# RHC Due diligence - How?



## JillChang (Jan 28, 2006)

Finally bought my first resale RHC from myresortnetwork, the contract says I have to do my own dur diligence, how do I do that?


----------



## MaryH (Jan 29, 2006)

Jill,

What did you buy exactly and what did you pay for it?

With RHC, you really should do your due diligence BEFORE you purchase.  
You should get from the seller:
Contract # / Membership number
Type of contract - # of points or week usable.
Expiry year since RHC is RTU
MF amount for 2006 
when is MF paid up to...
Special assessment if any and not there is a SA due Jan 15, 2006.
Banked points available if any

Then call RHC, new member services and say you are in the process of buying a RHC resale and give them the contract # and verify the information.  
You need to check if the membership info matches and if all fees are current.

Hope this helps,
Mary


----------



## JillChang (Jan 29, 2006)

MaryH said:
			
		

> Jill,
> 
> What did you buy exactly and what did you pay for it?
> 
> ...



Thanks, it helps.  The only information I don't have is the contract #/membership #.  I also don't know of any SA.  I will ask the seller.


----------



## MaryH (Jan 29, 2006)

Jill, I own RHC points contract(s) and in Oct of last year, RHC announced that they will charge a special assessment to cover Wilma demages of all members, not just the MX owners.  I think it was $170 for 15K, $240 for 30K, etc. for the special assessment.  

Sorry, forgot to say you also need to get previous owners name in addition to the contract # and membership #.  I have occassionally be able to find info without knowing the name but some reps insisted on knowing it or difficult to find info sometimes.


----------



## Blondie (Jan 29, 2006)

RHC can be VERY tricky to deal with, right Mary? They are known for tacking on back fees ranging in the hundreds of dollars and will not transfer title until they are paid for. They are also known for their shoddy bookkeeping and you will get 5 different answers from 5 different reps and nothing in writing. What did you buy and how much did you pay, first off?  Call the seller and get ALL his info and then log into RHC and triple check all account balances and paid amounts. This is searchable if seller gives you his ID and passwword- if he does not have one have him log in and creat an account and you will be able to check in two or three days. Print everything you see for your records and whatever you pay RHC (it is $350 to transfer the title) pay it with a credit card and then print out/save your statement.  I closed my own RHC purchase but it was a nightmare. I would pay a closing agent were I to do it again.  (I only paid $500 for 15K points,15K bonus points, 4 years of RCI plus a banked week I traded for Atlantic City in July) I already had 15K points I bought from Holiday Group so this gives me 30K a year. It is worth it now as I have two 4-day ressies in NYC this summer but what a HUGE pain. Mary- how are your contracts going? Mine are unified...


----------



## JillChang (Jan 29, 2006)

Blondie said:
			
		

> RHC can be VERY tricky to deal with, right Mary? They are known for tacking on back fees ranging in the hundreds of dollars and will not transfer title until they are paid for. They are also known for their shoddy bookkeeping and you will get 5 different answers from 5 different reps and nothing in writing. What did you buy and how much did you pay, first off?  Call the seller and get ALL his info and then log into RHC and triple check all account balances and paid amounts. This is searchable if seller gives you his ID and passwword- if he does not have one have him log in and creat an account and you will be able to check in two or three days. Print everything you see for your records and whatever you pay RHC (it is $350 to transfer the title) pay it with a credit card and then print out/save your statement.  I closed my own RHC purchase but it was a nightmare. I would pay a closing agent were I to do it again.  (I only paid $500 for 15K points,15K bonus points, 4 years of RCI plus a banked week I traded for Atlantic City in July) I already had 15K points I bought from Holiday Group so this gives me 30K a year. It is worth it now as I have two 4-day ressies in NYC this summer but what a HUGE pain. Mary- how are your contracts going? Mine are unified...



15k points for $500, no bonus points or banked weeks   , plus closing fee, resort transfer fee, and MF.  seller did not mention any SA, I will find out.  I am not sure if he will give me the online account access, perhaps he can give me a print out of his account.


----------



## Blondie (Jan 29, 2006)

Jill- without that info you will be powerless to argue any additional RHC charges. Insist on it. Online access will tell you everything you need to know-there is even a link to download any loan info and that is critical to check. If he is really security conscious he can change his password after he gives you a look at the account. MF is around $425 and transfer is around $350 special assessment is $170.  
good Luck Blondie


----------



## Blondie (Jan 29, 2006)

oops- I see you are using a closing service. that is good!


----------



## jerseygirl (Jan 29, 2006)

I had online access when I purchased -- all records showed $0.00 due, maintenance fees up-to-date, etc.  RHC confirmed this information verbally on more than one occasion.

A year later, RHC found that the 2003 maintenance fee had not been paid.  Apparently, they credited the 2004 fee to 2004, and the 2005 fee to 2005, without ever noticing that the 2003 fee had never been paid.   Hmmmm....

They were holding my Easter week reservation at Two Hyde Park (London) hostage ... said they would cancel it unless I came up with the 2003 payment.  I bought from Holiday Group -- they paid it, not me, so it all worked out in the end.  But, it definitely proved that you can't rely on the website or verbal conversations.  I would attempt to obtain a written statement from RHC.  

I wonder what they would do if you added an addendum/schedule to the transfer contract.


----------



## Blondie (Jan 29, 2006)

Many Tuggers here have had the same problem and as a whole we are fairly savvy- so imagine what they do to other owners. You can argue until you are blue but, end result, they will not reserve your week if you do not pay up. I got stuck for some mystery amount of $165- it started out as $420 or something but seller and I argued it down. My Holiday Group buy went cleanly. I question the legality of transfering a title and then, a year later, deciding it is not clear at all.


----------



## JillChang (Jan 30, 2006)

Well, thanks everyone, this seller has no online account.  I called RHC, and everything sounds ok.  So, hopefully everything is fine.

