# 2017 HGVC Resorts with the lowest MFs



## GT75 (Dec 17, 2016)

I wanted to know which HGVC Resorts have the lowest MFs.    To me anyway, this is useful information if wanting to make a purchase purely for points.     I used the MFs currently being reported in the sticky with what I believe the best point value possible at the resort.   Below are the top 15.





If you see anything that I have missed or mis-calculated, please let me know and I will update.


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## SmithOp (Dec 17, 2016)

Thanks for putting this together.  It would be interesting to know how many of these are still being propped up by developer subsidies, Ocean 22 for sure since its the newest.


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## dioxide45 (Dec 17, 2016)

You have a typo in the Resort name for item #3.


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## GT75 (Dec 17, 2016)

dioxide45 said:


> You have a typo in the Resort name for item #3.



Thanks,    not my strong suite.     I will fix next update.


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## silentg (Dec 17, 2016)

What is your opinion on Reserves?


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## buzglyd (Dec 17, 2016)

SmithOp said:


> Thanks for putting this together.  It would be interesting to know how many of these are still being propped up by developer subsidies, Ocean 22 for sure since its the newest.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk



I would bet Italy is as well. Those are some pretty low fees.


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## CalGalTraveler (Dec 17, 2016)

Italy may be affected by the exchange rate.  We just returned from Canada and I had to keep reminding myself that everything costs almost 25% less in US dollar terms.


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## Jason245 (Dec 18, 2016)

GT75 said:


> I wanted to know which HGVC Resorts have the lowest MFs.    To me anyway, this is useful information if wanting to make a purchase purely for points.     I used the MFs currently being reported in the sticky with what I believe the best point value possible at the resort.   Below are the top 15.
> 
> View attachment 3062
> If you see anything that I have missed or mis-calculated, please let me know and I will update.


I would put an astrix on all the non USD paid MF. 

Right now the USD is at or near historic highs against multiple foreign currencies including being at near parity with the Euro.


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## 1Kflyerguy (Dec 18, 2016)

SmithOp said:


> Thanks for putting this together.  It would be interesting to know how many of these are still being propped up by developer subsidies, Ocean 22 for sure since its the newest.
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk



The budget included with my MF statement for Kings Land shows a developer subsidy.  That is listed as one year agreement that automatically renews until the developer cancels it.  

I don't have access to the other budgets, but my guess is that all of the HGVC resorts that still have active sales, and development potential get a subsidy.  I am thinking the LV Strip and Parc Soleil , that don't any current construction, but have space / dormant plans for more units get a subsidy.


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## GT75 (Dec 18, 2016)

1Kflyerguy said:


> The budget included with my MF statement for Kings Land shows a developer subsidy.  That is listed as one year agreement that automatically renews until the developer cancels it.



Is this for all 3 phases at KL?


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## GT75 (Dec 18, 2016)

Jason245 said:


> Right now the USD is at or near historic highs against multiple foreign currencies including being at near parity with the Euro.



I agree with your statement.    It seems like the 1 Euro was worth about $1.5 just two-three years ago.     This is off my memory.


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## 1Kflyerguy (Dec 18, 2016)

GT75 said:


> Is this for all 3 phases at KL?



I believe so, it shows under the HOA income section, with no breakdown by phase.


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## GT75 (Dec 18, 2016)

1Kflyerguy said:


> I believe so, it shows under the HOA income section, with no breakdown by phase.


  Can you provide the percentage of total being subsidy (or you can PM me the budget report)?        I am curious because I have a purchase in progress for KL Phase 1.   I purchased because of low cost and low MFs.     So I would like to prepare myself for a possible MF percent increase sometime in the future.
Thanks


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## GT75 (Dec 18, 2016)

silentg said:


> What is your opinion on Reserves?


    Of course Reserves are a way to save for future projects at the resort such as painting, roofing, furniture/suite updates.      It is a way to help prevent special assessments on MFs when they become necessary.   I personally like to have a fairly steady MF cost from year-to-year.      That ,for example, is how we have pay our electric bill each month for many years.   

