# new to the game  Starwood question



## reiselustig (Jul 26, 2007)

Just back from Kauai and having sat through a preview presentation by Starwood for their new project, the Westin Villas at Princeville, our head is still spinning from the complexity of the whole timeshare business. Being quite overwhelmed by all the "options", "points", memberstatus etc, I turn to this forum, as it seems that many of you are vetrans at the game of timesharing (and - for the most part - seem to be happy with it).
I do believe that timesharing might actually work well for our family, but we have so many questions and reservations - I would really appreciate any help you can give us:
1) Many of the users in this forum strongly recommend against purchasing from the developer and to buy reslae instead, however, we really like the flexibility feature with TS trades and/or hotel points, as we sometimes go abroad and just need a couple of nights in a cool city. Is there any other way to get the benefit of theses privileges wo purchasing direct?
2) We are looking at an EOY 2BR lockoff unit (1,311 sq ft)  at @ $34,000 (with 148,000, "options" or 86,400 hotel points every two years). This property will be developed next to a posh (soon to be posher, they say) hotel and tie in with certain privileges (no details were given on that - anyone know?). Is that totally overpriced or considered reasonable, considering the location?
3) Owning a Hawaii TS - how easy is it to get a trade in another exotic location (say: Carribean or Mexico)?
4) Anybody have personal experiences (good/bad/indifferent) in dealing with Starwood VO? I have fired off a list of questions we still had to our rep from the preview on Sunday and have yet to get a response... 
Thank you for your help - 
RL


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## grgs (Jul 26, 2007)

First off, read this TUG article for an overview on the Starwood system:

http://www.tug2.net/advice/Starwood_Vacation_Network.htm



reiselustig said:


> 1) Many of the users in this forum strongly recommend against purchasing from the developer and to buy reslae instead, however, we really like the flexibility feature with TS trades and/or hotel points, as we sometimes go abroad and just need a couple of nights in a cool city. Is there any other way to get the benefit of theses privileges wo purchasing direct?



Most here feel that the ability to trade your timeshare for hotel points isn't a good reason to buy from the developer.  Keep in mind that maintenance fees for the Westin Princeville are very high (around $1800).  You still have to pay that + a $99 fee to trade for the 86,400 points, which will get you about 10 nights in a Starwood category 4--much fewer nights in a higher category hotel.  This is one perk, though, that you can only get by buying from the developer.

If you buy a mandatory resale unit (read the advice article and you'll know what I'm talking about), you will still be able to trade internally with StarOptions.



reiselustig said:


> 2) We are looking at an EOY 2BR lockoff unit (1,311 sq ft)  at @ $34,000 (with 148,000, "options" or 86,400 hotel points every two years). This property will be developed next to a posh (soon to be posher, they say) hotel and tie in with certain privileges (no details were given on that - anyone know?). Is that totally overpriced or considered reasonable, considering the location?



Resale units in the sold out Westin Ka'anapali development are selling in the low 30's for *EY* ocean view.  So basically, you could buy an EY in Maui for the price of an EOY in Princeville from the developer.

With the high maintenance fees, I would only buy Princeville if I wanted to go there most of the time.  If you plan to trade, there are much less expensive ways to get into the Starwood system.

Best of luck, and keep asking questions!

Glorian


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## Westin5Star (Jul 26, 2007)

I believe on www.myresortnetwork.com through Fred M. a Princeville 2BR LO sold for $29,990 or less for an Every Year (EY).  Paying $4k more for an EOY to exchange for hotel points doesn't make sense with the high MF.  The conversion to hotel points RARELY makes sense.  I actually just bought two EOY two months ago at Princeville for $23k but I am already an SVO owner so I was offerred a discount.  BUY RESALE where you want to go!  There are not a lot of Princeville resales available right now, however, I assure you that 6 months from now there will be many resale options for you at this resort.  I would encourage you to read TUG for a few months before buying anything.  It saved my over $100k in the last 6 months with my purchases and I have learned a lot.  Good luck with your decision.


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## nell (Jul 26, 2007)

Others on this board are more TS savvy than me, but here is my two cents.
I would buy a mandatory resort resale, this would give you the option of trading within SVO.  Then I would apply for the Starwood American Express card and charge all possible monthly expenses.  This would give you the starpoints you might want.  With what you would save on a resale property, you could easily pay for the hotel nights you might use for many a year.


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## Fredm (Jul 27, 2007)

reiselustig said:


> Just back from Kauai and having sat through a preview presentation by Starwood for their new project, the Westin Villas at Princeville, our head is still spinning from the complexity of the whole timeshare business. Being quite overwhelmed by all the "options", "points", memberstatus etc, I turn to this forum, as it seems that many of you are vetrans at the game of timesharing (and - for the most part - seem to be happy with it).
> I do believe that timesharing might actually work well for our family, but we have so many questions and reservations - I would really appreciate any help you can give us:
> 1) Many of the users in this forum strongly recommend against purchasing from the developer and to buy reslae instead, however, we really like the flexibility feature with TS trades and/or hotel points, as we sometimes go abroad and just need a couple of nights in a cool city. Is there any other way to get the benefit of theses privileges wo purchasing direct?
> 2) We are looking at an EOY 2BR lockoff unit (1,311 sq ft)  at @ $34,000 (with 148,000, "options" or 86,400 hotel points every two years). This property will be developed next to a posh (soon to be posher, they say) hotel and tie in with certain privileges (no details were given on that - anyone know?). Is that totally overpriced or considered reasonable, considering the location?
> ...



reiselustig:

The 86,400 StarPoints would not be available every other year, as you are buying an EOY.  Use may be converted to StarPoints in non-consecutive use-years. Therefore, you may elect the StarPoints alternative to occupancy once every four years (if you buy from the developer).


