# What are Marriott Rewards Points worth? [2006 thread!!!!]



## JoeMO (Aug 4, 2006)

I am considering buying at Horizons in Branson.  A Platinum week for $16,700 with 125,000 Rewards Points.  What I am trying to put a dollar value on is the points.  To earn that many points on the Marriot Rewards Credit Card you would have to spend $125,000 on regular purchase or $41,666 on Marriott purchases.  Oblviously the points are not worth that much.  I could get one to two weeks at a Marriott Hotel which is worth about $750 to $1,500.  If I pay for the purchase on my Marriott credit card I will get another 48,000 points.  Is this a scam or a great benefit for buying from Marriott?  

Am I in the ball park if I say 125,000 is worth one percent, or $1,250?

Thanks all of you Marriott Tuggers


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## Hoc (Aug 4, 2006)

JoeMO said:
			
		

> Am I in the ball park if I say 125,000 is worth one percent, or $1,250?



I would say that's a pretty good, if somewhat conservative, estimate of their value.

Edit: Another way to look at it is to look at the packages you can get with rewards, which folks say are the best value for Marriott points.  For 250,000 points, you can get 120,000 frequent flyer miles plus a week at a category 6 hotel.  With some careful shopping, you could get the miles for a penny a mile (plus you would be getting additional travel used to get the miles, but we'll disregard that in order to account for the differing views on the value of miles), so 120,000 miles is worth $1,200.

You can get a week at a category 6 Marriott hotel for somewhere between $1,050 and $2,000 unless you absolutely don't care about getting a good price and you pay rack rates.

So, the 250,000 point package is worth somewhere between $2,250 and $3,200.  Accounting for the difficulty in getting award travel, I think that $2,500 as an estimate of value of the 250,000 point package is a good figure.  So, about a penny a point.


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## JimC (Aug 4, 2006)

1% is good from my experience.  Although it can vary somewhat as Hoc indicated.


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## pwrshift (Aug 4, 2006)

I love the points system, but I bought in the 'old days' when Marriott was a little more generous with points than they are today.  My last week was $18,000 and came with just over 500,000 MR points.  To spend $16,700 and get 125,000 points isn't a good deal IMO.

Getting value from the points system without a timeshare to trade is difficult if you are not a major traveller.  For instance: to get 125,000 MR points you'd have to stay in a $200 a night Marriott about 63 nights a year, perhaps less if you're and elite member.  Yet, just by depositing my Manor Club week I get 110,000 MR points for a cost of $635 maint/tax on my unit plus the Marriott trade fee ($104) so that's close to the 1 cent per point estimate.

However, how you spend those points is where the dollar value to you in cost savings varies tremendously.  I don't waste FF miles on economy flights and would prefer to earn miles if I flew that way...but business class seats cost as much as 5x as much as economy (a tougher financial decision) but usually only cost 50% more in FF miles than economy!  Price out business class fares to Paris and you'll see what I mean.  

Getting a nights stay in the Marriott Champs Elysses (sp) for $200 a night might be very difficult to get, even on priceline where Hoc has had some tremendous deals.   You can price a 7-nite stay on www.marriott.com to see what that hotel dollar 'value' is.  

Add the values of the business class air seats and the classy hotel and you'll have a dollar amount you can then compare to the number of points you'll need to take that trip....which I'll bet will come to considerably more than 1 cent a MR point.  

So the way to go is the Marriott air&hotel packages, where the 120k FF miles are virtually free and use them for business class seats - the ONLY way to travel more than 3 hours IMO.

Brian




			
				JoeMO said:
			
		

> I am considering buying at Horizons in Branson.  A Platinum week for $16,700 with 125,000 Rewards Points.  What I am trying to put a dollar value on is the points.  To earn that many points on the Marriot Rewards Credit Card you would have to spend $125,000 on regular purchase or $41,666 on Marriott purchases.  Oblviously the points are not worth that much.  I could get one to two weeks at a Marriott Hotel which is worth about $750 to $1,500.  If I pay for the purchase on my Marriott credit card I will get another 48,000 points.  Is this a scam or a great benefit for buying from Marriott?
> 
> Am I in the ball park if I say 125,000 is worth one percent, or $1,250?
> 
> Thanks all of you Marriott Tuggers


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## Dave M (Aug 4, 2006)

As you can see from *Hoc*'s and *pwrshift*'s responses, there are different calculations that one can use. I believe both analyses are correct. *Hoc*'s is probably a good calculation, if you would normally pay for economy plane tickets. *pwrshift*'s much higher valuation (perhaps as high as three or four cents per point) is probably on target if you would likely pay for business class ticket on an international trip as he might do. 

