today and they are still trying to get information from the government to see if they will be forced to close when their region closes (Greater Sacramento).  The order is that all hotels and state campgrounds must close once their region falls below 15% ICU capacity.  Two of the states five regions fell below that level today - Southern California & San Joaquin Valley  will be shut down by Sunday night.  We came yesterday knowing that many regions would probably shut down sometime during this week but we pretty much do what we do at home at Newport - Enjoy our balcony view, take beach walks, play pickle ball and cook inside or at the most get take out.  If you want to learn more about the new Regional Stay at Home Order you can read this link:  https://covid19.ca.gov/stay-home-except-for-essential-needs/#rsho-qas


It is interesting that the two Marriotts would have different approaches.


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## sea&ski (Dec 6, 2020)

We were told, back in March while staying at one of our home resorts, that despite all, the timeshare must allow owners to occupy.  Anyone with any other sort of reservation is SOL, not that there was anything to do at the time - so no reason to be there.


----------



## Foggy1 (Dec 6, 2020)

sea&ski said:


> We were told, back in March while staying at one of our home resorts, that despite all, the timeshare must allow owners to occupy. Anyone with any other sort of reservation is SOL, not that there was anything to do at the time - so no reason to be there.


I have heard this also.  However, is there a difference between someone who occupies as a weeks owner and someone who occupies using points?


----------



## klpca (Dec 6, 2020)

Foggy1 said:


> I have heard this also.  However, is there a difference between someone who occupies as a weeks owner and someone who occupies using points?


I assume that one is a deeded owner of the specific property.


----------



## davidvel (Dec 6, 2020)

klpca said:


> I assume that one is a deeded owner of the specific property.


At California Marriott timeshares, they were honoring II week exchanges as well during the initial shutdown.


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## Bill4728 (Dec 6, 2020)

In Sept when Hawaii did their covid shutdown, MVC point owners could not make a reservation at the Hawaii TSs  

BUT I understand people who had reserved weeks before the shutdown still could use their week.


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## TravelTime (Dec 6, 2020)

California is shutting down the zoos according to an email I got from the San Diego Zoo. This is getting serious.


----------



## bogey21 (Dec 6, 2020)

I'm not sure which is right but here in Texas we seem to be leaning more toward limitations and citizen responsibility rather than total shut downs...

George


----------



## DeniseM (Dec 6, 2020)

George - Are you referring to Marriott timeshares in Texas? That's what we are discussing here.


----------



## Luanne (Dec 6, 2020)

bogey21 said:


> I'm not sure which is right but here in Texas we seem to be leaning more toward limitations and citizen responsibility rather than total shut downs...
> 
> George


If citizens would act responsibly then there might not be the need for total shut downs.


----------



## DeniseM (Dec 6, 2020)

OK - Let's not go down that road.  This thread is about staying at Newport Coast Villas.


----------



## alchook (Dec 6, 2020)

So if Marriott cancels a reservation made with points expiring at the end of the year are they just lost?


----------



## Luanne (Dec 6, 2020)

sea&ski said:


> We were told, back in March while staying at one of our home resorts, that despite all, the timeshare must allow owners to occupy.  Anyone with any other sort of reservation is SOL, not that there was anything to do at the time - so no reason to be there.


I assume you are saying you were told by the resort.  I wonder if they know what they will be allowed to do.  And honestly, I wouldn't trust their information.  They want to stay open.  Here in New Mexico we have a 14 day quarantine for anyone coming into the state. But, are the hotels telling guests that?  Nope, not most of them anyway.


----------



## sea&ski (Dec 6, 2020)

Luanne said:


> I assume you are saying you were told by the resort.  I wonder if they know what they will be allowed to do.  And honestly, I wouldn't trust their information.  They want to stay open.  Here in New Mexico we have a 14 day quarantine for anyone coming into the state. But, are the hotels telling guests that?  Nope, not most of them anyway.


We were standing in our timeshare villa, facing a woman with rubber gloves and a clipboard.  She wanted to know what we were doing.  We asked her what we were doing.  She said that it was our prerogative to occupy the rooms however there were no amenities, no activities, but at least there were electricit(ies) so we packed up our east coast visitors, put them on a plane and then we left.  We received zero compensation from Marriott VC for the remaining 5 days of our week.


----------



## davidvel (Dec 6, 2020)

DeniseM said:


> George - Are you referring to Marriott timeshares in Texas? That's what we are discussing here.


Actually, we should be discussing California's new order on NCV, or other CA MVC timeshares.


----------



## davidvel (Dec 6, 2020)

jancurious said:


> I would suggest that any of you that have reservations at any California timeshares within the next few weeks until through January, definitely follow the link on the Marriott website or call the resort before coming.  We are currently at Newport and they should remain open at least for owners because they have owners that own 52 weeks and live here full-time.  (Told us that in May)  We called South Lake Tahoe Marriott today and they are still trying to get information from the government to see if they will be forced to close when their region closes (Greater Sacramento).  The order is that all hotels and state campgrounds must close once their region falls below 15% ICU capacity.  Two of the states five regions fell below that level today - Southern California & San Joaquin Valley  will be shut down by Sunday night.  We came yesterday knowing that many regions would probably shut down sometime during this week but we pretty much do what we do at home at Newport - Enjoy our balcony view, take beach walks, play pickle ball and cook inside or at the most get take out.  If you want to learn more about the new Regional Stay at Home Order you can read this link:  https://covid19.ca.gov/stay-home-except-for-essential-needs/#rsho-qas


Where did you get the statement "The order is that all hotels and state campgrounds must close once their region falls below 15% ICU capacity "?  I can't find anything in the order (see link below) saying that. The pertinent language I find (at p. 2-3) is:

