# Grand Mayan and Upgrades-What would you do?



## prcmd (Aug 16, 2010)

*Grand Mayan and Upgrades-What would you do? [2010]*

*Background information: *

4 years ago we traded in our previous timeshare in the purchase of a NV Grand Mayan biennial contract for a 2 BR which also allowed us to exchange in the off years, as long as we paid the maintenance fee.  It appears that every five years they can charge a renovation fee but they told us then it was improbable that it would be charged (of course we don't believe such promises).  

We've been very pleased so far with our exchanges with The Registry and SFX.  We think we are getting better "trading power", even though that great timeshare buzzword means everything and nothing and keeps changing in its specificity.  

The biggest problem with any exchange company is the uncertainty of getting what you want when you want it. 

*Our current situation:* 

We are attending an "update" on our vacation at the Acapulco Grand Mayan, which has a series of sales "hooks", starting off with:

Hook #1: How about no maintenance fees (MF) ever?  How about owning the 2 BR by shifting from a timeshare to a  private residence.  How about shifting from a biennial to an annual contract?  You should because timeshares are "dead" and "private residences" are in.  Why now? There's a new "law" that forces the company to offer this option. Also Grupo Mayan has been bought out by a company.  Now the new group doesn't want you to take this option.  They make more money if you keep things the same, ie. just keep your timeshare as it is.  And the first salesman you meet tells you that you should take this option even though his employer doesn't want you to take it.

Catch #1: converting to a private residence would cost up to $100,000.  Catch #2: you may think at first that all MF's will disappear but they won't unless you fully convert your timeshare into a a private residence.  

Comment: Yes, it appears that the sales people throw out a lot of exciting promises and conflate two things, buying into an annual contract and converting to a private residence.

Hook #2: The sales person states he is salaried and gets no commission.  He then details a 5 year plan but advises that we should decline that and only ask for a conversion from a biennial to annual plan.  This "option", which involves an annual contract and for the brand new and fancier Gran Bliss will  cost $15000;  they say the Bliss is preferable because all amenities including golf fees are free, you get a butler for your floor, and you have more "trading power."  

We balked, because we don't need something that fancy and don't play golf.  So the conversion price for an annual contract got whittled down to $9700 for keeping with the Grand Mayan.  

Hook #3: For simply converting to an annual contract: 2 BR for 3 weeks, MF is paid only if you use it, guaranteed time and place exchanges through "Holiday".  No more renovation fees every five years.  If you do make this conversion, then you are eligible to apply the capital invested in the timeshare toward purchasing a private residence.  

Catch: If you decline, you have to sign a paper stating so, and you may never get a chance for such a great deal again.   Supposedly it can only be offered once, though they never produce a copy of the law or a summary of the law.

This hard sell was at first cordial and involved up front a 10% discount for the week.  We then declined the offers, said we weren't ready to decide.  It then devolved into a more irritating and pressured exchange.  

After shaking hands cordially and signing the paper confirming our declining any offer, the third salesman wanted to make sure we understood the great deal that we might not be appreciating.  

When I stepped outside to leave, the original sales person followed me  to ask if I needed more time to think and how many days would I need.  I said three days.  That's where it stands.

My Questions: (Put aside the fact that the process of all timeshare sales in the US and Mexico are similar.)  Is it still worth it to put down the 9700 or a lower negotiated figure to avoid the 5 year renovation fee and get more "trading power" and three weeks max?  Will shifting to an annual contract really be an improvement?  Are companies like the Registry and SFX really becoming irrelevant?  

I'm sure I'm missing some details but any thoughts are welcome.  I am asking for practical advice.  If I'm not being fair to the sales persons, explain why.  (I don't begrudge their trying, but their ability to confuse is irritating).  If I'm correct in my assumptions, you don't have to second what I think is a confusing sales pitch, if not purposeful manipulation. Remember, we haven't been displeased with our exchanges so far.  I just want to be clear about what I may or may not regret someday.

Thanks.


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## DeniseM (Aug 16, 2010)

Your instincts are good - the TS sales people in Mexico are notorious scam artists.  Don't do it!


