# Purchase resale from Owners Association



## pacman777 (Oct 13, 2014)

I just got an email notice from WKV owners association. Just curious to see what these "resales" typically go for compared to individual resales?  Especially the popular Platinum Premium 1BR 81K SOs and the 2BRLO 148.1k SOs. Anyone have experience with these?  The site doesn't open until Oct 16. Just wondering if it's even worth checking out. 

Dear Westin Kierland Villas Owner,

We are pleased to announce an Owner resale program that will allow Owners like you the ability to purchase Association-owned Vacation Ownership Interest (VOI) weeks at a substantially reduced cost.

The Association now owns approximately 122 VOI weeks as a result of Owners failing to pay their maintenance fees over the years. The Owners have been denied the use of accommodations at the resort and their VOI weeks have either been foreclosed or offered a deed in lieu of foreclosure.

If you are interested in purchasing an Association-owned VOI week, please follow these steps:


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## DeniseM (Oct 13, 2014)

The price will be somewhere between resale, and full retail.

IMNSHO, these resale offers are more valuable at the voluntary resorts, because owners can get the Staroptions, for less than retail.  

But since you can buy this resort on the resale market, AND get Staroptions, not so much.


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## tomandrobin (Oct 13, 2014)

got the email too........


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## suzannesimon (Oct 13, 2014)

My daughter bought an HRA foreclosure thru an agent this year.  It was the same price that I had just paid on a non-foreclosure.  What she got that I didn't, however, was that she received the 2014 Star Options but she didn't have to pay 2014 maintenance fees.


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## cubigbird (Oct 13, 2014)

They must also be looking to recoup some of their asset back now - 50% down required.


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## pacman777 (Oct 13, 2014)

Just some other terms included in the email:

- VOI weeks offered by the Association will be automatically enrolled in Starwood Vacation Network (SVN).

- VOI weeks offered by the Association do not count toward SVN Elite status and may not participate in the Starwood Preferred Guest® program (converting StarOptions to Starpoints®). The Elite and SPG® conversion programs are funded by the Developer and are not available for this Association resale program.

- The offer is limited to VOI weeks owned by this Association. The Association is not offering to take back any VOI weeks. This is an offer to resell VOI weeks already owned by the Association.


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## cubigbird (Oct 13, 2014)

pacman777 said:


> Just some other terms included in the email:
> 
> - VOI weeks offered by the Association will be automatically enrolled in Starwood Vacation Network (SVN).
> 
> ...



As Denise said above and I agree, I don't see much value here as the same can be had for much less, even on Ebay.  No new benefits really.  I'd love to own another WKV week, especially EOY odd to go with my EOY even week but why pay a higher price for the same usage value???  No thanks.  If WKV were voluntary, which it is not, there'd be more value.  I'm curious as to what asking $$ these will go for. :rofl:


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## tomandrobin (Oct 14, 2014)

Before saying no to the deal, I would see what the pricing is for the weeks.


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## DeniseM (Oct 14, 2014)

tomandrobin said:


> Before saying no to the deal, I would see what the pricing is for the weeks.



Absolutely - but at all of the other association sales, the price has been significantly higher than the resale market.


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## tschwa2 (Oct 14, 2014)

...and they usually have very few if any platinum plus weeks 148,100/81,000.


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## DavidnRobin (Oct 14, 2014)

The HOA is not really offering anything more than buying resale - so unless their prices are similar to resale prices - I see zero advantage.

The prices have not been posted for the WKV HOA sale.


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## jeff01 (Oct 14, 2014)

At the owners resale last month for SPB-Palmetto the pricing was way more aggressive than in the past.  I picked up a Platinum 1 Bedroom unit for $1,500, at the sale prior that same unit was $2,500.  While I know it will have zero resale value I primarily bought it to use/trade the week myself.  Using fuzzy timeshare math, because my other units were Mandatory or developer purchased I felt it was worth the $1,500 to get the flexibility of the StarOptions and be able to add it to my Starwood Interval Account.   

Since the Platinum+ units at WKV do have considerable value, if there are any available and the price is right does anyone have any thoughts about purchasing with the intent to resell?   What is a realistic going rate for the Platinum+ units?


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## DeniseM (Oct 14, 2014)

> Since the Platinum+ units at WKV do have considerable value, if there are any available and the price is right does anyone have any thoughts about purchasing with the intent to resell?


The association is going to sell their weeks for a lot more than the regular resale value, so I don't see that happening.


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## DavidnRobin (Oct 14, 2014)

jeff01 said:


> At the owners resale last month for SPB-Palmetto the pricing was way more aggressive than in the past.  I picked up a Platinum 1 Bedroom unit for $1,500, at the sale prior that same unit was $2,500.  While I know it will have zero resale value I primarily bought it to use/trade the week myself.  Using fuzzy timeshare math, because my other units were Mandatory or developer purchased I felt it was worth the $1,500 to get the flexibility of the StarOptions and be able to add it to my Starwood Interval Account.
> 
> Since the Platinum+ units at WKV do have considerable value, if there are any available and the price is right does anyone have any thoughts about purchasing with the intent to resell?   What is a realistic going rate for the Platinum+ units?



Except WKV already comes with SOs with resale - unlike SBP.  So that part of the fuzzy math equation is nil.


