# The release of U.S Soldier Bowe Bergdahl....



## Passepartout (Jun 1, 2014)

is a BIG DEAL just up the road in Hailey, Idaho. Though not without controversy and questions, the small mountain community never stopped hoping, praying, and hanging yellow ribbons and balloons for him.

We are happy for him and his family, and that the chapter of his capture and imprisonment are over.

There has been a rally planned for the last weekend in June to commemorate his 5th anniversary in captivity- it will be a celebration of his homecoming instead- even if he isn't yet home. Another tree was to be planted in the park to join the others that have been planted each year as a reminder. The search for the next tree has been called off.

We wish him, his family, and community, well.

Jim


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## bogey21 (Jun 1, 2014)

I, too, am happy for Beau, his family and the community.  On the other hand I fear for those in the future who might end up being kidnapped because of the precedent set in this case.

George


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## pjrose (Jun 1, 2014)

Very happy he has been released.


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## Dave&Linda (Jun 1, 2014)

Before anybody gets all wound up about this, you need to look at the circumstances that Mr. B went missing to begin with. I am not a conservative/Republican but from what I am seeing there are some odd circumstances where this guy went missing and why. Do some homework. I have a feeling we got screwed on this deal. By the way, I am a Vet and know something about this.


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## pjrose (Jun 1, 2014)

Dave&Linda said:


> Before anybody gets all wound up about this, you need to look at the circumstances that Mr. B went missing to begin with. I am not a conservative/Republican but from what I am seeing there are some odd circumstances where this guy went missing and why. Do some homework. I have a feeling we got screwed on this deal. By the way, I am a Vet and know something about this.



Hmmmmm.  I wasn't familiar with some of the details (or alleged details).


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## Dave&Linda (Jun 1, 2014)

*Here you go...*

http://www.ijreview.com/2014/06/143...al-story-fears-reprisal-obama-administration/


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## Passepartout (Jun 1, 2014)

Dave&Linda said:


> I am not a conservative/Republican but from what I am seeing there are some odd circumstances where this guy went missing and why.



You could have fooled me. Yes, there are questions in need of answering, but let's let it happen in due time. It WILL come out. I posted that in the OP, and it hasn't changed. I am a veteran too, and spent my share of time questioning authority.


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## Dave&Linda (Jun 1, 2014)

Really, question authority?  If this is true, and I do indeed question it, let us see what the real story is before we begin parade for this guy. The real story needs to come out, but I will not be honoring this guy until this happens. Thanks for your service.


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## siesta (Jun 2, 2014)

I'm not sure what happened, only a few people likely do. But what I do know is that the 5 detainees that were released in exchange are top Taliban commanders, and the Taliban has tried to secure their release for more than a decade. We have paid a high price for this soldier's release, I just hope the rumors that he went AWOL before he was captured are not true. If they aren't true, this action can be justified depending on your outlook.

"While not as well known as Guantanamo inmates like 9-11 mastermind Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, the Taliban 5 were some of the worst outlaws in the U.S. war on terror. And their release will end up replenishing the diminished leadership ranks of the Afghan Taliban at a moment when the United States is winding down the war there."

Here is detailed info. about the 5 detainees released in exchange:

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/05/31/us-pays-high-price-for-last-pow-in-afghanistan.html


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## myoakley (Jun 2, 2014)

I have a sinking feeling that this exchange is going to come back to bite us big time - as in a really bad terrorist attack masterminded by one or more of the released prisoners.  I hope I'm wrong.


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## sb2313 (Jun 2, 2014)

More reading material to consider.  This is an article on the thoughts of those that served with him and its from a site that none would accuse of being conservative/republican leaning.  There are just so many questions that need to be answered on this.  
http://www.cnn.com/2014/06/01/us/bergdahl-deserter-or-hero/index.html?hpt=hp_t1


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## Timeshare Von (Jun 2, 2014)

Dave&Linda said:


> Before anybody gets all wound up about this, you need to look at the circumstances that Mr. B went missing to begin with. I am not a conservative/Republican but from what I am seeing there are some odd circumstances where this guy went missing and why. Do some homework. I have a feeling we got screwed on this deal. By the way, I am a Vet and know something about this.



I agree.  It is unfortunate that most will see a soldier coming home and sing hurray.  There is so much more to this story, and his particularly situation.

And I agree, every American  (soldier or not) could now become a pawn in terrorism because of how this situation was handled.


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## ace2000 (Jun 2, 2014)

Another interesting article...

*We Lost Soldiers in the Hunt for Bergdahl, a Guy Who Walked Off in the Dead of Night*

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articl...-guy-who-walked-off-in-the-dead-of-night.html


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## Passepartout (Jun 2, 2014)

As I alluded to in the first post to this thread, MANY questions come up surrounding the disappearance and capture of this soldier. The only way to get answers to those questions is to get them from him. And in order to accomplish that, he had to be repatriated. This time, and with the assistance of Qatar was/is expected to be the last/best chance for that before the final withdrawal of U.S. troops from Afghanistan. Perfect and while keeping Taliban officers and officials held in Guantanamo indefinitely? No. This was seen as the best way to 'leave no soldier behind', and get the answers we need to have. By the time those 5 Taliban officials take their places in the Afghan de-facto government, the U.S. involvement and presence in their country will be very nearly over. Finally.

Unfortunately, it has all the earmarks of being a political football. I'm sorry I brought up what will surely become one of those dreaded TUG 'controversial subjects.'


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## ScoopKona (Jun 2, 2014)

Passepartout said:


> I'm sorry I brought up what will surely become one of those dreaded TUG 'controversial subjects.'



It wouldn't be controversial if two-thirds of the country wasn't so damned indignant all the time. (And the other third is apathetic.)


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## ace2000 (Jun 2, 2014)

Passepartout said:


> As I alluded to in the first post to this thread, MANY questions come up surrounding the disappearance and capture of this soldier. The only way to get answers to those questions is to get them from him.



