# Looking at 2nd TS



## GadgetRick (Dec 15, 2006)

Ok, I posted a question in the hotel-base timeshare section but this may be a good place to post some more questions.

My wife and I own Disney Vacation Club (Old Key West) and we love it. We use it to go to Disney once or twice a year and we stay at the various Disney resorts while we're there. So we're covered for that aspect of our vacationing.

I love to ski. I love to ski out West (we live in NJ). I'm thinking of picking up something which will allow me to ski throughout the US/Canada and, occasionally, Europe. I'm currently kicking around either HGVC or Fairfield. I wanted to get others' point of view of the two. Here is what I'm looking for:

-A TS which allows flexibility. I.e., if I want to go to Whistler/Blackcomb this season and Jackson Hole next seasons, I don't want it to be a huge headache.
-I do NOT require a resort stay ALL of the time. Basically, I'm looking for at least one week with a condo/resort so my buddies and I can go and a week and/or some long weekends for the family or just the wife and I.
-I would like to be able to do some long weekends in Atlantic City, DC, Boston, etc., sometimes on (relatively) short notice.

Anyway, I've looked at Fairfield a couple of times.

Pros as I see it
-More Fairfield resorts in ski areas.
-New FF resort in AC.
-More FF resorts throughout the world.
-Offering me a TON of incentives to buy (direct through FF, not through a resort sales person).
-Seems like their points are not as deeply discounted via resale.

Cons as I see it
-Seems a little confusing as to how I can use points at other places (i.e. non-resorts).
-RCI conversion seems to lose value from FF points.
-Relatively high MF.
-Higher cost to buy in for similar amount of time.
-Seems like you lose flexibility if you bank points.

As for Hilton:

Pros as I see it
-Hilton brand, always loved their hotels, gotta believe the resorts are nice.
-Slightly cheaper to buy in for similar amount of time.
-Can find it much cheaper via resale.
-RCI conversion seems to be better than FF's conversion.
-Lower MF
-HHonors conversion is attractive to me. (I know about the cost break down but, for my travel plans, it may make sense from time to time)
-Seems realtively easy to stay at non-Hilton resorts and/or Hilton-owned hotels. (Again, I know about the cost breakdown issues with this.)

Cons as I see it
-They aren't offering as much in the way of incentives to purchase. (Keep in mind, I have not bargained at all and I have not looked at resales seriously yet.)
-Fewer Hilton resorts than Fairfield.
-Only one Hilton resort (in CO) by a ski resort. However, they have access to Intrawest resorts as well as (as you know) RCI resorts.


I think that covers it. Is there anything else you all can point out as far as pros/cons to either? Is there another TS I should take a look at for the type of travel I'm looking for? Where are good places to look at resale?

Thanks.

The Rickster


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## GadgetRick (Dec 15, 2006)

Oh, just thought of something else. I'm just wondering if it would make sense to buy into something like HGVC if they don't have Hilton resorts where I want to go. What I mean is, HGVC only has ONE resort by a ski area. I like to go skiing different places. FF has quite a few. I realize I have access to RCI and the Intrawest resorts, however, would it be the best use of my money to buy that or go with FF since they have resorts I could stay in owned/operated by FF?

With our DVC, we stay (mostly) at DVC resorts, however, we do use our points to stay at the nicer Disney resorts (Contemporary, Grand Floridian, etc.), however, you kind of lose some of your points renting power this way. Do you think I'd lose too much of that power with HGVC? Would FF be better for what I want to do?

Thanks.

The Rickster


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## CMF (Dec 15, 2006)

*Trying to educate myself as well.*

Rick, I wonder why you are not considering an RCI affiliated points resorts.  From what little I know, the trick is to buy a resort for a decent price that has low maintenance fees and a high point value.  That should give you all the flexibility you need (again, "a little knowledge is a dangerous thing" - specially in my hands) because you can trade to the 3,500 RCI resorts and book shorter stays when you need them.

Charles


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## EAM (Dec 15, 2006)

*Fairfield pros and cons*



			
				GadgetRick said:
			
		

> I love to ski. I love to ski out West (we live in NJ). I'm thinking of picking up something which will allow me to ski throughout the US/Canada and, occasionally, Europe. I'm currently kicking around either HGVC or Fairfield. I wanted to get others' point of view of the two. Here is what I'm looking for:
> 
> -A TS which allows flexibility. I.e., if I want to go to Whistler/Blackcomb this season and Jackson Hole next seasons, I don't want it to be a huge headache.
> -I do NOT require a resort stay ALL of the time. Basically, I'm looking for at least one week with a condo/resort so my buddies and I can go and a week and/or some long weekends for the family or just the wife and I.
> ...