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## gtm2011 (Oct 15, 2014)

In the past, when has the pricing for the available weeks been posted?  Is it posted at the same time the weeks are listed for sale, so 12:00 PM EST?
Thanks


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## jeff01 (Oct 15, 2014)

gtm2011 said:


> In the past, when has the pricing for the available weeks been posted?  Is it posted at the same time the weeks are listed for sale, so 12:00 PM EST?
> Thanks



Yes, at the past few resale’s for other properties they post the list at the time the sale begins.  A while ago when they first started doing these resale's they would post the list in advance but now they will not release it until the sale actually starts.


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## gtm2011 (Oct 15, 2014)

jeff01 said:


> Yes, at the past few resale’s for other properties they post the list at the time the sale begins.  A while ago when they first started doing these resale's they would post the list in advance but now they will not release it until the sale actually starts.



Thanks Jeff!


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## DavidnRobin (Oct 16, 2014)

I see no listing of available WKV weeks on MSC.
They said 12PM EST on Oct16 - am I missing something?


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## gtm2011 (Oct 16, 2014)

DavidnRobin said:


> I see no listing of available WKV weeks on MSC.
> They said 12PM EST on Oct16 - am I missing something?



I don't see any either!


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## gtm2011 (Oct 16, 2014)

I just got an email:

We are experiencing website difficulties.

Sincerely,
 Scottsdale Sonoran Villas Vacation Owners Association
 Board of Directors


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## tomandrobin (Oct 16, 2014)

Not seeing anything either.


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## DavidnRobin (Oct 16, 2014)

gtm2011 said:


> I just got an email:
> 
> We are experiencing website difficulties.
> 
> ...



No email either...


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## Mauiwmn (Oct 16, 2014)

I just received this response after my second email....

There is an emergency call in to fix it.  We will send emails to all those who have inquired as soon as it is up and running.

Sincerely,
Scottsdale Sonoran Villas
Vacation Owners Association Board of
Directors


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## DavidnRobin (Oct 16, 2014)

"Emails to those who inquired" ?
What email address was used to inquire?


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## Mauiwmn (Oct 16, 2014)

DavidnRobin said:


> "Emails to those who inquired" ?
> What email address was used to inquire?



It is at bottom of email they sent.

Should you have any questions regarding this information, and for the fastest response time, please email us at 00SVO-resaleoffer@starwoodvo.com.


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## Negma (Oct 16, 2014)

Between this and waiting for the new Ipad announcements it has been a very unproductive morning.


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## pacman777 (Oct 16, 2014)

The prices they post better be worth my time sitting here wasting my time hitting refresh.


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## tomandrobin (Oct 16, 2014)

Mauiwmn said:


> There is an emergency call in to fix it.  We will send emails to all those who have inquired as soon as it is up and running.



Good luck with that......Its lunch time! 

Better chance getting the Geek Squad over to fix it.


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## Mauiwmn (Oct 16, 2014)

Are any of us surprised that SVO would have technical troubles?


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## DavidnRobin (Oct 16, 2014)

Maybe they should have put listing up prior to accepting requests?


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## tomandrobin (Oct 16, 2014)

DavidnRobin said:


> Maybe they should have put listing up prior to accepting requests?



Like a preview? 

That makes too much sense.


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## tomandrobin (Oct 16, 2014)

Good news.....Its after 1pm, IT guys should be back from Five Guys now.


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## Mauiwmn (Oct 16, 2014)

Just got this :

We do apologize for the technical difficulties in activating this Kierland resale offer on MyStarCentral.  Since the starting time was supposed to be 12 noon eastern time today, we are going to reschedule the offer.  Please look for emails letting all owners know the reschedule time.


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## tomandrobin (Oct 16, 2014)

Mauiwmn said:


> Just got this :
> 
> We do apologize for the technical difficulties in activating this Kierland resale offer on MyStarCentral.  Since the starting time was supposed to be 12 noon eastern time today, we are going to reschedule the offer.  Please look for emails letting all owners know the reschedule time.



Still waiting for my first email about the outage.....and I did inquire a few days ago.


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## saluki (Oct 16, 2014)

This is too funny. Where's Nodge when you need him?!?


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## DavidnRobin (Oct 16, 2014)

tomandrobin said:


> Like a preview?
> 
> That makes too much sense.



No sh*t - it would have been easier to pre-list them - and then make them available for purchase at a stated date-time.  There is no advantage to doing otherwise - and the disadvantage is just like what happened…

clowns apparently are running the circus...


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## Ken555 (Oct 16, 2014)

I haven't received any of the earlier emails but did just receive this one.



> Scottsdale Sonoran Villas Vacation Owners Association
> October 16, 2014
> 
> Dear Westin Kierland Villas Owner,
> ...




Sent from my iPad


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## tomandrobin (Oct 16, 2014)

Didn't receive any emails about the postponement until after 6pm (EST) and then I got four of them.


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## cubigbird (Oct 16, 2014)

DavidnRobin said:


> No sh*t - it would have been easier to pre-list them - and then make them available for purchase at a stated date-time.  There is no advantage to doing otherwise - and the disadvantage is just like what happened…
> 
> clowns apparently are running the circus...



No clowns, just all those who worked for Facebook IPO now work for SVO haha


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## tomandrobin (Oct 22, 2014)

They must have broke it good.....