Naw, sorry I'm not going to rely on just his version of the story.  I'm interested in hearing from all sides myself - and then I think we all can figure out who has the most credibility.  There are too many eyewitnesses sharing the details on how he left his unit.  Doesn't mean they're sharing the 100% truth, but we may not get the 100% truth from his side either.  All I'm saying is let it all play out and we can all figure out on our own who and when we want to believe whatever version comes out.

Not saying that I fault the young man though, because until any of us have walked in his shoes, we'll never know how we'd respond in the same situation.  I am definitely not casting judgement on him.


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## vacationhopeful (Jun 2, 2014)

ace2000 said:


> ....Not saying that I fault the young man though, because until any of us have walked in his shoes, we'll never know how we'd respond in the same situation.  I am definitely not casting judgement on him.



In an answer to the above - how would one respond in the same situation ... here is my personal take:

Sorry, playing video games does NOT make a person (man or woman, young or old) as tough as our pioneers, our homesteaders, our immigrants from ghettos, the young adults of the depression era .... 


In the Army (any service really) & overseas & in theater, how many in our volunteer services can mentally handle those conditions? Is it their personal failure or their parents or our society? 

As much as I hated my childhood, where every child in my family had their own personal hoe for the 3+ acre garden and our ONLY choice of vegetables was frozen zucchini or stew tomatoes (verses fresh in the summer) ... and I babysat on Friday & Saturday nights to earn money to buy cloth to make ALL my own school outfits (and I rode my bike to the cloth store) ... I know how to survive mentally. And how to be happy with little things (like a sunny day or the quiet rainy day).

And the above is the simple version .... I worked for money from 5th grade on -  thru all my college years. Then I got a "real" job.


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## DeniseM (Jun 2, 2014)

Folks - I know this it a "political" subject by it's very nature, but if this turns into a debate about the US military policy in the Middle-East - it will be closed.


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## ace2000 (Jun 2, 2014)

vacationhopeful said:


> In an answer to the above - how would one respond in the same situation ... here is my personal take:



Help us out please... how does your personal story apply here?  Are you saying that you know how you'd respond in the same situation?


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## vacationhopeful (Jun 2, 2014)

Toughness (the mental kind) is a society trait. Video games are entertainment.


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## laurac260 (Jun 2, 2014)

If I was his mother, sister, aunt, etc etc, I'd be over the moon.

As someone who doesn't know the guy…. I have decidedly mixed feelings about the whole thing, for reasons that have already been expressed here.  

It does beg the question though, if we are going to negotiate for HIM, where do we stop?  What about the guy in Mexico?  Is Bergdahl MORE important from a humanitarian standpoint because he served in the military?  What about the folks who don't make the news (are there others out there who are US citizens who are being held captive too?)


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## pedro47 (Jun 2, 2014)

I for one am very happy that any POW can be return home.


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## Mister Sir (Jun 2, 2014)

I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for the real story to come out. We still don't know what really happened in Benghazi.


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## e.bram (Jun 2, 2014)

What POW? He is a deserter! And loose 5 terrorists on the USA


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## thheath (Jun 2, 2014)

For members that wish to display their displeasure (other then here on TUG).

Here is a White House petition link:

https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/pe...on-during-operation-enduring-freedom/BVPwpnrN


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## Passepartout (Jun 2, 2014)

Fun, being judge and jury, isn't it? So American, don'tcha think? Maybe no search for a missing American soldier should take place, and no negotiations with their captors.

Wars are such neat, tidy things, with clearly defined, black and white boundaries. Good guys, bad guys. Friends, enemies. Winners, losers.


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## wilma (Jun 2, 2014)

Mister Sir said:


> I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for the real story to come out. We still don't know what really happened in Benghazi.



wondered how long it would take for someone to mention Benghazi.:


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## bogey21 (Jun 2, 2014)

vacationhopeful said:


> In the Army (any service really) & overseas & in theater, how many in our volunteer services can mentally handle those conditions?



Our troops in Korea (and I was one of them) faced a heck of a lot of adversity.  Rarely was our ability to mentally handle it an issue.  My personal opinion is that the multiple deployments we have today versus the one longer deployment we had in Korea is the problem.  

George


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## vacationhopeful (Jun 2, 2014)

bogey21 said:


> Our troops in Korea (and I was one of them) faced a heck of a lot of adversity.  Rarely was our ability to mentally handle it an issue.  My personal opinion is that the multiple deployments we have today versus the one longer deployment we had in Korea is the problem.
> 
> George



That is definitely a solid point of view --- thank you for your service and the knowledge gain from your personal experience serving.


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## TF865 (Jun 2, 2014)

myoakley said:


> I have a sinking feeling that this exchange is going to come back to bite us big time - as in a really bad terrorist attack masterminded by one or more of the released prisoners.  I hope I'm wrong.



That was my thought exactly and it scares the crap out of me to be honest!


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## e.bram (Jun 2, 2014)

Look at Beau's father. Looks like a Taliban.


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## ondeadlin (Jun 2, 2014)

pedro47 said:


> I for one am very happy that any POW can be return home.



Amen, Pedro.

The fact is, all the dirtbags we traded for him were going to be released at some point.  All POWs are.  I'm fine with moving that dateline up to get something for them.

Supporting our troops means supporting them even when we can't quite understand what the pressures of combat might have done to them.  It's not a neat or pretty thing.

Welcome home, soldier.  We'll sort out the rest later.


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## ondeadlin (Jun 2, 2014)

e.bram said:


> Look at Beau's father. Looks like a Taliban.



That's really shameful.  If you did the most minimal Google search you'd know the guy's beard looked like that because he said he wouldn't shave until his son returned home.  Interviews from Idaho today talked about how he and his family are regular Christian churchgoers in their town who never miss a Sunday service.

Seriously, take a step back and consider how you'd feel if someone came to that kind of conclusion about you with only the most superficial impression.


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## Passepartout (Jun 2, 2014)

e.bram said:


> Look at Beau's father. Looks like a Taliban.



What does that have to do with anything. Bob Bergdahl has been a respected member of the community, UPS driver and delivery guy. He grew the beard and learned Pashto to be able to speak directly with his son's captors without government involvement. Bowe Bergdahl's parents have worked tirelessly to gain his release for nearly 5 years. Comments about their appearance, without knowing the background are not helpful.

