# Manhattan Club Maintenance Fee Problems



## Tamaradarann (Nov 24, 2018)

We have heard at one of the (Sign up for our Destination Club for a few thousand dollars and you can go anywhere you want with no maintenance fees and we will take your timeshare away from you so you no longer need to pay maintenance fees Dinners) that the Manhattan Club has serious maintenance fee problems with maintenance fees over $3000 per week.  Does anyone have any information about how the Manhattan Club got into this problem.  This is a concern that all timeshare owners should have.


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## tombanjo (Nov 24, 2018)

A long long story - but here is a brief result

https://ag.ny.gov/press-release/ag-...ettlement-midtown-manhattan-timeshare-scammed


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## alwysonvac (Nov 24, 2018)

The Manhattan Club will be managed in the future by Bluegreen - https://tugbbs.com/forums/index.php?threads/bluegreen-to-acquire-the-manhattan-club.275740/

Here are some old TUG threads about Manhattan Club 

2013 - https://tugbbs.com/forums/index.php?threads/manhattan-club-timeshare-ripped-in-article.202743/
2012 - https://tugbbs.com/forums/index.php?threads/copy-of-article-written-about-the-manhattan-club.175570/
2011 - https://tugbbs.com/forums/index.php...ainst-manhattan-club-developer-merged.151277/


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## chefcristo (Dec 17, 2018)

99% of TMC owners have been defrauded, scammed and duped from the moment they stepped into the 2-floor sales office for their "presentation", i.e., lies and misrepresentations, from their ultimate purchase until the present.  owners are left with exponentially exorbitant maintenance fees and major difficulty getting desirable reservations.  the former new york state attorney general, eric schneiderman's in his case against TMC/IAN BRUCE EICHNER,  acceptance of the so-called litigation "settlement" was a disgrace which left TMC shareowners with the same problems we currently face.  schneiderman's undercover agents attended and recorded TMC sales presentions and proved, i believe, that criminal fraud in the form of false and misleading sales statements took place.  there was a bait-and-switch scenario that occurred.

a discussion on this forum,  offering ideas for solutions to these common issues/problems,  will be helpful for us owners to obtain justice for being defrauded.  the end result is that we want substantially reduced maintenance fees, and restructuring of the reservation process, among other individual injustices.

we are in desperate need to get a high percentage of owners to even become aware of these issues involving their TMC investment.  many owners are not aware that forums like TUG exist.  they remain uninformed of the issues.  a possible solution is to obtain a list of owners with email addresses.  this list, i understand, will not be made available by TMC.  they do not want all of us owners to know of the above issues.  this is one issue where TUG members can offer ideas to accomplish this.

an FYI: there are many owners who are willing to literally give away their ownership to relieve themselves of the financially distressful burden to them created by TMC.


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## Maple_Leaf (Dec 22, 2018)

chefcristo said:


> an FYI: there are many owners who are willing to literally give away their ownership to relieve themselves of the financially distressful burden to them created by TMC.


Hey Chef, I heard a rumour that Manhattan Club is now taking deedbacks. My source thought that Bluegreen is looking for TMC inventory for their points club.


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## chefcristo (Dec 22, 2018)

Maple_Leaf said:


> Hey Chef, I heard a rumour that Manhattan Club is now taking deedbacks. My source thought that Bluegreen is looking for TMC inventory for their points club.


i can't say IF or HOW TMC is taking deedbacks.  some say they're doing so by offering $100 per week owned.  how incredulous/incredible is that?  you mention bluegreen, but  you left out ian bruce eichner, the initial developer.  my recall is rather sketchy on this point.  i believe part of schneiderman's nonsensical TMC SETTLEMENT was to give eichner 3 years (?) to give up TMC TIMESHARE OWNERSHIP.  as  bluegreen became a major part of the picture.  i can not guarantee the accuracy of these statements.  there have been so many interpretations about the SETTLEMENT that leaves most TMC owners questioning what is accurate and what is hearsay.  i am confident, however, that TMC owners are still in the same financially and otherwise distressed positions as we were before schneiderman's SETTLEMENT:  exponentially exorbitant maintenance fees, up over 500%..or close, since original purchase,  and inability of a huge percentage of owners to get desirable reservation due to (among other fraud) overselling of shares.
does anyone on this form have any constructive suggestions to remedy these issues?


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## tschwa2 (Dec 22, 2018)

chefcristo said:


> an FYI: there are many owners who are willing to literally give away their ownership to relieve themselves of the financially distressful burden to them created by TMC.



While TMC MF and other issues may be exponentially worse than many resorts, there are thousands and thousands of timeshare owners across the board who are willing to give away their ownership (even those that have paid $20,000-$80,000+ to buy in) or even pay hundreds or even thousands to relieve themselves of the "distressful burden"


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## chefcristo (Dec 22, 2018)

tschwa2 said:


> While TMC MF and other issues may be exponentially worse than many resorts, there are thousands and thousands of timeshare owners across the board who are willing to give away their ownership (even those that have paid $20,000-$80,000+ to buy in) or even pay hundreds or even thousands to relieve themselves of the "distressful burden"



understandable for those who can't bear the MF financial burden.  very telling.  that leaves ALL (or a majority percentage)  timeshare owners (regardless of their financial situation) victims of major fraud and deception that currently can be remedied only by further fraud.  paying off some other scammers to rid themselves of their timeshare is AN answer, but not THE answer.
what is the bottom-line,  essential necessity, albeit done via a long stressful path?
we need enforced state and national regulation and legislation to combat all those involved in the timeshare industry who continually and persistently perpetrate fraud, scams, shams and lies all of which may fall under the title of criminal acts.  it's called consumer protection legislation which seems to be "on the books," but rarely used in connection with timeshares.....other scams, like ponzi schemes seem to take precedence.  why is that?


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## alwysonvac (Dec 23, 2018)

Maybe you can reach out to more MC owners via Yahoo and Redweek.

There was a yahoo group at one time. 
2008 thread - https://tugbbs.com/forums/index.php?threads/manhattan-club-owners-unite.74433/

MC owners were also on the Redweek.com discussion board under Manhattan Club.
2015 thread - https://tugbbs.com/forums/index.php...gust-timeshare-meeting-info-available.228960/

Good Luck


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## Tamaradarann (Dec 23, 2018)

chefcristo said:


> understandable for those who can't bear the MF financial burden.  very telling.  that leaves ALL (or a majority percentage)  timeshare owners (regardless of their financial situation) victims of major fraud and deception that currently can be remedied only by further fraud.  paying off some other scammers to rid themselves of their timeshare is AN answer, but not THE answer.
> what is the bottom-line,  essential necessity, albeit done via a long stressful path?
> we need enforced state and national regulation and legislation to combat all those involved in the timeshare industry who continually and persistently perpetrate fraud, scams, shams and lies all of which may fall under the title of criminal acts.  it's called consumer protection legislation which seems to be "on the books," but rarely used in connection with timeshares.....other scams, like ponzi schemes seem to take precedence.  why is that?



