# Borrow or hope to trade? Need help with math!



## glypnirsgirl (Jun 2, 2011)

Two weeks until the reservaton window opens for our BIG BLOW OUT FAMILY VACATION. Our family has gotten even larger and more complicated as our combined family is getting engaged/married. We are now up to 12 people going on vacation together.  

I have the following points:

OKW Points available 05/16/2012 without borrowing	279
OKW Points available 05/16/2012 with borrowing	509
OKW points are on a June use year.

SSR Points available 05/16/2012 without borrowing	400
SSR Points available 05/16/2012 with borrowing		600
SSR points are on a December use year.

Next May, I need the following:

2 2BR  each requires 269 OKW or 285 SSR
1 1BR requires 199 OKW or 227 SSR
2 studios each requires 99 OKW or 111 SSR

Because of personality, cicadian rhythms, and general affinity, I cannot depart from the above units. (The one bedroom is for Ian and I and I would rather reduce the number of days before subjecting my husband to having to share with anyone else or to having a smaller unit). 

We would like to all be in one resort, but will wait to move at 7 month window. I am trying to minimize borrowing OR to try to avoid borrowing from points on both contracts - and if necessary, I can cut this down to 6 days instead of 7 if I just cannot do 7 with what I have.  

If I combine RCI TPUs, I can have one DVC trade (contrast with 2010 when we were able to make 3 DVC trades = a real loss of trading power). Both SSR and OKW are relatively easy trades with 1BRs being the easiest trade to make. 

The best that I can figure out is that I am going to have to make reservations at each resort for the two bedrooms as I never have enough points to make both, even with borrowing. And then I get lost! My math skills have abandoned me! I need help figuring out if this is (1) possible; and (2) minimizing borrowing. 

Once points are borrowed, they cannot be banked - right? We will not be going back to WDW for another 2 years so I want to minimize the number of points that we borrow. (I have successfully rented points using a service so that is what will probably happen to the "thrown back" points).

elaine


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## MichaelColey (Jun 2, 2011)

How flexible are you on the dates and resorts?

If you have some flexibility (and assuming that your RCI exchange would be the cheapest), I would try to get one or two 2BR units through RCI (where there's very little TPU difference on different sizes) and using DVC points for the 1BR and Studios (where the point difference is huge).

Availability is generally better with DVC, so if you can get your RCI unit(s) through an ongoing search (hopefully right near the 7 month point) I would expect that you could easily get the DVC points units.

I can't imagine going to the Happiest Place On Earth with people who can't stand to be around each other.  (I'm sure there's many stories behind 12 people needing 5 units and 7 bedrooms.)  But that's probably best left untold.


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## elaine (Jun 2, 2011)

I am a DVC owner and RCI-DVC trader. For your dates, it is likely there will be at least a 1 BR or 2 BR trade thru RCI at either OKW or SSR. Start a search now. Make reservations for as many units as you can WITHOUT borrowing points.  It is easy to get SSR and OKW in May with DVC points--no need to borrow points to lock them in at 11 months.
Since DVC-RCI trades start at 25 points, even for the studio, I would not trade for a studio. 
DVC is not depositing as early these days, so May 2012 might not even hit RCI until Sept/Oct/Nov time frame.
Also, if you get nervous and borrow at the 8 months out time frame to ensure getting your units and have not gotten an RCI trade yet, and then you get an RCI trade, you are stuck with the borrowed DVC points, but you can cancel and bank your non-borrowed DVC points for some of the other units, assuming you are within the banking deadline--so, you could easily borrow from your June UY @ OKW and still be able to bank current DVC points if RCI came thru. 
As I see it, you need about 670 DVC points for OKW assuming 1 2BR RCI trade.  I would want at least 1 unit at OKW, b/c it has so much more space and can seat more for dinner. you can have 12 people in the OKW living area, no problem---there is no way you could do that at SSR. You have 679 current DVC points to work with--but your SSR have to wait until 7 months to book @ OKW. If you don't want to borrow, but want to solidify some parts and are nervous waiting so long, I would book a 2 BR @ OKW with current points, and borrow @ 7 3/4 months for a studio @ OKW. I would also book and a 1 BR and 1 studio @ SSR. Right @ 7 months (9AM) switch everyone from SSR over to a 2BR and studio @ OKW (I would borrow SSR points at that time--unless you want to roll the dice) and keep hoping for RCI trade and if one comes thru for either 1 or 2 BR, have MS switch around points so you can bank current OKW pionts. 
If you were OK to have someone over @ SSR, then I would not boroow points @ 7 months for the 2nd SSR-OKW switch unit and I would get either a 1 or 2 BR at OKW or SSR. I think your chances are excellent if you include both. 
Also, if you don't need more distance and privacy,  you can save points and book a 2 BR @OKW as a lock-out and then just leave the door bolted shut. This should be a guaranteed booking category for both OKw and SSR. Elaine


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## tomandrobin (Jun 2, 2011)

I would relax....You'll get your rooms.

Mid-May is a real sweet spot. Its not busy, availability will not be an issue at the 7 month mark or 6 month. 

Put in a RCI request....make it for a 2 bedroom (as already stated) and watch the sighting board. 

I would choose either SSR or OKW upfront and just concentrate on getting a room that resort. I would book a 2 bedroom lock-off now, since it can be broken into a studio and one bedroom later.


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## heathpack (Jun 2, 2011)

Keeping in mind that I know little about RCI, here's what I would do:
1.  Put in an exchange request with RCI for a 2BR unit at SSR now or as soon as you can
2.  Book the 2 studios and the 1BR at SSR at the 11 month window, borrowing 49 points
3.  Use the OKW points at 7 months to book the 2nd 2BR at SSR, borrowing 12 points
4.  Let the RCI request ride as long as you feel comfortable.  If you really need the unit and you don't want to stress about getting it, then I would not hesitate to borrow enough points at the 7 month window to get the second 2BR at SSR, but that's me.  It would stress me out too much to have 12 people depnding on me to monkey around with an exchange request too long, even if the exchange request had a great chance of coming through.

H


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## chriskre (Jun 2, 2011)

Ay yay yay!  

If my family gave me this much grief I'd put them in Vacation Village at parkway.   

Actually someone in my family did give me grief last year.  I did a reservation for some family members and they cancelled not once but three times within the 30 day window so I got stuck with holding points.  :annoyed:   Needless to say I was quite annoyed.  Lucky for me I live in FL and can go anytime I want to so I just forced myself to make another trip to Disney to not let those points expire.   

