# Newbie needing helo getting rid of timeshares



## Nbarry2 (Apr 4, 2012)

Dad recently diagnosed with terminal disease.  He owns 3 timeshares which we need to get rid of to eliminate monthly fees.  We also suspect he may eventually need to appply for Medicaid to cover enormous nursing home expenses.  

For Medicaid I've been informed, by his State, that if we are "trying to sell", it becomes a non-countable asset.  However, there will be no way to pay the fees once enrolled.  And we need to be very careful to not "give" it to family members.

I do understand how little they are now worth (still need to give the bad news to Dad)

Wyndham Grand Desert 300,000 pts - $1,389 annual fee
Wyndham Star Island 203,000 pts - $1,134 annual fee
SilverLeaf Oak N Spruce (S Lee, MA) week 25, 1 bedroom, annual -  $920 annual fee

All deeded and paid.

I've been researching for a couple of weeks.  The options, as I see them now are:

1) Stop paying fees but realize the resorts will continue to hound us.  Due to his illness we are not concerned about credit rating.

2) Donate for a Cause - liquidation or donation.  Have decided against Donate for a Cause since the will require us to pay big $$

3) Sell through an agent.  I talked to one today and they think they can sell his Wyndham properties as a wash to us -- they will take sale price as commission.  Might take as little as 30 days to find a buyer.

4) Sell within the family for market value.  But, this gets shakey with qualifying for Medicaid to substantiate fair market value

5) List on our own here and on other sites and hire a closing agent.  

What are are other options?  

And what are opinions for the best approach.  

Thank you in advance, we are really struggling and need to make a decision soon.


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## DeniseM (Apr 4, 2012)

I'm sorry for your troubles.

Here is one option - (How to give away your timeshare on TUG):  http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=132509


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## theo (Apr 4, 2012)

Nbarry2 said:


> Dad recently diagnosed with terminal disease.  He owns 3 timeshares which we need to get rid of to eliminate monthly fees.  We also suspect he will need to appply for Medicaid to cover nursing home expenses.  For Medicaid I've been informed by his State that if we are trying to sell, it becomes a non countable asset.  However, there will be no way to pay the fees once enrolled.  And we need to be very careful to not "give" it to family members.
> 
> I do understand how little they are now worth (still need to give the bad news to Dad)
> 
> ...



I too am sorry for your difficult situation. I know from personal experience that end of life family matters are fraught with all manner of deep stress and great difficulty; I wish you strength and peace of mind.

Among the options which you've enumerated above, I personally would be inclined to favor #3 as a "clean" and conclusive resoultion --- *if* (and *only* if) the unidentified "agent" actually has some prior experience and a successful track record with "moving" Wyndham timeshares. False hopes and empty promises from an insincere sales weasel clearly would not serve you well at this difficult time. I'd suggest providing the agent with a pre-defined, date-specific (i.e., not open-ended) and *brief* (30-60 days, max) "listing" period, in order to sufficiently motivate him / her to either make "moving" these particular ownerships a high priority or risk losing the listing entirely. Such a "deadline" should also help ensure that the agent does not try to get greedy and set the selling price "bar" unrealistically high.  

You may or may not be aware that each one of the two Wyndham ownerships will require a $299 transfer fee, imposed by Wyndham (regardless of the sale price and imposed even if the ownerships are given away for free) upon a change of ownership. Legalized larceny, in my opinion, but unavoidable. 

Just expressing my own personal opinion, per your request. I sincerely wish you good luck.


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## Rent_Share (Apr 4, 2012)

At the risk of the wrath of the message board

Option 1 makes the most sense for your situation

Offer up a deed in lieu of foreclosure, if the HOA's won't accept let them foreclose.


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## Nbarry2 (Apr 4, 2012)

I talked to Resort Property Marketing International http://www.resort-property.com/index.htm about selling.  But only the Wyndhams, they do not sell Silverleaf.  Yep, I realize $299 transfer fee for each for Wyndham and also hear they are slow in processing the transfers?

