# Hawaii Resale Market



## TXTortoise (Feb 12, 2018)

While on Maui the last two weeks I was talking to a local broker about how I had kept waiting to see the uptick in listings everyone says occurs once MF notices come out.

While I'd been tracking MOC Lahaina winter listings since 4Q2016, he noted that even he was surprised at how few new listings overall occurred this year, noting that folks may be renting in lieu of liquidating...or using their weeks, I suppose.

I took a quick look at Redweek for Ko'Olina and MOC old buildings and while there were lots of listings, I didn't see many 'Sold' notices, which suggest that there are few buyers, but that the rental market is getting more active. Definitely lots of rental listings and 'sales' on Redweek and Vacation Candy, along with the newish Marriott Facebook pages.  

Anyway, just thought it was interesting that he had noticed the lack of new listings across the market, along with my observation that few are buying the Lahaina/Napili weeks, particularly the pricey winter/summer fixed weeks.


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## MOXJO7282 (Feb 13, 2018)

I think it's because the economy is doing so good there aren't distressed sellers that bring down the market so prices are going higher and the sellers listing are just waiting for that buyer who wants what he wants and will pay for it. Right now if a buyer wants something he will have to overpay or be creative which is what I'm trying to be on a deal I'm working on.


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## TXTortoise (Feb 13, 2018)

That's pretty much what my Marriott resale guy said today, as a sidebar discussion.  He also said they were flush with buy-back dollars to populate the Points system, vs build, so we may see ROFRs increasing.  Then again, for those looking to sell back to Marriott, they might have better luck now.


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## Southerngirl528 (Feb 13, 2018)

I sure am wanting to buy another Napili/Lahaina week. I would dearly LOVE to get a fixed week, but they are a lot more pricey. 

Getting up in the middle of the night HST 2 weeks in a row while on vacation to call at the 13 month window and TRY to book my weeks for winter months at MMOC has become a nightmare. No pun intended..... still didn't get what I wanted either call.... ugh.


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## TXTortoise (Feb 13, 2018)

SG, I'd keep an eye out if you are targeting winter weeks.  Between the ROFR.net list and my private tracking I can tell you even the winter weeks are either dropping, a slight bit, in price or have been sitting at a high price so long that you should make some offers.

But, getting cheaper means you're still in the 30k-40k range for 2BRs January weeks bought from a broker.  (I can't remember the last time I saw a winter Napili week anywhere.  Fewer fixed I expect, but the ones I saw last year sold lower than Lahaina tower pricing, and all 3BR.)

That said, many weeks are probably as MOX said, "I don't really want to sell, but if you'll pay my price....". ;-)


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## Southerngirl528 (Feb 13, 2018)

TXTortoise said:


> SG, I'd keep an eye out if you are targeting winter weeks.  Between the ROFR.net list and my private tracking I can tell you even the winter weeks are either dropping, a slight bit, in price or have been sitting at a high price so long that you should make some offers.
> 
> But, getting cheaper means you're still in the 30k-40k range for 2BRs January weeks bought from a broker.  (I can't remember the last time I saw a winter Napili week anywhere.  Fewer fixed I expect, but the ones I saw last year sold lower than Lahaina tower pricing, and all 3BR.)
> 
> That said, many weeks are probably as MOX said, "I don't really want to sell, but if you'll pay my price....". ;-)



Yeah, there are precious few Napili fixed weeks and when I see them they are really, really pricey! I saw a 3 bdrm fixed, Week 6 as I recall, in Lahaina for what I thought was a good price..... can't swear to anything but I want to say it was just under $40,000?? But I really don't want a 3 bedroom, just a 2 bedroom. I guess if I bought one more float week 2 bedroom, Annual use, it would give me 3 weeks in a 2 bedroom on the odd years and 2 weeks on our even years..... and we usually lock off one unit each year so that would be nice additional time as well. I think I'm going to ask Santa for another week! 

We were just at Napili for a couple of weeks last month and I kept wondering if there are often groups of owners that get together. I know a couple of folks here on TUGS have made some good connection with owners wanting to sell their weeks.


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## StevenTing (Feb 13, 2018)

I currently have 3.5 Hawaii weeks.  I've been wanting to sell the EOY week but not willing to let it go at fire sale prices.  It's ridiculous how cheap some of them are right now.  I figure this time around, I'm going to book a prime week and include it with the sale.  You know, make it more appealing.  Worst case, I take another trip to Hawaii.


