# Jet Blue airline stuck on runway



## cmdmfr (Feb 15, 2007)

WASHINGTON - After being stuck for 11 hours on a parked airplane during a snow and ice storm, JetBlue passengers found out there's nothing they can do about it. There are no government regulations limiting the time an airline can keep passengers on grounded aircraft.

The airlines' voluntary code of conduct simply says that during such extraordinary delays, they will make "reasonable efforts" to meet passenger needs for food, water, restroom facilities and medical assistance.

Airlines have blocked attempts to set minimum legal standards for customer service by agreeing to a voluntary code of conduct that they have not always followed.

On Wednesday, hundreds of JetBlue passengers were stuck for as long as 11 hours in parked jets at John F. Kennedy International Airport during the winter storm.

Sean Corrinet of Salem, Mass., spent almost nine hours aboard a JetBlue flight for Cancun, Mexico, that never got off the ground.

"It was like _ what's the name of that prison in Vietnam where they held McCain? The Hanoi Hilton," Corrinet said, referring to Sen. John McCain, R-Ariz.

He said the crew passed out bags of chips _ the only food available _ and periodically cracked the hatch to let in fresh, cool air.

The airline acknowledged that it hesitated nearly five hours before calling for a fleet of buses to unload at least seven jets that spent the day sitting on runways because of the weather and congestion at the gates.

A similar incident happened on Dec. 30, when American Airlines and American Eagle diverted 121 flights found for Dallas to other cities because of thunderstorms. About 5,000 passengers were left sitting on parked aircraft, some for eight hours.

The Dec. 30 incidents prompted American to say it would put a four-hour limit on how long passengers would be kept on grounded planes.

In the late 1990s, the nation's 14 largest airlines joined forces to block a drive by Congress to enact legal protections for passengers, changes that were sought after a series of flight cancellations and delays.

Instead, the airlines agreed to an Airline Customer Service Commitment and incorporated it in their customer agreements, called "conditions of carriage," which are legally enforceable by the customer against the airline.

The airlines said they would notify customers of delays and diversions, try to deliver baggage on time, refund tickets promptly and meet customers' essential needs when they were stuck on parked airplanes.

The airlines, though, didn't agree to limit the amount of time they could keep people inside airplanes that aren't going anywhere.

By February 2001, the airlines were improving their customer service, according to a review by the Transportation Department's inspector general.

A short time later, the airline industry lost record amounts of money. Some sought bankruptcy protection following the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks, the severe acute respiratory syndrome, or SARS, epidemic, the war in Iraq and rising fuel prices.

By November 2006, customer service had slipped at many airlines, according to Transportation Department Inspector General Calvin Scovell. Many airlines dropped their programs to control quality and measure performance, Scovell reported.

Rep. James Oberstar, D-Minn., chairman of the House Transportation Committee, blamed the Transportation Department for failing to enforce the customer service standards agreed to in 1999.

In the case of JetBlue, Oberstar said the airline didn't have a plan to manage an extreme circumstance.

"The airline can't say, 'We didn't know, we didn't anticipate, this didn't happen before,'" Oberstar said.

Sen. Barbara Boxer, D-Calif., said Thursday she will introduce a bill to give passengers the right to get off the airplane if it's been on the ground for more than three hours past its scheduled departure time


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## mattman27 (Feb 15, 2007)

Sean Corrinet of Salem, Mass., spent almost nine hours aboard a JetBlue flight for Cancun, Mexico, that never got off the ground.

"It was like _ what's the name of that prison in Vietnam where they held McCain? The Hanoi Hilton," Corrinet said, referring to Sen. John McCain, R-Ariz.


OK. As an officer in the Air Force that Sean Corrinet should be embarrassed. Give me a break. I'm sure being a POW was much worse than spending some time on an airplane ON YOUR WAY TO CANCUN!!!! Come on! I don't think they gave out chips in Vietnam. 

Please correct me if I'm wrong.


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## ricoba (Feb 15, 2007)

I agree that comparing being stuck on the plane was not the Hanoi Hilton, but it sure had to be dang miserable on board.


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## cluemeister (Feb 16, 2007)

The press loves beating up on the airline industry.  Ever since Reagan deregulated it in the 80's, they have done endless reports on lost luggage, delayed flights, and passenger maltreatment.

I rarely see a report on the rarity of airline crashes.  Does anyone remember the last time a US carrier had a large plane crash?  

I would love to see a news report on tv showing how cheap, safe flights have revolutionized American's travel enjoyment.


