# Massive Devaluation in Value of Starwood Points



## duke (Feb 5, 2007)

Effective Feb 1st Starwood hotels increased the amount of StarPoints it takes to pay for a hotel room.  On FlyerTalk some estimate the devaluation was in the area of 50%.  Check out the amount of points it now takes to reserve those hotels you have been thinking about.....

I wonder what those SVO salespeople are now going to use when they tell the timeshare tours that they can exchage their timeshare weeks to stay in the hotels..... ("Geee, you can give up your 2 bedroom lock off week for 3 1/2 days in our exotic hotel")


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## Pedro (Feb 5, 2007)

duke said:


> Effective Feb 1st Starwood hotels increased the amount of StarPoints it takes to pay for a hotel room. On FlyerTalk some estimate the devaluation was in the area of 50%. Check out the amount of points it now takes to reserve those hotels you have been thinking about.....
> 
> I wonder what those SVO salespeople are now going to use when they tell the timeshare tours that they can exchage their timeshare weeks to stay in the hotels..... ("Geee, you can give up your 2 bedroom lock off week for 3 1/2 days in our exotic hotel")


I did a fast check of the Cat. 3, 4, 5 Starwood Hotels, and didn't see a big change (hotels moved to a higher category).  Other that the category 6 and 7 hotels, where it takes up to 35,000 starpoints per night, seems that the impact is not a bad as it reads in Flyertalk - I couldn't see the 50% devaluation.  They always make it sound that the sky is falling


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## Transit (Feb 5, 2007)

I saw the list of hotels that were raised a cat and it didn't seem bad at all.Most of the properties that were affected were high end.All of the cat 3 and 4 that I normaly use or plan to use remained the same.There were even some hotels that went down a cat. the Sheraton on Grand Bahama went From a cat 4 to a Cat 3


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## saluki (Feb 5, 2007)

"KVS" on flyertalk put together this site with all of the hotel category changes:

http://KVS.UnrealNetwork.com/SW2007/


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## formerhater (Feb 5, 2007)

saluki said:


> "KVS" on flyertalk put together this site with all of the hotel category changes:
> 
> http://KVS.UnrealNetwork.com/SW2007/



Here is the summary from KVS.  Not that bad?  Look again.  Luckily, we had ample warning of this and I was able to book most of my Starpoints for stays over the next 18 months.

Summary:
Cat 1 -> Cat 2: 23
Cat 2 -> Cat 3: 72
Cat 3 -> Cat 4: 80
Cat 4 -> Cat 5: 70
Cat 5 -> Cat 6: 25
Cat 6 -> Cat 7: 10
2+ Cat Increase: 9
----------------------------
Total Increases: 289 (34%)



Total Decreases: 17 (2%)


Unmatched (includes new properties, and properties no longer a part of Starwood): 24


Total Number of Properties: 850/861


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## pointsjunkie (Feb 5, 2007)

*starpoints devalued*

they let us know it was coming ,so i booked many reservations in the future at different hotels. i had a gut feeling the ones I booked were going to go into a higher catagory and i was right.3 out of the 4 i booked went up. we will have to get used to the new catagories and that our starpoints aren't what they used to be. i hate that most of the hotels i frequent went up to different catagories. it is now really high to stay for a weekend in nyc. we used to do it alot. and now i will have to think about it.


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## Transit (Feb 5, 2007)

duke said:


> I wonder what those SVO salespeople are now going to use when they tell the timeshare tours that they can exchage their timeshare weeks to stay in the hotels..... ("Geee, you can give up your 2 bedroom lock off week for 3 1/2 days in our exotic hotel")



Converting to starpoints was never a good deal to begin with ,now it's a completely useless option.


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## DeniseM (Feb 5, 2007)

They have been talking about this on Flyer talk for months, and converting to Starpoints was never a good value anyway.  

The conversion rate for most airlines is still 25,000 mi. for 20,000 points, so for points you accumulate using the AMEX, that may be a better option than hotel stays.  We use our AMEX points for tix to Hawaii every summer and since we go during high season, those award seats save us $1,200 - $1,400 dollars and just cost us $50 a year for the card fee.

I'm transferring my Starpoints to Hawaiian Air every time I earn 20K, just in case they devalue the conversion to airline miles too.


