# Consolidated Wyndham Points Spreadsheet



## skotrla (Jun 13, 2018)

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Qg7jd4yPldw-HPWaPkVk1E68KsETwoIuyBFnJPulkgw/edit?usp=sharing

I took the annual points for the cheapest 2BR at each resort to come up with a median 2BR cost of 8.2M points (158K/week).

My interest was in comparing Wyndham point costs with HICV points costs - this compares to 6.1M (117K/week) for HICV.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1HB00pcN4u116afQyKAG1iumSddSaSTmC8rf5OoeN9Yc/edit?usp=sharing

This 25% point difference matches what I saw looking at a small sample of resorts that overlap between HICV and Wyndham - what it doesn't answer is whether the median Wyndham 2BR is 25% nicer/better locations than the median 2BR HICV or whether the Wyndham points are 25% less valuable than HICV points.

If someone has experience with both clubs, it would be great to get some feedback on the quality/value of some Wyndham resorts in the 8.2M range vs. some HICV resorts in the 6.1M range.  If the Wyndham units in this range are higher end units, then Wyndham overall resorts are likely just higher end.  If the units are comparable, then Wyndham points are likely less valuable than HICV points.

-Scott
Owner, HICV Google+ Group


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## Avislo (Jun 13, 2018)

Impressive work.  Especially the breakout of resorts with the number of bedrooms at the resort.


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## ronparise (Jun 13, 2018)

You cannot compare one system with another in this way

For example a one bedroom at wyndhams Avenue Plaza Resort is 140000 Club Wyndham points or 12500 Worldmark credits. Or you could buy one of the floating weeks deeded at this resort. 

Same condo, different currencies. 

140000 Average  maintenance fee Wyndham points contract will cost in the neighborhood of $1000  and mf about $900. The 12500 Worldmark credits will cost about $2500 and mf is about $875
And the floating week will cost about a dollar and the mf is about $800 

If I wanted to visit only this resort I know what I would buy and that’s the week. It’s cheaper to buy cheaper to own and what’s not clear from the data is the flexibility the original developer built into these weeks. (Split weeks and a right to use provision) 

The more important thing that will push me to one system or another isn’t the numbers, it’s the location. I bought Wyndham because it was the only system with resorts in Washington DC, San Francisco, and Florida. It didn’t matter whether another system was cheaper or not. These are the places I wanted to visit and Wyndham was the only system that offered all three


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## skotrla (Jun 13, 2018)

ronparise said:


> You cannot compare one system with another in this way
> 
> For example a one bedroom at wyndhams Avenue Plaza Resort is 140000 Club Wyndham points or 12500 Worldmark credits. Or you could buy one of the floating weeks deeded at this resort.
> 
> ...



I'm not trying to compare maintenance cost or initial cost - I'm trying to compare the currency.  If 140K Wyndham points = 12.5K Worldmarm credits consistently, than the conversion factor is 11.2:1.

-Scott


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## skotrla (Jun 13, 2018)

I did the same analysis for FL units only, as that might be a better comparison.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1v5YIoLN2PhAi5HJROWxqrv_N68b6raBt

HICV FL units are about 22% fewer points than Wyndham FL units (vs. 26% overall).  The two median HICV resorts are both Orange Lake vs. the median Wyndham resorts are Bonnet Creek and Sea Gardens.  Has anybody been to both Wyndham and HICV resorts out of these median resorts?  Are they comparable or is Wyndham 22% nicer?

-Scott


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## scootr5 (Jun 13, 2018)

skotrla said:


> I'm not trying to compare maintenance cost or initial cost - I'm trying to compare the currency.  If 140K Wyndham points = 12.5K Worldmarm credits consistently, than the conversion factor is 11.2:1.



There is not going to be any consistency like that. At Galena, a 2 bedroom prime season is 164,000 Wyndham points versus 10000 WM credits, or 16.4:1.

Dolphin's Cove is even more varied. WM only has one season, while Wyndham has 2. A 2 bedroom would be either 17.5:1 or 15.4:1

It's like when people try to equate Wyndham points to RCI points - it just doesn't work.



skotrla said:


> Are they comparable or is Wyndham 22% nicer?



This is going to be a highly subjective assessment.


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## skotrla (Jun 13, 2018)

scootr5 said:


> There is not going to be any consistency like that. At Galena, a 2 bedroom prime season is 164,000 Wyndham points versus 10000 WM credits, or 16.4:1.
> 
> Dolphin's Cove is even more varied. WM only has one season, while Wyndham has 2. A 2 bedroom would be either 17.5:1 or 15.4:1
> 
> ...



I'm looking for a good average - by looking at the annual points cost of a unit, different seasons are taken into account and inconsistencies are averaged out.  While comparing resorts is subjective, it can still be valuable if people consistently prefer one resort over the other (not taking cost into account).  My assumption is that these median resorts are of equal value unless the collective opinion of everyone is that the median resorts in one system are better than the other.

On another thread, the feedback from one person was that these median Wyndham resorts are 12-15% nicer than these median HICV resorts, which would mean ~60% of the points difference is due to greater Wyndham quality and the other ~40% is due to Wyndham points being worth slightly less than HICV points.

-Scott


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## bobbyoc23 (Jun 13, 2018)

skotrla said:


> I'm not trying to compare maintenance cost or initial cost - I'm trying to compare the currency.  If 140K Wyndham points = 12.5K Worldmarm credits consistently, than the conversion factor is 11.2:1.
> 
> -Scott



You have to consider maintenance and initial cost when comparing (normalizing) different point systems, right?


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## skotrla (Jun 13, 2018)

bobbyoc23 said:


> You have to consider maintenance and initial cost when comparing (normalizing) different point systems, right?



Maintenance costs add quite a bit of complexity, even within a single system. The way I would approach it is that points have a certain value, and then maintenance is the cost that you are paying for that value. 

-Scott


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## bobbyoc23 (Jun 13, 2018)

skotrla said:


> Maintenance costs add quite a bit of complexity, even within a single system. The way I would approach it is that points have a certain value, and then maintenance is the cost that you are paying for that value.
> 
> -Scott



Agreed. If you only consider maintenance costs, you need to calculate the price per point (usually $/1,000 points). Then figure out how many points are required for whatever size unit that you need. Then do the math and figure out how much that will cost. Do this for both systems and find out which has the better value. Is that what you’re doing? It sounds like you’re only comparing the number of points between the systems... but my apologies if I misunderstood.


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## Jan M. (Jun 13, 2018)

My question is are you able to reduce all this data to what in the end will truly be relevant to you?

I'm going to use apples and oranges. Some kind of apples and oranges are always on sale. I'm looking at the sale flyers for the different stores and making up a shopping list trying to decide which store to go to and whether apples or oranges will be the lower cost per piece of fruit. My husband sees me making my list and says we haven't had the Honey Crisp apples he loves as his special treat in a while. They are more expensive even when they are on sale and when they aren't seem really expensive when compared to the sale prices of the other apples and the oranges. Then I catch myself and take a mental step back, remembering that he works hard and deserves that one special treat when he asks for it once in awhile.

Vacations are the Honey Crisp apples. Figure out which system will be your Honey Crisp apples then research the cheapest way to get them.

