# HCC announces a price increase - June 2008



## Steamboat Bill (Apr 20, 2008)

For anyone interested in joining High Country Club, a destination club (not a deeded timeshare resort), they just announced an upcoming price increase. This is not a "bait-and switch" marketing gimmick, it is a real announced price increase like they have done regularly for the past three years.

-------------------------

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE

Heath Kirschner, High Country Club
(720) 221-0416
Heath@highcountryclub.com

High Country Club Announces Price Increase Effective June 1, 2008

(Denver, CO) — As Denver-based High Country Club continues to expand their portfolio of luxurious destinations, the company is increasing it's membership pricing effective June 1, 2008. Since inception, High Country Club has become the largest and fastest growing company in the premium segment ($1 million and below in home value) of the destination club industry. The company has grown to over 325 members and 35 properties in some of the most desirable destinations in the world.

Changes effective June 1, 2008 to High Country Club’s membership offering include:

Membership Type
Membership Fee - Annual Dues - Nights of Use

Companion
	$30,000 ($25,000*) - $2,300 ($2,100*) - 7 nights

Associate
	$50,000 ($40,000*) - $4,800 ($4,300*) - 15 nights

Affiliate
	$60,000 ($50,000*) - $7,200 ($6,600*) - 25 nights

Private
	$80,000 ($70,000*) - $9,600 ($9,000*) - 35 nights

Membership Cancellation
	Membership fee is 100% refundable in the first year, 80% refundable thereafter, subject to the Club’s “two-in, one-out” policy.

* Current Pricing
    * Memberships can be upgraded to “family and friends” status for an additional 20% increase in annual dues.
    * Customized plans can be developed outside the current membership offering.

About High Country Club
High Country Club is one of the top destination clubs on the market. A smart choice for the wise decision-maker, High Country Club offers its members multiple vacations in many of the world’s most desirable destinations, all for the price of a single family vacation. To contact a Membership Specialist, please call 866-991-2301. High Country Club is a privately held company founded in September of 2005 and is headquartered in Denver, Colorado.


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## Ken555 (Apr 20, 2008)

Interesting that they feel confident in their product to increase prices at a time of economic uncertainty.


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## Steamboat Bill (Apr 20, 2008)

Ken555 said:


> Interesting that they feel confident in their product to increase prices at a time of economic uncertainty.



They are the still LOWEST priced destination club available.


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## Ken555 (Apr 20, 2008)

True. I speak as someone who decided a while ago HCC wasn't for me. And I see other developers increasing fees, albeit slowly, as well (though not as fast as they did over the last few years, probably due to slowing sales).


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## pwrshift (Apr 20, 2008)

It could easily indicate serious financial difficulties in a private company, especially if they had to take an influx of cash from an 'outside' investor who gave them 2 locations and they still had to have two increases in fees within 7 months!  

My PR experience says this is not a move of 'confidence'.  They had a great price advantage up to Nov07 -- signing up members faster than most other DC's -- and should have stayed there until they signed up another 200+ members to a more meaningful and influential industry level.  IMO they still have a long ways to go to satisfy their member needs for locations and this is just an ill-timed cash grab to pay some bills.  Members might find out how serious a cash crunch it is when it comes to dues renwal time.

At least with public companies you get a chance to see the financial shape of the company, before investing or signing any non-disclosure agreement.


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## Bourne (Apr 20, 2008)

pwrshift said:


> It could easily indicate serious financial difficulties in a private company, especially if they had to take an influx of cash from an 'outside' investor who gave them 2 locations and they still had to have two increases in fees within 7 months!
> 
> My PR experience says this is not a move of 'confidence'.  They had a great price advantage up to Nov07 -- signing up members faster than most other DC's -- and should have stayed there until they signed up another 200+ members to a more meaningful and influential industry level.  IMO they still have a long ways to go to satisfy their member needs for locations and this is just an ill-timed cash grab to pay some bills.  Members might find out how serious a cash crunch it is when it comes to dues renwal time.
> 
> At least with public companies you get a chance to see the financial shape of the company, before investing or signing any non-disclosure agreement.




