# Need help with London trip



## DaveNV (Dec 5, 2021)

We're giving strong thought to making a trip to London, and seeing a bit of the country.  I realize it's a big place, with a huge amount of history. We're interested in seeing the "name" sites, but also to try and experience some of the local culture and ambience.  How do we even begin to figure out a trip like this?  Are there timeshares located in reasonable areas to make it worthwhile, or are they too remote?  Is a hotel stay a better option? Are there threads on Tug, or websites elsewhere that talk about visiting England for a newbie? Not interested in a hostel kind of thing, nor do we need five-star accommodations.   I think we just need a little push in the right direction.  Thanks!

Dave


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## DeniseM (Dec 5, 2021)

Dave - I am no expert, but I found this tour company to be very helpful for excellent and inexpensive guided walks: https://www.walks.com

A lot of the walks are in London, and you just take the Tube to your meeting place, meet your group & guide at the Tube station, and begin your walking tour. Some are out of town - we did Stonehenge and a couple of others, and you meet your group at the train station in London, take the train to your destination, and they provide a chartered bus to take you around the destination, along with guided walks.

We did one of their tours nearly every day - since you are traveling on the Tube on the London tours, if you found something really interesting, you could just stay longer and spend more time there at the end of the guided tour.


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## DaveNV (Dec 5, 2021)

DeniseM said:


> Dave - I am no expert, but I found this tour company to be very helpful for excellent and inexpensive guided walks: https://www.walks.com
> 
> A lot of the walks are in London, and you just take the Tube to your meeting place, meet your group & guide at the Tube station, and begin your walking tour. Some are out of town - we did Stonehenge and a couple of others, and you meet your group at the train station in London, take the train to your destination, and they provide a chartered bus to take you around the destination, along with guided walks.



Thank you! This is very helpful, and sounds like the way we'd want to experience things.  How did you approach accommodations? 

Dave


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## DeniseM (Dec 5, 2021)

Both times I rented from a private condo owner. One was good, because it was a full-time vacation rental, but the other was someone's personal home with all their stuff in it, and that was awkward.  In the future, I would compare the price of a hotel vs a vacation condo.  Let me ask my daughter what their big rental website is there - I don't remember.


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## Luanne (Dec 5, 2021)

@DaveNV  Steve and I did a trip to London a few years back.  It was in conjunction with him receiving his Master's from the University of Liverpool.  We stayed in London for most of the trip, took the train to Liverpool, spent the night, took a Beatles tours sponsored by the school, went to his graduation ceremony and took the train back to London the next day.  We didn't do any formal tours of any kind.  We spent the time we had in London, used the hop on hop off bus a few times, walked, took the tube and just enjoyed ourselves.  The most touristy thing we did was the London Eye.  We also visited the British Museum and the Albert and Victoria museum.  We stayed in a bed and breakfast that was close to the British Museum and also to the train station we needed for our trip to Liverpool.


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## DeniseM (Dec 5, 2021)

My daughter doesn't remember the site we used before, but suggested VRBO London: 








						London, GB Vacation Rentals: house rentals & more | Vrbo
					

Explore an array of London, GB vacation rentals, including houses, apartment and condo rentals & more bookable online. Choose from more than 9,000 properties, ideal house rentals for families, groups and couples. Rent a whole home for your next weekend or holiday.




					www.vrbo.com


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## CalGalTraveler (Dec 5, 2021)

We usually stay in a hotel in London using hotel points or certificates. I want to try the HGVC Scotland properties on a future trip.


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## Passepartout (Dec 5, 2021)

Dave, we stayed in London a few days pre- a T/A cruise from Southampton. We hotel'ed it near Buckingham Palace, across from the Royal Muse (where the royal carriages and limo's live) a traditional neighborhood pub a half block away, easy distance to Victoria & Albert Museum, bus terminal & Tube. I'll ask Paula to send you details if you wish.

She reminds me that it was also near a hop-on-hop-off bus stop (Buckingham) that we were able to use to get to the Tower, the Wheel, Westminster Abbey and other sites we wanted to see without learning the Tube.


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## DaveNV (Dec 5, 2021)

Thanks to all of you! This kind of thing is really helpful.

Dave


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## geist1223 (Dec 5, 2021)

Timeshares tend not to be where you want in Great Britain. I would suggest you look up B&B'S if you are staying an area for only a day or two. For longer stays you want to look up self-catering Cottages. On the National Tourist Site there should be a link for both.

We have stayed in self-catering cottages both in Ireland (Portmagee) and Scotland (Inverness). Before Patti and I met she and her Girlfriends traveled all,over Scotland, England, and Ireland in B&B's.


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## Limace (Dec 5, 2021)

Rick Steves is my favorite for European travel-I’d order his guide to Great Britain then go spend some time on his forums-folks are very helpful there. https://community.ricksteves.com/travel-forum/england


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## clifffaith (Dec 5, 2021)

I can highly recommend Rick Steves’s website ricksteves.com . We follow his tips, buy his books and participate on his forums every time we go to Europe. Used the info multiple times for London and Paris.


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## clifffaith (Dec 5, 2021)

Limace said:


> Rick Steves is my favorite for European travel-I’d order his guide to Great Britain then go spend some time on his forums-folks are very helpful there. https://community.ricksteves.com/travel-forum/england
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



Jinx, coke!


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## stmartinfan (Dec 5, 2021)

For London, we've used an apartment rental service called Ivy Lettings.  We were usually traveling with our 2 daughters, so we got more space, a kitchen and 2 bedrooms for about the same as a 2 rooms in a nice hotel   I know VRBO and other services have lots of choices, but for overseas rentals, we've preferred working via a rental agency that's been in business for a while and has vetted the places they list.  We also know they will be available if there's a problem, vs. the individual renting an apartment directly.  We look for a place within a couple of blocks of a Tube stop and in a neighborhood with grocery stores and restaurants.  After staying in timeshares, we really like having the space to relax and eat some meals in, beyond just a hotel room.

In advance of a trip like this, I usually review the Rick Steves book, because he does a good overview of the top sites in an area.  Then I'll read through Frommers or Fodor, because they go much deeper and may have other sights that appeal to our personal interests, like a toy museum near our apartment when our kits were younger.  

There's so much to do in London and surrounding areas, it really depends on your personal interests.  We loved the London Eye, British Museum, Churchill War Rooms, Westminster Abbey, Tower of London, visiting some of the market areas like Burough Market, checking out the food displays in Harrods, and just walking around some of the different neighborhoods.  We usually like to do 1 or 2 major sites in a day, then use the rest of the time to just take in the local color around the area.  If you want to venture out from London, Bath is an interesting city and would also give you a chance to see Stonehenge.  

I've always found the research and planning to be part of the fun of taking a trip somewhere new!


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## stmartinfan (Dec 5, 2021)

Looks like 3 votes for starting with Rick Steves.  I also endorse the idea of doing one of the hop on/hop off bus tours on the first day in a new city,  You get a great overview of the city layout, it’s architecture and major sites plus a quick summary from the guide.  In London, it's easier to travel to destinations you want to spend time at by Tube, so you can miss out on seeing the broader city style that you get on the bus tour,


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## Luanne (Dec 5, 2021)

Oh yes, we did the Tower of London and Harrods as well.  Would have liked to have seen the inside of Buckingham Palace, but on the day we were in that area the Queen was having tea with 300 or so of her closest friends.  It was fun seeing them all lined up outside the palace. The women in their hats and the men all dressed up, some in kilts.


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## justnosy (Dec 5, 2021)

DeniseM said:


> Dave - I am no expert, but I found this tour company to be very helpful for excellent and inexpensive guided walks: https://www.walks.com
> 
> A lot of the walks are in London, and you just take the Tube to your meeting place, meet your group & guide at the Tube station, and begin your walking tour. Some are out of town - we did Stonehenge and a couple of others, and you meet your group at the train station in London, take the train to your destination, and they provide a chartered bus to take you around the destination, along with guided walks.
> 
> We did one of their tours nearly every day - since you are traveling on the Tube on the London tours, if you found something really interesting, you could just stay longer and spend more time there at the end of the guided tour.



