# Updated Abound info on MVC website



## kozykritter (Aug 22, 2022)

When you log on now there's a pop-up video from Brian Miller about Abound. Not sure if the video itself is new because I've never watched one before but if you click on the Learn More button on the bottom of the pop-up, there are two written FAQs near the bottom of the screen that have been updated to say that it will be launching in October 2022. Finally some type of official date instead of vague things like late summer or coming weeks!

There is also a pop-up on the reservation search page letting owners know that Westin and Sheraton properties are not currently included and that owners will be notified when they become available for booking.

PS - Vistana owners haven't gotten any information at all, either posted on their website or by email so MVC owners are ahead of the game in that respect.


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## dioxide45 (Aug 22, 2022)

I notice if the system times you out of login, you get a MVW login screen. My username and password don't work here;


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## dioxide45 (Aug 22, 2022)

THere is also a much larger FAQ if you click on the "View All FAQ" button. This one is consistent with what we were expecting, but I know there was some question around it because of the mapping of Vistana Elite 3*, 4* and 5* over to Executive, Presidential and Chairman's.


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## dioxide45 (Aug 22, 2022)

It also looks like all the Vistana points charts have been added to the MVC website.




@StevenTing Can you work your magic on these?


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## dioxide45 (Aug 22, 2022)

It also looks like an additional two month banking window starting in 2023 for Chairman's OBL. Can now bank up to two months prior to the end of their use year. So Oct 31st for Enrolled weeks based points. I wonder if that means they will pull back the ability of Vistana 5* to only bank through Oct 31st instead of Dec 31st?


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## EKniager (Aug 22, 2022)

dioxide45 said:


> It also looks like all the Vistana points charts have been added to the MVC website.
> View attachment 63136
> 
> @StevenTing Can you work your magic on these?



Where on the site? Those resorts aren't on my dropdown list (for points reservations). Thanks.


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## dioxide45 (Aug 22, 2022)

EKniager said:


> Where on the site? Those resorts aren't on my dropdown list (for points reservations). Thanks.


They aren't available for point reservations or in that drop down. THey are available by going to Resources/Helpful Tools and then clicking on the Vacation Club Points Charts tile.


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## ljmiii (Aug 22, 2022)

dioxide45 said:


> They aren't available for point reservations or in that drop down. They are available by going to Resources/Helpful Tools and then clicking on the Vacation Club Points Charts tile.


Thanks for the heads up! It is interesting to see what they will be asking for Princeville...hopefully I'll see availability when I need it.


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## scootr5 (Aug 22, 2022)

kozykritter said:


> When you log on now there's a pop-up video from Brian Miller about Abound.



Several mentions of it being "for all our owners", will be interesting to see how it shakes out for us post-2010 folks.


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## kyaustin (Aug 22, 2022)

dioxide45 said:


> THere is also a much larger FAQ if you click on the "View All FAQ" button. This one is consistent with what we were expecting, but I know there was some question around it because of the mapping of Vistana Elite 3*, 4* and 5* over to Executive, Presidential and Chairman's.
> View attachment 63134


Dioxide, where did you find the “View All FAQ”?  I see the three FAQs below the three tutorial videos, and the videos have a view all videos, but I’m not seeing the same view all FAQ below the three FAQs they show on that page.   Are you on a different page than that?   Thank you!


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## dioxide45 (Aug 22, 2022)

kyaustin said:


> Dioxide, where did you find the “View All FAQ”?  I see the three FAQs below the three tutorial videos, and the videos have a view all videos, but I’m not seeing the same view all FAQ below the three FAQs they show on that page.   Are you on a different page than that?   Thank you!


When watching the Video, you click on the "Lean More" button. Then at the bottom is the FAQ with only three questions, then an additional button;


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## kozykritter (Aug 22, 2022)

dioxide45 said:


> They aren't available for point reservations or in that drop down. THey are available by going to Resources/Helpful Tools and then clicking on the Vacation Club Points Charts tile.


You are such a great detective!


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## kyaustin (Aug 22, 2022)

dioxide45 said:


> When watching the Video, you click on the "Lean More" button. Then at the bottom is the FAQ with only three questions, then an additional button;
> View attachment 63147


It is not there - on an iPad using Safari nor iPhone.  I’ll try my MacBook.  But may be an issue seeing on iOS.


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## dioxide45 (Aug 22, 2022)

kyaustin said:


> It is not there - on an iPad using Safari nor iPhone.  I’ll try my MacBook.  But may be an issue seeing on iOS.


I am on a laptop.


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## kozykritter (Aug 22, 2022)

scootr5 said:


> Several mentions of it being "for all our owners", will be interesting to see how it shakes out for us post-2010 folks.


It doesn't look like anything will change for them based upon this FAQ...still just using II to access:


If an Owner is not enrolled in Abound by Marriott Vacations™, can they still reserve a vacation at Sheraton Vacation Club and Westin Vacation Club resorts?


Unenrolled Marriott Vacation Club week Owners may be able to use a week from their Home Resort to place an internal exchange request through Interval International® for Sheraton Vacation Club or Westin Vacation Club resorts. Owners at Sheraton Vacation Club and Westin Vacation Club Resorts who do not participate in Abound by Marriott Vacations will continue to use the Vistana Signature Network for internal exchange opportunities at Sheraton Vacation Club and Westin Vacation Club resorts.


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## dioxide45 (Aug 22, 2022)

kozykritter said:


> It doesn't look like anything will change for them based upon this FAQ...still just using II to access:
> 
> 
> If an Owner is not enrolled in Abound by Marriott Vacations™, can they still reserve a vacation at Sheraton Vacation Club and Westin Vacation Club resorts?
> ...


So the "Insider" was wrong. Or just that their wording was being defined a little differently. VSN certainly isn't being dismantled.


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## kozykritter (Aug 22, 2022)

dioxide45 said:


> So the "Insider" was wrong. Or just that their wording was being defined a little differently. VSN certainly isn't being dismantled.


Indeed. Likely just moved to a new website for administration. Leaves mandatory resales up in the air again, particularly those not added before the mythical 8/8, if that truly is some cutoff.


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## dioxide45 (Aug 22, 2022)

We still don't see any definition of mandatory resale (unqualified) qualify for Abound other than anecdotal reports here. I think it is fairly safe (say 95%) to say that mandatory owners as of 8/8 will be enrolled in Abound. What about post 8/8 owners? I guess they will still have full access to VSN.


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## kozykritter (Aug 22, 2022)

MVC club dues are going up across the board for 2023 per the Exchange Procedures document:

Exchange Company Dues Effective 2023
- Owner $230, Select $230, Executive $270, Presidential $270, Chairman’s Club $295


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## BigDawgTUG (Aug 22, 2022)

dioxide45 said:


> I notice if the system times you out of login, you get a MVW login screen. My username and password don't work here;
> View attachment 63133


I've been getting this screen on my iPhone for months - not all the time, but about 30% of the time.  I get it after I log in on the normal log in page.  It's very irritating, because I have to hit the back page button several times, wait for it to set up the new page (initial ones are usually blank), before I can move forward again.


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## kyaustin (Aug 22, 2022)

dioxide45 said:


> I am on a laptop.


That's it....I can see the button for more FAQ on my macbook laptop but it's missing on iOS, though the button for more videos is there.


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## jmhpsu93 (Aug 22, 2022)

dioxide45 said:


> It also looks like all the Vistana points charts have been added to the MVC website.
> View attachment 63136
> 
> @StevenTing Can you work your magic on these?


