# Poll: What is maximum price would you be willing to pay ($) for StarPoints (cents/SP)?



## DavidnRobin (Dec 8, 2016)

How about a poll? (don't think we have done once since BBS changeover)

What is maximum price would you be willing to pay ($) for StarPoints (cents/SP)?

Straight-foward - if SPG were to offer (as they do) to buy SPs.

This is intended as a consensus view - no wrong/right answers.


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## DavidnRobin (Dec 12, 2016)

Bump.
Just 30 votes? Does VSE TUG forum really have that low of viewership?

Based on a small statistic - looks like TPG has SPs at a much higher cost (2.7c/SP) than people who cared to opine in this poll.


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## DeniseM (Dec 12, 2016)

Hi Dave - The thread got 213 views, but if you only own resales, and don't have a Starwood AMEX, you might not be interested in Starpoints.


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## DavidnRobin (Dec 12, 2016)

DeniseM said:


> Hi Dave - The thread got 213 views, but if you only own resales, and don't have a Starwood AMEX, you might not be interested in Starpoints.



Are 'Views' - unique views?  That would make the WSJ thread views enormous.

There is a No Interest choice, but I understand - this is for SP value. I would think that based on how many people deal with SPs here - even lurkers - more than 30 votes. Perhaps, goes to show how few VSE owners even view VSE TUG - sadly, because a lot of great info here.  Also, if traffic has been reduced.

Surprised, that only 25 votes since it takes about the same amount to view as to vote (anonymously).

I was just curious about consensus view as compared to reported values.
I am getting better usage for UR points (difference between Spend and Buy) - perhaps for ex-US SP travel value, but suspect typical usage is more like ours.  Perhaps not.

Anyway, n=25 is too low for consensus amoung VSE Tuggers SP value (Buy).
So... Fail. Other than supporting my view on SP Buy.

On a side-note: 40,000th in line for on-line Hamilton tickets (SF public sale today) - 100 minutes and now at 33,000.  Luckily I had the foresight to join SHNSF last March. 
4 hours after opening - 11,000th in line


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## DeniseM (Dec 12, 2016)

I tested it and 229 appears to be unique views, since I couldn't change the number by looking at it multiple times.


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## PamMo (Dec 12, 2016)

Dave, I think most people in this forum have Starwood/Vistana timeshares, and are more interested in StarOptions vs StarPoints. But, you're obviously a numbers guy and love this stuff. Six distinct values for StarPoints between $.01 and $.028+   takes some heavy calculation when you just toss the question out there. For me, what I'd be willing to pay per SP depends on whether or not I have a need/use for them. Right now, I'm flush with points all over the place, so I have no interest in purchasing more. My answer could be very different in a few months.


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## VacationForever (Dec 12, 2016)

I just used up about a million MRPs to book 3 Marriott travel packages in the past 3 months, with more than half converted from SPs.  I am in need of points as point inventory is running low.  As such, I am willing to pay more for SPs.


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## DavidnRobin (Dec 12, 2016)

PamMo said:


> Dave, I think most people in this forum have Starwood/Vistana timeshares, and are more interested in StarOptions vs StarPoints. But, you're obviously a numbers guy and love this stuff. Six distinct values for StarPoints between $.01 and $.028+   takes some heavy calculation when you just toss the question out there. For me, what I'd be willing to pay per SP depends on whether or not I have a need/use for them. Right now, I'm flush with points all over the place, so I have no interest in purchasing more. My answer could be very different in a few months.



Thanks for input - This poll was an offshoot of the TPG placing a 2.7c/SP value (3x MR points) - which I think is way overpriced to buy, and wanted to get other's opinions. This poll was intended for current Buy price (which would be 'not interested' for you) without regard to number owned.  I agree that SP Buy depends on needs and how many one already has.  You wouldn't buy at 1c/SP if SPG offered? (which they wouldn't). I would - and convert to miles. I am passing on 35% discount (2.275c/SP) being offered to Robin.


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## dioxide45 (Dec 12, 2016)

DeniseM said:


> I tested it and 229 appears to be unique views, since I couldn't change the number by looking at it multiple times.


This is different than vBulletin. In the previous version of the forum, it was any and all views.


