# Do you intend to wear a GPS wristband in Hawaii?



## DannyTS (Aug 15, 2020)

Who would go to Hawaii and wear a GPS tracker? It does not sound like a vacation to me, I would rather stay home or go somewhere else. 






						Big-brand hotels roll out pandemic safety plans
					

WAILEA — With Neighbor Island hotels eyeing resort bubbles as a way to weather the COVID-19 storm, some big brands on Maui are investing hundreds of thousands of dollars in pandemic safety protocol ahead of a possible reopening. Officials with Four Seasons Resort Maui at Wailea and Wailea Beach...




					www.mauinews.com


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## Tamaradarann (Aug 15, 2020)

DannyTS said:


> Who would go to Hawaii and wear a GPS tracker? It does not sound like a vacation to me, I would rather stay home or go somewhere else.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Well I guess they thought you would like that better than what I proposed, "Anyone not getting a Covid-19 test with a negative result within 3 days of arriving in Hawaii would be escorted to a guarded quarantine facility for 14 days"


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## DannyTS (Aug 15, 2020)

Tamaradarann said:


> Well I guess they thought you would like that better than what I proposed, "Anyone not getting a Covid-19 test with a negative result within 3 days of arriving in Hawaii would be escorted to a guarded quarantine facility for 14 days"


284 new cases. At this pace, they will have to put GPS wristbands on the locals not on the visitors








						Hawaii passes the 5,000 mark with 220 new COVID cases on Sunday
					

There are 3,161 active cases in Hawaii.




					www.hawaiinewsnow.com


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## dsmrp (Aug 15, 2020)

275 of the 284 were on Oahu, so the neighbor islands are doing much better at keeping it at bay.


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## DannyTS (Aug 16, 2020)

dsmrp said:


> 275 of the 284 were on Oahu, so the neighbor islands are doing much better at keeping it at bay.


If the neighbor Islands  reported 9 cases they probably have a lot more.


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## jabberwocky (Aug 16, 2020)

The article doesn’t mention GPS. To me it sounds more like an active RFID system where sensors are located across the resort (I believe this is like the Disney Magicbands), rather than the combined RFID-GPS systems which are generally larger and much more expensive.  They could in theory get off resort coverage if they paired the RFID device with a cell phone that has location tracking - but I don’t think the wristbands themselves have GPS. 

Regardless, when I go to Hawaii we spend most of our time snorkeling, hiking or taking in the local culture and food. We may spend a day or two just relaxing at the resort if we’ve had a strenuous day.  But just staying on resort is not appealing at all.

The trouble with bubbles is that they burst easily. This is a nice idea in theory - but I give it less than one month before it’s abandoned (if it is ever adopted) because a local employee brings covid onto the resort or visitors balk at the restrictions.


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## CPNY (Aug 16, 2020)

Hawaii needs to stay closed until there is a vaccine.


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## dioxide45 (Aug 16, 2020)

CPNY said:


> Hawaii needs to stay closed until there is a vaccine.


The same could be said for just about Caribbean island nations. None of them really have extensive medical infrastructure. I don't know where all the money goes that these islands bring in through tourism and tax dollars.


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## CPNY (Aug 16, 2020)

dioxide45 said:


> The same could be said for just about Caribbean island nations. None of them really have extensive medical infrastructure. I don't know where all the money goes that these islands bring in through tourism and tax dollars.


Agreed. They should all stay closed until a vaccine. But it’s not that ideal to do so. I have inside knowledge that Aruba is shutting down this week. I know this because I booked a trip there for Friday and every time I book an island it closed the week I’m to arrive. I’m not holding my breath on this one.

I did just read an article that researchers have discovered the virus has been spreading in the community for months prior to March. I think we all knew this already. I just hope the spikes in cases are mostly asymptomatic. I for one an done with this virus.


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## Tamaradarann (Aug 16, 2020)

dioxide45 said:


> The same could be said for just about Caribbean island nations. None of them really have extensive medical infrastructure. I don't know where all the money goes that these islands bring in through tourism and tax dollars.



There are two statements that I should make with respect to your question:
- First, the money goes to support the local government and infrastructure.  Hawaii and the Caribbean Islands do not have an econony that can sustain itself without tourism.  They do not collect enough tax dollars from the local communies.  Tourism supports things that in other locations are supported by property taxes and income taxes paid by the local people.

- Second, their medical infrastruture is usually sufficient for the local people and tourists that usually come well and do not come to have non-emergency medical needs.  People do not go on vacation or take a trip when they are ill or need medical attention.  While accidents do happen and emergency illnesses do occur they are not very prevailent and life threatening like this virus.


