# My Sales Presentation (aka Owner Update)



## alwysonvac (May 20, 2018)

I haven’t done a HGVC presentation since 2010.

Honestly, I absolutely hate going to presentations because of the lies but my DH talked me into it after they offered both the $100 Visa gift card and $100 HGVC Elevated Reward (which we used for dinner at the onsite restaurant District Tap).

So for the presentation, I decided to take a different approach - act dumb to see how far they would go and use this as a learning experience to warning folks what they’re currently telling folks at these sales presentation.

Here’s what the sales person laid out (see photo).





He started his drawing from the bottom and worked his way up.
He starts by telling us that HGVC provides us with access to 70 resorts at 9 months, Silver Honors Status and 25:1 HGVC conversion rate. For the years that we don’t we use our HGVC POINTS, we can put them in our VAULT (or as he called it our 401V) where they never expire.

LOL, at that point DH asked the salesman what is the VAULT? Is that something new?  and then DH looked at me. I said it was our HILTON HONORS account before the salesman had a chance to reply. Lol, I should have kept my mouth shut to see how the salesman would have replied. DH knew how bad that idea was and didn’t say a word. 

The salesman went on to tell us that most members are unaware that they can use their points for Airfare, Cruises, Car Rental and Hotels. He said with HGVC members can basically leave their credit cards at home when they travel and use their HGVC points for everything.  

The salesman said they have this new program “By Hilton Club”.  This is our one time opportunity to upgrade into this new program. If we don’t upgrade today then we need to sign that we decided to deny this one time upgrade offer. He said “By Hilton Club”will have locations in DC, Chicago, Charleston, Barbados, Boston, San Francisco and NYC.

He went on to say if we buy 5100 Points today, as a “By Hilton Club” owner, we’ll have access to these urban locations as well as the 70 HGVC resorts,  Honors Gold Status, 50:1 Honors Conversion Rate, Inclusive Fee and Right of First Refusal.

He said some Elite members were mad about this new program since 14k Elite owners spend around $96k with HGVC. HOWEVER HGVC is offering 100% equity towards this new program. I asked him what season was the 5100 Points associated with and how much did it cost?  He told us that 5,100 Points was for a one bedroom at the District during Gold Season and it was selling for $36k. I thought is was odd that they no longer provide a price sheet but I guess it’s how they get folks to buy the lowest option available without explaining how the program works then hit buyers with an upgrade later.

The salesman asked if we wanted to proceed so he could begin to work the numbers.
That’s when he looked into his folder and discovered we were resale owners. His records showed the last time we took a sales presentation was in 2010 as a result of a VIP Package.

At that point, he said you’re resale owners, you’re not going to buy. You probably bought your week for $2,000. I corrected the salesman saying that it wasn’t $2k since we bought resale years ago. Lol, then DH took the opportunity to also point out that HGVC has ROFR on HGVC resorts too and their decline allowed us to buy resale.

The salesman let us go and we got our free gifts for the presentation.

Update: Fixed typos


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## Panina (May 21, 2018)

alwysonvac said:


> I haven’t done a HGVC presentation since 2010.
> 
> Honestly, I absolutely hate going to presentations because of the lies but my DH talked me into it after they offered both the $100 Visa gift card and $100 HGVC Elevated Reward (which we used for dinner at the onsite restaurant District Tap).
> 
> ...



Amazing he didn’t check up front if you were a resale owner.


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## klpca (May 21, 2018)

alwysonvac said:


> Lol, then DH took the opportunity to also point out that HGVC has ROFR on HGVC resorts too *and their decline allowed us to buy resale*.


 Love it!



Panina said:


> Amazing he didn’t check up front if you were a resale owner.


He'll never make that mistake again.


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## PigsDad (May 21, 2018)

You turned down a "one time opportunity"?  Are you crazy??? 

Great post!  The "vault" / "401V" is hilarious.  Did you press them on the point devaluation that constantly happens with HHonors rewards?  I wonder what their answer would be to that.

Kurt


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## Maverick1963 (May 21, 2018)

From a different angle... HGVC reps appear to be thinking HGVC actual value is $2,000 per week.  I am afraid their perception is worse than ours.

I thought I heard HGVC decided not to give out gifts to resale owners.  I have not done the presentation for some years.  If I see any good chance, I may give it a try.


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## CalGalTraveler (May 21, 2018)

Love the locations but he may be getting ahead of his skis. 

Although 5100 will get you into W57 for a week gold or a 5 - 6 day platinum, I am not sure that would get you much in the Residences or these other locations when they come on-line except in dead of winter given the way they have been inflating the points charts on newer properties.


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## GregT (May 21, 2018)

Interesting story, thanks for posting it.  Love the new locations, will believe it when we see them.  Thanks again!

Best,

Greg


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## JohnPaul (May 21, 2018)

CalGalTraveler said:


> Love the locations but he may be getting ahead of his skis.
> 
> Although 5100 will get you into W57 for a week gold or a 5 - 6 day platinum, I am not sure that would get you much in the Residences or these other locations when they come on-line except in dead of winter given the way they have been inflating the points charts on newer properties.



5100 points will get you a studio premier (lowest priced unit) at The Residences for a week in Gold season.  Studio PH is 14400 a week platinum and 1 bedroom PH is 16800 platinum at The Residences.

At W57th 5100 gets you a week in a  studio premier (higher floors) in gold or a week in a studio plus during gold is 3750.  Platinum rates are 7200/5250.


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## alwysonvac (May 21, 2018)

Regarding the locations...

HGVC might be working in partnership with Park Hotels & Resorts (one of the Hilton spin-offs).

