# Marriott Vacation Club Destinations Points for sale on E-Bay



## Venter

I suppose other TUGGERS probably have seen this.  It looks like it is a TUGGER selling this. http://cgi.ebay.com/Marriott-Vacati...Points-Single-Use-/150485309627?pt=Timeshares

Seeing that the speculation on TUG is that points will sell for between .40 and .50 dollars the asking price seems a bit ridiculous.  Also some weeks in fine locations with choice of booking date will go for about $3500 if you are looking for a prime week.  Not so desirable weeks can be picked up for less than £1000

Maybe the seller can comment on his thinking and other TUGGERS if they will consider such an asking price.

I for one would not be tempted easily except if I have firm plans for a special holiday in 2012 but with the rules as they are it is risky as your confirmation is not certain seeing that it is legacy points.


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## GregT

Venter said:


> I suppose other TUGGERS probably have seen this.  It looks like it is a TUGGER selling this. http://cgi.ebay.com/Marriott-Vacati...Points-Single-Use-/150485309627?pt=Timeshares
> 
> Seeing that the speculation on TUG is that points will sell for between .40 and .50 dollars the asking price seems a bit ridiculous.
> 
> Maybe the seller can comment on his thinking and other TUGGERS if they will consider such an asking price.
> 
> I for one would not be tempted easily except if I have firm plans for a special holiday in 2012 but with the rules as they are it is risky as your confirmation is not certain seeing that it is legacy points.



Venter,

Thank you -- you are correct it is my auction, and it is an experiment that I'm running.  Personally, I think one of the most important things about the Marriott system is the ability to transfer points.

We had a separate thread speculating on what rental values would settle at, and I offered (and continue to believe) $0.30 - $0.60 is the right range.  But some, (mostly non-TUGgers) speculated that it could reach $1.00 per point, which seems extremely high to me.

I've been waiting for someone to pick up the ad because I am interested to hear the dialogue around the framework I've created.  I've actually been running the experiment for 2 weeks now (but was restricted to Lodging until I figured out how to move it over to For Sale).  It's made a big difference in Viewers -- original ad was 153 viewers with 3 watchers, current ad (after 6 hours) is 24 Viewers with 1 watcher.

So, this really is an experiment -- my current thought on why so little contact are as follows (but too early for conclusions):

1) Renting points is still a new concept in the Marriott world
2) $0.75 - $1.00 is (much) too high
3) 2012 is too far off for people to be planning about now
4) eBay is not a good forum for people to check (Lodging at least)

One of the big reasons I enrolled is because I believe transferring points is very very powerful.   I expect it will take time for a market to develop, but why own (more) points if you can rent them cheaply (and I don't mean $1.00)?  

I'm just curious if there's anyone out there who bought 1,500 points and now realizes they can't do anything with them and figures out it's better to rent them for $0.75 (or $0.60 or $0.50).     

I'm just curious.  Thanks for picking it up, I figured I'd post on it when the listing ended to avoiding appearance of promoting it.  It really is an experiment and I value TUGgers input.  

And the thoughts on the numbers of points available to rent out are that I would still have 4,450 points left over, which can get me 5 nights in MOC Lahaina Mtn/Garden, which I think is a good points value to piggyback onto my other week.

Thanks again!

Greg


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## jerseygirl

GregT said:


> I'm just curious if there's anyone out there who bought 1,500 points and now realizes they can't do anything with them and figures out it's better to rent them for $0.75 (or $0.60 or $0.50).



That sounds like a great idea to me .... hope it works.


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## Venter

GregT said:


> We had a separate thread speculating on what rental values would settle at, and I offered (and continue to believe) $0.30 - $0.60 is the right range.  But some, (mostly non-TUGgers) speculated that it could reach $1.00 per point, which seems extremely high to me.
> 
> 
> Greg



I would certainly buy for $0.30 if I saw this many points this far out because it will allow me to plan a really good holiday tagged on to my other weeks.

It will be interesting to see how the experiment turns out.


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## Y-ASK

[Buying/selling/renting/trading is not permitted in the TUG discussion forums. - DeniseM Moderator]


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## DeniseM

Folks - discussing this _in the abstract_ is permitted on TUG - making offers is not.


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## rkuba

*I'm just curious if there's anyone out there who bought 1,500 points and now realizes*

I'm just curious if there's anyone out there who bought 1,500 points and now realizes they can't do anything with them and figures out it's better to rent them for $0.75 (or $0.60 or $0.50). 

--- I'm new to the timeshare industry and just had a stay in Hilton Head.  After this I was planning to buy in at 1500 points.  Now this does NOT seem like a good idea.  Is that a good appraisal?
Cost of the plan is $13,800 + $596(closing costs), then $50/mo maint.  fee.

Concern is:
1. if I banked 1500 for a year and had 3000 points every 2 years, what kind of place could I get?

