# Change in Quality Dental Cleanings



## WinniWoman (Feb 13, 2017)

For many years we went to a dentist who wasn't the greatest but he had a fantastic dental hygienist who did a thorough 1 hour dental cleaning as covered by our dental insurance twice per year.

Because of a job change/location at the time, it became too inconvenient for me to go there anymore- same with my husband. So we switched to another practice near my job and although the dental cleanings were ok, they were only a half hour long and didn't seem as good.

The dentist there was excellent, but because of billing issues (another story) I ended up switching again and so did my husband but we now go to two different places. Again, the cleanings are only a half hour long and not as thorough at both practices.

During my last cleaning the hygienist tells me she needs to do a separate deep cleaning around all my molars and recommended I schedule an appointment to do so. My portion of the bill would be $48. My appointment was today and I will tell you it was very thorough- like my original cleanings used to be. It took her exactly a half hour. Perhaps the half hour that is no longer included in the annual cleaning I wondered?

This made me wonder if this is a new billing "trick" for the dental practices. Cleanings are not as thorough and now 1/2 hour long instead of an hour. Therefore, gums/teeth eventually need a so-called "deeper" cleaning. Dentist can bill off a separate code. Patient will also have to pay a copay unlike the 2- 4 annual cleanings allowed by the insurance company.

I always had 2 annual cleanings but our insurance now pays for 4 and I am wondering if I should schedule 4 from now on since they are not as good. The office is aware that I am allowed 4, but only schedule every 6 months. They never have even asked if I wanted to come back in 3 months.

What have other Tuggers experienced with their dental cleanings? Anything similar to this?


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## Kozman (Feb 13, 2017)

I bet if insurance would pay for 12 cleanings a year they would recommend 12/year. The deep cleaning is much more expensive but I'm not sure how much better they are. I don't have dental insurance so I'm more than happy with traditional cleaning.


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## A.Win (Feb 13, 2017)

If you travel overseas and have no insurance, you should consider getting dental procedures. They can be much cheaper. And it gives you a chance to meet real people that live in that country. Labor is much cheaper and many of the dentists studied in the U.S. or Caribbean just like the U.S. based dentists.


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## dioxide45 (Feb 13, 2017)

I only thought deep cleanings were recommended for those with periodontal or gum disease. For someone with otherwise good dental health, it was simply a scam they are trying to pull to soak you for more money? Reading on this, it looks like deep cleanings as they are to be a done in four quadrants, not all at one time. They are rather invasive. Is your new dentist a new corporate dentist like Aspen or the like?


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## VacationForever (Feb 13, 2017)

From my experience, the Delta HMO (see the word HMO!) providers were usually scums and insisted that there is out of pocket for "deep cleaning".  Never encounter the problem when we went with Delta PPO.  Same cleaning, no compaints about the need for "deep cleaning". Same way that I take care of my teeth, I floss every night.


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## WinniWoman (Feb 14, 2017)

dioxide45 said:


> I only thought deep cleanings were recommended for those with periodontal or gum disease. For someone with otherwise good dental health, it was simply a scam they are trying to pull to soak you for more money? Reading on this, it looks like deep cleanings as they are to be a done in four quadrants, not all at one time. They are rather invasive. Is your new dentist a new corporate dentist like Aspen or the like?



That is what I thought, also. The hygienist said I had some inflammation on the gums around my molars. This is a different one than I had the first couple of times. 

Also, I was assigned a different dentist. She actually misdiagnosed a cavity which really needed a crown and I am now dealing with that. When she started to drill for the cavity she realized it. Because she did not have enough time (due to another patient coming in behind me) she handed me over to another dentist there who did the work and put a temp crown on. He didn't do the impression yet. He claimed the cavity was very close to the root and he wanted to make sure that there was no infection needing a root canal before ordering a crown. I think he just didn't have time to do the impression. Getting that done this Thursday so they can order the crown. I was disappointed as the other dentist I had at the other practice made his own crowns and did everything in one visit.

This practice and owner/dentist was written up in Hudson Valley Magazine as one of the area's best dentists-I think more for the cosmetic procedures he performs. But it is kind of like Aspen in so far as there are a couple of dentists (and has been some turnover in the short time I have been there) and hygienists, with multiple exam rooms.


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## WinniWoman (Feb 14, 2017)

Kozman said:


> I bet if insurance would pay for 12 cleanings a year they would recommend 12/year. The deep cleaning is much more expensive but I'm not sure how much better they are. I don't have dental insurance so I'm more than happy with traditional cleaning.



Yes. But mine pays for 4 and they only schedule 2.


