# Some things I don't understand about timeshares



## VegasBella (Mar 18, 2013)

This forum has been so helpful. We haven't bought a timeshare yet but when we do I'm sure we will feel very confident that we've done the proper research and found a good value. There are some things I still don't understand about timeshares though.

The first thing is *floating weeks*. For example, I've heard that some places sell more floating weeks than they could possibly accomodate. Also, the way some floating systems work is very complicated and it seems unlikely that an owner would get the week they want very often. 

The next thing is the *maintenance fees*. It doesn't really make sense to me why the fees are the same for all the weeks. It seems like the system should be set up so that the weeks that are in higher demand have higher fees than the weeks in low demand. Or that the fees should be related to the actual services provided during the week someone owns/uses. Why in the world are they evenly distributed among the owners?


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## chriskre (Mar 18, 2013)

VegasBella said:


> The first thing is *floating weeks*. For example, I've heard that some places sell more floating weeks than they could possibly accomodate. Also, the way some floating systems work is very complicated and it seems unlikely that an owner would get the week they want very often.
> 
> 
> 
> The next thing is the *maintenance fees*. It doesn't really make sense to me why the fees are the same for all the weeks. It seems like the system should be set up so that the weeks that are in higher demand have higher fees than the weeks in low demand. Or that the fees should be related to the actual services provided during the week someone owns/uses. Why in the world are they evenly distributed among the owners?




They are not supposed to oversell.  I don't know how often this is done but it's not supposed to be done.  I think the problem is more that people wait too long to book their season and then find that many weeks that they could have booked have passed by.  You can't go back in time so they missed their opportunity because others who weren't asleep at the wheel go to the finish line first.   

As for the MF's being the same, it depends on which system you are talking about and if it's a pure points system or a hybrid points/weeks or weeks that were converted into points.  It's complicated.

For example with DVC (Disney), it's a pure points system so everyone pays their MF's based on how many points they own not the size of the unit because they don't own a unit.   

Whereas in Hilton and others, your MF's are based on the underlying week that you own and is based on the size of your unit owned.


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## artringwald (Mar 18, 2013)

When you buy a deeded timeshare that is floating, the deed will refer to a specific unit and week. This isn't the week that you will use, but it prevents the developer from over selling. All the floating weeks are put into a pool, so anyone with a floating week can make reservations from that pool, first come first serve. If you want to reserve a desirable week, you have do book it as early as possible.

Many of the costs for the property do not depend on whether the unit is occupied. The property taxes, maintenance, and management fees do not depend on the season. For floating weeks, the owner's might use the week any time of year. Having said that, it's possible that some resorts do offer floating deeds that are restricted to high or low seasons, and for those it might make sense to have some difference in the MF's.


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## vacationhopeful (Mar 18, 2013)

Fixed weeks were the original timeshare format. All units of the same size/view were billed the same MFs - not based on when the utilities used or whether the snow had to be removed or the grass cut. Your PURCHASE PRICE reflected the "better" season and/or unit or you chose the "CHEAP/OFF" season intial price because that was more important to you.

Then along came "FLOATING" weeks within a season - as for who knew what date school break might come? But MFs were still based on only unit size or views.

Then points systems - with desireable weeks or larger units costing MORE points - but again the cost of your MFs were equal to a per point factor.

Now you come to converted FIXED WEEKS into points. A F/W MFs is the same regardless of the season. But a week converted to points will have different points values based on desirability or holidays. With a converted F/W, you might get FEWER points but you MFs will be charged as if it was a medium season week. A PRIME week gets a "discount" on it MFs costs.

An that is WHY you always ASK on a converted FIXED week, what is the underllying unit and week number. My one converted F/W costs me $4.02/1k of Wyndham points verses the normal $5.33/1K of a (sample) UDI resort.


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## ronparise (Mar 18, 2013)

As has already been said; The resorts are not oversold. If there are 10 units at the resort only 520 weeks can be sold.

Often times however you will not be able to reserve the week you want. In my 10 unit resort example if 11 people want one particular week. only 10 will get it. the last guy wont..  Worse yet if any units sit empty at the beginning of the year, at the end of the year there will not be enough available units to satisfy everyone, so its possible some people will pay their maintenance fees and get nothing that year

However, in the case of floating weeks I own, I have always been able to get what I want as long as I pay my fees early and call for a reservation as soon as   the resort allows

Conventional advice is...If you want a guarantee..buy a fixed week.  If you want flexibility with regard to dates of travel, buy a float week, and if you want flexibility of location and dates, buy into a points system.

Now regarding maintenance fees....It seems perfectly logical to expect the fees we pay to use a resort would vary based on the time of year...High demand weeks ought to cost more than low demand weeks. However thats not the way its done..Remember we are owners of a resort and these are maintenance fees. The furniture costs exactly the same whether I use it on the fourth of July or in the middle of winter. The guy that mows the grass and shovels the snow gets the same pay in the summer and winter. so the fees are figured on an annual basis and divided by 52....How is that fair you might ask....The adjustment was made when the property was first sold. You can bet that the guy that bought a prime winter ski week paid a lot more for the week than the guy that bought a mud week in the spring


In addition to the flexibility of a points system they also adjust for season...A prime week will cost more points (and therefore less maintenance fees) than a low season week.


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## chriskre (Mar 18, 2013)

ronparise said:


> As has already been said; The resorts are not oversold. If there are 10 units at the resort only 520 weeks can be sold.
> 
> .



Unfortunately some are.  
I know of one where this was done.  :ignore:

So I'm not so sure it was not done at others as well.   
In a perfect world, sales fraud doesn't exist, but we know how this world of TS's work and it could possibly be more widespread than we realize.


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## DeniseM (Mar 18, 2013)

VegasBella said:


> The first thing is *floating weeks*. For example, I've heard that some places sell more floating weeks than they could possibly accomodate. Also, the way some floating systems work is very complicated and it seems unlikely that an owner would get the week they want very often.



This is not legal, so it's definitely not the norm.  At most resorts you can make your home resort reservation 12 - 18 mos. out from check-in.  If you own a floating week, and you need a specific date, then a savvy owner calls right on the first day.   I have never had a problem reserving a floating week.  Owners that do, generally don't understand the reservation system, and call too late.



> Or that the fees should be related to the actual services provided during the week someone owns/uses. Why in the world are they evenly distributed among the owners?



I am not sure what you mean by "actual services."  Maintenance fees pay to repair, replace, maintain, and clean the resort.  Trying to itemize those fees per unit and owner would be a nightmare.  In most cases, you never get the same unit twice, so it's not logical to do it that way either, because there is no correlation between the wear and tear on the unit, and the number on your deed.  You may never stay in your deeded unit.  

So let's say unit 252 is on my deed, and one week a family has a bicycle on the carpet, and another week a child vomits red Kool Aide on the carpet, and another week someone snags a chair on the carpet and tears it, and another week someone drops a hot iron on the carpet.  Then lets pretend that half of those  people are exchangers.  So the carpet in 252 needs to be replaced early.  Should the owners with #252 on their deed be solely responsible for the cost?  Also, as you can see - the need to replace the carpet has nothing to do with the season one owns.  That's why maintenance fees are averaged over the entire ownership.


