# Should coach paxs expect to use the First Class Lavatorie



## Helios (Jun 28, 2017)

As a pax traveling in F I say no, unless there are extenuating circumstances.

As a pax traveling in Coach I say no, tough luck and pay for the perk the next time.

As a pax traveling in Coach with a child who needs to use the lav and there is a line in the back I say no, tough luck and pay for the perk the next time.

Thoughts?


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## bnoble (Jun 28, 2017)

Eh, I don't get too worked up about it (and I'm up front a bit more than half the time)---there are enough other things to worry about.


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## x3 skier (Jun 28, 2017)

No but it's not a thing I obsess over. 

Cheers


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## dioxide45 (Jun 28, 2017)

Coach fliers butts must be dirtier than those of the FC passengers? On small planes where there may only be 12 or 16 business/first class seats with one restroom and the main cabin may have 100 or more also with only one restroom. Not sure that it would work on certain types of aircraft, the 737 comes to mind.


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## Passepartout (Jun 28, 2017)

They should not. Flight attendants will send coach pax back to the coach lavs. Not my rule, but that's how it is.

Jim


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## Helios (Jun 28, 2017)

bnoble said:


> Eh, I don't get too worked up about it (and I'm up front a bit more than half the time)---there are enough other things to worry about.


I don't either, I would say I go in the front  of the bus 80%+ of my trips (about 50% of those are paid tickets) and half of those are rewards.  

This is a follow up to a conversation that hijacked the SW HI thread.  I am curious to see what people think.


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## DebBrown (Jun 28, 2017)

As a pax traveling in Coach with a child who needs to use the lav and there is a cart blocking the aisle, I say yes.  That cart could be there for a very long time.  I will travel in first as often as I can but it's not so I can have a private bathroom.

I assume you read the article about the grandma and 2 year old?


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## Helios (Jun 28, 2017)

x3 skier said:


> No but it's not a thing I obsess over.
> 
> Cheers


Agree...


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## Helios (Jun 28, 2017)

dioxide45 said:


> Coach fliers butts must be dirtier than those of the FC passengers? On small planes where there may only be 12 or 16 business/first class seats with one restroom and the main cabin may have 100 or more also with only one restroom. Not sure that it would work on certain types of aircraft, the 737 comes to mind.


That's not what I am implying at all.  This is about expectations level.  If you have enough for a Bettle but VW is a sold out, would Mercedes let you have an S-Class for the price a Bettle...

So far, it seems F paxs don't care as much as Coach paxs think they should be allowed


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## Helios (Jun 28, 2017)

Passepartout said:


> They should not. Flight attendants will send coach pax back to the coach lavs. Not my rule, but that's how it is.
> 
> Jim


100% agree, and I support the rule for the most part.  There should always be some level of judgement and humanity when applying the rule, IMO.


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## Helios (Jun 28, 2017)

DebBrown said:


> As a pax traveling in Coach with a child who needs to use the lav and there is a cart blocking the aisle, I say yes.  That cart could be there for a very long time.  I will travel in first as often as I can but it's not so I can have a private bathroom.
> 
> I assume you read the article about the grandma and 2 year old?



I did not read it.

Like I said above, there should be some level of judgement when determining if the coach pax is allowed.  

In my case, I have kids and a couple of times when they were little they had to use the bathroom when the aisle was blocked.  They quickly learned the hard way to go to the bathroom before boarding because the bathroom may be in use, the aisle may be blocked, there may be turbulence...they are good flyers now.  And they know that they are not allowed to use the lav in F if they are traveling in Coach.


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## am1 (Jun 28, 2017)

When I am in business/first I say no.  When I am in coach I think no but if one of my sons must go then it will be somewhere and not in their pants.  

My kids are very good but knowing which bathroom they can and cannot use does not register with them.  I taught them to use the "bathroom" to go wherever they wanted/could.  Short term great but long term maybe not so much.


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## Helios (Jun 28, 2017)

am1 said:


> When I am in business/first I say no.  When I am in coach I think no but if one of my sons must go then it will be somewhere and not in their pants.
> 
> My kids are very good but knowing which bathroom they can and cannot use does not register with them.  I taught them to use the "bathroom" to go wherever they wanted/could.  Short term great but long term maybe not so much.


Luckily for us, the kids could wait (I knew their pants would be safe).


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## billymach4 (Jun 28, 2017)

Helios said:


> As a pax traveling in F I say no, unless there are extenuating circumstances.
> 
> As a pax traveling in Coach I say no, tough luck and pay for the perk the next time.
> 
> ...



If you have to go you have to go. Tough luck on you that you paid for the perk. No human should have to be inconvenienced due a bodily function due to the location of a lav. First class or not.


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## MichaelColey (Jun 28, 2017)

If I'm in one of the first few rows of coach (which is usually where I am if I'm not in first class) and it's 40 aisles back to the coach bathroom or 10 aisles up to the first class bathroom and the first class bathroom is currently vacant and there isn't a curtain up dividing the classes (and especially if the cart is blocking the aisle behind me), I'm heading for the first class bathroom every single time.  I've never had anyone stop me, give me a dirty look, or question me about it on my way back.

That said, I seldom use the bathroom on flights, and if I do, I try to time it for one of the slower times (i.e. not right after the cart goes through and not 30 minutes before we land).  Most flights I take are under 3 hours, and my bladder can hold out longer than that.  Hawaii would be an exception, but those are usually big enough planes that there are many bathrooms.


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## lizap (Jun 29, 2017)

People pay a premium to fly F class and should not have to wait in line behind coach passengers to use the FC restroom, unless there is an extreme emergency.


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## Helios (Jun 29, 2017)

lizap said:


> People pay a premium to fly F class and should not have to wait in line behind coach passengers to use the FC restroom, unless there is an extreme emergency.


This is my main premise.


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## vacationhopeful (Jun 29, 2017)

So, which bath do the flight attendants use?

And if the flight attendant works in coach & uses the coach lav, should they have to clean the 1st class lav ... if it needs to be 'refreshed'?

Please .... when flying I feel no need to be the "who uses what toilet" moderator while sitting in an undersize seat with very limited leg room.

PS ... What might be more important is "does the flight attendant use a hand cleaner after doing ANYTHING in the bathroom"?


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## Helios (Jun 29, 2017)

vacationhopeful said:


> PS ... What might be more important is "does the flight attendant use a hand cleaner after doing ANYTHING in the bathroom"?



That's a good one.


