# Time Share Ownership Advice



## uaremymuse (Jan 5, 2020)

Can anyone explain to me how it makes financial sense to own a time share?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## CPNY (Jan 5, 2020)

uaremymuse said:


> Can anyone explain to me how it makes financial sense to own a time share?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Depends on where you own. Booking a room at Westin in Maui for a week could run 5K+ or you can pick up a resale cheap and pay less in annual fees. Atlantis for example. While owning there is pricy due to the annual fees and high VAT tax, it’s still much much less than booking two hotel rooms at the Atlantis towers.
Timeshares aren’t an investment. (Except Disney).


----------



## bizaro86 (Jan 5, 2020)

uaremymuse said:


> Can anyone explain to me how it makes financial sense to own a time share?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



How does it make financial sense to own a car? Just like a car, a timeshare depreciates dramatically. However, in both cases there is use value.

I spend way less on my vacations than I would in hotels, and stay in multi-bedroom condos in nice resorts.


----------



## DavidnRobin (Jan 5, 2020)

uaremymuse said:


> Can anyone explain to me how it makes financial sense to own a time share?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



This...






Seriously- for example I bought 2 resale weeks at a high-end Resort (for good money) over a decade ago and rented them out mainly since then - and they have paid for themselves (plus). Now I can rent them, use them, or get a nice 1Bd (fully contained) at a high-end Maui Resort for $115/nt.

I also own Ocean Front at the same resort (2Bd LO) where I rent the studio side so the one bedroom side costs us only $200/nt (photo above from balcony).  Again, a fully contained 1250sqft villa with panoramic OF views.

That is how it makes sense - use them correctly and with forethought.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## artringwald (Jan 5, 2020)

Because timeshares can be difficult to rent, sell, or even give away, you shouldn't buy one unless you're sure your financial future will allow you to travel and use it for many years to come. Having said that, we bought 3 weeks in Kauai. It costs us about $260/night for a 2 bedroom, ocean front unit. Booking at the same property through Expedia would cost over $500/night and would only be partial ocean view.


----------



## pedro47 (Jan 5, 2020)

Owning a timeshare, Does it make sense. No.
Do I enjoy traveling with my family members in a two bedroom  unit with a full kitchen; four to six times per year. Yes.
Do I enjoy see my spouse, my parents, my son and my grandchildren and my friends  happy. Yes.
Do I enjoy traveling to over ten states in the United States using my timeshare.Yes.
Financially, the average stay at a resort with two bedrooms, full kitchen, two full baths, a living and dining room, with WiFi, with cable tv, three televisions, gas grills for barbecuing  with amenities liked a full pool, basketball, golf, tennis courts, pickle ball, walking trails bike trails, and play areas for young children would be over on the low end $200 per night.

Owning a timeshare for my family and I does make sense For all the Happy Memories for the past Twenty-Five Years.


----------



## paxsarah (Jan 5, 2020)

Is the underlying premise that it can make financial sense to go on vacation at all? If no, then it would never make sense to own a timeshare (outside of a profitable timeshare rental business).

If yes, then others have given a variety of answers about how timeshare ownership can lead to vacations at a lower cost than staying in a conventional hotel (or for a similar cost but in a superior accommodation). I cook some meals in our unit simply because I don’t want to eat out for every meal, and that’s also a cost savings. _If_ you were going to vacation regularly anyway, then timeshare ownership with research and planning can make financial sense.


----------



## Jan M. (Jan 5, 2020)

If you learn and make good choices about what and where to own it makes excellent financial sense. From July 18-December 19 we were home only 28 nights. We first bought in 2002 and could never, ever have afforded to take all the vacations we've taken all these years without our timeshares. My husband retired in 2017 so we are pretty much free to go any time we want now but even before he retired there has never been a year that we didn't take multiple vacations even when our son was in college, getting married and when my husband changed jobs. My sister and brother-in-law, sometimes with their friends, my nephew and his family, my husband's mother and her friend, his sister and her friends, and his brother and sister-in-law, plus friends of ours have all enjoyed vacations with us and on their own.

Pictures speak louder than words! When you see pictures without people in them, those are views from our units! I'm not even posting pictures from every place stayed during that 5 month time period! Other resorts not included in the pictures are Reunion in Orlando, Palm-Aire in Pompano Beach, Wyndham Nashville, Fairfield Glade also in Tennessee, and Harbor Lights in San Diego. There are other resorts we stayed at during the first half of the year too.

Spring 2019 at Vacation Village at Parkway and Disney World's Saratoga Springs Resort
  

July/August 2019, with our son, DIL and 2 granddaughters. Wyndham Glacier Canyon with 4 indoor and 4 outdoor water parks and Sundara with the amazing spa. We stayed at both again in September/October with friends, adults only this time.
 
August 2019, with our two granddaughters. Wyndham Clearwater, Wyndham Bonnet Creek in Orlando and Wyndham Ocean Walk in Daytona Beach. We stayed at OW again in October with our younger granddaughter and also at Star Island. At Star Island there was a dance party with a DJ on the bar side of the upstairs lounge. We are on the other side of the lounge dancing to the music and playing cornhole.


   
 
September 2019, Fairfield Plantation in Villa Rica, Georgia, The Lighthouse Resort on Sanibel Island, FL for my husband's birthday and Wyndham Royal Vista in Pompano Beach, FL
  
October/November, Wyndham Austin.
  
November Wyndham Portland
 
November/December Ka Eo Kai and Kauai Beach Villas in Hawaii. The mountain you see in the background is called Sleeping Giant.
  
December 2019, Caribe Beach Resort on Sanibel Island, FL


----------



## dgalati (Jan 5, 2020)

Jan M. said:


> If you learn and make good choices about what and where to own it makes excellent financial sense. From July 18-December 19 we were home only 28 nights. We first bought in 2002 and could never, ever have afforded to take all the vacations we've taken all these years without our timeshares. My husband retired in 2017 so we are pretty much free to go any time we want now but even before he retired there has never been a year that we didn't take multiple vacations even when our son was in college, getting married and when my husband changed jobs. My sister and brother-in-law, sometimes with their friends, my nephew and his family, my husband's mother and her friend, his sister and her friends, and his brother and sister-in-law, plus friends of ours have all enjoyed vacations with us and on their own.
> 
> Pictures speak louder than words! When you see pictures without people in them, those are views from our units! I'm not even posting pictures from every place stayed during that 5 month time period! Other resorts not included in the pictures are Reunion in Orlando, Palm-Aire in Pompano Beach, Wyndham Nashville, Fairfield Glade also in Tennessee, and Harbor Lights in San Diego. There are other resorts we stayed at during the first half of the year too.
> 
> ...


How did you like Portland ? Did you do any sightseeing in Washington?  Columbia gorge or Mt Saint Helen's area's ?


----------



## Brett (Jan 5, 2020)

bizaro86 said:


> How does it make financial sense to own a car? Just like a car, a timeshare depreciates dramatically. However, in both cases there is use value.
> 
> I spend way less on my vacations than I would in hotels, and stay in multi-bedroom condos in nice resorts.



yes, timeshares (bought resale) or rented are often better than comparable hotels


----------



## Carta (Jan 5, 2020)

Timesharing has changed sooooo much...It used to make sense 20-30 years ago. Now it is NOT worth it.. Simply because of the INTERNET.. Years ago when people were in their 20's and 30's and even 40's, they figured; we can vacation with kids and friends every year and go anywhere..But then reality set in...M-Fees, obligation to travel every year, kids get older and don't wanna go..U and wifey get old and don't wanna go..Guess What? U still must pay Fees that have grown....This why so many companies advertise to "Sell Your Timeshare"...

  If ur mind is set on buying a t/s, Never buy a deeded property...Tell them u want a RTU (right to use)....Same as buying deeded property BUT u don't have to pay forever......In my case I bought a cheap t/s 20 years ago..I paid fees EOY (every other year)......I bought just to exchange to other areas...Actually never saw the inside of 1bdrm we purchased ..Worked great for us...Made last fee payment last year....

PS...Makes no sense to buy a T/S....U can use the internet to go anywhere at anytime....There are so many disgruntled t/s owners that just don't wanna pay MF...
I go online and pay owner's MF and they make a profit...Works for me..Plus I help owner


----------



## Jan M. (Jan 5, 2020)

dgalati said:


> How did you like Portland ? Did you do any sightseeing in Washington?  Columbia gorge or Mt Saint Helen's area's ?



We were only there for two nights, one full day, as a stopover on the way to Hawaii so didn't have time to do much. We stayed at Harbor Lights in San Diego on the way back. Being able to stay at the resorts was nice because it broke up the time spent flying and it also saved us money on our flights.

We did get to see Mt. St. Helen's from the airplane. Our one bedroom presidential unit was very nice. We did walk around the city; a lot more than we intended because we took a wrong turn. Portland has lot of very nice parks and some lovely old buildings. At the end of our wandering I walked back to the resort and my husband went on to Powell's Bookstore to check it out. It's the worlds largest independent bookstore. No way was I going with him because I know what happens when we go to a bookstore together; we are a very bad influence on each other!

Portland likes their food and so did we. We ate at Kells Irish Pub, Tangier Moroccan and Mediterranean Restaurant and had burgers at Bless Your Heart in the Pine Street Market.

It was very easy and cheap to take the TriMet from the airport to the resort and back.


----------



## uaremymuse (Jan 5, 2020)

Carta said:


> Timesharing has changed sooooo much...It used to make sense 20-30 years ago. Now it is NOT worth it.. Simply because of the INTERNET.. Years ago when people were in their 20's and 30's and even 40's, they figured; we can vacation with kids and friends every year and go anywhere..But then reality set in...M-Fees, obligation to travel every year, kids get older and don't wanna go..U and wifey get old and don't wanna go..Guess What? U still must pay Fees that have grown....This why so many companies advertise to "Sell Your Timeshare"...
> 
> If ur mind is set on buying a t/s, Never buy a deeded property...Tell them u want a RTU (right to use)....Same as buying deeded property BUT u don't have to pay forever......In my case I bought a cheap t/s 20 years ago..I paid fees EOY (every other year)......I bought just to exchange to other areas...Actually never saw the inside of 1bdrm we purchased ..Worked great for us...Made last fee payment last year....
> 
> ...



Thanks. Your opinion is my experience. I can rent owner’s time shares for less than what it would cost me to buy and then pay annual maintenance fees. I’m retired so it’s very easy to do this. And of course with VRBO, Airbnb, etc, it’s very renter price friendly. I owned a TS once that I got at zero cost; the last two weeks of the year at Polo Towers, Christmas and New Years for a two bedroom in the Marriott renovated tower. I could never rent them. Why? Because PT were renting them for much less. They screwed their TS owners at every turn. I suspect all the other TS companies do the same. I’m a finance guy and it has never made any financial sense. I understand those who do it and why they do it but it still doesn’t make financial sense given the availability of homes, condos, and TS owners who don’t use them anymore. The numbers just don’t support owning them and I dare anyone to show me numbers that support ownership. The only way it would make sense is if you could write it off as a business expense on one’s tax filings; then it works until the irs questions it, which they will at some point. Thanks for your reply. I really wish they made sense because I’d buy 52 weeks of them and travel non stop. But paying $50k-$75k+ a year in Maintenace fees for a depreciating asset makes little sense. I’ll stick to renting from TS owners, Airbnb, etc. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## LannyPC (Jan 5, 2020)

Carta said:


> Makes no sense to buy a T/S....U can use the internet to go anywhere at anytime....There are so many disgruntled t/s owners that just don't wanna pay MF...
> I go online and pay owner's MF and they make a profit...Works for me..Plus I help owner



There are also many happy TS owners who would gladly pay the MFs over what it would cost them to rent there.  I do agree with you however that "[you] can use the internet to go anywhere at anytime" and you can "go online and pay owner's MF".  For some that works for them.  For others, as so many have shown in this thread, ownership makes more sense.

After all, this is Timeshare Users Group, not Timeshare Bashers' Group.


----------



## LannyPC (Jan 5, 2020)

uaremymuse said:


> The numbers just don’t support owning them and I dare anyone to show me numbers that support ownership.
> 
> I’ll stick to renting from TS owners, Airbnb, etc.



Well maybe you missed a lot of posts in this thread and other similar threads where owners are spelling out clearly how owning TSs make sense to them financially.  For a limited number of intervals, the MFs are lesser than what it would cost to rent and they get the weeks that they want.

But for our personal tastes and circumstances, I agree with you that renting from current owners or using AirBNB, or even hotels/motels makes more sense to us.


----------



## LannyPC (Jan 5, 2020)

uaremymuse said:


> I owned a TS once that I got at zero cost; the last two weeks of the year at Polo Towers, Christmas and New Years for a two bedroom in the Marriott renovated tower. I could never rent them. Why? Because PT were renting them for much less. They screwed their TS owners at every turn. I suspect all the other TS companies do the same.



I understand your frustration with this.  This is kind of a catch-22 for the resorts.  By one stretch, renting these intervals or nights out for less than the MFs screws the owners in that it would make more sense for the owners to rent there rather than own there and pay the MFs.  OTOH, credit the resorts for renting out rooms that would otherwise go empty.  This is trying to get at least some money into the system that would defray from the owners paying MFs.  It might also lure potential buyers there who just might buy an available interval.  The renters would also likely be spending money at the resort which, again, would get some money in there to help with the cost of running the resort and, hence, defray from the owners' MFs.

I do agree with you, however from a personal experience.  Just over a year ago, we rented through Expedia at a TS resort the exact nights we wanted for less on a per-night basis than what the owners there are paying in MFs (according to For Sale ads on Red Week).  But at least it got some money into the resort's system including money that we spent at the resort, rather than that room going empty.


----------



## bogey21 (Jan 5, 2020)

uaremymuse said:


> Can anyone explain to me how it makes financial sense to own a time share?



I'll give you another spin on this.  For about 10 years I owned Weeks in Ruidoso, NM; Deerfield Beach, FL; Biloxi, MS; Key West, FL; and Myrtle Beach, SC.  These were Fixed Weeks/Fixed Units.  As I recall my average cost for these weeks was about $750 each and their average MF was between $500 and $600.  The beauty of it was I knew when I would be going thus I was able to arrange low cost air fare and car rentals.  In addition I had carefully selected Units that I knew I would occupy every year...

George


----------



## cman (Jan 5, 2020)

uaremymuse said:


> Can anyone explain to me how it makes financial sense to own a time share?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


If what someone needed was not readily available on the rental market, owning might make financial sense. If they had a need for a specific week/unit at a specific resort during a time when rentals tend to be in short supply, owning may be the only option for them.

With the exception of the example above, I can't explain how it makes "financial" sense to own a timeshare week when you can rent the same product on the rental market. I too am a numbers guy, and my decision to rent vs. buy is strictly financial in nature. None of the perks of ownership are of any value to me. I just rent the week, enjoy my stay, then it's off to the next one. However, I realize that everyone's not like me. There's a lot of happy owners out there that find value in the things that I don't, and are happy to pay for it. Some find value in the fact that they own something. Some like the flexibility of being to book well in advance, and will pay a premium for it. There's probably a hundred other reasons why people prefer to own, let's just be thankful that they do. If more people decide to own, that's more opportunity for us renters.


----------



## bluehende (Jan 5, 2020)

Whether it makes sense is always a very personal question.  If you want to go a lot of places and have maximum flexibility then a timeshare does not make sense.  If your maintenance fees are more than you can rent for a timeshare makes no sense.  I am a creature of habit and love going back to the same place every year.  This year it will be 16 in a row to our resort in VT.  When we first bought it we were saving a couple hundred dollars a year.  Now the savings are very small.  We keep it because we love going back and biking the trails every year.  If only for a week we become a member of that community.  We did a lot of charity work after Irene and many business owners still buy me a beer.  Our other timeshare is in WV and we are up to 12 years there.  It is primarily an owner resort so we have many friends we see.  This one is so well run that we save 300 dollars over any rental in the area.  For us it is enjoying going back to the same place every year that makes them worth it to us.  I am actually surprised how much we covet going back each year.


