# DISboards gave me a "Time-Out" suspension



## Steamboat Bill (Sep 15, 2006)

Well....something interesting just happened to me. After several years of posting on DISboards, I was given an administrative "Time-Out" suspension....ouch!

First of all (especially if the moderators read this)...I LOVE http://disboards.com and the DVC. I am not really a troublemaker.

Second of all...I like to stir the pot. The main "Friction Point" is that I feel DVC owners are renting their units TOO CHEAP and we need to RAISE our RENT. Unfortunately, most do not feel the same way as I do. 

I feel the true cost of ownership was about $9 per point (MF + lost income opportunity if you bought DVC in full with no financing). The going rental rate is $10-11 per point and I posted a message advertising $14 per point rental to see if anyone would bite. I was gambling my family's vacation plans for next summer and my wife was not happy as she does not care for the extra money (she wants to go to Disney).

I am NOT a professional timeshare broker or renter. Just check my posts and eBay and you will find that I advertised minimal rentals over the past four years.

You can search my previous messages on DISboards if you want.

Here is what they wrote to me. 

Steamboat Bill:

The DISboards' DVC board moderators have conferred on a number of your posts, and have concluded you have pushed the envelope a little too much in recent days. 

Specifically there are two issues: 1. You keep attempting to push higher rental rates, and unfortunately are somewhat argumentative in some of your replies. By constantly pushing the issue to get others to agree, it can be interpreted you are attempting others to set higher prices similar to yours. As mentioned, the DIS does not allow any type of discussion that can lead to collusion.

2nd. The DVC Rent/Trade board is the only board where one may advertise points or reservations for rent. By posting cross-references to your point rental on the regular DVC boards, you have violated board policy. It is clearly stated in the 'sticky' posts on the various boards that the Rent/Trade board is the only place points may be offered. While we recognize the point you were trying to make, it is nevertheless not acceptable.

As a result you are being given a 'Time-Out' suspension for the DVC boards. We do not feel you've done anything serious enough to warrant total banishment from the boards. But do recognize that the 'Time-Out' is a first step, and we hope no further action will ever be required in the future.

Be sure to review all posting rules for all the DVC boards before you begin posting again.

This suspension will last for 30 days, and affects only the DVC boards. Your access to all other boards on the DIS has not been affected.

*What do the TUG BBS users think of this?*

In case the moderators of DISboards read this...please do not give me a total banishment....I am just seeking a Second Opinion.


----------



## timeos2 (Sep 15, 2006)

*Let it be*

Any continuous barrage of opinion on a single subject - no matter how well informed or on or off point - can become irritating.  It's their board to moderate if they feel you stepped over a line take your time out and move on.


----------



## Steamboat Bill (Sep 16, 2006)

Here is the original post for anyone interested. I do not think I said anything offensive, it's just that the last two times I tried to start this thread, it got locked due to the wording. 

www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=1223969

Additionally, since this thread was started by me two days ago, it generated 63 posts and 1,292 views.


----------



## BSQ (Sep 16, 2006)

as an outsider with limited need, want or desire to read your posts, from just this one example  I'd say you're coming across as someone who is trying to argue a point until people start to agree with you, because you must be right and everyone else must be wrong.  And now you are bringing your reasoning over here so that perhaps folks here can justify your point of view as being right.

Now I am sure that statement is going to compell you to defend yourself, and tell me why surely I am wrong in thinking this, but it's simply my opinion.  

I'd say it's their board, play by their rules. Take the time out.  Move on.


----------



## SOS8260456 (Sep 16, 2006)

I agree that it is their board, so play by their rules.  However, 30 days!  Wow!  I'd go nuts without my DIS for that long.  If it was your first "time out", I'd say that was excessive.

Lisa


----------



## Steamboat Bill (Sep 16, 2006)

To BSQ:

I don't disagree with your opinion and I see no reason to defend myself. 

This is, after all, "not the real world" and I can log onto DISboard as a new user with a different screen name, e-mail, and log in immediatly. Thus, the time-out is meaningless.

I really don't care if people think I am right or wrong, I just wanted to see the rental rates increase or there will be no compelling reason to buy DVC (either from Disney or resale) as it will SOON become cheaper to rent than buy. Then my $40,000 worth of DVC points could become devalued.

I just don't see much posting about DVC on TUGbbs and was interested in a different perspective. 

If you don't want to read the thread...no problem, just click "Next Thread".


----------



## Steamboat Bill (Sep 16, 2006)

SOS8260456 said:
			
		

> I agree that it is their board, so play by their rules.  However, 30 days!  Wow!  I'd go nuts without my DIS for that long.  If it was your first "time out", I'd say that was excessive.



Well, as I posted above...there are ways around the 30-day Time-Out, but I will respect the punishment and NOT log in as Steamboat Bill.

I compare my actions similar to getting a ticket for not coming to a 100% complete stop when pulling up to a Stop sign. 

It's not like I was blowing thru a red light in a school zone crossing going 60mph while talking on the cell phone drinking a beer and not wearing my seatbelt.


----------



## Kevin (Sep 16, 2006)

*Take your punishment like an adult*



			
				Steamboat Bill said:
			
		

> *What do the TUG BBS users think of this?*
> 
> In case the moderators of DISboards read this...please do not give me a total banishment....I am just seeking a Second Opinion.



