# The Seapointer Saga Continues . . .



## susan1738 (Feb 19, 2008)

Well, since we were supposed to "close the deal" by the end of January, and it is mid-February, I decided to write Karen another email.  She responded that they are still awaiting the funding, and it looks like it may take another MONTH!  

She did say that some of the other "deals" are starting to close now, so it shouldn't be too much longer.  Other "deals"???  Other timeshares being bought by the same company, or what?  She really wasn't very specific, so I'm not exactly sure what she meant by that.  

That's all I know . . .


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## Sandy (Mar 4, 2008)

I just noticed my paperwork, dated October 8, 2007.  I have no check either. I will email Karen to find out what is going on and report back here.


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## Sandy (Mar 4, 2008)

*Karen's reply*

Here is Karen's reply:

Hi there,
At this point in time, sales that I did in September are still not transferred.  My first bunch that we did in August are coming through, thus about 6 months from date of sale.

thanks
Karen


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## drguy (Mar 5, 2008)

This email arrived today:

Hi there Guy,

Documents have been with the transferring company since end January; they are taking a bit longer than normal with transfers.  We follow up with them on a regular basis; weekly, in fact, but they seem to be taking on average about 4-6 months.  This buyer has bought 100+ weeks from us, and so far only 13 have been transferred.  Hope to have good news for you by the end of the month.

Thanks
Karen

Sounds like it will be a long time before payment will be made.
Guy


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## Sandy (Mar 8, 2008)

drguy said:


> Sounds like it will be a long time before payment will be made.
> Guy




Sure does!


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## Sandy (Mar 19, 2008)

*New reply came on Seaponiter*

This is what I received:

_Hi Mr/s ____,

Please find attached a checklist that the SA Reserve bank require in order for them to release monies into an international account.  It is so much easier for us when our clients have an SA account or more timeshare for us to pay proceeds towards their annual levies. 
If you have none of the aforementioned kindly assist us with a few of the checklist that is possible for you to do...ie, proof of money into your account when you purchased at the time. 
We will also liaise with First Resorts to supply us with the necessary. As s0on as we have what SA Reserve bank require we will forward the necessary and have the money released into your account.


Kind Regards
Allison Fredericks
TIMESHARE TRANSFER SERVICES_

Attached was some sort of checklist. Notice the grammatical errors on this letter.  Anyone get one of these?  If so, how did you respond? I am not sure just what they are asking me to do or how I should respond to this. 

Any suggestions?


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## grest (Mar 19, 2008)

Sandy said:


> This is what I received:
> 
> _Hi Mr/s ____,
> 
> ...



Not yet...makes you wonder if they are just going to take our weeks and leave us with egg on our face...
Connie


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## drguy (Mar 22, 2008)

Sandy said:


> This is what I received:
> 
> _Hi Mr/s ____,
> 
> ...



Did you ask if they could/would use PayPal?  It would cost you a little bit, but it works internationally and you'd get your money if they won't send a check.  I may ask for that if they send me a similar request.
You can also set up an account on www.xe.com to have them wire you the money directly to your bank account.  We use that to send money to my in-laws in Slovakia.
Guy


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## grest (Mar 22, 2008)

What do you think they would do if we all just wrote to them saying that we decided since it was taking so long we would like our weeks back?  Teehee...
Connie


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## drguy (Apr 1, 2008)

I emailed Karen today and asked for all of my documents to be returned if the transaction is not complete by April 15, 2008.  We'll see what happens.
Guy


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## grest (Apr 2, 2008)

Thanks, Guy...I was thinking the same thing.  Please keep us posted.
Connie


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## Diane (Apr 2, 2008)

For what it is worth, according to Nicky the proceeds of our Seapointer sale were paid out on March 6 according to what we specified in our contract, that is, to satisfy certain South African levys.  We mailed our completed contract documents on October 2, 2007.   We don't yet have levy statements reflecting the payments, but it is probably too soon for that.

Diane


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## drguy (Apr 2, 2008)

drguy said:


> I emailed Karen today and asked for all of my documents to be returned if the transaction is not complete by April 15, 2008.  We'll see what happens.
> Guy



The Response:

Mr Hanson, thank you for your email.

