# Hyatt Wild Oak Ranch!!!  Any Tuggers here?



## dagger1 (Jun 18, 2017)

We just arrived for a week at HWOR and will be at the 5 PM Wine Tasting if any Tuggers are here!


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## dagger1 (Jun 18, 2017)

I guess not...  And $4 Margaritas!!!


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## itap39 (Jun 18, 2017)

we're headed there next weekend!  $4marg's sound great! are the pool side bars open at the pool and lazy river?


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## bluemax (Jun 18, 2017)

dagger1 said:


> I guess not...  And $4 Margaritas!!!


Here today gone tomorrow- missed the wine tasting.  Don't like the new no Yeti, food, alcohol anywhere x room policy.

Enjoy


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## dagger1 (Jun 18, 2017)

I know, but $4 margaritas... Dang!!!!  Got roped into agreeing to an "owner update" Thursday...!


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## Cropman (Jun 18, 2017)

Great!!  First hand point program info!!


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## dagger1 (Jun 18, 2017)

Cropman said:


> Great!!  First hand point program info!!





Cropman said:


> Great!!  First hand point program info!!


Will ask them.  I am interested in hearing how my resale weeks at HWOR are going to become worthless when the PPP kicks into high gear.


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## Tucsonadventurer (Jun 19, 2017)

dagger1 said:


> Will ask them.  I am interested in hearing how my resale weeks at HWOR are going to become worthless when the PPP kicks into high gear.


Maybe we can all trade amoung ourselves. Not many Tuggers are going to jump


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## dagger1 (Jun 19, 2017)

Tucsonadventurer said:


> Maybe we can all trade amoung ourselves. Not many Tuggers are going to jump


Yes, great idea.  With seven grandkids under five, we will be using HWOR for at least 10-12 more years!!


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## WalnutBaron (Jun 21, 2017)

dagger1, just wanted to let you know I am anxiously awaiting your report on your owner's update tomorrow...hopefully informative but--if nothing else--it should be entertaining!


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## Sugarcubesea (Jun 21, 2017)

dagger1 said:


> We just arrived for a week at HWOR and will be at the 5 PM Wine Tasting if any Tuggers are here!


This resort is on my bucket list. I'm going to try and search for a week next year. Is anytime better than another to do an OGS here?


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## dagger1 (Jun 21, 2017)

Sugarcubesea said:


> This resort is on my bucket list. I'm going to try and search for a week next year. Is anytime better than another to do an OGS here?


I think summer is the high time, and Spring Break.  Mid September thru Mid October should be very doable, and it will be much cooler.  2 of our weeks are in June to avoid the July/August heat.  Lots to do in the Fall, all the San Antonio things plus lots of Hill Country Wine festivals, Wurstfest in New Braunfels, and tubing on the Guadalupe river.  The Nimitz War in the Pacific Museum in Fredericksburg is excellent, and then theirs always Luckenbach for great music!!


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## dagger1 (Jun 21, 2017)

WalnutBaron said:


> dagger1, just wanted to let you know I am anxiously awaiting your report on your owner's update tomorrow...hopefully informative but--if nothing else--it should be entertaining!


Will do my best!!!!


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## Sugarcubesea (Jun 21, 2017)

dagger1 said:


> I think summer is the high time, and Spring Break.  Mid September thru Mid October should be very doable, and it will be much cooler.  2 of our weeks are in June to avoid the July/August heat.  Lots to do in the Fall, all the San Antonio things plus lots of Hill Country Wine festivals, Wurstfest in New Braunfels, and tubing on the Guadalupe river.  The Nimitz War in the Pacific Museum in Fredericksburg is excellent, and then theirs always Luckenbach for great music!!


Thank you so much for the reply, I'm going to try and put my OGS for May, October, November....


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## dagger1 (Jun 21, 2017)

Sugarcubesea said:


> Thank you so much for the reply, I'm going to try and put my OGS for May, October, November....


I think end of  October would be great:  Wurstfest in New Braunfels!!


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## Sapper (Jun 22, 2017)

bluemax said:


> Don't like the new no Yeti, food, alcohol anywhere x room policy.



THIS!  I can understand a no glass policy (no glass by the pools, etc).  HOWEVER, to say a no food / drink policy so we can sell you over priced food and drinks at a location YOU OWN. I think this is not ok. I really like the property, however, believe management has overstepped here.


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## WalnutBaron (Jun 22, 2017)

+1. Some venues--like ballparks, airports, or hospitals--have a captive audience and take advantage of it to jack up food and beverage prices to the stratosphere and we grudgingly accept it because we have no alternative. But when, as Sapper points out, the resort management decides to restrict food and beverage to rooms only, that's going over the top. They might say they're doing it in order to keep your MF's reasonable, but we all know that's a lot of horse hockey.


