# Tragic News at Disney's Grand Floridian



## nokaoi9

http://www.tmz.com/2016/06/14/disney-resort-gator-child-missing/


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## HappyGoLucky

Prayers to the family of that 2 year old. What a horrible way to remember Disney World.


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## klpca

Just terrible.


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## silentg

Unbelievable! Can't leave home, all bad things happen while we are away. Prayers for the family, devastated !


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## Ty1on

Heartbreaking.  Disney's environs can lull us into a sense of security when sometimes we should be cautious.  My heart and thoughts are with this devastated family.


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## DeniseM

It is very likely that someone from Nebraska did not know there are alligators in these lagoons.


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## Ty1on

DeniseM said:


> It is very likely that someone from Nebraska did not know there are alligators in these lagoons.



No blame on the parents whatsoever.  I lived in NOLA, and when I was at WDW, the thought of gators in Seven Seas Lagoon never crossed my mind, even though I was intimately familiar with Southern swamps.  That's what I meant.


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## pedro47

My heart goes out to the parents, a truly tragic story. May The Lord our God be with the child.


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## ace2000

DeniseM said:


> It is very likely that someone from Nebraska did not know there are alligators in these lagoons.



The child was standing ankle-deep in 1 foot off the edge of a sandy beach.  I don't blame the parents.  It's just a tragic accident.

Here's a decent article including a picture of the beach area where the incident happened.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...tor-near-Disney-s-Grand-Floridian-resort.html


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## Sugarcubesea

What a horrible tragedy, I truly hope they find the little boy to bring closure to the parents... I can't even imagine being on vacation and having something like this happen...


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## littlestar

This is awful.  Someone from Nebraska most likely would not know about gators. 

Years ago while staying at Disney's Carribean Beach I was resting in a hammock on the beach and I saw what looked like a three year old wading in the water. A local Floridian thought the child belonged to me and came over and begged me to get the child out of the water because of gators. I told her it was not my child. She said if there is a puddle of water, there could be a gator in it.


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## Kozman

*2 Year Old Snatched by Alligator at Disney Resort*

Just heard on the news that a two year old child was snatched away into the lake by an alligator at the Grand Floridian Disney resort right in front of his parents. They attempted to rescue him but were unsuccessful. 

I guess you have to be vigilant of your children even at a supposedly safe venue like Disney. How sad.


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## SandyPGravel

Kozman said:


> Just heard on the news that a two year old child was snatched away into the lake by an alligator at the Grand Floridian Disney resort right in front of his parents. They attempted to rescue him but were unsuccessful.
> 
> I guess you have to be vigilant of your children even at a supposedly safe venue like Disney. How sad.



According to the news report I heard on the radio this morning, the entire family was wading in a pond that was clearly marked to stay out.  My heart goes out for the family, but just like what happened in Yellowstone last week, they weren't following what the signs said.  (Maybe there was a language barrier issue?)


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## presley

While someone may not know about alligators, having no swimming signs all over the place would keep me from having my child in the water. It's the little things that you can't see in the water that would scare me. I am very sad for the loss of the child and at the same time, I think people should pay attention to posted signs.


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## VegasBella

OMG horrifying.

When I first read this I didn't believe it so I found a news article.

http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-...-year-old-near-disneys-grand-floridian-resort


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## VegasBella

Admins: there's another thread on this same topic:
http://tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1896925#post1896925
Don't know if you want to merge?




presley said:


> While someone may not know about alligators, having no swimming signs all over the place would keep me from having my child in the water. It's the little things that you can't see in the water that would scare me. I am very sad for the loss of the child and at the same time, I think people should pay attention to posted signs.



From what I read there weren't "signs all over the place" and swimming was allowed in parts of the Lagoon - they had a lifeguard. The child was indeed in an area marked "keep out" or some such but it was not a "no swimming" signs all over the place kind of situation.


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## SMHarman

Tragic and that sign says no swimming which as a European living in the US reads to me as a liability disclaimer. 

It's also easy to argue that paddling in the edge water is not swimming.  Self propelling yourself through the water in a horizontal plane using arms and legs for power. 

DO NOT ENTER THE WATER 
Danger to life

Is a more appropriate sign here.


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## presley

VegasBella said:


> From what I read there weren't "signs all over the place" and swimming was allowed in parts of the Lagoon - they had a lifeguard. The child was indeed in an area marked "keep out" or some such but it was not a "no swimming" signs all over the place kind of situation.


The only article I read said that there were signs posted everywhere.
"Declan Salcido, who's on vacation with relatives from San Jose, California, was coming back from Disney's Animal Kingdom when the first ambulance arrived.
He said multiple "No Swimming" signs near the lagoon are visible "from any vantage point."

http://www.cnn.com/2016/06/15/us/alligator-attacks-child-disney-florida/


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## Kozman

VegasBella said:


> OMG horrifying.
> 
> When I first read this I didn't believe it so I found a news article.
> 
> http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-...-year-old-near-disneys-grand-floridian-resort



I don't usually post things that I haven't heard and verified from a reputable news source. Just last week I read on Yahoo News that Yellowstone was being evacuated and and the super volcano was in the process of erupting! It was completely false. Just proves you are wise to fact check.


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## presley

SMHarman said:


> Tragic and that sign says no swimming which as a European living in the US reads to me as a liability disclaimer.
> 
> It's also easy to argue that paddling in the edge water is not swimming.  Self propelling yourself through the water in a horizontal plane using arms and legs for power.
> 
> DO NOT ENTER THE WATER
> Danger to life
> 
> Is a more appropriate sign here.



That's a really good point. I was under the impression from other things I've read in the past that swimming was banned there because of brain eating amoeba. I wouldn't expect an alligator to go near someone who was ankle deep and if they know there are alligators in the water (they'd have to know since alligators are everywhere), they should have a picture on the sign of an alligator that says, "Do not enter water."

I don't know how the parents will ever sleep again. I'm so sad for them and for the whole area of Orlando. This is the third major tragedy Orlando has had in the past week. All really bizarre things that you'd never expect.


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## Passepartout

Too bad the alligator didn't take the parent instead of the child. Would've made a good Darwin moment.


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## CableMan67

Prayers for the family for this tragic event. We go on vacation and especially to Disney World and feel that everything is perfect and safe. Orlando area has just been in the news this past week, my prayers to all at this time. 

Sent from my XT1575 using Tapatalk


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## geekette

presley said:


> While someone may not know about alligators, having no swimming signs all over the place would keep me from having my child in the water. It's the little things that you can't see in the water that would scare me. I am very sad for the loss of the child and at the same time, I think people should pay attention to posted signs.



+ 1

There is too much "the rules don't apply to me" in the world and sometimes, the innocent pay for it.  

Ignorance on the part of the parents (re gators in water) wouldn't have mattered if they had only heeded the signs.


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## SmithOp

ace2000 said:


> The child was standing ankle-deep in 1 foot off the edge of a sandy beach.  I don't blame the parents.  It's just a tragic accident.
> 
> Here's a decent article including a picture of the beach area where the incident happened.
> 
> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...tor-near-Disney-s-Grand-Floridian-resort.html





Looking at these pictures I can see where lawyers will make the argument that Disney should have a fence along the waters edge to keep guests out and gators in the water.  The article says Disney was hosting a movie night on the beach they maintain (note the picture of the tractor grooming the sand).  There is also a shot of a fenced pool and playground next to this beach. 

