# Upset owners at Desert Canyon Villas



## cruisin (Mar 28, 2010)

Last week a pretty upset group of owners, could not book the next year, huge group tried at 6am, all complaing about what they were promised,

 Marriott was renting the same weeks for next year  to people purchasing timeshares for $1800, owners pretty upset about it. The owners  definitely understand how to get what they wanted, but couldn't, and really bothered that Marriott had reserved them for sales promotions.

Marriott still has 20% of inventory, so who knows how they book that. I also explained that whenever a platinum owner turns in their week for points, I am guessing marriott books that week for what benefits them. It was interesting to watch, the lady running the meeting got caught in a buzzsaw


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## James1975NY (Mar 29, 2010)

cruisin said:


> Last week a pretty upset group of owners, could not book the next year, huge group tried at 6am, all complaing about what they were promised,
> 
> Marriott was renting the same weeks for next year  to people purchasing timeshares for $1800, owners pretty upset about it. The owners  definitely understand how to get what they wanted, but couldn't, and really bothered that Marriott had reserved them for sales promotions.
> 
> Marriott still has 20% of inventory, so who knows how they book that. I also explained that whenever a platinum owner turns in their week for points, I am guessing marriott books that week for what benefits them. It was interesting to watch, the lady running the meeting got caught in a buzzsaw



Marriott cannot rent units unless:
 - Owners convert to points (Marriott rents the inventory out to cover the cost of the points)
 - Unsold developer inventory
 - Owner requested specific week to be in rental pool.
 - Owner in lock-out status (delinquent maintenance fees)


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## dougp26364 (Mar 29, 2010)

James1975NY said:


> Marriott cannot rent units unless:
> - Owners convert to points (Marriott rents the inventory out to cover the cost of the points)
> - Unsold developer inventory
> - Owner requested specific week to be in rental pool.
> - Owner in lock-out status (delinquent maintenance fees)



Wasn't the point that Marriott still owns 20% of the inventory and used their ownership to book one of the most sought after weeks, blocking those that paid to be owners from their full enjoyment of their ownership? #2 on your list is unsold developer inventory. The owners are upset because Marriott has an unfair advantage to book the most popular week. That is they ARE the reservation system. Marriott can book any week it wants at zero hour before the first phone call is taken. By allowing sales and marketing to book ahead or at the same time owners can book is an abuse of power. Marriott should be called on it and owners should do whatever they can to stop Marriott from abusing that power.


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## James1975NY (Mar 29, 2010)

dougp26364 said:


> Wasn't the point that Marriott still owns 20% of the inventory and used their ownership to book one of the most sought after weeks, blocking those that paid to be owners from their full enjoyment of their ownership? #2 on your list is unsold developer inventory.



Marriott owning 20% of the inventory does not have anything to do with owners ability to get reservations. Unsold weeks were never a part of the "float pool" of available inventory. When weeks are sold, Marriott adds one more owner and one more owner week to the pool of inventory. It is relative. How are they blocking owners in this scenario?

WAAAAYYYYY too many assumptions to be fair.


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## LisaH (Mar 29, 2010)

cruisin said:


> Marriott was renting the same weeks for next year  to people purchasing timeshares for $1800, owners pretty upset about it. The owners  definitely understand how to get what they wanted, but couldn't, and really bothered that Marriott had reserved them for sales promotions.



Do you know this as a fact or just speculation?
Which resort are you talking about? Not sure "Desert Canyon Villas" meant the one in Phoenix or Palm Desert...
I own a week at Canyon Villas in Phoenix. I was one of these who got up at 5:45 am last Thursday and got zilch, not even a single week with Friday and Sun check-in showed up. This was quite unusual as normally I always managed to get at least a Friday or Sun check-in when I called the second the inventory opened.


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## James1975NY (Mar 29, 2010)

cruisin said:


> Last week a pretty upset group of owners, could not book the next year, huge group tried at 6am, all complaing about what they were promised,



What were they promised?



cruisin said:


> Marriott was renting the same weeks for next year  to people purchasing timeshares for $1800, owners pretty upset about it. The owners  definitely understand how to get what they wanted, but couldn't, and really bothered that Marriott had reserved them for sales promotions.



Marriott can assign inventory to anyone they want if they own it. Marriott is selling timeshares for $1800?



cruisin said:


> Marriott still has 20% of inventory, so who knows how they book that. I also explained that whenever a platinum owner turns in their week for points, I am guessing marriott books that week for what benefits them. It was interesting to watch, the lady running the meeting got caught in a buzzsaw



They own it and it is not part of the owner "float" pool. What is the nature of the week they are trying to reserve in 2011? Is there anything special about it? Maybe that will explain why the inventory was not available.


