# SFX trade power issues



## g4fishing (Sep 21, 2009)

I've had a hard time getting a clear answer from SFX about the differences in trade power or 'pull' of weeks deposited with them.  I'm looking at purchasing a Sedona Springs week and want to know if a prime week there (Easter) would have the same pull as say a summer S. Cal. week.  If there is a difference in trading power how much variance is there at SFX and is it a major consideration when dealing with them?  Any experiences?  

My hope through SFX would be to be able to get say the Manhattan Club looking quite aways out with a six month window.  Is this realistic?


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## DeniseM (Sep 22, 2009)

The problem with SFX is that they have no online presence and all trades are done behind closed doors, so it's all over the place.  A few years ago I deposited my very expensive Maui week, and asked for any resort on Kauai, a year out, and didn't get the exchange...very disappointing...


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## eal (Sep 22, 2009)

I regularly book my Villas of Sedona (sister resort of Sedona Springs) 2-bedroom units for Easter.  I have deposited two with SFX, and gotten exchanges to Grand Timber Lodge in Breckenridge prime summer and to Sloane Gardens in London during spring break. 

The puzzle for me with SFX is that when I get the phone call saying they have a match I can then choose the week to use for the exchange - I am not obligated to use the one that I used for the request.  It is as if all my deposits have equal value.


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## bellesgirl (Sep 22, 2009)

In my experience with SFX, (I did 5 exchanges) it seemed more important to have a relationship with the VC than to have a strong trading power.  If I called or emailed I often got a response to a search that had been going on for a while.  But if I turned down a match because it did not work for me - like one time the check in date was on Xmas day and out on NY day and it was a mediocre resort, so I did not want the exchange - then I would get stonewalled.  When I would call to check on the progress of my search I was told "well.. we already offered you a week and you turned it down".  In the meantime, there were numerous exchange opportunities with RCI for my criteria, which was frustrating.

Like an earlier poster said, everything is behind closed doors so you really have no idea of what is going on.  I decided after I used my last week that they are just too hard to work with.  Many here will disagree.


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## rickandcindy23 (Sep 22, 2009)

Bellesgirl, you have described my experience to a "T".  

I settled for something different from where and when we usually go, just to use our deposit.  This was for our first exchange, and the guides tend to remind me of how ridiculous my past expectations were.  For instance, I told them I wanted a king bed in the master bedroom on Maui, which basically took Kahana Falls out of my search criteria (on purpose), and they keep reminding me how I limited the search by that one thing (my search criteria was for several consecutive months), which is why I didn't get the exchange.  I didn't want Kahana Falls, but any other resort on their list would have been fine for me, and I gave them several months to get me something, and I didn't expect high season for that exchange, but I wanted a 2 bedroom, and those are obviously very rare in SFX inventory. 

Then I had friends who were going to Hawaii for Christmas and were looking for a hotel at a high price, so I called at the last minute, just to see if they happened to have anything, so one guide emailed me recently, telling me how limiting I am in my requests, expecting Christmas at the last minute!   I wasn't EXPECTING Christmas, but I thought if they had it, I would get it for my friends with my deposited week that had produced nothing in my ongoing search.  Ironically, I did get a week for them through a last-minute rental from another exchange company for their exact dates.  

If they had a search feature, you could scan their availability for the next few years and see if there is anything you hadn't thought of trying.  As it is, you have to say to them, "Do you have Nashville or Williamsburg?  Okay, so what about Wisconsin for anytime May-September?  What about any Hawaiian island for 2011? Okay, what about something in San Francisco for any month between February and June."  (SF is one they can do.  I deposited a 2 bedroom Hawaii and I get a 1 bedroom in SF, which was okay by me, since we have relatives there that we haven't visited forever.)  It's not easy to guess what they have that you can use.    

And you are right, there are many people who really love SFX, but so far, my experiences have been so-so to not good, and we have a Platinum membership that is due to expire in a little over 3 years.  Will I renew?  Doubtfully, because my current request has already been given the "doubt it will come through" estimate.  I am asking for something very difficult, so I won't hold it against them, if that particular request doesn't come through.  For a five-year membership, I just wanted five exchanges that I would be thrilled to get.  

RCI and II have usually come through for me, and I have never deposited a 2 bedroom Hawaii Gold Crown week with either of them, ironically, but that is what I deposited with SFX.  I hope for a better experience in the near future.  I want to sing their praises, but so far, I cannot.  

I am VERY WELL AWARE that SFX watches posts on this forum.  I had emails from the "powers that be" from my last tirade on TUG about SFX, the weekend of Labor Day.  I think comments like this might hurt my chances of getting some good exchanges with SFX.  I hate to think it, but I believe it.  Rick thinks I am goofy for joining SFX in the first place, but I had very high expectations, and those have not been met in any way.  

