# $20 tip enough for housekeeping? [Poll Added.]



## rgrisard

We are checking out of a 3br surfwatch today.   I usually leave $20 tip for housekeeping for my one weeks stay at any timeshare.   Is that enough?


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## jimf41

That's more than I usually leave.


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## Beaglemom3

We usually tip $2-3 per person, per day. 

It depends if the service was good, but that's our standard and I think the industry hotel standard from what I've read. Hotel standard, that is, daily service, may/may not be applicable here.

I try to always treat service people who have provided a good service, consideration.

YMMV.

ETA: This was discussed here in 2011:  http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=150620





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## SueDonJ

I think a per-day/per-guest tip is good for hotel and other stays where you get daily housekeeping but you don't get it at SW (and the other US Marriott timeshares) unless you request it.  We leave $20, too, after a stay in a SW 3BR unit.  But we leave it pretty clean as well, with all the beds stripped and all the towels left in the master br shower, the dishwasher running, all the trash out of the unit and all the furniture back in place (except the pullout couch - we leave it open if it's been used.)

Have a safe trip home, rgrisard.  We'll be in our 3BR SW unit until Friday.


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## presley

I think that is a generous tip considering I never hear boo from housekeeping at the Marriott timeshares.  I tend to leave more for places that have more service during the week.


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## Big Matt

I think it depends on how you leave it.  If you've cleaned up and the kitchen and floors aren't messy then $20 should be fine.  If they have to clean out the fridge, do the dishes, scour the bathrooms, then maybe $30 or $40.


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## Pat H

Did you get housekeeping during the week? If not, why would you leave a tip?
They didn't do anything for you.


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## MabelP

We leave $20 for a two bedroom left in great shape!


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## jimf41

Tips have gone out of control in the US. I much prefer the European system where a tip is not expected and if you leave one it's merely a few coins. In Europe they pay their restaurant and hotel employees a living wage. That's probably one reason hotels are so expensive in Europe. In the US we have minimum wage laws. In my state, New York, that rate will be $9.00 per hour as of 2016 except if you work for a restaurant, hotel or resort. Then it's $5.65 if you work in food service or $4.90 if you work in housekeeping. But the employer has to make sure that you earn at least $9.00 an hour in wages and tips.

So in reality when you tip you are actually subsidizing the employers wage expense and the employee is not getting a tip but just being paid the NY minimum wage. It's a crazy system and should be ended and the minimum wage should be the same for everybody. That way if you leave a tip it would truly be a plus for the employees income.

And then we have the issue of reporting all that tip income so taxes can be paid on it just like my social security is taxed. But that's a rant for another day, maybe.


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## csxjohn

jimf41 said:


> Tips have gone out of control in the US. I much prefer the European system where a tip is not expected and if you leave one it's merely a few coins. In Europe they pay their restaurant and hotel employees a living wage. That's probably one reason hotels are so expensive in Europe. In the US we have minimum wage laws. In my state, New York, that rate will be $9.00 per hour as of 2016 except if you work for a restaurant, hotel or resort. Then it's $5.65 if you work in food service or $4.90 if you work in housekeeping. But the employer has to make sure that you earn at least $9.00 an hour in wages and tips.
> 
> So in reality when you tip you are actually subsidizing the employers wage expense and the employee is not getting a tip but just being paid the NY minimum wage. It's a crazy system and should be ended and the minimum wage should be the same for everybody. That way if you leave a tip it would truly be a plus for the employees income.
> 
> And then we have the issue of reporting all that tip income so taxes can be paid on it just like my social security is taxed. But that's a rant for another day, maybe.



Many places farm out their housekeeping to sub contractors and I know of cases where they get paid on a per clean basis and often below minimum wage when you calculate how long it takes them to clean.

We are not in Europe and many workers here don't make a living wage.  I usually leave $20 for a 2br unit if I found it in a clean condition when I check in.  What they did for me was make sure my unit was cleaned properly for my vaca.  Sure, that's what I'm paying MFs for but I can afford to help them out.

My resort has daily touch up service and when I let them in I give them $5 for their effort.  I always get a full cleanup the next time they come in.


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## Pompey Family

jimf41 said:


> Tips have gone out of control in the US. I much prefer the European system where a tip is not expected and if you leave one it's merely a few coins. In Europe they pay their restaurant and hotel employees a living wage. That's probably one reason hotels are so expensive in Europe. In the US we have minimum wage laws. In my state, New York, that rate will be $9.00 per hour as of 2016 except if you work for a restaurant, hotel or resort. Then it's $5.65 if you work in food service or $4.90 if you work in housekeeping. But the employer has to make sure that you earn at least $9.00 an hour in wages and tips.
> 
> So in reality when you tip you are actually subsidizing the employers wage expense and the employee is not getting a tip but just being paid the NY minimum wage. It's a crazy system and should be ended and the minimum wage should be the same for everybody. That way if you leave a tip it would truly be a plus for the employees income.
> 
> As for suggesting that hotels are expensive in Europe because of the employee wages I disagree. The hotels in the US are not significantly cheaper, most of the major city ones are on a par pricewise with their European counterparts. The problem results from an expectation that tips will always be forthcoming (and generous) and therefore that absolves the employer from paying a sufficient wage despite making generous profits. Personally it stinks and I would like to express my disagreement with it all by not leaving a tip but unfortunately that would only hurt those that are forced to subsist on them.
> 
> And then we have the issue of reporting all that tip income so taxes can be paid on it just like my social security is taxed. But that's a rant for another day, maybe.



I agree, the whole tipping situation is a nightmare when we travel to the States. How much is expected? Are you going to offend someone by leaving too little or do you end up raising the bar by leaving too much?

I was particularly pissed off by a recent meal in San Francisco where part of the bill consisted of 3% employee health insurance contributions! Why am I expected to fund that?

I upset a cabbie at the airport by leaving him the change from the fare, 90 cents or thereabouts but from my point of view why does he deserve a tip? I got into his car, he drove me to where I wanted and I got out, I had no luggage, he remained in his seat the entire time. The fare was, in my view slightly excessive, so he was sufficiently remunerated and there was absolutely no justification for a tip other than "that's what usually happens". I never tip a taxi driver in Europe and neither do they expect it, why should it be different in the US?


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## jeepie

Pompey Family said:


> I upset a cabbie at the airport by leaving him the change from the fare, 90 cents or thereabouts but from my point of view why does he deserve a tip? I got into his car, he drove me to where I wanted and I got out, I had no luggage, he remained in his seat the entire time. The fare was, in my view slightly excessive, so he was sufficiently remunerated and there was absolutely no justification for a tip other than "that's what usually happens". I never tip a taxi driver in Europe and neither do they expect it, why should it be different in the US?


It shouldn't...watch as Uber, Lyft, etc., upset the entrenched taxi systems...tip is included too. Cheers.


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## 1950bing

$20 is half a tank of gas!!!!!!!!


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## nakyak

My rule is if you have to ask if you are leaving enough you probably aren't.


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## Pompey Family

nakyak1504 said:


> My rule is if you have to ask if you are leaving enough you probably aren't.



Look at it from a tourist point of view. Is $2 for the porter delivering your luggage to your room an insult or is $5 the going rate?

Do you tip housekeeping who deliver extra laundry bags as requested because the previous cleaner hadn't replaced them?

Do you tip the girl at the bar who poured you a drink and nothing more?

Tipping should be based on acknowledgement of good service not simply doing your job.


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## VacationForever

Pompey Family said:


> Look at it from a tourist point of view. Is $2 for the porter delivering your luggage to your room an insult or is $5 the going rate?
> 
> Do you tip housekeeping who deliver extra laundry bags as requested because the previous cleaner hadn't replaced them?
> 
> Do you tip the girl at the bar who poured you a drink and nothing more?
> 
> Tipping should be based on acknowledgement of good service not simply doing your job.



It is $2 per piece of luggage.  So if you have 5 pieces, it's $10.

It is customary to tip whoever comes up to your room to get you extra pillows, laundry bags etc.

Yes, you tip the girl at the bar.  Not sure what you meant by "nothing more".  

Yes, tipping should be based on acknowledgment of good service but it becomes a standard now.  We tip at least 20% at restaurants because they don't make much.  Unless service is really bad, we tip regardless.


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## jimf41

sptung said:


> Yes, tipping should be based on acknowledgment of good service but it becomes a standard now.  We tip at least 20% at restaurants because they don't make much.  Unless service is really bad, we tip regardless.



Exactly my point. Tipping has gotten out of hand in this country. 15% used to be the standard. Then it creeped up to 18%. Now some are tipping 20% and more. Think about that for a moment. 20% is 1/5 of the total cost of the product. That's ridiculous IMO. What's worse is that service employees tend to depend on your generosity rather than their employer having to pay a decent wage. That's just not fair to the employee.

And what if your meal isn't very good? I know of no other product where you buy something that isn't as good as advertised and then give a bonus just for on time delivery. And what happens to the employee who serves folks from a country where tipping is frowned upon and gets a few dollars on a $100 meal? Or what about those patrons who just can't afford a 20% tip. Or what happens when someone gets a bad meal and leaves 5%? The Chef got his full salary. In any of theses cases the employee suffers. The next patron leaving 20% isn't going to make up the loss.


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## Bernie8245

1950bing said:


> $20 is half a tank of gas!!!!!!!!



Your car must have a small gas tank!!


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## VacationForever

jimf41 said:


> Exactly my point. Tipping has gotten out of hand in this country. 15% used to be the standard. Then it creeped up to 18%. Now some are tipping 20% and more. Think about that for a moment. 20% is 1/5 of the total cost of the product. That's ridiculous IMO. What's worse is that service employees tend to depend on your generosity rather than their employer having to pay a decent wage. That's just not fair to the employee.
> 
> And what if your meal isn't very good? I know of no other product where you buy something that isn't as good as advertised and then give a bonus just for on time delivery. And what happens to the employee who serves folks from a country where tipping is frowned upon and gets a few dollars on a $100 meal? Or what about those patrons who just can't afford a 20% tip. Or what happens when someone gets a bad meal and leaves 5%? The Chef got his full salary. In any of theses cases the employee suffers. The next patron leaving 20% isn't going to make up the loss.



By law, servers and hostesses need to make at least minimum wage. If tips are not enough to bring their wages up to minimum wage, the employer is responsible for making up the gap.  However, my friends who used to wait at tables while they were going to college told me that they made about $40-50K a year and much of it came from tips.  Without good tips, their pay would have been much lower.


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## krj9999

I generally leave $20 for a 2BR or 3BR 1-week stay; smaller unit either $10 or $15.


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## Pompey Family

sptung said:


> It is $2 per piece of luggage.  So if you have 5 pieces, it's $10.
> 
> It is customary to tip whoever comes up to your room to get you extra pillows, laundry bags etc.
> 
> Yes, you tip the girl at the bar.  Not sure what you meant by "nothing more".
> 
> Yes, tipping should be based on acknowledgment of good service but it becomes a standard now.  We tip at least 20% at restaurants because they don't make much.  Unless service is really bad, we tip regardless.



If a porter loads up a trolley with my bags and wheels that trolley to my room where is the justification for a tip per bag? I'd understand if he went back and forth for each bag. $10 would be ridiculous.

If a hotel has failed to provide me with items that should be there then I'm not tipping when I've had to request and wait for them. If I'm paying $50 a night to stay somewhere then yes, I would consider tipping but if you're charging me $300 a night then I expect all service to come at no additional cost, that's what I'm paying for.

As for tipping at a bar, why? I've never been anywhere else in the world where it is expected. The staff are paid that's why it costs me more to drink a beer in a bar than it does to buy it from a supermarket and drink it at home. Staff not paid enough? That's not my problem, why should I pay twice for their wages? It's no cheaper to drink in a bar in the US as it is to drink in a pub in England so the bar owner in the US is making considerably more money by avoiding paying his staff a decent wage.

Tipping should be a recognition of good service, it's simply become in the US a means to supplement wages. 20% is a ridiculous amount and I would never consider leaving that. A family of four with two children who are not going to be contributing financially would be shelling out quite a lot if they added 20% to every meal they ate.


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## jimf41

Interesting advice on tipping from Wikipedia and Rick Steves,

http://wikitravel.org/en/Tipping

https://www.ricksteves.com/travel-tips/money/tipping-in-europe


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## csxjohn

Pompey Family said:


> If a porter loads up a trolley with my bags and wheels that trolley to my room where is the justification for a tip per bag? I'd understand if he went back and forth for each bag. $10 would be ridiculous.
> 
> If a hotel has failed to provide me with items that should be there then I'm not tipping when I've had to request and wait for them. If I'm paying $50 a night to stay somewhere then yes, I would consider tipping but if you're charging me $300 a night then I expect all service to come at no additional cost, that's what I'm paying for.
> 
> As for tipping at a bar, why? I've never been anywhere else in the world where it is expected. The staff are paid that's why it costs me more to drink a beer in a bar than it does to buy it from a supermarket and drink it at home. Staff not paid enough? That's not my problem, why should I pay twice for their wages? It's no cheaper to drink in a bar in the US as it is to drink in a pub in England so the bar owner in the US is making considerably more money by avoiding paying his staff a decent wage.
> 
> Tipping should be a recognition of good service, it's simply become in the US a means to supplement wages. 20% is a ridiculous amount and I would never consider leaving that. A family of four with two children who are not going to be contributing financially would be shelling out quite a lot if they added 20% to every meal they ate.



It makes no sense to continually compare the US to Europe.  We are behind the rest of the world in many areas and a decent living wage for all employees is one of them.

In this county, business interests contorl the law making process so the business owners are going to get the long end of the stick.  The general population gets the short end.


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## Saintsfanfl

Sorry but tipping is for service. There is no housekeeping during your stay, therefore there is no service. If you want to leave something that is fine but it's a gift and not a tip. The cleaning is the prep for the next stay. We always tidy our room before we leave so it lessens the need for work. I prefer this over the "gift" if I was to choose, but I just feel better cleaning up after myself anyway.

The "tip" jars everywhere at zero service eating establishments is beyond ridiculous. I'm not sure where it started but probably Starbucks. McDonald's doesn't allow them and for good reason but they seem to be just about everywhere. If someone at Starbucks deserves 10% for pushing that fully automatic espresso machine then a full service waiter deserves 50%, where the tips are shared with the other full restaurant staff.

I was in Germany some years back and ate at restaurant in the hotel. I sat at the bar and had wonderful service. When I paid I billed it to the room but there was no tip line on the receipt to sign and I was confused. I asked and the bar tender didn't speak very good English but eventually it seemed there was no tipping. This was a foreign concept to me since I had not been out of country since I was a toddler.

This is a separate issue but if you want to full understand tip insanity you have to look at restaurant bills adjusted for inflation and the rise in the standard tip %. People think that the tip % has gone up over the years because of inflation but this is a fallacy. In 1970 the standard tip in the US was still about 10%. A moderate priced dinner for one person was $4.00. This would result in a $.40-$.50 tip. This same meal today is $25.00, which is the same value as $4.00 in 1970. That $25.00 bill with a 20% tip is $5.00, which is double the value of the 1970 tip.

The reason the tips have gotten out of control is because the US has transformed itself into a service economy. We shipped too many of our jobs elsewhere leaving service as the bread and butter.

Even though I agree that tipping is out of control I still tip 20% at full service restaurants where tipping is warranted. I just don't think tipping per coffee pour or for non-existent housekeeping is warranted.


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## rpw

*federal tipped minimum wage*

Has been stuck at $2.13 since 1991.  Employers are required to make up the difference to achieve ACTUAL minimum wage if tips do not cover that (although many small businesses don't).

As far as someone on tipped wages making $40-$50K a year, they must be working in a VERY high end restaurant or a very popular bar.  If you assume that everyone pays 20% (and that is a highly unlikely proposition) they would have to sell product in excess of $250,000 a year.


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## Beaglemom3

The DOL  http://www.dol.gov/elaws/faq/esa/flsa/002.htm

http://www.dol.gov/whd/state/tipped.htm


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## Passepartout

Just out of curiosity, where is the 'proper' place to put a housekeeper's tip? I just put it on a dresser, or (in a TS) the kitchen counter, but absent an envelope with the housekeeper's name on it, I wonder. I don't want a housekeeper feeling that any loose change (or currency) left lying about is automatically theirs, but I don't want to stiff them either.

And on a related note, when you have daily housekeeping, do you tip at the end of the trip? Daily? At the beginning of a stay? What if there are different housekeepers each day?

I'm honestly with the others that feel that tipping in general has gotten out of hand. It used to be a bonus, *T*o *I*nsure *P*rompt service, or exemplary service, not as entitlement to free the employer from paying employees a competitive, and 'living' wage.

Jim


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## presley

Passepartout said:


> Just out of curiosity, where is the 'proper' place to put a housekeeper's tip? I just put it on a dresser, or (in a TS) the kitchen counter, but absent an envelope with the housekeeper's name on it, I wonder. I don't want a housekeeper feeling that any loose change (or currency) left lying about is automatically theirs, but I don't want to stiff them either.
> 
> And on a related note, when you have daily housekeeping, do you tip at the end of the trip? Daily? At the beginning of a stay? What if there are different housekeepers each day?



I put it in the place where they will restock something, such as the coffee/tea basket or where the new toiletries will go.  If it is end of stay only, I put it on the kitchen counter, slightly tucked under the coffee maker.


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## rickandcindy23

Restaurants should pay a livable wage, but they do not, so why would someone come from a European country and be upset about tipping?  Before you visit the U.S. you need to know the culture, and tipping is OUR culture.  

I would never expect anyone to clean up anything after me without leaving a tip.  $20 is a nice tip.


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## SueDonJ

I don't understand the idea that housekeeping staff only do the one cleaning service at the end of a timeshare stay and nothing else.  You may not use them for anything else but there's an expectation that they'll respond quickly to any requests, isn't there?  We rarely go a whole week without asking for extra dishwashing soap, paper towels, pots and pans, etc, and at least at our home resorts those requests are taken care of very quickly.  That's why we tip, because housekeeping is normally a tipped position and they usually do it well.

In a hotel or anywhere else with daily housekeeping we leave the tip every day; at the end of a stay without daily service we leave it when we check out.  I usually leave it with a simple note that says "thank you, the J family!"


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## csxjohn

Passepartout said:


> ...And on a related note, when you have daily housekeeping, do you tip at the end of the trip? Daily? At the beginning of a stay? What if there are different housekeepers each day?
> 
> ...


Funny you should ask.

The only Ts where I've received daily housekeeping services is where I own.  I actually want to make sure the people who do the daily touch up are the ones who get the tip so here's what I do.

I don't really need that daily service so if my wife and I are both out of the room we leave the do not disturb sign on the door.  When one of us is in, we greet the maid and let them do their thing and then hand them the fiver.  

My wife doesn't really like the sun so she usually doesn't hit the pool until afternoon and if we've got nothing else planned, she's in the room.