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## timtax (Mar 29, 2010)

*Canyon Viilas reservation*

Which week(s) are we talking about?


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## LisaH (Mar 30, 2010)

timtax said:


> Which week(s) are we talking about?



Not sure you asked me or the OP. I wanted to reserve the week of March 26, 2010 with Friday, Sat or Sun check-in.


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## rang1 (Mar 30, 2010)

*Beach Place Reservation*

I went online to reserve a March 26, 2011 at BeachPlace Towers about 6 minutes in and it only showed Friday and Sunday check-in not Saturday. I called up and was able to reserve the Saturday check in.


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## dougp26364 (Mar 30, 2010)

James1975NY said:


> Marriott owning 20% of the inventory does not have anything to do with owners ability to get reservations. Unsold weeks were never a part of the "float pool" of available inventory. When weeks are sold, Marriott adds one more owner and one more owner week to the pool of inventory. It is relative. How are they blocking owners in this scenario?
> 
> WAAAAYYYYY too many assumptions to be fair.



I think it does. 

If Marriott is an owner, just like any other owner, they have the ability to reserve units just like any other owner. But, Marriott owns the reservation system. Marriott can put themselves at the front of the line ahead of all the other owners. This gives them an unfair advantage when making reservations. They own the reservation system so, they go first and all the other owners come next. 

If Marroitt uses the advantage of owning the reservation system to take the best weeks for themselves (being first in line), then rents them for $1,800 with the idea of getting people into the sales room, how is this fair to all the other owners?


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## rthib (Mar 31, 2010)

*Maybe it is not Just Marriott Reservations*

Maybe, those weeks are already reserved by those of us with Multiple-weeks.

I have had my March Reservations and Palm Desert and Scottsdale since Early February.


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## LisaH (Mar 31, 2010)

Only 50% of the inventory is open to multiple-week owners at 13 months window. There should still be 50% left and I managed to grab at least a Friday or Sun check-in for previous years if I got up and tried to make a reservation before 6am. This is the first year that I could not get any.


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## timtax (Mar 31, 2010)

*High demand week*

I actually had a January 2011 reservation and was able to call MVCI and change it to 3/26/11. So there was at least 1 reservation available that day. Maybe it was just many people trying to get the highest demand week.


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## cruisin (Mar 31, 2010)

LisaH said:


> Do you know this as a fact or just speculation?
> Which resort are you talking about? Not sure "Desert Canyon Villas" meant the one in Phoenix or Palm Desert...
> I own a week at Canyon Villas in Phoenix. I was one of these who got up at 5:45 am last Thursday and got zilch, not even a single week with Friday and Sun check-in showed up. This was quite unusual as normally I always managed to get at least a Friday or Sun check-in when I called the second the inventory opened.



Phoenix! This was fact, it was a relative of one of the owners staying in the same room who bought. I did not check with the sales staff to confirm, but  it was not challenged by the lady running the meeting, and the people did not seem like the lying type.  Interesting you had the same problem, these were definitely pros at booking, many people there had both phones dialing right at 6 and were not getting their week. 

I just posted this as something that was interesting, they also could not log onto the system to book via computer. There were 2 computers brought to the update, and they both tried logging on at the start of the meeting and every 10 minutes or so would update the person in charge that the computers were still waiting, after an hour and a half, the computers still never logged on.

This was a group of  very intelligent owners who book these weeks every year, and they did a nice job of explaining their concerns without getting carried away. They were definitely mystified that a lot of them did not get the week this year, they understand it happens, but were surprised that  so many people that are good at the game failed.


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## cruisin (Mar 31, 2010)

timtax said:


> I actually had a January 2011 reservation and was able to call MVCI and change it to 3/26/11. So there was at least 1 reservation available that day. Maybe it was just many people trying to get the highest demand week.



It was for the previous week.


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## brigechols (Mar 31, 2010)

dougp26364 said:


> I think it does.
> 
> If Marriott is an owner, just like any other owner, they have the ability to reserve units just like any other owner. But, Marriott owns the reservation system. Marriott can put themselves at the front of the line ahead of all the other owners. This gives them an unfair advantage when making reservations. They own the reservation system so, they go first and all the other owners come next.
> 
> If Marroitt uses the advantage of owning the reservation system to take the best weeks for themselves (being first in line), then rents them for $1,800 with the idea of getting people into the sales room, how is this fair to all the other owners?


As a multiple week owner, Marriot could book units at the 13 month mark. If they wanted to reserve prime weeks, seems they would do it at that time rather than waiting for the 12 month mark


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## pwrshift (Mar 31, 2010)

When I called to make my room location request, as an owner, I was told the area I wanted was usually reserved by 'multiple week' owners of MCV and that there were several who had between 8 to 16 weeks they booked in a row.  That would have an effect on the booking of the 50% at the 13 month point, I would think.

