# How do you know if you have termites?



## bailey (Jun 11, 2007)

I noticed what I thought was "dirt" up above my kitchen window.  After trying to scrub it off, it looked as though the paint was missing.  Small round brown spots.  I've also noticed this brown fine sand type substance on my window sill.  I wipe it down and it usually returns.  Today, I was looking up around my kitchen light and noticed the same type of "brown spots" with one having some type of protrusion from it.  I tried to get it with a tweezers and found the area to be somewhat "soft".  I also found the sandy substance near my sliding glass door in the dining room.  Could this be termites or something else??  
Calling an exterminator:  Will they all just tell me that is what it is so they can sock it too me?

What can expect to pay if it is termites?  Low end/high end??  YIKES!!!  HELP!


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## UWSurfer (Jun 12, 2007)

Sounds like a classic form or termites. 

Fumigation of the house (tenting) runs a couple of thousand $ in LA.  In addition to killing any infestation it's important to identify all the effected wood and repair or replace that which you can.

I had a home where when we opened up a wall to remodel a bathroom found many of the interior 2x4's effected. We used the opportunity to replace that wood while it was opened up and didn't find any active termites.  It was a battle as every couple of years we'd find something and again the trick was identifying old damage vs new.

If you have reoccurring droppings it a fair to good bet there are active termites and you'll have to dig into the soft wood to see.  You can also apply spot treatments of copper sulfied which you paint onto effected wood if you have a limited spot...but it's usually better to replace effected wood when you can.


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## T_R_Oglodyte (Jun 12, 2007)

sounds like either dry wood termites or carpenter ants - either one is bad news and will require the services of a professional exterminator.  

Most likely your house will need to be fumigated.  An examination will also need to be done to determine the extent of damage, and repairs will be needed.

It's time to start contacting friends and acquaintances for recommendations for an inspector and pest control contractor.  You ought to be able to find a building inspector who will provide only an inspection service without being tied to a pest control contractor.  Often those individuals provide building inspection services for people buying or selling houses.


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## joestein (Jun 12, 2007)

Those sound like mud tubes.  Where do you live?  If in the NE, they are probably termites that live in the ground.  Tenting won't help, exterminators need to treat the ground they come up from.

We had a massive termite issue about 4 years ago, finally after many treatments, it is now gone.  Luckily it was in an area of the house (kitchen island) that doesn't support anything .

Joe


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## T_R_Oglodyte (Jun 12, 2007)

joestein said:


> Those sound like mud tubes.  Where do you live?  If in the NE, they are probably termites that live in the ground.  Tenting won't help, exterminators need to treat the ground they come up from.
> 
> We had a massive termite issue about 4 years ago, finally after many treatments, it is now gone.  Luckily it was in an area of the house (kitchen island) that doesn't support anything .
> 
> Joe



The OP said that the brown was *above* the kitchen window.  That's a long way from the ground for a mudtube,  In my experience, subterranean termites build a mud tube from the ground to the closest wood surface.  Underneath our house in the SF Bay area, they built a mud tube about 12-inches long to reach the joists.  

After establishing contact the subterraneans move around in the wood, seldom reveal themselves on the surface.  They need moisture, and exposing the surface would create drying. That's why they build the mudtube - they need to seal their track from outside air.  In one corner of our house they had gone completely through the sills and studs and were beginning to eat the wood is the ceiling joists.  Despite this extensive damage, there as no evidence of their presence internally or externally.  In some places the wood was carefully eaten so that just a paper thin veneer was left on the outside to maintain the separation from outside air.

Drywood termites are different, though.  They don't need mudtubes and they can show themselves on the surface.  So what she is describing sounds a lot more like dry wood termites to me.

Perhaps subterranean termites in the NE are different from those on the West Coast.  But out here I've never seen mud tubes that far off the ground - mud tubes are always just big enough to create a ground-wood connection.


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## bailey (Jun 12, 2007)

I live in Northern California.  I'm really hoping I'm just "seeing things"!!!  Sounds like it's going to be an expensive mess to me.


