# Join the Rebellion - RCI POINTS cleaning fees rant.



## stonebroke (Aug 27, 2014)

This summer we did an RCI points exchanges at two different resorts and in each case we were charged a cleaning fee during our stay at those two resorts.  
Both times I was told by the person at the resort that this was a fee that RCI charged.    Both times I told the person at the desk that I don’t believe that is true but that the resort charges it and that not all resorts charge a cleaning fee and the points resort I am part of does NOT charge a cleaning fee. At the second resort (and I am not naming either resort because both are lovely places with nice people working there)  a man identifying himself as the assistant manager came from the back room and said he felt he could help and then promptly told me that indeed the cleaning fee was paid to RCI.  

We talked for awhile and I pointed out that #1.  Not all resorts charged this.  #2.  My home (points) resort doesn’t charge this and #3. It made no sense for RCI to charge it.   He continued to assert that the fee went to RCI but that perhaps the money did come back to the resort.

I do not feel resorts should charge extra (even for short week stays)  if they choose to be part of the RCI points system then any extra cleaning fees should be absorbed by the overall maintenance fees of their owners as their owners are going to other resorts and in many cases not paying a cleaning fee.   I think it should be part of the cost of being part of the system. 

 It is wrong of RCI to allow resorts to charge this…I am sure the RCI weasels that made promises to the resorts when they joined the points system but RCI needs to take a stand and RCI exchangers should take a stand.   

My rebellion begins  with the evaluation…After each stay RCI asks for an evaluation of the resort and the exchange… and I have begun knocking the resort rating down and specifically commenting that it is because of the cleaning fees.    I also plan to do the same with my reviews of the resort on the  RCI website.   

I don’t think RCI hiding it at the bottom of an exchange description sufficient notice about these cleaning fees nor does it make it right.

I would welcome other suggestions on this or what you do, have done or plan to do.


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## DeniseM (Aug 27, 2014)

Many resorts charge additional fees, even when it's not an RCI exchange - it is what it is.


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## presley (Aug 27, 2014)

I think they have improved the notice, at least via the HGVC portal.  I now get a pop up window explaining all the extra fees before the booking page.
There really are a lot of add on fees for many of the RCI points stays.  It's one of the reasons why I got rid of RCI points on one of my soon to be former timeshares.  The extra fees weren't worth it to me.


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## persia (Aug 27, 2014)

I hate hidden fees but they are what they are.  My cable company charges me an extra couple bucks for sports.  I hate sports.  They still charge it and I still pay it.  RCI throws up a disclaimer which often lists the fees you may be charged.  Yes, we all just click through without reading it, but it is there...


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## PigsDad (Aug 27, 2014)

stonebroke said:


> I do not feel resorts should charge extra (even for short week stays)  if they choose to be part of the RCI points system then any extra cleaning fees should be absorbed by the overall maintenance fees of their owners as their owners are going to other resorts and in many cases not paying a cleaning fee.   I think it should be part of the cost of being part of the system.



On the other hand, a person who does 2 & 3 day stays will generate more cleanings (expenses for the resort) than the person who does only 7 day stays.  Why do you think that those who do shorter stays should not pay for the extra expense that they generate for the resort?

Kurt


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## pacodemountainside (Aug 27, 2014)

Wyndham charges the  same  HK fee based on unit size whether you stay there one  day or  seven.  Let's face it, a unit has to be  cleaned  after every  stay. Why should this burden fall on  all owners?

It is true   RCI allows  resorts to   to  establish 1-3/4/5 rule   and  Disney to impose $95 fee.

Some resorts do impose  activities  fee. Some resorts charge for parking.    Some resorts  have free welcome party.

It is up to individual if they want to  accept resort terms  and conditions.

I seriously doubt  HK fee goes to RCI.


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## missyrcrews (Aug 27, 2014)

pacodemountainside said:


> Wyndham charges the  same  HK fee based on unit size whether you stay there one  day or  seven.  Let's face it, a unit has to be  cleaned  after every  stay. Why should this burden fall on  all owners?
> 
> It is true   RCI allows  resorts to   to  establish 1-3/4/5 rule   and  Disney to impose $95 fee.
> 
> ...



We stayed at Sunday River (Maine) Grand Summit's resort this past summer.  We are weeks owners and stayed 7 full days.  We paid a $245 housekeeping fee at the end of the week...even though I never had housekeeping come in.  Yes, this was noted on the booking page...we did it this one time...I will NEVER stay at that resort again.  They made their $245 from me this time, but they've cut off their nose to spite their face.  And yes, I knocked the resort on their rating.