Brian


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## Steve (Mar 31, 2010)

pwrshift said:


> When I called to make my room location request, as an owner, I was told the area I wanted was usually reserved by 'multiple week' owners of MCV and that there were several who had between 8 to 16 weeks they booked in a row.  That would have an effect on the booking of the 50% at the 13 month point, I would think.
> 
> Brian



Hi Brian,

What part of the resort is that?  I'm wondering what area/buildings are very popular with multiple week owners and thus hard to get upon request.

Thanks,

Steve


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## LisaH (Apr 1, 2010)

I just tried again this morning and I was able to to get week of April 2-9 for 2011. I guess once Spring training is over, it's a little easier to get.
BTW, the week didn't show up on line again. I had to call them to get it. Luckily this time, the phone call went right through. Phew...


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## James1975NY (Apr 1, 2010)

dougp26364 said:


> I think it does.
> 
> If Marriott is an owner, just like any other owner, they have the ability to reserve units just like any other owner. But, Marriott owns the reservation system. Marriott can put themselves at the front of the line ahead of all the other owners. This gives them an unfair advantage when making reservations. They own the reservation system so, they go first and all the other owners come next.
> 
> If Marroitt uses the advantage of owning the reservation system to take the best weeks for themselves (being first in line), then rents them for $1,800 with the idea of getting people into the sales room, how is this fair to all the other owners?



The weeks that Marriott owns (developer weeks) are NOT available to the owner base. It makes no difference if they have the ability to get the weeks reserved before anyone else can call in or if they decide how to make use of the weeks at 9 months prior. The bottom line is that they were never available to the owner base.

We all know that the ownership at this resort (if not all) is sold with a deeded week and unit associated to the purchase. Although the product is float, the inventory for floating units will vary week to week depending on the weeks that were assigned to a Buyer when they purchased. In other words, if there are 100 owners deeded to a week 10, there will be 100 units in the float pool for week 10. Now lets say there are 50 owners that were assigned to a week 11....there would be 50 less units in the float pool for week 11 because of the deeded week assigned to them at purchase. Now, if the week 11 for next year happened to be the popular week, and you have 150 owners competing for 50 units for week 11 that were sold and contributed to the float pool, it will be difficult.....coupled with multiple week owners that can reserve 13 months out.

Now, please only take these numbers for demonstration purposes. The mix is likely to be quite a bit different. I am only trying to illustrate how a floating system is supported by a deeded week purchase.

So, back to my original point. If Marriott still owns X amount of units for week Y, it does not matter when or how or who they assign to their space. It was never available to owners in the first place. It does not have anything to do with mal-practice.


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## James1975NY (Apr 1, 2010)

brigechols said:


> As a multiple week owner, Marriot could book units at the 13 month mark. If they wanted to reserve prime weeks, seems they would do it at that time rather than waiting for the 12 month mark



Marriott does not have to make reservations. If they are not sold to owners, the specific week and units that they own can actually sit like fixed weeks because they are not a part of the "float" pool which is built off of purchases.


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## SueDonJ (Apr 1, 2010)

James1975NY said:


> The weeks that Marriott owns (developer weeks) are NOT available to the owner base. It makes no difference if they have the ability to get the weeks reserved before anyone else can call in or if they decide how to make use of the weeks at 9 months prior. The bottom line is that they were never available to the owner base.
> 
> We all know that the ownership at this resort (if not all) is sold with a deeded week and unit associated to the purchase. Although the product is float, the inventory for floating units will vary week to week depending on the weeks that were assigned to a Buyer when they purchased. In other words, if there are 100 owners deeded to a week 10, there will be 100 units in the float pool for week 10. Now lets say there are 50 owners that were assigned to a week 11....there would be 50 less units in the float pool for week 11 because of the deeded week assigned to them at purchase. Now, if the week 11 for next year happened to be the popular week, and you have 150 owners competing for 50 units for week 11 that were sold and contributed to the float pool, it will be difficult.....coupled with multiple week owners that can reserve 13 months out.
> 
> ...





James1975NY said:


> Marriott does not have to make reservations. If they are not sold to owners, the specific week and units that they own can actually sit like fixed weeks because they are not a part of the "float" pool which is built off of purchases.



I'm not sure this is correct at all.  Unless a buyer asks specifically before the paperwork is drawn up, Marriott's salespeople don't offer a choice of week#/unit# to be placed on the deeds.  That's because deed numbers are there for inventory purposes only insofar as Marriott is prohibited from selling more than the number of Plat/2BR/oceanside (for example) that exist.  The governing docs stipulate that reservation availability is limited to only the purchased season/villa config (not to the unit and/or week numbers) specified on the deeds of sold units.