----------



## uaremymuse (Jan 5, 2020)

Based on the “pro” ownership side of the equation I guess it could be summarized as people simply enjoying it, and for a variety of reasons vs the alternative “con” side of the equation where it’s not a great financial investment nor practical decision. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Snazzylass (Jan 5, 2020)

cman said:


> I can't explain how it makes "financial" sense to own a timeshare week when you can rent the same product on the rental market.


Ahemmm..sure, when that is the case. Like any other type of real estate, results likely vary by location. If one buys because one wants to return to the same location over and over again, then your chances improve. 
Again and again, folks who own in HI say they are money ahead. I know I am in Sedona. 
And, thanks to the internet, I have the opposite problem. There once was a time when it was easy to rent extra nights at my T/S. No more! They are scooped up on AirBnb at double what I would have to pay as an owner. *sigh* Of course, maybe that's what's keeping my MF so reasonable- roughly the cost of 2 nights retail.


----------



## Rolltydr (Jan 5, 2020)

uaremymuse said:


> Can anyone explain to me how it makes financial sense to own a time share?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Simple answer. If I can afford it, if I and/or family members can use it, if it makes us happy spending vacation weeks together in nice condos instead of hotel rooms, it makes financial sense to me. It doesn’t matter to me if it makes financial sense ro you.


----------



## Carta (Jan 5, 2020)

Rolltydr, U just don't get it...Must be a rich guy


----------



## Rolltydr (Jan 5, 2020)

Carta said:


> Rolltydr, U just don't get it...Must be a rich guy


Nope, far, far from it. The TS is probably, definitely, our most lavish expense. I just don’t get hung up on trying to figure out if I’m going to recoup my investment. My happiness isn’t dependent on that. I will recoup my investment if we enjoy the TS vacations.


----------



## sue1947 (Jan 5, 2020)

Carta said:


> Rolltydr, U just don't get it...Must be a rich guy


No, actually, you don't get it.   Whether a timeshare makes financial sense depends on the individual's situation.  My last 2 timeshare stays cost me $229 and $300 each for a week in a 2 BR condo.  Where are you going to rent a 2 BR condo for that?   You don't have to be rich, you just have to be willing to do advance planning and work to understand how to work the system to best fit your needs.   Clearly, timeshares aren't for you or the OP.  Don't dismiss those of us who have made it work for us just because you can't.  
  The only way I can afford to travel is via timeshares.  Renting from others via any of the platforms has gotten way too expensive.  Example:  I've been looking to fill in a week in April and the place I want to go and the places I've stayed in the past, are all too expensive.   The cheapest house is listed at $125/night, but it's really $210/night with the "management fee", "administrative fee' and "service fee" plus cleaning fee.   I'll probably be able to use an AC at II for that week for $300 for the whole week.  Timeshares win for me.  They may not for you and definitely won't if you aren't willing to learn from others.


----------



## cman (Jan 5, 2020)

Rolltydr said:


> Nope, far, far from it. The TS is probably, definitely, our most lavish expense. I just don’t get hung up on trying to figure out if I’m going to recoup my investment. My happiness isn’t dependent on that. I will recoup my investment if we enjoy the TS vacations.



Sounds to me like you're in agreement with OP's follow-up post;



uaremymuse said:


> Based on the “pro” ownership side of the equation I guess it could be summarized as people simply enjoying it, and for a variety of reasons vs the alternative “con” side of the equation where it’s not a great financial investment nor practical decision.



You own because it meets your needs, and he rents because that's whats meets his needs.


----------



## uaremymuse (Jan 5, 2020)

Rolltydr said:


> Simple answer. If I can afford it, if I and/or family members can use it, if it makes us happy spending vacation weeks together in nice condos instead of hotel rooms, it makes financial sense to me. It doesn’t matter to me if it makes financial sense ro you.



There’s always one who feels a need to cross the line of cordiality. You win the award tonight. Hope you feel good and sleep well tonight. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Rolltydr (Jan 5, 2020)

uaremymuse said:


> There’s always one who feels a need to cross the line of cordiality. You win the award tonight. Hope you feel good and sleep well tonight.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I thought your original post suggested anyone would be nuts to purchase a timeshare. That crossed the line of cordiality to me. If that that wasn’t your intent, I apologize for taking it the wrong way. 

The point of my response is that everyone’s situation is different and they have to make their own decision based on that. You can’t say that a timeshare makes sense for everyone, or conversely, that it doesn't make sense for anyone.


----------



## uaremymuse (Jan 5, 2020)

Rolltydr said:


> I thought your original post suggested anyone would be nuts to purchase a timeshare. That crossed the line of cordiality to me. If that that wasn’t your intent, I apologize for taking it the wrong way.
> 
> The point of my response is that everyone’s situation is different and they have to make their own decision based on that. You can’t say that a timeshare makes sense for everyone, or conversely, that it doesn't make sense for anyone.



Where did I say it would be nuts for anyone to buy a TS?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Rolltydr (Jan 5, 2020)

uaremymuse said:


> Where did I say it would be nuts for anyone to buy a TS?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


“Can anyone explain to me how it makes financial sense to own a timeshare?”

In my reading of your question, there is an implication that it doesn’t make any sense to you. I get that tone when I read the question. Again, if that wasn’t your implication. I apologize.

In your subsequent post about the pro side and con side, which I had not read when I responded to your initial post, you make clear there are two points of view that are valid depending on each person’s situation. That is all I was trying to say in my response. Each person has to make the decision based on their own financial situation and what is important to them.


----------



## uaremymuse (Jan 5, 2020)

Rolltydr said:


> “Can anyone explain to me how it makes financial sense to own a timeshare?”
> 
> In my reading of your question, there is an implication that it doesn’t make any sense to you. I get that tone when I read the question. Again, if that wasn’t your implication. I apologize.
> 
> In your subsequent post about the pro side and con side, which I had not read when I responded to your initial post, you make clear there are two points of view that are valid depending on each person’s situation. That is all I was trying to say in my response. Each person has to make the decision based on their own financial situation and what is important to them.



Interesting that you’re the only one who responded who could interpret a tone from my question that implied something more than just an honest question. Regardless, I accept your apology. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Jan M. (Jan 5, 2020)

I agree with sue1947. The sad part of both uaremynuse and Carta's posts is that they are basing their opinions on their clearly limited experience and not very good information. Uaremymuse, you may be a finance guy but that doesn't make you knowledgeable about all timeshares. It appears that you are looking for validations of your opinions rather than gaining useful informaiton.  I go back to my first line of my post "If you learn and make good choices it makes excellent financial sense." Not all of us made great choices at first but we learned and readjusted our portfolios. I've been very upfront in saying that some of our timeshare purchases that I've made have been pure dumb luck rather than well informed choices. However I learned from from the not smart choices, the smart choices and the dumb luck choices. TUG helped me build on what I learned.

The first rule of buying a timeshare is that you NEVER purchase a timeshare as a financial investment! In our budgets vacations come under expenses so if you are taking vacations you have expenses. A timeshare is an expense. But it should be an expense that allows you to take vacations at a price you wouldn't otherwise get.

My second rule is understanding your needs. Some people need to own when and where they want to go. That is likely to cost them more but if it gets them what they want and need then it can be a good choice for them. Other people, like us before we retired, have the luxury of being able to be more flexible with scheduling and taking vacation time. That makes owning a points based timeshare perfect for us and other people like us.

You want numbers? We have two 122,000 point weeks at Grandview Las Vegas with 2020 maintenance fees of $835. No increase from 2019. Btw I got these weeks on TUG. On one the other person paid the closing costs and transfer fee. We only paid the RCI fee of $98 to have it transferred to our RCI points account. For the second 122,000 point week I paid the closing costs of $215, the reosrt transfer fee of $250 and the $98 RCI fee. *That makes our total purchase cost for the two 122,000 point weeks $661.* I pay our RCI annual dues and also for the RCI  platinum benefits for the maximum number of years, 5, to get the larges discounts on them. At the current rates it comes to just a little under $164 so we will use that figure.

To get my cost per point for either the year, 2019 or 2020, I would add the maintenance fees for both weeks 2 x $835 plus the $164 for the RCI annual dues and platinum benefits. $1834 divided by 244,000 points = $0.0075 per point.

So how did I use those points and what was my cost per week including the $239 RCI exchange fee? These are some put not all of our stays from April 2019 to this week. Some of these resorts we stayed at more than once or longer than just one week.

Reunion 3BR/3 Bath, Star Island, 2BR/2 Bath, Bonnet Creek 2 BR/2 Bath, Silver Lake Resort 2BR/2 Bath,  all in Orlando. On Sanibel Island, FL, the Lighthouse Resort 3 BR/2 Bath and Shell Island Resort 2BR/2 Bath. All of them 7500 points, *cost per week $295.25*
Vacation Village at Parkway 2 BR/2 Bath, 4900 points, *cost per week $275.75*
Austin 1 BR/1 Bath, 6000 points, *cost $284*
Caloosa Cove resort in Islamorada, Florida Keys the larger 1BR/2 Bath that sleeps 6, 9000 points, *cost $306.50.* We are staying here this week.

I typically book one week a year at full points and for this year I used a lot more points than I've ever used to get something I really wanted but it is so worth it to me. In March I have a week at Disney's Animal Kingdom Kidani Village in a savanna view unit. It is a 1BR/2 Bath that sleeps 5. Our son and both granddaughters will be with us.
71,000 points, cost includes the $190 fee we will pay at check in. $961.50. That is over three times the cost of what I typically spend on a week but it helps when I check the Disney World website and see that the current price for our week in the same accommodations is $7230.40

*We could easily live out of our timeshares year round for no more than $17,000-$20,000 for the year and that is without doing a single rental to offset our costs.* Those numbers include all our maintenance fees on everything we own, the RCI dues and paying the $239 exchange fees for some of the weeks.

While renting does work best for some people due to their finances and needs it isn't for everyone nor is it cheaper.


----------



## paxsarah (Jan 5, 2020)

uaremymuse said:


> Based on the “pro” ownership side of the equation I guess it could be summarized as people simply enjoying it, and for a variety of reasons vs the alternative “con” side of the equation where it’s not a great financial investment nor practical decision.



There were also several people on the “pro” side of the equation who offered practical reasons for owning timeshares. I find it interesting that you’re not accounting for them in this summary.

I also didn’t see anyone touting a timeshare as a financial investment, but if one purchases them on the resale market for a pittance, why would that even come into the conversation? (I bought my most recent timeshare and my most recent road bike both used from eBay. The bicycle actually cost a few hundred dollars more than the timeshare, and it would seem silly if I bought it as an investment. I bought it to use it, just like the timeshare.)


----------



## travelhacker (Jan 5, 2020)

As far as the independent resorts go:

There are a ton of stinkers, and there a number of diamonds in the rough...places that are very pleasant, nice accommodations that have maintenance fees at a decent discount off of what you would pay to stay to rent in an equivalent unit.

The negatives to timeshare ownership are:
1) Less flexibility...timeshares just don't have the number of options that hotels and vacation rentals have.
2) Annual maintenance fees, which must be paid whether you use the unit or not. They will always be there and typically go up 2-8% annually.
3) They almost always depreciate in value. Buying resale is the way to go, but even at the best resorts often go down in value. 

Where I think a lot of TUGgers have found tremendous value is by purchasing into a particular system and learning the ins and outs of it and using that knowledge to either:

1) Book a "more valuable" stay. For example, if you own in Westin Kierland your maintenance fees are about $1900 for a platinum 2 bedroom. If you use star options, you could book a week in Kaanapali using those star options. The "rack" rate for the stay in Kaanapali could be upwards of $5-$7000. If you paid $10,000 (resale) for that Westin Kierland week, you'd only have to do that a handful of times for it to pay off...more so considering that Westin Kierland holds its value well.

2) Book a "more comfortable" stay. Traveling with a larger group becomes much easier if you can book a 2 or 3 bedroom unit. Yes, you can use AirBNB for these larger units, but they typically don't have the amenities that a resort provides (i.e. great pool, activities, etc). You could always book multiple hotel rooms, but it's just not the same.

Some TUGgers are fantastic at exchanging to get a trade that provides tremendous value to them. Admittedly, I'm not great at it. However, I used 430 Hyatt points to book a week at Marriott Ko'olina for my parents in December. They absolutely loved it and I looked like an amazing son. My cost for the maintenance fee and exchange was only about $500.00. The rack rate was around $400 per night! 

I have seen people split a single unit (maintenance fees of about $1000), and use those units to exchange into 2 separate weeks in units that would rent for $4-5000 per week. 

Others TUGgers absolutely love to use just their deeded weeks, because they love the resort and their units. For example, many TUGgers like to post pictures of the view from their. Many timeshares have units that simply aren't available on the rental market. 

Prior to purchasing a timeshare, I spent about 30-40 nights a year on hotel stays at a cost of about $4000-5000 per year (I stayed in cheap places). I now stay in much, much nicer accommodations that are significantly larger. We have actually spent less than we did previously and have stayed far more nights. What's been really nice is that we've been able to travel with others and have gotten quality time with both sets of grandparents (to our children), several cousins, and some friends. It's also been really nice to be able to cook in these units as eating out gets old really fast to us, and we save money.

Timeshares are NOT for everyone. I think they can provide tremendous value, but it does typically require some upfront money, to buy the contract, a long-term commitment in terms of paying a maintenance fee, and a time investment to learn how to best use it, and a time commitment to use that knowledge and book what you'd like.


----------



## uaremymuse (Jan 6, 2020)

Jan M. said:


> I agree with sue1947. The sad part of both uaremynuse and Carta's posts is that they are basing their opinions on their clearly limited experience and not very good information. Uaremymuse, you may be a finance guy but that doesn't make you knowledgeable about all timeshares. It appears that you are looking for validations of your opinions rather than gaining useful informaiton. I go back to my first line of my post "If you learn and make good choices it makes excellent financial sense." Not all of us made great choices at first but we learned and readjusted our portfolios. I've been very upfront in saying that some of our timeshare purchases that I've made have been pure dumb luck rather than well informed choices. However I learned from from the not smart choices, the smart choices and the dumb luck choices. TUG helped me build on what I learned.
> 
> The first rule of buying a timeshare is that you NEVER purchase a timeshare as a financial investment! In our budgets vacations come under expenses so if you are taking vacations you have expenses. A timeshare is an expense. But it should be an expense that allows you to take vacations at a price you wouldn't otherwise get.
> 
> ...



