# How to survive a Timeshare Sales Presentation!



## TUGBrian

someone gave me this idea earlier in the week, I liked it =)

thoughts/ideas/things i missed always welcome in this first draft

http://tug2.net/timeshare_advice/timeshare-sales-presentation-information.html


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## csxjohn

I would add,

4. If they won't let you take the contract with you to review yourself or your attorney, don't sign.

I feel this is the most overlooked tactic for forcing them to dismiss you.  We know they won't let you take it so case closed.


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## BJRSanDiego

Great start, Brian.  Good thread.

Some thoughts for adding to it (these are just a few that pop into my head):

*Common misleading promises, partial truths and/or lies that you may hear*:
"If you buy, we'll give you up to 12 Getaways a year for only $149".
"If you own a timeshare, you have flexibility and can travel anywhere and at anytime".  Paris in July?  Hawaii on Valentines day? "No problem" (?)
Selling you a points program with an unreasonably low number of points in order to get the price low.  Check their directory to see how many points you would need for the location, season and size of unit that you would want.
"You only have to pay the maintenance fee if you use the unit. If you don't use the unit, we'll rent it for you and you'll make money".  

*Misleading financial analysis:* 
  - Too long of a timeline - If you are 65 years old, it might not be reasonable to assume that you'll be timeshare traveling for 30 years.  Possible?  Sure.  Likely?  Maybe not.
  - Comparing how much you'll spend staying in a motel for, say 30, years and comparing it to the purchase price of a timeshare.  In most financial presentations, they skip or gloss over the annual maintenance fees which are basically the other HALF of the cost equation.
  - Telling you that a timeshare is an investment that you have forever and which can be left for your children.  Sounds great until such time as you no longer want it but cannot get rid of it.

Another area for consideration is how to sell them that you aren't interested - -I often print out eBay (weeks) listings of recently sold units and ask "why would I buy from the developer when I can buy on the resale market for pennies?".    That typically works.


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## Rent_Share

BJRSanDiego said:


> *Common misleading promises, partial truths and/or lies that you may hear*:
> 
> *Misleading financial analysis:*
> Comparing how much you'll spend staying in a motel for, say 30, years and comparing it to the purchase price of a timeshare. In most financial presentations, they skip or gloss over the annual maintenance fees which are basically the other HALF of the cost equation.


 
 They also omit:
Interest  which at developer rates adds 60 % to the total costs
or in the alternative​ Opportunity costs, - the income the "invested funds" would earn if not spent on timeshare.​


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## LannyPC

*A Couple of Additional Suggestions?*

How about explaining in detail (I actually don't fully know it myself) how the "Parking Pass" ruse works?

Or, "The presentation will only be 60/90/120 minutes."


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## TUGBrian

im not familiar with the "parking pass" ruse?


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## presley

TUGBrian said:


> im not familiar with the "parking pass" ruse?



It happens and Worldmark and probably all other Wyn brands.  At check in, they say you have to go to another desk to get a parking pass.  You are really going to the person who has the job of scheduling timeshare presentations.  They will try to talk you into a presentation, all the while, holding your parking pass.  Usually, a room key gives access to the parking lot and the parking pass is just a junk paper that isn't needed.


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## LannyPC

Neither am I (maybe someone else will chime in) but AFAIK, it's the one where the front desk asks a guess to get a parking pass which somehow leads to a TS presentation.


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## TUGBrian

haha...nice

marriott does something similar on check in with some sort of photo/free gift thing (at least did when i last stayed there a few months back).

least what they were offering as the bait was not required to check in and or park your car!


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## Rent_Share

presley said:


> It happens and Worldmark and probably all other Wyn brands. At check in, they say you have to go to another desk to get a parking pass. You are really going to the person who has the job of scheduling timeshare presentations. They will try to talk you into a presentation, all the while, holding your parking pass. Usually, a room key gives access to the parking lot and the parking pass is just a junk paper that isn't needed.



