# Willow Ridge EOY



## Saintsfanfl (Jul 11, 2013)

Just closed for $1,100. Wow! I think this is driven by some who mistakenly believe they are receiving half the maintenance fee for free. Even with that erroneous assumption, it seems high. Weren't we surprised a short while ago when an annual went for $1,250?


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## ScubaKat (Jul 11, 2013)

I was watching that auction too.  I don't have any Marriott EOY but did have a Starwood one.  Does Marriott not bill half MF each year for EOY weeks like the listing states?  Thanks!


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## got4boys (Jul 11, 2013)

I was watching that one too!

Yes, Marriott bills every other year units and splits the maintenance fees in half.


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## stoler527 (Jul 11, 2013)

*EOY maintenance*

Marriott charges the split maintenance in the year of use and the year after. For example, for 2014 usage, Marriott charges in 2014 and 2015. Many PCC sellers charge buyers for the maintenance in the year before usage. So those buyers are paying half the maintenance for the last usage of the previous owner.

I don't bid on the weeks that charge me an extra half maintenance for the year before usage. I would feel that I was ripped off. I think that some bidders do not realize how Marriott charges EOY maintenance and think that the split maintenance is paid in the year of usage and the year before. 

Probably most timeshare owners including me, have been ripped off of greater or smaller amounts. It all comes down to knowledge of how it all works.


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## Saintsfanfl (Jul 12, 2013)

In reality, it probably doesn't matter how a particular resort bills as long as it is half every year. The reason is because nobody wants to eat that half fee without usage. So when you go to sell you probably won't get the value for it regardless. 

I have another non-Marriott EOY that also first billed half in the year of usage just like my Marriott. They require maintenance paid before exchanging but they only require the half and not the year after. I suspect most resorts do this no matter how the cycle began and this is why you see so many EOYs on eBay where the PCC either wants reimbursement or they advertise it for free. They don't want to eat it either.


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## Chrispee (Jul 12, 2013)

I was going to bid on this one, and was surprised when it shot up to over $1000.  The ad had all sorts of misleading errors.  It was listed as platinum weeks, but mentioned silver weeks as well.  The "free 2013 usage" is a strange way to voice the fact that the 2013 dues were paid.  This unit sold for double what I thought it would go for!


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## Saintsfanfl (Jul 12, 2013)

Chrispee said:


> I was going to bid on this one, and was surprised when it shot up to over $1000.  The ad had all sorts of misleading errors.  It was listed as platinum weeks, but mentioned silver weeks as well.  The "free 2013 usage" is a strange way to voice the fact that the 2013 dues were paid.  This unit sold for double what I thought it would go for!



No kidding! I got clarification on exactly what it was from Sean and I was expecting bidders to get scared away by the strange info. I sniped at something between $300 and $400.


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## fillde (Jul 12, 2013)

Amazing it went so high eoy plus its not a lockoff unit.


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## Saintsfanfl (Jul 12, 2013)

fillde said:


> Amazing it went so high eoy plus its not a lockoff unit.



This is a common misconception perpetuated by Marriott clerks and PCC's that do not thoroughly understand what they are dealing with. There is no such thing as "not a lock-off unit" at this resort. It is a floating unit system so all units have the exact same right to lock-off.


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## fillde (Jul 12, 2013)

Saintsfanfl said:


> This is a common misconception perpetuated by Marriott clerks and PCC's that do not thoroughly understand what they are dealing with. There is no such thing as "not a lock-off unit" at this resort. It is a floating unit system so all units have the exact same right to lock-off.



Hah. I pm'd Sean about the lockoff feature and he said it wasn't a lockoff. Never bid on it for that reason but like others have said, I believe the price was too high.


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## Quadmaniac (Jul 12, 2013)

fillde said:


> Hah. I pm'd Sean about the lockoff feature and he said it wasn't a lockoff. Never bid on it for that reason but like others have said, I believe the price was too high.



The deeded unit was probably a non-lock off unit as there are both at the resort, but you have the ability to reserve a lock off if there is still availability. When there isn't and you are using it for deposit into II, they will sometimes issue you a supplemental week which they use to create a placeholder for your week that they "made in the system" for you. This is what they did for me when I bought my unit.

This auction was just a matter of a couple of individuals who wanted to have it at all costs and in these cases, I would just stand back and let it happen. Way too much for EOY IMHO.


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## TheTimeTraveler (Jul 12, 2013)

Saintsfanfl said:


> This is a common misconception perpetuated by Marriott clerks and PCC's that do not thoroughly understand what they are dealing with. There is no such thing as "not a lock-off unit" at this resort. It is a floating unit system so all units have the exact same right to lock-off.






Actually, some of the Villas at this Marriott Resort are dedicated two bedroom units (which are not lock off capable) so it's important to be sure to reserve a lock off unit so that the lock off option remains as a viable option for your use.




.


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## Saintsfanfl (Jul 13, 2013)

TheTimeTraveler said:


> Actually, some of the Villas at this Marriott Resort are dedicated two bedroom units (which are not lock off capable) so it's important to be sure to reserve a lock off unit so that the lock off option remains as a viable option for your used.



Understood, but that is a different issue. To believe that the purchase is or is not a lockoff is erroneous. Both deeded units have the exact same usage capabilities. 

To that end I have also seen Marriott clerks designate "not a lock-off" on estoppels for a resort that only has lock-offs. Sean will blindly go by whatever they put on the estoppel.


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## Quadmaniac (Jul 13, 2013)

Saintsfanfl said:


> Understood, but that is a different issue. To believe that the purchase is or is not a lockoff is erroneous. Both deeded units have the exact same usage capabilities.
> 
> To that end I have also seen Marriott clerks designate "not a lock-off" on estoppels for a resort that only has lock-offs. Sean will blindly go by whatever they put on the estoppel.



As these deeds are titled to a specific week and unit, it would be correct if it was deeded as a non-lock off. If I was in the position of selling it, I would state it as the deed declares it to be, then a buyer could not go back saying that you had promised them a lock off when technically it is not, even though you have the ability to. I think it is important to accurately represent what is being sold and I see nothing wrong with what the seller has done in this listing. It is what it is.

Knowing that it can be locked off is a separate issue and unless you really know the resort and the policies of Marriott, you might not know that it can be locked off. As a mass seller, I'm not sure it is fair to expect them to know the ins and outs of every timeshare system. As long as they are representing what they are selling accurately, I think that is the extent of their "duty of care". How we use it as the end user is not really of concern to the seller nor should it be, that is up to the buyer to know how to use it properly.


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## Saintsfanfl (Jul 13, 2013)

Quadmaniac said:


> As these deeds are titled to a specific week and unit, it would be correct if it was deeded as a non-lock off. If I was in the position of selling it, I would state it as the deed declares it to be, then a buyer could not go back saying that you had promised them a lock off when technically it is not, even though you have the ability to. I think it is important to accurately represent what is being sold and I see nothing wrong with what the seller has done in this listing. It is what it is.
> 
> Knowing that it can be locked off is a separate issue and unless you really know the resort and the policies of Marriott, you might not know that it can be locked off. As a mass seller, I'm not sure it is fair to expect them to know the ins and outs of every timeshare system. As long as they are representing what they are selling accurately, I think that is the extent of their "duty of care". How we use it as the end user is not really of concern to the seller nor should it be, that is up to the buyer to know how to use it properly.



Does the deed state lock-off or not a lock-off? I don't think it does but I do understand the specific unit may or may not be a compatible type. The deed itself does not convey the "lock-off" ability. Even if the technical deeded unit has that ability, the deed does not convey this right. The lock-off ability is only within the reservation system. 