Park Hotels & Resorts owns the following resorts that already have HGVC relationships:

Hilton Hawaiian Village
Hilton Waikoloa Village
New York Hilton Midtown
Embassy Suites Georgetown

My guess is that some of the additional “By Hilton Club” locations will come from the  Park Hotels & Resorts properties. Here’s the full list of properties owned by Park Hotels & Resorts - http://www.pkhotelsandresorts.com/portfolio


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## alwysonvac (May 21, 2018)

PigsDad said:


> You turned down a "one time opportunity"?  Are you crazy???
> 
> Great post!  The "vault" / "401V" is hilarious.  Did you press them on the point devaluation that constantly happens with HHonors rewards?  I wonder what their answer would be to that.
> 
> Kurt



Yeah I couldn’t believe it when he said “*401V*”.  

Any other day I would have challenged that statement. But I had already decided that I wasn’t going to argue any points. I really wanted to observe the latest sales spin and understand what new owners are being told.

I was simply amazed that there was no price list, no discussion of room options or seasons. I guess their latest sales strategy is simply to get you to buy in (at the lowest level) then once you’re an owner, they’ll try to get you to upgrade for more points, another property and/or Elite status.


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## JohnPaul (May 22, 2018)

alwysonvac said:


> Regarding the locations...
> 
> HGVC might be working in partnership with Park Hotels & Resorts (one of the Hilton spin-offs).
> 
> ...




Well, they have the Hilton SF and the Parc 55 in San Francisco which is one of the cities they keep mentioning.  They also have the Hilton Chicago which is another location that keeps coming up.


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## Cyberc (May 22, 2018)

JohnPaul said:


> At W57th 5100 gets you a week in a  studio premier (higher floors) in gold or a week in a studio plus during gold is 3750.  Platinum rates are 7200/5250.



I just bought 5100 studio premier points at w57 and even though it’s in gold season the MF is the same as the 5250 platinum unit. The sales price is however much lower and even though is “loose” 150 points annually compared to the 5250 I can definitely live with that now that I got the unit that much cheaper. 

When we go the next time we will do the update as it has been “fun” in the past and those 60min are okey spend for the gifts. 

I remember last time we went to an update in nyc in 2016 we weren’t given the option to choose a season either they had one preselected for us iirc it was platinum 7200 points at approx $56-57k at the residence they would then take back our vegas for full price so the total would be $28k plus a load of bonus points.


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## Sapper (May 22, 2018)

JohnPaul said:


> Well, they have the Hilton SF and the Parc 55 in San Francisco which is one of the cities they keep mentioning.  They also have the Hilton Chicago which is another location that keeps coming up.



I would like to see something comparable to W57 in SFO. My wife would like something similar in Chicago. If they do build this out, we would probably buy in. 

Let's see, how long until resale units hit eBay?  Haha.


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## jehb2 (May 22, 2018)

That was fun to read and the drawing is hilarious.  I can hear salesmen from the past saying “the ratio is 25:1 but what we’re going to do for you is give you 50:1.” Salesman walking by says “get outta here.”  (As in you’ve got to be kidding). My salesman:  No, I’m going to do it. I’m going to get in trouble but I’m going to do it. Other salesman: well all right then.  And they high five.


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## CalGalTraveler (May 22, 2018)

...and all for the low low price of $125,000.


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## GT75 (May 22, 2018)

CalGalTraveler said:


> ...and all for the low low price of $125,000.



...and all for only the low low price of $125,000.


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## GT75 (May 22, 2018)

@alwysonvac, I am trying to read one of places which the salesperson wrote at the top of drawing.     What does it say between Boston and Charleston?   Is that Barbados?


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## dayooper (May 22, 2018)

GT75 said:


> @alwysonvac, I am trying to read one of places which the salesperson wrote at the top of drawing.     What does it say between Boston and Charleston?   Is that Barbados?



Not alwaysonvac, but I believe so. My students come up with better flow charts than that mess.


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## GT75 (May 22, 2018)

dayooper said:


> but I believe so.



Well, if it is Barbados, that doesn't seem like a very urban place to me.


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## SmithOp (May 22, 2018)

I just spent two weeks in Hawaii, one week Bay Club, one week Kingsland.

The BC week was RCI exchange, when I got to the concierge desk for parking pass she started to ask me about an update.  I told her I was an owner, a couple clicks later she handed over the pass and my welcome gift (the fabric beach bag).

When I checked in to KL I didn’t even get offered, just the pass and she was out of bags so I got the key ring.

Apparently I’m on the naughty list - resale owner.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro


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## dayooper (May 22, 2018)

GT75 said:


> Well, if it is Barbados, that doesn't seem like a very urban place to me.



No, it doesn’t seem very urban to me either. Makes me wonder if that’s the route they are headed with new properties, trying to force members to purchase By Hilton Club points at jacked up prices. Hopefully, they will get some different properties in the Caribbean.


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## GT75 (May 22, 2018)

dayooper said:


> Makes me wonder if that’s the route they are headed with new properties, trying to force members to purchase By Hilton Club points at jacked up prices.



I am wondering the exact same thing.    So far, I have no interest in these new properties.    I just don't see the benefit at all to me anyway.    As others have stated, I can book a hotel room for the couple of nights in the last 40 years that I have spend in either NYC or DC.    Actually, it would be much better for me to use HH points anyway that I have been building up in my account.     I do need to use them somewhere.    They have added The Bay Forest Odawara and if they also add Barbados to by Hilton Club, then I may need to evaluate how that plays out.


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## alwysonvac (May 22, 2018)

GT75 said:


> @alwysonvac, I am trying to read one of places which the salesperson wrote at the top of drawing.     What does it say between Boston and Charleston?   Is that Barbados?



The sales person wrote DC, Chicago, Charleston, Barbados, Boston, San Francisco and NYC.
_But we have to take some locations with a grain of salt since it came from sales _


For those that don't know, so far there are four "By Hilton Club" properties in the US 

New York - West 57th Street by Hilton Club - link
The District by Hilton Club - link
New York -  The Residences by Hilton Club scheduled to open in June 2018 - link

Charleston -  Liberty Place Charleston by Hilton Club) anticipated to open in the second quarter of 2020 - link


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## GT75 (May 22, 2018)

alwysonvac said:


> But we have to take some locations with a grain of salt since it came from sales



I know but always interesting entertainment. 



alwysonvac said:


> or those that don't know, so far there are four "By Hilton Club" properties in the US



Correct  and also The Bay Forest Odawara by Hilton Club in Japan.


