# Looking to buy EOY MOC - prices



## optimist (Feb 16, 2016)

After trading for the last few years, I see that the only place I ever want to go back to is Maui so I am selling my timeshares and have settled on a Marriott Maui Ocean Club EOY.  
The EOY ones are not so easy to find but I was wondering why is there such a huge price difference between the main building and The towers?
I have only stayed once in the main building and I find the extra bathroom a very nice feature. 
Are the towers more expensive because they are newer?  
If you were buying, where would you buy? 
Thanks!


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## jtp1947 (Feb 16, 2016)

The main buildings are converted hotel rooms, no full kitchen and no in suite laundry.  The newer Napili and Lahaina buildings have a full kitchen and laundry facilities in suite.  And yes, they are more expensive.  As to which one to buy, it is a personal choice.  If the amenities in the newer tower are more important to you than an extra bathroom, then you buy in the Napili or Lahaina tower.  There is a communal kitchen with cooktops for use by people in the original buildings and free laundry facilities on the ground floor.  There are also plenty of bar-b-q grills on the grounds.


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## optimist (Feb 16, 2016)

Thank you for your reply.  
Funny that I don't remember the lack of kitchens.  It was our first time so I guess we were spending a lot of time eating out but that might become an issue over time... 
I wonder if it worth an extra $10k though...


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## Bill4728 (Feb 16, 2016)

IMHO, the more you go back to the same resort the more you'll find yourself wanting to use the kitchen. SO if I where looking to buy a TS in Maui I'd look for one with at least a workable kitchen ( doesn't need to be a full gourmet kitchen like the towers)  BUT IMHO the kitchen at MOC is so bad that I think of it as a 1/4 kitchen. 

The studio side of the towers also have a really limited kitchen which I also dislike. especially since the studio side of the Westin TS have a great (but smaller) kitchen.


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## NTP66 (Feb 16, 2016)

Assuming that you're talking about a 2BR unit, I think you'll find it very difficult to find an EOY in the new towers. We own two weeks in the old buildings, and have no issues whatsoever with the kitchenette, since we prefer to eat out more than cooking in (part of the whole Hawaiian experience, IMO).


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## BocaBoy (Feb 16, 2016)

In your circumstances, I would personally buy only in the new towers, which is where we own.  We initially owned in the original section but did an "equity upgrade" shortly after the new towers were built in order to own there.

Marriott sold no EOY weeks in the new towers until Lahaina Tower was sold out and Napili Tower had been in sales for awhile, and then DC was introduced before Napili was completely sold out, so there is definitely a rather limited supply of new tower EOY weeks in existence.


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## optimist (Feb 16, 2016)

I see. Well I guess the rarity is what accounts for the price then. 
The EOY is a must for us as we will not go every year from the East Coast. 
I was not prepared to spend $20k for it though
Though I got cheap and bought a voluntary versus a mandatory Starwood and ended up regretting that decision. Maybe I should just bite the bullet...


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## PassionForTravel (Feb 16, 2016)

Since you haven't stayed in the newer towers. If it was me and I was considering spending $20K I'd make sure I'd stayed in that kind of unit. Why not try renting from an owner once. You could even rent one week in the main building and one in the new tower to see if it was worth the extra money for you.


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## GaryDouglas (Feb 16, 2016)

We have one of each.  The conversion units works out great when we have the grand kids (extra bathroom), and the purpose build units are great for the second week when we do our wash.  Besides the full kitchen they also have ceiling fans.  Whereas the conversion units on the lower floors can have really large balconies.  They both have their pluses and minuses.  Doesn't sound like you've seen both, so maybe the pictures in the link below will help...


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## Southerngirl528 (Feb 16, 2016)

Aloha Optimist,

I agree that EOY's are rarer in the new towers but we have 3 weeks in Napili that are EOY's so they are out there. The first 2 weeks we bought were in '09 direct from Marriott, 2 Bdrm Oceanfront for 2 weeks EOYO. Love both Maui and this property so much we just added on a resale EOYE one week 2 bdrm Island view a few months ago. 

We have not yet stayed in an Island view but we just didn't want to fork over so much $$ right now for another oceanfront Napili. Prices were just too high to justify right now. We thought we got a decent deal on the 2 bdrm EOYE Island view, it was a bit under $8000. Sure wish you lots of luck. YOu've gotten great advice from folks more knowledgeable than myself since I consider myself a relatively "new" MMOC owner. I say be patient no matter what your decision.


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## optimist (Feb 18, 2016)

Thank you for the great advice everyone.
I will keep my eye out but I think it is a very good idea to rent in the Towers and see the difference for myself.


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## myoakley (Feb 18, 2016)

You should check EBay.  EOY Marriott Maui timeshares appear regularly at very low prices, although most of them are in the original buildings.


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## NTP66 (Feb 18, 2016)

Another thing to be aware of - and BocaBoy or another MM1 owner can verify - is that not all 2BR units in the new towers lock-off to a 1BR + Studio. That may or may not be a factor for you, but it certainly was for us when we bought our 2BR unit in the old building.


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## BocaBoy (Feb 18, 2016)

NTP66 said:


> Another thing to be aware of - and BocaBoy or another MM1 owner can verify - is that not all 2BR units in the new towers lock-off to a 1BR + Studio. That may or may not be a factor for you, but it certainly was for us when we bought our 2BR unit in the old building.



There are apparently a very few non lockoffs in the new towers, but every owner has the ability to lock off regardless of what specific unit is in their deed.  I would not even know that a non lockoff existed except that it was reported here on TUG.  Unless it has changed recently, the online reservation system does not even give the opportunity to reserve a non lockoff specifically.


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## NTP66 (Feb 19, 2016)

BocaBoy said:


> There are apparently a very few non lockoffs in the new towers, but every owner has the ability to lock off regardless of what specific unit is in their deed.  I would not even know that a non lockoff existed except that it was reported here on TUG.  Unless it has changed recently, the online reservation system does not even give the opportunity to reserve a non lockoff specifically.