 . Now I have started enjoying this role. 



pwrshift said:


> It could easily indicate serious financial difficulties in a private company, especially if they had to take an influx of cash from an 'outside' investor who gave them 2 locations and they still had to have two increases in fees within 7 months!
> 
> My PR experience says this is not a move of 'confidence'.  They had a great price advantage up to Nov07 -- signing up members faster than most other DC's -- and should have stayed there until they signed up another 200+ members to a more meaningful and influential industry level.  IMO they still have a long ways to go to satisfy their member needs for locations and this is just an ill-timed cash grab to pay some bills.  Members might find out how serious a cash crunch it is when it comes to dues renwal time.



This is a privately held company. Any increase they do not make while knowing that the market will be able to sustain it is like * leaving money on the table *. 

This is not a company that where dues are billed at specific time for each member. Dues and their renewal periods are based on member's join date. That said, the "period" you mentioned happens every month. And I have not seen any changes.  



> At least with public companies you get a chance to see the financial shape of the company, before investing or signing any non-disclosure agreement.



Phew. I am not defining what a LLC is and its filing requirement.


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## pwrshift (Apr 20, 2008)

Bourne said:


> Any increase they do not make while knowing that the market will be able to sustain it is like *leaving money on the table *.


 
Many would call that private _'greed'_ for instant financial relief and not long term growth.  

Sooner or later the DC market will go public - it's already starting - and private DC's will fall into never never land.


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## vivalour (Apr 20, 2008)

pwrshift said:


> Many would call that private _'greed'_ for instant financial relief and not long term growth.
> .



I beg to differ with your speculations. I was an owner, with partners, of a privately held business, and we increased our rates when we felt truly confident that we could justify the increase -- definitely not for "instant financial relief". Why? 
1. we occupied a niche
2. competitors were charging more for sometimes inferior expertise/service
3. as we grew, our operational costs increased (current technology, rent)
4. our major clients told us what they were prepared to pay for the high level of service that we offered.

There is usually a point of optimal growth for certain types of businesses, and I assume each DC builds this into their model and fees. HCC is only 2 1/2 years old, and states that their goal is to be able to sell memberships at the $100,000 level. So I assume they are on track in moving to their goal, rather than making a cash grab.

IMHO, HCC membership is a deal -- even at the new rates, and I would be quite concerned if they didn't increase rates. I know they run a fairly lean operation, and to me they still look like a value play in the DC industry.


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## Steamboat Bill (Apr 20, 2008)

pwrshift said:


> It could easily indicate serious financial difficulties in a private company, especially if they had to take an influx of cash from an 'outside' investor who gave them 2 locations and they still had to have two increases in fees within 7 months!
> 
> My PR experience says this is not a move of 'confidence'.  They had a great price advantage up to Nov07 -- signing up members faster than most other DC's -- and should have stayed there until they signed up another 200+ members to a more meaningful and influential industry level.  IMO they still have a long ways to go to satisfy their member needs for locations and this is just an ill-timed cash grab to pay some bills.  Members might find out how serious a cash crunch it is when it comes to dues renwal time.
> 
> At least with public companies you get a chance to see the financial shape of the company, before investing or signing any non-disclosure agreement.



This is crazy talk.

1. HCC is NOT in serious financial difficulties. So by this definition,  Marriott will be going bankrupt as they are now charging over $50,000 for one platinum week in a 2 bedroom timeshare in Marco Island.

2. There has NEVER been a bad time to join HCC as the price has been rising about $10k in regular increments every 6-9 months like clockwork. Even so, they are still the LOWEST priced club and can keep raising their fees.

3. A 7 night HCC membership is only $30k, a 15 night membership is $50k ($25k per week), a 25 night membership si $60k and a 35 night membership is $80k ($16k per week!!!). This is the still a better deal than buying a Marriott Orlando 2 bedroom Platinum week directly from Marriott and thousands of people have done that for about $25-30k per week.

4. When PerryM first posted on TUG on July 19, 2006 you could join HCC for 6 weeks for only $30,000 ($5,000 per week!) and everybody posted how that is an unsustainable business model and that this club is doomed. Now that they have raised prices several times, people think is is a "money grab" :annoyed: 

5. Let me put this RUMOR to rest here - ALL CURRENT HCC MEMBERS are LOCKED into their Membership FEES and ANNUAL DUES and their own annual dues can only go up by a percent = CPI + 2-3% depending when they joined. Thus, an existing member will not get hosed like I am getting hosed by Marriott MMC (raised my yearly dues by over 20% in two years). DCs base annual dues on when you join, thus my HCC annual dues will ALWAYS be lower than someone that joined after me.




vivalour said:


> IMHO, HCC membership is a deal -- even at the new rates, and I would be quite concerned if they didn't increased rates. I know they run a fairly lean operation, and to me they still look like a value play in the DC industry.



