# Hilton Club NY



## 19038 (Feb 13, 2014)

Hilton Club NYC is now soliciting owners to pay to change from their current ownership through 2032 to perpetual deeds (e.g., $28,000 for 7000 points).  Is this a good investment for resale value?


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## Conan (Feb 13, 2014)

I consider the 2032 expiration a benefit, not a detriment.  Nice to know that if I'm alive 18 years from now my family won't have to worry about continuing the maintenance.


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## SMHarman (Feb 13, 2014)

19038 said:


> Hilton Club NYC is now soliciting owners to pay to change from their current ownership through 2032 to perpetual deeds (e.g., $28,000 for 7000 points).  Is this a good investment for resale value?



How much does a 7000 point contract cost on the resale market?

http://www.sellingtimeshares.net/category/listings/hilton/

Indicates $11k-$20k depending on location and you already have one of those that is good for another 18 years so mathmatically the answer seems to be no.  Better to buy an additional contract and take twice as many vacations.


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## 19038 (Feb 14, 2014)

Thanks for the helpful thoughts. I would not worry about my heirs having to sell it if it was likely to be sold at a substantial profit--but I can't ell what the probability is or what "perpetual ownership" vs. "2032" is worth.

I do not think resale prices for other HGVC properties are relevant, because NYC is a unique market--maintenance fees are high, but timeshares are much less common than in Vegas, Orlando, etc.


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## ocdb8r (Feb 14, 2014)

There is near zero chance you would be able to sell it at any sort of a profit.  Look at Manhattan Club, weeks can be had for VERY cheap on the resale market.  Perpetual ownership isn't going to make this any sort of "investment."


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## vacationhopeful (Feb 14, 2014)

ocdb8r said:


> There is near zero chance you would be able to sell it at any sort of a profit.  Look at Manhattan Club, weeks can be had for VERY cheap on the resale market.  Perpetual ownership isn't going to make this any sort of "investment."



MC is a totally different issue --- Hilton runs a much better operation.


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## 19038 (Feb 14, 2014)

I agree with Vacation Hopeful that Hilton Club NY is well run. Whether that translates into a perpetual deed being worth $4 a point above my existing 2032 deal is a different question.


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## dansimms (Feb 14, 2014)

*Option to skip it ?*

I assume you have the right to stick with what you have.  I would stand pat.


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## SMHarman (Feb 14, 2014)

19038 said:


> I do not think resale prices for other HGVC properties are relevant, because NYC is a unique market--maintenance fees are high, but timeshares are much less common than in Vegas, Orlando, etc.


OK here is a Hilton up for sale for even less.
http://www.search-house.com/homedet...b-New-York-5000-Club-Points_251296597027.html

There is plenty of foreclosure activity on the property.
http://www.propertyshark.com/Real-E...enue-of-the-americas-plagued-by-foreclosures/

Here is a Manhattan Club listing on NYT as well
http://realestate.nytimes.com/sales/detail/36-C1124372V/The-Manhattan-Club-NEW-YORK-NY-10019

So please don't think a Manhattan Timeshare has real estate value.

Even if you pieced together all 52 parts you still have a maintainance fee of $52k a year which would depress the sale of the whole ownership.


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## SMHarman (Feb 14, 2014)

19038 said:


> I agree with Vacation Hopeful that Hilton Club NY is well run. Whether that translates into a perpetual deed being worth $4 a point above my existing 2032 deal is a different question.



Well, lets put 7000*4=$28k into an investment account today and lock it up until 2033.  Thats 19 years.
Put that in a moderate return equity investment fund that over that time should average about 6%.
Compound that, in 19 years you will have about $90,000.

At that point the maintainance fee will also have gone up to how much?  The special assessment for a remodel?

My wild a$$ guess is that in 2032 you will be able to pick up 7000 points at the Hilton Club that someone else spent $28k to change to perpetuity for a lot less than the $90k you now have in your bank account.



19038 said:


> I do not think resale prices for other HGVC properties are relevant, because NYC is a unique market--maintenance fees are high, but timeshares are much less common than in Vegas, Orlando, etc.



A contrary opinion is that there are many hotel rooms so there will always be competition for bodies in beds and hotwire will get you a good rate at a good hotel.

If you want to give me $28k I guarantee I will buy you a 7000 point perpetual contract at the Hilton in NY in 2032.

Just sayin.


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## 19038 (Feb 14, 2014)

thanks, everyone, for your helpful thoughts, although I note that the foreclosure article is 3 years old and states that Hilton bought all of them back; a listing does not mean that you can get through the Right of First Refusal, which posters on other threads state has become much more difficult since the W. 57th St. property achieved its sales goals; the Manhattan Club, as other posters have noted, is not nearly as desirable as the Hilton properties; and Hotwire is not very helpful during peak periods when HGVC members can make reservations in advance.

Nonetheless, I am inclined to agree the HGVC proposal is not worth accepting.


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## piyooshj (Feb 16, 2014)

19038 said:


> Nonetheless, I am inclined to agree the HGVC proposal is not worth accepting.



A rule of thumb I've learned on this forum is any developer offer be it upgrade, purchase, converting to perpetual or whatever is NEVER worth it given their cost of sale and other gimmicks. Resale is always the way to go....


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## brp (Feb 18, 2014)

19038 said:


> I do not think resale prices for other HGVC properties are relevant, because NYC is a unique market--maintenance fees are high, but timeshares are much less common than in Vegas, Orlando, etc.



Agreed. We had HCNY and decided (after going to a presentation) that we wanted to change this to W. 57th for the perpetuity. As W. 57th points are being sold by owners for more than they originally paid (it's gone up about 7 times), this seemed a good deal.

Of course, we didn't buy from them, but went resale. They were willing to take our HCNY as trade at full value less the few years of depreciation, but we figured that we could still do better.

Resale on W. 57th wasn't cheap ($30K for 5250 points) but, in a separate deal, Hilton are buying back our HCNY at 50% of what we paid.

All-in-all, not a bad deal. More nights (slightly fewer points, but nights cost less at W. 57th) and appreciable resale value.

As an aside on the idea of resale value, many Disney (DVC) contracts are now going for more than they cost just a few years ago in reaale. It can happen 

Cheers.


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## Shelleyls (Feb 20, 2014)

I've made offers on 2 different Club properties over the last couple of months and Hilton has exercised their ROF in each case. I may be out of luck.


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## Carlsbadguy (Feb 20, 2014)

I was wondering at what price did Hilton exercise first right of refusal.


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## Shelleyls (Feb 22, 2014)

The last request was $1.00 a point which was an increase over my first offer earlier this year. Several years ago I was successful getting 7000 points in New York for .63 a point.


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## TheCryptkeeper (Nov 8, 2014)

Shelleyls said:


> The last request was $1.00 a point which was an increase over my first offer earlier this year. Several years ago I was successful getting 7000 points in New York for .63 a point.



Have you made any more offers recently for NYC/W. 57th St.?  Did any of them get past ROFR?  How much per point?


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## hvacrsteve (Nov 11, 2014)

I managed to get 2.40!
I took the money!
No fees this year, no nothing!


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