 We (family) used the above-mentioned tour company!!! We're a family of 5 and I splurged by booking a place through Marriott Home & Villas. The place we got was a 3 bedroom apartment in the Pimlico (?) area. We were in London and came back just as the world shut down (March 2020). We did a lot of things we wanted but the last two days most of London was shut down and I spent about 3 hours on my phone - mostly waiting for a rep - to re-schedule our flight back home (because of course our flight was cancelled - not the ones before and after ours!) Take the British Museum walk to get the highlights. That place is HUGE and overwhelming! We booked a Stonehenge/Bath tour using a Groupon. It was our first time in London. I did the planning by using Google (things to do in London, must do things in london, what to eat in london, etc. ) and then following links and also searching other travel forums. Of course I also got input from my kids of what they wanted to do/eat.


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## SmithOp (Dec 5, 2021)

We rented a flat through Homeaway, which is VRBO, in the Southwark / Bermondsey area, just southeast of Tower Bridge. It was very easy to get around usind the double decker busses, and a great way to see sights, we got Oyster Card before leaving.

Its very easy to do day trips from London, the train system hub, with various lines branching out like spokes on a wheel. We went out to Hampton Court with a stop at Wmbledon, and a day trip to Bath.

You can find a lot of information on visit britain dot com.


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## ScoopKona (Dec 5, 2021)

I've been traveling to the UK regularly since I was 9-years old. Usually once every other year. I have more close friends in the UK than I do in the US.

Here's the skinny:

1) You can't see London in one trip. Not even just the big-name attractions. Can't be done. Don't even try. London is big, chock full of history, and chock full of tourists -- all year long. 

2) London is expensive. Roughly double the price of the rest of the UK. 

3) Unless you're a checklist traveler, the best bet is to visit London with some sort of cultural agenda. I schedule trips around rock concerts at the Albert Hall. I'll go see Mark Knopfler or Roger Hodgson. And then do a few other things before getting out of London for someplace which isn't so hard on my credit card.

4) I've never had a bad meal in the whole of the UK. But I also stick with the dishes they're good at -- curries, fried fish, savory meat pies, full breakfast and similar. I've also never had a bad pint -- because I stick mostly with CAMRA pubs and drink local. My four favorite pubs are the Gypsy Moth, Ye Olde Cheshire Cheese, The Porcupine, and Brew Dog (which is near the Porcupine). But I'll pop into any place with Doom Bar or Fuller's on draught.

5) It is worth the bad weather to avoid the UK in the summer. I dislike hordes of tourists more than rain. So I tend to visit any time besides summer. My favorite trips to the UK are in Winter. You never really "have the place to yourself." But you can at least enjoy things on your time without being surrounded by selfie-happy tour groups. That's worth a few rain days. The pubs are more comfortable, anyway, when the weather is best described as "woolly."

6) Learn the Tube. And the hop-on hop-off bus is FAR less expensive than cabs/uber. Most of the sights tend to be clustered in spots around the City. So you can hop off and see them. And then hop to another section. If traffic is bad, just take the Underground.


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## nerodog (Dec 5, 2021)

DaveNV said:


> Thank you! This is very helpful, and sounds like the way we'd want to experience things.  How did you approach accommodations?
> 
> Dave


Do you like bed and breakfasts ?  England is famous for the English breakfast and uts a great way to meet local people. I would base myself in London for 5 days at a central locale. I like the Victoria  Station area as it's walkable to alot of sights and you can get a tube oyster card.  The train station is right there to perhaps hop out to the countryside. If you aren't afraid of driving I'd recommend driving to the Cotswold  area and up thru the Lake district .  In the southern parts of England  you have beautiful  Canterbury,  Rye, all available  by train and then you can visit Cambridge  or Oxford.  I'd get an itinerary  of where you want to go,  how many days and figure out your transportation.  Then you can find central bed and breakfasts!  CIE also offers escorted  tours.


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## clifffaith (Dec 5, 2021)

One of our favorite small museums is in London — the Sir John Soane’s Museum. As someone who loves cluttered decor, this home is awesome! Soane was an architect and collector and crammed his home full of his finds, as well as numerous Hogarth, Turner and Canaletto paintings. He donated his home as a museum with the understanding it would be left as he had it in the early 1800s. It is truly fabulous!


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## nerodog (Dec 5, 2021)

clifffaith said:


> One of our favorite small museums is in London — the Sir John Soane’s Museum. As someone who loves cluttered decor, this home is awesome! Soane was an architect and collector and crammed his home full of his finds, as well as numerous Hogarth, Turner and Canaletto paintings. He donated his home as a museum with the understanding it would be left as he had it in the early 1800s. It is truly fabulous!


Courtald Galleries were also great. Live the Tate too and Victoria  and Albert. So much in London and let's not forget the theatre !! Big red bus is a good way to get around hop on and off.


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## DaveNV (Dec 5, 2021)

Excellent ideas.  Thanks everyone!

Dave


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## Luanne (Dec 5, 2021)

We have what Steve calls a "Monty Python" story about the hop on hop off bus.  We arrived VERY early into London.  We were able to get to the B&B, leave our bags there, and even have breakfast (a wonderful full English breakfast).  Then we headed off for the hop on hop off bus, with the closest stop being at the British Museum.  We opted not to hop off as we were pretty tired and just wanted to get the lay of the land.  What amused me is that is seemed we kept coming back to Trafalgar Square.  We must have seen it from every angle possible.  We did finally hop off to get some lunch.  Once we'd eaten we headed back to the stop where we'd gotten off to head back to the B&B.  We were told at that stop that the bus didn't go to the British Museum and were pointed down the street to where another stop was.  Walked down there, and were told that wasn't where the bus to the British Museum was, and were sent back to the stop we'd just left.  As we're waiting at the original stop the bus that is there suddenly announces "This bus doesn't go to Harrod's".  At this point we don't really care where the bus goes, we figure at some point we'll get where we need to go.  So we board.  And guess where the first stop is........................yep, the British Museum.


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## Jodyv (Dec 5, 2021)

Visiting London was one of my favorite trips ever.  I stayed at an Airbnb.  It was a little attic room and a little far from the action, but close to Notting Hill.  I took a walking tour booked also on Airbnb.  The tour guide was a college professor and fun.  (and it was CHEAP......maybe 15.00 or so......)  I took a day trip to Windsor Castle and Stonehenge I found on Get Your Guide. (was REALLY cool......)  I did a couple of London Walks (There is a website called London Walks that gives you a calendar of their walks.)  One was touring the downtown area and included St Paul's Cathedral, and the British Museum where I saw Cleopatra's mummy!  One was on Nov. 11, also a special war remembrance day there, and our guide positioned us to see the Royal Family as they returned to the castle after the ceremonies. We saw the queen!   I saw four or five Broadway plays including Hamilton (when a ticket to Hamilton in Los Angeles was $200.00 and my London ticket was 65.00.....). I got lots of ideas from Rick Steves.  I usually buy a book of his and tear out the pages as I go....He's a really valuable resource!  His website, and his books, give itinerary ideas including how important he feels a certain site would be.  His suggestions have worked well for me. It was an action-packed week.....but so much fun!!!


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## Glynda (Dec 5, 2021)

We have spent 3 to 10 days in London 12 times over the years; in cruddy B&B's when we were young and poor; now renting flats or staying in hotels. Sadly, times have changed and lots of planning is needed as one can no longer be spontaneous when it comes to touring those "named sights." Timed tickets must be purchased often months in advance if you are going at a popular time of year.


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## stmartinfan (Dec 6, 2021)

If you enjoy theater, it's definitely worth it to do a show or two.  We buy the discount tickets:








						TKTS London - Last Minute Theatre Tickets | OLT
					

TKTS London is the number one place for London theatre deals. Get the best last minute theatre deals for London's West End at the TKTS booth.




					officiallondontheatre.com
				



The London theaters are very small, so most seats are fine, and we're flexible to try what ever's available. We even saw Jersey Boys one time…probably an odd choice in London but it was a great production.


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## beejaybeeohio (Dec 6, 2021)

Reading this thread has me wanting to return to London as part of our 2023 late summer trip to Europe!
Thanks to Rick Steves, we procured tickets to the Ceremony of the Keys at the Tower of London on our first visit to that city. It was a highlight. 
I echo those who've suggested a HoHo bus tour on arrival. Since most flights from the US arrive well before time to check into lodging, doing a loop or two before disembarking the bus is a great way to recover from jet lag. We also booked a pub crawl walk where DH learned to love his porter at temperatures much warmer than beer is served here. On our second visit we went to the theatre to see "Love Never Dies" the Phantom sequel and took a day trip on our own to Hampton Court, participating in the wedding reception of Henry VIII and Katharine Parr!


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## Ken555 (Dec 6, 2021)

CalGalTraveler said:


> We usually stay in a hotel in London using hotel points or certificates. I want to try the HGVC Scotland properties on a future trip.



