# [2007] Canadian Dollar still going up!



## Bill4728

Oct 30th

The canadian dollar is at a 47 year high and still risings. 

Currently it cost $1.05 US to buy a C$1.00 

And I was thinking the loonie was high a year ago when it cost $0.85.


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## Kola

Bill4728 said:


> Oct 30th
> 
> The canadian dollar is at a 47 year high and still risings.
> 
> Currently it cost $1.05 US to buy a C$1.00



This reflects rapidly rising international commodity prices, attractive investment climate in Canada as well as a continuous decline of the US $ in world markets due to disasterous economic policies of the *W* administration.

K.


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## AKE

It definitely is strange seeing a discount on my Canadian credit card statement these days when I buy in US dollars....  I can recall not that long ago when we were paying a 40% premium.... what a difference in the span of less than 10 years.


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## moonstone

DH went to the bank yesterday to get $200 US and after the exchange (and fees?) it cost $196 Cndn. I hope our prices on everything from food to books to cars to RCI fees... soon come down to match those south of the border. A guy on the news yesterday said he wouldnt be surprized to see our dollar go to $1.10 withing a year.  We are off to California on Sat. flying out of Buffalo (cuz its so much cheaper) and we'll be spending an extra 24hrs in Buffalo/Niagara Falls on our return to shop (food & Christmas presents). 
~Diane


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## Steamboat Bill

The full impact of this has not affected or is even discussed by 99.9999% of Americans. I personally think this is very bad news for the US, but that discussion will probably take this thread into a political no-no land.


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## bogey21

Steamboat Bill said:


> I personally think this is very bad news for the US



Great for tourism and Candadians shopping in the US.  I have  2 Canadian friends planning their first trips to Florida in years.  Cleaarly there are other ramifications I am not smart enough to understand like the impact from the higher cost of automobile components currently being manufactured in Canada for assembly in the US.  But like I said, it should be a boon for tourism and shopping in the US

GEORGE


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## Lizyyz

Steamboat Bill said:


> The full impact of this has not affected or is even discussed by 99.9999% of Americans. I personally think this is very bad news for the US, but that discussion will probably take this thread into a political no-no land.



You're right.  We had relatives from Queens, New York (retirees but not into TS yet, need to get them into one of the TS presentations) last week who, when their US$20 bill got changed into Can. $19.75 at Fallsview Casino, was really surprised at how high the Can$ value has gone up (so we had to explain...)  They obviously don't watch the currency exchange market.


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## Steamboat Bill

bogey21 said:


> But like I said, it should be a boon for tourism and shopping in the US



It may represent a small blip on the radar screen, but compared to the USA population, Canada tourists barely makes a dent.


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## johnmfaeth

Hi Steamboat,

But when you add in increased tourism from Europe, et al, that is a good thing. I consider it a small silver lining on a big dark cloud.

I agree with you that this is terrible for the US. Amazing that the news is focused on trivial issues most of the time when this is a major structural problem with no long term change in sight.

John

PS. My predictions for 2012...

The $1CDN at $1.50 US
The Pound at $3.00 US
The Euro at $2.00 US
Prime Rate at 10% in the US to attract foreign capital to buy Treasury Debt.


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## Bill4728

I agree these exchange rates may continue to rise. That is why, when I travel, I have not been converting any of money I get back to US dollars.


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## ricoba

Steamboat Bill said:


> The full impact of this has not affected or is even discussed by 99.9999% of Americans. I personally think this is very bad news for the US, but that discussion will probably take this thread into a political no-no land.



I finally heard this discussed on the radio this AM.  

You are correct most of our population has NO idea about this issue.  In my opinion this is an extremely serious problem for the US.

I agree that the Canadian economy is very strong and that the Canadian resource industry and government policy has led to a strengthen of the CAD$.

But as I have pointed out here on TUG a few times, it's not the issue of a strong CAD$, it's the issue of a collapsing US$.  If it was simply an issue of a strong CAD$, then why does the Philippine Peso trade higher today then it has previously?  Again, it's the issue of the loss of strength and confidence in the US $ and the US economy.

There are a number of factors in my opinion, such as the housing credit crunch and our huge trade deficit as well as political issues (that I think should be avoided in this conversation). 

I believe that for too long our economy has been led by the consumer instead of by manufacturing and resources and exports.  It just seems to me that we are beginning to pay the price for out of control spending on borrowed dollars.


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## ricoba

bogey21 said:


> But like I said, it should be a boon for tourism and shopping in the US
> 
> GEORGE




The inverse of this is that this is a bad thing for Canadian retailers, Canadian exports, Canadian tourism and Canadian taxation.


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## Steamboat Bill

ricoba said:


> I believe that for too long our economy has been led by the consumer instead of by manufacturing and resources and exports.  It just seems to me that we are beginning to pay the price for out of control spending on borrowed dollars.



Yes, I agree. Let's not forget about outsourcing US jobs and importing non-documented workers to do labor. New York is about to give drives licenses to illegals...now they will start to devalue jobs that are dependent on driving like limo drivers, taxi drivers, bus drivers, trucks, etc. just like the landscape and meat packing industries.


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## KarenLK

Lizyyz, I got 18 dollars and change Sunday night for my 20 dollar bill. I just stared at it in disbelief!


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## Lizyyz

KarenLK said:


> Lizyyz, I got 18 dollars and change Sunday night for my 20 dollar bill. I just stared at it in disbelief!



Today, the U.S. Fed govt is deciding on interest rate.  We'll see what happens to the Can. $ tomorrow.


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## ricoba

Lizyyz said:


> Today, the U.S. Fed govt is deciding on interest rate.  We'll see what happens to the Can. $ tomorrow.