We are definitely getting to the point where buying where we want to go is preferable to exchanging.  I want Maui for two weeks EOY.  We are going in 2012 again to Maui and have 2010 already planned.  So we bought an EOY even oceanfront (literally a stone's throw from the water) Maui week, 2 bedroom, very average resort.  We are thrilled with the purchase, and we are looking forward to some great whale-watching trips in that unit.  I can pay a lot of the maintenance fees with the savings on exchange fees and membership fees to alternate exchange companies.  For Kauai and the Big Island, we have Wyndham points.   I just need to find another oceanfront 2 bedroom for Maui, EOY!  

Now Wyn has a SF resort, too.  I am covering the "buy where you want to go" with those Wyn points.  I am loving those points more and more.


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## esk444 (Sep 22, 2009)

rickandcindy23 said:


> I am VERY WELL AWARE that SFX watches posts on this forum.  I had emails from the "powers that be" from my last tirade on TUG about SFX, the weekend of Labor Day.  I think comments like this might hurt my chances of getting some good exchanges with SFX.  I hate to think it, but I believe it.



It wouldn't surprise me.  In the other timeshare forum, a poster had commented several times that SFX could not match their request for Hawaii, so they had to settle for something in Sedona.  Mark, the SFX representative who posts on that site, posted several very vindicative messages in response slamming that person and including details of her account and details of phone messages.

I was just a lurker thinking about joining SFX and was totally shocked at this unprofessional behaviour.  After reading those messages and the numerous complaints of poor service, I didn't bother.  I can't do business with people I can't trust.


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## bnoble (Sep 22, 2009)

> We are definitely getting to the point where buying where we want to go is preferable to exchanging.


What took you so long?


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## rickandcindy23 (Sep 22, 2009)

bnoble said:


> What took you so long?



I am a slow learner.   What can I say?  

With the recent changes to RCI, I am definitely not getting what I could before.  I can cover some of my needs with RCI Points, too, until RCI ruins that for me.


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## rickandcindy23 (Sep 22, 2009)

esk444 said:


> It wouldn't surprise me.  In the other timeshare forum, a poster had commented several times that SFX could not match their request for Hawaii, so they had to settle for something in Sedona.  Mark, the SFX representative who posts on that site, posted several very vindicative messages in response slamming that person and including details of her account and details of phone messages.
> 
> I was just a lurker thinking about joining SFX and was totally shocked at this unprofessional behaviour.  After reading those messages and the numerous complaints of poor service, I didn't bother.  I can't do business with people I can't trust.



I actually remembered that happening to a Forums member.  I have remained fairly quiet as a result, because I was shocked by the posts over there.  I didn't like getting my email from SFX this last time, after my Labor Day post, nor did I feel good about the resulting phone call from SFX, when my email from them ended up in the junk mail folder (I didn't see it until they called and said they had sent one).  I won't mention names, but needless to say, I worry my exchange requests will be given very little attention.  My platinum membership is turning out to be a very big disappointment.   

I would love to report a great experience, truly I would.  I know teepeeca Tony has gotten great results, and he was actually able to use the bonus weeks to his advantage.  I had one offer of a bonus week, and it was a 1 bedroom in the early ski season (I think it was a week 48) at Christy Lodge in Avon, CO.  I really dislike that resort and had no idea I would even be offered a resort that isn't even in their list of accepted resorts.  I needed a 2 bedroom, and they said a 2 bedroom would be more $$$.  What happened to free upgrades for platinum?  

I was able to get something with RCI Points, 7,500 points, at our home resort in Frisco, for a week 50 for our daughter and son-in-law and their friends.  The net cost was much less than what SFX offered.


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## bnoble (Sep 22, 2009)

> I won't mention names, but needless to say, I worry my exchange requests will be given very little attention.


Intuition says that it would work the other way.  If I were stacking the deck to give some people preferential treatment, I'd probably be working hard to give great exchanges to those who were known to post their strong opinions about both good and bad timeshare-services experiences.


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## PigsDad (Sep 23, 2009)

rickandcindy23 said:


> I had one offer of a bonus week, and it was a 1 bedroom in the early ski season (I think it was a week 48) at Christy Lodge in Avon, CO.  I really dislike that resort and had no idea I would even be offered a resort that isn't even in their list of accepted resorts.  I needed a 2 bedroom, and they said a 2 bedroom would be more $$$.  What happened to free upgrades for platinum?


Actually, if you read it carefully, it does state that the free upgrades are _only _for your exchanged week, not bonus weeks.  But I agree, it was confusing.

For my limited experience with them, I have been pleased.  I have given them one week -- a 1BR HGVC Hawaiian Village prime summer week, which I reserved using 4800 of my 8400 annual HGVC points.  I received two "bonus" weeks, of which we only used one -- 2BR Mayan Palace Riviera Maya Thanksgiving week.  For my exchange week, I got a 2BR January ski week at The Village at Steamboat.

Overall, I was pleased with their service, and would definitely plan to use them again in the future.

