# We Survived Marriott's Sales Presentation (barely)



## Lawlar (Jul 4, 2008)

A few months after buying our unit at MOC in 2007, a Marriott representative started calling me on my cell phone trying to get me to accept a weekend at NVC for a favorable rate in exchange for our attending a sales presentation.  I told him we weren’t interested in buying another TS.  This guy was persistent and he kept calling me every week or so.  After six months of his calling, we figured we would accept the offer and maybe we would learn something during the presentation while we got to see what NCV was like.

When we showed up for the Marriott presentation at NCV we were met by a pleasant woman (50ish) who introduced herself.  She started by telling us that since “this is Marriott” the time would be fun and there would be no pressure.  So we started off on a positive note and I was optimistic that we would learn more about Marriott’s activities. 

 I told the saleswoman in the beginning that we didn’t like NCV (beautiful units but too many people in the pool and Jacuzzi, too many steps, and too far from Disneyland).

Most of the presentation was spent on her trying to sell us on purchasing a unit at Ko Olini.  The pitch she gave us was that Marriott charged $16,000 at NCV during phase 1 and now NCV prices exceeded $32,000.  She said that today we have the same opportunity to get phase 1 pricing at Ko Olini.  Then she slyly added that in two years, if we wanted, Marriott could sell our unit for us.  She mumbled that there would be a willing buyer and willing seller (was that her disclaimer?).  The clear implication of what she was saying was that we would have a nice profit in a short period of time.  [She didn’t mention that timeshares sell at about 40% of retail, if you are lucky to find a buyer – also, I don’t believe Marriott acts as a resale broker before the complex is sold out.]

I told the saleswoman that I had recently rented a week at Timber Lodge for less than the maintenance fees and that a one-bedroom unit at Timber Lodge was recently offered for $6,000.  Frankly, I hoped this would shorten the presentation by letting her know that we weren’t interested in buying a new unit.  She responded by telling me that I wouldn’t want to buy resale.  She said Marriott puts a mark on its computer against anyone who owns from a source outside Marriott.  She said that within three years Marriott is going to be more exclusive and do all of its exchanges outside of II and that we wouldn’t want to be excluded from that process.

The saleswoman then told us that we could never buy a Marriott TS for less than a few thousand dollars from what Marriott sells its units for.  She said that Marriott would buy any timeshare offered for less than a few thousand dollars from the full price.  [using its ROFR]

About 90 minutes after the presentation began, the “closer” (described as her manager) came in to make his pitch.  He started by asking us how much we spend on a vacation a year.  I gave him a low-ball figure of $2,000 a year.  He then said that if we bought a TS for $32,000 and paid that $2,000 a year vacation money towards the purchase price then in ten years we would be able to vacation for free for life - and then leave it to our children so that they could enjoy free vacations.  All the while he scribbled his calculations on a piece of paper in front of us as though he were deciphering some great truth from the numbers.  [Yes, I realized that his math was completely wrong.  $2,000 a year for ten years is $20,000, not $32,000.  He failed to mention the 12.7% interest charge and the ever increasing maintenance fees.  In fact, they never once mentioned that a TS incurs a yearly maintenance fee.]

The closer then tried to sell us on Ko Olini.  We told him that because of the weak economy we weren’t interested in buying a TS.  We also told him we had been to Ko Olini and we didn’t like the resort. He then gave us his version of a history of recessions in this country and how the economy will pick up again.  He said this is a time of opportunity.  This guy talked nonstop and all my efforts to convince him that we weren’t interested in buying a TS had absolutely no effect on him.  

The closer kept asking for personal information about us to get an idea of what he thought we could afford.  He was very interested in the fact that we lived in Santa Barbara and that we had bought at MOC for $58,000.  [We should have told him we lived in a trailer in the desert and we were living on food stamps.  Once he believed we had money he wasn’t going to let us out of there without our buying something.]

After we kept saying no to his various offers, he said he needed to leave.  He said he would be back.  He then abruptly got up and left.  He didn’t ask us if we could wait for him or if we had other plans, he simply left us there wondering what happened.  The salesperson seemed startled and she said he must be working another room and so she left.  We sat there for 20 minutes waiting [If you have ever bought a car you know this routine.].  

After 20 minutes, the closer returned and said he had something special for us.  He said Marriott doesn’t bargain or lower their prices but we could get an EOY at Palm Desert by picking up a mortgage on a unit for $125 a month.  He made it sound like it was a foreclosure we could obtain.  He said the total price was $12,500.  He suggested that we were cheap if we wouldn’t spend that amount for our future enjoyment.  He kept saying things like “wouldn’t you spend $125 a month for something that would give you so much pleasure for years to come – that can be bought for only about the cost of one good dinner at a nice restaurant.”  

This closer had an unlimited number of sales pitches and he was intent on using every one of them on us no matter how much we protested that we weren’t interested.  Apparently this closer believed that if he kept talking we would eventually agree to buy something just to get him to shut up.

Bottom line:  We were trapped in this pressure cooker for about 2 ½ hours despite our best efforts to tell them that we had absolutely no intention of buying a TS.  We felt our afternoon had been wasted and we had been abused.  At the end we were given 15,000 points for attending the presentation (we had been promised a $50. shopping certificate, so my wife was really unhappy).

