# Timeshares as second homes?



## GregT (Aug 7, 2018)

All, 

The future of Timesharing thread that is going separately is thought provoking, and caused me to think about my timeshares as a surrogate for a second home.   I've heard people who use their second home frequently and love it, and those who love it at first, but tire of maintenance and cleaning requirements.  

I've considered buying a Maui property as a second home, but I can't justify it because to buy what is comparable to my timeshares would cost millions.  Literally.  The Kaanapali Alii has a 2BR OF unit on a high floor listed for $5M -- and has a $2,000 monthly HOA fee.  It's staggering, and my MOC units are comparable (if not better) in terms of location and amenities.

Plus having a collection of timeshares provides variability -- being able to go to Ko Olina, Waikiki, Princeville and Waikoloa and stay in high quality properties for varied length of stay is awesome. Plus easy proximity to Palm Desert from SoCal.   Even last minute trips are possible via Open Season in HGVC, Flexchange in II, and discounted points in Marriott.

Accordingly, I really feel the timeshare collection is superior to a second home, and I'm curious how other TUGgers feel about it.  I would love to hear from those who have a second home and also have timeshares, and how they well they complement one another.  

Please advise and thanks!

Best,

Greg


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## rhonda (Aug 7, 2018)

Greg,

We have both: timeshare since 2000; 2nd home since 2006.  For the first several years of owning the 2nd home, things seemed wildly unbalanced.  It was difficult to justify traveling _anywhere_ other than the 2nd home.  But we got over it!  

The 2nd home is about 90 minutes drive from the primary and seems "worlds away."  It immediately became the weekend house and we went nearly every weekend WITH our pets.  Not having to put animals in the kennel just to get away from town was a huge draw for us ... a driving reason for buying the 2nd home.  Given the curious twists and turns of life, I'm now living at "the weekend house" full-time ... but that is a different story that starts with a fire at the primary and a concurrent but separate story line involving our horses.

Something I wrote in 2007 on a Disney timeshare site regarding both:
Link: https://www.disboards.com/threads/dvc-vs-vacation-home.1374808/#post-17322609

Copy/Paste from 2007 thoughts:
Well ... let's see. We own both DVC and a weekend/vacation home. So far, we keep the home for our family's use and have not asked it to "earn its keep" as a rental property. How do they stack up?

*The Vacation Home - PROs*

The house is always ready for our arrival. No competition for scheduling. No blackout dates. 
Our house. Our rules. (18 over for Easter Brunch? Family wants to visit in a caravan of motorhomes? No problem.)
Bring the pets! We have parrots ... and the house is furnished with large cages for each. 
All our stuff -- exactly as we left it. Everything we need is already there, no need to "pack" just to go to the vacation home.
Looking for appreciation as the years go by.
Wonderful neighbors and plenty of community participation.
The joy of decorating the weekend home. Finally, a place to show off things handed down from my grandmother.
Always having an excuse to visit Home Depot. (The vacation home becomes a "free pass" for everything we wanted to buy for our primary residence but couldn't quite justify??)
*The Vacation Home - CONs*

Every visit has a "to do" list. We are _always_ fixing stuff. (Not always a bad thing -- much of the work is both relaxing and rewarding. Again, repair work means a trip to Home Depot!)
3 hours cleaning on Sunday afternoon before returning to the real world.
Mortgage + Insurance + Property Taxes + repairs/reserve. (Sure, tax advantages soften the impact.)
Add to the above Pest Control + 2nd set of phone and utility bills, etc.
Mowing the lawn. (I've really enjoyed the winter break ... but spring and the growing season is right around the corner.)
The difficulty of justifying vacations elsewhere. (It just seems strange ... and just a little _wrong_ to go elsewhere??)
Only one location.
*DVC - PROs*

We show up, enjoy the place, leave. (No repairs, no lawn to mow, no irrigation leaks, the plants always look nice, etc.)
Mousekeeping!
Multiple resorts w/in DVC ... and a variety of vacation destinations beyond.
Adjustable "right size" contract. Buy what you plan to use. 
Share costs across a large group of owners.
Enjoy amenities like full service spa, pool hopping, many restaurants, etc.
Friendships across a large virtual community here.
*DVC - CONs*

Risk of not getting the reservation you wish exactly _where_ and _when_ you want it.
No pets.
Pack, lug, unpack ... <vacation> ... pack, lug, unpack. (Although the Owners Locker service really helps on this front!)
Not my rules ... but I'll abide by them.
Every visit is wrapped in planning. Scheduled arrival, scheduled departure. Can't simply _stay_ if we want ... and we aren't likely to allow a last minute invitation interfere with our travel. 
Both have their joys, risks and rewards. The vacation home is a huge responsibility -- even if you chose to use a property manager to address maintenance, rentals, etc. We'll hope for a corresponding payoff years down the road. Comparatively, DVC is sorta "wash'n'wear" if you know what I mean.


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## Panina (Aug 7, 2018)

I use timeshares like you as a second home.  I do not have to worry, is my place ok? I do not have to do any maintenance.  If a disaster occurs, my loses and expenses are minimized.  I have choice to go somewhere else if I want. 

My husbands family has a New Jersey shore home and when the hurricane occurred a few years back, it was completely flooded, you could not get access into the town for weeks and getting contractors to gut and rebuild were difficult to get.  Very expensive, time consuming and aggravating. Our timeshares that had damage, no worries, management took care of everything.

If I thought one of my timeshare destinations could be a place I wanted to live full time in the future, then a second home ownership would then have value.


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## klpca (Aug 7, 2018)

It is exactly how we think of ours. We have a few friends who have second homes. They seem to do a lot of maintenance - half of their visits it seems. My husband doesn't enjoy tinkering around on his vacation so timeshares are a better fit for us. I've shared this before - my husband says that his favorite thing about timesharing is calling maintenance to report a problem and have someone come to our unit (usually with 15 min) and fix it for "free". (You can tell, he really hates fix-its). The only downside I see with timesharing as a second home is that it would take a bit of effort to string multiple weeks together for a month long visit. But it's not impossible.


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## vacationhopeful (Aug 7, 2018)

I brought my first house in 1975. And built my vacation home in 1977. About $35,000 total (land, cabin and used furniture). And the builder went bankrupt (finished my house after my little talk with him .. see note below).

Sold the first house YEARS ago while I still have the vacation home. I have out owned all my "vacation home" neighborhood friends over the decades ... I would bet my current neighbors refer to my house, as that "old lady's place". Yes, taxes have gone up as did the insurance bill. I refuse to get CableTV BUT have 80+ DVDs to play if I want noise in the background. Plus I have 75+ Reader's Digest Condensed books to read in the cabin's corner bookcase.

I have redone the kitchen, the windows, all flooring, the bathroom and all the interior trim & doors. Rebuilt the deck after the first one rotted away (not pressured treated wood) and changed the layout for more deck towards the wooded backyard.

I have deer wandering around the place regularly .. but seen more black bears than I like. And have the pictures to PROVE what bears do in the woods.

My sister, a decade younger, used my vacation house as her STUDY CABIN while in college .. that was her story which she still sticks by 35+ years (and 3 sons) later. Her boyfriend back then, is her husband today, says "no comment".

Rather give up the timeshares ANY DAY of the week over the vacation home.

And my current cabin bills are about: Taxes $2000, Insurance $955, Electric $925
or for a total bills under $325 monthly.

*NOTE ... LITTLE TALK:* I got a phone number for the builder, called and told him, I had about $500 left to my name. I wanted my vacation home FINISHED but if he chose not to finish it, my 2 choices left were:
1) Spend the $500 on a lawyer to write him a letter or two.
2) Skip lunch from my job in Center City Philadelphia and ride the subway down to South Philly, spend my last $500 and GET GREAT PERSONAL SADISFACTION.

The first Rocky movie came out later that same year.


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## CalGalTraveler (Aug 7, 2018)

The pros and cons above sum it up well. We own both a vacation home and 3 timeshares. The annual vacation home costs are substantial (ballpark $15 - $20k annually - which makes timeshare MF look cheap by comparison) and we have upcoming capital expenditures with a kitchen that will need remodeling. Tradespeople are expensive and hard to find availability in resort communities for repairs and maintenance. Seems like I am constantly scheduling repairs (the mountains are very hard on homes) and we are always fixing things which doesn't make for good relaxation.

We finally started renting it out via AirBnB/VRBO to cover costs because we found that we weren't using it much as the kids got older and our kids are not interested in going there anymore.  DH loves to ski and dreams of spending winters there when he retires...so does not want to sell yet.

I like the options that a vacation home brings.  We will be able to sell the vacation home for 2x what we paid as it has appreciated in value (can't do that with a TS).  It also provides us with tax benefits e.g. if we do a 1031 exchange with a rental closer to home for one of our kids to live when they graduate. We could eventually downsize into it for a few years so we can sell it without cap gains.

For vacationing, as I get older the more I like the variety and stress free maintenance of the timeshares. I would never be able to afford a beachfront condo in HI. Why go all the way to HI if you have a garden view? I dream of hanging out in Waikiki or Maui in an OV 1 bdrm or studio for a few weeks every year during our retirement.

The biggest downside is not being able to take our pets to the timeshares.

Hope this helps provide some perspective.


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## rickandcindy23 (Aug 7, 2018)

You should check Realtor.com for condos that are priced much lower on Maui.  Narrow it down by using the zip code 96761, Lahaina, because there are some nice condos for sale along Lower Honopiilani Hwy.  I would love to own one near Hono Koa, specifically. 

Some friends of ours bought next door to Hono Koa, and it's a cute little condo with a very modern kitchen, nice lanai, room in the bedroom for a king bed, and the bathroom is new like the kitchen.  I think they paid about $450K.  It's only 500 square feet, but they have a management company that rents it for them when they aren't on the island.  They get enough rent to more than pay for their mortgage and HOA payments.  The unit has no AC because it's oceanfront and stays cool.  I loved it when I saw it in March.  Made me think we needed something like that.  

If I bought something, it would have to be a 2 bedroom.  I really like the idea of 2 bed and 2 bath oceanfront.  That would be nice to own and rent out.

But if you have to have luxury like Westin, sure you gotta pay for it.  

One of the blessings we have in life is staying at our oceanfront Hono Koa three weeks a year.  It's not luxurious, but it's very clean and has a huge lanai that is less than 40 feet from the water.  We practically got the weeks free, and they aren't worth anything to anyone, except to those who own it.  

The same friends that bought the condo in Honokowai have sold their in-town house and moved into a little house in the mountains.  They downsized a lot.  I cannot imagine living in the mountains with deep snow a lot of the year.  So they own two opposite climates.


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## Laurie (Aug 7, 2018)

Advantages and disadvantages to both of course - ability to bring pets being a very major plus for many. If you're concerned about costs of a second home, why not rent it out as a holiday rental, and use it when it's vacant and/or block out the calendar when you want to use it?

Just bringing this up, because it's what we do. I can't complain about investment return, though it is some work if you don't use a management company, which is always an option if you get tired of the work.


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## vacationhopeful (Aug 7, 2018)

Looked at renting the cabin thru one of the newer internet agencies for short-term rentals a couple of months ago. Had an phone interview for more details to begin the sign-up process. Started off with "your social security" number and how good they were in providing you with all the withholding on local, state and federal taxes plus corrodinating a housecleaner (which I hired separately from their services), etc. All with fees involved for anyone who provides ANY service .. but WHAT the actual fee would 'depend'. Interviewer asked about insurance to cover my liability and strongly suggested settling up a limited liability corporation (LLC)  .. to protect my personal home and my other assets.

