# is it worth not honoring (stop paying) TS contract after rescind period is over? (2013)



## bioleal (Mar 15, 2013)

hello all... 

I searched for this answer but did not find the answer anywhere (Timeshare 101, etc)..

We purchased a TS from the developer, and we are past the rescind period. We have Not even started the first payment of the financing...

Is it worth not honoring (Not paying) TS contract after the rescind period?
I mean, getting bombarded by Collection and having trouble with our credit?

I imagine we would loose our down payment and get our Credit hammered (not sure how bad), but what else?

Anyone at TUG have done that? what were the consequences? Worth to fight after rescind period is over?

Thanks!


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## Passepartout (Mar 15, 2013)

I'd say you have a pretty good grasp of the consequences. Being turned over to collection, getting calls at all hours, having your credit take a hit, possible inability to buy a house or car- or at least without paying exorbitant rates.

Why didn't you rescind when you could? The law was on your side for 3-10 or more days.  Many here have bought from the developers. Most chalked it up to a bad judgement. Saw that even though they found out like you did that better deals exist, the value they saw when they bought is still there. Pay it off, hang around TUG. Learn to get the best use of what you bought. Don't buy retail again.

Best wishes. 

Welcome to TUG.


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## RX8 (Mar 15, 2013)

bioleal said:


> hello all...
> 
> I searched for this answer but did not find the answer anywhere (Timeshare 101, etc)..
> 
> ...



If you have signed a finance contract, and sounds like you have, it is likely with a third party lender.  It isn't any different if you used your VISA to buy a bedroom set only to later decide you didn't want the bedroom set.  if you stop paying the monthy payments to VISA because you don't like the bedroom set VISA won't be happy because they lent you the money in good faith. They will do their best to get you to pay what is owed to them.

What can happen?  Collection calls, foreclosure, judgements, and garnishments.  Of course all that can affect your credit score and profile causing you to pay higher interest rates assuming another bank still deems you credit worthy to be approved.

Will all this happen?  No one can say for sure.  Is it worth it to find out?  That is only a question that you can answer.

Where did you purchase?  Why the change of heart so quickly after purchasing?

Wish you luck whatever you decide to do.


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## timeos2 (Mar 15, 2013)

As mentioned above there is a very big difference between not paying annual fees due to a resort vs not paying a personal loan made for a timeshare (or any) purchase. 

Just because it is a timeshare does not change the fact that you agreed to pay back the lender, plus interest.  They, based on that agreement/promise, paid the Developer tens of thousands of dollars (or whatever the purchase price was) for you. Now you owe that cash back to them or you will suffer serious financial impact on your credit score and the ability to get any loan for many years to come. A default will seriously damage your overall credit worthiness. 

You may want to try to get a discounted buy out of the contract rather than defaulting. Good luck.


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## DeniseM (Mar 15, 2013)

More info. about what the OP bought - sounds like a scam in itself.

http://tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1433267#post1433267


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## Rent_Share (Mar 15, 2013)

From your other post



> In the event of default by OWNER, Value Received shall be due and payable on demand OWNER further agrees that in the event legal action arises in connection with this Agreement, the successful party shall recover from the other, responsible and actual legal costs and attorneys fees as governed by the state of Quintana Roo, Mexico.


 
Unless you have assets in Mexico I cannot imagine what possible consequence a judgment in Mexico will have on your credit rating or financial well being.

If the organization had assets or an office in the US they might have a venue clause that could have you defending a lawsuit in the same state where they had holdings (A judgment in another state has to be reconfirmed In the state where the debtor has assets in order for the judgment creditor to take action.) A Mexican entity has no standing in local court.

If you do default I would scratch Mexico off my list of vacation destinations, Under British Common Law, which the law of the US states is based on (except Louisiana) there is a clear distinction between civil and criminal matters, and unless there is fraud involved you cannot be put in jail for non-payment of a civil debt (anymore), I am not sure I would trust the Federales an/or Policia to hold up to that same standard, since despite their efforts to court tourism, roadside justice and adjudication still occurs.


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## timeos2 (Mar 15, 2013)

The potential problem is if an American based firm is paying off the seller based on those loan promises. If that is the case they couldn't care less what or where it went - they gave that group the cash in exchange for the promised loan payments.  And as an American based firm (if they are) they can use American reporting agencies / collection agencies to get that money back. 

You want to be very careful who/what is involved here. If it's all Mexican based and likely two or more Mexican scam operators in collusion then you can safely walk away. But if they have American ties things might not be so easy to get out of.


