# My VOA advises against joining!!!



## pacheco18 (Jul 12, 2010)

As I posted a few weeks ago, I have a wonderful VOA upon whom I rely for many things.  I travel extensively and use Rewards Points and he is always there to work out the kinks. I trust him.  He is honest.

When the Points program first was announced he told me to let the dust settle and we could talk later.  He called me today.

He told me NOT to join - it won't work well for me.  The way I use my resorts I am far better off with Interval.  He is advising many of his clients not to join the points program (hope he keeps his job - and no you cannot have his name). 

He assured me inventories will be separate.

He is not going to be a Points VOA (which for me is reason enough not to convert)

Not sure if this was ever among the 2000 posts - but the resale weeks that will be eligible for Rewards Points will only be eligible for Rewards Points every other year (regardless of whether the same if purchased from Marriott is eligible for a points swap every year).

I love that guy!!!


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## dougp26364 (Jul 12, 2010)

Good for him. There is some math that can be done by looking at your past usage and how much or how little you would save by joining. I suspcect Marriott understands that this program won't work well for 80% of the legacy owners or they wouldn't be thinking only 20% will convert.


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## RedDogSD (Jul 12, 2010)

dougp26364 said:


> Good for him. There is some math that can be done by looking at your past usage and how much or how little you would save by joining. I suspcect Marriott understands that this program won't work well for 80% of the legacy owners or they wouldn't be thinking only 20% will convert.



Then why do their sales people keep saying that they expect 80% to convert.  This is a direct quote from an email with Marriott Sales:

"We anticipate more than 80% of our owners will enroll their weeks. "


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## tombo (Jul 12, 2010)

Now there is a VOA I would like to send to gifting. He deserves 2 free tickets to Disney or a nice $100 meal for himself and his spouse/girlfirend. 

Wow, a salesman putting the best interests of his customer over the desire for profit at any cost. That is a strategy that Marriott should consider pursuing too.


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## pfrank4127 (Jul 12, 2010)

pacheco18 said:


> As I posted a few weeks ago, I have a wonderful VOA upon whom I rely for many things.  I travel extensively and use Rewards Points and he is always there to work out the kinks. I trust him.  He is honest.
> 
> When the Points program first was announced he told me to let the dust settle and we could talk later.  He called me today.
> 
> ...



I don't believe this is true, I joined and I was informed otherwise.  I will call my Marriott sales person to confirm.  My platinum week is eligible every year and my gold week every other year.


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## pfrank4127 (Jul 12, 2010)

pacheco18 said:


> As I posted a few weeks ago, I have a wonderful VOA upon whom I rely for many things.  I travel extensively and use Rewards Points and he is always there to work out the kinks. I trust him.  He is honest.
> 
> When the Points program first was announced he told me to let the dust settle and we could talk later.  He called me today.
> 
> ...





pfrank4127 said:


> I don't believe this is true, I joined and I was informed otherwise.  I will call my Marriott sales person to confirm.  My platinum week is eligible every year and my gold week every other year.



I just spoke to Marriott was told because I'm an enrolled owner I am eligible to convert every year for MR points with my platinum week.


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## BocaBoy (Jul 12, 2010)

So it seems that this wonderful VOA who is always right was wrong on most of the points he made to OP.

Also, it seems that another thread established that the source of this 20% figure was someone who posted on the TUG board. (I know that the VOA in question did not use that figure.)


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## rsackett (Jul 12, 2010)

BocaBoy said:


> So it seems that this wonderful VOA who is always right was wrong on* most *of the points he made to OP.



How do you figure he was wrong on MOST of the points he made?  I see one point where someone else at Marriott disagrees.  He could be right or wrong.

Ray


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## LisaRex (Jul 12, 2010)

I'd be very, very shocked if Marriott buried in its documents that resale owners who converted to points could only do so EOY. 

Warning: If your VOA is not going to be a points salesman, then he has a vested interest in steering you away from points.  (Why? Because points owners might want to buy more points in order to maximize their flexibility.  That takes business away from weeks resale agents.)