I've read it elsewhere (some units not being lock-offs), but if every float owner has the ability to lock-off, then it doesn't appear to be an issue.


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## BocaBoy (Feb 20, 2016)

NTP66 said:


> I've read it elsewhere (some units not being lock-offs), but if every float owner has the ability to lock-off, then it doesn't appear to be an issue.



Yes, it is a non-issue for owners.


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## dioxide45 (Feb 20, 2016)

NTP66 said:


> I've read it elsewhere (some units not being lock-offs), but if every float owner has the ability to lock-off, then it doesn't appear to be an issue.





BocaBoy said:


> Yes, it is a non-issue for owners.



It could be an issue if you want to lock off and there isn't the availability to do so.


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## GregT (Feb 21, 2016)

I know there is one unit per floor in Lahaina Villas (of 7 units) that is a dedicated 2BR. I do not know if there are any in Napili.  The LV unit is MG for first six floors then OV above sixth floor. 

Best.

Greg


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## gwhamm (Feb 21, 2016)

While I am not an expert by any means on the matter of lock off units in the Napili towers I would like to share this information.  We just returned from a weeks stay in this tower that I got from a owner via a ownertrades.com exchange.  
We stayed in room 6315.  When I talked with a desk clerk about the unit one morning she stated that our reservation was in a very limited, but specific category in that it was a 2 bedroom, non-lock off unit, with a island garden view.   We were actually in a ADA handicap accessible room but we did not request such accommodations.


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## GaryDouglas (Feb 21, 2016)

Maybe this attached file will help.  Look for rooms ending with "N"...


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## jread (Feb 23, 2016)

optimist said:


> After trading for the last few years, I see that the only place I ever want to go back to is Maui so I am selling my timeshares and have settled on a Marriott Maui Ocean Club EOY.
> The EOY ones are not so easy to find but I was wondering why is there such a huge price difference between the main building and The towers?
> I have only stayed once in the main building and I find the extra bathroom a very nice feature.
> Are the towers more expensive because they are newer?
> ...


I'm in the same boat, but we decided to purchase in the original towers for financial and availability reasons. I've seen Napili EOY listings come up from time to time, but they go quickly and for much more than original towers. If you want ocean front, the original towers are also much closer to the ocean. We toured Napili last summer and they are very nice, and would be our first choice if prices were lower and units more readily available. FYI, a couple weeks ago we attempted to purchase an EOY OF 2BD LO in the original towers for $9500 and Marriott exercised RORF.


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## BocaBoy (Feb 23, 2016)

dioxide45 said:


> It could be an issue if you want to lock off and there isn't the availability to do so.



There are so few of them in Lahaina/Napili Towers that it is really not an issue.  The only way it could mathematically become an issue is if literally almost everyone elected to lock off their unit for a given week, which is not what happens.


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## NTP66 (Feb 23, 2016)

Either way, you really have to evaluate if the new furnishings, full kitchen, etc. are worth the difference in price. For us, given that we spend such a significant time out of the unit, it didn't make much sense. We also don't need a full kitchen, and don't mind doing laundry in the common area.


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## optimist (Feb 23, 2016)

jread said:


> I'm in the same boat, but we decided to purchase in the original towers for financial and availability reasons. I've seen Napili EOY listings come up from time to time, but they go quickly and for much more than original towers. If you want ocean front, the original towers are also much closer to the ocean. We toured Napili last summer and they are very nice, and would be our first choice if prices were lower and units more readily available. FYI, a couple weeks ago we attempted to purchase an EOY OF 2BD LO in the original towers for $9500 and Marriott exercised RORF.



Thank you for sharing that.  As I was thinking  about it more and more, I was beginning to think I could live without a kitchen. Only  three things are non negotiable.  Ocean front, 2br and EOY. Since I had budgeted about 10k for this purchase,  I am disheartened to know that it wouldn't pass ROFR even in the original towers.


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## NTP66 (Feb 24, 2016)

optimist said:


> Thank you for sharing that.  As I was thinking  about it more and more, I was beginning to think I could live without a kitchen. Only  three things are non negotiable.  Ocean front, 2br and EOY. Since I had budgeted about 10k for this purchase,  I am disheartened to know that it wouldn't pass ROFR even in the original towers.



I don't think it's an absolute that you wouldn't be able to pass ROFR @ 10k for an EOY OF in the old towers. Marriott did exercise on the one referenced in this post, but if you search through older posts, you'll find that it really depends on a case by case basis. I paid $8300 for my EOY OV 2BR unit in the old towers (that passed ROFR), and found at least one reference to somebody attempting to pay $9k for the same unit and having it snatched up by Marriott.

It's still worth a shot, IMO, and the worst that happens is that your deposit is tied up in escrow for a few weeks while awaiting Marriott's decision. If it were me, I'd go in with my strongest offer (probably $10.5-1k) and hope for the best.


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## optimist (Oct 2, 2016)

Since I posted this , I have been keeping an eye out for the right thing and a few months ago, I purchased an EOY Marriott Ocean view from Ebay for $8,700 including closing costs.   Six  weeks after purchase, I was getting the run around and still had not heard whether Marriott waived ROFR. So I ended up calling Marriott directly and found out my contract had never been submitted:annoyed:  I requested my money back and decided to pay more, forget Ebay and do it through a broker.  Just found out through Syed that our EOY oceanfront offer of 12k was approved and will be submitted for ROFR.  I will keep you posted but am optimistic


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## 5infam (Oct 3, 2016)

Did you make your offer on the original units or the new towers? Hopefully you get passed ROFR on that one. Good luck!


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## NTP66 (Oct 3, 2016)

Is this a 1BR or 2BR unit? $12k seems high for a 1BR unit, and possibly low for a 2BR unit based solely on the results in ROFR.net. Either way, good luck with it and reply back once you hear back.


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## tschwa2 (Oct 3, 2016)

EOY so I think it's fine for a 2BR.


