# How does Worldmark work in II?



## momeason (Jan 27, 2012)

I tried going to the Worldmark owners forum but it was confusing. I definitely understand that there is a lot of frustration with Wyndham with one major issue being dilution of points. Worldmark credits actually sell for real cash though so I want to know more about how they work.
I have seen comments that they are strong traders in II. Could someone post a credit chart for II deposits. Also are there additional housekeeping fees?
I own Wyndham points and there are filters preventing me from getting lots of high end resorts in an ongoing search. Does Worldmark pull the high- end resorts like Marriott and Westin? With my points I get a lot of excess Marriott inventory thru Flexchange and XYZ, but cannot get matched with Marriott in an ongoing search.

I live in NC so I would use Worldmark mainly for trading if I purchased. The upfront price seems high, but the maintenance fees seem lower than many Wyndhams. With Wyndham running the system, I am afraid they will take away the ability to buy credits on the open market. They stopped the selling of Wyndham points a few years ago. Worldmark is owned by the owners but the owners do not seem to have control right now.

I want to understand why Worldmark sells for so much. If it was still being managed by the owners, I see its value. I guess I am leary since Wyndham seems to have too much control. 

I am interested in a better trader with low maintenance fees but I do not understand Worldmark. We are flexible in our travel plans. Considering buying more Wyndham points but having trouble committing. I am not crazy, I do own a Wyndham resort that trades in II. Any future purchases will also trade in II.


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## slum808 (Jan 27, 2012)

momeason said:


> I tried going to the Worldmark owners forum but it was confusing. I definitely understand that there is a lot of frustration with Wyndham with one major issue being dilution of points. Worldmark credits actually sell for real cash though so I want to know more about how they work.
> I have seen comments that they are strong traders in II. Could someone post a credit chart for II deposits. Also are there additional housekeeping fees?
> I own Wyndham points and there are filters preventing me from getting lots of high end resorts in an ongoing search. Does Worldmark pull the high- end resorts like Marriott and Westin? With my points I get a lot of excess Marriott inventory thru Flexchange and XYZ, but cannot get matched with Marriott in an ongoing search.
> 
> ...




You've got a lot of questions, I'll try and answer some of the basic ones. I'm still waiting on WM to complete my transfer so I can set up my II and RCI accounts. WMowners has great info, but its not organized at all. I've linked the point chart below and a post from another Tugger last week. 

If marriott trades are what you're looking for, you might just have to buy a Marriott. You problem with not getting a match with Wyndham is most likely actually a problem with Mariott. II gives a 26 day preference to Mariott owners before its released to anyone else, including WM. So most of the good deposits go to other Mariott owners. Every one else only sees leftovers. In flexchange the preference period is reduced to as little as 3 days, so you will see some units especially studios break through the preference period. 

Marriott's introduction of the DC program has also changed the game. Marriott owners have speculated that Marriott is holding on to units unit they are sure that point owners will not want them. So units that used to get released to II in bulk deposits are now only being deposited in flexchange. Sometimes really late in flexchange. 

Westins also have a preference period for internal trades, but I'm not sure how long it is. I highly doubt you could get a westin in Hawaii, but maybe some of the inland resorts off peak time. Best is to search the sightings board on WMowners. That will give you an idea of whats been seen with WM and for what time periods. 

As far as value for WM points go, its relative. Points are selling for about $.30/pt, less if you get lucky on Ebay. You can rent a point for $0.06/pt which is basically mf cost, so you're looking at 5x mf to purchase. If you can get a 10k for $3000 and that gets you a 2-bed week in red season, is that high? I own Disney, which even on resale a week would cost me $30k. So again its relative.

Again, if you want to consistantly get into Marriotts you should buy a Marriott, you can actually get a good trader for less than WM. Lots of people like Willow ridge in Branson, or I've been looking at 3-BDs in Grande Vista as well. If you bought a 10k pt WM to trade into a 2-bd once a year, your MF would be $600 plus II fee. If you buy a GV 3-Bd EOY your yearly mf would be $600, and you could lock it off into a 2-bd and 1-bd deposit. These are much more likely to pull a good Marriott trade. You can pick up a gold EOY for less than the $3000k you'd spend on the WM. 