The fed drop was 1/4 of a point.  The US $ will continue to slide which means the CAD$ and all other major currencies will continue to rise.  

This cut was to try and fix our domestic problems.  To strengthen the US$ we need to see a rate increase to attract buyers of US Treasury Bills.


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## Kola

Lizyyz said:


> Today, the U.S. Fed govt is deciding on interest rate.  We'll see what happens to the Can. $ tomorrow.



Why wait till tomorrow ? Take a look at the CBC website and you will know today !

Here is a quote as of 4:10 pm: " At the close of trading, the loonie was up 0.93 of a cent to $1.0585 US and traded as high as $1.0593 US. The Canadian dollar has not been that high since Aug. 21, 1957, according to Bank of Canada data. That's the same day the loonie reached its post-war high of $1.0614 US."

Don't convert ALL your savings into the Canadian loonie, at least not yet !  

K


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## AKE

So think how we felt, when for many years, we got 60 or 70 cents back (US) on a Canadian dollar when we vacationed in the states... never mind all the sarcastic comments about our 'funny money' or when U.S. cashiers took great trouble to give us back a Canadian penny and told us, that in no uncertain terms, were they accepting this kind of money in the states... now the tables turned!


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## ricoba

AKE said:


> So think how we felt, when for many years, we got 60 or 70 cents back (US) on a Canadian dollar when we vacationed in the states... never mind all the sarcastic comments about our 'funny money' or when U.S. cashiers took great trouble to give us back a Canadian penny and told us, that in no uncertain terms, were they accepting this kind of money in the states... now the tables turned!



As an American who lived in Canada for over a decade and who is married to a Canadian with two children born in Canada, I know the frustration you felt with the high US $ vs the CAD $, especially since we still had US bills to pay.

But having said that I think your comment is unnecessary and a bit petty.  This has nothing to do with feelings, this has to do with facts and current realities.  It's not a us verses them thing.


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## BevL

Let's keep it nice, okay, folks?  This thread has wandered somewhat close to the political line and seems to be getting a bit heated - especially for this board where I've never had to moderate anything other than an occasional accidental ad.

I'm heading to NYC Friday and appreciate everybody's help in getting me in holiday mode early.

Bev


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## AKE

This is reality as to how the canadian dollar was treated for so long.  More often than not it was downright embarrassing when I was in a lineup at a cash register and the cashier took great pains to separate one or two pennies (which I had somehow inadvertently missed) from the change and state in a loud voice that Canadian change was not allowed (including when paying toll to cross the border in a car) ! I hope that it will never happen here but there are two sides to everything. What was similarly frustrating was being told, by timeshare developers (including some name brand 4* developers) that they didn't 'tour Canadians' because of our low dollar and then snickering about it. This was before I knew about resales and was actively looking at purchasing a 2nd week.


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## Steamboat Bill

AKE said:


> never mind all the sarcastic comments about our 'funny money'



I actually think the Canadian currency notes are far superior to the US notes. Canadia has brail, better colors, holograms, better pictures and they are now worth more than USD. Besides, Canada uses coins (not paper) for dollars and two dollars...very green!


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## Kola

Steamboat Bill said:


> Besides, Canada uses coins (not paper) for dollars and two dollars...very green!



Good point. 
As we all know, the Egyptians, the Greeks, the Romans and other civilizations knew how to stamp silver, gold, bronze coins.... you name it. Unlike their more recent paper counterparts, these coins lasted not hundreds, but thousands of years. Indeed each generation on the planet earth found that the true value of such coins continued to rise. Just visit some reputable museums on your next trip to Europe, or China, or Egypt, etc !

 Do you really expect anyone to collect and preserve that paper stuff we call dollars around, say, the year 2907 ?    

K.


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## KarenLK

Since I live on the border with Canada, I often have Canadian pennies mixed in with my US coins. I remember years back going to the Statue of Liberty and the clerk there nearly threw them at me in an accusatory way, as if I were trying to rip her off. 
It will be interesting to see how things go on this side in the next few weeks and months regarding coins. Canadian nickels, dimes and quarters were not acceptable. Maybe they will be now...


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## Aldo

*Canadian dollar going up*

[_Message deleted. Political posts are not permitted on these forums. Please follow the rules._ Dave M, BBS Moderator]


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## pwrshift

Blip or not, Bill, I think a lot of people don't realize that Canada has about 1/10th the population of the USA.  For some companies, that could represent an unrealized 1/10th of their US sales right on their doorstep ... by dealing more aggressively with a market that can afford to buy and pay for the products.  Those US mfg companies will benefit even more because of a low US dollar ... just like Canada's exporters did when the reverse was true.

One of my companies publishes Canadian business magazines, and it's amazing how many US companies just 'assume' that Canadians get all the US magazines they advertise in ... which is not the case at all.  We have tons of testimonials from US advertisers who saw dramatic increases in sales as soon as they started advertising in Canadian media.  As a result, we're seeing a jump of almost 30% in US based advertising this year.   

Canada, for years, was the USA's No.1 trading partner and while that may have changed over recent years, due to considerably lower labour rates in BRIC countries, there is going to be a huge backlash based on toxic materials in food and toys from countries that don't have similar health standards to Canada and the USA.  Sometimes money isn't the only factor.  

Having said that, in other threads on the Cdn/US$ exchange rate, I said we'd see $1.10 before year end and may have to revise that upwards.

Canada is awash in natural resources that are the envy of the world and as they rise in price so does our economy.  However, partnered with the USA has always been like sleeping with an elephant - be careful when they roll over.  

Funny money or not, I heard today that a Chrysler 300 is now $1000 less than in the USA ... and Canadian book sellers are lowering the 'Canadian prices' printed on the backs of their books as Amazon.com has been taking all their biz away.  Times are a-changing, good or bad.