I dont see any fault lying with the parents and the comment about Darwin is very bad taste and should be removed.


Sent from my iPad Mini 4 using Tapatalk


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## LMD

*Prayers for the family*

So sad and tragic. I can't imagine what those parents are going through this morning. As a FL resident we do not go near or in any lakes assuming there could be a gator however I would imagine someone from Nebraska doesn't necessarily think of things like that. My friend who stays at that resort all the time said the beach is very inviting and she could see how someone could let their guard down.  A gator would not have to be very big to snatch a small child either. When we were in Disney in May we saw a small gator in the same body of water as we were boarding the Magic Kingdom Ferry back to the parking lot.


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## presley

SmithOp said:


> Looking at these pictures I can see where lawyers will make the argument that Disney should have a fence along the waters edge to keep guests out and gators in the water.  The article says Disney was hosting a movie night on the beach they maintain (note the picture of the tractor grooming the sand).  There is also a shot of a fenced pool and playground next to this beach.


After reading lots of posts on a Disney forum, I've come to the conclusion that Disney is somewhat responsible because they didn't provide enough warnings. Other resorts in the area have no swimming *and* alligator warning signs by bodies of water.

Many people posted that they see poisonous snakes in that same lagoon. There are lots of people posting that they thought you couldn't enter the water due to the amoeba. Others have posted that "no swimming" means no lifeguard on duty where they are from.

Disney needs to put signs that say there is brain eating amoeba, alligators and snakes in the water. At the very least, they could post dangerous wildlife. They probably didn't want to do it because maybe people wouldn't want to pay $500..night to stay in the resorts that are on the water if they were scared. Disney held an outdoor movie night on the beach when this occurred. I just don't think they did all they could do to warn visitors how dangerous the water is. A fence around the water will probably help. I do see how they can be liable unless they had a disclaimer on the check in sheet signed by the person checking in that explained what goes on in the water by the resort.


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## rpk113

As a parent of young kids, when I see a no swimming sign.  To me it means don't go in.  I'm from NY with not too many lakes/non-pools around so my view is subjective.  I can imagine other parts of the country where lakes are where everyone hangs out and swims.  But in my own narrow view, no swimming = no entry..  My heart aches for the family...


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## Joan-OH

presley said:


> Disney needs to put signs that say there is brain eating amoeba, alligators and snakes in the water. At the very least, they could post dangerous wildlife. They probably didn't want to do it because maybe people wouldn't want to pay $500..night to stay in the resorts that are on the water if they were scared.



Has any Florida business ever posted a sign warning of the amoeba?  My nephew was a victim nearly 6 years ago at a wake boarding facility in the same season 2 other youngsters contracted it who also visited the same facility.  No signs anywhere.  The facility denies even having the amoeba.  It's kept so quiet that my my nephews parents, Florida residents for 10-12 years, didn't even know it existed.


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## Saintsfanfl

It is a heartbreaking tragedy to be sure and I hate to sound insensitive but this occurred at night. A toddler allowed to play in murky water at night in Florida really doesn't make much sense to me, but then again I live here. The parents were certainly ignorant but I do not see how the liability should fall to anyone. Gator signs in Florida should not be required because gators are literally in every single body of water that they can get to. The only gator signs necessary are ones asking not to fee the gators because that causes them to go after people for more free food.


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## Saintsfanfl

Joan-OH said:


> Has any Florida business ever posted a sign warning of the amoeba?  My nephew was a victim nearly 6 years ago at a wake boarding facility in the same season 2 other youngsters contracted it who also visited the same facility.  No signs anywhere.  The facility denies even having the amoeba.  It's kept so quiet that my my nephews parents, Florida residents for 10-12 years, didn't even know it existed.



The amoeba occurs naturally in every body of water just about everywhere, even in the north. If a sign is needed for something that rare then you would need a sign listing every possible disease or contagion known to man. It isn't realistic. There is no conspiracy to keep it quiet. It is all over the news when it happens. Fwiw a nephew of some friends of mine died from it from a lake a mile from my house. Heartbreaking.


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## Saintsfanfl

After seeing pics of the beach I am changing my tune a little. While I still do not see much sense in a toddler in the lake water at night the beach itself looks very "Disneyfied". Play set right in the background and the large man made beach is obviously there so people can lay around or play in the sand. An alligator can still snag a toddler from the sand even if they are not in the water. I was imagining a more natural lake setting which is what that lagoon looks like 99.8% of the shore but that beach is clearly there for kids to play. I think the resort has at least some level of legitimate culpability.

Marriott's Lakeshore Reserve has water between it and the golf course and it has plenty of gators. They have "no feeding" signs. If they put a nice sandy beach on their shoreline I think it would invite potential problems but I guess it is easy to say after this tragic incident just happened.


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## Bunk

Are there any fresh water lakes in south and central Florida in which swimming is permitted?


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## ace2000

Saintsfanfl said:


> After seeing pics of the beach I am changing my tune a little. While I still do not see much sense in a toddler in the lake water at night the beach itself looks very "Disneyfied".



Exactly what I've been saying.  The incident occurred right after sunset and there have been no reports of the toddler "swimming" as some have mentioned.  He was walking along the shore and standing one foot off the shoreline (in the water) when he was dragged into the deeper water by the gator.  It was also on a sandy beach area which probably was available to guests even during the evening hours.   I'm sure Disney will be paying.  Here's a picture of the beach.


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## JimMIA

It's now been announced that divers have found the child's body in the water just a short distance from where he was dragged in.  What a terrible tragedy.


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## dioxide45

This is truly horrific. I can't imaging the pain the family is going through. I don't really understand why as a society we must always find blame in everything. Some things are truly acts of god. We already have too many signs, warnings and small print. The family will have to live with the horror of this every day for the rest of their lives, that is truly punishment enough.


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## nightnurse613

Always room for parent shaming. Different time and outcome but a world of criticism.   Those who haven't had a close call or a similar tragedy should give thanks every day of their life.  Disney has every lawyer within 100 miles on retainer-good luck with a lawsuit. This Time article covered my thoughts.
http://time.com/4352116/cincinnati-zoo-gorilla-harambe-mother/


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## Rsauer3473

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=1017719814948788&l=ee7cfd04ff

This photo was taken just outside our room at Old Key West resort in October 2015. It was about 50 feet from our building but closer to the next building. We called the resort to report it. An animal control officer arrived within a half hour. He was sneaking up on the 7 foot alligator when it scampered back into the water. 

During most trips to WDW we will see a gator somewhere, but we have never seen one near the area where the child was attacked. Once we saw a partially submerged creature near Wilderness Lodge.


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## SunSand

I respect the overwhelming compassion here on Tug for the family. The family is from Elkhorn, Nebaska, an upper-middle class suburb of Omaha. These folks are highly educated and by all accounts an outstanding family.  I can imagine they just let guard down, becasue it was Disney.  Disney would never allow a child to get close to danger.  I beleived that too.  Extreme sadness for the family and this is a serious wake-up call to Disney.


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## Finntastic

Very tragic for this family.  I have to say if I was on that beach I would have a false sense of being safe also.