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## dagger1 (Jun 22, 2017)

I agree with everyone above, don't understand the "no Yeti" policy...  Kind of understand the "no cooler" policy...  Kind of...  But I am amazed how cheap food and beverage prices are here compared to other resorts I've been to.  I definitely want the pool and lazy river bars to stay open...  I have seen plenty of people with drink containers though, but no coolers yet.


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## dagger1 (Jun 22, 2017)

Just left owner update:
Per Sales Rep:
1.  I am a "ghost" owner, not a "real" owner.
2.  I have 10 days to "upgrade" to Pure Points Program, which will make me:  a. A real owner; b. Give me "priority" trading in ILG resorts (Hyatt and Vistana); c. PPP is a "right to use" program which ends in 67 years (He tried to tell me that my deeded week/unit was RTU until I pointed out it was deeded in perpetuity..); 
Per Closer:
1.  PPP probably wasn't for me since I wanted to use my weeks every year and not trade a lot.
2.  I would be grandfathered into trading to other Hyatt properties but not Vistana.
3.  I should buy another EOY 1400 point Week to convert one of my 2000 point weeks to "full Hyatt Ownership" for $12,500.  This would allow me to convert this 2000 point Week to Hyatt Gold Passport points...  
4.  This was Hyatt's final pitch, and we explained we don't need the Hyatt Hotel points.

The meeting was an hour and fifteen minutes, and we received a $100 credit on our hotel bill, basically paying for the two days of Camp Armadillo we put out granddaughters in.

Sorry, but my wife botched the recording.  Not sure what she did, but....


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## bdh (Jun 22, 2017)

dagger1 said:


> I am a "ghost" owner, not a "real" owner.



LOL!!

Since you have a deed, you are a "real" owner.

The PPP buyer is a "ghost" owner as they own nothing.


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## Sapper (Jun 22, 2017)

Yeah, you have a deed, you are an owner. On that note, as an owner, what can they do to you if you were to bring food / drinks into the pool area?  I understand the best way to change the rule is to become an active participant in the management group.  Failing that, what would they do?  Cause a scene, try to remove you from a property you have an ownership interest in?


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## WalnutBaron (Jun 22, 2017)

dagger1 said:


> Just left owner update:
> Per Sales Rep:
> 1.  I am a "ghost" owner, not a "real" owner.
> 2.  I have 10 days to "upgrade" to Pure Points Program, which will make me:  a. A real owner; b. Give me "priority" trading in ILG resorts (Hyatt and Vistana); c. PPP is a "right to use" program which ends in 67 years (He tried to tell me that my deeded week/unit was RTU until I pointed out it was deeded in perpetuity..);
> ...


Dagger, thanks for the excellent report. From one "Ghost Owner" to another, well done! I think I am going to go get some Ghost Owner T-shirts made up and offer them here on the Hyatt Forum!!

Regarding the comments from the sales weasels:

You already have priority trading within HRC by virtue of your points ownership related to the weeks you own. PPP owners will *not *have priority over HRC owners for trades on legacy properties that are within HRC. Verdict: Sales Weasel Lie. So what else is new?
Nice job on the retort regarding your RTU ownership at Hyatt Wild Oak. Verdict: Sales Weasel Lie. So what else is new?
PPP probably isn't for you since you want to use your weeks every year and not trade a lot. That may be true, but the inference that you can't trade within the HRC with your current ownership is an outright fabrication. Verdict: Sales Weasel Lie. So what else is new?
You will be "grandfathered" into the other Hyatt properties but not Vistana. I have a problem with the term "grandfathered" since your ability to trade using your CUP points is an essential part of your HRC ownership. You weren't grandfathered into anything. You own it!! Regarding Vistana, no one who has ever bought Hyatt for one minute thought that ownership might give them trade rights into Vistana. False argument. Verdict: Technically true, but colored with a lot of B.S. So what else is new?
I love the pitch that "if you move to full ownership from your current ghost ownership for the low, low available today only price of just $12,500, you can then trade for hotel points!!!!" Verdict: True. And a terrible, terrible value. But what else is new?
Getting in and out in 75 minutes is an accomplishment. Congrats! And enjoy the rest of your vacation. Great job!


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## lizap (Jun 22, 2017)

dagger1 said:


> Just left owner update:
> Per Sales Rep:
> 1.  I am a "ghost" owner, not a "real" owner.
> 2.  I have 10 days to "upgrade" to Pure Points Program, which will make me:  a. A real owner; b. Give me "priority" trading in ILG resorts (Hyatt and Vistana); c. PPP is a "right to use" program which ends in 67 years (He tried to tell me that my deeded week/unit was RTU until I pointed out it was deeded in perpetuity..);
> ...