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## pointsjunkie (Jul 27, 2007)

i own developer weeks and resale weeks and i love the ability to convert to starpoints.but you will only be able to do it once every 4 years so it does not seem logical to spend all that extra money to do this. i would purchase an ey mandatory resort off the resale market where you would like to go and then you should get an explorer package where you would like to own and then buy another unit so you can requalify the resale unit and then both will get you the starpoints you would like.

definitely get the AMEX starwood card and put everything on it. look for thread on the new promotion to get many more starpoints. 


good luck


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## LisaRex (Jul 27, 2007)

Here's the latest and greatest deal for the Starwood AMEX.  It's a pretty sweet deal.  No matter what route you go (and I highly, highly encourage you to buy resale), Starwood AMEX is a great card for $30. Not only can you accumulate StarPoints with everyday purchases, but you can transfer them 1:1 (+ a 5k bonus when you xfer 20k) to most airline frequent flyer accounts.  I've earned 6 round-trip tickets to Hawaii since I started using loyalty cards and it's well worth the couple hundred bucks in annual fees I pay. 

https://www201.americanexpress.com/...EAID=&EAID=3RNjq32bW*o-tYe9FuyleAwXIFTG7eaZaA

Highlights of the program: 
  Earn 10,000 Starpoints with your first purchase 
  Plus– earn an additional 15,000 Starpoints when you spend $15,000 in 6 months


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## reiselustig (Jul 27, 2007)

Thank you to all that have responded so far. It is really nice to know that there is a number of knowlegeable people out there, willing to share the insights they have learned over the years. The whole business seems to be laid out to confuse you, the customer, it seems!
We are in no particular hurry about any of this, just thought after seeing the presentation that owning  a TS might be a good option for us. Had never entered my mind before...
Some of you own units at the Westin Kaanapali, Maui - what do you think?
Are they nice and do they trade well? Maybe that might be a buying resale option for us down the road.


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## vacationtime1 (Jul 27, 2007)

reiselustig said:


> Some of you own units at the Westin Kaanapali, Maui - what do you think?
> Are they nice and do they trade well? Maybe that might be a buying resale option for us down the road.



You are on the right track.  A few thoughts:

Westin Kaanapali (WKORV) is a "nice" property -- very nice.  We stayed there last month and loved it.  

Buying resale is paramount.  Assuming you buy resale, if you decide you don't like the resort, the view category, or whatever, the economic cost is not too bad; you can sell for about what you pay.

If you buy at WKORV, the view category is very important.  Some of the island views look at parking lots; this may be less significant at WKORV-N than at WKORV, but this is not yet clear.  Rent first and scope the place out before deciding.

Most of us think buying Hawaii properties makes no sense for exchanging.  Hawaii maintenance fees are large ($2,200 at Princeville, $1,650 at WKORV, etc.) and if you buy a Starwood Hawaii property, substantially all exchanges will be trades down.

Most important: continue your research.


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## nell (Jul 27, 2007)

vacationtime1 said:


> You are on the right track.  A few thoughts:
> 
> Westin Kaanapali (WKORV) is a "nice" property -- very nice.  We stayed there last month and loved it.
> 
> ...



I agree with all of the above.  Remember also if you were to trade through II, Starwood is able to pick the week and resort that is deposited with II. This could (and probably will) mean that you would be actually trading with a lesser week than you purchased. You could choose to trade through an independent (SFX, etc.)and use your Hawaii week.  Most exchanges would be considered a step down especially because of the high maintenance fees. I couldn't really gather from your post if you would be using your home resort most of time or trading.


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## reiselustig (Jul 27, 2007)

I think the Hawaii property would be used for both home base (we fell in love with Kauai last week), but also for trading, as we tire going to the same place, however nice it may be, again and again.
In addition - we both have family (and parents that will becom less able to come visit us) in foreign countries, so we pretty much know that in the future in some years we will just have to make the unit available for trade and collect points or altogether rent the unit.
By the way, how does Maui compare with Kauai, in terms of the island itself?
I just loved the tropical, less developed and laid back atmosphere there (no buildings higher than 4 stories, no noisy watersports on the beach) and was wondering if Maui is considered similar.


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## stevens397 (Jul 27, 2007)

First of all, you asked about trading and I don't see that it's been answered.  If you read the Advice article (link was provided), you'll see that working within the Starwood system, your unit would be no better and no worse than any one else's with the same number of StarOptions.  It's a reasonable question from someone new to the system but it's irrelevant within the Starwood network.

That said, you could certainly try to trade through an outside trading company and I'm sure you would find it trades very, very well.

As to your last question, Kauai and Maui are two very different islands.  The Westin in Maui is just off the busy hotel area (I've heard it compared to Miami Beach!).  But it really is beautiful.  When we were in Hawaii two years ago, we stayed at the Ritz in Maui and at the Princeville in Kauai.  We loved them both.  Hawaii is a long trip - especially for us on the east coast.  Most people from this area spend more than one week there.  So one option would be to buy in Maui, get the Starwood credit card, and spend a week in Maui and some days at the Princeville or Sheraton in Kauai when you go.


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## LisaRex (Jul 27, 2007)

reiselustig said:


> By the way, how does Maui compare with Kauai, in terms of the island itself?  I just loved the tropical, less developed and laid back atmosphere there (no buildings higher than 4 stories, no noisy watersports on the beach) and was wondering if Maui is considered similar.



Ask and thou shalt receive: 

http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=51351

Long story short: Maui is definitely more developed than Kauai.  If you fell in love with how laid back Kauai is, I doubt you'd find Maui charming.


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