# Official 2023 Maintenance Fee Thread



## HitchHiker71 (Sep 28, 2022)

All ... Creating our official 2023 MF thread where TUGGERs can post about and discuss the "2023 HOA Maintenance Fees" ...

IF you want to see the Historical (year over year) Chart of HOA Maintenance Fees collected for the Resorts, CLICK HERE 

I will periodically check replies on this thread and update the linked spreadsheet where we're capturing MFs on an ongoing basis.  If you see that we're missing historical MF data in the linked spreadsheet for a particular resort and you've got the data in hand - feel free to post it in this thread and/or PM me and I'll get the chart updated with historical MF data as well.


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## HitchHiker71 (Sep 28, 2022)

For my part, I recently received the 2023 MF increase for National Harbor UDI - seeing a 1.4% YoY increase from $4.79/1000 to $4.86/1000 for Standard Points, and from $5.00/1000 to $5.03/1000 for Designated Points.  The low rate of increase this year is due primarily to a favorable tax ruling on appeal for a major tax increase settlement.  

Of particular note in the letter for those who may own at NH and/or stay there on a regular basis:



> As we enter into 2023, we are excited to begin the full renovation of all guestroom suites.  The renovation will begin in January and is projected to last until May 2023.  It will consist of completely new decor, appliances, carpet, dining room furniture, living room furniture, TVs, mattresses, etc.  We are looking forward to a new and improved resort for our owners."


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## lotus921v (Sep 29, 2022)

HitchHiker71 said:


> For my part, I recently received the 2023 MF increase for National Harbor UDI - seeing a 1.4% YoY increase from $4.79/1000 to $4.86/1000 for Standard Points, and from $5.00/1000 to $5.03/1000 for Designated Points.  The low rate of increase this year is due primarily to a favorable tax ruling on appeal for a major tax increase settlement.
> 
> Of particular note in the letter for those who may own at NH and/or stay there on a regular basis:



what are standard and designated points please?


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## Jan M. (Sep 29, 2022)

lotus921v said:


> what are standard and designated points please?



Designated points are Presidential Reserve points and the maintenance fees are higher for them. Standard points are CWS, Club Wyndham Select, points.


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## lotus921v (Sep 29, 2022)

Jan M. said:


> Designated points are Presidential Reserve points and the maintenance fees are higher for them. Standard points are CWS, Club Wyndham Select, points.


Can you only book presidential reserve suites with designated points?  Or can you use regular points to book them?


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## scootr5 (Sep 30, 2022)

lotus921v said:


> Can you only book presidential reserve suites with designated points?  Or can you use regular points to book them?



You can use regular points to book them if they are available (Wyndham has the right to hold presidential Reserve units back for PR owners).


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## Jan M. (Sep 30, 2022)

lotus921v said:


> Can you only book presidential reserve suites with designated points?  Or can you use regular points to book them?



Within the 10 month Standard Reservation window and 3 month Express window you can book anything that's available, Presidential Reserve inventory, Margaritaville inventory and the regular inventory with PR points, CWS points or CWA (Club Wyndham Access) points. During the ARP window, Advance Reservation Priority, you can only book PR units with your PR points. If you want to be able to book regular units during the ARP window you must own some CWS or CWA points to be able to do that.


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## WyndhamBarter (Sep 30, 2022)

lotus921v said:


> Can you only book presidential reserve suites with designated points?  Or can you use regular points to book them?



So, theoretically, PR owners have exclusive access to "up to 75%" of PR Suites all the way until
1 month before checkin.  As PR owners, I *think* we've seen this work in our favor, but without
access to the underlying inventory numbers you never know.  Recently it actually sort of worked
against us - we were told at Canterbury that our request for a favorite 1BR Presidential room was
not honored because our reservation was for Presidential Reserve inventory - and they were being
more strict these days in keeping the distinction.

Here's the info from the Wyndham website:

https://clubwyndham.wyndhamdestinat...e/resources/club-wyndham-presidential-reserve


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## scootr5 (Oct 7, 2022)

From the annual meeting paperwork I received yesterday,

Smoky Mountains (Governors Crossing 1)
2023 Maintenance fees: $4.29
Reserve fund: $1.80
Property tax: $0.22
Total HOA: $6.31
Increase of 5.2%


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## Baggi (Oct 8, 2022)

I see this for 2022 Cypress Palms maintenance fee:


Cypress Palms
2022 Maintenance Fees $4.75
Reserve Fund $1.70
Property Tax $0.71
Total $7.16 


Paperwork I got today says Maintenance Fee is $6.77 for 2023.

It went up over $2? Am I reading this right?


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## paxsarah (Oct 8, 2022)

Baggi said:


> I see this for 2022 Cypress Palms maintenance fee:
> 
> 
> Cypress Palms
> ...


Usually when we quote maintenance fees it includes reserve fund and property tax - so $6.77 vs $7.16, or a 5.8% increase. EDIT: or decrease? Regardless, usually the total amount (not including program fee) is considered the MF.


