# "New" Westin Flex - Includes WPORV, WKORV, WKORVN



## DeniseM (Jan 16, 2019)

*Is this new Info?  I received it from an owner.*

*1/17/19 Update:  I have redacted some of the contents of this post.  I'm not going to say anything more about that publicly. 

----------------*

*[redacted]*

WESTIN FLEX

 Book any season at your 7 home resorts

Book any number of days 12 months in advance at your 7 home resorts
Book any size villa 12 months in advance at your 7 home resorts
Book 7 home resorts at the 12 month booking window

*Westin Flex Home resorts*

*Westin Ka’anapali Ocean Resort Villas*
*Westin Ka’anapali Ocean Resort Villas North*
*Westin Princeville Ocean Resort Villas –Kauai*
*Westin Desert Willow Villas – Palm Springs*
*Westin Mission Hills Resort & Villas – Rancho Mirage*
*Westin Riverfront Mountain Villas  - Beaver Creek CO*
*Westin Kierland – Scottsdale AZ*
[redacted]

Your Vacation Ownership Interest (VOI) has a specific Home Options currency value (also known as ownership points). There are several ways you can use your Home Options during your “Home Resort Reservation Period” (HRRP) reservation window, which is 12 - 8 months in advance of your desired check-in dates:

• Use your Home Options to reserve ANY available villa size, any time of the year, at any of your Home Resorts

• Check-in and check-out ANY day of the week

• Reserve one night up to 14 nights in a single reservation

• Hold a maximum of three active reservations per VOI or package within the current Use Year

More Info:

The Westin Flex Sales Brochure -

The Westin Flex Home Resort Guide-

The Westin Flex Home Options Chart -

The Westin Flex Quick Start Guide -

[redacted]


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## Ken555 (Jan 16, 2019)

If I sent an email out this poorly worded, I’d lose half our resulting revenue. Way to go, VSN sales for not letting marketing review this before sending! 


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## vacationtime1 (Jan 16, 2019)

So in Hawaii Vistana is going to sell Westin weeks and on the mainland it will sell Westin Flex -- for the same resorts?

Only Vistana could be this inconsistent.


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## DeniseM (Jan 16, 2019)

But, Marriott is calling the shots now...


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## Ken555 (Jan 16, 2019)

In a few years they’ll probably let you create your own flex program from any of the Westin, Sheraton, or Marriott resorts. Choose any 7 resorts and build your own Flex! 


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## TravelTime (Jan 16, 2019)

Ken555 said:


> If I sent an email out this poorly worded, I’d lose half our resulting revenue. Way to go, VSN sales for not letting marketing review this before sending!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk



I had the same reaction. This is one of the most poorly worded emails I have seen. I started to wonder if it could be sent from a scammer. I would want to verify that this is really a Westin promotion. Given that so much personal data was breached recently, I would worry that this could be a scammer. I have a Hawaii home resort but have not received this email.


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## Ken555 (Jan 16, 2019)

TravelTime said:


> I had the same reaction. This is one of the most poorly worded emails I have seen. I started to wonder if it could be sent from a scammer. I would want to verify that this is really a Westin promotion. Given that so much personal data was breached recently, I would worry that this could be a scammer. I have a Hawaii home resort but have not received this email.



No, I’m sure it’s real. This is the quality of their emails...it’s been like this for years. Sad, isn’t it?


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## controller1 (Jan 16, 2019)

Terribly worded email.  Since it had a person's name as if he/she were the only one to contact I feel this may be a rogue employee looking for a bigger commission.  I own several Vistana weeks in Hawaii and have not received this email.


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## gravitar (Jan 16, 2019)

Ken555 said:


> If I sent an email out this poorly worded, I’d lose half our resulting revenue. Way to go, VSN sales for not letting marketing review this before sending!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


I thought the same as I is reading the content. 

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## DeniseM (Jan 16, 2019)

I am 99% sure it is for real, based on the sender.


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## DannyTS (Jan 16, 2019)

if the inventory is not handled properly these programs can create a class of owners above the current owners. Hard to get weeks can become even harder to get if people that are able to book at 12 months are not bound by the Friday, Sat, Sun checkin. They can just start the booking a day earlier wiping out all available inventory for those weeks.


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## cubigbird (Jan 16, 2019)

This doesn’t seem like new info but old news?  Hasn’t VSE been trying to get people to trade in their weeks or add Westin Flex since it began???  They need deposits into the trust to fuel the machine as they can’t sell points on something they don’t own in the trust.  

Interesting that they are offering it on the mainland but not in Hawaii even though the Hawsio weeks are in Flex???


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## cubigbird (Jan 16, 2019)

DannyTS said:


> if the inventory is not handled properly these programs can create a class of owners above the current owners. Hard to get weeks can become even harder to get if people that are able to book at 12 months are not bound by the Friday, Sat, Sun checkin. They can just start the booking a day earlier wiping out all available inventory for those weeks.



I think we are already seeing this happen at places like Lagunamar as discussed on that forum.


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## DeniseM (Jan 16, 2019)

That's not the point:  The email says that _all of the Maui resorts_ are now Westin Flex *Home* Resorts.  "*Westin Flex" *is a new product.  In the past, they were asking people to trade other resorts for *Nanea *Home options.

*Westin Flex Home resorts*

*Westin Ka’anapali Ocean Resort Villas*
*Westin Ka’anapali Ocean Resort Villas North*
*Westin Princeville Ocean Resort Villas –Kauai*
*Westin Desert Willow Villas – Palm Springs*
*Westin Mission Hills Resort & Villas – Rancho Mirage*
*Westin Riverfront Mountain Villas - Beaver Creek CO*
*Westin Kierland – Scottsdale AZ*


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## DannyTS (Jan 16, 2019)

there is also a web page

https://www.vistana.com/westin-flex

It is very disappointing that Vistana is creating yet even more programs to possibly fragment the inventory even more rather than consolidating towards an integrated Marriott - Vistana program. For sure this is a step backwards.


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## Ken555 (Jan 16, 2019)

DeniseM said:


> That's not the point:  The email says that _all of the Maui resorts_ are now Westin Flex *Home* Resorts.  "*Westin Flex" *is a new product.  In the past, they were asking people to trade other resorts for *Nanea *Home options.
> 
> *Westin Flex Home resorts*
> 
> ...



Nanea is not included.


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## JIMinNC (Jan 16, 2019)

DannyTS said:


> there is also a web page
> 
> https://www.vistana.com/westin-flex
> 
> It is very disappointing that Vistana is creating yet even more programs to possibly fragment the inventory even more rather than consolidating towards an integrated Marriott - Vistana program. For sure this is a step backwards.