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## Helios (Jun 29, 2017)

MichaelColey said:


> That said, I seldom use the bathroom on flights, and if I do, I try to time it for one of the slower times (i.e. not right after the cart goes through and not 30 minutes before we land).  Most flights I take are under 3 hours, and my bladder can hold out longer than that.  Hawaii would be an exception, but those are usually big enough planes that there are many bathrooms.


I agree with this.  I think minor planning and discipline can go a long a way.


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## Helios (Jun 29, 2017)

billymach4 said:


> If you have to go you have to go. Tough luck on you that you paid for the perk. No human should have to be inconvenienced due a bodily function due to the location of a lav. First class or not.


Sure, I agree with this, that's why I mentioned extenuating circumstances and humanity can come into play.

However, although I cannot prove it, I believe a significant percentage of Coach paxs who use the F lav do it because they feel they are entitled.  That is the attitude that creates animosity against Americans outside our borders.  I believe there is a reason why FAs remind people that the F lav is for F paxs.  So, that is my problem with this.  

Keep in mind that this thread started as a separate follow up from the SW to HI thread which discussed widebody vs single aisle plane preferences and using the lav in the front came into play.

It is different to go to the bathroom during a game vs doing so during a practice when few people are in attendance, isn't it.  The more people who use the lav the dirtiest the lav will be and the higher the chances for occupied lav. 

If I pay F I expect to only compete for lav time with F paxs. If I pay coach, I can only expect to receive what I paid for, follow rules, and deal with it. 

So, aside people needing to use the lav because otherwise they will go in their pants (assuming there is a line in the back lavs), what is everybody's take?


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## rapmarks (Jun 29, 2017)

We don't fly often but had seats in the comfort aisle right behind first class. I asked attendant which restroom to use and he told me the forward one, which was through first class.  Never knew it was so offensive 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## VacationForever (Jun 29, 2017)

lizap said:


> People pay a premium to fly F class and should not have to wait in line behind coach passengers to use the FC restroom, unless there is an extreme emergency.


Yep, that is my position too.


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## geekette (Jun 29, 2017)

Helios said:


> As a pax traveling in F I say no, unless there are extenuating circumstances.
> 
> As a pax traveling in Coach I say no, tough luck and pay for the perk the next time.
> 
> ...


I think we need less bathroom rules in the air and on the ground.  Humans have basic needs that shouldn't devolve into who paid what to sit where.

I do everything possible to avoiding needing to use airplane restroom.  If the need arises, it's best to take care of it before it becomes an urgent matter.  Carts in the aisle is to me ridiculous.  Why is there the expectation of refreshments anyway?  Doesn't this compound the restroom issue?

luckily, I am mostly a road trip person!


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## klpca (Jun 29, 2017)

rapmarks said:


> We don't fly often but had seats in the comfort aisle right behind first class. I asked attendant which restroom to use and he told me the forward one, which was through first class.  Never knew it was so offensive
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


I had this exact same situation. Not sure why we were told to use the front lav, but we were.

I don't expect much in life and have never felt entitled. I try to follow rules, be compassionate, and kind. I hope to be treated the same in return. It doesn't always happen but it doesn't particularly bother me. Honestly, if a kid needs to use the loo, I'd let them - mostly to prevent a smelly situation. That said, for our last few flights I selected seats near the bathroom because one in our party needed quick access because of a medical issue. It wasn't anyone else's problem, just ours, and selecting these seats kept the problem to a minimum.


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## VacationForever (Jun 29, 2017)

What has not been mentioned which urks me has nothing to do with first class or coach passengers, is that people stand around the front while waiting for the lavatory.  Post 9/11, people are not supposed to do that as it is close to the cockpit.  Some flight attendants do their job and ask the passengers to return to their seats and some don't. If the front is open and unused, help yourselt to it but obviously a first class passenger being close to the front will beat the coach passenger.

The other thing is the planes need to have is more and larger lavatories. I am considered slim but sure have a hard time moving around in that space.


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## lizap (Jun 29, 2017)

VacationForever said:


> What has not been mentioned which urks me has nothing to do with first class or coach passengers, is that people stand around the front while waiting for the lavatory.  Post 9/11, people are not supposed to do that as it is close to the cockpit.  Some flight attendants do their job and ask the passengers to return to their seats and some don't. If the front is open and unused, help yourselt to it but obviously a first class passenger being close to the front will beat the coach passenger.
> 
> The other thing is the planes need to have is more and larger lavatories. I am considered slim but sure have a hard time moving around in that space.



Southwest is very particular about this.  Last time we flew Delta, we were in F, and I noticed the FAs allowed people to stand near the forward lavatory near the cockpit door.  Is this an FAA rule or an airline rule?


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## 1Kflyerguy (Jun 29, 2017)

I generally try to follow the rules and use the lav in my ticketed cabin.  But that can be tough when there is a big line in back of the plane.   For some reason, United frequently doesn't close the curtain between first and coach.


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## lynne (Jun 29, 2017)

VacationForever said:


> What has not been mentioned which urks me has nothing to do with first class or coach passengers, is that people stand around the front while waiting for the lavatory.  Post 9/11, people are not supposed to do that as it is close to the cockpit.  Some flight attendants do their job and ask the passengers to return to their seats and some don't. If the front is open and unused, help yourselt to it but obviously a first class passenger being close to the front will beat the coach passenger.
> 
> The other thing is the planes need to have is more and larger lavatories. I am considered slim but sure have a hard time moving around in that space.



Just experienced this situation on 3 flights yesterday.  Flying F, there was a line of passengers from coach waiting for the forward lavatory.  It made it very difficult even though I was in front to get up to use the lav.  On all flights, the FA did NOT send or even acknowledge that these passengers should use the lav in the cabin they were assigned.  There was a curtain which had absolutely no impact as it was moved aside time and time again.  Sitting in the last row of F made the situation a bit annoying.  I do not believe the lavatory 'rules' are enforced any longer by AA.


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## b2bailey (Jun 29, 2017)

I rarely fly first class, and rarely would use their restrooms from coach. I thought it was funny because yesterday on a United flight I was surprised to hear the attendant say those who were sitting forward of the refreshment carts could use the forward lavs during that interval.

Never heard that before.

Also, I originally used the word "never" instead of rarely -- but reconsidered since my return flight home from Mexico could possibly involve an attack of Montezuma's revenge. In that case, I might if thee aisle was blocked.


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## dioxide45 (Jun 29, 2017)

Helios said:


> However, although I cannot prove it, I believe a significant percentage of Coach paxs who use the F lav do it because they feel they are entitled.