Although I like Fairfield's resorts, I am not sure  Fairfield would be the right choice for skiing out west.  Fairfield does not currently have any resorts close to the best (IMHO) ski areas in the west.  They have a facility in downtown Durango (about 20 miles from Purgatory), a large resort at Pagosa Springs (about 25 miles from Wolf Creek), a resort at Flagstaff (also 25 miles away from skiing).  The only one that is really close to skiing is the one at the South Shore of Lake Tahoe.  Angel Fire is a Fairfield Affiliate and close to skiing, but I think availability for Fairfield members may be limited.   Some WorldMark resorts (e.g. at Steamboat Springs) are Fairfield Associate locations.   Currently, Wyndham is slowly making more WorldMark locations available to Fairfield owners, but that could change.  Also, availability at associate locations is likely to be limited.  Fairfield used to have an associate location in Frisco (which was within a reasonable drive of Keystone, Vail, A-Basin, Copper, etc.), but it is no longer in the Fairfield system.  You won't get anything in Canada, in central CO (Aspen, Vail, Snowmass, Keystone, Copper, ...) , in Utah, or Wyoming with Fairfield unless you go through RCI.  Ther is no guarantee that associate resorts will stay in the Fairfield system.

Ski resorts in winter are not particularly easy trades in RCI.   I have not tried to get a ski week with Fairfield points so I don't know how difficult it would be.  However, I don't think you would be able to get a ski week at Whistler or Jackson Hole with a FF 28K blue studio.  If you do an internal trade back into Fairfield at Flagstaff or Pagosa Spring, you might be able to trade a studio deposit for a 1 or 2 BR.

My husband has stayed at the new resort in AC.  It is not easy to get a weekend there at the last minute.  If you plan a few months in advance, you should be able to get it for a weekend, though.  It usually fills up for Saturday night.  Availability for the weekdays is much better.  This is one of the few FF's that charges ($10/day) for parking (valet).  The Fairfield in Alexandria, VA, fills up several months in advance; you are not likely to get it for a weekend on short notice.  There is a new one being constructed in the DC area, though, so availability in the area might increase.  I am not aware of any timeshares in the Boston area. You'd have to reserve a hotel room.  There are a couple of Wyndhams in the area (Andover and Chelsea), and Fairfield owners get discounts there (see below).

Fairfield currently has only one resort outside the US, at St. Thomas.  The other resorts in the Fairfield system that are outside the U.S. are affiliate or associate locations.  Again, availability may be limited, although we had no trouble making reservations at the Quebec resort.  

I am not sure what you mean by FF offering a ton of incentives to buy direct from FF not from a resort sales person.  Are you thinking of buying from Fairfield's main office rather than from one of the resorts?  

Also, compared to DVC, Fairfield points are sold at very deep discount on the resale market.  

To use points for hotels, airfare, rental cars, etc. you have to have Fairfield's Plus Partners option.  This is usually part of the deal when you buy direct from Fairfield, or (at least in the past) you could pay a fee (about $2500) to have it added to your account.  You have to call Fairfield to make reservations and there is a fee (about $35) for each reservation.  In many case, you end up paying more in reservation fees and the maintenance fees for the points than you would if you paid cash.  

Recently Fairfield started giving Fairfield owners discounts on hotel rooms (reserved via the FF website with a credit card, not using points) at Wyndham, Ramada, Baymont, Days Inn, Knights Inn, Howard Johnson, Amerihots, Wingate, Super 8 and Travelodge.   These do seem to be good prices if you want to reserve a particular type of room at a particular location.  You could probably get a lower rate via Priceline or other bidding site. 

Could you explain what you mean by the RCI conversion seems to lose value?

Fairfield's maintenance fees depend on the resort.  Unless you want to return to the same resort on a regular basis, it would make sense to buy at a resort with low maintenance fees.

If you deposit points in Fairfield's Points Credit Pool (similar to banking DVC points), you receive Pool Credits which can only be used within the Fairfield system.  You can't use them for RCI, hotels, etc.  There is a fee (about $25) for depositing points in the Credit Pool.  Pool credits expire 3 years after the points were deposited.  You normally have to deposit the points before the Use Year starts.

