# [2010] Wyndham "WAAM" - program canceled!



## kimkzoo (Oct 8, 2010)

Hi,

I was just wondering if anyone else purchased into Wyndham's "WAAM" program earlier this year.

We sat in a presentation in April with many others about this "great" new program that would allow "WAAM" owners *only* to stay in certain properties (starting with Towers on the Grove) in Myrtle Beach.  Upcoming properties were to include Reunion in Orlando as well as properties in Chicago, Boston and NY.

Found another thread regarding this:  http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=119361

We found out several months after buying into this that the program had been canceled.  Wyndham customer service knew nothing about the program! Weird.

Did anyone else buy into this?  

We're wondering if we could get out of it since program was canceled and we were never given an option to get our money back.  Crappy thing is, we have nothing in writing that refers to "WAAM".


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## rickandcindy23 (Oct 8, 2010)

A little more explanation would be in order.  I am completely lost, and we are VIP Platinum, so you would think I would know what it is.


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## jjmanthei05 (Oct 8, 2010)

The WAAM model is how Wyndham acquires new property, it has nothing to do with your type of ownership. Most likely this was just "salesman speak" and had no validity to start with. Anyone in the Wyndham system can book at "towers" at 10 months out. The same will be true for Reunion when that comes online next year. The "only WAAM owners can book at WAAM properties" falls under the same type as "resales will only be able to book at their resorts and no where else". This won't work since if the rest of us can't book at those resorts then you wouldn't be able to book anywhere outside those 2 properties since there has to be an equalization of points.

As for WAAM going away, I can't see a scenario where they would stop acquiring properties for which they have to put no money up front for actual construction and still make 40% on all of the sales for that unless some of their sales people moved over to the management\aquisition side and then we are all screwed. :rofl:  

Jason


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## timeos2 (Oct 8, 2010)

*Bad 70's disco group or Wyndham rip off? You be the judge*



kimkzoo said:


> Did anyone else buy into this?
> 
> We're wondering if we could get out of it since program was canceled and we were never given an option to get our money back.  Crappy thing is, we have nothing in writing that refers to "WAM".



Never heard of WAM - sounds like another of their trumped up ideas to try to give outrageously overpriced retail Wyndham Points a value they don't have by tacking on some non-guaranteed perks. Although you paid for it? With no documentation? That's a new low even for Wyndham sales. 

Obviously if the "system" was never created or was created and disbanded you should get your money back. If it was tied to a retail points purchase you may be able to go further and cancel the whole thing. If so do it as there is never a case that paying retail for Wyndham Points makes any sense at all for a buyer today, 

WAM?  BAM? SLAM? Get out if you can. Good luck


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## Rob&Carol Q (Oct 8, 2010)

Hey now...be nice to Wham...

For those that follow links. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wham!


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## rickandcindy23 (Oct 8, 2010)

*Google search, and more printed than I could see????????*

Wyndham Vacation Ownership
Wyndham Asset Affiliation Model (WAAM)
 Innovative capital-light alternative for vacation ownership
 A turn-key solution for developers and banks
 Leverage the Wyndham’s sales and marketing distribution channels
 Transforming vacation ownership into a fee-for-service business
 A hypothetical
 One type of WAAM-structured transaction
 A $250,000 condo (sold as whole ownership) could translate into $1.2 million of VOI sales
 WVO earns approximately $700,000 ($1.2 million of VOI sales x 55 to 60% commission)
 WVO margin approximately 15%, roughly equal to the traditional VOI model, after sales and
marketing costs are paid
 WAAM transactions may be a hybrid
 Depth of opportunities
 Disciplined selection process reviewing significant number of deals
 Recently signed two deals in Myrtle Beach and Orlando, totaling 460 units Innovative capital-light alternative for vacation ownership
 A turn-key solution for developers and banks
 Leverage the Wyndham’s sales and marketing distribution channels
 Transforming vacation ownership into a fee-for-service business
 A hypothetical
 One type of WAAM-structured transaction
 A $250,000 condo (sold as whole ownership) could translate into $1.2 million of VOI sales
 WVO earns approximately $700,000 ($1.2 million of VOI sales x 55 to 60% commission)
 WVO margin approximately 15%, roughly equal to the traditional VOI model, after sales and
marketing costs are paid
 WAAM transactions may be a hybrid
 Depth of opportunities
 Disciplined selection process reviewing significant number of deals
 Recently signed two deals in Myrtle Beach and Orlando, totaling 460 units

The above link came from here: http://www.wyndhamworldwide.com/docs/SIG-WVO-Tour-11-19-09-FINAL.pdf
I could see only a bit of info, but the copy/paste produced so much more.  How weird is that?


