# Gibraltar



## travelplanner70 (Jul 23, 2009)

I will be traveling from Seville to Marbella in August.  Looking over the routes that Google or other mapping sites take me, I can either go via Jerez then Gibralter to Marbella OR go via Ronda to Marbella.  We are planning to visit both ROnda and Gibralter anyway.  Which route do you think I should take?  I will be traveling in the daytime.  

My thought was to go the Gibraltar route, stop there for an hour or so, and then continue onto Marbella.  In Gibralter should I take the cable car up the rock?  Should I also tour the town, or is there not much there? We would be traveling on a Sunday. It sounds like Gibraltar does not have much open on Sunday.

If I go through Ronda, I would think I would want to tour longer than an hour or so.  That would make the trip from Seville to Marbella a bit too long for me.

What are your thoughts?

Thanks for your help.


----------



## JoeMid (Jul 23, 2009)

I was in Marbella area earlier this month.

I did day trips to everything you mentioned.  One day to Ronda, Seville, Jerez and driving back via autoroute past Gibraltar.  One day to Gibraltar.

Ronda was well worth the couple/few hours spent at the Bull Ring/Museum and walking around town.  Seville was a quick stop to see the cathedral (and get a haircut, hehe, that's all doc).  Jerez for a sherry tour, make sure you decide which one and book ahead of time, some were only open in am, we did Tio Pepe last tour at the end of the day.

Gibraltar can be very crowded.  Lots of Spanish doing duty free shopping as there's no VAT in Gibraltar.  Not much parking.  We parked on the main road in Linea and walked across, you need your passport even though it's EU but they didn't even open them.  We took the taxi tour which was easier than navigating to cable car etc.

Also took a tour to Tangier, I'd done it myself in the past and decided I didn't want the hassle in the Tijuana of Morocco.


----------



## Keitht (Jul 23, 2009)

An hour isn't enough time for Gibraltar and certainly isn't enough time for Ronda.  If you visit Gibraltar you are best advised to park in La Linea and then walk across to Gib.  If you drive you can spend a long time in the queues both in and out.  There is a lot of history in Gibraltar but the town itself is nothing to write home about.


----------



## hibbeln (Jul 23, 2009)

This is what we did to visit Gibraltar (and it worked well for us).  We drove there and parked on the Spanish side and walked across the border and caught a bus that took us to the base of the cable car (get the Rick Steve's Spain book and it will tell you EXACTLY where to park, which bus to catch, etc.  It makes it very easy.)  We took the cable car up, then walked down, seeing the sights on the way.  Once we were back down to the bottom (we kept our eye on the cable car line as we walked down "The Rock" to keep our bearings) we caught the bus back to the border.  We had time to visit Tarifa that day also (cute walled city, great views of the strait and Morocco).
There is actually quite a bit to see on "The Rock", didn't feel like there was so much compelling in the town.  Because seeing the sights naturally takes you downhill, it would be QUITE a climb back UPHILL to get to the cable car station if you want to ride it back down (that's why we chose to walk downhill with 2 young kids and grandma.....trust me, it was easier).  Wear good walking shoes and take along something to eat as food is few and far between and overpriced.  Plus it's fun to see the apes come running when you pull out a packet of cookies or chips!!!     We were there in February and didn't find any crowds at all.

Ronda I thought would be a quick-in-and-out town and instead we spent most of the day there.  We went first PAST Ronda to the Cueva de la Pileta to see the cave paintings (a complete highlight of our trip!  Again, read the details in the Rick Steve's Spain guidebook and follow the hours of operation carefully because they're not kidding about when they close!).  Then we went to Ronda and saw the bullring and the gorge (oh my gosh that gorge!  It is sooooooo scary.).  Just imagine an earthquake as you look at the houses on the side of the gorge.  Then we wandered down the old side of town along the city walls until we reached the "bottom" of the town at the lowest bridge, then walked back up up up up up to the top of the gorge again.  It was a fun day of exploring!  I bet this town can get pretty crowded in the high season, but again we were there in February and had it all to ourselves.


----------



## jerseyfinn (Jul 23, 2009)

I myself see a Sevilla to Marbella drive day pretty much being an itinerary by itself ( without stops in Ronda or Gibraltar on that particular day ). That said, a stop in *Jerez *during your transition day drive would not be such a bad idea to create a more leisurely half driving, half sight seeing day.