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## TXTortoise (Feb 13, 2018)

Steve, FWIW, when buying my first MOC floating 2BR OF week last year, that's what helped me to decide between multiple sellers.  The seller had reserved a winter week for 2019.  That and I got it for $18k, which helped. ;-)


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## GregT (Feb 13, 2018)

StevenTing said:


> I currently have 3.5 Hawaii weeks.



Plus two of them are 6206

Love that room!!


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## cgeidl (Feb 14, 2018)

We just gave back to our homeowners association four timeshare weeks we had for about 15 to 20 years. We just had the right to use and told  them we no longer  wanted to use them. They may have had some small value but not worth the hassle of trying to sell. You could probably put these weeks up from the homeowners  association  for very little money.


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## VacationForever (Feb 14, 2018)

GregT said:


> Plus two of them are 6206
> 
> Love that room!!


Is it fixed unit, fixed week?  Where?


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## JIMinNC (Feb 14, 2018)

cgeidl said:


> We just gave back to our homeowners association four timeshare weeks we had for about 15 to 20 years. We just had the right to use and told  them we no longer  wanted to use them. They may have had some small value but not worth the hassle of trying to sell. You could probably put these weeks up from the homeowners  association  for very little money.



I’m assuming those weeks were not Maui Ocean Club, which is what the OP was referring to. Marriott Hawaii weeks most certainly are worth the hassle to sell, as depending on what you own, resale prices could be anywhere from a few thousand dollars well up into five figures for oceanfront Maui Ocean Club, with fixed units in Lahaina/Napili often selling resale for $30,000 or more.


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## GregT (Feb 14, 2018)

VacationForever said:


> Is it fixed unit, fixed week?  Where?


Yes, this the 3BR unit in Lahaina Villas, on the 6th floor.  It was the model unit when Marriott was selling the new towers, and it has a spectacular view.  My Avatar (?) is from the balcony, and the pic is from Marriott's website.  

I own 6206/25 and Steven owns 6206/22 and 6206/23.   We are working on the owner of 6206/24 to sell, but he has been stubborn (and has been, for 8 years now).

6206 rocks.  I miss Maui!

Best,

Greg


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## VacationForever (Feb 14, 2018)

GregT said:


> Yes, this the 3BR unit in Lahaina Villas, on the 6th floor.  It was the model unit when Marriott was selling the new towers, and it has a spectacular view.  My Avatar (?) is from the balcony, and the pic is from Marriott's website.
> 
> I own 6206/25 and Steven owns 6206/22 and 6206/23.   We are working on the owner of 6206/24 to sell, but he has been stubborn (and has been, for 8 years now).
> 
> ...


WOW!  You guys are amazing...


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## TXTortoise (Feb 14, 2018)

You need to read this thread to appreciate how amazing GregT's effort was... ;-)

https://tugbbs.com/forums/index.php?threads/moc-shuffle.229816/

I'm still trying to replicate for winter what he managed in summer, in getting sequential weeks on another floor.


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## MOXJO7282 (Feb 15, 2018)

I'm really missing Maui as well. We haven't been since 2014 after going every other year since 2002 . We'll be there was 2 weeks this July/Aug and can't wait.  I find myself every day checking reviews for restaurants and the Maui RC that we're possibly staying at our first week. 

The big dream is getting closer as well when we can spend a month or more on our beloved Maui. I'm hopeful that could happen in 5 years or so.


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## NTP66 (Feb 15, 2018)

MOXJO7282 said:


> The big dream is getting closer as well when we can spend a month or more on our beloved Maui. I'm hopeful that could happen in 5 years or so.



My wife has been reluctant to do more than 7 days in Maui the last two trips because of missing work, but I'm finally working her over to just push it aside and enjoy the time off like normal people. So, 11 days this June, and two weeks for every trip after. Neither of us can swing a full month at a time right now, but once our daughter goes to college, we hope to have no more use for our timeshares outside of using it solely as cash flow via rental.


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## StevenTing (Feb 15, 2018)

VacationForever said:


> WOW!  You guys are amazing...



It was a lot of work and I almost walked away from the deal.  Actually, I did walk away for about 5 days and then I made one last attempt and the broker spoke with the owner about the pros and cons of accepting my deal.

And in the future, hopefully Greg and/or I can acquire 6206/24.  We'd then have our own little exchange company between ourselves.


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## gblotter (Feb 15, 2018)

NTP66 said:


> My wife has been reluctant to do more than 7 days in Maui the last two trips because of missing work, but I'm finally working her over to just push it aside and enjoy the time off like normal people.


