# Vip  status



## stugy (Jul 16, 2017)

what does it require to attain vip status.........l'm curious
Pat


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## Sandy VDH (Jul 16, 2017)

purchasing point directly from Wyndham.  Resale points don't count toward VIP


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## bestpal38 (Jul 16, 2017)

stugy said:


> what does it require to attain vip status.........l'm curious
> Pat


450,000 points is silver....700,000 points is gold......1,000,000 points is Platinum. I am grandfathered gold at 500,000, but oh boy do they try hard to sell me 200,000 more points....LOL


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## 55plus (Jul 16, 2017)

Sandy VDH said:


> purchasing point directly from Wyndham.  Resale points don't count toward VIP


Or, buy someone's VIP ownership with terms (a contract) that they stay on as an 'owner' that gives you full control, ownership ad releases the original 'owner' from any liability. Add your name to the deeds or trust. You'll need a quit claim deed adding you to the deed if it's deeded and process it through Wyndham. Also have a quit claim deed prepared to remove the original 'owner' for when it's time to leave the program (sell). You may have to pay a little more to the owner to do it this way, but it may be worth it to all involved.


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## ronparise (Jul 16, 2017)

PIC weeks count toward VIP. You have to buy 50,000 points to PIC one week and a 3 bedroom week gives 254000 points

So about $20000 for 105000 points plus the two weeks gives 600,000 points (Silver)  Spend $40000 and become Gold. Platinum would require a 500000 point purchase and cost $80000 to $100000

Assuming you have that kind of money to put into a second home, Does it make sense to do it under the new rules?


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## ronparise (Jul 16, 2017)

55plus said:


> Or, buy someone's VIP ownership with terms (a contract) that they stay on as an 'owner' that gives you full control, ownership ad releases the original 'owner' from any liability. Add your name to the deeds or trust. You'll need a quit claim deed adding you to the deed if it's deeded and process it through Wyndham. Also have a quit claim deed prepared to remove the original 'owner' for when it's time to leave the program (sell). You may have to pay a little more to the owner to do it this way, but it may be worth it to all involved.




I know guys that have done this and others that have "leased" an account from an owner.  I made someone Platinum doing this once. They paid my maintenance fees plus a little to make it worthwhile for me, and just took over my account

But Ill ask thge same question I asked in another post...Dose it make financial sense to pay anything for a VIP ownership when points are available on the secondary market for almost nothing?


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## 55plus (Jul 16, 2017)

ronparise said:


> Dose it make financial sense to pay anything for a VIP ownership when points are available on the secondary market for almost nothing?


I believe it is if you maximize the benefits. Five to ten thousand dollars is much better than over one hundred thousand dollars.


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## bnoble (Jul 16, 2017)

stugy said:


> what does it require to attain vip status.........l'm curious


Giving Wyndham way more money than you should.


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## ronparise (Jul 16, 2017)

55plus said:


> I believe it is if you maximize the benefits. Five to ten thousand dollars is much better than over one hundred thousand dollars.



The comparison is with non VIP points, not with VIP from Wyndham. 

I don't know what you mean by maximizing benefits. Without cancel and rebook the benefits are not much

Further, you  assume is that you can convince a VIP owner to jump through the hoops to make you a VIP for no more money than what points are available for on the secondary market without VIP benefits

The guy that is willing to jump through those  hoops knows what he has and knows what it's worth (to you)  He's gonna want more than 5-10k. That's what points are going for in eBay

By the way there was a guy selling a VIP account on eBay recently. I don't know the technique he used but he got over $25,000.  That's the number I'd use and given the new rules, I have trouble justifying even that much


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## Nomad34 (Jul 16, 2017)

bestpal38 said:


> 450,000 points is silver....700,000 points is gold......1,000,000 points is Platinum. I am grandfathered gold at 500,000, but oh boy do they try hard to sell me 200,000 more points....LOL


400,000 is silver. I was good at 500,000 grandfathered in until deeds removed from trust left me 402,000. I believe gold is 750,000. I know how hard they try to take those deeds from me but I am happy they haven't. Some have used resales and become gold with points but I am hoping for a new club to honor ones who have stuck it out.


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## Nomad34 (Jul 16, 2017)

55plus said:


> Or, buy someone's VIP ownership with terms (a contract) that they stay on as an 'owner' that gives you full control, ownership ad releases the original 'owner' from any liability. Add your name to the deeds or trust. You'll need a quit claim deed adding you to the deed if it's deeded and process it through Wyndham. Also have a quit claim deed prepared to remove the original 'owner' for when it's time to leave the program (sell). You may have to pay a little more to the owner to do it this way, but it may be worth it to all involved.