The girls we've met there have all been great and they like to chit chat while they clean, it's kind of fun and they really appreciate the extra money.

After writing this I realize that I'm going to change the way I do it.

If we are both gone I will leave the money with a note that says, "daily housekeeper" and put the day on it so they know it's for them.  I've never had anything, money or otherwise taken from a unit there so I'll let them know for sure it's for them.


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## VacationForever

Passepartout said:


> Just out of curiosity, where is the 'proper' place to put a housekeeper's tip? I just put it on a dresser, or (in a TS) the kitchen counter, but absent an envelope with the housekeeper's name on it, I wonder. I don't want a housekeeper feeling that any loose change (or currency) left lying about is automatically theirs, but I don't want to stiff them either.
> 
> Jim



I normally leave on the kitchen counter and write a note that says "Thank you" with it.


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## Pompey Family

rickandcindy23 said:


> Restaurants should pay a livable wage, but they do not, so why would someone come from a European country and be upset about tipping?  Before you visit the U.S. you need to know the culture, and tipping is OUR culture.
> 
> I would never expect anyone to clean up anything after me without leaving a tip.  $20 is a nice tip.



What, am I not allowed to criticise an aspect of American culture that I dislike? 

There is also the problem of some American tourists visiting Europe and leaving excessive tips which ultimately lead to an expectation, particularly in tourist areas, of larger and larger tips from everyone.

Restaurants should pay a living wage but they don't because the value of tips has become so inflated that employers feel that they can pay their staff less and rely on tips to make up the shortfall, this was not always the case. You're supposed to be making a discretionary payment for good service not paying the waiting staff wages.


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## csxjohn

Pompey Family said:


> What, am I not allowed to criticise an aspect of American culture that I dislike?
> 
> There is also the problem of some American tourists visiting Europe and leaving excessive tips which ultimately lead to an expectation, particularly in tourist areas, of larger and larger tips from everyone.
> 
> Restaurants should pay a living wage but they don't because the value of tips has become so inflated that employers feel that they can pay their staff less and rely on tips to make up the shortfall, this was not always the case. You're supposed to be making a discretionary payment for good service not paying the waiting staff wages.



The owners are only going to pay what they have to by law in most cases.  Until there is a shortage of wait staff(not much chance of that)or changes in the laws in this country, it's going to continue as it is.


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## bazzap

I agree with the comment that people visiting other countries need to know (and embrace) the culture of a country.
We travel all over the world and encounter some quite unusual local cultures which we respect.
We know the US culture is one of tipping, so unless service is bad we certainly will always tip.
However, there is a difference between visitors respecting the local culture and them being expected even harassed to pay 20%+ tips which are contrary to their own culture and frankly just plain excessive whatever the employment practices and custom may be.
Personally, the only times I have and would ever pay this level of tip is for truly exceptional, service and in these cases it has been particularly memorable and very well deserved.


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## Saintsfanfl

Pompey Family said:


> What, am I not allowed to criticise an aspect of American culture that I dislike?
> 
> There is also the problem of some American tourists visiting Europe and leaving excessive tips which ultimately lead to an expectation, particularly in tourist areas, of larger and larger tips from everyone.
> 
> Restaurants should pay a living wage but they don't because the value of tips has become so inflated that employers feel that they can pay their staff less and rely on tips to make up the shortfall, this was not always the case. You're supposed to be making a discretionary payment for good service not paying the waiting staff wages.



This is correct. Employer's justify paying tip positions less because the tip is expected. If they can manage to increase the average tip % then they can either justify paying even less or not increasing the base wage with inflation. Without increasing the base wage with inflation, the worker makes even less, *unless* the tip percentage increases, which it has in the US. This is why you see so many tip hints at US businesses. It's so they can continue to pay service workers as little as possible. 

Restaurant tips being mandatory wages is evidenced by restaurants automatically adding the "service" charge at a certain party number and the Federal Government making it a law that the workers must make more than the so called "tip minimum wage". The Fed tip minimum wage is only $2.13 and it has been that way for a very long time, but the worker still must earn at least the regular minimum wage. If the tips are not enough the employer must increase the pay for the week.

The average wages per hour for a restaurant worker is about $12.00 which makes tips 70-80% of the total wages. If that government reported average is based on taxes then in reality it is much higher.


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## VacationForever

Saintsfanfl said:


> This is correct. Employer's justify paying tip positions less because the tip is expected. If they can manage to increase the average tip % then they can either justify paying even less or not increasing the base wage with inflation. Without increasing the base wage with inflation, the worker makes even less, *unless* the tip percentage increases, which it has in the US. This is why you see so many tip hints at US businesses. It's so they can continue to pay service workers as little as possible.
> 
> Restaurant tips being mandatory wages is evidenced by restaurants automatically adding the "service" charge at a certain party number and the Federal Government making it a law that the workers must make more than the so called "tip minimum wage". The Fed tip minimum wage is only $2.13 and it has been that way for a very long time, but the worker still must earn at least the regular minimum wage. If the tips are not enough the employer must increase the pay for the week.
> 
> The average wages per hour for a restaurant worker is about $12.00 which makes tips 70-80% of the total wages. If that government reported average is based on taxes then in reality it is much higher.



It is a zero sum game.  If US becomes a no-tip culture, then the prices on restaurant menus will be higher and the higher price will translate into higher wages.  No business intentionally stiff their employees.  It is a free market, an employee will go elsewhere if they don't feel they are treated right.  Businesses will pay their employees more if they can afford it.  I am all for US becoming a no-tip culture.


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## persia

But why a separate minimum wage for wait staff?  It makes no sense.  In Australia the minimum wage for waitstaff is $16.87, same as everyone else.  Paying waitstaff less is very demeaning.



csxjohn said:


> The owners are only going to pay what they have to by law in most cases.  Until there is a shortage of wait staff(not much chance of that)or changes in the laws in this country, it's going to continue as it is.


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## csxjohn

persia said:


> But why a separate minimum wage for wait staff?  It makes no sense.  In Australia the minimum wage for waitstaff is $16.87, same as everyone else.  Paying waitstaff less is very demeaning.



Why? Because the people making the laws own the businesses or are greatly influenced by them and that's the way it's going to be until attitudes in this country change.


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## bw3

*housekeeping tips*

We give the housekeepers $20 per br/ba per week when we receive exceptional service.  Since we usually stay at Grande Ocean for 4 to 7 weeks at a time, we usually see the staff when they arrive to do the stay over cleaning.  Sometimes we are using the full unit and other weeks we only use the master bedroom and bath.

We feel we get exceptional service that we value highly.  And I would say that is always the case at Grande Ocean.  We have stayed other places where the service was average or below average and the tip is, accordingly, little or nothing.

We are always concerned when we see the housekeeping part of the maintenance fee at more than $150 per week knowing the people doing the work are paid a fraction of that amount.  I am afraid Marriott makes too much profit off their people.


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## bogey21

Saintsfanfl said:


> Sorry but tipping is for service. There is no housekeeping during your stay, therefore there is no service. If you want to leave something that is fine but it's a gift and not a tip. The cleaning is the prep for the next stay......
> 
> .......Even though I agree that tipping is out of control I still tip 20% at full service restaurants where tipping is warranted. I just don't think tipping per coffee pour or for non-existent housekeeping is warranted.



Finally a comment I agree with.  For a while I thought I was out of step.

George


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## Saintsfanfl

persia said:


> But why a separate minimum wage for wait staff?  It makes no sense.  In Australia the minimum wage for waitstaff is $16.87, same as everyone else.  Paying waitstaff less is very demeaning.



The minimum wage is actually the same. The lesser amount is only what the employer is required to pay in base, then the tips make up the difference. If the actual tips plus the base are lower than the regular minimum wage then the employer pays the difference for that week. There is only one minimum wage.

One of the reasons the minimum base pay exists is to ensure that these types of positions are regularly on the payroll and reported as employees.

No tip earning position exists in the US that routinely earns less than the federal minimum wage. If it did, the employee would quit. The exceptions where the employer makes up the differences are rare and usually a result of the wait staff sitting around for too long during a slow part of the day.

Do Australian waiters earn tips on top of the $16.87? If adjusted for cost of living and exchange rate the US $12.00 avg for waiters is actually worth more than the $16.87 in Australia.


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## csxjohn

bogey21 said:


> Finally a comment I agree with.  For a while I thought I was out of step.
> 
> George



I think that you and the Fla Saints fan are forgetting that a service was performed before you entered you room.  

If that cleaning was done well as opposed to not so well, I give them a better tip.

As I explained earlier, many of these people are not resort employees and get paid on a per clean basis much like a sub contractor.

But it's still everyone's choice to tip or not at your timeshare.


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## Saintsfanfl

csxjohn said:


> I think that you and the Fla Saints fan are forgetting that a service was performed before you entered you room.
> 
> If that cleaning was done well as opposed to not so well, I give them a better tip.
> 
> As I explained earlier, many of these people are not resort employees and get paid on a per clean basis much like a sub contractor.
> 
> But it's still everyone's choice to tip or not at your timeshare.



I am not arguing against someone wanting to give a gift, to each their own, but I find the idea of the amount based on how clean your room is when you check in a little out there. Shouldn't a clean room be a given? Isn't that what we expect? Isn't that why we bought a Marriott and pay higher annual fees? If your room is filthy do you "stiff" on your gift and go about as normal?

There are certain things in life that should be a given. Like a clean room at a Marriott. Marriott gives us that assurance when they put their name on it. The delivery of that clean room is their virtual guarantee. How much they pay to get it cleaned is not my business or in my control.  Generally the room should be spotless by default. I didn't ask for it extra clean, it's just the way it comes. You shouldn't have to pay extra for it but like I said if someone wants to give them something I have no issues. 

Something else on the other hand, like using an optional service like bag help, is completely different.


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## Beaglemom3

Disclaimer: 

I've waited tables and my Irish Grandmother cleaned Boston's law offices where I sit now. So, yes, I have a bias here.

My newspaper deliverer, dog walker, letter carrier, supermarket bag carrier, room service and hairdresser all get paid somehow, someway, but they do get a tip from me at some point be it for the holiday or at time of service (or both).

For me, there's no difference when I travel and stay at a B&B, timeshare, Inn or hotel/motel when it comes to gratuity for a service rendered.

YMMV.

This is a good conversation with lots of input and opinions. I hope it does not become uncivil; feisty and/or animated - okay, but not uncivil.


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## Weimaraner

Even though most timeshares I stay in only have a mid week tidy, I still leave $20. First, the villas are big...it's tough work to get a 1200-1700 square foot villa spotless in just a couple hours work. I don't think they are picking up a lot of tips from room to room. And if you read reviews on TripAdvisor, you'll see how important it iis to guests, including myself, to get a super clean villa AND get it on time for check in, if not earlier. I swear if I see one more picture on TA of a hair where it doesn't belong . i appreciate the super clean home they give me to live in for a week.


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## csxjohn

Saintsfanfl said:


> I am not arguing against someone wanting to give a gift, to each their own, but I find the idea of the amount based on how clean your room is when you check in a little out there. Shouldn't a clean room be a given? Isn't that what we expect? Isn't that why we bought a Marriott and pay higher annual fees? If your room is filthy do you "stiff" on your gift and go about as normal?
> 
> There are certain things in life that should be a given. Like a clean room at a Marriott. Marriott gives us that assurance when they put their name on it. The delivery of that clean room is their virtual guarantee. How much they pay to get it cleaned is not my business or in my control. I didn't ask for it extra clean, it's just the way it comes. Generally the room should be spotless by default. You shouldn't have to pay extra for it but like I said if someone wants to give them something I have no issues. Something else on the other hand, like using an optional service like bag help, is completely different.



I don't disagree and it does depend where you are talking about.

I do expect a clean room and would not accept a dirty room but in the no hotel chain timeshares there is definitely a difference in the time taken to clean the units.

I've stayed in some cabin types in the mountains where not as much time is spent on dusting every speck in the room.When I stay at the Wyndhams, I can tell that a lot of time and effort is spent on the cleaning, I imagine the Marriott's even more so.  That does affect my tip but not all that much.

I usually plan on $10 per bedroom in the unit.  If there are problems with the cleanliness when I check in, I get it taken care of and adjust accordingly.  At the same time, if the place is huge, spotless and I know a lot of extra effort is needed I adjust upward.

This is unique because when we tip housekeeping the next person in gets the benefit or lack thereof due to the job the previous cleaner did.  But there are standards the resorts require so I don't think it's too different from one crew to the next.


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## JimC

If unsure, ask what is typical.  You might also ask if housekeeping is considered a tipped position.  They are not universally tipped positions, even in the US.  Then you can make an informed decision about what you want to do.


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## suzannesimon

I read somewhere that housekeeping tips should be left on a bed pillow, which is what I do.

The first time we went to Marriott Frenchman's Cove, back in 2009, we were staying in a 3BR and I ordered a full midweek cleaning, which was pretty pricey as I recall.  I came in from the pool just as the maid was finishing and I handed her $20.  She scowled and said it was a big unit and she should be tipped more.  I gave her another $5 and she left without a thank you.  I swear that the place had been in good shape.  About the only thing she did beyond the tidy was fresh sheets.  They got a new manager the following year and the attitude of the service employees changed 100%.  He taught them how to behave the Marriott way but that first year was rocky from the front desk tonthe maids.

We were at KoOlina last month and had family coming and going from 2 units.  My son moved out of one room the day his dad was checking into it.  He went to the desk to ask to have the linens changed on the bed.  They told him he would need to pay for a midweek cleaning.  He told them to never mind and asked if he could just get clean sheets.  They told him they would send them up.  A few minutes later the maid arrived with clean sheets.  He told her he'd pay her $10 if she could change the sheets - no other services needed.  She did it and was quite happy when she left.


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## GaryDouglas

rgrisard said:


> ... I usually leave $20 tip for housekeeping for my one weeks stay at any timeshare.   Is that enough?



Since this was the initiating question, I'll address it first.  We don't tip for hotel/TS room services unless we initiate the service.  Example, my wife wants three times the normal amount of hangers, we tip when the hangers arrive.  Everything else in our mind comes with the amount we paid for the room.  So for us, it's for service above and beyond.

Now, deviating from the subject like so many others...  What is a 'living wage'? If you asked 100 people, you'd get 100 different answers.  Meaningless.  I know for the area we live in, you can't live 'comfortably' unless you make over $60K/Year, and for a couple, make that over $120K/Year.  You couldn't afford to buy a house, but you'd get by.  So, if a waiter in a restaurant were to make a 'living wage' in the SF bay area, my guess is most restaurants would go out of business.  For us, restaurants would be for special occasions only.


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## bobpark56

*Tips on Pillow*

I usually tip for daily maid service at a resort by leaving a bit of cash on my pillow. This works in Mexico, but I tried it at Marriott's Playa Andaluza in Spain last year, and the maids would not take it.


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## persia

No Australian society did not like the European concept of servants, preferring a more equitable society, tipping is basically a remnant of that upstairs/downstairs servant/master relationship.



Saintsfanfl said:


> The minimum wage is actually the same. The lesser amount is only what the employer is required to pay in base, then the tips make up the difference. If the actual tips plus the base are lower than the regular minimum wage then the employer pays the difference for that week. There is only one minimum wage.
> 
> One of the reasons the minimum base pay exists is to ensure that these types of positions are regularly on the payroll and reported as employees.
> 
> No tip earning position exists in the US that routinely earns less than the federal minimum wage. If it did, the employee would quit. The exceptions where the employer makes up the differences are rare and usually a result of the wait staff sitting around for too long during a slow part of the day.
> 
> Do Australian waiters earn tips on top of the $16.87? If adjusted for cost of living and exchange rate the US $12.00 avg for waiters is actually worth more than the $16.87 in Australia.


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## amyhwang

To the OP: I think if you had service throughout the week and want to leave a tip, that's nice.  Even when I stay for longer than a week, I sometimes keep the place VERY clean (I am totally anal about this, even buying my own kitchen cleaner to sanitize the countertops daily), I frequently tell them to skip the midweek tidy or even the full clean after one week (one time the maid came after our first full week at Sabal Palms, and I told her we didn't need it as I had already cleaned up very well, so she had me sign something that I think indicated she had cleaned it so she was thrilled that I gave her quite a big break in her day!).

So, that being said, I don't leave a tip.

If I am at a DVC rental once I paid extra for daily housekeeping (it was over Christmas and we were out a lot so it was nice) then I tipped a few dollars a day.

I do leave unopened kitchen items for the housekeeping to share, like drinks or snacks.

I don't think it's expected to leave a tip if you don't see housekeeping.

If they bring something up to the room, I give them a tip (like extra pillows, a rollaway bed, etc...).  Usually a $5 or a couple dollars, depends on what's in my wallet!

I had a friend years ago that had previously worked at the Ritz Carlton Kapalua, and when we were there together once (we all lived on Oahu at the time) she told me that at the Ritz resorts, the housekeeping staff is paid very well, and many of them work there for many years.  They are also very strict with whom they hire, and the security for them to ensure no theft is happening is tight.  Back at the time, she said it was over $17/hour and this was almost 20 years ago.


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## CarolF

Saintsfanfl said:


> Do Australian waiters earn tips on top of the $16.87? If adjusted for cost of living and exchange rate the US $12.00 avg for waiters is actually worth more than the $16.87 in Australia.



We’re quite well protected in Australia when it comes to fair pay and wages. We have penalty rates, overtime and a minimum wage so it seems unnecessary to tip under these circumstances.

$640.90 a week is the minimum wage for our lowest-paid workers - cleaners, retail and hospitality staff, childcare workers, farm labourers and factory workers.  $16.87 is the hourly wage for a level 1 *full time waiter* working Mon - Fri only.  Saturday rate is $25.28 per hour and Sunday is $33.70, the hours of 7pm to 7am is $18.66 and public holidays $42.13.  

Full-time and part-time workers are entitled to a minimum of 4 weeks of paid annual leave (holiday/vacation) for every 12 months of continuous service. Shift workers are entitled to 5 weeks of paid annual leave.  After 10 years of service, workers are entitled to 3 months of paid long service leave (holiday/vacation).

Over and above the annual leave, workers are eligible for approximately 13 days of paid public holidays annually.

Full-time, permanent workers are entitled to 10 days of paid personal or carer’s leave per year.  Personal leave is for when you are unfit for work due to illness or injury. 

In addition to the base rate the employer is required to pay an additional 9.5% of the workers wage into the workers personal superannuation fund (a personal savings fund for retirement).


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## Pompey Family

The whole tipping culture is becoming insidious over here. I went for lunch at a local pub today, ordered and paid at the bar before receiving the food and paid by card. Upon entering the pin there was an option for a gratuity! I declined much to the barman's obvious disappointment. How can I be expected to tip for good service before I've even experienced it?

