# Is this legal in California and/or the U.S.?



## Ddee555 (Jan 29, 2009)

Hello everyone,

I would like everyone's opinion on timesharing as it relates to accessibility for disabled persons.  Because I don't know if this is legal or not, but in my opinion, it just doesn't seem fair.

I own at two different resorts in California: San Clemente Inn and Coronado Beach Resort.  My father is disabled due to Parkinson's Disease and for most of the time, is limited to resting in his bed and using a wheelchair.

Well, I booked my owners week at San Clemente Inn for October 2009.  Usually, owners have to participate in some type of lottery on day of arrival to get a particular unit; however, I was able to right away request the disabled unit--which is a Crest unit and which is the same type unit that I own.  So, all is well and I have no complaints.

Now, with my owners week at Coronado Beach Resort (CBR), it falls on week 20 in May.  Well, at CBR, the only ADA-accessible units are studios.

As I live in southern California, I went to the resort two weeks ago, to view a one bedroom B unit (the type I own), because I wanted to see how accessible it was (i.e., first floor, low tub, room for a wheelchair, etc.).

Well, when I went to reserve the unit that I preferred, I was denied by the Front Desk Manager, because it is "policy" that all owners must wait until 90 days before their week falls, to request any unit.

Well, that really bothered me, on two levels--1) because only the studios are ADA-compliant, so I would have to downgrade my ownership type; and 2) whether I wanted a studio or one bedroom B unit, I would have to wait until 9am on my call-in day to request the unit.

So, my questions are these:

1) Is it legal only to have one unit type ADA-compliant at a timeshare?  In particular, forcing owners to downgrade to lesser units than what they own?
-and-
2) Can a timeshare (Board of Directors, etc.) adopt a policy such as this, that just seems so "heartless" to disabled persons?  Whether it is right or wrong legally, it just seems to be so "cold" and "unfeeling" to those who have legitimate reasons for needing a particular unit.

As I write this, I am imaging in my head the Front Desk Manager at CBR who was quoting "policy" to me.  It makes me mad.

Thank you, everyone, for your thoughts and opinions.  I appreciate any answers, even if they may differ from my own viewpoint.  Take care.


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## winger (Jan 29, 2009)

I do not have anything to add to your specific questions, but to something you said.  I absolutely HATE those higher ups who quote the book. It is just an easy way out for them not to be in the moment, to take a chance and be compassionate and understanding.  Yes, dealing with situations case-by-case makes your job more demanding/time-consuming, BUT this is the part of the job, especially in the timeshare business, that makes or breaks a memorable vacation experience for a guest.  In your case, I can say you are already past the point of no return as you have that sour taste in your mouth. No matter what happens next, your vacation will NOT be the memorable vacation experience you deserve.


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## Ddee555 (Jan 29, 2009)

*Thank you for your support*

Thank you, Winger.  I appreciate what you said.

I have owned at CBR for three years, although I have not used my owners week yet, because it is EOY Odd and I purchased right after the 2007 expired.  So, my family was so looking forward to our week there.

CBR has a good reputation--based on TUG opinions, etc.--which is why I purchased the week.  So, yes, it did leave a "sour taste" in my mouth--my experience with the Front Desk.

I honestly feel that having only the studios ADA-accessible is wrong.  Many people who are disabled, have to have their own bed, because of their conditions.  So, their caregivers sleep on different beds...  But, how would that work in a studio?!?

(Someone was not using their head when they made that decision).

Also, like many disabled persons, my father will be spending most of his time in the unit.  I did prefer a unit with a patio, because then we could wheel his chair outside and he could relax in the sunlight in privacy.

But, rules are rules, huh?  Anyways, thanks again for your input.  Take care.


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## Hoc (Jan 29, 2009)

The ADA requires only "reasonable" accomodation for a disability.  Now what is and isn't reasonable leaves a certain amount of wiggle room.  But my guess is that having only one type of unit as ADA compliant would probably be seen as objectively reasonable by most measures.  So, yes, it's probably legal.


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## Ddee555 (Jan 30, 2009)

*What I have learned...*

Hmm, I've been reading up on ADA accessibility and I believe that Coronado Beach Resort is not compliant with the law, with having only studios accessible.

The "reasonable man" standard is not used in most situations of discrimination.  There are suspect classes and three levels of scrutiny.  Disability is subject to "intermediate scrutiny" which is higher than a "reasonable man" level.  Also, the burden seems to be on the timeshare to show compliance.

