# Embarc Resale Questions



## Nick66 (Feb 11, 2022)

I’m looking at buying embarc points to get access to Canadian Ski resorts. I anticipate strictly using with Embarc for myself or renting ski weeks.

1. What are points going for per point resale?
2. What restrictions are on resale points?
3. Is there other fees to consider? Booking? Guest cert. etc?
4. Are the points required for booking based on the TDI in interval? (I found a chart referencing this online)
5. What booking window applies and are resale points disadvantaged at all for booking?
Anything else I should be aware of?

That’s all the questions off the top of my head. I appreciate the help!


----------



## echino (Feb 11, 2022)

I looked into this closely, specifically to book peak Whistler ski dates, and decided against it, even if I could get Embarc points for free on the resale market.

First reason is cost. It takes a lot of points to book peak ski weeks, resulting in a very high maintenance fee cost of about $2,500 per week in a 2br.

Second reason is availability. It is reportedly very hard to book peak ski weeks.


----------



## Nick66 (Feb 11, 2022)

Thanks. I would be booking mainly at Panorama which should be a little easier to book than Whistler? How many points are required to book a peak ski week?


----------



## Seagila (Feb 11, 2022)

Nick66 said:


> How many points are required to book a peak ski week?


----------



## echino (Feb 11, 2022)

So 290 points for a ski week in 2br in Panorama. How much are 2022 maintenance fees, around $8 per point? That's still expensive. Panorama will be easier to book than Whistler, but Panorama ski weeks are also a lot easier to get via an exchange, which is much more cost effective.


----------



## Nick66 (Feb 11, 2022)

Seagila said:


> View attachment 46836


What are the dates for those different seasons?
Thanks


----------



## Nick66 (Feb 11, 2022)

echino said:


> So 290 points for a ski week in 2br in Panorama. How much are 2022 maintenance fees, around $8 per point? That's still expensive. Panorama will be easier to book than Whistler, but Panorama ski weeks are also a lot easier to get via an exchange, which is much more cost effective.


Yes I believe they are around $8 per point. That is quite expensive. I have never put in an OGS for Panorama. I have only looked manually and never see any. I guess I should put one for next winter with my SDO one bedroom and see if it will match.


----------



## echino (Feb 11, 2022)

I've seen Embarc Panorama bulk deposits in II for summer and winter, including even Christmas weeks. So it's definitely possible to get a ski week via II, especially if you place a request and then catch a bulk deposit.


----------



## dread2lee (Jul 12, 2022)

Anyone have experience trading HGVC points for Embarc under the old system. How many points would it take to get a 1 bedroom, 2bedroom. thanks


----------



## dayooper (Jul 12, 2022)

dread2lee said:


> Anyone have experience trading HGVC points for Embarc under the old system. How many points would it take to get a 1 bedroom, 2bedroom. thanks



Not sure it matters right now (our latest is that they will remain separate for the time being), but here’s the points for some of them. 










						Embarc letter from HGVC - Some small news
					

Saw this thread on a letter to the Embarc owners over on the DRI Forum. It has some small insights into the relationship between HGVC and Embarc  Some Highlights   HGV has recommended that Embarc be rebranded as Hilton Grand Vacation properties and the Embarc board approved the change, but the...




					tugbbs.com


----------



## Bill4728 (Aug 5, 2022)

We just sat through a update at Embarc Whistler.  They are still just selling more Embarc points.  Priced from $199 - $289 /pt

They have no info on how they will integrate with HGVC.   They do say they should have more info in the mid-fall.


----------



## GT75 (Aug 5, 2022)

Bill4728 said:


> They are still just selling more Embarc points. Priced from $199 - $289 /pt


Thanks Bill.    Can you give us an idea of how many Embarc pts are required for both 1Br/2Br in prime season?    Also, why the large range of price?


----------



## Bill4728 (Aug 6, 2022)

A 1 bedroom is about 150 pts / prime (non holiday) week and about 220 for a two bedroom

The price of points is because they list "the regular" price at $289  But the "special, buy now" price at $199.

PS   They knew next to nothing about DRI's selling HGVCMax to other DRI owners


----------



## echino (Aug 6, 2022)

GT75 said:


> Thanks Bill.    Can you give us an idea of how many Embarc pts are required for both 1Br/2Br in prime season?    Also, why the large range of price?



Embarc Whistler peak ski weeks (like in March) are 225 points for one bedroom or *304 points for two bedroom*.


----------



## Bill4728 (Aug 6, 2022)

Whistler has five seasons,   from Low (1) to holiday (5)
My post is peak (4)  _ A 1 bedroom is about 150 pts / prime (non holiday) week and about 220 for a two bedroom _

Holiday season is 203 for 1 bd and  280 for 2 bd   



echino said:


> Embarc Whistler peak ski weeks (like in March) are 225 points for one bedroom or *304 points for two bedroom*.