I am of course no expert myself on timeshare MFs.    My only reason for putting the list together in the first place was to look for the resorts with the lostest MF costs.  This to me should be a consideration in purchase of any TS.

Do you have more to your question or maybe an opinion of this subject?


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## SmithOp (Dec 18, 2016)

GT75 said:


> Can you provide the percentage of total being subsidy (or you can PM me the budget report)?        I am curious because I have a purchase in progress for KL Phase 1.   I purchased because of low cost and low MFs.     So I would like to prepare myself for a possible MF percent increase sometime in the future.
> Thanks



Here is the Revenue section, the total balances with Expenses.  I expect it to continue for some time since they have 5 phases planned.


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## GT75 (Dec 18, 2016)

SmithOp said:


> Here is the Revenue section, the total balances with Expenses.  I expect it to continue for some time since they have 5 phases planned.



Thanks SmithOp.     I am always thankful for the information that I have learned here.      I didn't know about the 5 phases for KL either.


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## SmithOp (Dec 19, 2016)

GT75 said:


> Thanks SmithOp.     I am always thankful for the information that I have learned here.      I didn't know about the 5 phases for KL either.



Here's an old pic of the Waikoloa area thats been floating around here for quite some time, its been discussed a few times.  KL will eventually fill in all the way to the golf clubhouse on both sides of the road.  Marriott will be converting their property to timeshare, and Hilton is also converting the Ocean Tower at the hotel.  Its becoming the Hawaii version of Orlando with all the timeshare development , expecting huge growth from the Asian market. Unlike Maui, the BI is timeshare friendly.

There is a housing development under construction to the north of KL phase 1, that entrance to the resort was recently opened.







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## GT75 (Dec 19, 2016)




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## Cyberc (Dec 20, 2016)

I just looked up the financial report for 2015 @ HGVC at the boulevard.

That shows that subsidy of 374,538$ was given but also 122,037$ was provided for replacements.





*
NOTE 9 - RELATED PARTY TRANSACTIONS (Continued)

*
The Developer’s obligation under this subsidy agreement for the year ended December 31, 2015, was $122,037 for replacement. As of December 31, 2015, $4,065 was due to the Developer for overpayment of assessments. As of December 31, 2015, the Developer owned 746 ownership interests based on year 2015 occupancy.


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## MattnTricia (Dec 29, 2016)

GT75 said:


> I wanted to know which HGVC Resorts have the lowest MFs.    To me anyway, this is useful information if wanting to make a purchase purely for points.     I used the MFs currently being reported in the sticky with what I believe the best point value possible at the resort.   Below are the top 15.
> 
> View attachment 3067
> 
> If you see anything that I have missed or mis-calculated, please let me know and I will update.




Coylumbridge - I own several units and the average for 7000 points was $640 US. This included my credit card fees. All of my weeks were 7000 point weeks.


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## GT75 (Dec 29, 2016)

Update to spreadsheet!!!!!


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## Sky313 (Dec 29, 2016)

My coylumbridge statement for 2017 for a 2 BR that i recently bought resale is 561 pounds => $689 based on the low exchange rate today 1 pound=1.23 dollars (not including credit card fees). Even if Mattnday's is lower,  #2 on the spreadsheet is likely inaccurate at $578.56


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## CanuckTravlr (Dec 30, 2016)

A great and useful idea!

I want to add a couple of comments (it's the accountant in me!! (lol):  Your ratio calculation is correct in the final column.  However, the final column should properly be titled "MFs/Point", since you are measuring the maintenance fee costs divided by the points (for a ratio of the MFs per point), not the ratio of the points per MF dollar.  You are not alone...many people get the naming of ratios reversed.

Also, you have not included the Ocean 22 1-bdrm plus unit on your list.  With 2017 maintenance fees of $719.23 and points of 6200, it works out to a ratio of .1160, which places it after the Ocean 22 2-bdrm plus, but just edging out the 3-bdrm plus.