Now if my family wants to go to Disney, I'm not giving them my DVC points anymore.  My family has no clue that booking DVC isn't so easy.  Somehow they think it's like booking a hotel room.  So I'm just sayin..........:ignore:


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## glypnirsgirl (Jun 3, 2011)

*Thanks so much!*

It isn't my family, it's me. And y'all have given me the courage to just make the two two bedroom reservations and wait for everything else at the 7 month mark and/or RCI exchange. That will help me avoid the penalty for re-depositing the borrowed time - because I won't have to borrow any that I don't use. 

I have always made the reservations for this trip right at the 11 month mark. But I have never had so many reservations to make before. It will be really different to wait. But I think that I can handle it.

I am the one that figured out where each person should be. No one had any requests except that Jordan (not Rose although she was happy that he had)  requested to be with her mom and grandmother.

Everyone is grateful to go and no one has EVER no showed on me. I think that part of the reason is that I have always planned everything so far in advance and it gave everyone the sense that these "villas" are difficult to reserve (before all of the additions, it was just one grand villa for everyone).  Every two or three years, me, my son, sister, BIL, and brother have been doing these trips since 1994. Six years ago, we added my husband and two bonus children (2 2BRs). Then three years ago we added my son's wife, Rose (who we all love and is very easy to get along with), Rose's mother and grandmother (both also easy to get along with) - this will be their second trip, but first one was just the six of us - for the kids' delayed honeymoon. Now my bonus daughter's fiance. 

Rose and Jordan want to stay with her mother and grandmother because Jordan only has one week of vacation and Rose's mother and grandmother would be devastated if they could not see them during their vacation. Rose is an only child just as Jordan is. All 4 of them are compatible. They like to watch TV in the evening and get to bed around 9 pm. They wake up early, but are slow to get up and none of them care much for rides. 

My sister, her husband, bonus daughter and her fiance are all lots of fun. They love to stay up late, play games, talk loudly and then wake up late (they very seldom make rope drop). If Jordan and Rose did not have Rose's mom meeting them at WDW, they would be happy to stay in the fun condo and they would stay up late with everyone else because they are both flexible and congenial. In addition to staying up late, they wake up late. Everyone in the fun condo likes rides - they just don't see the necessity of making rope drop. Once or twice per trip my sister and bonus daughter will make rope drop. This is fiance's first trip -Ian and I both LOVE fiance. He is bonus daughter's third fiance and is the first one that we thought was right for her. And he is lots of fun. We are in great hopes that fiance will want to make rope drop. 

Then there are the two single men: my brother and my bonus son. Bonus son is a mess. He reminds me of PigPen from Snoopy. A mess just seems to be made in his wake. He keeps unpredictable hours. And he makes funny sounds. Compare that to my brother who doesn't sit down to eat until he has cleaned up the kitchen. He makes his bed immediately upon getting out of it. And he is rigid. He has an exact time to sleep, eat, nap, exercise, etc. WDW does not get in the way of his schedule. His schedule prevails. Because of that dramatic difference and the fact that my brother and bonus son have never spent more than about 20 minutes talking to each other on two or three occasions, I just do not think that they would work well in the same room. Because of how extreme each of them are, I thought that it would be best for each of them to be in a studio by themselves.

Next there are my husband and I. Ian is an engineer. He is particular, but not rigid. He RABIDLY DISLIKES television. He does not enjoy games. And he prefers to read in quiet. We go to bed when we want - I usually go play games in the fun condo in the evening and leave him in the room to read and relax. He and I always have a plan and we ALWAYS make rope drop. No one else wants to follow our Tour Guide Mike park touring plans. Ian and I are very compatible in terms of touring the parks.  

So, for the last big blow out, which was the same group except for Rose's mom and grandmother, my brother, and the new fiance (we had the second fiance at the last trip), I published our touring plan and marked a few things as mandatory and at a specific time: Osborne family lights and dinner at SCI FI Drive In, dinner at Artist 's Point followed by a Wishes fireworks cruise, dinner at the Rose and Crown followed by Illuminations, and the Grand Celebration at Animal Kingdom. It was a nine day trip, so every other day, we had one special thing to all do together. I marked on our touring plan which park we were going to and what time we would be at the bus stop and every one was free to join us or sleep in as they preferred. My sister (without her husband) made it to rope drop at DHS, bonus daughter (without old fiance) made it to rope drop for Magic Kingdom. 

Everyone accepts the fact that I am an absolute control freak about this trip. They are free to accept the invitation or decline and they know what is expected going in. Six years ago, I published rules that I wrote out that everyone has to agree to comply with ahead of time. Or they are free to stay home. (Rule number 1 is "If you accept this invitation, I will rely upon your acceptance and I will go to great effort and expense to make this a wonderful trip, you have committed to show up. No shows will be held against you in considering invitations for future trips." *In other words, for our next trip, you will get the Vacation Village at the Parkway if you accept and then don't show up.*


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## glypnirsgirl (Jun 3, 2011)

elaine said:


> Also, if you get nervous and borrow at the 8 months out time frame to ensure getting your units and have not gotten an RCI trade yet, and then you get an RCI trade, you are stuck with the borrowed DVC points, but you can cancel and bank your non-borrowed DVC points for some of the other units, assuming you are within the banking deadline--so, you could easily borrow from your June UY @ OKW and still be able to bank current DVC points if RCI came thru.



Ah ha! I knew that there would be an expert. It is throwing back the borrowed points that really had me in a tizzy - now that I know that I can throw back the "unborrowed" points, I feel much more confident about the plan.


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## glypnirsgirl (Jun 3, 2011)

heathpack said:


> Keeping in mind that I know little about RCI, here's what I would do:
> 1.  Put in an exchange request with RCI for a 2BR unit at SSR now or as soon as you can
> 2.  Book the 2 studios and the 1BR at SSR at the 11 month window, borrowing 49 points
> 3.  Use the OKW points at 7 months to book the 2nd 2BR at SSR, borrowing 12 points
> ...



I am intrigued by this suggestion. I had always thought that I would use the RCI TPUs for the one bedroom because I would be fairly certain to get it. Because I can only make one RCI trade, I thought that I would go for the most certain. I had not considered doing the more difficult 2 BR for my request.


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## glypnirsgirl (Jun 3, 2011)

MichaelColey said:


> How flexible are you on the dates and resorts?
> 
> If you have some flexibility (and assuming that your RCI exchange would be the cheapest), I would try to get one or two 2BR units through RCI (where there's very little TPU difference on different sizes) and using DVC points for the 1BR and Studios (where the point difference is huge).
> 
> ...