Oh, I don't recommend that at all. We learned that lesson the hard way. During that second week, you really slow down and personality changes set in. Staying two weeks in Hawaii makes it so much more difficult to get on the plane home. Some serious depression issues were encountered trying to get back into the swing of life after returning home. Don't mess with PHSD (Post Hawaii Stress Disorder).


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## NTP66 (Feb 15, 2018)

gblotter said:


> Oh, I don't recommend that at all. We learned that lesson the hard way. During that second week, you really slow down and personality changes set in. Staying two weeks in Hawaii makes it so much more difficult to get on the plane home. Some serious depression issues were encountered trying to get back into the swing of life after returning home. Don't mess with PHSD (Post Hawaii Stress Disorder).


We've done two weeks before our daughter was born, but really, I'd feel that way even after leaving Maui after only a few hours. That our units are EOY compels me to get as much time in as possible, too.


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## GregT (Feb 15, 2018)

gblotter said:


> Don't mess with PHSD (Post Hawaii Stress Disorder).



Good advice.


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## mjm1 (Feb 15, 2018)

gblotter said:


> Oh, I don't recommend that at all. We learned that lesson the hard way. During that second week, you really slow down and personality changes set in. Staying two weeks in Hawaii makes it so much more difficult to get on the plane home. Some serious depression issues were encountered trying to get back into the swing of life after returning home. Don't mess with PHSD (Post Hawaii Stress Disorder).



Love it! 

Mike


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## hangloose (Feb 16, 2018)

This will be an interesting trend to watch.  MVC Hawaii weeks generally tend to command a premium, as the creme of the crop...especially when looking at Ocean Front or Ocean View villas.   IV/MV/GV are generally cheaper.  After watching the trends for a while, I purchased two MVC Hawaii weeks last year, a MOC 2BR OF EY and a MKO 3BR OV EY.   Both found in late summer at what I feel were reasonable prices, $19k and $17.5k respectively.   I always thought inventory would increase (thus lower resale prices) in 4Q17/1Q18 as maintenance fees were due and owners were looking to sell, but that influx of resales never came through locations like RedWeek.   As a result, resale inventory for OF/OV seems limited in quantity thus prices remain high.  Perhaps, it is due to the economy being better?   Not sure, but maybe a good sign for us HI owners that value will remain for these top quality weeks?

In any event, I'm glad I found my two HI weeks.   My only fear now is that I'll continue to have to be creative with my weeks and book them consecutively well in advance (13 months+) in order to get the reservation dates and villa placement I want.  That's tough when competing for high demand weeks against those with many more weeks than I own.   Long term, I think owning fixed weeks where possible is the best alternative...assuming the fixed week works and finances work out.  Congrats to StevenTing and GregT for realizing this and making it happen with their 3BR Fixed MOC weeks.   Maybe I'll be there in a few years, but at this point we just cannot commit to the same week annually nor the added expense those weeks require.


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## myoakley (Feb 16, 2018)

In 2010, I bought my Marriott Kauai Beach Club on e-bay.  At that time, there were approximately 100 offers of Marriott timehares on e-bay on a daily basis with quite a few in Hawaii.  I have been following the listings ever since, and have seen offerings decrease to approximately 30 - 40, with very few in Hawaii.  Has anyone else noticed this?  I wonder if this is due to an improved economy and people no longer anxious to unload their timeshares or to Marriott exercising ROFR and nullifying these bargain e-bay sales.


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## MOXJO7282 (Feb 16, 2018)

hangloose said:


> Both found in late summer at what I feel were reasonable prices, $19k and $17.5k respectively.  ....   Not sure, but maybe a good sign for us HI owners that value will remain for these top quality weeks? ..... Maybe I'll be there in a few years, but at this point we just cannot commit to the same week annually nor the added expense those weeks require.



Not only did you get excellent resale price points but you bought special units 2BDRM *OF* MOC and a *3BDRM* OV MKO so these will no doubt hold their pricing.  I too admire the guys with the fixed weeks and if the fixed weeks were around when my family was younger I would've really went after them.

In hindsight though I'm glad we didn't have the opportunity because while I was desperate for the same week, pres week, to coincide with my kids school calendar  back then things change and now we don't need the same week and can be flexible so paying a significant premium for the exact week was only temporary and I would've paid a premium for only a few years of benefit.  

I paid $19.1K all-in for an OF float new tower and now contracting an ODD year of the same for $14k all-in which I will be able to secure a prime winter week with. Maybe not Pres week Saturday check-in because those are like the holy grail but a good winter week I can use or rent.

To get a fixed winter week you're talking $30-$40k+ so that is a real premium for the right to the same unit /same week. If I really needed the same week then I would be of the same mindset to pay the premium but luckily I don't have to.