If you elect to drive the Sevilla-Jerez-Marbella route, the *AP-4* toll road is a fast way to reach Jerez where you could pass some nice time looking around at leisure before continuing on to Marbella. From Jerez you would want to take the *A380 *( a good highway, but not as swift as the toll road ) towards *Algeciras*, a 100 km drive, where you take *A7 *towards *Estepona *and either continue on A-7  which follows the coast to Marbella, or you could hop on the *AP7 *toll road which will skirt past Estepona and drop you directly into Marbella. Alternatively, you could ride the coast road to Estepona and jump onto AP7 in Estepona to get to Marbella. Depending upon your arrival hour in Marbella, I would lean towards the *AP7 *at some point as there is *extensive *road construction in *San Pedro Alcantara *( which is all of 6  km from Marbella ). It can be quite a traffic bottleneck at the moment for east-bound drivers.

Alterntively, If you prefer to stay in the mountains all the way from Sevilla to Marbella, I'd still suggest gliding south down *AP4 *toll road, taking *A382 *towards *Arcos de la Frontera*. You have a couple of choices here as you could drive straight into the mountains at Arcos onto *A372 *on a smaller, but still very drivable mountain road and set your own leisure driving pace towards *Grazalema*, stopping at leisure when something hits your eye. You could stop in Grazalema as it has lots to see. You continue east on A372 until you reach *A 376 *and turn south towards *Ronda*. I myself see Ronda as a place where one wants to spend at least 1/2 day exploring as it's a big town with so much to experience. But if you still have wind in your sails, you could pause in Ronda and come back another day. In any case, you drive south from Ronda on A376 some 50 km until you get to the AP7 toll road and proceed to Marbella ( if you continue south from here, you will hit that construction jam in San Pedro).

I mention an alternative drive route. This would be at Arcos where you continue on A382 towards *Bornos/Villamartin/* and finally to *Algodonales* where the road becomes A376. The difference here is that you remain on a larger road and skirt north of the other route before dropping down upon Ronda. This itinerary might affort you more time in Ronda if you so wish.

Gibraltar itself is a 1/2 day adventure ( or longer if you wish ) & as Keitht mentions, it's best to walk across and consider the taxi tour. FYI there are Neolithic cave paintings just north of Ronda as well as a Roman aqueduct to the east. Be sure to allow yourself a good Ronda day.

Enjoy your stay in Marbella environs. We just got back and had a great time. The good news is we're returing in the Fall with a friend.

Barry

PS: at some point during your stay, be sure to pick up a good Andalucía map in Sevilla etc ( one of those 1:200,000 scale maps by GeoCenter or Michlin). Those maps have great detail and take the anxiety out of picking a path through those beautiful mountain ranges.


----------



## Jimster (Jul 23, 2009)

*good advice*

This is all good advice but this topic has been beaten to death in the last year.  Do a search and you will find 20 or 30 other tuggers jumping in on the discussion.


----------



## ecwinch (Jul 23, 2009)

travelplanner70 said:


> I will be traveling from Seville to Marbella in August.  Looking over the routes that Google or other mapping sites take me, I can either go via Jerez then Gibralter to Marbella OR go via Ronda to Marbella.  We are planning to visit both ROnda and Gibralter anyway.  Which route do you think I should take?  I will be traveling in the daytime.
> 
> My thought was to go the Gibraltar route, stop there for an hour or so, and then continue onto Marbella.  In Gibralter should I take the cable car up the rock?  Should I also tour the town, or is there not much there? We would be traveling on a Sunday. It sounds like Gibraltar does not have much open on Sunday.
> 
> ...



As others have said, you cannot do either location justice in just an hour. Both need at least a half-day, if not the better part of a full day. For Gibralter, a good part of your time would be spent navigating traffic on the Spanish side, parking, and walking across. 

Due to the extremely windy mountain road between Ronda and Marbella, I would not recommend that route. 

If your schedule does not permit you to extend your visits at these locations, my best suggestion would be to take the road toward Gibralter and take pictures of the Rock from a distance. It looks just like the Prudential commercials - very scenic rising up from the Med.


----------



## Keitht (Jul 24, 2009)

ecwinch said:


> Due to the extremely windy mountain road between Ronda and Marbella, I would not recommend that route.



If you're used to driving on the right then the Ronda to Marbella road shouldn't be a problem.  It does have plenty of bends but it is a pretty good quality road all the same.  Coaches and lorries manage the road OK and I've never had a problem with it.