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## canesfan (Dec 12, 2016)

I finally voted. To be honest I really don't know what would price point would drive me to purchase. Below 2c but it would be an unique situation that would ever bring me to purchase vs just earn.


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## okwiater (Dec 13, 2016)

I just bought a large bucket of points for 1.9 cents apiece, but declined to purchase additional points for 2.1 cents apiece. My vote in this poll and in other threads has assigned a "floor value" of 2 cents per point. In other words, given my usage patterns, I feel comfortable that I will be able to redeem them on a regular basis for greater than 2 cents. Things may change in 2018 with the emergence of a combined SPG/MR rewards program, however.


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## PamMo (Dec 13, 2016)

Well,


DavidnRobin said:


> ...You wouldn't buy at 1c/SP if SPG offered? (which they wouldn't). I would - and convert to miles. I am passing on 35% discount (2.275c/SP) being offered to Robin.



OK, I'd JUMP at $.01!! (I did vote for 1.6<1.9c/SP as my limit, though.)


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## DavidnRobin (Dec 13, 2016)

It is challenging to create a poll on this topic that has multiple caveats, and why I tried to keep it as simple as possible without considerations to these caveats.  Really asking what one thinks that their price is for buying SPs (from SPG) based on their needs/views, and not that of others.
Thus, looking at a concensus view - which looks like somewhere just a bit lower than 2c/SP (albeit with low statistic).

Anyway - thanks to those that took time to think about this and voted.
Voting is still open for those that just saw this and want to input.


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## duke (Dec 13, 2016)

You may get quite a valid survey with the question of "how much would you SELL your StarPoints for?".


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## DavidnRobin (Dec 13, 2016)

duke said:


> You may get quite a valid survey with the question of "how much would you SELL your StarPoints for?".



Except that is truly variable and dependent on how much one paid for them - and that only SPG offers to sell SPs (3.5c/SP w/o discount).
Do you think that TPG placed a 2.7c/SP value as a Buy or Sell number? I think Buy...

Perhaps the question would be - what is your target usage value? (but that also depends on need...)

As a Sell price - all sorts of fuzzy math possible and followed by associated boasting (like when we stayed at Westin Paris that had a back-of-door price of $1200/nite for 5 nite stay that only cost 60K SPs in 2009 {brag} - not that I would ever spend that much cash/nite). VSE Sales depends on this use of fuzzy math - 1st class ticket for two to Rome and 5 nite stay at highest-end hotel (valued at $28,000) - they used these values on me as justification to buy more WPORV.


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## vacationtime1 (Dec 13, 2016)

DavidnRobin said:


> Perhaps the question would be - what is your target usage value? (but that also depends on need...)



That *is *my buy price -- less discounts for Vistana's unilateral right to devalue the currency, my personal circumstances including how many StarPoints I currently have and expect to use before they devalue them again, a time/money differential, and my desire to get a good deal.

Vistana's fuzzy math is totally irrelevant to me.  I would never pay $10K for a first class ticket to Rome or $1,600/night for a hotel room so I would never buy StarPoints based on Vistana's proposed usage; I would buy only for my anticipated usage.

Which is how I calculated my $0.02 worth of value.


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## Westnick (Jan 7, 2017)

Where do you buy star points? Is the price negotiable? What is the best way to use them?


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## dioxide45 (Jan 7, 2017)

Westnick said:


> Where do you buy star points? Is the price negotiable? What is the best way to use them?


You can buy them directly through SPG. The price is not negotiable, but they do sometimes run promotions where you can buy them at a discounted rate. I think also those that in the past bought developer Starwood weeks got certificates that allowed them to buy discounted StarPoints. Not sure if they still offer that under Vistana, but I doubt it would make sense to buy direct for that privilege.


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## DavidnRobin (Jan 7, 2017)

Right now they are discounting StarPoints - check out SPG.com -there is/was a promotion going on.

I got offered 30% off, and Robin got offered 35% - not taking it.
If I got 50% off (17.5c/SP) I would reconsider.
YMMV w/ or w/o fuzzy math regardless of methodogies or justifications of SP buy/spend.
How's that poll doing?


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## DavidnRobin (Dec 10, 2017)

Poll from 1 year ago.
Anyone want to add/change their vote?

WSJ Owners have offer to buy at 1.65c/SP.
The Point Guy put a value of 2.7c/SP.