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## MOXJO7282 (Oct 3, 2016)

optimist said:


> I see. Well I guess the rarity is what accounts for the price then.
> The EOY is a must for us as we will not go every year from the East Coast.
> I was not prepared to spend $20k for it though
> Though I got cheap and bought a voluntary versus a mandatory Starwood and ended up regretting that decision. Maybe I should just bite the bullet...



I think $12k for EOY 2BDRM OF is a good price in today's market but you do get so much more bang for your buck with annual usage.  A 2BDRM OF MOC may be one of the best rental properties on the market when comparing MFs  to rental price. The profit is a min of $1500 and usually more like $1700.   The only thing that is close is a MOW plat OF and that is because MFs are cheaper. 

I see a 2BDRM OF for $19.5k which is a very good price for an annual. If that comes with a good week to rent then it can become a great deal.


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## GaryDouglas (Oct 3, 2016)

It looks like they are looking at an EOY because of location/travel considerations.  If that's the case, I'd recommend getting two of them for the same even or odd year.  They may not be able to do it right away financially, but it will give them the ability to reserve 13+ months out, which makes a big difference on getting your room preference.  Although ours are OFs, the times we've used our daughters OV, it was a great location.  Also, 7 days on Maui is not enough.  Gotta have at least 10 days.  Something to think about...


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## NTP66 (Oct 3, 2016)

We chose an EOY 2BR OV unit (on top of the EOY 1BR OV that we already owned) at MMO for two reasons: 1) the price difference was significant, and 2) the fact that there are significantly more OV units than OF units should make it easier for us to book whenever we wanted to. I swear I posted the exact number of units for each view a while back, but can't seem to find it.


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## JIMinNC (Oct 3, 2016)

NTP66 said:


> We chose an EOY 2BR OV unit (on top of the EOY 1BR OV that we already owned) at MMO for two reasons: 1) the price difference was significant, and 2) *the fact that there are significantly more OV units than OF units should make it easier for us to book whenever we wanted to.* I swear I posted the exact number of units for each view a while back, but can't seem to find it.



This is an interesting point. Like the OP, we are giving some thought to acquiring an EOY week at MOC. From 1992-2011 we averaged going to Maui every 2-3 years. Haven't been since then because our high school/college age kids can't easily take friends with them on a trip that far. But our youngest will be heading to college next fall, so my wife and I are thinking about getting back into an EOY Maui rhythm, probably starting in winter 2019. To facilitate that, we may acquire an EOY Odd week sometime in 2017 so we can be ready by early 2018 to reserve something for early 2019.

My thinking has been directed toward acquiring an EOY 1BR OF because the prices for 1BR OF are not that much higher than 1BR OV, but your comment about the limited 1BR OF inventory makes me wonder if reserving a week in January/February in an OF might be tough. Anyone have any opinions about 1BR OV vs 1BR OF at MOC? The price differential is minimal; the maintenance fees are the same; but if it's a lot tougher to book OF, that could be a factor to consider. Along that same line, I have read posts about folks who are having difficulty booking MOC in Jan/Feb with weeks. IS that hard to do at the 12-month mark?

Additionally, since the kids will be more or less out of the nest by then, we're leaning towards a 1BR instead of 2BR given the huge price differential ($5K to 7K for 1BR EOY vs. $14K to $17 K for 2BR EOY). Does anyone have a different view on the 1BR vs. 2BR choice? Is there some advantage to the 2BR that I haven't considered?


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## NTP66 (Oct 3, 2016)

Found what I was looking for, though my memory was completely backwards, as there are more 2BR OF units than there are 2BR OV:

*Unit numbers per view*

```
Molokai    Lanai
1BR OV |    81     |   11
1BR OF |    13     |    5
2BR OV |    11     |   22
2BR OF |    20     |   28
```

Another reason we went with a 2BR is that it has more renting power, and can be used in consecutive weeks if you're fine with a studio for one of them. We paid $8k for our EOY 2BR OV, FWIW.


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## optimist (Oct 3, 2016)

12k is for a two bedroom ocean front original towers. I would  have been ok with buying ocean view since I think unlike at the Westin, you are much more likely to get a good view of the ocean at the Marriott but this is what Syed found and I am happy to pay a few thousand dollars more for a chance to "spit in the ocean" as someone put it

I like the idea of two EOYs but I also have my Hilton and if ever they finish that property, I like the idea of spending a week in Kihei and a week in Lahaina.


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## optimist (Oct 3, 2016)

MOXJO7282 said:


> I think $12k for EOY 2BDRM OF is a good price in today's market but you do get so much more bang for your buck with annual usage.  A 2BDRM OF MOC may be one of the best rental properties on the market when comparing MFs  to rental price.



Yes, they are definitely a better deal than EOY and I passed up on quite a few because I just can't see myself dealing with renting.  I sold our Hyatt because we had too many points and it seemed like every time I turned around more points showed up in my account! i am hoping EOY will be just right since our Hilton is also an EOY odd.


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## 5infam (Oct 3, 2016)

I am struggling with the same sort of thing right now. I only need a EOY, but there are not as many out there (new towers), or they can be as expensive as an annual in a lesser view category. I know I won't use it more than EOY, but if for some reason I miss my EOY use because I have some other place to be, then it will be another 2 years until I can go back to Maui and that is just too long to be away!

From a budget standpoint, the EOY is better too, but it seems like there are better deals on annual overall. I guess I will figure it out when the right deal comes along.

Good luck and let us know when you pass ROFR.


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## JIMinNC (Oct 3, 2016)

NTP66 said:


> Found what I was looking for, though my memory was completely backwards, as there are more 2BR OF units than there are 2BR OV:
> 
> *Unit numbers per view*
> 
> ...



That large 92 OV vs. 18 OF differential for 1BR reiterates my question in post #33 above. How hard would it be to reserve a 1BR OF vs. a 1BR OV in the peak Jan/Feb time frame? The differential also explains why Marriott Resales always seem to have 1BR EOY OV but I rarely see 1BR EOY OF.