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## bogey21 (Mar 18, 2013)

I have been in and out of TimeShares for almost 25 years.  I owned at a large chain (Marriott); HOA controlled Resorts; Fixed Weeks, Floating Weeks and Points.  I have exchanged, rented, taken advantage programs like Last Call, and used my own Weeks.  Everything I did worked at one time or another.  As I got older; as my family changed; as Resorts changed their rules; and as the TS industry changed; so did my participation in it change.   *FWIW my advice is simple.* Keep your investment as small as possible, visit before you buy, don't over extend, sell fast if something is not working, and look for value in Maintenance Fees. 

George


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## VegasBella (Mar 18, 2013)

chriskre said:


> They are not supposed to oversell.  I don't know how often this is done but it's not supposed to be done.


Yes, I understand they're not supposed to. But some do. And they do it often enough that it's mentioned in the buyer's checklist here:
http://www.tug2.net/advice/purchase_checklist.htm



artringwald said:


> If you want to reserve a desirable week, you have do book it as early as possible.


So this part is a bit confusing to me because if you're having to make reservations for vacations 12-18 months out then why even bother with a "flexible" timeshare ownership like floating weeks or points? It seems like if you're already planning like that then most of the time cash would work better than points/floating weeks. Otherwise, it seems like a fixed week makes more sense. But I guess that's just me? 



vacationhopeful said:


> Fixed weeks were the original timeshare format. All units of the same size/view were billed the same MFs - not based on when the utilities used or whether the snow had to be removed or the grass cut. Your PURCHASE PRICE reflected the "better" season and/or unit or you chose the "CHEAP/OFF" season intial price because that was more important to you.


This was very helpful. Thank you.

I had noticed that resale purchase prices for a resort I'm looking at with fixed weeks go from FREE to nearly $20k and it's all because of the season. But any time a timeshare is free it makes me worry about the place - there's some sort of problem in how the system functions if people want to give away their timeshares for free. And wouldn't that eventually have some negative impact on the other, more valued weeks?



DeniseM said:


> I am not sure what you mean by "actual services."  Maintenance fees pay to repair, replace, maintain, and clean the resort.


 I understand a lot of costs are the same year-round. But some aren't. Like if a resort doesn't heat the pool in the Winter then the costs of heating the pool are nonexistant in the Winter. Likewise, the cost of air conditioning only occurs in the Summer. In a place like Vegas, it literally costs twice as much to make a building comfortable in the Summer as it does in the Winter. It seems like if MFs don't reflect the fact that using a property some time of the year is simply more expensive than using it other times of the year then there's some problem with the system. 



bogey21 said:


> *FWIW my advice is simple.* Keep your investment as small as possible, visit before you buy, don't over extend, sell fast if something is not working, and look for value in Maintenance Fees.


Sounds good.


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## timeos2 (Mar 18, 2013)

VegasBella said:


> The first thing is *floating weeks*. For example, I've heard that some places sell more floating weeks than they could possibly accomodate. Also, the way some floating systems work is very complicated and it seems unlikely that an owner would get the week they want very often.



Like most things in timeshare (as well as most of life) the answer depends on the circumstances.  If you are buying a float week in a highly seasonal area (and many are) then the best, most demanded weeks will naturally be snatched up first. If you own in that type of area it may be wise to buy a fixed week in the best season so you don't have to worry about grabbing a scarce resource - a prime time week each use year. It usually (but not always) isn't that the resort "oversold" - it''s just that 80% of the owners are all chasing the 20% prime weeks. Many are not going to get what they want and may feel the resort "oversold".   

On the other hand if you own in the few areas that have nearly true year round demand (Orlando being a great example as even in the times when the weather may not be the most desirable the demand created by the three big theme park complex's make up for it) then being tied to a fixed week is not a desirable thing - better to be free to choose what week each year you prefer since they all are nearly identical in use value).   



VegasBella said:


> The next thing is the *maintenance fees*. It doesn't really make sense to me why the fees are the same for all the weeks. It seems like the system should be set up so that the weeks that are in higher demand have higher fees than the weeks in low demand. Or that the fees should be related to the actual services provided during the week someone owns/uses. Why in the world are they evenly distributed among the owners?



This one is a little tougher. Again in an area like FL having all weeks pay the same mostly makes sense for the same reason a float ownership does. But again in the seasonal areas the value of the weeks definitely changes depending on the season it is in. Yet, often due to outdated State laws, it is required that all owners pay the same regardless of season.  The resorts can't change that for existing resorts but may be able to if a new resort is built. 

Some adjustments were made by the original purchase price as lower demand times sold for less. But in the long run purchase price of any timeshare means nothing - it is the fees that are the true cost. Paying the same for an off season time isn't a good value. This is where a trust / points system or something like that can be used to more properly distribute costs to make it fair. The best times pay the highest fees - the worst pay less. Not every resort has taken the steps they can to address this. Every one should as it is a basic issue with non-prime ownerships.


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## DeniseM (Mar 18, 2013)

VegasBella said:


> I understand a lot of costs are the same year-round. But some aren't. Like if a resort doesn't heat the pool in the Winter then the costs of heating the pool are nonexistant in the Winter. Likewise, the cost of air conditioning only occurs in the Summer. In a place like Vegas, it literally costs twice as much to make a building comfortable in the Summer as it does in the Winter. It seems like if MFs don't reflect the fact that using a property some time of the year is simply more expensive than using it other times of the year then there's some problem with the system.



This is the problem with your theory:  Las Vegas in the summer is off-season/low-season.  So if you own a deeded summer week, and apply your theory to it, then the off-season owners would have to pay more - not the high season owners.  It just isn't workable.


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## timeos2 (Mar 18, 2013)

VegasBella said:


> Yes, I understand they're not supposed to. But some do. And they do it often enough that it's mentioned in the buyer's checklist here:
> http://www.tug2.net/advice/purchase_checklist.htm



Actually it is very rare, especially in the US. Mexico, etc .... who knows. 




VegasBella said:


> So this part is a bit confusing to me because if you're having to make reservations for vacations 12-18 months out then why even bother with a "flexible" timeshare ownership like floating weeks or points? It seems like if you're already planning like that then most of the time cash would work better than points/floating weeks. Otherwise, it seems like a fixed week makes more sense. But I guess that's just me?



The flexibility is not being stuck with fixed week 9 when in the next use year you want week 11 because that's when the school break falls. The year after that you want week 30 because you'd like to see what summer at Universal is like vs the cooler times. You usually need to plan about 8-10 months out for most resorts with 100% float time. Perhaps 10-12 if your dead set on a specific Holiday period. Still not unreasonable for the ability to get different weeks each year. However, if you ABSOLUTELY would always want week 9 then a fixed week can be a great way to go.





VegasBella said:


> I had noticed that resale purchase prices for a resort I'm looking at with fixed weeks go from FREE to nearly $20k and it's all because of the season. But any time a timeshare is free it makes me worry about the place - there's some sort of problem in how the system functions if people want to give away their timeshares for free. And wouldn't that eventually have some negative impact on the other, more valued weeks?