It's a Wyndham standard, don't know if it's been implemented at Shell yet

 That position is paid on performance (Paid Per Couple Booked) and participates in a minimal spiff in the event you buy


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## presley

Rent_Share said:


> It's a Wyndham standard, don't know if it's been implemented at Shell yet
> 
> That position is paid on performance (Paid Per Couple Booked) and participates in a minimal spiff in the event you buy



I noticed at Seaside that the front desk check in people and the "concierge" parking pass desk employees switched during my stay.  The guy who check us in was a concierge issuing parking passes a few days later and vice versa.  I suppose it is a way for the front desk people to supplement their income.


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## TUGBrian

got this in an email this weekend...wanted to share on the forum =)



> Dear TUG:
> 
> 
> 
> After reading your December 19, 2013, article entitled “How to Survive a Timeshare Presentation,” I just had to let you know about a recent experience my wife and I had while at a conference in Las Vegas.
> 
> 
> 
> While walking through the Paris hotel where we were staying, we came upon a kiosk that looked like an Information Booth.  We were interested in seeing one of the Las Vegas shows, so we stopped to inquire about the shows nearby.  About mid-way through the “information” we were receiving from the helpful gentleman there at the booth, we realized that we were hearing a sales pitch to hear about a timeshare “opportunity” at nearby Wyndam Resort.  My wife and I thought it would not be too painful to listen to the presentation, and they were offering two FREE tickets to the Blue Man Group (which I wanted to see) just for listening to the presentation, so we signed up.
> 
> 
> 
> After 1 hour of the initial sales presentation by a very upbeat and convincing young man, the next stop was a tour of the facility by a pleasant woman in a tight dress who told us all the great things about buying a timeshare at the Wyndam.  She showed us a beautiful 4-bedroom 2400 square foot suite that looked ready for a king.  Then, she led us to a medium-sized meeting room in the business office area of the hotel.   The room had several tables, each with its own experienced sales person, talking to potential buyers who we recognized from the initial sales presentation.
> 
> 
> 
> After another hour of the hard sell with an expert salesman, we continued to resist, so he brought in the sales manager, a very bright young woman who was all business.  She made a few one-time, sign now offers that sounded like good deals, better than the previous sales pitch.  However, when we mentioned that we were members of TUG and wanted to review the contract for a few days while we researched the timeshare market, she became almost rude.  She said that we could review the contract after all the paperwork was done, but that this offer was only good if we signed now.
> 
> 
> 
> So we said “no” one final time, asked for our free tickets to the Blue Man Group, and were subsequently ushered quickly out the door with our vouchers in hand.  Once out the door, there was no beautiful young woman or young man to escort us back to the hotel lobby, so we wandered around looking for signs to the lobby.  Finally, we found our way out of the business office area and back to the lobby with the help of one of the hotel staff.  We went from “VIPs” to nobody just like that.
> 
> 
> 
> Anyway, your article made us feel vindicated that we did the right thing.  We only wish that we could stand at the “Information Booth” at the Paris Hotel and hand out copies of your article to unwary vacationers who undoubtedly get snookered each and every day by these same people.
> 
> 
> 
> Thank you for being one of the best consumer-friendly organizations that I am aware of.  I hope this letter gives you a good feeling for doing the right thing for all of us out here trying to watch out for our hard-earned dollars!


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## Dragos

I'm curious on why the person in the article just didn't hang up the phone after saying no thank you if they where not interested in the gift they where offering for listening to the presentation?


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## pedro47

Suggestion the first thing we do after checking in is to unplug all telephones in our unit.


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## Sandy

Taking copies (or pulling up the web site) of the ebay listings works great!  My brother who goes on these tours routinely pulls out his smartphone showing the same resort for pennies on the dollar, or an even better resort that is listed. You can print them out for the area you are going to and be ready for the sharks. It works every time!


