# Should I cancel Wyndham retail buy? Have 4 days left



## StuckInSacramento (Apr 5, 2012)

My husband and I just spent the weekend at Wyndham Grand Desert in Las Vegas and really liked the property.  We decided to buy in because we liked the quality of the rooms and wanted to force ourselves to take at least a yearly vacation - something we have denied our family too often.  We have two kids - 13 and 15 and we're mid 40s.  We've been wanting to go to Hawaii and/or Samoa for some time, and European travel is pretty high on our list.  We do a lot of short trips domestically, but never seem to get down to making the big ones happen.  We want to make travel a much bigger priority in our lives.

Now I find out there's this huge resale market and wonder if I shouldn't cancel the retail contract and buy resale. 

Are there any drawbacks to buying resale?
Can resale points be used at any Wyndham or RCI just like retail points?
Any exceptions?
The sales rep offered 12 one-week RCI coupons - worth it?
If Wyndham has right of first refusal on resale, how is there such an inexpensive resale market?

Are there other questions I should be asking that I don't even know I should be asking?

Thanks in advance for any advice (including if I should have posted this in a different forum).


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## TSPam (Apr 5, 2012)

rescind now! learn from here and then buy resale when you know more.


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## LAX Mom (Apr 5, 2012)

Welcome to TUG!
Rescind now while you can and take some time to educate yourself about timeshares. Resale is usually the best option and there are many opportunities for bargains right now.

Take some time and ask lots of questions.


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## scrapngen (Apr 5, 2012)

You have 4 days to rescind!! Make sure you follow the procedures to cancel. 
You will save oodles of money... If you decide you want to buy AFTER taking some time to do more research and ask all your questions, I guarantee you'll be able to make the same purchase...but if you DON't rescind now, you are stuck with a bad, costly decision. 

TS's are great, and all that excitement in seeing a future of vacations will still hold, but your pocketbook will be heavier if you take some time to carefully consider your options. TS's are easy to buy, but difficult to get rid of --especially if you spent way too much for them.

Good luck to you! You found us in time


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## Cheryl20772 (Apr 5, 2012)

If you rescind now, you will have time to learn about what you want to buy.  You don't really know anything about Wyndham right now (I can tell from your questions).  Would you pay that much money for anything else in the world without knowing what it was about ??

If you later decide you want to buy retail, the deal will still be there.

Those RCI weeks will not be free.  There is a transaction fee every time you use one and you would probably have trouble finding a week you want to use when you want to use it.  Did they tell you whether or not those RCI weeks certificates have an expiration date?  

You are so lucky to have found TUG in time to get out of that deal!  I wish I was you.


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## Karen G (Apr 5, 2012)

Cheryl20772 said:


> You are so lucky to have found TUG in time to get out of that deal!


Yes, you are one of the fortunate few to have found TUG while you're still within the rescission period.  Please take the excellent advice you've already been given.  Rescind while you still can; educate yourself on all there is to know about timeshares; buy something only when you know exactly what you are getting.


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## Beefnot (Apr 5, 2012)

The money you were putting into a retail purchase, use the difference from what you will save buying resale to immediately pay off bills, add to the kids' college fund, invest it, something. That is money you were about to blow, so now do something productive with it. You'll thank yourself.


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## Patri (Apr 5, 2012)

Off topic, but Beefnot, I love where you buy timeshares.


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## timeos2 (Apr 5, 2012)

Rescind, rescind, rescind! You can get the exact same ownership for pennies (literally) on the dollar - retail is a total waste of your money. Rescind while you still can. You'll never regret that move but would likely curse your choice to pay for & keep this mistaken purchase.  Be glad yoi found TUG in time!


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## rrlongwell (Apr 5, 2012)

StuckInSacramento said:


> My husband and I just spent the weekend at Wyndham Grand Desert in Las Vegas and really liked the property.  We decided to buy in because we liked the quality of the rooms and wanted to force ourselves to take at least a yearly vacation - something we have denied our family too often.  We have two kids - 13 and 15 and we're mid 40s.  We've been wanting to go to Hawaii and/or Samoa for some time, and European travel is pretty high on our list.  We do a lot of short trips domestically, but never seem to get down to making the big ones happen.  We want to make travel a much bigger priority in our lives ... Are there other questions I should be asking that I don't even know I should be asking? ...



Are there any drawbacks to buying resale?

No VIP eligable points.  How much that is worth to you is up to you.  You have to have a whole bunch to get the status in first place.

Now I find out there's this huge resale market and wonder if I shouldn't cancel the retail contract and buy resale. 