Was told that if priced right they probably could get a seller in 30 days, then 60 days to close. 

Has anyone had experience with this company?


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## presley (Apr 4, 2012)

Nbarry2 said:


> I talked to Resort Property Marketing International http://www.resort-property.com/index.htm about selling.  But only the Wyndhams, they do not sell Silverleaf.  Yep, I realize $299 transfer fee for each for Wyndham and also hear they are slow in processing the transfers?
> 
> Was told that if priced right they probably could get a seller in 30 days, then 60 days to close.
> 
> Has anyone had experience with this company?



I don't have experience with them, but their site says non-exclusive agreement and no upfront fee.  It won't hurt to list with them.  You can still get rid of it on your own and then cancel your listing if you sell it before they do.

We have a bargain deals area on this forum.  You may consider listing it for free, with the buyer paying closing and transfer fees.  JRA closing is a very easy and inexpensive way to set up the closing on your own.  

In any event, do whatever is the least amount of work/stress for you.


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## janej (Apr 4, 2012)

I am so sorry you have to go through this.   Here is what I think of these three timeshares.

Wyndham Grand Desert 300,000 pts - $1,389 annual fee
Very attractive MF/point ratio, I am sure you will be able to give it away here or even list it on ebay and get some money.

Wyndham Star Island 203,000 pts - $1,134 annual fee
Normal MF/point ratio, you should be able to give it away.   I went through the same process last year with one of my Wyndham contact and listed with some brokers with the same promise as you got.   I ended up giving it away here paying for the closing cost.   The buyer paid $299 transfer fee.

SilverLeaf Oak N Spruce (S Lee, MA) week 25, 1 bedroom, annual - $920 annual fee
I don't really know this resort, but the fee looks way too way for a 1 bedroom in this area.   You might have to use your option #1 on this one.


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## Passepartout (Apr 4, 2012)

Rent_Share said:


> At the risk of the wrath of the message board
> 
> Option 1 makes the most sense for your situation
> 
> Offer up a deed in lieu of foreclosure, if the HOA's won't accept let them foreclose.



I also agree with this approach. You (and Dad) have enough on your plates. Offer the TSs back to the resorts with the (threat) of default. Tell 'em they are getting them back anyway, so they can save themselves money, time and hassle by accepting a deedback. Dad is beyond caring about his credit rating.

I, too, am sincerely sorry for his condition and wish you all well.

Jim


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## theo (Apr 4, 2012)

*No "wrath" here --- and not seeking to argue, but...*



Rent_Share said:


> At the risk of the wrath of the message board
> 
> Option 1 makes the most sense for your situation
> 
> Offer up a deed in lieu of foreclosure, if the HOA's won't accept let them foreclose.



...in view of the fact that two out of the three are Wyndham points package ownerships, the "HOA" is actually a historically unsympathetic Wyndham corporate. Just leaving the matter alone to await foreclosure could potentially create unnecessary (i.e., avoidable) delay in getting a decision in the Medicaid application process to which the OP's family will inevitably (and apparently soon) be subjected.  

Certainly, we are all entitled to a different opinion. I personally have to believe that a timely "clean" sale and closing would likely best serve the OP's family in the specific situation currently facing them...


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## ace2000 (Apr 4, 2012)

theo said:


> ...in view of the fact that two out of the three are Wyndham points package ownerships, the "HOA" is actually a historically unsympathetic Wyndham corporate. Just leaving the matter alone to await foreclosure could potentially create unnecessary (i.e., avoidable) delay in getting a decision in the Medicaid application process to which the OP's family will inevitably (and apparently soon) be subjected.
> 
> Certainly, we are all entitled to a different opinion. I personally have to believe that a timely "clean" sale and closing would likely best serve the OP's family in the specific situation currently facing them...


 
The OP said the timeshares are a _noncountable_ asset.  Anyway, I don't see how they would affect the Medicare application process.  The timeshares don't have to be mentioned at all, especially if they're basically worthless.  Can you explain what you mean?


