# What's your Favorite Airline for flight to Europe



## JoeWilly (May 4, 2015)

Please help,

We are flying Seattle to Amsterdam, economy class.  We don't have ff miles.  What is your favorite airline for flying to Europe?
What seats should we choose?


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## DeniseM (May 4, 2015)

My favorite is the CHEAPEST w/no more than one layover.

You should get a credit card that earns FF miles.

*You may want to check around and see if any of the airlines that you may use, have a good sign up bonus if you get their credit card.


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## MichaelColey (May 4, 2015)

JoeWilly said:


> What seats should we choose?


Once you have your tickets, take a look at SeatGuru.com.  Very useful.


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## Passepartout (May 4, 2015)

Our adult kid who lives in Seattle-land and flies frequently to Europe likes Emerates 1st and BA second. We are best served by, and amass miles with Delta, so that's who we choose. +1 for www.seatguru.com to help select seats.

Jim


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## PStreet1 (May 4, 2015)

I go with the least expensive one I can find that doesn't have a horrible schedule.  My preference is British Airways, but they rarely fit my price considerations.

You might consider an independent "tour" with a company like Gate1travel.com
They get good deals on hotels and airfare and you're on your own if that's what you want; they just "assist" with lodging and air and movement between cities if you want.


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## Gaozhen (May 4, 2015)

AIRLINE
I've flown United, Delta / Air France, American, and maybe a couple others. They are all about the same, with quality and comfort depending more on the type and age of the plane than the airline itself. Delta seems to have more of the older planes so more likely to find hard or tight seating. 

BAGGAGE
Air France and United have the highest potential fees for overweight or extra bags, while Delta doesn't always seem to charge all the fees (hit or miss, and if it's an Air France - Delta codeshare, it depends on point of origin). 

SEATS
Depending on the price, if the airline offers an economy-plus type option (a couple extra inches of legroom), I recommend buying it. Those 4-6" may sound like nothing, but on an 8+ hour flight you'll be thankful. Often it can cost anywhere from $29 each leg of the trip, to $79. 

If you can get an exit row grab it - even more legroom. But if there are two rows of exits in front of each other, don't get the front row as they usually won't recline. Pay special note to the * or other symbols on the seat map when booking, as they usually note which seats have "limited recline". 

INTERNATIONAL TIME CHANGE
FWIW you didn't ask but if you aren't frequent travelers to Europe, the jet lag may be a surprise. You might actually feel like you'll pass out or vomit from exhaustion the first day if you don't prepare, so after traveling to Europe from the mountain west frequently, try our tried and true method (if you are frequent travelers then disregard ):

Stay up really late for a few nights before you go, a little later each night
The night before your flight, stay up as late as possible, like 3am late
If there is a first and second leg of the flight, stay awake the first leg (might be hard but try) then sleep the entire second leg
If it is a nonstop flight, stay awake the first few hours then sleep the last ~6-8 hours
This should have you waking up as you land and be somewhat reset to the time zone there (if your flight lands in the AM)
(NOTE: This all assumes that your flight lands in the morning, but if it arrives in the afternoon, back up your timing so that you are "waking up" between 7am-10am Amsterdam time, which might mean sleeping the first portion instead of last.)
Do whatever you can to get comfortable and sleep. I have a whole system of airplane blanket around neck (more supportive than pillow), inflatable lumbar pillow, eye mask, earplugs, noise canceling headphones playing white noise, taking a melatonin (or other sleep aid if you prefer) at least 9 hours before landing/waking...people make fun but I'm asleep before the plane takes off! :zzz::zzz::zzz::zzz::zzz: 
Whatever you do, the key is: DO NOT NAP THE FIRST DAY and then go to bed at a "normal" time for the location
Viola!


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## Beaglemom3 (May 4, 2015)

It depends on where I'm going.


British Air

Virgin Atlantic

Swiss Air

Icelandair (on certain routes).



Never, ever, ever (I'll crawl back on ground glass before I fly them): Aer Lingus.  Where's the "Annual Strike Threat" icon ? 


-


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## x3 skier (May 4, 2015)

I fly business or first class using my hoard of FF miles but I second the comment of upgrading to economy plus from basic economy. It well worth the extra dollars according to my brothers and sister who flew Delta last year to London. 

As far as choosing an airline, it depends on your priorities between price, minimum connections and departure / arrival times. Economy or economy plus is all pretty much identical among the major carriers IMHO. Discount airlines mean you get what you pay for (or less).