I am amazed that ILG has not "officially" communicated to current owners what our options are.  I am pretty certain what you were told (for the most part) in #2 above is not correct (unless ILG has changed their mind in the last few weeks).


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## Kal (Jun 22, 2017)

dagger1 said:


> Just left owner update:
> Per Sales Rep:
> 1.  I am a "ghost" owner, not a "real" owner.
> 2.  I have 10 days to "upgrade" to Pure Points Program, which will make me:  a. A real owner; b. Give me "priority" trading in ILG resorts (Hyatt and Vistana); c. PPP is a "right to use" program which ends in 67 years (He tried to tell me that my deeded week/unit was RTU until I pointed out it was deeded in perpetuity..);
> ...


I am soooo envious!  I would love to attend the session and have an absolute festive time twisting the hucksters tail around and around.  With regard to "priority" what is the status of someone off the street buying into the PPP? The conversation implies that they have no priority.  Or maybe they have an even higher priority because they paid $48K and not be cursed and ridiculed as being a "ghost".  Then too, what about being a "ghost anonymous" who just can't wait to go to the update meeting!


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## dagger1 (Jun 22, 2017)

lizap said:


> I am amazed that ILG has not "officially" communicated to current owners what our options are.  I am pretty certain what you were told (for the most part) in #2 above is not correct (unless ILG has changed their mind in the last few weeks).


I forgot to mention that my sales rep, a pretty decent guy, told me that all "real" owners had been notified 6 months ago about being able to upgrade to Pure Points.  He was surprised I had not been contacted about the amazing opportunity to upgrade at only $20 per point which is going to $35 per point in the near future.
Sorry about omitting this!


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## dagger1 (Jun 22, 2017)

Kal, he explained


Kal said:


> I am soooo envious!  I would love to attend the session and have an absolute festive time twisting the hucksters tail around and around.  With regard to "priority" what is the status of someone off the street buying into the PPP? The conversation implies that they have no priority.  Or maybe they have an even higher priority because they paid $48K and not be cursed and ridiculed as being a "ghost".  Then too, what about being a "ghost anonymous" who just can't wait to go to the update meeting!


Kal, he explained to me that new PPP purchasers ("real" owners) would have priority in exchanging not only in the Vistana system but in the Hyatt system and II.  That, as a "ghost" owner, I would, for exchanging purposes, be behind "real" owners, both original Hyatt purchasers AND new PPP purchasers.


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## Cropman (Jun 22, 2017)

Casper (dagger1),

If you give up one of your deeded weeks to join the awesome, new program, do you lose it forever or can you do it year-by-year?  Thanks for the report!


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## Pathways (Jun 22, 2017)

dagger1 said:


> I forgot to mention that my sales rep, a pretty decent guy, told me that all "real" owners had been notified 6 months ago about being able to upgrade to Pure Points.  He was surprised I had not been contacted about the amazing opportunity to upgrade at only $20 per point which is going to $35 per point in the near future.
> Sorry about omitting this!



Just for the record, as a "real" owner, I was not notified, and still haven't been.



Cropman said:


> Casper (dagger1),
> 
> If you give up one of your deeded weeks to join the awesome, new program, do you lose it forever or can you do it year-by-year?  Thanks for the report!



That's the question I still have: Do they take the week permanently, or is it a Y-Y decision to deposit.?


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## dagger1 (Jun 22, 2017)

Cropman said:


> Casper (dagger1),
> 
> If you give up one of your deeded weeks to join the awesome, new program, do you lose it forever or can you do it year-by-year?  Thanks for the report!


Hahaha!!  Maybe I should change my handle to "Casper"!!!  Kind of a coincidence, since my wife is from Casper (Wyoming) and all of my kids were born there!!
If you give up your deeded week, you sign your deed over to Hyatt and are "enrolled" in the PPP.  Which is a RTU program ending in 67 years.  The deeds we have which are recorded here in Bexar County (San Antonio) would then be in Hyatt's name.


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## lizap (Jun 22, 2017)

dagger1 said:


> Hahaha!!  Maybe I should change my handle to "Casper"!!!  Kind of a coincidence, since my wife is from Casper (Wyoming) and all of my kids were born there!!
> If you give up your deeded week, you sign your deed over to Hyatt and are "enrolled" in the PPP.  Which is a RTU program ending in 67 years.  The deeds we have which are recorded here in Bexar County (San Antonio) would then be in Hyatt's name.



According to my source, the plan is (was?) to allow current owners to switch to PPP on an annual basis for a fee(unless they have changed their minds recently).  ILG has to know about all this misinformation.  Makes you wonder if they 'give a flying leap'.