Brian



Steamboat Bill said:


> It may represent a small blip on the radar screen, but compared to the USA population, Canada tourists barely makes a dent.


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## Kola

*It's now $1.07 US per Cdn. $  !!!*

Brian is 100% right. Times are changing and so are exchange rates. Just look at the latest as of 5pm Friday:

Cdn - 107.04 cents US, up 1.92 cents 
Pound Sterling - C$1.9515, down 2.69 cents 
Euro - C$1.3557, up 1.78 cents 
Euro - US$1.4512, up 0.74 of a cent 

K.


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## vivalour

<< there is going to be a huge backlash based on toxic materials in food and toys from countries that don't have similar health standards to Canada and the USA. Sometimes money isn't the only factor.>>

If you are talking about Chinese goods, I doubt it. Govts will have to test for quality on every imported item and they are not prepared to do this because of cost. The vast majority of North American consumers don't know -- or care --where their goods some from -- as long as they are cheap. 
China is the elephant in the room and is gradually calling the shots. They have set up state enterprises to buy stockpiles of every major commodity (coal, oil, iron ore, etc.). Just wait till they start mass-producing cars.... But better keep off this political stuff, huh? Can be dangerous for our health!


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## John Cummings

pwrshift said:


> Funny money or not, I heard today that a Chrysler 300 is now $1000 less than in the USA ... and Canadian book sellers are lowering the 'Canadian prices' printed on the backs of their books as Amazon.com has been taking all their biz away.  Times are a-changing, good or bad.
> 
> Brian



I don't know where you got the info on the Chrysler 300 but it is incorrect. The Chrysler 300C costs $9000 more in Canada before the exchange which would make it $9630 more expensive in Canada. The difference is similar for the other models.

This is direct from the Chrysler Canada and US web sites below:

http://dcci-config.autodatadirect.c...en/|utmcmd=referral&__utmv=-&__utmk=221336345

http://www-5.chrysler.com/vehsuite/dispatch.do

Click on the Chrysler 300 on the US web site to get a list of the US prices.

This also doesn't take into account the difference in destination charges which are another $1000 higher in Canada.


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## MoeDan2727

Steamboat Bill said:


> Yes, I agree. Let's not forget about outsourcing US jobs and importing non-documented workers to do labor. New York is about to give drives licenses to illegals...now they will start to devalue jobs that are dependent on driving like limo drivers, taxi drivers, bus drivers, trucks, etc. just like the landscape and meat packing industries.



Let's not forget that the U.S, Ctiizen is the most undertaxed citizen in the world.  The U.S. is the only civilzed country without a a VAT.  The federal government is not collecting one cent from any sales made except for income tax.  Thus the 9 Trillion dollar deficit and the weekening U.S dollar.

Dan


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## John Cummings

MoeDan2727 said:


> Let's not forget that the U.S, Ctiizen is the most undertaxed citizen in the world.  The U.S. is the only civilzed country without a a VAT.  The federal government is not collecting one cent from any sales made except for income tax.  Thus the 9 Trillion dollar deficit and the weekening U.S dollar.
> 
> Dan



Just to clear up a point. The deficit is NOT 9 Trillion dollars. That is the national debt which is a different thing altogether. The deficit for this year is running around 150-250 billion.

The Canadian National debt is 600 Billion which is equivalent to 6 Trillion based on the population difference. It is actually a little higher based on GDP but it is still better than in the US and is going down rather than up.


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## X-ring

AKE said:


> when U.S. cashiers took great trouble to give us back a Canadian penny and told us, that in no uncertain terms, were they accepting this kind of money in the states...



Brings back a fond memory of driving thru lower Manhattan in October 1987 - Black Friday as I recall, though I didn't kno w much about the stock market at the time.

Having stopped at a traffic light, a squeegee person walked up and provided an unsolicited service and I handed him some coins. He immediately returned a Canadian quarter back to me saying "Tell you what, I can't use this one".


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## johnmfaeth

The budget deficit for 2007 is estimated at $177 Billion. That's a mere $750 per American. The TRADE deficit of $400-$500 billion is a much bigger issue in determining currency strength and interest rates.

And that's only about $2,000 for each American, infant to senior citizen.


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## ricoba

Here's an interesting article from Bloomberg today about the ever shrinking US$.


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## Kola

Please, this is NOT a political post. It's a statement of fact. On Monday the Canadian dollar reached $1.0746 US — the highest level since the C$ was allowed to float in 1950. Our Canadian shoppers are enjoying a bonanza unheard of in over 50 years ! 

K.


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## pwrshift

John ... you might find this article interesting and more explanatory than my post. List prices didn't change in Canada - the incentives did, to the point that the 300C is now less in Canada than the US. Also see comment on the destination charges which were much lower than your post.

http://www.thestar.com/article/272502

_"Automakers said privately in recent weeks they feared that consumers would begin to stay on the sidelines and not shop until prices came down._
_In addition to huge incentives for cash buyers and lower financing charges, consumers will have the choice of a $1,250 rebate or Chrysler will make three monthly financing or lease payments of $500._
_Among the incentives, the company is increasing the rebate for the 2007 Chrysler 300C by $4,250; financing amounts will drop by $65 a month and the lease rate by $130 a month._
_*The total cash incentive on the company's 300C flagship model will now be a stunning $9,250*."_



John Cummings said:


> I don't know where you got the info on the Chrysler 300 but it is incorrect. The Chrysler 300C costs $9000 more in Canada before the exchange which would make it $9630 more expensive in Canada. The difference is similar for the other models.
> 
> 
> This also doesn't take into account the difference in destination charges which are another $1000 higher in Canada.