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## Baggi (Oct 8, 2022)

paxsarah said:


> Usually when we quote maintenance fees it includes reserve fund and property tax - so $6.77 vs $7.16, or a 5.8% increase. EDIT: or decrease? Regardless, usually the total amount (not including program fee) is considered the MF.




I get that. But the paperwork I got today says the Maintenance fee is $6.77. The 2022 maintenance fee was $4.75.

I'm calling Wyndham now to see if there's something I'm not understanding. I'm worried the "maintenance fee" is only a part of the total assessment and the $6.77 in the paperwork is only a part of the total assessment.


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## paxsarah (Oct 8, 2022)

Baggi said:


> I get that. But the paperwork I got today says the Maintenance fee is $6.77. The 2022 maintenance fee was $4.75.
> 
> I'm calling Wyndham now to see if there's something I'm not understanding. I'm worried the "maintenance fee" is only a part of the total assessment and the $6.77 in the paperwork is only a part of the total assessment.


The 2022 maintenance fee was $7.16.


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## paxsarah (Oct 8, 2022)

If they didn’t break out the tax and reserve fund when quoting you $6.77, then $6.77 is the total. We call it “maintenance fee” and includes everything except program fee.


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## Baggi (Oct 8, 2022)

paxsarah said:


> The 2022 maintenance fee was $7.16.



Well, I'm just quoting what I see here on this forum from 2022. According to what I found in the 2022 thread


Cypress Palms
2022 Maintenance Fees $4.75
Reserve Fund $1.70
Property Tax $0.71
Total $7.16 

So, the total assessment is $7.16 and the maintenance fee was $4.75.

I hope you're right and my maintenance fee went down. I should have an answer soon enough as I'm on hold right now.


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## paxsarah (Oct 8, 2022)

The only time we see/use that breakdown is when the annual assessment is sent out. Otherwise, the convention when we say “maintenance fee” is it includes all that. Nobody in normal conversation quotes maintenance fees that don’t include property tax and reserve.


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## WyndhamBarter (Oct 9, 2022)

Baggi said:


> I should have an answer soon enough



And?


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## GRapuser (Oct 9, 2022)

Glacier Canyon (Standard Points)
2023 Maintenance Fees: $5.67
Reserves: $1.47
Property Tax: $0.71
Total HOA: $7.84
Increase of 6.5%

On top of a pretty high fee to begin with.


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## scootr5 (Oct 11, 2022)

Taken from facebook source (photo of statement)
Panama City - Standard
2023 Maintenance fees: $4.42
Reserve fund: $.72
Association Revenues: ($0.28)
Total HOA: $4.85 (Note, the math is Wyndham's - I come up with $4.86)
Increase of 2.9%

Panama City - Designated
2023 Maintenance fees: $4.60
Reserve fund: $.61
Association Revenues: ($0.28)
Total HOA: $4.93


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## paxsarah (Oct 11, 2022)

scootr5 said:


> Total HOA: $4.85 (Note, the math is Wyndham's - I come up with $4.86)


Aha! Clearly the extra penny they've been charging me on my MFs since the switch to Paymentus is a subsidy for the PCB owners!


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## troy12n (Oct 11, 2022)

Maybe some of those extra MF at PCB will go to replace the elevators there. They are a *constant* problem...


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## Baggi (Oct 11, 2022)

WyndhamBarter said:


> And?



They said they wouldn't have the information until the end of November.


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## acatmeowz (Oct 29, 2022)

2023 Canterbury - Standard
Operating Fees: $2.75
Reserve Fund: $0.78
Property Tax: $0.41
Total HOA: $3.94— up from $3.78 or 4.2%

2023 Canterbury - Designated
Operating Fees: $2.83
Reserve Fund: $1.03
Property Tax: $0.41
Total HOA: $4.28— up from $4.10 or 4.4%


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## scootr5 (Nov 24, 2022)

chapjim said:


> Sounds more like something for a special assessment.  If it's a one off thing, MF should go back down.  Wanna bet?



And the answer was no:

Avenue Plaza, New Orleans, LA
1 bedroom - $912.37
Studio - $707.68

4.6% increase from last year.


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## TheHolleys87 (Nov 24, 2022)

Just got the dues statement for Kona Coast from my dad, who paid them.  I'm extremely grateful to him for that, since he doesn't use them anymore, so in essence they're mine to use!

The 2023 Maintenance Fees for KCR are:
One bedroom - $1,162.71
Two bedroom - $1,494.18

I have the operating budget sent with the statement, if that's wanted.


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## Melder (Nov 30, 2022)

I noticed a document under Bill History dated Jan 1, 1900 in the Customer Portal.  It contains my 2023 Assessment Summary.  It states, "This is not a bill" and only contains total values.  When I divide by the number of points owned, it appears the Program Fee has increased from $0.68 to $0.70.

*Wyndham Grand Desert *(Tower 1&2)
2023 Maintenance fees: $4.10
Reserve fund: $1.14
Property tax: $0.17
Total HOA: $5.41

Increase of 5.5% (Grand Desert hasn't seen an increase this big since 2008)


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## weemoeway (Nov 30, 2022)

Melder said:


> When I divide by the number of points owned, it appears the Program Fee has increased from $0.68 to $0.70.