I had to find my own seat, collect my own cutlery and condiments and return to the bar to order any further drinks, all of which is fine...I'm in a pub. The only service I received other than the food being cooked (which is why I'm paying so much) was a member of staff bringing it to me (again, why I'm paying so much).

I'm also starting to see more and more tip jars on counters in places where you don't receive table service such as coffee shops etc. :annoyed:


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## suzannesimon

I don't feel the need to tip for carry-out service either, but the tip line is an automatic on the credit card and many places still have the tip jar next to the cash register.  Also you see it at ice cream places - 20% for an ice cream cone?  I have always figured that those employees are paid at least minimum wage, not the lower amount for wait staff in real restaurants.


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## csxjohn

suzannesimon said:


> I don't feel the need to tip for carry-out service either, but the tip line is an automatic on the credit card and many places still have the tip jar next to the cash register.  Also you see it at ice cream places - 20% for an ice cream cone?  I have always figured that those employees are paid at least minimum wage, not the lower amount for wait staff in real restaurants.



It looks like I'm the odd ball here.  I tip the people at the ice cream counters.  Yes, they are getting min. wage but if the service is good, what's an extra dollar or two.

I also frequently tip the cooks when I eat out.  It the food is delicious above and beyond what I usually get, the cook(s) get a little extra.

I gave $2 to the porter who washed my car at my dealership and by his reaction, I'm the first and only one to do that.

The folks at the local Subway hustled their butts off for a big order I had for an outing and I gave them a few dollars.  They aren't allowed to accept tips they told me.  I left it on the cash register, hopefully they wised up and took it.

I'm not rich by any means but I remember a few people tipping me when I had a paper route.  Sure, they were paying for the paper and me to deliver it but they knew it took some effort to do it right day after day after day.  I also got a few tips when I worked for a caterer as a cook.

Now that I can afford it, I'm not shy about helping others.

I liked Steve Martin in the movie My Blue Heaven.  "I don't believe in tipping, I believe in over tipping." or words to that effect.  People do remember when you treat them well and even if I never meet them or see them again, the maids in my TSs are getting a little extra for cleaning my room before I got there.


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## suzannesimon

My son has started tipping desk clerks and even tried to tip a gate attendant at the airport.  He tells the desk clerk "Here is a $10 (or $20) for you.  You've been on your feet all day doing a great job and you deserve as much consideration as anyone else in this hotel."  He almost always gets an upgraded room.  The gate attendant wouldn't take the tip, but gave him an exit row.


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## Pat H

I do not tip at a ts if I do not get a midweek or daily housekeeping. If I need something and housekeeping brings it, I tip the delivery person. In Mexico where we get twice daily service every day, I leave a daily tip for the day maid and once for the night maid. As fas as I am concerned, the m/f's pay for the weekly cleaning.


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## Saintsfanfl

csxjohn said:


> I also frequently tip the cooks when I eat out.  It the food is delicious above and beyond what I usually get, the cook(s) get a little extra.



Just curious on how you go about tipping a cook at a restaurant. Do you give it to the server or ask for the cook, or chef? Some may find this surprising but it is actually against federal law for a cook, or any back of the house restaurant employee, to share in a tip pool unless they are also included in the service like a sushi or hibachi chef. This law stemmed from owners or managers stealing tips through a mandated percentage or tip pool.

When I first moved to Florida I tried to tip the Publix employee that helped with my bags. I rarely have them do it but I was in the mood. He wouldn't accept it and said Publix prohibits tips.


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## klpca

An aunty of mine cleans condos in Hawaii for a living. I know that she works hard to ensure that every unit is spotless when a guest arrives. I don't think that she expects a tip, but I know that she is very appreciative of them when they are received.

Btw, I think that $20 is fine, especially if the unit is left is pretty good condition. If it's a mess, I think the tip should be more. JMHO, fwiw.


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## Elan

I tip for good personal service.  So, I don't tip for routine weekly housekeeping at timeshares, but I have tipped the DirecTV installer because he went beyond what was req'd.


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## Saintsfanfl

I hate to burst any bubbles on the housekeeping tips but how do you know they will even get it at an MVCI timeshare? In many of my experiences the first one in the room is the laundry snatchers and not the cleaning person. I had an item accidentally left in the room that was likely taken by a laundry crew last year.


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## suzannesimon

At every single Marriott timeshare I have ever stayed in, when we opened the door to leave at 10:00 a.m. sharp, the maids were  standing there waiting for us to leave.  In fact, at Ko Olina last month, they arrived a few minutes early and came in and started cleaning before we walked out the door.


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## rickandcindy23

I think a lot of the maids at timeshare resorts make pretty close to minimum wage, even the Hiltons, Marriotts and Starwoods.  For me, a $20 tip is not much money at all, but to them, it could mean a little more meat on the table for their families.   

Tipping is for service, and sure, the unit has to be cleaned before we arrive at the timeshare resorts, anyway.  I realize some of you think it's not necessary, but think of the disparity of the person vacationing vs. the person who is cleaning the room.  

We used to tip less than we do now, and Rick and I
 had a conversation for about 10 seconds, and the above was exactly what we decided.  To reiterate, our consensus: it's the disparity between our financial situations vs. the server or the housekeeper.  It's huge, and so we try to boost their salary a little bit for their service.


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## Docklander

If people are concerned that maids/housekeeping aren't getting paid a proper wage (and so have to rely on tips) isn't it up to owners to ensure their HOA is paying these staff a living wage? 

I have no problem tipping if we ask for any extras or if luggage is brought to our room but I consider our maintenance fees to include the wages of the staff. If these wages aren't sufficient then this is where the attention needs to be focused and not on the size of tips left by owners. The sooner we stop the culture of tipping because it's needed to prop up an unacceptable wage the better.

Unless we receive service above and beyond the expected norms I don't see the need for a tip....especially as the most we ever get is a mid-week tidy which takes all of 10 minutes based on the one I witnessed at Waiohai.


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## am1

Saintsfanfl said:


> When I first moved to Florida I tried to tip the Publix employee that helped with my bags. I rarely have them do it but I was in the mood. He wouldn't accept it and said Publix prohibits tips.



I am forced to shop at places where you cannot take the instore carts outside. Only the bag boys can use the outside carts and they expect a tip as that is their wages.  

I understand why customers cannot take carts outside but do not like that it falls to us to pay the salary of their workers.


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## mdurette

WOW - I am a person that usually recognizes when to tip....but honestly, I have NEVER left a tip at a TS since I never see housekeeping during our week long stays.  If they have a mid-week trash and towel service, I keep the do not disturb sign on the door.

Maybe we should start a poll?


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## Beaglemom3

rickandcindy23 said:


> I think a lot of the maids at timeshare resorts make pretty close to minimum wage, even the Hiltons, Marriotts and Starwoods.  For me, a $20 tip is not much money at all, but to them, it could mean a little more meat on the table for their families.
> 
> Tipping is for service, and sure, the unit has to be cleaned before we arrive at the timeshare resorts, anyway.  I realize some of you think it's not necessary, but think of the disparity of the person vacationing vs. the person who is cleaning the room.
> 
> We used to tip less than we do now, and Rick and I
> had a conversation for about 10 seconds, and the above was exactly what we decided.  To reiterate, our consensus: it's the disparity between our financial situations vs. the server or the housekeeper.  It's huge, and so we try to boost their salary a little bit for their service.



  My feelings, too.


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## Saintsfanfl

suzannesimon said:


> At every single Marriott timeshare I have ever stayed in, when we opened the door to leave at 10:00 a.m. sharp, the maids were  standing there waiting for us to leave.  In fact, at Ko Olina last month, they arrived a few minutes early and came in and started cleaning before we walked out the door.



Perhaps but I can say with certainty that there are Marriott timeshares where the maids do not enter the room until the the laundry crew picks up all the dirty laundry. It is a matter of efficiency as well as proper work standards. This is always the process at Ocean Pointe and I am pretty sure at Lakeshore Reserve as well. The laundry crew will wear gloves and remove all bedding and towels. This way the cleaning crew does not have to deal with unsanitary laundry. I am surprised that this is not a standard practice at all MVCI resorts.

I have had them wait outside my door, sometimes for an hour or more, but it has been the laundry person.


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## Beaglemom3

I was once told that the cleaning crews are often pressured to get the t/s units cleaned as early as possible for the next occupant has requested an early check in due to flying all night, a sick baby, etc.

They seem to be caught in the middle by trying to accommodate others.


-


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## Passepartout

Here's an observation. I have spent a majority of my life in the decidedly 'blue collar' side of the economy. Many of my friends have been people in service industries. I have been in and owned a floor covering business, I drove 18 wheelers for 30 years. I have been in public relations, appeared on national TV, and spoken before numerous business and governmental associations. I am friends with waitresses and hair dressers and barbers. I also rub shoulders with my share of doctors and lawyers. I know of what I speak.

One thing I've seen is that people who work for tips themselves are a helluva lot more generous when they are on the receiving side of the dining table or are guests in a lodging. The 'wealthier'- or 'entitled' class tend to be stingier. Now, of course there are exceptions. Some tip earners are tightwads, and some who were raised with a silver spoon in their mouth are truly generous to the workers who provide for their comforts and cleanliness. It crosses all economic strata.

I smiled that this discussion was placed in the Marriott forum. Like Marriott owners should be either more confused (is $20 enough of a tip?) or it it too much? I was amazed- bemused- befuddled by comments that tipping (in USA where tipping is the norm) was optional and not part of the cost of a vacation. It actually crosses all segments of the timeshare, and travel interest groups.

I will continue to leave my roughly $3 pp/day and try to get it into the hands of those who do the most to make sure my stay is pleasant. Thanks to those who suggested that 'on the pillow' is one place the housekeeper would be sure who is the intended recipient, and not just pocket change left on a counter.

Jim


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## Beaglemom3

Passepartout said:


> Here's an observation. I have spent a majority of my life in the decidedly 'blue collar' side of the economy. Many of my friends have been people in service industries. I have been in and owned a floor covering business, I drove 18 wheelers for 30 years. I have been in public relations, appeared on national TV, and spoken before numerous business and governmental associations. I am friends with waitresses and hair dressers and barbers. I also rub shoulders with my share of doctors and lawyers. I know of what I speak.
> 
> One thing I've seen is that people who work for tips themselves are a helluva lot more generous when they are on the receiving side of the dining table or are guests in a lodging. The 'wealthier'- or 'entitled' class tend to be stingier. Now, of course there are exceptions. Some tip earners are tightwads, and some who were raised with a silver spoon in their mouth are truly generous to the workers who provide for their comforts and cleanliness. It crosses all economic strata.
> 
> I smiled that this discussion was placed in the Marriott forum. Like Marriott owners should be either more confused (is $20 enough of a tip?) or it it too much? I was amazed- bemused- befuddled by comments that tipping (in USA where tipping is the norm) was optional and not part of the cost of a vacation. It actually crosses all segments of the timeshare, and travel interest groups.
> 
> I will continue to leave my roughly $3 pp/day and try to get it into the hands of those who do the most to make sure my stay is pleasant. Thanks to those who suggested that 'on the pillow' is one place the housekeeper would be sure who is the intended recipient, and not just pocket change left on a counter.
> 
> Jim





Well said.

I will think about this thread when our practice pools money together at Christmas for our husband & wife cleaning team. They make our world just that much easier, unseen and unsung.


0


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## csxjohn

Saintsfanfl said:


> Just curious on how you go about tipping a cook at a restaurant. Do you give it to the server or ask for the cook, or chef? Some may find this surprising but it is actually against federal law for a cook, or any back of the house restaurant employee, to share in a tip pool unless they are also included in the service like a sushi or hibachi chef. This law stemmed from owners or managers stealing tips through a mandated percentage or tip pool.
> 
> When I first moved to Florida I tried to tip the Publix employee that helped with my bags. I rarely have them do it but I was in the mood. He wouldn't accept it and said Publix prohibits tips.



When I do this it's a diner or bar type establishment where I know their wages are low.

I give the money to the check out cashier and they immediately hand it over to the cooks.  In the bars I just hand it to the cooks.


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## Mamianka

csxjohn said:


> I think that you and the Fla Saints fan are forgetting that a service was performed before you entered you room.
> 
> If that cleaning was done well as opposed to not so well, I give them a better tip.
> 
> As I explained earlier, many of these people are not resort employees and get paid on a per clean basis much like a sub contractor.
> 
> But it's still everyone's choice to tip or not at your timeshare.



This is our philosophy - even if nobody entered the room or did anything WHILE we were there, somebody cleaned it before we arrived.  We usually leave $20 or so, and a note saying "Thank you for the clean room we stayed in."  We figure it goes around - if the tip is picked up by ANOTHER housekeeper, then the one who cleaned our room (before we arrived) got the tip left by that previous guest, etc.  We can afford to go on vacation - and I never had to work in a job that made depend on tips.  So I figure that leaning a bit to the side of generosity or thoughtfulness is very small thing to do on my end, and might be larger on the receiver's end.  We also have OTHER ways to make displeasure known for poor service, etc. - and ways to praise fine service.  Yelp and all the other online places will make a bigger impact on proprietors, than how much we give - or not not give - the folks who work behind the scenes.  Three short tips - no matter;  three bad reviews - WOW! 
 I agree that our economy in the US is loony - and so is it in other places, too - we just get entrenched in what we have.  There is escalation and *quickening* in all parameters of life - I just was in a very warm discussion about rising pitch and intonation issues in professional orchestras - it makes us crazy, but there is no going back now; A 440 is considered quaint in many places, and you had better have an instrument capable of 442, 444  or higher.  WHY?  It's climbing - because it's climbing?  Clothing sizes have all been enlarged a LOT in recent times - nobody wants to admit that they are fatter, so a size 10 is last decade's 16.  It's everywhere - not just in money - but nobody seems to complain when the Dow hits 17K either, do they?  They just check their portfolio.
Leave the workers a  little something if you feel it is deserved, if only for their spot in life - or if the nuns that taught you make you still feel guilty.  Doesn't matter to ME - matters to the receiver.

Mamianka


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## DeniseM

We recently spent 3 weeks in the same unit, and I tipped $20 each week.  We have a full cleaning every week, and a mid-week linens change, and supplies refill.  They did a really good job, and I was happy to show my appreciation.  I grew up poor, and now that I can help someone else in a small way, I feel blessed to be able to do so.


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## Elan

I consider tipping for good service and charity for the less fortunate two distinct matters.  I bet a lot of others feel the same way.


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## DeniseM

Elan said:


> I consider tipping for good service and charity for the less fortunate two distinct matters.  I bet a lot of others feel the same way.



There was no charity involved - I was showing my appreciation for their _hard work.  _


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## Elan

DeniseM said:


> There was no charity involved - I was showing my appreciation for their _hard work.  _


That's fine.  I wasn't addressing your post.


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## DeniseM

Elan said:


> That's fine.  I wasn't addressing your post.



Oh - sorry - since it came right after mine, I "assumed."  If you want to address a specific post, it's helpful to use the quote function.


----------



## Beaglemom3

Pompey Family said:


> I agree, the whole tipping situation is a nightmare when we travel to the States. How much is expected? Are you going to offend someone by leaving too little or do you end up raising the bar by leaving too much?
> 
> I was particularly pissed off by a recent meal in San Francisco where part of the bill consisted of 3% employee health insurance contributions! Why am I expected to fund that?
> 
> I upset a cabbie at the airport by leaving him the change from the fare, 90 cents or thereabouts but from my point of view why does he deserve a tip? I got into his car, he drove me to where I wanted and I got out, I had no luggage, he remained in his seat the entire time. The fare was, in my view slightly excessive, so he was sufficiently remunerated and there was absolutely no justification for a tip other than "that's what usually happens". I never tip a taxi driver in Europe and neither do they expect it, why should it be different in the US?



    I am posting this not to debate you, but to give you another perspective.

  Interestingly enough, every tour operator in England, Ireland, Wales and France reminded us  at the end of our tours to "leave something in the basket" if we enjoyed our trip.

  Mind you, we had folks from all countries on our tour bus, not just Americans.

  This has been my experience from the first time I starting going to the UK and Ireland in 1981.

  So, what I'm saying is that the expectation or hope for gratuity for services rendered is not unique to American culture.

  ETA: I am always irked paying the excessive VAT tax while in the UK, too.


----------



## tgropp

*If people think that tipping is out of hand in the USA, try coming to Canada. The minimum wage here is $11/hour and lots of people think that it is their right to get an 18% tip on top of that...usually for crummy service. Whenever we go to the States we always get exceptional service because their wages are lower and I have no problem with 15%. I remember when it was 10, then 12, then 15, then 18. Now its 20 and people in the industry think it should be 25%. Employers, Pay your employees!!*


----------



## alchook

I would agree that $20 is pretty reasonable. I tip housekeeping if I'm only staying one night in a hotel. I think they have a hard job and are probably underpaid. This isn't a lot of money to me in terms of what I spend on a vacation, but it would be a decent bonus if they got that from everyone.

To put things in perspective, I just read that Phil Mickelson tips the hotel maid $1000.


----------



## Docklander

alchook said:


> To put things in perspective, I just read that Phil Mickelson tips the hotel maid $1000.



To add to that perspective:

According to Forbes Mr Mickelson earned $54m last year. If a person earning $200,000/year wanted to match Mr Mickelson's tip on a pro-rata basis then he/she would be tipping around $3.70.


----------



## rickandcindy23

I gave our mid-week cleaner at Hilton Kohala Suites a $10 tip for restocking supplies and changing linens.  She was the same one who arrived to clean on checkout day.  My mother-in-law handed her a tip, which I didn't see and didn't inquire as to what she gave her, and I gave her another $10.  She was the only one there to clean.  The unit was amazing in every way.  I felt blessed to stay there for a full week, especially as cheaply as we did through RCI exchange. 

Someone commented that owners should know what staff gets paid.  Nope.  How many of you know what your cleaning staff gets per hour + benefits.


----------



## Docklander

rickandcindy23 said:


> Someone commented that owners should know what staff gets paid.  Nope.  How many of you know what your cleaning staff gets per hour + benefits.



You may be referring to this comment of mine:



Docklander said:


> If people are concerned that maids/housekeeping aren't getting paid a proper wage (and so have to rely on tips) isn't it up to owners to ensure their HOA is paying these staff a living wage?



I didn't say that owners "should know what staff gets paid" I suggested that if owners were that conceded about wages then they should probably try do something about it through the HOA. Perhaps first find out what the wages are and then do try to do something about them if they're low.....that would be the right thing to do.

If our MFs are not providing a decent living wage to staff then I'd much rather see them rise than have staff rely on tips. As well as doing the right thing by staff this would also prevent owners feeling they need to tip when they have, in fact, received little or no service at all other than what they are already paying for in MFs. This way we can get back to a culture where a tip is a reward for great service/work and not a wage supplement to let employers off the hook.


