# New York City: How "Regentrified" Is Harlem?



## Hoc (Apr 24, 2006)

Some friends and I will be in New York City this May.  We each get to pick one thing to do, and one of my friends wants to go to Harlem.  Another one says that he doesn't want to do that, because it's dangerous.

I know that Harlem has undergone a rebirth over the past 6 years or so (and that even some parts of the South Bronx are now safe), but I suggested that we might take a tour, something like a Harlem Spirituals Tour, in order to avoid any potential problems.  Now, I know that Harlem is part of a city, and like in any city, you need to be aware of your surroundings.  But, I thought I'd check with you New Yorkers out there.  Are there still parts of Harlem that are particularly dangerous, that should be avoided?  Or, is it now OK to wander around aimlessly through the neighborhood?  More dangerous at night?  Avoid parts entirely at night?  Any advice?

P.S. -- A benefit to avoiding an organized tour is that I can steer the group to eat at Amy Ruth's, rather than at a touristy soul food restaurant, and I can steer them on Sunday to a real gospel service, rather than the touristy one that all the tours frequent.


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## mamiecarter (Apr 24, 2006)

Harlem should be safe during daylight hours, probably as safe as anywhere in New York City. I wouldn't walk through some of the parks alone anytime of day but that goes for all of the city. With a group your OK almost any time of day as long as you don't go looking for trouble. Just be polight and you will find New Yorkers are nice and even friendly. I've worked in Harlem off and on and never had a problem. Those tours are expensive and unnessasary. If you have a large group you should call ahead and let them know your coming for church services and restarants and you'll get extra special nice treatment. Have fun!


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## Holly (Apr 25, 2006)

Go.  Have a great time.  You will be very pleasantly surprised at the wonderful people you will meet.  A tour would be my very last choice...I hate those things.


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## Kevin (Apr 25, 2006)

Hoc said:
			
		

> Some friends and I will be in New York City this May.  We each get to pick one thing to do, and one of my friends wants to go to Harlem.  Another one says that he doesn't want to do that, because it's dangerous.
> 
> I know that Harlem has undergone a rebirth over the past 6 years or so (and that even some parts of the South Bronx are now safe), but I suggested that we might take a tour, something like a Harlem Spirituals Tour, in order to avoid any potential problems.  Now, I know that Harlem is part of a city, and like in any city, you need to be aware of your surroundings.  But, I thought I'd check with you New Yorkers out there.  Are there still parts of Harlem that are particularly dangerous, that should be avoided?  Or, is it now OK to wander around aimlessly through the neighborhood?  More dangerous at night?  Avoid parts entirely at night?  Any advice?
> 
> P.S. -- A benefit to avoiding an organized tour is that I can steer the group to eat at Amy Ruth's, rather than at a touristy soul food restaurant, and I can steer them on Sunday to a real gospel service, rather than the touristy one that all the tours frequent.



Hoc,

We'll be in NYC in late June.  We'll probably go to church in Harlem on a Sunday morning and we'll definitely have a meal there during the week.  Being in NY for the first time... we'll be aware of our surroundings no matter when and where we are.  

I lived in South L.A. and my family is still there and I never had any problems.  I move to a "nice" area of _"The OC"... _I've had my car broken into twice in the last year!  

Hope you have a good time.  Please update us on your Harlem experience.  Thanks!
Kevin


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## Hoc (Apr 25, 2006)

mamiecarter said:
			
		

> Those tours are expensive and unnessasary.



But, without the tours, how would we know where to go and what to see?  I suspect that wandering around aimlessly would not yield much satisfaction.


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## 3kids4me (Apr 25, 2006)

Hoc said:
			
		

> But, without the tours, how would we know where to go and what to see?  I suspect that wandering around aimlessly would not yield much satisfaction.




This might be a good start!

http://www.nycvisit.com/content/index.cfm?pagePkey=435

(I wish they had an all-in-one site like this for London!)


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## hudson1126 (Apr 25, 2006)

Gentrification? Not so you'd notice unless you had spent a lot of time there before and knew how deteriorated many blocks had been. 

At the Metro North Train Station ( Park at 125th Street), you can walk up to the platforms and get a birds eye view of the nearby blocks. 

