# Exchanging is sometimes much less expensive than owning  (Both II and RCI)



## rickandcindy23 (Feb 16, 2017)

I exchanged into a week at Hyatt Beach House in Key West with Foxrun, and that exchange was under $900 total with MF's and exchange.

Today I grabbed a week in San Francisco at The Donatello, a week that would cost me about $1,200 in Shell fees to book.  I used my Marriott's Willow Ridge plat studio, so I figure my cost at about $500 with exchange fee.

I exchanged into Wyndham Shearwater for May, 3 weeks, through RCI, and those weeks were 24 RCI Points each + exchange fees, and my cost per point is about $15, so $360 + $219 each for those weeks.  We own at Shearwater and know the fees are around $1,500 for a week.  

I am currently watching for some exchange matches for some Hilton resorts I hope to get for our family trip in 2018.  Those weeks would be very expensive with Hilton, but if I get my matches, my cost will be much less.  

So when people say, "Buy where you want to go," I disagree, except for that rare resort where you want a very specific view, like Hono Koa for us.  That is the only timeshare we actually always use.


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## missyrcrews (Feb 17, 2017)

rickandcindy23 said:


> I exchanged into a week at Hyatt Beach House in Key West with Foxrun, and that exchange was under $900 total with MF's and exchange.
> 
> Today I grabbed a week in San Francisco at The Donatello, a week that would cost me about $1,200 in Shell fees to book.  I used my Marriott's Willow Ridge plat studio, so I figure my cost at about $500 with exchange fee.
> 
> ...



Nice job working the system!  I agree that there are good deals to be had.  The extra vacation weeks are great, too.  RCI is not without it's pitfalls....but I've been able to make it work nicely for my family.


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## mdurette (Feb 17, 2017)

I agree, owning weeks with reasonable MFs and reasonable trading power is how I try to work it.    We own 2 weeks (one a lockoff) for about 10 years now, have never been to either property.  Always exchanged and have bought ALOT of getaways/extra vacations.    I think if you have the ability to plan ahead or the flexibility to plan extreme last minute you can get so much more out exchanging.

Over the years we have been many resorts that would have cost us so much OOP (or even renting from an owner) that we would have never been able to take the vacations in the first place.

In 2016....
1 BR South Mountain, Lincoln NH - Highest demand presidents week (OGS match)
2 BR Marriott Aruba Ocean club - school vacation week  (this one took a lot of work with Eplus, started with studio)
2 BR at Wellington in Newport, RI - end of june. (last minute TPU use)
2 BR at Smuggs in early August (Last minute TPU use)
2 BR at Marriott Grand Vista in Nov (getaway)
3 BR week 52 at Pollard Brook, Lincoln NH (LM getaway)

Coming up:
2BR Marriott Frenchmans Cove (LM exchange)
2BR Hyatt Pinion Pointe (OGS match)

Even giving each of these a conservative $350 per night rate OOP, these would have cost easily $20,000
For a 2 year period, exchange fees and getaway costs for these units were less than $5,000 (and I still have a bunch of TPUs left)

*To be fair....this does take a decent amount of work.   Learning the system and spending a ridiculous amount of time keeping your eye on inventory.* 

Then there is a second layer - how to get to all these places!   More learning on how to build up massive amounts of points for flights.   

On some level, it is a game for me.


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## hjtug (Feb 17, 2017)

mdurette said:


> We own 2 weeks (one a lockoff) for about 10 years now, have never been to either property.  Always exchanged and have bought ALOT of getaways/extra vacations.



We also own at two properties.  However, we did stay once at one of them - through an II exchange!


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## theo (Feb 17, 2017)

rickandcindy23 said:


> I exchanged into a week at Hyatt Beach House in Key West with Foxrun, and that exchange was under $900 total with MF's and exchange.
> 
> Today I grabbed a week in San Francisco at The Donatello, a week that would cost me about $1,200 in Shell fees to book.  I used my Marriott's Willow Ridge plat studio, so I figure my cost at about $500 with exchange fee.
> 
> ...



