# RCI pushing Destiny Resorts



## blueparrot (May 1, 2010)

I heard recently that when a resort on the NC Outer Banks inquired about RCI's new rendition of its weeks system, RCI responded by strongly encouraging them to talk to Destiny Resorts.  Most of its experienced BOD members had rotated off recently, and the only board member with much service, albeit some years ago and who had recently rejoined the board, was the contact person, and she followed up because she thought RCI would give good advice.  The upshot is that that on her subsequent recommendation, the board voted to let these shysters in.

Please make certain your HOA BOD knows what it is doing, and realizes that any advice these days from RCI should be taken with a huge grain of salt.  That is especially true of new board members board members who are not exchangers themselves.


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## AFARR (May 1, 2010)

blueparrot said:


> I heard recently that when a resort on the NC Outer Banks inquired about RCI's new rendition of its weeks system, RCI responded by strongly encouraging them to talk to Destiny Resorts.  Most of its experienced BOD members had rotated off recently, and the only board member with much service, albeit some years ago and who had recently rejoined the board, was the contact person, and she followed up because she thought RCI would give good advice.  The upshot is that that on her subsequent recommendation, the board voted to let these shysters in.
> 
> Please make certain your HOA BOD knows what it is doing, and realizes that any advice these days from RCI should be taken with a huge grain of salt.  That is especially true of new board members board members who are not exchangers themselves.



Hoping it's not OBBC II or BIS Duck (probably not, though).


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## destinyresorts (May 18, 2010)

I am the President of Destiny Resorts. I am more than available to answer any questions you may have about my company or the services and products we offer.

We are contracted with RCI, leading property management companies and over 10 resorts wherein we provide honest, ethical, beneficial services and products to the associations and owners alike.

And blueparrot...I would strongly recommend you know what you are talking about and have your facts in order BEFORE you make slanderous and malicious statements refering to me, my company or teams as "shysters."

I encourage you to the point of DARING you to contact me to talk this out...but i am sure you won't... 

Steve


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## rickandcindy23 (May 18, 2010)

blueparrot, can you explain the issue a little better for people like me.  

What is the issue exactly?  I didn't understand who was having problems with a new BOD, and I wasn't following what you were saying, even though I read it twice.  

And what does Destiny Resorts have to do with RCI, and who signed up with "shysters?"  Is this a management company?


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## Carolinian (May 19, 2010)

It seems to me that there was another post here or on another ts board complaining about an HOA on the Crystal Coast tying up with this same outfit, Destiny Resorts.  As I recall, in that case, it was explained that the Crsytal Coast resort was mixed use between timeshare and whole ownership and the board was all whole owners who knew and cared little about timeshare.  If I was back in NC, I am sure I could run down more details of what is going on, both on the Crystal Coast and on the OBX.

Timesharers have a right to be suspicious of either RCI Points conversion brokers, so many of whom lie to con people into points (the old TimeshareBeat and Street Talk sites had a lot of info on this), or even more so the small points clubs, which are usually poor value to those conned into paying out to ''convert'' to points.  There are several threads going right now on TUG about Festiva Resorts, which is a major offender in the US, but the same problem exists in all parts of the world, whether it be South Africa with the notorius Club Leisure Group of Stewart ''The Bullfrog'' Lamont or Club La Costa in Europe.  I have seen these people operate, having sat though a Club La Costa presentation in Greece, and been involved with concerned owners at a resort I own at in South Africa which succesfully fought off The Bullfrog.

I would ask the company rep the following questions:
1) Are you an RCI conversion broker or are you offering your own small points club?
2) How much are your ''conversion costs''?  How much of that, if any goes back to the resort?
3) Do you trash the weeks-based ownership system in your presentations? Do you claim that points is a superior system to weeks, that ''timeshare is going to points and you had better convert now while you have the chance'' or that ''RCI is going to end the weeks system''.
4) Do you try to scare owners about rising maintenance fees or special assessments?  Do you mention these topics in your presentations?
5) Do you falsely portray points as a ''new improved version'' of timeshare, when in actual fact the very first timeshare, Hapimag, was and is a points system and it is actually the weeks-based system that is the newer, improved version?
6) If you have a small points based club, do you get people who convert to deed their weeks over to you or to some other entity?
7) Since RCI is apparently pushing your company, what does RCI get for that?
8) Do you claim that you are going to help sell HOA or developer inventory (this proved a big fib with Festiva based on the threads about them)?  If so what is your actual record of selling HOA or developer inventory (give specific resorts and number of units sold please)?
9) Do you sell or convert small points packages?  This was the very issue that led to so much turmoil with Sunterra, the growth of websites like www.sunterror.com and www.sunterrafied.com (both now down, and they may have been .co.uk rather than .com), and ultimately the fall of Sunterra.  Small points packages tend to be useless and cause great turmoil with owner dissatisfaction.


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## teepeeca (May 19, 2010)

*blueparrot*

Regarding your terminology---"shysters" ---. From looking up the term, 'shyster"---quote---"Definition of shyster at YourDictionary.com
Slang a person, esp. a lawyer, who uses unethical or tricky methods."

New people/organizations "being invited" to come into a timeshare resort to "manage/sell/convert/ or whatever"---should defintely be looked upon with trepidation.  Why are they there, and what are they "selling"?

If trying to use "not so nice" methods to change/convert portions of timeshare ownership from the old timeshare owners, then (in MY opinion---and using the definition in the dictionary) they ARE "shysters".

I think one contributor to this particular discussion "doth protest too much".

Tony


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## Carolinian (May 28, 2010)

Here is the earlier thread about Destiny Resorts on the Crystal Coast:

http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=111965

That thread, too, reports that it was RCI pushing Destiny with the HOA BOD.  Wonder what RCI is getting out of it?

It looks like Destiny has beaten a hasty retreat from TUG.  Perhaps too many questions that they did not want to have to answer, but sometimes silence itself can speak volumes.

