# [ 2015 ] getting rid of starwood vacation ownership



## 122707Wilsons (Dec 5, 2015)

I would like to know how I can get rid of my Starwood vacation ownership. I am up to date with my payments and my maintenance fees. but I still owe s8,000 to own it outright.

Our home resort is in Palm Desert the Desert Willow. It is a two bedroom lockoff, and i get 56000 points ever other year. on odd years. it is vacation period 30, and we are gold membership.


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## DeniseM (Dec 5, 2015)

Unfortunately, there is no way to unload it unless you are willing to pay it off.

-Balance owed is too high
-The Staroptions and Starpoints and gold membership don't transfer to the new owner when you resale it.
-Off-season
-Can be acquired on the resale market for free

If you can take the hit on your credit rating, you can stop making the payments and eventually they will foreclose on you, and take it back.  But it will probably take 2 years, and in the meantime, they won't make it pleasant.  You may be turned over to collections, and it may damage your credit rating.

*What were your goals when you bought this timeshare - maybe we can help you with that.


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## 122707Wilsons (Dec 5, 2015)

is there anyone who can help me with this?


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## 122707Wilsons (Dec 5, 2015)

It looked like a good deal at the time but after looking into this it is far to expensive for one week every other year.


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## DeniseM (Dec 5, 2015)

122707Wilsons said:


> is there anyone who can help me with this?



There isn't - you signed a legally binding contract, just like any other credit purchase, and the only way out is to pay it off, and then get rid of it, or go through foreclosure.

Unfortunately, it's almost never a good deal to buy from the developer, but a lot of us have done it (me!) and survived.

Is it a financial hardship for you, or you just regret buying it?

One action that you may want to consider is refinancing it, and lowering your interest rate with a home equity loan, rather than the developer's loan.


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## 122707Wilsons (Dec 5, 2015)

do we just stop paying or do we contact them and let them know of our intention to stop payment.


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## DeniseM (Dec 5, 2015)

122707Wilsons said:


> do we just stop paying or do we contact them and let them know of our intention to stop payment.



It doesn't matter - if you stop paying, they will contact you.

You may want to try offering them a "deed back in lieu of foreclosure."  That means instead of going through foreclosure, you will deed it back to them.

It's a long shot, but since the resort is still in active sales, they might consider it.

However, they'd rather have your money, than the deed back, so it's a long shot.


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## 122707Wilsons (Dec 5, 2015)

both, a financial hardship and we do regret putting ourselves in this situation.


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## 122707Wilsons (Dec 5, 2015)

We were awarded 45000 SPG points when we bought the timeshare, or do we lose them if we don't use.


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## DeniseM (Dec 5, 2015)

*You may be approached by some shady companies who promise the they can rescue you from this situation.  This is usually a scam - no one can get you out of the mortgage payments.  Be aware that getting rid of the timeshare, doesn't get rid of the loan.

In other words, you could easily sign the timeshare over to someone, but you'd still owe the payments - the loan is separate.


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## Passepartout (Dec 5, 2015)

122707Wilsons said:


> both, a financial hardship and we do regret putting ourselves in this situation.



Question is, do you regret it enough to go through collection, legal ramifications that might include garnishment, foreclosure, and a 100 to 200 point hit to your credit for 7 or more years.

Me, I'd just hike up my big-boy pants, refinance at lower rate, and learn how to use it. Maybe renting reservations to reduce out-of-pocket cost. You probably won't get enough rental income to zero out your cost, but it can help soften the blow a lot more than a collection/foreclosure. It would show you are an adult.

Jim


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## 122707Wilsons (Dec 5, 2015)

do we lose the SPG points that were awarded to us on the day of purchase? If we foreclose do they take those points back


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## DeniseM (Dec 5, 2015)

122707Wilsons said:


> do we lose the SPG points that were awarded to us on the day of purchase? If we foreclose do they take those points back



Probably not - but that should be the least of your concerns at this point.


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## Passepartout (Dec 5, 2015)

Never mind.


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## 122707Wilsons (Dec 5, 2015)

Passepartout said:


> Never mind.


So they can garnish your wages if you foreclose on the timeshare, I understand the hit that I get on the credit report if I stop paying.


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## Passepartout (Dec 5, 2015)

122707Wilsons said:


> So they can garnish your wages if you foreclose on the timeshare, I understand the hit that I get on the credit report if I stop paying.