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## Cornell (Dec 11, 2017)

For what it's worth, I'm a statistician who works in survey research and design.  Pricing related research is very difficult to conduct and get meaningful data for b/c respondents have a self-interest in lowering what they say they will spend on something.


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## bobpark56 (Dec 11, 2017)

Until the end of this month, I can buy up to 110,000 starpoints for 1.65 cents per point. I could then use those starpoints for airline tickets. Unfortunately, going that route would cost me more than paying cash for the airline tickets. Using the points for stays in hotels like Westin Palacio (Madrid) or Westin Valencia makes much more sense. Not sure I could say the same for stays in the US. I guess that says that 1.65 cents per point tests my upper limit.


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## VacationForever (Dec 11, 2017)

For me, buying directly from SPG, anything around 2.2 cents and under is good.  I convert my timeshare at as high as 3.2 to 4 cents per point but then I have too many timeshares and not enough time to use, so converting is still a good alternative.  I probably get back 3.3 to 4 cents per point in value when I convert to Marriott travel packages.


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## DavidnRobin (Dec 11, 2017)

Cornell said:


> For what it's worth, I'm a statistician who works in survey research and design.  Pricing related research is very difficult to conduct and get meaningful data for b/c respondents have a self-interest in lowering what they say they will spend on something.



I don't disagree, but as per thread - this came from TPG putting a 0.9 c/MP value that at a 3:1 conversion equals 2.7c/SP. (So I was indirectly calling BS on the TPG value... too high).

SPs are sold by SPG for 3.5c/SP at retail, and sometimes at 30% discount (or 35%/50% lottery).  Also, at a discount in buying Explorer packages, or as incentives (as bulk) for purchasing a VOI/Points from VSE.  In all of these cases - 1.65c/SP offered to WSJ Owners is less than these values - even for bulk package incentives and EP.  The only cheaper is using of the AMEX SPG card.

This poll was merely for a consensus on what an individual considers their value (to purchase).  I agree it would tend to the low side, but what is truly problematic is that the statistic is too low. Regardless, the 1.65c/SP offer happened to be in the range that had most votes based on the poll that was from 1 year ago (before this offer/discussion). It met my personal price point that I set years ago and I bought them because we had gotten low since we gave up the AMEX SPG (for Chase Sapphire) after Costco split.

The value of a SP to an individual is based on both the intrinsic and extrinsic factors - and importantly related on how many SPs that are already owned, and their potential for use (getting maximum value).  The use (sell) value is the harder one to quantify. The purchase is straight forward, the use (sell) value is the one with the fuzzy math involved - and certainly hordes of stories (boasts) of maximum value usage (usually ex-US - Europe/Asia).


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## DavidnRobin (Dec 11, 2017)

bobpark56 said:


> Until the end of this month, I can buy up to 110,000 starpoints for 1.65 cents per point. I could then use those starpoints for airline tickets. Unfortunately, going that route would cost me more than paying cash for the airline tickets. Using the points for stays in hotels like Westin Palacio (Madrid) or Westin Valencia makes much more sense. Not sure I could say the same for stays in the US. I guess that says that 1.65 cents per point tests my upper limit.



I converted SP to AA miles with 20% bonus. For 80K SPs I got 100K AA miles and then flew SJC to EWR 1st class (RT/NS) for 50K each. If using 1% as standard CC amount (such as AMEX) - those flights were fuzzily $400 each (bargain).  Then used SPs to stay at a Cat 6 in NYC (LPM) at 16K per nite ($160/nt no tax) that has an SPG discount rate of $450/nt (after tax). Not a great return on a SP value, but I would not pay $450 night so the SPs afforded us the ability to stay at a nice hotel in NYC.

We used up our SPs - so I bought more - for US usage - no ex-US plans. I may not have if we hadn't run low. We gave up AMEX SPG card so no way to accumulate - and conversion is often a poor deal (esp. WSJ-VGV).


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## okwiater (Dec 11, 2017)

VGV Plat+ can reach a conversion value of under 2 cents per point. Not an especially poor deal.

Also, anyone accumulating SPs on SPG AMEX is effectively valuing SPs at >=2 cents, since there are many 2% cash back cards, and a few even higher.