So let's see ... they run a phone bank and a computer booking engine to collect the money and 1st PAY THEMSELVES. I pay directly to a cleaner they will find via "outer space" or the internet, I would be totally responsible for ALL libilaty on the property for guests & cleaner, cleaner has the keys & will provide all damage assestments BUT I have to get repairs DONE .. unless I chose to USE a contractor the booking agency might_ find_ to do the repairs ... at whatever cost.

I talked for an hour or so to their local cleaner in my area ... she could not praise these (booking) people HIGH ENOUGH. She was a house cleaner .. not a property manager or licensed realtor. LOVED the company .. promised to do a great job ... was looking to HIRE herself an underling to actually DO THE HOUSE CLEANING as she is so busy now. And she knew I was a good 125+ miles away.

So their housecleaner would be MY SILENT partner in the house I own ... a person who always get paid for ANY and ALL tasks they determine need to be done where I run the risk of LOSING vast sums of money due to their actions and charges.

AND the corporate booking agency's answer to everything is, 'that is why you should be a LLC'.

AND the reason I decided to NOT go any further ... I have other things to do in my off hours. The risks position I would be in, my time & energy expended AND costs to maintain the property to their benefit ... as at almost NO RISK to themselves VERSES my ownership, risks & out of control costs.

It is a vacation home .. not a new business 3+ hours away in EACH DIRECTION .. for me to be worried about or to pay SOME selfemployed, LLC housecleaner to expose me to liablities out of my control.

PS Remember, post those "NO TRESPASSING" on your property.


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## MULTIZ321 (Aug 7, 2018)

This is the Best State to Invest in a Vacation Home
By Leia Klingel/ Luxury/ Fox Business/ foxbusiness.com

"Real estate investors looking at vacation destinations for rental investment properties could be best off focusing their search in Florida.

Vacasa, which offers professional rental management for vacation homes, ranked the top 25 U.S. vacation rental markets, ranked according to capitalization rate, which is the rate of return on a real estate investment property based on the income that the property is expected to generate.

Florida dominated the top 25, claiming nine spots, or 36% of the list. All of the Florida locations have a cap rate above 5%. While, overall, beach locations dominated the list, mountain towns were also represented with the likes of Park City, Utah, and Big Bear, California...."

Here's the List:........"


Richard


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## vacationhopeful (Aug 7, 2018)

Richard,
My sister runs the rentals for her husband's family fully owned 2/2 condo on the beach in Ocean City, MD. I was surprised that city is listed so HIGH. I post a Redweek ad yearly for this condo .. to get any unrented time taken. Most summer weeks are rented to 'returning guests' of prior years. And she gets all the sumemr weeks rented every year.

BUT the condo sits empty a good bit of the off-season. They do_ not_ lose money but I am sure, there is no mortgage on the place. And with 3 heirs owning the condo .. each gets to pick a SUMMER week for personal use ONLY. Then returning renters are booked. 

This condo is an oddball place .. directly on the beach, balconies above the dunes looking at the ocean, car parking, elevators, washer/dryers in unit but NO SWIMMING POOL.

With no swimming pool, I suspect the liablity insurance and operating costs are lower that a condo with pool.


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## CalGalTraveler (Aug 7, 2018)

LOL A popular cocktail conversation among our friends who own vacation homes is to gripe about how little their management companies actually do, how much they overcharge (in some cases 35%)  and how they have to deal with their mismanagement of renters (whom they screen no less), who sometimes break things (it happens) and have frat parties. Constantly on Kohls and Ebay purchasing white towels and glasses to replace = cost of doing business.

On the positive side a friend who has a Tahoe home whose couch was deteriorated by renters was able to refurbish the home with new furniture and appliances lest they pay taxes on the profits.

FWIW...I am not sure an LLC is needed unless you manage multiple properties. We were told that if you have a good umbrella liability policy it should cover you. But you should check with your advisors.  Insurance for rentals is about double the price but you can cover this with rental revenue.

Our management company hires and manages the cleaners.  Good cleaners are one of the most important elements of your rental experience as no one wants a dirty rental.


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## Jan M. (Aug 7, 2018)

We've met several couples while staying in Naples and Sanibel who owned 10+ weeks and finally bought an apartment or condo. They come back to their old resort to see their friends quite often and didn't seem quite as happy as they thought they would be in their apartment or condo. One older gentleman was in the resort office chatting and I ended up talking with him and the person at the desk for awhile. When he left the woman at the desk explained that she encouraged him to still stop in because they were getting up there in age and really slowing down. They bought an apartment or condo in the building next door to the resort and she said if she and the other person didn't see him for a second day that they would call to make sure he and his wife were okay They used to own 16 weeks at the resort and had been owners for years. When they stayed at the resort he came in every day except Sundays to check to see if they had gotten any mail. In their new place they knew no one and she doubted that anyone would have noticed their absence and checked on them.

Reading CalGalTraveler's comment about cleaning made me think how great it is at the timeshares to have someone come in to clean every week and with some resorts even a mid week trash and tidy too.

We never wanted to be tied to the financial and upkeep responsibilities of owning a second home. And I definitely would still want to go other places if we did. Timeshares are ideal for us.


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## T-Dot-Traveller (Aug 7, 2018)

For Canadians who have both :

cottages ( ie 2nd homes) are likely for summer usage  and may be shared with family if inherited , and probably are on or near a lake .

Timeshares are for getting away from winter .

{ I am sure this is the same for residents of more northern US states }

The pros and cons :  that other have listed are identical,


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## WinniWoman (Aug 7, 2018)

My brother had first purchased a condo in Fla as a second home and then sold it after 10 years (and he didn't really use it that much and lost some money on the sale) and bought a house there just recently. He went down for one week 2 months ago and was already upset with the work that needs to be done- and this home is in awesome shape!He does plan on spending the winter months there.

Also, when he had the condo he learned the hard way that renting it when they were not using it was not the way to go, even though he used the mgmt company there. Plus, renters wanted the prime weeks that he wanted to use himself.

I consider my lowly 3 weeks of fixed unit timeshare ownerships our second homes. We can't afford a second home and I would not want to deal with another house anyway. We would never relax if we had another home. We'd always be working on it. Not that we could spend much time in a second home anyway because we still work. Once we stop working we really would never be able to afford a second home with so much less income.

We just hope to sell our home someday and move to where we really want to live. And in a condo or townhouse- and in a community setting like a 55+ or something similar. But I don't like what I am learning about some of the high HOA fees.

I learned a lot from renting vacation cottages and condos. They are nice, but kind of lonely. Almost like when I am home (I live in a rural area). Great right now that I am working, but too lonely when I will be retired.

I like the resort type feel- where there are things going on and people all around and a front desk and lobby, etc.

We would still keep the timeshares until we felt we could not use them anymore and then try to give them away. In fact, have even been thinking about getting rid of one of them, but it's all we've got to look forward to right now.


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## WinniWoman (Aug 7, 2018)

PS There are people who have full ownerships at our Vermont timeshare, but I personally would not want to own full time real estate tied in with a timeshare resort. Plus- it is extremely expensive in terms of taxes and HOA fees and so on and you are subject to all kinds of rules and regulations that control how you use your own home, including renting it out.


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## jackio (Aug 7, 2018)

We have discussed buying a 2nd home (condo) in SC or FL for the purpose of snow-birding when I retire in 3 years.  We decided to try going south for 8 to 10 weeks in timeshares the first few years to see how we like it.  I have a feeling I will like it much more than owning a 2nd home.


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## Marathoner (Aug 7, 2018)

I have a real passion for skiing, as does my family.  Due to the economics of a second home on the ski slopes, it just does not make sense to buy one since we would only use it during the winter months.  Moreover, the routine maintenance of a home on the ski slopes is considerable due to the need for regular snow removal, repairs required from the frigid winter weather, and wear and tear from equipment/boots that people would bang around.  Ski-in/out timeshares are the perfect answer to address this need.  You only buy the weeks that you intend to use while cost of the year-round maintenance and upkeep would be mutualized with the other owners.  It just makes so much sense that I don't understand why there are not more passionate skiing timeshare owners in TUG.

Also, as we know, mountains are not getting any bigger.  The finite number of ski-in/out properties at premier ski resorts also lends itself well to rentals to cover maintenance fees or more, if required.  Similar to Hawaii, a nice ski-in/out property at a nice resort also costs millions.  The economics of a year-round home on the slopes doesn't make sense and yet many people still buy them as a trophy purchase.  

Owning a timeshare has worked out well for me when compared to the economics of renting ski-in/out hotel rooms at peak holiday periods.  I've now purchased enough ski timeshare weeks so that I can live in my timeshare slope-side lodging all winter long when I retire in 15 years.  In the meantime, I rent out the ski weeks that I don't use and I have guaranteed ski holiday week vacations for the family every year when I want it.


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## CO skier (Aug 7, 2018)

Marathoner said:


> I have a real passion for skiing, as does my family.  Due to the economics of a second home on the ski slopes, it just does not make sense to buy one since we would only use it during the winter months.  ...  It just makes so much sense that I don't understand why there are not more passionate skiing timeshare owners in TUG.


Shhhh ... more skiing timeshare owners will just lead to more competition for the best ski vacations.

Let them have their summers at the beach and flock to Florida in the winter.


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## Marathoner (Aug 7, 2018)

CO skier said:


> Shhhh ... more skiing timeshare owners will just lead to more competition for the best ski vacations.
> Let them have their summers at the beach and flock to Florida in the winter.



I hear you.  But I've learnt so much from having read every single ski timeshare post in the TUG archive and so I just feel I need to give back by spreading the knowledge as well.  It was especially PerryM's posts that enabled me to realize what a great benefit timeshare ownership was for the skiing family.


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## easyrider (Aug 8, 2018)

We have about 7 to 8 weeks of timeshare every year and a vacation home about an hour away from home. It does seem like alot of work having the vacation home but since it is more of a family destination, the kids, grand kids, friends and relatives are doing most of the work. It is getting used all year. Its a three bedroom with loft. We have four sleeper sofas, five beds and a couple of futons. The place easily sleeps 20 on beds inside. I like the area alot. The big plus is Rex can go. Rex thinks the river is his water bowl. 

I need the timeshares for winter and far away destinations. I wouldn't want to own something I couldn't drive to in a short time. The timeshares work great for Hawaii and Mexico. So yup, timeshares do work great for us as a second home, imo. 

Bill


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## CO skier (Aug 8, 2018)

Marathoner said:


> I hear you.  But I've learnt so much from having read every single ski timeshare post in the TUG archive and so I just feel I need to give back by spreading the knowledge as well.  It was especially PerryM's posts that enabled me to realize what a great benefit timeshare ownership was for the skiing family.


Oh, man, now you are really spilling the beans.  Marriott may not be the same as then, but still ...

I learned A LOT from his posts.


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## am1 (Aug 8, 2018)

T-Dot-Traveller said:


> For Canadians who have both :
> 
> cottages ( ie 2nd homes) are likely for summer usage  and may be shared with family if inherited , and probably are on or near a lake .
> 
> ...



Some have cottages and a place to vacation in Florida in addition to their house.