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## MOXJO7282 (Feb 16, 2018)

myoakley said:


> In 2010, I bought my Marriott Kauai Beach Club on e-bay.  At that time, there were approximately 100 offers of Marriott timehares on e-bay on a daily basis with quite a few in Hawaii.  I have been following the listings ever since, and have seen offerings decrease to approximately 30 - 40, with very few in Hawaii.  Has anyone else noticed this?  I wonder if this is due to an improved economy and people no longer anxious to unload their timeshares or to Marriott exercising ROFR and nullifying these bargain e-bay sales.



I got my best Maui deal on ebay the  $19.1K OF float new tower I reference above and I do think it was the best buyer's market for Marriott deals if you have the risk tolerance to deal with some questionable sellers but it definitely doesn't have the deals it once did.

I do believe it is as you state so well, it is "an improved economy and people no longer anxious to unload their timeshares or to Marriott exercising ROFR and nullifying these bargain e-bay sales"


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## NTP66 (Feb 16, 2018)

The current market makes me glad that we purchased when we did, if only to allow us to continue renting our second unit for a nice profit as needed.


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## JIMinNC (Feb 16, 2018)

As I mentioned in the thread I started this morning about our just-completed purchase in the MOC original towers, we found it very challenging to find EOY-Odd listings at MOC. 

I had started looking in earnest last summer/fall. The first thing that happened was that all of the EOY MOC inventory disappeared from the Marriott Resales site. We were focusing on OV units since several experienced MOC owners here had said the OV units are a little easier to book for a single-week MOC owner than the OF 2BR units, plus they cost less to buy. But the Odd-Year OV units were so hard to find, we expanded our search to include OF, and still had trouble finding a lot of available listings. Twice we inquired about new attractively-priced EOY OF listings on Redweek, but they were both already under contract just a few days after being listed. We found several EOY-Odd 2BR OV listings from brokers, but on the first two we pursued, the sellers wouldn't go below $9,000. I contacted Sam Rodriguez at Selling Timeshares, and he had just received a listing that matched what we were looking for the day before. I don't think the listing was even finalized yet. We agreed to a price of $8,000.


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## NTP66 (Feb 16, 2018)

JIMinNC said:


> We agreed to a price of $8,000.


Which is a great price, IMO. We paid $8300 for our EOY (even) 2BR unit. That said, 5infam practically stole his at $7k.


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## gblotter (Feb 16, 2018)

During the depths of the recession in 2011, I purchased three weeks on the resale market for embarrassingly low prices.

Marriott Mountainside - 2BR Gold Season (Summer)
Marriott KoOlina Beach Club - 2BR Ocean View
Marriott Maui Ocean Club - 2BR Ocean View

At that time, Marriott International was in the process of spinning off the timeshare business, so they were not exercising ROFR on anything. Conditions were perfect for grabbing bargains on the resale market. It was one of those rare times when I do something smart.

Because they were purchased after June 2010, these weeks cannot be enrolled in the Destinations Club program. But no matter - these are locations we love visiting, so we rarely want to trade anyway.


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## Jayco29D (Feb 16, 2018)

gblotter said:


> During the depths of the recession in 2011, I purchased three weeks on the resale market for embarrassingly low prices.
> 
> Marriott Mountainside - 2BR Gold Season (Summer)
> Marriott KoOlina Beach Club - 2BR Ocean View
> ...



What would be “embarrassingly low” prices? I am just wondering bc we have enough timeshares now but may wait for next recession to buy more. I believe we got great prices on our timeshares but we just bought them all at the end of last year.


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## TXTortoise (Feb 16, 2018)

I hope everyone is keeping ROFR.net updated.  Even if you post anonymously, use your correct email for the moderator.


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## brianfox (Feb 16, 2018)

Jayco29D said:


> What would be “embarrassingly low” prices? I am just wondering bc we have enough timeshares now but may wait for next recession to buy more. I believe we got great prices on our timeshares but we just bought them all at the end of last year.



Right now Annual MV 2BR Waiohai and MV 2BR Ko Olina weeks are going for around $5K.  That is the lowest I have seen (I purchased three Waiohai weeks for that price).  Been tracking for years.  Could they drop more?  Yes - they could fall another $5K in the next recession. 

I recommend you follow the ROFR database, because sales price means nothing when ROFR is involved...


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## MOXJO7282 (Feb 16, 2018)

brianfox said:


> Could they drop more?  Yes - they could fall another $5K in the next recession.
> 
> I recommend you follow the ROFR database, because sales price means nothing when ROFR is involved...