The sad thing is that from Destiny's remarks in the other thread, it appears that they are suckering in resorts by claiming that they can somehow improve marketing of HOA owned units.  I wonder if any of the HOA boards have demanded proof of that.  It looks like what Destiny is really after is lists of existing members that they can shake down for a ''conversion'' or whatever they may call it.  Cold selling the general public is a much harder task, and one that I would be extremely surprised if they even tried to do given the sucker (membership) lists the HOA's are handing over.  Demanding proof with specific resorts and numbers of HOA inventory moved would answer the question, and it does not seem that they want to do that.


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## destinyresorts (Feb 20, 2011)

*My phone has yet to ring!*

Think what you may Carolinian, Rick and Cindy and Teepeeca, but what we are trying to do is breathe new life into "your" timeshare and your resort. The defaulted inventory from owners who have walked away from their responsibilities are costing the resort and its owners in good standing (YOU) a great deal of money. Traditional timeshare weeks cannot be given away let a lone sold as a traditional timeshare.

Our program allows existing owners who CHOSE to participate to enjoy a far wider range of use benefits and exchange options NEVER before available to weeks owners. When an owner participates in the upgrade, they are far less likely to default or walk away from their timeshare, and the timeshare becomes more attractive to family members as it offers multiple weeks use from a timeshare that has historically given the owner only one weeks use per year.

Your HOA is paid every time an owner upgrade. This found money is what is partially allowing the resort to perform much needed upgrades and address maintenance concerns instead of taking 100% of those funds from the already stretched and underfunded budget.

When this upgrade program is married to weeks that have been defaulted on it makes those weeks truly marketable and competitive in the market place.

Instead of assuming you know what you are talking about and making slanderous and malicious statements and accusations, why not open your mind every so slightly to see what we are doing there, what this program does offer, how you and the resort benefits etc? 

I am available at ANY time to discuss these and any other issues or questions ANY of you you may have...if you have the gumption to call. 
417 231-4291 direct to my desk.

My company has maintained an A+ BBB rating and has NEVER had even one complaint to any states Attorney General that we do business in. That is because we are NOT your typical timeshare company. While a rouge agent my slip through the cracks from time to time, they are quickly routed out. 

I am a 28 year timeshare owner and user myself and have represented the product for over 24 years.

Steve Drummond
President
Destiny Resorts


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## antb05 (Feb 29, 2012)

