# Comparison of PE Platinum with Ultimate Resorts and PE Premiere with HCC.



## vineyarder (May 20, 2007)

This was posted in another thread (that was originally about BelleHavens) in response to a question, but I also posted it here so that it would get more exposure, since it is really a new thread... Hope that is not violating some rule of forum etiquitte!



> How do you compare PE Platinum with Ultimate Resorts? and PE Premiere vs HCC.



Glad to help, though I need to preface my comments with the disclaimer that while I am very familiar with PE and how it works, my knowledge of Ultimate and HCC are much more superficial.  When I was doing due diligence before joining PE, Ultimate resorts didn’t exist yet (at least under that name), and HCC only had about 3 – 4 homes, and their website made it sound like it was basically a ski destination club.  Obviously either my impression was wrong, or they changed their focus, since HCC obviously now has a very well-rounded portfolio of homes.

*Starting with PE Platinum vs. Ultimate Resorts:*

Homes:  Ultimate has homes averaging $2M, with 3000 sq ft. and 3 – 5 bedrooms in resorts and 800 – 1600 sq ft with 1 – 2 bedrooms in cities; PE Platinum has homes averaging $1.6M with 3000 – 4000 sq ft and 3 – 5 bedrooms in resorts and 1000 – 2000 sq ft and 1 – 3 bedrooms in cities.  Looking over the photos, the fit and finish and furnishing seem very similar.

Locations:  Similar numbers and pretty equally attractive listings, with considerable overlap (Abaco, Jackson Hole, Kiawah, New York, La Quinta, Cabos, Miami, Orlando, Telluride).  Several locations are even in the same development (Ritz Carlton Resort on Abaco, Trump Tower in NYC).  PE Platinum has the advantage of reciprocity with the other two clubs with PE, significantly increasing choice.

Services:  Pretty identical; concierge services to plan out all aspects of your vacation, stock groceries, meet & greet, etc.

Costs:  Current pricing on PE Platinum is $200K deposit (80% refundable), $11,500 annual dues, unlimited nightly usage at $138/nt., 28 days in reservation system at a time; total cost per night at 28 days = $905, at 42 days = $650/nt, at 60 days = $496/nt.  Ultimate has numerous plans; current comparable pricing is $200K deposit with 28 nights per year, $17,000 annual dues = $964/nt; or $215,000 deposit with $22,000 annual dues for 42 nights, = $780/nt.

Deposit Refund:  PE Platinum is now 80% refundable (used to be 100%); Ultimate is 80% of then current price; presumably higher, but could be lower.

Reservations:  Ultimate has a minimum of 3 night stay, max of 7 nights per reservation; reservations can be made up to 2 years in advance, with max of 3 – 4 in system (depending upon plan), with 1 holiday reservation allowed (holidays = Xmas, New Years, Thanksgiving, Spring Break, Presidents Day, July 4th).  PE has a minimum of 1 night and max of 14 nights, up to 28 days reserved in system at once, no limit on how far out a reservation can be made.  Only holiday restrictions are Xmas and New Years weeks.

Unaccompanied extended family: Included at no extra charge with Ultimate, requires a special upcharge with PE (necessary since usage is unlimited).

*Bottom Line: Overall quite comparable, with homes, locations, and services essentially a tie; PE can be significantly lower cost if you use it more than 42 nights/yr, and PE has a much more flexible reservation system/policy (1 – 14 night stay, much less holiday restrictions, etc.).  Ultimate allows you to potentially profit on the sale of your membership (though you could also end up with less if prices drop), and Ultimate allows unaccompanied family members to use the properties without an upcharge.  For me, the much more flexible reservation system with PE is a huge advantage, as is the unlimited usage, with a nightly fee, so you don’t have to select how many days you’ll use when you join; if you use more, you pay more (but your cost per night decreases).*

*PE Premiere vs. HCC*

Homes:  HCC has homes averaging $850K, with 1000 - 3000 sq ft. and 2 - 4 bedrooms; PE Premiere also has homes averaging $850K, with 1000 – 3000 sq ft and 2 – 4 bedrooms in resorts.  Looking over the photos, the fit and finish and furnishings seem pretty similar.