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## WinniWoman (Aug 8, 2018)

Marathoner said:


> I have a real passion for skiing, as does my family.  Due to the economics of a second home on the ski slopes, it just does not make sense to buy one since we would only use it during the winter months.  Moreover, the routine maintenance of a home on the ski slopes is considerable due to the need for regular snow removal, repairs required from the frigid winter weather, and wear and tear from equipment/boots that people would bang around.  Ski-in/out timeshares are the perfect answer to address this need.  You only buy the weeks that you intend to use while cost of the year-round maintenance and upkeep would be mutualized with the other owners.  It just makes so much sense that I don't understand why there are not more passionate skiing timeshare owners in TUG.
> 
> Also, as we know, mountains are not getting any bigger.  The finite number of ski-in/out properties at premier ski resorts also lends itself well to rentals to cover maintenance fees or more, if required.  Similar to Hawaii, a nice ski-in/out property at a nice resort also costs millions.  The economics of a year-round home on the slopes doesn't make sense and yet many people still buy them as a trophy purchase.
> 
> Owning a timeshare has worked out well for me when compared to the economics of renting ski-in/out hotel rooms at peak holiday periods.  I've now purchased enough ski timeshare weeks so that I can live in my timeshare slope-side lodging all winter long when I retire in 15 years.  In the meantime, I rent out the ski weeks that I don't use and I have guaranteed ski holiday week vacations for the family every year when I want it.




Hopefully these will sell well or your kids (if you have them) will take over when the time comes that you can no longer ski. Or- I suppose you can still hang out with the hot toddies!


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## bluehende (Aug 8, 2018)

We owned both.  I sold the beach house first.  After two winters with break ins and one storm that blew off part of the roof it became too much.  I found I was going down to check on the house and work as much as we were relaxing at the beach.  It was great when the kids were young, but it was time to let it go.  Now I rent a timeshare at the beach and enjoy.


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## slip (Aug 8, 2018)

I just purchased a second home In Hawai’i on Moloka’i. It’s a one bedroom condo that we plan to retire to in five to seven years.

I have my timeshares and they have been a second home for me for eight years now. I do rentals on my extra weeks and I may downsize on my ownerships some in the coming years but I will definitely keep some and use them in retirement to visit the other islands.

The timeshares work great for a second home. No cleaning or maintenance, what’s not to like.

I will sell my home here in Wisconsin when I retire and we will move making the condo our home.

That’s the plan for now but who knows things change.


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## rhonda (Aug 8, 2018)

Adding a bit more on our story (see post #2 for the basics):  Perhaps we went in reverse on our choices?  We started with the condo near the beach as our primary ... but were itching to have a place that didn't have an HOA, had some land and was "less connected" in every respect.  The 2nd home met my requirements: no HOA, some land and limited service requirements (private well, septic).  Yes, it has power and telephone services (first a landline ... now cellular) but we are gradually reducing our grid-tie dependance.  I love having the horses home with me as my life shifted towards the 2nd home as "my" primary.

Can I see us, someday, selling the primary and using the 'weekend' house as our retirement home?  Maybe ... the weekend home is certainly a pattern of what I want but I'm hoping to trade it upwards for _more land_ and even more remote location.


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## silentg (Aug 8, 2018)

Our primary home is just perfect for us. It’s like our own private resort. We have a pool, private back yard and plenty of room for visitors. All on one level. Also our kids live  nearby and in the same state.
We have 5 timeshares. We use and trade them all. We are happy with our house and timeshares. 
Silentg


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## CalGalTraveler (Aug 8, 2018)

rhonda said:


> Adding a bit more on our story (see post #2 for the basics):  Perhaps we went in reverse on our choices?  We started with the condo near the beach as our primary ... but were itching to have a place that didn't have an HOA, had some land and was "less connected" in every respect.  The 2nd home met my requirements: no HOA, some land and limited service requirements (private well, septic).  Yes, it has power and telephone services (first a landline ... now cellular) but we are gradually reducing our grid-tie dependance.  I love having the horses home with me as my life shifted towards the 2nd home as "my" primary.
> 
> Can I see us, someday, selling the primary and using the 'weekend' house as our retirement home?  Maybe ... the weekend home is certainly a pattern of what I want but I'm hoping to trade it upwards for _more land_ and even more remote location.





slip said:


> I just purchased a second home I Hawai’i on Moloka’i. It’s a one bedroom condo that we plan to retire to in five to seven years.
> 
> I have my timeshares and they have been a second home for me for eight years now. I do rentals on my extra weeks and I may downsize on my ownerships some in the coming years but I will definitely keep some and use them in retirement to visit the other islands.
> 
> ...



There appears to be a trend with vacation homes to transition them from places to vacation to retirement homes. We are in a similar boat. We have had a vacation home in the mountains and may ultimately trade it to downsize into a retirement home (in our case via a 1031 rental exchange to our ultimate home in a sunny locale).  May take some steps to get there but will work if the tax law doesn't change.

Exchanging via a 1031 enables us to not have to move into our mountain home to take advantage of the capital gains exclusion on primary home when we sell.  We can transfer equity/cap gains tax free to the next (exchanged) home and will rent for a few years (possibly to our kids) before we move in for the required time before we sell as a primary home and then will buy our ultimate retirement home.

Timeshares will remain as our fun vacation get-aways as we age.


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## Jan M. (Aug 8, 2018)

Marathoner said:


> I have a real passion for skiing, as does my family.  Due to the economics of a second home on the ski slopes, it just does not make sense to buy one since we would only use it during the winter months.  Moreover, the routine maintenance of a home on the ski slopes is considerable due to the need for regular snow removal, repairs required from the frigid winter weather, and wear and tear from equipment/boots that people would bang around.  Ski-in/out timeshares are the perfect answer to address this need.  You only buy the weeks that you intend to use while cost of the year-round maintenance and upkeep would be mutualized with the other owners.  It just makes so much sense that I don't understand why there are not more passionate skiing timeshare owners in TUG.
> 
> Also, as we know, mountains are not getting any bigger.  The finite number of ski-in/out properties at premier ski resorts also lends itself well to rentals to cover maintenance fees or more, if required.  Similar to Hawaii, a nice ski-in/out property at a nice resort also costs millions.  The economics of a year-round home on the slopes doesn't make sense and yet many people still buy them as a trophy purchase.
> 
> Owning a timeshare has worked out well for me when compared to the economics of renting ski-in/out hotel rooms at peak holiday periods.  I've now purchased enough ski timeshare weeks so that I can live in my timeshare slope-side lodging all winter long when I retire in 15 years.  In the meantime, I rent out the ski weeks that I don't use and I have guaranteed ski holiday week vacations for the family every year when I want it.



A few years ago I talked to someone who owned several months of consecutive weeks at a ski resort within a couple of hours of where they live. They get the same unit for the whole time so they are able to leave their ski equipment, clothes and foodstuffs in their unit when they go home as they don't always stay the whole week, just long weekends sometimes. She told me how much they love being able to go without having to pack their stuff. They just head out after work and never worry they've forgotten something. And they love not having to take the time to clean and close up the place when they leave. They have a four bedroom/4 bath unit so it takes a fair amount of time to clean a unit that size. What they spent to acquire that many weeks and their maintenance fees may seem like a lot of money but you couldn't rent or own a place for what it costs them. And the best part is they have none of the responsibilities or headaches. I'm not sure if all ski areas are like the one near them but she said they only wanted the several months they like best of ski season and owners who rent nicer places often want to rent for the entire ski season.


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## Elan (Aug 8, 2018)

What about the liquidating of each if/when you're done with them?  That would be #1 on my list of considerations.


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## rhonda (Aug 8, 2018)

Elan said:


> What about the liquidating of each if/when you're done with them?  That would be #1 on my list of considerations.


I'm down to 3 timeshare holdings (from 5).  I'm reasonably certain I'll be able to sell 2 and give away the other.  The weekend home might take longer to move but it _can_ and _will_ sell.


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## am1 (Aug 8, 2018)

Our second home is a beach lot with a hut. Concrete floor a few months ago.  No running water, other then well with solar pump when connected and no electricity.  Eventually will build a small house then after that our house there.  Have other land a few lots down that we will develop and rent/sell or sell the land.  It's all work.  Over Easter weekend had 50 people visit/stay over.


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## rhonda (Aug 8, 2018)

50 for Easter!  Yeah!


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## WinniWoman (Aug 8, 2018)

Jan M. said:


> A few years ago I talked to someone who owned several months of consecutive weeks at a ski resort within a couple of hours of where they live. They get the same unit for the whole time so they are able to leave their ski equipment, clothes and foodstuffs in their unit when they go home as they don't always stay the whole week, just long weekends sometimes. She told me how much they love being able to go without having to pack their stuff. They just head out after work and never worry they've forgotten something. And they love not having to take the time to clean and close up the place when they leave. They have a four bedroom/4 bath unit so it takes a fair amount of time to clean a unit that size. What they spent to acquire that many weeks and their maintenance fees may seem like a lot of money but you couldn't rent or own a place for what it costs them. And the best part is they have none of the responsibilities or headaches. I'm not sure if all ski areas are like the one near them but she said they only wanted the several months they like best of ski season and owners who rent nicer places often want to rent for the entire ski season.




Yes. A lot of owners at Smuggs like this.


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## mjm1 (Aug 9, 2018)

Greg, we are like you and others here who enjoy the flexibility and variety of places we can go. We have never done a detailed analysis to compare a second home to timeshares, but intuitively feel this is the better option for us.

Best regards.

Mike


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## ciscogizmo1 (Aug 9, 2018)

One con for a timeshare for me is the kitchen supplies. Probably won’t affect everyone but i need more supplies than provided.  We do eat out when timesharing but we do eat in.  I’m a little tried of lugging my spices.  Some people on Tug use to tease me for taking pictures of the kitchen supplies in my reviews but I do that so I know what to bring.  I like to bring my crockpot or instant pot.  I usually need a bigger skillet than they provide, etc..    I’m one of the rare people who loves to cook.  


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## rickandcindy23 (Aug 9, 2018)

ciscogizmo1 said:


> One con for a timeshare for me is the kitchen supplies. Probably won’t affect everyone but i need more supplies than provided.  We do eat out when timesharing but we do eat in.  I’m a little tried of lugging my spices.  Some people on Tug use to tease me for taking pictures of the kitchen supplies in my reviews but I do that so I know what to bring.  I like to bring my crockpot or instant pot.  I usually need a bigger skillet than they provide, etc..    I’m one of the rare people who loves to cook.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



I was very pleased to see a crock pot on the counter of our Hono Koa timeshare on Maui.  That was a welcome addition, and then we stayed at Kahana Beach, and there it was, a crock pot like the one at Hono Koa.  So happy with that addition by Soleil Management.  

Non-stick pans are becoming a rarity in timeshares, even the big names, like Hyatt.  The pans stick, and if you cook a lot of breakfasts, it's annoying to have eggs stick to the pan, no matter how much butter you add.  So we bring our electric griddle for breakfast, eggs and bacon, and even pancakes some days.  That has saved us some frustration, bringing that thing.  We also bring spices in small containers I bought from Amazon.  We bring a Pampered Chef pineapple corer to Hawaii for those delicious pineapples at Costco for $2.99 each.  That was a must! 

My younger sister and her husband are going with us next week.  She is going to make fun of all of my stuff I bring, since she is a person who lives minimally.  Oh well!  She has known me all her life.