I don't think that is it at all. It isn't like people are coming from the back of coach to use the front lavatory. They are using it because they have to go and there either a cart between them and the back, it is the closest, or there is a long line in the back and no wait in the front. It isn't like the first class lavatory has potpourri and softer three-ply toilet paper and everyone is clamoring to us it and feel like they are flying in first by using the lavatory in first. It is just another smelly cramped toilet.



rapmarks said:


> We don't fly often but had seats in the comfort aisle right behind first class. I asked attendant which restroom to use and he told me the forward one, which was through first class.  Never knew it was so offensive


It isn't offensive, for the most part people don't care. It isn't like the first class lavatory is bigger or better than the one in coach. I am actually surprised by the elitist attitudes I am reading here.



VacationForever said:


> What has not been mentioned which urks me has nothing to do with first class or coach passengers, is that people stand around the front while waiting for the lavatory. Post 9/11, people are not supposed to do that as it is close to the cockpit. Some flight attendants do their job and ask the passengers to return to their seats and some don't.


On our last flight, which was Frontier, they said no more than one person at a time could be waiting for the lavatory in the front. I think the main issue is room. The galley is right there and the FAs need room to move around.

My understanding, at least from what I have heard FAs state on international flights, is that on international flights one must use the lavatory in your cabin. I know of no such rule and have never heard FAs state such on a domestic flight.


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## davidvel (Jun 30, 2017)

I have never seen any documentation  from any airline, including their website that has ever stated that there are dedicated bathrooms for first class as a privilege for those tickets, like free wine and meals. Never. Ever.


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## T_R_Oglodyte (Jun 30, 2017)

I do about 90% of my flights on Alaska.  About one-third FC - almost always because of upgrade, so when I"m in FC I haven't paid any extra for it.  Almost all Alaska planes are some version 0f 737.  

At takeoff, there is an announcement that passengers are to use the lavs in their class.  In practice, when there is a cart in the aisle behind you, they send you forward.  However, passengers are not allowed to queue up near the forward lavatories, neither FC nor coach.  Coach passengers, if they need to wait, are expected to stay in the coach section.  Sometimes when I'm in FC and waiting for the lav, I use that as an opportunity to stand up in the aisle and do some stretching.

*******

FWIW - On the remodeled aircraft that Alaska is deploying, first class seating is being reduced from four rows to three, to accommodate the increased pitch in the premium coach section.  Also the curtains between FC and coach are being removed.  With one less row of FC, I think the expectation is that the front lav will be used by the premium class passengers.


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## lizap (Jun 30, 2017)

davidvel said:


> I have never seen any documentation  from any airline, including their website that has ever stated that there are dedicated bathrooms for first class as a privilege for those tickets, like free wine and meals. Never. Ever.



I have been on multiple airlines in the past where an announcement was m


T_R_Oglodyte said:


> I do about 90% of my flights on Alaska.  About one-third FC - almost always because of upgrade, so when I"m in FC I haven't paid any extra for it.  Almost all Alaska planes are some version 0f 737.
> 
> At takeoff, there is an announcement that passengers are to use the lavs in their class.  In practice, when there is a cart in the aisle behind you, they send you forward.  However, passengers are not allowed to queue up near the forward lavatories, neither FC nor coach.  Coach passengers, if they need to wait, are expected to stay in the coach section.  Sometimes when I'm in FC and waiting for the lav, I use that as an opportunity to stand up in the aisle and do some stretching.
> 
> ...



I have been on many flights over the years where the announcement was made to use the restroom in your section/class.  It has nothing to do with having an elitist attitude. If you pay for a FC ticket, you should not have to wait in line behind umpteen coach passsengers, unless there is an extreme emergency. In these situations, everyone gets that you have to get to the nearest restroom asap.  This has become more of an issue since the curtains were taken down after 911.


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## dougp26364 (Jun 30, 2017)

Helios said:


> As a pax traveling in F I say no, unless there are extenuating circumstances.
> 
> As a pax traveling in Coach I say no, tough luck and pay for the perk the next time.
> 
> ...



My personal opinion is no, that lavatory should be reserved for first class passengers. Having one lavatory for the smaller group of first class passengers is one of the perks you pay for to be in first class. There shouldn't be a line, or as long of a line, as in coach class to use the lavatory.

Now from a practice point I understand why coach class uses the lavatory at the front of the plane. Some passengers have urgency issues, some have small children who wait until last minute to announce they need to go and airlines, more concerned with profits, don't provide an adaquate number of lavatories for the number of coach class seats. Not to mention you're always told to hydrate when flying but, hydration results in necessary room usage. Airlines don't make it easy in passengers in coach when it comes to lavatory availability and that results in coach class passengers in the first class lavatory. 

If airlines saw this as an issue, they'd provide first class passengers with a lavatory only they could access using some type of lock and key card. But that would require some expense, likely some bad PR from a few "entitled" coach class passengers and shedding light on the thought that there is insufficient lavatories per passenger seat creating potential health risks as passengers failed to hydrate appropriately so as not to have to use the facilities which are inadequate.


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## Helios (Jun 30, 2017)

dioxide45 said:


> I am actually surprised by the elitist attitudes I am reading here.


From my perspective, this has nothing to do with being elitist.  To me this post is about following rules (use the bathroom in your ticketed cabin) and having the appropriate expectations (don't use the F lav, if you can hold it, just because the line in the back is long and you happen to be closer to the F lav.  Judgement and Humanity need to be considered into this.  That is it.

There is a reason why F paxs pay more and everybody should understand it and leave with it.

As a side note, I deal with people issues a lot at my company.  Every time I institute a new policy, I can always predict who will come down my office to complain about said policy.  It's usually the same people.  Also, the same group of people almost never complains.  Why is it that?  Can someone guess who the complainers are?...


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## Helios (Jun 30, 2017)

How do people feel about the flight crew letting the F paxs out first in planes that have mid doors (for instance 757 and higher for Boeing)?  This involves physically blocking the paxs in the back.  Is this elitist?


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## Helios (Jun 30, 2017)

Just found this..http://viewfromthewing.boardingarea.com/2017/05/15/coach-passengers-use-first-class-lavatory/


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## MichaelColey (Jun 30, 2017)

Helios said:


> How do people feel about the flight crew letting the F paxs out first in planes that have mid doors (for instance 757 and higher for Boeing)?  This involves physically blocking the paxs in the back.  Is this elitist?



I think that's totally acceptable and would be inappropriate to do any other way. You don't want two groups of people trying to merge and get out at once. F boards first. F exits first. That's a perk of F.