I agree that HCC is still a bargain compared to any DC and most high-end timeshares.


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## johnmfaeth (Apr 20, 2008)

The DC demographic is not very economically challenged. They are not the overleveraged, credit card lifestyle, subprime types by any stretch.


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## pwrshift (Apr 21, 2008)

I think the only crazy talk on this board comes from the refusal of DC members to look at both sides of the fence and be objective enough to recognize the concerns of people who come to this TUG board because they have not yet joined a DC and may just want to see how they compare to timeshares. In addition, I find the constant promotion of HCC membership over other DC's a little one sided.

TUG members deal with the likes of well structured public companies like Marriott, Four Seasons, Starwood, Hyatt, Hilton, etc. where there are no financial secrets. Every year you can see public info on personal incomes, bonuses, stock options, divisional profit-loss, expansion details, etc. 

But DC's are private companies that depend on other people's membership fees and dues to succeed and don't have to publicly say what they do with your money. For a non-member, *two raises in fees in one year is a little hard to grasp, especially these days.* I suggest that very few of these potential members are in the $500,000 ER membership league and not totally isolated from today's economic concerns.

Nobody here really knows the financial workings of private DC's -- or how much of the increase goes directly into their weekly pay and bonuses. To say otherwise is pure speculation as it's private - not public. *Members don't get quarterly financial reports ... they don't even get quarterly newsletters. *

What surprises me is that everyone here seems blind to the fact disaster could strike any DC and the members would be the last ones to know. Someone has done a real sales job. If Marriott, Starwood, Intrawest and others jump into the DC market, private company financial secrecy will not make the grade -- and then all members might find their refundable membership fees not so available as promised.


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## pwrshift (Apr 21, 2008)

johnmfaeth said:


> The DC demographic is not very economically challenged. They are not the overleveraged, credit card lifestyle, subprime types by any stretch.


 
I think you are correct when looking at the demographics of a Exclusive Resorts member who can afford to risk a $500,000 membership fee ... but there are different levels of DC's. 

http://www.exclusiveresorts.com/#Membership_Plans

I'm quite sure the demographic is quite different for a DC like HCC where their strongest selling point is that their membership fee is about the same price as buying an Marriott Ocean Pointe resale week. Timeshare buyers still seem to be lining up to buy direct from Marriott with a 13.9% interest rate... but I don't think many ER members finance their DC membership. However, HCC will loan you the money to join their DC program. Different strokes.

http://www.highcountryclub.com/membership/Financing.asp


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## Steamboat Bill (Apr 21, 2008)

pwrshift said:


> I think the only crazy talk on this board comes from the refusal of DC members to look at both sides of the fence and be objective enough to recognize the concerns of people who come to this TUG board because they have not yet joined a DC and may just want to see how they compare to timeshares. In addition, I find the constant promotion of HCC membership over other DC's a little one sided.



There is only one reason why HCC is so popular on TUG - they are the only DC that is focused on $1m homes with membership fees that are the same or lower than the top tiered timeshare resorts. Members of Exclusive Resorts (the largest DC) or any other DC that focuses on $3-6m homes are not interested in timeshares and have no desire to participate here.

Also, this forum has members from EIGHT different destination clubs, but the majority are HCC members. If you want a wider spectrum of DC members, you have to visit www.destinationclubforums.com but they are NOT interested in debating the timeshare vs destination club topic. 

You can join HCC today for $40,000 and get 15 nights of use (three potential vacations) in 30 or so home locations that range from $500k-$2.5m and have between 1 and 5 bedrooms. No other timeshare or destination club can offer this much.

I am not taking any hallucinogenic drugs...I just recognize "value" when I see it. Last week I stayed in the DVC Animal Kingdom Lodge GRAND VILLA which is a 3 bedroom, 4 bathroom timeshare that is probably one of the best timeshares in the world, yet (other than the location) it is no where are nice as typical destination club homes.