Locations:  Similar numbers and pretty equally attractive listings, with considerable overlap (Beaver Creek, Cabo, La Costa, La Quinta, New York City, Outer Banks, Puerta Vallarta, Rosemary Beach, Tuscany, Steamboat Springs, Stowe, Turks & Caicos, Waikoloa).  Several locations are even in the same development (1600 Broadway in NYC, Beaver Creek, La Costa, La Quinta).  PE Premiere has the advantage of reciprocity with the other two clubs with PE (albeit at a higher nightly fee), significantly increasing choice, and allowing members to stay 1 week a year in either a $1.6M - $2M property (Platinum) or a $3.5 - $4M property (Pinnacle).

Services:  Both have concierge services to plan out all aspects of your vacation; PE Premiere will stock groceries, meet & greet, etc; I’m not sure about HCC.

Costs:  Current pricing on PE Premiere is $105K deposit (80% refundable), $7700 annual dues, unlimited nightly usage at $82/nt., 28 days in reservation system at a time; total cost per night at 28 days = $545, at 42 days = $390/nt, at 60 days = $298/nt.  HCC has numerous plans; current pricing on the most comparable plan is $60K deposit with 45 nights per year, $8500 annual dues, no nightly fee = $255/nt.  HCC’s least expensive plan is only $30K deposit with $3500 annual fees for 15 days usage, or $333/nt.

Deposit Refund:  Both are now 80% refundable.

Reservations:  With the “HCC Private Plan”, members can make 2 reservations up to a year in advance, plus 1 holiday reservation.  All reservations more than 60 days in advance are for 7 nights.  A minimum of 4 nights per stay can be booked within 60 days.  Couldn’t find info on what HCC classifies as holidays.  PE has a minimum of 1 night and max of 14 nights, up to 28 days reserved in system at once, no limit on how far out a reservation can be made.  Only holiday restrictions are Xmas and New Years weeks.

Unaccompanied extended family: Included at no extra charge for 7 nights per year with HCC’s top plan, otherwise member must be present.  Requires a special upcharge with PE, or a corporate/extended membership.

*Bottom Line: Both great clubs.  HCC has an incredible entry point, with their least expensive plan costing only $30K deposit plus $3500 per year for 15 nights.  Nothing else in the industry can come close to that, so they are alone in that sector, and can even compete very effectively with high-end timeshares.  For someone with limited vacation time, HCC’s Associate membership is a phenomenal deal.  For someone with significantly more vacation time, either is a great choice, with similar homes in similar locations; in my analysis it comes down to price vs. flexibility.  PE Premiere has a much more flexible reservation system/policy (1 – 14 night stay, few holiday restrictions, up to 28 days reserved as far in advance as you want, etc.), but HCC is less expensive (overall cost with 45 nights usage = $255 with HCC, $370 with PE).*


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## m61376 (May 20, 2007)

Great analysis- thanks!
For me, at least, one of my problems with HCC was flexibility. Their holidays encompass just under a quarter of the year- if I recollect properly, there were 12 "Holiday" weeks (New Year's, MLK, President's week, 4 spring break weeks, Memorial Day, 4th of July, Labor Day, Thanksgiving and Christmas). Also, while the least expensive plan sounds great as an entry level, those members don't get to book a year out so will be selecting from the left-overs. Of course, the opposite argument can be made that the pricing is great.
Likely I will regret not jumping on the bandwagon early on but, like PerryM, I'd like to see some tangible backing for my investment.


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## Bourne (May 20, 2007)

Thank you for posting the comparisons. 

Being someone who did his due diligence on PE Premiere and HCC, I am throwing in my two cents for the PE vs HCC comparison. 

Location: HCC and PE Premiere have such a considerable overlap that thy are potential merger candidates. IMHO, there are subtle differences in properties. The location of beach and mountain properties is a lot better than PE. Compare T&C, Playa, Cabo, etc and you can see the difference. The NY properties are in the same building but HCC has a wall between the bedroom and living whereas PE's looks more like a studio.
HCC does have a few flagship properties that are in $1.5 mil range. However, PE has a much larger portfolio to choose from for reciprocity benefit. Then again, 7 days out of 45 is not a whole lot. From PE Premiere vs HCC comparision, I would rate HCC's properties better and numerically the same. Any positive that HCC had in this comparision is negated by PE's  reciprocity benefit as there are lot more properties to choose from. IMHO, a tie. 

Service: HCC does provide concierge service, pre-stocking of grocerices, private chef services, daily or mid week maid service on request. There is no eet and greet service. HCC's model is to bill these separately to avoid charging a blanket nightly fees. From a cost prespective, this is a big plus for HCC. However, as a comparison, I would call it a tie.  