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## massvacationer (Oct 8, 2010)

*What exactly did you buy ??*

OP:

What did you buy from Wyndham?  Was it a Discovery package?  Or was it deeded points at a particular resort?  Or was it Club Wyndahm Access Points?  What does the paperwork say?

WAAM (I think it has two "A"s) just refers to a business practice where Wyndham contracts with developers to sell timeshare units - and gets a percent of the sales.


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## mshatty (Oct 8, 2010)

WAAM appears to be a good business model for Wyndham to acquire and provide new resorts to vacationers at reduced acquisition costs.  Do Wyn owners really object to this???


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## jjmanthei05 (Oct 8, 2010)

mshatty said:


> WAAM appears to be a good business model for Wyndham to acquire and provide new resorts to vacationers at a reduced acquisition costs.  Do Wyn owners really object to this???



Just the ones that pay retail prices at these resorts!!!! :hysterical: 

Jason


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## BellaWyn (Oct 9, 2010)

*You're NOT HELPING!*



jjmanthei05 said:


> Just the ones that pay retail prices at these resorts!!!! :hysterical:


OK people, while I get the humor in this statement the overall flavor of this thread isn't helping the OP who clearly is anxious about their purchase!  :annoyed: 

*kimkzoo:* if you could please respond to Dave's (massvacationer) questions maybe we might be able to help you get some of your questions answered a little more thoroughly.  WAAM is, as Jason stated, a business model, not a program or a "system."  Towers on the Grove was the first property WYN sold following that model.  So, if you have UDI points in Towers it doesn't really matter whether or not WYN continues to follow the WAAM model or not.  You should still own points in the Wyndham system which will function as all other points function, regardless of how they were obtained.  

Give us a little more information and hopefully SOME OF US will be able to help!   :whoopie: 

-- Caite


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## vacationhopeful (Oct 9, 2010)

Welcome to TUG, kimkzoo!

Wyndham is a complex program. The resorts are nice and many with great locations; almost all resorts have friendly staff and clean TS condos. Just stay away from the Sales Department (officially called "Owner's Services" for your Owner's Update).

As for Tuggers, we are a friendly mix of Timeshare Owners with a multitude of personalities. And most of us have brought 'Developer sold' timeshares - and then we found the internet, TUG, and learned so much more for so little dollars.

Happy Vacationing!


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## jjmanthei05 (Oct 9, 2010)

BellaWyn said:


> OK people, while I get the humor in this statement the overall flavor of this thread isn't helping the OP who clearly is anxious about their purchase!  :annoyed:



Sorry for the little joke. If you are worried about your ownership give wyndham a call directly at owner services (option 3). They should be able to answer any questions you are having about your ownership. Since you own a deed which gives you a fractional ownership in a set of rooms that can't be taken away by Wyndham or anyone else. If you read the advice articles at the top of the forum it will give you a very good overview of the system as a whole and how to get best use of your purchase. 

Jason


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## kimkzoo (Oct 10, 2010)

To answer Dave's question, we did buy deeded points at Myrtle Beach Towers on the Grove.  We never would have bought here (since we already own at Ocean Blvd) but they said this was the first of the WAAM properties and we had to buy at this resort to get IN the program.  Then we could stay at these WAAM properties for discounted points and the properties were only open to people in the WAAM program.  I am so mad at myself that we didn't obtain anything in writing!  Big lesson learned.

So does anyone know exactly what happens when your timeshare(s) go into foreclosure?


