# How long do I have to file a Disclaimer of Interest in MA & not listed in trust ?



## qwazyx (Mar 6, 2015)

My parents passed away closely together recently.  In the confusion, we never looked into transferring the Marriott Vacation Club timeshare into the trust.  So, I have a few of questions.

If it is not listed in the trust (everything else was, so we did not go through probate), do we inherit it?

If we never go through probate, does this not belong to us (ideal!)?

If we DO inherit it, how long do we have in MA to file a Disclaimer of Interest?  I saw that most website say usually 9 months, but did not know what criteria determined that.

Also, we paid the annual dues, not knowing we could refuse the inheritance.  Could we get that back if we did refuse?  Does that negate our ability to refuse?


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## DeniseM (Mar 6, 2015)

I can't answer your other questions, but the estate is obligated to pay the _current_ maintenance fee, whether or not the heirs intend to accept the inheritance.  [Since the estate is responsible for_ current _maintenance fees, Marriott has no obligation to refund the maintenance fee, nor do I believe that they will.]

Is the timeshare still deeded in your parent's name, or has the deed been  transferred to an heir?

Depending on the resort, the timeshare may have resale value, and you many want to sell it, instead of refusing the inheritance.


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## qwazyx (Mar 6, 2015)

Thank you for your information!  The entire estate was in a trust, except for this.  So would the estate still be obligated?

The deed is still in their name.  Since it was not in the trust and we are not going to go through probate (in FL, they require an atty AND it's like $350.00 just to file).

The sad thing is that my sister has one too and they just got an offer with the company that sells them and, with the sellers paying closing costs, my sister will get $1.00.  Yes, I typed that right.  100 pennies.  So, I'd rather NOT pay the maintenance fee!!!

Thanks again!


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## DeniseM (Mar 6, 2015)

I'm not attorney, but the estate is responsible for the _current_ maintenance fee - they aren't going to reimburse you for the fees you have already paid.

MOST timeshares resale for 0-10% of the original retail price.  However, the top Marriotts sell for more, and that's why I brought that up.


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## vacationhopeful (Mar 6, 2015)

If you know the resort name and the SEASON (like Platinum or Gold or Silver)...other Marriott owners can give you an idea as to its worth. And there are Marriott brokers, who will take a commission (fee) to sell it. The estate could turn it into cash (even a dollar) and pay the probate fees as required.

Most Marriot resorts have Right of First Refusal .... it is good to know and at what point (based on season of ownership) ... selling it MIGHT pay the fees for the "probate" issue.

Do a little more leg work here ... at least Tuggers are FREE (and the advice given MIGHT be worth what you paid here, too).


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## sparty (Mar 6, 2015)

Not a lawyer but I think what you're describing should work.  Have you called Marriott and spoke to them? I definitely would call and see if they will have a discussion on options, they may not want to to talk at all, don't know, but worth trying.

If you're going down the disclaimer of interest route the most important point is treat the timeshare as a third-rail, don't touch it in any way, shape, or form (don't use any benefit/stay/points/etc. in any way) or you will forfeit your right to disclaim.


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## Bill4728 (Mar 6, 2015)

From the OP tag thier parents seem to own  the Custom House, Boston.

Personally I do not know what it is worth but I'd guess it does have value.


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## JIMinNC (Mar 6, 2015)

Bill4728 said:


> From the OP tag thier parents seem to own  the Custom House, Boston.
> 
> Personally I do not know what it is worth but I'd guess it does have value.



Seth Nock's site has a 1BR Platinum Custom House listed for $1,000 so that gives an idea of value.


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## DeniseM (Mar 6, 2015)

$1000 probably just covers his commission - on eBay you'd get $1.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## csxjohn (Mar 6, 2015)

You really need to talk to an attorney in your state who is familiar with such things.  It's easy for someone to say that the estate must pay any fees that come due but if there is nothing in the estate to pay them with it can't happen.

You may or may not be in line to inherit this, The laws of every state are different so your original question probably won't get answered here with any degree of accuracy.


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## Beaglemom3 (Mar 6, 2015)

csxjohn said:


> You really need to talk to an attorney in your state who is familiar with such things.  It's easy for someone to say that the estate must pay any fees that come due but if there is nothing in the estate to pay them with it can't happen.
> 
> You may or may not be in line to inherit this, The laws of every state are different so your original question probably won't get answered here with any degree of accuracy.