You would think the fix would only take a day or two.


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## okwiater (Oct 23, 2014)

tomandrobin said:


> They must have broke it good.....
> 
> You would think the fix would only take a day or two.


Maybe the "fix" was that they sold the weeks to Starwood! I was just recently offered (and purchased) a WKV Plat Plus lockoff from Direct Sales to requal one of my resale weeks.


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## DavidnRobin (Oct 23, 2014)

What did SVO Sales put as the purchase price for 148.1K SOs WKV?


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## cubigbird (Oct 23, 2014)

okwiater said:


> Maybe the "fix" was that they sold the weeks to Starwood! I was just recently offered (and purchased) a WKV Plat Plus lockoff from Direct Sales to requal one of my resale weeks.



Still nothing is listed in MSC.  Also, how did you get a hold of 148,100 Plat at WKV?  I have been in touch with sales and they keep telling me nothing available.  Literally, "NOTHING is available."  Maybe they don't want to waste their time with me?? :rofl: I am sure they are referring to different inventory than HOA owned weeks.  Not looking to make a developer purchase either but I would like to see what's available through the HOA owned weeks.


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## okwiater (Oct 24, 2014)

cubigbird said:


> Also, how did you get a hold of 148,100 Plat at WKV?  I have been in touch with sales and they keep telling me nothing available.  Literally, "NOTHING is available."  Maybe they don't want to waste their time with me?? :rofl:



I had been discussing my requal path with Direct Sales and the deal they offered me was rejected by the inventory department. (Basically they were unwilling to sell 2 even EOY deeds for the same price as an annual -- it had to be an even and an odd). I didn't like any of their proposed alternatives, so I didn't end up purchasing anything. A few weeks later my salesperson e-mailed saying they had just gotten a WKV Plat Plus and I jumped on it. I would think that when they get these, they sell within a couple of hours, so you'd need a salesperson to alert you rather than relying on calling in to check inventory.


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## pacman777 (Oct 24, 2014)

Lets not have everybody calling into SVN sales and asking to get on a wait list which would cause the association to sell them to SVN at a low price and get marked up significantly


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## DavidnRobin (Oct 24, 2014)

It is SVO Sales.
These are VOIs from WKV HOA that are being sold - not from SVO Sales.  There are a couple ways SVO Sales can get these - very profitable for them.

Watch out for speculation stated like facts.

As an owner I am concerned about non-paying Owners as the HOA (us...) picks up the MFs resulting in an increase in MFs. So... I don't care who buys them.
It is the non-Plat weeks getting sold that the owners should pay attention to.  I would be happy if anyone picked these up.

As WKV is a M resort - not sure why would buy at premium via the HOA (w/o benefit), or SVO Sales (which comes with a higher Elite status and is a personal choice on value - which comes at a premium)

My WKV Plat+ resales have almost paid for themselves (w/o fuzzy math. meaning... strictly by rental)

WSJ-VGV was the 1st to do this (because of Bob and Phil thinking outside the box), and have already had 2 successful HOA sales.


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## Westnick (Nov 6, 2014)

Resale units went on sale today to previous owners. Prices look very reasonable.


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## okwiater (Nov 6, 2014)

For what resort? I don't see anything for WKV...


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## MarkSilver (Nov 6, 2014)

*Resale Inventory List for WKV*

This is what I am seeing.


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## okwiater (Nov 6, 2014)

MarkSilver said:


> This is what I am seeing.



Wow -- $10k for a 2br Plat Plus is a great price!


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## vacationtime1 (Nov 6, 2014)

okwiater said:


> Wow -- $10k for a 2br Plat Plus is a great price!



Lots of mis-pricing.  The two bedroom platinum units are listed for about 45% less than similar units on Redweek and MyResortNetwork and for a third less than recent closing prices on eBay (of which there are few).  The one bedroom platinum units are listed for about a third less than current prices.

The gold weeks are listed for a bit higher than the closing prices I have been seeing on eBay (and about 3x what I paid for mine two months ago on eBay).

If this is my HOA selling units, they are leaving my money on the table.  I really think whoever set these prices didn't to his/her homework (unless there are unpaid assessments or conditions on the units that don't show in the summary table).


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## cubigbird (Nov 6, 2014)

I don't see the WKV available weeks in my association under MSC.


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## Ken555 (Nov 6, 2014)

okwiater said:


> Wow -- $10k for a 2br Plat Plus is a great price!




Yup. I submitted an offer for one of these.


Sent from my iPad


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## tomandrobin (Nov 6, 2014)

Great price for the 2-bedroom platinum weeks.

If I was in the market, I would have bought one of those weeks.


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## tomandrobin (Nov 6, 2014)

cubigbird said:


> I don't see the WKV available weeks in my association under MSC.



Click on "your ownership information"

Click on the week at Kierland you own

On the right side will be a link that lists the weeks for sale.


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## tomandrobin (Nov 6, 2014)

vacationtime1 said:


> If this is my HOA selling units, they are leaving my money on the table.  I really think whoever set these prices didn't to his/her homework (unless there are unpaid assessments or conditions on the units that don't show in the summary table).



Not my perspective......That's less unpaid maintenance fees that I have to cover with my maintenance fees.


