# 13 Month Rule/50% Inventory



## Smooth Air (Jan 24, 2007)

One of the main reasons we bought a second Platinum week @ Ocean Pointe was to give us the ability to reserve 13 months in advance (instead of 12). Recently we called to reserve 2 consecutive weeks for 2008. We called on the "release date". We were told that there was no availability! Fully booked! Then we were told that only 50% of the inventory is released for owners booking 13 months in advance. We were told to call back when the "12 month in advance" block is released. So, basically if a person w/ only one week calls b/f me on that day he/she cld get the week & I won't. This does not seem fair. Basically we are back where we started when we only owned one week. I am so upset about this that I want to sell both my weeks. Nobody at Marrioot told us that they only release 50% of the inventory to multiple week owners. I was told that it was "in my documents". Am I the only Owner who missed this important piece of information?


----------



## Y-ASK (Jan 24, 2007)

I don't own but !'m real close to purchasing.  I too thought that the entire inventory was open to everyone that owned two timeshares at the 13 month date.  Guess there's no need to purchase two resales now is there...  But I can kind of understand the policy.  I mean people who purchase one timeshare have paid a great deal of money as well.

Y-ASK


----------



## Smooth Air (Jan 24, 2007)

Hi, Y-Ask! Of course, one week owners should be able to reserve a week! If they couldn;t then what's teh point of owning & paying all of that money? My point is that even if *all* of the multiple week owners reserved 13 months in advance, there wld still be weeks left for the one week Owners. Maybe somebody can explain to me why only 50% is available for multiple week Owners. Can anybody say somethng that will help me calm down here. I feel as if I have been misled by Marriott. It's not a good feeling. But, what I am most upset about is that we won't get that 2 weeks that we need ( it is the first week of the 2 week reservtaion that is not available).


----------



## Dean (Jan 24, 2007)

smoothair said:


> One of the main reasons we bought a second Platinum week @ Ocean Pointe was to give us the ability to reserve 13 months in advance (instead of 12). Recently we called to reserve 2 consecutive weeks for 2008. We called on the "release date". We were told that there was no availability! Fully booked! Then we were told that only 50% of the inventory is released for owners booking 13 months in advance. We were told to call back when the "12 month in advance" block is released. So, basically if a person w/ only one week calls b/f me on that day he/she cld get the week & I won't. This does not seem fair. Basically we are back where we started when we only owned one week. I am so upset about this that I want to sell both my weeks. Nobody at Marrioot told us that they only release 50% of the inventory to multiple week owners. I was told that it was "in my documents". Am I the only Owner who missed this important piece of information?


It is 50% of available inventory.  And while you may not have gotten what you wanted, you are still ahead of many of the single week owners for 2 weeks if you want them consecutively.  As more and more people figure this out, it will likely get harder but will be harder still for 12 month reservations.


----------



## Dave M (Jan 24, 2007)

I don't believe Marriott lied to you. It's impossible in a 90-minute sales presentation to cover every detail that is in the legal documents you were given. That's why it's very important to study those documents as soon as you can within the recision period. If there are any provisions you can't live with or don't understand, you'll still have time (next time) to ask questions or rescind your purchase.

I have the legal documents in front of me for three resorts - Custom House, Grande Ocean and Grand Chateau. All three have wording similar to the following (with respect to reserving 13 months in advance):





> ...no more than fifty percent (50%) of the available non-Developer inventory for each Use Period can be reserved more than one (1) year in advance in this manner.



What is the purpose for such a provision? To ensure that there will be some popular weeks available for those who own only one week. I understand your concern. Imagine, however, the concern of single week owners if none (!) of the holiday and vacation weeks were available for single-week owners because every single such week was reserved by multiple-week owners! Marriott would have a revolt! This way, there is a preference for multiple-week owners, but just like the Marriott internal exchange priority, it’s just that – a preference, not an absolute right to the exclusion of all others. With such a rule, every owner within a season has at least some chance to reserve any week within that season. That doesn’t seem unfair.

What likely happened in your situation is that a significant number of people called in a week or more before you did, asking for at least one earlier week than the first one you wanted as well as the week you wanted. 

Many people have figured out how to play the 13-month reservation game very inexpensively, such as described in this current thread. Should you have to do something like that? Of course not! But whenever there are rules, there will be many people who figure out how to manipulate those rules to their advantage and to the disadvantage of others.


----------



## Smooth Air (Jan 25, 2007)

Hi, Dave: Thank you for your explanation. What does " non-Developer" Inventory mean?

In order for multiple week owners to reserve every week, wouldn't the entire resort have to be owned by multiple week Owners? In that case, there wld be no single week Owners to revolt!


----------



## Dave M (Jan 25, 2007)

Non-Developer weeks are the weeks that you, I and the other owners own. Developer weeks are the weeks that Marriott still owns and, thus, are not available to us to reserve. Marriott rents those or saves them in case that week is sold. 

There are some limitations in the documents that prevent Marriott from blocking all of the good weeks with its Developer weeks. For example, at Grand Chateau, Marriott cannot reserve _any_ weeks until 12 months in advance.

As for your "reserve every week" question, assume a 52-week Platinum season. Also assume that there is no 50% limitation on how many units can be reserved 13 months in advance for a given week. Also assume that the most popular weeks at our mythical resort are Presidents' Day, Spring break, Easter, Memorial Day, eight weeks during the summer, Thanksgiving and two weeks at the end of the year - a total of 15 weeks and encompassing virtually all school vacation weeks. 

Now assume the multiple-week owners call and reserve all of those holiday/vacation weeks 13 months in advance of each week. To make matters worse, an owner might reserve (for example) Easter week at two different resorts where he/she owns, planning to rent one of them. Since less than a third of the weeks in the year fall into these popular school vacation periods, it's easy to see that by the time the one-week owners could call at 12 months in advance, there would never be a holiday or school vacation week available for any single week owner. All that will be left are the weeks during the school year. What’s the sense of being a single week owner if there is virtually zero chance of getting a school vacation week?


----------



## PerryM (Jan 25, 2007)

*How to play this game...*

Smoothair,

Your impression of the 50% inventory 13 months out is not quite correct – what you said is correct but there is much much more to the story…

I’m telling you this not to ruin your day but to teach you how to beat other Marriott owners to that reservation you want.

Many Marriott owners own not just 2, but 3 or 4 or …10 Marriott weeks.  These folks know how to work the Marriott system – so here is how it really works (I’ll use the Maui Ocean Club as an example):

The original Maui Ocean Club has weeks 1 – 51 as Platinum and week 52 is a fixed Platinum holiday week; Link: http://www.vacationclub.com/common/vc/en-us/resorts/mh/pdfs/mh_calendar_MML.pdf


You want week 51, Christmas week, at the Maui Marriott.  That jovial Marriott salesrep whispered in your ear “Spend every Christmas in Maui” – well you now want to make a reservation.  Let’s say that there are 200 Maui villas of which 100 will be available 13 months out and 100 12 months out.  This sounds logical but in reality the inventory can be all gone for both release dates!  How you ask?

Let’s describe Joe Smart who knows how all this works.  He owns 4 Platinum Maui weeks that he bought resale and he is also the proud owner of 2 Bronze Marriott’s Grande Ocean which go for $5,000 on MyResortNetwork.com right now.  Link: http://www.vacationclub.com/common/vc/en-us/resorts/gr/pdfs/gr_calendar.pdf

Here’s what Joe Smart is going to do – 13 months and 2 weeks before week 51 at Maui he is going to call Marriott and book the following:

1 Bronze week 49 at Grande Ocean
1 Bronze week 50 at Grande Ocean
4 Platinum week 51’s at Maui

As you see 4 weeks are already gone from the initial 100 of the 13 months out inventory.  There are enough folks who do this that all 100 villas could be gone and if some folks miss out on the 13 month they can call in 12 months + 2 weeks and deplete the 12 month inventory.

Joe Smart will rent out 2 of the Christmas Maui weeks and pay for all the MF’s and make a profit on top of it.  Joe is going to have a family reunion so he needs just 2 of the 4 Maui weeks for his own use.

What I described goes on all the time – didn’t the jovial Marriott salesrep tell you?  I’ll bet his counterpart at Grande Ocean is selling Bronze weeks to hook up with many week 51’s and week 52’s out there.

Yes, folks who own week 52 at Maui may play the same game – they want Saturday check-in and not Friday or Sunday – they buy a “throw away” week somewhere and sneak in ahead of other Marriott owners too.

So this is how to play this game – it takes additional Marriott weeks and their MFs but if you want to get to a hot holiday week or check-in day you must learn how this is done.

Hope this helps, just buy a “Throw away” week (2 for Maui) and you can play the same game.