That's not to say that you should/should not join the system.  But whenever you get advice from someone, you should try to find out what side their bread is buttered on.  Blind faith in anything or anybody is not wise.


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## Dave M (Jul 12, 2010)

Actually, I believe the EOY wording is in the enrollment docs. Unfortunately I can't link to it or quote the exact language now because I'm not home and can't remember my MVCI log-in info! I'll do it later this evening when I get home if someone doesn't beat me to it!


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## buzzy (Jul 12, 2010)

Dave M said:


> Actually, I believe the EOY wording is in the enrollment docs. Unfortunately I can't link to it or quote the exact language now because I'm not home and can't remember my MVCI log-in info! I'll do it later this evening when I get home if someone doesn't beat me to it!



Interesting for those of us who are resale EOY anyway....


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## BocaBoy (Jul 12, 2010)

With OP's list of weeks owned and where, plus the fact that he likes MR points, he seems to be the poster child for one who would benefit from the new program.  I stand by my comment: wrong on most points.


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## pfrank4127 (Jul 12, 2010)

pfrank4127 said:


> I just spoke to Marriott was told because I'm an enrolled owner I am eligible to convert every year for MR points with my platinum week.



I was given BAD information and was wrong!  Apologies to the OP, I should of researched it closer.  This is from the enrollment documents that Dave was referring to:


*"The option to trade the Use Period associated with the Exchange Member’s Interest per season for Marriott Rewards points shall be limited to non-successive Use Years; i.e. trades may not be made two (2) years in a row, or in the case of an every-other-year Eligible Member, at least three (3) years must separate Use Years in which trades are made, as specified in the Resort Rules & Regulations. The applicable Resort Rules & Regulations for the resort where the Interest is located shall also govern the number of Marriott Rewards points the Eligible Member may receive for the assignment of a Use Period associated with the Exchange Member’s Interest."
*

It wasn't something that was/is important to me so not really a deal breaker so doesn't affect my decision.


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## Dave M (Jul 12, 2010)

Here is the wording from the formal Marriott Rewards document for enrolled owners (bold emphasis added):





> An Eligible Member who did not have the ability to trade the use of their Interest in a particular Use Year for Marriott Rewards points prior to enrollment in the Marriott Vacation Club Destinations Exchange Program shall receive the amount of Marriott Rewards points for each traded Interest as specified in the applicable Resort Rules & Regulations for the resort where the Interest is located. If the applicable Resort Rules & Regulations for the resort where the Interest is located does not identify the amount of Marriott Rewards points to be received for the traded Interest, then the Eligible Member shall not have the ability to trade the use of their Interest for Marriott Rewards points after enrollment in the Marriott Vacation Club Destinations Exchange Program. *The option to trade the Use Period associated with the Exchange Member’s Interest per season for Marriott Rewards points shall be limited to non-successive Use Years*; i.e. trades may not be made two (2) years in a row, or in the case of an every-other-year Eligible Member, at least three (3) years must separate Use Years in which trades are made, as specified in the Resort Rules & Regulations. The applicable Resort Rules & Regulations for the resort where the Interest is located shall also govern the number of Marriott Rewards points the Eligible Member may receive for the assignment of a Use Period associated with the Exchange Member’s Interest.


The document is appropriately titled, "RULES & REGULATIONS FOR THE MARRIOTT VACATION CLUB DESTINATIONS EXCHANGE PROGRAM TIMESHARE/MARRIOTT REWARDS® PROGRAM (Enrolled Owners Only)". And the description of the link to the document is: "Marriott Rewards® Terms and Conditions for All Enrollments" (underline emphasis added).


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## Dave M (Jul 12, 2010)

Looks as though we were posting at the same time!


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## pfrank4127 (Jul 12, 2010)

Dave M said:


> Looks as though we were posting at the same time!



Yes, started double checking when you said that it was listed somewhere, because your info is usually right on.  Figured if I was going to eat my words better to find it on my own LOL!


