# I’ll bet I had the highest MVCI maintenance fees for 2019..any takers?



## icydog (Dec 3, 2018)

I added up what I paid on Friday to MVCI and it’s astounding.

I own 1500 DC points and 10 weeks...

My maintenance fees were *$17,186.33*


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## StevenTing (Dec 3, 2018)

Based on the poll I did earlier in the year there are 10 people that pay $20k or more. 

https://tugbbs.com/forums/index.php...ou-spend-on-marriott-maintenance-fees.274583/


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## TUGBrian (Dec 3, 2018)

holy moly


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## Passepartout (Dec 3, 2018)

Wow! Just Wow!


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## Luvtoride (Dec 3, 2018)

icydog said:


> I added up what I paid on Friday to MVCI and it’s astounding.
> 
> I own 1500 DC points and 10 weeks...
> 
> My maintenance fees were *$17,186.33*



You have me beat!  I own 4 weeks and 4,750 DC points.  I paid $9,000 total for ‘18 and haven’t added up my ‘19 yet but estimate it will be about $9,500.  

I don’t rent anything out but use all our weeks and points. Although paying these fees during this 2 month period hurts a little it feels great when I’m booking my trips and not paying for lodging (and /or tour or cruise fees) with my credit card.

Happy Holidays to all! 



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## CalGalTraveler (Dec 3, 2018)

Wow. Relatively speaking for timeshares that's a lot.

However if you owned a nice vacation home you would pay about that much per year plus the headaches of repair


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## vacationtime1 (Dec 3, 2018)

We pay about $10,000 annually for our six units.

We receive about $6,000 in rents for two of them.


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## SeaDoc (Dec 3, 2018)

A much better question is what multiple of value do you derive from your annual maintenance fees?  We get typically 5x value for our $9000 annual maintenance fees... We can deal with that...


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## GregT (Dec 3, 2018)

I am over $20K for just the Marriotts, and then I have all the other stuff...I am at $30K for all of them (but I rent what I don’t use and I actually come out ahead).

Timeshares rock.....

Best,

Greg


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## pedro47 (Dec 3, 2018)

I cannot afford that on my retirement check.


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## TravelTime (Dec 3, 2018)

My maintenance fees for all our timeshares is somewhere between $16,000 and $17,000 per year. Marriott and Vistana are the biggest bulk of this. It is more than I thought. I guess I need to quit buying timeshares until I unload some things. At some point, I may need to rent some out too. I am happy with what we own because we get a lot of value. I used to spend about double this amount on vacations to stay in hotel rooms.We still do spend some out of pocket money on non-timeshare vacations too.


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## Panina (Dec 3, 2018)

Not a Marriott owner but own many timeshares and the mfs add up.  I have owned vacation homes in the past and still own a studio coop in Brooklyn where my mom still lives.  

Paying the timeshare  mfs are much cheaper then owning and maintaining an additional vacation home where I would want to.  With timeshares I am paying for what I use, its not sitting empty most of the time,  I do not have to worry about what’s happening when I am not there such as theft or hurricances, the management company takes care of it all. 

If you can afford it and use them and enjoy them and don’t want the headaches of a second home, the accumulative mfs are not too high


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## mjm1 (Dec 3, 2018)

Ours are now over $10k, which I never would have imagined. However, we love everything in our portfolio and like others get way more value from using them. I think I am now a full time vacation planner and doer! Love it!

Best regards.

Mike


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## vol_90 (Dec 3, 2018)

Happy paying $15,029 in 2019 for 11 weeks, 1 EOY, 3000 Asia Pacific Points and 1,000 Trust Points.  Well worth it vs. owning a vacation home!


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## RX8 (Dec 3, 2018)

Thanks for this post...makes me feel better about my maintenance fees.


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## billymach4 (Dec 3, 2018)

Stop the insanity.


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## icydog (Dec 3, 2018)

icydog said:


> I added up what I paid on Friday to MVCI and it’s astounding.
> 
> I own 1500 DC points and 10 weeks...
> 
> My maintenance fees were *$17,186.33*


I didn’t include my Disney Vacation Club maintenance fees ($5200, but I always rent them out for 3X myfees)  or my incredibly reasonable Grandview ($845)
I also rent out my Marriott weeks but my DVC points are so much easier to rent that there’s no comparison.


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## Panina (Dec 3, 2018)

Just let me add, we lose the fact that desirable vacation  areas can be very expensive to rent hotel rooms. I have friends and family who have paid off season over $3000 for one week in a hotel room.  If they go prime time to the same location it is more then double.  Room rate, taxes, resort fees add up.   And they think I’m nuts owning timeshares. I can vacation many weeks in a timeshare for what one week of hotel rooms will cost.

Just as an example Marco Island, FL.  Check out the rates.  It makes timesharing mfs seem cheap.


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## MOXJO7282 (Dec 3, 2018)

My 2019 MFs come to $45,264.


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## T-Dot-Traveller (Dec 3, 2018)

MOXJO7282 said:


> My 2019 MFs come to $45,264.



Do we have a winner ?


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## silentg (Dec 3, 2018)

We pay 3,000 for 5 timeshares total.


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## bdurstta (Dec 3, 2018)

pedro47 said:


> I cannot afford that on my retirement check.


I agree with this comment!