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## timeos2 (Oct 10, 2010)

kimkzoo said:


> To answer Dave's question, we did buy deeded points at Myrtle Beach Towers on the Grove.  We never would have bought here (since we already own at Ocean Blvd) but they said this was the first of the WAAM properties and we had to buy at this resort to get IN the program.  Then we could stay at these WAAM properties for discounted points and the properties were only open to people in the WAAM program.  I am so mad at myself that we didn't obtain anything in writing!  Big lesson learned.
> 
> So does anyone know exactly what happens when your timeshare(s) go into foreclosure?



If the points you purchased are deeded then whatever they do with the WAAM program itself shouldn't impact you. From what I've seen the WAAM program was/is just a way to get new locations, smaller, condo buildings Wyndham has signed on to manage, into the Wyndham Point system. In theory that gives them new inventory without the capital requirements building their own cost.  I hadn't heard that they were backing out of that program - they had been touting it as a positive improvement to the points system - but even if they did you hold a deed that translates into points and that shouldn't change. 

What have you heard that makes you have questions about things going forward?


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## karentrimmer (Oct 10, 2010)

I own resale points all at Myrtle beach and all the different resorts at Myrtle Beach (own 6 contracts) excluding the new Cherry Grove.  However, I can book 13 months out at the new Cherry Grove condo's without any problem


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## mjhines (Nov 3, 2010)

*Cancellation not in the cards for WAAM*



kimkzoo said:


> To answer Dave's question, we did buy deeded points at Myrtle Beach Towers on the Grove.  We never would have bought here (since we already own at Ocean Blvd) but they said this was the first of the WAAM properties and we had to buy at this resort to get IN the program.  Then we could stay at these WAAM properties for discounted points and the properties were only open to people in the WAAM program.  I am so mad at myself that we didn't obtain anything in writing!  Big lesson learned.
> 
> So does anyone know exactly what happens when your timeshare(s) go into foreclosure?



We sat through the same presentation at Ocean Blvd this past August and remember the same information about WAAM properties: discounted points, preferential access to all WAAM properties, purchase of deeded points at a reduced rate per thousand, anticipated upcoming resorts in Orlando (Reunion, now "open"), Boston, Chicago, New York, others later on). Unlike you, we had no ownership in Myrtle Beach and wanted some, so we, like you, bought into Towers on the Grove. Like you, we have no documentation regarding the descriptions in the presentation, but if you want to spend some time being reassured (to a degree....who really knows for how long with TS companies) about WAAM, go to: www.wyndhamworldwide.com  and you can access the presentations by Wyndham CEO and CFO regarding the company's big picture. It includes a clear indication that WAAM is one of their big achievements....innovative and great for the bottom line (getting resort space without building new inventory by acquiring interest in distressed properties in places Wyndham wants a presence). From what I've read and heard, other big TS-involved companies (Sheraton, Marriott, etc) are considering how they can do the same thing now. The concern about foreclosure is really no different for WAAM properties than for any of the other Wyndham deeded properties you might own. My take is that Wyndham would be perfectly happy to acquire the property at foreclosure prices rather than have to go through the problems associated with building anyway. The word we got was that National Harbor was likely the last "new" project Wyndham will take on, at least for a long time. Maybe we'll see you at Towers or Ocean Blvd next summer?  Mike


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## JSTsTOPIT (Jan 28, 2011)

*Unbelievable!!!!*



timeos2 said:


> Never heard of WAM - sounds like another of their trumped up ideas to try to give outrageously overpriced retail Wyndham Points a value they don't have by tacking on some non-guaranteed perks. Although you paid for it? With no documentation? That's a new low even for Wyndham sales.
> 
> Obviously if the "system" was never created or was created and disbanded you should get your money back. If it was tied to a retail points purchase you may be able to go further and cancel the whole thing. If so do it as there is never a case that paying retail for Wyndham Points makes any sense at all for a buyer today,
> 
> WAM?  BAM? SLAM? Get out if you can. Good luck



 

I am so sick and tired of reading all of the negativity on these threads! 

It is amazing to read all of the rhetoric on here about how miserable you all are about your timeshares!!!!!

Please allow the number of happy owners of Wyndham Vacation Ownership speak for themselves!

Fact:  More and More owners are purchasing more with Wyndham and in record numbers!

