# Sting Ray City and Steve Irwin



## Carolinian (Sep 5, 2006)

The news that Steve Irwin, the Australian crockodile wrestler was killed by a stingray barb through the heart makes me wonder about the safety of Stingray City on Grand Cayman.  Are these the same type of stingray?  Can one of them kill someone?  I didn't think it dangerous when I went out on the boat to swim with the stingrays, but maybe it is!


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## gmarine (Sep 5, 2006)

Your more likely to be attacked by a shark while swimming off the boat at stingray city than to be injured by a stingray. 

Just as you could be struck by lightning in a freak accident so can you be killed in the water by any number of creatures if extremely unlucky as Steve Irwin was.


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## m61376 (Sep 5, 2006)

I did meet someone who had a pretty significant foot injury from swimming with the stingrays on a tour from a cruise, requiring multiple foot surgeries and leaving her with residual neuropathy...was enough to convince me to watch rather than do.


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## daventrina (Sep 5, 2006)

Carolinian said:
			
		

> Can one of them kill someone?


YES, but you are much much more likely to drown. Like any wild animal they should be treated with due respect and care.


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## TomCayman (Sep 5, 2006)

Short answer.... no, not the same kind of Stingray.. long answer :



CITA Water Sports Sector Response to the death of Steve Irvin:

------------------------------------------------------------------------

The death of Steve Irwin is a tragic loss of a passionate environmentalist.
His 'don't try this at home' approach was somewhat controversial, but was
effective in capturing the hearts and minds of millions and served a popular
educational purpose.

It must be known that not all stingrays are the same and there are about 200
species of stingrays in the scientific order 'Myliobatiformes'.  Australia
is home to some of the deadliest creatures on the planet, many of their less
harmful cousins of similar common names live in the Caribbean and other
parts of the world, Such as our 'Southern Stingrays'. In any event, this is
very much a freak accident that is not likely to be repeated.


....it continues, but that is the core of it


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## Ronder (Sep 6, 2006)

http://www.caymannetnews.com/cgi-script/csArticles/articles/000056/005635.htm


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## Poobah (Sep 6, 2006)

*Sting Rays*

The death of Irwin was a freak accident; the barb pierced his heart. I still can't imagine what he was doing: Trying to "ride" the ray. He was headed down and the ray was headed up? I understand they were in shallow water.

There is one piece of advice however, is that when you are walking in shallow water, shuffle, don't step. That way, if there is a ray in the sand, he will know you are there and will move on.

Cheers,

Paul


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## Cat (Sep 7, 2006)

We dove Stingray City at the end of the day. As a result, I would never recommend diving it to anyone.

The rays were extremely aggressive. We had been warned to ditch our snorkels before entering the water. Seems the stingrays have learned that if they come from behind, over your shoulder, they can use the snorkels to knock your mask off and you will drop the food you have.

In our case, I opted not to feed them the frozen squid. I, however, was the first one to take a hit. It was a female (they're bigger than the males) that came from behind, over my shoulder, and sucked my upper arm, causing a dazzling spray of pain and a deep bruise that took weeks to resolve.

Our son was next. He and DH had squid. When DH's arm was extended with his hand flat, food in his palm, one came up and sucked him on his underarm. Predictably, he dropped the rest of his squid.

DH got it the worse. He had a huge, circular bruise on his back that included an impression of the bite plates! It took 2 months to resolve, and was quite painful. An English lady on our boat had followed instructions and placed the squid flat on her palm. They had sucked the skin clean off most of her palm - talk about painful!

When we surfaced, we were the only boat left. I guess they get pretty nasty when the competition is keen.

Returning to dock, there was a divemaster with a huge bandage on the side of his head. The critters had sucked his ear half off. 

Snorkeling the site is probably OK, but I would never advise anyone to dive it. When you snorkel, they can't come up over the top of you, so you can see them coming.

That's what happens when man feeds marine life. I always hate when I see people bringing bread or other food from meals to feed the fish. Sure, you can see more fish that way, but it makes them unnaturally aggressive and turns them into beggars, which in turn makes them easier prey for bigger marine animals. Feeding breaks the chain that nature has so perfectly imposed.

In the case of Stingray City, none of the stingrays is apt to do harm via the barb, unless extremely provoked or stepped on. Those rays are quite accustomed to humans. In the wild, however, one is always smart to give them a wide berth. In this case, the water in which Irwin was swimming was reportedly only 4' deep, and the ray was swimming under him. That's WAY too close, especially when his camera man was in front of them, obviously encouraging the ray to feel boxed in. 