I'm reminded of a small resort we stayed at on the beach in Panama City Beach in late August of 2016. The resort wasn't fancy but it was nice. No activities and the fronts of the units faced the parking lot and hotel next door. There was a big enough balcony? on the beach end of the building when you came up the steps to the second floor where we stayed for a small group of people to be able to sit in some shade, enjoy the breeze and watch the water. It had a decent pool area with lounges, chairs and tables. There were a couple of grills and picnic tables. No washers and dryers in the units but they had the towel exchange room open in mornings. Like some of the other small resorts we've stayed at some of the owners there had been coming the same time for years and had become vacation family. I really enjoyed their company during the days as my husband was there for work. Overall I would have no objection to going back as long as it was a discounted point week but would want to go at a time that didn't have the heat and humidity of late August.

There was a very elderly couple staying there who had a third floor unit. They were giving their week away as they could no longer handle the drive to get there or the stairs. The people we had been visiting with during our stay liked us and wanted us to take the week. The maintenance fees weren't too high either. Yes we could have deposited it for trade if we wanted to go other places but I knew that it wouldn't be a strong trader. I was able to book the resort as a cheap discounted point week and no one else had booked it during the 7-10 days it took my husband to make sure that was the week he would be working in the area and for me to decide if I was going too. I didn't want a fixed week either. We have Wyndham points and several resorts in points weeks with RCI too. I wanted no part of having a third type of ownership. Of having to use a fixed week with the TPU's, Trading Power Units, if we deposited the week for trade. Lastly we had no desire to drive 10+ hours to Panama City Beach and home again every year for a week in late August. If we had been offered that week a few years earlier I would have taken it in a heartbeat. However in the intervening years I had learned enough to know it wasn't a Honey Crisp. Someone else might at look at that week as FREE and they could deposit it for trade to go other places and said omg ,yes, a FREE apple.

There are so many things to learn about using the different timeshare systems that trying to teach someone who has no experience of them is a challenge and often not as successful as we would like. Trying to learn enough to evaluate more than one system is, as you can see from our replies, something several of us are telling you we don't think can be done by someone who has never owned a timeshare. There are a several people who post on the different threads and have told about their history of owning timeshares. They bought or were given a timeshare and over time when they wanted more added to what they had. When by personal experience they learned what worked best for them, what they liked. they gave away or sold some of what they'd previously acquired. By using what they learned from personal experience and what they learned on TUG they knew what they wanted and what they could expect to pay to get it. Some people can and will tell you exactly what they would have done differently had they known more in the beginning. Other people bought something they liked, have been very happy for years and never felt the need to look at other systems. They don't torture themselves with doubts about whether they could have saved themselves $1000 or even $10,000 by owning somewhere else. Somewhere they might not have liked as much.

One thing many of us have in common is that we bought developer and spent a lot more than people who bought resale. Live and learn. In our case back when we first bought we wouldn't have touched resale. There were just too many people who bought resale deeds and found themselves saddled with unpaid assessments, back maintenance fees and etc. That was back in the dark ages by comparison to now. Now almost everyone has a computer, we know how to find information online, the timeshares have websites and many of us have joined TUG. One of my reasons for bringing up how things have changed is to also to tell you that no system will be the exactly the same in 10 years or likely even 5 years. There will always be changes and you may not like all of them. So don't allow yourself to be swayed by people who are disenchanted because their system changed. You can count on things changing and it isn't inconceivable that some changes could actually be for the better but honestly it doesn't usually work that way. For those of us who have owned for years it is hard not to miss what we once had. I would be over the moon ecstatic to have the VIP benefits we had when Wyndham was still Fairfield before 2006. Or even in the first couple of years after Fairfield became Wyndham.

You seem to have narrowed it down to two systems, pick the system that looks like it has the best resorts in areas you know you will enjoy visiting. Get enough points to be able to enjoy at least one vacation a year at a peak time. Get the lowest maintenance fees for the lowest price. An example I like to use is that a 100k Club Wyndham Access points reservation costs approximately $150 more in maintenance fees that what I own costs me. So if you pay $500 more to acquire one of the cheaper maintenance fee deeds than a Club Wyndham Access contract it would take 3.3 years or in some cases even less to recover that $500. For me 5 years or less to recover a higher purchase price is acceptable. At 6 or 7 years I would have to think long and hard. Over that I wouldn't do it at this point in our lives. If we were younger I might consider 10 years acceptable but probably not even then because there is so much out there that you can get a good deal on if you are patient.


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## skotrla (Jun 14, 2018)

Jan M. said:


> My question is are you able to reduce all this data to what in the end will truly be relevant to you?
> 
> I'm going to use apples and oranges. Some kind of apples and oranges are always on sale. I'm looking at the sale flyers for the different stores and making up a shopping list trying to decide which store to go to and whether apples or oranges will be the lower cost per piece of fruit. My husband sees me making my list and says we haven't had the Honey Crisp apples he loves as his special treat in a while. They are more expensive even when they are on sale and when they aren't seem really expensive when compared to the sale prices of the other apples and the oranges. Then I catch myself and take a mental step back, remembering that he works hard and deserves that one special treat when he asks for it once in awhile.
> 
> ...



I'm an HICV Elite owner trying to understand how points compare between the systems, so that I can make an informed decision regarding expanding into Wyndham.  Put another way, what I am trying to understand is if Wyndham were to purchase a resort from HICV (or vice versa), would they change the points or leave them the same?

-Scott


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## Jan M. (Jun 14, 2018)

skotrla said:


> I'm an HICV Elite owner trying to understand how points compare between the systems, so that I can make an informed decision regarding expanding into Wyndham. Put another way, what I am trying to understand is if Wyndham were to purchase a resort from HICV (or vice versa), would they change the points or leave them the same.



Do you have some information that makes you think this is likely to happen? HICV has been around for a long time and so has Wyndham which started out as Fairfield in 1979. Both are associated with hotel names so it would be a major loss of face in the business world if one of them were to sell their timeshare division to the other. Although Wyndham is separating their hotel and timeshare divisions. When Wyndham acquired Shell and Worldmark it gave Wyndham presence in areas they didn't have resorts. When I looked at the list of HICV locations too many of the resorts are in the same areas that Wyndham already has resorts. So I don't see an advantage for Wyndham to acquire HICV and it doesn't fit in their current growth pattern which is to establish a presence in urban areas. I don't think HICV is in a position to be able to buy out Wyndham. But you know what they say, never say never.

Hilton Grand Vacation Club, HGVC, does have a strong presence in an area Wyndham owners want and there is a big demand for, Southwest Florida. HGVC has resorts on Sanibel Island, Captiva Island, Marco Island and Fort Myers Beach. Wyndham has nothing in these areas.

If you read back through the threads you may be able to see how it worked when Wyndham took over Worldmark. Worldmark owners still owned the same number of points and had the same point charts for the Worldmark resorts. The change for the owners was that each system was given access to a limited amount of inventory in the other system. And both systems have their own point charts for that inventory. There seems to be a limited amount of Worldmark inventory that Wyndham owners can book. And I know that at some of the Wyndham resorts there is some Worldmark inventory. I'm not sure if all the Wyndham resorts have some Worldmark inventory. And they both trade through RCI as does HICV, HGVC and DVC. Wyndham owns RCI.