----------



## Pompey Family

Beaglemom3 said:


> I am posting this not to debate you, but to give you another perspective.
> 
> Interestingly enough, every tour operator in England, Ireland, Wales and France reminded us  at the end of our tours to "leave something in the basket" if we enjoyed our trip.
> 
> Mind you, we had folks from all countries on our tour bus, not just Americans.
> 
> This has been my experience from the first time I starting going to the UK and Ireland in 1981.
> 
> So, what I'm saying is that the expectation or hope for gratuity for services rendered is not unique to American culture.
> 
> ETA: I am always irked paying the excessive VAT tax while in the UK, too.



I'm not saying that it's unique, tipping has always been a part of British and European culture for as long as I can remember it's just that it was usually confined to restaurant service and typically a small amount to round up the bill certainly not the 10%, 15%, 20% that we're seeing these days. I'm now starting to see more and more restaurants, typically chains, that are including a service charge of 12 to 15% on their bills. If I see that this is their policy before I order then I'm going somewhere else. 

As for VAT, the UK has a fairly low rate in comparison to most Western European countries although many are around the 20% to 25% mark. I do find it easier though than the US model where tax is added when you pay, I always get caught out on my first visit to the supermarket.

The Air Passenger Duty tax however makes me fume! I've written to my MP previously to complain about it but that was a waste of time.


----------



## CarolF

Beaglemom3 said:


> Interestingly enough, every tour operator in England, Ireland, Wales and France reminded us  at the end of our tours to "leave something in the basket" if we enjoyed our trip.



I bet it happens here too and I think it is disgraceful to take advantage of visitors (it isn't customary to tip tour operators here either).

The term "leave something in the basket" annoys me enormously because it only _suggests_ that they are asking for your money.  Tour operators are paid appropriately in all those places.  I would be inclined to ask them if their employer permits and condones the staff begging for money or perhaps ask if staff are permitted to keep the money or are required to hand it over to their employer.

As an aside, I have travelled with a group (outside the US) and we all wanted to tip an exceptionally good tour operator so we collectively put money in and presented it to him from the group.  Each person also said thanks individually.


----------



## billymach4

*while we are on the subject of tips.....*

How about the tipping policy on cruise ships. I understand this is the other way the crew is compensated, but the industry advertise one rate then you are forced to pay a hidden surcharge


----------



## Saintsfanfl

billymach4 said:


> How about the tipping policy on cruise ships. I understand this is the other way the crew is compensated, but the industry advertise one rate then you are forced to pay a hidden surcharge



It is no longer a tip when it is automatically charged as a surcharge. A tip is defined as gratuity. The current cruise ship practice is definitely hidden charge deception.

There are still some areas of the world where a tip is considered an insult. This is especially true in Japan.


----------



## CarolF

billymach4 said:


> How about the tipping policy on cruise ships. I understand this is the other way the crew is compensated, but the industry advertise one rate then you are forced to pay a hidden surcharge



except if you are Australian 

From Carnival Cruise Lines brochure -


> As with all cruises on Spirit and Legend departing from Australia, the cruises to and from Singapore and Honolulu will operate in Australian dollars and feature entertainment and food designed for Australian tastes, *with no tipping required*.


----------



## Saintsfanfl

CarolF said:


> except if you are Australian
> 
> From Carnival Cruise Lines brochure -



Mandatory gratuity or tips always seemed like an oxymoron to me. The IRS finally changed the law started on 1/1/14 and a mandatory "tip" or no longer a tip at all. They are now regular wages. It makes a difference on reporting, taxes, and most importantly to the employee, overtime.

This is one very negative aspect of the entire tipping culture. By passing on the labor burden to the customer, it robs the long hours and hard working employees of valuable overtime. The employer wins. The IRS viewed the mandatory tips as a loophole the employers used in circumventing overtime laws and they closed it. It obviously still exists with the discretionary tips and that will not change any time soon.


----------



## persia

Pompey Family said:


> As for VAT, the UK has a fairly low rate in comparison to most Western European countries although many are around the 20% to 25% mark. I do find it easier though than the US model where tax is added when you pay, I always get caught out on my first visit to the supermarket.



Technically it's up to the store to decide whether to include sales tax in the price, but there are two dis-incentives to this.  1) It makes your price appear higher than your competitors and 2) If you operate in more than one state you have to have different pricing and therefore different ads for each state.  

Where it makes sense is where you do a lot of cash transactions.  Say you are selling hot dogs and the price is $2, it's far simpler to just include the tax in that price and not worry about making small change than trying to keep a lot of pennies around.

Which brings up another question, why does the US still have pennies?  They are an annoyance and half the time I just toss them anyway.


----------



## jtp1947

Cost of Producing the Penny 2.41 cents, Nickel 11.18 cents, Dime 5.65 cents, Quarter 11.14 cents, and Golden Dollar Coins 18.03 cents.


(United States Mint, 2011 Annual Report, pg. 11)


----------



## Saintsfanfl

jtp1947 said:


> Cost of Producing the Penny 2.41 cents, Nickel 11.18 cents, Dime 5.65 cents, Quarter 11.14 cents, and Golden Dollar Coins 18.03 cents.
> 
> 
> (United States Mint, 2011 Annual Report, pg. 11)



And people wonder why they stopped using copper to make the pennies...

Without looking at the annual report I am wondering if the numbers are real. How much of the 2.41 cents for the penny is direct and how much is overhead being allocated. In other words, if you eliminate the penny, how much expense actually goes down on the bottom line instead of just shifting it over. No way would we save 2.41 by eliminating pennies. Zinc isn't that expensive.

Zinc cost ~$1 per pound. There are ~181 pennies in a pound. Copper is only 2.5% so that is still barely over a half cent in raw materials. Most of the rest of the cost is typical government mismanagement and waste because there is zero motivation for efficiency.


----------



## rickandcindy23

The cost of making a coin doesn't have anything to do with the value of that coin.  The coin is circulated into thousands of hands (unless you collect pennies like I do) in its lifetime.  

I like that we have kept pennies.  I read a lot of historical books where the author refers to the half penny or the pence.  What happened to those?  

Back to the OP.  I think it would be nice if the housekeepers made $15 per hour, but I know they cannot possibly make that much, so I tip.  Anything you give is good.  The housekeepers probably don't expect anything.  

Our 3 kids all delivered newspapers (Rocky Mountain News) for about five years of their childhoods.  They delivered to the front porch, and some people tipped, while most did not.  They made about .08 per day per newspaper delivered on the porch, so when a person paid $2.00 extra, it nearly doubled their income for the month for that particular house.  This was mid-to-late 90's.   

I was a server at a nice sit-down dinner restaurant as a teen, and I loved my tips (I made $1.25 per hour in 1972).  Our kids all worked as servers too.  Here is something no one has said: dinner hour is about two hours where the server is really busy.  The rest of the time, the servers are cleaning the kitchen, cleaning the work station, preparing silverware for future table setting, and even vacuuming and cleaning the restaurant after messy children.  Those are things people don't think about, when it comes to restaurants.  Servers at some restaurants are assigned bathroom cleaning duty, too.  Our daughter worked at LePeep during college, and she had to go in every hour to clean the toilets and the floors, plus clean the countertops.  Yuck!  For $2.15 per hour?  That's horrible.


----------



## Beaglemom3

Pompey Family said:


> . I do find it easier though than the US model where tax is added when you pay, I always get caught out on my first visit to the supermarket.
> 
> .



Re: The supermarket. We do not pay taxes on groceries in Massachusetts. Sundries and non-grocery items are taxed, though.

Your comment piqued my interest, so I Googled it and found that 5 states  tax groceries where others rebate residents (~7) and 31 other states do not...a least as/of 2008 (I could not found newer data on this).

There may be incidental taxes on beer, wine or spirits depending on the state you're buying them in.

_*January 11, 2008
By Gerald Prante .The Tax Foundation is often asked which states exempt certain items from their general sales taxes, especially as they relate to food. The following is a list of the states that do tax groceries, and if applicable, which ones apply a special rate on grocery items. All other states do not tax groceries.

States that tax groceries (rate if not fully taxed): Alabama, Arkansas (3%), Hawaii, Idaho, Illinois (1%), Kansas, Mississippi, Missouri (1.225%), Oklahoma, South Dakota, Tennessee (5.5%), Utah (1.75%), Virginia (1.5% + 1% local option tax), and West Virginia (5%).*_

Addendum:  11/2009:  http://www.cbpp.org/cms/?fa=view&id=1230

-


----------



## csxjohn

Beaglemom3 said:


> Re: The supermarket. We do not pay taxes on groceries in Massachusetts. Sundries and non-grocery items are taxed, though.
> 
> Your comment piqued my interest, so I Googled it and found that 5 states  tax groceries where others rebate residents (~7) and 31 other states do not...a least as/of 2008 (I could not found newer data on this).
> 
> There may be incidental taxes on beer, wine or spirits depending on the state you're buying them in.
> 
> _*January 11, 2008
> By Gerald Prante .The Tax Foundation is often asked which states exempt certain items from their general sales taxes, especially as they relate to food. The following is a list of the states that do tax groceries, and if applicable, which ones apply a special rate on grocery items. All other states do not tax groceries.
> 
> States that tax groceries (rate if not fully taxed): Alabama, Arkansas (3%), Hawaii, Idaho, Illinois (1%), Kansas, Mississippi, Missouri (1.225%), Oklahoma, South Dakota, Tennessee (5.5%), Utah (1.75%), Virginia (1.5% + 1% local option tax), and West Virginia (5%).*_
> 
> Addendum:  11/2009:  http://www.cbpp.org/cms/?fa=view&id=1230
> 
> -



In Ohio, food is not subject to state or local sales tax.  There are some exceptions.  If you eat food on the premisis where it's bought, you pay the tax.

Soda pop is taxed even when taken out.


----------



## Beaglemom3

csxjohn said:


> Soda pop is taxed even when taken out.



Very interesting.
No wonder Pompey is surprised !


----------



## rickandcindy23

Some cities do charge sales tax on food.  Our state doesn't charge, but cities impose tax.  Sometimes it is in our best interest to go a few extra miles to shop for groceries.


----------



## csxjohn

rickandcindy23 said:


> Some cities do charge sales tax on food.  Our state doesn't charge, but cities impose tax.  Sometimes it is in our best interest to go a few extra miles to shop for groceries.



We have a sin tax added for your stadiums and arenas on fags and alcohol, so going 2 miles the other direction, I'm in a different county and don't get that extra tax.

Pa doesn't charge sales tax on clothing and some years we took both daughters to an outlet mall near the border to do all their school clothes shopping.  It was a nice day trip and we did save a lot in those days.


----------



## Pompey Family

Beaglemom3 said:


> Re: The supermarket. We do not pay taxes on groceries in Massachusetts. Sundries and non-grocery items are taxed, though.
> 
> Your comment piqued my interest, so I Googled it and found that 5 states  tax groceries where others rebate residents (~7) and 31 other states do not...a least as/of 2008 (I could not found newer data on this).
> 
> There may be incidental taxes on beer, wine or spirits depending on the state you're buying them in.
> 
> _*January 11, 2008
> By Gerald Prante .The Tax Foundation is often asked which states exempt certain items from their general sales taxes, especially as they relate to food. The following is a list of the states that do tax groceries, and if applicable, which ones apply a special rate on grocery items. All other states do not tax groceries.
> 
> States that tax groceries (rate if not fully taxed): Alabama, Arkansas (3%), Hawaii, Idaho, Illinois (1%), Kansas, Mississippi, Missouri (1.225%), Oklahoma, South Dakota, Tennessee (5.5%), Utah (1.75%), Virginia (1.5% + 1% local option tax), and West Virginia (5%).*_
> 
> Addendum:  11/2009:  http://www.cbpp.org/cms/?fa=view&id=1230
> 
> -



There's usually plenty of beer and wine in the trolley! Of the states that do tax groceries I've bought groceries in Utah and Idaho but it's not just supermarkets, clothes shops etc throw me as well for the first couple of times.


----------



## Beaglemom3

Pompey Family said:


> There's usually plenty of beer and wine in the trolley! Of the states that do tax groceries I've bought groceries in Utah and Idaho but it's not just supermarkets, clothes shops etc throw me as well for the first couple of times.



  Well, then.............. you're visiting the wrong states !

  Come to the dark side............. Boston............... where we don't tax groceries, alchohol (except in restaurants)  or clothing (up to $400).

  Taxachusetts isn't all that bad.  After all, we did dump your taxed tea into the harbor at one point....  :hysterical:

"_The No Sales Tax for Alcohol Question, also known as Question 1, was on the November 2, 2010 ballot in Massachusetts. The measure asked voters whether or not to repeal a sales tax on alcohol sales. The ballot measure for the 2010 ballot was added after the Massachusetts State Legislature increased the sales tax in the state from 5% to 6.25% and eliminated an exemption for alcohol sold in liquor stores.[1][2][3]

The Measure passed with 52% of the vote thereby eliminating the sales tax on alcohol beginning January, 1 2011._"


----------



## Elan

Here in Idaho, we pay 6% sales tax on everything.  Sixty miles away, in Oregon, there's 0% sales tax on everything.


----------



## Beaglemom3

Elan said:


> Here in Idaho, we pay 6% sales tax on everything.  Sixty miles away, in Oregon, there's 0% sales tax on everything.



  Sort of like New Hampshire. That's where many of us/we Massholes go for big ticket items instead of paying 6.25%. We just had our annual tax-free weekend here and the stores were busy.

BTW: If you buy something in N.H. and have it shipped into Mass, the tax will apply. If you drive it home, it doesn't apply.


----------



## Saintsfanfl

csxjohn said:


> In Ohio, food is not subject to state or local sales tax.  There are some exceptions.  If you eat food on the premisis where it's bought, you pay the tax.
> 
> Soda pop is taxed even when taken out.



Florida is the exact same way, including the soda.


----------



## Passepartout

Elan said:


> Here in Idaho, we pay 6% sales tax on everything.  Sixty miles away, in Oregon, there's 0% sales tax on everything.



Not quite *everything*. In Idaho, there is no sales tax on services. Your haircut, the plumber, the housekeeper, my DW's attorney fees all come without sales tax. Resident tax payers get a (iirc) $50 rebate on your tax return called a 'Grocery Tax Credit' that's supposed to lighten the tax load on residents while still gouging (oops, taxing) non-residents. We don't have a 'tax holiday' like Massachusetts designed to help families doing back-to-school shopping.

Jim


----------



## Saintsfanfl

Beaglemom3 said:


> Sort of like New Hampshire. That's where many of us/we Massholes go for big ticket items instead of paying 6.25%. We just had our annual tax-free weekend here and the stores were busy.
> 
> BTW: If you buy something in N.H. and have it shipped into Mass, the tax will apply. If you drive it home, it doesn't apply.



I think if you actually read your tax code you will find your tax free statements to be inaccurate. Whether or not the merchant has the burden to collect the tax does not mean the items are actually tax free. In reality, not self reporting the items is probably tax evasion. The problem states have is with enforcement. There is no realistic way to track it at the average consumer level. But just because the states can't cost effectively track it, does not mean it is legally tax free. It just means you can get away with it with virtually no chance of consequence. A bit like stealing when you know for certain that you will never get caught, but yes, everybody does it.

The reason the shipping doesn't have tax but the driving does is because with shipping the sale counts as where it is shipped to, and the merchant doesn't have nexus to collect tax in that state. These rules are quickly changing because the states are losing billions in revenue due to non-nexus sales. Something has to give so either there is a method of enforcement on the consumer or the merchant is forced to collect the tax. The latter is much more feasible.

EDIT: I didn't mean the tax free weekend.


----------



## Elan

Passepartout said:


> Not quite *everything*. In Idaho, there is no sales tax on services. Your haircut, the plumber, the housekeeper, my DW's attorney fees all come without sales tax. Resident tax payers get a (iirc) $50 rebate on your tax return called a 'Grocery Tax Credit' that's supposed to lighten the tax load on residents while still gouging (oops, taxing) non-residents. We don't have a 'tax holiday' like Massachusetts designed to help families doing back-to-school shopping.
> 
> Jim



  Yeah, you're right.  I never think about services when discussing sales tax.


----------



## Beaglemom3

Saintsfanfl said:


> I think if you actually read your tax code you will find your tax free statements to be inaccurate. Whether or not the merchant has the burden to collect the tax does not mean the items are actually tax free. In reality, not self reporting the items is probably tax evasion. The problem states have is with enforcement. There is no realistic way to track it at the average consumer level. But just because the states can't cost effectively track it, does not mean it is legally tax free. It just means you can get away with it with virtually no chance of consequence. A bit like stealing when you know for certain that you will never get caught, but yes, everybody does it.
> 
> The reason the shipping doesn't have tax but the driving does is because with shipping the sale counts as where it is shipped to, and the merchant doesn't have nexus to collect tax in that state. These rules are quickly changing because the states are losing billions in revenue due to non-nexus sales. Something has to give so either there is a method of enforcement on the consumer or the merchant is forced to collect the tax. The latter is much more feasible.
> 
> EDIT: I didn't mean the tax free weekend.



Have thought about this when I shop at the LL Bean outlet in Nashua. That's the only reason for me to go up there.

Otherwise, we shop in Massachusetts at Hanscom AFB where all is tax free. No need to travel 25 miles when the AFB is about 6 miles away.


----------



## Southpaw

Pompey Family said:


> As for VAT, the UK has a fairly low rate in comparison to most Western European countries although many are around the 20% to 25% mark. I do find it easier though than the US model where tax is added when you pay, I always get caught out on my first visit to the supermarket.
> 
> The Air Passenger Duty tax however makes me fume! I've written to my MP previously to complain about it but that was a waste of time.



I've traveled extensively in VAT countries and also done business there.  IMHO, because you don't see it added on each time you buy something, it is out-of-sight, out-of-mind.  You don't get angry until there is an increase.  

In the US, the sales tax is very much in your face, so it's a constant reminder of how over-taxed we are.  

In your own example, you saw the Air Passenger Duty tax and it encouraged you to write a letter.

It is also costly to administer a VAT because it is collected at each stage in the distribution channel and not just at the end. My understanding is that is the reason VATs are usually higher than sales taxes in the US.


----------



## DeniseM

This thread has been seriously hijacked!


----------



## suzannesimon

Back to the original question:  I always leave $20 tip  per unit per week at MFC, but I leave it for the mid-week Tidy service.  I really feel that is the biggest job because all our belongings are in there and it is that  maid who gives us the biggest service that we see.

My maintenance fees there are pretty high, but I also believe in trickle-down economics (or is it liberal guilt?).  I'm very grateful for the ability to buy the timeshares in the first place.  It is a luxury and I feel I should share something with the person(s) who makes it so pleasant for us.