Sounds about right. If I am looking at my info properly, since 2018, it has gone up by two cents each year, except for the four cents in 2020.


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## scootr5 (Dec 1, 2022)

South Shore
2023 Maintenance fees: $3.56
Reserve fund: $.78
Property tax: $0.15
Total HOA: $4.49
Increase of 0.01%


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## scootr5 (Dec 1, 2022)

Melder said:


> I noticed a document under Bill History dated Jan 1, 1900 in the Customer Portal.  It contains my 2023 Assessment Summary.  It states, "This is not a bill" and only contains total values.  When I divide by the number of points owned, it appears the Program Fee has increased from $0.68 to $0.70.



Interestingly, mine shows the program fee remaining at $0.68. Edited to add, the word "remaining" was an error - it's a .02 cent increase for this year (hopefully they fully utilize it to continue providing the excellent we experience for us to use).


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## Melder (Dec 1, 2022)

scootr5 said:


> Interestingly, mine shows the program fee remaining at $0.68.


That's odd.


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## weemoeway (Dec 1, 2022)

They don't have the spot on the bottom left of the Assessment that shows the actual Program Fee Rate anymore?


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## paxsarah (Dec 1, 2022)

*Ocean Boulevard III*
2023 Maintenance fees: $4.33
Reserve fund: $1.19
Property tax: $0.25
Total HOA: $5.77
Increase of 6.9%

*Ocean Boulevard (I, I think - the phase/tower isn't labeled)*
2023 Maintenance fees: $5.37
Reserve fund: $1.60
Property tax: $0.25
Total HOA: $7.22
Increase of 7%


*Flagstaff F/W*
2023 Maintenance fees: $841.08
Reserve fund: $180.00
Property tax: $27.24
Total HOA: $1048.32
Increase of 14%
(For my 182k point contract, the MF/k comes out to $5.76)

I also own Grand Desert, same as in a previous post. My Program Fee comes to $0.68 for resale, an increase from $0.66.

The second Ocean Boulevard I was already planning to give away (probably CE) as soon as my newest contract hits my account. The Flagstaff increase is a big oof. It's certainly not the low-MF gem it was a couple of years ago after 2 years of double-digit increases.


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## markb53 (Dec 1, 2022)

*Panama City Beach*
2023 Maintenance Fee 4.13
Reserve Fund.                .16
Property Tax.                  .15
Total HOA Fee.              5.00
Increase 6.2%

*Club Wyndham Access*
2023 Maintenance Fee  7.06
Reserve Fund.                 .16
Total HOA Fee.               7.22
Increase 4.2%

My calculation of the program fee for retail purchase (with Plus Partners) $.70/k

Pretty happy with the relatively small increase in CWA my average point cost went from 6.80/k to 7.11/k  including the program fee for an average increase of 4.6% including the increase in the program fee.


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## paxsarah (Dec 1, 2022)

weemoeway said:


> They don't have the spot on the bottom left of the Assessment that shows the actual Program Fee Rate anymore?


It's not exactly the same as previous assessments. I hope they actually mail one that's the same as before, but this is sort of in Paymentus format made to look similar (but with far less detail) than the usual assessment letters.


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## rickandcindy23 (Dec 1, 2022)

I love that Wyndham doesn't increase fees by 10-25% like other management companies.  There are some great things to love about Wyndham.  

Did you get your annual fee statements in the mail?  I haven't gotten mine, I don't think.  I found 2022's yesterday by chance.


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## cbyrne1174 (Dec 1, 2022)

Royal Garden: $5.61
Towers on the Grove: $5.33
Grand Desert 1 and 2: $5.41
Grand Desert 3: $5.51
Smoky Mountains Gov Crossing II: $5.95


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## scootr5 (Dec 1, 2022)

Melder said:


> That's odd.  View attachment 69434View attachment 69435



Disregard my error please


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## paxsarah (Dec 1, 2022)

scootr5 said:


> View attachment 69462


$.68 resale, $.70 PlusPartners?


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## scootr5 (Dec 2, 2022)

paxsarah said:


> $.68 resale, $.70 PlusPartners?


That's correct, too much cold medicine this week for me. It was $.66 and $.68 for 2022 (perhaps @HitchHiker71 can add that to the spreadsheet as 2022 seems to be missing).


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## paxsarah (Dec 6, 2022)

paxsarah said:


> It's not exactly the same as previous assessments. *I hope they actually mail one that's the same as before*, but this is sort of in Paymentus format made to look similar (but with far less detail) than the usual assessment letters.


Welp, no. The mailed version is the same as the Paymentus version, meaning you have to do your own math to get the MF rate on each property. It does have the second page that lists the program fee and other related info.

2023 program fees:
PlusPartners: $.70/k with a minimum of $195
non-PlusPartners: $.68/k with a minimum of $175
PR: $.78/k for the first million, then $.70/k

(Break-even on the minimum program fee is 279k for PP, 258k for non-PP.)


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## weemoeway (Dec 7, 2022)

paxsarah said:


> It's not exactly the same as previous assessments. I hope they actually mail one that's the same as before, but this is sort of in Paymentus format made to look similar (but with far less detail) than the usual assessment letters.


