# Cancun- Police discovered six dead bodies in a cavern



## RLOGO (Jun 7, 2010)

This sort of stuff scares me.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5gMi5B2USfJStXxfqgWWr2xjRYpOgD9G66ES00


----------



## BlindBat (Jun 7, 2010)

RLOGO said:


> This sort of stuff scares me.
> 
> http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5gMi5B2USfJStXxfqgWWr2xjRYpOgD9G66ES00



I notice you are from NY..... How many murders there last year?

I do not have the numbers in front of me but I did read a article that outlined the comparative danger in Mexico to the US and the US is a much more dangerous place. You are considerably safer on the streets of a place like Cancun than in a major US city. Yet I don't see people getting antsy about an upcoming business trip to Chicago?

The violence that the US press loves to overstate is also focused around the US Border, thousands of miles away from resort communities like Cancun, PV or Cabo... this report from the Cancun area is an extremely isolated incident.

A few months ago I took my Wife and two small kids to Disney in Anaheim and the number of imposing looking thugs sporting clothes and tattoos with the goal of intimidation just reinforced how much safer I feel her in Cabo where a "Drug War" is two frat boys fighting over a dime bag.

Much like the "swine flu" that killed hundreds in the US which did not have one reported case within all of Baja California, and the reported "hurricanes" which inconvenience me to the point where I have to cover up my BBQ grill, the "drug wars" are revealing themselves as a conspiracy orchestrated by parties with an interest in keeping US tourists at Home

So enjoy the cultural wasteland that is Florida if you must but you might want to consider that it is a more dangerous place than Mexico.


----------



## RLOGO (Jun 7, 2010)

BlindBat said:


> I notice you are from NY..... How many murders there last year?
> 
> I do not have the numbers in front of me but I did read a article that outlined the comparative danger in Mexico to the US and the US is a much more dangerous place. You are considerably safer on the streets of a place like Cancun than in a major US city. Yet I don't see people getting antsy about an upcoming business trip to Chicago?
> 
> ...



From May 5, 2010-“BNO NEWS –New York City remains the safest big city in America, according to the FBI Uniform Crime Report” and I don’t remember the last time they found 5 people dead with there hearts cut out here. I was in Cancun this February and felt safe for the most part.  I ventured into town, by bus, with my young children and DW without worries. Yes there were guards with machine guns in front of the local electronics store, never have seen that in NYC, and several in the square by La Habichuela. With that, one cannot be naive and say that Mexico is a safe place. The drug cartels are as ruthless as they come. The Zet a drug gang is accused recently of killing 100 women.  I say, travel to Mexico, but proceed with caution.


----------



## RLOGO (Jun 7, 2010)

*and...*

June 2, 2010, Cancun Mayor Charged with Drug Trafficking

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/06/02/world/main6540096.shtml


----------



## BlindBat (Jun 7, 2010)

RLOGO said:


> From May 5, 2010-“BNO NEWS –New York City remains the safest big city in America, according to the FBI Uniform Crime Report” and I don’t remember the last time they found 5 people dead with there hearts cut out here. I was in Cancun this February and felt safe for the most part.  I ventured into town, by bus, with my young children and DW without worries. Yes there were guards with machine guns in front of the local electronics store, never have seen that in NYC, and several in the square by La Habichuela. With that, one cannot be naive and deny that Mexico is a safe place. The drug cartels are as ruthless as they come. The Zet a drug gang is accused recently of killing 100 women.  I say, travel to Mexico, but proceed with caution.



NYC is boasting that it has seen a decrease in violent crime - and there are many who deserve credit for that.

That being said NYC had over 460 murders in 2009!!!

460 is a good year but you seem worried about 6.

I understand that we are talking about areas with much different populations but we are still talking about NYC in its best year compared to Cancun in the midst of a "crisis".


----------



## BlindBat (Jun 7, 2010)

RLOGO said:


> June 2, 2010, Cancun Mayor Charged with Drug Trafficking
> 
> http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/06/02/world/main6540096.shtml



Yes, so the Mayor in Cancun is a drug trafficker - best not to visit.

The thieves of Wall street collapsed the global economy - best avoid the Statue of Liberty as well?.


----------



## RLOGO (Jun 7, 2010)

BlindBat said:


> NYC is boasting that it has seen a decrease in violent crime - and there are many who deserve credit for that.
> 
> That being said NYC had over 460 murders in 2009!!!
> 
> ...



Wait. You are comparing 460 for one year in NYC with 6 from one incident in Cancun.  Your math is fuzzy.


----------



## RLOGO (Jun 7, 2010)

BlindBat said:


> Yes, so the Mayor in Cancun is a drug trafficker - best not to visit.
> 
> The thieves of Wall street collapsed the global economy - best avoid the Statue of Liberty as well?.