These are for Holiday season and in the deluxe "lodge" units   These lodge units have a little nicer furniture and vaulted
ceilings.  IMHO not worth the extra points

Holiday season is about 30% of the mid winter weeks


----------



## echino (Aug 6, 2022)

Bill4728 said:


> Whistler has five seasons,   from Low (1) to holiday (5)
> My post is peak (4)  _ A 1 bedroom is about 150 pts / prime (non holiday) week and about 220 for a two bedroom _
> 
> Holiday season is 203 for 1 bd and  280 for 2 bd
> ...



No, 304 points are for a standard two bedroom during the holiday week in February and during March break, unless I am reading the chart wrong:








40*5 + 52*2 = 304


----------



## sng85 (Aug 6, 2022)

What’s the MFs for 304 points? 
And is Embarc still exercising ROFR?
Thanks


----------



## echino (Aug 6, 2022)

sng85 said:


> What’s the MFs for 304 points?
> And is Embarc still exercising ROFR?
> Thanks



I think the fees were about USD $7 per point a few years ago. Perhaps @cd5 could post the current fees?

I was seriously considering purchasing Embarc points resale, but decided against it, even if I could get the nearly for free. Several reasons:

1. I need to book school break time, but in addition to being very expensive points-wise, it's also reportedly very difficult to book. I tried joining Embarc owners group on Facebook to ask questions about booking etc, but was not allowed to join because the group is for owners only.

2. I need exactly 304 points, but it's impossible to buy that amount resale. It's likely 300 or 350, which generates waste or banking headaches.

3. Maintenance fees are extremely high.

4. I've been successful so far exchanging in Embarc resorts via Interval very cost effectively.


----------



## sng85 (Aug 7, 2022)

echino said:


> I think the fees were about USD $7 per point a few years ago. Perhaps @cd5 could post the current fees?
> 
> I was seriously considering purchasing Embarc points resale, but decided against it, even if I could get the nearly for free. Several reasons:
> 
> ...


Thanks, very helpful. MFs do seem to be on the high side for a majority of the weeks that we would travel (holidays, spring break, even summer). That said, it’s still more than 50% cheaper than retail in those resorts so if I can find points at the right price, I would go for it.
 I don’t know if Embarc is exercising ROFR, so my “right price” may be wishful thinking if they are...


----------



## middleoforchid (Aug 7, 2022)

sng85 said:


> Thanks, very helpful. MFs do seem to be on the high side for a majority of the weeks that we would travel (holidays, spring break, even summer). That said, it’s still more than 50% cheaper than retail in those resorts so if I can find points at the right price, I would go for it.
> I don’t know if Embarc is exercising ROFR, so my “right price” may be wishful thinking if they are...


I looked up the Whistler point charts for 2022-2023, there are only 4 intervals that is HOLIDAY period---2/19-2/23, 3/12-3/16,3/19-3/23 and 12/12-12/31 only about 30 days of the year and going by Mr.Enchino's uploaded chart, it'll be 196 pts(1bd) and 280pts(2bd) for 7 days.....less for 6 days in 2bdrm(240points).
Rest of winter and all of summer is only as Bill said PEAK period 150pts(1 bd)/210pts(2 bd). 2022 mtn fee $8.60 CAD not high at all compared to Marriott trust pts or even my Hilton pts in Hawaii


----------



## cd5 (Aug 7, 2022)

Maintenance fees are currently at $7usd but may increase slightly in November when we get the amounts for next year. Resale is a bargain, much, much less than the lowest developer price although demand has been going up and thus points selling for more currently. ROFR has not been reported to have been used for quite some time (which means developer has enough points inventory to sell and doesn't want take on more of the annual fees they would be responsable for if they had more.)


----------



## sng85 (Aug 7, 2022)

middleoforchid said:


> I looked up the Whistler point charts for 2022-2023, there are only 4 intervals that is HOLIDAY period---2/19-2/23, 3/12-3/16,3/19-3/23 and 12/12-12/31 only about 30 days of the year and going by Mr.Enchino's uploaded chart, it'll be 196 pts(1bd) and 280pts(2bd) for 7 days.....less for 6 days in 2bdrm(240points).
> Rest of winter and all of summer is only as Bill said PEAK period 150pts(1 bd)/210pts(2 bd). 2022 mtn fee $8.60 CAD not high at all compared to Marriott trust pts or even my Hilton pts in Hawaii



Good point. I was extrapolating from Blue Mountain which is likely where we’ll go everywhere since we spend 4-6 weeks in Toronto every year. BM has 2x Winter break, presidents week, 3x spring break, and all of July that are at the max points - so 11 weeks vs 5 weeks for Whistler. That said it’s 285 points for a 2-bed vs 304. Still substantially below retail during those periods so like @cd5 said, great value. 
  (


----------



## Bill4728 (Aug 7, 2022)

It is 40 pts per night for all 7 nights   or 280 points     During peak season it is cheaper during the week and more on weekends  NOT during holiday season.