I’m currently scheduled to visit two of the Scotland HGVCs next year, and looking forward to it!


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## Ken555 (Dec 6, 2021)

I’ve been to London and the UK a number of times, and actually just finished planning next years trip there a week ago. 

London is great, and I try to visit at least two new places each time I’m there (or more, time permitting). The museums are excellent, the used book stores equally so, historic landmarks curious, and the city is extremely easy to get around (pandemic concerns aside). 

Whenever I think of London these days, I get excited knowing that I’ll go to my favorite Indian restaurants and perhaps find new ones. Indian food in London is superb - my favorites are Verraswamy and Amaya (both Michelin star restaurants - fwiw, lunch is less expensive and excellent). 

I’ve also done several driving trips in the UK, and though I don’t recommend that for your first visit you should keep it in mind for the future. I’ve truly enjoyed seeing more of the UK outside the cities, randomly stopping at historic sites, seeing the beautiful countryside, etc. To date, my favorite is Wales, and will be returning there next year for a few more days en route to Scotland from Southampton (this trip is after arriving via a transatlantic cruise).

So many things to do in London and the UK. Perhaps if you told us what you prefer (history, culture, food, etc) we can better advise something which you might find of particular interest.


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## DaveNV (Dec 6, 2021)

Ken555 said:


> So many things to do in London and the UK. Perhaps if you told us what you prefer (history, culture, food, etc) we can better advise something which you might find of particular interest.



See, that's exactly the problem - we like doing a bit of everything.  I know it can't all be seen in one trip.  But I also don't want to land in some hotel, wander around town, and then leave, only to discover some fantastic thing we didn't know about was right around the corner.  Just seeing the city of London itself won't be enough, so we'll want to see some of the countryside, too. History and culture are quite high on the list. Jeff is a fanatic about the Royal Family, and all things related to the governing history of Great Britain, the Monarchy, Castles and current residences, "seeing the Queen."  Museums. Galleries. Architecture. Landmarks. Theater.  Great Food and casual takeaway from a wide variety of cultures. Classic Pubs, where we can rub elbows with interesting people. Photographic opportunities of every possible variety. Stonehenge, even though I know it's fenced off from quite a ways back.  The list just never stops.  It's nothing in particular, and everything in general.  We both have spent our lives observing English culture and events from a distance.  We'd like to immerse ourselves in the experience in person.

And in our spare time (Yeah, right!) I'd like to know if there is any sort of genealogical library there, where I might be able to find some family history.  My roots are about 95% English and Scottish, with a dash of Irish thrown in. My family tree is quite deep in England, going back to pre-America days, to where my 17th (I think it was) Great Grandfather was Lord Mayor of London in the 1530s. His descendants left England for Holland due to religious persecution, and a few generations later came to America in the 1640s, just in time to get involved with the founding of America. I'd love to try and find out more about that.

Those of you who have visited London enough to have favorite places and things are only whetting the appetite. Some great comments in this thread, and I sincerely appreciate the suggestions.  Thanks!

Dave


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## elaine (Dec 6, 2021)

One option is to pop over to Salisbury, a very quaint medieval town. You can easily get there via train, from there take the tourist bus (a few miles) out to Stonehenge, see Salisbury cathedral, and spend the night there, dining at a pub, etc.  That, IMHO, would give you a nice "out of London" experience and also hit 2 bucket list places. You can also triangulate and go to Bath for another stopover and then return to London. We also did a walk (Harry Potter with our teens) and enjoyed it very much! There are a couple double deck city buses that essentially do the tour bus routes. Rick Steves has lots of info.


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## DaveNV (Dec 6, 2021)

elaine said:


> One option is to pop over to Salisbury, a very quaint medieval town. You can easily get there via train, from there take the tourist bus (a few miles) out to Stonehenge, see Salisbury cathedral, and spend the night there, dining at a pub, etc.  That, IMHO, would give you a nice "out of London" experience and also hit 2 bucket list places. You can also triangulate and go to Bath for another stopover and then return to London. We also did a walk (Harry Potter with our teens) and enjoyed it very much! There are a couple double deck city buses that essentially do the tour bus routes. Rick Steves has lots of info.



I like this idea quite a bit. Thank you!  As you say, it ticks several boxes.  Of course, now I'm sure I'll want to spend another trip just touring the country outside of the city.  See, it never ends.  

Dave


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## "Roger" (Dec 6, 2021)

I've been reluctant to participate in this thread because I am not a big city fan. Given your (DaveNV) most recent post ,however, I will throw in two comments, one about London and one about outside of London.

The one thing I would most recommend in London is visiting the Churchill War Rooms. They are an underground complex of rooms where Churchill spent many days and nights during the war - underground to protect him and the strategic planning headquarters from being wiped out by a bomb. They were closed up immediately after the war and only reopened maybe ten years ago. Everything is just as it was when Churchill was there managing the war effort including a strategic map room, separate bed rooms for him and his wife, etc.  They are located right near Parliament so you can walk from there to see most of the biggie London sites. If interested, go online somewhat in advance of your trip and get tickets. They are timed entry to avoid overcrowding so they should be purchased in advance.

I am a big fan of travelling all over England outside of London. The one must, as far as I am concerned, is joining the National Trust. They have historic sites all over England, many of which have cafes and restaurants featuring the sort of food that would have been served at the site you are visiting. The cafes and restaurants are clean and good toilets are available. When you tour one of their old (or sometimes, not so old) mansions, castles, etc., docents are located in all the rooms. Don't be shy. Ask them a question (even if you don't have one). They are just waiting to open up and tell you everything they know. In one case, my wife and I asked a question, and after showing interest, the docent started opening up a cabinet that was suppose to remain shut, showing us the secret compartments, the whole nine yards.  

The mention of Stonehenge set off this thread. Just a bit further down the road is Stourhead, what is probably the premier National Trust site. It is an extensive property (acres surrounding a lake) with a number of buildings including a large manor house. You need at least a half a day to spend walking (and eating) there. If you remember the old Masterpiece Theater series, The Pallisers, Stourhead was the featured location. (A great many of the old period pieces are filmed at National Trust sites.)

To be honest, English countryside and London are probably separate trips. If you want to do London and just a shorter excursion into the countryside, Stonehenge and Stourhead is probably your best bet.


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## x3 skier (Dec 6, 2021)

I will note that London Walks walks.com do have day trips by train. That are on a fixed schedule so you need to be there on the right dates to travel to Cambridge (a great trip), Canterbury and others.

The biggest splurge I have repeatedly taken is a day trip on the British Pullman, the British portion of the Orient Express. Several destinations around the South of England. Belmond.com. Incudes a four course meal, the train ride in a vintage set of beautifully restored railroad carriages served by formally dressed waiters and waitresses and a guided tour at the destination. Again it runs on selected dates and you need to be there on the selected dates. Everyone on one of these journeys, I and my late wife, and later with a friend or my siblings have had a memorable experience.




Cheers


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## JudyH (Dec 6, 2021)

Plan on 2-3 weeks. Then go back in 6 months. Do that for a few years.


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## DaveNV (Dec 6, 2021)

JudyH said:


> Plan on 2-3 weeks. Then go back in 6 months. Do that for a few years.



I can only wish I could afford to do that.  

The other issue I'm facing is that when considering visiting London, then Paris is SO CLOSE.  And then Berlin, and all of Italy.  Oh wait - there's Greece just over there!  And on and on.  It never ends. 

Dave


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## Passepartout (Dec 6, 2021)

DaveNV said:


> I can only wish I could afford to do that.
> 
> The other issue I'm facing is that when considering visiting London, then Paris is SO CLOSE.  And then Berlin, and all of Italy.  Oh wait - there's Greece just over there!  And on and on.  It never ends.


Dave, ol' friend. Mission creep is NOT your friend. As for travel, do what you can, when you can. Trying to see/do it ALL is impossible. Look at the bits you can't get to as an excuse for another trip. Take it in bite-size pieces. You can NEVER see it all. Rick Steves, who has spent 6 weeks every year in Europe for decades, still sees new stuff every year. 

Really, going on the cheap, staying in BnB's and shopping elbow-to-elbow with little old ladies at the town market (to me) beats another museum, Parthenon, another church, a ruined castle. And it makes you truly appreciate the unique life you've led, and the world you've experienced. You've mentioned London. People have been living there for decades and haven't seen it all.