I haven’t been to the Statue of Liberty in years.


----------



## BlindBat (Jun 7, 2010)

[_Edited to delete inflammatory post. Please carefully read the Posting Rules (link on above blue bar), especially the "Be Courteous" section._ Dave M, BBS Moderator


----------



## RLOGO (Jun 7, 2010)

BlindBat said:


> Are you a drug dealer looking to expand your turf?
> 
> If not then you are safe in Cancun.



I want to share this last story and then I am going to move on.  I stayed at the Harborside Atlantis last year and have a great time.  We went to several restaurants on and off the Paradise Island. One night, our the taxi driver proceeded to tell us how safe it was in the Bahamas and the little crime that existed occurred to the residents and not the tourist and visitors.  I was very surprised to hear that the criminals in the Bahamas are so thoughtful not to victimize tourist.


----------



## BlindBat (Jun 7, 2010)

> [Edited to delete inflammatory post. Please carefully read the Posting Rules (link on above blue bar), especially the "Be Courteous" section. Dave M, BBS Moderator



I was being facetious in my comment - certainly did not intend to insult. Allow me to re-phrase.

The violence in Mexico - which as I pointed out - is not nearly as bad as some media outlets would have you believe, is surrounding a dispute that has nothing to do with tourism and/or tourists.

Several years back there were issues in Florida where tourists in rental cars were targeted and "bumped" which resulted in robberies, assaults and murders. It led the car rental companies to remove the logos from their cars. This is the type of crime that targets tourists and should heed as a warning.

I cannot say for a fact that no tourists have ever been caught in the crossfire of the Mexican drug wars, but if they have I have not seen the reports and I would suggest that it is extremely isolated.


----------



## RLOGO (Jun 7, 2010)

BlindBat said:


> I was being facetious in my comment - certainly did not intend to insult. Allow me to re-phrase.
> 
> The violence in Mexico - which as I pointed out - is not nearly as bad as some media outlets would have you believe, is surrounding a dispute that has nothing to do with tourism and/or tourists.
> 
> ...



I hate the tan lines I get from a bullet proof vest.


----------



## BlindBat (Jun 7, 2010)

RLOGO said:


> I hate the tan lines I get from a bullet proof vest.



I stick with my kevlar speedo.

The important stuff is protected and tan lines are not an issue.


----------



## KarenLK (Jun 7, 2010)

I quickly scanned an article in Spanish in the local Cancun "rag" and once again, it was not innocent tourists, but rather druggies.


----------



## John Cummings (Jun 7, 2010)

Anybody that believes Mexico is safer than the US has a vested interest in Mexico or is totally naive about what is going on there.

My wife is from Mexico and several of her family living there have been crime victims and they are just normal folks with NO connection to the drug business. The vast majority of crimes. except for murder, are never reported in Mexico because the people don't trust the police and for good reason.


----------



## BlindBat (Jun 7, 2010)

John Cummings said:


> Anybody that believes Mexico is safer than the US has a vested interest in Mexico or is totally naive about what is going on there.
> 
> My wife is from Mexico and several of her family living there have been crime victims and they are just normal folks with NO connection to the drug business. The vast majority of crimes. except for murder, are never reported in Mexico because the people don't trust the police and for good reason.



Ludicrous.

Violent crime in Mexico is centered around a handful of issues and is heavily localized.

The US is not so discriminating.


----------



## easyrider (Jun 7, 2010)

BlindBat said:


> Ludicrous.
> 
> Violent crime in Mexico is centered around a handful of issues and is heavily localized.
> 
> The US is not so discriminating.



This sums up my feelings about Mexico. 

There was a teen boy taken from his parents home and draged to the curb about a week ago. While pleading for his life, with family and others watching, 6-7 kids put 14 rounds in him. This was in broad daylight in a nice middle class neighborhood in our town. This kinda crap happens through out the USA.


----------



## RLOGO (Jun 7, 2010)

Yes, there is crime in the US, but to claim there is less in Mexico is living in denial.


----------



## BlindBat (Jun 7, 2010)

RLOGO said:


> Yes, there is crime in the US, but to claim there is less in Mexico is living in denial.



I am not saying there is less crime in Mexico - or that there is less violent crime in Mexico. The stats do not bear that out. What I am suggesting is that it is very compartmentalized and localized.

You posted the story of the the victims who were found mutilated in a cave. Do you suppose that was a random act or some type of message-sending? No disrespect to the departed but if you are getting carved up by a Drug Lord, you were probably on the wrong side of the law to begin with. This, for a lack of a better term, was most likely a "bad guy on bad guy" crime.