I think the basis for a lot of these scams is that the timeshare industry: resorts associations, developers and associated sales teams are not willing to take back timeshares that have inflated prices to buy but no value on the secondary market.  Perhaps instead of the situation being that you must pay your maintenance forever even if you don't use or want your timeshare any longer the resort association, developer or sales team must take back the timeshare for $0 after all the outstanding maintenance fees are paid up to date.  It is bad enough that the owner fell for the inflated prices to initially buy the timeshare; we have all made bad purchasing decisions some major some minor.  However, to penalize that decision with increasing maintenance fees that must be paid forever is not correct or fair.   

The resort association then must decide how it will proceed with weeks that are returned.  It may result in the association selling them to existing owners who want them, renting out the weeks, or hiring a sales team to sell them.  If resorts have many vacant units which are not resulting in income from maintenance fees or rentals they may have to close sections of the resort or seasons at the resort to save on costs.  Ultimately, if the resort is not solvent it may need to be sold.


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## Fredflintstone (Dec 23, 2018)

Sigh...just another situation where renting an Airbnb or hotel makes sense over huge outlay, maintenance fees and being gouged for life because you signed in the dotted line.

It’s situations like this that really turn people off of any timeshare scheme or concept.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## chefcristo (Dec 23, 2018)

fred,
agreed...... 
however your comments are after the fact for those of us "innocents" and trusting souls who bought into the timeshare fraud , scam and lies, (I OWN AT THE MANHATTAN CLUB IN NYC, AS FRAUDULENT AN OPERATION IMAGINABLE,  ALONG WITH MORE THAN 14,000+++ OTHER SCAMMED PEOPLE) as bad as any ponzi scheme.  stupid? yes, in retrospect,  but now we're 'stucked" or f***** to put it more precisely.  that's exactly why i repeat,  we must get our legislators to create specific and enforceable state and national timeshare regulations and legislation. some timeshare swindlers are totally in (and out of) control, and it's nearly impossible to stop them.  it's fraud, and to the extent of the numbers of purchasers they defrauded, it's a crime.  ask bernie madoff.


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## chefcristo (Dec 24, 2018)

Tamaradarann said:


> We have heard at one of the (Sign up for our Destination Club for a few thousand dollars and you can go anywhere you want with no maintenance fees and we will take your timeshare away from you so you no longer need to pay maintenance fees Dinners) that the Manhattan Club has serious maintenance fee problems with maintenance fees over $3000 per week.  Does anyone have any information about how the Manhattan Club got into this problem.  This is a concern that all timeshare owners should have.




it's not the manhattan club (TMC) that has the "problem."  TMC created the problems for all of its sucker purchasers...over 14,000 of us, (including me!)  who bought in good faith and were defrauded, scammed, lied to and misled from the day of presentation (with a  sales staff,  very well- trained, who learned the art of swindling, fast talk, deception and empty promises from TMC developer, ian bruce eichner.   maintenance fees are now up over 500% +-, desirable reservations are impossible to get by many owners......due to, among other issues, overselling of share by eichner.  i won't take time detailing this long, arduous story,  but the former new york state attorney general, eric schneiderman took TMC/EICHNER to court based on the number of complaints received by his office.  after three years of litigation, a SETTLEMENT (A TOTAL SHAM) was reached.  schneiderman "won" his case and we TMC owners are currently in the same financial distress we were before schneiderman's SETTLEMENT.  i keep repeating, all timeshare owners are in dire need of state and national timeshare enforceable regulation and legislation. write to your legislators demanding this legislation. i did and am awaiting a response.
chris
ps:  the so-called DESTINATION CLUB is just so much dung (from whatever animal source).  many of those timeshare relievers companies are frauds themselves usually requiring upfront fees.  STAY AWAY.

pps:  any constructive suggestions for TMC owners for further legal action?


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## VacationForever (Dec 25, 2018)

chefcristo said:


> i can't say IF or HOW TMC is taking deedbacks.  some say they're doing so by offering $100 per week owned.  how incredulous/incredible is that?



This is your answer.  Take the $100 and run.  Run away from the escalating MF.


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## bogey21 (Dec 25, 2018)

I thank my lucky stars.  Many years ago when the Manhattan Club was just starting up I was walking by it and considered going in to stop in to see what they were offering.  At the time I was building my TS Portfolio.  Fortunately I was in a hurry and kept walking.  Clearly I dodged a bullet...

George


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## fillde (Dec 25, 2018)

I also dodged a bullet many years ago. I purchased a EOY week for 16,000 but was able to rescind.  I know it doesn't help you in regards to your MC ownership but it was nice to see Shneiderman resign. Of course he was able to dodge criminal charges. Chef I wish you luck.


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## chefcristo (Dec 25, 2018)

fillde said:


> I also dodged a bullet many years ago. I purchased a EOY week for 16,000 but was able to rescind.  I know it doesn't help you in regards to your MC ownership but it was nice to see Shneiderman resign. Of course he was able to dodge criminal charges. Chef I wish you luck.



tug ladies/gentlemen,
your responses to my comments are very much appreciated.  most of you are not owners in THE MANHATTAN CLUB (TMC) as i am (along with more than 14,000 other defrauded owners.)
be thankful for making a wise decision.  if you and others reading my comments have any more concrete suggestions/recommendations for TMC owners, please post them here.

enjoy your holidays!

thanks to all at TUG,
chris


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## Tamaradarann (Dec 25, 2018)

VacationForever said:


> This is your answer.  Take the $100 and run.  Run away from the escalating MF.



I posted above that there should be a law that the resort association, developer, or sales team must take back a timeshare unit for $0 so that the owner who no longer wants the unit doesn't have to keep paying maintenance.  While I still believe that is true in many cases and will help rid us of the pay upfront scams to get rid of your timeshare maintenance bills, that law won't help TMC owners since the TMC is offering $100 to take back the unit.  

However, Bluegreen, the new owner of TMC,  offering $100 to take back the units could be the initiation of another scam!!  Buying back units that initially cost $20K-80K to buy years ago for $100 is a good deal for Bluegreen.  They can then turn around and sell the units for at least $20K-80K.  Nice PROFIT.
Also, I don't know why the maintenance fees got so high at TMC, however, if Bluegreen can successfully turn ownership numbers around perhaps they will be able to 1/2 the maintenance fees and make TMC viable again.


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## Marathoner (Dec 25, 2018)

I, as I expect many others on this forum, am very sympathetic to chefcristo's predicament and I hope he can receive some restitution.

In reading the NY Attorney General summary of the settlement, it does sound like they banned the sponsor from the industry and received $6.5M for the owners.
https://ag.ny.gov/press-release/ag-...ettlement-midtown-manhattan-timeshare-scammed


Sent from my LG-H932 using Tapatalk


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## tschwa2 (Dec 25, 2018)

Tamaradarann said:


> I posted above that there should be a law that the resort association, developer, or sales team must take back a timeshare unit for $0 so that the owner who no longer wants the unit doesn't have to keep paying maintenance.  While I still believe that is true in many cases and will help rid us of the pay upfront scams to get rid of your timeshare maintenance bills, that law won't help TMC owners since the TMC is offering $100 to take back the unit.
> 
> However, Bluegreen, the new owner of TMC,  offering $100 to take back the units could be the initiation of another scam!!  Buying back units that initially cost $20K-80K to buy years ago for $100 is a good deal for Bluegreen.  They can then turn around and sell the units for at least $20K-80K.  Nice PROFIT.
> Also, I don't know why the maintenance fees got so high at TMC, however, if Bluegreen can successfully turn ownership numbers around perhaps they will be able to 1/2 the maintenance fees and make TMC viable again.