P.S.
I don't know how many folks own at Maui - 52 weeks * 200 villas = 10,400 or so owners; that Marriott salesrep whispered "Spend Christmas in Maui - it's just a Platinum week" to all 10,400 of them.  Want to bet a lot of them will do just about anything to bring the family to Maui in the winter when the kids are off of school?


----------



## Smooth Air (Jan 25, 2007)

Educating Smooth Air! Wow! I am feeling *so stupid*, guys. And, I thought that I knew what I was doing.   

So, do you think there is any hope that I will get that week that I want? Maybe through a cancellation or Divine Intervention??


----------



## Big Matt (Jan 25, 2007)

Perry's example is a good one, but there could be an even simpler one with this situation.

Take a resort with a very long platinum season (all Orlando Marriotts).  Now take a week that is unbelieveably popular (Christmas week for fun with Mickey).  50% of the inventory for that week is probably only about 3-5% of the total inventory for the entire platinum season.  Just doing the math in reverse says that there could possibly be 20-30 times more potential people wanting to reserve that week than units.  That's just for the 13 month folks.  The number climbs even more when the 12 month folks get involved.

The same example could be used for Manor Club (July 4th week).


----------



## m61376 (Jan 25, 2007)

Perry- I just want to make sure I understand what you are saying correctly. I knew 13 month inventory was released week(s) earlier depending upon the number of weeks owned. However, are you also saying that 12 month inventory is available week(s) earlier also if you own multiple units and didn't nab it the first time around (effectively giving multiple weeks owners a second round)?

I had thought half the inventory was released only at 12 months and that half would not be available to anyone before the 12 month mark, so that multiple weeks owners and single weeks owners were competing at the same time at that point (of course, if the multiple weeks owners failed to get what they wanted at the 13+ months point).


----------



## PerryM (Jan 25, 2007)

*Play the game and don't fight it; if you want to win*

Every timeshare has strength and weaknesses – it’s our job, as consumers/owners to understand both and maximize the strengths and minimize the weaknesses.  Most of the strengths are proudly proclaimed by the salesreps – they are easy to understand.  It’s the weaknesses that are never discussed and must be thoroughly understood.

THE number 1 weakness of any timeshare is the simple fact that only 1 holiday week is available during the year for  each condo – that can’t be changed and this should be #1 on your list to understand and exploit.

Christmas week at Maui for the same price as a doggy week in October/November is a strength and a weakness at the same time.  Once you get over the shock that other owners are getting that holiday week and you never do, it’s time to either learn the tricks or sell the unit.  Don’t assume that other timeshares are any better.

I love and use WM all the time – it has the same exact problem as Marriott – hot holiday weeks are hard to get.  However, in a capitalistic society how do we normally settle problems as to who gets what?  Cold hard cash is the determining factor.

So as much as you might dislike buying Bronze weeks somewhere else and buying atomic clocks to call in exactly, to the second, when the reservations lines opens, that’s how you must play the game to win.  That Bronze week and atomic clock cost money – that gives you the advantage you need to win.  

Right now there are 30+ Maui weeks for sale on MyResortNetwork.com – the average Platinum 2BR cost (Ocean View) is $39k.  I’m guessing the MF is $1,200.  Well when you buy this week you should consider buying a Bronze week for an additional $5k and a MF of $800.  That put’s your cost at this Marriott at $44k and a MF $2,000.  With this you stand a better chance at getting a holiday week.  To increase your probabilities just add in another Bronze for $5k and MF of $800 or $49k and $2,800 MF.

This MF is still lower than renting the same week during that holiday week from Marriott or even from another owner.  Hold the Marriott’s 5+ years and you can break even when you sell the weeks.

Basically, either Marriott should have made holiday weeks Platinum Plus and charged 50% more or you pay much less by buying Bronze and getting in ahead of the other owners.  Buying the Bronze is cheaper but has the additional MF.

This is why many Marriott owners book not one holiday week, it’s more cost efficient to book multiple holiday weeks at the same time.  They then rent the extra week and pay all the MFs of doing this.  Of course this just makes the situation worse for the other owners – but that’s how you win at this game.

This is how you must look at this weakness in the Maui Marriott – a little cash solves the problem.

M61376,

Multiple Marriott weeks, that can be consecutively booked (one week after the other) and be done anytime, or later, that the first week in the sequence can be booked.  So yes, the first week of the sequence (Week 49 in this case) can book at 13 months or less out (12, 11, 10 moths out).  The following consecutive weeks can always be booked at the same time.

This allows multi week Marriott owners 2 tries at the inventory; 13 month out and 12 month out.  This is why a Maui owner who does not play this game will NEVER get to a holiday week in Maui.

However there are many many more tricks you can use to snap up a hot Marriott week, even if you don’t own multiple weeks – but that’s for another lesson.


----------



## Dave M (Jan 25, 2007)

I have a tremendous amount of respect for Perry. He is one of the most knowledgeable and creative timeshare owners on TUG. However, on this rare occasion he missed the target.

The part of Perry's example that isn't valid is the suggestion that more than 50% of the inventory can be reserved more than 12 months in advance. 50% of the weeks (100 of 200 in Perry's example) are made available at the 13-month mark. When those 100 weeks have been reserved, no more weeks are available. The remaining weeks 100 weeks are then made available at the 12-month mark. That's why *smoothair* was told by the rep "to call back when the "12 month in advance" block is released."

The legal documents for Marriott resorts - at least all that were built within the last 12 years - make this point very clear. Also, you can call Owner Services or any salesperson to verify that at least 50% of the inventory will still be available at 12 months. Thinking that there might be the slightest chance that I am incorrect, I have called two very trusted MVCI people this morning and have confirmed my statements in this post.

It's the double opportunity that gives multiple week owners a huge advantage - the opportunity to reserve at 13 months and, if not successful, the opportunity to try again with all single week owners at 12 months. However, there is no situation where multiple week owners can reserve all inventory for a specific week before the 12-month mark.


----------



## m61376 (Jan 25, 2007)

Dave and Perry- I was just about to post again and then I saw your post Dave, which answered (I think) was I was going to ask Perry. I get that multiple week owners can request at the 13+ mark (the + depending on number of weeks being booked consecutively). What is confusing me is the other 50%- is it released at exactly the 12 month mark for every resort (which is what I think you are saying Dave) or at the 12 month mark for the first resort in the sequence (which I think is what Perry is saying)? On the other hand- I may be misunderstanding both of you


----------



## Dave M (Jan 25, 2007)

Clarifying, I should have stated that 50% of the inventory for a specific week is made available to be reserved 13 months *or more* in advance. By stringing a number of consecutive weeks together in a single reservation phone call, as discussed elsewhere in this thread, a specific week can be reserved much further in advance than 13 months. That's why the first phone call at exactly 13 months might find that no more of the 100 (50% of 200 in Perry's example) weeks are still available to be reserved.


----------



## Dave M (Jan 25, 2007)

m61376 said:


> What is confusing me is the other 50%- is it released at exactly the 12 month mark for every resort (which is what I think you are saying Dave) or at the 12 month mark for the first resort in the sequence (which I think is what Perry is saying)?


It's the first scenario.

Assume 200 units at a resort. 100 can be reserved by multiple-week owners at various times before the 12-month mark, depending on how many weeks owners string together in a reservation. The remaining 100 weeks at that resort are first made available at exactly 12 months out. At that point, any owner can try to reserve those remaining 100 weeks. None of those remaining 100 weeks can be reserved prior to that 12-month mark.


----------



## PerryM (Jan 25, 2007)

*Reservation reservoirs...*

Here’s my actual experience with 12 month reservations:

We owned 5 Platinum Plus weeks and have since sold them – own 1 Gold Summit Watch now – that’s all I need to play Marriott’s game.  My 12 month exchange was made in 2001 and perhaps Marriott has changed the way they handle this – if so I’ve learned something new, and I apologize for the old info.

Of course we should call Marriott and confirm this – however multiple reps must be called to insure that the information is correct.

*There are 2 reservation reservoirs* -1) 13 month out and 2) 12 month out.  In my example 100 weeks are in each.  Unless you concatenate multiple weeks *your reservoir must be “open” to tap into a reservation – FOR THE FIRST WEEK; then all other reservations use the same reservoir number.*

At 13 months + 2 weeks out week 51’s 13 month reservoir is NOT open – however, week 49 at a Bronze week is – the Marriott computers use the 13 month reservoir to tap ALL the reservations strung together.

Same thing happens at 12 months out for week 49 at the Bronze Marriott – the 12 month reservoir is now open and ALL concatenated reservations tap their 12 month reservoir.

I did this in 2001, however, since Marriott has been lambasted with complaints as to how all this works, they may have changed their policy.  I have no interest at this point to spend the time on the phone – I’m sure others have an interest and hopefully will share their knowledge.