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## pacodemountainside (Aug 27, 2014)

stonebroke said:


> This summer we did an RCI points exchanges at two different resorts and in each case we were charged a cleaning fee during our stay at those two resorts.
> Both times I was told by the person at the resort that this was a fee that RCI charged.    Both times I told the person at the desk that I don’t believe that is true but that the resort charges it and that not all resorts charge a cleaning fee and the points resort I am part of does NOT charge a cleaning fee. At the second resort (and I am not naming either resort because both are lovely places with nice people working there)  a man identifying himself as the assistant manager came from the back room and said he felt he could help and then promptly told me that indeed the cleaning fee was paid to RCI.
> 
> We talked for awhile and I pointed out that #1.  Not all resorts charged this.  #2.  My home (points) resort doesn’t charge this and #3. It made no sense for RCI to charge it.   He continued to assert that the fee went to RCI but that perhaps the money did come back to the resort.
> ...



You probably should join forces with "grandmasusan"!

http://tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=212780


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## stonebroke (Aug 27, 2014)

pacodemountainside said:


> Wyndham charges the  same  HK fee based on unit size whether you stay there one  day or  seven.  Let's face it, a unit has to be  cleaned  after every  stay. Why should this burden fall on  all owners?
> 
> It is true   RCI allows  resorts to   to  establish 1-3/4/5 rule   and  Disney to impose $95 fee.
> 
> ...





First off I never said the Housekeeping fee (HK) went to RCI...i said that is what i was told by both resorts. 

And obviously as PigsDad pointed out staying 2 or 3 days does generate more cleaning...my dispute would be that when a resort becomes part of the RCI points system and offers stays less than one week then that now becomes part of their ongoing expenses.  Most resorts (with the exception of some (obviously Sunday River grand Resort) figure the weekly cleaning into the annual MF and owners are charged accordingly.  Some points resorts  including where I own do not charge the cleaning fee but the room is cleaned so those fees are already being paid by me...

My point is those charges (and maybe a whole bunch more) shouldn't just be accepted without at least some sort of objection and it seems to me the most obvious place to do that is in the comment cards...and maybe even a letter to the homeowners association...or maybe my HOA's only begin charging cleaning fees to owners of resorts that charge cleaning fees.

And while it is up to the individual whether we accept the terms and conditions of a resort (and whether or not we choose to stay there)...we can let the resort know that those terms and conditions are not acceptable...perhaps if some resorts cherished gold crown ratings slip away they will sit up and take notice.


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## tschwa2 (Aug 27, 2014)

I think the ones that don't charge for less than 7 days are more in the minority than the ones that do.  Originally I think it was the other way around but over the last 5 years the shift has definitely been to charge.  It is really up to the HOA to decide if they want to make owners (even those that never chose to switch to points) and those that may have switched but still predominately use full week stays if they want to absorb some or all of the expenses to clean units multiple times during the week for short stays.  The only one that I own (out of several) is one that provides daily housekeeping anyway.  They don't charge any extra to do the full cleaning that is required between guests.  The seven others that allow partial weeks stay charge between $40 and $90 for the extra housekeeping for either RCI points stays or for more than one reservation adding up to seven days.


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## Ron98GT (Aug 27, 2014)

*Join the Rebellion???*



stonebroke said:


> This summer we did an RCI points exchanges at two different resorts and in each case we were charged a cleaning fee during our stay at those two resorts.
> Both times I was told by the person at the resort that this was a fee that RCI charged.    Both times I told the person at the desk that I don’t believe that is true but that the resort charges it and that not all resorts charge a cleaning fee and the points resort I am part of does NOT charge a cleaning fee. At the second resort (and I am not naming either resort because both are lovely places with nice people working there)  a man identifying himself as the assistant manager came from the back room and said he felt he could help and then promptly told me that indeed the cleaning fee was paid to RCI.
> 
> We talked for awhile and I pointed out that #1.  Not all resorts charged this.  #2.  My home (points) resort doesn’t charge this and #3. It made no sense for RCI to charge it.   He continued to assert that the fee went to RCI but that perhaps the money did come back to the resort.
> ...


You complain that that two resorts are charging you a cleaning fee.  You want us to join the rebellion against resorts charging a cleaning fee.  But you wont mention the resorts I'm suppose to rebel against


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## vacationhopeful (Aug 27, 2014)

tschwa2 said:


> I think the ones that don't charge for less than 7 days are more in the minority than the ones that do.  Originally I think it was the other way around but over the last 5 years the shift has definitely been to charge.  It is really up to the HOA to decide if they want to make owners (even those that never chose to switch to points) and those that may have switched but still predominately use full week stays if they want to absorb some or all of the expenses to clean units multiple times during the week for short stays.  ......



I agree - my one resort is setup with either a FRI or SAT checkin/checkout by floors. On those days, EXTRA staff is brought in to properly and quickly turnover the units between 10AM and 4PM. When you start to get 5 unit turn over on 5 different floors - you can NOT get the ecomony of a large crew doing a floor with 10 units TIMES the 7 or 8 different floors done on either a FRI or SAT. It costs MUCH MORE and is slower ...