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## davidvel (Jun 30, 2017)

lizap said:


> I have been on many flights over the years *where the announcement was made* to use the restroom in your section/class.  It has nothing to do with having an elitist attitude. *If you pay for a FC ticket, you should not have to wait in line behind umpteen coach passsengers*, unless there is an extreme emergency. In these situations, everyone gets that you have to get to the nearest restroom asap.  This has become more of an issue since the curtains were taken down after 911.





Helios said:


> From my perspective, this has nothing to do with being elitist.  *To me this post is about following rules (use the bathroom in your ticketed cabin)* and having the appropriate expectations (don't use the F lav, if you can hold it, just because the line in the back is long and you happen to be closer to the F lav.  Judgement and Humanity need to be considered into this.  That is it.



I'm not here to argue if they _should be_ reserved for First Class, I don't disagree that its a policy _announced after boarding,_ and that all first class passengers believe they are only for them_. _I  just find it curious that I've never seen any such policy _in writing_, in descriptions of benefits for first class (nor in any disclaimer that coach passengers are limited to coach bathrooms.) Maybe I just haven't looked far enough. Also, many have noted that "exceptions" are made to this unwritten "policy."

I think a lot of the problems that are encountered on flights these days with passengers refusing to move, etc. and failing to comply with the "rules", are from these "unwritten policies," especially with more and more non-savvy passengers taking to the sky. It leads to people thinking they have a right to something that was never promised when they bought their ticket.


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## sue1947 (Jun 30, 2017)

dioxide45 said:


> I don't think that is it at all. It isn't like people are coming from the back of coach to use the front lavatory. They are using it because they have to go and there either a cart between them and the back, it is the closest, or there is a long line in the back and no wait in the front. It isn't like the first class lavatory has potpourri and softer three-ply toilet paper and everyone is clamoring to us it and feel like they are flying in first by using the lavatory in first. It is just another smelly cramped toilet.



Agree 100%.  People are just too darn cranky and looking for things to pick a fight over.  Using the first class toilet (cramped, smelly, nothing special) should not be one of them.  If somebody has to go, let them use whatever toilet is available.  Have some compassion.  Sheesh...

Sue


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## Helios (Jun 30, 2017)

MichaelColey said:


> I think that's totally acceptable and would be inappropriate to do any other way. You don't want two groups of people trying to merge and get out at once. F boards first. F exits first. That's a perk of F.


I agree 100%. 

But, is this elitist, sounds like you may be catering to an elitist class...


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## MichaelColey (Jun 30, 2017)

Helios said:


> I agree 100%.
> 
> But, is this elitist, sounds like you may be catering to an elist class...



Absolutely. There's a big list of things that you get when you're flying First or have elite status with an airline. Those are the things that keep me loyal to those airlines where I have elite status.

Elite bathrooms is not on that list.


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## vacationhopeful (Jun 30, 2017)

*Best rear bathroom story I have*: SWA flight from LAX to Chicago. Almost full flight. Performers and support staff heading to the first stop of the TOURING troop of "High School Musical 2" being the middle school who won an Oprah's contest. Tour manager placed his credit card with the flight attendants and it was OPEN BAR ... the kitchen was in the rear along with the 2 lavs plus a side exit door. Like 3 hours of FREE DRINKS ... About 1/2 the tour staff slept thru out the place; at least 25-30 people in the rear galley for hours. If ANYONE got up from their seats, turned to go to the rear bathrooms, LOOK liked _"the line???" _we would wave and say "no wait ... come on down" ... and about 2/3 did come to the rear of the plane, use the loos, and then have a drink or two with the rest of the partying fools ... passengers & HS Musical 2 members.

I had to change planes in Chicago .... I did make it, but almost didn't. Lesson learned: Drink Less (Free Drinks) when flying with a plane change.


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## lizap (Jun 30, 2017)

Helios said:


> I agree 100%.
> 
> But, is this elitist, sounds like you may be catering to an elist class...



 Completely agree. Seems to me there is a lot of hypocracy going on in this thread with all this judgement...


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## Helios (Jun 30, 2017)

dioxide45 said:


> So you found an editorial piece where someone agrees with your opinion. That doesn't prove much. There really is no law or rule about use of the FC lavatory by a coach passenger, at least on domestic flights. *It is rare that we have ever hear such an announcement*, and only when flying international. I don't see situations where coach passengers are using the FC lavatory for the sale of using the FC lavatory.



Please look at my post again, I simply said "Just found this...http://viewfromthewing.boardingarea.com/2017/05/15/coach-passengers-use-first-class-lavatory/".  I never said that link contained authoritative information to support my case.  I simply posted the link to add to the posts above. 

You said it is rare? I hear it about 50% of the times or more.  This is on domestic flights.  International flights don't have to say it because they have physical means to prevent the use of the F lav by non F paxs...What happens if you need to go in your pants...How about the British Airways ropes that separate First from Business...who knows what they use between business and premium economy or economy... 

Presumably, both of us are accurately stating their experience flying which has to mean we fly different airlines..  In that case, we will have to agree to disagree...


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## Helios (Jun 30, 2017)

lizap said:


> Completely agree. Seems to me there is a lot of hypocracy going on in this thread with all this judgement...



Sure, I am actually finding it extremely very entertaining.  I am borderline offended about being called elitist...

Perhaps *no one* should fly F so the problem goes away.  No F paxs no issue ...and guess what happens next...perhaps coach fares would go up and every body pays more...


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## Helios (Jun 30, 2017)

vacationhopeful said:


> *Best rear bathroom story I have*: SWA flight from LAX to Chicago. Almost full flight. Performers and support staff heading to the first stop of the TOURING troop of "High School Musical 2" being the middle school who won an Oprah's contest. Tour manager placed his credit card with the flight attendants and it was OPEN BAR ... the kitchen was in the rear along with the 2 lavs plus a side exit door. Like 3 hours of FREE DRINKS ... About 1/2 the tour staff slept thru out the place; at least 25-30 people in the rear galley for hours. If ANYONE got up from their seats, turned to go to the rear bathrooms, LOOK liked _"the line???" _we would wave and say "no wait ... come on down" ... and about 2/3 did come to the rear of the plane, use the loos, and then have a drink or two with the rest of the partying fools ... passengers & HS Musical 2 members.
> 
> I had to change planes in Chicago .... I did make it, but almost didn't. Lesson learned: Drink Less (Free Drinks) when flying with a plane change.


Good one...Was the nice person who provided the cc for the open bar elitist? 

Sounds to me he/she could have being catering to the ideology that says if it's free it for me...


