# Vacation Internale confusion and help needed



## bradfordHI (Dec 21, 2016)

I bought then canceled VRI. They own 3 condos in the state o

 

 f Hawaii. 

See attached docs. Everything else runs out in 5 years. 

Any VRI owners out there? What are we all going to do. Cram in 3 units on Kauai. 
They said they own something in Hawaii. Yes the do. They own 3 condos. Not a SINGLE BUILDING. NOT ONE. THEY OWN THREE CONDOS. THATS IT.


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## DaveNV (Dec 21, 2016)

Are they not planning to renew the leases?  VRI is more of a management company, not a builder.  

Dave


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## T_R_Oglodyte (Dec 21, 2016)

bradfordHI said:


> I bought then canceled VRI. They own 3 condos in the state oView attachment 3077 View attachment 3077 f Hawaii.
> 
> See attached docs. Everything else runs out in 5 years.
> 
> ...





DaveNW said:


> Are they not planning to renew the leases?  VRI is more of a management company, not a builder.
> 
> Dave


What Dave said.

VRI is simply a management company.  They don't own any resorts or condos.  They contract with actual owners - such as Homeowners Associations - to provide management services.

The resorts you show above appear to be part of Vacation Internationale, a vacation club that has contracted with VRI to provide management.  viowners.com is Vacation Internationale, not VRI.  They are completely separate companies.


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## bradfordHI (Dec 21, 2016)

T_R_Oglodyte said:


> What Dave said.
> 
> VRI is simply a management company.  They don't own any resorts or condos.  They contract with actual owners - such as Homeowners Associations - to provide management services.
> 
> The resorts you show above appear to be part of Vacation Internationale, a vacation club that has contracted with VRI to provide management.  viowners.com is Vacation Internationale, not VRI.  They are completely separate companies.



Please answer. So What does VI have in Hawaii. That was not an answer. 

It looks very clear to me.


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## sue1947 (Dec 22, 2016)

VI is Vacation Internationale, a points based timeshare with resorts around the country:
http://vacationinternationale.com/
VRI is a timeshare management company.  It manages a bunch of different timeshares.  These are mostly the smaller independently owned ones.   
http://vriresorts.com/
Because they manage multiple independent timeshares, VRI has a kind of mini- exchange system between the resorts.   Vacation Internationale has agreements with several other systems (Worldmark is another example) where they make available a few units in a few resorts for exchange between owners.  Those 3 Hawaii units are some of the  VI units that they are making available to the VRI owners.

Yes, the names are similar, but they aren't the same company.

Sue


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## Bwolf (Dec 22, 2016)

VRI uses TPI as its exchange platform.  There is plenty of inventory.  

https://www.tradingplaces.com/


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## T_R_Oglodyte (Dec 22, 2016)

bradfordHI said:


> Please answer. So What does VI have in Hawaii. That was not an answer.
> 
> It looks very clear to me.


Begging your pardon, but you asked what VRI owned in Hawaii.  My answer was that they own nothing,  I also pointed out that you appear to have confused VI and VRI;

As to what VI owns in Hawaii, you are at least as capable as I am to look that up.  So I suggest you go to the VI website and look at their list of resorts.  Then you will know at least as much as I do about what VI owns in Hawaii.


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## bradfordHI (Dec 22, 2016)

T_R_Oglodyte said:


> Begging your pardon, but you asked what VRI owned in Hawaii.  My answer was that they own nothing,  I also pointed out that you appear to have confused VI and VRI;
> 
> As to what VI owns in Hawaii, you are at least as capable as I am to look that up.  So I suggest you go to the VI website and look at their list of resorts.  Then you will know at least as much as I do about what VI owns in Hawaii.




I never relizied my typo. I meant VI. My apologies for the confusion. But I do see they are connected now but my frustrations are with VI.  That list is so deceiving it's disgustingly wrong. They own barely anything and how are they still selling it? I guess the owners who bought in the 80s are happy but any new owner should be told the truth. 

Whoever set this up made millions and now what are the VI owners supposed to do? In 10 years they are going to have a riot on hand.