If your own son were held captive in a foreign land, I suspect you'd do whatever you thought would gain his release, as well.


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## wilma (Jun 2, 2014)

ondeadlin said:


> Amen, Pedro.
> 
> Supporting our troops means supporting them even when we can't quite understand what the pressures of combat might have done to them.  It's not a neat or pretty thing.
> 
> Welcome home, soldier.  We'll sort out the rest later.



Exactly right. Let's not leave our soldiers behind even if they don't pass someone's patriotic test.


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## Dave&Linda (Jun 2, 2014)

I agree with the monitor of this but take a hard look at what actually is the real story here as being documented by those who served with this guy.  I didn't start this link but being a vet and having been involved with the DOD for over 47 years know something about this story.  It is not political, or shouldn't be, but as so many things these days it is. Trust me. On the other hand, this is not what we should be discussing here, but we should be able to discuss things that interest us as a group. I accept and respect all comments made here.


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## dioxide45 (Jun 2, 2014)

laurac260 said:


> It does beg the question though, if we are going to negotiate for HIM, where do we stop?  What about the guy in Mexico?  Is Bergdahl MORE important from a humanitarian standpoint because he served in the military?  What about the folks who don't make the news (are there others out there who are US citizens who are being held captive too?)



This is a good question. Why did the administration opt to negotiate for HIS release, but not the many others that were kidnapped or taken prisoner?

It was always my understanding that we didn't negotiate with terrorists? It seems odd now that they negotiated his release and paid a high price for it, it seems. Will it cost more lives down the road? Only time will tell.


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## siesta (Jun 2, 2014)

Passepartout said:


> The only way to get answers to those questions is to get them from him. '


Really? Thats the only way? That would be quite a one sided process.

We will hopefully get answers from him, but those should be taken with a grain of salt. The real answers will come from his comrades, his superiors, who don't have nearly the vested interest he does, and the direct and circumstantial evidence that tend to prove or disprove a proposition. The proposition the court martial would focus on is did he desert and did he go AWOL.

Furthermore, troops died looking for this young man, scarce resources were diverted to aid in the search such as supplies, drones, satelites, etc., which undermined our efforts in the region as operations came to a standstill because of these events.  Additionally, this search and debacle delayed the closing of OutPost Keating that resulted in 8 soldiers dying after they came under heavy attack and were essentially fish in a barrell. if this young man did go AWOL, we should only be celebrating his return to hold him accountable.  If you want to honor someone at this present point in time, it should be those soldiers who followed their orders, and the ones that died in the process. Those are the names we should be discussing, and those are the names worthy of promotion at this point or posthumous recognition.

I do not judge this young man, I am a firm believer in the presumption of innocence. I will withhold judgment until the facts have come out. But that does not mean I will prematurely honor him.

"About 300 insurgent fighters launched a massive attack on a small U.S. outpost (Keating) in Afghanistan on Oct. 3, 2009, killing eight U.S. soldiers in one of the deadliest fights for Americans in the Afghan war"


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## Passepartout (Jun 2, 2014)

dioxide45 said:


> This is a good question. Why did the administration opt to negotiate for HIS release, but* not the many others *that were kidnapped or taken prisoner?



What others? Only Bergdahl has been held in Afghanistan (or probably Pakistan). Period.

As to why, the report is there was concern over his health, and the window of time to get him back before we pull all U.S. troops out is closing. The Emir of Qatar acted as go-between. The 5 Taliban who were exchanged are required to stay in Qatar for a year. By then, over 3/4 of the U.S. troops will be home.

Yes, it seems like a high price, but like all those held at Guantanamo, no charges have been leveled, and they are in limbo- held without charge. In Afghanistan, the Taliban is the de-facto government. Karzai's brother is a Taliban leader.

A perfectly neat way to get our guy home? No, but probably the ONLY way to repatriate him before all U.S. troops leave the country.

I REALLY don't want to come across an any kind of defender of Bowe Bergdahl. I'm not. I am a Viet Nam Veteran. I don't know whether he walked away. The Gov't said he did back in 2010. Then they promoted him. Twice. He deserves to be able to answer the questions and face his questioners and accusers. That's the American way. The 5 Taliban officials have been held without a trial. They are going home too. That, too is the American way.

Let's wait for him to get healthy. It has been reported that he no longer can speak English. Possibly he was beaten if English words escaped his lips. It's the least we can give one of our own.


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## Dave&Linda (Jun 2, 2014)

Why do you not read what others who were with this guy are saying? He simply was a deserter who has spent the last five years hanging out with his Taliban buddies. And don't tell me we have to wait for him to tell his story. There is way too much out there that shows this guy was a deserter and likely responsible for the deaths of many American GIs. This is really BS, and you know it but won't admit it. This is not a conservative/Republican rant, but from somebody who is a Vet and spent almost half a century in the DOD and knows something about this.


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## GregT (Jun 2, 2014)

I'm happy for our American soldier that he is coming home.  I don't know what he did and I don't know what awaits him, but that's not for me to judge.   But my mixed emotions are not because of him.

I am heartsick that we are returning five terrorists -- people that would get a life sentence without parole if we knew how to handle this bizarre situation.  But we don't, so we return them home -- and trade them for a wayward soldier.    

And in doing so, we strengthen those that want to harm us and I wonder again what our leadership is thinking.   And our allies must be wondering too.

Ugh.  But if it was my son coming home, I would be joyous.  Tough subject.

Best,

Greg


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## siesta (Jun 2, 2014)

Passepartout said:


> A perfectly neat way to get our guy home? No, but probably the ONLY way to repatriate him before all U.S. troops leave the country.


FYI. We announced last Tuesday our plan to leave 10,000 troops in Afghanistan past 2014.

http://www.cnn.com/2014/05/27/politics/us-afghanistan-troops/

http://time.com/119269/obama-afghanistan-iraq-troops/


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## Dave&Linda (Jun 2, 2014)

Yeah right, I have a son over there at the moment, and to be honest I'm more concerned about him being kidnapped than anything else.