It is hard to have positive feelings about an ownership interest in a vacation villa that uses these types of sleazy sales tactics.  The fact that Marriott uses these tactics to sell their products to families that don’t realize that the salespeople are misrepresenting the value of a TS is really shameful.  In the long run Marriott is only going to hurt the value of their brand if they continue to use high-pressure fraudulent sales tactics.


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## jesuis1837 (Jul 4, 2008)

You know what? After i read your awful experience i hope you will write a very bad report on the email you will get shortly from MVC about your experience with your presentation.  I am glad i had mine the day after so i wrote what i liked the most (the woman kept it short, in fact it tooks us 30-40 min tops) and she kepts her promises. On your side, they were using high pressure tactics and were rude so dont be shy to let them MVC know about that experience on the email you will get soon from them!


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## CMF (Jul 4, 2008)

I had a very low pressure presentation at SurfWatch. Now I want to buy OceanWatch.

Charles


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## laxmom (Jul 4, 2008)

We have attented 4 Marriott sales pitches and never had an experience like what you described.  Sorry you had such an awful experience.  It actually reminds me of one we sat thru with Fairfield.  Please don't judge an entire company and its' salesforce based on one experience.  The only conclusion you can make is about those folks you encountered at NCV.  If it happens again, by all means, a broader conclusion can be supported.  Our experience has been much like Charles' - very low pressure.


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## thinze3 (Jul 4, 2008)

*Lawler*

I have read some of your posts before and have come away with a feeling that you have a few small regrets about buying directly from Marriott. Experiences like this can't do anything but make those feelings worse.

*I say KUDOS to you for hanging tuff!*

You have one of the greatest Marriott units money can buy. ENJOY IT for years to come. PLEASE DON'T feel animosity toward Marriott beacause of one knuckle-brained salesman, as you may find that many are actually very pleasant.

You will get better at making these presentations more bearable. You can actually use them to find out the latest information about changes to the resort at which you are staying, and information about local restaurants and activities.

Remember, NEVER trust what the salesmen are saying about the Marriott system. That's what TUG is for.

Terry


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## CATBinCO (Jul 4, 2008)

We did the presentation at NCV too just a few weeks ago (mid-June). I wonder if it was the same numbers guy we had. The regular salesman who walked around w/ us was VERY pleasant. But the numbers guy - wow. We kept saying no, no, no and he was very persistent. We turned down every year Platinum ($33K), EOY Platinum ($20K) and he tried to show us other cheaper Marriott properties and we just kept saying no. After 2 hours later, we left with a $150 gift card to Fashion Island (we weren't in the Rewards program at the time....I have since opened an acct. to start). We could have gotten the 15K points instead but I wanted to go shopping!

I liked NCV for several reasons, mostly because I am from So Cal, my Mom and sister still live there, and I can see all my old friends when I visit. I was born and raised in So Cal, so I have a lot of ties. 

But the presentation TOTALLY left us with a sour taste. My husband actually said to me when we left, "NEVER AGAIN".


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## jscboston (Jul 4, 2008)

I genuinely believe that Marriott does not want salespeople like this on staff (though I'm sure there will be replies to the contrary on this board).  

You will receive an evaluation form from Marriott after attending the presentation, and I encourage you to be brutally honest when you fill it out.  One bad evaluation may not doom a salesperson, but if they get several others that basically say the same thing the person will not be around for very long.  Marriott has a great reputation in the hotel and timeshare business, and they can't afford to risk it.


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## TheTimeTraveler (Jul 4, 2008)

Best thing to do when you enter these presentations is to let them know up front that you have no intention in buying, but are attending solely for the free gift.

They can spend as much time as they want, but it will be wasted time on everyone's part.

If they know up front that's there is no expectation of a sale then they usually want to move along to some fresh fish in the pond on not spin their wheels.

It's always worked for us, and we're usually out of there within minutes.


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## pwrshift (Jul 4, 2008)

I've heard that the quickest sales presentation comes if you take out a little recording device and place it on the table - telling them you want to make sure you don't miss a word so you can review it later, after you've gone home without buying.  If they tell a lie on tape, send it to JW Marriott himself!  If they are afraid of being recorded and refuse, tell them goodbye.

I simply won't spend a couple of hours with sales reps to 'earn' a few points or $150 certificate when I bill more than that to my customers for my time.  Yet, while I've never attended a group sales presentation, I did buy 6 of them.


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## Lawlar (Jul 4, 2008)

*Optimists*

I did as some of you suggested and wrote a really negative review when Marriott sent me its survey form.  THAT FELT GREAT!!!

I hope you optimists who have had positive experiences with Marriott are right.  The idea of TSing is appealing, except for the way it is conducted (unseemly sales tactics and high prices/fees).

My two experiences with Marriott's sales staff have been negative.  The first, when we bought, resulted in my making a purchase based on a big fat lie (the salesperson told me that no one would have the right to reserve a week before us and that we would have no trouble getting summer dates - then I discovered the 13 month rule when I got home).

From now on we are staying away from the sales folks.  When I meet people that have just bought from Marriott I will put them onto TUG immediately (I might even fill out their recission form for free - even though I am retired!).


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## Potential Buyer Scott (Jul 4, 2008)

I agree that it usually isn't worth the hassle to sit through it for what you get.  The exception is the trip packages.  

Two years ago I agreed to sit through one and in return got 5 days at Kuaui beach club in an ocean front unit, a rental car and a $100 Marriott gift certificate for $399.  

We sat through a pretty high pressure pitch at Waiohai and it lasted over 2 hours.  We told him we were visiting Grande Ocean in a couple months and wouldn't decide on any purchase until we had visited both.  He just wouldn't give up no matter how many times I repeated that.