The inflated numbers surrounding violent crime are predominantly coming from two areas: Bad guy on Bad guy and Law enforcement/military on Bad guy.

Here is just a snippet of the kind of garbage the media will spew http://www.examiner.com/x-5715-Phoe...r~y2010m5d25-False-rumors-hurt-Mexico-tourism
In Mexico we have what is effectively a civil war going on. Ironically it is closer in proximity to destination resorts in California, Arizona, and Texas than it is to major Mexican resorts. If people want to count the numbers from a war as evidence of violent crime in a particular country then perhaps the numbers from Afghanistan and Iraq should be counted into the per capita figures for purposes of this discussion.

Mexico has some nasty and dangerous places. The resorts that we talk about in these forums, however, are safer than any major American city where these fears are being mongered.


----------



## easyrider (Jun 7, 2010)

RLOGO said:


> Yes, there is crime in the US, but to claim there is less in Mexico is living in denial.



Yes, there is less murder in Mexico than the USA. 

Mexico 13,144  http://www.nationmaster.com/country/mx-mexico/cri-crime

USA 16,204 http://www.nationmaster.com/country/us-united-states/cri-crime

The USA ranks higher in almost every crime catagory than Mexico.


----------



## pjrose (Jun 8, 2010)

easyrider said:


> Yes, there is less murder in Mexico than the USA.
> 
> Mexico 13,144  http://www.nationmaster.com/country/mx-mexico/cri-crime
> 
> ...



Numerically, True.  

Per capita, the story changes:

Mexico is #6 worldwide with 0.130213 per 1,000 people

The US is # 24 worldwide with 0.042802 per 1,000 people, or less than 1/3 the rate of Mexico.  

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_mur_percap-crime-murders-per-capita


----------



## John Cummings (Jun 8, 2010)

BlindBat said:


> Ludicrous.
> 
> Violent crime in Mexico is centered around a handful of issues and is heavily localized.
> 
> The US is not so discriminating.



Ludicrous?? Back at you.

Crime is much more localized in the US than Mexico. I lived and worked in Mexico and traveled all over the country. We have a lot of family and very good friends living in Mexico. I owned a business there. Our son played semi-pro baseball in Mexico. I am fluent in Spanish.

What are you credentials?

You can believe what you want. It makes no difference to me.


----------



## John Cummings (Jun 8, 2010)

easyrider said:


> Yes, there is less murder in Mexico than the USA.
> 
> Mexico 13,144  http://www.nationmaster.com/country/mx-mexico/cri-crime
> 
> ...



Your logic is flawed. The murder rate in Mexico is well over double that of the US as the population of the US is 2.78 times that of Mexico. The other crime figures are meaningless because 85% of crime in Mexico is not reported. Assualts and rapes are closer to 95% unreported. If you don't believe it, do a search on unreported crime in Mexico.


----------



## Helene4 (Jun 8, 2010)

So...can we all agree there is crime *all over the world *and the only way to stay safe (maybe) is to stay in your house with the doors and windows locked and the shades down?


----------



## BlindBat (Jun 8, 2010)

John Cummings said:


> Ludicrous?? Back at you.
> 
> Crime is much more localized in the US than Mexico. I lived and worked in Mexico and traveled all over the country. We have a lot of family and very good friends living in Mexico. I owned a business there. Our son played semi-pro baseball in Mexico. I am fluent in Spanish.
> 
> ...



Well I've lived here right now and have for three years now. Are those credentials enough? When I first moved here I felt somewhat like you but I should mention that I slept soundly last night with my doors unlocked. I have two young children who are in the school system and neither I, or anyone I know, has had any contact with anything more than petty crime.

I have lived for extended periods of time in Canada, the US, and Mexico and the only place I ever felt compelled to lock my doors was in the US - mostly because people told me I was crazy not to.

Now, to be fair, I live in Cabo San Lucas, and I doubt I would feel the same if I lived in D.F. or many other communities but it is the safety of places like Cabo that are the topic of discussion when the US media tells people not to come here because of the violence that doesn't exist or the swine flu that didn't come within 1000 miles of us.

People avoiding Mexican resorts is like someone being hesitant to visit Yosemite National Park because of gang violence in South Central L.A.


----------



## pjrose (Jun 8, 2010)

pjrose said:


> Numerically, True.
> 
> Per capita, the story changes:
> 
> ...





John Cummings said:


> Your logic is flawed. The murder rate in Mexico is well over double that of the US as the population of the US is 2.78 times that of Mexico. The other crime figures are meaningless because 85% of crime in Mexico is not reported. Assualts and rapes are closer to 95% unreported. If you don't believe it, do a search on unreported crime in Mexico.