Clearly there's more 2BR OF units, but I have difficulty justifying the huge price differential between 1BR and 2BR, since our kids will be out of the nest by the time we would own anything. The 2BR maintenance fee isn't that much more than 1BR, but somewhere around $7,300 for 1BR EOY OF vs. $17,700 for 2BR EOY OF is a huge difference and really stretches out the breakeven point. Those are Marriott Resales prices. Third-Party brokers usually seem a little less for each - around $6,000 for 1BR EOY OF and $15,000 for 2BR EOY OF. Still a big difference.


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## NTP66 (Oct 3, 2016)

JIMinNC said:


> That large 92 OV vs. 18 OF differential for 1BR reiterates my question in post #33 above. How hard would it be to reserve a 1BR OF vs. a 1BR OV in the peak Jan/Feb time frame? The differential also explains why Marriott Resales always seem to have 1BR EOY OV but I rarely see 1BR EOY OF.
> 
> Clearly there's more 2BR OF units, but I have difficulty justifying the huge price differential between 1BR and 2BR, since our kids will be out of the nest by the time we would own anything. The 2BR maintenance fee isn't that much more than 1BR, but somewhere around $7,300 for 1BR EOY OF vs. $17,700 for 2BR EOY OF is a huge difference and really stretches out the breakeven point. Those are Marriott Resales prices. Third-Party brokers usually seem a little less for each - around $6,000 for 1BR EOY OF and $15,000 for 2BR EOY OF. Still a big difference.


I'm interested to hear what others have to say about that, as well. After going through old e-mail between myself and my wife, the EOY 2BR OV unit was the compromise when deciding to purchase a second unit. She originally was okay with a 1BR OF unit, while I wanted the 2BR OF unit.

I had been tracking prices of all four EOY types for more than one year, and these are the ranges I have found (on all resale sites):

1BR OV - $3500-$4500
1BR OF - $6000-$7500
2BR OV - $7500-$10,000
2BR OF - $13,000-$16,000 (this new $12k unit is the lowest I have ever seen)

Keep in mind that this doesn't mean that those low figures passed ROFR.


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## JIMinNC (Oct 3, 2016)

NTP66 said:


> I'm interested to hear what others have to say about that, as well. After going through old e-mail between myself and my wife, the EOY 2BR OV unit was the compromise when deciding to purchase a second unit. She originally was okay with a 1BR OF unit, while I wanted the 2BR OF unit.
> 
> I had been tracking prices of all four EOY types for more than one year, and these are the ranges I have found (on all resale sites):
> 
> ...



For now, I'm focusing mainly on Marriott Resales prices since our goal is to buy a week that we can enroll - hopefully by only purchasing a minimal amount of Trust Points. My hope is since they were enrolling EY weeks this past summer with a 3000 point purchase, they might enroll an EOY week with a minimum 1500 point purchase. Marriott Resales prices are:

1BR OV - $7000
1BR OF - ??? - but based on view price differential for 2BR units - maybe $7,300(?)
2BR OV - $17,100
2BR OF - $17,700

We'll probably do a presentation when we're in Hilton Head next April and explore our options. If Marriott won't offer something we can live with, we'll look at third-party resellers.


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## NTP66 (Oct 3, 2016)

Ah, gotcha. The price difference between Marriott's resale department and 3rd party were just too far off for us (double in price), but points never factored into our equation.


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## JIMinNC (Oct 3, 2016)

NTP66 said:


> I had been tracking prices of all four EOY types for more than one year, and these are the ranges I have found (on all resale sites):
> 
> 1BR OV - $3500-$4500
> 1BR OF - $7500-$10,000
> ...



I think the 1BR OF prices in your list may be high. Samuel Rodriguez has EOY Odd and Even 1BR OF units listed on Redweek right now for $5900. The others look reasonable for third-party brokers. Interesting that Marriott Resales' price  of $17,700 is reasonably competitive for EOY 2BR OF. They have no EOY 1BR OF listed on their site right now, but if the differential between EOY 1BR OV and EOY 1BR OF is small (as is the case with the 2BR category), then Marriott Resales price of $7,000 for a 1BR OV would mean that their price for a 1BR OF might be competitive as well. But Marriott's OV prices are well above the third-party brokers.


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## NTP66 (Oct 3, 2016)

JIMinNC said:


> I think the 1BR OF prices in your list may be high. Samuel Rodriguez has EOY Odd and Even 1BR OF units listed on Redweek right now for $5900. The others look reasonable for third-party brokers. Interesting that Marriott Resales' price  of $17,700 is reasonably competitive for EOY 2BR OF. They have no EOY 1BR OF listed on their site right now, but if the differential between EOY 1BR OV and EOY 1BR OF is small (as is the case with the 2BR category), then Marriott Resales price of $7,000 for a 1BR OV would mean that their price for a 1BR OF might be competitive as well. But Marriott's OV prices are well above the third-party brokers.



Sorry, copied and pasted the line twice - the range for 1BR OF's when I was looking was $6000-$7500. I corrected the original post.


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## JIMinNC (Oct 3, 2016)

NTP66 said:


> Sorry, copied and pasted the line twice - the range for 1BR OF's when I was looking was $6000-$7500.



That sounds more like it. I didn't catch that they were the same either when I was looking at your chart.


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## NTP66 (Oct 3, 2016)

The biggest issue I saw with the 1BR OF units was the sheer lack of availability compared to the others. Sure, there are 18 units, but 7 of them are 4th floor or lower, which I'm not a fan of.


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## JIMinNC (Oct 3, 2016)

NTP66 said:


> The biggest issue I saw with the 1BR OF units was the sheer lack of availability compared to the others. Sure, there are 18 units, but 7 of them are 4th floor or lower, which I'm not a fan of.



Is fourth floor still below the tree line?


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## 5infam (Oct 3, 2016)

JIMinNC said:


> Marriott Resales prices are:
> 1BR OV - $7000
> 1BR OF - ??? - but based on view price differential for 2BR units - maybe $7,300(?)
> 2BR OV - $17,100
> 2BR OF - $17,700



What gets me on these numbers is that Marriott only has a $600 difference between OV and OF, but it is thousands of dollars difference on the resale market. Just seems odd to me that it works out that way. I guess it is the market speaking that people are willing to pay a bigger premium than Marriott thought for OF?