You may have a Wyndham Ghost in your closet for many many years to come.  

http://tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=168495

The sales rep offered 12 one-week RCI coupons - worth it?

If you want to pay the associated RCI fees to use the weeks.  There is your European trip through RCI if you want it.

Can resale points be used at any Wyndham or RCI just like retail points?
Any exceptions?

As far as I know this is true.

If Wyndham has right of first refusal on resale, how is there such an inexpensive resale market?

Wyndham does not have to exercise their right of first refusal.  You find the buyer then they decide.  If this clause is in your contract, odds are, this is not a deeded property and is basically a vacation club.  This is a relatively new program with Wyndham.  From what I have seen on E-Bay, there is not much of a re-sale market for the points.  I am not seeing a whole lot of Club Wyndham Access points on the market at this point.


Are there any drawbacks to buying resale?

Only wondering if you made the right decision.  Wyndham fees on non-Gold and Platium members can get expensive.  Make your decision based on what you want to do not what others think you should do and do not look back.

You may also want to consider that apparently, a number of the people strongly urging re-sale purchases from Wyndham are also Platimum Owners.


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## ronparise (Apr 5, 2012)

We must have been at Grand Desert at the same time....To answer your questions

"Are there any drawbacks to buying resale?"

There are no drawbacks to buying resale except that your points wont be VIP eligible. But from what you said in your post you probably wont need that many points anyway.  and if you do, just buy them on the resale market.

"Can resale points be used at any Wyndham or RCI just like retail points?
Any exceptions?"
No exceptions....(I stayed at Grand Desert with my resale points)


To repete the advice you already have...rescind now;  study the product; then decide


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## timeos2 (Apr 5, 2012)

rrlongwell said:


> Are there any drawbacks to buying resale?
> 
> Only wondering if you made the right decision.  Wyndham fees on non-Gold and Platium members can get expensive.  Make your decision based on what you want to do not what others think you should do and do not look back.
> 
> You may also want to consider that apparently, a number of the people strongly urging re-sale purchases from Wyndham are also Platimum Owners.



In over 15+ years of owning two resale Wyndham contracts and no VIP we NEVER paid one red cent in housekeeping fees. We did pay a few reservation fees & a couple guest certificates but they didn't amount to $300 total in all those years.  The "savings" for the average (not a big reseller of rentals, most owners will never do that) owner will NEVER (ever, as in at no time in your lifetime) come close to equaling the cost of buying retail Wyndham (plus the associated annual fees - the same for both retail & resale if you own the same amount of points at the same resort in both purchase methods) vs the tremendous savings you will be guaranteed with resale purchase.  Also remember, if you didn't know, that any "benefits" offered by being VIP are in no way guaranteed - they can (and in some cases have) disappeared the day after you buy and there isn't a recourse of any type for you.  Your money is gone, you own points you cannot sell except for maybe pennies on your wasted dollars.  

If you want Wyndham there is only one way to buy in to get maximum value. Resale. No other option - or benefit - gives the same return. it is a great system but not at retail price. If you haven't already rescind now. This is your only chance.


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## massvacationer (Apr 5, 2012)

Rescind!

I own resale Wyndham Points and I like them a lot.  Very good, flexible product.    They are a great fit for my family - really like 'em.  I really can't think of much negative to say - except that the Sales Department tends to turn-off a lot of people. I just don't go to sales pitches and i have no issues.

There are a few situations where buying retail may make sense (like you are running a rental business and need the VIP benefits, or you are very close to getting a VIP level and a small purchase can get you there, or you are able to negotiate a small purchase along with PIC to get to a VIP  level).........

BUT FOR THE VAST MAJORITY OF FOLKS, RESALE IS THE WAY TO GO.  

Take you time and research - Study-up on TUG for several months and then figure-out what is best for you.

As John says above, the extra housekeeping and reservation fees can be avoided by the resale owner through prudent use and planning - no big deal.


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## AwayWeGo (Apr 5, 2012)

*Off Topic, Shmoff Topic.*




Patri said:


> Beefnot, I love where you buy timeshares.


I resemble that remark. 

Not content with just owning at timeshares in Orlando & Kissimmee, we are moving ahead with transfer paperwork on a TUG-BBS bargain giveaway offer we are accepting (with thanks) for a nice timeshare in Las Vegas. 

Is this a great country or what ? 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


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## timeos2 (Apr 5, 2012)

AwayWeGo said:


> I resemble that remark.
> 
> Not content with just owning at timeshares in Orlando & Kissimmee, we are moving ahead with transfer paperwork on a TUG-BBS bargain giveaway offer we are accepting (with thanks) for a nice timeshare in Las Vegas.
> 
> ...