This sounds interesting as it may help my situation as I would like to give any profit to a charity dealing with mental illness in Headland, AL.


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## Nomad34 (Jul 16, 2017)

My deeds are listed on Buy a Timeshare for $25000.package. This could relieve me of the $3000, on my Discover Card and help make sure of clear titles hopefully.  I know all have told me this would be dreaming but God told the director she was dreaming to have 25 acres of land with a gazebo, five cabins and a college for training new mental health counselors but it is happening. I may have to give CLA trust the ROFR on this.


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## bestpal38 (Jul 16, 2017)

Nomad34 said:


> 400,000 is silver. I was good at 500,000 grandfathered in until deeds removed from trust left me 402,000. I believe gold is 750,000. I know how hard they try to take those deeds from me but I am happy they haven't. Some have used resales and become gold with points but I am hoping for a new club to honor ones who have stuck it out.


My apologies, I thought they raised silver to 450,000. Pretty sure Gold is 700,000. They try very hard to get me to buy 200,000 points at every owner update.


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## Nomad34 (Jul 16, 2017)

They just offer me CWA as my only way to reduce my MF.  The last was pay $13,500 for 84,000 keep my deeds but pay $235 for each week of vacation rather than the $215/month I was paying plus interest on their loans to me. They really think we must have Alzheimer's. Their fast talk can confuse us so I take my daughter with me as a witness. 


bestpal38 said:


> My apologies, I thought they raised silver to 450,000. Pretty sure Gold is 700,000. They try very hard to get me to buy 200,000 points at every owner update.


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## Nomad34 (Jul 16, 2017)

Nomad34 said:


> They just offer me CWA as my only way to reduce my MF.  The last was pay $13,500 for 84,000 keep my deeds but pay $235 for each week of vacation rather than the $215/month I was paying plus interest on their loans to me. They really think we must have Alzheimer's. Their fast talk can confuse us so I take my daughter with me as a witness.


When I was gold at 577,000 they sold me the great Smokies Lodge for 105,000 total 672,000 plus temp platinum which had been 750000 but that broke my gold trust plus turned all my grandchildren from discussing my trust ownership. On fixed income, MF fees equal my tithe to my God so it must be used to help charity.


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## bestpal38 (Jul 16, 2017)

Nomad34 said:


> They just offer me CWA as my only way to reduce my MF.  The last was pay $13,500 for 84,000 keep my deeds but pay $235 for each week of vacation rather than the $215/month I was paying plus interest on their loans to me. They really think we must have Alzheimer's. Their fast talk can confuse us so I take my daughter with me as a witness.


They are constantly pushing Extra Holidays to me, but as I have stated in the past, they overstate the earnings potential. Last sales weasel was fast talking, and used a different dollar figure for how much I could make on EH, everytime he opened his mouth. I called him out on it, declined his offer, and he told me I was stupid. I really do not have much respect for a company that basically encourages lying, and belittling people, as a way to make money.


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## Nomad34 (Jul 16, 2017)

The new book from Wyndham doesn't mention VIP at all only Select.


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## Nomad34 (Jul 16, 2017)

It is interesting too that the new book says that fair share vacation owners trust is club Wyndham plus. I don't believe that is true now. Please correct me if I am wrong.


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## paxsarah (Jul 16, 2017)

55plus said:


> I believe it is if you maximize the benefits. Five to ten thousand dollars is much better than over one hundred thousand dollars.



The problem right now is that (a) I don't think anyone is capable of maximizing the benefits today because of all the website problems, and (b) once that's all straightened out, we don't know yet exactly how the benefits will work in practice and how much they will resemble the previous functioning of the benefits. If you can't put a dollar value on the benefits of VIP, how can you know if it's worth it? It could be many months before we're really able to quantify it.


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## Nomad34 (Jul 16, 2017)

They just offer me CWA as my only way to reduce my MF lol. The last was pay $13,500 for 84,000 keep my deeds but pay $235 for each week of vacation rather than the $215 I was paying


bestpal38 said:


> My apologies, I thought they raised silver to 450,000. Pretty sure Gold is 700,000. They try very hard to get me to buy 200,000 points at every owner update.


