# which point system has generally lower mf's?



## Gophesjo (Jan 27, 2012)

Wyndham or Bluegreen?  (Keeping program/membership fees in mind, too.). Thanks!


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## ronparise (Jan 27, 2012)

Be careful you are comparing apples to apples

Heres how I would look at your question

Using Daytona Beach as an example. BlueGreens Daytona resort takes 18000 points for a 2 bedroom week in the Summer. With BlueGreen there is a 18000 point auction on ebay where the mf is quoted at $523.. so 18000 points would be about $1050

Wyndhams Daytona Resort takes 203000 points for a 2 bedroom week in the Summer.  With Wyndham using points that cost you $5.50 per 1000 points your cost for a week would be about $1100

I see it as pretty much dead even....$1100 a year mf will buy pretty much the same vacation

***************************************************

Understand that's one resort and assumptions re Blue Green mf based on one 
auction. I know you can get Wyndham points cheaper, and probably can get Blue Green points cheaper, and there will be different resorts with different points requirements..

Rather than looking at the mf cost first, I would look at the resorts in the Blue green portfolio and those in the Wyndham portfolio and decide which has the best choices for you

For example Wyndham has the only timeshares in the Washington DC area..If thats important to you the decision is easy... buy Wyndham...damn the cost


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## Gophesjo (Jan 27, 2012)

Been doing some of that - looking at the resorts for both in the portfolios in Myrtle Beach, and still thinking about those shorter off season getaways.  I guess I will need to think about reservation charges, too, and any housekeeping costs for dealing with non-full-week trips.  Thanks Ron - I appreciate your analysis and input!


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## chriskre (Jan 27, 2012)

If you are interested in one particular BG resort you'll want to buy there resale so that you can get access to cash bonus time at that one resort.  With Wyndham there is no cash bonus time option but they sometimes discount the points within 30 days.  

If you are thinking you'll want bonus time at all the BG resorts then you'll want to buy qualified points from someone like Boca who understands all the trust funds and can set you up correctly.  Bonus time may be easy to get if you're not following the school calendar.


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## bmwegemer (Feb 8, 2012)

ronparise said:


> Be careful you are comparing apples to apples
> 
> Heres how I would look at your question
> 
> ...



I agree with a lot of what Ron is saying.  I work for Wyndham and am not too familiar with BlueGreen's program.  I would also keep in mind things "included" in these maintenance fees.  (for example) Wyndham includes the costs of an RCI exchange membership.  This is a membership other companies do not include.  This RCI exchange gives you an even more extended portfolio of resorts if Wyndham specific resorts were not enough to possibly match all your future needs.  I would research other fees/memberships/perks you COULD get from buying from an auction/resale compared to buying from a developer.  Cheaper is NOT always better when it comes to extra perks and other fees.


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## SOS8260456 (Feb 8, 2012)

I enjoy my Wyndham points, but they tend to nickel and dime you to death unless your VIP (and they are starting to do that to those owners also).

I am in the process of purchasing some BG points right now.  I like the system and as far as I can see so far there are not as many nickel and dime charges and they ALSO include RCI membership as part of their annual fees.

You just need to do your research and decide which system works best for you and your family.


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## TootToot (Feb 10, 2012)

*Nickel and dime?*



SOS8260456 said:


> I enjoy my Wyndham points, but they tend to nickel and dime you to death unless your VIP (and they are starting to do that to those owners also).
> 
> I am in the process of purchasing some BG points right now.  I like the system and as far as I can see so far there are not as many nickel and dime charges and they ALSO include RCI membership as part of their annual fees.
> 
> You just need to do your research and decide which system works best for you and your family.



What do you mean by nickel and dime at Wyndham? I'm Bluegreen and you get one annual bill for maintenance fees, etc. and that's it. We looked at an exhange to Wyndham but pulled back because what they told us didn't jibe with the materials they gave us.


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## GrayFal (Feb 10, 2012)

bmwegemer said:


> I agree with a lot of what Ron is saying.  I work for Wyndham and am not too familiar with BlueGreen's program.  I would also keep in mind things "included" in these maintenance fees.  (for example) Wyndham includes the costs of an RCI exchange membership.  This is a membership other companies do not include.  This RCI exchange gives you an even more extended portfolio of resorts if Wyndham specific resorts were not enough to possibly match all your future needs.  I would research other fees/memberships/perks you COULD get from buying from an auction/resale compared to buying from a developer.  Cheaper is NOT always better when it comes to extra perks and other fees.


I own Bluegreen and Wyndham.

Bluegreen also includes RCI membership as part of the cost that gives you access to RCI weeks and RCI Points if so desired.