Thanks for all your input.  I bought another two resales, a 20K and a 7.5K, I will then ask you guys on how to combine them


----------



## Hoc (Jan 30, 2006)

JillChang said:
			
		

> Thanks for all your input.  I bought another two resales, a 20K and a 7.5K, I will then ask you guys on how to combine them



Call and ask to transfer them, make sure they send you a form to combine them.  That should take them a couple of months.  After you send them the filled out form, plan on waiting anywhere from six months to a year and a half before they are actually combined, during which time you will be paying separate annual fees on each.


----------



## Blondie (Jan 31, 2006)

Jill, send me an email and I will give you some info regarding the unifying of the contracts. I just did it and it took 3 months. It would have been done much sooner but the seller's loan info was what held up the process as RHC did not have the msot corrent info.


----------



## royalholidayclubbed (Feb 4, 2006)

*RHC Combine Harvester*

Hi Jill:

Now I may be mistaken, but I do not believe so.

RCH does NOT allow separate contract combinations.

That means:
1. That your annual admin fees (pointswise) will be higher.
2. That you may have to pay the Wilma fee for each contract.
3. That you may have to pay each extraordinary fee for each contract
(recently the extraordinary fees are not so uncommon".
4. Please correct me if I turn out to be wrong.

John
Visit my website


----------



## JoeMid (Feb 4, 2006)

royalholidayclubbed said:
			
		

> Hi Jill:
> Now I may be mistaken, but I do not believe so.
> RCH does NOT allow separate contract combinations.
> John


RCH may not allow it but RHC does, as you have implied, their admin and customer service is poor but it can be done. Unifying contracts reduces the per point maintenance fee and other extrordinary fees. Do you think Blondie is just dreaming?


			
				Blondie said:
			
		

> Jill, send me an email and I will give you some info regarding the unifying of the contracts. I just did it and it took 3 months. It would have been done much sooner but the seller's loan info was what held up the process as RHC did not have the msot corrent info.


----------



## Hoc (Feb 5, 2006)

royalholidayclubbed said:
			
		

> 4. Please correct me if I turn out to be wrong.



You are wrong.  Many of us here have bought separate contracts and combined them.  Their administration is screwed up, but RHC is an amazing deal for those of us lucky enough to have found them on the resale market.  For those of you who bought direct from the developer, just like with almost every other timeshare out there, you paid way too much for an interest that is worth a heck of a lot less.

In the case of RHC, when you buy, you have to presume that it will be worthless as a resale, and purchase with that understanding.


----------



## danmac156 (Feb 5, 2006)

*Royal Holiday Club Billing / Administrative Problems*

I bought two memberships in 2005. The first one I closed on in june and paid my 2006 maintenance fees so I could book reservations for April. This was a 40K contract so I paid $790 MF. I finally got the two contracts 
unified in September. At that time I paid $200 for 2006 maintenace fees for a total of $990. This is the correct fee for my combined 70,000 points. It makes sense.

In early December I discovered the special assesment online plus new charges for 2006 maintenance fees. I paid the special assessment but my account still shows that the only credit I have received is the $200 I paid in September. I have sent multiple emails with no rsponse. When I call by phone the RHC reps acknowledge my account should not show a balance and say they have reqested a correction which has to be processed in "another area of the company" They admit they are having problems. I was originally told it would take a week to correct. That was 7 weeks ago.
The maintenance fees have gone up to $1040 but I was told the $990 would be honored since I paid before the increase.

I now have late charges showing up on my account to make matters worse. The reps tell me not to worry but I have 5 reservations I am afraid will get cancelled. 

Any suggestions??


----------



## jerseygirl (Feb 5, 2006)

danmac156 said:
			
		

> Any suggestions?



Pray?

Try asking for Ricardo ... I'm not sure if that his first name or his last name (first, I think) ... I just remember I kept thinking of Ricky Ricardo when I spoke to him!  He handled my bookkeeping fiasco -- I'm pretty sure he's in that "other area of the company" they're speaking about.


----------



## Hoc (Feb 6, 2006)

danmac156 said:
			
		

> Any suggestions??



Pay the extra money and assume that you will not get it back.


----------



## MaryH (Feb 7, 2006)

Blondie said:
			
		

> Mary- how are your contracts going? Mine are unified...



Hi Blondie,

Sorry busy at work so have not been on that much in the last week and somehow missed the thread until the summarized mail came through.

The transfers to my names finally finished for the last of 5 contract end of Dec or beginning of Jan and I can see each individual contracts online.  The other 4 I bought from Holiday Group went smoothly.  This last one was purchased from a broker as part of a package deal for a decent price but I had to pay 2005 fees and late fees.  I did that in Sept and they had all the paperwork then, told me that the transfer was in progress and I was following up every 2-3 weeks after mid-Oct.  They told me at the end of November that they LOST my transfer papers and can I fax it again.   I told them that RHC told me they had it and every thing was okay and if there was an issue why did they leave 2.5 months before informing me?  David finally finally help to locate it for me and the tranfer went through about a month after that.  

The reunification process has started in early Jan but no progress yet and I cannot make any reservations since I need to pay M/F and SA but not willing to pay on the individual contracts when I have 1x30K and 4x15K contracts.  The late fees has started to accumulate and I am not a happy camper since several messages / email were not returned.  Not working from home a couple of days a week these days, I cannot leave it on dial and hold and just continue working...


----------



## MaryH (Feb 7, 2006)

Blondie said:
			
		

> Many Tuggers here have had the same problem and as a whole we are fairly savvy- so imagine what they do to other owners. You can argue until you are blue but, end result, they will not reserve your week if you do not pay up. I got stuck for some mystery amount of $165- it started out as $420 or something but seller and I argued it down. My Holiday Group buy went cleanly. I question the legality of transfering a title and then, a year later, deciding it is not clear at all.



