# Disney Timeshare - Advise needed from TUG Gurus



## PHXwyndham (Jun 29, 2020)

Hi All,

Probably this has been asked quite a bit, not sure.... but here it goes.

I've been looking at Disney for a while (for years).  - I even went on the tour and the sales pitch was very aggressive.  I don't know why the sales people get angry when we're just there to look (even when it was said a the start of the whole presentation) - 

Hopefully someone can help me with the following questions:

1. The rooms we were shown in Orlando were quite small (1 bedroom) -  I am a Wyndham owner and I usually stay in 2 - 3 bedroom villas.
2. Resale - If you buy resale do they treat you as a second class citizen like Wyndham does? - Wyndham always try to sell you more points during an "owner update" (sales pitch) - where they say I don't have certain things because I am a resale owner.
3. What do you guys recommend to start and try this out? - Something cheap is that's even remotely possible.
4. Disney vs Wyndham - I even said if I get more out of Disney I can get rid of my current contracts.
5. Contract date expiration with Disney -  Is there something to watch for?  - I've been a Wyndham member for 10+ years and the membership is perpetual.
6. Maintenance fees? - An average?  

Hopefully I am not asking too much... Just looking to make the move if it's worth it.

Stay safe.


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## RX8 (Jun 29, 2020)

I don’t own Wyndham but I own a Disney resale along with an HGVC affiliate.  

First, I am surprised to hear you experienced an “aggressive” DVC sales pitch. I have been on multiple DVC sales pitches (on DCL cruises) and not one has been remotely close to what you could call aggressive. 

My opinion but I don’t think you can really compare DVC vs Wyndham, or to any other timeshare system. One has to love Disney and the parks to want to own a DVC. With DVC you are of course limited in locations. 

It isn’t a good idea to use your DVC points on an RCI exchange as the best use of the points is by staying onsite to experience everything Disney.  DVC is very flexible and has no nickel and dime charges. MF depends on the resort but expect to pay about $8 per point. This includes property taxes. 

DVC treats resale owners exactly the same with exception to certain membership ancillary benefits, such as DVC member only cruises and discounts on annual passes. As far as using your points for DVC resorts one is treated the same whether they are retail or resale. 

DVC is easy to rent for a profit and holds it value well. As a result, the upfront cost is significantly higher. I paid $151 per point in 2018 for my VGC DVC and could easily sell it for $175 per point today.  You may be able to find contracts with as few as 25 points and while you can bank and draw giving you three years of points to use you still won’t get many days. The cheapest resort will be around $65 pp.  Home resort matters as you get 11 months advance booking compared to 7 months for everyone else. The popular resorts will be harder to get what you want at 7 months.


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## elaine (Jun 29, 2020)

We've been very happy. Agree with almost all of above. You can only borrow 50% of points for 2021, due to covid cancellations. Also, with covid, rentals are not quite as easy and prices have ticked down--but it's still very easy to rent to at least cover annual fees. Even with Covid, I expect DVC to hold its value.  There's a very active resale market. I use the Timeshare Store for all buying/selling. I've bought resale, sold, and rebought another DVC from them.
Some older resorts end in 2042. I bought AKV, as we like it a lot, are happy to stay there is we can't switch at 7 months. It was not that much more than SSR, which would be our least fav DVC, but still above any offsites. We've stayed at many Marriotts and HGVC in Orlando, which are all very nice. But, we love the DVC atmosphere, night Disney pool movies, quick service/food courts at the resorts (teens), and buses to the parks. We like to park our car and not drive for the week.
Resale is the same for booking and staying at DVC, except resale of Riviera can only stay at R and (maybe) new resorts later. I think resale purchase now cannot stay at R. I am grandfathered in.
For the best bang, I'd still buy AKV. The points for standard rooms are low and there are plenty of places to view animals other than your balcony. I'd also consider OKW for an extended contract (not the one expiring in 2042). If you look on disboards.com on DVC forums, you'll get an advocate for almost every resort and tons of posts about where should I buy.There are also spreadsheets of costs/pros/cons.
Staying in a 2 BR will be more $ than a wyndham. Lots love Bonnet Creek. If you want a 2+ bedroom, I'd stay at BC 1st to see how you like it before buying DVC. Can't you just decline owners update. That's what we do for TS we own. I state at check in to DO NOT CALL. sometimes they call 1X and I tell them NO and that's it. 
You can look at the DVC points charts, then multiply by $8 (ave annual fee/point) to get your cost to stay in a 2BR DVC, not including your capital outlay.
You won't get a cheap DVC. Expect to pay $100+/point for WDW DVC (I would not buy HHI, A, Vero, as I think resale might be dicey in years to come, and you're always limited to 7 months to book WDW). IMHO you can recoup capital outlay on resale--but covid might change that. So far, resale prices are holding.


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## frank808 (Jun 29, 2020)

New resale owners (Jan 2019+) are not able to use their points at the Riviera Resort. Also probably won't be able to use post Jan 2019 resale points to book into the new resorts coming online. With Reflections being cancelled the next project is st Disneyland.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


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## bogey21 (Jun 29, 2020)

I don't know a thing about DVC but if I were thinking about buying I'd wait awhile to see if COVID-19 brings more Sellers into the market.  If it does, your cost to buy may come down, maybe substantially.  Maybe I'm wrong.  Disney Owners (and  guests) seem to be a hearty bunch.  My Son and his Wife just renewed their annual passes.  I think the cost was something like $1,030 each...and the Park is only partially open and usage is limited.  Wow...

George


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## Dean (Jun 29, 2020)

PHXwyndham said:


> Hi All,
> 
> Probably this has been asked quite a bit, not sure.... but here it goes.
> 
> ...