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## california-bighorn (Aug 16, 2010)

*I wouldn't even consider their "upgrade"*

Don't give them another cent.  You would have little or nothing to gain and they would have your money.
Anyway, you said you have been happy with what you have.......why mess that up?
We used  to have a very nice timeshare in Puerto Vallarta.  Every year we attended their owners "update" we were told our timeshare week was becoming worthless and we needed to spend thousands of dollars to upgrade and make it worthwhile.  We enjoyed many years with our "worthless" week.


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## mbtshoes (Aug 16, 2010)

it is very kind of you


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## pbdeguzman (Aug 22, 2010)

prcmd~
 We were in your shoes last July 4 when we went to NV. I was in the same exact situation when we went. Back in 2003 we bought 2 weeks in a 2 BR Lock out unit with Mayan Palace. We had a baby soon after and could not return to any Mayan resorts till July 2010.

This July we went with our kids and attended our first "owners update". They offered the same exact deal with an upgrade to the Grand Bliss for  approx $15,000 or Grand Mayan Upgrade for about $9000. It was high pressure and hard selling for the 4 hours we were there. Both me and my husband are well aware of the pressure and "to good to be true deals" these salesmen put on you. We kept our cool and focused on the key points that they brought up that in my opinion were valid. They pointed out something I did not realize: My Mayan Palace property in another 25 years would cost me another $19,000 in re resigration fees (something I did not know about or completely missed) renovation fees every 5 yrs and MF. In 25 years will my Mayan palace ownership be worth $12,000 (5x maintenace fees) approximating that my yearly MF will be in the realm of 2500. IN another 25 years would I reregister at this cost?? Probably not. Who knows what Mayan Palace will look like then??

I have two young girls 6 and 4 y/o. We were set on buying a Disney Timeshare and were ready to spend another $15,000 next year. With my Mayan Palace week, It was very hard to trade into Disney property through RCI. With the upgrade to the Grand Bliss we will now trade with the registry collection and will probably get into Disney a little easier. 

To cut the story short, we upgraded to the Grand Bliss. Primarily because of the hopefully easier trading into Disney. In a way, Im glad we did not buy Disney since who knows when my girls will get sick with Mickey and start asking to go to Universal or some other exotic places. With the Registry collection, I keep my options open and have better and nicer resorts to choose from. The concierge service with THe Registry Collection is awesome by the way...

Yes, Grupo Mayan time share people SUCK. I sometimes think " did I get scammed" and it leaves a sick feeling to my stomach.  Reading all the bad publicity about Grupo mayan just makes it worse. Mind you, even if we were fully aware of the ethincs and poor practices of the sales people of grupo mayan my husband and I still upgraded to the Grand Bliss. Why? Because of the quality of the resort and its affiliation with The Registry collection. We were smart and more experienced to believe that we could rent our units thrugh 3rd parties for a ginormous amount of money that would cover our MF. Nope, we didnt fall for that one and I quickly shut that topic down as soon as our salesperson started to go that route. This seems to be a key point of everyone who complains about Grupo Mayan. I USE my timeshare. I do not rent it and  I know better than to think of my property as an investment property. Also, you are not buying the salesperson. You are buying time in a luxurious place, with beautiful pools with friendly people who treat you right.

Good luck in your decision. We are new owners with the Grand Bliss, and have no complaints, so far.... Its only been a couple of weeks and so far the treatment and experience (ie a fancy beach towel as a welcome package to the Grand Bliss) has been great.


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## mikenk (Aug 22, 2010)

prcmd,

Whew! The friendly GM sales force is throwing a lot at you; most of what they say will always be severely tainted in order to separate you from your money. I am an owner there and love the resorts and have upgraded and spent lots of time dealing with member services (not the sales force) to negotiate upgrades. from your message, you are not ready to be chunking down more money until you really understand all the options and ramifications.

It sounds like the bottom line is they are trying to convert you for $9700 from a biennial to an annual Grand Mayan contract, which will also not have the five year renovation fee or the MF required unless you use, right? if you are happy with the trading power you have and you use it, why would you change? it would seem that that same $9700 could be much better used to achieve that end. 