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## dayooper (Aug 9, 2018)

ciscogizmo1 said:


> One con for a timeshare for me is the kitchen supplies. Probably won’t affect everyone but i need more supplies than provided.  We do eat out when timesharing but we do eat in.  I’m a little tried of lugging my spices.  Some people on Tug use to tease me for taking pictures of the kitchen supplies in my reviews but I do that so I know what to bring.  I like to bring my crockpot or instant pot.  I usually need a bigger skillet than they provide, etc..    I’m one of the rare people who loves to cook.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



I like to cook as well. When we stayed at HGVC LV on the Strip in April, it was a great place to stay with one exception: no spatula! We made eggs in the morning and I had to use a mixing spoon to flip the eggs. In hindsight, I should have called the front desk and I’m sure they would have brought one up. The pictures on the HGVC Tug sticky shows that one unit had one so it probably got “lost” along the way.


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## geist1223 (Aug 9, 2018)

ciscogizmo1 said:


> One con for a timeshare for me is the kitchen supplies. Probably won’t affect everyone but i need more supplies than provided.  We do eat out when timesharing but we do eat in.  I’m a little tried of lugging my spices.  Some people on Tug use to tease me for taking pictures of the kitchen supplies in my reviews but I do that so I know what to bring.  I like to bring my crockpot or instant pot.  I usually need a bigger skillet than they provide, etc..    I’m one of the rare people who loves to cook.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



Patti also loves to cook and she is a fantastic cook. So we eat breakfasts and dinners in quite often. For drive to locations she has two plastic tubs always packed and ready to go. Even before unpacking her clothes she will completely arrange the kitchen cupboards to suit her. Even simple things like putting the coffee cups in the cupboard above the coffee pot and not across the kitchen. As she is doing this she unpacks her two plastic tubs.


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## rickandcindy23 (Aug 9, 2018)

silentg said:


> Our primary home is just perfect for us. It’s like our own private resort. We have a pool, private back yard and plenty of room for visitors. All on one level. Also our kids live  nearby and in the same state.
> We have 5 timeshares. We use and trade them all. We are happy with our house and timeshares.
> Silentg


Our nephew lives in Austin, near the lake, and he has a very nice house with all of the amenities you have, and he has a very nice boat and plays in that lake every day of the year.  When he went to Maui for 10 days, he was bored with it.  He missed his boat and the lake and his neighbors.  He said Maui was pretty, but he likes his tropical paradise better.  Some people cannot be impressed.  If the Westin and Marriott didn't impress him, nothing will.


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## rhonda (Aug 9, 2018)

ciscogizmo1 said:


> One con for a timeshare for me is the kitchen supplies. Probably won’t affect everyone but i need more supplies than provided.  We do eat out when timesharing but we do eat in.  I’m a little tried of lugging my spices.  Some people on Tug use to tease me for taking pictures of the kitchen supplies in my reviews but I do that so I know what to bring.  I like to bring my crockpot or instant pot.  I usually need a bigger skillet than they provide, etc..    I’m one of the rare people who loves to cook.


I lug a _huge_ section of my kitchen to drive-to destinations.  It just about killed me this past July when returning to Pagosa Springs that I was flying into ABQ to meet a friend and drive from there.  Ugh, flying!  I can't bring my juicer?  My Vitamix?  My organic veggies?  My spices (beyond the normal Worldmark spices, provided)?   My favorite knives?

I'm returning next month but alone.  I'm not entirely keen on driving 14 hours by myself (will likely break it up with an overnight in Flagstaff).  Flying into Durango isn't a terribly bad price ... but I really want my kitchen stuff.  Oh, my ... dilemma!


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## dagger1 (Aug 9, 2018)

rickandcindy23 said:


> Our nephew lives in Austin, near the lake, and he has a very nice house with all of the amenities you have, and he has a very nice boat and plays in that lake every day of the year.  When he went to Maui for 10 days, he was bored with it.  He missed his boat and the lake and his neighbors.  He said Maui was pretty, but he likes his tropical paradise better.  Some people cannot be impressed.  If the Westin and Marriott didn't impress him, nothing will.


Lake Travis is phenomenal!


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## jeffcarp (Aug 11, 2018)

Here's a slight twist on the scenarios raised here that we are doing. We've accumulated four timeshares in markets through the wholesale market. All of them are located in places that we enjoy traveling. None of them were purchased primarily for trade value. 

Then, we also purchased a small motorhome. We use this for travel to the timeshares but then it also gives you the flexibility to add on additional trips before and after the timeshare weeks. Finally, we fill in with rental units through RCI when there are good values.

The combination of those three things easily gives us the ability to travel 8 to 12 weeks at a cost that is significantly less than a second home and traditional travel expenses like airfare and rental cars.


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## JerseyJim434 (Aug 11, 2018)

I had planned a second home in FLA when in my 50’s. We bought lots in 2 places to have that option. I also “hedged” and aquired 8 consecutive weeks ober the years in the TS that we love , (Oyster Pointe) and have many friends there too. As the time drew nearer things changed. We decided to buy more units for points too. We do not want to spend more than the 8 to 10 weeks in FL and also like the flexibility of TS. AND then this hit me...what would I do in a home when all the amenites I want are at my timeshare...DUH. We sold 1property and another lot is on the market. Use use the points to trade for other resorts in the fall and to give to the “kids”.

Hooked on Timeshare


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## GregGH (Aug 11, 2018)

Hi

Been at Four Seasons Aviara for a number for years now staying 10 weeks to push back Winter.  The ability to stay in the same unit ( why do not all time share's allow this ? ) and being pet friendly makes it our home away from home.  Of course my love of the 'perfect spring day' every day in Carlsbad also helps ... forget the hot climates for me. And were we live is so flat .. love the hills in So Cal.

We have new friends from all over USA who are doing the same as us at Aviara.  Hard to justify the issues for 2nd home ownership at this point ... but we do review our needs and wants every couple of years to see the future plans.

Fun to read these comments ... great pints on all sides

Greg H


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## silentg (Aug 11, 2018)

dagger1 said:


> Lake Travis is phenomenal!


It really is we stayed there last year!


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## Hankmoon (Aug 11, 2018)

We have a second home about 3 hours from the primary home. We live in Silicon Valley. For me, the advantages of our second home Include being able to bring our pets and the ability to own a dream home in a high end golf community about an hour from ski resorts in North Tahoe - at about 1/4 the cost per square foot of a Silicon Valley home. We bought the home about 3-4 years ago and it has already appreciated by $400K. It is a gorgeous and huge custom home with high end finishes, a pool/spa, 25 foot windows in the living room and family room, on 1.5 acres with a 10 acre preserve behind us. We can’t see any neighbors because of the space between homes and the preserve behind us. It feels like a resort with all the amenities and the views.

We paid a million under construction costs because outside the major cities in California, housing is still recovering. Even now, the home is still undervalued. There are many great deals on homes in California in high potential areas for appreciation long term. I expect our second home with be worth 2-3 times what we paid when the housing market is fully recovered.

Many people mentioned cons such as home maintenance. For us, we hire people to clean, maintain the landscaping, pest control, etc. We pay a nominal HOA fee to maintain the community, which is breathtakingly beautiful. We can see the snow on the mountains in Tahoe and the downtown Sacramento skyline on clear days.

Another advantage to our second home is we can decide on Friday morning I’d we want to drive up for the weekend.

Since our second home is about 10 years old and very well made, we have not spent any money on home repairs yet. We did spend $5000 when we bought the house to automate the pool so we could turn the spa on to get it hot before we arrive as well as a new pump to make the pool more energy efficient.

The only con to me of owning a second home is the cost. We do not rent out our second home so we do not get rental income. Our HOA has a rule that we can only rent for a minimum of 3 months at a time. However, I would not want to rent this house anyway. I do not want renters destroying it.

I see timeshares as a substitute for hotel vacations at a lower cost with more space. I do not see timeshares as a substitute for a second home. They are two different creatures with different goals.

Like others, we would love to retire in our second home once my DH can. I can work from anywhere but he can’t. So we are married to the Silicon Valley for now.

We are considering buying a “third home” directly in Squaw Valley or Northstar so we can bring our dogs when we stay overnight. There is no place to stay that allows pets. For example, at Squaw, only owners can bring a pet, renters can’t. So even though there are plenty of timeshares around Lake Tahoe, we would not stay in any without our pets. If we move forward with this, we would purchase a ski condo that would break even with the rental income. The association fees are very high and the rental company takes 50% of the revenue so the goals here would be to bring the dogs and to break even and hope for longer term appreciation. The costs of homes and condos in Lake Tahoe are below the Great Recession costs. It has still not fully recovered. There is a lot of inventory for 20-30% below peak prices.


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## silentg (Aug 11, 2018)

We do the same as some of you. Bring our own coffee and filters if a drive to destination. Fill the cooler with condiments, meats and other favorites. Make use of the grills on site. Eat Breakfast in the timeshare most days.
One resort we stayed at in Berkshires was across the street from Stop and Shop. So convent to buy rotisserie chicken, and they had a special on Lobster while we were there. They even steamed them for us. We had to buy the nutcracrackers, as there were none in the unit. We left one there so the next family that stays can use it.
Silentg


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## moonstone (Aug 11, 2018)

geist1223 said:


> Patti also loves to cook and she is a fantastic cook. So we eat breakfasts and dinners in quite often. For drive to locations she has two plastic tubs always packed and ready to go. Even before unpacking her clothes she will completely arrange the kitchen cupboards to suit her. Even simple things like putting the coffee cups in the cupboard above the coffee pot and not across the kitchen. As she is doing this she unpacks her two plastic tubs.



I am glad I'm not the only one who rearranges the kitchen when I get into a timeshare! Who puts plates & glasses clear across the kitchen from the dishwasher & stove? I am vertically challenged so keeping everyday items on the 2nd and 3rd shelf doesn't work for me. It drives me nuts to see one single item, like a measuring cup, occupying a whole shelf  in a cupboard. Many timeshare kitchens don't even have space to store groceries for the week unless you rearrange the cupboards. I take photos with all the cupboard doors open and try to put things back where they were when I pack up. We are not coffee drinkers so the coffee maker gets stored under the sink or on top of the fridge. If the resort supplies dinky cups and saucers or tiny glasses they get put up on a high shelf since they wont be used. Our 'timeshare box' has 2 nice sized mugs in it in case the resort doesn't have any. 


Many years ago we tried (with exchanges and Extra Vacations) to use timeshare weeks to spend part of the winter in Florida but it was just too much of a hassle to arrange and then our weeks were used up when we wanted a vacation during the rest of the year.  We ended up buying a condo in St. Augustine Florida to rent out, then eventually use, for  our retirement. After DH retired, and we spent a week in the Caribbean, he realized he wanted to be in really warm temps for the winter. St. Augustine just doesn't have that, so we still rent out our condo and now rent an apartment in Belize. We don't have the upkeep or year round bills to pay just to be able to use it for 3 mos each winter. The rent we pay there is about 1/3 of what we'd have to pay for a 1 bedroom (utilities incl.) in south Florida. We also still have our timeshare weeks to use for the rest of the year for shorter trips. It works for us! 


~Diane


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## overthehill (Aug 11, 2018)

GregT said:


> All,
> 
> The future of Timesharing thread that is going separately is thought provoking, and caused me to think about my timeshares as a surrogate for a second home.   I've heard people who use their second home frequently and love it, and those who love it at first, but tire of maintenance and cleaning requirements.
> 
> ...