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## dioxide45 (Dec 14, 2017)

DavidnRobin said:


> I converted SP to AA miles with 20% bonus. For 80K SPs I got 100K AA miles and then flew SJC to EWR 1st class (RT/NS) for 50K each. If using 1% as standard CC amount (such as AMEX) - those flights were fuzzily $400 each (bargain).  Then used SPs to stay at a Cat 6 in NYC (LPM) at 16K per nite ($160/nt no tax) that has an SPG discount rate of $450/nt (after tax). Not a great return on a SP value, but I would not pay $450 night so the SPs afforded us the ability to stay at a nice hotel in NYC.
> 
> We used up our SPs - so I bought more - for US usage - no ex-US plans. I may not have if we hadn't run low. We gave up AMEX SPG card so no way to accumulate - and conversion is often a poor deal (esp. WSJ-VGV).


You really should have considered a Marriott Travel Package instead. For your 80K StarPoints, you could have converted them to Marriott Reward Points and had 240K MR points. Marriott Travel Packages start at 270,000 for 120,000 AA miles plus a seven night hotel certificate in a category 1-5 property. Of course a category 5 certificate wouldn't get you anywhere in NYC with Marriott, but for only 10,000 more StarPoints you could have got at least 20,000 more AA miles. Not sure if the bonus would have also applied there, if it did, you would have had even more AA miles. You could have thrown the hotel certificate away or upgraded it to a higher level by converting more StarPoints.


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## VacationForever (Dec 14, 2017)

dioxide45 said:


> You really should have considered a Marriott Travel Package instead. For your 80K StarPoints, you could have converted them to Marriott Reward Points and had 240K MR points. Marriott Travel Packages start at 270,000 for 120,000 AA miles plus a seven night hotel certificate in a category 1-5 property. Of course a category 5 certificate wouldn't get you anywhere in NYC with Marriott, but for only 10,000 more StarPoints you could have got at least 20,000 more AA miles. Not sure if the bonus would have also applied there, if it did, you would have had even more AA miles. You could have thrown the hotel certificate away or upgraded it to a higher level by converting more StarPoints.


Agree.  It also depends on whether DavidandRobin want to spend 7 nights at a hotel.  I do not believe they own Marriott timeshare which means 5 nights package is out.


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## dioxide45 (Dec 14, 2017)

VacationForever said:


> Agree.  It also depends on whether DavidandRobin want to spend 7 nights at a hotel.  I do not believe they own Marriott timeshare which means 5 nights package is out.


Correct, five night packages are not available to non owners, but the 270K price quoted is for a seven night category 5, so this would have been available to DavidandRobin. For them though, the hotel cert could have been a throw away and they still would have come out ahead.


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## VacationForever (Dec 14, 2017)

dioxide45 said:


> Correct, five night packages are not available to non owners, but the 270K price quoted is for a seven night category 5, so this would have been available to DavidandRobin. For them though, the hotel cert could have been a throw away and they still would have come out ahead.


True!


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## DavidnRobin (Dec 14, 2017)

dioxide45 said:


> You really should have considered a Marriott Travel Package instead. For your 80K StarPoints, you could have converted them to Marriott Reward Points and had 240K MR points. Marriott Travel Packages start at 270,000 for 120,000 AA miles plus a seven night hotel certificate in a category 1-5 property. Of course a category 5 certificate wouldn't get you anywhere in NYC with Marriott, but for only 10,000 more StarPoints you could have got at least 20,000 more AA miles. Not sure if the bonus would have also applied there, if it did, you would have had even more AA miles. You could have thrown the hotel certificate away or upgraded it to a higher level by converting more StarPoints.



Sorry for late response. Catching up.  Okw... Re: WSJ Plat+ conversion to SPs - it does come out at a good price (after the recent increase), but not as good as the SO that are associated (per normal MF cost).  Our Gold+ 2Bd TH went from 20K to 40K SPs (?) - for $2400 MF.  No thanks. Also - this is for us (YMMV and likely does...) 80% of our AMEX SPG usage was at 1% (Costco) - I use other cards for other things when the incentive is better, but that was relatively low %-wise.  So I use 1% for basis in making comparison.

As to my conversion being discussed... This had nothing to do with the recent WSJ 1.65c/SP offer, and before the recent Marriott offer.