Kurt


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## rickandcindy23 (Sep 23, 2009)

Kurt, I am glad you had a great experience with SFX.  It is very good news for those of us who are always hoping for a great exchange.  My deposit of 2008 was a 2 bedroom summer, July week, at Kona Hawaiian Village, and this past deposit was one I was able to get for a discount in points, so I wouldn't lose as much $$.  I deposited a 2 bedroom KHV about six weeks before check-in, but that date was still 8/1.  I suppose a late deposit may get less results.  I don't know what the policy is for late deposits, but I didn't want to throw it away, so I am hoping for something good.  

I have SO MANY weeks that qualify with SFX as deposits, now that I have found TUG and discovered some great resorts to buy.   I just have to decide whether I should take the chance with SFX.  I have Myrtle Beach summer 2 bedrooms (SBP), and I have SDO I can deposit as well.  

With Wyndham, I have to purchase a guest certificate for the exchange, which is annoying but necessary for Wyndham's greedy CEO to be able to afford his private jet.


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## Kola (Sep 23, 2009)

"I was just a lurker thinking about joining SFX and was totally shocked at this unprofessional behaviour. After reading those messages and the numerous complaints of poor service, I didn't bother. I can't do business with people I can't trust."

Agree 100%. "Poor service" is too mild, 'we don't care service' is correct.

Hopeless.


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## post-it (Sep 23, 2009)

I'm so glad I read this posting.  I was also going to deposit my week and give SFX a try.

Not now!


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## barndweller (Sep 23, 2009)

I am a happy SFX user. I have always gotten the exchanges that I have requested and used several bonus weeks as well. I think my success is based on the fact that my requests have been just an area not a specific resort and often more than one area and always with a span of several weeks. I have been willing to take a 1 bedroom since that is the lion's share of deposits. How many of you with lock-offs actually deposit the whole thing? None is my guess. Everyone locks off and splits to make maximum use. I also NEVER request major holidays although I have exchanged in prime season. I currently have a request in for 3 different areas (two requesting specific resorts) and for several different time frames. I am confident that one of these will eventually come through. Knowing which resorts and which areas SFX seems to work with the most helps. They most certainly have a relationship with Manhattan Club and with the Mayan Resorts in Mexico.

The days of finding great exchanges that get a prime 2 bedroom somewhere in exchange for a mediocre studio at Mudflat Acres is long gone. Upgrades from a studio lock-off to a 2 bedroom aren't gonna happen if no one deposits 2 bedroom units and developers are not handing them to II and RCI anymore. Or maybe it's that RCI and II are renting those units. I really don't know. So when people complain that SFX is not transparent I'm not sure what company they are comparing it to. Certainly we no longer have any idea what the Big Guys are doing behind the scenes and trade power has become a complete crap shoot.

The big complaint that got so much attention over on the other forum was a draw in my view. The complainer left out a lot of details about her request and the effort SFX had mad to try to fill her request. 

I will continue to use SFX as well as TPI instead of II and RCI. They offer personal service while all the big guys offer is diminishing return for ever rising prices.


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## falmouth3 (Sep 23, 2009)

barndweller said:


> The big complaint that got so much attention over on the other forum was a draw in my view. The complainer left out a lot of details about her request and the effort SFX had mad to try to fill her request.



I too have always received very courteous and prompt service when I call SFX.  I have gotten the trades that I wanted and requested.

My memory also was that the OP on the other board misrepresented the situation greatly.  Although I don't think it the best approach by making the details public, SFX was trying to set the record straight.  I thought it was impressive that they were able to reconstruct all the ways they tried to please the individual.  SFX said that while they normally wouldn't share details, the individual presented her side of the story publicly, with details, so SFX did the same.

Sue


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## T_R_Oglodyte (Sep 23, 2009)

barndweller said:


> The big complaint that got so much attention over on the other forum was a draw in my view. The complainer left out a lot of details about her request and the effort SFX had mad to try to fill her request.



Yes - the poster essentially trashed SFX, selectively providing information about their request to make SFX look back and omitting other important information.  When SFX provided important missing information then it was alleged that SFX was publishing account information

My take on the matter follows the general principle that when a person makes a decision to take a private dispute public, that person does not then get to decide which information shall be public and which information shall remain private.


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## g4fishing (Sep 23, 2009)

*Talked to Mark*

After I started this thread I contacted Mark at SFX and he gave fairly straight forward answers to my questions.  The resorts are assigned different trade weights that are dependant on their location and the demand for them. I think that this is fair but because it is done behind a closed door it makes it challenging to weigh your trade options.  He did give me an indication of my chances for trading into the Manhattan Club (good, no guarantees)which I appreciated.  RCI has the online info but forget getting the kind of personal contact that Mark provided.  The RCI guides generally know less than I do and just want you to deposit another week or extend your membership.  I'm hoping for good exchanges with SFX but understand that this has not been the case for everyone.