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## MikeZ (Jul 12, 2010)

BocaBoy said:


> So it seems that this wonderful VOA who is always right was wrong on most of the points he made to OP.
> 
> Also, it seems that another thread established that the source of this 20% figure was someone who posted on the TUG board. (I know that the VOA in question did not use that figure.)



I guess it appears that the VOA here was NOT wrong.  

I have had several conversations with various VOAs, supervisors, etc., and I have run across a couple who have expressed as much frustration with the questions I had as many of the posters here.

I have to imagine that the folks who did NOT put together this program but are charged with selling/supporting/explaining it have had a very difficult few weeks.  The complexity of the new program is mind-boggling for most of them (and oftentimes for me, too!).  As they get their bearing, many of them WILL operate in the best interest of the owner, which may mean saying something contrary to the Marriott script.  They did it before June 20, they will do it after-once they REALLY understand what this program entails-good, bad or neutral.


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## RedDogSD (Jul 12, 2010)

BocaBoy said:


> With OP's list of weeks owned and where, plus the fact that he likes MR points, he seems to be the poster child for one who would benefit from the new program.  I stand by my comment: wrong on most points.



Your opinion, but I don't think so.  The VOA seems to have been correct on every point.  Also, how do you kwow that the OP even likes MR points?  The OP was merely pointing out the fact that they could not convert very often.

The only people who are really going to do well in the new program are those who want to stay less than a week, or always like to downgrade when they trade IMHO.  Doing the Hawaii shuffle (3 days MOC, 3 days Ko'Olina, 3 Days other island, etc) and those who want to do Newport, then Palm Desert, things like that will like the program and those who own in Hawaii, but like to stay in Florida and other places where the weeks are worth far less.  

If you want to stay a week at a time, I really don't see anyone really getting much value out of the new program.  I like the idea of a few nights here and there, but otherwise, not much appeal.


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## pacheco18 (Jul 12, 2010)

BocaBoy said:


> With OP's list of weeks owned and where, plus the fact that he likes MR points, he seems to be the poster child for one who would benefit from the new program.



TO THE CONTRARY.  I use my weeks at my home resorts.  I bought where I want to go -- Palm Desert and Hawaii (Oahu).  Two of my weeks I can trade for MR points which I use in my travels abroad.  I can't tell you how many free hotel stays I have had.  If I do trade my units (rare), I get an AC for each and thus three weeks for each of my lockoffs. I work the II system very well. No way I could do that in the new system.  The other travel options Marriott is offering are no bargain.

My VOA was right on all points -- he is simply the best -- and always has been.  That's why I waited to get his take.


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## MikeM132 (Jul 12, 2010)

I tend to agree that if you don't really use II now, maybe staying with the existing plan is best. If you do use II much of the time, I can't see how you lose with the new plan. Just the fees alone are a better deal. I know I'd get my 700 back in a few years in fee and II savings, even if I never elected points at all. I use II every year to trade into other Marriotts.


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## buzzy (Jul 12, 2010)

buzzy said:


> Interesting for those of us who are resale EOY anyway....



or in the case of an every-other-year Eligible Member, at least three (3) years must separate Use Years in which trades are made, as specified in the Resort Rules & Regulations. 

Thanks Dave....


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## wa.mama (Jul 12, 2010)

pfrank4127 said:


> I was given BAD information and was wrong!  Apologies to the OP, I should of researched it closer.  This is from the enrollment documents that Dave was referring to:
> 
> 
> *"The option to trade the Use Period associated with the Exchange Member’s Interest per season for Marriott Rewards points shall be limited to non-successive Use Years; i.e. trades may not be made two (2) years in a row, or in the case of an every-other-year Eligible Member, at least three (3) years must separate Use Years in which trades are made, as specified in the Resort Rules & Regulations. The applicable Resort Rules & Regulations for the resort where the Interest is located shall also govern the number of Marriott Rewards points the Eligible Member may receive for the assignment of a Use Period associated with the Exchange Member’s Interest."
> ...