Mine finally showed up online. The new format is annoying. Biggest annoyance is there are rounding issues. For instance, in order for my figures to match the $2.75, $0.78, $0.41 found in the Canterbury budget for Operating Fee, Reserves, Property Taxes, I actually have to use $2.74986, $0.78, $0.40986. But, I won't trust the budget figures necessarily, as it had $2.63 for operating fees last year, but the assessment showed $2.64.

Also the Program fee doesn't show the PIC vs UDI breakdown anymore, only the total. I ultimately had to use $0.69996 as my Program Fee rate for the total to match.


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## lotus921v (Dec 8, 2022)

Shearwater went up 7.5%


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## Timeshare Von (Dec 9, 2022)

I just received our 2023 statement from Wyndham for our 77k points at Westwinds in Myrtle Beach.

MF $489.00
Reserve Fund $188.64
Property Taxes $31.56
Program Fee $174.97
Grand Total $884.17 (or $73.68/month via direct ACH payment)


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## rickandcindy23 (Dec 9, 2022)

lotus921v said:


> Shearwater went up 7.5%


That's a big increase.  I am glad I trade into that one.


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## markb53 (Dec 9, 2022)

Timeshare Von said:


> I just received our 2023 statement from Wyndham for our 77k points at Westwinds in Myrtle Beach.
> 
> MF $489.00
> Reserve Fund $188.64
> ...


So It looks like that is a MF of $9.21/k + the program fee.


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## ausman (Dec 9, 2022)

markb53 said:


> So It looks like that is a MF of $9.21/k + the program fee.


No, you really can not say that. Not everything in Wyndham can be that absolute. Westwinds consists of 1BR and 2BR units that are converted to Wyndham points.

You can look at the points charts for Westwinds and see that 77k points is a 2BR in Quite time. The MF for that unit is $884.17 as posted by Timeshare Von and that 2br unit in Prime time is worth 175K which is $5.05/K. Depending on what week number was converted to WYN and the points granted will give the MF per K but all owners of a two bedroom will be paying $884.17 in MF's.

We, collectively, have lost knowledge when owners of converted weeks don't report the unit size and points granted when reporting MF's. the last comprehensive listing for converted weeks MF's date to 2017.


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## paxsarah (Dec 9, 2022)

ausman said:


> No, you really can not say that. Not everything in Wyndham can be that absolute. Westwinds consists of 1BR and 2BR units that are converted to Wyndham points.
> 
> You can look at the points charts for Westwinds and see that 77k points is a 2BR in Quite time. The MF for that unit is $884.17 as posted by Timeshare Von and that 2br unit in Prime time is worth 175K which is $5.05/K. Depending on what week number was converted to WYN and the points granted will give the MF per K but all owners of a two bedroom will be paying $884.17 in MF's.
> 
> We, collectively, have lost knowledge when owners of converted weeks don't report the unit size and points granted when reporting MF's. the last comprehensive listing for converted weeks MF's date to 2017.


That was the first thing I thought, but looking at the historic MF spreadsheet gives a 2BR in 2017 (the last year it was updated for Westwinds) as $1004.74 - so it seems very strange to me that a 2BR six years later would have decreased to $884.17. Then I was wondering if maybe the 77k was instead based on a 154k biennial (which would equal a 2BR in high season), which would be a steep increase - the equivalent of going from $1004 to $1768 in six years (around a 12% increase annually), which also seems unusual. And then I wondered if Westwinds had some UDI contracts that I wasn't aware of. But regardless, my takeaway is that the MFs at Westwinds are probably not good and to avoid them if I'm looking at resales.


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## paxsarah (Dec 9, 2022)

paxsarah said:


> That was the first thing I thought, but looking at the historic MF spreadsheet gives a 2BR in 2017 (the last year it was updated for Westwinds) as $1004.74 - so it seems very strange to me that a 2BR six years later would have decreased to $884.17. Then I was wondering if maybe the 77k was instead based on a 154k biennial (which would equal a 2BR in high season), which would be a steep increase - the equivalent of going from $1004 to $1768 in six years (around a 12% increase annually), which also seems unusual. And then I wondered if Westwinds had some UDI contracts that I wasn't aware of. But regardless, my takeaway is that the MFs at Westwinds are probably not good and to avoid them if I'm looking at resales.


Oops, I was taking that $884.17 and not backing out the program fee. Backing out the program fee I've got $709, or for a 154k equivalent it would be $1418, and the annual increase from what's on the MF spreadsheet would be a 6.9% annual increase which is much more plausible.

My conclusion (Westwinds not a good choice as a resale target due to questionable MFs) remains the same, at least for my own purposes.


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## paxsarah (Dec 9, 2022)

paxsarah said:


> And then I wondered if Westwinds had some UDI contracts that I wasn't aware of.


A little more searching and that appears to be the likely answer: https://tugbbs.com/forums/threads/using-2013-and-2014-points.196247/page-2#post-1504277


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## markb53 (Dec 10, 2022)

markb53 said:


> *Panama City Beach*
> 2023 Maintenance Fee 4.13
> Reserve Fund.                .16
> Property Tax.                  .15
> ...


