# Why Hawaii is trying to ban a common sunscreen



## RNCollins (May 10, 2017)

By Kendra Pierre-Louis

"The waters surrounding Hawaii's eight main islands contain more than 410,000 acres of living coral reefs. If strung together, the reefs would be bigger than Oahu, Hawaii's third largest island. And because of Hawaii's geographic isolation, the reefs support unique life. The Hawaiian Monk Seal, the Bandit Angelfish—even some of the types of coral that comprise the reef itself—are found nowhere else on earth. It's a shame that our sunscreen might be killing them.

The coral concern is caused by oxybenzone, a chemical which absorbs the sun's UV radiation and gives some (but not all) sunscreens their protective benefit. But oxybenzone might also kill off coral reefs. That's why earlier this year, Hawaii state senator Will Espero introduced a bill that would ban the sale of sunscreens containing oxybenzone within the state of Hawaii. There's a reasonably good chance it will pass and become law.

See the full article:
https://www.aol.com/article/news/2017/05/04/why-hawaii-is-trying-to-ban-a-common-sunscreen/22069368/


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## AbelowDS (May 10, 2017)

So.... let's let the reefs live while countless thousands develop skin cancer because the non-benzo stuff is not as effective. Makes perfect sense to me

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## WalnutBaron (May 10, 2017)

The reefs are a priceless and irreplaceable home for untold numbers of marine species and every reasonable effort needs to be made to preserve them for the sake of those sea animals and plants and for the future enjoyment of future guests to Hawaii who snorkel and dive in those pristine waters. While I can understand the feeling of some that a state-wide ban would affect even those who never set foot in the ocean, I don't know how you could enforce a partial ban only for ocean-goers. And as the article points out, even those who don't swim in the ocean may be contributing to the problem simply because their shower water carries the residual oxybenzone into the surrounding waterways and eventually to the surrounding seas. If the science is sound--and that is a crucial qualifier--then this kind of legislation is reasonable and necessary.


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## AbelowDS (May 10, 2017)

Sorry - have to disagree with you. "Even those who don't swim in the ocean may be contributing to the problem simply because their shower water carries the residual ..."  I could give a flying ^%&^%.   Putting the environment before human health is absolutely absurd. Just cuz they don't swim they should open themselves to skin cancer? Ridiculous!  People are more valuable than the reefs.

Oh, and the science is sound? I AM a scientist. You can find a study for every side of every equation. Let's remember that many environmentalists put the environment before the humans for whom they are trying to save it.

End of my comments here. It's really a political discussion and not an environmental one, and I won't get into that here.


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## PigsDad (May 10, 2017)

There are other ways of protecting oneself from harmful UV rays (choice of clothing, hats, spending less time in outside during the danger hours, use of alternative sunscreens, etc.).  This doesn't have to be an "us vs. the environment" issue, as there are viable alternatives that still allow humans to be protected while protecting the environment.

Kurt


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## AbelowDS (May 10, 2017)

To WalnutBrown:  I apologize. I have a habit of being overly blunt and direct (something that has come up in my performance reviews over an over again for the past 25 years ) Comes across as upset, and I am not.

Changed my mind on not commenting further . I can't resist [EDITED AGAIN lol]


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## DeniseM (May 10, 2017)

Even if you don't want the discussion to go on and on, others may want to discuss it.  Everyone is welcome to express their opinion, as long as they comply with the posting rules.  It is certainly possible to discuss this as a vacation issue, and not get involved in politics.


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## rickandcindy23 (May 10, 2017)

Rash guards and even full snorkeling suits are a great option over sunscreen.  I break out in a rash, when my skin is in the sun, and so I am extra careful, and covering one's body with these suits is a good idea.  I also stay in the shade all of the time.  Sunscreen tends to give me a false sense of security, and I have had many a rash because I thought I covered myself thoroughly enough with that stuff.  Ten minutes in the sun is all I can take, and after that, I am going to get a rash.  I have the whitest skin you have ever seen.  No lie.


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## AbelowDS (May 10, 2017)

PigsDad said:


> ...choice of clothing, hats, spending less time in outside during the danger hours, use of alternative sunscreens, etc....


And that's exactly why I go to Hawaii. To cover up and to spend less time outside during the daytime. Really?


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## davidvel (May 10, 2017)

There is not one bit of data in this article about the actual effects of sunscreen on any particular reefs. ie. which reefs are suffering, and what is the extent. This is telling to me.