I pulled this information from the regulations:

Department of Justice ADA Title III Regulation 28 CFR Part 36
http://www.ada.gov/reg3a.html#Anchor-11210

9. ACCESSIBLE TRANSIENT LODGING.

9.1 Hotels, Motels, Inns, Boarding Houses, Dormitories, Resorts and Other Similar Places of Transient Lodging.

9.1.4 Classes of Sleeping Accommodations.

(1) In order to provide persons with disabilities a range of options equivalent to those available to other persons served by the facility, sleeping rooms and suites required to be accessible by 9.1.2 shall be dispersed among the various classes of sleeping accommodations available to patrons of the place of transient lodging. Factors to be considered include room size, cost, amenities provided, and the number of beds provided.

So, if I am reading correctly, Coronado Beach Resort needs to have at least one 2-bedroom accessible, two one-bedrooms accessible (B & C unit types), and a studio accessible, which are all the types of units available at this timeshare.

Does anybody interpret this law the same way I am reading it?


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## dougp26364 (Jan 30, 2009)

To echo what Dedee555 had written, reasonable man seems to be out the window with ADA. Several years ago Polo Towers was demeaned to not be compliant with ADA and was hit with an order to make specific renovations. I do not recall what those were but, DRI, as my memory serves me, objected and felt they had complied with the requirements. I believe changes where court ordered. Unfortunately, I didn't pay specific attention to this particular issue.

I would call back and take down names and get as many specifics as you can. I would then find the appropriate department to file an official complaint with and see what happens. I doubt that anything would change by the time you travel to your destination since the wheels tend to turn slowly but, you might find the resort provides better access and a better responce than what you've received so far.


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## nana7 (Jan 30, 2009)

I have found that dealing with the MANAGER is far more useful in getting your needs met.  The person at the front desk is only following what they are told.
Get a hold of the manager a head of time if possible.


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## Bill4728 (Jan 30, 2009)

The TS may or may not be in compliance with the ADA. Because it isn't waht the rule is today that matters but the rule which was in effect when the TS was built and sold. So if when the TS was built it was OK, it may still be OK today even if they are not in compliance with today's rules. 

PS If they do significant re-models ect, they have to bring everything up to date with today's rules.


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## Ddee555 (Jan 30, 2009)

*Thank you everyone for your input*

Thank you, everyone.  I am taking everyone's words into consideration.

I know that the Coronado Beach Resort (CBR) opened in 1991 and that the ADA was enacted in 1990.  And I know that resorts have to be minimally in line with the 1990 rules & regulations, unless they qualify for an exemption, i.e., historical building, structually "infeasible," etc.

This morning I spoke briefly with the Front Dest Manager--who was much nicer to me on the phone than in person--and also left a voicemail for the General Manager.  I hope to hear back soon from her.

So, I guess that I have to find out what regulations apply for the year when the ADA-units were made compliant by CBR.

However, based on my personal experience--I was a front desk clerk for a Courtyard Hotel by Marriott from 1996-2000--I know that the hotel was required by law back then, to have each unit type have an ADA-accessible equivalent.  Also, the very last units we could rent for the night had to be the ADA-units.  So, we always set those aside to the very end of each night for possible disabled guests.

In addition, I know that CBR has been remodeling their units in the past few years, to have lower tubs, etc., to make them more accessible for people in general.  I also think the condos have newer mini-kitchens.

So, I don't know if remodeling their units recently triggered any ADA-compliance rules, but I do know with the San Clemente Inn...  They wanted to put in an elevator and when they sought a permit by the city, it's what triggered them to remodel their resort to be ADA-compliant.

Anyways, I appreciate everyone's input...  If anyone knows of any other resorts that have had to deal with ADA-compliance, I am "all ears."  I will look up the case on Polo Towers, as I am definitely interested in pursuing this further...  I would prefer (honestly) to deal with the resort and the Board of Directors informally, as I am an owner, and I don't want to cause a huge legal fuss.  I just want to have the best family vacation with my dad as possible.

However, I also realize that if the studios are the only units that are ADA-accessible, that is really bad--for owners, exchangers and renters.  It takes away from having an enjoyable experience with loved ones.

So, please keep the opinions and advice coming...  In the meantime, I'll keep everyone posted on what more I find out.  Thank you!


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## davidvel (Jan 31, 2009)

Ddee-

The topic you raise is very interesting, and dare I say, complicated. One thing that comes to mind is the question of whether the rules, laws and regulations applicable to hotel rooms (ie. Transient lodging) apply to a deeded timeshare. Put another way, a deeded interest in CA generally is equivalent to a fractional condo interest. So…

If you bought a normal condo that was not required to be ADA compliant in the sense of a hotel room (ie., second floor, stairs, no grab bars, ramps, etc.), and you then wanted to move your father in, would your HOA  (if they could) have to move you to a different condo? Not likely. 

