# Which have the best Hotels - Hilton, Marriott or Starwood



## korndoc (Dec 27, 2006)

Based on the way we travel, having a Hotel based ts makes sense to us.  Every couple of years I would like to use the time share to give me enough "points" to go on a vacation at a first class hotel in places such as New York, Paris, London, where the cost of these top category hotels are huge and there are no time shares within miles.

I understand the differences in costs: Marriott and Starwood would require a developer purchase while Hilton allows me to buy resale.  For this reason I would lean toward Hilton, of course.  

I also understand the differences in the availability of good timeshares.  The Westins seem to really be top notch while the Marriotts seem to have so many more locations, and both are on II which seems have better trading options than RCI, which Hilton is with.  For this reason, I would not lean toward the Hilton.

But just based on the quality of the hotels, are all the top category hotels for each chain wonderful?  Does one hotel chain beat the others?  Is the quality of the top category in the Hilton hotel chain up to the standards of the other 2?  

And finally, how hard is it to get these hotel rooms?  Do the hotels only allow a certain number of rooms to be available for the points exchanges (Star Points, Marriott Points, or HHonors points) like the frequent flyer programs at the airlines, or do they give you a room if it is available when you call, as if you were paying cash?

Thanks,

Jeff


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## Kazakie (Dec 27, 2006)

*Hotel based timeshares*

Jeff,

…well it depends…

Here’s my 2 cents

Marriott
*Pros:* Largest # of locations, Top Quality resorts, somewhat reasonable maintenance fees, preferred intra-marriott exchanging
*Cons:* Older properties are not Top Quality (but even after eliminating these resorts they still have the largest hotel-based program), Poor exchange of points per maint fee dollar paid, Marriott Rewards points are the hardest of the big-3 to use.  Stay-Anytime awards use more points and aren’t truly stay-anytime.  Must buy from developer to trade to Marriott points.

Starwood
*Pros:* Westin are Top Quality (and have the maint fees to go with it), StarOptions are grate for intra-starwood trading, home owners have preference months 7-12, Starwood has no blackout dates for anyone (as long as there’s a room available).
*Cons:* Limited locations, very high maintenance fees (and exponentially increasing), StarOptions okay for StarPoints conversion

Hyatt
*Pros:*  I believe they are the only ones with all-Top Quality resorts (well, except the Four Seasons), Hyatts point system, very exclusive locations.  You own a physical unit and week and have a right of first refusal for your owned week.
*Cons:* Some locations have high maintenance fees, but if you’re trading for points, there are defiantly value locations, very exclusive locations.  Hard to earn Hyatt Gold Passport points outside of hotels/timeshares.
*Unknown:* converting to Hyatt Gold Passport points

Hilton
*Pros:* Many affiliated resorts help cover location gap.  HHonors is one of the better programs.  Reduced points usage for 4, 5 & 6 night stays.  If you have Gold or Diamond status there are no blackout dates (and you can earn Gold status with credit card usage).
*Cons:* A lot of variety in property quality (but I’d rather have the location option or no option)
*Unknown:* Value onverting to Hilton HHonors points, maint fees


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## Cathyb (Dec 27, 2006)

I can ony speak for Starwood and Marriott:  Getting hotel rooms in difficult places like Paris was a piece of cake for us with Starwood points. They have this 'guarantee' of no blackout dates -- using no extra points.  Marriott is a little tougher but not impossible if you reserve in plenty of time. They charge more points for the 'guarantee'. We stayed in London with them.

IMHO Starwood has higher quality t/s condos in very nice places, but near impossible to exchange into (St. John, Harborside, Maui) in top seasons. Even as an owner of one week, it is difficult to get weeks when schools are out. Same for Marriott, we own Platinum week at Newport Coast which covers 5 months. Everyone wants July, August and that is difficult to get.

Neither program is easy to understand.  There are little tricks you learn along the way to hopefully get what you want; like buying a cheap second week to allow you a 13 month lead instead of 12 month to get a unit reserved.


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## DeniseM (Dec 27, 2006)

I personally would never convert my Starwood week to hotel points, because I don't think you get a good value in return.  For example, we have a 2 bdm. lock-off on Maui.  I can stay in it as a 2 bdm. for 1 week, or a 1 bdm. for 2 weeks.  