Marriott sent me all these forms to sign (Purch settlement summary, special warranty deed....), but here's what I have to laugh at:  They want me to sign, agreeing to a.) terms, conditions.... of the title agreement... b.)cond, restrictions.... of Trust Memorandum... c.)use restrictions .... in Reservation Procedures for MVC.... d.) taxes, assessments for current & subsequent years.......
BUT, they didn't send the TITLE AGREEMENT, TRUST MEMORANDUM< RESERVATION PROCEDURES or in adies on taxes/assessments... Now that ticks me off.  Any comments?

Thanks,
Russ


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## LAX Mom

I am very interested to see the response to your ebay listing. Please report back and tell us if anyone bids. 

If ebay isn't the best place to rent points where else do you think would be a good option?


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## thinze3

*Plausible ? Yes!*

Just suppose your resort offered 4500 points but you wanted to get two rooms at an upgraded resort that costs 5100 points per week. After borrowing from next year you would still be 1200 points shy. I don't think it's all that implausible that someone would spend $1K to get the deal done.

A large family gathering in Maui, for instance, could be priceless. I know mine was when we got two 2BR units at Waiohai in 2007.


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## foreverloves

I saw this auction also.  Funny; I knew it was a Tugger because there is a little phrase at the bottom that said "TUG" on it, and I thought, "Hmmm...."

Good luck.  I am barred from ever participating because I won't have a resale deed pre-June 20th.  Ah well.


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## GregT

rkuba said:


> --- I'm new to the timeshare industry and just had a stay in Hilton Head.  After this I was planning to buy in at 1500 points.  Now this does NOT seem like a good idea.  Is that a good appraisal?
> Cost of the plan is $13,800 + $596(closing costs), then $50/mo maint.  fee.
> 
> Concern is:
> 1. if I banked 1500 for a year and had 3000 points every 2 years, what kind of place could I get?
> Thanks,
> Russ



Russ, welcome to TUG, and please take your time in studying this -- it's very difficult to justify the purchase price of $9.20 that Marriott is asking, plus the $0.40 in MFs.    I think many many of the existing properties could be rented directly from the owner for the equivalent of $0.40/point on redweek.com -- so why pay the up-front (except that the system provides flexibility/cancelation protection).

I also encourage you to consider a resale week -- but you would be outside of the points system, which may or may not be important.

There is a points chart in one of these threads, but as an example, to go to Marriott Ko Olina and get a Mountain View 2BR requires 4,575 points in the better seasons -- an Ocean View is 5,725 points.  Unfortunately, 3,000 points every other year may preclude you from doing what you want to do (and you're paying $600 every year for that).

Please keep researching....



LAX Mom said:


> I am very interested to see the response to your ebay listing. Please report back and tell us if anyone bids.
> 
> If ebay isn't the best place to rent points where else do you think would be a good option?



I really hope that TUG develops a sub-forum specifically for renting points.  I don't think the Exchange Marketplace is well suited to points rentals -- at WMOwners, there is a forum specifically devoted to points rentals and it's extremely helpful -- at any time, you can see the points available for rent, when they expire, and what asking price is -- and then they're redited when they're no longer available.   

*It would be in TUG's best interest to become the points rental spot of choice for Marriott points owners.  *It's the future of Marriott vacationing and will become incredibly valuable to skimmed points owners and retail points purchasers who didn't buy enough points.

Good luck to all,

Greg


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## cbdmvci

GregT said:


> *It would be in TUG's best interest to become the points rental spot of choice for Marriott points owners.  *It's the future of Marriott vacationing and will become incredibly valuable to skimmed points owners and retail points purchasers who didn't buy enough points.
> 
> Good luck to all,
> 
> Greg



I agree with Greg.  TUG could and should be THE place for a MDCP rental marketplace.

Or even several boards!  Why several boards?  Wouldn't it be great if the market place started to develop a defacto pricing schedule.  Short just a few points (under 500) to rent to do a trip you want: rent them on this board for $1 each.  Need a larger amount (500-1500): rent them on this board for $.70 each.  Need a whole week's worth: rent them on this board for $.35 each.

If such a liquid marketplace developed, that would be enough to tip me towards enrolling.

And TUG would be in another business ... because you would have to be a member to get on those boards.


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## Herb33

*Greg T:*

Your e-Bay listing makes it clear that you must be a Destinations Club member (Trust Owner) to take advantage of your offer.  

Not just anyone can rent these points on the 'secondary' market. 

This fact might not be obvious to everyone who might be casually browsing these pages for pros & cons of the new program.  

Just thought I'd mention it.  Hope you don't mind.

Herb

PS -- I'm very interested to see the results of your experiment.


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## cbdmvci

Herb33 said:


> *Greg T:*
> 
> Your e-Bay listing makes it clear that you must be a Destinations Club member (Trust Owner) to take advantage of your offer.
> 
> Not just anyone can rent these points on the 'secondary' market.
> 
> This fact might not be clear to everyone who is casually browsing these pages for pros & cons of the new program.
> 
> Just thought I'd mention it.  Hope you don't mind.
> 
> Herb
> 
> PS -- I'm very interested to see the results of your experiment.



I don't understand, Herb.  If if have enrolled owner points and I rent trust points from Greg, can't I reserve from non-trust deposited inventory with the combined points?