2nd opinion:

You are being childish and the "time out" appears well deserved.

Then you state: "I really don't care if people think I am right or wrong"...

???

JMHO


----------



## Steamboat Bill (Sep 16, 2006)

*Kevin hurt my feelings*



			
				Kevin said:
			
		

> 2nd opinion:
> You are being childish and the "time out" appears well deserved.
> Then you state: "I really don't care if people think I am right or wrong"...



Kevin, I respect your opinion. I just hope you don't get suspended from TUGbbs or any other board for starting a thread like I did.

The fact that you called me "*childish"* is much more *DISRESPECTFUL* that anything I ever posted on DISboard.

Did you read the thread? I doubt it. 

I did not use profanity or insult anyone directly and was only posting my ideas on how to raise rental rates. This would be good for everyone as it woudl generate more income when people need to rent points and help increase the resale prices.

As far as my statement,  "I really don't care if people think I am right or wrong"...I was referring to my *ideas* on raising rental prices.

However, I do "CARE" that you think I am acting childish. I respectfuly disagree with your opinion, no matter how offensive it is to me.


----------



## Kevin (Sep 16, 2006)

*Don't pay me any attention*



			
				Steamboat Bill said:
			
		

> Kevin, I respect your opinion. I just hope you don't get suspended from TUGbbs or any other board for starting a thread like I did.
> 
> The fact that you called me "*childish"* is much more *DISRESPECTFUL* that anything I ever posted on DISboard.
> 
> ...



Sorry if I seemed a bit harsh but... you asked.  I actually read the first post in your thread.  The one thing that stood out was the fact that you started a thread in which you stated you'd already had two similar locked.  Maybe stubborn is a better word.

Sorry if I hurt your feelings, but I could not think of any other way to put it.  I guess the saying... "if you don't have anything good to say..."
:ignore: 

Have a good night.


----------



## Keitht (Sep 16, 2006)

Steamboat Bill said:
			
		

> . I do not think I said anything offensive.



The moderators haven't accused you of saying anything offensive, just off being argumentative and "pushing the envelope" too far.
I think they have explained the reasons for your suspension clearly and thoroughly.  All boards have their own set of rules and if anybody repeatedly breaks those rules they must expect action to be taken against them.
From the message sent by the mods, it certainly doesn't look to be a single event that has led them to the action they have taken.
On the specifics of the rental fees members charge I would say that is entirely their own business.  If I was in a situation where somebody was trying to tell me what to do with my own property I wouldn't be too impressed.  The only thing that would matter to me is if *I* was happy with the income *my *unit was generating.


----------



## Fern Modena (Sep 16, 2006)

That wouldn't be a smart thing to do.  Posting before your time was up, even with a new name, could get you banned permanently.  Just because you reregister with a new login and email address doesn't mean they won't know it is you.

It doesn't matter if you are right and they are wrong, or you weren't arguing, etc.  The moderators and administrators of that board set the rules, and they decide who is not complying with the rules.  I can't imagine that you were suspended for 30 days without some sort of previous warning.  

I don't understand people who feel they should bring a grievance from one website onto another one.  

Fern



			
				Steamboat Bill said:
			
		

> I don't disagree with your opinion and I see no reason to defend myself.
> 
> * This is, after all, "not the real world" and I can log onto DISboard as a new user with a different screen name, e-mail, and log in immediatly. Thus, the time-out is meaningless.
> *


----------



## Steamboat Bill (Sep 16, 2006)

Fern Modena said:
			
		

> I don't understand people who feel they should bring a grievance from one website onto another one.



I actually didn't intend anyone to think I have a grievance with DISboards.

I really enjoy participating with DIS and TUG and Timeshareforums. I just think TUG has a "more objective" membership....perhaps it is the pixie dust the DIS posters keep talking about that clouds their views on reality.

Please realize that I was just posting something unusual that happened to me on another BBS. I think I made it clear with the title of this thread and I chose to put the thread in the TUG lounge forum. Isn't this what the Lounge is for?

So far, there have been 105 views and only 11 posts (of which half were by me). Most people lurk and a few people engage. I will accept getting FLAMED for this thread, but at least make it an intelligent flame job.

Just think of this thread as an online shrink for me and some amusement for the readers.

The message is: "Be careful when expressing your opinion as you might get banned for it"...remember I was NOT falsely crying fire in a movie house.


----------



## ira g (Sep 16, 2006)

"I really don't care if people think I am right or wrong, I just wanted to see the rental rates increase or there will be no compelling reason to buy DVC (either from Disney or resale) as it will SOON become cheaper to rent than buy. Then my $40,000 worth of DVC points could become devalued."


Bill- Sounds like my point to you yesterday on another thread about the overvalue of expensive timeshares. I SEE YOU ARE BEGINNING TO AGREE WITH ME.HOPEFULLY THE WHOLE TIMESHARE INDUSTRY DOESN'T IMPLODE.


----------



## cds62 (Sep 16, 2006)

I agree with the Bill. As a DVC owner that recently rented out a large amount of points I too would like to see the price increase for rentals. The rate of $10/point has been unchanged for many years and it seems that it is time for an increase. Unfortunately if you try to get more money you will not succeed because there are so many others willing to rent at the $10 price. 
I did see the original post on the DISBOARDS and thought that it was phrased in a manner that would likely offend and get people all wound up.