1.  Other than OKW and studio rooms at Poly, rooms are generally smaller at Disney than outside resorts.  You can find the breakdown on types of rooms and size on places like dvcnew.com.
2.  I guess it depends on what qualifies as second class citizen.  To me the line honoring the contract as written, not whether they have limitations on resale buyers.  DVC does have limitations but less than most.  But unlike most they don't give you a way to move those points to qualified status.  DVC doesn't target members, renters, exchangers even cash guests for tours and they generally don't even encourage repeat touring nor do they generally gift you for doing so.  High pressure is unusual with DVC though.  
3.  I recommend you become educated on the system and resorts.  I get the sense you are very familiar with Disney in general.  I feel that to make a truly informed decision one needs to be familiar with DVC, timeshare in general and on property stays.  DVC is a specialty product at a premium price even resale. Once you have a feel for how you'll use it and the resorts along with your travel needs and planning windows; you'll know what's best.  As a rule I'd discourage anyone buying cheaper to get a specific high end option but I'd also discourage one from buying high end to use mostly to try a number of resorts.  As a rule the lowest option you'd be happy with most stays is the best assuming DVC makes sense at all.  Then I'd look at a mid range # of points.  I generally discourage going too small (like under 150) or too large (like over 300).  
4.  Disney only makes sense for DVC resorts and mainly for parks.  It never makes sense to buy for other exchange options.  If DVC makes sense, I'd keep both and use Wyndham for non DVC trips.  
5.  I wouldn't let expiration drive your decision but I would keep it in mind for the 2042 resorts.  It's just a factor on value, not a driver of absolute choice IMO.
6.  Disney is expensive, yearly and otherwise.  Comparing a 2 BR equivalent a year DVC has generally been about 30% more per year.  The flexibility has value but you're paying for that flexibility.  Disney is proud of themselves.


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## TheHolleys87 (Jun 29, 2020)

I agree with everything stated above.  The value of DVC is in visiting Disney, not exchanging out of the system, and yes, the villas (except for OKW) are smaller than similar size in other systems.

Here are links that might be useful:

Points charts, so you can estimate how many points you need to buy based on resort, villa size and season of travel, and expected frequency of visits: https://disneyvacationclub.disney.go.com/vacation-planning/points-charts/

As Dean says, https://dvcnews.com/ has detailed information on specific resorts, as well as information about the system itself.

And finally the Purchasing DVC forum on DISBoards, where you’ll find all sorts of viewpoints for decision making: https://www.disboards.com/forums/purchasing-dvc.28/


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## kanerf (Jun 29, 2020)

One of the best features of owning DVC is that there is actually an effective resale market.  Should you decide to sell your DVC ownership, it is easy to do and depending on when you purchased, you might make money on the sale.  This cannot be said of Wyndham (I own there also).  DVC is of course limited to where they have resorts, so you really want to like visiting Disney World.  Also, DVC points are very easy to rent or to rent out.  You might want to try renting points for as stay before you decide to jump in.  I was lucky enough to get a few RCI exchanges before I bought there.  These are becoming very hard to get.


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## bnoble (Jun 29, 2020)

PHXwyndham said:


> 1. The rooms we were shown in Orlando were quite small (1 bedroom) -  I am a Wyndham owner and I usually stay in 2 - 3 bedroom villas.
> 2. Resale - If you buy resale do they treat you as a second class citizen like Wyndham does? - Wyndham always try to sell you more points during an "owner update" (sales pitch) - where they say I don't have certain things because I am a resale owner.
> 3. What do you guys recommend to start and try this out? - Something cheap is that's even remotely possible.
> 4. Disney vs Wyndham - I even said if I get more out of Disney I can get rid of my current contracts.
> ...



1: DVC units are generally smaller and a little less well-equipped than others. For example, their 2BRs generally sleep 8, but I'm struggling to think of a 2BR that has a dining table that seats more than four (or maybe five) comfortably. The 2BRs are usually a modest increase over the 1BRs in terms of points required. Most 3BRs are point-heavy.

2: Resale DVC owners have some restrictions on how they can use points (original 14 only in those resorts, Riviera only at Riviera, cannot use for non-DVC Disney resorts, Cruises, or the guided tours), do not have access to most DVC Owner discounts, and are not eligible for special events (moonlight madness, etc.). IMO, the ones that matter are the annual pass discount, and to a lesser extent the in-system usage restrictions. The others are in the noise and don't really matter. Otherwise, I don't think you are treated any differently.

(As an aside: if you stopped going to "owner updates," you'd probably find that resale Wyndham owners aren't treated all that differently, either.)

3: There is no sense in which I consider DVC cheap. If that's important to you, DVC is probably not for you. Saratoga is probably the lowest-cost WDW-area resort, and enough points to stay over a peak-season week in a 2BR annually there would still cost you $25K give or take on the resale market.

4: They are incomparable. Disney is really only useful for staying at one of the WDW-area resorts. It is designed for people who spend that vacation more or less exclusively in Disney theme parks, wanting a Disney experience. Wyndham is a large network of diverse resorts, one of which happens to be the very nice Bonnet Creek. If you wanted to restrict your timeshare vacations to WDW, DVC can be a good choice. If you want timeshare stays at other places, DVC alone is not a great way to do it.

5: The earliest expiration dates are 2042--far enough in the future that you probably will have had your fill by then. Exit strategies may get complicated as we get closer to those dates, though, and if that matters you probably want something that expires later.

6: A peak-season 2BR week at Saratoga will run you almost $2K if you owned there, and that's one of the less expensive.

---------------------------------

If I were in the market for DVC, I would sit tight for at least six months and probably at least a year. The "new normal" of a post-COVID world is going to change the Disney experience significantly, beyond general impacts on travel. My own anecdotal situation is an example. We typically at least one Disney vacation every year, for the past 15 years or so. We have visited Disneyland several times, Disney World more times than I can count, a half-dozen Disney cruises, and a trip to Paris to spend a week in the city followed by several days at the Disney resort there. Right now, one of the last places I want to be is in a slow-moving, poorly-ventilated indoor queue, six feet apart and masked or not. So we don't plan to go back to a Disney park anytime soon, and our vacations are going to look very different---probably for years. More mountains and less-crowded beach destinations, fewer (or no) theme parks, water parks, cruises, etc. I also believe there are going to be some lasting economic impacts that are going to effect many US families. Put those together, and I expect the overall demand for Disney vacations is going to be lower over the next few years than it has been in the past several, with a corresponding decrease in resale values.


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## ljmiii (Jun 29, 2020)

PHXwyndham said:


> 1. The rooms we were shown in Orlando were quite small (1 bedroom) -  I am a Wyndham owner and I usually stay in 2 - 3 bedroom villas.


Other than OKW, DVC's villas are in general smaller. That said, 1 and 2 BRs at resorts built in the 'middle years' - BLT, Kidani at AKV, VGF - feel quite nice. The 3BR Grand Villas are enormous...but priced accordingly.


PHXwyndham said:


> 2. Resale - If you buy resale do they treat you as a second class citizen like Wyndham does?