I am also getting "TIRED" of this constant debate every time I post something on TUG about HCC. In case anyone has not noticed, many people who used to post on this forum has now gone to other forums as every thread on TUG morphs into a "sky is falling" or "you don't own a deed" discussion.

I was the ONE person who started this sub-forum on TUG as I owned well over $100k in timeshares and found the destination club industry fascinating. I originally wanted to join Exclusive Resorts, but felt their fees where too high and their homes were too large for my family of four. Perhaps TUGers can't relate to this, but I did not want my two children to EXPECT every vacation to be in a $4m mansion with 5 bedrooms. It is bad enough when my kids are constantly getting picked up for playdates with friends that ride in Bentley's or going on vacation via their private jets.

HCC represents tremendous value for me and my family and has dramatically changed the way we vacation. I still own DVC, Westgate, and a Marriott timeshare, but I find that I am banking, renting, or giving away my timeshare weeks to family and friends while I enjoy my HCC properties.

I will soon be spending two weeks in Hawaii (Big island and Maui) during June at two incredible HCC properties and I will try to take an excursion to the top of Mauna Kea to see if the sky is really falling.

I think I will call HCC to reserve my golf tee times and pool lounge chairs for Maui...oh I forgot, it is a private 9 hole golf course only for guests at their Maui home and we are the only guests.


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## BocaBum99 (Apr 21, 2008)

A Partner at the law firm of Baker and Hostetler told me that Destination Clubs may be subject to sales tax and HCC may be liable for back sales taxes from the date of their first sold membership.  The sales tax would apply to the upfront fee and maybe even the maintenance fees since they are technically not selling a real estate product.

Based on how many members they have, can someone estimate that contingent liability?  If I were a member, I'd like to know how badly that would hurt them financially if this happened.

How is a member deposit secured?  Let's say that a sales tax ruling goes against them.  If an owner wants out, what are their options for getting back their membership fee?  And, if HCC goes belly up, what position in line do member deposits hold in the payout?

Maui is getting very aggressive in taxing Bed and Breakfasts and timeshares lately.  I wonder if Maui County will come after HCC for their two properties?  Do members pay Transient Occupancy Tax when they check out?


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## DosMasCervesos (Apr 21, 2008)

pwrshift said:


> ...In addition, I find the constant promotion of HCC membership over other DC's a little one sided.


What can we say? For the most part HCC members have thus far been very happy with their purchases. We aren't being paid/compensated for talking about HCC, we just think it is a good value and think the homes and service provided is excellent for the price.



pwrshift said:


> But DC's are private companies that depend on other people's membership fees and dues to succeed and don't have to publicly say what they do with your money. For a non-member, *two raises in fees in one year is a little hard to grasp, especially these days.*



But why? HCC has consistently had price increases, with the stated goal of having the membership price be $100K. I would be concerned if HCC was NOT having price increases, as this would deviate from both their stated plan and their historical trend. To read into a price increase they it is a "bad sign" or that the owners are somehow profiting excessively is quite a stretch.


pwrshift said:


> Nobody here really knows the financial workings of private DC's -- or how much of the increase goes directly into their weekly pay and bonuses. To say otherwise is pure speculation as it's private - not public.


You keep saying this point, but if you are really interested in joining HCC then sign the NDA and schedule a phone meeting with the CFO. When I was evaluating HCC that is what I did. It would be different if HCC wasn't willing to discuss company financials with members, but from what I can tell that isn't the case.

Are there more risks to joining HCC than buying a Marriot timeshare? You betcha. Can you resell a HCC membership like a timeshare? Nope. There are definitely disadvantages and additional risks to joining a DC. But there are also significant advantages that have been discussed by TUG members that are both HCC members and timeshare owners.

I'm afraid I just don't follow the logic in your posts these days. I do enjoy a good argument and hearing both sides of the debate. But you have me scratching my head on this one.

Matt


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## Steamboat Bill (Apr 21, 2008)

BocaBum99 said:


> A Partner at the law firm of Baker and Hostetler told me that Destination Clubs may be subject to sales tax and HCC may be liable for back sales taxes from the date of their first sold membership.  The sales tax would apply to the upfront fee and maybe even the maintenance fees since they are technically not selling a real estate product.
> 
> Maui is getting very aggressive in taxing Bed and Breakfasts and timeshares lately.  I wonder if Maui County will come after HCC for their two properties?  Do members pay Transient Occupancy Tax when they check out?