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## NTP66 (Oct 3, 2016)

JIMinNC said:


> Is fourth floor still below the tree line?



I want to say that the 4th floor is just above the tree line, but you don't have a terrific view of the beach. I prefer higher floors not only for the view, but also because it's quieter the higher you get.


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## JIMinNC (Oct 3, 2016)

5infam said:


> What gets me on these numbers is that Marriott only has a $600 difference between OV and OF, but it is thousands of dollars difference on the resale market. Just seems odd to me that it works out that way. I guess it is the market speaking that people are willing to pay a bigger premium than Marriott thought for OF?



I agree. As I said in post #42, Marriott is sorta competitive price-wise for the EOY OF units (assuming my guess on their EOY 1BR OF price is close). Their prices are a bit higher, but not grossly so. But Marriott clearly puts a higher valuation on the OV units than the third-party market does. Their prices on OV units are almost double the external market.


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## JIMinNC (Oct 3, 2016)

NTP66 said:


> The biggest issue I saw with the 1BR OF units was the sheer lack of availability compared to the others. Sure, there are 18 units, but 7 of them are 4th floor or lower, which I'm not a fan of.



So with only 11 1BR OF units 5th floor or above, do you as a current owner know how MOC handles room assignments between owners? Given that I would think most people would request a high floor, how does MOC determine for any given week, which owners get the high floor and who gets stuck with the low floors?


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## dioxide45 (Oct 3, 2016)

JIMinNC said:


> So with only 10 1BR OF units 5th floor or above, do you as a current owner know how MOC handles room assignments between owners? Given that I would think most people would request a high floor, how does MOC determine for any given week, which owners get the high floor and who gets stuck with the low floors?



I believe MOC uses time-stamp of when the reservation was made.


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## NTP66 (Oct 3, 2016)

dioxide45 said:


> I believe MOC uses time-stamp of when the reservation was made.



This is what I have been told, as well.


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## JIMinNC (Oct 3, 2016)

dioxide45 said:


> I believe MOC uses time-stamp of when the reservation was made.





NTP66 said:


> This is what I have been told, as well.



Would someone who owns only one week at MOC be prioritized behind multi-week owners, or would EOY owners be prioritized behind EY owners? Or is the time stamp the only variable? 

This is a valuable discussion because I had assumed OF was a no-brainer versus an OV, because of the minimal price differential at Marriott Resales, and because the Marriott Resales OF prices were reasonably competitive with third-party brokers. But...if the supply of higher floor EOY 1BR OF units is so limited, then OV might be a more predictable choice. In that case, Marriott Resales is not nearly as attractive an option as a third-party broker since for OV units, Marriott's price is way higher. For OV, it might be smarter to buy from a third-party broker and then hope Marriott offers the external resale enrollment promotion again (and hope they would enroll an EOY for half the EY amount).


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## NTP66 (Oct 3, 2016)

I have always been told - by nobody from Marriott, mind you - that the time stamp is always the first factor in determining priority, and that it didn't matter if you were a single week owner or a multi-week owner. This is, of course, assuming that two people are making the reservation at the same time.

I swear I read an old thread here in the past that said weeks owners did have priority over points owners, who in turn had priority over exchanges.

That said, I think the scenario you're looking at is if a multi-week owner makes a reservation at the 12-month mark, is his request given priority over a single week owner making a reservation at the very same time, correct? Too bad Marriott doesn't publish this, unless they do and just make it impossible to find.


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## dioxide45 (Oct 3, 2016)

JIMinNC said:


> Would someone who owns only one week at MOC be prioritized behind multi-week owners, or would EOY owners be prioritized behind EY owners? Or is the time stamp the only variable?
> 
> This is a valuable discussion because I had assumed OF was a no-brainer versus an OV, because of the minimal price differential at Marriott Resales, and because the Marriott Resales OF prices were reasonably competitive with third-party brokers. But...if the supply of higher floor EOY 1BR OF units is so limited, then OV might be a more predictable choice. In that case, Marriott Resales is not nearly as attractive an option as a third-party broker since for OV units, Marriott's price is way higher. For OV, it might be smarter to buy from a third-party broker and then hope Marriott offers the external resale enrollment promotion again (and hope they would enroll an EOY for half the EY amount).



Do keep in mind that multi week owners can make reservations at 13 months. If they do, their time stamp will be before many single week owners.


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## JIMinNC (Oct 3, 2016)

NTP66 said:


> I think the scenario you're looking at is if a multi-week owner makes a reservation at the 12-month mark, is his request given priority over a single week owner making a reservation at the very same time, correct?





dioxide45 said:


> Do keep in mind that multi week owners can make reservations at 13 months. If they do, their time stamp will be before many single week owners.



NTP66, yes that is the scenario I'm talking about.

dioxide45, yes, that's one of my concerns. I've heard MOC has a lot of multi-week owners, so the concern I now have after reading this thread is that with only 11 high floor 1BR OF units, those multi-week owners will gobble them up most years and a lowly single week MOC owner would be easily shut out. If we bought an MOC week, we would be multi-week owners within Marriott, but we would never book the Barony week consecutively or concurrently with any MOC week we might buy in the future, so from MOC's perspective, we would be a single-week owner.


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## NTP66 (Oct 4, 2016)

JIMinNC said:


> NTP66, yes that is the scenario I'm talking about.
> 
> dioxide45, yes, that's one of my concerns. I've heard MOC has a lot of multi-week owners, so the concern I now have after reading this thread is that with only 11 high floor 1BR OF units, those multi-week owners will gobble them up most years and a lowly single week MOC owner would be easily shut out. If we bought an MOC week, we would be multi-week owners within Marriott, but we would never book the Barony week consecutively or concurrently with any MOC week we might buy in the future, so from MOC's perspective, we would be a single-week owner.