Free weeks at any resort can be an issue because it means people may feel they have no real value and thus are the first to consider an end to paying their fees. No matter what season / value YOU own you get hurt by those non-payments (your fees may go up to pay for the delinquents). Every Association should be taking steps to minimize delinquents and to try to address extremely lw pricing on any resale ownerships. 




VegasBella said:


> I understand a lot of costs are the same year-round. But some aren't. Like if a resort doesn't heat the pool in the Winter then the costs of heating the pool are nonexistant in the Winter. Likewise, the cost of air conditioning only occurs in the Summer. In a place like Vegas, it literally costs twice as much to make a building comfortable in the Summer as it does in the Winter. It seems like if MFs don't reflect the fact that using a property some time of the year is simply more expensive than using it other times of the year then there's some problem with the system.



You are talking seasonality and as mentioned before points or some other system that spreads costs based on the use/trade/rental value in general takes care of these issues. But if the resort is a year round, float time then every week really is worth basically the same and will pay the same fees each year regardless of what season / week they may have on their deed.


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## csxjohn (Mar 18, 2013)

VegasBella said:


> So this part is a bit confusing to me because if you're having to make reservations for vacations 12-18 months out then why even bother with a "flexible" timeshare ownership like floating weeks or points? It seems like if you're already planning like that then most of the time cash would work better than points/floating weeks. Otherwise, it seems like a fixed week makes more sense. But I guess that's just me?
> 
> 
> . But any time a timeshare is free it makes me worry about the place - there's some sort of problem in how the system functions if people want to give away their timeshares for free. And wouldn't that eventually have some negative impact on the other, more valued weeks?
> ...



First, even if you know 18 mos. out what you want to do it may be a different time evey year.  With a fixed week you go that week every year unless you join an exchange company.  Floating weeks give you flexibility within your float period.

Second, don't be afraid just because a TS is given away for free.  If it's what you want when you want it then look for a price you are willing to pay.  I bought my Tropic Shores unit for $100 which included all transfer fees and 2013 use, so it was less than free.  It's a well run resort with evey unit ocean front and reasonable MFs.  It's the resort I want to go to every summer and I have June 1st this year.  It floats every week except 2 weeks for the Daytona 500.  Those two weeks are sold as fixed weeks.

Third, this depends on how much you want to try to micro manage the resort.  I owned a spring week when I got all the free firewood I wanted but the pool was closed.  Somewhere a line has to be drawn that says we will all pay for items X, Y, and Z for the good of all owners.

This was brought out recently when a resort near Disney was going to start charging every unit so many dollars to fund a shuttle whether you used it or not.  It was changed to a per use charge before it was implimented.  

It's pretty much up to the Home Owners Assoc. to decide what will be common expenses and what will be use fees for those vacationing.


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## presley (Mar 18, 2013)

VegasBella said:


> So this part is a bit confusing to me because if you're having to make reservations for vacations 12-18 months out then why even bother with a "flexible" timeshare ownership like floating weeks or points? It seems like if you're already planning like that then most of the time cash would work better than points/floating weeks. Otherwise, it seems like a fixed week makes more sense. But I guess that's just me?



Floats only help if you want to go at different times on different years.  I have GPP float weeks.  I could do Easter break this year, Thanksgiving next, Christmas the next and book an early summer week the next year.  I can book up to 14 months before check in date.  I haven't had any problems getting that particular resort, even booking only a few months out.  Other resorts are more difficult to book.

If I wanted to stay there every summer, then a fixed week would be better.  I wouldn't have to remember to make a reservation, it would just be there for me.  

If you are sure you want to travel during a particular week, a fixed week is much easier to deal with.  Of course, if you exchange your week, you can book a different week through the exchange company.


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## pacodemountainside (Mar 18, 2013)

VegasBella said:


> This forum has been so helpful. We haven't bought a timeshare yet but when we do I'm sure we will feel very confident that we've done the proper research and found a good value. There are some things I still don't understand about timeshares though.
> 
> The first thing is *floating weeks*. For example, I've heard that some places sell more floating weeks than they could possibly accommodate. Also, the way some floating systems work is very complicated and it seems unlikely that an owner would get the week they want very often.
> 
> The next thing is the *maintenance fees*. It doesn't really make sense to me why the fees are the same for all the weeks. It seems like the system should be set up so that the weeks that are in higher demand have higher fees than the weeks in low demand. Or that the fees should be related to the actual services provided during the week someone owns/uses. Why in the world are they evenly distributed among the owners?



OP:

Could you quote sources  for  over selling. If a deeded week that is properly recorded AND major CPA audits  books  very unlikely. Obviously where there is management collusion a la World Com , Bernie Madcolf, etc.  fraud does happen and people end up in jail. Now in Mexico where RTU and no deed  and  things are different  anything is  quite possible.

Maybe I am missing  point on item B. If one  buys   guaranteed  floating  2 BR week 1-13 at ski resort they are going to pay  a lot, say  $36K for 189 K points.  On these points MF run  around $1,000.  A  2R during  mud  season is only 105K   points  or $500+ MF.  While rate is same  base is lower and total cost much lower.

As posts here on BC  bus fee  and  what starter packages  should include  indicate there is a real can of worms when it comes what "amenities" to charge for and  who to charge. Most resorts do have  free basics like pool, hot tub,  tennis court, shuffle board, computer room,  etc.  and it varies with mandatory amenities fee,  maid service,  entertainment, parking,  lazy rivers, , miniature golf,  firewood, etc.


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## ronparise (Mar 18, 2013)

VegasBella said:


> So this part is a bit confusing to me because if you're having to make reservations for vacations 12-18 months out then why even bother with a "flexible" timeshare ownership like floating weeks or points? It seems like if you're already planning like that then most of the time cash would work better than points/floating weeks. Otherwise, it seems like a fixed week makes more sense. But I guess that's just me?
> 
> 
> .



This may be too simplistic but With timeshares you either plan ahead to get what you really want, or you look for the last minute deals and take what you can get.   Otherwise you have to be lucky

Timeshares are not for everyone, perhaps not for you


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## Rent_Share (Mar 18, 2013)

There was a scandal involving Glen Ivy Financial Double selling Thousands of intervals 25 + Years ago.

https://www.google.com/search?source=ig&rlz=1R2MXGB_enUS510&q=Glen+Ivy+Timeshare+Scandal&oq=&gs_l=

There was some minor discusion of a resort miscalulating and selling extra week 53's


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## bogey21 (Mar 18, 2013)

ronparise said:


> This may be too simplistic but With timeshares you either plan ahead to get what you really want, or you look for the last minute deals and take what you can get.   Otherwise you have to be lucky



Not simplistic at all.