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## JIMinNC (Aug 19, 2020)

CPNY said:


> Hawaii needs to stay closed until there is a vaccine.





dioxide45 said:


> The same could be said for just about Caribbean island nations. None of them really have extensive medical infrastructure. I don't know where all the money goes that these islands bring in through tourism and tax dollars.



The problem with this approach is a vaccine is not a silver bullet as some think it to be. It seems that a "good" vaccine might be only 60% or so effective, and the expectation is only about 60% of the population will get the vaccine. If those numbers are correct, then it seems a successful vaccine might only reduce the potential for spread by about a third or so. Also, even if a vaccine is available for wide distribution sometime in the first half of 2021, they are saying it could take up to a year to get to even that 60% vaccination level. These places could be looking at no tourism for another 12 -18 months, which would effectively destroy their tourism economies for much, much longer.


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## Tamaradarann (Aug 19, 2020)

JIMinNC said:


> The problem with this approach is a vaccine is not a silver bullet as some think it to be. It seems that a "good" vaccine might be only 60% or so effective, and the expectation is only about 60% of the population will get the vaccine. If those numbers are correct, then it seems a successful vaccine might only reduce the potential for spread by about a third or so. Also, even if a vaccine is available for wide distribution sometime in the first half of 2021, they are saying it could take up to a year to get to even that 60% vaccination level. These places could be looking at no tourism for another 12 -18 months, which would effectively destroy their tourism economies for much, much longer.



While I try not to be as pessimistic as you are with the effectiveness of the vaccine or the width of the distribution of the vaccine, I totally agree with your summary about destroying the tourism economies.  I feel already that the Hawaii tourism econony has been temporarily destroyed and it may take 5 or more years to get back to something that they would be considered substancial and may not ever get back to the way it was.


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## CPNY (Aug 19, 2020)

JIMinNC said:


> The problem with this approach is a vaccine is not a silver bullet as some think it to be. It seems that a "good" vaccine might be only 60% or so effective, and the expectation is only about 60% of the population will get the vaccine. If those numbers are correct, then it seems a successful vaccine might only reduce the potential for spread by about a third or so. Also, even if a vaccine is available for wide distribution sometime in the first half of 2021, they are saying it could take up to a year to get to even that 60% vaccination level. These places could be looking at no tourism for another 12 -18 months, which would effectively destroy their tourism economies for much, much longer.


I’m bad at making my sarcasm obvious lol. I feel the opposite. We need herd immunity. Looking at NYC, I’m hopeful that’s why we have hundreds of cases per day and not thousands. We had millions prior to testing


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## burg1121 (Aug 20, 2020)

*We've never made a successful vaccine for a coronavirus before. This is why it's so difficult*
https://www.abc.net.au/news/health/2020-04-17/coronavirus-vaccine-ian-frazer/12146616
I hope they are wrong.


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## TheTimeTraveler (Aug 20, 2020)

Speaking of a Corona Virus Vaccine;  the newest Flu Shot is now available.  Any takers, or do you feel like waiting until October before getting it ?


.


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## JIMinNC (Aug 20, 2020)

CPNY said:


> I’m bad at making my sarcasm obvious lol. I feel the opposite. We need herd immunity. Looking at NYC, I’m hopeful that’s why we have hundreds of cases per day and not thousands. We had millions prior to testing



Yeah, even though the often-quoted experts say that even New York is not yet near any kind of herd immunity, I do sometimes wonder about that, as you obviously are. There has been no resurgence up there, but admittedly, New York has still not gone as far in re-opening your economy as some other states have. Given the success achieved so far, though, I do wish NY would move a little more aggressively than they have been. If NY can reopen successfully and not face a resurgence, then that can provide a valuable data set for other states. Such an outcome could be indicative that some level of limited herd immunity, coupled with good hygiene and masks indoors, can keep infections under some reasonable control and allow people to go back to work.

Since case counts and hospitalizations are now dropping significantly in the places like Arizona and Florida that saw the big July surge - a result achieved with only minor, targeted rollbacks of their reopening - that's another instructive data point that maybe they have also reached some inflection point in population resistance. Louisiana is another interesting case study, as that state has the highest cumulative per capita infection rate in the US. They also experienced two peaks - one in spring and another in July - but it's notable that the place that was hit hardest in spring - New Orleans - saw very low rates of new infection in the July surge. Makes you go "Hmmm".

Hawaii and New Zealand could also be counter data points, demonstrating that even with strict lock downs and quarantines that essentially eliminate the virus, it will inevitably resurface once activity restarts within a "virgin" population.


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## 1Kflyerguy (Aug 20, 2020)

TheTimeTraveler said:


> Speaking of a Corona Virus Vaccine;  the newest Flu Shot is now available.  Any takers, or do you feel like waiting until October before getting it ?
> .