I don't think it is ever going to go down to half.  I think a more obtainable number would be $500-$800 less per year than it currently is and even that may not happen.


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## Tamaradarann (Dec 25, 2018)

Marathoner said:


> I, as I expect many others on this forum, am very sympathetic to chefcristo's predicament and I hope he can receive some restitution.
> 
> In reading the NY Attorney General summary of the settlement, it does sound like they banned the sponsor from the industry and received $6.5M for the owners.
> https://ag.ny.gov/press-release/ag-...ettlement-midtown-manhattan-timeshare-scammed
> ...



The accusation in the settlement was that TMC Management Group was renting out units to the general public so that owners had no availability to book their weeks.  I don't know the details of what they were doing but since all the units were not sold and all the maintenance fees were not collected they did have the right to rent out some weeks.  Since The Manhattan club is a Floating Week System perhaps the question is which weeks are they renting out?  While I am not an owner there I do own HGVC weeks.  When I am booking my timeshare weeks in Honolulu during peak season there are very few weeks available and at times none for a particular period.  I always wonder if the resort is renting out weeks on Hilton.com that I would like to book.  I believe that the winter period after the Holidays are low desirability times in NYC.  Owners perhaps don't want to rent those weeks.  However, TMC Management also might have a hard time renting those out also, so they rent out more desirable times.  Then there are more owners chasing after the desirable weeks than there are weeks available.


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## VacationForever (Dec 25, 2018)

Tamaradarann said:


> I posted above that there should be a law that the resort association, developer, or sales team must take back a timeshare unit for $0 so that the owner who no longer wants the unit doesn't have to keep paying maintenance.  While I still believe that is true in many cases and will help rid us of the pay upfront scams to get rid of your timeshare maintenance bills, that law won't help TMC owners since the TMC is offering $100 to take back the unit.
> 
> However, Bluegreen, the new owner of TMC,  offering $100 to take back the units could be the initiation of another scam!!  Buying back units that initially cost $20K-80K to buy years ago for $100 is a good deal for Bluegreen.  They can then turn around and sell the units for at least $20K-80K.  Nice PROFIT.
> Also, I don't know why the maintenance fees got so high at TMC, however, if Bluegreen can successfully turn ownership numbers around perhaps they will be able to 1/2 the maintenance fees and make TMC viable again.


Unfortunately, buying from the developer is usually overpriced.  Most timeshare are given away for free in the resale market.  Most of us on TUG bought our first timeshare from the developer.  My first purchase from the developer 20+ years ago is now worth $0.  One day when I want to get rid of the MF obligation, I hope the developer is willing to take back from me and resell at a huge profit.


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## Tamaradarann (Dec 26, 2018)

VacationForever said:


> Unfortunately, buying from the developer is usually overpriced.  Most timeshare are given away for free in the resale market.  Most of us on TUG bought our first timeshare from the developer.  My first purchase from the developer 20+ years ago is now worth $0.  One day when I want to get rid of the MF obligation, I hope the developer is willing to take back from me and resell at a huge profit.



That is the point of my saying that there should be a law that the developer must take back the timeshare for $0 so that you don't have the MF obligation.  I totally agree that being from the developer is overprices and buying resale is the way to go.  However, the perpetual MF obligation is there whether you buy from the developer or resale.


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## chefcristo (Dec 28, 2018)

is anyone here on the tug forum an owner, as i am, in THE MANHATTAN (FRAUD) CLUB IN NYC?


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## escanoe (Dec 29, 2018)

chefcristo said:


> is anyone here on the tug forum an owner, as i am, in THE MANHATTAN (FRAUD) CLUB IN NYC?


Fortunately, I am not. I am staying there with my family Memorial Day weekend through an RCI exchange. After I checked out the maintenance fees for owners, I will not complain about the daily fee. I sure hope it gets better Under Bluegreen for unfortunate souls that have been put through the wringer with ownership.

If I run into any owners while there, I will tell them about TUG.


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## chefcristo (Dec 29, 2018)

escanoe said:


> Fortunately, I am not. I am staying there with my family Memorial Day weekend through an RCI exchange. After I checked out the maintenance fees for owners, I will not complain about the daily fee. I sure hope it gets better Under Bluegreen for unfortunate souls that have been put through the wringer with ownership.
> 
> If I run into any owners while there, I will tell them about TUG.




.........a friend in need!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  thanks.  tell as many as you can.  seeing this on TUG might be an avenue to get further suggestions on combatting owners'   issues with TMC.  there is an attorney that is preparing a case, but TMC will not give a list of owners with email addresses.  without that, we're somewhat at a stalemate.  thanks again.

happy new year.

chefcristo

ps:  hope you  got the 1 bedroom/2 bath suite.  with all the unfortunate issues we have with TMC,  i would be remiss not to tell you that it's a physically wonderful place to stay.  you're so close to so many desirable nyc places to visit, most, practically within walking distance. have fun!!!


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## Tamaradarann (Dec 30, 2018)

chefcristo said:


> .........a friend in need!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  thanks.  tell as many as you can.  seeing this on TUG might be an avenue to get further suggestions on combatting owners'   issues with TMC.  there is an attorney that is preparing a case, but TMC will not give a list of owners with email addresses.  without that, we're somewhat at a stalemate.  thanks again.
> 
> happy new year.
> 
> ...



I brought up the high maintenance fee issue since it seemed like one which was a far out example of how high maintenance fees can get.   While I think that it is great that an attorney is preparing a case, I still would like to learn more about how TMC got into this situation.  Where was the Board of Directors?  Is the Board of Directors incompetent or corrupt?  Do you get a breakdown of the costs that make up the maintenance fees with the operations costs, taxes, and reserve fee broken down?  I own HGVC at South Beach which is a very small city property with is relatively high maintenance for a 1 BR in the HGVC system.  For 2019 my operating Fee is $768.62, taxes are $89.47, reserve fee $201.69 totaling $1059.78.  Perhaps someone who owns at the West 57 St. HGVC property which would be a comparable location to TMC could provide their numbers.


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## chefcristo (Dec 30, 2018)

Tamaradarann said:


> I brought up the high maintenance fee issue since it seemed like one which was a far out example of how high maintenance fees can get.   While I think that it is great that an attorney is preparing a case, I still would like to learn more about how TMC got into this situation.  Where was the Board of Directors?  Is the Board of Directors incompetent or corrupt?  Do you get a breakdown of the costs that make up the maintenance fees with the operations costs, taxes, and reserve fee broken down?  I own HGVC at South Beach which is a very small city property with is relatively high maintenance for a 1 BR in the HGVC system.  For 2019 my operating Fee is $768.62, taxes are $89.47, reserve fee $201.69 totaling $1059.78.  Perhaps someone who owns at the West 57 St. HGVC property which would be a comparable location to TMC could provide their numbers.