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## GT75 (Dec 30, 2016)

CanuckTravlr said:


> A great and useful idea!
> 
> I want to add a couple of comments (it's the accountant in me!! (lol):  Your ratio calculation is correct in the final column.  However, the final column should properly be titled "MFs/Point", since you are measuring the maintenance fee costs divided by the points (for a ratio of the MFs per point), not the ratio of the points per MF dollar.  You are not alone...many people get the naming of ratios reversed.
> 
> Also, you have not included the Ocean 22 1-bdrm plus unit on your list.  With 2017 maintenance fees of $719.23 and points of 6200, it works out to a ratio of .1160, which places it after the Ocean 22 2-bdrm plus, but just edging out the 3-bdrm plus.



Thanks for the comments.   

It has been updated.


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## alexb (Jan 4, 2017)

Sky313 said:


> My coylumbridge statement for 2017 for a 2 BR that i recently bought resale is 561 pounds => $689 based on the low exchange rate today 1 pound=1.23 dollars (not including credit card fees). Even if Mattnday's is lower,  #2 on the spreadsheet is likely inaccurate at $578.56


My fees for 2 bedroom are 480 pounds for 2017


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## Sky313 (Jan 5, 2017)

alexb said:


> My fees for 2 bedroom are 480 pounds for 2017



Thanks for clarifying.  Didn't realize they had different MFs


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## alexb (Jan 5, 2017)

I think phase 1 is cheaper


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## Cyberc (Jan 6, 2017)

GT75 said:


> I wanted to know which HGVC Resorts have the lowest MFs.    To me anyway, this is useful information if wanting to make a purchase purely for points.     I used the MFs currently being reported in the sticky with what I believe the best point value possible at the resort.   Below are the top 15.
> 
> View attachment 3067
> 
> If you see anything that I have missed or mis-calculated, please let me know and I will update.



Hi

Since I'm located in Europe it would be nice to know how much the MF is in Eur for number 1+2 in the list. 

TIA. 

Regards


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## GT75 (Jan 6, 2017)

Cyberc said:


> Since I'm located in Europe it would be nice to know how much the MF is in Eur for number 1+2 in the list.



The MFs for all of the Hilton properties that everyone has given us are located in the 2017 HGVC MFs Sticky.   These were given in Euros.
(http://tugbbs.com/forums/index.php?...ations-club-2017-maintenance-fee-list.247165/)


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## GT75 (Jan 6, 2017)

*Update to the Spreadsheet !!!!!!*


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## CanuckTravlr (Jan 7, 2017)

Thanks for all the work in keeping this spreadsheet updated, Gary!  I just noticed two items that have probably occurred as you have updated the chart.  I am assuming #2 (Coylumbridge) should probably have a reference to "Pound" in the non-USD column, and by the same token, there should be no reference to "Pound" for #12 (Ocean Oak).


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## GT75 (Jan 8, 2017)

Thanks to CanuckTravlr.    Update to list!!!!!


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## DazedandConfused (Apr 2, 2017)

can you expand this list to the top 30 to include more resorts?


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## GT75 (Apr 2, 2017)

DazedandConfused said:


> can you expand this list to the top 30 to include more resorts?



Let me work on it.     It might take a few days to develop.


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## GT75 (Apr 2, 2017)

I added all of the MFs now to a database and sorted by lowest MFs per points.   Here is the top 30.


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## GT75 (Apr 3, 2017)

Here is the complete spreadsheet.     I know that we are missing information because not all HGVC resorts have been posted.   I also tried to properly assign the correct number of points.       I usually only selected Platinum weeks since this give the lowest MF/point ratio.


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## Sandy VDH (Apr 3, 2017)

GT75 said:


> I usually only selected Platinum weeks since this give the lowest MF/point ratio.




That goes without saying.  But I guess it is possible that MFs at some of these really low resorts (again Euro to $ conversion aside) might even squeak by with a gold week that have a better $/MF ration that some other resorts.  But I assume for the chart you only converted Platinum weeks, as they get the best bang for the buck.