Since I was interested myself, I called MOC directly and was told that room preference is _solely_ based on the timestamp of the reservation, nothing else. So, multi-week owners, as well as DC members who are Premiere or above, who book 13-months out obviously have the advantage here.


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## Fasttr (Oct 4, 2016)

NTP66 said:


> Since I was interested myself, I called MOC directly and was told that room preference is _solely_ based on the timestamp of the reservation, nothing else. So, multi-week owners, as well as DC members who are Premiere or above, who book 13-months out obviously have the advantage here.



I have a feeling MOC is not alone in this room assignment policy.  I made a failed attempt at reviving FractionalTraveler's 2013 thread "Homeless in Paradise" about a month ago, and although the revival attempt gained no traction, my rationale for the attempt was that over the past couple of years, I have gotten great DC point based room assignments, and to me at least, had the feeling the DC ressie's were no longer slotted below weeks owners, etc in the pecking order.  I tend to book as early as I can, so a time stamp only approach would make sense as to why I have been happy with my room assignments....and although I am headed back to MOC next year....all of my ressies over the past couple of years have been at other resorts.


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## JIMinNC (Oct 4, 2016)

NTP66 said:


> Since I was interested myself, I called MOC directly and was told that room preference is _solely_ based on the timestamp of the reservation, nothing else. So, multi-week owners, as well as DC members who are Premiere or above, who book 13-months out obviously have the advantage here.



That raises another question...if someone owned a 1BR OF unit, would the units available for actual assignment include just the 18 dedicated 1BR units, or could they also assign a 1BR OF owner into the 1BR portion of a 2BR OF where the owner had locked off their unit into a 1BR and a studio and deposited the 1BR to II? If so, that may somewhat increase the available supply of 1BR OF units on higher floors for owners if they opted to put exchangers in the 1BR dedicated or 1BR portion of lock offs that are on the lower floors and put owners in the higher floors. If so, anyone know how prevalent locking off/depositing is at MOC?


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## Ann in CA (Oct 21, 2016)

JIMinNC said:


> That raises another question...if someone owned a 1BR OF unit, would the units available for actual assignment include just the 18 dedicated 1BR units, or could they also assign a 1BR OF owner into the 1BR portion of a 2BR OF where the owner had locked off their unit into a 1BR and a studio and deposited the 1BR to II? If so, that may somewhat increase the available supply of 1BR OF units on higher floors for owners if they opted to put exchangers in the 1BR dedicated or 1BR portion of lock offs that are on the lower floors and put owners in the higher floors. If so, anyone know how prevalent locking off/depositing is at MOC?



Our 10/1/16 exchange to MOC was to a 5th floor OF one bedroom lockoff in Molokai. The corner unit view was spectacular, and was not booked a year in advance. We exchanged a one bedroom Mountainside, and actually received an email confirming that we would be OF Molokai in response, when I called after receiving the preference email, which really offered no space to request. 

Because the map showed most 1 bedroom OF units in Molokai, I was surprised to realize it actually was a two bedroom locked off. Due to a mix up, our first night we were in a one bedroom OF in Lanai, which was also a 2 bedroom locked off. So we know of at least two units that were originally two bedrooms assigned as one bedroom and studio that week. We have been pretty lucky with villa assignment at MOC in the past, but with the wording about exchangers starting with island view, I am always hesitant to get my hopes up. I have always felt (so far) that MOC and Waiohai really try to give what is assigned or requested when possible.


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## GaryDouglas (Oct 22, 2016)

Just to warm you up...


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## JIMinNC (Oct 22, 2016)

Ann in CA said:


> Our 10/1/16 exchange to MOC was to a 5th floor OF one bedroom lockoff in Molokai. The corner unit view was spectacular, and was not booked a year in advance. We exchanged a one bedroom Mountainside, and actually received an email confirming that we would be OF Molokai in response, when I called after receiving the preference email, which really offered no space to request.
> 
> Because the map showed most 1 bedroom OF units in Molokai, I was surprised to realize it actually was a two bedroom locked off. Due to a mix up, our first night we were in a one bedroom OF in Lanai, which was also a 2 bedroom locked off. So we know of at least two units that were originally two bedrooms assigned as one bedroom and studio that week. We have been pretty lucky with villa assignment at MOC in the past, but with the wording about exchangers starting with island view, I am always hesitant to get my hopes up. I have always felt (so far) that MOC and Waiohai really try to give what is assigned or requested when possible.



It doesn't surprise me that an exchanger could be placed into a lock-off unit, since that is what was obviously deposited into II. But since as an exchanger, they kept you in the exchanged unit, that would seem to indicate that they do not automatically shift exchangers into lesser view units to leave more of the best views for owners. But then again, your trip was in October, which is low season. In peak season in late January/February when demand from owners is probably  greater, I wonder if it is handled differently then.

Since we're trying to evaluate possibly buying an EOY MOC 1BR unit next year, my question is more related to whether OWNERS of dedicated 1BR OF units could be assigned to a 1BR OF side of a lock-off that had been deposited into II. That would, in theory, increase the potential number of higher floor 1BR OF units available to owners, making it more likely as an owner to get a higher-floor OF assignment (if they would assign the exchanger to a lower floor dedicated unit and give the 1BR owner the higher floor lock-off). But if what happened to you in October holds true even in peak season, it sounds like those deposited 1BR OF lock-offs would stay in the pool available to exchangers and would not be available for 1BR OF owner assignment. That also aligns with what I was told when I called MOC a week or two ago and asked the question. I didn't get a sense that the person I talked to was all that knowledgeable, but she said that dedicated 1BR OF owners could only be assigned into other dedicated 1BR OF units - they could not be assigned into a 1BR OF lock-off, even if one was available when they made room assignments.

Our core concern is that with only 18 1BR OF units and with 7 of those being 4th floor or lower, getting a high floor might be problematic, since we would probably be in line behind multi-week owners that could reserve at 13 months.  All those factors are making me start to lean more toward 1BR OV instead of 1BR OF due to the much larger volume of 1BR OV units, even though we really would prefer OF, I think.