However, I am not feeling so guilty (or grateful) to tip $3 per person per day.  I have 2 units and 16 of us go for the holidays every year so that comes out to about $336 for the week.  It would be different if we were really getting daily maid service that we didn't have to pay Marriott to get.


----------



## csxjohn

DeniseM said:


> This thread has been seriously hijacked!



I sometimes tip store clerks as well as timeshare housekeeping.  If the taxes aren't too high:hysterical:


----------



## VacationForever

DeniseM said:


> This thread has been seriously hijacked!



Another hijack... the air-con maintenance guy came last week to my home and I gave him a very nice tip since he did a great job.  The week before my dishwasher broke and the service guy came out and I gave him a nice tip as well.  They both accepted the tips gladly.  In both cases they provided exceptional service.


----------



## Beaglemom3

sptung said:


> Another hijack... the air-con maintenance guy came last week to my home and I gave him a very nice tip since he did a great job.  The week before my dishwasher broke and the service guy came out and I gave him a nice tip as well.  They both accepted the tips gladly.  In both cases they provided exceptional service.



  I tipped my USPS guy big-time the year I broke my leg. He was kind enough to deliver my mail and packages to my door when I could not get down the driveway. He was also doing a daily well-being check without me knowing. So many USPS folks do well-being checks on their routes.


----------



## Beaglemom3

DeniseM said:


> This thread has been seriously hijacked!



  Thought about this too and how a conversation can morph into different and related/inter-related topics.

  We've covered tippers, non-tippers (no strippers)  VAT tax, the Boston Tea Party, booze/sin taxes, tax-evading Massholes, minting costs, cruise & tour bus costs plus so much more.


----------



## suzannesimon

I'm sure HVAC techs get paid more than a lot of us timeshare owners!


----------



## Elan

sptung said:


> Another hijack... the air-con maintenance guy came last week to my home and I gave him a very nice tip since he did a great job.  The week before my dishwasher broke and the service guy came out and I gave him a nice tip as well.  They both accepted the tips gladly.  In both cases they provided exceptional service.



  That's how I am.  Do a good job - get a tip.  I don't care if you make more than me, I'll still tip you if you've done good work.


----------



## csxjohn

Beaglemom3 said:


> Thought about this too and how a conversation can morph into different and related/inter-related topics.
> 
> We've covered tippers, non-tippers (no strippers)  VAT tax, the Boston Tea Party, booze/sin taxes, tax-evading Massholes, minting costs, cruise & tour bus costs plus so much more.



Can we talk about tipping strippers?  The last time I went to such a club $1 was a lot of money, probably won't get any extra "show" for that today.


----------



## Pompey Family

Beaglemom3 said:


> Well, then.............. you're visiting the wrong states !
> 
> Come to the dark side............. Boston............... where we don't tax groceries, alchohol (except in restaurants)  or clothing



I intend to, it's my wife's favourite city however I've yet to visit. I'm considering a surprise visit for her birthday next year although it would have to be a long weekend break due to work commitments and childcare.

Does the lack of tax make groceries and alcohol cheaper than neighbouring states or do they simply hike the base price?


----------



## Beaglemom3

csxjohn said:


> Can we talk about tipping strippers?  The last time I went to such a club $1 was a lot of money, probably won't get any extra "show" for that today.



Shown out the door, perhaps.


----------



## Beaglemom3

Pompey Family said:


> I intend to, it's my wife's favourite city however I've yet to visit. I'm considering a surprise visit for her birthday next year although it would have to be a long weekend break due to work commitments and childcare.
> 
> Does the lack of tax make groceries and alcohol cheaper than neighbouring states or do they simply hike the base price?



Well, Boston, being urban, will be more expensive than neighboring towns IMHO.
Parking is extremely expensive in Boston and there is the meal tax in Massachusetts.
Each state has its high and low points, tax and price wise.

It's like having a meal in London and one in Portsmouth. I always enjoy my meals at the Custom House in Portsmouth as the fish & chips are wonderful and the Pimm's No. 1 are great  and the price is very right.

ETA: A lot has to do with overhead, I'd say,  amongst other variables.


----------



## mdurette

Beaglemom3 said:


> Sort of like New Hampshire. That's where many of us/we Massholes go for big ticket items instead of paying 6.25%. We just had our annual tax-free weekend here and the stores were busy.
> 
> BTW: If you buy something in N.H. and have it shipped into Mass, the tax will apply. If you drive it home, it doesn't apply.




Big ticket items......heck, I go across state lines just to stock my bar!

Another secret I learned is cell phones.  Example:   If you go to Verizon and get a new iphone  in MA they charge you sales tax on the full retail price of the phone instead of the discounted price you pay.   Go to a Verizon store in NH and pay non of it.    My boss did this when he went to upgrade his entire families phones - saved him a couple hundred dollars!


----------



## Pompey Family

Beaglemom3 said:


> Well, Boston, being urban, will be more expensive than neighboring towns IMHO.
> Parking is extremely expensive in Boston and there is the meal tax in Massachusetts.
> Each state has its high and low points, tax and price wise.
> 
> It's like having a meal in London and one in Portsmouth. I always enjoy my meals at the Custom House in Portsmouth as the fish & chips are wonderful and the Pimm's No. 1 are great  and the price is very right.



If you're passing through Portsmouth again I would really recommend Abarbistro, a five minute walk from Gunwharf Quays where the food far surpasses anything in Gunwharf, it's also included in the Michelin guide. For example, the custom house offers two courses for £18 of which fish and chips could be one course yet in Abarbistro you can have moules marineres followed by fish and chips for less and it is so much better.


----------



## vacationhopeful

Okay - Delaware is the state of buying stuff by the truck (like my pickup truck). My bridge toll is $5 one way (getting out of my state, it costs money on this ISLAND) -- all 3 neighboring states charge the BRIDGE TOLL to LEAVE this state.

So, as long as I am buying $100 or more of stuff (washer, stove, furniture, TV, computers) - driving the 12 mile to the Delaware State Line pays over what the bridge toll is. By the way, in my area, there are FEW local stores who sell BIG TICKET ITEMS - no market. 

Food and clothing is NOT TAXED. Our gasoline is cheaper. Our income tax is less. Our property taxes are higher.


----------



## Beaglemom3

vacationhopeful said:


> Okay - Delaware is the state of buying stuff by the truck (like my pickup truck). My bridge toll is $5 one way (getting out of my state, it costs money on this ISLAND) -- all 3 neighboring states charge the BRIDGE TOLL to LEAVE this state.
> 
> So, as long as I am buying $100 or more of stuff (washer, stove, furniture, TV, computers) - driving the 12 mile to the Delaware State Line pays over what the bridge toll is. By the way, in my area, there are FEW local stores who sell BIG TICKET ITEMS - no market.
> 
> Food and clothing is NOT TAXED. Our gasoline is cheaper. Our income tax is less. Our property taxes are higher.



 Yep, I understand, much like Massachusetts, but you don't have to pay that much to get out ! 
  In the end, mostly offsetting penalties all around is what I think I'm seeing when we compare states.


----------



## Squan66

We only get a mid week tidy at the Marriott Aruba Surf Club.  I leave $20.00.  They often do more than a tidy when we leave a nice tip.  I also leave another $20.00 when we leave at the end of the week.


----------



## csxjohn

Squan66 said:


> ...  I also leave another $20.00 when we leave at the end of the week.



I'm glad to see that many others here realize that just because you don't see the people who initially clean your room for your stay, it's not done by Fairies using pixie dust.

Humans are doing this work and just because you don't see them do it shouldn't matter.

BTW I tipped the busboy today at a local restaurant.  He was constantly on the move clearing dishes, wrapping silverware, making new set ups and cleaning that I had a hard time getting his attention.  He thanked me twice for the tip.  I'm glad for the opportunity to help him out.


----------



## am1

csxjohn said:


> I'm glad to see that many others here realize that just because you don't see the people who initially clean your room for your stay, it's not done by Fairies using pixie dust.
> 
> Humans are doing this work and just because you don't see them do it shouldn't matter.
> 
> BTW I tipped the busboy today at a local restaurant.  He was constantly on the move clearing dishes, wrapping silverware, making new set ups and cleaning that I had a hard time getting his attention.  He thanked me twice for the tip.  I'm glad for the opportunity to help him out.



That is great.  But would it not  be even better if his employer compensated him for his work?


----------



## rgrisard

Wow.  Sorry to start such a controversial post.   Just to follow up, I always leave $20 at Marriott TS in the states and an additional $10 for the mid week tidy @ Marriott's in the Caribbean.


----------



## csxjohn

am1 said:


> That is great.  But would it not  be even better if his employer compensated him for his work?



He may be getting a decent hourly wage, I don't know and it didn't matter, I wanted to show him that I appreciate his hard work in making it a nice place to eat.


----------



## Beaglemom3

rgrisard said:


> Wow.  Sorry to start such a controversial post.   Just to follow up, I always leave $20 at Marriott TS in the states and an additional $10 for the mid week tidy @ Marriott's in the Caribbean.



Naaaahhh, this is how we mostly behave.   

It was a "spirited" conversation and a lot of shared info came out.

Glad you started the thread.

P.S. I'm with you !


----------



## csxjohn

Beaglemom3 said:


> Naaaahhh, this is how we mostly behave.
> 
> It was a "spirited" conversation and a lot of shared info came out.
> 
> Glad you started the thread.
> 
> P.S. I'm with you !



+1

Any time a thread is active this long, has over 3,500 views and 133 posts, it's a good thread.  

It shows a lot of users have a lot to say about the subject and others who don't post are interested in what's being said.


----------



## Beaglemom3

csxjohn said:


> He may be getting a decent hourly wage, I don't know and it didn't matter, I wanted to show him that I appreciate his hard work in making it a nice place to eat.



+1

This sums it up for me, too.



-


----------



## Saintsfanfl

I think the thread has generated so much traffic because tipping a hotel housekeeper is not actually the "norm". Those that always tip are the more vocal ones in the thread. Statistically speaking the majority of tuggers probably never tip, but are too shy or embarrassed to admit it in the thread. Only 30% of all US hotel travelers leave a tip. I would think it is even less with timeshares where no mid week service is utilized. 

Most industry analysts believe a tip should be left but it's not something someone thinks about because 1) You cannot tack it onto the bill and 2) You may never see the maid, especially when you are checking out.


----------



## Beaglemom3

Interesting poll from Marriott Rewards Insiders:

http://www.rewards-insiders.marriott.com/polls/1252






-








-


----------



## csxjohn

Saintsfanfl said:


> I think the thread has generated so much traffic because tipping a hotel housekeeper is not actually the "norm". Those that always tip are the more vocal ones in the thread. Statistically speaking the majority of tuggers probably never tip, but are too shy or embarrassed to admit it in the thread. Only 30% of all US hotel travelers leave a tip. I would think it is even less with timeshares where no mid week service is utilized.
> 
> Most industry analysts believe a tip should be left but it's not something someone thinks about because 1) You cannot tack it onto the bill and 2) You may never see the maid, especially when you are checking out.



I don't think anyone should be embarrassed to admit they don't tip housekeeping during TS stays.

When I first started timesharing I did not tip them, I never thought about it until one day we stayed at a motel on the way to a TS and as always left a tip for the maid.

When I got to the TS it dawned on me that the situation is exactly the same.  Someone cleaned the room before I got there and someone will clean it when I leave just like the motel.  On that day, that habit changed.


----------



## csxjohn

Beaglemom3 said:


> Interesting poll from Marriott Rewards Insiders:
> 
> http://www.rewards-insiders.marriott.com/polls/1252
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -



I'd like to see a poll to see if the TUG community is the same as the national average.


----------



## rapmarks

I am wondering do you tip a cleaning lady, who is in business for herself?  I only have one occasionally and always gave her an extra ten, but others said no not if her own business.

At a timeshare, I only tip if mid week cleaning, or if the unit was heavily used.


----------



## csxjohn

rapmarks said:


> I am wondering do you tip a cleaning lady, who is in business for herself?  I only have one occasionally and always gave her an extra ten, but others said no not if her own business.
> 
> At a timeshare, I only tip if mid week cleaning, or if the unit was heavily used.



That is a good question.  I never have had a cleaning person come in but knowing that that person gets the whole amount charged, I think it would depend on two things, at least for me.

How much is she charging to begin with and how good a job she did.  

I have had people in to do odd jobs and have given them more than they ask for because what they wanted was way too low in my mind for what they did for me.


----------



## SueDonJ

csxjohn said:


> I'd like to see a poll to see if the TUG community is the same as the national average.



Poll added, and thread moved to the Travel Info board.


----------



## presley

Poll, chose Other.  It is normal that I tip always, however, there are times when I've had such terrible service or a not stocked/not well cleaned room, that I haven't left a tip.  Then, there are times when I left and on the way home remembered that I didn't leave a tip.....


----------



## Rent_Share

Wyndham charges a hefty fee for a second housekeeping, if I choose to stay in more than one property with my annual allocation of points

You get no service like you do in a hotel, the housekeeping is paid for through my homeowners fees

BTW I do not tip hotel maids, since their cost is built into the hotel rate.

 Food service is different since there is face to face interaction and a bad server can make a good meal awful


----------



## Saintsfanfl

Rent_Share said:


> BTW I do not tip hotel maids, since their cost is built into the hotel rate.



This is why there has always been so much debate. They are not legally considered a tipped employee, meaning they cannot legally earn the lower base tip minimum wage and are not required to report tips on an ongoing basis to their employer (but are legally required, as is everyone, to report tips as earned wages).

Think about this for a minute. The IRS requires any employee who receives $20 in a calendar month to report their tips to their employer for payroll purposes, but there is no pressure on hotel maids and they almost never report. In other words the IRS does not believe hotel maids receive more than $20 in tips, for a whole month!

Certainly they receive more than $20 per month but not enough to fall on the IRS radar for reporting or being classified as a tip employee.

Bell-hops, who are required to report tips, earn about the same average per hour as the housekeepers (including tips), who are not reporting their tips. Bell-hops as a whole under report, as do all who are required, and maids do not report at all. It's tough to say who really earns more but it's probably close.


----------



## PigsDad

rickandcindy23 said:


> I would never expect anyone to clean up anything after me without leaving a tip.  $20 is a nice tip.


Even if that was their job? 

I guess I just don't understand that train of thought.  If it is your JOB to change sheets and towels, vacuum the floors and clean the kitchen, why is a tip expected?  IMO, tips should be for service above and beyond the basic job requirements.

For example, we have a housecleaner that cleans our house every two weeks.  She set the price that she charges to do that JOB.  We pay her for doing that JOB.  We don't tip her when she does her JOB.

Kurt


----------



## Saintsfanfl

PigsDad said:


> Even if that was their job?
> 
> I guess I just don't understand that train of thought.  If it is your JOB to change sheets and towels, vacuum the floors and clean the kitchen, why is a tip expected?  IMO, tips should be for service above and beyond the basic job requirements.
> 
> For example, we have a housecleaner that cleans our house every two weeks.  She set the price that she charges to do that JOB.  We pay her for doing that JOB.  We don't tip her when she does her JOB.
> 
> Kurt



And they get a base wage based on zero expected tips. This is why I said from the beginning that it is a gift and not really a tip. As much as articles and travel industry professionals have tried to change the standards, it is not and never has been a legally tipped labor position.

The closest is on cruise ships where it has been fairly standard. But now that cruise lines are auto adding the tips, and the IRS changing the rules on service charges, it's no longer a tipped position at all.


----------



## Blues

Saintsfanfl said:


> I think if you actually read your tax code you will find your tax free statements to be inaccurate. Whether or not the merchant has the burden to collect the tax does not mean the items are actually tax free. In reality, not self reporting the items is probably tax evasion.



I'm not normally a scofflaw (except for speed limits, but let's not have yet another hijack  ).  But I have to admit that when I do my yearly taxes via TurboTax, and I reach the screen in the California state tax section that requests we self-report internet and out-of-state purchases, I always have a nice little chuckle before I hit "next".

I'm not sure why, but I have a great aversion to the concept that we owe taxes in those cases.  Yes, I recognize that it's the law.  But it feels unjust, and I've never examined the reasons why I feel that way.  But apparently the vast majority of Americans feel the same way.

It's well known that laws with very low compliance rates typically are not only impossible to enforce, they also tend to foster greater disdain for laws in general.  Therefore, most legislatures will try to avoid very unpopular laws.  I believe that the current trend toward trying to collect sales taxes across state lines and from internet purchases is doomed and misguided.  These efforts will eventually be repealed.  JMHO.

-Bob


----------



## Ron98GT

rgrisard said:


> Wow.  Sorry to start such a controversial post.   Just to follow up, I always leave $20 at Marriott TS in the states and an additional $10 for the mid week tidy @ Marriott's in the Caribbean.



Hawaii is a state & we've always had a midweek tidy?

Our usual dilemma, be it hotel or TS, is that we have one maid all week and the day we go to check out & give them a tip, they are off and someone new is cleaning rooms. I know, I know, give them their tip sooner, but we don't, maybe we'll learn.


----------



## Ron98GT

*NO, because services are not provided during a stay.*

I noticed that some people responded Yes to the following:

"NO, because services are not provided during a stay. "

I haven't stayed in a TS where services weren't provided, are there any?


----------



## presley

Ron98GT said:


> I haven't stayed in a TS where services weren't provided, are there any?



I think that is meant to mean you only get a clean room when you check in and nothing else during your stay, unless you have a special request.  I've only been to 2 resorts that did that, both were Marriotts.


----------



## csxjohn

Ron98GT said:


> I noticed that some people responded Yes to the following:
> 
> "NO, because services are not provided during a stay. "
> 
> I haven't stayed in a TS where services weren't provided, are there any?



Many TSs do not provied housekeeping service during your stay.  They all of course provide it after each stay.


----------



## Saintsfanfl

Blues said:


> It's well known that laws with very low compliance rates typically are not only impossible to enforce, they also tend to foster greater disdain for laws in general.  Therefore, most legislatures will try to avoid very unpopular laws.  I believe that the current trend toward trying to collect sales taxes across state lines and from internet purchases is doomed and misguided.  These efforts will eventually be repealed.



Once it is in place for out of state merchants to collect they have as much chance of being repealed as the sales tax as a whole. Which is to say, not a chance. Companies with nexus in the state already have to collect. This is any company that has any presence in the state whether it is an employee, assets, or a traveling salesman or technician that may only occasionally visit the state. It will take some state to state cooperation in order to properly enforce it but it is only a matter of time.

Look at it this way, when you order something on Amazon and you are charged tax, you accept it and complete the order. Once all online orders are charged tax I don't think the voting public is going to care too much. It will just be accepted as part of life.

As far as your tax return goes, how is it any more unjust than any other type of tax? To me it just seems that if someone knows that there is zero chance of repercussions, then not paying extra is the easy choice. If we were given a consequence free choice on all the other taxes I think most of us would chuckle and say "no thanks" on those as well.