My wife and i always get our flu shots and this year will be an exception.  I usually get them right away, but have recently read its better to wait and get the shot in Sept or Oct for maximum effectiveness during the active flu season.  So i will wait until then for our shots, probably mid-September.


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## pedro47 (Aug 20, 2020)

Hopeful one day, we will wear a mask in Hawaii. LOL.


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## JanT (Aug 20, 2020)

I'm frustrated because Dr. Fauci recommended getting a flu shot as soon as possible, which we did 2 days ago.  Next thing I see is the CDC is saying to wait until September or October.  WTH?  Just wish they could get in step with this stuff.  Regardless, we got the shots and we'll see what happens.



1Kflyerguy said:


> My wife and i always get our flu shots and this year will be an exception.  I usually get them right away, but have recently read its better to wait and get the shot in Sept or Oct for maximum effectiveness during the active flu season.  So i will wait until then for our shots, probably mid-September.


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## CPNY (Aug 20, 2020)

JIMinNC said:


> Yeah, even though the often-quoted experts say that even New York is not yet near any kind of herd immunity, I do sometimes wonder about that, as you obviously are. There has been no resurgence up there, but admittedly, New York has still not gone as far in re-opening your economy as some other states have. Given the success achieved so far, though, I do wish NY would move a little more aggressively than they have been. If NY can reopen successfully and not face a resurgence, then that can provide a valuable data set for other states. Such an outcome could be indicative that some level of limited herd immunity, coupled with good hygiene and masks indoors, can keep infections under some reasonable control and allow people to go back to work.
> 
> Since case counts and hospitalizations are now dropping significantly in the places like Arizona and Florida that saw the big July surge - a result achieved with only minor, targeted rollbacks of their reopening - that's another instructive data point that maybe they have also reached some inflection point in population resistance. Louisiana is another interesting case study, as that state has the highest cumulative per capita infection rate in the US. They also experienced two peaks - one in spring and another in July - but it's notable that the place that was hit hardest in spring - New Orleans - saw very low rates of new infection in the July surge. Makes you go "Hmmm".
> 
> Hawaii and New Zealand could also be counter data points, demonstrating that even with strict lock downs and quarantines that essentially eliminate the virus, it will inevitably resurface once activity restarts within a "virgin" population.



When we look at the fact that T Cell immunity may play a larger role in protective immunity one has to ask themselves is this why NY isn’t spiking? NY hasn’t been the pillar of excellence when it comes to distancing. The parks never closed and were packed. Underground “raves” are happening. Hundreds of thousands have flocked to the streets to “party” and bar hop maskless. One may say NYC reached herd immunity due to the fact that we never had the test capabilities during the height of the pandemic. During my course of the virus, a week after my cough every one in all of the apartments started with the same terrible hacking cough (yes, I most likely gave it to the building, that’s living in NYC). No one here was tested. As a matter of fact, I qualified for a test when I contacted the Governors hotline and am still waiting to schedule my test.........since March 22nd! Of course I’ve had 5 others since now that testing is available. I remember cuomo in his earlier pressers talking about the waves that each city would face. NY first and the others to follow. Well, those others closed down within days of NYC. It is very possible that when they opened, they experienced their first wave. Also keep in mind, testing at the time Florida and the others opened was widely available. People were testing out of curiosity and many cases were asymptomatic. Imagine in NYC had the same testing in March that we do now! NYC cases would be in the millions I’d suspect. When you look at hospitalizations, you also have to ask, What criteria was directing admissions? Would people being admitted the past two months be sent home back in March? I’d say yes. The virus is real but the comparisons are skewed. As the cases grow in other states and the death count doesn’t grow as much as NY one may say NY did a horrendous job. Not only with the death count but the economic fall out with be much worse. Again, I don’t go by case count because testing was inaccurate and nonexistent to 90% of those with symptoms in March and April.


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## BJRSanDiego (Aug 21, 2020)

JanT said:


> I'm frustrated because Dr. Fauci recommended getting a flu shot as soon as possible, which we did 2 days ago.  Next thing I see is the CDC is saying to wait until September or October.  WTH?  Just wish they could get in step with this stuff.  Regardless, we got the shots and we'll see what happens.


I read somewhere, perhaps on the Covid-19 thread on Tug, that people who have had the annual Flu/influenza shot that either they had something like a 20% less chance of getting Covid or were less likely to die by 20% (Sorry, I don't recall which).  Also, people who had the annual pneumonia shot also had a 20 or 25% less chance.  

So, perhaps Fauci was factoring that in, or perhaps it was for an entirely different reason.