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## bradfordHI (Dec 22, 2016)

Bwolf said:


> VRI uses TPI as its exchange platform.  There is plenty of inventory.
> 
> https://www.tradingplaces.com/



Inventory now but in a few years they won't have much and almost nothing in 10 years. That's my point.


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## bradfordHI (Dec 22, 2016)

bradfordHI said:


> Inventory now but in a few years they won't have much and almost nothing in 10 years. That's my point.



TPI is an exchange and they don't own any of those hawaii properties either. If they don't get any deeded owners in Hawaii to exchange I can never exchange into Hawaii. I'm confused to the future of trading places. It's another exchange company that causes more anger then solves any issues. They show 12 properties in Hawaii but you can't get any of those unless someone else deposits their week. 
I think TPI and other exchange companies will slowly be phased out. They only make money if we sign up and use them. 
What's your thoughts on it. Very curious.


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## Passepartout (Dec 22, 2016)

VRI, VI, MROP, and other smaller exchanges don't have much Hawaii inventory because they can't get them at a reasonable cost. If you want Hawaii, and don't mind $2000-$3000 a week in MF plus separate taxes, I suggest you buy into one of the hotel based chains. If you want nice resorts, well located and maintained and want MF in the under $1k a year range, the above mentioned smaller exchanges are for you- as long as you get your Hawaii fix through rental, VRBO, 'Pleasant Hawaiian Holidays' and the like, etc.

You're welcome to your opinion, but the fact that they consciously avoided high priced resort presence is hardly a sign of their impending demise.

Jim


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## bradfordHI (Dec 22, 2016)

Passepartout said:


> VRI, VI, MROP, and other smaller exchanges don't have much Hawaii inventory because they can't get them at a reasonable cost. If you want Hawaii, and don't mind $2000-$3000 a week in MF plus separate taxes, I suggest you buy into one of the hotel based chains. If you want nice resorts, well located and maintained and want MF in the under $1k a year range, the above mentioned smaller exchanges are for you- as long as you get your Hawaii fix through rental, VRBO, 'Pleasant Hawaiian Holidays' and the like, etc.
> 
> You're welcome to your opinion, but the fact that they consciously avoided high priced resort presence is hardly a sign of their impending demise.
> 
> Jim



That's my point. 2000 in MF a week in Hawaii gives you two weeks anywhere else with TPI. Or 1000 for 2 weeks anywhere else. 

So I see TPI going away. 

I own a lot and my point is exactly what your saying, I make more money putting my hawaii weeks on VRBO, which is mainly people like me putting our Hawaii weeks on it and renting it out and making money. I make more money renting it then getting through exchanging.  

It's a real question. I'm not going to use TPI anymore and other hawaii owners aren't either. At least from other owners I talk to. 

I make more money renting my units on VRBO and Airbnb because it's so easy. 

Therefore these exchange companies will have a major inventory problem in a few years. They need me more then I need them. 

Or do you see it another way? 

Does that make sense?


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## Passepartout (Dec 22, 2016)

Thanks, Bradford. I have no need of an annual Hawaii fix, and use VRBO when I do. I use my VRI weeks 'stateside' or exchange through RCI at much lower cost than owning one with significant exposure (and associated cost) in Hawaii.

You seem to feel that if exchanges don't take your deposits they are doomed. "They need me more then I need them." OK. You are welcome to feel that way, but. So what?


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## bradfordHI (Dec 22, 2016)

Passepartout said:


> Thanks, Bradford. I have no need of an annual Hawaii fix, and use VRBO when I do. I use my VRI weeks 'stateside' or exchange through RCI at much lower cost than owning one with significant exposure (and associated cost) in Hawaii.
> 
> You seem to feel that if exchanges don't take your deposits they are doomed. "They need me more then I need them." OK. You are welcome to feel that way, but. So what?




I think it will be harder and harder to get into high demand places and would like an intelligent discussion. That's all. 

I cancelled VI because they don't really own anything in Hawaii. 

The exchange question is real. I guess you don't forsee it happening. But I do. I guess you don't understand my point. 