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## frank808 (Dec 4, 2018)

No pain this month when I use our Hilton and Marriott cards to pay for our HGVC and MVC maintenance fees.  I just use the discover card for our DVC dues for the 1.5% back.

The pain comes in January when I have to write checks to pay those charges  !  When I use my weeks and points, it is nice not having a bill at the end.  Except in Hawaii where you have to pay the TAT.  Have to admit, timeshares have allowed me to stay at places I would have never dreamed of staying at. 

We are now starting to rent our DVC points as my son has grown tired of Aulani and Disney in general.  He did like the 14 nights in the Polynesian bungalows and Copper Creek cabins this past July.  Also starting to cruise a lot more so we have excess weeks and points now.  Will have to rent our Hawaii HGVC weeks now as there are not enough weeks in the year to use all our timeshares.

I will pay MVC over $30k for my Marriott weeks. Then add in the DVC and HGVC mf.

Sent from my SM-T217S using Tapatalk


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## klpca (Dec 4, 2018)

I am not going to do that math. I really don't want to know. It's not nearly as much as you guys, we can easily afford it, and I know that on a per night basis it's a deal, but I still don't want to admit the amount to my husband, lol.


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## pedro47 (Dec 4, 2018)

What is the average weekly cost and what is average nightly cost per vacation for 2018.

When we started over twenty-five (25) years ago. The average daily nightly cost was between $39.00 to $49.00.

Maintenance Fees, were under $400.00 per year.

There were no point clubs. Every timeshare vacation was a fixed week ownership.
You could only exchange thru RCI and II.


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## Dean (Dec 4, 2018)

icydog said:


> I added up what I paid on Friday to MVCI and it’s astounding.
> 
> I own 1500 DC points and 10 weeks...
> 
> My maintenance fees were *$17,186.33*


With our recent 2 added weeks, we have a total of 17 weeks with two being EOY, plus 1000 Trust points.  I would have been #11 since I didn't vote in Steven's poll.


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## rickandcindy23 (Dec 4, 2018)

I have all of you beat.  I am not sayin' the exact amount, but we do have a vacation rental business with our daughter, so if that gives you any clues...

We own 10 million Wyndham points.  We also own a lot of Vistana. I know BocaBum has/ had a thriving business and probably outdoes us by a lot.  

Used to be you could rent as many additional points as you wanted, directly through Wyndham.  Our daughter was doing that each year.  I think one year she rented 20 million points at $5 per thousand.  You can do the math on that.  

But Wyndham changed the rules quite a while back and took that one off of the table.


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## dansimms (Dec 4, 2018)

Here is another question.  Who is Chairman and pays the least in maintenance fees?  I got Grandfathered, so I am holding pat at the equivalent of 13,300 DPs, mostly legacy and with Interval Membership paid about $6500 this month. If and when Chairman moves up above 15,000, I have my fingers crossed that I will stay at Chairman and continue to enjoy those benefits without having to buy more.


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## Sugarcubesea (Dec 4, 2018)

I own 4 weeks, two are flex weeks and two are fixed weeks and my total for 2019 in MF is $2,420


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## Old Hickory (Dec 5, 2018)

This thread has "backdoor brag" written all over it.


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## bizaro86 (Dec 5, 2018)

My MF bill is well below the 5 figure numbers being bandied around here, and I think I have gotten 100% of the vacations I wanted, and I haven't had to rent anything for ~3 years, plus we are fully booked until mid-2020...

Imnsho, spending less on MF is better than spending more...


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## jme (Dec 5, 2018)

bizaro86 said:


> My MF bill is well below the 5 figure numbers being bandied around here, and I think I have gotten 100% of the vacations I wanted, and I haven't had to rent anything for ~3 years, plus we are fully booked until mid-2020...
> 
> *Imnsho, spending less on MF is better than spending more...*




There are two schools of thought on this.

Yes and No.

and you've elucidated on the Yes.

If, however, you own a few weeks and decide one year you cannot (or wish to not) use them all,
and if each one rents for 2-2.5x the maintenance fee, then renting half of them pays all maintenance fees, 
with some cash left over, AND allowing half of the weeks to be occupied for FREE.
Not a bad concept, imnsho.

And furthermore, I've heard tell of the occasional situation whereby a daughter gets married,
and the shrewd owner elects to rent them all.  



.


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## CalGalTraveler (Dec 5, 2018)

+1 The perspective is very different if you are renting out your timeshares to use the proceeds to cover your TS MF or as a small business.  Lowest cost gives way to revenue to MF margin.

Which TS units offer the best revenue to MF margin in the Marriott and other hotel branded systems if one wanted to pursue a "rent to cover your MF on another unit" strategy?  I am assuming it would be 2 bdrm or 3 bdrm lock-offs but where do you get the biggest bang for your buck?


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## bizaro86 (Dec 5, 2018)

jme said:


> There are two schools of thought on this.
> 
> Yes and No.
> 
> ...



That is definitely a valid school of thought as well. I tend to rent a few things I can't use, although nothing I own goes for 2.5x MF. That would definitely improve my thoughts on the matter. I'd probably have to spend more upfront for that though...

If you're covering all your MF (or more) then arguably your net MF cost is zero, which is obviously a pretty sweet place to be.