----------



## Blondie (Sep 16, 2006)

So, Bill, why are you still beating this very dead horse? You have managed to get your point across on not one, but two sites. 'Nuf already


----------



## timeos2 (Sep 16, 2006)

*Be careful about value assumptions*



			
				ira g said:
			
		

> "I really don't care if people think I am right or wrong, I just wanted to see the rental rates increase or there will be no compelling reason to buy DVC (either from Disney or resale) as it will SOON become cheaper to rent than buy. Then my $40,000 worth of DVC points could become devalued."
> 
> 
> Bill- Sounds like my point to you yesterday on another thread about the overvalue of expensive timeshares. I SEE YOU ARE BEGINNING TO AGREE WITH ME.HOPEFULLY THE WHOLE TIMESHARE INDUSTRY DOESN'T IMPLODE.



I can't resist going slightly off the thread to say in 2043 your long term rental of DVC points will certainly be "devalued" as Disney will take back ownership with zero payment to you. In fact for that last year they will be expecting you to pay the annual fee to be sure the resort is in top shape before they accept it back.  IMHO long before that date the devaluation of those points will begin when DVC stops ROFR and the long term renters realize they face years of high fees and little resale value.  Don't be fooled by the propped up values of today that you have something that can be resold at will for a high value. No one knows exactly when DVC will pull the plug on ROFR but when they do the freefall of prices will be astounding and those who didn't know it happened very unpleasantly surprised when they decide to get out. 

DVC is a great group of resorts but not an investment anymore than any other timeshare is. In fact it is less as you know it will be going back to others for free in the future. If you bought in just to enjoy and feel the costs make it a value to you then you're fine. If you bought it thinking you'll get most of your money back out you better revisit your assumptions or get out while you can in fact still recover most of the upfront costs. Wait too long and you're in the same situation as 85% of all timeshare owners when it's time to sell. Too much in and not enough offered in resale.  The other 15% (my guess) can recover most of what they paid as they bought at resale pricing. Because of ROFR resale on DVC doesn't save you enough to be safe.  When it ends the deals will be plentiful.  The relatively low cost of rental points is the sign that owners can and will get antsy and discount prices just to get out. Rentals today - sales at some unknown future date.


----------



## Kevin (Sep 16, 2006)

*Okay, I'll bite...*



			
				Steamboat Bill said:
			
		

> ... I will accept getting FLAMED for this thread, but at least make it an intelligent flame job....



Bill,

 

Obviously... you won't "accept" any kind of "flame job" ,.  It seems like you want sympathy for being banned for 30 days.  You really don't care what TUGgers think of your DISboads ban.


There have been plenty of times I have said or done something wrong and not been able to admit it or accept the consequences, until... someone threw cold water in my face.  Only then, did I realize how "silly" I had behaved. The way my post on this thread are going... this could be one of those times!   

If you step back and think about it... don't you think logging in with a different screen name is a bit antagonistic and silly?  If a person would do that, it leads me to believe he/she has a history of disruptive behavior on tha website.

I honestly don't want to "argue" with you but, why ask what others think if you only want responses that agree with you?
Since I don't... I will leave your playground, as I would only further stir the pot.  

You have gotten responses from a few of the legends of TUG... John Chase, Keitht and Fern ( only one name and no intial needed... like Madonna   ).  My opinion carries little weight compared to those and others.  Have a great Saturday.


----------



## BocaBum99 (Sep 16, 2006)

Bill,

I didn't read any of the disboard posts, but I do disagree with your notion of Disney points being marketable at $14/point.  I think they are too expensive at $10/point when the alternative is to get a nice off property resort for less than $100/night.

In fact, I believe that Disney rentals may have topped out.  There is a tremendous oversupply of accommodations in Orlando right now of all types.  Vacancy rates for hotels are increasing and rental rates are starting to decrease.  If anything, I believe the rental rate will start decreasing for DVC points, not increasing because of this market condition in Orlando.

Also, the moderators are right.  It is illegal to price fix and the based on what you wrote on this thread, that is what you were attempting to do.  That is a very serious anti-trust offense.

What I don't understand is the 30-day suspension.  I think 7-days would be more commensurate with the deed.  But, I haven't read the posts and seen the types of warnings you received.  If anything, you have a point that you may have experienced cruel and unusual punishment.


----------



## gmarine (Sep 16, 2006)

You like to stir the pot? Maybe thats the problem. Most posters on Disboards and TUG participate by answering questions in order to help others or by asking questions and looking for advice. 

If your more concerned with "stirring the pot" then maybe another message board might be better suited for that.

As far as looking to increase the amount DVC rents for, I dont agree. As most owners do, you are over estimating the value of your timeshare. They will rent for what the market will allow. If currently it is about $10 per point, then thinking that you are going to increase that by 40% is being very unrealisic.


----------



## Pit (Sep 16, 2006)

What I take away from this thread is that it makes cents D) to rent, rather than own, DVC.


----------



## Tom52 (Sep 16, 2006)

I disagree with anyone, who for whatever reason, believes it is somehow their right to influence rental prices for someone else's timeshares.  To me that is self serving for their own benefit.  "Then my $40,000 worth of DVC points could become devalued."