No one can argue with success and I tip my cap to your great results, but some people (among whom we now number) simply do not any longer (if they ever did) want to invest the time and endless inventory searching and overall uncertainty --- not to mention "deposit expiration management"; all inherent to playing the "exchange game". To each their own of course and if it works for you, that's great. Good on 'ya! 

I *mostly* subscribe to the "buy where you want to go" idea, but my own personal viewpoint might be better described as "buy where you would at least be *willing* to go, without reluctance, (...and can always afford to travel to), if exchanging or renting sometimes just doesn't work out".

We don't exchange at all anymore, haven't for some years now, but just as an aside I am curious how you exchanged into a Hyatt property (Beach House, Key West) without first having a Hyatt ownership. Is Hyatt a system that "exchangers" can access through RCI and / or II --- or via some other exchange company?


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## rickandcindy23 (Feb 17, 2017)

> We don't exchange at all anymore, haven't for some years now, but just as an aside I am curious how you exchanged into a Hyatt property (Beach House, Key West) without first having a Hyatt ownership. Is Hyatt a system that "exchangers" can access through RCI and / or II --- or via some other exchange company?



Yes, II is the exchange company I used to get Hyatt.  It does take a decent trader to get into a Hyatt.  There are quality filters and Foxrun does see all of the Hyatt resorts.  My 2 bedrooms at SBP are much higher fees and also see the same exact inventory.  Foxrun is just a great trader in II and gets a bonus week which I do not get with my SBP,.  I have bonus weeks (AC's) in my account I never use because they don't work for me, but occasionally my sister finds something with the bonus weeks.  She mostly books the resorts in Orlando, since she lives in Georgia.  My nieces have annual passes to Universal, so she gets cheap weeks from me to use.


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## elaine (Feb 17, 2017)

Bermuda in aug for under $1k for family of 4 was my good one, plus 6x dvc, all well under dvc annual fee, even with rci and dvc fee.
It takes a lot of work! If it wasn't a sorta fun hobby, I would just pay where I want to stay. But, even that doesn't always work out. Look at Marriott points-you have to be on the phone day 1 and even then people report being shut out.
I'm somewhat on the fence as to whether yes are even worth it anymore. We have 2 that we trade and dvc. That might be it for us.


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## rickandcindy23 (Feb 17, 2017)

We pay about $1,650 for our Hono Koa weeks each year, and we own three weeks, Those units are 40-50 feet from the ocean, we have a nice lanai, and we both just love owning there.  Even with Hono Koa, we have to call at exactly one year out, the moment the phone bank opens, to get our desired week. 

We wouldn't care to own anything else on Maui, we cannot really see owning 3 weeks at the Westin oceanfront (I would love to be able to afford it), but those maintenance fees are very high, and the purchase price is not $1.00 + closing.  So  I do my best to get exchanges and save money elsewhere.  But those three weeks, those are very important to us for traveling during whale season.  

Our Shell points have got to go.  The fees go up each year, and our benefits have gone down.  I am glad I got free points with free use and no closing costs.  They aren't worth the fees, that's for sure.  The only redeeming value is in booking Peacock Suites on weekdays, but I don't need the number we own for that.


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## sue1947 (Feb 17, 2017)

FSA for under $600 in a 2 BR.   I use Worldmark to trade and use the deposit first option which means I gamble on which week I'll get and adjust my goal accordingly.  When I get a good one, I go for FSA.  When I get a dog, I have to work harder but usually get something that is still an upgrade.  
If I didn't want to roll the dice on deposit first, I could do a request first and have a good chance of getting it each winter.  That would cost about $250 more; still a bargain.  
Once the FSA was in place, I then used RCI to book GEVC at Lighthouse Pt for $232 for the week and an II AC for Sedona Summit for $274.  I love a bargain and we even had decent weather in the rainiest winter in years.