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## Rent_Share

TO 
THE 
INVATATION​


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## Passepartout

Dragos said:


> I'm curious on why the person in the article just didn't hang up the phone after saying no thank you if they where not interested in the gift they where offering for listening to the presentation?



The salesweasels don't often take "no thank you, No, NO, HELL NO, LEAVE ME ALONE!" for an answer. They have no courtesy, and frequently you have to be as snotty to them as they are to you.

Now, it's a lot easier if you aren't enticed by the cheap tickets, meals, money, etc. that they offer you, but many (most?) of us are a tad-bit on the greedy side and want the trinkets, with as quick an exit from the salesroom, or 'update' as possible.

Jim


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## csxjohn

I'm with Rent_Share on this!

I have never been offered enough to entice me to spend any of my vaca time in a sales presentation.  If I needed $100 that bad, I had no business going on vacation.


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## egg1701

csxjohn said:


> I'm with Rent_Share on this!
> 
> I have never been offered enough to entice me to spend any of my vaca time in a sales presentation.  If I needed $100 that bad, I had no business going on vacation.


csxjohn,  I look at it this way one hundred dollars off my next maintenance fees for next year.  The last one was the shortest 1 1/2 hour long. After they did there pitch.  I politely said I can get it on the internet for a penny and I do not like points system which they were trying to push.


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## pacodemountainside

csxjohn said:


> I'm with Rent_Share on this!
> 
> I have never been offered enough to entice me to spend any of my vaca time in a sales presentation.  If I needed $100 that bad, I had no business going on vacation.



Hey, we all have our bags!

I ascribe to don't get mad, get even!

At this  stage of my life  I don't have the energy to  hang out  in French Quarter or Burbon Steet  every night  having  three for  one  happy hour beers and checking out the  "flashers"! Parades   don't start until tonight. 

So,   spending  a couple  hours rattling  sales person's cage   beats  watching TV or GF  dragging on  expensive  shopping expedition!

Within 15 minutes  nailed on three  lies  and  instead of his Pathways    proposed  he give  me $20K and I guaranteed to give him $10K  after one year plus  a free one year membership in TUG!

From a practical point if I have never been to a resort, nice to have  sales person show me where all the good stuff is  and recommend  some  great local spots.


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## gnorth16

csxjohn said:


> I'm with Rent_Share on this!
> 
> I have never been offered enough to entice me to spend any of my vaca time in a sales presentation.  If I needed $100 that bad, I had no business going on vacation.



I have seen some as high as a $500 value and it's not about "needing" money, some do it for legit reasons, others for retribution, the odd one for fun.    I did the Wyndam Vegas one and it was 1 1/2 hours, for a $200 Allegiant Air credit (for my next trip to vegas) and $100 gambing credit (which I turned into $300).  I really did want to see Grand Desert because I wanted to know if I would stay there in the future and was curious the cost to get to VIP status with Wyndham.

All of this was done before my friends were even out of bed.  The free breakfast didn't hurt either!  My wife will never do a presentation again, but if I'm travelling solo, I would consider it.


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## Theousaf

*One more crooked than the next...*

When I went into the Air Force (1979) I was stationed at a SAC base in Merced, California and could catch a flight to Oahu on military aircraft (for $10).  So I went a HI often.  I would often go to timeshare presentations to get a free meal or case of pineapples.   I got to know the salespeople who knew I didn't have a pot to piss in but allowed me to stay anyway.   These were usually "group" presentations and I served as patriotic filler.

So I learned their spiel and over the next 35 years went to many of this presentations all over the world and got educated.  I got books on the subject and learned how to sell myself.   eventually became and stock broker and realtor so I know a little about money and real estate.

Last year, a friend of mine told me about a great deal he got on a timeshare in Aruba so my wife and I flew over to see for ourselves.  After a few days of being pestered by these timeshare hawkers we decided to go to four timeshare presentations, for four different resorts in one day.  Each promised us it would only time 90 minutes and we would get $200 in cash, meals or auto rentals.  We needed to get out of the sun so why not.