*Steve Drummond is a terrible busniess man. BEWARE  of Destiny Resorts*

If anyone knows what a sham Destiny Resorts and Steve Drummond is would be me! Two years ago we started a small sales and marketing company out of Florida. My partner and I had alot of experience with RCI Points and decided was a good idea. However, we needed contracts with resorts to be able to speak with owners to convert owners to points. While attracting potential clients and resorts to do business with we came across Destiny Resorts. We sent and email and QUICKLY received a call from Steve Drummond. He stated how many resorts he worked with and what a great business relationship we could have. Based on his website it really seemed as if he had alot of support and resorts to work with. He explained this "weeks upgrade program" he designed. Which honestly isnt bad. It really helps owners at weeks resorts get points access. However what you quickly find out is that "Destiny Resorts" is VERY small. They hardly have any resort contracts compared to how they present themselves. However, MR. Drummond went out on the road as he stated he would and went to work getting contracts with resorts to sell his weeks upgrade program. He started with Emerald Isle. We decided to get in bed with Destiny Resorts and use our sales and marketing team to contact owners and sell his product. There was absolutley no organization on Destiny Resorts part. When we received owners names they were on very unorganized spreadsheets etc..Took hours to get info good enough to download into our computer system. I must say Robin  Stites was the ONLy part of the team that really had a clue from Destiny. Again, come to find out other then Steve, His wife, and Robin there was no other people involved with Destiny Resorts. Steve did something very odd but we still moved forward being a small company. He demanded $5000 upfront from us as a "reserve" incase our sales team did not present product correct or any refunds to clients. This was supposed ot be held in a RESERVE account. We felt this was fair and sent $5000.  At that point we began selling his product. It was quite expensive and was not doing well. Most of the owners at Emerald Isle were up in age and had no need. BUT again, after fact finding out that Destiny did not have this inventory and these points packages were being sold third party by FVVC (Florida Vacation Villas). Destiny Resorts is not more then a corporation in Branson MO. They have no management lisc., Broker Lisc. ETC. So essentailly Steve Drummond is no more then a middleman that went out and pursuaded resorts to contract with him. HOWEVER, he would entice smaller older resorts by selling them on that he would try to sell excess HOA inventory at these smaller resorts to bring in more owners to pay maintenance fees. FACT is he is only interested in getting in the door to sell his weeks upgrade program to current owners. We never sold one unit for any resort and our focus was converting owners to the weeks upgrade program" Dealing with this LITTLE HITLER was not very fun and his micro managing of our company was terrible. He would call us and say how much he knew ect. He does have some knowledge but 15 years exp in orlando surely superceeds his small amount of exp. in Branson. But we dealt with it being a small company trying to attract more business. Being he went out and got these contracts he felt he was on top of the world. We did make him some money and he did travel and try to get more resorts contracts. NOT a bad relationship thus far even though it got to a point he knew that we knew he was not as big of a company he portrays. He also began wanted to start up road sales teams to meet the owners in hotels to convert them that we didnt reach by phone. WHAT we didnt realize was his funding for his travel and other avenues was our $5000 deposit. HOW you may ask do I know this? One of the 3 people associated with Destiny came to Orlando and had a few drinks and spilled the beans to my partner that he was broke and tryign to get business and our $5000 was going to his personal expenses. This is where it really started to get shady. I approched him in regards to our money being safe and he got very defensive. So at this point we were selling a bit and making him a bit of money and the road teams went out to sell. But we noticed we were not getting paid timely. Again that other person form Destiny spilled beans again that they didnt even have a merchant account to handle sales and they were using paypal. A customer had disputed a charge and he lost the paypal accouont. Being a lisc. real estate brokerage we felt we did the sales and had an agreement so why not use our merchant account. OOPs forgot to mention he originally wanted 10k to hold in "RESERVE" so out of every sale he kept $200 to help reach that amount of 10k. Since we were going to be runnning his road sales transactions as well we negotiated 2k of our money form "RESERVE" back which he did pay. We had actually asked for the full amount because at this time we had done business for about a year. AND AGAIN we knew he was a bit shady but it was a form of business for us and we pitched everything clean and recorded everything. In a year we never had one charge back towards our sales team. Now things started to fall apart. He could not get resort contracts and resorts HOA such as A Place At The Beach were putting pressure as to why weeks were not being sold and just conversions. They had no idea we would be hitting people with buy today presentations. we constantly had to adjust to and tone down pitches to keep it low pressure. But now we were running out of owners to speak to and Steve had nothing to work with. His road sales teams had flopped and he took a bath in the cost of doing road sales teams. AGAIN our sales and reserves had funded his endevours. Towards end of our relationship he would not provide info for OUR RESERVE account and just that it was safe. STEVE was struggling for money and now it was just  him and his wife as that 3rd person exited the picture. It came to a point were we told STeve we could no longer do business with him as he didnt have owners for us to sell and resorts had caught on to the fact he hadnt sold inventory but just came with a fly by night program and that was it. About 6 mnths later AFTER we still did not get our reserve money back as we had NO chargebacks for bad business AT ALL I received a call from our merchant account that there was a charge back from his road sales team. I immediatley called MR DRUMMOND and explained bank had already made a decision and it was in process of charge back. He cursed and yelled and called owner every name in book and stated he was aware and that he did his part and that he dealt with them and dealt with a complaint with them from the BBB. FACT IS they went ahead and filed for a dispute and by the time we even knew about it as STEVE DRUMMOND never told us of this it was to late to do anything about it. When asked to make good for the $2000 chargeback to our business from his sales team on the road STEVE DRUMMOND first said he would handle it. THEN when it was time to cough up 2k he changed his tune that he wanted to fight it, wont pay it, was BROKE etc. However it was too late as bank decision was made. We had already lost 5k to this guy pretty much so this was a chance to really call him out on our money. I told him I didnt want to eat 2k and until he could come up with the 2k he could use 2k form our "reserve" again STEVE DRUMMOND changed his tune and said our "RESERVE" money was in a cd that would have penalty's to remove. At that point we really became ugly as it was apparent he had no  more excuses. I demanded our money and our reserve. I even had to threaten lawsuit. At that point he cursed me out and said if I went to an attorney he would no longer talk to me and hung up. That was the last time I heard of STEVE DRUMMOND. A TRUE COWARD SHADY BUSINESSMAN. PLEASE owners and resorts alike be aware of this guy. IM POSTING ON TUGG AS I KNOW OWNERS AND RESORTS WILL SEE if they do research in Destiny Resorts. I told this story about as objective as I could as it wasnt all bad in the beginning. BUT Im as sour as a lemon on this guy. HE HAS NO INTENTION OF SELLING EXCESS RESORT INVENTORY and his program has FAILED at this point. So if he comes knocking or you think of doing business be aware!!! You can see what type of guy STEVE DRUMMOND is by previous posts. Please excuse typos as typing fast and furious. AND AS FAR AS CHALLENGES TO SPEAK TO MR. DRUMMOND HE HAS GONE GHOST. I CHALLENGE HIM AS HE DID OWNERS THAT ARE JUST LOOKING OUT FOR THEIR INTEREST TO CALLLL ME. Predators such as STEVE DRUMMOND give timeshare a black eye. I ENCOURAGE OWNERS THAT READ THIS POST TO CALL YOUR RESPECTIVE RESORTS AND SEVERE ANY TIES. FORWARD COMPLAINTS TO ARDA AND TO RCI. MR DRUMMOND. YOU HAVE NOT GOTTEN AWAY WITH YOUR POOR BUSINESS TACTICS. NOT A DISGRUNTED EMPLOYEE BUT A SCREWED OVER BUSINESS OWNER. For owners that want to know what we are having to do to even bring MR DRUMMOND to justice. PER OUR one sided contract with him our legal battle must be had in BRANSON MO. Our attorney is in process of filing lawsuit for our RESERVE money in Branson and MR. DRUMMOND will be served with a notice of small claims court to start as we try to get our 2k chargeback from his road sales team settled. WE DO NOT EXPECT OUR MONEY BACK AS WE KNOW DESTINY RESORTS IS BROKE BUT WOULD BE NICE. We just want to have our day in court.  PS..After this post I will no longer be on here as Im sure MR DRUMMOND WILL POST A NASTY REPLY. JUST WANT TO MAKE CONSUMERS AND RESORTS KNOW.


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## dundey (Mar 1, 2012)

destinyresorts said:


> Think what you may Carolinian, Rick and Cindy and Teepeeca, but what we are trying to do is breathe new life into "your" timeshare and your resort. The defaulted inventory from owners who have walked away from their responsibilities are costing the resort and its owners in good standing (YOU) a great deal of money. Traditional timeshare weeks cannot be given away let a lone sold as a traditional timeshare.
> 
> Our program allows existing owners who CHOSE to participate to enjoy a far wider range of use benefits and exchange options NEVER before available to weeks owners. When an owner participates in the upgrade, they are far less likely to default or walk away from their timeshare, and the timeshare becomes more attractive to family members as it offers multiple weeks use from a timeshare that has historically given the owner only one weeks use per year.
> 
> ...



Why don't you just answer the questions already raised here on TUG?
It would save a lot of time rather than speaking to all of us on the phone!


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## Carolinian (Mar 1, 2012)

Seascape on the OBX has dumped Destiny, although that is NOT reflected on Destiny's website.


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## Carolinian (Mar 1, 2012)

I have now found out that both OBX resorts that had dealt with Destiny have dumped them, although both are still listed on Destiny's website.  I am not certain about the Crystal Coast resort, although I know there are some Tuggers who own there.  Maybe one of them can let us know the status there.