----------



## echino (Aug 7, 2022)

Bill4728 said:


> It is 40 pts per night for all 7 nights   or 280 points     During peak season it is cheaper during the week and more on weekends  NOT during holiday season.



How easy / hard it is to book a Christmas/ New Year's week in a 2br in Whistler for 280 points?


----------



## sng85 (Aug 7, 2022)

Bill4728 said:


> It is 40 pts per night for all 7 nights   or 280 points     During peak season it is cheaper during the week and more on weekends  NOT during holiday season.


Admittedly, I am a bit confused. So if one were to book the full week of Feb 18-25, is it 304 points like @echino calculated in #16 above or 280 points?


----------



## bizaro86 (Aug 8, 2022)

sng85 said:


> Admittedly, I am a bit confused. So if one were to book the full week of Feb 18-25, is it 304 points like @echino calculated in #16 above or 280 points?



Echino was correct, because the weekend is the season down, which (confusingly) has higher weekend pricing than the highest season, which is the same price every day.


----------



## middleoforchid (Aug 8, 2022)

sng85 said:


> Admittedly, I am a bit confused. So if one were to book the full week of Feb 18-25, is it 304 points like @echino calculated in #16 above or 280 points?


Checked for 2023 points for your requested dates Feb18c/I Feb25 c/o for 7 nights
Blue Mountain——1bd need 234 ground floor, 262 upper floor
                               2bd need 285 points ground floor units, more for upper floors
Whistler——-1bd need 225 pts
                      2bd need 304 pts
You will save 50-60 points if u book only 6 nights because for Peak season Fri&Sat points are even more than Holiday season. 

2023 Feb availability there is no more 6 or 7 consecutive days only blocks of 3 days left. Embarc properties you can book 11 months out for 6 days and more. Otherwise you’d have to wait 6 months out for less than 6 days bookings.

Looks like maybe you need to buy 300-350 points for 2 bdrm 7 nights usage?
Hope this helps you and happy hunting for some Embarc resale pts, you will enjoy the accommodations.


----------



## sng85 (Aug 8, 2022)

Thank you @bizaro86 @middleoforchid for confirming. 
Yes looking forward to finding a deed that works!


----------



## cd5 (Aug 9, 2022)

sng85 said:


> Thank you @bizaro86 @middleoforchid for confirming.
> Yes looking forward to finding a deed that works!


Note that Embarc is not a deeded timeshare. It is a right-to-use with the points secured in a trust. If you don't find 1 resale contract with what you want, you can always buy another separately. They will be moved to the same use-year (Feb to Jan for example) if they are not already when you buy.


----------



## sng85 (Aug 9, 2022)

cd5 said:


> Note that Embarc is not a deeded timeshare. It is a right-to-use with the points secured in a trust. If you don't find 1 resale contract with what you want, you can always buy another separately. They will be moved to the same use-year (Feb to Jan for example) if they are not already when you buy.


Good to know about combining points! Does the month that points are assigned matter? I’m wondering if that should be a consideration in my search for points?


----------



## cd5 (Aug 10, 2022)

sng85 said:


> Good to know about combining points! Does the month that points are assigned matter? I’m wondering if that should be a consideration in my search for points?


Not really, with the Hilton takeover à few things will be changing but even now, when you buy a second contract everything is put on the date of the biggest one. The annual fees are due at the end of November for everyone regardless of the use-year date.


----------



## RickV (Aug 16, 2022)

Bill4728 said:


> A 1 bedroom is about 150 pts / prime (non holiday) week and about 220 for a two bedroom
> 
> The price of points is because they list "the regular" price at $289  But the "special, buy now" price at $199.
> 
> PS   They knew next to nothing about DRI's selling HGVCMax to other DRI owners


How many points required to get $199 per point cost?


----------



## cd5 (Aug 19, 2022)

I'd buy resale at $40-50 per point. No real advantage to buying from the developer at $198


----------



## CanuckTravlr (Aug 20, 2022)

sng85 said:


> Good point. I was extrapolating from Blue Mountain which is likely where we’ll go everywhere since we spend 4-6 weeks in Toronto every year. BM has 2x Winter break,* presidents week*, 3x spring break, and all of July that are at the max points - so 11 weeks vs 5 weeks for Whistler. That said it’s 285 points for a 2-bed vs 304. Still substantially below retail during those periods so like @cd5 said, great value.



Just to clarify, that week is at max points because the third Monday in February is a statutory holiday in Ontario (and several other provinces, including Alberta and BC) called Family Day.  So lots of Canadians use that week for skiing with their families.  Family Day is the same day as President's Day, which obviously is not a holiday in Canada.  But it makes the demand even higher, since many Americans are within driving (or a short flight) distance for a ski vacation.