Since 2011 DVC has treated resale buyers differently and there have a number of 'turns of the screw' since then. That said, they have thus far not made any further differentiations retroactive (i.e. the resale restrictions continue to be whatever they were when you bought).


PHXwyndham said:


> 3. What do you guys recommend to start and try this out? - Something cheap is that's even remotely possible.


Rent a reservation from an owner or one one of the DVC rental sites.


PHXwyndham said:


> 4. Disney vs Wyndham - I even said if I get more out of Disney I can get rid of my current contracts.


Both the selling and renting markets for DVC are quite liquid - unbelievably so compared to HGVC and MVCI.


PHXwyndham said:


> 5. Contract date expiration with Disney - Is there something to watch for? - I've been a Wyndham member for 10+ years and the membership is perpetual.


Very much so. At this point I can't recommend someone new to DVC buy at any resort with a 2042 expiration date.


PHXwyndham said:


> 6. Maintenance fees? - An average?


MFs are based on points and the points needed for a reservation vary wildly based on resort, villa size, and season. You can easily find DVC point charts and MFs by resort online, pick a resort, season, and villa to get an idea of how many points you would need (and thus your projected MFs).


PHXwyndham said:


> Hopefully I am not asking too much... Just looking to make the move if it's worth it.


When people ask me if they should buy DVC I ask three questions in return, "Do you plan on visiting WDW at least once every two years for at least the next 10 years?", "Can you plan at least 7 and ideally 11 months in advance", and "Do you really want to pay a premium to stay 'on property'?" Only if the answer to all of these questions is 'Yes' should you buy.


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## CPNY (Jun 29, 2020)

DVC is great if you’re going to Disney parks. If I were to buy a resale, I’d go with a small point contract, enough for 4 nights for the time spent at Disney parks then I’d add my other timeshares to the trip for 3 nights when we do universal.


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## Dean (Jun 29, 2020)

> and a little less well-equipped than others.


On this note it may be helpful to understand that the studios are a LOT less equipped compared to most other studios, esp Wyndham or Marriott.  And studios are among the most difficult room type to get a reservation at for rooms that are not specialty rooms like value at AKV.


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## PHXwyndham (Jun 30, 2020)

Thanks everyone !  - I'll try to find a small contract to test it out and supplement with Wyndham.


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## CPNY (Jun 30, 2020)

PHXwyndham said:


> Thanks everyone !  - I'll try to find a small contract to test it out and supplement with Wyndham.


Can you trade your Wyndham for DVC in RCI? Maybe try that first?


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## TheHolleys87 (Jun 30, 2020)

PHXwyndham said:


> Thanks everyone !  - I'll try to find a small contract to test it out and supplement with Wyndham.



Good luck - reportedly, there are more contracts than usual for sale currently, and Disney is not exercising ROFR. 



CPNY said:


> Can you trade your Wyndham for DVC in RCI? Maybe try that first?


I agree! Before spending the $$ to buy, make sure the onsite privileges are worth the trade off in unit size and amenities. We’ve stayed at the Marriotts across IH 4 and at BC, and I miss those large units!


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## elaine (Jun 30, 2020)

I bought a 50 point "Starter" DVC VWL (now Boulder) and it worked out great! Got to test DVC, added onto the front of RCI trades, transferred in points from another DVCer 2X for bigger trips and to get 11 month booking at another resort. Like it so much, we sold that one and bought a larger contract at AKV.
I read on disboards that smaller contracts are being snapped up and still commanding higher prices. Possibly due to renters fiasco.


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## CPNY (Jun 30, 2020)

elaine said:


> I bought a 50 point "Starter" DVC VWL (now Boulder) and it worked out great! Got to test DVC, added onto the front of RCI trades, transferred in points from another DVCer 2X for bigger trips and to get 11 month booking at another resort. Like it so much, we sold that one and bought a larger contract at AKV.
> I read on disboards that smaller contracts are being snapped up and still commanding higher prices. Possibly due to renters fiasco.


I was thinking of a smaller contract for only a few nights here and there. Don’t need a whole week at a DVC and a one bedroom is preferable. I can do two bedrooms in Orlando through interval. Just not sure if a 50 or 60 point contract is worth it. I assume you can combine UY at you home resort and book 11 mo out. Basically take 3 years of 50 point contracts if I owned at boardwalk and book a room 11 mo for a larger room at 150 points?


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## ljmiii (Jun 30, 2020)

CPNY said:


> I was thinking of a smaller contract for only a few nights here and there. Don’t need a whole week at a DVC and a one bedroom is preferable. I can do two bedrooms in Orlando through interval. Just not sure if a 50 or 60 point contract is worth it. I assume you can combine UY at you home resort and book 11 mo out. Basically take 3 years of 50 point contracts if I owned at boardwalk and book a room 11 mo for a larger room at 150 points?


In normal times you could bank and borrow your 50 point contract to make a 150 point reservation. But DVC is limiting borrowing to 50% of your points - so you would be limited to 125 points. That limit is currently without expiration but is expected to last at least until the end of 2021.

That said, I usually try to dissuade people from planning on banking *and* borrowing.  Life happens to us all and if you need for some reason to cancel then you are left with little alternative then to try to rent out your reservation. You could try to rent out your points but would almost certainly be left with 'lost' points.


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## elaine (Jun 30, 2020)

you can combine same resort, same UY. You cannot combine different resorts. In 2021, you can only borrow 50% of points due to covid policies on borrowing points to keep availability. That could become permanent. Who knows.
If you get transferred points, they retain home resort and UY of other person.I banked and borrowed for 5 years and it worked out great for me. I didn't want a larger capital outlay. Plus, smaller contracts are very easy to sell. Like in 1 day. Try to get a UY at the beginning of normal travel patterns. I got a Sept UY and this was not great from summer travel. My next DVC was Dec 1 UY. We travel in Dec/ March/summer and rarely go in sept-nov, so that was perfect.


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## cbyrne1174 (Jul 1, 2020)

The benefit of DVC over Wyndham is not having to juggle housekeeping credits and reservation transactions. It's mainly good if you want to go to Olrando for the weekend. Weekend stays are only about 30% more on points vs weekdays. I'll probably eventually get 100 SSR points so I can stay 1 night in a studio at a time and use it to visit Orlando on a Saturday night without having to drive an hour there and an hour back.

Right now I'm content with doing owner updates for 30,000 Wyndham reward points and getting 2 free nights at the Wyndham Garden next to Disney Springs for if I only want to stay 1 night in Orlando.