I think the PCC's should do a better job when the situation is the other way around. When they state that a unit "IS a lock-off", most buyers mistakenly assume that they will always be able to lock-off the unit. People understand the term "lock-off" as the ability for a reservation and not just a physical door within the deeded unit.

Another similar example is a recent eBay listing for a 2BR Townhouse at Lakehshore Reserve. The specific unit number may or may not be an actual 2BR Townhouse unit, but we all know there is no ownership tied to just the Townhouses for usage purposes. The ownership is called "2BR Deluxe" and you are not guaranteed a Townhouse reservation.


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## Quadmaniac (Jul 13, 2013)

Saintsfanfl said:


> Does the deed state lock-off or not a lock-off? I don't think it does but I do understand the specific unit may or may not be a compatible type. The deed itself does not convey the "lock-off" ability. Even if the technical deeded unit has that ability, the deed does not convey this right. The lock-off ability is only within the reservation system.
> 
> I think the PCC's should do a better job when the situation is the other way around. When they state that a unit "IS a lock-off", most buyers mistakenly assume that they will always be able to lock-off the unit. People understand the term "lock-off" as the ability for a reservation and not just a physical door within the deeded unit.
> 
> Another similar example is a recent eBay listing for a 2BR Townhouse at Lakehshore Reserve. The specific unit number may or may not be an actual 2BR Townhouse unit, but we all know there is no ownership tied to just the Townhouses for usage purposes. The ownership is called "2BR Deluxe" and you are not guaranteed a Townhouse reservation.



No the deed itself does not convey lock off ability, but you have to consider most people are not as technical about all the details about how their timeshare works. Most want to know the exact details of the subject property, as it is what they are going to use. Many do not know ins and outs like we do, so it better to state it accurately what is being sold.

How often do we hear about people buying a timeshare, getting frustrated as they can't make use of it and want out ? 

At the end of the day, it is really up to the end user to know what is what and how to use it like locking it off / the lock off ability.


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## ScubaKat (Jul 13, 2013)

I was the only one who bid on one of my Harbour Lake weeks because the seller was telling people that it did not lock-off and they were locked in to only using week 52 every year!  I didn't really feel like pointing out those issues with the listing to the seller.. 



Quadmaniac said:


> No the deed itself does not convey lock off ability, but you have to consider most people are not as technical about all the details about how their timeshare works. Most want to know the exact details of the subject property, as it is what they are going to use. Many do not know ins and outs like we do, so it better to state it accurately what is being sold.
> 
> How often do we hear about people buying a timeshare, getting frustrated as they can't make use of it and want out ?
> 
> At the end of the day, it is really up to the end user to know what is what and how to use it like locking it off / the lock off ability.


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## Quadmaniac (Jul 13, 2013)

ScubaKat said:


> I was the only one who bid on one of my Harbour Lake weeks because the seller was telling people that it did not lock-off and they were locked in to only using week 52 every year!  I didn't really feel like pointing out those issues with the listing to the seller..



Yep that is what happened with the Harbour Lake I bought for my brother last month. We got it for a pretty reasonable price and many times, it is to our benefit that they list it the way the deed states it and the people who really know, pick up on it right away.

I don't think it is up to us to educate the seller or the other bidders what's what. I like it when competing bidders are confused


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## Saintsfanfl (Jul 25, 2013)

Another one just ended at over $1K.


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## Quadmaniac (Jul 26, 2013)

Still not understanding why EOY go for as much or more than EY ???


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## dioxide45 (Jul 26, 2013)

Quadmaniac said:


> Still not understanding why EOY go for as much or more than EY ???



Perhaps because people know there is no fear of losing it due to ROFR? So more bidders in the marketplace means more competition for a week that they know MVCI won't snap out from under them?


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## ScubaKat (Jul 26, 2013)

ROFR was the reason I was tempted.. But still didn't bid because of the price and would rather have an annual week.



dioxide45 said:


> Perhaps because people know there is no fear of losing it due to ROFR? So more bidders in the marketplace means more competition for a week that they know MVCI won't snap out from under them?


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## tschwa2 (Jul 26, 2013)

Quadmaniac said:


> Still not understanding why EOY go for as much or more than EY ???



I bought an EOY about a year and a half ago.  I think I paid just under $700 including closing cost.  I bought it as a trader to compliment a Starwood trader.  I didn't need 2 units per year, so EOY I have a good 1 br Marriott trader and then I can use the studio in flex or other times as needed.


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## Saintsfanfl (Jul 26, 2013)

I saw an annual go for $250 a little over a year ago. These are different times.

I agree that the ROFR is affecting the prices here. Since Marriott took an annual for over $2k anyone who wants a Willow Ridge Platinum needs to snag two EOY's for $1k each. It is apparant at this point that the true market value is over $1k for eoy and over $2k for annual. I don't think we have seen Marriott take an eoy, but the demand for either is now exceeding the supply.


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## sjsharkie (Jul 26, 2013)

Quadmaniac said:


> Still not understanding why EOY go for as much or more than EY ???



I think a contributing factor is because people are viewing getting usage for 1/2 a maintenance fee.

I don't wish to steer this into a what year's maintenance fees are attributed to which year's usage -- this has been argued before.  But, no matter how much people want to argue, it appears to the buyer that they are getting a break on the 1st year's usage.

That is why I think there are some EOY auctions that end up the same price as EYs.

-ryan


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## Saintsfanfl (Jul 26, 2013)

sjsharkie said:


> I think a contributing factor is because people are viewing getting usage for 1/2 a maintenance fee.
> 
> I don't wish to steer this into a what year's maintenance fees are attributed to which year's usage -- this has been argued before.  But, no matter how much people want to argue, it appears to the buyer that they are getting a break on the 1st year's usage.
> 
> ...



I disagree because this exact scenario has been listed in the past and the price was no where near $1k. Similar to an annual going for $2k is far above what it went for a year ago, and Marriott snagged it anyway. The prices have gone up with all else being equal. 

Thinking half usage is free is indeed a miscalculation, but it has nothing to do with whether the resort bills before or after the use year. That debate is actually irrelevant unless the resort requires that "year after" fee to be paid prior to usage or an exchange deposit. I have not found a resort that requires that, so the whole debate is moot.

The reason it is miscalculation on value is because if you go to sell, you are not going to get anything different (with all else being =). If you try and recoup the current off year fee as an additional charge, the purchase price will compensate and just be that much less. All these PCC's that don't want to eat that off year fee, are eating it anyway because their ending auction price reflects the adjustment. 

The all-in price is the all-in price and it has definitely gone up.


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## sjsharkie (Jul 26, 2013)

Saintsfanfl said:


> I disagree because this exact scenario has been listed in the past and the price was no where near $1k. Similar to an annual going for $2k is far above what it went for a year ago, and Marriott snagged it anyway. The prices have gone up with all else being equal.
> 
> Thinking half usage is free is indeed a miscalculation, but it has nothing to do with whether the resort bills before or after the use year. That debate is actually irrelevant unless the resort requires that "year after" fee to be paid prior to usage or an exchange deposit. I have not found a resort that requires that, so the whole debate is moot.
> 
> ...



I agree that we disagree here.

1.  A reported ROFR does not mean that $2K is now the market price.  A recent 6/10 ebay auction went for $1225 for a 2BR plat annual.  Just as we cannot rely on that one $1225 auction price as gospel, we can't rely on a reported ROFR as the market price either.
2.  The debate is not moot.  Whether or not the 2013 payment goes to 2014 usage impacts the all-in purchase price.  If buyer uses 2014 usage and defaults on 2015 payment, Marriott/HOA never gets that back.  This is why I think it is ridiculous to state that the 2015 EOY payment is attributed to 2014.  IMHO it is more likely that Marriott subsidizes the first EOY mf payment in purchase price.  In the end, it still appears to some buyers that they are receiving 1/2 usage free.
3.  I have no doubt that WR has been increasing in price over the last year (although I am still not convinced market price is $2K for an EY).  All I said was that the appearance that 2014 usage is provided for 1/2 the maintenance fee is a contributing factor in higher prices for EOY.