Thanks for finding those, Jeremy.

Good grief, the points needed for the locations where MVC doesn't have a footprint (read:  Mexico) are insane.


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## dioxide45 (Aug 22, 2022)

kozykritter said:


> MVC club dues are going up across the board for 2023 per the Exchange Procedures document:
> 
> Exchange Company Dues Effective 2023
> - Owner $230, Select $230, Executive $270, Presidential $270, Chairman’s Club $295


I guess they don't consider a $15 increase to be significant?


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## dioxide45 (Aug 22, 2022)

dioxide45 said:


> I guess they don't consider a $15 increase to be significant?
> 
> View attachment 63156


For an owner in both VSN and MVC, it will be a savings as long as the VSN fee goes away as promised.


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## robertk2012 (Aug 22, 2022)

Wrong or purposely attempting to mislead?



dioxide45 said:


> So the "Insider" was wrong. Or just that their wording was being defined a little differently. VSN certainly isn't being dismantled.


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## VacationForever (Aug 22, 2022)

I am on a laptop and can view all the FAQ etc. Finally, I am excited over Abound.  Having said that I will still keep using SO bookings.


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## dioxide45 (Aug 22, 2022)

VacationForever said:


> I am on a laptop and can view all the FAQ etc. Finally, I am excited over Abound.  Having said that I will still keep using SO bookings.


I think for us it will depend on the usage. We will have to analyze each reservation we make to be able to determine if one option provides a considerable value over the other to determine which way to go.


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## VacationForever (Aug 22, 2022)

dioxide45 said:


> I think for us it will depend on the usage. We will have to analyze each reservation we make to be able to determine if one option provides a considerable value over the other to determine which way to go.


We usually use SOs to book Thanksgiving period at Kierland or Mission Hills.  Based on Abound charts, SOs and Abound points are a wash for Mission Hills, but Kierland requires more Abound points.  Since we have to elect usage the year before, we would most likely not elect Abound points for flexibility.  We usually have more DC points than we can use, so SOs are a little more useful to us than DC points.  I do agree that decision to elect or not will be based on travel plans and evaluation of value of one over the other.


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## bazzap (Aug 22, 2022)

dioxide45 said:


> I guess they don't consider a $15 increase to be significant?
> 
> View attachment 63156


And as always they never reference the Spain VAT on the Club Dues adding 21% to these numbers.


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## rpluskota (Aug 22, 2022)

I remember reading before that Harborside @ Atlantis and the Westin Riverfront weren’t going to be available in Abound initially….what i don’t remember is why that is the case…..does anyone know?


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## dioxide45 (Aug 22, 2022)

rpluskota said:


> I remember reading before that Harborside @ Atlantis and the Westin Riverfront weren’t going to be available in Abound initially….what i don’t remember is why that is the case…..does anyone know?


Both are third party developers and they have to get them to sign in on the deal.


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## kozykritter (Aug 22, 2022)

rpluskota said:


> I remember reading before that Harborside @ Atlantis and the Westin Riverfront weren’t going to be available in Abound initially….what i don’t remember is why that is the case…..does anyone know?


Yes, it's because both are not fully owned by Vistana. Harborside is a joint venture with another company and Westin Riverfront was built by and is still owned and operated by East West Hospitality. These ownership structures require negotiation on existing agreements before the properties can participate in Abound.


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## JIMinNC (Aug 22, 2022)

I just looked at some of the points charts for the Westin/Sheraton locations that appeal to us the most, and I'm relatively pleased.

The location I'm looking forward to the most is the Westin Los Cabos Resort Villas. We've stayed there before on Westin Promo Packages and their studio units are perfect for us, with washer/dryer, full size refrigerator, two burner cooktop, etc. Points costs are only 2750-3275 for the months we would have the most interest. If we were willing to go in November or early December it's only 1950.

The Sheraton PGA in Port St Lucie looks like it would make a nice golf vacation for only 1050-1325 in prime time for a 1BR. Westin Kierland Villas also could be a nice golf trip for 2900-3400 for 1BR in late winter/early spring or even less (1450-2525) in April or Nov/Dec.

It does look like WKORV and the other two Kaanapali Westins are 700-800 more points per week than MOC Lahaina/Napili Villas for 1BR and 2BR OF. Everything I've heard about those is the units themselves are probably a cut above the MVC units, but in my opinion the Maui Ocean Club location is superior. Not sure we would ever spring for the higher points for the Westins in a 1BR or 2BR. One attractive option for us there though might be an OF Studio for 3550-4125 points, since I think I read the Westin Studios here were similar to the Westin Los Cabos Studios I mentioned above with washer/dryer, big frig, and small cooktop. That might be a great thing to try for a two-week Maui stay - one week at MOC and then a second week in a Westin studio. Could be a way to stretch the Maui vacation without busting the points bank.

Now the key will be - what will availability wind up being at some of these places in 2023, 2024, and beyond?


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## Jayco29D (Aug 22, 2022)

dioxide45 said:


> We still don't see any definition of mandatory resale (unqualified) qualify for Abound other than anecdotal reports here. I think it is fairly safe (say 95%) to say that mandatory owners as of 8/8 will be enrolled in Abound. What about post 8/8 owners? I guess they will still have full access to VSN.



This would be good news but it is not what I have read earlier on Tug. Just curious how you determined that mandatory owners will be enrolled. Do you mean mandatory resale owners?


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## dioxide45 (Aug 22, 2022)

Jayco29D said:


> This would be good news but it is not what I have read earlier on Tug. Just curious how you determined that mandatory owners will be enrolled. Do you mean mandatory resale owners?











						Vistana Update from Marriott Insider
					

Please be aware:  Posts that attack this info will be deleted.  This is not the COVID Forum!  INSIDER:  I read TUG a bit, and just to clarify, Mandatory is no longer a status because VSN is dismantled. Everything is now Abound and therefore what was both mandatory and non mandatory are not in...




					tugbbs.com


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## CPNY (Aug 22, 2022)

dioxide45 said:


> We still don't see any definition of mandatory resale (unqualified) qualify for Abound other than anecdotal reports here. I think it is fairly safe (say 95%) to say that mandatory owners as of 8/8 will be enrolled in Abound. What about post 8/8 owners? I guess they will still have full access to VSN.


So then there will be multiple club fees for owners? Some will pay the new dues and get all of the added benefits associated with new abound club dues and others (post 8/8) will have the old VSN club dues? What’s the point in that? Just leave all resale owners out of abound. I think the insider got a few things wrong. Especially since a lot of the information contradicts their first go around where they guaranteed certain things that are opposite to what they are saying now.


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## JIMinNC (Aug 22, 2022)

Jayco29D said:


> This would be good news but it is not what I have read earlier on Tug. Just curious how you determined that mandatory owners will be enrolled. Do you mean mandatory resale owners?