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## Floridaski (Jun 12, 2007)

It sounds like you have termites.  I would call a larger National company for an inspection.  The latest "spot treatments" are not always effective long term.  To get rid of an active nest, you will more then likely need to tent your house.  

It is not as expensive as many people think and it will save your home from further damage.  Call somebody like Orkin and then start looking for local companies that have been in business for a long time.  Most companies will also offer an annual insurance program for termites once they have tented your house.  It may be worth paying the annual premium once you have your home treated.

I have had two homes tented and everything worked out fine.  It is kind of a hassle, but it is great to know your home is termite free.


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## T_R_Oglodyte (Jun 12, 2007)

Floridaski said:


> It sounds like you have termites.  I would call a larger National company for an inspection.  The latest "spot treatments" are not always effective long term.  To get rid of an active nest, you will more then likely need to tent your house.
> 
> It is not as expensive as many people think and it will save your home from further damage.  Call somebody like Orkin and then start looking for local companies that have been in business for a long time.  Most companies will also offer an annual insurance program for termites once they have tented your house.  It may be worth paying the annual premium once you have your home treated.
> 
> I have had two homes tented and everything worked out fine.  It is kind of a hassle, but it is great to know your home is termite free.



You may also need to make some foundation modifications so that the termites cannot simply use their old access routes.  In my case, it involved raising the foundation perimeter wall by as much as two feet to get sufficiently far above grade.  I also excavated several feet of dirt from a crawl space under the house so that the joists and the ground were sufficiently separated to prevent termites from reconstructing their tubes.

Ongoing preventive programs are nice, but should not be used as a substitute for fixing the basic problems that caused the infestation in the first place.


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## camachinist (Jun 12, 2007)

A picture of the debris and damage might help determine if it is fecal pellets (drywood) or mud tube debris (subs) or other...

Been there done that had mud tubes 10 feet off the ground and termites eating sheetrock paper. Two biggest weapons were mitigating soil moisture conditions adjacent to house and discovering an old stash of Chlordane. Tried the newer pyrethroids with limited results. Injected boric acid solution into walls. We're slab on grade so I had to selectively drill through the slab and inject sub-slab. Residual bait traps are all that remain.

For most folks, it's a task best left to a professional. I have the construction skills and equipment as well as the safety equipment to apply chemicals and a working knowledge of their function. Targeted properly, a little goes a long way. 

I dealt with drywood termites in my last house and boric acid did pretty good. Swarmers were always a problem (coming from other houses in the neighborhood) but proactive applications of deterrents during the swarming period was effective. I've gotten so good I can predict when our subterraneans will swarm within a couple of days (usually in early April, though a bit earlier this year due to weather). We live in a rural area and there is always dead wood around, hence termites..

There's lots of information on the internet so read up and become educated about the subject. My experience with termite abatement contractors indicates competence and honesty is widely variable. Being educated helps seperate the experienced from the BS'ers..

Good luck!

Pat


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## Jestjoan (Jun 12, 2007)

*My favorite termite story*

Artie Mae Jeter was an elderly widow living in Tuskegee, Ala. With little formal education, Jeter, who died in 1999, had one prized possession, her home. 

Jeter's home was destroyed by termites. And Orkin, while disingenuously trying to build the woman's trust, sought to conceal the damage by propping up the house with jacks and concrete blocks, according to court documents and press reports. Jeter was so afraid her floor would cave in, she didn't have her family over for what would be her last Thanksgiving. 

After her death, Jeter's family won an $81 million jury verdict. The Alabama Supreme Court reduced that to $2.3 million -- but nonetheless scolded Orkin for a scheme that reached top regional management and was "replete with evidence indicating deceitful conduct." 

YMMV


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## T_R_Oglodyte (Jun 12, 2007)

camachinist said:


> *My experience with termite abatement contractors indicates competence and honesty is widely variable. *Being educated helps seperate the experienced from the BS'ers..
> 
> Good luck!
> 
> Pat



Come on, Pat! You don't need to be that understated and cautious in describing the industry. 