If a person knows how to get higher rental prices through their connections or advertising efforts, well that's great.  If another person is an occasional renter and needs to get the thing rented so they can at least cover their maintenance fees, well, that's great too.  

It is difficult to rent when competing against the people who are in the business and have built up repeat customers and "word of mouth" recommendations.  I don't fault them for that, it is just a sign they are good at what they do.

But how do you compete against that unless you establish a price point that just might snag someone's interest?  There are valid reasons people establish prices lower than the "going" rate for rentals.  Isn't the the whole idea about a "free market" economy?  It is good for owner's needing to rent their unit and good for people looking for a good rental deal.

Timeshares are primarily intended to be used for vacationing purposes, and it is nice that we have the flexibility to rent when we can't use them ourselves.  But nothing in life is static, if rental of timeshares becomes unprofitable we are free to look for better invests to generate income.

Just my opinion....

Tom


----------



## 3kids4me (Sep 16, 2006)

(Edited...decided I did not want to participate in this thread.)


----------



## Steamboat Bill (Sep 16, 2006)

To ira g:
Yes, it appears that I am starting to agree with you about the overvalue of expensive timeshares. Disney has had a great 15 year ride, but they are not exempt from a crash. It is unfortunate that the LOW rental rates (by members) may be an early sign of an impending market correction. We will soon see. I hope that I can get out at the top of the market.

To cds62:
Thanks for your support. Perhaps I could have sugar coated the original post, but I did not.

To Blondie:
This may be a dead horse to you, but not me. Why do you bother to read this thread if you don't care or are not a DVC owner?

To timeos2:
You have posted the SMARTEST thing I have ever read about DVC….thanks. I plan on selling way before they expire in 2043.

To Kevin:
I would accept your flame if you read my entire original thread. You are wrong….I very much respect the TUGbbs users as they are much more objective, practical, and smarter than the DISboard users (IMHO). Disney must be putting something in the water as it really affects the DVC owners as they only see things with pixie dust. Not to mention all the annoying dancing similies, banners, countdowns….I hardly see that on Tugbbs.

To BocaBum99:
The $14 point rental was an experiment to prove that rising prices may not ever be possible on DISboards as DVC owners are over 100,000 strong and are happy if they just get their $4 MF back, not to mention lost investment opportunity, interest rates on loans, etc. 

I agree with you that DVC may be at the price peak, and I may sell soon.

I was not really trying to "price fix rent" as it would be impossible to get a monopoly with all 100,000 DVC owners, I just wanted to try to convince owners to raise the rent as the cost to buy-in and MF have gone up over 40% in the past 5 years, but the rental rates have not changed at all. Isn't this the REVERSE of "What is the cheapest I can buy XYZ timeshare?" posts that appear on this bbs everyday?

To gmarine:
I have over 400 posts on DVC and most of them are helpful to newbies. It is just that I like to start threads with controversy to get a debate going. This is what I mean about stirring the pot. In fact, they have a cute animated smilie of a happy face stirring the pot.

To Pit:
You are very wise and are on of the few that "get it"

To Tom52:
What is wrong with being self serving if it benefits every DVC owner? I did not buy DVC to rent points or make money. However, when I have excessive points, shouldn't I try to get the most rent for them rather than letting them expire?

To 2kids4me:
I hope that you do not play poker as you have completely read me wrong. It is not my desire to get people angry, it is to get them to THINK, debate, and discuss. You may not agree or like me…that's fine with me. I have pocket 2's, what do you have?


----------



## Steamboat Bill (Sep 17, 2006)

*I have been 100% revoked now....ouch!*

OK, I am now 100% banned from DISboards as Steamboat Bill as my posting privileges have been permanently revoked.

My bother Mike (Pegleg Pete) posted a message on a thread I started that had over 7,000 views informing the readers that Steamboat Bill was suspended for 30 days and would not be able to continue the discussion on raising point rental rates.

I know this may be hard to believe, but yesterdays post was really posted by my brother Mike, not me. In fact, all my recent threads have been deleted. However, my most popular non-controversial threads are still going….

To summarize the issues:
1. I simply started a thread on raising rental rates for DVC points. This was not well received.

2. My first two attempts to start the thread were locked because the moderator thought the wording implied "price fixing" so I modified the post to ask member suggestions for rent and what I thought was a fair amount. I was given warnings each time, but they were not too serious. Just something like your post was deleted because of word choices. This was the first time in 4 years (and over 400 posts) I have ever been locked or even warned by a moderator.

3. I did not use profanity, was not racist, was not anti-Semitic, and did not flame anyone. Some posts may have been sarcastic, but not offensive.

4. I then posted a challenge ad on a different forum to rent points at $14 rather than the current $10-11.


Here is e-mail I received from DIS:

_Steamboat Bill/ Pegleg Pete:

Due to violaton (sic) of our site guidelines your posting privileges have been permanently revoked.

You were being given an opportunity to maintain the ability to participate on the DIS by accepting the 30 day temporary suspension from the DVC Boards, but chose to violate that by registering a new name and again posting on the DVC Boards.

DIS Boards Administration_


Oh well, I guess it is time for me to lay low for awhile and think up a new screen name. After all, this is a virtual world, not reality….and I can create a new persona. Too bad my post counter will get reset. 

