# Wyndham is the biggest commercial renter of WM units



## bizaro86 (Sep 13, 2018)

Website team is too busy rolling out the charge for guest certificates for things like that.


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## rickandcindy23 (Sep 13, 2018)

bizaro86 said:


> Website team is too busy rolling out the charge for guest certificates for things like that.


Yeah.  I guess you get some GC's free, but I think only at the time you book something.  I think I will have to pay to add people to our current reservation that I am hoping to rent.


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## breezez (Sep 13, 2018)

bizaro86 said:


> Website team is too busy rolling out the charge for guest certificates for things like that.



Many people on WM Owners always complain about commercial renting.   They voice these complaints to Wyndham they implement changes, while this may impede renters, it impedes regular owners to.

I’m not a mega renter, have rented only 1 week.   There may be times I’ll rent more to assist with MFs until I retire and can fully use all my time.   But I wish they would just leave program alone.

No disrespect to people who dont like renters, but the beauty of WM is everyone has the exact same access including that as the mega renter, you just have to be as motivated as they are to get bookings you want.

The fact is no matter how mad people get over renting Wyndham is by far the biggest commercial renter.   I’m sure they don’t pay guest certificate fees.

But now because of constant complaining I have to.


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## IsaiahB (Sep 13, 2018)

breezez said:


> The fact is no matter how mad people get over renting Wyndham is by far the biggest commercial renter.   I’m sure they don’t pay guest certificate fees.



Idle allegations. I'm sure of the opposite and have asked JH to get me an answer after the board meeting, which was yesterday.


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## ecwinch (Sep 13, 2018)

BoD President John Henley confirmed on WMOwners that Wyndham is charged a guest certificate for reservations they make. He was a little evasive if this applied to reservations they make for owners via special offers and FAX.

His statement was:

_Hi, Kevin, "any" reservation booked by WVR to a non-owner is subject to the guest fee. In our deliberations prior to approval of the program this was a potential deal breaker, the board felt so strongly about it. As for bonus time, this is a WorldMark program with all revenues coming to the Club, and, if memory serves me correctly, a guest reservation can only be booked within the last 4 days of availability. I'll have to get back to you about guest fee on this activity, as I am not certain. John_


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## ecwinch (Sep 13, 2018)

breezez said:


> The fact is no matter how mad people get over renting Wyndham is by far the biggest commercial renter.   I’m sure they don’t pay guest certificate fees.



While I agree with some of what you say, I am a strong believer in fact based arguments, and not arguments based on "beliefs or innuendo". 

So what facts would you offer to support your statement that they are "by far the biggest commercial renter"?

You could of course point to available inventory on ExtraHolidays - but keep in mind a couple of things:

1) Under the terms of the Declaration, the right to rent does not extend to the Declarant 
2) Under the terms of the Declaration, they have no right to use their credits to book a reservation more than 45 days out
3) Distressed inventory that the BoD identifies is made available on ExtraHolidays


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## bizaro86 (Sep 13, 2018)

Eric is right that extra holidays seems like conclusive evidence that wyndham is a huge renter of credits, but points to the declaration  as proof they can't. 

I say if there's smoke there's likely fire, and am reasonably confident Wyn lawyers could work around that.

I'm not a lawyer at all, but fax time is allowed. Why couldn't Wyn sell giant accounts to a related entity, and have that entity deposit the credits into the fax program. Then the credits would be cleaned and available for use. You would never see the transactions on the Wyn statements as transactions between multiple subsidiaries would be eliminated on consolidation. That wouldn't violate the letter of the declaration (imo), and they wouldn't disclose it, so nobody would know they are violating the spirit of it. 

If they needed the credits back to sell to consumers they would just buy them back from the subsidiary.  There are no deeds, so no one would ever know


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## breezez (Sep 13, 2018)

ecwinch said:


> While I agree with some of what you say, I am a strong believer in fact based arguments, and not arguments based on "beliefs or innuendo".
> 
> So what facts would you offer to support your statement that they are "by far the biggest commercial renter"?
> 
> ...


Eric

I respect your opinions both on tug and on WM Owners, but I don’t always agree with them, primarily around renting.   I have no real desire to be a mega renter and deal with head aches that go with that beast.  But I do feel everyone in the system has a equal footing to obtain reservations as any other owner.   So the argument that a mega renter gets all the good stuff just isn’t true.   If an owner is just as motivated to get a unit as another owner who mega rents they both have an equal chance.   The argument they have many accounts doesn’t matter anyone can have many accounts.  

Due in part probably to some changes I will be the first to tell you I have seen better availability in last year on WM.   But I have also seen the changes have impacted me as a regular owner who primarily uses what I own.

I just combined two accounts a non-NHK account into a NHK account.   Prior to the credit changed I could have sold the 4 HK tokens I had in this account prior to transfer by selling 20 credits with them.   So I lost the value of the 4HK tokens on the transfer.  I don’t need them now that they are in a NHK account.

But most notably the changes in credit rental in/out did change the value of people accounts as small account became a lot less valuable.   It also put pressure on credit rental prices now keeping them below average account credit costs.  While my opinion, I believe the Mega Renter and small account owners created a demand for credits people could not use due to life circumstances.   The changes curbed this demand and credits aren’t keeping pace with average credit costs for most.

I can constantly find, WorldMark units for rent on bookings.com, Trip Advisor, and other larger travel brokers months before checkin.   These sites deal with travel wholesalers with large inventory not little mega renter peeps.