Costs: Enough said. HCC beats anyone hands down. 

Reservation: PE allows a 14 day reservation. IMHO, it is a big plus. I have contacted HCC regarding it and requested them to look into it for Private members. HCC dos allow "Days made available" feature that is outside the scope of any reservation rules. In all, a plus for PE as it allows more flexibility. 

Unaccompanied extended family: HCC provides it for free whereas PE charges for it. 

In all, I beleive both clubs are selling to the same market. By the virtue of coming to the market early, PE has a heads up with larger portfolio of properties. Since the time I considered joining HCC, it has added 50+ members and 10+ properties. At the moment, HCC is playing catch up with PE. However given the level of growth that HCC has demonstrated till now, it would easily surpass PE in the near future.

P.S. I am an owner and investor in HCC.


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## travelguy (May 20, 2007)

*High Country Club property availability*



m61376 said:


> Great analysis- thanks!
> For me, at least, one of my problems with HCC was flexibility. Their holidays encompass just under a quarter of the year- if I recollect properly, there were 12 "Holiday" weeks (New Year's, MLK, President's week, 4 spring break weeks, Memorial Day, 4th of July, Labor Day, Thanksgiving and Christmas). Also, while the least expensive plan sounds great as an entry level, those members don't get to book a year out so will be selecting from the left-overs. Of course, the opposite argument can be made that the pricing is great.
> Likely I will regret not jumping on the bandwagon early on but, like PerryM, I'd like to see some tangible backing for my investment.



I've been a High Country Club Private member for six months now and I'm amazed by the availability of properties.  Four of the five weeks that I've booked for this year have been within the period that you would have in the lesser expensive plans (9 months).  Two of those four weeks have been booked within the 60 day reservation window (Aspen - Feb & Breckenridge - Mar/Spring Break).  I would not worry about availability of High Country Club properties unless your are looking for New Year's eve which seems to book out early.


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## puffpuff (May 20, 2007)

There is no perfect club, but so far members of most  clubs seems to be happy. Your analaysis is right on.  HCC is a true value play at this time, but they are a bit less flexible in terms of min day and how far out you can book ( max 1 year) compare to PE. PE Premium  is a value play if you are a user of more than 42 days as you say. 

HCC is very strong in ski locations and great if you are in Colorado or nearby where you can really take advantage of last minute reservations . They are just getting more into coastals areas. Hopefully there will be a good balance going foward. 

The reicipricity idea sounds good.  Does it works well in reality in terms of gettting a bigger house at the time you want ( ex christmas and NEW Year of course). Or one ends up getting mostly low seasons for such reicprocity.

2. I notice they have not been adding new locations lately in their premiere seciton. Am I right?


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## m61376 (May 20, 2007)

Bourne said:


> T
> 
> Unaccompanied extended family: HCC provides it for free whereas PE charges for it.



Is this new or only a feature of the more expensive (?most exp.) plan? Because that is something I talked to them about and as of a few months ago it wasn't a feature of the Affiliate membership.


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## Bourne (May 20, 2007)

It is a feature provided to Private/Corporate membership.. i.e. top two tiers...


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## vineyarder (May 20, 2007)

> The reicipricity idea sounds good. Does it works well in reality in terms of gettting a bigger house at the time you want ( ex christmas and NEW Year of course). Or one ends up getting mostly low seasons for such reicprocity.



Reciprocity isn't allowed at Xmas or New Years, but otherwise availability has been very good.  I'm in Platinum (the middle club), so I can trade 'down' to take advantage of additional destinations, or 'up' to get a bigger home; from Premiere, you have 2 levels that you can go up to bigger houses.  It also allows you to book two houses in one location at the same time, i.e. for a family reunion.



> I notice they have not been adding new locations lately in their premiere seciton. Am I right?



Surprisingly, they are not very good at keeping their public website up-to-date, so there is sometimes a long lag time.  Also, they have been making committments at some projects that are still a year away from opening, so that isn't showing up.  Latly, they have also been adding depth at current locations, which also doesn't show up on the public website.  In terms of activity the past 5 months, they have added 4 more homes in Abaco (2 Premiere, 1 Platinum, 1 Pinnacle), 3 homes in Watercolor, FL (1 in each club), 3 homes in Orlando (1 in each club), another NYC property, another Tucsany property, and entered a contract for 3 more in the Dominican Republic (at Cap Cana).  New memberships have been running 50% above goals, but I'm not sure if they lowered their 'goals' after the T&H debacle.