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## WinniWoman (Feb 14, 2017)

VacationForever said:


> From my experience, the Delta HMO (see the word HMO!) providers were usually scums and insisted that there is out of pocket for "deep cleaning".  Never encounter the problem when we went with Delta PPO.  Same cleaning, no compaints about the need for "deep cleaning". Same way that I take care of my teeth, I floss every night.



I have Aetna PPO. I take care of my teeth. Brush twice a day. Take floss with me to work in case. Chew sugar free gum. Floss and water pik at night. Use a fluoride rinse before bed. Now she tells me to also use those tiny brush things as well.Another thing to do..


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## bogey21 (Feb 14, 2017)

About a year ago I moved and changed dentists.  I find his techs newer cleaning protocol faster and more thorough at the same time.

George


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## Egret1986 (Feb 14, 2017)

mpumilia said:


> Yes. But mine pays for 4 and they only schedule 2.


If four are covered by insurance, make the request for four or ask the dentist for an explanation why you're only being scheduled for two.  I have had the same dentist and periodontist for years.  My periodontal disease has been kept in check by doing three-month rotational cleanings over the years.  All my cleanings are still one-hour.

TUG members and guests won't be able to answer why on the two cleanings vs four or the the half hour vs one hour.  I would be upset about my cleanings going from an hour to a half hour and would expect an explanation.  If one wasn't given, I would ask for one.


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## WinniWoman (Feb 14, 2017)

Egret1986 said:


> If four are covered by insurance, make the request for four or ask the dentist for an explanation why you're only being scheduled for two.  I have had the same dentist and periodontist for years.  My periodontal disease has been kept in check by doing three-month rotational cleanings over the years.  All my cleanings are still one-hour.
> 
> TUG members and guests won't be able to answer why on the two cleanings vs four or the the half hour vs one hour.  I would be upset about my cleanings going from an hour to a half hour and would expect an explanation.  If one wasn't given, I would ask for one.




Yes. Right. The hour cleanings were what we have always had- but when we changed dentists years ago- both of the new practices only did 1/2 hour cleanings. I thought maybe it was a new trend, but if you are getting one hour cleanings then I have probably been using the wrong dentists. It is so hard to find good dentists and doctors up here where we live.


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## Egret1986 (Feb 14, 2017)

mpumilia said:


> Yes. Right. The hour cleanings were what we have always had- but when we changed dentists years ago- both of the new practices only did 1/2 hour cleanings. I thought maybe it was a new trend, but if you are getting onehour cleanings then I have probably been using the wrong dentists. It is so hard to find good dentists and doctors up here where we live.



I feel very fortunate that I have had been able to keep the same dentist over the years.  I feel really good also that the I've also had the same dental hygienists as well.  My dentist's son also joined the practice several years ago as well.  Fortunately, I see a long future ahead.  

I can't imagine a half-hour cleaning only.  Even with going every three months, I feel I need the one hour cleanings.  I'm pretty diligent with my oral hygiene, but it's not enough.  I believe the periodontal disease has been kept at bay due to my home work and the four cleanings that I receive each year.  

I'm sorry to hear about your plight.  I hope this isn't a new trend in dentistry or with the insurance companies.  Good luck to you.  I feel blessed.


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## VacationForever (Feb 14, 2017)

I think mine had always been half an hour.  Never had complaints other than the scumbag HMO Dental practice.  The little brushes or even toothpicks are good after meals, but if we only remember to do it!


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## Sugarcubesea (Feb 14, 2017)

I had to have a deep cleaning as I have gum disease, and it was only 1/2 hour but was only one quadrant of the month and cost me $48. I just switched dentists as I had been going to Great Expressions which is like a puppy mill dentistry and switched to this new dentist in January. I had a cavity and my filling only cost $28


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## Patri (Feb 14, 2017)

I have had a very good dentist and cleanings were only ever 1/2 hour.


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## VegasBella (Feb 15, 2017)

We pay out of pocket for dental procedures, no insurance for dental. My cleanings take about a half hour. I don't think it's related to insurance.

I don't think the amount of time it takes someone to clean your teeth is a good measurement of how well they do the job. Surely you've been to different hairstylists and some take 20 minutes and others take an hour.... some of those hour long ones just do the cut over and over and you end up with hair much shorter than you wanted it. It's not all about how long they take, some are just quicker than others.


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## rickandcindy23 (Feb 15, 2017)

My dental cleaning takes about a half hour total, unless I get x-rays, which I avoid as much as possible.  

