# Pahio -- sales presentation on Tuesday 5/8



## pattic777 (May 5, 2007)

We're at the Shearwater, and, as ouaifer indicated back in January, the concierge convinced us that a sales presentation is where we can hear about the "Wyndham way" or what they have to offer.  I am hoping that they are not going to just try to sell us more time at Bali Hai because we have no need for that.  I unfortunately have not been taking advantage of TUG over the last few months and have been reading up on Wyndham and PAHIO just in the past few days.

I have a few questions on my piece of paper that I want to ask them about.  Anyone have other questions to which I should try to acquire answers?

Can points ownership be transferred?  (we own RCI points at Ka'Eo Kai and Makai Club Cottages)  Restrictions as to whom?  (relative versus another person)
Is there a ROFR on our ownership?  (all of ours were bought many years ago)
What does it mean that Wyndham bought PAHIO?  Who got money and for what?
It seems to me that there are several pieces that could have been "bought":

unsold units (from David Walters?)
management (front desk, housekeeping, grounds)
sales and marketing
concierge services
What was bought?  How am I, as an owner, supposed to find out about this?​
Are my Ka'Eo Kai and Makai Club Cottage and Shearwater weeks now to become Fairfield?  I don't know a lot about Fairfield -- my experience here on TUG has made me glad I didn't have to understand Fairfield -- if now I do, I'm not going to be a happy camper...
Based on the fact that I am sure they are going to try to sell me something, "What will what you want me to buy give me that I don't already have?"  We own 3 weeks EOY at Shearwater (weeks ownership) which we book 14 months in advance and use in unit 209; our Ka'Eo Kai and Makai Club Cottages are in RCI points which we use to get airfare or to stay at other places in even years.  We are happy with what we have.
I detect  changes in the personnel that don't make me happy.  The concierge went out of her way to say "being bought by Wyndham is GREAT" but with no explanation, which raises my curiousity about why she needed to say that.  She also was careful to explain that the Owner's Coffee was only to hear about updates/maintenance on the property, *not* to ask about the Wyndham changes.  There are two people at the Shearwater clubhouse - one to do activities (Expedia?) and the other for resort help - but neither is "allowed" to do the other's job (though they both, pre-Wyndham, did both jobs) - why?  These just are "feelings", not anything definite, but make me a little cautious.


Are there other questions I should ask?  I've got a couple of weeks here on property to try to find answers.

Patti

p.s. both the Ka'Eo Kai and Shearwater board meetings happen to occur while we are here -- so I may be able to hear/ask things there as well.


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## Lee B (May 5, 2007)

Before Wyndham, PAHIO owners with RCI Points memberships were not able to pass along the RCI points privileges to the next owner, whether your relative or buyer.  So ask whether that has changed.

I expect that an interval owner must volunteer (or pay, probably) to change this original ownership type to anything different.  So you always will have a deeded fee simple interval ownership (recorded in county records) unless you give that up.  They may threaten you with diminished value if you don't fork over money to enhance your status with platinum, titanium or uranium membership in some Fairfield or WorldMark thing that will put money into seller pockets and Wyndham coffers.  Direct ownership in the resort is certainly the best assurance of being able to get back in there.  If you do want wider destination choices, then FF or WM membership may be good.

The reason one kind of seller can't talk about the other one's product is that getting something wrong could lose a sale or unintentionally run afoul of a consumer protection law.  It could also let you have too long to think something over before signing a committment.

Whenever you chat with another visitor, ask what is up.  Maybe this person already heard a presentation.  You can learn something and maybe encourage a recision before it's too late.

Please report back!

Lee

PS:  Sorry, maybe I could have answered more questions.  Wyndham bought the PAHIO business, which included the resort management contracts and the unsold intervals.  Wyndham personnel [I originally wrote PAHIO] will stand for the various owner association board vacancies and likely will win because of high ownership or no opposition.

I don't think they can invoke ROFR if it was not in your original purchase documentation, although they may try it.

The workers there were ordered to tell owners that the change is "great" because if they say anything else they will be fired, if employees, or sent away if contractors (e.g. concierge).  It really may be great, but the first directive is not to trouble the owners and guests with pesky information.  It could get real amusing to ask for specifics of "great," though they probably will clam up, as you observed.  They just don't know what to say to that, so will say go to the presentation for all of the good news.

L


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## california-bighorn (May 5, 2007)

Patti
First I envy you for being in Hawaii. We are owners at Kauai Beach Villas and have been trying to find out the status of building a new pool complex at KBV. If you think about it, would you please ask what's the status on the plans for a new pool and if they will give any indication of the size, etc. of the pool area. 
Thanks much, Marty


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## pattic777 (May 9, 2007)

I thought I would report back on the answers we got.


pattic777 said:


> Can points ownership be transferred?  (we own RCI points at Ka'Eo Kai and Makai Club Cottages)  Restrictions as to whom?  (relative versus another person)



RCI points are not except possibly in a family for a $250 fee (willing them)



> Is there a ROFR on our ownership?  (all of ours were bought many years ago)



Our sales agent called someone more knowledgeable over -- he said, emphatically, that there is no ROFR and it may have been something David Walters did, but is not done now.  (He got a wee bit testy.)



> What does it mean that Wyndham bought PAHIO?  Who got money and for what?
> It seems to me that there are several pieces that could have been "bought":
> 
> unsold units (from David Walters?)
> ...



Marketing and sales, management company, right to new inventory
He also said that they could send out more information but that would be a cost incurred by my maintenance fees.  I told him that the fact that no communication has been done means there is a lot of miscommunication going on (he told me not to believe things on timeshare user groups) -- I said that if we were getting any other communication, maybe I wouldn't feel the need to get my information from a non-associated group.



> Are my Ka'Eo Kai and Makai Club Cottage and Shearwater weeks now to become Fairfield?  I don't know a lot about Fairfield -- my experience here on TUG has made me glad I didn't have to understand Fairfield -- if now I do, I'm not going to be a happy camper...



no, my existing weeks do not go to Fairfield unless I buy in.



> Based on the fact that I am sure they are going to try to sell me something, "What will what you want me to buy give me that I don't already have?"  We own 3 weeks EOY at Shearwater (weeks ownership) which we book 14 months in advance and use in unit 209; our Ka'Eo Kai and Makai Club Cottages are in RCI points which we use to get airfare or to stay at other places in even years.  We are happy with what we have.



Short answer: nothing for me.



> I detect  changes in the personnel that don't make me happy.  The concierge went out of her way to say "being bought by Wyndham is GREAT" but with no explanation, which raises my curiousity about why she needed to say that.  She also was careful to explain that the Owner's Coffee was only to hear about updates/maintenance on the property, *not* to ask about the Wyndham changes.  There are two people at the Shearwater clubhouse - one to do activities (Expedia?) and the other for resort help - but neither is "allowed" to do the other's job (though they both, pre-Wyndham, did both jobs) - why?  These just are "feelings", not anything definite, but make me a little cautious.



This was really the only thing that I felt like the guy took me seriously on (cuz he could go pound on someone else).  Said this should not be happening.

I also asked about the pool at KBV -- the recommendation was to contact Lani Cowie who is the Resort Manager at KBV.

We went to the Owner's Coffee today; not a happy crowd -- not particularly because they are upset about anything other than lack of communication (or that was my opinion).  I told the folks in the sales appointment yesterday that when humans are not communicated with, they assume the worst; the worst may be true, but it would be better to communicate than to say nothing.  The new operations manager for Princeville indicated that they hope to send out a newsletter in a couple of months and to ask for people to provide their email addresses so communication can go out more frequently for a cheaper price.

Gotta go -- the Ka'Eo Kai board meeting is this afternoon -- will see what is said there.

Patti


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## ajsmithtx (May 9, 2007)

Patty

Thanks for the info.  We will be leaving for Hawaii in 40 days.

I don't like the change in "management", and the lack of communication, but after reading the various comments form folks like yourself, it seems to me that we "owners" will be maintaining our status quo.  I don't think there will be any "good deals" unless an owner is willing to dig into their pocket.  It is obvious that some of the deals/events that previous were held at Pahio have been deleted as cost cutting measures.  Either David Walters paid for the events himself or Pahio found a way to provide events to owners/exchangers and pay for them out of the budget.

Now a bigger company has bought out Pahio management and is looking at the bottom line, is also looking to use The Shearwater, KEK, KBVs, and Makai Cottages as a way to entice their FF/Wyndham  owners to Kauai, and of course buy TSs.

I think if we remain calm, and are able to keep eyes open we as owners will be okay.


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## pattic777 (May 9, 2007)

Actually, things like the welcoming leis and the mai-tai party (with alcohol) were supplied by sales and marketing in the past.  The resort operations manager, Fred Mayo, indicated that they will be coming back - again through sales and marketing.  There is an issue that Wyndham is an alcohol free corporation (which I personnally think is a good thing!), but he said that they are hoping to provide mai-tais through some contribution technique.  Members of the staff plan to provide a main dish that they will cook (to provide local flavor).  (He also indicated that the #1 dissatisfier of the owners since he has been here (December 2006) was the loss of welcoming leis and mai-tais at the pot luck party -- #2 was increases in maintenance fees with an accompanying concern that there were maintenance concerns.)

The board meeting had the area director and regional director from Wyndham there.  The area director is from Phoenix, and spoke for a while during the meeting.  I have to admit I am more favorably impressed with Wyndham now than I have been since I first heard about PAHIO selling out.  I can't give you specifics that make me feel better -- a couple of small things that I noted were that we will get some "economies of scale" (my term, not his) in having access to computer systems to be used by the operations staff that we may not have had in the past.  Things like satisfaction tracking, inventory tracking, standard operating procedures.  I can't express why I feel better now, but honestly, I do.