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## Finntastic

Simply heart breaking for this family.  It certainly gives me a new respect for alligators, especially when you think because you are on vacation nothing bad will happen.  We saw several alligators in the wild while in Hilton Head this March.  Most times we were a safe distance and stayed on the board walks.  While biking through Sea Pines we did see a 5 foot alligator just at the side of the trail. Kinda scary now.


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## HappyGoLucky

DeniseM said:


> It is very likely that someone from Nebraska did not know there are alligators in these lagoons.



You can add my family and I to that list. We don't have to worry about the wildlife at home and the thought didn't even cross our minds, the 10 days we were there. At that time, I naively thought it was only near the Everglades. Shame on us.

The most we saw were wild bunnies hopping around Wyndham Bonnet Creek.


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## dioxide45

Reading some of the posts over on Disboards, alligators is the furthest thing from most people's minds and many people didn't even think they were at WDW. I think one problem is that there are so many warnings and signs that we almost become immune to them. They don't mean anything. Kinda like the boy that cried wolf. Perhaps they need some animatronic critters to keep people aware.


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## TUGBrian

it is quite fascinating...i never give it a second thought that there are indeed alligators in nearly all bodies of water in florida (salt included)...its just a given being born and raised here and even so people regularly lose their dogs and other small pets to them if they live on lakes/ponds/etc. 

Things you take for granted that folks from the midwest or up north would never dream that a gator of any significant size can be sitting just inches from the bank of a body of water looking for a meal.

Truly a tragic situation, one I fear that will cost disney a very large sum of money and probably end up with some significant barricades to bodies of water on their properties.


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## JPD

If you ever go to Shades of Green resort (Military resort) on the WDW property, you will see baby gators all over the place depending on the time of year. We even saw one about 3 foot long hanging out in and around the area where kids activities are. We told the front desk and was told they are always there as it was not big deal.


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## MULTIZ321

Police Find Body of 2-Year Old Grabbed by Alligator at Disney Resort - by Camila Domonoske/ The Two-Way: Breaking News from NPR/ National Public Radio/ npr.org

"Update at 4:30 p.m. ET. Body of 2-year-old is recovered:

Police investigators recovered the body of a 2-year-old boy who was dragged away by an alligator at a Florida resort on Tuesday.

After hours of searching, police located and euthanized several alligators. They eventually found the intact body of Lane Graves.

During a news conference, Orange County Sheriff Jerry Demings said the boy was found not far from where he was taken by the alligator. "There's no doubt in my mind that the boy was drowned by the alligator," Demings said.

The alligator attacked the child at a sandy beach on a man-made lake near Disney's Grand Floridian Resort & Spa, shortly after 9 p.m. ET..."





Disney's Grand Floridian Resort, shown in 2014, sits on the man-made Seven Seas Lagoon lake. An alligator dragged a 2-year-old child into the water near the resort on Tuesday.
Frank Phillips/Flickr 


Richard


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## pedro47

JPD said:


> If you ever go to Shades of Green resort (Military resort) on the WDW property, you will see baby gators all over the place depending on the time of year. We even saw one about 3 foot long hanging out in and around the area where kids activities are. We told the front desk and was told they are always there as it was not big deal.



You can also see alligators on Hilton Head Island along some golf courses early in the morning.


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## Don40

This story breaks your heart, especially at the happiest place on earth.  So sad, but accidents happen all the time as parents we all have had lapses in judgments and the price we pay can be small or large in this case.  At Disney now and earlier this week saw the signs on the beach and wondered why they had no swimming posted.  We saw several people swimming and dismissed it without warning.  My first thought was the amoeba, not a gator how wrong I would have been.  

Prayers for the family as this can tear them apart.


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## VegasBella

It was incredibly rare. It's never happened before and unlikely to happen again any time soon. Humans are not normal prey for alligators, even tiny baby humans. The fact the the boy's body was found INTACT suggests the alligator didn't really like the taste. Or perhaps the dad was actually successful in fighting him off but the boy sank and drowned anyway. We probably won't know for sure. But we do know it's very rare. 

It's just so heartbreaking. I can't imagine anything worse than losing a child.


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## rapmarks

I am a Florida resident, when I see the way that beach is set up I can totally see someone thinking it safe to walk along the shallow edge and let a child play.  There have been many reports of an alligator coming out of a body of water and dragging a person who was doing gardening into the water in our area; I don't see how someone from Nebraska would know this.  
There is an area near us called Miromar Lakes (in Estero/Fort Myers) which has a beach set up on a large lake, cabanas, lounge chairs.  It is advertised as a beach community with 5 million dollar homes.  I always wondered how they could have this without concern about alligators.
I cannot imagine that poor family's anguish.


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## Saintsfanfl

Bunk said:


> Are there any fresh water lakes in south and central Florida in which swimming is permitted?




Hundreds if not thousands of lakes in this area have swimming, skiing, boating, etc. Not high class resorts and such but the people that live here. Hundreds of thousands of houses are on lakes in central and south Florida and residents and guests swim in the water all the time. There are some very cool state parks with lots of swimming. I have been in the water with Alligators visibly nearby many times. Wekiva Springs State Park comes to mind as a place with swimming and paddle boarders with Alligators fairly close. Alligators are not that dangerous unless you mess with them. A fatality from an alligator is extremely rare. Shark deaths or rare as it as especially compared to the numbers in the water but Alligator deaths are far more rare.


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## Saintsfanfl

nightnurse613 said:


> Always room for parent shaming. Different time and outcome but a world of criticism.   Those who haven't had a close call or a similar tragedy should give thanks every day of their life.  Disney has every lawyer within 100 miles on retainer-good luck with a lawsuit. This Time article covered my thoughts.
> http://time.com/4352116/cincinnati-zoo-gorilla-harambe-mother/



Do you really think Disney or DVC will take a hard-line stance against this family in a wrongful death suit? I am thinking quite the opposite. Disney is not Wal-Mart. They will take care of the family. If the family pushes hard then they will settle. Doesn't matter how many lawyers they have on retainer this one is never going to see a civil trial. That would be very bad PR and Disney would easily lose anyway. This is a very high profile story and anything putting Disney in a negative light in a contest with the family will cost them far more.

There is a difference between extreme gross negligence and some level of culpability in a wrongful death suit. Like Dioxide said nobody is directly to blame here. It was an act of nature. But our civil system is set up to assign percentages of fault to various parties. Right or wrong that is just the way it is.


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## swsc16

So devastating, and I still can't get it off my mind thinking of this family's horrific tragedy.


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## swsc16

I'm not sure if this is the right thread to ask this question (but also trying to avoid making a new thread for a similar topic).......

Going to Fort Lauderdale/Miami area in July and we're planning to spend a lot of time in the beach (yes swimming in the ocean).  I kinda read that alligators don't live in saltwater?  Do I have to worry about any alligators in the Ocean?  What other safety precautions do I need to keep in mind for the ocean?  I am from Los Angeles, so we frequently go to beach, but I'm just curious what are other special circumstances for Florida beaches?  It will be our first time in the area.

Also I'm getting the Go Miami card which includes several Gator attractions - Everglades Alligator farm, Gator Airboat tour.  I have a 13yo and 8yo and was initially planning to go to those Gator stuff.  I'm hoping those places have enough safety measures?  I'm actually thinking we should skip them not just because of worrying for our own safety, but mainly because of the gut-wrenching feeling thinking about what happened to this 2yo boy 

Sorry if this seems nonsense questions, but just want to be aware of safety precautions specific to FL.