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## MOXJO7282 (Dec 5, 2018)

CalGalTraveler said:


> +1 The perspective is very different if you are renting out your timeshares to use the proceeds to cover your TS MF or as a small business.  Lowest cost gives way to revenue to MF margin.
> 
> Which TS units offer the best revenue to MF margin in the Marriott and other hotel branded systems if one wanted to pursue a "rent to cover your MF on another unit" strategy?  I am assuming it would be 2 bdrm or 3 bdrm lock-offs but where do you get the biggest bang for your buck?



From my experience without going into too much detail 2BDRM Maui OF in the new towers are number#1, followed by the same in the old towers in Maui, then its Myrtle Beach platinum OF that offer excellent rental value.  I'd also group GO plat OFs on HHI and Aruba plat OF at that level.   

Then there are also many others like Newport Coast and GO OF gold that rent for very good value but not quite like the top tier. Then there are many that rent for $300-$500 above MFs. I know a number of HHI gold weeks fall into this category.

Lastly,  I haven't seen anyone on TUG claim that they rent winter weeks that I can recall but my hunch is several prime ski resorts during prime time rent like tier one as I describe above.  

All in all there are many Marriotts that can be rented above MFs and some much more than others.


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## jme (Dec 5, 2018)

MOXJO7282 said:


> From my experience without going into too much detail 2BDRM Maui OF in the new towers are number#1, followed by the same in the old towers in Maui, then its Myrtle Beach platinum OF that offer excellent rental value.  I'd also group GO plat OFs on HHI and Aruba plat OF at that level.
> 
> Then there are also many others like Newport Coast and GO OF gold that rent for very good value but not quite like the top tier. Then there are many that rent for $300-$500 above MFs. I know a number of HHI gold weeks fall into this category.
> 
> ...




Great insight on those, Joe, and of course you nailed them all. I'd say Hawaii resorts (especially Maui Ocean Club) and Park City Ski weeks are tops (Mountainside especially).  I know those ski weeks garner astronomical rental fees. I'd venture to say the ski weeks might even win out more consistently, but I'd have to check the numbers, and frankly I have no idea how to properly research it quickly other than to check Redweek prices asked, and then extrapolate what I thought happened in real life.  After all, the ski weeks were popular enough to cause Marriott to sell them as Platinum Plus weeks at $50,000 per week.  I have a good friend who bought one and I thought him insane.

You can bet those are rented as much as they are occupied, perhaps more(?).  A ski week in Utah to many families is the ultimate vacation, and they are highly prized and tough to get, as Utah reputedly has the finest powder in the world, and having stayed there 6 years in a row for skiing with my family when our kids were teens, I'd vouch for that. We never visited during those Platinum Plus weeks, but we did stay during ski season, and it was Nirvana. Aruba weeks during winter & especially New Years also are top rental cash producers.  Our Grande Ocean weeks are positive cash flow rentals, but NOTHING like Park City, Hawaii, and Aruba.
In the words of that great and renowned Holiday philosopher, "Good grief".


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## vol_90 (Dec 5, 2018)

MOXJO7282 said:


> From my experience without going into too much detail 2BDRM Maui OF in the new towers are number#1, followed by the same in the old towers in Maui, then its Myrtle Beach platinum OF that offer excellent rental value.  I'd also group GO plat OFs on HHI and Aruba plat OF at that level.
> 
> Then there are also many others like Newport Coast and GO OF gold that rent for very good value but not quite like the top tier. Then there are many that rent for $300-$500 above MFs. I know a number of HHI gold weeks fall into this category.
> 
> ...



Which sites are best for advertising a week for rent?  I have used Redweek with some success.


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## TXTortoise (Dec 5, 2018)

For a relatively painless experience VacationCandy.com works well and presents a more commercial/trusting experience to some renters.  Customer Service is also outstanding.  Their listings tend to price a bit higher than Redweek, so that covers some of the commission and you get paid 50% up front and balance at 60(?) days out.   Doing it as the agent will maximize your return, as the $500 minimum commission on a low value VC listing can be significant.


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## TravelTime (Dec 5, 2018)

Which timeshares are the worst rentals to own?


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## SunandFun83 (Dec 5, 2018)

SeaDoc said:


> A much better question is what multiple of value do you derive from your annual maintenance fees?  We get typically 5x value for our $9000 annual maintenance fees... We can deal with that...


Hi SEADOC....  Nice to see you around.  I think double value is enough, and easier to accomplish.  

I never rent retail anyway because my daughter works for Marriott.


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## billymach4 (Dec 5, 2018)

TravelTime said:


> Which timeshares are the worst rentals to own?


Too many to mention. Take your pick. Orlando, Poconos, las Vegas, Atlantic City.


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## Dean (Dec 6, 2018)

billymach4 said:


> Too many to mention. Take your pick. Orlando, Poconos, las Vegas, Atlantic City.


The ones most overbuilt with timeshares that are otherwise popular destinations include Orlando, Williamsburg, Branson and LV.  And this correlates to a degree to exchange power realizing that Marriott to Marriott exchanging is a special situation.


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## pec@ssp (Dec 8, 2018)

I pay the lowest. Sold my HGVC and gave my Wyndham points back in exchange for 3 years usage. Will rent from you guys if needed in the future. This all happened because I moved to Myrtle Beach.


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## bcancelliere (Dec 8, 2018)

We are at Sky Valley GA mountains in a free standing mountain 2br, 2ba cabin for 4 weeks in the month of August. We Timeshare owners as a group, hire all the management and maintenance personnel. As a result, our maintenance fees run just under $500 per week.