I am not familiar with HGVC, so I can't comment on that.

Have you considered WorldMark?  It has many more locations in the west and the Fairfield in Atlantic City is a WorldMark Affiliate.  Availability for WorldMark owners may be limited, though.


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## mshatty (Dec 15, 2006)

My thoughts are if you are buying Fairfield/Wyn points for your objective, I suggest Pagosa Springs, Flagstaff, Sedona, South Shore Lake Tahoe. All of these resorts have reasonable MFs in the FF system.  If you are buying resale with a converted fixed week, you can only reserve the fixed week from 10 to 13 months out at your "home" resort.  From 10 months in, you can reserve any week or days at any FF resort.

I would buy these resale because of the extremely deep discount in relation to a developer purchase. I listened to Wyndams investor webcast yesterday and the developer's cost to sell to you is more than 50%.

Currently, you can find FF points for $10 to $20 per 1,000 points vs. $130 per 1000 points from FF directly.


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## bnoble (Dec 15, 2006)

> You can't use (Pool credits) for RCI, hotels, etc.


True, but I think you *can* convert them to "cancel points" by using them to book a reservation, cancelling it (more than 30 days in advance of check in), and can then at least deposit them in RCI.


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## trice01 (Dec 15, 2006)

*!!!*

Rick, can't comment on Hilton, but as for Fairfield...There is a huge discount in buying through the resale market. It's a little more hassle, but the markdown is probably up in the 75% range at least. I have not heard of any incentive program offered through Fairfield/Wyndham that comes close to offsetting the price difference. The Fairfield sales people are incredible bs'ers, so I would not rely much on what they tell you. There are some great deals on Fairfield through eBay, if you want to wing it yourself. For a fairly good combination of knowledgeable seller and decent price, you might check out RPMI which is an authorized reseller that gets transactions done smoothly.


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## Jya-Ning (Dec 15, 2006)

GadgetRick said:
			
		

> Anyway, I've looked at Fairfield a couple of times.
> 
> Pros as I see it
> -Seems like their points are not as deeply discounted via resale.
> ...



We are compare between FF and Hilton, right?  Not Hilton owner, but a FF owner, how did you come up these conclusion?

I believe in Hilton the point is fixed for newer resort and old resort.  While in FF the point is not, newer resort requires more points then older one.

The MF is tied to the underline properties, so in order to compare, you need to look at properties for the same area.

Resell price - are you looking at the resell through the broker?  That is asking price.  HGVC has ROFR, so their asking price is close to the final price.  FF does not, so the ask price maybe several times of the final price.

RCI conversion
I will use stdio one week stay
FF red season 70k, blue season 28k
HGVC red season 2.4k, red season 1.2k

Stay internally
HGVC - red season 2 BR 7k, 1B 5k, for 1 week
FF - red season at this moment is from 231k to 154k for 2Br, newer one maybe up much higer.  154k to 84k for 1BR

MF is tied to the property underline.  But I don't believe FF is more expensive than HGVC in any way.
Resell FF definitely cheaper than HGVC.
Developer purchase maybe FF is expensive than HGVC.  If you do that, HGVC's other non-resort related program will be much value than FF
Loss Value against RCI deposit?  I believe FF actually same/better than HGVC.  But without trading comparison, it is very hard to guess.  But as owner, you have priority, and FF has more resorts than HGVC, thus it has better choice.  Based on the serveral resell contract's MF I saw, FF blue deposit is better than HGVC, red deposit is HGVC better than FF.  But both should be very close.

Try to find the MF of the possible resell contract you are looking, then you may recalc your cost and may get these conclusion.

Jya-Ning


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## GadgetRick (Dec 15, 2006)

Whew! Great info! Thanks a bunch! Anyway, I'll try and reply here. 

Seems to me like FF may not be the answer for me from what's been said here. Although I thought FF has places in other ski areas. Maybe I'm thinking they're Wyndams? The one in Tahoe caught my eye as I love the Tahoe area. However, I can always get crazy deals to go out there due to the casinos subsidizing the cost of airfare and hotel there so I'm not sure it makes much sense for me to get something out there.

The couple of resale sites I've looked at seem to have prices close to what I am being offered through the office (yes, that's what I meant). I'll have to check into the sites which have been mentioned around here. I'll also have to check into Worldmark (is it?). I really am most interested in ski vacations. Yes, I'd use it for other things from time to time but not very often. In a couple years we'll be going back to Australia and I'd love to utilize any TS I have at the time. Can't really use DVC as we use it EVERY year at least once to go down to Disney. 