Have you noticed that high demand places are harder to get in 2016

I've tried to get into Atlantis for a few years and nothing during a good time has opened up in 2016. 

Have you had better luck?


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## bizaro86 (Dec 22, 2016)

The multiple issues and mistaken identity are masking what is probably a real issue for VI owners. What will happen to the club when a large amount of the high desirability inventory is off lease. I know VI sold lots of "expiring" contracts, so the number of owners will presumably decline as well.

Of course, the Hawaii properties are probably more costly than average, so maybe they'll be able to reduce MF to offset the loss.


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## Egret1986 (Dec 22, 2016)

It's a shame that the title of this thread is VRI Scam.  Sure, the thread might get more looks, but......


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## bradfordHI (Dec 23, 2016)

Egret1986 said:


> It's a shame that the title of this thread is VRI Scam.  Sure, the thread might get more looks, but......




Repost it. I meant VI. I made a mistake thinking VRI and VI are one in the same. But at least you reviewed the documents and agree that what they are doing is ridiculous. 

VRI is connected to VI but either way it seems you are a long time user so please post the information in the correct place. 

At least they will listen to you.


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## Egret1986 (Dec 23, 2016)

bradfordHI said:


> But at least you reviewed the documents and agree that what they are doing is ridiculous.   Where did this idea come from?
> 
> VRI is connected to VI but either way it seems you are a long time user so please post the information in the correct place.
> 
> At least they will listen to you.



I didn't review any documents nor do I agree that what they are doing is ridiculous.  I don't have any opinion other than about the title of your post.  VRI is a resort management company.  I have no thoughts one way or the other about VI.  

Only moderators can move posts.  "At least they will listen to you."  Who is "they"?  I have no intention in getting up on any soapbox about this issue that you are obviously so worked up about.  Only the title got my attention regarding a VRI scam; not this post's content.  You're misinformed about my thoughts, cares or abilities.


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## sue1947 (Dec 23, 2016)

bradfordHI said:


> Repost it. I meant VI. I made a mistake thinking VRI and VI are one in the same. But at least you reviewed the documents and agree that what they are doing is ridiculous.
> 
> *VRI is connected to VI* but either way it seems you are a long time user so please post the information in the correct place.
> 
> At least they will listen to you.



What exactly, in your mind, is the connection between VRI and VI?  What is your point in this whole thread?  What is the backstory and what is the real issue.   VI has 7 different resorts in Hawaii; which is more than 3 condos.   Yes, they expire in a set number of years but that isn't a secret or a scam.  If you don't want to own in that type of a system, then don't.  Your choice.  If you bought without fully understanding what you bought, that's not a scam, that's an uninformed buyer.  
You seem to be quick to jump in and draw conclusions based on very limited information.   If you are interested in a timeshare, you should slow way down and do lots of investigating to figure out what works for you.  

Sue


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## bradfordHI (Dec 23, 2016)

Egret1986 said:


> I didn't review any documents nor do I agree that what they are doing is ridiculous.  I don't have any opinion other than about the title of your post.  VRI is a resort management company.  I have no thoughts one way or the other about VI.
> 
> Only moderators can move posts.  "At least they will listen to you."  Who is "they"?  I have no intention in getting up on any soapbox about this issue that you are obviously so worked up about.  Only the title got my attention regarding a VRI scam; not this post's content.  You're misinformed about my thoughts, cares or abilities.




Your right VRI is not a timeshare company, they rent properties out and own nothing as well. They are an manager and exchange company making money from us.
 My mistake.
but it's weird that you defend them.  What does VRI do? Why are you even responding to this post?


sue1947 said:


> What exactly, in your mind, is the connection between VRI and VI?  What is your point in this whole thread?  What is the backstory and what is the real issue.   VI has 7 different resorts in Hawaii; which is more than 3 condos.   Yes, they expire in a set number of years but that isn't a secret or a scam.  If you don't want to own in that type of a system, then don't.  Your choice.  If you bought without fully understanding what you bought, that's not a scam, that's an uninformed buyer.
> You seem to be quick to jump in and draw conclusions based on very limited information.   If you are interested in a timeshare, you should slow way down and do lots of investigating to figure out what works for you.
> 
> Sue



Sue. 
Stating VI owns properties in any state is factually accurate but not ANYWHERE NEAR THE TRUTH. 