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## silverfox82 (Feb 16, 2007)

FYI airline deregulation was enacted in 1978 by the Carter administration. And yes, I do remember the last time a large plane crashed, 2 in fact. As of last year there were only 2 us carriers that didn't lose money, southwest and jet blue, both (supposedly) LCC's. 11 hours stuck on an airplane is unacceptable when there were options to get them off, which there were. Watch the lawsuits start flying (pun intended). As a whole the us airline industry is a mess partially because it is self regulated. According to an article in a news magazine more than 50% of maintenence work is outsourced to other countries with the work being performed by unlicensed mechanics. And no, I am not a disgruntled airline employee, just a fellow traveler who remembers the days when flying was not such a chore.


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## Pat H (Feb 16, 2007)

I know that had to be miserable especially for kids but I think this would have been worse - 20+ hours stuck on RT. 78 in PA.

www.mcall.com/news/local/all-grtimeline.5710427feb16,0,5651088.story?page=2&coll=all-news-hed
www.mcall.com/news/local/all-a1_5color78feb16,0,7592961.story


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## Neesie (Feb 16, 2007)

I remember a similar incident, a Northwest plane stuck on the runway in Detroit about 10 years ago (forget how many hours).  I always think about that when I pack my carry on.  I have since developed diabetes so I take a fair amount of snacks.  Now that the 'gel' rules have come in to effect, it has more than complicated things.

I don't think it would hurt for anyone to pack a few snacks.  I also take a trip to the restroom shortly before boarding.  One thing they mentioned was the terrible stench from the airplanes toilets.


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## Carol C (Feb 16, 2007)

Smokers on board must have been climbing the walls!


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## Keitht (Feb 16, 2007)

They aren't the only airline with unhappy customers at the moment.  American Airlines have effectively dumped passengers bound for the UK at one New York airport (JFK I think).  Passengers who were due to fly out on Thursday have been told they won't travel until Monday at the earliest.  The passengers claim they have had no support from AA at all.  No attempt to find them accommodation, no food vouchers, nada.


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## cmdmfr (Feb 17, 2007)

Keith I am sure that Jet Blue and American are not the only ones that had problems. I am sure that the air lines canceled flights for safety reasons. Also with air lines flying fewer flights now and more people booking it is harder to accommodate the passengers when there is a cancellation  Just like all airlines it all about money not customer service.


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## Icarus (Feb 17, 2007)

Jet Blue is experiencing severe growing pains at its JFK hub. They are in the process of rebuilding the old landmark TWA terminal to be used to replace it's overrused terminal next door.

I'm sure what happened is that there were no gates available for those planes, and it took some highly skilled professional 10 hours to figure out a plan to offload the customers that were going nowhere, since they had no plan for a severe weather event that could ground the planes all day.

Whenever I fly into JFK on a UA red eye flight, I'm amazed at how many planes Jet Blue has parked overnight on the tarmac near their terminal.

At least they will certainly have a plan in place for the next time this happens.

-David


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## Keitht (Feb 17, 2007)

cmdmfr said:


> Keith I am sure that Jet Blue and American are not the only ones that had problems.   Just like all airlines it all about money not customer service.



Regrettably true on both counts.  Unfortunately for the airlines there are rules about what they do have to do for their passengers and it seems from reports that AA have failed in this instance.  They can't provide accommodation if there is none available, but they do have a duty to provide food and drink.
On the wider subject of customer service versus money, it really does seem to be no contest.  The latest example I have heard was British Airways who cut both the number of bags and the total weight limits.  The cuts were announced just a couple of weeks before they came into effect so people could fly out with one weight limit and then be hit for excess baggage on the return flight.  That on top of the chaos with the strikes BA have suffered, and are apparently about to suffer more of, doesn't seem like intelligent customer relations to me.
The problem is with the world of commerce now being run by the bean counters.  All they care about is this year's bottom line and not the longer term impact.


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## cluemeister (Feb 17, 2007)

I stand corrected on the deregulation act.  It was Jimmy Carter.  Reagan fired the air traffic controllers.

The point remains that deregulation has been very good for the industry.  When you're moving millions of people in the air a day, problems are going to happen.

I wouldn't have wanted to be one of the people in that plane for 11 hours, but overall the safety record and quality of service for the money is pretty good.

Now if Southwest would adopt some of Jetblue's ideas, then I would be really happy.


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## geoffb (Feb 17, 2007)

Hopefully JetBlue has learned a valuable lesson about cancelling flights in advance of poor weather and pre-positioning personnel and equipment to be able to start operations again as soon as possible.

