# DVC... whats the big deal?



## jc92869 (Nov 1, 2012)

In browsing I noticed a lot of threads about DVC. All repeatedly stated how hard it is to book an exchange there. I've never stayed at one and don't know what the big fuzz about them is. Do you get free entrance to the park if you stay at one? Is it much different than staying at. Anyother 5 star resort? Or is it just that people are willing to pay more just because of the name brand?


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## Vacationsarefun (Nov 1, 2012)

Well, I think one reason is that you get similar perks to guests staying at a regular Disney hotel e.g. Magical Express for transfer from airport, regular transportation between resort and parks, ability to buy the dining plan if you would like, etc. Depending on personal preferences (e.g. whether you plan on renting a car) these perks can be important or not.

The second reason is that the DVC resorts offer the "Disney Magic". Now, some people don't "get" the magic and for them Disney is just another amusement park. In which case staying at a DVC resort or Disney hotel probably isn't much better than staying at any other nice place in the area. However, the Disney resorts do offer the typical "magic" for those that do "get it" e.g. themed resorts, employees that often go the extra mile etc.


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## elaine (Nov 1, 2012)

We do not care about extra hours in the parks, but we do like taking ME from the airport, and being able to take buses everywhere and not drive--I drive all the time at home in suburb of metro area. My teens can take a bus to DTD or stay later in a park and take the bus back to DVC, which gives them a more freedom. We like the kids clubs to do crafts, etc. I like the drink mugs--LOL! DH just feels "special" staying there.
Prior to DVC, we stayed 10 years off and on for WDW trips at other places, OLCC, Marriotts, HGVC, Vistana. All were very nice and we had wonderfual trips---we just prefer DVC. Elaine


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## rhonda (Nov 1, 2012)

I think that DVC is something you either "get" or "don't get."  Some folks want to never leave the immersive Disney experience and others prefer to get away (retreat to off-property) at the end of each day.

DVC allows the guest to remain fully surrounded in the Disney experience for the entire length of stay.  You arrive and don't leave the property, never even wander near a border, until you must drag yourself away return home.

When visiting the DVC properties at WDW, the Disney experience might start as soon as you exit the airplane. Just navigate from airplane to the Magical Express busses and be whisked to the resort.  No need to address the routine, hum-bug, process of retrieving your luggage -- Magical Express will gather those for you and deliver them to your room.  Once checked-in at the resort, your room key might be "everything you need" as it could secure:  room access, pool access, park access, dining credits, charging privileges, parking access, etc.  During your stay you won't require a car as Disney's onsite transportation will take you everywhere you "need to go" (w/in the Disney borders) by bus, monorail or water craft.  At the end of your visit, DVC brings you and your luggage right back to the airport.  Good chance your flight boarding passes and luggage check-in were addressed while still on Disney property.  Swell!

All the above plus features such as:
* Early/late access to parks when offered exclusively to Disney resort guests
* Package delivery to your room (for when you can't carry all that loot you've purchased in the parks?)
* Mickey-voiced wake up calls?
* etc.

It simply creates an envelope you never have to leave ... until you must l-e-a-v-e.


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## rhonda (Nov 1, 2012)

More:  and, fwiw, some of the resorts and room-types are pretty special, too.  How many other timeshares offer an African savanna right outside your balcony?  Or a treehouse experience?  Or view of the World-of-Color from your living room?  Or a pool table in your unit?

Wow, to read all this one might think I really like DVC.    Phew!  Glad I own a few points!  I'm talking myself into another trip!  (Sigh, I recently canceled my Treehouse for next Month due to Fed Jury Duty.)


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## Beaglemom3 (Nov 1, 2012)

I like the early hour opening(s) and love the local Disney bus system that will take you from park to park or hotel to hotel.

Also, I like the quality of the resorts and being in the "midst of it all".

But, that's just me. I could be wrong.  


So, no _*fuss*_, just, maybe, a stronger preference and no, there is no free admittance included.

Late ETA: I just thought of something...... for me, it may capture (recreate) those feelings I had as a kid on Sunday night watching "The Walt Disney Show" in my PJs and having that as a "feel good" memory that Disney recreates for me once again. Illusion or not (and perception is one's reality for the most part) I'll take a "warm fuzzy" where I can get it.