As far as incentives go, I'll try and remember what they're offering me to buy through them (purchasing 300,000 points in AC):

-300,000 extra points
-paying my membership fees into all of the stuff (I believe) you all mentioned here. I'd check to make sure.
-Some type of voucher (is it) for 4 vacations. I really don't know how they're used or what limitations there are.
-Membership into their Gold level status. I'm still not totally sure of what that gives me other than some point discounts. I don't know how much value there is to this one.

HGVC is offering me (purchasing 7,000 points platinum):

-20,000 additional points
-defering payment for 90 days (ok, this doesn't matter as it's just deferring the fact I've got to pay for it)

Do the resale sites typically provide for finacing the resales?

Thanks a bunch for all of the great info!

The Rickster


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## bnoble (Dec 15, 2006)

I could be wrong, but once you start talking about financing a purchase, especially one for a price anywhere near what a developer is asking, you are likely to be much much better off just renting the stays you need.

Right now, the going rate on ebay for FF points deeds runs between $15 and $20 per thousand points for deeds with annual maintenance around $4.50/thousand.  That would come to somwhere between $4,500 and $6,000 for the package you are considering. 

In any event, if skiing is what you want, FF is probably not the right set of properties.  If I recall correctly the points cost for the Tahoe property during ski weeks is very very very high.


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## EAM (Dec 15, 2006)

GadgetRick said:
			
		

> . Although I thought FF has places in other ski areas. Maybe I'm thinking they're Wyndams?



Until recently, Cendant owned Fairfield, RCI, Trendwest (developer for WorldMark) and many other companies.   Cendant split into four companies, one of which is now called Wyndham Worldwide.  Fairfield Resorts is now known as Wyndham Vacation Ownership, a subsidiary of Wyndham Worldwide.  Fairfield owners can use Fairfield points at five Wyndham hotels (Costa Mesa, CA, two in Atlanta, GA, St. Thomas, and New Orleans), but you'd get a much better deal for the same room with cash.


			
				GadgetRick said:
			
		

> .
> The couple of resale sites I've looked at seem to have prices close to what I am being offered through the office (yes, that's what I meant). I'll have to check into the sites which have been mentioned around here. I'll also have to check into WorldMark (is it?). I really am most interested in ski vacations. Yes, I'd use it for other things from time to time but not very often. In a couple years we'll be going back to Australia...


FSP resale prices have been about $0.01 to $0.04 per point and developer prices have been about $0.08 to $0.15 per point (if you buy more points at one time, the price goes down).

There's information about WorldMark at http://www.worldmarktheclub.com/
WorldMark has a different business model than Fairfield.    I am sure WorldMark owners here can fill you in.  Note that WorldMark has locations in Australia and at Whistler, BC as well as many resorts in the western US (though none in Wyoming and only two in Colorado) [/QUOTE]


			
				GadgetRick said:
			
		

> .
> As far as incentives go, I'll try and remember what they're offering me to buy through them (purchasing 300,000 points in AC):
> -300,000 extra points
> -paying my membership fees into all of the stuff (I believe) you all mentioned here. I'd check to make sure.
> ...



I am guessing that the extra points are temporary (maybe for two years) and you will have to pay maintenance fees both on the temporary points as well as the points you buy.  You could be paying for more points than you can use unless you have a lot of vacation time.  Fairfield pays for one annual membership in RCI or II.  They will also pay for a membership in Leisure Plan (a discount club sort of thing) for a year; after that it is about $25 per year, unless you are VIP Gold (purchased at least 500K points from Fairfield).  

In the past, Fairfield has given away RCI bonus weeks.  These are similar in value to Last Call on RCI (excess inventory, low price).  They are not free and your choice of vacations is limited.  This may be what the four vouchers are.

With 300K points from Fairfield you would have VIP status.  While you have the temporary extra 300K points in your account, you would have VIP Gold Status.  When the temporary points expire, you would lose the Gold Status.  

VIP status gets you a 25% points discount on available units at 60 days before checkin, VIP Gold gets a 35% discount at that time.  VIPs can get a 1 unit size upgrade to a larger unit (if available) at 30 days before checkin.  VIP gold can get this at 45 days before checkin. VIP owners get unlimited Housekeeping Credits (a benefit useful only if you have many short stays) and early checkin (2 p.m. if the unit is ready early). 

