# WorldMark



## lshpak (Jan 7, 2014)

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=390737013133
I am looking at this listing. I thought that WorldMark is a point system and not fixed week system. Is there something wrong with this listing?


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## K2Quick (Jan 7, 2014)

There are a few WorldMark resorts where there are fixed weeks or fractional ownerships.  This is one of the few.


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## cotraveller (Jan 7, 2014)

WorldMark has only about 1/2 of the units at Orlando Kingstown Reef.  This appears to be one of the non-WorldMark units.


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## lcml11 (Jan 8, 2014)

lshpak said:


> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=390737013133
> I am looking at this listing. I thought that WorldMark is a point system and not fixed week system. Is there something wrong with this listing?



Looks like it went for five dollars.  If this was the points based Worldmark it was a great price.


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## Rent_Share (Jan 8, 2014)

K2Quick said:


> There are a few WorldMark resorts where there are fixed weeks or fractional ownerships. This is one of the few.



Wrong

 eBay doesn't allow travel clubs to be listed in the timeshare category, in order to comply resellers pick a desirable destination when listing the "home" resort to stay in compliance with eBay listing policy

 There are fractionals but they are called Residence Club not Worldmark - the individual weeks can manually exchanged for Worldmark Points - There are no fixed weeks with a Worldmark name.  When Worldmark doesn't own all of the units at a resort property there may be fixed weeks available but they are not sold as Worldmark -  

 Worldmark are strictly points, no deeds associated


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## lshpak (Jan 8, 2014)

Rent_Share said:


> Wrong
> 
> eBay doesn't allow travel clubs to be listed in the timeshare category, in order to comply resellers pick a desirable destination when listing the "home" resort to stay in compliance with eBay listing policy
> 
> ...


I am still confused. Last night I won this on. Will ask the seller for estoppel letter and will console with you guys. Thank you.


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## Rent_Share (Jan 8, 2014)

cotraveller said:


> WorldMark has only about 1/2 of the units at Orlando Kingstown Reef. This appears to be one of the non-WorldMark units.



I thought the remainder were wholly owned units not timeshares

 They reference RCI *7600 which is the new Worldmark Orlando Property*

IMHO you should not complete the auction

You obviously were not sure of what you were bidding on and should not be purchasing any timeshare yet.

eBay Timeshare auctions are non binding, any verbiage in the auction text or communication from seller that claims different is simply unenforceable by the seller through eBay or any court of law.

Do not send any funds until you know exactly what you are purchasing and that it is something that you that you have an exit strategy

If it is Worldmark Points, you got the bargain of the century at $ 304 total cost as long as their is no loan to be assumed.


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## tschwa2 (Jan 8, 2014)

Worldmark members have access to resorts that aren't fully owned by Worldmark.  They may only have a few units.  This most commonly occurs within Wyndham resorts but it doesn't seem to be exclusively.  I did a quick search and came up with several past ads for fixed weeks at this resort.  Also if you look in the RCI directory it is listed twice.



> Kingstown Reef  (#5945)
> Orlando,  FL  32821,  USA   map resort





> WorldMark Orlando Kingstown Reef  (#7600)
> Orlando,  FL  32821,  USA


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## itchyfeet (Jan 8, 2014)

Ask your question at www.wmowners.com   Many experienced members on that website.


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## Rent_Share (Jan 8, 2014)

Based on the lack of discussion of any Worldmark Points in the auction listing 

It is *Kingstown Reef (#5945)
*Orlando, FL 32821, USA map resort 

Not *WorldMark Orlando Kingstown Reef (#7600)
*Orlando, FL 32821, USA 


My previous advice of being sure of what you are paying for before sending any money or signing anything and NOT allowing any eBay seller to BULLY you into believing that a TIMESHARE auction is binding still stands.

 Besides an error in selecting the resort name there is nothing that resembles a Worldmark ownership in this auction


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## rhonda (Jan 8, 2014)

Rent_Share said:


> Based on the lack of discussion of any Worldmark Points in the auction listing
> 
> It is *Kingstown Reef (#5945)
> *Orlando, FL 32821, USA map resort
> ...


I'd agree!  I believe Kingstown Reef is _managed_ by Worldmark -- including the units that are not owned by Worldmark.  That may play into the confusion.  This auction appears to be a fixed week, 2BR unit at Kingstown Reef that does not participate in Worldmark credits (points).


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## presley (Jan 8, 2014)

It says it is a fixed week.  You did not buy Worldmark the club.  You bought a fixed week at a timeshare.