FYI - I will be in California Sunday-Friday and will probably not use my computer so you can Flame me at will. I will catch up on Friday or Saturday.


----------



## turkel (Sep 17, 2006)

I followed your link and I couldn't find your post but I did find the rental board.  Your entitled to ask any amount you want in rent.  I noticed many inquiries at the $10 a point you stated.  They seem to go like hot cakes.  I was quite frankly shocked at the price.  I would never pay that kind of money to go to disney but obviously many others are happy to pay that price.
I do think some people here have been rather harsh.  There is nothing wrong with a little pot stirring.  Spice does add flavor.:whoopie: 
I have not found you to be negative, and you have not  sought out to attack others personally.  I say the ban is harsh and I have read a lot worse from some on Tug Pam


----------



## Steamboat Bill (Sep 17, 2006)

turkel said:
			
		

> I say the ban is harsh and I have read a lot worse from some on Tug Pam



Thanks Pam....I have not left for California yet...in a few hours.

The original thread that started this controversy was DELETED and the link I posted will no longer work. How's that for letting the market decide....?

Sorry you missed the post....I may soon sell my DVC as I just put in an offer on a Marriott MSE 2 Bdr Platinum today that was acccepted. Now it needs to pass ROFR. :ignore:


----------



## Keitht (Sep 17, 2006)

As you had commented earlier in this thread about how easy it would be for you to create a new e-mail address and user id on DISboards, you shouldn't be surprised that the moderators over there have taken this action.
For a 'new' member to sign up to the board and their first action to be raising awareness of your problem was bound to raise suspicions.  Whether the poster was actually your brother or not is of little relevance as they were presumably perceived to be acting as your mouthpiece when you had been suspended.
If anybody seems incapable of accepting the rules of the board they must suffer the consequences.
So there can be no false assumptions about any vested interest in this I should make it clear that I do not own at and Disney Resorts, nor have any desire so to do.  I am a moderator on a couple of boards so hopefully have some understanding and experience of those who work within the rules and those who want to run things according to their own rules.
_(Edited to de-personalise the original post as it may otherwise be interpreted as a personal attack which was not the intent)_


----------



## SOS8260456 (Sep 17, 2006)

I am not sure, but I think that alot of these forums may have the ability to ban an entire computer IP address.  This would make it a pain for those who are banned to just turn around and log in using a different user name.

Lisa


----------



## jerseygirl (Sep 17, 2006)

Not that I think you should violate the ruling (why post where you're not wanted), but I thought they tracked by IP address.  Wouldn't you need a new internet provider, not just a new name?

Edit:  Oops ... hadn't seen Lisa's post when I posted this.  Sorry for the duplication!


----------



## Arkansas Winger (Sep 17, 2006)

SOS8260456 said:
			
		

> I am not sure, but I think that alot of these forums may have the ability to ban an entire computer IP address.  This would make it a pain for those who are banned to just turn around and log in using a different user name.
> 
> Lisa



They may have just banned his user ID or if they may choose to ban his IP address. As I understand it, the problem with banning an IP address is that you can take others out also if other members use the same IP.

Dale


----------



## Makai Guy (Sep 17, 2006)

jerseygirl said:
			
		

> Not that I think you should violate the ruling (why post where you're not wanted), but I thought they tracked by IP address.  Wouldn't you need a new internet provider, not just a new name?
> 
> Edit:  Oops ... hadn't seen Lisa's post when I posted this.  Sorry for the duplication!



You will, I'm sure, understand if we don't explain in detail how these things work, thus giving malcontents more information about how to get around them.


----------



## jerseygirl (Sep 17, 2006)

Absolutely!


----------



## DrQ (Sep 17, 2006)

Arkansas Winger said:
			
		

> They may have just banned his user ID or if they may choose to ban his IP address. As I understand it, the problem with banning an IP address is that you can take others out also if other members use the same IP.
> 
> Dale


Yeah, the easy way around this is to sign up through AOL.  They proxy all traffic through a small number of IP addresses, so the board admins cannot block those IP addresses.  There are also methods to tunnel your traffic through another IP address. IP blocking is like a padlock; it keeps honest people honest, but it will not deter a determined theif.


----------



## DrQ (Sep 17, 2006)

Steamboat Bill said:
			
		

> OK, I am now 100% banned from DISboards as Steamboat Bill as my posting privileges have been permanently revoked.
> 
> My bother Mike (Pegleg Pete) posted a message on a thread I started that had over 7,000 views informing the readers that Steamboat Bill was suspended for 30 days and would not be able to continue the discussion on raising point rental rates.
> 
> I know this may be hard to believe, but yesterdays post was really posted by my brother Mike, not me. In fact, all my recent threads have been deleted. However, my most popular non-controversial threads are still going….


This is why you do not give your login information to anyone, not even your brother.

Sombody on TUG probably pointed the DISboard admin to this thread and ratted you out. Tattlers abound on the internet, kinda like the jerks that drive in the far left lane at the speed limit because they think that nobody should speed.


----------



## camachinist (Sep 17, 2006)

I'm hearing from Bill that his brother (perhaps another DVC owner) posted under his own ID (Pegleg Pete), and likely from his own computer, on a thread that Bill had originated. If so, I would be interested to know the disposition of Bill's brother in the matter, since Bill was permanently suspended.