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## Fredflintstone (Dec 8, 2018)

Wow. I just can’t fathom 45 k or more in maintenance fees. But, I guess it’s all relative. If you are making high 6 figures or low 7 figures, it’s mere pocket change. A juicy trust fund would also make this pocket change too I suppose.

It’s nice to associate with the upper crust on TUG .


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## RLS50 (Dec 8, 2018)

Fredflintstone said:


> Wow. I just can’t fathom 45 k or more in maintenance fees. But, I guess it’s all relative. If you are making high 6 figures or low 7 figures, it’s mere pocket change. A juicy trust fund would also make this pocket change too I suppose.
> 
> It’s nice to associate with the upper crust on TUG .
> 
> ...


Actually that is what might be most impressive about what Joe has done.  He isn't some blue blood from the Hamptons.  He just took the right risks at the right time and focused on not only a high quality brand (Marriott) but owning the best of the best inside the Marriott system.   Over the years he has built up a very impressive portfolio.


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## suzannesimon (Dec 9, 2018)

I have 10 timeshares (5 Marriotts, 4 Vistana and 1 Hyatt). Maintenance on them is over $23,000 but I rent what I don’t use to cover it. If I rented all of them, I could clear $20,000 plus.  I own 2 vacation homes and neither of them ever cleared a profit and they were money-losers if I had a mortgage.  At least with timeshares, you don’t have to support them in the off-season.  I’ve found the 3 bedrooms and the Christmas weeks give me the best bang for the buck.  I get triple the maintenance at Westin Lagunamar, $3000 over maintenance at MFC for a 3-bedroom Christmas week, $2000 over maintenance at Aruba Surf Gold 3 bedroom and Harborside at Atlantis 3 bedroom Gold. Harborside are the scariest ones because the maintenance is $3500 each and I stress every year that they won’t rent.  I don’t trade anymore because I rent what I want from other owners.  Cash works better than Points or Interval.


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## MOXJO7282 (Dec 9, 2018)

RLS50 said:


> Actually that is what might be most impressive about what Joe has done.  He isn't some blue blood from the Hamptons.  He just took the right risks at the right time and focused on not only a high quality brand (Marriott) but owning the best of the best inside the Marriott system.   Over the years he has built up a very impressive portfolio.



I don't want this to be about me but I will add some insight because I do think it is a pretty good story for someone who really did come from modest means. 

I do think when people see my portfolio they do assume I am rich kid from the Hamptons that had major resources but there is only one thing true about that, I am from the Hamptons, but not blue blood but from a military family of 9. My father was a great man who had a physical deformity but still managed to serve his country for 30 years (he had polio as a child and had one leg that was small and short and hid it to enlist)  and raise 7 kids.  My favorite vacation story as a kid was one drive from NY to Disney when we all had to sleep in the station wagon one night because we ran out of money.  This is what made me so obsessed with giving my family great vacations because I never had them as a kid.    

I started with one MOC 2BDRM OV in 2002 using a 0% credit card and just kept moving it around from one 0% card to another using the bank's money to pay for it. Back then they didn't even charge a balance transfer fee so it was literally free money. I didn't have a thought about renting TSs back then but was just obsessed with Maui.  It was really a foolish thing to do because we just had our first kid and a mortgage so paying for it was tight.  

I decided to rent it for 2003 and that is when the light bulb went off in my head when I ended up renting my unit for over $3k profit (MFs were $999 and I was able to rent on ebay for over $4k) I played the 0% to perfection and started acquiring one MOC after another the same way. Then I traded into the GO on HHI and we fell in love with the prime Marriotts on HHI and expanded into the area.  

It was really quite easy because I did stick with high demand areas and resorts that i knew would rent very successfully.  At no point could I have maintained my portfolio if my units didn't rent for profit to allow us to pay MFs and take a few nice vacations every year.  Now it has truly mushroomed into a major revenue stream that literally put my daughter through college and now doing the same for my son.  

An amazing experience that I took a risk on and built week by week without money in my pocket using the bank's money to fund my plan. Now the project is self-sustaining and getting into the Marriott TS program really was the best decision I made for my family bar none, not only for the profit but for the amazing quality family time that we've been able to experience. We've been to Maui 7 times and many other great trips around the world, NONE of which would've been possible if i didn't take the risk with Marriott TSs.


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## DWellser (Dec 9, 2018)

icydog said:


> I added up what I paid on Friday to MVCI and it’s astounding.
> 
> I own 1500 DC points and 10 weeks...
> 
> My maintenance fees were *$17,186.33*


I have 10 MVC units, 492k Vistana Village StarOptions, 1 Paradise Village, and 1 Vail Run timeshare unit.  My total maintenance (incl taxes) is $26,340.  But, for retirement purposes, that is cheaper than owning a 'winter' home in Palm Desert or Scottsdale and paying mortgage interest, untilities, prop taxes, maintenance, furniture, security, cable, etc.  The comparison of a house to a timeshare: I would pay $26k for non-equity expenses annually, and would not have all the benefits of a resort, getting to chose my winter vacation spot, having facility updates every 5 and 10 years, and getting to take advantage of any new resort locations.


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## DeeCee (Dec 9, 2018)

icydog said:


> I didn’t include my Disney Vacation Club maintenance fees ($5200, but I always rent them out for 3X myfees)  or my incredibly reasonable Grandview ($845)
> I also rent out my Marriott weeks but my DVC points are so much easier to rent that there’s no comparison.