If you own HICV do you have an RCI weeks account or an RCI points account? We have an RCI points account but also have an RCI weeks account through Wyndham which we don't use. So far this year with our RCI points from owning at Grandview Las Vegas I've booked weeks at three Wyndham resorts, the new one in Austin, Reunion and Bonnet Creek. I would have access to some of the Wyndham resorts even if we didn't own Wyndham.


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## skotrla (Jun 14, 2018)

Jan M. said:


> Do you have some information that makes you think this is likely to happen? HICV has been around for a long time and so has Wyndham which started out as Fairfield in 1979. Both are associated with hotel names so it would be a major loss of face in the business world if one of them were to sell their timeshare division to the other. Although Wyndham is separating their hotel and timeshare divisions. When Wyndham acquired Shell and Worldmark it gave Wyndham presence in areas they didn't have resorts. When I looked at the list of HICV locations too many of the resorts are in the same areas that Wyndham already has resorts. So I don't see an advantage for Wyndham to acquire HICV and it doesn't fit in their current growth pattern which is to establish a presence in urban areas. I don't think HICV is in a position to be able to buy out Wyndham. But you know what they say, never say never.
> 
> Hilton Grand Vacation Club, HGVC, does have a strong presence in an area Wyndham owners want and there is a big demand for, Southwest Florida. HGVC has resorts on Sanibel Island, Captiva Island, Marco Island and Fort Myers Beach. Wyndham has nothing in these areas.
> 
> ...



Just hypothetical - the question is whether the points values for similar-valued resorts is close enough that one resort would use the point chart from the other resort or rather they would establish different point values.

-Scott


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## MaryBella7 (Jun 14, 2018)

skotrla said:


> Just hypothetical - the question is whether the points values for similar-valued resorts is close enough that one resort would use the point chart from the other resort or rather they would establish different point values.
> 
> -Scott



If they establish different point values, they will also likely adjust the current owner point values to match the symbolic ownership the original points represent.


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## ronparise (Jun 14, 2018)

skotrla said:


> I'm not trying to compare maintenance cost or initial cost - I'm trying to compare the currency.  If 140K Wyndham points = 12.5K Worldmarm credits consistently, than the conversion factor is 11.2:1.
> 
> -Scott




Club Wyndham to Worldmark has done that work for you.  Their club pass program is pretty close to 16.5:1


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## ronparise (Jun 14, 2018)

skotrla said:


> I'm not trying to compare maintenance cost or initial cost - I'm trying to compare the currency.  If 140K Wyndham points = 12.5K Worldmarm credits consistently, than the conversion factor is 11.2:1.
> 
> -Scott


Now what you are doing makes even less sense to me, if that’s possible

I don’t see how knowing the ratio helps to make a decision to buy or rent one system or the other.  Perhaps that’s not the decision you are trying to make, or perhaps you aren’t even trying to make a decision at all

the difference between Leonard and Sheldon on the tv show is that Leonard is an applied physicist and Sheldon is theoritical. 
Leonard starts with a problem to solve or a question to answer.  Sheldon starts with a theory to prove or disprove 

Are you a Leonard or Sheldon. 

Leonard might say I want to stay at a certain resort or resorts on a regular basis. Should I own a timeshare or rent?  Or perhaps  I should stay at a hotel

Sheldon might say.  I don’t like vacations at all but Timeshares are interesting.  Let’s take a look at them and collect some data and see what we might learn


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## skotrla (Jun 14, 2018)

ronparise said:


> Now what you are doing makes even less sense to me, if that’s possible
> 
> I don’t see how knowing the ratio helps to make a decision to buy or rent one system or the other.  Perhaps that’s not the decision you are trying to make, or perhaps you aren’t even trying to make a decision at all
> 
> ...



OK, let's try another approach.  I want to buy/rent 1M points worth of HICV reservations and 1M points worth Wyndham reservations (one time, not ownership).  Excluding guest fees for Wyndham VIP and guest fees and booking fees for a HICV Elite, what's a fair price to pay for each?  I can tell you that HICV points can be rented by Elite owners in quantity at $5/1, so typically HICV Elite owners are going to be in the $7-$9/1K range.  Should I expect to pay more or less for the Wyndham points?  The problem here is that there's not a lot of data in this area, so it's not clear to me that this is any less subjective than comparing resorts between systems.

-Scott


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## tschwa2 (Jun 14, 2018)

Toward the end of the year there are Wyndham owners who have excess points that they can not push over to the following year.  You may be able to find some bargains.

Are you comparing the cost of a reservation during prime time that the owner either made specifically for you or for the purposes of renting out that they made either at 10 months or using ARP to book at 13 months or some opportunistic rentals that might be within 60 days and include upgrades and/or discounted reservations.  

It sounds like you want to find a Platinum owner who isn't using their points and offer to be an account manager for them.  There were businesses (that went out of business last year with the changes) that paid $6 per 1000 points.  For some owners that covered MF for the year for others not but they didn't have to do anything.  For those who make a regular thing out of renting reservations, they would want more than $6 per 1000.


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## CCdad (Jun 14, 2018)

skotrla said:


> OK, let's try another approach.  I want to buy/rent 1M points worth of HICV reservations and 1M points worth Wyndham reservations (one time, not ownership).  Excluding guest fees for Wyndham VIP and guest fees and booking fees for a HICV Elite, what's a fair price to pay for each?  I can tell you that HICV points can be rented by Elite owners in quantity at $5/1, so typically HICV Elite owners are going to be in the $7-$9/1K range.  Should I expect to pay more or less for the Wyndham points?  The problem here is that there's not a lot of data in this area, so it's not clear to me that this is any less subjective than comparing resorts between systems.
> 
> -Scott



If "renting" from a Wyndham owner, you'll expect to pay between $8 - $12+ per thousand points (or more).  

If renting a specific Wyndham reservation, it'll depend on whether a VIP Platinum owner will pass along their discount and/or upgrade to you.  You could pay more or less depending on the demand for a specific reservation (a prime beach location for the July 4th week will likely cost you more to rent than $12 / thousand points).


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## skotrla (Jun 14, 2018)

tschwa2 said:


> Toward the end of the year there are Wyndham owners who have excess points that they can not push over to the following year.  You may be able to find some bargains.
> 
> Are you comparing the cost of a reservation during prime time that the owner either made specifically for you or for the purposes of renting out that they made either at 10 months or using ARP to book at 13 months or some opportunistic rentals that might be within 60 days and include upgrades and/or discounted reservations.
> 
> It sounds like you want to find a Platinum owner who isn't using their points and offer to be an account manager for them.  There were businesses (that went out of business last year with the changes) that paid $6 per 1000 points.  For some owners that covered MF for the year for others not but they didn't have to do anything.  For those who make a regular thing out of renting reservations, they would want more than $6 per 1000.



I'm thinking about points without any restrictions or expiration for reservations that are not booked yet - not ARP at a specific resort because I suspect the cost of those would vary by resort based on maintenance at that resort.

What are the people that were selling their points for $6/1K doing now?  Are they selling for less since all of the buyers went away?

-Scott


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## capital city (Jun 14, 2018)

They are probably not charging less because then they would lose money every year and would be better off selling.

Not sure if this is covered yet but I dont look at averages at all but do look at getting a deal. I own at Panama City with around $4.5 /thousand mf.  I like to stay at resorts where I can get a week for around 150,000 so I'm at less then $100 a night compared to a hotel it is an absolute steal. Others may own points at $6/ thousand mf and then stay at a resort like Panama City and pay 250,000 for the week and end up paying over $200 per night. These are not extremes and bookings like this I'm sure happen every hour of every day. So yes you can find an average but how much will that really help you?