And haven't we also seen on this board at least a couple of references to suggest that sometimes MVCI is, in fact, taking some trust inventory and depositing it just to meet some enrolled owners' DCPoints reservation requests.  (e.g. http://tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=129429)


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## Herb33

Aaargh ... I thought I was being clearer than that.  Sorry.

I'm just saying that someone who rents Greg's points who is NOT a member of this new MVC points program won't be able to do anything with them.

Maybe I should've just quoted from Greg's listing ...

"This is an auction to purchase for single use Marriott Vacation Club Destinations points in the new Marriott points system -- and you must already be enrolled in the new program to utilize them."​


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## rpw

*I guess I'm kind of amazed?*

There appears to be a basic assumption that if you have trust points you can get any room any time you want?  Ignoring the fact that there are only so many rooms in a specific property, Marriott only owns a percentage of those rooms?  I'm looking at this new Destinations program as the equivalent to II, if there are no rooms deposited, you don't get a match?  

Am I the doubting Thomas, or am I missing something fairly basic?


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## scpoidog

rpw said:


> There appears to be a basic assumption that if you have trust points you can get any room any time you want?  Ignoring the fact that there are only so many rooms in a specific property, Marriott only owns a percentage of those rooms?  I'm looking at this new Destinations program as the equivalent to II, if there are no rooms deposited, you don't get a match?
> 
> Am I the doubting Thomas, or am I missing something fairly basic?



You are right in the deposits concept, but if the Trust has a lot of unsold inventory (Ko Olina's 3rd tower) + weeks deposits, then there could be more availability than in II.  Also people have mentioned and have great concern that Marriott can go into II's inventory to do a trade for some good weeks, but I'm unclear on that.  It would probably be a lot harder to trade into a resort that has been sold out.


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## BocaBum99

Good luck with your auction.  If you get that price, the Marriott Vacation Club points system is a winner.  Unfortunately, I think you will be lucky to get $.30/point.


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## BocaBum99

I forgot to mention, eBay will cancel your auction because it violates rules for renting timeshares.  You auction must be associate with one and only one resort.  You will be required to state a resort even though points can be used at any of them.  As soon as they find out, they will cancel the ad.


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## WINSLOW

Venter said:


> Seeing that the speculation on TUG is that points will sell for between .40 and .50 dollars the asking price seems a bit ridiculous.




I'm sorry, I don't understand, why would the asking price for renting be the same or lower than the M/F price?  

I rented our ST Kitts for $3400 for the week.  We get 5025pts for that week so if I rented the points we ended up getting $0.676 per point.  Why would I only rent them for the M/F cost, aren't we suppose to try and get some usage cost (inital purchase price cost) back as well?

Is it because there is a limited number of people to rent to (only MDC owners)?

I know that this isn't DVC or probably as popular, but DVC points rent for at least double the M/F costs and it's still alot cheaper than renting from Disney.

Renting MDC points for double the M/F's is still cheaper than renting from Expedia, Hotels.com or Marriott even with the MOD code.  

Do we know if Marriott will be renting single use pts and what they might be charging yet?

Thanks
Crystal


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## scpoidog

BocaBum99 said:


> I forgot to mention, eBay will cancel your auction because it violates rules for renting timeshares.  You auction must be associate with one and only one resort.  You will be required to state a resort even though points can be used at any of them.  As soon as they find out, they will cancel the ad.



That would make a sub-forum for selling/renting points here on TUG very useful.


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## GregT

BocaBum99 said:


> I forgot to mention, eBay will cancel your auction because it violates rules for renting timeshares.  You auction must be associate with one and only one resort.  You will be required to state a resort even though points can be used at any of them.  As soon as they find out, they will cancel the ad.



Thanks for the tip -- I've now added Hawaii into the name.


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## WINSLOW

cbdmvci said:


> I agree with Greg.  TUG could and should be THE place for a MDCP rental marketplace.
> 
> Or even several boards!  Why several boards?  Wouldn't it be great if the market place started to develop a defacto pricing schedule.  Short just a few points (under 500) to rent to do a trip you want: rent them on this board for $1 each.  Need a larger amount (500-1500): rent them on this board for $.70 each.  Need a whole week's worth: rent them on this board for $.35 each.
> 
> If such a liquid marketplace developed, that would be enough to tip me towards enrolling.
> 
> And TUG would be in another business ... because you would have to be a member to get on those boards.




I also think that this would be a great idea to have it here!!

.


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## BocaBum99

WINSLOW said:


> I'm sorry, I don't understand, why would the asking price for renting be the same or lower than the M/F price?
> 
> I rented our ST Kitts for $3400 for the week.  We get 5025pts for that week so if I rented the points we ended up getting $0.676 per point.  Why would I only rent them for the M/F cost, aren't we suppose to try and get some usage cost (inital purchase price cost) back as well?
> 
> Is it because there is a limited number of people to rent to (only MDC owners)?
> 
> I know that this isn't DVC or probably as popular, but DVC points rent for at least double the M/F costs and it's still alot cheaper than renting from Disney.
> 
> Renting MDC points for double the M/F's is still cheaper than renting from Expedia, Hotels.com or Marriott even with the MOD code.
> 
> Do we know if Marriott will be renting single use pts and what they might be charging yet?
> 
> Thanks
> Crystal



Simple.  When owners get behind on their mortgage payments, they find they can't sell it, they have points they aren't going to use, then they take anything that they can get.  I expect to get point for about $.15/point in a year.