Now how does this translate to a timeshare that you bought that had no ADA accessible features required by your father?  In other words, did you buy a unit that had the features that you now want? Are you now asking for a unit different than you bought? Also, do they have to give a unit that has those features to any owner who wants to bring a guest who requires those features?

I have not researched so cannot offer an opinion on the above questions, and there certainly are others that are important. However, I am confident that the answers are pertinent, and potentially dispositive, of your issue. 

Let us know what you find in your research,.


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## Ddee555 (Jan 31, 2009)

*I'm still digging...*

Hi davidvel,

Thank you for raising those issues.  In my research, I have encountered those exact same issues.  And what I have learned is that there is more settled law on hotels, etc., than there are on timeshares.

In the ADA Title III Technical Assistance Manual from the ada.gov website, it poses this question & answer:

"Can a vacation timeshare property be a place of public accommodation?

Yes. Whether a particular timeshare property is a place of public accommodation depends upon how much the timeshare operation resembles that of a hotel or other typical place of lodging. Among the factors to be considered in this determination are --

1) Whether the timeshare offers short-term ownership interests (for instance, stays of one week or less are considered short term);

2) The nature of the ownership interest conveyed (e.g., fee simple);

3) The degree of restrictions placed on the ownership (e.g., whether the timeshare owner has the right to occupy, alter, or exercise control over a particular unit over a period of time);

4) The extent to which the operations resemble those of a hotel, motel, or inn (e.g., reservations, central registration, meals, laundry service)."

At this time, I am not sure of the answer, at least in this situation, but I'm still digging--I'll continue to post if I find anything relevant.

One factor that I did find which is important on whether a timeshare is more like a hotel, is how many units are marketed for rental to the general public.  Even if units are marketed on a limited basis for rent, it can create a situation for necessary ADA-compliance.

Also, I found that floating unit resorts (such as those at San Clemente Inn and Coronado Beach Resort) may be easier to make ADA-compliant than fixed unit resorts.  At fixed unit resorts, I read one article from a law firm site that said:

"Additionally, in the all-condominium hotel unit setting, ownership of ADA units is a business foundation, as the required number of ADA units must always be available, generally through developer ownership. Third-party ownership and potential participation in a voluntary program is not a viable solution."

So, it seems that at fixed unit resorts, ADA-units have to be set aside and maintained by the Board(?) for disabled guests at all times...

I don't know of any fixed unit timeshare resort that does this?  Do the newer-developed timeshare resorts do this?  --I have no idea how an older fixed unit resort could ever be made ADA-compliant...


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## Ddee555 (Jan 31, 2009)

*Of note...*

I just wanted to mention that the accommodations I was requesting from CBR was to have a particular "B" unit, which is the type of floating unit that I own.  The unit I was requesting was not ADA-compliant, because I have too many members in my party to be downgraded to a studio, and they have no one bedrooms or two bedrooms that are ADA-accessible.

The unit in particular that I wanted was on the first floor, had a low-raise tub, and a fenced patio.  All the other possible "B" units at the resort, either had no balcony, a balcony with inadequate room for wheel-chair access, or lacked a low-raise tub.

So, it was either this unit (#117) or go without the tub or a patio/balcony.  (Also, the other "B" units might be too small for his wheelchair to turn around adequately).

Normally, I'm not a picky-type of person, but I am travelling with my dad and I know he will be spending most of the time in the unit.  So, these features are important to me, because of him.  I love him and want him to have the best time possible, especially since he rarely leaves the house these days.  (He became wheelchair-bound only this past year).

And although I wasn't aware of possible ADA-problems when I bought my timeshares, one of my reasons in purchasing at these resorts was so I could take my dad along.  (I live in southern California and 3 of the resorts I own are 1 1/2-2 1/2 hours from where I live).

I'm not as savvy or as knowledgeable as some of my fellow Tuggers when it comes to knowing timeshares, so it never occurred to me that timeshares might be different from hotels, motels in accessibility issues.  I was just looking to buy at places that sounded nice (great TUG reviews, etc.), that were close-by, and would be a great vacation bargain.

So, I'm willing to compromise with the resort for a non-ADA unit; however, now, that I am learning the law, I am concerned as an owner about these potential violations and liabilities.


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## Keitht (Jan 31, 2009)

Just a few more thoughts to add to the mix.