This is what the just published Abound Exchange Procedures say about VSN member participation. In this paragraph, "Program" means the Abound program, "Network Operator" means the operator of the VSN program, and "Exchange Company" is the MVC Exchange Company that handles all Abound reservations:

_*C. VSN Members. This section only applies to VSN Members. Membership in the Program is not an appurtenance to an Interest. In order for VSN Members to enjoy the benefits of Membership in the Program, the VSN Affiliation Agreement between Network Operator and Exchange Company must be current and the member must be a VSN Member in good standing. VSN Members must comply with all of the terms and conditions of Membership in the Program. During the term of the VSN Affiliation Agreement, VSN Members will have the right to reserve and use the Accommodations, facilities, services, and experiences that are a part of the Program or an Affiliate Program in accordance with these Exchange Procedures. Unless otherwise provided pursuant to the VSN Affiliation Agreement, VSN Members have the right to reserve and use the Accommodations, facilities, services, and experiences that are a part of the Network in accordance with the applicable Vistana Signature Network Rules and Regulations. If a VSN Member desires to use the Accommodations outside Vistana Signature Network or access Special Benefits that may be offered by Exchange Company from time to time, the VSN Member may voluntarily participate in the Program as described in these Exchange Procedures.*_


As I read that, it says as long as you are a VSN Member in good standing, you will *"h*_*ave the right to reserve and use the Accommodations, facilities, services, and experiences that are a part of the Program or an Affiliate Program in accordance with these Exchange Procedures." *_It goes on to say, *"If a VSN Member desires to use the Accommodations outside Vistana Signature Network or access Special Benefits that may be offered by Exchange Company from time to time, the VSN Member may voluntarily participate in the Program as described in these Exchange Procedures." *

So, if a mandatory resale owner is a VSN Member, it sounds like the legal docs don't discriminate between resale and developer bought.


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## kozykritter (Aug 22, 2022)

CPNY said:


> So then there will be multiple club fees for owners? Some will pay the new dues and get all of the added benefits associated with new abound club dues and others (post 8/8) will have the old VSN club dues? What’s the point in that? Just leave all resale owners out of abound. I think the insider got a few things wrong. Especially since a lot of the information contradicts their first go around where they guaranteed certain things that are opposite to what they are saying now.


Everyone in VSN will pay the new combined fee beginning with the 2023 use year. Those that are eligible to participate in Abound will have no extra fees associated with that. This was outline today in the Abound Exchange Procedures 33 page PDF Marriott released today. I posted that document in one of these Vistana forums but I just don't remember where


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## dioxide45 (Aug 22, 2022)

CPNY said:


> So then there will be multiple club fees for owners? Some will pay the new dues and get all of the added benefits associated with new abound club dues and others (post 8/8) will have the old VSN club dues? What’s the point in that? Just leave all resale owners out of abound. I think the insider got a few things wrong. Especially since a lot of the information contradicts their first go around where they guaranteed certain things that are opposite to what they are saying now.


Yeah, it doesn't make a lot of sense. We really need to see information from Vistana about this and be able to see the VSN Rules and Regulations. I suspect they may not exclude post 8/2022 mandatory resales. Otherwise they need to keep a fee structure in place for those. But they do that on the Marriott side today for unenrolled weeks.


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## jabberwocky (Aug 22, 2022)

CPNY said:


> So then there will be multiple club fees for owners? Some will pay the new dues and get all of the added benefits associated with new abound club dues and others (post 8/8) will have the old VSN club dues? What’s the point in that? Just leave all resale owners out of abound. I think the insider got a few things wrong. Especially since a lot of the information contradicts their first go around where they guaranteed certain things that are opposite to what they are saying now.


They could do just one fee to cover both programs, but only allow resale elections to Abound who were in the system prior to whatever date they choose.

Part of me thinks mandatory resales will be eligible for Abound, but I can see them not allowing it too. Time will tell.


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## TUGBrian (Aug 22, 2022)

solid sleuthing here, looking forward to cracking open this egg =)


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## dioxide45 (Aug 22, 2022)

JIMinNC said:


> This is what the just published Abound Exchange Procedures say about VSN member participation. In this paragraph, "Program" means the Abound program, "Network Operator" means the operator of the VSN program, and "Exchange Company" is the MVC Exchange Company that handles all Abound reservations:
> 
> _*C. VSN Members. This section only applies to VSN Members. Membership in the Program is not an appurtenance to an Interest. In order for VSN Members to enjoy the benefits of Membership in the Program, the VSN Affiliation Agreement between Network Operator and Exchange Company must be current and the member must be a VSN Member in good standing. VSN Members must comply with all of the terms and conditions of Membership in the Program. During the term of the VSN Affiliation Agreement, VSN Members will have the right to reserve and use the Accommodations, facilities, services, and experiences that are a part of the Program or an Affiliate Program in accordance with these Exchange Procedures. Unless otherwise provided pursuant to the VSN Affiliation Agreement, VSN Members have the right to reserve and use the Accommodations, facilities, services, and experiences that are a part of the Network in accordance with the applicable Vistana Signature Network Rules and Regulations. If a VSN Member desires to use the Accommodations outside Vistana Signature Network or access Special Benefits that may be offered by Exchange Company from time to time, the VSN Member may voluntarily participate in the Program as described in these Exchange Procedures.*_
> 
> ...


But there is reference to _*Vistana Signature Network Rules and Regulations. * _We don't know what those entail or if they will be amended in a similar way as the MVC Exchange Procedures. They exclude access to certain things today like convert to Bonvoy and convert StarOptions to resort credit for resale (unqualified) weeks. It will be interesting to see if we have some updated Vistana Signature Network Rules and Regulations when Vistana gets around to announcing this thing to owners.


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## kozykritter (Aug 22, 2022)

JIMinNC said:


> This is what the just published Abound Exchange Procedures say about VSN member participation. In this paragraph, "Program" means the Abound program, "Network Operator" means the operator of the VSN program, and "Exchange Company" is the MVC Exchange Company that handles all Abound reservations:
> 
> _*C. VSN Members. This section only applies to VSN Members. Membership in the Program is not an appurtenance to an Interest. In order for VSN Members to enjoy the benefits of Membership in the Program, the VSN Affiliation Agreement between Network Operator and Exchange Company must be current and the member must be a VSN Member in good standing. VSN Members must comply with all of the terms and conditions of Membership in the Program. During the term of the VSN Affiliation Agreement, VSN Members will have the right to reserve and use the Accommodations, facilities, services, and experiences that are a part of the Program or an Affiliate Program in accordance with these Exchange Procedures. Unless otherwise provided pursuant to the VSN Affiliation Agreement, VSN Members have the right to reserve and use the Accommodations, facilities, services, and experiences that are a part of the Network in accordance with the applicable Vistana Signature Network Rules and Regulations. If a VSN Member desires to use the Accommodations outside Vistana Signature Network or access Special Benefits that may be offered by Exchange Company from time to time, the VSN Member may voluntarily participate in the Program as described in these Exchange Procedures.*_
> 
> ...


Actually if you keep reading that document you will see that Marriott lists the type of purchases that can participate in the Exchange and unqualified resales are not included in that list however at the end of that list is an item that says properties Marriott allows in at their own discretion, which hasn't been revealed yet.


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## VacationForever (Aug 22, 2022)

JIMinNC said:


> This is what the just published Abound Exchange Procedures say about VSN member participation. In this paragraph, "Program" means the Abound program, "Network Operator" means the operator of the VSN program, and "Exchange Company" is the MVC Exchange Company that handles all Abound reservations:
> 
> _*C. VSN Members. This section only applies to VSN Members. Membership in the Program is not an appurtenance to an Interest. In order for VSN Members to enjoy the benefits of Membership in the Program, the VSN Affiliation Agreement between Network Operator and Exchange Company must be current and the member must be a VSN Member in good standing. VSN Members must comply with all of the terms and conditions of Membership in the Program. During the term of the VSN Affiliation Agreement, VSN Members will have the right to reserve and use the Accommodations, facilities, services, and experiences that are a part of the Program or an Affiliate Program in accordance with these Exchange Procedures. Unless otherwise provided pursuant to the VSN Affiliation Agreement, VSN Members have the right to reserve and use the Accommodations, facilities, services, and experiences that are a part of the Network in accordance with the applicable Vistana Signature Network Rules and Regulations. If a VSN Member desires to use the Accommodations outside Vistana Signature Network or access Special Benefits that may be offered by Exchange Company from time to time, the VSN Member may voluntarily participate in the Program as described in these Exchange Procedures.*_
> 
> ...