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## DannyTS (Aug 21, 2020)

Hawaii Gov. David Ige gives counties right to pursue resort travel bubbles
					

Sun, sand, surf and wait for it — wristlets or other devices for visitors willing to lock down at a Hawaii resort.




					www.staradvertiser.com


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## JIMinNC (Aug 21, 2020)

CPNY said:


> When we look at the fact that T Cell immunity may play a larger role in protective immunity one has to ask themselves is this why NY isn’t spiking? NY hasn’t been the pillar of excellence when it comes to distancing. The parks never closed and were packed. Underground “raves” are happening. Hundreds of thousands have flocked to the streets to “party” and bar hop maskless. One may say NYC reached herd immunity due to the fact that we never had the test capabilities during the height of the pandemic. During my course of the virus, a week after my cough every one in all of the apartments started with the same terrible hacking cough (yes, I most likely gave it to the building, that’s living in NYC). No one here was tested. As a matter of fact, I qualified for a test when I contacted the Governors hotline and am still waiting to schedule my test.........since March 22nd! Of course I’ve had 5 others since now that testing is available. I remember cuomo in his earlier pressers talking about the waves that each city would face. NY first and the others to follow. Well, those others closed down within days of NYC. It is very possible that when they opened, they experienced their first wave. Also keep in mind, testing at the time Florida and the others opened was widely available. People were testing out of curiosity and many cases were asymptomatic. Imagine in NYC had the same testing in March that we do now! NYC cases would be in the millions I’d suspect. When you look at hospitalizations, you also have to ask, What criteria was directing admissions? Would people being admitted the past two months be sent home back in March? I’d say yes. The virus is real but the comparisons are skewed. As the cases grow in other states and the death count doesn’t grow as much as NY one may say NY did a horrendous job. Not only with the death count but the economic fall out with be much worse. Again, I don’t go by case count because testing was inaccurate and nonexistent to 90% of those with symptoms in March and April.



Agree. The huge death rate in NY/NJ/CT relative to what other hot spots are experiencing now certainly would seem to indicate that actual caseloads in NY/NJ/CT were orders of magnitude higher than what was detected. Better treatment options now may explain some of the difference, but that is likely only a small part of the difference. I just saw this article below on a huge NYC antibody study. Some areas over 50% have antibodies, but much lower in the more affluent areas of Manhattan. Overall average for the city was like 27%. If you factor in the T-Cell resistance (which based on an article I saw yesterday seems not really to be "immunity" per se, but increases the chances of mild or asymptomatic cases), I suspect NYC could probably re-open their economy faster than they have. Right now though, they don't seem to have the political motivation. I fear many wonderful small family-owned restaurants in the city will continue to be devastated and will never recover.

NY Times: NYC Antibody study

I didn't realize that you had Covid. Glad you recovered well.


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## 1Kflyerguy (Aug 21, 2020)

The resort bubble idea in interesting, but I am skeptical.  The are some resorts i could probably be happy spending my time at, at least for short trip.  But then the airfare starts to play a big factor if the trip is just 4 or 5 days.  A lot would also depend on what services are available,  and of course how I am feeling about whatever "crowds" they can convince to go.


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## DannyTS (Aug 21, 2020)

If we were to rank the resorts, what are the best suited for a bubble? I am thinking between Marriott Ko Olina and one of the HGVC resorts in Honolulu.


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## MommaBear (Aug 21, 2020)

DannyTS said:


> If we were to rank the resorts, what are the best suited for a bubble? I am thinking between Marriott Ko Olina and one of the HGVC resorts in Honolulu.


I'd enjoy the Westin Kaanapali and Westin Kaanapali North Resort Villas.. not sure whether they could include Westin Nanea.


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## mrsmusic (Aug 21, 2020)

DannyTS said:


> If we were to rank the resorts, what are the best suited for a bubble? I am thinking between Marriott Ko Olina and one of the HGVC resorts in Honolulu.


Yeah I'd be fine with Marriott Ko'Olina as long as we had access to the beach and pools, and some food 
HGVC on Waikiki would be ok too but would be a lot harder to "bubble" due to adjoining areas.


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## DannyTS (Aug 21, 2020)

mrsmusic said:


> Yeah I'd be fine with Marriott Ko'Olina as long as we had access to the beach and pools, and some food
> HGVC on Waikiki would be ok too but would be a lot harder to "bubble" due to adjoining areas.


That is what I thought. Initially I found the idea of a bubble ridiculous, at least for our situation, I would not go through all the hassle of booking just to stay confined at the resort. But given that we already have a booking for December at MKO (including flights) it made me think I should not cancel my reservation yet. A resort bubble would eliminate the risk of a completely ruined vacation (stuck in the room) in case the test results do not come in time. Not ideal of course but still better on the beach than in Canada during the winter.


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## Foggy1 (Aug 21, 2020)

DannyTS said:


> Not ideal of course but still better on the beach than in Canada during the winter.