My logic is simply to report the per capita data that are available.  (The flawed logic was in an earlier post which reported simple counts, not per capita.)  The murder rate in Mexico is triple that of the US, per the above figures.  As far as underreporting, I believe you, hence the rate in Mexico is likely even more than triple that of the US.


----------



## easyrider (Jun 8, 2010)

The crime rate overall in all tourist areas in Mexico is about the sames as Idaho. The crime rate at certain border towns in Mexico is about the same as Detroit MI. 
We are talking about murder and violent criminal activity. 

To compare places in Mexico such as Puerto Valletta, Southern Baja, Cancun and other smaller resort cities to crime ridden border towns in Mexico is ridiculous. This comparison is like comparing Detroit to Vail.

Only a small number of Americans have been murdered in Mexico. These Americans are usually involved in criminal activity and are singled out. 

The main cause of death to Americans in Mexico is heart attack. Following health issues are accidental deaths.


----------



## pjrose (Jun 8, 2010)

I agree, the most accurate comparisons would use rates for similar areas, and, where possible, people with similar characteristics.


----------



## hvacrsteve (Jun 9, 2010)

pjrose said:


> I agree, the most accurate comparisons would use rates for similar areas, and, where possible, people with similar characteristics.



The real issue for me is the fact that the police are so corrupt, so if you have an issue, where or to whom can you actually report it?

I would say that overall the crime rate is higher in Mexico on the whole, but tourist areas it is very low.

Having said that, there has been an increase in the amount of crime closer and in the resort areas that never existed or was not reported on before.

Now with the internet and other communication options, it is more likely to be reported somewhere, probably not the police department.

On our last visit to Cancun and Playa Del Carmen we had 3 of 4 credit cards cloned!  So there is no doubt in my mind that financial crimes are being conducted by a lot of people on many levels.  There has to be an incredible amount of corruption at the highest levels for this to happen.

I still love Mexico, but there is a civil war going on there whether it is admitted or not.


----------



## John Cummings (Jun 9, 2010)

easyrider said:


> The crime rate overall in all tourist areas in Mexico is about the sames as Idaho. The crime rate at certain border towns in Mexico is about the same as Detroit MI.
> We are talking about murder and violent criminal activity.
> 
> To compare places in Mexico such as Puerto Valletta, Southern Baja, Cancun and other smaller resort cities to crime ridden border towns in Mexico is ridiculous. This comparison is like comparing Detroit to Vail.
> ...



Do you enjoy making false claims? Your comparisons are laughable. I am sure we all agree that Detroit is one of the most, if not the most, dangerous cities in the US. The number of murders in Detroit in 2009 was 379. Check it for yourself:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_Detroit,_Michigan

Cd. Juarez had 1,986 murders in the first 9.5 months of 2009. Again, see for yourself:

http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory?id=8886505

Tijuana had 575 murders in the first 11 months of 2009.

http://www.sdnn.com/sandiego/2009-1...20-more-murders-since-friday-575-year-to-date

San Diego, which is 15 miles north and approximately the same size had a total of 41 murders in all of 2009.

http://www.sandiego.gov/police/pdf/200912cumneighbor.pdf

I agree that comparing tourist areas in Mexico to high crime areas is not a fair comparison. However, most of you love to compare high crime areas of the US with Mexico which is not valid. Not all tourist areas in Mexico are the same. Mazatlan had 28 murders in January, 2010.

I am not suggesting that people don't visit Mexico. The odds are very much in your favor that nothing will happen as long as one exercises some caution. We visit there all the time on both family visits and timeshare vacations. However it is a fact that Mexico is definitely more dangerous than the US coupled with a very high rate of corruption. A significant number of crimes are committed by the police in Mexico.


----------



## easyrider (Jun 9, 2010)

John, how many American tourist have been murdered in Mexico ? Your arguments about how many Mexicans that are murdered in Mexico are valid but it is not the same thing as a tourists being murdered. 

Your conclusions about violence are based on being married to a Mexican citizen living in the border area which is not the same thing as being an American tourist traveling in a tourist area. 

The comparison I'm trying to convey with Detroit and Vail is that you are more likely to be victimized in a crime ridden area. The same is true of Mexico.

This from the US Consulates Office concerning Mexico.

"Millions of U.S. citizens safely visit Mexico each year.  This includes tens of thousands who cross the border every day for study, tourism or business and at least one million U.S. citizens who live in Mexico.  The Mexican government makes a considerable effort to protect U.S. citizens and other visitors to major tourist destinations.   Resort areas and tourist destinations in Mexico do not see the levels of drug-related violence and crime reported in the border region and in areas along major drug trafficking routes.  Nevertheless, crime and violence are serious problems.  While most victims of violence are Mexican citizens associated with criminal activity, the security situation poses serious risks for U.S. citizens as well."