Discovered I entered the incorrect amount for the reserve fund for Panama City Beach. It should be .72 the $5.00 total is correct.


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## rickandcindy23 (Dec 10, 2022)

Is Wyndham going to send out the statements this year with everything owned listed in one easy spot?  I cannot really use the paymentus portal at all.  It's been a disaster for me.


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## lotus921v (Dec 10, 2022)

weemoeway said:


> Mine finally showed up online. The new format is annoying. Biggest annoyance is there are rounding issues. For instance, in order for my figures to match the $2.75, $0.78, $0.41 found in the Canterbury budget for Operating Fee, Reserves, Property Taxes, I actually have to use $2.74986, $0.78, $0.40986. But, I won't trust the budget figures necessarily, as it had $2.63 for operating fees last year, but the assessment showed $2.64.
> 
> Also the Program fee doesn't show the PIC vs UDI breakdown anymore, only the total. I ultimately had to use $0.69996 as my Program Fee rate for the total to match.




Did canterbury go up?  How much?


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## aams (Dec 10, 2022)

lotus921v said:


> Did canterbury go up?  How much?


4.2 %. details on first page


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## OutSkiing (Dec 11, 2022)

*Midtown Manhattan*
2023 Maintenance Fee 4.80
Reserve Fund .46
Property Tax .00
Total HOA Fee 5.26
Increase 7.78%

I cannot find a 2022 Assessment Summary for Midtown so this increase is based on $4.88 fee shown in the consolidated spreadsheet (where did that number come from?). If correct, this is a bigger increase than expected for Midtown. I wonder if its the reserve fund or the base fee that caused this.

*Rio Mar Puerto Rico*
2023 Maintenance Fee 5.93
Reserve Fund 1.05
Property Tax .22
Total HOA Fee. 7.20
Increase ??

*Bali Hai – Annual Upper floor (325k points)*
2023 Maintenance Fee 3.32
Reserve Fund .78
Property Tax .48
Total HOA Fee. 4.58
Increase ??

*Bali Hai – Biannual Upper floor (325k points)*
2023 Maintenance Fee 3.52
Reserve Fund .78
Property Tax .48
Total HOA Fee. 4.78
Increase ??


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## GRapuser (Dec 11, 2022)

*Bali Hai Standard Points*
2023 Maintenance Fee 3.63
Reserve Fund 0.68
Property Tax 0.19
Total HOA Fee $3.33
Increase 7.15%

*Bali Hai Designated Points*
2023 Maintenance Fee 3.78
Reserve Fund 0.77
Property Tax 0.21
Total HOA Fee $4.76


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## lotus921v (Dec 11, 2022)

GRapuser said:


> *Bali Hai Standard Points*
> 2023 Maintenance Fee 3.63
> Reserve Fund 0.68
> Property Tax 0.19
> ...


Would you check your math on the standard points again please?  Based off the percentage it’s about 4.20/k?


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## markb53 (Dec 12, 2022)

lotus921v said:


> Would you check your math on the standard points again please?  Based off the percentage it’s about 4.20/k?


If the numbers are correct and the math is wrong the total MF for Bali Hai is $4.50 for 2023 which is almost a 15% increase


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## spackler (Dec 12, 2022)

markb53 said:


> If the numbers are correct...


The math is wrong & the post should be edited.  Bali Hai's standard UDI points come in at $4.20 for 2023.


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## paxsarah (Dec 12, 2022)

spackler said:


> The math is wrong & the post should be edited.  Bali Hai's standard UDI points come in at $4.20 for 2023.


So are both the math and the individual amounts wrong in that original post? Because the amounts add up to $4.50.


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## ausman (Dec 12, 2022)

markb53 said:


> If the numbers are correct and the math is wrong the total MF for Bali Hai is $4.50 for 2023 which is almost a 15% increase


  A better breakdown for the UDI points would be this summary from the association:

Operating     1.93
Reserves         .68
Condo Dues  1.59

Total               4.20


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## Sandi Bo (Dec 12, 2022)

rickandcindy23 said:


> Is Wyndham going to send out the statements this year with everything owned listed in one easy spot?  I cannot really use the paymentus portal at all.  It's been a disaster for me.


My statement came today (USPS).


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## philemer (Dec 13, 2022)

Grand Desert 1 & 2, Las Vegas, went from $5.13/1000 to $5.41/1000, a 5.30% increase.


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## philemer (Dec 13, 2022)

GRapuser said:


> *Bali Hai Standard Points*
> 2023 Maintenance Fee 3.63
> Reserve Fund 0.68
> Property Tax 0.19
> ...



Shouldn't the "standard points" be $4.50? 3.63+.68+.19=4.50.


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## lotus921v (Dec 13, 2022)

philemer said:


> Shouldn't the "standard points" be $4.50? 3.63+.68+.19=4.50.


The numbers are wrong.  It’s $4.20


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## nerk01 (Dec 14, 2022)

Just got year end from Hawaii Waikiki Beach Walk.