Additionally, I found out from Marriott Resales that their price for EOY 1BR OF is not about $7300 as I guessed in post #40 above, but actually it's over $9000 versus only $7000 for OV. Even though the differential between EOY 2BR OV and EOY 2BR OF is only $600 ($17,100 vs. $17,700), there is a much bigger differential for the 1BR categories. They said they don't get many 1BR OF listings (probably because of the fact their are only 18 units total in that category). So my assumption is they price them $2000+ higher because the supply is so limited. Another reason to lean more toward OV...


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## 5infam (Oct 23, 2016)

JIMinNC said:


> Additionally, I found out from Marriott Resales that their price for EOY 1BR OF is not about $7300 as I guessed in post #40 above, but actually it's over $9000 versus only $7000 for OV. Even though the differential between EOY 2BR OV and EOY 2BR OF is only $600 ($17,100 vs. $17,700), there is a much bigger differential for the 1BR categories. They said they don't get many 1BR OF listings (probably because of the fact their are only 18 units total in that category). So my assumption is they price them $2000+ higher because the supply is so limited. Another reason to lean more toward OV...



Hi Jim - will you only buy from Marriott or is a resale ok? I saw a 1 bedroom OF Even Years on Redweek for $5,800,and another one that was Odd Years for $5,900. Much cheaper than $9k+. I hear what you are saying about getting the right view and the limited number of units, and then comparing that to the cost. However, if one of these resales (or something like it elsewhere) works out, you can get it less than an OV from Marriott and if on occasion you don't get your higher floor, at least you have OF and you saved a lot of money. The add on Redweek for the Even years unit said they would pay closing and transfer too. Its that time of year to find a deal as maintenance fees are due and I have heard from a couple of brokers that Marriott isn't buying many weeks right now through ROFR, just points. I just got a 2 bedroom mountain/garden for $3,500 that just passed ROFR so you never know. Good luck!


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## JIMinNC (Oct 23, 2016)

5infam said:


> Hi Jim - will you only buy from Marriott or is a resale ok? I saw a 1 bedroom OF Even Years on Redweek for $5,800,and another one that was Odd Years for $5,900. Much cheaper than $9k+. I hear what you are saying about getting the right view and the limited number of units, and then comparing that to the cost. However, if one of these resales (or something like it elsewhere) works out, you can get it less than an OV from Marriott and if on occasion you don't get your higher floor, at least you have OF and you saved a lot of money. The add on Redweek for the Even years unit said they would pay closing and transfer too. Its that time of year to find a deal as maintenance fees are due and I have heard from a couple of brokers that Marriott isn't buying many weeks right now through ROFR, just points. I just got a 2 bedroom mountain/garden for $3,500 that just passed ROFR so you never know. Good luck!



I've seen those Redweek listings as well. We don't want to buy right now because we want our first use year to be 2019 (looking for EOY Odd). So we just need to get the transaction closed sometime in 2017, so that when the Jan/Feb 2019 booking window opens in Jan/Feb 2018, we are able to book.

Our first choice is to buy from Marriott Resales in the hopes that we can structure a hybrid bundle that gives us the ability to enroll the week. Being able to enroll would offer several benefits for us - 1) the matching points we would need to buy plus the point value of the EOY week would be just enough to get us to Executive status, opening up the ability to book 1+ night stays with our points in the 13-month window; 2) With the Maui week enrolled, we would have the option to elect for Destination Points instead of using our 1BR week in any given year. By having the ability to elect points, we get more usage options. In most years, it will likely just be my wife and me, so we would just use our owned week. But if, for example, we wanted to stay in the Lahaina/Napili villas one year, we could elect points and then add in a few of our other points and book a 1BR in the Villas that year. Similarly, if one or both of our kids decided to go with us one year, we could elect points and then book a 2BR. Finally, if we wind up buying a 1BR OV, and one year we decided to try OF, we could elect for points and upgrade our view. If, for those years when we opt to elect for points, we traveled in January, the points required to book are basically the same as the election value of the week, so there is no skim.

So for those reasons, our first choice is to try to structure a hybrid bundle with Marriott so we can enroll the MOC week, thus gaining many more usage options. On our Hilton Head trip in April 2017, we will likely do a presentation and see what they offer. If we ultimately decide the bundle price is too steep (or if the hybrid bundles are discontinued as rumored in This Thread), then we'll go to an external broker and get an OF or OV for a little better price than what we can get from Marriott...but for right now, that's Plan B.


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## 5infam (Oct 23, 2016)

Totally makes sense! That is the nice thing about points, you get a lot of options, and with status you get more options. Whenever I see posts that lay out different options with points I always think that it sounds like a lot of fun. I love to go on vacation, but for me, planning it is part of the enjoyment. Maybe someday I will buy some points to play with. Good luck finding what you need when the time is right.


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## 5infam (Oct 26, 2016)

optimist said:


> Since I posted this , I have been keeping an eye out for the right thing and a few months ago, I purchased an EOY Marriott Ocean view from Ebay for $8,700 including closing costs.   Six  weeks after purchase, I was getting the run around and still had not heard whether Marriott waived ROFR. So I ended up calling Marriott directly and found out my contract had never been submitted:annoyed:  I requested my money back and decided to pay more, forget Ebay and do it through a broker.  Just found out through Syed that our EOY oceanfront offer of 12k was approved and will be submitted for ROFR.  I will keep you posted but am optimistic



Hi Optimist - I was curious to find out if you passed ROFR yet or not? I think it has been at least 15 days. if you can, let us know - I may be buying the same thing as you so curious as to Marriott's appetite on these right now. TIA!


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## optimist (Oct 26, 2016)

5infam said:


> Hi Optimist - I was curious to find out if you passed ROFR yet or not? I think it has been at least 15 days. if you can, let us know - I may be buying the same thing as you so curious as to Marriott's appetite on these right now. TIA!