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## chalee94 (Nov 1, 2012)

jc92869 said:


> In browsing I noticed a lot of threads about DVC. All repeatedly stated how hard it is to book an exchange there. I've never stayed at one and don't know what the big fuzz about them is. Do you get free entrance to the park if you stay at one?



no free entrance/tickets.

but one of the resorts does offer giraffes/zebras outside your balcony.

another is a 10 minute walk to the magic kingdom.  a couple of others are a short walk from epcot center.

even the DVC resorts that are not within walking distance of a theme park have a little boat ride to downtown disney shopping area.

but either you are a disney nut or it's not your thing...and it's fairly expensive if it's not your thing.


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## timeos2 (Nov 1, 2012)

jc92869 said:


> In browsing I noticed a lot of threads about DVC. All repeatedly stated how hard it is to book an exchange there. I've never stayed at one and don't know what the big fuzz about them is. Do you get free entrance to the park if you stay at one? Is it much different than staying at. Anyother 5 star resort? Or is it just that people are willing to pay more just because of the name brand?



Back in the early days there were real benefits and great units - equal in size and features to most upper scale timeshares that abound in Orlando - but that ended about 5-7 years in. Since then they build sub-standard sized units, under equip them but have a theme surrounding them (only a few top units get the internal theme in the units themselves - most are barely fancy hotel rooms with a themed lobby & corridors).  The "magic" is as fake as the theme and if you look close you are paying a BIG premium for virtually no value. You do far better at the many nice resorts outside "the gates'. 

Some swear those many of us who don't find it appealing or a value of not getting it.  It is more that those that want to be hornswaggled  into believing that it's "special" fit very well with the same crowd that thinks full price timeshares are a good value. (A few have learned resale but still like DVC. Those are the real exceptions). 

Disney does a fair job today of creating an illusion - one they used to be the very best at. Now their focus is making money - not customer experience as it was when Walt /Roy ran things as a labor of love not a corporation they are now.  It's still nice but a mere shadow of it's heyday and not worth a penny to us to partake in.  We will go for free whan we can but thats it. We "get it" It is a waste of money. YMMV.


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## chriskre (Nov 1, 2012)

jc92869 said:


> In browsing I noticed a lot of threads about DVC. All repeatedly stated how hard it is to book an exchange there. I've never stayed at one and don't know what the big fuzz about them is. Do you get free entrance to the park if you stay at one? Is it much different than staying at. Anyother 5 star resort? Or is it just that people are willing to pay more just because of the name brand?



No it's not the name brand although that helps I'm sure, it's a whole culture of Disney fanatics.  You either "get it" or you don't.  Nothing wrong with you if you don't get it, just means more ex-ops for those of us who do.  

I spent 30 years staying off site for the most part with occasional on site stays and although there are some beautiful resorts off site having to drive kind of takes away from the whole experience.  

I just got back from a nice stay at Wyn Cypress Palms.  Our room was as nice if not nicer than a Disney resort two bedroom lock off but it's in Kissimmee and  all that comes with staying in that area which isn't so hot.  
It's fine for the price I was willing to pay but definitely missing the "magic". 

I think if you are only going on a once in a lifetime trip to Disney or rarely visit then you should try to stay onsite if possible.  If you go as often as I do which is about 4 or 5 times a year then I don't need the immersion every single time.
I do like to at least stay onsite at least once a year though.  The rest of the times slumming at Bonnet Creek will do.


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## geekette (Nov 1, 2012)

I don't get it, never did.  watched WWWD as a kid but that was stories, no magic happening at my house.  visited most amusement parks in teh country, not Disney (I didn't go to Fl until I was high school or so).  Mom didn't like that Disney required ride tickets vs GA for other parks, and Florida was a long haul.  I never had any big hankering for The Mouse, didn't get jealous when other kids went.  It never really did anything for me.

I blame my parents who reminded me frequently that I was absolutely not living in fantasy land.


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## rhonda (Nov 1, 2012)

geekette said:


> i blame my parents who reminded me frequently that i was absolutely not living in fantasy land.


{{ hugs }}


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## Beaglemom3 (Nov 1, 2012)

geekette said:


> I don't get it, never did.  watched WWWD as a kid but that was stories, no magic happening at my house.  visited most amusement parks in teh country, not Disney (I didn't go to Fl until I was high school or so).  Mom didn't like that Disney required ride tickets vs GA for other parks, and Florida was a long haul.  I never had any big hankering for The Mouse, didn't get jealous when other kids went.  It never really did anything for me.
> 
> I blame my parents who reminded me frequently that I was absolutely not living in fantasy land.