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## theo (Apr 4, 2012)

*Not a pretty picture...*



ace2000 said:


> The OP said the timeshares are a _noncountable_ asset.  Anyway, I don't see how they would affect the Medicare application process.  The timeshares don't have to be mentioned at all, especially if they're basically worthless.  Can you explain what you mean?



Actually, what the OP stated (correctly) was that the timeshares are not counted as an asset *if currently being sold or offered for sale*. 

In the Medicaid application process (I am specifically addressing nursing home cost coverage eligibility), Uncle Sam currently looks back retroactively (from date of application) 5 years at / for all assets, including any and all assets "transferred" during that time frame (by whatever means, to whomever may have been the recipient). Yes, the timeshares *do indeed* have to be acknowledged / mentioned, legally speaking. 
If owned and not currently being sold they will be regarded as a financial asset. In that instance, it's the *value* of that asset that comes into question --- if not sold in some "arms length" fashion to conclusively and cleanly resolve that issue of "value". You don't want to be in a position to have to either spend time getting acceptable appraisals or (worse) have a previous purchase price be used to determine value --- and still all the while remain responsible for paying fees (which Wyndham bills on a monthly basis).  

Yes, I am certainly well aware that some timeshares are essentially worthless in today's sorry resale market and should actually perhaps (logically, anyhow) be regarded and treated as a liability, rather than as an asset. I acknowledge and completely agree with that --- but "Uncle Sam" (...back to addressing "logic" ) won't necessarily look at it that same way. 

I didn't make the rules and I don't agree with them, but their being applied by our "all-knowing" Uncle Sam unfortunately does not require my, your, or anyone else's agreement or personal concurrence.


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## theo (Apr 4, 2012)

*Reports vary, but...*



Nbarry2 said:


> ... I realize $299 transfer fee for each for Wyndham and also hear they are slow in processing the transfers?



I'd figure on a minimum of 6 weeks, up to 10 weeks --- after you have a new owner identified. You could get lucky and it could take less time. For a Wyndham ownership I gave away for free last calendar year, it took 10 weeks after a new deed was recorded with the applicable county (mine was a deeded / converted fixed week, not "pure points").


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## Nbarry2 (Apr 4, 2012)

Everyone is being so helpful!  So much to think about.  I should clarify, all three timeshares ARE Deeded.  Can you clarify something?  If we find a buyer (or decided to 0.00 sale) do we need to wait for Wyndham to process transfer before we close?  Just wondering how long before the monthly fee becomes new owner's responsibility.


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## theo (Apr 4, 2012)

Nbarry2 said:


> If we find a buyer (or decided to 0.00 sale) do we need to wait for Wyndham to process transfer before we close?  Just wondering how long before the monthly fee becomes new owner's responsibility.



Recording of a new deed will actually *precede* Wyndham's internal processing / acknowledgement of a new ownership. Wyndham will proceed internally only after they have a copy of the new, valid recorded deed *and* their larcenous $299 "transfer fee" firmly in hand.

Only after Wyndham has received (and has completed) *all* of the above will they then start billing the new owner on a monthly basis. Rest assured that Wyndham will not entertain any "interruption" or "break" in financial responsibility for those monthly fees from *someone*...


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## bogey21 (Apr 4, 2012)

DeniseM said:


> Here is one option



Why isn't the first option you suggest is to try and deed the Week back to the Developer or HOA.  It may be futile.  It may not.  All I know is that I successfully deeded 4 Weeks back to 4 different HOAs within the last 18 months or so.

George


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## Nbarry2 (Apr 4, 2012)

Good point.  Did not include since both Wyndham (basically) and Silverleaf (definately) declined verbal request to turn in.  Though we are sending a written Wyndham request to turn them back. Was told 30 days till response, and unlikely....