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## chalee94

swsc16 said:


> Do I have to worry about any alligators in the Ocean?  What other safety precautions do I need to keep in mind for the ocean?  I am from Los Angeles, so we frequently go to beach, but I'm just curious what are other special circumstances for Florida beaches?  It will be our first time in the area.



shuffle your feet when walking in the shallows to avoid stepping on a sting ray.

jellyfish and sharks are unlikely, but would be more of a concern than gators.

the Disney story is a sad one but keep in mind that it's one instance in 45 years...


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## chalee94

Saintsfanfl said:


> ...never going to see a civil trial. That would be very bad PR and Disney would easily lose anyway.



again, this is the 1st instance in 45 years.  so I disagree with you.

But we are the nation that sued subway over 11 inch "footlongs" so we'll see how it plays out.


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## swsc16

Thanks a lot Charles.  I know we should go and enjoy our vacations, not to let this incident affect us, but be very careful and vigilant in everything.
Our 13yo knows of the news, I think he can handle knowing it.  But we're not telling our 8yo daughter, she will likely get traumatized specially when she sees a Gator when we go to those Gator attractions.


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## Quilter

Saintsfanfl said:


> Do you really think Disney or DVC will take a hard-line stance against this family in a wrongful death suit? I am thinking quite the opposite. Disney is not Wal-Mart. They will take care of the family. If the family pushes hard then they will settle. Doesn't matter how many lawyers they have on retainer this one is never going to see a civil trial. That would be very bad PR and Disney would easily lose anyway. This is a very high profile story and anything putting Disney in a negative light in a contest with the family will cost them far more.
> 
> There is a difference between extreme gross negligence and some level of culpability in a wrongful death suit. Like Dioxide said nobody is directly to blame here. It was an act of nature. But our civil system is set up to assign percentages of fault to various parties. Right or wrong that is just the way it is.



Tragic news.   

Look at the universities contributing to this website:  http://icwdm.org/handbook/reptiles/Alligators.asp

Here's a couple quotes from the page:  

Exclusion

Alligators are most dangerous in water or at the water’s edge. They occasionally make overland forays in search of new habitat, mates, or prey. Concrete or wooden bulkheads that are a minimum of 3 feet (1 m) above the high water mark will repel alligators along waterways and lakes. Alligators have been documented to climb 5-foot (1.5-m) chain-link fences to get at dogs. Fences at least 5 feet high with 4-inch (10-cm) mesh will effectively exclude larger alligators if the top of the fence is angled outward.

Avoidance

Measures can be taken to avoid confrontations with alligators and substantially reduce the probability of attacks. Avoid swimming or participating in water activities in areas with large alligators. Avoid water activities at dusk and at night during the warmer months when alligators are most active. Alligators can quickly surge at least 5 feet (1.5 m) onto the shore to seize prey, so care should be taken when at the water’s edge. Do not feed alligators. Avoid approaching nests and capturing young (2 feet [0.6 m]) alligators.

It seems negligent that the resort would host an event on the beach during times when they should actually be warning guests to stay away from the beach.   There should be "Beach Closed at dusk due to increased alligator activity".

I grew up in Florida and that beach looks very much like ones where I sunbathed and swam.  Increased evening activity of alligators wasn't something I knew even though we frequently vacation in Florida and SC.  While I don't know I'd be wading in the water, the drop off signs wouldn't deter me because I'm a capable swimmer.   It would be my knowledge and concern for moccasins that would be a deterrent.   That beach wouldn't necessarily cause me as much concern as other lagoons.   I wouldn't be as suspect of an alligator attack because of the inviting grooming of the water's edge.   

Saintsfanfl you mentioned Lakeshore Reserve in another post.   Now there's  a lot of water's edge I watch closely.   It's grassy and sometimes brushy and has signage.   There is a corner we have to walk when we come back from dinner at the JW.   It's down by where the zip line used to be.   Very dark and I have always been edgy anticipating an alligator lungeing out of the brush or a snake warming itself on the path.  

On a slightly connected thought, we were at the Desert Ridge JW in Phoenix.   Waiting for a table at one of their outdoor restaurants I see a toddler playing around in the rock mulch of a plant bed.   The resort has many people from the Midwest during March for Spring Training.   I tap the mom and caution her that scorpions and Black Widows come out at night and she shouldn't let her baby play in the landscaping.   Watching for desert bugs wasn't on her mind, getting dinner was.


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## Quilter

swsc16 said:


> I'm not sure if this is the right thread to ask this question (but also trying to avoid making a new thread for a similar topic).......
> 
> Going to Fort Lauderdale/Miami area in July and we're planning to spend a lot of time in the beach (yes swimming in the ocean).  I kinda read that alligators don't live in saltwater?  Do I have to worry about any alligators in the Ocean?  What other safety precautions do I need to keep in mind for the ocean?  I am from Los Angeles, so we frequently go to beach, but I'm just curious what are other special circumstances for Florida beaches?  It will be our first time in the area.
> 
> Also I'm getting the Go Miami card which includes several Gator attractions - Everglades Alligator farm, Gator Airboat tour.  I have a 13yo and 8yo and was initially planning to go to those Gator stuff.  I'm hoping those places have enough safety measures?  I'm actually thinking we should skip them not just because of worrying for our own safety, but mainly because of the gut-wrenching feeling thinking about what happened to this 2yo boy
> 
> Sorry if this seems nonsense questions, but just want to be aware of safety precautions specific to FL.



You will be around many intercoastal areas that are brackish water (mix of salt and fresh).   Alligators can be found in brackish as well as sharks.   

You may already know this because you're from the Pacific but don't go in ocean's edge at night.   Like alligators, sharks feed at night and come in close to shore.


----------



## dioxide45

Saintsfanfl said:


> Marriott's Lakeshore Reserve has water between it and the golf course and it has plenty of gators. They have "no feeding" signs. If they put a nice sandy beach on their shoreline I think it would invite potential problems but I guess it is easy to say after this tragic incident just happened.



I have seen a gator swimming in one of the lakes at the Grand Lakes property. It was up at the JW. It was way out in the water, but they don't stick to the water. There were lots of warning signs just as they have at Grande Vista. I believe I have seen the signs at all of the Orlando Marriott properties around the lakes.


----------



## Quilter

dioxide45 said:


> I have seen a gator swimming in one of the lakes at the Grand Lakes property. It was up at the JW. It was way out in the water, but they don't stick to the water. There were lots of warning signs just as they have at Grande Vista. I believe I have seen the signs at all of the Orlando Marriott properties around the lakes.



Are there groomed beaches on lagoons that invite sunbathing and evening gatherings at most of the big Orlando resorts?  Isn't there a beach area at Cypress Harbour?   I think it's the same body of water that surrounds the wild area with the boardwalk with warning signs for multiple species.


----------



## dioxide45

Quilter said:


> Are there groomed beaches on lagoons that invite sunbathing and evening gatherings at most of the big Orlando resorts?  Isn't there a beach area at Cypress Harbour?   I think it's the same body of water that surrounds the wild area with the boardwalk with warning signs for multiple species.



I don't know about Cypress Harbour, but Grande Vista has a groomed beach on the water. They also have evening activities like campfires and gatherings. The beach there is protected from the water by a white fence which you can see in this photo.