In your examples, if Marriott sells according to a chart and numbers deeds in that order, then the first five buyers will be sold Unit X/Week 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 (or Unit X, Y, Z, A, B/Week 1.)  With what you're saying, until further weeks are sold, the availability for those five buyers would be limited to only Unit X (or Week 1.)  That's not what happens at all - even if only one interval is sold, the owner is able to reserve his/her choice of all weeks in the season, and the front desk is able to place that buyer into any of the completed units that match the purchased view/#BR configuration.

{edited to add}  And, Marriott does have to make reservations.  Again, the docs specify exactly when they can reserve developer inventory as well as inventory available from MRP-exchanged weeks, owner-deliquency weeks, etc.., and their reservation windows may not match owner's, but they do need to follow a stipulated procedure to reserve intervals.

**********

As far as this thread's topic, is it possible that the problems they've been having with the website have contributed to folks being unable to make reservations the minute the window opens?  There has been a notice posted on the website for a little more than a month now, and several TUGgers have mentioned during that time that their weeks have become available at later dates through phone calls.

Of course if it's known that Marriott definitely blocked off whole weeks for non-owner use, the owners should demand to be told why and how, and they should take their protest much further if Marriott's actually done something which is in violation of the governing docs.  (The limited info in this thread, though, doesn't appear to be enough to cry "Foul!" yet.)


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## James1975NY (Apr 1, 2010)

SueDonJ said:


> In your examples, if Marriott sells according to a chart and numbers deeds in that order, then the first five buyers will be sold Unit X/Week 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 (or Unit X, Y, Z, A, B/Week 1.)  With what you're saying, until further weeks are sold, the availability for those five buyers would be limited to only Unit X (or Week 1.)  That's not what happens at all - even if only one interval is sold, the owner is able to reserve his/her choice of all weeks in the season, and the front desk is able to place that buyer into any of the completed units that match the purchased view/#BR configuration.



SueDonJ, unfortunately it is more complicated than that and I do not want to imply that there is a pattern to the how the weeks are distributed. From the start, the unit numbers typically depend on which buildings/units will be available for occupancy in the first use year. The week numbers are simply going to coincide with the season that the Buyer wants.

When sales have just started, and the owner base is still in the in the infant stage, a developer will "donate" unsold weeks into the "float" pool to ensure the program is run whole or in other words, the program that is being sold is working. Developers know that because of how inventory is ceded, "donating" inventory is a must early on. As the owner base expands and you get to a point where all 52 weeks have multiple owners assigned (which means multiple units available for each week in a floating plan) the developer does not have an obligation to "donate" units that are unsold to support the float plan. There is never a legal obligation to do so but the developer knows darn well that if the program does not work early on, it will fail...so they do.

Does this make sense?


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## SueDonJ (Apr 1, 2010)

James1975NY said:


> SueDonJ, unfortunately it is more complicated than that and I do not want to imply that there is a pattern to the how the weeks are distributed. From the start, the unit numbers typically depend on which buildings/units will be available for occupancy in the first use year. The week numbers are simply going to coincide with the season that the Buyer wants.
> 
> When sales have just started, and the owner base is still in the in the infant stage, a developer will "donate" unsold weeks into the "float" pool to ensure the program is run whole or in other words, the program that is being sold is working. Developers know that because of how inventory is ceded, "donating" inventory is a must early on. As the owner base expands and you get to a point where all 52 weeks have multiple owners assigned (which means multiple units available for each week in a floating plan) the developer does not have an obligation to "donate" units that are unsold to support the float plan. There is never a legal obligation to do so but the developer knows darn well that if the program does not work early on, it will fail...so they do.
> 
> Does this make sense?



It makes sense so far as it explains how what you're saying could work, yes.  But I still don't think that what you're saying is how Marriott does work - the terms of the governing docs simply don't support it.  Marriott is not entitled, does not have the right, to hold unsold inventory as fixed weeks unavailable to owners who would otherwise be entitled to reserve those intervals.  Marriott does have the right to reserve for itself those intervals, however, according to specific reservation procedures stipulated in the governing docs.


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## James1975NY (Apr 1, 2010)

SueDonJ said:
			
		

> *Marriott is not entitled, does not have the right, to hold unsold inventory as fixed weeks unavailable to owners who would otherwise be entitled to reserve those intervals*.  Marriott does have the right to reserve for itself those intervals, however, according to specific reservation procedures stipulated in the governing docs.



Im a little confused about the statement in the *bold* text. Im not sure what you mean about owners being entitled to inventory that is not sold.

