# In case of an accident in the rental car



## tiger1210 (May 7, 2015)

I know Hawaii is a no fault state. What happens when you're in an accident if you don't have their insurance but your auto policy covers you. I have been told they charge a ton of money on your credit card right away. I have AAA and I was hit by a deer in my rental car in California and they covered it. But, the rental car company, (Enterprise) wanted to charge things like "administrative fee of $150, and "loss of use" of $200 or so. Enterprise ended up waving those two fees since I assume they were dealing with AAA, and AAA wouldn't have any of that bull.

But, now I am kind of concerned about not buying Hawaii insurance ( I never do) if they're going to try and stick me with all kinds of fees.

Any thought on this?


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## DaveNV (May 7, 2015)

What does your insurance carrier say?  You're not uninsured if you're using your normal carrier to cover you.  I'd ask them for specifics, and ask your questions directly.

Dave


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## rickandcindy23 (May 7, 2015)

We signed up for coverage through our Costco American Express.  When we use our Amex to pay for the car rental, we automatically are charged $24.95 by Amex for the coverage.  Probably unnecessary, but when I read the policy I just felt better not to have the hassle at the rental counter.

We almost always need a car for at least 12 days, so it's only a little over $2 per day for the 12-day stay.  I believe the $24.95 flat fee covers a full month, if you need a rental car that long.


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## bastroum (May 7, 2015)

My rental was recently vandalized in Maui. I was covered under my Green AMEX card up to my deductible and State Farm afterwards. No charges were put on my card. I have had the rental clerks threaten that would happen, however, it's not true. If they did you can dispute the charge until the claim is paid.


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## T_R_Oglodyte (May 7, 2015)

I've not been through this personally. so what I post here reflects what seems to me to be the situation based on the investigations that I have done. 

My Visa credit cards provide liability for first and second party liability charges, including rental company charges for loss of use of a vehicle during repairs.  Important to note:

1. Within my country of residence (USA, in my case) the Visa coverage is secondary.  That is, VISA only provides coverage for what gets past my primary insurer (GEICO for my personal travel) and is included in the scope of their coverage.  Outside my country of residence, however, they become prime (except in named locales where they do not provide in coverage at all).

2. If I take any insurance coverage offered by a car rental car that negates coverage under my VISA policy.  So to be able to access the VISA coverage, I must decline all coverages for first and second party liability at the car rental counter. 

3. The VISA coverage is no added charge. As long as I pay for the rental with my VISA it's covered as long as I don't negate the coverage. 

With respect to comments upthread, one of the benefits of the AmEx coverage is that the AmEx is primary. IOW, if something happens you simply have AmEx take care of it; you don't need to notify the carrier for your personal insurance that anything happened.  As noted, however, you have to pay for that benefit. to the tune of around $25 per transaction.


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## SmithOp (May 7, 2015)

The clerks get incentives to sell the insurance and upsize the rentals, as stated by others check your ins coverage and pay with a card that adds coverage and you will have more than enough.


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## PigsDad (May 7, 2015)

T_R_Oglodyte said:


> With respect to comments upthread, one of the benefits of the AmEx coverage is that the AmEx is primary. IOW, if something happens you simply have AmEx take care of it; you don't need to notify the carrier for your personal insurance that anything happened.  As noted, however, you have to pay for that benefit. to the tune of around $25 per transaction.



I used to use the premium rental car insurance from my Amex @ $24.95 per rental, but now a few other cards are providing the same primary coverage for free.  One example is my United Explorer Visa card.  Now I use that for all auto rentals and save the $25.

I think there was a thread on this topic earlier this year in this forum.

Kurt


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## bevans (May 8, 2015)

I am currently in Europe having picked up a car at Charles De Gaulle for a 7 week vacation. When I rent a car in the USA I just use the insurance provided by the credit card company so I use my Visa card. When in Europe I use my Amex to get the additional coverage as the $24.95 is for the length of your rental up to 42 days maximum. As we have the rental for 44 days I will not have the additional coverage for the last two days but by then I should be okay. Curt


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## tiger1210 (May 8, 2015)

Thanks Steve Nelson. This too is my understanding when using my Visa. I am applying for benefits now for my deductible that AAA didn't cover. But Visa said they will cover that as secondary. Also, if I didn't have AAA insurance they would become the primary and that would help as well. This is all good to know. Thanks for all the replies.