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## John Cummings

pwrshift said:


> John ... you might find this article interesting and more explanatory than my post. List prices didn't change in Canada - the incentives did, to the point that the 300C is now less in Canada than the US. Also see comment on the destination charges which were much lower than your post.
> 
> http://www.thestar.com/article/272502
> 
> _"Automakers said privately in recent weeks they feared that consumers would begin to stay on the sidelines and not shop until prices came down._
> _In addition to huge incentives for cash buyers and lower financing charges, consumers will have the choice of a $1,250 rebate or Chrysler will make three monthly financing or lease payments of $500._
> _Among the incentives, the company is increasing the rebate for the 2007 Chrysler 300C by $4,250; financing amounts will drop by $65 a month and the lease rate by $130 a month._
> _*The total cash incentive on the company's 300C flagship model will now be a stunning $9,250*."_



You are making the assumption that the incentives only apply to Canada which is not true. There are also incentives by Chrysler US which still lowers the US price below that in Canada. Whoever wrote the article is making some incorrect assumptions. The incentives are being offered on both sides of the border because auto sales are not great. I realize that there are additional incentives being offered in Canada but Chrysler Canada is not being honest in that they are ignoring the fact Chrysler US is also offering incentives. Do the math.

Chrysler Canada's incentive for the 300C still falls short of the difference in MSRP and then when you take the Chrysler US incentive into account, the Canadian price is still considerably higher. We do not pay anywhere near MSRP. My last Honda Accord EX-L that I bought new was below the invoice price and that was shortly after the model came out.

Below is a link to the incentives being offered by Chrysler US for 2007 and 2008 Chrysler 300 models.

http://www.chryslerfinancial.com/incentives/incentives2.jsp

There are additional rebates being offered that are not shown here but are advertised on our local TV.


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## Kola

*Up and UP and UP.....*

Media report that today, Tuesday, the Cdn. $ opened at 108.17 cents US, up almost a cent from Monday's record high. Some people are obviously making quick profits, others are just speculating. 
Are you ready to bet on 125.00 cents US per Cdn. loonie by the New Year ?

K.


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## AKE

As of now its 1.00 CAD = 1.09612 USD and still climbing ... crazy is the only way to describe this...guess its time to go shopping!


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## John Cummings

It can go down about as fast as it went up so I would take advantage of it now if I were you. The recent surge is being driven by the surge in oil prices.


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## Aldo

Well, I'm off soon to Quebec for the 3rd time this year.

Previously, I used to do a lot of shopping, eat out a LOT.

Not this time.  Sure, I'll stop in for smoked meat sandwiches at Schwartz's, and get some good bread and cheese at the Jean Talon, but for the most part I'll bring food from home and cook in the room.  And NO shopping...well, plenty of window shopping but no purchases.

Just can't do it.


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## John Cummings

Below is a link to an article about the surge in the Loonie.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/cpress/20071107/ca_pr_on_na/soaring_loonie;_ylt=Al4yH3ft0lhEH4EE9TKNJDgE1vAI


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## Kola

*Up and UP and UPUPUP !*

To watch a video commentary on the rise of the Cdn dollar courtesy of the Toronto Star go here:

http://www.thestar.com/fpLarge/video/273038

K


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## ricoba

Kola said:


> To watch a video commentary on the rise of the Cdn dollar courtesy of the Toronto Star go here:
> 
> http://www.thestar.com/fpLarge/video/273038
> 
> K



That's a good video that's well balanced.  As stated in the video, what may be good for the consumer is not necessarily good for all Canadian industry/businesses.

The last fellow was spot on about the problem.  While the Cdn$ is strong, it's really a problem of the US$ collapsing.  This in my view is not good in the long term for either the US or Canada.


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## AKE

Yes a lot of the upswing in the Canadian $ is due to the decrease in the US $ because when you look at European currency, then the Canadian $ is up but only a fraction compared to what is happening between the Cdn $ and the US $. The freefall of the Cdn dollar wasn't that long ago and it dropped very quickly very fast before it began the long upward climb.


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## ricoba

Here are three excellent articles from todays Financial Post.

Down but not out yet.

Loonie's flight worries bank

Loonie's rapid ascent may attract quick cash: strategist.


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## John Cummings

I watch the business news every day on both CNBC and Bloomberg. I particularly like Larry Kudlow's show at 4:00 pm PST. Much of the talk is about the weakness in the US dollar. They do not discuss the rise in the Canadian dollar. They have panel of financial experts discussing this and other business issues. The interesting thing is that the majority of the panelists feel that the weakness in the US dollar is actually a good thing at this time. Exports are soaring and inflation is still low. The only people being hurt are US tourists visiting foreign countries. On the other hand it is a big boon to the US tourism industry.

However they do recognize that the US dollar will cause problems if it continues to fall for much longer. Many of them believe that it will stabilize in the near future.

There are not my opinions so don't bash me if you don't agree. I am just the messenger. I thought some may find it interesting what Wall Street and many economists are thinking.


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## Kola

*What goes up, must come down !*

Well, well, it didn't last very long before Cdn dollar has slipped back into reverse gear. Today it dropped 2.98 cents US to $1.0309 US in foreign exchange trading.
 That's a drop of more than 7 cents from its high of $1.1030 US reached on Nov. 7. 
 OK, anybody ready to bet on the exchange rate on Dec. 31, 2007  ??? 

K.


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## BevL

Not a clue but I'm getting some US $$ for our trip to Hawaii in February.  Hey, anything over 90 or 95 cents is a gift for travelling - we were heading stateside when it was $1.40 to buy a US dollar.


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## KarenLK

Today in the Buffalo area it was like the day after Thanksgiving...but with Canadian shoppers. An article in the paper yesterday talked about the Galleria Mall in Cheektowaga hiring extra cleaners to deal with the boxes and bags that are being left behind.