  Agree. 

    I'm not clear. Were your parents in Florida or Massachusetts ?

  Talk to an attorney now and avoid a possible/probable costlier situation down the road. There may be a consultation fee. Find out the fee structure before you get in too deep.


  I can recommend a good timeshare attorney in Massachusetts. Please PM me if you'd like.

  There are many good estate attorneys in Mass., but not many who understand timeshares. 


=


-


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## DeniseM (Mar 6, 2015)

csxjohn said:


> You really need to talk to an attorney in your state who is familiar with such things.  It's easy for someone to say that the estate must pay any fees that come due but if there is nothing in the estate to pay them with it can't happen.



The OP said that they *already paid the current maintenance fee* and are wondering if Marriott would refund it to them.


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## Conan (Mar 7, 2015)

The Massachusetts disclaimer statute requires the beneficiary to act within 9 months of death.
https://malegislature.gov/Laws/GeneralLaws/PartII/TitleII/Chapter190B/ArticleII/Section2-801

But I think you're asking the wrong question. The disclaimer statute exists as a way for people to make post-death estate planning choices that the decedent failed to make appropriately while alive. It allows the property to pass directly to the next person in line to inherit, as if the person making the disclaimer had predeceased the decedent. So in a qualified disclaimer everybody who stands to inherit has to disclaim. For example, under the intestate statute, if there's a surviving spouse she has to disclaim, but then the children, grandchildren, decedent's surviving siblings, etc. also have to disclaim or the property passes to the last person in line who doesn't disclaim.  

You want to abandon the property, not disclaim it. Here's the abandonment statute:
Section 3-715. [Transactions Authorized for Personal Representatives;  Exceptions.]  
  (a) Except as restricted or otherwise provided by the will or by an  order in a formal proceeding... a personal representative ... acting reasonably for the benefit of the interested  persons, may properly:  
....
(11) abandon property when, in the opinion of the personal  representative, it is valueless, or is so encumbered, or is in condition  that it is of no benefit to the estate....
https://malegislature.gov/Laws/GeneralLaws/PartII/TitleII/Chapter190B/ArticleIII/Section3-715

So if there's a will, the personal representative (executor) should notify Marriott that they're abandoning the property. If there's no will, the nearest relative should do that. In theory there's supposed to be a probate court process to get the personal representative/administrator appointed, but I wouldn't go to that trouble unless Marriott insisted on seeing further documentation of their right to act. And there's no particular requirement to act within 9 months, but sooner is better.


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## csxjohn (Mar 7, 2015)

DeniseM said:


> The OP said that they *already paid the current maintenance fee* and are wondering if Marriott would refund it to them.



In post #2 you stated



> I can't answer your other questions, but the estate is obligated to pay the current maintenance fee, whether or not the heirs intend to accept the inheritance...



That's the comment I was addressing.  If this timeshare is the only item in the estate, there is nothing to pay Mfs with if they come due again before this is settled.

Something else that always comes up in these discussions it that the OP wants to make sure they do no use the TS or they will probably not be able to turn it down.

Again, the advice of an attorney is needed here.


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## DeniseM (Mar 7, 2015)

csxjohn said:


> In post #2 you stated
> 
> That's the comment I was addressing.  If this timeshare is the only item in the estate, there is nothing to pay Mfs with if they come due again before this is settled.



That wasn't the question that was asked, or answered.

The OP has already paid the _current _MF, and they asked if Marriott would refund the _current_ MF to them.  My answer was that Marriott will not refund it, because the estate is responsible for the _current_ MF.


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## tschwa2 (Mar 7, 2015)

Marriott will refund the MF if it makes a buy back offer that includes the current year's usage.  Even if the offer is $1 it might be worth it to be rid of it and be re-imbursed for the MF's.


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## DeniseM (Mar 7, 2015)

tschwa2 said:


> Marriott will refund the MF if it makes a buy back offer that includes the current year's usage.  Even if the offer is $1 it might be worth it to be rid of it and be re-imbursed for the MF's.