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## skotrla (Jun 14, 2018)

capital city said:


> They are probably not charging less because then they would lose money every year and would be better off selling.
> 
> Not sure if this is covered yet but I dont look at averages at all but do look at getting a deal. I own at Panama City with around $4.5 /thousand mf.  I like to stay at resorts where I can get a week for around 150,000 so I'm at less then $100 a night compared to a hotel it is an absolute steal. Others may own points at $6/ thousand mf and then stay at a resort like Panama City and pay 250,000 for the week and end up paying over $200 per night. These are not extremes and bookings like this I'm sure happen every hour of every day. So yes you can find an average but how much will that really help you?



Agreed that within any system some reservations will be a better value than other reservations.

-Scott


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## Jan M. (Jun 14, 2018)

skotrla said:


> OK, let's try another approach.  I want to buy/rent 1M points worth of HICV reservations and 1M points worth Wyndham reservations (one time, not ownership).  Excluding guest fees for Wyndham VIP and guest fees and booking fees for a HICV Elite, what's a fair price to pay for each?  I can tell you that HICV points can be rented by Elite owners in quantity at $5/1, so typically HICV Elite owners are going to be in the $7-$9/1K range.  Should I expect to pay more or less for the Wyndham points?  The problem here is that there's not a lot of data in this area, so it's not clear to me that this is any less subjective than comparing resorts between systems.
> 
> -Scott



I know nothing about how HICV works so let me state that right up front. However I do know Wyndham. Each resort has its own point chart and they vary tremendously. As I just posted on another thread when a resort is brought into the system it comes in with a point chart that will never change. Older resorts have lower point charts and new or newer resorts have varying degrees of higher point charts. Now if you were to pick several locations you know you would want to stay at where both systems have resorts, say Orlando, Branson, Vegas, Myrtle Beach, Tennessee, etc. You pick a specific resort because Wyndham has more than one resort in all of these locations. Not sure if HICV does. Next look at how many points it would take to stay at each of the resorts you've chosen in both systems for however many vacations you will be taking a year. When you've come up with that figure you look at what it will likely cost to buy that number of points with low maintenance fees. Then you can take what would be your purchase price and the annual maintenance fees for that number of points in each system and say this one will be the better deal for me.

Now I'm going to throw in another variable. Say you stayed in Orlando and checked out both of the resorts on your list. What if say a year after you purchased based on that cost figure and what you saw of those resorts you realize Orlando can be a very expensive vacation if you go to any of the parks so you will only go there every other year or even every couple of years. But you will be going to Myrtle Beach every year and you find you really like the MB resort and the beach at that resort in the other system better. You can drive to MB so don't have the expense of flights and a rental car and your family likes hanging at the beach and resort so you aren't spending nearly as much money when you stay there. You could be like us who when our son when away to college found we could take a second beach vacation by ourselves in May before school let out or in September or October when schools were back and reservations were a lot less points than the peak summer weeks. In retrospect you would have gladly paid more to own where you want to go every year over where you will hopefully go depending on finances every other or couple of years. In this case you would be better off buying the system where you will be staying more frequently and renting from an owner in the other system, hopefully on a last minute deal, for the more sporadic stays in Orlando. Ask yourself if you are the type of people who when they go to Orlando are so busy at the parks, when they go to Vegas are pretty much just in their unit to sleep or when they are in Myrtle Beach are there for the beach? For a lot of them as long as their units meet certain requirements they don't ask more than that so being able to go as cheaply as possible is their priority. Then there are say the Hilton or Marriott timeshare owners who are convinced their system is the only one worth owning because their resorts are superior to the one resort they saw years ago with another system. And yes, I confess that we probably fall into that category because we still think that about Blue Green because we toured one of their resorts years ago.

Another thing to think about is anticipating future needs and expecting that they are likely to change. So many people buy a location they fall in love with. Their kids grow up and say we had great times going there but there are so many other places we want to go. And they remind you that they are just starting out in our careers so don't get nearly as much vacation time as you do. Or some family members can't afford to go or get the time off that everyone else can get so the family vacations start to fall apart. Which system to you see currently offering more resorts in locations you might conceivably visit in say the next 5-10 years and continuing to grow so you have more options in the years to come? It could be that for you the best choice is to worry about that when the time comes. And there is nothing wrong with that either.

Because I know so many people here on TUG understand exactly what I'm saying I like to say this. If anyone had ever told us not just when we first owned but even in the first 5 years we owned that we would own all that we do and go as much as we have I would have laughed. I would have said we will have to win the lottery because we don't have rich relatives who will die and leave us that kind of money. Many of us have been in situations where people ask us how we can afford go the places we go and take multiple vacations a year? The answer is always, we have a timeshare. They just look at you with "that look" because they "know" timeshares cost tens of thousand of dollars, are a scam and are worthless. They usually know someone who got screwed somehow or never uses their timeshare in Hawaii because flights are very expensive so are just wasting their money. You have come to know that means the person they know never learned to use what they have and/or they bought developer and later felt cheated. That is where you just walk away with joy in your heart because you know they spend more in their one big vacation a year than you spend in 3 or maybe even 4 vacations a year. That's when you know you've joined the Timeshare Addict Club and are proud of it!


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## skotrla (Jun 14, 2018)

Jan M. said:


> I know nothing about how HICV works so let me state that right up front. However I do know Wyndham. Each resort has its own point chart and they vary tremendously. As I just posted on another thread when a resort is brought into the system it comes in with a point chart that will never change. Older resorts have lower point charts and new or newer resorts have varying degrees of higher point charts. Now if you were to pick several locations you know you would want to stay at where both systems have resorts, say Orlando, Branson, Vegas, Myrtle Beach, Tennessee, etc. You pick a specific resort because Wyndham has more than one resort in all of these locations. Not sure if HICV does. Next look at how many points it would take to stay at each of the resorts you've chosen in both systems for however many vacations you will be taking a year. When you've come up with that figure you look at what it will likely cost to buy that number of points with low maintenance fees. Then you can take what would be your purchase price and the annual maintenance fees for that number of points in each system and say this one will be the better deal for me.
> 
> Now I'm going to throw in another variable. Say you stayed in Orlando and checked out both of the resorts on your list. What if say a year after you purchased based on that cost figure and what you saw of those resorts you realize Orlando can be a very expensive vacation if you go to any of the parks so you will only go there every other year or even every couple of years. But you will be going to Myrtle Beach every year and you find you really like the MB resort and the beach at that resort in the other system better. You can drive to MB so don't have the expense of flights and a rental car and your family likes hanging at the beach and resort so you aren't spending nearly as much money when you stay there. You could be like us who when our son when away to college found we could take a second beach vacation by ourselves in May before school let out or in September or October when schools were back and reservations were a lot less points than the peak summer weeks. In retrospect you would have gladly paid more to own where you want to go every year over where you will hopefully go depending on finances every other or couple of years. In this case you would be better off buying the system where you will be staying more frequently and renting from an owner in the other system, hopefully on a last minute deal, for the more sporadic stays in Orlando. Ask yourself if you are the type of people who when they go to Orlando are so busy at the parks, when they go to Vegas are pretty much just in their unit to sleep or when they are in Myrtle Beach are there for the beach? For a lot of them as long as their units meet certain requirements they don't ask more than that so being able to go as cheaply as possible is their priority. Then there are say the Hilton or Marriott timeshare owners who are convinced their system is the only one worth owning because their resorts are superior to the one resort they saw years ago with another system. And yes, I confess that we probably fall into that category because we still think that about Blue Green because we toured one of their resorts years ago.
> 
> ...