  It's never too late to get in touch with your "Inner Minnie". 

  I am 60 and those Sunday TV nights were special at our house. Disney and The Ed Sullivan Show were our weekly treats. We had to be in our PJs with teeth brushed and weekend homework assignment (if any) done. It was a tradition that I still treasure. My parents were no "Ozzie & Harriet", far from it, but this was our special treat.


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## vacationhopeful (Nov 1, 2012)

Disney is a cultural icon for anyone who was a kid during the 1950-1965 era via the "Wonderful World of Disney" on Sunday nights. There were no endless video/film of Vietnam, peace marches, riots in the inner cities, sit-ins, etc. Times might have been viewed via "Rose colored glasses" - that was the world we understood. Was it a fairy tale? 

All I know, I looked back on those times with warm fuzzies - I rode my bike miles from my house, rode my neighbor's horses without lawyers & their release forms and signed parental permission slips and knew my grandparents would have tea & cookies at 4PM every day. 

So the little kid in me - is happy to shake Mickey's hand, talk to Fairies in their Tutu's (and wonder how a 30-45yo woman can tell anyone she gets paid to be a fairy) and be goofy with Goofie (and know one of them is my electrician's grown son).


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## Passepartout (Nov 1, 2012)

A little Disney 'Magic' goes some distance for me. Every few years, we like to exchange into Anaheim or Orlando. We enjoy a few days in the parks, but at the end of the day, I want to get away from it. I know that that's just me, and there are those who just can't get enough. So be it. 'Taint me.

Jim


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## Free2Roam (Nov 1, 2012)

Nice thread... I thought it was just me who didn't "get it".  

We've done the theme parks...never the entire Disney experience.  It was "special" the first time when everybody came home happily wearing mouse ears. But since the first visit, I'm usually "all Disney-ed out" after just a few hours in the park... I couldn't imagine being completely immersed in Disney for days on end.  When my kids were young they enjoyed the mouse, but as they got older (even before their teen years) they preferred Universal Studios and other non-Disney forms of entertainment.  

Truthfully, I'm not really a big fan of Orlando... I prefer South Florida.  But when I do go to Orlando, I try to avoid Disney as much as possible.


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## jmpellet (Nov 2, 2012)

There is nothing like leaving your hotel room, passing by the themed pool with tons of activities being offered by enthusiastic cast members, and walking a short distance to the entrance of Epcot or taking a short boat ride to the Studios.  Upon your return, the boardwalk is full of life with entertainers that your kids could watch for hours.  

Yes, the rooms are likely not as big or luxurious as offsite but the overall theming that Disney has perfected along with not having to drive, makes it worth it for many people.  That's the magic -- some feel it and some don't.  I'm going to see if that magic extends to Hilton Head Island this April!


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## Nahanni (Nov 2, 2012)

jc92869 said:


> In browsing I noticed a lot of threads about DVC. All repeatedly stated how hard it is to book an exchange there. I've never stayed at one and don't know what the big fuzz about them is. Do you get free entrance to the park if you stay at one? Is it much different than staying at. Anyother 5 star resort? Or is it just that people are willing to pay more just because of the name brand?



I believe (not an RCI member so I have no experience) that part of the excitement of getting an DVC exchange is the "value" compared to the MF of their trade.

A summer week 2BR DVC costs a member about $1500-1800 in MF, can be rented from a member/broker $3000-3500 or from Disney at $4500+. 

By comparison, a nice offsite can be rented privately for less than $1000 or even from the operator (we got Vistana Villages brand new unit for $119/night through Sheraton last summer).

So, for an exchange I think I would do the leg work or be patient for a DVC unit.  But when we're out of DVC points, out of pocket means we stay off site (and do a mostly non-Disney trip, still 2-3 park days:hysterical.


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## Renny30 (Nov 2, 2012)

FreeIn2010 said:


> Nice thread... I thought it was just me who didn't "get it".



I love Orlando but actually prefer IOA and Universal Studios. I'm actually more impressed with Dr. Seuss Land.  I guess I don't recognize magic when I see it, because the pixie dust does nothing for me.


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## stanleyu (Nov 2, 2012)

REALLY nice hearing from those who "don't get it". Bless you all. Do YOUR thing, whatever it is. Avoid the Mouse if you want. Go for it!

More room for those of us who do "get it".


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## SOS8260456 (Nov 2, 2012)

I really do think it is a matter of "getting it" or not.  As I think all things that people love/enjoy can be a matter of "getting it" or not.