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## dayooper (May 22, 2018)

Maybe this was discussed earlier, but HGVC is rumored to be investing in The Crane resort in Barbados. Maybe the sales weasle was referencing that rumor. 

https://www.tripadvisor.com/ShowTopic-g147262-i230-k10212705-The_Crane_semi_take_over-Barbados.html


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## CalGalTraveler (May 22, 2018)

I would love a Barbados property to visit. However, I doubt it will be "By Hilton Club" because recently added tropical resorts such as the Waikoloa Towers and Grand Islander are not.  Sales was trying to sell @alwysonvac on upgrading to Hilton Club so everything will fall into that category to get the sale.  Lips...


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## PigsDad (May 22, 2018)

CalGalTraveler said:


> I would love a Barbados property to visit. However, I doubt it will be "By Hilton Club" because recently added tropical resorts such as the Waikoloa Towers and Grand Islander are not.  Sales was trying to sell @alwysonvac on upgrading to Hilton Club so everything will fall into that category to get the sale.  Lips...


However, an argument for it being a By Hilton Club will be (from what I have read) most likely a portion of the existing "The Crane" property, just like the other By Hilton Club properties are part of an existing hotel.  I hope that I am wrong though...

Kurt


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## brp (May 22, 2018)

PigsDad said:


> ...just like the other By Hilton Club properties are part of an existing hotel.  I hope that I am wrong though...
> 
> Kurt



Except for W. 57th.

Cheers.


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## CalGalTraveler (May 23, 2018)

I believe Kalia contains hotel rooms and is shared with HHV hotel, Towers with Waikoloa hotel.


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## frank808 (May 23, 2018)

CalGalTraveler said:


> I believe Kalia contains hotel rooms and is shared with HHV hotel, Towers with Waikoloa hotel.


It was about 7-10 floors in kalita that were hgvc.  The rest of the floors are hotel rooms.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


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## Cyberc (May 23, 2018)

GT75 said:


> .....and if they also add Barbados to by Hilton Club, then I may need to evaluate how that plays out.





dayooper said:


> Maybe this was discussed earlier, but HGVC is rumored to be investing in The Crane resort in Barbados. Maybe the sales weasle was referencing that rumor.
> 
> https://www.tripadvisor.com/ShowTopic-g147262-i230-k10212705-The_Crane_semi_take_over-Barbados.html



IMO barbados is not urban but it would be nice though. Just like he new hotel n Japan its a nice addition but its not urban. IMO using the "by hilton club" brand for urban locations only would have given it a more exclusive touch, but now when they mix them it will just be another HGVC with higher point requirements. Not that its a bad thing, but I dont really see the need to. The only "extra" you get compared to the normal HGVC is the 60 day booking window. 

Buyers need to decide if that extra booking window is worth the higher MF, which the newer properties has on top of the higher points requirement and buyin costs. Unfortunately new members dont know any of this, they either buy what they are presented or dont buy.


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## 1Kflyerguy (May 23, 2018)

alwysonvac said:


> Yeah I couldn’t believe it when he said “*401V*”.
> 
> Any other day I would have challenged that statement. But I had already decided that I wasn’t going to argue any points. I really wanted to observe the latest sales spin and understand what new owners are being told.
> 
> I was simply amazed that there was no price list, no discussion of room options or seasons. I guess their latest sales strategy is simply to get you to buy in (at the lowest level) then once you’re an owner, they’ll try to get you to upgrade for more points, another property and/or Elite status.



They have used the "401V" lingo in at least my past three presentations outside of Hawaii.  It feels like in Hawaii they try and sell the resort, then everywhere else they are selling the point conversation.  

At W57 the sales guy had a computer simulation where he asked me to name the average cost of a hotel room,  then his program showed the cost over the next 10 or years based on the inflation rate for hotels.  That does make the club look compelling until you realize the honors rate will be ratcheting up with inflation as well.

As for the drawings / flow charts, I think they must try to make those sloppy on purpose..


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## Nomad420 (May 23, 2018)

alwysonvac said:


> The sales person wrote DC, Chicago, Charleston, Barbados, Boston, San Francisco and NYC.
> _But we have to take some locations with a grain of salt since it came from sales _
> 
> 
> ...



I assumed the HCNY which is below the The Residences on 6th Ave was also a "By Hilton Club" or am I incorrect?


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## Cyberc (May 23, 2018)

Nomad420 said:


> I assumed the HCNY which is below the The Residences on 6th Ave was also a "By Hilton Club" or am I incorrect?



Unfortunately not. The club below the residence club is "The hilton club - new york" and thats actually yet another club within the club. Thats also why its unbookable for everyone else except for "The hilton Club - new york" owners.


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## Nomad420 (May 23, 2018)

1Kflyerguy said:


> At W57 the sales guy had a computer simulation where he asked me to name the average cost of a hotel room,  then his program showed the cost over the next 10 or years based on the inflation rate for hotels.  That does make the club look compelling until you realize the honors rate will be ratcheting up with inflation as well.
> 
> As for the drawings / flow charts, I think they must try to make those sloppy on purpose..



It sounds like I had the same sales guy at W57th.  The devaluation of HH points over even the last couple of years is near criminal!  Even using the 50 to 1 conversion that the HC offers it is a loose loose situation.


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## Cyberc (May 23, 2018)

Nomad420 said:


> It sounds like I had the same sales guy at W57th.  The devaluation of HH points over even the last couple of years is near criminal!  Even using the 50 to 1 conversion that the HC offers it is a loose loose situation.