Have you seen the 500-line Wyndham spreadsheet I built from scratch?  I know all about each resort having it's own points!

What I'm looking for is a price to hypothetically "rent" 1M Wyndham points.  How much value I will get out of those points might impact I personally am willing to pay, but it won't necessarily directly impact how much they will sell for (in the style of renting I am talking about).

-Scott


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## bobbyoc23 (Jun 14, 2018)

skotrla said:


> Have you seen the 500-line Wyndham spreadsheet I built from scratch?  I know all about each resort having it's own points!
> 
> What I'm looking for is a price to hypothetically "rent" 1M Wyndham points.  How much value I will get out of those points might impact I personally am willing to pay, but it won't necessarily directly impact how much they will sell for (in the style of renting I am talking about).
> 
> -Scott



I have no direct experience renting points to turn a profit, so maybe I shouldn’t be answering this, but from what I gather the recent changes implemented by Wyndham has affected the profitability of renting points... and that was for VIP owners. Can resale, non-VIP owners actually turn a profit renting Wyndham points? Maybe, but I think someone else mentioned this in a previous post (Jan maybe?) - is it worth the hours spent coordinating the effort? Without VIP benefits, I seriously doubt it


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## ronparise (Jun 14, 2018)

skotrla said:


> OK, let's try another approach.  I want to buy/rent 1M points worth of HICV reservations and 1M points worth Wyndham reservations (one time, not ownership).  Excluding guest fees for Wyndham VIP and guest fees and booking fees for a HICV Elite, what's a fair price to pay for each?  I can tell you that HICV points can be rented by Elite owners in quantity at $5/1, so typically HICV Elite owners are going to be in the $7-$9/1K range.  Should I expect to pay more or less for the Wyndham points?  The problem here is that there's not a lot of data in this area, so it's not clear to me that this is any less subjective than comparing resorts between systems.
> 
> -Scott




again, I dont get it 

There are what?  100 wyndham resorts and 52 weeks a year..  there are then 5200 possible weeks to rent...so 5200 "fair prices"

I believe that a fair price (fair to the owner) is maintenance fees plus a little  and maintenance fees are not part of your spread sheet


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## Jan M. (Jun 14, 2018)

skotrla said:


> Have you seen the 500-line Wyndham spreadsheet I built from scratch?  I know all about each resort having it's own points!
> 
> What I'm looking for is a price to hypothetically "rent" 1M Wyndham points.  How much value I will get out of those points might impact I personally am willing to pay, but it won't necessarily directly impact how much they will sell for (in the style of renting I am talking about).
> 
> -Scott



Sorry, I should have made it clear that a lot of what I've posted is more to help other people. I think you have experience already being a timeshare owner that many people don't have even some who are owners too. A lot of people read threads like yours hoping to learn. For many people a spreadsheet might as well be written in Chinese for all they get out of it. Like you I'm a numbers person. Trying to get people who aren't to understand numbers is often a pretty hopeless task no matter how good a job you do laying it all out for them.

BTW your Wyndham spread sheet is excellent and very helpful. I love playing with numbers. I like to play around with figuring out how many weeks we could stay with our points, where we could stay and what time of year we could stay at the cheapest point resorts that wouldn't have horrible off season weather. Now that my husband finally retired at age 67.5 we can do things like go for 2-4 months at a time. There are tuggers who have or are living out of the timeshares full time. That is another what if we wanted to do that number game.


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## skotrla (Jun 14, 2018)

ronparise said:


> again, I dont get it
> 
> There are what?  100 wyndham resorts and 52 weeks a year..  there are then 5200 possible weeks to rent...so 5200 "fair prices"
> 
> I believe that a fair price (fair to the owner) is maintenance fees plus a little  and maintenance fees are not part of your spread sheet



I'm not asking about 5200 possible weeks (I think it's actually much higher since there are 5-10 different kinds of units at each resort and 5-10 partial stays at each resort, which gets you to 250K possible stays) - I'm just asking about raw points for reservations that have not been booked yet.

-Scott


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## skotrla (Jun 14, 2018)

Jan M. said:


> Sorry, I should have made it clear that a lot of what I've posted is more to help other people. I think you have experience already being a timeshare owner that many people don't have even some who are owners too. A lot of people read threads like yours hoping to learn. For many people a spreadsheet might as well be written in Chinese for all they get out of it. Like you I'm a numbers person. Trying to get people who aren't to understand numbers is often a pretty hopeless task no matter how good a job you do laying it all out for them.
> 
> BTW your Wyndham spread sheet is excellent and very helpful. I love playing with numbers. I like to play around with figuring out how many weeks we could stay with our points, where we could stay and what time of year we could stay at the cheapest point resorts that wouldn't have horrible off season weather. Now that my husband finally retired at age 67.5 we can do things like go for 2-4 months at a time. There are tuggers who have or are living out of the timeshares full time. That is another what if we wanted to do that number game.



Glad you find it useful!

-Scott


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## Jan M. (Jun 14, 2018)

skotrla said:


> Glad you find it useful!



I really appreciate all the work you put into this. I think you did an excellent job a laying it out in a way that is easy to understand. I downloaded it because I know I will find it very useful to have for quick reference. If OP are reading this thread I highly recommend they save it too.


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## schoolmarm (Jun 14, 2018)

It's a good chart if you want to know how many points are needed to book a unit, but it doesn't include all the resorts, but it is a valuable chart if you are looking to use up a certain number of points. 

Now for VALUE, you need to know the MFs for the resort you own OR CWA.  These can range from $2.90 ish to the low $3 ish per 1000 points to $9-12 per 1000 points.  CWA is about $5.75ish. 

The value lays in the MFs, not in the number of points needed to book a resort.  My Bali Hai is in the low-mid $3/1000 points.  For a 200,000 point reservation, I'm "spending" about $650-$700 and this is the value.  If someone owns CWA, they are spending about $1150, and this is the value.  If you own a $11/1000 (maybe Fairfield Glade?) you would be spending $2200 for this same reservation and that is the value. These three owners are all booking the same unit from a random place on your spreadsheet.  Their values range from $650-$2200.  This is one reason why low MF resorts are "more valuable" and can sometimes cost a bit more than other resorts when buying resale. 

The other wrench in the "value" is that VIP owners CAN get an upgrade (if the system is working) to a bigger unit, thus stretching their value.  The last wrench is that VIP owners can book units at a 25%-50% discount during the express period (90 days out), thus really stretching their value.  Last year before the new rules, VIP owners would often get BOTH of these discounts, putting some value on VIP. Now these discounts and upgrades are not always happening.


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## Nickiez187 (Jun 14, 2018)

Wow!  I have been looking for information like this everywhere!  THANK YOU SO MUCH for taking the time to do this.  I'm new to all of this.  Thinking about purchasing a resale Wyndham timeshare and this is VERY helpful.  Thank you again!!