I personally don't get mountain vacations.  For me its the beach (after Disney, of course).  But I hate mountain vacations and my friends/relatives who love mountain getaways don't understand why I don't "get it" about how relaxing they are.  The same with the beach.  Some people don't get why we will pay extra to either be ocean front or ocean view.

The one thing I never understood in life is the need to knock those people who enjoy the whole Disney experience.  I never hear it as bad towards people who love hunting, or mountain vacations or fishing, or sports or whatever rocks a persons boat.  Even movie fans don't get knocked down as much as Disney fans do.  Harry Potter, Twilight, Star Wars, Trekies, Shades of Grey.  If you say you are an absolute fan of all things Harry Potter, most people will say "Oh, that's nice."  But say you are a Disney fan.........

I also totally resent the comment about comparing people who see the value of staying onsite vs offsite to people who get sucked in at timeshare presentations.  I felt it was a very ignorant comment.  As with everything else, one should run the numbers.  

We have quite a few Orlando trips under our belt (no where near as many as others) and have stayed at quite a few different ones from Sunterra/Diamond, Marriots, Vistana and, of course, Wyndhams.  We have enjoyed all of our stays.  Due to personal preference, we also would rather stay onsite, and back when the same unit could get us either an onsite resort or an offsite resort, it was a no brainer for us.

Now when we can easily see the cost, it is easier to run the numbers and determine if it is worth it.  We are at a time in our lives when our party tends to split up alotand I have health issues that require the use of a scooter.  So for us there is value in staying onsite and we are willing to pay that premium.  This may change when we do trips where there will be multiple cars/drivers and when I do trips that guarantee that I have someone to load/unload the scooter from our vehicle.  On trips like that the value of staying onsite may not be as great for us.

I guess I just dont get why Disneyholics always get a bum wrap.


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## Bourne (Nov 2, 2012)

Each year, the 1-2 week escape to Disney during midwest spring lights up the faces of the little ones. To me, that alone is priceless. Going there every year since the two were born and will continue to do so till they say no.


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## timeos2 (Nov 2, 2012)

SOS8260456 said:


> I guess I just dont get why Disneyholics always get a bum wrap.



As a (now saved) former DVC owner I see the reverse. It seems those with Disney eyes think the majority of the world is somehow wrong because they don't find Disney to be all that enticing. They look down on the mere peons who refuse to pay the outrageous prices that "the magic" often demands. 

Face it - there is nothing special about being an owner there. Anyone who has the money to spend can have one - most of the world does not as they either can't afford it or don't want it.  There is nothing wrong with loving Disney - we've been there - but I find that we burned out on it long ago and now don't even see it as inviting as Universal.  We continue our annual passes there for nearly a decade - Disney we may visit for a few hours if we can get in free or low cost. A few hours of drivel over & over in song, sights & cost is about all I can stand of that now. I do agree 100% that is is a totally different experience when you take along a child. But they too grow up & our's today find Disney to be a yawn while other parks - especially Universal - still have a big draw for them. YMMV.


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## chriskre (Nov 2, 2012)

stanleyu said:


> REALLY nice hearing from those who "don't get it". Bless you all. Do YOUR thing, whatever it is. Avoid the Mouse if you want. Go for it!
> 
> More room for those of us who do "get it".


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## Renny30 (Nov 2, 2012)

The DVC board was not the best place for this. It is the Disney fan's space.


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## jc92869 (Nov 2, 2012)

*point taken.*



Renny30 said:


> The DVC board was not the best place for this. It is the Disney fan's space.



You just may be right about that. 

It seems that there is a wide gap between the fans and the non- fans.

for me, this thread has answered my question.  I was very curious about why the DVC's were in such high demand. it seems that some people like disney and are willing to pay the premium for it; and that is just fine. 

There are other things that some people are willing to pay more  simply for how it makes them feel-Purses, shoes, Apple products-. My thought is : If you can afford it, and it makes you feel good, GO FOR IT.


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## MichaelColey (Nov 3, 2012)

Off site, you can get bigger, nicer units for quite a bit less.  So it's a trade off between that and the Disney magic.

Exchanging into DVC (if you have a cheap trader), you get all the Disney magic (all the on site perks and unique experiences others have already mentioned) for a reasonable surcharge.  (For me, it generally costs about an extra $300-$400 per week.)