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## bioleal (Mar 15, 2013)

RX8 said:


> Where did you purchase?  Why the change of heart so quickly after purchasing?



- *We purchased a membership at* Hacienda Tres Rios (presumably from Sunset group) in Playa del Carmen, which would give access to all 4 resorts in that cancun/Playa area.  It includes every 2 years: "flex" 1 registered week (studio for $760 w/ option to up-grade for 1 or 2 bed) and an option of 1 "VIP week" (same above but optional) ; and the "right" to pay for 2 weeks/year exchange in their Interclub (network). Both registered and VIP weeks are AI optional.

- *Why did I change idea?* I actually did not; we really liked what we saw (both Tres Rios and Fisherman's), and even tough we promised ourselves "Not to buy" at the presentation.... when the seller said we could get rid of our existing time share (Trade it), we end up wanting really bad that place... so we did it... 

*What makes me want to flip a finger to them*, are some lies in the presentation (not worded in the contract) like the privileges of their VIP network (http://vip-travel-club.com) which seem way too mysterious, and no one has information about it. Also, the 2 exchangeable weeks/year was supposed to be through II, RCI, Interclub and VIP... and in fact is only Interclub.

As other pointed out in my other post, about "value trade agreement" ... the "trading" of our existing TimeShare for this one; is most likely a scam... so TUG members recommended me not to send any document or pay the up-front $500 fee

The information we have at TUG is that they are overbooked.

Plus Sunset has such a bad reputation (in the web and TUG), that I am not sure what in the contract would ever materialize. 

... if we could trade our existing timeshare as promissed, easily use our weeks (availability as they promised), and use the benefits of their VIP network... we would still be happy, even after paying way too much... but so far it seems there are a lot of lies to be discovered ...

I tried to contact other Sunset members here at TUG, about how good/bad are their experiences about reserving, trading using Interclub/VIP...  but no one responded...


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## Rent_Share (Mar 15, 2013)

timeos2 said:


> The potential problem is if an American based firm is paying off the seller based on those loan promises. If that is the case they couldn't care less what or where it went - they gave that group the cash in exchange for the promised loan payments. And as an American based firm (if they are) they can use American reporting agencies / collection agencies to get that money back.
> 
> You want to be very careful who/what is involved here. If it's all Mexican based and likely two or more Mexican scam operators in collusion then you can safely walk away. But if they have American ties things might not be so easy to get out of.


 
The Limited Documents provided clearly indicated a venue clause of Quintana Roo, Mexico, I have never seen a contract with two venue clauses in it. The OP could wait for valid sevice of process in the state they live in before considering paying anything


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## bioleal (Mar 15, 2013)

hello David and John;

Yes, the finance was done with two Mexican companies FINCONPRO and Promotora Sunset Beach Clubs.

I am still trying to reach TUGers that have membership with Sunset, to set streght our expectations...  but someow no luck 

Hello.. any Sunset members out there ?


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## Dani.D (Sep 13, 2017)

bioleal said:


> hello David and John;
> 
> Yes, the finance was done with two Mexican companies FINCONPRO and Promotora Sunset Beach Clubs.
> 
> ...




Hi bioleal,

It sounds like my parents are currently in the nearly exact same situation that you were in, with the same finance company, timeshare company and resort. Over the past week I've posted messages and received great feedback in another thread on this website, but I'm just wondering how your situation turned out? Did you cease all payments? If so, did you suffer any consequences from FINCONPRO, Sunset, or Hacienda Tres Rios? I know it's a long shot that you'll see this message, since you were dealing with your dilemma several years ago and you may not visit this site anymore, but if you see it, I'd love to hear how your story turned out!

Thanks!


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## Passepartout (Sep 13, 2017)

We would too, but bioleal has not been on TUG since April of 2013. Try clicking on their blue username and click 'Start a Conversation'. After you post your private message, the recipient will be notified via the email address they registered with. If they have changed their email, they wouldn't get the message, but that's your best shot. They are still showing as a member, but I betcha it's expired.

Jim


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## Momanda (Nov 29, 2017)

Dani.D said:


> Hi bioleal,
> 
> It sounds like my parents are currently in the nearly exact same situation that you were in, with the same finance company, timeshare company and resort. Over the past week I've posted messages and received great feedback in another thread on this website, but I'm just wondering how your situation turned out? Did you cease all payments? If so, did you suffer any consequences from FINCONPRO, Sunset, or Hacienda Tres Rios? I know it's a long shot that you'll see this message, since you were dealing with your dilemma several years ago and you may not visit this site anymore, but if you see it, I'd love to hear how your story turned out!
> 
> Thanks!