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## g4fishing (Sep 23, 2009)

*Talked to Mark*

duplicate post


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## happymum (Sep 24, 2009)

I have certainly had my differences with SFX in the past, but must say that I have been pleased with recent transactions. San Francisco was always a very difficult trade for me with RCI. SFX seems to have a readily available supply. :whoopie:   I think that they are a good resource for their areas of strength and getting around RCI's 1 in X rules.


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## bnoble (Sep 24, 2009)

> After I started this thread I contacted Mark at SFX and he gave fairly straight forward answers to my questions. The resorts are assigned different trade weights that are dependant on their location and the demand for them.


I wrote this in some other SFX thread, but it seems to me that it is very important to check with Mark before you make a deposit---he seems to be quite open about things.  To his credit, he'll tell you if a deposit wouldn't really have strong demand in their system.


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## esk444 (Sep 24, 2009)

T_R_Oglodyte said:


> Yes - the poster essentially trashed SFX, selectively providing information about their request to make SFX look back and omitting other important information.  When SFX provided important missing information then it was alleged that SFX was publishing account information
> 
> My take on the matter follows the general principle that when a person makes a decision to take a private dispute public, that person does not then get to decide which information shall be public and which information shall remain private.



Here's the thread, so people can make their own decisions on the egregiousness of the complaints by customers and whether the responses by SFX were appropriate (1 current SFX customer, 1 former SFX customer). http://www.timeshareforums.com/forums/ask-sfx/48554-very-disappointed-sfx-service.html

To me, Mark's behaviour in that thread and whoever contacts other TUG members who complains is a method of intimidation (other than to resolve the problems amicably).  In my experience, the businesses that aggressively try to silence their critics, especially semi-anonymous individual customers on a message board, are rarely the companies I like to do business with.


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## John Cummings (Sep 24, 2009)

T_R_Oglodyte said:


> Yes - the poster essentially trashed SFX, selectively providing information about their request to make SFX look back and omitting other important information.  When SFX provided important missing information then it was alleged that SFX was publishing account information
> 
> My take on the matter follows the general principle that when a person makes a decision to take a private dispute public, that person does not then get to decide which information shall be public and which information shall remain private.



I agree 100%. I closely followed the thread.


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## rickandcindy23 (Sep 24, 2009)

A person should be able to complain about a timeshare exchange company without a backlash.  We all complain about RCI, but if we say anything about SFX, not only do you have to worry about having your exchange request being put in the back of the line for posting your disappointments in an open forum, but you have current happy members that act like you are nuts because you aren't happy. 

I am still a skeptical customer, not yet unhappy, just always hoping for the best possible exchanges for my prime summer Hawaii weeks.  I know my deposited 2009 week was deposited late (I didn't get any bonuses), but they had need of that week, according to Elena, who accepted the deposit.  The date was 8/1.  I added a guest certificate within a few days of the deposit, so I know they used that week for a successful exchange.  My 2008 week was deposited WAY in advance, like 9 months, and it was a July 4th week.  I did get Powell Place for March, and that is our 37th anniversary.  I think we will enjoy the area, plus we have relatives in and near SF, and we happen to have need to visit a few while we are there.  Not exciting for me, but Rick is thrilled.  

I broadened my search last night specifically for the purpose of getting a 2 bedroom unit in exchange for my deposited 2 bedroom, and to get Hawaii for 2011.  I will consider depositing another week this  fall sometime, before the deposit bonuses are done.  I won't deposit Hawaii, because it seems to be hard to get Hawaii back.


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## happymum (Sep 24, 2009)

As the OP on that very painful thread, I must confess that I still don't phone SFX  , all transactions have been completed through e-mails !
I have no wish to re-open old wounds, so will not comment further on the thread.
Suffice it to say that I had a remaining deposit with SFX , I deposited another unit to keep that deposit alive, and have since been very pleased with their service.


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## T_R_Oglodyte (Sep 24, 2009)

rickandcindy23 said:


> A person should be able to complain about a timeshare exchange company without a backlash.  We all complain about RCI, but if we say anything about SFX, not only do you have to worry about having your exchange request being put in the back of the line for posting your disappointments in an open forum, but you have current happy members that act like you are nuts because you aren't happy.



I agree, but as soon as a person posts specific details of what did or did not happen then that person has opened the door for a detailed rebuttal by the other party.

If one then chooses to characterize that as backlash, well .....


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## rickandcindy23 (Sep 24, 2009)

T_R_Oglodyte said:


> I agree, but as soon as a person posts specific details of what did or did not happen then that person has opened the door for a detailed rebuttal by the other party.
> 
> If one then chooses to characterize that as backlash, well .....



Steve, I don't think of the word backlash as being all that negative. 

I know that most people have great experiences to report on SFX, and those who don't tend to not say much.  Good experiences are wonderful to share, but there is bad with the good, and if SFX posted specifics of my transactions, it would seem like I am a very difficult person, yet I am not.