If I were a Wyndham owner that didn't live in FL, no way in hell would I spend the money on a DVC contract. I'd be content with Reunion, Bonnet Creek and SSR (via RCI exchange). It will cost you at least 3 times as much to stay a week in DVC as it would at Wyndham. The cheapest weekly DVC stay in a 1 bedroom is RCI, which ends up being about $1,000/week. Reunion and Bonnet Creek are frequently 35% off weekday stays for resale owners, making them the even cheaper option. Every year I stay at Bonnet Creek during week 22 (first week of summer vacation) for 5 nights at $55/night in a 1 bedroom deluxe. The cheapest DVC stay during that time is in an Old Key West studio using SSR points, which costs about $122 a night and you don't even get a kitchen.


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## rickandcindy23 (Jul 1, 2020)

Disney through Disney is very expensive, but not more expensive than Marriott, Wyndham, Hilton, etc., retail purchases.  The difference between Disney and Marriott, in my opinion, is that Disney doesn't lose 75% of its value as soon as you sign on the dotted line.  Disney is also very rentable.  We bought resale at $50 per point for OKW and $60 per point at SSR.  We are not treated differently, but there are things we cannot do with our points.  We cannot go on cruises with points, for example.  I love Disney and still find it rentable, even with Covid-19.  I just reduced my prices to get my units rented.  I cannot say that about anything else I own.


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## CPNY (Jul 2, 2020)

elaine said:


> you can combine same resort, same UY. You cannot combine different resorts. In 2021, you can only borrow 50% of points due to covid policies on borrowing points to keep availability. That could become permanent. Who knows.
> If you get transferred points, they retain home resort and UY of other person.I banked and borrowed for 5 years and it worked out great for me. I didn't want a larger capital outlay. Plus, smaller contracts are very easy to sell. Like in 1 day. Try to get a UY at the beginning of normal travel patterns. I got a Sept UY and this was not great from summer travel. My next DVC was Dec 1 UY. We travel in Dec/ March/summer and rarely go in sept-nov, so that was perfect.


I’d want a sept UY since I would want fall and early December travel. Occasionally Jan.


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## CPNY (Jul 2, 2020)

cbyrne1174 said:


> The benefit of DVC over Wyndham is not having to juggle housekeeping credits and reservation transactions. It's mainly good if you want to go to Olrando for the weekend. Weekend stays are only about 30% more on points vs weekdays. I'll probably eventually get 100 SSR points so I can stay 1 night in a studio at a time and use it to visit Orlando on a Saturday night without having to drive an hour there and an hour back.
> 
> Right now I'm content with doing owner updates for 30,000 Wyndham reward points and getting 2 free nights at the Wyndham Garden next to Disney Springs for if I only want to stay 1 night in Orlando.
> 
> If I were a Wyndham owner that didn't live in FL, no way in hell would I spend the money on a DVC contract. I'd be content with Reunion, Bonnet Creek and SSR (via RCI exchange). It will cost you at least 3 times as much to stay a week in DVC as it would at Wyndham. The cheapest weekly DVC stay in a 1 bedroom is RCI, which ends up being about $1,000/week. Reunion and Bonnet Creek are frequently 35% off weekday stays for resale owners, making them the even cheaper option. Every year I stay at Bonnet Creek during week 22 (first week of summer vacation) for 5 nights at $55/night in a 1 bedroom deluxe. The cheapest DVC stay during that time is in an Old Key West studio using SSR points, which costs about $122 a night and you don't even get a kitchen.


The only issue with the RCI exchange is availability. Although, I don’t book Disney a year out. I’m usually booking less than 4 mo in advance so I hear a DVC wouldn’t work for me


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## Dean (Jul 2, 2020)

CPNY said:


> I’d want a sept UY since I would want fall and early December travel. Occasionally Jan.


IF one has consistent travel times the best UY is the one that starts the closest to that travel time.  If one travels throughout the year some times might be more important than others.  Those that travel throughout the year and where there is fairly equal importance, they are taking a small amount more risk though the amount of risk depends on the rest of their personal situation.


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## elaine (Jul 2, 2020)

CPNY said:


> Although, I don’t book Disney a year out. I’m usually booking less than 4 mo in advance so I hear a DVC wouldn’t work for me


If you are OK to stay any place and switch rooms, it might work.  If you want more than 1-2 nights together or at specific resorts, esp. Fall-Dec, which are very popular with DVC, that'll be hard to book. If you said summer, I'd say it's usually fine.
DVC is very cost effective for studios. Between the RCi trade fee and $190 inbound DVC fee, that's the same as my annual fees for 50 points.


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## CPNY (Jul 2, 2020)

elaine said:


> If you are OK to stay any place and switch rooms, it might work.  If you want more than 1-2 nights together or at specific resorts, esp. Fall-Dec, which are very popular with DVC, that'll be hard to book. If you said summer, I'd say it's usually fine.
> DVC is very cost effective for studios. Between the RCi trade fee and $190 inbound DVC fee, that's the same as my annual fees for 50 points.


Good to know. I’d almost always want a 1 bedroom. I could do a studio and would reserve the DVC for less than a week. I’d prob stay there. 3-4 nights then add on my other timeshare units in a 2 bedroom at vistana or Marriott.


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## elaine (Jul 2, 2020)

3+ nights at the same resort with under 4 months Fall-Dec is dicey IMHO. I'd do a test for you, but this fall is not normal with Covid and lots canceling.


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## blondietink (Jul 2, 2020)

We have owned DVC for 16 years. Bought Saratoga Springs at $82 pp.. We have never stayed there. We have always been able to book other resorts at 7 months out. We have our 4th reservation coming up this fall at Aulanii in Hawaii. As long as you don't want to use your points towards cruises (bad use of points anyway), you would be better off buying resale. The other perks with being a direct owner aten't worth the difference in price.