_2.
...
g. To promote and protect the physical and mental well-being of people in California, outdoor recreation facilities may continue to operate. Those facilities may not sell food or drink for on-site consumption. Overnight stays at campgrounds are not permitted. 

h. *Nothing in this Order prevents any number of persons from the same household from leaving their* residence, *lodging, or temporary accommodation,* as long as they do not engage in any interaction with (or otherwise gather with) any number of persons from any other household, except as specifically permitted herein.
...
3. Except as otherwise required by law, *no hotel or lodging entity in California shall accept or honor out of state reservations for non-essential travel*, unless the reservation is for at least the minimum time period required for quarantine and the persons identified in the reservation will quarantine in the hotel or lodging entity until after that time period has expired. _



			https://www.gov.ca.gov/wp-content/uploads/2020/12/12.3.20-Stay-at-Home-Order-ICU-Scenario.pdf


----------



## jabberwocky (Dec 6, 2020)

What a mess. Now there are two sheriffs (Riverside and Orange County) who are stating they don’t view these as valid orders and won’t enforce them.










						Most of California will be home for Christmas under Gov. Gavin Newsom's stay-at-home orders
					

The COVID-19 restrictions are similar to those established in March, when California was among the first states to take action to combat the pandemic.



					www.usatoday.com
				



]


----------



## davidvel (Dec 7, 2020)

jabberwocky said:


> What a mess. Now there are two sheriffs (Riverside and Orange County) who are stating they don’t view these as valid orders and won’t enforce them.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Lots more than just these two in California.  And oh no, a judge in Los Angeles has required the health department to explain (with admissible scientific expert evidence), why outdoor dining was shut down, despite their own department saying outdoor dining does not meaningfully contribute to the spread, as the order otherwise doesn't pass constitutional muster.  To be continued. . .


----------



## Luanne (Dec 7, 2020)

davidvel said:


> Lots more than just these two in California.  And oh no, a judge in Los Angeles has required the health department to explain (with admissible scientific expert evidence), why outdoor dining was shut down, despite their own department saying outdoor dining does not meaningfully contribute to the spread, as the order otherwise doesn't pass constitutional muster.  To be continued. . .


And yet people wonder why we can't get control of this virus.


----------



## davidvel (Dec 7, 2020)

Luanne said:


> And yet people wonder why we can't get control of this virus.


Yeah, China did much better as they weren't restricted by a constitution.


----------



## JIMinNC (Dec 7, 2020)

davidvel said:


> Lots more than just these two in California.  And oh no, a judge in Los Angeles has required the health department to explain (with admissible scientific expert evidence), why outdoor dining was shut down, despite their own department saying outdoor dining does not meaningfully contribute to the spread, as the order otherwise doesn't pass constitutional muster.  To be continued. . .



Yep, there's that pesky Constitution again!


----------



## jabberwocky (Dec 7, 2020)

davidvel said:


> Yeah, China did much better as they weren't restricted by a constitution.


China did a hard shut-down. You couldn’t leave your house at all, public transit stopped operating and the press wasn’t allowed to report what was really happening. So yeah, if you have a dictator, complete surveillance of the population and a state security apparatus that knows no boundaries, then yes, this might work. 

The other thing is that China doesn’t count asymptotic cases and appears to have significantly underreported their cases. A few of my contacts within China tell me they don’t trust the government reporting, people are afraid to get tested when sick, and find it suspicious that all new cases of covid in the country seem to be related to imported frozen food.


----------



## Big Matt (Dec 7, 2020)

I understand this is about NCV, but I would like to hear from folks who live in the Palm Desert area.  Any thoughts?  I saw that VacationForever is cancelling.  I have a week with a Feb. 5 check in.


----------



## presley (Dec 7, 2020)

Big Matt said:


> I understand this is about NCV, but I would like to hear from folks who live in the Palm Desert area.  Any thoughts?  I saw that VacationForever is cancelling.  I have a week with a Feb. 5 check in.


I think it's too early in the shutdown for anyone to know. I have a friend going to a Marriott Palm Desert this week and I asked if she thought it would even be open. She just shrugged her shoulders and said she doesn't know. I know the order says hotel lodging is only available for critical infrastructure, but timeshares are more of a vacation home. I think it's going to boil down to if the staff is allowed to work. There certainly can't be any group activities under the order.


----------



## dsmrp (Dec 7, 2020)

Big Matt said:


> I understand this is about NCV, but I would like to hear from folks who live in the Palm Desert area.  Any thoughts?  I saw that VacationForever is cancelling.  I have a week with a Feb. 5 check in.


We had an II exchange to Desert Springs DSV,  Christmas Eve check-in which I retraded. Was going to drive, not fly, but would have to stay overnight at hotel enroute. So a no-go and too risky anyway with rising rates and lock-downs. 

If people gather at Christmas, then I assume another surge in mid-January, and an extension or reinstatement of SIP restrictions. So a Feb 5 check-in is still iffy IMO. You're already less than 59 days to check in, so might as well wait till early January and see what happens.


----------



## gln60 (Dec 7, 2020)

dsmrp said:


> We had an II exchange to Desert Springs DSV,  Christmas Eve check-in which I retraded. Was going to drive, not fly, but would have to stay overnight at hotel enroute. So a no-go and too risky anyway with rising rates and lock-downs.
> 
> If people gather at Christmas, then I assume another surge in mid-January, and an extension or reinstatement of SIP restrictions. So a Feb 5 check-in is still iffy IMO. You're already less than 59 days to check in, so might as well wait till early January and see what happens.