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## Rent_Share (Apr 4, 2012)

List them for free on TUG Marketplace - Buyer to Pay Recording Fees, Maintenance Fees Required to be paid as a conditon of transfer and Resort Transfer Fees

Meets Requirement of being listed for sale

Stops the outflow of cash

Do Not pay any maintenance fees, let the resort take them off your hands, since you will refuse to accept them as (abandon as worthless) part of the estate and they are ultimately will end up with them with how ever many years of unpaid maintenance fees


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## theo (Apr 5, 2012)

*On further reflection...*



Rent_Share said:


> List them for free on TUG Marketplace - Buyer to Pay Recording Fees, Maintenance Fees Required to be paid as a conditon of transfer and Resort Transfer Fees
> 
> Meets Requirement of being listed for sale
> 
> ...



I think this is (...mostly) a *very good* idea actually  , since it is almost certainly the *fastest* means by which to achieve a clean and permanent disposal. I respectfully disagree only with the "stop paying maintenance fees" suggestion (assuming that those fees are currently up to date at present). I have to believe that it would be wise to keep up with the fees (issued and paid monthly, at least for the two Wyndhams) for a month or so, simply to make the offering as attractive as possible and thereby "sweeten the pot" for a would-be recipient.  

I'm betting that the two Wyndham points packages would likely elicit a "taker" quite promptly; there are people on TUG (I'm not one of them) who like and use Wyndham and who might jump right on an offer of a free points package acquisition. Hopefully, the OP has ready access to copies of the current deeds; having those documents available will save some time (and cost) for a closing. The new deed work / recording part could be efficiently and competently accomplished for about $150 (per individual ownership) with Lisa Short's outfit in Georgia (called Legaltimesharetransfers, if I recall correctly). I agree that the recipient (not the current owner) should pay closing fees *and* Wyndham's $299 per ownership transfer fees. The transfer fee checks, written as payable directly to Wyndham, could be provided (separate from the closing fees) to Lisa's office by the "buyer" and then later forwarded directly to Wyndham, right along with a copy of the newly recorded deed, just as soon as the new deed(s) get recorded and returned. While Lisa's office will not handle escrow of funds, they will do this much; I have done so myself through that office a few months ago; a check pre-paid to resort company (...Bluegreen, in my case) for transfer fees is evidently not regarded as handling "escrow of funds"). I can't think of another avenue for disposal which would or could be any faster, start to finish, or "cleaner", with a conclusive disposition and with minimal reliance on third parties, agents of unknown energy level or reliability, etc.    

Any sort of "intra-family" transfer would likely just raise questions about accurate "valuation", absent a formal appraisal (more time, more money). Unless some sibling really and truly wants to acquire (and pay market value for) one or more of the ownerships, I doubt this would be wise (from the Medicaid eligibility evaluation perspective). Questioned valuation is a potential complication which the OP and her family certainly don't need at this difficult time.


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## dbmarch (Apr 5, 2012)

Why not just sell them on Ebay with starting bid of $1 and no reserve?

Buyer pays closing costs (specify a closing company and cost) and transfer costs.  List them in the ad.  

Then they are sold at market value. 

If it doesnt sell, relist.   Keep maintenance fees current till they go.   If you need to unload - offer to pay closing and/or transfer fees.


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## theo (Apr 5, 2012)

*Time is of the essence...*



dbmarch said:


> Why not just sell them on Ebay with starting bid of $1 and no reserve?
> 
> Buyer pays closing costs (specify a closing company and cost) and transfer costs.  List them in the ad.
> 
> ...



Your idea is a good one at first blush, but there is a *time* issue of concern for the OP (I've been there and done that). From the day the OP's Dad files an application for Medicaid eligibility for potential coverage of expensive nursing home costs, the "5 year lookback" window opens and the examination process begins. 

In short, while the OP should definitely seek out legal counsel competent in this arena of "elder law", it's almost certainly better for Dad if the timeshares can be conclusively disposed of *before* the Medicaid application process even begins --- and preferably by a means other than "intra family transfer". 
The "challenge" with the eBay approach, while otherwise certainly valid and sound, is that the clock just keeps right on ticking while listings, maybe next followed by necessary *re*listings, and skittish eBayers who may not be responsive in their (non-binding, I must point out) bidding all consume valuable time. 
At this difficult juncture in the OP family situation, time is a luxury which they perhaps can ill afford...