I am not very flexible on the dates except we can begin the reservation on Friday, Saturday or Sunday. 

I have made lots of RCI/DVC trades, but that has been for trips for just Ian and I and we have always gotten 1 BRs. (1 BRs feel so luxurious after staying in studios)! It is a great idea to get the most bang for my TPUs by trading for the 2BR instead. 

Because we 'disneyed-out' last year, I have not been tracking RCI availability closely, but it seemed to me that the deposits were coming at about 5 months instead of 7 to 10 months like they did last year. It is that short deposit time that has me the most concerned.


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## glypnirsgirl (Jun 3, 2011)

chriskre said:


> Ay yay yay!
> 
> If my family gave me this much grief I'd put them in Vacation Village at parkway.
> 
> ...



Oh Man! I would have been SO annoyed. I freak about borrowing points, I would really freak about holding points  Indeed!


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## glypnirsgirl (Jun 3, 2011)

tomandrobin said:


> I would relax....You'll get your rooms.
> 
> Mid-May is a real sweet spot. Its not busy, availability will not be an issue at the 7 month mark or 6 month.
> 
> ...



Thanks! You sound so certain of this - it really helped me to relax a little about this. I am going to try to make the trade for a 2BR instead of a 1BR - that will really help minimize the borrowing.


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## MichaelColey (Jun 3, 2011)

Personally, I think an ongoing search (or even two) started now for a 2BR at Saratoga Springs or Old Key West on the week you want in May 2012 would have a very, very good chance of getting filled 5-7 months out.

Just look through all the DVC Sightings from the past six months, and realize those are what's left over after ongoing searches are fulfilled.

I was surprised when I got my first 2BR DVC exchange.  Then surprised again when I got a 2BR somewhere other than Saratoga springs or Old Key West.  Then surprised again when I got a 2BR Wilderness Lodge.  Then surprised again when I picked up a second 2BR Wilderness Lodge for the same week.  Then surprised again when I got a 2BR Animal Kingdom Villas Savannah View.  In all, I've booked nine 2BR DVC units for stays THIS YEAR.  DVC units seem fairly hard to get, but a LOT of them work their way through RCI and they just don't stay there for long.


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## tomandrobin (Jun 3, 2011)

MichaelColey said:


> DVC units seem fairly hard to get, but a LOT of them work their way through RCI and they just don't stay there for long.



Since the economy crashed, and the switch to RCI....the number of units available for trade has greatly increased the past two years. Back when DVC was in II and the economy was cruising along, trades were not quite as easy....especially for 2 bedroom units.


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## elaine (Jun 3, 2011)

The only catch to banking current years points is that they then HAVE to be used the following UY---and you can only bank them at 4+ months out from you UY. MS should be able to switch your points out (switch OKW you borrowed for your studio to apply them to your 2 BR reservation, etc.)--but double check before you borrow any. 
It is hard to say waht RCI will do next year, but there have been a lot of deposits, esp. in not prime seasons. Again, if you could take either SSR or OKW, you have a much better chance of a 2 BR. You can always start a search and then watch TUG sightings at the 7 months mark everyday. We have found that many times, the weeks get deposited and sit online prior to being matched up. If anyone reports getting your timeframe and you didnot get a 2 BR, then modify your serach to a 1 BR and you should snap up something in the few weeks after that. good luck! Elaine


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## MichaelColey (Jun 3, 2011)

To give you an example of how easy it is to get a match with an ongoing search far enough in advance...

Last year, my brother and his wife expressed interest in going to Disney with us sometime.  I already had two confirmed 2BR exchanges for 2011 (Beach Club Villas in February and Saratoga Springs in April).  I got a third 2BR exchange (Wilderness Lodge) for April on 10/21/10 (a little less than 6 months out).  I talked to my brother and his wife.  I told them the three dates.  All three worked for them.  On 10/23/10, I modified an ongoing search that I had originally started on 10/4/10.  I set it up for just those three weeks, only for the resort we were staying at each week (BCV in February and SSR the first week of April or VWL the second week).  I fully expected that if I got a match it would be Saratoga Springs, and that there was a possibility I would need to get an off-site timeshare for them since I had such a restrictive search.  THREE DAYS LATER, on 10/26/10, I got a match for another 2BR at VWL for the second week of April.  I called my brother, made sure that still worked for him.  It did and I confirmed it!

I wouldn't expect something THAT QUICK, but if you look through the Sightings, you'll see that there are a large number of deposit that make it through.  I haven't looked in detail at the sightings for May 2011, but that might be a good exercise for you.  How many resorts got 2BR deposits for all four weeks?  When were they deposited?  Were there any weeks that didn't get any 2BR deposits?  I think you would be surprised by the results.

Of course things could change between now and 5-7 months from now(when I would expect to see a May deposit), but we always have that risk.  You have several things going for you.  It's a really slow time.  You have points you can fall back on.  You would be setting up an ongoing search WAY in advance, while all we see in Sightings is the leftovers.  And you're flexibile on which resort.


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## heathpack (Jun 3, 2011)

glypnirsgirl said:


> I am intrigued by this suggestion. I had always thought that I would use the RCI TPUs for the one bedroom because I would be fairly certain to get it. Because I can only make one RCI trade, I thought that I would go for the most certain. I had not considered doing the more difficult 2 BR for my request.



My thinking is that if your exchange reuqest comes through with RCI, you will save a few points by booking the 2BR through RCI. Micheal knows way more about RCI that I and he seems confident you will get your exchange, so why not get the biggest unit possible.

BTW, I want to come on your trip.  I am fine with sleeping on the sofa in the unit where everyone goes to bed at 9.   

H


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## glypnirsgirl (Jun 3, 2011)

*prioritize check-in day?*



MichaelColey said:


> Personally, I think an ongoing search (or even two) started now for a 2BR at Saratoga Springs or Old Key West on the week you want in May 2012 would have a very, very good chance of getting filled 5-7 months out.
> 
> Just look through all the DVC Sightings from the past six months, and realize those are what's left over after ongoing searches are fulfilled.
> 
> I was surprised when I got my first 2BR DVC exchange.  Then surprised again when I got a 2BR somewhere other than Saratoga springs or Old Key West.  Then surprised again when I got a 2BR Wilderness Lodge.  Then surprised again when I picked up a second 2BR Wilderness Lodge for the same week.  Then surprised again when I got a 2BR Animal Kingdom Villas Savannah View.  In all, I've booked nine 2BR DVC units for stays THIS YEAR.  DVC units seem fairly hard to get, but a LOT of them work their way through RCI and they just don't stay there for long.