If they get a legal order. It isn't mandatory that collectors pursue it, but they have the right. You signed a legal contract as an adult obligating yourself for this purchase, didn't you? And you had several days to review the contract, and show it to your lawyer, or whoever, and rescind it with no ramifications. Put affairs back as if it never happened. Right? Now you want to renege? It isn't allowed without cost. And the cost is substantial.


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## cubigbird (Dec 5, 2015)

The cost to allow foreclosure and the extended hit to credit I'm sure exceeds $8000.  If you can pay off the loan and then give the week away that's your best bet.


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## DavidnRobin (Dec 5, 2015)

DeniseM said:


> Probably not - but that should be the least of your concern at this point.



^^^THIS^^^

you own $8K on an EOY WDW Gold week (ouch) - unfortunately, it has no value.
you are not only one who has found themselves in this boat.
having the $8K loan is a major problem - there is no easy way out.

you may be able to rid yourself of the week - but the loan is a problem. who is going to take on a loan on a TS that is has no value?

btw - fuzzy math puts those 45K SPs at around $1000
IMO - use them quickly - they have no bearing on your obligation - they aren't taking the week back regardless of what happens to those SPs - not even if you pay off your $8K loan

sorry


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## Sicnarf (Dec 5, 2015)

Starwood took back one of my WDW unit a few years ago. Not sure though if it was because I declared bankruptcy. They also took the100000 SPs that I got as a gift when I purchase the unit a year before.  Make sure to  use up your SPs if you offer them the deed in lieu of foreclosure.


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## alexadeparis (Dec 6, 2015)

Sicnarf said:


> Starwood took back one of my WDW unit a few years ago. Not sure though if it was because I declared bankruptcy. They also took the100000 SPs that I got as a gift when I purchase the unit a year before.  Make sure to  use up your SPs if you offer them the deed in lieu of foreclosure.



Was this before or after you were elite? I always wondered how a timeshare company would handle someone who had a paid in full timeshare AND a financed one. Mainly, would they consider a person in good standing on their paid unit and only take back the financed one? I have never had a client with that exact scenario. Was that your particular situation?


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## taterhed (Dec 6, 2015)

May I add a comment? (or two)



If you came here to get (expert) advice on your options...you've gotten it in the comments above.
pay it off and figure a way to reduce the cost (equity loan, rentals, use the vacation etc...)
attempt "deed back in lieu of foreclosure" (unlikely) and suffer any consequences
stop paying and face the unhappy consequences (foreclosure, credit, collectors, judgments, garnishment or bankruptcy)
 
If anyone. ANYONE tells you they can 'make your timeshare go away' in any format short of paying off the loan (Forum, phone, email, Google ad etc...) they are either lying, stealing, cheating or scamming you. And, just because it 'disappears' today doesn't mean it won't come right back to you in 6mos or a year.  *
Don't even ask about donating it to charity :ignore:
Jim is spot-on: Figure out ways to reduce the cost and/or use the week and then give it away once paid off.
 I hope you get the information you need to make a choice that is right for you. I hope this does not turn into another thread about "...I can make your debt disappear..."

Good luck.

 *there is always the super-slim chance somebody might 'assume your loan' but I wouldn't count on it.


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## Sicnarf (Dec 6, 2015)

alexadeparis said:


> Was this before or after you were elite? I always wondered how a timeshare company would handle someone who had a paid in full timeshare AND a financed one. Mainly, would they consider a person in good standing on their paid unit and only take back the financed one? I have never had a client with that exact scenario. Was that your particular situation?



Before 5* but after 4*. Yes, I was in good standing in all my paid units except for one which was financed.


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## alexadeparis (Dec 6, 2015)

Sicnarf said:


> Before 5* but after 4*. Yes, I was in good standing in all my paid units except for one which was financed.



Thank you.


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## VacationForever (Dec 7, 2015)

Sicnarf said:


> Before 5* but after 4*. Yes, I was in good standing in all my paid units except for one which was financed.



You had a good bankruptcy lawyer.


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## tahoeJoe (Dec 8, 2015)

Passepartout said:


> .... It would show you are an adult.
> 
> Jim



That's pretty judgemental and not very helpful.