We just met with a sales manager at the new Kauai Lagoons and learned several interesting things.

First, regarding above - it VARIES between properties.  Most of our properties can only be converted to MR points every other year, but there was one that could be converted EVERY YEAR.  I believe it was Timberlodge  but to be honest I didn't pay close attention as we've never traded for MR and since the purchase was made years ago it's water under the bridge at this point.

Second, the sales manager said the same thing within 5 minutes of meeting us - "I wouldn't recommend the Destination Points program for you - you have all the prime weeks you want and don't have a history of trading into other places"  Bingo.

Third, she admitted that Marriott made a MISTAKE when allocating destination points to our fixed week 51 Waiohai.  As some may recall, Christmas Week at Waiohai was designated to receive the same number of points as every other floating week at Waiohai.  According to the manager, it was a "typo" at corporate and the fixed week will receive about 500 more points than initially listed.

Fourth, she pointed out that any destination points I received from depositing a week was NOT eligible for conversion to MR points.  Only purchased destination points were eligible for conversion.  I thought this was an error on her part due to something I read on TUG but couldn't find the information.

All in all, the information received just confirmed our decision not to join for now.  Will wait a few months and see how things continue to unfold.


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## Serina (Jul 12, 2010)

We rarely use II for exchanges and go to the resorts we own. I've talked to a number of Marriott Vacation Advisors and their advice has been the same...the points program isn't for us. 

The only thing they did mention (when I asked) was when our kids 'inherit' our weeks, if their vacation style ends up being more compatible with the points system and we don't belong...well. But, that's a number of years away for us, so I'm not concerned about that. But, it's an interesting point to think about.


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## BocaBoy (Jul 12, 2010)

Red Dog, I know OP likes points because he specifically said so.


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## Dave M (Jul 12, 2010)

wa.mama said:


> First, regarding above - it VARIES between properties.  Most of our properties can only be converted to MR points every other year, but there was one that could be converted EVERY YEAR.  I believe it was Timberlodge  but to be honest I didn't pay close attention as we've never traded for MR and since the purchase was made years ago it's water under the bridge at this point.


You are correct - for existing weeks that were purchased from Marriott. A number of resorts have the every-year option to trade for Marriott Rewards points. And at other resorts, existing owners were given the option of paying a fee for the privilege of trading for points every year.

None of that applies to weeks that are enrolled through the new points program. For those weeks, owners will be subject to the above quoted EOY rules - no matter what the rule is (EY or EOY) for owners who bought from Marriott.

If Marriott had intended that resale owners who enroll could get EY trading for Marriott Rewards points, the T&C above would have included that language.


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## dougp26364 (Jul 13, 2010)

RedDogSD said:


> Then why do their sales people keep saying that they expect 80% to convert.  This is a direct quote from an email with Marriott Sales:
> 
> "We anticipate more than 80% of our owners will enroll their weeks. "



Because they're salesmen. I'm surprised he didn't say he expected 100% to convert.


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## JimC (Jul 13, 2010)

pacheco18 said:


> As I posted a few weeks ago, I have a wonderful VOA upon whom I rely for many things.  I travel extensively and use Rewards Points and he is always there to work out the kinks. I trust him.  He is honest.
> 
> When the Points program first was announced he told me to let the dust settle and we could talk later.  He called me today.
> 
> ...



I'd ask him to confirm all that in writing.


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## dougp26364 (Jul 13, 2010)

JimC said:


> I'd ask him to confirm all that in writing.




Even if they confirm it in writing, they're not authorized to make any changes to Marriott's terms of agreement. My bet is that if you read those documents carefully you'll find wording stating no one other than Marriott is authorized to make changes to the terms and conditions of the agreement. So you can get it in writing from the VOA but it means about as much as having them tell you.

The only documents that mean a thing are those that Marriott has written and those that they require you to sign.


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## pwrshift (Jul 13, 2010)

You really are enjoying retirement, Dave.   



