# Destination Club important factors



## Steamboat Bill (Sep 2, 2007)

I think anyone considering joining a destination club should give serious consideration to these factors:

1. Number of members
2. Number of properties
3. Are they a member of the DCA and passed a net asset test
4. How do they classify holiday weeks
5. Can you book weeks or nights only
6. How far in advance can you book
7. Is there any equity appreciation
8. How difficult is it to get a prime week 
9. Are you interested in the property locations
10. How much does the club cost in terms of "cost per night"

Here is some data I found on Helium Report. I think this needs to be updated as the data is about 4 months old.

Exclusive Resorts = 2,500 members and 300 homes

Ultimate Resort = 775 members and 105 homes

Quintess = 375 members and 60 homes

High Country Club = 240 members and 28 homes

Private Escapes Premiere = 182 members and 28 homes
Private Escapes Platinum = 121 members and 18 homes

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Anyone else care to add to this list?


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## NeilGoBlue (Sep 2, 2007)

I would add the price of the homes.. not for the sake of price... but to me there is a big difference between an 850K HCC home and a 2MM Bellehavens home and a 20MM Yellowstone property.  The locations are different and the sizes are different.

I see a lot of discussion on the financial aspects of a club, but a lot less discussion on the quality of the home, the services included, the location and the FF&E.

(BTW, thanks for adding the 'equity' part to your list)


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## vineyarder (Sep 2, 2007)

> Private Escapes Premiere = 182 members and 28 homes
> Private Escapes Platinum = 121 members and 18 homes



I don't have updated membership numbers, but Premiere is now at 30 homes with 2 more under contract.  Platinum is now at 21 homes with 3 more under contract (plus the yacht), and Pinnacle is at 6 homes with 1 more under contract, so the total for PE is now 57 homes, with 6 more under contract, plus the 80' motoryacht.


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## Kagehitokiri (Sep 2, 2007)

vineyarder, which destinations for premiere and platinum have changed in status from what is listed on PE's website?


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## NeilGoBlue (Sep 2, 2007)

Bellehavens has over 100 members and  14 locations plus another 15 international destinations. They also have about 10 destinations under 'acquisition' in various stages...


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## vineyarder (Sep 2, 2007)

> vineyarder, which destinations for premiere and platinum have changed in status from what is listed on PE's website?



Premiere - Reuinion (Orlando) is now active, and contracts signed on 2 cottages at the Ritz-Carlton / Abaco Club at Winding Bay (under construction, to be finished in a few months).

Platinum - 2nd NYC property is now open (2 bedroom with incredible views at the Link) and Breckenridge is now active, with contracts at Cap Cana, Reunion/Orlando, and another home at the Ritz-Carlton / Abaco Club at Winding Bay.

For some strange reason, PE doesn't do a great job of keeping their public website updated... but otherwise their customer service is excellent/outstanding!


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## Kagehitokiri (Sep 2, 2007)

gotcha, thanks.

theyre certainly going ER style @ Abaco 



> PE doesn't do a great job of keeping their public website updated..


 seems true of every club. definitely kinda odd, but not that important for members.


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## vineyarder (Sep 2, 2007)

> theyre certainly going ER style @ Abaco



Funny you should say that; ER has 7 homes (all in a row) at the Abaco Club at Winding Bay...(but maybe you knew that).  Anyway, when we were there, we met 4 ER members, all of whom loved the resort, but all of whom were frustrated over availability; 3 of the 4 had waited 2 years to get a reservation at Abaco Club.  PE has responded to members booking patterns/desires, and is buying up more properties to meet need; it really is a fabulous resort!  Of course, the next 3 properties won't have the incredible views ofthe first 2 properties, but will make up for that in space and furnishings (the first property went from a purchase price of about $1.1M to $2.6M in 2 years, so that is no longer in the budget for either Premiere or Platinum)...


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## Kagehitokiri (Sep 2, 2007)

> 3 of the 4 had waited 2 years to get a reservation at Abaco Club.


 they must have had tighter schedules. it was clearly in demand, but i saw a fair amount of avail on ER's online search thing. dont remember how it compared to other very in demand places. 

BTW are any of the abaco villas (not necessarily DC owned, just in general) beachfront? oceanfront seems reasonably common, but not beachfront?


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## vineyarder (Sep 2, 2007)

> BTW are any of the abaco villas (not necessarily DC owned, just in general) beachfront? oceanfront seems reasonably common, but not beachfront?



Yes, I believe that all of the ER homes are beachfront, as is the PE Pinnacle home.  The PE Platinum, as well as the Lusso and Ultimate homes are oceanfront, but over cliffs/reefs, not the beach.  When I went I had a choice of the Pinnacle beachfront or the Platinum oceanfront, and I chose the oceanfront, as we could fish directly off the deck that was cantilevered over the ocean; each morning my early-rising 11 y/o daughter went fishing, and she caught a large grouper as well as over a dozen snapper (which the chef prepared for us each day!).  In addition, the views were more pristine, since you didn't look over people on the beach, just the ocean and the islands in the bay...  But I also understand that some people prefer to ealk directlyout on the beach each morning.