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## escanoe (Dec 30, 2018)

chefcristo said:


> ps:  hope you  got the 1 bedroom/2 bath suite.  with all the unfortunate issues we have with TMC,  i would be remiss not to tell you that it's a physically wonderful place to stay.  you're so close to so many desirable nyc places to visit, most, practically within walking distance. have fun!!!



My RCI portal lists two types of 1 bedrooms. Ones that sleep two people and ones that sleep four people. I have one for four people. Thanks for sharing info about the property.


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## chefcristo (Dec 30, 2018)

TMC maintenance fee per week for a 1 bedroom suite owned is approaching $3,500,  representing nearly a 500% raise since my purchase 7 years ago.  the salesperson told me that there would be "slight raises" in maintenance fees "from time-to-time."  needless to say, the sales staff was well-trained in deception and scamming by ian bruce eichner, developer and owner of TMC.  you mention the BOARD OF DIRECTORS:  this fraudulent body was made up of (not positive of the actual count)  three non-voting shareowners (us), and, i believe 4-5 from the TMC management team (them).  the non-voting members were contacted by owners via email several times.  their collective responses were something like .......our hands our tied since we have no active voice on the board.....

the two issues described above, plus other of TMC's criminally fraudulent activities against us owners were addressed in litigation brought against TMC by the former new york state  attorney general, eric schneiderman (after his undercover agents sat in on and recorded three separate sales presentations containing fraud)

schneiderman won the case.  it's important to say here, that there are more than 14,000 shareowners in TMC.  now for the "kicker":   schneiderman's "win" was a fine of $6.5M, including prohibiting ian bruce eichner from further activities in new york timeshare operations.  do  the math:  $6.5m divided by more than 14,000+ owners, distributed over 3 years:  in a word, owners still remain totally screwed.  eichner still has his dirty hands in TMC's operation until bluegreen takes over.  maintenance fees are not likely to be reduced and many owners are still not able to get desirable reservation time due to eichner's fraudulent overselling of shares and renting to non-TMC owners at substantially reduced rates in comparison to other similar nyc accommodations.

forgive the long-windedness but that's the PARTIAL story.

it is essential that state and national timeshare regulation and legislation be established quickly.  this will most likely not happen.  i suspect pockets are being lined.  and yes, i did contact my ny senators, schumer and gillibrand twice about the TMC issue,  and to date, no response from either one.

although there are some satisfied timeshare owners in other geographical areas, many are similarly dissatisfied as i am.  the fraud in the timeshare industry is universal and rampant.  takeovers of timeshare companies happen regularly.  any timeshare owner can fall victim to fraud.  regarding the regulation/legislation of the timeshare industry, it will benefit all timeshare owners universally. 

happy new year!!

chefcristo


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## Tamaradarann (Dec 30, 2018)

chefcristo said:


> TMC maintenance fee per week for a 1 bedroom suite owned is approaching $3,500,  representing nearly a 500% raise since my purchase 7 years ago.  the salesperson told me that there would be "slight raises" in maintenance fees "from time-to-time."  needless to say, the sales staff was well-trained in deception and scamming by ian bruce eichner, developer and owner of TMC.  you mention the BOARD OF DIRECTORS:  this fraudulent body was made up of (not positive of the actual count)  three non-voting shareowners (us), and, i believe 4-5 from the TMC management team (them).  the non-voting members were contacted by owners via email several times.  their collective responses were something like .......our hands our tied since we have no active voice on the board.....
> 
> the two issues described above, plus other of TMC's criminally fraudulent activities against us owners were addressed in litigation brought against TMC by the former new york state  attorney general, eric schneiderman (after his undercover agents sat in on and recorded three separate sales presentations containing fraud)
> 
> ...



I am not trying to defend the timeshare sales people, but most if not all usually give either false or misleading information to make their product look better to make a sale.  This is not unique to TMC.  Also, the timeshare sales people most probably had no inkling that the maintenance fees we're going to go up 500%.  

However, the Composition of the Board of Directors is unusual and having the owners on the Board  as non-voting members was ridiculous.  If there were 4-5 Corporate members on the Board and 3 voting owner members on the board the results probably would have been the same.  The Composition of the Board of Directors was certainly criminal not civil in nature.  I know that some HGVC resorts have 1 Corporate Member on the Board with 5 or 6 voting owner members.  

As I suspected the problems with TMC is the Board of Directors.  Until and Unless that problem gets solved with people on the Board who are interested in doing the best it can for Owners, not the Developer,  the problems will continue.  Hopefully, the fraudulent decisions that the Board of Directors made resulted in instantaneous one time expenditures and not bond or contactually related decisions that could result in expenditures for 30 years or more.


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## Tamaradarann (Dec 30, 2018)

chefcristo said:


> TMC maintenance fee per week for a 1 bedroom suite owned is approaching $3,500,  representing nearly a 500% raise since my purchase 7 years ago.  the salesperson told me that there would be "slight raises" in maintenance fees "from time-to-time."  needless to say, the sales staff was well-trained in deception and scamming by ian bruce eichner, developer and owner of TMC.  you mention the BOARD OF DIRECTORS:  this fraudulent body was made up of (not positive of the actual count)  three non-voting shareowners (us), and, i believe 4-5 from the TMC management team (them).  the non-voting members were contacted by owners via email several times.  their collective responses were something like .......our hands our tied since we have no active voice on the board.....
> 
> the two issues described above, plus other of TMC's criminally fraudulent activities against us owners were addressed in litigation brought against TMC by the former new york state  attorney general, eric schneiderman (after his undercover agents sat in on and recorded three separate sales presentations containing fraud)
> 
> ...


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## Tamaradarann (Dec 30, 2018)

I was so overwhelmed by the Composition of the Board of Directors that I forgot to ask if you have any inkling on what items in the Operating or Reserve budget made the maintenance fee go up so much.  If you have the details of the operating and reserve fees for the first year you paid them to compare with the current year that would be edifying to all of us as well as perhaps useful to the attorney that is preparing the case.


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## chefcristo (Dec 30, 2018)

Tamaradarann said:


> I was so overwhelmed by the Composition of the Board of Directors that I forgot to ask if you have any inkling on what items in the Operating or Reserve budget made the maintenance fee go up so much.  If you have the details of the operating and reserve fees for the first year you paid them to compare with the current year that would be edifying to all of us as well as perhaps useful to the attorney that is preparing the case.



comprehending a financial report is not one of my fortes; however, there are many other owners who know how to scrutinize these numerical documents, and we had the former nysag, schneiderman, delve into these issues and came up with the "SETTLEMENT" that i previously wrote about.  NOTHING was done (or apparently checked) concerning the TMC financial reports.  my thoughtful opinion is that they were falsely prepared in favor of TMC, which doesn't surprise me.  there is currently an attorney preparing a case vs TMC in behalf of owners  (who paid an upfront fee) but how and when he'll bring formal charges is still a mystery.  one of the issues holding up the legal process is the number of owners who are not aware of this criminal situation.  they're from all over the developed world and are not aware of other forums like yahoo and redweek containing TMC'S criminal activities, e.g., defrauding over 14,000 people. 