I think it's business as usual at Westin Vacation Club, until Marriott Vacations Worldwide determines if there is going to be any kind of consolidation between the programs, or if they are just going to operate them more or less independently. Until such time as there is some kind of consolidation or exchange program developed, they need to keep sales of the Westin products going to maintain the earnings level at the consolidated company. My understanding is that Westin Flex is not new since the merger, but was in existence prior to the merger. They are just continuing efforts to sell that program unless or until they have something else to sell.


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## DeniseM (Jan 16, 2019)

Nanea is already a flex option resort - they call them home options there.  However, I think there is some overlap because I recently saw a reservation made at WKORV-north by a Nanea owner and it was labeled as a home option reservation.  I need to research that.

_1/24/19 Update:  Further research shows that Nanea and Westin Flex do not overlap - they are separate._


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## Sicnarf (Jan 16, 2019)

DannyTS said:


> if the inventory is not handled properly these programs can create a class of owners above the current owners. Hard to get weeks can become even harder to get if people that are able to book at 12 months are not bound by the Friday, Sat, Sun checkin. They can just start the booking a day earlier wiping out all available inventory for those weeks.


Westin Flex has a separate inventory.  At this time, the Hawaii inventory for Westin Flex < 20% so Flex owners will have a difficult time getting high demand weeks.


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## DannyTS (Jan 16, 2019)

Sicnarf said:


> Westin Flex has a separate inventory.  At this time, the Hawaii inventory for Westin Flex < 20% so Flex owners will have a difficult time getting high demand weeks.


yes but the more programs they create the more fragmented the inventory. The balance can also change in the future.


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## TravelTime (Jan 16, 2019)

I totally agree with DannyTS. I am perplexed as to why Marriott is allowing this unless it is a rogue undertaking. I think the more they fragment with these mini-programs, the harder it will be for Marriott to develop a new integrated program that will be fair to all existing owners.


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## JIMinNC (Jan 16, 2019)

TravelTime said:


> I totally agree with DannyTS. I am perplexed as to why Marriott is allowing this unless it is a rogue undertaking. I think the more they fragment with these mini-programs, the harder it will be for Marriott to develop a new integrated program that will be fair to all existing owners.



As I noted above, Westin Flex is not new. It was in existence prior to the merger with Marriott Vacations Worldwide. Until or unless they have something new to sell, Westin has to keep selling their existing products to maintain the revenue stream from that side of the business and preserve the earning potential of the combined company.


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## TravelTime (Jan 16, 2019)

JIMinNC said:


> As I noted above, Westin Flex is not new. It was in existence prior to the merger with Marriott Vacations Worldwide. Until or unless they have something new to sell, Westin has to keep selling their exiting products to maintain the revenue stream from that side of the business and preserve the earning potential of the combined company.



Okay I get that now. I guess it is business as usual.


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## CalGalTraveler (Jan 16, 2019)

I don't understand Flex. Perhaps because I have never been exposed to the program but this makes no sense to me as a Hawaii owner.  I already have 12 month reservations for the highest demand resorts in HI, so why would I want to dilute that with the mainland resorts?  I already can use SOs to get a mainland resort - not sure what 12 months would buy vs. 8.

Unless it would lower the MF for Hawaii owners because you are diluting with lower MF mainland offerings, I don't see why someone who owns in HI would buy this.


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## DannyTS (Jan 16, 2019)

CalGalTraveler said:


> I don't understand Flex. Perhaps because I have never been exposed to the program but this makes no sense to me as a Hawaii owner.  I already have 12 month reservations for the highest demand resorts in HI, so why would I want to dilute that with the mainland resorts?  I already can use SOs to get a mainland resort - not sure what 12 months would buy vs. 8.


maybe to get access to booking a day or two before the week owners.


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## Henry M. (Jan 16, 2019)

I own at WKORV and WKORVN and haven’t received any information about this.


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## controller1 (Jan 16, 2019)

I may have not received this email because my WKORVN weeks are OF and WKORVN and WKORV OF are not part of the Flex program.  Therefore, if an OF owner traded in for Flex, it would be very difficult to get an OF villa during anything other than low season since reservations could not be made in the 12-8 month window.


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## Sicnarf (Jan 16, 2019)

Just like Sheraton Flex, Westin Flex is a pure point system for select number of properties.  I "upgraded" a bunch of my Sheraton Vistana units to flex which allowed  me 9-12 booking to several beach and ski locations.


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## Denise L (Jan 17, 2019)

I didn't receive the email either and we own at WKORV.  Whew.  It was hard to read, looks like spam, but is not.  This whole program sounds terrible.  I like the original days when all resorts were mandatory and MFs were $1200.


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## Ken555 (Jan 17, 2019)

Denise L said:


> I like the original days when all resorts were mandatory and MFs were $1200.



If only those days ever existed... 


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## vacationtime1 (Jan 17, 2019)

Vistana/Sheraton/Westin has brought us mandatory resorts, voluntary resorts, HomeOptions, StarOptions, FlexOptions, Adventuras, and a Florida Club.  It is a company with no long-term planning.  Their internal confusion is what has led to all of this category confusion.

The inventory will be completely fragmented, but each of the above categories is a separate inventory pool with separate (and proportionate) ownership.  No one's chances of getting a specific week is adversely affected, except the numbers may change from 5,100 owners wanting the same 100 units to 510 owners wanting the same 10 units (the owners/units ratio remaining 51:1).

If I didn't like some of these resorts a lot, I would sell.  But I do.


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## DannyTS (Jan 17, 2019)

vacationtime1 said:


> The inventory will be completely fragmented, but each of the above categories is a separate inventory pool with separate (and proportionate) ownership.  No one's chances of getting a specific week is adversely affected, except the numbers may change from 5,100 owners wanting the same 100 units to 510 owners wanting the same 10 units (the owners/units ratio remaining 51:1).



The more such products the more chances the inventory is not handled properly. Not necessarily intentionally but because we are all humans and mistakes do occur. The people programming have to deal with units in different seasons, sizes, views, phases and probably others. We know that Vistana has the ability to allocate the weeks as it pleases: it may give one product  more availability in a particular week and it leaves another product with more weeks in other times of the same season. The issue at  Lagunamar where in the last 3-4 years regular platinum plus owners have not been able to book 51 and 52 (even if they  are entitled to but the system always shows zero inventory when the window opens)  tells me that either Vistana is getting them all or that the few 51-52 weeks available are allocated (improperly) exclusively to one of these new products like Westin Aventuras. This is wrong either way.