Nicole


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## skotrla (Jun 14, 2018)

schoolmarm said:


> It's a good chart if you want to know how many points are needed to book a unit, but it doesn't include all the resorts, but it is a valuable chart if you are looking to use up a certain number of points.
> 
> Now for VALUE, you need to know the MFs for the resort you own OR CWA.  These can range from $2.90 ish to the low $3 ish per 1000 points to $9-12 per 1000 points.  CWA is about $5.75ish.
> 
> ...



Yes, maintenance is key in all systems.  Points gives you relative value - no matter what your personal maintenance costs are, a 200K unit costs twice as much to book at a 100K unit.

Let me know which resorts I am missing and I will add them - this covers p. 10-211 of the guide.  I did not include Club Pass or Affiliate Resorts since those resorts are more like exchanges with no VIP benefits.  I do see that I missed St. Thomas at the end, so I will add that.

-Scott


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## skotrla (Jun 14, 2018)

Nickiez187 said:


> Wow!  I have been looking for information like this everywhere!  THANK YOU SO MUCH for taking the time to do this.  I'm new to all of this.  Thinking about purchasing a resale Wyndham timeshare and this is VERY helpful.  Thank you again!!
> 
> Nicole


Glad to help - given all of the wonderful tools out there, I was surprised as well.

-Scott


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## schoolmarm (Jun 14, 2018)

Did you put Edisto in with a different name?  National Harbor and Alexandria are in a slot for "DC" and not in the states where they exist<--this actually makes sense, but it is easy to miss them.   Thanks for adding St. Thomas.  

Change Avenue Plaza to LA (not IL). 
Where is Austin?  It's new!  Galveston and Boston and that fancy pants hotel in the Carolinas and Pittsburgh are affiliates and bookable with timeshare points. 

The affiliate resorts (all of Mexico and Australia/New Zealand etc.) are not exchanges, but are limited in number of units available.  The same is true of Chicago (I think only 42 units are timeshare). Brazil and Margaritaville resorts are also new. 

Club Pass IS an exchange to Worldmark Resorts, HOWEVER, many of the Worldmark resorts are also affiliates--with as few as 2 units available. So technically, they are also bookable using regular Wyndham points. You have some of them, like Angel, in your spreadsheet.

The point value doesn't necessarily mean that the unit is Bigger/Nicer/more valuable.  It just means that it is in a newer resort.  Alexandria is a prime location and is very few points in January. And for some strange reason, Bonnet Creek is not PRIME season during most Thanksgiving weeks--giving that week a bigger bang for the buck. Also what Wyndham owners know or need to know is that a day Sunday-Thursday is typically 1/2 the number of points as a Friday or Saturday. Those who want to stretch points will save if they have more "midweek" days than Fridays or Saturdays.  I love the flexibility of NOT having to take a full week, as I have a church job and never can stay a Saturday night.


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## WyndhamBarter (Jun 15, 2018)

schoolmarm said:


> ...Boston...



FWIW - I've checked Wyndham Boston Beacon Hill a few times since it came online.  It always seems to have pretty limited availability, but more importantly:

A five-night stay in a Hotel Room 11/11-11/16 is currently available for 591,000 points.  For most of us that's *over* $600/night in MF payments. For a Hotel Room.  Admittedly, it's probably a great location - but NYC Midtown 45 is currently showing the same 5 nights in a 1 BR Presidential for 330,000 points!!

Oh, and the Boston hotel website shows hotel rooms available for those five nights for about $300/night.

It seems clear to me that selling these rooms for WVO points is some MBA's implementation of the "never give a sucker an even break" philosophy.


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## ronparise (Jun 15, 2018)

So do i have this right?

you have taken all the info in the various points charts and put it in one chart. good job  and it helps with a question Ive tried to answer in the past

I used to enjoy messing with the numbers to figure out whether a person could live in a wyndham timeshare full time on a social security income, your chart would help with that question....I see several studios at about 3 million points per year.. whats missing is the maintenance fees... so lets assume $5/1000  So thats  $15000/yr   ($1250/mo)  so the answer is yes,  a couple probably could, but which resorts do I buy to get that low mf.?.. The chart is no help here and Id like to live somewhere with  good public transportation... again the chart dosent help me

To Jans question.. where are the cheaper resorts that have decent weather in their off season.... I dont see weather data here either .. I dont see how this answers her question without it

As I see it, this chart takes data already presented in the directory and puts it on one page..The only thing new is the total points for the year

Interesting? yes;   Fun to play with?  sure;  useful?  I still dont see it


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## Cyrus24 (Jun 15, 2018)

I'm looking forward to seeing/downloading the updated version.  From a vacation research/planning standpoint, it's a great tool.  Still need the hideous website for dealing with actual availability.


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## MaryBella7 (Jun 15, 2018)

skotrla said:


> Have you seen the 500-line Wyndham spreadsheet I built from scratch?  I know all about each resort having it's own points!
> 
> What I'm looking for is a price to hypothetically "rent" 1M Wyndham points.  How much value I will get out of those points might impact I personally am willing to pay, but it won't necessarily directly impact how much they will sell for (in the style of renting I am talking about).
> 
> -Scott



There is no hypothetically renting 1M points. Every resort is different, and will rent differently.  A 4th of July rental in a place that would be 200,000 points at the beach is going to cost you a heck of a lot more than a 4th of July rental in another location that may cost the same # of points. Demand for a location and how much time in advance you know where you want to go are pretty important. You also seem to be under the impression that people will rent for their cost - perhaps low demand places, but you aren't likely getting week 52 at a ski resort at cost.

For example, even in Myrtle Beach. There are multiple resorts, and they have different costs. If you want Seawatch in the summer, it will cost you 203,000 for a 2 BR.  If you stay at Ocean Boulevard, a 2 bedroom will range from 300,000 to 425,000.  People who own at each pay diff maintenance fees per point. Most will tell you that it is much more difficult to get a reservation at Seawatch than Ocean Boulevard, so even though the point cost is less, the rental would likely be more $/point than an Ocean Boulevard.  There is a lot more that needs to be considered beyond just numeric data. Ron's Leonard/Sheldon analogy is a good one. Are you gathering the data because it interests you, or do you want to solve a problem/get advice. The pure numeric  data is only really useful if you are interested, but it isn't going to give you an answer about whether owning or renting is better for YOU.  You need to know where and when you want to go and how easy/difficult it is to be there when you want to be there - without that factored in, the numbers are meaningless.

If you want a high demand resort at a high demand time (NO Mardi Gras, summer at Glacier Canyon, etc.), you will be better off owning if you don't want to pay a premium price for rental.  If you want to stay off season at less demand resorts, you may be better off renting.


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## skotrla (Jun 15, 2018)

schoolmarm said:


> Did you put Edisto in with a different name?  National Harbor and Alexandria are in a slot for "DC" and not in the states where they exist<--this actually makes sense, but it is easy to miss them.   Thanks for adding St. Thomas.
> 
> Change Avenue Plaza to LA (not IL).
> Where is Austin?  It's new!  Galveston and Boston and that fancy pants hotel in the Carolinas and Pittsburgh are affiliates and bookable with timeshare points.
> ...



I changed the DC ones - I was wondering why they were out of place.  Fixed Avenue Plaza.  Ocean Ridge and King Cotton Villas are in Edisto.