This is true.  However, remember that beaches are owned by the state and are not resort property.  The article said that contact with people outside the resort bubble and locals would be protected against.  My guess would be that beaches would be off limit until quarantine was over.


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## 1Kflyerguy (Aug 22, 2020)

Foggy1 said:


> This is true.  However, remember that beaches are owned by the state and are not resort property.  The article said that contact with people outside the resort bubble and locals would be protected against.  My guess would be that beaches would be off limit until quarantine was over.



While it's true the beaches are public, but my guess is they find a way to provide the guests with access to specific beaches.  If they provide a way for people to come to Hawaii but forbid you from enjoying the ocean, the number of people that actually go to Hawaii will remain very small.


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## CPNY (Aug 22, 2020)

JIMinNC said:


> Agree. The huge death rate in NY/NJ/CT relative to what other hot spots are experiencing now certainly would seem to indicate that actual caseloads in NY/NJ/CT were orders of magnitude higher than what was detected. Better treatment options now may explain some of the difference, but that is likely only a small part of the difference. I just saw this article below on a huge NYC antibody study. Some areas over 50% have antibodies, but much lower in the more affluent areas of Manhattan. Overall average for the city was like 27%. If you factor in the T-Cell resistance (which based on an article I saw yesterday seems not really to be "immunity" per se, but increases the chances of mild or asymptomatic cases), I suspect NYC could probably re-open their economy faster than they have. Right now though, they don't seem to have the political motivation. I fear many wonderful small family-owned restaurants in the city will continue to be devastated and will never recover.
> 
> NY Times: NYC Antibody study
> 
> I didn't realize that you had Covid. Glad you recovered well.


Thank you. Yeah, me and the rest of NY! Sadly, I think NYC is done. The shut down has decimated the city and (not to be political) but our Governor is doing more harm than good. He and the mayor think “New York has been through worse and will be back better than ever” I completely disagree. This may be the worst. Yes, even worse than 9-11. The loss of life is greater and the economic fallout will be worse. I see no less than 5 moving trucks a day taking people out of the city. I myself am at the point.


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## Tamaradarann (Aug 23, 2020)

CPNY said:


> Thank you. Yeah, me and the rest of NY! Sadly, I think NYC is done. The shut down has decimated the city and (not to be political) but our Governor is doing more harm than good. He and the mayor think “New York has been through worse and will be back better than ever” I completely disagree. This may be the worst. Yes, even worse than 9-11. The loss of life is greater and the economic fallout will be worse. I see no less than 5 moving trucks a day taking people out of the city. I myself am at the point.



I agree with you on alot of points here.  This is worse than 9-11, even for NYC, we live on Long Island so we don't personally know but from what I have heard this shutdown has decimated the city as we know it.  From an business and economic point of view the Governor has done more harm than good, however, from a life saving point of view the Governor gets straight A's.

The same things could be said about Hawaii and Governor Ige in Hawaii evern though the numbers there have recently gone up.  If the usual mass of tourists had been coming to Hawaii since March who know how many cases thee would have been and people would have died!

As far as people moving out of the city, I can't speak for NYC but I can speak for Honolulu.  We own a high rise condo in Honolulu as well as a private house.  We left Honolulu in late March and have been on Long Island since.  We are so glad we did.  While we love the Honolulu that we know from pre Covid, we don't love the Honolulu that we have heard and read about now:  We love being able to take an elevator without *worrying* to walk the beach with thousands of people around swiming, surfing, and enjoying Waikiki Beach or walking down Kalakaua at night with thousands of people *safely *walking around enjoying the street performers, lilttle shows, shops, stores, restaurants, and Blue Note shows.  We love taking a bus to live theatre all over Honolulu and *safely *coming back at night.  We love walking or taking the bus to *safely *go to  Ala Moana Mall, Target, Walmart, Sam's to get groceries or to visit other shops.

That is *NOT* Honolulu now!  The elevators, the walking around at night, the buses all now present Corana Virus or Mugging danger in Honolulu.  The crowds of happy people are gone, leaving the streets mostly to the homeless and undesirables that commit crime.  There are no live shows, many of the restaurants and shops are closed.  On Long Island we can walk out of our private house to safely enjoy outside with our inground pool.  We have cars right outside to take us door to door safely to pick up food curbside so no contact with people.  We get pizza delivered once a week to our porch so no contact with people.  We get packages delivered to our porch so no contact with people.  It is safe, crime is not a threat.  

I don't know about those people you see moving out of NYC, but if they loved NYC like we loved Honolulu and NYC city has changed like Honolulu has changed I don't blame them.  They are saying to themselves; Why do I want to be HERE!