But they are at a disadvantage because of their size and the geography of their routes and hubs.


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## PerryM (Feb 18, 2007)

*Don't ask for a solution that is really the problem*

I pity the passengers on the JetBlue jet – I know that they want to lash out, folks caught in similar situations want to lash out; it’s only natural.  However, what will be presented as the Answer, the federal government coming to the rescue, will, of course, just make the situation worse.

The simple solution is to not fly JetBlue – problem solved.  If folks want to band together, take up a collection, and start some consumer actions – that’s fine.

Just don’t think that making the Government bigger, or interfering in the free flow of commerce is somehow going to make this better – you all know that Government is the problem and not the solution.

The freer we are to conduct business the better off we are in the long run.  Now I’m not talking about criminal acts – none were done in this situation.  This is just airline stupidity – most of the airline carriers seem to be inflicted with it.


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## pcgirl54 (Feb 18, 2007)

I didn't even know this was allowed. I don't know how I would have handled being trapped 11hrs. At least if the passengers were let into the terminal they could have walked around and used the facilities and been able to eat more than a bag of chips. This is scary.


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## Aldo (Feb 18, 2007)

I have HEARD, don't know if it's true, that at some major airports, specifically Philadelphia, that the runway cleaning crew, which was formerly a unionized part of the airport staff, has been replaced by non-union contractors who don't know their job and that consequently ice and snow removal is a much more problemmatic issue.


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## cluemeister (Feb 18, 2007)

Bravo Perry!

When I see politicians start talking about the "Passengers bill of rights", I know that more government interference that is intended to "protect me" is coming.

Millions of passengers fly every day in the US.  This situation was unfortunate.  It does not rise to the level of getting Congress involved.

As Perry suggested, if you're mad at Jetblue, don't fly Jetblue. I'm booked for Vegas in April on Jetblue, and I'm looking forward to more legroom and DirecTV for the 6 hour flight.


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## Icarus (Feb 18, 2007)

The only reason a passenger bill or rights got brought up in the past was because airlines did stuff like this regularly. It got dropped when the airlines promised to self-regulate and make sure they wouldn't keep passengers trapped in a metal tube for hours and hours. The airlines put in place a number of customer service initiatives that have since fallen to the budget axe, and here we go again.

Do you think it should be permissible for an airline to keep their passengers grounded and locked in a cabin for more than 4 hours? Even though they knew that the planes were going nowhere, they still were ordered to push back from the gates to make room for other flights that weren't going anywhere either. One of the articles stated that an inbound flight sat on the tarmac for 5 hours before it could reach a gate.

Government should step in when an industry fails to self-regulate and fails to provide at least some remedies when they don't meet their own standards. If the airline industry did that, I'd agree with you, but they've failed to do it over and over again. And at least in this case, Jet Blue proved that their own bottom line trumped common decency and standards, and that they had no standards in this area. And even if they did, their failure to meet their own standards didn't hurt them anymore than the weather did.

-David


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## PerryM (Feb 18, 2007)

*Trust the sleazy politicians?*



Icarus said:


> ...
> 
> Government should step in when an industry fails to self-regulate and fails to provide at least some remedies when they don't meet their own standards.
> ....
> ...



David, what you describe is theoretical, unfortunately.

If congress does get involved, I can assure everyone here that it will really be an “*Airline Bill of Rights*”.

All our politicians are jetting around all the time – many/most folks mooch rides from corporations since flying is such a drudge anymore.  The airlines have plenty of empty G5 type corporate jets waiting to whisk our politician and family anywhere they want for free.

Nope, the only legislation congress will impose on us will just harm us and help the airlines – count on it.  I know my sleazy politicians won’t disappoint me in this critical matter.


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## johnmfaeth (Feb 18, 2007)

The latest from JetBlue is that they have initiated a "system reset" where everything will start from scratch with a 100% load on Monday AM.

I landed at Newark Friday night from St. Thomas (on Continental - my favorite). First time in my 200+ flights to/from Newark that the taxiways were still crusted in ice and snow the evening after it stopped "snowing". The plane felt like we were taxing cross country with the incredible bumps. The entire NY area was clobbered by this icy mix that was just not plowable. I had a 4" layer of frozen ice/snow at home that had to be broken into chunks with a pitchfork and then shovelled away in chunks. The cold temps also made salting unproductive.

Not defending JetBlue, clearly a management disaster caused by not cancelling flights that were not going to get out anyway.