 at a december 12, 2018 legal hearing, the attorney in question, along with  a former TMC non-voting board member,  was told by the presiding judge to confer with the current TMC board of directors,  to get access to all owners' names with their contact information in order to notify them of the possible case to be brought against TMC, and the reasons for such pending action.  to date, there has been no news put forth regarding this meeting.  i doubt that TMC will cooperate in this request for owners' contact information since this will (in my opinion) lead to their ultimate legal demise.

it's next to impossible to predict how we owners proceed from here.

thanks so much.  your comments and helpful and appreciated.  please stay in touch.

happy new year!

chefcristo


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## Tamaradarann (Dec 30, 2018)

chefcristo said:


> comprehending a financial report is not one of my fortes; however, there are many other owners who know how to scrutinize these numerical documents, and we had the former nysag, schneiderman, delve into these issues and came up with the "SETTLEMENT" that i previously wrote about.  NOTHING was done (or apparently checked) concerning the TMC financial reports.  my thoughtful opinion is that they were falsely prepared in favor of TMC, which doesn't surprise me.  there is currently an attorney preparing a case vs TMC in behalf of owners  (who paid an upfront fee) but how and when he'll bring formal charges is still a mystery.  one of the issues holding up the legal process is the number of owners who are not aware of this criminal situation.  they're from all over the developed world and are not aware of other forums like yahoo and redweek containing TMC'S criminal activities, e.g., defrauding over 14,000 people.
> 
> at a december 12, 2018 legal hearing, the attorney in question, along with  a former TMC non-voting board member,  was told by the presiding judge to confer with the current TMC board of directors,  to get access to all owners' names with their contact information in order to notify them of the possible case to be brought against TMC, and the reasons for such pending action.  to date, there has been no news put forth regarding this meeting.  i doubt that TMC will cooperate in this request for owners' contact information since this will (in my opinion) lead to their ultimate legal demise.
> 
> ...



Keep in mind that the attorney working on this for the owners certainly can bring another law suit which may bring additional compensation to the owners; the attorney can't bring charges.  I don't know if another law suit would deal with the issue of lowering the maintenance fee for the future.  I believe that a new board that truly represents the owners would be the ones that could do that.

Furthermore, while I don't know if any laws were broken by having a Board that represents the interest of the developer and not the owners or that passing budgets that benefits the developer and not the owner.  However, that is where the Attorney General's office needs to be gotten involved, not to get a monetary settlement like they did,  but to bring chargers of fraud or illegal business practices if they find that appropriate for the developer's actions.


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## chefcristo (Dec 30, 2018)

Tamaradarann said:


> Keep in mind that the attorney working on this for the owners certainly can bring another law suit which may bring additional compensation to the owners; the attorney can't bring charges.  I don't know if another law suit would deal with the issue of lowering the maintenance fee for the future.  I believe that a new board that truly represents the owners would be the ones that could do that.
> 
> Furthermore, while I don't know if any laws were broken by having a Board that represents the interest of the developer and not the owners or that passing budgets that benefits the developer and not the owner.  However, that is where the Attorney General's office needs to be gotten involved, not to get a monetary settlement like they did,  but to bring chargers of fraud or illegal business practices if they find that appropriate for the developer's actions.




tamaradarann.

you are SO right:....."that is where the Attorney General's office needs to be gotten involved, not to get a monetary settlement like they did, but to bring chargers of fraud or illegal business practices if they find that appropriate for the developer's actions." 

the former nysag, eric schneiderman had direct evidence and proof of criminal fraud from the investigations of his undercover agents.  under cover. they attended and recorded sales presentations where it was determined that the sales dept lied, misled,  shammed and lured purchasers to buy knowing very well what financial misery the future would bring for many of the buyers.  the end result was the sham and nonsensical SETTLEMENT that schneiderman accepted.  the bottom line seemed to be "i won my case for new york state, and screw the TMC shareowners.".....not schneiderman's quote, but his apparent bottom line.

as i said previously, another private suit is pending awaiting the possible release of TMC's owners' contact information, very unlikely, since that list would help the attorney getting support of many other domestic and foreign TMC purchasers.  this would almost surely result in 
the attorney's winning his case possibly offering shareowners retribution and  punishing the fraudulent and illegal actions of TMC PRINCIPALS with jail time similar to ponzi schemers


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## Pathways (Dec 30, 2018)

The association must bring in enough cash to run the resort. That cash must come from the 'paying' owners.  When a huge % of owners have packed it in, the others must pay, therefore the huge increases.

Bluegreen ownership will eventually bring the fees down, but only as they sell the units to new owners.  And that will be a slow process, with any reduction in maintenance fees occurring in arrears. In fact, the high fees will be a detriment to Bluegreen sales.  One has to wonder if they will try to form a new association for the weeks they own and thereby be able to charge less, or whether they will throw some cash into the association and subsidize it until their sales get going. 

Settlement money is only a dream.  Getting control of the Club has to be the real goal.


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## Tamaradarann (Dec 31, 2018)

Pathways said:


> The association must bring in enough cash to run the resort. That cash must come from the 'paying' owners.  When a huge % of owners have packed it in, the others must pay, therefore the huge increases.
> 
> Bluegreen ownership will eventually bring the fees down, but only as they sell the units to new owners.  And that will be a slow process, with any reduction in maintenance fees occurring in arrears. In fact, the high fees will be a detriment to Bluegreen sales.  One has to wonder if they will try to form a new association for the weeks they own and thereby be able to charge less, or whether they will throw some cash into the association and subsidize it until their sales get going.
> 
> Settlement money is only a dream.  Getting control of the Club has to be the real goal.



I totally agree that getting control of the Club, the Association is the key.  However, the issue that you brought up about owners packing it in is another factor.  Why would so many owners pack it in, it is certainly a desirable location in NYC?  High Maintenance!   The Developer has been renting units for a considerable amount of cash, where is that money going?  If the developer has units that are NOT owned by owners or owners are NOT paying their maintenance, then the money they receive in rent should be going to help pay the operation of the timeshare.  If it is not then and the developer is keeping that money then that's where the fraud comes in and why the maintenance double what it should be.  In simple numbers if the operation of the timeshare with full ownership would result in $1500/year maintenance but only 1/2 the units are owned by maintenance paying owners, then the maintenance needs to be $3000/year to operate the timeshare.  However, if they are renting the units at $300/night, which is a bargain in NYC, there is plenty of money to make up for the maintenance deficit.


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## Pathways (Dec 31, 2018)

Tamaradarann said:


> Why would so many owners pack it in, it is certainly a desirable location in NYC? High Maintenance!



While I have no insider knowledge, I did seriously consider a resale purchase here a few years ago.  My concern at the time was not the high fees, but the ability to reserve.  I believe that is the reason most people walked. When you pay your fees you expect to be able to use your unit, and it just wasn't happening.

While the fees were on the high end, they were not totally unreasonable.  Then, as the fraud issues became public, and owners realized Eichner was renting prime rooms by the night and taking the money, more and more owners just quit paying.  Then it all just snowballed with the fees escalating and then more people just throwing their annual invoice into the trash.



Tamaradarann said:


> In simple numbers if the operation of the timeshare with full ownership would result in $1500/year maintenance but only 1/2 the units are owned by maintenance paying owners, then the maintenance needs to be $3000/year to operate the timeshare. However, if they are renting the units at $300/night, which is a bargain in NYC, there is plenty of money to make up for the maintenance deficit.