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## SPM Manager (Mar 1, 2012)

*Destiny no longer affiliated with APATB III*

In 2011, the Board of A Place at the Beach III voted not to renew the contract with Destiny Resorts.


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## Dave599 (Mar 1, 2012)

Can't say I know much about Destiny Resorts never had any dealings with them but I took a look at there web site, very nice makes you think your dealing with a company of some size. So I did a bit of research and it seems this is Destiny Resorts head office:






Not saying there is anything wrong about running a business out of your garage but it kind of leaves a bad taste in your mouth when you think your dealing with a large company when in fact your not.

Dave


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## theshowerslipper (Mar 2, 2012)

*Reported Destiny resorts*

My resort confirmed no affiliation with Destiny. Power in numbers. Reporting Destiny Resorts and President to RCI, ARDA, and BBB.


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## andex (Mar 2, 2012)

"Not saying there is anything wrong about running a business out of your garage but it kind of leaves a bad taste in your mouth when you think your dealing with a large company" LOL nice!!


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## AKE (Mar 2, 2012)

Steve / Destiny Resorts: Can you please respond to each of the questions asked INDIVIDUALLY instead of making generic statements.  I know nothing about your company but I don't see the questions raised by Carolinian being answered.


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## Carolinian (Mar 3, 2012)

Another question - Since it is now clear that all three resorts in North Carolina that are still shown on the Destiny website as affiliated with them have, in fact, dumped them, how many of the other seven in other states have also dumped them?

Also, since Destiny turned over the HOA's membership lists to antb05's company, who else have they turned over those membership lists to?

And it's too bad that we do not have Ask RCI here on TUG anymore, because if we did, I would pose the question to them as to why they were apparently pushing an outfit like Destiny with HOA's.  Without RCI's push, I wonder how many of these ten HOA's would have signed up in the first place.


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## Carolinian (Mar 3, 2012)

timeos2 asked some rather pointed questions about things that just did not seem to add up in the other thread, but when Destiny came back, rather belatedly, it was only with a lot of blather and nothing remotely close to answers to those questions.  Destiny's big spiel was what a wonderful job they were doing (in their opinion) for A Place at the Beach, but since that resort has now dumped them, I guess actions speak louder than words.



dundey said:


> Why don't you just answer the questions already raised here on TUG?
> It would save a lot of time rather than speaking to all of us on the phone!


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## destinyresorts (Apr 11, 2013)

This may take some time for me to reply to the above posts but I will do my best to do so timely and as comprehensively as is possible and reasonable. The problem is it takes 10 times as long to write out replies to some of these questions, accusations, statements and issues and they are layered and hinge on a variety of factors etc. It is not as black and white or cut and dried as some of you might like or think.

However, I must first get some thoughts off my chest and as I mentioned in an above post I invite and in fact challenge ANY of you to sit down and go line item by line item over anything or topic you wish regarding timeshare, my company and the services it has provided etc. as long as you look at the WHOLE picture and ALL sides of the story. Listen to and look at what this program actually does and then decide...I DARE YOU!

Not trying to be rude, but the bottom line fact is that most of you have no freakin idea what you are talking about when it comes to the realities of weeks timeshare, it's history, how it REALLY works or the inner workings, relationships, contracts and needs and remedies for grossly mismanaged and failing timeshare resorts and the of HOA's that run them let alone what company's such as mine offer and provide. 

You would all agree that there are no television or radio show starring the average arm chair quarterback football fans...there is a reason for that...while they have a love of the game and third party working "knowledge" of how it works in brevity...they have no REAL idea what they are talking about. They watch the game from the sidelines and think because they have thrown a football or own a football or played in high school that they have some idea as to what really goes on within the day to day management of the team or what happens on the playing field. It is not that simple. That's why most of the commentators are former players or coaches. Likewise you people can sit on this forum and spew whatever rhetoric you choose but at the end of the day you do not have all THE FACTS, you DO NOT have ALL sides of the story and you DO NOT have the level of actual knowledge you need to spew some of the crap you spew...but such is life...I have to "listen" to yours and you mine if we want to interact I guess.

Neither me or my company created the weeks timeshare system which is and will continue to decline in almost every area from rising annual maintenance fees, to declining owner-bases, to unsellable inventory etc. until soon hundreds if not thousands of resorts will go bankrupt. There are two main reasons for this...one is that peoples vacation habits, needs and desires have changed over the past 38 years since weeks timeshare was introduced to this country. The problem is the weeks timeshare industry has not changed one iota, and self righteous ignorant HOA board members and pencil pushing property management companies are more of a problem than a help when it comes to trying to find some happy medium with regards to sales and other revenue programs which are THE ONLY solution to these resorts problems.

The second main reason is piss poor management by people who while they deserve a thank you and a degree of appreciation for taking on the task of being a volunteer HOA board member, for the most part do not have any real idea of the depth and breadth of the issues and items listed in paragraph 3 above. 

As I have mentioned, I have been a timeshare owner for a long time and have represented this industry for a long time and at the end of the day I could care less what any of you think of me or the services I try to provide. I KNOW without a shadow of a doubt that I always want a mutually beneficial outcome to any relationship I enter into.

To that point, A Place At The Beach III made over $40,000.00 in the short time my team tried to make a difference there. The Board and SPM threw road block after road block to any real progress being made. They did not renew the contract because the then Board President and I talked on the phone and we agreed that neither of us wanted to continue the relationship. SPM can spin it anyway they want.

Seascape made over $30,000.00 in a very short period of time as well. I made some bad employee hiring decisions including antB05 and we did not get the ultimate support we needed from staff and dealing with unrealistic expectations from the Board and staff just simply was not worth continuing.

Like any other program, system, approach etc. they all need revamping and eventually overhauling at some point. 

As the old saying goes, "the best laid plans of mice and men often go astray".

The RCI Points program and the program we offer weeks owners and resorts IS a sound and viable program that has and will continue to be A remedy not THE ONLY remedy for weeks based resorts looking for some relief from the looming implosion they are almost all facing. BUT...ONLY if the HOA and whatever yahoo property management company they hire to "manage" the property will listen to and work with company's such as mine. Property Management companies cannot and will not save failing weeks timeshare resorts. Talk about scams...HA...do some research on what property management companies charge these ailing resorts promising to fix everything...only to see another 10%-20% of the owner base default the next year. But that is another thread...