But as a mutiple timeshare owner, I have found that when JetBlue, Spirit, or AirTran add a destination, the big guys reduce their prices significantly to compete. That I love, so I am personally against any JetBlue boycott.

I imagine (hope?) they learned a valuable lesson. They are normally a well managed, very customer focused airline.

John


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## johnmfaeth (Feb 18, 2007)

Perry,

I agree that some regulations can be too much and many are "corrupted" by special interests which "buy" both parties.

However...

"If all men were angels, we would need no government" - Ben Franklin

And today's corporations look more like hungry pigs than angels IMHO.

John


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## geoffb (Feb 18, 2007)

There are indicents like this every year involving many airlines, only the most extreme cases get reported.

The airline industry has a choice, they can mutually agree on some standards that resolve the issue of flights that get stranded on the taxiway for hours on end or they can do nothing and have the government force some random and impractical set of guidelines on them.


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## PerryM (Feb 18, 2007)

*Ben would know the solution..*

Beyond providing for a common defense, in terms of enemies external and internal the Federal and State governments would not be recognized by our Founding Fathers.

I don’t think that Ben would recognize paying money to framers to NOT grow a crop, or tariffs imposed upon sugar which result in that pound of sugar at the store costing 2 – 3 times as much as it does in Canada; THE reason why the US candy manufactures move to Canada.

Looking for Big Brother to solve the kinds of problems that are easily solved by just not buying a product/service from a company is to ask for the quagmire we now have in our country.

Costs about $150 to keep TUG going for a full year – I’m sure one of those folks trapped on that JetBlue would easily pay that to seek revenge – that is the correct solution, not Big Brother.  Consumers already have the solution.


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## Icarus (Feb 18, 2007)

Perry .. no problem. I respect the liberterian view too and I understand your point of view, which is equally valid as anybody elses point of view. I don't think I wake up in the morning thinking how better my world would be if only there were more government regulation. 

Sometimes though, self-regulation just doesn't work. Even in this thread, somebody told us how they were oposed to government regulation but were looking forward to their future Jetblue flight. 

The industry does a pretty decent job of self-regulation for bumped passengers, and they have rules and compensation rules for lost/missing luggage. Actually, I don't think those rules are based on self-regulation either, they are regulations they are all required to follow. In the areas where things were voluntary, such as providing accommodations for weather related events, most, if not all airlines have dropped those benefits.

They just have no standards/rules/regulations about how long a passenger can be locked in a metal tube on the ground. They had a chance (well, really several chances) to address it and they didn't.

Frankly, I agree with you that it would be much better if the industry solved this problem on their own, with some measurable standards/rules that they impose on themselves, which includes compensation when they fail to follow their own rules, so in the event they don't follow their own rules, it hurts their bottom line.

-David


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## Loriannf (Feb 18, 2007)

*67,000 flights in 2006*

were held an hour or more on the tarmac, according to last night's ABC news.  I'm another that thinks government needs to stay out of the economy, but the airline industry is failing miserably.  Some of the problems are attributable to the FAA and its decades old system, but much of it is poor management on behalf of the airlines.  JMHO, of course.

Lori


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## cmdmfr (Feb 19, 2007)

here are some other numbers showing that Jet Blue is not the only one with that problem

GROUNDED 

Since 2000, passengers on more than 300 airplanes have been stuck on the tarmac for longer than five hours.

Number of incidents:

2000-79
2001-15
2002-84
2003-96
2004-A
2005-24
2006-36


A-reliable data not available

By Julie Snider, USA TODAY


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## cluemeister (Feb 19, 2007)

I'm curious if the rapid expansion of the number of air passengers over the years, combined with  the lack of expansion of airport capacity, has contributed to this problem.  Anybody on TUG have this type of knowledge?


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## icydog (Feb 19, 2007)

During the Air Controllers strike in the '70s my flight to Paris sat on the tarmac at JFK for 10+ hours (okay I was 19). Everyone was walking around and they started to serve a dinner meal. Just like that, in an instant, the pilot yelled, "Everyone in their seats" and we took off with food on our trays and the overheads not stowed. My friend got hit in the head by a large bag and we all had food deposited on our clothing. In those days there was no accountability at all. So I can identify with the folks stuck on the tarmac. It is not fun, nor is it any consolation that someone might be working on this. They just needed to vent and be heard. I too, do not want more gov't involvement. It will wind up costing us more money, and of this, I am certain.


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## PerryM (Feb 19, 2007)

*Jack, is that a mushroom cloud I see?*

Let’s not forget that the airport involved was probably owned by the government – a state or local variety.  The airport runs under thousands of pages of regulations – all from the government - layers and layers of government.