----------



## Y-ASK (Jan 25, 2007)

Dave M said:


> The part of Perry's example that isn't valid is the suggestion that more than 50% of the inventory can be reserved more than 12 months in advance. 50% of the weeks (100 of 200 in Perry's example) are made available at the 13-month mark. When those 100 weeks have been reserved, no more weeks are available. The remaining weeks 100 weeks are then made available at the 12-month mark. That's why *smoothair* was told by the rep "to call back when the "12 month in advance" block is released."


I think what Perry was saying is that you can apply the same 13 month plus two weeks advantage by using your Bronze weeks to reserve multiple consecutive weeks at the 12 month plus two weeks advantage as well.  He probably explained it better though.

To the OP, re-reading my 1st post in this thread, sorry if I came across badly.  I was sort of agreeing with you although I can understand why Marriott did the 50-50 deal.  Thank you Perry for educating a dumb newbe .  You've been very informative.


----------



## Dave M (Jan 25, 2007)

I agree that there would be no problem making the reservations in your current example, Perry. Confirming, at 13 months + two weeks, you can reserve a week that far out (or further out), as long as you open a "reservoir" by reserving a week that is only 13 months away and then adding as many consecutive weeks after that as desired (and owned). That doesn't change the limitation, as I think you are confirming, that 50% of the weeks are held for those calling at 12 months.

Incidentally, as *pwrshift* has suggested, it's a good idea to insist that each week reserved in that multiple-week reservation at 13 months be given its own reservation number. By doing that, you can easily deposit any single week in the string with II if you should later decide you can't use it.


----------



## m61376 (Jan 25, 2007)

My brain isn't functioning I think. Dave- are you saying then that Perry is correct and you can open a new 12 month "reservoir" so that you effectively book the second week at 12 months +1 week and a third at 12 months + 2 weeks (out of the 12 month pool), or that the second half of weeks does not open until 12 months out, regardless of whether you try to string weeks beforehand?

I hope I'm not the only one who sees this as 2 different scenarios


----------



## Dave M (Jan 25, 2007)

I'm not positive I understand your question. If I do understand correctly, "the second half of weeks does not open until 12 months out, regardless of whether you try to string weeks beforehand."

By example, assume I own 10 weeks at an all-year Platinum resort. Also assume that the week I want most is Thanksgiving, which for 2008 is included in week 47. By reserving all 10 weeks, I can call as early as 15+ months in advance of week 47 to make a string of consecutive week reservations starting with a week that is 13 months out from the first week in the string of consecutive weeks I'll reserve and culminating with week 47 as the last in that string. 

Instead of doing that, I could also call at any other date prior to the 12-month window to reserve a string of consecutive weeks that includes week 47. How early I call will affect whether there are any week 47s still available in the 13-month 50% inventory or whether others have already reserved them all.

However, no matter when I call - 15+ months in advance of week 47 or 12 months + two weeks in advance or 12 months + one day in advance - _I will not be able to reserve any of the weeks in the 50% inventory that is held back until reservations open up for that 50% at exactly 12 months in advance._


----------



## BocaBum99 (Jan 25, 2007)

This is a fascinating game within the Marriott System.  All that planning just to be able to get those prime Holiday weeks.  Yuck.  There has to be a better way.

The root cause of this problem is that any given week within a season is not equal to every other week in the system.  

A better solution would be to set up an auction for spots on a waitlist.  If there are 100 week 51's available at Maui Ocean Club, then set up a dutch auction for all 100 slots.  Highest 100 bidders get to book the week.  Only MOC owners need apply.

Take that extra money and apply it to the maintenance fee pool to reduce owners annual payments.


----------



## m61376 (Jan 25, 2007)

Dave- thanks for the clarification- I thought that was what you were saying. However, I think Perry was contending that as long as the first week in the sequence is at the 12 month mark, you could effectively book a second or third week (etc.) in the sequence at 12 + 1 week or 12 + 2 weeks, etc., tapping into the weeks that were reserved for reservations at 12 months, since the first week in the sequence opened up the 12 month "reservoir." Unless I am misunderstanding his posts, I think Perry was saying that the other 50% reserved for reservations at the 12 month mark could be tapped into earlier by multiple weeks owners.

According to your posts, then, multiple week preference only applies to half the inventory- period- right?

As Perry suggested might be possible, have they changed things since 2001 to account for the difference between both your posts?


----------



## PerryM (Jan 25, 2007)

*Someone call to confirm...*

What Dave is stating is different than my experience back in 2001, I think it was.  I wanted Saturday check-in for week 52 at MountainSide – a Platinum Plus Week.  I also owned a week 51 at MountainSide – a Platinum Plus week too.

I didn’t know about the 13 month rule back then and called in 12 months to the Saturday (for the week 51, this was different back then as to the check-in day) and asked to string both week 51 and 52 together for a Saturday check-in – they did it.

I believe Dave is saying that the 12 month reservoir can NOT be tapped by adding a Bronze week in front of it – if so, this has changed since I last did it.

From a programming stand point it makes no sense to tap the 13 month reservoir for a not yet open week and not do the same for the 12 month reservoir – but it’s Marriott’s system and they can “fine tune” the rules – they do it all the time.

I still recommend that someone call Marriott and speak to a supervisor to confirm all this.  I'm not challenging Dave, I'm confused but since I don't own multiple weeks I'm not sure the supervisor will spend the time with me.


----------



## Dave M (Jan 25, 2007)

I agree that the system fails for many owners when it comes to the really top weeks. It rewards those who spend more money (which is what Marriott wants) and those who learn to play the game by buying cheap throwaway weeks to ensure getting the week they want.

Perry's Marriott points system recomendations of the past could solve some of that problem. However, although Marriott has announced a points program that will target the Asian market and include a number of U.S. resorts, it's not likely that we'll see a option to change to a points program for what we now own - at least not any time soon. There are numerous legal and practical obstacles to such a change. Also, solving the problem is not necessarily in Marriott's best financial interest!


----------



## Dave M (Jan 25, 2007)

PerryM said:


> I didn’t know about the 13 month rule back then and called in 12 months to the Saturday (for the week 51, this was different back then as to the check-in day) and asked to string both week 51 and 52 together for a Saturday check-in – they did it.


That fits. You could do the same today. However, what you were tapping for that week 52 was a week from the 50% that was _available_ at 13 months out. Thus, you could have called as early as 13 months out from week 51 and made the same reservation. In your case, since you called at exactly 12 months in advance of week 51, all that was required was that there was (1) _any_ week available for week 51 and (2) still some inventory left for week 52 in the 50% 13-month inventory. If all of that 13-month inventory had already been reserved, you would have had to call back at 12 months out from week 52 to try to reserve that week.


----------



## CaliDave (Jan 25, 2007)

Perry, 

You have some great ideas to keep costs down and still be able to get Maui for Xmas. 
Would splitting a lockoff work the same way? You can get a Horizons Orlando or Branson lockoff for $6K or so.. and MF's of $700. Split it and book week 49,50, then 51 with Maui?


----------



## PerryM (Jan 25, 2007)

Dave,

When I got both reservations the rep indicated that I was the first to call that morning for week 51 and that week 52 was wide open - I just find it hard to believe that there was 13 month inventory available for week 52.  The only other explanation is that developer inventory was available and they tapped that - that is a real possibility - MountainSide was still under construction at the time.

Unless someone confirms otherwise, I stand corrected - the 12 month reservoir can't be tapped with "throwaway weeks", this is a shame since there is a real possibility of not getting a hot holiday week by having other owners own more “Throwaway weeks” than you do – bummer.


CaliDave,

I believe you can – I’ve not done it but I believe that topic has been brought up before and the conclusion was that a Branson (or any lock off) can be locked off, and one week placed in front of another.  However, the time it takes to lock off may be enough time lost (in seconds) for others to snap up the inventory.


----------



## Dave M (Jan 25, 2007)

m61376 said:


> As Perry suggested might be possible, have they changed things since 2001 to account for the difference between both your posts?


I don't believe there has been a change and I don't believe that Perry tapped into the 12-month inventory. Note that he simply relates that he was successful in reserving a specific week more than 12 months in advance by stringing two weeks together. That's what any multiple-week owner can do as long as there is 13-month inventory available. He has not posted anything to suggest that he was told that all of the 13-month inventory had already been reserved by others.

For those who might want to confirm this on their own, the question to ask is, "Is there any circumstance under which more than 50% of the units for a specific week can be reserved in advance of the 12-month reservations window opening for that specific week?" All of the previously reported experience on this forum, all of the legal documentation I have seen (limited to three resorts), all of my discussions with Marriott personnel (including two conversations this morning) and all of the documentation at the MVCI website indicate that the clear answer is "no".