I was pleasantly surprised when I looked through the sightings and saw how many two bedrooms were deposited. That made me hopeful that I could actually get a 2BR for the week that I need. 

I have never done an on-going search in RCI. Is it possible to prioritize check in date? For instance Friday, Saturday or Sunday check in will work, I would greatly prefer the Saturday check-in, then Friday, then Sunday. I really have no preference as to which resort, either OKW or SSR. So can I do an on-going for RD05 and RD06 in one search?


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## MichaelColey (Jun 3, 2011)

Also, keep in mind that there are sometimes MULTIPLE units available for each interval RCI lists.  Earlier this year, we were looking at bringing a bunch of family with us and we would have needed three 2BR units.  After a bulk deposit, I called RCI to see if any of the 2BR inventory listed had three or more units available.  At least one of them did.


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## glypnirsgirl (Jun 3, 2011)

*just curious*



tomandrobin said:


> Since the economy crashed, and the switch to RCI....the number of units available for trade has greatly increased the past two years. Back when DVC was in II and the economy was cruising along, trades were not quite as easy....especially for 2 bedroom units.



Do you think that the availability is due more to the downturn in the economy? or the move to RCI?

Is it possible that the on-line RCI portal where you can see the RCI resorts that DVC owners can trade into has improved DVC deposits?

I never considered depositing my DVC points when we were in II - partly because I did not understand how it worked and partly because I would have had to lug out my vacation planner. It is nice going through the RCI portal and seeing what I can get.

elaine


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## MichaelColey (Jun 3, 2011)

glypnirsgirl said:


> I have never done an on-going search in RCI. Is it possible to prioritize check in date? For instance Friday, Saturday or Sunday check in will work, I would greatly prefer the Saturday check-in, then Friday, then Sunday. I really have no preference as to which resort, either OKW or SSR. So can I do an on-going for RD05 and RD06 in one search?


Unfortunately, not.  I think you can specify ONLY Saturday, but I'm not sure I would do that.

Yes, you can specify a date range and just DV05 and DV06.  (Don't use the RD ones - those are rentals, not exchanges.)


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## glypnirsgirl (Jun 3, 2011)

*Thanks*



elaine said:


> The only catch to banking current years points is that they then HAVE to be used the following UY---and you can only bank them at 4+ months out from you UY. MS should be able to switch your points out (switch OKW you borrowed for your studio to apply them to your 2 BR reservation, etc.)--but double check before you borrow any.
> It is hard to say waht RCI will do next year, but there have been a lot of deposits, esp. in not prime seasons. Again, if you could take either SSR or OKW, you have a much better chance of a 2 BR. You can always start a search and then watch TUG sightings at the 7 months mark everyday. We have found that many times, the weeks get deposited and sit online prior to being matched up. If anyone reports getting your timeframe and you didnot get a 2 BR, then modify your serach to a 1 BR and you should snap up something in the few weeks after that. good luck! Elaine



I have banked points now on my SSR account and I have experience in banking points to save up for the GVs. I have always just made my reservations for when I wanted and left them there. So I have never "thrown back" any thing that I had reserved and that is the part that still has me a little squeamish. 

As you stated earlier, there is so much more room in the OKW unit, I would prefer there. Despite that I am so picky about where everyone sleeps, we all like to eat together and hang out for a little while until those of us that turn into pumpkins saunter off to bed or to decompress before bed.


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## glypnirsgirl (Jun 3, 2011)

MichaelColey said:


> To give you an example of how easy it is to get a match with an ongoing search far enough in advance...
> 
> Last year, my brother and his wife expressed interest in going to Disney with us sometime.  I already had two confirmed 2BR exchanges for 2011 (Beach Club Villas in February and Saratoga Springs in April).  I got a third 2BR exchange (Wilderness Lodge) for April on 10/21/10 (a little less than 6 months out).  I talked to my brother and his wife.  I told them the three dates.  All three worked for them.  On 10/23/10, I modified an ongoing search that I had originally started on 10/4/10.  I set it up for just those three weeks, only for the resort we were staying at each week (BCV in February and SSR the first week of April or VWL the second week).  I fully expected that if I got a match it would be Saratoga Springs, and that there was a possibility I would need to get an off-site timeshare for them since I had such a restrictive search.  THREE DAYS LATER, on 10/26/10, I got a match for another 2BR at VWL for the second week of April.  I called my brother, made sure that still worked for him.  It did and I confirmed it!
> 
> ...



WOW! That is some impressive trading!

I took your advice and looked at the sightings. It was a pleasant surprise to see how many 2BRs have been deposited. What is really amazing is how few TPUs it takes to snag a 2BR vs. a studio. The DVC point differential is HUGE: at OKW for our time frame, a 2BR is 269 and a studio is 99 points.


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## glypnirsgirl (Jun 3, 2011)

MichaelColey said:


> Unfortunately, not.  I think you can specify ONLY Saturday, but I'm not sure I would do that.
> 
> Yes, you can specify a date range and just DV05 and DV06.  (Don't use the RD ones - those are rentals, not exchanges.)



thanks for letting me know that I had the codes wrong! I will just ask for the small check in range and those two resorts then.

elaine


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## elaine (Jun 3, 2011)

take friday, sat or sunday and fill in with a nightly stay with DVC points, if necessary. I think they can link the reservation, so that you can keep the same unit--if you call MS a few weeks in advance. 
If you limit to only Sat, you just cut your chances by 2/3. When you get confirmed, you have 24 hours to change. You can always ask RCI if they have a Sat instead.
Last year, we got an Easter trade into OKW, but it was for a Friday check-in. We took it and just "ditched" the Friday, arrived on Sat and then added on a Friday night. Still totally worth it! Also, I looked for a few days after and never saw a Sat. deposit in RCI.
If you take a Friday, remember to call MS and tell them you are arriving a day late. 
also-re. your banked points--be sure to have them used for the reservations 1st (so the SSR 2BR that you then switch to OKW later)--banked have to be used in the next UY and cannot be extended. You really have to strategize with your UY (and pay close attention to banking deadlines) when decided what to throw back if you get an RCI trade. Elaine


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## glypnirsgirl (Jun 3, 2011)

heathpack said:


> My thinking is that if your exchange reuqest comes through with RCI, you will save a few points by booking the 2BR through RCI. Micheal knows way more about RCI that I and he seems confident you will get your exchange, so why not get the biggest unit possible.
> 
> BTW, I want to come on your trip.  I am fine with sleeping on the sofa in the unit where everyone goes to bed at 9.
> 
> H



Thanks, Heath. I am glad to know that my "control freakness" wouldn't scare you off. It is funny that I am such a control freak about this ... and Christmas. And my family has always tolerated it in me without complaint.