Agreed - But the OP asked if they would reimburse the MF, if they refused the inheritance, and that is the question that I answered.


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## dioxide45 (Mar 7, 2015)

Is the OP on the hook for the timeshare if they personally paid the MFs? Can they refuse it if they personally paid the MFs. That can probably only be answered by an attorney with knowledge of how this works.

Really, the timeshare is still in the deceased names, do they could just let Marriott foreclose when MFs don't get paid in future years. I see little hope of getting the already paid fees back. However, this is a fairly easy timeshare to sell. If it is Platinum, it perhaps has some value. If it isn't then it can likely be given away for $1.

The problem is that it likely does need to go through probate in order to transfer it to the new owner, even if they sell it back to Marriott in a buyback offer. Since it wasn't in the trust, I would suspect it has to go through probate.


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## csxjohn (Mar 7, 2015)

DeniseM said:


> I can't answer your other questions, but the estate is obligated to pay the _current_ maintenance fee, whether or not the heirs intend to accept the inheritance.
> 
> Is the timeshare still deeded in your parent's name, or has the deed been  transferred to an heir?
> 
> Depending on the resort, the timeshare may have resale value, and you many want to sell it, instead of refusing the inheritance.



I'm not sure why you're arguing about this.  Your statement is above and I put it in red.

I was addressing that statement and I stand by my comment.  If there is nothing else in an estate other than the timeshare there is nothing to pay the fees with current or otherwise.  I know it doesn't matter in this case because the current fees have bee paid but if they come due again before this is settled they will not have to be paid since there is nothing to pay them with.

I don't know when or how often fees for that resort are collected but any MFs or special assessments that come due is not anything the OP should have to worry about taking care of.

You answered a question that was not asked and I addressed your answer.


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## WBP (Mar 7, 2015)

The Attorney who handled all of Marriott's closings on Custom House, during the height of Developer Sales, was Patricia M. Trainor, Esq.

You might want to contact her office, to see if she can be helpful:

(617) 423-9016
185 Devonshire Street,Suite 400
Boston Massachusetts 02110


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## BocaBoy (Mar 8, 2015)

A key question here is what kind of a trust is this.  Most trusts of the type seemingly described here are revocable trusts, set up solely to ease the passing of assets in a simplified way.  With such a trust, the grantor can change it any time he or she wants before death, and as a result the assets are considered assets of the grantor (decedent here) for tax and estate purposes.  Only an irrevocable trust can keep the assets out of the estate, and they are not usually used because the grantor of an irrevocable trust can never change the terms of the trust.  Some assets in an estate (such as revocable trust assets) do not have to go through the formal probate process, but that does not mean they are off limits for paying estate obligations.


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## BocaBoy (Mar 8, 2015)

tschwa2 said:


> Marriott will refund the MF if it makes a buy back offer that includes the current year's usage.  Even if the offer is $1 it might be worth it to be rid of it and be re-imbursed for the MF's.



You are correct if this scenario were to occur.  However, whenever I have inquired about a possible buyback, they have been very clear that the current year's usage is not included.  This was even the case with an inquiry in the first couple months of the year.  Marriott wants to have a full year to use it for the first time after they acquire title.


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## csxjohn (Mar 9, 2015)

BocaBoy said:


> A key question here is what kind of a trust is this.  Most trusts of the type seemingly described here are revocable trusts, set up solely to ease the passing of assets in a simplified way.  With such a trust, the grantor can change it any time he or she wants before death, and as a result the assets are considered assets of the grantor (decedent here) for tax and estate purposes.  Only an irrevocable trust can keep the assets out of the estate, and they are not usually used because the grantor of an irrevocable trust can never change the terms of the trust.  Some assets in an estate (such as revocable trust assets) do not have to go through the formal probate process, but that does not mean they are off limits for paying estate obligations.



I overlooked that distinction.  Thanks for adding that insight.


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## dioxide45 (Mar 9, 2015)

Given that Custom House is RTU and not deeded ownership, does that change anything. I suspect that is why it was never in the trust of the deceased. I think the best way to handle this is to call MVCI, I am sure this scenario isn't new to them.


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## WBP (Mar 9, 2015)

dioxide45 said:


> Given that Custom House is RTU and not deeded ownership, does that change anything. I suspect that is why it was never in the trust of the deceased. I think the best way to handle this is to call MVCI, I am sure this scenario isn't new to them.