IMO..South Florida is a better choice to vacation the next couple of months..everything is open..weather is great and no chance of last minute lockdowns like California...Marriot resorts are very nice..might be worth a look


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## Big Matt (Dec 7, 2020)

I just re-traded to a March 1 check in.  I'll keep an eye on it.


----------



## SteelerGal (Dec 7, 2020)

We are at Shadow Ridge 12/20 so we will see. I believe the next 2wks we will see if TS and AirBnB will be affected.


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## davidvel (Dec 7, 2020)

presley said:


> *I know the order says hotel lodging is only available for critical infrastructure*, but timeshares are more of a vacation home.


Where in the Order did you see this?


----------



## presley (Dec 7, 2020)

davidvel said:


> Where in the Order did you see this?


Saw it a couple times in the last couple days on the news, but had a really hard time finding it in a government website. Found this in LA Times: https://www.latimes.com/california/...-works-california-newsom-essential-california
"The new regional stay-at-home order also prohibits nonessential travel. Hotels can stay open to support lodging needed for “critical infrastructure sectors,” but the order prohibits hotel use for tourism, leisure and other nonessential reasons. "


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## presley (Dec 7, 2020)

presley said:


> Saw it a couple times in the last couple days on the news, but had a really hard time finding it in a government website. Found this in LA Times: https://www.latimes.com/california/...-works-california-newsom-essential-california
> "The new regional stay-at-home order also prohibits nonessential travel. Hotels can stay open to support lodging needed for “critical infrastructure sectors,” but the order prohibits hotel use for tourism, leisure and other nonessential reasons. "


Found it finally:








						California Health Officials Announce a Regional Stay at Home Order Triggered by ICU Capacity | California Governor
					

Health officials are tracking the state by five regions: Northern California, Bay Area, Greater Sacramento, San Joaquin Valley and Southern California Regional Stay at Home Order takes effect Saturday…




					www.gov.ca.gov


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## SteelerGal (Dec 7, 2020)

davidvel said:


> Where in the Order did you see this?


During the past lockdown, TS was allowed to open before hotels because they of their consideration.  We are assuming the same applies in this situation. However we know that each County Health Department can restrict further than the State mandate.


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## SteelerGal (Dec 7, 2020)

HGVC in Carlsbad is not accepting new reservations 12/6-12/27due to the Stay @ Home orders.  Current reservations are still being accepted.


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## california8399 (Dec 7, 2020)

Was just told that we can check in at WDW in Palm Desert today but that they are waiting for a decision from corporate that may force them to close tomorrow and guests would be asked to leave.


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## davidvel (Dec 7, 2020)

presley said:


> Found it finally:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I've seen that and heard the news repeating it, but that is not in the order itself.  The order, assuming it is legal, controls. Not a state web page or reporters interpreting it.


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## zentraveler (Dec 7, 2020)

Although a bit off topic from Marriott.NCV I am posting because I am because I have been on this thread (but denise M/mods fees free delete or move)

We showed up in Palm desert yesterday at 4 pm check-in time (non Marriott) and were told that they were closing at midnight but honoring existing reservations. And we will be permitted to stay our week. When asked about NEXT weekends existing reservation. was told that they would be contacting owners to refund their points. In other words if you have a reservation beyond yesterday you should check with your resort _before_ you travel.

We have two Marriott Canyon Villas reservations for January so, like everyone else, we wait. The irony is we are as islolated here as at home; no eating out, no nothing, really, except scenery and hiking. And the rare take-out.


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## zentraveler (Dec 7, 2020)

Big Matt said:


> I understand this is about NCV, but I would like to hear from folks who live in the Palm Desert area.  Any thoughts?  I saw that VacationForever is cancelling.  I have a week with a Feb. 5 check in.



We are at Embarc Palm Desert right now and got here at 4 pm yesterday ahead of the 11:59 pm deadline. They said they were closing but would honor our reservation and allow us to stay the week. We have a second week reservation at the Westin Mission Hills and I went there today and was told that since I could not stay quarantined for 14 days (reservation only 7) our reservation would be cancelled. 

All of the restaurants have ceased outdoor dining but are open for take out. The order lasts for 3 weeks but may, of course, be extended.


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## WalnutBaron (Dec 7, 2020)

We had a reservation at Desert Springs Villas I for next week. Just got word today that our reservation--and all reservations for the resort for check-ins prior to 29 December--are cancelled. I have to wait to contact Marriott tomorrow to see how I can re-schedule. Ugh.


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## samara64 (Dec 7, 2020)

Just got this email from MVCI for my stay starting Dec 26:

*Dear Exchange Guests,*

Due to the unprecedented situation surrounding the spread of the Novel Coronavirus (COVID-19), we wanted to make you aware that the Public Health Officer of the State of California issued a Regional Stay at Home Order on December 3, 2020 ("Order"), which provides for criteria that, when met for a specific region of California, implements prohibitions of the Order for that region of California. The Order, among other things, prohibits most travel in a region of California in which the criteria has been met. As of Sunday, December 6, 2020, the region that includes the resort has met the criteria for travel limitations to be enacted.

As a result of the Order, reservations for arrivals to Marriott's Newport Coast Villas prior to December 29, 2020 will be canceled. Please contact Interval International® directly to discuss available options in connection with your canceled reservation.

If you are traveling to Marriott's Newport Coast Villas with respect to supporting "critical infrastructure" or as otherwise permitted by the Order, please contact Interval International to request a reinstatement of your reservation. Please note that exchange guests traveling to the resort will be required to complete an acknowledgment upon arrival to the resort certifying their stay will be in compliance with the Order.