Bluegreen does not charge a fee for a guest certificate and does not make you get a guest certificate if you have more then one room at a resort.

I had 3 units booked a La Cabana this New Years and I was able to check into all three and add my daughter and fathers name at no cost.
Wyndham would have made me buy 2 guest certificates at $99($129) each

Bluegreen allows you to make unlimited reservations any time during the year using your points with no fee.

Wyndham allows you to make unlimited reservations but charges a fee based on the number of points you own - I believe that for every 77K points you get one reservation??? So unless you can plan your full years use at once, it can be tricky to avoid paying a reservation fee.

Wyndham has more resorts then Bluegreen but Bluegreen has them where I want to travel. I also have access to the Shell Vacation Club Resorts thru the "Select Connection" program.

When I go to any Bluegreen resort, I am treated as an owner. 
When I go to Wyndham resorts using points, I have to pay additional fees unless my points are deeded at that particular resort, treated like an exchanger not a owner.

You decide......


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## GrayFal (Feb 10, 2012)

TootToot said:


> What do you mean by nickel and dime at Wyndham? I'm Bluegreen and you get one annual bill for maintenance fees, etc. and that's it. We looked at an exhange to Wyndham but pulled back because what they told us didn't jibe with the materials they gave us.



See my post above, there are additional fees for almost everything...can you believe you have to pay to make a reservation??? Bring a family member with you in a second unit?

Also, your Wyndham MFs are based on what resort your deed is from - with BG, you pay a base fee of $320 plus $0.045 per point owned, the more points you own, the lower your per point cost is.
10,000 points = 320+450=770 $7.70 per 1K
20,000 points = 320+900=1220 $6.10 per 1K
30,000 points = 320+1350=1670 $5.50 per 1K
40,000 points = 320+1800=2120 $5.30 per 1K

That is nickel & dime-ing!


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## GeraldineT (Feb 10, 2012)

GrayFal said:


> I own Bluegreen and Wyndham.
> 
> Bluegreen also includes RCI membership as part of the cost that gives you access to RCI weeks and Points if so desired.
> 
> ...



I am curious about how you are treated differently.  I own Bonnet Creek and feel I am treated and "pay" the same when I stay at Skyline Towers.  I have never had to pay anything additional.


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## GrayFal (Feb 10, 2012)

GeraldineT said:


> I am curious about how you are treated differently.  I own Bonnet Creek and feel I am treated and "pay" the same when I stay at Skyline Towers.  I have never had to pay anything additional.


I use Wyndham Points deeded in Williamsburg to stay at Bluebeards Beach Club in STT where I also own 2 fixed weeks.
For my points reservation stay, I have to pay the energy surcharge that is not charged to owners.


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## TootToot (Feb 10, 2012)

*Wow*

Wow, thanks for the explanations, everyone. I had no idea there could be so many charges, coming from a straightforward experience at Bluegreen. Makes me grateful we didn't exchange our Bluegreen for Wyndham!


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## massvacationer (Feb 10, 2012)

*MY ATTEMPT AT A FAIR AND BALANCED VIEW OF WYNDHAM BASED ON 4 YEARS OF (RESALE) OWNERSHIP:*

I think it boils down to deciding which mini-system has the resorts that you want to frequent.  For me, Wyndham was really the only choice - as they has a lot of resorts within driving distance.   No other mini-system is as well represented in the North East and DC area.  And, they just added Smuggs in VT, which is great.

The Wyndham fees that may affect you are Houskeeping, Reservation Fees, and guest Fees.   I have owned for 4 years and have managed to avoid paying Housekeeping and Guest Fees (you get one free guest certificate per year).  But, I have had to pay reservation fees  (@ $30 a pop).  This is a little annoying, but I do make a lot of reservations and I end up canceling some (and rebooking) due to scheduling conflicts.  through good management, I think you can avoid or keep fees to a minimum.  You do get one free reservation transaction per 77k points owned, and you can make multiple reservations during the same day and it only costs one transaction.  So, you can avoid paying for reservation transactions, if you do a better job planning than I do  

Anyway, the Wyndham system is good, if it includes resorts that you are going to visit frequently.  Very flexible and good availability of units (if you make a reasonable effort to plan).  

I bought resale, so my costs are just the maintenance fees and occasional reservation fee.   i'm happy with it!

If you travel in shoulder seasons, or to resorts with great availabilty, you may be able to save $ by finding a Wyndham VIP Owner, who can get discounts and pass those on to you.   In this situation, one could make a case that you might forgo owning and rent instead.   

If you travel during highly sought-after weeks, you may be better-off owning, because the reservations will all be taken before the discount period - and you may want to have control to get your reservation when they are available.

