# I Won...But Will This Clear ROFR



## WalnutBaron (Dec 9, 2008)

I just won this EOY at Hilton Waikoloa for $3250 with 9600 HGVC points.  I doubt it will clear ROFR, but I will keep you posted!

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item=270311557828


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## icydog (Dec 9, 2008)

I heard that Hilton is not exercising ROFR at all anymore. Let us know if they stop this one. What a deal you got if they don't.


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## alwysonvac (Dec 9, 2008)

*Auction is for the Bay Club EOY*

This is a HGVC affiliated resort. This is not a HGVC developed resort. 
HGVC just manages the resort.

Don't know about ROFR at the Bay Club. Here's a recent thread - http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=81599

Good Luck


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## CaliDave (Dec 9, 2008)

You might want to check this out  little more. I didn't know that Bayclub had a 9600 point ownership.  Maint fees under $900 , seems very low for this resort.. especially if it includes club fees?


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## WalnutBaron (Dec 10, 2008)

CaliDave said:


> You might want to check this out  little more. I didn't know that Bayclub had a 9600 point ownership.  Maint fees under $900 , seems very low for this resort.. especially if it includes club fees?



I contacted HCVC before I bid on this item.  They did confirm that the MF's were understated.  It's actually about $100 higher than what was stated in the description.

Other than that, all else (according to HGVC) was legit.


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## AFJAY (Dec 10, 2008)

*Hilton RORF*

I am getting ready to close on 2 bedroom EY 5000 points Las Vegas on the Strip and the agent we are working with, the day prior to ours 4 of her contracts were bought back by Hilton RORF.  Ours came back the next day and it passed.  This was about a week ago.  I believe 3 of the 4 were platinum and one gold. Don't know any further details.

Good luck


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## CaliDave (Dec 10, 2008)

WalnutBaron said:


> I contacted HCVC before I bid on this item.  They did confirm that the MF's were understated.  It's actually about $100 higher than what was stated in the description.
> 
> Other than that, all else (according to HGVC) was legit.



I'm guessing this is a 2bd platinum.. and unless HGVC changes the point totals. I could swear its 7000 points?  Unless you get lucky and its actually for the new Waikoloa?   Unless they have a penthouse or something? 

For your sake, I hope the seller and HGVC is correct. Its a fantastic deal if you get 9600 EOY points for that price

Last I heard a couple years ago, Bayclub wasn't buying anything back with ROFR.. I doubt that has changed.


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## WalnutBaron (Dec 10, 2008)

I spoke today with the closing company.  They confirmed that this is indeed a 9600-point purchase in what Hilton calls a "2-bedroom premiere" at the Bay Club.

I was very impressed with the representative I spoke with at the closing company (name is "The Timeshare Company" out of Wisconsin).  She was well-informed, professional, and told me that they work closely with Hilton and that--in 15 years working with Hilton--they have never had a purchase taken by Hilton on a ROFR basis.

I'm optimistic!


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## ricoba (Dec 10, 2008)

WalnutBaron said:


> this is indeed a 9600-point purchase in what Hilton calls a "2-bedroom premiere" at the Bay Club.



I see you own at Westin Princeville, while HGVC may call these units at Bay Club premier, having stayed in one, I am sure they will not meet the same definition of premier that your Westin resort will be. 

Having said that, hopefully this goes through for you.


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## Sandy VDH (Dec 10, 2008)

WalnutBaron said:


> I spoke today with the closing company.  They confirmed that this is indeed a 9600-point purchase in what Hilton calls a "2-bedroom premiere" at the Bay Club.
> 
> I was very impressed with the representative I spoke with at the closing company (name is "The Timeshare Company" out of Wisconsin).  She was well-informed, professional, and told me that they work closely with Hilton and that--in 15 years working with Hilton--they have never had a purchase taken by Hilton on a ROFR basis.
> 
> I'm optimistic!



Don't be too impressed with the rep, as the info you presented is impossible.

Bay Club only has 1 BR, 2 BR and 2 BR PLUS units.  There are NO 2 BR Premium units at the Bay Club.

If you got a 2 BR+ the point value is 8400.

Have them go back and check again.