Still, I felt like it was worth it for the awesome vacation, but if I had to go through that for $150 I would have been really mad. 

Glad you feel better after the survey.  Also, remember that ironically we TUGGERS rely on those sales tactics to fuel the resale market.  If they don't make a lot of those sales, then the 2 great resales I bought might not have been available or available so cheaply.  

Maybe next time I should congratulate him on his pressuring technique and suggest a few improvements that will help him make more cheap resale units available for me the TUG member and resale only buyer who is only here for the deal.  I bet that would end the meeting more quickly.

PBS


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## winger (Jul 4, 2008)

been to maybe 8 or so marriott presentations so far and never experienced this kind of baloney, but we sat through something similar over 10yrs ago at I believe a Westgate in Orlando. It sucked .

our ncv presentation last week went only 40 mins including the socializing in the waiting room and all the talk of the rep's actor brother (that really got the ladies going...oh, it was a group tour w/ our friends). we both told the rep upfront we were not buying, but only wanted updates and were already marriott owners.


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## pfrass (Jul 4, 2008)

It would seem sensible for Marriott to accomodate those persons that want to see the resort without having to sit through a sales presentation.  I have seen several such posts on TUG where people say they clearly have no intention to buy, but go to the presentation, whether it be for some freebie or to see the grounds.  In any event, realistically, the purpose of having the presentation is to sell the week, not to show you around.  Of course, that doesn't excuse misinformation or high-pressure sales tactics, but I question the appropriateness of people going simply to get a gift.  It would certainly be nice for Marriott to arrange for a quick grounds tour by a non-sales individual (with no freebie) and no obligation to listen to the sales pitch, which would help.  If you make your intentions clear that you would not consider a purchase, the highest ethical ground would be to not show up or decline the gift.


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## Carol C (Jul 4, 2008)

pfrass said:


> It would seem sensible for Marriott to accomodate those persons that want to see the resort without having to sit through a sales presentation.  I have seen several such posts on TUG where people say they clearly have no intention to buy, but go to the presentation, whether it be for some freebie or to see the grounds.  In any event, realistically, the purpose of having the presentation is to sell the week, not to show you around.  Of course, that doesn't excuse misinformation or high-pressure sales tactics, but I question the appropriateness of people going simply to get a gift.  It would certainly be nice for Marriott to arrange for a quick grounds tour by a non-sales individual (with no freebie) and no obligation to listen to the sales pitch, which would help.  If you make your intentions clear that you would not consider a purchase, the highest ethical ground would be to not show up or decline the gift.



We showed up at the Marriott in Mallorca without getting an invitation or seeing a promotion. We wanted to see a unit so a salesgal was assigned to take us around. We were then taken to a table where she immediately produced a price card, but we told her we're not buying since we already own Marriott and can exchange in. She told us the demand is so high that there is no way we could ever exchange in. Of course since then I've seen plenty Mallorca Marriott weeks...all times but prime summer...sitting online with my dinky Vail Streamside studio or another II week. 
Anyway, we weren't offered a gift and wouldn't buy, and we got to see inside their 3 br villa and see the grounds. It was worth about 45 min of our time.

As for the original poster, I've never experienced such hardcore sales tactics from a Marriott sales rep. I don't think we've ever been subjected to a second person like a sales mgr or closer. I wonder if Newport Coast is in trouble and not meeting its sales goals.


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## pwrshift (Jul 4, 2008)

I'm not a shopper but I am a buyer.  Long past the days of window-shopping, I decide what I want at a store and order online so I can just run in and pick up what I've ordered or have it shipped to me.  Did the same with my Marriott direct purchases - no sales presenations - just did my research before and called my reps to courier the papers to me and to sweeten the 'points' package because it was to their advantage.  Always got more than the give at the presentations.  Easy for all and no wasted time for little return.

Brian


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## winger (Jul 4, 2008)

imo marriott have closers that come in different shades...some offers pre-paid packages (say $995) to come back and visit within a years, some come with other resorts at lower costs, some come out and reiterate the value of ts'ing, etc.


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## dioxide45 (Jul 4, 2008)

Lawlar said:


> This guy was persistent and he kept calling me every week or so.  After six months of his calling, we figured we would accept the offer and maybe we would learn something during the presentation while we got to see what NCV was like.



The goal of the guy who was trying to sell the package is to get you in the door. It doesn't matter to them if you don't want to buy, their paycheck is determined on how many people they sell the package to. There might be additional bonuses if the people they get in end up buying, but I would think the bulk of their paycheck comes from selling the packages.


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## CATBinCO (Jul 4, 2008)

I agree with Brian (pwrshift) above - will remember that. 

I was emailing a Marriott sales rep in Florida back and forth a few weeks ago, would for sure prefer that route instead of the 2 hr presentation (unless it was a nice package deal like the Kauai one mentioned above.)


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## mas (Jul 4, 2008)

I've sat thru many Marriott T/S presentations and never had a high pressure sales tactic situation.  I have sat thru a couple of ugly high pressure presentations at Lawrence Welk and Kona Coast(Shell Vacations).  Both of those were 2 hrs + and really awful.  They reminded me of what has been reported here about Wastegate.


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## fmr MVCI (Jul 4, 2008)

Most marriott sales executives (and other ts salespeople), including telesales, really do not know how the program works.  They don't own, don't exchange, and just go by what their sales trainer told them.