----------



## CaliDave (Jan 25, 2007)

Actually week 49, 50 in Orlando is Gold, you could probably pick up a week for $4K or so


----------



## Dean (Jan 25, 2007)

My experience so far is more along the line of Perry's.  That the 12 month inventory is reachable 1 to 2 weeks earlier by combining with other weeks at 12 months out from the first week.  And that there are frequently less than 50% of the weeks available exactly 12 months from the check in day.


----------



## Smooth Air (Jan 25, 2007)

Hello, Everybody! I wish we could all GTG over a beer & discuss this. You guys are amazing & I am learning so much!  

Still not clear about the "Throwaway Week". At first I thought you meant that if I want weeks 51 & 52 @ Ocean Pointe (these are Platinum weeks. Platinum @ OP is weeks 1-17 and weeks 51 & 52), then I should buy week 50 which wld be my 3rd week....I already own 2 Platinum making me a "Multiple Week Owner" & eligible for the "13 month" booking rule. Ok, so, I buy week 50. Then I set my atomic clock & I call up 13 months in advance of my check-in date for week 50. I say I want to reserve 3 *consecutive *weeks: Week 50, 51 & 52. But, can I do this? Dave said they have to be in the same season(I think that is what you said)!  I do not know what season week 50 is but it is not Platinum. 

 So, can I have a recap of The Throwaway Week trick??


----------



## jancurious (Jan 25, 2007)

smoothair said:


> But, can I do this? Dave said they have to be in the same season(I think that is what you said)!  I do not know what season week 50 is but it is not Platinum.



Smoothair....they have to be consecutive or concurrent - not necessarily the same season.   I think you have it down now.

Jan


----------



## jesuis1837 (Jan 25, 2007)

to continue with those questions....    Do i need to own 2 weeks from the same resort to be eligible to that 13 months window or can i buy my other week from another Marriott?  Does buying resale excludes you for that 13 months windows?    Thanks!


----------



## jancurious (Jan 25, 2007)

jesuis1837 said:


> to continue with those questions....    Do i need to own 2 weeks from the same resort to be eligible to that 13 months window or can i buy my other week from another Marriott?  Does buying resale excludes you for that 13 months windows?    Thanks!



The weeks do not have to be from the same Marriott resort as long as you are able to book them consecutively or concurrently.  Resale purchases are able to take advantage of this, too.   

Jan


----------



## Smooth Air (Jan 25, 2007)

Buying resale qualifies you for  "13 month" eligibility.


----------



## jesuis1837 (Jan 25, 2007)

:whoopie: 

Stupid question but...  if i buy another week or 2 at other Marriott....  will i get another Marriott owner card number everytime i purchase or can they put them all of my current card?


----------



## Dean (Jan 25, 2007)

jesuis1837 said:


> :whoopie:
> 
> Stupid question but...  if i buy another week or 2 at other Marriott....  will i get another Marriott owner card number everytime i purchase or can they put them all of my current card?


All under one account as long as the ownership is exactly the same.


----------



## jesuis1837 (Jan 25, 2007)

Great! Thanks to all for your help!


----------



## JimH (Jan 26, 2007)

Two more questions:

If your throw away is an EOY, do you get to use the 13 month window EOY?

And, do you have to reside in the units you book? I didn't think depositing a week with AI or renting it out would fly?

Appreciate your help


----------



## Smooth Air (Jan 26, 2007)

So....shd I buy the Season that includes week 50? What Season @ Ocean Pointe includes week 50? 

Jim: I don't think they care if you use it or rent it.
 I know nothing about EOY....do they have it @ Ocean Pointe?


----------



## jowalton (Jan 26, 2007)

*Time difference*

Only being a single Marriott week owner, this topic (or my question for that matter) isn't yet of relevance to me but I was wondering that as I am based in the U.K. and therefore 5 hours ahead of your Eastern time, would any multiple Marriott week U.K. based owner get at least a 5 hour advantage when trying to book these elusive weeks ? 

Jo


----------



## Dave M (Jan 26, 2007)

Jim -

Yes, you can use an EOY as one of the weeks to reserve at 13 months. The key is that your ownership rights must include the week you want to reserve.

In theory, you can't rent out a week that you reserve at 13 months. 
That's because some of the language that Marriott uses states (for example, from the MVCI site):





> If you are a multiple-week owner, who wants to reserve concurrent or consecutive weeks *to occupy*, you may make reservations beginning 13 months prior to the requested check-in date.


However, Marriott has never enforced this rue, which might not be enforceable anyway since it is more restrictive than the language in the legal documents for most (if not all) resorts. 

Accordingly, based on the collective experience of those whop have posted here, you should feel confident that you can rent one or both weeks.


----------



## Dave M (Jan 26, 2007)

Jo -

There is no advantage based on your time zone. 

The opening moment for making reservations via phone or the Internet - whether at 12 months or 13 months - is 9:00 a.m. Eastern Standard Time (or Eastern Daylight Time when that is applicable).


----------



## Dean (Jan 26, 2007)

JimH said:


> Two more questions:
> 
> If your throw away is an EOY, do you get to use the 13 month window EOY?
> 
> ...


For the years you reserve the EOY, you can combine with another week to get the 13 month window assuming concurrent or consecutive weeks.  

Dave quoted the current wording in the reservations explanations.  It is important to note that the "to occupy" emphasis was his.  There has been no indication that Marriott ever intended this to result in any restrictions and especially not to mean that the unit must be occupied by the owner.  All indications are that it is just their way of wording the 13 month option and they never meant for it to place any other restrictions.  I know some want it to mean otherwise.  It's also important to note that all of the Marriott built resorts I know of do give Marriott the right to unilaterally change the reservation rules so this could change at any time.


----------



## Tokapeba (Jan 27, 2007)

This part of it hasn’t been discussed here yet. 


For a resort with Thu, Fri, Sat or Sun check in once the week is open for reservation i.e. Thu, any of the other check in days Fri, Sat or Sun can be reserved.

It’s actually 13 months + the throwaway week from the first day available at the throwaway week? 

The best throwaway week should have Thursday check in?  

Tokapeba.


----------



## mjs (Jan 27, 2007)

Tokapeba said:


> This part of it hasn’t been discussed here yet.
> 
> 
> For a resort with Thu, Fri, Sat or Sun check in once the week is open for reservation i.e. Thu, any of the other check in days Fri, Sat or Sun can be reserved.
> ...



Actually, this is not correct, since all of your reservations will need to have the same DAY OF THE WEEK,   as the check-in day.(example--all Saturdays etc)
Mark


----------



## Dean (Jan 27, 2007)

mjs said:


> Actually, this is not correct, since all of your reservations will need to have the same DAY OF THE WEEK,   as the check-in day.(example--all Saturdays etc)
> Mark


My understanding is the same as Tokapeba.  Since you can now call on Thursday and reserve Friday, Sat or Sunday for that same week you would be able to get a 1 day head start on everyone else for that time.  When you had to call at 12 (or 13) months out from the exact day, a Thursday week would not have given you any advantage for this situation.


----------



## PerryM (Jan 27, 2007)

*Please say yes...*

Ohh, this is cunning, devious and diabolical – tell me more!

Let’s take a concrete example:

You want week 51 on Maui – Saturday check-in day 12/20/08.  Normally the earliest I can book that week, with 2 throwaway weeks in front of it is 11/5/07.

Look at this calendar for reference: http://www.timeanddate.com/calendar/custom.html?year=2008&country=1&wno=1&moon=on&hol=25

I buy a Gold 2BR lock-off throwaway week at Horizons Orlando which has a Thursday check-in.  I lock-off the unit and I put the two weeks back to back and really want to check into Orlando on 12/4/08 (yeah, right)

I call in 11/4/07 and book the two Horizons and then the Maui for 12/20/08.

This works?  Please say yes.


----------



## Smooth Air (Jan 27, 2007)

Perry, don't they have to be the same Season?


----------



## PerryM (Jan 27, 2007)

*Still wondering...*



smoothair said:


> Perry, don't they have to be the same Season?



No.  Here's another link to this topic: http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=22395&highlight=month

As long as the weeks are consecutive you can book Bronze to Platinum Plus if you wish.  However, that gap of 2 days is what I'm asking about - does anyone know if Marriott allows that 2 day gap in the consecutive reservations?  (Thursday to Thursday to Saturday) (consecutive means one after the other, not one, gap, another)


----------



## Dean (Jan 27, 2007)

PerryM said:


> Ohh, this is cunning, devious and diabolical – tell me more!
> 
> Let’s take a concrete example:
> 
> ...


It does.  To use the 13 mo window with a lockoff you have to be using something else also but you can lockoff and string them together to get the 13 month window.   You can't just split a lockoff and reserve at 13 mo out without another unit mixed in.


