# We rescind, [a sampler Pkg.] Diamond refuses, we point to the contract. What will happen now?



## bobpark56

From Diamond:  
“Unfortunately, there is no rescission period for this contract and they are non-cancellable once finalised. As such we are not able to cancel this contract and it will remain active on your account.”

We replied:  
“The paragraph at the top of page 5 of our contract says this:  "You may cancel this contract without any penalty or obligation within 7 calendar days after the date You sign this contract."

And the final statement in the contract says this:  "THIS IS A TIMESHARE SOLICITATION. Any purchaser has, under then law, a seven-day right of rescission of any time sharing sales contract.

Would you please tell us why these parts of the contract do not apply?”

So, what now? Will there be foot-dragging? If so, how best to continue?

(Diamond’s reply came from from England, though we sent our rescission notice to Las Vegas, as specified by the contract.)


----------



## dougp26364

Did you purchase a sampler package or a timeshare? Timeshare purchases have a “cooling off” period, samplers typically do not.


----------



## Passepartout

And if it is a resale (or foreclosure, etc) in Nevada, there is no rescission.


----------



## TUGBrian

long as you have the contract with that in it, you are golden.

id take a copy of that and send it in response, after all whats good for the goose is whats good for the gander!  there are certainly limitless examples of folks who were told one thing in a DRI presentation then later told that was incorrect and the only thing that matters is whats in the sales contract they signed!

would also cancel any credit cards used to pay a deposit or the purchase price, and dispute said charges immediately should they continue to claim it cannot be cancelled.

would also suggest informing them that should they continue to refuse your legal rescission you would report them to your state AG's office as well as the nevada state AGs office, BBB, facebook pages, etc etc pointing out how DRI is refusing to honor a signed sales contract.


----------



## bobpark56

A poster on facebook provided me a pointer to ConsumerAdvocacy@DiamondResorts.com. I have sent them copies of the correspondence so far. Perhaps this may help.

FWIW, this was a Sampler purchase.


----------



## ccwu

Just follow the page and instruction, mail a copy of the page and send to the corporate address in the page from Fed Ex or UPS with track number. You are done. You have proof for sending rescind letter. Never deal with sales location. Always with corporate. We rescind a few times and never had problem. 

Who send your the From Diamond letter?


----------



## AwayWeGo

bobpark56 said:


> FWIW, this was a Sampler purchase.


Rescission right that applies to timeshare purchases may or may not apply to sales of samplers, trial packages, & various try-before-you-buy arrangements.  

Regardless, good luck. 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## bobpark56

AwayWeGo said:


> Rescission right that applies to timeshare purchases may or may not apply to sales of samplers, trial packages, & various try-before-you-buy arrangements.
> 
> Regardless, good luck.
> 
> -- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


Alan...are you suggesting that the contract language I quoted in my original posting may not apply?


----------



## bobpark56

ccwu said:


> Just follow the page and instruction, mail a copy of the page and send to the corporate address in the page from Fed Ex or UPS with track number. You are done. You have proof for sending rescind letter. Never deal with sales location. Always with corporate. We rescind a few times and never had problem.
> 
> Who send your the From Diamond letter?


Pease see the original posting. We rescinded by certified mail (USPS) to DRI's Las Vegas Office, per instructions in the contract. The responding email came from England.


----------



## AwayWeGo

bobpark56 said:


> are you suggesting that the contract language I quoted in my original posting may not apply?


Seems possible.  Otherwise, why would the timeshare folks have said there's no rescission period for this contract and it's non-cancellable once finalized ?

Even if that were the case, that other contradictory boilerplate ("you may cancel this contract without any penalty or obligation within 7 calendar days after the date you sign this contract"), even if they didn't intend to include that (i.e., if it's meant to go with timeshare sales, not sampler deals), sounds like you might have an out. 

Good luck & let us know how it comes out. 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## pedro47

Suggestion only, maybe the OP needs to show his documentation to a lawyer for a professional legal opinion.


----------



## dioxide45

AwayWeGo said:


> Rescission right that applies to timeshare purchases may or may not apply to sales of samplers, trial packages, & various try-before-you-buy arrangements.
> 
> Regardless, good luck.
> 
> -- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


Regardless if one applies. If it is in the contract, it is in the contract!