----------



## Ron98GT

csxjohn said:


> Many TSs do not provied housekeeping service during your stay.  They all of course provide it after each stay.


Guess I haven't been to any of those, yet, that I know of.  House keeping/maids have always been very helpful.  Even when we stay at TS's that are only suppose to provide a midweek tidy, they still ask every day if we need any thing: towels soap, etc.


----------



## presley

Saintsfanfl said:


> As far as your tax return goes, how is it any more unjust than any other type of tax?



For me the annoying part is that if I buy something from another state online, it would cost me less if I paid their sales tax than my own.  So, I would rather be charged sales tax for Georgia or wherever than be expected to pay California sales tax.  It feels like a punishment for buying something from out of state.


----------



## mbh

*We do*

I always leave $20 after a time share stay as long as the unit was clean when we checked in. They are cleaning after we have stayed a week, and I assure you they are not being paid high wages


----------



## matbec

*We do as well*



mbh said:


> I always leave $20 after a time share stay as long as the unit was clean when we checked in. They are cleaning after we have stayed a week, and I assure you they are not being paid high wages



We've been TS'ing for about 10years now and we've (almost) always left a tip for housekeeping, usually $20 per week. There is only 1 time that we didn't, but that was because we were rushing to leave to catch a flight. I finally remembered when we were on the plane and felt guilty. That particular time the housekeeping staff had been very responsive in bringing extra towels and had also done a mid-week tidy. 

When we were in NYC this past spring, we tipped everyone (or just about) - the limo service greeter at the airport, the porters, a daily tip for housekeeping, the doorman who whistled down cabs for us, the tour guides. The only ones we didn't tip were the limo drivers themselves since the service already had a gratuity built-in when I arranged for it. 

And speaking of built-in gratuities, the spa at the Westin automatically adds a 20% gratuity for all services.


----------



## K2Quick

I'm a bigger cheapskate than I thought.  To me $20 is excessive.  The room is only cleaned once in advance of my stay and takes probably an hour to 90 minutes.  I don't think I should be subsidizing wages to the extent of $13 - $20 per hour.


----------



## suzannesimon

I was told at MFC that the 3 bedrooms take 5 hours to clean.  You're dealing with 3 full baths plus the appliances, granite, not to mention 5 beds to change.  When I had a mid week full cleaning done, the maid was there for 3 hours but she didn't have to do the thorough frig cleaning that is done with a turnover.


----------



## csxjohn

suzannesimon said:


> I was told at MFC that the 3 bedrooms take 5 hours to clean.  You're dealing with 3 full baths plus the appliances, granite, not to mention 5 beds to change.  When I had a mid week full cleaning done, the maid was there for 3 hours but she didn't have to do the thorough frig cleaning that is done with a turnover.



Size definitely matters and for me, the larger the unit the larger the tip.


----------



## MuranoJo

In high school I was a waitress during the summers, so maybe that influences me a bit--it was hard work (as is cleaning rooms), and the pay was pathetic.  The bright spot was meeting all those people and I really appreciated the tips.

When I was working and had an expense account, I normally left ~$3 a day in hotels for housekeeping.  I've always done the same  outside of work, sans expense account, and I leave a $3-$5 tip a day, depending on quality of service.  In MX, we receive daily cleaning and a turn-down service at night--I always leave a tip on the kitchen counter before we leave for the day.  I appreciate their hard work, and I know tips are a significant part of their livelihood.

Regarding the policy of employers making up for the shortfall of tips to make minimum wage for employees--sure seems to conjure up some questions.  How do they know how much employees make in tips?  Obviously an honor system, LOL.  Also seems to penalize those employees who really give top-notch service--some of their tips are used to 'top off' the required minimum wage.


----------



## rapmarks

At Christmas Mountain, you pay 80 cleaning fee upon check in to the cottages, they are 600 square feet,  I would bet that most people do not leave an additional tip upon checking out.  I find it hard to believe that a resort is taking 5 hours to clean a unit, that would mean an entire crew per unit to get it done in time for the next check in.


----------



## Tia

muranojo said:


> In high school I was a waitress during the summers, so maybe that influences me a bit--it was hard work (as is cleaning rooms), and the pay was pathetic. .....




From those I actually know it's the people who have actually done the job that I know who are the best tippers, or their parents who have heard the stories.  It's because they know/understand so tip better. 

It has been embarrassing to be with poor tippers, we have checked after everyone leaves the table and left more in the folder. My mother told me of those who thought someone in the party left too much tip so took part of the tip $  left on the table! This was someone who could well afford to tip better then they actually did. After that her tip was always handed to the wait person.


----------



## itchyfeet

For those of you who travel to Mexico, the minimum wage for maids is approximately 88 pesos per day.  (I googled to find this info.)


----------



## klpca

Tia said:


> From those I actually know it's the people who have actually done the job that I know who are the best tippers, or their parents who have heard the stories.  It's because they know/understand so tip better.
> 
> It has been embarrassing to be with poor tippers, we have checked after everyone leaves the table and left more in the folder. My mother told me of those who thought someone in the party left too much tip so took part of the tip $  left on the table! This was someone who could well afford to tip better then they actually did. After that her tip was always handed to the wait person.



I have a family member who still thinks that 10% is a generous tip. One of us goes back after we've left the restaurant to "get something we left at the table". We fix the tip then. It is not worth arguing about it with them. It is just a generational thing.

I used to clean houses and office buildings during high school and college. That has definitely altered my thinking about tipping. I had to deal with some pretty weird things. People can be gross.


----------



## Beaglemom3

Tia said:


> From those I actually know it's the people who have actually done the job that I know who are the best tippers, or their parents who have heard the stories.  It's because they know/understand so tip better.
> 
> It has been embarrassing to be with poor tippers, we have checked after everyone leaves the table and left more in the folder. My mother told me of those who thought someone in the party left too much tip so took part of the tip $  left on the table! This was someone who could well afford to tip better then they actually did. After that her tip was always handed to the wait person.





klpca said:


> I have a family member who still thinks that 10% is a generous tip. One of us goes back after we've left the restaurant to "get something we left at the table". We fix the tip then. It is not worth arguing about it with them. It is just a generational thing.
> 
> I used to clean houses and office buildings during high school and college. That has definitely altered my thinking about tipping. I had to deal with some pretty weird things. People can be gross.





Oh boy, we must be related.

This is my M.O., too......  "I just want to check to see if I dropped something at the table..... be right back".  I always carry an array of paper money when I go out with certain people. You're right, it's just not worth having the discussion with them.



-


----------



## LisaRex

Whenever I travel, I bring $100 in singles and fives for the explicit purpose of tipping because it seems everytime you turn around you have to tip someone.  I mean, after parking in the long-term airport parking lot, we tip the parking lot shuttle driver for handling our bags, then the porter at the airport (if we use one), then the car rental shuttle driver when we arrive, then the valet, then the bellman...then I invariably have to tip housekeeping for something that should have been stocked in the room that wasn't (e.g. towels*), then of course, the bartender when I finally pony up to the bar to get my first Painkiller...And that's just on the first day!

As far as TS housekeeping, I usually tip $20 for the week, unless I leave without tidying up or emptying the dishwasher, etc., in which case I'll leave an extra $10.  If we bring another couple, the maid also gets whatever they leave.  

*I tip $5 for special trips, such as extra towels, but the last few times I've been at TSs, it wasn't because they went above and beyond the call of duty so much as the TS wasn't stocked properly. And I have to say, that I do wonder at the wisdom of doing this, because it rather encourages the staff to not stock the rooms adequately. 

For instance, the first time I was at Westin St John, I tipped $5 to the housekeeper who brought up light bulbs... because the bathroom had no working lights at all, a second $5 for maintenance guy to come fix the broken ice maker, then another $5 (twice) for ice to be brought up because the "fixed" ice maker started to leak all over the place.

At WKORV, I paid $5 to 2 separate housekeepers to bring up a working iron, but refused to pay again when on trip #3, when they brought us back the one we returned in Round 1.


----------



## NYFLTRAVELER

1950bing said:


> $20 is half a tank of gas!!!!!!!!



I can only wish....... Where do you get your gas?


----------



## am1

LisaRex said:


> For instance, the first time I was at Westin St John, I tipped $5 to the housekeeper who brought up light bulbs... because the bathroom had no working lights at all, a second $5 for maintenance guy to come fix the broken ice maker, then another $5 (twice) for ice to be brought up because the "fixed" ice maker started to leak all over the place.
> 
> At WKORV, I paid $5 to 2 separate housekeepers to bring up a working iron, but refused to pay again when on trip #3, when they brought us back the one we returned in Round 1.



I would not have accepted those tips/charity.  If you are okay with that great but to me it just encourages poor initial service which you caution.


----------



## CarolF

The OP enquired about the Marriott at surfwatch so I'm assuming most people are answering the poll based on Marriott timeshares in the* USA*??  

What do you do when you go to a Marriott timeshare abroad?   Do you follow  American customs because it is an American branded hotel or do you acknowledge local customs and adjust your behaviour to accommodate local culture and norms?


----------



## suzannesimon

I tip the same way whether I'm in Aruba, St. Thomas, the Bahamas, Mexico or mainland US.  I never considered doing anything else.  All those areas have a majority of Americans as their customers and I rarely go anywhere that is more exotic.


----------



## csxjohn

CarolF said:


> The OP enquired about the Marriott at surfwatch so I'm assuming most people are answering the poll based on Marriott timeshares in the* USA*??



Since this thread is in the "travel info" forum I'm pretty sure your assumptions are not correct.  The poll is not Marriott specific.


----------



## ondeadlin

I tip a minimum of 20 percent in food and drink situations.

I don't tip at all in hotels and timeshares unless I receive exceptional service.  

Why the disparity?  Because wait staff are specifically paid less in hourly wages under our laws with the assumption they will be tipped.  There is no similar expectation with cleaning staff.  The suggestions that one is somehow obligated to raise a cleaning staff's pay because they're not paid "enough" strikes me as quite odd.  There are a lot of people in my life who I think should be paid more.   Teachers, for example, are ridiculously underpaid, but we don't tip them.


----------



## rapmarks

ondeadlin said:


> I tip a minimum of 20 percent in food and drink situations.
> 
> I don't tip at all in hotels and timeshares unless I receive exceptional service.
> 
> Why the disparity?  Because wait staff are specifically paid less in hourly wages under our laws with the assumption they will be tipped.  There is no similar expectation with cleaning staff.  The suggestions that one is somehow obligated to raise a cleaning staff's pay because they're not paid "enough" strikes me as quite odd.  There are a lot of people in my life who I think should be paid more.   Teachers, for example, are ridiculously underpaid, but we don't tip them.



I think I agree with this statement, I do leave something for a mid week cleaning, which I don't get very often.


----------



## Doogie

*Tipping*

Not sure about others, but I would prefer if employers of these service staff would pay livable wages and increase their prices accordingly.  I don't feel these people should have to rely on tips to pay for thie groceries and other living expenses.  Tips could go back to being a special thank you for great service and considered a bonus.  Just think of all the other places where you are provided a service and don't think about tipping.

Some restaurants seem to be taking advantage of the tipping.  Some friends of ours have children working in chain restaurants while going to university.  Apparently the servers are charged 45% of a standard 15% tip.  This money is kept by the house.  The remaining 55% is split by the server! busboy, cooks, etc.  if the customer doesn't tip 15%, then the server needs to subsidize the houses portion.  I understand that the house has some costs related to the credit card charges related to the tips, but taking 45% is excessive.y


----------



## Passepartout

Doogie said:


> Not sure about others, but I would prefer if employers of these service staff would pay livable wages and increase their prices accordingly.



Wishful thinking does not reflect the reality. Tipping shows that we appreciate the work that goes into making our visits to the (timeshare/hotel/restaurant) pleasurable.

That our tips in are in effect a subsidy for cheapskate employers to hold wages and expenses down under the pretext of providing low prices is simply fallacy.

Jim


----------



## CarolF

csxjohn said:


> Since this thread is in the "travel info" forum I'm pretty sure your assumptions are not correct.  The poll is not Marriott specific.



Thanks John, I forgot that the thread was moved.

My answer is "other" - I would never automatically tip housekeeping unless I was very sure it was local custom.  There are a lot of places where it is exceptionally rude and insulting to give a tip to anyone.  Many cultures do not like to be given money as a thank you, even if the people are very poor and receiving very low wages.  In Asia, bringing shame to a person (allowing them to 'lose face') is a nasty thing to do and can make their life more difficult.  

If local etiquette allows me to give praise for a job well done, I make sure I give it.  When singling someone out with praise is rude, I pack school supplies - books, paper, pens, scissors etc and give them a gift for the children which is always greatly appreciated.  It would be nice to be able to give a tip sometimes because it requires less thought and work.


----------



## VegasBella

Threads about tipping are always heated, no matter the forum. Why? Most of the time this is pretty cash, emphasis on petty. 

For those of you in the no tipping camp, do you do anything generous at all for your housekeepers? For example, do you leave any unopened canned or boxed food? 

When I was a teen I worked as a motel maid at an extended stay motel. Fewer than 50% of people tipped. They tipped very little (handful of change, a dollar or two). I was always grateful. It was usually lunch money. If no one tipped that day I didn't eat lunch. Sometimes people left unopened food and I'd take it and share with the other maids. Opened food went into the trash but unopened was fair game. Every now and then I'd find books. No one ever came back for a lost book. I'd read some of them. One man came to stay every few weeks and he'd bake us biscotti. It was so unusual and kind. He'd put it in a bowl with a note "for the maids." That was my favorite.


----------



## csxjohn

VegasBella said:


> Threads about tipping are always heated, no matter the forum. Why? Most of the time this is pretty cash, emphasis on petty.
> 
> For those of you in the no tipping camp, do you do anything generous at all for your housekeepers? For example, do you leave any unopened canned or boxed food?
> 
> When I was a teen I worked as a motel maid at an extended stay motel. Fewer than 50% of people tipped. They tipped very little (handful of change, a dollar or two). I was always grateful. It was usually lunch money. If no one tipped that day I didn't eat lunch. Sometimes people left unopened food and I'd take it and share with the other maids. Opened food went into the trash but unopened was fair game. Every now and then I'd find books. No one ever came back for a lost book. I'd read some of them. One man came to stay every few weeks and he'd bake us biscotti. It was so unusual and kind. He'd put it in a bowl with a note "for the maids." That was my favorite.



I haven't found this thread heated at all.

Some people tip, some don't and at least here I don't see anyone trying to convince the other camp they are wrong.  Everyone just giving their reasons and experiences.

The poll does show that TUGgers are way above the average by a ton according to those who have responded so far.


----------



## hvsteve1

Whether I tip depends on the timeshare.

In some, such as Marriott and a few years ago at Peppertree, it was apparent that the same housekeeper was coming around to take care of a group of units.  We also got service once during the week.  If I know there is a particular person taking care of the unit, I leave some sort of tip, not based on length of stay (as the unit does not get daily care) but as I would leave in a hotel.

In other timeshares, such as my home resort, move-out day sees trucks show up and van loads of housekeepers.  I also note that they have a team system where one comes in a grabs the old linens, another comes to do the floors and somebody else turns up to make up the unit.  I don't think this kind of crew expects a tip and, also, if I did leave one, who would get it?  The first guy in to pick up the linens?  The floor cleaner? The one who makes the place up? So I leave nothing and don't feel guilty about it as it is an outside cleaning service.


----------



## NYFLTRAVELER

We always tip at a hotel or TS, I think $20 for a week is fair and the right thing to do. However, I do respect the counter argument of those against tipping as if you think about it your annual maintenance fee (MF) goes to the upkeep of the resort including the rooms and you are paying the equivalent of say $1000-$2000 for a weeks use of a neat clean and tidy room and resort.


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## Saintsfanfl

csxjohn said:


> The poll does show that TUGgers are way above the average by a ton according to those who have responded so far.



I'm not so sure it's that much higher. 43.62% tip regardless of service. The hotel national average is 30-35% of hotel stays. 45% of all U.S. hotel stays are single night with no maid service. Some multi-night stays opt for no service. Tug members might be higher but not by a ton.


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## Ballen0351

I've never even thought about tipping at a time share or hotel. Which is strange because I'm a big tipper almost always I leave 25% or more at times at restaurants and bars.  I guess I've never really seen a house keeper so I never thought about leaving a tip.  If they come it's usually when we are out and that's rare because they usually don't come during our stay at a timeshare.


----------



## csxjohn

Saintsfanfl said:


> I'm not so sure it's that much higher. 43.62% tip regardless of service. The hotel national average is 30-35% of hotel stays. 45% of all U.S. hotel stays are single night with no maid service. Some multi-night stays opt for no service. Tug members might be higher but not by a ton.



Only 30% in the poll say they do not leave a tip.  So about 70% do.


----------



## bobby

We pay a decent maintenance fee to cover the cleaning and linen at our home resorts so no tips should be needed when we use our or others' timeshares. Owners maintenance fees should cover services except at places that really do function as hotels.


----------



## rapmarks

do you tip the people that do the activities?  They are probably being paid less than the cleaning staff.


----------



## vacationhopeful

rapmarks said:


> do you tip the people that do the activities?  They are probably being paid less than the cleaning staff.



When my sister and I did a vacation together several years ago with her 3 sons over the 4th of July holiday ... we tipped the activities girl who was at the resort. We were her ONLY regulars (ok, we were just about HER only guests) and she acted at the bartender, the ice cream Sunday maker, and trivial & bingo caller. She made a trip which might have been _slow,_ a success. The prize for every event was a Free ICE CREAM Sunday ticket ... which the boys seem to win and which we (adults) would_ hold _the FREE TICKET which we could turn back into a FREE BEER. After all each boy could ONLY have 1 ice cream treat a day. I knew in advance the trade in worth of the ice cream ticket ... my sister's eyes truly lite up when I asked her for 2 tickets when it came time to pay for the beers. :rofl: BINGO immediately got a new worth in playing ... the boys got to win and we got FREE BEER.

And so we tipped the Activities Gal! And very well, for all those afternoons at the pool.


----------



## pedro47

My spouse tip housekeeping at a hotel $4 to $5 per day and timeshare housekeeping $20.00 for a week.


----------



## presley

rapmarks said:


> do you tip the people that do the activities?  They are probably being paid less than the cleaning staff.



I'm pretty sure my home resorts don't allow the staff to accept tips.  I know when my husband tried to tip for the champagne they serve at check in, he was told no.  These are GPR, so maybe they use the exchangers daily fees for tips. 

I exchanged into Carlsbad Inn once and they had little comment type cards that you could fill out for any employee and the employee would get $1. for each one.  I filled out plenty during my stay.  The activities staff and housekeeping are excellent over there.  I wish my home GPR locations had the same dollar per card thing.


----------



## rapmarks

my husband works in activities (but he doesn't get paid),  twice someone has tried to tip him, but he has turned it down.  Most employees at the resort make less than the housekeeping staff, it is a shame, they all work two or three jobs.