It might have worked out fine on any other occasion in any other case, but in this time, Irwin's luck ran out. I think he had so many close brushes with fearsome creatures like cobras, mambas, tigers and the like that this seemed trivial in comparison, and it's likely that as a result, he was complacent. After all, this was just a stingray...

As a diver with 17 years experience, I would have never done what Irwin did. I would have intuitively known that getting that close was a potential recipe for disaster. I always make it a practice to give all sea creatures a very, very wide berth. Irwin routinely disregarded this cardinal rule of scuba diving in the ocean.

But then, again, I'm a chicken, and didn't earn my keep by being a daredevil risktaker for the cameras that Irwin obviously was.


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## Blue Skies (Sep 7, 2006)

We went to Stingray City in March 2003 on a small boat with approximately 10 people in our group.  There were several other boats anchored at Stingray City when we were there, and it was around noon.  

We just snorkeled and stood in chest-high water to feed the stingrays, did not dive.  Our group had absolutely no problems, and we even had our pictures taken holding the stingrays up on the surface of the water.  (One member of our group was a photographer taking photos for advertising brochures for the tour operator.)  

The rays would swim by and brush against our legs, which was kind of a creepy feeling, but they did not harm us.  Curious, I put on my mask to look in the water as the rays were being fed, and there were A LOT of stingrays cruising around us.   

After hearing the horrible stories in the news lately, I would be much more apprehensive about doing what we did, but back then we were blissfully ignorant of the consequences.  Luckily, nothing at all happened to us.  

At the time, I was more afraid of the Moray Eel we saw lurking in the coral reef while snorkeling around the area.


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## limey (Sep 7, 2006)

Well it's already happened the killer rays, don't go in the water.

A total of 17 people have died since recorded history of ray attacks, let's not get carried away because more than that died from drunk drivers in the time it took me to type this.
Give them the room they deserve treat them as you would treat any other wild animal and marvel at the grace they show in the water. Rays are one of the coolest marine lifeforms there are just remember there still wild.

The barb is for a reason it used it for what it was intended just a shame someone died from it.


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## Cat (Sep 7, 2006)

I don't think anyone's getting "carried away", limey. It's natural to want to know more about the possible dangers regarding any creature that kills a human. Not all people are certified divers or vacation often in places with access to contact with sea creatures. Knowledge is power and the greatest antidote to fear.


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## glenn1000 (Sep 7, 2006)

*Different experiece diving*

I dove in Sting Ray City two years ago as one of only two people on our large boat. The other diver was my guide. There were no divers from other boats and only a few snorkelers that day. A very slow day in SRC and we had lots of rays around us. I had a very nice experience and was fortunate to not experience the agressiveness that Cat encountered.

On another note, I read that Steve Irwin pulled the barb out of his chest. If that is true, he may have contributed to his own demise by doing so. When pulled backwards the barb would tear a hole much larger than the hole made when entering the heart. If he left it in and had it removed in an operating room there might have been a better chance of surviving this awful event.


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## LAX Mom (Sep 8, 2006)

Wow Cat, what an experience! I've been to Sting Ray city twice and it was very tame. After reading your experience I'm not sure I'd get in the water with the rays again!


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## Cat (Sep 8, 2006)

First off, Lisa, if you were snorkeling, you were safe. If you chose to dive it, so long as you did it in the AM or early afternoon, you were probably safe. It appeared that it was because we had arrived so late that at about halfway through, we were the only divers down. I've heard it's a common phenomenon for those poor, ignorant souls like us who go late in the day.

Gotta tell you, when those critters give their "love bites" it REALLY hurts!!


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## Jwerking (Sep 9, 2006)

LAX Mom said:
			
		

> Wow Cat, what an experience! I've been to Sting Ray city twice and it was very tame. After reading your experience I'm not sure I'd get in the water with the rays again!



Wow, I agree with you Lisa.  When we were in the Caymans a number of years ago - I must admit it was one of the coolest adventures.  We just stood on the sandbar and they were all around us.  It was really freaky at first, but got use to it.  We ended up lifting them out of the water - wow- that scares me just thinking about what could have happened.

But I must admit the whole event in Australia has definitely made an impression upon me - as we are possibly going there this upcoming summer and certainly planned on snorkeling the Reef.   Common sense will prevail. 

Joyce


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## limey (Sep 9, 2006)

People are getting carried away with it, if it was you our me that died it wouldn't be on every news station there is so less would know about it and for sure it wouldn't be a topic here.
Wasn't getting on your case CAT just trying to show how unusal this accident was ,every time you put on you gear to dive you are at a far higher risk to die. Knowledge is great but with only 17 deaths caution and common sence would be the prime thing to use not fear.
That was my point


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## Cat (Sep 9, 2006)

Point well taken, limey. I didn't think you were speaking to me, BTW.