I don't know any facts other than these assumptions:

1. Hawaii tried to legislate the Destination Club industry, but they decided that the industry did not need legislation.
2. Don't you think they would have brought up the TOT sales tax then?
3. There are dozens of DC properties in Hawaii, thus a tax could affect everyone, not just HCC.
4. It is possible (even probable) that many DC members will never visit Hawaii and how would a tax affect them.
5. No DC charges sales tax that I am aware of. This is a club and you can access any property as a benefit. I am not sure this is a taxable event if someone uses a property in Hawaii.
6. Hawaiian properties probably represent less than 10% of any DC's portfolio, thus a tax would be bad, but not devastating.



DosMasCervesos said:


> What can we say? For the most part HCC members have thus far been very happy with their purchases. We aren't being paid/compensated for talking about HCC, we just think it is a good value and think the homes and service provided is excellent for the price.
> 
> Are there more risks to joining HCC than buying a Marriot timeshare? You betcha. Can you resell a HCC membership like a timeshare? Nope. There are definitely disadvantages and additional risks to joining a DC. But there are also significant advantages that have been discussed by TUG members that are both HCC members and timeshare owners.



There are also more risks in buying a timeshare vs staying at a hotel, but we all agree timeshares offer the potential for greater value. The same thing applies to DCs, except there are 4m timeshare owners and only 6,500 DC members.

------------------

Steamboat Bill Predication on 4/21/08
I will make a predication that on 4/21/09, it will be MORE expensive to join HCC and it will cost more for your annual dues than it does today. Just like the 3 or 4 price increases in the past, there is a short window of opportunity for anyone considering HCC now.

I joined HCC in December 2006 and my only regret is that I wish I joined in December 2005 or sooner.

-------------------

As a completely side note, since 2001 I have posted hundreds of messages on the benefits of joining DVC and the price was about $74 per point when I joined. The price is now $104 per point. I still think DVC is a good (but not great) deal and I am glad I locked in my price when I did, but wish I joined in 1991 as the price was under $50 per point.


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## BocaBum99 (Apr 21, 2008)

Steamboat Bill said:


> I don't know any facts other than these assumptions:
> 
> 1. Hawaii tried to legislate the Destination Club industry, but they decided that the industry did not need legislation.
> 2. Don't you think they would have brought up the TOT sales tax then?
> ...



Exactly.  No B&B had to charge occupancy tax until recently on Maui.  Now, Maui is going after them and putting a lot of them out of business.  Since travellers are down 15% due to 2 airlines going out of business, there will be even more pressure to go after transient taxes.   DCs will be targeted when Maui believes they can collect more revenues than it costs to collect it.

No DC charges sales tax.  That's exactly why there is a contingent liability if the states rule that they need to charge it.

It may never happen, but it is a potential liability.  

DCs are structured to avoid sales taxes and real estate regulations.  It's only time before taxes and regulations catch up with them.  It probably will happen when a big one goes bust and there are outcries for more regulation.


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## stevens397 (Apr 21, 2008)

I've been following these conversations for awhile on a number of different threads.  Clearly it IS a price point that will attract TUG members and it's probably why I'm not the only one lurking on this specific board.

My concerns about moving forward?  There is something nice about being part of a resort - a Marriott or Starwood or whatever.  Lots of places to eat, concierges to help set things up, often golf nearby.  The timeshares that are attached to resorts are often the best combo for me and many others.

I'm curious how the existing HCC members feel about that and whether they feel they are, in fact, missing that "something" when they stay at a DC?  Appreciate any feedback here.


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## Steamboat Bill (Apr 21, 2008)

BocaBum99 said:


> No B&B had to charge occupancy tax until recently on Maui.  Now, Maui is going after them and putting a lot of them out of business.  Since travellers are down 15% due to 2 airlines going out of business, there will be even more pressure to go after transient taxes.   DCs will be targeted when Maui believes they can collect more revenues than it costs to collect it.



I am certainly NOT an expert on tax issues, but B&B actually charge a rental rate per room based upon your use. A DC charges a membership fee and annual dues to have the "ability" to use any of their properties if there is space available. Thus, they are NOT actually charging anything to specifically use those Hawaii properties. It will be a complete mess to figure it out. Besides Steve Case, CEO of Exclusive Resorts is a native Hawaiian and has a very strong lobby. If anything, perhgaps they could demand a tax going forward, not hitting clubs with a tax bill from previous years. 