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## Tedpilot (Sep 2, 2007)

Bill - I'd like to expand on item #9 you mentioned in the original post.  Interest in locations...  A large factor for me picking HCC was what it really takes to physically get to the properties - fly, drive, and time all equal added cost in one form or another...I made a pretty big spreadsheet last year that I use as a reference in calculating my trip costs.  Most all of them I could 1 or 2-hop via the airlines, many I can drive to in one or two days.  Depending on various market costs (gas, tickets, rental cars, people and toys brought along, etc...) it is much less expensive to utilize some properties than others...and I was surprised at the results. 

Next, I would add to your list would be the intangibles that the company offers.  With HCC that happens to be service...they've pulled a few rabbits out of their hats for me.  I know some clubs throw in cars, food and the likes so that could be in this category as well.  Always nice are the small items at the locales...wireless HSI, games, free calls and so on.  These little things just make the whole experience more enjoyable.


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## Kagehitokiri (Sep 2, 2007)

great info, thanks vineyarder 

wonder why Lusso didnt go with beachfront.


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## LTTravel (Sep 2, 2007)

I think that there are fewer beachfront properties available. If you know the layout of Abaco, There are homes on the cliff, either on the beach side or the ocean side. They are a short golf cart ride away from the clubhouse/restaurant/spa. The beachfront homes are down at sea level and a longer ride to the clubhouse. 
I am not crazy about Abaco myself and don't understand all the excitement. Very isolated, only one restaurant, lousy food, fair-poor service and no night life. There is NOTHING, near it. It is good for a quiet, few day vacation, but others rave about it. You need to make your own evaluation. I think that the ER members who love it love it because of the shallow water at the beach which makes it safe for young children. The resort would be much better if the Ritz built a small hotel on the site so that they could open up a few more restaurants and activities. Other people would say they would want to keep it quiet. Just my opinion.


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## vineyarder (Sep 3, 2007)

> wonder why Lusso didnt go with beachfront.



Probably simply couldn't afford it within their budget; the remaining oceanfront lots are going for $3M - $4M just for the lot!  PE and ER bought in before it became a Ritz Carlton managed property, and since then the prices have skyrocketed.



> am not crazy about Abaco myself and don't understand all the excitement. Very isolated, only one restaurant, lousy food, fair-poor service and no night life. There is NOTHING, near it. It is good for a quiet, few day vacation, but others rave about it. You need to make your own evaluation. I think that the ER members who love it love it because of the shallow water at the beach which makes it safe for young children.



Very interesting... just goes to show much individual preferences vary, and why the 'destination' part of DC's is the hardest to evaluate objectively.  You are correct that there is no nightlife, but for us that's a plus, as it is quiet at night as we sit on the deck looking over the water...  There is a new chef at the restuarant (came from another Ritz, but I don't remember which), and we thought that it/he was excellent (if a bit pricey), but we did hear that it had been mediocre prior to his arrival.  Plus we like to cook, so when we have a kitchen, we prefer to eat in, especially when the decks have those views!  We loved the slow-paced, relaxed atmosphere with tons of activities for the whole family (beach, kayaks, sailing, croquet, tennis, horseback rides, billiards, ping-pong, golf, spa, cooking classes, fishing, sunset cruises, etc.).  But there isn't alot outside the resort, so I can see your view...  And I hope others feel that way as well, so there is more availability for me!  



> The resort would be much better if the Ritz built a small hotel on the site so that they could open up a few more restaurants and activities. Other people would say they would want to keep it quiet. Just my opinion



Looks like the Ritz management is taking a middle road; they decided not to build a hotel, but to build Ritz-Carlton Club fractional ownership homes, along with a huge new pool area, additional clubhouse, teen lounge, and several more restaurants.  The downside is that there will be a fair amount of construction going on for the next few years...


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## Kagehitokiri (Sep 3, 2007)

lusso's new one is 4BR, old one is 3BR... although the 4BR does seem small from floorplan..

their stated property value is higher than pinnacle, thought they got into before RC too, maybe not.

pinnacle's 4BR is new too isnt it? it seems to be the only DC property with a pool.

odd.


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## LTTravel (Sep 3, 2007)

Kagehitokiri said:


> lusso's new one is 4BR, old one is 3BR... although the 4BR does seem small from floorplan..
> 
> their stated property value is higher than pinnacle, thought they got into before RC too, maybe not.
> 
> ...



Lusso's 3 bedroom is a lease, they are building a second 4 bedroom and will release the leased property when complete. The 4 bedroom is a standard cliffside home, most have the same layout, Lusso's has a hot tub on the deck. All the ER properties have a very small plunge pool.


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## LTTravel (Sep 3, 2007)

vineyarder said:


> Looks like the Ritz management is taking a middle road; they decided not to build a hotel, but to build Ritz-Carlton Club fractional ownership homes, along with a huge new pool area, additional clubhouse, teen lounge, and several more restaurants.  The downside is that there will be a fair amount of construction going on for the next few years...



I hope the homeowners can use the new facilities. If you don't mind, where did you get this info? Is it online anywhere?