Although your assumptions about my inquiry are incorrect, I’ll not bother responding in detail. With respect to your numbers, it obviously works to your satisfaction which is all that’s important, which is what I stated in one of my comments. However, I will take exception to one of your statements and that is that vacations are necessarily an expense vice an investment. My vacation club is an investment and in the end pays for all of my weeks of vacations during each and every year because of its ROI. I’ll admit that my club is not for everyone but neither is TS ownership. With my experience, owning a TS was an exhausting and frustrating experience that took up way to much of my time. I also soon discovered that the only ones making out financially are the corporate owners. Who else would pay millions for a condo (52 weeks x the weekly purchase price and annual maintenance cost in Disney or elsewhere unless they just don’t care about the value of a dollar. Would most people pay $1-2 million for a condo that Disney provides? Or even think it’s with that price in any real estate market, regardless of where you live? I like to think that people are smart about their money but in the end it’s all relative isn’t it. Some just have to have that $200 A5 Grade Wagyu rib eye where others are content with a McDonalds burger. In the end, most people care about the cost and it’s a relative factor to everyone based on one’s financial status in life. Even your ownership cost may seem ridiculous to some whereas to others it may seem reasonable or inexpensive. In the end it only matters to you. My initial question was rhetorical in nature. Nothing more, nothing less. I’m happy for everyone who enjoys their TS ownership but it’s clearly not for me and no one, not even you, convinced me that it makes financial sense. There’s just too much availability on the open market and the internet has allowed that transparency to diminish the TS markets intrinsic financial value for me to buy into it. That’s my opinion and I clearly get that you love your TS experience. That’s all that’s important at the end of the day. Thank you for taking the time to provide your thoughtful response for everyone here. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## uaremymuse (Jan 6, 2020)

paxsarah said:


> There were also several people on the “pro” side of the equation who offered practical reasons for owning timeshares. I find it interesting that you’re not accounting for them in this summary.
> 
> I also didn’t see anyone touting a timeshare as a financial investment, but if one purchases them on the resale market for a pittance, why would that even come into the conversation? (I bought my most recent timeshare and my most recent road bike both used from eBay. The bicycle actually cost a few hundred dollars more than the timeshare, and it would seem silly if I bought it as an investment. I bought it to use it, just like the timeshare.)



I guess you didn’t read what I said or didn’t understand it. The words, “simply enjoyable” covered those people. 
As for the bike analogy, you’re exactly right. People buy things that they find enjoyable regardless of the cost, which is really what this discussion boils down to. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## LannyPC (Jan 6, 2020)

uaremymuse said:


> Can anyone explain to me how it makes financial sense to own a time share?



A timeshare sales person could.


----------



## uaremymuse (Jan 6, 2020)

LannyPC said:


> A timeshare sales person could.



Touché 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Chrispee (Jan 6, 2020)

Ok, I'll bite.  Timesharing makes financial sense to me because I bought resale and predominantly vacation in the Hawaiian islands where hotel/condo rentals are expensive.  I have Marriott and VSE trading units that allow my family to stay in excellent quality Hawaiian resorts at a fraction of what I was paying in the past through VRBO, AirBNB, Redweek, and Priceline.


----------



## Jan M. (Jan 6, 2020)

uaremymuse said:


> Although your assumptions about my inquiry are incorrect, I’ll not bother responding in detail. With respect to your numbers, it obviously works to your satisfaction which is all that’s important, which is what I stated in one of my comments. However, I will take exception to one of your statements and that is that vacations are necessarily an expense vice an investment. My vacation club is an investment and in the end pays for all of my weeks of vacations during each and every year because of its ROI. I’ll admit that my club is not for everyone but neither is TS ownership. With my experience, owning a TS was an exhausting and frustrating experience that took up way to much of my time. I also soon discovered that the only ones making out financially are the corporate owners. Who else would pay millions for a condo (52 weeks x the weekly purchase price and annual maintenance cost in Disney or elsewhere unless they just don’t care about the value of a dollar. Would most people pay $1-2 million for a condo that Disney provides? Or even think it’s with that price in any real estate market, regardless of where you live? I like to think that people are smart about their money but in the end it’s all relative isn’t it. Some just have to have that $200 A5 Grade Wagyu rib eye where others are content with a McDonalds burger. In the end, most people care about the cost and it’s a relative factor to everyone based on one’s financial status in life. Even your ownership cost may seem ridiculous to some whereas to others it may seem reasonable or inexpensive. In the end it only matters to you. My initial question was rhetorical in nature. Nothing more, nothing less. I’m happy for everyone who enjoys their TS ownership but it’s clearly not for me and no one, not even you, convinced me that it makes financial sense. There’s just too much availability on the open market and the internet has allowed that transparency to diminish the TS markets intrinsic financial value for me to buy into it. That’s my opinion and I clearly get that you love your TS experience. That’s all that’s important at the end of the day. Thank you for taking the time to provide your thoughtful response for everyone here.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



Owing a timeshare isn't right for some people that's for sure!

I've read too many posts both here on TUG and in the Wyndham Facebook groups not to understand and feel bad for the people who bought developer and learned a very expensive lesson. And I can add our names to the list. I've made the valid excuse that when we first bought there wasn't the amount of information available online back then and there were still far too many pitfalls with buying resale for us to have been willing to risk it with how little we knew. However there is so much information out there now that it is surprising how often people are still doing it and regretting it.

As a financial person you will appreciate this. Yesterday on one of the Wyndham Facebook groups I'm in a woman posted about how they've paid for months but what they owe has gone down very little. From her picture she appeared to be younger, no more than in her 30's. Apparently she has very little concept of financing and interest rates. Even after the first couple of people responded she still posted a comment that she planned to call Wyndham and have them account for how Wyndham is ripping them off. Her post has now been deleted. I'd guess the comments got out of hand and one or more people called her an idiot. It seemed to be heading that way less than an hour into her post. So many people have posted under all the different  forums here on TUG that no one should ever buy at timeshare at a higher interest rate. Some feel that if you have to use financing at all you shouldn't buy. The exception being if you can put it on a credit card with zero interest and pay it off while you have that zero interest rate.

On the Facebook groups and to a more limited extent on TUG, day after day there are posts from people saying they paid Wyndham $16,000-$22,000 for 84,000-105,000 points and are upset because they've discovered that they don't have nearly enough points to be able to take the fabulous vacations they envisioned when they bought. And  on TUG there are similar posts with the other timeshare companies. Then there are the people who have owned for several years, never used their points, and know nothing about how use the website or about booking stays. In both situations they often they want out because they are just wasting their money.

Seeing all the posts from people in those situations is just sad. It drives home how knowledge is definitely essential when it comes to buying and using timeshares.

Now to come from the completely opposite side of the coin about buying developer. There are people who have purchased developer because doing so gave them daily use benefits at that resort. Those people usually live within a close enough distance to be able to take advantage of that benefit often enough without having to stay at the resort to justify their purchase. Resorts that offer ski lift passes or water park passes and use of the resort facilities are the two most popular ones I've seen.

In case anyone missed this part of what I've said in my responses I want to make sure I add a caution. Even when we were still working we didn't have to put in for vacation time at the beginning of the year and both had some flexibility in setting our own work schedules.. I may make what we've done sound enticing however not everyone has enough vacation time or enough flexibility with their jobs to make being able to use the points the way we did even before retirement an option for them. Timeshares are one of the things people seem not to be particularly realistic about.  That is why salespeople are able to sell timeshares at developer prices. They are selling a dream and we are all vulnerable to getting pulled in by dream.

I do believe that us demonstrating why we've chosen what we have is of benefit to other people who may be reading our posts. Knowing your options is always a good thing.


----------



## uaremymuse (Jan 6, 2020)

Chrispee said:


> Ok, I'll bite. Timesharing makes financial sense to me because I bought resale and predominantly vacation in the Hawaiian islands where hotel/condo rentals are expensive. I have Marriott and VSE trading units that allow my family to stay in excellent quality Hawaiian resorts at a fraction of what I was paying in the past through VRBO, AirBNB, Redweek, and Priceline.



It only has to make sense to the person who buys them so it’s great that yours makes sense to you. But your example is made with certain assumptions, right? For example, the cost for a place in Hawaii depends on the time of year that you want to vacation, if you bought a specific week, points needed, the maintenance fees, II and or RCI fees, aviation and car rental costs depending on the time of year, etc. Some people can travel anytime they wish whereas others are confined to taking vacation when everyone else is vacationing, ie Christmas, etc. So your statement, although reflective of your situation, is made in your vacuum of relativity. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Rolltydr (Jan 6, 2020)

uaremymuse said:


> It only has to make sense to the person who buys them so it’s great that yours makes sense to you. But your example is made with certain assumptions, right? For example, the cost for a place in Hawaii depends on the time of year that you want to vacation, if you bought a specific week, points needed, the maintenance fees, II and or RCI fees, aviation and car rental costs depending on the time of year, etc. Some people can travel anytime they wish whereas others are confined to taking vacation when everyone else is vacationing, ie Christmas, etc. So your statement, although reflective of your situation, is made in your vacuum of relativity.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Ok, I’ve had some sleep and I promise I will be more civil.
Good morning. My main question now is what was the purpose of your initial post? What did you want/expect to get from it? You tell @Chrispee that his/her example ”comes with assumptions”. Doesn’t your initial question also come with assumptions? To me, you are saying that owning a TS doesn’t make financial sense to you. Does anyone disagree? Then, when several very experienced people on this forum explain in detail how it can make financial sense, you basically disregard it by saying something like, well it works for you but that’s only because of your unique situation and priorities. It doesn’t work for me. And, that’s fine that you feel that way. You definitely are not alone in believing that. But, what was the point of your question? Did you truly believe someone could convince you otherwise? Did you simply want to have the conversation to see how many were pro and con?


----------



## Carta (Jan 6, 2020)

Everyone that agrees with timesharing forgets the $20-30 thousand dollars they paid upfront...And then pay MF's on top of that....Not a Bargain...

And no one stays young forever...How about illness, death, etc .....Still gotta pay fees..


----------



## uaremymuse (Jan 6, 2020)

Rolltydr said:


> Ok, I’ve had some sleep and I promise I will be more civil.
> Good morning. My main question now is what was the purpose of your initial post? What did you want/expect to get from it? You tell @Chrispee that his/her example ”comes with assumptions”. Doesn’t your initial question also come with assumptions? To me, you are saying that owning a TS doesn’t make financial sense to you. Does anyone disagree? Then, when several very experienced people on this forum explain in detail how it can make financial sense, you basically disregard it by saying something like, well it works for you but that’s only because of your unique situation and priorities. It doesn’t work for me. And, that’s fine that you feel that way. You definitely are not alone in believing that. But, what was the point of your question? Did you truly believe someone could convince you otherwise? Did you simply want to have the conversation to see how many were pro and con?



Bingo


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Rolltydr (Jan 6, 2020)

Carta said:


> Everyone that agrees with timesharing forgets the $20-30 thousand dollars they paid upfront...And then pay MF's on top of that....Not a Bargain...
> 
> And no one stays young forever...How about illness, death, etc .....Still gotta pay fees..


Are you aware of purchasing resale contract/deeds? Many, if not most, TUGgers purchased resale for a few bucks and many for free. If you do that and only have the mf’s to pay, it is a bargain as long as you use it or rent it out.


----------



## goaliedave (Jan 6, 2020)

Like buying a pair of jeans, there are many styles and stores. Currently staying 3 months in Florida TS for $2000 worth of MF, much cheaper than hotels. Soon i'll be moving to western USA to finish up winter for same cost. TS life is great.

Sent from my SM-A505G using Tapatalk


----------



## sue1947 (Jan 6, 2020)

Carta said:


> Everyone that agrees with timesharing forgets the $20-30 thousand dollars they paid upfront...And then pay MF's on top of that....Not a Bargain...
> 
> And no one stays young forever...How about illness, death, etc .....Still gotta pay fees..



How can you have been a member of tug since 2005 and make a statement like that?   Surely, you would have seen all the posts about buying resale or free?   I purchased resale 5 times plus another for free and the small initial costs have long ago been amortized via savings over motels or renting.   Currently, my travel costs are primarily maintenance fees.   Yes, we know the fees are ongoing, but my costs average $50/night for a whole lot more than I can get elsewhere.  To me, that is a bargain.  Does it cost more than not traveling?  Sure.  But I choose to spend some of my money for travel and I choose to put the work into it to learn how best to use my systems.   The key is learning how to make the most of whatever system you buy into.   A large part of my ability to travel this cheaply is from listening and learning from others.


----------



## bluehende (Jan 6, 2020)

Carta said:


> Everyone that agrees with timesharing forgets the $20-30 thousand dollars they paid upfront...And then pay MF's on top of that....Not a Bargain...
> 
> And no one stays young forever...How about illness, death, etc .....Still gotta pay fees..



my total cost for my two timeshares was about 200 dollars.  You need to change that "everyone".


----------



## paxsarah (Jan 6, 2020)

uaremymuse said:


> Bingo



So then was the meaning behind your original question, "Can anyone explain to me how it makes financial sense *for me* to own a time share?" Because the answer to that is definitely not, not if you've already decided it doesn't work for you. And that's fine. Since we each speak from our own experience, we've explained how it makes financial sense to own a timeshare ourselves, or in some cases how we know it may not make financial sense but we're okay with it. The reasons we say it makes financial sense for us are right for us, and the reasons you say it doesn't make financial sense for you are right for you. Neither are going to be applicable across the board.


----------



## Chrispee (Jan 6, 2020)

uaremymuse said:


> It only has to make sense to the person who buys them so it’s great that yours makes sense to you. But your example is made with certain assumptions, right? For example, the cost for a place in Hawaii depends on the time of year that you want to vacation, if you bought a specific week, points needed, the maintenance fees, II and or RCI fees, aviation and car rental costs depending on the time of year, etc. Some people can travel anytime they wish whereas others are confined to taking vacation when everyone else is vacationing, ie Christmas, etc. So your statement, although reflective of your situation, is made in your vacuum of relativity.



You are correct.  I posted my financial justifications of timeshare ownership as a counterpoint to yours (and others’) timeshare ownership vacuums of reality.

For the benefit of those actually using this thread for research;  I paid $500 or less resale for each of my units (thank you TUG), travel predominantly to Hawaii, and I am indeed bound to the school calendar peak travel times.


----------



## Carta (Jan 6, 2020)

Many folks mention Resale...How about the poor shmuck that paid top dollar and had to pay to get rid of it?...

Everyone claims: I'm paying $200,$400, $600 for the week...And on and on .......Ask yourself this question: How much did I pay upfront originally? And lets not forget MAINTENANCE FEES that constantly rise

Now if u buy timeshares to make money...That's a different animal


----------



## paxsarah (Jan 6, 2020)

Carta said:


> Everyone claims: I'm paying $200,$400, $600 for the week...And on and on .......Ask yourself this question: How much did I pay upfront originally?



Self, how much did I pay upfront originally? Looking back, it was $359, $239, $315, $343, and a whopping $815. I guess I'm a bit embarrassed that it totals out a hair over $2,000. There are a lot of owners around here who've paid much less. Averaged out over my nine years of ownership, though, I can live with it.



Carta said:


> And lets not forget MAINTENANCE FEES that constantly rise



As does basically the cost of everything. The maintenance costs on my home constantly rise, and it would be pretty unrealistic of me to expect the maintenance costs of a timeshare development to stay static over the years.


----------



## Rolltydr (Jan 6, 2020)

Carta said:


> Many folks mention Resale...How about the poor shmuck that paid top dollar and had to pay to get rid of it?...
> 
> Everyone claims: I'm paying $200,$400, $600 for the week...And on and on .......Ask yourself this question: How much did I pay upfront originally? And lets not forget MAINTENANCE FEES that constantly rise
> 
> Now if u buy timeshares to make money...That's a different animal


It is very puzzling to me why someone who hates timeshares so much would spend so much time on a forum about timeshares. Also, you keep saying everyone this and everyone that. The one thing I have learned more than anything else on this forum is that everyone doesn’t agree about timeshares.


----------



## uaremymuse (Jan 6, 2020)

paxsarah said:


> So then was the meaning behind your original question, "Can anyone explain to me how it makes financial sense *for me* to own a time share?" Because the answer to that is definitely not, not if you've already decided it doesn't work for you. And that's fine. Since we each speak from our own experience, we've explained how it makes financial sense to own a timeshare ourselves, or in some cases how we know it may not make financial sense but we're okay with it. The reasons we say it makes financial sense for us are right for us, and the reasons you say it doesn't make financial sense for you are right for you. Neither are going to be applicable across the board.



I agree with you but I’m always ready to be taught something new. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## uaremymuse (Jan 6, 2020)

Chrispee said:


> You are correct. I posted my financial justifications of timeshare ownership as a counterpoint to yours (and others’) timeshare ownership vacuums of reality.
> 
> For the benefit of those actually using this thread for research; I paid $500 or less resale for each of my units (thank you TUG), travel predominantly to Hawaii, and I am indeed bound to the school calendar peak travel times.