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## hvsteve1

I vacation in Canada once or twice a year. This will probably be tough on tourism as, not only is everything in Canada *much* more expensive, but the government, in an epic example of bad timing, also did away with refunding that onerous sales tax to foreign visitors. Thus, anything in Canada costs, not only 50 to 60% more, but 14% on top of that. I won't stop coming, but this will sure have an effect on how often and for how long. Cetainly no more stays ot Fairmont or Rodd hotels.


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## Kola

hvsteve1 said:


> Thus, anything in Canada costs, not only 50 to 60% more, but 14% on top of that. I won't stop coming, but this will sure have an effect on how often and for how long. Cetainly no more stays ot Fairmont or Rodd hotels.



Well, I don't know how many people would share the view that "anything in Canada costs, not only 50 to 60% more, but 14% on top of that".  Just wonder what is included in this "everything" ? Hotels, meals, gas, movies...? Indeed, up until the most recent surge of the Can. $ and the decline of the US $ relative to most currencies, most vacation expenses in Canada were a bargain if paid in US funds. Just one small example: I have often wondered how cheap imported fruits ( e.g. bananas, oranges, etc. ) are priced in Canadian supermarkets relative to prices in US grocery chains. One could buy them cheaper in Ontario than in Florida ! And if you compared WallMart US prices for most of their made-in China items vs WallMart Canada prices in Cdn$ ( at exchange rates prevailing anytime over the first 6 months of 2007) there were no bargains to be had. 
Its far too early to say how most consumer prices will be adjusted by major importers/distributors/retailers on both sides of the border after the US $ has regained stability. Let's not rush to judgement.

K


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## Steamboat Bill

I loved traveling in Canada in 2003-2005 when the USD was strong...I still love Canada, but the bargains are gone.


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## hvsteve1

What I mean by "costs more" is not more than in the US, but more than we are used to paying in Canada. While the cost of things is not out of sight, we cannot do as much or live as well when we go there. Also, that sales tax does become an issue when things cost slightly more than in the States plus 14%. In the northeast, you're looking at sales taxes more like 6-8 percent with no sales tax on certain clothing purchases, etc.


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## ricoba

I believe that you may be happy to know that the government dropped the GST(which is the federal part of the sales tax) by a point (isn't that right to you who live in Canada)


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## dboy1

The GST which is the federal part of the sales used to be 7% but droppede to 6% about a year ago. It is supposed to be dropping to 5% on Jan.1/08.The rest of the sales tax is provincial and can be an extra 7% or as low as 0%--there is no provincial sales tax in Alberta so that after Jan1/08 the total tax in Alberta will be 5%.


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## ricoba

dboy1 said:


> The GST which is the federal part of the sales used to be 7% but droppede to 6% about a year ago. It is supposed to be dropping to 5% on Jan.1/08.The rest of the sales tax is provincial and can be an extra 7% or as low as 0%--there is no provincial sales tax in Alberta so that after Jan1/08 the total tax in Alberta will be 5%.



Your poor cousins in other provinces pay through the nose though, eh! 

When I lived in BC it was when the GST was introduced and it was 7%, I was not aware that it had dropped to 6% and now will go to 5%.  That's a nice benefit of a good strong Canadian economy. 

So which province has the highest PST?


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## dboy1

Not really sure anymore but I think that Quebec PST is pretty high-maybe 9% Saskatchewan used to be 9% but is now down to 7% I think.


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## John Cummings

We spent 2 weeks in Calgary and the national parks in August 2005. At that time prices were generally considerably higher in Canada after adjusting for the exchange rate. We found just about everything was higher including groceries, restaurant meals, hotel accommodations, clothing, electronics, etc. Yes, some items were as much as 50% higher even after taking the exchange into account which was about 0.85 at the time.

We spent a another couple of weeks in August 2007 in Vancouver, Victoria, etc. and found even a much greater difference than in 2005.


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## Kola

John Cummings said:


> We spent another couple of weeks in August 2007 in Vancouver, Victoria, etc. and found even a much greater difference than in 2005.



Without specific information about locations visited and accomodation used it is impossible to make a meaningfull comment. That said, living costs in Victoria, BC would always be higher because of the island location. Its like comparing living costs in LA and, say, in Honolulu. 

IMO, its more important to note that it takes time for the economy to adjust to changing currency values. The US importers will clearly pay more for all sorts of produts sourced abroad starting with crude oil and ending with made--in-China childrens' toys or made-in-India clothing. 
Comparing the long term US dollar value one basic fact cannot be ignored which is that against the European currencies the US $ is now worth about a third of what it was worth back in the early 1970s when the fixed exchange of dollars for gold was abandoned. Over the past decades huge quantities of the US $ have been moved abroad to finance growing US trade deficits and a national debt which stands at well over US $9 trillion. Over time this trend has caused countries with large US $ reserves to gradually shift away from the US$ and into the Euro. Should this trend accellerate, it will continue to exert downward pressure on the value of the US dollar.

K


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## John Cummings

Kola said:


> Without specific information about locations visited and accomodation used it is impossible to make a meaningfull comment. That said, living costs in Victoria, BC would always be higher because of the island location. Its like comparing living costs in LA and, say, in Honolulu.