Don't believe in a minute that they won't make similar offers in the future. My advice -  pass, but see if you can bypass the sales folks and find a real contracts person to start an email discussion with to learn. Realistically as bad as I feel the sales people are, I have found the member services people OK to deal with. However, you need to learn and understand first.

Mike


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## solomobk (Jul 28, 2011)

mikenk said:


> prcmd,
> 
> Whew! The friendly GM sales force is throwing a lot at you; most of what they say will always be severely tainted in order to separate you from your money. I am an owner there and love the resorts and have upgraded and spent lots of time dealing with member services (not the sales force) to negotiate upgrades. from your message, you are not ready to be chunking down more money until you really understand all the options and ramifications.
> 
> ...



Hi,

I co-own a Master Suite at the Grand Mayan NV and the other owner went to an owners presentation in June while there and signed us up for an upgrade.  The premise was that our last upgrade done in 2006 (1 year after our purchase) included that we must pay a  maintenance fee every 5 years.  The upgrade costs us $10k and is good for 10 years saying that we will not have any more MFs and has the dont use dont pay clause in it.  Supposedly if we did not upgrade we had to pay $4500 or so now for the 5 year fee.  They are also giving us 2 VF weeks or now called Residence weeks instead of 1 in addition to our 1 Registered Week.  I am trying to understand what we are getting for the $10k.  If we had to pay $4500 now and again in 5 years then we in essence are prepaying and that is giving us 1 more Residence week.  Still this is no deal.  Can anyone help me understand if I am missing something.  I appreciate in advance any guidance you can provide.


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## mikenk (Jul 28, 2011)

It's weird to read through an old thread thinking it's new and reading your own post from a year ago.

 Solomobk, In your case, whether it is an OK deal depends on the contract details. From your description, I don't think the co-owner did the homework properly. Did the co-owner have the contractual right to obligate both of you? In other words, can you back out?

You mentioned an upgrade. Is this new contract for the Grand Mayan or the Grand Bliss? Did you get any other new benefits in the contract?  The cost seems too high if it is the same level you had before?

In general, the old contracts were written for 25 year periods with 5 year renovation fees. The new contracts are 10 years of the registered week and 100 years for two additional residence weeks (basically no renovation fees). The residence weeks are similar to the old vacation fair weeks with reduced availability from the registered week. Most of us that upgraded to the new plan insisted on and received an addendum to the contract stating that one of the residence weeks takes on all of the benefits of the registered week after 10 years. Did you receive this addendum?

Sorry for so many questions but Grand Mayan upgrades are complex - could be a good deal if negotiated or a bad deal. The first step is the read the contract very carefully and all the addenda to see what you have.  BTW, the no use no pay is a nice feature; make sure it is in the contract.

I am assuming your co-owner obligated you as he or she was probably designated as the primary owner. If so, you can complain through member services after the fact to get clarifying addenda added to the contract. There is a Karen Rose of GM that monitors this forum that you can email for questions. Search on Grand Mayan and you will find her address. 

Mike


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## pittle (Jul 28, 2011)

In January 2011, when I was at the Mayan Palace in Acapulco, I took the update breakfast.  I had no intention of upgrading, but did want to hear first-hand what was on the table now days.  I told them right up front that there was no way that I would upgrade at the time because my husband was in the USA and I was on a vacation with a friend.  I did tell them that I was interested in learning about the changes in Acapulco and the rest of the Grupo Mayan world.

We own 4 Mayan Palace units and 2 Grand Mayan units and already have the no maintenance fees unless you go feature on all but one week.   We have the Senior Certificates and our Grand Mayan contracts have the Profile A status.  We do pay the 5 year renovation fees on all of our contracts, but those do not all hit at the same year, so we just budget for it.  The renovation fees are equal to 1 maintenance fee.  

Because I assumed that they would hit me up to upgrade even without hubby,  I calculated how much the 5 year fees would be for all of my contracts until they hit the 25 year contract renewal option (which we will not be doing).  I also added in the maintenance fees for the one unit we must pay each year and an amount for the units that we generally use each year.   I had factored in the maximum m/f increase into my calculations too.  So, I had my $ amount on a 3x5 in my pocket.  They used the tactic of how much money I would be paying and it was much higher than the number I had, so the amount they said I would “save” was not accurate for us.