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## PHXwyndham (Jul 2, 2020)

cbyrne1174 said:


> The benefit of DVC over Wyndham is not having to juggle housekeeping credits and reservation transactions. It's mainly good if you want to go to Olrando for the weekend. Weekend stays are only about 30% more on points vs weekdays. I'll probably eventually get 100 SSR points so I can stay 1 night in a studio at a time and use it to visit Orlando on a Saturday night without having to drive an hour there and an hour back.
> 
> Right now I'm content with doing owner updates for 30,000 Wyndham reward points and getting 2 free nights at the Wyndham Garden next to Disney Springs for if I only want to stay 1 night in Orlando.
> 
> If I were a Wyndham owner that didn't live in FL, no way in hell would I spend the money on a DVC contract. I'd be content with Reunion, Bonnet Creek and SSR (via RCI exchange). It will cost you at least 3 times as much to stay a week in DVC as it would at Wyndham. The cheapest weekly DVC stay in a 1 bedroom is RCI, which ends up being about $1,000/week. Reunion and Bonnet Creek are frequently 35% off weekday stays for resale owners, making them the even cheaper option. Every year I stay at Bonnet Creek during week 22 (first week of summer vacation) for 5 nights at $55/night in a 1 bedroom deluxe. The cheapest DVC stay during that time is in an Old Key West studio using SSR points, which costs about $122 a night and you don't even get a kitchen.




Thanks for the response! and yes, I am a Wyndham owner that doesn't live in FL and when we go to Orlando my usual spot is Reunion.   

Thanks again!


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## cbyrne1174 (Jul 2, 2020)

PHXwyndham said:


> Thanks for the response! and yes, I am a Wyndham owner that doesn't live in FL and when we go to Orlando my usual spot is Reunion.
> 
> Thanks again!



Well you won't find a DVC unit that's equivalent to the Reunion 3 bedrooms in both size and luxury for anything under $3,500 a week. With my MF at Wyndham Grand Desert, I pay $1,050 a week tops for Reunion since it's usually 35% off in the summer. Like I said, 3x as much =(


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## JulieAB (Jul 3, 2020)

PHXwyndham said:


> Hi All,
> 
> Probably this has been asked quite a bit, not sure.... but here it goes.
> 
> ...



I noticed you are in Phx and own at Dolphin's Cove.  We're also in Phx and USED to own at Dolphin's Cove, but now we own Grand Californian.  If your plan is Disneyland, you really need to own there to go there.  It's rare (and VERY expensive) to buy retail at that resort.  If you buy resale, you won't be able to trade into any new disney resorts including Riviera and the new disneyland hotel DVC tower that they're trying to get passed in Anaheim.  Do more research on disboards, rent some units from DVC members to try, and consider waiting to see what happens with the new DLR DVC tower.


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## frank808 (Jul 4, 2020)

JulieAB said:


> I noticed you are in Phx and own at Dolphin's Cove. We're also in Phx and USED to own at Dolphin's Cove, but now we own Grand Californian. If your plan is Disneyland, you really need to own there to go there. It's rare (and VERY expensive) to buy retail at that resort. If you buy resale, you won't be able to trade into any new disney resorts after Riviera, including Reflections (near Wilderness in FL) and the new disneyland hotel DVC tower that they're trying to get passed in Anaheim. Do more research on disboards, rent some units from DVC members to try, and consider waiting to see what happens with the new DLR DVC tower.



Resale points purchased after Jan 2019 cannot trade into Riviera Resort and newer. Reflections has been cancelled. The DL DVC resort is still alive.



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## JulieAB (Jul 4, 2020)

frank808 said:


> Resale points purchased after Jan 2019 cannot trade into Riviera Resort and newer. Reflections has been cancelled. The DL DVC resort is still alive.
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my SM-T377P using Tapatalk


Thank you, that what I meant in my head so I edited for clarity.  I didn't realize reflections was cancelled though!  Was that during this pandemic?


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## TheHolleys87 (Jul 4, 2020)

JulieAB said:


> Thank you, that what I meant in my head so I edited for clarity.  I didn't realize reflections was cancelled though!  Was that during this pandemic?


Yes, a few weeks ago all mentions of Reflections on Disney websites quietly disappeared, and aerial photos showed grass being planted on cleared land. No announcements have been made by Disney so nothing is official, and speculation is rampant as to whether the project has been permanently canceled or simply put on hold until Riviera and the new Disneyland DVC are closer to being sold out. Reflections may be like Eagle Pines, the DVC resort that was announced and then never built, or like what started out as part of Pop Century, sat unfinished for 10 years, and was then re-envisioned and built as Art of Animation.


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## Mary Schulz (Jul 4, 2020)

PHXwyndham said:


> Hi All,
> 
> Probably this has been asked quite a bit, not sure.... but here it goes.
> 
> ...


Hello,

Like you, I did a LOT of research before I bought into DVC. We already own a timeshare that we exchange through interval international and it’s nothing like owning a DVC membership.

We own at Aulani in Hawaii because:
A. We love hawaii
B. We love Disney
C. We love the 5 star experience

Before we bought, knowing THIS was the property we would make our home resort, we rented points through David’s for a 2 night stay last March to try it out. Cost is about 50% less than paying cash and we fell in love.

Went on the sales presentation, Andrea was super sweet, very knowledgeable and not in the least part aggressive. In fact, she left the room and we went to take photos of what she put in front of us, when she walked back in she caught us and told us we could keep everything, we were floored! We had been at a timeshare presentation in Maui days earlier and that was beyond aggressive! That guy was super angry we walked away, and I did knowing I was saving my $$ for Disney.

We knew we were going to buy, but how many points did we need? We took the information back to the pool, ordered lunch and reviewed how many points to spend a week at Aulani, which points-wise is equivalent to Grand Californian and Grand Floridian and we came up with 150pts for a studio.

yes, like you, we own a 2bdrm and mostly exchange for Marriott, in fact I am at Marriott Mountainside now in a 2bdrm and I love it. For us, the cost of a 2bdrm is too much so we went with a studio, family of 4. And it works, we have done it now twice and we are barely in the room. We even ship a cooler with home cooked meals so we can microwave during the week and spend more time enjoying and less time cooking 

Timeshare end date I believe is 2062. I will be 82 so this will pass on to the kids.

we pay $105 per month in dues/maintenance fees on 150 points

there is a transient tax of about $9.82 per studio room night due at check out

yes, you can buy resale cheaper. You get locked out of exchanging into the newer resorts as they come online and no member cruise. The exchange for a cruise isn’t worth IMO, it is cheaper to pay cash.

we love having 11 month priority at our home resort because we go for Christmas, it’s our new family tradition. And you need priority for the rooms that cost the least points: studios, 1bdrm, 2bdrm and 3bdrm standard view.