My personal choice (using FF Miles) is fewest miles followed by minimum (one) connection and then departure time. If I can arrive early in the morning, it eliminates jet lag for me but I seem to be immune so that's why I put it last on the list. 

To compare fares, I recommend ITA Matrix. https://matrix.itasoftware.com
They also have an App. I use it almost exclusively when shopping for cash fares. 

Cheers


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## Ken555 (May 4, 2015)

Beaglemom3 said:


> Never, ever, ever (I'll crawl back on ground glass before I fly them): Aer Lingus.  Where's the "Annual Strike Threat" icon ?




Hmm...I'll be flying business class on Aer Lingus in a couple of weeks. Should I go break some glass?


Sent from my iPad


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## Beaglemom3 (May 4, 2015)

*Flyer Beware !*



Ken555 said:


> Hmm...I'll be flying business class on Aer Lingus in a couple of weeks. Should I go break some glass?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad



I don't mean to hijack the thread and can start a  "Worst Airline Ever" thread if requested Apologies to the OP, but I would like to respond.


I hope you fare better than I have.

Dublin to Boston, one way return home, May 2014. 

Over the years I have had to change my travel plans on 3 separate trips thanks to their inability to get management and labor to agree on something without the threat of a strike looming or actually taking place as it did last May. 

Last year we had to end our vacation early due to a strike which took place instead of the usual sword rattling with a last minute resolution. We had the choice of leaving early or getting out 8 days later if we stayed with Aer Lingus as all those who were contacted in a timely manner were able to make plans, however, we were never contacted. See next paragraph.  In our conversations with those who live in Ireland, this has become an all too common occurrence. To get out on another airline, as we were well outside of the advance purchase price timeline, we were looking at $2-3k per person, one way. Last minute ticketing prices. 

Mind you, we were never contacted by AerLingus despite the airline having our contacts numbers and email addresses. We found out by watching the evening news.
It took hours on the phone trying to get a flight out as we had booked with BA FF miles and kept on getting turfed back & forth between the two.

Finally got out on Titan Airways.

I emailed AerLingus' "customer service". A joke, just a joke. They had the Moxie to say that there was nothing that could be done for us, but "they hoped to see us aboard again". I emailed those at the highest level requesting a refund of our FF miles or a credit should we ever fly them again. They offered $100 (USD) to cover the both of us. Seriously ?

So, "flyer beware". It's spring again ...............when the thoughts of AerLingus turn to work stoppage actions


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## brigechols (May 4, 2015)

JoeWilly said:


> Please help,
> 
> We are flying Seattle to Amsterdam, economy class.  We don't have ff miles.  What is your favorite airline for flying to Europe?
> What seats should we choose?




My favorite is KLM.


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## Ken555 (May 5, 2015)

FWIW, I haven't flown them but I've heard excellent reviews from family and friends about Virgin Atlantic and Air New Zealand. I've flown Delta, BA, AA, Alitalia, Air France, and perhaps a few others. None are outstanding, though business class in any is better than coach in any. Best food by far was Alitalia. Worst service by far was Air France. SEA-AMS has KLM and/or Delta non stops (I saw both but don't recall if they were a codeshare of the same flight). The least expensive may be IcelandAir, which I've read mixed reviews of...but you can get a free stopover in Reykjavik, which I've heard is wonderful.

The advice to upgrade to Premium Economy is good, and you should consider it. Not all airlines define them the same, so be sure to read up on each that offers a price you consider.


Sent from my iPad


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## scotlass (May 5, 2015)

If you are considering FF miles for your flights, keep in mind that BA charges huge fees for flights to/from London.  I checked flights one time from Boston and the fees for two tickets were almost $1,400 plus the miles.  

We just returned from the UK with flights on Aer Lingus going over and United coming home.  The Aer Lingus flight was awful.  The seats were terribly close together.  My husband has mobility issues and needed help from the flight attendant (a strong male) just to get out of his seat to use the bathroom.  The arm rest did not go up all the way and he could not get enough balance to crawl over it.  Since I get up more than he does, we thought that having him in the second seat in would make more sense but it didn't.


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## Exmachina (May 5, 2015)

You can also buy FF miles, depending on the airline they cost 1.75c per mile to just over 2c a mile they can make a big difference


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## Jason245 (May 5, 2015)

JoeWilly said:


> Please help,
> 
> We are flying Seattle to Amsterdam, economy class.  We don't have ff miles.  What is your favorite airline for flying to Europe?
> What seats should we choose?