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## dagger1 (Jun 22, 2017)

lizap said:


> According to my source, the plan is (was?) to allow current owners to switch to PPP on an annual basis for a fee(unless they have changed their minds recently).  ILG has to know about all this misinformation.  Makes you wonder if they 'give a flying leap'.


If they have this program, they didn't mention it to me...  But my sales rep, though nice, really didn't have a clue. And the closer immediately tried to steer me to buying another EOY week (1400 points) so I could convert one of my annual weeks to Hyatt Hotel points.


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## lizap (Jun 22, 2017)

The original plan was to allow current owners a choice between a permanent conversion, yearly conversion, or no conversion. Maybe they are trying to see how many people they can sucker into the permanent conversion before they offer the annual option.  I doubt they have many takers. It is going to take a long time to build up inventory for PPP via new buildings and ROFR, so eventually they will offer the yearly conversion to PPP (for a fee). The way this is being handled unfortunately does nothing good for brand reputation.


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## Sugarcubesea (Jun 22, 2017)

dagger1 said:


> I think end of  October would be great:  Wurstfest in New Braunfels!!


Ohhh, is that a German Festival?  It sounds good


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## dagger1 (Jun 22, 2017)

Sugarcubesea said:


> Ohhh, is that a German Festival?  It sounds good


A lot of the towns around San Antonio have a long German history, including San Antonio itself (although nothing like the Hispanic history here.). New Braunfels, Fredericksburg, Luckenbach, Boerne to name just a few.  Great places to visit.  Wurstfest in New Braunfels is normally the last weekend in October and first weekend in November.  It's definitely fun, definitely crowded!  Canyon Lake is just a short drive and a beautiful area.  Fredericksburg is in the middle of Texas Wine Country, lots to do there too.  And then there is San Antonio itself, with it's Riverwalk, Missions, Mexican Market, Pearl Street, and of course the Alamo!!  And great restaurants!!


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## lizap (Jun 22, 2017)

dagger1 said:


> A lot of the towns around San Antonio have a long German history, including San Antonio itself (although nothing like the Hispanic history here.). New Braunfels, Fredericksburg, Luckenbach, Boerne to name just a few.  Great places to visit.  Wurstfest in New Braunfels is normally the last weekend in October and first weekend in November.  It's definitely fun, definitely crowded!  Canyon Lake is just a short drive and a beautiful area.  Fredericksburg is in the middle of Texas Wine Country, lots to do there too.  And then there is San Antonio itself, with it's Riverwalk, Missions, Mexican Market, Pearl Street, and of course the Alamo!!  And great restaurants!!



We love San Antonio.  Like New Orleans, I would avoid in the summer, due to the heat/humidity.


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## dagger1 (Jun 22, 2017)

lizap said:


> We love San Antonio.  Like New Orleans, I would avoid in the summer, due to the heat/humidity.


We have fixed weeks 22 and 23 (early June) and an EOYE week 15 (mid April). Still warm during early June, but we needed weeks when school is out.  We spend July in Casper, Wy; Butte, Mt (and Glacier), and Breckenridge, Colorado.  Back to Texas first week of August...


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## Kal (Jun 22, 2017)

dagger1 said:


> I forgot to mention that my sales rep, a pretty decent guy, told me that all "real" owners had been notified 6 months ago about being able to upgrade to Pure Points.  He was surprised I had not been contacted about the amazing opportunity to upgrade at only $20 per point which is going to $35 per point in the near future.
> Sorry about omitting this!


6 months ago (Dec 2016) Hyatt would not even recognize that the PPP even existed on the drawing boards.  In Feb 2017 they still didn't tell anyone, but had planned to roll it out in the 3rd week of February.  Notifications???  I don't think so.


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## Sugarcubesea (Jun 22, 2017)

dagger1 said:


> A lot of the towns around San Antonio have a long German history, including San Antonio itself (although nothing like the Hispanic history here.). New Braunfels, Fredericksburg, Luckenbach, Boerne to name just a few.  Great places to visit.  Wurstfest in New Braunfels is normally the last weekend in October and first weekend in November.  It's definitely fun, definitely crowded!  Canyon Lake is just a short drive and a beautiful area.  Fredericksburg is in the middle of Texas Wine Country, lots to do there too.  And then there is San Antonio itself, with it's Riverwalk, Missions, Mexican Market, Pearl Street, and of course the Alamo!!  And great restaurants!!


I really enjoyed my stay at the Hyatt in Key West and I really want to go to San Antonia, thanks for all of this great info...


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## dahntahn (Jun 22, 2017)

WalnutBaron said:


> Dagger, thanks for the excellent report. From one "Ghost Owner" to another, well done! I think I am going to go get some Ghost Owner T-shirts made up and offer them here on the Hyatt Forum!!
> 
> Regarding the comments from the sales weasels:
> 
> ...