----------



## presley

rapmarks said:


> my husband works in activities (but he doesn't get paid),  twice someone has tried to tip him, but he has turned it down.  Most employees at the resort make less than the housekeeping staff, it is a shame, they all work two or three jobs.



You bring up a really good point.  A lot of these are seasonal jobs, also.  So, they don't even have job security.  I think I'll bring pre-packaged food/treats for them next time.  If they can put in the break room, maybe they can accept it.


----------



## rapmarks

presley said:


> You bring up a really good point.  A lot of these are seasonal jobs, also.  So, they don't even have job security.  I think I'll bring pre-packaged food/treats for them next time.  If they can put in the break room, maybe they can accept it.



that would have been a treat!


----------



## Beaglemom3

Marriott's new gratuity "program" for hotels:

  "The campaign, called "The Envelope Please," begins this week. Envelopes will be placed in 160,000 rooms in the U.S. and Canada. Some 750 to 1,000 hotels will participate from Marriott brands like Courtyard, Residence Inn, J.W. Marriott, Ritz-Carlton and Renaissance hotels.

The name of the person who cleans the room will be written on the envelope along with a message: "Our caring room attendants enjoyed making your stay warm and comfortable. Please feel free to leave a gratuity to express your appreciation for their efforts."

Shriver, who founded an organization called A Woman's Nation that aims to empower women, says many travelers don't realize tipping hotel room attendants is customary. "There's a huge education of the traveler that needs to occur," she said. "If you tell them, they ask, 'How do I do that?'" She said envelopes make it easy for guests to leave cash for the right person in a secure way.

So how much should you leave? Marriott International CEO Arne Sorenson says $1 to $5 per night, depending on room rate, with more for a high-priced suite."

News articles:

http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/envelopes-marriott-hotels-invite-tips-maids-25503553

http://www.dailyfinance.com/2014/09/15/marriott-tipping-hotel-maids-wages/


----------



## amycurl

And here's the link to the Marketplace story:
http://www.marketplace.org/topics/world/do-you-tip-hotel-housekeepers#.VBcD1iQuIgM.twitter

Good comments, too, on Marketplace's FB page:


----------



## Ironwood

On the subject of tipping, I was agast in a chain restaurant a while ago, when the server using a hand held POS terminal advanced the screen to 20% tip 'confirm...yes or no' then handed it to me.  She wasn't even the server who originally looked after us.  Our original server was working in another section when I asked for the bill.   I backed it out and in put a dollar figure.  But how cheeky was that!


----------



## spirits

*Well, I leave money and take treats*

The last few years I have been leaving 15-20 dollars if the mid week cleaning was well done and if the unit was clean and well stocked when we checked in.We have been going to the same resort for the last 10 years, the last 5 years for 3 weekly visits a year.  
We have gotten to know the staff very well(yes there are a couple who are long timers, including the manager) and they are wonderful to us.
Sometimes my son will come up for the weekend and bring his dog.  We always let the people know he might be coming, but they have never charged us if it is for just a weekend.
I know that as a teacher, I always appreciate a parent coming in and leaving some home made treats for us in the staff room.  Am I well paid, yes, but nothing says appreciation like unasked for treats.
About 7 years ago I brought the front desk staff at my timeshare some Halloween candy that was on sale at the local grocery store.  They were so appreciative that I have been doing something for them every time we go.
It has gotten that I actually plan for their treats the week before and now my husband has to get something from Costco for "The Staff".  If he forgets we stop off at Costco and run in and just buy the one item.
The last time I bought a case of some type of healthy nutribar things. It was full of healthy stuff but still treaty enough.  I have bought a big package of Costco cookies, and even a couple of large jars of cashews.  Something for around $20.  
I think it is the fact that someone is thinking of them as people 
that they appreciate most.
Really, don't all of us appreciate being acknowledged?


----------



## jnbsevy

nakyak1504 said:


> My rule is if you have to ask if you are leaving enough you probably aren't.



That's a good rule. The way I was taught it was _"If you wonder whether you should tip $3 or $4 - always go for $4."_

I tip my mechanic 5-10% on a job well and thoughtfully done, too. That little habit has saved me many hundreds of dollars over the years, and filled my life with soft, warm business instead of the other kind.

At our Mexican timeshare, we always take $100 in US dollar bills to use as thank you tokens, both at the resort and on the economy. Not much to us, but a lot to those who serve us.

Givers Gain.


----------



## 2chuck

*I always leave a tip*

The Housekeepers work so hard to turn the units on check-in day and they are paid so little salary.  I've seen how hard they work when I stay over for a 2nd week and I'm there to witness the check-in day marathon. Whether it's at my home resorts or away, it's very important for me to show my appreciation. Over the years, at most of my 5 T.S. I've come to know the Housekeepers, and they've always taken such good care, even if they aren't required to give frequent service.  I think it's important to compensate for a job well done when I find my unit spotless at check-in.


----------



## qwerty

*Housekeeping tip*



rgrisard said:


> We are checking out of a 3br surfwatch today.   I usually leave $20 tip for housekeeping for my one weeks stay at any timeshare.   Is that enough?



You didn't mention whether or not you rented or used your own T/S, but I still question the need. If you didn't leave a tip, would the housekeeper not do a good job for the next person? When you checked in, did you not expect to have everything to your satisfaction? If not, you probably would have mentioned this to the front desk and hopefully would be responded to. Also if not, did you imagine that maybe the last person did not leave a tip? For me, the bottom line is that I have paid for clean comfortable accommodations that should not require a tip.


----------



## qwerty

2chuck said:


> The Housekeepers work so hard to turn the units on check-in day and they are paid so little salary.  I've seen how hard they work when I stay over for a 2nd week and I'm there to witness the check-in day marathon. Whether it's at my home resorts or away, it's very important for me to show my appreciation. Over the years, at most of my 5 T.S. I've come to know the Housekeepers, and they've always taken such good care, even if they aren't required to give frequent service.  I think it's important to compensate for a job well done when I find my unit spotless at check-in.



Given all that, why don't you just ask your homeowner association to increase the housekeeper's pay. Why would you expect an exchanger to supplement your appreciation for a job well done? I know that when I check in, I expect the unit to be spotless whether or not the previous occupant left a tip.


----------



## qwerty

jnbsevy said:


> That's a good rule. The way I was taught it was _"If you wonder whether you should tip $3 or $4 - always go for $4."_
> 
> I tip my mechanic 5-10% on a job well and thoughtfully done, too. That little habit has saved me many hundreds of dollars over the years, and filled my life with soft, warm business instead of the other kind.
> 
> At our Mexican timeshare, we always take $100 in US dollar bills to use as thank you tokens, both at the resort and on the economy. Not much to us, but a lot to those who serve us.
> 
> Givers Gain.


My response is to wonder what can of service to expect if the person before me did not leave a tip. Will my mechanic not do a good job because of not getting a tip on the previous job? If the previous occupant of your resort unit did not leave a tip but left a mess, what would be your expectation?


----------



## qwerty

spirits said:


> The last few years I have been leaving 15-20 dollars if the mid week cleaning was well done and if the unit was clean and well stocked when we checked in.We have been going to the same resort for the last 10 years, the last 5 years for 3 weekly visits a year.
> We have gotten to know the staff very well(yes there are a couple who are long timers, including the manager) and they are wonderful to us.
> Sometimes my son will come up for the weekend and bring his dog.  We always let the people know he might be coming, but they have never charged us if it is for just a weekend.
> I know that as a teacher, I always appreciate a parent coming in and leaving some home made treats for us in the staff room.  Am I well paid, yes, but nothing says appreciation like unasked for treats.
> About 7 years ago I brought the front desk staff at my timeshare some Halloween candy that was on sale at the local grocery store.  They were so appreciative that I have been doing something for them every time we go.
> It has gotten that I actually plan for their treats the week before and now my husband has to get something from Costco for "The Staff".  If he forgets we stop off at Costco and run in and just buy the one item.
> The last time I bought a case of some type of healthy nutribar things. It was full of healthy stuff but still treaty enough.  I have bought a big package of Costco cookies, and even a couple of large jars of cashews.  Something for around $20.
> I think it is the fact that someone is thinking of them as people
> that they appreciate most.
> Really, don't all of us appreciate being acknowledged?



I believe that good management would acknowledge to all employees how important their job is to the well being of those staying at the resort, whether or not an owner. Those to who you show appreciation undoubtedly appreciative being acknowledged by a small gift but hopefully don't come to expect something extra for doing a good job.


----------



## qwerty

Beaglemom3 said:


> Marriott's new gratuity "program" for hotels:
> 
> "The campaign, called "The Envelope Please," begins this week. Envelopes will be placed in 160,000 rooms in the U.S. and Canada. Some 750 to 1,000 hotels will participate from Marriott brands like Courtyard, Residence Inn, J.W. Marriott, Ritz-Carlton and Renaissance hotels.
> 
> The name of the person who cleans the room will be written on the envelope along with a message: "Our caring room attendants enjoyed making your stay warm and comfortable. Please feel free to leave a gratuity to express your appreciation for their efforts."
> 
> Shriver, who founded an organization called A Woman's Nation that aims to empower women, says many travelers don't realize tipping hotel room attendants is customary. "There's a huge education of the traveler that needs to occur," she said. "If you tell them, they ask, 'How do I do that?'" She said envelopes make it easy for guests to leave cash for the right person in a secure way.
> 
> So how much should you leave? Marriott International CEO Arne Sorenson says $1 to $5 per night, depending on room rate, with more for a high-priced suite."
> 
> News articles:
> 
> http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/envelopes-marriott-hotels-invite-tips-maids-25503553
> 
> http://www.dailyfinance.com/2014/09/15/marriott-tipping-hotel-maids-wages/



When you mention the quote regarding the need to educate many travelers about leaving a tip, I have a few questions. If it is many travelers that you are referring to, why does that mean that they have to do, what I guess would not be very many, that do leave a tip? Also, how do you know that the person that cleaned your room will be the one to clean after you leave?


----------



## qwerty

Beaglemom3 said:


> Marriott's new gratuity "program" for hotels:
> 
> "The campaign, called "The Envelope Please," begins this week. Envelopes will be placed in 160,000 rooms in the U.S. and Canada. Some 750 to 1,000 hotels will participate from Marriott brands like Courtyard, Residence Inn, J.W. Marriott, Ritz-Carlton and Renaissance hotels.
> 
> The name of the person who cleans the room will be written on the envelope along with a message: "Our caring room attendants enjoyed making your stay warm and comfortable. Please feel free to leave a gratuity to express your appreciation for their efforts."
> 
> Shriver, who founded an organization called A Woman's Nation that aims to empower women, says many travelers don't realize tipping hotel room attendants is customary. "There's a huge education of the traveler that needs to occur," she said. "If you tell them, they ask, 'How do I do that?'" She said envelopes make it easy for guests to leave cash for the right person in a secure way.
> 
> So how much should you leave? Marriott International CEO Arne Sorenson says $1 to $5 per night, depending on room rate, with more for a high-priced suite."
> 
> News articles:
> 
> http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/envelopes-marriott-hotels-invite-tips-maids-25503553
> 
> http://www.dailyfinance.com/2014/09/15/marriott-tipping-hotel-maids-wages/



I find it somewhat humorous a billion dollar company like Marriott would try to alleviate the low wages that they pay, by asking those who have already paid for service to leave an additional tip.


----------



## qwerty

presley said:


> I'm pretty sure my home resorts don't allow the staff to accept tips.  I know when my husband tried to tip for the champagne they serve at check in, he was told no.  These are GPR, so maybe they use the exchangers daily fees for tips.
> 
> I exchanged into Carlsbad Inn once and they had little comment type cards that you could fill out for any employee and the employee would get $1. for each one.  I filled out plenty during my stay.  The activities staff and housekeeping are excellent over there.  I wish my home GPR locations had the same dollar per card thing.



Reading this gave me an idea to try out at my home resort. I'll suggest that a bonus be given to the employee mentioned on the comment card that I leave. Because I do interact with some of the employees at my home resort, I try to make sure to recognize their helpfulness.


----------



## Beaglemom3

qwerty said:


> *When you mention the quote regarding the need to educate *many travelers about leaving a tip, I have a few questions. If it is many travelers *that you are referring to*, why does that mean that they have to do, what I guess would not be very many, that do leave a tip? Also, how do you know that the person that cleaned your room will be the one to clean after you leave?



Qwerty -
  I have not "referred to" anyone. I posted an article for viewing. I did not "mention" a quote. I quoted, period.

  Your queries should be directed to the author of the article if you have issues with the information. There should be a "comments" section at the end of the article.

  You may want to acquaint yourself with the multi quote feature here on TUG. 


-


----------



## qwerty

vacationhopeful said:


> When my sister and I did a vacation together several years ago with her 3 sons over the 4th of July holiday ... we tipped the activities girl who was at the resort. We were her ONLY regulars (ok, we were just about HER only guests) and she acted at the bartender, the ice cream Sunday maker, and trivial & bingo caller. She made a trip which might have been _slow,_ a success. The prize for every event was a Free ICE CREAM Sunday ticket ... which the boys seem to win and which we (adults) would_ hold _the FREE TICKET which we could turn back into a FREE BEER. After all each boy could ONLY have 1 ice cream treat a day. I knew in advance the trade in worth of the ice cream ticket ... my sister's eyes truly lite up when I asked her for 2 tickets when it came time to pay for the beers. :rofl: BINGO immediately got a new worth in playing ... the boys got to win and we got FREE BEER.
> 
> And so we tipped the Activities Gal! And very well, for all those afternoons at the pool.



I'm glad that you had a good time and understand why you would want to show your appreciation but did you leave housekeeping a tip?


----------



## qwerty

bobby said:


> We pay a decent maintenance fee to cover the cleaning and linen at our home resorts so no tips should be needed when we use our or others' timeshares. Owners maintenance fees should cover services except at places that really do function as hotels.



I could not have stated this any better! (except, why would you exempt a hotel that you still pay to stay at?)


----------



## qwerty

VegasBella said:


> Threads about tipping are always heated, no matter the forum. Why? Most of the time this is pretty cash, emphasis on petty.
> 
> For those of you in the no tipping camp, do you do anything generous at all for your housekeepers? For example, do you leave any unopened canned or boxed food?
> 
> When I was a teen I worked as a motel maid at an extended stay motel. Fewer than 50% of people tipped. They tipped very little (handful of change, a dollar or two). I was always grateful. It was usually lunch money. If no one tipped that day I didn't eat lunch. Sometimes people left unopened food and I'd take it and share with the other maids. Opened food went into the trash but unopened was fair game. Every now and then I'd find books. No one ever came back for a lost book. I'd read some of them. One man came to stay every few weeks and he'd bake us biscotti. It was so unusual and kind. He'd put it in a bowl with a note "for the maids." That was my favorite.



I cannot think of a reason why a tip for housekeeping would be appropriate. I have paid for my unit to be clean and tidy; no more, no less. We usually stay at least a week, so quite often, we have unopened food that is automatically left behind. I worked in a factory for thirty five years and not once did I receive a tip. P.S. I'm sorry that you did not eat lunch when not receiving a tip but I hope that you do not blame the people who stayed where you worked. Just maybe you should've joined those you work with, to demand higher wages.


----------



## qwerty

Passepartout said:


> Wishful thinking does not reflect the reality. Tipping shows that we appreciate the work that goes into making our visits to the (timeshare/hotel/restaurant) pleasurable.
> 
> That our tips in are in effect a subsidy for cheapskate employers to hold wages and expenses down under the pretext of providing low prices is simply fallacy.
> 
> Jim



I will not argue with someone who would want to leave a tip for housekeeping. I just do not want to leave a tip for housekeeping. I remember that where I lived, tipping at a restaurant was not expected until about fifty years ago. First it was, 5%. Then quickly went to 10% where it stayed for quite a while. Now, of course it is at least 15%. The argument over the past decade has been that inflation was the reason. Of course, inflation alone should have increased the tip amount. But employers soon realized that raising the tip percentage was more palatable to them than raising wages. The minimum wage for waiters and waitresses has not increased for fifty years because employers have somehow convinced their customers to keep giving a higher tip percentage.


----------



## qwerty

LisaRex said:


> Whenever I travel, I bring $100 in singles and fives for the explicit purpose of tipping because it seems everytime you turn around you have to tip someone.  I mean, after parking in the long-term airport parking lot, we tip the parking lot shuttle driver for handling our bags, then the porter at the airport (if we use one), then the car rental shuttle driver when we arrive, then the valet, then the bellman...then I invariably have to tip housekeeping for something that should have been stocked in the room that wasn't (e.g. towels*), then of course, the bartender when I finally pony up to the bar to get my first Painkiller...And that's just on the first day!
> 
> As far as TS housekeeping, I usually tip $20 for the week, unless I leave without tidying up or emptying the dishwasher, etc., in which case I'll leave an extra $10.  If we bring another couple, the maid also gets whatever they leave.
> 
> *I tip $5 for special trips, such as extra towels, but the last few times I've been at TSs, it wasn't because they went above and beyond the call of duty so much as the TS wasn't stocked properly. And I have to say, that I do wonder at the wisdom of doing this, because it rather encourages the staff to not stock the rooms adequately.
> 
> For instance, the first time I was at Westin St John, I tipped $5 to the housekeeper who brought up light bulbs... because the bathroom had no working lights at all, a second $5 for maintenance guy to come fix the broken ice maker, then another $5 (twice) for ice to be brought up because the "fixed" ice maker started to leak all over the place.
> 
> At WKORV, I paid $5 to 2 separate housekeepers to bring up a working iron, but refused to pay again when on trip #3, when they brought us back the one we returned in Round 1.



Which came first? The chicken or the egg? Do you tip because of those that previously tipped? Or will I be forced to now tip for what I should have had in the first place.


----------



## qwerty

klpca said:


> I have a family member who still thinks that 10% is a generous tip. One of us goes back after we've left the restaurant to "get something we left at the table". We fix the tip then. It is not worth arguing about it with them. It is just a generational thing.
> 
> I used to clean houses and office buildings during high school and college. That has definitely altered my thinking about tipping. I had to deal with some pretty weird things. People can be gross.



I know that this is a generational thing when you do not want to argue with someone so much older but just try to imagine that when we were younger, 10% of our restaurant bill was sufficient and appreciated. Now, when we are spending money that we earned at a much lower wage than what you are earning, you expect us to double the tip over and above what inflation would be.


----------



## Ron98GT

qwerty said:


> I cannot think of a reason why a tip for housekeeping would be appropriate. I have paid for my unit to be clean and tidy; no more, no less. We usually stay at least a week, so quite often, we have unopened food that is automatically left behind. I worked in a factory for thirty five years and not once did I receive a tip. P.S. I'm sorry that you did not eat lunch when not receiving a tip but I hope that you do not blame the people who stayed where you worked. Just maybe you should've joined those you work with, to demand higher wages.