Lastly, we get SO much time with the characters, that truly makes it magical. It’s not like the park experience or paid breakfasts where you get a few seconds, we actually spend the week with Moana, LILO & Stitch, Goofy, Mickey, Minnie, Pluto, Chip n Dale, Donald & Daisy Duck, Duffy the Bear.... and Aunty’s Beach House seals the deal! The kids get to go play at a ridiculously awesome kids club while we go out for happy hour, win win for everyone.

yes, we pay a premium for this, but it is worth every penny for the exceptional memories and stress-free vacations we enjoy.

To sum up:
Rent, find the resort you love
Buy into DVC or resale
Enjoy!


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## Deb & Bill (Jul 4, 2020)

If you plan on using points at DLR, you need to own there and book it right at 11 months out.  I've owned DVC for 23 years (my initial points were $50 direct from Disney).  The price they are asking for points direct is outrageous.  I've only used points for DVC except for one four night cruise in 2000.  The price to trade out is really high.  Use DVC for DVC only. 

We used to own two flex weeks at a Hilton affiliate, but sold them after we moved to where our points were located. We're on vacation all the time now and didn't need them.


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## elaine (Jul 4, 2020)

I'd probably still buy resale at around $100 for AKV, SSR, OKW (extended), but not direct pricing. But, I also would never spend $400/night + on accommodations at WDW. $400+ would need to be fabulous place in Hawaii, London, Paris.


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## bendadin (Jul 4, 2020)

elaine said:


> I'd probably still buy resale at around $100 for AKV, SSR, OKW (extended), but not direct pricing. But, I also would never spend $400/night + on accommodations at WDW. $400+ would need to be fabulous place in Hawaii, London, Paris.



We sold AKV 100 points partially stripped. We accepted $105 and Disney exercised ROFR. No clue what it will look like now.


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## nomoretslt (Jul 4, 2020)

TheHolleys87 said:


> Yes, a few weeks ago all mentions of Reflections on Disney websites quietly disappeared, and aerial photos showed grass being planted on cleared land. No announcements have been made by Disney so nothing is official, and speculation is rampant as to whether the project has been permanently canceled or simply put on hold until Riviera and the new Disneyland DVC are closer to being sold out. Reflections may be like Eagle Pines, the DVC resort that was announced and then never built, or like what started out as part of Pop Century, sat unfinished for 10 years, and was then re-envisioned and built as Art of Animation.


I was not a fan of Reflections.  It just looked out of place when you compared it to wilderness lodge.  I haven’t been keeping up with the latest DVC news....didn’t know they put that project aside.  Not surprising though.  We did buy at Riviera though, and have been members since 1997 with Boardwalk.  Getting back to the original question, I would not hesitate to buy resale unless getting a discount on annual passes would be a benefit.  But then again, these perks come and go...no guarantee.


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## marciaheitz (Jul 6, 2020)

I own DVC at the Grand Floridian and am also a Wyndham Gold owner. It's hard for me to know where to start. First I want to say I learn a system before I buy so I know how to buy and not get "second hand treatment". I also always buy from the secondary market and then purchase what I need to to be able to take advantage of the perks for buyers that buy direct from Disney/Wyndham. An example of this is I did my research and decided to purchase DVC at Grand Floridian so I started watching the DVC resale sights for what I was interested in. Unlike other systems the month you buy is very important. I ended up buying 325 pts resale from DVC by Resale. Then in order to not be deprived of any of the perks I bought 25 pts direct from Disney at Old Key West. This gives me 2 resorts that I have an early booking window at and can combine my points BECAUSE THEY WERE BOTH FEBRUARY POINTS (never buy from 2 separate months). This way my 325 points are not penalized as resale points. (I believe the minimum purchase now is 50 points). The Grand Floridian does not have smaller rooms than the Wyndhams....and Old Key West (because it was the original vacation club resort) has huge units. I have stayed in studios, 1 bedroom, 2 bedroom, lock-offs, and 3 bedroom grand villas. I have stayed at almost all of the DVC resorts and some do have smaller units vs. others but it is easy to determine that when you go onto the site and look at the unit specifics. They even give you the furniture layout. The DVC units are very high end for furnishings and finishes. I also own Marriott and have stayed at Hilton and Hyatt units and DVC is every bit as good. You can combine up to 3 years (need to educate yourself on how that works) of points at DVC. I have not found it hard to make my reservations at DVC home resort and then at 7 mo changing it to another resort that I am wanting to stay at. (Studios are the most popular and the hardest to get and you really do need to take the timelines seriously.....I make the reservation THE DAY I qualify to make them....if planning ahead is not your thing this may not work for you). I'M ASSUMING YOU GO TO DISNEY REGULARLY......IF YOU DO NOT IT PROBABLY ISN'T THE TIMESHARE I WOULD BUY.....THESE ARE POINTS THAT ARE PRETTY MUCH WASTED IF YOU JUST DEPOSIT THEM WITH RCI BECAUSE YOU MAY NOT GET AN EQUIVALENT EXCHANGE. I never trade my DVC points although you can rent them to people for a good rate. ANOTHER THING TO CONSIDER IS THAT DVC CONTRACTS HAVE AN END DATE....ORIGINALLY 50 YEARS. Wyndham has no expiration date. I would not buy Riviera points because their ability to exchange into the other resorts are limited. Wyndham has a MUCH larger system and in fact is the largest system in the world. They also own RCI and there are a few perks with that as long as you buy a points contract vs. a weeks contract. I love my Wyndham points but consider them my "work horse" points because I have access to so many locations plus the ability to use my points directly into an RCI  points exchange plus the ability to deposit my Wyndham points into RCI before they expire with Wyndham. This allows these points to be very versatile. I find both systems to be very good systems but the units at Wyndham are not the same caliber as Disney, Marriott, & Hyatt.....however, they are quite acceptable and some of them are very nice. I have stayed at Bonnett Creek twice (2 bedroom and a 3 bedroom). It is a very nice resort with large units and other amenities. You do get certain perks with Wyndham based on the level of ownership you have. Wyndham has a reputation of having a hard sales pitch and you have to be prepared if you attend one. I have never had a DVC hard sales pitch. I even had one tell me once that I didn't need any more DVC. I use these presentations sparingly based on information/questions that I want to ask....otherwise I don't attend. The Wyndham system is much more complicated than Disney and you need to make sure you know what you need to know before you buy. Both systems are good and have their strengths. Hope you enjoy whatever you decide to buy.