If I convert my week to Starpoints, I would get 80,000 Starpoints.  However, a Starwood level 5 hotel, in a comparable location, (like the Sheraton or Westin, Maui) charges 12,000 - 16,000 Starpoints per night, so for my week, I might not even get a week in a standard hotel room.  

The real luxury hotels in the Starwood system (level 6) charge 20,000 - 25,000 Starpoints a night.  Here is a link to the details - https://www.starwoodhotels.com/preferredguest/starpoints/redeem/index.html?back=-2

I think a better option is to get a Starwood AMEX and use it to pay for everything - then you will accumulate Starpoints for hotel stays, without giving up your TS week.  Using our AMEX we earn about the same number of Starpoints that we would if we converted out TS week to points, and all it costs us is the $50 a year card fee.  So far, we have been using our Starpoints for tix to Hawaii every summer.


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## korndoc (Dec 29, 2006)

Kazakie said:


> If you have Gold or Diamond status there are no blackout dates (and you can earn Gold status with credit card usage).



Thanks Denise, Kazakie and Cathy.

Kazakie, you mentioned Gold Status can be earned with a credit card...how and what are the benefits of Gold Status?  Also, is there any value to using the AMEX card for FF miles as well as hotel rooms?

Jeff


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## GadgetRick (Dec 29, 2006)

Are you asking about their resorts or their hotels? I used to travel for business and I originally stayed at Marriotts. Their quality is hit/miss. Some are very nice, some are just ok. I switched to Hiltons and found they were all very nice. Hyatts are also very nice.

Not sure if that helps ya.

The Rickster


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## SallyMagoo (Dec 29, 2006)

korndoc said:


> Thanks Denise, Kazakie and Cathy.
> 
> Kazakie, you mentioned Gold Status can be earned with a credit card...how and what are the benefits of Gold Status?  Also, is there any value to using the AMEX card for FF miles as well as hotel rooms?
> 
> Jeff



I can address some of this.  It takes $20,000 per annual AMEX credit card usage to get gold status in Hilton.  For me, it's a quandry whether to try to accumulate miles on our frequent flyer cards, or whether to build up the points for Hilton gold status and hotel stays.  

We got 6 nights at the Conrad Hilton in London in the Fall through a VIP award.  Because we were golds, my husband and I got Continental breakfast at the hotel each morning of our stay. The charge for that breakfast would have been 18 pounds per person or about $36.00 each!  

I believe gold status entitles you to special treatment for reservations, and no blackout dates, but I'm not sure.  

I also believe the rewards for gold at each Hilton brand are different.  You may be able to find out more by going on the Hilton website and looking for information about the Honors program.  You can also find out lots of information by reading threads on Flyertalk.com - where people discuss various reward programs.


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## DeniseM (Dec 29, 2006)

korndoc said:


> Also, is there any value to using the AMEX card for FF miles as well as hotel rooms?
> 
> Jeff



Yes, 20,000 Starwood AMEX points convert to 25,000 air miles.


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## Kazakie (Dec 29, 2006)

*HHonors Gold VIP*



korndoc said:


> Gold Status can be earned with a credit card...how and what are the benefits of Gold Status?



*Upgrade to Gold VIP*
Spend $20,000 or more in a calendar year (on your HHonors AXP card) and you will be upgraded to Gold VIP status4. https://www124.americanexpress.com/...List#Hilton HHonors Member Benefits_Hilton_SD

*HHonors Gold VIP Membership*
Enjoy HHonors Hotel Rewards without Blackout Dates
Effective May 1, 2006, Gold VIP members may redeem points for HHonors hotel rewards nearly any time, with the only exception being during specified Extraordinary Demand Dates at certain hotels. 
http://hhonors1.hilton.com/en_US/hh/about/gold.do


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## korndoc (Dec 30, 2006)

SallyMagoo said:


> For me, it's a quandry whether to try to accumulate miles on our frequent flyer cards, or whether to build up the points for Hilton gold status and hotel stays.



Thanks Rick. I am asking to comare the hotels

Denise, I am familiar with the Starwood Amex card and will probably get it.  I was just hoping the HHonors Amex Card was equally good for hotel stays and FF miles.  I think I will buy into the Hilton ts system, and so it makes sense I should have their card.  But I want to also collect miles so I can get to the timeshares.  Should I convert the ts for Hilton Hotel stays, and have left over points, it would be nice if they could be used for miles.   So one card for all my charging that could be used for the hotels or for airline miles would be great.  