Let me step back for a minute and explain that I am not holding the manual or SOP for Marriott inventory control or processes. With that, I do concede that I do not have first hand knowledge of their business. I have first hand knowledge of inventory models for timeshare in general and there are more consistencies than you would imagine.

My initial comment and explanation of "float" inventory and usage distribution was an attempt to explain how an owner could be denied space for a certain date while a relative of theirs (not owners) may have been able to confirm space through another medium (trial package, marketing package etc.). If Marriott still has unsold inventory, they can and will use that inventory to support these types of packages hoping to convert them into owners which in turn would add one more owner and one more week into the "float" pool.


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## SueDonJ (Apr 1, 2010)

James1975NY said:


> The weeks that Marriott owns (developer weeks) are NOT available to the owner base. It makes no difference if they have the ability to get the weeks reserved before anyone else can call in or if they decide how to make use of the weeks at 9 months prior. The bottom line is that they were never available to the owner base.
> 
> We all know that the ownership at this resort (if not all) is sold with a deeded week and unit associated to the purchase. Although the product is float, the inventory for floating units will vary week to week depending on the weeks that were assigned to a Buyer when they purchased. In other words, if there are 100 owners deeded to a week 10, there will be 100 units in the float pool for week 10. Now lets say there are 50 owners that were assigned to a week 11....there would be 50 less units in the float pool for week 11 because of the deeded week assigned to them at purchase. Now, if the week 11 for next year happened to be the popular week, and you have 150 owners competing for 50 units for week 11 that were sold and contributed to the float pool, it will be difficult.....coupled with multiple week owners that can reserve 13 months out.
> 
> ...





SueDonJ said:


> ... *Marriott is not entitled, does not have the right, to hold unsold inventory as fixed weeks unavailable to owners who would otherwise be entitled to reserve those intervals.*  Marriott does have the right to reserve for itself those intervals, however, according to specific reservation procedures stipulated in the governing docs.





James1975NY said:


> Im a little confused about the statement in the *bold* text. Im not sure what you mean about owners being entitled to inventory that is not sold.
> 
> Let me step back for a minute and explain that I am not holding the manual or SOP for Marriott inventory control or processes. With that, I do concede that I do not have first hand knowledge of their business. I have first hand knowledge of inventory models for timeshare in general and there are more consistencies than you would imagine.
> 
> My initial comment and explanation of "float" inventory and usage distribution was an attempt to explain how an owner could be denied space for a certain date while a relative of theirs (not owners) may have been able to confirm space through another medium (trial package, marketing package etc.). If Marriott still has unsold inventory, they can and will use that inventory to support these types of packages hoping to convert them into owners which in turn would add one more owner and one more week into the "float" pool.



Where you're confusing me is in how you're explaining unsold inventory.  Simply, the governing docs do not allow for it to be held by Marriott as fixed weeks according to week/unit numbers; they do allow for it to be held (and for Marriott to reserve it as stipulated) exactly how its usage is defined - as float weeks according to season/view/#BR.

Of course an owner can't reserve what hasn't been purchased, but that's not what I'm saying.  Say a certain resort has 35 Plat/2BR/oceanside units in the available pool.  Five of those intervals are purchased, leaving 30 in Marriott's developer inventory.  Those five owners are entitled to reserve those five intervals in any week of the season regardless of the week/unit numbers on their own deeds or still held by Marriott as developer inventory, so long as their reservations follow the stipulated Reservation Procedures for owners.  Marriott is entitled to reserve the remaining 30 intervals for its own use, including Sales Previews, but only according to the stipulated Reservation Procedures {{ for "unreserved use periods."  (For example, SurfWatch's docs provide that Marriott can reserve those intervals "... 74 days prior to the first day of the Use Period. ...") }}  *Nevermind the bracketed stuff, it's wrong wrong wrong.   

What it appears cruisin is saying in the first post here is that Marriott reserved prior to the owners' reservation window an entire use period; and it appears that what you're saying about the way that Marriott holds unsold inventory might allow for that to happen - if no deeds have been issued with that particular week numbered on them.  What I'm saying is that IF what cruisin has posted is true, those owners have a legitimate reason to challenge Marriott's actions, because what you're saying cannot happen.

Probably this further confused both of us ...