When my husband and i first got married, I was discussing Christmas plans with him and trying to integrate both sets of children and their plans with their other parents into our plans. Ian could not believe how much detail i wanted. He asked me, "do you think that you are the Queen of Christmas?" - I think that he was surprised when I told him that I thought that I was ... and I always had been. And then I called and asked my sister and brother if they thought that I was controlling. And they agreed that I was, but things worked out better that way. Jordan is the only child on my side of the family. So when I had him and had divorced parents who did not get along, I just insisted that everyone come to my house so that Jordan could have traditions that he was familiar with. Jordan is 28 now so I have many years of experience of being the tolerated control freak.

elaine


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## glypnirsgirl (Jun 3, 2011)

MichaelColey said:


> Also, keep in mind that there are sometimes MULTIPLE units available for each interval RCI lists.  Earlier this year, we were looking at bringing a bunch of family with us and we would have needed three 2BR units.  After a bulk deposit, I called RCI to see if any of the 2BR inventory listed had three or more units available.  At least one of them did.



Michael - when you reserve multiple units for the same day, do you have to buy a guest certificate? Or can you just all check in together without the certificate?

elaine


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## heathpack (Jun 3, 2011)

glypnirsgirl said:


> Thanks, Heath. I am glad to know that my "control freakness" wouldn't scare you off.



Are you kidding?  Disney trains us all to know where we are eating dinner 180 + 10 days ahead.  Your planning makes total sense to me.  The people who really freak me out are the ones who want to wing it- OMG, you don't know where/when you will eat dinner until the very same day?!!  GASP!

Then in reality, it seems like we change half of our plans at the last minute anyway and wind up winging it ourselves.

Your trip sounds like so much fun with all those people and personalities!

H


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## glypnirsgirl (Jun 3, 2011)

*Do you think that this will work?*

New plans. My brother wants to be in the fun condo, so that means a GV. I cannot afford a GV at SSR on SSR points even if I borrowed, so I will use current OKW points of 279 and borrow difference of 149 on OKW contract. I will place this reservation on the first day that I can for a Saturday check in. (That way I will have maximum flexibility/minimum point usage in case I get a different check in date for RCI exchange).

I will place an on-going search for a 2BR at OKW (will be locked into OKW due to GV points - and we all like to stay together) immediately. At the eleventh month mark, I will not make any other reservations using DVC points. At this point, I am going to assume that I will get the 2BR trade, but set aside enough points in case I am not successful. Only if I do not get the RCI exchange, will I make reservations near the end of January, 2012 to use DVC points. (I have never made reservations with that short of a lead time. But when I looked the DVC sightings, based on the last 2 years, it certainly does seem that there is no lack of availability - even for 2BRs).

On my SSR contract, I have 200 banked points that will expire in December, 2012. I only have sufficient TPUs to do one exchange so there is no point in doing a trade for the 1BR (unless the 2BR falls through) and I will use 199 points that would otherwise expire. Because there is no way for me to do 2 trades, I will make the reservations for the 1BR and the studio (99 points) at the 7 month mark.

If the 2BR exchange has not come through by 5 month mark, I will change DVC reservation to a 2BR and do new exchange request for 1BR? Or should I wait to 4 months?

If everything works as planned, I will have 102 SSR points to bank. And I will have borrowed 149 points on the OKW contract. I won’t be able to bank points until the 2BR exchange comes through in case I have to switch the DVC points to a 2BR and exchange for the 1BR. Now I need to look up and see what my banking window is. If I lose points to bank, I can rent them out instead.

Does this sound right?

elaine


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## glypnirsgirl (Jun 3, 2011)

heathpack said:


> Are you kidding?  Disney trains us all to know where we are eating dinner 180 + 10 days ahead.



LOL! I only make reservations for the 3 or 4 "mandatory" evenings and I make them 180 + 10 days out (bet you are not surprised). I try to only book park reservations at Epcot and do the rest in resorts so that I don't have to worry about getting park-hopper tickets in case there is a conflict between dinner reservations and TGM.

The rest of the time I cook. And I will not even bore you with the menu planning that I do because I accomodate my vegan husband and vegetarian bonus daughter. And I circulate the menus for comments and suggestions.



> Your planning makes total sense to me.  The people who really freak me out are the ones who want to wing it- OMG, you don't know where/when you will eat dinner until the very same day?!!  GASP!
> 
> Then in reality, it seems like we change half of our plans at the last minute anyway and wind up winging it ourselves.
> 
> ...



Thanks!


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## elaine (Jun 3, 2011)

that is a good plan. You can only bank at 4+ months out from your UY. So, June UY should be Jan. 31 banking deadline, Dec. UY should be July 31. If you have not gotten an RCI trade for a 2 BR at 6 months out, I would change my search to a 1 BR. I roll the dice, but only for so long, and I would rather have a "sure" bet at a 1 BR at that point than waiting for a 2 BR, esp. since you only want OKW. You can always add $79 trip insurance and trade up to a 2 BR, if one comes along later. The RCI rep and cancel and rebook right on the phone--I just did this for Hawaii when the big HGVC bulk happened last month--switched out in 5 minutes. 
Also, if you are getting a GV, then bigger space @ OKW does not matter, and you could also re-consider SSR, if that works better for your points. Elaine


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## MichaelColey (Jun 3, 2011)

glypnirsgirl said:


> I took your advice and looked at the sightings. It was a pleasant surprise to see how many 2BRs have been deposited. What is really amazing is how few TPUs it takes to snag a 2BR vs. a studio. The DVC point differential is HUGE: at OKW for our time frame, a 2BR is 269 and a studio is 99 points.


There's NO DIFFERENCE most of the time. Exchanges into Orlando DVC units require a MINIMUM trading power of 25, and most would be calculated at lower than that, so most are all the same (25). I think that's the big reason the 2BR units disappear so quick - if it costs the same, people will take the larger units even if they don't need them.

