# URGENT - To rescind or not to rescind upgrade... Tough call



## nirm (Jul 18, 2016)

Good afternoon everyone,

I recently upgraded my West 57th Studio Plus Plat. to their new development (under construction): The Residences which is essentially an exclusive 29 units penthouse conversion in the Hilton Hotel, Ave. of the Americas. I have a few days left to rescind my purchase (apparently it's doable by FAX) and I would like your opinion on what's best to do.

Now here is my dilemma:

I bought my West 57th St. timeshare direct from Hilton 2 years ago: $58,900 with 54,000 bonus points. Apparently I did well for the bonus points, but not so good overall for buying direct; I only learnt this too late...
I am paying roughly ~ 1500 MF/year for 5250 points (conv at 50:1 HH => 262,500 HH points). I know the resale value is not so good, about ~ $25,000, correct?

I bought last friday a week in The Residences, in a Studio Deluxe Penthouse (or something like this), which sells for $108,000. They agreed to use the West 57th St. timeshare as a downpayment of $58,900 (full money back), and gave me 45,000 bonus points. Overall, with the discount, I need to pay an extra $49,000.
I will be paying about $1,800 MF/year for 14,400 points, which convert to 720,000 HH points at 50:1.

I have 3 options:
1) Rescind and keep my West 57th St., carry on paying $1,500 per year for 5250 points. Maybe sell later and feel raped as the value of my TS has dropped sooo much.

2) Do nothing and keep my new TS in The Residences, end up paying $49,000 extra and get many more points for roughly the same MF every year.

3) Rescind and sell my West 57th TS and buy another TS at resale price to get 14,000+ points. I convert to HH points a lot; the conversion would be only 25:1, which is not great.

As I mentioned previously, I convert to HH, but I am worried that what I can get today with 720,000 points might drop drastically over the years with the upcoming devaluations. I know there was a massive devaluation in 2013, but I do not have enough historical data to make an educated guess over what the devaluation would look like in the coming years.
I also used the Anantara resorts in the past and loved them, but I noticed the points chart has changed; the numbers used to be round; it seems it's gone up.

Please help, I'm pretty lost.
What would you guys do?

Thanks,
Alex


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## CalGalTraveler (Jul 18, 2016)

A few quick thoughts:

1) the $58k you spent originally is a sunk cost (and you may get some back in the future) so you should look at this decision as: are you willing to pay another $49,000 plus an extra MF of $300 to get an additional 8750 points  per year?

2) Option 4:  Keep your West 57 so you get preferential home resort bookings and dedicated reservation line in NYC and augment with a low cost resale contract that has low MF in Vegas or elsewhere (points are points). What you will pay extra in MF on a resale will more than compensate for the additional $49k upfront. (Which will lose value the minute you buy this retail.)


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## AriMorgan (Jul 18, 2016)

Rescind.  Like CalGalTraveler said. Points are points. You can get 7,000 points resale for about 8k and vacation the same without spending 50k.  You will also be able to sell your deed you currently have if its paid off.


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## nirm (Jul 18, 2016)

Thanks for that.
Have you guys had any experience with Anantara?
I have seen 50,000 points selling for $17,000; I don't know about the maintenance fees though. Apparently these convert to 1,000,000 HH also


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## CalGalTraveler (Jul 18, 2016)

AngelaNoel said:


> Rescind.  Like CalGalTraveler said. Points are points. You can get 7,000 points resale for about 8k and vacation the same without spending 50k.  You will also be able to sell your deed you currently have if its paid off.



Points are points, however if you intend to stay in NYC often, it is worth keeping the W57 contract so you get 9 month home resort reservations, better units and lounge access vs. competing against the entire system at 45 days to get a booking.  (For example, we just booked New Years in NYC only 6 months in advance vs. 9 months and there was plenty of availability at the time - your chances of reserving New Years or Thanksgiving via club or RCI is small to none.)

If you plan to vacation in other places then go for low cost resale because those NYC points and perks are too pricey to use outside of NYC and select locations.


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## nirm (Jul 18, 2016)

Thanks; I will follow your advice and will send the fax right away.
Any experience of rescinding by FAX by the way? This is explicitly written in the contract, but can I make sure they will receive it?


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## MikeinSoCal (Jul 18, 2016)

No experience with fax, but I would back it up with a certified letter.  It's worth the extra cost and time.


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## Talent312 (Jul 18, 2016)

These contract clauses follow state laws, so if it says its doable by fax, then I'd do it.
However, fax machines can run out of paper and no one may notice for a while.
So, in an abundance of caution, I'd double-clutch it with a snail-mail certified letter.
.


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## nirm (Jul 18, 2016)

Talent312 said:


> These contract clauses follow state laws, so if it says its doable by fax, then I'd do it.
> However, fax machines can run out of paper and no one may notice for a while.
> So, in an abundance of caution, I'd double-clutch it with a snail-mail certified letter.
> .



Thanks for that! I hope DHL counts as certified mail because I am out of options from here...


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## PigsDad (Jul 18, 2016)

nirm said:


> Thanks for that! I hope DHL counts as certified mail because I am out of options from here...



It does not matter when they _receive _the rescission letter, only when you _sent _it.  If you keep some sort of proof that you sent it before the deadline, you will be fine.

Kurt


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## alwysonvac (Jul 18, 2016)

*Not a tough call*



nirm said:


> *As I mentioned previously, I convert to HH, but I am worried that what I can get today with 720,000 points might drop drastically over the years with the upcoming devaluations. I know there was a massive devaluation in 2013, but I do not have enough historical data to make an educated guess over what the devaluation would look like in the coming years.*
> I also used the Anantara resorts in the past and loved them, but I noticed the points chart has changed; the numbers used to be round; it seems it's gone up.
> 
> Please help, I'm pretty lost.
> ...