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## Bill4728 (Dec 10, 2008)

Sandy Lovell said:


> Don't be too impressed with the rep, as the info you presented is impossible.
> 
> Bay Club only has 1 BR, 2 BR and 2 BR PLUS units.  There are NO 2 BR Premium units at the Bay Club.
> 
> ...



There are 2 bed premier units next store at HGVC Waikoloa with a pt value of 9600. If you somehow got that instead of the Bay Club, That would be a steal!!.   


BUT HGVC would likely take it  back with ROFR.


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## CaliDave (Dec 10, 2008)

If for some reason it turns out to be 8400 points.. ask them for $1K back.. its still a fantastic deal


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## jlee2070 (Dec 10, 2008)

whatever the description as long as it really is 9600 points w/ HGVC...  This is a GREAT DEAL...  CONGRATS!!!


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## Emi (Dec 10, 2008)

Hello
Congratulations on your win, but I was suspicious of this listing when I saw it on eBay. They list unit 1031 which is a one BR 3 floor unit in building 10. I asked fro clarification and they only said it is 9600 points but I would have to join the club. There are no 9600 point units at Bay Club. If this is a 2Br 8400 villa unit, that would be great. I wonder if it is 2 one bedroom units which would add up to 9600 points but you maintenance fee would be much much higher. 

You should get the unit number from them before proceeding.

Good luck. Let us know how it turns out.


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## WalnutBaron (Dec 10, 2008)

Thank you for all the good advice from all of you experienced TUGgers.  Since I am a newbie in the Hilton system and how things work, I certainly have a lot to learn.  I will contact the closing company and ask them to clarify these issues and let all of you know.  We'll see how this pans out...


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## annenp (Dec 10, 2008)

CaliDave said:


> I'm guessing this is a 2bd platinum.. and unless HGVC changes the point totals. I could swear its 7000 points?  Unless you get lucky and its actually for the new Waikoloa?   Unless they have a penthouse or something?
> 
> For your sake, I hope the seller and HGVC is correct. Its a fantastic deal if you get 9600 EOY points for that price
> 
> Last I heard a couple years ago, Bayclub wasn't buying anything back with ROFR.. I doubt that has changed.



the ebay ad shows 9600 biannual points.


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## annenp (Dec 10, 2008)

WalnutBaron said:


> I spoke today with the closing company.  They confirmed that this is indeed a 9600-point purchase in what Hilton calls a "2-bedroom premiere" at the Bay Club.
> 
> I was very impressed with the representative I spoke with at the closing company (name is "The Timeshare Company" out of Wisconsin).  She was well-informed, professional, and told me that they work closely with Hilton and that--in 15 years working with Hilton--they have never had a purchase taken by Hilton on a ROFR basis.
> 
> I'm optimistic!



you understand the ebay listing shows 9600 biannual points......


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## WalnutBaron (Dec 10, 2008)

Yes, I do.  In my original post, that's what I indicated I'd bid on and won.  I will check with the closing company tomorrow on this and see if I can get the confusion unraveled.


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## annenp (Dec 11, 2008)

WalnutBaron said:


> Yes, I do.  In my original post, that's what I indicated I'd bid on and won.  I will check with the closing company tomorrow on this and see if I can get the confusion unraveled.




either way - congratulations -- nice pick up.


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## alwysonvac (Dec 11, 2008)

annenp said:


> you understand the ebay listing shows 9600 biannual points......



Lots of ads use the word biannual when they actually mean biennial (or Every Other Year (EOY))


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## WalnutBaron (Dec 11, 2008)

Okay...I got some clarification this morning from the closing company.  They said that prior to accepting a timeshare week from the seller, they verify with Hilton the accuracy of the information in the eBay ad.  In this case, both my fellow TUGgers and the closing company are correct:

The 9600 points I am purchasing IS accurate.  What is happening is that I am actually purchasing two ownerships that, combined, total 9600 HGVC points.

I asked whether this combined ownership would result in higher MF's than were advertised, and the closing company again confirmed that--based on their discussion with HGVC--the MF's were accurate at the time they accepted this item from the seller.  Of course, those MF's were based on 2008 rates; the 2009 MF's will likely be higher.

Does this make sense to all of you HGVC experts?  Any additional advice you can offer would be most appreciated!  Thanks again for all your help.