Walnut Baron,
How do you know that #1 above is true?  We have had no official word from Hyatt on the final shape of the PPP program, and we were told by a sales weasel at a presentation at CP that PPP members WOULD have priority over HRC members for trades in the HRC legacy properties.  Maybe he was lying [shocker!] but in the absence of any official word how can you say unequivocally that you know this?  Obviously I hope you are dead right.


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## WalnutBaron (Jun 22, 2017)

Because HRC weeks are held in a separate and distinct trust from PPP weeks which will be (are) held in a different trust. HRC weeks will be traded within the traditional legacy system and PPP weeks will be held and traded within that system. The best way to think about this is that the only similarity between the two systems is that they both have the name Hyatt on them. 

Is Hyatt acquiring certain prime weeks from legacy owners? Yes. When they exercise their ROFR, they are then transferring those weeks from the legacy HRC system to the new PPP. But this does not mean that the PPP owners will have "priority" for trading purposes since the internal trades will be conducted in two different systems.

As to the sales weasels, it's back to the old saw: how do you know they're lying? When their lips move.


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## lizap (Jun 22, 2017)

WalnutBaron said:


> Because HRC weeks are held in a separate and distinct trust from PPP weeks which will be (are) held in a different trust. HRC weeks will be traded within the traditional legacy system and PPP weeks will be held and traded within that system. The best way to think about this is that the only similarity between the two systems is that they both have the name Hyatt on them.
> 
> Is Hyatt acquiring certain prime weeks from legacy owners? Yes. When they exercise their ROFR, they are then transferring those weeks from the legacy HRC system to the new PPP. But this does not mean that the PPP owners will have "priority" for trading purposes since the internal trades will be conducted in two different systems.
> 
> As to the sales weasels, it's back to the old saw: how do you know they're lying? When their lips move.




It is going to difficult for Hyatt to quickly acquire the inventory it needs just from ROFR and new buildings.  Seems to me they are making a lot of promises they are not going to be able to keep..which is why I think they will follow through on their plan to allow current owners to switch to PPP on an annual basis (for a fee).


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## dagger1 (Jun 22, 2017)

Sugarcubesea said:


> I really enjoyed my stay at the Hyatt in Key West and I really want to go to San Antonia, thanks for all of this great info...


You are welcome!  There's a lot to do, including just drinking beer listening to music out at Luckenback or at Gruene Hall in Gruene (New Braunfels)! Or floating the Guadalupe.  Or just hanging at HWOR!!


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## Tucsonadventurer (Jun 27, 2017)

lizap said:


> The original plan was to allow current owners a choice between a permanent conversion, yearly conversion, or no conversion. Maybe they are trying to see how many people they can sucker into the permanent conversion before they offer the annual option.  I doubt they have many takers. It is going to take a long time to build up inventory for PPP via new buildings and ROFR, so eventually they will offer the yearly conversion to PPP (for a fee). The way this is being handled unfortunately does nothing good for brand reputation.


We went to a presentation at Pinon Pointe today and were told that you could go back and forth and have access to both the PPP and legacy and that the PPP would also have access to legacy weeks. They were just in training by the central office and are not yet offering the program, still selling weeks. They did say Hawaii would eventually be in the PPP once they sold more units. I think they are still working out 'kinks in the program and supposedly once they do Hyatt willl send out letters. Still so many unknowns and confusion but Vistanna properties will not be part of the new program. They tried but too many issues came up. If it ever happened it would be well down the road
is not in the


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## Cropman (Jun 28, 2017)

Tucsonadventurer said:


> We went to a presentation at Pinon Pointe today and were told that you could go back and forth and have access to both the PPP and legacy and that the PPP would also have access to legacy weeks. They were just in training by the central office and are not yet offering the program, still selling weeks. They did say Hawaii would eventually be in the PPP once they sold more units. I think they are still working out 'kinks in the program and supposedly once they do Hyatt willl send out letters. Still so many unknowns and confusion but Vistanna properties will not be part of the new program. They tried but too many issues came up. If it ever happened it would be well down the road
> is not in the



Thanks for the update!!  Are you also a ghost owner?  Great, conflicting info from the salesmen.  Well, I guess depending on the outcome you want, depends on which salesman you go to then.  I wonder if they offer different prices for the same program also?


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## lizap (Jun 28, 2017)

Cropman said:


> Thanks for the update!!  Are you also a ghost owner?  Great, conflicting info from the salesmen.  Well, I guess depending on the outcome you want, depends on which salesman you go to then.  I wonder if they offer different prices for the same program also?