I have seen and snorkled among lots of incredible, thriving reefs in Hawaii and elsewhere, all while wearing copious amounts of oxybenzone. I'm not saying it doesn't harm them, just that I would expect with the millions of people snorkling in these waters, nearly all of which are wearing this sunscreen, there would be no coral left if there was even a moderate affect on the coral.

I for one don't want to wear a long sleeve shirt, pants, and booties, or a coat of zinc over my whole body, each time I venture into an ocean populated by coral. If there is a significant effect, I hope some alternatives can be developed. But I just don't see this as serious as some are making it out to be. 

As is the norm these days on any topic or cause, objective data and perspective are often lacking, leaving people to ignorantly just pick a side and fight to the death.


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## DeniseM (May 10, 2017)

Back in the day, we were sunbathers (not good, I know.)  But these days, we avoid the sun, and prefer to stay in the shade as much as possible, because it's better for your skin.  I actually like the light weight sun protective clothing - it's convenient, and allows us to use less sunscreen.  I get cold while snorkeling, and it keeps me warm, as well.


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## VegasBella (May 10, 2017)

The people whose skin is most at risk of skin cancer really should not be relying on sunscreen as their main form of protection. They need to do all the other methods: 
rashguards 
hats 
shade 
plan their day around the sun


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## davidvel (May 10, 2017)

VegasBella said:


> The people whose skin is most at risk of skin cancer really should not be relying on sunscreen as their main form of protection. They need to do all the other methods:
> rashguards
> hats
> shade
> plan their day around the sun


Everyone is at risk for skin cancer as a result of burning their skin, even dark skinned people.


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## PigsDad (May 10, 2017)

AbelowDS said:


> And that's exactly why I go to Hawaii. To cover up and to spend less time outside during the daytime. Really?


So you think wearing sunscreen is going to perfectly protect you from skin cancer?  I could point you to studies that show sunscreen can _cause_ skin cancer.  Like you said, you can find studies that back practically any viewpoint. 

I'm just saying there are alternatives to slathering on a bunch of chemicals on your skin to give you protection.  Personally, I don't find wearing my Tilley hat much of a burden, and it protects my head and neck from the sun.

Kurt


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## b2bailey (May 10, 2017)

PigsDad said:


> So you think wearing sunscreen is going to perfectly protect you from skin cancer?  I could point you to studies that show sunscreen can _cause_ skin cancer.  Like you said, you can find studies that back practically any viewpoint.
> 
> I'm just saying there are alternatives to slathering on a bunch of chemicals on your skin to give you protection.  Personally, I don't find wearing my Tilley hat much of a burden, and it protects my head and neck from the sun.
> 
> Kurt


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## b2bailey (May 10, 2017)

I'm not convinced of the safety of rubbing those chemicals all over my body. Best I can do is put a bit on my nose and forehead and refrain from full body sun tanning position. I grew up a sun worshipper in California and I am noticing those who stayed out of the sun have younger looking skin.


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## b2bailey (May 10, 2017)

I am also known to be blunt, so I will tell you what crossed my mind when I read your earlier post...
Wow, there really are people who don't understand that killing our environment will kill us.





AbelowDS said:


> To WalnutBrown:  I apologize. I have a habit of being overly blunt and direct (something that has come up in my performance reviews over an over again for the past 25 years ) Comes across as upset, and I am not.
> 
> Changed my mind on not commenting further . I can't resist [EDITED AGAIN lol]


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## VegasBella (May 10, 2017)

davidvel said:


> Everyone is at risk for skin cancer as a result of burning their skin, even dark skinned people.


Which is why I said "The people whose skin is most at risk of skin cancer" rather than 'The people who are at risk of skin cancer'

The people who are at less risk are most likely just fine with the possibly slightly less effective yet reef-friendly sunscreens.


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## WalnutBaron (May 10, 2017)

AbelowDS said:


> To WalnutBrown:  I apologize. I have a habit of being overly blunt and direct (something that has come up in my performance reviews over an over again for the past 25 years ) Comes across as upset, and I am not.
> 
> Changed my mind on not commenting further . I can't resist [EDITED AGAIN lol]



No harm, no foul  We may have different opinions, and there's nothing wrong with being blunt. Let's just say I didn't have to look hard to see where you were coming from!