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## Karen G (Apr 5, 2012)

Nbarry2 said:


> Dad recently diagnosed with terminal disease.  He owns 3 timeshares which we need to get rid of to eliminate monthly fees.  We also suspect he may eventually need to appply for Medicaid to cover enormous nursing home expenses.


If you aren't already doing this, it will be enormously helpful for your family to contact an attorney who specializes in "elder issues" or whatever they may call it.  When we were faced with similar challenges with my husband's mother, the nursing home she was transferred to after a stroke directed us to an attorney whom they recommended.  He was able to guide us through the lengthy & cumbersone process to get her qualified for Medicaid. The first thing we found out we needed was her power of attorney that allowed my husband to be able to transfer her real estate holdings. He had a general power of attorney to do things like pay bills, but it didn't go far enough to be able to accomplish everything he had to do for her. Fortunately, she was still lucid enough to understand what was needed and, with the attorney's help, a notary public was able to visit with her in the nursing home and get her to sign the needed documents for the correct power of attorney. It would have been more of a nightmare than it aleady was without it.


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## Nbarry2 (Apr 5, 2012)

Thank you all!  Very helpful and keep comments coming.  

Yes, we have retained an attorney to guide us through the Medicaid process and a sibling now has Power of Attorney.  The attorney is not totally educated on the time share piece.  We thought it best to do research on our own then report  what we found to attorney.  

So, again, it so helpful to hear the options/opinions from all of you.  Very appreciative.


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## Hophop4 (Apr 5, 2012)

Are you sure the m/f on the Silverleaf is $920?  I have never heard of a 1 bedroom with that high m/f.  All the 2 bedrooms are in the $800+ range or less.  I will ask over on our Yahoo Group if anyone is interested.  I would also check with Silverleaf Corporate Office in Dallas if they will take it back and explain your situation.  Good Luck.


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## Nbarry2 (Apr 5, 2012)

Hophop4 said:


> Are you sure the m/f on the Silverleaf is $920?  I have never heard of a 1 bedroom with that high m/f.  All the 2 bedrooms are in the $800+ range or less.  I will ask over on our Yahoo Group if anyone is interested.  I would also check with Silverleaf Corporate Office in Dallas if they will take it back and explain your situation.  Good Luck.




I will double check with Dad.  Thanks for any help!


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## easyrider (Apr 5, 2012)

Rent_Share said:


> At the risk of the wrath of the message board
> 
> Option 1 makes the most sense for your situation
> 
> Offer up a deed in lieu of foreclosure, if the HOA's won't accept let them foreclose.



This looks right to me. It also would be the easiest in this situation.

Billl


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## antjmar (Apr 5, 2012)

Nbarry2 said:


> I talked to Resort Property Marketing International http://www.resort-property.com/index.htm about selling.  But only the Wyndhams, they do not sell Silverleaf.  Yep, I realize $299 transfer fee for each for Wyndham and also hear they are slow in processing the transfers?
> 
> Was told that if priced right they probably could get a seller in 30 days, then 60 days to close.
> 
> Has anyone had experience with this company?


I bought wyndham points from them 1st week in Feb they were fine.  Seller paid them $1000 to sell it  (I saw this in the paper work) Wyndham has yet to add this to my current account.


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## antjmar (Apr 5, 2012)

Sorry about your dad's condition.  
It appears to me that your dad may be Wyndham (Silver) VIP which gives some perks and free upgrades. I assume he bought retail (from Wyndham)  and since he has over 300K points that make his VIP.
This is only transferable to family but some people feel it does have some value... something to think about


actually he is Gold since he has over  500K points IMO you may want to keep it. Fairmarket value is very low but the gold perks are nice to have!


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## Hophop4 (Apr 5, 2012)

Nbarry2 said:


> I will double check with Dad.  Thanks for any help!



Also check to see if it is a 1 bedroom or a 2 bedroom unit.  All Silverleaf's are 2 bedrooms and some 3 bedrooms but I am not familiar with the Oak 'n Spruce Resort.