Do you see the first word of the fist paragraph. MILLIONS. The odds of being murdered in Mexico would depend on who you are. Gangster, you may have a problem. Tourista, odds are huge that you will still be alive at the end of your trip.


----------



## geekette (Jun 9, 2010)

easyrider said:


> John, how many American tourist have been murdered in Mexico ? Your arguments about how many Mexicans that are murdered in Mexico are valid but it is not the same thing as a tourists being murdered.
> .... The odds of being murdered in Mexico would depend on who you are. Gangster, you may have a problem. Tourista, odds are huge that you will still be alive at the end of your trip.



I believe that this year, more than others past, American tourists are, in fact, being murdered.  That is why less Americans want to be tourists in Mexico right now.


----------



## BlindBat (Jun 9, 2010)

geekette said:


> I believe that this year, more than others past, American tourists are, in fact, being murdered.  That is why less Americans want to be tourists in Mexico right now.



And voila the power of the Press.

Seeing as how most American citizens live in or around major urban areas would they not be considerably safer in Mexican resorts than they would be at home?

Statistics were cited above for the three major fronts in the drug war and attributed as "murders in Mexico". By that measure should we not also call 3000 deaths in NYC in 2001 as "murders"? and count them towards what a dangerous place the US is?

Mexico had about .13 murders per 10,000 people. There are 66 US cities listed here with that or higher http://www.worst-city.com/Murder-Rate-in-US-Cities-worst-state-city-for-shootings-murders.htm

Now when you consider that a Mexican resort will be drastically lower than the National average of .13 isn't it completely ridiculous for someone in Philly, Buffalo, Houston or Phoenix or any other number of American cities to decide to avoid Mexico because it is "too dangerous"?


----------



## John Cummings (Jun 9, 2010)

easyrider said:


> John, how many American tourist have been murdered in Mexico ? Your arguments about how many Mexicans that are murdered in Mexico are valid but it is not the same thing as a tourists being murdered.
> 
> Your conclusions about violence are based on being married to a Mexican citizen living in the border area which is not the same thing as being an American tourist traveling in a tourist area.
> 
> ...



You obviously did not read the last part of my post. I said:

*"I am not suggesting that people don't visit Mexico. The odds are very much in your favor that nothing will happen as long as one exercises some caution. We visit there all the time on both family visits and timeshare vacations."*

For your information my wife is NOT from a border area and we did not live near the border. We have been married for 46 years. A lot of her family lives in Mazatlan where we have spent a lot of time. Yes, some live in Tijuana but they are NOT from there and the majoity of her family lives in the interior of Mexico. We have also spent a lot of time in Riviera Maya, Puerto Vallarta/Nuevo Vallarta, La Paz, Sonora. I have worked in Vera Cruz and we have been to many other parts of Mexico.

*You said: "The comparison I'm trying to convey with Detroit and Vail is that you are more likely to be victimized in a crime ridden area. The same is true of Mexico."*

I agree with that completely but that is not what you had been saying. That is just common sense.

We have many good friends all over Mexico, including the tourist areas, and believe me the violence in Mexico is a common topic of discussion.

There have been American tourists murdered and kidnapped in Mexico but I agree that it is a very small percentage of the visitors. Assaults are more common but don't find their way into the statistics. 

BTW, it is "turista", NOT, "tourista".


----------



## hvacrsteve (Jun 10, 2010)

Just go to Mexico or where ever you want!

Don't buy drugs while you are there, don't rent a car.

Stay in the tourist areas and enjoy yourself!

If you get shot, you probably will not remember it anyway!

Three people got shot in DC tonight on a drug deal gone bad in a fairly decent part of town!

I stopped going there because of the high taxes and speed camera, redlight cameras and parking police.  
Now I just walk to the local places and enjoy them!


----------



## John Cummings (Jun 10, 2010)

pjrose said:


> My logic is simply to report the per capita data that are available.  (The flawed logic was in an earlier post which reported simple counts, not per capita.)  The murder rate in Mexico is triple that of the US, per the above figures.  As far as underreporting, I believe you, hence the rate in Mexico is likely even more than triple that of the US.



I did NOT say that your logic was flawed.


----------



## John Cummings (Jun 10, 2010)

BlindBat said:


> And voila the power of the Press.
> 
> Seeing as how most American citizens live in or around major urban areas would they not be considerably safer in Mexican resorts than they would be at home?
> 
> ...