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## Westnick (Nov 6, 2014)

cubigbird said:


> I don't see the WKV available weeks in my association under MSC.



The site was only up for about 6 hours. Not sure what that means.


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## tomandrobin (Nov 6, 2014)

Westnick said:


> The site was only up for about 6 hours. Not sure what that means.



I just checked it a few minutes ago.


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## pacman777 (Nov 6, 2014)

No one pays anywhere close to the listed prices on Redweek. Thats why they are still showing as available. I can tell you I bought a 148.1k back in July for a little bit more than the $10k offered in this sale. You just have to haggle with the sellers.


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## PamMo (Nov 6, 2014)

Wow. I would love to buy a Platinum WKV week for 10k. Respectfully, I don't believe that price is easily negotiated on RedWeek.


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## cubigbird (Nov 6, 2014)

tomandrobin said:


> Click on "your ownership information"
> 
> Click on the week at Kierland you own
> 
> On the right side will be a link that lists the weeks for sale.



Yeah it is definately not there.  Maybe it sold out.


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## zinger1457 (Nov 6, 2014)

Is there anything stopping one from purchasing one of these 2BR Plats for $10K then turning right around and sell it?  Could probably sell if for around $17K on the resale market, a nice little profit for little effort.


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## vacationtime1 (Nov 6, 2014)

zinger1457 said:


> Is there anything stopping one from purchasing one of these 2BR Plats for $10K then turning right around and sell it?  Could probably sell if for around $17K on the resale market, a nice little profit for little effort.



I agree on the profit potential; there is no ROFR on Kierland.  Of course, there would be a short-term capital gains tax.


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## oneohana (Nov 6, 2014)

cubigbird said:


> Yeah it is definately not there.  Maybe it sold out.



Mine has only shown up on time 1 time out of 5.

It's still not there for me either. Not like I need another TS.


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## okwiater (Nov 7, 2014)

tomandrobin said:


> Not my perspective......That's less unpaid maintenance fees that I have to cover with my maintenance fees.



By that logic, the HOA should give away the units.

My perspective is that when the HOA misprices the units, they negatively impact owners in 2 ways: (1) they skew the resale value of the units, at least in the short term, and (2) they collect less money, which translates to additional maintenance fees or reserves that must be paid by all owners.

Especially since a lot of this year's MF increase was due to "prior year deficit," it would be nice if they would try to clear that deficit by selling reacquired units for market value instead of unnecessarily leaving tens of thousands of dollars on the table.


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## DavidnRobin (Nov 7, 2014)

tomandrobin said:


> Click on "your ownership information"
> 
> Click on the week at Kierland you own
> 
> On the right side will be a link that lists the weeks for sale.



Added: retried - and now listings showed - weird...
Why would the HOA sell these Plat VOIs so far below resale values - they should know better - why sell a 2Bd Plat for $10K when they sell for >50% more?  As discussed before - why would SVO pick them up and resell for a nice $30K profit.  Clowns have taken over the circus...

On the topic of devaluation for Owners - there are only a relatively few of this VOIs and therefore dilution of price is not a concern. If I known these Plat would have been so much lower than resale prices - I would have made a point of checking when they came on-line (but in Copenhagen on business...)

Here is the listing...


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## okwiater (Nov 7, 2014)

DavidnRobin said:


> In Europe - never saw the listing, and not currently listed either.
> Really? A 2Bd Plat for $10K?  I would have jumped on that.  Anyone get a printout/photo of the listings that they can share?


Scroll up -- there's a PDF.

This was a completely botched association sale, though. Nevermind the prices, it seems like it was very inconsistent whether people could even see the link. I never received an e-mail about it either, and I own 2 WKV deeds.


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## DavidnRobin (Nov 7, 2014)

okwiater said:


> Scroll up -- there's a PDF.
> 
> This was a completely botched association sale, though. Nevermind the prices, it seems like it was very inconsistent whether people could even see the link. I never received an e-mail about it either, and I own 2 WKV deeds.



Thanks - missed it (jet-lag).  I cannot believe that they are so out of touch with pricing these - especially when resale prices are public info.  I put in orders for any of the Plat VOIs, but unfortunately probably too late as there are only 8 weeks EY, and 2 EOY weeks.
Somebody recently bought one of these from SVO sales for much (much) more.


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## cubigbird (Nov 7, 2014)

okwiater said:


> Scroll up -- there's a PDF.
> 
> This was a completely botched association sale, though. Nevermind the prices, it seems like it was very inconsistent whether people could even see the link. I never received an e-mail about it either, and I own 2 WKV deeds.



The link has never shown for me and I am definately in the right place (and I own a WKV week).  Oh well....I'll save the $$


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## LisaRex (Nov 7, 2014)

I'm glad to see that other SVO owners are given the opportunity to buy at such great prices. I agree that the prices are out of whack v market rate, but as long as the price is high enough to make the HOA whole on past MFs, I'm thrilled.  These fire sales are great, creative solutions to a problem, IMO.

P.S.  I'd love to see the HOA offer up unused weeks (because of locked-out owners) for RENT to current owners for the cost of MFs, or slightly above, as well.  Wouldn't it be great if the HOA was able to actually break even on deadbeat owners?


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## Ken555 (Nov 7, 2014)

DavidnRobin said:


> Added: retried - and now listings showed - weird...