----------



## JimMIA

swsc16 said:


> Going to Fort Lauderdale/Miami area in July and we're planning to spend a lot of time in the beach (yes swimming in the ocean).  I kinda read that alligators don't live in saltwater?  Do I have to worry about any alligators in the Ocean?


NO.





> What other safety precautions do I need to keep in mind for the ocean?


Depending on where you are swimming, watch out for the currents.  Riptides are much worse in January-February than in the summer, but you still need to be aware of currents possibly carrying you some distance from where you want to go.  Also pay attention if there are any warnings at the lifeguard stations.  The waters are usually calm in the summer, but summer is also jellyfish and Man-O-War season.



> Also I'm getting the Go Miami card which includes several Gator attractions - Everglades Alligator farm, Gator Airboat tour.


Not quite sure what you mean here.  The Everglades Alligator farm has a pretty big facility near Homestead, FL, about 40 miles or so SW from Miami.  They also have an airboat ride there...which is pretty expensive, I think.  

You should not be paying more than $30 per person for airboat tours, most of which are 30-40 minutes.  Anything longer than that is a waste of money -- they'll just drive you around in circles and you won't know the difference.

However, there is another airboat place, Gator* Park*, which is on US 41 west of Miami -- about 50 miles from the alligator farm, and much closer to Ft. Lauderdale than the farm.  If your coupon is for Gator* Park*, I would pass because of their safety record.  They've got a bunch of young hotdogs driving there and their safety record leaves much to be desired.  They also feed alligators and other wildlife, which is illegal.  They're soon going to become concessionaires of the National Park Service, and when that happens (if anybody's got the backbone), they will be out of business or under new management.

I'd go a few (3-4) miles further west on US 41 to *Everglades Safari Park*, or 10 miles further west to the *Miccosukee Indian Village* airboat rides.  I've taken people on both, and both are very good.

All of the airboat places have the required safety equipment on their boats.  But the problem is not life vests, it's the person behind the wheel -- or in the case of airboats, on the stick.  The driver makes the difference.  

Everglades Safari will give you a smooth ride into a very pretty part of Everglades National Park, in a big boat which is very stable and smooth, driven by a guide who knows what they are doing.  I don't work for them, but I can tell you that when the Park Service takes VIPs on tours, they take them there.

Forget alligators and the horrible tragedy at WDW.  You will probably _see_ alligators (maybe not, they're very spread out in July), but they are nothing to worry about in an airboat.  Nothing will hurt you in an airboat, with the possible exception of getting hit by a horsefly as you roar through the prairie at 30+ MPH.


----------



## Helios

Very sad story.

Is this the same water body where Disney is building the over the water DVC units?


----------



## littlestar

moto x said:


> Very sad story.
> 
> Is this the same water body where Disney is building the over the water DVC units?



Yep.  

When we were at Marriott last month in Orlando, we noticed all the signs about alligators. I wonder when Marriott put in their signage - was it after the snake incident at Lakeshore?


----------



## Lisa P

We've seen the signs by water at many Orlando resorts going many years back, with alligator images, either warning people not to enter the water or not to feed gators.  For example, at least 15 years ago, we saw them at the HGVC at Sea World.  It startled me because our kids were younger and I had not realized how common gators were in populated areas.  But there they were, two small gators in the little pond, just beyond the end of a little pier jutting out into the pond.  Then we enjoyed looking for them once we got past the initial concern.

Wyndham Cypress Palms has always had similar signs with an alligator image, around the fountain pond there.  Again, our kids got a kick out of them, hamming it up in pictures taken next to the signs.  Given the international crowd that visits the area, those gator image signs are so appropriate.  I've seen them at multiple other resorts in Florida and South Carolina.  Never really thought about the fact that Disney didn't have them.


----------



## Bunk

The New York Post has run a series of articles about this:

One prior guest said that in 1988 when he was 8 years old he was bitten by an alligator near Fort Wilderness Resort.
http://nypost.com/2016/06/16/i-was-attacked-by-an-alligator-at-disney-world/

The father of the victim who tried to rescue his son was a former championship wrestler:
http://nypost.com/2016/06/16/tough-as-nails-dad-tried-to-fight-off-gator-attack/

The parents issued a statement:
http://nypost.com/2016/06/16/shock-and-grief-tots-parents-speak-out-on-fatal-gator-attack/

There was a prior warning that guests at Bora Bora Bungalow were feeding the alligators.
http://nypost.com/2016/06/17/disney-ignored-gator-problem-to-keep-high-end-guests-happy-report/

There are videos posted on youtube showing alligators within Disneyworld
http://nypost.com/2016/06/16/disney-world-is-crawling-with-alliggators-see-for-yourself/ 

Discussion of alligator attacks in Florida
http://nypost.com/2016/06/15/alligators-are-everywhere-in-florida/

Disney has a program of removal of alligators:
http://nypost.com/2016/06/16/gators-routinely-removed-from-lagoon-where-toddler-was-attacked/


----------



## Ty1on

Saintsfanfl said:


> Do you really think Disney or DVC will take a hard-line stance against this family in a wrongful death suit? I am thinking quite the opposite. Disney is not Wal-Mart. They will take care of the family. If the family pushes hard then they will settle. Doesn't matter how many lawyers they have on retainer this one is never going to see a civil trial. That would be very bad PR and Disney would easily lose anyway. This is a very high profile story and anything putting Disney in a negative light in a contest with the family will cost them far more.
> 
> There is a difference between extreme gross negligence and some level of culpability in a wrongful death suit. Like Dioxide said nobody is directly to blame here. It was an act of nature. But our civil system is set up to assign percentages of fault to various parties. Right or wrong that is just the way it is.



I agree with you  I think they will do everything they can to keep this out of the courts and get it off the front page as fast as possible.  I also think they will make policy changes that their PR will try to push to the front page.


----------



## ace2000

Here's a good story to get everyone up to date.  Discusses the potential lawsuit (which most FL legal experts agree that Disney will be paying) and the fact that another resort actually had people that consistently fed the gators on a beach close by.  

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...reveals-install-warning-signs-near-water.html


----------



## rapmarks

feeding the gators, oh yes.  We have friends that bought a villa on a small lake (we would call a pond) and fed the gators every day when they were there.  Despite the signs.    I remember my brother in law visiting and thinking I was putting him on when I said that there were gators in the lakes.  They move fast too, wish I could find the picture my neighbor took of an alligator coming out of the pond behind his house, crossing the street, and then walking behind my house and toward another pond.


----------



## SMHarman

rapmarks said:


> feeding the gators, oh yes.  We have friends that bought a villa on a small lake (we would call a pond) and fed the gators every day when they were there.  Despite the signs.    I remember my brother in law visiting and thinking I was putting him on when I said that there were gators in the lakes.  They move fast too, wish I could find the picture my neighbor took of an alligator coming out of the pond behind his house, crossing the street, and then walking behind my house and atoward another pond.


I posted something similar to this thought on Facebook. 

Rather than parent shaming, all those that have been feeding the alligators should be the ones feeling really guilty right now. 

That feeding desensitized the alligators to human contact and had them start thinking of humans and human space as a source of food.   Similarly the don't feed the wild bears signs and knowledge on the north east coast and other parts of the country is there for a reason to keep the Bears away from the humans. 

The humans that fed alogators or left food on this beach have a lot to be thankful for that it was not them.