Bill's likely guilty of no more than being straightforward and direct, something that a subset of online communities seem to have trouble with. Since the related OP's are now gone, I don't have any way of verifying such. Just a hunch...

Pat


----------



## BocaBum99 (Sep 17, 2006)

Hey Bill,

I didn't read your posts on the disboards, but I think you did take a lot of flack on this thread.  I admire that you took it well and responded with respect.

I think you should keep posting topics with unconventional thoughts.  I like that it makes us think about the topic with perhaps a different point of view.  If we can't post our thoughts on such topics, then it would get really boring.

Keep posting.  I'll read them and respond.


----------



## turkel (Sep 17, 2006)

Hope your Marriott passes ROFR.  I am sure your resale price will help make your Marriott experience positive.  Many Marriott MSE owners say they get great trades especially those that get July 4th week.  Happy closing.  If you need any help with the marriott system refer to the Marriott board or I would be happy to help if I am able Pam
PS sorry about the permanent ban, some people can defineately take things too seriously
I saw a post not too long ago from a disney owner saying they would be willing to trade a disney stay with a marriott owner, but only a 2-4 day stay at disney for a week at Marriott because their disney was much more valuable.  I laughed out loud.  Maybe in a couple months when you close you can laugh as well.


----------



## gmarine (Sep 17, 2006)

turkel said:
			
		

> Hope your Marriott passes ROFR.  I am sure your resale price will help make your Marriott experience positive.  Many Marriott MSE owners say they get great trades especially those that get July 4th week.  Happy closing.  If you need any help with the marriott system refer to the Marriott board or I would be happy to help if I am able Pam
> PS sorry about the permanent ban, some people can defineately take things too seriously
> I saw a post not too long ago from a disney owner saying they would be willing to trade a disney stay with a marriott owner, but only a 2-4 day stay at disney for a week at Marriott because their disney was much more valuable.  I laughed out loud.  Maybe in a couple months when you close you can laugh as well.




Trading 4 days in a DVC resort for a week at MMC isnt that far fetched. Think about it. Lets say you want to go to Boardwalk Villas. Its almost an impossible trade during most times of year. Disney is going to charge somewhere around $600 per night, more than double the rate for MMC during the summer. 
For your MMC $640 maintenance fee you get 4 days at BWV. Actually not a bad deal.


----------



## Steamboat Bill (Sep 18, 2006)

I am in Los Angeles for a few days and then off to San Fran for a business trip. I was hoping to be “Internet free” but I could not resist.

FYI: Long Beach airport is much more convenient than LAX or Burbank. Highly recommend JetBlue and Long Beach Airport for anyone visiting the LA area.

FYI: I am renting the new Shelby GT-350 H from Hertz (only 500 in the world) and it is a total blast. I am tearing up the freeways of LA and hopefully won‘t get a ticket. Read about it here: http://www.cnn.com/2006/AUTOS/04/11/new_yorks_hertz_shelby/index.html

To Keitht:
You stated (and I quote), “Whether the poster was actually your brother or not is of little relevance as they were presumably perceived to be acting as your mouthpiece when you had been suspended. If anybody seems incapable of accepting the rules of the board they must suffer the consequences.”….dude, you have to lighten up….this is America, not England, (well it is technically cyberspace). Did you ever hear the phrase “innocent until PROVEN guilty?”

To many posters:
I already have a NEW user name on DISboard, but will lay low for awhile. Anyone can lurk without registering, but you need to register to post. The sad thing is that I made several virtual friends over the past 4 years that are wondering why Steamboat Bill disappeared.

To camachinist:
I fully agree with your statement that “Bill's likely guilty of no more than being straightforward and direct, something that a subset of online communities seem to have trouble with.”

FYI: my brother Michael (aka Pegleg Pete) has also been 100% banned from DISboard for simply posting a message announcing that Steamboat Bill was banned for trying to influence DVC members to raise the rent for point rentals and linking a $14 per point ad.

To BocaBum99:
You are the only person from any bbs that I have ever met in real life. Although I am not a USC fan, I think you are a cool dude and have learned a lot about TS from you and your posts. Thanks for your support and I hope to play golf with you when you get back to Boca Raton.

To Turkel:
I am sure I will have many posts about my Marriott experience (and Westgate Park City) as I begin to use this system. I too hope it passes ROFR and I will post the details of the price and transaction AFTER it is approved. A small hint is that it cost me less than 50% the cost of a similar DVC purchase. 

To everyone interested:
DVC owners are a strange group in that they seem to look at the world thru “pixie colored glasses”…that is not meant as an insult because I am a card carrying, flag waiving, Disney lover myself. However, I have taken a step back to revaluate why am I paying $20,000 for a DVC TS that TUG users can replicate (off site of course) with a $4,000 TS purchase? I am also tired of paying Disney $60 per person per day admission, $10 per day for a refillable soda mug, $8 for a pin I can buy on eBay for $2, and many more examples.