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## pjrose (Jun 2, 2014)

Mister Sir said:


> I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for the real story to come out. We still don't know what really happened in Benghazi.



Do we know what really happened in these?  I suggest we insist on every detail of every one, in chronological order starting with the earliest. 

January 22, 2002. Calcutta, India. Gunmen associated with Harkat-ul-Jihad al-Islami attack the U.S. Consulate. Five people are killed.

June 14, 2002. Karachi, Pakistan. Suicide bomber connected with al-Qaida attacks the U.S. Consulate, killing 12 and injuring 51.

October 12, 2002. Denpasar, Indonesia. U.S. diplomatic offices bombed as part of a string of “Bali Bombings.” No fatalities.

February 28, 2003. Islamabad, Pakistan. Several gunmen fire upon the U.S. Embassy. Two people are killed.

May 12, 2003. Riyadh, Saudi Arabia. Armed al-Qaida terrorists storm the diplomatic compound killing 36 people including nine Americans. The assailants committed suicide by detonating a truck bomb.

July 30, 2004. Tashkent, Uzbekistan. A suicide bomber from the Islamic Movement of Uzbekistan attacks the U.S. Embassy, killing two people.

December 6, 2004. Jeddah, Saudi Arabia. Al-Qaida terrorists storm the U.S. Consulate and occupy the perimeter wall. Nine people are killed.

March 2, 2006. Karachi, Pakistan again. Suicide bomber attacks the U.S. Consulate killing four people, including U.S. diplomat David Foy who was directly targeted by the attackers. (I wonder if Lindsey Graham or Fox News would even recognize the name “David Foy.” This is the third Karachi terrorist attack in four years on what’s considered American soil.)

September 12, 2006. Damascus, Syria. Four armed gunmen shouting “Allahu akbar” storm the U.S. Embassy using grenades, automatic weapons, a car bomb and a truck bomb. Four people are killed, 13 are wounded.

January 12, 2007. Athens, Greece. Members of a Greek terrorist group called the Revolutionary Struggle fire a rocket-propelled grenade at the U.S. Embassy. No fatalities.

March 18, 2008. Sana’a, Yemen. Members of the al-Qaida-linked Islamic Jihad of Yemen fire a mortar at the U.S. Embassy. The shot misses the embassy, but hits nearby school killing two.

July 9, 2008. Istanbul, Turkey. Four armed terrorists attack the U.S. Consulate. Six people are killed.

September 17, 2008. Sana’a, Yemen. Terrorists dressed as military officials attack the U.S. Embassy with an arsenal of weapons including RPGs and detonate two car bombs. Sixteen people are killed, including an American student and her husband (they had been married for three weeks when the attack occurred). This is the second attack on this embassy in seven months.


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## pjrose (Jun 2, 2014)

e.bram said:


> Look at Beau's father. Looks like a Taliban.





ondeadlin said:


> That's really shameful.  If you did the most minimal Google search you'd know the guy's beard looked like that because he said he wouldn't shave until his son returned home.  Interviews from Idaho today talked about how he and his family are regular Christian churchgoers in their town who never miss a Sunday service.
> 
> Seriously, take a step back and consider how you'd feel if someone came to that kind of conclusion about you with only the most superficial impression.





Passepartout said:


> What does that have to do with anything. Bob Bergdahl has been a respected member of the community, UPS driver and delivery guy. He grew the beard and learned Pashto to be able to speak directly with his son's captors without government involvement. Bowe Bergdahl's parents have worked tirelessly to gain his release for nearly 5 years. Comments about their appearance, without knowing the background are not helpful.
> 
> If your own son were held captive in a foreign land, I suspect you'd do whatever you thought would gain his release, as well.



Plus 1 to Ondeadln and Passepartout


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## Dave&Linda (Jun 2, 2014)

Point is stay away from that part of the world.  Also, do you think this type of stuff is going to stop there or be on our doorstop, AGAIN.  This guy, in my opinion, is part of the problem, not the solution. And now we have five high-ranking guys out there committed to doing exactly what you outlined. High praise to out exalted administration.


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## ace2000 (Jun 2, 2014)

Passepartout said:


> I REALLY don't want to come across an any kind of defender of Bowe Bergdahl. I'm not.



LOL.  Really?


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## easyrider (Jun 3, 2014)

Passepartout said:


> What does that have to do with anything. Bob Bergdahl has been a respected member of the community, UPS driver and delivery guy. He grew the beard and learned Pashto to be able to speak directly with his son's captors without government involvement. Bowe Bergdahl's parents have worked tirelessly to gain his release for nearly 5 years. Comments about their appearance, without knowing the background are not helpful.
> 
> If your own son were held captive in a foreign land, I suspect you'd do whatever you thought would gain his release, as well.



I agree with this 100%. I respect the parents for never giving up and I respect the community that stands by them. I never thought I would say this but Jim is right on this so get off his case and show some respect for the parents and community. 

As far as Bowe being a possible idiot or a deserter 5 years ago, my hunch is he is both. As far as the Gitmo releases, those guys are no longer in the game, and if they are, they will be answering to a new group of untrusting bad guys. I wouldn't be surprised if they all end up missing very soon. 


Bill


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## Dave&Linda (Jun 3, 2014)

Yeah Ace2000, really.....


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## Passepartout (Jun 3, 2014)

Dave&Linda said:


> Yeah Ace2000, really.....





ace2000 said:


> LOL.  Really?



Yeah, REALLY. So far nobody has mentioned an alternative to getting him released and back on U.S. soil. That opportunity presented itself.

So, O Great Skeptics, what, in your considered opinion SHOULD have been done when the negotiating team got a deal that would get him back?


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## Dave&Linda (Jun 3, 2014)

Maybe I should remind people that at least six American soldiers lost their lives because of this guy. Go here to see what his peers really think: https://www.facebook.com/groups/288812731285526/


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## bogey21 (Jun 3, 2014)

I'm glad Bowe has been released but wonder what really went on after watching interviews with 6 different members of his platoon say definitively that he deserted.  Having said that I'm willing to wait for all the facts to come out before condemning him.