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## cayman01 (Jul 17, 2017)

ronparise said:


> The comparison is with non VIP points, not with VIP from Wyndham.
> 
> I don't know what you mean by maximizing benefits. Without cancel and rebook the benefits are not much
> 
> ...



If you can buy it for $30k online resale it would be worth it.

Let's say that gets you a million points and we will use $6/1000 pts for maintenance. To duplicate Platinum VIP without the actual status you need 2 million points and therefore double the maintenance fees. You're looking at $12k a year in maintenance vs. $6k. So buying that VIP resale, if it sticks, pays for itself in five years.

Now, buying it from Wyndham is another story. For argument's sake let's say I walked into Wyndham and said I will pay $125k to you right now for 1 million points. Safe to say they would take my money? Let's say they do. Now you are looking at over twenty years for payback. Even if you bought Shearwater from them at $4/1000 MF it is still going to take you 15 years to break even. That's one you have to really think about.

Then again you have to ask if  He benefits received are worth the money spent, and to be fair,nobody can say for sure at this point because the system is so cluster f$&@(d right now. Cancel/Rebook has been dealt a blow by Corporate and that was the largest benefit used by VIP owners. But because the website is so messed up at this point we really do not know how much C/R has been effected. Remains to be seen.

 To me, it would almost be worth it just to have the unlimited housekeeping and Reservation Transactions as we like to do a lot of short stays. Discounts would be nice, but C/R really wouldn't be a part of my repertoire. To each his own.


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## Nomad34 (Jul 17, 2017)

cayman01 said:


> If you can buy it for $30k online resale it would be worth it.
> 
> Let's say that gets you a million points and we will use $6/1000 pts for maintenance. To duplicate Platinum VIP without the actual status you need 2 million points and therefore double the maintenance fees. You're looking at $12k a year in maintenance vs. $6k. So buying that VIP resale, if it sticks, pays for itself in five years.
> 
> ...


Thank you for your looking at this the way my trustees did when I promoted the latest spiel to them. The argument was always was how many MFs to recoup their sales pitch. The sales pitch was always "over 10 years you will pay thousands in MF fees"so you better buy this. How smart they were to leave me holding the bag for my last bite.$17000 added $80 MFs per month.


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## bnoble (Jul 17, 2017)

cayman01 said:


> To duplicate Platinum VIP without the actual status you need 2 million points and therefore double the maintenance fees.


This assumes every single reservation will be discounted. I don't think that is realistic given the current reservation system unless you are only looking for low-demand times/resorts with plenty of 60 day availability.


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## vacationhopeful (Jul 17, 2017)

ronparise said:


> ...
> Assuming you have that kind of money to put into a second home, Does it make sense to do it under the (*WYNDHAM?*) new rules?



That is a MAJOR consideration. I built a mini-mountain vacation home when I was about 25yo. 15 year mortgage was paid off YEARS ago. My sister's husband with his 2 sisters just inherited his parents OCEAN FRONT vacation condo in Ocean City MD. I own enough fixed deeded WINTER weeks in South Florida to LIVE there from Xmas to Easter. .... which costs MORE? The 2 fully paid off vacation homes (Beachfront & Mountains) to maintain within a 3 hours of driving from MY year round residence ... or my winter timeshare MFs for the fixed weeks? Which of the 2 I own, could I sell & get MORE money for? Timeshares or Mini-Mountain home? And I will throw in for free, the fixed deeded timeshare unit which gets me year round DAY PRIVILEDGES for their gym, indoor pool and 2 outdoor pools plus ANY activities at the resort (movie activities, bingo games, etc) with MFs under $800. ($67 per month).

Trust me ... I have been toying with the idea and been downsizing my person STUFF. No, I am not going to live in an RV, roost in relatives' guest rooms or live in timeshare exchanges. I have enough places to live in ... the new place just needs to be smaller and more cost efficient.


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## cayman01 (Jul 17, 2017)

bnoble said:


> This assumes every single reservation will be discounted. I don't think that is realistic given the current reservation system unless you are only looking for low-demand times/resorts with plenty of 60 day availability.



Absolutely true. My model assumes that is absolutely going to happen. Kind of like a climate change model....


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## tschwa2 (Jul 17, 2017)

With the way things work right now I would consider 1 million platinum points to be worth about 1,250,000 regular points+ $1400 in Guest Certificates+ $500 in Transaction and HK.


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## ronparise (Jul 17, 2017)

cayman01 said:


> Absolutely true. My model assumes that is absolutely going to happen. Kind of like a climate change model....