2023 
Operating Fee 4.11
Reserve 1.59
Taxes 0.44
Condo/AOAO Dues 0.18

Total HOA Fee $6.33
Increase 8.8%


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## GRapuser (Dec 14, 2022)

lotus921v said:


> Would you check your math on the standard points again please?  Based off the percentage it’s about 4.20/k?


Sorry about that. I made the mistake of clicking Post Reply without double-checking my numbers. I typed it wrong and the total fee for standard points is indeed 4.20.


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## paxsarah (Dec 31, 2022)

I’m just bumping this thread in case any owners who missed this earlier might have their assessment letters handy to share MF updates with us.


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## acatmeowz (Jan 2, 2023)

FYI—  The 2023 Maintenance Assessment Summary can be found on the Wyndahm website by logging into Paymentus and going to "Accounts." Find the account "Wyndham Vacation Resorts Member Payment" followed by your member number. At the bottom of this box on the left, click on "View Statement History." The last document listed is dated January 1900. Click on the corresponding "VIEW" to see your 2023 Summary. I know, what a crazy place to hide this information.

Also, if your account is like ours... EVERY contract we ever had with Wyndham was listed. You can call Finance and have all your inactive accounts removed so you can only see what's relevant to you. After this call, I only see the current loan, maintenance, ARDA and Perks.


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## spackler (Jan 3, 2023)

This is by far the most convoluted payment/statement structure I have among all my household bills.


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## HitchHiker71 (Jan 3, 2023)

acatmeowz said:


> FYI—  The 2023 Maintenance Assessment Summary can be found on the Wyndahm website by logging into Paymentus and going to "Accounts." Find the account "Wyndham Vacation Resorts Member Payment" followed by your member number. At the bottom of this box on the left, click on "View Statement History." The last document listed is dated January 1900. Click on the corresponding "VIEW" to see your 2023 Summary. I know, what a crazy place to hide this information.
> 
> Also, if your account is like ours... EVERY contract we ever had with Wyndham was listed. You can call Finance and have all your inactive accounts removed so you can only see what's relevant to you. After this call, I only see the current loan, maintenance, ARDA and Perks.



Thanks for pointing this out - I was wondering where this data was actually being posted.  Far from intuitive without a doubt.  Personally I think they should create a separate link on the left-hand navigation pane entitled "Assessment Summaries" or something similar - rather than burying this within the Accounts tab underneath a specific contract item.  Whose with me?  I'll submit this as an enhancement request to Wyndham for review.


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## rickandcindy23 (Jan 4, 2023)

troy12n said:


> Maybe some of those extra MF at PCB will go to replace the elevators there. They are a *constant* problem...


We are here now and the elevators seem to be crazy fast and mostly available.  I found it quite scary to be in the elevator with the sound of the wind in the shaft as we shot straight up like a rocket to the 24th floor.  I wasn't about to walk the stairs, but think of the exercise that would be.


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## rickandcindy23 (Jan 4, 2023)

spackler said:


> This is by far the most convoluted payment/statement structure I have among all my household bills.


I have my statement that was mailed to me, but another TUG member asked me what the program fee is, and I cannot see that information on the statement.  I only see the total amount of the program fee on my two statements.


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## HitchHiker71 (Jan 4, 2023)

rickandcindy23 said:


> I have my statement that was mailed to me, but another TUG member asked me what the program fee is, and I cannot see that information on the statement.  I only see the total amount of the program fee on my two statements.



The breakdown for program fees, or for any of the individual resort fees, really isn't available on the PaymentUS online statements either - you would have to calculate it manually.  Below is a screenshot of my actual online annual assessment from the PaymentUS online statement, with my account numbers whited out - for ease of reference.  As you can see, the first line contains the program fee assessments for all contracts on the account, with no breakdowns, and the other line items only contain the total fees for each contract - again no breakdown of monthly amounts, or x/1000 amounts, etc.  Just the annual  totals for each line item.


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## paxsarah (Jan 4, 2023)

My snail mailed assessment came with two additional boilerplate pages, one of which included the program fee rates/minimums (as I posted in an earlier comment).


paxsarah said:


> Welp, no. The mailed version is the same as the Paymentus version, meaning you have to do your own math to get the MF rate on each property. It does have the second page that lists the program fee and other related info.
> 
> 2023 program fees:
> PlusPartners: $.70/k with a minimum of $195
> ...


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## chapjim (Jan 4, 2023)

HitchHiker71 said:


> Thanks for pointing this out - I was wondering where this data was actually being posted.  Far from intuitive without a doubt.  Personally I think they should create a separate link on the left-hand navigation pane entitled "Assessment Summaries" or something similar - rather than burying this within the Accounts tab underneath a specific contract item.  Whose with me?  I'll submit this as an enhancement request to Wyndham for review.



Definitely!  I'd given up on having this detailed page.

Can't imagine how @acatmeowz ever found it.  Oughtta get a piece of cheese or something!
​


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## HitchHiker71 (Jan 4, 2023)

chapjim said:


> Definitely!  I'd given up on having this detailed page.
> 
> Can't imagine how @acatmeowz ever found it.  Oughtta get a piece of cheese or something!
> ​



Seriously!   