It looks like Delta has a direct flight from Seattle to Amsterdam. That is the one I would chose. 

Depending on how many people and  financial situation, I would probably splurge on business class as it is a ~9 hour flight (assuming you have the funds).


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## elaine (May 5, 2015)

we always fly coach on FF miles and travel with the family.  We try to pick airplanes with 2 seats on either side of the aisle, so someone gets the window and someone gets the aisle. Seems roomier than 3 seats together, plus no one waking us up in the middle of the night to get out of their seat.


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## Ken555 (May 5, 2015)

Do people even read the OP's original post before commenting?


Sent from my iPad


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## SMHarman (May 5, 2015)

JoeWilly said:


> Please help,
> 
> We are flying Seattle to Amsterdam, economy class.  We don't have ff miles.  What is your favorite airline for flying to Europe?
> What seats should we choose?


How old is everyone. 

Once everyone is verbal a nonstop is preferable but not so crazy making. 

Beyond that KLM is going to give you lots of options as it is the country's carrier. 

Delta is also part of skyteam and does free booze like the Europeans

Iceland is often cheaper but has the Iceland stopover. Stop and visit Iceland one way. Outbound it helps the jetlag. 

Beyond that the service in coach is similar. Ironically those flying am older fleet often have more legroom. In flight entertainment is usually phones and tablets these days so decide if that is something you need to base a decision on. 

Finally air lingus does us Immigration in Ireland which can be a benefit.


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## Jason245 (May 5, 2015)

Ken555 said:


> Do people even read the OP's original post before commenting?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad


I did. .


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## Passepartout (May 5, 2015)

Ken555 said:


> Do people even read the OP's original post before commenting?



I wondered that myself with several suggesting using FF miles- or business class, neither of which the OP has.

Oh well.

Jim


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## Jason245 (May 5, 2015)

Passepartout said:


> I wondered that myself with several suggesting using FF miles- or business class, neither of which the OP has.
> 
> Oh well.
> 
> Jim


Op can fly business..it just costs more.  I have paid that premium for the extra comforts on long haul flights.


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## Luanne (May 5, 2015)

Jason245 said:


> Op can fly business..it just costs more.  I have paid that premium for the extra comforts on long haul flights.



Depending on how many people are flying it can really add up.  I was appalled when I saw the difference in price between economy and business from the U.S. to Europe.

As I tell my dd, wouldn't you rather take that extra money and have it available when you get to your destination?


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## Passepartout (May 5, 2015)

Jason245 said:


> Op can fly business..it just costs more.  I have paid that premium for the extra comforts on long haul flights.



True, if money is no object, but reading between the OP's lines, it's pretty clear that he is cost conscious. Business class is about 4X the price of coach.

I may not be the most experienced frequent flyer, but casual observation as I wander back to my coach seat is that as far as I can tell, the large majority of those business and 1st class seats are occupied by people who were awarded them by their- or their employers' loyalty. Imo, darn few are cash paid upgrades.


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## Jason245 (May 5, 2015)

Passepartout said:


> True, if money is no object, but reading between the OP's lines, it's pretty clear that he is cost conscious. Business class is about 4X the price of coach.
> 
> I may not be the most experienced frequent flyer, but casual observation as I wander back to my coach seat is that as far as I can tell, the large majority of those business and 1st class seats are occupied by people who were awarded them by their- or their employers' loyalty. Imo, darn few are cash paid upgrades.



I just did a quick search using a random day in September. 

Coach with 1 stop - ~$1200
Coach non stop ~$2200
Business with 1 stop - ~$2200. 


Business is usually between 1.5-2X price, not 4X. It has a number of perks (shorter lines, express lines for customs, lounge access, more attentive flight staff, lie flat seats etc).  

It really just depends on how flexible you are.


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## Ken555 (May 5, 2015)

Jason245 said:


> Op can fly business..it just costs more.  I have paid that premium for the extra comforts on long haul flights.




While anything is possible, the OP clearly stated they are flying economy class.


Sent from my iPad


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## Jason245 (May 5, 2015)

Ken555 said:


> While anything is possible, the OP clearly stated they are flying economy class.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad



That might be because OP thinks business is very expensive. I was just trying to point out that it isn't always that way.


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## Ken555 (May 5, 2015)

Jason245 said:


> I just did a quick search using a random day in September.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Not sure what you searched, but I found other prices.