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## James1975NY (Apr 1, 2010)

SueDonJ said:


> Where you're confusing me is in how you're explaining unsold inventory.  Simply, the governing docs do not allow for it to be held by Marriott as fixed weeks according to week/unit numbers; they do allow for it to be held (and for Marriott to reserve it as stipulated) exactly how its usage is defined - as float weeks according to season/view/#BR.
> 
> Of course an owner can't reserve what hasn't been purchased, but that's not what I'm saying.  Say a certain resort has 35 Plat/2BR/oceanside units in the available pool.  Five of those intervals are purchased, leaving 30 in Marriott's developer inventory.  Those five owners are entitled to reserve those five intervals in any week of the season regardless of the week/unit numbers on their own deeds or still held by Marriott as developer inventory, so long as their reservations follow the stipulated Reservation Procedures for owners.  Marriott is entitled to reserve the remaining 30 weeks for its own use, including Sales Previews, but only according to the stipulated Reservation Procedures for "unreserved use periods."  (For example, SurfWatch's docs provide that Marriott can reserve those intervals "... 74 days prior to the first day of the Use Period. ...")
> 
> ...



I think I am 99.9% there and I know you understand what I am saying just by reading your response(s).

I think the easiest way to fully agree/disagree is to simply share/argue the fact that owners are not entitled to space that is not sold. I get the impression that owners have the right to any week within their season regardless if Marriott is paying the bill on the maintenance fees or not.


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## SueDonJ (Apr 1, 2010)

James1975NY said:


> I think I am 99.9% there and I know you understand what I am saying just by reading your response(s).
> 
> I think the easiest way to fully agree/disagree is to simply share/argue the fact that owners are not entitled to space that is not sold. I get the impression that owners have the right to any week within their season regardless if Marriott is paying the bill on the maintenance fees or not.



Of course I agree that owners don't have access to unavailable or unsold inventory.  Thus if there are, for example, 10 owners of 35 available intervals - five 2BR/oceanside units spread over a 7-week Platinum season - reservations can only be taken for five owners maximum per week/ten owners per season.  But no interval can be removed from available inventory because a deed with the corresponding season/#BR/view hasn't been issued, which is what you appeared to be saying when you said, "So, back to my original point. If Marriott still owns X amount of units for week Y, it does not matter when or how or who they assign to their space. It was never available to owners in the first place..."  My thought is that Owner inventory is limited only to the total amount of (season/#BR/view) intervals sold, subject to availability according to the reservation procedures, and not limited in any way for reservations to the specific unit/week numbers on any deed or still in developer inventory. 

Looking further at SurfWatch's docs I'm sure I used that "unreserved use period" thing incorrectly - it looks like that allows Marriott to reserve sold intervals if they're not reserved prior to that 74-day mark.  It appears that it's more likely that what others have said here is correct - developer inventory can be reserved the same as Owner inventory, at the 12-month mark.  Interestingly, Marriott is not allowed to utilize the 13-month reservation rule (at least at SurfWatch):

"Owners are entitled to request a reservation beginning twelve (12) months in advance ..." and "Owners, *excluding Declarant*, who own more than one ... thirteen (13) months in advance ..."  Hmmm.

As well, the governing docs do have some stipulations about Marriott's entitlements of space and units for Sales Preview use, but I don't see anything about them being allowed to circumvent the Reservation Procedures requirements.  Again, IF what cruisin posted is true and they managed to block off an entire declared use period prior to it being available to Owners, then I'd say there is something not correct about their actions and the owners should challenge it.  After, of course, they determine that it happened exactly as posted.


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## JimC (Apr 1, 2010)

This morning I logged in to make a reservation for 12 months out (inventory that would become available today) and at 9:00:02 ET (based on the MVCI web-site clock) there was no available inventory.  Now how did all of the new inventory disappear in 2 seconds?


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## pianodinosaur (Apr 1, 2010)

JimC said:


> This morning I logged in to make a reservation for 12 months out (inventory that would become available today) and at 9:00:02 ET (based on the MVCI web-site clock) there was no available inventory.  Now how did all of the new inventory disappear in 2 seconds?



Something is rotten in Denmark.  Shakespeare


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## brigechols (Apr 1, 2010)

JimC said:


> This morning I logged in to make a reservation for 12 months out (inventory that would become available today) and at 9:00:02 ET (based on the MVCI web-site clock) there was no available inventory.  Now how did all of the new inventory disappear in 2 seconds?



Hmm. Did you call owner services? Curious about how they explain no availabilty after two seconds.


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## TheTimeTraveler (Apr 1, 2010)

JimC said:


> This morning I logged in to make a reservation for 12 months out (inventory that would become available today) and at 9:00:02 ET (based on the MVCI web-site clock) there was no available inventory.  Now how did all of the new inventory disappear in 2 seconds?





VERY GOOD QUESTION.   I would be tempted to call Marriott Customer Service and demand some type of explanation.   50% is supposed to be available at 12 months out for anyone to obtain......



.