I'm going through a similar nightmare with this company now as we speak 
These people are CROOKS and THEIFS 
We signed up and read through everything the next day with clear ( sober) heads only to realize what a big mistake we had made ..... we went back and canceled ... the sales manager said no problem did what he told us and said we'd be refunded. 
Now it's going on week 3 and I'm looking into hiring some outside help as I've called and emailed too no avail. 
Ive had very minor responses only to be 'resold' on the idea that we would want this package of BS.
I'm really hoping that they do the right thing and am completely saddened at the fact that I will probably NEVER return to Mexico now because this has just tainted me. 
I will keep you updated 
Amanda


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## theo (Nov 29, 2017)

Momanda said:


> <snip> We signed up and read through everything the next day with clear ( sober) heads only to realize what a big mistake we had made ..... *we went back and canceled ... the sales manager said no problem*... <snip> ... Now it's going on week 3... <snip>
> I'm really hoping that they do the right thing...



I'm a bit concerned about your somewhat vague summary that "we went back and canceled", as well as "the sales manager said no problem".
Sadly, timeshare sales weasels are notorious liars and those in Mexico are certainly among the most deceitful to be found anywhere on the planet.

Did you submit your contract cancellation *in writing and signed*, obtaining a receipt or some other written acknowledgement when you submitted it?
It's likely that your contract specifically stated a requirement to cancel *in writing* within the time period specified by applicable law (5 days in Mexico).

I hope your  cancellation effort was more than a (completely meaningless) verbal exchange. If it was just a conversation and cancellation was not submitted in writing, signed by all who signed the contract, the position in that den of weasels today might well be that "no written cancellation was ever submitted".


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## Momanda (Dec 1, 2017)

theo said:


> I'm a bit concerned about your somewhat vague summary that "we went back and canceled", as well as "the sales manager said no problem".
> Sadly, timeshare sales weasels are notorious liars and those in Mexico are certainly among the most deceitful to be found anywhere on the planet.
> 
> Did you submit your contract cancellation *in writing and signed*, obtaining a receipt or some other written acknowledgement when you submitted it?
> ...



Yes we did in fact do it in writing and had it signed by the sales manager and dated.
And as an update ... I just got our cancelation and request for refund information. 
I am beyond happy to have this mistake behind me . Shame on me if I ever fall for something like this again.


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## Passepartout (Dec 1, 2017)

Momanda said:


> Yes we did in fact do it in writing and had it signed by the sales manager and dated.
> And as an update ... I just got our cancelation and request for refund information.
> I am beyond happy to have this mistake behind me . Shame on me if I ever fall for something like this again.


Since you only started posting here a week ago, WHEN did you sign the contract you wanted to cancel? If you sent the rescission letter, or as you said- hand carried it to the sales office (something we don't recommend as it just gives them another chance to sell you more). I saw that it had been 3 weeks since you rescinded. Actually, that's pretty fast. We usually tell people to be patient for up to 45 days, and the fact that you were notified is doubly fortunate. That usually doesn't happen, and there is no legal requirement that they do it.

We're happy that instructions you read here worked for you and you saved a bundle. No need to stay away from Mexico, but leave the sales rooms alone They're poison!

Jim


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## Momanda (Dec 13, 2017)

We were there from nov 5-9 and signed on the 7 and canceled the morning they opened on the 9 th 
This whole mess was a nightmare and I had hired an advocate .... their rates were WAY cheaper than the other company I looked at that your forum recommended NOT USING , so I thank you for that!  
As well he quoted it would only be a 30 day contract not a yr. 
and I agree with you about ever setting foot in ANY sales office again but I will gladly stick to other side of the world for now. 
Headed to the phillipenes next. 
Amanda


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## StarFerry62 (Dec 13, 2017)

Passepartout said:


> We would too, but bioleal has not been on TUG since April of 2013. Try clicking on their blue username and click 'Start a Conversation'. After you post your private message, the recipient will be notified via the email address they registered with. If they have changed their email, they wouldn't get the message, but that's your best shot. They are still showing as a member, but I betcha it's expired.
> 
> Jim



So... Trying to think outside the box a little...

If it was really important to communicate with BIOLEAL, I would try a couple of other search strategies:

BIOLEAL sounds like a pretty unusual name and I think that many of us use the same Usernames on different web sites...