As I've said many, many times. The BEST part of a trip is the planning. It's NOT the actual trip- those are often a PITA with delayed flights or surly desk clerks or lousy weather. It's not the memories you'll have and gladly share here on TUG and elsewhere. Nope. It's the planning. The research, the watching the calendar tick down. Relish it. It's all good.

Jim


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## slip (Dec 6, 2021)

Passepartout said:


> Dave, ol' friend. Mission creep is NOT your friend. As for travel, do what you can, when you can. Trying to see/do it ALL is impossible. Look at the bits you can't get to as an excuse for another trip. Take it in bite-size pieces. You can NEVER see it all. Rick Steves, who has spent 6 weeks every year in Europe for decades, still sees new stuff every year.
> 
> Really, going on the cheap, staying in BnB's and shopping elbow-to-elbow with little old ladies at the town market (to me) beats another museum, Parthenon, another church, a ruined castle. And it makes you truly appreciate the unique life you've led, and the world you've experienced. You've mentioned London. People have been living there for decades and haven't seen it all.
> 
> ...



Yep, Dave, this is the same advice you have given many times here on TUG. It's tough only picking what you can really get done. It makes the planning tough.


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## DaveNV (Dec 6, 2021)

See, that's the issue.  "Another" museum implies I've already been to one, or more.  And some of these museums are a vacation in and of themselves.  When we went to New York we spent all day in the Museum of Natural History, and didn't scratch the surface.  I'd go back there just to see more of the place.

As to London and everything "Europe," I fully realize I can't see it all.  I agree with @slip telling me to follow my own advice. And I want to.  But it's so hard to think that if we bite the bullet and make the leap to vacation in England, we're going to want to add on just one more thing, one more day, one more something-or-other.  And then when we're done with that extra whatever-it-is, we'll be thinking, "But wait - I can still see there's something just over the horizon..."

All speculation, of course.  As long as there is a travel budget, there will be limits on where and what the travel is about.  And that's the hardest part - deciding where and when to go, and what to see when we get there.  With London, from what I'm reading here, it pays to buy advance tickets to certain events.  But without knowing the lay of the land, or how to get around, planning ahead for things like that is very difficult.

This is probably why I like visiting Hawaii so much.  On an island, especially the Outer Islands, you can only do so much. There are fewer roads, and less to be able to see and do.  It forces me to slow down and enjoy Island Time.  With someplace like London, with centuries of history waiting to be discovered, it's way beyond "kid in a candy store" level.  There is no end to the things we'd want to try and do and know that we can't do it all.  The goal will be to parse it down to what we can afford to do, if not financially, then at least with a limited amount of time.

I totally agree with you @Passepartout Jim and @slip Jeff.  The planning is the thing.  The problem there is deciding how to start the planning.

Maybe I need to download a map of London and start there. Distance takes time.  How best to get around, and then start calculating how many days we'll need to see those "must see" things.  Being a tourist can be fun.  But being a newbie in a place with so much to see and do kind of sucks.  LOL! 

Dave


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## artringwald (Dec 6, 2021)

Some of the Hop-on-Hop Off bus passes include a river cruise. We enjoyed going under all the famous bridges and seeing the building from the river.






						Big Bus Tours London | Hop On, Hop Off London Bus Tours
					

Our hop-on hop-off London bus tours offer the  perfect introduction to this majestic capital city. Save up to 20% online with Big Bus Tours




					www.bigbustours.com
				




We took the tube to the British Museum and that was the real highlight of our whole trip.


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## DeniseM (Dec 6, 2021)

Dave - I would begin by planning my sight seeing around London Walks - it's just so easy for a first time visitor, and they have a lot of options. And most important: It's not complicated.


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## louisianab (Dec 6, 2021)

We are *hopefully* going in March. I did find a cute hotel with full English breakfast called the Darlington, which is in Hyde Park and by several tube stations. I appreciate reading everyone's tips, even if it is not my thread.


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## DaveNV (Dec 6, 2021)

DeniseM said:


> Dave - I would begin by planning my sight seeing around London Walks - it's just so easy for a first time visitor, and they have a lot of options. And most important: It's not complicated.



There you go again - being the voice of reason. 

That's a really good suggestion.  I checked their website, and there are some good options there.  I just need to step back and decide what are the most important things to see on a first trip, and expect we'd want to do more than one trip there.  I'm kind of afraid if we open this Pandora's box of European travel, it will start us on a whole different vacation path.  

Now that I think about it - I've been to something like 45 states, some of them many, many times. So maybe opening a new pathway isn't such a bad idea at all.  

Dave


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## Glynda (Dec 6, 2021)

I would suggest going in early to mid- September. The weather is good and there are fewer tourists as kids are back in school. Later can be dreary, wet and cold. It's a great time to actually be allowed inside Buckingham Palace's State Rooms and Gardens but _you must_ plan ahead to get tickets. 2019 was the first time we've able to get in and it was fabulous!!!  They are only open 10 weeks out of the year. Buckingham Palace- Royal Trust 

Westminster Abbey is a place I visit every time I go, The Tower of London is a must at least once. Book for opening time and head straight to the crown jewels or you will be waiting in a long line later. 

We did a day trip from London out to Hever Castle by ourselves. It's the former childhood home of Anne Boleyn. We took a train from Victoria Station and got off at Hever Station, an unmanned station. We walked the mile to the castle. It can be done by walking the winding country road or cutting across the fields.Map Hever Station to Hever Castle  We've done the same type of day trips to Windsor Castle and to Hampton Court. 

Hubby really likes visiting the Imperial War Museum. That's the day we split up and I shop Selfridges and Oxford Street.

Another of our favorites was an East End London Street Art walking tour. So interesting and so eye opening! Alternative London is the group we used: Street Art Waling Tour London's East End

A small favorite house museum is The Wallace Collection but you might want to save it for another trip as there are so many of the well known places you will want to visit on your first trip.


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## DaveNV (Dec 6, 2021)

Wow.  All this is very helpful!  So we're narrowing things down a bit.

Not necessarily in this order:  Jeff wants to visit the Tate, the Victoria and Albert, and the British Museums. I figure that's one a day, so three days.  We're thinking a theater evening or two to see a play or two, which could be on two of those museum days.  A fourth day for the Buckingham Palace visit @Glynda suggested.  A river cruise and Hop On Hop Off bus tour like @artringwald suggested could be much of a fifth day. Add a day or two just to putz around, visiting places like Selfridges or the West End. So that is a week. Add another day to recuperate from jet lag on arrival, and we're at eight days.  Doing the overnight trip to see Stonehenge and the areas @elaine recommended, and a side trip to Highclere Castle, would add another two days to things. So we're at ten days, without a lot of downtime to just relax and enjoy where we are.  So add that in and make it twelve days. Tack on two days for the walks.com tours @DeniseM recommended, and we've just filled two weeks.

Is this too much to do for a first trip? Obviously, the order of things, and opportunity to combine things to space it all out to be a fun and entertaining trip would be excellent. For those who have been there, what do you think?

Dave


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## DeniseM (Dec 7, 2021)

IMNSO opinion, London is not like Hawaii where you are going to sit on the beach or go hiking on "down days."  You want to have a plan every day to maximize your time.  YMMV

• I would not do overnight to Stonehenge - I would take the London Walks trip which includes Stonehenge and other things in the area, with zero hassle.  Once you have to start figuring out your own transportation in rural areas, it's more complicated.


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## DaveNV (Dec 7, 2021)

DeniseM said:


> IMNSO opinion, London is not like Hawaii where you are going to sit on the beach or go hiking on "down days."  You want to have a plan every day to maximize your time.  YMMV
> 
> • I would not do overnight to Stonehenge - I would take the London Walks trip which includes Stonehenge and other things in the area, with zero hassle.  Once you have to start figuring out your own transportation in rural areas, it's more complicated.



Good points.  I was thinking London might be a lot like our trip to NYC - where i booked something, (sometimes two or three things) every day.  It all ran together so much, my memories are really vague.  I think we did too much.  I wouldn't want to repeat that mistake.

I hadn't seen the walks.com folks had a Stonehenge tour. I need to look there is more detail first, I think.

Any other things on my list that could be adjusted? 

Dave


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## DeniseM (Dec 7, 2021)

Yes, Stonehenge was in my first post: https://www.walks.com/day-trips-from-london/ 

Do yourself a favor and take a really good look at their website first.


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## x3 skier (Dec 7, 2021)

I’d skip Stonehenge as an out of town trip, especially on a first time visit to the UK.  Much more to see on other day trips with London Walks. 