----------



## davidvel

chalee94 said:


> again, this is the 1st instance in 45 years.  so I disagree with you.
> 
> *But we are the nation that sued subway over 11 inch "footlongs"* so we'll see how it plays out.


Didn't Subway win?


----------



## clifffaith

I've got to say that I would never have interpreted "No Swimming" along a Disney shoreline as no walking on the shore with my feet in the water.  

About 10 years ago we visited a wild habitat/park not too far from a resort in Hilton Head.  We'd parked and were starting to walk toward the habitat (this was in May) and some people finishing up their visit said "there is an alligator".  So we were walking along the grassy shoreline looking in the water.  Eventually we happened to look up ahead of us and found we were within yards of tripping over a HUGE alligator that was resting on the grass.  I think the water way curved slightly which caused our line of sight to look further ahead.  I've always wondered how close we would have come before noticing him if the stream hadn't curved.


----------



## VegasBella

Many parents are sharing images of their own children playing on that same beach to show why Lane's parents might have felt it was safe to let him play on the beach and wade into the water. Here's an example:






See more pics and read story of pics: https://www.buzzfeed.com/morganshan...graves-parents?utm_term=.pr1bVk8vW#.ohrQXB7zZ


----------



## am1

VegasBella said:


> Many parents are sharing images of their own children playing on that same beach to show why Lane's parents might have felt it was safe to let him play on the beach and wade into the water. Here's an example:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> See more pics and read story of pics: https://www.buzzfeed.com/morganshan...graves-parents?utm_term=.pr1bVk8vW#.ohrQXB7zZ



How many pictures are at night?


----------



## davidvel

VegasBella said:


> Many parents are sharing images of their own children playing on that same beach to show why Lane's parents might have felt it was safe to let him play on the beach and wade into the water. Here's an example:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> See more pics and read story of pics: https://www.buzzfeed.com/morganshan...graves-parents?utm_term=.pr1bVk8vW#.ohrQXB7zZ


Clearly, all of those parents and children should be rounded up and restrained. Lock the parents up for being so neglectful, as multiple Monday morning social media backs have declared that the child' parents are at fault. Send the kids to foster care where they will be safer.

These parents (and even worse parents that allow this at night) are obviously too concerned about their own fun to care about their children, and despite knowing that there are hungry gators all over the pond ready to leap and snatch their kid, don't care, and leave their kids there to be taken. 

Sincerely, 
Social Media


----------



## davidvel

am1 said:


> How many pictures are at night?


How many pictures show a toddler being snatched from the edge of the sand by an alligator? During the day or night?


----------



## Ty1on

davidvel said:


> Clearly, all of those parents and children should be rounded up and restrained. Lock the parents up for being so neglectful, as multiple Monday morning social media backs have declared that the child' parents are at fault. Send the kids to foster care where they will be safer.
> 
> These parents (and even worse parents that allow this at night) are obviously too concerned about their own fun to care about their children, and despite knowing that there are hungry gators all over the pond ready to leap and snatch their kid, don't care, and leave their kids there to be taken.
> 
> Sincerely,
> Social Media



I like the sarcasm. 

The fact is that there is no visible reason they should be restrained, and that is because the public has made the erroneous assumption that Disney is vigilant about removing gators and poisonous snakes from the area.  And they are clearly not.  

Regarding the comment about pictures like that taken in the evening, just because gators are more active at dusk doesn't mean they are only active at dusk.  Knowing what we know now, children shouldn't be in the water at any time.  Of course we collectively didn't know that a few days ago, because Disney posted no warnings.  And they _knew_ they're there, and can potentially move into that lagoon at any time, because they routinely relocate them.


----------



## CCR

I feel so badly for these parents.  What a horrible thing to experience.

We just came home from Disneyworld on June 4th.  We stayed at Sabal Palms and Saratoga Springs and no signs were posted at either resort that I noticed.  I told my kids when we first arrived at Sabal Palms (we had a ground level room that overlooked a lake and golf course) to watch for any gators while sitting in our screened in back patio.  They (including my husband) didn't believe me that alligators could be in the water.  

We rode the monorail over to the Polynesian from the Magic Kingdom.  The beaches created here are obviously man made and I can see where a family would assume they are safe.  I heard Alligators are everywhere but I also would assume Disney would be monitoring and ensuring designated play areas are safe. Chairs, beach toys, movie nights, etc all make you think this is an area to be playing in.  Where I'm from "no swimming" means no lifeguard on duty or no submerged swimming due to some other reason (steep drop off, rocks, strong currents).  It doesn't mean no touching the water or wading in it.

Just a horrible situation, very sad.  I'm sure many things will now change at these resorts to prevent this from ever happening again.


----------



## Bunk

Fences are now being installed:

http://nypost.com/2016/06/17/disney-finally-putting-up-fence-around-gator-infested-lagoon/


----------



## VegasBella

am1 said:


> How many pictures are at night?



It was "Movie Night" down there on the beach so there were plenty of kids there at the time it happened. Maybe not many pictures (who takes pix of movie night?) but still there were plenty of kids there.

I'm not saying the parents made the right decision to let their 2-year-old play at the edge of the water. I'm saying it was a common decision that many other parents made too. It was considered "normal."

Just to put things into perspective...

Drowning is a leading cause of death for young children. "From 2005-2014, there were an average of 3,536 fatal unintentional drownings (non-boating related) annually in the United States — about ten deaths per day." "Among those 1-14, fatal drowning remains the second-leading cause of unintentional injury-related death behind motor vehicle crashes."

CDC says "Most young children who drowned in pools were last seen in the home, had been out of sight less than five minutes, and were in the care of one or both parents at the time." Were those parents irresponsible? Yeah, probably. Should have had a child-proof fence around the pool and taught the kid to swim, etc. But how many parents have taken their eyes off their young children for a few minutes here and there? MOST parents have. A lapse in judgement is bound to happen every now and then. It's more understandable when the lapse includes something many people think is "normal." Most parents deserve sympathy when tragedy hits, not condemnation.

Citations for drowning info: 
http://www.cdc.gov/homeandrecreationalsafety/water-safety/waterinjuries-factsheet.html
http://www.cdc.gov/Features/dsSafeSwimmingPool/


----------



## presley

I saw pictures of the new signs being posted on the news last night. They have pictures of snakes and alligators and say to stay away from the water and not to feed alligators. I'm glad they are putting up the signs and the fence, but as far as I am concerned, this whole thing was an epic Disney fail. Employees have been saying they weren't allowed to stop guests from feeding alligators because they pay so much to stay there. Now, Disney is training their employees to take it more seriously.


----------



## jeffcarp

This was the first incident of this kind in the 44 year history of Disney World. I have a hard time characterizing that as an "epic fail."


----------



## JimMIA

jeffcarp said:


> This was the first incident of this kind in the 44 year history of Disney World. I have a hard time characterizing that as an "epic fail."


It's actually the second, but your point is well-taken.  It's certainly a very rare situation to have an actual alligator attack.  

There is, however, quite a bit of alligator-human interaction.  Alligators are seen daily all over WDW, and they are so common Disney has procedures and employees trained to deal with them.  It's not like Disney didn't know they were there.

Signs, legal liability, and questions about parenting aside, this is a horrible tragedy and I'm sure all of our thoughts and prayers are with the family.