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## short (Dec 11, 2008)

I went to the Bay Club annual meeting on Nov 20.  I will give a longer report but looking at my MF invoice for a 2 bedroom of $1,228 and the budget for a one bedroom looks like $890.  It looks like the MF quoted in the ebay ad is for 1 one bedroom unit not 2.

The Bay Club will be starting a complete soft goods refurb in about 2010 and is expecting to have a small assessment to complete all units.  About $300 per annual unit and $150 for a EOY.  I believe these were quoted for a 2 bedroom unit.

Short


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## ricoba (Dec 11, 2008)

short said:


> The Bay Club will be starting a complete soft goods refurb in about 2010 and is expecting to have a small assessment to complete all units.  About $300 per annual unit and $150 for a EOY.  I believe these were quoted for a 2 bedroom unit.
> 
> Short



Well from our experience at the Bay Club, the renovation is past due.  

We of course really liked the size of the unit, but boy oh boy was it outdated!


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## krj9999 (Dec 11, 2008)

WalnutBaron said:


> Okay...I got some clarification this morning from the closing company.  They said that prior to accepting a timeshare week from the seller, they verify with Hilton the accuracy of the information in the eBay ad.  In this case, both my fellow TUGgers and the closing company are correct:
> 
> The 9600 points I am purchasing IS accurate.  What is happening is that I am actually purchasing two ownerships that, combined, total 9600 HGVC points.
> 
> ...



Seems to me that the ad is misrepresenting the fees - as stated, it is 893 EOY.  But I think that it is really 893 x 2 EOY or 893 per year.


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## Bill4728 (Dec 11, 2008)

So to clarify, you are purchasing two contracts each for a platinum one bedroom EOY, RIGHT? 

$3500 would may pass since HGVC isn't in active sales with the Bay Club.


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## CaliDave (Dec 11, 2008)

This is still a good deal, if you can swallow those maint fees. Be prepared for $890/year or $1780 every two years. Plus a possible assessment. 

However if they ad had been accurate and said the maint fees are $1780, I would have to guess your high bid would have cost you much less. 

I would renegotiate.. or maybe give the seller a link to this thread.


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## CaliDave (Dec 11, 2008)

Here is a similar thread, from the same seller.. different ebay id, but the same seller.

http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=86847


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## DEROS (Dec 11, 2008)

*HGVC Buy In*

Another thing you need to consider is that you will have to pay $400 to HGVC to join "The Club" and convert your TS to HGVC points.  Club membership is not transferable during resales.  Since you are buying 2 TS you might have to pay $800 to buy in.


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## WalnutBaron (Dec 11, 2008)

I knew all of the TUG experts would come through for me.  Thanks so much!  I will definitely be taking up these issues with the closing company and the seller.  When I spoke to the closing company this morning, they said they will most certainly work with me if anything represented in the ad is inaccurate.

Regardless, it sounds like I landed a very good deal.  Now I just have to make sure I negotiate a reasonable settlement for what I'm actually buying.

I'll keep you posted.


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## nazclk (Dec 11, 2008)

*HGVC*

I owned 4800 points till last year and it was 893  so I think the fees stated were yearly fees, however the OP purchased an EOY so his fees will be close to $1800


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## short (Dec 11, 2008)

*Added benefit*

As an added benefit, if you play golf and actually go to the Bay Club and are a HGVC member, you can play the Kings and the Beach Course 18 holes for $90 plus tax or $93ish dollars.:whoopie: 

Short


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## DEROS (Dec 11, 2008)

short said:


> As an added benefit, if you play golf and actually go to the Bay Club and are a HGVC member, you can play the Kings and the Beach Course 18 holes for $90 plus tax or $93ish dollars.:whoopie:
> 
> Short



Are you sure about that.  I thought they stop doing that unless you were an actual kama`aina.  i.e have a drivers license or state id stating you residency of Hawaii.


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## short (Dec 11, 2008)

DEROS said:


> Are you sure about that.  I thought they stop doing that unless you were an actual kama`aina.  i.e have a drivers license or state id stating you residency of Hawaii.



Deros,

This is what I was told by several people.  We ended up playing on the Twilight rate of $75 which starts at about 2:30 because we only wanted to play 9 holes.

I was told HGVC had negotiated this deal for BayClub Owners who are HGVC members by more than one person at the Concieges Desk.