We appreciate your understanding.

Sincerely,

Marriott Vacation Club®


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## djyamyam (Dec 7, 2020)

samara64 said:


> Just got this email from MVCI for my stay starting Dec 26:
> 
> *Dear Exchange Guests,*
> 
> ...



I also received the same type of email for a Shadow Ridge reservation (that I had already rebooked)


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## SteelerGal (Dec 7, 2020)

samara64 said:


> Just got this email from MVCI for my stay starting Dec 26:
> 
> *Dear Exchange Guests,*
> 
> ...


Just received the email for Shadow Ridge as well.


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## jabberwocky (Dec 7, 2020)

My BIL got one for DSV2.


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## sjsharkie (Dec 7, 2020)

Interesting how this will play out in Tahoe...

So I assume Marriott Timber Lodge will similarly close on the CA side, but you can stay a mile away in Harrah's or a couple miles away in the timeshares up in Kingsbury Grade as they are in Nevada. So weird...

(Sorry, I know off topic from NCV so mods feel free to move.  I was more referencing CA closures as a whole)

Sent from my SM-G781U using Tapatalk


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## chemteach (Dec 7, 2020)

I just received an email from Marriott about my DSV 2 exchange reservation through II being cancelled.  Is anyone familiar with how II handles these cancellations?  I'm wondering what happens to the week that I used - whether it is just lost, or if II will give me a week to use for an exchange.  I guess I'll call them, but I imagine their lines will be very busy now with people calling about cancellations.


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## titanium2019 (Dec 7, 2020)

Got two emails regarding an upcoming but now cancelled stay at NCV. I subsequently just did an II exchange online using one of my e-Plus retrades. There is no need to call if you purchased that add-on for flexibility/insurance. I got a second email regarding the MVC points I had used to add to the length of the original stay. These go into a holding account with a 120 day window and expiration end of 2021. These points would otherwise have expired at the end of this year.


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## lily28 (Dec 7, 2020)

I got email from Wyndham cancelling reservation at San Diego for 12/20.  So look like not just Marriott but other timeshare co are cancelling reservation at California too


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## alchook (Dec 7, 2020)

Interesting. I have a reservation for Shadow Ridge Enclaves for 15 nights starting December 21, and I just got a reservation confirmation from Marriott.


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## Norcal5 (Dec 7, 2020)

I called NCV and they said reservations over 14 days will be allowed to check in.  Points reservations will be refunded.


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## davidvel (Dec 8, 2020)

sjsharkie said:


> Interesting how this will play out in Tahoe...
> 
> So I assume Marriott Timber Lodge will similarly close on the CA side, but you can stay a mile away in Harrah's or a couple miles away in the timeshares up in Kingsbury Grade as they are in Nevada. So weird...
> 
> ...


I've been thinking the same, which is why I've been involved in this thread. Your post motivated me to retrade my Timber Lodge first of January week to Ridge as insurance.


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## winger (Dec 8, 2020)

davidvel said:


> Do what you want and think is best. [Deleted] The state has not imposed any rules, orders or any restrictions on travel, and no travel quarantine is in place.
> 
> The headlines claiming that there  has been some new "spike" relates only to positive tests, based upon more tests. The positive rate has not significantly increased yet.
> 
> ...


My understanding is that one metric used for the latest restrictions is # of available ICU beds in a certain specified region falls below 15%.   So, it is not just # of positive cases. Also remember two things -  1) higher positive cases should result in more hospitalizations, and there is a lag time in weeks on this.  Deaths follow even further downstream.   2) higher COVID hospitalizations WILL MEAN lower quality of timely care for people needing other non-COVID related attention.  Aside from available ICU beds, another resource in all this is medical staff.  Over burdened medical system means stressed medical staff and I believe all of us want fresh nurses or doctor attending to us if we or loved ones end up in urgent care or emergency.


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## davidvel (Dec 8, 2020)

winger said:


> My understanding is that one metric used for the latest restrictions is # of available ICU beds in a certain specified region falls below 15%.   So, it is not just # of positive cases. Also remember two things -  1) higher positive cases should result in more hospitalizations, and there is a lag time in weeks on this.  Deaths follow even further downstream.   2) higher COVID hospitalizations WILL MEAN lower quality of timely care for people needing other non-COVID related attention.  Aside from available ICU beds, another resource in all this is medical staff.  Over burdened medical system means stressed medical staff and I believe all of us want fresh nurses or doctor attending to us if we or loved ones end up in urgent care or emergency.


You're quoting a post of mine from almost a month ago, November 14.

You state some things, but don't really make a point.

San Diego has 24% ICU capacity, with the ability to ramp up more if needed, due to robust county and city management, and compliance by residents.

Yet, we are grouped by the state's leader with surrounding counties that can't manage their populations and have non-compliant citizens. So we are shut down and people are losing their jobs and businesses, and lives. 

San Diego Icu availability =24%
So cal region=10.9%

Today, no new deaths in San Diego.

The regional system has been gerrymandered to ensure the whole state is shut down. This is not science, it is politics.


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## sjsharkie (Dec 8, 2020)

davidvel said:


> I've been thinking the same, which is why I've been involved in this thread. Your post motivated me to retrade my Timber Lodge first of January week to Ridge as insurance.


Probably less risky. Even though the order could be lifted by Jan, probably a safer bet that Nevada does not impose a lock down.

Obviously TL is nicer and closer to gondola, but Stagecoach lift is likely less crowded and not too far from Ridge. It gets so packed at the gondola near TL - and its tough to socially distance down there. Up on the mountain I have less worries.

Now all we need is more snow  Safe travels.