So here are the answers you requested...

I would ask the company rep the following questions:
1) Are you an RCI conversion broker or are you offering your own small points club?

_My company is an RCI Points Master Converter as defined by the contract with RCI. We market only RCI Points based inventory from affiliated RCI Points based resorts. I might also add that RCI is not "pushing" my company or any other._

2) How much are your ''conversion costs''? How much of that, if any goes back to the resort?

_In the industry companies charge anywhere from about $2995.00 to well over $10,000.00 for a conversion or upgrade/enhancement to a weeks owner.

My company's average price was $1995.00 and never more than $2995.00.

Of that approx. 50% goes to cost of sale meaning marketing costs, gifting, etc. as most of our activity was done via "road shows" where we would take the team to a concentration of owners in a certain city. A VERY costly undertaking for hotel rooms, car rental, airfare, food per Diem etc. The cost to the resort for our services both on and off site is ZERO! I pay approx. 25% in overall commissions in order to attract the best people I can so that we do not have high pressure sales or misleading sales tactics used...and we do not use either. The resort makes approx. 7-10% per conversion or sale. RCI gets $300 per deal for membership enrollment to RCI Points._

3) Do you trash the weeks-based ownership system in your presentations? Do you claim that points is a superior system to weeks, that ''timeshare is going to points and you had better convert now while you have the chance'' or that ''RCI is going to end the weeks system''.

_No we do not trash the weeks system. It was and is a good system for the most part. I was a weeks owner of 4 weeks for over 20 years...BUT...for most weeks owners the weeks they own are simply NOT performing the way they used to and there are a hundred reasons why that is. Our program breathes new life into those poorly performing weeks without the owner having to spend $20,000.00 on the new and improved points based products out there.

Those statement have NEVER been uttered from my lips and anyone who says I said it is a liar...plain and simple. The fact is that most companies are moving to some form of points based program because they are for the most part better in that they provide more flexibility and better use options than traditional weeks based products. The sky is blue whether your favorite color is green or not. It just IS. Likewise points simply ARE more flexible, easier to use, offer more options and in the long run are cheaper as you can manipulate them to more weeks use per year...if you learn how to do so.

There will always be RCI Weeks resorts. And for a percentage of people it works great and there may be no need to change or upgrade. However, there is NO real market for weeks based timeshare sales. That is why combining my program with the resorts weeks inventory makes that inventory more attractive to the average consumer and makes it sellable. IF the board and property management company gets the hec out if the way!_

4) Do you try to scare owners about rising maintenance fees or special assessments? Do you mention these topics in your presentations?

_We do not scare owners into or about ANYTHING. I cannot speak for other companies, but we do tell the owners what the truth is and how each work. The fact is that most...not all...weeks resorts HOA fees are rising at alarming rates. The catch 22 if a tough one for ALL involved. As the owner base gets older and either does not travel or find their week(s) not flexible enough for them they default. When enough owners have defaulted the board has no option but to raise the HOA fee to keep the resort afloat. That cycle repeats itself year after year. All the while the property management company's who are paid lofty sums to MANAGE the property make almost no dent whatsoever in selling the increasing number of defaulted weeks. As the HOA fees rise other owners who want to keep their timeshares decide the HOA fees are to high and they start to default...it is a vicious but true cycle and reality.

My program provides a viable remedy for existing owners AND their families to get use from the weeks timeshares for little money. Combining my program with the resorts weeks makes them more marketable._

5) Do you falsely portray points as a ''new improved version'' of timeshare, when in actual fact the very first timeshare, Hapimag, was and is a points system and it is actually the weeks-based system that is the newer, improved version?

_LOL...you are laughable at times Carolinian...The Modal A was for the most part the first automobile of any consequence, but the 2013 models are certainly the new and improved versions of the automobile...this is what I mean by ignorant and a waste of time...but...here goes...

My teams do not make any false statements to clients whatsoever first of all. Second, we market RCI Points based products from RCI Points affiliated resorts. RCI Points and points in general ARE the new and improved version of timeshare. Weeks timeshare was the industry mainstay for over 25 years. RCI Points is without a doubt THE most flexible, broad reaching and flexible points based system in all of timeshare. Period!_

6) If you have a small points based club, do you get people who convert to deed their weeks over to you or to some other entity?

_NO! My program creates an annual account of 10K RCI Points then allows the weeks owner to turn their week into more points via a program benefit called Points For Deposit. It is their initial week(s) combined with my program that makes the program attractive to weeks owners. NOTHING regarding their week or their obligation to the HOA changes with my program._

7) Since RCI is apparently pushing your company, what does RCI get for that?

_RCI is not and does not push my company or any other service provider company like mine. We have a good working relationship with RCI and RCI KNOWS and sees the short and long term benefit to weeks based timeshare owners and resorts my program and the RCI Points product offer._

8) Do you claim that you are going to help sell HOA or developer inventory (this proved a big fib with Festiva based on the threads about them)? If so what is your actual record of selling HOA or developer inventory (give specific resorts and number of units sold please)?

_I am not Festiva. Each resort contract is different. IF the resort has defaulted inventory and wants us to try and sell it we certainly will...PROVIDED that the resorts provides us with the appropriate access to on site owners and guests and supports our efforts on our road shows. I have had a contract with the largest property management company in this industry for over 10 years and we have sold over 2000 intervals for four of their resorts in that time. One resort from the north mid west had several hundred weeks that needed to be sold and because the HOA fee was reasonable and the weeks were worth a reasonable number of points via PFD we sold all intervals for them.

Had the Board at APATB III supported us and SPM would have gotten out of our way we would have been very successful selling their weeks._

9) Do you sell or convert small points packages? This was the very issue that led to so much turmoil with Sunterra, the growth of websites like www.sunterror.com and www.sunterrafied.com (both now down, and they may have been .co.uk rather than .com), and ultimately the fall of Sunterra. Small points packages tend to be useless and cause great turmoil with owner dissatisfaction. 