I have always been treated well at all of the Wyndham Resorts that I have visited - and  they try to give me room locations that I request, etc.  I feel the folks that work on the Hospitality side and resort management side of Wyndham are great.    I think they view all Wyndham points owners as "owners" and don't reallly differentiate as to where your points are deeded or whether you are a retail or resale buyer.

The resort staff are great - but the sales folks can be less pleasant.  Avoid the sales folks, or at least be prepared for what you might hear if you decide to go to an "owner update".


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## jasavak (Feb 13, 2012)

I go to Pagosa Springs , CO every year and hear many complaints from the Wyndham owners .  In addition to the added fees they seem to cut back on the maintenance on some of their buildings .

   The better buildings and their best inventory is reserved for outside rentals to make extra money .  In other words , money talks and the owners come last with this company .


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## 6scoops (Feb 14, 2012)

TootToot said:


> Wow, thanks for the explanations, everyone. I had no idea there could be so many charges, coming from a straightforward experience at Bluegreen. Makes me grateful we didn't exchange our Bluegreen for Wyndham!



What do you mean exchange?  I'm wondering if you mean turn over your Bluegreen for Wyndham points?  I was just at a short sales pitch this past weekend in Wis. Dells, and the sales guy was trying to get me to trade in my Myrtle Beach timeshare for Wyndham points, and I have never heard of this before so I'm curious if you where told the same thing?  

He said I could get 254,000 points for my MB,  but I would also have to buy 105,000 from him for a mere 15K!!  I would have a total of 359,000 points and only pay maintenance on the 105,000 points???  I wasn't buying a word of it.  I'm curious what tuggers think of this pitch?


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## alexadeparis (Feb 15, 2012)

Sounds like you would keep your Myrtle Beach unit and use it as Points for Deposit within RCI, and/or because of your VIP status that your new 359k points would give you, turn in points to pay part of the MF.


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## rrlongwell (Feb 15, 2012)

alexadeparis said:


> Sounds like you would keep your Myrtle Beach unit and use it as Points for Deposit within RCI, and/or because of your VIP status that your new 359k points would give you, turn in points to pay part of the MF.



Sounds like a PIC contract.  You keep Bluegreen, buy the points indicated, pay maintance fees to Wyndham for the new purchase and pay maintance fees as you have been doing to Bluegreen.  Every year, for a small fee, you can get the Bluegreen week converted to Wyndham points.  Not a bad deal if you want Wyndham VIP status.  The Wyndham points could be used anywhere in the Wyndham Vacation Resorts system.

P.S.  The Mrytle Beach Wyndhams for the most part are on the Ocean and the locations far exceed the Blue Green property that is across the street.


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## rickandcindy23 (Feb 15, 2012)

alexadeparis said:


> Sounds like you would keep your Myrtle Beach unit and use it as Points for Deposit within RCI, and/or because of your VIP status that your new 359k points would give you, turn in points to pay part of the MF.



I don't know what RCI PFD has to do with Wyndham.  I must not understand this post.   

You can do PFD into RCI Points of a week that is not at a resort with even one RCI Points member.  

Maybe the salesman was telling this person they can PIC a week into Wyndham and attain the Gold VIP status?  

Could be Wyndham offers to take the week as a deposit for the purchase.  We bought a week on eBay at our home (favorite) resort for a few hundred dollars, closing costs included.  I talked to the former owners of that week, and they traded in their Colorado ski week for Welk Points.  Hilarious.  They said they got "credited" what they originally paid for the ski week toward the purchase.  :rofl: They were ripped off!  Small points package, and I wouldn't have paid $500 for what they got.


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## alexadeparis (Feb 15, 2012)

rrlongwell said:


> Sounds like a PIC contract.  You keep Bluegreen, buy the points indicated, pay maintance fees to Wyndham for the new purchase and pay maintance fees as you have been doing to Bluegreen.  Every year, for a small fee, you can get the Bluegreen week converted to Wyndham points.  Not a bad deal if you want Wyndham VIP status.  The Wyndham points could be used anywhere in the Wyndham Vacation Resorts system.
> .



This is a better explanation of what I was thinking, I used the wrong term. It should have been PIC not PFD.


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## 6scoops (Feb 15, 2012)

rickandcindy23 said:


> I don't know what RCI PFD has to do with Wyndham.  I must not understand this post.
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe the salesman was telling this person they can PIC a week into Wyndham and attain the Gold VIP status?



Yes, this is what I think he was trying to sell me,  I turn in my PRV, (not blue green) and get 254k wyndham points, somehow I have less maintenance fees and RCI fees to pay after I do this.  I also would of had to buy 105k points (for 15K) with wyndham, and pay $54.00 per month for 359K points?  I was totally confused as I know absolutely nothing about the Wyndham system, and did not want to spend that much time with him.  He did say something about gold VIP status and using points to pay fees??