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## okwiater (Dec 8, 2015)

Passepartout said:


> Me, I'd just hike up my big-boy pants, refinance at lower rate, and  learn how to use it. Maybe renting reservations to reduce out-of-pocket  cost. You probably won't get enough rental income to zero out your cost,  but it can help soften the blow a lot more than a  collection/foreclosure. It would show you are an adult.





tahoeJoe said:


> That's pretty judgemental and not very helpful.



I couldn't disagree more, tahoeJoe. An adult is someone who has reached maturity, not merely someone who has drawn oxygen for 18+ years. The OP does acknowledge that they regret the purchase, and Jim was offering a mature path forward. What's wrong with being encouraged to act like an adult?


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## taterhed (Dec 8, 2015)

My post (above) was as forceful-yet kind as I could muster.  
 These threads have a way of descending into a mess; either indignant or whiny or "I can beat the system...with the help of"....  ugh :annoyed:

 I'm hoping it doesn't go there. 
 BTW:  there is a an entire post on the 'what happens when you stop paying...' that is an ongoing journal of the process:  http://tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=231584  interesting read

 I fully agree that timeshare sales presentations are an enticing honey-trap just waiting to lure their (hapless) victims into financial chaos (for life!).  But, so are car dealers, home sellers, credit card companies etc....  

 As others have said:  'hitch-up the big-boy/girl pants and decide what to do..."


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## midwest39 (Dec 9, 2015)

We have a 2-bedroom lockout at Harborside.  A true summer week (24), Phase 1, Friday checkin.  We have had it since pre-construction.  Took all our small family there already.  Lost our previous home to a deed in lieu when a crook bought our subdivision (he lives in Isleworth in Orlando in an 8-figure house) and almost 3 years later, a lawsuit is still banging around in Lake County, FL court.  Lost a good portion of life savings.

Have tried selling HS for a number of years.  No luck.  No one wants the MF ($3100 for 2016) or the closing costs (estimated $2000-$2500)  Starwood told us that they will not do a deed in lieu with us at this time (thought it worth asking).  My husband is the contact with Starwood because I can't take the stress.

Guess what we are going to do end of January 2016 regarding MF?   Use 3 of my Social Security checks to pay for it?  Load up our credit card?  I'll leave it to everyone's imagination.

Everyone worried about our credit rating following our deed in lieu but we had to stop the bleeding on the other house.  It went for $.20 on the dollar.  Love how our legal system protects the rich.

As this HS situation goes on and on, I will report on our communications and results with Starwood on the forums.


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## dsmrp (Dec 9, 2015)

midwest39 said:


> We have a 2-bedroom lockout at Harborside.  A true summer week (24), Phase 1, Friday checkin.  We have had it since pre-construction.  Took all our small family there already.  Lost our previous home to a deed in lieu when a crook bought our subdivision (he lives in Isleworth in Orlando in an 8-figure house) and almost 3 years later, a lawsuit is still banging around in Lake County, FL court.  Lost a good portion of life savings.
> 
> Have tried selling HS for a number of years.  No luck.  No one wants the MF ($3100 for 2016) or the closing costs (estimated $2000-$2500)  Starwood told us that they will not do a deed in lieu with us at this time (thought it worth asking).  My husband is the contact with Starwood because I can't take the stress.
> 
> ...


 
Sorry for your home, real estate $ problems. Maybe after the ILG purchase goes thru later next year, they'll (VSE) be more amenable to a deed back.


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## midwest39 (Dec 12, 2015)

dsmrp said:


> Sorry for your home, real estate $ problems. Maybe after the ILG purchase goes thru later next year, they'll (VSE) be more amenable to a deed back.



Thank you, Sandra, for posting a positive.  I apologize for the ranting, but it has been a very frustrating situation for us.


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## taterhed (Dec 12, 2015)

midwest39 said:


> Thank you, Sandra, for posting a positive.  I apologize for the ranting, but it has been a very frustrating situation for us.



Understandably.
Medical, legal and other life events can change your situation overnight.  I'm sure you'll find a solution that fits your families needs.  It's always hard to remove the emotion from such a situation.  We had an issue with a builder that ate several years of our lives.  It was a strain on the entire family.

Our solution was really helped by getting a third party involved (who had NO emotional investment in our problems) and mediating a good solution for the family.  This took the frustration out of the equation and helped us come to a decision with less blood sweat and tears.  Maybe it would help you too; or maybe you've already done that.

Good luck.


