# 2018 Maintenance Fees



## echino (Nov 2, 2017)

Hyatt Piñon Pointe
2br annual week 11

2018 Maintenance Fees 653.81  
2018 Reserves 191.47  
2018 Property Taxes 72.90  
2018 Hrc Dues 153.00  
Voluntary Arda Contribution 0.00
*Total Membership Dues* 1,071.18


I am a new owner, so cannot compare to 2017 and don't know the percentage change.


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## WalnutBaron (Nov 3, 2017)

Thanks so much! Hopefully, the rest of us can add on to this as our invoices begin to arrive over the next few weeks.


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## Kal (Nov 6, 2017)

WalnutBaron said:


> Thanks so much! Hopefully, the rest of us can add on to this as our invoices begin to arrive over the next few weeks.


Hyatt Sunset Harbor

2018 Maintenance Fees 996.57
2018 Reserves 444.53
2017 Property Taxes 92.97
2018 Hrc Dues 153.00
Voluntary Arda Contribution 0.00
*Total Membership Dues* 1,687.07


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## WalnutBaron (Nov 6, 2017)

Thanks, Kal. How does this fee compare to what you paid last year on HSH?


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## Kal (Nov 6, 2017)

WalnutBaron said:


> Thanks, Kal. How does this fee compare to what you paid last year on HSH?


Last year was $1,579 for Sunset Harbor which is a 6.8% increase, a little higher than routine.


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## dagger1 (Nov 6, 2017)

Hyatt Wild Oak Ranch
2/2 Annual Weeks 22 and 23

2018 Maintenance Fee’s  $751.19
2018 Reserves  $187.13
2018 Property Taxes  $148.08
2018 HRC Dues  $153.00
Voluntary ARDA Contribution $5.00

Total Membership Dues  $1,244.40

$-12.25 drop from 2017 MF’s.


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## WalnutBaron (Nov 7, 2017)

Wow! A 12% _*decrease?*_ Fantastico!


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## ivywag (Nov 7, 2017)

Hyatt High Sierra Lodge

2018 Maintenance Fee- $843.21
Reserves-                    $345.13
Property Tax-               $ 71.73
HRC Dues-                  $153.00
ARDA-                              0.00

Total                            $1413.07

Each week is a little different - property taxes vary.

2017-  $1353.06


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## Kal (Nov 7, 2017)

This is always an interesting issue. 

As an example, let's assume the resort contained 100 units and needed to make an upgrade in 2015 which would cost about $1,000,000. So that would be 100 units x 50 weeks (2 weeks held out of the pool) = 5,000 unit-weeks.  Therefore the cost would be $200 per unit week.  The project would be funded by an increase in 2015 MF and be completed within that MF year.  Let's say the MF therefore increase from $1,000 to $1,200 for that year.

Great!  A nice improvement

The following year (2016) the MF stays the same.  But why didn't the MF decrease by $200 once that project was completed?  So it would appear those owners are paying for that 2015 project again in 2016.  And again in 2017.  Looks like a shell game to me.

If there was a special assessment to fund the project, the project would be fully funded at $1,000,000.  Done deal!  Now there's an additional $1,000,000 every year thereafter.


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## ivywag (Nov 7, 2017)

Theoretically there should be enough in reserves to cover any upgrades and planned improvements. However, at High Sierra the board opted to maintain the fees at then current levels for several years during the recession.  Then a couple of years ago we received a large increase because they needed to replenish the reserves which hadn't been fully funded. Of course one of the reasons cited was that our dues were not as high as Marriott Timber Lodge. I guess that we were supposed to feel lucky. To me that wasn't a valid reason to raise our dues! However, that said, the board up there really tries to keep the fees as low as possible while maintaining and upgrading the quality of the resort. As a result of keeping the dues stable during those lean years they were able to minimize the number of defaults


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## dagger1 (Nov 7, 2017)

WalnutBaron said:


> Wow! A 12% _*decrease?*_ Fantastico!


I think it’s more like a 1% decrease.  The explanation was the opening of a new building, so apparently more owners....?


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## Tucsonadventurer (Nov 7, 2017)

Beach House:  $1,272.91 up $50.11 from last yr.