George


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## Dave&Linda (Jun 3, 2014)

Understand what you are saying, but on the other hand are you saying you are going to weigh what six GI's who were there are saying versus a well paid lawyer is going to say? Just asking.


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## Passepartout (Jun 3, 2014)

Dave&Linda said:


> Maybe I should remind people that at least six American soldiers lost their lives because of this guy. Go here to see what his peers really think: https://www.facebook.com/groups/288812731285526/




I didn't watch the facebook post, and have great sympathy for the soldiers who were lost, and for their families. 

Let's consider that back 5 years ago, a member of your platoon turns up missing at a roll call. Nobody knows where he is. Or maybe someone says, "I saw him walk out of the compound." You're the platoon leader. What do you do? 

You organize a search party. It's a dangerous job in a dangerous place. But one of your buddies (or at least countrymen) is somewhere out there. An IED goes off, or small arms crack. Lives are lost. It's what happens. War is Hell. Later you find that the missing guy went over the hill voluntarily. Pissed? You bet! You and the rest of the platoon will hang everything that goes wrong for the rest of the deployment on that one guy. It's human nature. And 5 years later, in a purely political government vs government deal, he- the object of your scorn gets to come home in what looks like a hero's welcome.

And you thought I didn't understand the feelings of his platoon mates. Believe me, I do. But still, I will defend the guy's right to an investigation, hearing and trial, if necessary.

Jim


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## Bucky (Jun 3, 2014)

This shouldn't have anything to do with mental toughness. Period.

This is the oath that all enlisted personnel take when entering into the military:

"I, _____, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God." (Title 10, US Code; Act of 5 May 1960 replacing the wording first adopted in 1789, with amendment effective 5 October 1962).

Having served for 34 years myself, I am positive there will be an article 32 investigation on the circumstances involving his disappearance. It's probably already been started.

Some are upset because of our policy to not negotiate with terrorist being broken in this case. I don't look at it in that way. I consider it negotiating for the return of a POW. We always negotiate, whether you call them the enemy or terrorists! While the lawmakers would like you to believe we are not officially in a war, they are just plain clueless. We've been in a war ever since 911 and we have always negotiated for the return of our POW's.

Hopefully what actually happened will eventually come out but in the meantime I will reserve judgement am very happy for him and his family.


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## myoakley (Jun 3, 2014)

I am very skeptical of the claim that Bergdahl is in Germany "trying to relearn English".  As a language teacher (I speak 3 languages), I studied the acquisition of languages.  Studies have shown that a person's mother tongue spoken until the age of 10, is so well imbedded that it is never lost.  Furthermore, under duress, people will revert to their mother tongue even when it has not been spoken for many years.  An example:  my husband, who is French and who has lived in the U.S. for over 50 years with little occasion to speak French, came out of major surgery and under heavy sedation speaking only French.  This continued for several days until the effects of the anesthesia wore off.


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## Timeshare Von (Jun 3, 2014)

pjrose said:


> Do we know what really happened in these?  I suggest we insist on every detail of every one, in chronological order starting with the earliest. <<<snipped>>>



Good luck with that.

Our government will not be able to get to the bottom of anything; and if they do, they will not publicize it to the American citizens.

This is not a politically motivated comment on my part, but more of a fact in the world of war and espionage.

If you want to have a little better understanding of how our government and the intelligence agencies work, look no further than their role in the planned (and attempted) murder of Fidel Castro in the early 1960's.

Google "Robert A Mahau" or "Operation Mongoose" if you want to really understand what is possible.

Watergate . . . Guns for Hostages/Iran Contra . . . I'm sure there are more that I'm not coming up with this early in the morning.

Lastly, our current administration has promised investigations and disclosure on a number of recent issues (say , in the last five years) . . . none of which the have been appropriately investigated AND disclosure made to our citizens . . . Fast & Furious . . . Benghazi . . . the IRS . . . ACA and the botched roll-out.  Time and again, our government has let her people down.

Whatever may have been the situation with this apparent deserter and possible POW, will never see the light of day officially.


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## SueDonJ (Jun 3, 2014)

myoakley said:


> I am very skeptical of the claim that Bergdahl is in Germany "trying to relearn English".  As a language teacher (I speak 3 languages), I studied the acquisition of languages.  Studies have shown that a person's mother tongue spoken until the age of 10, is so well imbedded that it is never lost.  Furthermore, under duress, people will revert to their mother tongue even when it has not been spoken for many years.  An example:  my husband, who is French and who has lived in the U.S. for over 50 years with little occasion to speak French, came out of major surgery and under heavy sedation speaking only French.  This continued for several days until the effects of the anesthesia wore off.



I know, the whole idea of it sounds "off" to me, too, and I don't have any professional or educational expertise to explain it.  But is it possible that it's been tortured out of him?  That's probably not the correct way to say it but I'm floundering.  Possible that his psyche has been so damaged that some correction is needed, I mean?

On another note, I appreciate the thought processes of all the folks in this thread who have served and are providing the rest of us with that perspective.  Like every other topic under the sun it's obvious that even those of you with that shared experience do not agree, but your opinions are certainly more valid than mine.  Thanks for sharing them.


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## SueDonJ (Jun 3, 2014)

Dave&Linda said:


> Understand what you are saying, but on the other hand are you saying you are going to weigh what six GI's who were there are saying versus a well paid lawyer is going to say? Just asking.



Yes.  That's how it works, everybody involved gets to have their say weighed and measured, whether they speak for themselves or take advantage of others who are able to speak for them.

I don't see anybody here saying that they've reached a conclusion about this POW's guilt or innocence as far as desertion and other alleged matters, only that most are willing to give him due process.  Thanks to ALL of the military members through this country's history, we all have that protection.


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## ace2000 (Jun 3, 2014)

thheath said:


> For members that wish to display their displeasure (other then here on TUG).
> 
> Here is a White House petition link:
> 
> https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/pe...on-during-operation-enduring-freedom/BVPwpnrN



I agree with Passepartout and thheath here.  We should be pushing for a full and open investigation into what actually happened.  Especially since there were soldiers killed trying to hunt him down.