Marriott is really just a bit better than the industry average.


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## winger (Jul 4, 2008)

fmr MVCI said:


> Most marriott sales executives (and other ts salespeople), including telesales, really do not know how the program works.  They don't own, don't exchange, and just go by what their sales trainer told them.
> 
> Marriott is really just a bit better than the industry average.



why doesn't Marriott just lend one unit to each 'proven' sales rep so he can first-hand experience the upsides and downsides of their own product? Have them pay maybe 1/2 the MF and subsidize the other 1/2.  once his employment with MVCI ends, take the unit back.


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## dioxide45 (Jul 4, 2008)

winger said:


> why doesn't Marriott just lend one unit to each 'proven' sales rep so he can first-hand experience the upsides and downsides of their own product? Have them pay maybe 1/2 the MF and subsidize the other 1/2.  once his employment with MVCI ends, take the unit back.



Why would they do this? All salespeople already own several weeks at the resorts they sell. Or thats what each of them has claimed at the presentations we have been to.


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## KathyPet (Jul 4, 2008)

We have attended "sales presentatioins" at Surf Watch and st, Kitts in the last three years.  We told the sales person as soon as we hit the door that we already own 3 Marriotts and had no intention of purchasing any more.  

In both cases we were in and out in under 45 minutes which included a tour of the grounds and a look at the units.  The sales people were as happy to get rid of us as we were to get rid of them.  They  wanted to get rid of us so they could get to the next "real" prospect.  I had no problem with that.


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## winger (Jul 4, 2008)

dioxide45 said:


> Why would they do this? All salespeople already own several weeks at the resorts they sell. Or thats what each of them has claimed at the presentations we have been to.



my suggestion only applies if the rep does not own a marriott resort, as the previous poster states.  if a company's reps bases everything about its product (including use of the trading and points system in the ts world) on training/books only, my suggestion may likely improve their understanding of the product, which should improve the indo they claim/give at presentations. this is basically a relatively inexpensive way of investing in one's employees


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## Steel5Rings (Jul 4, 2008)

CATBinCO said:


> We did the presentation at NCV too just a few weeks ago (mid-June). I wonder if it was the same numbers guy we had. The regular salesman who walked around w/ us was VERY pleasant. But the numbers guy - wow. We kept saying no, no, no and he was very persistent. We turned down every year Platinum ($33K), EOY Platinum ($20K) and he tried to show us other cheaper Marriott properties and we just kept saying no. After 2 hours later, we left with a $150 gift card to Fashion Island (we weren't in the Rewards program at the time....I have since opened an acct. to start). We could have gotten the 15K points instead but I wanted to go shopping!
> 
> I liked NCV for several reasons, mostly because I am from So Cal, my Mom and sister still live there, and I can see all my old friends when I visit. I was born and raised in So Cal, so I have a lot of ties.
> 
> But the presentation TOTALLY left us with a sour taste. My husband actually said to me when we left, "NEVER AGAIN".



Wife and I took the tour at NCV last year......I thought it was a little bit on the high pressure side.  We chatted with the salesperson for about an hour, told him what locations we would consider talking about and the price we would be willing to pay.....Then the closer came in and held us hostage for the next 90 minutes at almost 3 hours into the thing we just got up and walked out.....our promotion gift was delivered to our villa later that day.


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## pcgirl54 (Jul 5, 2008)

I do not go to sales presentations normally as I do not want to lose 2 hrs vacation time. It is too exhausting to me.But last year I did preview Hyatt and this year the Westin Maui as we were unfamilar with those brands.

Marco Island trip 2007-Eagle's Nest and Charter Club have rooms to preview, no gift,no pressure and pleasant to deal with. About 20-30 minutes of one's time and the rep gives you price sheets. I saw units and the grounds. Super beach and reasonably priced units.

Hyatt Bonita Beach-I did pop in to Hyatt Coconut Plantation on the same trip due to the brand name and desirable area. You can preview a unit in the sales center for 15 minutes no hassles at all with no gift. Great sales rep Tracy,knowledgable and no pressure. She was terrific. What a place but not beachfront.

2008 Westin Maui-We have never toured Westin or been to Hawaii we decided to take the tour and 7500 Starwood points knowing it would be 2 hrs. We did have a sales person and 2 closers. All were non pressure and cordial tried to close us and realised we were not buying after 3-4 tries. Most Westins and Hyatts are in the West or Pacific states with the exception of a few. I must say Westin Maui and Hyatt Coconut are pretty impressive. I would not be trading if I owned them.

Lawlar-I would also write a letter to MVCI President Steve Weisz . This is not the first time I have read about negative sales tactics from a Tug member for NCV. Normally Marriott is not that that type of presentation.


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## Lawlar (Jul 5, 2008)

*Westin Was More Professional*



pcgirl54 said:


> I do not go to sales presentations normally as I do not want to lose 2 hrs vacation time. It is too exhausting to me.But last year I did preview Hyatt and this year the Westin Maui as we were unfamilar with those brands.
> 
> 
> 2008 Westin Maui-We have never toured Westin or been to Hawaii we decided to take the tour and 7500 Starwood points knowing it would be 2 hrs. We did have a sales person and 2 closers. All were non pressure and cordial tried to close us and realised we were not buying after 3-4 tries. Most Westins and Hyatts are in the West or Pacific states with the exception of a few. I must say Westin Maui and Hyatt Coconut are pretty impressive. I would not be trading if I owned them.