Something that bothers me -- I helped with the vote counting at the meeting -- only 19% of the owners return proxies.  There are a lot of people who just don't care.  By the way -- it was the same percentage last year, so not a difference due to Wyndham purchase.  Maybe this is consistent with the timeshare industry because only 10% is required to make a quorum.

Patti


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## LisaH (May 9, 2007)

Patti,

Thanks for the report. One thing I find interesting (and depressing) was from a letter sent from the current Shearwater Board a month or so ago that the only one running for Board election is David Walters. How could that be? I just became an owner early this year so I didn't have an opportunity to volunteer myself. Are Shearwater owners really that content and indifferent about what's going on and what should be done at our resort? Or was it due the the lack of communications between the Board/resort and owners? I hope I misunderstood the letter...


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## Mary W (May 10, 2007)

Thanks, Patti, for all of the information.  We own several weeks at Shearwater, so we, too, are concerned about what the Wyndham purchase means for us and other owners.   We will be at Shearwater in June and will see what additional information we can get to share with other TUG members.  

Lisa, we also have been concerned for several years about the "rubber stamp" nature of the Shearwater board.  We would love to see the Board solicit the opinions and recommendations of owners and communicate with us more than once a year.   Sharing information via email or an up to date website is doable and is certainly  less expensive than sending out mass mailings.

I hope other owners will consider running for the Board in the future.  My husband actually ran for the Board several years ago; it turned out he was vying for a seat against David Walters and he didn't win.  I think most owners vote for the person whose name they recognize and are leary about voting for someone they don't know.  David Walters had the vision to develop Shearwater; the Board would be strengthened by the addition of new voices.  It would be terrific if there were a large number of owners on the ballot next year!


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## Bill4728 (May 10, 2007)

I have a question.

Before Wyndham, didn't pahio have an internal exchange policy? If so, what was it and what has happened to that?


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## ouaifer (May 10, 2007)

Bill4728 said:


> I have a question.
> 
> Before Wyndham, didn't pahio have an internal exchange policy? If so, what was it and what has happened to that?



Their _internal_ exchange policy...if you would like to call it that, was handled through RCI.  There is/was a special phone number to call RCI and deposit/request.  Apparently Pahio owners were given priority for _internal_ Pahio exchanges.


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## rickandcindy23 (May 10, 2007)

We had the ability to book all PAHIO properties with our weeks before others, so they deposit about 11 months out into RCI and the availability is there.  It has worked well for us.  I don't know if that has changed or not.  I would hope that would continue, otherwise the value of our weeks has suffered considerably.    At least the value to us has suffered, as we did use the priority in the past.


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## pattic777 (May 10, 2007)

Mary W said:


> We will be at Shearwater in June...


If you happen to be on Kauai the week of the Makai Club meeting, you may want to go to it and report back!  I know I would be interested.

BTW, Shearwater meeting is Monday and I'll be going to it as well and will report back if I hear anything additional.



> Sharing information via email or an up to date website is doable and is certainly  less expensive than sending out mass mailings.


I agree -- but I now see the problem with this: if only 19% return their proxies, how are they going to get enough email addresses and people who agree to get their information that way?



> I think most owners vote for the person whose name they recognize and are leary about voting for someone they don't know.


I agree with this as well -- it is unfortunate, because after sitting in the meeting yesterday and hearing the different people talk, I would vote differently now, but I had already turned in my vote, and it wouldn't have made any difference anyway.

Patti


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## Hawaiibarb (May 10, 2007)

*Fairfield policies*

I had hoped that the Pahio owners would be grandfathered in Fairfield, or have something like an internal exchange withtheir resorts.  that would have made it more of a win-win situation.  But they are so bottom-line oriented that, of course, that want money in exchange for that happening......a lot of money.

Regarding Pahio internal exchanges: I did get one with Maui Hill, with whom Pahio had a "sister" relationship.....no exchange fee involved, but I did have to accept a one bedroom for my two bedroom.  And VIP Services has always handled my reservations for any Pahio resorts.  I hope we don't lose them; they are great!


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## ajsmithtx (May 10, 2007)

Hawaiibarb said:


> But they are so bottom-line oriented that, of course, that want money in exchange for that happening......a lot of money.



Barb, you nailed it!


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## Hopster (Jun 14, 2007)

*We went to the pressure sales today 6/14*

We were hounded to go to a presentation. We told them that we were not in any position to buy anything right now and they told us that they will just answer questions about what is going on. Guess what, we were blantantly lied to.

I suggest all owners refuse to go to any presentation while they are here. They give you a supposed "one time" offer to convert to Wyndham points. Also you must buy some additional weeks also or you will never be offered an opportunity to move your package to Wyndham points again in the future. Or if you just want to move over to Windham points system, it will cost 10K for every week that you own.

Also get this-- all members of the Wyndham points system can now book for our home resort 1 month prior to us having access to book them, even if they do not own in our own resort. So some guy in Branson Missouri can book your unit 13 months out and prevent you from getting your own unit in your own resort if you don't pay them the thousands of dollars for every week that you own.

We were also shown the new slick looking 3 bedroom units in Bali Hai. We asked if all units were going to be upgraded to this standard when the time comes. We were told only if everyone moves over to the Wyndham points system. So are the Pahio owners that don't upgrade going to get stuck in the ratty units and never get upgraded like the Ka Eo Kai Phase 2 units?

The presentation was like a blackmail session- Either you upgrade to our system, or you will probably never be able to get access to your resort in the near future. Because everyone else who buys a timeshare from them in the future anywhere in the world from now on will get to reserve the resort before you will. And as soon as you see the presentation the offer is removed and never be offered again. Unless you pay them $1500.00, and they will extend the offer for 18 months longer.

This can't be legal-


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## bigeyes1 (Jun 14, 2007)

We are Shearwater owners.  We all know Shearwater is a small resort.  I would be HIGHLY upset if some non-owner was able to get into our home resort and we couldn't.  Talk about ruffling some feathers.  :annoyed: 

We just put in our 2008 reservation 14 months in advance.  In two months, I'll find out if our reservation has been granted or not. Let me say, if it doesn't get approved, this gal will be asking A LOT of questions.  

Surely, Wyndham can't do this.  We have no desire to buy another week nor convert into Wyndham points.  We plan on staying at our home resort.  If we're going to have problems getting into our own home resort, then what's the point of owning there??  

Me not happy..


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## Jya-Ning (Jun 14, 2007)

Hopster said:


> Also get this-- all members of the Wyndham points system can now book for our home resort 1 month prior to us having access to book them, even if they do not own in our own resort. So some guy in Branson Missouri can book your unit 13 months out and prevent you from getting your own unit in your own resort if you don't pay them the thousands of dollars for every week that you own.



That does not sounds right.  The only way anyone can reserve from 11 month to 13 month is the one owns the resort in Fairfield.  The only way a Branson Owner can make 13 month reservation is buy into the new units.  And I believe convert week owner has upto 10 month to make reservation.

However, I am pretty sure they will seperate the new units with the fix and floating units.  The floating owners that don't converted will not get to the new units.



Hopster said:


> We were also shown the new slick looking 3 bedroom units in Bali Hai. We asked if all units were going to be upgraded to this standard when the time comes. We were told only if everyone moves over to the Wyndham points system. So are the Pahio owners that don't upgrade going to get stuck in the ratty units and never get upgraded like the Ka Eo Kai Phase 2 units?
> 
> The presentation was like a blackmail session- Either you upgrade to our system, or you will probably never be able to get access to your resort in the near future. Because everyone else who buys a timeshare from them in the future anywhere in the world from now on will get to reserve the resort before you will. And as soon as you see the presentation the offer is removed and never be offered again. Unless you pay them $1500.00, and they will extend the offer for 18 months longer.
> 
> This can't be legal-



That does not right either.  It really depends on who control the HOA.  I believe every local government require HOA be turned over to owner when it sold out at a certain % (say 90%).  In this case, HOA can say who will be the manage company, and if they want to remodel it.  Some of the owner will converted anyway.  But if these are the FF I know, I don't think they are able to upgrade your resort in a economic way, may as well change manage company that can get the job done in a timely fashion way.

Jya-Ning


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## rifleman69 (Jun 15, 2007)

Hopster said:


> We were also shown the new slick looking 3 bedroom units in Bali Hai. We asked if all units were going to be upgraded to this standard when the time comes. We were told only if everyone moves over to the Wyndham points system. So are the Pahio owners that don't upgrade going to get stuck in the ratty units and never get upgraded like the Ka Eo Kai Phase 2 units?




I have no problem with some of the units never getting updated to the Ali'i levels, being as they are being sold at premium prices (even before Wyndham got involved).   But it is complete B.S. if someone who doesn't own any week at all in the PAHIO system to be able to reserve units before any owner can.


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## pattic777 (Jun 15, 2007)

What I understood was that Pahio owners who convert will get the extra month of selection time.  And, the guy from Branson will only have access to weeks of owners who convert.

I am hoping against hope that Shearwater owners "just say no" and don't convert.  I told the marketing guy who got called over that I was going to be very upset if my 14 month advance email got put behind someone else who got to select 13 months out.  He pointed out to me that I didn't "own" the unit that I asked for and that there has never been a guarantee that I would get 3-weeks in unit 209 (which is what we generally request).  I agreed to that (that I have had to move my request weeks at times, or take 311 or 304 or 303 instead), but asked if it would get to a point where Wyndham owners could book all the good units before me -- I didn't get a clear answer, but... I actually am not too worried.  bigeyes -- I think you and I are in the minority who actually plan 14 months in advance.