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## stevens397 (Feb 5, 2007)

I agree that the deal gets worse and worse.  And tho I generate a lot of points with the AMEX, one other drawback is that Starwood deducts the points when the reservations are made, rather than when you are ready to use them, so that limited the number of trips I could pre-plan.

My attitude now is that it is still nice to be able to convert if you can't use the week and haven't been able to rent it.  At these levels, tho, I'd rather give the week to my kids or to friends.  

I too wonder if there will be any difference in the picture the salesmen paint!  Who am I kidding - I know the answer!


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## Courts (Feb 5, 2007)

duke said:


> Effective Feb 1st Starwood hotels increased the amount of StarPoints it takes to pay for a hotel room.  On FlyerTalk some estimate the devaluation was in the area of 50%.  Check out the amount of points it now takes to reserve those hotels you have been thinking about.....
> 
> *I wonder what those SVO salespeople are now going to use when they tell the timeshare tours that they can exchage their timeshare weeks to stay in the hotels.*.... ("Geee, you can give up your 2 bedroom lock off week for 3 1/2 days in our exotic hotel")


About 18 months ago, the sales people made "starpoints" sound so good we purchased a week. 

When I returned home and looked through the hotel listing and point conversions, I quickly reversed my decision. The "Manager" called and asked why. When I told her about the "inflated" sales pitch on the points, she had no come back.

I'm sure they will not change their sales pitch, but hope future "buyers" are wary.

.


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## NJDave (Feb 5, 2007)

We stayed at the Royal Hawaiian our last two trips to Waikiki for 10,000 points per night.  It is now 12,000 - 16,000 points. 

I just booked San Juan last week (since I heard the devaluation coming) for 7,000 points.  It is now 10,000 points.  

Recently Starwood changed the conversion ratio to Continental miles from 1:1with a 5,000 mile bonus (if 20,000 points were transferred) to a 1:2 conversion with no bonus.  We made a transfer in December because I heard about the devaluation.

I think Starwood was the best value for credit card users.  I still think it is a good value for hotels, just not as good as before. I will not use it for airline miles anymore.


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## Ken555 (Feb 6, 2007)

stevens397 said:


> I agree that the deal gets worse and worse.  And tho I generate a lot of points with the AMEX, one other drawback is that Starwood deducts the points when the reservations are made, rather than when you are ready to use them, so that limited the number of trips I could pre-plan.



I'm confused. For instance, are there any airline frequent flyer programs which allow you to book flights with future points where they do not deduct the points immediately from your account? I'm not sure I would agree that this is an unreasonable policy at Starwood, when compared to the rest of the travel industry and other programs. Is there another airline or hotel program which allows this? I'd be interested...


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## myip (Feb 6, 2007)

Ken555 said:


> I'm confused. For instance, are there any airline frequent flyer programs which allow you to book flights with future points where they do not deduct the points immediately from your account? I'm not sure I would agree that this is an unreasonable policy at Starwood, when compared to the rest of the travel industry and other programs. Is there another airline or hotel program which allows this? I'd be interested...



You can make reservation with Hilton without deduction HHonors points .


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## Henry M. (Feb 6, 2007)

A few years ago a Marriott salesman used point devaluation as an argument of why not to take into account that you could get a lot more from a Starwood point conversion than from from Marriott. At the time you could get a longer hotel stay in Maui from Starwood than from Marriott if you converted to points. He said Marriott was that way some time before but it was just a matter of time before Starwood devalued their points like Marriott had.

Points are not the only thing getting devalued. It seems the room rates at various properties I stay at are also going up significantly. Points are reflecting this upward trend in lodging costs.

Hotel points conversion adds some flexibility to the program but should not be the reason you buy a timeshare. It is a small side benefit. Converting to hotel points instead of using your timeshare has never been a good use of value anyhow, just an out if you didn't want to take the time to rent out or exchange your unit.

On another topic, i think deducting points when you make a reservation is a way of preventing abuses of the system. At least they give you all your points back if you cancel your reservation. With an airline (at least with AA) you'd have to pay to get your miles reinstated and a reservation without ticketing is good for only a short time.

I usually get more value out of my Starwood points using them at hotels than converting them to airline miles, even with the 25% bonus.


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## stevens397 (Feb 6, 2007)

To answer a previous post, Marriott will let me reserve a rewards vacation and ask in an assumptive way if I want the points deducted then and there.  I tell them no - I'll call for a certificate before we go.  