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## T_R_Oglodyte (Sep 24, 2009)

rickandcindy23 said:


> A person should be able to complain about a timeshare exchange company without a backlash.





rickandcindy23 said:


> Steve, I don't think of the word backlash as being all that negative.



If backlash isn't all that negative, why are you concerned about getting "backlash" after making a complaint?


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## John Cummings (Sep 25, 2009)

happymum said:


> As the OP on that very painful thread, I must confess that I still don't phone SFX  , all transactions have been completed through e-mails !
> I have no wish to re-open old wounds, so will not comment further on the thread.
> Suffice it to say that I had a remaining deposit with SFX , I deposited another unit to keep that deposit alive, and have since been very pleased with their service.



What you need to do is get the extensions of the agents you want to contact. That gets you past the filter. I deal regularly with a couple of them and dial their extensions directly. Often they are on the phone in which case I leave a message and they always call me back within 24 hours.

I don't know why people keep beating the same old dead horse. SFX's business model is not the same as others. This has been explained by Mark over and over. SFX does not rely strictly on deposits to acquire requested weeks. They have various sources they use. Many of the weeks I have gotten from SFX came from RCI and other sources. They don't carry much inventory and don't want to because they don't want to get stuck with unused weeks. What ones they do not get exchanges for go on their sell off lists. Because they deal with high quality resorts with a high demand, the deposited weeks are typically snapped up immediately. Their business model works very well for me and many others. I don't care how they get the weeks that I request as long as it works and it always has. If it doesn't work for others then they should not use SFX. It is as simple as that. Why do some people complain that they don't work like RCI or others? The fact of the matter is that they don't and if one cannot accept that then they should find some other exchange company. RCI and II did not work for  me which is why I switched to SFX 12 years ago. I am not going to complain about how RCI and II work because I don't use them anymore so it doesn't matter to me.


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## bnoble (Sep 25, 2009)

John Cummings said:


> I don't know why people keep beating the same old dead horse.


I find the threads quite informative---it helps me understand for what (and whom) SFX works, and for what (and whom) it will not.  After all, that's what TUG is all about.

Not everyone will agree with your assessment.  That doesn't mean they should stop posting.


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## John Cummings (Sep 25, 2009)

bnoble said:


> I find the threads quite informative---it helps me understand for what (and whom) SFX works, and for what (and whom) it will not.  After all, that's what TUG is all about.
> 
> Not everyone will agree with your assessment.  That doesn't mean they should stop posting.



I am not talking about the thread. I am talking about people who repeatedly state that SFX does not work like RCI and others. This is obvious and their business model is on their web site. If you go back through this thread, you will see many references to this when it has already been stated that they don't work the same.


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## rickandcindy23 (Sep 25, 2009)

rickandcindy23 said:


> A person should be able to complain about a timeshare exchange company without a backlash.  We all complain about RCI, but if we say anything about SFX, not only do you have to worry about having your exchange request being put in the back of the line for posting your disappointments in an open forum, but you have current happy members that act like you are nuts because you aren't happy.
> 
> I am still a skeptical customer, not yet unhappy, just always hoping for the best possible exchanges for my prime summer Hawaii weeks.  I know my deposited 2009 week was deposited late (I didn't get any bonuses), but they had need of that week, according to Elena, who accepted the deposit.  The date was 8/1.  I added a guest certificate within a few days of the deposit, so I know they used that week for a successful exchange.  My 2008 week was deposited WAY in advance, like 9 months, and it was a July 4th week.  I did get Powell Place for March, and that is our 37th anniversary.  I think we will enjoy the area, plus we have relatives in and near SF, and we happen to have need to visit a few while we are there.  Not exciting for me, but Rick is thrilled.
> 
> I broadened my search last night specifically for the purpose of getting a 2 bedroom unit in exchange for my deposited 2 bedroom, and to get Hawaii for 2011.  I will consider depositing another week this  fall sometime, before the deposit bonuses are done.  I won't deposit Hawaii, because it seems to be hard to get Hawaii back.



This is what I posted, Steve, and the red highlights prove that I am not trying to be unreasonable in my requests.  I am not necessarily worried about a backlash toward me; contrarily, I am hoping to enlighten others as to the process and expectations.  I also informed others of my email and subsequent phone call from SFX after posting, and I know they are watching.  

Maybe I will report a good result of my request, but once again, and I will admit, my search criteria is very limited, my request was a little over six months out (I have been told it is unlikely going to happen), which isn't enough time to have high expectations.  I have been completely honest here, and I dare any SFX employee to challenge what I have posted.  

People use alternate exchange companies because they are/ were disappointed at RCI and II.  I am not necessarily all that disappointed in either.  That is why Rick thought I was nuts for joining SFX.  I had the impression from watching other posters that SFX was superior to the other alternates.  My assumptions have not proven accurate, so far.  I am still fairly neutral on SFX, but I guarantee that at the end of five years, I will know whether they are worthy of the money it costs to be a member.  