I believe I was booted off DISboards because I challenged the magic, questioned authority, suggested people raise rental rates, and stirred up the pot. Something I forgot to post on TUG was that I have personally talked several DIS newbies into cancelling thir reservation to buy a DVC contract. This was only for people that I thought was getting ripped off, specifically, a young couple in their early 20’s that put 10% down and financed the rest at 10.75% interest. I posted a detailed message that they were paying $18 per DVC point per year (MF + finance), when they could rent for only $10 per point per year. The couple cancelled their DVC deposit and many DIS users tried to justify this OUTRAGEOUS expense. They then began to treat me like the anti-christ.

Anyway, I enjoy this “virtual world battle” as it is kind of interesting to see the dynamics of how people act and react in a society where people don’t know if I am a 400 pound 4 foot tall hobbit or a 6 foot blond female bombshell. I am neither….but the sociology professors are probably having a field day with the social networking of the Internet.


----------



## Keitht (Sep 18, 2006)

Bill,

I did say *was perceived* to be acting as your mouthpiece.  All I was doing was expressing a view as to why the ban was imposed.  When various statements made about a second id and a questionable first post by a new member are put together I think it was bound to raise suspicions.  As you were already persona non grata with the mods of the board I don't think what happened next will come as much of surprise to many.
Rightly or wrongly internet boards don't require the same level of proof as a court of law.  The judge and jury are the boards mods and they will always have the final say.


----------



## rickandcindy23 (Sep 18, 2006)

It is amazing that no one has challenged this freedom of expression on these types of boards.  What happend to freedom of speech and the press?  Why is the internet exempt from those freedoms?  As long as you are nice and do not threaten or insult people, which is not protected by those freedoms, then I think it is wrong to stop people from expressing their opinions.  

It really is about being nice.


----------



## T_R_Oglodyte (Sep 18, 2006)

rickandcindy23 said:
			
		

> It is amazing that no one has challenged this freedom of expression on these types of boards.  What happend to freedom of speech and the press?  Why is the internet exempt from those freedoms?  As long as you are nice and do not threaten or insult people, which is not protected by those freedoms, then I think it is wrong to stop people from expressing their opinions.
> 
> It really is about being nice.


Your post, and my response, is tangential, but here goes.

Freedom of speech and freedom of the press does not mean that an invididual is allowed to say whatever they want, whenver they want, and wherever they want.

What it does mean is that no person is prevented from creating and distributing their own publication in which they express their thoughts however they want.

The internet is the best thing for free speech. Each site can set it's own rules. But anyone can set up their own site and say what they want.

*****

Consider the analogy to print media. Freedom of the press does not mean that a person who owns a printing press must print anything and everything that someone wants to have printed. Similarly, the person who operates a newstand is not obligated to take what you've printed and put it on a rack. Freedom of the press means that if you can get it printed, you can distribute it (or make distribution arrangments) and make it available to the public. The public is then free to read it or ignore it, as they wish.

But note the limitation - you are still responsible for getting it down on paper and distributing it for people to read in the first place. The public bears no obligation to help you get past those first steps.

***

Web sites such as this site are the 21st century equivalent of a printing press. They are a means to distibute written thoughts for others to read. If I own a printing press, it's not censorship if you ask me to print something for free, and I decline to print it for you. Censorship is a situation where you are prohibited from owning a printing press or if someone who owns a printing press is prohibited from printing your material or writings.

With the internet, every person with access to a computer and the internet now owns a printing press and can get their content distributed.  Search engines will even seek out what you've written, catalog it, and point people to it.  You can create your own website or your own blog and distribute your ideas to the world -for free!! That is as far from censorship as things can be.

But just as the owner of a printing press is under no obligation to print everything that anyone wants him to print, neither is the operator of any web site compelled to allow anyone to post whatever they want. That's not censorship; to the contrary that is part of the freedom of speech granted to every person. 

"Freedom of speech" also means that operators of this or any site are free to specify and decide what the content of their "publication" will be; it is not censorship if they decide that certain communications are not cosistent with the nature of what they want their site to express.  In fact, *compelling someone who owns a printing press (or a web site) to distribute content against their will is just as much a form of censorship as is preventing them from owning or operating the printing press (or web site) in the first place.* 

There is no person at this site who is being prohibited from writing and distributing their thoughts for the entire world to see. If that person is limited in their ability to write and post their thoughts for the entire world to see, that is a limitation of their own making and their own choice.


----------



## Cat (Sep 18, 2006)

You said a mouthful, Cindy. It really IS all about being nice.

We often hear the hue and cry about freedom of speech. However, TUG, as one example, is privately owned, and therefore the term "freedom of speech" instantly becomes relative. It is freedom as it is interpreted by the owner, which is often decided by the admins/mods of a website, depending on the responsibilities and authorities that the owner has conferred.

This is true on many websites. The rules are posted, and it is up to those in charge to interpret and enforce them. Rarely, if ever, does an offending poster think that he has run afoul of them. 

What one person perceives as not threatening or harrassing may be perceived completely differently by those in charge, particularly when they factor in past behaviors and actions.

Happily, here on TUG, there are few occasions when someone can't seem to figure out the rules, or feels constrained to flout them. It's amazing that those who do so often cry foul and feel constrained to try to dig up sympathy for their cause on other boards. The term "freedom of speech" is almost without fail brought into the justification.