I also said Vancouver and Calgary which were just as expensive as Victoria. I don't want to get into an argument about it because it really doesn't matter to me. I don't have to live there so whatever the prices are doesn't make any difference to me. I simply am reporting our observations. People can take them or leave them. I can give you a couple of explicit examples if you wish. We stayed at the Fairmont Waterfront Hotel in Vancouver. The cost was $452.00 /nt. A few nights later we stayed at the Grand Hyatt in Seattle which is more luxurious and the price was $273. /nt. This difference was pretty consistent percentage wise for everywhere we stayed. My wife bought film for her Camera at Walmart. The price in Canada for 3 rolls was the same as she pays here for 4 rolls. My Canon S2 IS digital camera cost $699 in Canada at WalMart in Calgary and was the same price at London Drugs. I paid $350.00 for it in the US 2 weeks before I went to Calgary. Supermarket prices for food was considerable higher for almost everything. I am not going to get into specific restaurants other than to say that prices in Canada ranged from 10-60% higher than comparable restaurants here. There are a couple of exceptions. Hy's Steakhouse in Vancouver was comparably priced to here but that is a rare exception.

There is a very good reason why Canadian shoppers are flocking to Buffalo, NY. etc. I will be going to Toronto on our way to Niagara Falls next summer so I will see what it is like there. I spent a lot of time in Toronto but that was 30 years ago.


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## pwrshift

John Cummings said:


> ...I will be going to Toronto on our way to Niagara Falls next summer so I will see what it is like there. I spent a lot of time in Toronto but that was 30 years ago.


 
John ... while you are there you might want to buy a condo.  

*Here's a link to another thread with prices*.  Unfortunately most of them are selling out before you can even get an offer in ... because the world 'condo' market says Toronto is a good buy right now.  

Last week people were lined up for a week or more waiting for the sales door to open at *1 Bloor* condos and just before opening the doors, the developer decided to increase all prices including the penthouses (from $2 mill to $6 mill) and those waiting in line all that time were very upset.

http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=58415

Brian

Here's the whole article, and it says Vancouver is even higher than Toronto!

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/LAC.20071103.CAPITAL03/TPStory/?query=real+estate


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## John Cummings

I think I will pass on buying a condo. We have no interest in moving to Canada or anywhere for that matter. We are very happy where we are. When we did the tour in Vancouver, the tour guide told us some of the prices for Condos and they were very expensive. If I wanted to buy a condo in a city, I would buy one here in downtown San Diego.

Here is a link to Condos in downtown San Diego for Sale.

http://www.downtown-sandiego.com/downtown-san-diego-condos.asp?move=<<&Intpage=28

They range from the 200's to 12.5 million ( 8,400+ sq. ft. )


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## AwayWeGo

*A Nickel For Your Thoughts.*




AKE said:


> U.S. cashiers took great trouble to give us back a Canadian penny and told us, that in no uncertain terms, were they accepting this kind of money in the states.


Canada has decided that Canadians can all do without any more pennies, so those coins are soon to be discontinued north of the border. 

Click here for the story. 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


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## MaryH

Yeah, we are following the Kiwis (New Zealand).  They got rid of the cent and 5 cent pieces.


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## AwayWeGo

*Farewell To USA 1¢ Coin ?*

Some people who have thought about it more than I have believe it's time to do away with USA pennies also. 

Click here for the story. 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


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## AwayWeGo

*Another Great idea So Simple & Practical It Will Never Be Adopted.*




AwayWeGo said:


> Some people who have thought about it more than I have believe it's time to do away with USA pennies also.
> 
> Click here for the story.


OK -- Canada has already decided to eliminate the penny from Canadian coinage.  Soon they'll have millions & millions of obsolete Canadian pennies on hand serving no purpose whatever.

Meanwhile, it costs the U.S. Mint well over 1¢ apiece to make USA pennies, & the Mint keep on stamping out millions & millions more of those, losing money in the process at a rapid clip. 

So the USA should legalize Canadian pennies for use south of the border, at the same time offering to buy all the Canadian pennies that have gone obsolete north of the border so they can be used south of the border.  

Paying Canada 1¢ per penny for its huge supply of obsolete brown coins featuring Elizabeth II on 1 side & the Canadian maple leaf on the other side is way cheaper than stamping out more USA pennies at cost of 1*.*7 cents each with Honest Abe on 1 side & something else on the flip side.

Shouldn't take much getting used to here in the U.S.  

Shux, Canadian pennies already mingle freely if informally in USA coinage as it is anyway, not in massive volume but frequently enough so that getting 1 in change in unremarkable.

So lets recycle all those Canadian pennies down here in the USA.  Save Uncle Sam major money while paying Canada a little something for truckloads of coins it already decided are no longer worth anything up north. 

Win + win.

Waste not, want not.

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


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## Dori

Sounds like a great plan to me, Alan! I have to admit I'll miss our pennies.

Dori


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## BigRedOne

I visited Canada a couple of times many years ago when the exchange rate was favorable to the US dollar.  The first few days in Canada I started accumulating change until I stopped at a road side vegetable stand.  The guy running the stand coached me on giving him just a couple of coins and at that point I realized how to handle Canadian money.  After that I preferred the coins to the paper US currency.  
A few years later I was elated to see the US make a push for Dollar coins but unfortunately no one wanted to use them.  Come on US citizens it's time we start embracing the coins and get rid of the paper dollar.  I think you will find that it is easier to handle a one and two dollar coin verses a dollar bill.   However, with the widespread use of debit cards (which we didn't have back then) I wonder if we even need to carry cash any more so this whole coin vs. paper thing may be becoming a moot point.  I must say, though, that I found it quit amusing that the Canadian people made so much fun of their monetary system and even more so with their tax system.


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## am1

Why does Canada not just stop producing pennies but still allow their use.  Allow american pennies as well.


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## gnorth16

For the most part, I pay with debit or credit and rarely have coins.  If I do pay cash and they round up to the nearest nickel, I might be out $1-$2 per year at most.  Most people don't even want to carry them around and leave it in the "leave a penny take a penny" jar at the till.

If we are talking coins, why doesn't the US have a $1 or $2 coin?  Toll booths would be smoother!