I will not argue the actual numbers, but the issue remains the association is so far upside down that without a huge infusion of cash, it will be a long, hard road to a balance sheet that allows for 'normal' fees.  I assume Bluegreen has a plan for the units they are inheriting with the purchase, but I won't hold my breath for any quick relief for current owners.


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## Panina (Dec 31, 2018)

Pathways said:


> While I have no insider knowledge, I did seriously consider a resale purchase here a few years ago.  My concern at the time was not the high fees, but the ability to reserve.  I believe that is the reason most people walked. When you pay your fees you expect to be able to use your unit, and it just wasn't happening.
> 
> While the fees were on the high end, they were not totally unreasonable.  Then, as the fraud issues became public, and owners realized Eichner was renting prime rooms by the night and taking the money, more and more owners just quit paying.  Then it all just snowballed with the fees escalating and then more people just throwing their annual invoice into the trash.
> 
> ...


Bluegreen took over management/ownership of units of Blue Ridge Village and within the year increased the mfs as they were too low for managing the property.  Hopefully with correct management they will get Manhattan Club running correctly.


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## chefcristo (Dec 31, 2018)

i agree with the following stated on TUG regarding THE MANHATTAN CLUB:
basically, most of the problems shareowners face with TMC emanate with the management (board of directors,BOD) made up of  the majority of members having voting privileges, and the 3 others,  who are also shareowners like the other 14,000+ of us, are there merely for "decoration" having  no say whatsoever regarding any facets of running OUR timeshare.  this includes the establishment of the maintenance fee amounts per week owned.  TMC's management still remains with the original developer (eicnher) and his fraudulent crew as the majority voting members. the BOD was never turned over to the shareowners.  WE have absolutely NOTHING  to say about fees, governance or reservation policies.  eichner's ability to rent our space to non-owners via travel websites, e.g., booking.com, hotels.com, et al,   makes up for any financial deficits from some shareowners not paying maintenance fees.

since there is a shareowners' attorney currently in the scenario, he rightfully is keeping his legal strategies within the scope of those who have joined his possible suit.  he is not divulging his ways and means of proceeding.  he has said that it is important for him to have a list of shareowners' contacts to make them aware of the possible suit.  i agree with that requirement, but someone on TUG commented that it's the board that needs to be court-directed to turn over the MANAGEMENT of TMC to the shareowners, which seems like a very reasonable demand to be a major part of any private lawsuit.  i pause here to add a comment/question/query:  doesn't the current nysag, barbara underwood, have the power to make this demand in court.  (i state here that i have little or no legal expertise, only common sense as do the people commenting here on TUG.)

i thank TUG and its contributors for all of the insights offered so far.  i hope others will add helpful suggestions and input to help TMC with possible fair and enforceable strategies to combat the fraud heaped upon us.  there are so many shareowners who are now in a distressful financial bind with a worthless entity that, in many cases, they can't use due to non-availability of reservation time primarily due to overselling of shares and renting to non-shareowners.

fraud (in any form) can happen to any of us.  i hope people who are not yet timeshare owners read some of the horror stories about that part of the timeshare industry that is heavily tainted with criminally fraudulent activities.  the name of the game is "caveat emptor"............LET THE BUYER BEWARE!  again the keywords are"enforceable state and national timeshare regulation and legislation."


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## jehb2 (Jan 2, 2019)

Just to add.  I've exchanged into TMC 3 times. Each time I've had absolutely no problem getting an exchange.  I also have been offered prime weeks such as Fleet Week.  Sadly owner's have a really difficult time getting a reservation.  Last time we did a sales presentation, one of the requirements for attending the tour was that "we did not know any current or former Manhattan Club owners."


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## chefcristo (Jan 2, 2019)

jehb2 said:


> Just to add.  I've exchanged into TMC 3 times. Each time I've had absolutely no problem getting an exchange.  I also have been offered prime weeks such as Fleet Week.  Sadly owner's have a really difficult time getting a reservation.  Last time we did a sales presentation, one of the requirements for attending the tour was that "we did not know any current or former Manhattan Club owners."



hi jehb2,
your response is typical:  give non-owners (prime) accommodations for the $$$, and screw the owners; they pay the maintenance fees anyway.  isn't that called double-dipping or, dare i say, criminal fraud?  your experience speaks for itself.


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## DRIless (Jan 2, 2019)

Pathways said:


> The association must bring in enough cash to run the resort. That cash must come from the 'paying' owners.  When a huge % of owners have packed it in, the others must pay, therefore the huge increases.
> 
> Bluegreen ownership will eventually bring the fees down, but only as they sell the units to new owners.  And that will be a slow process, with any reduction in maintenance fees occurring in arrears. In fact, the high fees will be a detriment to Bluegreen sales.  One has to wonder if they will try to form a new association for the weeks they own and thereby be able to charge less, or whether they will throw some cash into the association and subsidize it until their sales get going.
> 
> Settlement money is only a dream.  Getting control of the Club has to be the real goal.





My family members were Charter Members of TMC when the week could be split into three weekends F/S + F/S + F/S/Su.  Bought for about $20,000 with original MFs around $400. The combination of hard to get reservations because TMC was renting out time (maybe, probably more than they owned in unsold inventory) and the meteoric rise in MFs for the 1BR/2Ba unit caused us to sell more than 10 years ago.  Got almost .60 on the dollar and consider ourselves fortunate.  Family name is still on the bronze Charter Member plaque on the 26th floor.

I was at TMC over New Years through Royal Holiday Club.  The 26th floor lounge hallway was plastered with Bluegreen resort pictures.  Bluegreen sells points.  Yes, they're based on a deeded property.  If Bluegreen is actually selling TMC you could be buying at a BG sales center in Las Vegas, Williamsburg, or Orlando and end up with a Manhattan Club deed if you bought a big enough points package.  With Bluegreen your maintenance fee is based upon the number of points assigned to the deed and every modern Bluegreen points owner pays the same MF/point no matter where they own.

If I wanted to go to TMC again this year for New Years, there are 9 Studios and 11 1BR/2Ba units still available.  The cost of the Studio MF and extra fee/taxes for a week would be about $1800 and the 1BR about $2100 (and of course you got your RHC points for nothing on eBay.  There's no availability for 2021 at this point which either means the contract hasn't been negotiated yet or it's not going to be renewed?


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## Carol C (Jan 3, 2019)

VacationForever said:


> Unfortunately, buying from the developer is usually overpriced.  Most timeshare are given away for free in the resale market.  Most of us on TUG bought our first timeshare from the developer.  My first purchase from the developer 20+ years ago is now worth $0.  One day when I want to get rid of the MF obligation, I hope the developer is willing to take back from me and resell at a huge profit.



I think owners are pissed at the horribly inflated maintenance fee...not their purchase price. I'm sure MC owners know that buying from the resort on retail market is higher than resale. Don't add insult to injury. My heart goes out to all MC owners...and at $3000 maint fee I would let it foreclose, let Bluegreen or whoever ding my credit too. If enough people do it they could write a joint letter, try to get it published on a paid ad page in NY Times, and then give that letter to the three credit agencies for their files, to show why they stopped paying the extortion fee of $3k annually.