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## tschwa2 (Jan 8, 2014)

Rent_Share said:


> Based on the lack of discussion of any Worldmark Points in the auction listing
> 
> It is *Kingstown Reef (#5945)
> *Orlando, FL 32821, USA map resort
> ...



I agree but the research by the bidder should ideally been done prior to bidding.  I bought at a resort that was advertised as a studio knowing that the resort only had 2 br non lockoff units.  If I just vaguely thought the resort only had 2 br units and then after the auction which was advertised as a studio find out it is indeed a studio it would have been my fault. I still wouldn't be required to accept the unit as it is non binding but might have felt like I owed the $35 re-listing fee and if the bar me from bidding on any thing else of theirs so be it.


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## benyu2010 (Jan 8, 2014)

rhonda said:


> I'd agree!  I believe Kingstown Reef is _managed_ by *Worldmark* -- including the units that are not owned by Worldmark.  That may play into the confusion.  This auction appears to be a fixed week, 2BR unit at Kingstown Reef that does not participate in Worldmark credits (points).



Correction---Wyndham. Wyndham is the manager for Worldmark the club and manager of many other shared or mix ownership properties as well.


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## rhonda (Jan 8, 2014)

benyu2010 said:


> Correction---Wyndham. Wyndham is the manager for Worldmark the club and manager of many other shared or mix ownership properties as well.


Fair enough -- falling under the "Worldmark by Wyndham" division.

I was using a generalization borrowed from the Worldmark Kingstown Reef report page on Worldmark's website:

WorldMark Orlando - Kingstown Reef 
*WorldMark Managed*
12000 International Dr
Orlando, FL 32821
(407) 597-2550
Fax (407) 597-2551
Email


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## benyu2010 (Jan 8, 2014)

Other than the use of word "Worldmark" in subject, everything else clearly said this is NOT Worldmark. It might not be too late to re-consider.

Subject: annual usage. WM is (rollover) point system and no such thing of annual or EOY...No description of account size in points...etc...


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## rhonda (Jan 8, 2014)

OP:  If you already have a Worldmark account, you should contact Owner Services to see if this week might be used via the "Exchange Plus" program to generate (restricted) credits w/in the Worldmark System.

Given the high dues at this property, I doubt the reverse exchange will be of good value -- but it might provide additional options for using this purchase.


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## benyu2010 (Jan 8, 2014)

rhonda said:


> Fair enough -- falling under the "Worldmark by Wyndham" division.
> 
> I was using a generalization borrowed from the Worldmark Kingstown Reef report page on Worldmark's website:
> 
> ...



I know...there are a few I known of and here is another...

https://www.worldmarktheclub.com/resorts/wc/

It seems marketing ploy to promote "Worldmark"...but really makes zero sense as Wyndham promotes itself first now and rightfully so in this situation. Not nitpick here, just baffled


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## benyu2010 (Jan 8, 2014)

The same 2-bedroom unit has credit value of 11,000 credits year around, with abundant  availability for shoulder season or most time of the year. The weekly booking costs $770 per MM cash option, appx. $720 based on current credit rental rate or $616 per IS. At lists $934 annual MF rate, the ownership value is likely in clear negative territory.


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## lshpak (Jan 8, 2014)

tschwa2 said:


> I agree but the research by the bidder should ideally been done prior to bidding.  I bought at a resort that was advertised as a studio knowing that the resort only had 2 br non lockoff units.  If I just vaguely thought the resort only had 2 br units and then after the auction which was advertised as a studio find out it is indeed a studio it would have been my fault. I still wouldn't be required to accept the unit as it is non binding but might have felt like I owed the $35 re-listing fee and if the bar me from bidding on any thing else of theirs so be it.



Thank you all for your input. Prior to bidding I did ask the seller for estoppel letter. My question was ignored. Will see what happens next .


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## rhonda (Jan 8, 2014)

benyu2010 said:


> The same 2-bedroom unit has credit value of 11,000 credits year around, with abundant  availability for shoulder season or most time of the year. The weekly booking costs $770 per MM cash option, appx. $720 based on current credit rental rate or $616 per IS. At lists $934 annual MF rate, the ownership value is likely in clear negative territory.


Just in case it helps understanding ...
MM= Monday Madness, a Worldmark program offering discounted cash reservations
IS = Inventory Specials, a Worldmark program offering discounted cash reservations


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## benyu2010 (Jan 8, 2014)

lshpak said:


> Thank you all for your input. Prior to bidding I did ask the seller for estoppel letter. My question was ignored. Will see what happens next .