Makes me even more happy that I dont convert my HGVC points to HH.


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## Nomad420 (May 23, 2018)

Cyberc said:


> Unfortunately not. The club below the residence club is "The hilton club - new york" and thats actually yet another club within the club. Thats also why its unbookable for everyone else except for "The hilton Club - new york" owners.



Well that is awfully confusing especially since I own in the place!?


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## alwysonvac (May 23, 2018)

1Kflyerguy said:


> They have used the "401V" lingo in at least my past three presentations outside of Hawaii.  It feels like in Hawaii they try and sell the resort, then everywhere else they are selling the point conversation.
> 
> At W57 the sales guy had a computer simulation where he asked me to name the average cost of a hotel room,  then his program showed the cost over the next 10 or years based on the inflation rate for hotels.  That does make the club look compelling until you realize the honors rate will be ratcheting up with inflation as well.
> 
> As for the drawings / flow charts, I think they must try to make those sloppy on purpose..



Interesting...Thanks for sharing.
Perhaps we need to beef up the Honors section in the sticky thread


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## 1Kflyerguy (May 24, 2018)

JohnPaul said:


> Well, they have the Hilton SF and the Parc 55 in San Francisco which is one of the cities they keep mentioning.  They also have the Hilton Chicago which is another location that keeps coming up.



I was thinking the same thing about SF.  Parc 55 has some nice 1 bedroom suites on the top floors that would be easy conversations.  But i think an issue with SF is the fact that hotel market is very tight.  Both of the those hotels frequently sell out, and at premium prices. I am sure it was easy to convince Hilton and Parc to make a deal on the Ocean Tower conversation as the hotel was under utilized.  That is not the case in the San Francisco.


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## dayooper (May 24, 2018)

1Kflyerguy said:


> I was thinking the same thing about SF.  Parc 55 has some nice 1 bedroom suites on the top floors that would be easy conversations.  But i think an issue with SF is the fact that hotel market is very tight.  Both of the those hotels frequently sell out, and at premium prices. I am sure it was easy to convince Hilton and Parc to make a deal on the Ocean Tower conversation as the hotel was under utilized.  That is not the case in the San Francisco.



Maybe they already have the property and are going to expand? If so, could Club Donatello be the answer? They already have non standard points for studios (5250 per week platinum). Much like the other Urban locations, it's in the heart of SF. Maybe HGVC is acquiring more rooms there. Or maybe the sales weasel was just using The Donatello as a marketing ploy.

https://club.hiltongrandvacations.com/en/resort/california/club-donatello/


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## GT75 (May 24, 2018)

alwysonvac said:


> Perhaps we need to beef up the Honors section in the sticky thread



That of course can happen.     Usually, a member will not get the higher (either 1 HGVC club to 25 HH) *unless next years points *are converted.   Members converting the *entire annual allotment of ClubPoints *attributable to their Home Week at 57th Street Vacation Suites, The Residences by Hilton Club, The District by Hilton Club or Owners of penthouse units at the Grand Waikikian and Grand Islander receive 1 to 50 conversion rate (they will only receive 1 to 25 for less than the full amount).

The Hilton Club - NY can convert any number of next years allotment of Club points to HH at 1 to 50 ratio. Otherwise, this years club points is 1 club to 25 HH ratio.

Elite Plus and Premier members can convert any amount of this years club points to HH at 1 to 25 ratio.

IMO, even if I would get 1 club point to 50 HH, I still think that is a very poor use of my points.


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## CalGalTraveler (May 24, 2018)

GT75 said:


> That of course can happen.
> 
> IMO, even if I would get 1 club point to 50 HH, I still think that is a very poor use of my points.



I agree, we have never converted our W57 points to HH and probably never will unless a few extra points are needed in a pinch.  FWIW we have so many points and free nights from our Hilton, SPG, IHG credit cards that we don't need the points.


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## GT75 (May 24, 2018)

CalGalTraveler said:


> FWIW we have so many points and free nights from our Hilton, SPG, IHG credit cards that we don't need the points.



Same here.     Actually, I am wondering now what I will be using my HH points that I have been earning.    I would like to actually have more HGVC points.   Maybe we should request a conversion of the other way.     I would be happy  with the same conversion ratio.


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## Cyberc (May 24, 2018)

GT75 said:


> Same here.     Actually, I am wondering now what I will be using my HH points that I have been earning.    I would like to actually have more HGVC points.   Maybe we should request a conversion of the other way.     I would be happy  with the same conversion ratio.



I would be glad if they just offered to buy OneTimeUse points (just lige DVC) to complete a reservation. They could make some extra $$ that way.


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## MikeinSoCal (May 25, 2018)

Cyberc said:


> I would be glad if they just offered to buy OneTimeUse points (just lige DVC) to complete a reservation. They could make some extra $$ that way.


The member to member points transfer option you brought up, makes this somewhat of a possibility.


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## rickandcindy23 (May 26, 2018)

SmithOp said:


> I just spent two weeks in Hawaii, one week Bay Club, one week Kingsland.
> 
> The BC week was RCI exchange, when I got to the concierge desk for parking pass she started to ask me about an update.  I told her I was an owner, a couple clicks later she handed over the pass and my welcome gift (the fabric beach bag).
> 
> ...


What did you think of Bay Club?  I am thinking of booking it through exchange and wondered if a review I read is off base.  It sounds like it was dark and dreary.


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## Talent312 (May 26, 2018)

rickandcindy23 said:


> What did you think of Bay Club?  I am thinking of booking it through exchange and wondered if a review I read is off base.  It sounds like it was dark and dreary.



Huh? The Bay Club I know is not that. The TS we had was bright + airy. The balconies were huge. We felt spoiled. The resort itself was a bit dull, but that just meant finding your own activities. With a rental car, that was no issue.

.