----------



## vacationtime1

dioxide45 said:


> Regardless if one applies. If it is in the contract, it is in the contract!



+1

The goose/gander rule applies.


----------



## Steve Fatula

Actually, we still couldn't say for sure. It could be the section the wording was in only applies in certain cases, it may have wording to that effect. Maybe that section is TS purchases only for example. I would do as suggested and send copy hi-lited and have them state why it does not apply. Failing that, attorney should review it. Excerpts from a contract can be very misleading at times.


----------



## TUGBrian

I think it would be extremely difficult for any timeshare company to attempt to make a legal claim that a rescission clause in a signed contract did not apply to said signed contract.

and certainly they wouldnt try to fight that battle in court with a lawyer, vs just letting the owner out if enough stink was made about it.


----------



## DeniseM

> FWIW, this was a Sampler purchase.



I don't think _timeshare_ recission rules apply to sampler pkgs.


----------



## tschwa2

I think in some states sampler type products are required rescission periods and some states not.  Diamond (at least in the past) abides by the requirements and has different contracts when the rescission does and does not apply.  I don't know whether they accidentally gave out the wrong contract in this case (too bad for them if they did) or if the England office didn't realize that the rescission period applied in this case or if they knew and were trying to make the OP think he couldn't rescind when he could and would feign ignorance or a mistake if pushed back.  I think the OP will prevail and might as well dispute the charges with the CC company now if paid that way.  It may take a few more letters to Diamond to both offices but I wouldn't go to the expense of hiring a lawyer yet.


----------



## taterhed

There are a billion posts about this issue on the interwebs.  (information below is anecdotal from the internet and should not be taken as fact)

It also appears that Diamond has several different contracts for samplers; some indicate "NO CANCELLATION or RESCISSION for SAMPLER PACKAGES"  while others indicate rescind with "3 days" and some that apparently contain the standard "10 days" language that you've suggested.  One of the "3 day" contracts indicated it was a Diamond "multi-state contract."

So, I'm not sure what to tell you. *  But,  READ THIS THREAD!!     https://www.tugbbs.com/forums/index.php?threads/sampler-just-purchased-in-arizona.261944/

At least one person has been successful in rescinding a sampler package purchased in NV.   This is the OP's summary post:  https://www.tugbbs.com/forums/index...rchased-in-arizona.261944/page-3#post-2059063*


----------



## dougp26364

Without seeing ALL the language in a contract it’s really difficult to give an informed and completely accurate opinion.

If it’s in the contract I would like to think you have a better than even chance to rescind. If Nevada has a state law and you’ve complied, or at least made a reasonable effort to comply given the instructions you received, then I’d say you have a better than even chance. If this is a standard contract with addendum that legally negates certain sections within the allowable scope of the law, you’re likely screwed.

Keep fighting. At this point you have nothing to lose.


----------



## Passepartout

I recall that Nevada Real Estate governing authority exempted Samplers, resales and such from rescission rules, but as said above, if it's in the contract, it rules.

You may prevail, but it might not be worth the cost. Be prepared to play hardball.

Best wishes

Jim


----------



## DRIless

I'm not a lawyer and I do not play a lawyer on TUG.  A SAMPLER PACKAGE is not a timeshare purchase and the laws for timeshare purchase do not apply.  None of us except the OP has seen his/her contract, and his/her quotes are most certainly accurate but taken out of context.  We can't know what the rest of the (possibly generic) contract says.  From experience, I know that the laws for timeshare do not apply to the purchase of pre-paid vacations such as a SAMPLER PACKAGE.  I also have experience with DRI's legal team and they know what their contract says and how it would stand up in court.  My guess is that there's more verbiage that negates the recission info when it's a SAMPLER PACKAGE.  My advice to the OP is to enjoy his/her vacations. 






bobpark56 said:


> A poster on facebook provided me a pointer to ConsumerAdvocacy@DiamondResorts.com. I have sent them copies of the correspondence so far. Perhaps this may help.
> 
> FWIW, this was a Sampler purchase.





bobpark56 said:


> Alan...are you suggesting that the contract language I quoted in my original posting may not apply?





dioxide45 said:


> Regardless if one applies. If it is in the contract, it is in the contract!