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## vacationhopeful (Jun 30, 2017)

It was the manager of the touring professional cast for the "High School Musical 2" troop ... think "a Broadway show" on the road ... who put up his corporate credit card. So, not elitist in any way ... it was an open party. At least 1/2 the touring crew (cast members) where sleeping thru out the cabin ... those not asleep, seem to be burning off steam or stress from multiple weeks of trying out, practice and then MORE practice.


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## Helios (Jun 30, 2017)

Does anyone know how variable toll lanes (HOT) work?  Say I-95 between Washington and Quantico.  Many other places use them.

Drivers pay to use these lanes because they don't want to seat in traffic.  The toll goes up or down depending on traffic on the HOT lanes and on the regular lanes.  This is done to regulate traffic volume and provide free flow for the HOT lane users.  If the toll is too high no one uses them, if it is low every body uses them.  So they right balance needs to be applied to maximize revenue and provide customer satisfaction.

I think demand pricing may be the answer in this case......perhaps people would wait for their turn to use the lav in their ticketed cabin which would be included in their ticket price...If they want to use the lav in the front, they can pay a use fee.  Sounds fair to me.  Somehow I think the number of needy people having to use the F lav could go down...Again, I would advocate for judgement and humanity which could be used to waive the fee...


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## Helios (Jun 30, 2017)

vacationhopeful said:


> It was the manager of the touring professional cast for the "High School Musical 2" troop ... think "a Broadway show" on the road ... who put up his corporate credit card. So, not elitist in any way ... it was an open party. At least 1/2 the touring crew (cast members) where sleeping thru out the cabin ... those not asleep, seem to be burning off steam or stress from multiple weeks of trying out, practice and then MORE practice.


Understood.  I was being sarcastic and used your post to try to understand the use of the word "elitist" because apparently I am elitist.

I am starting to get it...as an example, I guess I am elitist because I send my kids to private school and pay dearly for it...

Not sure why I don't get thank you notes from the kids and parents who get public education subsidized by my taxes which I will say are very high...I suppose these two statements make an elitist cry baby.

*Again, my posts in this thread have nothing to do with being elitist...if they appear to be, I am being misunderstood by the person who think they are...From my perspective, this post is about following rules (use the bathroom in your ticketed cabin) and having the appropriate expectations (don't use the F lav, if you can hold it, just because the line in the back is long and you happen to be closer to the F lav. Judgement and Humanity need to be considered into this. That is it.
*
I understand that the contract of carriage simply gets you from point a to point b and does not buy the use of a specific lav.  However, under this very same statement, why coach people should use the F lav then...I know...first world problems which are really inconsequential.


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## Talent312 (Jun 30, 2017)

Helios said:


> Does anyone know how variable toll lanes (HOT) work?  Say I-95 between Washington and Quantico.  Many other places use them.



IDK, but I suspect this post should be in a different thread.

.


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## Helios (Jun 30, 2017)

Talent312 said:


> IDK, but I suspect this post should be in a different thread.
> 
> .


The post explained how so I could make a point.


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## Patri (Jul 1, 2017)

No policy is going to change as a result of this thread.


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## Helios (Jul 1, 2017)

Patri said:


> No policy is going to change as a result of this thread.


Of course, and the problem is that unless there is clear written policy everyone can do whatever they want.


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## dioxide45 (Jul 1, 2017)

Helios said:


> Does anyone know how variable toll lanes (HOT) work? Say I-95 between Washington and Quantico. Many other places use them.


There are many other situations where people pay for a privilege. Global Entry and TSA PreCheck are a couple others. Pay a fee and you get expedited clearance at checkpoints and immigration. Certain classes on cruise ships also have privileged access to certain areas of the ship (think Celebrity Aqua Class). The difference there is that the benefit is clearly defined. With FC and the lavatories, there is no clearly defined benefit that being in first gets you special access to a first class only lavatory. So far I have found no law or written rule related to what lavatory one must use on an aircraft. So there is no rule as you seem to think there is. More times than not, I suspect people get upset about coach passengers using the front lavatory even when the FC passenger doesn't even need to use or never uses the lavatory on that flight anyway. So, in reality, it never impacted that person in the first place.

Nothing will really change in your favor unless the airlines find that coach passengers using the FC lavatory starts to cut in to their bottom line. For the most part it also is simply not feasible, at least on single isle aircraft, and otherwise, most people really don't care who is using what lavatory.


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## rapmarks (Jul 1, 2017)

I now realize what a grave mistake I made when the flight attendant directed me to the first class lavatory.  But I also want some of those thank you notes as I am paying taxes to educate others children too, and mine have been out of school for over twenty years. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## dioxide45 (Jul 1, 2017)

I guess another question is, what bathroom can Economy Plus passengers use? They too are paying a higher price for their ticket, can they use the front lavatory since they are closer to it, or do they also have to use the lavatory in coach? Perhaps they should have their own too?


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## MichaelColey (Jul 1, 2017)

Helios said:


> Of course, and the problem is that unless there is clear written policy everyone can do whatever they want.


Even that is not enough.  It needs a clear written policy AND enforcement.  There are neither with this.

Personally, I've never seen it as a problem whether I'm in First or in Coach.


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## Tia (Jul 1, 2017)

_Bigger problems_ in flying now days than this one imho.  I hate using any bathroom on any plane, so it's an emergency for me if I must. Airline changes our flight and give us 30 minutes to change planes in Miami, well there might be a need.

Waiting in line to board a gal looked at me and asked as we walked by 'do you have a first class ticket?' as this was what was boarding.......,.... well my answer was YES  and I walked on.   _What was her problem that she felt she should ask that??_


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## b2bailey (Jul 1, 2017)

Just noticed the word "expect" to use. I think that's the rub. When I sit down in my coach seat, I clearly do not "expect" to use F C lav. Of the. 200+ passengers sitting with me -- I'm guessing very few board with that expectation.

However, extenuating circumstances might require it, and this is when I hope I don't get the dirty looks.


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## Passepartout (Jul 1, 2017)

Tia said:


> Waiting in line to board a gal looked at me and asked as we walked by 'do you have a first class ticket?' as this was what was boarding.......,.... well my answer was YES  and I walked on.



I frequently wonder as I trudge through First back to my lowly steerage seat, how many- if ANY of those folks sitting upfront are actually PAYING for the privilege of occupying that space. I suspect that most are being rewarded for business they or their employer give the airline.

I silently tell myself that we are all getting to our destinations within moments of one another, and if I want more space and a drink or two, I can spend 4X what I'm paying in the back.

Jim


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## Tia (Jul 1, 2017)

I'd guess plenty of the First class tickets are reward of some kind, ours was not but wish it was .