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## Here There (May 27, 2018)

Cyberc said:


> I remember last time we went to an update in nyc in 2016 we weren’t given the option to choose a season either they had one preselected for us iirc it was platinum 7200 points at approx $56-57k at the residence they would then take back our vegas for full price so the total would be $28k plus a load of bonus points.


I just got a steal of a deal then when I discovered this past week that my ebay purchase for 7200 platinum points passed ROFR at $10,001.


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## Panina (May 27, 2018)

Here There said:


> I just got a steal of a deal then when I discovered this past week that my ebay purchase for 7200 platinum points passed ROFR at $10,001.


Congratulations, where did you end up buying?


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## Cyberc (May 27, 2018)

Panina said:


> Congratulations, where did you end up buying?


I guess it was the residence in New York?


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## Cyberc (May 27, 2018)

Here There said:


> I just got a steal of a deal then when I discovered this past week that my ebay purchase for 7200 platinum points passed ROFR at $10,001.


Congrats that’s a good price.


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## Here There (May 27, 2018)

Yes it was for The Residences at NYC.  Somewhat ironic because earlier in March I rescinded an EOY developers purchase for ~$39k all in, due to the huge buy-in cost, but still wanted a slice of the BigApple.  So when the ebay listing appeared I was prepared to make a hail-Mary bid, which surprisingly passed ROFR.


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## Panina (May 27, 2018)

Here There said:


> Yes it was for The Residences at NYC.  Somewhat ironic because earlier in March I rescinded an EOY developers purchase for ~$39k all in, due to the huge buy-in cost, but still wanted a slice of the BigApple.  So when the ebay listing appeared I was prepared to make a hail-Mary bid, which surprisingly passed ROFR.


That is a good price.  It shows don’t let ROFR stop you from trying to get a good deal. Some of the good ones slip through.


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## GT75 (May 27, 2018)

Wow, The Residences.    That is an amazing price.     Congratulations.


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## CalGalTraveler (May 27, 2018)

Wow. Perhaps they haven't set up their ROFR mechanism since Residences don't officially open until June 1.  I am visiting NY soon. When I get pitched to buy Residences I can now say,

_"Why on earth would I consider buying this at developer prices when I just learned that someone bought resale 7200 points for $10,000 on Ebay that passed ROFR?"_

I believe this is the listing:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/The-Reside...664826?hash=item4b3c9ffbba:g:VmIAAOSwCHZap~vA

For future reference: Is VacationPropertiesForLess Robbert Gaarlandt a reputable seller on eBay?  FWIW...I never heard of him and thought the price was too good to be true so wrote it off as a scam.

Congrats on a great find.


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## Panina (May 27, 2018)

CalGalTraveler said:


> Wow. Perhaps they haven't set up their ROFR mechanism since it doesn't officially open until June 1.  I am visiting NY soon. When I get pitched to buy Residences I can now say,
> 
> _"Why on earth would I consider buying this at developer prices when I just learned that someone bought resale 7200 points for $10,000 on Ebay that passed ROFR?"_
> 
> ...


I am stunned too.  Hope he is legit.


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## Panina (May 27, 2018)

Here There said:


> I just got a steal of a deal then when I discovered this past week that my ebay purchase for 7200 platinum points passed ROFR at $10,001.


Who told you that you passed ROFR? Did you see the estoppel? Just want you to make sure this is a legit deal.


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## Arimaas (May 28, 2018)

CalGalTraveler said:


> Wow. Perhaps they haven't set up their ROFR mechanism since Residences don't officially open until June 1.  I am visiting NY soon. When I get pitched to buy Residences I can now say,
> 
> _"Why on earth would I consider buying this at developer prices when I just learned that someone bought resale 7200 points for $10,000 on Ebay that passed ROFR?"_
> 
> ...



I bought a Wyndham property off him. Still waiting for the transfer (Wyndham tends to take forever) but they are very responsive Any time I email.


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## Here There (May 29, 2018)

Panina said:


> Who told you that you passed ROFR? Did you see the estoppel? Just want you to make sure this is a legit deal.


I was informed by their front office when my runner-up bid was accepted that the purchase would need to pass ROFR and that they would keep me informed on all the stages of the transfer process.  So far I've been pleased with their accessibility and openness of communications, which I found to be notches above the handful of ebay escrow companies I dealt with in the recent past.
I was all set to go with the flow when news broke re MVC=>ILG. Too nervous to know how this industry shake-up would affect the outcome of my winning bid I emailed their FO only to find out that on the same day they received news that the resort had chosen not to exercise ROFR. Now in the deed prep phase, I would assume that their front office will be meticulous to assure that the doc is impeccable and title flawless before the title is recorded.
Just to add an extra layer of protection, I did charge the purchase amount via credit card.  And yes, I have seen the estoppel.


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## Panina (May 29, 2018)

Here There said:


> I was informed by their front office when my runner-up bid was accepted that the purchase would need to pass ROFR and that they would keep me informed on all the stages of the transfer process.  So far I've been pleased with their accessibility and openness of communications, which I found to be notches above the handful of ebay escrow companies I dealt with in the recent past.
> I was all set to go with the flow when news broke re MVC=>ILG. Too nervous to know how this industry shake-up would affect the outcome of my winning bid I emailed their FO only to find out that on the same day they received news that the resort had chosen not to exercise ROFR. Now in the deed prep phase, I would assume that their front office will be meticulous to assure that the doc is impeccable and title flawless before the title is recorded.
> Just to add an extra layer of protection, I did charge the purchase amount via credit card.  And yes, I have seen the estoppel.


Keep us informed when closing happens so we can celebrate with you!