So where does this inventory come from?  Many times it is on these sites but not on WM site to book.

At the 45 day mark does WM have to pay guest certificate fees for units they rent?

Club owners should demand more detail accounting of club expenses and detail on units developer take for rent or promotional use, units owners take for use and percentage of rentals with guest certificates would be nice.  Wyndham’s accounting is ambigous at best.

While I don’t know and I am assuming the Resorts that have the Parking Pass Peeps that are a pain in all our asses.  I would like to know if we the owners are paying for them.   I think we are as they also man the conceirge desks or work behind checkin counters to.   But it Irks me to think they are probably billing the club management fees to be pestered by these peeps.

An area I will agree with you on is the reserve funds.   I do believe this needs addressing.

But Eric if I see you at Tug get together next year I’ll buy you a beer and be happy to debate with you.


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## IsaiahB (Sep 13, 2018)

The inventory comes from the FAX pool. There's no need to play games with transferring the credits to related entities as the California courts upheld Wyn's rights to rent Fax credits. 

The parking pass staff are Marketing and their pay is not derived from the Club's revenues. 
In the case of the "Universal Agent" that performs the Check-in process and pitches the owner update, I assume the pay is split by function. If you own at a resort that has this position you could request that information or question it at a board meeting. It's non-existent or rare on the WM side but somewhat common on the CWP side.


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## CO skier (Sep 15, 2018)

ecwinch said:


> While I agree with some of what you say, I am a strong believer in fact based arguments, and not arguments based on "beliefs or innuendo".


That would eliminate more than 50% of WorldMark discussions on social media and be quite boring.


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## ecwinch (Sep 15, 2018)

CO skier said:


> That would eliminate more than 50% of WorldMark discussions on social media and be quite boring.



Only 50%? I dont think so... #FakeNews


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## disloan (Sep 21, 2018)

I am a small 6000 credit trendwest owner, and I use my points to a bigger vacation every two years and inbetween I use monday madness, and bonus time for myself and my family.  I have always had to put a guest name in..I don't "rent" out time but the extra money for using monday madness or bonus time for a day here and there for my adult children is a terrible idea.  Four days or less and if its just one day thats there an extra 99.00 dollars! Seems like someone else.
the club maybe..wants to have the inventory or empty rooms for themselves.  why even offer a guest to be able to do anything? This has kind of ruined it for my family who has enjoyed a day here or there when available on bonus time. Maybe we should allow 10 people to own one 6000 points..that way they become a part owner and we can allow them to book a day or there.


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## breezez (Sep 21, 2018)

disloan said:


> I am a small 6000 credit trendwest owner, and I use my points to a bigger vacation every two years and inbetween I use monday madness, and bonus time for myself and my family.  I have always had to put a guest name in..I don't "rent" out time but the extra money for using monday madness or bonus time for a day here and there for my adult children is a terrible idea.  Four days or less and if its just one day thats there an extra 99.00 dollars! Seems like someone else.
> the club maybe..wants to have the inventory or empty rooms for themselves.  why even offer a guest to be able to do anything? This has kind of ruined it for my family who has enjoyed a day here or there when available on bonus time. Maybe we should allow 10 people to own one 6000 points..that way they become a part owner and we can allow them to book a day or there.


Others may chime in, but I think you can add two authorized users to your account and they would be able to book without a guest certificate.  I am not sure because I have not done it but form is under your account in forms section, called permission addendum


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## bizaro86 (Sep 21, 2018)

disloan said:


> I am a small 6000 credit trendwest owner, and I use my points to a bigger vacation every two years and inbetween I use monday madness, and bonus time for myself and my family.  I have always had to put a guest name in..I don't "rent" out time but the extra money for using monday madness or bonus time for a day here and there for my adult children is a terrible idea.  Four days or less and if its just one day thats there an extra 99.00 dollars! Seems like someone else.
> the club maybe..wants to have the inventory or empty rooms for themselves.  why even offer a guest to be able to do anything? This has kind of ruined it for my family who has enjoyed a day here or there when available on bonus time. Maybe we should allow 10 people to own one 6000 points..that way they become a part owner and we can allow them to book a day or there.



You can have 2 owners per account. So you could add one of your adult children to the account and they wouldn't have to pay. It's normally $299 to change that, but might be worth it.

You could also try calling ovations. There have been a few reports of people getting transfers to their kids done at no charge, so they might add one for you for free.


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## rhonda (Sep 22, 2018)

breezez said:


> Others may chime in, but I think you can add two authorized users to your account and they would be able to book without a guest certificate.  I am not sure because I have not done it but form is under your account in forms section, called permission addendum
> 
> 
> View attachment 8291


FWIW, I asked a VC about using this to get around 'guest certs' for family members and was told it wouldn't work.  Of course, the VC was still 'learning the ropes' of the new change (at that time) ... perhaps a more solid answer has been determined?


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## breezez (Sep 22, 2018)

rhonda said:


> FWIW, I asked a VC about using this to get around 'guest certs' for family members and was told it wouldn't work.  Of course, the VC was still 'learning the ropes' of the new change (at that time) ... perhaps a more solid answer has been determined?


I am not sure it works, I mentioned because I saw another post in past month on tug we’re the poster said it did work and they were told by VC to do this

What I do know is the Permission Addendum form allows you to add them to your II and / or RCI accounts


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