The counter argument is that the verbiage does not exclude future mandatory resale owners from the program.  I am not 100% convinced that existing mandatory resale owners are automatically enrolled into the Abound program.  I also don't think someone buying mandatory resale post 8/8 can have the switch flipped on them that they are now excluded.


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## dioxide45 (Aug 22, 2022)

kozykritter said:


> Actually if you keep reading that document you will see that Marriott lists the type of purchases that can participate in the Exchange and unqualified resales are not included in that list however at the end of that list is an item that says properties Marriott allows in at their own discretion, which hasn't been revealed yet.


I found this also, but I think this is included in old text that related to purchasing resale Beneficial Interests in MVC Destinations Trust. I don't see where is specifically mentioned excluding mandatory VSN resales.


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## JIMinNC (Aug 22, 2022)

dioxide45 said:


> But there is reference to _*Vistana Signature Network Rules and Regulations. * _We don't know what those entail or if they will be amended in a similar way as the MVC Exchange Procedures. They exclude access to certain things today like convert to Bonvoy and convert StarOptions to resort credit for resale (unqualified) weeks. It will be interesting to see if we have some updated Vistana Signature Network Rules and Regulations when Vistana gets around to announcing this thing to owners.



Here is the way I read that all...I think this sentence applies to Abound, since "Program" refers specifically to Abound, and covers "as long as there is a VSN Affiliation Agreement":

_*During the term of the VSN Affiliation Agreement, VSN Members will have the right to reserve and use the Accommodations, facilities, services, and experiences that are a part of the Program or an Affiliate Program in accordance with these Exchange Procedures.*_

As I read it, this next sentence refers just to the current VSN, and is the language that is saying that current VSN Members will still have access to book through VSN using Options if they so choose. The reason I say that is because "Network" refers just to the VSN Network:

*Unless otherwise provided pursuant to the VSN Affiliation Agreement, VSN Members have the right to reserve and use the Accommodations, facilities, services, and experiences that are a part of the Network in accordance with the applicable Vistana Signature Network Rules and Regulations.*

Here are the key definitions:

*Program means the Abound by Marriott Vacations Exchange Program.

Network or VSN means the Vistana Signature Network, the service name given to the variety of exchange and reservation services and vacation and travel benefits currently offered, and the restrictions currently imposed by Network Operator for Network Resorts. The Network is an exchange program offered by Network Operator, an exchange company.*

So, given all that, as I read the references to Vistana Signature Network Rules and Regulations, those rules and regulations in this language only apply to reserving and use of Accommodations that are part of VSN.


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## JIMinNC (Aug 22, 2022)

dioxide45 said:


> I found this also, but I think this is included in old text that related to purchasing resale Beneficial Interests in MVC Destinations Trust. I don't see where is specifically mentioned excluding mandatory VSN resales.



I agree with your reading of that text. I agree that relates to new purchases of new trust interests.


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## dioxide45 (Aug 22, 2022)

JIMinNC said:


> Here is the way I read that all...I think this sentence applies to Abound, since "Program" refers specifically to Abound, and covers "as long as there is a VSN Affiliation Agreement":
> 
> _*During the term of the VSN Affiliation Agreement, VSN Members will have the right to reserve and use the Accommodations, facilities, services, and experiences that are a part of the Program or an Affiliate Program in accordance with these Exchange Procedures.*_
> 
> ...


So given this, it would seem if one is a VSN member, they are an Abound member, regardless of how they own or when they acquired their VSN VOI?


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## kozykritter (Aug 22, 2022)

We are all speculating since we are missing several key facts to know what the truth is but I guess that's the point of these threads, to try and take the crumbs we have and figure things out until they actually tell us the way it is.


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## dioxide45 (Aug 22, 2022)

kozykritter said:


> We are all speculating since we are missing several key facts to know what the truth is but I guess that's the point of these threads, to try and take the crumbs we have and figure things out until they actually tell us the way it is.


If we knew all the answers, we wouldn't have thousands of posts spread across dozens of thread and TUG BBS would be a quieter place in the Vistana and Marriott forums. This is the stuff we live for!


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## JIMinNC (Aug 22, 2022)

dioxide45 said:


> So given this, it would seem if one is a VSN member, they are an Abound member, regardless of how they own or when they acquired their VSN VOI?



That's how I read it, but I'm not a lawyer...and I didn't even stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night...

Also, when I read all that, I don't see how they can exclude post-8/8/2022 mandatory resales as the "insider" on the Vistana Forum said.


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## dioxide45 (Aug 22, 2022)

JIMinNC said:


> That's how I read it, but I'm not a lawyer...and I didn't even stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night...
> 
> Also, when I read all that, I don't see how they can exclude post-8/8/2022 mandatory resales as the "insider" on the Vistana Forum said.


Are there any terms in the MVCD Exchange Procedures that exclude post 6/2010 resale Marriott weeks? Perhaps this is something they can exclude without it being written into the exchange procedures since those exchange procedures only apply once you become a member?


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## JIMinNC (Aug 22, 2022)

dioxide45 said:


> Are there any terms in the MVCD Exchange Procedures that exclude post 6/2010 resale Marriott weeks? Perhaps this is something they can exclude without it being written into the exchange procedures since those exchange procedures only apply once you become a member?



Hmm..don't know. I'll look.


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## JIMinNC (Aug 23, 2022)

dioxide45 said:


> Are there any terms in the MVCD Exchange Procedures that exclude post 6/2010 resale Marriott weeks? Perhaps this is something they can exclude without it being written into the exchange procedures since those exchange procedures only apply once you become a member?





JIMinNC said:


> Hmm..don't know. I'll look.



Just realized I can't look. I'm at our Hilton Head condo for the next week, and my old copies of the MVCD Exchange Procedures are on my desktop computer back in Charlotte, not on my laptop. I looked online and the Exchange Procedures on the Owner Website have already been updated to the new Abound Exchange Procedures.

But just thinking about it, pre-6/2010 there was no real internal exchange program in MVC. It was just II. In the new Exchange Procedures, isn't Paragraph B immediately preceding the paragraph on VSN Members what applies to MVC weeks owners (which is all MVC had - no points program). In that paragraph, it states that to become an "Exchange Member" you must execute an "Enrollment Agreement with Exchange Company." So, MVC can decide who qualifies to execute the Enrollment Agreement - i.e. - post-6/2010 resale owners can't.