I believe most of the info got today at PP to be correct, the only exception being Hawaii is not included in PPP (at least that was the original plan). And, I seriously doubt that salespeople would be privy to the info that they tried to get Vistana in the program.


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## Tucsonadventurer (Jun 28, 2017)

Kal said:


> 6 months ago (Dec 2016) Hyatt would not even recognize that the PPP even existed on the drawing boards.  In Feb 2017 they still didn't tell anyone, but had planned to roll it out in the 3rd week of February.  Notifications???  I don't think so.


We


lizap said:


> I believe most of the info got today at PP to be correct, the only exception being Hawaii is not included in PPP (at least that was the original plan). And, I seriously doubt that salespeople would be privy to the info that they tried to get Vistana in the program.


Our 1st salesman, nice guy,  knew nothing, but the closer had just been in training and said that the information I had heard was incorrect, that I would still own my week and could use inventory in either program.He actually agreed it would be crazy to give up our week. What is concerning is that PP owners could also use our inventory and we would have low priority or he claimed we, as secondary market owners were not even eligible for the inventory in the PP program unless we payed the fee to make our week legitimate. We would need to pay 12,500 to convert our week to be able to have  access to the new program. I have no clue what we would even  get for that 12,500 except access to hotel points which we don't care about and possibly priority bidding and higher MFs. The rep was concerned with all the misinformation out there and I recommended that if he had someone's ear they should know that there was a lot of concern and confusion and we should get an official letter from Hyatt . He also did not have all the information yet and it sounds like they are still working out kinks. No mention of trying it, only for new owners. They sounded surprised to hear the term ghost owner. I came out even more confused about the program and am not sure why anyone would be interested when you would have no clue what you were even purchasing. When I expressed concern about inventory in PP they agreed that was a concern right now. We are going in Jan to Sunset Harbor so I expect there will be more clarity by then and we will try again  to understand the changes. Meanwhile I so appreciate others posting the information they hear as it comes in.


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## Tucsonadventurer (Jun 28, 2017)

Cropman said:


> Thanks for the update!!  Are you also a ghost owner?  Great, conflicting info from the salesmen.  Well, I guess depending on the outcome you want, depends on which salesman you go to then.  I wonder if they offer different prices for the same program also?


We are ghost owners also. It would be interesting to hear what is being offered to new owners.


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## Tucsonadventurer (Jun 28, 2017)

dahntahn said:


> Walnut Baron,
> How do you know that #1 above is true?  We have had no official word from Hyatt on the final shape of the PPP program, and we were told by a sales weasel at a presentation at CP that PPP members WOULD have priority over HRC members for trades in the HRC legacy properties.  Maybe he was lying [shocker!] but in the absence of any official word how can you say unequivocally that you know this?  Obviously I hope you are dead right.


We heard this also today and that is concerning. The only up side is that many Colorado resorts are not in the program as well as Siesta Key due to them being fractionals and he MFs being too expensive for inclusion in the PP program. Our rep called the program the Portfolio program so there is even confusion about the name at this point.


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## lizap (Jun 28, 2017)

Tucsonadventurer said:


> We
> 
> Our 1st salesman, nice guy,  knew nothing, but the closer had just been in training and said that the information I had heard was incorrect, that I would still own my week and could use inventory in either program.He actually agreed it would be crazy to give up our week. What is concerning is that PP owners could also use our inventory and we would have low priority or he claimed we, as secondary market owners were not even eligible for the inventory in the PP program unless we payed the fee to make our week legitimate. We would need to pay 12,500 to convert our week to be able to have  access to the new program. I have no clue what we would even  get for that 12,500 except access to hotel points which we don't care about and possibly priority bidding and higher MFs. The rep was concerned with all the misinformation out there and I recommended that if he had someone's ear they should know that there was a lot of concern and confusion and we should get an official letter from Hyatt . He also did not have all the information yet and it sounds like they are still working out kinks. No mention of trying it, only for new owners. They sounded surprised to hear the term ghost owner. I came out even more confused about the program and am not sure why anyone would be interested when you would have no clue what you were even purchasing. When I expressed concern about inventory in PP they agreed that was a concern right now. We are going in Jan to Sunset Harbor so I expect there will be more clarity by then and we will try again  to understand the changes. Meanwhile I so appreciate others posting the information they hear as it comes in.



Really sounds like a salesperson trying to get you to convert your week.  There will be a resale fee, but it will be much, much less than 12.5k (more along the lines of the Marriott fee). He is correct that it will be called 'portfolio'. Really unfortunate that ILG is allowing all this misinformation.