In general, RCI places very little premium on larger units. If a Studio is 18, a 1BR might be 21 and a 2BR might be 24 and a 3BR might be 27. That's why splitting lockoffs is so beneficial. Why take 27 when you can get 21+24=45? For one pair of my 2BR DVC trades (pre 11/15/10, and before they had the 25 TPU floor, which was about a week later), I actually used both the 2BR and 1BR side of one of my Branson 3BR lockouts for a pair of 2BR DVC units. I was flabergasted. Never expected the 1BR side to pull a 2BR DVC. (And it wouldn't, now that there's a 25 TPU minimum.)



glypnirsgirl said:


> Michael - when you reserve multiple units for the same day, do you have to buy a guest certificate? Or can you just all check in together without the certificate?


It depends on the resort, but usually not. With DVC, if you are checking in for your unit on the same day or before, you don't (at least if the CM knows what they are doing, which certainly isn't a given). If it's flipped around and you have others checking in first, you do need a guest certificate.


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## glypnirsgirl (Jun 4, 2011)

elaine said:


> that is a good plan. You can only bank at 4+ months out from your UY. So, June UY should be Jan. 31 banking deadline, Dec. UY should be July 31. If you have not gotten an RCI trade for a 2 BR at 6 months out, I would change my search to a 1 BR. I roll the dice, but only for so long, and I would rather have a "sure" bet at a 1 BR at that point than waiting for a 2 BR, esp. since you only want OKW. You can always add $79 trip insurance and trade up to a 2 BR, if one comes along later. The RCI rep and cancel and rebook right on the phone--I just did this for Hawaii when the big HGVC bulk happened last month--switched out in 5 minutes.
> Also, if you are getting a GV, then bigger space @ OKW does not matter, and you could also re-consider SSR, if that works better for your points. Elaine



It is the SSR points that I was worried about. Those points have a December UY so I will have plenty of time to bank them. That makes me feel much better!

I will never be able to afford the points for a 7 day reservation at GV at SSR. Our SSR contract is for 200 points per year and it takes 603 for a 7 day reservation.

I am going to try for the 2BR at just OKW. Mainly that is because i don't want my daughter in law's mother and grandmother to be left out. Rose's grandmother is in her 80's and needs a little help getting around and I do not want her inconvenienced by having to go back and forth between resorts. (When we were on the trip 3 years ago, "granny" was the life of the party. She had wanted to go to WDW since it opened and was thrilled to be able to go. She wore Minnie Mouse Ears every day - sparkly, rainbow colored ears!)

If the 2BR exchange doesn't fill, when I change to the 1BR, I will ask for all resorts. DH and I get up earlier than anyone else and we don't mind being away. Once dinner is over, Ian is ready to decompress and get ready for next day's rope drop so it will not be a big deal for us to go to a different resort.


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## glypnirsgirl (Jun 4, 2011)

My sister and brother in law came over this evening while Ian and I were discussing the plans for the trip. Before I started this thread, I had asked him to help me with an Excel spreadsheet and he did not think that i would need it. When I started explaining the nuances and parameters that I was dealing with, he went right to his computer to start a spreadsheet. "This is a lot more complicated than I thought." 

Ian and I were discussing this so intensely that I just greeted them and went right back to the WDW discussion. 

I told my sister what my plans were and that our brother wants to stay with her and BIL and bonus daughter so that they will be getting a GV. I mentioned Michael's comment about having twelve people and needing 5 rooms with 7 beds. And I was explaining my reasoning to her. Ian peeped up and said, "Can you believe what a control freak she is about this?" And my sister said, "Yes, because it is better her way." 

Ian agreed. He said, "I don't mind, she is so laid back about most things. She is just this way about Disney World and Christmas." (I thought, "Ahha, you are starting to understand me.")

It made me very happy.

elaine


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## heathpack (Jun 4, 2011)

You can get a GV, remember you can rent up to 25 points/yr from Disney now.  It would be a minuscule am't to rent 3 points.

PS I totally <3 your family.

H


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## glypnirsgirl (Jun 4, 2011)

I was re-reading this thread to pick up any nuances that I might have missed and I realized the importance of this strategy:



elaine said:


> ...Also, if you don't need more distance and privacy,  you can save points and book a 2 BR @OKW as a lock-out and then just leave the door bolted shut. This should be a guaranteed booking category for both OKw and SSR. Elaine



This is a brilliant strategy! 

Although I do not want to end up with a lock-off for the 1 BR and studio, (Ian will want more privacy than that), I think that it makes a lot of sense to go ahead and book the 2BR lock off at SSR instead of booking both a 1 BR and a studio. (1) it saves points because the 2BR is fewer points than a 1BR plus a studio; (2) it insures that we will definitely have a 2BR in case things don't work out; (3) if things do work out, I will not have any "thrown back" borrowed points when we change to OKW and a 1BR and a studio instead of the lock out. 

Thank you so much for this suggestion!

elaine


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## glypnirsgirl (Jun 4, 2011)

heathpack said:


> You can get a GV, remember you can rent up to 25 points/yr from Disney now.  It would be a minuscule am't to rent 3 points.
> 
> PS I totally <3 your family.
> 
> H



Thanks!

I love my family! Each of them is really special.

After Jordan's first date with Rose, he called me and asked me when I wanted to meet her. A really pleasant surprise because he had dated a lot of girls and when I would ask about meeting them, he would say, "You don't get to meet her, Mom." He went to meet her mother and grandmother (and aunts, uncles and cousins, too, it turned out) the weekend following their first date. When he came home from meeting her family, he told me that I would love her family because they were just like us. At the time, I thought that it was peculiar, but I remembered that he had said it. And he was right. They love to get together and play games and visit. They all tease each other. And they are all very loving and sharing. During the wedding preparations, I was always invited to everything: wedding gown shopping, flower arrangement choosing, catering decisions. Rose even brought me cake samples to try. They are wonderful.



elaine


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## glypnirsgirl (Jun 4, 2011)

Has anyone been in one of the SSR Grand Villas? Can 12 people sit down for dinner together?

Is there a table that will work for board games and cards? One of the great things about the OKW GV is the extra table that we use for games.

elaine


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## glypnirsgirl (Jun 4, 2011)

From Heath's comment about renting 3 points, I thought, wouldn't it be great to try somewhere new!

I went to the DVC site. I was excited about the idea of getting to stay at a different resort (Ian and I have stayed at several different resorts) because OKW is the only resort that the family has been to. Except for Jordan and Rose who went to AKV for their first anniversary - no one else has stayed anywhere other than OKW. 

 Not a GRAND villa at all! It is too chopped up and closed off. No extra table. Dining room separate from the living room. Just did not seem like a good place for the type of trip that I want this to be.