Fixed Weeks can be flexible too.  In addition to exchanging and last minute deals I found that Management at 4 of the 7 relatively small HOA managed Resorts where I owned Fixed Weeks would work with me to swap my Week with another co-operating Owner at the Resort or into a Week that for one reason or another would otherwise be going unused.  *My point is that if you own at certain Resorts Fixed is not always Fixed.*
George


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## timeos2 (Mar 18, 2013)

bogey21 said:


> Not simplistic at all.
> 
> Fixed Weeks can be flexible too.  In addition to exchanging and last minute deals I found that Management at 4 of the 7 relatively small HOA managed Resorts where I owned Fixed Weeks would work with me to swap my Week with another co-operating Owner at the Resort or into a Week that for one reason or another would otherwise be going unused.  *My point is that if you own at certain Resorts Fixed is not always Fixed.*
> George



That is true, and in fact we've done it a couple times too, but to depend on it as part of a fixed week ownership is stretching things. If you buy a fixed week assume that unless you pay to exchange you are likely stuck with it. It should not be considered flexible in the normal sense of that term.


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## pacodemountainside (Mar 18, 2013)

Rent_Share said:


> There was a scandal involving Glen Ivy Financial Double selling Thousands of intervals 25 + Years ago.
> 
> https://www.google.com/search?source=ig&rlz=1R2MXGB_enUS510&q=Glen+Ivy+Timeshare+Scandal&oq=&gs_l=
> 
> There was some minor discusion of a resort miscalulating and selling extra week 53's



A couple months ago I go a legal  letter saying my Wyndham Nashville points were screwed  up, but   hang loose big brother  had taken care of!


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## vacationhopeful (Mar 18, 2013)

Rent_Share said:


> ...There was some minor discusion of a resort miscalulating and selling extra week 53's



Don't worry, Wyndham Sea Gardens has figured out how to get Week 52 Fixed Week owners to pay for Week 53 --- they just collect a portion of week 53 MFs every year. Mandatory -- now I won't be HOMELESS during those years of Week 53s.


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## VegasBella (Mar 18, 2013)

timeos2 said:


> Free weeks at any resort can be an issue because it means people may feel they have no real value and thus are the first to consider an end to paying their fees. No matter what season / value YOU own you get hurt by those non-payments (your fees may go up to pay for the delinquents). Every Association should be taking steps to minimize delinquents and to try to address extremely lw pricing on any resale ownerships.



What are good steps to take? What should an HOA be doing?

What are good signs that a resort has an HOA working to prevent that?


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## DeniseM (Mar 18, 2013)

VegasBella said:


> What are good steps to take? What should an HOA be doing?
> 
> What are good signs that a resort has an HOA working to prevent that?



The problem is that most HOA's simply rubber stamp the Management Company's recommendations - which benefit the Management Co.  Very few HOA's are actually independent, because the management company is in control of elections to the BOD.  They manipulate the elections to place "yes men" on the BOD and then tell them what to do.


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## bogey21 (Mar 19, 2013)

DeniseM said:


> The problem is that most HOA's simply rubber stamp the Management Company's recommendations - which benefit the Management Co.  Very few HOA's are actually independent......



Exactly why I ended up owning at 7 HOA controlled Independent Resorts.  The downside is that in most cases the units are not as nice and you lose attractive trading options.  The upside is usually lower MFs, superior locations and Management flexibility.  Take your choice.

George


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## timeos2 (Mar 19, 2013)

VegasBella said:


> What are good steps to take? What should an HOA be doing?



Supply owners with viable options to market any resale offers. Set up an approved resale channel (assuring no up-front fee scams, false "buyers", etc). Consider allowing deed backs if that is in best interest of the Association as a whole. Be proactive with any delinquencies - do not allow them to grow to large amounts. Work with third parties to set up various points and/or trust based programs. Consider innovative approaches to delinquent time such as RTU leases or rent to buy. 



VegasBella said:


> What are good signs that a resort has an HOA working to prevent that?



High collections (95% plus is excellent as there will always be at least some "churn" of owners each year), active collection efforts utilizing all resources for those ownerships that are delinquent, annual independent audit available to owner review, open and complete communications to owners from both Management and the HOA Board.


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## JudyS (Mar 22, 2013)

I just saw this thread mentioned in the weekly TUG newsletter!



VegasBella said:


> ....
> The first thing is *floating weeks*. For example, I've heard that some places sell more floating weeks than they could possibly accomodate....



It's illegal for a resort to sell more weeks than they have, and it rarely happens in the US. Even when it does happen, it's usually a mistake, usually involves just a few weeks, and the HOA usually finds a way to make owners whole -- perhaps by re-deeding them into weeks the HOA owns, or (in the case of vacation clubs) by buying some more weeks at other resorts.

There is currently a thread here about a resort that accidentally sold too many weeks and took away an owner's week without compensation, but this is the first time I've heard of this happening at a US resort in the 9-or-so years I've been on TUG. (Do a search here for "Lagonita" for more details.)

There is also a very expensive resort, the Manhattan Club, where owners are concerned that management may be renting out time that the owners are entitled to use. I don't own at the Manhattan Club, so I don't know whether this complaint is true or not. However, few resorts rent for enough per night to make that sort of shenanigans worthwhile, and most that do rent for a lot per night are part of a high-end hotel brand and probably wouldn't want to risk their reputation.

I think "overselling" resorts is so rare (at least in the US) that it isn't worth worrying about.  (And if you live in the US, I strongly recommend that your first resort be in the US, to avoid currency exchange issues, hassles in transferring ownership, and differences in consumer protections and local real estate laws.)



VegasBella said:


> ....
> Also, the way some floating systems work is very complicated and it seems unlikely that an owner would get the week they want very often.



This can be a real problem IF the the actual high season in that area is brief, but the resort has sold weeks that float over a long period. For example, I own at a beach resort in Southern California where most people want July or August, but the resort sold all of weeks 9 through 48 as "high season." There is huge competition among owners for summer weeks, and a fistfight actually broke out one year between owners who had lined up in the wee hours of the morning to try to book July 4th week for the following year. (Booking opened at 5:30 am.) 

The way to avoid these problems is own at a resort where the "prime" or "high" season truly includes only high season weeks, or at worst includes high season plus a few shoulder season weeks. (Regarding my Southern California resort, I have always been able to get a July or August week, but I often have to call several times before I get a week, and therefore don't have a choice as to *which* July or August week I end up with. And, I don't even try to get July 4th week.) 

Southern California seems to be the *region* of the country with the most problems with floating weeks. Of all the major *brands*, Marriott seems to be the one with the most complaints about booking floating weeks, but I don't own Marriott so I don't have any personal experience booking with them. (Also, Marriott has now introduced a points-based product.)



VegasBella said:


> ....
> The next thing is the *maintenance fees*. It doesn't really make sense to me why the fees are the same for all the weeks. It seems like the system should be set up so that the weeks that are in higher demand have higher fees than the weeks in low demand. Or that the fees should be related to the actual services provided during the week someone owns/uses. Why in the world are they evenly distributed among the owners?


As John (Timeos2) mentioned, state law often requires that all week owners be charged the same amount, regardless of whether their week is high season or low season. The only state I know of that allows lower weekly fees in the off-season is Colorado. In many (but not all) resorts in Colorado, spring & fall weeks have lower fees than summer and winter weeks. At at least a few Colorado resorts, winter weeks (ski season) have higher fees than summer weeks.