*B. Exchange Members. This section only applies to Exchange Members. Membership in the Program is not an appurtenance to Interests. In order to enjoy the benefits of Membership in the Program as an Exchange Member, an owner of an Interest must have either: (i) voluntarily entered into an Enrollment Agreement with Exchange Company, or (ii) be a Member in Good Standing of an Affiliate Program and voluntarily entered into an Enrollment Agreement with such Affiliate Program (other than VSN) which has voluntarily entered into and maintains an Affiliation Agreement with Exchange Company (“Affiliated Member”). Exchange Members must comply with all of the terms and conditions for Membership in the Program. During the term of the Exchange Member’s Enrollment Agreement with Exchange Company and so long as an Exchange Member remains enrolled in the Program, or so long as the Affiliated Member is a member of the Affiliate Program and an Affiliation Agreement between Exchange Company and such Affiliate Program is in effect, Exchange Members will have the right to reserve and use the Accommodations, facilities, services, and experiences that are a part of the Program in accordance with these Exchange Procedures. In addition, an Affiliation Agreement may also require that the Association for a Component execute an Acknowledgment. If an Exchange Member desires to use the Accommodations outside the Exchange Member’s Affiliate Program or access Special Benefits (to the extent offered), from time to time, the Exchange Member may voluntarily participate in the Program described in the Disclosure Guide and these Exchange Procedures.*

By contrast, according to the next paragraph, Paragraph C (that I posted above), VSN Members do not have to execute an Enrollment Agreement. They are automatically enrolled by virtue of the VSN Affiliation Agreement between Network Operator and Exchange Company. In that language, "Network Operator" is defined as:

Network Operator means Vistana Signature Network, Inc., a Delaware corporation, its successors and permitted assigns.

So, it would seem to me, if mandatory post-8/8/2022 were excluded, it would have to somehow be excluded in this document from the blanket enrollment of all VSN Members...but as I said, I'm not a lawyer.


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## wjarcher (Aug 23, 2022)

If they let all mandatory resale in automatically, they will potentially lose some Destination points buyers unless they start to raise ROFR bars. I was listing my floating WKOVRN week on redweek and had been seeing an increase of inquiry recently, and finally decided to take the listing off last week.

Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk


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## dioxide45 (Aug 23, 2022)

wjarcher said:


> If they let all mandatory resale in automatically, they will potentially lose some Destination points buyers unless they start to raise ROFR bars. I was listing my floating WKOVRN week on redweek and had been seeing an increase of inquiry recently, and finally decided to take the listing off last week.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk


It might hurt direct purchases some, but it might also boost resale prices of mandatory resale weeks which would bring them more in line with resale point pricing. If they do somehow allow post 8/2022 mandatory resales to participate in Abound it will be interesting to see what happens to resale pricing of those. I think it is smart to hold off on selling any VSN mandatory VOIs right now.


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## JIMinNC (Aug 23, 2022)

JIMinNC said:


> By contrast, according to the next paragraph, Paragraph C (that I posted above), VSN Members do not have to execute an Enrollment Agreement. They are automatically enrolled by virtue of the VSN Affiliation Agreement between Network Operator and Exchange Company. In that language, "Network Operator" is defined as:
> 
> Network Operator means Vistana Signature Network, Inc., a Delaware corporation, its successors and permitted assigns.
> 
> So, it would seem to me, if mandatory post-8/8/2022 were excluded, it would have to somehow be excluded in this document from the blanket enrollment of all VSN Members...but as I said, I'm not a lawyer.



After I wrote the above, and while I was trying to go to sleep, it dawned on me that perhaps the "VSN Affiliation Agreement between Network Operator and Exchange Company" could contain some language that excludes mandatory post-8/8/2022 weeks from Abound. That might be a legal way to exclude some VSN Members from Abound while retaining their regular VSN privileges. But having said that, I would have thought that differentiation would be reflected in the definition of VSN Member in some fashion to indicate that not all are equal, but it does not appear to be addressed in the definition. In any event, here are the relevant definitions:

*Vistana Signature Network Rules and Regulations means either the Vistana Signature Network Rules and Regulations – Voluntary Members, or the Vistana Signature Network Rules and Regulations – Mandatory Members, as such may be amended by Network Operator from time to time.

VSN Affiliation Agreement means the agreement between Network Operator and Exchange Company whereby the parties have agreed to affiliate their exchange programs and offer certain benefits to their members, subject to the requirements and restrictions set forth in the VSN Affiliation Agreement.

VSN Member means a member of the Vistana Signature Network who is current in all dues, fees and other amounts owed to the Network Operator and is compliant with the applicable Vistana Signature Network Rules and Regulations governing the reservation and use of Units and Network Resort facilities, as promulgated, adopted, or amended from time to time by Network Operator pursuant to the Network Documents.*

Now I can go back to bed...


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## dougp26364 (Aug 23, 2022)

Has anyone noticed that, under helpful tools, the points charts for the ILG resorts have been added?


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## dioxide45 (Aug 23, 2022)

dougp26364 said:


> Has anyone noticed that, under helpful tools, the points charts for the ILG resorts have been added?


Yeah, that was mentioned on one of the threads somewhere. Here is the combined chart;


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## dougp26364 (Aug 23, 2022)

dioxide45 said:


> Yeah, that was mentioned on one of the threads somewhere. Here is the combined chart;



I figured as much. There’s far much info floating around for me to keep up.


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## dioxide45 (Aug 23, 2022)

dougp26364 said:


> I figured as much. There’s far much info floating around for me to keep up.


Common, we fully expect you to read the dozens of pages and hundreds of posts spread across two forums before asking any questions...


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## 1Kflyerguy (Aug 24, 2022)

dioxide45 said:


> Common, we fully expect you to read the dozens of pages and hundreds of posts spread across two forums before asking any questions...


 Only if Tug and vacation planning was my full time job...


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## Jayco29D (Aug 24, 2022)

dioxide45 said:


> It might hurt direct purchases some, but it might also boost resale prices of mandatory resale weeks which would bring them more in line with resale point pricing. If they do somehow allow post 8/2022 mandatory resales to participate in Abound it will be interesting to see what happens to resale pricing of those. I think it is smart to hold off on selling any VSN mandatory VOIs right now.



It is a big surprise that they will allow all mandatory Vistana resales pre-8/9 to enroll in Abound for free. Why would they do this? What is the ulterior motive when they could have made a lot of money with an enrollment fee or the requirement to purchase more points.

What is happening with voluntary Vistana resales? Do they only have the option to use their home resort? They never had SOs right?

What would be a rationale for Marriott to ever allow post 8/9 mandatory resales to enroll for free?


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## dioxide45 (Aug 24, 2022)

Jayco29D said:


> It is a big surprise that they will allow all mandatory Vistana resales pre-8/9 to enroll in Abound for free. Why would they do this? What is the ulterior motive when they could have made a lot of money with an enrollment fee or the requirement to purchase more points.
> 
> What is happening with voluntary Vistana resales? Do they only have the option to use their home resort? They never had SOs right?
> 
> What would be a rationale for Marriott to ever allow post 8/9 mandatory resales to enroll for free?


Perhaps the number of mandatory resales is fairly low and they figured any fee to enroll would be outwigned by the cost to build out system for owners to enroll. It is also possible that they see certain mandatory resorts (HRA, Westin Ka'anapali and Westin Kierland) as valuable enough to try to get into the system. Charging a fee would keep most of those out.

Vistana voluntary are out, unless they bring them in to VSN through some type of enrollment offer.


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## JIMinNC (Aug 24, 2022)

Jayco29D said:


> It is a big surprise that they will allow all mandatory Vistana resales pre-8/9 to enroll in Abound for free. Why would they do this? What is the ulterior motive when they could have made a lot of money with an enrollment fee or the requirement to purchase more points.
> 
> What is happening with voluntary Vistana resales? Do they only have the option to use their home resort? They never had SOs right?
> 
> What would be a rationale for Marriott to ever allow post 8/9 mandatory resales to enroll for free?