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## DannyTS (Aug 23, 2020)

Tamaradarann said:


> I agree with you on alot of points here.  This is worse than 9-11, even for NYC, we live on Long Island so we don't personally know but from what I have heard this shutdown has decimated the city as we know it.  From an business and economic point of view the Governor has done more harm than good, however, from a life saving point of view the Governor gets straight A's.
> 
> The same things could be said about Hawaii and Governor Ige in Hawaii evern though the numbers there have recently gone up.  If the usual mass of tourists had been coming to Hawaii since March who know how many cases thee would have been and people would have died!
> 
> ...


NYC has the second highest rate of deaths per million in the nation. I am not getting the part with straight A's.

@CPNI I read the moving companies have doubled the volume compared to last year


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## CPNY (Aug 23, 2020)

DannyTS said:


> NYC has the second highest rate of deaths per million in the nation. I am not getting the part with straight A's.
> 
> @CPNI I read the moving companies have doubled the volume compared to last year


Yeah the moving companies are very busy. It’s scary to think of what the future of nyc will be. The crime in the city is skyrocketing. Cuomo and Deblasio have a lot of work on their hands. Let’s see what they are truly made of. It’s going to be bad!


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## Country Roads (Aug 23, 2020)

DannyTS said:


> NYC has the second highest rate of deaths per million in the nation. I am not getting the part with straight A's.
> 
> @CPNI I read the moving companies have doubled the volume compared to last year



For those interested, New York City rents slide as vacancies hit a new record.


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## CPNY (Aug 23, 2020)

Tamaradarann said:


> I agree with you on alot of points here.  This is worse than 9-11, even for NYC, we live on Long Island so we don't personally know but from what I have heard this shutdown has decimated the city as we know it.  From an business and economic point of view the Governor has done more harm than good, however, from a life saving point of view the Governor gets straight A's.
> 
> The same things could be said about Hawaii and Governor Ige in Hawaii evern though the numbers there have recently gone up.  If the usual mass of tourists had been coming to Hawaii since March who know how many cases thee would have been and people would have died!
> 
> ...


I forgot to mention the crime spike in nyc. It’s through the roof


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## Tamaradarann (Aug 23, 2020)

DannyTS said:


> NYC has the second highest rate of deaths per million in the nation. I am not getting the part with straight A's.
> 
> @CPNI I read the moving companies have doubled the volume compared to last year



A few months ago it had not only had the HIGHEST death rate in the country, it had more deaths than the rest of the country put together.  IT WAS THE CENTER OF THE CORONAVIRUS in the US.  However, through strick social distancing restrictions and wearing masks we now have one of the lowest amount of new cases and deaths in the country.  It has been an amazing reversal which NY is proud of any many other states which they could emulate.


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## Tamaradarann (Aug 23, 2020)

CPNY said:


> I forgot to mention the crime spike in nyc. It’s through the roof





CPNY said:


> I forgot to mention the crime spike in nyc. It’s through the roof



You didn't have to mention it for my edification.  We hear NYC news here all the time.  As in Honolulu the tourists are gone.  There is nothing to do in the city so the residents either don't go out or go out just to get food.  The streets are being taken over by the homeless and criminals.


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## DannyTS (Aug 23, 2020)

Tamaradarann said:


> You didn't have to mention it for my edification.  We hear NYC news here all the time.  As in Honolulu the tourists are gone.  There is nothing to do in the city so the residents either don't go out or go out just to get food.  The streets are being taken over by the homeless and criminals.


I understand your point of view but if you give NY a straight A I am wondering  how one would grade the states that have 3 or 4 times less deaths per million.


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## Tamaradarann (Aug 23, 2020)

CPNY said:


> Yeah the moving companies are very busy. It’s scary to think of what the future of nyc will be. The crime in the city is skyrocketing. Cuomo and Deblasio have a lot of work on their hands. Let’s see what they are truly made of. It’s going to be bad!



Yes they do.  So do Governor Ige of Hawaii and Mayor Caldwell of Honolulu.  However, I believe both of them are term limited this year so new people will have to deal with it starting in January.  Every Govermor and Mayor of major cities will have alot to deal with and limited funds to do it with.  That is why it is essential they get some type of relief from the Federal Government.  Otherwise they will either not have the money to do what is necessary or will need to raise taxes exorbitantly.  

We felt the same way as those using the moving companies, however, we didn't need a moving company just a direct flight from Honolulu to JFK in March.  We had the foresight to see it coming and as I often say "Got out of Dodge".