I tried going back a few hours after submitting the first offer to request another and the link wasn't there. I had thought we might be limited to a single request, or perhaps they already received enough requests. Now it seems they definitely are having computer issues which limit our ability to submit offers, and that the submission process itself is flawed. Too bad I'm not an attorney since this is, at least to me, another obvious case of SVN trying and failing to do something that impacts existing owners which results in an unfair and unequal opportunity across all owners. Also, I am still waiting for the email announcing this sale. Had it not been for TUG I would not have known.


Sent from my iPad


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## SMHarman (Nov 7, 2014)

pacman777 said:


> No one pays anywhere close to the listed prices on Redweek. Thats why they are still showing as available. I can tell you I bought a 148.1k back in July for a little bit more than the $10k offered in this sale. You just have to haggle with the sellers.


True but after looking for 9 months I paid 16 for one. With 2 years of MF and points. If you got a little more than 10 you did great. 


PamMo said:


> Wow. I would love to buy a Platinum WKV week for 10k. Respectfully, I don't believe that price is easily negotiated on RedWeek.


I concur.


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## DavidnRobin (Nov 8, 2014)

Many have paid more than >$15K resale - and much, much more from SVO sales.
I put in offers for any of the Plat villas as the rentals are profitable - and excellent for SO use (especially using fuzzy math...)


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## cubigbird (Nov 8, 2014)

*Non Plat pricing??*

The link finally shows up for me - 2 days later.  

What are thoughts regarding the non platinum weeks pricing?    

I wouldn't mind an EOY odd gold but is the price too high?   We actually use WKV for the season we own and not trade so a gold week lines up with the weeks we would travel / need (buy where you want to go and when etc...)  The SO would be an added plus though...


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## grgs (Nov 8, 2014)

cubigbird said:


> The link finally shows up for me - 2 days later.
> 
> What are thoughts regarding the non platinum weeks pricing?
> 
> I wouldn't mind an EOY odd gold but is the price too high?   We actually use WKV for the season we own and not trade so a gold week lines up with the weeks we would travel / need (buy where you want to go and when etc...)  The SO would be an added plus though...



I haven't been good about keeping my spreadsheet completely up to date, but FWIW this is what I have for e-bay sales:

10/29/2007			2 bd	EOY	Gold	6402
12/19/2007			2 bd	EOY	Gold	6100
4/21/2008			2 bd	EOY	Gold	5300
11/11/2008			2 bd	EOY	Gold	5500
6/17/2009			2 bd 	EOY	Gold	4001
12/19/2009			2 bd	EOY	Gold	2150
12/21/2009			2 bd 	EOY	Gold	1802
4/7/2010			2 bd 	EOY	Gold	2550
6/28/2010			2 bd 	EOY	Gold	1876
7/6/2010			2 bd 	EOY	Gold	1535
7/12/2010			2 bd 	EOY	Gold	1650
1/20/2011			2 bd 	EOY	Gold	1224
5/18/2011			2 bd 	EOY	Gold	761
10/4/2011			2 bd	EOY	Gold	997
2/23/2012			2 bd	EOY	Gold	1339
2/11/2013			2 bd	EOY	Gold	960
2/15/2013			2 bd	EOY	Gold	995
2/20/2013			2 bd	EOY	Gold	1497
3/28/2013			2 bd	EOY	Gold	2247
8/5/2014			2 bd	EOY	Gold	995

$2000 seems high, but not awful.  I think there is some value in the ease of purchasing directly from Starwood/HOA--it should be a very smooth transaction.  I'm not sure how much that would be worth to you.

Glorian

P.S. I didn't see the price sheet for a couple of days, either.


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## DavidnRobin (Nov 11, 2014)

From SVO-WKV HOA:
(IMO - this clearly shows that they undervalued their Plat weeks, and Silver weeks have very little value yet pay same MFs)

*****
*Please be aware that there are currently extensive waiting lists for all the Platinum season weeks.*

As of this email we still have the following weeks available without a waiting list:

Villa Type- Annual 2 Bedroom Lockoff, for the Silver season at  Westin Kierland Villas.

Villa Type- Annual 1 Bedroom Premium, for the Silver season at  Westin Kierland Villas.

Villa Type- Annual 1 Bedroom, for the Gold season at  Westin Kierland Villas.

Villa Type- Even 1 Bedroom, for the Silver season at  Westin Kierland Villas.

Villa Type- Odd 1 Bedroom, for the Silver season at  Westin Kierland Villas.

These weeks are available first come/first served via the website.  Please submit your offers as instructed on the original offer letter.


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## pacman777 (Nov 11, 2014)

I got the same email. I should have been one of the first to request a 148.1k plat unit as I was online hitting refresh until the link came up and submitted the request within 5 seconds. Anyone actually get the paperwork to move forward on their purchase yet?


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## Watford (Nov 11, 2014)

So essentially the only ones left are Silver - and apart from the maintenance fees they are almost no cost. I guess they are only worth it if you want to go to the resort in the summer


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## Ken555 (Nov 11, 2014)

Same email here as well. Expected.