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## tschwa2 (Dec 12, 2015)

If I were you, I would start advertising on Redweek ASAP for your rental.  Even though it is a summer week it is before a lot of East Coast school systems get out.  That said you still should be able to cover your MF cost.  At $1500 for the deluxe and $2050 for the premium side you would still have enough to cover your MF's, paypal and redweek fees.   You could probably bump it up a little and still be the lowest price for that week but if your priority is to get it rented out fast and get that money back in your pocket you don't want to be much higher.


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## margolism (Dec 13, 2015)

If the timeshare companies themselves thought their own products were actually worth something, you would think they would do deed backs in a heartbeat.


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## Beefnot (Dec 13, 2015)

okwiater said:


> I couldn't disagree more, tahoeJoe. An adult is someone who has reached maturity, not merely someone who has drawn oxygen for 18+ years. The OP does acknowledge that they regret the purchase, and Jim was offering a mature path forward. What's wrong with being encouraged to act like an adult?



I would argue that an "adult" can also walk away from their obligations if they are willing to accept the consequences.


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## LisaRex (Dec 14, 2015)

margolism said:


> If the timeshare companies themselves thought their own products were actually worth something, you would think they would do deed backs in a heartbeat.



This particular case isn't a deed back because the OP doesn't hold title to the deed.  The finance company does. 

Besides, that's like saying that if Toyota thought that their cars were actually worth something, they'd just take them back if the new owner was unable to make their car payment.  A contract is a contract.   

Also, remember that they've set the rules so that it actually works in Starwood's favor when a certain percentage of owners default on MFs.  Not only do they get to keep whatever money they've made on the initial sale, but because they're not paying their MFs, they shut the owner out from using their villa.  Guess who gets the empty rooms to rent?  Hint: Not the HOA.  Starwood gets them.  The HOA simply bills paying owners for their pro rata portion of those delinquent fees, and the owners get nothing for their trouble. 

After two years of non-payment, they foreclose, get the deed back anyway, and they are free to sell it again. It's actually a pretty nifty system if you sell a desirable product.


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## SMHarman (Dec 14, 2015)

LisaRex said:


> This particular case isn't a deed back because the OP doesn't hold title to the deed.  The finance company does.
> 
> Besides, that's like saying that if Toyota thought that their cars were actually worth something, they'd just take them back if the new owner was unable to make their car payment.  A contract is a contract.
> 
> ...



The deed is still held by the owner there is just a first charge / lien on the asset. 

And Cars are repoed if you don't pay your car payment. The finance company repossessed and sells to recover the debt. 

But you conclude correctly this could / should end with a deed in lieu of fforeclosure.


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## Scott & Laura (Dec 15, 2015)

I am not an attorney nor am I offering you legal advice but, I feel the above advice is very good. 

You state you have honored and respected the agreement you entered into but now you have buyer’s remorse and are thinking of dishonoring your committed word to the lender. I would personally never go back on my word as many others rely on my word. Think about what dishonoring your word means to yourself before you go down this path.

You have three conflated issue to address:
•	1) You purchased - as I understand the facts correctly- deeded real estate  and have a debt owing to a lender as the singular issue creating your concern
o	The debt you agreed to finance this purchase most likely included pledged assets that the lender could make themselves whole or reduce their losses by lending to you as much as they can if the debt goes bad .
o	Lenders buy dollar bills add labor to re-market and sell at a markup—A lumber company buys lumber adds labor and sells for a markup—same thing --they both buy a product whether lumber or a dollar bill and provide labor costs to remarket and to resell and need to recover original cost and a Profit to stay in business–they both must generate profits. most lenders operate on a tight margin 2-3% so If they have 3 bad loans in a hundred they make zero money.
o	Because the core competency of a lender is selling dollar bills they added bought and added labor i.e. lending—talk to the lender up front about resolving issue and be honest—try to find a workable solution – and keep in mind and be respectful of their position ( they relied on your promise to buy money from them and repay them with a profit -- which you imply you are now considering or are thinking of not honoring—irrespective of reasons)  talk to them—including refinancing at a higher rate over longer time—Keep in mind interest reflects risk so any refinance under these conditions is due to increased risk which you are communicating.
•	2) You have achieved and struggle over an $8000.00 debt---how can you be a Starwood Gold and struggle over payments for what amounts to a used car price paid over time—Why are you a Starwood Gold  now?
o	I think any lender will be unduly alarmed as I would be.
o	You also imply that you wish to retain SPG  point benefits from a transaction you do not wish to honor.
o	Why do you wish to retain SPG points on an agreement which you are pondering about not honoring-- if you  dishonor an agreement with your lender is it fair that they still keep their original promise and offer of SPG points to you
o	I saw you have honored your payments and are in good standing to date
o	I think keeping your word even if it costs you personally a lot to perform is the best course
•	3) Starwood is only a management company after the sale and they have duties to act  responsibly  to their company
o	Starwood needs to best manage any real estate repurchase to meet needs of their company and as such they are and should act as a private customer
o	Pawn Stars buying and reselling is the same as Starwood position is—They have to buy cheap enough to resell and make a profit
o	People assume Starwood which was hired as a management company (such as WKORVN or WKORV should help us out personally—that is an unfair expectation placed on them