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## Stefa

GregT said:


> I really hope that TUG develops a sub-forum specifically for renting points.  I don't think the Exchange Marketplace is well suited to points rentals -- at WMOwners, there is a forum specifically devoted to points rentals and it's extremely helpful -- at any time, you can see the points available for rent, when they expire, and what asking price is -- and then they're redited when they're no longer available.
> 
> *It would be in TUG's best interest to become the points rental spot of choice for Marriott points owners.  *It's the future of Marriott vacationing and will become incredibly valuable to skimmed points owners and retail points purchasers who didn't buy enough points.
> 
> Good luck to all,
> 
> Greg



Another vote for a sub-forum for points rentals.  I would be very interested in renting someone's points and it would be great if I could post an ad stating how many points I needed.   (Note: this isn't a solicitation.  I have my 2011 vacation already booked.  I won't need points until 2012 and can't plan that far in advance.)


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## Y-ASK

DeniseM said:


> Folks - discussing this _in the abstract_ is permitted on TUG - making offers is not.


So why not just delete the entry and PM the poster instead making an example of the dastardly act?

Y-ASK


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## classiclincoln

Read the Ebay ad and I think it's a great idea.  If you can sell all your points for $4,300, the value of the week(s) you enrolled is $4,300.  If it cost you $2,000 to enroll the weeks, you made out like a bandit!  Never thought of that!  Looking at it from a financial standpoint, assuming you paid $2,000 to enroll your weeks to get the 5775 points, as long as you get .35 per point, you made your enrollment fee back.  Nice!


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## Clark

GregT said:


> *It would be in TUG's best interest to become the points rental spot of choice for Marriott points owners.  *It's the future of Marriott vacationing and will become incredibly valuable to skimmed points owners and retail points purchasers who didn't buy enough points.
> Greg



I can think of another site that could easily incorporate such a feature.  What is the notion here -- something showing the number of points an owner is offering, the asking price, the expiration date of the points, and a way to contact the offering party?

Also, I am not entirely clear on the concept of "renting points" ??


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## BocaBum99

Clark said:


> I can think of another site that could easily incorporate such a feature.  What is the notion here -- something showing the number of points an owner is offering, the asking price, the expiration date of the points, and a way to contact the offering party?
> 
> Also, I am not entirely clear on the concept of "renting points" ??



Yeah, www.eBay.com


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## m61376

BocaBum99 said:


> Simple.  When owners get behind on their mortgage payments, they find they can't sell it, they have points they aren't going to use, then they take anything that they can get.  I expect to get point for about $.15/point in a year.


Now that would be the best reason to consider joining yet....


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## GregT

All,

Just an update for the curious -- after 2 1/2 days, the ad has now been viewed 355 times and there are 20 watchers -- but (importantly), no one has contacted me to ask any questions on process or pricing, so I can't tell if any watcher is serious.  

By comparison, the Classified Ad listing that I've running now for 17 days in the Travel Lodging section has had 172 page views and has 3 watchers.   The For Sale section is definitely the place to get the attention.

eBay is an impractical place to rent permanently, since it cost $36 to place the ad (the auction in For Sale) and $11 (in Lodging).    A classified ad was preferred versus the auction but there was a $150 insertion fee for me -- and the experiment isn't worth that!!!

A dedicated forum needs to develop somewhere where people can simply list what they are offering and the asking price (and then edit their thread with RENTED when its no longer available).  I hope TUG takes advantage of the opportunity and develops that sub-forum, since, IMHO, the Marketplace we have isn't optimal.   If TUG doesn't wish to implement a sub-forum, perhaps a dedicated Marriott points marketplace would be a starting point, but only if editable to indicate the points are no longer available.

Best to all, and thanks again for the interest,

Greg


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## DeniseM

Y-ASK said:


> So why not just delete the entry and PM the poster instead making an example of the dastardly act?
> 
> Y-ASK



Specific discussions about your own rentals, are usually not permitted on TUG.  However, since someone other than the owner of the Ad posted it, and it was a new concept that promoted a discussion, I did not close the thread.  After one user made an offer in the thread, past experience indicated that it was a good idea to clarify the rules in the thread, before more offers were made.

Per TUG rules - if you have any other questions about moderating, please contact the Mod privately.


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## NJDave

BocaBum99 said:


> Good luck with your auction.  If you get that price, the Marriott Vacation Club points system is a winner.  Unfortunately, I think you will be lucky to get $.30/point.



I would be willing to pay up to $.30 per point if I needed 1,000 points to top off my account to get the exchange I wanted (I am not enrolled so this is not an offer).

Since we generally don't rent Marriotts as an Marriott owner, I would not pay the going rental price to obtain an entire exchange.  

It would be interesting to hear what others would be willing to pay.