They own 3 condos (3 single units) in Hawaii ( 0 ZERO units in Newport, Oregon)

They don't own a single entire resort or property!!! Anywhere in the world. It's a scam. 

 My point is that they claim all this inventory yet they will have none in a few years. 
Why are you defending them? Have you read their documents. 

VI is a basically a 40 year ponzi scheme. It's over in 10 years.
 You have been a TUG member for awhile. If you read those documents and disagree then please tell everyone that I am wrong. Link is below. 

However, I did read them and cancelled so I am trying to help all VI owners and if you can explain why that VI IS STILL selling anything then let me know. It's worthless. 

I am warning people yet you and others are defending them.  This is absurd. 

Who do you work for? 

https://www.viowners.com/vioa/docs/pos.pdf


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## bradfordHI (Dec 23, 2016)

Egret1986 said:


> I didn't review any documents nor do I agree that what they are doing is ridiculous.  I don't have any opinion other than about the title of your post.  VRI is a resort management company.  I have no thoughts one way or the other about VI.
> 
> Only moderators can move posts.  "At least they will listen to you."  Who is "they"?  I have no intention in getting up on any soapbox about this issue that you are obviously so worked up about.  Only the title got my attention regarding a VRI scam; not this post's content.  You're misinformed about my thoughts, cares or abilities.




Your right VRI is not a timeshare company, they rent properties out and own nothing as well. They are an manager and exchange company making money from us.
 My mistake.
but it's weird that you defend them.  What does VRI do? Why are you even responding to this post?


sue1947 said:


> What exactly, in your mind, is the connection between VRI and VI?  What is your point in this whole thread?  What is the backstory and what is the real issue.   VI has 7 different resorts in Hawaii; which is more than 3 condos.   Yes, they expire in a set number of years but that isn't a secret or a scam.  If you don't want to own in that type of a system, then don't.  Your choice.  If you bought without fully understanding what you bought, that's not a scam, that's an uninformed buyer.
> You seem to be quick to jump in and draw conclusions based on very limited information.   If you are interested in a timeshare, you should slow way down and do lots of investigating to figure out what works for you.
> 
> Sue



Sue. 
Stating VI owns properties in any state is factually accurate but not ANYWHERE NEAR THE TRUTH. 

They own 3 condos (3 single units) in Hawaii ( 0 ZERO units in Newport, Oregon)

They don't own a single entire resort or property!!! Anywhere in the world. It's a scam. 

 My point is that they claim all this inventory yet they will have none in a few years. 
Why are you defending them? Have you read their documents. 

VI is a basically a 40 year ponzi scheme which Is over in 10 years.
 You have been a TUG member for awhile. If you read those documents and disagree then please tell everyone that I am wrong. Link is below. 

However, I did read them and cancelled so I am trying to help all VI owners and if you can explain why that VI IS STILL selling anything then let me know. It's worthless. 

I am warning people yet you and others are defending them.  This is absurd. 

Who do you work for? 

https://www.viowners.com/vioa/docs/pos.pdf


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## DeniseM (Dec 23, 2016)

bradfordHI - No one is DEFENDING VI.  People are just trying to HELP YOU understand how this works.

Your antagonistic responses are not appropriate - if you want to continue to post on TUG, you need to post respectfully or not at all.  Consider this a formal warning.


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## sue1947 (Dec 23, 2016)

bradfordHI said:


> Who do you work for?



What in the world is your agenda?  You clearly have no idea what you are talking about and when we try to help you understand, you attack.  I'm done.  

Sue


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## bizaro86 (Dec 23, 2016)

It's too bad actually, because "what happens to VI when their RTUs age out" has the potential to be a great topic. It would probably require an accurate title and a less aggressive tone. Maybe I'll start a new thread.