What happened to the B&B business? Are they going back and charging people or just announcing fees going forward? An easy way to fix this is to charge a daily tax fee to DC members going to Hawaii. However, not every member pays the same rate as they would have different "cost per night" values depending on their membership fee, annual dues, refund policy.


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## Steamboat Bill (Apr 21, 2008)

stevens397 said:


> I've been following these conversations for awhile on a number of different threads.  Clearly it IS a price point that will attract TUG members and it's probably why I'm not the only one lurking on this specific board.
> 
> My concerns about moving forward?  There is something nice about being part of a resort - a Marriott or Starwood or whatever.  Lots of places to eat, concierges to help set things up, often golf nearby.  The timeshares that are attached to resorts are often the best combo for me and many others.
> 
> I'm curious how the existing HCC members feel about that and whether they feel they are, in fact, missing that "something" when they stay at a DC?  Appreciate any feedback here.



Great question and it is nice to get back on point.

I own a collection of timeshares at resorts like Marriott, DVC, Westgate, etc. and they are nice, but it is like traveling on a public bus or flying coach. No problems here, but visiting a DC property is MORE like visiting a HOME that you feel is actually your own and it is generally very private and feels like arriving in a limo or private plane charter.

Of course there are many DC locations at resorts like Cabo, Orlando, Beaver Creek, Turks, NYC, etc. that give a resort feel and there are stand alone homes like Hilton Head, Breckenridge that feel like you are staying at home. I actually like to mix it up a little.

You can get anything you want at a DC such as a personal chef, grocery shopping, spa/golf reservations, butler, maid, etc. but you may have to pay for it.

We actually find staying at a DC to be significantly more relaxing and luxurious than any timeshare property.

HCC has over 30 properties that have a great variety to choose from.

-----------------

Disclaimer - HCC has never paid me one cent for anything I post here or anywhere else (I have actually posted more on DVC forums and never got anything from Disney either and look at my avatar and screen name), but HCC did comp me one week last year as I referred a personal friend to them. Unlike a timeshare, where I don't want anyone to buy a Westgate Park City or Marriott MMC as that increases competition for me in reserving a week I want, the more members that join HCC, the more homes they have to buy for me to enjoy.


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## Transit (Apr 21, 2008)

I'm not seeing the lower level memberships as a benefit. Some of the homes or their equivlant HCC has in their portfolio can be rented for about the cost of the membership yearly fee.You can check on the links HCC provides or on www.VRBO.com and see some rentals(same size homes or condos) in the same complexes or areas. Playa Del Carmen,N.Y. NY..Rosemary Beach ,HHI and Cooper Mountain are just a few I checked on and was able to find rentals on VRBO and on the resort links HCC provides at about 2000-3000 dollars a week.The holiday seasons and places like Hawaii get the advantage but of the places I looked up anyone can rent without joining HCC.


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## Bourne (Apr 21, 2008)

BocaBum99 said:


> A Partner at the law firm of Baker and Hostetler told me that Destination Clubs may be subject to sales tax and HCC may be liable for back sales taxes from the date of their first sold membership.  The sales tax would apply to the upfront fee and maybe even the maintenance fees since they are technically not selling a real estate product.
> 
> Based on how many members they have, can someone estimate that contingent liability?  If I were a member, I'd like to know how badly that would hurt them financially if this happened.
> 
> ...




Good point. My answers are listed below...

1. Given the tax liability of similar memberships, the dues will be taxed. The deposit cannot as it is refundable. 
2. This will impact all DCs. Contrary to public opinion, the members will have to foot the bill. How much? 0-10% of all dues paid depending on your state of residency. To put numbers to words, the worst hit would be an Exclusive Resort member from NY/LA/CHI who joined in 2003. 10% of 30K * 5 = 15K. IMHO, it is chump change for someone coughing out 300K one time and 30K per year. 15K is not going to cause a run to the bank. 

With respect to HCC, I was one of the first 100+ members. 2 Years at 5000K * 10%. is $1000. Again, the number is not earth shattering. Biggest bill would not be over $2000

3.If the member wants out, it is an exit for each two members joining. This is communicated upfront. If someone has issues with it, they should not join as it does not match their risk profile. 