Don't do it. 

I hate when folks get sucked into buying HGVC for hotel stays. Eventually your out of pocket cost to converted HHonors points will exceed the overall cash value. 

All airline frequent flyer, credit card reward and hotel reward programs go through point devaluation and some are more frequent than others. 

A great hotel exchange deal today may not be a great deal tomorrow due to the following
(1) Maintenance Fees will increase over time decreasing the exchange value
(2) HHONOR reward point requirement will increase over time which will eventually impact the number of hotel reward nights. 
(3) Per the HGVC Member Guide, the HGVC to HHonors conversion rate is subject to change without notice and the benefits available through these programs are subject to change, suspension or discontinuation at any time without prior notice. 

For discussions on frequent flyer, credit card and hotel reward programs visit the Flyertalk boards - http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/miles-points-1/

See this old thread from 2009. In this thread I shared some HHonors history - http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=105184

Also you can use the search function using the term "devaluation" to locate all previous HGVC forum threads.


*JMHO...Only buy enough points to use for stays at the HGV resorts. Please also take into consideration that affiliate agreements can come and go so don't count on them (most recent example is the departure of Intrawest resorts)*

Good Luck with your decision


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## Adrienne (Jul 18, 2016)

*Recind*

We were there a few weeks ago and pondered the same question(s). We own 14,400 @ Kingsland and they offered  to buy that back at the best price we'll ever get to switch to a 'premium' studio @ NYC Hilton.  BUT no deal unless we added another 49K for 7K NYC studio. We HAD to have two deeds. And two maintenance fees. 

We were tempted by the HHonors conversion rate but by the time we factored in both maintenance fees, and the fact that the contract is grossly skewed to their favor, we decided not to do it. 

I would suggest that you don't do it, particularly since you already have the 50:1 conversion rate that so tempted me.


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## nirm (Jul 18, 2016)

Thank you all for your replies. I will send the fax tomorrow and double up with a DHL. I hope the date that counts for the mail is actually the date it was sent, not the date it is received, because that would be problematic from Venezuela...


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## nirm (Jul 19, 2016)

Success!! The fax worked like a charm. I used a free online service: Hellofax.
I received an email acknowledgment an hour later (as requested in my letter).
Good to know for you guys who might think of rescinding by fax.
Now it's time to look for some resale options 

Do you know what would be an ok value per point for HGVC?
I am looking at buying a rather large package to minimize the annual fees / point. I have seen some for sale at ~ $1.2 / point, what do you think?

Thanks!
Alex


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## SmithOp (Jul 19, 2016)

Anything around $1/point for the 7k packages and up should pass rofr.

What is your goal now, to find more points in NYC with the 50:1 conversion rate, or anywhere in the system?

There is an online listing for what you own at $17.5k.

http://www.sellingtimeshares.net/hilton-west-57th-st-studio-plus/


Sent from my iPad Mini 4 using Tapatalk


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## nirm (Jul 19, 2016)

SmithOp said:


> Anything around $1/point for the 7k packages and up should pass rofr.
> 
> What is your goal now, to find more points in NYC with the 50:1 conversion rate, or anywhere in the system?
> 
> ...



Thanks SmithOp,
I am looking for something with a lower MF/point ratio.
West 57th is not the best with ~ $1500 for 5250 points in my case.
I am looking for around 14000+ points.

Also looking at Anantara; I love their properties.
Anyone had any experience with them?
There is very little information online.

Thanks,
Alex


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## SmithOp (Jul 19, 2016)

nirm said:


> Thanks SmithOp,
> 
> I am looking for something with a lower MF/point ratio.
> 
> ...





Sell my Timeshare Now web site has some resale Anantara listings but no info on maint fees.  I dont think we have had any owners there visit TUG or report fees.

I searched for over a year before finding a great deal on a 14,400 contract at Kingsland, $1650 fees.  You might also look for the one bedroom premium 6200 point in Vegas, they are the lowest fees in the system right now. Happy hunting.


Sent from my iPad Mini 4 using Tapatalk


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## robmd (Jul 21, 2016)

*The Residences*

Hi there,

We finally made a purchase for THE RESIDENCES starting 2018

Studio Premier Plus Platinum

Club Points 10,500 @ 50:1 for HH
Purchase Price: $74,900
40,000 Bonus Points @ 25:1
Guaranteed Gold HH status 

This was direct from NYC W 57th

Was this a good deal?  Please advise ASAP as we are still within the cooling off period.

Many thanks
Rob


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## Cyberc (Jul 21, 2016)

robmd said:


> Hi there,
> 
> We finally made a purchase for THE RESIDENCES starting 2018
> 
> ...



Hi Rob

Welcome to Tug

Generally speaking it is always a bad decision to buy directly from the developer. As soon as you have signed the documents the value of your timeshare will fall drastically.
I'd say that the exception is when you buy a resort which is not available resale, and you intend to stay there.

In your case the new location in NYC is not available resale, but both the Hilton Club and West 57st is available as resale.

I would recommend that you rescind as soon as possible, unless of course that you want to stay at THE RESIDENCES and only there. Even so, it would still recommend to rescind, and maybe look for the Hilton Club or West 57th.


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## nirm (Jul 21, 2016)

robmd said:


> Hi there,
> 
> We finally made a purchase for THE RESIDENCES starting 2018
> 
> ...



Also, don't forget you can rescind by fax! worked for me.

Cheers!
Alex


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