Hi Blondie,

They don't actually transfer title, just membership and that is why RHC make you sign a notarized letter about the fees so they are always in the right


----------



## MaryH (Feb 7, 2006)

royalholidayclubbed said:
			
		

> 4. Please correct me if I turn out to be wrong.
> 
> John
> www.royalholidayclubbed.com
> ...



John, 

You have not been been able to do so but that does not mean it cannot be done.  I had to talk to about 3-4 reps before I can find one that tells me it can be done and one tried to tell me it can be done but there was a charge and I tried again and found someone who told me it can be done without charge.

You have my sympathies if you bought it from RHC.  I guess you just have to use it for the good weeks like London, New York or San Francisco which are good values.


----------



## Blondie (Feb 7, 2006)

Hi Mary- Good point. Well, I stopped in for a quick looksee at the Dumont in NYC this weekend. It is lovely. Today I called RHC and was able to upgrade to the Pres unit (I had a studio reserved for August as that was all they had at that time) and I am happy. My husband was very impressed with my RHC purchase. I hope your contracts are all unified by now Mary. David worked hard for me and finally all is squared away. Lynda


----------



## MaryH (Feb 8, 2006)

*RHC will now only reunify 3 contracts or try to sell you another 5k contractfrom them*

Hi Lynda,

I am a little unhappy right now.  I finally got David on the phone after leaving messages off and on about 4 times in 2 weeks to check on the reunification.

He called back saying that the rules for reunification was changed by management and told they cannot reunify 5 contracts but will ONLY reunify 3 contracts only.  They will only reunify the contract for all five contracts if I purchase from them 5K points.  I might have considered it seriously at one point but not after the problems I have had in Nov/Dec and RHC trying to change the rules on me.  Apparently they have been putting on hold the larger reunifications since mid-Nov and he did not inform me of the changes in status and that I was on hold.  I called and asked about reunification before I agreed to purchase the additinoal 2x15K rather than only the 1x15K from Holiday group back in Oct.  They are not honouring the old rules which they stated.   

I am not a happy camper since part of the delay was due to the fact that they "lost" one of my transfers for about 3-4 months despite repeat assurances things are in progress.  I am trying to reunify it in 2 bunches with a view to my sister and I splitting our RHC memberships.

Mary


----------



## Blondie (Feb 8, 2006)

Hi Mary- Sorry to hear that. I did have some trouble as you know- but I finally got it fixed. I think if you unify what you have and your sister unifies the others you will still be fine, albeit paying a little more in Maint fees. You bought smart so you will still have good value in the end. I got my two reservations for NYC and since that was my goal all along I am happy. Good luck to you. Lynda


----------



## JoeMid (Feb 8, 2006)

Blondie said:
			
		

> Today I called RHC and was able to upgrade to the Pres unit (I had a studio reserved for August as that was all they had at that time) and I am happy. Lynda


Did they charge you cash to cancel the original Studio reservation?  I wonder why they had additional availability in the larger size unit, cancellation, maybe?


----------



## JoeMid (Feb 8, 2006)

MaryH said:
			
		

> *RHC will now only reunify 3 contracts or try to sell you another 5k contractfrom them*


 reunify implies that they were once unified and I don't think that is the case.  At the time I got 7 contracts unified, others were being told that they had to buy more points to make it happen.  Guess I was lucky, guess I won't be buying any more contracts.  With all the unhappy RHC owners out there, it would seem they'd like to have a bunch of happy ones.


----------



## MaryH (Feb 8, 2006)

JoeMid said:
			
		

> reunify implies that they were once unified and I don't think that is the case.  At the time I got 7 contracts unified, others were being told that they had to buy more points to make it happen.  Guess I was lucky, guess I won't be buying any more contracts.  With all the unhappy RHC owners out there, it would seem they'd like to have a bunch of happy ones.



JoeMid,

How many points total and how long ago did you unified it?

Sorry, I meant to say unifying the contracts.  I was told originally I can do it and the rep told me in Oct and again in Nov/Dec that 5 contracts is not a problems. Apparently they starting holding up the larger unification around mid Nov for a board vote and the vote went through to put the limit on unifying 3 contracts.  

If you wanted to buy more contracts, just get your spouse or a family member to buy it and buy larger chunks.  Not quite as cheap as addiing to you holding at about 1 - 1.2 cent per M/F but at 60K you can be at about 1.5-1.6.  

But at this point, I would not add to my holding since RHC is changing their rules all the time and I am getting too many surprises.


----------



## MaryH (Feb 8, 2006)

Blondie said:
			
		

> Hi Mary- Sorry to hear that. I did have some trouble as you know- but I finally got it fixed. I think if you unify what you have and your sister unifies the others you will still be fine, albeit paying a little more in Maint fees. You bought smart so you will still have good value in the end. I got my two reservations for NYC and since that was my goal all along I am happy. Good luck to you. Lynda



Hi Lynda, 

I remembered your problems last year.  I am glad things got straightened out in the end.

Well, all 5 contract are purchased under joint names but I am hoping they will reunify it in two lots 60k and 30K.  I cannot make any reservation right now since I need to wait for the unification to finish before paying M/F and SA which means I cannot make reservations and thus wait in limbo and RHC does not get their money


----------



## Spence (Feb 8, 2006)

It's disappointing to hear that everything is a moving target with RHC.


----------



## JoeMid (Feb 8, 2006)

MaryH said:
			
		

> JoeMid,  How many points total and how long ago did you unified it?  But at this point, I would not add to my holding since RHC is changing their rules all the time and I am getting too many surprises.