What is the conversion of HHonors points back to airline miles?  I think I read once it was 3:1.  If $1.00 charged = 1 point, each airline mile would cost $3 of spending, if this is correct.  Not much value there, for FF miles.

You see, I share SallyMagoo's quandry.


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## folashade (Dec 30, 2006)

korndoc said:


> But just based on the quality of the hotels, are all the top category hotels for each chain wonderful?  Does one hotel chain beat the others?  Is the quality of the top category in the Hilton hotel chain up to the standards of the other 2?
> 
> And finally, how hard is it to get these hotel rooms?  Do the hotels only allow a certain number of rooms to be available for the points exchanges (Star Points, Marriott Points, or HHonors points) like the frequent flyer programs at the airlines, or do they give you a room if it is available when you call, as if you were paying cash?



I can answer the hotel portion of your of your question since I spend a lot of time in hotels because of work

*Marriott *- They have a ton of hotels across various price levels.  That being said I'm not a fan of Marriott Hotels.  The J.W. brand hotels are usually very nice.  The other brands are hit or miss.  Marriott does have blackout dates but you can use more points and book anytime hotel rewards

*Hilton* - They also have a ton of hotels across various price levels.  However unlike Marriott the hotels are more consistent.  As a Gold you can redeem points for anytime except for Extraordinary Demand Dates at certain hotels. Generally as a Gold I received room upgrades and if there was no lounge (you can get free continental breakfast in the lounge) then I received free continental breakfast each day. (this varies at different brands. Hampton gives you 2 free bottles of water, Embassy either free internet access or another amenity, Garden Inn gives you full breakfast and water if you don't want any of these amenities you can choose a set amt of points at most brands)

*Hyatt *- Less hotels than the other two but more consistancy (I don't stay at the Amerisuites, or Summerfield brands) and I generally really like the Hyatt Brand.  For Platinum status you need 5 stays or 15 nights.  Generally there are no blackout nights for award stays.  However when you hit a min of Platinum status you can get an award stay even when the award inventory is sold out (however you will pay a 60% premium)

*Starwood* - Less hotels than Hilton and Marriott but I really like this brand. St regis, Westin, Luxury Collection, and W hotels are generally top notch hotels and I really enjoy the customer service. The hotels in the Sheraton brands are hit or miss at times and based on my one experience at a 4 pts I won't be staying there again. There are no blackout dates for redeeming points for award stays. Gold gets you a 4PM checkout, newspaper, and room upgrades (don't get too excited this usually gets you on a Starwood preferred floor - The real upgrades come in when you are platinum there is a world of difference between being Gold and Plaitnum with SPG) Plat with starwood gets you amenity gifts at checkin, Suites if available and you can force a reservation 72 hrs prior at a sold out hotel

In order I go Starwood, Hyatt, Hilton boutique hotel, then Marriott for hotel stays


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## korndoc (Dec 30, 2006)

Wow, great reply Folashade,. Thanks.  

I have heard a lot of great things about both the time shares and now the hotels at Starwood and I would probably prefer to buy there.  But they are the most expensive to buy.  To be able to cash in a ts week for their top category hotel, you have to buy from the developer at a premium.  Maui is over $40,000!  

Whereas the Hilton system can be bought as a resale, and because it is a points system, I am learning on TUG, any Hilton developed property is essentially as good as any other.  So a Hilton purchase may be nearly 1/3 the price.  Pretty compelling.

Thanks everyone for your replies.

Jeff


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## DavidnRobin (Dec 30, 2006)

korndoc said:


> Wow, great reply Folashade,. Thanks.
> 
> I have heard a lot of great things about both the time shares and now the hotels at Starwood and I would probably prefer to buy there.  But they are the most expensive to buy.  To be able to cash in a ts week for their top category hotel, you have to buy from the developer at a premium.  Maui is over $40,000!
> 
> ...


Not sure where you got this info, but... you can buy Starwood resale (We bought 3) - 81K StarOptions at Westin Kaanapali can be had for <$20K, and 148.1K SOs for around $30K.  StarOptions can be  bought cheaper at Westin Kierland (Scottsdale) or Sheraton Vistana Villages (Orlando) - 81K SOs should be the minimum to buy resale as to exchange into a 1 Bd in Hawaii.