We also own Marriott and DVC. I’ve only rented DVC twice and recently. Never the Marriott. I’m curious as to how you rent, we used that guy in Canada. However, I’d like to be able to rent myself, confidently. Do you have a rental agreement that you use? If so, may I ask that you share it with me or provide some specific pointers as to how best to rent out without using a third party? Any info would be greatly appreciated. 

Dee


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## suzannesimon (Dec 9, 2018)

DeeCee said:


> We also own Marriott and DVC. I’ve only rented DVC twice and recently. Never the Marriott. I’m curious as to how you rent, we used that guy in Canada. However, I’d like to be able to rent myself, confidently. Do you have a rental agreement that you use? If so, may I ask that you share it with me or provide some specific pointers as to how best to rent out without using a third party? Any info would be greatly appreciated.
> 
> Dee


I use RedWeek primarily.  Any other service providers can find it on there.  I also post it on Vacationcandy.com.  Rented 2 weeks this year on AirBnB when I started to panic, but you have to wait until the renters occupy before they release the money to you.


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## DeeCee (Dec 9, 2018)

Thank you so much.


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## Coach Boon (Dec 9, 2018)

I might be in the wrong topic as it relates to rentals so I apologize if this is the case. 

My question relates to liability of the owner when renting his/her week. Do you need insurance to cover damages in the event the renter causes damage to the unit?


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## TXTortoise (Dec 9, 2018)

Coach Boon said:


> I might be in the wrong topic as it relates to rentals so I apologize if this is the case.
> 
> My question relates to liability of the owner when renting his/her week. Do you need insurance to cover damages in the event the renter causes damage to the unit?



Might want to start another thread, but generally renter is liable for damages, and should be stated in rental agreement. Ultimately the resort could come back at you, but haven't heard of it.

https://tugbbs.com/forums/index.php?threads/liability-rental-agreement-advice.227479/#post-1761784

And a number of threads via search, and check out the Rental Forum...

https://tugbbs.com/forums/index.php?search/2935112/&q=liability+renting+unit&o=date


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## hangloose (Dec 9, 2018)

I own 5 MVC weeks (all lock-offs), with a $10k annual maintenance fee.  Only 3 are enrolled in DC, 2 not enrolled.  No DC Pts (too expensive).

While pricey, I feel it's worth it given the fantastic memories we have made in high quality accommodations.  For my high demand resorts, I do have the option to rent for above MFs if I don't use. This has worked well, but does require effort.

We don't plan to pickup any additional weeks at this point.


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## ilene13 (Dec 10, 2018)

I hate this type of thread!  We bought our first timeshare in 1980.  At one point we owned a high of 10 weeks.  We are down to 7 weeks and 2000 Destination points.  We bought with the thought of permanent vacations, not with the idea of going into the rental business.  We have rented out our units when we were unable to use them.  As the Marriott booking issues arise every year I get aggravated with the idea that people use their timeshares as a business.  This year we made a decision with the help of a fabulous Marriott salesperson named Joni Pippa to start using our weeks differently.  So I avoided my annual aggregation with booking my weeks 51 & 52 for Aruba next year, turned them into DP, and we’re doing a 19 day trip to China.  So between my Marriott and my  3 weeks that we own with the Royal Resorts in Mexico our fees are around $10,000.


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## rapmarks (Dec 10, 2018)

Eye opener for me
All the threads on owning timeshares instead of vacation homes 
We own a vacation home and a home in a no income tax state.  
Our expenses for both homes are less than some of you pay for maintenance fees and the money we save on state income tax offsets the costs of the home.  And that includes cost of cleaning lady and outside yard maintenance.  
Plus we would have the option of renting out our home in the alternate season.
Still has the negative of the responsibility of owning two homes.


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## jme (Dec 10, 2018)

rapmarks said:


> Eye opener for me
> All the threads on owning timeshares instead of vacation homes
> We own a vacation home and a home in a no income tax state.
> Our expenses for both homes are less than some of you pay for maintenance fees and the money we save on state income tax offsets the costs of the home.  And that includes cost of cleaning lady and outside yard maintenance.
> ...



I'm not convinced yet, so help me.
Did you include all utilities and insurance?  
Seems to me those two alone would make your annual expenses more than a maintenance fee.


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## rapmarks (Dec 10, 2018)

jme said:


> I'm not convinced yet, so help me.
> Did you include all utilities and insurance?
> Seems to me those two alone would make your annual expenses more than a maintenance fee.


I am not talking about one maintenance fee, there are people here saying 25,000 and 30,000 maintenance fees.   
I can rent my homes out too, and my summer home is in in a ski area, and my southern home is near the gulf beaches.
But let’s compare correctly, I am not comparing to one week maintenance fee.


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## CalGalTraveler (Dec 10, 2018)

On the positive side, your investment in a vacation home will likely appreciate. Location, location, location. 

On the negative side, renovating a vacation home or dealing with a disaster could cost tens of thousands.


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## Luvtoride (Dec 10, 2018)

CalGalTraveler said:


> On the positive side, your investment in a vacation home will likely appreciate. Location, location, location.
> 
> On the negative side, renovating a vacation home or dealing with a disaster could cost tens of thousands.