Fact: WAAM.....It exists, It has not been cancelled, postponed, or abandoned!!!!  What you UNEDUCATED people do not realize, is there are various branches to the Wyndham Tree...We own A TON of STUFF! Each day we aquire more....Stayed in a Knight's Inn, Super 8, Howard Johnson's, Wingate, Travelodge, Wyndham Garden, TRYP, or Wingate?  If you have, you slept on some Wyndham pillows my friends!!!!  The WAAM initiative was NEVER intended just for Fairshare Plus owners...It branches out...Read the Stuff...instead of going on line and bashing what you OWN...research it, find out what Wyndham is doing FOR IT'S OWNERS...STOP INVENTING STUFF so you can look like a hero to people who have not been informed...and look like an idiot to people like me...Go on Wyndam Worldwides Homepage...in the past 2 days alone there have been some pretty important things have happened...May want to read a little is all...Just Sayin!

Fact: Smuggler's Notch in VT...yeah we have a piece of that too...THAT'S RIGHT SMUGGS....Put your seat belts on folks....It is only going to get better!

Fact: For the people on here who are trying to learn something about what they own..I will try to offer some explanation to what WAAM really is...Wyndham Asset Affiliation Model...not WAM that some lame brain on this thread likened to the 80's (not 70's!!!!!! Dummy!!!!) band which by the way DUMMY...was spelled WHAM!!!  That being said...if you take a property such as National Harbor in Washington DC, we built that from the ground up...new construction...the cost was very high over 100 million dollars...so when the economy got bad...Wyndham got smart and reached out...with our own dollars, so we would not have to rely on the banking industry (who by the way was pretty bad off) to developers and timeshare companies that closed their doors forever...so we would not have to undergo such costly new construction...We would renovate, remodel, and re-brand, to give owners both old and new more exciting and more desirable places to stay...places where we had nothing...soon we will have something...Go ahead sell yours, keep mocking what you have...publicly...it should go a long way when you try to sell it to someone for a maximum gain...everytime you post your negativity on here....you just keep making it worse on yourself...so go ahead keep rambling...and all of you that feed into all of that...you make it worse on yourselves as well...Sell it for 300 dollars on EBAY, that's all you will get for it...and then the bidder will back out at the last minute cause they will think twice about buying something that will make them as miserable as you claim you are...So go ahead and keep typing and blogging and posting away make what you own less desirable....JSTsTOPIT!!!!!!

FACT: Just wait until the new......:ignore: HAVE FUN! HAPPY VACATIONING!!!!!


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## jjmanthei05 (Jan 28, 2011)

JSTsTOPIT said:


> I am so sick and tired of reading all of the negativity on these threads!
> 
> It is amazing to read all of the rhetoric on here about how miserable you all are about your timeshares!!!!!
> 
> ...



All I have to say is thank you for all the work you are doing for me to use with my 532K points that I got for a total of $437. Keep getting those new properties for me to stay at, not having to pay the $60-$70 thousand up front for this wonderful program. If you actually read most of the post on here, many of the people love the program. They just say that VIP isn't worth the developer cost (or the points for that matter) when looking at the cost of resale and neither are the other add on programs. 

Jason


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## rrlongwell (Jan 28, 2011)

Towers on the Grove is being marketed through the sales arm and the points are used like any others.  It is not exclusive and can be booked by anyone through the reservation system.  This tread is very interesting on the pitch that WAAM is a seperate reservations system.  The sales pitch I went through in Myrtle Beach made no reference to having special reservations in something that was WAAM unique. Wyndham Vacation Resorts is trying to expand their presence in Mrytle Beach and elsewhere.  They apparently have taken over as the Management Company at Towers on the Grove and at the Sands, both in Mrytle Beach.  Towers on the Grove is being sold as part of the Wyndham Vacation Resorts system.  The Sands, when I went through the Sales Pitch was being thrown in as a 2nd purchase that went with the Towers on the Grove property.  Part of the package was to Pick In the Sands Unit (Wyndham took over as the Management Company but apparently has not put the property into its reservation system).


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## JimMIA (Jan 29, 2011)

JSTsTOPIT said:


> I am so sick and tired of reading all of the negativity on these threads!
> 
> It is amazing to read all of the rhetoric on here about how miserable you all are about your timeshares!!!!!
> 
> ...