7 contracts at an average contract size of 15K.  I'm enjoying them but would not buy any more or do it again.  I 'worked' all year last year to get them unified and they came together aound Sep/Oct timeframe (can't remember exactly, I'll check my paperwork if i can find it) but before billing etc for MFs and SAs.


----------



## JoeMid (Feb 8, 2006)

MaryH said:
			
		

> Hi Lynda, Well, all 5 contract are purchased under joint names but I am hoping they will reunify it in two lots 60k and 30K. I cannot make any reservation right now since I need to wait for the unification to finish before paying M/F and SA which means I cannot make reservations and thus wait in limbo and RHC does not get their money


 They may require separate MF/SA payments before the unification. After you get them into two groups of 60/30 what's to stop you from unifying the two 'new' contracts to 90???


----------



## MaryH (Feb 8, 2006)

Well I been assured before Xmas that I would be taken care and only have to pay the reunified MF and SA since the delay was due to admin problems on their part but I am not holding my breath.


----------



## Blondie (Feb 8, 2006)

JoeMId- They did charge me the $40 fee for rebooking. I don't know where the inventory came from but I almost get the sense they release it slowly. I have seen postings here with info about availability well after I was told there was none. Now I am trying to get an answer about renting. One of the units I have is for 4 days and I am planning to rent it for three. I hope I can!


----------



## MaryH (Feb 9, 2006)

Lynda,

Since you have a presidential unit which is sleep 4, one option is to add the other person(s) on the reservation but it might need to be someone you trust since you would still be listed as the occupier.


----------



## prasadv1 (Feb 27, 2006)

Hi,
I need help in transferring RHC membership to my name.
The original owner has sent all the documents to RHC in december 2005 to transfer the membership.
I am able to make resevations and use the points. But still all the transactions are listed in original owner's name.
I called RHC and asked the reason why the ownership is not transfeered to my name.
They say i have to send a letter to them stating that i am the new owner and I will be responsible for paying their fees etc. I alrady paid 2006 mtce fees and reserved vacation using my credit card. But they want a letter to the effect that i am the new owner and responsible for the fees.
I asked them to send a form for that.
The say they have no standard form , but i have to send them a letter.
I want to know any of the tuggers having a standard form for accepting the ownership or atleast a model letter to that effect. 
Any help is appreciated.  Prasad.


----------



## JoeMid (Feb 27, 2006)

prasadv1 said:
			
		

> But they want a letter to the effect that i am the new owner and responsible for the fees.
> I asked them to send a form for that.
> The say they have no standard form , but i have to send them a letter..


Welcome to the nightmare of RHC Admin. YES, they want your signature saying that you accept responsibility for the fees on the account. They want it notarized, too.


_To Whom it May Concern,_
_I, xxxxxxx, assume responsibility for Royal Holiday Club Acct#yyyyy, that was transferred to me by zzzzzzz, on (date)._

sign it
have it notarized
fax and mail it to RHC.
if you have copies of the transfer paperwork from the seller, include that
that should do it.


----------



## JoeMid (Feb 27, 2006)

Blondie said:
			
		

> JoeMId- They did charge me the $40 fee for rebooking. I don't know where the inventory came from but I almost get the sense they release it slowly. I have seen postings here with info about availability well after I was told there was none. Now I am trying to get an answer about renting. One of the units I have is for 4 days and I am planning to rent it for three. I hope I can!


$40 was a cancellation fee for the first reservation, that's the minimum they charge if it's far enough in advance.


----------



## prasadv1 (Feb 27, 2006)

Hi Joe,
Thank you very much.
Prasad.


----------



## JudyS (Feb 27, 2006)

jerseygirl said:
			
		

> I had online access when I purchased -- all records showed $0.00 due, maintenance fees up-to-date, etc.  RHC confirmed this information verbally on more than one occasion.
> 
> A year later, RHC found that the 2003 maintenance fee had not been paid.  Apparently, they credited the 2004 fee to 2004, and the 2005 fee to 2005, without ever noticing that the 2003 fee had never been paid.   Hmmmm.....



That's awful!  Isn't there some way to get an estoppel letter from RHC when you buy?  

Also, if one uses a closing company, can they offer any sort of protection against these problems?


----------



## danmac156 (Feb 27, 2006)

JoeMid said:
			
		

> Welcome to the nightmare of RHC Admin. YES, they want your signature saying that you accept responsibility for the fees on the account. They want it notarized, too.
> 
> 
> _To Whom it May Concern,_
> ...



Watch out for sending a fax. I sent a fax required for unification multiple times. Each time they claimed they did not get it. I scanned it and sent it via email and that did the trick.


----------



## Hoc (Feb 28, 2006)

JudyS said:
			
		

> That's awful!  Isn't there some way to get an estoppel letter from RHC when you buy?



Sure, you can get an estoppel letter from RHC when you buy, but:

1.  You'll never get it, even though they will tell you multiple times that they sent it; and

2.  Even if you have it, that will not stop them from charging you when they "suddenly" discover unpaid fees from a few years back.  "The estoppel letter only applied to that year's fees."  Or something like that.

Just recognize that their administration is quite screwed up, and accept it (including the possibility of paying a couple of extra annual fees) as one of the costs of ownership.


----------



## MaryH (Feb 28, 2006)

danmac156 said:
			
		

> Watch out for sending a fax. I sent a fax required for unification multiple times. Each time they claimed they did not get it. I scanned it and sent it via email and that did the trick.



The fax is very screwed up.  Many times I have sent faxes and told it has not been received and have to resend it.  Have not tried e-mailing faxed copies yet maybe next time..


----------



## danmac156 (Feb 28, 2006)

*RHC Unification Rules??*



			
				MaryH said:
			
		

> JoeMid,
> 
> How many points total and how long ago did you unified it?
> 
> ...



