# is Wyndham better than the old Worldmark



## travelhome (Jul 30, 2008)

I was out of TUG for some time so my knowledge on TS is somewhat dated.

A year or two back, when people were asking about the point system, especially people from CA area, I saw worldmark was always recommended. Then, Wyndham took over WM management and caused some worries at that time. 

Now I see when people are asking about the point system, usually Wyndham is recommended as a cheap start. RCI point 3 year lease option was recommended as well.

I'm wondering, is the current wyndham system much different from the old worldmark system? Is the wyndhan point system better than the worldmark's? Is worldmark system still independed from wyndham system?

I see worldmark points are not resaled at around 0.6-0.7/pt range now whereas it was traded at around 0.82 two years ago.

I appreciate I can get a quick re-education on this. Or a link to the previous discussion would be very helpful too.

Thanks a lot!

Tiff


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## LLW (Jul 30, 2008)

travelhome said:


> I was out of TUG for some time so my knowledge on TS is somewhat dated.
> 
> A year or two back, when people were asking about the point system, especially people from CA area, I saw worldmark was always recommended. Then, Wyndham took over WM management and caused some worries at that time.
> 
> ...



Nowadays, when you see "Wyndham", you have to ascertain whether it is Worldmark (mistakenly referred to by some as Wyndham), the old Fairfield (now called Wyndham Vacation Resorts - WVR), or Wyndham Vacation Ownership (WVO), which owns Trendwest (now called "Worldmark by Wyndham"), WVR, Pahio, RCI, and a bunch of other companies.

WM is still its own independent system. Since Wyndham took over, WM prices have been going down. Now it is in the 60-70 cents range, as you observed, about 1/3 of developer price. The downward trend signifies that supply exceeds demand.

WVR prices have been going down too - people are saying that they are selling at about 1/10 of developer price. So that's why "a cheap start".


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## travelhome (Jul 30, 2008)

*price going down a buying opportunity or sth to avoid?*

When supply > demand and the price starts to drop, is this a buying opportunity or is this sth to avoid? 

Is the price drop due to the decrease of customer satisfaction? Why was that worldmark held steady around 0.8 before and suddenly took a toll? 

Or, was that due to the fact that the combined entity give people more choice and increase the system efficiency and lead to supply>demand? If this is the case, this is actually a good thing to the customers, right?

Thanks!


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## BocaBum99 (Jul 30, 2008)

WorldMark, in my opinion, is still a far superior product to Wyndham.  There are a lot more Wyndham (Fairfield) owners and resorts.  But, the WorldMark product and flexibililty is unmatched.

As for RCI Points, every other point system is better than that point system.


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## lprstn (Jul 30, 2008)

When deciding between the two systems or any system you need to judge for yourself by the following

- Does the system have the resorts and locations you want to visit frequently
- Is it flexible to combine points and weeks for the best possible vacation options
- are the MFs reasonable
- What are the advantages of owning at one homesite over another
- Will it meet your personal vacation needs

It really boils down to the above for most people.  I will admit Worldmark has some really nice places, and its also nice not to have to purchase home court advantage at some resorts.  However that can be a bad thing if you don't want to compete with other owners for prime time locations and times of year.

And lastly, if you are purchasing resale..I always prefer to go cheaper...and right now...Wyndam is the better bargain.


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## Rent_Share (Jul 30, 2008)

lprstn said:


> And lastly, if you are purchasing resale..I always prefer to go cheaper...and right now...Wyndam is the better bargain.



Pay me now or pay me forever  -  WM has no deeds so generally there is no closing costs except the transfer fee $ 150  (if there is one added it seems to reduce the per point price back to market

With the FSP (which includes RCI) the annual maintenance fees seem (to me) to be sgnificantly higher than WM  -   I am working on a 6K account and haven't been able to fully compare apples to oranges  but  a 12k WM would have maintence fees of around $ 650 - 700  An Equivilent Fairfied would be 150-180 K and be over $ 1000

Correct me if I am wrong 

I do believethere is an annual cap on the amount that WM Maintenace fees can increase

That being said the newer resorts are being added at obscene point values requiring double the point purchases to stay there as the original 55 or so resorts


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## acesneights (Jul 30, 2008)

The double point new resorts feed back to increase the demand at the old resorts where you can get two weeks for your one week at obscenely priced new resort.

Therefore, more demand at old resorts and tricks to get what you want.

Old owners get squeezed out, sell and drive down prices.