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## frank808 (Jul 6, 2020)

marciaheitz said:


> I ended up buying 325 pts resale from DVC by Resale. Then in order to not be deprived of any of the perks I bought 25 pts direct from Disney at Old Key West. This gives me 2 resorts that I have an early booking window at and can combine my points BECAUSE THEY WERE BOTH FEBRUARY POINTS (never buy from 2 separate months). This way my 325 points are not penalized as resale points. (I believe the minimum purchase now is 50 points).



Minimum is 100 points direct now to get full direct benefits.

If you sell your direct OKW points, you will lose blue card status. 

Points in the same use year, retain their 11 month booking window. You cannot combine and book with non home resort points until the 7 month mark. 

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## marciaheitz (Jul 6, 2020)

frank808 said:


> Minimum is 100 points direct now to get full direct benefits.
> 
> If you sell your direct OKW points, you will lose blue card status.
> 
> ...


I'll never sell my points....at least I can't envision it.....wow it really went up if it's 100 pts now. Yes you're right but you can lock in a reservation only at the home resort at 11 mo and only with those points (usually combined use years unless you have a lot of points) and at the 7 mo mark you can add onto that reservation with your other points or move the reservation to another resort. The whole reason to buy the OKW points was to get the full direct benefits without paying the full price for all the points I wanted.


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## blondietink (Jul 7, 2020)

When we bought in the minimum was 160 points.



marciaheitz said:


> I'll never sell my points....at least I can't envision it.....wow it really went up if it's 100 pts now. Yes you're right but you can lock in a reservation only at the home resort at 11 mo and only with those points (usually combined use years unless you have a lot of points) and at the 7 mo mark you can add onto that reservation with your other points or move the reservation to another resort. The whole reason to buy the OKW points was to get the full direct benefits without paying the full price for all the points I wanted.


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## Dean (Jul 7, 2020)

blondietink said:


> When we bought in the minimum was 160 points.


The initial requirement to purchase was 230 then 210, 190 and so on.  Now the minimum to purchase is 25 but to get benefits one must either be grandfathered in or have 100 qualified points but it's not a requirement to buy 100 otherwise.  They have sold as many as 25 though normally it's been 50 or more to new buyers but it often varies with the home resort for the amount they will sell a new buyer.


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## kanerf (Jul 29, 2020)

Actually I think only current owners can buy small point packages.  If you are a new owner you will have to buy 100 points at a minimum.


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## Dean (Jul 29, 2020)

kanerf said:


> Actually I think only current owners can buy small point packages.  If you are a new owner you will have to buy 100 points at a minimum.


Officially for new buyers it depends on the home resort.  For most it is 100 currently but it's as low as 50 for some resorts including SSR & OKW. However, DVC has been known to bend it's own rules to make a sale when it comes to this requirement.  And one can buy anything resale that's available.  DVC sold some packets that were under 25 pts related to the BLT reallocation and a couple of other special situations.


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## CPNY (Jul 29, 2020)

kanerf said:


> Actually I think only current owners can buy small point packages.  If you are a new owner you will have to buy 100 points at a minimum.


Even resale? I thought that was the minimum DVC sells to new owners


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## Dean (Jul 29, 2020)

CPNY said:


> Even resale? I thought that was the minimum DVC sells to new owners


No you can buy anything resell that’s available


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## CPNY (Jul 29, 2020)

Dean said:


> No you can buy anything resell that’s available


Makes sense. Haven’t seen an increase in resale listings yet. Not like it matters, I’m sure DVC. will exercise ROFR


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## Dean (Jul 30, 2020)

CPNY said:


> Makes sense. Haven’t seen an increase in resale listings yet. Not like it matters, I’m sure DVC. will exercise ROFR


I haven't been following ROFR lately but in past downturns they haven't, in some cases for very low prices.  So I wouldn't be surprised if some deals make it through.  I am a big fan of resale but not of buying very small packages.  IMO it only makes sense to buy retail in general when one is set on a specific options, willing to pay more for it regardless and the price difference between resale and retail is small.  For a very small % the pass discounts will pay for a retail purchase as long as it's around the minimum to qualify.  Personally I'd want a break even of 7 years or less on the perks, mainly the pass discount, since these are not guaranteed perks.  That may change as more resorts are added and they tweak their retail vs resale differentials.


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## CPNY (Jul 30, 2020)

Dean said:


> I haven't been following ROFR lately but in past downturns they haven't, in some cases for very low prices.  So I wouldn't be surprised if some deals make it through.  I am a big fan of resale but not of buying very small packages.  IMO it only makes sense to buy retail in general when one is set on a specific options, willing to pay more for it regardless and the price difference between resale and retail is small.  For a very small % the pass discounts will pay for a retail purchase as long as it's around the minimum to qualify.  Personally I'd want a break even of 7 years or less on the perks, mainly the pass discount, since these are not guaranteed perks.  That may change as more resorts are added and they tweak their retail vs resale differentials.


Annual pass discount doesn’t matter for me, if I go once a year that’s a lot, twice a year is rare and never for a full week. Usually 4-5 nights at a time. A smaller contract for hard to get weeks in RCI and exchange in RCI for the second time. I’ll be watching resales but haven’t seen anything reduced below what I’ve been seeing pre pandemic.


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## elaine (Jul 30, 2020)

The prices are not that much lower and some, such as AKV, appear to be holding steady. Smaller contracts still go for substantially more than large ones. Those in the know say that DVC is not actively exercising ROFR--maybe once in a blue moon, if at all. There's a robust resale market thru brokers with high demand, unlike most other TS, which helps prevent major fire sales. Wish I could say the same for my summer beach week, which has almost zero resale value.


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## CPNY (Jul 30, 2020)

elaine said:


> The prices are not that much lower and some, such as AKV, appear to be holding steady. Smaller contracts still go for substantially more than large ones. Those in the know say that DVC is not actively exercising ROFR--maybe once in a blue moon, if at all. There's a robust resale market thru brokers with high demand, unlike most other TS, which helps prevent major fire sales. Wish I could say the same for my summer beach week, which has almost zero resale value.


I’ve thought about HHI or Vero Beach since I’d most likely never stay in SSR if I purchased there. There have been many dates available in RCI for the times I go. If I can’t get a date with DVC there is always RCI or MVC through interval. Never an issue with a place to stay in Orlando.