Thanks for providing the above mentioned petition thheath.  Click the link to sign.


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## e.bram (Jun 3, 2014)

[Deleted.]

_Moderator Note:  Several people have posted here explaining to you why this thought is particularly offensive, as well as offensive in its own right.  Please stop repeating it._


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## ondeadlin (Jun 3, 2014)

I think some people here are really missing the point.

From a piece I read earlier today:



> Let’s say for the sake of argument that Bergdahl is indeed a deserter, that his capture by the Taliban was a result of his own cowardly actions.
> 
> So?
> 
> ...



And, again, this is IF he deserted, which quite frankly, nobody knows.


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## Wonka (Jun 3, 2014)

*Has thought changed with new information?*

I've had mixed feelings about the release from the beginning.  First, it appears some very dangerous Terrorists were released that will be back in the game soon.  Second, the bypassing of the legal requirement of notification is troubling (although I can somewhat understand the need for quick action).

But, the new information that the prisoner was a deserter and others were killed trying to find him really bothers me.

I'm also wondering if he became a Muslim while in captivity.  [Deleted.]

_Moderator Note:  It's an interesting thought.  But I'm afraid it's too similar to other remarks in this thread which were deleted because of the offensive/prejudicial nature._


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## theo (Jun 3, 2014)

I certainly don't profess to know or fully understand all of the facts of this matter and will leave investigation and determination of the truth and any subsequent judgement or punishment, if appropriate, to the (likely imminent) UCMJ process. For civilians who have not served, those four letters stand for the *Uniform Code of Military Justice*. 
I for one don't ever regard media material as anything even remotely resembling *fact*. It may turn out that there is plenty of accountability to be shared in this matter. 

For now, I am glad for the safe return of an American POW. I will simply and objectively note however that previously, the (5) captured Taliban commanders released to secure the return of this soldier were  openly and overtly described by your Government as being "too dangerous to release".  Now however, released they will indeed be...


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## ace2000 (Jun 3, 2014)

ondeadlin said:


> And, again, this is IF he deserted, which quite frankly, nobody knows.



All I'd like to see is a full investigation into the matter.  If you had a son/daughter that got killed going after him, what would be your thoughts right now knowing that he's on the verge of coming back to a hero's welcome when he returns home?  All we're saying is let's pursue the facts in a fair manner.

The petition can be signed here...

https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/pet...eedom/BVPwpnrN


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## myoakley (Jun 3, 2014)

Has anyone else seen the very anti-American e-mails sent by Bergdahl to his father in the days before his disappearance?  They were broadcast on CNN this morning, and the possibility of his being a collaborator (in addition to a deserter) was discussed.


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## ondeadlin (Jun 3, 2014)

As an aside, whether one likes it or not, the prisoners released were not terrorists.  They fought for the Taliban, which was the government of Afghanistan when we invaded that country, therefore they were prisoners of war.  It's an important distinction.

They are bad, bad guys, but like the Nazis or the Viet Cong, they were part of a government force.  It's common for Americans to miss this distinction and confuse the Taliban with Al-Qaeda, but they are not the same thing.


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## SueDonJ (Jun 3, 2014)

ace2000 said:


> All I'd like to see is a full investigation into the matter.  If you had a son/daughter that got killed going after him, what would be your thoughts right now knowing that he's on the verge of coming back to a hero's welcome when he returns home?  All we're saying is let's pursue the facts in a fair manner.
> 
> The petition can be signed here...
> 
> https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/pet...eedom/BVPwpnrN



Well, I imagine that losing a child would be so horribly devastating that any parent in that position could be forgiven for not being able to form an objective opinion.  Maybe some could do it but I know I'd have great difficulty.  Subjectively, if the desertion allegations prove true, they're certainly entitled to think that the child they had to let go was more deserving of a hero's accolades than this POW.

But his family isn't asking the rest of us to treat him as a hero upon his return, are they?  They're not even asking us to be as happy as they are.  I think they want what you want, a full account of what their child has been through, despite their happiness at him being released.  But they're not able to be any more subjective than the parents of the soldiers who risked everything to find him, are they?


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## ace2000 (Jun 3, 2014)

SueDonJ said:


> But his family isn't asking the rest of us to treat him as a hero upon his return, are they?  They're not even asking us to be as happy as they are.  I think they want what you want, a full account of what their child has been through, despite their happiness at him being released.  But they're not able to be any more subjective than the parents of the soldiers who risked everything to find him, are they?



Does it matter whether his family is asking or not?  It doesn't matter.  The fact is that until all these details shared by his fellow combat troops came out he was definitely getting a hero's welcome.  And he still is probably still in line to get one, for all we know.  

It bothers a lot of people - myself included and I have no direct involvement.


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## SueDonJ (Jun 3, 2014)

ace2000 said:


> Does it matter whether his family is asking or not?  It doesn't matter.  The fact is that until all these details shared by his fellow combat troops came out he was definitely getting a hero's welcome.  And he still is probably still in line to get one, for all we know.
> 
> It bothers a lot of people - myself included and I have no direct involvement.



Be bothered, nothing wrong with that.  There are a whole lot of issues related to America's involvement over there that have bothered a whole of people.    I think somebody said it earlier, though - being bothered isn't the same thing as being righteously indignant despite not knowing all the facts.  And you have to admit, some people have skipped right over a willingness to let the facts play out in due time, opting instead to be righteously indignant from the get-go.

What does it matter if some consider him a hero?  I do, in a fashion, simply because he voluntarily chose to serve.  They're all heroes, all the servicemen and women who make that choice.  As it turns out some don't fulfill the inherent promise, but I'm not willing to strip them of their hero status until it's been proven that they don't deserve it.


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## ondeadlin (Jun 3, 2014)

SueDonJ said:


> And you have to admit, some people have skipped right over a willingness to let the facts play out in due time, opting instead to be righteously indignant from the get-go.



This is really an unfortunate downside to our current instant information/instant news world.