Also, since WM by WYN MF increase at max allowed rate for the foreseeable future.

Board controlled by WYN. Cheap new double point resorts dilute value of old resorts as all WM points are equal.

WYN FSP points are at 95% discount. WM may be headed in same direction, therefore sell now and get 30% of retail instead of 5% in several years.

Stan


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## Rent_Share (Jul 30, 2008)

acesneights said:


> Also, since WM by WYN MF increase at max allowed rate for the foreseeable future.



But that is 5 % versus no limit at all on the FSP resorts  - a budgetable number  - (Plan for the worst, hope for the best)  -   FSP resorts could also incurr  special assesments



acesneights said:


> WYN FSP points are at 95% discount. WM may be headed in same direction, therefore sell now and get 30% of retail instead of 5% in several years.
> .



I believe you meant 50 % not 5 %


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## acesneights (Jul 30, 2008)

No. 5%. Wyndham charges $200/K and resale is under $10/K.

WM is about $1.80/pt vs about $0.60 resale.

If WM sinks to FSP levels it would sell for under $0.10/pt.

Stan


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## LLW (Jul 30, 2008)

acesneights said:


> WYN FSP points are at 95% discount. WM may be headed in same direction, therefore sell now and get 30% of retail instead of 5% in several years.
> 
> Stan



................ if 
1. you don't want to use the WM resorts (as an owner with the owner benefits of the WM product) in the next few years.
2. you have a crystal ball (in which case I would use that in the stock market  ).


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## sfsailors (Jul 30, 2008)

acesneights said:


> .
> 
> WYN FSP points are at 95% discount. WM may be headed in same direction, therefore sell now and get 30% of retail instead of 5% in several years.
> 
> Stan



It's a bold prediction! Sell off your 401K because the DJ will be down under 500 in several years too.


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## acesneights (Jul 30, 2008)

Not a PREDICTION, it's a PROJECTION of current trends in WYN managed timeshare products.

I cited this as a REASON, WM resales may be falling in price.

If the Dow hits 500, the price of your FSP or WM points will be the least of your problems.

Is there some factor unique to WM that would keep it from suffering the fate of FSP/WVO?

In any case, it's not a bad idea to buy only 6K and rent the rest from other owners rather than gamble on WM NOT dropping to 10 cents.

Stan


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## LLW (Jul 30, 2008)

travelhome said:


> When supply > demand and the price starts to drop, is this a buying opportunity or is this sth to avoid?



In my humble opinion, a potential buyer should 
1. study the WM product and decide whether it is a good fit for where one wants to go (on an ongoing basis), and how one's personality and lifestyle fit the best way to use WM;
2. determine whether this is a good time to buy based on a most-likely case scenario of pricing and one's vacation needs in the foreseeable future, 

for which purposes I would advise gathering information from 
1. www.wmowners.com , especially its forum;
2. the WM Owner Education Handbook, especially the Club Guidelines in Exhibit 4:
http://www.worldmarktheclub.com/education/pdfs/basic_owner_ed_handbook.pdf .


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## sfsailors (Jul 30, 2008)

acesneights said:


> Not a PREDICTION, it's a PROJECTION of current trends in WYN managed timeshare products.
> 
> I cited this as a REASON, WM resales may be falling in price.
> 
> ...



FF and WM are two different products which happen to be the same mangement company. You may be an expert in FF( big MAY BE) but you know nothing about WM, so don't give out advive about something you know very little about.


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## acesneights (Jul 30, 2008)

au contraire

If your company is taken over by a corporate looter, you don't have to be an expert to project that your company will suffer the same fate.

Any benefits that don't require a vote of the owners are subject to removal or reduction by Wyndham's puppets on the BOD.

I am sure that it's as difficult for the WM owners to see their "investment" being looted by Wyndham as it was for the FSP/WVO owners and before them the fixed week FAX owners (and Equivest and dozens of previous timeshare organizations)

Stan


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## travelhome (Jul 30, 2008)

*is the vacation quality going down?*

People buy into timeshare, be it WM, wyndham, FF, or RCI points or week, to enjoy the vacation. 

Only new people coming on-board are looking at the purchase price. People already own do not necessarily have to worry about the price unless they want to sell at that moment. 

So with WM and Wyndham prices going down, does the vacation quality go down at the same time? By vacation quality, I mean the ease of reservation on what you want and when you want etc. 

As long as people are still enjoying the vacations, price going down is a good thing for the new customers.

So what actually gives in the system?


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