# Determining point value of deeded week



## awa (Apr 2, 2016)

I asked in another post but combined with some other unrelated stuff... how do I determine the point value of a deeded week on the resale market?  I've tried asking the owners who posted it, but they haven't been to sales presentations where it has been discussed.  If someone has a floating week and there are 4 different seasons (or 3 or 2), how do I know how many points it will be worth?  Does it depend on the resort?  Or is there a standard formula?  I'm specifically thinking of a two bedroom Villa at Polo Towers (but interested in information about any others as well).  Is a floating week worth 14,500 or 16,000?  Or something in between?  Thanks!


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## artringwald (Apr 2, 2016)

There's no set formula for how many points you'd get if you tried to take a resale week and get DRI to add it to the Club.  I have a float/float deeded week at Poipu that's not in the Club. I can easily book oceanfront view with it. DRI would give me 10,500 points if I got them to put it in the Club, but it would cost 15,500 point to book 7 days with oceanfront view. I tried booking a variety of weeks at the Polo Towers Villas. Here's how many points they'd cost.

Studio - Efficiency (2)
05-Aug-2016
12-Aug-2016
5625

1 Bedroom Villa (4)
20-Oct-2016
27-Oct-2016
8663

1 Bedroom Villa (4)
02-Sep-2016
09-Sep-2016
10500

2 Bedroom Villa (6)
01-Aug-2016
08-Aug-2016
11963

2 Bedroom Villa (6)
27-Oct-2016
03-Nov-2016
15950

I assume you know that usually DRI requires you to buy more points to get a deeded week added to the Club, often 1/2 as many points as you'd get from adding it.


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## awa (Apr 2, 2016)

Thank you very much for your post!  I was able to recreate those same point values.  I think they came out to odd numbers because the dates that are not Fri-Fri or Sat-Sat use the formula 30% of the weekly rate for Fri and Sat and 10% for each of the other days.  So a 7 day reservation comes out to 110% of the published weekly rate.  I adjusted that last reservation to be 29 Oct to 5 Nov and it turned out to be (the expected number) 14500.  The one above that, I adjusted to 6 Aug to 13 Aug and it showed as 10875 (indicating a 25% discount off of 14500).

Your P@P case is very interesting, because the number 10500 doesn't appear anywhere in the points value table.  I can see where a 2bd ocean front is 15500 in high season.  But the closest value to 10500 is a 2bd partial ocean view in high season, which is listed at 10000.  If it was sold to you without regard to the view, it must be an interesting (and secret) calculation to determine how many points to assign.  That worries me, because I would like to know exactly what I'm buying in terms of points, and it seems like I can't.  There are a fair number of floating 2bd units at Polo Towers Villas for resale, but the points value table shows that it's worth 14500 in high season and 16000 in peak season.  Since I'm planning to buy the remaining points needed to get to 20k, that's a significant difference.


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## awa (Apr 2, 2016)

Oh my gosh!  I might have figured it out!  So at P@P 46 weeks of the year are in high season and 6 weeks are in peak season.  The weighted average of 10k * (46/52) + 14k * (6/52) = 10461 which rounds to 10500!


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## artringwald (Apr 3, 2016)

Your math was enlightening to me. I didn't realize that a Fri-Fri booking would cost more points than a Sat-Sat. Thanks! 

To find out the point value of a deeded week, you might try posting your question on the forum moderated by DRI, www.diamondresortsforums.com They've given good answers to questions I've posted there before. I haven't had much success trying to get answers by phone calls.

The P@P week I have in the Club is deeded as floating week/oceanfront view. When I bought it from DRI, they gave me 15,500 Club points. The other 2 weeks we own are float/float, purchased resale. Since we use them at P@P every year and can book oceanfront, it doesn't make any sense putting them into the Club, especially since Club dues are now based on total points. If I look at my ownership summary on the web site, it lists all 3 weeks as oceanfront. Go figure!?!


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## cali-gal (Apr 9, 2016)

artringwald said:


> There's no set formula for how many points you'd get if you tried to take a resale week and get DRI to add it to the Club.  I have a float/float deeded week at Poipu that's not in the Club. I can easily book oceanfront view with it. DRI would give me 10,500 points if I got them to put it in the Club, but it would cost 15,500 point to book 7 days with oceanfront view. I tried booking a variety of weeks at the Polo Towers Villas...
> 
> I assume you know that usually DRI requires you to buy more points to get a deeded week added to the Club, often 1/2 as many points as you'd get from adding it.



I'm confused--you can trade your P@P deeded week within the DRI system?  We were told at an owner's update that we could only use our deeded weeks at the Kaanapali Beach Club to stay there, and can't use them to trade with. That is, unless we bought points and joined The Club-- or we used an exchange company like II or RCI. 
Did I misunderstand or was I misinformed?

We are already members of II but have only traded our Marriott Ocean Club with them. Does anyone have any idea of what kind of trade power we'd get if we did deposit our KBC week into II? For example, right now I have an ocean view room reserved for the Fourth of July week. I'm trying to rent it, but if that doesn't happen soon I may decide to deposit it into II. It would be helpful to have some idea if what kind of trade I might be able to get.