Finally I have a high credit score--who cares all that means is you use credit and repay it --- I love buying and selling for cash---I bet Bill Gates Microsoft owner has a low credit score because he does not need credit


Regards


Scott


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## alexadeparis (Dec 15, 2015)

Scott & Laura said:


> I am not an attorney nor am I offering you legal advice but, I feel the above advice is very good.
> 
> You state you have honored and respected the agreement you entered into but now you have buyer’s remorse and are thinking of dishonoring your committed word to the lender. I would personally never go back on my word as many others rely on my word. Think about what dishonoring your word means to yourself before you go down this path.
> 
> ...



No comment on the rest of this, but I think he is Gold by virtue of buying from the developer.


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## 122707Wilsons (Dec 22, 2015)

Thank you so much to everyone for your help and input in this matter. Tug it is truly a very helpful website. I regret not finding it before buying the timeshare, otherwise, I think we would have made a different decision about not buying something that turn out to be pretty worthless  . Merry Christmas to everyone.


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## okwiater (Dec 23, 2015)

122707Wilsons said:


> Thank you so much to everyone for your help and input in this matter. Tug it is truly a very helpful website. I regret not finding it before buying the timeshare, otherwise, I think we would have made a different decision about not buying something that turn out to be pretty worthless  . Merry Christmas to everyone.



Kudos to you for making the effort to find this site and learn about your options. If you decide to keep your timeshare, you should take advantage of this resource where there are lots of great people who would like nothing better than to help you learn how best to make use of it.

Merry Christmas!


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## DeniseM (Jan 11, 2017)

You are replying to a thread that is over a year old, which tells me that you are using the search function and looking for particular topics that you want to respond to.  When you use the search function, please look at the dates you pull up, because it can go back as far as 2005.  

Attending a sales presentation is voluntary - the simple answer is don't go.

I have never heard of a Starwood/Vistana sales presentation where they finger printed people.

I cannot imagine why anyone would ALLOW themselves to be finger printed in a sales presentation.  Why did you not simply LEAVE?


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## VacationForever (Jan 11, 2017)

Janet Godkin said:


> Ps. Dear Denisa- they have our finger prints to prove it. Sorry I didn't video tape the entire rodeo, but I never thought to.


I agree with Denise. You must not have attended a Vistana (Starwood) presentation.  They do not fingerprint anyone.  I also cannot imagine any system ever fingerprints someone who attends a timeshare presentation.  TUG has been around a long time with several hundred thousand members and I do not recall this was ever reported by anyone.


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## Janet Godkin (Jan 11, 2017)

Well, maybe they are ashamed (like me to admit it.) Anyway, the resort has the paperwork, they know they FP us - after we were signing docs- if that helps??? Yes, after, but still... that is why we felt stuck.  I don't need to come on here & lie about something so embarrassing.


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## dioxide45 (Jan 11, 2017)

Janet Godkin said:


> I was online once & watched them jump $20 before my very eyes;


I also am not aware of any system that would show an increase of MFs in real time online.


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## Janet Godkin (Jan 11, 2017)

Because there were so many brokers & reps coming & going I do not recall what we were FP for, but maybe it was a third party broker - could be their protocol, not Vistana per se.


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## dioxide45 (Jan 11, 2017)

You are leaving a lot of vague information, not mentioning the timeshare systems that you keep referring to? With what company was the presentation with where they fingerprinted you? What companies website did the MF go up by $20? Is it possible you just wrote it down wrong?


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## DeniseM (Jan 11, 2017)

This is the Starwood/Vistana forum - so if you are posting about another company, why are you posting in this forum?