I already submitted this to Wyndham yesterday, and initial feedback indicates that the Consumer Finance department is aware of this problem and is working on a solution - no details yet on the solution though - so I've asked if they can share any details on the proposed solution they have in mind...


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## chapjim (Jan 4, 2023)

HitchHiker71 said:


> Seriously!
> 
> I already submitted this to Wyndham yesterday, and initial feedback indicates that the Consumer Finance department is aware of this problem and is working on a solution - no details yet on the solution though - so I've asked if they can share any details on the proposed solution they have in mind...



Not sure if "problem" is your word or theirs.  If it is theirs, they are the root cause of the "problem."  Why hide this document?  How hard can it be to add a link to it?


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## acatmeowz (Jan 6, 2023)

You give me too much credit in finding the MF document. I called Wyndham and was walked through the process. I agree that EVERYTHING about Paymentus is a mess... a total failure for Wyndham.


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## noreenkate (Saturday at 2:07 AM)

HitchHiker71 said:


> Thanks for pointing this out - I was wondering where this data was actually being posted.  Far from intuitive without a doubt.  Personally I think they should create a separate link on the left-hand navigation pane entitled "Assessment Summaries" or something similar - rather than burying this within the Accounts tab underneath a specific contract item.  Whose with me?  I'll submit this as an enhancement request to Wyndham for review.



I seriously do not understand why this is so complicated  for the life of me I can’t figure out what my Wyndham  bill is…When I go on website one page says $14, another says $250 and if I hit bill pay it says $0 due…
I called owner care to get access and it took a bit but I can now log on. When I asked how do I pay see & pay bill for the year they said just times ot by 12…um sorry but IMO that’s ridiculous. Imo I should be able to see which contract costs what for the year  and pay the bill …

Is there no way to see an annual cost breakdown?


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## paxsarah (Saturday at 7:44 AM)

noreenkate said:


> Is there no way to see an annual cost breakdown?


It’s been described a couple of times in this thread, as below. (I’ve also received mine by mail.)


Melder said:


> I noticed a document under Bill History dated Jan 1, 1900 in the Customer Portal. It contains my 2023 Assessment Summary. It states, "This is not a bill" and only contains total values.


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## noreenkate (Saturday at 9:32 AM)

paxsarah said:


> It’s been described a couple of times in this thread, as below. (I’ve also received mine by mail.)


Yeah I don't have that Jan 1900 in the Customer Portal....


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## Timeshare Von (Saturday at 10:01 AM)

ausman said:


> No, you really can not say that. Not everything in Wyndham can be that absolute. Westwinds consists of 1BR and 2BR units that are converted to Wyndham points.
> 
> You can look at the points charts for Westwinds and see that 77k points is a 2BR in Quite time. The MF for that unit is $884.17 as posted by Timeshare Von and that 2br unit in Prime time is worth 175K which is $5.05/K. Depending on what week number was converted to WYN and the points granted will give the MF per K but all owners of a two bedroom will be paying $884.17 in MF's.
> 
> We, collectively, have lost knowledge when owners of converted weeks don't report the unit size and points granted when reporting MF's. the last comprehensive listing for converted weeks MF's date to 2017.


Correct . . . this contract was purchased by my sister and BIL and was sold to them as 77k points for a 2BR in quiet time.  The only saving grace (for me) is that when they transferred it to me, it is treated as I am the original owner and not as a resale with depreciated value/use.


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## Timeshare Von (Saturday at 10:05 AM)

paxsarah said:


> That was the first thing I thought, but looking at the historic MF spreadsheet gives a 2BR in 2017 (the last year it was updated for Westwinds) as $1004.74 - so it seems very strange to me that a 2BR six years later would have decreased to $884.17. Then I was wondering if maybe the 77k was instead based on a 154k biennial (which would equal a 2BR in high season), which would be a steep increase - the equivalent of going from $1004 to $1768 in six years (around a 12% increase annually), which also seems unusual. And then I wondered if Westwinds had some UDI contracts that I wasn't aware of. But regardless, my takeaway is that the MFs at Westwinds are probably not good and to avoid them if I'm looking at resales.


I agree that on a per point basis, the MFs at Westwinds seems very steep.  It's been a nice little package to use to use Wyndham resorts without going through RCI . . . but I will soon be deeding it back to Wyndham using their exit program.


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## acatmeowz (Saturday at 5:28 PM)

chapjim said:


> Definitely!  I'd given up on having this detailed page.
> 
> Can't imagine how @acatmeowz ever found it.  Oughtta get a piece of cheese or something!
> ​


You give me too much credit in finding the MF document. I called Wyndham and was walked through the process. I agree that EVERYTHING about Paymentus is a mess... a total failure for Wyndham.


noreenkate said:


> Yeah I don't have that Jan 1900 in the Customer Portal....View attachment 71175


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## noreenkate (Saturday at 5:55 PM)

acatmeowz said:


> You give me too much credit in finding the MF document. I called Wyndham and was walked through the process. I agree that EVERYTHING about Paymentus is a mess... a total failure for Wyndham.