_I am VERY familiar with the Sunterra model and history. We sell whatever number of points necessary to meet or exceed the clients needs and long term exchange desires. Our product is derived from what is called pure points. We start with as little as 10K points and can grow from there. _

_Timeshare is an incredible product as a whole, but the past is littered with tried and failed resorts and products. That is why I sell ONLY RCI Points based inventory. While not perfect, it IS the best product for almost any timeshare consumer and will be standing long after other branded points systems come and go. Continued on next post._


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## destinyresorts (Apr 11, 2013)

And to another one of Carolinian's posts...

Here is the earlier thread about Destiny Resorts on the Crystal Coast:

http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=111965

That thread, too, reports that it was RCI pushing Destiny with the HOA BOD. Wonder what RCI is getting out of it?

It looks like Destiny has beaten a hasty retreat from TUG. Perhaps too many questions that they did not want to have to answer, but sometimes silence itself can speak volumes.

_(*Edit, No personal attacks allowed, Moderator*). The fact is that most of these questions do not go to the REAL heart of what is really going in this industry with weeks resorts as I briefly addressed above. What speaks volumes is you ability and desire to remain anonymous and spew incorrect information. I am ready, willing and able to participate in any debate or conversation forum at any time to address the REAL issues and REALITY of what my program does and what the REAL state of weeks timeshare is ANYTIME ANYWHERE!_

The sad thing is that from Destiny's remarks in the other thread, it appears that they are suckering in resorts by claiming that they can somehow improve marketing of HOA owned units. I wonder if any of the HOA boards have demanded proof of that. It looks like what Destiny is really after is lists of existing members that they can shake down for a ''conversion'' or whatever they may call it. Cold selling the general public is a much harder task, and one that I would be extremely surprised if they even tried to do given the sucker (membership) lists the HOA's are handing over. Demanding proof with specific resorts and numbers of HOA inventory moved would answer the question, and it does not seem that they want to do that. 

_Once again Carolinian you are grossly mistaken and flat out WRONG as usual...

This program is THE ONLY program that WILL make marketing weeks based inventory attractive to the general public, owners family members etc. That is why over 98% of all new timeshare resorts ARE RCI Points based resorts. IF your typical dumb-ass statement had any validity to it whatsoever, more resorts would be affiliating as weeks resorts not points...The general public at large is NOT buying weeks based timeshares. and the ones that do sell on e bay or other places are being bought for a $1 buy an RCI Points member using the week in the PFD program for more points.

As far as HOA lists go, other than approved individuals or contracted companies that assist Destiny in marketing, Destiny has not and will not ever release or use those HOA lists for ANY other purpose than what is or was provided for in the HOA contract. Anyone who says Destiny has given or sold ANY list from a contracted HOA are lying.

You are correct for once on one thing, cold selling is much much more difficult. If we went out to try and sell almost any resorts defaulted weeks just as weeks, none would sell. If they were or are so attractive people would be calling the resort to buy them. They don't because they DO NOT perform...period! BUT...when you marry the RCI Points program to those weeks they become a completely different and viable usable product. That is a simple and plain FACT! Additionally, our main goal with ANY HOA is two fold. Our primary function and first goal as disclosed, explained to and approved by the resorts HOA Boards is to upgrade owners with my program. Why? Because when an owner spend a small amount of money to improve what they already own they remain owners in good standing and continue to pay their HOA fees. That upgrade program will also put tens of thousands of dollars in the operating budget of ANY resort who employs this program. PERIOD! The secondary goal is the liquidation of defaulted HOA controlled inventory...some resorts contracted us just to get the revenue from the upgrade program. Some wanted both components and we have had good success when the Board and property management company works with us and not against us.

For ANDEX, Dave559, theshowerslipper, I had a $4000.00 per month office for over 10 years until I parted ways with the OBX resorts. WHY? Because dealing with HOA's and incompetent property management companies is like a football team dealing with armchair quarterbacks...it was simply not worth the money or time. I had 1400Sq Ft. in my 3800 sq. ft home downstairs that was never used...made more economic sense to work from their. Also Dave 559...that is not my house...my home is several doors down and much much larger than the duplexes pictured there. Just for the record.

AKE...Steve / Destiny Resorts: Can you please respond to each of the questions asked INDIVIDUALLY instead of making generic statements. I know nothing about your company but I don't see the questions raised by Carolinian being answered. 

Your answers are above. Thank you for your civil approach.

Now back to Carolinian...

Another question - Since it is now clear that all three resorts in North Carolina that are still shown on the Destiny website as affiliated with them have, in fact, dumped them, how many of the other seven in other states have also dumped them?

My web site was supposed to be dormant and when it came to my attention, before I read this post by the way, I had the resorts removed. There is still some coding to be removed but I am trying to find another IT person to do it.

Also, since Destiny turned over the HOA's membership lists to antb05's company, who else have they turned over those membership lists to?

antB05 was one of the owners of a former phone room we hired to work for us. They had more high pressure complaints and caused more sales cancellations and resort relationship problems and concerns that any other organization I have ever worked with. He now works for a resale company. They were approved by both resorts to utilize the lists to market ONLY to the resorts owners. IF they have used the list for ANY other reason THEY and THEY alone are responsible for that and will all legal remedy will be sought to stop them. Not that I was going to address his rant here, but what the hec. The charge back he mentions was NEVER substantiated and he just wanted us to "trust him" and write him a check. Not gonna do it. I asked for documentation from the merchant account company and to contact them and he refused. Also we paid 2/3's of his deposit back to his partner during his last phone campaign...perhaps her has forgotten that or needs to take that up with his former partner. He made that post in February of 2012. To date I have not been served but WELCOME it anytime! The remaining amount was held and refunded to clients who had been lied to or misrepresented by his team.