----------



## PerryM (Jan 27, 2007)

*Gold nugget!*

To recap:

The Gold Horizons’ Orlando is locked-off into a Studio and 1BR, 2 weeks total, but it’s still just 1 Marriott.  You need another Marriott to be able to use the 13 month window.  Marriott, however, does not care which day of the check-in period is used.  E.g. Week 1 (Studio of Orlando) has a Thursday check-in day, Week 2 (1BR of Orlando) has a Friday check-in day, and Week 3, (Maui) has a Saturday check-in day.

I want to make sure I understand the above – the 3 are considered consecutive, even if the check-in days are not.  (I live for this kind of stuff)

Hopefully this is correct and this is a great nugget of knowledge I’ve learned this weekend – thanks guys!

In the case of Horizons’ of Orlando I believe 15% to 20% of the inventory is  lock-off but who the heck wants a Thursday check-in so it should be easy to get (well up until now).


----------



## Smooth Air (Jan 27, 2007)

Perry, if you have "gaps" then  I would think your weeks are not "consecutive".
If Week 1 is Thursday to Thursday & Week 2 is Friday to Friday then you wld have to move out for one night. 
Let's look @ it another way: What if you first week was Friday to friday & you wanted Thursday to Thursday for your 2nd week. Then you wld have an "overlap". 
Maybe if we look @ the timeshare calendar of weeks it will become clearer. I am going to go & take a look at that now.


----------



## PerryM (Jan 27, 2007)

smoothair said:


> Perry, if you have "gaps" then  I would think your weeks are not "consecutive".
> If Week 1 is Thursday to Thursday & Week 2 is Friday to Friday then you wld have to move out for one night.
> Let's look @ it another way: What if you first week was Friday to friday & you wanted Thursday to Thursday for your 2nd week. Then you wld have an "overlap".
> Maybe if we look @ the timeshare calendar of weeks it will become clearer. I am going to go & take a look at that now.



That's why I'm asking if someone has actually done 13 month reservations with gaps between check-out and check-in - does Marriott allow for that?  I could argue it either way - so Marriott's actual policy they use, and not what's written down, could make the difference here.


----------



## Dean (Jan 27, 2007)

PerryM said:


> That's why I'm asking if someone has actually done 13 month reservations with gaps between check-out and check-in - does Marriott allow for that?  I could argue it either way - so Marriott's actual policy they use, and not what's written down, could make the difference here.


No Perry, the actual check in days have to match up exactly.  You can't do a Thursday check in for week 1, a Friday checkin for week 2 and a Sat check in for week 3 for example.  But for a Thursday check in resort as your first week you are reserving, you can call 13 months from Thursday and reserve Friday, Sat or Sun check ins for that and the following weeks assuming the resorts in question all have the appropriate check in days.


----------



## Dave M (Jan 27, 2007)

I agree with Dean. There has been some past discussion on this forum supported by examples concurring with that explanation.


----------



## PerryM (Jan 27, 2007)

*Help me Homer*



Dean said:


> No Perry, the actual check in days have to match up exactly.  You can't do a Thursday check in for week 1, a Friday checkin for week 2 and a Sat check in for week 3 for example.  But for a Thursday check in resort as your first week you are reserving, you can call 13 months from Thursday and reserve Friday, Sat or Sun check ins for that and the following weeks assuming the resorts in question all have the appropriate check in days.




Dhaa, I feel like Homer Simpson -of course you would call in on the Thursday and make all the reservations for Saturday check in.  Sometimes I get too close to a problem.  Thanks.

So to recap:
Buy a Gold Horizons Orlando, request a 2BR lock off, lock it off, call in on the Thursday 13 months + 2 weeks before you really want your reservation and make all 3 reservations for the final week's check-in day; like Saturday.

This is fantastic and if I missed this tidbit before I need to pay more attention.

P.S.
Although I don’t own multiple Marriott weeks, this one trick is worth a fortune to my friends – thanks again everyone!


----------



## AMJ (Jan 27, 2007)

Perry,

One year I tried to reserve Cypress Harbour Thursday to Thursday and Ocean Watch Saturday to Saturday using the 13th month rule. I was told that each week had to have the same check in day. 

Joyce


----------



## Tokapeba (Jan 27, 2007)

I have one more question.

Since the 12 or 13 month rules push the day of the week 1 day forward, (you can call on Thursday 12 or 13 months out if Friday is the first day available for check in.) Can you call on Wednesday on Leap year?

Tokapeba.


----------



## Dave M (Jan 28, 2007)

Although the general answer is yes, it depends on when during leap year you want to reserve. At any rate, that's not the way to think of it. Too easy to make a mistake.

Assume you own at a resort that has Thursday, Friday, Saturday and Sunday check-ins. Also assume that you want to make a reservation for the week with a check-in date of Saturday, *February 9, 2008*. The first check-in date for that weekend is Thursday, *February 7, 2008*.

When can you call? For a single week, you can call on *February 7, 2007*, exactly one year in advance of *February 7, 2008*. For multiple weeks, starting with that 2008 week, you could have called on *January 7, 2007*, exactly 13 months in advance.


----------



## Smooth Air (Jan 28, 2007)

Dave sums it up really well. Think of the *Date* not the  *Day* of the week. 2008 is a Leap Year. So, if you want to check-in on Friday, February 29, 2008 & you are a multiple week owner,then you can call on Jan 29, 2007( 13 months in advance) if your resort has Friday Checkin as first day...Jan 28 if your resort offers Thursday checkin. If you are reserving under the "12 month rule" then it wld be probably be March 1 b/c there is no Feb 29 in 2007!   Or, Feb 28 if you have Thursday check-in. I just called Resrevations to clarify this but I cannot get through. Now that's another story!!


----------



## Dave M (Jan 28, 2007)

smoothair -

See post # 21 in this thread for Marriott's position on when you should call one year in advance of February *29*, 2008.


----------



## Smooth Air (Jan 28, 2007)

Hi, Dave, I went back to #21...can't see it there. ( I am *still *on hold w/ Rez.......


----------



## Smooth Air (Jan 28, 2007)

OMG....time for me to get away from this stuff!!! Dave, you said "this thread" & I thought you meant *this * thread. All I had to do was click on the "blued" line. D'oh! Ok, I get it. Thanks!  And, I just got through & yes, it is March 1st!


----------



## MikeM132 (Jan 28, 2007)

Dave: This is kind of a related question on the 13 month thing. I tried today to see my Hawaii weeks on the MCVI website. They only show up 12 months out. Do you have to call on the phone to use the 13 month thing?


----------



## Dave M (Jan 28, 2007)

Yes. To make reservations at 13-months, you have to call.


----------



## seatrout (Jan 28, 2007)

I try to call in today making Sat-sat reservation.  My resort have a thurs-thurs which begin today ( Sunday.)  I was told that although US location is open on Sunday the international office are not open on Sunday.  Thus even if I could technically call in today, they can not make reservation till Monday so as to give the international people an equal chance.:annoyed:


----------



## Smooth Air (Jan 28, 2007)

Seatrout: What # did you call?


----------



## seatrout (Jan 28, 2007)

smoothair said:


> Seatrout: What # did you call?



Marriot Owner Service  which is open on sunday as below:
I actually try it twice with two diffence rep. and got the same answer.

Monday - Friday, 9 a.m. - 9 p.m. EST
Saturday - Sunday, 9 a.m. - 5 p.m. EST
Reserve Your Marriott Vacation Club International Week
Phone: 800-845-4226 (For U.S. and Caribbean Properties)


----------



## Smooth Air (Jan 29, 2007)

Which resort were you trying to reserve today?(Sunday Jan 28)


----------



## seatrout (Jan 29, 2007)

smoothair said:


> Which resort were you trying to reserve today?(Sunday Jan 28)



you are up late !  I am just waiting for my wife to finish her paperwork- so just surfing

I was trying to get -- studio MGV (sat) 3/1- 3/8  then 3/8-3/15 1BR mgv- then Moutainside 3/15-3/22.  It is the MS that I am really going after.  MGV have thurs check out so 12month is 2/28 and 13month ahead is 1/28


----------



## Smooth Air (Jan 29, 2007)

Seatrout: I am confused by your post. Your profile says that you are in Texas. The resorts you want are in the US so I do not understand the "International" problem that you had today. You shd have been able to access the resorts you want through 800-845-4226.


----------



## JEFF H (Jan 29, 2007)

Rules are enforced in an ideal world.
Reality is rules are often bent, broken or just interpreted or applied differently by different people or organizations. Mistakes are made and things can and do slip thru the cracks.
Nothing is truly Black and white and is almost always an ever changing shade of Grey.
The experienced Timeshare owners know to never take any rule at face value.  Always attempt to push the envelope and play every angle possible.
Never ever take someone else’s failure or success stories as gospel. 
You must play the game yourself and expect to be rejected a couple times before you find an opening and score the reward for being persistent.