Dave M said:


> ... I'm not home and can't remember my MVCI log-in info! I'll do it later this evening when I get home if someone doesn't beat me to it!



Thanks for finding the 'trade for MR points clause' Dave.  I think there are several resorts where direct owners can already trade their weeks for MR annually.  BeachPlace is one of them.  My first MBP purchase was before it was annual and years ago I agreed to pay Marriott $1500 to have that week upgraded to trade EY for MR points if desired.  I've seldom done it as I prefer to 'use' my 2 weeks there with split lockoffs for 4 weeks each year from Pres Week.  Also think MMC in recent years was changed to EY conversion to MR points if bought direct (my 3 weeks are EOY and was not offered an EY).

I find it somewhat amusing how resale owners who were so against converting to MR points seem to be thinking the new plan is great to let them have that option now.  Times change when circumstances change.

Brian


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## 5infam (Jul 13, 2010)

pwrshift said:


> I find it somewhat amusing how resale owners who were so against converting to MR points seem to be thinking the new plan is great to let them have that option now.  Times change when circumstances change.
> 
> Brian



I find it curious also! As a resale purchaser, I knew when I bought that I could not trade for Marriott Reward Points (learned that here on TUG). I also did the math, and realized quickly that MRP was not in my financial interest based on the maintenance fees I pay (also informed of such on TUG). So, I bought my resale, saved 50% off of retail, and never thought about MRP again. Last week, a Marriott rep tried to sell me on the points deal with the MRP as a big reason to switch. I told him I survived just fine without it until now, and I saw no use for their MRP program, especially after the devaluation a few years back. End of his sales pitch!


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## camachinist (Jul 13, 2010)

> The only documents that mean a thing are those that Marriott has written and those that they require you to sign.



This sounds customary, and I often negotiate contracts by striking or adding verbiage. They don't have to agree and they don't have to receive my money nor services. A non-negotiable contract is not arm's length but rather one of adhesion, and rarely mutually beneficial. They may not change the contract, but if our purchase experience was any indicator, negotiating can 'sweeten the pot' in other ways. Besides, one learns the nuances of the contract by challenging it so one can make a more fully informed decision. To me, that's win-win.

I hope the OP makes their decision to join or not through due dilligence as opposed to the opinion of a VOA. No rush. Plenty of time


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## pwrshift (Jul 13, 2010)

When at a Manor Club general owners meeting recently I again brought up the voting thing that they said was not correct the previous week, and they were better prepared the 2nd time I went to discuss this clause:

_Quote:
Owner will not exercise any vote Owner may have in the owners" association ("Resort Association") operating the resort in which Owner's Timeshare Interest is located ("Resort") in a manner that is, in MVCEC's reasonable discretion, detrimental to the Program, including, without limitation, voting to limit or terminate the Resort's participation in the Program._

They said the 'reasonable discretion' only was there if the HOA decided the resort voted to put in a gas station and Marriott disagreed.  No fooling' - that's what they said their 'legal' dept told them it was there for...protecting the owners.  So what you say about contract changes in negotiation is true but I doubt Marriott would accept it with scratched out sections.

Brian








camachinist said:


> This sounds customary, and I often negotiate contracts by striking or adding verbiage. They don't have to agree and they don't have to receive my money nor services. A non-negotiable contract is not arm's length but rather one of adhesion, and rarely mutually beneficial. They may not change the contract, but if our purchase experience was any indicator, negotiating can 'sweeten the pot' in other ways. Besides, one learns the nuances of the contract by challenging it so one can make a more fully informed decision. To me, that's win-win.
> 
> I hope the OP makes their decision to join or not through due dilligence as opposed to the opinion of a VOA. No rush. Plenty of time


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## RedDogSD (Jul 13, 2010)

BocaBoy said:


> Red Dog, I know OP likes points because he specifically said so.



No, he did not.  Read his post again.  As a matter of fact, he specifically says that he does not later in the thread.  It is below.



pacheco18 said:


> TO THE CONTRARY.  I use my weeks at my home resorts.  .