Sent from my iPad


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## DeniseM (Nov 11, 2014)

Watford said:


> So essentially the only ones left are Silver - and apart from the maintenance fees they are almost no cost. I guess they are only worth it if you want to go to the resort in the summer



They are worth far fewer Staroptions, but have the same maintenance fee as a Plat week, so not really a good value.


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## SMHarman (Nov 11, 2014)

Watford said:


> So essentially the only ones left are Silver - and apart from the maintenance fees they are almost no cost. I guess they are only worth it if you want to go to the resort in the summer


Not even. You can exchange in for less than MF.


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## vacationtime1 (Nov 12, 2014)

DeniseM said:


> They are worth far fewer Staroptions, but have the same maintenance fee as a Plat week, so not really a good value.





SMHarman said:


> Not even. You can exchange in for less than MF.



Cheaper yet:  WKV summer weeks are generally available as Interval Getaways for a few hundred dollars (and even less for a one bedroom unit).


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## Ken555 (Nov 12, 2014)

Well, they sold the gold weeks. As of this morning:



> As of this email we still have the following weeks available without a waiting list:
> 
> Villa Type- Annual 2 Bedroom Lockoff, for the Silver season at  Westin Kierland Villas.
> 
> ...


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## Ken555 (Nov 12, 2014)

FWIW, I am *still* waiting for the email from SVN about this sale. I'm an owner at WKV and was eligible to submit offers online, but have not received the info about the sale, when it was to start, etc. Even though I submitted an offer for a plat week immediately upon learning of it, that was likely several hours (or longer) after it was available to others and that was too late.

This was not a fair and equitable sale process for all owners. Isn't SVN held to some standard to be as fair as possible with such sales? They should be held accountable for their mismanagement of this process.


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## gtm2011 (Nov 12, 2014)

I submitted my offer/bid on the 2 BD Platinum's within the first five minutes of the sale and I just found out my waitlist number is in the 30's!


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## DeniseM (Nov 12, 2014)

I would not be the least surprised if there are some insider sales on these units...


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## Ken555 (Nov 12, 2014)

This process requires transparency.


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## DeniseM (Nov 12, 2014)

Ken555 said:


> This process requires transparency.



Starwood *≠* transparency


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## DavidnRobin (Nov 12, 2014)

Perhaps that is why they choose to underprice the Plat VOIs.
It would not be hard to find out who exactly ended up with these Plat VOIs.

*Hey Starwood/WKV HOA (if you are reading this…) - I would tread carefully here as WKV VOI sales are public information, and the HOA BOD is suppose to fairly and equally treat the HOA members.*

How about a write-in campaign insisting on clarity/transparency here?


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## DeniseM (Nov 12, 2014)

I'd like to know how many were purchased by sales weasels….


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## Ken555 (Nov 12, 2014)

Frankly, and given the starting bids, I don't know why they simply didn't sell them all on eBay. I believe that would be a fair method to permit all owners to have an opportunity to purchase the limited available weeks, and it would also likely sell at current market rates (so SVN wouldn't be accused of erroneously pricing these deeds), it could have been announced well in advance when these weeks would be listed, etc. 

I'm hopeful others on TUG were able to get some of these weeks, but I'm doubtful.


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## okwiater (Nov 12, 2014)

What about a silent auction of sorts? Instead of the HOA setting prices, let people select a week and enter their bid. Whoever offers the highest price within 7 days of posting gets the week.


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## DeniseM (Nov 12, 2014)

Still the same problem with transparency…


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## pacman777 (Nov 12, 2014)

gtm2011 said:


> I submitted my offer/bid on the 2 BD Platinum's within the first five minutes of the sale and I just found out my waitlist number is in the 30's!



I submitted my bid within 5 Seconds of it opening up. How did you find out what your wait list number is?


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## Ken555 (Nov 12, 2014)

pacman777 said:


> I submitted my bid within 5 Seconds of it opening up. How did you find out what your wait list number is?



How do you know when was first available? Given the issues with the website and notification, I'd be surprised if any of us know for certain.


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## DeniseM (Nov 12, 2014)

There was a published time when you could sign in and sign up.


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## DavidnRobin (Nov 12, 2014)

Ken555 said:


> How do you know when was first available? Given the issues with the website and notification, I'd be surprised if any of us know for certain.



Nov 6 - 12pm EST
(I was in Oslo on business and didn't get on MSC until the next day)


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## Watford (Nov 13, 2014)

This sale may be fair and equitable but from reading the above and from my own experience of not seeing the link on the association site until a week or so late i'm not so sure.

I think it would be appropriate to have an explanation of the sale process....who are the people we should contact...if many people send in emails it might (and i use might on purpose) result in some action.


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## DavidnRobin (Nov 13, 2014)

If enough WKV HOA members are affected (and care) - I think an email campaign has some value. However, I think the numbers here on TUG are quite small unless there are a bunch lurking and not contributing, and will do little in getting transparency.  However, I am happy to write an email - but too whom?

This comes down to a similar issue we had (have) with WSJ VGV that started the original WSJ thread - and that is transparency.  There is no way to force SVO, SVN, or any SVO-HOA into transparency because they control the votes.

This is what we signed up for - albeit most unwittingly….

there are times when I miss jarta...


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## SLC (Nov 14, 2014)

In reference to some being able to access the list of properties for sale and some not. I participated in a similar sale at a different resort and noticed I could only access the sale properties through my developer purchased property and NOT through my resale property. Could this be what is going on?