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## JohnPaul (Dec 24, 2016)

I'll defend VI (Vacation Internationale).    

When you bought VI you had to sign a document which spelled out that many units are not in the program permanently.   VI was initially set up as 40 or 25 year right to use contracts.  Many of the VI units were structured in such a way that a given date (which seemed a long time away in the 70's and 80's but are now coming due) would go out of the system.   However, you have to realize that points will also go out of the system when people's 25 and 40 year contracts end.  There will always be enough inventory to support the current available points.  

If the poster will look more closely at the document they put up (which is readily available from VI - so nothing being hidden), many of the units are owned on a permanent basis (and many are not - especially in Hawaii).  VI knows that this is an issue and has been both adding new permanent inventory and working to convert inventory to permanent.  For example, Mazatlan was all converted to permanent.

All of the units in the document published by the poster are available until their end date as clearly spelled out in the document.  Those end dates range from 2018 to 2040.

If you buy from VI, there is a bold print section of the contract that spells out that many units are not permanent.

VI is an excellent company that provides a good product to it's members.  The maintenance (vs reserve) portion of our fees have not gone up in 8 years.  The reserve portion has and they have been putting a lot of money into the units. 

FYI - VRI was the management company for VI for many years which helps increase the confusion.  There is no connection whatsoever between the two any more.


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## bradfordHI (Dec 24, 2016)

JohnPaul said:


> I'll defend VI (Vacation Internationale).
> 
> When you bought VI you had to sign a document which spelled out that many units are not in the program permanently.   VI was initially set up as 40 or 25 year right to use contracts.  Many of the VI units were structured in such a way that a given date (which seemed a long time away in the 70's and 80's but are now coming due) would go out of the system.   However, you have to realize that points will also go out of the system when people's 25 and 40 year contracts end.  There will always be enough inventory to support the current available points.
> 
> ...



Thanks for your post. 

Mazatalan to replace Hawaii? That's not good trading power, that's bad! .  (Almost all Mexico is right to use, also)
 Read the document. Show me one page from the company showing any ability to purchase new properties. Bank loan, acquisition team? Anything. 

They don't have the capital or any funds to purchase new properties or companies. Every year more and more leases expire. Less and less inventory.  Hawaii lost 4 units in the 12 months. 

It's a serious issue and I am a commercial real estate broker and read all the documents. It's bad. 

You comments on Maintenance fees are actually a horrible sign because they would go UP...if they were planning to purchase something. Flat is bad!!! It actually shows my point.
Leases expire, thus, less rent, so no increase in MF. Less inventory to manage, thus no increases in MF. 

I think the original founders set up a great, right to use and now it's near the end of it. The 80s owners are happy, new owners are being scammed.  It's a SCAM now! Do not buy VI. 

I would never advise anyone to purchase VI unless they know it's a 8 to 10 year right to use. With about 30 apartment units, (no resorts, no land, just 30 individual condo units) around the US and Mazatlan (which is not a good property or location) 

I will correct myself if you can show the documents or explain how they plan to raise money to buy more properties. Unless you work for them or know something that we don't,  please explain how. 

Thanks for your input.


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## bradfordHI (Dec 24, 2016)

bradfordHI said:


> Thanks for your post.
> 
> Mazatalan to replace Hawaii? That's not good trading power, that's bad! .  (Almost all Mexico is right to use, also)
> Read the document. Show me one page from the company showing any ability to purchase new properties. Bank loan, acquisition team? Anything.
> ...





bradfordHI said:


> Thanks for your post.
> 
> Mazatalan to replace Hawaii? That's not good trading power, that's bad! .  (Almost all Mexico is right to use, also)
> Read the document. Show me one page from the company showing any ability to purchase new properties. Bank loan, acquisition team? Anything.
> ...


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## bradfordHI (Dec 24, 2016)

See attached Files.


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## bogey21 (Dec 24, 2016)

sue1947 said:


> What in the world is your agenda?  You clearly have no idea what you are talking about and when we try to help you understand, you attack.  I'm done.



Well said!

George


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