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## taterhed (May 10, 2015)

For those of you using/thinking-about-using the Amex car rental benefit, two things:


The first time you activate the insurance, the process takes a long time (or did for me).  standing in the airport on the cell phone for 10 minutes while waiting to sign the contract for the rental car is not fun.
After you initially activate the Amex insurance, it is supposed to cover any subsequent car rental that you place on your Amex--without any input or action on your part.  Expensive for one-day rentals.  But, on my last rental (2 day quicky--didn't really use the car so wasn't worried) I was not charged/covered.  Not sure why.
Finally, the issue of "primary vs secondary"  and  rental agency coverage (damage waiver) makes a huge difference in who pays, who is primary and whether you'll get slapped with credit card charges until it's sorted out.

Know before you go.....great thread!


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## rickandcindy23 (May 10, 2015)

> The first time you activate the insurance, the process takes a long time (or did for me). standing in the airport on the cell phone for 10 minutes while waiting to sign the contract for the rental car is not fun.


This statement makes no sense to me.

We signed up for the coverage through Amex via a phone call, and it's free to sign up.  We never had to fill out paperwork at the time of the rental.  We signed up ahead of time, and when a car rental appears on our statement, we are also charged the $24.95.  No hassle at all.  The car rental counter has no idea we have the insurance.  We just tell them no to their insurance.  

Amex's coverage being primary appealed to us, which is why we chose it.  We are covered through our car insurance too.  The agents at the car rental desk are paid a premium, obviously, for selling the insurance, and they get snooty sometimes, when you say you have coverage.  They tell scary stories about loss of use for them, and how that is not covered under our auto policy.  We just smile and say, "We'll take our chances."  

One woman assigned us a terrible rental car that reeked of cigarette smoke, just because we wouldn't sign.  That was Advantage near LAX.  Never again.  She wouldn't switch the car to a nicer one, and they had dozens on the lot.  We kept the windows rolled down the entire time because the upholstery just stunk.  We were going to Disneyland, so we didn't care much about the car, and I got it for five days for about $80.


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## ConejoRed (May 10, 2015)

We also have the AMEX Coverage and we have found that a lot of rental agency's know when we tell them that we have the AMEX coverage and present the card that we don't need their coverage so they do not try to hard sell theirs. 

We had to file a small claim on a UK rental and the rental company did not charge anything to our card and just dealt directly with AMEX.  They did try to charge administrative and loss of use fees, but AMEX took care of arguing that part by asking for copies of the vehicle usage logs to verify that the car was out of service for the days they requested etc. (which I think the rental company could not provide since it was only a minor cracked tail light repair).  We just filed the claim online with AMEX during the next leg of our trip and AMEX took care of the rest of the process and I would readily recommend their coverage.  

We enrolled in the program long before we travelled and it is activated by charging the rental to the AMEX so I do not know why there was a need to activate at the rental counter as we have never had to do that.


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## Ken555 (May 10, 2015)

Rented today in the UK with AMEX coverage (and is just ~$18 for California residents). Rental agency did try to sell additional insurance, but when I declined they were quite friendly about it (I did email them previously to confirm third party liability coverage is included, and it is). I find it worth the normally absurd foreign transaction fee for using AMEX in order to have this benefit. While my other cards have similar coverage, I haven't had the time to read the coverage details carefully to verify they are similar while I know AMEX is good. This will be my only AMEX charge on this trip (which is really silly of them, since I'm just spending on other cards instead...not exactly what they want from their loyal cardholders). 


Sent from my iPad


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## ConejoRed (May 10, 2015)

We have been known to reserve and give them the Amex card details when picking a car up, but when returning it and doing the actual final payment of the rental, giving them a different card that does not charge a foreign transaction fee to do the final payment if there was no damage to the car when we rent in a foreign country (we have even paid in cash in return) to avoid the Amex exchange fees. We do closely document the return checkin to make sure they can't then try and claim imaginary damage later.  Never had anyone challenge the card change (although we usually use the same rental company each time when traveling to the UK and Europe). When we had the issue in the UK, we just paid with the Amex and paid the foreign transaction fee that time.  For U.S. rentals we just use the Amex card.


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## Ken555 (May 10, 2015)

ConejoRed said:


> We have been known to reserve and give them the Amex card details when picking a car up, but when returning it and doing the actual final payment of the rental, giving them a different card that does not charge a foreign transaction fee to do the final payment if there was no damage to the car when we rent in a foreign country (we have even paid in cash in return) to avoid the Amex exchange fees. We do closely document the return checkin to make sure they can't then try and claim imaginary damage later.  Never had anyone challenge the card change (although we usually use the same rental company each time when traveling to the UK and Europe). When we had the issue in the UK, we just paid with the Amex and paid the foreign transaction fee that time.  For U.S. rentals we just use the Amex card.