Thus, most calculations relate to how much you would save on your vacation costs by using the points. However, there is definitely a case to made for a suggestion that *pwrshift* often makes that your business class plane tickets and top-of-the-line hotel stay financed with Marriott Rewards points might well be the trip of a lifetime that has a very high value to you.


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## ondeadlin (Aug 4, 2006)

A US resident can get 17 points per dollar spent at Marriott properties (10 base points, 5 extra points for using the new Visa, 2 extra points for the elite status that automatically comes with the Visa).

So you'd need to spend $7,353 at Marriotts to earn 125,000 points, a FAR cry less than $40,000+

At $200 a night that would be 36 nights, incidentally.

As for the overall bottom-line value of 125,000 points ... I'd value it between $1500 and $2000, because it's halfway to 7 free nights in a Category 6 hotel and 120,000 frequent flier miles, which I'd value between $3,000 and $4,000, depending how it was used.

How do I come to that valuation? It would cost me at least $250 a night in a nice Hawaii Marriott, so that's $1,750, and with 120,000 miles I could get 3 coach class tickets, which usually run at least $600 , and have some miles left over.

You could push the value up more using "rack rates" for hotels (that no one pays) and crazy business class ticket prices (that no one I know pays out of their own pocket).

I use the Hawaii baseline because I think regular people actually do try to go to Hawaii once in a while, and that's roughly what they'd pay.


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## emmaddy (Aug 4, 2006)

*Point values*

One thing no one has mentioned in the use of points is upgrades when you use them.  Almost without fail, every time we use points in the J.W.,Marriott, and Renaissance hotels we get all kinds of perks.  Examples include: 9:00AM check-in in London after an overnight flight, along with a huge upgraded room.  Most hotels make you wait in the lobby until at least noon: Con. level  at the Baltimore Renaissance;corner room, floor to ceiling window view cherry blossom season at the JW D.C. and another time there a small suite with wet bar and sitting area;water view at Annapolis Marriott; small suite at Heidleburg Germany Marriott;2 room suite at Annapolis courtyard.  I always good naturedly say,"Feel free to upgrade us." I've been told that they will if possible because they like to treat their best customers well. If I get special treatment like this when I travel, I'm not that worried about the exact value of each point because some of these rooms would go for $400-500. All these upgrades were secured without any additional charge or points.


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## tsl (Aug 5, 2006)

*points.....*

I think another question you need to ask is will you use the points for hotels?  The airfare/hotel packages are good but Marriott really watered them down a few years ago and reduced the value of the points.  We initially bought our Marriotts from the developer to have the point option.  After Marriott changed the point system and gave you less for more points, we have never changed either of our weeks for points.   Further, we have discovered that we would much rather stay in a timeshare than a hotel so we don't really have a need for the hotel points.  It was for these reasons that we bought resale on our Starwood Harborside property and saved about half of what the developer was asking.

I agree w/ the point evaluations of the previous posters and that is how I decide to spend points when we need them.  For us, we don't use them often.  Since I fly for business and have an Advantage credit card, I have the airfare covered to the expensive places and purchase tickets when they are less than 2 cents per mile.  So if it were me, I would buy resale but it really depends on your travel preferences.


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## Hoc (Aug 5, 2006)

JoeMO said:
			
		

> A Platinum week for $16,700 with 125,000 Rewards Points.



So, it seems that, from a financial perspective, you have to look at it like this:

The week will cost you $16,700 less the points value of, say, $1,500 to be generous.  So, cost of $15,200.  If you ever resell it, you probably will get around $3,000-$4,000 for the resale at best.  Thus, your total cost of the unit is $13,700-$12,700 that you will never get back.  How much does it cost you to rent a week in Branson? $1,000 on average?  That means that, with the time value of money, you will have to use this unit for about 14-15 years before you break even.