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## scpoidog

GregT said:


> All,
> 
> Just an update for the curious -- after 2 1/2 days, the ad has now been viewed 355 times and there are 20 watchers -- but (importantly), no one has contacted me to ask any questions on process or pricing, so I can't tell if any watcher is serious.
> 
> By comparison, the Classified Ad listing that I've running now for 17 days in the Travel Lodging section has had 172 page views and has 3 watchers.   The For Sale section is definitely the place to get the attention.
> 
> eBay is an impractical place to rent permanently, since it cost $36 to place the ad (the auction in For Sale) and $11 (in Lodging).    A classified ad was preferred versus the auction but there was a $150 insertion fee for me -- and the experiment isn't worth that!!!
> 
> A dedicated forum needs to develop somewhere where people can simply list what they are offering and the asking price (and then edit their thread with RENTED when its no longer available).  I hope TUG takes advantage of the opportunity and develops that sub-forum, since, IMHO, the Marketplace we have isn't optimal.   If TUG doesn't wish to implement a sub-forum, perhaps a dedicated Marriott points marketplace would be a starting point, but only if editable to indicate the points are no longer available.
> 
> Best to all, and thanks again for the interest,
> 
> Greg



Thanks for sharing the information.  As this is a new concept it the rental marketplace will definitely need a new home.


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## BocaBum99

GregT said:


> All,
> 
> Just an update for the curious -- after 2 1/2 days, the ad has now been viewed 355 times and there are 20 watchers -- but (importantly), no one has contacted me to ask any questions on process or pricing, so I can't tell if any watcher is serious.
> 
> By comparison, the Classified Ad listing that I've running now for 17 days in the Travel Lodging section has had 172 page views and has 3 watchers.   The For Sale section is definitely the place to get the attention.
> 
> eBay is an impractical place to rent permanently, since it cost $36 to place the ad (the auction in For Sale) and $11 (in Lodging).    A classified ad was preferred versus the auction but there was a $150 insertion fee for me -- and the experiment isn't worth that!!!
> 
> A dedicated forum needs to develop somewhere where people can simply list what they are offering and the asking price (and then edit their thread with RENTED when its no longer available).  I hope TUG takes advantage of the opportunity and develops that sub-forum, since, IMHO, the Marketplace we have isn't optimal.   If TUG doesn't wish to implement a sub-forum, perhaps a dedicated Marriott points marketplace would be a starting point, but only if editable to indicate the points are no longer available.
> 
> Best to all, and thanks again for the interest,
> 
> Greg



The 20 watchers are other Marriott owners trying to see if your experiment works.  They want to know if the rental market exists so that they can profit from it, too.

Sadly, the price point you have set is way too high.  What you should do is put an auction up with a $1 opening bid.  There are so many people watching it now, that you will be able to determine an approximate market value by doing it.  My guess is that it is between $.20-.30/point.  Won't be hard to get them wholesale at around $.15.  But, that is just my guess.  We need more participants before this will take off.  It will take 6-12 months for there to be a critical mass of enrolled members.


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## SMB1

GregT said:


> Venter,
> 
> Thank you -- you are correct it is my auction, and it is an experiment that I'm running.  Personally, I think one of the most important things about the Marriott system is the ability to transfer points.
> 
> We had a separate thread speculating on what rental values would settle at, and I offered (and continue to believe) $0.30 - $0.60 is the right range.  But some, (mostly non-TUGgers) speculated that it could reach $1.00 per point, which seems extremely high to me.
> 
> I've been waiting for someone to pick up the ad because I am interested to hear the dialogue around the framework I've created.  I've actually been running the experiment for 2 weeks now (but was restricted to Lodging until I figured out how to move it over to For Sale).  It's made a big difference in Viewers -- original ad was 153 viewers with 3 watchers, current ad (after 6 hours) is 24 Viewers with 1 watcher.
> 
> So, this really is an experiment -- my current thought on why so little contact are as follows (but too early for conclusions):
> 
> 1) Renting points is still a new concept in the Marriott world
> 2) $0.75 - $1.00 is (much) too high
> 3) 2012 is too far off for people to be planning about now
> 4) eBay is not a good forum for people to check (Lodging at least)
> 
> One of the big reasons I enrolled is because I believe transferring points is very very powerful.   I expect it will take time for a market to develop, but why own (more) points if you can rent them cheaply (and I don't mean $1.00)?
> 
> I'm just curious if there's anyone out there who bought 1,500 points and now realizes they can't do anything with them and figures out it's better to rent them for $0.75 (or $0.60 or $0.50).
> 
> I'm just curious.  Thanks for picking it up, I figured I'd post on it when the listing ended to avoiding appearance of promoting it.  It really is an experiment and I value TUGgers input.
> 
> And the thoughts on the numbers of points available to rent out are that I would still have 4,450 points left over, which can get me 5 nights in MOC Lahaina Mtn/Garden, which I think is a good points value to piggyback onto my other week.
> 
> Thanks again!
> 
> Greg



Greg, VERY interesting experiment!  I'm interested both as a buyer and as a seller.  As a matter of fact it seems as though unless is right around .35-45 pionts, which would seem to be about a wash, one could be happy with either end of the spectrum.  I would be happy to rent/sell points at a decent profit.  I would also be happy to rent/buy several hundred or a thousand points to add 2 or 3 nights to a weeks reservation at .20-.30 per point.