New York City had 412 murders in 2009.

http://projects.nytimes.com/crime/homicides/map

I would much rather walk the streets at night in downtown New York than Mazatlan. I have done both. 

You have a vested interest in supporting your argument.


----------



## mikenk (Jun 10, 2010)

It is amazing how folks can always spin statistics to show they are right on any subject.

I believe that personal danger in any location is based on what goes on in a specific location and what you are doing there. A little personal judgment goes a long way. There are parts of all major U.S. cities that I would never walk and there are parts of the same cities that I would freely. Same in Mexico. same in Europe. It is not hard to tell the difference - regardless what statistics might say about the area in general.

Our trips to Mexico have been Riviera Maya, Puerto Vallarta, and Cabo area. We have never felt unsafe in any area we visit and I have not really sensed any change in that regard over the last few years. I assume there are parts of all three that I would be uncomfortable, but have not found them and certainly not looking for them.

Mike


----------



## BlindBat (Jun 10, 2010)

John Cummings said:


> New York City had 412 murders in 2009.
> 
> http://projects.nytimes.com/crime/homicides/map
> 
> ...



My vested interest is in shedding a little light on some of the myths and generalities you seem to me echoing.



> It should be noted that Baja California Sur, which comprises the southern half of the peninsula, is one of many blue states listed as zones with the fewest murders (1). Baja California Sur is home to its capital city of La Paz, Cabo San Lucas, San Jose del Cabo and Todos Santos. All are popular tourist areas -- there are many others -- and at least some have lost business because of a perceived danger related to the narco war.



One murder in a population basis of just over half a million. Factor that out against a city like NYC on a per capita basis and it is about 1/10th the rate - Yes the US press has people in NYC afraid to visit southern Baja.

Might also be worth mentioning that the 1 Murder also represents the same amount of victims of swine in the entire Baja during that period of media induced hysteria.

Model American families were steering clear of the Baja during that period of time over fears of a reported drug war and people dying of swine flu in the streets yet would not hesitate for moment to visit American centers with triple digit homicide rates and dozens of swine flu cases. 

So I hope you can understand my sensitivity when I see you make generalizations and blanket statements implying that visitors should "be careful" when the implication you are clearly making is that they are less safe in a Mexican resort than the cities and towns they might be visiting from - In the overwhelming number of instances, they're safer in Mexico.


----------



## easyrider (Jun 10, 2010)

geekette said:


> I believe that this year, more than others past, American tourists are, in fact, being murdered.  That is why less Americans want to be tourists in Mexico right now.



There have only been a few tourists murdered in Mexico. Here is a list of deaths in Mexico going back to 2008.

http://projects.latimes.com/mexico-drug-war/#/its-a-war

These are people killed because they are in a drug war on the border. Not tourist in resort areas. 
You folks who are describing the dangers of vacationing in a resort area of Mexico are describing the same danger faced on about any vacation anywhere. More tourists have died in Florida than Mexico. Is Florida a dangerous place ? Not really.

John, I have been saying the same thing over and over and so have you. I feel totally safe in Mexico, you don,t. Your reasons in other posts on other threads have been you see first hand the violence because of your family ties. Other posts in other threads suggest that you are a target for bandidos in Mexico. This is not my experience as an occasional visitor to Mexico. We get a car and explore and have never had a scary situation other than having to find toilet paper.


----------



## RedDogSD (Jun 10, 2010)

Bottom line, every city is different.  You need to look at each one individually.  

I felt SUPER safe in Cabo.    I feel the same in Mission Viejo, CA.
I felt SUPER safe in Ixtapa/Zihu (I can't spell that city)
I felt very safe in Matazlan, but I could see that it was not Cabo.  I feel the same way about Santa Monica/Venice Beach.  They can be dangerous.
I felt pretty darn safe in Acapulco, but I was more cautious.  That city is large and has some very bad pockets.  This is like Los Angeles.  

I feel reasonably safe in Rosarito and Ensenada but I would be very alert to where I was and who was near me.  This is like Philadelphia, Oakland, San Francisco, etc.  

I won't play around in Tijuana outside of Revolution Blvd.  I drive through there once in awhile and that place seems dangerous to me.  Driving back to the US from Baja brings you through some bad areas.  I would not want to break down.   This reminds me of parts of Atlanta and New Orleans that are far removed from the tourist areas.

When I worked in Ciudad Juarez, our company made up get Hotels in El Paso and drive down daily.  We were not allowed to go to lunch alone.  We had to stay on property or go with others.   I can't think of anyplace like this in the US.