I am very impressed with Hawaiian Timeshare Exchange, Trading Places,  and Trading Places Maui.  My best exchanges are always Hawaii and those companies have the inventory I want. 

*I don't have to worry about a backlash at all*.  If SFX doesn't come through with any of my requests over the next five years, entered six months to 18 months in advance of my needs, I will post more strongly against them on TUG.  Assume what you will about that statement.  They can post against me as they please, because I have been 100% honest here.  The SFX poster that challenges what I say needs to identify him/herself as such.


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## bellesgirl (Sep 25, 2009)

John Cummings said:


> What you need to do is get the extensions of the agents you want to contact. That gets you past the filter. I deal regularly with a couple of them and dial their extensions directly. Often they are on the phone in which case I leave a message and they always call me back within 24 hours.
> 
> ....  If it doesn't work for others then they should not use SFX. It is as simple as that. Why do some people complain that they don't work like RCI or others? The fact of the matter is that they don't and if one cannot accept that then they should find some other exchange company. RCI and II did not work for  me which is why I switched to SFX 12 years ago. I am not going to complain about how RCI and II work because I don't use them anymore so it doesn't matter to me.



You have basically validated what I said.  The most important thing at SFX is your relationship with the guides.  

And as far as comparing them to other companies, how are we supposed to know if SFX will work for us if we don't know the pros and cons?  That's what this forum is for... sharing our experiences.


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## bnoble (Sep 25, 2009)

Furthermore, the "whys" SFX is different from, say, RCI, might matter to some.

I understand that you don't feel the objections are relevant, or news, but having never used SFX before, I'm always interested in hearing about individuals' experiences with them.


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## happymum (Sep 25, 2009)

bellesgirl said:


> You have basically validated what I said.  The most important thing at SFX is your relationship with the guides.



I also believe this to be true, but that is difficult  when you are *strongly* discouraged from phoning.


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## bellesgirl (Sep 25, 2009)

When I used SFX, I found emailing worked well, esp. with Scarlet.


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## rickandcindy23 (Sep 25, 2009)

bellesgirl said:


> When I used SFX, I found emailing worked well, esp. with Scarlet.



That's a name I may use!   I have talked to Elena, both at the time of my last deposit, and to talk about my request, and she was very nice.


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## John Cummings (Sep 25, 2009)

bnoble said:


> Furthermore, the "whys" SFX is different from, say, RCI, might matter to some.
> 
> I understand that you don't feel the objections are relevant, or news, but having never used SFX before, I'm always interested in hearing about individuals' experiences with them.



The "whys" they are different is meaningless. They are different because they chose a different business model. RCI is different from II etc. Why they are different is not important. What is important is that you know WHAT the differences are. I have no problem with people's objections at all. That is their perogative. What I have trouble understanding is why some people keep repeating the same thing over and over.

In any event, it is what it is. I have said my piece on this thread and will let it go.


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## DeniseM (Sep 25, 2009)

John - I think it gets repeated, because new members come to TUG and ask, and those of us who have been around awhile, respond.


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## John Cummings (Sep 25, 2009)

DeniseM said:


> John - I think it gets repeated, because new members come to TUG and ask, and those of us who have been around awhile, respond.



I understand that when it is in different threads and new members ask questions etc.. I am talking about some people, who are not new members, repeating their same objections over and over within this thread and others. It doesn't bother me as none of this stuff does. I am just somewhat amazed and amused by it.


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## LarryEdmonton (Sep 26, 2009)

*I am very happy with SFX*

In 3 weeks, we leave for a 3 week Cruise/London holiday and for our week in London - we have SLOAN GARDENS - through SFX.

The last reviewer gave it a 10 plus rating.  And I have had great success with San Diego area, Hawaii and San Fran.

So from me a huge Thumbs Up!


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## AKE (Sep 28, 2009)

I have used SFX for many years and NEVER found them to be abrupt or rude on the phone.  As well, emails are answered politely and promptly.  I think that the lack of fulfilling some trade requests is inventory related as for several years I was able to get a eastern ski week but have had no luck lately.  I called SFX to find out what why and according to them, they don't get many deposits where I am looking (and as they are California-based, ski weeks in Vermont probably aren't that common).  At the same time I got a fantastic trade into Hawaii last week and have been to MC in NYC several times, etc. so no complaints here.  Acording to my experience, the request has to be in early as they match up with the deposits very quickly.


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## esk444 (Sep 29, 2009)

John Cummings said:


> I understand that when it is in different threads and new members ask questions etc.. I am talking about some people, who are not new members, repeating their same objections over and over within this thread and others. It doesn't bother me as none of this stuff does. I am just somewhat amazed and amused by it.



If you look at recent SFX threads, this is the pattern:

1) Newbie asks for experience.
2) 4 or 5 members post how wonderful they are.