And your other fees? Maintenance, RCI? II? Exchange fees if applicable? Time of year to travel? Which TS? Did I miss anything? 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## uaremymuse (Jan 6, 2020)

Rolltydr said:


> It is very puzzling to me why someone who hates timeshares so much would spend so much time on a forum about timeshares. Also, you keep saying everyone this and everyone that. The one thing I have learned more than anything else on this forum is that everyone doesn’t agree about timeshares.



Where did I say I hate TS?
I like to educate myself, don’t you? Perhaps something new has changed in the industry that I know nothing about and my opinion could be swayed, right?
People generalize “all the time.” I’m sorry if that hit a nerve. Thanks for your comment. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## uaremymuse (Jan 6, 2020)

paxsarah said:


> Self, how much did I pay upfront originally? Looking back, it was $359, $239, $315, $343, and a whopping $815. I guess I'm a bit embarrassed that it totals out a hair over $2,000. There are a lot of owners around here who've paid much less. Averaged out over my nine years of ownership, though, I can live with it.
> 
> 
> 
> As does basically the cost of everything. The maintenance costs on my home constantly rise, and it would be pretty unrealistic of me to expect the maintenance costs of a timeshare development to stay static over the years.



Yes, but a house is an investment whereas a TS generally speaking isn’t. Big difference. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Rolltydr (Jan 6, 2020)

uaremymuse said:


> Where did I say I hate TS?
> I like to educate myself, don’t you? Perhaps something new has changed in the industry that I know nothing about and my opinion could be swayed, right?
> People generalize “all the time.” I’m sorry if that hit a nerve. Thanks for your comment.
> 
> ...


That post was a response to @Carta, not you.


----------



## paxsarah (Jan 6, 2020)

uaremymuse said:


> Yes, but a house is an investment whereas a TS generally speaking isn’t. Big difference.



But both have to be maintained. I would expect the maintenance costs of both to rise, regardless of the underlying resale value. The timeshare has to be repaired, heated, cooled, landscaped. You need to keep the water and the cable running. And the costs of all of those things generally rise over time.


----------



## SteelerGal (Jan 6, 2020)

Actually many ppl purchased direct.  I just happen to not be one of them.  I was lucky because a friend suggested I could rent TS instead of buying.  That’s what we did until I learned enough to buy resale.
I will say that all of my resales were at least enjoyed by previous owners for at least 15yrs.


----------



## uaremymuse (Jan 6, 2020)

Rolltydr said:


> That post was a response to @Carta, not you.



My response was to your response to Carta. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## uaremymuse (Jan 6, 2020)

paxsarah said:


> But both have to be maintained. I would expect the maintenance costs of both to rise, regardless of the underlying resale value. The timeshare has to be repaired, heated, cooled, landscaped. You need to keep the water and the cable running. And the costs of all of those things generally rise over time.



True but I’d rather pay maintenance costs on an investment. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## bluehende (Jan 6, 2020)

Carta said:


> Many folks mention Resale...How about the poor shmuck that paid top dollar and had to pay to get rid of it?...
> 
> Everyone claims: I'm paying $200,$400, $600 for the week...And on and on .......Ask yourself this question: How much did I pay upfront originally? And lets not forget MAINTENANCE FEES that constantly rise
> 
> Now if u buy timeshares to make money...That's a different animal


 

Many poor schmucks have made mistakes.  That has no bearing on my decision in timeshares as well as many other things.  If I could have helped them I would have but at this point that is a done deal.


----------



## bluehende (Jan 6, 2020)

uaremymuse said:


> True but I’d rather pay maintenance costs on an investment.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



I would rather have my investments have no maintenance costs.  I have owned my home, an investment property, and a vacation home.  Not one of those came close to the investment quality that the S&P was over the same time frame.  Was owning these a mistake?  Not in my mind because I got value other than the investment value.


----------



## CalGalTraveler (Jan 6, 2020)

@uaremymuse 60% of the time it is a bad use of money if you buy resale and 99% of the time when you buy from developer. Like anything you have to pick what's works and if it doesn't work for you then it's not a fit. Simple. Renting is risky and there are a lot of low quality AirBnBs out there. But we also use renting when it works. It doesn't have to be all or nothing. you are a financial guy, so think portfolio e.g. very selective timeshare, some rent. It's like stock picking...

Here is how it works for us. We travel during peak season in Maui and Oahu and want oceanfront at top resorts. We purchased an EOY Westin OF for $12k resale. These units rent for $5000+ per week during the summer. Three rentals and we have spent $15k+resort fees with nothing to show for it. With owning, we have ROI vs. renting after 3 visits. Even better, we can lockoff the unit and rent half for the cost of MF = Free stay (or small profit) for one week in OF at the Westin, or we can lockoff and get two weeks out of the MF = $1400/week in OF in HI during peak. You can't rent similar unit for anywhere near that price. If the lockoff rents for $3,800 then we are ahead $2,400 per WEEK or saving $4,800 vs. renting those two weeks.

Last summer we had a 3 bedroom penthouse at the Lagoon Tower at Hilton Hawaiian Village over the July 4 holiday. Our cost was about $1000/week. The room rents for $2500/DAY.  We recouped the cost of a TS we purchased with that single trade by 4x vs renting (if we could even find one to rent). Our timeshare that we traded still has resale value but could give it away easily tomorrow and still be way ahead financially.


----------



## Rolltydr (Jan 6, 2020)

uaremymuse said:


> My response was to your response to Carta.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



Bye bye. 


Harry - Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## uaremymuse (Jan 6, 2020)

bluehende said:


> I would rather have my investments have no maintenance costs. I have owned my home, an investment property, and a vacation home. Not one of those came close to the investment quality that the S&P was over the same time frame. Was owning these a mistake? Not in my mind because I got value other than the investment value.



Everyone would love not to have maintenance costs with any investment but I’ve not found too many investments that don’t have it. 

But to your point, there’s maintenance costs even with stock ownership and you can’t put a dollar value on one’s enjoyment, whether with owning a TS or a bike. Enjoy your TSs. Many do. Just not my cup of tea for an investment or for enjoyment purposes as an owner, which I’m no longer thank God. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## uaremymuse (Jan 6, 2020)

CalGalTraveler said:


> @uaremymuse 60% of the time it is a bad use of money if you buy resale and 99% of the time when you buy from developer. Like anything you have to pick what's works and if it doesn't work for you then it's not a fit. Simple. Renting is risky and there are a lot of low quality AirBnBs out there. But we also use renting when it works. It doesn't have to be all or nothing. you are a financial guy, so think portfolio e.g. very selective timeshare, some rent. It's like stock picking...
> 
> Here is how it works for us. We travel during peak season in Maui and Oahu and want oceanfront at top resorts. We purchased an EOY Westin OF for $12k resale. These units rent for $5000+ per week during the summer. Three rentals and we have spent $15k+resort fees with nothing to show for it. With owning, we have ROI vs. renting after 3 visits. Even better, we can lockoff the unit and rent half for the cost of MF = Free stay (or small profit) for one week in OF at the Westin, or we can lockoff and get two weeks out of the MF = $1400/week in OF in HI during peak. You can't rent similar unit for anywhere near that price. If the lockoff rents for $3,800 then we are ahead $2,400 per WEEK or saving $4,800 vs. renting those two weeks.
> 
> Last summer we had a 3 bedroom penthouse at the Lagoon Tower at Hilton Hawaiian Village over the July 4 holiday. Our cost was about $1000/week. The room rents for $2500/DAY. We recouped the cost of a TS we purchased with that single trade by 4x vs renting (if we could even find one to rent). Our timeshare that we traded still has resale value but could give it away easily tomorrow and still be way ahead financially.



If I understand correctly, you own a Westin unit for $12k. How much are the annual maintenance fees? What week do you own and what size is the unit?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## uaremymuse (Jan 6, 2020)

Rolltydr said:


> Bye bye.
> 
> 
> Harry - Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk



Bye bye


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Chrispee (Jan 6, 2020)

uaremymuse said:


> And your other fees? Maintenance, RCI? II? Exchange fees if applicable? Time of year to travel? Which TS? Did I miss anything?



- Maintenance fees: Sheraton Desert Oasis Annual ($1180), Marriott's Shadow Ridge Enclaves EOY ($790), Marriott's Canyon Villas EOY ($750), Marriott's Willow Ridge EOY ($650).
- Each unit gets locked off as I rarely feel the need to deposit a 2br in II to get my desired trade
- Exchange costs $154 and I usually add eplus for $60.  Factor in $50 for II membership and another $40 for the lockoff and hey maybe I've upgraded my unit size for another $60.

Even with my most expensive unit I'm at $1154 for a week, but I've averaged my costs out per night over the past couple of years and it came out to under $140 per night (as I stated in an earlier post).  So, this is how I make timesharing financially viable for my family's personal situation, but I definitely agree with you that it doesn't make financial sense for people in other situations (particularly not buying resale).

I'm interested to hear what you own?


----------



## uaremymuse (Jan 6, 2020)

Chrispee said:


> - Maintenance fees: Sheraton Desert Oasis Annual ($1180), Marriott's Shadow Ridge Enclaves EOY ($790), Marriott's Canyon Villas EOY ($750), Marriott's Willow Ridge EOY ($650).
> - Each unit gets locked off as I rarely feel the need to deposit a 2br in II to get my desired trade
> - Exchange costs $154 and I usually add eplus for $60. Factor in $50 for II membership and another $40 for the lockoff and hey maybe I've upgraded my unit size for another $60.
> 
> ...



Sounds like it’s working for you. I spoke to my prior ownership in an earlier post if you care to look for it. I’ve always been able to rent a time share from an owner that’s less expensive than owning at the location of the rental, local hotels and other open market rentals. Thank you for your reply. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## heathpack (Jan 6, 2020)

uaremymuse said:


> And your other fees? Maintenance, RCI? II? Exchange fees if applicable? Time of year to travel? Which TS? Did I miss anything?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



Lol you are amusing.  You think you're smarter than everyone else in the room?  Do you honestly believe that everyone else is delusional and can't run numbers?

Here's my example:  
SBP 1BR gold plus week free on TUG
MF $615
II membership $100/yr
Exchange fee including eplus and unit size upgrade ~$400
Total costs ~$1100
When I'm done with this timeshare, Sheraton will take it back as a deedback.

Exchanged for a week in Sedona in a 2BR unit over Thanksgiving 2020.  The EXACT check in date and location relative to trailheads that I want.

The cheapest VRBO for a 2BR or larger place with a kitchen and washer/dryer in a similar (but not as good location), same check in date, including taxes and fees ~$2400.


Timeshares are my favorite travel hack.  They are definitely a cost effective means of travel.


----------



## CalGalTraveler (Jan 6, 2020)

Westin Maui 2 Bedroom Oceanfront Lockoff (1 side studio OF and 1 side 1 Bdrm OF) Platinum 1- 50 weeks (we use during peak summer but similarly expensive rent during whale season). MF + dues approx $2750 EOY so approx $1400/year. A sample of Redweek rental listings below:


----------



## uaremymuse (Jan 6, 2020)

heathpack said:


> Lol you are amusing. You think you're smarter than everyone else in the room? Do you honestly believe that everyone else is delusional and can't run numbers?
> 
> Here's my example:
> SBP 1BR gold plus week free on TUG
> ...



No, to your question. Of course not. My original question was sincere. Why would I think I’m smarter than others who actually own TSs when I obviously don’t? That’s a silly statement. 

It’s wonderful that owning works for you and others. It never worked for me in any sense. Maybe I’m the one who is lacking in TS ownership smarts which is why I’ll stick with my real estate vacation investment membership where in the end I don’t paying anything for my vacations to places all over the world and in multi million dollar lovely single family homes in premier resorts that come with personal concierge service, daily maid service, on call car service, etc. Of course it’s not for everyone because of the initial investment but if you can afford the investment, well, it’s a great way to travel and enjoy life with zero costs. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## CalGalTraveler (Jan 6, 2020)

I just checked the Marriott site. Cannot find a 2 bedroom but the 1 bedroom lockoff of the* Ocean View* (not OF) is $683 - $687/night plus resort fees (none for owners) plus parking (free for owners) so that's $4571 - $4810 just for a 1 bedroom without oceanfront! Compare that to $2750 for MF for a 2 bdrm OF that can be locked off with half rented = free stay; or stay for 2 weeks at $1400/week.  This unit will also be easy to dispose of someday as these are highly desirable units. So if we lose half of our initial capital, we have only lost $6k over 20 - 30 years.  Worst case $12k, so what? This won't bankrupt us and we can keep staying for free or rent out until it is time to give away. 

*Unlike developer purchases, the beauty of resale is you cannot lose money you haven't spent.*


----------



## heathpack (Jan 6, 2020)

uaremymuse said:


> No, to your question. Of course not. My original question was sincere. Why would I think I’m smarter than others who actually own TSs when I obviously don’t? That’s a silly statement.
> 
> It’s wonderful that owning works for you and others. It never worked for me in any sense. Maybe I’m the one who is lacking in TS ownership smarts which is why I’ll stick with my real estate vacation investment membership where in the end I don’t paying anything for my vacations to places all over the world and in multi million dollar lovely single family homes in premier resorts that come with personal concierge service, daily maid service, on call car service, etc. Of course it’s not for everyone because of the initial investment but if you can afford the investment, well, it’s a great way to travel and enjoy life with zero costs.
> 
> ...


 
Ha, it’s silly for me to point out that you think you’re smarter than the TS owners?  Really?  When people reply to your posts telling you TS are cost effective and you “remind” people to add in all the associated fees and booking costs?  As if you’re smart enough to be aware of those things but the rest of us are delusional.

Or perhaps.  What you want is for someone to ask you about your real estate investment membership opportunity?  The thing that you know about that the rest of us don’t?  The thing that will allow us to stay in multimillion dollar homes at zero cost...


----------



## Iggyearl (Jan 6, 2020)

uaremymuse said:


> but if you can afford the investment, well, it’s a great way to travel and enjoy life with zero costs.


WTF??  You are on a timeshare USERS sight pitching a product that you think is better.  And, you use the word "investment."  And the term "zero costs."  Please, please, please tell us about this fantastic program.  All the people on Tug would appreciate it.


----------



## CalGalTraveler (Jan 6, 2020)

uaremymuse said:


> It’s wonderful that owning works for you and others. It never worked for me in any sense. Maybe I’m the one who is lacking in TS ownership smarts which is why I’ll stick with my real estate vacation investment membership where in the end I don’t paying anything for my vacations to places all over the world and in multi million dollar lovely single family homes in premier resorts that come with personal concierge service, daily maid service, on call car service, etc. Of course it’s not for everyone because of the initial investment but if you can afford the investment, well, it’s a great way to travel and enjoy life with zero costs.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk




What club are you referring to? I am skeptical.


----------



## heathpack (Jan 6, 2020)

CalGalTraveler said:


> What club are you referring to? I am skeptical.



<cue painful sales pitch from the guy too smart for timeshares>


----------



## uaremymuse (Jan 6, 2020)

heathpack said:


> Ha, it’s silly for me to point out that you think you’re smarter than the TS owners? Really? When people reply to your posts telling you TS are cost effective and you “remind” people to add in all the associated fees and booking costs? As if you’re smart enough to be aware of those things but the rest of us are delusional.
> 
> Or perhaps. What you want is for someone to ask you about your real estate investment membership opportunity? The thing that you know about that the rest of us don’t? The thing that will allow us to stay in multimillion dollar homes at zero cost...