By having a points-based system rather than a week-based system, resorts can get around laws that require all time periods to have the same fees. So, instead of charging the same MF *per week*, the resort charges the same MF *per point *(or per 1,000 points, say), and then requires fewer points for stays in the off-season. However, many older resorts were built before points systems were popular, and are stuck with the older weeks-based system. (A few older resorts have taken creative approaches to lowering fees in the off-season, such as selling RCI Points packages for those time periods.) 



VegasBella said:


> ...
> I had noticed that resale purchase prices for a resort I'm looking at with fixed weeks go from FREE to nearly $20k and it's all because of the season. But any time a timeshare is free it makes me worry about the place - there's some sort of problem in how the system functions if people want to give away their timeshares for free. And wouldn't that eventually have some negative impact on the other, more valued weeks?....


There are some very nice resorts that have free weeks available, including sometimes free fixed or floating weeks in high season. There are basically three reasons why "desirable" free weeks are available: 1) The timeshare resale market is "inefficient" -- few people know about the existence of timeshare resales, and there is no centralized market for reselling timeshares, like there is for homes; 2) At many older resorts a large percentage of owners are too old to travel or have passed away; and 3) The "great recession" meant a lot of owners could no longer afford timeshares. 

Whether owners wanting out has a negative impact on the entire resort depends on a number of factors, such as what percentage of owners want out, and whether the HOA is proactive in looking for new owners or otherwise bringing in revenue from unused weeks (usually, this means renting out HOA-owned weeks, but a few resorts have tried creative things like short-term right-to-use RCI Points packages.) 

This brings me to another one of your questions, about finding a resort where the owners have control. First of all, if the resort has a big timeshare brand as part of its name (Wyndham, Marriott, Bluegreen, etc) then it almost certainly is controlled by that company, not an independent HOA board. (There are a few exceptions where a large timeshare company built a resort, and then the owners managed to boot them out as the management company.) 

As has been previously said here, most of the nicest resorts are developer-controlled, not owner controlled, so if you want a really nice resort, you may have no choice but to buy at one controlled by the developer. I tend to feel that if a particular timeshare developer also has a high-end hotel product, then they have an incentive not to anger their owners. However, there have been some major hotel brands that have managed to anger a lot of timeshare owners, so even this is no guarantee. (If you want to see what I mean, read some on the threads from 2009 on the Starwood board concerning MFs, special assessments, and changes in how weeks were deposited into exchange companies.) 

If you want an owner-controlled resort, one way to find an one is to look at the websites of some of the independent management companies. These are companies that independent HOAs hire to help run the resort and (more importantly) the HOA can fire the management company if not happy. The two biggest independent management companies are VRI and Trading Places. I own a bunch of VRI-managed weeks, and their website is http://www.8664myvacation.com/rentHome.php

I am very happy with VRI, but a few TUG members are unhappy with VRI because VRI tries to get resorts to do a lot of upgrades. (When a resort does an upgrade, the management company generally gets some money for managing the project.) I think it really depends on how nice you want the resort to be -- if you are just using the resort to exchange in RCI, you may not care if the resort is nice or not. If you stay at the resort, rent out your week, or exchange through a quality-sensitive exchange company (II or SFX), then you may be happier with a resort that does a lot of upgrades. 

I don't have experience with Trading Places as a management company, but I have been very happy with them as an exchange company.


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## ronparise (Mar 22, 2013)

JudyS said:


> By having a points-based system rather than a week-based system, resorts can get around laws that require all time periods to have the same fees. So, instead of charging the same MF *per week*, the resort charges the same MF *per point *(or per 1,000 points, say), and then requires fewer points for stays in the off-season. However, many older resorts were built before points systems were popular, and are stuck with the older weeks-based system. (A few older resorts have taken creative approaches to lowering fees in the off-season, such as selling RCI Points packages for those time periods.)



JudyS

Really a good job explaining the almost unexplainable...Thanks

One small point of clarification regarding the paragraph I quoted above. Specifically with regard to Wyndham. Wyndham is one of those systems that started out as fixed weeks. Over time many fixed week owners converted their weeks to points...In the conversion, prime season weeks were allocated more points than low season weeks. So the end result is you can have two owners at the same resort paying the same maintenance fees each year. but one owner gets more points than the other. Do the math and you see the dollars per point is different from season to season. So the unfairness of equal maintenance fees no matter the season continues. I own one converted week at a resort where I pay $8/1000 points and another converted week at vthe same resort where I pay $4.80/1000 points

Another point to mention here is the "law of unintended consequences"  Yes I just made that up. But its true, that no matter what a well - intentioned HOA might do to keep up their income in the face of an aging facility and owner base. there will be un intended consequences. 

As an example, I own at a resort where the the floating weeks float over nearly the entire year (there are just five event (fixed) weeks). This resort also has a 17% bad debt entry in their budget, ie 17% of the intervals are not generating income. To overcome this budget shortfall they "rent" weeks, not to the general public, but to the owners..each owner can have an additional "right to use" week each year if they pay an additional mf.  An additional really nice feature here is split week reservations. We can split our weeks into a three night and a four night reservation. The intended consequence of increased income and a satisfied owner base is achieved ...the budget also has an entry for "other income" that matches the bad debt I mentioned above. 

A casual observer might say that our board has really done a good job mitigating the effect of defaults on the budget, and done things to make this a most attractive ownership for those of us that do pay, thereby keeping us happy and paying. The recent renovation done here and the repair of some hurricane damage, without the need for a special assessment or increase in fees is further evidence of the good job that they are doing keeping us happy

But what about the unintended consequences   An owner of one week at this resort can actually make four reservations of 3 or 4 nights each, in each of four different weeks.  and even though every week is a red week, summer here is really hot and uncomfortable, so no one wants to visit in the summer. 

The result of summer vacancies, and the 4 reservations made with one ownership is that there are always owners that cant get the week they want and often cant even get any week to deposit with RCI or II..They are completely shut out...They paid their fees and they get nothing...

So be careful with what you wish for...you might just get it


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## VegasBella (Mar 22, 2013)

Thanks, Judy! You've been really helpful!



JudyS said:


> This can be a real problem IF the the actual high season in that area is brief, but the resort has sold weeks that float over a long period. For example, I own at a beach resort in Southern California where most people want July or August, but the resort sold all of weeks 9 through 48 as "high season." There is huge competition among owners for summer weeks, and a fistfight actually broke out one year between owners who had lined up in the wee hours of the morning to try to book July 4th week for the following year. (Booking opened at 5:30 am.)
> 
> The way to avoid these problems is own at a resort where the "prime" or "high" season truly includes only high season weeks, or at worst includes high season plus a few shoulder season weeks. (Regarding my Southern California resort, I have always been able to get a July or August week, but I often have to call several times before I get a week, and therefore don't have a choice as to *which* July or August week I end up with. And, I don't even try to get July 4th week.)
> 
> Southern California seems to be the *region* of the country with the most problems with floating weeks.



OMG! Great. Southern CA is where I'm trying to buy!

Is that San Clemente Inn? You said you own there in another thread and they have a Summer float season that is week 9-48. When I called to ask how reservations worked they told me that people "camp out" to get their reservations for the next year. I thought she was joking. But now you're saying people are literally fighting over the reservations! Wow. 