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## WalnutBaron (Nov 7, 2017)

*Highlands Inn  Carmel, CA*
*1BR/2BA Premium, Platinum Week 18*

No invoices have been issued yet, but the proposed 2018 budget calls for a 4% increase in expenses to $1,534.27 per unit and a whopping 44% increase in the reserve to $146.02 per unit. (This may be at least partly in response to the increasing proclivity for wildfire activity in the Santa Cruz Mountains, and corresponding rising costs for property insurance, though that's just a guess.) 

Annual owner's meeting is not scheduled until December 4, and MF bills will presumably go out shortly thereafter. Last year's total fee was $1,728.39. I'll update this when the actual invoices come out.


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## Sapper (Nov 28, 2017)

I'm currently at the Hyatt in Aspen. When returning from supper this evening, there was a lady attempting to check in at the front desk. The front desk clerk was explaining to her that, yes, he has a reservation for her, however, was unable to check her in because she had not paid her maintenance fees. I don't know any other details, but sure hope they were able to come to some kind of resolution. Has anyone ever seen anything like this?


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## WalnutBaron (Nov 29, 2017)

Sapper said:


> I'm currently at the Hyatt in Aspen. When returning from supper this evening, there was a lady attempting to check in at the front desk. The front desk clerk was explaining to her that, yes, he has a reservation for her, however, was unable to check her in because she had not paid her maintenance fees. I don't know any other details, but sure hope they were able to come to some kind of resolution. Has anyone ever seen anything like this?


No, but my question would be_* which maintenance fees *_is she in arrears on? If she hasn't paid her 2018 fees yet, then something is wrong because we're still 30+ days away from 2018 and the due date hasn't even arrived yet. If, as is more likely, she hasn't paid her 2017 fees, then she is definitely in arrears and is lucky she even has a reservation still in place. In that case, Hyatt is using its leverage--as it should--to collect on a very old invoice.


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## Tucsonadventurer (Nov 29, 2017)

Sapper said:


> I'm currently at the Hyatt in Aspen. When returning from supper this evening, there was a lady attempting to check in at the front desk. The front desk clerk was explaining to her that, yes, he has a reservation for her, however, was unable to check her in because she had not paid her maintenance fees. I don't know any other details, but sure hope they were able to come to some kind of resolution. Has anyone ever seen anything like this?


Our II reservation was pending until we paid the $30 difference between our estimated M.Fs and our new 2018 fee. We called Hyatt and paid immediately . We only realized it when our points weren't taken after making our reservation.


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## Sapper (Nov 29, 2017)

WalnutBaron said:


> No, but my question would be_* which maintenance fees *_is she in arrears on? If she hasn't paid her 2018 fees yet, then something is wrong because we're still 30+ days away from 2018 and the due date hasn't even arrived yet. If, as is more likely, she hasn't paid her 2017 fees, then she is definitely in arrears and is lucky she even has a reservation still in place. In that case, Hyatt is using its leverage--as it should--to collect on a very old invoice.



I do not know, as I was only privy to the portion of the conversation while we were walking in and taking jackets off. My guess, however, would be 2018 fees because if she were in arrears on the 2017 fees, the reservation should have not been available in the first place. I know if your next years fees are unpaid, you cannot make a reservation with the current years points. I'm wondering if Hyatt is increasing pressure for early payment of the following years fees in order to use the current years reservations. If so, I feel that is a bit unethical on Hyatts part.


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## WalnutBaron (Nov 30, 2017)

Sapper said:


> I do not know, as I was only privy to the portion of the conversation while we were walking in and taking jackets off. My guess, however, would be 2018 fees because if she were in arrears on the 2017 fees, the reservation should have not been available in the first place. I know if your next years fees are unpaid, you cannot make a reservation with the current years points. I'm wondering if Hyatt is increasing pressure for early payment of the following years fees in order to use the current years reservations. If so, I feel that is a bit unethical on Hyatts part.


If you’re right, I completely agree. Fully paid MF on current year contracts for current year usage should absolutely allow an owner to use what they have paid for.