-ryan


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## Saintsfanfl (Jul 26, 2013)

sjsharkie said:


> I agree that we disagree here.
> 
> 1.  A reported ROFR does not mean that $2K is now the market price.  A recent 6/10 ebay auction went for $1225 for a 2BR plat annual.  Just as we cannot rely on that one $1225 auction price as gospel, we can't rely on a reported ROFR as the market price either.


 
Let's look at just the last 60 days:

4/30/13 - Platinum Annual - $787 (ROFR'd then later canceled it for whatever reason, Lucky for Quad)
5/7/13 - Platinum Annual - $1,550
5/22/13 - Gold Bi-Annual - $510
5/28/13 - Platinum Annual - $1,328
5/29/13 - Gold Annual - $202.50 (ROFR'd)
6/10/13 - Platinum Annual - $1,225
6/10/13 - Platinum Annual - $1,500 (ROFR'd)
6/19/13 - Platinum Bi-Annual - $1,115
7/11/13 - Platinum Bi-Annual - $1,100
7/15/13 - Platinum Annual - $2,000 (ROFR'd)
7/25/13 - Platinum Bi-Annual - $1,025

Ok so maybe $2k for annual is a little high but clearly $1k has been the market for bi-annual, which supports your argument that bidders are compensating for the phantom "free usage".




sjsharkie said:


> 2.  The debate is not moot.  Whether or not the 2013 payment goes to 2014 usage impacts the all-in purchase price.  If buyer uses 2014 usage and defaults on 2015 payment, Marriott/HOA never gets that back.  This is why I think it is ridiculous to state that the 2015 EOY payment is attributed to 2014.  IMHO it is more likely that Marriott subsidizes the first EOY mf payment in purchase price.  In the end, it still appears to some buyers that they are receiving 1/2 usage free.



2013 always has to be paid before using 2014 (check-in). 2015 never has to be paid before using 2014 (check-in). This is the case at every resort that I know of. I think this is the reason behind the idea that it is year before and year after, no matter how the resort began the billing. This is why I say the debate is moot because the beginning billing cycle has no real bearing going forward.

Just as the price might be a little inflated for prior year paid fees, the sales price would be deflated on a sales attempt for an eoy odd beginning in 2015. Nobody will jump off their seat on the idea of paying for 2014 without having usage for two years.

A separate issue but as far as someone using and defaulting, this is not just about eoy. With an annual it is possible to make two year's reservations in advance of paying the fees. Deposit's with II can be long gone long before the fees are ever paid.



sjsharkie said:


> 3.  I have no doubt that WR has been increasing in price over the last year (although I am still not convinced market price is $2K for an EY).  All I said was that the appearance that 2014 usage is provided for 1/2 the maintenance fee is a contributing factor in higher prices for EOY.
> 
> -ryan



I will agree with that.


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## Quadmaniac (Jul 26, 2013)

sjsharkie said:


> I agree that we disagree here.
> 
> 1.  A reported ROFR does not mean that $2K is now the market price.  A recent 6/10 ebay auction went for $1225 for a 2BR plat annual.  Just as we cannot rely on that one $1225 auction price as gospel, we can't rely on a reported ROFR as the market price either.
> 2.  The debate is not moot.  Whether or not the 2013 payment goes to 2014 usage impacts the all-in purchase price.  If buyer uses 2014 usage and defaults on 2015 payment, Marriott/HOA never gets that back.  This is why I think it is ridiculous to state that the 2015 EOY payment is attributed to 2014.  IMHO it is more likely that Marriott subsidizes the first EOY mf payment in purchase price.  In the end, it still appears to some buyers that they are receiving 1/2 usage free.
> ...



I agree as I don't think this is necessarily the market value. As quoted earlier I did pick up that annual for $787 all in earlier this year and I also picked up this EOY with 2013 usage for $610 all in June 19 (net cost $143 taking away 2013 MF $467) for my brother. 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/111095696522?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649

I still think that there are good deals to be had if people don't go crazy on it as another will come along. I am just not seeing why bidders are so determined to win it at all costs driving it up so much on specific auctions ? It's not that there aren't deals to be had still, so why go nuts ? I know $1000 is not that much money in the big picture, but I don't think ROFR means much as it seems to be a coin toss. I wouldn't increase my bid in an effort to "pass".


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## sjsharkie (Jul 26, 2013)

Timing is everything with eBay. If you have 2 plats listed ending around the same time, you typically see lower final bids on one or the other. 

Some people just have to have it right now. And if you have two interested parties going at it, higher prices prevail. Prices are going higher, but I don't think they are as high as this auction indicates. 

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk 4 Beta


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## falmouth3 (Jul 26, 2013)

It used to be my observation that the EOY sold for way less than half of annual.  This is in general, not specifically for this resort.


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## Chrispee (Jul 26, 2013)

I would hazard a guess that this forum has played a role in the increase in value for ebay auctions of Willow Ridge.  When you look at it as strictly a platinum trader, even at $1k (EOY) and $2k (annual) it's still a relative bargain compared to other comparable Marriott traders.


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## Saintsfanfl (Jul 26, 2013)

Chrispee said:


> I would hazard a guess that this forum has played a role in the increase in value for ebay auctions of Willow Ridge.  When you look at it as strictly a platinum trader, even at $1k (EOY) and $2k (annual) it's still a relative bargain compared to other comparable Marriott traders.



This is true. The low maintence fee combined with Marriott preference is what is driving the demand. And then Marriott taking the annuals has propped up the EOYs.


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## Chrispee (Jul 26, 2013)

So, here's a question: Do you think that Willow Ridge prices will continue to go up further, or have we hit the ceiling for now?


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## Tjburge (Jul 28, 2013)

So not to muddy the waters here but based on a previous post I called resale ops at MVCI to see what they would offer for my EY Platinum Willow Ridge and they offered $xxxxless $xxx costs on the spot. Since I bot resale for considerably less not too long ago I told them to send the contracts. I am now locked in with closing in November. This must be some barometer on value otherwise they would just sit around and snag them on ROFR?!?


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## Saintsfanfl (Jul 28, 2013)

Tjburge said:


> So not to muddy the waters here but based on a previous post I called resale ops at MVCI to see what they would offer for my EY Platinum Willow Ridge and they offered $xxxx less $xxx costs on the spot. Since I bot resale for considerably less not too long ago I told them to send the contracts. I am now locked in with closing in November. This must be some barometer on value otherwise they would just sit around and snag them on ROFR?!?



Something is at play here and it can't just be the trust. That price is way too high per point, much higher than they are getting elsewhere. Is DC demand that high in Branson that they need the inventory? I hate to be a conspiracy theorist but doesn't it look like Marriott is gaining inventory at Willow Ridge for another purpose? It isn't adding up with that offer imo.


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## sjsharkie (Jul 28, 2013)

Tjburge said:


> So not to muddy the waters here but based on a previous post I called resale ops at MVCI to see what they would offer for my EY Platinum Willow Ridge and they offered $xxxx less $xxx costs on the spot. Since I bot resale for considerably less not too long ago I told them to send the contracts. I am now locked in with closing in November. This must be some barometer on value otherwise they would just sit around and snag them on ROFR?!?



Sorry, I don't believe this post for a second.  I think this is a shill trying to drive up prices. (Note: total posts = 1)

There is no way Marriott is offering $3600 net for a platinum Willow Ridge.  They could exercise ROFRs all day to get what they need for inventory.