----------



## sng85 (Aug 24, 2022)

I’m in the process of buying Embarc points. The sale is supposed to include partial 2022 points. The estoppel however states usage starting 2023 and only the 2023 points. The sale & purchase worksheet from the broker does correctly call out the partial 2022 points. Is it ok to proceed with the estoppel without the 2022 call out?


----------



## cd5 (Aug 24, 2022)

I'm no





sng85 said:


> I’m in the process of buying Embarc points. The sale is supposed to include partial 2022 points. The estoppel however states usage starting 2023 and only the 2023 points. The sale & purchase worksheet from the broker does correctly call out the partial 2022 points. Is it ok to proceed with the estoppel without the 2022 call out?


I'm not sure what an "estoppel" (not a legal term used where I live) would be however Embarc doesn't require anything other than the transfer form with the info and terms for both buyer and seller in it. If the agreement (transfer form which is sent to DRI office in Florida) states that all banked (saved) and unused points are to be transferred then Embarc would move them to the new member's account.


----------



## sng85 (Aug 24, 2022)

cd5 said:


> I'm no
> I'm not sure what an "estoppel" (not a legal term used where I live) would be however Embarc doesn't require anything other than the transfer form with the info and terms for both buyer and seller in it. If the agreement (transfer form which is sent to DRI office in Florida) states that all banked (saved) and unused points are to be transferred then Embarc would move them to the new member's account.


Thanks! Good to know.
FYI on what is an Estoppel  








						What is an Estoppel Letter
					

Do I need an Estoppel Letter to buy or sell a Timeshare?



					tug2.net


----------



## CanuckTravlr (Aug 25, 2022)

cd5 said:


> I'm not sure what an "estoppel" (not a legal term used where I live) would be...



That's because the poster lives in the Province of Québec, whose legal system operates under a version of the French Code Civil.  The legal system in the rest of Canada (and the USA) developed from British Common Law, where an "estoppel" is a legal term used to describe and verify certain disclosures during the sale and purchase of (usually) real estate, as commented on in the post above by @sng85.


----------



## cd5 (Aug 25, 2022)

CanuckTravlr said:


> That's because the poster lives in the Province of Québec, whose legal system operates under a version of the French Code Civil.  The legal system in the rest of Canada (and the USA) developed from British Common Law, where an "estoppel" is a legal term used to describe and verify certain disclosures during the sale and purchase of (usually) real estate, as commented on in the post above by @sng85.


Yes I'm aware of the legal system here. I live in Québec and am educated in English (and old enough to have had numerous house transactions) It's not a term in common use.


----------



## cd5 (Aug 25, 2022)

sng85 said:


> Thanks! Good to know.
> FYI on what is an Estoppel
> 
> 
> ...


I would call that doing one's "due diligence" and ensuring with Embarc, before finalizing the sale, that all is indeed as portrayed by the seller.


----------



## CanuckTravlr (Aug 25, 2022)

cd5 said:


> Yes I'm aware of the legal system here. I live in Québec and am educated in English (and old enough to have had numerous house transactions) It's not a term in common use.



I have no doubt that you are fully aware of your own legal system.  My comments were not directed at you so much as for the benefit of those members of TUG (mainly Americans) who might not have been aware of that difference.  While the term "estoppel" may not be in common use in Québec, due to a different system, it is a common legal term elsewhere in Canada.  As an example, an estoppel certificate is produced every time a condominium unit is sold in Ontario.


----------



## middleoforchid (Aug 27, 2022)

sng85 said:


> I’m in the process of buying Embarc points. The sale is supposed to include partial 2022 points. The estoppel however states usage starting 2023 and only the 2023 points. The sale & purchase worksheet from the broker does correctly call out the partial 2022 points. Is it ok to proceed with the estoppel without the 2022 call out?


So happy for you, hope the sale goes thru smoothly


----------



## Tacoma (Aug 27, 2022)

Just to be aware when I had the embarc transferred into my name it came with all the available points and originally showed a zero owing balance. Then about 2 months later they showed the balance for the fees that should have been paid last November. I argued that even if the fees had not been paid in November that they should have told me that earlier in the process. It took about 6-8 weeks to sort out and now my balance shows as zero again. I also contacted the person who I got the contract from and he had paid the fees in November. My suggestion would be to confirm with the buyer that fees were paid in November so you shoud owe nothing until this November. My diligence saved me over $1000 Canadian.


----------



## heatherfbaby (Wednesday at 11:29 AM)

Hey guys!

I heard that you can only purchase 120 point+ contracts over resale. Is this true? We are looking at adding 100 point contract to our current points but wanted to see if anyone knew if it was possible first?


----------