To be clearer - I made this SP conversion to AA FF miles (w/ 20% bonus) in summer of 2016 following the AA promotion announcement - the AA reservations were made at the 331 day opening (iirc) for the recent Nov 2017 NYC trip.  At this point I reserved two 1st class seats for 50K each (100K total for the 80K SP conversion). Regardless, 100K miles is excellent for two 1st class tickets (RT) from SF Bay Area to NYC (SJC-EWR) nonstop - including at excellent departure/arrival times.  btw - the NJ Transit is an excellent and quick way to get to Penn Station.  $13pp

This NYC trip was to use up our SPs that were sitting around unused, and didn't want them to devalue. We also had enough (all from AMEX SPG) to use to stay in NYC at Le Parker Meridian (SPG Cat 6) at 20K/nite - 5th nite free - we stayed 6 notes actually, but that was because of the AA flight above.  I made this reservation right after AA FF mileage reservation.  We wanted to stay close to Central Park - loved the location on 56th (6-7th).  In looking at the SPG rate - it would be about $450/nite for same room.

The recently purchased SPs through the WSJ offer (1.65c/SP) was separate from our NYC trip.  We had used up our SPs on the NYC trip - so wanted enough for 5 nites at a 'big-city' quality hotel.  We may go back to NYC - we had a great time.  Not sure if I can find bargain on 1st class flight again like that....

Bottom-line... for around 180K SPs - 6 nites in Cat 6 NYC hotel and two 1st class NS RT SJC-EWR tickets (bonus: the flight was converted to Alaskan Air) - I am happy with that.  I have had better SP conversion for hotels (as many have...), but mostly ex-US stays.  We wanted to get rid of our SPs because our local stay (Westin Verasa Napa) had a large increase in SPs needed.  Most of our travel is to our TSs, and local hotel stays.  Now that I am retired, that will probably change.  We also have a large amount of CSR points (whatever they are called).

I will take a look at what Marriott offers with our newly acquired SPs. Thanks for the suggestion.


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## DavidnRobin (Apr 22, 2018)

So...

Now that SPs will be changed to MR points (@3:1) - does your opinion change on the value of a SP?

I bought the SPs offered for WSJ Owners at 1.65 c/SP.  My vote doesn’t change.

How about yours?


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## DonnaJ123 (Nov 21, 2018)

We own 2 weeks (bought resale for 18.5K and 20K resale) 2bdrm Of at WKORVN a couple years ago.
Today, We have gone thru a presentation at  wdw.  We purchased a eoy flex for 1 Bdrm premium for $10,450.  The only reason we purchased this is for the star points.  They gave us 120K on tour hotel points along with 165K explorer points for a total of 285K star points for free. They have offered us the option to buy 6 certificates for $2275 each giving us an additional 330,000 points per certificate. This would give us 1,980,000 certificate points for $13650 plus the free 285,000 points for a total of 2,265,000 starpoints.  We have plans to do extensive travel to Europe on the next 10 years and they said the points don’t expire.  My head is spinning..was this a good buy?


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## okwiater (Nov 21, 2018)

DonnaJ123 said:


> My head is spinning..was this a good buy?



No.


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## vacationtime1 (Nov 22, 2018)

DonnaJ123 said:


> My head is spinning..was this a good buy?



No.

It is an okay deal for the hotel points purchase -- if you are diligent about squeezing maximum value from them and if Marriott doesn't devalue them (again) before you use them.

It is an absolutely terrible deal for the Flex purchase.  Because Flex is voluntary, it is essentially valueless for resale purposes.  If you want StarOptions, buy a mandatory resort such as Kierland or Vistana Villages; you can get 81000 StarOptions for a small fraction of what you paid and your VOI will have some value when it's time to sell.


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## YYJMSP (Nov 22, 2018)

DonnaJ123 said:


> We purchased a eoy flex for 1 Bdrm premium for $10,450.  ... They have offered us the option to buy 6 certificates for $2275 each giving us an additional 330,000 points per certificate. This would give us 1,980,000 certificate points for $13650 plus the free 285,000 points for a total of 2,265,000 starpoints.  … was this a good buy?



there is no such thing as starpoints any more, just Marriott rewards points

if those points are worth the general consensus of 1c each, they have a value of $22650.  you will have paid $10450+13650 = $24100 for them, so you're already behind, and you still have committed to pay your additional yearly MFs on top of that...