The sad fact is that this problem, and ones like it, could be a result of government already in an area where it is incompetent – just about anything but the defense of our country.  That's all it was ever designed to do by our Founding Fathers - nothing else!

To now ask that bloated government to “Fine tune” the rules stating how many minutes a passenger can be held in a plane is going to take hundreds of pages of new regulations and thousands of hours of re-training of all kinds of government folks.

This is the typical government response to any consumer problem – use a nuclear bomb approach to solve a problem that is already solvable – just don’t use JetBlue.  Jack Bauer save us!


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## Icarus (Feb 19, 2007)

If you move any further to the right, Perry, you'll be on the left. I take back what I said about your point of view.



http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070218/ap_on_bi_ge/jetblue_cancellations

JetBlue hopes cancellations are its last

JetBlue called off almost a quarter of its flights for Monday but hoped that would be the last round of cancellations as it struggles to recover from the snowstorm that saw some travelers sitting on grounded planes for hours.

...

The latest cancellations were needed to make sure all flight crews had gotten the legally mandated amount of rest before returning to service, JetBlue Airways Corp. spokesman Sebastian White said Sunday.

[ I guess that's another one of those pesky gov't regulations ]
...

All JetBlue flights were canceled in and out of 11 airports: Richmond, Va.; Pittsburgh; Charlotte and Raleigh/Durham, N.C.; Jacksonville, Fla.; Austin and Houston, Texas; Columbus, Ohio; Nashville; Portland, Maine; and Bermuda.

...

The disruptions also meant JetBlue faced mountains of luggage checked by would-be travelers. Some passengers complained that after their flights were canceled no one could find their bags.

...


-David


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## cluemeister (Feb 19, 2007)

Jetblue is attempting to repair the bad PR it is getting from the news outlets, who are happy to continue to pound the airline industry.  Because of this pr nightmare, Jetblue will lose millions of dollars, and the network newscasts get to feel morally superior.

It's pathetic to watch the victimization news culture on the nightly television.


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## geoand (Feb 19, 2007)

*There has to be some individual responsibility*

When did this severe storm start?  How was the visibility?  If I am at home and this storm is raging, I might think about canceling my flight.  Sure, I am going to lose my money but I certainly won't lose my life in car accident or plane accident.

Could the flight tower see all the planes on the tarmac?  Could they route them to a gate without exposing the passengers to tarmac collisions?

The same hue and cry would be heard if JetBlue or any other airline cancelled the flights because of weather.  Passengers would be screaming that they were unjustly treated.

2 or 3 years ago, JetBlue became the biggest user of JFK.  This storm created a pr nightmare for any airline.  They could not win.

I wonder how many people would drive their car in this type of weather?  How many would really feel safe with those gigantic metal tubes filled to capacity moving around with the guide of a ground controller to return to a gate?  It was chaos out there and no one was injured.  Lucky - perhaps.


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## Icarus (Feb 19, 2007)

The problem wasn't just the storm. It was Jetblue's management of the problems caused by the storm. If it was just getting grounded by weather, sure, the news media would have reported it, but nobody blames the airline itself for the weather which is beyond their control. Sure, there are uncomfortable pictures of people and families stranded in the airport, and that never looks good, but wouldn't you want to be aware of that if you had a flight scheduled for the next day, or if you were waiting for family members on Jetblue flights?

What was in their control was the ability to cancel or delay flights, which they didn't do. Instead, they loaded them all up, knowing they weren't going anywhere, and pushed them onto the tarmac, fully loaded with passengers and when it became apparent that their strategy of waiting out the storm wouldn't work, it was too late to recover. Equipment started failing, they had no gates available, and no plan to get passengers off those planes.

The news media shouldn't report that? The news media shouldn't continue to report the fallout from the issues that occurred on Feb 14, and are still affecting their operations on Feb 19th? They shouldn't report that 1/4 of all Jetblue flights are being canceled on Feb 19th, so that people can recheck their plans before going to the airport in case their flights are canceled?

JFK is a big airport. Tons of gates, lots of airlines and lots of flights scheduled every day. I don't think any other airline managed their problems that day as poorly as Jetblue did. Yes, they have a PR problem. Caused by themselves.

They can solve it themselves if they are clever and take responsibility and put some checks and balances in place to make sure it never happens again.