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## Rush (Jul 13, 2010)

wa.mama said:


> ...Fourth, she pointed out that any destination points I received from depositing a week was NOT eligible for conversion to MR points.  Only purchased destination points were eligible for conversion.  I thought this was an error on her part due to something I read on TUG but couldn't find the information.




Would you / someone be so kind as to clarify?

Do I understand correctly, that I can't convert my resale weeks to MR points - using the DC points which I get for depositing my resale week w the new program?

I must be misreading this...


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## camachinist (Jul 13, 2010)

> Do I understand correctly, that I can't convert my resale weeks to MR points - using the DC points which I get for depositing my resale week w the new program?



So far, and reading this as a developer owner who does have MRP surrender rights, an enrolled resale week can be 'surrendered' for MRP's *if* the resort where the week exists originally had that surrender option when sold developer. So, if you own a gold or platinum NCV week, you will be able to surrender it for 100K or 110K EOY, respectively, which was the historical rate, or, if subsequent sales surrendered at a more advantageous rate, as Marriott applies the rule. The key is the *week* is surrendered, not the DCP's. That year, you don't 'convert' to DCP's, you convert to MRP's. *If* you convert to DCP's, you are precluded from converting to MRP's. Remember, this applies to 'enrolled weeks' only. Clarify this with Marriott before signing anything, as appropriate. Hope that helps


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## Rush (Jul 13, 2010)

camachinist said:


> So far, and reading this as a developer owner who does have MRP surrender rights, an enrolled resale week can be 'surrendered' for MRP's *if* the resort where the week exists originally had that surrender option when sold developer. So, if you own a gold or platinum NCV week, you will be able to surrender it for 100K or 110K EOY, respectively, which was the historical rate, or, if subsequent sales surrendered at a more advantageous rate, as Marriott applies the rule. The key is the *week* is surrendered, not the DCP's. That year, you don't 'convert' to DCP's, you convert to MRP's. Hope that helps



It does indeed - 

Thank you!

Oh and, I find your posts to be insightful, and often quite entertaining!


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## BocaBum99 (Jul 13, 2010)

pacheco18 said:


> As I posted a few weeks ago, I have a wonderful VOA upon whom I rely for many things.  I travel extensively and use Rewards Points and he is always there to work out the kinks. I trust him.  He is honest.
> 
> When the Points program first was announced he told me to let the dust settle and we could talk later.  He called me today.
> 
> ...



Great to hear you got a good one.  When you can find someone you trust, it makes it worth the premium you pay to get it from that person as long as the price differential isn't that big.


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## BocaBoy (Jul 13, 2010)

Red Dog, I said he LIKES points, not that he always trades for them.  He said:

"Two of my weeks I can trade for MR points which I use in my travels abroad. I can't tell you how many free hotel stays I have had."

Unbelievable!


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## RedDogSD (Jul 13, 2010)

BocaBoy said:


> Red Dog, I said he LIKES points, not that he always trades for them.



Boca, you are going in circles.  I could care less about whether or not the OP likes MR points, or if you said that, but you used that seemingly insignificant fact to impugn the Marriott VOA who was giving good advice.  In case you forgot what you wrote, here are your quotes:




BocaBoy said:


> So it seems that this wonderful VOA who is always right was wrong on most of the points he made to OP.





BocaBoy said:


> I stand by my comment: wrong on most points.



So, you are still arguing whether or not the OP likes MR points, but not facing the fact that the VOA was entirely correct with every fact he gave him, not to mention, I am willing to bet that the VOA knew the OP's affection for some MR points and also knew that he had plenty of weeks that already could be converted.  Thus, the VOA, who knew his clients wishes and travel preferences very well, gave great advice.  You, on the other hand, immediately dismissed him as being wrong without knowledge of the facts.


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## Dave M (Jul 13, 2010)

*Moderator's note*:

That's enough bickering in this thread. If you want to dissect posts by others or debate minor details, take it to PMs or e-mail.