Not to disparage Kauai and Oahu but that won't happen with view units at the MOC. I'm sure they will lose some value when the next recession hits and I will be a big buyer of Maui units because there is always a demand for Maui.

I started my Marriott rental business in 2003 and really started adding weeks in the next 5 years to rent.  I didn't take loans but did use 0% credit cards to pay for all of them so I was definitely exposed.  

Then the recession hit and I thought I was screwed and rentals would dry up and the margin call would come.  As it turns out my Maui rental business didn't miss a beat, I didn't have to lower price or anything, and haven't since.

I don't think you can say that about too many timeshares. Probably a few but MOC is one of them.


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## Jayco29D (Feb 16, 2018)

Good point above. During the last recession, we bought more real estate. We went on vacations that cost the same as now - or more in some cases. I just discovered upscale timeshares and what a bargain they are. Now I am hooked. But we buy to use, not rent. My spouse says no more timeshares unless I sell something. I feel the prices we got on everything except Disney are so low that even if they go to zero, we will get our money’s worth out of them. However, we only bought TS with guaranteed ocean view or oceanfront in Hawaii. Maintenance fees are the same, so I would rather pay a little more upfront to get the ocean. Otherwise, why go to Hawaii?


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## StevenTing (Feb 20, 2018)

I am now under contract to sell my Ko Olina EOY Odd 2BR OV week.  I think listed it on Thursday, 2/15/2018 and Buyer filled out the contract on 2/19/2018.  Here's hoping to a smooth transaction.


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## csodjd (Feb 24, 2018)

MOXJO7282 said:


> I'm sure they will lose some value when the next recession hits and I will be a big buyer of Maui units because there is always a demand for Maui.


Precisely. I've got an OF EOY Odd MOC Napili and now I'm just waiting for our next recession, maybe a year or two away?, to find an Even.


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## NTP66 (Feb 25, 2018)

Whoa whoa whoa, let’s not jinx things by hoping for a recession now...


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## MOXJO7282 (Feb 25, 2018)

Until the next downturn there are still deals to be found but for OF you have to be patient and then when you find the right deal, pounce on it to close the deal. I have 4 even EOY MOCs so really have been looking for odd EOY to balance out the mix and as mentioned those seemed to be limited for some reason.  

Just found a Naplil OF float with 2019 usage and offered 2 deals, $X for 2019 usage or $X plus $1000 if you the seller could secure me a prime 2019 week check-in as part of the deal.  I thought this was a good approach because I would've been happy at $X as it was a good all-in price and even happier to get a prime week check-in and pay the extra $1k because that is even more valuable to me.  

The extra $1k gave the seller the incentive to secure the prime week I was looking for and they were able to so, so  it's a win-win, I got a prime week to use instead of getting stuck with a bad week which is usually the case and one of the down sides of buying resale, and the seller gets the higher price point.

Now let's hope it passes ROFR.  I'll add the details to the ROFR database when I get official word.


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## JIMinNC (Feb 25, 2018)

NTP66 said:


> Whoa whoa whoa, let’s not jinx things by hoping for a recession now...



We are, actually, quite overdue for a recession. It would be far better to have a mild recession sooner to balance out the economic cycle than to let the economy get overheated, resulting in a more extreme boom-bust cycle. That was one of the advantages of the slow but steady growth since the end of the Great Recession of 2008-2009 - the economy didn't get overheated. If things get a little more out of control growth-wise, any resulting recession could be more severe. I think that's why we saw such wild swings with the stock market a couple weeks ago when interest rates spiked faster than expected. The fear is that the economy will overheat and trigger a more serious down turn.


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## TXTortoise (Mar 28, 2018)

Southerngirl528 said:


> I sure am wanting to buy another Napili/Lahaina week. I would dearly LOVE to get a fixed week, but they are a lot more pricey.



SG, I was revisiting this with someone offline (they are using a broker to list Napili 2BR OF Fixed Week 7...not online yet) and it just reminded me to suggest that you try and find a sale by owner.  Really hard to do for these Napili or Lahaina weeks, but if you can, both the buyer and seller can benefit.


*For example:*
Broker Lists Everywhere for $50K and takes 20% (or 15% if no other broker involved)
    Unit Sells for $40K (Broker may end up splitting commission with another broker)
    Seller Nets $32K

Owner Lists for $50K on Redweek
    Broker brings a buyer takes 15%
    Unit Sells for $40K
    Seller Nets $34K

Owner Lists for $50K
    No broker involved
    Unit Sells for $40K  * (or $35K for easy sale and both owner and seller benefit.)*
    Seller Nets $40K


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