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## MichaelColey (Jun 4, 2011)

From what I understand, OKW is really the only DVC resort with lots of space.  We haven't stayed there yet (it's next on the list), but that's what I hear.

We've entertained (a total of 8-10 of us) at 2BR units at BCV, VWL and AKV (we never entertained at SSR, but it is comparable to VWL and BCV).  All were pretty tight.  AKV is a little larger, but still skimpy when it comes to dining area.  Six was a really tight fit around the table.  The rest had to sit at the bar or in the living area.  (Nobody minded.)


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## glypnirsgirl (Jun 4, 2011)

MichaelColey said:


> From what I understand, OKW is really the only DVC resort with lots of space.  We haven't stayed there yet (it's next on the list), but that's what I hear.
> 
> We've entertained (a total of 8-10 of us) at 2BR units at BCV, VWL and AKV (we never entertained at SSR, but it is comparable to VWL and BCV).  All were pretty tight.  AKV is a little larger, but still skimpy when it comes to dining area.  Six was a really tight fit around the table.  The rest had to sit at the bar or in the living area.  (Nobody minded.)



OKW is spacious. And it is still my favorite - except I liked the BLT one bedroom better - it felt really spacious. And I loved having the second bathroom. And Ian loved the sleeper chair. 

The main dining table seats 8 at OKW. And when we are ready to eat, there is a smaller round table in the living room that we can move to closer to the dining room so that everyone can participate in the conversation. 

I am considering numbering the seats and having everyone draw for their seat at some meals so that we don't get too locked-in to who we are sitting with. If we did this, then it would be fun to be at the table for 4 and getting to have a separate conversation. 

I remember Ian and I stopping to look at the DVC kiosk at Wilderness Lodge one evening on the way to Artist Point. It was before Ian and I were married and I was explaining the DVC system to him. At that point, I had owned DVC for 9 years. The presenter came up and overheard a bit of our conversation so knew that I already owned. She asked me where and I told her OKW. She said that she had noticed that OKW owners really only liked to stay at OKW and asked me where all I had traded into. I told her OKW. Really? Yep, OKW. I love it and I don't really want to go anywhere else (I am happy trying other places, now - preferably on RCI trades and saving my DVC points for OKW). She said she heard it all of the time and it was almost always OKW owners saying it. 

I think that you will love it. Several years ago on Mouseowners, there was a poll for whether people liked the hotel type DVC (BWV, BCV) or condo type (OKW, SSR) accomodations better. I prefer the condo type. They are more restful and relaxing to me. Most of the participants that I regularly interacted with over there owned at BCV or BWV so I was surprised that the majority of people preferred the condo style. 

elaine


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## Twinkstarr (Jun 4, 2011)

glypnirsgirl said:


> OKW is spacious. And it is still my favorite - except I liked the BLT one bedroom better - it felt really spacious. And I loved having the second bathroom. And Ian loved the sleeper chair.
> 
> The main dining table seats 8 at OKW. And when we are ready to eat, there is a smaller round table in the living room that we can move to closer to the dining room so that everyone can participate in the conversation.
> 
> ...



We tend to prefer the condo style resorts, for week long stays or over a major holiday. 

When we go for long weekend trips, we try out the "hotel" type resorts. It's funny when we try to put together our ABC list for a 7 month reservation. :hysterical: Everyone has their favorite and not too many overlaps! I usually have the final say, since I'm the one calling MS! 

After reading one of the "whine" threads about AKV on the DIS, DH says put it on the list to try. We'd been kind of on the fence about AKV,but the "halls longer than BWV" have intrigued us.

 We've found out over the years, the more complaining about a resort on the DIS= we'll probably love it.


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## MichaelColey (Jun 4, 2011)

glypnirsgirl said:


> I think that you will love it. Several years ago on Mouseowners, there was a poll for whether people liked the hotel type DVC (BWV, BCV) or condo type (OKW, SSR) accomodations better. I prefer the condo type. They are more restful and relaxing to me. Most of the participants that I regularly interacted with over there owned at BCV or BWV so I was surprised that the majority of people preferred the condo style.


We didn't care for SSR (theming mainly) but I think we'll love OKW.  AKV has been our favorite so far, but taking the boat from VWL to MK and walking from BCV (and BWV) to Epcot is awesome.  The only thing I think I might not like about OKV is if we end up in an upper floor in one of the units without an elevator.  Loading and unloading (and dealing with the stroller) are a pain with stairs.



Twinkstarr said:


> After reading one of the "whine" threads about AKV on the DIS, DH says put it on the list to try. We'd been kind of on the fence about AKV,but the "halls longer than BWV" have intrigued us.


The halls are VERY long, but if you're driving you just park in the parking structure (basically the first floor of the building) by your nearest elevator.  If you're taking Disney transportation and aren't close to the lobby, I could see how it would be a long walk.  But we always drive, so it's far better than most other DVC properties.


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## Twinkstarr (Jun 4, 2011)

MichaelColey said:


> We didn't care for SSR (theming mainly) but I think we'll love OKW.  AKV has been our favorite so far, but taking the boat from VWL to MK and walking from BCV (and BWV) to Epcot is awesome.  The only thing I think I might not like about OKV is if we end up in an upper floor in one of the units without an elevator.  Loading and unloading (and dealing with the stroller) are a pain with stairs.
> 
> The halls are VERY long, but if you're driving you just park in the parking structure (basically the first floor of the building) by your nearest elevator.  If you're taking Disney transportation and aren't close to the lobby, I could see how it would be a long walk.  But we always drive, so it's far better than most other DVC properties.



We've pencilled in a car if we are staying at AKV. We like SSR, DH had a case of theme overload when we stayed at VWL. :rofl: 

When we stayed at BWV we used the stairs mostly even though we were on the 5th floor. We were down on the end by Jellyrolls.


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## glypnirsgirl (Jun 13, 2011)

*the sage continues ---*

I can go crazy with this stuff. When I first started this trip, there were only going to be 9 of us. Then Jordan, my bio-son, wanted to add his mother-in-law and grandmother-in-law. No problem everyone loves Patsy and Sarah. Once I okayed that, he wanted to add my brother (who had not been invited to the last 2 family trips). So, I knew that there would be 12 of us when I started this thread. 

I assumed when figuring out configurations that my brother (1) would want to be by himself; or (2) no one would want to share with him. Nope, neither, 
my brother wants to be in the thick of things and it is okay with everyone he wants to be with. One more change, no big deal. We will get a GV instead of a studio and a 2BR. 