Buying (or renting) DVC points to stay on site, it's a HUGE surcharge (over $2000 per week more for a 2BR).  To me, it's not worth THAT price.

I think part of it for me is that I have excellent traders and typically go off season, always go for a 2BR and often stay several weeks, so a nice off site location is typically $300-$400 per week, a DVC exchange is typically $600-800, and renting from a DVC owner would be $3,000+.  For those with more expensive traders or those willing to stay in smaller units, the dynamics change.


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## happybaby (Nov 3, 2012)

We just returned for a disney trip and stayed at WBC and the kids at OLCC

 Being at WBC was just like being on disney property but without all the disney perks such as extra hours, dining plan etc.
We had transportation at WBC but we chose not to use it.  Too hard getting ev1 together to meet the shuttle schedule.

Besides we had the scooter for my mom and the end of the week dh and I had each one for 3 days continuos in the park.  
We loaded them in our rented dodge caravan.  Yep all 3 fit in there with 7 passengers!!!

Scooters were alot cheaper renting off site from K and M.  Also the bellhops at WBC would help you if you needed help loading and unloading.   We only asked them the day we dropped off my moms scooter.  Went directly to the bell hops and they helped dh take it out of the van and assemble it.

We ate at Disney Restaurants (*Flying Fish, Fultons crab house and Portabello) but we were also free to eat snacks at the condos on off days and at Universal.  Epcot food festival was samples all day so  the dining plan would probably have been wasted a few days if on site and purchased it.

Maybe some day we will try an on site resort.  Only stayed at Movies in a small hotel room with 5 of us several years ago to give us an extra day before going to Hilton at Seaworld.  Never used the pool at movies.  Was there to sleep and get up and go again

When the girls drove to WBC from OLCC they thought they were on disney property just passing all the signs for the parks and resorts.  I also think WBC was bigger!!


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## geekette (Nov 3, 2012)

rhonda said:


> {{ hugs }}



Thank you, that's very sweet!   The folks were wise to rein me in as I am too much a free spirit.  There has always been, and will always be, Play in me.  

I was a Sesame Street kid.  It was on 3 times a day when I was pre-k before we left nj.  Also a giant fan of Snoopy, played him in travelling school play.  I have my fake childhood friends, too.  

The weekend Disney show mostly wrapped stories under Disney's name, so I had more attachment to Walt than Mickey.  Well, heh, Kurt Russell was a draw, too.


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## bnoble (Nov 5, 2012)

> I think that DVC is something you either "get" or "don't get." Some folks want to never leave the immersive Disney experience and others prefer to get away (retreat to off-property) at the end of each day.


I think this sums it up very nicely.  The units themselves are really not that great.  Many of them are downright small, and not particularly well-appointed.  But, the little conveniences of having an integrated vacation experience can be very nice.



> Scooters were alot cheaper renting off site from K and M. Also the bellhops at WBC would help you if you needed help loading and unloading.


This is possible at a DVC resort as well; I saw a *lot* of people with third-party scooters at Beach Club this past week.


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## kanerf (Dec 21, 2012)

I have a small DVC package that lets me rent a unit every 3 years.  I also have been able to trade RCI points into units.  I have stayed on property 3 times and quite enjoyed it.  The idea that you can go to one of the parks on the bus or walk into Epcot from Beach Club or Boardwalk is quite relaxing.  You can go into the park for a few hours and then back to your unit during the heat of the day and back out at night when it cools down.  Much more relaxing that spending the whole day in the park and then the zoo of the parking lot or off-site resort buses.

The units are not as nice as what I get at HGVC, but you know what they say, location, location, location.


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## Culli (Dec 23, 2012)

We own great traders that get into DVC and also DVC pts.  We go 2-3 times a year including a wife and I on an adult only trip.  It goes beyond it being a Disney "Cartoon" or whatever theme it is tying everything togehter.  We are not Vegas people, I like to gamble some but the wife not at all, I'm pretty active and the wife doesn't mind but likes to relax, Disney gives us a great compromise.  We find Disney does making you feel like living in a "different" world better than anyone.  They tie everything together better than anyone that allows us to just "unplug" from the real world.  I have a fairly stressful job (or at least it feels like, and I'm sure most of us do!) and Disney allows all that to go away for awhile  Our favoirite is hanging out at EPCOT in the countries especially durring food and wine festival.  You go to Vegas and the theme is great then you look to the right or left and none of it ties in....and of course the great "card flippers" that annoy you up and down the strip.