----------



## bankr63 (Jun 10, 2010)

*Victimized or Murdered?*

In reading this post I smile every time someone uses the term "victimized" instead of murdered.  I agree that the likelihood of being murdered in a Mexican tourist area is probably much lower than in a large US city.  It does happen however; a couple of Canadians were hacked to death in their hotel room in Cancun a couple of years ago.  A couple of near retirees, on a family vacation, no apparent links to the drug trade, no one ever found or charged.  The Mexican police tried to pin it on a couple of other tourists on the same trip, but they turned themselves in to Canadian police as soon as accused and were fully exonerated.  No evidence to tie them to anything, lots of evidence pointing to some locals, but nothing ever happened as I understand it.

I'm not stating this to say that I think Mexico is unsafe; I don't.  I just think that you can't say it "never happens".  Mexico is still my favorite place to vacation.  Great people, and very down to earth.

As for the victimization; I suspect that I am more likely to be victimized in a Mexican tourist area than in your average neighborhood.  With the difference in relative standard of living, Americans and Canadians are a great attraction for petty criminals, or extortion artis... er Timeshare Salesmen.  Again, I am probably still more likely to get pick-pocketed or mugged in a touristy area of New York City than Cabo, but petty crime follows us to all touristy areas!  Proper precautions are always a good idea.

I have always been impressed by the lack of panhandlers in Mexican tourist spots.  At home I am used to someone with a hat or hand out at every downtown corner.  I think I've seen that twice in Mexico.  Lot's of people trying to sell you chicklets, or flowers, or whatever; but at least they are trying to make an enterprise of it, and give you something in return.  Now THAT is an honest country!

M Ross


----------



## RLOGO (Jun 10, 2010)

bankr63 said:


> Again, I am probably still more likely to get pick-pocketed or mugged in a touristy area of New York City than Cabo, but petty crime follows us to all touristy areas!  Proper precautions are always a good idea.



I don't know which NYC you are speaking of, but it its obvious you do not know NYC. I have lived, gone to school and worked in NYC for the last 40 years and have never been mugged, pick pocketed or robbed in any form. In fact I know of one friend who was mugged about 15 years ago. Yes these crimes occur here as they do everywhere.

 If you refer to Cancun as the area consisting of Hotel Zone, then I would say it is pretty safe.  However, like I said in my earlier post, if there is an armed guard with a semi-automatic machine gun in front of the local electronics store in town then one must assume there is a reason for it.  One of the posters here said that 3 of their credit cards were cloned from their last visit to Mexico.  It is almost a lawless country in some respects.


----------



## John Cummings (Jun 10, 2010)

BlindBat said:


> One murder in a population basis of just over half a million. Factor that out against a city like NYC on a per capita basis and it is about 1/10th the rate - Yes the US press has people in NYC afraid to visit southern Baja.
> 
> Might also be worth mentioning that the 1 Murder also represents the same amount of victims of swine in the entire Baja during that period of media induced hysteria.
> 
> ...



I agree that there is a major difference between the states of Baja California and Baja California Sur. All the negatives I have ever seen in the media has been about BC not BCS. I also consider BCS to be pretty safe. La Paz is our favorite Mexican city.

The swine flu hoax is another issue. We were at the Grand Mayan - Riviera Maya when the media manufactured swine flu crisis hit. Some of the employees at the GM - Riviera Maya are friends of ours. The swine flu was blown a way out of proportion and everybody overreacted. The Mexican government shut down many facilities causing great hardship to the Mexican people. The resorts laid off thousands of workers, and some even closed. Workers in Mexico don't have unemployment insurance or any safety net. All of this was totally unnecessary. There were tourists leaving the resort in droves. We stayed our 2 weeks as usual.

As far as safety is concerned, you are making the same generalizations that you are accusing me of. Baja California Sur is NOT Mazatlan which is a major tourist destination in Mexico. I distinctly said I would rather walk the streets at night in NYC than Mazatlan, NOT BCS. You are the one comparing BCS with New York which is not what I said. You have selected BCS as if it is representative of Mexico which it is not.

In any event it doesn't really matter to me as we will do what we feel like doing regardless of what somebody posts on a BBS.


----------



## bankr63 (Jun 10, 2010)

RLOGO said:


> I don't know which NYC you are speaking of, but it its obvious you do not know NYC. I have lived, gone to school and worked in NYC for the last 40 years and have never been mugged, pick pocketed or robbed in any form. In fact I know of one friend who was mugged about 15 years ago. Yes these crimes occur here as they do everywhere.



I've been 5 or 6 times in my life.  Only know the touristy spots; certainly don't know it like a native.  Have only had my pocket picked once, (okay, it's possible I actually DROPPED my wallet, but that has NEVER happened any other time in my life).  Personally, I feel more comfortable walking around downtown PV than Times Square, but that could just be my ignorance (or my past experience).  Hell, I feel more comfortable walking around PV than some parts of Ottawa, and this is a pretty safe city too.  I am sure a few people (mostly tourists) probably get pick-pocketed here too, but if I used Ottawa as an example, I figure only a few here could relate.  