Alan - Don't gamble away all your timeshare savings at the one armed bandits!  Enjoy your new "purchase".


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## Timeshare Von (Apr 5, 2012)

Take a look at this thread.  You may be able to work something out with this person who needs to dump a 300k pt contract for Grand Desert.  You may be able to get into it for just the $299 to Wyndham plus title/closing fees.


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## momeason (Apr 5, 2012)

Timeshare Von said:


> Take a look at this thread.  You may be able to work something out with this person who needs to dump a 300k pt contract for Grand Desert.  You may be able to get into it for just the $299 to Wyndham plus title/closing fees.



I personally would rather own Wyndham points than RCI points at the Grand Desert. Which kind of points did you sign up for?

When you buy, buy a resale Wyndham contract..not RCI points and never from the developer. I have had my contract since 2007 and have done very well on getting many vacations every year in II. Yes there are a few Interval International Wyndham resorts although the majority are RCI affiliated. Now you are really confused.   

Rescind now..then ask questions!!


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## StuckInSacramento (Apr 5, 2012)

rrlongwell said:


> If Wyndham has right of first refusal on resale, how is there such an inexpensive resale market?
> 
> Wyndham does not have to exercise their right of first refusal.  You find the buyer then they decide.  If this clause is in your contract, odds are, this is not a deeded property and is basically a vacation club.  This is a relatively new program with Wyndham.  From what I have seen on E-Bay, there is not much of a re-sale market for the points.  I am not seeing a whole lot of Club Wyndham Access points on the market at this point.



We decided to rescind - hubby's filling out the paperwork right now.  Then we'll study this board and buy resale.  

Followup questions about this post, though - It definitely was a deeded contract.  I reviewed that paperwork thoroughly.  But they were very specific about right of first refusal.  Is this maybe something they weren't doing before that they have smartened up and started doing?




rrlongwell said:


> Are there any drawbacks to buying resale?
> 
> Only wondering if you made the right decision.  Wyndham fees on non-Gold and Platium members can get expensive.  Make your decision based on what you want to do not what others think you should do and do not look back.
> 
> You may also want to consider that apparently, a number of the people strongly urging re-sale purchases from Wyndham are also Platimum Owners



What does this mean?  There was no mention of Gold or Platinum membership at the sales pitch.  Why would Platinum owners urge resale purchases?

If these are silly questions, sorry - just trying to understand the responses so I can use the information.  Thanks!


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## theo (Apr 5, 2012)

*Were the salesperson's lips moving? If so, they were probably lying...*



StuckInSacramento said:


> But they were very specific about right of first refusal.  Is this maybe something they weren't doing before that they have smartened up and started doing?



Not likely --- unless it was the relatively new "Access" (no specific resort affiliation) program. Far more likely, the sales weasel was just lying. AFAIK, Wyndham ownerships that are deeded weeks, "converted" weeks or points packages historically have no ROFR; they get given away *for free* every day (see TUG Bargain Deals for numerous offerings) --- and Wyndham won't take *any* of them back, even at that price of _*zero*_.  

I gave away a Wyndham ownership (converted week) last year. That price of $0.00 was $101.50 less than I had previously paid for it (resale). I had to pay all closing / transfer costs fee myself, just to seal the "deal".  

You've done the right thing and you've dodged an expensive bullet. Congratulations and well done.


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## Cheryl20772 (Apr 5, 2012)

StuckInSacramento said:


> What does this mean?  There was no mention of Gold or Platinum membership at the sales pitch.  Why would Platinum owners urge resale purchases?
> 
> If these are silly questions, sorry - just trying to understand the responses so I can use the information.  Thanks!





There are no silly questions.  Not to worry.

Great news you will be able to rescind this deal and think things over.  Purchasing a timeshare needs to be a well thought out decision and not the result of spur of the moment decision or reaction to high pressure tactics.

There are currently two main types of Wyndham developer sales.  One is the regular UDI week deed at one resort.  The other is called Access and is actually like membership in a vacation club.  Your contract gives you rights to use a number of points from a pool of resorts held by the Trust.  Access is the only one that includes the feature of "right of first refusal".  That is not a desired perk to make a difference in your ownership decision.  Access may have a deed, but it would not be to a week (represented by points) for one particular resort.

All right of first refusal does is, in effect, delay your resale of the timeshare ownership when you are finished with it, while Wyndham gets to deside if they want to snatch it away from the buyer you worked hard to find first.  There is no guarantee that they will buy it from you or that they will take it back.  They just have the right to refuse it and you have to find a buyer first.