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## PassionForTravel (Aug 27, 2014)

I understand what everyone is saying that yes it cost a resort more when multiple people have short stays rather than one long stay, but the point that stonebroke is trying to make is that the resorts knew about those extra costs are when they chose to be rci points and they decided they the cost of providing those extra cleanings was less than the benefit they got from being rci points and selling that feature. I personally don't think rci should allow those charges, just like I don't think they should allow resort fees.

But lets be honest its the sales department that wants the shiny new item to sell and they really don't care about the long term cost. The whole time that Wyndham was trying to sell us travelshare not once did they mention extra cleaning fees even though they charge them.

Ian

Ian


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## WinniWoman (Aug 28, 2014)

I usually don't exchange anymore and don't belong to RCI any longer and just recently did an exchange through DAE. I am a weeks owner. If I am charged a cleaning fee it will be the last time I exchange. What difference does it make if the original owner stays there or I as an exchanger stay there? How does that generate more cleaning? The original owner has paid his/her maintenance fees and that should cover it. Also, if you are trading down, let's say from a two bedroom to a one bedroom, it is less cleaning. I just think it is outrageous. As missycrews experienced- $245 for cleaning?! Are you kidding me! Boy does that bring the cost of your vacation way up!

Now with points and shorter stays, that is a bit different, but then the fees should be posted- SCREAMING on the page for the potential exchanger to see. I am convinced this is why a lot of the resorts are instituting later check in and earlier check-out times- it is very hard to keep up with all the shorter stay cleaning. Hard enough to get cleaning staff and now they need more- plus the expense of it all. The Points system did this to a lot of the resorts.. Remember- these are "homes" they are cleaning, not hotel rooms! I think it will get even worse in the future with misc. fees, etc. Honestly, I probably- if I were a points owner-rethink it and go back to being a weeks owner- and just visit the home resort-all the trading and membership fees add up and it is just not worth it in a lot of cases. Rent to go elsewhere.


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## rickandcindy23 (Aug 28, 2014)

The fact is that smaller resorts have stayed out of the points game because they cannot afford to have housekeeping more than the once per week.  So those who choose to charge for housekeeping for points exchanges of less than 7 days are going to get complaints.  

We chose not to go that direction at Val Chatelle because we would need to pay housekeepers mid-week for a full clean occasionally.  So this is not guaranteed hours for a housekeeper, either, with only six units.  

Someone has to pay that charge, and it's right to charge the exchanger, in my opinion.  That is looking at it as an HOA board member of a very small resort.  

Timeshares were made to be 7 nights.  

I am more bothered by resorts that charge a fee for weeks exchanges, like Grand Pacific Resorts.  Annoying.  

Resorts are taught to lie about housekeeping fees.  If RCI collected it, they would collect it when you book the week.  The resort collects the fee, and that is exactly where that fee stays--with the resort.


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## stonebroke (Aug 28, 2014)

*A narrowly focused rebellion*

On poster above seems to feel that by not naming the resort my argument somehow loses its punch…perhaps…but the point is as pointed out by others…it is a much bigger than a specific  resort…more and more resorts are doing it, and I didn’t want the focus to be about XYZ Resort.

I understand the problem of additional cleaning is an additional cost to the resort…I also understand pressures that these costs might possibly put on the HOA but the HOAs can’t operate in a vacuum…they should realize that in theory we are all trading in and out on a level playing field…and PassionForTravel gets what I was trying to say (and says it probably more eloquently)…in that “the resorts knew about those extra costs when they chose to be RCI points and they decided that the costs of providing those extra cleans was less that the benefit they got from being RCI points and selling that feature.”

An HOA must act in the best interest of its members…but that should include those who always stay during their week and those who trade out…and there also should be a realization that the people who trade in are in essence guests of those who traded out.

My rebellion I admit is somewhat narrowly focused…lowering my ratings and pointing out the additional fees in my reviews…and I submit to the readers here that is something they also can do.  The resorts can choose how they will respond and if owners of those resorts begin getting less points or lower TPU perhaps the message will have gotten through...and perhaps  front desk people will taught not to lie and admit that it is a fee the resort is charging and NOT RCI.

Absolutely RCI should be posting these fees for all to see in a prominent location before a trade is made and providing documentation of all fees with the confirmation…so that resorts cannot be adding fees to trades that were made months before any fees were put in place.


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## bogey21 (Aug 28, 2014)

rickandcindy23 said:


> .
> We chose not to go that direction at *Val Chatelle* because we would need to pay housekeepers mid-week for a full clean occasionally.  So this is not guaranteed hours for a housekeeper, either, with only six units.