Or you can buy a resale, forego the points, and pay $3,000-$4,000 for the unit, and break even in 4-5 years.  To me it's a no-brainer (though I would never buy Horizons nor would I buy in Branson because I am not likely to go there and it is not going to be a very good trader), but YMMV.

Edit: Oops.  Forgot about the annual fees.  I don't know what they are in this instance, but you need to figure those into the mix in order to evaluate the value of the purchase.  Since this is a Horizons, I would assume that the fees are probably around $500 a year, so double the average time to break even.


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## MikeM132 (Aug 7, 2006)

I'm in the middle of the road on points. I ONLY get points from personal use of a Marriott Visa and from buying time shares (with incentives). I have cashed in a couple years usage. The typical value is .01/point. Best redemption value, by FAR, is a travel reward. Hotel night stays and merchandise should be only considered if you are overloaded with points for some reason (terrible, and I mean TERRIBLE value for points for merchandise--check it out sometime at Marriottrewards.com). If you ever travel on business and can use your visa, stay at a Courtyard (or other Marriott), rent a Hertz car, etc. you can add up points very fast and really go on fabulous trips. Even me, who only does personal stuff, went to Hawaii for 2 weeks at really, really great hotels. We flew coach, as it takes twice the points (at least) for First Class. I can put up with a day of cramped seating for a free ticket to Hawaii anytime, but maybe that's just me. 
anyhow, the points thing is real; you really do get to use it and you do get to go to REALLY nice places and hotels. Free. 
Is it worth it to pay extra to get into it? Not if you can get Marriott points otherwise (work, personal, etc.) and if you can do something else with your week some year you can't use it (rent, deposit, etc.). Points are a nice feature, but not necessarily nice enough to pay a pile extra for them from Marriott. I wanted to buy my last 2 units resale but couldn't find them available to I bought again from Marriott just for convenience. Stupid?? Probably. 
I was very excited on buying our first week from Marriott (before I knew about TUG or resales) and it was laid out how we could get to Hawaii for 2 weeks in 2 years. This actually happened for us, just like they said. If you want to get a real jump start on accumulating points, buying from Marriott and paying the first year maintenance as "alternate use" (pay maint, cash in that year for points right when you buy) is a good way to get going. Buying the T/S using a Marriott Visa (yes, you can do this), ESPECIALLY the new Premier Visa, will get you a boatload of extra points (15 per dollar!). This only works if you buy from Marriott.


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## Dave M (Aug 7, 2006)

MikeM132 said:
			
		

> Buying the T/S using a Marriott Visa (yes, you can do this), ESPECIALLY the new Premier Visa, will get you a boatload of extra points (15 per dollar!). This only works if you buy from Marriott.


Whoops!

You might be confusing the points earned from using the card for a paid stay at a Marriott (15 points per dollar is most typical) with points earned from using the card on qualified Marriott purchases (5 points per dollar). Buying a timeshare from Marriott qualifies for the five-points-per-dollar points, but Marriott has recently been restricting how much can initially be put on the credit card and still qualify for other purchase incentives.


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## MikeM132 (Aug 7, 2006)

you're probably right. I just did this with 2 weeks, but I think I only got 3 points/dollar because I had the old silver card. Now I have the black one and get 5, I think. They let me charge the whole thing on the card both times, but I got EOY units and it was only about 31,000 total. Still, that was 90,000-odd points. Nearly enough for a transistor radio on the marriottreward merchandise site


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## PlasticIQ (Oct 19, 2009)

*re: how much are marriott pts worth*

Well, I have a slightly lower valuation for Marriott points at $0.0088 per point.  First disclaimer, I run a website focused on this stuff, so I'll be referencing that work below and linking to the post.  Second, and major disclaimer, its impossible to have a one-size-fits-all valuation...for example, some people may like to stay in lower category level hotels, others may not go away on vacations (and thus not be able to take advantage of travel packages); yet others may prefer to travel to different geographies, and so on.  The # of permutations is nearly endless.  

That said, I've tried to make some generalized assumptions that would be appropriate for a slightly *less sophisticated* traveler. If you sit around all day trying to max out value of MR points and are willing to change travel plans to get max value, then my estimate will certainly be too low.