It’s become obvious by your questions and statements that you’re looking to engage in something that doesn’t interest me in the least. Find someone else to sell your newspapers to as I have no interest. I’ve enjoyed what others have shared. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## uaremymuse (Jan 6, 2020)

CalGalTraveler said:


> What club are you referring to? I am skeptical.



Sorry, but I’m not licensed to sell investments nor do I recommend them because of potential liability issues. I’m sure you can find it with your friend google. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## uaremymuse (Jan 6, 2020)

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## uaremymuse (Jan 6, 2020)

Sorry, but I’m not licensed to sell investments nor do I recommend them because of potential liability issues. I’m sure you can find it with your friend google. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## uaremymuse (Jan 6, 2020)

Iggyearl said:


> WTF?? You are on a timeshare USERS sight pitching a product that you think is better. And, you use the word "investment." And the term "zero costs." Please, please, please tell us about this fantastic program. All the people on Tug would appreciate it.




Sorry, but I’m not licensed to sell investments nor do I recommend them because of potential liability issues. I’m sure you can find it with your friend google. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## paxsarah (Jan 6, 2020)

Oh, so it _is_ an investment.


----------



## CalGalTraveler (Jan 6, 2020)

Too good to be true.  IMO these "clubs" usually demand a large up-front investment of $20k or more and when you quit, you get nothing back. Worse than a timeshare because we still can get some money back for all of our properties.


----------



## Iggyearl (Jan 6, 2020)

uaremymuse said:


> Sorry, but I’m not licensed to sell investments nor do I recommend them because of potential liability issues. I’m sure you can find it with your friend google.


I am not asking you to sell me an "investment."  I am asking for the name of the product that you so highly value.  Certainly you don't mind sharing good news.  I don't think there is any potential liability in dropping a name.


----------



## easyrider (Jan 6, 2020)

uaremymuse said:


> Can anyone explain to me how it makes financial sense to own a time share?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



It depends on your plans. If you plan to stay at opulent resorts frequently, it makes sense financially to own resale timeshares because you would obviously spend less owning versus renting. That being said there are many factors a person needs to consider before getting involved with timeshares, imo. After reading all of the posts I kind of think your comfort level would be non-committed renting versus a committed ownership and there is nothing wrong with either scenario. I actually do both.

Bill


----------



## cman (Jan 6, 2020)

Aside from the personal attacks on OP, this has been an informative thread. What I've learned is that some people believe that their particular needs are best met by renting, and the needs of others are best met by owning. People on both sides of the discussion appear to agree with this, but the discussion is taking a downward spiral. Watching two factions that are in agreement continue down this road is an interesting observation of human behavior. Please continue, curious to see how this ends.


----------



## uaremymuse (Jan 6, 2020)

easyrider said:


> It depends on your plans. If you plan to stay at opulent resorts frequently, it makes sense financially to own resale timeshares because you would obviously spend less owning versus renting. That being said there are many factors a person needs to consider before getting involved with timeshares, imo. After reading all of the posts I kind of think your comfort level would be non-committed renting versus a committed ownership and there is nothing wrong with either scenario. I actually do both.
> 
> Bill



Thank you for your thoughtful note. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## uaremymuse (Jan 6, 2020)

cman said:


> Aside from the personal attacks on OP, this has been an informative thread. What I've learned is that some people believe that their particular needs are best met by renting, and the needs of others are best met by owning. People on both sides of the discussion appear to agree with this, but the discussion is taking a downward spiral. Watching two factions that are in agreement continue down this road is an interesting observation of human behavior. Please continue, curious to see how this ends.



I agree. It’s a shame that some, a very few, would prefer to turn an otherwise interesting discussion into something else and I won’t have any part of it. They’ll have to sell their Newspaper elsewhere because I’m not buying. Thank you for your inciteful comment.


----------



## Chrispee (Jan 6, 2020)

uaremymuse said:


> Thank you for your inciteful comment.



I thought cman’s comment was one of the more cordial ones.


----------



## Jan M. (Jan 6, 2020)

Carta said:


> Everyone that agrees with timesharing forgets the $20-30 thousand dollars they paid upfront...And then pay MF's on top of that....Not a Bargain...
> 
> And no one stays young forever...How about illness, death, etc .....Still gotta pay fees..



Not everyone pays big bucks for their developer purchased timeshares. There are plenty of people only have resale and others a mixture of resale and developer.

I've seen a number of people post on TUG that not because they were conned but knowingly paid $5,000-$14,000 to buy from a developer just to have the day use privileges they get from owning developer because the resort is within 30 minutes-2 hours driving distance. In their posts people have mentioned resorts in skiing areas. They get ski lift passes at no charge because they own and how much those lift passes would otherwise cost for their entire family. They love to ski and make good use of what owning at that resort gets them. They also get use of the resort all the resort facilities, the lounge with a nice seating area and fireplace, the on property restaurant, lockers, etc. The are a number of people who bought at Wyndham Glacier Canyon, just a small number of points, to be able to come use the 4 indoor and 4 outdoor water parks for the day.  On on TUG and a Wyndham Facebook group I belong to I've seen people posting that they get 8 wristbands each time which means they are able to bring family or friends with them and they go multiple times a year. We've stayed at Wyndham Glacier Canyon and the resort has two very nice lounge seating areas and the indoor water parks have locker rooms.

You must have missed this part of my post.  And I'm not by far the only person who found great deals.

"We have two 122,000 point weeks at Grandview Las Vegas with 2020 maintenance fees of $835. No increase from 2019. Btw I got these weeks on TUG. On one the other person paid the closing costs and transfer fee. We only paid the RCI fee of $98 to have it transferred to our RCI points account. For the second 122,000 point week I paid the closing costs of $215, the reosrt transfer fee of $250 and the $98 RCI fee. *That makes our total purchase cost for the two 122,000 point weeks $661.* "  And our maintenance fees for the number of points we get per year are about the best you can find.

For some people owning a timeshare{s} has allowed them to vacation in ways or to an extent they would never have dreamed they'd be able to do. For other people owning a timeshare was a huge financial mistake, a nightmare, and they never made any or good use of what they owned.


----------



## jabberwocky (Jan 7, 2020)

I wish I had the last 15 minutes of my life back with this thread...


----------



## Jan M. (Jan 7, 2020)

CalGalTraveler said:


> Too good to be true.  IMO these "clubs" usually demand a large up-front investment of $20k or more and when you quit, you get nothing back. Worse than a timeshare because we still can get some money back for all of our properties.



We've been to several of these vacation club presentations. It has been about 3 or 4 years since we've been to one and the prices at that time were $4500-$6500 to join. The prices kept going down the longer we resisted. I don't remember if that was for a limited number of years membership or a lifetime membership. At one presentation I remember telling my husband that a lifetime membership was a joke because I didn't believe they would be around even for the remainder of our dog's lifetime and she has since passed. I've gotten the salespeople to log in on their booking sites and let me browse what is available. What I saw every time was the equivalent of the Last Call stuff on RCI, then some "meh" stuff, resorts and prices, that were further out and there was a little bit of better stuff that was priced higher and not cheap.

Other people may be happy with what they get with their vacation club and it may work for them. From what I saw I wasn't interested nor would I recommend one to anyone we called a friend or a friendly acquaintance. It might work for them but I just wouldn't be able to bring myself to recommend one. They would be much better off to join TUG and find stays on Last Minute Rentals. Either through what is offered or putting up their own posts if they wanted something specific.


----------



## easyrider (Jan 7, 2020)

The definition of a timeshare usually signifies one property shared by owners. The definition of a vacation club signifies many properties shared by many club members. If these definitions are correct then I only own vacation clubs. Currently I have some Worldmark the Club, Vacation Internationale and Universal Vacation Club Inc. I'm guessing there are over 200 locations in all three systems combined. 

I had a few timeshares but I doubt that I would ever consider owning another one location timeshare again. Maybe a low cost high value trader that is within driving distance would be a consideration but for me I kind of doubt it.

Bill


----------



## easyrider (Jan 7, 2020)

Double posted.

Bill


----------



## silentg (Jan 7, 2020)

I have to add my two cents here. Most of our timeshare dealings have been Tug related. We have bought sold and rented thru tug marketplace and have had some excellent vacations, especially direct exchanges with other Tug members. We never looked at our timeshares as an investment. It’s more of sharing time relaxing and enjoying vacations or going someplace new or someplace familiar. It’s like having a vacation home but not the worry of maintaining it. You stay for a week then leave. I have found more good in Timeshare vacations than bad.
Silentg


----------



## Jan M. (Jan 7, 2020)

easyrider said:


> The definition of a timeshare usually signifies one property shared by owners. The definition of a vacation club signifies many properties shared by many club members. If these definitions are correct then I only own vacation clubs. Currently I have some Worldmark the Club, Vacation Internationale and Universal Vacation Club Inc. I'm guessing there are over 200 locations in all three systems combined.
> 
> I had a few timeshares but I doubt that I would ever consider owning another one location timeshare again. Maybe a low cost high value trader that is within driving distance would be a consideration but for me I kind of doubt it.
> 
> Bill



The vacation clubs you are talking about and what I and others are talking about aren't the same thing. Haven't you ever been to one of those fly by night operation dinners or rented store front presentations?


----------



## Rolltydr (Jan 7, 2020)

silentg said:


> I have to add my two cents here. Most of our timeshare dealings have been Tug related. We have bought sold and rented thru tug marketplace and have had some excellent vacations, especially direct exchanges with other Tug members. We never looked at our timeshares as an investment. It’s more of sharing time relaxing and enjoying vacations or going someplace new or someplace familiar. It’s like having a vacation home but not the worry of maintaining it. You stay for a week then leave. I have found more good in Timeshare vacations than bad.
> Silentg


Very well said! Agree 100%.


----------



## turkel (Jan 7, 2020)

Funny, I just read this whole thread and the only person who was rude and belligerent was the OP. The word Troll comes to mind.

Tuggers are very patient and kind people.

 I thoroughly enjoy my timeshares and they make perfect financial sense to me. I will be retired in less than a year at the ripe old age of 54 so clearly I am no financial dumb dumb. In my experience when people ask a financial question they tune out the answer and continue as they have been before. Clearly the OP didn’t want to hear anything that was different than his/her current point of view.

Enjoy your investment OP, I will enjoy my timeshares and we both will live happily ever after.........the end.


----------



## andre10056 (Jan 7, 2020)

uaremymuse said:


> Can anyone explain to me how it makes financial sense to own a time share?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



It only makes sense under the following conditions:

1.  You buy a resale (from ebay, redweek, etc.) for next to nothing.  If you buy from a developer/resort sales staff, you will likely have made one of the the worst decisions of your life which will cause you unending anxiety and grief.  You will likely not be able to get rid of it for anything near the value you paid....or you won't be able to sell even if offering it for free....such that you'll pay ever increasing maintenance fees forever.  There's a reason that you read about elderly couples having over time paid $100,000 to someone who "guarantees" to rid them of their timeshare, only to learn that it was a scam.  But just think of the desperation that caused them to seek out this "help".

2.  You buy a resort in a year round high demand area.  Otherwise, there will be so many owners who stop paying their maintenance fees on weeks that are torture to go to (for example, rural Pennsylvania in January or even ice cold Panhandle in Florida in January), your maintenance fees will skyrocket year after year.  If the resort is someplace people want to go January through December (e.g., Fort Myers Beach), non-payers of maintenance fees will be at a minimum and your maintenance fees should stay low.

3.  Your resort, and the week that you own at the resort, has a high trade value with the exchange services.  That way, if you trade it in, you'll have multiple excellent options for a vacation elsewhere.  But if your week at whatever resort has a low trade value (and you can check with rci or ii to get some "feel" for any week's trade value....25 and up is good, 15 or lower is bad at rci), you can forget about ever trading it for anything of value.  Maybe last minute (which means you check December availability starting mid-November), but then you'll have to be able to travel last minute.  And may also mean you have to pay megabucks for plane fares if driving is not an option.

4.  You can easily rent the week at a profit above your maintenance fees if it turns out you can't travel to your fixed week or the floating week you reserved for that year.  But even that usually requires AT LEAST two months advance listing on redweek, Airbnb, etc.  And will cause you a ton of work.  Otherwise, you can list it "last minute" on TUG but your rent rate will have to be rock bottom and, even then, you will likely be unsuccessful.

5.  The resort and week you own at that resort is not generally available at a lower cost via websites like redweek or myresortnetwork or even Airbnb.  If you can't rent it (as a renter) cheaply when you may want to go, that's a checkmark in favor of becoming an owner.  But if your resort has ample rental listings throughout the year at competitive rental rates (check out Holiday Inn Vacations Club at Orange Beach (any one of the four villages) on redweek, for example), timeshare ownership truly makes zero sense.

6.  Some people will argue that one of the greatest benefits of owning timeshares is that you can become a member of an exchange service and  will, thereby, have access to those services' last minute rental specials (for example, rci calls it "last call" vacations).  And those offers are sometimes pretty good.  But I see nothing in either the RCI or Interval International websites that says you have to have identified your timeshare ownership with them.  So perhaps you can just pay your $89 per year for exchange service membership and take advantage of whatever lower cost rental options they offer (even far off into the future and not just "last call" opportunities).

On the plus side for timeshares in general, I prefer to rent from a professional lodging establishment rather than from some individual.  Professional lodging establishments know about things like bedbugs (more accurately, how to check for them and how to exterminate them) while Joe Shmoe Airbnb Owner possibly will not.  So...that's a big benefit of hotels and timeshares.

There's a reason that bedbugs, nearly extinct some few years ago, have staged a dramatic comeback and I wouldn't be surprised if the reason was Airbnb.

So, in my opinion and in summary, the answer of whether or not you should buy, rent, or have nothing to do with a timeshare is....drumroll...it depends.


----------



## CalGalTraveler (Jan 7, 2020)

@andre10056 Nice analysis. I would offer the following:

1) Some highly prized properties such as hotel branded Oceanfront Maui, Oahu, Ski season, and NYC (billionaires row) can resale for $15k+. Some for as much as 50k or more during peak weeks.. However that's a fraction of resale. Location, Location, Location rules in these cases. In all cases the MF cost of the unit is much less than renting and there is high demand.

2) Maui and Oahu fits this perfectly. Year round weather. NYC surprisingly is almost year round with people wanting to visit during all times of year, including frigid Thanksgiving and New Years celebrations.

...

6) You cannot join these services without identifying the timeshare you own to belong to these services. They will check with the HOA/Developer and list your specific unit in the exchange because they want to know what you could potentially exchange. However, if you sell your unit, you can continue to use if you don't notify them that you sold.


----------



## easyrider (Jan 7, 2020)

Jan M. said:


> The vacation clubs you are talking about and what I and others are talking about aren't the same thing. Haven't you ever been to one of those fly by night operation dinners or rented store front presentations?



Yes, I have been pitched at the exit of timeshare presentations these wonderful deals that include airfare, cruises, villas and other amazing benefits. I politely decline unless they are having a problem understanding no no no.

The best closing line was " most intelligent people see how this product will work for them" . I asked how many people ? " One out of three" was the answer. I reached out and shook his hand and watched as his eyes got big as he thought we were in. I said "congratulations,............ you are one person closer to three". 

Bill


----------



## pianodinosaur (Jan 7, 2020)

I perceive timeshare ownership as a luxury rather than as an investment.  I love to travel with family and friends.  Timesharing is fun.


----------



## Rolltydr (Jan 7, 2020)

pianodinosaur said:


> I perceive timeshare ownership as a luxury rather than as an investment.  I love to travel with family and friends.  Timesharing is fun.


I'm probably saying the same thing, just a little differently.  For me, it isn't a financial investment, it is a health and happiness investment.


----------



## BarbmC (Jan 7, 2020)

I knew financially it was not a good investment.  But it was an investment for family vacations - which are awesome. I bought to bait my kids to travel with me.