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## jimf41

Boca,

I've read your posts about resale points being worth .20 t0 .30 cents per point. I'm curious as to how you arrived at this number. It seems awfully low to me. I have a Plat OS 2bdrm unit at Ocean Point. If I turn it in for points I get 4325. At .20 PP resale rental that would net me $865, at .30 PP it would get me $1297, at .15 PP "wholesale" it would get me $650. The MF are about $1250 on this unit, the average rental asking price on Redweek is about $2000. Why would anyone turn in for points and then rent them for $700 to $1300 less than a straight week rental? I don't think there has ever been a 2bdrm unit rent for less than the MF 12 months out. 

At Ocean Pointe at least, I don't think your point value estimates are accurate.

There won't be many last minute point rental deals IMO because folks that use points are going to use them at least 12 months out. You can't get a good deal on a last minute distressed week because you have to use the points as points.


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## camachinist

Running my past revenues at NCV and comparing to the current points charts, anyone who could rent points for under .60/pt for gold and under .50/pt for platinum would be dollars ahead, presuming full week stays.

Also, with the current dynamic of disappearing inventory in MARSHA, it is possible that owner rentals will see increased demand, depending on how the points system impliments. The casual user, which all of my historical tenants have been, IMO, will be more likely to rent for cash from an owner (or Marriott, through MARSHA) rather than play the points game. They see a week/use period they like and rent it for cash, if the price is right. 

Also, when I see 'for sale' and 'resale', I think 'own'. I don't get the impression we're talking about 'buying' points in this thread, rather 'renting' them to make a reservation for occupancy. Please correct me as appropriate. My numbers were regarding renting.


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## BocaBum99

jimf41 said:


> Boca,
> 
> I've read your posts about resale points being worth .20 t0 .30 cents per point. I'm curious as to how you arrived at this number. It seems awfully low to me. I have a Plat OS 2bdrm unit at Ocean Point. If I turn it in for points I get 4325. At .20 PP resale rental that would net me $865, at .30 PP it would get me $1297, at .15 PP "wholesale" it would get me $650. The MF are about $1250 on this unit, the average rental asking price on Redweek is about $2000. Why would anyone turn in for points and then rent them for $700 to $1300 less than a straight week rental? I don't think there has ever been a 2bdrm unit rent for less than the MF 12 months out.
> 
> At Ocean Pointe at least, I don't think your point value estimates are accurate.
> 
> There won't be many last minute point rental deals IMO because folks that use points are going to use them at least 12 months out. You can't get a good deal on a last minute distressed week because you have to use the points as points.



It won't be you who will rent points for $.15/point.  It will be someone who converted to points and can't figure out what to do with them.  I said the price range is just a guess.  I base my guess based on other systems that have points and can transfer that I have experience with.


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## GregT

BocaBum99 said:


> The 20 watchers are other Marriott owners trying to see if your experiment works.  They want to know if the rental market exists so that they can profit from it, too.
> 
> Sadly, the price point you have set is way too high.  What you should do is put an auction up with a $1 opening bid.  There are so many people watching it now, that you will be able to determine an approximate market value by doing it.  My guess is that it is between $.20-.30/point.



I definitely agree -- the vast majority of the watchers have to be curious if there is a rental market (yet).  I also agree that $1.00 is too high, but I'm not so sure about the $0.75 buy it.  That may entice someone and a part of the experiment (especially if they just paid $9.20 and are paying $0.40/point -- a $0.35 premium isn't outrageous where there are limited renting options of big point blocks).



SMB1 said:


> Greg, VERY interesting experiment!  I'm interested both as a buyer and as a seller.



What is interesting (to me at least) is that if rental prices are high, then I'm a rentor.

If rental prices are low (as per Boca's prediction) than I am a rentee for the points system.

I still think it settles on a range of $0.30 - $0.60, based primarily on the time remaining until the point expires.

I suspect it will take time for all of this to evolve, but it's interesting to speculate.

All the best,

Greg


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## NJDave

GregT said:


> .
> 
> I still think it settles on a range of $0.30 - $0.60, based primarily on the time remaining until the point expires.




At $.30 per point, I would buy points.  At $.60, I would sell.   However, selling Orlando for $1,590 ($.60 x 2,650) sounds too good to be true.


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## GregT

TUGgers,

To close out the experiment (or at least this phase), the auction ended without any bids.

There were 740 page views, 26 watchers and 2 questions -- both from individuals that were pretty unfamiliar with the points system.    

I still believe my original comments in Post #2 that points rentals are still unfamiliar to Marriott users and $0.75 - $1.00 is too high a price for points.  I continue to think $0.30 - $0.60 is the right range for points rentals once a market develops and settles.   