There is no estoppel for Worldmark... You may call Owner Care to verify detail of membership over the phone with either authorization on the account or conference call with seller or seller's authorized rep.

Only paper matters is the transfer doc called Transfer Endorsement Certificate after you ordered with buyer's info and paid $299, and all details would be listed in that single...

-------------------------------------------

Thank you, rhonda...


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## rhonda (Jan 8, 2014)

benyu2010 said:


> I know...there are a few I known of and here is another...
> 
> https://www.worldmarktheclub.com/resorts/wc/
> 
> It seems marketing ploy to promote "Worldmark"...but really makes zero sense as Wyndham promotes itself first now and rightfully so in this situation. Not nitpick here, just baffled


Ah -- but it carries an important signal to the inbound traveller for properties that are mixed use.  As a WM Owner, I know that when I book and travel to a resort flagged "Worldmark Managed" that I can expect certain gestures like a free movie rental (WM Gold level) and spices in the kitchen.  When I book and travel to Dolphins Cove, not managed by WM, I won't get either but will get a bag of popcorn in the unit.  So one gives me the movie, the other gives me the popcorn.  

There is more to it, of course, but that is one reason I look for the distinction.


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## ronparise (Jan 8, 2014)

benyu2010 said:


> There is no estoppel for Worldmark... You may call Owner Care to verify detail of membership over the phone with either authorization on the account or conference call with seller or seller's authorized rep.
> 
> Only paper matters is the transfer doc called Transfer Endorsement Certificate after you ordered with buyer's info and paid $299, and all details would be listed in that single...
> 
> ...



Wyndham does have something they call  Vacation Ownership Interest Details.  If you call and ask for the estopple this is what you will get for Wyndham deeded properties, Club Wyndham Access or Worldmark

Here one that was provided to me for a purchase last year

the problem with waiting for the Transfer Endorsement Certificate  is that the seller will probably want to see your money before they order it


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## JudyS (Jan 10, 2014)

I would just tell the seller that this isn't what it seemed to be in the ad, and that you don't want it. If you are really worried about getting a "nonpaying bidder" demerit from eBay, you could offer to pay the listing fee (which is pretty steep for a timeshare -- maybe $50 or so.) But I would only offer to refund the lister's fee if doing business on eBay is really important to you. (I think you can get a "nonpaying bidder" demerit a couple of times a year before eBay actually does anything.)

You should definitely not accept title to a timeshare that you don't want, or that you don't understand.



> ...Will ask the seller for estoppel letter and will console with you guys....


Nah, you haven't been suckered out of any money, so you don't need someone to console you!


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## benyu2010 (Jan 10, 2014)

rhonda said:


> Ah -- but it carries an important signal to the inbound traveller for properties that are mixed use.  As a WM Owner, I know that when I book and travel to a resort flagged "Worldmark Managed" that I can expect certain gestures like a free movie rental (WM Gold level) and spices in the kitchen.  When I book and travel to Dolphins Cove, not managed by WM, I won't get either but will get a bag of popcorn in the unit.  So one gives me the movie, the other gives me the popcorn.
> 
> There is more to it, of course, but that is one reason I look for the distinction.



Tell them Worldmark by Wyndham next time, and you may have both movie and popcorn


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## Rent_Share (Jan 10, 2014)

JudyS said:


> I would just tell the seller that this isn't what it seemed to be in the ad, and that you don't want it. If you are really worried about getting a "nonpaying bidder" demerit from eBay, you could offer to pay the listing fee (which is pretty steep for a timeshare -- maybe $50 or so.) But I would only offer to refund the lister's fee if doing business on eBay is really important to you. (I think you can get a "nonpaying bidder" demerit a couple of times a year before eBay actually does anything.)
> 
> You should definitely not accept title to a timeshare that you don't want, or that you don't understand.
> 
> Nah, you haven't been suckered out of any money, so you don't need someone to console you!



 ebay Auctions are non binding, the description was incomplete/wrong, upon investigation you won't  is be getting what was described and there no reason to pay the seller anything, how can you penalized as a non paying buyer on a non binding transaction


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## ronparise (Jan 10, 2014)

JudyS said:


> I would just tell the seller that this isn't what it seemed to be in the ad, and that you don't want it. If you are really worried about getting a "nonpaying bidder" demerit from eBay, you could offer to pay the listing fee (which is pretty steep for a timeshare -- maybe $50 or so.) But I would only offer to refund the lister's fee if doing business on eBay is really important to you. (I think you can get a "nonpaying bidder" demerit a couple of times a year before eBay actually does anything.)
> 
> Nah, you haven't been suckered out of any money, so you don't need someone to console you!