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## AwayWeGo

*Makes Too Much Sense.*




gnorth16 said:


> If we are talking coins, why doesn't the US have a $1 or $2 coin?


The U.S. needs both $1 & $2 coins & should quit printing paper $1 & $2 bills. 

From what I understand, no other major national economy has a piece of paper money in circulation worth as little as the USA $1 bill.  

In countries like Japan, Canada, Great Britain, Germany, France, etc., they say the cheapest piece of paper money in circulation is worth somewhere in the neighborhood of $5. 

No reason I can think of that the U.S. sticks with low-value paper money denominations instead of replacing the lowest of the low with nicely designed coins. 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


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## CarolF

AwayWeGo said:


> In countries like Japan, Canada, Great Britain, Germany, France, etc., they say the cheapest piece of paper money in circulation is worth somewhere in the neighborhood of $5.
> 
> -- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​



Add Australia to that list.  Our $1 coin is 28 years old, our $2 coin was issued in 1988.  $5 is our lowest denomination of paper money.


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## Hornet441

am1 said:


> Why does Canada not just stop producing pennies but still allow their use.  Allow american pennies as well.




That is exactly what is going to happen. Pennies will be in circulation for the forseeable future, just not being produced. What alot of people are suggesting is to donate all your pennies to your favorite charity. They can roll and wrap and cash them in. That way they get coins out of circ in as much bulk as possible and you do some good at the same time.


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## AwayWeGo

*Sold $43 In Canadian Folding Money For $49 On eBay.*

Until recently I had $43 in leftover Canadian 2-, 5-, & 10-dollar bills of a style that was still in use the last time we spent any time (& money) in Canada -- the 1980s. 

On a whim, I spread out the bills & photographed'm front & back & put'm on eBay, disavowing any knowledge of whether the money would still spend (because of its age). 

A guy in Ontario Province bid'm up to $49 US.  After eBay commission & PayPal fees, I cleared approximately $43 US. 

Waste not, want not. 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


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## Ironwood

Hope you haven't given away a $2 bill worth $20,000!  A rare few of the discontinued $2 have significant value to collectors.



http://www.torontosun.com/2012/09/26/rare-2-bill-expected-to-go-for-20000-at-auction


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## bogey21

A number of years ago I sold some stock in a Junior Canadian Gold Mining Company.  My account was with Greenline USA (ultimately flowed into TD Ameritrade).  My account was a dual currency account.  I forgot to convert the Cdn $$ into US $$ for a number of years.  In the interim the Cdn $ rose from 76 cents US to $1.02 US.  When i finally converted I made more than twice as much on the currency conversion as I did on the stock.  And it was tax free!!

George


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## Ironwood

During that same period I recall having made 20% on 3 or 4 US$ stock investments one year but gave it all back on sale and Cdn conversion as the Cdn $ rose by the same percentage during that year.  Can't loose sight of currency swings when investing in foreign markets.  Up here, I have increasingly used Cdn $ hedged ETF's such as BMO's ZQQ which trades on Toronto.....but glad I'm not holding that today!


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## AwayWeGo

*Wrinkly & Old & Torn & Scribbled On Paper Money -- Not Collector Quality.*



Ironwood said:


> Hope you haven't given away a $2 bill worth $20,000!  A rare few of the discontinued $2 have significant value to collectors.









The eBay photos pretty much tell the story.  

If the eBay buyer found an overlooked $20*,*000 gem in that bunch, more power to him. 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


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## Ironwood

Alan....I have no idea what old Canadian paper money many or may not be worth!  I just recalled having seen mention of the article on the value of a small number of discontinued $2 Cdn bills, I posted the day you mentioned you had sold them on eBay.  Maybe you should have hung on to them until early next year after the US tumbles off it's fiscal cliff....they might have had better exchange value!  I still have some central american currency in a drawer from a trip many years ago....maybe I should dig them out, post them on eBay and see what happens!


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## AwayWeGo

*eBay All The Way.*




Ironwood said:


> I still have some central american currency in a drawer from a trip many years ago....maybe I should dig them out, post them on eBay and see what happens!


Go for it -- will be fun, if nothing else. 

Meanwhile, I discovered in a cabinet drawer upstairs 2 old pieces of Italian paper money -- strange, because I've never gone to Italy.  

Maybe I'll photograph those & try selling'm on eBay, too. 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


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## AwayWeGo

*Used The Scanner Instead Of The Digital Camera.*



AwayWeGo said:


> I discovered in a cabinet drawer upstairs 2 old pieces of Italian paper money -- strange, because I've never gone to Italy.





-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


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## pwrshift

Haven't heard that the Canadian $5 bill is closing, but the Canadian penny is!  I've got a ton of them at home only because I'm too lazy to exchange them at the bank...which now charges a fee to count change.  I can remember my US friends years ago asking me to get them some $2 bills for their collections.

I have some really old $1 bills that must be worth something now...in the 'old' days (sixties) we used to use the serial numbers to play lunchtime BS Poker on the dollar bill. I have one with six 1's in the S/N and another with five 0's, with which I always won.  Fun.  Wonder what they might be worth.

Brian


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## GregGH

Hi

Fun to look at OLD thread that has been given new life ... from 2007 ... liking looking at a time tunnel ... darn ... if I knew then - that what i 'think I know' now.. 

Have enjoyed reading Currency Wars by James Rickards ( and watching him when I can on various feeds ) ... now to figure out  were the CDN Dollar will go next year .. I keep looking at 2008 and how the US $ 'popped' as everyone else  fled there ... then settled down ...

Hey - 5 years from now - someone dust this thread off and we can all see who is right.