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## sts1732 (Dec 2, 2017)

Could it possibly be that they borrowed points with out paying the next yrs. fee? I don't know never done that before.


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## Sapper (Dec 2, 2017)

Ah, didn't know you could do that. Maybe so.


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## alameda94501 (Dec 20, 2017)

Newer owner here, purchasing on resale at Highlands Inn last year.... Just noticed my property taxes doubled. 

Is this typical??

2017 Highlands Inn, 2bd Wk41

*Item* *Invoiced Amount* 
2017 Maintenance Fees 1224.64 
2017 Reserves 101.17 
2017 Property Taxes 258.38 
2017 Hrc Dues 149.00 
2016 Carmel Area Wastewater 20.74 
*Total Membership Dues* 1,753.93

2018 Highlands Inn, 2bd Wk41

*Item* *Invoiced Amount* 
2018 Maintenance Fees 1235.25 
2018 Reserves 146.02 
2018 Property Taxes 457.40 
2018 Hrc Dues 153.00 
2018 Carmel Area Wastewater 20.74 
*Total Membership Dues* 2,012.41


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## Sapper (Dec 20, 2017)

alameda94501 said:


> Highlands Inn .... Just noticed my property taxes doubled.




Wow, clerical error?

Looks like your reserves went up APX 45% as well.


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## alameda94501 (Dec 20, 2017)

Sapper said:


> Wow, clerical error?
> 
> Looks like your reserves went up APX 45% as well.



No kidding... but TUG kept me abreast of the APX 45%, even as I ignored/filed all the paperwork mailed to me <shame>



WalnutBaron said:


> *Highlands Inn  Carmel, CA*
> *1BR/2BA Premium, Platinum Week 18*
> 
> No invoices have been issued yet, but the proposed 2018 budget calls for a 4% increase in expenses to $1,534.27 per unit and a whopping 44% increase in the reserve to $146.02 per unit. (This may be at least partly in response to the increasing proclivity for wildfire activity in the Santa Cruz Mountains, and corresponding rising costs for property insurance, though that's just a guess.)
> ...


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## alameda94501 (Dec 20, 2017)

While I'm here, I should also say TUG helped me pick up a resale at Arizona too last month:

Hyatt Piñon Pointe 2br Wk42

2018 Maintenance Fees 653.81
2018 Reserves 191.47
2018 Property Taxes 53.79
2018 Hrc Dues 153.00
*Total Membership Dues* 1,052.07

I just noticed my taxes here are less than for @echino (first post).

How are these taxes assessed?  Are they different for each owner?

EDIT:  Just read the 2017 maintenance fee sticky post that indicated it depended on week.  Edited my posts for 2018 fees with week attached.


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## Sapper (Dec 20, 2017)

alameda94501 said:


> No kidding... but TUG kept me abreast of the APX 45%, even as I ignored/filed all the paperwork mailed to me <shame>



I don't mind the reserves going up a little, as theoretically they will be used to properly maintain the property. However, the taxes... Maybe give Hyatt a call and find out what is going on with that.


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## ocjohn (Dec 21, 2017)

This is our first year of ownership for 2 units... when are you all usually billed for maintenance fees?  It's late December and we haven't been billed for High Sierra or Ka'anapali yet.  Thanks.


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## alameda94501 (Dec 21, 2017)

ocjohn said:


> This is our first year of ownership for 2 units... when are you all usually billed for maintenance fees?  It's late December and we haven't been billed for High Sierra or Ka'anapali yet.  Thanks.



Not entirely sure, but judging from @WalnutBaron 's post above, it probably happens after the annual owner's meeting, which is different for the different HOAs/resorts.


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## ivywag (Dec 21, 2017)

High Sierra dues came out in Oct.  I would call them if you have any requests on the wait list.  After the dues are assessed, they won't confirm any requests until the dues are fully paid.


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## gdonnersc1 (Dec 22, 2017)

Ka,anapali just came out.  Ours went up 15.56%


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## WalnutBaron (Dec 22, 2017)

gdonnersc1 said:


> Ka,anapali just came out.  Ours went up 15.56%


That's confiscatory. After all you HKB owners have been through this year, HRC just capped it off with a very large piece of coal in your Christmas stocking.