This story is not believeable at all.  If I see some other reputable posters verifying this story, then I'll believe it -- wait, no I won't; it's Branson and IMHO it is overbuilt.

-ryan


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## Saintsfanfl (Jul 29, 2013)

If the poster returns, what was the deeded week?

I have mentioned it before, even at the prices they have been exercising, the activity is suspect. I doubt the collective DC members want to be paying maintenance fees in Branson. Marriott is even after Gold weeks.


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## Tjburge (Jul 29, 2013)

I TOTALLY understand the skepticism.


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## Tjburge (Jul 29, 2013)

It was a platinum week 30.


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## Saintsfanfl (Jul 29, 2013)

That is week 30. There has been speculation on whether Marriott values the actual deeded week. Willow Ridge is one of those resorts where the "season" is really messed up. Platinum contains some weeks that have no business even being gold, much less platinum. Week 30 is a very good week especially compared to some of the other "platinum" weeks. I still don't think we know if they are valuing the deeded week though.

Back to the price / points ratio. Let's compare both the allotment and then the actual deeded week point cost to my Ocean Pointe silver week's I sold them.

*Allotment*:
Ocean Pointe Silver OS - $2,600
Point Allotment - 3,050
Price per Point - *$.85*

Willow Ridge Platinum - $4,100
Point Allotment - 1,850
Price per Point - *$2.22*



*Actual week:*
Ocean Pointe Silver OS - $2,600
DC Point Chart week 20 or 41 - 2,950
Price per Point - *$.88*

Willow Ridge Platinum - $4,100
DC Point Chart week 30 - 2,400
Price per Point - *$1.71*

To me it doesn't add up no matter how you slice it unless there is another motive or their offer prices have increased on everything. I am going to check today and see what the offer is on some of my remaining weeks.


*EDIT*: There are a few platinum weeks at Willow Ridge that cost a mere 900 points for the entire week. I think it would be conclusive on whether Marriott is valuing the deeded week if they offered the same price for these weeks.


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## Saintsfanfl (Jul 29, 2013)

Tjburge said:


> I TOTALLY understand the skepticism.



I don't think you are in any danger of them retracting the offer. Everyone here shares their buyback prices and Dioxide keeps them in a database. It is just standard language.


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## Tjburge (Jul 29, 2013)

Thanks.  I have been a TUG stalker for years and have found the information on here invaluable. Thus why I JUMPED on the offer. Got out from under the liability and can get what I need on redweek. Now if I had a great location/very steong trader I may have thought twice. Would not trade my ownership time with Marriott...had some great vacations for a great price. However I am glad I did not pay developer price. (I was VERY close until I discovered TUG)


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## SueDonJ (Jul 29, 2013)

Welcome to TUG, Tjburge, and thanks for posting.  The things Marriott does don't always make sense to us but we love dissecting and analyzing every little tidbit.  

As Saintsfanfl said, many have posted the details of various Marriott emails without repercussions due to their standard disclaimer but it's completely up to you whether you're comfortable with doing it or not.


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## sjsharkie (Jul 29, 2013)

Tjburge said:


> So not to muddy the waters here but based on a previous post I called resale ops at MVCI to see what they would offer for my EY Platinum Willow Ridge and they offered $xxxxless $xxx costs on the spot. Since I bot resale for considerably less not too long ago I told them to send the contracts. I am now locked in with closing in November. This must be some barometer on value otherwise they would just sit around and snag them on ROFR?!?



I still say something is not accurate.

1.  This makes no economical sense for Marriott to buy this week as there are weeks begging for offers on other sites at or below $2k for the same plat season.
2.  Per Saintsfan's post, this does not make sense for the trust.  I agree with his logic and won't go through it again.
3.  I could believe that Marriott had an owner that had a fixed week and unit, and wanted that exact consecutive fixed week and unit, and was willing to pay a premium for it (even that seems farfetched at Branson, but let's go with it for a second).  However, this does not sync with the OP's story of contacting Marriott resale and getting an instant offer.

Sorry, not biting here.  Something about this story is fishy.  $3600 net takeaway is bs; that is too far above market.

-ryan


----------



## Saintsfanfl (Jul 29, 2013)

Tjburge, where are you from if you don't mind my asking?


----------



## Saintsfanfl (Jul 29, 2013)

sjsharkie said:


> I still say something is not accurate.
> 
> 1.  This makes no economical sense for Marriott to buy this week as there are weeks begging for offers on other sites at or below $2k for the same plat season.
> 2.  Per Saintsfan's post, this does not make sense for the trust.  I agree with his logic and won't go through it again.
> ...



It is 100% accurate. I just spoke to the resale department. They are buying back Willow Ridge Platinum for $4,100 - $500. I also believe prices on other properties went up as well, but I do not know this for sure.

I also confirmed that the deeded week is not a factor in the offer price.

They offered me $3,800 - $500 for Ocean Point Silver OF. Not selling, but added it to the database.


----------



## dualrated2 (Jul 29, 2013)

*Better trader than Ko Olina*

While I can certainly appreciate the prospects of a better resale value for my Willow Ridge weeks, It concerns me that the Studio trading power of Willow Ridge is better than my Ko Olina week. 

I should mention that this is looking at trading back into Ko Olina with my Willow Ridge and with my Ko Olina studios.

_[Exchange inventory details deleted.]_


----------



## Saintsfanfl (Jul 29, 2013)

This is making those recent resale prices look very low. If Marriott is paying $3,600 hundred cash, it is definitely worth at least $2k. It would be worth more but they may not be paying by the time you can resell, plus they are more on the ball with the ROFR than they were in the beginning.


----------



## ScubaKat (Jul 29, 2013)

Were you searching for availability for MKO?  I was curious so I searched with my Harbor Lake studio.. 


_[Exchange inventory details deleted.]_



dualrated2 said:


> While I can certainly appreciate the prospects of a better resale value for my Willow Ridge weeks, It concerns me that the Studio trading power of Willow Ridge is better than my Ko Olina week.
> 
> I should mention that this is looking at trading back into Ko Olina with my Willow Ridge and with my Ko Olina studios.
> 
> _[Exchange inventory details deleted.]_


----------



## SueDonJ (Jul 29, 2013)

_Moderator Note:  While I can appreciate the relevance in this thread's context, a reminder that available exchange inventory is restricted to the TUG Sightings (members-only) forum.  Hope you understand the reason for the edits.  _


----------



## dualrated2 (Jul 29, 2013)

ScubaKat said:


> Were you searching for availability for MKO?  I was curious so I searched with my Harbor Lake studio..
> 
> 
> _[Exchange inventory details deleted.]_



Yes, I was searching for MKO and it appears that your search with your Harbor Lake studio was better yet. 

MKO studios just don't have the trading power that they did before. A Willow Ridge studio having better trading power than a Ko Olina studio just baffles me.


----------



## Saintsfanfl (Jul 29, 2013)

I see the same as your Ko Olina with an Ocean Pointe July studio, I see 3 additional with a Grande Vista July Studio. I am not surprised Grande Vista beats Ocean Pointe for July, but Ocean Pointe is usually on top the rest of the year.

I agree the Willow Ridge and Ko Olina comparison makes no sense whatsoever. That is II's collective mind hard at work.


----------



## ScubaKat (Jul 29, 2013)

Thanks!  I have no idea the algorithms II uses.  Will have to do a couple more trade tests now.. have been following this thread since I was looking to pick up another cheap trader but with the prices Marriott is using ROFR and ebay I may just pick up another Harbour Lake unit.  MF is only about $50 more compared to WR and it has been great for exchanges!



dualrated2 said:


> Yes, I was searching for MKO and it appears that your search with your Harbor Lake studio was better yet.
> 
> MKO studios just don't have the trading power that they did before. A Willow Ridge studio having better trading power than a Ko Olina studio just baffles me.