City Walks: New York, published by Chronicle books( www.chroniclebooks.com) is a packet of pocket size cards each with a different neighorhood's walking tour of NYC. Map on the front and self-tour directions on the back. 

Harlem 1 "Take the A Train"  and Harlem 2 "Haute Harlem and Historic Harlem:

1) Apollo Theater, Studio Museumof Harlem, Mount Morris Historic District, Marcus Garvey memorial park, Sylvia's Restaurant, Schomburg Center for Researach in Black Culture, Abyssinian Baptist Churcha and "Strivers row"

2)Historic Residential area beginning at Edgecombe and 160th sT and into Hamilton Heights.


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## Dani (Apr 25, 2006)

Hoc said:
			
		

> Some friends and I will be in New York City this May.  We each get to pick one thing to do, and one of my friends wants to go to Harlem.  Another one says that he doesn't want to do that, because it's dangerous.
> 
> I know that Harlem has undergone a rebirth over the past 6 years or so (and that even some parts of the South Bronx are now safe), but I suggested that we might take a tour, something like a Harlem Spirituals Tour, in order to avoid any potential problems.  Now, I know that Harlem is part of a city, and like in any city, you need to be aware of your surroundings.  But, I thought I'd check with you New Yorkers out there.  Are there still parts of Harlem that are particularly dangerous, that should be avoided?  Or, is it now OK to wander around aimlessly through the neighborhood?  More dangerous at night?  Avoid parts entirely at night?  Any advice?
> 
> P.S. -- A benefit to avoiding an organized tour is that I can steer the group to eat at Amy Ruth's, rather than at a touristy soul food restaurant, and I can steer them on Sunday to a real gospel service, rather than the touristy one that all the tours frequent.



   Like most neighborhoods that are in the process of gentrification, it is a "process."    There are some streets that you will feel perfectly safe walking down and others that you will not.   I would not recommend going to less populated areas in Harlem at night.   However, I would not hesitate to go alone without a tour during the day or to a location on or near 125th Street at night. If you have a plan, you can do Harlem without benefit of a tour easily.   

  I see that you have done your homework as Amy Ruth's is in the opinion of many including myself far better than more touristy places such as Sylvias.    "Hudson1126's" suggestions are on the money.  Of particular interest might be the beautiful homes on Strivers Row, Abyssinian Baptist Church and the Studio Museum.


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## Hoc (Apr 26, 2006)

Dani said:
			
		

> I see that you have done your homework as Amy Ruth's is in the opinion of many including myself far better than more touristy places such as Sylvia's.



Yes, and in fact, I had to talk some of the members of my group *out* of Sylvia's, based on what I had heard.  It's my understanding that the tour groups mostly go to Sylvia's, and that, while it was considered very good at one time, it's become touristy and underwhelming.

I also heard that the Gospel Church that most of the tours frequent is really only so-so, as well, and I had been considering the Abyssinian Baptist Church, as we were thinking of visiting on a Sunday morning.  Maybe breakfast at Amy Ruth's first (8 am or so) to avoid the crowds.

I figured that, while we were up there, we might visit the Cloisters, of which I've been hearing so much for the last 2-3 years.  But one of my friends is really into African American history, as well as Alexander Hamilton (who lived in Harlem for quite some time), and another is just starting to discover her own heritage, so I definitely want to hit the historically significant spots in Harlem for them.


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## mamiecarter (Apr 26, 2006)

The Cloisters is definetly worth seeing. It is a truely mideval experience and quiet idylic.The park that suronds it  is rocky and very pretty. A nice relief from the skyscrapers. 

Take a cab from Harlem if your short on time. It is a good walk from the subway and you have to walk back because you want get a cab at the museum itself. If you go to church on Sunday and then have lunch the Cloisters will take up the rest of the adternoon.


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## bigrick (Apr 26, 2006)

When I went to the Cloisters in the mid-1980s, we also went to the site of the Revolutionary War Battle of Harlem Heights.  Somewhere near Columbia University, off 120th Street between Broadway and Riverside Drive.