So I guess I was curious about turning one timeshare over for another?  Why would Wyndhan want my 3 bedroom PRV timeshare?  I just don't get this at all.  What is a PIC contract?


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## vacationhopeful (Feb 15, 2012)

6scoops said:


> ....So I guess I was curious about turning one timeshare over for another?  Why would Wyndhan want my 3 bedroom PRV timeshare?  I just don't get this at all.  What is a PIC contract?




Wyndham does NOT want your PRV timeshare. You still own it, you pay a $89 year Wyndham fee to keep it on the Wyndham computer system, pay another fee IF you decide you Want to Use that alloctment of WYndham points, and Wyndham deposit your unit into RCI (for some fuzzy, wazzy exchange balance calculation --- so instead of giving up a week in their timeshare system for another member's deposit of WYndham Points into RCI, they cough over your PRV unit.

Wyndham wins because they sold you something, you are paying another $89 a year for each PIC future option, and you pay again for when you want to you the Wyndham points. THen you pay Wyndham their extra fees, like RTs, HKs, and GCs. Dang, forgot about the all important $15K in developer purchased points.


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## Ridewithme38 (Feb 15, 2012)

Gophesjo said:


> Wyndham or Bluegreen?  (Keeping program/membership fees in mind, too.). Thanks!



Why points at all?

I own a week 27 in the Wyndham system, if it was points it would be worth 182,000 points and cost more...With my Week 27 i get about 53 TPU's and am able to book just about ANYTHING in RCI including Wyndham weeks...Just last week i booked a 3br in Governors green for 23 TPU, now doing the math, with RCI membership, exchange fee AND my cost per TPU, that week cost me $632.11...within the Wyndham System that week would have been 203,000 points WAY out of my reach and you'd have to have a points ownership less then $3.11 per 1000 to get it at the same price i did

My other week is a Sheraton Broadway Plantation...Because i own a Floating week with an Underlying fixed week 34, i can book week 34 at 24 months out...WAY before anyone in the points program can see it...i can also make a reservation for ANY other week from 8-12 months which is still before the Star Options Points owners can...


In general, Fixed weeks are just better...


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## vacationhopeful (Feb 15, 2012)

Ride,
2 of my FIXED weeks get me 70 TPU with each deposit. I am almost ready to go on a serious hunt for 2 or 3 MORE of those weeks and sell my other weeks.


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## 6scoops (Feb 15, 2012)

Ride,

I totally agree, why bother with points at all?  I am getting great tpu for my PRV!  The funny part about the entire sale is this guy claims it would save me future rci fees and maintenance fees.  I flat out told him all I see is I'm paying Wyndham instead of RCI (which are the same?? ) Not to mention the huge buy in.  I like the Wyndham's, but don't know enough to venture into their points system yet.  I think I'm pretty happy with trading in!  I got the Wyndham Glacier Canyon on a last call for 5 tpu!  That was with my PRV that got me 60 tpu to begin with.

Linda,

Thanks for the clarification!  The sales guy could not get that far in the pitch, because I made it clear I was not buying.  So I left very confused, I had no idea they could turn my prv into wyndham points.  Learn something new everyday on Tug!!


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## GrayFal (Feb 15, 2012)

rrlongwell said:


> Sounds like a PIC contract.  You keep Bluegreen, buy the points indicated, pay maintance fees to Wyndham for the new purchase and pay maintance fees as you have been doing to Bluegreen.  Every year, for a small fee, you can get the Bluegreen week converted to Wyndham points.  Not a bad deal if you want Wyndham VIP status.  The Wyndham points could be used anywhere in the Wyndham Vacation Resorts system.
> 
> P.S.  *The Mrytle Beach Wyndhams for the most part are on the Ocean and the locations far exceed the Blue Green property that is across the stree*t.



Bluegreen has 4 resorts in Myrtle Beach, Harbor Light is on the Intercoastal Waterway, Carolina Grand is across the street from the Ocean and Seaglass Tower and Shorecrest Vacation Villas are directly on the ocean.

You can do the same with Bluegreen - keep your Wyndham (or other) ownership and AIM the weeks - pay a small fee each year to convert your other TSs into Bluegreen Points that can be used anywhere in the system.

They really have a lot in common except for Wyndhams run-away fees


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## Gophesjo (Feb 15, 2012)

When you PIC or AIM your units, do you then get the use of both your non-W or non-BG units as well as the points usage?  If you do also get the points usage, I assume you are paying W or BG the related maintenance fees for those points.  Is this correct?  Thank you,


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