It is interesting that you mentioned Westin.  We stayed at the Westin Hotel in Maui last August.  We attended the sales presentation and it was pretty professional.  There was a little fudging on the numbers they gave us about how much we would save on future vacations – and the closer mentioned how high Hawaii land prices were.  But there were no suggestions that we would turn a profit in two years.  After an hour or so (which included the bus trip to the Villas) we said we would think about it and they thanked us for our time.  They told us we could come back and they would be happy to talk with us some more. They even offered to buy our lunch. 

The Westin salesman mentioned that he was selling one out of every two prospects, so they didn’t seem pressed to force a sale.

After the Westin presentation we decided to buy a TS, but with Marriott because we are Awards Members, we used to stay at the Marriott hotel, and we like that part of the beach.  [We would have bought from Westin if their Villas were adjacent to the Westin Hotel, which has wonderful restaurants and a great pool.]

  So we walked over to Marriott and announced that we wanted to purchase a unit (they must have thought we were a gift from heaven).  In effect, we bought a Marriott TS because of the Westin sales presentation (we never took the Marriott sales presentation in Maui – but the sales rep still had time to tell us a couple of big fibs).


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## pcgirl54 (Jul 5, 2008)

Lawler.
We just loved Maui. Beautiful and laid back just what we wanted. Even though you had a terrible experience at NCV just think about your wonderful Maui TS. If I lived in the west coast I would  buy something in Hawaii. Maui is the only island we have visited so I am not sure about the others.

So far for us Marriott works best for where we live and because of the variety of resorts.


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## jscboston (Jul 5, 2008)

Carol C said:


> We showed up at the Marriott in Mallorca without getting an invitation or seeing a promotion. We wanted to see a unit so a salesgal was assigned to take us around. We were then taken to a table where she immediately produced a price card, ....  Anyway, we weren't offered a gift and wouldn't buy, and we got to see inside their 3 br villa and see the grounds. It was worth about 45 min of our time.
> 
> I did the same thing at Grande Chateau in Vegas.  I told the receptionist that I was already a MVCI owner, wanted to see a unit and price list, had only 15 minutes, and didn't have my wife with me so I couldn't buy.  They got a salesman who specializes in selling to existing owners who gave me exactly what I wanted in 15 minutes.  He told me to call him if I wanted to buy, and then he left me alone.  This was great for me - and far better than going through the whole schpiel just to get some free stuff.


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## Delicate Arch (Jul 5, 2008)

We did a presentation at Ko Olina two weeks ago. We own several MVCIs and have done a lot of these presentations (mostly for the gifts, usually to see the plans, and in general I know more than the sales people). 

This presentation was MUCH higher pressure and although we said no, no, no, we felt trapped. I too came away saying never again. 

Maybe they are getting desperate.


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## OWMBGV (Jul 5, 2008)

After my last presentation (Surf Watch), I just will not do another one. After going through about 1 hour of presentation and telling the salesperson that we are not interested in buying, the closer came in and held us captive for another hour to 1 1/2 hrs.  We just gave up, said yes, signed the papers and cancelled the next day.


As someone posted earlier - the sales person knew absolutely nothing about the program or much less than I do. The Marriott math was amazing.  I have done about 5 presentations before this one, all were very low key and quite enjoyable - the last one turned me off completely.


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## winger (Jul 5, 2008)

guys. just tell the sales rep in the beginning during intros that u r only doing this for the gift. say u have a dinner engagement at such such time which is 90 mins when ur appt time is NOT the 10 mins or whenever the guy shows up (last week our appt was for 1030, when the guys showed up at about 1045, we said 'hey there. We just wanted to let u know we are only doing this to get an update on NCV and for the MRPs. We will not be buying anything today. BTW ,our 90 mins presentation was scheduled for 1030 and it is now 1045 so we only have until 12 noon with you before we have to go xxxxx with our kids. How about we get started?'
 . 

This has not failed us yet.


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## taffy19 (Jul 5, 2008)

Lawlar, I am really sorry you had such a bad experience at the Marriott NCVs. We did a tour there when it first opened and there was no closer but it seems to be different there now. I have done quite a few updates several times at all the resorts in HI and have never experienced a bad presentation. I told them right up front that I wasn't going to buy but wanted brochures and prices and they made it short. We both took an update at the MOC together and really liked it but said no and our sales lady was very professional and left us with a smile. We went back the next day because I wanted to buy there but again, we didn't buy and she never pushed us and we came back a third time and finally bought. I kept thinking I am out of my mind to buy retail again but we did.  Our sales lady never lied to us because we never discussed exchanging or renting it out for a profit. I don't think she would have lied anyway. 

You bought a fixed week in January but exchanges will be handled like all other exchanges so you need two units in order to make reservations 13 months out and ocean front doesn't give you any advantage either. _You need to try to get the best week for making an exchange which would be a holiday week_. I don't even believe that you can mix floating weeks with fixed weeks unless the dates line up exactly. Also, when you split your week, you may not get an oceanfront unit for your second half of your week even at your own resort. I remember her telling us that. There are other ways to do it and get what you want. 