And it's too bad that we do not have Ask RCI here on TUG anymore, because if we did, I would pose the question to them as to why they were apparently pushing an outfit like Destiny with HOA's. Without RCI's push, I wonder how many of these ten HOA's would have signed up in the first place. 

They work with me like resorts, developers, property management companies etc. because they actually KNOW me, meet with me several times a year, KNOW my past in this business and KNOW that I have an A+ BBB rating because that's how I DO business. Any of you want to sit face to face in a town hall meeting ANYTIME...let's do it! I KNOW timeshare...I KNOW the issues concerns problems etc and I KNOW and believe that RCI Points and our program IS the BEST program for MOST people. I have stood by it for 13 years and will continue to do so regardless of what some ignorant uninformed yahoo's on TUG choose to spew!

And Carolinian ...again...lol...

timeos2 asked some rather pointed questions about things that just did not seem to add up in the other thread, but when Destiny came back, rather belatedly, it was only with a lot of blather and nothing remotely close to answers to those questions. Destiny's big spiel was what a wonderful job they were doing (in their opinion) for A Place at the Beach, but since that resort has now dumped them, I guess actions speak louder than words.

I do not recall that other thread Carolinian, but if sent the thread link will be happy to answer any questions asked just like I have done here. If they are not within your desired time frame too bad. I do not visit TUG that often for a reason...namely people like you...lol...

But yet again you spew of what you have NO possessive knowledge of. I will not address the particulars of the problems I had with APATB III or that they had with me. But I assure you...even if they had wanted to renew the contract I would not have signed it. I will share this with you as a case in point. NOT ONE of the board members at APATB III is a timeshare owner...NOT ONE. I literally had to give them all a timeshare 101 course before I could explain the benefit of this program. That same board has been the board for over 15 years for the most part. In that time they have allowed their default percentage to rise to over 35%. In that time they were used and abused by a local realtor who was supposed to be selling association weeks but sold only owner resales as she made money than selling HOA weeks. The former property management company tried to do a good job but was not a timeshare property management company. So they hired SPM...HA...Big company with BIG fees and today...a full two years later they have more defaulted weeks than they did when they took over...so who is scamming who? I put over $40,000 into their budget in less than 6 months...NO ONE else has done that since the original developer was there...

Feel free to have at this thread...or contact me via e mail anytime..._


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## timeos2 (Apr 12, 2013)

Thank you for your detailed, if rather belated, reply. It seems clear you believe in RCI Points as one viable answer to the issues of seasonal resorts and the need to market that less desirable time to owners as a useful product. I also feel that is an answer to a very real problem many resorts have. The old guard who believe in only a weeks based product will never buy into any points based system but they aren't the market of today. You seem to realize today's traveler and timeshare owners want more flexibility, more resorts and to not be tied to a fixed, 7 day regimen of single resort stays. 

Hopefully your posts will stand and it will help enlighten some visitors as to how a good points system can be a value to both owners looking for options and resorts looking to support hard to sell inventory. Good luck to you.


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## tschwa2 (Apr 12, 2013)

I didn't read the post from 2010 but did read the ones from 2012.  

I have been a TS owner since 2005 and an RCI points owner since 2008.  My question for Destiny Resorts.  You talk about being a 20+ timeshare owner and how the weeks program doesn't work for most of today's owners.  I presume if you still own TS's at least one is in RCI points.  Do you own any that are still in weeks?  In 2010 RCI went to the tpu's system for weeks assigning a numerical trading value to weeks.  While the required increments to use a weeks timeshare is still a full week, this has given some of the advantages of the points system to the weeks.  It offers greater transparency (Carolina- I know its not full) and allows you to combine if needed or to get two or more exchanges from one deposit in some instances.  At the same time RCI has been chipping away at some of the points advantages.  Annual and multi-year memberships for RCI points are almost never discounted (and are higher than weeks memberships).  RCI regularly give a 2 for 1 annual membership promotion to weeks members making the fee $89 for 2 years vs $229 for points members.  They have taken away a bunch of points partners options - like non expiring Disney tickets, pre paid Visa cards, etc.  They have also limited the number of points a member can use annually for partner transactions.  The 6500-9000 points have been greatly reduced by weeks members who don't have to use a full deposit to grab a last minute exchange, but cutting the time that they appear from 45 days to 30 days or less and in some case no discounts at all even at 15 days or less.  More and more HOA's are adding $45-90 housekeeping fees to stays of less than 7 days (to pay for the extra cleanings) which is fare but a short stay now is no longer the bargain when you add the fees and in some cases just booking a whole week may be less expensive or nearly the same as booking the partial week.
I used to own an EOY 105,500 point unit and a 75,500 EOY unit and was always borrowing ahead.  Now I gave away the 75,500 unit and still feel that 105,500 points EOY may be more than I need.  I like to have the flexibility to look in both points and weeks but more and more I get a better return from using my weeks than my points.

As much as you disagree with Carolina (and we all do sometimes), he is correct that developers make (back room) deals with RCI and there are a bunch that are over-pointed in RCI.  That is why I believe more current developers are selling RCI points.  These are the ones that you want to own (but not pay developer prices).  If you aren't getting your points for close to a penny a point or less, then for the most part RCI points aren't very cost effective.  That's the problem I think Destiny resorts faces.  Converting older resorts doesn't result in good MF's to points ratios.  Only the best weeks get ok ratios and the rest aren't good.  The best weeks already get good tpu's in the RCI weeks system and can often be used for several weeks- especially lock off units.  They are also the ones that owners use or rent and don't deposit in RCI so why would they want to pay to convert.  The weeks that don't work well in the RCI weeks system don't get many points and unfortunately conversion for existing resorts ends up to be an expensive way for owners to put lipstick on pig.  And even at a penny a point, exchanging through RCI points doesn't always provide a good value.

RCI has made changes to both weeks and points programs and raised fees quite a bunch in the process.  Some people can't stand the changes that have taken place in the weeks program, while some really like the changes.  I haven't seen any positive changes in the points program over the last 2 years and all of the changes have made it less and less attractive.  So if you are comparing the weeks program and the points program, you need to compare both of them as they are today not what they were 3-5 years ago.