Also for my widowed Mom it is works out great.  She gets to snowbird for a few weeks and makes me feel comfortable that she will  be as safe as anywhere else I can think of her going.  She will sometimes bring one of our kids for awhile with her.  She doesn't have to drive, the ME brings her to the resort and brings her back to the airport with no worries.  She knows how to get around WDW and loves seeing new things, everyone for the most part is very nice.

Disney is not all we do, for instance right now we are skiing for the week.  In the summer we take the kids camping, mountan biking and out on the canoe.  However, the kids love Disney...best of both worlds as we get some nice pools and resorts while easy access to the parks.  

I agree the rooms are not that great compared to other high end TS units...but they are not a 10 min walk to EPCOT, MK or DTD.  We have done Easter and Halloween at Disney and at least at the DVC (deluxe/hotels) they had a nice deal for the kids.

So for us it goes a little beyond "getting it or not getting it" it also provides a way that fits how we (including my Mom) wants to vacation.  I'm not blinded by the Disney Customer Service etc, hey it is about the almighty buck and for us we feel we get the value for our buck.  With that said, I wouldn't do it if I had to pay full price.  We use our DVC pts as add ons to our RCI trades (use to be II trades) to make it a 10-12 day stay.  Going and staying at the world....well it just completely relaxes me.  No other place I have been can I say that about, it is just a worry free vacation for our family.  We know how and when to get around and hit the parks so even durring peak times we don't have a problem.


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## itradehilton (Dec 24, 2012)

I agree that DVC rooms are not the best units themselves ( a little on the small side) but we enjoy DW at a very relaxed pace. We do not go at a commando pace. We stop and enjoy the surroundings. But most importantly it is one place where we can go that completely caters to my DS's diet. He has Celiac and in DW he can eat without worrying whether  or not he will get sick. That may not seem like much to some people but watching my child just enjoy a vacation is monumental.


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## stoler527 (Dec 25, 2012)

We bought DVC points in 1992 and kept them until 2001. There IS something special about staying on world at DVC. You can spend your entire vacation without entering the real world. We loved it!! Unfortunately, changes were made in the annual passes. We would go three times in a calendar year and then not go for 6 or 8 months and then go 3 times again. This allowed us to get the maximum bang for our buck on park admission. When renewal had to occur without a hiatus, we bailed. We bought into Marriott at that time. We missed the magic of staying on world, didn't have nearly as good a time, and began going to other places. We went to Hawaii, Europe, Palm Springs, Vegas, etc. Lately we have returned to Disney a couple of times and stayed off world at Marriott. We no longer wish that we were staying on world. At first we were afraid that we would miss the dining plan. We used to really enjoy eating a sit down dinner in the parks. On a recent visit, when we ate at a couple of restaurants without the plan, we didn't have a good time. The restaurants were very crowded and noisy, the food was VERY overpriced, and we were made to feel like second class citizens. The staff kept asking if we were on the dining plan and responded with a contemptuous, oh..., when we told them again that we were not. We ended up eating a lot of our meals off world because we didn't want the hassle of required reservations, overpriced food, and a bad experience. When we owned at DVC we never ate off world.
In the 2013 Unofficial Guide to WDW, it said that a new proposal has been made to give fast passes based on where you are staying. Grand Floridian would get the most, with those people staying off world getting only 1 a day. I don't know how true this is, but it would mean that we would skip Disney in future. If I am paying the same admission as someone at GF, I would expect the same perks.


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## timeos2 (Dec 25, 2012)

Your story nearly mirrors ours. Back in the 80's early 90's it was heresy (to us) to have anyone say being at Disney - on site - wasn't heaven on earth. But we changed and more importantly it seems the whole focus of Disney changed from making the guest experience the most important thing in the world to how much can they make and how many ways can they find to milk every last dollar from the guests. They also insisted on operating everything - even areas they clearly have no business trying to be in such as dining - rather than have any other group supply a superior experience but also make a few of those dollars. It wasn't that way under Walt but today it is the very definition of a greedy and profit driven corporation. 

We prefer to travel to the real places rather than the Disney remakes and find we get far better value now. Whereas we didn't want to be anywhere but Disney in 1990 today we actually avoid anything Disney as much as we possibly can.  We "get it" we just really really don't "want it" anymore.