-David


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## pcgirl54 (Feb 19, 2007)

*Logan Airport Today*

Today at Logan Airport Jet Blue terminal there are many unhappy kids and their parents on February vacationwho have not been able to go on vacation since Friday due to cancelled flights. Over 140 were cancelled today. Per the news team this is the only way Jet Blue can get back on track. Many checked their luggage then had flights cancelled.


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## PerryM (Feb 19, 2007)

*JetBlue's Bill of Rights*

Just listened to ABC news (at a relative’s house tonight, I never listen to the Drive-By Media) about JetBlue.

The news said that JetBlue is about to release a “Passenger Bill of Rights” it didn’t need the heavy hand of Federal Government to issue this they did it on their own.

I don’t know what the particulars are but this could set a wildfire in effect and ALL the airlines will have one of these “Passenger Bill of Rights”.

On our last 2 flights American Airlines lost ALL our luggage both ways - they did deliver the bags within 24 hours and on the flight to Salt Lake City they were going to "Give" us $50 to compensate us for the lost bags.  Renting the ski clothing and snowboard and bindings would be $300 - I still think half the airlines need to go out of business; problem is the rest of them are just as bad.


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## geoffb (Feb 19, 2007)

Exactly, the airline brought this on themselves. A lot of airlines proactively cancelled flights last Wednesday, most of them restored operations on Thursday or Friday because they planned well for the impact of the storm.

JetBlue has just finished their sixth day of disrupted operations and has announced that thay have cancelled 10% of their flights tomorrow. I think a major airline being disrupted for a full week by a snow storm is legitimate news.

I think JetBlue's CEO has clearly identified in interviews where their operations failed (crew scheduling) and is changing how they operate and putting additional resources in place for the future.

The bottom line is that they tried to chase revenue on Wednesday and keep flying and it has cost them dearly. In addition to all the angry customers and bad PR over the weekend they had to charter large aircraft from other carriers to try and catch up. The cost would have been astronomical.


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## geoand (Feb 20, 2007)

geoffb said:


> The bottom line is that they tried to chase revenue on Wednesday and keep flying and it has cost them dearly. In addition to all the angry customers and bad PR over the weekend they had to charter large aircraft from other carriers to try and catch up. The cost would have been astronomical.



The bottom line is the fact that the only way the airlines can make any kind of profit is for them to run at near capacity for each flight.  If that continues, there will always be problems and complaints about airlines.  There is always talk about airline fares being too high.  There always complaints about lousy service of some sort.  We really do get what we pay for.


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## Icarus (Feb 20, 2007)

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/02/19/business/19jetblue.html?_r=1&oref=slogin

(Free sub required)

JetBlue’s C.E.O. Is ‘Mortified’ After Fliers Are Stranded



> ...
> 
> Mr. Neeleman said JetBlue certainly erred in not canceling more flights and in not doing so earlier on Wednesday, and added that his company’s management lacked depth in operations. “We need to beef it up,” he said. “I’ll address that as well.”
> 
> ...



The article was interesting. Among other things, I didn't know that Jetblue has 2000 reservation agents that are mostly women that work from home in the Salt Lake City area.

-David


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## Carol C (Feb 20, 2007)

Icarus said:


> http://www.nytimes.com/2007/02/19/business/19jetblue.html?_r=1&oref=slogin
> 
> (Free sub required)
> 
> ...



At least their call center isn't based in some state prison!


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## cmdmfr (Feb 20, 2007)

*lost luggage*

here are some of the effects form that storm  from another air line that has been in the news Quite often for the lost luggage


PHILADELPHIA (AP) - February 20, 2007 - Some US Airways passengers who flew through Philadelphia during last week's nasty winter storm still didn't have their luggage Tuesday, an apparent step back for a company battling persistent baggage complaints. 


"It's been a nightmare," said Joe McLean, a 56-year-old advertising salesman from Springfield whose Valentine's Day flight from Philadelphia to Los Angeles was canceled. "They told me it's been located at some airport and they're sending it back, but I've been waiting for days." 
McLean's flight was supposed to leave at 9:30 a.m. last Wednesday, but the plane wasn't boarded until 7:30 p.m. The flight ended up being canceled shortly after, and McLean said he had to stand in a 2½-hour line to file a lost baggage claim. 

"By the time they get around to delivering to me, it could be Christmas," McLean said. 

US Airways canceled 670 flights into and out of Philadelphia as a major winter storm hit the Northeast last week. Thousands of bags were separated from their owners. 

The airline first promised that all bags would be delivered by Monday, but it didn't happen. 

On Tuesday morning, at least 200 bags were still lined up in the baggage claim area at Philadelphia International Airport. The company said it expected all remaining bags to go out for delivery by the end of the day. 