Sent from my SM-G781U using Tapatalk


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## gln60 (Dec 8, 2020)

davidvel said:


> You're quoting a post of mine from almost a month ago, November 14.
> 
> You state some things, but don't really make a point.
> 
> ...


100% CORRECT


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## CA Richard (Dec 8, 2020)

We received this email from MVC last night regarding our upcoming reservation for December 13:


*Dear Owners,*

Due to the unprecedented situation surrounding the spread of the Novel Coronavirus (COVID-19), we wanted to make you aware that the Public Health Officer of the State of California issued a Regional Stay at Home Order on December 3, 2020 ("Order"), which provides for criteria that, when met for a specific region of California, implements prohibitions of the Order for that region of California. The Order, among other things, prohibits most travel in a region of California in which the criteria has been met. As of Sunday, December 6, 2020, the region that includes the resort has met the criteria for travel limitations to be enacted.

As a result of the Order, reservations for arrivals to Marriott's Desert Springs Villas prior to December 29, 2020will be canceled.

Due to the unprecedented situation surrounding COVID-19, please note the following for your canceled reservation:

Upon cancellation of your reservation, your Vacation Club Points will be returned to your Holding Account and can be used for a villa reservation or select Explorer Collection offerings within 120 days of arrival, instead of the previous 60 days of arrival.
For Vacation Club Points expiring anytime in 2020 or 2021 and placed into your Holding Account in connection with this canceled reservation, the expiration deadline will be extended through December 31, 2021. The December 31, 2021extension will be applied to the Vacation Club Points associated with this canceled reservation and placed into your Holding Account within two weeks.
For reservations that include a Resort Credit, the Resort Credit will also be canceled and the Vacation Club Points associated with the Resort Credit will be returned to your Holding Account and can be used in the same manner as the Vacation Club Points returned to your Holding Account in connection with this canceled reservation.
Please visit the Marriott Vacation Club® website for the most current information regarding the status of resorts.

If you are traveling to Marriott's Desert Springs Villas with respect to supporting "critical infrastructure" or as otherwise permitted by the Order, please call Owners Services to request a reinstatement of your reservation. Please note that Owners traveling to the resort will be required to complete an acknowledgment upon arrival to the resort certifying their stay will be in compliance with the Order.

We thank you for being part of the Marriott Vacation Club family and appreciate your understanding as we work with all Owners to navigate this unprecedented situation.


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## alchook (Dec 8, 2020)

Interesting. I have a reservation starting December 21 at Shadow Ridge and haven't gotten anything like that. I had asked about cancelling it earlier and was told that since the points I was using expire at the end of the year I would lose them.


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## davidvel (Dec 8, 2020)

sjsharkie said:


> Probably less risky. Even though the order could be lifted by Jan, probably a safer bet that Nevada does not impose a lock down.
> 
> Obviously TL is nicer and closer to gondola, but Stagecoach lift is likely less crowded and not too far from Ridge. It gets so packed at the gondola near TL - and its tough to socially distance down there. Up on the mountain I have less worries.
> 
> ...


Yes, actually Sacramento region, that contains Tahoe, has not yet shut down and ICU capacity is around 20%. TL could be open at the start of the year. But if it shuts down this week some time, the order stays in place at least 3 weeks, getting to the end of the year.

We decided to go with the more sure thing, versus nicer area and resort. Now, let it snow.


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## jpc763 (Dec 8, 2020)

alchook said:


> Interesting. I have a reservation starting December 21 at Shadow Ridge and haven't gotten anything like that. I had asked about cancelling it earlier and was told that since the points I was using expire at the end of the year I would lose them.


I just read on https://hub.vacationclub.com/properties/ that the golf course at Shadow Ridge is closed. So only thing open that I can see is the pools which is crazy to me given how little social distancing happens in the pool.


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## alchook (Dec 8, 2020)

jpc763 said:


> I just read on https://hub.vacationclub.com/properties/ that the golf course at Shadow Ridge is closed. So only thing open that I can see is the pools which is crazy to me given how little social distancing happens in the pool.


It seems the driving range and golf school are closed. The course is still taking tee times.


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## tatmtr7 (Dec 8, 2020)

I spent quite a bit of time today with them as I have reservations beginning December 26 and 27.  All,is canceled and they will deposit a week with II in place of my weeks .  The week has many restrictions so doubt how feasible it will be to use.  I just hope they don’t begin opening the resort on December 29 and rent out the villas that were to be occupied by owners or guests.  If they do then it is win situation for them as they recoup the $$$ and they charge high fees for the 2 bedroom villas.  
I understand everyone is feeling pain and that this is trivial compared to illness etc.  I just wish the week they deposit wouldn’t expire by the middle of next December and the guidelines are use only 120 days out. Hard to use when the vaccine probably won’t be available to all for quite awhile.


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## OlaWeybridge (Dec 8, 2020)

CA Richard said:


> We received this email from MVC last night regarding our upcoming reservation for December 13:
> 
> 
> *Dear Owners,*
> ...




I recieved this response today. We exchanged our Newport Coast week for this week through Interval. Here's the problem:
I don't understand under what legal terms Marriott can shut down their 3 palm desert timeshares but keep open their Marriott Desert Springs Hotel next door. If Marriott as an organization is making the decision that it's unsafe to run lodging or that it violates some new stay at home order, then it must shut down all of it's operations in California.  Please give me your thoughts. It sounds like a class action suit to me.