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## radmoo (Apr 1, 2010)

I called to reserve Mar 10 check in on Thurs Mar 10.  As CV only has Fri-Sun arrivals, I had to call back on mar 11.  I dialed at 8:59AM from JFk(we were enroute to Ocean Pointe), got right through and had my choice of Fri,Sat or Sun arrival.   I know it's a couple of weeks earlier than OP dates, but it is still during spring training.


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## cruisin (Apr 2, 2010)

It was a lot of owners smelling smoke and wondering where the fire was. They could not prove anything nefarious, they just did not like the coincidence that all these professional timeshare bookers failed at the same time. It also is the #1 requested week at the resort, so who knows how many tried to book, but from a previous post, you would not think inventory could be gone in 2 seconds at any resort.


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## LisaH (Apr 2, 2010)

JimC said:


> This morning I logged in to make a reservation for 12 months out (inventory that would become available today) and at 9:00:02 ET (based on the MVCI web-site clock) there was no available inventory.  Now how did all of the new inventory disappear in 2 seconds?



See my prior post #19. I didn't see it appear on website but it's available if you call at 9am EST. There could be a glitch on the website...


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## SueDonJ (Apr 2, 2010)

cruisin said:


> It was a lot of owners smelling smoke and wondering where the fire was. They could not prove anything nefarious, they just did not like the coincidence that all these professional timeshare bookers failed at the same time. It also is the #1 requested week at the resort, so who knows how many tried to book, but from a previous post, you would not think inventory could be gone in 2 seconds at any resort.



I agree with them that it's worth questioning to find out exactly why the telephone and computer system was not allowing reservations to be made immediately when the window opened.  But I wouldn't walk away from that owner breakfast at the resort and be satisfied with the non-answers given by the Marriott rep, especially if I thought that something "nefarious" was a possibility.  I'd write to the GM of the resort and the MVCI offices to try to get answers to some very legitimate questions.

Is it related to the warning that Marriott has put up on the website about problems with the reservation system?  Is it because Marriott incorrectly manipulated the system so that reservation requests for developer inventory were taken before owners could get in?  Is it because prior to the reservation window opening, Marriott incorrectly blocked off an entire use period for Sales Preview use?  Or something else?

I just don't get the complacency, is all.  How can any of these owners be satisfied with thinking that Marriott might be doing something wrong?  I sure wouldn't be.


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## cruisin (Apr 2, 2010)

They got the , "we do not know how sales does their Job, or how they get their inventory?" "50 percent is available at 13 months" "50% is available at 12 months" "we will look into the website problem, you should be able to book on line, we did not know the site was down" "not sure if the website can handle the traffic"

 Of course the owner update was on Wednesday and the lady trying to unsuccessfully log on during the meeting (11-noon EST) asked how much traffic could their be at this time. "

The response, "well, your right, we will look into this" They did pass a sheet of paper and got about 10 owners emails and said they would get back to them, I should have put my email down, but am not an owner here, I eaxchanged in last minute.


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## SueDonJ (Apr 2, 2010)

Considering that folks have been posting to TUG for weeks now about problems with phone and online reservations when the windows open, and the warning about system maintenance has been up on the website for almost as long, I think the possibility exists that all of this really is due to a glitch in the system.  Especially because some, like Lisa here, have come back to post that the weeks became available to reserve at a later time/date.

So if those ten folks get a satisfactory follow-up proving that it's the system causing the problem, and not something incorrect being done by Marriott, then maybe the questions stop there.  But I'm just saying, the answer would have to be pretty darn convincing for me to not take it any further.


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## EducatedConsumer (Apr 2, 2010)

At one of our Marriott resorts the condo docs say that Marriott can revert to the (deeded) fixed weeks.......something to the effect of "upon dissolution of the timeshare plan." I've paraphased this, but I'm certain that the provisions are as I stated, in concept. Accordingly, when we've purchased our weeks, we've paid attention to which deeded week we were assigned (if in a remote case, the (floating) timeshare plan was dissolved).

I remember being told by a representative of Marriott when we were handed our condo docs and timeshare plan that Marriott has to file these plans with the Florida Department of Real Estate. In so far, I wonder if given that these docs and plans are required to be filed by the Florida Department of Real Estate, that the manner by which Marriott operates the timeshare plan is "regulated" by the Florida Department of Real Estate? If it is regulated, there may be some recourse with the Florida Department of Real Estate, if there is a question about Marriott's compliance with the timeshare plan (e.g. supplying the reservations system with the inventory that it is supposed to be supplied with).


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## thinze3 (Apr 2, 2010)

JimC said:


> This morning I logged in to make a reservation for 12 months out (inventory that would become available today) and at 9:00:02 ET (based on the MVCI web-site clock) there was no available inventory.  Now how did all of the new inventory disappear in 2 seconds?