So if I buy there and I want July or August weeks then I need to do what you do and call multiple times 12 months out and forget about holiday weeks. Hmm. Something to consider.


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## buzglyd (Mar 22, 2013)

VegasBella said:


> Thanks, Judy! You've been really helpful!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



That's does seem like to much hassle and too much potential for problems. 

Perhaps a nice off-season gift to the staff would help. ;-)

My summer week is fixed and I find that very comforting.


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## VegasBella (Mar 22, 2013)

ronparise said:


> As an example, I own at a resort where the the floating weeks float over nearly the entire year (there are just five event (fixed) weeks). This resort also has a 17% bad debt entry in their budget, ie 17% of the intervals are not generating income. To overcome this budget shortfall they "rent" weeks, not to the general public, but to the owners..each owner can have an additional "right to use" week each year if they pay an additional mf.  An additional really nice feature here is split week reservations. We can split our weeks into a three night and a four night reservation. The intended consequence of increased income and a satisfied owner base is achieved ...the budget also has an entry for "other income" that matches the bad debt I mentioned above.
> 
> A casual observer might say that our board has really done a good job mitigating the effect of defaults on the budget, and done things to make this a most attractive ownership for those of us that do pay, thereby keeping us happy and paying. The recent renovation done here and the repair of some hurricane damage, without the need for a special assessment or increase in fees is further evidence of the good job that they are doing keeping us happy
> 
> ...



That's in NOLA right? So if you own an event week you're golden but any other week and you might be screwed. EEkk! 

We were considering trying to get a timeshare in order to visit the week or two before Mardi Gras week. We want the family experience with all the parades, not the party/tourist experience of the actual day/night of Mardi Gras. So our plan was to try to buy Mardi Gras because that week would hold it's value and we wouldn't have any trouble unloading it later if we wanted/needed to. So we were going to buy that week and then exchange it for the week we actually wanted to use. But now you're saying that strategy might not work if our exchange options are limited. It sounds like it would stil work so long as we didn't plan on staying at the resort we were going to buy at.

Again... this is all soooooo complicated!


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## VegasBella (Mar 22, 2013)

buzglyd said:


> My summer week is fixed and I find that very comforting.


I can see why!


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## buzglyd (Mar 22, 2013)

ronparise said:


> JudyS
> 
> Really a good job explaining the almost unexplainable...Thanks
> 
> ...



Interesting. 

At Gaslamp we can split weeks but it still only includes one weekend. Also, I think if you split the week, you can only do that 90 days in advance.


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## Beefnot (Mar 22, 2013)

ronparise said:


> JudyS
> Another point to mention here is the "law of unintended consequences"  Yes I just made that up.



Ron, what did you exactly make up?


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## ronparise (Mar 22, 2013)

Beefnot said:


> Ron, what did you exactly make up?



Its not really a law, is it?


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## ronparise (Mar 22, 2013)

buzglyd said:


> Interesting.
> 
> At Gaslamp we can split weeks but it still only includes one weekend. Also, I think if you split the week, you can only do that 90 days in advance.



I can do 2 weekends, even the same weekend twice (or 4 times if I use my right to use week)


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## Beefnot (Mar 22, 2013)

ronparise said:


> Its not really a law, is it?



Actually, it is, believe it or not. Couple links:

http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-the-law-of-unintended-consequences.htm
http://www.forbes.com/sites/jeffrey...ded-consequences-the-worst-misake-in-decades/


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## pacodemountainside (Mar 22, 2013)

LIKE WOW!  What one can learn on TUG!


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## csxjohn (Mar 22, 2013)

Every time you think you come up with something new you find out someone's been there done that ages ago.

I remember as a youth thinking that those older than my generation had no idea about the F word.  Wrong again.


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## TUGBrian (Mar 22, 2013)

definately one of the most helpful threads ive read in awahile! (in terms of owners helping someone out)


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## pacodemountainside (Mar 22, 2013)

VegasBella said:


> That's in NOLA right? So if you own an event week you're golden but any other week and you might be screwed. EEkk!
> 
> We were considering trying to get a timeshare in order to visit the week or two before Mardi Gras week. We want the family experience with all the parades, not the party/tourist experience of the actual day/night of Mardi Gras. So our plan was to try to buy Mardi Gras because that week would hold it's value and we wouldn't have any trouble unloading it later if we wanted/needed to. So we were going to buy that week and then exchange it for the week we actually wanted to use. But now you're saying that strategy might not work if our exchange options are limited. It sounds like it would stil work so long as we didn't plan on staying at the resort we were going to buy at.
> 
> Again... this is all soooooo complicated!



Actually  just requires  some time  and patience to  understand.

AVP is a great resort especially for  families at Mardi Gras time. Many kids on ladders!

While  5 special event weeks sell for a premium  a couple weeks before  Mardi Gras is easy  to book with Wyndham points. Other than  Super Bowl this year week  before is not hard to get at 10 month mark.  Used CWA to book Mardi Gras 2014.

My  deed trades both II and RCI  and by booking at 18 months out have no trouble getting great reservations, but as Ron warns come late  fall  of use year one is SOL.

For example,  I book my  floating red week  week at 18 months and bank with RCI and get around 19 TPUs. I  book bonus week   3-4 nighters for say  4th  of July and Halloween  and rent for enough to cover all MF  which have to be paid at time of reservation.

MF are very reasonable  $660 for  if converted 140K points or $4.72, no POA fee and  VOI garbage.

A CWA 154K contract would cost about $850 in MF and no bonus week but include   "free"  RCI membership!


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## ronparise (Mar 22, 2013)

Beefnot said:


> Actually, it is, believe it or not. Couple links:
> 
> http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-the-law-of-unintended-consequences.htm
> http://www.forbes.com/sites/jeffrey...ded-consequences-the-worst-misake-in-decades/



Im either smarter than I think I am or a lousy  plagerist ...or maybe both


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## pacodemountainside (Mar 22, 2013)

csxjohn said:


> Every time you think you come up with something new you find out someone's been there done that ages ago.
> 
> I remember as a youth thinking that those older than my generation had no idea about the F word.  Wrong again.



How did you think you  got into gestation and eventually the world?

Ye olde stork???


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## ronparise (Mar 22, 2013)

VegasBella said:


> That's in NOLA right? So if you own an event week you're golden but any other week and you might be screwed. EEkk!
> 
> We were considering trying to get a timeshare in order to visit the week or two before Mardi Gras week. We want the family experience with all the parades, not the party/tourist experience of the actual day/night of Mardi Gras. So our plan was to try to buy Mardi Gras because that week would hold it's value and we wouldn't have any trouble unloading it later if we wanted/needed to. So we were going to buy that week and then exchange it for the week we actually wanted to use. But now you're saying that strategy might not work if our exchange options are limited. It sounds like it would stil work so long as we didn't plan on staying at the resort we were going to buy at.
> 
> Again... this is all soooooo complicated!