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## VacationForever (Dec 8, 2020)

OlaWeybridge said:


> I recieved this response today. We exchanged our Newport Coast week for this week through Interval. Here's the problem:
> I don't understand under what legal terms Marriott can shut down their 3 palm desert timeshares but keep open their Marriott Desert Springs Hotel next door. If Marriott as an organization is making the decision that it's unsafe to run lodging or that it violates some new stay at home order, then it must shut down all of it's operations in California.  Please give me your thoughts. It sounds like a class action suit to me.
> 
> View attachment 29729


It is not a Marriott problem.  The CA governor order indicates that if travel is for critical infrastructure, for instance travelling doctors and nurses, the hotels must keep the doors open for them.  They need a place to stay.


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## davidvel (Dec 8, 2020)

OlaWeybridge said:


> I recieved this response today. We exchanged our Newport Coast week for this week through Interval. Here's the problem:
> I don't understand under what legal terms Marriott can shut down their 3 palm desert timeshares but keep open their Marriott Desert Springs Hotel next door. If Marriott as an organization is making the decision that it's unsafe to run lodging or that it violates some new stay at home order, then it must shut down all of it's operations in California.  Please give me your thoughts. It sounds like a class action suit to me.
> 
> View attachment 29729


You don't reference anything to support that the hotel will remain open (to anyone other than essential infrastructure workers). Where are you getting this info?


----------



## SueDonJ (Dec 8, 2020)

OlaWeybridge said:


> I recieved this response today. We exchanged our Newport Coast week for this week through Interval. Here's the problem:
> I don't understand under what legal terms Marriott can shut down their 3 palm desert timeshares but keep open their Marriott Desert Springs Hotel next door. If Marriott as an organization is making the decision that it's unsafe to run lodging or that it violates some new stay at home order, then it must shut down all of it's operations in California.  Please give me your thoughts. It sounds like a class action suit to me.



Class action against which company? Marriott Vacations Worldwide, the timeshare company, and Marriott, Int'l., the hotel company, are two completely separate companies.

It may be that the hotel is also contacting guests to cancel non-essential stays but we'd have no way of knowing that unless someone on TUG is holding a hotel reservation.


----------



## BJRSanDiego (Dec 9, 2020)

tatmtr7 said:


> I spent quite a bit of time today with them as I have reservations beginning December 26 and 27.  All,is canceled and they will deposit a week with II in place of my weeks .  The week has many restrictions so doubt how feasible it will be to use.  I just hope they don’t begin opening the resort on December 29 and rent out the villas that were to be occupied by owners or guests.  If they do then it is win situation for them as they recoup the $$$ and they charge high fees for the 2 bedroom villas.
> I understand everyone is feeling pain and that this is trivial compared to illness etc.  I just wish the week they deposit wouldn’t expire by the middle of next December and the guidelines are use only 120 days out. Hard to use when the vaccine probably won’t be available to all for quite awhile.


I have received a Marriott replacement week and they seem to trade pretty well and maintain Marriott priority.  The ones that I've received were good for around 1 year or a bit more.


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## oneohana (Dec 9, 2020)

davidvel said:


> Yes, actually Sacramento region, that contains Tahoe, has not yet shut down and ICU capacity is around 20%. TL could be open at the start of the year. But if it shuts down this week some time, the order stays in place at least 3 weeks, getting to the end of the year.
> 
> We decided to go with the more sure thing, versus nicer area and resort. Now, let it snow.



Sacramento Region is down to 18.8% ICU availability. Checking in on 12/12 at TL hopefully they can hold out til then.


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## Big Matt (Dec 9, 2020)

SueDonJ said:


> Class action against which company? Marriott Vacations Worldwide, the timeshare company, and Marriott, Int'l., the hotel company, are two completely separate companies.
> 
> It may be that the hotel is also contacting guests to cancel non-essential stays but we'd have no way of knowing that unless someone on TUG is holding a hotel reservation.


I have a question based on an assumption that I've had for a long time (that may be incorrect).  I always thought that the sales people were all employees or contractors of MVW, but the hotel management folks are with Marriott International.  Is this right or wrong?  

Either way, a class action lawsuit in a pandemic is in bad taste IMO.


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## Jwerking (Dec 9, 2020)

Been following this discussion as we had two II exchanges booked in Palm Desert for last two weeks in January as part of a cross country road trip along with 2 weeks in Sedona and 2 wks in Lake Havasu booked via real cheap RCI extra vacation weeks.  

Now, clearly confirmed that the Marriott Desert Palm resorts will be closed thru Dec and will continue until Covid ICU improve.  We pulled the plug and decided to cancel our trip out West.  Thank goodness for free Marriott retrades, I was able to rebook the II exchanges to two Ocean Pointe in West Palm Beach.  Glad I woke up early this morning at 6:30 EST and found a number of Marriott weeks available for January.  Was able to keep retrading until I got consecutive weeks - yahoo!  Small consolation after canceling our original exchanges to the Marriott Waiohai for our annual 2 month winter trip to HI.

This has certainly been a memorable year for timeshare travel.  Good luck to everyone else for rearranging their CA Reservations.


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## gln60 (Dec 9, 2020)

Jwerking said:


> Been following this discussion as we had two II exchanges booked in Palm Desert for last two weeks in January as part of a cross country road trip along with 2 weeks in Sedona and 2 wks in Lake Havasu booked via real cheap RCI extra vacation weeks.
> 
> Now, clearly confirmed that the Marriott Desert Palm resorts will be closed thru Dec and will continue until Covid ICU improve.  We pulled the plug and decided to cancel our trip out West.  Thank goodness for free Marriott retrades, I was able to rebook the II exchanges to two Ocean Pointe in West Palm Beach.  Glad I woke up early this morning at 6:30 EST and found a number of Marriott weeks available for January.  Was able to keep retrading until I got consecutive weeks - yahoo!  Small consolation after canceling our original exchanges to the Marriott Waiohai for our annual 2 month winter trip to HI.
> 
> This has certainly been a memorable year for timeshare travel.  Good luck to everyone else for rearranging their CA Reservations.