Nobody knows what really happened, but the cable news and talk radio shows have to fill airtime, and the internet is endless, so speculation substitutes for facts, and people get confused and draw conclusions as if speculation is fact.

These soldiers branding this man a deserter have no idea if he deserted.  They weren't there.  They certainly didn't say so at the time - or at any time leading up to this.  I think they are genuine in their opinions, but opinions are not facts.

Again, this will play out over time.  Nobody needs to draw a conclusion at this point.

But whether he had a breakdown and wandered off, was captured, was drunk or actually deserted, we weren't going to leave him in the hands of the Taliban.  We simply don't do that to our soldiers.


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## myoakley (Jun 3, 2014)

The soldiers who are now speaking out had been forbidden to discuss the matter as long as Bergdahl was being held.  Now that he has been returned, they are telling what they know and witnessed.


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## SueDonJ (Jun 3, 2014)

myoakley said:


> The soldiers who are now speaking out had been forbidden to discuss the matter as long as Bergdahl was being held.  Now that he has been returned, they are telling what they know and witnessed.



And when Bergdahl gets his chance to speak, we'll be able to measure what he says against what his fellow soldiers are saying now.  Getting back to what ondeadlin says about speculation, maybe it would be best if all of them saved their speaking for the proper forum.  They're not accusing him of anything remotely trivial, that's for sure, and IMO he's right now being unfairly tried in the wrong court.


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## SueDonJ (Jun 3, 2014)

Wonka said:


> I've had mixed feelings about the release from the beginning.  First, it appears some very dangerous Terrorists were released that will be back in the game soon.  Second, the bypassing of the legal requirement of notification is troubling (although I can somewhat understand the need for quick action).
> 
> But, the new information that the prisoner was a deserter and others were killed trying to find him really bothers me.
> 
> ...



There's nothing wrong with converting to the Islam faith.  Do you mean you're wondering if he became a terrorist sympathizer?


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## PStreet1 (Jun 3, 2014)

Breaking news in the Washington Times:

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/jun/2/pentagon-knew-berghdahls-whereabouts-but-didnt-ris/


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## PigsDad (Jun 3, 2014)

SueDonJ said:


> There's nothing wrong with converting to the Islam faith.  Do you mean you're wondering if he became a terrorist sympathizer?


To a lot of close-minded people, there is no difference between the two.

Kurt


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## theo (Jun 3, 2014)

SueDonJ said:


> And when Bergdahl gets his chance to speak, we'll be able to measure what he says against what his fellow soldiers are saying now.  Getting back to what ondeadlin says about speculation, maybe it would be best if all of them saved their speaking for the proper forum.  They're not accusing him of anything remotely trivial, that's for sure, and IMO he's right now being unfairly tried in the wrong court.



I certainly don't want to encourage or engage in pointless commentary or ongoing banter on this topic beyond what I've already briefly stated above, but I will simply note that you indirectly make a very valid point about "trial and judgement". 

In essence, it doesn't matter a bit what media monkeys and talking heads, indignant and / or otherwise clueless civilians, anonymous Internet discussions, or even (maybe a bit out-of-line) enlisted personnel might have to say on or about this matter --- at least not until / unless actually testifying under oath in a UCMJ proceeding. 

The only "trial" or "court" that really and truly means anything at all in this *military* matter has not yet even begun to occur. I will just repeat the four letters UCMJ which, once again for those unfamiliar, stands for _*Uniform Code of Military Justice*_. That particular, definitive day of reckoning will almost surely arrive --- sooner or later.


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## myoakley (Jun 3, 2014)

PStreet1 said:


> Breaking news in the Washington Times:
> 
> http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/jun/2/pentagon-knew-berghdahls-whereabouts-but-didnt-ris/



Wow!  This article pretty much says it all.


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## theo (Jun 3, 2014)

*Not hardly...*



myoakley said:


> Wow!  This article pretty much says it all.



Not to burst your bubble, but *nothing* originating from D.C. desk jockeys in the civilian media can ever presume to "say it all" in *any* military matter.


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## ace2000 (Jun 3, 2014)

theo said:


> The only "trial" or "court" that really and truly means anything at all in this *military* matter has not yet occurred. I will just repeat the four letters UCMJ which, once again, stands for the _*Uniform Code of Military Justice*_. That particular and definitive day of reckoning will almost surely arrive --- sooner or later.



Not to burst your bubble, but nobody in government is currently saying that any sort of trial or UCMJ punishment will take place.


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## SueDonJ (Jun 3, 2014)

theo said:


> I certainly don't want to encourage or engage in pointless commentary or ongoing banter on this topic beyond what I've already briefly stated above, but I will note that you indirectly make a very valid point about "trial and judgement".
> 
> In essence, it doesn't matter a bit what media monkeys and talking heads, indignant and / or otherwise clueless civilians, anonymous Internet discussions, or even (maybe a bit out-of-line) enlisted personnel might have to say  ---at least until / unless actually testifying under oath in a UCMJ proceeding.
> 
> The only "trial" or "court" that really and truly means anything at all in this matter has not yet occurred. I will just again repeat the four letters UCMJ, which stands for the _*Uniform Code of Military Justice*_. That day of reckoning will very likely arrive --- sooner or later.



"Indirectly?"  Here I thought I was being quite direct!


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## theo (Jun 3, 2014)

ace2000 said:


> Not to burst your bubble, but nobody in government is currently saying that any sort of trial or UCMJ punishment will take place.



Oddly enough, there would not actually be a "press release" or "media announcement" from within the military regarding prior or ongoing preliminary fact finding and / or active investigation associated with a potential UCMJ proceeding (i.e., court martial). Do you actually have any personal experience in (or any other sort of familiarity with) military service and / or its' internal procedural workings, or are you just being unnecessarily snarky here for the sheer sake of it?


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## SueDonJ (Jun 3, 2014)

myoakley said:


> Wow!  This article pretty much says it all.



It says a lot, sure, but not sure it says it all.  And none of the new allegations it says have been definitively corroborated by official/legal means.