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## WalnutBaron (Dec 23, 2017)

*Hyatt Highlands Inn*
*Week 18, Unit 439  1BR Premium, Platinum Season 2000 Points*

2018 Maintenance Fee     $1,235.25
2018 Reserves                        146.02
2018 Property Taxes             211.32
2018 HRC Dues                    153.00
2018 Carmel Wastewater      20.74

Total 2018 Fees                 $1,766.33

Total 2017 Fees                 $1,728.39

Change from LY                     37.94

% Change                               +2.2%


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## Kal (Dec 23, 2017)

gdonnersc1 said:


> Ka,anapali just came out.  Ours went up 15.56%


What's the breakdown of the MF?  If the change is due to property taxes, that would be understandable.  However, if it's related to pure operational costs, that would need further explanation.  If the line-item changes are associated with Hyatt management costs, that would seem to indicate Hyatt was previously separately funding the resort costs to artifically keep the MF low for marketing purposes.  Then too it might be related to moving a large inventory out of the HRC program and passing a related segment of costs onto the HRC MF.


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## bogey21 (Dec 23, 2017)

It was fee increases like these that caused me to sell my Marriott Weeks many years ago and buy at carefully selected HOA Controlled Independent Resorts.  Yes, the quality was not Marriott quality but the units were decent and well maintained.  I had 4 Marriott Weeks and ended up with 6 Weeks at Independent Resorts.  

The fees at the Independent Resorts were between 35% and 40% of Marriotts.  In addition I sold my 4 Marriott Weeks for something like $85,000 and paid something like $8,000 for my 6 Independent Resort Weeks.  The moral of this story is unless money is not a consideration, be nimble and be willing to settle for decent but lesser quality Resorts.

George


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## taffy19 (Dec 23, 2017)

Kal said:


> What's the breakdown of the MF?  If the change is due to property taxes, that would be understandable.  However, if it's related to pure operational costs, that would need further explanation.  If the line-item changes are associated with Hyatt management costs, that would seem to indicate Hyatt was previously separately funding the resort costs to artifically keep the MF low for marketing purposes.  Then too it might be related to moving a large inventory out of the HRC program and passing a related segment of costs onto the HRC MF.


I logged in the account and had to change my password to something else.  I do not see a breakdown of our maintenance fee.  I am going to call them because I didn't even get an email that the maintenance fees are due.

Last year we paid $1,448.47 and now the maintenance fee is $1,774.07 that may include the ARDA fee?


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## bluemax (Jan 6, 2018)

Has anyone consolidated the Hyatt maintenance fees as yet into one spreadsheet?


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## Sapper (Jan 6, 2018)

bluemax said:


> Has anyone consolidated the Hyatt maintenance fees as yet into one spreadsheet?



Not that I know of.  I think there was some talk of doing it at one point, but I don't think it was ever done.


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## bdh (Jan 7, 2018)

Sapper said:


> Not that I know of.  I think there was some talk of doing it at one point, but I don't think it was ever done.



If you go to the Sticky named "2017 Hyatt Maintenance Fees", there is a PDF in WalnutBaron's first post.  https://tugbbs.com/forums/index.php?threads/sticky-2017-hyatt-maintenance-fees.258239/

The PDF has MF's for select HRC properties that provides some current and historical info.  It's a start, however needs more HRC owner input here on TUG to provide more properties and MF info (current & historical).


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## Sapper (Jan 7, 2018)

bdh said:


> If you go to the Sticky named "2017 Hyatt Maintenance Fees", there is a PDF in WalnutBaron's first post.  https://tugbbs.com/forums/index.php?threads/sticky-2017-hyatt-maintenance-fees.258239/
> 
> The PDF has MF's for select HRC properties that provides some current and historical info.  It's a start, however needs more HRC owner input here on TUG to provide more properties and MF info (current & historical).



Thanks for the correction!


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## dahntahn (Jan 8, 2018)

Coconut Plantation:  [2018]  For 2BR non lockoff, week 2
Maintenance Fee  $ 980.03
Reserves                241.67
Property Tax           97.44
HRC Dues               153.00
Total                   $ 1472.14


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