Smart move.....Florida is a great place to be the next couple of months..great beaches..fabulous weather...very nice Marriots on the beach and No Chance of any last minute lock downs like in California..we will be headed down to Beach Place Towers in Fort Lauderdale for 2 weeks in mid January...our annual trip to celebrate my wifes birthday...enjoy your trip


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## dougp26364 (Dec 9, 2020)

davidvel said:


> You're quoting a post of mine from almost a month ago, November 14.
> 
> You state some things, but don't really make a point.
> 
> ...



if it were strictly science, we wouldn’t be in as bad of a position as we find ourselves. But since politicians are elected officials they need to do what they think looks best in the eyes of the voters


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## dougp26364 (Dec 9, 2020)

Jwerking said:


> Been following this discussion as we had two II exchanges booked in Palm Desert for last two weeks in January as part of a cross country road trip along with 2 weeks in Sedona and 2 wks in Lake Havasu booked via real cheap RCI extra vacation weeks.
> 
> Now, clearly confirmed that the Marriott Desert Palm resorts will be closed thru Dec and will continue until Covid ICU improve.  We pulled the plug and decided to cancel our trip out West.  Thank goodness for free Marriott retrades, I was able to rebook the II exchanges to two Ocean Pointe in West Palm Beach.  Glad I woke up early this morning at 6:30 EST and found a number of Marriott weeks available for January.  Was able to keep retrading until I got consecutive weeks - yahoo!  Small consolation after canceling our original exchanges to the Marriott Waiohai for our annual 2 month winter trip to HI.
> 
> This has certainly been a memorable year for timeshare travel.  Good luck to everyone else for rearranging their CA Reservations.



my view right now from Ocean Pointe.


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## SueDonJ (Dec 9, 2020)

Big Matt said:


> I have a question based on an assumption that I've had for a long time (that may be incorrect).  I always thought that the sales people were all employees or contractors of MVW, but the hotel management folks are with Marriott International.  Is this right or wrong?
> 
> Either way, a class action lawsuit in a pandemic is in bad taste IMO.



I think at this point all of the personnel working onsite at the timeshare properties are employees/contracted by MVW, except for employees at any of the facilities that lease onsite space (such as the spa onsite at Barony Beach Club.) Offsite there may still be some crossover in the IT systems if MVW is still using segments of the MI reservation system but I don't remember when they last provided an update on when/if that will change.

The hotel properties aren't owned by MI but instead pay licensing fees to put the Marriott name on their doors. I think personnel at each individual hotel are a mix of employees from MI and employees/contractors of the company that owns the property, but at each MI requires that the owners fill certain front-facing positions with MI employees.

About a possible class action no matter which companies are involved, I think that when the timeshare docs explicitly state that MVW has the right to restrict occupancy based on state/local mandates during one-off events out of their control - and no obligation to compensate owners/guests for such losses - it's a waste of time and money to challenge them.


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## jancurious (Dec 9, 2020)

oneohana said:


> Sacramento Region is down to 18.8% ICU availability. Checking in on 12/12 at TL hopefully they can hold out til then.



I live in the Sacramento Region and listened to Dr. Mark Ghaly's (our California HHS Secretary) update yesterday.  He projects the Sacramento region will fall below 15% by the end of this week.  Once a region falls they have 48 hours to initiate compliance.  You may just make it!


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## bogey21 (Dec 9, 2020)

[Political - deleted]


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## rthib (Dec 9, 2020)

SueDonJ said:


> About a possible class action no matter which companies are involved, I think that when the timeshare docs explicitly state that MVW has the right to restrict occupancy based on state/local mandates during one-off events out of their control - and no obligation to compensate owners/guests for such losses - it's a waste of time and money to challenge them.


The other thing to remember is companies and especially time share companies do not pay for lawsuits their customers do.
A class action suit is just suing yourself. Any award will just be added to maintenance fees, along with lawyer expense.

Will be interesting to see if the Judges ruling on LA Counties Outdoor Dining rule will have any impact on how counties react.








						L.A. restaurants win court battle over closures; judge says county didn’t prove danger to public
					

Los Angeles County’s health director acted “arbitrarily” and didn’t prove the danger to the public when she banned outdoor dining at restaurants as coronavirus cases surged last month, …




					ktla.com
				




And I assume that with one win, they might challenge the state ban. Doubt anything will impact Dec but might put some limits on next order if there is some concern of losing in court.


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## jancurious (Dec 9, 2020)

Sacramento Region just fell below 15%.  Regional-stay-at-home order effective 11:59 p.m. Thursday.  This will impact Timber Lodge which is in our region.


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## davidvel (Dec 9, 2020)

jancurious said:


> Sacramento Region just fell below 15%.  Regional-stay-at-home order effective 11:59 p.m. Thursday.  This will impact Timber Lodge which is in our region.


So it will run through 12/31, and continue unless the region is projected to be above 15% as of that date (or 1/4/21 due to the holiday.)