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## Sicnarf (Nov 22, 2018)

YYJMSP said:


> there is no such thing as starpoints any more, just Marriott rewards points
> 
> if those points are worth the general consensus of 1c each, they have a value of $22650.  you will have paid $10450+13650 = $24100 for them, so you're already behind, and you still have committed to pay your additional yearly MFs on top of that...



You need to add the value of 1wk in a 1br premium which is about $2000, thus bringing the total value of the transaction to >$24100.  The value of MRPs though varies greatly depending on how it is utilized.  I just used MRPs for my daughter's honeymoon for 10 nights at St Regis Maldives flying business class from Chicago.  This single transaction saved me $13000+ compared to paying cash!  I've also saved a family $10000+ for a 10-night stay at Ritz Carlton Kapalua over Xmas and New Year.  

So DonnaJ123, DO NOT be dismayed from the responses from this thread since you'll get 2x or more value from your purchase if you use your 2M+ MRPs wisely (even with the recent devaluation). 

Sicnarf


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## DonnaJ123 (Nov 22, 2018)

Thank you for your kind and prompt replies.  I am still not sure if this is a great deal.  The only reason we bought was for these star point certificates.  Based on the deal they will cost .006c/starpoints.  We figured the 2+ million points would allow us to travel 5 times to Europe (we are based in Western Canada) flying business class with each trip giving us 14 nights in a 4star hotel.  We most likely won’t start using them until my husband retires in 4 years.

I’m not worried about that eoy ts purchase at WDW as we will utilize this and the mf’s are $400 per year.  We know we will have to give it away I. 20 years but will sacrifice this in order to save on the Europe travel...if the Europe is a good deal with these certificates.

I was sold star points but someone mentioned they are Marriott points which are valued less.  That is making me nervous.  Thanks for any forthcoming input you can contribute.


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## controller1 (Nov 22, 2018)

DonnaJ123 said:


> We have plans to do extensive travel to Europe on the next 10 years and they said the points don’t expire.



They lied.  The points will expire in 6 years.  All points received from Vistana, including purchased points, expire in six years.  When you look at the certificate allowing the purchase of the 330,000 points you will see in the T&C that they do expire.

The 6-year expiration is also noted in the T&C of the Marriott loyalty program.


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## DonnaJ123 (Nov 22, 2018)

Thank you for the valuable information!  I am concerned about the certificates expiring.  If my husband was retiring this year I would feel more comfortable but with the merger and the point values being unstable I will recind the offer.  I guess we just have to fax a sheet advising we are cancelling the offer with the agreement number on it?  If unsure I think it’s better to reconsider...there will always be another deal!

Do I need to return the Kindle they gave me to the sales office?


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## controller1 (Nov 22, 2018)

DonnaJ123 said:


> Thank you for the valuable information!  I am concerned about the certificates expiring.  If my husband was retiring this year I would feel more comfortable but with the merger and the point values being unstable I will recind the offer.  I guess we just have to fax a sheet advising we are cancelling the offer with the agreement number on it?  If unsure I think it’s better to reconsider...there will always be another deal!
> 
> Do I need to return the Kindle they gave me to the sales office?



Follow the rescission directions exactly as outlined in the sales agreement.  Exactly!


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## vacationtime1 (Nov 22, 2018)

controller1 said:


> Follow the rescission directions exactly as outlined in the sales agreement.  Exactly!



Very important that you follow those instructions exactly; read them carefully.  Everyone who signed the contract must sign the rescission letter.  Use the method of delivery required (which may be a fax).  But additionally, send the rescission letter by a method that generates a receipt so you can prove when you sent it.  Time is of the essence.


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## YYJMSP (Nov 22, 2018)

DonnaJ123 said:


> Thank you for your kind and prompt replies.  I am still not sure if this is a great deal.  The only reason we bought was for these star point certificates.  Based on the deal they will cost .006c/starpoints.  We figured the 2+ million points would allow us to travel 5 times to Europe (we are based in Western Canada) flying business class with each trip giving us 14 nights in a 4star hotel.  We most likely won’t start using them until my husband retires in 4 years.
> 
> I’m not worried about that eoy ts purchase at WDW as we will utilize this and the mf’s are $400 per year.  We know we will have to give it away I. 20 years but will sacrifice this in order to save on the Europe travel...if the Europe is a good deal with these certificates.
> 
> I was sold star points but someone mentioned they are Marriott points which are valued less.  That is making me nervous.  Thanks for any forthcoming input you can contribute.