Sue


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## K2Quick (Feb 17, 2017)

Generally speaking, the key to getting the trades you describe requires that you not be restricted to a school calendar.  Since getting our first timeshare in 2009, we've traded a ton.  Initially we exclusively traded.  But most of the really good trades were off-season weeks in very high-end resorts.  Those high-end resorts are rarely deposited in weeks when my kids are out of school.  On top of that, most of the really good stuff in II is covered by Marriott or Starwood preference so that makes it next to impossible to get those weeks outside of offseason stuff.  I've found myself using the Worldmark system far more frequently far more frequently than trading these days.


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## rickandcindy23 (Feb 17, 2017)

Well, as far as I can tell, owning Vistana (no longer Starwood), there is no longer a preference period for us in II.



> Generally speaking, the key to getting the trades you describe requires that you not be restricted to a school calendar.



The 2 bedroom at Hyatt Beach House, which I acquired with Foxrun week 16 for 2017 is indeed a summer, July week.


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## Panina (Feb 17, 2017)

Over the years I gave gotten great trades too, with weeks that have lesser maintence fees.  More recently, hyatt coconut plantation, hyatt beach house, Marriott sable palms, Hilton Tortuga beach club, Naples charter club just to name a few.

Being able to plan far in advance and flipping close to vacation date using interval eplus is what makes it work so well.

With that said, I own where I want to go,  prime weeks, prime locations.  Most of my weeks are hoa owned that are well runned, not  chain timeshare which make my maintenance reasonable. I usually do a request first, so if I don't get something better, I am still happy to go where I own.


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## mdurette (Feb 17, 2017)

K2Quick said:


> Generally speaking, the key to getting the trades you describe requires that you not be restricted to a school calendar.



I would disagree, either plan well in advance or be spontaneous and do something last minute.  My post above for our 2016/2017 gets are all over school vacations.   xmas, winter, spring and summer breaks.


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## missyrcrews (Feb 17, 2017)

Mdurette...us, too.  I don't take my kids out of school, so we are limited to break weeks/summer.  I don't have II, but we've done fine for RCI weeks. We also do a ton of extra vacation weeks. Next Feb break, we're at Attitash in a 2BR sleeps 8....for less than $500!  Kids are psyched about being right across from the mountain.  I'm not trying to exchange for Disney.


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## K2Quick (Feb 18, 2017)

rickandcindy23 said:


> The 2 bedroom at Hyatt Beach House, which I acquired with Foxrun week 16 for 2017 is indeed a summer, July week.


But that's an example of an off-season week at a high-end resort I was mentioning.  Yes, I could do that with the school calendar, but I could also do the Four Seasons in Scottsdale in the summer.  Great resorts at miserable times to be there.


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## Beefnot (Feb 18, 2017)

I have had some amazing trades since I have owned. Disney Aulani, Four Seasons Aviara, Marriott Ko Olina, others. I have seen a lot of decent inventory in summer over the years that could presumably have been picked up with an ongoing search and some that was more last minute. Last summer we were in Hawaii on a Hilton bulk banking we had secured via RCI some 16 months earlier. I love exchanging. I don't see me worried about buying where I want to go anytime soon.


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## VegasBella (Feb 18, 2017)

theo said:


> I *mostly* subscribe to the "buy where you want to go" idea, but my own personal viewpoint might be better described as "buy where you would at least be *willing* to go, without reluctance, (...and can always afford to travel to), if exchanging or renting sometimes just doesn't work out".



I agree with that. 

But I suppose you could add on a few exceptions. Maybe ... buy where you would at least be willing to go, without reluctance, (...and can always afford to travel to), if exchanging or renting sometimes just doesn't work out and/or accept that there may be years here and there that you don't use your timeshare if/when things don't work out until you can sell or give it away. 

In other words, I could imagine owning something that I might never want to use if it was a good gamble that I would get significant value out of it. That is, when you do your homework and input the values into a spreadsheet to determine a timeshare's worth, factor in not just the cost of MF and inflation and exchanges etc. but also factor in the cost of disposing of the timeshare. (And costs are not just financial, but also time and energy).

That said, all four of our ownerships fall into "buy where you want to go."