SEA-AMS 

Economy:
- with one stop rt: $1040
- nonstop rt: $1254

Business:
- with one stop: $3437 (IcelandAir)
- nonstop: $6860

There's every reason to support the choice of economy, with the advice to try to upgrade to premium economy if offered for additional room. Business is rarely worthwhile from a retail purchase standpoint. I only buy business with points.


Sent from my iPad


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## Ken555 (May 5, 2015)

Jason245 said:


> That might be because OP thinks business is very expensive. I was just trying to point out that it isn't always that way.




Very few things are "always" one way or another. In general, business is much more expensive than coach, your example notwithstanding and contrary to my own search...


Sent from my iPad


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## Jason245 (May 5, 2015)

Ken555 said:


> Not sure what you searched, but I found other prices.
> 
> SEA-AMS
> 
> ...



As I said, pricing and routing are always dependent on dates and flexability and capability to do research.


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## Ken555 (May 5, 2015)

Jason245 said:


> As I said, pricing and routing are always dependent on dates and flexability and capability to do research.




The only reason I continue to reply to your posts is to dissuade anyone from believing business class to Europe may easily be found to be not much more expensive than coach. That's an extremely high expectation to maintain, and while specials occur to rely upon them as a solution is really quite silly. I agree that it's always a good idea to search for business class just in case there is a special available, but never to consider it normally 1-2x coach fares...that would most likely just lead to disappointment.


Sent from my iPad


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## Jason245 (May 5, 2015)

Ken555 said:


> Very few things are "always" one way or another. In general, business is much more expensive than coach, your example notwithstanding and contrary to my own search...
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad



Quick example: 
Icelandair 1 stop Sept 22 - 29 is ~$2300 biz class.


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## Jason245 (May 5, 2015)

Ken555 said:


> The only reason I continue to reply to your posts is to dissuade anyone from believing business class to Europe may easily be found to be not much more expensive than coach. That's an extremely high expectation to maintain, and while specials occur to rely upon them as a solution is really quite silly. I agree that it's always a good idea to search for business class just in case there is a special available, but never to consider it normally 1-2x coach fares...that would most likely just lead to disappointment.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad



If you are creative and hang out in places like Flyertalk and read their forums, you might be amazed about the deals that can sometimes be found. 

Is it always the case? No. Do opportunities crop up? Yes. Part of the requirement is flexibility.


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## Ken555 (May 5, 2015)

Jason245 said:


> If you are creative and hang out in places like Flyertalk and read their forums, you might be amazed about the deals that can sometimes be found.
> 
> 
> 
> Is it always the case? No. Do opportunities crop up? Yes. Part of the requirement is flexibility.




ROFL. I do "hang out" at FlyerTalk every now and then, usually all of 15 minutes before I get tired of the attitude and need to relax. 

You're really just missing the point. For the general traveler (and I would hazard a guess that the OP would qualify for that designation) hanging out at FlyerTalk is likely not gonna happen. Your point that there are deals available, occasionally and depending on a variety of factors, does not change the fact that generally (ie. most of the time) business class is several times or more the cost of coach travel from North America to Europe.

Time for sleep (I'm in Europe at the moment...flying business back soon, bought on miles without any need of FlyerTalk...), and done responding to your posts here. My point has been made...probably multiple times. Hopefully the OP understands.


Sent from my iPad


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## Passepartout (May 5, 2015)

Jason245 said:


> Quick example:
> Icelandair 1 stop Sept 22 - 29 is ~$2300 biz class.



And by your example, Icelandair coach is $702. Or 1/3 the Biz price, and THAT's in a narrow body 757 or equivalent.

I'm done here as well.


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## JoeWilly (May 5, 2015)

Thanks everyone for your input.   You've been very helpful.  I tried to "hang out" on flyer talk, but I don't think that site is for me.  Way too much jargon to learn.  I haven't even found where they explain the jargon to try to learn.

I've got some more reading to do on seatguru.com and hope to book our flights tonight.  I learned today that Delta only opens up nine seats in Comfort + before the flight with a regular purchase (no ff miles).  Unfortunately, for the dates we want, Comfort+ isn't available.  I priced bus class-yikes.  I want to go to Europe but not for that price.