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## WalnutBaron (Jun 28, 2017)

Until Hyatt comes out with official information in writing, I really think any information from the sales weasels is (take your pick): a) pure speculation; b) pure fabrication; or c) pure misinformation. Let's face it: ILG has been itching to figure out how to create synergy and shareholder value (or--to put it another way--increased profit margins) by somehow merging the Hyatt and Vistana systems ever since their Vistana buyout in 2016. HRP (the name given by ILG for what we all have been referring to as Pure Points) is their attempt to do so. It doesn't make sense to create a program which only re-positions the Hyatt program without also including Vistana. Why? The weasels need a compelling sales story--and telling Hyatt owners to convert their fixed weeks into a points program for tens of thousands of dollars in order to get points for...oh, something that carries much less value than what they already own may be sufficient for the clueless newbies but _*will not*_ attract existing owners to convert. The compelling sales story, then, must include Vistana: Look at the wide reach of resorts we can now offer! We now have five resorts in Hawaii, not one! We now can offer locations like Orlando, Scottsdale, Cancun--places you cannot visit with your HRC ownership! And look at the flexibility--you're not locked in to one fixed week anymore! Blah, blah, blah!

As Cropman so eloquently put it, "Great. Conflicting info from the salesmen." 

For now, the only value in attending an owner's update is for the freebie. Because the information is essentially useless. Oh wait--did I say "for now"??? My mistake. Nothing has changed


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## dahntahn (Jun 28, 2017)

Has there been any information on when HRC will actually publish in writing the details and rules of this new plan that we have been hearing about for many months and about which swirls all kinds of conflicting rumor and misinformation?


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## WalnutBaron (Jun 28, 2017)

dahntahn said:


> Has there been any information on when HRC will actually publish in writing the details and rules of this new plan that we have been hearing about for many months and about which swirls all kinds of conflicting rumor and misinformation?


No. Other than the information included by davevt98 in Post 276 of "Hyatt Pure Points Program" thread, we're hearing nothing but crickets from HRC. I'm starting to wonder if the tentative rollout in Florida is designed to be some kind of test market to gauge legacy owners' interest in "upgrading" to the HRP (or what we've been calling Pure Points). Without massive conversions, HRP is going to find it both expensive and tedious to try to build a portfolio of desirable weeks in the HRP inventory by slowly accumulating them through ROFR. And I'm guessing the test market is not going well. The reason so little information is available is because Hyatt is fine-tuning, adjusting, and trying to figure out how they can create something that's attractive to legacy owners as well as to new marks for the HRP. I'm guessing they're finding that task increasingly difficult.


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## lizap (Jun 28, 2017)

WalnutBaron said:


> No. Other than the information included by davevt98 in Post 276 of "Hyatt Pure Points Program" thread, we're hearing nothing but crickets from HRC. I'm starting to wonder if the tentative rollout in Florida is designed to be some kind of test market to gauge legacy owners' interest in "upgrading" to the HRP (or what we've been calling Pure Points). Without massive conversions, HRP is going to find it both expensive and tedious to try to build a portfolio of desirable weeks in the HRP inventory by slowly accumulating them through ROFR. And I'm guessing the test market is not going well. The reason so little information is available is because Hyatt is fine-tuning, adjusting, and trying to figure out how they can create something that's attractive to legacy owners as well as to new marks for the HRP. I'm guessing they're finding that task increasingly difficult.



I would hope you're right, because that might make a little sense, but from what I've heard recently about ILG's financial issues, I'm not so sure.


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## lizap (Jun 28, 2017)

WalnutBaron said:


> Until Hyatt comes out with official information in writing, I really think any information from the sales weasels is (take your pick): a) pure speculation; b) pure fabrication; or c) pure misinformation. Let's face it: ILG has been itching to figure out how to create synergy and shareholder value (or--to put it another way--increased profit margins) by somehow merging the Hyatt and Vistana systems ever since their Vistana buyout in 2016. HRP (the name given by ILG for what we all have been referring to as Pure Points) is their attempt to do so. It doesn't make sense to create a program which only re-positions the Hyatt program without also including Vistana. Why? The weasels need a compelling sales story--and telling Hyatt owners to convert their fixed weeks into a points program for tens of thousands of dollars in order to get points for...oh, something that carries much less value than what they already own may be sufficient for the clueless newbies but _*will not*_ attract existing owners to convert. The compelling sales story, then, must include Vistana: Look at the wide reach of resorts we can now offer! We now have five resorts in Hawaii, not one! We now can offer locations like Orlando, Scottsdale, Cancun--places you cannot visit with your HRC ownership! And look at the flexibility--you're not locked in to one fixed week anymore! Blah, blah, blah!
> 
> As Cropman so eloquently put it, "Great. Conflicting info from the salesmen."
> 
> For now, the only value in attending an owner's update is for the freebie. Because the information is essentially useless. Oh wait--did I say "for now"??? My mistake. Nothing has changed