----------



## Jimster (Jul 24, 2009)

*road*

Likewise- no problems.  Be sure to look behind you and get a classic glimpse of Gibraltar.  See it- that's enough.  No need to go there.


----------



## Keitht (Jul 24, 2009)

Jimster said:


> Gibraltar.  See it- that's enough.  No need to go there.



I find that sentiment hard to disagree with.  It's one of those places that holds a fascination but for me there are many places where time can be better spent.  If military history is your bag then it is definitely worth visiting, if not......


----------



## jerseyfinn (Jul 25, 2009)

Jimster said:


> This is all good advice but this topic has been beaten to death in the last year.  Do a search and you will find 20 or 30 other tuggers jumping in on the discussion.



Jimster, thanks for the "optimistic"    outlook on life. 

BBS searches are often only as good as the search terms that one plugs in, and even then they often produce inconlusive results -- not to say that a search is not a good idea, but I myself don't waste too much time if I can't find what I looking for after a quick search. So I'm not gonna castigate the OP for an earnest querey here along with the ernest responses from those willing to overlook the search paradigm.

Additionally, life is not static, such as the present road construction in *San Pedro* which is gonna be there for quite some time while they construct a bypass from the highway to Ronda. Someone has got to post a relevant querey in order for that info to be put forward -- though yes, even that info will now show up if one performs a search ( with the proper terms of course ).




Keitht said:


> I find that sentiment hard to disagree with.  It's one of those places that holds a fascination but for me there are many places where time can be better spent.  If military history is your bag then it is definitely worth visiting, if not......



I agree Keitht. We're gonna get there on one of our visits, but it's not high on our priority list.  It's still an intereting place, but there's so many things in the immediate region which are unique/interesting & define the Andalucían experience that I'd suggest that a visitor with limited time alocate their time to those things while creating a reason to come back to Costa del Sol for another visit. We actually got as far as missing the parking lot and getting stuck in a queue to drive into Gibraltar by mistake. It takes 20 minutes for me to get out of that queue, & by that time my temperment was to head for the hills which is what we did with that afternoon. Life takes wierd turns sometimes.  

Barry


----------



## travelplanner70 (Jul 28, 2009)

Thank you all for your help.


----------



## Jimster (Jul 30, 2009)

*searches*



jerseyfinn said:


> Jimster, thanks for the "optimistic"    outlook on life.
> 
> BBS searches are often only as good as the search terms that one plugs in, and even then they often produce inconlusive results -- not to say that a search is not a good idea, but I myself don't waste too much time if I can't find what I looking for after a quick search. So I'm not gonna castigate the OP for an earnest querey here along with the ernest responses from those willing to overlook the search paradigm.
> 
> ...



Really, how hard is it to search "Gibraltar". There was also at least one "Gibraltar" visable from the screen in that category at the time.  Now I know that people on FT can be real jerks sometimes, but the one thing they always want is people to use a bit of initiative themselves before asking others.  I mean I respond to posts to help people, but when you ask people to respond to the same thing time and time again and when it only takes seconds to find the info by searching, who has a "pessimistic" view on life?


----------



## Keitht (Jul 30, 2009)

jerseyfinn said:


> We actually got as far as missing the parking lot and getting stuck in a queue to drive into Gibraltar by mistake. It takes 20 minutes for me to get out of that queue
> 
> Barry



I did exactly the same thing in missing the parking lots and joining the queue for Gib.  I was fortunate though that there was a gap in the barrier between that Q and the lane I should have been in so I managed to squeeze through and park.


----------



## ecwinch (Jul 30, 2009)

Keitht said:


> If you're used to driving on the right then the Ronda to Marbella road shouldn't be a problem.  It does have plenty of bends but it is a pretty good quality road all the same.  Coaches and lorries manage the road OK and I've never had a problem with it.



I was more thinking of speed and time. If you get stuck behind a lorrie, it can be slow going on that road.

Vs, the other route which has more highway/motorway quality roads.


----------



## ecwinch (Jul 30, 2009)

Jimster said:


> Really, how hard is it to search "Gibraltar". There was also at least one "Gibraltar" visable from the screen in that category at the time.  Now I know that people on FT can be real jerks sometimes, but the one thing they always want is people to use a bit of initiative themselves before asking others.  I mean I respond to posts to help people, but when you ask people to respond to the same thing time and time again and when it only takes seconds to find the info by searching, who has a "pessimistic" view on life?



I do not think it is hard either.