Chris (cp73) had this problem last year or year before at DSV. The inventory showed up online hours later.


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## JimC (Apr 3, 2010)

I asked and was told that inventory can go pretty quickly for high demand weeks.  Still not convinced.  I have been checking in periodically to look for inventory, but nothing yet.  May need to visit in the fall instead.


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## dr.debs (Apr 11, 2010)

cruisin said:


> Phoenix! This was fact, it was a relative of one of the owners staying in the same room who bought. I did not check with the sales staff to confirm, but  it was not challenged by the lady running the meeting, and the people did not seem like the lying type.  Interesting you had the same problem, these were definitely pros at booking, many people there had both phones dialing right at 6 and were not getting their week.
> 
> I just posted this as something that was interesting, they also could not log onto the system to book via computer. There were 2 computers brought to the update, and they both tried logging on at the start of the meeting and every 10 minutes or so would update the person in charge that the computers were still waiting, after an hour and a half, the computers still never logged on.
> 
> This was a group of  very intelligent owners who book these weeks every year, and they did a nice job of explaining their concerns without getting carried away. They were definitely mystified that a lot of them did not get the week this year, they understand it happens, but were surprised that  so many people that are good at the game failed.



I Have called the last three weeks, once about 3 minutes after 6am, and finally yesterday was able to book my lockoff studio for the week of April 10th. Had to pay the $75 lockoff fee. We wanted March 21st and to use our 2 br. Very frustrating...


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## brigechols (Apr 11, 2010)

Interesting that II has availability for January-February 2011 and April-May 2011 while an owner has difficulty getting a reservation.  I posted availability on the sightings board.


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## pwrshift (Apr 11, 2010)

I am at MCV right now and other than not having a jacuzzi tub the place is beautiful and the weather great.  This is one of my TS that I use EOY and trade for MR points in between...and one I bought at about today's resale price but with 500,000+ MR points so it's really been a good deal IMO.

However, I did have a problem one year booking it and took this time of year instead and it wasn't a problem 12 months out...and I think the weather is better than the time many of you seem to really want.

I think the GM here runs a good show and compliment her as this place leaves my other Marriott's in the dust on furnishings.  Well done.

Also ... This isn't a school break is it?  There are swarms of kids here that are school age.

Brian


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## dioxide45 (Apr 11, 2010)

brigechols said:


> Interesting that II has availability for January-February 2011 and April-May 2011 while an owner has difficulty getting a reservation.  I posted availability on the sightings board.



Don't know why it is interesting. Those that booked and got those weeks are quickly depositing in to II to get max trade power. That is the great thing about the current weeks based system. If you lose out at the 13 month mark (multiple week owners), you have another shot at the 12 month mark. If you can't get a reservation at 12 months, you still have hope with trading through II, albeit for a fee. Isn't it great?


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## AMJ (Apr 11, 2010)

pwrshift said:


> Also ... This isn't a school break is it?  There are swarms of kids here that are school age.
> Brian



Many schools are out this week for Easter break.


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## Ggatorgirl (Apr 16, 2010)

I  posted on this site about problems booking CV last year.

I believe the problem with Canyon Villas is two-fold...1.  Marriott seriously underestimated the demand for Spring Training weeks in Phoenix.  The previous GM told me the Marriott wishes it had made March  at Canyon Villas Platinum Plus weeks.  2.. Multi-week owners who book at 13 months and then turn around and list them for rent are in violation of the SOP which states that the 13 month advantage is to be used for owner occupancy only.  But Marriott refuses to do anything about it.  ( I know, I've had discussions with MVC HQ people about this).

When I was trying to book a March week this year and being shut out at the 9 am start time, I could look on Redweek and see offers for rentals for all the weeks in March.

I am so frustrated that I am waiting for the market to improve, then I will be selling my Canyon Villas week.


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## LisaH (Mar 16, 2012)

Sorry to dig out an old thread. I just want to report that this morning, after getting up at 5:40 am, I finally got the Marriott Canyon Villas week of March 16-23, 2012 first time in three years. Not sure if it's just my luck or the reservation situation has improved. Anyway, I am happy...


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## AMJ (Mar 17, 2012)

That's good news. Let's hope that the reservation situation has improved.


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## MabelP (Mar 17, 2012)

Brian,
This week is not a California School Break. Strangely, I was there President's Week and there were very few school age children.


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## Quilter (Mar 17, 2012)

With a majority of the platinum owners competing for 4 weeks in March it would seem the luck of the draw will circulate.   In this case the DC might be a benefit as owners turn in weeks for points and Marriott takes their inventory from across the entire platinum season.

When we were recently at the resort I talked to several owners who booked their stay through the DC.


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