----------



## Cat (Sep 18, 2006)

Steve, you said it far more eloquently than I ever could have. The printing press analogy is right on. It's when someone seeks to use someone else's printing press for the dissemination of their own purposes and doesn't like being told that it's not what the owner wants on _his own website_ that that the seeker resorts to that haven for justifiers everywhere, "freedom of speech."

In other words, don't get your panties in a bunch when someone won't let you use his printing press for your purposes. Get your own printing press or find someone who will let you use his. Just do it.

And for heaven's sake, don't whine about it.


----------



## "Roger" (Sep 18, 2006)

I had read Cindy's post and was thinking about making a comment comparing freedom of speech on the internet to freedom of the press.  It seemed like it might be a great deal of work, so I backed off.  Lo and behold, Steve makes the same comparison (but more carefully and at greater length than I would).  

So, if my mother were to ask what I learned today, the answer would be that there are great benefits to laziness.  I ought to practice it more often.

Nice job, Steve.  And, Cindy, I do agree with you that ultimately the secret is to be nice.  Kudos to you, too.


----------



## T_R_Oglodyte (Sep 18, 2006)

Roger said:
			
		

> So, if my mother were to ask what I learned today, the answer would be that there are great benefits to laziness.  I ought to practice it more often.


You should also take that there are great benefits to "search" and to "cut-and-paste".  I've written all of that before; search made it easy to find and cut-an-paste made it easy to repost.


----------



## eschjw (Sep 18, 2006)

Yes the Shelby GT-350 H from Hertz is a blast to drive. My son is a Hertz manager in Chattanooga and he drove one from Nashville to Chattanooga for a special event there last month. He enjoyed it so much that he rented it the next day to visit friends in Georgia. I bet you are turning a few heads even in LA. You obviously have good taste. 

Last year I sent him and his new wife to Disney's OKW in January with a 5 night studio rental (Sun-Thurs) that I purchased on ebay for $495. By my calculations it was a little over $12 a point and this seems to be the going rate on ebay for OKW. 

Your time out however does seem to be excessive for your crime and I feel your pain.  

Joe


----------



## rickandcindy23 (Sep 18, 2006)

So they have a very limited number of these cars and Hertz owns a good percentage of them!  That is too funny!  I knew Hertz was way too expensive for me, if they can afford to buy limited edition vehicles.   

So Hertz is getting the cars in and sending them out right away, as soon as they are back on the lot, without checking oil, tires and brakes.  Poor guy who buys that car from the Hertz used car sales lot.  

My sister worked for Hertz for years, was a general manager, and there is very little budgeted for oil changes and the like.  So when we get a rental car, Rick checks the oil and tire pressure.  We have stopped at an auto parts store more than once to add oil.     Air in tires is good for gas mileage, so it benefits us to stop and check.  He usually adds air.   

Cat, I agree with you completely.


----------



## Steamboat Bill (Sep 19, 2006)

eschjw said:
			
		

> Yes the Shelby GT-350 H from Hertz is a blast to drive. My son is a Hertz manager in Chattanooga and he drove one from Nashville to Chattanooga for a special event there last month. He enjoyed it so much that he rented it the next day to visit friends in Georgia. I bet you are turning a few heads even in LA. You obviously have good taste.



The Shelby GT-350 H is a blast but I would never want to own one. Yes, it is amazing that in Los Angeles I got dozens of looks and had several people talk to me at the gas station, mall, house, and just about everywhere I went. I cracked up because this is a car that is probably worth $40k.

The best thing is the sound of the engine/exhaust as it rumbles. I raced a friend who has a Merceded 350 CLK and it was pretty even. We hit about 120mph on the 101 from Woodland Hills to Thousand Oaks. (please don't flame me for speeding) and the two cars were almost identical in performance except the MB is a more refined car and is quite. This car would get smoked by a Corvette Z-06 or Porsche or MB SL 550 or SL 65.

This car has lots of flash with a little increase in performance. It actualls feel like a fast car, even traveling 45 mph. The WORST thing about this car is that is is very rough to drive on the 101/405/5 as I feel EVERY bump in the road. Next time I will stick with renting a Jag or lincoln town car.


----------



## rickandcindy23 (Sep 19, 2006)

Bill, isn't that the speed limit for California?   Rick asked a cop at a restaurant near Anaheim a few years ago about the supposed speed limit.  The cop said when traffic is moving, they would rather not pull anyone over at all, no matter how fast they are going, as long as they are all going the same speed!  Now if someone is going 20 miles over the rest that are going 20 miles over the limit, he MIGHT pull that guy over.


----------



## Steamboat Bill (Sep 19, 2006)

I never posted anything about my right to free speach as these are PRIVATELY owned forums and they can do whatever they want.

I really only wanted to let people know that I was BANNED from DIS for simply posting about raising rental rates for DVC points. I never used profanity, attacked other members, and was not rude. 

The DIS moderators chose to permanently ban me for simply trying to influence the other members to raise there rentals...like I have posted here and at TS4M...DVC people are not like the members I see on these boards.

That's ok becaue I already have several new screen names on DIS (if I get banned again) and have continued to post on the DISboards forum.

Therefore, the only thing they did was kill my screen name "Steamboat Bill" and my 400+ point counter. 

The BBS world is a virtural world and is NOT the real world. When you DIE in cyberspace, you simply log in as a new user.

I only wish the people that have died serving our country could do the same thing.


----------