All the best,

Greg


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## Bill4728

camachinist said:


> Running my past revenues at NCV and comparing to the current points charts, anyone who could rent points for under .60/pt for gold and under .50/pt for platinum would be dollars ahead, presuming full week stays.
> 
> Also, with the current dynamic of disappearing inventory in MARSHA, it is possible that owner rentals will see increased demand, depending on how the points system impliments. *The casual user, which all of my historical tenants have been, IMO, will be more likely to rent for cash from an owner (or Marriott, through MARSHA) rather than play the points game. They see a week/use period they like and rent it for cash, if the price is right.
> *


I agree that for a casual tenant, they don't want to rent points then use them to make a reservation. They want a week at a resort with a clear price.  

BUT to the educated Marriott DC owner, renting points may sometimes make sense.


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## windje2000

GregT said:


> TUGgers,
> 
> To close out the experiment (or at least this phase), the auction ended without any bids.
> 
> There were 740 page views, 26 watchers and 2 questions -- both from individuals that were pretty unfamiliar with the points system.
> 
> I still believe my original comments in Post #2 that points rentals are still unfamiliar to Marriott users and $0.75 - $1.00 is too high a price for points.  I continue to think $0.30 - $0.60 is the right range for points rentals once a market develops and settles.
> 
> All the best,
> 
> Greg



One other factor that may have affected your auction is borrowing of future year points by the early adopters needing supplemental points for current reservations.

Whether or not borrowing for supplemental points needs changes over time to point rental remains to be seen.  I doubt Marriott is going to champion a vigorous point rental market.  Borrowing locks members in, provides future weeks and creates the opportunity for forfeitures if points 'remnants' are not used.


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## DanCali

GregT said:


> I continue to think $0.30 - $0.60 is the right range for points rentals once a market develops and settles.



At this range, especially the lower end, there is absolutely no need to buy points with a  large upfront cost and $0.40 in MFs. Even if you think the points exchange is great, just enroll a week and then rent points to supplement the points you are missing to get where you want to go. A new buyer can buy the 1500 point minimum and supplement as needed.

Marriott totally shot itself in the foot by allowing owners to transfer points to each other...


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## MOXJO7282

Ebay is not the forum to get the best value, or even the fair market value from a seller's standpoint. Ebay is clearly a buyer's market so I wouldn't put to much stock in the experiment.

If I auctioned off my Maui weeks on ebay I'd probably get $2200. I easily get north of $3k for that same week on RW with a little patience.

I would have used RW. It would have cost you less, hits a better audience, and runs ads run much longer.


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## GregT

DanCali said:


> At this range, especially the lower end, there is absolutely no need to buy points with a  large upfront cost and $0.40 in MFs. Even if you think the points exchange is great, just enroll a week and then rent points to supplement the points you are missing to get where you want to go. A new buyer can buy the 1500 point minimum and supplement as needed.
> 
> Marriott totally shot itself in the foot by allowing owners to transfer points to each other...



Dan,

I agree -- assuming $0.30 - $0.60 confirms as a price rental range, this would damage the argument to buy points.   Buying a timeshare direct has always been a questionable proposition, but at least in the old days you had a deed to show for it.

Other timeshares (Wyndham) have done away with the ability to transfer points between owners because they realized it was competition.  But Wyndham doesn't care about infuriating its owners, and therefore made the change (and other changes too).   We'll find out over time if Marriott takes away the ability to transfer points, to eliminate the ability to compete in accessing points.

Interesting stuff,

Best to all,

Greg


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## GregT

MOXJO7282 said:


> Ebay is not the forum to get the best value, or even the fair market value from a seller's standpoint. Ebay is clearly a buyer's market so I wouldn't put to much stock in the experiment.
> 
> If I auctioned off my Maui weeks on ebay I'd probably get $2200. I easily get north of $3k for that same week on RW with a little patience.
> 
> I would have used RW. It would have cost you less, hits a better audience, and runs ads run much longer.



Joe,

Good points -- one of the issues (I think) is the idea is still so new that there isn't an obvious place to place rental ads.  I'll probably re-run the experiment to give people the opportunity to make offers, so I can try to generate more data points.  It's interesting to me because at one end of the range, I'll rent out points, at the other end of the range, I'll rent in points.

Redweek isn't yet set up to accomodate Marriott points rentals as their isn't a centralized place for it (that I've found at least).

I wish TUG would develop a sub-forum but I get the impression that it's too commercial for TUG's interest.  The TUG marketplace isn't yet set up to accomodate Marriott points, so once it is, perhaps it will be the best of the options.

Thanks very much,

Greg


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## taffy19

GregT said:


> Dan,
> 
> I agree -- assuming $0.30 - $0.60 confirms as a price rental range, this would damage the argument to buy points. Buying a timeshare direct has always been a questionable proposition, but at least in the old days you had a deed to show for it.
> 
> Other timeshares (Wyndham) have done away with the ability to transfer points between owners because they realized it was competition. But Wyndham doesn't care about infuriating its owners, and therefore made the change (and other changes too). We'll find out over time if Marriott takes away the ability to transfer points, to eliminate the ability to compete in accessing points.
> 
> Interesting stuff,
> 
> Best to all,
> 
> Greg


I believe that Marriott will allow it on a few occasions when you are short or over points yourself but that they will stop it immediately when owners are doing it on a regular basis because you are competition to their sales department. Wasn't that documented already?