1)  In my 15 years on TUG, I have never heard of anyone being fingerprinted at a Starwood/Vistana presentation - if it happened, it would be discussed here.

2)  Maintenance fees do not randomly go up $20 - nor does Vistana have a website where you can go look up maintenances fees.  You can only look up your own maintenance fees, in your own account.  Vistana maintenance fees go up once a year, and they are released in the fall - not $20 here and there.

3)  A Vistana/Starwood sales presentation would NEVER include resale people - the idea is ludicrous.

So either you are making the whole thing up, or you are not talking about Starwood/Vistana.


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## DeniseM (Jan 11, 2017)

"Janet" - You clearly have ulterior motives for posting here, your stories don't hold water, and you are not fooling anyone.  I am completely OK with you not coming back.


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## dioxide45 (Jan 11, 2017)

Janet Godkin said:


> OK, you're the expert. I see the byline for TUG is "Providing the Truth About TS since 1993." How much "truth" is actually allowed on here?? I'll remove my discussion. I see the only people here are moderators and people protecting their own interests, not the interests of others. I dont need this. I've been through enough madness already. Thanks for your help, ahem, not.


I certainly don't have any interests to protect. I own four timeshares. Yes, the MFs have gone up. Am I happy about it, not really. It still works for us. I don't doubt it is possible for MFs to go up $20 while you are looking online, perhaps more likely at a resort that bills monthly vs one like Marriott or Vistana that release bills once a year. 

I see you also posted in this thread and had a number of posts deleted for what appeared to be advertising an upfront fee company. Something isn't adding up. I am all for open discussion.


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## DavidnRobin (Jan 11, 2017)

Why state falsehoods? What is your purpose?  Why write in BOLD?  Heck, why not CAPS as well?

Where was your specific TS presentation?
Where is this mystery location that has VSE MFs listed?  Only here on this lyin' and conniving' TUG group for VSE (Vistana) that has a posted MF database.
Why were you fingerprinted - was it for some kind of Notary?  No one - zilch, nada, has anyone here ever (as in NEVER) reported getting fingerprinted?  For what purpose?

Why are we doubtful?  Because this particular forum has years and years of diverse experience?  And no one is paid here, and no one here works for VSE - so what is our motivation too deceive or give false info.

You expect us to sit idlly by and allow misinfo to be posted and not call you on it?  
This forum is definitely not for you - still trying to understand your motivation for lying?
Then react like you have been somehow wronged?
Odd.

btw - DeniseM is an expert...
You have zero credibility - so unless you have something real to offer - why bother?


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## Janet Godkin (Jan 11, 2017)

Ok this is the last I am going to say. I just Googled it- Florida Insurance Law (since 2008) requires fingerprinting. So the fact is we were fingerprinted, but it was the insurance company's requirement. Google it yourself. Ps. Better to remain silent and be thought a *fool than* to speak and to *remove all doubt*.


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## dioxide45 (Jan 11, 2017)

Janet Godkin said:


> Ok this is the last I am going to say. I just Googled it- Florida Insurance Law (since 2008) requires fingerprinting. So the fact is we were fingerprinted, but it was the insurance company's requirement. Google it yourself. Ps. Better to remain silent and be thought a *fool than* to speak and to *remove all doubt*.


If you Googled it and found it, why not simply post a link to it to *remove all doubt?*


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## dioxide45 (Jan 11, 2017)

Janet Godkin said:


> Ok this is the last I am going to say. I just Googled it- Florida Insurance Law (since 2008) requires fingerprinting. So the fact is we were fingerprinted, but it was the insurance company's requirement. Google it yourself. Ps. Better to remain silent and be thought a *fool than* to speak and to *remove all doubt*.


I Googled it. If you are referring to this, it applies to those seeking a license to become an agent in Florida. This may be a real estate or insurance or even any other type of agent. I see no mention of timeshare, but it would seem that the agent that sold you the timeshare was probably fingerprinted at some point in time.

A LOT of people on this forum have purchased timeshares in Florida and I don't recall any of them indicating they had to provide fingerprints.


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## Janet Godkin (Jan 11, 2017)

Keep Googling- you'll find it. Or here Chicago Land Title Company 
http://ricklevin.com/Libraries/Wintrust/1400_73rd_Street_-_title.sflb.ashx


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## DeniseM (Jan 11, 2017)

Janet - What does that have to do with buying a STARWOOD/VISTANA timeshare???