Next time I go I plan to play more golf.  I am getting a new set of clubs from Santa which means I will play so much better.:hysterical: 

Short


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## frankhi (Dec 13, 2008)

1031 (as in the ebay description) is a 1 br 1.5 ba. Another one just sold on ebay for $1625. They are 4800 pts per year; the seller it seems double that because, well, who knows.......   The unit type you bot is a "penthouse" which means 3rd floor and has vaulted ceilings (and your type has 1.5 ba), obviously, no one walking above you. If the unit really is with Hilton, many are not, they are still part of the original bay club, hilton does not recognize the "penthouse" and you could get any 1br unit. If it is part of the original Bay Club and you plan on mostly using it, don't sign it up with Hilton. If you stay with the Bay Club, you can reserve in Jan of, say 2009, for any week in 2010.

The eoy fee (893) is correct  and then property tax is about 86 more. Both are billed ONCE eoy.


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## WalnutBaron (Dec 14, 2008)

frankhi said:


> 1031 (as in the ebay description) is a 1 br 1.5 ba. Another one just sold on ebay for $1625. They are 4800 pts per year; the seller it seems double that because, well, who knows.......   The unit type you bot is a "penthouse" which means 3rd floor and has vaulted ceilings (and your type has 1.5 ba), obviously, no one walking above you. If the unit really is with Hilton, many are not, they are still part of the original bay club, hilton does not recognize the "penthouse" and you could get any 1br unit. If it is part of the original Bay Club and you plan on mostly using it, don't sign it up with Hilton. If you stay with the Bay Club, you can reserve in Jan of, say 2009, for any week in 2010.
> 
> The eoy fee (893) is correct  and then property tax is about 86 more. Both are billed ONCE eoy.



Thank you, frankhi, for this excellent summary.  I'm still trying to get clarification from the closing company, but it's pretty clear to me that the information in the eBay ad was erroneous.  They tell me I have actually bought 2 1 BR units (which is how the seller came up with 9600 points), but that also means that the MF's are understated by half.  I will definitely be re-negotiating this deal because the MF's were misrepresented.


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## Seth Nock (Dec 17, 2008)

This is the reason to use a reliable escrow company (who will verify the correct maintenance fees) and a licensed Broker who will take financial responsibility for incorrect info and will verify information prior to listing.  There is a reason that states require licenses for the sale of properties. If the closing company has not had any Hilton units bought back under right of first refusal, then that should be a red Flag.  Last week I had 4 units bought back under right of first refusal.


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## WalnutBaron (Dec 18, 2008)

Seth Nock said:


> This is the reason to use a reliable escrow company (who will verify the correct maintenance fees) and a licensed Broker who will take financial responsibility for incorrect info and will verify information prior to listing.  There is a reason that states require licenses for the sale of properties. If the closing company has not had any Hilton units bought back under right of first refusal, then that should be a red Flag.  Last week I had 4 units bought back under right of first refusal.


I'm still working on this one, but so far all looks good.  According to the escrow company, they received an estoppel from the Bay Club prior to this item being listed on eBay.  The Bay Club confirmed the accuracy of the information in the ad.  According to an email I received from the escrow company yesterday, "this ownership is for 2 one bedroom units, however, they have been combined to create one new 9,600 point contract, for which, we were informed by the resort, that the yearly maintenance fees are $893 in total for the whole contract".

I tried to contact the resort to get confirmation of this from them, but their owner services rep told me that since this item is in escrow, she was not allowed to give me further information directly and that I needed to work through the escrow company.

Thanks again to everyone for your continued advice.


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## alwysonvac (Dec 18, 2008)

> According to an email I received from the escrow company yesterday, "this ownership is for 2 one bedroom units, however, they have been combined to create one new 9,600 point contract, for which, we were informed by the resort, that the yearly maintenance fees are $893 in total for the whole contract".



Can they do that?  
Doesnt' that impact the Association's resort budget if Bay Club isn't collecting a yearly MF on one of the 1 bedroom units?