Steve Fatula said:


> Actually, we still couldn't say for sure. It could be the section the wording was in only applies in certain cases, it may have wording to that effect. Maybe that section is TS purchases only for example. I would do as suggested and send copy hi-lited and have them state why it does not apply. Failing that, attorney should review it. Excerpts from a contract can be very misleading at times.





TUGBrian said:


> I think it would be extremely difficult for any timeshare company to attempt to make a legal claim that a rescission clause in a signed contract did not apply to said signed contract.
> 
> and certainly they wouldnt try to fight that battle in court with a lawyer, vs just letting the owner out if enough stink was made about it.


----------



## bnoble

Passepartout said:


> as said above, if it's in the contract, it rules.


But, as DRIless notes above, we haven't read the entirety of the contract. There may be other language within it that restricts that application to a full purchase, not the sampler package.

OP: You would do well to get a competent lawyer to review the contract.


----------



## clifffaith

FWIW, we rescinded a Diamond Sampler in person two days after we purchased it. Helps when using the words "lies" and "fraud". (Ours was purchased after a marathon five hour sales meeting several weeks before we found TUG.


----------



## bobpark56

Update: We received this email today:
"Dear Mr Park,

I can confirm that your earlier email was received and after checking this with our contracts department I can confirm that you are correct in stating that there is a 7 day rescission period.

You will shortly be provided with the cancellation paperwork for this agreement.

Kind regards
Russell Elliot"

Good news, though it seems we still have a hoop or two to jump through.


----------



## taterhed

bobpark56 said:


> Update: We received this email today:
> "Dear Mr Park,
> 
> I can confirm that your earlier email was received and after checking this with our contracts department I can confirm that you are correct in stating that there is a 7 day rescission period.
> 
> You will shortly be provided with the cancellation paperwork for this agreement.
> 
> Kind regards
> Russell Elliot"
> 
> Good news, though it seems we still have a hoop or two to jump through.




Congratulations!

Sounds like a case of 'wrong form'


----------



## VacationForever

A case of perserverance wins!


----------



## Steve Fatula

It really does sound like their mistake, wrong form. Which is good for you. Good thing you didn't just give up and asked on TUG.


----------



## TUGBrian

outstanding!  congrats on standing your ground and getting it cancelled!


----------



## nuwermj

clifffaith said:


> FWIW, we rescinded a Diamond Sampler in person two days after we purchased it. Helps when using the words "lies" and "fraud". (Ours was purchased after a marathon five hour sales meeting several weeks before we found TUG.



If I recall correctly, Faith, you purchased the sampler in Californian. Is that correct?


----------



## moonstone

bobpark56 said:


> Update: We received this email today:
> "Dear Mr Park,
> 
> I can confirm that your earlier email was received and after checking this with our contracts department I can confirm that you are correct in stating that there is a 7 day rescission period.
> 
> *You will shortly be provided with the cancellation paperwork for this agreement.*
> 
> Kind regards
> Russell Elliot"
> 
> Good news, though it seems we still have a hoop or two to jump through.




I hope they are emailing the forms & not sending by snail mail so they arrive after the recession period has passed!
Time is of the essence! 

~Diane


----------



## DRIless

taterhed said:


> Congratulations!
> 
> Sounds like a case of 'wrong form'


Good job, I think I agree, some heads may roll in their closing department!


bobpark56 said:


> Update: We received this email today:
> "Dear Mr Park,
> 
> I can confirm that your earlier email was received and after checking this with our contracts department I can confirm that you are correct in stating that there is a 7 day rescission period.
> 
> You will shortly be provided with the cancellation paperwork for this agreement.
> 
> Kind regards
> Russell Elliot"
> 
> Good news, though it seems we still have a hoop or two to jump through.


----------



## vacationhopeful

DRIless .. in my experience SELDOM do heads roll in the timeshare closing departments. Not because they are NOT round, but because it is a business where HIGHLY skilled sales persons easily get measured on PRODUCTION quotes ... SOLD products. The timeshare sales person gets a commission, the sales manager gets a cut PLUS a proformance bonus AND within a week or 2, the ENTIRE resort guest population is a new CROP of smucks. 