*PS. I was wrong here because you have a fixed week so you cannot try to get the best week for exchanging like a holiday week.*


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## Lawlar (Jul 5, 2008)

*No Exchanges For Us*



iconnections said:


> You bought a fixed week in January but exchanges will be handled like all other exchanges so you need two units in order to make reservations 13 months out and ocean front doesn't give you any advantage either. _You need to try to get the best week for making an exchange which would be a holiday week_. I don't even believe that you can mix floating weeks with fixed weeks unless the dates line up exactly. [/COLOR][/B]



We decided that rather than rescind (or take drastic action) we would accept Marriott's offer to convert our unit to a fixed week.  We will never exchange.  We like the idea of going the same week every year (and the grandkid gets to take a week away from school).

I have read so many complaints from those with floating weeks about the difficulty of getting a decent reservations that we decided we would not put up with that [I believe you have done the same thing].  

By the way, I noticed that someone with week 5 (we have week 4) just listed their unit on Redweek.  I am wondering if it would be advantageous to list our unit in the event that someone wants to buy two consecutive weeks (my wife gave me a dirty look when I sugested this).  I might list our unit just to see if the Gods grant us a miracle.  

Sorry I'm getting way off topic.


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## davidvel (Jul 5, 2008)

pfrass said:


> It would seem sensible for Marriott to accomodate those persons that want to see the resort without having to sit through a sales presentation.


That is what sensible people think about. Marriott wants to sell, not be sensible, as you say:


pfrass said:


> In any event, realistically, the purpose of having the presentation is to sell the week, not to show you around.





pfrass said:


> but I question the appropriateness of people going simply to get a gift.



I would question the appropriateness of someone saying "we just want to show you around, *there is no obligation*, we understand you are just looking and have no interest, why not take the tour and get the free gifts? blah, blah, blah," but then having some objection to someone having NO intention of buying based upon thier own evalaution of the purchase beforehand. 

Marriott wants to bring as many people therough the doors believing that they can convince enough people to buy to make it worth their while. (This is no different than Model Homes giving free cookies and sodas for all who pass through the doors.) Many of those same people have the right to collect the incentives for spending/ wasting/giving the salesperson the chance to sell during their vaction/ time. If Marriott had a policy to exclude any person who states "I don't intend to buy" before the presentation, then I would feel bad. Fat chance.


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## KDD (Jul 6, 2008)

Wow.  I am surprised. NCV is our resort and we own several weeks, two from developer and one from a TUG resale.  We've never had a pressured presentation at NCV, but the last presentation was two years ago, so maybe things have changed.  I really dont remember any 'closer' coming in before. We were invited to take another presentation when we stay in a few weeks, and after reading this all, I'd just love to get that closer and give him a piece of my mind.  I imagine a few others reading these posts would too.  I suspect a number of us, forewarned, can come in prepared and loaded for bear.


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## aka Julie (Jul 6, 2008)

*The "Closer" (not the TV show)*

We had a "closer" last November in Canyon Villas in Phoenix.  We repeatedly told him that we weren't interested in buying anything at that time.  When he finally got the message, he abruptly left the room without saying anything.  I thought it was quite rude.  When we left the sales person we had one more person to go through to "evaluate" the sales person (new) and then were hit with the offer to pay a certain amount now in order to come back within a year (I can't remember all the details).


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## taffy19 (Jul 6, 2008)

KDD said:


> Wow.  I am surprised. NCV is our resort and we own several weeks, two from developer and one from a TUG resale.  We've never had a pressured presentation at NCV, but the last presentation was two years ago, so maybe things have changed.  I really dont remember any 'closer' coming in before. We were invited to take another presentation when we stay in a few weeks, and after reading this all,* I'd just love to get that closer and give him a piece of my mind.  I imagine a few others reading these posts would too*.  I suspect a number of us, forewarned, can come in prepared and loaded for bear.


Me too.   All I would ask him is to put that in writing and you are out of any timeshare presentation pretty quick.  We recently did this in Mexico with an update and that was the end of our meeting.  No salesman anywhere wants to lie on paper because you have proof of their lies.  

I would love to go and see the NCVs again and we keep receiving invitations too but my SO says no every time again so I can't go.  I still could drive by one day and ask in person to see the resort but will get no points or anything which is fine with me.  I know what the units look like because we stayed there once a week.  I can imagine that it is getting very crowded with so many units but the location is great but not on the beach.


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## taffy19 (Jul 6, 2008)

Lawlar said:


> By the way, I noticed that someone with week 5 (we have week 4) just listed their unit on Redweek.  I am wondering if it would be advantageous to list our unit in the event that someone wants to buy two consecutive weeks (my wife gave me a dirty look when I sugested this).  I might list our unit just to see if the Gods grant us a miracle.
> 
> Sorry I'm getting way off topic.


Not a bad idea as so many people there have bought multiple weeks on a row as staying one single week in Hawaii is hardly worth it anymore with the expensive airline fares today.  If you are really unhappy, I would try it and see what happens.  I also would contact the other buyer so you can both tell a prospective buyer that there are two weeks available on a row.  The buyer gets it a lot cheaper than if he would buy from the Marriott direct.  January has to be very popular too, I would think.  The whales are there too and many people like the winter months.  We were there in January and we didn't have any rain but it can rain as it is the rainy season.  Good luck with whatever you decide.


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## gomike (Jul 7, 2008)

After reading these posts I am left wondering why you did not leave the presentation after 90 min?  That is what you agreed to when you signed up for the preview.


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## davewasbaloo (Jul 7, 2008)

Wow, I think we lucked out.

At our Paris presentation we had a great experience. We were there for 3 hours and drinking champagne, but we were negotiating the best deal to buy as we knew we were likely to buy as DVC is a waste in Europe unless you always want to go to WDW (which we don't). Fab - and we have made friends with our rep now!