VIP Gold gets you a few other benefits such as a free USA Today M-F while at a Fairfield resort,  mid-week trash removal and towel replacement, unlimited reservation transactions (you get a certain number free each year, when you use them up the rest are $25 I think),  a one unit size upgrade on blue and white weeks deposited into RCI, discounts on Avis Car Rentals (this could go away with the Cendant breakup) and the ability to reserve specific units at a Fairfield resort.  

The VIP rules are subject to change.  Many people do not think they are worth the price one must pay to get them.  They do not transfer when you sell the timeshare unless you sell to a close relative.  They can also be transferred by inheritance.  The owners who did buy from Fairfield to get VIP status do seem to enjoy these benefits, though.

I don't think resale sites usually provide financing.   Timeshare developers often charge rather high interest rates.  IMHO, it is better to avoid paying interest if at all possible. 

The points costs for ski season at Fairfield at South Tahoe are

Weeks 1-6, 8-14           175K 1BR, 238K 2BR, 300K 3BR
Week 51,52, 7              238   1BR, 324K 2BR, 400K 3BR

These are high points values; many other FF resorts have 2BRs for 154K, 189K, etc. in prime season.


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## GadgetRick (Dec 15, 2006)

EAM said:
			
		

> FSP resale prices have been about $0.01 to $0.04 per point and developer prices have been about $0.08 to $0.15 per point (if you buy more points at one time, the price goes down).


I keep reading this but I've not found anywhere offering them that cheap, although I've not checked eBay. Not saying they're not out there, just curious where. I still have to check into some of the sites mentioned around here. But I'm being offered about $0.09 per point by them. So that's right in line with what you're saying.



			
				EAM said:
			
		

> There's information about WorldMark at http://www.worldmarktheclub.com/
> WorldMark has a different business model than Fairfield.    I am sure WorldMark owners here can fill you in.  Note that WorldMark has locations in Australia and at Whistler, BC as well as many resorts in the western US (though none in Wyoming and only two in Colorado)


I have already emailed for info from these guys. I'm not worried about CO. The altitude is just too much in CO. I prefer places with slightly lower altitude for skiing. 



			
				EAM said:
			
		

> I am guessing that the extra points are temporary (maybe for two years) and you will have to pay maintenance fees both on the temporary points as well as the points you buy.  You could be paying for more points than you can use unless you have a lot of vacation time.  Fairfield pays for one annual membership in RCI or II.  They will also pay for a membership in Leisure Plan (a discount club sort of thing) for a year; after that it is about $25 per year, unless you are VIP Gold (purchased at least 500K points from Fairfield).


Yes, it's good for two years. I hadn't thought about having to pay the extra MF on that. Good poing on that one!



			
				EAM said:
			
		

> In the past, Fairfield has given away RCI bonus weeks.  These are similar in value to Last Call on RCI (excess inventory, low price).  They are not free and your choice of vacations is limited.  This may be what the four vouchers are.


Ah, that would kinda suck as it doesn't seem as though I'd be able to use those weeks...



			
				EAM said:
			
		

> With 300K points from Fairfield you would have VIP status.  While you have the temporary extra 300K points in your account, you would have VIP Gold Status.  When the temporary points expire, you would lose the Gold Status.


So that explains why, in the email, it said something to the effect of having Gold status for up to 2 years.



			
				EAM said:
			
		

> I don't think resale sites usually provide financing.   Timeshare developers often charge rather high interest rates.  IMHO, it is better to avoid paying interest if at all possible.


Always better to avoid interest, however, hard to do in many cases. Besides, I sell mortgages. If nobody paid interest, I'd not have a job! 

The more I'm reading, the less FF seems to make sense for me. Thanks for all of that info!

The Rickster


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## Jya-Ning (Dec 15, 2006)

GadgetRick said:
			
		

> In a couple years we'll be going back to Australia and I'd love to utilize any TS I have at the time. Can't really use DVC as we use it EVERY year at least once to go down to Disney.



Is it for good, or you plan to come back to US very soon?  If it is for good, then own TS in US is not good idea unless you do plan to fly back to US every year to use your DVC and that timeshare.  