There's a word or two for this type of action, both negative.


Sent from my iPad


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## taterhed (May 11, 2015)

rickandcindy23 said:


> This statement makes no sense to me.
> 
> We signed up for the coverage through Amex via a phone call, and it's free to sign up. We never had to fill out paperwork at the time of the rental. We signed up ahead of time, and when a car rental appears on our statement, we are also charged the $24.95. No hassle at all. The car rental counter has no idea we have the insurance. We just tell them no to their insurance.
> 
> ...


 

Let me expand:

I do like the Amex insurance coverage. No question about it.

You can sign up (required before first use only) ANYTIME from home or on the computer. If, on the otherhand, you are a dummy like me and realize at the airport that you forgot to call Amex and sign-up for the program , you need to do it from your cell phone if you don't have wifi. After a long hold, the Amex rep transferred me to a 3rd party who read the entire 'legal advisorys and terms' sheet in halting speech. I wont be rude, but the individual was not a rapid or clear reader of technical english...if you get my drift. This took quite a long time to complete. All of this can be done on the computer (apparently) by checking a box and hitting 'enter'. My sign-up telephone call with Amex took at least 10 minutes total.  

My strong advice? Sign up for Amex rental insurance well ahead of time on a computer or from the comfort of your home--not from a cell phone in the airport....
and, if you take _any_ coverage from the rental car agency, realize that you may void or complicate your use of the Amex (or other credit card) insurance coverage.
Hope that clears it up.


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## ace2000 (May 11, 2015)

I see Steve's excellent summary above on Visa's coverage, and I appreciate that.  Can someone please describe what happens if I have an accident while covered under Visa's secondary coverage?  We probably rent cars about 4-5 times a year.  I've always declined the car rental's insurance in the past, and felt comfortable using my Visa card to pick up the slack.

Let's say I have an accident for $10K of damage with a car rental.  Then what happens afterwards, if I used my Visa?  I'm not positive I understand if I'm fully covered or not.


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## taterhed (May 11, 2015)

ace2000 said:


> I see Steve's excellent summary above on Visa's coverage, and I appreciate that. Can someone please describe what happens if I have an accident while covered under Visa's secondary coverage? We probably rent cars about 4-5 times a year. I've always declined the car rental's insurance in the past, and felt comfortable using my Visa card to pick up the slack.
> 
> Let's say I have an accident for $10K of damage with a car rental. Then what happens afterwards, if I used my Visa? I'm not positive I understand if I'm fully covered or not.


 
There is a good explanation on this website: http://www.creditcards.com/credit-card-news/car-rental-insurance-coverage-1273.php

Here's the rub using secondary coverage:

*What does my credit card cover?
*As a perk of membership, many credit cards offer some kind of rental car protection. Generally speaking, they do not cover things such as personal injury or personal liability, although you may have that coverage through your auto insurance and health insurance. But they do typically cover collision damage and theft protection.
For most cards, the coverage is _secondary_, meaning that if you have car insurance, *you have to file a claim there first (and your premium may go up).* But your credit card should step in and pick up where your auto insurer leaves off, paying the tab for your deductible, towing charges and other fees. However, as many frustrated cardholders have learned, the fine print can be tricky. Credit card companies have their own restrictions and exclusions and they, too, often refuse to pay some types of fees levied by car rental companies.
For all those reasons, it's important to check your coverage in advance.

Visa as of 2013:  http://www.creditcards.com/credit-c...-cards-rental-car-insurance-policies-1273.php 

Pay very close attention to the details--they shocked me.  "Sport Utility Truck"  Is that a Jeep?  That's what I rent in Hawaii!  "Unpaved roads"  You mean like the ones in Hawaii?  "Over $50,000"  You mean like the Caddy they gave me to drive? 

Lots of potholes there.  Think I'll call Amex and clarify next time!


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## ace2000 (May 11, 2015)

taterhed said:


> Here's the rub using secondary coverage:



Thanks for the info!  I'm ok with the risk of the rising premiums, since I would have to assume that risk even with my own car.  I just want to make sure there is no out of pocket expenses to worry about.  We don't have an AMEX card, so we always rent with a VISA.


