# Carriage Hills 2019 AGM



## jfrisk (Oct 22, 2019)

Did anyone go to the meeting last night?  Just wondering the outcome of vote to close and sell the resort.

When we arrived there was no parking left and the line to get in was around the building and all the way down the side of bldg.

We gave up and went back to the hotel.  At least we had already voted on line.

Judy


----------



## moonstone (Oct 22, 2019)

Didn't go because we aren't a CH/CR owner, we have just taken advantage of a few freebie stays from them since we live 10 minutes away. We are interested in what is happening especially after the fail of the nearby Lodges at Horseshoe timeshare many years ago . I am a member of a Diamond owners Facebook group (based in the USA) and one of the leaders/advocates of the group flew up to attend the meeting as well as to meet with dozens of angry owners the night before. She said the meeting was cancelled at the last minute due to the organizers being overwhelmed by the number of people wanting to attend. The hall that was rented had a capacity of 500 and there were at least another 500 lined up wanting to get in. The organizers and the hall management couldn't provide internet to the people waiting outside so they could see/hear the meeting so they decided not to go on with the meeting at all! Supposedly CTV News was there as well as a local newspaper reporter who interviewed some people but I don't see those anywhere on line yet.  
Here is a photo from the Facebook post with the crowd waiting to get in.





~Diane


----------



## jfrisk (Oct 22, 2019)

Thanks for the information.


----------



## CanuckTravlr (Oct 22, 2019)

Thanks for the update.  We are following this with interest.  We are not owners, but have stayed at Carriage Hills before on an RCI exchange and very much enjoyed it.  It will be a shame if it shuts down, since there are so few nice timeshares near Toronto; but in the end the owners need to do what is in their own best interest.


----------



## jfrisk (Oct 22, 2019)

As reported on another thread the mtce. fees are now up to $1,488.19 per year.  Not worth it.


----------



## Maple_Leaf (Oct 22, 2019)

That picture above looks like a bank run.


----------



## moonstone (Oct 25, 2019)

Here is a link to a recent 'fireside chat' with a Diamond owners advocate and an owner at Carriage Hills Resort about their fight with Wyndham. I didn't know that there was a clause in the deeds that prevented owners' heirs from refusing the ownership upon the death of the owner, and making the heirs liable for maintenance fees for eternity! I would like to see that challenged in a Canadian Court.







~Diane


----------



## Ironwood (Oct 29, 2019)

Diane, thanks for posting this.  Interesting discussion for CH owners, but too much frivolous banter....skip the first 10 minutes.  What was the outcome of the AGM?


----------



## moonstone (Oct 29, 2019)

Ironwood said:


> Diane, thanks for posting this.  Interesting discussion for CH owners, but too much frivolous banter....skip the first 10 minutes.  What was the outcome of the AGM?



You are welcome.   The meeting got rescheduled. The banquet hall that was rented (in Barrie) reached capacity (500) over an hour before the meeting was to begin and by the start time there were around another 500 people in line wanting to hear the meeting. Since no provisions could be made to allow those outside to partake in, or even listen to, the meeting it was decided to reschedule it at a different much larger venue. It is now scheduled for Nov.19th at Casino Rama (outside of Orillia) in a ballroom.  I am not an owner but know several people who are so I will try to get a report of the meeting. I would like to go just to listen but it is our wedding anniversary that day & DH says he has plans for us!


~Diane


----------



## Sandy VDH (Oct 29, 2019)

Wow, that is a lot of people to turn up.  I guess there is a lot of people fed up with things at the resort.


----------



## jfrisk (Oct 30, 2019)

So now unfortunately we will not be able to attend on the 19th, out of the country.  But we did vote before the cancelled mtg. so or proxy is in.


----------



## Maple_Leaf (Nov 25, 2019)

moonstone said:


> I didn't know that there was a clause in the deeds that prevented owners' heirs from refusing the ownership upon the death of the owner, and making the heirs liable for maintenance fees for eternity! I would like to see that challenged in a Canadian Court.



I'm no lawyer, but having executed estates and knowing timeshare management lackeys, sales weasels and their minions, I suspect this is a bunch of disinformation spread by parties with a financial interest in the ongoing payment of maintenance fees by heirs of a deceased owner.  Does it make sense that the deceased could commit future generations to timeshare maintenance fee slavery against their will?  In Ontario an inheritance is a gift, not an obligation.  An heir should consult an attorney first, but probably would need to waive an inheritance in writing in front of a witness, specifically indicating which inheritance (e.g. Carriage Hills timeshare) is being waived.  This waiver is kept by the attorney who acts for the estate.


----------



## moonstone (Nov 25, 2019)

Maple_Leaf said:


> I'm no lawyer, but having executed estates and knowing timeshare management lackeys, sales weasels and their minions, I suspect this is a bunch of disinformation spread by parties with a financial interest in the ongoing payment of maintenance fees by heirs of a deceased owner.  Does it make sense that the deceased could commit future generations to timeshare maintenance fee slavery against their will?  In Ontario an inheritance is a gift, not an obligation.  An heir should consult an attorney first, but probably would need to waive an inheritance in writing in front of a witness, specifically indicating which inheritance (e.g. Carriage Hills timeshare) is being waived.  This waiver is kept by the attorney who acts for the estate.