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## Seth Nock (Dec 18, 2008)

WalnutBaron said:


> I'm still working on this one, but so far all looks good.  According to the escrow company, they received an estoppel from the Bay Club prior to this item being listed on eBay.  The Bay Club confirmed the accuracy of the information in the ad.  According to an email I received from the escrow company yesterday, "this ownership is for 2 one bedroom units, however, they have been combined to create one new 9,600 point contract, for which, we were informed by the resort, that the yearly maintenance fees are $893 in total for the whole contract".
> 
> I tried to contact the resort to get confirmation of this from them, but their owner services rep told me that since this item is in escrow, she was not allowed to give me further information directly and that I needed to work through the escrow company.
> 
> Thanks again to everyone for your continued advice.



That is not the maintenance fee.  It is significantly higher.  Also, there is a $399 activation fee which they did not tell you about. Email me privately the owner's info sethnock@hotmail.com and I will try to get you the correct maintenance fee.  It is either between $1600 and $1800 or you are buying 1 1 bedroom with 4800 points and 4800 banked points.  You have been given incorrect information from probably a non-licensed "brokerage company" and a closing company that appears to not be a third party escrow company.  You may not have gotten a bad deal, but you did not get what you think you did. There are many scams.  I did not interfere with this post until I realized that you are probably getting scammed.  DON'T SEND ANY MORE MONEY TO THE CLOSING COMPANY UNTIL YOU GET THE CORRECT INFORMATION, AS THE INFO YOU HAVE BEEN GIVEN IS MOST PROBABLY WRONG! If you send them any more money prior to getting verifiable info, you have only yourself to blame when you find out that you have been scammed. Sorry for the severity of my tone, but I don't want to see you lose your hard earned money.


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## alwysonvac (Dec 18, 2008)

alwysonvac said:


> Can they do that?
> Doesnt' that impact the Association's resort budget if Bay Club isn't collecting a yearly MF on one of the 1 bedroom units?



Ooooops, sorry I forgot this is a EOY deal. So it sounds like you're paying half of the MF yearly.
Take advantage of Seth's offer to help.


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## Blues (Dec 18, 2008)

alwysonvac said:


> Ooooops, sorry I forgot this is a EOY deal. So it sounds like you're paying half of the MF yearly.
> Take advantage of Seth's offer to help.



Yep, that's how I read it too.  He's buying two units at 4800 EOY each.  He's paying $893 *yearly*, which is right for two EOY units.  Not a bad deal for $3250, if you want a Bay Club.

But I also agree with the advice to take advantage of Seth's offer to help.  You can't be too careful.


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## Seth Nock (Dec 18, 2008)

Blues said:


> Yep, that's how I read it too.  He's buying two units at 4800 EOY each.  He's paying $893 *yearly*, which is right for two EOY units.  Not a bad deal for $3250, if you want a Bay Club.
> 
> But I also agree with the advice to take advantage of Seth's offer to help.  You can't be too careful.



The only thing is, the ad says $893 every other year. They also did not say there is a $399 enrollment fee.

"The maintenance fees, taxes, and club dues total $893 and are billed every two years just prior to the issue of your points. "


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## Seth Nock (Dec 19, 2008)

Based on my best guess, this is a 4800 point every other year unit with 4800 points banked in or transferred in.  As I don't have any seller info (and you did not ask for me to look into it), I cannot verify this, but make sure you verify the information with the resort prior to sending any more money, as you have been given alot of incorrect and possibly fraudulent information. Based on the way it appears to be sold, you will NOT be enrolled into HGVC, so your unit will be a 1 bedroom every other year unit and your 4800 points that were banked in will expire and never enter your account.  The "escrow" company does not appear to be third party, but just another source for the seller to get additional funds.  I hope I am incorrect, but I don't think I am.


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## Bill4728 (Dec 19, 2008)

Seth Nock said:


> Based on my best guess, this is a 4800 point every other year unit with 4800 points banked in or transferred in.  As I don't have any seller info (and you did not ask for me to look into it), I cannot verify this, but make sure you verify the information with the resort prior to sending any more money, as you have been given alot of incorrect and possibly fraudulent information. Based on the way it appears to be sold, you will NOT be enrolled into HGVC, so your unit will be a 1 bedroom every other year unit and your 4800 points that were banked in will expire and never enter your account.  The "escrow" company does not appear to be third party, but just another source for the seller to get additional funds.  I hope I am incorrect, but I don't think I am.