----------



## uaremymuse (Jan 7, 2020)

andre10056 said:


> It only makes sense under the following conditions:
> 
> 1. You buy a resale (from ebay, redweek, etc.) for next to nothing. If you buy from a developer/resort sales staff, you will likely have made one of the the worst decisions of your life which will cause you unending anxiety and grief. You will likely not be able to get rid of it for anything near the value you paid....or you won't be able to sell even if offering it for free....such that you'll pay ever increasing maintenance fees forever. There's a reason that you read about elderly couples having over time paid $100,000 to someone who "guarantees" to rid them of their timeshare, only to learn that it was a scam. But just think of the desperation that caused them to seek out this "help".
> 
> ...



Very good explanation. Based on your theories about ownership, would you hazard a guess on the best time of year it would be to own weeks in Las Vegas, like at Polo Towers, which is right on the Strip?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## CalGalTraveler (Jan 7, 2020)

Can you name anything fun that is a good investment compared to stocks? 

Boat? No.
RV? No
Vacations? Nope.
Second home? No High capital, money pit.
Cars? nope.

You can't enjoy family time or have fun with your stocks. So pick what you enjoy lest you sit at home and do nothing.


----------



## dagger1 (Jan 7, 2020)

artringwald said:


> Because timeshares can be difficult to rent, sell, or even give away, you shouldn't buy one unless you're sure your financial future will allow you to travel and use it for many years to come. Having said that, we bought 3 weeks in Kauai. It costs us about $260/night for a 2 bedroom, ocean front unit. Booking at the same property through Expedia would cost over $500/night and would only be partial ocean view.





Chrispee said:


> Ok, I'll bite.  Timesharing makes financial sense to me because I bought resale and predominantly vacation in the Hawaiian islands where hotel/condo rentals are expensive.  I have Marriott and VSE trading units that allow my family to stay in excellent quality Hawaiian resorts at a fraction of what I was paying in the past through VRBO, AirBNB, Redweek, and Priceline.


Ditto.


----------



## dagger1 (Jan 7, 2020)

Carta said:


> Everyone that agrees with timesharing forgets the $20-30 thousand dollars they paid upfront...And then pay MF's on top of that....Not a Bargain...
> 
> And no one stays young forever...How about illness, death, etc .....Still gotta pay fees..


Many bought resale at 75%-99% discounts to the number quoted above...


----------



## dagger1 (Jan 7, 2020)

uaremymuse said:


> Yes, but a house is an investment whereas a TS generally speaking isn’t. Big difference.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


People have lost fortunes buying real estate.  Resale TS purchasers usually lose very little and stay in 2BR resort condos instead of hotel rooms.


----------



## andre10056 (Jan 8, 2020)

uaremymuse said:


> Very good explanation. Based on your theories about ownership, would you hazard a guess on the best time of year it would be to own weeks in Las Vegas, like at Polo Towers, which is right on the Strip?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



Hello uaremymuse.

First of all, I should state that I know little about Las Vegas.  I had the opportunity to visit Las Vegas when I was stationed at Marine Corps base Twentynine Palms, California but never did so.  So, as a result, I never learned whether people go there in droves year round, or whether there are significant down times throughout the year.

I suspect, from looking at the weather, that there are times when Las Vegas gets REAL slow (scroll down until you see the annual graph):









						The lakes, NV Monthly Weather Forecast - weather.com
					

Weather.com brings you the most accurate monthly weather forecast for The lakes, NV with average/record and high/low temperatures, precipitation and more.




					weather.com
				




I'm not sure I'd ever want to be in Las Vegas during the summer unless I were a compulsive gambler who stayed indoors all day and all night.  But if I wanted to hit the Polo Towers rooftop pool, or wanted to play golf or tennis, or just generally wanted to do anything outdoors, Las Vegas would likely not be for me.

My concern would, therefore, be #2 from my above post.  If people may have been sold summertime timeshares (let's assume that their purchase may have been via a resort presentation during the spring), and thereafter realized that summertime Las Vegas may not be for them, either, they may simply stop paying their maintenance fees.  If the delinquency rate is high enough,  such that the resort won't be collecting all the maintenance fees they need to meet their budget, guess who ends up paying the bills: the paying timeshare owners.  When the maintenance fees get raised as a result, that pushes even more people into "disgruntlement" (is that a word?) who, in turn, stop paying THEIR maintenance fees.  Leading to yet another sizable maintenance fee increase......

In fact, the winter wouldn't be the best time to visit in terms of weather, either.  50s would not allow me to use that rooftop pool.  And fall is kind of a dead travel season everywhere in the continental US, so that's also not too attractive.  All in all, I can envision only springtime Las Vegas travelers happily paying for their timeshare but, unfortunately, they may have to ultimately pay megabucks for that privilege as they subsidize the non-payers.

So that's my initial impression but let's go to actual prospective resale purchase opportunities.  From redweek:


*
*WEEK (SEASON)USETYPEUNIT VIEWBEDS/BATHSSLEEPS*REDWEEK VERIFIED **$500 * $1,14512AnnualDeedVaries2 26VIEW POSTING*REDWEEK VERIFIED **$700 * $855FloatingEven YearsDeedVaries1 14VIEW POSTING*REDWEEK VERIFIED **$1,200 * $1,15535AnnualDeedVaries2 26VIEW POSTING*REDWEEK VERIFIED **$3,000 * $1,15252AnnualDeedVaries2 26VIEW POSTING

Right off the bat, I notice that the 2 BR maintenance fees are quite high.  Now I've never been to the resort, maybe it's ultra luxurious, but if not $1150 or so is a HIGH annual maintenance fee.

Moreover, redweek also has rental listings and it's obvious that the owners just want to barely get their maintenance fees back.  If that's the case, I'd rather rent than buy.  Moreover, I'm sure that some, if not all, would be very negotiable to be able to get even a percentage of their maintenance fees back.

On ebay, there's a week 19 1 bedroom (it says $772 annual maintenance fee) being auctioned off right now with a 1 dollar minimum and zero bidders thus far.  So, again, why on earth would anyone buy from the resort?  There's clearly little, if any, demand for even resales at a dollar bill.

Last, I checked Interval International for Polo Towers, Las Vegas. II doesn't let you see what the trade value for a resort might be (at least, so it seemed to me).  However, I checked what was available in II's inventory for "getaways" to the Polo Towers.  All I saw were studios and 1 bedrooms but, significantly, no matter what month it may have been, the rate of rent for a week was less than the maintenance fee for that week! Amazing!  I checked March, June, and December for a 1 BR at Polo Towers and the rates of rent were about $700 for March, $650 for June, and $595 for December.  So who needs to buy and pay $772 as an owner?

But, again, those were just 1 BRs and studios.  Maybe you'd prefer a 2 BR and would be willing to throw caution to the winds about possible future maintenance fee increases.  Then I suggest you negotiate with the $500 week 12 guy (or gal) listed on redweek...or just wait till a 2 BR is listed on ebay.


----------



## uaremymuse (Jan 8, 2020)

dagger1 said:


> People have lost fortunes buying real estate. Resale TS purchasers usually lose very little and stay in 2BR resort condos instead of hotel rooms.



In the strictest financial sense, TSs do not fall into the category of being an investment. If they were, CFRs would recommend them to clients for holding in their retirement portfolios and I’ve yet to meet anyone who buys them as an investment. There are gazillions who lose money on TSs. Just google TS as an investment and you’ll find pages and pages of very sad stories. Regardless, there are plenty of people who enjoy owning their TS and each case is as individual as the next but the reasons for ownership are rarely if ever stated because it’s an investment. It’s because the owner enjoys it for personal reasons, like you, and they either justify the cost based on hotels or other rentals or they simply could care less about its cost. In other words, money isn’t at issue. They have their use, just as you’ve stated. Thank you for your comment. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## uaremymuse (Jan 8, 2020)

andre10056 said:


> Hello uaremymuse.
> 
> First of all, I should state that I know little about Las Vegas. I had the opportunity to visit Las Vegas when I was stationed at Marine Corps base Twentynine Palms, California but never did so. So, as a result, I never learned whether people go there in droves year round, or whether there are significant down times throughout the year.
> 
> ...



As a former 2 BR Lock-off PT owner in the Marriott renovated tower (very nice units) I can corroborate your analysis. I got my 2 weeks, (Christmas and New Years) for free and they still were not worth the MFs to keep them and for very the reasons that you stated. I enjoyed going to Vegas for many years but I could have easily paid less to stay in just as nice of a place elsewhere without the headaches of TS ownership. When I tired of going, I was never able to rent them, ever. Why? Because PT rents the vacant units at way below cost and their owner’s MFs. And depositing them with II was equally ridiculous. My story is one story only. There are many others who love their TSs and all that matters is their happiness. Thank you for your comment. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## CPNY (Jan 8, 2020)

turkel said:


> Funny, I just read this whole thread and the only person who was rude and belligerent was the OP. The word Troll comes to mind.
> 
> Tuggers are very patient and kind people.
> 
> ...


Right? I just rented points and covered my maint fees, left over points and booked 3 separate trips. Spring break just opened up at my resort and I booked it with airfare under 400RT!! Free trips lol


----------



## CPNY (Jan 8, 2020)

booking a one bedroom oceanfront at the Westin in Maui. The maint fee on the star options needed with SVV ownership is around 1600. The retail value is 5500 for the same period of time ive booked. Makes financial sense to me. Now buying developer doesn’t make financial sense but owning in certain systems can make financial sense in terms of travel. No one buys a timeshare as an investment. You buy a timeshare to travel and enjoy a resort/home feeling.


----------



## DavidnRobin (Jan 8, 2020)

Gazillions?
That’s a lot!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## CalGalTraveler (Jan 8, 2020)

@uaremymuse  You still have not answered my question:

Can you name anything FUN that is a good financial investment compared to stocks?

Pick your poison... *enjoying life costs money. *You work hard, and save so you can enjoy the fruits of your hard work. You can't take it with you...

Re: Polo Towers. I would not buy this.  Vegas is over built with timeshares (supply/demand). We own HGV in Vegas but use the HGVC points to arbitrage into expensive Hawaii and NYC timeshares.  This way we pay $985 to get a week in Hawaii or NYC renting for $4000 or more. This is how a TS makes financial sense.

*Don't buy in Vegas to stay in Vegas*


----------



## dagger1 (Jan 8, 2020)

uaremymuse said:


> In the strictest financial sense, TSs do not fall into the category of being an investment. If they were, CFRs would recommend them to clients for holding in their retirement portfolios and I’ve yet to meet anyone who buys them as an investment. There are gazillions who lose money on TSs. Just google TS as an investment and you’ll find pages and pages of very sad stories. Regardless, there are plenty of people who enjoy owning their TS and each case is as individual as the next but the reasons for ownership are rarely if ever stated because it’s an investment. It’s because the owner enjoys it for personal reasons, like you, and they either justify the cost based on hotels or other rentals or they simply could care less about its cost. In other words, money isn’t at issue. They have their use, just as you’ve stated. Thank you for your comment.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I agree that financial advisors should not recommend adding TS’s to a portfolio who’s purpose is to provide dividends/interest or growth in value in most cases.  But not in all.
But I assumed that by posting on TUG you understood that this is not just a group of knowledgeable TS owners, but also people who love to travel.  This is what we do...
Investments can provide gain and growth.  Investments  can also be used to reduce costs and expenses, allowing our growth investments to grow faster.
TS’s can drastically reduce travel costs.  Meals in for a family of six can save $500-$1000 over a week.  TS owners pay no sales tax, resort fee or parking (in most instances),!saving another $500 for a weeks stay.  No cleaning fees per VRBO or AirBNB.  Some have shuttles from airports, more savings.  Most have W/D’s in the unit, reducing checked luggage costs.  My point is, TS’s can be a great financial investment for the subset of people who travel.  Most of the people on this (wonderful) site would agree they save a lot of money by utilizing TS’s.
Financial advisors who are smart should definitely ask their clients if travel is a big part of their plans.  Most people get their TS education from a high pressure salesperson at the resort.  It would be of great benefit to clients who plan to travel to learn from an advisor how to save a small fortune every trip and how they can then put this money to work in a stock, bond or mutual fund.


----------



## uaremymuse (Jan 8, 2020)

CalGalTraveler said:


> @uaremymuse You still have not answered my question:
> 
> Can you name anything FUN that is a good financial investment compared to stocks?
> 
> ...



I’ll repeat what I have already said in prior posts:

I’m a member of an investment vacation club, and yes, it’s a great deal of fun to be able to travel all over the world. The icing on the cake, to borrow a phrase, is knowing that that my investment will (supposed to) pay for all of my vacations in the end. So yes, its a FUN investment compared to stocks even though I find stock investing fun. Even so, there are other FUN investments that aren’t related to real estate or the stock market but I’m not going to address them on this platform as they are not related to TSs which is what this board is used for; I respect the rules. I also enjoy fishing, playing golf, biking, running, going to the gym, volunteering, etc and they are all FUN activities and they are all good investments in both my physical and mental
health but they have nothing to do with my post. 

Yes, I agree, and as I’ve stated a number of times, PT is not a good TS to own even when they are obtained at zero costs. Regardless of how much I enjoyed using my weeks, I still lost money on those free PT weeks when I ultimately made the decision to give them away. In financial terms, I lost money as do “all” TS owners when they decide to jettison their TS ownership. (This statement does not take into account any potential perceived savings that people have stated with their specific use, ie not having to eat out, laundry, etc which I would never consider since we all have to eat, wash our clothes, etc.). I suspect if anyone ever recovers their initial sunk cost to own, it might be, and I’m guessing, are with owners of the high end Ritz or Four Seasons TSs that are located in a very high demand areas, ski resorts, Carribean, Orlando/Disney, Hawaii, etc. There may be exceptions, because in the end it always depends on supply and demand metrics. Eg, If I have to have a specific week at a specific resort then I might pay the seller more, etc. 

You, and a very few others, seem to want to change my original post into something it’s not. The post stands on its on. There was no agenda, no hidden malicious intent, etc. One person even in a passive/aggressive post suggested that I was trolling the board which is laughable on a number of levels to which I chose not to respond. As I’ve stated many times, there are many who have shared their TS ownership history of enjoyment and that’s wonderful. I can’t question anyone’s happiness or their justifications for ownership. If it works for them it works, period. Some of the responses to my posting were from owners with beautiful family stories which were quite enjoyable to read about. The photos they offered buttressed their wonderful life experiences. 

So please stop with the provocative statements and the vacuous inferences. There’s no justification for either in a civil discussion. I have my opinion as does everyone else and that’s what makes the world go round. As with most discussions, one can enjoy reading 99.99% of the responses, the others are just noise and not worthy of responding to and for a number of reasons. 

And no, and to preempt your follow up, I am not going to tell you the name of the vacation club because I’m not a licensed investment advisor. I learned a long time ago that the world that we live in is one where one finds people who are looking for an early retirement on the back of others with the litigious society in which we live so I’ve chosen not to expose myself in any way, shape or form. I will say this much, and of course you’ll quickly say that I’m being a bit of a snot, if you’re supposed to know about an investment club like the one I’m a member of, you’d be contacted by them. I’ll give you an example. Do you think the same types of companies contact a person who has a Green American Express card as they do with someone who has a Black one? That, whether one likes it or not, is the society in which we live and it’s relative at every economic level during one’s life. 

I’ve probably offered too much in this response and the flame throwers will follow. And that’s ok. I can take the heat from people who really have nothing nice to add to the original post. 

This response is intended for your questions so anyone who chooses to respond to it I won’t bother responding to, especially the ugly ones who really have nothing to add. Ad hominem attacks, like 4 letter words, are simple to use when one has no real value to add to a discussion.

Thank you for your comment. 