No that is information by some Carriage Hills owners as reported on a Diamond (Diamond Resorts Owners Advocacy) Facebook group who contacted the organizers (admin?) to see if they could also get help after reading that Diamond was trying to pull the same thing. Carriage Hills is telling people that ownership is eternal and passed onto heirs automatically with no refusal. Diamond is also going after spouses for maintenance fees after the spouse who's name was on the deed died. One couple who were desperately trying to get out of their paid up ownership transferred the deed to just the dying spouses name in hopes that the ownership would die with him. The wife and her lawyer handling the estate fought for over 2 years to get Diamond off her back. I am thinking some lawyers are not knowledgeable with the timeshare industry how to get out of the ownership.


~Diane


----------



## Maple_Leaf (Nov 25, 2019)

moonstone said:


> Carriage Hills is telling people that ownership is eternal and passed onto heirs automatically with no refusal.


Carriage Hills has a financial interest in lying to the owners. Don't believe them. Heirs should not accept the inheritance and have a lawyer draw up a witnessed waiver and deliver it to the estate executor. Don't pay a dime.



moonstone said:


> Diamond is also going after spouses for maintenance fees after the spouse who's name was on the deed died.


I don't think Diamond has anything to do with Carriage Hills so don't pay any attention to Diamond. They're a gang of Las Vegas types who seem to have a history of trying to intimidate board members and owners with Vegas "business practices."


----------



## moonstone (Nov 26, 2019)

Maple_Leaf said:


> I don't think Diamond has anything to do with Carriage Hills so don't pay any attention to Diamond. They're a gang of Las Vegas types who seem to have a history of trying to intimidate board members and owners with Vegas "business practices."



No Carriage Hills & Ridge are now owned by Wyndham (after being bought from Shell) but the woman from the Diamond  group received over 100 letters from disgruntled Carriage Hills owners telling their stories and many asking if she could also help them as she was helping the Diamond owners get our of their contracts & Sampler packages.  Here are some of the letters; https://insidetimeshare.com/the-tue...2g8Mb4-x1gBNj8G4cTi05czcWynAo3_gIUY5Y0lZfvQHE

When Carriage Hills was being built the sales team was heavily marketing the local area up here (I live 10-15 mins away). They really promoted the day use feature which enticed a lot of locals. DH & I enjoyed a free weekend stay as part of the promotions as did many of our friends and neighbours. Since we were already long time timeshare owners and the purchase price of our FL week was about 10% of what they were trying to sell us a similar sized mud season unit for, we declined, and I'm so glad we did. I talked to many people before the presentations and warned them not to buy, but some did and are now kicking themselves for not listening to me.


~Diane


----------



## Ironwood (Nov 27, 2019)

Some 7 or 8 years ago while attending a CH AGM, I recall sitting near a fellow who was evidently a former CH/CR sales person and was in the audience as an owner of quite a few CH weeks (I think it was more than 10) that he was renting out to vacationers.  He identified himself as such to the crowd, and the board and Shell staff present certainly knew who he was.  He was quite active that evening with questions and having been an insider, he cut to the chase which was of real interest to the regular owners.  And I remember the board undertaking to investigate an exit strategy back then.  Obviously not much has changed.  I wonder whether he still holds the units or with knowledge of the system, got himself out long ago?


----------



## Pattris (Feb 19, 2020)

moonstone said:


> No that is information by some Carriage Hills owners as reported on a Diamond (Diamond Resorts Owners Advocacy) Facebook group who contacted the organizers (admin?) to see if they could also get help after reading that Diamond was trying to pull the same thing. Carriage Hills is telling people that ownership is eternal and passed onto heirs automatically with no refusal. Diamond is also going after spouses for maintenance fees after the spouse who's name was on the deed died. One couple who were desperately trying to get out of their paid up ownership transferred the deed to just the dying spouses name in hopes that the ownership would die with him. The wife and her lawyer handling the estate fought for over 2 years to get Diamond off her back. I am thinking some lawyers are not knowledgeable with the timeshare industry how to get out of the ownership.
> 
> 
> ~Diane


I own at other CR/CH. if our heirs can sign the waiver would our estate have any financial obligations or does the unit revert back to Wyndom?


----------



## moonstone (Feb 19, 2020)

Pattris said:


> I own at other CR/CH. if our heirs can sign the waiver would our estate have any financial obligations or does the unit revert back to Wyndom?


I am no lawyer but I do know that nobody is legally required to accept anything left to them in a Will. The lawyer handling your estate would need to ensure that the current (up until time the estate is settled) maintenance fees are paid, then send a copy of the death certificate to Wyndham explaining that the current maintenance fees have been paid, the estate is settled and closed, and there are no heirs for the timeshare.  If there is still an outstanding loan from the purchase of the timeshare that should be paid off as well, but as I understand it (maybe @Grammarhero can weigh in), no timeshare company will chase (try to collect) a debt in a foreign country due to the time and amount of legal paperwork required. 

~Diane


----------



## Maple_Leaf (May 8, 2020)

Carriage Ridge has announced closure until at least May 26.








						Carriage Ridge Resort Operations (COVID-19) as of June 14, 2020 - Carriage Ridge Owners Association
					

JUNE 14, 2020  We are very happy the Carriage Ridge Resort has been up and ... Read More




					carriageridge.ca


----------



## T-Dot-Traveller (May 10, 2020)

Maple_Leaf said:


> Carriage Ridge has announced closure until at least May 26.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



This pretty well matches Ontario as a province /  I would expect that Ontario’s timeline  for the various levels of reopening will be what Carriage Hills proceeds with as their guideline .


----------