From the beginning I advised you that this is a bulk purchaser that purchases more than 100 weeks from us at a time; and that transfer takes much longer than normal.
From our side, I confirmed the sale with you on 27 November, forwarded documents to you on 30 November.  Your documents were received on the 3rd of January and forwarded to the buyer's transferring department on 7 January.  They go through a process of verifying stock, processing the stock through the South African Revenue Services; and then forwarding it to First Resorts Management Services to process the transfer.

My colleagues, Allison and Marlize, follow up with this buyer every second day and request updates.  Each time you have emailed me, I have responded within 
24 hours.  We've done about 50 sales of just Seapointer weeks since November for this buyer, not regarding all the other resorts they have purchased; and 24 of these 50 sales have been transferred.  Thus I have every certainty that your transfer will be confirmed, but as you can see from above, we cannot advise of a date.

Should you wish to cancel the sale, that is entirely up to you.  I have copied Marlize on this email to see if she can try and get any further update on your transfer; and will advise you accordingly.

Regards
Karen


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## grest (Apr 3, 2008)

Hold the phone everyone!  I got an email from Marlize at Cape Escapes today to tell me that the transfer is complete, and to ask what levy account I wanted the funds sent.  What do you know!!!
Connie


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## kiyotaka (Apr 4, 2008)

When did you send the necessary documentation & how much did you get (what is your week)?  I sent the documentation 2 wks ago and haven't yet received any acknowledgment.


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## Carolinian (Apr 4, 2008)

The part about the bulk buyer - Bullfrog Lamont's operation - buying up weeks at other resorts is scary.  I wonder what other ones he is planning to crash, and if they are just ones managed by his First Resorts operation, or if the threat also extends to resorts beyond those.




drguy said:


> The Response:
> 
> Mr Hanson, thank you for your email.
> 
> ...


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## Sandy (Apr 4, 2008)

grest said:


> Hold the phone everyone!  I got an email from Marlize at Cape Escapes today to tell me that the transfer is complete, and to ask what levy account I wanted the funds sent.  What do you know!!!
> Connie



ALISON WROTE THE THE SALE IS READY TO BE COMPLETED: 


Please find attached a checklist that the SA Reserve bank require in order for them to release monies into an international account.  It is so much easier for us when our clients have an SA account or more timeshare for us to pay proceeds towards their annual levies. 
If you have none of the aforementioned kindly assist us with a few of the checklist that is possible for you to do...ie, proof of money into your account when you purchased at the time. 
We will also liaise with First Resorts to supply us with the necessary. As s0on as we have what SA Reserve bank require we will forward the necessary and have the money released into your account.


Kind Regards
Allison Fredericks

THEN I ASKED WHY THEY NEEDED PROOF (WHICH I CANNOT LOCATE) OF FUNDS PAID, SHE REPLIED: 

All I basically need is a copy of the bank statement of the of the transaction when the timeshare was purchased. That we can handover as proof to the SA Reserve bank.  

Thanks Allison
 THEN I ASKED WHY THEY WON'T JUST DEPOSIT THE FUNDS INTO MY BANK OR USE PAYPAL. SHE REPLIED:

No sorry Paypal, wont work we do not have that facility in SA.  Who did you buy the Timeshare from.? It would work if you could ask them for proof to show that your money was paid into their account at the time.  I know This sounds all very complicated but unfortunately there is no other way. We tried to get around this but ultimately the SA Reserve bank still has the last say.

Regards...Allison

So, my question is why then cannot forward the money to me? If we cannot locate the original docs, and Allison has proof that we are the owners, then what else need we do?

thanks!


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## guitarlars (Apr 4, 2008)

*SA Government is your problem*

Your difficulty is caused by the SA government - there are strict currency controls in place which are intended to make it difficult to move currency out of the country.

SA is not unique in this regard, but it appears that in order to move money out of SA you will need to establish that you put money in. We have a lot of international transactions and you must absolutely follow the letter of the law if you want to have any hope of getting cash out.

The penaltys for transferring funds without the proper documentation are probably pretty severe, so I suspect that you can't get them to just transfer money into your account, unless that account is at a band in South Africa.

I suspect that you are not being misled and that they really need this in order to get the cash transferred.

Lars


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## Diane (Apr 4, 2008)

All that may be necessary to move money out of SA, but in my situation it took five full months to move the proceeds of the sale of a Seaspointer week to pay the 2007 levy for that same Seapointer week.  Further, only when Seapointer staff emailed Cape Escapes over three weeks later and asked whether that had been done, could Seapointer staff confirm to me that it had in fact been done.  