 What?  You worked in a factory, not in the service industry.  That's not not a correct rationalization, although it is jealousy, or at least your apparent excuse for not tipping.  It is common practice in this country and other parts of the world (but not all) to leave a tip to service workers, which includes bartenders, car valet, waitress, waiters, room stewards on cruise ships, bell boys (does that sound sexist?), the guys at the car wash that dry your car, your hair dresser or barber, the workers on that dive/tour boat you were on, the cabbie, and yes, even housekeeping. It's not about subsidizing someone's wage, it's about gratitude (hmm: gratitude, gratuity, tip).


A funny post, but long, about tipping.

http://waitbutwhy.com/2014/04/everything-dont-know-tipping.html


If you don't like or believe in tipping, you better stay away from Vegas, it's a big-time tipping town no matter where you go, even in the residential/non-tourist sections of town.


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## Beaglemom3

Ron98GT said:


> What?  You worked in a factory, not in the service industry.  That's not not a correct rationalization, although it is jealousy, or at least your apparent excuse for not tipping.  It is common practice in this country and other parts of the world (but not all) to leave a tip to service workers, which includes bartenders, car valet, waitress, waiters, room stewards on cruise ships, bell boys (does that sound sexist?), the guys at the car wash that dry your car, your hair dresser or barber, the workers on that dive/tour boat you were on, the cabbie, and yes, even housekeeping. It's not about subsidizing someone's wage, it's about gratitude.
> 
> 
> A funny post, but long, about tipping.
> 
> http://waitbutwhy.com/2014/04/everything-dont-know-tipping.html
> 
> 
> If you don't like or believe in tipping, you better stay away from Vegas, it's a big-time tipping town no matter where you go, even in the residential/non-tourist sections of town.





   Bingo !


-


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## qwerty

itchyfeet said:


> For those of you who travel to Mexico, the minimum wage for maids is approximately 88 pesos per day.  (I googled to find this info.)



I don't know what a Peso is worth in USD but isn't the question whether or not to tip the housekeeping staff? I don't know what the staff is being paid at the resort where I'm staying. I figure that if the worker is not doing their job, they may not be working there very long. Because the worker is there, I assume that the pay was agreed upon to do a good job.


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## qwerty

Tia said:


> From those I actually know it's the people who have actually done the job that I know who are the best tippers, or their parents who have heard the stories.  It's because they know/understand so tip better.
> 
> It has been embarrassing to be with poor tippers, we have checked after everyone leaves the table and left more in the folder. My mother told me of those who thought someone in the party left too much tip so took part of the tip $  left on the table! This was someone who could well afford to tip better then they actually did. After that her tip was always handed to the wait person.



I'm not disagreeing but certainly not agreeing with you. I only want to point out that our congress has determined that the wait staff minimum wage is under three dollars an hour with the assumption that restaurant customers will add a tip to bring it up to the current seven plus. By my calculation, a 10% tip would still be in line with the federal minimum wage. Although embarrassed by what you would consider a poor tipper, I would want to ask why you would want to pay someone who brings your food to the table more than the minimum wage.


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## Ron98GT

qwerty said:


> I'm not disagreeing but certainly not agreeing with you. I only want to point out that our congress has determined that the wait staff minimum wage is under three dollars an hour with the assumption that restaurant customers will add a tip to bring it up to the current seven plus. By my calculation, a 10% tip would still be in line with the federal minimum wage. Although embarrassed by what you would consider a poor tipper, I would want to ask why you would want to pay someone who brings your food to the table more than the minimum wage.



I don't think that anybody can dignify that out-of-touch statement/question with an answer. 

It sounds like you think that service workers, including a waitress, is in a class below you.  I pity you and feel sorrow for any service worker that has to work "for" you, because they are in a subservient class to you.


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## qwerty

Ron98GT said:


> What?  You worked in a factory, not in the service industry.  That's not not a correct rationalization, although it is jealousy, or at least your apparent excuse for not tipping.  It is common practice in this country and other parts of the world (but not all) to leave a tip to service workers, which includes bartenders, car valet, waitress, waiters, room stewards on cruise ships, bell boys (does that sound sexist?), the guys at the car wash that dry your car, your hair dresser or barber, the workers on that dive/tour boat you were on, the cabbie, and yes, even housekeeping. It's not about subsidizing someone's wage, it's about gratitude (hmm: gratitude, gratuity, tip).
> 
> 
> A funny post, but long, about tipping.
> 
> http://waitbutwhy.com/2014/04/everything-dont-know-tipping.html
> 
> 
> If you don't like or believe in tipping, you better stay away from Vegas, it's a big-time tipping town no matter where you go, even in the residential/non-tourist sections of town.



Why would you assert that I am jealous. Although I worked in a factory, we were in the service industry. We served our customers! I certainly was grateful that I could provide a service to our customers and did my best to make sure the relationship continued. Also, why would you erroneously assert that I do not tip? I have and do tip when appreciating good service but cleaning and tidying up after we leave a resort or hotel is housekeeping's job that is paid for when you check in. Although your response is long and not the least bit funny but somewhat insulting, you are wrong about tipping especially when referring to waitress and waiters, whose tips are specially assumed to bring wages up to the federal minimum. P.S. I have been to Vegas twice and both times, I am sure that I tipped more than I lost gambling.


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## jean05

Passepartout said:


> Just out of curiosity, where is the 'proper' place to put a housekeeper's tip? I just put it on a dresser, or (in a TS) the kitchen counter, but absent an envelope with the housekeeper's name on it, I wonder. I don't want a housekeeper feeling that any loose change (or currency) left lying about is automatically theirs, but I don't want to stiff them either.
> 
> And on a related note, when you have daily housekeeping, do you tip at the end of the trip? Daily? At the beginning of a stay? What if there are different housekeepers each day?
> 
> I'm honestly with the others that feel that tipping in general has gotten out of hand. It used to be a bonus, *T*o *I*nsure *P*rompt service, or exemplary service, not as entitlement to free the employer from paying employees a competitive, and 'living' wage.
> 
> Jim


I'm not sure what I do is the best, but after 20 plus years in a Caribbean timeshare (2 weeks of 3 bedrooms, 2 weeks of 1 bedroom) I am always delighted to see the same staff mostly from year to year.  I ALWAYS hand the tip to the person receiving it, including getting up early on last day to find the housekeeper.  I tip at the end of each week:  $15 for daily service; $20.00 for mid-week clean and after (or before) cleaning depending on your point of view.  I do add one more tip at the end of the 4 week stay--the Head of Housekeeping who brings us extra towels when we return from the beach, extra pitcher, sees that maintenance brings a working toaster or an extra bulb, etc.  $25.00--a very good investment for the next year -- and hugs are received on the first day back.


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## DKT

I do believe it is everyone's personal choice...

We always leave our room clean, and we always tip daily (usually $2 to $3 per person per day) at a hotel by leaving a tip in the room in the morning. If service is poor we don't leave it the next day. When we stay at our time share we leave a tip on tidy service day and the last day.  We always tip when someone comes to our room if we requested something.  

We have rarely had poor service and so far never at the time shares we have stayed. When we travel to Europe or Mexico we try and follow the custom there. We do tend to over tip at dinner because after a few drinks I forget we are not in the US .

Lastly, we remember when we were young working full time, going to college at night and living on peanut butter sandwiches.  Since we can now afford to own a timeshare and go on wonderful vacations we feel we can afford to tip generously and consider this part of our vacation budget.  I don't care about who gets paid what or why, i just like to do it. 

Denise


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## qwerty

Beaglemom3 said:


> Bingo !
> 
> 
> -



What part of that tirade do you agree with? Spitefully accusing me of jealousy? Assuming that I do not ever tip? The assertion that tipping is not about subsidizing someone's wage? If you agree that tipping is about gratitude, why not join me in helping those in the service industry earn a decent wage?


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## qwerty

Beaglemom3 said:


> Qwerty -
> I have not "referred to" anyone. I posted an article for viewing. I did not "mention" a quote. I quoted, period.
> 
> Your queries should be directed to the author of the article if you have issues with the information. There should be a "comments" section at the end of the article.
> 
> You may want to acquaint yourself with the multi quote feature here on TUG.
> 
> 
> -



When you quote an idea without any comment, I rightly assume that you are at least giving tacit agreement. I don't know who you were quoting or even if you made that quote up. If I passed along erroneous gossip, I could not claim innocence because it was someone else who told it to me? I know that you definitely agree with what you quoted as there would be no other reason for you to do so.


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## Beaglemom3

qwerty said:


> What part of that tirade do you agree with? Spitefully accusing me of jealousy? Assuming that I do not ever tip? The assertion that tipping is not about subsidizing someone's wage? If you agree that tipping is about gratitude, why not join me in helping those in the service industry earn a decent wage?





qwerty said:


> When you quote an idea without any comment, I rightly assume that you are at least giving tacit agreement. I don't know who you were quoting or even if you made that quote up. If I passed along erroneous gossip, I could not claim innocence because it was someone else who told it to me? I know that you definitely agree with what you quoted as there would be no other reason for you to do so.





Each and every person who chooses to troll is guilty of debasing the integrity of this site.
There is a choice: 
1. Think and comment or
2. Don't think and dump your garbage.










-


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## qwerty

Beaglemom3 said:


> Each and every person who chooses to troll is guilty of debasing the integrity of this site.
> There is a choice:
> 1. Think and comment or
> 2. Don't think and dump your garbage.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -



Is this how you would like to be responded to? I have thoughtfully considered my comments and would like you not to respond if you have nothing further to add to the question of tipping for housekeeping.


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## Beaglemom3

qwerty said:


> Is this how you would like to be responded to? I have thoughtfully considered my comments and would like you not to respond if you have nothing further to add to the question of tipping for housekeeping.



  Thoughtfully ? ?????  Are you kidding ? Seriously ? LOL
You have done nothing but flame the opinions of other who don't see it your way. Re-read your rants.


ETA: We've stated our opinions, but you are trying to debate them. 





=


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## qwerty

ondeadlin said:


> I tip a minimum of 20 percent in food and drink situations.
> 
> I don't tip at all in hotels and timeshares unless I receive exceptional service.
> 
> Why the disparity?  Because wait staff are specifically paid less in hourly wages under our laws with the assumption they will be tipped.  There is no similar expectation with cleaning staff.  The suggestions that one is somehow obligated to raise a cleaning staff's pay because they're not paid "enough" strikes me as quite odd.  There are a lot of people in my life who I think should be paid more.   Teachers, for example, are ridiculously underpaid, but we don't tip them.



I agree with you completely and would only want to add all of those that offer service to the not tipped list.


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## qwerty

MuranoJo said:


> In high school I was a waitress during the summers, so maybe that influences me a bit--it was hard work (as is cleaning rooms), and the pay was pathetic.  The bright spot was meeting all those people and I really appreciated the tips.
> 
> When I was working and had an expense account, I normally left ~$3 a day in hotels for housekeeping.  I've always done the same  outside of work, sans expense account, and I leave a $3-$5 tip a day, depending on quality of service.  In MX, we receive daily cleaning and a turn-down service at night--I always leave a tip on the kitchen counter before we leave for the day.  I appreciate their hard work, and I know tips are a significant part of their livelihood.
> 
> Regarding the policy of employers making up for the shortfall of tips to make minimum wage for employees--sure seems to conjure up some questions.  How do they know how much employees make in tips?  Obviously an honor system, LOL.  Also seems to penalize those employees who really give top-notch service--some of their tips are used to 'top off' the required minimum wage.



I can only repeat what my daughter has told me when working for several big chain restaurants. The wait staff was required to report at least enough tips to meet the federal minimum wage even if the restaurant was not busy and having a very slow day. She also made it clear that seldom occurred.


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## qwerty

K2Quick said:


> I'm a bigger cheapskate than I thought.  To me $20 is excessive.  The room is only cleaned once in advance of my stay and takes probably an hour to 90 minutes.  I don't think I should be subsidizing wages to the extent of $13 - $20 per hour.



Although many have responded regarding leaving a more generous tip for housekeeping, I do not think that you are a cheapskate. About five years ago, I talked to my resort manager regarding the subtle emergence of printed notes elsewhere that appeared to be an encouragement to leave a gratuity. In spite of the response then, I now see the same at my home resort. As an owner of multiple weeks, I want to make sure that our resort has a commitment of a very high standard and that the service staff does not need to depend on tips to subsidize their pay.
P.S. Although I have never skied Utah, I always have wanted to.


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## qwerty

mbh said:


> I always leave $20 after a time share stay as long as the unit was clean when we checked in. They are cleaning after we have stayed a week, and I assure you they are not being paid high wages



May I ask what you would do if the room was not clean when you checked in? A second question would be, how often does that occur? For us, we've had to call the front desk at least three times that I can remember. Having timeshare traveled over twenty years, that might not be too bad except that I expect the unit to be cleaned and tidied for every stay. That would apply to whether using our home weeks, exchanging or renting.


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## qwerty

PigsDad said:


> Even if that was their job?
> 
> I guess I just don't understand that train of thought.  If it is your JOB to change sheets and towels, vacuum the floors and clean the kitchen, why is a tip expected?  IMO, tips should be for service above and beyond the basic job requirements.
> 
> For example, we have a housecleaner that cleans our house every two weeks.  She set the price that she charges to do that JOB.  We pay her for doing that JOB.  We don't tip her when she does her JOB.
> 
> Kurt



I agree with you completely. Because of the federal minimum wage law, the wait staff in restaurants are paid with the expectation of a tip. There may be other occupations that I'm not aware of but I'm pretty sure that housekeeping is not.


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## qwerty

presley said:


> Poll, chose Other.  It is normal that I tip always, however, there are times when I've had such terrible service or a not stocked/not well cleaned room, that I haven't left a tip.  Then, there are times when I left and on the way home remembered that I didn't leave a tip.....



This is just an idea and not something definitive. Maybe the person that was supposed to clean your room was not tipped by the last person and felt slighted? Maybe the person that will clean your room when you leave was not even there on the day you checked in?
More definitive: Where I own, the housekeeping staff does not have much of a turnover and most have been there for a while. But most, if not all, do not clean the same rooms everyday. For me, that is why I expect my resort manager make sure that everyone in housekeeping understands how important their job is to keep our high rating.


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## Passepartout

Qwerty, you need to familiarize yourself with the multi-quote feature rather than serially answering others' comments.

Just a friendly suggestion.


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## qwerty

Passepartout said:


> Qwerty, you need to familiarize yourself with the multi-quote feature rather than serially answering others' comments.
> 
> Just a friendly suggestion.



Taking your suggestion, I tried to look for the multi-quote feature but could not locate it.
Also, I do not know what you mean by "serially answering others' comments".


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## qwerty

Beaglemom3 said:


> Thoughtfully ? ?????  Are you kidding ? Seriously ? LOL
> You have done nothing but flame the opinions of other who don't see it your way. Re-read your rants.
> 
> 
> ETA: We've stated our opinions, but you are trying to debate them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> =



I have re-read my postings and cannot understand why you would consider them to be "rants".  You applauded someone who accused me of jealousy and not tipping. You then accused me of dumping garbage and suggesting that I try decaf.
This is even after I asked you not to respond if you have nothing further to add to the question of tipping for housekeeping. I have thoughtfully considered my comments regarding tipping and if you do not agree, I accept that.


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## Passepartout

qwerty said:


> Taking your suggestion, I tried to look for the multi-quote feature but *could not locate it*.
> Also, I do not know what you mean by "serially answering others' comments".



It's those " marks at the bottom right of each post. The center one of the three.

By 'serially answering', I thought it was clear that you would reply/rebut one poster, post it, then reply/rebut another poster and post it, and on and on.

State your case, which it seems you have done. If it doesn't agree with someone else's, so be it. That's what discussion is about.

It is not necessary to reply to every participant in a discussion. It appears your mind is made up, as are many others'. It's doubtful that many will change based on what's said here.

Best wishes.

Jim


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## Beaglemom3

jean05 said:


> I'm not sure what I do is the best, but after 20 plus years in a Caribbean timeshare (2 weeks of 3 bedrooms, 2 weeks of 1 bedroom) I am always delighted to see the same staff mostly from year to year.  I ALWAYS hand the tip to the person receiving it, including getting up early on last day to find the housekeeper.  I tip at the end of each week:  $15 for daily service; $20.00 for mid-week clean and after (or before) cleaning depending on your point of view.  I do add one more tip at the end of the 4 week stay--the Head of Housekeeping who brings us extra towels when we return from the beach, extra pitcher, sees that maintenance brings a working toaster or an extra bulb, etc.  $25.00--a very good investment for the next year -- and hugs are received on the first day back.





DKT said:


> I do believe it is everyone's personal choice...
> 
> We always leave our room clean, and we always tip daily (usually $2 to $3 per person per day) at a hotel by leaving a tip in the room in the morning. If service is poor we don't leave it the next day. When we stay at our time share we leave a tip on tidy service day and the last day.  We always tip when someone comes to our room if we requested something.
> 
> We have rarely had poor service and so far never at the time shares we have stayed. When we travel to Europe or Mexico we try and follow the custom there. We do tend to over tip at dinner because after a few drinks I forget we are not in the US .
> 
> Lastly, we remember when we were young working full time, going to college at night and living on peanut butter sandwiches.  Since we can now afford to own a timeshare and go on wonderful vacations we feel we can afford to tip generously and consider this part of our vacation budget.  I don't care about who gets paid what or why, i just like to do it.
> 
> Denise




Same here. Happy to do it and glad to be able to do it. 



=


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## am1

jean05 said:


> I'm not sure what I do is the best, but after 20 plus years in a Caribbean timeshare (2 weeks of 3 bedrooms, 2 weeks of 1 bedroom) I am always delighted to see the same staff mostly from year to year.  I ALWAYS hand the tip to the person receiving it, including getting up early on last day to find the housekeeper.  I tip at the end of each week:  $15 for daily service; $20.00 for mid-week clean and after (or before) cleaning depending on your point of view.  I do add one more tip at the end of the 4 week stay--the Head of Housekeeping who brings us extra towels when we return from the beach, extra pitcher, sees that maintenance brings a working toaster or an extra bulb, etc.  $25.00--a very good investment for the next year -- and hugs are received on the first day back.



That is great but I would expect a working toaster every year and the resort should be grateful that you noticed a light bulb needed to be replaced.


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## LannyPC

I voted for "NO, Never" because their wages are included in the relentlessly increasing MFs.


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## Rent_Share

LannyPC said:


> I voted for "NO, Never" because their wages are included in the relentlessly increasing MFs.



times 1 thousand


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## rapmarks

Most of the workers in Wisconsin Dells get minimum wage, housekeepers get about twice as much.  I feel bad for all those peole struggling to get by.


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