My bonded contractor had let his bond lapse and dropped his insurance coverage.  About one month after he realized his report calling for $300 of repairs had missed about $15,000 of work in (in 1976 dollars - that would be more like $50,000 of work now), he shut down his operation and disappeared from sight.  This was after he had been in business for 15 years.


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## bailey (Jun 12, 2007)

Do you know if homeowner's insurance covers termite damage?


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## bailey (Jun 12, 2007)

Just read my policy and "no" it does not cover termite damage.  I have 2 companies coming out for a free inspection.  I guess I'll compare their results and go from there.  I keep hoping it's my imagination!!!


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## T_R_Oglodyte (Jun 13, 2007)

bailey said:


> Just read my policy and "no" it does not cover termite damage.  I have 2 companies coming out for a free inspection.  I guess I'll compare their results and go from there.  I keep hoping it's my imagination!!!



IMHO - a "free" inspection is worth exactly what you pay for it.

I would pay the price to have a professional with no vested interest come out and provide an unbiased, professional opinion.


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## mepiccolo (Jun 13, 2007)

We live in Southern California near the beach where termites are a big problem.  When we bought our house the back upper deck patio wood of our house was so eaten away by termites that it was unsafe to go up there and we had to completely redo the wood braces.  We discovered signs of termite infestation again last year and used the Orange Oil treatment, which was expensive but way more convenient, being that we have 2 little ones and 3 big dogs.  We just stayed home, didn't have to worry about our children, pets, food or plants being poisoned.  The other good thing is we just have to pay like $250 a year to have them continue to come out and keep the house from every being infested again.  They come out and check every year and retreat the house for that amount.  So even though it was expensive, we will just stay on their maintenance plan now and not be hit with a huge expense again in 5 years.  (Plus I have allergies so I was concerned had we gone the regular route how miserable I would have been coming back into the house).


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## shar (Jun 14, 2007)

My secreatary told me a story about her friend in Ohio. One day she came home from work shut the front door, heard a noise and then the front of her house feel off. It had been eaten by termites and they never knew they had any problem.  Yes she swears this is a true story.

Shar


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## bailey (Jun 15, 2007)

The Terminix guy came yesterday and said that it was definitely termites.  He said he did not see any structural damage and quoted me $1400 for a one year plan and then $250 every year after that or $1600 for two years with the same $250 a year for the extended warranty.  Clarke is coming today.  

Mepiccolo, what company did you use?


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## mepiccolo (Jun 15, 2007)

Hi there, we're in Southern California and we used Jeff Hiatt Termite (they're based out of Lancaster but they cover all Southern California.  For our house and little back house/2 deck patio out back we paid $2,400 and it's $350, not $250 for yearly maintenance (sorry I just pulled out the contract to give you the information).  It was expensive but we were pretty happy with their work though.  Given our 3 big dogs it would have been really difficult to just go away for a couple of days!  Their phone #(800) 464-7184.  By the way they come out to your house and do a free quote.  I heard about them on 640 KFI and I'm not sure but maybe there's a promotion w/KFI advertising that if you mention them you get a discount (you might want to check out KFI web site to check that out).


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## bailey (Jun 17, 2007)

Clarke came out on Friday and quoted $1200 and $450 per year after that for the things that they put in the ground that is supposed to keep them away.  So I guess they're pretty comparable.  Terminix states they will cover any structural damage on any "new" infestations after the initial application.  I didn't see that in the Clarke contract.


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## camachinist (Jun 17, 2007)

Yep, and the company decides what's "new" and what's "old", since they're not going to open all walls to look. Termites are very difficult casualty problem to quantify accurately, IME. 

If using a bait system, they should be checking the traps every couple months and baiting as necessary. FWIW, a system with 24 traps and 10 baits cost me ~350.00. It did the job, but trapping is ongoing, with residual baiting as needed. I've been doing it for 4 years now.

Pat


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