In 2010, when the Destination Club was first created, MVC also allowed resale weeks prior to June 20, 2010 to participate without an additional purchase, so in that sense, the decision to allow pre-August 9, 2020 mandatory VSN weeks into Abound is consistent. Yes, modest enrollment fees were charged in 2010, but since they made the decision not to charge this time, allowing pre-8/9/20 mandatory weeks into Abound seems consistent with the 2010 approach. I suspect they will also begin allowing post-8/9/20 weeks and maybe even voluntary weeks to gain enrollment rights with the purchase of a defined number of Club Points just as they do from time to time today for post-6/20/10 MVC weeks.


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## pacman777 (Aug 24, 2022)

Pleasantly surprised that MVC is allowing unauthorized resale mandatory contracts to qualify for Abound (and Elite status to boot). They definitely leaving a lot of money on the table by doing this as now you got a bunch of resale WKV and Maui owners with no incentives to purchase anything from MVC with the drawback of now having too many additional owners with status including Chairmans (it’s not status if everyone has it). Just my resale units alone are going to get me about 50k CP. I’m sure there’s others in my situation to varying degrees of going from Zero Club Points of not even owning a single Marriott timeshare to suddenly having over 100k CP. Thanks MVC! Almost makes up for the shitty IT issues where I haven’t been able to log into my Vistana account for almost a month.


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## wjarcher (Aug 24, 2022)

Marriott need your mandatory weeks to boost up the inventory of the new program to attract new owners. Besides, they can sell points for owners to reach higher owner levels. This is no different than when they allow pre-2010 Marriott legacy weeks to enroll for the destination club.

Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk


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## dioxide45 (Aug 24, 2022)

pacman777 said:


> Pleasantly surprised that MVC is allowing unauthorized resale mandatory contracts to qualify for Abound (and Elite status to boot). They definitely leaving a lot of money on the table by doing this as now you got a bunch of resale WKV and Maui owners with no incentives to purchase anything from MVC with the drawback of now having too many additional owners with status including Chairmans (it’s not status if everyone has it). Just my resale units alone are going to get me about 50k CP. I’m sure there’s others in my situation to varying degrees of going from Zero Club Points of not even owning a single Marriott timeshare to suddenly having over 100k CP. Thanks MVC! Almost makes up for the shitty IT issues where I haven’t been able to log into my Vistana account for almost a month.


I suspect the percentage of owners with Chairman's status will still only be 3-5% of total Abound membership. Realize there are a lot of owers from Vistana that have small ownership and will be at lower levels.


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## dougp26364 (Aug 24, 2022)

wjarcher said:


> Marriott need your mandatory weeks to boost up the inventory of the new program to attract new owners. Besides, they can sell points for owners to reach higher owner levels. This is no different than when they allow pre-2010 Marriott legacy weeks to enroll for the destination club.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk



With the exception that they charged a moderate fee for Marriott deeded weeks owners to join.


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## VacationForever (Aug 24, 2022)

dioxide45 said:


> I suspect the percentage of owners with Chairman's status will still only be 3-5% of total Abound membership. Realize there are a lot of owers from Vistana that have small ownership and will be at lower levels.


Jeremy, will you be at Chairman's Club level with your combined portfolio?  For me, I intend to keep using SOs for Vistana reservations and will not elect Abound Club points.  I have plenty of Abound Club points and have no need for more.  However, I will benefit from the combined portfolio to get to Chairman's Club.


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## dioxide45 (Aug 24, 2022)

VacationForever said:


> Jeremy, will you be at Chairman's Club level with your combined portfolio?  For me, I intend to keep using SOs for Vistana reservations and will not elect Abound Club points.  I have plenty of Abound Club points and have no need for more.  However, I will benefit from the combined portfolio to get to Chairman's Club.


No, this should only push us to Executive. We only own two Marriott weeks worth a little over 4K and 1.5 Vistana weeks (1 annual and 1 EOY) that will get us about 3,500. Of course a sales rep a couple presentations ago said we would be just short of Executive but we could get there if we bought 1,000 Trust Points. He didn't give us hard numbers. He was a liar!


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## TravelTime (Aug 24, 2022)

VacationForever said:


> Jeremy, will you be at Chairman's Club level with your combined portfolio?  For me, I intend to keep using SOs for Vistana reservations and will not elect Abound Club points.  I have plenty of Abound Club points and have no need for more.  However, I will benefit from the combined portfolio to get to Chairman's Club.



Like you, this gets me to Chairman’s Club level. To me, this is an amazing opportunity to get free enrollment and get up to Chairman’s Club level. It still seems too good to be true.

I remember a few years ago when people were saying to buy the low cost mandatory resorts with the lowest cost per SO to get into Maui. I remember thinking that my WKOVRN OF had more value and I calculated it a bit differently than everyone else. I was laughed out of the forum (happens often to me anyway) for my approach. But if all this is true, my WKOVRN OF is only costing 36 cents per club point In MFs. That is the deal of the century.

My husband is still skeptical and wants to be told directly that there will be no enrollment fee.


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## VacationForever (Aug 24, 2022)

TravelTime said:


> Like you, this gets me to Chairman’s Club level. To me, this is an amazing opportunity to get free enrollment and get up to Chairman’s Club level. It still seems too good to be true.
> 
> I remember a few years ago when people were saying to buy the low cost mandatory resorts with the lowest cost per SO to get into Maui. I remember thinking that my WKOVRN OF had more value and I calculated it a bit differently than everyone else. I was laughed out of the forum (happens often to me anyway) for my approach. But if all this is true, my WKOVRN OF is only costing 36 cents per club point In MFs. That is the deal of the century.
> 
> My husband is still skeptical and wants to be told directly that there will be no enrollment fee.


I am glad that it worked out well for you.  Everything that we owned are developer-bought so allowing resale does not affect me.  I do benefit from the combined portfolio ownership level although I will continue to use my ownership as I always have.


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## CPNY (Aug 24, 2022)

TravelTime said:


> Like you, this gets me to Chairman’s Club level. To me, this is an amazing opportunity to get free enrollment and get up to Chairman’s Club level. It still seems too good to be true.
> 
> I remember a few years ago when people were saying to buy the low cost mandatory resorts with the lowest cost per SO to get into Maui. I remember thinking that my WKOVRN OF had more value and I calculated it a bit differently than everyone else. I was laughed out of the forum (happens often to me anyway) for my approach. But if all this is true, my WKOVRN OF is only costing 36 cents per club point In MFs. That is the deal of the century.
> 
> My husband is still skeptical and wants to be told directly that there will be no enrollment fee.


If I wanted WKOVRN OF, I would have don’t exactly what you did…. Buy there! Sure it’s a high MF but you know what you’re getting each year. I would have bought the low MF SO unit if I didn’t care about OF or not.  Turns out you did well in this combined program. Good for you!


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## wjarcher (Aug 25, 2022)

dougp26364 said:


> With the exception that they charged a moderate fee for Marriott deeded weeks owners to join.


Compared with the potential cost of retroing/qualifying, the fee is negligible.  I was not into timeshares until 2019.  Why did Marriott start to offer the free DC enrollment (after watching a video)?  Was it to encourage owners to enroll into DC?


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## dougp26364 (Aug 25, 2022)

wjarcher said:


> Compared with the potential cost of retroing/qualifying, the fee is negligible.  I was not into timeshares until 2019.  Why did Marriott start to offer the free DC enrollment (after watching a video)?  Was it to encourage owners to enroll into DC?



Beats me, but I’d like a refund of my enrollment fee.


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## JIMinNC (Aug 25, 2022)

wjarcher said:


> Compared with the potential cost of retroing/qualifying, the fee is negligible.  I was not into timeshares until 2019.  Why did Marriott start to offer the free DC enrollment (after watching a video)?  Was it to encourage owners to enroll into DC?