I did a quick Google search and found someone by the name of "BIO LEAL" on Facebook. This person lives in Brazil but also seems to speak English . -  It's a long shot, but might be worth sending this person a quick message on FB... (particularly as the original TUG discussion was focused on a Mexican TS)...?

I also see someone with an email address of BIOLEAL@GMAIL.COM...

It is scary the amount of information you can find on the internet now, and I hope I'm not being too creepy here, but if it were me, and it was important, I would try sending a quick message via these two channels, just to see if they are the same person..

I would probably just send a very quick message along the lines of:

"Sorry to bother you... Trying to contact someone by the name of BIOLEAL who used to be on the Timeshare User group called TUG. If this is not you, apologies and please ignore...  "


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## lorilorilori (Feb 14, 2018)

Momanda said:


> Yes we did in fact do it in writing and had it signed by the sales manager and dated.
> And as an update ... I just got our cancelation and request for refund information.
> I am beyond happy to have this mistake behind me . Shame on me if I ever fall for something like this again.


We have had the same experience as you.  We weren't going to buy the timeshare until we heard all of the good things and the prices and extra weeks.  After watching the sales guy drawing boxes of weeks and that they wanted to give us 2 extra weeks to sell back to them for 5 years, etc.  we fell for it.  By the time we got back to the motel I was itching to read the contract in a quiet place with no one watching and what I heard was not on the contract.  It said one week per year with a VIP week of every other year.  Flex, biennial, so confusing!  We wrote the cancellation letter, sent it registered mail ( we were able to do that via a website).  I'm just hoping that we jumped through the correct hoops to really cancel it.  Any suggestions?


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## Passepartout (Feb 14, 2018)

lorilorilori said:


> By the time we got back to the motel I was itching to read the contract in a quiet place with no one watching and what I heard was not on the contract.  It said one week per year with a VIP week of every other year.  Flex, biennial, so confusing!  We wrote the cancellation letter, sent it registered mail ( we were able to do that via a website).  I'm just hoping that we jumped through the correct hoops to really cancel it.  Any suggestions?


As long as you sent it within the time frame for the rescission, and both signers of the contract signed the rescission letter, you will be fine. Congratulations on finding us in time to save yourselves many thousands of dollars. Go back to your vacation and we'll talk when you get home.

Jim


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## Braindead (Feb 14, 2018)

lorilorilori said:


> We wrote the cancellation letter, sent it registered mail ( we were able to do that via a website).  I'm just hoping that we jumped through the correct hoops to really cancel it.  Any suggestions?


Via a website ?


Passepartout said:


> As long as you sent it within the time frame for the rescission, and both signers of the contract signed the rescission letter, you will be fine. Congratulations on finding us in time to save yourselves many thousands of dollars. Go back to your vacation and we'll talk when you get home.
> 
> Jim


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## Passepartout (Feb 14, 2018)

I wondered about that 'website' thing, too. Certified USPS is what needs to be used. Not Registered, and not a 'website'. Care to clarify, Lori?


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## lorilorilori (Feb 14, 2018)

THe website is onlinecertifiedmail.com.  It says the letter will be postmarked tomorrow and we have a tracking number.  Do you think this is sufficient?


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## DeniseM (Feb 14, 2018)

I am not sure that your online receipt will be considered valid - it's not a receipt from the post office.

This letter does not have your actual handwritten signatures.

The website says it can take 2 days to go out, so 2 days until it is postmarked.


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## Passepartout (Feb 15, 2018)

lorilorilori said:


> THe website is onlinecertifiedmail.com.  It says the letter will be postmarked tomorrow and we have a tracking number.  Do you think this is sufficient?


We would feel better if you have an actual receipt from the US Post Office for sending a Certified letter w/return receipt. You will too when you can see who signs for it.


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## theo (Feb 15, 2018)

lorilorilori said:


> *We wrote the cancellation letter, sent it registered mail ( we were able to do that via a website).*  I'm just hoping that we jumped through the correct hoops to really cancel it.  Any suggestions?



Frankly, I would send signed, hard copy rescission correspondence all over again *by USPS certified mail* and obtain a date stamped receipt at the USPS counter (assuming that you are still within the rescission period at all).

I absolutely would *not* rely upon that Internet mechanism / process / electronic signature on a matter of such importance.
If you miss the rescission postmark date deadline for any reason, or if an electronically submitted signature is not accepted as valid, you *will* be a legal owner of record, like it or not. It's your decision, but I definitely would not take that risk.