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## vacationhopeful (Dec 25, 2012)

Disney for independent adult travelers (single or a couple with older kids) can be boring. But MOST families are NOT as experienced or adventure-some as TUGGERS. The size and expense of WDW trip is hugh. When you need a GPS to FIND your way around and you are spending a boatload of your after tax income in a week, you want it to be perfect. 

And as far as Disney trying to pull every possible dollar of profit (i.e. by running the dining operations), Disney has always been a "closed shop" environment whether it is movies or theme parks or dining on site. Maybe, someday, they will see the "profit without overhead" of a Subway store --- right now they know what sells for the most profit in the square footage of a "gift" shop in 1/2 the space of a home attached single car garage.


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## BocaBum99 (Dec 25, 2012)

timeos2 said:


> But we changed and more importantly it seems the whole focus of Disney changed from making the guest experience the most important thing in the world to how much can they make and how many ways can they find to milk every last dollar from the guests.



I think you are completely wrong about this statement.  Disney hasn't changed.  It has ALWAYS care about controlling the Guest Experience AND figuring out how they can milk every last dollar from guests.   That is the way it is now and how it has always been.


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## BocaBum99 (Dec 25, 2012)

I don't understand why we get into such arguments all the time about whether or not Disney is worth it.  For some it is, for others it isn't.  However, there is absolutely no doubt that the Disney Magic is real for many people and it is extreme.

For me, it's worth about double.  For others it's worth 3-4 times as much as the alternatives.  Just look at the analysis I did for Grand Californian.   Disney has done a great job at creating an experience that guests are willing to pay a supreme premium to get.

I go to Disney when I can get it at a cost below my willingness to pay threshold.  That happens when it comes up in RCI or when I can get a great deal on a purchase or rental.  

The big deal about Disney is that they have created a product that people love.  It integrates with their overall Disney experience and it lets them escape, if only for a moment, from their current lives and allows them to fantasize about being a kid again with all the wonders that childhood entails.  That is what Disney is all about.


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## gpurtz (Dec 25, 2012)

If you're a Disney nut (defined any way you want) and you have stayed at a DVC resort, I don't think you would want to stay elsewhere.  Owning points gives you vacation planning flexibility that an exchange into DVC will not.  If you're not a Disney nut I can understand why you may not understand the hoopla.  We've enjoyed each and every one of our 20+ DVC vacations.


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## timeos2 (Dec 25, 2012)

BocaBum99 said:


> I think you are completely wrong about this statement.  Disney hasn't changed.  It has ALWAYS care about controlling the Guest Experience AND figuring out how they can milk every last dollar from guests.   That is the way it is now and how it has always been.



Maybe this comes from those that never got to enjoy Disney back when they weren't just about income and were in what turned out to be the heyday of Disneyland & Disney World. They used to have third party vendors in the parks & supplying top quality items at far more reasonable prices, the park prices were much more affordable as a percentage of income and 90% of the experience was included in the base cost - 10% or less were optional and few were key to the guest having the full Disney experience. The characters weren't costly figures at some bad, horribly overpriced theme restaurant but were available at the rides in the park on a regularly scheduled basis. There were no "fast passes" (what a misnomer - there is nothing fast about it).  Every guest was made to feel they alone were th mst important in the park. No need to stay at inferior sized and again horribly overpriced Disney lodging suffering through Disney TV channels 24/7. They used to have the leading edge of technology & ride experiences - some are still great today (Haunted House, Country Bears, the pre-tamed Space Mountain that used to be a real roller coaster to name a few). Now that crown has passed to Universal and Disny has more failures than successes over the past couple decades. 

The Disney of today has little but the name in common with the superb operation of 20-30 years ago. If you had that experience it is sad to pay 10 times more for so much less today. We don't need it.


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## timeos2 (Dec 25, 2012)

gpurtz said:


> If you're a Disney nut (defined any way you want) and you have stayed at a DVC resort, I don't think you would want to stay elsewhere.  Owning points gives you vacation planning flexibility that an exchange into DVC will not.  If you're not a Disney nut I can understand why you may not understand the hoopla.  We've enjoyed each and every one of our 20+ DVC vacations.



We were early DVC owners & loved it! Then they started down the "our way or highway & you'll pay what we demand" road and lost us forever. The "DVC Penalty & the disastrous short time move to II against owners wishes made us ready & willing to sell out.  Those early days with the passes in your unit were the best but nothing like that experience exists anywhere in Disney now. It's becoming nothing more than a themed cruise line.  The only planning required is to avoid it if you want good value and enjoyable vacations now.