Good question, Greg. We looked at buying a second home years ago but decided we would rather rent a place and have the choice to go different places rather than being tied to one location. More importantly, we would not have had to make a principal investment (which we really couldn't afford back then) plus the ongoing costs of owning a second home, i.e. real estate taxes, insurance, maintenance costs, utilities, etc. and the issue of property security. Having owned t/s unit since 1985, we have enjoyed traveling to many locations with our family and friends and had the flexibility to travel not only around the US but also travel to other countries knowing in advance what our lodging costs would be in advance. Timeshare ownership has worked well for us, especially since retirement in 1997, all t/s ownership having been acquired on the secondary market.


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## geist1223 (Aug 11, 2018)

moonstone said:


> Our 'timeshare box' has 2 nice sized mugs in it in case the resort doesn't have any that works for us!
> ~Diane



We are both coffee drinkers. Most of the cups or mugs (ha) provided by the timeshares are always so small. On Kauai we bought some real mugs at a thrift store for a 50 cents each and then just left them behind. That called and asked them if we wanted then mailed to us. We said no. Patti says she is adding real mugs to the plastic totes for drive to locations.


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## ekeeler (Aug 11, 2018)

Going back to the first page, listing the pros and cons:
We have our timeshares (we don't own the beach house) in points for the most part.  It gives us the flexibility to use points for air fare, car rental, and even cruising.  In addition we can do any number of nights, any size unit, and any view, including ocean view.  We love to cruise, and also use the timeshares for a one or two night stay prior to the cruise (we have since we missed a ship several years ago).  We're spoiled, and a one bedroom timeshare is much better than a hotel room.  If we cruise, we can also add a week or two prior to or after a cruise.  Because we are half way across the country from the cruise ports and beaches, staying for just a week doesn't make sense.  For us, the biggest con is the flexibility.  And we also enjoy traveling to different places all over the country.  We will also be getting together with friends and family in Palm Beach shortly, and having the ability to book a three bedroom and a two bedroom for five couples is a wonderful benefit.  For us, timeshares are our preference.  
We have enjoyed reading everyone's feedback.


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## WinniWoman (Aug 11, 2018)

geist1223 said:


> We are both coffee drinkers. Most of the cups or mugs (ha) provided by the timeshares are always so small. On Kauai we bought some real mugs at a thrift store for a 50 cents each and then just left them behind. That called and asked them if we wanted then mailed to us. We said no. Patti says she is adding real mugs to the plastic totes for drive to locations.



That is what I do. I have a nice big mugs in the timeshare box.


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## GregT (Aug 11, 2018)

All,

This has been great for me to read, and I appreciate all the thoughts -- TUGgers rock and I am always intrigued by the grains of wisdom that our humble community provides.   There is much to like in second homes and I can see the benefits that owners articulate.  I'm intrigued there are others who view, as I do, that timeshares are a reasonable alternative to a second home.   We will see what the future holds.  Thanks again for the comments!

Best,

Greg


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## avad88 (Aug 12, 2018)

We always knew we wanted to winter in Fl when Hubby retired. We tried timesharing there for 6 weeks the first winter. We own 3 weeks of east coast beach high trader lock offs on the weeks side of RCI and have points on the points side. We only needed a 1 bedroom, so I thought it would be easy. NOT!! It was very difficult and time consuming to get 6 consecutive weeks even with extra weeks thrown in, but we did it. We normally like staying at different resorts but we got very tired of packing, unpacking and moving 6 times. The next year we rented a fL beach condo for a month and timeshared around the state for 4 weeks. It was still tiring and renting was super expensive there in the winter. So, 2 years ago we got a good deal on a small house in a FL golf retirement village and spend 5 months there. We have great friends there and over half the people in our community are snowbirds like us. We use our timeshares for trades other times of the year or even for a nice south beach week there in FL. We should be able to sell our vacation home for a profit when we grow tired of it, but it is working for us now.


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## shorts (Aug 13, 2018)

We use our 9 weeks of timeshare in Grand Cayman sort of as a second home. We had planned it pre- retirement and built up our weeks in the same building/unit type. Until we both retired, we rented out the weeks we couldn’t use ourselves. Now we go in the winter and stay for 8-9 weeks in the same oceanfront unit without having to move. No maintenance, housekeeping provided, activities, restaurants, etc. all the pluses of a resort without the headache of home ownership.


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## silentg (Aug 13, 2018)

This is our newest addition poolside.
There is no place like home.
Silentg


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## bcancelliere (Aug 14, 2018)

Yes, it makes sense if you can own a string of weeks in the same unit, in the part of the season. We have enjoyed 4 weeks in the GA mountains, during the month of August, in a free standing mountain cabin. We're in Sky Valley, 2 hours north of Atlanta, where the temperatures run about 10 degrees cooler with lower humidity. Its a great area for golf, tennis, fishing and hiking with very good selection restaurants. Now we are selling, a new pet and increased volunteer activity, has reduced our available time.


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## rapmarks (Aug 14, 2018)

avad88 said:


> We always knew we wanted to winter in Fl when Hubby retired. We tried timesharing there for 6 weeks the first winter. We own 3 weeks of east coast beach high trader lock offs on the weeks side of RCI and have points on the points side. We only needed a 1 bedroom, so I thought it would be easy. NOT!! It was very difficult and time consuming to get 6 consecutive weeks even with extra weeks thrown in, but we did it. We normally like staying at different resorts but we got very tired of packing, unpacking and moving 6 times. The next year we rented a fL beach condo for a month and timeshared around the state for 4 weeks. It was still tiring and renting was super expensive there in the winter. So, 2 years ago we got a good deal on a small house in a FL golf retirement village and spend 5 months there. We have great friends there and over half the people in our community are snowbirds like us. We use our timeshares for trades other times of the year or even for a nice south beach week there in FL. We should be able to sell our vacation home for a profit when we grow tired of it, but it is working for us now.


This is what we did too, except I guess Florida is our home as we spend eight months there and four in what was our vacation home in a golf resort community


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## Ralph Sir Edward (Aug 19, 2018)

Timesharing as a surrogate vacation home has a few requirements, for maximal enjoyment. The first is lifestyle.

Are you a driving person? Are you planning to stay within a moderate day's drive of where you live permanently? If you do, a second home may be more your style, especially if you plan to be a "weekend warrior".

Same for taking pets along. If you take pets along, a second home may be a better fit.

If you goal is real estate investment, a second home is clearly the way to go. You'll never make much money, and usually lose money, with a timeshare.

On the other hand. . . .

If you want to spend a block of time where flying is _de rigueur_, and you aren't trying to "make a buck", or have a pet you want to take along, timeshares can be a nice surrogate vacation home.

Aftermarket can be very cheap to acquire, and the MF's can stack up very nicely compared to taxes, insurance, and utilities. Of course, you have to review all your options to decide what best fits your personal requirements.

For example, I want to spend a month in Hawaii in the winter. I spent many, many, weekends of my formative years, going to Padre Island on the Texas Gulf coast, because it was 3 three hour's drive from where I lived, and I had relatives there. Therefore, beaches and ocean views don't mean much to me, but warm weather _does_. (Others may have the same view about skiing.)

I mention this, because I can be very happy with a garden view, because warm is what I go for, not water. The amount I saved by buying aftermarket timeshares over a 2 bedroom condo in the area (also garden view) would pay around 75 years of MFs. But then again, I'll never be able to sell those timeshares for a 6 figure profit either. Shrug.

But to use a timeshare as a second home require advanced planning before you buy timeshare one. You must check if you can reserve a block of timeshare weeks with the same room. If you can't, weekly moving will eat you alive. No fun at all.

Now assuming you have found timeshare resort that lets you block book a room, and otherwise meets your requirements, start with the details. Yes, they cost money, but they can make the difference between a happy period, and an unhappy period. The most important is a self storage unit.

Why a self storage unit? If you like to cook, for example, you can store your pot's and pans, crock pots, mixers, ect. in the storage room. You can leave a block of clothes in the storage room. I have two Sunsail Cabanas I store there, as well. Others might want to store a boogie board or surf board. The goal is not to have to carry things back and forth on an airplane. You show up, get the rental car and head to the selfstorage and load up. Head to the timeshare, check in, and unload. Now you are ready for your "vacation home". You do just the opposite the day before you leave.

For perishables (like spices), use the mail, if you can. (Check with the timeshare to see if they will hold a package for a week or two.) A small box will handle a lot of spices. Mail them back when you leave.

Now, if you have worked this right, you fly in, (no baggage check/pickup), rent a car, get your stuff from your storage unit, check in, get your mailed package(s), and go to your room. You're set for a month (4 weeks, to be precise) rest, relaxation, and entertainment at your second home.

_Bon Appetit!_


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## GregT (Aug 19, 2018)

Ralph Sir Edward said:


> Now, if you have worked this right, you fly in, (no baggage check/pickup), rent a car, get your stuff from your storage unit, check in, get your mailed package(s), and go to your room. You're set for a month (4 weeks, to be precise) rest, relaxation, and entertainment at your second home.



That's really interesting -- I've explored a storage unit for boogie boards, beach chairs, fold up table, floats, etc, but I'd never considered leaving clothes.   How do they hold up in storage, do you vacuum seal or anything?    Does anyone else have a storage unit and what do you leave in your storage unit?  Thanks again for the thoughts!

Best,

Greg


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## rapmarks (Aug 19, 2018)

What does a storage unit cost in Hawaii?   I made the mistake of getting a storage unit when I moved, wasted four thousand dollars.


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## Jenocrat (Aug 19, 2018)

I was amazed when in Palm Springs last year how many individuals I spoke to use their timeshares as a second home in the winter. It is really quite brilliant in the scheme of things (for those of us that purchased our timeshares early in life). I am now considering it as an option when I decide to retire. Now with the tax code as it is, I'm not entirely sure how I would benefit tax wise with a second home.


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## TravelTime (Aug 19, 2018)

With MFs averaging $1000-$2600 per week (some more some less, depending on unit brand, unit size,  location, etc), how can timesharing compare to owning a second home? Mortgage, taxes, utilities and insurance do not exceed this amount per month even on a luxury home, which we own as a second home (assuming you put down a decent down payment). Plus you have appreciation potential with a home. Timesharing to me is wonderful for flexibility and visiting many different places. I do not see timeshares as a substitute for a second home. Also an advantage to a second home is it could become your retirement home in the future and your costs are more or less fixed from the time you buy it. Timeshare MFs increase every year. Timeshares are like renting a vacation home, not owning one.


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## CalGalTraveler (Aug 19, 2018)

TravelTime said:


> With MFs averaging $1000-$2600 per week (some more some less, depending on unit brand, unit size,  location, etc), how can timesharing compare to owning a second home? Mortgage, taxes, utilities and insurance do not exceed this amount per month even on a luxury home, which we own as a second home (assuming you put down a decent down payment). Plus you have appreciation potential with a home. Timesharing to me is wonderful for flexibility and visiting many different places. I do not see timeshares as a substitute for a second home. Also an advantage to a second home is it could become your retirement home in the future and your costs are more or less fixed from the time you buy it. Timeshare MFs increase every year. Timeshares are like renting a vacation home, not owning one.



It will all depend on where the vacation home is located - ours runs $12 - $20k a year and expenses such as property taxes, utilities and capital improvements increase regularly just like TS maintenance fees.

True the value will hold or increase but resort communities are the first to decline in value if the economy falters.

Resale timeshares are also less capital and time intensive. With interest rates rising, you might do better putting the money from investing in a vacation home into the stock market or fixed investments with a lot less risk and hassle.