Very true CalGal.  I just had to replace the HVAC in my beach condo after owning for less than 1 year.  No other “owners” to split the cost with.  Yes I realize I have access to it 52 weeks a year but it sure feels a lot worse than replacing things in our Timeshares thru Maint fees.  


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## CalGalTraveler (Dec 10, 2018)

Duplicate


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## Sunbum (Dec 10, 2018)

I am just over $31,000 all in. (For better or for worse).


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## jme (Dec 10, 2018)

rapmarks said:


> I am not talking about one maintenance fee, there are people here saying 25,000 and 30,000 maintenance fees.
> I can rent my homes out too, and my summer home is in in a ski area, and my southern home is near the gulf beaches.
> But let’s compare correctly, I am not comparing to one week maintenance fee.



OK, got it......I read the post too quickly and totally missed your point. To be honest, I agree with you....
I've always thought owning a beach house or mountain home
would be a far better investment than timeshares. Don't think there's any argument about that.
Sudden unforeseen expenses can be a real bummer for sure, but in the long run, you will (should) reap a much better return.

Rather than doing that, I chose convenience and variety of vacations----all for the smaller upfront buy-in,
and accepting the inherent reality of negligible return.
At the time, I didn't want to be "tied down", and I would also avoid some measure of risk that accompanies
full ownership and commitment to a single vacation property. Plus, with timeshares I could get in incrementally and not overextend so much. 


Not as wise, but it's worked out to be fun anyway. Luckily we chose quality timeshares in great locations, and it's been an enjoyable experience, and our children have been very happy. We'll continue to enjoy it.
Definitely two different approaches.

Our maintenance fees are high, but if managed wisely, it all turns into a net gain, as we rent a few weeks and use a few weeks, getting maintenance fees covered by the rentals and free stays too. Some years we don't rent enough to have a gain, but that's by choice and it's OK, but the option always exists to rent more and have a nice positive cash flow. I'm OK with the freedom to go either way while knowing I'll never feel pressured to "get out".


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## talkamotta (Dec 12, 2018)

You also have to consider what your original cost of the timeshare/ years of ownership.  I have 7.5 weeks i pay 8k in mfs.    I originally spent 17k on the timeshares over 15 years ago.  Granted only 5 of my timeshares are  gold crown and the rest are nice but not gc.  3 are Hawaii, so that's why the higher mfs.  None are Marriott and 2 are wyndam.  You also have to consider rci, II, etc fees.  That's your true cost of your week.  I'm happy to pay $220 a night for a 2 bedroom  1600 square foot ocean front timeshare, my original cost was 4k but I think I can sell it for that but let's just add another 300 for the week so that makes it $260 per night.  I always estimate high. I can't find a rental for that amount.  This way I can plan a year ahead so I have time to do the frequent flyer game and rental car deals.  We also eat most of our meals in the condo.  Yeah costco.  I never thought I would be able to visit Hawaii or the other places I've been to, not to mention inviting my family.   It's been a true blessing.


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## talkamotta (Dec 12, 2018)

jme said:


> Great insight on those, Joe, and of course you nailed them all. I'd say Hawaii resorts (especially Maui Ocean Club) and Park City Ski weeks are tops (Mountainside especially).  I know those ski weeks garner astronomical rental fees. I'd venture to say the ski weeks might even win out more consistently, but I'd have to check the numbers, and frankly I have no idea how to properly research it quickly other than to check Redweek prices asked, and then extrapolate what I thought happened in real life.  After all, the ski weeks were popular enough to cause Marriott to sell them as Platinum Plus weeks at $50,000 per week.  I have a good friend who bought one and I thought him insane.
> 
> You can bet those are rented as much as they are occupied, perhaps more(?).  A ski week in Utah to many families is the ultimate vacation, and they are highly prized and tough to get, as Utah reputedly has the finest powder in the world, and having stayed there 6 years in a row for skiing with my family when our kids were teens, I'd vouch for that. We never visited during those Platinum Plus weeks, but we did stay during ski season, and it was Nirvana. Aruba weeks during winter & especially New Years also are top rental cash producers.  Our Grande Ocean weeks are positive cash flow rentals, but NOTHING like Park City, Hawaii, and Aruba.
> In the words of that great and renowned Holiday philosopher, "Good grief".


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## Dean (Dec 12, 2018)

Coach Boon said:


> I might be in the wrong topic as it relates to rentals so I apologize if this is the case.
> 
> My question relates to liability of the owner when renting his/her week. Do you need insurance to cover damages in the event the renter causes damage to the unit?


The owner is liable technically so there is risk but it's minimal and not enough to justify insurance.  There are a handful of examples I've seen over the years, mostly related to non payment rather than damages.  I have talked to a few GM's over the years that gave stories of damages and charges.  IIRC they went after the CC on the stay first but back to the owners if that didn't cover it for some reason.


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## M3HNPC (Dec 12, 2018)

Question for all those who made a business out of this: when you rent out your week you will have to report the rental income, correct?  Then can you report the maintenance fee as expenses?


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## Steve Fatula (Dec 12, 2018)

rapmarks said:


> Eye opener for me
> All the threads on owning timeshares instead of vacation homes
> We own a vacation home and a home in a no income tax state.
> Our expenses for both homes are less than some of you pay for maintenance fees and the money we save on state income tax offsets the costs of the home.  And that includes cost of cleaning lady and outside yard maintenance.
> ...