If you want to save some money, take the No 9 or No 10 bus rather than the HoHo’. They pass many of the same sights for much less money. Look up TFL.gov.uk for routes. 

Cheers

PS, Even if the continent is a short Eurostar trip away, don’t even think about it. With the ever changing COVID Rules, you could get stuck in a hotel for a while.


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## Glynda (Dec 7, 2021)

I'd skip Stonehenge on a first trip too. Further afield and has become a very crowded tourist spot. I'd spend my time in London with just a couple of day trips. I would think you can do the Victoria and Albert in half a day. Buckingham Palace could be a half day and you can wander from there down to Harrods. Highclere is another place with limited opening dates. I am seeing September 1, 4 and 5 for 2022. Not because the rest are already sold out, but because they are not open or are only open for special events on other dates. Highclere Admission Tickets  Kensington Palace is an interesting visit too. Other palaces.


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## DaveNV (Dec 7, 2021)

Thanks again, everyone.  Working on dialing things back a bit, and being more realistic with expectations. I wanted to put destination and activity ideas down in one place, so I can work from there. Before committing to anything, or ruling anything out, I'm going to take @DeniseM's advice, and explore the walks.com site in more detail.  I'll work outward from there.

I agree Stonehenge is touristy, overcrowded, and a PITA to get to.  But I don't know if/when we're likely to return. The desire is certainly there, but I don't know if or when we might be back. I'd be extremely disappointed if we made only one trip to the UK and we did not see Stonehenge. It's a place I've wanted to see in person since I was in grade school. Just about everything else on this trip I named above are things Jeff wants to see, and I would be fine with visiting.

I should also say that the soonest this trip would be scheduled is probably September of 2023.  2022 is already booked out for us. So lots of time to plan ahead. And Covid makes for a serious reality check.

Dave


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## elaine (Dec 7, 2021)

Most people at Stonehenge (July 2018) seemed to come on tourist buses. We found very few people at Salisbury Cathedral or walking around Salisbury. It was an easy nonstop train. It fit out agenda (on the return from a cruise) to get that bucket list for our teens. But, I agree with others that one could easily skip that. You can also likely do that on the fly. Just make a cancellable hotel booking and decide when you get there. But, it's a good out of the area trip.


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## DaveNV (Dec 7, 2021)

The Walks.com site says their trip to Stonehenge is not currently running.  Neither is their Tower of London walk.  They don't say why, but I presume due to Covid concerns.  So there's that wrinkle.

Dave


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## DeniseM (Dec 7, 2021)

Hi Dave - Isn't your trip like 2 years away?


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## DaveNV (Dec 7, 2021)

DeniseM said:


> Hi Dave - Isn't your trip like 2 years away?



Yes, at least. I send a message to them, asking if this is temporary and whatnot. Trying to plan ahead as best I can.

Dave


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## Passepartout (Dec 7, 2021)

DaveNV said:


> Yes, at least. I send a message to them, asking if this is temporary and whatnot. Trying to plan ahead as best I can.


I think that lots of tourism in UK and EU is back to a shut-down situation (again). Only necessary services like stores and outdoor venues are operating. We ALL hope and pray for a return to 'normalcy'.


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## nerodog (Dec 7, 2021)

Passepartout said:


> I think that lots of tourism in UK and EU is back to a shut-down situation (again). Only necessary services like stores and outdoor venues are operating. We ALL hope and pray for a return to 'normalcy'.


Yes that's true... we are experiencing  higher numbers  with the new variant  even tho Vax are going on like crazy.  It's changing daily and I'm expecting  more restrictions  if numbers continue  to rise.


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## nerodog (Dec 7, 2021)

S





DaveNV said:


> Yes, at least. I send a message to them, asking if this is temporary and whatnot. Trying to plan ahead as best I can.
> 
> Dave


Good idea.... London has loads to see... if you have your heart set on Stonehenge  then you should  work it into a schedule  with a nice band b and an overnight in the surrounding  area. Plenty of time to check out places . We did many  farm stays years ago with was really off the beaten path...we had a car tho.


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## ScoopKona (Dec 8, 2021)

I go to Stonehenge nearly every time I go to the UK.

But I call English Heritage and get special permission to walk around the actual stones before or after opening hours. I've done this a dozen times. I took my wife on this excursion for our honeymoon. And every time we go to the UK, we do this again. There is nothing like having the place to yourself (mostly), no tour buses, no crazy. Although last time, we got stuck with a bunch of "druids" from Glastonbury who were doing their new-age wackiness at the site.

Most people have no idea this is possible. And I've never seen it mentioned in a Rick Steves book or video. English Heritage Stonehenge Stone Circle Experience.

And I would absolutely stay at the George Hotel in Amesbury that day. I always do.


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## DaveNV (Dec 8, 2021)

ScoopLV said:


> I go to Stonehenge nearly every time I go to the UK.
> 
> But I call English Heritage and get special permission to walk around the actual stones before or after opening hours. I've done this a dozen times. I took my wife on this excursion for our honeymoon. And every time we go to the UK, we do this again. There is nothing like having the place to yourself (mostly), no tour buses, no crazy. Although last time, we got stuck with a bunch of "druids" from Glastonbury who were doing their new-age wackiness at the site.
> 
> ...



Thank you!  This is precisely what I would like to do.  I'm not interested in the Druid thing - I don't do religion in any form - but it wouldn't bother me if they were there.  Just to stand amongst the stones would be so worthwhile to me.  I have bookmarked the English Heritage site, and will make sure we can do this when we visit.   

Dave


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## ScoopKona (Dec 8, 2021)

The "druids" are annoying. The one thing they stress over and over if you do the stone circle experience is don't touch.

And these druids are hugging the stones to "feel the mystic energy."

They're going to get the whole thing shut down because they can't let well enough alone.

The only problems with the tour is that it must be booked far in advance, paid for over the phone, and you're locked into a specific day and time -- and English weather doesn't care if you have your heart set on a pleasant day at Stonehenge. We've been rained on several times. In fact, the coldest I have ever been in my life was Stonehenge at daybreak in July.


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## DaveNV (Dec 8, 2021)

ScoopLV said:


> The "druids" are annoying. The one thing they stress over and over if you do the stone circle experience is don't touch.
> 
> And these druids are hugging the stones to "feel the mystic energy."
> 
> ...



I appreciate how you feel.  I lived in the San Juan Islands in Washington state for nine years, surrounded by tree-hugging second generation hippies who'd rather sit in public places and bang on a drum or play a flute, than get a job. 

I see on the English Heritage site that they're already booking out through March 2023.  I'll keep an eye on things, to make sure we have our best chance of getting in.

Dave


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## DaveNV (Dec 8, 2021)

I just received a reply email from the Walks.com site.  They say they're resuming out of town trips "next year, all things going well."  They said to keep an eye on their website going forward, to schedule something when it becomes available again.  So it sounds as I expected, that they've been having Covid-caused issues.

Dave


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## beejaybeeohio (Dec 8, 2021)

DaveNV said:


> I agree Stonehenge is touristy, overcrowded, and a PITA to get to.  But I don't know if/when we're likely to return. The desire is certainly there, but I don't know if or when we might be back. I'd be extremely disappointed if we made only one trip to the UK and we did not see Stonehenge. It's a place I've wanted to see in person since I was in grade school. Just about everything else on this trip I named above are things Jeff wants to see, and I would be fine with visiting.
> Dave



Dave-
My DD, DSiL and 3 older teen GSs had a whirlwind Christmas week vacation to London and Paris 5 years ago. DSiL is all about cramming as much into a trip as possible so, yes, they included Stonehenge, during their short stay in England. They did have a rental car and spent a night near to Stonehenge at an airbnb. Their advice was to get to Stonehenge 1st thing in the morning to avoid the crowds. DH and I did so 2 years later and were on the 1st bus from the visitor center. We are fast walkers and got to the monoliths just about ahead of everyone for some great photos as the sun was rising in the east. Just got a new laptop and would have added a photo to this post but not all my pictures have transferred.


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## Limace (Dec 8, 2021)

We did a few days in Bath after London a few years ago and we loved it-rented an Airbnb apartment on one of the canals and walked everywhere. The free city walk was fabulous. We did a one day van tour to Stonehenge and would highly recommend-we didn’t find it overly crowded at all and it is still really compelling. 


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## Ken555 (Dec 10, 2021)

ScoopLV said:


> I go to Stonehenge nearly every time I go to the UK.
> 
> But I call English Heritage and get special permission to walk around the actual stones before or after opening hours. I've done this a dozen times. I took my wife on this excursion for our honeymoon. And every time we go to the UK, we do this again. There is nothing like having the place to yourself (mostly), no tour buses, no crazy. Although last time, we got stuck with a bunch of "druids" from Glastonbury who were doing their new-age wackiness at the site.
> 
> ...