At the start of the presentation I showed the presenter that I set an alarm on my phone for 90 minutes and when my phone quacked we were done.  I did and when the duck quacked we walked, of course with $200 worth of cash or goods.

I think it was Occidental's presentation that was the most interesting.  First they insisted that my wife and I had to drink this classic Aruban Drink.  I asked if it had alcohol and they said "of course".  I explained that I don't drink alcohol but they proceeded to push the drinks.  Eventually I said "I know you are going to try to screw us and I need to stay clear headed to catch you".

As always, there is a bubbly, affable salesperson who does the song and dance but then passes you onto the "Finance person" who is all serious.  I think it was at the Occidental or maybe one of the Divi properties when the bubbly salesperson said to me, before handing me off to the finance person, that "You know he is going to want you to buy today".  I said that I wouldn't make such an important decision to spend $30,000 or so without thinking it over.  So she said to my wife "Suppose you went into a store and saw a purse for $800 but you were reluctant to spend that much, so you told the salesperson you'd think about it, then the salesperson said how about $100, would you buy it?"  I said "Absolutely".  Now are you telling me that this finance person's offer will be comparable and she said "yes".

So we meet with the finance guy and he gets to the bottom line $30,000.  But then he pulls out his calculator and proceeds to tell me "But if you sign today…."  At this point I already had my calculator out and told him…"I know, I know"…  We were just told about this special offer and are so excited. I explained that our salesperson already told us about the great deal and I told him about the purse story"  I explained that our salesperson said it would be 1/8 the price or 12.5%, only $3,750.00.  He was flabbergasted.  So I said, call back Nikki, she had slid into another room.  I waited for her return and he refused to sell us the $30,000 for $3,750.  We ended up buying it from an owner we met on the beach for $12,000.

As far as I'm concerned, they are all crooks.   I wouldn't trust them as far as I could throw them.  Caveat emptor.


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## Rent_Share

I don't know exactly what you bought, but at $ 12,500 you may have still significantly overpaid, unless you received a fixed view/location during the absolute highest demand week. YMMV


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## VegasBella

csxjohn said:


> I'm with Rent_Share on this!
> 
> 
> 
> I have never been offered enough to entice me to spend any of my vaca time in a sales presentation.  If I needed $100 that bad, I had no business going on vacation.




I agree. I am not that cheap. My time is more valuable to me.

Maybe if I'm having a crappy vacation and the offer is good enough then I'll seriously consider doing a presentation. But so far I've alway said "no, thanks" and walked away.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## ride2slide

Paco, did you get the old dude with the attitude? He told me my resale points were absolutely worthless and that I'd never get rid of them. He  said that my Nashville MF's were extraordinarily high and not worth it. I told him that I have managed to squeeze out 14 nights in Nashville plus 3 nights in New Orleans, just from my banked 2013, and still have almost all of my 2014 Wyndham points left! The math doesn't lie. So, I am not sure if it was a failed tactic or he thought my MF's were for one week. He said that I was lucky to even get into AP not being an AP owner. I told him, I got a 1BD week @ AP for Christmas. He told me to enjoy the SAME room for the rest of my life. I told him that it was a floating week so I really didn't think it was going to be an issue. He got mad and slithered out. Now, this was the "welcome" to AP in my room, not the so called 90 minute sales pitch. He muttered that he couldn't help me since I only had worthless resale points. He said my family would be stuck with them forever..... All in less than 5 minutes. I had my timer set for 15.

Mindy







pacodemountainside said:


> Hey, we all have our bags!
> 
> I ascribe to don't get mad, get even!
> 
> At this  stage of my life  I don't have the energy to  hang out  in French Quarter or Burbon Steet  every night  having  three for  one  happy hour beers and checking out the  "flashers"! Parades   don't start until tonight.
> 
> So,   spending  a couple  hours rattling  sales person's cage   beats  watching TV or GF  dragging on  expensive  shopping expedition!
> 
> Within 15 minutes  nailed on three  lies  and  instead of his Pathways    proposed  he give  me $20K and I guaranteed to give him $10K  after one year plus  a free one year membership in TUG!
> 
> From a practical point if I have never been to a resort, nice to have  sales person show me where all the good stuff is  and recommend  some  great local spots.