US Airways has been trying to improve its baggage handling after a meltdown about two years ago. Over three days in December 2004, the airline had to cancel hundreds of flights and thousands of pieces luggage were stranded in Philadelphia after scores of flight attendants and baggage handlers called in sick. 

Last year, the Tempe, Ariz.-based airline was ranked 13th among the largest airlines for the rate at which it mishandled its passengers bags, according to a U.S. Department of Transportation report. The company just pumped $20 million in upgrades into its Philadelphia airport facilities, including new baggage-handling equipment. 

Phil Gee, a spokesman for the airline, said the majority of the bags lost last week were delivered within two days and those that took longer were an "anomaly." 

Kathy Pulver has spent six days waiting, calling and driving back and forth to the airport from her home in Medford, N.J., to try to track down her suitcase. 

"Everyone has been very, very polite, but no suitcase," said the 54-year-old consultant. "I'm going to go back (to the airport) today with my claim filled out and look again. Hopefully, I'll find the bag."


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## PerryM (Feb 21, 2007)

*The Bill of Rights or is it Lefts?*

JetBlue’s “Passenger Bill of Rights”. 

Sounds like they addressed their customer’s concerns and the heavy hand of government didn’t get to gum up everything - yet.  How long before the other airlines do likewise?

I’ve always been amazed that for an industry that needs smart folks to make it run, they lack any common sense at all.  SouthWest seems to have the most common sense of all the airlines – they just kept everything KISS.

My theory is that most of the top management at airlines are old airline pilots who flew for the company but before that Uncle Sam paid to train them for military missions.  That's where the distorted mind set starts - a fighter pilot who is immersed in Big Government thinking from day one.


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## johnmfaeth (Feb 21, 2007)

Hi Perry,

By doing something themselves rather than waiting for a government edict, they get to create a watered down version of what would have been imposed. 

For example, they will sit on the ground no more than 5 hours before going back to the gate and deplaning.

FIVE HOURS !!!! That's nuts!!! Who wants to sit for 5 hours in a plane not going anywhere and not connected to proper ventilation? At a gate, they pump air in, at altitude, with engines running they pump air in, with the engines idling on the tarmac, they can barely move much air.

If you or I wrote it, it would probably have been 2 hours, which is still hell for the passengers.

So before you declare victory over the government, just know that the new world order got this one, the big corporations vs. the little guy.

But I may be wrong, just MHO.

John


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## PerryM (Feb 21, 2007)

*Raise your hand if you think the government could do better?*



johnmfaeth said:


> Hi Perry,
> 
> By doing something themselves rather than waiting for a government edict, they get to create a watered down version of what would have been imposed.
> 
> ...




John,

I can, with certainty, assume that the company’s “watered down version” is much better than the version the government would have imposed upon us.

The government’s version would have been bought and paid for by the airline industry and would favor them over us – they bought the politician’s vote, we didn’t.

Also, the government’s version would have meant the addition of NEW full time employees who would have added to the ranks of the largest union in the US – the ones that represent the government employees.

Also, we would be looking at one year of hearings and testimony and who knows where this thing would have ended up – we could have been forced into doing some stupid things that the airlines want us to do – like giving them 48 hours notice to cancel a reservation or they keep the money.

This was a great reply of JetBlue to a problem they created.  Who here really thinks the government would have done better?

This past weekend I did a lot of driving up to Chicago; I can’t tell you how many Citgo gas stations that have gone out of business since the dictator of a little country in South America slammed the consumers in the US.  I stopped using Citgo and a little smile was on my face the whole way.  I know there were US citizens affected - they, hopefully, will pick a better company next time for employment.

Hopefully JetBlue will be hurt where it counts, the bottom line.  The president of the company needs to be fired as well as all the BOD – get a new bunch who have some common sense.


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## silverfox82 (Feb 21, 2007)

Perry, I don't see anyone here suggesting that we return to "regulation" as we knew it. What was deregulated in 1978 was strictly economic, protected routes and fares so there was little competition and deregulation was a wonderful sucess for most passengers,free trade. The government continues to regulate the airline industry in all aspects of safety which is why accidents are rare, do you honestly think we would be better off if the industry self regulated safety? Being locked in for 11 hours could be construed as a safety issue for some and some sort of passenger bill of rights might prevent this in the future, the trick will be knowing how far it should go.