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## Jon77 (May 31, 2018)

We had an "Owners Update" at the Parc Soleil during the 2nd week of April 2018. We are HGVC members but not owners at the Parc Soleil. When we were picking up our parking pass we were offered discount Universal tickets if we attended so we decided to go. Without going into a lot of detail we had a similar experience as alwaysonvac. We did pick up several documents from the table as we left one of which is similar to the one alwaysonvac posted. So I thought I would post the copy that we got for comparison purposes. Incidentally the 299 a month was for 10 years. Interesting enough was that he knew we had bought our Flamingo timeshare resale but was willing to take our money on this transaction.  


 

Jon77


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## alwysonvac (May 31, 2018)

Jon77 thanks for sharing 

We really didn’t get into numbers once our salesman discovered we were resale owners. 

I’m curious was this an upgrade to THE DISTRICT BY HILTON CLUB?
I didn’t follow the document - What does ND, PC and DC mean?

 $51,990 ND?
-$15,830 PC?
__________
$36,160 DC?
-$11,900 trade in?
__________
 $21,260 New money they wanted to get from you


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## Jon77 (Jun 8, 2018)

The $11,900 was a trade in of our Flamingo property. That is what the original purchaser of the week in 1993 paid Hilton for it. They would keep the Flamingo and we would pay $21,760. I do not know what is meant by ND and PC but DC was pitched as the District.  Looking at your document alongside our document helped in figuring out some of the gibberish.


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## Here There (Sep 6, 2018)

Panina said:


> Keep us informed when closing happens so we can celebrate with you!



CELEBRATION TIME!
So thrilled to announce that my purchase has just closed this week: 7200 points; the Residences NYC; bought on ebay for $10,001 which passed ROFR.

Kudos to the back office at vacationpropertiesforless.com for their expert shepherding of the closing process, which took 4 months to complete (with the sellers taking 30 days to execute the docs.)


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## Panina (Sep 6, 2018)

Here There said:


> CELEBRATION TIME!
> So thrilled to announce that my purchase has just closed this week: 7200 points; the Residences NYC; bought on ebay for $10,001 which passed ROFR.
> 
> Kudos to the back office at vacationpropertiesforless.com for their expert shepherding of the closing process, which took 4 months to complete (with the sellers taking 30 days to execute the docs.)


Fabulous, shows if you look and are patient you can find the timeshare you want, where you want, for a great price.


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## CalGalTraveler (Sep 6, 2018)

Here There said:


> CELEBRATION TIME!
> So thrilled to announce that my purchase has just closed this week: 7200 points; the Residences NYC; bought on ebay for $10,001 which passed ROFR.
> 
> Kudos to the back office at vacationpropertiesforless.com for their expert shepherding of the closing process, which took 4 months to complete (with the sellers taking 30 days to execute the docs.)



Fantastic deal! You were very lucky that it slipped through ROFR. Enjoy your purchase.


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## dayooper (Sep 6, 2018)

Here There said:


> CELEBRATION TIME!
> So thrilled to announce that my purchase has just closed this week: 7200 points; the Residences NYC; bought on ebay for $10,001 which passed ROFR.
> 
> Kudos to the back office at vacationpropertiesforless.com for their expert shepherding of the closing process, which took 4 months to complete (with the sellers taking 30 days to execute the docs.)



Congrats! Nice deal. I’m sure you will enjoy it. I have never thought about owning in NYC, but they look like wonderful places to go. 

One request. Please add this to rofr.net


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## hurnik (Sep 7, 2018)

Great deal, IMO.  And you can book at more than 44 days out, LOL!


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## brp (Sep 7, 2018)

As said, 7200 points at any NYC location is a ridiculously good deal. While I prefer W. 57th to the locations at the Hilton Midtown, I would even consider something like this if it were still available 

Enjoy!

Cheers.


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## Nomad420 (Sep 7, 2018)

Here There said:


> CELEBRATION TIME!
> So thrilled to announce that my purchase has just closed this week: 7200 points; the Residences NYC; bought on ebay for $10,001 which passed ROFR.
> 
> Kudos to the back office at vacationpropertiesforless.com for their expert shepherding of the closing process, which took 4 months to complete (with the sellers taking 30 days to execute the docs.)



Very jealous especially given what I paid direct from developers!!  I can't believe (as others stated) it passed ROFR, that is a small fraction of the developers price.  My suspicion is that is something on the order of $60-70K (initial developers price) but I could be wrong.  Someone took a beating here and not you.


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## brp (Sep 7, 2018)

Nomad420 said:


> Very jealous especially given what I paid direct from developers!!  I can't believe (as others stated) it passed ROFR, that is a small fraction of the developers price.  My suspicion is that is something on the order of $60-70K (initial developers price) but I could be wrong.  Someone took a beating here and not you.



From info I got and share in another current thread, I do know that a 7200 point contract at W. 57th is about $80K so, assuming that these are similar, your estimate sounds very much in the ballpark.

Cheers.


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## CalGalTraveler (Sep 7, 2018)

It sounds like this passed ROFR before the property opened so the ROFR processes were not yet in place. I would be very surprised if something similar passed ROFR now. Must have been a death or divorce in which they had to sell in a hurry and family did not know the value of the unit.  This might be one of the best resale deals ever for a brand new property.  When I saw it on eBay, I thought it was too good to be true.


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## Panina (Sep 7, 2018)

CalGalTraveler said:


> It sounds like this passed ROFR before the property opened so the ROFR processes were not yet in place. I would be very surprised if something similar passed ROFR now. Must have been a death or divorce in which they had to sell in a hurry and family did not know the value of the unit.  This might be one of the best resale deals ever for a brand new property.  (When I saw it on Ebay, I thought it was too good to be true.)


I thought the same.  It just shows the needle in the haystack deals are out there.


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## CanuckTravlr (Sep 7, 2018)

alwysonvac said:


> Jon77 thanks for sharing
> 
> We really didn’t get into numbers once our salesman discovered we were resale owners.
> 
> ...



In reading the most recent post to this thread, I came across the above and the scan of the original salesman's notes.  Having been through something similar at a recent owners' update, I think I can decipher the above items in red.  The handwriting isn't the best, since i think the "ND" should actually be "NY".  In which case the following explanation may make some sense.