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## klpca (Feb 18, 2017)

We also receive great value with exchanging - my most recent exchange is into Northstar in August 2018 - I was able to get two units for the same week using an SDO 1 bedroom for each trade. Northstar is not on the lake but we are hiker/bikers, so access to the trails is our top priority. We are having a mini family reunion for my husband's birthday. I agree that planning way ahead or being able to travel last minute increases the likelihood of successful exchanging. Also being flexible on location.

That said, I try to hold good exchangers in drive-to areas on the outside chance that we stop exchanging in the future, and I also try to hold units that are easy to re-sell.


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## Saintsfanfl (Feb 18, 2017)

I prefer to exchange even if I own there because of the flexibility of E-plus. The final exchanges we stick with are always cheaper than the maintenance fees. It obviously only works 100% of the time for shoulder season. When I find a place and time I really like I try and buy it if exchanging is not high %.


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## melissy123 (Feb 18, 2017)

Wait, Cindy, you believe there's no longer a Starwood, now Vistana, preference, in II?  Has anyone tested that?


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## rickandcindy23 (Feb 18, 2017)

We saw some Westin Ka'anapali studios a while back, and none was in preference, so they were grabbed up.  I also see Vistana PGA and Beach with my Marriott, just the same as I could see them with my SBP.  I think the preference for Vistana owners is over.

This also means ongoing search preference won't be in play either.  So enter searches with your cheapest weeks, because I think the nicer resorts are now up for grabs with decent traders.


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## Chrispee (Feb 18, 2017)

VSE (Starwood) studio units have quite often been released in II without holding preference.  The 1br+ (should note that I haven't seen a 2 bedroom in ages) units still come out under preference.


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## BJRSanDiego (Feb 18, 2017)

rickandcindy23 said:


> I exchanged into a week at Hyatt Beach House in Key West with Foxrun, and that exchange was under $900 total with MF's and exchange.
> 
> Today I grabbed a week in San Francisco at The Donatello, a week that would cost me about $1,200 in Shell fees to book.  I used my Marriott's Willow Ridge plat studio, so I figure my cost at about $500 with exchange fee.
> 
> ...



Slightly off topic - - I see that you are going to Vino Bello in Feb.  If you have not already gone, consider going to the timeshare presentation.  We went and got a free gourmet breakfast and a "passport" for two for wine tastings at ten different Napa wineries.  Some were good and a few were exceptional.  It seems like the "going rate" for wine tastings is in the neighborhood of $25-35 a person, so the value of the passport was high.  The presentation was low key/low pressure and we were out of there in about an hour and a quarter.


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## SmithOp (Feb 18, 2017)

I just noticed this in my II messages, didn't know the fee went up?

Exchange Fee Update

Effective February 15, 2017, the new Internal Exchange fee for properly submitted exchange requests has been reduced to $139 for Vistana Signature Experiences owners.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## rickandcindy23 (Feb 18, 2017)

> But that's an example of an off-season week at a high-end resort I was mentioning. Yes, I could do that with the school calendar, but I could also do the Four Seasons in Scottsdale in the summer. Great resorts at miserable times to be there.



Orlando is more miserable, in my opinion, yet Orlando is crowd level 10 most of the summer.  I don't get that.  Being by the ocean is always better than a Disney park in July.


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## dioxide45 (Feb 18, 2017)

SmithOp said:


> I just noticed this in my II messages, didn't know the fee went up?
> 
> Exchange Fee Update
> 
> ...


I thought it was $134 in the past. Though I don't know, I have never tried exchanging our Vistana weeks in II.


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## Saintsfanfl (Feb 18, 2017)

K2Quick said:


> But that's an example of an off-season week at a high-end resort I was mentioning.  Yes, I could do that with the school calendar, but I could also do the Four Seasons in Scottsdale in the summer.  Great resorts at miserable times to be there.



Did you just compare a 90 degree Key West where you can jump in the water with a 105 degree AZ where you can jump in the sand? Sorry, not the same thing. Some areas don't truly have an off season and South Florida is one of those places. Less desirable than March? Perhaps. But it's not low demand by any means.