You should definitely not accept title to a timeshare that you don't want, or that you don't understand. but "what seemed to be in the ad"  isnt  a strong enough standard. I think if you are bidding on anything, you have an implied obligation to know you are bidding on, and to know it will suit your needs.

The listing fee is $35  if it sells, you pay another $35  If the buyer backs out and they re list, they get the selling fee back, to apply to the relist

Again, I agree you should never take title to a timeshare you dont want, but also, you should never bid on a timeshare that you dont want or understand. . 

Ebays non binding policy for real estate has to do with contract law and the Statute of Frauds.  Most real estate deals are not binding until there is a written contract signed by both parties, and consideration.  Ebay deals are not exempt. 

So absolutely,  you are not bound to buy the thing until you sign the contract.  Its the law (and ebay policy) but why not do your due diligence before you bid, rather than after

The ebay notice of non payment is the sellers only way to combat the real problem of people using ebay as their entertainment by bidding on things that they have no intention of buying


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## lshpak (Jan 10, 2014)

ronparise said:


> You should definitely not accept title to a timeshare that you don't want, or that you don't understand. but "what seemed to be in the ad"  isnt  a strong enough standard. I think if you are bidding on anything, you have an implied obligation to know you are bidding on, and to know it will suit your needs.
> 
> The listing fee is $35  if it sells, you pay another $35  If the buyer backs out and they re list, they get the selling fee back, to apply to the relist
> 
> ...


Ron,
I agree with everything you sad. I am new to all this and I have a lot to learn. However, in my defense I did ask the seller for estoppel letter which he never responded to. In fact to this day I do not have any communications. So, lesson learned --- due diligence before biding!  Also, can somebody pm me if they see a good deal on eBay. Thank you.
Laura.


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## ronparise (Jan 10, 2014)

lshpak said:


> Ron,
> I agree with everything you sad. I am new to all this and I have a lot to learn. However, in my defense I did ask the seller for estoppel letter which he never responded to. In fact to this day I do not have any communications. So, lesson learned --- due diligence before biding!  Also, can somebody pm me if they see a good deal on eBay. Thank you.
> Laura.



Dont take this the wrong way but If I see a good deal on ebay Im not telling anybody if its something I want

Seriously..dont depend on anyone else...set your search criteria on ebay and watch. If there is something you like;  do your homework and bid. I dont tell anyone, even other bidders. I use a sniping service to bid for me in the last 2 seconds.


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## vacationhopeful (Jan 10, 2014)

ronparise said:


> Dont take this the wrong way but If I see a good deal on ebay Im not telling anybody if its something I want
> 
> Seriously..dont depend on anyone else...set your search criteria on ebay and watch. If there is something you like;  do your homework and bid. I dont tell anyone, even other bidders. I use a sniping service to bid for me in the last 2 seconds.



Being in a business enterprise, means you DECIDE. It is your money and YOU have to figure out the WHO, WHAT and HOWs what you are choosing to do. I love hearing how people want a partner who has experience .... I know they have more money than experience and won't be in business very long.

If you want to take your family on vacations, figure out WHAT are the decision points for those vacations and then look at the resorts. I know what types of vacations I like to go on.

I buy FIXED WEEKS because I am not paying for some booking computer system and its bells and whistles. 

I buy points which have a purpose and value to me in how I am going to use them

And you better figure out a budget for MFs BEFORE you bid on something.

There is one TUGGER around, whose rule is X number of timeshare weeks --- want a new one, AN OLDER WEEK HAS TO BE SOLD before a NEW WEEK is brought. Truly does STOP impulse buying.


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## lcml11 (Jan 10, 2014)

lshpak said:


> Ron,
> I agree with everything you sad. I am new to all this and I have a lot to learn. However, in my defense I did ask the seller for estoppel letter which he never responded to. In fact to this day I do not have any communications. So, lesson learned --- due diligence before biding!  Also, can somebody pm me if they see a good deal on eBay. Thank you.
> Laura.



I have no lost tears for the E-Bay timeshare relief companies and other flip artists when someone decides not to go through with a bid.  If enough people did that then maybe the market place will bring just rewards to this group.

Remember, TUG and other forums have a bunch of low cost rentals that can be had on short notice.  So there is a viable option that makes buying any given timeshare not a urgent situation.  

I would strongly suggest trying a low cost rental at a resort or resorts you intend on buying into before you buy anything.

This time of year, I believe you could find VIP Platinum members that could give you one heck of a deal to test drive a resort for a reservation under 60 days out.


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