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## tahoe (Dec 9, 2020)

FYI - Those expecting to go to Timber Lodge or Grand Residence for Christmas may need to double check their plans.



			https://www.edcgov.us/Government/hhsa/PublishingImages/pages/EDCCOVID-19-News/PR%2020-68%20Regional%20Stay%20At%20Home%20Order%20Statement%2012-9-20.pdf
		




> While it happened sooner than anticipated, the Greater Sacramento Region, of which El Dorado County is a part, dipped below the 15 percent of available staffed ICU beds which triggered the new Stay At Home Order and will become effective at 11:59 pm Thursday for a minimum of three weeks.
> We have been in close contact with our two County hospitals, Marshall Medical in Placerville and Barton Health in South Lake Tahoe, to ensure we are aware of the status of our health care provider system.


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## OlaWeybridge (Dec 10, 2020)

davidvel said:


> You don't reference anything to support that the hotel will remain open (to anyone other than essential infrastructure workers). Where are you getting this info?


I've called the hotel and they are remaining open. Anyone can book there. In fact, I checked on rates and they were ready to book my stay there right now. They are not limiting reservations to essential workers.


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## davidvel (Dec 10, 2020)

OlaWeybridge said:


> I've called the hotel and they are remaining open. Anyone can book there. In fact, I checked on rates and they were ready to book my stay there right now. They are not limiting reservations to essential workers.


Sounds like they are following the order correctly, unlike MVC.


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## OlaWeybridge (Dec 10, 2020)

SueDonJ said:


> Class action against which company? Marriott Vacations Worldwide, the timeshare company, and Marriott, Int'l., the hotel company, are two completely separate companies.
> 
> It may be that the hotel is also contacting guests to cancel non-essential stays but we'd have no way of knowing that unless someone on TUG is holding a hotel reservation.


Thanks, Susan. The hotel is not canceling any reservations and are accepting new reservations regardless of whether one is an essential worker or not.


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## zentraveler (Dec 10, 2020)

dougp26364 said:


> if it were strictly science, we wouldn’t be in as bad of a position as we find ourselves. But since politicians are elected officials they need to do what they think looks best in the eyes of the voters



A very smart person said recently (of the pandemic) "when you mix science and politics you get .... politics".


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## zentraveler (Dec 10, 2020)

davidvel said:


> So it will run through 12/31, and continue unless the region is projected to be above 15% as of that date (or 1/4/21 due to the holiday.)



I would say odds of ICU capacity going up in the near future about zero.


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## Norcal5 (Dec 10, 2020)

Does this affect travel out of California to Hawaii?


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## sparty (Dec 10, 2020)

Has anyone had II reservations actually canceled? My DSV reservations are still showing as confirmed in both II and marriott.com


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## zentraveler (Dec 10, 2020)

sparty said:


> Has anyone had II reservations actually canceled? My DSV reservations are still showing as confirmed in both II and marriott.com



Westin Mission Hills told us they had "cancelled" our reservation and would not let us check in, but II still showed the reservation. I had to ask II to cancel it so they could issue a replacement.  

This is all quite the mess with the short notice and ambiguous wording of the order.


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## Quiet Pine (Dec 11, 2020)

sparty said:


> Has anyone had II reservations actually canceled? My DSV reservations are still showing as confirmed...


Late Monday, an email from Marriott canceled my DSV II reservation Dec. 25-Jan. 1.  I talked to II today and I'm not happy about the choices. I can take a replacement week but must travel by Feb. 2021. OR I can get an Accom. Cert that must be used by Dec. 2021. She acknowledged that ACs usually don't have the best choices. I paid for the week so I don't want to shrug and let it go. Probably would be better options if I weren't going through II.


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## sparty (Dec 11, 2020)

I read my purchase protection agreement on my AmEx Delta Platinum card and I didn't see anything that says my Getaway which I placed on the card wouldn't be covered.  I am going to contact them and try to put in a claim.


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## Garnet (Dec 14, 2020)

I had rented Newport Coast and Shadow Ridge for the end of the year.  Both resorts are closed-I have issued refunds to my renters.  But-Marriott has given me mixed messages about the weeks.  They email me telling me to call II about depositing weeks.  They also email me telling me that in the next 45 days I will see an exchange week in my account.  I haven't seen anything.  Wait times to get to a rep at II have been so long I haven't been able to wait. Comments?  Luck on getting through?  Exchanges appearing in II accounts?

Also, we were exchanged (Marriott to Marriott) into NCV and I'm told that was canceled from the resort.  I still don't see it anything in our II account. I've been looking last several days. Folks having similar issues?  Anyone have excnahges/re-exchanges appear?  Solutions? Or, am I out of luck?

Really-I hope this thread to be about solutions-figuring our logistics and not gripping about COVID/restrictions/where you were planning on going.  Just logistics from here moving forward.


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## SueDonJ (Dec 15, 2020)

Garnet said:


> I had rented Newport Coast and Shadow Ridge for the end of the year.  Both resorts are closed-I have issued refunds to my renters.  But-Marriott has given me mixed messages about the weeks.  They email me telling me to call II about depositing weeks.  They also email me telling me that in the next 45 days I will see an exchange week in my account.  I haven't seen anything.  Wait times to get to a rep at II have been so long I haven't been able to wait. Comments?  Luck on getting through?  Exchanges appearing in II accounts?
> 
> Also, we were exchanged (Marriott to Marriott) into NCV and I'm told that was canceled from the resort.  I still don't see it anything in our II account. I've been looking last several days. Folks having similar issues?  Anyone have excnahges/re-exchanges appear?  Solutions? Or, am I out of luck?
> 
> Really-I hope this thread to be about solutions-figuring our logistics and not gripping about COVID/restrictions/where you were planning on going.  Just logistics from here moving forward.



I merged your post into an ongoing thread that's already dealing with the logistics of COVID-cancelled reservations in CA. Though there is some griping about the restrictions, there are also quite a few posts from people asking/answering the same questions you have.


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