However, if you read ALL the threads on SFX, it's much more nuanced and quite honestly breaks toward more negative than positive.  

So if the people who are "repeating their same objections over and over" don't speak up, it's not a balanced discussion.  So the SFX cheerleaders are allowed to post positive experiences, and those with complaints are supposed to be silent?

I wouldn't bother with posting if the cheerleaders would post something like "I really had terrific experiences with SFX, but not everyone has.  Make sure you do some searches on older SFX threads."  

But they don't.  Not that I expect them to, but you if don't you shouldn't expect those with complaints to remain silent.  They are only trying to be helpful and provide more information to members and guests here to make an informed decision.


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## John Cummings (Sep 29, 2009)

esk444 said:


> So if the people who are "repeating their same objections over and over" don't speak up, it's not a balanced discussion.  So the SFX cheerleaders are allowed to post positive experiences, and those with complaints are supposed to be silent?
> 
> I wouldn't bother with posting if the cheerleaders would post something like "I really had terrific experiences with SFX, but not everyone has.  Make sure you do some searches on older SFX threads."
> 
> But they don't.  Not that I expect them to, but you if don't you shouldn't expect those with complaints to remain silent.  They are only trying to be helpful and provide more information to members and guests here to make an informed decision.



You are missing my point. I will repeat it and try to word it so you understand. I have no problem with people complaining about SFX or anything else for that matter. I encourage you to post to your heart's content. I am referring to a few complainers that repeatedly post the same complaint in the same thread over and over. This is after it has been discussed in the same thread. It is like the complainer never read any of the other posts and just repeated the same thing. Some of these people also make accusations or statements that are totally false. As I said, it doesn't bother me at all. I am just amused by it all.

I post only my own experiences with using SFX for the past 12 years. I do this just to provide info and people can take it anyway they like. It doesn't matter to me. Let others post whatever they want. I really don't care what anybody thinks about SFX. RCI, II or whatever. If it works for me then I am happy. If it doesn't work then I try something else. If SFX stops working for me then I will try something different. I did this with RCI when I canceled my membership and I also did it with II after I let my membership expire.

In any event, this isn't adding any meaningful content to this discussion so I will leave this thread alone unless somebody asks a specific question.


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## esk444 (Sep 29, 2009)

John Cummings said:


> You are missing my point. I will repeat it and try to word it so you understand.



Thanks for the repeating your post in language that I can understand.  I always had trouble with that English thing.  

The only posts I see repeated over and over are when posters are challenged by you and others and those posters are trying to repeat their remarks in language YOU can understand.  

As for any Newbies, please search the archives if you want balanced information about SFX.  Obviously, people with less than rosy views towards SFX aren't likely to repeat complaints if they have to go through this gauntlet and intimidation by SFX and their supporters.  

I know I won't, so go ahead and have the last word.


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## rickandcindy23 (Sep 29, 2009)

You just have to figure out WHY some people are so happy, and I believe I figured it out.  Deposit 1 bedrooms, get the free upgrades (when available) with the platinum membership.  This is the KEY to being happy with SFX.    

As for SFX, I think a lesson has been learned for me.  I keep depositing 2 bedroom Gold Crown units on Hawaii (two prime summer weeks), then I expect an equal exchange.  I get a 1 bedroom back, but I get no "refund" when I downgrade my exchange.  

I will no longer deposit a 2 bedroom, I will deposit only 1 bedrooms.  It is apparent to me that this is the way to exploit their system.  If I had deposited a 1 bedroom week at Sheraton Desert Oasis, with MF's of $450 or so, then I would feel good about my bargain exchange to SF, one bedroom.  As it is, I felt I had to ask for something they could give me, when Hawaii 2 bedrooms were not forthcoming.  

My two-bedroom Kona Hawaiian Village costs me more like $1,100 in MF's to deposit well ahead, PLUS Wyndham makes me pay for a guest certificate when I use SFX.  My fees are half of that when I deposit at 60 days or less, plus the guest fee Wyndham charges.  So I won't be as disappointed with our next exchange, because it costs a little more than half of what the original one costs.    

It would be a bargain for us to upgrade our SDO deposit to a 2 bedroom, if one came available. * Oh, wait a minute, a 2 bedroom would be free for us, since we are Platinum.*  What a waste to deposit a 2 bedroom.  Maybe that is why so many people are very happy, while the rest of us who provide those 2 bedrooms are unhappy.  I don't know.  :rofl:


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## happymum (Sep 29, 2009)

John Cummings said:


> You are missing my point. *I* will repeat it and try to word it so you understand. *I* have no problem with people complaining about SFX or anything else for that matter. *I* encourage you to post to your heart's content. *I* am referring to a few complainers that repeatedly post the same complaint in the same thread over and over. This is after it has been discussed in the same thread. It is like the complainer never read any of the other posts and just repeated the same thing. Some of these people also make accusations or statements that are totally false. As *I* said, it doesn't bother me at all. *I* am just amused by it all.
> 
> *I* post only my own experiences with using SFX for the past 12 years. *I *do this just to provide info and people can take it anyway they like. It doesn't matter to me. Let others post whatever they want.* I* really don't care what anybody thinks about SFX. RCI, II or whatever. If it works for *me* then *I* am happy. If it doesn't work then *I* try something else. If SFX stops working for me then *I* will try something different. *I* did this with RCI when *I* canceled my membership and *I* also did it with II after *I *let my membership expire.
> 
> In any event, this isn't adding any meaningful content to this discussion so *I* will leave this thread alone unless somebody asks a specific question.