Patti


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## Robnsunny (Jun 15, 2007)

The earliest a non Pahio owner could reserve would be at 11 months using a VIP ARP reservation. Only owners at a particular resort can reserve at 13 months.

Only units wich the owners have converted to points (or unsold inventory converted by Wyndham) is available to other points owners at all.

I don't think you need worry about the salesman's misinformation.


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## Hopster (Jun 15, 2007)

I am just telling you what Ed - their leading sales guy told us (ranked #4 in sales in their system- as he told us many times). We own 3 weeks in all the Princeville Pahio resorts. That would have put us over 1 million wyndham points per year and placed us at the Platinum or highest level. An owner at ANY resort at that point level or higher (which there are over 9000 of them at the moment) can reserve ANY resort 13 months out, at an unlimited basis. I had him clarify this because it just did not seem correct.

There are 2 lower point levels packages - The medium one allows you to do the 13 month reservation 4 times a year and the lower one allows 2 times a year. 

I then said that it appears that if I do not pay you the money, that every year it will be more difficult to reserve at my own resort. And he said my assumption was correct. 

What gets me is that converting existing owners is just the matter of typing our information into a database. When I asked why this is costing money to convert, they told me because the purchase of the property cost Wyndham alot of money. Gee - ya think? So are the existing owners helping to offset the costs? We got the same answer when we asked why are they getting $50K per unit (now multiply that out for #units/building) every year for maintenance fees. 

Also those of you coming in, you will notice a change in the personnel working here. Alot less smiling faces, and more eye roll expressions when you ask people questions or god forbid actually do their job. If this is going to be anything like the service at Wyndham Hotels, this will become just another cash siphon where they do just the minimum necessary and just go thru the motions. I am sure glad that ALL the employees got their pay doubled when Wyndham took over, makes me feel warm a fuzzy knowing that I am paying them more for their snotty service.


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## rickandcindy23 (Jun 15, 2007)

Good job, Hopster, we were told the same.  The salespeople came right out and told us we would likely not get into Shearwater when we wanted or in the units we wanted because so many others would be ahead of us.


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## Bill4728 (Jun 15, 2007)

Robnsunny said:


> Only units wich the owners have converted to points (or unsold inventory converted by Wyndham) is available to other points owners at all.



This is the key information of this thread. 

FF owners should only have access to units which have been converted. So if there are 100 units (5000 intervals) but only 10 units (500 intervals) have converted,then only those 10 units can be reserved by FF owners. ALL other units should be kept open for exclusive use by PAHIO owners. ( this is how it is suppose to work but the weasles at FF may try to makeup new rules )


PS Pahio owners may wish to find out what happened to peppertree and equivest owners at those resorts when FF took over.


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## Hopster (Jun 15, 2007)

The thing with that Bill is how can they possibly distinguish which units every week are Pahio or FF? Being that everyone has flex weeks how do  (or can) they determine that we should have "X" amount of Pahio Only units?

For instance next week I am supposed to move the Shearwater and I own on the second level. They say nothing above the ground level is available. We made requests 12 months out, 6 months out, 3 months out , 1 week out, and this week for a second level or higher since we were owners. How can it be that we cannot get at least what we purchased? How can it be that people trading in are getting higher units ? All you get is "we will try" replys and a click of the phone. Who is getting all the priority handling and why?

The scheduling system will need to be posted on the internet for all to see what is going on. Either there is favortism going on, or there are totally inept people working the reservations area that just had their wages doubled.


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## pattic777 (Jun 15, 2007)

I was told years ago that the "second level" or "middle level" units were the hardest for owners to get what they wanted because there are only 7 units (versus 10 for garden and 11 penthouse).  Actually -- I was told that when there were only 3 middle units because building 3 was not yet built.

If you started trying 12 months ago, then that was before the transfer to Wyndham, so I don't think you can put this specific situation at their door.

We don't always get exactly the unit we want, or exactly the weeks we want, but we have a range of weeks and units that we want, and we have always get within that; but I email on the 1st day of the 14th month before our check-in date (the reminders start on my email a week before).  Even at that, sometimes one of those pesky east coast owners gets their email sent before I send mine!

If you are on-island, go to the Ka'Eo Kai desk early on your check-in day -- we did this for a friend who was coming during our last stay in May.  We were able to get the unit she wanted when we checked her in at a little after 11am (it was after church - we may have been able to get it earlier).

Patti


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## Robnsunny (Jun 15, 2007)

Hopster said:


> I am just telling you what Ed - their leading sales guy told us (ranked #4 in sales in their system- as he told us many times). We own 3 weeks in all the Princeville Pahio resorts. That would have put us over 1 million wyndham points per year and placed us at the Platinum or highest level. An owner at ANY resort at that point level or higher (which there are over 9000 of them at the moment) can reserve ANY resort 13 months out, at an unlimited basis. I had him clarify this because it just did not seem correct.
> 
> There are 2 lower point levels packages - The medium one allows you to do the 13 month reservation 4 times a year and the lower one allows 2 times a year.



Your top salesman is not giving you correct info. VIP ARP is at 11 months, not 13. Owner ARP is at 13. Owners always get first shot at their resort. 

Problems getting room assignments are more likely due to the change in management than the points system itself. I don't think any Pahio is showing up yet for points reservations. There haven't been enough conversions. Do you have an owner controled POA? They can have a lot of control over management. Fairfield has never been great at service. The name change doesn't seem to be improving it any. 

If 52 owners each convert a week, I believe they will put 1 unit a week into the points system. I don't see any other way they could do it.


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## bigeyes1 (Jun 15, 2007)

pattic777 said:


> We don't always get exactly the unit we want, or exactly the weeks we want, but we have a range of weeks and units that we want, and we have always get within that; but I email on the 1st day of the 14th month before our check-in date.
> Patti



Thus far, we've always gotten the exact week we've wanted when we put in our request.  Plus, we've always gotten an unit upgrade, too.  We own Garden view and have gotten lanai units. We would have gotten penthouse unit one time, but had to cancel at the last minute.  

Anyway, I operate just like Patti.  I always put in my request the 1st day of the 14th month.  Lets see how well it goes this time around.  

I'm going to agree with Hopster on the staff.  I have already noticed a difference.  After THREE emails (counting my reservation request), I never received a response from them.  They usually send an email that evening or the very next day to acknowledge my reservation request.  

Oh no.  Not this time around.  I ended up having to call them, which is a joke because I never get a live person.  I always get a recording now and have to leave a message. After a few days worth of messages, we finally got in touch with one another.  

Would you believe they had to look and see if they could find my emails??  Sure enough, they did.  Where it went and what they did with it during this timeframe, I have no idea.  But she did send me a confirmation of my request as soon as I got off the phone with her.  

Yep.. They've definitely changed. Not for the better, either.


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## LisaH (Jun 15, 2007)

This is the first year that I tried the 14 months request. I requested a week starting June 30th next year. Should I be contacted by now regarding the confirmation? If not, when should I be contacted or when would I receive the confirmation?


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## bigeyes1 (Jun 15, 2007)

Lisa,

This is what PAHIO sent me via email.



> Your request will be filed in the order received and processed at 12 months.
> 
> Written confirmation will be mailed to you.  If you do not receive confirmation within 14 business days, please contact VIP Services by e-mail at vipservices@wyndhamvo.com or Toll Free at 1-866-523-8477.



Hope this helps.


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## LisaH (Jun 15, 2007)

bigeyes1 said:


> Lisa,
> 
> This is what PAHIO sent me via email.
> 
> Hope this helps.



I received something similar. I guess the reservation should be made on June 1st. Not quite 14 business days yet but close. Time to give them a call tomorrow.

This year, I have yet to reach a live person with my phone calls. Always answered by a voice mail...I guess that's the new Wyndham way of customer service


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## ajsmithtx (Jun 15, 2007)

We made our request for Jun 08 in April 07, 14 months out, per our owners manual.  I called at the beginning of Jun 07 and was told that our Jun 08 request was confirmed.  Call, at the 12 month, do not wait for the "e-mail".  I will be requesting a written confirmation when we arrive at The Shearwater next week.

As for the salesman stating that Wyndam "non-owners" will be ahead of Shearwater owners, if someone tells me that while we are at The Shearwater, I will be pointing what is stated in the owners manual, and telling them they will be sued if they want to mess around with the system that we signed up for back in the day.

Sounds like the Wyndam salespeople are trying to intimidate, Pahio owners.

Pahio owners, get involved in your HOA!


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## rickandcindy23 (Jun 15, 2007)

Tony, on a brighter note, have a wonderful time at Shearwater this next week!  I will be thinking of you with your beautiful lanai view the whole time.   

You need to attend the sales presentation, Tony, and stand up to their constant lies.  Ask for Carlos and keep the name Jerry in mind, too, as he is the "closer" guy.  Tell Carlos that Rick and Cindy rescinded because of his untruths.  

Or you can forget about the sales presentation and just enjoy the lanai.


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## ajsmithtx (Jun 15, 2007)

rickandcindy23 said:


> Or you can forget about the sales presentation and just enjoy the lanai.



Cindy, thanks. That is what we will be doing.:whoopie:


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## taffy19 (Jun 15, 2007)

rickandcindy23 said:


> Good job, Hopster, we were told the same. The salespeople came right out and told us we would likely not get into Shearwater when we wanted or in the units we wanted because so many others would be ahead of us.


Boy, do I like week-based timeshares even more after reading all this and fixed time and a fixed unit sounds even more attractive to me now. You still can make exchanges to any resort any time but you will lose what you have (fixed week, fixed unit with a particular view). I prefer the way it was but I know that I am in the minority. Nobody can change our fate ever or charge us more money for what we bought many years ago!