It is a SOUND BYTE ... wait a month and call the sales office, and ask when the 'smuck' is working as you are now ready to buy. Be sure to USE a fake call back phone number (I have a "minute" phone I use for calls I might need to get but don't want to REALLY answer).


----------



## dioxide45

vacationhopeful said:


> DRIless .. in my experience SELDOM do heads roll in the timeshare closing departments. Not because they are NOT round, but because it is a business where HIGHLY skilled sales persons easily get measured on PRODUCTION quotes ... SOLD products. The timeshare sales person gets a commission, the sales manager gets a cut PLUS a proformance bonus AND within a week or 2, the ENTIRE resort guest population is a new CROP of smucks.
> 
> It is a SOUND BYTE ... wait a month and call the sales office, and ask when the 'smuck' is working as you are now ready to buy. Be sure to USE a fake call back phone number (I have a "minute" phone I use for calls I might need to get but don't want to REALLY answer).


Exactly, they aren't going to be that concerned with the loss of a couple thousand from the sampler package and their commission on those is probably minimal.


----------



## clifffaith

nuwermj said:


> If I recall correctly, Faith, you purchased the sampler in Californian. Is that correct?


Yes, at Riviera Beach resort in the San Juan Capistrano area.


----------



## nuwermj

nuwermj said:


> If I recall correctly, Faith, you purchased the sampler in Californian. Is that correct?





clifffaith said:


> Yes, at Riviera Beach resort in the San Juan Capistrano area.



California law requires a recession period for sampler type packages.


----------



## bobpark56

TUGBrian said:


> outstanding!  congrats on standing your ground and getting it cancelled!


Thanks, but it's not a done deal yet. We have yet to deal with the form(s) they are sending us. At least meeting the rescission deadline is no longer an issue.


----------



## Xan

moonstone said:


> I hope they are emailing the forms & not sending by snail mail so they arrive after the recession period has passed!
> Time is of the essence!
> 
> ~Diane



DRI will snail mail you all correspondence.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Xan

moonstone said:


> I hope they are emailing the forms & not sending by snail mail so they arrive after the recession period has passed!
> Time is of the essence!
> 
> ~Diane



Also be prepared for them to sell your phone number. I know from experience!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Steve Fatula

Xan said:


> Also be prepared for them to sell your phone number. I know from experience!



This is true! Staying at a Diamond right now, sadly, in need of refurbishment. They seem to virtually abandon some resorts. What's amazing is all the 5 star FB reviews, makes me wonder if they are from real people. I've stayed at a good one before too. But it's ok, plan on being out every day anyway.


----------



## youppi

Steve Fatula said:


> This is true! Staying at a Diamond right now, sadly, in need of refurbishment. They seem to virtually abandon some resorts. What's amazing is all the 5 star FB reviews, makes me wonder if they are from real people. I've stayed at a good one before too. But it's ok, plan on being out every day anyway.


You say that you are at a DRI resort at this moment and in your signature you say that you are at Diamond Club Calypso.
So, if you are at Diamond Club Calypso then you are not at a DRI resort but at a https://www.resort-solutions.co.uk/


----------



## DRIless

Xan said:


> Also be prepared for them to sell your phone number. I know from experience!
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


  I personally believe it's renegade employees that do this and not DRI itself.


----------



## Steve Fatula

youppi said:


> You say that you are at a DRI resort at this moment and in your signature you say that you are at Diamond Club Calypso.
> So, if you are at Diamond Club Calypso then you are not at a DRI resort but at a https://www.resort-solutions.co.uk/



Thank you, you are correct! For some reason, they have 3 resorts here named Dismond with a diamond logo and it made me think the resort company. Glad I was wrong. So, one of the 3 is actually Diamond it appears, Club de Carmen, the other 2 are not (Calypso and Maritima)

My phone number comment stands though as they did this to me after a presentation. There is a website devoted to extracting oneself from Diamond lists, robocallers, etc.


----------



## dougp26364

bobpark56 said:


> Update: We received this email today:
> "Dear Mr Park,
> 
> I can confirm that your earlier email was received and after checking this with our contracts department I can confirm that you are correct in stating that there is a 7 day rescission period.
> 
> You will shortly be provided with the cancellation paperwork for this agreement.
> 
> Kind regards
> Russell Elliot"
> 
> Good news, though it seems we still have a hoop or two to jump through.