When it got down to the absolute bottom line, they offered me 4 Grand Bliss weeks for the 6 weeks we already have plus $13,000.  They said that I would still have a maximum of 12 weeks each year like I do now.  The maintenance fees would be much higher for any weeks that I would have wanted to use and the 25 year contract would start over.  I said no thanks. 

I still cannot believe that they expected me to upgrade when I told them several times that I would not do so with my husband not there with me.  The gal would not let me leave without signing the document that I had been offered to upgrade and declined and could not recieve an offer again.  I kept saying that I did not want to sign anything without hubby, but she said that was just for offers made in January 2011 and since it was January 26, I signed it to get out of there.  It was a moot point because we do not plan to upgrade.

Since our grown children are not interested in timeshares and do not want to inherit them, we will enjoy our Mayan Palace and Grand Mayan weeks until the contracts come up for the 25 year renewals and say “Thanks for the Memories”, you can have it back.


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## solomobk (Jul 28, 2011)

*Grand Mayan Upgradew*

Mike, thank you for the information.  I reviewed what my co-owner signed and there only seems to be golf at $50 for all MX Grand Mayan properties where it use to only be for the NV location. I do not golf so this does not matter to me.  It was not an upgrade to the Bliss.  She is the primary owner so I do not know if that means her signature is all that is needed.

Otherwise the only addition is 2 Residence weeks versus 1 and my co-owner did not negotiate anything further.  I like the addition week as I like to trade the weeks within the Registry collection so this is the only plus.  It still seems like a lot.  It seem like I should try to revoke this contract and then when I go to Cabo in Oct. try to renegotiate a better deal.


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## rpennisi (Jul 29, 2011)

pittle said:


> Since our grown children are not interested in timeshares and do not want to inherit them, we will enjoy our Mayan Palace and Grand Mayan weeks until the contracts come up for the 25 year renewals and say “Thanks for the Memories”, you can have it back.



Phyliss,
Our Jan, 2011 update in NV was trade our 2 MP contracts (2 and 1 bdrms) for 3 weeks of GM, no use no pay, no 5 year renewals.

I also pre-calculated, and their numbers were much higher and like you we will not re-up after 25 years.  They also wanted 25K, all upfront.

I know this is all old news, but might help others who have not read any of it before.
Ron


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## mayanpalacemax (Aug 8, 2011)

*newhooks to the sales spiel*

I was wondering if anyone has been hearing the inflation argument in their presentations?
As a previous poster,harped endlessly,the inflation thing seems to be a new angle that these salesman will take.
With the debt downgrade now in place,this poster may just have had something.

Max


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## Pat H (Aug 8, 2011)

The new hook of a renovation fee every 10 yrs instead of 5 yrs is such a scam. When you have a week plus a VF (vacation fair) week, you pay the renovation fee on the registered week only. If you switch to the "upgraded" contract, you pay only every 10 yrs BUT you pay on BOTH weeks. How does that save you money?


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## Pizza67 (Aug 8, 2011)

Yep, they tried the same thing with us (recently in Nuevo).  Said no to the upgrade, then they tried the contract change from the 5yr to the 10yr fee, but the difference was only about $800 after 20 years.  If you pay xxx now, you won't need to pay those 5yr fees.

Me: Um, no.  
Them: But you're going to be paying that money anyway.
Me:  True, but I don't have to pay it all right now.  Over 20 yrs. is fine with me and the difference isn't all that much.

The really funny part was that since I knew exactly what was in my current contract and, for me, any upgrade wasn't wasn't worth it (perfectly happy with what we have), they only sent one "supervisor" for the 2nd push (and it really wasn't much of one either, he was just approving the numbers being offered).

But my mother-in-law was at another table and they sent about three or four different people to get her and my brother-in-law (he's on her contract) to upgrade.

Needless to say, we got out of there much quicker than they did.


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## rdstol (Nov 22, 2011)

Thanks for all comments we purchased in 07 and are in the sales pitch yesterday!! wondering what to do? prob will keep what we have and enjoy MP.PV.


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