It also assumes you always want to vacation at the exact same place. It wouldn’t help me fo Fiji and Thailand next year, Spain and Australia this year, etc. If you do want same location, sure, you can be right.


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## Dean (Dec 12, 2018)

M3HNPC said:


> Question for all those who made a business out of this: when you rent out your week you will have to report the rental income, correct?  Then can you report the maintenance fee as expenses?


That's correct.  There are extremely few people that make a true business out of owning and renting timeshares and to be honest, it's likely not a great plan to do so.  Technically you'd report the income in the year you received it as regular income and deduct any DIRECT expenses mostly maintenance fees, add costs, escrow and similar.  But effectively one cannot depreciate or deduct any purchase or long term costs.  It's technically possible to meet those requirements but it's effectively impossible if you use it at all for personal use.    The truth is many don't but they are in violation of the tax code even if they don't get a 1099.  And the free 15 days of rental for a condo doesn't apply either.


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## rapmarks (Dec 12, 2018)

Steve Fatula said:


> It also assumes you always want to vacation at the exact same place. It wouldn’t help me fo Fiji and Thailand next year, Spainand Australia this year, etc. If you do want same location, sure, you can be right.


Up until this past year or so, we took about five timeshare vacations a year.  Owning two homes does not preclude traveling.  I have many friends with a third home, and friends with two go on big trips and cruises too.  Our neighbor just got back from a two month cruise/trip and own two homes.  
I fully understand the problems of home ownership.  I am having a lot of problems this year, everything falls on me, and it is really getting me down.


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## talkamotta (Dec 12, 2018)

Lived in Salt Lake all my life. Ski rentals are extremely high Christmas to New Years day and President week.  They go down a touch 2 weeks in January.  If your main reason for going is the skiing and you are good.Snowboard and Iron Blossom are the best.  Alta and Snowbird has the best and most snow.  It's a secret.  Just buy your food before you go up the mountain, not a lot of restaurant choices.


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## M3HNPC (Dec 12, 2018)

Dean said:


> That's correct.  There are extremely few people that make a true business out of owning and renting timeshares and to be honest, it's likely not a great plan to do so.  Technically you'd report the income in the year you received it as regular income and deduct any DIRECT expenses mostly maintenance fees, add costs, escrow and similar.  But effectively one cannot depreciate or deduct any purchase or long term costs.  It's technically possible to meet those requirements but it's effectively impossible if you use it at all for personal use.    The truth is many don't but they are in violation of the tax code even if they don't get a 1099.  And the free 15 days of rental for a condo doesn't apply either.


Thanks Dean.  Like someone else commented, it is quite an eye opener to me.  Very interesting but it would be too stressful for me


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## Steve Fatula (Dec 12, 2018)

rapmarks said:


> Up until this past year or so, we took about five timeshare vacations a year.  Owning two homes does not preclude traveling.  I have many friends with a third home, and friends with two go on big trips and cruises too.  Our neighbor just got back from a two month cruise/trip and own two homes.
> I fully understand the problems of home ownership.  I am having a lot of problems this year, everything falls on me, and it is really getting me down.



That's great as far as doing both. I was more speaking of those doing an either or, they each can have their place. Sorry to hear of the troubles though.  As I get older, I find I don't deal with problems as easily as I used to. I know what you mean.


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## Dean (Dec 13, 2018)

M3HNPC said:


> Thanks Dean.  Like someone else commented, it is quite an eye opener to me.  Very interesting but it would be too stressful for me


Stress of renting?  It shouldn't be if you make good choices. Rent early in the UY, be clear on terms including it's non refundable, have reasonable terms for both sides and only/mostly rent current UY points.  Or else rent through a broker.  I had a max of 885 points at one time, I'm down to 433 by selling off all OKW points.  Almost all stays the last 18 years (owned since 94) have been on exchanges.  I'd estimate that 95% of the unit nights we've had during that time have been on exchange.  So by default I've rented.  We have used it more the last 2-3 years as the newer resorts have come on board with higher points and less exchange options.


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## jtdillian (Dec 13, 2018)

Wow...I am feeling the love so many of you have for your Marriott timeshares! Please make me (most of us on here) feel better about we own...how do you estimate your main fee are less than it would be for traveling without owning or the 2nd home option? I think the sales folks try to compare own vs. rent or maybe it’s vise versa or are you looking at the value of Marriott Rewards for air packages?


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## Dean (Dec 13, 2018)

jtdillian said:


> Wow...I am feeling the love so many of you have for your Marriott timeshares! Please make me (most of us on here) feel better about we own...how do you estimate your main fee are less than it would be for traveling without owning or the 2nd home option? I think the sales folks try to compare own vs. rent or maybe it’s vise versa or are you looking at the value of Marriott Rewards for air packages?


I can't speak for others but for me it's roughly the same as what I could travel with hotels if I put major effort into getting the best deals but it gives options including space, kitchen and activities.  Personally timeshares have also "forced" me to do some traveling I likely wouldn't have done otherwise and allowed us to do some larger family things we couldn't have done without timeshares like 51 people in HH 1.5 yrs ago or the same for this coming summer.


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## MOXJO7282 (Dec 13, 2018)

talkamotta said:


> I never thought I would be able to visit Hawaii or the other places I've been to, not to mention inviting my family.   It's been a true blessing.