What you signed for was probably just a foot-in-the-door ownership that will let you use some resorts, but when you go to use them, Wyndham sales will pressure you to attend updates where they will try to then sell you VIP ownership.  You need to study and see what VIP means as it will not be available to you if you buy only resale points.  VIP (there are currently 3 VIP levels and it's subject to change or elimination at any time by Wyndham and not part of the conract) allows some perks such as discounts and free housekeeping credits and you need to decide if those perks are worth the $50,000+ price difference between developer purchase and near zero $$ resale purchase.  That is one decision.  Another is which resort you want to own at or if that really makes any difference to you.

Many people who paid all those bucks for VIP don't think it was worth the difference between what they have and what those who buy resale points have.  That's why Platinum VIP might recommend resale.  I am regular VIP and I would also recommend you buy resale, but will tell you to study and see what is best for you and your family.   At least for you, now, it's a studied decision.  We didn't know about the value of resale when we bought.  In fact, we were didn't understand timeshares and  the resale market at that time.  Our ignorance cost us plenty.  Now we try to get the most from what we own by making sure we understand all things Wyndham and how to use our VIP benefits to the max.  There's really no alternative for us as we will never recoup our sunk money.


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## rrlongwell (Apr 6, 2012)

StuckInSacramento said:


> We decided to rescind - hubby's filling out the paperwork right now.  Then we'll study this board and buy resale.
> 
> Followup questions about this post, though - It definitely was a deeded contract.  I reviewed that paperwork thoroughly.  But they were very specific about right of first refusal.  Is this maybe something they weren't doing before that they have smartened up and started doing?
> 
> ...



The right of first refusal is a relatively new concept for Wyndham.  I was not aware of how many currently sold deeded timeshares had the clause in it.

Someone already beat me to the answer to this question and described it better than I can so I will defer to her explaination.  I sometimes have a little bit of fun with the VIP Platium people who suggest buying re-sale.  They are giving you their advise based on their experience/perception.  In the final analysis, I think there is a growing agreement that the decision is solely on the person making the purchase based on what they want to use the timeshares for, how often, etc.

My Towers on the Grove deed was a deeded property the right of first refusal was in it.  As I understand it, it may be of the few criters of its type at Towers on the Grove, most of the timeshare ownerships there are or will be Club Wyndham Access.  I was not sure what Wyndham was doing on new sales (not re-sales of timeshares they got back) for deeded properties or if they were even selling them at this point.


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## DrBopp (Apr 8, 2012)

StuckInSacramento said:


> We decided to rescind - hubby's filling out the paperwork right now.  Then we'll study this board and buy resale.



That would be best, but I don't agree with waiting too long. Wyndham add fees and other things and in 3-6 months from now, you could be paying more than you would now. If you signed a  contract for X amount of $$$, in one visit, then buying on the resale market shouldn't be a hard decision. You could be enjoying your timeshare in that span of time.


StuckInSacramento said:


> Followup questions about this post, though - It definitely was a deeded contract.  I reviewed that paperwork thoroughly.  But they were very specific about right of first refusal.  Is this maybe something they weren't doing before that they have smartened up and started doing?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I strongly urge that you rescind and buy resale and I am not a Gold or Platinum owner. I have 480K points and paid about $600 for them. I go anywhere in the Wyndham system that has availibilty. My main point would be to purchase your contract where you would like to visit most often,  so you can reserve 10-13 months out. Other than that, if you are committed to buying Wyndham, I suggest you do it as soon as you determine where you want to be. The longer you wait, the more it will cost you. This is my experience and definitely my opinion.

Gordon


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## Patri (Apr 8, 2012)

I disagree with a rush to buy. The effects of the economy will suck for years, and people will continue to unload their timeshares. You will find a Wyndham bargain anytime you want one.


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## Timeshare Von (Apr 8, 2012)

Patri said:


> I disagree with a rush to buy. The effects of the economy will suck for years, and people will continue to unload their timeshares. You will find a Wyndham bargain anytime you want one.



I agree. In fact, I don't expect the timeshare industry to rebound for some time yet given that the economy is still hurting and T/S ownership is a luxury item bought with discretionary money.


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## funtime (Apr 8, 2012)

Rescind is the best advice - this is a nice resort but there is usually great availability in RCI for this resort.  My only reason for posting is to advise to take the "belt and suspenders" approach to recission.  One, follow the contract and do it exactly as they say with service by the method that they request; secondly after you do that, fax your same request and save the proof of fax sheet.  Funtime
Your reason to buy was good - joing TUG and you can get a less expensive timeshare - here or on ebay - and have a great time with family vacations.