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## cubigbird (Jan 17, 2019)

DannyTS said:


> The more such products the more chances the inventory is not handled properly. Not necessarily intentionally but because we are all humans and mistakes do occur. The people programming have to deal with units in different seasons, sizes, views, phases and probably others. We know that Vistana has the ability to allocate the weeks as it pleases: it may give one product  more availability in a particular week and it leaves another product with more weeks in other times of the same season. The issue at  Lagunamar where in the last 3-4 years regular platinum plus owners have not been able to book 51 and 52 (even if they  are entitled to but the system always shows zero inventory when the window opens)  tells me that either Vistana is getting them all or that the few 51-52 weeks available are allocated (improperly) exclusively to one of these new products like Westin Aventuras.



Perhaps that now may be the point?  Maybe VSE is trying to manufacture such inventory chaos so it’s easier for them to cherry pick the prime weeks for their rental purposes???  When it’s not strait forward it’s way easier to exploit it and abuse??


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## canesfan (Jan 17, 2019)

It’s interesting that they are advertising that you won’t be able to buy Westin Flex in Hawaii. Are Nanea sales that slow that they are only going to push that?

Last March they tried to sell us Nanea, then Westin Flex and once it was obvious we would never buy points they offered us a deeded unit at WKORVN. The salesperson was very surprised when I brought up the Westin Flex inventory in Maui having a lot of IV Building 4. He used the analogy of selling potato soup and throwing a few pieces of steak in there calling it steak soup. 

We own at North and haven’t received an email but it’s not a product I have any interest in. I’m not giving up my deeds just to be able not to make a 7 day reservation on a weekend. So far I’ve had no problem adding on days to extend when I’ve wanted at 8 months, during whale season.


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## DeniseM (Jan 17, 2019)

_1/24/19 Update:  Further research shows that Nanea and Westin Flex do not overlap - they are separate.

Incorrect reservation example redacted._


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## CalGalTraveler (Jan 17, 2019)

controller1 said:


> I may have not received this email because my WKORVN weeks are OF and WKORVN and WKORV OF are not part of the Flex program.  Therefore, if an OF owner traded in for Flex, it would be very difficult to get an OF villa during anything other than low season since reservations could not be made in the 12-8 month window.



I never received this either. We own OF.

Why would anyone buy HI IV and pay the high MF if you could buy mainland and participate in Flex?  I am assuming the MF would be lower because the nosebleed high HI MF would be diluted with lower mainland MF.


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## controller1 (Jan 17, 2019)

DeniseM said:


> Here is the reservation I was talking about - it was made in September with *Nanea Home options.  *
> 
> This is the point:  This is a *home resort reservation*, made with Nanea Home Options, at *WKORV-N*, more then 9 months before check-in.  It is not a Staroption reservation.  So that means that Westin Flex that includes _all of the Maui resorts_ has been in place at least since September - but it wasn't publicly disclosed.
> 
> ...




Quick question: how can the departure date be prior to the arrival date?

The above is not how my Westin Flex Home Resort Reservation looks for WKORVN.  My reservation has the notation "Reservation Type: Home Resort Reservation" directly under Guest Name.  Also, under Villa Type it states "2 Bedroom Lockoff Villa, Islandview".


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## DeniseM (Jan 17, 2019)

> Quick question: how can the departure date be prior to the arrival date?



Sorry for the confusion - I was trying to figure out the best way to edit it and you probably saw the previous version, before I posted the final version.



> The above is not how my Westin Flex Home Resort Reservation looks for WKORVN.



Are you saying that you used *Nanea Flex Options* to make a WKORV-N reservation?


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## controller1 (Jan 17, 2019)

DeniseM said:


> [redacted - because I edited my post.]
> 
> Are you saying that you used *Nanea Flex Options* to make a WKORV-N reservation?



No, I used Westin Flex.  All I am saying is that a Home Resort Reservation will have the notation "Reservation Type: Home Resort Reservation" listed under the guest name and will be specific as to "Islandview" since that view is what is enrolled in the Flex program.

Additionally, I just attempted to make a Home Resort Reservation at WKORVN during January 2020 using my Nanea Home Options and the system would not allow it. Availability was there but I could not assign the Nanea Home Options towards the reservation.

Perhaps this was an IT glitch that has been corrected. If I were the reservation holder, I would be concerned about the validity of the reservation.

Did you actually see a screen print of the reservation?


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## bogey21 (Jan 17, 2019)

How much do they want for this?

George


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## DeniseM (Jan 17, 2019)

_1/24/19 Update:  Further research shows that Nanea and Westin Flex do not overlap - they are separate._

This is a different kind of reservation - it uses *Nanea Home Options* to reserve WKORV-N during the home resort reservation period - that is my point.



> Did you actually see a screen print of the reservation?



I'm holding the actual reservation in my hands - it is 100% Legit.


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## DeniseM (Jan 17, 2019)

controller1 - Is the Westin Flex program that you bought into the same one that is outlined in the letter that I posted above?  Where did you buy it?


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## CalGalTraveler (Jan 17, 2019)

DannyTS said:


> maybe to get access to booking a day or two before the week owners.



It sounds like they have the same 12 month window as weeks owners.


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## DavidnRobin (Jan 17, 2019)

DeniseM said:


> This is a different kind of reservation - it uses *Nanea Home Options* to reserve WKORV-N during the home resort reservation period - that is my point.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm holding the actual reservation in my hands - it is 100% Legit.



I am a bit confused - if Nanea is included in Flex - and some of WKORV/N villas are included in Flex, then why couldn’t WKORV/N Flex be reserved at 8-12 months out using Nanea?

Regardless, w/o some type of purposeful misdirection by VSE/VSN, they cannot reserve more villas than owned in Flex. They can’t legally use the deeded pool in Flex.

Can they grab the good weeks? Yep. Supposedly they have always done this.

Glad I own OF.



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## DannyTS (Jan 17, 2019)

CalGalTraveler said:


> It sounds like they have the same 12 month window as weeks owners.


they do but they are not restricted to weekend check in. That means they can go a day before a regular owner for a Thu-Thu reservation. That week will obviously no longer be available to the regular week owner. If they do not manage the inventory properly (and there is no evidence that they do) they have in fact created 2 classes owners not only in terms of flexibility but also in terms of priority.


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## DeniseM (Jan 17, 2019)

_1/24/19 Update:  Further research shows that Nanea and Westin Flex do not overlap - they are separate._

Hi Dave - Nanea Flex and Westin Flex are supposedly 2 different programs.  If you look at the Westin Flex list of resorts in the first post, Nanea is not included.  However, now it appears that they do indeed overlap, or perhaps, they are the same program, and Vistana just failed to disclose that.


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## CalGalTraveler (Jan 17, 2019)

DannyTS said:


> they do but they are not restricted to weekend check in. That means they can go a day before a regular owner for a Thu-Thu reservation. That week will obviously no longer be available to the regular week owner. If they do not manage the inventory properly (and there is no evidence that they do) they have in fact created 2 classes owners not only in terms of flexibility but also in terms of priority.