It is New Orleans, specifically Wyndhams Avenue Plaza Resort.  One could get screwed here but with a little planning probably not. I shouldnt admit and certainly shouldnt be proud of it, but Im the "screwer", not the "screwee"  or maybe a better way to put it is I come out on top ...(no I guess thats not a better way to put it"  In any case I use my 10 weeks here to book 40 weekend reservations.  Three more weeks and Ill be able to control one whole suite...if I get what I want, (and I will) somebody else is going to be left out at the end of the year

as far as you making a reservation for the week before Mardi Gras, you will have to use your Wyndham Points or Worldmark Credits because for the floating weeks owners, the week before Mardi Gras is an Event week

This is a complicated resort..Event weeks, Floating weeks, Wyndham Converted (to points) Weeks and Worldmark Credits..each with its own set of rules...Its not rocket science, and if I can figure it out so can you

The point I was trying to make with the specific example is that lots of resorts have their own rules. and you should know what you want and how those rules might affect you, before you buy


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## VegasBella (Mar 22, 2013)

ronparise said:


> The point I was trying to make with the specific example is that lots of resorts have their own rules. and you should know what you want and how those rules might affect you, before you buy


Point taken.

Hmm... maybe it would be a good idea for TUG to add that kind of info to the "resort database".


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## DeniseM (Mar 22, 2013)

VegasBella said:


> Point taken.
> 
> Hmm... maybe it would be a good idea for TUG to add that kind of info to the "resort database".



TUG is a completely volunteer organization - every word on TUG was written by a volunteer.  How many can I sign you up for?


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## VegasBella (Mar 22, 2013)

DeniseM said:


> TUG is a completely volunteer organization - every word on TUG was written by a volunteer.  How many can I sign you up for?



I'd be happy to help maintain the TUG resort database regarding the resorts I will own. I already submitted two reviews. And I plan to submit info to the sales history after my purchases close. 

I do highly value this website and as you can see I'm already contributing to it by starting and participating in threads, posting reviews, purchasing a membership, etc. I probably will NOT wear a TUG t-shirt, however, because I don't wear t-shirts except to bed.

Please don't take my suggestions for improvement as criticism. They are not intended as criticism.


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## DeniseM (Mar 22, 2013)

Thanks for the reviews!  I was just letting you know, because many new members assume that we have a paid staff that maintains the webpage, and actually we have TUGBrian and his word warriors.


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## JudyS (Mar 23, 2013)

ronparise said:


> JudyS
> 
> Really a good job explaining the almost unexplainable...Thanks...


Thank you for the compliment, Ron! 

For the past ten years, I have been working on a biography of entertainer Michael Jackson. So, I have a lot of practice in trying to "explain the almost unexplainable." :rofl:



VegasBella said:


> ...
> OMG! Great. Southern CA is where I'm trying to buy!
> 
> Is that San Clemente Inn? You said you own there in another thread and they have a Summer float season that is week 9-48. When I called to ask how reservations worked they told me that people "camp out" to get their reservations for the next year. I thought she was joking. But now you're saying people are literally fighting over the reservations! Wow.
> ...


Oh, you have done your homework! Yes, it's San Clemente Inn. However, any timeshare near the beach in SoCal will have the same problem if it has a long float season. Fixed summer weeks at other resorts in SoCal are available, but tend to be costly and/or hard to find.

It's possible to reserve a summer week at San Clemente Inn by mail or fax, but you may not get your first choice week, and you won't be able to get July 4th week that way.  

If you plan to stay at San Clemente Inn (rather than exchange your week or rent it out), then I think the best approach by far is to trade in with RCI Points. One option would be to buy an RCI Points contract with reasonable MFs per Point at another resort managed by VRI. I often see summer availability at San Clemente Inn at the 11-month Home Group reservation window, and the points required to book San Clemente Inn are ridiculously low. It costs 34000 or less for San Clemente Inn units in midsummer, depending on unit size. If your MFs are 1 penny per RCI Point, then you can get a week for $499 or less ($340 in MFs for the largest size, plus $159 RCI Points exchange fee.)

Another approach would be to look for an already-converted high-season RCI Points week at San Clemente Inn, and then book during your Home Week window or your Home Resort window. This gives a higher chance of getting the exact summer week you want, but you would have to pay the full San Clemente Inn MFs, which are currently about $700 for a sleeps-4 one-bedroom. If you booked a week during your Home Week window and couldn't use it, you would be allowed to rent it out, but would have to pay RCI's $59 Guest Certificate fee. 

You could also use RCI Points to trade into a resort in NOLA, but I don't know what availability is like during the time period when you want to go. Maybe someone here could comment on whether an ongoing search would be likely to get you the week you want.


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## JudyS (Mar 23, 2013)

ronparise said:


> ...
> The point I was trying to make with the specific example is that lots of resorts have their own rules. and you should know what you want and how those rules might affect you, before you buy





VegasBella said:


> ...
> Hmm... maybe it would be a good idea for TUG to add that kind of info to the "resort database".



There is an ongoing discussion about what should be in the TUG reviews:
http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=151561

One thing Brian says he plans to do is expand the "resort information" section. Maybe booking rules would be a good thing to add there, assuming there were volunteers to write this up.


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## bjones9942 (Mar 23, 2013)

This is an excellent thread!

I have a question that hasn't been covered.  Can someone explain the x in y rule trades?  For example, I see a lot of '1 in 4 rule applies'.  I'd assumed by the context that this means you can only trade once in every four years - but maybe I've missed something?

Thanks!


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## VegasBella (Mar 23, 2013)

JudyS said:


> If you plan to stay at San Clemente Inn (rather than exchange your week or rent it out), then I think the best approach by far is to trade in with RCI Points. One option would be to buy an RCI Points contract with reasonable MFs per Point at another resort managed by VRI. I often see summer availability at San Clemente Inn at the 11-month Home Group reservation window, and the points required to book San Clemente Inn are ridiculously low. It costs 34000 or less for San Clemente Inn units in midsummer, depending on unit size. If your MFs are 1 penny per RCI Point, then you can get a week for $499 or less ($340 in MFs for the largest size, plus $159 RCI Points exchange fee.)
> 
> Another approach would be to look for an already-converted high-season RCI Points week at San Clemente Inn, and then book during your Home Week window or your Home Resort window. This gives a higher chance of getting the exact summer week you want, but you would have to pay the full San Clemente Inn MFs, which are currently about $700 for a sleeps-4 one-bedroom. If you booked a week during your Home Week window and couldn't use it, you would be allowed to rent it out, but would have to pay RCI's $59 Guest Certificate fee.
> 
> You could also use RCI Points to trade into a resort in NOLA, but I don't know what availability is like during the time period when you want to go. Maybe someone here could comment on whether an ongoing search would be likely to get you the week you want.



Wow, that's complicated but interesting. 

Now you hae me exploring the RCI website and imaging going to Jamaica. Ahh! The possibilities!


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## pacodemountainside (Mar 23, 2013)

bjones9942 said:


> This is an excellent thread!
> 
> I have a question that hasn't been covered.  Can someone explain the x in y rule trades?  For example, I see a lot of '1 in 4 rule applies'.  I'd assumed by the context that this means you can only trade once in every four years - but maybe I've missed something?
> 
> Thanks!