Probably to encourage more owners to enroll. At their June Investor Day, they said 40% of their legacy weeks owners still do not use the Points product. Since the majority of their sales (60-70%) come from current owners, I guess they probably figured there was more to gain by getting more people into the points system (and presumably using and liking it) and then selling them more points, than whatever fees they could generate with enrollment fees.


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## jabberwocky (Aug 26, 2022)

JIMinNC said:


> Probably to encourage more owners to enroll. At their June Investor Day, they said 40% of their legacy weeks owners still do not use the Points product. Since the majority of their sales (60-70%) come from current owners, I guess they probably figured there was more to gain by getting more people into the points system (and presumably using and liking it) and then selling them more points, than whatever fees they could generate with enrollment fees.


I imagine there is also some attrition. As weeks are resold on the secondary market they no longer are in the DP system, so they need a way to encourage some inventory to come back. Giving “free” admission to pre-2010 owners is one way to do this.


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## dougp26364 (Aug 26, 2022)

It’s sounding more and more like Abound will be the combined exchange program where MVW owners and ILG owners place their deeed/points into the combined exchange program, and this combined program will have its own rules, like no greater than a 12 month booking window. It’s sounding as if both MVC and ILG owners will have to elect to deposit their eligible weeks/points into the combined exchange pool.

Now, will they be limited to only what’s been deposited in the combined exchange pool or will they be able to see ALL inventory from both programs at 12 months, assuming this is the case?

Honestly, I’ve read so many different angles on this program, almost all originating from owners updates (unreliable at best) that I’ve all but shut down listening to anything new.

I’m speculating now because they’re saying it’s no cost to join. Maybe it’s no cost to join because it’s something BOTH sides need to elect. Perhaps the “new” sales angle directed at ILG owners will be to upgrade to an MVC level and obtain the 13 month booking window for MVC properties (not ILG properties). An ILG owner with enough points for Chairman’s level might be locked out of the 13 month booking window UNLESS they buy a small package of MVC points. Again, just speculating that this could be their sales angle and that angle is directed toward the ILG side. Maybe they think the MVW side is mostly fished out and flat.


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## kozykritter (Aug 26, 2022)

dougp26364 said:


> It’s sounding more and more like Abound will be the combined exchange program where MVW owners and ILG owners place their deeed/points into the combined exchange program, and this combined program will have its own rules, like no greater than a 12 month booking window. It’s sounding as if both MVC and ILG owners will have to elect to deposit their eligible weeks/points into the combined exchange pool.
> 
> Now, will they be limited to only what’s been deposited in the combined exchange pool or will they be able to see ALL inventory from both programs at 12 months, assuming this is the case?
> 
> ...


With all the information they posted this week on MVC and Vistana's website, it seems pretty clear what is happening. The MVC exchange company is being renamed Abound. MVC owners with DP (now called Club Points) will keep doing reservations as they always have except that exchange company (aka Abound) will start to also have Vistana inventory available (after Abound is launched) to book starting no sooner than 12 months ahead of check in. That inventory will be coming from unsold/reacquired Vistana weeks Marriott has conveyed to the trust and from eligible Vistana owners that have elected to receive Club Points for their ownership in any given year. There will be no general access to the remainder of Vistana inventory for MVC owners (except through other established channels like II, direct owner rentals, etc), only what is put into the exchange company (Abound) by owners or Marriott.

Vistana owners that are eligible to participate in Abound are being given full use of the MVC system for any elected Club Points in all the same ways as MVC owners including booking through the exchange company (aka Abound), banking, borrowing, transferring, cruises, tours, etc. Every Vistana ownership will be assigned a Club Point election value and each owner's combined level of points with both Vistana and MVC will be used to apply MVC recognition levels to the Vistana system in lieu of their existing elite level structure, with existing elite members mapped/grandfathered to certain MVC recognition levels regardless of point balances. MVC dual owners of Vistana will also have their recognition level be based upon combined point value between the two programs.


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## JIMinNC (Aug 26, 2022)

dougp26364 said:


> It’s sounding more and more like Abound will be the combined exchange program where MVW owners and ILG owners place their deeed/points into the combined exchange program, and this combined program will have its own rules, like no greater than a 12 month booking window. It’s sounding as if both MVC and ILG owners will have to elect to deposit their eligible weeks/points into the combined exchange pool.
> 
> Now, will they be limited to only what’s been deposited in the combined exchange pool or will they be able to see ALL inventory from both programs at 12 months, assuming this is the case?
> 
> ...



As @kozykritter said, think of Abound as just our old Destination Club rebranded with a new name. Very little changes for us on the MVC side except that at some point in the next few months the reservation system will include some inventory from Vistana (Westin/Sheraton). Just like it is today, that new VSN inventory will be a mix of weeks owned by the MVC/Abound Trust and weeks deposited into the MVC/Abound Exchange from VSN owners who have elected to receive Abound Club Points for their ownership. 

Said another way, going forward, the Trust will contain Marriott, Westin, and Sheraton weeks and Marriott, Westin, and Sheraton owners will all be able to elect for Points and have their ownership made available in the Exchange, just as Marriott owners have been doing for the last 12 years.


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## ndang3 (Aug 26, 2022)

I was told Abound basically replaced the Destination Club platform and all MVC inventory is automatically available in Abound whereas VSN inventory is not unless an owner decides to place into Abound? Is this true/consistent with what others have heard? Also does someone have the combined 2023 MVC and VSN point charts?


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## dioxide45 (Aug 26, 2022)

ndang3 said:


> I was told Abound basically replaced the Destination Club platform and all MVC inventory is automatically available in Abound whereas VSN inventory is not unless an owner decides to place into Abound? Is this true/consistent with what others have heard? Also does someone have the combined 2023 MVC and VSN point charts?


Half true. As for MVC inventory, there is a certain amount of weeks available in the Trust, but most inventory still comes from owners electing points from their weeks. As for Vistana inventory in Abound, the bulk of it will come from owners electing Club Points for their VOIs as there is only a tiny amount (3000) Vistana weeks in the Abound Trust.


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## NYFLTRAVELER (Aug 27, 2022)

I do not see the big deal of this integration.  Other than the handful of Mexico offerings and St. John, most of the Westin/Vistana Resorts are in locations where MVC already has a property (or more)... Who needs 20 locations in Orlando or Palm Springs?


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## ndang3 (Aug 27, 2022)

NYFLTRAVELER said:


> I do not see the big deal of this integration.  Other than the handful of Mexico offerings and St. John, most of the Westin/Vistana Resorts are in locations where MVC already has a property (or more)... Who needs 20 locations in Orlando or Palm Springs?


Probably right… this acquisition was for MVW to increase their customer base quickly. On the Vistana side many are upgrading to gain a higher status and/or for other reasons.


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## frank808 (Aug 27, 2022)

Also all the inventory deposited into II can be used for DC points bookings. Like MVC has been doing for the past 12 years.

Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk


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## TravelTime (Aug 27, 2022)

NYFLTRAVELER said:


> I do not see the big deal of this integration.  Other than the handful of Mexico offerings and St. John, most of the Westin/Vistana Resorts are in locations where MVC already has a property (or more)... Who needs 20 locations in Orlando or Palm Springs?



Agree and I own Vistana and MVC elected and trust points. The Vistana people are all up in arms about this but it may end up hurting MVC people just as much in being able to book the MVC resorts that are already hard to get into. 