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## oneohana (Nov 14, 2014)

No, I tried both my developer and resale week.


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## okwiater (Nov 14, 2014)

Since Starwood owns some units, wouldn't they have access to the sale as well? I would assume they could decide to purchase them at below market value in this manner (a workaround for having no ROFR!).


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## DeniseM (Nov 14, 2014)

okwiater said:


> Since Starwood owns some units, wouldn't they have access to the sale as well? I would assume they could decide to purchase them at below market value in this manner (a workaround for having no ROFR!).



I don't know if Starwood would be so blatant at to buy them directly, but lots of timeshare sales people own SW timeshares, and I'm thinking they would had the inside track on buying these units.


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## vacationtime1 (Nov 14, 2014)

I don't see anything as nefarious or malevolent such as below-market sales favoring the sales staff or Starwood.  What I see is basic incompetence (mispricing units for $10K that are worth 75% more than that), poor communication (cancelled dates, inconsistent notices, etc.), and lack of transparency throughout.  

Yes, I am disappointed that Starwood (or its captive HOA Boards) did it wrong.  The HOA sold exactly three 2  bedroom platinum units and enough one bedroom platinum units to be the  equivalent of about three more.  The total: six platinum units  underpriced by about $7,500 each totals only $45,000.

I certainly don't intend to justify Starwood's errors here, but we're not talking about much money.


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## DeniseM (Nov 14, 2014)

It's not about the money:  The question is were owners (not SW and not Sales People) given the FIRST shot at these units?


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## vacationtime1 (Nov 14, 2014)

DeniseM said:


> It's not about the money:  The question is were owners (not SW and not Sales People) given the FIRST shot at these units?



We don't know who had first shot at the units -- and you have absolutely no basis to claim that the allocation was done improperly.

What we do know is that Starwood was not transparent and that Starwood (or its captive HOA's) did not maximize value for its HOA members.  

But neither of these last two things is either new or unique for Starwood.


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## DeniseM (Nov 14, 2014)

Robert - I didn't "claim" anything - I asked a QUESTION. 





> The *question* is were owners (not SW and not Sales People) given the FIRST shot at these units?


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## DavidnRobin (Nov 14, 2014)

We have Tuggers who claim that they got their request within seconds and minutes of eligibility (and they have zero reason to make a false claim) - and apparently did not request fast enough. While others had no chance at all due to very poor communication and general ineptness on the part of the BOD (IMO).

If I was them - I would seriously be pissed.  There was not only incompetence (on many levels) - but the potential for collusion - as there is zero transparency. Given the nature of 'honesty' in the TS biz - support of the WKV-HOA and SVO in this matter borders on jarta-ism…

I believe the WKV HOA BOD owes WKV Owners transparency in this process given that the Plat values were so much less than the current resale market - which would be easy to check since these resale purchase values are a matter of public record.


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## DeniseM (Nov 14, 2014)

Be careful Dave - "he-who-shall-not-be-named" still visits TUG.  

It would take some research at the county recording office, but would be interesting to see what names are on the deeds recorded from these purchases.


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## DavidnRobin (Nov 14, 2014)

DeniseM said:


> Be careful Dave - "he-who-shall-not-be-named" still visits TUG.



He knows how I feel - and have no issue with him being here as long as he improves on his BBS writing skills (e.g. less attacking and convoluting intent of others).  I have openly countered these when they have occurred with me.  And I have had drinks with the man.

Also - WKV VOIs have a common code in the Mariposa County Recorders Office, and can be searched given some research.


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## YYJMSP (Nov 14, 2014)

DavidnRobin said:


> And I have had drinks with the man.



Holy **** -- you and NaCl met and both survived???  

Must'a been some good single malt...


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## Watford (Nov 14, 2014)

I think what really matters here is that the someone/people who organized this sale give us a full accounting of both the process and pricing decision.

It may be perfectly valid in which case there is no reason not to be forthcoming


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## DavidnRobin (Nov 14, 2014)

YYJMSP said:


> Holy **** -- you and NaCl met and both survived???
> 
> Must'a been some good single malt...



Robin and I met w/ Jim and his wife while at WKORV, and had drinks and a very good conversation.  They even came up to see our OFD villa during sunset (iirc).
He is a nice guy and his wife is wonderful - he is a bit of a curmudgeon and make no apologies for this - but that is not atypical for someone his age (my Mom can be the same way at times) - thus 'Salty'.

I am just not the sort to back down when certain things I write are misconstrued, misrepresented, or taken out of context. So maybe the perception was that I did not like him as a person, but my objections (well-documented) was to his BBS style which I (and many apparently) found to be at issue.  He had a lot to add especially when it comes to a diverse and different opinion - which I actually appreciate - it was his style here that bothered me, and I countered as I found appropriate.

I have no 1st hand knowledge of why he is no longer on TUG - just speculation that his acerbic style at times rubbed too many people the wrong way, and counter to TUG policy.  There may be more (or less) than that - I do not know.