That makes sense but I was under the impression that it is separate inventory than weeks owners.  For example, they would not have access to OF inventory.


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## DavidnRobin (Jan 17, 2019)

DannyTS said:


> they do but they are not restricted to weekend check in. That means they can go a day before a regular owner for a Thu-Thu reservation. That week will obviously no longer be available to the regular week owner. If they do not manage the inventory properly (and there is no evidence that they do) they have in fact created 2 classes owners not only in terms of flexibility but also in terms of priority.



They can do something illegally I assume, but not sure why they would as they do not need to (beyond the legality).

Flex reservations need to come from Flex inventory, and deeded reservations need to come from deeded inventory.

Beyond VSE/VSN complicity in an illegal act (doubtful) - Flex reservations can do what they want.

The danger in Flex is that people wanting to go to HI may end up in a non-HI Resort especially if they want to reserve HI in high season, or not reserving at 12 months out.



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## DavidnRobin (Jan 17, 2019)

DeniseM said:


> Hi Dave - Nanea Flex and Westin Flex are supposedly 2 different programs.  If you look at the Westin Flex list of resorts in the first post, Nanea is not included.  However, now it appears that they do indeed overlap, or perhaps, they are the same program, and Vistana just failed to disclose that.



I am not sure as I did not pursue Nanea, but what is Nanea Flex? 
By Nanea Flex - do you mean just Nanea ownership without the ability to make a Flex reservation using Flex inventory at another Flex Resort ?  Otherwise, what is the Nanea Flex part other than just normal  Home Resort ownership at Nanea?

If a Nanea Owner can reserve WKORV/N Flex inventory- that opens space for a Nanea Reservation for Flex Owners (and I assume SO exchangers if available).

Am I missing something?


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## DannyTS (Jan 17, 2019)

DavidnRobin said:


> They can do something illegally I assume, but not sure why they would as they do not need to (beyond the legality).
> 
> Flex reservations need to come from Flex inventory, and deeded reservations need to come from deeded inventory.
> 
> ...


As I said before, VSN has a lot of flexibility in allocating specific weeks of the year to specific products within the same season.

So why exactly would be *illegal* (a too strong word i find for this case) for example  if Westin Aventuras booked all 51-52 weeks at Lagunamar while the regular owners  booked more of the other weeks of the year. The total number of weeks per season and per product would be ok, right?


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## DeniseM (Jan 17, 2019)

_1/24/19 Update:  Further research shows that Nanea and Westin Flex do not overlap - they are separate._



> I am not sure as I did not pursue Nanea, but what is Nanea Flex?
> By Nanea Flex - do you mean just Nanea ownership without the ability to make a Flex reservation using Flex inventory at another Flex Resort ? Otherwise, what is the Nanea Flex part other than just normal Home Resort ownership at Nanea?
> 
> If a Nanea Owner can reserve WKORV/N Flex inventory- that opens space for a Nanea Reservation for Flex Owners (and I assume SO exchangers if available).
> ...



Nanea was only sold as Home Options (flex points.)  They didn't sell deeded weeks, and the reservation rules and use rules are different than for a deeded week.  

My point is that it appears that Nanea Home Options and Westin Flex Options may be one and the same or interchangeable.


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## Ken555 (Jan 17, 2019)

DannyTS said:


> they do but they are not restricted to weekend check in. That means they can go a day before a regular owner for a Thu-Thu reservation. That week will obviously no longer be available to the regular week owner. If they do not manage the inventory properly (and there is no evidence that they do) they have in fact created 2 classes owners not only in terms of flexibility but also in terms of priority.



FYI, we had the same concern some years ago when they removed the Fri/Sat/Sun checkin or out requirement from StarOption reservations. For many years (and still do) I would start a stay on Sunday but leave the following Wed or Thur, then they changed it to permit arrival and departure on any day or week, which opened up the ability to have a single night stay on any day (and thus all the posts on staying at Harborside when on a cruise to gain access to Atlantis...). Having them extend this to the 12 month reservations for non deed weekly stays was predictable. 

Since they have been able to manage inventory for any day checkin and out for SO reservations, I’m sure they can handle this latest change as well. 

But, as been said for many years, the lack of transparency in regards to which weeks are available and which reservation system (deeds, Flex, SO, whatever) has them is only to the benefit of the management. 


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## DavidnRobin (Jan 17, 2019)

DannyTS said:


> As I said before, VSN has a lot of flexibility in allocating specific weeks of the year to specific products within the same season.
> 
> So why exactly would be *illegal* (a too strong word i find for this case) for example  if Westin Aventuras booked all 51-52 weeks at Lagunamar while the regular owners  booked more of the other weeks of the year. The total number of weeks per season and per product would be ok, right?



It is illegal to effectively sell more than you own.  Meaning - they cannot reserve more Flex than they own.

I can’t speak to a Westin Adventuras and their seasons/weeks and speculation on potential misuse - perhaps it would be better to compare Westin Flex that is the topic of this thread as HI has one season with special ownership of weeks 51-52.

Maybe a speculation if VSE/VSN grabbed all of the whale watching weeks and summer weeks leaving the crap weeks left to deeded owners?
That is a lot of inventory to hold...


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## lizap (Jan 17, 2019)

I find it incredibly poor form for a company to take a product, that people bought in good faith, repackage it, try to resell it to existing owners at a higher price. What you have is a mature product they can't make $ on, and to make more $, they are asking existing owners to pony up more $. At some point, it will impact existing owners, if they want to trade internally. Resale prices are already being affected.  Hyatt resale prices are being impacted now.  I know of a couple WKV Plat. plus units that have sold for around 12k.


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## controller1 (Jan 17, 2019)

DeniseM said:


> Nanea was only sold as Home Options (flex points.)  They didn't sell deeded weeks, and the reservation rules and use rules are different than for a deeded week.
> 
> My point is that it appears that Nanea Home Options and Westin Flex Options may be one and the same or interchangeable.



I realize that is your point, but as an owner of both Nanea and Westin Flex my experiment I conducted just a hour or so ago does not allow me to make a Home Resort Reservation at WKORVN using Nanea Home Options. I could only choose from the Westin Flex Options bucket.

That's why I would be concerned about the reservation you have in hand. You say it is legit but is it only that way due to an IT programming error? If so, is there any possibility the reservation will be cancelled by Vistana or discovered as non-legit prior to the party arriving in Maui?


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## DeniseM (Jan 17, 2019)

controller1 - Is the Westin Flex that you own, exactly the same as the program described in my first post?   When and where did you buy it?


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## WahooWah (Jan 17, 2019)

controller1 said:


> Terribly worded email.  Since it had a person's name as if he/she were the only one to contact I feel this may be a rogue employee looking for a bigger commission.  I own several Vistana weeks in Hawaii and have not received this email.