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## uaremymuse (Jan 8, 2020)

dagger1 said:


> I agree that financial advisors should not recommend adding TS’s to a portfolio who’s purpose is to provide dividends/interest or growth in value in most cases. But not in all.
> But I assumed that by posting on TUG you understood that this is not just a group of knowledgeable TS owners, but also people who love to travel. This is what we do...
> Investments can provide gain and growth. Investments can also be used to reduce costs and expenses, allowing our growth investments to grow faster.
> TS’s can drastically reduce travel costs. Meals in for a family of six can save $500-$1000 over a week. TS owners pay no sales tax, resort fee or parking (in most instances),!saving another $500 for a weeks stay. No cleaning fees per VRBO or AirBNB. Some have shuttles from airports, more savings. Most have W/D’s in the unit, reducing checked luggage costs. My point is, TS’s can be a great financial investment for the subset of people who travel. Most of the people on this (wonderful) site would agree they save a lot of money by utilizing TS’s.
> Financial advisors who are smart should definitely ask their clients if travel is a big part of their plans. Most people get their TS education from a high pressure salesperson at the resort. It would be of great benefit to clients who plan to travel to learn from an advisor how to save a small fortune every trip and how they can then put this money to work in a stock, bond or mutual fund.



Good point but travel desires from a financial planning perspective is on the expense side of the ledger, just like housing costs, which plays into the investment needs side of the ledger. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## dagger1 (Jan 8, 2020)

uaremymuse said:


> Good point but travel desires from a financial planning perspective is on the expense side of the ledger, just like housing costs, which plays into the investment needs side of the ledger.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


My point is that investments can be utilized  on both sides of the ledger to make the number at the bottom greater.  A wise investment sage said correctly that “It’s not how much you earn, it’s how much you save...”


----------



## uaremymuse (Jan 8, 2020)

dagger1 said:


> My point is that investments can be utilized on both sides of the ledger to make the number at the bottom greater. A wise investment sage said correctly that “It’s not how much you earn, it’s how much you save...”



I disagree with your “sage.” It’s both how much you earn and save, which is what I think you meant to say. Regardless, I liked your post. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## dagger1 (Jan 8, 2020)

uaremymuse said:


> I disagree with your “sage.” It’s both how much you earn and save, which is what I think you meant to say. Regardless, I liked your post.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


No, I meant to say what I said.  And I would agree with your comment above about travel being on the ledger side.  Travel is not an investment.  It’s an expense as you correctly point out, an expense that pays dividends in joy, happiness, fun, education, and maybe even in health.  But you asked about TS’s, not travel.  My point is that used properly by those who are going to travel, they can definitely be an investment and should be mentioned by an astute financial planner to save his client money (sometimes significant amounts of money).  TS’s can be a very useful tool in reducing costs, i.e., an investment.


----------



## uaremymuse (Jan 8, 2020)

dagger1 said:


> No, I meant to say what I said. And I would agree with your comment above about travel being on the ledger side. Travel is not an investment. It’s an expense as you correctly point out, an expense that pays dividends in joy, happiness, fun, education, and maybe even in health. But you asked about TS’s, not travel. My point is that used properly by those who are going to travel, they can definitely be an investment and should be mentioned by an astute financial planner to save his client money (sometimes significant amounts of money). TS’s can be a very useful tool in reducing costs, i.e., an investment.



Then I guess I’d like to understand in practical theory how earning and saving can be mutually exclusive. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## turkel (Jan 8, 2020)

You titled this thread 

Time Share Ownership Advice

You were not looking for advice. Nor were you looking to give advice. Your posts have been argumentative and structured in such a way as we are all supposed to believe your the smartest guy in the room.

Your motivation for starting this thread.......

Definition of the word troll “ a person who intentionally starts a provocative post“ 

Since your really were not looking for advice but to argue your point I believe the definition suits.

Enjoy your investment vacation club.

Most on Tug will continue to enjoy their timeshares. They are an investment in quality of life some a bargain some expensive. Clearly as a timeshare site most who post here enjoy timeshares as owners, former owners, renter, or buyers.


----------



## DavidnRobin (Jan 8, 2020)

Timeshare is one word. Just like [sorry, I should be more kind...]

It my earlier post (one with sunset photo from our OF villa at WKORV) - I gave two concrete examples that were in response to OP.  A question such as that leads to binary thought - and the various aspects of TS ownership are far from binary.

Yes and No.
Depends.
(like that...)

The question should be more along the lines, such as - when is it a good financial decision to own a TS?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## uaremymuse (Jan 8, 2020)

turkel said:


> You titled this thread
> 
> Time Share Ownership Advice
> 
> ...



You’re absolutely incorrect. I was looking for advice based on my prior knowledge. Knowledge is dynamic and not static. And I wanted to know if anyone has found that owning TSs made any sense. And I received a plethora of great answers notwithstanding a very few who are busy trying to second guess the intentions of my post, like you just did. As I’ve said to others like yourself, go sell your newspapers elsewhere as I’m not buying today.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Rolltydr (Jan 8, 2020)

DavidnRobin said:


> Timeshare is one word. Just like Troll...
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I guess this proves he is definitely not the smartest guy in the room. The  @turkel post above is why I added the guy’s name to my ignore list several days ago. He only wanted to argue, not have a conversation with knowledgeable and experienced people who disagree with him.


----------



## uaremymuse (Jan 8, 2020)

DavidnRobin said:


> Timeshare is one word. Just like Troll...
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



Actually, both time share or timeshare is used interchangeably. And troll is a person who makes a deliberately offensive or provocative online post, which thankfully a very few have done on this exchange. 

If you have anything meaningful to add to the discussion please feel free to let us know. How about some beautiful photos of your family trips?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## uaremymuse (Jan 8, 2020)

Rolltydr said:


> I guess this proves he is definitely not the smartest guy in the room. The @turkel post above is why I added the guy’s name to my ignore list several days ago. He only wanted to argue, not have a conversation with knowledgeable and experienced people who disagree with him.



Yes, I agree with your assessment of the poster to whom you responded. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## CalGalTraveler (Jan 8, 2020)

uaremymuse said:


> You, and a very few others, seem to want to change my original post into something it’s not. The post stands on its on. There was no agenda, no hidden malicious intent, etc. One person even in a passive/aggressive post suggested that I was trolling the board which is laughable on a number of levels to which I chose not to respond. As I’ve stated many times, there are many who have shared their TS ownership history of enjoyment and that’s wonderful. I can’t question anyone’s happiness or their justifications for ownership. If it works for them it works, period. Some of the responses to my posting were from owners with beautiful family stories which were quite enjoyable to read about. The photos they offered buttressed their wonderful life experiences.
> 
> So please stop with the provocative statements and the vacuous inferences. There’s no justification for either in a civil discussion. I have my opinion as does everyone else and that’s what makes the world go round. As with most discussions, one can enjoy reading 99.99% of the responses, the others are just noise and not worthy of responding to and for a number of reasons.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



I did not try to change your original post. I (and several others) gave you several solid examples of TSs that are cost effective situations and you completely ignored them. You then went on to rave about your mystery vacation club.

When I google "Vacation Investment Clubs" I get names like Inspirato and fractionals. Are you saying the owners of fractionals like Ritz Aspen who are suing because their investment nose-dived that this was a good investment? We were approached several times by Inspirato. $17k to join (which is is completely lost if you leave) and several thousand a year to use? How is that more cost effective than a resale TS?

If it is an equity investment: I find such real estate investments risky and they lack liquidity. Why lock up $100 - $500k in capital when I can get a TS for $12k in Hawaii? I could buy several resale TS weeks...and put the rest in a safe CD or index fund which are liquid and offer a higher return.

*You cannot lose money you haven't spent. *Tying up $100 to $400k into a fractional "investment club"  is risky vs. risking $12k in a TS is not (which I will probably get back because Maui OF is desirable and can rent for a profit). I am *GUARANTEED* not to lose more than $12k on my resale TS deal. Can you say the same about your $100k+ vacation investment club?

So unless you can offer something more concrete about your mystery "vacation investment club." I call BS.


----------



## DavidnRobin (Jan 8, 2020)

I edited my post above...

When I see too many words written when a few sentences will do - I am colored doubtful.

Why ask a binary question (as the OP) when the response that cannot be binary.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## uaremymuse (Jan 8, 2020)

CalGalTraveler said:


> I did not try to change your original post. I gave you several solid examples of TSs that are cost effective and you completely ignored them. You then went on to rave about your mystery vacation club.
> 
> When I google "Vacation Investment Clubs" I get names like Inspirato and fractionals. Are you saying the owners of fractionals like Ritz Aspen who are suing because their investment nose-dived that this was a good investment? We were approached several times by Inspirato. $17k to join (which is is completely lost if you leave) and several thousand a year to use? How is that more cost effective than a resale TS?
> 
> ...






CalGalTraveler said:


> I did not try to change your original post. I gave you several solid examples of TSs that are cost effective and you completely ignored them. You then went on to applaud your mystery vacation club.
> 
> When I google "Vacation Investment Clubs" I get names like Inspirato and fractionals. Are you saying the owners of fractionals like Ritz Aspen who are suing because their investment nose-dived that this was a good investment? This is TS on steroids. We were approached several times by Inspirato. $17k to join (which is is completely lost if you leave) and several thousand a year to use? Thank you but this is not a good investment.
> 
> So unless you can offer something more concrete. I call BS. There is nothing FUN that is a good investement.



Actually you’ve tried to change my post into something it isn’t, “a critical attack on TS owners.”

So not responding to things you’ve said, like your “solid examples of.....” is construed as ignoring you? Wow is all I can think to say. You’re a bit sensitive I’d say about your expectations in a discussion forum. So if a person writes something, the poster is expected to respond to each and everything that person writes? And if they don’t respond that’s considered ignoring what they have stated or diminishing their comment? Are you serious? How old are you? And your overly dramatic fashion in stating something has no other intention than to inflame, ie “applaud.....”. Does that make you feel good when you do that? What’s your intent with provocative and dramatic statements like that that bear no significance to the discussion?

You also have a tendency to make assumptions about things I’ve said or to infer something that I never said, ie I never said the Ritz was a good investment yet you say that I did. Why? Go back and read what I said and read it very carefully. 

I don’t know anything about the google search that you did and as I said many times, I’m not going make recommendations nor discuss my vacation investment club even though you continue with your tiresome requests. And the fact that you’d tell a perfect stranger that they are speaking BS speaks volumes about the person who says something as ridiculous as that. As I’ve stated before, ad hominem and 4 letter use word attacks are a basis for ignorance. I’m not buying your newspaper. Find someone else to sell it to. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## uaremymuse (Jan 8, 2020)

DavidnRobin said:


> I edited my post above...
> 
> When I see too many words written when a few sentences will do - I am colored doubtful.
> 
> ...



Yea, I agree. It really makes the brain hurt. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## CalGalTraveler (Jan 8, 2020)

uaremymuse said:


> Can anyone explain to me how it makes financial sense to own a time share?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



Boom...This was your initial request. We respectfully gave answers that provided situations that work but you continued to argue and ignore.  You went on to tell us how bad an investment ALL timeshares are because you picked a bad TS - so that must mean all TS are bad. You went on to rave about your mystery vacation investment club.

This is not sensitivity. This is called responding to your post.

I believe you are a rep for such a fund, and cannot by SEC rules solicit investments online and thus don't want to risk revealing your identity by naming the investment club.

Enjoy your superior "vacation investment club" and tell us about your return when you want to liquidate your investment, or when the management of the investment club dramatically increases maint fees when the developer subsidy ends...

I'll enjoy my low cost resale timeshares in Hawaii and continue to put the capital I have saved into stock market index funds, and not tie it up in expensive and risky "vacation investment clubs" .


----------



## Iggyearl (Jan 8, 2020)

Five years on this website, and I never thought I would hit the "ignore" button.  Just did.


----------



## uaremymuse (Jan 8, 2020)

CalGalTraveler said:


> Boom...This was your initial request. We respectfully gave answers that provided situations that work but you continued to argue and ignore. You went on to tell us how bad an investment ALL timeshares are because you picked a bad TS - so that must mean all TS are bad. You went on to rave about your mystery vacation investment club.
> 
> This is not sensitivity. This is called responding to your post.
> 
> ...



I’ve been with them for 12 years and I have already liquidated my first investment. I’m sorry that you haven’t been contacted by this firm but I guess you aren’t on their radar. All the best and please stop messaging me. We have nothing further to discuss. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## uaremymuse (Jan 8, 2020)

Iggyearl said:


> Five years on this website, and I never thought I would hit the "ignore" button. Just did.



I agree. Same here. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## CalGalTraveler (Jan 8, 2020)

uaremymuse said:


> I’ve been with them for 12 years and I have already liquidated my first investment. I’m sorry that you haven’t been contacted by this firm but I guess you aren’t on their radar. All the best and please stop messaging me. We have nothing further to discuss.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



LOL we are contacted by a lot of investment firms...they go straight to the round file.


----------



## uaremymuse (Jan 8, 2020)

CalGalTraveler said:


> LOL we are contacted by a lot of investment firms...they go straight to the round file.



I asked you to please stop messaging me. Now it’s bordering on harassment. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## dagger1 (Jan 8, 2020)

uaremymuse said:


> Then I guess I’d like to understand in practical theory how earning and saving can be mutually exclusive.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Please tell me when I have said they are mutually exclusive?  You have to earn to save.  But many people earn and save nothing.  Nobody earns nothing and saves...
Point being that earning is great:  but saving is the key, the ingredient for investing.  And TS’s are a fabulous savings tool, allowing an astute traveler to spend less, in many cases much less than a non-TS traveler.  Thus increasing net worth, i.e., an investment.


----------



## CPNY (Jan 8, 2020)

I guess timeshares are a lot like boats, not the best “investments” but you get a lot of great use out of them and when you sell both you feel liberated lol.


----------



## uaremymuse (Jan 8, 2020)

CPNY said:


> I guess timeshares are a lot like boats, not the best “investments” but you get a lot of great use out of them and when you sell both you feel liberated lol.



Spoken like a great TS salesmen. Oops, salesperson. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## uaremymuse (Jan 8, 2020)

dagger1 said:


> Please tell me when I have said they are mutually exclusive? You have to earn to save. But many people earn and save nothing. Nobody earns nothing and saves...
> Point being that earning is great: but saving is the key, the ingredient for investing. And TS’s are a fabulous savings tool, allowing an astute traveler to spend less, in many cases much less than a non-TS traveler. Thus increasing net worth, i.e., an investment.



That’s exactly what I said in response to your first post but you disagreed with me and now you’re agreeing with me. Funny. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## CPNY (Jan 8, 2020)

uaremymuse said:


> Spoken like a great TS salesmen. Oops, salesperson.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Facts are facts. If you own in the right system it can work out quite well for you. If you have a lemon with mediocre resorts that no one wants to rent then it’s harsh. I love my choices and use them multiple times a year.


----------



## dagger1 (Jan 8, 2020)

uaremymuse said:


> That’s exactly what I said in response to your first post but you disagreed with me and now you’re agreeing with me. Funny.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I just reread your response to my first post, and nowhere did you agree with me that timeshares can be a great investment for travelers.  But I guess, now that you agree with me and I agree with you and we agree with each other etc. etc,, you have agreed that timeshares can be a great investment for those who travel.  It’s great that you now see the financial wisdom of timesharing for the traveling public.


----------



## uaremymuse (Jan 8, 2020)

dagger1 said:


> I just reread your response to my first post, and nowhere did you agree with me that timeshares can be a great investment for travelers. But I guess, now that you agree with me and I agree with you and we agree with each other etc. etc,, you have agreed that timeshares can be a great investment for those who travel. It’s great that you now see the financial wisdom of timesharing for the traveling public.



Haha. My original response was regarding your comment about earnings and savings. I never responded to your comments about your travel comments. My second response was about your statement regarding earnings and savings. The same issue I first responded to, to which you agreed with on the second pass. 