Is it legal for them to stop it, if you own points? They cannot stop you from renting your own timeshare week as it is private property under real estate law. Do points fall under real estate law too?

I know that I would rather rent points than own them with yearly maintenance fees.

PS.  Can a person, who isn't enrolled, rent points too or not?


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## dioxide45

GregT said:


> I wish TUG would develop a sub-forum but I get the impression that it's too commercial for TUG's interest.  The TUG marketplace isn't yet set up to accomodate Marriott points, so once it is, perhaps it will be the best of the options.



I dont' know what you mean that the TUG Marketplace isn't setup for Marriott MVCD point rentals. I have seen this mentioned in other threads. There is a point rental section listed in the TUG Marketplace. Nothing special needs to be done, no sub forum. Marriott doesn't deserve its very own section. Here is the link to that section.


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## GregT

iconnections said:


> I believe that Marriott will allow it on a few occasions when you are short or over points yourself but that they will stop it immediately when owners are doing it on a regular basis because you are competition to their sales department.
> 
> PS.  Can a person, who isn't enrolled, rent points too or not?



Marriott does state that you can transfer points between accounts -- and unless they take that away, it's a perfect vehicle to facilitate the rental of points.    That is the big question -- if they will take it away someday if they feel it impacts their ability to sell points???

And no, if someone isn't enrolled, they can't rent points because the rented points can't be transferred to them.

Lots to still learn about this system!




dioxide45 said:


> I dont' know what you mean that the TUG Marketplace isn't setup for Marriott MVCD point rentals



Thank you -- this may one day work if they add Marriott as a points system (so you can search for Marriott listings) but right now, they only have other points systems (Worldmark, Marriott Asia Pacific, RCI, etc.) and I can't seem to find Marriott.    Maybe I'm just spoiled by the way it works on WMOwners, which is very very easy.....

Thanks again!


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## windje2000

GregT said:


> Marriott does state that you can transfer points between accounts -- and unless they take that away, it's a perfect vehicle to facilitate the rental of points.
> 
> *That is the big question -- if they will take it away someday if they feel it impacts their ability to sell points???
> *



The corollary question is -- will their ability to sell points be affected IF they take that away.


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## richbrowne1

Greg, great job with the auction!  I hope you don't mind but I'm going to steal you description (I couldn't do it better) and give it a try.  Let's see what happens.


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## pharmgirl

anything new for renting points? Does marriott rent any points?

 I'm tempted to join but calculated I would need about 500 additional points to get the week I want [a 3 bedroom]
Don't want to borrow points from next year as i see this as starting a continuous shortfall


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## GregT

pharmgirl said:


> anything new for renting points? Does marriott rent any points?
> 
> I'm tempted to join but calculated I would need about 500 additional points to get the week I want [a 3 bedroom]
> Don't want to borrow points from next year as i see this as starting a continuous shortfall



Pharmgirl,

There have been other isolated transactions in addition to mine.   RichBrowne1 had success renting his 2011 points in multiple smaller blocks at $0.55 per point. 

We've still not found an easy place to post what's available for rent -- WMOwners has a wonderful subforum (for Worldmark point rentals) where it is easy to see the supply and demand, I expect a similar one will develop somewhere on the internet.

So, no high profile other activity has developed yet that I am aware of, but I continue to believe that points rentals will become more common, as they are with Worldmark.   I don't know how long it will take, by the time I bought Worldmark in 2005, it was a mature system and there were many owners with excess points.

Good luck to you!

Greg


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## boettcht

If one was interested in purchasing additional Marriott Vacation Points from another owner for the 2012 year what would be the best place? I've done many searches on Google, EBay & forums and can't seem to find anything other than discussions about the rental/trade system. Any help in directing me a market place would be greatly appreciated!


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## GregT

boettcht said:


> If one was interested in purchasing additional Marriott Vacation Points from another owner for the 2012 year what would be the best place? I've done many searches on Google, EBay & forums and can't seem to find anything other than discussions about the rental/trade system. Any help in directing me a market place would be greatly appreciated!



Welcome to TUG!  I'll send you a PM to try to assist, but a robust point rental market will take time to develop.  I hope you are able to find the points you need from one of the websites I send to you!

Best,

Greg


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## boettcht

GregT said:


> Welcome to TUG!  I'll send you a PM to try to assist, but a robust point rental market will take time to develop.  I hope you are able to find the points you need from one of the websites I send to you!
> 
> Best,
> 
> Greg



Thanks for the welcome! Still fairly new at the timeshare, my wife and I purchased a Marriott week in St. Thomas in 2009 and just enrolled in the VCP program.

 Haha... after making a post and replying I realized you had listed one of the sites I had found.


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## Tom M

*Pictures of Marriott Cypress Harbor*

Sorry..Mis-postged


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## aperkins7

*deleted*

_post deleted--sorry, ads are not allowed in this forum. Ads may be placed in the TUG Marketplace or last minute rental forum subject to forum rules._


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## johnnytravels

the rental value is greater if you make a reservation first.

if you do the 5 day stay sun-thurs you can get a lot out of 1500pts


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