----------



## seatrout (Jan 29, 2007)

smoothair said:


> Seatrout: I am confused by your post. Your profile says that you are in Texas. The resorts you want are in the US so I do not understand the "International" problem that you had today. You shd have been able to access the resorts you want through 800-845-4226.



As so am I.  Neverless, I tried it twice and can't do it.

They said it is for the international owner that own US location.


----------



## Steamboat Bill (Jan 29, 2007)

I am reading this thread with great interest.

However, as a "one week" Marriott owner....this method kinda sucks!


----------



## PerryM (Jan 29, 2007)

*Payback is so sweet!*

Just about everything Marriott does is sales oriented – they created this 13 month reservation window to sell more Marriotts – I’m sure it has accomplished that mission.

The ability for sharp owners to buy a cheap resale lock-off with a Thursday check-in kills that advantage for all Marriott owners who don’t own that Thursday check in unit – this is fantastic.  Wouldn't you love to see their expression as they are first to call in that morning, owning may expensive Marriott weeks, and hear "Sorry, all the villas are reserved".

I’m sure that when the Maui owner takes his yearly tour and complains about not getting his desired week the salesrep has got a solution for him “13 month” check-in.  I’m sure the salesrep isn’t plugging any Marriott but Maui (or the Marriott they are touring) and so many Maui owners own many weeks there all trying to get the 4th of July or Christmas or Spring Break – anytime the family can all vacation together.

I’m sure that’s where the rumors start that you can only use 13 month:
1)	At the same resort
2)	Must be the same season

So a little knowledge beats a lot of money – a reason to learn more.

To the 1 week owner; they apparently stand as good a chance at the 12 month window as the guy who was 5 seconds too late 1 month earlier.  So I’d look at it that way.

But, I'm sure, the folks who spent $100k at Maui and still can't get that Christmas week are muttering "No way to run an organization".


----------



## Steamboat Bill (Jan 29, 2007)

PerryM said:


> So a little knowledge beats a lot of money – a reason to learn more.
> 
> To the 1 week owner; they apparently stand as good a chance at the 12 month window as the guy who was 5 seconds too late 1 month earlier.  So I’d look at it that way.
> 
> But, I'm sure, the folks who spent $100k at Maui and still can't get that Christmas week are muttering "No way to run an organization".



I bought a MMC platinum resale for about $8k....I only have one week and I got it pretty cheap.

I would be really pissed if I spent $100k for 2 prime weeks and constantly got shut out...Marriott should really close this loophole.

But in the meantime....perhaps I need to buy a cheap LO and play the game....thanks to all TUG members for this pearl.


----------



## PerryM (Jan 29, 2007)

*One way to look at this is a Golden opportunity!*

If I had a Maui week, I’d buy 2 Gold Horizon Orlando’s and go out 4 weeks and 1 day to that Thursday and then buy another Maui or two and rent them out – but that’s me.  I'd be really smiling that morning getting those Christmas weeks and the revenue they will generate.  If circumstances were different, I'd do exactly that.  (of course I'd not be telling folks how to do this - competition)

I’d bet that when the Maui owner of 2 weeks can’t get Christmas the Marriott salesrep has a simple solution – buy another Maui week.  If the timeshare salesreps know of this trick they certainly would never bring it up – there’s nothing in it for them, I don’t think they can sell Florida themselves, unless they have a current real estate license (?) in Florida.

I doubt that this “loophole” can be plugged, I’m passing it along to my friends – this is a great New Year’s present for them.

This is but one of many weakness that can be used to one’s advantage – not just with Marriott.  This is a fundamental flaw built into timeshares – there is only 1 Christmas week per condo.  This flaw has been addressed by the industry by simply charging a premium price and the developer "evens the playing field" for all the owners.

Marriott screwed up by not making week 51 a Platinum Plus week at Maui (and 4th of July) and charging 50% more than week 50.  So one way to look at this is that you get a bargain price buy buying a cheap Gold 2BR with a Thursday check-in instead of paying $50k more to Marriott.  All those multi-week Maui owners are in for a headache in the future.

Now the salesreps at Horizons’ Orlando can smile – they can sell more Gold weeks and instruct their clients how to do all this.  The National Sales division of Marriott should sell a combo package of Platinum Maui and Gold Horizon's Orlando, and then convince the person to buy more Maui and make a buck or two (opps, they can't do that - right).


----------



## seatrout (Jan 29, 2007)

Steamboat Bill said:


> I bought a MMC platinum resale for about $8k....I only have one week and I got it pretty cheap.
> 
> I would be really pissed if I spent $100k for 2 prime weeks and constantly got shut out...Marriott should really close this loophole.
> 
> But in the meantime....perhaps I need to buy a cheap LO and play the game....thanks to all TUG members for this pearl.



You should not have problem with reservation. In MMC, most summer week are good and the kids have all summer- so one week is almost as good as another. 

Wesgate is long from being sold out.  But when it sold out-- you may have simmilar problems if you only want to reserve Sundance week or Spring break week.  Because of this problem (at Mountainside), My sister brought a fixed week at Wesgate Canyond-- then the school changed the week for spring week  -- so-- she paid more for the fixed week and then now have to pay the Wesgate internal exchange fees to change the week.


----------



## Steamboat Bill (Jan 29, 2007)

seatrout said:


> You should not have problem with reservation. In MMC, most summer week are good and the kids have all summer- so one week is almost as good as another.
> 
> Wesgate is long from being sold out.  But when it sold out-- you may have simmilar problems if you only want to reserve Sundance week or Spring break week.  Because of this problem (at Mountainside), My sister brought a fixed week at Wesgate Canyond-- then the school changed the week for spring week  -- so-- she paid more for the fixed week and then now have to pay the Wesgate internal exchange fees to change the week.



I agree about MMC, but the tricks involved in snagging prime Marriott weeks (Maui, ski weeks) are NOT well known and give an unfair advantage to a few individuals. Yes, TUG members can do well, but these tricks exploit the not so well educated Marriott members and are BAD for the industry. 

I beleive Westgate Park City ski weeks are long sold out...I think they are only selling non-ski weeks. I am not aware of any Westgate tricks like Marriott. 

I may sell my Westgate and Marriotts within 1-2 years as I will now focus my travels on www.HighCountryClub.com destination club and DVC (for Disney). I feel there are less tricks to master and they offer an unbelievable deal for members. 

My vacations revolve around the kids school schedules and getting lucky with trades is easier said than done.


----------



## rockedge (Jan 29, 2007)

*check in*

You've caught my interest. What other Marriott resorts have a thurs check in policy?


----------



## PerryM (Jan 29, 2007)

*Knowledge makes all the difference*



Steamboat Bill said:


> ... but these tricks exploit the not so well educated Marriott members and are BAD for the industry...



Bill,
At Maui there are about 200 villas, same with MountainSide - only 1/2 of them, about 100 are available at the 13 month window and the 100 at the 12 month window are available to all.

Many times, in timesharing and other areas, the more educated have a tremendous advantage over the uninformed.  Anyone can gain this knowledge - I have no problem in snatching a juicy week from another owner - either I knew more than they did or had an atomic clock to call exactly when reservations opened...

When many of us upgrade from a studio to a 2BR some other owner must do the reverse.

This chat room is not a secret - Google Timeshare and it's #3 for #4.

A more fair method would be a lottery or like HCC, you can't get consecutive holiday usage.  Marriott doesn't believe in this - it's dog eat dog in the Marriott world.  The smarter dog eats first.


----------



## Steamboat Bill (Jan 29, 2007)

PerryM said:


> Marriott doesn't believe in this - it's dog eat dog in the Marriott world.  The smarter dog eats first.



You and BocaBum99 must be extremely obese (hee-hee) as I have been amazed at your trades.


----------



## qlaval (Jan 30, 2007)

I'm wondering...

If you call Marriott let's say at 8h45am and let it ring will they answer you at 9h00am or do they flush the lines at 9h00?


----------



## PerryM (Jan 30, 2007)

*It's 8 AM and time to chuckle!*



qlaval said:


> I'm wondering...
> 
> If you call Marriott let's say at 8h45am and let it ring will they answer you at 9h00am or do they flush the lines at 9h00?



Qlaval,

I doubt it.  I recommend to folks that starting a few days before they want to call in they call in and figure out how long it takes from the time they press Talk, on the phone, until the connection is made.  The last time I did this Marriott does use an atomic clock in their phone system and the connection time was 4 seconds.

You would then press Talk 4 seconds before 8 AM CST.