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## amycurl (Feb 19, 2017)

I often see two-bedroom Vistana weeks in II--usually Lagunamar, Orlando, and SBP, but still. We snagged a two-bedroom in Orlando over winter break two years ago, and enjoyed it, but found the units smaller and slightly less functional that the Marriott two-bedrooms we usually trade for.


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## HeidingOut (Feb 19, 2017)

Newbie question....as I'm considering buying at Lagunamar in a Platinum 1BR. I think I understand the whole mandatory vs. voluntary resort thing. But, still think we would prefer to own a week where we would want to stay at. We think the upfront costs of this purchase would be something we could live with, I'm wondering about exchanging into II. How well would a 1 bedroom platinum week exchange for at Lagunamar? And, what could I expect to get if we decided not to go to Cancun one year?

Hoping you guys can help. But, if this is the wrong place for this discussion, direct me where I need to be. Don't want to hijack the thread.

Thanks!


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## dioxide45 (Feb 19, 2017)

HeidingOut said:


> Newbie question....as I'm considering buying at Lagunamar in a Platinum 1BR. I think I understand the whole mandatory vs. voluntary resort thing. But, still think we would prefer to own a week where we would want to stay at. We think the upfront costs of this purchase would be something we could live with, I'm wondering about exchanging into II. How well would a 1 bedroom platinum week exchange for at Lagunamar? And, what could I expect to get if we decided not to go to Cancun one year?
> 
> Hoping you guys can help. But, if this is the wrong place for this discussion, direct me where I need to be. Don't want to hijack the thread.
> 
> Thanks!


As long as your heart isn't set on exchanging in to other Vistana properties, I think it would trade well. It will still trade in to other Vistana properties with the Vistana preference. It is just that there haven't been nearly as many Vistana deposits the last few years. Years ago, Vistana deposits in II were plentiful, but they have dropped off quite a bit. There are also very few 2BR Vistana deposits any more. If you need 2BR units, you would probably have to look at trading in to non Vistana properties.


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## tschwa2 (Feb 19, 2017)

I think a platinum week 1 br week would trade about as good as any one bedroom would in II.  My problem with II isn't about finding something with a high trading power, its about finding something you want that is deposited into II.  If you deposit and set up an ongoing request for a 1 br unit 12-18 months in advance you would be near the top of the list excepting for Marriott deposits that have Marriott priority.  Vistana and Marriott have way cut down on their premier advanced bulk deposits.  If you want to go somewhere that doesn't get any deposits when you want to go it doesn't matter how strong of a deposit you have.


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## rickandcindy23 (Feb 19, 2017)

K2Quick said:


> But that's an example of an off-season week at a high-end resort I was mentioning.  Yes, I could do that with the school calendar, but I could also do the Four Seasons in Scottsdale in the summer.  Great resorts at miserable times to be there.



I would take either Key West or Phoenix in summer.  Phoenix is similar to Denver.  Believe it or not, our temperatures in Denver are high 90's and low 100's quite often.  Although Phoenix is warmer than Denver, I can take the dry heat.  We went to Sedona last summer, early July, and had cooler weather than their usual averages most of the week.  I know Sedona is higher in altitude, so a bit cooler, but that was the Hyatt in summer, and it was an awesome trade.   The average temperature was 90 degrees and it rained two days.  I would do that trip again, except I feel we saw everything.  We drove through the desert and mountains to/from Colorado, and the heat didn't bother us at our various stops.



Saintsfanfl said:


> Did you just compare a 90 degree Key West where you can jump in the water with a 105 degree AZ where you can jump in the sand? Sorry, not the same thing. Some areas don't truly have an off season and South Florida is one of those places. Less desirable than March? Perhaps. But it's not low demand by any means.



But the two are similar in some ways.  With AC in the car and the accommodations, AC everywhere you go, and the pool, both are acceptable climates for summer.  Rick wants to go to Phoenix this summer.


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## SmithOp (Feb 19, 2017)

dioxide45 said:


> I thought it was $134 in the past. Though I don't know, I have never tried exchanging our Vistana weeks in II.