Hi neighbour, I'm in Victoria, and have just booked out another Europe trip on points for next year, so I am uniquely qualified to tell you that you are severely overestimating what those points will get.

first, you were sold Marriott points.  Starpoints ceased to exist on Aug 18.  All existing balances were converted at 1:3 to Marriott points.  if these were 2 million StarPoints, we'd be saying something completely different...

second, you need to look at the hotel properties you anticipate staying in and price them out, along with the Aeroplan tickets.

Each Aeroplan ticket will run you 250,000 MR to convert to 100,000 Aeroplan (3:1 plus 20% effective bonus if transferred in the right amounts).  assuming 2 people for 15 nights (best use of 5th night free) and 200,000+ MR per 5 night stay at nice hotels (the top hotels are capped at 240,000 MR per 5 nights right now, but will increase to as much as 400,000 MR per 5 nights starting with bookings made sometime in 2019 as they remove the cap and introduce Category 8 and peak pricing), you're easily up to 1,100,000+ MR per trip, so i'm not sure where you are getting 5 trips from

I think you'll be lucky to get 2x 2week trips with the 2 million MR

our trip is 26 nights for 1 million MR, plus the business class Aeroplan tickets at the equivalent of 250,000 MR each...


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## DavidnRobin (Nov 22, 2018)

No.
And watch out for fuzzy math when putting a value on the points (SP or MRP).
Also, points devaluate quickly - so use them as they accumulate.
Do not hold onto them.
Rescind what you can - otherwise optimize.
Happy Thanksgiving 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## TravelTime (Nov 22, 2018)

Good point that points devalue and better to use them upfront. I have been accumulating Marriott Reward points but I should use them.


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## YYJMSP (Nov 22, 2018)

DavidnRobin said:


> Happy Thanksgiving



we ate our turkey a month ago for those of us north of your border...


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## DonnaJ123 (Nov 23, 2018)

Thanks again everyone for your valuable input.  A shout out to Victoria...we are from Edmonton. Tomorrow we are sending a fax as well as a letter to ensure that we are communicating timely that we wish to recind. We got caught up in the excitement of the starpoints and well...you all know the rest of the story.  We will continue to enjoy our WKORVN weeks and am happy and relieved that by doing our research ahead of time we purchased resale and enjoy the benefit of a wonderful locale!  This site is such a great resource for us to gain insight.  I felt nervous over our purchase yesterday and by reaching out to my fellow tuggers got the information I needed to make a better decision.  Thanks again everyone...and to our US tuggers...Happy Thanksgiving!


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## hintok (Dec 10, 2018)

I'm confused. I received this offer Dec 6th from Vistana -- because of my recent purchase of The Westin Desert Willow Villas, Palm Desert, I am eligible to purchase 330,000 points for $2,275, 150,000 points for $1,075, 90,000 points for $675.  I have until Dec 15 to say yes to this deal.   Is this a good price to pay?


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## rickandcindy23 (Dec 10, 2018)

The value of "starpoints" is not what it used to be.  Just as an example of my old use of Starpoints, it used to be 12K Starpoints for a night's stay at Swan or Dolphin, which is connected with Epcot and gets the same benefits as staying on an official Disney property.  Now those Marriott points are not just X 3, which would be 36K, they are* 50K *for the same stay.  Per night!  That is a horrible deal. 

If I pay my MF's for Marriott and Vistana resorts with my Chase Sapphire Reserve, I get 3X points.  A hotel room at the Swan or Dolphin is less than $300 per night.  That is 20K points per night (Chase Sapphire Reserve points are worth 1.5X), so a 6,700 spend on my CSR earns enough points to book the hotel through the CSR Portal.  

People report getting 6X points for their MF's with the Amex cards.  It would take a lot more spend for that same stay.  You need 50K points, so $8,333 spend to get the same night.  

There are times when the hotel costs more than $300 for the night (with taxes/fees), and then it might make sense.  

I have a huge number of Marriott Points after the merger.  Our plan was also to use them in Europe because as SPG points, they were valuable to me.  Now they are just points I have to figure out how to use wisely.  I think some Disneyland Marriott hotels might work for just the two of us.