You can even buy your first as a resale - then requalify it by purchasing the next thru Starwood if you want the benefits (such as StarPoint conversion).  As a resale buyer you can't use the StarPoint conversion to use for Hotel stays - as to your post.  Some Tuggers - including us - would not recommend doing this anyway...

If you are only buying a TS week - why would you want to convert it to a Hotel stay anyway - since you can use the exchange system.  IMO, converting a TS into a Hotel stay is only useful if you own a bunch of weeks and have plenty of vacation time.  Why give up a sweet TS (like WKORV) to stay in a hotel?  With a lower class TS I can see where this may be useful (or trading thru II or RCI), but not for the Westins (again, my opinion)

If you want Hawaii - and you decide on Starwood - I would recommend buying a 1Bd unit at WKORV (Kaanapali) resale [81K SOs].  They are a bunch listed on TUG classifieds... then use all the money you save to stay in a hotel.


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## Kazakie (Dec 30, 2006)

*HHonors for airline tix*



korndoc said:


> I was just hoping the HHonors Amex Card was equally good for hotel stays and FF miles.  I think I will buy into the Hilton ts system, and so it makes sense I should have their card.  But I want to also collect miles so I can get to the timeshares.  Should I convert the ts for Hilton Hotel stays, and have left over points, it would be nice if they could be used for miles.   So one card for all my charging that could be used for the hotels or for airline miles would be great.
> 
> What is the conversion of HHonors points back to airline miles?  I think I read once it was 3:1.  If $1.00 charged = 1 point, each airline mile would cost $3 of spending, if this is correct.  Not much value there, for FF miles.



You can directly use HHonors for award tix or transfer them (neither are my first choice for additional reward airline tix)

http://hhonors1.hilton.com/en_US/hh/rewards/airlines.do

http://hhonors1.hilton.com/en_US/hh/points/pointsformiles.do


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## korndoc (Dec 31, 2006)

blujahz said:


> If you are only buying a TS week - why would you want to convert it to a Hotel stay anyway



I certainly agree that a timeshare offers so much more than a hotel room.  However, I would like to travel to Europe or New York City every 2-3 years.  Unfortunately, timeshares are sparse in the large cities such as NY, Paris, London.  So if I am to go there, I would likely have to stay at a hotel.  So why not stay at a top category hotel, one I would probably never stay at if I were to pay cash?    With a lock-out timeshare, or one with enough points, I could still have a 1 bedroom ts vacation every year while still taking this European trip. Credit card spending with a card such as the Starwood AMEX would allow us to fly business class.  Not a bad trip.


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## korndoc (Dec 31, 2006)

Kazakie said:


> You can directly use HHonors for award tix or transfer them (neither are my first choice for additional reward airline tix)[/url]




Thanks.  I went to the HHonors site and found that a flight within the continental US on American Airlines would cost 100,000 HHonors Pointsl  The HHonors AMEX card produces 3 points per dollar spent, a bit more on dining and gas expenses.  Therefore, 100,000 points would require me to spend over $33,000 as opposed to the $20,000 I would need to spend on the Starwood card to earn the 25,000 FF miles needed for a cross country trip.  Huge difference. I guess there is no reason to use the HHonors credit card for miles,


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## Kazakie (Dec 31, 2006)

korndoc said:


> I would like to travel to Europe or New York City every 2-3 years.  Unfortunately, timeshares are sparse in the large cities such as NY, Paris, London.



Hilton has a timeshare in NYC
http://www.hiltongrandvacations.com/new-york-suite-rentals.php

Marriott has a Grand Residence Club in London
http://www.grandresidenceclub.com/en-us/london/default.jsp

Marriott has a TS outside of Paris (way outside of Paris)
www.vacationclub.com/resorts/dp/default.jsp

========
The best hotel chain point "value" depend on how long your stays generally are.  

*Marriott discounts each additional night up to 7 nights
*Hilton has reduced points stays for 4, 5, & 6 nights
*Starwood has 5th Night Free (redeem for 5 consecutive nights, use point for only 4)


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## rfb813 (Dec 31, 2006)

I don't believe you can exchange into the Grand Residence Club in London through Marriott; they are exchanging through Ritz Carlton Club.


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