Are you a diver? If so, have you seen the thread on the Lounge about TUG divers?

Regarding your observation, my son's favorite line about diving and its inherent risk? When we surface and are taking off gear, (Imagine your best sea captain's voice and accent...)"Y'ar...cheated death again!"


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## Denise L (Sep 9, 2006)

We dove Stingray City years ago. It was not for us. The water is barely deep enough to stay down and we had to use a ton of weights. The rays were super aggressive and left suck marks on people. I didn't want to get near anyone with food, and I didn't take the container of food that was offered. It was crowded, with people kicking each other.

I can see how it is popular though, to see such beautiful animals close up. But I prefer to see them when they are cruising on their own, not being fed and just naturally existing.


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## limey (Sep 9, 2006)

Yes me and my wife have been diving over 20 yrs now, we will be diving next mnth at the Sea Aquarium for 14 days all will be shore dives with the computers it makes life easy.
Saw the post for a divers forum i think it would be a great asset to this board but until then will use shorediving.com maps are good as is the fead back.
Ever dive in Belize? We had a great time there good dives and tons of big stuff to see. My son is 8 in sept and was 3 when he first put a mask on he can't wait to learn snorkles like a fish and now i'm following him instead of him following me. He says he's a water person i'd say he is to, love to take a can of chesse wizz with him to feed the fish.


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## Carol C (Sep 9, 2006)

I very much enjoyed snorkeling with the stingrays in Caymans. I approach such experiences with a core belief that as long as you are peaceful and calm around wild animals and don't taunt them they'll likely be docile around humans. IMO Steve Irwin was cocky; his taunting and teasing of "dangerous" animals was not a bit entertaining to me. But he was apparently loved by his family and coworkers, so I hope time will heal their sorrow.


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## Cat (Sep 10, 2006)

Limey, that's great about your son. However, please, please don't take the can of Cheeze Whiz to feed the fish. It upsets the order of nature, to the eventual detriment of the marine life. As a diver and confirmed underwater conservationist, I submit that it's best for your son to grow up enjoying seeing nature, unspoiled by man's intercession.


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## Carol C (Sep 10, 2006)

Cat said:
			
		

> Limey, that's great about your son. However, please, please don't take the can of Cheeze Whiz to feed the fish. It upsets the order of nature, to the eventual detriment of the marine life. As a diver and confirmed underwater conservationist, I submit that it's best for your son to grow up enjoying seeing nature, unspoiled by man's intercession.



I second what Cat said! And might I add another comment...Cheese Whiz sux. I don't even recommend humans consume that substance!


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## limey (Sep 10, 2006)

the chessee wizz is for him not the fish lol after he eats it and barfs thats for the fish lol.


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## daventrina (Sep 18, 2006)

*DAN News*

http://www.diversalertnetwork.org/ne...asp?newsid=846


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## JRS (Sep 20, 2006)

Enjoyed reading the thread and Cat's comments.  I've been away from this site, Sting Ray City and G Cayman for a couple of years, look forward to the next time there ......    I agree with the comments of giving creatures in nature some of their own space and to view them in a non threatening way ....


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## Cat (Sep 21, 2006)

A warm welcome back to you, JRS!


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## suzanne (Sep 28, 2006)

We dove Stingray City a couple years ago and enjoyed the dive. The rays were everywhere and there was lots of interaction with them. I did not  feed them but several others on the dive including the dive masters did. No one on our dive was hurt or felt threatened. As Cat said, time of day can make a big difference. We were there in the early afternoon. Our biggest problem on the dive was the surge. It was pretty strong the day we went as a storm had rolled thru the day before.

 I have also snorkled with the Manta Rays in the Bahamas. There was a group of 5 Mantas that were swimming back and forth in front of the resort we were staying at. They were there every morning. We would swim back and forth with them, but never tried to feed them or approach them. They would swim back and forth with us for about 10 minutes then they would leave the area and return the next morning. They were truly amazing.

Irwin's death was an unfortunate accident which is giving a beautiful wild creature a bad rap and I don't think he would have wanted that.

Suzanne


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## buceo (Sep 28, 2006)

It seems to me once we are adults we tend to respect the needed distance between ourselves and wildlife until we pay a tour guide for an "up close" encounter whether it be stingrays or whale sharks or something else.  (both things I have done BTW). Then all of a sudden we get in too close. There was a very sad story recently of a high school graduate getting a photo taken with a lion and though on a leash in a zoo, it killed her.  

Others have made the same point, it's better to give animals their needed space, whether you're paying someone to help you get close or not.


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