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## Steamboat Bill (May 20, 2007)

Bourne said:


> HCC and PE Premiere have such a considerable overlap that they are potential merger candidates.



I agree with that statement!!!

Believe it or not...I think would benefit both clubs members. HCC and PE seem to be going after the same markets vs ER going after the higher end. A merger would add a ton of new properties to both clubs.

This of course is my OPINION only and I have no evidence that this may or may not occur.


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## travelguy (May 21, 2007)

*High Country Club Merger*



Steamboat Bill said:


> I agree with that statement!!!
> 
> Believe it or not...I think would benefit both clubs members. HCC and PE seem to be going after the same markets vs ER going after the higher end. A merger would add a ton of new properties to both clubs.
> 
> This of course is my OPINION only and I have no evidence that this may or may not occur.



I don't believe that High Country Club wants, or would consider, a merger with PE for several reasons.  PE has significantly higher overhead and costs.  Remember that High Country Club was created based on a modified and improved PE business plan (ask Heath or Christian about this story next time you talk to them).

Also, High Country Club has several better exit options that they may discuss with members privately.  These exit strategies would provide a better end result for both the High Country Club investors and members.  Having said that, it's way too early for any of these DCs to do anything because they will have much more value as the DC biz model is proven by time and additional members and properties.  (IMHO, and you know I could be wrong  )


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## Steamboat Bill (May 21, 2007)

travelguy said:


> it's way too early for any of these DCs to do anything because they will have much more value as the DC biz model is proven by time and additional members and properties.



Agreed...I was just having fun....I actually want ER or Ritz Carlton to buy out HCC in the future.


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## travelguy (May 21, 2007)

*OR...*



Steamboat Bill said:


> Agreed...I was just having fun....I actually want ER or Ritz Carlton to buy out HCC in the future.



Don't forget Four Seasons or Trump!


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## Steamboat Bill (May 21, 2007)

Doug...I like your new avatar.

Is that a picture of the HCC Turks & Caicos beach chair?


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## vineyarder (May 22, 2007)

> Don't forget Four Seasons or Trump!



If my experiences with Four Seasons Aviara are any indication, you DON"T want Four Seasons to acquire HCC!


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## travelguy (May 22, 2007)

Steamboat Bill said:


> Doug...I like your new avatar.
> 
> Is that a picture of the HCC Turks & Caicos beach chair?



Bill,

I finally figured out how to use the avatar feature on TUG.  Being a former computer programming firm owner (in the ancient dBase III and FoxPro era) you'd think I would have a better handle on these things!

Yes, the picture is my beach chair at HCC Turks and Caicos.  I had the High Country Club concierge arrange the set-up of the chair and umbrella prior to my arrival.  I have also arranged for Frozen Margaritas to be delivered to the chair on the hour.  Unfortunately, I won't be IN the chair or at Turks and Caicos until December!


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## Steamboat Bill (May 22, 2007)

travelguy said:


> Yes, the picture is my beach chair at HCC Turks and Caicos.  I had the High Country Club concierge arrange the set-up of the chair and umbrella prior to my arrival.  I have also arranged for Frozen Margaritas to be delivered to the chair on the hour.  Unfortunately, I won't be IN the chair or at Turks and Caicos until December!



I am going June 9th and I will e-mail you a photo.


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## Bourne (May 22, 2007)

travelguy said:


> Bill,
> 
> I finally figured out how to use the avatar feature on TUG.  Being a former computer programming firm owner (in the ancient dBase III and FoxPro era) you'd think I would have a better handle on these things!
> 
> Yes, the picture is my beach chair at HCC Turks and Caicos.  I had the High Country Club concierge arrange the set-up of the chair and umbrella prior to my arrival.  I have also arranged for Frozen Margaritas to be delivered to the chair on the hour.  Unfortunately, I won't be IN the chair or at Turks and Caicos until December!



DBase / Foxpro ... that is what I started my career with. It has been a loooong while...


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## Steamboat Bill (May 22, 2007)

Bourne said:


> DBase / Foxpro ... that is what I started my career with. It has been a loooong while...



Lets not forget about Clarion....ah the good ole DOS days. I made a lot of $ off those programs.


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## travelguy (May 22, 2007)

Steamboat Bill said:


> Lets not forget about Clarion....ah the good ole DOS days. I made a lot of $ off those programs.



And of course "C" and Basic!!  My head hurts just thinking about those.


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