Custom House is a deeded leasehold. If an owner used a credible Closing Agent, they should have a deed that was recorded at the Suffolk County Registry of Deeds.


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## TheTimeTraveler (Mar 9, 2015)

WJS said:


> Custom House is a deeded leasehold. If an owner used a credible Closing Agent, they should have a deed that was recorded at the Suffolk County Registry of Deeds.





It may or may not be a deeded leasehold.  BUT, the bottom line is all deeds expire in the year 2057.  I can see why people refer to it as a RTU.




.


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## dioxide45 (Mar 9, 2015)

WJS said:


> Custom House is a deeded leasehold. If an owner used a credible Closing Agent, they should have a deed that was recorded at the Suffolk County Registry of Deeds.



Thanks for clarifying, I never knew what kind of ownership document was used at Custom House. They likely could convey these to the DC trust, but the problem happens in 2057 when the leasehold is up. They have sold a whole bunch of points that they don't have real estate to back any longer.


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## WBP (Mar 9, 2015)

dioxide45 said:


> Thanks for clarifying, I never knew what kind of ownership document was used at Custom House. They likely could convey these to the DC trust, but the problem happens in 2057 when the leasehold is up. They have sold a whole bunch of points that they don't have real estate to back any longer.



You are quite welcome. The presence or absence of a deed makes a huge difference in how the real estate is conveyed. I remember that Marriott Vacation Club was very diligent about disclosing the "life" of Custom House ownership. I think the informed buyers had a desire to own - - for 57+ years - - a piece of history in Custom House, despite the fact that ownership was not in perpetuity. 

Granted, at some point in time, the value of ownership will have a diminishing return. Who knows when that will be, as maintenance fees, local hotel rates for comparable accommodations, and the value of the vacations that Custom House owners enjoy, will determine the point of diminishing return.


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## qwazyx (Mar 13, 2015)

*Thank you all*

We ended up contacting Custom House and they told us that all we needed to provide was a testamentary letter showing that we are executors to transfer the deed into our name.  There seems to be some conflict as to whether or not this is a deeded property (not tangible asset, thus not covered in the trust) or a lease hold/RTU property (tangible asset in the trust).  I know that they do have a deed, but they also are only leased for use until 2057.  Also, my folks lived in FL, but had the TS in MA.


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## Conan (Mar 13, 2015)

qwazyx said:


> If we never go through probate, does this not belong to us (ideal!)?
> If we DO inherit it, how long do we have in MA to file a Disclaimer of   Interest?  I saw that most website say usually 9 months, but did not   know what criteria determined that.





qwazyx said:


> We ended up contacting Custom House and they told  us that all we needed to provide was a testamentary letter showing that  we are executors to transfer the deed into our name.



So you decided after all not to disclaim or abandon it?


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## qwazyx (Mar 13, 2015)

*Disclaim*

We may still try.  The only problem is that we found out that was an option, LITERALLY 9 months and 1 day after my mom's death!  We may try to petition for an extension.


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## Conan (Mar 16, 2015)

qwazyx said:


> We may still try.  The only problem is that we found out that was an option, LITERALLY 9 months and 1 day after my mom's death!  We may try to petition for an extension.



The 9 month rule is for qualified disclaimers, which allows somebody farther down the family tree to inherit without the disclaimant being treated as having made a gift. E.g., Dad dies with a will leaving all to his surviving spouse, Mom, with further provision that if Mom dies before him, then to children.  If there's property that Mom doesn't want to keep for herself and she disclaims within 9 months, the children take as if she had predeceased and she's not treated as having made a gift.  If she disclaims after 9 months (which she can still do under common law in all or most states) then she is treated as having made a gift to the children.

None of the above is pertinent to timeshare property that nobody wants.  In theory every family member could disclaim and the property would escheat to the state, but that's not easily done since there are often minor children farther down the family tree who don't have the legal power to disclaim short of appointing a guardian, going to court, etc.

You just want to have the executor/administrator renounce/abandon the property the same way you would if the decedent owned a toxic waste dump.  There's no gift issue there, nor is there a 9-month clock.


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