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## Tamaradarann (Jan 3, 2019)

chefcristo said:


> hi jehb2,
> your response is typical:  give non-owners (prime) accommodations for the $$$, and screw the owners; they pay the maintenance fees anyway.  isn't that called double-dipping or, dare i say, criminal fraud?  your experience speaks for itself.



As I said before, setting up the Board Control with Developer Representatives instead of Owner Representative was the criminal fraud!  Anything that happened after that whether it was making it harder for owners to book their weeks or book prime weeks, renting units out for cash to non owners or perspective buyers, or raising the maintenance fees to ridiculous amounts were the result of the initial fraud that the developer set up.  I don't know how the Attorney General or anyone else can solve this problem to make the owners whole but that is what should happen.  It would be great to know that as part of their purchase Bluegreen has a financial plan to make the maintenance fees next year in line what they should be for current owners as well as for the timeshare units that they will be marketing.


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## chefcristo (Jan 3, 2019)

tamaradarann,

there were very few owners who dwelled on your well-noted fact..." setting up the Board Control with Developer Representatives instead of Owner Representative was the criminal fraud!"  many other fraudulent actions could probably have been avoided if your issue was tackled by the former nysag, eric schneiderman.  instead, he pursued only the other issues as you noted, NOT TO OWNERS' BENEFIT.  i have questions about his legal methods tacticts expertise.

there was literally NO ONE ON THE BOARD WHO (EVEN THOUGH 3 NON-VOTING BOARD MEMBERS WERE OWNERS.......JUST LIKE US......) HAD THE OPPORTUNITY TO REPRESENT US DEFRAUDED OWNERS.  THEY WERE PUPPETS MANIPULATED BY IAN BRUCE EICHNER, THE DEVELOPER.  THE FOREGOING ALL-CAPS COMMENT GIVES ONE PAUSE:  those non-voting members might have been...................

for the moment, my silence prevails.

please keep in touch.  i've gotten empathy, sympathy but most of all, much food for thought concerning TMC from this TUG FORUM.  responders have been very helpful with their comments.  that's very much appreciated.

thanks again,
chefcristo (chris)




Tamaradarann said:


> As I said before, setting up the Board Control with Developer Representatives instead of Owner Representative was the criminal fraud!  Anything that happened after that whether it was making it harder for owners to book their weeks or book prime weeks, renting units out for cash to non owners or perspective buyers, or raising the maintenance fees to ridiculous amounts were the result of the initial fraud that the developer set up.  I don't know how the Attorney General or anyone else can solve this problem to make the owners whole but that is what should happen.  It would be great to know that as part of their purchase Bluegreen has a financial plan to make the maintenance fees next year in line what they should be for current owners as well as for the timeshare units that they will be marketing.


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## chefcristo (Jan 5, 2019)

whoever knows a definitive answer to this question, please respond:
is it against demands/issues of privacy for a timeshare not to release contact information  (only email addresses) of all of its shareowners?


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## VacationForever (Jan 5, 2019)

chefcristo said:


> whoever knows a definitive answer to this question, please respond:
> is it against demands/issues of privacy for a timeshare not to release contact information  (only email addresses) of all of its shareowners?



It is against privacy laws, otherwise anyone could spam others directly.  However, in a class action lawsuit, where approved by the court, the attorney has access to all contact information.


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## chefcristo (Jan 5, 2019)

VacationForever said:


> It is against privacy laws, otherwise anyone could spam others directly.  However, in a class action lawsuit, where approved by the court, the attorney has access to all contact information.



thanks very much for your response.  that's a workable, concrete and reasonable answer.  i will relay your comment to those working on a possible lawsuit.  

thanks again,
chris


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## Maple_Leaf (Feb 11, 2019)

DRIless said:


> There's no availability for 2021 at this point which either means the contract hasn't been negotiated yet or it's not going to be renewed?


If unsold developer inventory was being used to support the Royal Holiday Club availability I would think that inventory is no longer available for 2021 because Bluegreen is planning to sell it as points.


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## jjlovecub (Feb 12, 2019)

The MF are beyond crazy. It’s over $400 per night. I can get just about any hilton or Marriott in Times Square for less than that. I reluctantly paid it again this year as it’s my responsibility and I want to go blah blah blah. Wish something could be done but it isn’t likely.


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## escanoe (Feb 12, 2019)

jjlovecub said:


> The MF are beyond crazy. It’s over $400 per night. I can get just about any hilton or Marriott in Times Square for less than that. I reluctantly paid it again this year as it’s my responsibility and I want to go blah blah blah. Wish something could be done but it isn’t likely.



It seems like Bluegreen would provide owners some kind of communication concerning what their intentions are for stabilizing/dealing with the situation. One would think if they were taking actions to stabilize things, it would be in their interest to communicate the strategy to give owners a little more comfort and less incentive to default.


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## chefcristo (Feb 12, 2019)

no one at TMC and/or BLUEGREEN has contributed ANYTHING  SUBSTANTIAL concerning ANYTHING about the currently tenuous continuity of TMC.  owners are in the darkest environment ever about our collective TMC futures.  we know nothing because the TMC board of directors has not told us anything near-concrete about their or our next steps to be taken.

 owners' frustrations will lead to collective or individual lawsuits.  the possibility of new involvement of the new NYSAG, barbara underwood,  could conceivably be sought.  she would be asked to pick up the broken pieces of the former NYSAG, eric schneiderman's inept litigation using what he uncovered concerning CRIMINAL fraud, lies and purposely misleading statements initiated by ian bruce eichner (TMC's developer and board member.)   although there was admission of fraud,  schneiderman's legal outcome in litigating his case against eichner, was a fine and prohibition of eichner doing business in the timeshare industry, as issued by the court.  a substantial number of owners who followed schneiderman vs TMC/eicher's law case were dissatisfied (no wonder) with the accepted outcome.  owners are literally giving away (when possible) the share (s) they so unwittingly paid for (somewhere between $20-80,000 according to the accommodations purchased) to relieve themselves of the of the unaffordable maintenance payments ($35-4,000) and lack of ability to get reservations.  if ever there was a miscarriage of justice, this situation is a good example, which could have been avoided with better-prepared legislative prowess which
appears not have been demonstrated by schneiderman.

these comments, of course, do not relieve any owners of the dismay, financial distress, and various fraudulent issues.  perhaps some of us owners will take the "bull by the horns" and show a great deal more proactivity rather than continue being trampled upon by the unscrupulous TMC demons (hardly said to be dramatic!) and do little or nothing.  in some owners' defense, they have connected with an attorney (perhaps of unproven capabilities concerning a suit against timeshare fraud).  i will consider making that move after more careful scrutiny of the wisdom of doing so.


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## bogey21 (Feb 13, 2019)

I've owned a lot of TimeShare Weeks over the years.  The best deal I ever made was deciding not to buy a Manhattan Club Week.  It was way back when they first started up.  I was walking down 56th Street, saw the MC and walked in seeking information.  I was impressed.  Two things stopped me from buying, the cost and because I was in a hurry to get to a business appointment.  To this day I continue thank my lucky stars!!!