This is a great suggestion. I’ve only seen Stonehenge once, in 1990. Somehow I don’t think it’s changed much since then, other than the visitor process. An extended visit with a guide and limited people sounds quite nice, actually. I’ll be back in May and not sure I can dedicated the time and rearrange our schedule, but if I can I would certainly consider this (I checked and there is availability on the day I will be in that part of England).

FWIW, I also enjoy other standing stones in the UK. I’ve seen some in the Lake District which are very interesting.


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## Armada (Dec 13, 2021)

Wow!

You have received some really good advice here. Especially regarding the hop-on, hop-off bus and London Walks. My wife and I have done at least 20 of their tours. We really like that reservations are not needed. You just show up and pay 10-15£ (depending on age) and off you go. If the weather's not good, just change your plans without penalty.

I would like to add one tip. Look at a subway map of London. Then Central Line looks like a bottle laying on its side. You want to stay either 'inside or on' the bottle. Doing this makes things much more convenient.


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## nomoretslt (Mar 21, 2022)

DaveNV said:


> Thanks again, everyone.  Working on dialing things back a bit, and being more realistic with expectations. I wanted to put destination and activity ideas down in one place, so I can work from there. Before committing to anything, or ruling anything out, I'm going to take @DeniseM's advice, and explore the walks.com site in more detail.  I'll work outward from there.
> 
> I agree Stonehenge is touristy, overcrowded, and a PITA to get to.  But I don't know if/when we're likely to return. The desire is certainly there, but I don't know if or when we might be back. I'd be extremely disappointed if we made only one trip to the UK and we did not see Stonehenge. It's a place I've wanted to see in person since I was in grade school. Just about everything else on this trip I named above are things Jeff wants to see, and I would be fine with visiting.
> 
> ...


Late to the party here but wanted to add my two cents.  When we did our 40 years anniversary trip in September 2019, we did two weeks in Italy (mostly with a Globus tour and we had the good fortune of only having 15 in our group instead of the expected 40).  Then the two of us flew into Heathrow.  We were scheduled to board the Disney cruise line in Dover for the transatlantic cruise to NYC,  but our plan was to visit England on our own for a few days.  We originally were going to stay in London, but decided to do the countryside instead....we are not “city” people.  We should have taken a deep dive into understanding their rail system as it would have saved a lot of angst.  We had decided to rent a car....how hard could it be to drive on the wrong side of the road?  Huge, huge mistake.  I always do the driving....I was never so frightened in my life.  Thank goodness the nice lady at Avis gave me a free upgrade to an Audi with an excellent on board navigator.  I had purchased a Garmin with the international upgrade and it was worthless.

Our first night we spent near Leeds, as we wanted to visit Leeds Castle.  I actually sobbed when we arrived at the Hilton.  The major roadway we were traveling on was closed due to an accident...and the alternate route also was jammed due to another accident.

Leeds castle was lovely and in such a wonderful setting,  they were getting ready for a big flower festival and everything was just beautiful.  The next couple of nights were spent in an old bed and breakfast/pub not too far from Dover.  It was a delight.  Our room was very up to date with a private bathroom.  It included a full English breakfast but we told them to not bring the black pudding.  They opened the pub at night and it was like an episode from Midsommer Murders on Netflix.  All locals out for a pint with their dogs.

We ventured to Canterbury and were very disappointed.  The cathedral was under renovation.  But we did have the best fish and chips there.  And I got us back and forth without driving into a ditch. 

When we left the Bed and Breakfast, we took the short drive to Dover port.  We dropped our car off at the Avis place and headed for the Disney Magic.

Our first stop was Plymouth, England.  We were very excited because we signed up for the excursion to Stonehenge!!!!!  I completely understand why you want to go there.  Since I was a young child, I was fascinated by the pictures I saw.  Seemed like the National Geographic magazine always had stories about the place.  It was a long bus ride and the tour lady droned on and on.  It was worth all that pain.  It was just fascinating.  There was a light mist when we arrived and it made everything a little spooky.  There was an area with food for purchase.  It didn’t seem like there was much else around there, but we had come in from the coast, not much to see. 

When the ship was leaving the dock, they had some kind of send off ceremony and shot off a cannon. 

We really loved the people from the English countryside.  So friendly and loved to hear us talk.  They seemed to think we had accents.
Many people on the cruise were from England and told us the trains are pretty much easy to use.  So if you venture out of London I strongly recommend you either go with a tour group or take a bus or train.  You have plenty of time to plan!  Writing this made me miss England.  I spent most of my life thinking I was English on my fathers side, with some Irish mixed in.  Surprise!  My daughter took one of those DNA tests.  My Dads side is Irish and Scottish.  No English blood.  I was a little disappointed.


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## DaveNV (Mar 21, 2022)

nomoretslt said:


> Late to the party here but wanted to add my two cents.



What a great post.  Thank you! It sounds like you had a great vacation, and made some excellent memories.  I wouldn't dare drive there, so it'll be buses, trains, and tours for us, thanks.    We're still planning, but so many other options are opening up, I'm not sure how soon we'll get to England.  It's definitely on the list, but I'm not sure how soon we'll make it there.

Ironic you'd find your ancestry wasn't as English as you thought.  I had a similar (but different) experience: My whole life my Mother said we were "Scotch-Irish, and a little English."  My daughter has spent a lot of time on Ancestry, researching every nuance of the extended family in all directions. We all took DNA tests, since my siblings and I all have different fathers. Turns out I'm 55% English, 30% Scottish, and only 3% Irish.  I have more Norwegian, Swedish and Dane in me than Irish. So much for my Mom's wishful thinking!  

Thanks for your excellent post. I appreciate the tips!

Dave


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## geist1223 (Mar 22, 2022)

Driving in the United Kingdom is fun. I have driven in Ireland, Wales, Scotland, New Zealand, and Australia.


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## SmithOp (Mar 22, 2022)

DaveNV said:


> What a great post. Thank you! It sounds like you had a great vacation, and made some excellent memories. I wouldn't dare drive there, so it'll be buses, trains, and tours for us, thanks.  We're still planning, but so many other options are opening up, I'm not sure how soon we'll get to England. It's definitely on the list, but I'm not sure how soon we'll make it there.
> 
> Ironic you'd find your ancestry wasn't as English as you thought. I had a similar (but different) experience: My whole life my Mother said we were "Scotch-Irish, and a little English." My daughter has spent a lot of time on Ancestry, researching every nuance of the extended family in all directions. We all took DNA tests, since my siblings and I all have different fathers. Turns out I'm 55% English, 30% Scottish, and only 3% Irish. I have more Norwegian, Swedish and Dane in me than Irish. So much for my Mom's wishful thinking!
> 
> ...



I’m a little more English than you Dave, 65% but I have 7% Swede/Dane also - that was the Viking conquests spreading their DNA. Traced my mothers side back 500 years in the same village, not a very adventurous lot until migrating to US before WW1.


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## nomoretslt (Mar 22, 2022)

Not sure why a moderator deleted part of my post regarding black pudding.  It is quite repulsive and is actually banned in the US.  It’s made using drained sheep or pork blood, sometimes the lungs of a sheep, and other stuff that I would never want to eat on purpose.  Kind of like scrapple in the south.


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## SmithOp (Mar 22, 2022)

nomoretslt said:


> Not sure why a moderator deleted part of my post regarding black pudding. It is quite repulsive and is actually banned in the US. It’s made using drained sheep or pork blood, sometimes the lungs of a sheep, and other stuff that I would never want to eat on purpose. Kind of like scrapple in the south.


Do you eat hot dogs?

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## ScoopKona (Mar 23, 2022)

Black pudding is awesome. So is haggis.


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## nomoretslt (Mar 23, 2022)

SmithOp said:


> Do you eat hot dogs?
> 
> Sent from my Lenovo 10e using Tapatalk


As a rule, I stay away from prepackaged ones at the grocery store.  The local German butcher where we used to live made their own beef hot dogs.  We bulked up on them before moving and had a nice supply in the freezer.  When friends or family come to visit if our house ever gets done they will be instructed to bring a new supply.

If I think too hard about where my food comes from, I wouldn’t be able to eat.  I’d rather keep my head in the sand about some things.