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## PerryM (Feb 21, 2007)

*Pass the Kool-Aid please...*

Our Founding Fathers designed a representative democracy for us to use.  It really is designed for handle the common defense of our country, state, and local citizens.  You can lump the military, police, fire, and if you want, safety into it’s purpose.  It provided for a court system that would act as an arbiter of justice.  It provided for a way to elect representatives to operate the government.

*Beyond that, our government is a house of cards built by lawyers.*

To all those that raised their hands to my question “Raise your hand if you think the government could do better?” I’m assuming that you could provide dozens of examples where the government can do something better than the private sector.  (Does NOT include the above areas).

So if your hand is in the air and you can’t rattle off 10 things in 10 seconds where the government does a better job than free competition in a free market you have drunken too much Purple Kool-Aid the Drive-By Media spews out every day.  *Government is NOT the solution – it’s THE problem*.


Think of our government as a car – it was designed and built to drive on roads.  Unfortunately that car is also trying to be an:
1)	Airplane
2)	Submarine
3)	Ocean going ship
4)	Train
5) Space ship

We are trying to retro fit something into our government that it was never designed to do.  The solution JetBlue provided is a first step - the next step is for the CEO and management team to step aside for some folks with common sense who know that it snows in the winter.


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## bogey21 (Feb 21, 2007)

I have flown Southwest ever since it was a 3 city Texas only airline.  I have always had the feeling that Southwest employees have the authority to improvise while major carrier employees have very explicit rules which they must follow to the "T".  Thus, while Southwest cannot avoid all problems, they seem able to avoid most.

GEORGE


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## silverfox82 (Feb 21, 2007)

Bravo for jet blue, their version of the "bill of rights", with the exception of the allowed time to be kept aboard, is better than the senates proposal. As regards the media, their purpose, like the airlines, is to make money for their stockholders. So who is at fault for the sensationalism of some of their drivel? Is Anna Nicole Smith more important than the middle east? You wouldn't know from the broadcast media this week. Hopefully other airlines will follow blue's lead and address the problems we customers face with increasing frequency. The squeeky wheel gets the oil!


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## johnmfaeth (Feb 22, 2007)

*JetBlue's email to it's frequent flyer members*

Here is the text of JetBlue's email to it's frequent flyer members...go to www.jetblue.com for more info and to see the video
--------------------------------------------------------------
Dear JetBlue Customers,

We are sorry and embarrassed. But most of all, we are deeply sorry.

Last week was the worst operational week in JetBlue's seven year history. Following the severe winter ice storm in the Northeast, we subjected our customers to unacceptable delays, flight cancellations, lost baggage, and other major inconveniences. The storm disrupted the movement of aircraft, and, more importantly, disrupted the movement of JetBlue's pilot and inflight crewmembers who were depending on those planes to get them to the airports where they were scheduled to serve you. With the busy President's Day weekend upon us, rebooking opportunities were scarce and hold times at 1-800-JETBLUE were unacceptably long or not even available, further hindering our recovery efforts. 

Words cannot express how truly sorry we are for the anxiety, frustration and inconvenience that we caused. This is especially saddening because JetBlue was founded on the promise of bringing humanity back to air travel and making the experience of flying happier and easier for everyone who chooses to fly with us. We know we failed to deliver on this promise last week. 

We are committed to you, our valued customers, and are taking immediate corrective steps to regain your confidence in us. We have begun putting a comprehensive plan in place to provide better and more timely information to you, more tools and resources for our crewmembers and improved procedures for handling operational difficulties in the future. We are confident, as a result of these actions, that JetBlue will emerge as a more reliable and even more customer responsive airline than ever before.

Most importantly, we have published the JetBlue Airways Customer Bill of Rights—our official commitment to you of how we will handle operational interruptions going forward—including details of compensation. I have a video message to share with you about this industry leading action. 

You deserved better—a lot better—from us last week. Nothing is more important than regaining your trust and all of us here hope you will give us the opportunity to welcome you onboard again soon and provide you the positive JetBlue Experience you have come to expect from us. 


Sincerely, 


David Neeleman
Founder and CEO
JetBlue Airways


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## PerryM (Feb 22, 2007)

*Second step*



johnmfaeth said:


> Here is the text of JetBlue's email to it's frequent flyer members...go to www.jetblue.com for more info and to see the video
> --------------------------------------------------------------
> Dear JetBlue Customers,
> 
> ...



Bravo for JetBlue.

Now for the second step - David Neeleman to step down and find someone with some common sense.

Apparently David's eyes were too big for what he could deliver - this is a fatal mistake and David should do the right thing and divest himself of the company he formed - it outgrew his ability to manage it.


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