Omg I am an arse! It’s not there…


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## bnoble (Sunday at 2:58 PM)

Some may be late. I have an updated payment amount, but have not received the annual summary. I was helpfully told the summary was delayed, by email on December 30th.



> Dear Valued Owner,
> 
> It has come to our attention that due to a system issue, the 2023 Annual Club Wyndham Dues Notification for the above account is delayed and expected to be mailed in the coming weeks. As of today, your 2023 Club Wyndham dues monthly payment amount is $XXX.


The amount in that email was my 2022 amount. I have a new (higher) amount listed as due for January, but I have no idea as to why.

I also don't have a January 1990 entry in any of my account bill histories.


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## noreenkate (Sunday at 4:10 PM)

bnoble said:


> I also don't have a January 1990 entry in any of my account bill histories.



Thank you for posting that-  I thought I was going nuts…


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## rickandcindy23 (Monday at 4:09 PM)

Club Wyndham Smoky Mountains:

$5.95 per 1,000 + program fee of about .70 per thousand for 630,000 and 760,000 point contracts
$6.31 per 1,000 for 311,000

It's cheaper to own the bigger contracts.  Those should be easy to give away.


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## rickandcindy23 (Monday at 4:17 PM)

Club Wyndham Fairfield Bay, AR.  I honestly do not know what phases of the resort goes to each MF:

$7.00/ 1,000 for 154,000 + program fee of .70 per 1,000
$7.34/ 1,000 for 154,000 + program fee of .70 per 1,000 (different phase that has bigger reserve fund)
$5.27/ 1,000 for 154,000 + program fee of .70 per 1,000 (different phase of the resort)
$6.33/ 1,000 for 154,000 + program fee of .70 per 1,000 
$6.21/ 1,000 for 182,000 + program fee of .70 per 1,000


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## rickandcindy23 (Monday at 4:22 PM)

Club Wyndham Kingsgate:

$5.53 per 1,000 for 238,000 points
$6.48 per 1,000 for 203,000 points
$6.75 per 1,000 for 84,000 points


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## rickandcindy23 (Monday at 4:26 PM)

Angel Fire:
$3.83 per 1,000 for 154,000 points

CW Branson Meadows:
$8.11 per 1,000 for 28,000 points

Patriot's Place:
$6.44 per 1,000 for 175,000

PalmAire:
$7.60 per 1,000 for 171,000

Ocean Ridge:
$9.50 per 1,000 for 182,000


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## driggs (Tuesday at 8:14 PM)

Any information on Dye Villas??


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## cbyrne1174 (Tuesday at 9:00 PM)

rickandcindy23 said:


> Angel Fire:
> $3.83 per 1,000 for 154,000 points
> 
> CW Branson Meadows:
> ...


Are you guys ever at home!??! You own too much!


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## troy12n (Tuesday at 10:31 PM)

> Are you guys ever at home!??! You own too much!



They were mega renters, that's why they owned so much.


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## scootr5 (Wednesday at 8:50 AM)

HitchHiker71 said:


> Seriously!
> 
> I already submitted this to Wyndham yesterday, and initial feedback indicates that the Consumer Finance department is aware of this problem and is working on a solution - no details yet on the solution though - so I've asked if they can share any details on the proposed solution they have in mind...





paxsarah said:


> It’s been described a couple of times in this thread, as below. (I’ve also received mine by mail.)





noreenkate said:


> Yeah I don't have that Jan 1900 in the Customer Portal....View attachment 71175




It _was_ in mine, but is no longer there.

Does anyone else see a new invoice for $10.00 for ARDA now? They better not take it through auto-pay, as it is not a contribution I desire to make.


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## bnoble (Wednesday at 9:05 AM)

I see it, but it is a separate invoice. I do not want to contribute to ARDA either. I figure I’ll wait until something happens before worrying about it.


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## r4rab (Wednesday at 9:28 AM)

Total MFs
CWA - 7.22/1K unsure of increase; see earlier posts for add'l info
MVC St Thomas
MF          5.93/K
Reserve   1.05/K
Prop Tax  0.22/K

Total 7.20/K       Unknown pct increase but I believe it is somewhere around 4% based on my total combined increase across all contracts.


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## njbelf (Wednesday at 12:54 PM)

scootr5 said:


> It _was_ in mine, but is no longer there.
> 
> Does anyone else see a new invoice for $10.00 for ARDA now? They better not take it through auto-pay, as it is not a contribution I desire to make.


I also see it in mine but it's not set up for auto-pay.  In fact, it's listed as a separate account.


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## scootr5 (Yesterday at 9:32 AM)

bnoble said:


> I see it, but it is a separate invoice. I do not want to contribute to ARDA either. I figure I’ll wait until something happens before worrying about it.


 
I would be tempted to do that too, but I'm concerned the "something happens" would be being locked out of the account or having reservations cancelled due to a past due balance.

Edited to add: I called in, and was told that it is strictly a "donation", even though it does not state that anywhere in the portal, would not affect the account in any way if not paid, and when I asked if it would eventually drop off was told "yes". We'll see what happens.


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