If you send links to points for any new resorts, I'll add them. 

I'm only including resorts that are fully part of the program and at which you can use VIP benefits - if someone wants to create a spreadsheet with the affiliates, I can link to it or add it to mine.  Angels Camp is listed as both Club Wyndham (p.26) and Cub Pass (p.221).

Newer = more valuable/higher demand/higher points

-Scott


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## skotrla (Jun 15, 2018)

ronparise said:


> So do i have this right?
> 
> you have taken all the info in the various points charts and put it in one chart. good job  and it helps with a question Ive tried to answer in the past
> 
> ...



Maintenance costs change every year and there is no single source.  You are correct that this just repackages what's in the guide over 200 pages into 1 500-line spreadsheet.  If someone has a list of 2018 maintenance costs for all 500 lines of the spreadsheet (plus the variations that exist within a single line for different phases of the same resort with the same points values), then I will be happy to add it.

-Scott


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## skotrla (Jun 15, 2018)

MaryBella7 said:


> There is no hypothetically renting 1M points. Every resort is different, and will rent differently.  A 4th of July rental in a place that would be 200,000 points at the beach is going to cost you a heck of a lot more than a 4th of July rental in another location that may cost the same # of points. Demand for a location and how much time in advance you know where you want to go are pretty important. You also seem to be under the impression that people will rent for their cost - perhaps low demand places, but you aren't likely getting week 52 at a ski resort at cost.
> 
> For example, even in Myrtle Beach. There are multiple resorts, and they have different costs. If you want Seawatch in the summer, it will cost you 203,000 for a 2 BR.  If you stay at Ocean Boulevard, a 2 bedroom will range from 300,000 to 425,000.  People who own at each pay diff maintenance fees per point. Most will tell you that it is much more difficult to get a reservation at Seawatch than Ocean Boulevard, so even though the point cost is less, the rental would likely be more $/point than an Ocean Boulevard.  There is a lot more that needs to be considered beyond just numeric data. Ron's Leonard/Sheldon analogy is a good one. Are you gathering the data because it interests you, or do you want to solve a problem/get advice. The pure numeric  data is only really useful if you are interested, but it isn't going to give you an answer about whether owning or renting is better for YOU.  You need to know where and when you want to go and how easy/difficult it is to be there when you want to be there - without that factored in, the numbers are meaningless.
> 
> If you want a high demand resort at a high demand time (NO Mardi Gras, summer at Glacier Canyon, etc.), you will be better off owning if you don't want to pay a premium price for rental.  If you want to stay off season at less demand resorts, you may be better off renting.



I have quotes on bulk renting 1M points worth of reservations in multiple systems - the hypothetically is me actually renting them.  When someone rents points, they tell someone to make a reservation (availability will vary) - typically this is not ARP, since ARP point cost will vary with maintenance of the resort. 

When someone make a high demand reservation (usually in ARP), they are making a bet that they will be able to rent out the week for more than they would have been able to bulk rent out the points and they will typically change the pricing over time - typically cancelling the reservation if they are unable to make a premium above what the bulk points were worth.

These are different rental models.

-Scott


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## MaryBella7 (Jun 15, 2018)

skotrla said:


> I have quotes on bulk renting 1M points worth of reservations in multiple systems - the hypothetically is me actually renting them.  When someone rents points, they tell someone to make a reservation (availability will vary) - typically this is not ARP, since, ARP points will vary with maintenance of the resort.
> 
> When someone make a high demand reservation (usually in ARP), they are making a bet that they will be able to rent out the week for more than they would have been able to bulk rent out the points and they will typically change the pricing over time - typically cancelling the reservation if they are unable to make a premium above what the bulk points were worth.
> 
> ...


Gotcha. I thought you were looking to rent for yourself.  I don't think that the changes Wyndham has made will make it easy to turn a profit if that is any help to you.


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## ronparise (Jun 15, 2018)

skotrla said:


> I have quotes on bulk renting 1M points worth of reservations in multiple systems - the hypothetically is me actually renting them.  When someone rents points, they tell someone to make a reservation (availability will vary) - typically this is not ARP, since, ARP points will vary with maintenance of the resort.
> 
> When someone make a high demand reservation (usually in ARP), they are making a bet that they will be able to rent out the week for more than they would have been able to bulk rent out the points and they will typically change the pricing over time - typically cancelling the reservation if they are unable to make a premium above what the bulk points were worth.
> 
> ...




so let me restate what I think I heard.... 

There are two ways to do rentals 

1) make high value reservations  (on spec) and then look for your customer (advertise) to pay market rates.  The possibility exists that you the market is not enough to cover your fees, in which case you cancel 

and 

2)  make reservations on demand or reservations to order for your customer, charging a "fair price" for your points



Now if I understand you correctly, you are building spread sheets for various timeshare systems to help folks that might want to rent.    I just dont see how what you have done helps either side of the transaction



Heres my problem:  


a million worldmark credits will buy you two years  in a studio at avenue plaza
a million wyndham points will buy you 8 weeks in a wyndham studio at avenue plaza

a week at Avenue plaza will cost 9000 worldmark credits vs 126000 wyndham points 

This is info I could get from your spreadsheets (if you had one for Worldmark) but I fail to see how it helps me decide whether to approach a wyndham owner or a worldmark owner to rent from. Neither  does it help an owner to know how to price his points for rent

Now I happen to know what it costs to own both these systems so I would know which owner is making the most off me... but I dont care... all I know is that I want the reservation


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## skotrla (Jun 15, 2018)

Added resort check-in days for Prime reservations made >3 months out (column E).

-Scott


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## skotrla (Jun 15, 2018)

ronparise said:


> so let me restate what I think I heard....
> 
> There are two ways to do rentals
> 
> ...



I built the spreadsheet to be able to easily tell how much a a year in one resort compares to one year in another resort in terms of Wyndham points and how much this varies across the whole Wyndham club.  My goal is to figure out how to use this information to determine the relative value of points in different systems (HICV for me, but if we collectively come up with an algorithm, it would be extensible across other systems).  

The other approach is just to use bulk rental costs (if Wyndham bulk rental points costs 80% of HICV bulk rental points, then Wyndham points are 80% less valuable than HICV points).

Determining bulk point rental rates allows you to determine the owner cost of a specific reservation (based on points for the stay), which can be used for personal or rental purposes to decide whether a given reservation is worth making as an owner in one system vs. another or whether hotels or whether paying cash is better.

I do the same thing with hotel points - I have 100K IHG poiints, but I often use Priceline instead of the IHG points because Priceline is a better deal for a given property.  With hotel points it's easier because there are no ownership complexities and the systems regularly sell bulk points at a consistent discounted rate.  Some people treat points like free money, but every point I own in every program has a value and an opportunity cost if you waste it on a high point low value reservation.

-Scott


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## skotrla (Jun 15, 2018)

Next thing I'm working on is how many each room sleeps, how many bathrooms, and weekend points - first 6 resorts done...

-Scott


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## Nomad34 (Jun 15, 2018)

Fairfield started in 1966- 1991 as weeks. 1992 to present all are points with conversions to points at a price. With the company split there are many things yet to come in order to do a true comparison.


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## MaryBella7 (Jun 15, 2018)

ronparise said:


> Are you a Leonard or Sheldon.