I don’t see TS as being an investment in the typical use of the word in the financial/investment community. Is it an investment in having enjoyable vacations as many have expressed here? Yes, I think that’s abundantly clear.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## uaremymuse (Jan 8, 2020)

CPNY said:


> Facts are facts. If you own in the right system it can work out quite well for you. If you have a lemon with mediocre resorts that no one wants to rent then it’s harsh. I love my choices and use them multiple times a year.



What system is that?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## dagger1 (Jan 8, 2020)

uaremymuse said:


> Haha. My original response was regarding your comment about earnings and savings. I never responded to your comments about your travel comments. My second response was about your statement regarding earnings and savings. The same issue I first responded to, to which you agreed with on the second pass.
> 
> I don’t see TS as being an investment in the typical use of the word in the financial/investment community. Is it an investment in having enjoyable vacations as many have expressed here? Yes, I think that’s abundantly clear.
> 
> ...


Traveling and utilizing timeshares is definitely enjoyable.  However this is not why I consider TS’s an investment, as you know by my responses above.  It’s been apparent from your OP that you don’t see TS’s as “an investment in the typical use of the word”, but that only applies to less savvy investors.  As you agreed above, smart saving strategies are great investments, and can provide substantial monetary gains.


----------



## heathpack (Jan 8, 2020)

uaremymuse said:


> I’ve been with them for 12 years and I have already liquidated my first investment. I’m sorry that you haven’t been contacted by this firm but I guess you aren’t on their radar. All the best and please stop messaging me. We have nothing further to discuss.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



Lol I don’t think you understand the difference between messaging someone on an Internet forum and replying to a post on an Internet forum.

You don’t get to control who responds to your posts if you start a conversation in a public venue like a discussion forum.  It’s the moderators and the owner of the forum who make that decision and it’s based on forum rules, not your personal preferences.

If you don’t want responses, then simply stop posting.  If you continue the conversation, then anyone is free to chime in.  

Even those of us “selling newspapers”.  Whatever in the heck that means.


----------



## uaremymuse (Jan 8, 2020)

dagger1 said:


> Traveling and utilizing timeshares is definitely enjoyable. However this is not why I consider TS’s an investment, as you know by my responses above. It’s been apparent from your OP that you don’t see TS’s as “an investment in the typical use of the word”, but that only applies to the savvy investors. As you agreed above, smart saving strategies are great investments, and can provide substantial monetary gains.



Haha. No, I didn’t say anything about “being a savvy investor” as that can imply a number of things. And no, I never said that smart saving strategies are great investments. I’m not even sure what that means. 
My comment on what you originally said dealt only with your comment about the relationship between savings and earnings. Nothing more, nothing less. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## uaremymuse (Jan 8, 2020)

heathpack said:


> Lol I don’t think you understand the difference between messaging someone on an Internet forum and replying to a post on an Internet forum.
> 
> You don’t get to control who responds to your posts if you start a conversation in a public venue like a discussion forum. It’s the moderators and the owner of the forum who make that decision and it’s based on forum rules, not your personal preferences.
> 
> ...



Lol. Really? Have you heard of the block command? I guess not. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## heathpack (Jan 8, 2020)

uaremymuse said:


> Lol. Really? Have you heard of the block command? I guess not.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



Go ahead and block anyone whose posts you don’t want to see.

That of course is not the same thing as prohibiting that person from replying to you.  The reply is still there, whether you choose to view it or not.  

Nor is it the same thing as repeatedly telling someone to stop messaging you.  Especially when the person is not, in fact, messaging you.


----------



## uaremymuse (Jan 8, 2020)

heathpack said:


> Go ahead and block anyone whose posts you don’t want to see.
> 
> That of course is not the same thing as prohibiting that person from replying to you. The reply is still there, whether you choose to view it or not.
> 
> Nor is it the same thing as repeatedly telling someone to stop messaging you. Especially when the person is not, in fact, messaging you.



Lol. Really? How silly of me. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## CPNY (Jan 8, 2020)

uaremymuse said:


> What system is that?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


It depends on what destinations you want, which resort chain you prefer. I own vistana properties mainly because I like to go to the Atlantis and the Westin properties. The ownership I have allows me to book at 8 months in any resort in the system with my points with a decent how fee. I paid pennies for the ownership and as of right now would have no issue finding someone to “buy” the units.
Last night I Saw availability and I used star options (points) in the amount of 64K which is 900 bucks in maint fee from a timeshare I got for free.... a large one bedroom at the harborside at Atlantis for 3/22-3/28. Attached is the going rate as of today $4527.78 for the same exact room for the dates I’m going. I’d say that makes what I own worth it. Considering it’s a place I really enjoy going to.


----------



## uaremymuse (Jan 8, 2020)

CPNY said:


> It depends on what destinations you want, which resort chain you prefer. I own vistana properties mainly because I like to go to the Atlantis and the Westin properties. The ownership I have allows me to book at 8 months in any resort in the system with my points with a decent how fee. I paid pennies for the ownership and as of right now would have no issue finding someone to “buy” the units.
> Last night I Saw availability and I used star options (points) in the amount of 64K which is 900 bucks in maint fee from a timeshare I got for free.... a large one bedroom at the harborside at Atlantis for 3/22-3/28. Attached is the going rate as of today $4527.78 for the same exact room for the dates I’m going. I’d say that makes what I own worth it. Considering it’s a place I really enjoy going to. View attachment 16157



I’d agree with you based on what you’ve shared. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## dagger1 (Jan 8, 2020)

uaremymuse said:


> Haha. No, I didn’t say anything about “being a savvy investor” as that can imply a number of things. And no, I never said that smart saving strategies are great investments. I’m not even sure what that means.
> My comment on what you originally said dealt only with your comment about the relationship between savings and earnings. Nothing more, nothing less.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Well I guess I can say thanks for clarifying what you didn’t say and didn’t mean and what you don’t understand and what you did say.  My comments were meant to aid in your understanding of the financial benefits of TS ownership.  Hopefully you now see that TS’s can be great investments for travelers, allowing them to grow their net worth faster than a non TS traveler.


----------



## uaremymuse (Jan 8, 2020)

dagger1 said:


> Well I guess I can say thanks for clarifying what you didn’t say and didn’t mean and what you don’t understand and what you did say. My comments were meant to aid in your understanding of the financial benefits of TS ownership. Hopefully you now see that TS’s can be great investments for travelers, allowing them to grow their net worth faster than a non TS traveler.



Haha. No, I don’t know how owning a TS helps a person grow a persons net worth. If you explained that then I missed it. Can you explain that in a a few words?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## CPNY (Jan 8, 2020)

uaremymuse said:


> Haha. No, I don’t know how owning a TS helps a person grow a persons net worth. If you explained that then I missed it. Can you explain that in a a few words?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


No one buys a TS to grow their net worth. I hope no one buys with that intention. If they do, they were lied to. Luckily this site is around and you can become educated on whether or not owning a TS is worth it for the family or themselves.


----------



## dagger1 (Jan 8, 2020)

uaremymuse said:


> Haha. No, I don’t know how owning a TS helps a person grow a persons net worth. If you explained that then I missed it. Can you explain that in a a few words?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I think I will pass on explaining again.  It’s all there if you want to reread my comments.  I’m pretty sure that everyone else reading my posts on this thread understand the TS financial benefits I have outlined.  If you didn’t understand it the first time, I don’t think repeating myself would help you understand.  Besides, it’s apparent that you have made your mind up about your question, it seems even before your OP.  Maybe someone else can simplify the math for you that would cause you to change your mind.


----------



## uaremymuse (Jan 8, 2020)

dagger1 said:


> I think I will pass on explaining again. It’s all there if you want to reread my comments. I’m pretty sure that everyone else reading my posts on this thread understand the TS financial benefits I have outlined. If you didn’t understand it the first time, I don’t think repeating myself would help you understand. Besides, it’s apparent that you have made your mind up about your question, it seems even before your OP. Maybe someone else can simplify the math for you that would cause you to change your mind.



Not sure why people make assumptions about my post. It was a sincere post. I wanted to be convinced that buying a time share made financial sense. My past understanding, many years ago, is that TS are lousy things to own. Some made the case that they have been able to take vacations for amounts that are less than what one would pay for the same thing on the open rental market in the same location and at the same time of year. I get that. What I’m still not convinced of is that they are an investment. I don’t think they are in the strictest since of what an investment is because when they are sold, you lose money. People get a return by spending less money on a vacation vs spending on a hotel, etc. so they calculate that savings as an offset to the loss on the sale in the future. But with maintenance fees, exchange fees and RCI and II fees, I guess some do ok and others don’t and could care less because their ROI is their enjoyment. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## LannyPC (Jan 8, 2020)

uaremymuse said:


> What I’m still not convinced of is that they are an investment. I don’t think they are in the strictest since of what an investment is because when they are sold, you lose money.



I look at them as an investment in one's vacation accommodations.


----------



## paxsarah (Jan 9, 2020)

uaremymuse said:


> Some made the case that they have been able to take vacations for amounts that are less than what one would pay for the same thing on the open rental market in the same location and at the same time of year. I get that.


If someone saves money they would otherwise have spent on traveling, that makes financial sense.


“uaremymuse said:


> What I’m still not convinced of is that they are an investment.


That wasn’t part of your original question. Most people were answering the former. If you were looking for an answer to the latter in your OP, you should have asked it there. Most of us would have simply said of course they’re not and left it right there.


----------



## Jan M. (Jan 9, 2020)

uaremymuse said:


> In financial terms, I lost money as do “all” TS owners when they decide to jettison their TS ownership.



This is the one thing out of the post it is quoted from that I can object to because it isn't true. Some people have actually made money. Not just on a timeshare purchased resale but on a developer purchase. We are one of the admittedly somewhat rare cases of people making money on a developer purchase.


----------



## uaremymuse (Jan 9, 2020)

Jan M. said:


> This is the one thing out of the post it is quoted from that I can object to because it isn't true. Some people have actually made money. Not just on a timeshare purchased resale but on a developer purchase. We are one of the admittedly somewhat rare cases of people making money on a developer purchase.



Which TS?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## dagger1 (Jan 9, 2020)

CPNY said:


> No one buys a TS to grow their net worth. I hope no one buys with that intention. If they do, they were lied to. Luckily this site is around and you can become educated on whether or not owning a TS is worth it for the family or themselves.


We did not buy our TS’s with the idea that we would sell them in 10-20 years and make a profit.  We bought with the full realization that they would be worth 50%-90% less than we paid for them.  Our financial consideration though, and why we bought, is because we knew we would 1. Be traveling 10-15 weeks per year and 2.  Would be traveling with family and/or friends and would need 2-4 BR’s per trip.  This is when the financial “investment” perspective became apparent to us.  Renting 2-4 hotel rooms at the times and places we wanted 10-15 times a year would cost approximately X dollars.  Buying TS’s, amortizing those upfront costs with annual MF’s would cost X minus 25-30%.  I haven’t matched our total TS costs annually with exact hotel room costs plus sales taxes plus resort fee’s plus parking etc., I just haven’t done the hotel cost side to compare.  But I am sure that we are saving $10K (at a minimum) by having purchased the TS’s vs renting multiple  hotel rooms.  I haven’t included the savings from eating meals in, or utilizing the in unit W/D.
This financial aspect of TS’s was a prime motivation for us when we bought.  The $10K-$15K we DON’T spend on hotel rooms drops straight to the bottom line, thus increasing our net worth.  Obviously this is only true for the “traveling” subset of the “investing” public.  If we didn’t travel we would save a lot more and our net worth would grow even faster.  But for travelers like us TS’s make significant financial sense.
Plus we get all the fabulous benefits mentioned above:  staying in units with family/friends and not being separated and isolated in bedrooms, having meals together without having to fight lines and noise, etc....


----------



## Jan M. (Jan 9, 2020)

uaremymuse said:


> Which TS?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



Golden Strand Villas. The resort has since then been bought out by a developer and no longer exists.


----------



## dagger1 (Jan 9, 2020)

uaremymuse said:


> Not sure why people make assumptions about my post. It was a sincere post. I wanted to be convinced that buying a time share made financial sense. My past understanding, many years ago, is that TS are lousy things to own. Some made the case that they have been able to take vacations for amounts that are less than what one would pay for the same thing on the open rental market in the same location and at the same time of year. I get that. What I’m still not convinced of is that they are an investment. I don’t think they are in the strictest since of what an investment is because when they are sold, you lose money. People get a return by spending less money on a vacation vs spending on a hotel, etc. so they calculate that savings as an offset to the loss on the sale in the future. But with maintenance fees, exchange fees and RCI and II fees, I guess some do ok and others don’t and could care less because their ROI is their enjoyment.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Yes, you are exactly right in this assessment.  Some people do the math, i.e., they amortize the purchase price of the TS, consider the loss upon sale of the TS, and consider the annual MF’s.  If these numbers make more sense for renting, then renting should be considered.  If these numbers make sense buying (resale, of course) a TS, then buy the TS.  It’s really that simple. Travelers should definitely consider TS’s because they make financial sense in many cases.  If the math doesn’t work, don’t buy.  
They are also fun to stay in


----------



## uaremymuse (Jan 9, 2020)

dagger1 said:


> Yes, you are exactly right in this assessment. Some people do the math, i.e., they amortize the purchase price of the TS, consider the loss upon sale of the TS, and consider the annual MF’s. If these numbers make more sense for renting, then renting should be considered. If these numbers make sense buying (resale, of course) a TS, then buy the TS. It’s really that simple. Travelers should definitely consider TS’s because they make financial sense in many cases. If the math doesn’t work, don’t buy.
> They are also fun to stay in



Great response. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## uaremymuse (Jan 9, 2020)

So, to borrow an over used phrase, at the end of the day, which TSs are the best to buy for diminishing one’s vacation costs along with increasing tradability into premier TSs and rentability towards profit making?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## dagger1 (Jan 9, 2020)

Our favorites are our Marriott’s in Hawaii (we have 5 2/2 EOYO’s) we go every 8-13 months, and our Hyatt’s in San Antonio, Breckenridge, and on Ka’anapali Beach.


----------



## WorldTraveler1972 (Jan 15, 2020)

CPNY said:


> It depends on what destinations you want, which resort chain you prefer. I own vistana properties mainly because I like to go to the Atlantis and the Westin properties. The ownership I have allows me to book at 8 months in any resort in the system with my points with a decent how fee. I paid pennies for the ownership and as of right now would have no issue finding someone to “buy” the units.
> Last night I Saw availability and I used star options (points) in the amount of 64K which is 900 bucks in maint fee from a timeshare I got for free.... a large one bedroom at the harborside at Atlantis for 3/22-3/28. Attached is the going rate as of today $4527.78 for the same exact room for the dates I’m going. I’d say that makes what I own worth it. Considering it’s a place I really enjoy going to. View attachment 16157


Hi, i was just wondering at which resort in staroptions you have.  I have not heard of any maintenance fees (including taxes but excluding the vsn fee) that are as low $900 for 64,000 points.  Can you let me know.  Thanks


----------



## bluehende (Jan 15, 2020)

One of the timeshares I own was bought for zero with 1 yr usage.  I can now deedback to the resort for zero.  That is a pretty good rate of return.  A lot better than the GE I have owned in the same time frame.


----------



## Makai Guy (Jan 15, 2020)

I have removed several posts from this thread that contributed nothing but personal squabbles.  If you can't discuss the topics and issues without making it personal please just suck it up and don't post.


----------



## uaremymuse (Jan 15, 2020)

Makai Guy said:


> I have removed several posts from this thread that contributed nothing but personal squabbles. If you can't discuss the topics and issues without making it personal please just suck it up and don't post.



Thank you. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## geist1223 (Jan 15, 2020)

Sorry. Thank you.


----------