Several resorts have a policy you can only exchange into once  every  3/4/5 years.  Common in Mexico but can be anywhere.

RCI honors this rule  and will not book  while II does not.

Sales weasels in Mexico often claim   this blackout applies to entire area, so the only way  one can get in is to buy from them.

I go to  Mexico every year  doing an RCI exchange and there are enough resorts I  have not had a problem.

I will do a sales  pitch  for $300 cash at resort we  would like to visit next year to scope  out!


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## ampaholic (Mar 23, 2013)

VegasBella said:


> Wow, that's complicated but interesting.
> 
> Now you hae me exploring the RCI website and imaging going to Jamaica. Ahh! The possibilities!



Three important things to consider with RCI Points are:

1. Your home resort and home group matters because:
You get a 303 days out reservation window at all RCI Points resorts (good)
You get 304-334 days out reservation window at your home group (better but still $149 for a reservation)
You get 335-364 days out reservation window at your home resort (best). I have a home resort where we go often, so I can book 12 months from now, a full 2 months before any non owners can, and the exchange fee is much less.

When you book into your home resort within the owners ARP you will only need to pay between zero and $40 bucks for a reservation! Cheap, cheap, cheap.

2. Don't get too many points - I used to have more but have pared down to 101K points every year and that's perfect for how we vacation.
Go here or here to learn how many points you'll need to do what you want to do. You can always rent more points to fill out a vacation - but having extra can be an issue to use before they expire.

3. When you buy don't overpay: A real smokin' solid deal is less than a penny per point in MF's costs along with closing under $300 and this years points thrown in for for free. A reasonable deal would be points @ a penny to 1.5 cents each in MF's along with $500 in closing and no free points IF it's at a resort you want for a home resort. A red week gives you more points per MF (generally) than a white or blue week.


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## VegasBella (Mar 24, 2013)

ampaholic said:


> You can always rent more points to fill out a vacation - but having extra can be an issue to use before they expire.


OK, good to know!

Can you rent points even if you don't own any at all?



ampaholic said:


> When you buy don't overpay: A real smokin' solid deal is less than a penny per point in MF's costs along with closing under $300 and this years points thrown in for for free. A reasonable deal would be points @ a penny to 1.5 cents each in MF's along with $500 in closing and no free points IF it's at a resort you want for a home resort. A red week gives you more points per MF (generally) than a white or blue week.


Very helpful. Thank you.

I'm still very scared of points so I don't think I will buy points or convert to points any time soon, but in case I change my mind this has been very informative.


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## UWSurfer (Mar 24, 2013)

As one who has owned at San Clemente Inn for several years & likes it, & one who just re-visited this thread after more than a week I thought I'd add that the HOA has many weeks up for sale direct from them at very reasonable prices. 

As already noted, if you are an owner and want 4th of July week you'll need to camp out at the VRI offices to get it.  If you have a range of several summer weeks you could accept, it's not too hard to get one of those provided you follow their procedures a year out from the date week you are looking for.   Funny thing though, the first couple years I stayed in early October when the weather is still nice & the resort quiet due to the lack of kids.  Several years later I stayed there on a summer week and nearly went nuts due to all the kid noise and buzz.  Now I usually book a week in May & if something last minute pops up in RCI points, I'll sometimes do a stay via points.   

I'll note though my week in RCI points is at a different resort.  I have a straight non-converted floating week at SCI and either use it or rent it out privately each year.


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## UWSurfer (Mar 24, 2013)

ps: regarding points....

There's nothing to be scared of with RCI points as they have practices in place for you to reserve your own resort in a home week period without charge or issue.   RCI points offers you a wide selection of resorts you otherwise might not have access to unless you owned several of the system that they come from.

That said it's often not practical to expect to get a highly desired week, location or unit by exchanging.   Most resorts give priority to their resort owners, followed by those in their own system, cash renters (to them) & then exchangers.  I've had several great exchanges & and a few not so great ones but we've never been placed in a prime desired unit at a given resort when exchanging in.   We've got some very nice last minute deals and have been surprised with very nice accommodations & have been pleased with the program.  We've also steered clear of some turkeys by being a TUG member and checking TUG user reviews of a potential property prior to booking.  

fyi


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## csxjohn (Mar 24, 2013)

JudyS said:


> ...However, any timeshare near the beach in SoCal will have the same problem if it has a long float season....It's possible to reserve a summer week at San Clemente Inn by mail or fax, but you may not get your first choice week, and you won't be able to get July 4th week that way.
> 
> ....



Another San Clemente timeshare does it a little differently, San Clemente Cove.  Right now they are receiving reservation cards in the mail for 2014.  You put down your choices, I believe 3, then around March they will start drawing cards according to postmark date.  All cards postmarked by Jan 3 are grouped together and picked at random.  You will get a week as close to what you requested that is still available when your card is picked.

By the middle of March or so, everyone will have their week assigned for next year, no camping out, no fisticuffs no phone roulette.  

I've traded in there twice through DAE but won't look at buying because of the absolute uncertainty of when I'd be going each year.


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## ampaholic (Mar 24, 2013)

VegasBella said:


> ...
> 
> Can you rent points even if you don't own any at all?
> 
> ...



I dont think so - but you can make a private deal with a friend who has points


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## JudyS (Mar 25, 2013)

csxjohn said:


> Another San Clemente timeshare does it a little differently, San Clemente Cove.  Right now they are receiving reservation cards in the mail for 2014.  You put down your choices, I believe 3, then around March they will start drawing cards according to postmark date.  All cards postmarked by Jan 3 are grouped together and picked at random.  You will get a week as close to what you requested that is still available when your card is picked.
> 
> By the middle of March or so, everyone will have their week assigned for next year, no camping out, no fisticuffs no phone roulette.
> 
> I've traded in there twice through DAE but won't look at buying because of the absolute uncertainty of when I'd be going each year.


Interesting -- do you know whether San Clemente Cove floats 1-52? 

Anyone own at San Clemente Cove? I'm wondering what the odds are of actually getting a summer week there.


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## csxjohn (Mar 25, 2013)

JudyS said:


> Interesting -- do you know whether San Clemente Cove floats 1-52?
> 
> Anyone own at San Clemente Cove? I'm wondering what the odds are of actually getting a summer week there.



Yes, it floats 1-52.

I talked to owners about this lottery type system when I exchanged there a year and a half ago.  I'd never heard of a system like it before so I did a little digging.

I found this news letter from the fall of 2011 talking about getting requests in for 2013.

http://www.sanclementecove.com/en/~/media/Files/SCC_FALL11Newsletter.ashx

If you're not one of the first 396 picked you won't get a summer week and with my luck I'd be picked at number 1000 every year and get who knows what?

When I want to visit I put in a request with my trading co. and if something comes up that I feel I can use I will take it, if not I pass.

I must say I love the resort and the location, across a small street and some RR tracks and you're on the ocean and the San Clemente Pier.  It's my second favorite to Tropic Shores only because I have to fly to get there.

(This shows how subjective ranking numbers can be.  If this was close enough to drive to I would rank it 1st.)


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## Ricardo (May 4, 2013)

*buy or rent*

Don't buy...RENT


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