I agree with your last statement. I might add more points but they have to be CHEAP!
I unified two contracts last year. Does this mean I can add one more contract? Or, does it mean they will only unify 3 contracts at a time. The new rules further devalue the resale on the smaller contracts under 15K points in my opinion. I share 70K points with another couple and would like to add more but it seems only 20K and above makes sense.  Everyone needs to beware of the "new" rule they hit me with. Buy a 20 year and a 25 year contract and now you only have 20 years left upon unification. Has anyone received a hard copy of their new contract after unification?


----------



## JoeMid (Feb 28, 2006)

*the "new" rule*



			
				danmac156 said:
			
		

> Everyone needs to beware of the "new" rule they hit me with. Buy a 20 year and a 25 year contract and now you only have 20 years left upon unification. Has anyone received a hard copy of their new contract after unification?


 
Well, I received a request for feedback from a recent RHC stay this month. I rated the resort excellent but 

1) I complained that they could get me a request for feedback but I NEVER received a confirmation to present at the resort(hotel) even after asking for it numerous times via phone and email. (I was able to see the reservation online (no printable confirmation as it was booked over the phone) and was able to email the hotel directly just before takeoff to confirm that I had a place to stay.)

2) I complained that they could get me a request for feedback but I've NEVER received a copy of my 'new' contract after unification and an explanation of the forshortened end date I was told over the phone. I got the email below today. Don't know whether to be Happy or Sad/Mad.   because I like their resorts/hotels and I have relatively low MFs/pt being a Royal member -or-   because I have to put up with their admin for another 30 years.

*Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2006 12:40:43 -0500 *
*From: "1. Service" <**service@royal-holiday.com**>*
*To: ""JoeMid" *
*Subject: [44971] Royal Holiday Services *

*Dear Mr. Mid,*
*From October 2005,the date of the unification, you will have another *
*30 years of membership.*
*if you need further assistance, please let us know.*
*Best Regards !*
*Luis PLiego*
*E Center*


----------



## JoeMid (Feb 28, 2006)

Since I turn the magic 50 this year, I think I'll be bringing the end years forward at a rate of one per year, doubling up on the points every year.


----------



## danmac156 (Feb 28, 2006)

JoeMid said:
			
		

> Well, I received a request for feedback from a recent RHC stay this month. I rated the resort excellent but
> 
> 1) I complained that they could get me a request for feedback but I NEVER received a confirmation to present at the resort(hotel) even after asking for it numerous times via phone and email. (I was able to see the reservation online (no printable confirmation as it was booked over the phone) and was able to email the hotel directly just before takeoff to confirm that I had a place to stay.)
> 
> ...



I also just turned 50 and would like to have the 30 years. I am going to send an email and see what they tell me. I have had three RHC reps tell me I have 30 years from unification, but the one who unified my contract says it went down to 20. What is reality?? Nothing is in writing.

They drive me nuts but the program is great for the resorts they have and the price most of us paid.  I have sent 4 emails regarding my screwed up account [ $1,383 in fees showing onlinewhen I am paid up] with no response. April 1st I am in Ixtapa [Royal Villas] and believe me will be downing a few cervezas after all this. I will be sure to take pictures of the resort so I can help any other RHC owners interested in staying. 

I made reservations for Ixtapa last June and have not received a confirmation for this April. I made another reservation for Lost Tule in PV in January and received an email confirmation a few weeks later. You just can't make sense of their administration.

I am really pleased to have found TUG and all you helpful RHC fellow owners. We are a "special" group who need to stick together to keep our sanity.


----------



## RonaldCol (Feb 28, 2006)

*Holiday Group Make Good on Brokering*

I bought an RHC 30,000 annual use year for $0.05 per point (edited to correct incorrect information), or a total of $1500, from Holiday Group. I've learned a while back when one is dealing with transfers in regards to timeshares and timeshare-like products to be extremely patient, i.e. if you're in a hurry to use it upon purchase ... forget it.

After several months of waiting for the transfer to occur, Holiday Group finally formalized it by sending me hardcopy documents attesting  to the fact that I am now the owner of the 30 year, 30,000 annual points RHC RTU.

Still I waited several months to make my first reservation. Meanwhile I started to receive, and download, past newsletters from RHC; all this exercise just to get  flavor of how RHC operates.

Then I made my first reservation. Yes, despite all the precautions, etc., etc., RHC discovered that the previous owner hadn't paid some all-inclusive resort fee of about $300 plus change. What this meant to me was I couldn't make any reservations.

I contacted Holiday Group and told them they assured me that everything was a go. Needless to say I nailed them to the wall on this one. Within two days of contact, Holiday Group paid the $300 fee and pushed RHC to permit me to make reservations.

Every so often when I call to make reservations I ask the RHC counselor to check my payment records, and to this very day, they initially tell me I'm still not paid. Upon further investigations these very same counselors apologize and tell me that everything is cleared for reservations. This infers to me that they most likely have different accounting groups within the organization and the counselors must go higher up in their datafiles to see if the payments are current.


----------



## JoeMid (Feb 28, 2006)

RonaldCol said:
			
		

> I contacted Holiday Group and told them they assured me that everything was a go. Needless to say I nailed them to the wall on this one. Within two days of contact, Holiday Group paid the $300 fee and pushed RHC to permit me to make reservations.


Nice to hear that HolidayGroup made good, we pay them enough in closing costs, especially for an RHC contract change. 





			
				ColRonald said:
			
		

> Every so often when I call to make reservations I ask the RHC counselor to check my payment records, and to this very day, they initially tell me I'm still not paid. Upon further investigations these very same counselors apologize and tell me that everything is cleared for reservations. This infers to me that they most likely have different accounting groups within the organization and the counselors must go higher up in their datafiles to see if the payments are current.


It infers to me that they are SNAFU.