Here's my basic approach: 

Firstly, I assume 75% of points are used for hotel stays, with 25% used for travel packages
Secondly, I assume that 80% of hotel stays are equally divided between categories 3-6, with 10% on cats 7-8 and 10% on cats 1-2.
I assume 25% of stays use pointsavers.
I assume an average stay of 3 nights, but that 1 out of each 5 trips has a stay of five nights (which earns a free night).
I pulled the market price of the hotel stays from the marriott website (always choosing the lowest available rate).  This assumes that the user is loyal to marriott; if the user would be willing to stay at any hotel brand, then it may have made more sense to use a priceline-type site.
I also reduce the value of the MR points by 5%. I refer to this as a non-cash penalty.  It's basically just to reinforce the concept that 1% cashback is always superior to a point valued at $0.01; a) for time value of money; b) terms and conditions can change, points can expire...and so on...its a minor adjustment.

If you want to get into the nitty gritty, you can check out the post at http://www.plasticiq.com/blog/2009/09/estimating-value-of-marriott-rewards-points/

Again, its not hard to poke holes in this analysis--all someone has to do is say they travel 100% of the time via travel packages.  Just as an aside, if that were the case, my point value estimate would still be only $0.0104 per point.  It may be that folks are traveling during higher peak times and thus the market rate of the packages is higher.  This is just my stab at something...

Always curious to get comments/feedback to help me improve the logic.


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## applegirl (Oct 19, 2009)

Just think how many nights you could stay in a nice Marriott hotel for the initial purchase price you mention.  Lots!!!!!

Resale weeks at the Branson property can go for a song and a dance, especially now which is one of the best times to buy resale, right before all the yearly MF's are due.

I say stick around here for a while and figure out if resale or developer is for you!

Janna









JoeMO said:


> I am considering buying at Horizons in Branson.  A Platinum week for $16,700 with 125,000 Rewards Points.  What I am trying to put a dollar value on is the points.  To earn that many points on the Marriot Rewards Credit Card you would have to spend $125,000 on regular purchase or $41,666 on Marriott purchases.  Oblviously the points are not worth that much.  I could get one to two weeks at a Marriott Hotel which is worth about $750 to $1,500.  If I pay for the purchase on my Marriott credit card I will get another 48,000 points.  Is this a scam or a great benefit for buying from Marriott?
> 
> Am I in the ball park if I say 125,000 is worth one percent, or $1,250?
> 
> Thanks all of you Marriott Tuggers


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## jimf41 (Oct 19, 2009)

I don't think there is any one answer to this question. I'm staying at the Morningstar in STT on points in February for five days. 120,000 pts plus $110 per night upcharge. The best cash rate is $634. Subtract the upcharge to make things even and the total cash is $2620. That's .0218 per point. It's a good deal and I do it every year on points plus the upcharge. It's actually higher than that because I earn points on the cash upcharge and I pay with a gift card and I'm Platinum. 

I'm staying in Clearwater FL at the Marriott Sand Key in November. Cash rate $101 per night or $505 total. 100,000 points to stay there and that works out to .00505 per point. It's not a good deal so I'll pay cash there.

The point is there is no answer as to what a point is worth. I'm sure Marriott has to place some accounting value to them but it really depends on how, when and where you use them.


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## kjd (Oct 20, 2009)

Jim Freeman: You are exactly right.  The value of points is determined by how you use them.  Other examples of this are using points in large cities at downtown hotels where the weekday rate is double or triple the weekend rate.  Or, in vacation weekend areas like Monterey CA and Savannah GA where the weekend rate is usually double the weekday rate.  Many of these hotels don't even accept points on weekends.

I have found that it's probably best to combine cash with points to get maximum value as mentioned earlier.  The concept of value varies between individuals and circumstances and therefore there is no one correct answer.


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## GetawaysRus (Oct 20, 2009)

There's a recent discussion thread on FlyerTalk on this same topic.
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/marriott-rewards/136148-whats-value-marriott-rewards-point.html

The fellow who posted above (PlasticIQ) also has posted there.

If one is being given points (as a "gift" when purchasing a timeshare unit directly from Marriott), then I use about a penny a point as a simple rule of thumb.  The same goes for a timeshare tour - if Marriott will give me 15,000 points for taking a timeshare tour, I think that is worth (ballpark) $150.