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## elaine (Jul 30, 2020)

I assume you mean there's plenty of RCI SSR, as there's no DVC HH or VB thru RCI. I got a 2BR 4th of July week at DVC HH in 2013 via RCI--that was an awesome trade! HH and VB have higher annual dues. But, for a smaller contract, it doesn't really matter. I have a small DVC HH contract that we used to supplement our fixed HHI week. Worked great. Now we just use those DVC HH points at 7 months for WDW.


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## CPNY (Jul 30, 2020)

elaine said:


> I assume you mean there's plenty of RCI SSR, as there's no DVC HH or VB thru RCI. I got a 2BR 4th of July week at DVC HH in 2013 via RCI--that was an awesome trade! HH and VB have higher annual dues. But, for a smaller contract, it doesn't really matter. I have a small DVC HH contract that we used to supplement our fixed HHI week. Worked great. Now we just use those DVC HH points at 7 months for WDW.


Omg I just re read what I wrote, this is what happens when you do two things at once. If I purchased at Hilton head or Vero I’d never book a year out to stay at those resorts. Just like if I purchased at SSR as my home resort, I’d rarely ever book there a year out. I’d almost always be making reservations at the 7 mo mark for other DVC resorts like boardwalk. so it wouldn’t really matter what my home resort is in DVC i guess. So far with RCI I see plenty of SSR so I can always stay there for last minute trips when availability pops up. I can always use RCI as the fall back and try to get boardwalk for better planned trips with DVC. Or I can just rent from you lol.


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## Dean (Jul 30, 2020)

CPNY said:


> Annual pass discount doesn’t matter for me, if I go once a year that’s a lot, twice a year is rare and never for a full week. Usually 4-5 nights at a time. A smaller contract for hard to get weeks in RCI and exchange in RCI for the second time. I’ll be watching resales but haven’t seen anything reduced below what I’ve been seeing pre pandemic.


If you wouldn't get value from the perks, and the pass discount is the only one with any real monetary value, then buy resale.  There are other limitations like not being able to book Riviera and likely new resorts but this is minimal IMO.  Also, don't let the listing prices scare you, they probably won't come down much but that shouldn't keep you from offering lower.  At least one of the larger resale sites tends to artificially prop up prices as well.  They've refused to list lower priced listings and refused to present lower offers without written direction from the member,


CPNY said:


> I’ve thought about HHI or Vero Beach since I’d most likely never stay in SSR if I purchased there. There have been many dates available in RCI for the times I go. If I can’t get a date with DVC there is always RCI or MVC through interval. Never an issue with a place to stay in Orlando.


Long term HHI & VB will be more expensive than owning on property for SSR, BLT & AKV (in that order of long term costs) at least and will not give one an 11 month window to book at WDW.  One way to use points in this situation is to book, look for an exchange then rebook or rent those points.  If so, UY is of paramount importance to give one as much time to rebook or rent as possible.


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## CPNY (Jul 30, 2020)

Dean said:


> If you wouldn't get value from the perks, and the pass discount is the only one with any real monetary value, then buy resale.  There are other limitations like not being able to book Riviera and likely new resorts but this is minimal IMO.  Also, don't let the listing prices scare you, they probably won't come down much but that shouldn't keep you from offering lower.  At least one of the larger resale sites tends to artificially prop up prices as well.  They've refused to list lower priced listings and refused to present lower offers without written direction from the member,
> Long term HHI & VB will be more expensive than owning on property for SSR, BLT & AKV (in that order of long term costs) at least and will not give one an 11 month window to book at WDW.  One way to use points in this situation is to book, look for an exchange then rebook or rent those points.  If so, UY is of paramount importance to give one as much time to rebook or rent as possible.


Hmm interesting!! Refusing to list lower prices? Doesn’t sound like a resale site I’d want to deal with then. Any advice on best places to shop around would be great. I’m interested for a low buy in, possible a 100 point contract. I think that may be enough. Use every other year and combine points. That should be useful since I also have left over SSR units in RCI to fall back on last minute.

I’ve decided on Sept/Oct/Nov UY since I would most likely go food and wine festival in October then again in early December for holiday time


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## Dean (Jul 30, 2020)

CPNY said:


> Hmm interesting!! Refusing to list lower prices? Doesn’t sound like a resale site I’d want to deal with then. Any advice on best places to shop around would be great. I’m interested for a low buy in, possible a 100 point contract. I think that may be enough. Use every other year and combine points. That should be useful since I also have left over SSR units in RCI to fall back on last minute.
> 
> I’ve decided on Sept/Oct/Nov UY since I would most likely go food and wine festival in October then again in early December for holiday time


I haven't followed prices well enough the last couple of years to suggest a good price break.  There are ROFR listings that may give you some help but still likely suggest prices are higher if they are falling.  We saw them drop to half and ROFR go away completely with the 08/09 issue but it look some time as did real estate in general.  I'd suggest you consider a slightly large amount if you do decide to buy.  A larger contract will give you more options, more flexibility and ultimately give you access to a larger number of possible contracts.  Also, a full sized contract tends to be less per point and in this situation there may be a larger than normal differential and more competitive market.  What you don't want to do is buy 100 now and realize you needed more and have 2 closings for volume alone.  The newer resorts are more points though there are ways to stretch points as well.  Also for those that think they'll do studios, often this ends up not being the case routinely.  Another alternative in your situation if you have sufficient knowledge and preferences of the resort is to target a higher end resort to plan to stay there most of the time.  I do know that DVC has has some pretty good specials lately for retail so at least make sure you compare both just in case.


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## dvc_john (Jul 30, 2020)

CPNY said:


> I’ve decided on Sept/Oct/Nov UY since I would most likely go food and wine festival in October then again in early December for holiday time



There is no November UY which you wouldn't want anyway if you plan to regularly go in October.  Sept or Oct would work well for Oct thru Dec stays.


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## CPNY (Jul 30, 2020)

dvc_john said:


> There is no November UY which you wouldn't want anyway if you plan to regularly go in October.  Sept or Oct would work well for Oct thru Dec stays.


Really? No November UY? Why is that?


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## Dean (Jul 30, 2020)

CPNY said:


> Really? No November UY? Why is that?


They only have 8, Feb, March, April, June, August, Sept, Oct & Dec IIRC.  Since the RTU expires 31 jan and OKW was slated to open around that time of the year in 2042, it's speculated that's the reason for no Jan.  Otherwise my guess is they didn't need all of them but declared them into service as they needed points to sell.  Otherwise your guess is as good as mine.


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