It is the only benefit of Marriott.  And this was not a majore complaint - it's the way they do it and I only mentioned it because it limited the number of advance reservations I could make.


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## pointsjunkie (Feb 6, 2007)

*deval*

I  Have Gone On Countless Vacations With Starpoints And I Still Think It Is A Great Perk. I Convert One Of My Units Every Year . Catagory 3  And 4 Are Nice Hotels And I Always Get Upgraded To Club Floor Or The Perks That Go With It. I Use Amex For Everything  And Travel 4-5 Vacations A Year Because  I Love Free Trips. I Also  Use My Airline Points To Travel For Free.


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## duke (Feb 6, 2007)

pointsjunkie said:


> . Catagory 3  And 4 Are Nice Hotels And



I think you now mean Catagory 4 and 5 .......  with the point devaluation.


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## Transit (Feb 6, 2007)

At about the time the devaluation info came out on flyertalk I received a call from Starwood asking if I was happy with my purchase and if everything went well ect..........I went into a 10 minute tirade on the devaluation of the points.I basicly told the Rep that I didn't think it was fair that the T/S unit starpoints value wasn't increased with the catagory step increase. Starwood TS owners pay for the starpoints that come with their units whereas frequent flyer and axex users earn those starpoints as bonases for using that service.The Rep passively agreed and did not ask me if I wanted to upgrade my unit which I belive he called for in the first place.The mentality on flyertalk seems to be earn em and burn em so you wont be affected by points devaluation.I think I agree.


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## tsl (Feb 6, 2007)

*So glad about resale......*



Transit said:


> Converting to starpoints was never a good deal to begin with ,now it's a completely useless option.



Having bought directly from Marriott and watched the devalue of the points, I am SO SO glad we saved half the developer price and bought resale.  I just had a feeling that we wouldn't use the points and they would go down.

I love my Starwood but I am glad I didn't get hooked on the Starpoint system.


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## Transit (Feb 6, 2007)

tsl said:


> I love my Starwood but I am glad I didn't get hooked on the Starpoint system.



I did get hooked.I used the points to do a few extended weekends and have been upgraded with the gold level and treated well by SPG hotels.I think its a great system and still is but losing some value does hurt. After reveiwing the list of properties that went up a cat I recind my first post to this thread .There are some properties I may use but are now are more starpoints to book.I understand prices go up but any devaluation of points in any system sucks to the customer.


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## stevens397 (Feb 6, 2007)

You're right, Transit.  When I first started becoming a points Junie, I thought I would have TWO retirement plans - my profit sharing plan plus my points accounts.

Thank God my PS plan has appreciated better than my Points account!  Those on this board and Flyer Talk have converted me to "earn em and burn em."  That said, it will be a bit depressing to have to pay for vacations in the future!


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## pointsjunkie (Feb 7, 2007)

*reval*

i did mean catagory 3&4. i use the 5th day free promotion and then i am not using too many starpoints. if i paid for all the trips that i used starpoints for,i figured out it has paid for 2 of my timeshares. i am a starpoint junkie and do every promotion to acquire more. so sad!!

i am also a airline miles junkie, i do all my shopping from one of their sites. i do not travel for work so i work the system to my benefit. i WILL NOT spend $25,000 to get a free ticket.

i am teaching a course on the subject in a few weeks at ny local community center. 

owning timeshare has opened a new hobby for me.:whoopie:


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## duke (Feb 7, 2007)

pointsjunkie said:


> i did mean catagory 3&4.
> 
> owning timeshare has opened a new hobby for me.:whoopie:



I ment that your catagory 3 and 4 have been devalued to catagory 4 and 5.  They moved the hotels that were in cat 3 and 4 to cat 4 and 5.

As an aside, you may want to check out the Starwood Elite Program.  If you get to 5* Elite you get to be an SPG Platinum for life!  Sounds like that would be good for you.


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## iluvwdw (Feb 7, 2007)

pointsjunkie said:


> i did mean catagory 3&4. i use the 5th day free promotion and then i am not using too many starpoints. if i paid for all the trips that i used starpoints for,i figured out it has paid for 2 of my timeshares. i am a starpoint junkie and do every promotion to acquire more. so sad!!
> 
> i am also a airline miles junkie, i do all my shopping from one of their sites. i do not travel for work so i work the system to my benefit. i WILL NOT spend $25,000 to get a free ticket.
> 
> ...