Thats the question, isnt it?  Can we still count on discounts and upgrades on all our reservations, under the new rules. 

If you are right and the answer is yes, Id be surprised.  If Im right and the answer is no, a VIP account isnt worth squat


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## Nomad34 (Jul 17, 2017)

Very true and I'm counting on it to be right.


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## chapjim (Jul 17, 2017)

Nomad34 said:


> Very true and I'm counting on it to be right.



I can't imagine what makes you a "glass half full" person. 

I don't see any way (and from off-line conversations, neither does Ron Parise) that it will be economical to acquire VIP benefits and Presidential Reserve benefits.  The question for me and many others is, since we are already VIP/PresRes owners, is there a way to make it profitable, even if only marginally so.  I don't think there is.

Concentrating on high-demand weeks is certainly a useful strategy.  It may be possible to rent Mardi Gras, Daytona 500, Bike Week, NCAA or professional championship event weeks and make a couple bucks with no discount or upgrade.  Since it is just my wife and me on our account, the limit for reservations is two per event, unless I make reservations with other names listed as guests, knowing it will cost me $99 down the line.

Our only hope is that Wyndham never figures out how to implement the auto-upgrade feature and gives up trying.  Even then, experience with canceled reservations reappearing in inventory has not been promising so I don't see cancel/re-book/upgrade ever becoming what it was.

Personally, I'll probably try to stick it out through 2018 (since I'm already out of 2018 points) and make a decision about divesting most of my Wyndham ownership, keeping a couple million points for our own use and an occasional rental at or near cost.


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## ronparise (Jul 18, 2017)

Im taking a wait and see approach too. 

 When I started this thing it was right after the last round of anti renter rule changes.  Conventional wisdom was that it was impossible to build a rental business. and yet there were a lot of us that figured it out

I think the same thing will happen now.  Someone will figure it out.


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## Nomad34 (Jul 21, 2017)

55plus said:


> Or, buy someone's VIP ownership with terms (a contract) that they stay on as an 'owner' that gives you full control, ownership ad releases the original 'owner' from any liability. Add your name to the deeds or trust. You'll need a quit claim deed adding you to the deed if it's deeded and process it through Wyndham. Also have a quit claim deed prepared to remove the original 'owner' for when it's time to leave the program (sell). You may have to pay a little more to the owner to do it this way, but it may be worth it to all involved.


This is what I found interesting but need to know more about this. I have heard this is possible from others so I will continue to learn more.


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## JT1989 (Aug 15, 2017)

Hi Ron, I have seen your name everywhere on this forum and wanted to ask if you happen to know if I ended up having a platinum account (through developer purchases which I would join onto someone else's deeds) and then purchased resale onto that same account..will those points inherit the Platinum benefits (under the new system)?

Jenny


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## cayman01 (Aug 16, 2017)

JT1989 said:


> Hi Ron, I have seen your name everywhere on this forum and wanted to ask if you happen to know if I ended up having a platinum account (through developer purchases which I would join onto someone else's deeds) and then purchased resale onto that same account..will those points inherit the Platinum benefits (under the new system)?
> 
> Jenny


They will be treated to VIP status but will not inherit that status. So, for example, if you bought a million resale points and put it into a Platinum account they would enjoy the same benefits as the Platinum points, BUT if you sold the Platinum eligible points in the account the points you bought lose all VIP status.


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## JT1989 (Aug 16, 2017)

Thanks Cay, that is very helpful to know.


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## Nomad34 (Aug 16, 2017)

Decided to stay with my Silver status until I find out what the "trust" does this year as no one has any idea of any split taking place. Enjoying cancel and rebook for now. I am told "Ovations" is my only out but am still unwilling to take it.


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## Avislo (Aug 16, 2017)

Nomad34 said:


> Decided to stay with my Silver status until I find out what the "trust" does this year as no one has any idea of any split taking place. Enjoying cancel and rebook for now. I am told "Ovations" is my only out but am still unwilling to take it.



For those people having problems with the Cancel Re-book process, can you share how you are making it work.  Are your units that are being cancelled returning to inventory within 20 minutes or so?


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## Nomad34 (Aug 16, 2017)

I checked for two br in Sept for the three days I had scheduled but found only two days available so I cancelled the three day  lbr stay, requested auto upgrade a day early and found all complete the next day. I don't check to see when my cancellations return to inventory so I will start.


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## Avislo (Aug 16, 2017)

Thanks.


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