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## Tamaradarann (Aug 23, 2020)

Tamaradarann said:


> Yes they do.  So do Governor Ige of Hawaii and Mayor Caldwell of Honolulu.  However, I believe both of them are term limited this year so new people will have to deal with it starting in January.  Every Govermor and Mayor of major cities will have alot to deal with and limited funds to do it with.  That is why it is essential they get some type of relief from the Federal Government.  Otherwise they will either not have the money to do what is necessary or will need to raise taxes exorbitantly.
> 
> We felt the same way as those using the moving companies, however, we didn't need a moving company just a direct flight from Honolulu to JFK in March.  We had the foresight to see it coming and as I often say "Got out of Dodge".


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## MOXJO7282 (Aug 23, 2020)

DannyTS said:


> I understand your point of view but if you give NY a straight A I am wondering  how one would grade the states that have 3 or 4 times less deaths per million.


You really can't compare rural areas to urban areas. If you remove NYC deaths out of NY's numbers it's among the best outcomes. Unfortunately NYC was hit with the virus before they even knew it existed and it spread like wildfire but since the initial death toll it's been well managed. The nursing home scandal is something history will judge if Cuomo handled that ineptly [political comment removed]


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## lynne (Aug 23, 2020)

Tamaradarann said:
Yes they do. So do Governor Ige of Hawaii and Mayor Caldwell of Honolulu. However, I believe both of them are term limited this year so new people will have to deal with it starting in January. Every Govermor and Mayor of major cities will have alot to deal with and limited funds to do it with. That is why it is essential they get some type of relief from the Federal Government. Otherwise they will either not have the money to do what is necessary or will need to raise taxes exorbitantly.

We felt the same way as those using the moving companies, however, we didn't need a moving company just a direct flight from Honolulu to JFK in March. We had the foresight to see it coming and as I often say "Got out of Dodge".


There will be a new Honolulu major, but Gov. Ige's term does not end until December 2022.


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## TheTimeTraveler (Aug 23, 2020)

Tamaradarann said:


> You didn't have to mention it for my edification.  We hear NYC news here all the time.  As in Honolulu the tourists are gone.  There is nothing to do in the city so the residents either don't go out or go out just to get food.  The streets are being taken over by the homeless and criminals.





Assuming the Mayor is doing his job, dealing with criminals isn't rocket science.  Arrest them, lock them up, and follow the due process of law.

Dealing with the homeless is another issue entirely, & it has been a Honolulu eyesore and problem for at least 15 years.  This is the toughest issue Honolulu has to deal with, and unless and until you provide jobs or institutionalization then you have, and will continue to have serious issues that no one seems able or willing to deal with.  Hence, the homeless set up tents all over the city parks and live in paradise compliments of the taxpayers.  The word is out there and more join in every year creating a long, slow spiral downhill.

This is one reason I won't go to Honolulu when I visit Hawaii.



.


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## Tamaradarann (Aug 23, 2020)

DannyTS said:


> I understand your point of view but if you give NY a straight A I am wondering  how one would grade the states that have 3 or 4 times less deaths per million.



The states that have 3 or 4 times less deaths per million never had the vast amount of virus spread that New York had to begin with.  They might not have had to do anything special.  It is really easy to go from Good to Very Good.  It is really hard to go from Horrible to Good.


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## Tamaradarann (Aug 23, 2020)

TheTimeTraveler said:


> Assuming the Mayor is doing his job, dealing with criminals isn't rocket science.  Arrest them, lock them up, and follow the due process of law.
> 
> Dealing with the homeless is another issue entirely, & it has been a Honolulu eyesore and problem for at least 15 years.  This is the toughest issue Honolulu has to deal with, and unless and until you provide jobs or institutionalization then you have, and will continue to have serious issues that no one seems able or willing to deal with.  Hence, the homeless set up tents all over the city parks and live in paradise compliments of the taxpayers.  The word is out there and more join in every year creating a long, slow spiral downhill.
> 
> ...



I wish that what you are saying about dealing with criminals was that easy as you say, and so does every police officer in the country.  

Usually the homeless problem, while at times can be annoying, doesn't bother us.  While we never give them money we have given them clothing and food as well as encouragement.  We have talked to a number of the homeless and have had 4 sucesses with getting them off the street and in good jobs, two women and two men.  When we were in Hilo about 5 years ago we had lunch with one of the women and she actually insisted on paying for all of our lunches.  

However, now I understand the problem has gotten worse and the homeless can't shelter at home.  

As I said we love Honolulu as we knew it, right now we wouldn't go there either.


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## Tamaradarann (Aug 23, 2020)

MOXJO7282 said:


> You really can't compare rural areas to urban areas. If you remove NYC deaths out of NY's numbers it's among the best outcomes. Unfortunately NYC was hit with the virus before they even knew it existed and it spread like wildfire but since the initial death toll it's been well managed. The nursing home scandal is something history will judge if Cuomo handled that ineptly



I agree with what you are saying about New York City.  However, Nassau and Suffolk County which have combined about 3 million people were also in the same boat as NYC. 