If you only plan to use the TS for 2 years, why not try other way?  FF has a Yahoo group, http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Fairfield_timeshare/.  Worldmark has their owner's group, just look this site in the Wyndham forum, several posters has that group on the list.  Don't know about HGVC. eBay or redweek all have rental for these group.  Go talk to the rental or joint one of the group.  Find an owner that doing rental, talk to that person, set up some arrangement so (s)he will get some specific week for you at an arranged price.  If you come to FF Yahoo group, try to find someone with Plantimun VIP.  Sometimes, if you can take short notice travel, they can get resort much cheaper than if you purchase resell.  If you do a pre-arrange type of deal, they have less risk, so they may willing to charge you a good rate.  So you enjoy some VIP discount, they get a higher return.  You don't have risk that owning a TS and need to pay MF even if you can not use it.

Jya-Ning


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## Jya-Ning (Dec 16, 2006)

CMF said:
			
		

> Rick, I wonder why you are not considering an RCI affiliated points resorts.  From what little I know, the trick is to buy a resort for a decent price that has low maintenance fees and a high point value.  That should give you all the flexibility you need (again, "a little knowledge is a dangerous thing" - specially in my hands) because you can trade to the 3,500 RCI resorts and book shorter stays when you need them.
> 
> Charles



Both program (FF and HGVC) will allow you access RCI point resort and week resort.  Both program provide you ways to burn your points in other travel cost like RCI points.  

I can think three differences seperate these program(s) with RCI points program. First is these program is backed by deed, thus the point value can not easily changed.  RCI point can.  2nd, you can not rent out RCI exchanged reservation, both programs will allow you to rent out their internal reservation.  It can be good and it can be bad.  If the system has chance to give regular owner chance to make good reservation, they are better than RCI point, otherwise, one will tend to believe RCI program will allow owner better chance to get good reservation.  On the other hand, RCI does rent out its inventories. 3rd, MF is mini program is usually close.  While in RCI, it could be hugh difference.  Therefore, in most of the mini-program, it make less sense to use its other non-resort product, while in RCI, you have very good chance to find a resort with less MF that make the exchange to non-resort product worth.

Jya-Ning
Jya-Ning


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## GadgetRick (Dec 16, 2006)

LOL! I wish I was going over to Australia for good!  No, just going back for a second honeymoon. We went there when we got married. We planned to go this year for our 5th but we had a little bundle of joy to contend with. Flights are too lon for a newborn. 

Thanks for all of the info. It sounds like neither FF or HGVC would be a good fit for me. Still haven't spoken to the WorldMark people and I'll have to touch base with RCI.

I'll keep everyone posted if I do anything.

Thanks again.

The Rickster


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## EAM (Dec 16, 2006)

*The FF prices on eBay are quite low*

Searched for Fairfield points, completed listings, here are a few examples.

203K points Seawatch, Myrtle Beach, $2419

154K points, Branson, $660

105 K points Ocean Ridge, Edisto Island $386

231K points Sea Gardens, Pompano Beach $2700

126K points Sea Gardens, $864

454K points Atlantic City, $5401.01


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## Jya-Ning (Dec 17, 2006)

Not a ski person.  But have you pull some ski magazine to see the range of different places and the ranking and pick some you may like best?  Only you will know what you are looking for.  Then you can look at different resort chain to determine which one you may want.

I think I once read that Marriott has great one in Utah.  WM has a great one in Whistler.  Don't know how FF Tahoe compare to them.  But I do believe there are a lot no-ski activities there.  For wk 1 through 14 and 20 - 39 1 BR it is 175k (238k in wk 7 & 27), For 2 BD it is 238k (324k in wk 7 & 27).  For 3 BD or 2BD presidential it is 300k and 400k and 3 BR presidential it is 360k and 500k.

You can find WM's info from the link EAM provides.  There is an owner's manual tell you how their system works.

You have to register with eBay.  They after you search real estate/timeshare and all timeshare, at the bottom left side, there is a check box for completed list, you can select that and look at the final bid on all their listing for about 3 wk's listing.  This is the slowest season in TS, so you may see some deal that you usually will not see in other time of year.  

Wyndham owns both FF and WM, and they are very aggressive expand.

Jya-Ning


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## GadgetRick (Dec 17, 2006)

Jya-Ning said:
			
		

> Not a ski person.  But have you pull some ski magazine to see the range of different places and the ranking and pick some you may like best?  Only you will know what you are looking for.  Then you can look at different resort chain to determine which one you may want.
> 
> I think I once read that Marriott has great one in Utah.  WM has a great one in Whistler.  Don't know how FF Tahoe compare to them.  But I do believe there are a lot no-ski activities there.  For wk 1 through 14 and 20 - 39 1 BR it is 175k (238k in wk 7 & 27), For 2 BD it is 238k (324k in wk 7 & 27).  For 3 BD or 2BD presidential it is 300k and 400k and 3 BR presidential it is 360k and 500k.
> 
> ...