It was $139 when I became a member, $169 for exchange out of VSE.  Exchange fees went up to $179 last year, now up to $189.  They seem to have eliminated the online discount because it was $179 online, $189 call in.  VSE probably went up to $149 (standard $30 discount staying in VSE).  It took some digging to find the fee sheets, they are in the Discussion group section under Document Library.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## melissy123 (Feb 19, 2017)

Off topic, but this brings up an unresolved issue because I've seen answers both ways. Does the amount of time you have a search going in II give you any priority? Say with trading power and size of unit being equal?


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## tschwa2 (Feb 19, 2017)

With everything else equal priority should go to the person who had the OGS started first.  It is rare that everything else would be equal so it would be easy to get bumped by someone with more trading power who started the search later.


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## rickandcindy23 (Feb 19, 2017)

tschwa2 said:


> With everything else equal priority should go to the person who had the OGS started first.  It is rare that everything else would be equal so it would be easy to get bumped by someone with more trading power who started the search later.



For kicks, I entered an ongoing search for Maui over summer with my Foxrun spring week.  I got a 2 bedroom Marriott Maui Ocean Club, not the one with the kitchens, but a great exchange nonetheless.  This was last summer.  I gave it back because we went to Hono Koa in August.


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## RuloJones (Feb 19, 2017)

This is to tschwa2,  Are you a owner at eather/all  Grand Crowne, Carriage Place, or Townhouses in Branson MO??


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## tschwa2 (Feb 19, 2017)

RuloJones said:


> This is to tschwa2,  Are you a owner at eather/all  Grand Crowne, Carriage Place, or Townhouses in Branson MO??


I own points with Capital Resorts and can book those through the club trust.


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## heathpack (Feb 20, 2017)

We are just back from a trip to Hyatt Highlands Inn in Carmel, CA.  Two units- the one I booked using my Hyatt was way more expensive than the one I exchanged into via II using my SBP.

And while we were there, I was searching II for a summer Tahoe week.  Managed to trade in to Welk Northstar (formerly Hyatt Northstar).  Even paying the upgrade fee for the 2BR unit, it was a pretty reasonable week- around $1100, including eplus.

Whoops edited to add: it looks like the total cost for this week is actually around $900.


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## tjk144 (Feb 20, 2017)

Could anyone share their knowledge of units that have reasonable MF and good trading power in RCI.


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## rickandcindy23 (Mar 19, 2017)

tjk144 said:


> Could anyone share their knowledge of units that have reasonable MF and good trading power in RCI.


Where do you want to go?  Where would you like to stay sometimes for a home resort.  That is important.  Don't buy somewhere just for trading power.  Buy where you can go sometimes and enjoy your home resort.  

It's tough to say with RCI.  I like owning at Presidential Villas at Plantation Resort, Surfside Beach, CA, but the fees go up every year, and trading power goes down every year.


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## Marathoner (Mar 19, 2017)

dioxide45 said:


> Years ago, Vistana deposits in II were plentiful, but they have dropped off quite a bit. There are also very few 2BR Vistana deposits any more.


A number of people frequently write something along these lines.  With the implication that the number of deposits is being reduced by Vistana (or Marriot, etc).  I would submit that if there are less deposits available in II, then it is because there are less owners depositing their weeks in II.  Vistana is obligated to deposit the same number of units that owners are trading into II, so the reduction in deposits is driven by owners, not by the developer.


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## dioxide45 (Mar 19, 2017)

Marathoner said:


> A number of people frequently write something along these lines.  With the implication that the number of deposits is being reduced by Vistana (or Marriot, etc).  I would submit that if there are less deposits available in II, then it is because there are less owners depositing their weeks in II.  Vistana is obligated to deposit the same number of units that owners are trading into II, so the reduction in deposits is driven by owners, not by the developer.


Not really sure if that is the case or not. We will never really know. Developers years ago had an abundance of unsold inventory. In some cases so much that they really didn't have an outlet for it except to bulk bank it in to II. Big bulks don't really come from owner deposits. They came from unsold inventory. Most of the big companies have slimmed down and the unsold inventory simply isn't there any more. They feed the sales machine as they go and now with an improved economy they rent out what unsold inventory they have.


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