I know these were not questions, but my observations as a owner and user of both points and weeks.  I just don't see how converting will benefit 90% of existing owners of weeks and with the market the way it is even the 10% who would benefit can do it for less money by dumping what they currently own and buying something already converted with a good MF-RCI points ratio on Ebay.

While I don't see your outfit as a scam, it just if overpriced or unnecessary for most owners, and I can see how those who overpay feel as though they have been scammed especially if they don't feel that their ownership has been "enhanced" to the extent they felt they were promised.


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## theo (Apr 12, 2013)

*Not much of an invitation --- or  "dare"...*



destinyresorts said:


> <snip>I encourage you to the point of DARING you to contact me to talk this out...but i am sure you won't...
> 
> Steve



I certainly have "no dog in this fight", but this seems to me like a very  shallow and superficial "dare", providing absolutely no specifics on contact information.

So, "President Steve with no last name", why not actually provide the OP with your full name, address and maybe a phone number --- if you *really* want to hear from the OP to "talk this out"...


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## gnorth16 (Apr 12, 2013)

Steve Drummond
President
Destiny Resorts 
417 231-4291 direct to my desk.

All in post #8, except the address, which is not really required...


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## theo (Apr 12, 2013)

*Absolutely right...*



gnorth16 said:


> Steve Drummond
> President
> Destiny Resorts
> 417 231-4291 direct to my desk.
> ...



My bad; I apparently missed that info (...like you yesterday, I forgot my Ritalin today).


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## Carolinian (Apr 12, 2013)

Well, we know some of the resorts he has been kicked out of, but he is evasive about any that deal with him now.

Points is absolutely useless to the timesharer who owns to use at his home resort, which is what the majority of OBX timeshare owners do, especially the summer owners.  As to exchanging, I do a heck of a lot better with DAE, SFX, and UKRE than  with RCI, and getting trapped in RCI's points system would keep a timeshare owner from using those options.

I have caught Drummond in one clear untruth.  The person who was the liaison between one OBX resort and Destiny and was involved from the very beginning told me it was the RCI rep for the OBX that was promoting Destiny with the resorts there, and that was the reason they even listened to Destiny's spiel.  I have known that person for years and I know that person to be truthful.  When Drummond tells it a different way, Drummond is NOT being truthful.  How much else is he not being truthful about?

The old TimeshareBeat told enough stories about the lies being used by RCI master points brokers to con people into paying money to ''convert'' to points, so I would trust one of those brokers about as far as I could throw them.  One timeshare professional posting at The Beat had a good description of selling timeshare conversions, calling it ''selling air''.

Pure points, huh?  You know that has been such a success in Europe! (sarcastic).  Has the initial RCI pure points system there gone into receivership yet (so you don't answer a different question, I am speaking of RCI Points, Ltd., the original RCI Points vehicle in Europe)?

And I don't seem to see the m/f arrangement on these 10,000 pure points, or how he conjures them up.  Are they based on his inventory or does RCi just create them the way the Feds print money? Cobbling together a m/f for that with the base m/f for the week could really raise the costs of exchanging, especially when you add an exchange fee and annual membership fee.  The points for deposit for an offseason week added to that 10,000 pure points would not offer too much trading power, either.  Any timesharer with any brains could go on eBay and buy something that will give a lot more bang for the buck than what Destiny offer.

Developers sell points because it allows them to play shell games with buyers, not because it is any benefit to the buyer.  I wonder what will happen if the legal reasoning in some recent court cases in Spain involving Anfi floating weeks takes hold elsewhere?  The same basis for invalidating those timeshare contracts could apply to most floating weeks resorts, and probably most points resorts.


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## RCI converter (Jul 10, 2013)

gnorth16 said:


> Steve Drummond
> President
> Destiny Resorts
> 417 231-4291 direct to my desk.
> ...


I have to say to all you people that are trashing Mr Drummond, you are all wrong! I have worked for his company for a short period thru another company doing RCI point conversions and I know of only a hand full of honest people doing Rci point conversions and not over charging the owners for converting into point and Steve is one of them, he is known as a RCI Master Converter and RCI only made a few companies into Master Converters Steve's being one of them. So my question to all of you trashing Steve is why would a BILLION DOLLAR company such as RCI risk the companies reputation if what is being said about Steve is true. Steve is a very honest guy and doesn't over charge owner like other companies I know of and he discloses everything in his paperwork and if you took the time to read it and then do the research you would see that he is very honest. If I ever had the chance to do Bussiness with his company I would because of his honesty and this is from someone that has done RCI point conversions from day one of the start of Rci points and for many resort and is known as one of the best sale person in the Bussiness of doing RCI point conversions and dealing with owner and converting them into RCI points. If you c knew who I was you could call RCI and they would tell you that they have gotten many letters from owners about me and how I handle them and the concerns they had and also took the time to make sure they understood everything about points before they converted ... I also challenge you to call Steve. If you don't then your just on here talking about something you know nothing about. I'm sorry your life is so miserable that you have nothing better to do with your time then to sit on here and trash someone that you have never met........ You do a lot for the resorts you have worked for and the ones you convert I know the resorts and those resort where going under at one point and now some of them are back on top and the owners are happy and paying the M&Ts and can now take vacation they would have never been able to do if it wasn't for your companies so your are doing a great service for resorts that are in and shape


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## Carolinian (Jul 11, 2013)

Every NC resort that dealt with him fired his company.  That speaks volumes.


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## antb05 (Feb 25, 2017)

So. Years later i would like to follow up. Destiny Resorts and Steve Drummond was the biggest scammer i ever dealt with in the industry. Never received our money back and here in 2017 his website is still the same . BEWARE. Following up as i am years removed from the industry and a Real Estate Broker in beautiful Florida. But want to make sure Mr Drummond never gets a foot up in the industry again. Resort HOA's please lock the door if see this guy coming. Now trying to go as "Destiny Resort Solutions"


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