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## DeniseM (Aug 19, 2018)

We have a 2nd home in the mountains, and our favorite timeshares are on the beach, so it's a good balance. 

We built our vacation home 5 years ago, so it's new and doesn't need a lot of repairs, but of course we had to furnish and decorate it.  We did some of the landscaping final touches ourselves, but had most of it done professionally.  We have no grass - it's a low maintenance yard with river rock, shrubs, evergreens, and a large patio.  It has as a drip system on a timer.

My husband retired 3 months ago and he likes to putter around the garage and yard and do projects, so he enjoys it.  We do have both houses cleaned by services. 

About a year after we built the vacation home, my husband got a big promotion at work, which meant that he had a lot less time to enjoy our vacation home, but we will use it a lot now.  Since he retired 3  months ago, we've spent 4 weeks in Hawaii and 4 weeks at out home in the mountains.

*The nice thing about the vacation home is that we can go on the spur of the moment, because everything we need is there.  

As a plus, it has increased significantly in value, so we could sell it for a profit if we needed to.


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## Fredflintstone (Aug 19, 2018)

Gee, now that I’m kinda of retired (still dabble in my business but have a manager full time), I found the best thing to do was rent my second home. No maintenance, freedom to go Anywhere and kind of costs me nothing.... let me explain that.

I used to own a second home in Florida and sold it for 400 k. That 400 k is now professionally Managed by a bank. I get, on average, 24k a year  income on the 400 k. 

Last winter, I rented a place that was a guest cottage on a guys land that backed on to the Ocean in Kauai. I paid 3 k a month and stayed there 3 months. This guest cottage was 2400 square feet. I was able to pick veggies from the guys garden, use his pool and spare car (as long as I put gas in it). I was a 20 minute drive from Hanalei Bay. For that price, weekly maid service was included.  So, I am actually ahead as my second home cost me a little under 8 k a year to maintain.

This winter I’m staying at a beach front home near puerto Vallarta for 1400 a month for 2 months. It’s 1600 square feet. Ive never been at this one but it sure looks nice.

I think that beats the average maintenance fee costs of timeshares too.




Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## Panina (Aug 19, 2018)

Fredflintstone said:


> Gee, now that I’m kinda of retired (still dabble in my business but have a manager full time), I found the best thing to do was rent my second home. No maintenance, freedom to go Anywhere and kind of costs me nothing.... let me explain that.
> 
> I used to own a second home in Florida and sold it for 400 k. That 400 k is now professionally Managed by a bank. I get, on average, 24k a year  income on the 400 k.
> 
> ...



Seems you found what works for you.   For everyone it’s different.


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## TravelTime (Aug 19, 2018)

Fredflintstone said:


> Gee, now that I’m kinda of retired (still dabble in my business but have a manager full time), I found the best thing to do was rent my second home. No maintenance, freedom to go Anywhere and kind of costs me nothing.... let me explain that.
> 
> I used to own a second home in Florida and sold it for 400 k. That 400 k is now professionally Managed by a bank. I get, on average, 24k a year  income on the 400 k.
> 
> ...



Renting by the month will be cheaper than renting a timeshare by the week. I don’t find your Kaui situation comparable to either a second home or a timeshare.


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## Fredflintstone (Aug 19, 2018)

TravelTime said:


> Renting by the month will be cheaper than renting a timeshare by the week. I don’t find your Kaui situation comparable to either a second home or a timeshare.



I would agree there. The guy that owns it is very well off. He lost his wife 2 years ago and rents it (I think) cheap for the company. That’s what I mean by I find finding rental gems like that one more rewarding and cheaper than timesharing or owning.

But saying that, I do have great memories of my timesharing and my second home ownership days. 

It adds to what I think is important in life. That being good memories, good character and good relationships. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## vacationhopeful (Aug 19, 2018)

I spent 2.5 years in college in Florida ... west of Daytona Beach ... where I have my BS degree. It was cold enough to learn Ft Lauderdale is a better for pool floating in the winter. Great university ... did and took whatever I wanted .. where else could I have convinced the registar that a year abroad program in NJ was equal to my roommate's year in Germany? Is there a difference in studying German over Computer Languages? No difference as it turns out. My BS was for my Math major with an accounting minor PLUS the Computer Science's 40 credit hours. My Rutgers U Comp Sci classes counted for my foreign language requirement, too .. computer language, right? My roommate was a German major ... she did her junior year in Germany .. and  I did my year abroad at Rugters U. 

YES, it was the early 70s. NO, I did not do drugs .. just might have seem like I did.


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## Ralph Sir Edward (Aug 20, 2018)

That's really interesting -- I've explored a storage unit for boogie boards, beach chairs, fold up table, floats, etc, but I'd never considered leaving clothes. How do they hold up in storage, do you vacuum seal or anything? Does anyone else have a storage unit and what do you leave in your storage unit? Thanks again for the thoughts!

Greg, I store them in suitcases. Take them out and run them through the laundry. Drawback? If you have a fluctuating waistline, this won't work too well. 

I don't have the vacuum bag setup, but that should work even better. I keep 4 changes of clothes, plus I pack one tropical change (shorts, aloha shirt, ect.) in my go bag. Now, every few years, I will bring a new set of clothes, (at least that is the plan) and swap out. You put in the suitcase (packed) when you leave, and pull it out when you arrive. Plus any kitchenware, and any beach stuff. Electronics may be dicey, ask me how they store in January 2019. (I'm running a test of a keyboard and monitor.)

Furthermore, there is size and type to consider. I am currently using a 2x2x4 in Hilo, not climate controlled, so I am tested the "worst case scenario" for storage. Why Hilo? Because there is only one place on the dry side that rents that small of storage areas, and you have to climb a ladder to access those.  But I am only paying $250 a year, and I write a block check for a year at a time when I get my stuff.

If you want easy access on the dry side, you have to get a 5X5X8, which is upwards of $100 a month ($1200 a year). On the other hand, you can get climate controlled for your money, which is about like storing things in your home closet. (You pays your money and takes your choice.) 

As is usual, don't store anything of great value in a self storage unit. but simple things, like boogie boards, cabanas, clothes, cooking gear, tabby shoes, fins, ect. Works for me (at least to the extent of what I store -which is only some of those things.)

Note - this is only for a surrogate second home. If you aren't going to go at least once a year, it's not worth the money. . .


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## Ralph Sir Edward (Aug 20, 2018)

TravelTime said:


> With MFs averaging $1000-$2600 per week (some more some less, depending on unit brand, unit size,  location, etc), how can timesharing compare to owning a second home? Mortgage, taxes, utilities and insurance do not exceed this amount per month even on a luxury home, which we own as a second home (assuming you put down a decent down payment). Plus you have appreciation potential with a home. Timesharing to me is wonderful for flexibility and visiting many different places. I do not see timeshares as a substitute for a second home. Also an advantage to a second home is it could become your retirement home in the future and your costs are more or less fixed from the time you buy it. Timeshare MFs increase every year. Timeshares are like renting a vacation home, not owning one.



With the advantage of that you can rent the same home every year. You don't have that assurance with a straight vacation home rental.

As for the dollars, how long do you stay at your vacation home? That is the real comparison. You pay for everything, all year long. If you only stay there for a month, you are paying for the entire year, anyways, for which you don't use most of it.

Here's the hard dollars in my case. I want to stay a month in Kohala, Hawaii, in the winter. 1300 sq foot 2BDR/2BTH top floor unit at Bay Club runs currently around $6500 MFs. So far, I have put in $11,600 in purchase costs (including closing costs). I have one more even year unit to buy. (Currently at 4 odd weeks, 3 even weeks.) Most likely total will be under $15,000 total, upfront.

There are almost identical condo units across the golf course. A similar unit to my timeshare runs $500,000+. Assuming a 4% rate of return (either as lost income from money put in as equity, or as interest on the mortgage) it is costing you $20,000 a year, before taxes, utilities and condo fees (which probably combined run at least $10,000 a year).

$30,000 versus $6,500. Plus no headaches of ownership, nor rental property headaches, if you rent out the unused time. To me, $6,500 in MF's, even though they rise, is the preferred deal. YMMV.


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## CalGalTraveler (Aug 20, 2018)

TravelTime said:


> Renting by the month will be cheaper than renting a timeshare by the week. I don’t find your Kaui situation comparable to either a second home or a timeshare.



Renting for a month could be cheaper if you can find it. However, I believe it will be hit and miss. Especially if it is a resort community with peak seasons.

I am curious why a landlord would rent it out for the month during peak season for a significantly lower price if they can rent by the week and make much more money during peak season?  Wouldn't the monthly rents be higher during peak season thus significantly reducing the cost differential between renting for a month and TS?

If the landlord wanted more stability in rents, why wouldn't they rent it out to long term renters rather than messing around with ST/monthly rentals when it will be vacant during low season?

The other factor is how many of these rental properties have the resort amenities of the timeshares? This will depend on type and location.


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## WVBaker (Aug 20, 2018)

Just some thoughts.

As with primary residence, even when your not there, you will have property taxes and insurance. Also, you may still be charged for water, gas, electrical, trash removal, landscaping, and other maintenance services. Some utility companies charge a minimum amount per month just for access to the service even when you're not there. Utility costs can be high on vacation rentals. Those who may rent your property will often take, shall we say, a less considerate approach to water and electricity usage.

As for costs, there’s the ever present management fees. Infrequent use or renting will require finding a good local property manager that will maintain this home. Again, it will be an additional cost, but so will any damage from those frozen pipes or leaky roof. A good number of your "vacation" days may spent at the local home improvement store. Keep in mind it's a house, not a hotel, so it needs just as much year-round upkeep as your primary home. Repairs, maintenance and landscaping need constant attention.

Crime never takes a vacation. If you’re going to leave the vacation home unoccupied for long stretches of time, a break in or other crime can be particularly frustrating.  Don't forget to add the cost of a security and alarm monitoring systems to your budget.

Is it a good investment? When comparing only to timeshares, perhaps. A somewhat simple approach to determining this can be looked at like this. If you paid $135,000 for the property a few years ago and just sold it for $200,000, you may be thinking you made a great investment. However, you must also consider all the costs during your reign of ownership such as, property taxes, insurance, utilities, interest paid on the loan, perhaps a new hot water heater, new dishwasher and the transaction costs of buying and selling the property.

When all is said and done, the bottom line may show you came very close to breaking even on the property. Now, factor in the opportunity costs of having that money tied up in a vacation home compared to a productive portfolio of stocks, bonds or other investments.

Perhaps most people are better off spending those discretionary funds on vacation rentals.


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## Panina (Aug 20, 2018)

WVBaker said:


> Just some thoughts.
> 
> As with primary residence, even when your not there, you will have property taxes and insurance. Also, you may still be charged for water, gas, electrical, trash removal, landscaping, and other maintenance services. Some utility companies charge a minimum amount per month just for access to the service even when you're not there. Utility costs can be high on vacation rentals. Those who may rent your property will often take, shall we say, a less considerate approach to water and electricity usage.
> 
> ...


All true and my preference is timeshares but there is nothing like the convenience of walking through the door of a place you own and everything being there. 

If you go over and over to the same area owning a second home can make financial sense.  One can own a property that costs less to use even with all the expenses that is far superior to renting. 

For example, I own a small coop apartment  in a borough of New York City.  Being in an apartment building it keeps costs and maintenance issues down, under $500 a month including everything. Granted I got it at a bargain price when the RE market was down. I call it my on demand timeshare.