George


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## chefcristo (Feb 13, 2019)

bogey21 said:


> I've owned a lot of TimeShare Weeks over the years.  The best deal I ever made was deciding not to buy a Manhattan Club Week.  It was way back when they first started up.  I was walking down 56th Street, saw the MC and walked in seeking information.  I was impressed.  Two things stopped me from buying, the cost and because I was in a hurry to get to a business appointment.  To this day I continue thank my lucky stars!!!
> 
> George


hi george,
"The best deal I ever made was deciding not to buy a Manhattan Club Week." (your quote)
yes, the "force" or whatever good entity,  was certainly with you.  i will say, AND NOT IN DEFENSE OF TMC, that i enjoyed the time i was able to spend there.  in a word, the location is perfect and the accommodations are usually very comfortable, and the staff is personable and helpful;  IF ONLY MANAGEMENT COULD TAKE UP RESIDENCE ON RIKERS ISLAND JUST OFF MANHATTAN ISLAND..............WHERE THEY BELONG!

chris


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## chefcristo (Feb 14, 2019)

chefcristo said:


> no one at TMC and/or BLUEGREEN has contributed ANYTHING  SUBSTANTIAL concerning ANYTHING about the currently tenuous continuity of TMC.  owners are in the darkest environment ever about our collective TMC futures.  we know nothing because the TMC board of directors has not told us anything near-concrete about their or our next steps to be taken.
> 
> owners' frustrations will lead to collective or individual lawsuits.  the possibility of new involvement of the new NYSAG, barbara underwood,  could conceivably be sought.  she would be asked to pick up the broken pieces of the former NYSAG, eric schneiderman's inept litigation using what he uncovered concerning CRIMINAL fraud, lies and purposely misleading statements initiated by ian bruce eichner (TMC's developer and board member.)   although there was admission of fraud,  schneiderman's legal outcome in litigating his case against eichner, was a fine and prohibition of eichner doing business in the timeshare industry, as issued by the court.  a substantial number of owners who followed schneiderman vs TMC/eicher's law case were dissatisfied (no wonder) with the accepted outcome.  owners are literally giving away (when possible) the share (s) they so unwittingly paid for (somewhere between $20-80,000 according to the accommodations purchased) to relieve themselves of the of the unaffordable maintenance payments ($35-4,000) and lack of ability to get reservations.  if ever there was a miscarriage of justice, this situation is a good example, which could have been avoided with better-prepared legislative prowess which
> appears not have been demonstrated by schneiderman.
> ...



MY ERROR:

THE NEW NYSAG IS LETITIA JAMES.  (barbara underwood was ACTING nysag until ms james was installed.)  

chris


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## BlackCat5 (Jul 7, 2019)

chefcristo said:


> is anyone here on the tug forum an owner, as i am, in THE MANHATTAN (FRAUD) CLUB IN NYC?



Hello Chefcristo! I am a TMC owner and new to TUG. I also just found out about all the problems with TMC recently as I started to look into selling our unit. We bought a Metropolitan Suite about 6 or 7 years ago. Ours is 7 days spread out over 3 years. We live on Long Island so it seemed like a good, quick, easy, yearly getaway at the time we bought.  We are going in a few weeks and plan to meet with someone from Financial Services while we are there if time permits. We’ve never had difficulty booking a room, our rooms have always been very clean, beautiful (the newly renovated suites I assume), and we have even been given free upgrades several years, including one year when they bumped us up to a penthouse suite. We really love going there, but our maintenance fees are increasing faster than the value of the room at this point. I realize there is a lawyer who is taking $1250 as a retainer to help owners who want to get together and sue, but I’m not sure if that’s our best option right now. I’m not sure how to resolve this, and we definitely feel like we’re part of this scam. Do you have any idea or research on this new group that owns? I doubt our maintenance fees will ever decrease, I'd be willing to keep it if they just remained the same forever... (lol, I know highly unlikely) Please let me know if you’re still dealing with this. Thanks!


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## chefcristo (Jul 7, 2019)

BlackCat5 said:


> Hello Chefcristo! I am a TMC owner and new to TUG. I also just found out about all the problems with TMC recently as I started to look into selling our unit. We bought a Metropolitan Suite about 6 or 7 years ago. Ours is 7 days spread out over 3 years. We live on Long Island so it seemed like a good, quick, easy, yearly getaway at the time we bought.  We are going in a few weeks and plan to meet with someone from Financial Services while we are there if time permits. We’ve never had difficulty booking a room, our rooms have always been very clean, beautiful (the newly renovated suites I assume), and we have even been given free upgrades several years, including one year when they bumped us up to a penthouse suite. We really love going there, but our maintenance fees are increasing faster than the value of the room at this point. I realize there is a lawyer who is taking $1250 as a retainer to help owners who want to get together and sue, but I’m not sure if that’s our best option right now. I’m not sure how to resolve this, and we definitely feel like we’re part of this scam. Do you have any idea or research on this new group that owns? I doubt our maintenance fees will ever decrease, I'd be willing to keep it if they just remained the same forever... (lol, I know highly unlikely) Please let me know if you’re still dealing with this. Thanks!


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## rrsafety (Jul 15, 2019)

BlackCat5 said:


> Hello Chefcristo! I am a TMC owner and new to TUG. I also just found out about all the problems with TMC recently as I started to look into selling our unit. We bought a Metropolitan Suite about 6 or 7 years ago. Ours is 7 days spread out over 3 years. We live on Long Island so it seemed like a good, quick, easy, yearly getaway at the time we bought.  We are going in a few weeks and plan to meet with someone from Financial Services while we are there if time permits. We’ve never had difficulty booking a room, our rooms have always been very clean, beautiful (the newly renovated suites I assume), and we have even been given free upgrades several years, including one year when they bumped us up to a penthouse suite. We really love going there, but our maintenance fees are increasing faster than the value of the room at this point. I realize there is a lawyer who is taking $1250 as a retainer to help owners who want to get together and sue, but I’m not sure if that’s our best option right now. I’m not sure how to resolve this, and we definitely feel like we’re part of this scam. Do you have any idea or research on this new group that owns? I doubt our maintenance fees will ever decrease, I'd be willing to keep it if they just remained the same forever... (lol, I know highly unlikely) Please let me know if you’re still dealing with this. Thanks!


Any idea why you had an easy time booking while others claim it is “impossible“?


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## chapjim (Jul 16, 2019)

FWIW, there's a TMC listing on ebay for a 2BR unit.  Maintenance fee is not in the listing but I asked.  It is $3,700/year.


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## BlackCat5 (Jul 17, 2019)

rrsafety said:


> Any idea why you had an easy time booking while others claim it is “impossible“?


We tend to plan early. When we bought they told us to book as early as we could because they go fast. So we probably call it in 4-5 months in advance, if possible. We also usually go during the week in the summer. We have gone in other times of the year, and had no problems booking.


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## TheTimeTraveler (Jul 17, 2019)

From what I can read here it is a great property to trade into, but a horrible property to actually own due to the huge maintenance fees.

Any update at to what the Bluegreen are up to for dealing with the property and their issues ?






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