Newbie question...*if y'all are so smart, why can't you process a simple ownership transfer and get the new owner up and running with their Wyndham and RCI accounts?*


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## jjmanthei05 (Jan 30, 2011)

JimMIA said:


> Newbie question...*if y'all are so smart, why can't you process a simple ownership transfer and get the new owner up and running with their Wyndham and RCI accounts?*



...Because you didn't pay THEM thousands of dollars! :rofl: 

Jason


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## JimMIA (Jan 30, 2011)

jjmanthei05 said:


> ...Because you didn't pay THEM thousands of dollars! :rofl:
> 
> Jason


I know, I know!  It was just a rhetorical question.


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## Cheryl20772 (Jan 30, 2011)

JSTsTOPIT said:


> Wyndham got smart and reached out...with our own dollars, so we would not have to rely on the banking industry (who by the way was pretty bad off) to developers and timeshare companies that closed their doors forever...so we would not have to undergo such costly new construction...We would renovate, remodel, and re-brand, to give owners both old and new more exciting and more desirable places to stay...places where we had nothing...soon we will have something...



The core of OP's problem here is that Wyndham sales reps lied to them about the program.  How does it help all your wonderful development when it's represented by liars?  More than one poster here has stated that WAAM was misrepresented to them by sales.  Your reply explains WAAM, but does nothing to explain OP's problem.  It doesn't matter how great the product is, if the sales reps lie to get a sale, isn't that fraud?  

Truth is, Wyndham does have a great product.  Why can't they sell it fairly?  Wyndham begins the resale devaluation on the sales room floor.


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## rrlongwell (Feb 2, 2011)

WARNING:  For people being offered the Towers on the Grove plus a unit at Sands in North Myrtle Beach/Myrtle Beach.  The Towers on the Grove portion goes through normally, Wyndam then collects the program fees for the Sands.  Now here is the catch:  The Sand's will not reconize Wyndham's right to sell the unit in their complex.  They sold it to someone else.  I have been paying and have to continue to pay the program fee for the Sands unit and do not get use of the units or associated points.


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## rrlongwell (Feb 2, 2011)

A partial quote from above:  We sat in a presentation in April with many others about this "great" new program that would allow "WAAM" owners *only* to stay in certain properties (starting with Towers on the Grove) in Myrtle Beach.  Upcoming properties were to include Reunion in Orlando as well as properties in Chicago, Boston and NY.  ... We found out several months after buying into this that the program had been canceled.  ... 

I do not know if the following is related or not.  As of Today, a Wyndham Office at 17th Street and 2nd Street in North Myrtle Beach that identifies themselves the "Corporate Center".  They say they are one of three such centers.  They advise their product is to Wyndham Owners of deed based timeshares.  They said a Wyndham Trust was set up recently that is trying to take over the deed based properties from the owners of the units.  They said this is only occurring through the "Coorporate Centers".  I do not know a whole lot more about what the new Wyndham Trust is or what there goals are.  I guess it is not impossable that Towers on the Grove and the other units you mentioned might form a new basis for availablity of units to support a program such as you described.  They did not indicate that this was happening.

Update of above:  Just found this on a different page.  The Wyndham Trust they are referring to may be their Acess program.

 BocaBum99  
Super Moderator
TS4MS Master - 3000+ Posts!   Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Hawaii Kai and Boca Raton
Posts: 5,777 
TS4MS Points: 657,696  

Wyndham's program is already the most complex one on the planet by an order of magnitude. This new program is just going to make it worse.
Wyndham is clearly trying to further differentiate developer sales vs. resales. But, it also could be doing something else. If they are smart, they will use it the right way to help prop up the value of resales by giving them ROFR.

Also, my guess is that they are trying to create a timeshare trust where they can buy back and insert inventory allowing them to create a common maintenance fee structure to make it easier to sell.

If this did this, they could create a price floor with ROFR in the new Club and let the older stuff just stay where it is as worthless. They can buy back the cheap, high quality inventory and put it into the new Club making it even more attractive. Based on the Brian's description, this is how I read it.


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## rrlongwell (Mar 19, 2011)

A new thread on the WAAM program in Myrtle Beech was started today.


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