Passepartout said:


> I frequently wonder as I trudge through First back to my lowly steerage seat, how many- if ANY of those folks sitting upfront are actually PAYING for the privilege of occupying that space. I suspect that most are being rewarded for business they or their employer give the airline.
> 
> I silently tell myself that we are all getting to our destinations within moments of one another, and if I want more space and a drink or two, I can spend 4X what I'm paying in the back.
> 
> Jim


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## geist1223 (Jul 1, 2017)

We primarily fly Coach (Cattle Car Environment) but occasionally fly FC. When flying FC our hope is that the Coach Folks stay in Coach. On size of bathrooms I do not know if it is true for all Airbus Planes but on the new ones (well now about 4 years old) flown by Fiji there is a large (family bathroom but open to all) bathroom about half way through Coach on the Port Side of the AC.


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## dioxide45 (Jul 1, 2017)

Passepartout said:


> I frequently wonder as I trudge through First back to my lowly steerage seat, how many- if ANY of those folks sitting upfront are actually PAYING for the privilege of occupying that space. I suspect that most are being rewarded for business they or their employer give the airline.
> 
> I silently tell myself that we are all getting to our destinations within moments of one another, and if I want more space and a drink or two, I can spend 4X what I'm paying in the back.
> 
> Jim


It seems that perhaps about half of the fliers in FC actually paid FC prices. This is a few years old, but it seems that the airlines were targeting having about 50% of the FC seats sold as such and the other half would be upgrades. It looks like perhaps the percentages of paid FC may be higher on long haul international and you would have more upgrades on shorter domestic.


In 2011, 31% of domestic first class passengers have paid to be there
In 2012, 36% of domestic first class passengers have paid to be there
In 2013, 40% of domestic first class passengers have paid to be there
This year it’s about 45%

_Source: http://viewfromthewing.boardingarea...ass-seats-actually-sold-versus-left-upgrades/_


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## Talent312 (Jul 3, 2017)

I've flown FC, but mostly coach.
If I'd paid or earned a FC seat, I'd expect the unwashed masses (a/k/a cattle) to remain in their section, except in extenuating circumstances. And as a member of the cattle-class, I'd expect to do so, as well.
.


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## x3 skier (Jul 3, 2017)

Passepartout said:


> I frequently wonder as I trudge through First back to my lowly steerage seat, how many- if ANY of those folks sitting upfront are actually PAYING for the privilege of occupying that space. I suspect that most are being rewarded for business they or their employer give the airline.
> 
> I silently tell myself that we are all getting to our destinations within moments of one another, and if I want more space and a drink or two, I can spend 4X what I'm paying in the back.
> 
> Jim



I've never paid for 1st/Business going out to the country, using FF Miles for all those trips. OTOH, I frequently but not always, fly FC Domestically and always pay the extra price, which is worth it to me, especially on flights longer than 1:30.

Cheers


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## presley (Jul 3, 2017)

I have never flown FC and have never used their restroom. I would use it if the cart was in my way to get my own restroom, but I also time my restroom breaks and drinks carefully before flying. I do everything I can avoid using the restroom at all, but will usually it on a 5 hour or longer flight.


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## davidvel (Jul 3, 2017)

Bathrooms are a right, not just for the privileged.  

Additionally, how does an airline or the flight crew know if a passenger does or does not need to get to a close,  open (FC) bathroom due to a medical issue (eg. pregnancy)? Refusal to  allow a coach passenger to  use a FC bathroom certainly could be an ADA violation.  

Can you imagine  the viral video of the crew telling the pregnant lady to get back to her own lowly section ("stay in your own lane"), with the long line at the coach bathroom and none in FC, only to see her urinating herself and crying in the aisle?  The airline would wish they were United. 

Just another reason there is no written rule granting this "benefit" to FC fliers.


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## VacationForever (Jul 3, 2017)

This thread opens a can of worms.  Similar threads are found on cruisecritic.com about suite class passengers getting exclusive use of certain restaurants or lounges, and why shouldn't the perks for having larger cabins be sufficient.  

The bottom line is first class flying passengers and suite class cruising passengers pay alot more for their class which includes whatever areas carved out for them.  The business can set whatever rules she wants to have these passengers have amenities and areas that only these classes of passengers have access to.  Bottom line is: get over it!  We all get what we paid for.


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## jehb2 (Jul 3, 2017)

A couple of times in Europe our kids had to go to the restroom.  It was one of those running down the street clutching your kid's hand and desperately looking for a public restroom. I had to resort to asking at a restaurant.  In each case the waiters were more than gracious.  I mean they were really nice.  Too bad it can't always be that way.


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## Luanne (Jul 3, 2017)

jehb2 said:


> A couple of times in Europe our kids had to go to the restroom.  It was one of those running down the street clutching your kid's hand and desperately looking for a public restroom. I had to resort To ask in at a restaurant.  In each case the he waiters were more than gracious.  I mean they were really nice.  Too bad it can't always be that way.


The best is when you are pregnant.  No one will deny a restroom to a pregnant woman.


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## Helios (Jul 3, 2017)

davidvel said:


> Bathrooms are a right, not just for the privileged.
> 
> Additionally, how does an airline or the flight crew know if a passenger does or does not need to get to a close,  open (FC) bathroom due to a medical issue (eg. pregnancy)? Refusal to  allow a coach passenger to  use a FC bathroom certainly could be an ADA violation.
> 
> ...


Sure.  However, playing advocatus diaboli, shouldn't the nice fellow paxs in coach also let the pregnant lady use the bathroom if there is a need.  You make it sound like the F paxs need to accommodate the situation and the coach paxs are exempt from helping.

Don't get me wrong, I think no one should contest that in this situation she should be allowed.  There aren't many other situations like the grandmother and the baby...which no one should oppose to.


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## Helios (Jul 3, 2017)

VacationForever said:


> This thread opens a can of worms.  Similar threads are found on cruisecritic.com about suite class passengers getting exclusive use of certain restaurants or lounges, and why shouldn't the perks for having larger cabins be sufficient.
> 
> The bottom line is first class flying passengers and suite class cruising passengers pay alot more for their class which includes whatever areas carved out for them.  The business can set whatever rules she wants to have these passengers have amenities and areas that only these classes of passengers have access to.  *Bottom line is: get over it!  We all get what we paid for.*


very well said.


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## Helios (Jul 3, 2017)

Luanne said:


> The best is when you are pregnant.  No one will deny a restroom to a pregnant woman.


I think there are more examples, not just the pregnant woman.