If one is trading one's timeshare usage for points, then it is possible to do a simple calculation.  The cost of these points would be your annual maintenance fee plus annual property tax plus the cost of trading for points (currently $104) in the numerator, and then divide by the total number of points you will be receiving for the trade in the denominator.  For example, let's say your annual timeshare maintenance fee is $850 and your annual property tax is $150, but you can get 110,000 points for trading in your unit.  The "cost" of the points you can get by trading this unit is (850 + 150 + 104) divided by 110,000.  That works out to 1.00363 cents per point.  (I admit that this is a simplification, since it doesn't factor in the lost value on the money you spent to buy the unit from the developer.  But that money is long ago gone anyway, so I didn't include it.)

That last calculation also helps you understand the value of the points you receive.  If you use 100,000 of those points to purchase a round trip business class air ticket to Europe that normally sells for (let's make up a number) $4000, you have redemmed your points at about 4 cents to the point.  So you "spent" 1 cent per point but redeemed at 4 cents per point.  That's a win, and that's why so many people say that the Marriott travel packages are the best use of points.


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## Cobra1950 (Oct 20, 2009)

I have been in the Marriott points game for about 10 years, back in the "good old days" so far as value of points is concerned.  In the end, with the severe Marriott devaluation (no different from other hotel companies like Holiday Inn) of points and the uncertainty of the rumored new system coming in next year with even further devaluation-the most important factor remains if you really like the location of the unit you are buying and does it have trade value you can use on any system, be it internal, II or RCI?
    Marriott points we have done pretty good at accumulating over the last few years are on a value par with some pretty poor performing stocks-not bad enought to throw away yet but not worth spending much time worrying about what to do with. 
     If I had time to use them I would burn up all this year rather than wait.


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## bobpark56 (Jul 18, 2012)

Does anyone have useful updates for this thread? Marriott used to say 1 point was worth $0.0125. I'm having trouble getting up to a penny a point for the hotels & resorts I have been checking on (compared to using senior rates). Is any senior doing significantly better? 

It seems like Marriott has significantly deflated the value of our points...especially for stays at resort villas.

I'm thinking of ceasing use of my Marriott Rewards card. As of now, I use it only for restaurant dining, where we supposedly get 2 points per dollar spent...though I have trouble verifying this. Using my SPG card seems to bring better value per dollar spent.

Ideas, anyone?


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## LAX Mom (Jul 18, 2012)

I use $.01 per point valuation for MR points. If I can pay cash cheaper than that I don't use the points. That's what they are worth to me. 

Most of my point redemptions have been in expensive hotels in Europe. We stayed 5 nights at the Amsterdam Marriott last April for 120,000 points (booked before it bumped to a category 7). It would have cost more than $1,200 if I'd paid for the room. I try to stay 5 nights (used to be 7) and get the 5th night free. We've also used points to stay at the Grand Flora in Rome a couple of times and Copenhagen.


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## dioxide45 (Jul 18, 2012)

bobpark56 said:


> Does anyone have useful updates for this thread? Marriott used to say 1 point was worth $0.0125. I'm having trouble getting up to a penny a point for the hotels & resorts I have been checking on (compared to using senior rates). Is any senior doing significantly better?
> 
> It seems like Marriott has significantly deflated the value of our points...especially for stays at resort villas.
> 
> ...



How are you using your points. Are you cashing them in for just standard hotel certificates for a night or more, or are you using them for travel packages? Travel packages are where the real value is. Getting the airline miles is where you can really reap the benefits. If you are just using small amounts of point for nightly or short stays and not on the travel packages, it will be hard to get to $0.01 per point in use value.


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## bobpark56 (Jul 18, 2012)

dioxide45 said:


> How are you using your points.



We generally use them for 5th night free stays in a category 4 or 5 hotel (perhaps also a rare category 3)...and compare that to senior rates. We are still looking for opportunities to use points for a vacation club villa stay. Those used to be 150,000 points for 7 nights, but nothing comes close to that anymore.

164,000 points did get us 2 marvelous 2BR March weeks at Marriott Marbella 2 years ago, but that was a special deal we stumbled onto outside normal Marriott channels (got it from the resort itself). I would love to find something like that again.


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