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## CalGalTraveler (Aug 20, 2018)

One other factor is in the event of a catastrophic loss e.g. hurricane, flood etc. Frequently these events are not covered fully (if at all) by insurance. With the new tax law, the tax write-off for catastrophic losses starting in 2018 is now limited to areas designated as a national disaster zone by the Fed Government.

In the Lake Tahoe area, many homes suffered flooding losses from the extreme run-off caused by the 2016 - 17 season 100-year snowfall. This impacted homes not in flood zones; many homeowners did not carry insurance.

If you are renting VRBO/AirBnB you can write off the entire amount in 2017 taxes. If you used the home as a second home, you'd only get a % of AGI.  However because an event like Lake Tahoe snow run-off wasn't designated a national disaster zone, these homes would not qualify for the write-off starting in 2018 so you would be left footing the entire bill to repair if it happens again in the future.

The new tax law is not going to help you unless you keep it as a rental but you still have to shell out $$$ to repair.

This is where renting or owning a timeshare (to hedge your cost of the assessment), can pay off.

Our CPA told us long ago that we would be much better off selling our vacation home and investing the money in the stock market.


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## vacationhopeful (Aug 20, 2018)

I own the vacation home in my current avatar .. since 1976. Planted those rodies from a 1 gallon container. Paid off the 15yo mortgage decades ago. Re-did the entire inside some years ago. I used to rent it .. the first 7+ years I owned it ... but move there when I was going to graduate school in the area. I like going there ... it is quiet BUT all the regulars I used to hang with are GONE. And the new people are NOT weekend or even vacation people .. but commuters to jobs 100+ miles away in NYC. There is a bus line which RUNS commuter buses to/from NYC. Get on bus, fall asleep and get off bus.


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## Panina (Aug 20, 2018)

vacationhopeful said:


> I own the vacation home in my current avatar .. since 1976. Planted those rodies from a 1 gallon container. Paid off the 15yo mortgage decades ago. Re-did the entire inside some years ago. I used to rent it .. the first 7+ years I owned it ... but move there when I was going to graduate school in the area. I like going there ... it is quiet BUT all the regulars I used to hang with are GONE. And the new people are NOT weekend or even vacation people .. but commuters to jobs 100+ miles away in NYC. There is a bus line which RUNS commuter buses to/from NYC. Get on bus, fall asleep and get off bus.


Sometimes the places we love the most, changes the most and we prefer how it use to be. As much as others love NYC now, the borough have changed so much. Every time I go it is so evident.  The mom and pop restaurants with real authentic world cooking are gone, the fabulous old time bakers are gone  and the friendliness of the shops are gone.


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## Fredflintstone (Aug 20, 2018)

CalGalTraveler said:


> One other factor is in the event of a catastrophic loss e.g. hurricane, flood etc. Frequently these events are not covered fully (if at all) by insurance. With the new tax law, the tax write-off for catastrophic losses starting in 2018 is now limited to areas designated as a national disaster zone by the Fed Government.
> 
> In the Lake Tahoe area, many homes suffered flooding losses from the extreme run-off caused by the 2016 - 17 season 100-year snowfall. This impacted homes not in flood zones and so many homeowners did not carry insurance.
> 
> ...



Your CPA is right! 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## TravelTime (Aug 20, 2018)

Ralph Sir Edward said:


> With the advantage of that you can rent the same home every year. You don't have that assurance with a straight vacation home rental.
> 
> As for the dollars, how long do you stay at your vacation home? That is the real comparison. You pay for everything, all year long. If you only stay there for a month, you are paying for the entire year, anyways, for which you don't use most of it.
> 
> ...



There is no comparison of owning a “vacation” home you love to renting a timeshare for a month. Financially, you will lose if you do not rent out the vacation home when you are not using it. You would probably break even on the monthly costs if you rented out your vacation home when you are not using it plus the appreciation over time. In our case, we do not rent out our second home because we do not like anyone in our personal homes and I use it 1-2 weeks a month. I do not think of it as a second home or vacation home. I think of it as I live in 2 locations part time. I have two home residences. Yes, it costs double to run two personal residences every year but this is how I like to live right now. Plus I still have all our timeshares and we take other vacations too.


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## TravelTime (Aug 20, 2018)

WVBaker said:


> Just some thoughts.
> 
> As with primary residence, even when your not there, you will have property taxes and insurance. Also, you may still be charged for water, gas, electrical, trash removal, landscaping, and other maintenance services. Some utility companies charge a minimum amount per month just for access to the service even when you're not there. Utility costs can be high on vacation rentals. Those who may rent your property will often take, shall we say, a less considerate approach to water and electricity usage.
> 
> ...



The same might be said about owing your primary home vs renting a house or apartment. Over 30 years, you may only break even vs renting given the opportunity cost of money, the maintenance expenses, mortgage plus interest paid, etc. Some say owning a home is just a forced savings plan but it really does not provide a great return over the long run and it would be better to put your money into a mutual fund for 30 years than own a home.


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## Jan M. (Aug 20, 2018)

People we know have a vacation house in the Outer Banks, NC that they rent out. Minor problems are taken care of by the company who handles their rentals. It seems like every few years they have had to drop everything and get down there asap after storm did damage to the house. When they go for their vacations they are always taking care of things that need updated or replaced. With most vacation rental areas there is a season and weather issues for whatever that season is can really hurt rental income. When the people we know built their house almost 25 years ago it was one of the premier properties in that area. There are always bigger and better houses being built and while their house is still very nice it is more mid range compared to the houses built since then. Their house is ocean front but when we first visited them there years ago we weren't thrilled with how long the hike was over the dune and down the beach to get to the water. They were very, very smart to buy a lot that was so deep and build so far back on it because now they aren't nearly as far from the water!


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## vacationhopeful (Aug 20, 2018)

As for owning this vacation home and its yearly costs ... not as much as you would think.

No Mortgage payments ... was a 15 year loan that was paid off in 1991. Sunk costs of $6500 (land) and $28,500 (improvements) for a *$35,000* 1976 purchase costs. 4% ROI on the original purchase price is $117/monthly or $1400 yearly (lost opportunity costs on the purchase monies).
*Cash Carrying Costs yearly*..... *$327.30 monthly.*
Home Owners Insurance yearly due 8/18/18* $970*
Trash service is private pay and NOT used .. I just bring the trash home with me.
Property taxes yearly due 9/10/18 is *$1767.12* 
Electric (heat tape, heat, hot water, well water, lights, cooking, refrigerator)  *$99.20* budget billing (was $80.76 last yearly monthly budget billing via PPL electric company). Just got the NEW numbers yesterday.
EACH Round Trip travel costs about *$100* (just to/from is 300 miles) including tolls (bridge & turnpike $20) and gas $80.
So that totals is* $3927.52 yearly or $327.30 month carrying costs starting for 9/1/2018 ... 2018-2019.*

*Carrying costs $3927.52 PLUS lost opportunity costs $1404.00 of original purchase money totals $5331.52  or $444.29 monthly.
*
Yes, the place is up-to-date. Just no cable TV or over the air TV "rabbit ear" service. I refuse to pay $100+ per month for something that would be used a few days monthly ... aka increasing my monthly costs by about 22%. I own many. many DVDs. But a co-worker swears DishTV has a option to turn/off their service very reasonably ... for ONLY the days I would be up there.

Does not include trip travel costs .. gas, tolls, mileage. But I am not flying to far off lands, renting a car, etc. Or paying any lodging costs. Or eating out many meals.

As for ABOUT the original 1976 purchase costs  ... $6500 for the lot, $28,500 for the house, and for furniture N/A as it was donated or gifted or recycle or brought used.* $35,000. So if I took the original $35,000 buy in costs ... at 4% ROI is $1400 yearly.

Do I enjoy my invested ROI $1404 (on original costs) yearly and my $3927.52 yearly expenses (for carrying costs) for $5331.52 yearly or $102.53 weekly? 

I think so. And definitely ..... cheaper than a timeshare stay. Once per calendar month at $444.29 per stay or $102.53 every weekend.

PS #1.* There are critters which wander around outside my house ... multiple deer (almost every trip), BLACK BEAR (and I have the pictures to prove what bears do in the woods) and skunks (just once*).

PS #2. *If I just consider my costs to NOW be ONLY the actually operating costs per year ... no ROI recovery or offset ...it  is $75.53 per week. Or $327.29 per calendar month. Cheap for operating costs ... a one floor abode. 
*
PS #3. *What could I recover on selling this place? More than the $35,000 I paid years ago? Yes and along with the selling costs*. 

PS #4. *Recovery of all capital improvement plus the original costs with yearly plus all capital updates, improvements and being furnished? No*.

PS #5. S*hould have brought the Jersey Shore house in Avalon, NJ I looked at ... a $45,000 2 bdr rancher within 2 blocks of the beach. TODAY most likely would be worth $1,750,000+. It was just more than my newly built Jersey 3bdr rancher where I lived and ... 1.5 times the cost, used and smaller ... and I saw little use for a beach house as I liked skiing and spent most of my summers as a teenager in the woods at Girl Scout camp. Still mumble sometimes .. SHOULD HAVE .*. til I remember, I dislike the "Jersey Shore" beachy people.

PS #6 *I do have Winter deeded timeshares in Ft Lauderdale. Maybe that is a better option for me and my age over the Jersey Shore beach house. Less maintenance and no repairs. And both options were about the small distance to the Atlantic Ocean.


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## Panina (Aug 20, 2018)

vacationhopeful said:


> As for owning this vacation home and its yearly costs ... not as much as you would think.
> 
> No Mortgage payments ... was a 15 year loan that was paid off in 1991. Sunk costs of $6500 (land) and $28,500 (improvements) for a *$35,000* 1976 purchase costs. 4% ROI on the original purchase price is $117/monthly or $1400 yearly (lost opportunity costs on the purchase monies).
> *Cash Carrying Costs yearly*..... *$327.30 monthly.*
> ...


I can do the same breakdown and similar analysis  with my nyc coop but you did such a good job no need too.


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## vacationhopeful (Aug 20, 2018)

Your NYC coop would have some really COOL numbers ... numbers that I would mostly like go YIPES!!! with my eyes bulging out of my head. And glad I am NOT footing those bills.

Those 1976 numbers of my costs are nothing to NYC prices of just a few years ago. 

Although I could be talked into a week long SWAP of our vacation hide-w-ways.


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## Panina (Aug 20, 2018)

vacationhopeful said:


> Your NYC coop would have some really COOL numbers ... numbers that I would mostly like go YIPES!!! with my eyes bulging out of my head. And glad I am NOT footing those bills.
> 
> Those 1976 numbers of my costs are nothing to NYC prices of just a few years ago.
> 
> Although I could be talked into a week long SWAP of our vacation hide-w-ways.



My total monthly costs are similar to yours. Where my buy in was more then yours, not as much as you think. 4x with renovations but done a little over four years ago.  I can definitely sell for much more.  Like my timeshares I looked for the needle in the haystack and found the bargain. I must admit the building was dated but since I acquired they did a high end renovation without an increase in maintenance fee and no assessment.  It’s a financially stable HOA.