Thanks. I've looked at Marriott and didn't find them to be terribly easy to use so I decided against them.

I'm not looking for one resort in one area to go back to every year. I'd rather have the flexibility to go to different ski areas. That's what I'm worried about with HGVC as they only have one Hilton resort by a ski area.

I checked on eBay and found some WM TS sales, however, I have  no idea how much of a discount they are at since I have no idea how much they sell for from the developer.

I'll have to look into Wyndham as well. Thanks for that tip.

The Rickster


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## GadgetRick (Dec 17, 2006)

Ok, I'm slightly confused now. So, Wyndham is now associated with FF? When I found the Wyndham site I only saw the resorts FF has listed. So do you now buy FF points or Wyndham points?

Sorry, just trying to sort it all out.

The Rickster


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## Timeshare Von (Dec 17, 2006)

GadgetRick said:
			
		

> I checked on eBay and found some WM TS sales, however, I have  no idea how much of a discount they are at since I have no idea how much they sell for from the developer.



Most anything you find on Ebay with a low starting price (a couple hundred bucks) will go for significantly less than what you would pay a developer.  There are a couple out there, asking for over $10k, which should be avoided at all costs!  My opinion is that you should be able to find what you're looking for and interested in for $1000 or less for a basic week or points package, nothing too extravagent or large.


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## Timeshare Von (Dec 17, 2006)

GadgetRick said:
			
		

> Ok, I'm slightly confused now. So, Wyndham is now associated with FF? When I found the Wyndham site I only saw the resorts FF has listed. So do you now buy FF points or Wyndham points?
> 
> Sorry, just trying to sort it all out.
> 
> The Rickster



Wyndham recently acquired FF and they are now branded under the Wyndham name.  Most of us old timer FF owners still consider ourselves FF owners, at least I do.


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## Spence (Dec 17, 2006)

Take your time and read, read, read.
WM points on resale are pretty much standard pricing on eBay at 70-80¢ which is close to half of retail.
Fairfield have all recently been re-branded as Wyndham.


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## GadgetRick (Dec 17, 2006)

Ah, ok, this is starting to make some sense. 

As of right now, it seems as if WM might be the better choice for my skiing needs. Any comments on this one? Remember, I don't need something with a TON of resorts in warm weather climates. That's not where I go to vacation (other than Disney). None of the TSs seem to have a LOT of ski areas but WM seems to have a few I can have fun with.

Thanks again for everything. It's tough getting truthful info from the companies (as you all know). Nice to have you all here to help!

The Rickster


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## Spence (Dec 17, 2006)

GadgetRick said:
			
		

> Ah, ok, this is starting to make some sense.
> 
> As of right now, it seems as if WM might be the better choice for my skiing needs. Any comments on this one? Remember, I don't need something with a TON of resorts in warm weather climates. That's not where I go to vacation (other than Disney). None of the TSs seem to have a LOT of ski areas but WM seems to have a few I can have fun with.
> 
> ...


There are people here on TUG that are very high on WM.  If their locations fit for you, you should investigate it.  Vacation Internationale might also work for you.


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## GadgetRick (Dec 17, 2006)

Have to check that one out, too.

Thanks.

The Rickster


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## EAM (Dec 17, 2006)

GadgetRick said:
			
		

> None of the TSs seem to have a LOT of ski areas but WM seems to have a few I can have fun with.
> The Rickster


If you search on amenity "Downhill skiing" and resort name "Worldmark" you get a list of 29, including one in Australia and one in New Zealand and three in BC.  The rest are in the USA.

Marriott has five at ski areas (Vail, Tahoe, Breckinridge, and two at Park City).
I think Starwood has only two ski resorts, but they are at Vail and Beaver Creek.  HGVC has one at Breckinridge; I don't know if there are any at other locations.  I think Bluegreen's ski resorts are all in the midwest.  VRI bought ORE a while back  and has several ski resorts, including ones at Jackson Hole and Park City.  I think VRI does internal exchanges for a fee.  Sunterra has five, but one is at Gatlinburg, TN and three are in AZ/NM.  One is at Steamboat Springs, though.   RHC has a number of ski resorts but all but two (at Lake Placid and Breckinridge) are at Vail.  I don't know if RHC has its own exchange system.    I can't think of any others that would be part of a chain.  