I don't see PPP owners having priority access to all Vistana resorts.  Maybe the resorts in the Flex system, but not the Westins.  Even the Vistana folks who own FLEX don't have priority access to these over resale mandatory owners.  The six resorts in FLEX are:
*
Sheraton Vistana Resort (FL-Orlando)

Sheraton Vistana Villages (FL-Orlando)

Vistana's Beach Club (FL-Jensen Beach)

Sheraton Desert Oasis (AZ-Scottsdale)

Sheraton Broadway Plantation (SC-Myrtle Beach)

Sheraton Steamboat Springs (CO-Steamboat Springs)
*


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## WalnutBaron (Jun 28, 2017)

lizap said:


> I don't see PPP owners having priority access to all Vistana resorts.  Maybe the resorts in the Flex system, but not the Westins.  Even the Vistana folks who own FLEX don't have priority access to these over resale mandatory owners.  The six resorts in FLEX are:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You may be right, but you're looking at things through the lens of current rules of use for HRC, Vistana Flex, and Westin resorts. I'm looking at it through a more strategic viewpoint of what ILG wants to do to create synergy with all of these highly-leveraged new toys they own--namely, the HRC system and the Vistana/Starwood system. Having these systems operate independently as they have while under the management aegis of their respective hotel chains might be nice, but the returns are not very exciting when you've incurred very large debt burdens in order to finance the acquisitions of those systems. And in order to "juice" the returns on investment, I am guessing that ILG management is wanting to create a new "super-option" called HRP which will allow those members (not HRC or Vistana owners, unless they convert and agree to a so-called "upgrade") to gain access to all of the resorts that ILG now owns. 

As I mentioned in a separate post, I'm guessing that the early test market of this concept is not going well--thus the delays in rolling this thing out. Ultimately, they're going to need the participation of existing owners, and those owners are not seeing the benefits, despite the best efforts of the sales weasels. The only alternative is to build new resorts for the HRP, but that is also both time-consuming and heavily capital intensive.

I'm guessing ILG is feeling the squeeze, and the synergies they were hoping to create when HRC and Starwood were acquired are not materializing.


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## lizap (Jun 28, 2017)

WalnutBaron said:


> You may be right, but you're looking at things through the lens of current rules of use for HRC, Vistana Flex, and Westin resorts. I'm looking at it through a more strategic viewpoint of what ILG wants to do to create synergy with all of these highly-leveraged new toys they own--namely, the HRC system and the Vistana/Starwood system. Having these systems operate independently as they have while under the management aegis of their respective hotel chains might be nice, but the returns are not very exciting when you've incurred very large debt burdens in order to finance the acquisitions of those systems. And in order to "juice" the returns on investment, I am guessing that ILG management is wanting to create a new "super-option" called HRP which will allow those members (not HRC or Vistana owners, unless they convert and agree to a so-called "upgrade") to gain access to all of the resorts that ILG now owns.
> 
> As I mentioned in a separate post, I'm guessing that the early test market of this concept is not going well--thus the delays in rolling this thing out. Ultimately, they're going to need the participation of existing owners, and those owners are not seeing the benefits, despite the best efforts of the sales weasels. The only alternative is to build new resorts for the HRP, but that is also both time-consuming and heavily capital intensive.
> 
> I'm guessing ILG is feeling the squeeze, and the synergies they were hoping to create when HRC and Starwood were acquired are not materializing.




I think there's little doubt they're 'feeling the squeeze'.  We had a similar concern a couple of years ago after ILG acquired Starwood (Westin/Sheraton) TSs.  There was consternation over on the Vistana (then Starwood) forum that mandatory Starwood owners would be hurt by the new FLEX system.  No effect so far (as I can tell), and I strongly suspect the same will be the case here.  I think ILG will find ways to increase revenue by increasing II fees as well as new fees to convert to PPP on annual basis.


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## Kal (Jun 28, 2017)

In mid-spring the word on the street was the HRP (PPP) would be rolled out in "July" in Florida.  So maybe we'll get something in writing in a couple of weeks?  Of course, maybe that timeframe is being reprogramed too.


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## Tucsonadventurer (Jun 28, 2017)

lizap said:


> I don't see PPP owners having priority access to all Vistana resorts.  Maybe the resorts in the Flex system, but not the Westins.  Even the Vistana folks who own FLEX don't have priority access to these over resale mandatory owners.  The six resorts in FLEX are:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I specifically asked about Vistanna at our owners update as last year Pinon Pointe mentioned 7 new resorts many being Vistana. When I reminded them they said it never panned out but we could access them through interval. Because Marriott owns the hotel side there were too many issues coming up that he seemed doubtful that Vistanna resorts would be possible. for the new program


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