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## bigeyes1 (Jun 15, 2007)

Hiya Tony!!  

Have a wonderful time at Shearwater..  I don't think we'll be going to anymore presentations.  I, personally, don't want to become all flustered and bothered with all the changes Wyndham is doing to our beloved PAHIO.  

Btw, how do we become involved with the HOA?  I'm certainly all ears (and mouth when it comes time to voice my opinions)..  

Cindy, surely this isn't the same Carlos we had the pleasure of meeting during our sales presentation. This was before our Shearwater purchase during the PAHIO days. He was such an honest, delightful and distinguished looking man.  I told him upfront I knew how timeshares worked and he didn't try to pull any punches with us.  Everything he said was 100% accurate. 

If this is the same gentleman, how sad, because he didn't use to be like that.   I think Wyndham brainwashed their sales agents....  Hey, what else could it be?


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## rickandcindy23 (Jun 15, 2007)

Carlos is not very versed in the Wyndham system, is my guess.  He told us that we could change our PIC weeks whenever we wanted, which was a lie, as we found out that same night.  But he may not have known.  Anyway, he should have asked if he didn't know something.   

He was also the one that told us we would not get any more prime weeks at Shearwater, or prime units because those would be taken by Fairshare Plus owners of the "Platinum level," way ahead of our reservation window.  They would reserve all the best for Fairshare Plus owners, as this was to be a Wyndham resort.  We would also not get the Ali'i units at Bali Hai either, even though we own one of the three bedroom penthouses that we bought via resale.  Buying Fairshare Plus seemed our only option.  I didn't know any better, until people like Jya-Ning and Mike H. told us that our deeds are safe.  

He was a very nice man, we liked him.  He is a proud father of kids aged from toddler to a few that are married with kids of their own.


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## ajsmithtx (Jun 16, 2007)

bigeyes1 said:


> Hiya Tony!!
> 
> Have a wonderful time at Shearwater..  I don't think we'll be going to anymore presentations.  I, personally, don't want to become all flustered and bothered with all the changes Wyndham is doing to our beloved PAHIO.
> 
> ...



Hey Trish

We will not be attending any presentations over at Bali Hai.  It is obvious on what is going to be stated.  As Cindy stated below, our deeds are safe,and the Wyndham folks need to stop trying to intimidate Pahio owners.

As for the HOA, the first involvement is to vote.  Then we need to get in touch with the individuals who lead our HOA, and let them know our feelings.


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## bigeyes1 (Jun 16, 2007)

I'm almost positive we're not talking about the same Carlos.  The one I'm referring to is in his mid 50's.  Doesn't strike me the type to have a toddler now.  

It sounds like Wyndham is behind all these lies.  Buy a week or convert into points or else.  As I've said before, we refuse to do, either.   At one point, we were considering converting into RCI Points.  But I got so upset when I heard the amount they were charging to convert.  I wanted to know why it costed so much when RCI (at that time) only charged $199.  I also wanted to know where was the other portion of the money going.  They never could answer me, so I dropped that thought like a hot potato.  Glad we didn't pursue it.

Thanks, but we'll just stick with being a weeks members.  Not sure if this is a unique thing or not, but our Shearwater week is a "fixed w/ float option week".  Meaning, it's a fixed week unless we choose to float our week for a different timeframe.  Kind of like the best of both worlds.  Don't want to mess that up.  

Now Wyndham.. different story.  Sounds like they are trying to do everything in their power to mess with PAHIO owners.


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## taffy19 (Jun 16, 2007)

rickandcindy23 said:


> Carlos is not very versed in the Wyndham system, is my guess. He told us that we could change our PIC weeks whenever we wanted, which was a lie, as we found out that same night. But he may not have known. Anyway, he should have asked if he didn't know something.
> 
> He was also the one that told us we would not get any more prime weeks at Shearwater, or prime units because those would be taken by Fairshare Plus owners of the "Platinum level," way ahead of our reservation window. They would reserve all the best for Fairshare Plus owners, as this was to be a Wyndham resort. We would also not get the Ali'i units at Bali Hai either, even though we own one of the three bedroom penthouses that we bought via resale. Buying Fairshare Plus seemed our only option. I didn't know any better, until people like Jya-Ning and Mike H. told us that our deeds are safe.
> 
> He was a very nice man, we liked him. He is a proud father of kids aged from toddler to a few that are married with kids of their own.


Cindy, if your deeds are safe, don't ever give them up. They cannot take it away from you as much as they would like to unless you don't like to stay there and want to exchange mainly. That's a different ballpark and since most people buy for exchanging, they can take advantage of you. JMHO.


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## bigeyes1 (Jun 16, 2007)

ajsmithtx said:


> As for the HOA, the first involvement is to vote.  Then we need to get in touch with the individuals who lead our HOA, and let them know our feelings.



Oh, believe me.  We've voted every single year.  Wasn't the last one a joke?  Only one name on the ballot..  

Anyway, throughout the years, I have contacted several people voicing my disapproval on a few "issues". I don't feel like I'm getting anywhere. They simply won't answer my questions.  Ex:  the conversion fees..  

 I did try to email and call Lynn McCrory (sp?) several times.  They all went unanswered.  Guess I'm not "talking" to the right people.


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## ajsmithtx (Jun 16, 2007)

bigeyes1 said:


> Oh, believe me.  We've voted every single year.  Wasn't the last one a joke?  Only one name on the ballot..



I am not trying to make an excuse, but when I saw Mr Walters as the only name on the ballot, it made me think that the terms are staggered.  

If I am wrong, please someone correct me.


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## rickandcindy23 (Jun 16, 2007)

Trish, I think it was the same Carlos.  He has been there a number of years.  He has an accent, attractive and is about 50.  We are 52 and he sure looked about our age.  He has a little boy, probably 3, and his wife brought him up to meet us.  Nice guy, but he is a timeshare salesperson.   

Anyway, he was trying to convince us that even though we own at Shearwater, we will not have priority over Platinum.  

The conversion deal is not as bad as you might think, if you own units already.  The $18,100 was an EOY Bali Hai two bedroom of 154,000 points per year, so add our owned weeks and Platinum would have been easy.  There are benefits to it, but Wyndham takes away benefits on a whim, so who knows if Platinum will remain impressive.  

If the meeting was to inform, then I would say to go.  But it is very high pressure and you have to decide whether you want to put yourself through it.


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## rickandcindy23 (Jun 16, 2007)

ajsmithtx said:


> I am not trying to make an excuse, but when I saw Mr Walters as the only name on the ballot, it made me think that the terms are staggered.
> 
> If I am wrong, please someone correct me.



I don't get David Walters' involvement at the management level any more.  As a developer, you would think he was just building units, but he is pretending to have ROFR on the older units, which is annoying, and he seems to think there is a separation between PAHIO and Wyndham, but there is no such thing.  There is only one management company and it isn't PAHIO. 

I am worried that Shearwater units are not going to get updates very soon, if David Walters is in charge of that.  He is busy getting those Bali Hai units available for Fairshare Plus owners.  Also, the older Bali Hai units need some work, too.  Our friends stayed in building 2 and thought the place was atrocious compared to the Ali'i units.


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## bigeyes1 (Jun 16, 2007)

My... Aren't we all in a chatty mood.   

Tony, when I saw only Mr. Walters name on the ballot.  I thought, "Uh oh. Only one person now.  That's not good".  Maybe they were afraid of all the changes Wyndham was/is doing and didn't approve.  Who knows.  

OMG!! That has to be the same Carlos then.  "Ours' had an accent and has been a timeshare salesman for a while.  He has grayish brown hair and has reading glasses.  I had to laugh because he needed his glasses a lot, but kept putting them back in the case.  I'm saddened.  

Since we plan on using our EOY week at Shearwater, we see no sense in converting our week into anything.  Just can't stand the thought of giving them more money.


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## bigeyes1 (Jun 16, 2007)

When was the last time Shearwater units have been renovated?  The last two times we've been there, our units looked a bit tired and dated.  It worries me they are concentrating on Bali Hai and not any of the other resorts.  I'm sure KEK needs a renovation, too.  

I don't understand David Walters' involvement, either.  How can he exercise the ROFR's now?


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## rickandcindy23 (Jun 16, 2007)

Rick is on duty at the firehouse tonight, so I am bored.   

I admit I have some minor regrets about rescinding.  We sent the rescission letter on our final night on Oahu.  I guess I was upset by a lot of things they said and did, which all added up to distrust.  They made us promises that we were not sure they would keep.  They also phoned ahead at Wyndham's Waikiki Beach Walk and told them we could not attend the timeshare tour there.  I thought that was underhanded.   What if they offered us a better deal for conversion?  That could have been in our favor, but they took it from us.


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## LisaH (Jun 16, 2007)

bigeyes1 said:


> My... Aren't we all in a chatty mood.



Yes you guys are certainly chatty tonight 
We'll be at Shearwater the week of July 6th. I'll walk over to the office and get my confirmation if it does not arrive before, but in any case, I'll call them tomorrow.

One of us should try to get on the ballot for next HOA election!!!

Tony, have a great time on Kauai!!!


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## bigeyes1 (Jun 16, 2007)

LisaH said:


> Yes you guys are certainly chatty tonight
> We'll be at Shearwater the week of July 6th. I'll walk over to the office and get my confirmation if it does not arrive before, but in any case, I'll call them tomorrow.
> 
> One of us should try to get on the ballot for next HOA election!!!
> ...




 I wish we would do more talking in our Yahoo group, but everyone is so quiet there.  I love talking to other owners.  

Lisa,  you have a good time, too.  Wish we were going back to Shearwater this year.   

So, who wants to be on the ballot next year?