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## Helios (Jul 3, 2017)

jehb2 said:


> A couple of times in Europe our kids had to go to the restroom.  It was one of those running down the street clutching your kid's hand and desperately looking for a public restroom. I had to resort To ask in at a restaurant.  In each case the he waiters were more than gracious.  I mean they were really nice.  Too bad it can't always be that way.


I very much dislike it when you have to pay to use the bathroom in Europe.  I assume they want to make sure it will be clean and with appropriate supplies.  As a dad with a kid who needs to use the bathroom, this experience can be bad news.


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## Luanne (Jul 3, 2017)

Helios said:


> I think there are more examples, not just the pregnant woman.


Oh I'm sure there are.  I just used that one since it was one I was personally familiar with.  Not trying to drag this thread on.


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## dioxide45 (Jul 3, 2017)

Talent312 said:


> I've flown FC, but mostly coach.
> If I'd paid or earned a FC seat, I'd expect the unwashed masses (a/k/a cattle) to remain in their section, except in extenuating circumstances. And a member of the cattle-class, I'd expect to do so, as well.
> .


I am quite shocked that such an insulting post would actually get two likes


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## Helios (Jul 3, 2017)

dioxide45 said:


> I am quite shocked that such an insulting post would actually get two likes


Why?  The poster follows rules and has appropriate expectations.  Perhaps you are insulted for some of the word choices.  Those are details to me.  I think it boils down to following rules, unwritten but still rules, and expectations.  I travel frequently, like I mentioned before about 20% of the time in Coach, and I don't find it insulting at all.


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## dioxide45 (Jul 3, 2017)

--Deleted--

I will take the high road.


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## Helios (Jul 3, 2017)

Would you say I am elitist if I pay coach and don't go upfront even if I need to go and is more convenient than going to the back?


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## Elan (Jul 3, 2017)

I find the whole thread hilariously inane.   

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk


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## dioxide45 (Jul 3, 2017)

Helios said:


> Would you say I am elitist if I pay coach and don't go upfront even if I need to go and is more convenient than going to the back?


When terms such as "unwashed masses" are "details" to you, it seems to prove my now deleted statement? No? Guess I will say what I wanted to say. Somehow since you are paying more means you are better than? Your craps stinks too... pun intended


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## Helios (Jul 3, 2017)

Elan said:


> I find the whole thread hilariously inane.
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk


Me too, after all there needs to be two sides for this to happen.


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## Helios (Jul 3, 2017)

dioxide45 said:


> When terms such as "unwashed masses" are "details" to you, it seems to prove my now deleted statement? No? Guess I will say what I wanted to say. Somehow since you are paying more means you are better than? Your craps stinks too... pun intended


Not at all, I am not better than you or anybody here.  Never said that.  I called/associated myself with the unwashed masses when I travel in the back.  I don't always travel in the front of the bus, but when I do, I have some expectations.


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## Helios (Jul 3, 2017)

And, I said details because my point when I started the thread was following rules and having the right expectations.  Somehow it migrated into me being elitist and being stinky.  I thank for that.    I would hate not being able to have fun at myself when people use me as their excuse..,


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## davidvel (Jul 3, 2017)

Elan said:


> I find the whole thread hilariously inane.
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk


And sad proof of what we see in our uncouth society in general these days.


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## VacationForever (Jul 4, 2017)

In cruising world, we called those (including ourselves) who travel in non-suite class as steerage.  It is a widely accepted joke which is not meant to be offensive.  It is important that we can laugh at ourselves.


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## klpca (Jul 4, 2017)

Well, this has been an enlightening thread. I wonder what the flight attendants on the airlines would say, lol. My friend who has been a flight attendant for a major US legacy airline for 30+ years refuses to work in FC.  I guess there are too many bathroom issues.


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## davidvel (Jul 4, 2017)

klpca said:


> Well, this has been an enlightening thread. I wonder what the flight attendants on the airlines would say, lol. *My friend who had been a flight attendant for a major US legacy airline for 30+ years refuses to work in FC*.  I guess there are too many bathroom issues.


That says more than all the 89 posts in this thread ever could.


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## Helios (Jul 4, 2017)

VacationForever said:


> In cruising world, we called those (including ourselves) who travel in non-suite class as steerage.  It is a widely accepted joke which is not meant to be offensive.  It is important that we can laugh at ourselves.


Haven't heard that as an actual joke.  Just in the movie Titanic, but that was not a joke.


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## dioxide45 (Jul 4, 2017)

Helios said:


> And, I said details because my point when I started the thread was following rules and having the right expectations.


And it has been stated again and again that there is no rule and really should be no expectation. If you Google the subject, there are plenty of results related to this. It seems we aren't just debating it here on TUG.

http://www.theblaze.com/news/2014/0...ppy-what-happened-next-resulted-in-a-lawsuit/

http://www.foxnews.com/story/2007/0...irst-class-bathrooms-to-coach-passengers.html


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## Helios (Jul 4, 2017)

dioxide45 said:


> And it has been stated again and again that there is no rule and really should be no expectation. If you Google the subject, there are plenty of results related to this. It seems we aren't just debating it here on TUG.
> 
> http://www.theblaze.com/news/2014/0...ppy-what-happened-next-resulted-in-a-lawsuit/
> 
> http://www.foxnews.com/story/2007/0...irst-class-bathrooms-to-coach-passengers.html


Sure, I mentioned unwritten rules that are still rules a couple of posts up.

Let me ask you this, did your parents (or anyone else for that matter) indicated to you not to jump off a cliff via a written rule?  I would guess not.  Did you know not to do it anyway?  The answer to that, my friend, is yes.

Let's just agree to disagree on this one.

Disagreement situations make it interesting in my opinion.  Otherwise life would be too boring.

Note that this disagreement has nothing to do with me being elitist, or the bathroom smelling or not after I use it which are factors/names you introduce and used against me and other people (elitist qualifier) who agreed with me.

Peace.  I am done disagreeing with you.  I'll like posts I see fit and please realize that is my opinion, absolutely nothing to do with you.


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## dioxide45 (Jul 4, 2017)

Helios said:


> Peace. I am done disagreeing with you.


Something we can now agree on


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## Helios (Jul 4, 2017)

dioxide45 said:


> Something we can now agree on


This, after all, is a first world problem.  Now, back to the regular programming...


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## VacationForever (Jul 4, 2017)

Helios said:


> Haven't heard that as an actual joke.  Just in the movie Titanic, but that was not a joke.





Helios said:


> Haven't heard that as an actual joke.  Just in the movie Titanic, but that was not a joke.


As you know, these days anyone who gets on a cruise gets a luxurious experience.  We spent years timesharing and we never realized cruising is so expensive compared to timesharing, until we started cruising.