If you wanted to get into the Hilton Club New York today it would cost you $51,990 ("NY") for 5,100 points and give you Hilton Honors Gold status.  But you can get the same points by buying into the Hilton Club DC for $36,160 ("DC").  This is due to the pre-construction discount of $15,380 ("PC").  After your trade-in of $11,900, the net cost is $24,260 plus closing costs ("CC").  After putting down an initial deposit of $2,500, plus pay $1,400 today towards closing costs, the balance owing will be $21,260. This can be financed at $299 per month for 10 years.

Anyway that's my take on it.


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## mscheribel59 (Sep 17, 2018)

Funny about the resale "notice". We were just out to Elara in Vegas 2 weeks ago. Again I was asked to preview their penthouse units, with an owner update. We got there at 10:30am, young salesman walks us back to a table/sitting area. There were lots of tables with owners/future owners already with salespeople. As we were getting to our table, he asked us what we owned, and I told him we had 7,000 point and 4,800 weeks. He asked me what I paid for them, and said under 4,000 and under 3,000. He said oh, i see you bought resale. He told us to get some refreshments, and left. About 10 minutes later he came back and told us he didn't have anything we'd be interested in, and asked us why we came. I told him I wanted to see what was new...He said thanks for coming and pick up your gift card on your way out. This is at least the 4th time this has happened in the last year and a half. Always buys us a nice dinner while there!


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## GT75 (Sep 17, 2018)

@mscheribel59 sounds like you haven’t gotten wise salespersons.


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## JohnPaul (Sep 17, 2018)

I had also notice The Residences in the ROFR database for $10,001.  Here's my theory on why it passed.  The Residences is new and there isn't much resale yet.  In addition, the salespeople told us on our recent stays in August that a lot of people (this includes us) who moved from W 57th St to The Residences are buying back to W 57th St.

Since they have tons of inventory at The Residences (being new and with people trading back out) why should Hilton take back a paid for unit that's going to take time to sell along with their existing inventory vs getting MFs right now.

I also agree that this is not going to be a common situation.


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## tombanjo (Sep 17, 2018)

Any idea why are people buying back into W57th ?


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## JohnPaul (Sep 17, 2018)

tombanjo said:


> Any idea why are people buying back into W57th ?



The experience at The Residences/HCNY and W 57th St are quite different and people seem to like one or the other.  Lots of hustle and bustle at Hilton Hotel as you make your way to the timeshares.  Bars and restaurants available in the hotel if you want to use them.  A more traditional decor at The Residences/HCNY vs contemporary at W 57th St.  W 57th St has the amazing outdoor space in the lounge and from the minute you see the doorman you feel very welcomed and recognized.

I also think they set expectations very high for The Residences.  You visit the sales offices (which I think is the old Conrad Hilton Penthouse) and it is an amazing two story space with unbelievable views of Central Park and I think we all sort of thought everything would be like that or at least they would make that the owner's lounge.  However, they kept that as the sales office.  For being so high up, most units just look at other buildings.  Also, the point values and MF are pretty high at The Residences.  At The Residences the lowest point one bedroom for high season is 12,600 vs 7200 at W 57th St.  We own a Studio Premier at W 57th St which gives us 7200 points (same as one bedroom but lower MF).  W 57th MF about $1500 for the 7200 studio premier points that gets a one bedroom and The Residences is about $2900 MF for the one bedroom.  (I don't know the actual 1 bedroom MF at W 57th)

The fact that they are in The Hilton Hotel and have to utilize the Hotel services is a lot of nickel and diming that people find annoying and don't have to deal with at W 57th St.  $5 per bag to check luggage.  $5 or $10 for them to receive a package for you.  Fees to use the business center for computer and printing.

If MF were more equivalent and I could use the lounge I'd be happy to go back and forth between W 57th St and The Residences.

As it is, we have one more "owner" stay at The Residences in January then it's back to W 57th St overall.


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## mscheribel59 (Sep 19, 2018)

GT75 said:


> @mscheribel59 sounds like you haven’t gotten wise salespersons.


Truthfully, I don't understand why they keep asking us to go...lol
Retired, living the life the best we can, and grabbing a few gift cards along the way. 
By they way, We love HGVC, and are glad we bought 2 weeks, at resale!


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## brp (Sep 20, 2018)

mscheribel59 said:


> Truthfully, I don't understand why they keep asking us to go...lol
> Retired, living the life the best we can, and grabbing a few gift cards along the way.
> By they way, We love HGVC, and are glad we bought 2 weeks, at resale!



In New York we get $200 in Elevated Rewards dollars per visit. Very useful and work at a lot of places. Last visit was about 15 minutes, so I can make the maths work for that 

Cheers.


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## Smclaugh99 (Sep 23, 2018)

I had an owners update at Park Soleil this weekend.  I live two hours away from Orlando and go there frequently.  I always turn down the update. This time I agreed mainly to see how they were going to reconcile my ownership (plus get the $100). I have 24,000 developer purchased points at HCNY. I have a Sea World resale 7000 points and I am in the deeding process for Kingsland 14,400 points.  A couple of takeaways that I found helpful:

Chicago will NOT be a ‘by Hilton club’. I asked her three times and she said it was just announced internally that it will be ‘regular’ HGVC. Still don’t know if I believe that given that it fits the portfolio of bHC to a tee.
They really tried to push me from Elite Plus to Elite Premier (34,000 points) by ‘threatening’ that the Elite point thresholds are going up soon for new owners, but existing Elite owners will stay at their current level. I do admit they make the Registry Collection (only available to Premier) appealing in that it opens up nicer resorts from Disney, Marriott and international locales not available through RCI for relatively low club point values.
I learned that my AmEx HHonors Aspire card ($450 fee) actually only gives 3 points on restaurants, grocery shopping, and gas stations but Ascend ($95 fee) gives 6 points for those purchases. Aspire travel benefit at 7 points is ONLY if you purchase direct from Amex travel or from certain partner airlines. So you probably get better points in the long run with Ascend and are paying for Diamond status with Aspire. As someone who has been pushing the Aspire card, I stand corrected.
They have no idea what you paid for resale purchase. My sea world resale was listed at the 1997 $16,000 price, not the $4000 I paid this year. At some point in the presentation they offered to buy back the sea world for $16,000.
Resale is their kryptonite and the sales person (and the closer) were in disbelief that my resales passed ROFR. At the end, the sales person said “stop buying those resales!” It was priceless.