Walnut Baron,

Seth is one of the few licensed TS brokerage companies here on TUG. He has the full trust of many of us long time Tuggers.  If he says this looks to good to be true it likely is TOO GOOD TO BE TRUE!!

Before moving forward I'd talk to Seth!!

Also this concerns me: 





> The Bay Club confirmed the accuracy of the information in the ad. According to an email I received from the escrow company yesterday, "this ownership is for 2 one bedroom units, however, they have been combined to create one new 9,600 point contract, for which, we were informed by the resort, that the yearly maintenance fees are $893 in total for the whole contract".
> 
> I tried to contact the resort to get confirmation of this from them, but their owner services rep told me that since this item is in escrow, she was not allowed to give me further information directly and that I needed to work through the escrow company.


This just isn't right. The resort will talk to you directly  & give you an estopple letter about the week if the owner directs them to do so. IMHO, I wouldn't take the word of the escrow company. 

Good Luck


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## Seth Nock (Dec 19, 2008)

This appears to be a company owned by Uri Fried; well known to the timeshare industry.  There were many threads about him in the past and how one day he was shut down by EBAY ......


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## GeorgeJ. (Dec 20, 2008)

WalnutBaron, this is the most confusing deal I have ever seen.

What exactly do you think you bought? 2 4800 point EOY units that are giving you 4800 points per year? Or do you think you are getting 9600 Every Other Year (meaning that both of the 2 units are Even Years or Odd Years) which would more or less equal 4800 points per year. Or do you feel that you're going to be getting 9600 points per year? (which would not be true in any case if these are two EOY weeks)

If Seth is correct, you only bought 4800 points EOY and that's only if you pay to join HGVC since membership won't transfer with the sale..

But you certainly need the escrow company & Bay Club to spell out for you exactly what you're buying.

Why didn't the escrow company send you a copy of the letter that they say The Bay Club sent to them (but rather just sent you an email saying what it supposedly said)?


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## Seth Nock (Dec 21, 2008)

Hoc's input fron March 22, 2007

Hoc
March 22, 2007, 03:40 AM
I bought a cheap timeshare from Uri Fried a number of years ago. It had been advertised as a 2-br unit. He transferred a 1-br. unit from his name, after I had paid for the timeshare, plus annual fees, plus closing costs, to me. When I pointed out the error, I was sent a deed to re-transfer the unit back to him, and that he would then transfer me the correct one.

I deeded the timeshare back, and then was given the runaround with an excuse about needing tax ID numbers, etc., which I gave his company (webuytimeshares.com). He never transferred any timeshare into my name, and after many months of followup, I was told that the salesman was no longer with the company, and that I would not get anything. So I was out about a thousand dollars in purchase price, annual fees and closing costs.

In other words, I was flat-out defrauded. Don't trust him.


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## Seth Nock (Dec 21, 2008)

Also, everyone keeps calling the closing company an escrow company.  Escrow company, means third party.  I believe it is a closing company, not an escrow company.


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## Zac495 (Dec 21, 2008)

Trust Seth. I bought my resales through him. He's trustworthy and beyond helpful.


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## WalnutBaron (Dec 24, 2008)

GeorgeJ. said:


> WalnutBaron, this is the most confusing deal I have ever seen.
> 
> What exactly do you think you bought? 2 4800 point EOY units that are giving you 4800 points per year? Or do you think you are getting 9600 Every Other Year (meaning that both of the 2 units are Even Years or Odd Years) which would more or less equal 4800 points per year. Or do you feel that you're going to be getting 9600 points per year? (which would not be true in any case if these are two EOY weeks)
> 
> If Seth is correct, you only bought 4800 points EOY and that's only if you pay to join HGVC since membership won't transfer with the sale..



At long last, I finally have clarification on what I bought.  The eBay ad was incorrect (as many of you had surmised long before it was confirmed by the escrow company today).  What I bought was two one-bedroom penthouse units at the Bay Club which were combined to equal 9600 points.  The HGVC membership fee of $399 has been included as part of my purchase price, so no additional cost will be incurred for that and the points will be converted upon completion of the closing.

Because the MF's are double of what was advertised in the ad, I have countered back to the seller that I will go ahead with the purchase if we reduce the purchase price to $1,500.  We'll see what happens.


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