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## rickandcindy23 (Jun 16, 2007)

No one noticed my update on the ROFR thread.  I posted the good news that we are now the proud owners of an every year one bedroom at Bali Hai.   

We are pretty happy about it and got it for a great price.  It is closing with Timeshare Transfer as we speak, well I guess they are in bed! 

Anyway, it took over two months for David Walters to let it go through and we reimbursed for maintenance fees, so using the week will be tough, especially if it takes three or four months to close from here.   RCI is going to give us bad trade power.


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## rickandcindy23 (Jun 16, 2007)

Last minute Hawaii is pretty impressive tonight, considering it is summer.  RCI sure has the sightings late at night.  There is even a Kahana Falls two bedroom.


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## LisaH (Jun 16, 2007)

Cindy, Congratulations!!!

BTW, have you sold your Shearwater yet?


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## rickandcindy23 (Jun 16, 2007)

No, we haven't sold it.  I am willing to wait a while, anyway!


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## pattic777 (Jun 16, 2007)

*How to get involved*

A couple things I picked up while at the HOA meetings in May:

You can get the contact information for the members of the board.  I am trying to recall whom you can get them from, but the statement was made that they had to give out contact information for members of the board.
One of the board members of Ka'Eo Kai, Don Armbruster, is also an owner at Shearwater.  He was in the audience of the Shearwater meeting.  He asked a question about whether owners could get contact information for other owners -- that had evidently come up to the board -- he wanted to make sure that we could NOT.  He wanted control over what we are told and hear.  I spoke up and said that I wanted the option to "opt in" to get information from other sources -- I pointed out that there is a lot of conflicting information out and about from seemingly "official" sources -- you hear one thing from the board, another from sales and marketing (there had already been a story about a salesman committing to Mrs. Armbruster that Shearwater would put in elevators -- what???) -- there was nervous laughter at that point, another thing from the concierges, another thing from VIP services.  I said that I was interested in being in contact with other owners and would appreciate if they did not make that decision for me.  I think it fell on deaf ears, but there were others in the room nodding.
By the way, I mentioned earlier in this thread that there was a person I voted for in the Ka'Eo Kai vote that I won't ever vote for again... you may be able to guess who that is from my comments.  I think most owners, me included, will vote to keep the incumbents in place as long as we are relatively happy with what is going on.  

There was a relatively young woman on the board of Shearwater who had just been elected last year.  Other than her, all the other board members seemed to be a "good-ole-boys" club whose sole purpose was to laugh at all of David Walters' jokes.  I think we should try to get in touch with her and find out how she was elected and what her opinion of the board is.  After the public meeting of the board, they evidently adjourn and have a private meeting at a conference room at the Princeville Hotel.  There is much about that whole process that I did not understand - it seemed like they brought up and discussed the points listed on the agenda, but they never voted on anything -- votes must happen in the closed door session.


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## mishugana (Jun 16, 2007)

iconnections said:


> Cindy, if your deeds are safe, don't ever give them up. They cannot take it away from you as much as they would like to unless you don't like to stay there and want to exchange mainly. That's a different ballpark and since most people buy for exchanging, they can take advantage of you. JMHO.



next time cindy tell them if they want the units so much pay  ME 10000 and ill convert to points


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## ajsmithtx (Jun 16, 2007)

Pattic777

Thanks for the great info.


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## Hopster (Jun 16, 2007)

Prior to coming to Pahio this time, I was one of the owners that threw the ballots out. (I feel like I'm in an AA meeting). My name is Rob and I'm a ballot tosser  

I figured that I new little about the timeshare process and voting for something or for people I new nothing about would do more harm than good. Every time I used my units, everything was incredible. I saw alot of wear developing, but for the most part it was still my favorite place to be. Now it looks like greed is taking this special place away from my family.

Maybe we need a grass roots effort to get owners contact info (email addresses) on our own. I imagine that all the owners are listed somewhere in the County building in Lihue, and maybe just those of us that use this BBS can slowly add members that we encounter when we come to the properties.

I can create a website with forums just for Pahio owners *if there is interest* in that, with all the contact info and have it passworded so that the information is controlled. 

On another note- why does the board get a meeting room at the Princeville Resort. Would that not be expensive? I imagine they get their meeting catered also. Isn't the office space with lockable doors good enough on the property already?


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## rickandcindy23 (Jun 16, 2007)

We do have a Yahoo Group for owners, called Ohana Online.  I can see about getting you an invitation.  Most of the owners are already on TUG.  It is not used much, but it is a start.  The moderator seems a bit slow in reacting to spam.  Perhaps the moderator does not want the job anymore and you can take over?  That would be great, but we don't want to step on any toes.


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## ouaifer (Jun 16, 2007)

Hopster said:


> ....
> Maybe we need a grass roots effort to get owners contact info (email addresses) on our own. I imagine that all the owners are listed somewhere in the County building in Lihue, and maybe just those of us that use this BBS can slowly add members that we encounter when we come to the properties.
> 
> I can create a website with forums just for Pahio owners *if there is interest* in that, with all the contact info and have it passworded so that the information is controlled.
> ...




Did you happen to notice this Thread that I posted this Spring?  Silvia was promoting this e-mail list/information during the owners' meetings.  She is not formulating the list...another owner is...if you want to be included, please send me your contact information, and I will pass it along.  I hesitate to openly post his personal infomation on the internet.  Many owners have already contacted me and I have forwarded their contact information.


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## Hopster (Jun 16, 2007)

No I have not seen it. I only found out about these forums a couple days ago from another owner. I will send you my info-- thanks.


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## rifleman69 (Jun 16, 2007)

rickandcindy23 said:


> We do have a Yahoo Group for owners, called Ohana Online.  I can see about getting you an invitation.  Most of the owners are already on TUG.  It is not used much, but it is a start.  The moderator seems a bit slow in reacting to spam.  Perhaps the moderator does not want the job anymore and you can take over?  That would be great, but we don't want to step on any toes.





I'd also like to join up with the yahoo group Cindy, would love to be able to talk to other Pahio owners about the shady dealings Wyndham is currently engaging in.


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## LisaH (Jun 16, 2007)

I would like to get an invitation to the Yahoo group as well. Thanks!


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## dhutson (Jun 16, 2007)

I would also like to be part of the yahoo group. 

Thanks, 

Dee Ann


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## ajsmithtx (Jun 17, 2007)

Hopster said:


> Maybe we need a grass roots effort to get owners contact info (email addresses) on our own. I imagine that all the owners are listed somewhere in the County building in Lihue, and maybe just those of us that use this BBS can slowly add members that we encounter when we come to the properties.
> 
> I can create a website with forums just for Pahio owners *if there is interest* in that, with all the contact info and have it passworded so that the information is controlled.



I think this would be a good idea.  In the past the Ohana forum was being monitored by Pahio.


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## bigeyes1 (Jun 17, 2007)

Boy, did I miss out on a lot of conversation.  I wasn't getting any email notifications of new posts.   

First of all, Congratulations, Cindy, for passing the ROFR on your EY Bali Hai.  As someone said, (was it you??), I think they are trying to bluff and bully their way with this ROFR.  In our contract, (and believe me, both my DH and I read it from top to bottom, side to side) and couldn't find any wording whatsoever about the ROFR.  Legally, I don't think they could exercise this right on our week since there isn't anything indicating this in our contract. 

Moving along.  Thank you, Patti777, for the wonderful source of information.  Like you, I WANT to be contacted by other owners should the need arise.  I'm glad you stood up for the owners who beg to differ from Mr. Armbruster's opinion. 

Evie (ouaifer), I didn't notice this thread, either.  Or maybe I did, but since I own at Shearwater, bypassed it because it was for "KEK owners only"?  Having said that, I would certainly be interested in this, hoping they could expand this information to owners at all of the PAHIO resorts.  I'll PM you with my info. Thanks for letting us know about this.  

Yes, we do have a PAHIO Yahoo Group.  And YES, it is being monitored.  I've been contacted several times by those who have "higher power" than thou.     I'm very verbal and don't tend to hold back my feelings, esp. in the Yahoo Group.  I guess that is why I've been contacted.  

As I said earlier, this Yahoo Group is quiet.  Not much talk has been going on lately.  For those of you who wants to join this monitored group, this link should take you there..  Remember, it is by invitation only.  

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Ohana_Online/


Aloha, everyone.


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## rifleman69 (Jun 18, 2007)

Would like to say thanks to everyone here, applied and obtained access to the group on Saturday.   Hopefully everyone else at least signed up to join the group, the more owners we can get going, the better WE can make our little piece of Kauai.


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## DaveNV (Jun 18, 2007)

I'm curious whether this Pahio/Wyndham uproar involves all the resorts, or mainly Shearwater?  I just bought at KBV, and other than the questions about the new swimming pool, things seem pretty quiet over there.  Am I missing something?  But then, I'm a weeks owner, not yet involved in points.  From the sound of things, I don't know if points would work out for me.  The stress you folks are going through would really get in the way for me.

I'd like to join the Yahoo group, too, if it is possible.  Thanks.

Dave


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## rickandcindy23 (Jun 18, 2007)

This is about the sales presentation for Wyndham.  I am sure you will be invited to the Wyndham sales pitch as some point.  Lucky you.


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## LisaH (Jun 18, 2007)

Called this morning and I actually got through to a live person without leaving a message! We are confirmed for unit 211 for next July 4th week. Yeah!!! I hope that unit has a nice ocean view.


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## ajsmithtx (Jun 18, 2007)

LisaH said:


> Called this morning and I actually got through to a live person without leaving a message! We are confirmed for unit 211 for next July 4th week. Yeah!!! I hope that unit has a nice ocean view.



Oh, yeah!!