----------



## ScubaKat (Jul 29, 2013)

Oops.. sorry about that! 



SueDonJ said:


> _Moderator Note:  While I can appreciate the relevance in this thread's context, a reminder that available exchange inventory is restricted to the TUG Sightings (members-only) forum.  Hope you understand the reason for the edits.  _


----------



## SueDonJ (Jul 29, 2013)

ScubaKat said:


> Oops.. sorry about that!



No worries.  I just wanted to make sure you understood why your post was edited.


----------



## sjsharkie (Jul 29, 2013)

Saintsfanfl said:


> It is 100% accurate. I just spoke to the resale department. They are buying back Willow Ridge Platinum for $4,100 - $500. I also believe prices on other properties went up as well, but I do not know this for sure.



I believe you did call and obtain that information.  However, that does not constitute a completed sale.

I'll believe it when I see someone push through a completed transaction.  I guess I retract my earlier statement -- evidently Marriott is trying to artificially drive up the price.  That is the only conclusion I can gravitate to if they are paying $3600 for a WR Plat (from your statement, I assume it was any Plat week, not a specific deeded week)

I know Quad's got a few weeks -- maybe time to unload?  They'll probably get all they can handle for $3600 net.

-ryan


----------



## Tjburge (Jul 29, 2013)

Saintsfanfl -about 5 hours from MHB in Illinois. Thanks for helping validate the information. Like I said earlier, I totally understand the skepticism as it does NOT make good sense. While I am a new poster, I can say that because of my daily readings of this BB over the last 6 years I am highly educated in the TS business. Thanks for helping...even though sharkie won't buy it and eat his crow. Learned a LONG time ago that even though I may be educated I do not know it all and there is always a surprise around the corner. 

Let me pitch this out (speculation of course). MHB was supposed to build more buildings...lets just say inventory is running low on the existing units and you can acquire then for, say, something like 20% of what they sell them (or points) for ...would that make sense?!? Kinda like what every investor likes to do----buy low and sell high.  Like what I did 

Glad I found TUG when I did....took the tour on a whim, just about got sucked in, but was able to get a 90% discount on EBay.  Thanks TUGGERS


----------



## Saintsfanfl (Jul 29, 2013)

Tjburge said:


> Saintsfanfl -about 5 hours from MHB in Illinois. Thanks for helping validate the information. Like I said earlier, I totally understand the skepticism as it does NOT make good sense. While I am a new poster, I can say that because of my daily readings of this BB over the last 6 years I am highly educated in the TS business. Thanks for helping...even though sharkie won't buy it and eat his crow. Learned a LONG time ago that even though I may be educated I do not know it all and there is always a surprise around the corner.
> 
> Let me pitch this out (speculation of course). MHB was supposed to build more buildings...lets just say inventory is running low on the existing units and you can acquire then for, say, something like 20% of what they sell them (or points) for ...would that make sense?!? Kinda like what every investor likes to do----buy low and sell high.  Like what I did
> 
> Glad I found TUG when I did....took the tour on a whim, just about got sucked in, but was able to get a 90% discount on EBay.  Thanks TUGGERS



I had looked for you to see if you looked legit and I found the right guy  I figured you werent too far from MHB and there wasn't too much else. It's a hobby. 

Buying because inventory is low makes sense but it is the price that is out of whack. When Marriott sells points the underlying deeded weeks do not mean anything. That particular week does not convert to enough points to justify the price being offered. Do they need the inventory for DC reservations? Possibly. But they are paying more than double the market. They are saying they are desperate for Willow Ridge specifically. Desperate enough that they can't wait for the ROFR's. It's a difficult scenario to accept. 

The price really is $4,100 imo. The legal will show the gross. When they ROFR they do the same thing internally and pull money out for closing.

They said the deeded week is not a factor, so July 4 or mid Dec is the same offer price.


----------



## sjsharkie (Jul 29, 2013)

Tjburge said:


> Thanks for helping...even though sharkie won't buy it and eat his crow.



I will gladly eat crow if the transaction goes through -- Great deal for you.

I'm just wondering how many of these transactions will go through before they have their fill.  There was a $2K 2/2 platinum that was on myresortnetwork last night that was asking for offers.  If that's the going price, then someone should snap that up.

-ryan


----------



## Tjburge (Jul 29, 2013)

My buy low/sell high thought was based in the premise that Marriott resale was selling weeks still. (Bought back). Thought I read that somewhere. If not, then it absolutely makes no sense at those prices for DC points. There has to be something else happening. Also , for those of you trying to figure the magic formula, they knew 2014 was already booked and traded and it did not effect their offer. That makes it even more complicated!

Sharkie- if Marriott starts backing out of legal obligations on paper then there is a problem bigger than than figuring values on this weak resort.


----------



## sjsharkie (Jul 29, 2013)

Tjburge said:


> Sharkie- if Marriott starts backing out of legal obligations on paper then there is a problem bigger than than figuring values on this weak resort.



Didn't say they would back out.  But a lot can happen between now and closing.

Aside from that, it is apparent that you are not a shill, and for that I apologize.  I reread my postings on this thread and they do come across a bit harsh.

...and to think that I was challenging saintsfan's $2K estimate a few days before that.


----------



## Quadmaniac (Jul 29, 2013)

sjsharkie said:


> I know Quad's got a few weeks -- maybe time to unload?  They'll probably get all they can handle for $3600 net.
> 
> -ryan



Nah, as people are seeing WR studios trade really well. I was surprised from early on when I posted that WR pulled more than SR. For me, I'm keeping mine to trade into Ko Olina and Maui  Probably won't buy anymore as I have enough but I still don't understand why Marriott would not just ROFR for way less vs paying $3600, that's just retarded....


----------



## dioxide45 (Jul 29, 2013)

Saintsfanfl said:


> It is 100% accurate. I just spoke to the resale department. They are buying back Willow Ridge Platinum for $4,100 - $500. I also believe prices on other properties went up as well, but I do not know this for sure.
> 
> I also confirmed that the deeded week is not a factor in the offer price.
> 
> They offered me $3,800 - $500 for Ocean Point Silver OF. Not selling, but added it to the database.



Maybe they are buying up units to get enough voting power to sell management rights to Disney Vacation Club?


----------



## Saintsfanfl (Jul 29, 2013)

Tjburge said:


> My buy low/sell high thought was based in the premise that Marriott resale was selling weeks still. (Bought back). Thought I read that somewhere. If not, then it absolutely makes no sense at those prices for DC points. There has to be something else happening. Also , for those of you trying to figure the magic formula, they knew 2014 was already booked and traded and it did not effect their offer. That makes it even more complicated!
> 
> Sharkie- if Marriott starts backing out of legal obligations on paper then there is a problem bigger than than figuring values on this weak resort.



Marriott does not actually sell any weeks. The resale department acts as the broker between the seller and the buyer and they take a 40% commission. These are sellers who are on a waiting list to sell at a higher price compared to the buyback offer. 

The buybacks are for the trust, where Marriott makes far more money. For example an Ocean Pointe Silver OS they bought back from me for $2,600 was converted to 3,050 points that they sold for around $34,000.

For whatever reason the resale department does not list any Willow Ridge weeks.


----------



## SueDonJ (Jul 29, 2013)

dioxide45 said:


> Maybe they are buying up units to get enough voting power to sell management rights to Disney Vacation Club?



HAHAHA!!!  One of the best April Fool's posts!