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## DavidnRobin (Nov 14, 2014)

Watford said:


> I think what really matters here is that the someone/people who organized this sale give us a full accounting of both the process and pricing decision.
> 
> It may be perfectly valid in which case there is no reason not to be forthcoming




^^^^ this ^^^^


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## gtm2011 (Nov 14, 2014)

DavidnRobin said:


> We have a Tugger who claims that they got their request within seconds of eligibility (and they have zero reason to make a false claim) - yet ended plus 30th on the waiting list…



David,
I believe you are referencing my waiting list post, but I said I submitted my request for the two bedroom platinum’s within the first five minutes of the sale.  Another poster talked about submitting their request within seconds, just so we are keeping everything in-sync and keeping the two posts separate.


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## DavidnRobin (Nov 14, 2014)

gtm2011 said:


> David,
> I believe you are referencing my waiting list post, but I said I submitted my request for the two bedroom platinum’s within the first five minutes of the sale.  Another poster talked about submitting their request within seconds, just so we are keeping everything in-sync and keeping the two posts separate.



Sorry (I corrected my post) - I did confuse them, but the issue remains.  I never got an email saying what my waiting list number - and others no notification at all - before or after.

As the WKV BOD is made up of SVO representatives directly and indirectly (as SVO controls who gets nominated/elected) - if I were on the WKV BOD (or SVO) I would make sure all my bases were covered when it comes to this sale.  All it takes is one person willing to do some sleuthing to expose IF anything was not on the up-and-up.


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## pacman777 (Nov 14, 2014)

gtm2011 said:


> David,
> I believe you are referencing my waiting list post, but I said I submitted my request for the two bedroom platinum’s within the first five minutes of the sale.  Another poster talked about submitting their request within seconds, just so we are keeping everything in-sync and keeping the two posts separate.



Yes I am the one that was hitting refresh until the link came up and went straight to submitting the bid without even thinking about the price. It must have all been done within 5 seconds. Yet I ended up on the wait list. Highly suspicious and indicates these platinum units were really never available. I'm not holding my breath of clearing the wait list. I was hoping to pick up some additional units at a good price for actual use (not for resale profit)


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## DavidnRobin (Nov 14, 2014)

pacman777 said:


> Yes I am the one that was hitting refresh until the link came up and went straight to submitting the bid without even thinking about the price. It must have all been done within 5 seconds. Yet I ended up on the wait list. Highly suspicious and indicates these platinum units were really never available. I'm not holding my breath of clearing the wait list. I was hoping to pick up some additional units at a good price for actual use (not for resale profit)



Where are you on waiting list?


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## cubigbird (Nov 14, 2014)

DavidnRobin said:


> Where are you on waiting list?



At least you even had a chance at a "waitlist."  The link didn't appear for me until 24 hours later even though I kept clicking and checking back.  I was never given a chance and thus was tagged "out" before I even "stepped up to the plate."  All seems suspicious to me.


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## Ken555 (Nov 20, 2014)

As of today:



> Thank you for your request for the indicated week
> 
> Villa Type- ODD 1 BEDROOM PREMIUM, for the PLATINUM season  at  Westin Kierland Villas Condominium.
> 
> ...




Sent from my iPad


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## DeniseM (Nov 20, 2014)

I  hope someone will comb through the new recordings at the County Records office in a couple mos. and see who got the Plat weeks….


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## DavidnRobin (Nov 20, 2014)

I got the exact same email - but not for the other Plats I put in a request for.
I guess they are doing them one at a time.


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## cubigbird (Nov 20, 2014)

*Silver weeks only*

How convenient, only silver weeks remain.  I agree, this was probably just a formality to "say" they offered the weeks to the public.  They were probably never actually "for sale"


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## millikentj (Nov 23, 2014)

DeniseM said:


> I  hope someone will comb through the new recordings at the County Records office in a couple mos. and see who got the Plat weeks….


I am pleased to report that we got one of the Platinum Premium One Bedroom units.  We just signed the paperwork.

We own a platinum 2 bedroom lock off and that is the only association we have with Starwood or the Association. We are not "insiders".  Just followed the rules.

We were on line continually refreshing the owner's page until the unit sales were posted and immediately submitted our request. Probably within the first 5-10 seconds.

It must be our lucky year because last month we were also able to exchange into a St John 3 BR at exactly 8 months out for occupancy in June, 2015.


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## Ken555 (Nov 23, 2014)

millikentj said:


> I am pleased to report that we got one of the Platinum Premium One Bedroom units.  We just signed the paperwork.
> 
> We own a platinum 2 bedroom lock off and that is the only association we have with Starwood or the Association. We are not "insiders".  Just followed the rules.
> 
> ...




Congrats! Thanks for reporting your success. Glad to hear a TUGger got one. 


Sent from my iPad


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## okwiater (Nov 23, 2014)

Glad to hear a TUGger got one of the platinum units. However, because the units were priced below market value, it's grossly unfair for Starwood not to have notified everyone of the sale. It's something that needs to be explained and convincingly remediated before they attempt another future sale.


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## DavidnRobin (Nov 23, 2014)

millikentj said:


> I am pleased to report that we got one of the Platinum Premium One Bedroom units.  We just signed the paperwork.
> 
> We own a platinum 2 bedroom lock off and that is the only association we have with Starwood or the Association. We are not "insiders".  Just followed the rules.
> 
> ...



Congrats - also glad to hear a Tugger got one - seems more legit.
it appears that the HOA doesn't understand the value of the Plat weeks.   IMO


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