# SCAM:  Wyndham's "Pathways" program



## jerrybev (Jun 11, 2014)

we went to update and they are selling "pathways" as an "exit strategy" for people to use when they are too old to use their timeshare and their children don't want the high maint. fees to pay.   They are targeting people who already have a load of timeshare .....to sell them more timeshare... because to get "pathways', one must buy a  minimum of 105,000 points.  They promise the company in 5 years ABSOLUTELY, DEFINITELY  will buy back any timeshares you don't want or your kids don't want that they inherited-- for 20 cents on the dollar.  NOT TRUE A SCAM.

the contract says:  “if WVR elects to purchase”,  WVR has no obligation to purchase owner’s eligible timeshare contract(s), WVR reserves the right to modify or terminate the  Program at any time in the future, with or without notice

In my opinion, it appears that --If the salesmans lips are moving he is lying.

jerry whitfield
Winston salem NC


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## ronparise (Jun 11, 2014)

Id stop short from calling it a scam

read in light of this

http://www.redweek.com/resources/as...newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=june

Id call it an experiment


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## lcml11 (Jun 11, 2014)

ronparise said:


> Id stop short from calling it a scam
> 
> read in light of this
> 
> ...



Thanks for the post.  Shows that the choice of a resort should not be just based on low MF fees.  The driving factor that appears in the article, or at least I think so, are:

1.  High Demand Area
2.  If not high demand area than watch out for the older resorts that are in needed of serious work.

That is why I think if someone is interested in buying a secondary market timeshare really needs to rent at the location they are thinking of buying at.  Especially if it is a low MF resort.


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## ronparise (Jun 12, 2014)

lcml11 said:


> Thanks for the post.  Shows that the choice of a resort should not be just based on low MF fees.  The driving factor that appears in the article, or at least I think so, are:
> 
> 1.  High Demand Area
> 2.  If not high demand area than watch out for the older resorts that are in needed of serious work.
> ...



The point of this article is to say "The American Resort Development Association (ARDA), the industry's lobbying arm in Washington, has launched a series of initiatives to help owners (and resorts) unload timeshares that have little or no value on the open market. If their efforts succeed, the days of the $1 timeshare resale will end, the market will shrink and prices will go up."

With regard to Wyndham I think a case can be made to do exactly the opposite of what you suggest as an investment strategy.  Instead of buying the newer resorts in the most in demand locations, buy the older, less popular locations  for a dollar. Then wait for Wyndham to finish experimenting with things like Pathways, and really start supporting a secondary market. The value of your "dollar" contracts should go up


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## siesta (Jun 12, 2014)

That article is for the birds. Wishful thinking and nothing more.  Without rofr artificially propping up TS prices, cheap contracts are here to stay. The reason is they are not "losing value," they arent worth the price they are sold in the first place.

But one will say, "siesta, they are obviously worth more than a dollar?" Theoretically, yes, but that my friend is the law of supply and demand.


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## pacodemountainside (Jun 12, 2014)

Check out this thread  and do a search on "pathways".
 It has been sliced  and diced every which way but loose!

http://tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=205633&highlight=pathways


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## lcml11 (Jun 12, 2014)

ronparise said:


> The point of this article is to say "The American Resort Development Association (ARDA), the industry's lobbying arm in Washington, has launched a series of initiatives to help owners (and resorts) unload timeshares that have little or no value on the open market. If their efforts succeed, the days of the $1 timeshare resale will end, the market will shrink and prices will go up."
> 
> With regard to Wyndham I think a case can be made to do exactly the opposite of what you suggest as an investment strategy.  Instead of buying the newer resorts in the most in demand locations, buy the older, less popular locations  for a dollar. Then wait for Wyndham to finish experimenting with things like Pathways, and really start supporting a secondary market. The value of your "dollar" contracts should go up



You could very well be right as part of an overall investment plan.  However, to do this and make money, like you, it would take a lot of learning of the Wyndham system.

I believe this can be done successfully under a buy rent hold plan combined with a target sales price to take your profits when the getting is good for any given contact.

If you go down this path, here is one that would be tempting:  Avenue Plaza, current bid $5.  Minimum bid $5.50.  E-Bay.   

Additional Information
♦ Size:  1 bedroom/ 1 bath (Sleeps 4)
♦ Usage:  Annual Floating week 1-51 (excluding 2 weeks of Mardi Gras & 2 weeks of Jazz fest)
♦ Points:  N/A
♦ Type:  Deed
♦ Exchange:  RCI (code: 1450/ Gold Crown)
♦ Maintenance Fee:  $678 billed annually
♦ First Year of Use:  2015
◊◊ FEES DUE END OF AUCTION ◊◊
♦ Closing Cost:  FREE (Savings of $300)
♦ Resort Transfer Fee:  FREE (Savings of $299)
♦ 2014 Maintenance Fee:  $0.00
♦ Winning Bid:  Due at time of sale


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## pacodemountainside (Jun 12, 2014)

RR:

Mentioning investment  and Wyndham  TS in same breath is like ******* to avoid mod  flogging with wet noodle.

What does this have to do with the price of horse manure on the moon?

Pathways only applies to Developer purchases!

Wyndham, et. al.  has no qualms  about   changing anything it can  for  stock holder gain and Main Man  stock options.

I have comparable AVP week I will be happy to give to you for your investment portfolio as  long as no cost to me.