Definitely an ambitious sales rep.  Not a company sanctioned email at all.


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## DannyTS (Jan 17, 2019)

DavidnRobin said:


> It is illegal to effectively sell more than you own.  Meaning - they cannot reserve more Flex than they own.
> 
> I can’t speak to a Westin Adventuras and their seasons/weeks and speculation on potential misuse - perhaps it would be better to compare Westin Flex that is the topic of this thread as HI has one season with special ownership of weeks 51-52.
> 
> ...


I never said that anyone reserved more than they owned as a total number of weeks per year. What i said was that more of the more sought after weeks of any particular season may end up being booked by those that can book earlier even if the total number of weeks per season per program may be ok.


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## vacationtime1 (Jan 17, 2019)

DeniseM said:


> Nanea was only sold as Home Options (flex points.)  They didn't sell deeded weeks, and the reservation rules and use rules are different than for a deeded week.
> 
> *My point is that it appears that Nanea Home Options and Westin Flex Options may be one and the same or interchangeable.*



This should be terrifying news to those who bought 81000 Nanea HomeOptions to use for the purpose of reserving one bedroom units there.  That reservation is difficult enough already; if everyone who buys FlexOptions can also compete at the twelve month mark for the limited number of those units, that reservation will be virtually impossible for Nanea owners.


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## controller1 (Jan 17, 2019)

DeniseM said:


> controller1 - Is the Westin Flex that you own, exactly the same as the program described in my first post?   When and where did you buy it?



Yes.

It was purchased in June 2018 at Westin Riverside in Avon, CO.  I had made a mistake and purchased Sheraton Flex right after it came out without realizing I had no desire to visit most of the home resorts in Sheraton Flex. I traded in the Sheraton Flex for Westin Flex and used my knowledge of TUG to decrease the new money.


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## DeniseM (Jan 17, 2019)

controller1 - are you being evasive?


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## controller1 (Jan 17, 2019)

DeniseM said:


> controller1 - are you being evasive?



?????


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## DeniseM (Jan 17, 2019)

You don't seem to want to share any of the details about when and where you bought it.


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## controller1 (Jan 17, 2019)

DeniseM said:


> You don't seem to want to share any of the details about when and where you bought it.



Have you read my post directly above your post accusing me of being evasive?  What else do you want to know? I don't remember the salesman's name or the exact time I signed the document.


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## DeniseM (Jan 17, 2019)

My apologies - I asked you twice and you didn't answer the first time, and then I missed the 2nd part of your answer.

Have you posted about Westin Flex on TUG before?


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## lizap (Jan 17, 2019)

What's really sad is eventually the same thing is likely going to happen to those buying into the new FLEX. It's a vicious cycle.


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## Ken555 (Jan 17, 2019)

Happy with my WKV Plat Plus, and have no reason to change. If anything, I’d buy another WKV if I wanted more SOs...


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## controller1 (Jan 17, 2019)

DeniseM said:


> My apologies - I asked you twice and you didn't answer the first time, and then I missed the 2nd part of your answer.
> 
> Have you posted about Westin Flex on TUG before?



Sorry, I must have missed Post #42.  I have posted on TUG about owning Westin Flex before. I had not gone into detail as to why I own Westin Flex. I'm willing to share info to help the TUG community.  What else would be helpful to know?


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## DeniseM (Jan 17, 2019)

Thanks controller1 - I must have missed your posts about Westin Flex, or "assumed" it was one of the other flex programs already in existence, because it went right over my head.


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## controller1 (Jan 17, 2019)

DeniseM said:


> Thanks controller1 - I must have missed your posts about Westin Flex, or "assumed" it was one of the other flex programs already in existence, because it went right over my head.



DeniseM - What is the date on the original email received by the owner?  I ask because the literature attached to the email is dated. It does not include The Westin Kierland as one of the seven Home Resorts?  Also, is the title of this thread the title of the email because I don't see in the email anything about "Includes all Maui Resorts" which causes me to think this email may have an original date prior to Nanea opening.

Thanks.


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## DeniseM (Jan 17, 2019)

The info is brand new. I will edit the title.  WKV is on the list:

*Westin Flex Home resorts*

*Westin Ka’anapali Ocean Resort Villas*
*Westin Ka’anapali Ocean Resort Villas North*
*Westin Princeville Ocean Resort Villas –Kauai*
*Westin Desert Willow Villas – Palm Springs*
*Westin Mission Hills Resort & Villas – Rancho Mirage*
*Westin Riverfront Mountain Villas - Beaver Creek CO*
*Westin Kierland – Scottsdale AZ*


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## controller1 (Jan 17, 2019)

Doesn't make sense they would attach dated sales material.  But then, the poorly worded email is . . .


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## cubigbird (Jan 17, 2019)

DeniseM said:


> Nanea was only sold as Home Options (flex points.)  They didn't sell deeded weeks, and the reservation rules and use rules are different than for a deeded week.
> 
> My point is that it appears that Nanea Home Options and Westin Flex Options may be one and the same or interchangeable.



Denise if this is true then WSJ Sunset Bay should see entry into the flex.  So far it’s being sold as a Home Option resort only.


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## DeniseM (Jan 17, 2019)

I have to do more research on that - I'm trying to figure it out myself - I will get back to you.

_1/24/19 Update:  Further research shows that Nanea and Westin Flex do not overlap - they are separate._


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## controller1 (Jan 17, 2019)

DeniseM said:


> The info is brand new. I will edit the title.  WKV is on the list:
> 
> *Westin Flex Home resorts*
> 
> ...



Look at the attachments.  All of them are sales materials dated 2017 and they do not include Westin Kierland.


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## PamMo (Jan 17, 2019)

It's my understanding that OF units at WKORV and WKORVN are not part of the Westin Flex program - is that correct? We went to an abbreviated Owner Update last year, and were told we should enroll one of our WKORV oceanview units in Flex to get all the benefits(???). I was surprised oceanfront units could not be enrolled, because they'd be popular with Flex owners. It didn't make any sense to us at the time, but I really should have paid more attention.


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## controller1 (Jan 17, 2019)

PamMo said:


> It's my understanding that OF units at WKORV and WKORVN are not part of the Westin Flex program - is that correct? We went to an abbreviated Owner Update last year, and were told we should enroll one of our WKORV oceanview units in Flex to get all the benefits(???). I was surprised oceanfront units could not be enrolled, because they'd be popular with Flex owners. It didn't make any sense to us at the time, but I really should have paid more attention.



That is correct. WKORV and WKORVN OF units are not in the Westin Flex program.  Islandview units are what is listed for the Westin Flex program for those two resorts.