You might not be the only person who has a disabled person in their group so would it be fair to allocate to you an ADA compliant unit when there might be others with even greater need?
When you purchased, was your father's condition know and if so should you have factored his requirements into your purchase?
Although the ADA rules came into effect in 1990 and the development wasn't completed until 1991, it's entirely possible that the design had been approved before the new rules came into effect.
Hotel booking is very different to timeshare.  If somebody phones to reserve disabled accommodation in a hotel it is either available or it isn't and the person making the reservation is advised at the time.  With timeshare there is the potential for 29 standard units and 1 ADA compliant to be available, but 30 groups all with disabled members to demand ADA compliant accommodation.  All 30 groups will be arriving so what can the management do?


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## theo (Jan 31, 2009)

*One point / question / thought...*

Not to appear as either unsympathetic or a devil's advocate here, which is certainly not my intent, but I find myself wondering about the extent to which any timeshare facility must be ADA compliant *at all*. 

After all, a timeshare facility is essentially private property, with private ownerships, all owners of which were / are (or should be / should have been) fully aware of its infrastructure from the outset. It seems to me that it's certainly not a "public" building, and it's not a "hotel" open or available to the general public. It's private property. Maybe that doesn't matter for ADA applicability (I certainly do not claim to know), but it is a question which came immediately to my mind upon reading this thread... 




Ddee555 said:


> Thank you, everyone.  I am taking everyone's words into consideration.
> 
> I know that the Coronado Beach Resort (CBR) opened in 1991 and that the ADA was enacted in 1990.  And I know that resorts have to be minimally in line with the 1990 rules & regulations, unless they qualify for an exemption, i.e., historical building, structually "infeasible," etc.
> 
> ...


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## Ddee555 (Jan 31, 2009)

*Thank you Keitht & theo*

I appreciate all these comments and opinions and questions.  It is certainly food for thought.

I believe (and agree with) that when it comes to reserving an ADA-unit, it should be on a "first requested" basis.  That's the standard for hotels, and if it applies to timeshares, it should be the standard as well.  It could get ridiculous having to evaluate persons to see if their disability is "more deserving" than another.  You might end up discriminating more than if you never had the unit in the first place (my opinion).

theo, also brings up a good point.  I also own at a fixed unit resort in California, and I don't expect my particular unit to be ever made ADA-compliant--not for my dad or anybody else...  At home, we don't have ADA-compliant tubs/showers, etc., although my dad does sleep with a bed that has guard rails and uses a shower chair.  So, I just expect to "make do" with the fixed unit I own, if my dad comes along.

However, private property can be made "public" triggering all sorts of laws, just be the virtue of it affecting commerce and being rented out.  A private home is subject to all sorts of laws, when it is being turned into rental property.  In particular, the Fair Housing Act (FHA) comes into play if there is possible discrimination, etc.  So, the fact that owners even rent out their units is cause for concern for everyone, as it might trigger such anti-discrimination laws.

In my situation, I am just an owner trying to use my owners week in the type of float unit that I own.  The only accommodation I am asking is to be able to request the particular unit I want in advance of others, because of special needs.  I am not asking CBR to knock down walls or anything.  I'm not even requesting an ADA-unit...  I just want them to re-evaluate their reservation policy, so it doesn't harbor on being discriminatory for a protected class of people.  I want to stay in the same type of unit I own, not be downgraded.

I understand and share the concerns with everyone as I am an owner and I don't want fees to be raised or there to be costly litigation, etc.  But, I also feel that when someone has special needs, that we should show them a bit of compassion.  Much in the world is not black or white, but very grey.  And so when the Board of Directors make a blanket policy with no wiggle room for an exception--that concerns me.  It also seems to be that common sense is lost.

Also, in this situation (my opinion), I can't help but think my resort is trying to be a "cheapskate."  I just honestly don't understand it; if you are going to attempt to be ADA-compliant, even if you don't have to be, then do it right in the first place.  It just seems that studios were only chosen to be accessible, so the resort can "boast" that they are accommodating for disabled persons and their guests.  But, it makes no common sense to have only single bed units (which are Murphy beds in the studios) ADA-compliant.  Just one circumstance where a disabled person is travelling with a non-family member attendant proves that studios can't be the only viable option.

Anyways, I appreciate everyone's comments.  Writing this thread has been very helpful to me--not only in formulating my own thoughts, but also, in calming me down in remembering my confrontation with the Front Desk.  TUG is simply great.


