# Warranty Deed vs Recorded Deed?



## cadreamer (Apr 7, 2011)

I have a question about the difference between a Warranty Deed and a Recorded Deed.

I bought a TS on Ebay (impulse buy) from a seller who turned out to be related to Resort Closings Inc.  I paid closing costs, including the optional Title Insurance offered, to Resort Closings Inc.   

I never received any Title insurance/Title search documents and only received a Warranty Deed (photocopy) eventually because I called them after I received MF bills that were past due. I had nothing at that time to show the title had been transferred. The resort was good about reversing penalties while I tried to get documents from Resort Closings. The only document I ever received was a photocopy of a Warrenty Deed.

While this was going on, my elderly mother became very sick and was eventually hospitalized. I was too busy with her to pursue it.
I am paying MF's and Prop Tax, receiving the bills in my name. But something still feels unfinished with all this. 

My question is...is a photcopy of the Warranty Deed considered enough proof that the title has been recorded in my name, or should I be in possession of an actual Deed?  

Who/where would I contact in San Diego to check on the status, just to set my mind at ease?


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## theo (Apr 7, 2011)

*Recording is EVERYTHING...*



cadreamer said:


> I have a question about the difference between a Warranty Deed and a Recorded Deed.
> 
> I bought a TS on Ebay (impulse buy) from a seller who turned out to be related to Resort Closings Inc.  I paid closing costs, including the optional Title Insurance offered, to Resort Closings Inc.
> 
> ...



By definition, a *recorded* deed (whether warranty or quit claim) is one which has been officially *recorded* with the appropriate governmental entity (most often, the County seat in which the timeshare is located, but sometimes in a town hall in rural communities (e.g., Vermont). "Recorded" necessarily entails the assignment of specific Book and Page(s) or "instrument number", often both, indicated on each page of the recorded deed. San Diego, CA is hardly "rural", so I'd look for the County. Then again, it's California, so they might do things a bit "differently" (maybe recording is at the state level, instead of County, but I'd start with a Google search on San Diego and go from there).

You will not get a title insurance policy in the course of a timeshare transaction unless you specifically requested (and paid for) same. It would have cost you several hundred additional dollars, so if you didn't pay that "extra" charge then you won't be seeing a title insurance policy.

You don't mention whether the "photocopy" you received (as buyer, you should actually have received the original, after official recording), reflects county info at top of pages for date, time, book & page number or instrument number). If your "photocopy" lacks that info, you have absolutely *no* assurance that it was ever recorded at all. In many Counties, you can very easily check on line, entering either grantor or grantee name in a date-range specified "search" of "public records" on the County web site. I suggest that you find the County in which San Diego is located (easy enough with Google, Bing, etc.) and start there. If your photocopy already has the recording info (book & page, instrument number) indicated thereon, you are probably already holding the answer to your questions in your hands. That said, however, the fact that you say you never received the original of the recorded deed certainly calls for confirmation of recording, just to make sure that you don't have a falsified document with phony book & page or recording details). *Verify*.

The fact that you are receiving maintenance fee bills suggests (but certainly does not *prove*) that the facility got a copy of a recorded deed at some previous point in time, acknowledged you as the new owner and started billing you accordingly. However, a sloppy or inattentive resort might easily overlook the absence of any official recording info on a deed copy and just start billing you as a new owner anyhow.   

I hope this helps. At the least, it tells you exactly what you need to know and confirm and how to do so. The actual *confirmation* of deed recording details is now entirely up to you...


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## theo (Apr 7, 2011)

*Recording is EVERYTHING...*

Inadvertent duplicate post voluntarily deleted...


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## theo (Apr 7, 2011)

*Recording is EVERYTHING...*

Inadvertent duplicate post voluntarily deleted...


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## Talent312 (Apr 7, 2011)

As Theo says, a Warranty Deed is simply a type of deed which contain standard assurances by the grantor as to title they are transferring. Other basic deed types include Quitclaim which have no assurances, and Special Warranty Deeds which have only limited assurances.

None of these are "recorded" deeds, until and unless processed by the public records office of the county, parrish or township where the TS is located.  When a deed has been recorded, it does not necessarily matter who has the original, becuz a "certified copy" from the public records office is universally accepted as proof of the original.

Typically, to effect a transfer on its books, a resort requires that be given a certified copy of a deed which has the recording data that's been entered on the original (i.e. the book & page number). It would be unusual for a transfer by a resort to be made without an official certified copy.

--- Since you paid for it, you should contact the closing service and insist on getting (1) the original (or at least a copy) of the title insurance policy, w/o which you have no assurance that one was ever issued, and (2) the original deed to which you, as the buyer, are entitled.