Diane


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## grest (Apr 4, 2008)

kiyotaka said:


> When did you send the necessary documentation & how much did you get (what is your week)?  I sent the documentation 2 wks ago and haven't yet received any acknowledgment.



Started the process in November. Week 16, red, 2br for R4000.  I'll be glad when it's all done!
Connie


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## Sandy (Apr 6, 2008)

guitarlars said:


> Your difficulty is caused by the SA government - there are strict currency controls in place which are intended to make it difficult to move currency out of the country.
> 
> SA is not unique in this regard, but it appears that in order to move money out of SA you will need to establish that you put money in. We have a lot of international transactions and you must absolutely follow the letter of the law if you want to have any hope of getting cash out.
> 
> ...




Thanks Lars, 

Do you have any other advise? I cannot use Paypal, I tried xe.com and that didn't work. So, which bank does business in South Africa that I can easily access here in the US?  Maybe CitiGroup?  

Any suggestions are appreciated.


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## guitarlars (Apr 7, 2008)

*Bank account in SA*

Sandy:

It would be rar easier to provide the requested documentation if you have it available. Opening an account in SA is probably not going to be a workable solution. Citi or B of A have correspondent banking relations with banks within SA, but opening one would be challenging. I'm not sure what the requirements  would be to open an account, but without a physical presence it is typically very hard to do (except perhaps the Caymans).

Even if you had a bank account this does not mean you could then transfer funds freely. The government has currency control requirements and these have to be satisfied before money can be transferred out of the country.

I know of companies with cash "trapped" in Nigeria for years, I doubt SA is anywhere as difficult, but it can be a real challenge anytime you try to get money out of a currency control country.

In order to get your money out you are going to have to have some way to prove the money went into SA. This is one reason that I won't be buying any more SA timeshares (unless I'm willing to walk away), it's just too hard to get your money back even if you do manage to sell.

Too late now, but another alternative would have been to have sold to someone outside of SA and never have cash go into SA, but this wouldn't have worked with the Seapointer as no one would want these weeks if the understood what the management company was up to and that they could no longer trade. I have used Cape Escapes to sell my Seapointer weeks but am having the funds applied against the levy's for future years on two Sudwalla weeks I own in SA.

Lars


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## drguy (Apr 7, 2008)

Lars-
IF my sale is ever completed, is it possible to have the funds donated to a charity that is based in the US but is putting in wells in SA?  
Thanks.
Guy


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## london (Apr 7, 2008)

*Selling South African Timeshares*

Sounds like selling SA timeshares can be a long and tedious process.

Based on the posts read, I would be hesitant to purchase a week in South Africa.

Good luck to all the sellers.


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## guitarlars (Apr 7, 2008)

*SA Charity could work - check with the broker*

If you wish to contribute to a charity that has operations in SA it is probably doable, provided the broker is willing to cooperate.  I would think that a simple authorization would do the trick, but check with the broker to see what they need in order to do this. 

This assumes that the charity can accept the money into its SA account directly. If the charity has to receive the cash into a non-SA bank account you are trapped in the same loop - but since they are bringing cash into the country perhaps they would have a vehicle to accomplish this. 

To the degree that the charity has a physical presence in SA they should have a much easier time dealing with this issue. You will want to be sure to follow up with your charity to make sure the monies find their way to them, of course.

As to the comment about the SA timeshares, many of us have had great results for not much investment for a number of years. It is hard to sell ANY timeshare, not just SA - that's just the way it is, much easier to get one than get rid of one.

I might buy again in SA provided the deal was sufficiently compelling (and if I didn't have more timeshares than weeks of vacation) - that would mean a quality properly in a desireable location with reasonable levys. They clearly do exist in SA and it is a popular destination both within SA and from Europe, so I see nothing wrong with investing PROVIDED you would be willing to walk away from the timeshare if something went wrong.

I received five years of great trades from my two Seapointer weeks and would still be getting those trades if not for the activities of management designed to steal the place from the owners. I was fully prepared to walk away since I had received far more value than I could have hoped.

If I lived in SA I would be using the courts to pursue the crooks running the place, but since I don't I decided to sell instead. I'm sure thats exactly what they expected would happen, but there is no sense in tilting at windmills. I can only hope that they fail miserably in whatever scheme they have in mind.