You can also pick up a cheap Westin like SDO to trade as well, but I have less experience with Westin.

Hope this helped answer some of the questions.
Link to credit chart http://www.wmowners.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=10111

Some basic info on trading in II with WM http://tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=163092


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## jdunn1 (Jan 27, 2012)

I’ll just chime in quickly to suggest you go to www.wmowners.com for help with this.  Since I own both Marriott and WorldMark, I understand you question about using WM points in II to trade.  If you want prime Marriott weeks (summer Hilton Head or Myrtle Beach, winter in the Caribbean, summer or winter in Hawaii, ski weeks, etc…) you will NEVER get a match with WM via II for anything outside of flex, and even then, it is very iffy.  I purchased my WM points hoping to trade for everything I just mentioned and after owning for nearly 2 years, I can tell you from experience I have never received a match in II with my WM points.  I can see everything (outside of brand preference) in II with my WM points, but I have never been able to get a match on an on-going request.  Using WM points in RCI (i.e. for DVC resorts or Hilton or Wyndham) will net you stellar trades.  Just about anything you want in RCI (outside of 3 bedroom DVC units) is yours with WM.  You might have to wait a couple months for your ongoing search to get filled but 9 out of 10 times, you should get exactly what you want in RCI.  II is wonderful to WM owners for flex trades and for getting all the name resorts (Marriott, Westin, Starwood, Four Seasons, etc…) during shoulder times.  If you want the Carolinas in the fall or winter, or the mountains in the summer or Florida in the summer, you will be tickled pink with WM’s cheap access to II inventory.  If you want anything during peak travel times, you will be disappointed 9.5 times out of 10 with WM in II.  

WM points have value (thought I definitely wouldn’t say they are expensive) because no matter what trade company a resort brand trades with (RCI or II), WM points can get you into that brand.  Also, WM dues are cheaper than most other timeshares.  A huge plus with WM is that you can buy a small contract (I only own 5k points) and have yearly dues of $350 or so rent as many extra credits as you need for the same price as if you owned them.  For example, owning 10k points would cost you about $600 a year in dues.  At any point, you can rent 10k points from another owner for between $500 - $650, depending on a number of factors, like expiration date of the points, housekeeping token, etc…

I absolutely LOVE my WM points.  I want a week in a 2 bedroom DVC unit for Christmas week, it costs me $600 plus trade fees to II.  I want a 2 bedroom 4th of July week at Wyndham’s Ocean Boulevard, it costs me $600 plus trade fees, I want a 2 bedroom Aruba Surf Watch week at any time in the year, it cost me $600 plus trade fees.  The thing is, because of the various preference periods given in II, I can never get a prime Marriott week, only off-season weeks, or I need to wait for flex.  A flex exchange, no matter what size costs about $300 in dues and housekeeping fees for a WM owner, adding a lot of value to a WM ownership.

Lots to learn with WM but in short, DO NOT buy if you think WM will pull anything in II during prime season.  Be it Marriott or Starwood or Westin or Four Seasons, etc, WM will not work for you.  If you are happy with off season weeks at the nicest resorts, the WM will never cease to amaze you.  WM is the best there is in RCI, and that is where you will get those impossible trades.  If you want Marriott resorts, you MUST own a Marriott week.


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## LLW (Jan 27, 2012)

jdunn1 said:


> Lots to learn with WM but in short, *DO NOT buy if you think WM will pull anything in II during prime season*.  Be it Marriott or Starwood or Westin or Four Seasons, etc, WM will not work for you.  If you are happy with off season weeks at the nicest resorts, the WM will never cease to amaze you.  WM is the best there is in RCI, and that is where you will get those impossible trades.  If you want Marriott resorts, you MUST own a Marriott week.



Just to be fair:

WM seldom pulls Marriott or Starwood prime weeks, because of their 24-day preference periods. That is true of any timeshare in II, not because WM cannot pull Marriott or Starwood. Four Seasons Aviara does not deposit prime summer weeks (mid-July to mid-August), so nobody else can pull them in II either, except from last-minute cancellations.

Nobody else can, not just WM. Starwood can't access Marriott during Marriott's preference period, nor Marriott Starwood.

RCI does not have as many high-end resorts, and their internal preference periods, if any, are not as well documented/apparent as II's. That's why WM seems to be able to pull anything in RCI.