In Mallorca, we exchanged in off peak. Had a fabulous session where we just chatted with our rep from Italy, and she updated us on developments and prices. We covered some referrals and left 45 mins later, had a fab time, more champagne and left with some points.

Newport Coast - the worst one of the lot (but still good). We talked a while, and the rep was a Disneyland fan and Club 33 member, so we mostly spoke about DL and then Dubai developments. It was not too bad, we just had to wait for a while for it to begin. But we never got our points :-(

We'll have to see what it is like in Playa Andaluzia in February, where we traded in.


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## winger (Jul 7, 2008)

iconnections said:


> Me too.   All I would ask him is to put that in writing and you are out of any timeshare presentation pretty quick.  We recently did this in Mexico with an update and that was the end of our meeting.  No salesman anywhere wants to lie on paper because you have proof of their lies.
> ....



Put *what *in writing ???  You lost me there.


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## winger (Jul 7, 2008)

davewasbaloo said:


> ...Newport Coast - the worst one of the lot (but still good). We talked a while, and the rep was a Disneyland fan and Club 33 member, so we mostly spoke about DL and then Dubai developments. It was not too bad, we just had to wait for a while for it to begin. *But we never got our points *:-(
> 
> ....


You mean Marriott/Newport has not given you your preview points?  How long has it been?


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## davewasbaloo (Jul 7, 2008)

Indeed. It was the 28th of Feb if memory serves.


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## winger (Jul 7, 2008)

davewasbaloo said:


> Indeed. It was the 28th of Feb if memory serves.


Hmmm. Each time I attended a Marriott preview, points showed up within 1-2 weeks.  I will be looking out for mine, we attended a NCV presentation on 6/23


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## lll1929 (Jul 7, 2008)

*Will Marriott Invite me to a presentation??*

In May of this year, I attend a sales presentation at Marriott Surf Club for 15000 MR pts.  I stayed at the Rennaisance.  In Sept of this year, I will be residing at the Marriott Surf Club.  Will they offer me an opportunity to attend although I have attended in the last few months?  If so, will they offer me an incentive?


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## IngridN (Jul 7, 2008)

lll1929 said:


> In May of this year, I attend a sales presentation at Marriott Surf Club for 15000 MR pts.  I stayed at the Rennaisance.  In Sept of this year, I will be residing at the Marriott Surf Club.  Will they offer me an opportunity to attend although I have attended in the last few months?  If so, will they offer me an incentive?



I'm sure they will offer you an opportunity to attend  , however, you are only eligible for the incentives once every 12 months at the Surf Club.

Ingrid


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## lll1929 (Jul 7, 2008)

Thanks Ingrid, I will pass.


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## taffy19 (Jul 7, 2008)

winger said:


> Put *what *in writing ??? You lost me there.


Anything what they promise you but is not in writing in the contract. For instance when they say it is an investment or you can rent it out or you will always get your choice of exchanges, etc. They seem to make these statements at many resorts but TUGgers know better than to believe it but this is not the case for people, who have never taken a timeshare presentation before. 

They are so overwhelmed with all what is said at a presentation and the paperwork you get is much too long to read over while you are there. This is why you have the rescission period so you can do it later but people are on vacation so don't do it and that is what these resorts hope for. No wonder the industry has such a bad name while timesharing itself is really great as it beats any hotel room.


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## Lawlar (Jul 7, 2008)

*Paperwork and - Would you believe pictures?*



iconnections said:


> They are so overwhelmed with all what is said at a presentation and the paperwork you get is much too long to read over while you are there. This is why you have the rescission period so you can do it later but people are on vacation so don't do it and that is what these resorts hope for. No wonder the industry has such a bad name while timesharing itself is really great as it beats any hotel room.



Anytime you buy something, and they have to give you a big bag to carry all of the paperwork home, you know you have been had.  After 30 years of practicing law I am pretty good at reading contracts - But the Marriott paperwork would require days of effort and cross-checking to understand.  To make it worse, the paperwork refers to items that aren't even in the papers they give you.  What a joke!

Oh, and by the way, did they take a picture of you right after you signed your contract?  They took two of us.  I'm sure that picture is in our file as evidence that we really were there to sign the contract and that we sober at the time (out of our minds, but sober).  Now even my most dishonest sales clients, from my lawyering days, didn't need to take pictures of their victums to prove that they signed the contract.


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## pwrshift (Jul 7, 2008)

But, when you get married and sign the papers you get your picture taken too.  

Brian


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## TheTimeTraveler (Jul 7, 2008)

If they took pictures at the signing then it sounds like someone wanted to cherish the moment


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## taffy19 (Jul 7, 2008)

Lawlar said:


> Anytime you buy something, and they have to give you a big bag to carry all of the paperwork home, you know you have been had. After 30 years of practicing law I am pretty good at reading contracts - But the Marriott paperwork would require days of effort and cross-checking to understand. To make it worse, the paperwork refers to items that aren't even in the papers they give you. What a joke!
> 
> Oh, and by the way, did they take a picture of you right after you signed your contract? They took two of us. I'm sure that picture is in our file as evidence that we really were there to sign the contract and that we sober at the time (out of our minds, but sober). Now even my most dishonest sales clients, from my lawyering days, didn't need to take pictures of their victums to prove that they signed the contract.