Before you buy from any of these, I suggest you read the reviews and talk to owners about their experiences with the resort and whatever mini-exchange system it is affiliated with.


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## GadgetRick (Dec 18, 2006)

Are you searching with Google or here on TUG? Good tip there.

The Rickster


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## GadgetRick (Dec 18, 2006)

Ok, I had thought I had it figured out. Was going to go with WorldMark as they have more resorts in ski areas than FF or HGVC. However, just found out a couple of things which may be deal stoppers over there. So now I'm back to square one.

As I've said, I like HGVC as it offers flexibility but I'd wind up exchaning for 99% of the travel I'd use it for. I don't want to deal with that.

FF has more ski resorts but still not as many as WM so I'd be exchanging for 85-95% of the travel I'd use it for.

Am I making a bigger deal out of exchanging than I need to be? I just don't want to lose value with the points I've purchased. I also don't want to be forced to take a full week when I only need a few nights or not be able to ever get the resorts I want.

Any thoughts?

Sorry to keep bugging everyone, it's just nice to know people who actually know the systems.

The Rickster


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## EAM (Dec 18, 2006)

*RCI directory of resort online*



			
				GadgetRick said:
			
		

> Are you searching with Google or here on TUG? Good tip there.
> 
> The Rickster



I was searching in the online RCI directory.


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## EAM (Dec 18, 2006)

GadgetRick said:
			
		

> FF has more ski resorts but still not as many as WM so I'd be exchanging for 85-95% of the travel I'd use it for.
> 
> Am I making a bigger deal out of exchanging than I need to be? I just don't want to lose value with the points I've purchased. I also don't want to be forced to take a full week when I only need a few nights or not be able to ever get the resorts I want.The Rickster



Perhaps you should buy at a FF location that has skiing within 30 miles.  Fairfield Pagosa would be affordable at resale prices.   Buy UDI (undivided interest) points (rather than a fixed week converted to points) at Peregrine or Teal Landing so that you could make an ARP (advance reservation priority) reservation at 10-13 months before checkin for 3, 4 or 7 days.  You would need 166K for a prime 2BR for one week at Teal Landing.  Peregrine has large 2BR lockoffs at 94.5K for the small side and 105K for the larger side.   However, most of ski season (except weeks 51 and 52) is not prime at Pagosa.  You could get weeks 1-7 for as little as 126K (Teal Landing) or a 2BR lockoff at Peregrine for 161K.  

With FSP (Fairshare Plus, Fairfield points) there is no exchange fee  if you exchange to any Fairfield-managed or Fairfield affliate or associate location.  For an (ever-increasing, it seems) fee you would be able to exchange via RCI for another ski week.  FSP includes an RCI membership so there'd be no additional annual membership fee.  There's no guarantee that you will be able to get the high end resorts at prime locations, though.  You might ask on the Fairfield_Timeshare Yahoo! group about how well FSP points trade for prime ski weeks out west.  If you are interested in buying Fairfield, I would encourage you to join that group before buying.  They have databases showing what types of trades members have gotten in RCI using their FSP points.  

If you buy from Fairfield or pay a fee (about $2400) you could have the PlusPartners program on your Fairfield account which would allow you to use FSP points to make reservations at RCI Points resorts at 10 months or less before checkin.   There would be an exchange fee but it would be less than with the RCI weeks system and you would not have to reserve a whole week.

Another possibility would be an RCI Points resort.  You'd still have the option of taking shorter vacations.  

The main problems you are likely to encounter with exchanging are

1.  RCI's exchange fee
2. Possible lack of availability at the resorts you want to go to
3.  Inability to reserve for less than an full week with the RCI exchange system.

The pros are that you might be able to reserve a 1 or 2 BR unit at a less well know ski area in the west with only a 70K Fairfield red studio so that the amount of the RCI exchange fee won't matter so much.


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## GadgetRick (Dec 19, 2006)

Ok, I believe I know what I'm going to do. Spoke with Seth at great length today. Looks like I'm going to pick up an 8400 point Hilton account. Long story but it just seems like the best thing for me other than a Hyatt TS but that's just a little more than I'm willing to buy right now... 

I'll keep everyone posted to let you know for sure. Thanks SO much for all of your help!!! I'm sure I'll be posting with questions in the future. I will also be joining TUG since it (obviously) saved me quite a bit of money. 

Thanks.

The Rickster


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