Your profile says you own at Westin Palm Desert (which is not actually the name of any resort) but is not in Florida...


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## dioxide45 (Jan 11, 2017)

Janet Godkin said:


> Keep Googling- you'll find it. Or here Chicago Land Title Company
> http://ricklevin.com/Libraries/Wintrust/1400_73rd_Street_-_title.sflb.ashx


Well, this is a sample title insurance policy for the Illinois. I did find the one reference to "fingerprint"

_FOR COOK COUNTY PROPERTY: FOR COMMITMENT ONLY EFFECTIVE JUNE 1, 2009, IF ANY DOCUMENT OF CONVEYANCE FOR COOK COUNTY 3 CHICAGO TITLE INSURANCE COMPANY 1401 008886034 D2 JG JG 07/16/12 14:00:22 COMMITMENT FOR TITLE INSURANCE SCHEDULE B (CONTINUED) ORDER NO.: CMB1C06R 3/11 ML PAGE B RESIDENTIAL REAL PROPERTY IS TO BE NOTARIZED BY AN ILLINOIS NOTARY PUBLIC, PUBLIC ACT 95-988 REQUIRES THE COMPLETION OF A NOTARIAL RECORD FOR EACH GRANTOR WHOSE SIGNATURE IS NOTARIZED. *THE NOTARIAL RECORD WILL INCLUDE THE THUMBPRINT OR FINGERPRINT OF THE GRANTOR*. THE GRANTOR MUST PRESENT IDENTIFICATION DOCUMENTS THAT ARE VALID; ARE ISSUED BY STATE OR FEDERAL GOVERNMENT AGENCY; BEAR THE PHOTOGRAPHIC IMAGE OF THE INDIVIDUAL'S FACE; AND BEAR THE INDIVIDUAL'S SIGNATURE. THE COMPANY WILL CHARGE $25.00 PER NOTARIAL RECORD._
_
*Even if applicable, when purchasing a timeshare you are the grantee, not the grantor.*_


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## Janet Godkin (Jan 11, 2017)

Anyway - it was the Chicago Land Title Insurance Company- they cover many states- that doc just happens to be for Illinois. Maybe they thought we were signing up to be insurance agents LOL- or thought we were the "grantors." Who knows- bottom line is- we
were fingerprinted.  Call them & ask if it bothers you that much.


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## Beefnot (Jan 11, 2017)

The fingerprinting must have been for some sort of notarization of signatures, which I believe is always required for a physical notarization.


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## Janet Godkin (Jan 11, 2017)

California was one of the first states to pass a law requiring the notaries to obtain a fingerprint of the signer. The Sunshine State passes this law in 1996, and it remains in effect to this day. It’s important to note that not all notarial acts conducted in California require a fingerprint. Only those related to estate transactions, such as deed of trust, grant and deed, are required.

The purpose of obtaining a signer’s fingerprint is to prevent fraud by verifying the signer’s identify. Driver’s licenses and signatures are easily forged, but it’s incredibly difficult to forge a fingerprint, especially when it’s taken in front of an unbiased third-party like a notary public. If a notarial act requires a signature, the signer typically placed his or her thumb on an ink pad and then places it on the notary’s journal. This journal is safeguarded by the notary and should not be given to anyone else, which further increases the security of the notarial act.


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## Janet Godkin (Jan 11, 2017)

You're right- there was a lot of people around & signing this & that- we were caught off guar but I think you're in fact correct- it seems it was a notary.


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## dioxide45 (Jan 11, 2017)

Perhaps if you signed a mortgage you may have had to provide a fingerprint, but a buyer in most states does not sign a deed.

However, you made it seem somewhat sinister that you were required to provide a print, far from how you are selling it now.


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## Janet Godkin (Jan 11, 2017)

Yawn- you're starting to bore me. Please just admit you were wrong & that I am not a liar.


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## dioxide45 (Jan 11, 2017)

Janet Godkin said:


> Yawn- you're starting to bore me. Please just admit you were wrong & that I am not a liar.


We can't really go back and look at what you posted, can we? Since you deleted it...


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## DeniseM (Jan 11, 2017)

Since "Janet's" claims are clearly posted in the wrong forum - and "she" doesn't seem to know where "she" actually bought, or what exactly happened, and this is an old thread, I'm closing this thread.


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