He's a Sheldon.


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## WyndhamBarter (Jun 15, 2018)

skotrla said:


> If you send links to points for any new resorts, I'll add them.



Here's the points chart for the new Wyndham Austin location.  We stayed 5 nights
in April - it's a great new urban location.

https://www.myclubwyndham.com/resources/images/R000000000283/R000000000283_viewchart.pdf


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## ronparise (Jun 15, 2018)

MaryBella7 said:


> He's a Sheldon.


I think so too. Lots of data and lots of math. But not  of any practical use. 




skotrla said:


> I built the spreadsheet to be able to easily tell how much a a year in one resort compares to one year in another resort in terms of Wyndham points and how much this varies across the whole Wyndham club.  My goal is to figure out how to use this information to determine the relative value of points in different systems (HICV for me, but if we collectively come up with an algorithm, it would be extensible across other systems).
> 
> The other approach is just to use bulk rental costs (if Wyndham bulk rental points costs 80% of HICV bulk rental points, then Wyndham points are 80% less valuable than HICV points).
> 
> ...





I understand the numbers, you lose me with your explanations.

I can tell you the bulk rental rates for Wyndham (at least I can tell you what the rate was) and it has nothing to do with the information in your chart.

There was an outfit that did bulk point rentals. He was a middle man. He rented Wyndham points from folks like me that owned more than what we were using and he sold “memberships” of various sizes  that entitled the his members to make reservations

He paid his “landlords” (points owners) $6/1000 points and he charged his members a membership fee and  $6/ 1000 points used

So he paid my maintenance fees plus a little and his members got nearly all their reservations at a 50% discount. He also made spec reservations in my accounts and rented them at market prices

Fair price for me was maintenance fees plus a little 0r $6/1000. And fair price for his members was $6/1000 as long as they got reservations at half price.  And he kept the membership fee

As far as his rental customers went; fair price was market price


Here’s the thing, we didn’t need your spreadsheets to make our pricing decisions


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## Pathways (Jun 15, 2018)

MaryBella7 said:


> He's a Sheldon.





ronparise said:


> I think so too. Lots of data and lots of math. But not  of any practical use.



I think Leonard.  I figured out yesterday what he's doing this for (OK, I'm 95% sure)- and I wish him good luck with it!


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## skotrla (Jun 15, 2018)

ronparise said:


> I think so too. Lots of data and lots of math. But not  of any practical use.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



$6/1K seems to be the going rate for Wndham and $8 seems to be the going rate for HICV.  That put's Wyndham point values at about 75% of HICV point values, which is the initial number I came up with in the spreadsheet  

As an HICV owner, I don't buy units with maintenance above $6 - this means as a prospective Wyndham owner, I shouldn't buy units with maintenance above $4.50 (excluding program fee).

If you don't use the club guide, you wouldn't use the spreadsheet.  I find myself regularly looking up point values in club guides, and so a 500-line spreadsheet is faster than a 300 page book.

Using the $6 guidance, I can pull up the 1BR units in HI and see that the median prime week is 231K points - 4 nights during the week is about 48% of that, or about 111K points, which comes to a guest rate of $765 - that's useful information to me.  2BR is 156K points and $1035 cost.

-Scott


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## skotrla (Jun 15, 2018)

WyndhamBarter said:


> Here's the points chart for the new Wyndham Austin location.  We stayed 5 nights
> in April - it's a great new urban location.
> 
> https://www.myclubwyndham.com/resources/images/R000000000283/R000000000283_viewchart.pdf
> ...



Added!

-Scott


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## Railman83 (Jun 15, 2018)

I’ve given up on this thread.   Some people cannot seem to accept there is no grand unified field theory for Timeshare point system valuation that holds up for all weeks at all resorts.

But keep churning out spreadsheets.


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## skotrla (Jun 15, 2018)

Railman83 said:


> I’ve given up on this thread.   Some people cannot seem to accept there is no grand unified field theory for Timeshare point system valuation that holds up for all weeks at all resorts.
> 
> But keep churning out spreadsheets.


Agreed. No individual system is 100% consistent across all resorts and weeks -  such a system would have separate point values for every unit for every night of the year. My thought is that the average across systems could possibly be compared in a useful way that would be just as accurate as trying to compare resorts within a system. 

-Scott


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## skotrla (Jun 16, 2018)

Finished adding weekend point values - the unit with the highest weekend point cost is the Studio at Branson at the Falls, where weekend nights are 24.2% of a week vs. an average of 20.6% across all resorts.  Highest weekend point value for a specific season in a specific unit is Shawnee Village where Quiet in a 2BR-D and High in a 1BR each run 26.2%.  

I also labeled all of the Presidential units as Pres 2BR instead of 2BR-P so that you can more easily view statistics just for Presidential units.  The average of the cheapest 2BR unit at each resort is 9.2M annual points vs. the average of the cheapest Pres 2BR unit at each resort is 18.3M annual points. 

-Scott


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## skotrla (Jun 19, 2018)

Added new resorts from the 2018-2019 guide.

-Scott


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## Avislo (Jun 19, 2018)

Thanks.


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## skotrla (Jun 27, 2018)

Updated file to include regions in each state and links to the maps the regions are based on.

-Scott


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## skotrla (Jul 1, 2018)

I added the Wyndham and HICV resorts from the attached RCI points guide to the RCI tabs of the Wyndham and HICV consolidated points spreadsheets.

https://www.rci.com/static/docs/en_US/points-grid.pdf

I then added the annual RCI point totals next to the annual Wyndham and HICV point totals and compared the totals against all units that had RCI point values and just the cheapest 2BR unit from each resort that I was using previously (there was only a 3% difference - the numbers below are just the 2BRs, which work out slightly better for Wyndham).

Here are the results:

RCI: Wyndham = 1:3.34
RCI: HICV = 1:2.37

which makes

Wyndham:HICV = 3.34:2.37 = 1:0.71

Prior to finding this RCI Rosetta stone, I used median 2BR points values in Florida to determine that the median Florida properties were Orange Lake for HICV (7.2M) and Bonnet Creek/Sea Garden for Wyndham (9.1M) and was trying to determine whether the points difference was due to HICV points being more valuable than Wyndham points or the median Wyndham resort being valued higher than the median HICV resort.  The annual RCI point values for these properties are 3.6M for HICV and 3.15M for Wyndham, which suggests that the HICV points are worth even more than Wyndham points than my initial analysis showed due to the median HICV resort being valued higher than the median Wyndham resort.  That makes the scaled Wyndham point values for these properties 10.4M, and the ratio 1:0.69, which is very close to the program-wide numbers above.

This is extensible to other programs that have RCI point values in the chart above if anyone is interested in putting them into a spreadsheet.

I only buy HICV points units with maintenance in the $5-$6 - this makes the comparable range of Wyndham units $3.55-$4.26, which are pretty tough to find.

-Scott


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## mark61360 (May 7, 2019)

Scott

Do you have a spreadsheet that shows the dollar value of points, at each of the major time share companies?

Mark



skotrla said:


> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Qg7jd4yPldw-HPWaPkVk1E68KsETwoIuyBFnJPulkgw/edit?usp=sharing
> 
> I took the annual points for the cheapest 2BR at each resort to come up with a median 2BR cost of 8.2M points (158K/week).
> 
> ...


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