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## artringwald (Apr 10, 2016)

cali-gal said:


> I'm confused--you can trade your P@P deeded week within the DRI system?  We were told at an owner's update that we could only use our deeded weeks at the Kaanapali Beach Club to stay there, and can't use them to trade with. That is, unless we bought points and joined The Club-- or we used an exchange company like II or RCI.
> Did I misunderstand or was I misinformed?
> 
> We are already members of II but have only traded our Marriott Ocean Club with them. Does anyone have any idea of what kind of trade power we'd get if we did deposit our KBC week into II? For example, right now I have an ocean view room reserved for the Fourth of July week. I'm trying to rent it, but if that doesn't happen soon I may decide to deposit it into II. It would be helpful to have some idea if what kind of trade I might be able to get.



If you have a deeded week, what DRI will try and talk you into doing is option #1: give up your deed in exchange for points in a trust collection and Club membership. They usually don't talk about option #2: keep your deed, and have the deed added to the Club in exchange for Club points. Both result with points usable for booking any resort available to Club members. The disadvantage of #1 is you'll be paying much more in fees because of the overhead of the trust collection. If you decide to quit the Club, you will still be able to book any resort in the trust collection. If you want out, points can be hard to sell or give away. The Club membership is not transferable, so buyers would only be able to book resorts in the collection. The disadvantage of #2 is that DRI usually requires you to buy collection points to get a deed added to the Club. For example, if your week would be worth 10,000 Club points, DRI will usually require you to buy 5,000 collection points at the going rate.  Terms are negotiable. Down the road if you decide to quit the Club, you can still use your deed as before the deal. Deeds are easier to sell or give away, but you'd still be stuck with any points they required you to buy.

Option #3 is keep the deed out of the Club and trade through II or RCI, or rent to strangers. With #1 and #2, you're not allowed to book with points and rent to anyone except relatives and acquaintances. We've never exchanged, so I don't know the trading power of KBC. 

We bought from the P@P developer in 2004, before trust collections. We got a deed and Club points, so we use it like option #2. Maintenance fees are lower than points in the Hawaii Collection. If we quit the Club, we be using it like #3.

Still confused? I don't blame you. I'd still be confused too if it wasn't for all the help from other TUG members over the years.


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## cali-gal (Apr 10, 2016)

We also bought early--I think it was 2003. We bought from Sunterra, so paid developer rates.  I think I understand your explanation, but have a question. If we were to choose option #2, would we at that point be competing with all other club owners for reservations at the Hawaii resorts, including KBC? Right now we have no difficulty getting reservations for our preferred dates, which admittedly are shoulder seasons. Doesn't the "Hawaii Collection" consist of two properties in Hawaii and two not in Hawaii?  We'd likely have no interest in the Hawaii Collection resorts on the mainland.  At this point the only property we'd be interested in trading into is P@P.


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## Michael1991 (Apr 10, 2016)

cali-gal said:


> Doesn't the "Hawaii Collection" consist of two properties in Hawaii and two not in Hawaii?  We'd likely have no interest in the Hawaii Collection resorts on the mainland.  At this point the only property we'd be interested in trading into is P@P.




The Hawaii Collection owns weeks in 9 mainland resorts. Many think this is a major problem because there are now 40% more points owned in the collection than there is space in the two resorts that are actually in Hawaii. Since most people buy the Hawaii Collection to use the HI locations, the demand is much greater than the supply and availability is very competitive. 


These are the locations currently in the collection.

ARIZONA:
Sedona Summit Resort (Sedona, AZ)
CALIFORNIA:
Lake Tahoe Vacation Resort (South Lake Tahoe, CA)
Tahoe Beach and Ski Club (South Lake Tahoe, CA)
San Luis Bay Inn (Avila Beach, CA)
Palm Canyon Resort and Spa (Palm Springs, CA)
HAWAII:
Ka’anapali Beach Club (Maui, HI)
The Point at Poipu (Koloa, Kauai, HI)
NEVADA:
Cancun Resort (Las Vegas, NV)
Polo Towers Villas (Las Vegas, NV)
Polo Towers Suite (Las Vegas, NV)
UTAH:
Cedar Breaks Lodge & Spa (Brian Head, UT)


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## cali-gal (Apr 11, 2016)

Michael1991 said:


> The Hawaii Collection owns weeks in 9 mainland resorts. Many think this is a major problem because there are now 40% more points owned in the collection than there is space in the two resorts that are actually in Hawaii. Since most people buy the Hawaii Collection to use the HI locations, the demand is much greater than the supply and availability is very competitive...



Wow, what possible motivation would I have to give up my deed then? I can't see any up-side to get into The Trust with there only being two Hawaii properties. We _almost_ purchased points when they were first offered, but became uncomfortable when we didn't understand how it really worked. The salesperson wasn't helpful, just made us feel like we'd be foolish not to get into the points system. I think we dodged a bullet. Funny enough, the next day we went to Marriott and bought at the Maui Ocean Club for less than it would have cost us to get the smallest points package we were offered. We've been very happy with deeded weeks at both locations.


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