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## vacationhopeful (Apr 8, 2012)

Cheryl20772 said:


> ....  Access is the only one that includes the feature of "right of first refusal"....



Not true. I was at Olde Town Alexandria when they were selling National Harbor. Those initial contracts DID include Right of First Refusal - as I posted such on TUG. That had to have been 3+ years ago.

PS. My all means, cancel that direct purchase contract. Resale points are billed the same MFs and have the same right to book vacations via the computer system or call center. VIP benefits are nothing more than a Sales Department hook with benefits that can be altered, dropped or modified via the whime of the Wyndham Sales Department (who pays for those bennies). For example, the reduced Free Guest Certificates to limiting 5 per year to VIPs, 10 per year to Gold VIPs, and 15 per year to Platimum VIPs (the basic editions for the newbie). They also raise the Guest Certificate fee from $29 to $49 to $129 (if using the Call Center) inside of 4 months.


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## Cheryl20772 (Apr 8, 2012)

vacationhopeful said:


> Not true. I was at Olde Town Alexandria when they were selling National Harbor. Those initial contracts DID include Right of First Refusal - as I posted such on TUG. That had to have been 3+ years ago.


Didn't you post that it was a "rumor"; or that a sales person told you this?  Can that be interpreted then as truth?  Oh well.  I know that National Harbor is pushed primarily as Access contracts which do have ROFR (for all that's worth).

Anyway, I apologize for being so wrong!  Thanks for the facts.


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## vacationhopeful (Apr 8, 2012)

Cheryl20772 said:


> Didn't you post that it was a "rumor"; or that a sales person told you this?  Can that be interpreted then as truth?  Oh well.  I know that National Harbor is pushed primarily as Access contracts which do have ROFR (for all that's worth).
> 
> Anyway, I apologize for being so wrong!  Thanks for the facts.



The salesperson TOLD me this was a new feature for National Harbour and the sales guy across the room was explaining a NEW contract to a H/W buyers just before they signed. And this was BEFORE Club Wyndham Acess was a product. It might have been more than 3 years ago, too. National Harbour was not yet done and the Gaylord was also under construction. I don't recall anything being open over there (salesman drove me around the site from Old Town.

ADDED: Found my post of January 21, 2009. It was line item 15 or 17 on a new contract for the National Harbor purchase. It was called "buyback" policy.


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## rrlongwell (Apr 8, 2012)

vacationhopeful said:


> The salesperson TOLD me this was a new feature for National Harbour and the sales guy across the room was explaining a NEW contract to a H/W buyers just before they signed. And this was BEFORE Club Wyndham Acess was a product. It might have been more than 3 years ago, too. National Harbour was not yet done and the Gaylord was also under construction. I don't recall anything being open over there (salesman drove me around the site from Old Town.
> 
> ADDED: Found my post of January 21, 2009. It was line item 15 or 17 on a new contract for the National Harbor purchase. It was called "buyback" policy.



You are right, I was at a early National Harbor sales pitch, they had not been open long, it was for a deeded property and not part of Access, the sales pitch, at the time, included the right of first refusal.  It also had a main feature of buy while the Maintance Fees were still low at the National Harbor rate.  The sales person said that the Maintance Fees would go up when they started selling them though Access (Access was to have a higher blended maintance fee).  As I indicated earlier in this post, I did buy a Towers on the Grove deeded property with the right of first refusal in it.

One major point, a number of people stongly indicate what sales people say is not to be believed.  In my experience, this is neither true nor false, sometimes they are right and sometimes they release information that is a pre-mature release of information (i.e. prior to the formal announcement), and then again, sometimes it is not completely accurate.


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## Tia (Apr 9, 2012)

If they're lips are moving is most the time true, cause if it is not written in the contract it's a definite no go. They can promise the moon but later no such thing happens .


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## rrlongwell (Apr 9, 2012)

Tia said:


> If they're lips are moving is most the time true, cause if it is not written in the contract it's a definite no go. They can promise the moon but later no such thing happens .



I would not necessarily jump to the conclusion that if their lips are moving [it] is most [of] the time true.  Key points should be verified through other sources.  I tend to agree, they can promise the moon but later no such thing happens.  It is always best to get the points you are interested in in writing.


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## Firehack (Apr 10, 2012)

*Recind Now*

Recind NOW !!!  You can get the same thing for 75% less in the after market.


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## mjgoryl (Apr 11, 2012)

if you want to throw your money away, go for it!


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