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## lizap (Jan 18, 2019)

PamMo said:


> It's my understanding that OF units at WKORV and WKORVN are not part of the Westin Flex program - is that correct? We went to an abbreviated Owner Update last year, and were told we should enroll one of our WKORV oceanview units in Flex to get all the benefits(???). I was surprised oceanfront units could not be enrolled, because they'd be popular with Flex owners. It didn't make any sense to us at the time, but I really should have paid more attention.



My guess is it's only a matter of time before ALL units, including OF, are included in FLEX.


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## cubigbird (Jan 18, 2019)

I wouldn’t be surprised to at some point see all Westin timeshares in Flex, then way down the road one gigantic combined flex program of all resorts in the system - Sheratons, Mexico etc.  The sales machine has to be fed somehow and they always have to sell “something unique and new.”  New resorts aren’t coming online in the US so new inventory just doesn’t exist so the flipping has to continue

In the end, I own where I want to go.  We use our weeks during the home resort reservation period.  There is too much going on and too much risk to be buying traders right now.


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## DavidnRobin (Jan 18, 2019)

DannyTS said:


> I never said that anyone reserved more than they owned as a total number of weeks per year. What i said was that more of the more sought after weeks of any particular season may end up being booked by those that can book earlier even if the total number of weeks per season per program may be ok.



hmmm... I never said you said that.
I was referring to VSE.


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## CalGalTraveler (Jan 18, 2019)

cubigbird said:


> In the end, I own where I want to go.  We use our weeks during the home resort reservation period.  There is too much going on and too much risk to be buying traders right now.



+1 Given all the unknowns with Marriott and their history of squeezing as much as possible profit-wise from owners, I agree that buying traders right now is risky until we know their plans. They can never take away your deeded home resort rights and if they abuse the system there will be lawsuits.

Of course cost of an SVV Bella or Key West is minimal so the risk is small. However if you would not be happy staying there if that is your only option then you may get stranded.


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## TravelTime (Jan 18, 2019)

The way Vistana is still pushing these Flex programs makes me wonder if MVC will keep the 2 systems. Perhaps there will be an umbrella program over both systems that allow people to exchange to/from both systems.


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## vacationtime1 (Jan 18, 2019)

TravelTime said:


> The way Vistana is still pushing these Flex programs makes me wonder if MVC will keep the 2 systems. *Perhaps there will be an umbrella program over both systems that allow people to exchange to/from both systems.*



Perhaps, but that particular move would require Vistana to create and manage a third inventory pool -- one for WestinFlex, one for SheratonFlex, and one for those who enrolled in the umbrella program covering them both.  Because those who don't enroll (i.e. those who choose not to pay an enrollment fee) are still legally entitled to a proportionate amount of the WestinFlex or SheratonFlex units (i.e. the units that were not enrolled).  And remember that WestinFlex and SheratonFlex are already umbrella programs including both points owners and weeks owners who transferred their units at resorts with underlying weeks.

Giving the multiplicity of Vistana programs --  WestinFlex, SheratonFlex, HomeOptions, mandatory units, voluntary units purchased developer, voluntary units purchased on the secondary market, Adventuras, and the Florida Club -- a Marriott-wide umbrella program will be devilishly complicated.  I suppose if they actually create one, the arbitrage possibilities resulting from any new program will be fascinating (and will be analyzed to death here).


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## DeniseM (Jan 18, 2019)

Hi controller1 - Yes, that's interesting, but the date on this offer is 1/16/19, so not sure what's up with that.


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## dioxide45 (Jan 18, 2019)

JIMinNC said:


> As I noted above, Westin Flex is not new. It was in existence prior to the merger with Marriott Vacations Worldwide. Until or unless they have something new to sell, Westin has to keep selling their existing products to maintain the revenue stream from that side of the business and preserve the earning potential of the combined company.



Correct, the Trust was created way back in December 2017 with some conveyances coming shortly thereafter.

https://tugbbs.com/forums/index.php?threads/new-westin-flex.266793/page-5#post-2088482


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## dioxide45 (Jan 18, 2019)

If one is adventurous enough to look and see what inventory is in the trust, go to the Orange County Comptroller's website and enter "flex collection llc" in to the "Either Party" section and uncheck the box so you can select certain document types and pick only _Notice_ and _Agreement_. You will then be presented with search results that are the separate conveyances of weeks to the trust. There are over 90 of them, not sure if Nanea is in there. Also not sure where they created the Nanea trust program.


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## steve b (Jan 23, 2019)

what is the trade in value of sheraton flex to a developer westin flex purchase and what is the current pricing?  Also is the developer accepting the westin mission hills as trade in towards a westin flex purchase?


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## triangulum33 (Jan 24, 2019)

This is a long thread with some twist and turns.
Can someone tell me if anything has changed for me to use our ownership at WKORN 12mo or <8mo out?


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## Robotpedlr (Jan 24, 2019)

triangulum33 said:


> This is a long thread with some twist and turns.
> Can someone tell me if anything has changed for me to use our ownership at WKORN 12mo or <8mo out?



Nothing changed for you (or anyone else that sticks with their current ownership).... just new options for others that move to Flex.


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## DavidnRobin (Jan 24, 2019)

steve b said:


> what is the trade in value of sheraton flex to a developer westin flex purchase and what is the current pricing?  Also is the developer accepting the westin mission hills as trade in towards a westin flex purchase?



1) Too complex to easily answer
2) Likely


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## DeniseM (Jan 24, 2019)

I learned a few new things about Westin Flex from a reliable source:

-They aren't selling Westin Flex in Hawaii yet, because they aren't registered to sell it in Hawaii.

-Vistana/Marriott has no plans to merge the various Flex programs.

-Nanea and Westin Flex are separate programs - they could not combine them because of the way Nanea was originally deeded.

-They hope to add part of WSJ to Westin Flex in the future.


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## DavidnRobin (Jan 24, 2019)

DeniseM said:


> -Nanea and Westin Flex are separate programs - they could not combine them because of the way Nanea was originally deeded.



How does this fit with someone’s claim they used Nanea HR options to book WKORVN Flex at 12 months?




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## DeniseM (Jan 24, 2019)

DavidnRobin said:


> How does this fit with someone’s claim they used Nanea HR options to book WKORVN Flex at 12 months?



I'm not sure - I have to look into that further.


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## DavidnRobin (Jan 24, 2019)

DeniseM said:


> I'm not sure - I have to look into that further.


Perhaps it is the common theme of not knowing what one owns?


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## DeniseM (Jan 24, 2019)

DavidnRobin said:


> Perhaps it is the common theme of not knowing what one owns?



No - I think it's my mistake  - I was unaware that Westin Flex existed at the time, and I made an incorrect assumption.  I now believe that the owner owns Westin Flex, and I need to verify that with them.


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## controller1 (Jan 24, 2019)

DeniseM said:


> I now believe that the owner owns Westin Flex, and I need to verify that with them.