Hi 
I did post here that I passed ROFR but my post was removed
I thought it was right to follow up on this thread just to update everyone how it turned out but I guess because I also  posted it on the Marriott ROFR thread, it wass considered  "duplicate'. 
Anyway, I passed at 12k for EOY oceanfront.  Thank  you for asking and see you in Maui!


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## 5infam (Oct 27, 2016)

optimist said:


> Hi
> I did post here that I passed ROFR but my post was removed
> I thought it was right to follow up on this thread just to update everyone how it turned out but I guess because I also  posted it on the Marriott ROFR thread, it wass considered  "duplicate'.
> Anyway, I passed at 12k for EOY oceanfront.  Thank  you for asking and see you in Maui!



Awesome - thanks for sharing. I may have actually seen your post there, and just didn't put two and two together. I understand why the posts may get moved there, but it's great to see them in context of the original post. If you get a chance, maybe post your ROFR passing on ROFR.net, it will only take a minute and it will help everyone else on recent data.

Congratulations and see you in Maui!!


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## TXTortoise (Feb 19, 2017)

Great thread, as I'm considering the same with the focus on EOY OF...though the above has me reconsidering OV, due to availability.  2BR lock-off is most appealing with the rental option to recoup fees.

Are any of the original tower units either fixed unit or fixed week, i.e., is is possible to buy in and guarantee a room above 5th floor via the purchase deed? Our target period has been to hit whale season EOY, so generally Jan through mid-March.


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## JIMinNC (Feb 20, 2017)

TXTortoise said:


> Great thread, as I'm considering the same with the focus on EOY OF...though the above has me reconsidering OV, due to availability.  2BR lock-off is most appealing with the rental option to recoup fees.
> 
> Are any of the original tower units either fixed unit or fixed week, i.e., is is possible to buy in and guarantee a room above 5th floor via the purchase deed? Our target period has been to hit whale season EOY, so generally Jan through mid-March.



If you are specifically looking for a 2BR, then if you look at the chart in post #34, you'll see there are actually more 2BR OF (48) than 2BR OV (33). The category that is a bit tight on numbers is 1BR OF (18) compared to 1BR OV (92).

Advantage Vacations in Hawaii frequently has 2BR OF EOY listings and there are a number of brokers that list on Redweek that have them as well.


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## MOXJO7282 (Feb 21, 2017)

If you can consider sending another $8k maybe less you can get an annual. I purchased recently an annual floating OF in the new towers for $19.1k including sale price and closing fees plus $200 in bank fees so good deals are out there for 2BDRM annual units. 

I was doing the same as you looking for EOY OF but was searching for 6 months and nothing at a good price came around. I think there is a big market for the EOY units so that may be why I haven't come across many of them. 

To me a good price is $11k all-in and a great price is $10k or less and I just haven't seen anything in that range for some time. I know a few on TUG have done even better recently on some OVs but I really think those are one-offs and you'd be lucky to find an OF below $10k

I already have a 2BD OF EOY that I secured 5 years ago for a tad under $9k all-in and  (2) 2BD OVs at $1k and $1.5k less also 5 or so years ago. Unfortunately I've not seen this pricing in the time I've been tracking them so the pricing for MOCs have differently been maintained and even risen it appears. 

Came across the 2BD OF float on ebay from reputable seller and couldn't pass it up. I had to find the extra money but did what I always do and got a 15 month 0% balance transfer deal for the extra $10k. I paid a 2% fee for the balance transfer so that added the $200 but it was well worth it to secure this excellent week.

So good luck finding a good EOY but if you see a good annual I'd consider that as well because it brings  much more value than  EOY if you can get one at a good price.


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## NTP66 (Feb 21, 2017)

Had there been an EOY 2BR OF unit available for under $11k when I was looking, I'd have jumped on it. That said, I'm completely comfortable with the $8300 that I did pay for my EOY 2BR OV unit.


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## TXTortoise (Feb 23, 2017)

Do we know if there is a fixed subset of rooms/weeks that are EOY units, eg., 28 2BR OF in Lanai @ 28. How many are EOY.
 X number must be designated EY vs EOY and I assume that status would follow the room just to make all the reservations balance.  Makes a 1BR EOY OF reservation even harder to get.

*Unit numbers per view*
Code:
         Molokai    Lanai
1BR OV |    81     |   11
1BR OF |    13     |    5
2BR OV |    11     |   22
2BR OF |    20     |   28

Still trying to find that nice graphic showing the OF rooms, buried in one of the recent threads. ;-)


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## GaryDouglas (Feb 24, 2017)

TXTortoise said:


> *Unit numbers per view*
> Code:
> Molokai    Lanai    Maui
> 1BR OV |    81     |   11     |    7
> ...



I added the Maui wing OVs to your table.  Are you looking for one of the graphics here?


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## NTP66 (Feb 24, 2017)

TXTortoise said:


> Do we know if there is a fixed subset of rooms/weeks that are EOY units, eg., 28 2BR OF in Lanai @ 28. How many are EOY.
> X number must be designated EY vs EOY and I assume that status would follow the room just to make all the reservations balance.  Makes a 1BR EOY OF reservation even harder to get.
> 
> *Unit numbers per view*
> ...


I would love to know this, as well, though my assumption is that none of the rooms have any sort of designation like 'Annual', 'EOY - Even', 'EOY - Odd', etc.


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## GaryDouglas (Feb 24, 2017)

The Deed ID identifies odd or even in the original buildings.  May be similar in the Napili/Lahaina buildings (?).
MH*8888*77*E....Even 
MH*9999*66*X ...Odd
So you'd have to know all the deed numbers to decipher this...


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## NTP66 (Feb 24, 2017)

GaryDouglas said:


> The Deed ID identifies odd or even in the original buildings.  May be similar in the Napili/Lahaina buildings (?).
> MH*8888*77*E....Even
> MH*9999*66*X ...Odd
> So you'd have to know all the deed numbers to decipher this...


Interesting, thank you. Unless you have a commercial account to download the records in bulk, it's far too time consuming to search through Hawaii's Bureau of Conveyances website. I did confirm that the relevant bits appear to show up in those results, so it's certainly possible to gather this information.


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