 
Yes, our saleslady took a picture of us but we also took a picture of one of us with her. We really liked her and she didn't tell us any lies and we are still in touch with her. We have no hard feelings and If we ever would buy another Marriott direct, we would buy from her as she can sell anything but that won't happen. We are timeshared out but will keep what we have and use it, hopefully. 

I agree with you that the resort directories are very misleading and certainly when the developers make you believe that it is so easy to go anywhere your heart desires. It ain't so. Also the contract and all the legalese in all the other documents is way too hard for me to understand. I guess, it would be very smart to have a lawyer look the contract over and see if it is OK.  I am sure you agree with that.


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## ira g (Jul 7, 2008)

*One month and still no MRP*



winger said:


> Hmmm. Each time I attended a Marriott preview, points showed up within 1-2 weeks.  I will be looking out for mine, we attended a NCV presentation on 6/23



We attended a TS presentation at Canyon Villas in Phoenix on June 6th and they still have not credited our points. I called and they said it could take 6- 10 weeks. It seems they are either totally disorganized or maybe they think we will forget and not follow up. I guarantee neither will happen. They wasted 2 hours of my time with a TS salesman who didn't listen to what I was saying but had a script to follow.


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## winger (Jul 7, 2008)

TheTimeTraveler said:


> If they took pictures at the signing then it sounds like someone wanted to cherish the moment



yeh, notice how when sports fisherman lands a big one, he would wanna pic of the big catch to hang on the wall as a trophy to brag to his buddies about?  well, in this case, let's just say you ain't the fishermanm


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## taffy19 (Jul 7, 2008)

Winger, are you saying that people who buy from the developer are all suckers?  We may be but if we don't, you can't buy them re-sale.  Somebody has to do it.


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## aka Julie (Jul 7, 2008)

ira g said:


> We attended a TS presentation at Canyon Villas in Phoenix on June 6th and they still have not credited our points. I called and they said it could take 6- 10 weeks. It seems they are either totally disorganized or maybe they think we will forget and not follow up. I guarantee neither will happen. They wasted 2 hours of my time with a TS salesman who didn't listen to what I was saying but had a script to follow.



Here is our most recent experiences with posting of MR for sales presentations:

Surfwatch -- presentation on 3/25/08; date points posted 4/17/08
Canyon Villas -- presentation on 11/20/07; date points posted 12/04/07


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## capjak (Jul 7, 2008)

gomike said:


> After reading these posts I am left wondering why you did not leave the presentation after 90 min?  That is what you agreed to when you signed up for the preview.



We do this everytime, especially if pushy salesperson.

The documentation states approximately 90 minutes or 2 hours sometimes.

We go in listen let them know we are not interested ant that they only have 90 minutes to get through there presentation and than we are out of there no matter what.


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## jlr10 (Jul 7, 2008)

We traded into Waiohai and agreed to take the tour, for Marriott dollars.  We told them at the time we scheduled we would be interested in learning about the resort and more detail of the system, but were not in a position to purchase anything until our (then) 16 year old completed college.  They set us up with a young couple, who owned no timeshares, and asked us to share our experiences with Marriott, with this couple.  "All Marriott owners are happy owners and the best sale people we have."  We have really enjoyed our trades, and so we gave a favorable review of the Marriott system.  The sales rep was mostly honest, he hedged a bit on  resale, but did not put a large amount of pressure on either couple, when it became clear that no purchase was being made that day.  We all were out in about 45 minutes, and then I gave the couple the TUG website and told them to look there before they made any purchase.

We also did a tour at Ko'Olina.  We told them up front there was not going to be a sale.  We pointed out that since Marriott didn't want to take our DSVII summer unit in trade we were happy with what we had, and were not in a position to add anymore as we already owned a nonMarriott week on Kauai.  We were out in 20 minutes.

We did a tour at KBC and had some pressure to purchase at Waiohai, which was still in construction at the time.  She was fairly insistant that we would be missing out, and then tried to pull our son into the discussion "Michael wouldn't you like to be in this room when you come to Hawaii?"  (they picked the wrong person, he "doesn't like going to Hellwaii, period.")  We were still out in less than 90 minutes. 

I agree if you tell them up front it helps.  But some salespeople just don't get that they are wasting their time, even when they are told.


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## winger (Jul 8, 2008)

iconnections said:


> Winger, are you saying that people who buy from the developer are all suckers?  We may be but if we don't, you can't buy them re-sale.  Somebody has to do it.


Damo, TUGGers never rest! I edited my post as soon as I thought someone may 'misinterpret' my use of words.  

Hey, also if no one buys direct, we won't have preview packages !!!  Anyways, we purhased direct even AFTER we found TUG    LOL maybe I'm a swordfish too LOL


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## winger (Jul 8, 2008)

http://www.flickr.com/photos/kimdog/2987753/


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## taffy19 (Jul 8, 2008)

winger said:


> Damo, TUGGers never rest! I edited my post as soon as I thought someone may 'misinterpret' my use of words.
> 
> Hey, also if no one buys direct, we won't have preview packages !!! Anyways, we purhased direct even AFTER we found TUG  LOL maybe I'm a swordfish too LOL


It didn't bother me as we were suckers.     Timeshare presentations are not good for us as it was hard for us to say no but we no longer feel that way thanks to TUG.


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## davewasbaloo (Jul 8, 2008)

We bought direct, but in Europe, the resale market is smaller, and there are more laws to protect us.  to me, buying with MVCI was one of the smartest things we have done!


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