----------



## sjsharkie (Jul 30, 2013)

Saintsfanfl said:


> The buybacks are for the trust, where Marriott makes far more money. For example an Ocean Pointe Silver OS they bought back from me for $2,600 was converted to 3,050 points that they sold for around $34,000.



What are the checks and balances in the trust?  This is what I don't understand.  Doesn't Marriott benefit from dumping lower mf properties into the trust -- say 100 Branson Plat Weeks to 1 Hawaii Plat week (this is an exaggeration, I know).  It seems if a point is a point, they can throw whatever mix that they want in there -- balancing that out with ensuring the bare minimum supply of high demand weeks to keep trust members placated.

I still don't get it.  Then again Branson trades well in II, yet I seem to be able to pick any week I want if I wanted to go there.  Go figure.

-ryan


----------



## Saintsfanfl (Jul 30, 2013)

sjsharkie said:


> What are the checks and balances in the trust?  This is what I don't understand.  Doesn't Marriott benefit from dumping lower mf properties into the trust -- say 100 Branson Plat Weeks to 1 Hawaii Plat week (this is an exaggeration, I know).  It seems if a point is a point, they can throw whatever mix that they want in there -- balancing that out with ensuring the bare minimum supply of high demand weeks to keep trust members placated.
> 
> I still don't get it.  Then again Branson trades well in II, yet I seem to be able to pick any week I want if I wanted to go there.  Go figure.
> 
> -ryan



For pure trust point sales purposes the maintenance is not low. It is extremely high. If they are using them as trust exchangers, then you may have a point. But this would benefit the trust as a whole since they would be doing just like us and exchanging a low fee week for a higher fee week but for the purposes of a DC reservation. If they are doing this, it is a healthy action for the trust. On the flip side it will have a poor effect on Marriott inventory in II as they will be sucking up prime inventory using Willow Ridge. This might just make sense of their actions on Willow Ridge buybacks and ROFR's.


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## sjsharkie (Jul 30, 2013)

Saintsfanfl said:


> For pure trust point sales purposes the maintenance is not low. It is extremely high. If they are using them as trust exchangers, then you may have a point. But this would benefit the trust as a whole since they would be doing just like us and exchanging a low fee week for a higher fee week but for the purposes of a DC reservation. If they are doing this, it is a healthy action for the trust. On the flip side it will have a poor effect on Marriott inventory in II as they will be sucking up prime inventory using Willow Ridge. This might just make sense of their actions on Willow Ridge buybacks and ROFR's.



My main concern as a DC point owner (I am not one) is that they would be using them as trust exchangers.  While it benefits Marriott as owners of the trust, I'm not sure it benefits DC point owners.  When selling DC points, you are buying into a program that promises being able to vacation anywhere -- that does someone no good if there are a ton of Branson weeks available but slim pickings for Hawaii.

Look at the situation in II -- there isn't a ton of Hawaii in there all of the time, but I do often see Branson weeks available.  Obviously DC needs to ensure that some weeks are available for the trust, but I suspect they are paying above market so they can load up exchange availability at a lower cost.  This in turn increases the supply of points they can sell to the public.

Just my 2 cents.

-ryan


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## Saintsfanfl (Jul 30, 2013)

sjsharkie said:


> My main concern as a DC point owner (I am not one) is that they would be using them as trust exchangers.  While it benefits Marriott as owners of the trust, I'm not sure it benefits DC point owners.  When selling DC points, you are buying into a program that promises being able to vacation anywhere -- that does someone no good if there are a ton of Branson weeks available but slim pickings for Hawaii.
> 
> Look at the situation in II -- there isn't a ton of Hawaii in there all of the time, but I do often see Branson weeks available.  Obviously DC needs to ensure that some weeks are available for the trust, but I suspect they are paying above market so they can load up exchange availability at a lower cost.  This in turn increases the supply of points they can sell to the public.
> 
> ...



Maybe we are talking about two different types of exchanges. You seem to be looking at it like Marriott would not be exchanging the MHB's. Marriott would be dumping the MHB's into II and taking the good weeks for the trust. Right now you can exchange a 1BR MHB for a 2BR fall week MKO. I haven't seen Marriott lock off before, so let's assume they can only exchange the full 2BR since they haven't heard about locking off. So they can exchange a 2BR MHB that only costs the trust less than $1k for a 2BR MKO that would have cost $1,700. Assuming this is what they are doing, how does the trust not win in this scenario? The trust just saved $700 and that is just for one year.

They may just be getting as much point inventory as possible. They seem to be after everything right now.


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## dioxide45 (Jul 30, 2013)

Saintsfanfl said:


> For pure trust point sales purposes the maintenance is not low.



I would agree, the MFs on a platinum 2BR WR is about $0.45 per point based on legacy conversion rates. So putting those weeks in the trust really won't help trust MFs. Surprisingly the Hawaiian weeks, especially OF and OV units, have a low MF per point ratio. So MVCI would be better to be buying those up to place in the trust.

My guess is and as reported in the buyback thread is that MVCI has upped the buyback prices fairly recently. Not sure why, are they getting low on inventory or stocking up on inventory in anticipation that they will soon be running low? If that is the case, I think they have to start growing organically again with new resorts or completing existing open projects, like they are doing at Grand Chateau. I don't think they can rely on ROFR and buybacks to fulfill their inventory needs long term.


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## 1965 (Jul 31, 2013)

why would a Marriott willow ridge  2 bedroom
annual platinimum first year 2014
only bring $1375 with no closing costs on ebay a few moments ago?


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## 1965 (Jul 31, 2013)

why would someone pay $1100 for every other year
when you can get an every year for only $1375


----------



## scootr5 (Jul 31, 2013)

1965 said:


> why would someone pay $1100 for every other year
> when you can get an every year for only $1375



Maybe they only want an EOY? I have an EOY odd Sheraton, and I've thought about getting an EOY even Marriott to have preference for both, but not be overloaded with units that I can't use.


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## Saintsfanfl (Jul 31, 2013)

1965 said:


> why would someone pay $1100 for every other year
> when you can get an every year for only $1375



While I may not completely agree with the logic, Marriott hasn't been taking eoy's, and that $1,375 that just closed will not pass. People in the know don't feel like paying that much cash to a PCC only to wait and hope for a refund. Some figure, "why bid?"  

It only reached $1,375 because I bid $1,350.


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## dioxide45 (Jul 31, 2013)

WR annual platinums have been failing at prices higher than this lately. So if the ROFR is actually submitted based on the final auction price, I would expect it to fail.


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## Quadmaniac (Jul 31, 2013)

I wouldn't count it out until it happens, mine passed so anything can happen


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## Saintsfanfl (Jul 31, 2013)

Quadmaniac said:


> I wouldn't count it out until it happens, mine passed so anything can happen



Yeah but you had a clause in your contract where ownership reverts back to the seller at 3 years or something. That 180 degree "we changed our mind" wasn't normal.

Nice 1,000 post.


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## ScubaKat (Jul 31, 2013)

Quadmaniac said:


> I wouldn't count it out until it happens, mine passed so anything can happen



I will keep you guys posted.. . Figured it wouldn't hurt for another try after Marriott took my $2k week from Redweek.


----------



## Saintsfanfl (Jul 31, 2013)

ScubaKat said:


> I will keep you guys posted.. . Figured it wouldn't hurt for another try after Marriott took my $2k week from Redweek.



It definitely doesn't hurt. If I wasn't cash poor and stuck with 12 weeks I would have bid $2,500 in light of the recent buyback offer. Good luck on it.


----------



## Quadmaniac (Aug 1, 2013)

Saintsfanfl said:


> Yeah but you had a clause in your contract where ownership reverts back to the seller at 3 years or something. That 180 degree "we changed our mind" wasn't normal.
> 
> Nice 1,000 post.