Also, MVC grandfathered in mandatory resale weeks equivalent to how they are treating enrolled VOIs. They do not do this with any post-2010 MVC week owners. I had to pay over $20,000 to buy a week and enroll one of my MVC post-2010 weeks. Not that I should complain, I am getting enrollment of my mandatory Vistana week. Finally something nice that MVC is doing! 

The only real negative to the integration for the Vistana side is people with lower status are losing a year of banking.


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## kyaustin (Sep 1, 2022)

I know these emails started blowing up on the Vistana Board yesterday, but I just received my version for the Marriott points ownership.  One bullet point on there I haven't grasped or heard of and understood is the "More Flexibilty....with additional time to choose how to user your Club Points".   What is changing there?


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## Fasttr (Sep 1, 2022)

kyaustin said:


> One bullet point on there I haven't grasped or heard of and understood is the "More Flexibilty....with additional time to choose how to user your Club Points".   What is changing there?


At this link, click on Frequently Asked Question, then click on “Is anything else changing” under Electing and Managing Club Points





						Owners Login | Marriott Vacation Club
					






					owners.marriottvacationclub.com


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## dioxide45 (Sep 1, 2022)

kyaustin said:


> I know these emails started blowing up on the Vistana Board yesterday, but I just received my version for the Marriott points ownership.  One bullet point on there I haven't grasped or heard of and understood is the "More Flexibilty....with additional time to choose how to user your Club Points".   What is changing there?


So for Marriott owners that received this email, when you click on the "Learn More" button at the bottom, does it take you to the Marriott or Vistana owner site? I wonder if mine isn't slightly different given that we own in both systems. Learn More for me goes to the Vistana website and a message that the content couldn't load.


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## Fasttr (Sep 1, 2022)

dioxide45 said:


> So for Marriott owners that received this email, when you click on the "Learn More" button at the bottom, does it take you to the Marriott or Vistana owner site? I wonder if mine isn't slightly different given that we own in both systems. Learn More for me goes to the Vistana website and a message that the content couldn't load.
> 
> View attachment 63953


Takes me to MVC site.


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## kyaustin (Sep 1, 2022)

dioxide45 said:


> So for Marriott owners that received this email, when you click on the "Learn More" button at the bottom, does it take you to the Marriott or Vistana owner site? I wonder if mine isn't slightly different given that we own in both systems. Learn More for me goes to the Vistana website and a message that the content couldn't load.
> 
> View attachment 63953



It takes me to log in to MVC, and I only own Marriott.


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## Pamplemousse (Sep 2, 2022)

Please excuse me if this is already posted in this thread- I skimmed through and didn’t see it.

On the MVC site, use points, interval international there is a new (at least to me) write up that I find it very confusing.

The heading says “Exchanging Vacation Club *Points* through Interval International® via Exchange Partner Resorts”.

But it actually seems to be about weeks exchanges mentioning home resorts and exchanging to other MVC resorts on II-
“Whether you want to visit your home resort during a different season, visit another Marriott Vacation Club resort or vacation at thousands of resorts worldwide, an exchange through our partner Interval International is the way to achieve it. Here's everything you need to know about exchanging.*

And then mentions an exchange fee for an internal exchange (like for unenrolled weeks, but again under the heading of points).
*Internal Exchange*

What: Exchange your week at your home resort for another week at your home resort that's in a different season or year. or exchange during your same week, but travel to another Marriott Vacation Club Resort.
Internal Exchange Fee: $164*
* U.S. fee. All fees are subject to change.
I’m guessing this is a work in progress?


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## Maple Leaf (Sep 2, 2022)

I'm not 100% clear how the other programs will be integrated with the MVC program and I need to understand this better. However, I am curious as to what the availability will be once this is in place for MVC points owners who will be trying to book into harder and much sought after locations such as Aruba ie. Aruba Surf Club, where there will be no Aruba inventory coming from the other programs but additional owners. I hope Aruba and other hard to get MVC resorts do not turn into Los Suenos where it is practically impossible to get.


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## CPNY (Sep 2, 2022)

Maple Leaf said:


> I'm not 100% clear how the other programs will be integrated with the MVC program and I need to understand this better. However, I am curious as to what the availability will be once this is in place for MVC points owners who will be trying to book into harder and much sought after locations such as Aruba Surf Club, where there will be no inventory coming from the other programs but additional owners. I hope Aruba does not turn into Los Suenos where it is practically impossible to get.


I’ve had no issues getting Aruba Surf Club via Interval and I’m a Vistana owner


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## Maple Leaf (Sep 3, 2022)

MVC POINTS owners do not have access to book MVC resorts in II. The only internal exchanges in II for MVC Points owners that I am aware of are the Sheraton/Westin units. So the inventory available there is from an MVC Surf Club weeks owner depositing their week in II and my understanding is that MVC Weeks owners can see the MVC inventory in II and exchange there. Looking at the next 12 months MVC inventory now for a 1 bedroom, OV and the only availability for a 7 day stay at the Surf Club is Aug 27, 2023. For the same unit/view, there is way better availability at Maui Ocean Club or Ko Olina. There's practically nothing in Los Suenos. Hence the reason for my question for the hard to book places where there will be no additional inventory coming for those locations. On the other hand, Orlando or Hawaii _should_ be different with potentially additional inventory becoming available from Westin/Vistana. I still have to understand how the different programs will be integrated though.


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## CPNY (Sep 3, 2022)

Maple Leaf said:


> MVC POINTS owners do not have access to book MVC resorts in II. The only internal exchanges in II for MVC Points owners that I am aware of are the Sheraton/Westin units. So the inventory available there is from an MVC Surf Club weeks owner depositing their week in II and my understanding is that MVC Weeks owners can see the MVC inventory in II and exchange there. Looking at the next 12 months MVC inventory now for a 1 bedroom, OV and the only availability for a 7 day stay at the Surf Club is Aug 27, 2023. For the same unit/view, there is way better availability at Maui Ocean Club or Ko Olina. There's practically nothing in Los Suenos. Hence the reason for my question for the hard to book places where there will be no additional inventory coming for those locations. On the other hand, Orlando or Hawaii _should_ be different with potentially additional inventory becoming available from Westin/Vistana. I still have to understand how the different programs will be integrated though.


Sounds like MVC point owner will no longer have access to Vistana units in interval going forward. That’s a tough one since who knows how the vistana inventory is going to look in Abound for the first year or two


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## DRH90277 (Sep 3, 2022)

It doesn't surprise me that MVC would isolate point use to MVC.  I did talk to Interval yesterday and ask about exchanging week deposits for Disney resorts and they said that was possible.


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## Pamplemousse (Sep 3, 2022)

DRH90277 said:


> It doesn't surprise me that MVC would isolate point use to MVC.  I did talk to Interval yesterday and ask about exchanging week deposits for Disney resorts and they said that was possible.


As long as your MVC week is not at an Orlando resort to a Disney Orlando.  Brand exclusion prevents the week exchange.
You can use MVC points ( or a deposited week derived from points) to exchange to Disney.


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## dioxide45 (Sep 3, 2022)

Pamplemousse said:


> As long as your MVC week is not at an Orlando resort to a Disney Orlando.  Brand exclusion prevents the week exchange.
> You can use MVC points ( or a deposited week derived from points) to exchange to Disney.


When Marriott deposits a week in place of points, does it have an actual resort tied to it?


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## Pamplemousse (Sep 3, 2022)

dioxide45 said:


> When Marriott deposits a week in place of points, does it have an actual resort tied to it?


No, it just says MVC Destinations


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