In reviewing everything, that makes sense.


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## cubigbird (Jan 24, 2019)

DeniseM said:


> I learned a few new things about Westin Flex from a reliable source:
> 
> -They aren't selling Westin Flex in Hawaii yet, because they aren't registered to sell it in Hawaii.
> 
> ...



Denise-

What phase of WSJ could be added - Sunset Bay???  They are currently Home options like Nanea.  I assume that it would be separate inventory being Flex.  As an owner of that resort, I would be upset to compete for 12 months usage.

On a related note, adding WSJ will certainly drive up MFs further in Westin Flex given the already high MFs at WSJ.


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## controller1 (Jan 24, 2019)

cubigbird said:


> Denise-
> 
> What phase of WSJ could be added - Sunset Bay???  They are currently Home options like Nanea.  I assume that it would be separate inventory being Flex.  As an owner of that resort, I would be upset to compete for 12 months usage.
> 
> On a related note, adding WSJ will certainly drive up MFs further in Westin Flex given the already high MFs at WSJ.



As has been stated repeatedly, you will not be competing.  Each inventory will be in a separate bucket.  You will only be competing with the owners with who you are currently competing.


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## DeniseM (Jan 24, 2019)

My source did not know what phase.  You wouldn't really compete for 12 mo. usage, because there would be 2 buckets of inventory:  Flex Option and Deeded weeks.  The Flex Option owners could only reserve Flex Option inventory - they can't access the deeded weeks.  My source also verified this.


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## DavidnRobin (Jan 24, 2019)

I think WSJ-CV also sold HR ‘options/points’ based on season and villa type - similar to SB - but forgot what differentiated them. I am sure someone here knows.

Why couldn’t any inventory for WSJ be converted to Flex as long as it is in a separate Flex pool (or any resort really).  Why not? They own it - as long as the MF payment are equivalent, why would the HOA care?  They are controlling inventory owned by them, or surrendered to them (for whatever reason) — as long as it is a separate pool from non-Flex weeks.

Perhaps Flex could actually help some HOAs - especially ones with low season weeks. 


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## dioxide45 (Jan 24, 2019)

DeniseM said:


> They hope to add part of WSJ to Westin Flex in the future.





cubigbird said:


> What phase of WSJ could be added - Sunset Bay??? They are currently Home options like Nanea. I assume that it would be separate inventory being Flex. As an owner of that resort, I would be upset to compete for 12 months usage.





DavidnRobin said:


> Why couldn’t any inventory for WSJ be converted to Flex as long as it is in a separate Flex pool (or any resort really). Why not? They own it - as long as the MF payment are equivalent, why would the HOA care? They are controlling inventory owned by them, or surrendered to them (for whatever reason) — as long as it is a separate pool from non-Flex weeks.
> 
> Perhaps Flex could actually help some HOAs - especially ones with low season weeks.


I suspect that it would only be deeded weeks from phases that are weeks that could be added to Westin Flex. Marriott's Frenchman's Cove weeks are in the DC trust, so no reason Vistana can't do the same. I don't think they could add inventory from those HomeOption phases, just like they can't add Nanea. It will take time to get St John weeks in there. It took Marriott a couple years before they started conveying St Thomas weeks to their DC trust.



DeniseM said:


> -They aren't selling Westin Flex in Hawaii yet, because they aren't registered to sell it in Hawaii.


So it is really just a matter of time before they start selling Flex in Hawaii. Better buy those weeks now while you can still get them.


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## dioxide45 (Jan 24, 2019)

DeniseM said:


> -Vistana/Marriott has no plans to merge the various Flex programs.


I don't see how they could merge them in a tangible way. They are each setup as separate trusts, including Nanea and phases at WSJ. They of course all come together in VSN at 8 months. The only thing Marriott could do is provide some ratio to DC points to allow access to Marriott inventory.


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## critterchick (Feb 15, 2019)

DeniseM said:


> I learned a few new things about Westin Flex from a reliable source:
> 
> -They aren't selling Westin Flex in Hawaii yet, because they aren't registered to sell it in Hawaii



They are indeed selling Westin Flex in Hawaii. We traded in some Nanea options for Westin Flex in December. We also traded in our deeded ownership in Princeville (sorry, I’m not fluent in the abbreviations yet) but rescinded that part of the transaction. I’m afraid we killed a tree in the process of doing the documentation twice!

So far we’ve been able to reserve 12 months out (Saturday check-in) in Kaanapali south for late January and President’s Day weekend next year. Had to pounce at 9:00 PST - last night was a nail-biter as the system kept balking. And no luck with a 1BR at Nanea.


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## DeniseM (Feb 15, 2019)

That's interesting - were you physically *in* Hawaii when you purchased Westin Flex?


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## taterhed (Feb 15, 2019)

critterchick said:


> They are indeed selling Westin Flex in Hawaii. We traded in some Nanea options for Westin Flex in December. We also traded in our deeded ownership in Princeville (sorry, I’m not fluent in the abbreviations yet) but rescinded that part of the transaction. I’m afraid we killed a tree in the process of doing the documentation twice!
> 
> So far we’ve been able to reserve 12 months out (Saturday check-in) in Kaanapali south for late January and President’s Day weekend next year. Had to pounce at 9:00 PST - last night was a nail-biter as the system kept balking. And no luck with a 1BR at Nanea.



You did great....Princeville is WPORV, Kaanapali is WKORV and North is WKORVN and Nanea is commonly used.  II designation is WNA (Nanea) KAA (Kaanapali)  KAN (Kaanapali North) WPV (Princeville).

MF's?  Points?  Price?  Thanks.


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## critterchick (Feb 15, 2019)

DeniseM said:


> That's interesting - were you physically *in* Hawaii when you purchased Westin Flex?



Yes, we were.



taterhed said:


> You did great....Princeville is WPORV, Kaanapali is WKORV and North is WKORVN and Nanea is commonly used.  II designation is WNA (Nanea) KAA (Kaanapali)  KAN (Kaanapali North) WPV (Princeville).
> 
> MF's?  Points?  Price?  Thanks.



Thanks!  I can’t remember recall the numbers at this point. I will look them up..I know the MFs went down overall.


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## DeniseM (Feb 15, 2019)

That's interesting - did you deal with a local Hawaii sales person, or with corporate sales over the phone?


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## canesfan (Feb 15, 2019)

Last March we were offered Westin Flex in Maui after declining Nanea. We were also offered a deeded WKORVN unit after declining Westin Flex. 
They will sell whatever they can.


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## DeniseM (Feb 15, 2019)

The reason that I ask is that I have been told on good authority that Vistana is not licensed to sell this product in Hawaii yet, so it can only be purchased from corporate sales.


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## DavidnRobin (Feb 15, 2019)

I have the number of a Maui salesperson if you want to contact them and ask.