This is truly the biggest positive from our ownership. There is no way no how we could've visited Maui 7x and many other wonderful locations without owning Marriott TSs and my rental efforts. Even though I'm renting TSs I don't see it as a business but a means to providing priceless family vacations for my family and to fulfill our goal of spending a month on the beach in Maui and HHI. When I reflect on my Marriott experience I don't measure it by the money I've made but by the family vacations we've taken and God willing will take for another 25 years or so. That is how it all started for us, an obsession of taking my family on special vacations and it just evolved into owning 26 weeks.

As for the tax aspect of renting TSs, I won't go into detail about how I manage that but it's pretty much like Dean says and is like any other income stream that you have to report that has certain guidelines you have to follow. I do it "by the book" working with a reputable account and it works out fine. Of course Uncle Sam takes his piece but with the right properties you can still do very well with renting Marriott TSs.


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## Steve Fatula (Dec 13, 2018)

jtdillian said:


> Wow...I am feeling the love so many of you have for your Marriott timeshares! Please make me (most of us on here) feel better about we own...how do you estimate your main fee are less than it would be for traveling without owning or the 2nd home option? I think the sales folks try to compare own vs. rent or maybe it’s vise versa or are you looking at the value of Marriott Rewards for air packages?



Well, staying at the same places for 4 weeks in our Australia trip would have been 10k more renting (we tracked it on that one trip). But, you could say try a cheap hotel, well, not many cheap where we were and it's apples vs oranges anyway as comparing a nice 2br timeshare vs a hotel, sorry, hotels not good enough for us. Maybe when we get old enough we'd need a hotel, we'll see. Probably won't travel if we have to stay in hotel rooms! There are numerous side benefits to timeshares that most do not count.

I know many here do not see sales presentations as a benefit, they paid for 3 flights to Australia and back, Spain this year, and, they are paying for flight to Fiji and Thailand next year. That's real money. Combined with stays from TS in all those places, I'll take it any day.

As Dean mentioned, we would likely never have paid for those trips without TS.


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## CalGalTraveler (Dec 13, 2018)

Duplicate


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## M3HNPC (Dec 13, 2018)

Dean said:


> Stress of renting?  It shouldn't be if you make good choices. Rent early in the UY, be clear on terms including it's non refundable, have reasonable terms for both sides and only/mostly rent current UY points.  Or else rent through a broker.  I had a max of 885 points at one time, I'm down to 433 by selling off all OKW points.  Almost all stays the last 18 years (owned since 94) have been on exchanges.  I'd estimate that 95% of the unit nights we've had during that time have been on exchange.  So by default I've rented.  We have used it more the last 2-3 years as the newer resorts have come on board with higher points and less exchange options.



Sorry, what is UY and OKW?   Well, I attempted to rent my Newport Coast week last year, 2nd week of June, (thought it was a high demand year because I previously had trouble book it even 13 month ahead) for fairly market price (I checked redweek).  No bites 60 days out, so I had take it off and deposited in II.  I wanted to trade for Phuket but it didn't come through so I thought ok, I'll trade for Ko  Olina.  It came through for May 2019.  So now I am renting my own Ko Olina July 4 week, no bites yet.  I know I still have some time.  So all these dependencies are stress to me.


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## frank808 (Dec 13, 2018)

OKW=Old Key West a disney vacation club timeshare.

UY is when the points are loaded into your account.  This has to do with mostly when you have to bank and save points.  In the UY are different months such as Feb, March, April, etc.  There are no contracts with a Jan use year and a couple other months.  It is a dvc nuance.





M3HNPC said:


> Sorry, what is UY and OKW?   Well, I attempted to rent my Newport Coast week last year, 2nd week of June, (thought it was a high demand year because I previously had trouble book it even 13 month ahead) for fairly market price (I checked redweek).  No bites 60 days out, so I had take it off and deposited in II.  I wanted to trade for Phuket but it didn't come through so I thought ok, I'll trade for Ko  Olina.  It came through for May 2019.  So now I am renting my own Ko Olina July 4 week, no bites yet.  I know I still have some time.  So all these dependencies are stress to me.



Sent from my SM-T217S using Tapatalk


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## Dean (Dec 13, 2018)

M3HNPC said:


> Sorry, what is UY and OKW?   Well, I attempted to rent my Newport Coast week last year, 2nd week of June, (thought it was a high demand year because I previously had trouble book it even 13 month ahead) for fairly market price (I checked redweek).  No bites 60 days out, so I had take it off and deposited in II.  I wanted to trade for Phuket but it didn't come through so I thought ok, I'll trade for Ko  Olina.  It came through for May 2019.  So now I am renting my own Ko Olina July 4 week, no bites yet.  I know I still have some time.  So all these dependencies are stress to me.


Frank answered the other questions.  The point is that planning and good choices can reduce the stress.  Personally for Marriott I have weeks, points, II Marriott deposits, II non Marriott deposits and RCI options.  So for HI this past summer we had a week on Maui followed by a week on Oahu then Kauai all with Marriott.  Se booked Maui on points then got a studio exchange then upgraded that to a 1BR.  For Oahu I own a week but booked on points then got exchanges to cover the rooms needed for 15 people and took points on the week I own there.  For Kauai I booked 3 units on points but got 2 exchanges and cancelled the points reservations.  I then turned to Aruba to use those points and have done the same with exchanges for a portion.  I'll reallocate those points freed up into our Grande Ocean weeks.  Usually if I rent Marriott it's my Grande Oceans weeks.


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