Of course you would have the web page to reservations all primed and ready for just a mouse click – if your reservation can be done via the Marriott web page.  The last time I made reservations at Marriott the phone system broke seconds before 8 AM - the web page saved my butt.  The reverse could very well happen too.

Either way you need to call in a few days ahead of time and verify that your account is all ready to make a reservation - no glitch in MF payments or assessments or anything else - nothing must stop you the morning of making that reservation.  Double check on the day you think you can make the reservation - you could be wrong.

I do chuckle when I notice it’s 8 AM CST and imagine all the grown ups playing this stupid game – I really chuckle hard each morning thinking of you guys.  I wonder if Mr Marriott chuckles too.  Maybe his butler interrupts his morning - "Sir; it's 8 AM" and that puts a kick in his step for the rest of the day.  He knows that more Marriott weeks will be sold due do to  that 8 AM free-for-all.

P.S.
It's 8 AM CST - I'm thinking of all the doctors, lawyers, dentists, shrinks, corporate leaders, moms, dads, everyone who is now on the phone - good luck guys.  Bet you'd never ever thought you'd be doing something like this after college did you?


----------



## Dave M (Jan 30, 2007)

qlaval said:


> I'm wondering...
> 
> If you call Marriott let's say at 8h45am and let it ring will they answer you at 9h00am or do they flush the lines at 9h00?


You'll get an immediate automated answer. If you select the option for reserving your week, you'll hear a message regarding the hours that Owner Services is open and, "Please call back..." during normal business hours. There is no option available to wait until 9:00 and then talk to a rep.


----------



## Steamboat Bill (Jan 30, 2007)

PerryM said:


> It's 8 AM CST - I'm thinking of all the doctors, lawyers, dentists, shrinks, corporate leaders, moms, dads, everyone who is now on the phone - good luck guys.  Bet you'd never ever thought you'd be doing something like this after college did you?



This makes me gladd I bought DVC, Westgate Park City, and High Country Club. I still like my Marriott, but I have not tried to trade for a HOT property during a PRIME week....perhaps I should simple rent!


----------



## PerryM (Jan 30, 2007)

*I cry too...*



Steamboat Bill said:


> This makes me gladd I bought DVC, Westgate Park City, and High Country Club. I still like my Marriott, but I have not tried to trade for a HOT property during a PRIME week....perhaps I should simple rent!



Don't get me wrong - I'm doing the same stupid thing 8 AM CST calling WorldMark or clicking the mouse.  At WM we play the same exact game and owning more credits or renting them does greatly increase your chances of getting that hot holiday week.

So some mornings I'm not laughing, I'm crying.


----------



## wuv pooh (Jan 30, 2007)

Steamboat Bill said:


> I still like my Marriott, but I have not tried to trade for a HOT property during a PRIME week....perhaps I should simple rent!



What we are talking about has nothing to do with trading, it is about reserving a week.  For your MMC, any week from late June until mid August should have about the same trade power so you would not be disadvantaged from a trading perspective.  I reserve any week that II gives a bonus week for and the trade value seems to be the same.  There may be a slight increase for July 4th week, but I did not notice a difference.

If you want to reserve a specific prime week then you could easily have a problem.  In fact, it is probably easier to trade into some prime weeks because owners who want maximum trade value reserve those weeks and then deposit them to II  If you are first in line with a good MMC platinum week you will get the trade.


----------



## Smooth Air (Jan 30, 2007)

I just want to say "Thanks" to everybody here. I started this post almost a week ago. When I wrote it, I was very upset. Since then I have learned so much from everybody here! Now I am armed w/ my atomic clock, my calendar, my speed dial, my patience....everything I need to make my rez when the "12 month" window opens....when the final 50% of the inventory is released! Keep your fingers crossed that I will get the week that I want so much. But, if I do not get it, I will deposit one of my weeks w/ II & hope that they have the week that I want. And, if I don't get it that way, then I will rent from a Tugger! ( That's how badly I want that week....I will pay the week's rental. ) But, now I am ready for 2009!  I cannnot believe that I just said that!   2009


----------



## PerryM (Jan 31, 2007)

*Another 13 month example*

If anyone wants more explanation and an example of 4th of July at Maui, I have a 2 page explanation, step by step, on how to do this.  I just helped a Tugger thru this.  It also recaps Christmas in Maui.

If you want this just send me an eMail (To: PerryM@Yahoo.com) and I'll return it and attach the Word document.  Please use the following subject so I can filter out your requests: "13 Month Marriott Trick".  I'll keep the document for 3 months until 5/1/07.  (I won't sell your name to a spammer)


----------



## jesuis1837 (Jan 31, 2007)

Thanks Perry! That's a very nice gesture from you!


----------



## PerryM (Jan 31, 2007)

*My good deed for the year*



jesuis1837 said:


> Thanks Perry! That's a very nice gesture from you!




Well, I may regret it.  No good deed goes unpunished..

Every Marriott owner should know this trick inside and out.  Out of all the stuff presented on TUG, this is THE number 1 trick here.  Trying to get a reservation only to be told that “All villas are reserved” is just part of the insult to an owner.  The other insult is the typical Marriott’s salesrep’s solution – "just buy another week here and use the 13 months rule".

So I have no problems taking the time to inform the Marriott owner versus buying another week which may not solve the problem.


----------



## 1sland (Jan 31, 2007)

*Ocean Pointe to offer Thurs. check-ins starting May.*

Just reading an update letter from Ocean Pointe, beginning in May, they will offer Thursday check-ins.


----------



## Dean (Jan 31, 2007)

1sland said:


> Just reading an update letter from Ocean Pointe, beginning in May, they will offer Thursday check-ins.


I'm wondering if that's for OP itself or the ? planned sequel.  I would think it'd be hard to retrofit the start days to Thursday for the previously sold weeks.


----------



## 1sland (Jan 31, 2007)

Here's the new calendar from vacation club web-site. They said it has been a popular request from owners, based on better flight availability and lower airfares. Arrivals will be staggered during the four days, thurs, fri, sat and sun. The letter also mentions that multiple week owners may make reserations 13 months prior to the first check-in day, now thurs.
http://www.vacationclub.com/common/vc/en-us/resorts/ps/pdfs/ps_calendar.pdf


----------



## andypoole (Feb 1, 2007)

*Phew!*

I think I know less now than when I started reading this thread!

We've only exchanged our 2 weeks at Playa before but now, having bought 2 floating weeks EOY at Waiohai, we want to use them in 2008. We want March, so today being 1st Feb I called Owners Services (we're in Europe) and asked to reserve 2 weeks from March 1st. I was told there was no inventory as it hadn't been released yet but would be later in the day US time. I said ok, see what's available for 29th Feb 2008 and it came up as nothing, as it did for even earlier in Feb.

I'm probably missing the point here - it's not as if we're after Christmas, Easter or any other holiday - just 2 weeks in March at a resort where we bought 2 weeks.  Which bit of this am I not understanding?


----------



## 1sland (Feb 1, 2007)

deleted wrong answer


----------



## Dave M (Feb 1, 2007)

1sland said:


> andypoole, you would have to reserve a string of 4 weeks worth of reservations with your desired hawaii weeks at the end. Rent out, or deposit the preceding weeks reservations as you are only making those reservations to be able to reserve your hawaii weeks earlier than 12 (or more) months out.


That's not accurate. Assuming both EOY weeks are for even years, he can call today - at 13 months - to reserve two consecutive weeks starting March 1, 2008 (or starting on any day on that weekend). 

There are two problems with what happened to you, Andy. The first is that the starting time for the release of that March 1, 2008 inventory is 9:00 a.m. EST today. I believe you are five hours ahead of that. If so, you can call starting at 2:00 p.m. today.

Second, those February weeks that you asked about are almost as difficult to reserve as "Christmas, Easter or any other holiday". January and February are prime weeks for Hawaii. Those in cold winter climates seek the warm sunny Hawaii breezes as a respite from those cold temperatures. Thus, more Hawaii timeshare owners request those weeks than can fit into the number of weeks available during those weeks. The same crunch applies to any weeks when school is out - summer and holiday weeks. The slower periods are non-vacation weeks in April-May and September-December.


----------



## andypoole (Feb 1, 2007)

I was being a bit precipitate.  Owners Services (Europe) did say that it was too early in the day for the March 1st release, but they did call me back having found 2 consecutive weeks from 22nd Feb, which I've accepted.

We too escape the cold winter climate and bought in Waiohai when we exchanged into KBC last January.  Hawaii is a long, long way from the UK but we thought Kauai was worth the trip. 

Thanks Island and Dave for the info.


----------



## 1sland (Feb 1, 2007)

> That's not accurate. Assuming both EOY weeks are for even years, he can call today - at 13 months - to reserve two consecutive weeks starting March 1, 2008 (or starting on any day on that weekend).


 
sorry, i guess i know not what i think i know--ha!