Sean


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## Talent312 (Sep 23, 2018)

Smclaugh99 said:


> ...At the end, the sales person said “stop buying those resales!”



Or what?
He was going to hold his breath until he turned blue?

$16K for Seaworld was a most likely credit against a new purchase.
IOW, you'd give up a perfectly good TS to buy one horribly overpriced from them.
At least you weren't hornswoggled by these modern-day pirates.
.


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## Smclaugh99 (Sep 23, 2018)

Talent312 said:


> Or what?
> He was going to hold his breath until he turned blue?
> 
> $16K for Seaworld was a most likely credit against a new purchase.
> ...



Oh yes, they were only offering buy back the resale to lower how much I would have to pay to ‘upgrade’. I won’t rehash my long history of intermittent upgrades since 2010 (before I became aware of TUG) but at every upgrade, they ‘buy back’ at purchase price to move you up usually to move you onto the Elite conveyor belt. This is the first time I saw them do that with a resale purchase.  

To try to make the sale they were offering 80,000 bonus points and 2 million Hilton honors points. This is the first time I have been offered HHonors points in an attempt to upgrade.  Still said “no thanks.”

Sean


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## brp (Sep 24, 2018)

Smclaugh99 said:


> Oh yes, they were only offering buy back the resale to lower how much I would have to pay to ‘upgrade’. I won’t rehash my long history of intermittent upgrades since 2010 (before I became aware of TUG) but at every upgrade, they ‘buy back’ at purchase price to move you up usually to move you onto the Elite conveyor belt. This is the first time I saw them do that with a resale purchase.



They've done that with us several times - offered the "direct" price of a resale purchase toward a higher-priced direct package. Happened earlier this month with a resale W. 57th where they offered full value toward a higher-point W. 57th package. And only another $30K in new money 

Cheers.


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## gstudenic @suddenlink.net (Sep 26, 2018)

I had an owner’s update last month in Vegas. He was very respectful. Looked at my point usage and acknowledged that I didn’t need any more points.  He then said he had two opportunities that he was required to present to me. He left the room to pick up my portfolio. He came back and stated that since I was paid in full, I would not need to listen to these opportunities since they were offers to refinance at a lower rate.  He and I parted ways. It took about 1/2 hr and was a positive experience.  I got 3 nights at Elara for 150$.  Last time they were not pushy in Myrtle Beach.   The guy saw that I was having trouble using my points and we just sat and shot the breeze for an hour.


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## Harry (Sep 26, 2018)

Is trading in ever a good deal? At an "update" in Vegas they offered to buy back at original price Kings Land and Marabella.  The selling hype was we would pay less in maintenance fees and get a huge discount on HGV Vegas, (the one north strip) and a bunch of Hilton honor points. When I stated that this would jeopardize my 12 month reservation for MB and KL he said we would have no problem. I said take back Bay Club and we will talk. We were ushered out.


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## brp (Sep 26, 2018)

It's pretty much never a good idea. Even if you wanted the higher-point, lower MF package, you'd usually (maybe always?) be better off selling what you have resale (even with sales fees) and buying what you want resale. Still gonna be less out-of-pocket.

Cheers.


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## Talent312 (Sep 26, 2018)

The 'new' money they'd want for the upgrade would still be excessive.
But some peep have $$ to burn and prefer to have HGVC chauffer their limmo, even if it means paying thru the nose.


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## brp (Sep 26, 2018)

Talent312 said:


> The 'new' money they'd want for the upgrade would still be excessive.
> But some peep have $$ to burn and prefer to have HGVC chauffer their limmo, even if it means paying thru the nose.



Having money to burn doesn't mean that one should burn it here. Excessive travel and wine are much better options.

Cheers.


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## Sky313 (Oct 25, 2018)

Smclaugh99 said:


> I had an owners update at Park Soleil this weekend.  I live two hours away from Orlando and go there frequently.  I always turn down the update. This time I agreed mainly to see how they were going to reconcile my ownership (plus get the $100). I have 24,000 developer purchased points at HCNY. I have a Sea World resale 7000 points and I am in the deeding process for Kingsland 14,400 points.  A couple of takeaways that I found helpful:
> 
> Chicago will NOT be a ‘by Hilton club’. I asked her three times and she said it was just announced internally that it will be ‘regular’ HGVC. Still don’t know if I believe that given that it fits the portfolio of bHC to a tee.
> They really tried to push me from Elite Plus to Elite Premier (34,000 points) by ‘threatening’ that the Elite point thresholds are going up soon for new owners, but existing Elite owners will stay at their current level. I do admit they make the Registry Collection (only available to Premier) appealing in that it opens up nicer resorts from Disney, Marriott and international locales not available through RCI for relatively low club point values.
> ...


Actually, Amex Aspire card gets you 7x points on restaurant purchases (not 3x). I have received 7x on all direct airline purchases as well (don't think it can be via Expedia, Travelocity  etc) . Registry collection isn't all that. Most of properties on regular RCI anyways and point values are more expensive via registry collection than RCI.  Availability isn't great either. See: https://club.hiltongrandvacations.com/en/club-membership/elite/exchange-benefits  You can browse the registry collection as a non-member and it shows the same info as a member.


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