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## ace2000 (Jun 3, 2014)

theo said:


> Do you actually have any personal experience in (or any other sort of familiarity with) military service and / or its' internal procedural workings, or are you just being unnecessarily snarky here?



Snarky?  I used the same words you did in your prior post directly in front of mine.  Might want to reflect a bit on on that.  

Yes, I served in the Air Force for 12 years.  I am very familiar with the UCMJ and what it means.


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## Phill12 (Jun 3, 2014)

bogey21 said:


> I, too, am happy for Beau, his family and the community.  On the other hand I fear for those in the future who might end up being kidnapped because of the precedent set in this case.
> 
> George



 I agree and understand your thinking! I was in service in 1968-69 on the America in VN and the one rule you learn fast is America does not leave its service man behind.  

 PHILL12


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## Passepartout (Jun 3, 2014)

PStreet1 said:


> Breaking news in the Washington Times:
> 
> http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/jun/2/pentagon-knew-berghdahls-whereabouts-but-didnt-ris/



Here's the headline for those who don't like to click links: *Special forces found Bergdahl and captors but wouldn’t risk rescue for ‘deserter’*

I try to avoid the 'If you don't like the message, shoot the messenger' mentality. In this case, I find this article entirely credible. It just makes sense that with as many 'assets' as the U.S. has in the neighborhood, that a well guarded prisoner could be held without our gov't's knowledge.


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## Phill12 (Jun 3, 2014)

[Political comments deleted.]


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## ampaholic (Jun 3, 2014)

I will finally say my .002 on this subject:

First; I am amazed this thread is not yet locked.

Second; If this whole situation seems eerily familiar - get the DVD of Showtime's series Homeland.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1796960/


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## singlemalt_18 (Jun 3, 2014)

SueDonJ said:


> ... And none of the new allegations it says have been *definitively corroborated by official/legal means*.



This really has little to do with “definitively corroborated official or legal means” and it is a distraction to make this about innocent until proven guilty – think Boston Marathon Bombers.  Occam’s Razor when distilled down to its essence becomes the law of parsimony… in other words, the rule of simplicity. Sometimes nothing more is needed than to take things at face value; things are simply exactly what they appear to be.  This thread proves it.

[Political comments deleted.]


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## ampaholic (Jun 3, 2014)

ondeadlin said:


> This is really an unfortunate downside to our current instant information/instant news world.
> 
> Nobody knows what really happened, but the cable news and talk radio shows have to fill airtime, and the internet is endless, so speculation substitutes for facts, and people get confused and draw conclusions as if speculation is fact.
> 
> ...



This is very well said - also keep in mind the soldiers in our ARMY are not clones - they sometimes have oddball opinions .... at least if they are at all like jar heads. 

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2014/06/02/bergdahl-afghanistan-taliban/9884769/


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## bogey21 (Jun 3, 2014)

theo said:


> In essence, it doesn't matter a bit what media monkeys and talking heads, indignant and / or otherwise clueless civilians, anonymous Internet discussions, or even (maybe a bit out-of-line) *enlisted personnel *might have to say on or about this matter --- at least not until / unless actually testifying under oath in a UCMJ proceeding.



I resent the singling out of "enlisted personnel" in your comment as though they have less creditability than officers.  I was one of those "enlisted personnel" who served I believe with distinction in Korea.  

George


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## DeniseM (Jun 3, 2014)

bogey21 said:


> I resent the singling out of "enlisted personnel" in your comment as though they have less creditability than officers.  I was one of those "enlisted personnel" who served I believe with distinction in Korea.
> 
> George



He isn't "singling out" enlisted personnel - a number of soldiers who served with Bergdahl have made statements about him.  They are "enlisted personnel," that's just a fact - not an insult.


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## SueDonJ (Jun 3, 2014)

singlemalt_18 said:


> This really has little to do with “definitively corroborated official or legal means” and it is a distraction to make this about innocent until proven guilty – think Boston Marathon Bombers.  Occam’s Razor when distilled down to its essence becomes the law of parsimony… in other words, the rule of simplicity. Sometimes nothing more is needed than to take things at face value; things are simply exactly what they appear to be.  This thread proves it. ...



Could be.  But the charges being leveled against Bergdahl in the media are legal in nature - desertion, treason, etc. - and the only way I think you combat legal charges is in a legal setting.  It may well be that they're eventually proven true, legally.  It wouldn't be a surprise if what's out there now is substantiated.

Of course in a discussion we're free to form an opinion in advance of any court actions - it's an American sport to try everything in the court of public opinion!  As flawed as that is as a system, there's no law against it!    It can even be an intellectually enjoyable pastime, but I'd like to at least hear Bergdahl's defense before playing that game.  Whether he shares it informally or is compelled in a court, that's when I'll be comfortable with forming an opinion about his guilt or innocence.


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## ace2000 (Jun 3, 2014)

singlemalt_18 said:


> This really has little to do with “definitively corroborated official or legal means” and it is a distraction to make this about innocent until proven guilty – think Boston Marathon Bombers.  Occam’s Razor when distilled down to its essence becomes the law of parsimony… in other words, the rule of simplicity. Sometimes nothing more is needed than to take things at face value; things are simply exactly what they appear to be.  This thread proves it.



Very well said.  This is a discussion forum not a court of law.  Many on here that are heavily involved in this discussion and going down "the innocent until proven guilty route" in this thread had no problem discussing Sandusky, Lance Armstrong, or the Boston Bomber in those respective TUG threads before any guilt was proven.  All you got to do is search, I won't name names.


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## ondeadlin (Jun 3, 2014)

PStreet1 said:


> Breaking news in the Washington Times:
> 
> http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/jun/2/pentagon-knew-berghdahls-whereabouts-but-didnt-ris/



The Washington Times is a hyper-partisan, hyper-political media site that is not taken seriously by legitimate media.  That story relies on unnamed sources anonymously slandering an American soldier, one of whom is a political aid.

Why is it so difficult to simply take some time to see how this plays out?  If these accusations are so trustworthy, why are these "sources" unwilling to put their names to them?

It's really shameful stuff.


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## TUGBrian (Jun 3, 2014)

lasted longer than I thought it would...


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