RedDogSD and BocaBoy - This warning applies particularly to you.

Dave M
BBS Moderator


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## Big Matt (Jul 13, 2010)

Let me do the math:

I own two lock offs and lock one off each year and keep the other one dedicated 2BR.

I pay $75 for the lock off and $297 for the exchange fees.  I won't save any money on the II membership since I own resorts other than Marriott.  That's about $373 per year.  I will pay $199 to Marriott each year, so I save $174 per year.  

Wait though.  I have to pay $1995 up front.  I'll recoup "savings" in eleven plus years that will pay for the initial fee to join. Something tells me that the math will change between now and then, and I'm betting that I won't be on the winning side.



MikeM132 said:


> I tend to agree that if you don't really use II now, maybe staying with the existing plan is best. If you do use II much of the time, I can't see how you lose with the new plan. Just the fees alone are a better deal. I know I'd get my 700 back in a few years in fee and II savings, even if I never elected points at all. I use II every year to trade into other Marriotts.


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## tombo (Jul 13, 2010)

Big Matt said:


> Let me do the math:
> 
> I own two lock offs and lock one off each year and keep the other one dedicated 2BR.
> 
> ...



The math probably will change between now and then because the $199 annual fee is not guaranteed in writing and neither is it guaranteed in writing that exchange fees will always be at no charge (you already pay fees in skims if using points). Your figures are also assuming that you never use  either of your home resorts. If you use either or both of your home resorts on any given year your exchnge fee expenses will reduce and it will take even longer to recoup your conversion fee. 

I bet you won't be on the winning side if you convert as Marriott adds more "enhancements" to the program.


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## dougp26364 (Jul 13, 2010)

camachinist said:


> This sounds customary, and I often negotiate contracts by striking or adding verbiage. They don't have to agree and they don't have to receive my money nor services. A non-negotiable contract is not arm's length but rather one of adhesion, and rarely mutually beneficial. They may not change the contract, but if our purchase experience was any indicator, negotiating can 'sweeten the pot' in other ways. Besides, one learns the nuances of the contract by challenging it so one can make a more fully informed decision. To me, that's win-win.
> 
> I hope the OP makes their decision to join or not through due dilligence as opposed to the opinion of a VOA. No rush. Plenty of time



Keep in mind that I didn't say one can't negotiate a contract. I only said Marriott doesn't give the authority to it's empoyee's to change the terms without their permission. While you might record a conversation or have a statement in writing from a VOA, it probably isn't going to bind Marriott to those terms. You'll be bound by what you sign and by what Marriott approves.

My guess would be that there is some lattitude for on site managers to adjust a few things but, in the end, Marriott has the final say. I had one friend I refered to Marriott who purchased, only to be notified a couple of weeks later that Marriott had decided to cancel the deal she signed. She had the option to sign a new contract or receive her money back.

Having something in writing proving you were misled could give you some legal standing in voiding a contract but, I doubt it will ever change the terms of whatever it is you agree to when you sign the contract. If Marriott says exchanges and fee's are handled this way in the paper you sign, I don't care what you have in writing from a VOA that might contradict that, Marriott will be able to enforce the contract.


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## camachinist (Jul 13, 2010)

> I had one friend I refered to Marriott who purchased, only to be notified a couple of weeks later that Marriott had decided to cancel the deal she signed. She had the option to sign a new contract or receive her money back.



Yes, this happened to me when they caught my strike-outs. The ability to walk away *after* the sale can also be a negotiating tool. It's just business.


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## RedDogSD (Jul 13, 2010)

camachinist said:


> Yes, this happened to me when they caught my strike-outs. The ability to walk away *after* the sale can also be a negotiating tool. It's just business.



Hey, this seems like a good way to extend the rescind timeframe.  Make sure to Wipe out some of the terms that you know they will not agree with, and then once they catch it (couple of weeks later), you will have had more time to decide whether or not to sign the original contract, or walk away.  If they don't cancel the contract, well, then at least you got some of terms eliminated.


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