----------



## MaryH (Mar 2, 2006)

*Down to 1 London property*

Just noticed that RHC is down to 1 London property.  One of the things I liked is that they had 2 London property and I had noticed a price increase of credit required for 2 Hyde Park Sq. to a not very cost effective level for me but at least it is an option when I start running out of hotel nights. 

On checking something for someone today, I noticed that London is only turning up Allen House with no availability and when I check the directory, 2 Hyde Park Sq. is no longer there     

With the SA, the problems with transfer and reunification, I am not a happy camper...


----------



## MaryH (Mar 2, 2006)

Has anyone else noticed the disappearance of other properties?


----------



## JoeMid (Mar 2, 2006)

MaryH said:
			
		

> , I noticed that London is only turning up Allen House with no availability and when I check the directory, 2 Hyde Park Sq. is no longer there With the SA, the problems with transfer and reunification, I am not a happy camper...


Their "contract" must have run out.


----------



## MaryH (Mar 2, 2006)

2 Hyde Park is primarily a hotel / apt-hotel.  Either the contract ran out or the rate increased I think..


----------



## Hoc (Mar 3, 2006)

MaryH said:
			
		

> 2 Hyde Park is primarily a hotel / apt-hotel.  Either the contract ran out or the rate increased I think..



Yes, but they added the Affinia Manhattan, so one more in New York.  I'm not sure, but I think Prague is new, as is Budapest.


----------



## MULTIZ321 (Mar 3, 2006)

*Lynden Gardens, NYC*

Lynden Gardens, NYC is no longer one of the RHC affiliate properties.

The two in NYC are Affinia Dumont and Affinia Manhattan.


Richard


----------



## MaryH (Mar 3, 2006)

Hoc,

Prague is there before but Prague 9 not on the metro is not a great location. I would recommend people pass on that, especially for the points they charge, you can get apt rental or hotels in a much better better locations.


----------



## royalholidayclubbed (Mar 13, 2006)

*New properties? . . . Chile*

There is a GREAT property in Puyehue, Chile - an overnight bus ride (or you can go by plane if you are not adventurous) from Santiago. The Chilean freeway is FABULOUS - similar in quality to european or american etc.

It is a SPA in a fabulous contryside surrounding close to a lake. I would 100% recommend it (it would just a little more than your RHC admin fee for a week - so there is no great RHC benefit - as we know!)

Breakfast included - and it is good quality (though obviously after 3-4 days one gets tired of the same stuff!) - and you can fill yourself to the gunnels!

Here are links:

http://www.club.royal-holiday.com/index.php?fuseaction=home.resort&id=130

http://www.chile-hotels.com/puyehueh.htm

If you like going for walks or fishing this is for you!


----------



## JoeMid (Mar 13, 2006)

MULTIZ321 said:
			
		

> Lynden Gardens, NYC is no longer one of the RHC affiliate properties.The two in NYC are Affinia Dumont and Affinia Manhattan.
> Richard


This is now listed, its pictures still say Lynden Gardens


*AFFINIA GARDENS*
In the heart of the stylish Upper East Side sits Affinia Gardens, a quiet and elegant retreat. Within easy walking distance of some of New York’s most exclusive boutiques, art galleries and restaurants, Affinia Gardens is a popular destination for leisure and international travellers. The hotel has the feeling of a private Manhattan residence and private patios are featured in several suites.


----------



## MULTIZ321 (Mar 13, 2006)

*Lynden Gardens, NYC*

Joe,

The Lynden Gardens is still listed on their website but when I called and tried to book there, the rep told me it was no longer one of their affiliate properties.

Perhaps given the problems other RHC members have had with administrative issues, it might be useful for another RHC member to verify if the Lynden Gardens has been dropped.

Richard


----------



## Spence (Mar 13, 2006)

MULTIZ321 said:
			
		

> Joe,The Lynden Gardens is still listed on their website but when I called and tried to book there, the rep told me it was no longer one of their affiliate properties.
> Perhaps given the problems other RHC members have had with administrative issues, it might be useful for another RHC member to verify if the Lynden Gardens has been dropped.
> Richard


Maybe the problem is it changed names to AFFINIA GARDENS.  It was totally gone when you posted on 3Mar06 but now it's back with a changed name?


----------



## MULTIZ321 (Mar 14, 2006)

*Affinia Gardens*

Spence,

You're right - the Lynden Gardens is now part of the Affinia collection of hotels
and has a new name Affinia Gardens.

Here's more info on the Affinia Gardens Hotel 

from the Affinia website.

So RHC has 3 NYC properties - Affinia Dumont, Affinia Manhattan and Affinia Gardens.

Thanks for the correction.

Richard


----------



## Blondie (Mar 14, 2006)

I thought they had several in Puerto Vallarta, including Buenaventura and Hacienda. Now it seems they only have listed Holiday Inn and Los Tules. Unles I am just remembering incorrectly... checked out Los Tules last week and it looks nice and cozy- it gets good reviews too.


----------



## danmac156 (Mar 14, 2006)

Blondie said:
			
		

> I thought they had several in Puerto Vallarta, including Buenaventura and Hacienda. Now it seems they only have listed Holiday Inn and Los Tules. Unles I am just remembering incorrectly... checked out Los Tules last week and it looks nice and cozy- it gets good reviews too.



Los Tules is wonderful. PM me if you want any info and photos. The other resorts in PV that they dropped were dogs.


----------



## MaryH (Mar 15, 2006)

I had a couple of issues with 2 Hyde Park last year with a leaky radiator and for them to try to charge me GBP 85-90 for calling an international toll free conference number..  But loss of 1 of 2 London property and the remainder RTU at Allen House up in 2012, it is still a bit of a blow...


----------



## danmac156 (Mar 15, 2006)

*RHC Operating Rules*

I found the operating rules for RH on their website. You have to be a member and sign in. Click on the site map followed by operating rules.