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## bigeyes1 (Jun 18, 2007)

LisaH said:


> Called this morning and I actually got through to a live person without leaving a message! We are confirmed for unit 211 for next July 4th week. Yeah!!! I hope that unit has a nice ocean view.



Well, that's a shocker.    Glad you were able to reach a live person.  

We stayed in Unit 212.  Click on the link below and you'll see the views from this unit..  

http://share.shutterfly.com/action/welcome?sid=9AatGTRk0aM4S&notag=1


As you can see, we had a good view of the ocean.  I think you'll be happy with Unit # 211.  Congrats!!


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## LisaH (Jun 18, 2007)

Wow! What a view!!! Thanks for sharing!



bigeyes1 said:


> Well, that's a shocker.    Glad you were able to reach a live person.
> 
> We stayed in Unit 212.  Click on the link below and you'll see the views from this unit..
> 
> ...


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## slabeaume (Jun 21, 2007)

jeepguynw said:


> I'm curious whether this Pahio/Wyndham uproar involves all the resorts, or mainly Shearwater?  I just bought at KBV, and other than the questions about the new swimming pool, things seem pretty quiet over there.  Am I missing something?  But then, I'm a weeks owner, not yet involved in points.  From the sound of things, I don't know if points would work out for me.  The stress you folks are going through would really get in the way for me.
> 
> I'd like to join the Yahoo group, too, if it is possible.  Thanks.
> 
> Dave




There seems to be 2 "points" conversations----RCI points and Wyndham points.  They are very different.    But if you plan on just going back to KBV all the time, weeks is great.  We also own at KBV and love it.


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## slabeaume (Jun 21, 2007)

california-bighorn said:


> Patti
> First I envy you for being in Hawaii. We are owners at Kauai Beach Villas and have been trying to find out the status of building a new pool complex at KBV. If you think about it, would you please ask what's the status on the plans for a new pool and if they will give any indication of the size, etc. of the pool area.
> Thanks much, Marty



We were there in March and asked about the pool plans for KBV at the owners meeting.  We were assured that it's still going on and that permits are taking a long time.  She also said the pool contractor is the same one doing the new big resort in Kapaa (if I understood correctly) and that they couldn't do any construction until they were done building that pool area.  We did see the "plans" for the new pool----it should be really nice.  It is suppose to include the old pool area and the part of the lagoon on the pool side of the western most bridge.  It's suppose to be sort of bean shaped and have a sand bottom at one end (as I recall)  It's also suppose to have a waterfall in it and a couple hot tubs.  They said it would be similar to the one at BAli Hai.  We went and checked out the BAli Hai pool and it was nice.  hopefully KBV will get going on it and have it done by our next trip (Feb. 2008), although I'm certainly not holding my breath!   We actually even enjoy the pool and jacuzzi they have now---it's always been clean (the pool) and never been crowded ( when we're there).    The jacuzzi was down for a little while the last time we were there, but when it works, it works very well and has never been too crowded.


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## slabeaume (Jun 21, 2007)

We went to the timeshare presentation in Feb.  I thought I commented on it in a thread sometime in March.  We had attended the owners meeting first and were told that non-Wyndham owners will have their units separate from the Wyndham owners.  So Wyndham club owners couldn't get all the units.  Seems to me that the timeshare presenters are told to hard sale even if they have to lie to get as many units converted to Wyndham as they can so Wyndham has some units.  I believe KBV has been sold out for awhile, so the only way they can get into there is if any KBV owners convert to Wyndham.  We didn't.  We were also told at the owners meeting that if us non-Wyndham Pahio owners exchanged our weeks (or RCI points) into RCI, those units would go to RCI exchangers, not Wyndham owners.  WE were also told that Wyndham owners have their own pool of units to pull from depending on how many Wyndham Pahio units are there.  So all new construction goes to Wyndham Pahio, but old construction will be dependant on how many convert to Wyndham.   If all this is true, I don't see that availability should change that much for non-converters ---I hope.


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## rickandcindy23 (Jun 21, 2007)

What big new resort is going in at Kapa'a?  I only knew about the Westin in Princeville.


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## slabeaume (Jun 21, 2007)

The one right across the street from the SAfeway mall area.  I think it's actually done now.  Can't remember the name of it.


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## pattic777 (Jun 21, 2007)

I think they are 100% ownership units:
http://www.waipoulibeachresort.com/frames.php?p=./resort.php
I think it is right across from the Safeway shopping center.  I know they are building a big place there -- and I think this was it.


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## slabeaume (Jun 22, 2007)

pattic777 said:


> I think they are 100% ownership units:
> http://www.waipoulibeachresort.com/frames.php?p=./resort.php
> I think it is right across from the Safeway shopping center.  I know they are building a big place there -- and I think this was it.




That's the place I was thinking they told me.  I didn't think they were typical timeshares, but I didn't remember what they called them.  Sounds like what the Hilton did with the units next to Pahio KBV.   They sell the whole unit, then rent it out for the owners.  Does anyone actually live in the waipouli beach resort full time?


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## billhall (Jun 22, 2007)

Thanks for all the info in this thread. We just left Shearwater yesterday and had PattiC's favorite unit 209 for the last week. We arrived late last Thursday so the Shearwater office was closed but my wife and her family received the welcoming Lei's the next morning. We were scheduled to go to the Sales presentation but had a conflict in the end (the Hindu Temple tours were that day).  I wasn't sure I wanted to sit thru any pressure or misleading statements in a Sales presentation anyways. I know I should have rescheduled it, if only to hear what the current spiel is...


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## ajsmithtx (Jun 23, 2007)

*Pahio, etc., etc.*



Hopster said:


> Maybe we need a grass roots effort to get owners contact info (email addresses) on our own. I imagine that all the owners are listed somewhere in the County building in Lihue, and maybe just those of us that use this BBS can slowly add members that we encounter when we come to the properties.
> 
> I can create a website with forums just for Pahio owners *if there is interest* in that, with all the contact info and have it passworded so that the information is controlled.



Just my two cents worth.  I highly recommend that we take Hopster up on his suggestion and offer.  We are currently here at The Shearwater, and on the first day here, we met three owners, who want to join a group that can be used to state our wants and needs, and where we as Pahio Owners can talk with one another.

The Yahoo Group is nice, but it is not used very much, and while TUG is great and that is where most of the conversations take place, everyone may not want to join TUG, for this effort.

Secondly.  We are Pahio Owners, all of the properties except for Bai Hai are sold out, so at this time no one is going to come in and usurp us out of our units, and reservations.  Years down the road as we leave Pahio, die off, or for those who convert, there will be opportunities for Wyndham owners to gain more units.  At the current pace, it doesn't appear that it is going to happen at The Shearwater anytime soon.  From the folks I talked with today, no one has any plans on converting, and they further stated that the folks that they talked to prior to us arriving, had no plans on converting either(the cost to convert, and what if some else takes over management years from now).  As someone posted earlier, if you have a deed you are good to go!!   Most Shearwater owners come back every year.  I can't speak for Bali Hai, KEK, KBV, or the Makai Club, because we don't own at these properties.

Yes, Wydham wants to make their money back from the "management purchase", and remember that is what it is, except for the new units at Bali Hai.  But you do not have to convert over to Wydham.  If you have't done so in awhile, now might be a good time to read over your deeds, and remind yourselfs that you have a wonderful place to stay here on Kauai. 

When you are at your properties, enjoy your vacation, but take a few minutes and spread the word to your fellow owners, about what is going on, and let them know that there is a group of owners who working together to keep all Pahio owners informed.  

Just my thoughts ...I am off to enjoy the rest of my vacation.


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## tfalk (Jun 25, 2007)

Like Hopster, I could probably also create a site and BBS if there is enough interest.

I was thinking of registering the name of pahio-owners.org or patso-owners.org for a website.
Problem is, I think those acronyms are owned by Pahio and they could probably threaten a 
lawsuit to shutdown any site that uses pahio in the site name....  Not that they wouldn't
want the owners talking or anything, right?  

Sorry, I don't trust Pahio mgmt or Lynn McCrory as far as I could drop-kick them.

We'll be a KEK for 2 weeks in August and I like poking sticks under rocks to see what's hiding


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## slabeaume (Jun 25, 2007)

I'd be interested, too.


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## Hopster (Jun 26, 2007)

I already reserved pahioinfo.com and am having my website guy set us up with a  forums area with Simple Machines forums software.

I will only put up forums right now until we get a descent following, then we can look into more. This will help us in many areas.

We can have a Wyndam area, individual property areas, prepare for board vote area, recommended things to do area - with contact info for discounts. Also if enough of us register, we can approach area companies to offer us discounts for Pahio owners and bypass the concierge desk.

Also we can find out about the popular excursions (like the tubing) , and reserve space prior to getting there.

After we get the forums up, I can give others admin access to configure the rooms anyway that we want. This could be the start to coordinating ideas to help us in other areas that we have not even thought of yet.


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## ajsmithtx (Jun 26, 2007)

Great.  I am in, and so are a couple of other owners who are currently here in Kauai this week.


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## pattic777 (Jun 26, 2007)

Very cool -- thank you!


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## DaveNV (Jun 26, 2007)

Can a new owner at Kauai Beach Villas be part of this new forum, too?  If so, I'd like to be in on it.  I want to make sure I get the most from my purchase.  TIA

As far as you getting in trouble with Pahio for having the site, I'd think as long as you have a disclaimer of some sort saying you're not affiliated with them, maybe with an outbound link to their official site, and explaining that you are an informational not-for-profit site for owners at Pahio resorts, they shouldn't have room to squawk.  They may not WANT you to talk to each other, but I don't see how they can legally stop it.