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## beanb41 (Jan 31, 2009)

This problem raises an issue that could be resolved at an AGM of the "Body Corporate" by amending the rules of the resort. I think it would be fair to say that the number of owners requiring a "disabled unit" in relation to the overall membership would be small. Hence if a resort had a "Disabled Unit" the "registered owners requiring a disabled unit" would automatically be allocated that unit if available at the time of booking. If the resort only had studios that were "disabled compliant" then the family would have to make appropriate arrangements. I am not aware of any units being "disabled compliant" at any of the resorts I own in fact as one is built on the side of the hill it is definitely not "disabled" friendly. I do not see the need for resorts to have mandatory "disabled units". I wonder if the extra costs of maintaining "disabled units" are met by the Body Corporate as a whole or by those who want them.


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## Fern Modena (Jan 31, 2009)

I'm unable to go up a flight of stairs at this point, or even step up over a higher than standard curb.  You'd be surprised how many timeshares are not practical for me.  Everybody raves about Arroyo Roble, but its bedrooms are upstairs.  Almost all the timeshares in Galveston are two stories with no ADA units and no guarantee of a ground floor unit.  Many times I request a ground floor unit, only to be told it is "on a request only basis," and I worry until I get there.

I once requested an ADA unit at Oasis in Mesquite.  The unit was fairly well retrofitted (although you couldn't close the bedroom door), but to get from your car to the unit you had to climb a curb higher than I can navigate on my own.  I had to either walk a block down to where it was lower or use my husband to steady me.

So, you see, there are generally no standards or low ones for timeshares which have been around for awhile.  Compliance with ADA is hit and miss, and just because units have been remodeled does not mean they have been retrofitted and made compliant.  I understand you own at this timeshare, but in general the newer the timeshare, the more likely it is to be compliant.

Fern


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## Ddee555 (Jan 31, 2009)

*This is sad to me...*

I appreciate beanb41's comments, although I do not agree with them.

The whole reason the ADA was enacted in the U.S., was to prevent a "shutting out" of a whole class of people from being able to actively participate in society.  So, oftentimes, a person with a disability is limited to staying at home and a few locations, simply because the access to a majority of places are not "wheel-chair" friendly, etc.

So oftentimes as society, we talk about equality--equality between genders, between races, between ethnicities, etc.  But, when it comes to disabled persons, because it hits the pocketbooks more readily, gaining access (which means achieving a level of equality for them), oftentimes gets set aside.

That is sad to me, because it doesn't just limit options in some instances, it rather diminishes a person's entire quality of life on a daily, reoccurring basis.

beanb41 suggests a family would make appropriate arrangements.  One of my uncles is a burn victim and has many ailments, i.e., breathing problems, etc.  His wife is a nurse and takes care of him.  Well, what if they had two small children?  They would be effectively "shut out" from going to this resort, because only a studio is available.  Sure, they could bring a babysitter for the children, but could they do that everytime they have vacation?

I suppose I could think of many scenarios, but in the end, I am really sympathic to those who are disabled (and not just because of my dad).

I feel for Fern's situation, as I suspect that more than a small minority could be helped by timeshares being more ADA-complaint.  Especially, as our society gets older, I am actually surprised that these issues aren't being confronted and addressed more by all timeshare resorts.

In the end, I am sad that a whole class of people might be "shut out" from even purchasing a timeshare.


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## Keitht (Feb 1, 2009)

I can certainly understand why there is an expectation that some units in new resorts will have adaptation to make them suitable for disabled use.  The problem comes with retro-fitting in existing resorts to comply with current or new legislation.  
For example I own a fixed unit on a fixed week so know precisely where I'm going to stay if I occupy at my own resort.  The unit was selected by us for specific reasons.  If the management committee at the resort decided that my unit was best suited for modification would I be expected to accept a different unit if a request had been submitted for disabled access?  I've been supporting the resort for over 20 years so why should I be inconvenienced in order to suit the requirements of a one-off visit?
As has also been mentioned in previous posts, some resorts simply don't lend themselves to adaptation for disabled visitors.  At my own resort I can't think of more than maybe 3 or 4 units that are accessible without going up or down steps.  The ground is too steep in most areas to replace those steps with ramps.  Or at least to replace them within incurring huge cost.


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## Cathyb (Feb 1, 2009)

Try to contact Debbie Drasdup (last name not sure of spelling). She is high up in Grand Pacific Palisades -- the parent company -- and used to sell at Coronado.  See what she can do for you.  Her office is in the lobby of GPP in Carlsbad.


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## Liz Wolf-Spada (Feb 1, 2009)

I hope this works out for you and your dad. My dad passed away and was also very limited and chair bound from Parkinson's. I think it's great you are taking your dad with you. It seems ludicrous to me to only studios available as ADA compliant as many people need to travel with others, especially people who have special needs.
Liz


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