-- Since you are being billed MF's, you may contact the resort to see what they relied upon to transfer title and to ask for a copy of their copy of the deed. But you may also contact the public records office and pay them to send you a "certified copy," if the deed was in fact, recorded.


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## theo (Apr 7, 2011)

*Certified copies...*



Talent312 said:


> Typically, to effect a transfer on its books, a resort requires that be given a certified copy of a deed which has the recording data that's been entered on the original (i.e. the book & page number). It would be unusual for a transfer by a resort to be made without an official certified copy.



In my own (admittedly few and limited) timeshare transactions, a "certified" copy has never been requested or required, but I always respect and value your input and I have no doubt that you are correct.

With the above requirement in mind (and with a transaction currently in progress), it now occurs to me   that I don't even know how / where / by whom one gets a copy of something "certified". Obviously, the original must first be firmly in hand, but *who* "certifies" copies?


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## vacationtime1 (Apr 7, 2011)

OP says he is paying property taxes, which means that the deed was recorded.  In California, property tax bills are separate, and the assessor works from record title.  That is why the assessor's parcel number is (supposed to be) on every deed.

If you need a "certified" copy of a recorded deed, you get it from the Recorder's office in the relevant county (again, here in California).

As Theo says, recording is everything in the real estate world.


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## theo (Apr 7, 2011)

*Uhhh..*



vacationtime1 said:


> If you need a "certified" copy of a recorded deed, you get it from the Recorder's office in the relevant county (again, here in California).



You are undoubtedly correct regarding that specific, isolated instance and example, but _in general_ I cannot imagine (...although I could certainly be wrong on this point) that one actually has to go back to the original point of recording in order to obtain a "certified copy".  

If I'm holding the officially recorded original right here in my own two hands, *surely* there is some less onerous, long distance, time consuming way in which to locally obtain a "certified copy"?


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## vacationtime1 (Apr 7, 2011)

theo said:


> You are undoubtedly correct regarding that specific, isolated instance and example, but _in general_ I cannot imagine (...although I could certainly be wrong on this point) that one actually has to go back to the original point of recording in order to obtain a "certified copy".
> 
> If I'm holding the officially recorded original right here in my own two hands, *surely* there is some less onerous, long distance, time consuming way in which to locally obtain a "certified copy"?



Because a certification means that the copy is a true and correct copy  of the registered/recorded original, logically, it is the government  official with custody of the original that must certify the copy.

The person certifying a copy of a deed in California would be the Recorder's office in the county where the deed was recorded (or in the case of a court order, the clerk of the court issuing the court order being certified, or in the case of Articles of Incorporation, the Secretary of State of the state in which the company was incorporated, etc.).

I agree; the process is onerous.  The good news is that one seldom needs a certified copy of a deed.  When a property is sold, the title company doesn't care what your copy of a deed looks like; a title company will search the Recorder's index itself before issuing title insurance.  

In this case, a certified is surely unnecessary; OP's receipt of a property tax bill tells him that the county thinks he owns the property and his receipt of MF bills tells him that the HOA thinks he owns it.  If he wants a non-certified copy of the deed (assuming his photocopy does not have a recorder's stamp at the top, which it may), he can probably get that online without paying the certification fee or going through that rigamarole.


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## theo (Apr 7, 2011)

*Thanks*



vacationtime1 said:


> Because a certification means that the copy is a true and correct copy  of the registered/recorded original, logically, it is the government  official with custody of the original that must certify the copy.
> 
> At least in California, the person certifying a copy of a deed would be the Recorder's office where the deed was recorded (or in the case of a court order, the clerk of the court issuing the court order being certified, or in the case of Articles of Incorporation, the Secretary of State of the state in which the company was incorporated, etc.).
> 
> ...



Robert:

I appreciate your input. I have never actually encountered within my own (relatively few) timeshare transactions *any* request or requirement for (or even any passing mention of) a certified copy of an officially recorded deed. Just the same, I thought it would be good to know the most expedient means to obtain one, if necesssary, but it appears that perhaps there *is* no "expedient" option...


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## Talent312 (Apr 7, 2011)

*Alright!* Perhaps a "certified" copy is not always or routinely required, as long as the recording information is shown and can be verified.

However, whenever I record a deed (I've done a few), along with the usual fee, for an extra $1 or $2 per page, the clerk will return both the orignal and a certified copy of the deed.  Originals do get lost or destroyed, but a copy certified by the records office will suffice as a substitute for it. Its been the certified copy that I've sent to the relevant transfer office. 