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## ronparise (Jun 12, 2014)

lcml11 said:


> You could very well be right as part of an overall investment plan.  However, to do this and make money, like you, it would take a lot of learning of the Wyndham system.
> 
> I believe this can be done successfully under a buy rent hold plan combined with a target sales price to take your profits when the getting is good for any given contact.
> 
> ...




Don't even think about giving me advice on Avenue Plaza. 

This one is ovepriced by about $650 (I want 2014 fee paid and the use available to me)


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## vacationhopeful (Jun 12, 2014)

ronparise said:


> Don't even think about giving me advice on Avenue Plaza.
> 
> This one is ovepriced by about $650 (I want 2014 fee paid and the use available to me)



Ron, I fully agree with you on the AP value -- no event weeks and no NYE. I guess that leaves a few days for the Southern Classic game. Been there, done that.


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## uscav8r (Jun 12, 2014)

ronparise said:


> ...
> With regard to Wyndham I think a case can be made to do exactly the opposite of what you suggest as an investment strategy.  Instead of buying the newer resorts in the most in demand locations, buy the older, less popular locations  for a dollar. Then wait for Wyndham to finish experimenting with things like Pathways, and really start supporting a secondary market. The value of your "dollar" contracts should go up



Unfortunately, you are paying thousands of dollars in carrying costs (aka maintenance fees) in the years (decades?) it will take to sell for more than you bought it for...


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## lcml11 (Jun 12, 2014)

ronparise said:


> Don't even think about giving me advice on Avenue Plaza.
> 
> This one is ovepriced by about $650 (I want 2014 fee paid and the use available to me)



For Avenue Plaza, you appear to be a expert on this resort.  If you say that the floating week is overpriced at $5 to $5:50 for the week by about $650 dollars basically no other significant fees for purchase I will take your word for it.  Glad I do not own there.


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## pacodemountainside (Jun 12, 2014)

vacationhopeful said:


> Ron, I fully agree with you on the AP value -- no event weeks and no NYE. I guess that leaves a few days for the Southern Classic game. Been there, done that.



You are over simplifying!

MF are less than $5/ 1,000 assuming red week and no POA fee and related garbage!

 July  4th, Halloween and week 51 will get 29 TPUs with  RCI which will get some great exchanges.

Resort aggressively  markets  delinquencies making  several extra weeks   available to owners  only  paying MF!


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## ronparise (Jun 12, 2014)

lcml11 said:


> For Avenue Plaza, you appear to be a expert on this resort.  If you say that the floating week is overpriced at $5 to $5:50 for the week by about $650 dollars basically no other significant fees for purchase I will take your word for it.  Glad I do not own there.



This is my best "investment property"  

I own 10 of these, my cost is less than nothing (I got the first years use for free) 

I get 40 weekend reservations out of them adding roughly $1000 a month after mf to my income 

No when the time comes to sell you may be right, but as Paco said they are well managed and have a pretty good collections strategy...I may just give them back, but chances are if my heirs dont want them, they will take them back from my estate


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## ronparise (Jun 12, 2014)

uscav8r said:


> Unfortunately, you are paying thousands of dollars in carrying costs (aka maintenance fees) in the years (decades?) it will take to sell for more than you bought it for...



You can buy real estate to hold for the long term, either for the cash flow, the appreciation potential or if you are lucky; both

I bought my timeshares for the cash flow, (Im making money in my holding period)  If I get lucky and what the article predicts actually happens, Ill be able to sell one day for a profit


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## uscav8r (Jun 12, 2014)

ronparise said:


> You can buy real estate to hold for the long term, either for the cash flow, the appreciation potential or if you are lucky; both
> 
> I bought my timeshares for the cash flow, (Im making money in my holding period)  If I get lucky and what the article predicts actually happens, Ill be able to sell one day for a profit


Yes, you have a way to more than offset the carrying cost while you wait things out. The average prospective TS owner, however, shouldn't be buying speculatively to turn a profit simply based price appreciation. I should have been more general by saying "one" (as in a generic buyer) vice "you" (Ron) in my comment.


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## ronparise (Jun 13, 2014)

uscav8r said:


> Yes, you have a way to more than offset the carrying cost while you wait things out. The average prospective TS owner, however, shouldn't be buying speculatively to turn a profit simply based price appreciation. I should have been more general by saying "one" (as in a generic buyer) vice "you" (Ron) in my comment.



There is no way "one"  that buys  timeshares for his own vacations,could own enough to profit in any significant way, from his purchaces

There's a broker that posts on WMowners.com that is predicting Worldmark will be selling for 80 cents a credit in a few years. I dont see it, but if he is right, that will be a double in a few years.  But to your point, You need a pretty big position with pretty serious annual expenses, to make any real money


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## vacationhopeful (Jun 13, 2014)

pacodemountainside said:


> You are over simplifying!
> 
> MF are less than $5/ 1,000 assuming red week and no POA fee and related garbage!
> 
> ...



Yes, I was keeping the story short. But if the causal reader is trying to figure out "renting" to make a profit and knows little about NOLA (and all its festivals), they will be unhappy. And still, many TUGGERS (okay, Ron) will not be a aggressive in advertising & pricing to cover their costs.

Paco, with you mentioning TPUs values is NOT relavent for a renting discussion thread. RCI exchanges are not rentable by RCI's guidelines. For an owner who is trying to leverage their personal vacations by exchanging for personal use into other RCI resorts - yes, but TPU values change per week reserved and a resort management company may change its depositing rules from a specific reservation held by on owner to generic reservations with a blended value which the HOA makes during the year.


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