Dave


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## Hopster (Jul 1, 2007)

I dont see a problem with the KBV being included, you are Pahio.

People- Things are so hectic for me right now. I am trying to finish building a house and am trying to sell my old one. 

tfalk- maybe you can build the forums/website if everyone is in a hurry. Let me know if you want me to point the URL to it or if you just want to create your own. Either way is fine with me. 

If you guys can give me a few weeks, I will be glad to continue with this.


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## slabeaume (Jul 2, 2007)

Hopster said:


> I dont see a problem with the KBV being included, you are Pahio.
> 
> People- Things are so hectic for me right now. I am trying to finish building a house and am trying to sell my old one.
> 
> ...




I'm in no hurry.


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## taffy19 (Jul 2, 2007)

I know that there is a section like that in TS4MS here and there are many Yahoo groups too but they may disappear suddenly one day as I have read this happening recently in both forums.

Ask if TUG can set up something similar too for groups of owners who want to share information between each other. It is getting hold of the names of other members what is so hard to do. Trying to get them from public records is a very big task as I am trying to do this right now. It can be done but it is taking a lot of time.


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## Bill4728 (Jul 3, 2007)

there are 26 TUG bbs users who have Pahio as their resorts owned.

To get this list
-go to user list (middle of blue banner at top)
-go to search user list ( far right) & advance search)
- type in Pahio under resorts

Hope that helps


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## tfalk (Jul 3, 2007)

Hopster, whatever you want to do and when is cool.  If you already have the
sitename, it would probably be better to start there instead of trying to move
things down the road.  I was going to use the same forum software since my
host includes it but I've never used it before so it would be a learning experience.

Let me know if I can help in any way.  I also like the idea of keeping things
here on TUG - one stop instead of many, but whatever works for everyone.

I need to dig around in my filing cabinet at home.  I used to own Mauna Kai 7B
so I had a lot of paperwork dealing with the property split between MK and KaEoKai.
I also used to get all the info from PHCA that Pahio doesn't share with any of it's owners.  
Pahio wants us KaEoKai -II owners to turn over our PHCA votes to them but they never
find time to tell us what PHCA is doing... co-indicidence?


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## Hopster (Jul 7, 2007)

I should have something up by next week for sure.


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## LisaH (Jul 8, 2007)

I'm at Shearwater right now. What a wonderful place! I'm so glad that I bought it last Dec. Anyway, I plan on going to Wed. Owners' meeting at Ka'Eo Kai. If there are questions that you would like me to ask, please fire it away.


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## rickandcindy23 (Jul 8, 2007)

Lisa, what unit did you get?   

Love Shearwater!  Units 208 and 110 were both awesome.


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## LisaH (Jul 8, 2007)

203. The view is to die for


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## pattic777 (Jul 8, 2007)

How is the sun in the morning in 203?  We noticed in May that the people in building 1 weren't on their lanais much in the morning and that the living room blinds were shut.  Thought maybe the sun was intense...


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## Hopster (Jul 8, 2007)

LisaH said:


> I'm at Shearwater right now. What a wonderful place! I'm so glad that I bought it last Dec. Anyway, I plan on going to Wed. Owners' meeting at Ka'Eo Kai. If there are questions that you would like me to ask, please fire it away.




Lisa please post in new forums area also.

Also anyone on the Yahoo site-- can you please make a post for the new forums area please.


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## Hopster (Jul 8, 2007)

tfalk said:


> Hopster, whatever you want to do and when is cool.  If you already have the
> sitename, it would probably be better to start there instead of trying to move
> things down the road.  I was going to use the same forum software since my
> host includes it but I've never used it before so it would be a learning experience.
> ...



Let me know when you register for the new forums and I will set you up for admin.


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## LisaH (Jul 15, 2007)

pattic777 said:


> How is the sun in the morning in 203?  We noticed in May that the people in building 1 weren't on their lanais much in the morning and that the living room blinds were shut.  Thought maybe the sun was intense...



Sorry I didn't see this until now. We are back after a wonderful 10-days vacation on Kauai. We definitely got sun on the lanai in unit 203 in the morning but it does not feel hot with the constant breeze. Our blinds were up all week. Two days out of the week, I got up early to see the sunrise We also got a great view of the lighthouse but I think most of the units should have the lighthouse view.

Just want to remind everyone that Hopster has set up a website for Pahio owners. Please visit and register at www.pahioinfo.com


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## DaveNV (Jul 15, 2007)

I tried to access the site and it talked about registering with an activation code.  I don't have that.  So I asked it to resend, gave it my email address, and it said "User does not exist."  Is the site not ready, or am I missing something?

Thanks,
Dave


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## DaveNV (Jul 15, 2007)

Nevermind.  I got it sorted out.  I'm registered now.

Thanks,
Dave


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## randyz (Jul 24, 2007)

Tony,

Good advice, remain calm. Years ago when Wyndham/FF bought equivest much like they recently did PAHIO I was blissfully unaware, also no communication, except of a letter telling me where to seen the annual MF.
It wasn't until I attended my resort 2 years later (was doing II exchanges) that I received more info and the offer to convert to FF points. I did the conversion and have never regretted it. For what its worth I think the conversion worked for me because I had no intention of visiting my home resort yearly. FSP points exchanges have been VASTLY superior to my prior experience with II exchanges. Having read postings from other PAHIO owners it seems many want to return yearly so spending $2000 or more to convert would make no sense.

Randy


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## slabeaume (Jul 24, 2007)

randyz said:


> Tony,
> 
> Good advice, remain calm. Years ago when Wyndham/FF bought equivest much like they recently did PAHIO I was blissfully unaware, also no communication, except of a letter telling me where to seen the annual MF.
> It wasn't until I attended my resort 2 years later (was doing II exchanges) that I received more info and the offer to convert to FF points. I did the conversion and have never regretted it. For what its worth I think the conversion worked for me because I had no intention of visiting my home resort yearly. FSP points exchanges have been VASTLY superior to my prior experience with II exchanges. Having read postings from other PAHIO owners it seems many want to return yearly so spending $2000 or more to convert would make no sense.
> ...



We were told last March that converting without buying another week wasn't possible.  If it had been an option for $2000, I probably would have done that.  But we didn't want to buy another week for about $18,000.  We are familiar with the point system being Worldmark owners and love the system.  They seemed to have some interesting quirks as Wyndham owners, too, but not enough to spend $18,000 for them.  If we planned on exchanging our weeks most of the time, I may have considered it.  But that trip to Kauai every year is something we both really look forward to.


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## rickandcindy23 (Jul 24, 2007)

I guess you can call corporate and convert a week for $2,695, but you can never get VIP status that way.  That is my understanding, anyway.  You can buy a lot of used points for just a little more, including closing costs.  So why convert a week you already paid a lot for?  You can always rent out your week for a little profit and use the points for vacations.


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## randyz (Jul 25, 2007)

slabeaume said:


> We were told last March that converting without buying another week wasn't possible.  If it had been an option for $2000, I probably would have done that.  But we didn't want to buy another week for about $18,000.  We are familiar with the point system being Worldmark owners and love the system.  They seemed to have some interesting quirks as Wyndham owners, too, but not enough to spend $18,000 for them.  If we planned on exchanging our weeks most of the time, I may have considered it.  But that trip to Kauai every year is something we both really look forward to.



I have been told by others that conversions were done (can be done) at Kona Hawiian Resort. I was offered my conversion at New Orleans but do not recall there being a stipulation of buying more points. I did however want to buy more points anyhow, so maybe it never came up. At the time I owned a suite and I had become a single dad with kids, needed more room . I did not buy another week though I topped up my points in essence to equal a 2 bedroom anywhere in the FF system. 

Personally I find it surprising that they would restrict conversions by demanding more purchases. The whole point is for Wyn to expand their availability within the network. It makes no sense to restrict conversions and hold that process back. 

Sounds like you are like many PAHIO owners who want to be there yearly, obviously no need to convert. How are you finding Worldmark, is it a problem getting the "choice" resorts.

Randy


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## randyz (Jul 25, 2007)

rickandcindy23 said:


> I guess you can call corporate and convert a week for $2,695, but you can never get VIP status that way.  That is my understanding, anyway.  You can buy a lot of used points for just a little more, including closing costs.  So why convert a week you already paid a lot for?  You can always rent out your week for a little profit and use the points for vacations.




You are bang on Cindy. An obvious solution excepting that it increases your MF load, unless you take the trouble to rent, which is not something everyone can be bothered with.

I am guessing the definition of wasted sales time would be someone trying to get you to convert Shearwater :rofl: 

Randy


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## Dalownerx3 (Jul 25, 2007)

We are Kauai Beach Villas owners and are currently in Kauai! (The wi-fi works wonderfully!)

We went to a Wyndham presentation yesterday.  They didn't try to convert us but rather sell us a weeks worth of Bali Hai points (305k).  I'm thinking they didn't try to convert us because we weren't Wyndham members yet.  You have to buy to get in and then convert.

We didn't wind up buying (one of the rare occassions that happpended. LOL).  However, we did sign up for their Discovery Plan - for $2400, we get a 305k points to use by Jan 2009.  We are limited to a subset of resorts.  (Supposedly they are resorts that have Sales offices).  And if we do buy, the $2400 is applied toward the closing price and we will use the prices that were quoted to us during the presentation.  We figure it's a way to try out the system without buying a whole week.


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## pattic777 (Jul 25, 2007)

We bought the discovery plan and then rescinded while we were at Shearwater.  I wanted to see what I could get while I was there, so I called the booking folks several times -- only to discover that I could not use the time until the rescinsion (sp?) period was over.  I had told the salesman that I wanted to use it immediately to book places to stay for a couple of weddings coming up; I guess he didn't know or didn't think that I would really want to do it immediately.