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## stevio99 (May 10, 2017)

Wow, that would end up banning almost all the popular sunscreens.   Its such a shame the FDA formulations are they way they are - they are backwards and at least 20 years behind the other countries.  All Europe and Asia has essentially moved on to the Tinsorb compounds, because they don't have all the problems the US compounds do (reef damage, potentially harmful chemicals, compounds are not stable in sun, so they have to be re-applied more often).  I've imported some of these sunscreens, and they really are all they are cracked up to be, excellent protection, and best part was they have no chemical smell.


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## taffy19 (May 10, 2017)

davidvel said:


> Everyone is at risk for skin cancer as a result of burning their skin, even dark skinned people.


I never understand why people like baking in the sun.  I don't mind walking in the sun but always with a big hat on so not to burn.

We used to have a little dog that always wanted to go outside and be in the sun but after about 20 minutes she wanted to go back inside or was laying in the shade.

Animals have more sense than people.


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## Sandy VDH (May 10, 2017)

stevio99 said:


> Wow, that would end up banning almost all the popular sunscreens.   Its such a shame the FDA formulations are they way they are - they are backwards and at least 20 years behind the other countries.  All Europe and Asia has essentially moved on to the Tinsorb compounds, because they don't have all the problems the US compounds do (reef damage, potentially harmful chemicals, compounds are not stable in sun, so they have to be re-applied more often).  I've imported some of these sunscreens, and they really are all they are cracked up to be, excellent protection, and best part was they have no chemical smell.



I'm with you, I use a Danish product, P20 is the product name, it is sold all through Europe.  I buy it on amazon or when I am traveling to Europe.  You put it on ONCE a DAY, yes you read that correctly.  Good for 10+ hours and it is EXTREMELY Waterproof.  I go on the Tradewinds Cruising vacations frequently, I put it on once a day.  I scuba dive, snorkel, and I am on boat.  I don't get burnt.  I eventually get a tan.  But once a day is so much easier.  It is more like an oil that is easily absorbed by the skin.  It is not cheap, but it is cheaper than applying sunscreen 4 or 5 times a day when you are in the sun and/or swimming for a 10+ hour day.

https://www.amazon.com/Riemann-P20-Once-Hours-Protection/dp/B000RE3JM0

Don't wear it near white clothes or towels, it does transfer and stain.  I just wash my hand good after I apply it to keep the transfer by hand to a minimum.  I can't help it on clothes and towels if I am wearing them, but if they are color and not white they seem to do just fine.


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## AbelowDS (May 10, 2017)

b2bailey said:


> I am also known to be blunt, so I will tell you what crossed my mind when I read your earlier post...
> Wow, there really are people who don't understand that killing our environment will kill us.


And the other way around too.

Sent from my SM-T580 using Tapatalk


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## AbelowDS (May 10, 2017)

stevio99 said:


> Wow, that would end up banning almost all the popular sunscreens.   Its such a shame the FDA formulations are they way they are - they are backwards and at least 20 years behind the other countries.  All Europe and Asia has essentially moved on to the Tinsorb compounds, because they don't have all the problems the US compounds do (reef damage, potentially harmful chemicals, compounds are not stable in sun, so they have to be re-applied more often).  I've imported some of these sunscreens, and they really are all they are cracked up to be, excellent protection, and best part was they have no chemical smell.


Best answer yet  

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## PigsDad (May 10, 2017)

iconnections said:


> Animals have more sense than people.


Truer words could not be said! 

Kurt


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## DavidnRobin (May 11, 2017)

Being faired-skin and somewhat large who spends all vacations in the tropics (and a wife who loves to sunbathe), I find wearing the UA HeatGear water shirts SPF50) to be fantastic and a vacation saver - and also cost-savings as the cost of any sunscreen that doesn't have to cover my torso easily pays for these comfortable shirts (wet or dry).

Hey Wait! I am a Scientist to!!! LOL


and @AbelowDS - while I dislike the selling of Fear, and using non-clinical studies to make grandiose claims, I respectfully disagree with some of your arguments regarding the balance between environment protection and public health. But... that may just be me.

[_Picture attached to this post removed at DavidnRobin's request_ - mg]


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## geoand (May 12, 2017)

AbelowDS said:


> So.... let's let the reefs live while countless thousands develop skin cancer because the non-benzo stuff is not as effective. Makes perfect sense to me
> 
> Sent from my SM-T580 using Tapatalk


There are countless alternatives.  I wear a skull cap and a shorty wetsuit and never get burned.  The other benefit is that I am wearing a good flotation device.  I'm 220 lb. and the shorty wetsuit keeps me floating.