As the TUG adage goes, if you want to use the best weeks, buy that brand. And that is only fair. Many WM owners also own Marriott and Starwood, and DVC on RCI, just for that reason. There are Marriotts and Starwoods that, with the lock-off advantage, are good values to buy for trading. 

However, if your travel schedule is flexible and are not tied to the school schedules, WM can get you into Marriotts and Starwoods, and other high-end resorts, if you know how. And the information is right there on WMOwners. Begin by reading the stickies first, then the other posts.  

My schedule is very flexible, I am not tied to the school schedule, and I don't have a need for DVC, so WM is the _only_ timeshare I own, despite having access to all kinds of knowledge here on TUG. I am a very happy WM owner. I have exchanged into DVC Boardwalk, Four Seasons Aviara & Scottsdale, Marriott's Grand Chateau, Marbella Beach, Newport Coast, & Waiohai, and Westin Ka'anapali North and South, and Princeville, many of them multiple times.

As has been said, WM is very flexible. With flexibility comes complexity. But it is not difficult to learn if you are willing to spend the time. It is all right there on WMO, for anybody who wants it. Many newbies have learned and become excellent exchangers in less than a year, in addition to enjoying all 70 internal WM resorts. 

But if you haven't even read the stickies on WMO's Vacation Exchange Info forum, then there is a reason why you are confused with WM. Many seasoned WM owners, who don't read on WMO, are. That's why only a few % of WM owners exchange, giving rise to the great trade power that WM enjoys relative to its MF.

It's true Wyndham has control of WM right now (as DVC, Starwood and Marriott have control over their respective brands), but even with that, "Knowledge is power," and the less than 1% of WM owners who frequent and participate on WMO have the best. And by the way, many of them don't participate here.


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## momeason (Jan 27, 2012)

Thanks for all the info. Since I will not do a lot of internal exchanges in WM because I am on the East Coast, I think I will pass. It sounds like a great system if you live in the west. I don't think owning it for exchange in II will improve my trading power enough to make it worth the cost. I receive lots of Marriott exchanges that are off season now with my Wyndham points I already own. I think I will refrain from purchasing anything else right now. 
I do appreciate the help and honesty.


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## melschey (Jan 27, 2012)

LLW said:


> And by the way, many of them don't participate here.



In my Opinion Most don't participate here. This is really Wyndham Resorts board  and not a WM board. The two clubs operate under very different rules and it is really hard to cover both on the same board. I only come here ocasionally. For your answers go to WWW.wmowners.com.


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## jdunn1 (Jan 29, 2012)

Meant to say, LLW knows her stuff much better than I do so whatever she says, go with that.  I just wanted to make clear that you must really go to wmowners.com for the best info.  Like the poster before me said, this is a horrible place to get info on WM, but a very good place to get info for Wyndham.  The only exception might be if you have questions about OceanWalk, or about trading into any resort on the east coast via II or RCI with WM points.  WM owners, as a general rule, don't travel to the East coast, so any questions about using WM to trade out east are best asked on this board.

Also, I wanted to express just how hard it is to trade into any name brand timeshare during peak times with WM points.  Like LLW said, this is true of any brand (i.e. marriott owners can hardly ever snag prime starwood weeks), but I WM is no exception to this rule.  It is near impossible to get the best weeks Marriott or Starwood or Westin have to offer via II.  Now, getting prime HGVC or DVC or Wyndham weeks, is MUCH easier via RCI, so that is where the true trade power of WM points can be seen.

I love my WM points, but they are not a substitute for owning a Marriott week.  Far from it, in fact!


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## yumdrey (Jan 30, 2012)

LLW said:


> Just to be fair:
> 
> WM seldom pulls Marriott or Starwood prime weeks, because of their 24-day preference periods. That is true of any timeshare in II, not because WM cannot pull Marriott or Starwood. Four Seasons Aviara does not deposit prime summer weeks (mid-July to mid-August), so nobody else can pull them in II either, except from last-minute cancellations.



To add one more thing, Four Seasons owners have priority in II for Four Seasons deposits too. It is not consistent, but sure thing.
Prime FS weeks are picked up by FS owners as well, just like Marriott and Starwood prime weeks.


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