I'm finding these 1-week jaunts to NYC still leave too much to see and do there.  I requested a 2-week trade for next year on either summer shoulder.  Someone here suggested I move there.  Imagine that!  I was close in the mid-80s but then I met my wife and the NYC move plans changed.

That "other half" of Manhattan north of the Manhattan Club (including Central Park) is largely unexplored territory for us.  Thanks for this thread to whet our appetite for more places to go.


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## Scott_Ru (Apr 26, 2006)

I happen to think the Circle Line cruise around the island of Manhattan is a great take.  You really see how NYC is an ocean-based city and you get trememdous views of the exciting NY harbor, the Statute of Liberty, Ellis Island, as well as all the boroughs.

Enjoy your trip.


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## EducatedConsumer (Apr 26, 2006)

Call Hillary, see if she'll allow you to stop by Bill's office and say hello.


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## ArtsieAng (Apr 26, 2006)

bigrick said:
			
		

> When I went to the Cloisters in the mid-1980s, we also went to the site of the Revolutionary War Battle of Harlem Heights.  Somewhere near Columbia University, off 120th Street between Broadway and Riverside Drive.
> 
> I'm finding these 1-week jaunts to NYC still leave too much to see and do there.  I requested a 2-week trade for next year on either summer shoulder.  Someone here suggested I move there.  Imagine that!  I was close in the mid-80s but then I met my wife and the NYC move plans changed.
> 
> That "other half" of Manhattan north of the Manhattan Club (including Central Park) is largely unexplored territory for us.  Thanks for this thread to whet our appetite for more places to go.



Central Park, and the surrounding area would be a must see, IMHO. It is one of my favorite parts of the city. The park, the zoo, the museum, the restaurants, the hotels and stores are all really worth seeing.....


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## Hoc (Apr 26, 2006)

EducatedConsumer said:
			
		

> Call Hillary, see if she'll allow you to stop by Bill's office and say hello.



Believe me, when I jokingly had suggested we stop by Bill's office, my mom swooned.  If there were any way to do that, we would.


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## MULTIZ321 (Apr 26, 2006)

Hoc,

For your friend who is a fan of Alexander Hamilton - he is buried in the cemetary adjacent to Trinity Church on the south side of the building across from Wall  Street. Also,there's an exhibit room inside the church, toward the front on the left hand side where one can see various documents he signed
and his involvement in the early days of Trinity.

Also, the recent biography by Ron Chernow - "Alexander Hamilton" is a definitive work and very well written.  I recommend it highly if your friend hasn't already read it.


My wife and I are at the Manhattan Club until Friday and really enjoying our visit.

Regards,
Richard


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## Hoc (Apr 26, 2006)

ArtsieAng said:
			
		

> Central Park, and the surrounding area would be a must see, IMHO. It is one of my favorite parts of the city. The park, the zoo, the museum, the restaurants, the hotels and stores are all really worth seeing.....



With regard to the museums around the Central Park area, most people think of the Metropolitan Museum of Arts, the MOMA and the Guggenheim.  But a lot of people forget that the Museum of Natural Sciences is in the Upper West Side.  It is a fantastic museum, and includes dinosaur bones.  I thoroughly enjoyed it when I went.


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## MULTIZ321 (Apr 27, 2006)

I second Hoc's recommendation of the Museum of Natural History and Science.
It's located on Central Park West about 80th street and currently has a wonderful special exhibit on Charles Darwin and how his theory on evolution impacted the natural sciences, biology and religion.  One of the best exhibits I've ever gone to and I highly recommend it - definitely worth the extra ticket price.


Richard


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## 3kids4me (Apr 27, 2006)

The Museum of Natural History also has an awesome gem room and a wonderful live butterfly conservatory.  In addition, don't forget about the Rose Center Planetarium which is attached to the Museum.  It's one of the best planetariums I've ever visited and it recently went through a complete refurbishment.





Sharon


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## MaryH (Apr 28, 2006)

The Planetarium was awesome but I had not visited there since 2002 I think.  

I am going to be in NYC May 19 and proably till the 26.  
One of the restaurants I want to go again is Gotham Bar and Grill at 12 E 12 st.  Is it still good and are they still doing the 20.xx lunches on weekdays?


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