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## BocaBoy (Apr 3, 2017)

Even taking into account that there are some developer subsidies, these Hilton maintenance fees are generally a LOT lower than the out-of-control fees at Marriott Vacation Club.


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## GT75 (Apr 3, 2017)

BocaBoy said:


> Even taking into account that there are some developer subsidies, these Hilton maintenance fees are generally a LOT lower than the out-of-control fees at Marriott Vacation Club.



Thanks, that is useful information to know from a reference standpoint.


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## Seagila (Apr 3, 2017)

Thanks for all your work putting together such a helpful resource.  Just noticed that the GPX (California) properties do not include the real estate tax in their respective MFs while most (all?) of the other properties do.  This would affect their MFs-to-points ratio when RE taxes are added and potentially change their ordinal positions on the list.

Nevertheless, great job!


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## GT75 (Apr 3, 2017)

Seagila said:


> Just noticed that the GPX (California) properties do not include the real estate tax in their respective MFs while most (all?) of the other properties do.  This would affect their MFs-to-points ratio when RE taxes are added and potentially change their ordinal positions on the list.



Yes, that should be included or at least noted.      Do you happen to have that information?


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## Seagila (Apr 3, 2017)

I unfortunately do not own a GPX-HGVC property, so do not have that information.  Perhaps the GPX owners who provided the MFs in the Stickies have the RE taxes on their statements?


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## GT75 (Apr 3, 2017)

GT75 said:


> Yes, that should be included or at least noted.      Do you happen to have that information?



Noted in the spreadsheet that the California properties don't include the Property Taxes.


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## GT75 (Apr 5, 2017)

Update to the top 30.     Vilamoura MFs aren't collected until the middle of the year.





The complete 2017 Points vs. MF db


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## RX8 (Aug 3, 2017)

FYI - Property tax for Grand Pacific Palisades is not billed separately and is in fact included in the MF.


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## GT75 (Aug 3, 2017)

RX8 said:


> FYI - Property tax for Grand Pacific Palisades is not billed separately and is in fact included in the MF.



Would that also mean that the property taxes is included for all GPX?


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## RX8 (Aug 3, 2017)

I'm pretty sure that is true for Seapointe and Marbrisa as well.


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## GT75 (Aug 3, 2017)

OK, thanks.      Updated table.


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## CalGalTraveler (Aug 4, 2017)

GT75 Love the spreadsheet.  If you haven't done so can you add this to the maintenance fee sticky?


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## GT75 (Aug 4, 2017)

CalGalTraveler said:


> GT75 Love the spreadsheet. If you haven't done so can you add this to the maintenance fee sticky?






johnf0614 said:


> Editing this 2017mf thread to include all the HGVC resorts for reference! (shamelessly stealing the work of SUEDONJ here  )
> 
> 
> ** Please limit this thread to only the MF specifics and take discussions/commentary to the discussion boards. Thank you!*
> ...



Already there (maybe just not so obvious), but thanks for asking.      I plan to layout 2018 MFs a little different with the spreadsheet being the second post of the MF sticky.


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## GM600 (Aug 7, 2017)

GT75 said:


> Update to the top 30.     Vilamoura MFs aren't collected until the middle of the year.
> 
> View attachment 4418


@GT75 
Nice job on the comparison. Always interesting to see what the cheapest MF are. I do have a few observations and suggestions. 

The listings for Marbrisa don't include the property tax portion as noted in post 29 on the MF sticky. I think more accurate fees are posted in post 81. 

Another suggestion would be to convert the non-usd to usd so that you can compare apples to apples. Maybe add another column if that info needs to be included or just note in the Non-USD column that it was converted to USD from XXXX.


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## GT75 (Aug 8, 2017)

GM600 said:


> @GT75
> The listings for Marbrisa don't include the property tax portion as noted in post 29 on the MF sticky. I think more accurate fees are posted in post 81.
> 
> Another suggestion would be to convert the non-usd to usd so that you can compare apples to apples. Maybe add another column if that info needs to be included or just note in the Non-USD column that it was converted to USD from XXXX.



Thanks for the comments.     Update the posting.


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