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## Passepartout (May 11, 2015)

ace2000 said:


> Thanks for the info!  I'm ok with the risk of the rising premiums, since I would have to assume that risk even with my own car.  I just want to make sure there is no out of pocket expenses to worry about.  We don't have an AMEX card, so we always rent with a VISA.



In the interest of peace-of-mind, I'd be calling that handy customer service 1-800 number on the back of the card for clarification. Better to know ahead of time- either way.


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## taterhed (May 11, 2015)

Passepartout said:


> In the interest of peace-of-mind, I'd be calling that handy customer service 1-800 number on the back of the card for clarification. Better to know ahead of time- either way.


 
This ^^^^^

agreed 100%

Apparently the cards may have variations for each card/program.
Especially with large/expensive vehicles.

The Visa programs did appear to be well reviewed by various research sites.
But, I just found out I may have been uninsured the minute I left pavement last time in hawaii.  On a state road, not 4wd.   Better check first.


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## ace2000 (May 11, 2015)

I was under the impression that all Visa cards have this coverage - could be wrong about that though, so it is a good idea to verify.  Anyhow, here's what mine says...

_Auto Rental Collision Damage Waiver – Receive coverage, at no additional cost, for damage due to collision or theft. Just charge your entire rental transaction to your eligible Visa Signature card and decline the rental company’s collision damage waiver._


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## topmom101 (May 12, 2015)

I know the original question posed was about renting a car in Hawaii, but may I ask another? I go to Aruba every year for 4 weeks more or less. This coming June the total length of time will be 32 days. I have, in the past, used both Amex and Visa CC for my rentals. My insurance carrier at home is Allstate. Luckily, I have never needed to file a claim while driving in Aruba but I realize that could change anytime.  The rental company I use in Aruba includes third party liability and free second driver so both my husband and I can share the driving.  I don't mind paying the $24.95 AMex charge if their coverage is better than Visa. What do you think? Thanks for your input.


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## taterhed (May 12, 2015)

topmom101 said:


> I know the original question posed was about renting a car in Hawaii, but may I ask another? I go to Aruba every year for 4 weeks more or less. This coming June the total length of time will be 32 days. I have, in the past, used both Amex and Visa CC for my rentals. My insurance carrier at home is Allstate. Luckily, I have never needed to file a claim while driving in Aruba but I realize that could change anytime.  The rental company I use in Aruba includes third party liability and free second driver so both my husband and I can share the driving.  I don't mind paying the $24.95 AMex charge is their coverage is better than Visa. What do you think? Thanks for your input.





length of rental
country of rental
number of drivers (cost)
type of vehicle (jeep?,cost, suv, large etc...)
roads/beaches (off-road, dirt road, beach use)
I would call and speak with Amex/Visa and ask the questions.  Like I said:  I thought I was fully covered with Amex, but based on my rental (4wd,4 door jeep) and the roads I traveled on (some dirt) I may not have had ANY coverage during my week long rental.  Who knew?


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## esk444 (May 18, 2015)

Does anyone know how the liability works for American Express premium coverage?

If I get into an accident and it is my fault and I total two cars and injure someone in another car, is that going to be covered?  

American Express says liability is not covered, but I don't know if that means that if you get into an accident with a non-vehicle (i.e. like a building or a pedestrian) or nothing is covered in another vehicle that I cash damage.

I don't know if I should buy the ALI (Additional Liability Insurance), if AMEX covers it, or if my personal policy covers it.


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## Ken555 (May 18, 2015)

esk444 said:


> Does anyone know how the liability works for American Express premium coverage?
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I asked this question re liability recently as I rented a car in the UK. The rental company told me they have liability insurance and in combination with Amex I would be sufficiently covered. Read the fine print - it's likely that the rental company will include liability with every rental.


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## sjsharkie (May 18, 2015)

esk444 said:


> Does anyone know how the liability works for American Express premium coverage?
> 
> If I get into an accident and it is my fault and I total two cars and injure someone in another car, is that going to be covered?
> 
> ...



Liability is not covered with AMEX. If you hit a pedestrian with your car, my understanding is that AMEX would not cover.

Rental car companies generally cover the minimum liability required by law in that jurisdiction. So, you will be likely fine if it is a minor collision but not good if you hit two cars and injure someone per your example. 

Bottom line - know your personal policy coverage and what your rental car company covers so that you can make the right choice on additional liability insurance. 