Just do appropriate due diligence, with the management being a very important issue, on any timeshare no matter where located. Sudwalla is well managed and it is clear they care about the property. I get reasonable value for my levys (i.e. decent trades). Seapointer was poorly managed because they wanted to lose their RCI trading rights so that the owners would give them back to the management company. I see complaints about Wyndham, Grupo Mayan, etc. so bad management isn't unique to SA (although Lamont & associated companies are by far the worst).

Lars


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## herindoors911 (Apr 7, 2008)

drguy said:


> Lars-
> IF my sale is ever completed, is it possible to have the funds donated to a charity that is based in the US but is putting in wells in SA?
> Thanks.
> Guy





Guy -- I know a Canadian Charity that is putting in wells in Ethiopia, but I guess you are looking for $$ that can go from one account to another in the same currency.  But, the charity is called Hope International.   There is an government agency here that matches each donation too?   Would that help?

My nephew and his fiance have also completed a 6 month stint at Bobbi Bear and Agape in SA.  They raised 10,000E to help them out, and put their careers on hold.  This organization helps children in crisis who have been abused, and need a safe haven, etc.    Counselling, etc., is provided.   One male child they dealt with had been sexually abused by a police officer.    I can send you some links at wmowners if you want.

Let me know if this would be of interest too?     Anyeone else? 

Off to The Grand on Wed.      

perl


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## drguy (Apr 8, 2008)

Thanks.  I have a friend whoes wife has a charity that takes high school age kids to SA 2-3 times/year and has ongoing well development.  I thought that a small donation of a few hundred dollars would be helpful on the local level over there.
I'll have to check out my options if the sale goes through.  They have my original ownership certificate, so that may be all that it takes.
Guy


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## drguy (Apr 10, 2008)

*Latest Email*

Hi there Guy,  we've received a new update this week; and your week has been through the stock loading process, and has been submitted to the South African Revenue Services.  They are known to take about 3 weeks; then the documents will be forwarded to First Resorts to confirm transfer. I know this is not good news, as it seems that we're going to wait for at least another month, but hopefully we can hurry them along a bit.

Please let me know what you'd like to do from here on.

Many thanks
Karen


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## king1 (May 26, 2008)

duplicate post


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## drguy (Aug 27, 2008)

*Finished*

The funds for my week were deposited into my credit card account today.  The saga is finally over.
Guy


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## susan1738 (Sep 7, 2008)

*Me Too!*

I almost can't believe it, but my Seapointer Saga is now  . . . at least partially, over.  The funds were credited toward my Sodwana Bay levies, so I'm excited!!  Eventhough, NOW Seapointer can trade again, I'm a little sad/glad to be rid of it.  It was such a hassle, that I'm glad it is now over.  But the sad part is, I really enjoyed trading with it.  So it goes.  

The reason I say it is "partially over" is they neglected to credit my account with the maintenance fees that I already paid, so they are now working on that part.  So it is only partially over, but the big portion is done.


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## hajjah (Oct 17, 2008)

Sandy, or anyone else selling/sold their Seapointer:  What was the final outcome?  Did you actually receive your money?  My colleague just received an email today stating that the transfer is complete and she cannot cancel the sale.  I don't think that she has the documents they are asking for at this time.  The week was purchased from Herb several years ago.  Can you shed any light on this?

Thanks.


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## drguy (Oct 18, 2008)

I sent them everything that I had when I started the process.  Eventually, they found the original salesperson/company to confirm that it was sold in South Africa.  My payment was a credit on one of my Visa cards as Visa is an international banking company.
Guy


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## grest (Oct 19, 2008)

hajjah said:


> Sandy, or anyone else selling/sold their Seapointer:  What was the final outcome?  Did you actually receive your money?  My colleague just received an email today stating that the transfer is complete and she cannot cancel the sale.  I don't think that she has the documents they are asking for at this time.  The week was purchased from Herb several years ago.  Can you shed any light on this?
> 
> Thanks.



The money from the sale of my unit was sent to one of the other SA resorts I own toward future payment of maintenance fees.
Connie


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## hajjah (Oct 20, 2008)

Thanks so much for the updates.  My colleague is still looking for her paperwork.  Hopefully, she will be able to put this all behind her.  The process takes entirely too long.


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