 Thanks for your input. It's so helpful to know what you think.


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## John Cummings (Sep 29, 2009)

happymum said:


> Thanks for your input. It's so helpful to know what you think.



Well thank you. I am glad that you enjoyed it.


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## AKE (Sep 30, 2009)

I think that people are also happy with SFX because they don`t have any inferior resorts in their inventory.  As such, though their inventory is not as big as RCI or II, what they have in their is top notch so any trade is good, and yes, being able to upgrade from a one to a two bedroom without cost (if one is available) is an added bonus.  I should note that with RCI there is no difference in trading power for me with a 1 versus a 2 bedroom resort anymore - strange!


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## John Cummings (Sep 30, 2009)

AKE said:


> I think that people are also happy with SFX because they don`t have any inferior resorts in their inventory.  As such, though their inventory is not as big as RCI or II, what they have in their is top notch so any trade is good, and yes, being able to upgrade from a one to a two bedroom without cost (if one is available) is an added bonus.  I should note that with RCI there is no difference in trading power for me with a 1 versus a 2 bedroom resort anymore - strange!



One of the other benefits important to us is the ability to go to the same resort or area as often as you want. You don't have the 1 in 4/5 years restrictions common at RCI. We have exchanged into the Grand Mayans 5 times in the past 5 years and exchanged into the HGVC/Flamingo 4 times in one year. In both cases RCI would not allow that. The Grand Mayans are restricted to once every 5 years, and HGVC to once every 4 with RCI.


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## rickandcindy23 (Sep 30, 2009)

AKE said:


> I think that people are also happy with SFX because they don`t have any inferior resorts in their inventory.  As such, though their inventory is not as big as RCI or II, what they have in their is top notch so any trade is good, and yes, being able to upgrade from a one to a two bedroom without cost (if one is available) is an added bonus.  I should note that with RCI there is no difference in trading power for me with a 1 versus a 2 bedroom resort anymore - strange!



So do you take anything they offer?  Any size, any resort in their directory?  I cannot.  First, I have to get 2 bedrooms for our trips, which is why I deposited a 2 bedroom.  That may change at some point, but for now, Mom is 83 and isn't going to sleep in the living room on a sleep sofa, if I can help it.  Second, I can get some of the resorts in their directory with Wyndham points, so those are automatically taken out of my search criteria.  Third, I have stayed in a few of the resorts in their directory and don't consider all of them as "top notch."  I have to narrow the search somewhat.  

If that makes me difficult, then I guess that's what I am.


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## rickandcindy23 (Sep 30, 2009)

John Cummings said:


> One of the other benefits important to us is the ability to go to the same resort or area as often as you want. You don't have the 1 in 4/5 years restrictions common at RCI. We have exchanged into the Grand Mayans 5 times in the past 5 years and exchanged into the HGVC/Flamingo 4 times in one year. In both cases RCI would not allow that. The Grand Mayans are restricted to once every 5 years, and HGVC to once every 4 with RCI.



This is one of the reasons I joined.  I am very hopeful that we will get exchanges through SFX for this reason, primarily.  I want Hiltons in Orlando when I want them.  

I should add that to my search criteria!


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## John Cummings (Sep 30, 2009)

rickandcindy23 said:


> So do you take anything they offer?  Any size, any resort in their directory?  I cannot.  First, I have to get 2 bedrooms for our trips, which is why I deposited a 2 bedroom.  That may change at some point, but for now, Mom is 83 and isn't going to sleep in the living room on a sleep sofa, if I can help it.  Second, I can get some of the resorts in their directory with Wyndham points, so those are automatically taken out of my search criteria.  Third, I have stayed in a few of the resorts in their directory and don't consider all of them as "top notch."  I have to narrow the search somewhat.
> 
> If that makes me difficult, then I guess that's what I am.



I don't understand why you are having such trouble. I almost always ask for a particular resort at a particular location and often a particular week.  We usually only need a 1BR unit as there are usually just the 2 of us. However we have always gotten a 2 BR when we requested it when we had other family members with us. I deposit my Gaslamp Plaza Suites mini suite upper floor. When we had the other one at San Luis Bay Inn, I deposited a 1BR, 2BA Imperial unit.
I don't pay much attention to the directory.


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