I believe they tried to sell me Westin Flex last Sept when we were on a Nanea Promo.  Didn’t really pay much attention - spent most of the time BSing.

For the first time ever they offered me exchange value for our WKORV OFD ($65K) and WSJ ($16K) - of course if I came up with more cash...
Pass. 


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## DeniseM (Feb 15, 2019)

Gee Dave, that's a real tempting offer, but I will pass...


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## critterchick (Feb 16, 2019)

DeniseM said:


> That's interesting - did you deal with a local Hawaii sales person, or with corporate sales over the phone?





DeniseM said:


> The reason that I ask is that I have been told on good authority that Vistana is not licensed to sell this product in Hawaii yet, so it can only be purchased from corporate sales.



Face to face in Kauai. I think your good authority is mistaken.


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## taterhed (Feb 16, 2019)

I would certainly believe that a resourceful closer and sales team could manage to 'massage' the process to indicate that a National 'tele-sale' had occurred vice a direct purchase.

Based on the astounding facts I've heard in some sales presentations (whoppers) that would be small meat. 
(unless they got caught).

Who knows.

Can I clarify a point (Denise?):   Upon resale, I think all the Westin Flex turns to dust.  Is that true?  So only flex property ressies using flex points from 12-0 months.  No SO's.  What about bank/borrow?

What are the resale restrictions on this new Hawaii Flex?   (the only one I care to be interested in....)

TIA....

cheers.


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## dioxide45 (Feb 16, 2019)

taterhed said:


> Can I clarify a point (Denise?): Upon resale, I think all the Westin Flex turns to dust. Is that true? So only flex property ressies using flex points from 12-0 months. No SO's. What about bank/borrow?
> 
> What are the resale restrictions on this new Hawaii Flex? (the only one I care to be interested in....)


Flex doesn't really turn to dust upon resale, they are of course voluntary, so no SOs at 8 months out. There really is no Hawaii Flex, you may be talking about Nanea? If so, that is also voluntary.


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## taterhed (Feb 16, 2019)

Well, talking the 'new' Westin Flex as discussed in this thread.

It's too new for resale to really be an option for me......but I'm just looking for a way to supplement my WKORV OFD when we retire to get an extra week in Maui.


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## DeniseM (Feb 16, 2019)

Nanea Home Options and Westin (Hawaii) Flex are 2 different things - see beginning of this thread.  

No banking/borrowing, or Staroption reservations if you buy any of the flex products resale, because the Staroptions don't transfer with a resale.

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## CalGalTraveler (Feb 17, 2019)

This means that Flex will depreciate rapidly if no SOs = cheap Hawaii resales. Not sure how Flex points would work in resale without banking borrowing. 

Does that mean you have to use the points in the year? 

Also can you rent out a flex unit reserved with points in years you cannot use?


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## DeniseM (Feb 17, 2019)

I don't think that the resale value will fall as far as Princeville resales did, because the Maui resorts are more popular than Princeville.  I think the oceanfront location has a great deal to do with that.

If you buy Flex Options resale, you don't have Staroptions, so you can't bank or borrow.  Usage expires at the end of each year.  You own them, so yes, you can rent them.

RE:  Banking and borrowing - Many people use their timeshares every year and don't bank or borrow, so for some that wouldn't be a obstacle to buying Flexoptions resale.   If the resale cost of buying Flexoptions is less expensive that buying a resale deed on Maui, it might be a good value.  And of course there is always renting and II.


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## taterhed (Feb 17, 2019)

It will be interesting to see where it goes...   There might be a short window of good buys for an extra week each year....
Or ???


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## travelpager (Jul 13, 2020)

DeniseM said:


> *Is this new Info?  I received it from an owner.
> 
> 1/17/19 Update:  I have redacted some of the contents of this post.  I'm not going to say anything more about that publicly.
> 
> ...



I appreciate this thread.  Please consider adding information on Westin Flex somewhere among the "sticky" posts.  The sticky post with "Flex Options" in the title seems to predate the mass rollout of Westin Flex to VSE owners. 

Fwiw, I still don't understand whether or how a purchase in either Flex program could be offered for "resale," but then I tend to have to read explanations of all things VSE several times before I understand.  I have read (with curiosity but without interest) ads for Sheraton Flex aftermarket with or without a HomeResort listed and struggled with the concept of owning HomeOptions outside of VSN, i.e., HomeOptions that are not also StarOptions. Would there be annual dues (MF) and, if so, payable to ... what entity?  The exercise is academic but (shrug) I still hope for clarity someday.

Thank you for all your work as moderator, etc.


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## trexmdr (Jul 13, 2020)

Well I hate to say it but it’s going to be years before anyone has to wait reservations even in high seasons for Hawaii. Half the condos, apartments, Air B and B and timeshares are available year round to rent. With the covid tourism will not return to normal for years. Besides the psychological affect on travel the economy has taken a hit. People will drive to local destinations or have staycations or go camping. Much cheaper. I also feel retirees in general will be less likely to travel. 
Eventually we may get back to high demand but for the foreseeable future flex is not a problem.
I would also not be surprised to see airline prices go up, maintenance fees go up as the cost to operate a timeshare due to covid precautions and state taxes go up on all properties as states need to cover the high short fall of tax revenues.
I am certainly wanting to hear some good news and a more happy outlook so please chime in. 
RT


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## travelpager (Jul 13, 2020)

trexmdr said:


> Well I hate to say it but it’s going to be years before anyone has to wait reservations even in high seasons for Hawaii. Half the condos, apartments, Air B and B and timeshares are available year round to rent. With the covid tourism will not return to normal for years. Besides the psychological affect on travel the economy has taken a hit. People will drive to local destinations or have staycations or go camping. Much cheaper. I also feel retirees in general will be less likely to travel.
> Eventually we may get back to high demand but for the foreseeable future flex is not a problem.
> I would also not be surprised to see airline prices go up, maintenance fees go up as the cost to operate a timeshare due to covid precautions and state taxes go up on all properties as states need to cover the high short fall of tax revenues.
> I am certainly wanting to hear some good news and a more happy outlook so please chime in.
> RT



Somewhat consistent with your point, we just returned from Colorado, a driveable destination we chose (and drove) instead of international travel. Perhaps surprisingly, villas were "at capacity" BUT (1) local public health regulations required property not to exceed ___% normal capacity and (2) a LOT of people are eyeing Colorado as ideal for a staycation compared to international travel (outdoor activities, accessible by car, infection rates peaked early). I have found at least one post by a TUGger who had hoped to visit same resort but couldn't get a villa. I don't disagree with your point, but hadn't considered the impact of capacity reduction mandates before this trip.  And, yeah, the sales force had just returned and gave it their all but really stood no chance with us.


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