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## vineyarder (Sep 3, 2007)

> I hope the homeowners can use the new facilities. If you don't mind, where did you get this info? Is it online anywhere?



The homeowners & DC members will be able to use all the new facilities except for one of the 2 new clubhouses (which will be just for RC owners)...  I got this info from the RC 'membership directors' while were at the property; they had the drawings/plans, etc. on display in their office.


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## LTTravel (Sep 3, 2007)

vineyarder said:


> I got this info from the RC 'membership directors' while were at the property; they had the drawings/plans, etc. on display in their office.




I hope that this goes through. Ritz is currently building on Rose Island in Nassau, due to be complete in 2009. I don't know if they will start a new project in the Bahamas so quickly.


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## vineyarder (Sep 4, 2007)

LTTravel said:


> I hope that this goes through. Ritz is currently building on Rose Island in Nassau, due to be complete in 2009. I don't know if they will start a new project in the Bahamas so quickly.



I _believe_ that they were already taking reservations, and were quoting an opening in early 2009, so it seemed pretty certain...


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## GOLFNBEACH (Sep 4, 2007)

Steamboat Bill said:


> Anyone else care to add to this list?



I think the list is pretty comprehensive.  Cost and flexibility are the 2 BIG issues for me.  Unfortunately the more flexibility the more cost.

Using the country club golf analogy - I know several friends who belong to very nice and exclusive clubs.  They paid a significant membership fee and have high annual dues (plus other charges).  However, if they want a 9:00am tee time on Saturday morning it is usually easy to book.  At times it seems they have the course all to themselves.

I also know other friends who belong to less exclusive clubs.  I have played at both and the courses are equally nice (but w/o centain amenities) and well maintained.  However my friends at the less exclusive clubs need to work much harder to get their desired tee times.  The course also tends to get more crowded and it typically takes 30-60 minutes longer to play a typical round.  Sometimes the club is shut down to members because they are hosting an event.

BUT...if you were to calculate their average cost per round it would seem reasonable at the less exclusive club and outrageously high at the exclusive club.  I looked at both and decided I can't justify the price of the exclusive club.  I also find the golf at the nicer high-end daily fee golf courses usually offer a better overall expreience than the less exclusive clubs.

Finally back to DC clubs...

I wonder if HCC and the PE premier trial (like the less exclusive golf clubs) will result in less flexibility.  I'm guessing you really do get what you pay for. Unfortunately I am not in a postition or willing to pay the top dollar for the more exclusive destination clubs.

I still have a lot of due diligence to do.


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## Steamboat Bill (Sep 4, 2007)

GOLFNBEACH said:


> I wonder if HCC and the PE premier trial (like the less exclusive golf clubs) will result in less flexibility.  I'm guessing you really do get what you pay for. Unfortunately I am not in a postition or willing to pay the top dollar for the more exclusive destination clubs.
> 
> I still have a lot of due diligence to do.



I had the same delima....I had a hard time justifying spending $1000-$1500 per night to join MOST DCs...thus when I saw HCC at $350 per night, I figured that was the club for me.

When I compare HCC vs timeshares or paying cash for a rental, I am veryhappy I joined HCC.

HCC is NOT perfect for everyone, it is just right for me and my family.

If money was no object, then I would strongly consider another higher priced DC as you do get what you pay for, it just depends on your spending tolerance.


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## travelguy (Sep 5, 2007)

GOLFNBEACH said:


> I think the list is pretty comprehensive.  Cost and flexibility are the 2 BIG issues for me.  Unfortunately the more flexibility the more cost.
> 
> Using the country club golf analogy - I know several friends who belong to very nice and exclusive clubs.  They paid a significant membership fee and have high annual dues (plus other charges).  However, if they want a 9:00am tee time on Saturday morning it is usually easy to book.  At times it seems they have the course all to themselves.
> 
> ...



Your analogy of Country Clubs is not correct in the case of High Country Club.  My experience, and I believe most of the other HCC members on this board, has been that availability of HCC properties has been good to excellent.  So the tee times are available even though the cost is NOT outrageous!


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## travelguy (Sep 5, 2007)

Steamboat Bill said:


> I had the same delima....I had a hard time justifying spending $1000-$1500 per night to join MOST DCs...thus when I saw HCC at $350 per night, I figured that was the club for me.
> 
> When I compare HCC vs timeshares or paying cash for a rental, I am veryhappy I joined HCC.
> 
> ...



As usual, I totally agree with Bill's analysis.


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## Kagehitokiri (Sep 13, 2007)

my bad!

steamboat bill, please merge my new thread here >
http://tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=54922
into this one.

thanks!

this thread would definitely be a great sticky.

also - question - i typed up a list of HCC's properties (destination, destination type, property type, #BRs) - what thread would be best for me to add it to? or should i make a new one?


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## Steamboat Bill (Sep 14, 2007)

Kagehitokiri said:


> also - question - i typed up a list of HCC's properties (destination, destination type, property type, #BRs) - what thread would be best for me to add it to? or should i make a new one?



Make a new thread.


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