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## theo (Feb 15, 2018)

lorilorilori said:


> THe website is onlinecertifiedmail.com.  *It says the letter will be postmarked tomorrow* and we have a tracking number.  Do you think this is sufficient?



Do you *really* want to stake the validity of a timely and properly submitted  rescission on a Internet message from a third party (non-USPS) entity, providing no documentary proof of the *actual* postmark date-to-be, after you've relayed only electronic signatures? That's entirely your prerogative, but I certainly would *not* do *any* of that.

It may be "belt and suspenders", but I would frankly submit your rescission all over again, immediately and from start to finish, with real ink signatures of all who signed the original contract, sent by certified (not registered) U.S. Mail and obtaining a hard copy, date stamped receipt of postmark date.  Anything short of that effort has inherent risks with potentially undesirable consequences if the recipient determines or asserts that you have not met the specified requirements for a proper and timely submitted rescission --- now you have a battle on your hands. Why risk that possibility over a few dollars in postage?


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## T_R_Oglodyte (Feb 15, 2018)

theo said:


> Frankly, I would send signed, hard copy rescission correspondence all over again *by USPS certified mail* and obtain a date stamped receipt at the USPS counter (assuming that you are still within the rescission period at all).



FWIW - you do not have to go to the counter at a post office to send a certified letter.  If the post office has an electronic machine for handling mail, you can send a certified letter using the machine. (Follow the instructions on the screen.)  When you are done with the transaction, the machine will generate a receipt that is proof of mailing and that has the tracking number on it.  

A nice advantage of the machines is that they are available 24 hours per day.


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## VacationForever (Feb 15, 2018)

Why take a chance through a third party website, with much to lose?


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## lorilorilori (Feb 15, 2018)

One other question:  The contract states that we have 5 business days counted from the business day following the contracts signing to cancel the contract.  We are going to do what you guys suggested and send the cancellation again once we get back to the states which would be the saturday following the signing on tuesday.  I am thinking that the 5 business days give us until next tuesday to have it postmarked.  In which case us getting this out on monday, the 4th business day after the signing would be within the parameters of the contract.  Do you see it this way?


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## theo (Feb 16, 2018)

lorilorilori said:


> One other question:  The contract states that we have 5 business days counted from the business day following the contracts signing to cancel the contract.  We are going to do what you guys suggested and *send the cancellation again once we get back to the states* which would be the saturday following the signing on tuesday.  I am thinking that the 5 business days give us until next tuesday to have it postmarked.  In which case us getting this out on monday, the 4th business day after the signing would be within the parameters of the contract.  Do you see it this way?



I was not aware that your purchase was in another country; that relevant detail was not previously disclosed.
In the U.S., contract rescission periods (and business vs. calendar days) is addressed within each individual state's law.

I would be *inclined* to agree with your interpretation, but certainly am not rendering a legal opinion --- I don't even know what country you are in now (Mexico maybe?), or how *they* legally define "business days". Just do it *as soon as you can* (...btw, you could also take care of this in person, "off Net" while still right there, wherever "right there" may be).


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## T_R_Oglodyte (Feb 16, 2018)

Is certified mail even available for deliveries outside the US?  If the letter is no longer in USPS hands, how could USPS track delivery?

********

What is the specific language in your contract regarding cancellation?  Does it say post-marked within five business days?  If it doesn't say postmarked or mailed, the developer might say that since they didn't receive the cancellation within five business days, the cancellation period is over. 

If you are still at the resort, I would go to the sales office and deliver the cancellation in person. If you're there as a couple, maybe have one of you take a time-stamped picture or video of the other person delivering the notice. 

Or send it via fax, and retain the fax printout.  I would use a business office fax service that provides a receipt, because the receipt will show the number it was sent to, that the transmission was successful, and the date and time.


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## Garcia7 (Jul 27, 2018)

Passepartout said:


> I'd say you have a pretty good grasp of the consequences. Being turned over to collection, getting calls at all hours, having your credit take a hit, possible inability to buy a house or car- or at least without paying exorbitant rates.
> 
> Why didn't you rescind when you could? The law was on your side for 3-10 or more days.  Many here have bought from the developers. Most chalked it up to a bad judgement. Saw that even though they found out like you did that better deals exist, the value they saw when they bought is still there. Pay it off, hang around TUG. Learn to get the best use of what you bought. Don't buy retail again.
> 
> ...


Is this for all timeshares?


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