Val Chatelle III was our favorite exchange back when our kids were younger and we went skiing every year.

George


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## tschwa2 (Aug 28, 2014)

Personally I would rather not have my MF's go up $60-$80 or more depending on how many people use the resort for short stays.  Points gives you the option for a short stay but the extra housekeeping fee keeps it from becoming a 1 and 2 night road motel because exchangers think twice before booking multiple short stays when they have to pay more.  This way if you use the option you pay.  If you don't you don't.  Sometimes it is more cost effective to book the whole week, sometimes it is better to book a hotel for a one or two night stay.  The middle ground which I am ok with is to semi subsidize multiple cleanings.  If a normal cleaning cost $60 for a 2 br unit then bill MF's for $80 and let the cleaning fee charged for the short stay come to $40.


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## pacodemountainside (Aug 28, 2014)

Let's do a very  quick look at how TSs evolved.

Started as fixed, fixed 20 year RTU.

Then floating weeks  and II and RCI.

But basic premise was people generally start week long  vacations on Friday, Saturday or Sunday so resorts staffed accordingly to achieve efficiency.

Then Fairfield introduced points in 1991. They simply allowed 1 HK credit per 1,000 points. Usage is based on unit size as takes about same effort whether one stays a night or a week.

Around 2002 Feds mandated Developers start paying MF on unsold inventory. Increased MF revenue , but at a price. Developers starting doing nightly stays resulting in much more wear and tear on units. Resorts found they needed to renovate units around 4-5 years rather than 5-6. Of course,  HK costs increased as well as staffing check in desk.

Also around this time RCi introduced points program.

These changes threw things out of whack.

I fully agree on 7 night stays it is not fair to charge a HK fee if RCI  deposit  includes.  However,  on nightly stays some one has to pay extra cost and it should not be HOA..

While RCI  does set minimum standards for  resorts  and rates  up accordingly, it is unrealistic for them to get involved in  resort fees for  Internet, phone charges,  safe deposit boxes,  activities fees,  HK fees, transportation fees,  unit assignment,  pets, smoking,  lost key charges,   ad infinitum

Taking Wyndam  Plus Partners as an example  a one night 2 BR  week day  high season stay is 22K points or  around  $120 while week end night is 37K or  around   $200.   And  a $49 booking fee plus probably HK fee so very pricey. 


As I posted before, if you do not like specific   Resort polices take your business elsewhere. Titling at windmills just does not work.

Fearlessly forecast  it will get  " worser"  as BODs  struggle to  keep MF low..  Think  BC  and the  free shuttle bus.


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## WinniWoman (Aug 28, 2014)

With the exchange I just did with DAE, the fine print in the confirmation only states generically that there may be additional fees charged by the resort. So I guess now before you make an exchange you'd better call the resort first to ask if there are any additional fees so you know a head of time whether or not you even want to make the exchange?


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## rickandcindy23 (Aug 28, 2014)

The "fees" definitely have to do with the exchange company you use.  That doesn't mean RCI gets the fees, of course, but it means RCI makes concessions to some resorts to allow fees.  GPR are some of those.  

Twin Rivers in Fraser is going to RCI Points and I am SO AGAINST it.  The resort is 34 years old or older. I have been spreading the word for years that Twin Rivers is great for RCI PFD and a great resort for PIC with Wyndham. There are literally 20-25% of weeks available right now for people to take, but Twin Rivers' new HOA BOD is denying owners from getting additional weeks, so they will have inventory to sell as RCI Points.  

I am sick about it.  I am going to continue using our two owned weeks as PIC with Wyndham, so it doesn't affect me at all, except they are turning down MF's a new buyer will bring to the coffers.  I do know of at least two people who wanted to take deeded weeks at Twin Rivers, but the resort says no, you cannot have those weeks.  Stupid. You would turn away dues-paying owners to keep weeks to sell as RCI Points.  NO ONE WILL DO IT, stupid people.  Where is your sales force?  Who are you going to suck into your stupid plan, you unqualified bunch of board members?  

Yes, I am really angry.  

All point systems get charged fees for housekeeping.  You use so many, and when you are lopsided, usage: housekeeping, you gotta pay.  So no cheap stays at the WorldMark Estes Park for me.  I have to pay that HK fee. 

Same with Shell.

Same with Wyndham.

The Shell resort gets the HK fee directly into their resort (they charge it to the person after all HK credits are used).


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## Dean (Aug 31, 2014)

It certainly costs the resorts more in cleaning fees as well as other fees for the off schedule checkins.  To recoup those fees is reasonable. However, some of the resorts have taken to this as a money making tool it seems.  Also, it doesn't have to be listed to be charged.  I've already had one location that did not have it listed but did charge a fee and it seems based not their approach and fee structure that they were purposefully doing it that way.


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