Rick goes tomorrow, and I go in about a month, I think.  Our cleanings are not covered by the ridiculously-priced dental insurance we have through the fire department.  Rick's retired, so we pay $1,107 per month for our health insurance, and about $90 per month is dental and vision.  Rick had Lasik surgery and doesn't need glasses, and I go once every two years.  Each time we get a cleaning, we pay $110 on our own.  The insurance picks up about $10.  I have had one cavity in 20 years.  I am fed up with our dental insurance.  Our vision insurance is also a rip, but I don't know the breakdown, as those are together.


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## Luanne (Feb 15, 2017)

My cleanings take about an hour, they've always taken that amount of time even with all of the different hygienists I've seen over the years.  I've had the deep cleaning a few times as I do have gum issues (and have had gum graft surgeries).  Those usually took an hour each as they would do half of the mouth at a time.


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## WinniWoman (Feb 15, 2017)

rickandcindy23 said:


> My dental cleaning takes about a half hour total, unless I get x-rays, which I avoid as much as possible.
> 
> Rick goes tomorrow, and I go in about a month, I think.  Our cleanings are not covered by the ridiculously-priced dental insurance we have through the fire department.  Rick's retired, so we pay $1,107 per month for our health insurance, and about $90 per month is dental and vision.  Rick had Lasik surgery and doesn't need glasses, and I go once every two years.  Each time we get a cleaning, we pay $110 on our own.  The insurance picks up about $10.  I have had one cavity in 20 years.  I am fed up with our dental insurance.  Our vision insurance is also a rip, but I don't know the breakdown, as those are together.




I used to work in health insurance on the commercial side and I would advise you to drop your dental insurance and vision insurance. It is definitely not worth it. And even more so that your cleanings are not covered. You are better off paying out of pocket. Even many dental and vision plans through employers are not really worth the premiums paid. Your utilization of vision services is so low that you should not bother with that insurance either.

Your health insurance premiums seem crazy also. Are you on Medicare?


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## Luanne (Feb 15, 2017)

mpumilia said:


> I used to work in health insurance on the commercial side and I would advise you to drop your dental insurance and vision insurance. It is definitely not worth it. And even more so that your cleanings are not covered. You are better off paying out of pocket. Even many dental and vision plans through employers are not really worth the premiums paid. Your utilization of vision services is so low that you should not bother with that insurance either.
> 
> Your health insurance premiums seem crazy also. Are you on Medicare?


My husband and I dropped our dental insurance once we were both on Medicare.  The premiums were just too expensive.  Even with us both having three, to four, cleanings a year we do better paying out of pocket.

We do continue to have vision care insurance.  We both wear glasses and go in once a year.  The premiums are low enough that it makes sense.


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## Brett (Feb 15, 2017)

rickandcindy23 said:


> My dental cleaning takes about a half hour total, unless I get x-rays, which I avoid as much as possible.
> 
> Rick goes tomorrow, and I go in about a month, I think.  Our cleanings are not covered by the ridiculously-priced dental insurance we have through the fire department.  Rick's retired, so we pay $1,107 per month for our health insurance, and about $90 per month is dental and vision.  Rick had Lasik surgery and doesn't need glasses, and I go once every two years.  Each time we get a cleaning, we pay $110 on our own.  The insurance picks up about $10.  I have had one cavity in 20 years.  I am fed up with our dental insurance.  Our vision insurance is also a rip, but I don't know the breakdown, as those are together.



I agree with other posters, dental insurance doesn't make financial sense
but paying over $1,000 for health insurance for two people  - that sounds crazy high
but then maybe you don't have "affordable' subsidized health insurance soon to be repealed and replaced with a fantastic "great" health insurance


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## rickandcindy23 (Feb 15, 2017)

mpumilia said:


> I used to work in health insurance on the commercial side and I would advise you to drop your dental insurance and vision insurance. It is definitely not worth it. And even more so that your cleanings are not covered. You are better off paying out of pocket. Even many dental and vision plans through employers are not really worth the premiums paid. Your utilization of vision services is so low that you should not bother with that insurance either.
> 
> Your health insurance premiums seem crazy also. Are you on Medicare?



That's good advice.  We will drop our vision and dental during open enrollment in October.  We should have done it this year.

We are not on Medicare yet.  We are 62 this spring.


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## dioxide45 (Feb 15, 2017)

mpumilia said:


> I used to work in health insurance on the commercial side and I would advise you to drop your dental insurance and vision insurance. It is definitely not worth it. And even more so that your cleanings are not covered. You are better off paying out of pocket. Even many dental and vision plans through employers are not really worth the premiums paid. Your utilization of vision services is so low that you should not bother with that insurance either.
> 
> Your health insurance premiums seem crazy also. Are you on Medicare?