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## ScoopKona (Mar 23, 2022)

nomoretslt said:


> If I think too hard about where my food comes from, I wouldn’t be able to eat.  I’d rather keep my head in the sand about some things.



I'll never understand this. Tripe is AWESOME. Sheep's pluck? No problems. Blood? No problems. Kidney? No problems.

One of the things I like most about visiting the UK is that I know I'm going to get great meals -- kidney pies, eels, pasties, and especially haggis. Haggis is, without a single, solitary doubt, the best single dish yet invented by humans.

It drives me absolutely batty that I cannot obtain it in the US because most Americans are food squeamish. I have long held the belief that Americans should try actually starving sometime -- so that they can get over themselves when it comes to food. Snout-to-tail won't sound so bad if they've known what hunger is.


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## nomoretslt (Mar 23, 2022)

No need to be so.......


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## ScoopKona (Mar 23, 2022)

nomoretslt said:


> No need to be so.......



I didn't bring it up, twice.

What I want to know is where do these people get off telling me what I can and cannot eat? Don't want it? Don't eat it. Stick with Hot Pockets, Corn Dogs or whatever it is Americans are chewing on these days.

But if I want to eat a Steak and Kidney Pasty, with a side of Haggis and Black Pudding, and then wash it down with raw milk, I don't want some timid, squeamish Wonder-bread-eating government flack telling me I can't.

We can't get "the good stuff" here because of this attitude -- raw milk cheese and similar. And I'm completely sick of it.


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## nomoretslt (Mar 23, 2022)

This is supposed to be a helpful thread for Dave.  I mentioned black pudding because some people don’t know what it is.
Perhaps you could start your own thread about how much you don’t like people that don’t like the same foods you do.  There are many people that don’t eat certain things due to their religious beliefs.
I know there is an “ignore” button somewhere for these boards.  I will now seek it out and engage it.


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## ScoopKona (Mar 23, 2022)

If you lead by calling a dish "repulsive," you're going to get replies.

And "I'm just trying to help" doesn't hold water. Getting people to try new foods and push their boundaries a little is helpful -- that's that makes travel bring the world together. 

"Eww gross!" is the polar opposite of that philosophy.


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## DaveNV (Nov 10, 2022)

Circling back to my thread about planning a trip to London. Please take any discussion about food to another thread. Thanks.

I'm back to working on planning a vacation to Great Britain in 2024.  I've been comparing vacation packages (airfare + hotel) but the pricing I'm seeing is more than what I think I can book the same thing for myself directly.  I'm exploring booking airfare separate from a hotel, unless I can find a combination deal that works.  This isn't going to be a bargain basement trip, but I also don't have the deepest pockets in town.  We're flying Premium Economy, rather than Business or First Class.  I know it won't be Coach, which just wouldn't work for us.  I'm willing to pay upwards for tickets to give a more decent flight experience on such a lengthy flight from here.  Even nonstop, it's a ten hour flight for us to London

I have a fair bit of time before I'd need to book something, so I'm looking for recommendations from Tuggers about London hotels. Is there a decent hotel or BnB you can recommend that is centrally located to the usual things a first-time tourist would want to see?  I'm talking landmarks we all grew up hearing about - London Bridge, Tower of London, Buckingham Palace, and whatever.  If there are better places to stay a bit further out, but a tube ride away, that'd be good too. A boutique place would be fine to stay - we don't need over the top accommodations, as long as it's clean, safe, and located in an area where we can get around easily. We won't be cooking in, so a kitchen isn't necessary. Not overly interested in nightlife, except for maybe a nice pub on the corner to get a beer with the locals. Theater is always interesting, so I'd love to hear about something you've seen there.

I'm still looking into tour companies to help us see the things we want to see.  We know there is a ton more to experience than we'd ever be able to see in one trip, so we won't try.  The only must-see we know we want to visit is Stonehenge.  I'll figure the best way to do that, probably through the National Trust (I think?) mentioned previously.  I'm wide open to other suggestions.

Anybody have things to discuss?

Dave


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## VacationForever (Nov 10, 2022)

I just saw this thread, didn't see it when it was first created.  I have been to London twice for work and extended the trips, and did all the stuff (twice because I did the same thing for each trip, LOL), London Bridge, changing of the guards, Tower of London, Buckingham Palace, Bath, Stonehenge etc.  We have just booked a 2-week Collette tour for May/June 2023 to cover England, Wales, Scotland and Ireland, since I really want to visit Scotland and Ireland.

We have never flown international lower than First Class or Business Class, but alas we "settled" for Premium Economy with KLM.


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## ScoopKona (Nov 10, 2022)

DaveNV said:


> I'm still looking into tour companies to help us see the things we want to see.  We know there is a ton more to experience than we'd ever be able to see in one trip, so we won't try.  The only must-see we know we want to visit is Stonehenge.  I'll figure the best way to do that, probably through the National Trust (I think?) mentioned previously.  I'm wide open to other suggestions.



That's "English Heritage" and "the Stone Circle Experience." Stay in Amesbury (train ride) at the George Hotel (you have little choice here). Salisbury is lovely as well. Worth a full day or two on the Stonehenge leg. I've done the Experience several times -- I do it nearly every time I go to the UK. My wife insists. The trick is to hop on their website and get a good idea how far out you can book, and when. You will be required to call the UK and pay with a credit card if your application is approved -- I hope they learn how Paypal works this century.

London's biggest problem is there is simply too much to see. British Museum? That's a full day. The Tower? Full day. Walking around Knightsbridge? Full day. Where you stay in London simply doesn't matter. The Underground is fast and efficient. If you find a place right on the Circle Line, you will have the easiest possible time -- most of what you want to see is on the circle line. And don't forget that Thames commuter boats are part of your Oyster Card. Seek those out and go just for the experience.

My "sleeper" suggestions for London: Greenwich, the Observatory, the Gypsy Moth (pub), and the Cutty Sark. That is a fine, fine day right there. Another is the Cheshire Cheese, which is my favorite pub in all of London. Often my first stop. And whatever you do, see who is playing the Albert Hall. I've seen Roger Hodgson and Mark Knopfler play there. And those are two of the top 10 concerts of my life -- seeing them at the Albert made it a better experience. Staggeringly good acoustics and Old Speckled Hen on tap during intermission. A show at the Albert is an experience that everyone should try if they can.

Airline? Two reasonable choices from LAS:  LAS -> LHR on Virgin (11 hour flight). I prefer LAS -> SEA -> KEF -> a few days in Iceland -> LHR. Iceland Air does a stopover program which gives you essentially a free stay in Iceland to break your trip up. Every flight I make from Hawaii will be KOA -> SEA (eat crab for a day or two) -> KEF (soak in hot springs for a day or two while eating salmon) -> 'yurp.

As for food, I have never had a bad meal in the UK. And the time I've spent there can be measured in years, not days. But, I play to the UK's strengths -- they have the best curry outside of India (and many prefer UK curry.) Fried cod. Pasties and assorted meat pies. Eel. UK traditional breakfast is either #1 or #2 -- neck and neck with Irish Traditional breakfast. I'm happy with either. And especially haggis if you get to Scotland. I'd pay a thousand dollars to have a haggis teleported to my location right now. The fine dining scene is as good as France and the US. So if you want high-end, you can't go wrong. And foraging is alive and well in the UK -- and that's my favorite cuisine of all, hyper-local.


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## DaveNV (Nov 10, 2022)

VacationForever said:


> I just saw this thread, didn't see it when it was first created.  I have been to London twice for work and extended the trips, and did all the stuff (twice because I did the same thing for each trip, LOL), London Bridge, changing of the guards, Tower of London, Buckingham Palace, Bath, Stonehenge etc.  We have just booked a 2-week Collette tour for May/June 2023 to cover England, Wales, Scotland and Ireland, since I really want to visit Scotland and Ireland.
> 
> We have never flown international lower than First Class or Business Class, but alas we "settled" for Premium Economy with KLM.



This sounds like the sort of trip we'd like to plan.  I've mentioned London, but there are ideas of adding Scotland onto the end of things.  Wales and Ireland would certainly be worthwhile, although I don't want to try and cram too much into a first trip there. If we can make this first trip work well, then there will be more in the future.

So many damn options...  

Dave


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## DaveNV (Nov 10, 2022)

ScoopKona said:


> That's "English Heritage" and "the Stone Circle Experience." Stay in Amesbury (train ride) at the George Hotel (you have little choice here). Salisbury is lovely as well. Worth a full day or two on the Stonehenge leg. I've done the Experience several times -- I do it nearly every time I go to the UK. My wife insists. The trick is to hop on their website and get a good idea how far out you can book, and when. You will be required to call the UK and pay with a credit card if your application is approved -- I hope they learn how Paypal works this century.