Greg


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## talkamotta

Two  years ago when we went to Alberta and BC the Canadian and the US dollar were pretty equal.   I went to the grocery store in Canmore and the US produce was cheaper than the Canadian produce (which surprised me).  From what I could tell, the cost of living is higher in Cananda than in the US, if you compare it to where I live (Utah).  Alcohol was terribly high.  So even if the money was equal it still cost more to visit Canada.  

Now would I give up visiting Canada.  Not for one minute.    * I love your country and all the beauty  that it has to offer*. There are places that are so beautiful it will make you cry.  I appreciate the people and how friendly  and informative they were to us.  I went to the International Peace Gardens last year and it was a wonderfully peaceful place.  I hope that our borders are never closed.


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## BobDE

This would never work here, BECAUSE IT MAKES SENSE! :rofl:



AwayWeGo said:


> OK -- Canada has already decided to eliminate the penny from Canadian coinage.  Soon they'll have millions & millions of obsolete Canadian pennies on hand serving no purpose whatever.
> 
> Meanwhile, it costs the U.S. Mint well over 1¢ apiece to make USA pennies, & the Mint keep on stamping out millions & millions more of those, losing money in the process at a rapid clip.
> 
> So the USA should legalize Canadian pennies for use south of the border, at the same time offering to buy all the Canadian pennies that have gone obsolete north of the border so they can be used south of the border.
> 
> Paying Canada 1¢ per penny for its huge supply of obsolete brown coins featuring Elizabeth II on 1 side & the Canadian maple leaf on the other side is way cheaper than stamping out more USA pennies at cost of 1*.*7 cents each with Honest Abe on 1 side & something else on the flip side.
> 
> Shouldn't take much getting used to here in the U.S.
> 
> Shux, Canadian pennies already mingle freely if informally in USA coinage as it is anyway, not in massive volume but frequently enough so that getting 1 in change in unremarkable.
> 
> So lets recycle all those Canadian pennies down here in the USA.  Save Uncle Sam major money while paying Canada a little something for truckloads of coins it already decided are no longer worth anything up north.
> 
> Win + win.
> 
> Waste not, want not.
> 
> -- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


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## Ironwood

...because it makes sense!  Well it makes you wonder.  It's going to cost some $80 million to withdraw the penny to save $11 million per year.  There will be some recycling recovery to mitigate the cost....but it does beg the question, is this the right time to spend $80 million to save $11 per year.  And, you well know you can double any estimated cost figures put out by the Feds.


http://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=j...24D4BA&usg=AFQjCNHka_wEvI90_WDkg6GnVraUi8onaA


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## tdjanzen

Ironwood said:


> ...because it makes sense!  Well it makes you wonder.  It's going to cost some $80 million to withdraw the penny to save $11 million per year.  There will be some recycling recovery to mitigate the cost....but it does beg the question, is this the right time to spend $80 million to save $11 per year.  And, you well know you can double any estimated cost figures put out by the Feds.
> 
> 
> http://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=j...24D4BA&usg=AFQjCNHka_wEvI90_WDkg6GnVraUi8onaA



Upon reading the entire article, it is reported in a single line that the recovery of the pennies will yield around $45 million dollars.  Therefore, the net cost of eliminating the penny is about $38 million.  Therefore, in the next 48 months, Canada will save approximately $4 million and $11 million a year thereafter.

It is unfortunate that our press is so bent on embarrassing the government that they will post a misleading headline.


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## GregGH

try this link ....

http://www.coinflation.com/canada/

        1942 - 1977 Cent *	$0.01	>>>>........$0.025
	1978 - 1979 Cent **	$0.01>>>>........$0.025
	1980 - 1981 Cent **	$0.01	>>>..........$0.021
	1982 - 1996 Cent **	$0.01	>>>..........$0.019
	1997 - 1999 Cent	        $0.01>>>..........$0.0048

Google 'Kyle Bass  & Nickels' ...were USA 5cent piece is worth 7 cents ...

This year I had fun paying my golf debts to my buddies in a bunch of 1980's 50 cent pieces ... ahh ..if they were only silver ... it was funny to hear stories of staff at Tim Hortons who had never seen a Cdn 50 cent coin ... other buddies keep them.

Greg


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## samdav

Canadian are very secure with their money. Even with small amount they considering it important. Just like Canadian penny, it was eliminated in circulation to help the economy. Financial experts said that this will save money.


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## Bill4728

The Canadian dollar has over the last 6 months or so gone down about 10% against the US $ and both have gone down even more against the euro


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## talkamotta

In previous years when we have traveled to Canada or the bordering states there have always been Canadians buying cars in the US and grocery shopping.  Even when we went grocery shopping in the Safeway in Canmore the US produce was cheaper.  

Even further years back when the dollar was worth alot more, the prices in Canada across the board  was more than what I pay in Utah.  Maybe in other parts of the USA prices are more in line.   You dont even want to start me on the price of beer, alcohol or cigarettes and gasoline.   This summer we are going to the west coast of Canada.  Im sure we will be eating in the condo more, planning our driving trips better,  taking our beer and wine across the border and taking advantage of the duty free shops.  Im being more thrifty on *all* my vacations, these days.  

The bottom line for me is that I wont stop going to Canada any more than I will stop going to Hawaii.  Its the cost of vacations.  *Canada is such a beautiful country and I cant put a price on the places  I have visited.*  Thank you for letting me visit your country.


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## Tacoma

Talkamotta

Keep on coming we love having Americans spend time in our beautiful country.  The government does tax our alcohol and tobacco horrifically.  Last time we were in Idaho we paid less to buy the imported Kokanee beer in the US than we would in Canada.  With our dollar down again I will have to start scaling back on US holidays.  Like you I won't stop going but it may be for shorter durations or only for urban vacations not ski holidays since those will be cheaper in Canada.

Joan


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