Our vision insurance costs $2.64 and our employer has stated that this is 100% employee paid. I don't know how much a vision exam costs at full price, but we only have a $15 copay. The program covers $130 in contacts every year. That really doesn't go far, but the insurance does save us money since the annual premiums are less than $70. Buying glasses isn't cheap and our insurance only costs us small copays depending on the type of lenses and add ons we add to the lenses.

I could make a case for dropping dental since the annual premiums cost just over $175 and I am sure two cleanings a year with biannual bite-wing wouldn't cost that much. Considering that I could also pay for those out of pocket through our HSA makes for even more savings by just paying cash.


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## WinniWoman (Feb 16, 2017)

dioxide45 said:


> Our vision insurance costs $2.64 and our employer has stated that this is 100% employee paid. I don't know how much a vision exam costs at full price, but we only have a $15 copay. The program covers $130 in contacts every year. That really doesn't go far, but the insurance does save us money since the annual premiums are less than $70. Buying glasses isn't cheap and our insurance only costs us small copays depending on the type of lenses and add ons we add to the lenses.
> 
> I could make a case for dropping dental since the annual premiums cost just over $175 and I am sure two cleanings a year with biannual bite-wing wouldn't cost that much. Considering that I could also pay for those out of pocket through our HSA makes for even more savings by just paying cash.



If your dental premiums are only $175 per year, that is pretty good, depending on what the coverage entails. The 2 cleanings and xrays and an exam would certainly cost at least that and you have the added protection of some coverage if you have an issue. 

You are lucky to have such a cheap premium on your vision plan. Most are pretty expensive for the coverage. So I agree- in your case the vision plan makes sense, especially since you go to the eye doc every year and get glasses and contacts every year. Eye exams range from $100 to $300 depending on what kind of practitioner you use. (optometrist vs. ophthalmologist, etc.)


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## Jason245 (Feb 16, 2017)

rickandcindy23 said:


> My dental cleaning takes about a half hour total, unless I get x-rays, which I avoid as much as possible.
> 
> Rick goes tomorrow, and I go in about a month, I think.  Our cleanings are not covered by the ridiculously-priced dental insurance we have through the fire department.  Rick's retired, so we pay $1,107 per month for our health insurance, and about $90 per month is dental and vision.  Rick had Lasik surgery and doesn't need glasses, and I go once every two years.  Each time we get a cleaning, we pay $110 on our own.  The insurance picks up about $10.  I have had one cavity in 20 years.  I am fed up with our dental insurance.  Our vision insurance is also a rip, but I don't know the breakdown, as those are together.


You are paying over 1k a year on dental insurance.  You are better off buying a discount dental plan for the family  (probably 1 -200 per year) that basically gives you access to insurance company negotiated rates without actually having any coverage, or negotiating a cash discount with your dentist yourself.  Put the extra "premium" savings in a savings account and let it build over time. A lot needs to go wrong for you to be spending 1k/year on dental. 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N910A using Tapatalk


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## Jason245 (Feb 16, 2017)

Brett said:


> I agree with other posters, dental insurance doesn't make financial sense
> but paying over $1,000 for health insurance for two people  - that sounds crazy high
> but then maybe you don't have "affordable' subsidized health insurance soon to be repealed and replaced with a fantastic "great" health insurance


Health insurance is a double edged sword with lots of caviots. .. medical bills for my simple family of 4 run over 10k per year(after insurance negotiated discount) between normal doctor visits, drugs etc.. they keep raising prices for even simple procedures... fortunately, my insurance covers most of the bills and my out of pocket is about a tenth of whatever the insurance pays (which is usually more than my premium and even my employers portion of premium... (whole other discussion cause they are self insured ) .)

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## WinniWoman (Feb 16, 2017)

Jason245 said:


> You are paying over 1k a year on dental insurance.  You are better off buying a discount dental plan for the family  (probably 1 -200 per year) that basically gives you access to insurance company negotiated rates without actually having any coverage, or negotiating a cash discount with your dentist yourself.  Put the extra "premium" savings in a savings account and let it build over time. A lot needs to go wrong for you to be spending 1k/year on dental.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N910A using Tapatalk



She said they pay $90 for BOTH dental and vision. Their HEALTH insurance is $1107 per month.


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## dioxide45 (Feb 16, 2017)

mpumilia said:


> She said they pay $175 annually. not monthly. Their HEALTH insurance is $1107 per month.


That was me paying $175 a year. rickandcindy23 is paying $90 a month for vision and dental.


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## WinniWoman (Feb 16, 2017)

dioxide45 said:


> That was me paying $175 a year. rickandcindy23 is paying $90 a month for vision and dental.




Thanks. I realized it and edited. I am sleepy! LOL!


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