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## presley (Dec 26, 2012)

timeos2 said:


> The Disney of today has little but the name in common with the superb operation of 20-30 years ago. If you had that experience it is sad to pay 10 times more for so much less today. We don't need it.



I agree with that.  I've gone to DL an average of once each year over the last 40 years.  It used to be a very magical place with each little area being all about feeling like you were somewhere else.  Now, each area is all about the Disney movies and items that you can buy which were made in China.  

The prices continue to go up for every little thing.  The high cost of VGC and the high points needed for stays combined with the subpar service during my last stay sent my contracts to sale.  It just wasn't worth it for me.  I'd rather pay to stay on the hotel side, or even in a different hotel altogether.  Maybe if I didn't have a 40 year history of the park, I wouldn't be so let down at this point.


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## stoler527 (Dec 26, 2012)

It seems to me that Disney is cutting services and raising prices. The Christmas decorations this year seemed skimpy in comparison to the 1990s. I also miss the characters at the Liberty Tree. They cut the characters and raised the prices.  Maybe the people on the dining plan, who keep the place crowded, don't care. Maybe Disney will put the characters back and double the prices. I wouldn't be surprised if Disney continued to restrict the perks of resale buyers. Marriott always treated resale buyers as second class citizens, so why shouldn't Disney? They view it as a way to discourage resale buyers and make more money for themselves. Unfortunately, the people they are hurting are their most loyal customers, DVC members.
Restricting perks for those staying off world is another way to modify people's behavior. They think that it will drive people into their resort hotels. From everything I have read, the service is slipping at Disney hotels. Bus service is not what it used to be, housekeeping is not as good, and thefts are up. Making the hotel stay magical is the way to get people to stay, not through withdrawing or granting perks. Since I own a timeshare that trades easily into Orlando, I will not be paying for a Disney hotel room. If I can't enjoy my expensive vacation at Disney, I will spend my money elsewhere even though my family loves Disney. 
This whole thing makes me so sad. We looked forward to introducing grandchildren to Mickey and maybe even having a Disney wedding for our daughter. I hope that Disney management soon realizes that people don't mind spending big bucks for magic, but when the magic goes away, so will the people and the dollars.


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## sweetdana (Jan 6, 2013)

I will add my 2 cents as an owner. 1 I am pretty sure it is a cult and I drank the koolaid.  .. JK.  Walking 5 mins back 2 your resort after Illuminations without any fuss is a 10 out of 10.  Not needing to rent a car.   Mears picks u up free and resort buses take u to all dining/parks ect. All free.  ... And last but certainly not. Least 100. $ off AP for households and being able to buy the dining plan.  There are other ways to Disney,  but not like onside just different.


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## BocaBum99 (Jan 6, 2013)

With the discounts available on the Premium Annual Passes, plus the rental value of points and the declining cost to acquire, DVC has become a good economic value to purchase.   You don't even have to stay on Disney property to take advantage of the economic return that is possible.  Just rent out all of your points for $11/point and use the money to stay off property.  But, get the Premium annual passes.

My DVC just closed and when I logged in, I found that there were 300 points available for 2012 and 150 points for 2013.  I paid the maintenance fees and got a partial refund for over payment of 2012 taxes.  I can probably rent those points out for about $5000 for maintenance fees of $705.

As I expected, there is a ton of availability at Aulani.  Lots of 2br space.  However, it is 63 points per day this month for a 2br oceanview unit.

The opportunity cost would be $1386 for a 2 night stay.  I might do it once, but then I can't see myself spending $693 per night to stay in Kapolei.


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## MichaelColey (Jan 8, 2013)

BocaBum99 said:


> As I expected, there is a ton of availability at Aulani. Lots of 2br space. However, it is 63 points per day this month for a 2br oceanview unit.
> 
> The opportunity cost would be $1386 for a 2 night stay. I might do it once, but then I can't see myself spending $693 per night to stay in Kapolei.


Yeah, it's pretty steep.  We used about 50 points for a one night stay.  If we stay at Aulani again, it'll either be an exchange or we'll get a 2BR at the Marriott next door and use points to get a couple 1 night Studio stays at Aulani the same week, to get access to the amenities.  The Kids Club at Aulani ROCKS.


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## stanleyu (Jan 11, 2013)

we're big DVC fans and very much look forward to staying on site in WDW or DL parks. More because of the location, but ambiance does contribute. However, no way would I pay a premium to stay an any of the three DVC resorts not on Disney property.


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