My point is simply that tourists are a magnet for petty crime.  In all cases, I advise proper precautions.  And I think it is wiser to worry about the things that are more likely to happen than those that aren't.  I am not trying to dis' your city or any other.


----------



## John Cummings (Jun 10, 2010)

RLOGO said:


> I don't know which NYC you are speaking of, but it its obvious you do not know NYC. I have lived, gone to school and worked in NYC for the last 40 years and have never been mugged, pick pocketed or robbed in any form. In fact I know of one friend who was mugged about 15 years ago. Yes these crimes occur here as they do everywhere.
> 
> If you refer to Cancun as the area consisting of Hotel Zone, then I would say it is pretty safe.  However, like I said in my earlier post, if there is an armed guard with a semi-automatic machine gun in front of the local electronics store in town then one must assume there is a reason for it.  One of the posters here said that 3 of their credit cards were cloned from their last visit to Mexico.  It is almost a lawless country in some respects.



I think that most people that cite New York have never been there in recent years. It is our favorite city to visit by far and we have visited just about every city in the US, Canada, and Mexico. We have walked all over Manhattan night and day and one thing that really impressed us was how helpful the people of New York are. We have had several experiences where the people went out of their way to assist us. It is the one place that we like to return to and we will be visiting NYC this summer again.

We did not feel comfortable at all in Vancouver nor Calgary. Downtown Los Angeles is not too great but there is no reason to visit there.


----------



## RLOGO (Jun 10, 2010)

bankr63 said:


> Personally, I feel more comfortable walking around downtown PV than Times Square, but that could just be my ignorance (or my past experience)



No need to worry about petty crime in Times Square. With all the terrorism security in may be the safest place in all of the US.  That’s another issue.


----------



## bankr63 (Jun 10, 2010)

*To be fair...*



RLOGO said:


> No need to worry about petty crime in Times Square. With all the terrorism security in may be the safest place in all of the US.  That’s another issue.



I haven't been back since the Twin Towers came down.  Perhaps it is time for a trip back.  At the time I was working for a company with offices in Piscataway, NJ and often we would go in for an evening of fun while working at the office there (I do contract work).  Post 9/11 I never went back; I actually made the 9 hour drive for a while instead of flying, and never had the stomach to go back.  Thinking about it, I haven't seen the NYC skyline from the air since the week before, flying out of Newark.  

I have heard that NYC attitude has changed since that date.  Perhaps that should be a near future trade.  Thanks for planting the idea, maybe we'll schedule a rediscovery trip.

M Ross


----------



## hefleycatz (Jun 12, 2010)

Just returned from Cancun and couldn't have had a better time or felt more safer.  We constantly walked up and down the main drag of Hotel Zona and even walked by a Police Station were I asked if I could take pictures of the station and the officers flocked around to have their picture taken with us, posing, joking around, one even taking his huge semi-automatic machine gun out of his car to take pictures with us.  Couldn't have asked for a better week.   There is  crime everywhere.  Mexico is certainly plagued with that.  But in the tourist areas, if you stay smart and don't go looking for things to get into trouble with, you will  not have any trouble.  Mexico is getting a really bad rap thru the Media.  You will never find a place where the people are more friendly and willing to bend over backwards to please you.  The service in Mexico is 2nd to none.   I absolutly fell in love with Lagunamar and of all the Starwood resorts that we have stayed at, this is my absolute favorite.    I can't wait to go back.


----------



## buceo (Jun 12, 2010)

This is an interesting thread.  I know men who at their very secure vacation homes can't sleep at night alone unless they take their guns out of their safe and others who can't ride their ATV's through the same woods I walk all the time unless they have a 9mm under their jacket.  Then my female public defender friend who is obviously well aware of the criminal element will leave a night class, run across lanes of traffic and a couple blocks to public transportation in the DC area (something I wouldn't always tend to do). Some folks seem afraid all the time and some fearless.   I find those going to MX for years to vacation have no issue, those who are "new comers" and see what's on TV have serious reservations. BTW NY is as fantastic as always.


----------



## jbuzzy11 (Jun 14, 2010)

BlindBat said:


> A few months ago I took my Wife and two small kids to Disney in Anaheim and the number of imposing looking thugs sporting clothes and tattoos with the goal of intimidation



  I see you ran into Mickey Mouse....  He took over $1000 from me the last time I was there, He is a thug   :rofl:


----------