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## TravelTime (Aug 20, 2018)

I think we might be missing the point here. Based on numbers alone, buying anything (first home, second home, vacation home, timeshare, etc) would possibly be a financial mistake. Just look at all the folks who bought First homes at the height of the housing boom in 2006-2007. Most of those first homes have still not recovered except perhaps in the coastal areas of California and New York City. We also need to factor in the happiness quotient and lifestyle preferences, and disposable income to support decisions that might not pencil out financially. This would be like saying “don’t have kids” because they are too expensive.


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## TravelTime (Aug 20, 2018)

vacationhopeful said:


> As for owning this vacation home and its yearly costs ... not as much as you would think.
> 
> No Mortgage payments ... was a 15 year loan that was paid off in 1991. Sunk costs of $6500 (land) and $28,500 (improvements) for a *$35,000* 1976 purchase costs. 4% ROI on the original purchase price is $117/monthly or $1400 yearly (lost opportunity costs on the purchase monies).
> *Cash Carrying Costs yearly*..... *$327.30 monthly.*
> ...



I used to focus on the “should haves.” But then we got lucky and all our dreams came true.


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## Fredflintstone (Aug 20, 2018)

TravelTime said:


> I think we might be missing the point here. Based on numbers alone, buying anything (first home, second home, vacation home, timeshare, etc) would possibly be a financial mistake. Just look at all the folks who bought First homes at the height of the housing boom in 2006-2007. Most of those first homes have still not recovered except perhaps in the coastal areas of California and New York City. We also need to factor in the happiness quotient and lifestyle preferences, and disposable income to support decisions that might not pencil out financially. This would be like saying “don’t have kids” because they are too expensive.



I totally agree with factoring in happiness. If one is happy, the cost really doesn’t matter.

However, happiness can not be done by getting in debt. The only people hurt in the 2008 crash were those who bought a home that they couldn’t afford if any of the mortgage terms changed and/or they lose their job(s). So budgeting determines what someone can afford and if that’s a free timeshare with 1k fees so be it.

Those people who budgeted did fine in the 2008 crash and actually cashed in on getting great home deals from those who over spent. 

The only exception I saw were those who took a hit on the 2008 stock market decline. In my case, I didn’t need the funds and actually saved more money and loaded up at the time. Again, emergency savings and budgeting to the rescue. 





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## TravelTime (Aug 20, 2018)

Fredflintstone said:


> I totally agree with factoring in happiness. If one is happy, the cost really doesn’t matter.
> 
> However, happiness can not be done by getting in debt. The only people hurt in the 2008 crash were those who bought a home that they couldn’t afford if any of the mortgage terms changed and/or they lose their job(s). So budgeting determines what someone can afford and if that’s a free timeshare with 1k fees so be it.
> 
> ...



I qualified by saying assuming you have the disposable income. If you do not have the disposable income to afford a second home or a timeshare, you should not buy one.

I do know people who are still underwater on their first homes that they bought during the housing boom. These are decent people who saved their entire lives to buy their first home. They are still paying the mortgage on a home that is worth less than what they paid for it. Not everyone who bought a home at the peak have let it go. Nor has everyone recovered. In fact, it shocks me how many housing markets are still below the peak in the late 2000s.


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## Fredflintstone (Aug 20, 2018)

TravelTime said:


> I qualified by saying assuming you have the disposable income. If you do not have the disposable income to afford a second home or a timeshare, you should not buy one.
> 
> I do know people who are still underwater on their first homes that they bought during the housing boom. These are decent people who saved their entire lives to buy their first home. They are still paying the mortgage on a home that is worth less than what they paid for it. Not everyone who bought a home at the peak have let it go. Nor has everyone recovered. In fact, it shocks me how many housing markets are still below the peak in the lates 2000s.



Great points. I know people to still underwater a bit but are not nearly as underwater as they would have been if they were forced out by their mortgage. 


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## CalGalTraveler (Aug 20, 2018)

In pondering this further: comparing second homes to timeshares is not apples to apples because the financial commitment is significantly larger and riskier with a second home. (vacation homes purchased pre-2000 exempted because we are evaluating acquiring these options at todays prices.)

Some people simply cannot afford the burden of a vacation home, and a timeshare is a less costly alternative.

The determination of whether to rent vs. buy really depends on the situation. We purchased Westin Maui Oceanfront because renting the same unit from owners would have paid for the unit in 2.5 years and we envision visiting Hawaii consistently in the future. There are certainly other locations where we plan to rent or use II cash getaways because the economics of renting are much better.


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## TravelTime (Aug 20, 2018)

Yes I agree that comparing timeshares to second homes is not apples to apples. It is probably not even the same target market. Most people can’t afford a second home for pleasure. Everyone I know who has a second home really has a rental propoerty, not a vacation home or second home.


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## CalGalTraveler (Aug 20, 2018)

TravelTime said:


> Yes I agree that comparing timeshares to second homes is not apples to apples. It is probably not even the same target market. Most people can’t afford a second home for pleasure. Everyone I know who has a second home really has a rental propoerty, not a vacation home or second home.



Ours was truly a second home for 18 years and we only began renting it 2.5 years ago. Before renting we found ourselves never going there and it was sitting idle because we were going other places as our kids grew older. We began to get nervous because there was no one checking in on the property and it's 4 hours away. We now have a local property manager who checks in on it regularly. With 2 kids in college with big bills the rental revenue is welcome. 

Someday, we may turn it back into a vacation home or trade for another rental.


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## Carol C (Aug 21, 2018)

geist1223 said:


> We are both coffee drinkers. Most of the cups or mugs (ha) provided by the timeshares are always so small. On Kauai we bought some real mugs at a thrift store for a 50 cents each and then just left them behind. That called and asked them if we wanted then mailed to us. We said no. Patti says she is adding real mugs to the plastic totes for drive to locations.



Anyone going to Hilton Head? Please shop at the Litter Box on Old Wild Horse Rd for mugs. Support pet rescue and spay neuter programs and get your mug on!


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## Ralph Sir Edward (Aug 21, 2018)

vacationhopeful said:


> As for owning this vacation home and its yearly costs ... not as much as you would think.
> 
> No Mortgage payments ... was a 15 year loan that was paid off in 1991. Sunk costs of $6500 (land) and $28,500 (improvements) for a *$35,000* 1976 purchase costs. 4% ROI on the original purchase price is $117/monthly or $1400 yearly (lost opportunity costs on the purchase monies).
> *Cash Carrying Costs yearly*..... *$327.30 monthly.*
> ...



Ummm. In 1976, I was a sophomore in college, in no position to buy any real estate.

And as far as capital appreciation, in 1976, one could have bought Berkshire Hathaway (Warren Buffet's company) at $200 a share or so. For the price of that vacation home, one could have bought 175 shares (or so) of Berkshire. Today at $314,000 a share, that would be $54,959,000. . .

There are many ways to live a life, and just as many tastes. No one of them is better than another. . .


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## WVBaker (Aug 21, 2018)

As Homer once said... _after the event, even a fool is wise. _


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## TravelTime (Aug 23, 2018)

We all kick ourselves in hindsight.


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## ronparise (Aug 23, 2018)

WVBaker said:


> Just some thoughts.
> 
> As with primary residence, even when your not there, you will have property taxes and insurance. Also, you may still be charged for water, gas, electrical, trash removal, landscaping, and other maintenance services. Some utility companies charge a minimum amount per month just for access to the service even when you're not there. Utility costs can be high on vacation rentals. Those who may rent your property will often take, shall we say, a less considerate approach to water and electricity usage.
> 
> ...




Regarding the investment potential. The hope of course is that the vacation home will appreciate and the timeshare probably not but that’s not the way I’d look at it

Let’s compare  a $200000 vacation home that i plan is to use it 4 months a year. To 4 months of timeshares. The cost to maintain the vacation home is equal to the maintenance fee. 

 I expect the  vacation home will appreciate at 5% a year and the timeshares will depreciate to zero

But for appreciation potential,  the timeshare is not what I should compare the vacation home to. I assume the timeshares can be purchased for about $15000 (Worldmark is my example) which leaves $185000 to invest somewhere else 

So the comparison should be between the appreciation potential of the vacation home to the appreciation potential of the cash invested in the stock or bond markets. (Or something else like a mortgage) 

Also owning timeshares is not the only alternative to owning a vacation home.  You could rent a vacation home or rent timeshares or stay in a hotel, or buy an RV or do what I did.  

I bought a boat. (2 bedrooms, 2 baths) What I pay for dock fees and maintenance is less than taxes, insurance and condo fees at a nearby condo building. And about the same as maintenance fees for 4 months of timeshare


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## CalGalTraveler (Aug 23, 2018)

We have friends at Lake Tahoe and on SF Bay who own boats and stay on them as a second home for weekends and love it.

Boats and RVs are similar to Timeshares because they lose value but have differences:

Boat Pros
- Waterfront real estate at beer prices when buying resale
- You control maintenance fees (to a certain extent)
- Ability to take it places you can't go by car (within a geo area)
- Boats have status of ownership e.g.
  "I own a boat."  People rarely brag, "I own a timeshare."
- Some boats have luxury amenities similar to a condo

Boat Cons
- Need to know boating rules of the road and boat safety - not ideal for toddlers who need to wear a life jacket at all times and cannot run around.
- Cramped quarters - Hard to stay for weeks. Sound of water lapping on fiberglass hull at night, rocking boat not conducive for sleep for some.
- Resale boat amenities/quality less uniform. Harder to find what you want. (every boat is different vs. timeshare which is relatively consistent within a resort)
- Boats require a LOT of maintenance and cleaning. There's always something and the salt and water are hard on boats.
- Annual Drydocking fees to clear barnacles and paint hull add to maintenance cost
- Docking fees add to monthly burden (and you don't control rent increases)
- After 20 years the boat may be unusable e.g. engine end of life. Timeshares are renovated and still usable.
- New boats can cost $75k or more - diverting $ from interest bearing accounts or stock that could earn more.


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## WinniWoman (Aug 23, 2018)

To me boats are uncomfortable and so are RV's but to each his own. No matter how spacious I still would get claustrophobic.


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## vacationhopeful (Aug 23, 2018)

If a person wants a income stream, a vacation home almost always NOT a good investment. Yes, there are exceptions. I looked at a Jersey shore rancher in Avalon, NJ about 3 blocks from the beach. In 1976, asking price was under $45,000 ... has to be well over $1MM today. I am NOT a shore person .. never have been. EXCEPT since 1976, hurricane insurance is a MUST and pricey OR your $1MM home becomes part of the sandbar out in the ocean surf after the NEXT hurricane.

CAMPING ... I lived/worked 2 summers at a Girl Scout camp .. 7 weeks each summer. In a platform TENT for 4 people. Sleeping on old army cots. One summer, only COLD outdoor showers. Have NO interest in EVER going back to tent living. You develop an affair with your flashlight, bug spray is #2 after batteries for the flashlight and no one smells any different than you in camp .. but EXPECT weird looks when you leave the camp property. Working at a KFC-type fastfood kitchen then next summer ... WAY better. Less bugs, air conditioned when in the seating area or home at night, you slept in a real bed with A/C and better food. And MORE money.

And then living in Florida for 2.5 years after high school .... who needed A/C? I had a box fan ... BIG improvement over my camp days in the woods where the Jersey Devil lived.

PS I should have brought the $45,000 Avalon rancher in 1976 ... then, rode a time machine to 2018. Hence, I would have MISSED paying NJ real estate taxes for the decades in between and FLOOD insurance. Of course, if a hurricane had hit during those 42 years .. i still would have NOTHING or be floating in the Atlantic Ocean due to tidal beach erosion or ice cap melt.


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