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## geist1223 (May 12, 2017)

Patti and I wear ankle to wrist "skins." When we first started wearing them there was basically one choice - single piece and black. This made it difficult for visiting the bathroom. Now Patti has several attractive colorful two piece sets. I also wear a skull cap made of material like a wetsuit. Patti loves it because one side is a bright lime green. I wear this side out and she can always find me.


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## DavidnRobin (May 12, 2017)

geist1223 said:


> Patti and I wear ankle to wrist "skins." When we first started wearing them there was basically one choice - single piece and black. This made it difficult for visiting the bathroom. Now Patti has several attractive colorful two piece sets. I also wear a skull cap made of material like a wetsuit. Patti loves it because one side is a bright lime green. I wear this side out and she can always find me.



I wear a skull cap as well - great for sun protection while snorkeling


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## fillde (May 12, 2017)

DavidnRobin said:


> Being faired-skin and somewhat large who spends all vacations in the tropics (and a wife who loves to sunbathe), I find wearing the UA HeatGear water shirts SPF50) to be fantastic and a vacation saver - and also cost-savings as the cost of any sunscreen that doesn't have to cover my torso easily pays for these comfortable shirts (wet or dry).
> 
> Hey Wait! I am a Scientist to!!! LOL
> View attachment 3862
> ...



Not sure why the picture is included in this discussion. Are you advocating an end to capitalism? And isn't that considered political?

[_Picture attached to DavidnRobin's original post removed at DavidnRobin's request_ - mg]


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## DavidnRobin (May 12, 2017)

fillde said:


> Not sure why the picture is included in this discussion. Are you advocating an end to capitalism? And isn't that considered political?



Political? "End of Capitalism " I implied this?
That's how you see it? Really? I don't get it...
Interesting...
perhaps try in context to my reply to AbelowDS (thus the '@') with a tinge of humor.

Otherwise... well...
E=mc^2

[_Picture attached to DavidnRobin's original post removed at DavidnRobin's request_ - mg]


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## fillde (May 12, 2017)

Hint. Hint. Sometimes a picture is worth a thousand......


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## Tamaradarann (May 12, 2017)

RNCollins said:


> By Kendra Pierre-Louis
> 
> "The waters surrounding Hawaii's eight main islands contain more than 410,000 acres of living coral reefs. If strung together, the reefs would be bigger than Oahu, Hawaii's third largest island. And because of Hawaii's geographic isolation, the reefs support unique life. The Hawaiian Monk Seal, the Bandit Angelfish—even some of the types of coral that comprise the reef itself—are found nowhere else on earth. It's a shame that our sunscreen might be killing them.
> 
> ...



We use Banana Boat Sport Sunscreen that has 3% Avobenzone in it.  Is this one of the chemicals that they are thinking about banning?  

As far as protective clothing, my husband had a melanoma cyst cut from his arm last year.  It was a very small stage zero melanoma, but the cut was very deep and wide.  He would use sunscreen but it does wear off, and it is difficult to cover the entire body all the time when you out at the beach.  The doctor advised him to cover up with clothing as the best protection.  He started doing that now, but to be reasonably protected you still need to put sunblock on your face, hands, and legs if you are wearing swim trucks with a long sleeve rash guard, and hat.


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## dioxide45 (May 13, 2017)

DavidnRobin said:


> Political? "End of Capitalism " I implied this?
> That's how you see it? Really? I don't get it...
> Interesting...
> perhaps try in context to my reply to AbelowDS (thus the '@') with a tinge of humor.
> ...


Perhaps they were referring to the sign someone was holding behind you?


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## DavidnRobin (May 13, 2017)

dioxide45 said:


> Perhaps they were referring to the sign someone was holding behind you?



OMG - I didn't check all the signs!
Mod please delete!
LOL

[_Picture attached to DavidnRobin's original post removed at DavidnRobin's request_ - mg]


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## DeniseM (May 13, 2017)

Done  (Dave you anarchist!   )

For future reference, you can click EDIT and then just remove the link to the picture.


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## x3 skier (May 13, 2017)

The file is still attached to the post #26 and can be read, if it matters.  

Cheers

[_Now removed_ - mg]


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## DeniseM (May 13, 2017)

Hmmm - can't see a way to delete the attached file - will bump it up the food chain.