What I realized in trying to do the booking was that the probability was that I wasn't going to be able to use the 305K points -- that some would remain left over at the end (it isn't likely I would find exchanges that would exactly add up to 305K points).  Then the only way I could get more points was to convert my weeks, which I have no desire to do.  So I decided it wasn't a good choice for us and rescinded.

The paperwork also appeared to give them free rein to market to me continuously over the year, and I figured I could do without that hassle.


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## "Roger" (Jul 25, 2007)

pattic777 said:


> ...What I realized in trying to do the booking was that the probability was that I wasn't going to be able to use the 305K points -- that some would remain left over at the end (it isn't likely I would find exchanges that would exactly add up to 305K points).  Then the only way I could get more points was to convert my weeks, which I have no desire to do.  ....


I am not at all questioning your decision. I just want to comment this part of the post.  

No, you won't be able to get trades to add up to 305K points, but your alternative is not adding more points and then trying to get the new number to come out right.  Rather, you spend something close to what you have (in your example, say something like 285K - just an example).  You then carry over the remaining points to the next year.  Same thing the next year and the next and then next.  Each year, you just try to get close to what you have that year.

(Maybe I misunderstood your comment?)


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## pattic777 (Jul 25, 2007)

Roger -- that would be the case if I owned Wyndham points, but I don't, I had just purchased the Discovery plan, which is 305K points, period.  So unless I converted some of my ownership to Wyndham points, I would never add any additional points to my account, and, in your example, lose 20K points.

Patti


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## slabeaume (Jul 25, 2007)

randyz said:


> Personally I find it surprising that they would restrict conversions by demanding more purchases. The whole point is for Wyn to expand their availability within the network. It makes no sense to restrict conversions and hold that process back.
> 
> Sounds like you are like many PAHIO owners who want to be there yearly, obviously no need to convert. How are you finding Worldmark, is it a problem getting the "choice" resorts.
> 
> Randy



They actually did offer to convert my weeks, but I had to buy another week first.  Like another responded clarified.  But they wouldn't let us just convert the 4 weeks we already have.  

As for Worldmark, we love it.  But the trick to getting the choice resorts is to book about 13 months out.  So I have 4 nights at Depoe Bay booked for Aug. 2008 already.   I don't seem to have any problem using up our points.  I love their cancellation policy, too---no penalty depending on how far out you book and cancel.   So I could see where Wyndham points might be neat to have, but I'd probably always want to go back to Kauai Beach Villas anyway.


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## rickandcindy23 (Jul 25, 2007)

randyz said:


> You are bang on Cindy. An obvious solution excepting that it increases your MF load, unless you take the trouble to rent, which is not something everyone can be bothered with.
> 
> I am guessing the definition of wasted sales time would be someone trying to get you to convert Shearwater :rofl:
> 
> Randy



Converting Shearwater would be crazy.   After I thought about it for a while, converting any of our PAHIO weeks would be crazy.  If you can buy resale points to get into the system and attend a sales presentation and purchase a minimal number of points, you could get Platinum VIP at another sales office.  Hawaii prices are too high.


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## Dalownerx3 (Jul 25, 2007)

rickandcindy23 said:


> Converting Shearwater would be crazy.   After I thought about it for a while, converting any of our PAHIO weeks would be crazy.  If you can buy resale points to get into the system and attend a sales presentation and purchase a minimal number of points, you could get Platinum VIP at another sales office.  Hawaii prices are too high.



I'm not sure if buying points someplace other than Hawaii will be cheaper.  It seems the Hawaii premium is built into the number of points required to get into Hawaii compared to other places. For example, 2 bedrooms in KBV is 305k points while 2br prime-week in Fairfield Smokey Mountains is 166k points.


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## rickandcindy23 (Jul 25, 2007)

But if you already purchased the points elsewhere, converting with a purchase is a good way to get there, maybe?  The problem might be in the number they will allow you to convert with a smaller purchase.  They were saying that we needed to buy 308,000 points EOY to get to platinum with what we already owned.  When all was said and done, it was over $20K with their closing costs.  I think it was $21K.  Maybe a cheaper way is out there?


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## randyz (Jul 27, 2007)

rickandcindy23 said:


> But if you already purchased the points elsewhere, converting with a purchase is a good way to get there, maybe?  The problem might be in the number they will allow you to convert with a smaller purchase.  They were saying that we needed to buy 308,000 points EOY to get to platinum with what we already owned.  When all was said and done, it was over $20K with their closing costs.  I think it was $21K.  Maybe a cheaper way is out there?



Cindy,

Is there any possibility that Wyndham is/will offer conversions at Pahio, but is trying to imply you need to buy more points in order to make them VIP qualifying points. Noticed on another user group someone was offered a straight up conversion at another property so seems like that is still available.

Randy


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## rifleman69 (Jul 27, 2007)

randyz said:


> Cindy,
> 
> Is there any possibility that Wyndham is/will offer conversions at Pahio, but is trying to imply you need to buy more points in order to make them VIP qualifying points. Noticed on another user group someone was offered a straight up conversion at another property so seems like that is still available.
> 
> Randy



The VIP points is exactly it Randy, nail on the head.  They want you to feel like crap if you start ending up staying in the older units on the property by not converting.   Hardwood floors, granite ccountertops, and flat screen tv's in Hawaii aren't needed by myself and family...to some they are (along with a/c)


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## randyz (Jul 27, 2007)

rifleman69 said:


> The VIP points is exactly it Randy, nail on the head.  They want you to feel like crap if you start ending up staying in the older units on the property by not converting.   Hardwood floors, granite ccountertops, and flat screen tv's in Hawaii aren't needed by myself and family...to some they are (along with a/c)



Do most of the former Pahio properties lack A/C?? Maybe that is why no conversion being pushed. Never been anywhere in FF without A/C.
Makes me wonder if long term they plan to do some upgrades like they did at Royal Sea Cliff in Kona.

I gather from others that Pahio has seen significant increases in MF in the past year or two. Has there been in upgrades as a result of this.??


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## randyz (Jul 27, 2007)

*The Future of Pahio from Wyndham Corporate*

Found the following on the Wyndham Corporate website. From the 7/10 corp press release.

_Individuals who previously owned with PAHIO may elect to join the FairShare Plus by Wyndham internal timeshare exchange program and expand their vacation choices to more than 75 resorts throughout North America.  If they elect not to join the program, they will maintain their ability to vacation within the original PAHIO system as set forth by their contract.   

An expansion of two-and three-bedroom condominium-style units is currently proposed at the Bali Hai Villas resort.  An already stunning property featuring intricately landscaped gardens, a waterfall and tennis court, the expansion will also include the addition of an extensive clubhouse.  The expansion is expected to be completed by third quarter 2008. _

Randy


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## bigeyes1 (Jul 27, 2007)

How come Wyndham/PAHIO didn't contact us about this?   This is the very first time I have read anything (from them) regarding PAHIO owners who owned prior to the acquisition.  


Thanks for the heads up, Randy.  It is sincerely appreciated.


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## rickandcindy23 (Jul 27, 2007)

That's because you have to buy more points to get into the Fairshare system or pay for conversion without getting VIP benefits along with it.


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## Dalownerx3 (Jul 28, 2007)

randyz said:


> Do most of the former Pahio properties lack A/C?? Maybe that is why no conversion being pushed. Never been anywhere in FF without A/C.



When we went through the timeshare presentation, they showed us the new Bali Hai units.  The new units don't have A/C.  I specially asked them about that and the salesperson said they don't need it because the units were designed to take advantage of the tradewind breezes.   I'm not to sure about that.  What I liked about my KBV unit was that the rooms had a A/C unit.  Even though we were in an ocean view room, it still got warm in the mornings with the windows open to let the breezes through.


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## rickandcindy23 (Jul 28, 2007)

Princeville really doesn't get warm enough to require air conditioning.  We went to Princeville in the mid-summer, July 6th, last year and never did feel overly warm.  The ocean breezes and ceiling fans to a good job of keeping things cool.  I don't see need for air conditioning.    My mom-in-law was freezing.  

We live in a cool climate, too, though lately Denver has gotten close to 100 every day!


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## pattic777 (Jul 28, 2007)

I can't comment on Bali Hai, but we love that Shearwater (and Kai Eo Kai, when we used to stay there) do not have air conditioning.  What a blessing it is to hear the birds and the ocean and the wind -- something that we never hear at home over the drone of all the a/c units throughout the neighborhoods.

There are, of course, drawbacks -- it means our doors and windows are open almost all of the time (at Shearwater, we actually have to close them sometimes due to cold).  The problem is that people don't have the respect that living without a/c requires -- i.e. they talk in their units, or more commonly, on their lanais, as if they are the only people in the world, without consideration that other people in the neighboring units can hear them yelling back to the people in their own unit just as well as the intended listener.

I would be very upset if air conditioning became common on north shore -- what an ugly sound that would add to the beautiful world there!

The temperature and climate in Princeville is actually quite a bit different than east (Kapa'a), south (Poipu), and west (Waimea) -- there are very few times that we miss a/c for the coolness on north shore.

Patti


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## rifleman69 (Jul 28, 2007)

randyz said:


> Do most of the former Pahio properties lack A/C?? Maybe that is why no conversion being pushed. Never been anywhere in FF without A/C.
> Makes me wonder if long term they plan to do some upgrades like they did at Royal Sea Cliff in Kona.
> 
> I gather from others that Pahio has seen significant increases in MF in the past year or two. Has there been in upgrades as a result of this.??



They don't need a/c in Princeville, it'll add a ton of money to the maintenance fees.


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