Outstanding! Glad it came out in your favor. But keep all correspondence......just in case they forget. DRI has a history of not being very prompt, "misplacing" paperwork et....


----------



## quikitikit

In 2013 we attended Diamond update in Lake Tahoe, CA and bought Sampler package offered of 15,000 points for $2,295 when we didn’t buy points for the points program (we own one week bought on EBay).  Our sampler had a recession clause and we sent the recession within the 7 days certified mail.  No problem!  Always know that you have right to o cancel before signing.  Congratulations on your recession!


----------



## taterhed

quikitikit said:


> In 2013 we attended Diamond update in Lake Tahoe, CA and bought Sampler package offered of 15,000 points for $2,295 when we didn’t buy points for the points program (we own one week bought on EBay).  Our sampler had a recession clause and we sent the recession within the 7 days certified mail.  No problem!  Always know that you have right to o cancel before signing.  Congratulations on your recession!



Just for the sake of posterity......and anyone who might read this, but not fully.....

All state laws concerning rescinding timeshares (etc...) are NOT the same.

Nevada has a very short rescission period and, like some other states, does NOT recognize a legal requirement for a mandatory rescission period for SAMPLER or VACATION packages.  Some states do....

So, your words "...know that you have a right...."   should be '...know what your rights are...for that state....for that product/contract..'
It's confusing, isn't it?


----------



## bobpark56

Closure: A Sampler refund of $3995 was posted to our account today, 19 days after DRI acknowledged receipt of our certified rescission request. We purchased the Sampler at Kaanapali Beach Club on Maui.

For what it's worth, there was nothing confrontational or accusatory in any of our communications with DRI. We simply stated our desire to rescind and pointed to the language in the Sampler contract. I did nudge DRI politely 2 days ago, which may have help bring this to closure. 

Our reason for buying the Sampler was that we thought we could use it effectively in conjunction with our existing points, and that back-to-back stays would be permitted. We had been happy with 2 prior Samplers and felt we received our money's worth there. On reading the fine print after returning to our room, we found that back-to-back bookings were now prohibited. We received verbal assurance that this would not be a problem, but could not get anything in writing. We also found that the cost in points for staying at several of the participating resorts was significantly higher that what our weeks cost us at KBC, meaning that the Sampler's 20,000 points would really not go all that far.

Moral: Read ALL the fine print before signing and learn what it costs in points to stay at the resorts of interest, else check for the right to rescind.


----------



## AwayWeGo

We came _this close_ 1 time to buying a DRI sample deal -- had even signed the check & slid it across the table.  We pulled it back when the sales person corrected our spoken assumption that we could use sample points the same way club members use theirs -- e.g., for multiple last-minute discounted reservations, etc.  When it was explained that sample-deal points can only be used for regular, full-cost reservations for whatever happens to be available at the time, we said we're not interested & took back the check.  A close call -- _whew !
_
Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## izzymail

AwayWeGo said:


> We came _this close_ 1 time to buying a DRI sample deal -- had even signed the check & slid it across the table.  We pulled it back when the sales person corrected our spoken assumption that we could use sample points the same way club members use theirs -- e.g., for multiple last-minute discounted reservations, etc.  When it was explained that sample-deal points can only be used for regular, full-cost reservations for whatever happens to be available at the time, we said we're not interested & took back the check.  A close call -- _whew !
> _
> Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​



First, based on my experience I am impressed that the representative corrected your misunderstanding. Unfortunately, this was probably ultimately an unsuccessful individual as many will gladly mislead you to get the sale and commission. Unfortunately it seems that in many industries its is still more lucrative to have a bad product with an agresssive sales strategy, then to just have a superior product.


----------



## RX8

AwayWeGo said:


> We came _this close_ 1 time to buying a DRI sample deal -- had even signed the check & slid it across the table.  We pulled it back when the *sales person corrected our spoken assumption* that we could use sample points the same way club members use theirs -- e.g., for multiple last-minute discounted reservations, etc.  When it was explained that sample-deal points can only be used for regular, full-cost reservations for whatever happens to be available at the time, we said we're not interested & took back the check.  A close call -- _whew !
> _
> Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​



Nice of that sales person to inform you but probably got reprimanded for costing a sale.


----------