Reverts back to seller in 3 yrs ??? I don't remember that clause ?? Yeah that 180 degrees was weird - not sure if they did that because the closing company registered it in my name BEFORE getting ROFR approved and ticked them off. The closing company had me sign it back over to them and then a couple weeks later asks if I still want it as Marriott changed their mind and sent the closing company a stern warning to not do that again before getting the ok. I just about seems like they are rolling the dice or may it just depends who is processing the ROFR explaining the randomness ???

1000th post ? Oh thanks, I didn't even notice lol.


----------



## Quadmaniac (Aug 1, 2013)

ScubaKat said:


> I will keep you guys posted.. . Figured it wouldn't hurt for another try after Marriott took my $2k week from Redweek.



Congrats! I hope it goes through for you - keeping my fingers crossed!


----------



## Chrispee (Aug 1, 2013)

another EOY just went for the equivalent of $1367 on ebay.


----------



## Saintsfanfl (Aug 1, 2013)

Chrispee said:


> another EOY just went for the equivalent of $1367 on ebay.



The word on the street is that eoy's are better than annual because the maintenance fees are 50% off :rofl:


----------



## krj9999 (Aug 3, 2013)

I paid equivalent of ~$1050 for my EOY even last fall.  So prices are holding steady to trending higher, which is good.

Although I haven't made an exchange with my deposits yet, I'm pretty happy with my purchase and what I can see with Marriott priority.



Chrispee said:


> another EOY just went for the equivalent of $1367 on ebay.


----------



## ScubaKat (Aug 27, 2013)

The $1375 annual at Willow Ridge failed ROFR.  Got a refund the day before I was notified.  Expected it to fail... oh well.  Added it to the database.


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## Saintsfanfl (Aug 27, 2013)

ScubaKat said:


> The $1375 annual at Willow Ridge failed ROFR.  Got a refund the day before I was notified.  Expected it to fail... oh well.  Added it to the database.



That stinks but at least the refund came quickly. I just bought a Gold EOY for $219 net. Not sure if it passed yet. The annual I tried to buy for $202.50 failed so hopefully this one goes through. I just need a Marriott preference trader so I am not even messing with the ridiculous rise in WR Plat prices.


----------



## Saintsfanfl (Sep 17, 2013)

Saintsfanfl said:


> That stinks but at least the refund came quickly. I just bought a *Gold EOY for $219 net*. Not sure if it passed yet. The annual I tried to buy for $202.50 failed so hopefully this one goes through. I just need a Marriott preference trader so I am not even messing with the ridiculous rise in WR Plat prices.



The Gold EOY I bought for $99 ($219 net) passed ROFR.


----------



## GregT (Sep 17, 2013)

Saintsfanfl said:


> The Gold EOY I bought for $99 ($219 net) passed ROFR.



Congrats!  $219 all-in for a Gold Trader looks good....


----------



## Saintsfanfl (Sep 17, 2013)

GregT said:


> Congrats!  $219 all-in for a Gold Trader looks good....



Thanks! It's EOY but that's ok. I will take two of them if need be. The price isn't all that important within reason by I hate to pay more than I have to. I have been renting out my Marriott's so I needed something with preference.


----------



## Tjburge (Oct 25, 2013)

sjsharkie said:


> Sorry, I don't believe this post for a second.  I think this is a shill trying to drive up prices. (Note: total posts = 1)
> 
> There is no way Marriott is offering $3600 net for a platinum Willow Ridge.  They could exercise ROFRs all day to get what they need for inventory.
> 
> ...



Just an update.  Received my docs on the promised timeline. Returned them same day and just received my funds. 90 days end to end, faster than they promised. Glad I jumped on it as my maintenance fees went up 35% over 5 years. Off to redweek I go....


----------



## Saintsfanfl (Feb 26, 2014)

A Platinum EOY for $999 with free 2014 usage just passed for me. A Platinum Annual for $1,496.25 with free 2014 failed. Both are through the same seller. Rather than taking a refund now I switched the failed with a Platinum Annual for the same price but usage begins in 2015 rather than free 2014. It will probably fail as well but it is an easy attempt.

Both have been added to the database.


----------



## Quadmaniac (Feb 26, 2014)

Saintsfanfl said:


> A Platinum EOY for $999 with free 2014 usage just passed for me. A Platinum Annual for $1,496.25 with free 2014 failed. Both are through the same seller. Rather than taking a refund now I switched the failed with a Platinum Annual for the same price but usage begins in 2015 rather than free 2014. It will probably fail as well but it is an easy attempt.
> 
> Both have been added to the database.



You're going to be the WR king soon lol


----------



## Saintsfanfl (Feb 26, 2014)

Quadmaniac said:


> You're going to be the WR king soon lol



I think that title belongs to you! Most of mine have failed. I only own a Gold EOY but this Platinum EOY will be added soon. With the free usage I consider it close to free. I doubt the annual passes and if not I will continue to try.

I won't mess with CJ anymore. I had an annual fail several months ago and I got suspicious that they didn't actually submit it. The phone conversation was very much like a sales attempt in them trying to work with me on a higher amount that can pass. They made two attempts at this "sales" tactic. I just had a feeling in my gut that they never submitted it for ROFR.


----------



## tschwa2 (Feb 26, 2014)

Saintsfanfl said:


> A Platinum EOY for $999 with free 2014 usage just passed for me. A Platinum Annual for $1,496.25 with free 2014 failed. Both are through the same seller. Rather than taking a refund now I switched the failed with a Platinum Annual for the same price but usage begins in 2015 rather than free 2014. It will probably fail as well but it is an easy attempt.
> 
> Both have been added to the database.



When you say free 2014 usage for the EOY do you mean you don't pay MF's again until 2016  or 2015?


----------



## Saintsfanfl (Feb 26, 2014)

tschwa2 said:


> When you say free 2014 usage for the EOY do you mean you don't pay MF's again until 2016  or 2015?



EOY Even with usage beginning in 2014, next fee due 2015. I know the whole debate on which usage year the 2015 fee belongs. I have been part of the debate in some of those threads. 

I usually consider it half free because upon reselling very few people want to eat the off year without discounting the purchase price.


----------



## Quadmaniac (Feb 26, 2014)

Saintsfanfl said:


> I think that title belongs to you! Most of mine have failed. I only own a Gold EOY but this Platinum EOY will be added soon. With the free usage I consider it close to free. I doubt the annual passes and if not I will continue to try.
> 
> I won't mess with CJ anymore. I had an annual fail several months ago and I got suspicious that they didn't actually submit it. The phone conversation was very much like a sales attempt in them trying to work with me on a higher amount that can pass. They made two attempts at this "sales" tactic. I just had a feeling in my gut that they never submitted it for ROFR.



You only have equivalent to 1 annual now ?? I thought you had a few for some reason.

Yeah if you keep getting this from CJ then you are being played for sure. Doesn't make sense that you would run into it that much. My experience has been so random but all of them have gone through. I would say buy from someone else or if I snag one, it's yours. How's that for helping you to the top ? lol


----------



## Saintsfanfl (Feb 26, 2014)

Quadmaniac said:


> You only have equivalent to 1 annual now ?? I thought you had a few for some reason.
> 
> Yeah if you keep getting this from CJ then you are being played for sure. Doesn't make sense that you would run into it that much. My experience has been so random but all of them have gone through. I would say buy from someone else or if I snag one, it's yours. How's that for helping you to the top ? lol



If you get some at the prices some of yours have passed I will take them! 

So far I have had 6 attempts:

Gold Annual $202.50 Fail
Gold EOY $99 Pass
Platinum Annual $2,138 Fail
Platinum EOY $999 (free usage) Pass
Platinum Annual $1,496.50 (free usage) Fail

Platinum Annual $1,496.50 - Pending


I had previously thought that I had a Platinum EOY fail as well but I don't see it in the database.