There's all sorts of situations where certified copies of stuff is needed, like for change of names on DL's or SSN's, or to get them in the first place. I'm a bit spoiled in that my job takes me into courthouses and other public offices, so getting certified copies of stuff is easy for me. But typically, to get one, all it takes is a request and a check for a nominal fee.


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## northwoodsgal (Apr 7, 2011)

Cadreamer,

Regarding the title insurance, I would look at the closing statement that Resort Closings gave you at the time of purchase and see if, indeed, you were charged for the title insurance.  If you were, Resort Closings can give you the name of the title insurance company that was used and possibly the policy number.  I would call the title company directly and talk with them about it.  They truly are an independent insurance agent.

If the settlement statement doesn't show a charge for title insurance, then Resort Closings likely owes you a refund.

As far as paying the taxes, who sent you the tax bill?  

Regarding the Warranty Deed copy, you may have received it because the original is still at the courthouse being processed.   It can take awhile and it really depends on the individual county as to how effeciently these items are processed.  Typically, the original copy will be mailed to the new owner directly from the Courthouse.

Here in Wisconsin, the typical case is that someone want to buy property and puts in an Offer to Purchase.  The Offer to Purchase is accepted.  Buyer requests title insurance to insure a clean title to the property. The title insurance company checks the courthouse records, makes sure the title is "clean", and agrees to provide a policy. Buyer is charged for the policy based on the cost of the property.  Some time after closing (usually within a few weeks), buyer receives the title insurance policy directly from the title company (buyer can't get the title insurance at closing because the Deed has to be recorded before the insurance can be issued).

After closing, the Deed is recorded at the Register of Deed's office and stamped with the date, time and fees paid. At this point, you have a "Recoreded Deed".  A copy of the deed is scanned in to the computer and pertinent information is recorded.  

The Deed then goes to the Property Listing Office, who then verifies the legal description can be accurately recorded.  They will make appropriate changes to the surveys, split properties in to parcels (if needed), outline new Certified Survey Maps on location maps, etc.  They will not make sure the legal is accurate for each owner but rather that it is a valid property description (for instance, I have seen Deeds pass through where a condo owner is given deed to someone else's condo).

Once that is done, the Deed goes to the Treasurer's office, who will change the name on the tax bill.  If you haven't noticed before, only the name(s) of the person on the Deed will have their name(s) on the tax bill.  So, if your tax bill came directly from the County Tax Office, I think you can be fairly certain your Deed is okay.

After this, the original Deed will be mailed.  If you look at your photocopy, there should be box (usually upper right corner) that states where it will be mailed to.  I would guess your name and address is listed there.

I would suggest you just call the County Register of Deed's office and ask them if they it has been recorded.  Any office can look it up by name. 

Please let us know how this turns out for you and good luck!


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## theo (Apr 7, 2011)

*Good thinking...*



Talent312 said:


> *... whenever I record a deed (I've done a few), along with the usual fee, for an extra $1 or $2 per page, the clerk will return both the orignal and a certified copy of the deed.  *


*

Great idea. Henceforth, I too will do just exactly that (starting with a closing in progress right now). 
I have never had the smarts or foresight to have done that in the past, having been entirely unaware of any need, but your approach seems both wise and inexpensive (not to mention eliminating in advance any need to seek and / or wait for a certified copy later).

Thanks again for good, useful information, of which you are consistently a welcome and appreciated source. *


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## Talent312 (Apr 8, 2011)

theo said:


> Thanks again for good, useful information, of which you are consistently a welcome and appreciated source.



As are you, and all the other contributors to TUG (well, most of 'em)!
We all learn from each other (so to speak).


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## cadreamer (Apr 12, 2011)

Thanks for all the info and advice. 

I'm going to start by contacting the resort to ask for copies of any deed or other document they have as record of my ownership. 

I payed for Title Insurance and was told I would receive the paperwork, but did not receive anything. I'll start tracking that down as well. 

The reason I'm becoming concerned is that I'm thinking of selling one or more of my TS, and I need to ensure I have all the paperwork required to do so.


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## vacationtime1 (Apr 30, 2011)

cadreamer said:


> Thanks for all the info and advice.
> 
> I'm going to start by contacting the resort to ask for copies of any deed or other document they have as record of my ownership.
> 
> ...



You should start with the escrow agent that handled the transaction and the title insurance company that issued the coverage (which may be the same).  If you paid for title insurance, you should have received a title insurance policy -- an official looking document stating that ABC Title Insurance company guarantees that the title is held by you.

You should also have received a copy of the deed bearing the recorder's office stamp (which may have been returned to the escrow agent and forwarded to you or which you may have received directly from the recorder).

If you did not receive these items, you did not get what you paid for.


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