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## Talent312 (Jul 4, 2017)

dioxide45 said:


> I am quite shocked that such an insultin g post would actually get two likes



My use of satire is occasionally lost on folks who take my words literally. 
I'll try to keep my dry wit in check for more sensitive ears.

.


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## Neesie (Jul 5, 2017)

I really don't care.  I take care of my needs before boarding the plane.  I also stow my carry on under the seat in front of me so I don't disturb my fellow passengers by getting up, midflight, to rummage through it.  

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J320A using Tapatalk


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## taterhed (Jul 5, 2017)

eh...why not join the fray?

IMHO

Kids, adults, young, old, pregnant, sick or drunk:  If your choice is a) soil yourself and/or the airplane and/or your seatmate or b) use the closest restroom (seatbelt sign or no), then the answer should be very apparent to everyone who can read this: B: use the restroom  (and make better plans/decisions next time if possible).
Walking forward, out of your cabin, against FA instructions, past the curtains, to use the restroom by the cockpit door..... is not just 'incorrect' 'against crewmember guidance' and a bit 'self centered,' but also a security concern.  If you have no idea what I'm talking about, then I'm really not going to try and explain.  This goes 5x times for international flights.  Running forward to the restroom?  Think about it first.
If one or more of the aircraft lavatories are officially 'out of service,' and the aircraft is anywhere-near-full (most are), I think you have some consideration for using an available restroom vs standing in line for the insufficient restrooms in your class of service.  IMHO
If you're in a 737-900 that has no forward coach-class restrooms, you're in row 11 (front of coach) and they've just started a meal/drink service and the isle to the Lav in your cabin is blocked, I think you could certainly let the FA know that you're going to use the first class restroom, because you can't wait, and give them the opportunity to agree or move the carts etc...before you saunter forward into the first class service.   Of course, if you've ever flown before, you know how this will all play-out, so maybe better planning is in order next time.  IMHO.  Don't most people take kids to the loo before getting in the car?  plane?  etc....?  Why not adults?
I don't know, I think it's courtesy.  When you're at a resort (not as an owner) do you just wander into the 'owners only' areas and make yourself at home?  When you go to restaurants, do you take all the condiments, napkins and other items and take them home with you?  They are free, right?  Even if you don't buy anything?  Do you sit in handicap seats on the bus/subway because you have a right to them too?  Do you take your 'therapy dog' to NO PETS resorts even though you are aware of the distinction between 'therapy' and 'service' ?  Do you put your towel on a lounge chair at 0430am so you can use the chair at 10:00am after you have a nice breakfast, walk and coffee?

Tough questions.  I occasionally fail on a few of these type questions myself.  I'm not judging, just say'n. 
Most airlines instruct you to use the facilities in your own cabin, remain seated when the seatbelt is on, leave all luggage and belongings behind when evacuating the aircraft and follow crewmember instructions at all time.
But, as we are all painfully aware, few people follow instructions.
What can you do?

Don't mean to offend.  Just my opinions.


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## b2bailey (Jul 8, 2017)

Couldn't help but think of this post while flying today. Woman a few rows ahead of me stands up with intention of using restroom. She glances behind her and notices service cart is blocking her way. What to do?

She walked towards the back of the plane and asks FA for permission to use F C lab. FA says yes.

Out of curiosity -- are there FC passengers who feel this passenger would be wrong to use FC lab?


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## Talent312 (Jul 8, 2017)

dioxide45 said:


> I will take the high road.



O ye'll tak' the high road, and I'll tak' the low road,
And I'll be in Scotland a'fore ye,
-- from "Bonnie Banks of Loch Lomond," pub.1841

.


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## taterhed (Jul 8, 2017)

b2bailey said:


> Couldn't help but think of this post while flying today. Woman a few rows ahead of me stands up with intention of using restroom. She glances behind her and notices service cart is blocking her way. What to do?
> 
> She walked towards the back of the plane and asks FA for permission to use F C lab. FA says yes.
> 
> Out of curiosity -- are there FC passengers who feel this passenger would be wrong to use FC lab?


That's the right thing to do.
If it happens a few times, no big deal.  If it becomes a trend....then yes.  I do start to mind.  Why?  Because there is a cost (of some kind) and a reason why the front seats (and Loo) are better than the back.  NOT the people, just the facilities.  :>  
Plus,  there is a distinct difference in the condition of the FC Lavs and the Coach Lavs at the end of the flight.
Trust me, you don't EVER want to know the extremes.


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## taterhed (Jul 8, 2017)

Talent312 said:


> O ye'll tak' the high road, and I'll tak' the low road,
> And I'll be in Scotland a'fore ye,
> -- from "Bonnie Banks of Loch Lomond," pub.1841
> 
> .



NO, actually, the first class PAX will arrive first.....by a few feet.


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## rapmarks (Jul 10, 2017)

Saw this article in the fort Myers News Press and thought of this thread.  A 23 year old flying first class on a flight to China tried to open the door and got it half way turned.  He was flying on a free pass as a family member of an employee.  Good thing he was flying first class, as another first class passenger grabbed a handy bottle of dessert wine and hit him over the head.  It hardly slowed him down but the passengers helped subdue him.  Thank heaven a coach passenger wasn't trying to use the lav at the same time


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## davidvel (Jul 11, 2017)

rapmarks said:


> Saw this article in the fort Myers News Press and thought of this thread.  A 23 year old flying first class on a flight to China tried to open the door and got it half way turned.  He was flying on a free pass as a family member of an employee.  Good thing he was flying first class, as another first class passenger grabbed a handy bottle of dessert wine and hit him over the head.  It hardly slowed him down but the passengers helped subdue him.  Thank heaven a coach passenger wasn't trying to use the lav at the same time
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


The flight attendant hit him with the wine bottle. They said he seemed to be high on something as it took a lot to get him under control.


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## Talent312 (Jul 11, 2017)

davidvel said:


> The flight attendant hit him with the wine bottle. They said he seemed to be high on something as it took a lot to get him under control.



Did they drink the wine, or is it in evidence? - Inquiring minds.


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## clifffaith (Jul 11, 2017)

Is it physically possible to open the airplane door while in the air? There isn't air pressure outside that would prevent that at normal flying altitudes? (Not that it wouldn't freak me out to see someone try!)


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## x3 skier (Jul 11, 2017)

Because of the differential in pressure and design of the doors, it's basically impossible to open a door at altitude.

Cheers


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## rapmarks (Jul 11, 2017)

That is what article said, but said he had turned it half way.  One bottle was broken, the other intact.  


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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