The Nursing Home Scandal was horrible.  I don't know all the details of it but I guess when they sent coronavirus patients home to shelter and quaratine they neglected to think about the fact that Nursing Homes were their home.  They should have been sent to another isolated location.


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## CPNY (Aug 23, 2020)

MOXJO7282 said:


> You really can't compare rural areas to urban areas. If you remove NYC deaths out of NY's numbers it's among the best outcomes. Unfortunately NYC was hit with the virus before they even knew it existed and it spread like wildfire but since the initial death toll it's been well managed. The nursing home scandal is something history will judge if Cuomo handled that ineptly [political comment removed]


Well they knew it existed, they just told everyone to “go to the movies”. Our health commissioner told everyone in early March to make sure they head to the Parade because she would surely be there. They weren’t looking ahead or looking at the present at the time. They themselves didn’t take it seriously in early March. Private companies took it upon themselves to shut down before the state guidance.


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## TheTimeTraveler (Aug 23, 2020)

Tamaradarann said:


> I wish that what you are saying about dealing with criminals was that easy as you say, and so does every police officer in the country.
> 
> Usually the homeless problem, while at times can be annoying, doesn't bother us.  While we never give them money we have given them clothing and food as well as encouragement.  We have talked to a number of the homeless and have had 4 sucesses with getting them off the street and in good jobs, two women and two men.  When we were in Hilo about 5 years ago we had lunch with one of the women and she actually insisted on paying for all of our lunches.
> 
> ...





One thing I question is how will the new Honolulu Rail System affect the homeless issue when it finally opens in 2025....?   Will more homeless come into the city from East Kapolei now that there will be a direct rail link?   Will the rail system allow the homeless to leave Honolulu and escape to the suburbs instead?   I don't think anyone knows for sure what the evolution of elevated rapid transit will do to the city in the long run (other than the hope to get the excessive cars off the roads).

I believe this high speed transit system has been under construction since 2011, and is due to be finished by 2025 or 2026 if the politics and money allow it to be completed.



.


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## tugcccsp (Aug 23, 2020)

My guess is that the resort or hotel will be required to install a fence on the resort or hotel property blocking off access to the beach or public walks next to the beach.  There may be a requirement to have indoor space of sufficient size to receive and care for people that become positive with COVID-19.  I think the hotels with convention/seminar space would be more suited for this.  I guess the wrist bands may remove the need for the fence.


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## JIMinNC (Aug 24, 2020)

tugcccsp said:


> My guess is that the resort or hotel will be required to install a fence on the resort or hotel property blocking off access to the beach or public walks next to the beach.  There may be a requirement to have indoor space of sufficient size to receive and care for people that become positive with COVID-19.  I think the hotels with convention/seminar space would be more suited for this.  I guess the wrist bands may remove the need for the fence.



I saw something in another thread that had the text of the order that supposedly would allow the bubble concept. As I read it, each resort that chooses to do a bubble would be able to allow their quarantining bubble guests to use the beach in front of the resort as long as they blocked access to that section for those outside of the bubble.


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## controller1 (Aug 24, 2020)

JIMinNC said:


> I saw something in another thread that had the text of the order that supposedly would allow the bubble concept. As I read it, each resort that chooses to do a bubble would be able to allow their quarantining bubble guests to use the beach in front of the resort as long as they blocked access to that section for those outside of the bubble.



A property would need a small police force to accomplish this.


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## hapstersmom (Oct 18, 2020)

I'm just responding to the negative HNL chatter in this thread. I live/d there, FT since 1995. In town, high rise, near the University. Yes, crime has risen here, but it was rising BEFORE the pandemic. It is still far safer than many other cities. 

The pandemic has done a number on our economy.  Yet, despite this (and my H and son are employed in the restaurant industry) for some of us it has been pleasant to not have the throngs of tourists, leaving us to enjoy things ourselves. That is, when it has been possible. We've spent more time locked down on Oahu than not. 

I fear the influx of tourists from places that do not respect mask-wearing, as the entire state has a mask in public mandate. Even still, as they just opened inter-island again, we are going to WORKV Nov 15-22 on a trade. We traded for a BI island resort via RCI in July, when only II travel was possible and without COVID testing. This time, we must do the same testing as those of you coming from the mainland. We also have the same fears that any individual mayor can shut their county down and disrupt travel plans if they see their own county's case numbers rise. 

It's still a wonderful place to live, even with a bad economy, even with masks, even with increases in crime, and even with the highest unemployment in eons. It's Hawaii. People are not walking around with guns ready to shoot their neighbor over a political protest.   Aloha to all. Enjoy your trip here, if you get to come.


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