Now, my bonus daughter, the one that asked for this trip in the first place (so that new fiance can go to Disney for the first time and he can see how much fun we have on these trips), calls and asks to move the trip up one week so that she and fiance can go to her college roommate's wedding. Okay ... thank goodness she called me on the 11th of June. I send out an email to everyone asking if this is okay with everyone else - everyone who responds says it will work fine.

The next morning, I call DVC member services right at 9 am eastern and make the reservation for the 3BR GV. I get it, no problem. And put in the request for the reservation to be in a building with an elevator due to my sister's mobility issues. Good to go so far.

A couple of hours later, I get an email from my sister saying that her in-law's 50th wedding anniversary, which is on May 16th, will be celebrated on the 19th and 20th of May, which would have interfered with the first reservation, also. So, I don't know why they are just now telling me about it. 

Then bonus daughter calls back and tells me that they will be leaving on Thursday or Friday. My sister will be leaving on Thursday or Friday.

We will still have 8 people at WDW. We will still have a 2BR - I do not remember if a 2BR OKW will accomodate dinner for everyone. 

So, my brother is going to be in the Grand Villa by himself on Thursday and Friday nights? Or should I shorten the reservation in the GV to Thursday and have my brother move? It saves 69 points for a Friday departure and 127 points assuming Thursday departure. 

So, my question is should I shorten the reservation on the 3BR? It is a bunch of points to use for not much benefit. 

Ian and I would use those points to stay at the Disneyland Hotel at Tokyo Disney, so they would not be going to waste. 

Your opinion is highly valued -

elaine


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## MichaelColey (Jun 13, 2011)

glypnirsgirl said:


> We will still have 8 people at WDW. We will still have a 2BR - I do not remember if a 2BR OKW will accomodate dinner for everyone.


I've never stayed at OKW (our first stay there will be in August), but I'm SURE you could make it work.  We've had dinner for 8+ in some of the smaller 2BR DVC units (BCV, VWL and AKV), and OKW is supposed to be MUCH larger.



glypnirsgirl said:


> So, my brother is going to be in the Grand Villa by himself on Thursday and Friday nights? Or should I shorten the reservation in the GV to Thursday and have my brother move? It saves 69 points for a Friday departure and 127 points assuming Thursday departure.
> 
> So, my question is should I shorten the reservation on the 3BR? It is a bunch of points to use for not much benefit.


How much do you value your points?  $5?  (That's roughly what your MFs are.)  $10?  (You could rent them through an agency for that.)  $12?  (You could rent them directly for that.)  Assuming $10, that means it saves you $690 or $1270.  I would *definitely* make him move for that.


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## glypnirsgirl (Jun 13, 2011)

MichaelColey said:


> I've never stayed at OKW (our first stay there will be in August), but I'm SURE you could make it work.  We've had dinner for 8+ in some of the smaller 2BR DVC units (BCV, VWL and AKV), and OKW is supposed to be MUCH larger.
> 
> How much do you value your points?  $5?  (That's roughly what your MFs are.)  $10?  (You could rent them through an agency for that.)  $12?  (You could rent them directly for that.)  Assuming $10, that means it saves you $690 or $1270.  I would *definitely* make him move for that.



When you put it that way, I am sure that I could make him move. I value my points at their rental value. 

When we first bought our SSR points, we had essentially 3 years points (it's the reason we have that December UY) and we rented them through Daddio. At $10 per point, it was $6000, which paid us to pay retail for them. 

Thanks!
elaine


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## logan115 (Jun 13, 2011)

Heck, you could even give your brother $200 to go out and have dinner and drinks while he's "homeless" and out of a room for a few hours and still come out way ahead.

Good luck,

Chris


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## glypnirsgirl (Jun 13, 2011)

logan115 said:


> Heck, you could even give your brother $200 to go out and have dinner and drinks while he's "homeless" and out of a room for a few hours and still come out way ahead.
> 
> Good luck,
> 
> Chris



I could. But I won't. He can come eat peanut butter and jelly sandwiches and drink a big cold glass of soy milk with Ian and I. 

 

elaine


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## elaine (Jun 13, 2011)

if you are not borrowing points, I would keep all days of the GV until plans firm up, or you are at your banking deadline. And if you did cancel it, I would call tomorrow and get it back (for now). You can't get it back once it's taken.
Assuming no one's plan change further, then I would ask if he is OK to move.
2BR OKW is fine for 8 persons dinner--4 chairs at the main table and 4 chairs at patio table. Also, coffee table, where our kids eat "Japanese" style, if you have any kids going.


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## chriskre (Jun 13, 2011)

Oh Elaine.   

I feel for you my Disney friend.  Family just has no clue what goes into making DVC ressies and add in all these RCI ressies, well, ay yay yay.   

I warned you.


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## glypnirsgirl (Jun 13, 2011)

elaine said:


> if you are not borrowing points, I would keep all days of the GV until plans firm up, or you are at your banking deadline. And if you did cancel it, I would call tomorrow and get it back (for now). You can't get it back once it's taken.
> Assuming no one's plan change further, then I would ask if he is OK to move.
> 2BR OKW is fine for 8 persons dinner--4 chairs at the main table and 4 chairs at patio table. Also, coffee table, where our kids eat "Japanese" style, if you have any kids going.



Thanks, Elaine. I have had to borrow points for this reservation. I have lots of time to work with though. I think that the borrowed points are just gone? And when I cancel some of the nights, then I will need them to come from this year and bank to next. This will be the only trip we make to WDW for the next couple of years - but we want to go to Tokyo Disney in the fall of 2012 - so the banked points can be used for sure then.

Thanks for letting me know about the tables. We have 1 person in her 80s, 6 in their 50s and 5 in their 20s. The 20 year olds love Japan and they will be fine sitting on the floor around the coffee table.

elaine


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## glypnirsgirl (Jun 13, 2011)

chriskre said:


> Oh Elaine.
> 
> I feel for you my Disney friend.  Family just has no clue what goes into making DVC ressies and add in all these RCI ressies, well, ay yay yay.
> 
> I warned you.



I KNOW! This is the first time it has ever happened to me. And I don't blame my sister. She and Dan were fine with the first week. I changed it before making sure that it was okay with everyone. My sister doesn't live at her computer like I do. So, she just had not checked her email to see that we were going to be changing. And if I had waited, I would not have changed, I would have just let bonus daughter and fiance come late or leave early and leave everything else alone. Live and learn!

elaine


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