It is a PDF file. I can email it to anyone if you PM me.


----------



## arlene22 (Mar 18, 2006)

MaryH said:
			
		

> With RHC, you really should do your due diligence BEFORE you purchase.
> You should get from the seller:
> Contract # / Membership number
> Type of contract - # of points or week usable.
> ...



Do you recommend doing this even if you buy from Holiday Group?


----------



## Blondie (Mar 19, 2006)

Yes, but they do guarantee a clear title and are farily easy to work with.


----------



## JillChang (Mar 19, 2006)

well,

I ended up buying two RHC on eBay.  One from Holiday Group, which I feel safe after reading that they do hold up their promise, I got 20K for $455.  The other 15K for $250 from a 98.5% rating timeshare vendor.  I followed the advice given to me here and did as much due dilligence as I can on this second purchse, everything checked out on the phone, and the seller seems straight forward with information, so my only worry is that there are things which he might not even know about now that may come up later, we shall see.  I passed on a third auction from an individual after reading this thread and decided if I buy RHC, I should stick with reputable sellers, and only larger contracts.  I will try to buy another 20K+ contract if I can pick it up cheap.

Before I bought RHC, I already read how tedius it is to unify it and the troubles RHC has with its administration.  So I am allowing myself lots of time for closing and unification.  I don't plan on using it until 2007.  But like most of you mentioned, RHC seems to have some nice resorts/hotel in cities where timeshares are non-existent, so I am prepared to put up with all the headache, so I can do some travelling in Europe in the future.

*By the way, what European RHC resorts do you recommend? * 

I am open to any cities as I have not travel that much in Europe before, but like to visit England, Italy, France, and Spain first, and then the others later on.  This will be part of our around-the-world tour I am planning with my parent and sons, it is a big trip so I want to start doing some homework.  I am looking for interesting or historical places to visit, not the beaches for vacationing purpose. (But great shopping is a must!   )

Now I know even 60K (if I get another 20k+ contract) is not enough in this case, so I am accumulating 2006 and 2007 points to use in 2007, and If I need more hotel, I will just have to try to get a trade from my other timeshare, or priceline it.  I wonder if I can borrow 2008 points?


----------



## MULTIZ321 (Mar 19, 2006)

*Borrowing from the Back End*

Jill,
Don't forget,
If you're over 50, you can borrow points from the "back-end" of your RTU - to do so you would pay the maintenance fee for that year to bring the points forward to the current year. If you did this, your RTU would be shorteded by one year.


Richard


----------



## danmac156 (Mar 19, 2006)

*Turning 50*

I read RHC rules which state you can accelerate your points if "when you bought you were 50 years old". I wonder if savy secondary market buyers will be able to take advantage of this feature. I bought two older contracts last year and just turned 50.


----------



## JillChang (Mar 20, 2006)

MULTIZ321 said:
			
		

> Jill,
> Don't forget,
> If you're over 50, you can borrow points from the "back-end" of your RTU - to do so you would pay the maintenance fee for that year to bring the points forward to the current year. If you did this, your RTU would be shorteded by one year.
> 
> ...



Sadly,    I am not yet 50, should I claim that I am?


----------



## JoeMid (Mar 20, 2006)

You cannot borrow from 2008, they will try to 'rent' you points at an outrageous rate or even sell you more points.

I would not throw lies into the mix, it's hard enough as it is.  I don't know what they require as proof.

I agree with the way danmac reads the over fifty rule but from phone conversations it appears that it may be interpreted as "if you are fifty, you can accelerate"


----------



## MaryH (Mar 20, 2006)

arlene22 said:
			
		

> Do you recommend doing this even if you buy from Holiday Group?



Arlene,

Definitely since on at least one contract I purchased from Holiday Group, the info given was incorrect.  I checked and there were significant amount of points with one contract I was offering for so went to the max of the range I was willing to pay due to the points figured in.  The rep did not know about the chunk of points and tried to change the rules and charge me 2005 M/F and I fought it and did not budge.  If I was not as sure of my info and could say I knew about it and made the offer with it figured in, I would have far more trouble.  

Holiday Group does not alway verify all the info and sometimes take the owners word and they might not be clear either.

Also, when I look at the listing, you only see # points in contract and expiration year but the number of points that come with it could effect the price/ deal.


----------



## MaryH (Mar 20, 2006)

Jill,

What is your total cost? I would guess 
Holiday Group 20K = $455 + 395 HG closing + 350 Resort Transfer + $485 M/F + 200 SA?

The 15K = 250+ 350 resort transfer fee + 425 M/F + 170 SA?

With all the hassel for unification, I would go for a higher point value contract since it is a major ****.  Looking at the point / M/F chart, I like the 60K total point amount and you can get 2-3 decent weeks out of it.

You also need to check your two contracts when was the last time it was rolled over.  If it was rolled over from last year to this year 100%, you can only rollover 20%.   For example, with over 100K banked points from my purchased contract, I rolled 60% of mine over last year so I have just a shade over 145K RHC points this year and I need to use up more than 125K.

If you are travelling with 5-6 people, you need more than 60K for Europe since you need more than 1 unit.  London only has Allen House now and you can only get it in low season Oct-Apr I believe.  With that number of people, I might look into apt rental as well as RHC.  Paris would definitely be on my list and I think I would be interested in Madrid or Rome. 

My first every trip to Europe many moons ago was London, Edinburgh, Paris, Nice, Venice, Florence and Rome for 3 weeks and it was great   Hotel or B&B only and a couple of private rooms in hostels or student residences.


----------



## JillChang (Mar 21, 2006)

MaryH said:
			
		

> Jill,
> 
> What is your total cost? I would guess
> Holiday Group 20K = $455 + 395 HG closing + 350 Resort Transfer + $485 M/F + 200 SA?
> ...