Ryan

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## Henry M. (May 19, 2015)

I called my insurance company a while back and was told that I am fully covered within the US, as if I was driving my own car. They o not cover accidents outside the U.S. I have to recheck, but other cards include coverage like AmEx for free. 

I also read AmEx insurance was difficult to deal with. I eventually ended up dropping their automatic premium coverage, as most of the time I drive in the U.S.


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## esk444 (May 19, 2015)

emuyshondt said:


> I called my insurance company a while back and was told that I am fully covered within the US, as if I was driving my own car. They o not cover accidents outside the U.S. I have to recheck, but other cards include coverage like AmEx for free.
> 
> I also read AmEx insurance was difficult to deal with. I eventually ended up dropping their automatic premium coverage, as most of the time I drive in the U.S.



That sucks, the whole point of me wanting to use AmEx for primary coverage so it would be less of a hassle to deal with claims.  

I was thinking of dropping the AmEx automatic coverage after I went to Florida, and got charged like $12 for gas because the tank wasn't completely full when I returned it.  It was a separate charge two days after the regular car charge and AmEx automatically charged me another $24.95 like I got a new rental.  I've heard this happened to people that got charged later for going through unmanned tolls as well months later.  AmEx reversed the charges for me, but I could have easily missed it.


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## esk444 (May 19, 2015)

sjsharkie said:


> Liability is not covered with AMEX. If you hit a pedestrian with your car, my understanding is that AMEX would not cover.
> 
> Rental car companies generally cover the minimum liability required by law in that jurisdiction. So, you will be likely fine if it is a minor collision but not good if you hit two cars and injure someone per your example.
> 
> ...



I guess I still am confused as to what liability means.  If I get into a car accident with another person and damage their car, is that covered by Amex?  

If not, then doesn't it mean that I would be liable for the damages of the person's damages if I was at fault and then Amex wouldn't cover it (though the Avis would to the statutory limit).  If I am not at fault, then they would have to deal with it through their insurance.

In Hawaii, since it is a no fault state, does that mean I am not responsible at all for the damages I caused to other cars, since there is no determination of fault?


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## klpca (May 19, 2015)

A rock hit our rental car windshield back in 2009. I thought that the rental car company would just make a windshield repair - $50 and we'll call it even. Nope. For the first thirty days the company was very unreasonable to deal with. They wanted to replace the windshield and charge us for loss of use. They were rude on the phone. Of course I had to get our insurance company involved. Never again. Now we always use the AMEX primary insurance. I'll let them deal with the rental car company if necessary. 

Btw, when I followed up with them (rental car company) after not hearing from them for a month, they told me that they were able to repair the windshield. All of that time wasted for nothing.


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## Ken555 (May 19, 2015)

emuyshondt said:


> I called my insurance company a while back and was told that I am fully covered within the US, as if I was driving my own car. They o not cover accidents outside the U.S. I have to recheck, but other cards include coverage like AmEx for free.
> 
> 
> 
> I also read AmEx insurance was difficult to deal with. I eventually ended up dropping their automatic premium coverage, as most of the time I drive in the U.S.




It's been a very long time since I had a claim with Amex, back in 1990. And that was the standard credit card coverage, not the premium. My rental car in the UK supposedly had a damaged light due to a rock and Amex simply told me to charge the cost to the card and they reversed the charges. Simple, and couldn't be easier. Of course, things may have changed since then but I now buy the premium plan with them (~$18 for California residents) and the foreign transaction fee for peace of mind. And, I do plan on reviewing all my cc coverage options to verify this is the best option before my next trip.


Sent from my iPad


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## Conan (May 19, 2015)

If the Amex premium coverage doesn't include liability, I've been wasting my money on it.  I checked my auto insurance (Amica) and it clearly covers damage claims in a rental car situation to the same extent as if I owned the car, and as far as I can tell on a world-wide basis.

However, the Amica policy clearly states that it does not provide liability coverage for rental cars. 

I also have an umbrella policy with Amica, so I checked there next.

The umbrella policy clearly provides world-wide coverage for "bodily injury" caused by automobile -- $250,000 per person and $500,000 per event, worldwide. 

But the umbrella policy also says the following:
"We do not provide:
1. Automobile no-fault or any similar coverage under this policy; or
2. Uninsured Motorists Coverage, Underinsured Motorists Coverage, or any similar coverage...."

I understand Item 2.  
What the heck does Item 1 mean?


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