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## VegasBella (May 13, 2017)

So I tried to find out more about this proposed ban and it sounds like it would really just impact the sunscreens sold in Hawaii, not the sunscreens brought in by tourists. But it's possible they would go through luggage and remove the banned sunscreens, though that seems like a lot of work. I just bought myself some special reef-safe sunscreen for our trip


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## BJRSanDiego (May 13, 2017)

davidvel said:


> ...
> 
> I for one don't want to wear a long sleeve shirt, pants, and booties, or a coat of zinc over my whole body, each time I venture into an ocean populated by coral.....



Interestingly, zinc has some toxicity to plants.  It is sold in roll form by Home Deport to prevent moss and mildew from growing on a person's roof.http://www.homedepot.com/p/Master-F...ss-and-Mildew-Preventer-Strip-NMM50/100004640


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## AbelowDS (May 14, 2017)

BJRSanDiego said:


> Interestingly, zinc has some toxicity to plants.  It is sold in roll form by Home Deport to prevent moss and mildew from growing on a person's roof.http://www.homedepot.com/p/Master-F...ss-and-Mildew-Preventer-Strip-NMM50/100004640


I like this. Personally, I would like to keep Moss and mildew off of my body. Just another readonly people are more important than the environment in this case.

(Am I starting another wave of debate with this comment?  Am I joking or not...?)

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## AbelowDS (May 14, 2017)

AbelowDS said:


> I like this. Personally, I would like to keep Moss and mildew off of my body. Just another readonly people are more important than the environment in this case.
> 
> (Am I starting another wave of debate with this comment?  Am I joking or not...?)
> 
> Sent from my SM-T580 using Tapatalk


Sorry...autocorrect... "...another reason..."

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## DavidnRobin (May 14, 2017)

DeniseM said:


> Done  (Dave you anarchist!   )
> 
> For future reference, you can click EDIT and then just remove the link to the picture.



I was kidding... I guess LOL did not properly relay sarcasm. I need to work on that....That claim that I was promoting 'Down with Capitalism' based off a small sign in the crowd is like a hammer looking for a nail.  Why not focus on the cute kid with the 'Children 4 Education' poster?  Or my adorable wife flashing her 'hippie' peace signs?  
Or is it political to be for education, science or peace? 

My point was that 'Scientists' can have different views/opinions - in fact it is imperative that they do for proper vetting (thus reason why scientific papers need to be peered reviewed). As long as Facts are considered (and not 'it is a fact I feel that way') - I am okay with differing opinions. In fact as a Scientist - I seek these out (or did up until 2 weeks ago...).

Peace... oops. I mean good luck... oops, I mean good science 

@AbelowDS - the point about the sun shirts is that they offer better protect than sunscreens without the potential for harm (except the shirts are synthtic ). However, it is a fact that common sunscreen protection products are harmful to coral (algae) AND these levels can be measured in the water around the coral.  I do think that coral bleaching due to water temperatures rising (fact) is likely a greater risk.  But life is not black/white, and discounting one over the other is dangerous (scientifically).


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## fillde (May 14, 2017)

I'd like to add my 2 scoops, oops, I meant 2 cents. I observed a sign that was pretty obvious, advocating a different form of government we currently have. I didn't believe this was the correct forum to espouse that opinion.  The moderators  agreed. 

So let's move on.


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## dioxide45 (May 14, 2017)

fillde said:


> I'd like to add my 2 scoops, oops, I meant 2 cents. I observed a sign that was pretty obvious, advocating a different form of government we currently have. I didn't believe this was the correct forum to espouse that opinion.  The moderators  agreed.
> 
> So let's move on.


Perhaps you should have reported the post instead? Your post pointing out the infraction is just as much an infraction as the original post, no?


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## BJRSanDiego (May 16, 2017)

AbelowDS said:


> I like this. Personally, I would like to keep Moss and mildew off of my body. Just another readonly people are more important than the environment in this case.
> 
> (Am I starting another wave of debate with this comment?  Am I joking or not...?)
> 
> Sent from my SM-T580 using Tapatalk


The zinc basically kills plant organisms that create chlorophyll through photosynthesis.  This occurs at a fairly low PPM level.  Inhibiting photosynthesis in the ocean doesn't sound like a terribly good idea.

Zinc along with an oil on the skin probably isn't a high risk to humans.  

My purpose of posting was just to point out that even the alternatives (zinc ointment) may not be without its own set of unique problems.


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