Yes, it was your mention earlier I was talking about.  They're currently booking through May 2024.  We're likely to go in September 2024, so will watch for when it's possible to book things.  I also want to see what other sites they handle, to decide whether the annual membership is less expensive than individual tickets.



ScoopKona said:


> London's biggest problem is there is simply too much to see. British Museum? That's a full day. The Tower? Full day. Walking around Knightsbridge? Full day. Where you stay in London simply doesn't matter. The Underground is fast and efficient. If you find a place right on the Circle Line, you will have the easiest possible time -- most of what you want to see is on the circle line. And don't forget that Thames commuter boats are part of your Oyster Card. Seek those out and go just for the experience.



Trying to pare down the choices to things that will be of value to us, but that work within our limitations.  My husband is a diabetic with severe neuropathy and chronic back issues, so wandering around a place without enough food at hand and nowhere to sit down is very difficult.  We need to be able to get him parked for awhile when he requires a rest. So the touring will have to be manageable.

And I can't even worry about food at this point.  I'm sure there will be plenty to try, and I know we won't go hungry.  

Dave


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## VacationForever (Nov 10, 2022)

I forgot to mention that I drove both times when I visited London for work.  Actually the office and hotel were in Swindon and I drove.  I grew up driving on the other side of the road so driving was a breeze for me, except that the roads were very narrow.  I paid a cab driver each time to drive me through the Magic Roundabout but that is in Swindon, which is more than an hour drive away from London.  I was used to traffic circles when I was growing up, but they were nothing like some of the ones in England.  That in itself was quite an experience.


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## VacationForever (Nov 10, 2022)

DaveNV said:


> This sounds like the sort of trip we'd like to plan.  I've mentioned London, but there are ideas of adding Scotland onto the end of things.  Wales and Ireland would certainly be worthwhile, although I don't want to try and cram too much into a first trip there. If we can make this first trip work well, then there will be more in the future.
> 
> So many damn options...
> 
> Dave


I really enjoyed Bath.  If I were to prioritize, after seeing all the famous attractions in London, I would prioritize Bath over Stonehenge.  Stonehenge is kind of boring.


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## Passepartout (Nov 10, 2022)

VacationForever said:


> I really enjoyed Bath.  If I were to prioritize, after seeing all the famous attractions in London, I would prioritize Bath over Stonehenge.  Stonehenge is kind of boring.


I kind of agree. The visitor's center at Stonehenge is well done, but the stones themselves are ho-hum. But it's something that's a bucket list item.


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## ScoopKona (Nov 11, 2022)

DaveNV said:


> Yes, it was your mention earlier I was talking about.  They're currently booking through May 2024.  We're likely to go in September 2024, so will watch for when it's possible to book things.  I also want to see what other sites they handle, to decide whether the annual membership is less expensive than individual tickets.



I looked into this and it wasn't worth it for us. The Stonehenge experience is the only thing that is head-and-shoulders better than what the average visitor can see. (At least that I've found. There aren't any "take pictures wearing the crown jewels while sitting on the throne" experiences.) Being able to walk around the stones, no other tourists, no lines, at either sunrise or sunset? Very few people will ever experience that. Last time was marred by a bunch of new-age hippie-dippy types, hugging the stones (against the rules), to "tap into the mystical druid energy." 

As for food, go to the markets. Even Tesco (the WalMart of the UK) is a solid option. They have better raw materials than we have in the US. Pick up cheeses, bread, Devonshire doublecream, jam, scones, etc. Eat that on the train or have a bag with you at all times. Unless you go deep into the rural areas, there's always a West Cornwall Pasty Co., a curry, or a chippy nearby. And even if you're deep into the rural areas, there's a pub.

There's a lot to be said for staying in one place for a week. We once spent a week in Cromer, England, in this middle of winter. Other than being the home to the inventor of Dyson vacuum cleaners, there's a whole lot of not much there. And that's precisely why it was such a good trip -- we weren't treated like tourists for the entire time we were there. Food and drink is what we enjoy most in the UK -- yes, there are loads of things to see. But we've seen them. So going someplace nobody ever visits is a real treat. Near the end of our trip, a fisherman we befriended at the beginning of our trip was dropping off fish at our timeshare. "Broil this. You've never had anything like it in your life. I promise!" People were grabbing us in the afternoon for dinner parties in the evening. 

Probably the most stress-free vacation we've ever had. Why? No schedule to keep. No "gotta check this off" sights to see. "Let's go to the next town over and see what they have." The most culturally significant thing we did on that entire trip was a tour of a mustard factory. They didn't normally do tours. "Well, can't you just show us around and then sell us some mustard?"


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## PcflEZFlng (Nov 11, 2022)

On a trip to the Mediterranean in 2014 (for a cruise), we had a day and two nights in London on the way back. We stayed in Piccadilly Circus for its central location (and because we could use points for the hotel), and spent our day walking all over Knightsbridge, Hyde Park, Kensington Gardens, and Embassy Row (admittedly, that might be challenging for someone with mobility issues). We visited Buckingham Palace and the Churchill War Rooms, and had tea at the Royal Garden Hotel. We were never in a hurry and casually took our time, yet it still seemed like we saw and did a lot. That one single day was one of the highlights of our trip.


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## SmithOp (Nov 11, 2022)

VacationForever said:


> I really enjoyed Bath. If I were to prioritize, after seeing all the famous attractions in London, I would prioritize Bath over Stonehenge. Stonehenge is kind of boring.


I agree, Bath has so many things happening vs stones in a field. You can do a day trip from Bath to the henge, there are tour operators in Bath. It was an easy train ride from London and a short walk to the hotel from the station.

We stayed at the Hilton hotel in Bath and did a tour van to Stonehenge. The Roman ruins was infinitely more interesting in Bath.

Sent from my Lenovo 10e using Tapatalk


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## sponger76 (Nov 11, 2022)

SmithOp said:


> I agree, Bath has so many things happening vs stones in a field. You can do a day trip from Bath to the henge, there are tour operators in Bath. It was an easy train ride from London and a short walk to the hotel from the station.
> 
> We stayed at the Hilton hotel in Bath and did a tour van to Stonehenge. The Roman ruins was infinitely more interesting in Bath.
> 
> Sent from my Lenovo 10e using Tapatalk


I think Stonehenge is still worth seeing, just to get the curiosity out of the way. Literally the week before the UK went into COVID restrictions I was in London with my family. On a whim we booked a last-minute tour that bused us to Stonehenge for about an hour and a half, then continued on to Bath. It included entry to the Roman ruins. Also some time to explore the city, during which we spent an hour in one of the hot-spring-fed pools and then explored the cathedral. Then the tour took us back to London in time for a late dinner. The tour guide was great.


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## DaveNV (Nov 11, 2022)

I realize Stonehenge is just rocks in a field.  I know they just sit there, and nothing happens except sunshine and shadows, when it's not raining.  But for the kid who grew up seeing pictures of them, it'd be like going to Niagara Falls and not seeing the water.  Or going to Yellowstone and not seeing Old Faithful.  Or NYC and not seeing the Statue of Liberty.  Or the Grand Canyon and not looking over the edge.  It's a destination bucket list thing for me, even if it's boring to others.  After an hour of walking around, soaking up the sense of history in the place, THEN I'll be ready to see the exciting stuff, and I probably won't feel the need to return.  Unless the Druids take me captive, or something...   

Dave


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## ScoopKona (Nov 11, 2022)

DaveNV said:


> I realize Stonehenge is just rocks in a field.



Don't listen to the detractors. Stonehenge is awesome. I'm willing to bet that everyone who says it's "blah" didn't do the invitation-only trip and walk right up to the stones. The average tourist is only allowed to see it from a couple hundred meters away. And that isn't nearly as interesting as being able to walk around the stones and have a sense of scale. All my travel photos are on the mainland, otherwise I'd post a picture of my wife, under a Stonehenge archway, in the pouring rain. (That's the problem with making an appointment to see the stones -- English weather doesn't care if you waited your whole life to do this.) That's what happened on our honeymoon -- pouring, freezing rain at dawn in July. We went back several more times because why not? It doesn't cost much and we've had great experiences there.

I'll never understand that attitude: "I've never tried it. But I'm going to say it sucks anyway." Aesop would have a field day. "Didn't anyone read my stories? Harumph!"


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