4. If HCC goes belly up, member deposits are limited to 60% refund. As always, creditors come first. Again, this is not hidden under clause 110.22.3 of a 200 page contract and is communicated upfront. If someone has issues with it, they should not join as it does not match their risk profile.


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## Bourne (Apr 21, 2008)

pwrshift said:


> ...
> 
> Sooner or later the DC market will go public - it's already starting - and private DC's will fall into never never land.



IMHO, this is not the first time you have posted with a wording similar to this. It's like you are rooting for ALL current privately held DCs to go bust and members posting here look sh** faced.


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## BocaBum99 (Apr 21, 2008)

Bourne said:


> Good point. My answers are listed below...
> 
> 1. Given the tax liability of similar memberships, the dues will be taxed. The deposit cannot as it is refundable.
> 2. This will impact all DCs. Contrary to public opinion, the members will have to foot the bill. How much? 0-10% of all dues paid depending on your state of residency. To put numbers to words, the worst hit would be an Exclusive Resort member from NY/LA/CHI who joined in 2003. 10% of 30K * 5 = 15K. IMHO, it is chump change for someone coughing out 300K one time and 30K per year. 15K is not going to cause a run to the bank.
> ...



Thanks Bourne.  This is very helpful.  It helps me to size up the risk of joining such a venture.

I think too much has been made out on both sides of the argument.  Those who are Pro DC sometimes ignore these facts.  Those who are against them are mis-characterizing and over exagerating the risk as well.


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## Steamboat Bill (Apr 21, 2008)

BocaBum99 said:


> I think too much has been made out on both sides of the argument.  Those who are Pro DC sometimes ignore these facts.  Those who are against them are mis-characterizing and over exagerating the risk as well.



well said!!!


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## pwrshift (Apr 22, 2008)

Bourne said:


> IMHO, this is not the first time you have posted with a wording similar to this. It's like you are rooting for ALL current privately held DCs to go bust and members posting here look sh** faced.


 
Bourne -- I do not want DC's to go bust and feel it offers an exciting future for vacationers. But it's new and there will be many changes in the future, especially when large public companies like Intrawest, Marriott, Starwood, etc. enter the game.

I am not the only one to express concerns of giving big bucks to private companies for DC memberships, but when anyone dares to suggest some degree of caution here they get flamed. 

It appears some DC members can't see the forest for the trees. IMO people considering jumping into a DC should benefit from balanced opinion here rather than just hearing from committed and defensive members. 

People on the Marriott board know I never hesitate to rake Marriott over the coals if there's something I don't like ... and I own six Marriotts. But even then it's difficult to not be a little biased and sometimes defensive. I haven't seen any shag carpets in a Marriott yet, but do think some might be confused with Hilton's SouthBeach TS instead.  

http://www.vacationtimesharerentals...ch/Hilton-Grand-Vacation-Club-at-South-Beach/

Brian


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## vineyarder (Apr 22, 2008)

pwrshift said:


> But even then it's difficult to not be a little biased and sometimes defensive. I haven't seen any shag carpets in a Marriott yet, but do think some might be confused with Hilton's SouthBeach TS instead.



On behalf of the National Association of Shag-Carpeters and our spokesperson, Sir Austin Powers, I must respectfully request that this incessant desecration of the honor and status of shag carpets cease and desist immediately.  Shag carpets are an important cultural icon, and deserve both respect and admiration, especially during the month of April (National Shag Carpet Month).  If you must lambast floor-coverings, I suggest you aim your ire at those useless berber carpets (the leading cause of rug-burn in both North America and Europe).


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## Steamboat Bill (Apr 22, 2008)

vineyarder said:


> If you must lambast floor-coverings, I suggest you aim your ire at those useless berber carpets (the leading cause of rug-burn in both North America and Europe).



I still remember the rug burns I got after a wild college night from the berber carpeting in my apartment, if you know what I mean.....ouch.


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## pwrshift (Apr 22, 2008)

vineyarder said:


> On behalf of the National Association of Shag-Carpeters and our spokesperson, Sir Austin Powers...).


 
I assume you selected Sir Austin because of his 'Canadian' connection?  

http://www.canadianencyclopedia.ca/index.cfm?PgNm=TCE&Params=M1ARTM0011970


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