You can also go on the Silverleaf website and log into your Dad's account with his permission or with him together and check the account payments.  It would show how much m/f he is paying.  Also the actual unit number/account you may already know this.  If you get in the website, look for the bonus time option and see if the account is pulling 6 nights free.  If it is, this means this account has  free Endless Escape bonus on it.  It may or may not transfer, not sure.  This is a Silverleaf perk everyone looks for.


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## LannyPC (Apr 6, 2012)

I don't think this has been mentioned in this thread and you're probably aware of the obvious but...

You or your father may be receiving a bunch of unsolicited phone calls post cards, or e-mails with glitzy-looking promises to quickly relieve your father of his timeshare contract.  They may make such promises as "Get out of your timeshare within 30 days, guaranteed!", "We buy many timeshares.  Call us today to see if yours qualifies.", etc.

Don't fall for any of these as they usually translate into scams or, at the very least, trouble and frustration.


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## puppymommo (Apr 6, 2012)

Hophop4 said:


> You can also go on the Silverleaf website and log into your Dad's account with his permission or with him together and check the account payments.  It would show how much m/f he is paying.  Also the actual unit number/account you may already know this.  If you get in the website, look for the bonus time option and see if the account is pulling 6 nights free.  If it is, this means this account has  free Endless Escape bonus on it.  It may or may not transfer, not sure.  This is a Silverleaf perk everyone looks for.



Actually the Bonus time feature is not currently available on the Silverleaf website right now.  I agree with Hop that if the deed has Endless Escape it may be valuable (relatively speaking).  Endless Escape is not supposed to transfer, but sometimes it does.


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## Sandi Bo (Apr 6, 2012)

What if you list them somewhere, anywhere, for more than you might think you'll get (or for now for what your father thinks they are worth).  Then you are "trying to sell" them and thus they become a non-countable asset.  

In the short-term you've removed an obstacle trying to settle other issues (if this is causing any issues at this time).

In the long-term you either get rid of them for more than you thought you'd get or you've bought yourself some time to determine how you really do want to deal with the timeshare situation.


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## Nbarry2 (Apr 6, 2012)

puppymommo said:


> Actually the Bonus time feature is not currently available on the Silverleaf website right now.  I agree with Hop that if the deed has Endless Escape it may be valuable (relatively speaking).  Endless Escape is not supposed to transfer, but sometimes it does.



All I can tell from on-line account is Silverleaf Oak N Spruce, week 25 unit 235.  Plus Pick 'n Go Bonus time.  Hoping my confusion is to Dad's benefit.    He's in MA, I'm in Maine but I head down to MA early next week - will read all deeds and discuss options with Dad.  Then we'll get moving!

And for the solicitations -- it's already amazing how many are appearing on IE through my browsing history.  Be assured, we will not pay upfront fees for anything.  Thank you all for educating me.  Hard but valuable lessons.


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## jr7110 (Apr 11, 2012)

Which management company are these timeshares under? You could call and ask if they will do a deedback  - explain the extreme circumstances and you might end up with a sympathetic ear.  

Donate For A Cause is a financial nightmare - they want nearly $3000 per timeshare to "accept" your donation.  Forget it.

I was able to successfully unload my Jockey Club timeshare by simply calling Tricom (the management company) and asking to do a deedback.  I had a completely paid off warranty deed (since yours are paid off and deeded you are eligible for a deedback if the management company will agree to it).  They were actually very nice about it and it only cost $250 for the transfer fee.  Now I am free of timeshares and I will never buy one again...I suggest giving it a try.  It couldn't hurt and it might be the easiest, most cost effective way of unloading the units.

*After posting I saw that you had already reached out to the company to try a deedback - call again.  I would try for someone who might be compassionate enough to understand the extenuating circumstances you are in with your dad being so ill.  Even offer to send medical proof if they want - whatever it takes for them to consider just taking the properties back.  At such a difficult time, the last thing you need is this extra timeshare stress added on.


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