----------



## rapmarks

VegasBella said:


> It was "Movie Night" down there on the beach so there were plenty of kids there at the time it happened. Maybe not many pictures (who takes pix of movie night?) but still there were plenty of kids there.
> 
> I'm not saying the parents made the right decision to let their 2-year-old play at the edge of the water. I'm saying it was a common decision that many other parents made too. It was considered "normal."
> 
> Just to put things into perspective...
> 
> Drowning is a leading cause of death for young children. "From 2005-2014, there were an average of 3,536 fatal unintentional drownings (non-boating related) annually in the United States — about ten deaths per day." "Among those 1-14, fatal drowning remains the second-leading cause of unintentional injury-related death behind motor vehicle crashes."
> 
> CDC says "Most young children who drowned in pools were last seen in the home, had been out of sight less than five minutes, and were in the care of one or both parents at the time." Were those parents irresponsible? Yeah, probably. Should have had a child-proof fence around the pool and taught the kid to swim, etc. But how many parents have taken their eyes off their young children for a few minutes here and there? MOST parents have. A lapse in judgement is bound to happen every now and then. It's more understandable when the lapse includes something many people think is "normal." Most parents deserve sympathy when tragedy hits, not condemnation.
> 
> Citations for drowning info:
> http://www.cdc.gov/homeandrecreationalsafety/water-safety/waterinjuries-factsheet.html
> http://www.cdc.gov/Features/dsSafeSwimmingPool/


you said it so well.    When our children were young, we almost bought a beautiful lot in a nice subdivision.  What stopped us was next door, right off what would be our deck, the neighbors had a big pool.  would you believe several years later, a child  who lived next door drowned in that pool .  That was bad enough, but the mother of that child had her reputation trashed.


----------



## Helios

littlestar said:


> Yep.
> 
> When we were at Marriott last month in Orlando, we noticed all the signs about alligators. I wonder when Marriott put in their signage - was it after the snake incident at Lakeshore?



I wonder how this will affect sales?


----------



## Quilter

Disney put in beaches to attract the crowd who want Florida beaches and Fantasy Land.   This is the knowledge most commonly understood by guests:  

http://goflorida.about.com/od/wheretostay/ss/wdw_resort_beaches.htm

The Grand Floridian touted a beach experience.   No swimming but nothing is mentioned about wading/playing/building sand castles on the water's edge.  

We visit Marriott's Ocean Point in the winter.   That's the season spinner sharks migrate and feed close to shore.   Okay, so no swimming or even wading in shin deep water.   But sand castles at the water's edge.   Who would think to worry?  

When the common impressions given by travel advertisers like the above is that the beaches are for playing (picture of mom's leg in the cabana while child plays at the water's edge) why would parents have an understanding of the inherent danger?  The resorts should be educating the guests to the nature of the local wildlife.   

This incident alone should have been enough to convince Disney to care for their customers enough to diligently inform them of the habits of alligators 
http://nypost.com/2016/06/16/i-was-attacked-by-an-alligator-at-disney-world/.

Hosting evening activities on the beach is more than negligent.   It goes to the exact opposite of the information they should be giving to guests.


----------



## Old Hickory

Bunk said:


> Fences are now being installed:
> 
> http://nypost.com/2016/06/17/disney-finally-putting-up-fence-around-gator-infested-lagoon/



Who is the fence for?  Us or them?


----------



## mtforeman

"Where I'm from "no swimming" means no lifeguard on duty or no submerged swimming due to some other reason (steep drop off, rocks, strong currents). It doesn't mean no touching the water or wading in it."

This has come up a lot.  Where I'm from, no swimming just means not to swim.  It doesn't mean you can't put your feet in the water.  There are lots of lakes that are "no swimming," but kids put their feet in all the time while others are fishing, etc.


----------



## hntngfamly

mtforeman said:


> "Where I'm from "no swimming" means no lifeguard on duty or no submerged swimming due to some other reason (steep drop off, rocks, strong currents). It doesn't mean no touching the water or wading in it."
> 
> This has come up a lot.  Where I'm from, no swimming just means not to swim.  It doesn't mean you can't put your feet in the water.  There are lots of lakes that are "no swimming," but kids put their feet in all the time while others are fishing, etc.



Where I'm from, if there was NO lifeguard on duty, there would have been a sign stating "No Lifeguard on duty". "No Swimming" means NO getting in. Period. NOT no swimming, but its ok to actually get in without submerging. But then again, I was raised not try & find a way around the rules. Perhaps one of several reasons we can't have nice things??

Even IF Disney's "No Swimming" signs on a beautiful beach, meant it's ok to wade or go in as long as you don't submerge because there is no life guard, doesn't mean I, my husband or our kids ever WANTED to get in that nasty looking water. Just beyond the shore, there's grassy swamp type weeds. What about that says the water safe or inviting, especially after dark?


----------



## klpca

mtforeman said:


> "Where I'm from "no swimming" means no lifeguard on duty or no submerged swimming due to some other reason (steep drop off, rocks, strong currents). It doesn't mean no touching the water or wading in it."
> 
> This has come up a lot.  Where I'm from, no swimming just means not to swim.  It doesn't mean you can't put your feet in the water.  There are lots of lakes that are "no swimming," but kids put their feet in all the time while others are fishing, etc.



I agree with this. I have seen no-swimming beaches but getting your feet wet isn't prohibited. 

In southern CA most of the beaches have "no lifeguard" signs because most of the year, there aren't any lifeguards. It doesn't mean not to go in, it means that if you get in any trouble, you're on your own to get yourself out. 

When there are sewage spills or pollution runoff (usually after a big storm) there are big orange signs that say "keep out of the water". That one is very clear. 

So everyone's interpretation of the signage is going to be different. I had no idea that you would be in danger at the edge of a man made lake at a Disney property. I've never been to Florida and while we have dangerous critters here, we don't have alligators, so I could have made the same mistake. I feel so bad for those parents who didn't realize the danger that their little boy was in, and I am sure that they wish that they could go back in time and change things.


----------



## joewillie12

Old Hickory said:


> Who is the fence for?  Us or them?


Fences obviously don't stop gators. Check out the you tube link below....crazy 
https://youtu.be/7Qp_bUYPrTg


----------



## wed100105

The more info that comes out regarding this incident, the more likely I would be to find favor with the parents vs Disney. The pictures of kids playing in the water, regardless of the time of day, would be enough for me to favor the parents in this case. If the water wasn't safe, then Disney employees should never have allowed people to be in the water.


----------



## MULTIZ321

Toddler's Father Says Two Gators Involved in Disney Attack - by Greg Toppo, USA Today/ News/ usatoday.com


"The father of a 2-year-old boy killed in an alligator attack near Disney's Grand Floridian Resort & Spa in Orlando told an official that a second gator was involved in the attack.

The Orlando Sentinel, citing public records released last week, reported late Saturday that Capt. Tom Wellons of the Reedy Creek Fire Department told two supervisors about the revelation — it came during an interaction with the child's father, Matt Graves, the morning after Lane Graves went missing..."