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## pacodemountainside

Hey Mindy:

The guy that came to room  was very nice and immediately sensed I was  only good for  5 minutes  for  a blue blanket!

The 90 minute guy was off the wall.

Interesting,  I  am in the  garden room on computer  and  around 6 sales people  are hanging loose, eating lunch, watching  Maury  and BSing  about their  conquests


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## rhodium1

*maybe when I'm older...*

Perhaps when I'm older or retired and have more time on my hands it will be entertaining to tweak the sales weasels. Right now spending time with my wife and kids is far too important to waste time arguing with a slimeball. I just refuse, hang up on them, or unplug the phone in the unit (or all three!) - whatever is necessary.


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## Rent_Share

The last one we went to DRI South Lake Tahoe - $ 100 + 3 Days/2 Nights at a selected DRI property, subject to availability, no additional presentation required (they tried to schedule it as mandatory).

Using $100 per night, we received approximately $300 in value but found the experience so demeaning we vowed "never again"

On our most recent trip to Hawaii, we went out of our way to schedule with operators that didn't trade their services with OPC desks


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## JoeG9100

*Just Don't GO*

The best advise "Don't Go" Yes I know the gifts are tempting but the 90 mins can turn into hrs. if you buy maybe even more.

We went to one several years ago in PV Mexico we could not pass it up $400 dollars for 90 mins.  It turned into 6 hrs and they were so nice. It was the Bellare Golf and Vacation Club. We were so happy no dues ever! that's what they told us. Because we got in on the ground floor. Nothing was built yet, but within a year they will be done. Then we can come. They will take our Vegas timeshare in trade for 10K, we charged credit cars for 10k and took a 15K note back to Texas with us. 
I decided to do some research when I got home and found TUG. So I did a search and guess what! They had been doing this for almost a year and still  it was just a hole in the ground, people who signed up way before us were told the same thing except the fact nothing was moving. They were all past rescindtion period. I panicked and posted my situation, I still had time, Karen and others  on TUG told me what I needed to do. So I sent the letters and docs. TUG really help bail me out!  It took time, at least 3 months. The CCs were not a problem we disputed the charge and later they just dropped it. Bellare however was going to fight it so, it was going to Mexican court. I had to keep up by email to answer some questions now and then but in the end they did not show up in court, I won. They sent the recindtion letter. 

All this for $400 bucks! I swore never again, Oh except in Bangkok 2 years ago. It is was low pressure vacation club, I got a free weekend and was out in 40 mins.

Best just to use your vacation for what it is, fun and relaxation. Good luck!
Joe


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## ride2slide

Paco, that is too funny. When we were there, we noticed that you can read the computer screen easily as you walk by the window. That seemed like an odd placement to me. Anyway, we loved the place and can't wait to go back this fall!

Mindy

ps...the coupon book that the welcome wagon was delivering turned out to be the same one they will mail you from the see NOLA website. 



pacodemountainside said:


> Hey Mindy:
> 
> The guy that came to room  was very nice and immediately sensed I was  only good for  5 minutes  for  a blue blanket!
> 
> The 90 minute guy was off the wall.
> 
> Interesting,  I  am in the  garden room on computer  and  around 6 sales people  are hanging loose, eating lunch, watching  Maury  and BSing  about their  conquests


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## amycurl

I would include a link to the TUG CafePress site, and add that wearing a TUG shirt, sipping coffee from a TUG mug, or sporting a TUG cap can get you in and out of nearly any presentation quickly and efficiently!

(I had a great experience at SurfWatch in Jan. 40 minutes on a cold, gray Jan. day...not a bad way to spend it.)


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