Thanks again for all the help


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## Pompey Family (May 6, 2015)

Ken555 said:


> The only reason I continue to reply to your posts is to dissuade anyone from believing business class to Europe may easily be found to be not much more expensive than coach. That's an extremely high expectation to maintain, and while specials occur to rely upon them as a solution is really quite silly. I agree that it's always a good idea to search for business class just in case there is a special available, but never to consider it normally 1-2x coach fares...that would most likely just lead to disappointment.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad



We fly business between London and the US every year (or Upper Class with Virgin) and we always buy the flights well in advance in the sales. Typically the price is about twice that of economy and is well worth it in my opinion. We have never paid 4x the price of economy.


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## youppi (May 6, 2015)

Sometimes, it's worth driving to Vancouver, BC, Canada and fly from there.


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## Gaozhen (May 6, 2015)

JoeWilly said:


> I learned today that Delta only opens up nine seats in Comfort + before the flight with a regular purchase (no ff miles).  Unfortunately, for the dates we want, Comfort+ isn't available.



Check the seat availability a week to a couple days before check-in, then again when you do check in. Usually more seats open up closer to the flights, and I can usually grab a comfort+ at that point and pay the fee then. Maybe not enough for everyone to upgrade (it's usually just me and husband so we can find 2), but see if you can scour a couple for the taller / longer legged in the group. Good luck!


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## jlp879 (May 6, 2015)

youppi said:


> Sometimes, it's worth driving to Vancouver, BC, Canada and fly from there.



Why would that be?


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## youppi (May 6, 2015)

jlp879 said:


> Why would that be?



Example, I did a search with Kayak, Sept 12 to Sept 29 both direct flight with Delta/KLM
Seattle to Amsterdam: 1423 USD
Vancouver to Amsterdam: 1307 USD

Depending on how many peoples, saving $100 per ticket may be interesting. 

The diff for 1 stop is $200 per ticket. $1321 USD (SEA) vs $1132 USD (YVR) for the same date.


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## Passepartout (May 6, 2015)

jlp879 said:


> Why would that be?



Difference in taxes & fees.


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## Luanne (May 6, 2015)

youppi said:


> Example, I did a search with Kayak, Sept 12 to Sept 29 both direct flight with Delta/KLM
> Seattle to Amsterdam: 1423 USD
> Vancouver to Amsterdam: 1307 USD
> 
> ...



I think you'd also have to factor in how much it might cost to drive, and park, in Vancouver.  

Are you getting a ride to the airport in Seattle?  Taking a shuttle?  Driving your car and parking there?

What would the cost of fuel be to drive to Vancouver and back, plus the cost of parking?


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## youppi (May 6, 2015)

jlp879 said:


> Why would that be?





Luanne said:


> I think you'd also have to factor in how much it might cost to drive, and park, in Vancouver.
> 
> Are you getting a ride to the airport in Seattle?  Taking a shuttle?  Driving your car and parking there?
> 
> What would the cost of fuel be to drive to Vancouver and back, plus the cost of parking?



I agree with you. All those fees must be part of the comparison and also how much your time worth (driving 2h30 twice + time at custom).


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## Ken555 (May 14, 2015)

Beaglemom3 said:


> I hope you fare better than I have.
> 
> [...]
> 
> So, "flyer beware". It's spring again ...............when the thoughts of AerLingus turn to work stoppage actions



While not a work stoppage, Aer Lingus emailed me today that they have replaced their scheduled plane with one from Omni Air and that this plane has no business class (nor premium economy). BA (I'm traveling on an award ticket) kindly offered to refund my Avios (and leave me stranded in Europe) or confirm the economy ticket. In fact, the BA rep took some pleasure in informing me that they have no responsibility to assist due to this being an Aer Lingus flight (even though I booked via them). 

Delightful! 

Now it seems I need to spend another hour on the phone (post-travel, per the rep, though I'm trying to call now - update: BA disconnected the call again after ~25 minutes) to "request" a refund of the difference in Avios from business class to economy (I've read online that apparently Aer Lingus is required to refund 75% of the cost...not sure if it's worth the effort, though). They certainly don't make it easy.

Not a good start with Aer Lingus for me. Anyway, I think I'll go have a beer in Dublin.


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## Passepartout (May 14, 2015)

We just came in to Amsterdam on a Delta A330 in Economy Comfort. It sure wasn't lay flat, but was definitely better than coach. I'd use them again. Oh, yeah. We will later this month going home. FWIW, I still prefer Boeing jets, but only wanted to rent a couple of seats for 8 hours or so.

Such is life.

Jim


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