(Photo: Spencer Platt)


Richard


----------



## pedro47

MULTIZ321 said:


> Toddler's Father Says Two Gators Involved in Disney Attack - by Greg Toppo, USA Today/ News/ usatoday.com
> 
> 
> "The father of a 2-year-old boy killed in an alligator attack near Disney's Grand Floridian Resort & Spa in Orlando told an official that a second gator was involved in the attack.
> 
> The Orlando Sentinel, citing public records released last week, reported late Saturday that Capt. Tom Wellons of the Reedy Creek Fire Department told two supervisors about the revelation — it came during an interaction with the child's father, Matt Graves, the morning after Lane Graves went missing..."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (Photo: Spencer Platt)
> 
> 
> Richard



The Washington Post (7/20/2016) is reporting that the parents are not going to sue Disney.


----------



## rapmarks

http://www.naplesnews.com/story/new...nt-sue-disney-over-sons-death-gator/87337438/


----------



## MULTIZ321

And to piggyback onto Rapmarks post:

Family of 2-Year Old Dragged Away by Alligator Won't Sue Disney Over His Death - by Mahita Gajanan/ U.S./ Florida/ Time/ time.com

""We will solely be focused on the future health of our family"

The parents of the 2-year-old boy who died after being snatched by an alligator at a Disney resort in Orlando in June have decided not to sue Disney over the toddler’s death.

Matt and Melissa Graves issued a statement to KETV, an Omaha, Neb.-based ABC affiliate, on Wednesday, more than a month after an alligator dragged their son Lane into the water by Disney’s Grand Floridian Resort & Spa. The Graves said they plan to “keep his spirit alive” by establishing the Lane Thomas Foundation in Lane’s honor.

“In addition to the foundation, we will solely be focused on the future health of our family and will not be pursuing a lawsuit against Disney,” the Graves said...."

Richard


----------



## MULTIZ321

Father Tried to Free Son's Head From Alligator's Mouth During Disney World Attack - From Associated Press/ News/ The Telegraph/ telegraph.co.uk

"The father of a toddler killed by an alligator at Walt Disney World last June reached into the animal's mouth in an attempt to free his son's head from the reptile's jaw, according to a final report on the death released on Monday by Florida's wildlife agency.

The Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission report said that the 7-foot alligator bit two-year-old Lane Graves' head as the boy bent down at the edge of a lagoon gathering sand for a sandcastle at Disney's Grand Floridian Resort and that the boy died from a crushing bite and drowning.

Separately, the Orange County Sheriff's Office released its report and ruled the death an accident. One witness, a 16-year-old tourist, said he was walking with his younger siblings on a beach-area walkway when he heard a scream from the lagoon and saw the alligator taking the boy away..."





Lane Graves was killed by the alligator near Disney World.


Richard


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## clifffaith

MULTIZ321 said:


> And to piggyback onto Rapmarks post:
> 
> Family of 2-Year Old Dragged Away by Alligator Won't Sue Disney Over His Death - by Mahita Gajanan/ U.S./ Florida/ Time/ time.com
> 
> ""We will solely be focused on the future health of our family"
> 
> The parents of the 2-year-old boy who died after being snatched by an alligator at a Disney resort in Orlando in June have decided not to sue Disney over the toddler’s death.
> 
> Matt and Melissa Graves issued a statement to KETV, an Omaha, Neb.-based ABC affiliate, on Wednesday, more than a month after an alligator dragged their son Lane into the water by Disney’s Grand Floridian Resort & Spa. The Graves said they plan to “keep his spirit alive” by establishing the Lane Thomas Foundation in Lane’s honor.
> 
> “In addition to the foundation, we will solely be focused on the future health of our family and will not be pursuing a lawsuit against Disney,” the Graves said...."
> 
> Richard



I hope they are not pursuing a lawsuit against Disney because Disney said "here, let us write you a $$$$$$$$$$$ check for your foundation."


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## rfc0001

clifffaith said:


> I hope they are not pursuing a lawsuit against Disney because Disney said "here, let us write you a $$$$$$$$$$$ check for your foundation."



Disney absolutely offered a settlement in exchange for an agreement not to sue or talk to the press.  It would be a dereliction of their corporate responsibility not to.  At least the family is putting it to a good cause :thumbsup2:


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## pacman777

clifffaith said:


> I hope they are not pursuing a lawsuit against Disney because Disney said "here, let us write you a $$$$$$$$$$$ check for your foundation."



What do y'all think? Over or under $100 million for the settlement?  We'll probably never know as I'm sure non disclosure was a stipulation of the settlement.  I'm sure Disney opened up their checkbook to avoid a long drawn out trial that would've gone against them in the end anyways


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## clifffaith

pacman777 said:


> What do y'all think? Over or under $100 million for the settlement?  We'll probably never know as I'm sure non disclosure was a stipulation of the settlement.  I'm sure Disney opened up their checkbook to avoid a long drawn out trial that would've gone against them in the end anyways



I'd think at least $100 million. And I hope we hear in a few years what the foundation funds are being used for, whether sick children, scholarships or whatever.


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## FLDVCFamily

CCR said:


> I feel so badly for these parents.  What a horrible thing to experience.
> 
> We just came home from Disneyworld on June 4th.  *We stayed at Sabal Palms and Saratoga Springs and no signs were posted at either resort that I noticed.*  I told my kids when we first arrived at Sabal Palms (we had a ground level room that overlooked a lake and golf course) to watch for any gators while sitting in our screened in back patio.  They (including my husband) didn't believe me that alligators could be in the water.
> 
> We rode the monorail over to the Polynesian from the Magic Kingdom.  The beaches created here are obviously man made and I can see where a family would assume they are safe.  I heard Alligators are everywhere but I also would assume Disney would be monitoring and ensuring designated play areas are safe. Chairs, beach toys, movie nights, etc all make you think this is an area to be playing in.  Where I'm from "no swimming" means no lifeguard on duty or no submerged swimming due to some other reason (steep drop off, rocks, strong currents).  It doesn't mean no touching the water or wading in it.
> 
> Just a horrible situation, very sad.  I'm sure many things will now change at these resorts to prevent this from ever happening again.



No clue about signs at Saratoga, but I could see a sign at Sabal Palms from my unit as I looked over the water towards the gazebo. I was in the 4600 building, first floor. Every Marriott I've ever stayed in in Orlando has had gator signs, long before this incident ever occurred at Disney.


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## mj2vacation

Read "The People vs Disneyland" and then feel free to speculate...


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## elaine

signs all around lakes at Saratoga last week. So sad these weren't @ WDW hotels/lakes before.


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## Ty1on

mj2vacation said:


> Read "The People vs Disneyland" and then feel free to speculate...



Disney has aggressively fought frivolous lawsuits, as any business should.  This would not have been a frivolous lawsuit, and I'm confident they treated this devastated family with care and justice, while at the same time getting this horrible chapter out of the spotlight by offering a direct settlement.


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## littlestar

elaine said:


> signs all around lakes at Saratoga last week. So sad these weren't @ WDW hotels/lakes before.



Yes.  So sad they were not there before.  We had noticed them at other resorts in Orlando.  Always wondered why Disney did not have any warnings posted.


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## bendadin

We were at BWV last week and OKW this week. There are signs EVERYWHERE. That being said, my daughter and son walked ahead of me back to BWV from HS. My daughter came upon people standing in the water. She reminded them that they might not want to do that and that there were signs as well about alligators and snakes. They exclaimed that they had forgotten and hopped out of the water. 

Now at OKW we have seen LOTS of people walking in the grass along the lake. My daughter is again flabbergasted as there are warning signs that are maximum 50 feet apart. 

Sometimes people just don't think.


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