Where is this class you're teaching?  I'd be interested....


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## Transit (Feb 7, 2007)

pointsjunkie said:


> i did mean catagory 3&4. i use the 5th day free promotion and then i am not using too many starpoints. if i paid for all the trips that i used starpoints for,i figured out it has paid for 2 of my timeshares. i am a starpoint junkie and do every promotion to acquire more. so sad!!
> 
> i am also a airline miles junkie, i do all my shopping from one of their sites. i do not travel for work so i work the system to my benefit. i WILL NOT spend $25,000 to get a free ticket.
> 
> ...



I'm going to the best school of timeshare right here on TUG


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## djp (Feb 7, 2007)

I agree that the best use of one's timehare is not to turn it into hotel points. But I do apprecate having the ability if I can not use my week. I think it can be a good option especially if you have a week with relatively low mf's (under $1000) and your week can get you alot of points. For instance my week at SMV has mf's of about $900 and can get me 85800 starpoints. So I can spend @$500 dollars and buy 14000 points and have 100,000 points. This will get me 5 nights at a cat 6. Lets say I was dying to do Christmas at the St regis aspen, this would get me there as opposed to paying $1600 per night ($8000 for the 5 nights). It is not the best way to normally use an expensive timeshare, and it is not as good a deal as it used to be, but for me t is still a nice bonus benefit, for the rare time that I cant use my week and want services which cant be had at %99.99 of all timeshares.....valet parking,daily maid service, room service urban locations, multiple on site restaurants and spa facilities.


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## pointsjunkie (Feb 8, 2007)

duke said:


> I ment that your catagory 3 and 4 have been devalued to catagory 4 and 5.  They moved the hotels that were in cat 3 and 4 to cat 4 and 5.
> 
> As an aside, you may want to check out the Starwood Elite Program.  If you get to 5* Elite you get to be an SPG Platinum for life!  Sounds like that would be good for you.



that is the reason i keep asking about requals. we are considering becoming 5* so we can become platinum,but we also are thinking about using all the vacation ownership as our retirement home. we will go warm for 6-8 weeks and it will give us the flexability to go to a different locale every year. 
would love input from others who are thinking about doing this.


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## pointsjunkie (Feb 8, 2007)

*points*

do you have the starwood AMEX card?f you don't get it,it is free the first year and the first time you use it they will deposit 10,000 starpoints in your account.you will be that much closer to 100,000 starpoints.


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## Henry M. (Feb 8, 2007)

pointsjunkie said:


> that is the reason i keep asking about requals. we are considering becoming 5* so we can become platinum,but we also are thinking about using all the vacation ownership as our retirement home. we will go warm for 6-8 weeks and it will give us the flexability to go to a different locale every year.
> would love input from others who are thinking about doing this.



Your reasoning is why I became 5* Elite. I view this as costing me less than a nice second home (and way less than a shack in Hawaii, nevermind anything on the beach) but with much more flexibility. I only get to use it 8 weeks max, but I probably wouldn't use a second home more than that anyway. Before I can be away for so long, I'm taking great vacations with my teenage kids now and will be able to take their families along when that time comes. I also wouldn't mind taking some friends along from time to time.


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## stevens397 (Feb 8, 2007)

I've mentioned this before but your reasoning is the same as a patient of mine.  He ended up buying eight weeks at Mission Hills and two weeks in Kierland.  At the time he spent a total of $250,000 which he figured was less than a second home.  He has 10 weeks in a 2 bedroom or 20 weeks in a one bedroom - or some combination of the two.  And he has more points than he can imagine.  He uses them to go to Grand Cayman where, as a Platinum and repeat customer, he is welcomed by the manager and given the best room imaginable.

Funny thing is he did this before there was an Elite program - I'm actually the one who explains all of his benefits to him.

He gets treated like gold (or Platinum!) and gets to travel to the best places.  A change in his business means that he can't travel as much for the next year or two, so he'll take the points or rent them.

The only down side to him is that there will be no appreciation, but he's more than happy with the trade off.  Not a bad deal for him.


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## duke (Feb 8, 2007)

The one thing they can't devalue is being at the top of the elite pyramid.  
5* elite and SPG Platinum for life will always get you the top benefits that are offered; whatever they may be.


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