----------



## Tokapeba (Feb 2, 2007)

Is it possible after receiving the confermation for your prime holiday week to cancel the reservation for the week or weeks before the week you realy wanted? 

Tokapeba


----------



## Smooth Air (Feb 2, 2007)

You can cancel on 60 days notice.


----------



## Tokapeba (Feb 2, 2007)

smoothair said:


> You can cancel on 60 days notice.



If I cancel do I cancel everything or just what I really didn't want?

Tokapeba


----------



## Dave M (Feb 2, 2007)

If you cancel your Marriott reservation within 60 days of check-in, you will lose your week. Period. No substitute week. Nothing.

To cancel your reservation and make a new one, you would have to do it on or before that 60th day. 

If you have reserved multiple weeks, you can cancel those that you decide you don't need. However, I recommend that when making the initial reservation, you insist on getting separate confirmation/reservation numbers for each reservation. That enhances your ability to deposit any single week with II and ensures that if you cancel one week, the others are not automatically canceled!

If you get to within 60 days but are still at least 14 days from check-in, you should consider depositing the week with II, even though you will be limited to Flexchange exchanges. It costs nothing to deposit. It costs only if you ultimately decide to exchange the deposited week. Retaining that option for a Flexchange exchange is better than losing the week altogether.


----------



## bbyanks (Feb 3, 2007)

This may have been answered already, sorry if it was and I didn't see it. Let's say I own two weeks, one gold and one platinum. I book 13 months and one week out by booking the last week of gold and the first week of platinum (the week I really want) and get two separate reservations. If I then want to switch my gold week for another more popular week, would there be any problems, other than I'm already well past the 12 month out window for that week?


----------



## Dave M (Feb 3, 2007)

No problem, at least as Marriott currently administers the program. People have reported here of exchanging, renting or canceling one of the weeks reserved without losing the other one. What you would be doing is canceling one and making another reservation. I think you would be wise to avoid doing that until you were within the 12-month window.


----------



## Dean (Feb 3, 2007)

bbyanks said:


> This may have been answered already, sorry if it was and I didn't see it. Let's say I own two weeks, one gold and one platinum. I book 13 months and one week out by booking the last week of gold and the first week of platinum (the week I really want) and get two separate reservations. If I then want to switch my gold week for another more popular week, would there be any problems, other than I'm already well past the 12 month out window for that week?


I agree with Dave however I do have concerns if you make the change before you get to the 12 month window itself.  And I'm convinced it people start canceling like this very often you'll see a change in the system that is negative for those that use this rule.


----------



## bbyanks (Feb 3, 2007)

Dave M said:


> No problem, at least as Marriott currently administers the program. People have reported here of exchanging, renting or canceling one of the weeks reserved without losing the other one. What you would be doing is canceling one and making another reservation. I think you would be wise to avoid doing that until you were within the 12-month window.





Dean said:


> I agree with Dave however I do have concerns if you make the change before you get to the 12 month window itself.  And I'm convinced it people start canceling like this very often you'll see a change in the system that is negative for those that use this rule.




What if I had split my 2BR lockout earlier in the season and booked the 1BR portion. Could I use the remaining lockout portion to take advantage of the 13 month rule still?


----------



## Dean (Feb 3, 2007)

bbyanks said:


> What if I had split my 2BR lockout earlier in the season and booked the 1BR portion. Could I use the remaining lockout portion to take advantage of the 13 month rule still?


My understanding is yes assuming you are not trying to split the lockoff and reserve the two components of the same unit only at 13 months out.


----------



## JimH (Feb 15, 2007)

PerryM said:


> Qlavalf course yo,
> 
> I doubt it.  I recommend to folks that starting a few days before they want to call in they call in and figure out how long it takes from the time they press Talk, on the phone, until the connection is made.  The last time I did this Marriott does use an atomic clock in their phone system and the connection time was 4 seconds.
> 
> ...


----------



## PerryM (Feb 15, 2007)

*Ohhhh yeaaaaa!*



JimH said:


> PerryM said:
> 
> 
> > Qlavalf course yo,
> ...


----------



## MOXJO7282 (Feb 15, 2007)

I also just booked a covet Sat to Sat Pres week Maui. And I actually did it on line, and didn't attempt to do so until 9:15. Was surprised it was still there, as last year I missed out on Sat check-in, when I tried a few hours late. 

So it not all doom and gloom about getting holiday weeks in the Marriott system. In fact for 2008, I got all the exact weeks I wanted.

Regards.
Joe


----------



## PerryM (Feb 15, 2007)

*Shhhhhhhhhh*



MOXJO7282 said:


> I also just booked a covet Sat to Sat Pres week Maui. And I actually did it on line, and didn't attempt to do so until 9:15. Was surprised it was still there, as last year I missed out on Sat check-in, when I tried a few hours late.
> 
> So it not all doom and gloom about getting holiday weeks in the Marriott system. In fact for 2008, I got all the exact weeks I wanted.
> 
> ...



Ahhhhh, look at the time and you will discover another, yet undocumented, II secret. Shhhhhhh


----------



## BobGrant (Feb 15, 2007)

JimH said:


> PerryM said:
> 
> 
> > Qlavalf course yo,
> ...


----------



## Dave M (Feb 15, 2007)

For any old mundane week in Maui? No.

But for what's probably the most popular week (holiday week and a school vacation week for many schools) in the popular winter season when far more owners will try to reserve a week than there are weeks available, yes!

Since Maui has what essentially amounts to a single year-long Platinum season, there are a number of weeks during the year that have that opening minute scramble for reservations.

That's why there is so much discussion on this forum about buying inexpensive second Marriott weeks to qualify to call a full month earlier (13 months in advance) in an effort to reserve a top week.

Contrast that to your resort, which has a relatively short summer Platinum season and a much easier task in reserving most weeks.


----------



## isisdave (Feb 15, 2007)

*Recent experience booking NCV, 13 months before Easter 2008*

I have, for the past several years, reserved the two weeks surrounding Easter at Newport Coast Villas.  Never a problem, one year I forgot and called about three days after the 13-month window opened. NCV has about 550 villas online now, and even if it is Easter, March on the California coast is not prime spring break weather.

This week, Wednesday, I got distracted and didn't call until about 4pm EST. "Nothing available" for any checkin day on the March 14 or March 21 weekend. I put a big note on my calendar for next month.

Today I called on another matter, and happened to ask the rep to check again.  At first he said neither week was available, then put me on hold, returned to say only the first week was available, but then put me on hold again and managed to book both weeks.

I think the moral of that story is "if you are not sure you have an experienced rep, ask them to check again" -- apparently there is more than one way to do this, and one works better than others.


----------



## Smooth Air (Feb 16, 2007)

May I please have that rez agent's name? 

The other possibility is that you lucked out!  I haev spoken w/ as many agents as there are days since January 24 when I ifirst started this post!... I still do not have the week that I need.


----------



## Dave M (Feb 16, 2007)

smoothair said:


> May I please have that rez agent's name?


Per Marriott's request that we try to follow, please do not post names of individual Marriott employees here. Use Private Messages or e-mail to communicate.


----------



## Smooth Air (Feb 16, 2007)

Dave: I was only joking about the rez agent's name but it was good of you to remind us anyway. ( Hard to tell when somebody is joking on a message board...)


----------



## Smooth Air (Feb 23, 2007)

Just an update for anybody following this thread. About a month ago I started this thread. At that time, I was pretty upset when I cld not get my 2 consecutive weeks "13 months in advance". Well, I am pleased to report that b/c of all the tips & info I received from each of you I managed to get the 2 weeks! I marked the "12 Month Release Date" on my calendar, I set my atomic clock, I set my phones on redial, I clocked in @ "4 seconds" ....& by 9:02 AM I had email confirmation of my 2 weeks!!!   So, thanks to each & every one of you for restoring my faith in "The System". I have learned so much. And......I am not going to sell my 2 weeks after all...well, at least not today! Amazing the difference a month can make in one's outlook!


----------



## m61376 (Feb 23, 2007)

:whoopie:


----------



## hipslo (Feb 23, 2007)

PerryM said:


> Ahhhhh, look at the time and you will discover another, yet undocumented, II secret. Shhhhhhh



I have thought about it and thought about but still can't figure this one out.  Perry, you are very cryptic!


----------



## PerryM (Feb 23, 2007)

*15 minutes*



hipslo said:


> I have thought about it and thought about but still can't figure this one out.  Perry, you are very cryptic!



Look at the time and try to figure it out.  I don't mind helping folks discover the answer, but this answer affects me.   If you can't figure it out then send me an eMail at PerryM@Yahoo.com with the subject line "15 minutes past the hour" and I'll put together something this weekend.


----------