Mary,

I didn't have to pay SA for both these contracts, they were paid.  I was looking for a higher point contract, but couldn't find one with a decent price.  The one I did find on eBay I missed because I was travelling in China.  I am still looking.  I don't mind paying higher price for one bigger contract, but I was unwilling to pay over 5K for a 40k contract.

Like my post in the other forum, I am looking at a week contract as well.  What is your thought on week Vs. points in RHC membership?  This particular membership is for an ambassador unit in high season, but as I am beggining to grasp, not all week contract are the same.  This one, for example, can use in most of Europe, but excludes July, August, Xmas and NY.  In New York, it excludes Affini garden and Manhattan.  I am interested in this week membership for use in Europe only, but the exclusion of July and August is a draw back because that's when my kids are off from school.  The other thing is the MF is 700, which only makes it economical to use in very few cities such as Florence, for example.

Jill


----------



## MaryH (Mar 22, 2006)

Probably in a month or two, there will be RHC contracts for sale that would not require you to reimburse the M/F and may have some banked points.

Not all RHC weeks contracts are created equal.  I would not take any low or mid-season weeks and if the one you looked at excluded July, Aug, it is probably a mid season week.  Excluding Xmas and New Years is okay.  I definitely prefer points since it offers far more flexibility and usually lower costs than weeks.  For example, if you get 60k, your M/F cost per point is about 1.5 cents US which makes 700$ M/F week  45-50K points.  Only a few properties are in that range.  If you really must buy a week, buy one that can be split to 2 reservations just in case since you might not be able to get a full week at some popular places.

Mary


----------



## jerseygirl (Mar 22, 2006)

I assume you are speculating about seasons, since the most popular weeks membership sold was HIGH season, which excludes July in August in some locations, but not others.  Prime season memberships are very hard to find.  And, despite what you read on ebay, there is no such thing as a weeks membership that only excludes the holidays.  The seasons are resort-specific, not membership-specific.

It's very easy to use the website to determine which weeks fall into which season.  It's the same chart for points and weeks users.


----------



## MaryH (Mar 22, 2006)

I remember seeing a prime week for sale on eBay and the problem was I would have to pay the resort transfer fee and it had only 3 years remaining on the contract, adding an extra 120+ per year so ended up passing on it.  Do not remember which was the home resort... I am pretty sure that one excluded holiday weeks at 1-50.


----------



## jerseygirl (Mar 22, 2006)

Ebay ads are misleading/wrong more often than not.  To reiterate, you can determine the exact season information, on a resort-by-resort basis, by reviewing the credits section of the resort directory.

It's surprising that you ran across a membership with only 3 years remaining.  RHC started selling the multi-resorts weeks membership in the late 80s.  They had a 30 year term, making the earliest expirations in the 2017-2018 range.  You must have run across a seller who took advantage of the "over 50" acceleration rules.

I wish I had $1 for every RHC membership sold with bad information on eBay.  I'm trying to keep it from spreading to this board as well.


----------



## MaryH (Mar 22, 2006)

I know I usually get the contract number from the seller and check direct with RHC.  On 2 occassions I found incorrect information from the seller / broker.  The 2 weeks contracts I was looking at last fall I did check with RHC and one was week 1-50 and the other was excluded the summer.

I did expected the short expiry was due to accelertation since most other contracts end in the 2020 - 2030 range.


----------



## jerseygirl (Mar 22, 2006)

Mary,

The information you received from RHC was also incorrect unless you were considering buying a "single resort" membership (the earliest membership types they sold).  I think all owners are used to getting conflicting information when we call RHC, so this shouldn't surprise you.

Once RHC started selling multi-resort memberships, the seasons became resort-specific.  So, while High Season might be 1-50 at one resort, it will be everything except for July and August at another resort, or only July and August.  Like a lot of things with RHC, there's no real rhyme or reason to how the specific seasons were assigned.  For example, when Two Hyde Park was available, High Season there was different than High Season at Allen House.  Both are in London, so that makes no sense ... but, that's the way it was.  At Wave Crest resort (So. California), Prime Season is President's, Holy Week, Easter Week, Christmas and New Year's.  But, High Season includes July and August, when most people like to go to the beach.  Again, it makes no sense -- but that's the way it is.

Those of us who actually own weeks memberships have online account access that is specific to our own memberships.  If I have two different weeks memberships, one will include a different set of resorts (and associated sizes and seasons) than the other one --- the contracts were defined upon purchase, so one orginially sold in 1992 will be different than one originally sold in 1993.

The important thing to note is that you received incorrect information if you were told that a specific weeks membership was limited to 1-50 or no holidays.  That's simply not true (unless the membership was limited to one resort only -- the very earliest memberships they sold).

-- Jerseygirl


----------



## MaryH (Mar 23, 2006)

good information Jerseygirl.  

I looked at weeks briefly and could have been given incorrect information from HG and RHC very easily.  I decided against it since the points were more suited for my needs and the week M/F cost is higher vs equivalent costs for points if you have a large points contract.


----------



## royalholidayclubbed (Mar 29, 2006)

*Over 50*



			
				JoeMid said:
			
		

> You cannot borrow from 2008, they will try to 'rent' you points at an outrageous rate or even sell you more points.
> 
> I would not throw lies into the mix, it's hard enough as it is.  I don't know what they require as proof.
> 
> I agree with the way danmac reads the over fifty rule but from phone conversations it appears that it may be interpreted as "if you are fifty, you can accelerate"



Why can´t you borrow form 2008?

I know the acceleration rule is applied by taking off the LAST year the contract is to run for and double it into this year (if that is what you want).

But remember - you still need to pay the TWO maintainance fees !!!!
One for each year of points used.


----------