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## Maui_ed (Dec 10, 2018)

rickandcindy23 said:


> I have a huge number of Marriott Points after the merger. Our plan was also to use them in Europe because as SPG points, they were valuable to me.


Are you saying the the points are no longer usable in Europe?


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## vacationtime1 (Dec 10, 2018)

Maui_ed said:


> Are you saying the the points are no longer usable in Europe?



They are still usable in Europe -- and with many more choices because Marriott hotels are now available.

But they have devalued the "currency", as Cindy points out in the first paragraph of her post #49.


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## zsn (Dec 17, 2018)

hintok said:


> I'm confused. I received this offer Dec 6th from Vistana -- because of my recent purchase of The Westin Desert Willow Villas, Palm Desert, I am eligible to purchase 330,000 points for $2,275, 150,000 points for $1,075, 90,000 points for $675.  I have until Dec 15 to say yes to this deal.   Is this a good price to pay?



The deadline has been extended to 21st, at least according to the email I received. The cents/point varies from 0.75 cents to 0.69 cents for the 90k to 330k points respectively. Also wondering if I should do this....this would put the point value, with the 3:1 conversion, to somewhere between 2.25 cents to 2.17 cents. My rule of thumb for the old SPG was about 1.5 cents (great value for acquiring) to 2 cents (for redemption)....so it seems like a wash (at best)/not good value (especially at the lower end)?


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## hintok (Dec 17, 2018)

zsn said:


> The deadline has been extended to 21st, at least according to the email I received. The cents/point varies from 0.75 cents to 0.69 cents for the 90k to 330k points respectively. Also wondering if I should do this....this would put the point value, with the 3:1 conversion, to somewhere between 2.25 cents to 2.17 cents. My rule of thumb for the old SPG was about 1.5 cents (great value for acquiring) to 2 cents (for redemption)....so it seems like a wash (at best)/not good value (especially at the lower end)?



I was going to buy the larger point package of 330k points, but when he said they would expire in 6 years, I bought the 90k package for $675.  I already have over 500k points in my account last time I looked.


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## Ken555 (Dec 17, 2018)

hintok said:


> I was going to buy the larger point package of 330k points, but when he said they would expire in 6 years, I bought the 90k package for $675.  I already have over 500k points in my account last time I looked.



For perspective, the Marriott redemption rates can consume points much faster than Starwood. 500k can easily vanish with a single trip, depending on which hotel you choose. 

Even so, I think buying at these rates is not advised, unless you know you will use them at a hotel with higher cash rates (and you wee willing to spend it).


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## controller1 (Dec 17, 2018)

Ken555 said:


> For perspective, the Marriott redemption rates can consume points much faster than Starwood. 500k can easily vanish with a single trip, depending on which hotel you choose.
> 
> Even so, I think buying at these rates is not advised, unless you know you will use them at a hotel with higher cash rates (and you wee willing to spend it).
> 
> ...



I purchased some earlier this year at $0.0069/point. I regularly am able to redeem at $0.01-$0.015/point and have had redemptions exceeding $0.035/point.

I will not use them unless I'm able to receive 1 cent per point of value.


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## LobsterHunter (Dec 17, 2018)

There are some good properties for redemption values if you act/book before Dec 31.  I've never bought points before, but did buy the 330,000 point package for $2,275.  Gave us enough points for a 5 night stay at St. Regis Maldives (240k points before it goes to Cat 8 on 1/1/19), least expensive room if prepaid is $8,630 for the 5 nights and 5 nights at St. Regis Gritti Palace in Venice (same 240k points) with a pre-paid rate of over 5,000 Euros ($5,600).  The included Platinum breakfasts & upgrades, make it an even better deal.  Would be a tough decision to purchase these points after they go to Cat 8 and the same stay could cost 400k points in high season.


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## Ken555 (Dec 17, 2018)

controller1 said:


> I purchased some earlier this year at $0.0069/point. I regularly am able to redeem at $0.01-$0.015/point and have had redemptions exceeding $0.035/point.
> 
> I will not use them unless I'm able to receive 1 cent per point of value.



Um...yeah. That’s my point. Those are good redemption values, even though they’re harder to find these days than previously.


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