----------



## Quadmaniac (Feb 26, 2014)

Saintsfanfl said:


> If you get some at the prices some of yours have passed I will take them!
> 
> So far I have had 6 attempts:
> 
> ...



Which ones were from CJ's ??


----------



## Saintsfanfl (Feb 26, 2014)

Quadmaniac said:


> Which ones were from CJ's ??



Just the $2,138. When I mentioned their two attempts I meant they tried twice to sell me on another unit for a higher price that would pass ROFR. After I said no and chose the refund they tried again 2 days later instead of initiating the refund. What smelled funny is the pitch seemed rehearsed and part of it was they have a team that knows the right price. If this is true why would they go through the trouble with a price they know won't pass?

I had other similar issues with them a year ago where they ended a couple auctions early but then they suddenly had other units for much higher prices than my high bid. I would still go with them for the right price because I know my money would be good but it's unlikely that my right price will ever meet their real prices. I consider them a discount broker rather than a typical PCC but caveat emptor on their bait and switch tactics.


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## sjsharkie (Mar 12, 2014)

I had a Willow Ridge Plat EOY odd pass ROFR.  Price was $520 with first use in 2015.

I'll add to database.

-ryan


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## GregT (Mar 12, 2014)

sjsharkie said:


> I had a Willow Ridge Plat EOY odd pass ROFR.  Price was $520 with first use in 2015.
> 
> I'll add to database.
> 
> -ryan



Congrats on slipping one past the goalie.  That's a great price -- I really like my Willow.   It doesn't trade as well as the Aruba Studio, but I'm not sure anything does.  

Best,

Greg


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## sjsharkie (Mar 12, 2014)

GregT said:


> Congrats on slipping one past the goalie.  That's a great price -- I really like my Willow.   It doesn't trade as well as the Aruba Studio, but I'm not sure anything does.
> 
> Best,
> 
> Greg



Thanks, Greg.  He shoots he scores!

I think in-line with what saintsfan purchased for given he got free usage in 2014 (and I get 1/2 free usage in 2015), but for sure I am happy that it passed.

I'm convinced Marriott is not interested in WR EOYs unless they by chance own the other corresponding EOY in their trust.  For me, I'd rather pick off EOYs than try to get an annual past the ROFR goalie.  It's not like Starwood where they tack on an extra $20 for the EOY mfs.

-ryan


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## dioxide45 (Mar 12, 2014)

GregT said:


> Congrats on slipping one past the goalie.  That's a great price -- I really like my Willow.   It doesn't trade as well as the Aruba Studio, but I'm not sure anything does.
> 
> Best,
> 
> Greg



Past the goalie? More like a shot right on the button in the house. Some terminology from another sport that Canadians are passionate about, can you name it?


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## sjsharkie (Mar 12, 2014)

dioxide45 said:


> Past the goalie? More like a shot right on the button in the house. Some terminology from another sport that Canadians are passionate about, can you name it?



Curling.  I have the hammer.

-ryan


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## dioxide45 (Mar 12, 2014)

sjsharkie said:


> Curling.  I have the hammer.
> 
> -ryan



I think though, the person that traded in to the 2BR Aruba with a studio scored an eight ender.


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## sjsharkie (Mar 12, 2014)

dioxide45 said:


> I think though, the person that traded in to the 2BR Aruba with a 1BR studio scored an eight ender.



True that -- that was definitely a quad take out type move.

-ryan


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## GregT (Mar 12, 2014)

I need Puck to help me with obscure sports terminology, except I believe he is still in the penalty box due to the NYC thread.


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## SueDonJ (Mar 12, 2014)

That's the only self-imposed penalty I've ever seen a hockey player take.


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## puckmanfl (Mar 13, 2014)

good evening...

Puck is alive and well in Dallas... for the ACEP Teaching Fellowship... still stunned over the Rich Peverly situation.  For those not following, A Player for the Dallas Stars had a witnessed Vfib arrest during a game.  He was quickly and professionally resuscitated by a skilled team of medics and Stars team physician!!!  Well done... They stated he gets a procedure tomorrow...probably an implantable defibrillator... One of the true miracles of modern medicine.  With this gizmo he should live  a normal life span...

I implore all TUGGERS to make sure their local rink, gym etc has an AED  they cost about $800 and are life savers...Way back when when the oldest drain was playing Prep hockey in Groton , Mass..I made sure they had an AED at the rink...  my donation to the school...

p.s  2 bedroom aruba presidents week for studio is the all time winner... winner winner chicken dinner... it's like drawing a straight flush


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## Saintsfanfl (Mar 20, 2014)

I just had a Platinum annual fail that was submitted for about $2,500. I don't see any Willow Ridge EOY's that have failed in the database. I got one for 999.00 with free 2014 usage which is about equal to sjsharkie's $520. I know Marriott has made some offers on EOY at some resorts but it sure looks like they do not want an EOY at Willow Ridge. EOY appears to be the way to go for trading purposes.


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## Quadmaniac (Mar 20, 2014)

Saintsfanfl said:


> I just had a Platinum annual fail that was submitted for about $2,500. I don't see any Willow Ridge EOY's that have failed in the database. I got one for 999.00 with free 2014 usage which is about equal to sjsharkie's $520. I know Marriott has made some offers on EOY at some resorts but it sure looks like they do not want an EOY at Willow Ridge. EOY appears to be the way to go for trading purposes.



Have you been watching eBay lately ? Been trying to win one for you but no luck. The selling price has been a lot lower than $2500 though.


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## Saintsfanfl (Mar 20, 2014)

Quadmaniac said:


> Have you been watching eBay lately ? Been trying to win one for you but no luck. The selling price has been a lot lower than $2500 though.



I haven't been because my cash is tied up in pending deals but I think I am giving up on annuals.


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## ScubaKat (Mar 20, 2014)

My couple of attempts at annual Willow Ridge platinum last year all failed to pass ROFR.  The later ones were in the $2k-$2500 range.  Gave up on Willow Ridge and ended up picking up a EOY Grande Vista Platinum for $1500 with 2014 usage instead.  I guess Willow Ridge is just not meant to be for us!



Saintsfanfl said:


> I just had a Platinum annual fail that was submitted for about $2,500. I don't see any Willow Ridge EOY's that have failed in the database. I got one for 999.00 with free 2014 usage which is about equal to sjsharkie's $520. I know Marriott has made some offers on EOY at some resorts but it sure looks like they do not want an EOY at Willow Ridge. EOY appears to be the way to go for trading purposes.


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## 022520 (Mar 29, 2014)

So does it look like if anyone is in the market for a cheap trader that slides past ROFR, its gonna have to be an EOY?  Maybe MGV EOY or Willow?  How about summer Manor Club eoy or Palm desert plat eoy?  Im looking exclusively at lock-offs.  Additionally, do you think more units will be in the resale market later in the year as we get closer to main fee due date.

Larry


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## dioxide45 (Mar 29, 2014)

bluejaylarry said:


> So does it look like if anyone is in the market for a cheap trader that slides past ROFR, its gonna have to be an EOY?  Maybe MGV EOY or Willow?  How about summer Manor Club eoy or Palm desert plat eoy?  Im looking exclusively at lock-offs.  Additionally, do you think more units will be in the resale market later in the year as we get closer to main fee due date.
> 
> Larry



I think Marriott is gobbling up a lot of inventory. As well as the overall market has turned around. Because of this, we see far fewer Orlando Marriott's sitting out on EBay up for grabs. I think if you want a sure thing for cheap, EOY is the way to go. Still not a sure thing, but closer to it than an annual.


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