But I do not see a problem with asking for a fresh opinion on the matter. Or if you have a slightly different question on the topic.

We have a lot of members, and it never hurts to give others an opportunity to answer if you feel the issue has been beat to death.

I am starting to think that Gib in particular raises peoples blood pressure for some reason.


----------



## Keitht (Jul 31, 2009)

ecwinch said:


> I was more thinking of speed and time. If you get stuck behind a lorrie, it can be slow going on that road.
> 
> Vs, the other route which has more highway/motorway quality roads.



Absolutely agree on that point.


----------



## hibbeln (Jul 31, 2009)

Just to chime in........*we loved Gibraltar!*  :whoopie: 

There was no way we were going to be that close and not go!  And I was sure glad we did.  I thought at first it would simply be a "rock" with "apes".  Little did we know all the history (from Neanderthal Man to WWII) that took place there.  My family *still* has it come up in conversation from time to time with little tidbits of things we learned and saw there.

We never did bother with the town of Gibraltar (except for an overpriced burger in a pub before we caught the bus back to the border), but we found The Rock to be absolutely fascinating.


----------



## Keitht (Jul 31, 2009)

hibbeln said:


> Just to chime in........*we loved Gibraltar!*  :whoopie:
> 
> There was no way we were going to be that close and not go!  And I was sure glad we did.  I thought at first it would simply be a "rock" with "apes".  Little did we know all the history (from Neanderthal Man to WWII) that took place there.  My family *still* has it come up in conversation from time to time with little tidbits of things we learned and saw there.
> 
> We never did bother with the town of Gibraltar (except for an overpriced burger in a pub before we caught the bus back to the border), but we found The Rock to be absolutely fascinating.



I think those 2 paragraphs have summed 'Gib' up beautifully.  It has basically been a military garrison for hundreds of years due to its strategic location. I'm not aware of too many military bases that come high on the tourist trail of the basis of their aesthetic appeal.  
 This link provides a potted chronology of the 'Rock'.


----------



## hibbeln (Jul 31, 2009)

Keith!   It was COOL!  (and I'm a chick, and I still thought it was cool).

But for the sake of clarity, let me tell you what I liked about it:

This is THE Rock of Gibraltar.  Now that alone is neat.
Heck, it's one of the "Pillars of Hercules"!  How fun to say you've been there!
The history of Neanderthal Man here (the first Neanderthal skull was actually found here, but they didn't realize what they'd found until a few years later when the second skull was found in the Neandertal Valley in Germany (I hope I have my facts right) thus it's called Neanderthal Man and not Gibraltar Man!).
St. Michael's cave is very cool.  It was once thought to be a passageway to the Underworld  , and was used as a hospital in WWII  , and is rumored to lead underground to Africa (this sooooo intrigued my kids), and they have a STAGE in there!
Apes.  Oh how fun.  Being chased by apes.  Having them try to steal your cookies.  Having them terrorize your children.....and mother-in-law.  Heh heh heh.      My youngest son had to be "rescued" by an elderly British gent who lifted him up and carried him down some stairs to get away from one (it was literally the only time that child ever let a stranger touch him, and he CLUNG to that man because he wanted to get away from that scary ape!).  :rofl: 
The whole rock is swiss cheese like with tunnels.  Fun!  But I love caves....tunnels.....anything underground.
Just reading about how during WWII the troops lived on 8 hour shifts of work-leisure-sleep with someone sleeping in each bed during every 8 hour period was stunning.  We struggled to imagine living like that.  Even if you aren't "interested" in military history, you can't help but be interested in this stuff!
The folks at the border won't usual stamp your adult passport, but my kids bellied up to their booth at "immigration" and did the big eyes/cute smile and got their most coveted "Gib" stamp in their passports.

So if anyone (OP?) is reading this and thinks "Hmmmm, that does sound kind of interesting", then visit!


----------



## ecwinch (Jul 31, 2009)

Diitto with Deb. 

And fail to understand why some others think it is a waste of time....


----------



## hibbeln (Aug 1, 2009)

It must be because they bought lunch there at the exorbitant prices and that negatively colored their whole experience.   

I have to say, that was the one place that I absolutely put my foot down and said "I am NOT paying that much for a crappy looking sandwich wrapped in saran wrap!"  Bring your own sandwiches or at least some cookies stuffed in your pockets because truly the prices on the Rock are highway robbery (plus the whole Ape Experience is so much more entertaining/terrifying if you're carting food around).


----------

